From owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Mon Feb 5 10:17:32 2001 Received: from ns.secondary.com (ns.secondary.com [208.184.76.39]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id KAA08612 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 10:17:32 -0500 (EST) Received: by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA08847 for ietf-openpgp-bks; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 06:45:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.kiban.co.jp (ns1.kiban.co.jp [210.232.195.50]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA08841 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 06:45:48 -0800 (PST) From: b4h443@arabia.com Received: from ns.mobiletel.net [63.46.223.184] by mail.kiban.co.jp (SMTPD32-4.07) id ACD22552007A; Mon, 05 Feb 2001 23:50:42 +0900 Message-ID: <0000712d5714$00000ac0$00003444@kate.ccohs.ca> To: Subject: Brand New E-Mail pager for FR-EE! 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Message-ID: <20010205.143941.4799.0.joe.tag@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-9 From: "J. G. Tag,Jr." Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Hello. Forgive the question, I don't know whom else to ask. Is there anyone doing work to incorporate Rijndael into PGP, to replace Rijndael with TripleDES (DES-EDE) ??? Thanks. >>> Joe Tag ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Mon Feb 5 20:27:30 2001 Received: from ns.secondary.com (ns.secondary.com [208.184.76.39]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id UAA21683 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 20:27:30 -0500 (EST) Received: by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA11012 for ietf-openpgp-bks; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 17:01:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from natasha.sj.counterpane.com (natasha.sj.counterpane.com [63.196.29.130]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA11008 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 17:01:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from natasha.sj.counterpane.com (root@localhost) by natasha.sj.counterpane.com with ESMTP id RAA02440; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 17:08:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from [172.20.1.38] (eris.sj.counterpane.com [172.20.1.38]) by natasha.sj.counterpane.com with ESMTP id RAA02436; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 17:08:26 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: jon@63.73.97.162 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20010205.143941.4799.0.joe.tag@juno.com> References: <20010205.143941.4799.0.joe.tag@juno.com> Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 17:08:18 -0800 To: "J. G. Tag,Jr." , ietf-openpgp@imc.org From: Jon Callas Subject: Re: Rijndael in PGP??? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: At 2:39 PM -0500 2/5/01, J. G. Tag,Jr. wrote: >Hello. Forgive the question, I don't know >whom else to ask. > >Is there anyone doing work to incorporate Rijndael >into PGP, to replace Rijndael with TripleDES (DES-EDE) ??? > Yes, RFC 2440 already has specification in it for the AES, which is the same thing as Rijndael. Jon From owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Tue Feb 6 12:59:01 2001 Received: from ns.secondary.com (ns.secondary.com [208.184.76.39]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id MAA25399 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 12:59:00 -0500 (EST) Received: by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA21667 for ietf-openpgp-bks; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 09:23:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from mercury.rus.uni-stuttgart.de (mercury.rus.uni-stuttgart.de [129.69.1.226]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA21662 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 09:23:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from rusfw by mercury.rus.uni-stuttgart.de with local (Exim 3.12 #4) id 14QBow-0003ZU-00 for ietf-openpgp@imc.org; Tue, 06 Feb 2001 18:22:26 +0100 To: ietf-openpgp@imc.org Subject: Re: Rijndael in PGP??? References: <20010205.143941.4799.0.joe.tag@juno.com> From: Florian Weimer Date: 06 Feb 2001 18:22:26 +0100 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Lines: 14 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/20.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Jon Callas writes: > Yes, RFC 2440 already has specification in it for the AES, which is the > same thing as Rijndael. At the moment, AES and Rijndael are different things. Of course, it's unlikely that AES will become an entirely different algorithm, but AFAIK, the official AES specification has not yet been released (so changes in detail are still possible). -- Florian Weimer Florian.Weimer@RUS.Uni-Stuttgart.DE University of Stuttgart http://cert.uni-stuttgart.de/ RUS-CERT +49-711-685-5973/fax +49-711-685-5898 From owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Tue Feb 6 21:46:44 2001 Received: from ns.secondary.com (ns.secondary.com [208.184.76.39]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id VAA08072 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 21:46:43 -0500 (EST) Received: by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA18798 for ietf-openpgp-bks; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 18:19:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from m11.jersey.juno.com (m11.jersey.juno.com [64.136.16.74]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA18794 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 18:19:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"xS5dSbQuAOKnbKF9wbUrHBb/BqBlfkfaV0Id376Y2vSZuURxz8r/Sg=="> Received: (from joe.tag@juno.com) by m11.jersey.juno.com (queuemail) id FVM2J4F2; Tue, 06 Feb 2001 21:25:40 EST To: Florian.Weimer@RUS.Uni-Stuttgart.DE Cc: ietf-openpgp@imc.org Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 16:05:51 EST Subject: Re: Rijndael in PGP??? Message-ID: <20010206.161356.4799.0.joe.tag@juno.com> References: <20010205.143941.4799.0.joe.tag@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-17,19-36 From: "J. G. Tag,Jr." Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: === Feb. 6, 2001; 21:17 EST === Hello. I am interested in the subject, because I believe that both CAST-256 and Rijndael support 128 bit Plaintext/Ciphertext I/O, and because CAST was already incorporated into PGP 5.0+. I am on "the learning curve" and I apprecciate your assistance. Is there a "real development" effort being done to incorporate Rijndael into PGP? Let me know, please. It's a project I may want to work on locally, in New Jersey, USA. Best regards. Joe Tag,Jr. ----- reply separator ----- On 06 Feb 2001 18:22:26 +0100 Florian Weimer writes: >Jon Callas writes: > >> Yes, RFC 2440 already has specification in it for the AES, which is >the >> same thing as Rijndael. > >At the moment, AES and Rijndael are different things. Of course, it's >unlikely that AES will become an entirely different algorithm, but >AFAIK, the official AES specification has not yet been released (so >changes in detail are still possible). > >-- >Florian Weimer >Florian.Weimer@RUS.Uni-Stuttgart.DE >University of Stuttgart http://cert.uni-stuttgart.de/ >RUS-CERT +49-711-685-5973/fax >+49-711-685-5898 ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Tue Feb 6 22:11:05 2001 Received: from ns.secondary.com (ns.secondary.com [208.184.76.39]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id WAA08715 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 22:11:04 -0500 (EST) Received: by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA19437 for ietf-openpgp-bks; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 18:52:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from finney.org (226-132.adsl2.netlojix.net [207.71.226.132]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA19432 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 18:52:21 -0800 (PST) From: hal@finney.org Received: (from hal@localhost) by finney.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA27032; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 18:58:26 -0800 Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 18:58:26 -0800 Message-Id: <200102070258.SAA27032@finney.org> To: Florian.Weimer@RUS.Uni-Stuttgart.DE, joe.tag@juno.com Subject: Re: Rijndael in PGP??? Cc: ietf-openpgp@imc.org Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Yes, both the commercial version, PGP 7 from Network Associates, and the free GPG (GNU Privacy Guard) already incorporate Rijndael. Hal Finney > Hello. I am interested in the subject, because > I believe that both CAST-256 and Rijndael support > 128 bit Plaintext/Ciphertext I/O, and > because CAST was already incorporated into PGP 5.0+. > I am on "the learning curve" and I apprecciate your > assistance. Is there a "real development" effort > being done to incorporate Rijndael into PGP? > Let me know, please. It's a project I may want > to work on locally, in New Jersey, USA. From owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Wed Feb 7 01:38:05 2001 Received: from ns.secondary.com (ns.secondary.com [208.184.76.39]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id BAA15269 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 01:38:05 -0500 (EST) Received: by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA22717 for ietf-openpgp-bks; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 22:14:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtprelay3.adelphia.net (smtprelay3.adelphia.net [64.8.25.8]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA22713 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 22:14:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from mwyoung ([24.48.233.14]) by smtprelay3.adelphia.net (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with SMTP id G8DHK200.FXU; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 00:50:26 -0500 Message-ID: <004201c090ca$06938aa0$c23fa8c0@transarc.ibm.com> From: "Michael Young" To: Cc: Subject: Limited utility of master/subkey Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 00:51:32 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Does PGP7 or GnuPG provide the ability to use a separate passphrase for the master key and its subkeys? I'd like to use my master key rarely, for key-signing only, and protect it with a passphrase that I almost never use. I'd then use (limited-lifetime) subkeys for everyday decryption. Ideally, I'd be able to make a subkey for everyday signing of messages. The OpenPGP specification would appear to allow this, but I don't see any commands for doing so in the implementations. As an experiment, I generated such a master/subkey set and imported it into PGP 6.5.3. I found that it couldn't decrypt material encrypted to the encryption subkey. I then tried the passphrase-changing dialog, and it (quite reasonably) complained about "the" passphrase being incorrect, but it did change the master's passphrase. Even though I had changed the passphrases to match, I was unable decrypt until I went through the passphrase-changing dialog yet again. So, unless I'm missing something, it doesn't look like this is possible. I also see no way to generate a signing subkey. Yes, I can create a completely separate key-signing key, but this gives up the values of the master/subkey (notably, being able to accumulate signatures on master/userId relationships that automatically apply to all subkeys). The very limited coupling available in the implementations just doesn't buy very much. Any thoughts? -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP Personal Privacy 6.5.3 iQEVAwUBOoDiPGNDnIII+QUHAQFlvwf9EJHKflFzMzzKjEbh+K1raI5SdDYbVgXX wDYxr3U6KxvDADXcsKVuKBqcaZoLBJe0zYipBcskdE9PQ1ApOrCnOSfF4UZCE7SZ HvrQf54BQKcLYrWyrgF2eR5HJCCGold6ppDx0vlTMnJt73nfpA85+9inHDe6Ovx9 EmNo05+Tmy0E8UEA9w9BkA5fpovtxnY+GTi7O94CvxO9VRy6/5uiE24cX8Sp5Fof +7ouBuMVUj4IIRgmvosGL5hpv3J4HethG6H6mTjWFZ7DtOFPGf42tbwrYIcJ8rzk vNSM/0TpaihfSJN1XS9V1A1KkCMB8eEkfLs6HlB+ebHUvXuGcMAEtA== =DmBj -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Wed Feb 7 09:25:03 2001 Received: from ns.secondary.com (ns.secondary.com [208.184.76.39]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id JAA00044 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 09:25:03 -0500 (EST) Received: by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA09526 for ietf-openpgp-bks; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 05:43:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from kasiski.gnupg.de (porta.u64.de [194.77.88.106]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA09521 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 05:43:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from (alberti.gnupg.de) [192.168.123.3] by kasiski.gnupg.de with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1 (Debian)) id 14QVAo-0005Oa-00; Wed, 07 Feb 2001 15:02:18 +0100 Received: from wk by alberti.gnupg.de with local (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 14QV2q-0006fq-00; Wed, 07 Feb 2001 14:54:04 +0100 Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 14:54:04 +0100 From: Werner Koch To: ietf-openpgp@imc.org Subject: Re: Limited utility of master/subkey Message-ID: <20010207145404.G25510@alberti.gnupg.de> Mail-Followup-To: ietf-openpgp@imc.org References: <004201c090ca$06938aa0$c23fa8c0@transarc.ibm.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <004201c090ca$06938aa0$c23fa8c0@transarc.ibm.com>; from mwy-pgpu89@the-youngs.org on Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 12:51:32AM -0500 X-PGP-KeyID: 621CC013 X-PGP-CertKey: A4D9 4E92 B098 6AB5 EE9D CD75 5DE2 4996 5B03 58A2 X-Request-PGP: finger:wk@porta.u64.de Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: On Wed, 7 Feb 2001, Michael Young wrote: > Does PGP7 or GnuPG provide the ability to use a separate > passphrase for the master key and its subkeys? I'd like to GnuPG in part. If the subkey's passphrase is different it will ask you for this passphrase. However, it is not possible to set a different passphrase for a subkey. There is a hack which allows you to create a secret key without a usable primary key: grep the FAQ for --export-secret-subkeys > is possible. I also see no way to generate a signing subkey. > Yes, I can create a completely separate key-signing key, You can do this with GnuPG, but there are probably some problems using this sign-only subkey: currently GnuPG favors the primary key for this. This will be changed soon. Ciao, Werner -- Werner Koch GNU Privacy Guard (http://www.gnupg.org) Free Software Foundation Europe (http://www.fsfeurope.org) [Please see X-* mail header for OpenPGP key info] From owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Wed Feb 7 20:42:55 2001 Received: from ns.secondary.com (ns.secondary.com [208.184.76.39]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id UAA13895 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 20:42:55 -0500 (EST) Received: by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA18168 for ietf-openpgp-bks; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 17:09:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from konan.nsict.org (clive@[193.133.200.135]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA18164 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 17:09:03 -0800 (PST) Received: (from clive@localhost) by konan.nsict.org (sendmail/nsict) id BAA01994; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 01:10:59 GMT Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 01:10:59 GMT Message-Id: <200102080110.BAA01994@konan.nsict.org> From: clive@nsict.org (Clive Jones) Organization: National Society for the Inversion of Cuddly Tigers To: pgp-users@cryptorights.org, ietf-openpgp@imc.org In-reply-to: "Michael Young"'s message of Wed, 7 Feb 2001 00:51:32 -0500 <004201c090ca$06938aa0$c23fa8c0@transarc.ibm.com> Subject: [PGP-USERS] Limited utility of master/subkey Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: "Michael Young" wrote: > Does PGP7 or GnuPG provide the ability to use a separate > passphrase for the master key and its subkeys? I'd like to > use my master key rarely, for key-signing only, and protect > it with a passphrase that I almost never use. I'd then use > (limited-lifetime) subkeys for everyday decryption. > Ideally, I'd be able to make a subkey for everyday signing > of messages. [...] > Any thoughts? I don't think what you're trying to do is a good idea. The basic premise is that you want to keep your key-signing key more secure than your everyday decryption and message-signing keys. You propose to do this by giving your key-signing key a different passphrase - presumably one that is more secure? You are naturally remembering passphrases rather than writing them down, since you care about security so much. Since you can remember the more secure passphrase, why not enjoy greater security by using that passphrase for everything, rather than using a weaker passphrase for the other parts? - It means there are two passphrases to crack not just one. Not true. Anyone who obtains your key-signing key and determines its passphrase gains the authority to replace your message-signing and decryption keys, which is almost as useful to them anyway. - It means that if your everyday passphrase is captured by a keyboard sniffer, your key-signing passphrase is still safe. True. On the other hand, you are still presumably going to use your key-signing passphrase on occasion, and your computer will be no more secure against sniffing when you do; anyone who is able to capture passphrases you type will probably get both. - The everyday passphrase can be easier to type. True - just about the only thing I can see in favour of the scheme. Remember that, of the passphrase and the secret key, the passphrase is the weaker element of your protection from impersonation. If you are taking extra precautions with your key-signing key, you should seriously consider keeping it on a floppy or similar, rather than leaving it on your PC - this is a much more significant improvement in security than using a different passphrase. If you're going to keep your key-signing secret key offline, you want to be able to split apart the different secret subkeys of a key, too. Isn't it far simpler just to make a separate key-signing key, rather than looking for a way to do this with subkeys? This is certainly a method a lot of people have used for years. --Clive. From owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Thu Feb 8 01:34:26 2001 Received: from ns.secondary.com (ns.secondary.com [208.184.76.39]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id BAA22196 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 01:34:26 -0500 (EST) Received: by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA23493 for ietf-openpgp-bks; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 22:00:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtprelay1.adelphia.net (smtprelay1.adelphia.net [64.8.25.6]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA23489 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 22:00:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from mwyoung ([24.48.233.14]) by smtprelay1.adelphia.net (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with SMTP id G8FCXU00.L6Y; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 01:05:54 -0500 Message-ID: <00a801c09195$5f89e0c0$c23fa8c0@transarc.ibm.com> From: "Michael Young" To: , References: <200102080110.BAA01994@konan.nsict.org> Subject: Re: [PGP-USERS] Limited utility of master/subkey Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 01:06:39 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Clive Jones wrote: > I don't think what you're trying to do is a good idea. I appreciate your concerns, but I do not share your conclusions. The care I take with a key and its passphrase *is* related to its value, which is in turn related to its lifetime. I may use a simpler passphrase for a key that deals with short-term messages than ones that guard other personal data or that signs other keys. I also attach a shorter expiration time to those less valuable keys. I also believe that the more a key is used, the greater chance of a compromise to due malice *or accident*. The ability to generate new subkeys seems to match my model. If my subkey were always as valuable as my master key, why would I ever generate another subkey? If the keys have different values, why is it unreasonable to allow different passphrases? No, it's not the only (or even best) way to mitigate risk, but I believe it can help. You suggest: > Isn't it far simpler just to make a separate key-signing key, rather > than looking for a way to do this with subkeys? This is certainly a > method a lot of people have used for years. I am doing just that. The *only* reason that it is simpler is that the tools have this limitation. This requires that human beings recognize that these keys are related (or grant my key-signing key greater trust than otherwise necessary). When PGP moved to DSA/DH, this could have been the solution: simply have two independent keys. That would have been just as unwieldy. The master/subkey approach recognizes the utility in the tools understanding a relationship between the keys. That utility does not depend on the keys having equal value -- in fact, it suggests the opposite -- nor does it depend on them having the same passphrase. I'm not suggesting that the tools shouldn't make it easy for someone to use the same passphrase for all the related keys -- clearly that suits most people's needs. I'm simply suggesting that they should allow for more advanced use. And certainly, when faced with an imported OpenPGP-compliant master/subkey group with different passphrases, it ought to behave reasonably. And for what it's worth, GNUPG does behave. (Thanks, Werner :-). PGP6 does not. I can't buy a personal PGP7 yet (or see source), so for it, I can't say. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP Personal Privacy 6.5.3 iQEVAwUBOoI3ZWNDnIII+QUHAQFBjQf6A10ScY8GV9m6QiIg2pWQw450rJI2h4KN wmbt5qi+sGnSttzk+kUroY+FKc2yfp1kmgW9Ru1RVIyUo7EU6gZEDc7MbQIt1vZE i2sxtk8E/0dPyYF2hamlAqAMAkRocHiYrbAWHfVAKQRfYKlNVGrOnHnlrlcdjz/Y d3zB6UxaJMReKk3tW+lsavd6ORtiaQDe7e0FZpoy+xsQwjmr3ZeuqY3BZt+74XOF RzpqVwNh5E1pKKMFwRtvLNfYkY6guwICGmpnp2/s67VFEUKxVoeioRBDywg6Ibd3 ZYZZY0E0mZRQLwrL2zWB0dL5J4cxSbqTCf3QwSBTUspYfIMflMVs0w== =zYrC -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Fri Feb 9 07:47:04 2001 Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id HAA14767 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 07:47:03 -0500 (EST) Received: by above.proper.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA01256 for ietf-openpgp-bks; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 04:24:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by above.proper.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA01251 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 04:24:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from CNRI.Reston.VA.US (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA13839; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 07:24:20 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200102091224.HAA13839@ietf.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" To: IETF-Announce: ; Cc: ietf-openpgp@imc.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Reply-to: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-openpgp-mime-04.txt Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 07:24:20 -0500 Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the An Open Specification for Pretty Good Privacy Working Group of the IETF. Title : MIME Security with OpenPGP Author(s) : M. Elkins, D. Del Torto, R. Levien, T. Roessler Filename : draft-ietf-openpgp-mime-04.txt Pages : 12 Date : 08-Feb-01 This document describes how the OpenPGP Message Format [1] can be used to provide privacy and authentication using the Multipurpose Internet Mail Extensions (MIME) security content types described in RFC1847 [2]. This draft is being discussed on the 'ietf-openpgp' mailing list. To join the list, send a message to with the single word 'subscribe' in the subject. An archive of the working group's list is located at . A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-openpgp-mime-04.txt Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-openpgp-mime-04.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-openpgp-mime-04.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <20010208135948.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-openpgp-mime-04.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-openpgp-mime-04.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <20010208135948.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- From owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Fri Feb 9 13:43:00 2001 Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id NAA28215 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 13:43:00 -0500 (EST) Received: by above.proper.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA24008 for ietf-openpgp-bks; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 10:27:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from mercury.rus.uni-stuttgart.de (mercury.rus.uni-stuttgart.de [129.69.1.226]) by above.proper.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA24004 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 10:27:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from rusfw by mercury.rus.uni-stuttgart.de with local (Exim 3.12 #4) id 14RI8S-00030N-00; Fri, 09 Feb 2001 19:19:08 +0100 To: ietf-openpgp@imc.org Cc: Thomas Roessler , Werner Koch Subject: Re: Finalizing OpenPGP/MIME? References: <20010125111926.M15272@alberti.gnupg.de> <20010125.201205.28840690.kazu@iijlab.net> <20010125123933.Y15272@alberti.gnupg.de> <20010125.212506.71143274.kazu@iijlab.net> <20010125135932.L15272@alberti.gnupg.de> From: Florian Weimer Date: 09 Feb 2001 19:19:08 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20010125135932.L15272@alberti.gnupg.de> Message-ID: Lines: 14 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/20.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Werner Koch writes: > > Or if you are suggesting just to set a bogus value to the micalg > > parameter because it is meaningless, why don't you support the idea of > > wildcard value? > > I won't object against a wildcard or a new value "unknown" What's your opinion, Thomas? -- Florian Weimer Florian.Weimer@RUS.Uni-Stuttgart.DE University of Stuttgart http://cert.uni-stuttgart.de/ RUS-CERT +49-711-685-5973/fax +49-711-685-5898 From owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Fri Feb 9 13:44:52 2001 Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id NAA28263 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 13:44:51 -0500 (EST) Received: by above.proper.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA24219 for ietf-openpgp-bks; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 10:32:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from mercury.rus.uni-stuttgart.de (mercury.rus.uni-stuttgart.de [129.69.1.226]) by above.proper.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA24215 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 10:32:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from rusfw by mercury.rus.uni-stuttgart.de with local (Exim 3.12 #4) id 14RIDS-00031G-00; Fri, 09 Feb 2001 19:24:18 +0100 To: ietf-openpgp@imc.org Cc: Kazu Yamamoto , warlord@mit.edu, ietf-openpgp@imc.org, Florian Weimer Subject: Re: some requests References: <20010125100145.A4323@sobolev.does-not-exist.org> From: Florian Weimer Date: 09 Feb 2001 19:24:18 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20010125100145.A4323@sobolev.does-not-exist.org> Message-ID: Lines: 26 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/20.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Thomas Roessler writes: > I suppose that your preferred solution would be to mandate > binary-mode signatures, so there is no need to give extra protection > to trailing whitespace. However, specifying this would mean that > most current implementations don't conform to the spec, unless I'm > severely mistaken. Florian? IMHO, the best solution is to use a new signature type (i.e. signature on a MIME part) in RFC 2440bis: 0x41: Signature of a MIME part. This means the signer owns it, created it, or certifies that it has not been modified. The signature is calculated over the text data with its line endings[1] converted to and trailing blank characters on each line removed. Trailing blank lines are also removed. Otherwise, we have to deal with this kind of problems for years. [1] See comment in the next article. -- Florian Weimer Florian.Weimer@RUS.Uni-Stuttgart.DE University of Stuttgart http://cert.uni-stuttgart.de/ RUS-CERT +49-711-685-5973/fax +49-711-685-5898 From owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Fri Feb 9 13:54:09 2001 Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id NAA28507 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 13:54:09 -0500 (EST) Received: by above.proper.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA23968 for ietf-openpgp-bks; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 10:26:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from mercury.rus.uni-stuttgart.de (mercury.rus.uni-stuttgart.de [129.69.1.226]) by above.proper.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23961 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 10:25:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from rusfw by mercury.rus.uni-stuttgart.de with local (Exim 3.12 #4) id 14RI7N-00030J-00; Fri, 09 Feb 2001 19:18:01 +0100 To: ietf-openpgp@imc.org Cc: Kazu Yamamoto , ietf-openpgp@imc.org Subject: Re: some requests References: <20010125100145.A4323@sobolev.does-not-exist.org> <20010126.161912.74694380.kazu@iijlab.net> <20010126113815.C18321@sobolev.does-not-exist.org> <20010126115714.A21502@sobolev.does-not-exist.org> From: Florian Weimer Date: 09 Feb 2001 19:18:01 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20010126115714.A21502@sobolev.does-not-exist.org> Message-ID: Lines: 36 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/20.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Thomas Roessler writes: > Note: If any line begins with the string "From", it is strongly > suggested that either the Quoted-Printable or Base64 MIME encoding > be applied. If Quoted-Printable is used, at least one of the > characters in the string should be encoded using the hexadecimal > coding rule. This is because many mail transfer and delivery > agents treat "From " (the word "from" followed immediately by a > space character) as the start of a new message and thus insert a > right angle-bracket (>) in front of any line beginning with "From" > to distinguish this case, invalidating the signature. Perhaps you can add the following text? If neither the Quoted-Printable nor Base64 MIME encoding is used, and the charset provides alternative encodings of ASCII characters, at least one characters in the string "From " shall be encoded in such a way. Alternatively, if the charset provides (control) characters without visible or semantic effect, such characters shall be used to make the ASCII representation of the beginning of the line distinct from "From ". AFAIK, ISO-2022-JP provides such noop characters (and UTF-7 provides an alternative encoding for ASCII characters, with UTF-8, you could use the BOM---which is, unfortunately, not without semantic effect, but that's a Unicode design problem anyway). This way, one of the main problems which requires mandated Quoted-Printable encoding can be addressed by ISO-2022-JP users, even if they use a 7bit CTE. BTW: I've recently seen a line starting with "from " which was mangled. Your text does not indicate if -- Florian Weimer Florian.Weimer@RUS.Uni-Stuttgart.DE University of Stuttgart http://cert.uni-stuttgart.de/ RUS-CERT +49-711-685-5973/fax +49-711-685-5898 From owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Fri Feb 9 13:56:39 2001 Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id NAA28600 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 13:56:38 -0500 (EST) Received: by above.proper.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA24840 for ietf-openpgp-bks; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 10:39:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from mercury.rus.uni-stuttgart.de (mercury.rus.uni-stuttgart.de [129.69.1.226]) by above.proper.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA24836 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 10:39:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from rusfw by mercury.rus.uni-stuttgart.de with local (Exim 3.12 #4) id 14RIKe-00032J-00 for ietf-openpgp@imc.org; Fri, 09 Feb 2001 19:31:44 +0100 To: ietf-openpgp@imc.org Subject: Text-mode signatures From: Florian Weimer Date: 09 Feb 2001 19:31:44 +0100 Message-ID: Lines: 18 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/20.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: From section 5.2.1 of RFC 2440bis: 0x01: Signature of a canonical text document. This means the signer owns it, created it, or certifies that it has not been modified. The signature is calculated over the text data with its line endings converted to and trailing blanks removed. What does 'line ending' mean in this context? According to section 3.4, text has to be interpreted in UTF-8. Which of the line endings available with UTF-8 shall be converted to ? What happens to trailing blank lines? -- Florian Weimer Florian.Weimer@RUS.Uni-Stuttgart.DE University of Stuttgart http://cert.uni-stuttgart.de/ RUS-CERT +49-711-685-5973/fax +49-711-685-5898 From owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Fri Feb 9 22:09:51 2001 Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id WAA07675 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 22:09:50 -0500 (EST) Received: by above.proper.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA17254 for ietf-openpgp-bks; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 18:58:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from mgo.iij.ad.jp (root@mgo.iij.ad.jp [202.232.15.6]) by above.proper.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA17250 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 18:58:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.iij.ad.jp (root@ns.iij.ad.jp [192.168.2.8]) by mgo.iij.ad.jp (8.8.8/MGO1.0) with ESMTP id LAA06820 for ; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 11:58:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from fs.iij.ad.jp (root@fs.iij.ad.jp [192.168.2.9]) by ns.iij.ad.jp (8.8.5/3.5Wpl7) with ESMTP id LAA25754 for ; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 11:58:46 +0900 (JST) Received: from localhost (mine.iij.ad.jp [192.168.4.209]) by fs.iij.ad.jp (8.8.5/3.5Wpl7) with ESMTP id LAA01606 for ; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 11:58:46 +0900 (JST) Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 11:59:54 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <20010210.115954.71114251.kazu@iijlab.net> To: ietf-openpgp@imc.org Subject: Re: some requests From: Kazu Yamamoto (=?iso-2022-jp?B?GyRCOzNLXE9CSScbKEI=?=) In-Reply-To: References: <20010126113815.C18321@sobolev.does-not-exist.org> <20010126115714.A21502@sobolev.does-not-exist.org> X-Mailer: Mew version 1.95b103 on Emacs 20.7 / Mule 4.1 (AOI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Florian Weimer Subject: Re: some requests > AFAIK, ISO-2022-JP provides such noop characters (and UTF-7 provides > an alternative encoding for ASCII characters, with UTF-8, you could > use the BOM---which is, unfortunately, not without semantic effect, > but that's a Unicode design problem anyway). This way, one of the > main problems which requires mandated Quoted-Printable encoding can be > addressed by ISO-2022-JP users, even if they use a 7bit CTE. Such encoding is possible. But I think redundant escape sequence is a bad idea. All in all, the problem of "From " is NOT a PGP/MIME issue, but a Multipart/Signed issue (which covers PGP/MIME, S/MIME, MOSS). If people want to include such a language, it should go to RFC 1847bis. --Kazu From owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Sat Feb 10 00:37:20 2001 Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id AAA10420 for ; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 00:37:19 -0500 (EST) Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by above.proper.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA18891 for ietf-openpgp-bks; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 21:23:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from NEPTUNE.zucotto.com ([216.95.209.154]) by above.proper.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA18886 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 21:23:50 -0800 (PST) Received: by NEPTUNE.zucotto.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 00:23:41 -0500 Message-ID: From: Kulwinder Atwal To: "'rohc@cdt.luth.se'" , "'confctrl@isi.edu'" , "'spki@c2.net'" , "'ietf-krb-wg@anl.gov'" , "'ietf-openpgp@imc.org'" Subject: FW: IP over Bluetooth for 50th Meeting of IETF. Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 00:23:40 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: -----Original Message----- From: Kulwinder Atwal Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 7:03 PM To: 'zeroconf@merit.edu'; seamoby@cdma-2000.org; MOBILE-IP@STANDARDS.NORTELNETWORKS.COM; 'srvloc@srvloc.org'; 'aaa-wg@merit.edu'; 'manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil'; 'ipsec@lists.tislabs.com'; 'ipsec-policy@vpnc.org'; 'ietf-ipsra@vpnc.org'; 'ietf-sacred@imc.org'; 'enum@ietf.org'; 'sigtran@standards.nortelnetworks.com'; 'ietf@ietf.org'; 'IETF-Announce@ietf.org'; 'BLUETOOTH-BOF@mailbag.cps.intel.com' Cc: 'Thomas Narten'; Akers Ron-WRA001 Subject: BOF: IP over Bluetooth for 50th Meeting of IETF. Myself and Ron Akers have requested an IP over Bluetooth BOF for the 50th Meeting of the IETF in Minneapolis. The BOF will discuss the creation of a IETF Working Group to investigate the most open and efficient way to place IP over the Bluetooth Host Controller. Current work in this area within the Bluetooth SIG concentrates on defining IP over a set of other lower-layer stacks. Currently there are two options defined by the Bluetoth SIG: Option 1: IP/PPP/RFCOM/L2CAP/Host Controller Option 2: IP/PAN Profile/L2CAP/Host Controller (where the PAN Profile is a Bluetooth SIG work in progress) We are proposing that the IETF form a WG to define a more efficient way of running IP over Bluetooth. In particular, IP would run over an IETF protocol over the Host Controller without L2CAP. This option may be adopted by the Bluetooth SIG at a later date as a Profile. Since all Bluetooth SIG Profiles are optional, a customer may choose any combination of Profiles in a final product. Further, since Bluetooth Working Groups have it in their mandate to adopt protocols from other standards making bodies such as the IETF, there exists a clear path for IETF work to be adopted by the Bluetooth SIG. Whereas the last BOF was informational only and organized by the Bluetooth SIG itself, the objective of this BOF will be to foster innovation, and speed progress by placing IP related protocol development within the IETF and Bluetooth-specific protocol development within the Bluetooth SIG, by developing an IP over Bluetooth IETF Working Group. This effort will define its own way of running IP over Bluetooth, by carefully selecting a set of Bluetooth protocols (freely available from published specifications at http://www.bluetooth.com/developer/specification/specification.asp) on which to build IP. Please join myself, Kulwinder Atwal, and Ron Akers on the pre-BOF mailing list: This site runs version 2.0.1 of the "Mailman" list manager. The following describes commands you can send to get information about, and control your subscription to the lists at this site. Note that much of the following can also be accomplished via the World Wide Web, at: http://internet.motlabs.com/mailman/listinfo/bluetooth In particular, you can use the Web site to have your password sent to your delivery address. Email commands can be in the subject line or in the body of the message. The commands should be set to the following address: About the descriptions - words in "<>"s signify REQUIRED items and words in "[]" denote OPTIONAL items. Do not include the "<>"s or "[]"s when you use the commands. The following commands are valid: subscribe [password] [digest-option] [address=
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