From nobody Sun Jun 10 15:28:50 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: payload@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: payload@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9013130F0B for ; Sun, 10 Jun 2018 15:28:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.799 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.799 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 98PE7LllTDJ2 for ; Sun, 10 Jun 2018 15:28:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.crt1.net (vds.seb.crt1.net [79.137.74.188]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 464151277CC for ; Sun, 10 Jun 2018 15:28:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [IPv6:fd68:2323:388:120:9226:3f62:4317:5b14] (unknown [IPv6:fd68:2323:388:120:9226:3f62:4317:5b14]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.crt1.net (SebMail/v2.00) with ESMTPS id 0755525A7; Mon, 11 Jun 2018 00:28:40 +0200 (CEST) To: payload@ietf.org From: =?UTF-8?Q?S=c3=a9bastien_Lugan?= Cc: Antonin Descampe , Thomas Richter , =?UTF-8?Q?Alexandre_Will=c3=a8me?= , =?UTF-8?Q?Ga=c3=abl_Rouvroy?= Message-ID: <00f6ebfa-0c81-8ba4-0094-4c97a2ae4e2b@dynmail.crt1.net> Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2018 00:28:35 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: [payload] Review request for JPEG XS RTP payload format I-D X-BeenThere: payload@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Payloads working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2018 22:28:49 -0000 Dear IETF Payload WG, We recently uploaded a new RTP payload format I-D for transporting JPEG XS encoded video: RTP Payload Format for ISO/IEC 21122 (JPEG XS) https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-lugan-payload-rtp-jpegxs/ Authors: S. Lugan, G. Rouvroy, A. Descampe (intoPIX) T. Richter (Fraunhofer IIS) A. Willeme (Université catholique de Louvain) Filename: draft-lugan-payload-rtp-jpegxs-00.txt Abstract: This document specifies a Real-Time Transport Protocol (RTP) payload format to be used for transporting ISO/IEC 21122 (JPEG XS) encoded video. ISO/IEC 21122 (JPEG XS) is a low-latency, lightweight image coding system allowing for an increased resolution and frame rate, while offering visually lossless quality with reduced amount of resources such as power and bandwidth. Might we kindly ask you to review this I-D and send your comments? Many thanks in advance, Best regards, -- Sébastien Lugan From nobody Mon Jun 11 07:15:14 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: payload@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: payload@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CD9D130E2B for ; Mon, 11 Jun 2018 07:15:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.31 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.31 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PAL0UdlvJmd9 for ; Mon, 11 Jun 2018 07:15:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sesbmg23.ericsson.net (sesbmg23.ericsson.net [193.180.251.37]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 794731294D0 for ; Mon, 11 Jun 2018 07:15:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=ericsson.com; s=mailgw201801; c=relaxed/simple; q=dns/txt; i=@ericsson.com; t=1528726508; h=From:Sender:Reply-To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:To:Cc:MIME-Version:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From: Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=L7Y443nnlBSTLe9qhgKIyX2Eh+cYC11TTyrLijhZX8k=; b=LvCexE/UPElbzrdHWxMJf+QoEj83c+Xp3ZjfBbUtSjpOv7mNiZ9zKdEms4s6KgOt PBpsFZOXyJC4FJlm8bMTt+9uuSo2XBsJ1IrYU456o3TvvMXwjbjpnDDM7wAKG/fo 4mYHoYpaIpstPouI+v6M4r2g6z1ncJ6ziE/jMTY9/ec=; X-AuditID: c1b4fb25-703639c000003465-b7-5b1e83ec22e0 Received: from ESESSHC016.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.183.66]) by sesbmg23.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 77.ED.13413.CE38E1B5; Mon, 11 Jun 2018 16:15:08 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [100.94.32.30] (153.88.183.153) by smtps.internal.ericsson.com (153.88.183.66) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.382.0; Mon, 11 Jun 2018 16:15:07 +0200 To: "payload@ietf.org" References: <6E58094ECC8D8344914996DAD28F1CCD86E663@DGGEMM506-MBX.china.huawei.com> From: Magnus Westerlund Message-ID: <2d9b0ac5-87f2-6f50-2a4e-bf7e7943d55d@ericsson.com> Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2018 16:15:10 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <6E58094ECC8D8344914996DAD28F1CCD86E663@DGGEMM506-MBX.china.huawei.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------47909C8969E3778F68A7E8BE" Content-Language: en-GB X-Originating-IP: [153.88.183.153] X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFrrOLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM2K7k+6bZrlog3X/dS0uXTzL5MDosWTJ T6YAxigum5TUnMyy1CJ9uwSujFnLfjMVbPapmHlrBWsD4xmbLkZODgkBE4mZ5x6wdzFycQgJ HGGUWPj0NjOEs5FR4sKKmewgVcIC3hKPVu9m7WLk4BAR0JR49F0IJCwkECxxeecEJhCbTcBC 4uaPRjYQm1fAXmLhrotMIOUsAqoSp+94gIRFBWIkVm+8zA5RIihxcuYTFpASToEQie7+eJAw s0CYxKQZl9ggbHGJpi8rWSE2aUs0NHWwQpysJHF93nWWCYwCs5BMmoWkfRaS9llAG5iBDnqw tQwiLC/RvHU2M4StL3H9zn1WZPEFjOyrGEWLU4uTctONjPVSizKTi4vz8/TyUks2MQKD++CW 36o7GC+/cTzEKMDBqMTDe79CLlqINbGsuDL3EKMEB7OSCK+XAlCINyWxsiq1KD++qDQntfgQ ozQHi5I470PzzVFCAumJJanZqakFqUUwWSYOTqkGRr35irq8i3Ypu+e+4JuzRvHgR8EHrquj 79/o0opwYrl2aem/VbVSm2+xd7EuKHBZq/NRUXHO8btuqacEH3N/UWo//yEggaPhyGWbrd8F I1ee0Uj+UbytZw7rbpPXphxqPNPz/1T8cugW1PmYsV9kQukzS4+zi+1zwtX1fp6oqK95smrt rj1mF5RYijMSDbWYi4oTAZvKM4dqAgAA Archived-At: Subject: Re: [payload] [rtcweb] Second WGLC on draft-ietf-payload-flexible-fec-scheme X-BeenThere: payload@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Payloads working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2018 14:15:14 -0000 --------------47909C8969E3778F68A7E8BE Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi, I have now reviewed -07. It is not ready yet. A significant issue appear to exist around how one recovers CSRC lists or header extensions. 1. Section 4.2.2, Figure 13: The R and F bits are swapped. To my understanding this figure should use R=0 and F=1, i.e. 0 1 in the two first bits. 2. Section 4.2.2, Figure 15: So when R=1, why is F=1? As neither of the F values apply when R=1, why not simply define that F=0, which would result in that the RTP payload would be equal to the complete RTP packet being retransmitted? 3. Section 4.2.2, Figure 15: Why isn't the CSRC list or packet header extension of the retransmitted packet included in the figure, they will be there if P or X bits of the Retransmission is present? Or are they counted as part of the retransmission / repair payload? 4. Section 6.2:    The repair packet payload consists of the bits that are generated by    applying the XOR operation on the payloads of the source RTP packets.    If the payload lengths of the source packets are not equal, each    shorter packet MUST be padded to the length of the longest packet by    adding octet 0's at the end. The repair packet does not appear to protect the source packets packet extension or CSRC list. I think what is missing here is the need to be explicit that the repair payload will be XOR of the source packets' CSRC list, extension header and payload? The reverse thus need to be explicitly said in the recovery section also. Cheers Magnus Den 2018-03-22 kl. 17:41, skrev Roni Even (A): > > Hi, > > I would like to start a three week second WGLC on RTP Payload Format > for Flexible Forward Error Correction in > draft-ietf-payload-flexible-fec-scheme-07 > . > > The WGLC will end on April 11^th , 2018 > > Note that the first WGLC was on the 05 version  and the 06,07 are > incremental updates. > > The slides from the IETF 101 payload session describe the changes see > https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/101/materials/slides-101-payload-flexible-fec-00 > . > > Please send comments to the payload mailing list. > > The double posting is to  notify RTCweb WG that the second  WGLC has > started since this document is needed for RTCweb > > Roni Even > > Payload WG co-chair > > > > _______________________________________________ > rtcweb mailing list > rtcweb@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb -- Magnus Westerlund ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Network Architecture & Protocols, Ericsson Research ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Ericsson AB | Phone +46 10 7148287 Torshamnsgatan 23 | Mobile +46 73 0949079 SE-164 80 Stockholm, Sweden | mailto: magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------47909C8969E3778F68A7E8BE Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Hi,

I have now reviewed -07. It is not ready yet. A significant issue appear to exist around how one recovers CSRC lists or header extensions.

1. Section 4.2.2, Figure 13:

The R and F bits are swapped. To my understanding this figure should use R=0 and F=1, i.e. 0 1 in the two first bits.

2. Section 4.2.2, Figure 15:

So when R=1, why is F=1? As neither of the F values apply when R=1, why not simply define that F=0, which would result in that the RTP payload would be equal to the complete RTP packet being retransmitted?

3. Section 4.2.2, Figure 15:

Why isn't the CSRC list or packet header extension of the retransmitted packet included in the figure, they will be there if P or X bits of the Retransmission is present? Or are they counted as part of the retransmission / repair payload?

4. Section 6.2:

   The repair packet payload consists of the bits that are generated by
   applying the XOR operation on the payloads of the source RTP packets.
   If the payload lengths of the source packets are not equal, each
   shorter packet MUST be padded to the length of the longest packet by
   adding octet 0's at the end.

The repair packet does not appear to protect the source packets packet extension or CSRC list. I think what is missing here is the need to be explicit that the repair payload will be XOR of the source packets' CSRC list, extension header and payload?

The reverse thus need to be explicitly said in the recovery section also.

Cheers

Magnus


Den 2018-03-22 kl. 17:41, skrev Roni Even (A):

Hi,

I would like to start a three week second WGLC on RTP Payload Format for Flexible Forward Error Correction in draft-ietf-payload-flexible-fec-scheme-07.

The WGLC will end on April 11th , 2018

 

Note that the first WGLC was on the 05 version  and the 06,07 are incremental updates.

The slides from the IETF 101 payload session describe the changes see https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/101/materials/slides-101-payload-flexible-fec-00 .

 

Please send comments to the payload mailing list.

The double posting is to  notify RTCweb WG that the second  WGLC has started since this document is needed for RTCweb

 

 

Roni Even

Payload WG co-chair

 



_______________________________________________
rtcweb mailing list
rtcweb@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb


-- 

Magnus Westerlund 

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Network Architecture & Protocols, Ericsson Research
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ericsson AB                 | Phone  +46 10 7148287
Torshamnsgatan 23           | Mobile +46 73 0949079
SE-164 80 Stockholm, Sweden | mailto: magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------47909C8969E3778F68A7E8BE-- From nobody Thu Jun 14 01:35:01 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: payload@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: payload@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 971F31310FB for ; Thu, 14 Jun 2018 01:34:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QDuY2U9oR88q for ; Thu, 14 Jun 2018 01:34:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailwdc.intopix.com (mailwdc.intopix.com [212.166.5.108]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 01530130DF9 for ; Thu, 14 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14:21:26 +0000 From: Thomas Edwards To: Antonin Descampe , =?utf-8?B?U8OpYmFzdGllbiBMdWdhbg==?= , "payload@ietf.org" CC: =?utf-8?B?QWxleGFuZHJlIFdpbGzDqG1l?= , Gael Rouvroy Thread-Topic: [payload] Review request for JPEG XS RTP payload format I-D Thread-Index: AQHUA+r62cp6M+09qk6b6d86nJIwXA== Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2018 14:21:26 +0000 Message-ID: <190648FD-BCAD-431F-97B3-98E00E8A6BC7@foxeg.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/10.e.1.180613 x-originating-ip: [172.248.113.135] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; BN7PR05MB4499; 7:HtTY2/BbDE/VXg4XJpgkEJs3rQcFSB+met04ECFcLj4W5HzpGKRthnrjYfUiy2ixUGRTuqe0zuws7khnGiX5erE/TgJjjjv+ZefEs6gynXnllFiHMnqgiEPo4LYypgS+Doc8vj0JiA+jFw5m0zqV7t6rCG8Z8mJAeMUfu7va/8HPo0xBnS+kw3mmIVDIgkT1Fd6P+p7ER8XdFLpAJ44b0nsg7Q75aPOvZ/cUPFDFc3fWoabbSz9TnTVwKhYNW89b; 20:nWdg9RQ08C2M+bAGb1mQWehaxohYknSfYsdIJA4Eb6yFODvOk2CxqYZ6i7eHtlNRZ5tNZ61/1yGQHNwymUZzzLG9JqiGzINm49zVAMyAOKm2ijQGMQkJTErbfN5uhSWdaIjo9LtzZTLR7xJ6zEcZmkf7KldGttN2hWVeOhNy/Wc= x-ms-exchange-antispam-srfa-diagnostics: SOS; x-ms-office365-filtering-ht: Tenant x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 4737ed74-7f79-40e8-f994-08d5d2021d16 x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(7020095)(4652020)(48565401081)(5600026)(711020)(4534165)(4627221)(201703031133081)(201702281549075)(2017052603328)(7153060)(7193020); SRVR:BN7PR05MB4499; x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: BN7PR05MB4499: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:(28532068793085)(10436049006162)(120809045254105)(21748063052155)(177823376758907); x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(8211001083)(6040522)(2401047)(8121501046)(5005006)(10201501046)(93006095)(93001095)(3002001)(3231254)(944501410)(52105095)(6055026)(149027)(150027)(6041310)(201703131423095)(201702281528075)(20161123555045)(201703061421075)(201703061406153)(20161123560045)(20161123562045)(20161123558120)(20161123564045)(6072148)(201708071742011)(7699016); SRVR:BN7PR05MB4499; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:BN7PR05MB4499; x-forefront-prvs: 0703B549E4 x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10009020)(346002)(376002)(366004)(396003)(39860400002)(39380400002)(51874003)(199004)(189003)(2501003)(5890100001)(14454004)(5250100002)(3846002)(81166006)(81156014)(105586002)(2900100001)(6116002)(33656002)(3280700002)(8676002)(3660700001)(82746002)(68736007)(606006)(7736002)(66066001)(33896004)(5660300001)(59450400001)(4326008)(26005)(53546011)(6506007)(102836004)(2906002)(186003)(99286004)(54906003)(110136005)(58126008)(36756003)(478600001)(54896002)(6306002)(229853002)(6246003)(25786009)(486006)(6512007)(9686003)(236005)(106356001)(8936002)(6486002)(966005)(316002)(476003)(72206003)(53936002)(6436002)(83716003)(97736004)(86362001); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; SCL:1; SRVR:BN7PR05MB4499; H:BN7PR05MB4003.namprd05.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: fox.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: qcoDX637XlQpsvy9871xY/CcjUe7GylBaNt5oY2E8RBBnSkcrv2EE6Ja480O4+Lc4fOnD4OgIjFQp3TmN4mWHsjmViza0BMvlv0z+0Aa4ORJUv8GNaz3VAgnpoKOhK8PcaCVZ5IsVM1HYuJB5wRUxwhRo3MCfoopYb/KuMt1GRKF4YyqyFSPQjV89OmpF3Vs spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_190648FDBCAD431F97B398E00E8A6BC7foxegcom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: fox.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 4737ed74-7f79-40e8-f994-08d5d2021d16 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 14 Jun 2018 14:21:26.0544 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: de99ade3-81db-4070-ae0d-3c1562041b30 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN7PR05MB4499 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:, , definitions=2018-06-14_05:, , signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_notspam policy=outbound score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 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amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Zo5A3CbywXsO for ; Fri, 15 Jun 2018 06:45:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.selectric.de (mail.selectric.de [62.214.68.130]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 317B1130ED2 for ; Fri, 15 Jun 2018 06:45:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [172.27.0.206] (port=26135 helo=mail.selectric.de) by mail.selectric.de with esmtps (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.82_1-5b7a7c0-XX) (envelope-from ) id 1fTp2X-00018p-1Y for payload@ietf.org; Fri, 15 Jun 2018 15:45:21 +0200 Received: from EXCHANGE.SELECTRIC.local 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Delivered-To: payload@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DCBAF128CF3 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2018 22:09:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.189 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.189 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_KAM_HTML_FONT_INVALID=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6ltkzAy0C2VL for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2018 22:09:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BCEE11310A6 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2018 22:09:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml701-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.108]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id D1D557C781D8E for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2018 06:09:36 +0100 (IST) Received: from DGGEMM403-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.3.20.211) by lhreml701-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.42) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.382.0; Tue, 19 Jun 2018 06:09:37 +0100 Received: from DGGEMM506-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.3.222]) by DGGEMM403-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.3.20.211]) with mapi id 14.03.0382.000; Tue, 19 Jun 2018 13:09:30 +0800 From: "Roni Even (A)" To: "Mo Zanaty (mzanaty)" , "ali.begen@networked.media" CC: "payload@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [payload] [rtcweb] Second WGLC on draft-ietf-payload-flexible-fec-scheme Thread-Index: AQHUAY6llbGXqMDpkUqDYTFDKWWQ3aRnE+OQ Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2018 05:09:29 +0000 Message-ID: <6E58094ECC8D8344914996DAD28F1CCD89B8B6@DGGEMM506-MBX.china.huawei.com> References: <6E58094ECC8D8344914996DAD28F1CCD86E663@DGGEMM506-MBX.china.huawei.com> <2d9b0ac5-87f2-6f50-2a4e-bf7e7943d55d@ericsson.com> In-Reply-To: <2d9b0ac5-87f2-6f50-2a4e-bf7e7943d55d@ericsson.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.200.202.68] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_6E58094ECC8D8344914996DAD28F1CCD89B8B6DGGEMM506MBXchina_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [payload] [rtcweb] Second WGLC on draft-ietf-payload-flexible-fec-scheme X-BeenThere: payload@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Payloads working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2018 05:09:46 -0000 --_000_6E58094ECC8D8344914996DAD28F1CCD89B8B6DGGEMM506MBXchina_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Mo, I hope you noticed Magnus comments Can you please respond. I will be happy if we can finish the work on this document soon Roni Even (A) Payload WG co-chair From: payload [mailto:payload-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Magnus Westerl= und Sent: Monday, June 11, 2018 5:15 PM To: payload@ietf.org Subject: Re: [payload] [rtcweb] Second WGLC on draft-ietf-payload-flexible-= fec-scheme Hi, I have now reviewed -07. It is not ready yet. A significant issue appear to= exist around how one recovers CSRC lists or header extensions. 1. Section 4.2.2, Figure 13: The R and F bits are swapped. To my understanding this figure should use R= =3D0 and F=3D1, i.e. 0 1 in the two first bits. 2. Section 4.2.2, Figure 15: So when R=3D1, why is F=3D1? As neither of the F values apply when R=3D1, w= hy not simply define that F=3D0, which would result in that the RTP payload= would be equal to the complete RTP packet being retransmitted? 3. Section 4.2.2, Figure 15: Why isn't the CSRC list or packet header extension of the retransmitted pac= ket included in the figure, they will be there if P or X bits of the Retran= smission is present? Or are they counted as part of the retransmission / re= pair payload? 4. Section 6.2: The repair packet payload consists of the bits that are generated by applying the XOR operation on the payloads of the source RTP packets. If the payload lengths of the source packets are not equal, each shorter packet MUST be padded to the length of the longest packet by adding octet 0's at the end. The repair packet does not appear to protect the source packets packet exte= nsion or CSRC list. I think what is missing here is the need to be explicit= that the repair payload will be XOR of the source packets' CSRC list, exte= nsion header and payload? The reverse thus need to be explicitly said in the recovery section also. Cheers Magnus Den 2018-03-22 kl. 17:41, skrev Roni Even (A): Hi, I would like to start a three week second WGLC on RTP Payload Format for Fl= exible Forward Error Correction in draft-ietf-payload-flexible-fec-scheme-0= 7. The WGLC will end on April 11th , 2018 Note that the first WGLC was on the 05 version and the 06,07 are increment= al updates. The slides from the IETF 101 payload session describe the changes see https= ://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/101/materials/slides-101-payload-flexible-f= ec-00 . Please send comments to the payload mailing list. The double posting is to notify RTCweb WG that the second WGLC has starte= d since this document is needed for RTCweb Roni Even Payload WG co-chair _______________________________________________ rtcweb mailing list rtcweb@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb -- Magnus Westerlund ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Network Architecture & Protocols, Ericsson Research ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Ericsson AB | Phone +46 10 7148287 Torshamnsgatan 23 | Mobile +46 73 0949079 SE-164 80 Stockholm, Sweden | mailto: magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- --_000_6E58094ECC8D8344914996DAD28F1CCD89B8B6DGGEMM506MBXchina_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Mo,

I hope you noticed Mag= nus comments

Can you please respond= .

I will be happy if we = can finish the work on this document soon

Roni Even (A)

Payload WG co-chair

 

 

From: payload [mailto:payload-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Magnus Westerlund
Sent: Monday, June 11, 2018 5:15 PM
To: payload@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [payload] [rtcweb] Second WGLC on draft-ietf-payload-fl= exible-fec-scheme

 

Hi,

I have now reviewed -07. It is not ready yet. A significant issue appear= to exist around how one recovers CSRC lists or header extensions.

1. Section 4.2.2, Figure 13:

The R and F bits are swapped. To my understanding this figure should use= R=3D0 and F=3D1, i.e. 0 1 in the two first bits.

2. Section 4.2.2, Figure 15:

So when R=3D1, why is F=3D1? As neither of the F values apply when R=3D1= , why not simply define that F=3D0, which would result in that the RTP payl= oad would be equal to the complete RTP packet being retransmitted?

3. Section 4.2.2, Figure 15:

Why isn't the CSRC list or packet header extension of the retransmitted = packet included in the figure, they will be there if P or X bits of the Ret= ransmission is present? Or are they counted as part of the retransmission /= repair payload?

4. Section 6.2:

   The repair packet payload consists of the bits that are gen= erated by
   applying the XOR operation on the payloads of the source RTP p= ackets.
   If the payload lengths of the source packets are not equal, ea= ch
   shorter packet MUST be padded to the length of the longest pac= ket by
   adding octet 0's at the end.

The repair packet does not appear to protect the source packets packet e= xtension or CSRC list. I think what is missing here is the need to be expli= cit that the repair payload will be XOR of the source packets' CSRC list, e= xtension header and payload?

The reverse thus need to be explicitly said in the recovery section also= .

Cheers

Magnus

 

Den 2018-03-22 kl. 17:41, skrev Roni Even (A):

Hi,

I would like to start a three week second WGLC on RT= P Payload Format for Flexible Forward Error Correction in draft-ietf-payload-flexible-fec-scheme-07.

The WGLC will end on April 11th , 2018

 

Note that the first WGLC was on the 05 version  = ;and the 06,07 are incremental updates.

The slides from the IETF 101 payload session describ= e the changes see https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/101/materials/slides-101-payload-flexi= ble-fec-00 .

 

Please send comments to the payload mailing list.

The double posting is to  notify RTCweb WG that= the second  WGLC has started since this document is needed for RTCweb=

 

 

Roni Even

Payload WG co-chair

 




_______________________________________________
rtcweb mailing list
rtcweb@ietf.org

https://www.i=
etf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb









-- 


 


Magnus Westerlund 


 


----------------------------------------------------------------------=



Network Architecture & Protocols, Ericsson Research

----------------------------------------------------------------------=



Ericsson AB          =
;       | Phone  +46 10 7148287=



Torshamnsgatan 23         =
;  | Mobile +46 73 0949079


SE-164 80 Stockholm, Sweden | mailto: magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com


----------------------------------------------------------------------=
--_000_6E58094ECC8D8344914996DAD28F1CCD89B8B6DGGEMM506MBXchina_-- From nobody Mon Jun 18 22:17:12 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: payload@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: payload@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7947A130ED0 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2018 22:17:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9d77DoOZYAyr for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2018 22:17:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C10E4128CF3 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2018 22:17:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.107]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 031FBA0B76BCC for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2018 06:17:04 +0100 (IST) Received: from DGGEMM405-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.3.20.213) by lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.45) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.382.0; Tue, 19 Jun 2018 06:17:05 +0100 Received: from DGGEMM506-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.3.222]) by DGGEMM405-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.3.20.213]) with mapi id 14.03.0382.000; Tue, 19 Jun 2018 13:17:02 +0800 From: "Roni Even (A)" To: "payload@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: WGLC on draft-ietf-payload-tetra-00 Thread-Index: AdQHjKXfOH660LXOQg2Zf8NE43PcCw== Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2018 05:17:02 +0000 Message-ID: <6E58094ECC8D8344914996DAD28F1CCD89B8D0@DGGEMM506-MBX.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.200.202.68] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_6E58094ECC8D8344914996DAD28F1CCD89B8D0DGGEMM506MBXchina_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: [payload] WGLC on draft-ietf-payload-tetra-00 X-BeenThere: payload@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Payloads working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2018 05:17:10 -0000 --_000_6E58094ECC8D8344914996DAD28F1CCD89B8D0DGGEMM506MBXchina_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable WG, We are starting WGLC for https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-payload-tet= ra-00 . Please review the draft and send your comments to the list by July = 10th . If you read the draft but you have no comments, say so as well. There were already some comments on the mailing list and we can consider th= em as part of the WGLC comments Roni Even (A) Payload WG co-chair --_000_6E58094ECC8D8344914996DAD28F1CCD89B8D0DGGEMM506MBXchina_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

WG,

 

We are starting WGLC for https:/= /tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-payload-tetra-00 . Please review the dr= aft and send your comments to the list by July 10th . If you rea= d the draft but you have no comments, say so as well.

 

There were already some comments on the= mailing list and we can consider them as part of the WGLC comments

 

Roni Even (A) Payload WG co-chair<= /o:p>

--_000_6E58094ECC8D8344914996DAD28F1CCD89B8D0DGGEMM506MBXchina_-- From nobody Tue Jun 19 06:52:45 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: payload@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: payload@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE769130EAA for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2018 06:52:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pcz6E7uU1v78 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2018 06:52:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1D5CB1294D7 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2018 06:52:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml701-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.108]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id A335742646EFD for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2018 14:52:34 +0100 (IST) Received: from DGGEMM403-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.3.20.211) by lhreml701-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.42) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.382.0; Tue, 19 Jun 2018 14:52:14 +0100 Received: from DGGEMM506-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.3.222]) by DGGEMM403-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.3.20.211]) with mapi id 14.03.0382.000; Tue, 19 Jun 2018 21:52:09 +0800 From: "Roni Even (A)" To: =?utf-8?B?U8OpYmFzdGllbiBMdWdhbg==?= , "payload@ietf.org" CC: =?utf-8?B?QWxleGFuZHJlIFdpbGzDqG1l?= , =?utf-8?B?R2HDq2wgUm91dnJveQ==?= Thread-Topic: [payload] Review request for JPEG XS RTP payload format I-D Thread-Index: AQHUAQpwQj9QTabMnUGRFfPxfjpHL6Rnnt+A Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2018 13:52:08 +0000 Message-ID: <6E58094ECC8D8344914996DAD28F1CCD89B9D7@DGGEMM506-MBX.china.huawei.com> References: <00f6ebfa-0c81-8ba4-0094-4c97a2ae4e2b@dynmail.crt1.net> In-Reply-To: <00f6ebfa-0c81-8ba4-0094-4c97a2ae4e2b@dynmail.crt1.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.200.202.68] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [payload] Review request for JPEG XS RTP payload format I-D X-BeenThere: payload@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Payloads working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2018 13:52:43 -0000 SGksDQpJIGRpZCBhbiBpbml0aWFsIHJldmlldywgaW4gZ2VuZXJhbCB0aGUgZG9jdW1lbnQgaXMg aW4gbGluZSB3aXRoIHRoZSBXRyBjaGFydGVyIHNvIHdlIGNhbiBhc2sgdGhlIFdHIHRvIGFkb3B0 IHRoZSBkb2N1bWVudC4NCllldCwgYWZ0ZXIgcmV2aWV3aW5nIHRoZSBkb2N1bWVudCBJIHN1Z2dl 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qWJhc3RpZW4gTHVnYW4NCg0KX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX18NCnBheWxvYWQgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQpwYXlsb2FkQGlldGYub3JnDQpodHRwczov L3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL3BheWxvYWQNCg== From nobody Tue Jun 19 06:54:39 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: payload@ietf.org Delivered-To: payload@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AB0513102D; Tue, 19 Jun 2018 06:54:36 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Eric Rescorla To: "The IESG" Cc: ali.begen@networked.media, payload-chairs@ietf.org, payload@ietf.org, draft-ietf-payload-rtp-vc2hq@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.81.2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <152941647603.30045.10144097525043801716.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2018 06:54:36 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [payload] Eric Rescorla's No Objection on draft-ietf-payload-rtp-vc2hq-06: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: payload@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Payloads working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2018 13:54:37 -0000 Eric Rescorla has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-payload-rtp-vc2hq-06: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-payload-rtp-vc2hq/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Rich version of this review at: https://mozphab-ietf.devsvcdev.mozaws.net/D4183 I am not sure that this specification can be interoperably implemented. I have noted a number of points below. I believe these are largely minor and so have not made this a DISCUSS, but it is important they be resolved. This document would also benefit from significant editorial work. Based on S 4.5.1, I take the structure to be that you start with the VC-2 stream and then use RTP headers to contain the information in Parse Info blocks. If that is correct, it would be much clearer if stated upfront. IMPORTANT S 4.2. > > The fields of the extended headers are defined as follows: > > Extended Sequence Number: 16 bits MUST Contain the high-order > 16-bits of the 32-bit packet sequence number, a number which > increments with each packet. This is needed since the high Increments by one? S 4.2. > data rates of VC2 Sequences mean that it is highly likely that > the 16-bit sequence number will roll-over too frequently to be > of use for stream synchronisation. > > B: 1 bit MUST be set to 1 if the packet contains the first byte of > an Auxiliary Data or Padded Data Unit. And otherwise must be 0? S 4.2. > > B: 1 bit MUST be set to 1 if the packet contains the first byte of > an Auxiliary Data or Padded Data Unit. > > E: 1 bit MUST be set to 1 if the packet contains the final byte of > an Auxiliary Data or Padded Data Unit. And otherwise must be 0? S 4.2. > from a new picture until all the coded data from the current > picture has been sent. > > If the receiver does not receive a transform parameters packet > for a picture then it MAY assume that the parameters are > unchanged since the last picture, or MAY discard the picture. How does this interact with packet loss? COMMENTS S 3. > the decoder. > > Each Sequence consists of a series of 13-octet Parse Info headers and > variable length Data Units. The Sequence begins and ends with a > Parse Info header and each Data Unit is preceded by a Parse Info > Header. Data Units come in a variety of types, the most important This text isn't very clear to me. Is the following valid: PI | Data | PI? How about PI | PI | Data | PI. PI | PI | PI | Data | PI? S 3. > should not be assumed. > > The High Quality (HQ) profile for VC-2 restricts the types of Parse > Info Headers which may appear in the Sequence to only: > > o Sequence Headers, The text above says that Sequence Headers are a type of Data Unit. So I'm confused by this text. S 4. > > 4. Payload format > > This specification only covers the transport of Sequence Headers, > High Quality Fragments, Auxiliary Data, and (optionally) End of > Sequence Headers and Padding Data. So it doesn't include Parse Info? S 4. > Picture (Figure 2), > > o A Picture Fragment containing VC-2 Coded Slices (Figure 3) for a > picture, > > o The end of a VC-2 Sequence (Figure 4) It would be helpful if you cited specific sections of VC-2 for these. S 4. > . . > +---------------------------------------------------------------+ > > Figure 6: RTP Payload Format For Padding Data > > All fields in the headers longer than a single bit are interprted as Nit: interpreted. S 4.2. > > Data Length: 32 bits For an auxiliary data unit this contains the > number of bytes of data contained in the uncoded payload > section of this packet. For a Padding Data Unit this field may > have any value and simply indicates the size of the recommended > padding. This seems like a very large field given that RTP datagrams are almost never this large, so I am suspecting the "uncoded payload" means pre- compressed? Can you be clearer.. From nobody Tue Jun 19 08:07:19 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: payload@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: payload@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F8E813117B for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2018 08:07:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id odqXIzZ3vsqJ for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2018 08:07:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailwdc.intopix.com (mailwdc.intopix.com [212.166.5.108]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 76890131171 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2018 08:07:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from IPX-MAIL.Intopix.com ([172.30.30.1]) by IPX-MAIL.Intopix.com ([172.30.30.1]) with mapi id 14.03.0352.000; Tue, 19 Jun 2018 17:06:56 +0200 From: Antonin Descampe To: "Roni Even (A)" CC: =?utf-8?B?U8OpYmFzdGllbiBMdWdhbg==?= , "payload@ietf.org" , =?utf-8?B?QWxleGFuZHJlIFdpbGzDqG1l?= , Gael Rouvroy Thread-Topic: [payload] Review request for JPEG XS RTP payload format I-D Thread-Index: AQHUAQpp8NSLNb48wkmqFkTGtj4jZqRnhdEAgAAU5YA= Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2018 15:06:55 +0000 Message-ID: <0CCFFFB3-76D2-408D-A712-454272E4188A@intopix.com> References: <00f6ebfa-0c81-8ba4-0094-4c97a2ae4e2b@dynmail.crt1.net> <6E58094ECC8D8344914996DAD28F1CCD89B9D7@DGGEMM506-MBX.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <6E58094ECC8D8344914996DAD28F1CCD89B9D7@DGGEMM506-MBX.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: fr-FR, fr-BE, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [130.104.207.223] x-tm-as-product-ver: SMEX-11.7.0.1024-8.200.1013-23916.006 x-tm-as-result: No--14.304900-0.000000-31 x-tm-as-user-approved-sender: Yes x-tm-as-user-blocked-sender: No Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <5FFAF577AD5C6643ABDE5387E1C5EFC9@Intopix.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [payload] Review request for JPEG XS RTP payload format I-D X-BeenThere: payload@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Payloads working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2018 15:07:18 -0000 SGksDQoNCk1hbnkgdGhhbmtzIGZvciB0aGUgcmV2aWV3LiBXZSB3aWxsIHVwZGF0ZSB0aGUgZG9j dW1lbnQgYWNjb3JkaW5nbHkgYW5kIHVwbG9hZCBhIG5ldyB2ZXJzaW9uLg0KDQpMZXQgdXMga25v dyBpZiBhbnl0aGluZyBlbHNlIG5lZWRzIHRvIGJlIGRvbmUgZm9yIHRoZSBXRyB0byBmb3JtYWxs eSBhZG9wdCBpdC4NCg0KS2luZCByZWdhcmRzLA0KDQpBbnRvbmluDQoNCj4gTGUgMTkganVpbiAy MDE4IMOgIDE1OjUyLCBSb25pIEV2ZW4gKEEpIDxyb25pLmV2ZW5AaHVhd2VpLmNvbT4gYSDDqWNy 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[127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63835131138 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2018 08:26:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YCPekIasJlt9 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2018 08:26:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailout0.telhc.bbc.co.uk (mailout0.telhc.bbc.co.uk [132.185.161.179]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3E9771310FF for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2018 08:26:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from BGB01XI1010.national.core.bbc.co.uk (bgb01xi1010.national.core.bbc.co.uk [10.161.14.14]) by mailout0.telhc.bbc.co.uk (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id w5JFQ5xI004625; Tue, 19 Jun 2018 16:26:05 +0100 (BST) Received: from BGB01XUD1011.national.core.bbc.co.uk ([10.161.14.9]) by BGB01XI1010.national.core.bbc.co.uk ([10.161.14.14]) with mapi id 14.03.0389.001; Tue, 19 Jun 2018 16:26:05 +0100 From: John Fletcher To: "Roni Even (A)" CC: "payload@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [payload] Review request for JPEG XS RTP payload format I-D Thread-Index: AQHUAQtXUOJI6veZdke/6ryfR8+bE6RnlpMAgAAU5YCAABPZQA== Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2018 15:26:04 +0000 Message-ID: References: <00f6ebfa-0c81-8ba4-0094-4c97a2ae4e2b@dynmail.crt1.net> <6E58094ECC8D8344914996DAD28F1CCD89B9D7@DGGEMM506-MBX.china.huawei.com> <0CCFFFB3-76D2-408D-A712-454272E4188A@intopix.com> In-Reply-To: <0CCFFFB3-76D2-408D-A712-454272E4188A@intopix.com> Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [172.19.161.211] x-exclaimer-md-config: c91d45b2-6e10-4209-9543-d9970fac71b7 x-tm-as-product-ver: SMEX-12.5.0.1300-8.2.1013-23916.006 x-tm-as-result: No-13.396000-8.000000-10 x-tmase-matchedrid: cxtZ8fwm3r/W/bDrA6VrLeRw69tAYXNGwx0jRRxcQfMXPp87POq9xtPV 2US5XhxRyDrAFlp+gNQj6dD+WNgAH9tYagCyhdujlVHM/F6YkvQUkWvaqUqLHwaLqa3WVs9Tdhe NPERaTAAJMpAsjUArn/HaM0CgN+w5PazLoNl+mI3zh2yKdnl7WDZGMQjwI7CaAvQoQVB1owVPJ/ 9pWYAEqmfV20HQjQYDVvfZKw/ZYWX1YAnKwZYkDLu9iqQJLR0vQUKKY0wOokouF7LnVmeCUBzll v0af4rK5NBvEMa3vVVuzfvRGL+9gE0eOhDHYyZWqVdeuk7LerRqTX06kzHrl+QydRUvl3QTCx53 vGB6GzScKSKEpmosktqo7fjtdwn7EW/OUCN5GOctR8fVMTBo3UCrr/LkAQ460KaJBUk7woAyoJR NWYUu4Plzl8FAOi4kASYYCDbplDZ48YB5KfXbgvSG/+sPtZVkZodCyXXZLewR34ro7k23nadiXD O39MaX1FfBpRH+itx21LVtV00gydq72IXmYAV7qbg9uWhLYLcFcnqPYTPUh5uSv4SfxhK3M7nDU IL90GvnzlXMYw4XMIGsNX5eg/aOVnRXm1iHN1bEQdG7H66TyH4gKq42LRYk2bytWnEZtnq9/Zft u4O1h0ROxPYoDuCrGTgj99m+zgB+3BndfXUhXQ== x-tm-as-user-approved-sender: Yes x-tm-as-user-blocked-sender: No x-tmase-result: 10--13.396000-8.000000 x-tmase-version: SMEX-12.5.0.1300-8.2.1013-23916.006 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [payload] Review request for JPEG XS RTP payload format I-D X-BeenThere: payload@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Payloads working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2018 15:26:15 -0000 QSBjb21tZW50IGZyb20gbWUgYWJvdXQgdGhpcyBzZWN0aW9uOg0KDQogICAgdGltZXN0YW1wID0g Zmxvb3IoKG5vdyAtIGVwb2NoKSo5MDAwMCkgJSAyXjMyDQoNCiAgIHdoZXJlIG5vdyBhbmQgZXBv Y2ggYXJlIHJlYWwgbnVtYmVycyBleHByZXNzZWQgaW4gc2Vjb25kcywgbm93IGJlaW5nDQogICB0 aGUgY3VycmVudCB0aW1lc3RhbXAgYW5kIGVwb2NoIHRoZSByZWZlcmVuY2UgdGltZXN0YW1wDQoN ClRoZSB0ZXJtICJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiIHNlZW1zIHRvIGJlIHVzZWQgZm9yIHR3byBkaWZmZXJlbnQg dGhpbmdzLCBvbmUgdGhlIFJUUCB0aW1lc3RhbXAgaW4gdW5pdHMgb2YgMS85MDAwMCBvZiBhIHNl Y29uZCwgYW5kIHRoZSBvdGhlciBpbiBzZWNvbmRzIG9uIGFuIHVuc3BlY2lmaWVkIHRpbWVzY2Fs 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c3RpbmZvL3BheWxvYWQNCg0KX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX18NCnBheWxvYWQgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQpwYXlsb2FkQGlldGYub3JnDQpodHRwczov L3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL3BheWxvYWQNCg== From nobody Tue Jun 19 12:06:15 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: payload@ietf.org Delivered-To: payload@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15B471311CF; Tue, 19 Jun 2018 12:06:06 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Benjamin Kaduk To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-payload-rtp-vc2hq@ietf.org, ali.begen@networked.media, payload-chairs@ietf.org, ali.begen@networked.media, payload@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.81.2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <152943516607.32343.1107662038846659185.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2018 12:06:06 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [payload] Benjamin Kaduk's No Objection on draft-ietf-payload-rtp-vc2hq-06: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: payload@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Payloads working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2018 19:06:13 -0000 Benjamin Kaduk has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-payload-rtp-vc2hq-06: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-payload-rtp-vc2hq/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for the clear Security Considerations section. I am a little uncertain about the privacy properties of the padding data, though, largely due to my uncertainty about the details of how the padding works. (This is, perhaps, in a similar vein to Eric's general concerns on interoperability.) In particular, Section 4.2 says that the Data Length for a Padding Data Unit "may have any value" and "indicates the size of the recommended padding". There is also an "Optional Payload Data" in Figure 6, and I failed to find a description of what its contents are for padding data units. Section 4.5.1's coverage of the Padding Data Parse Info Header suggests that the "native VC-2" and RTP padding elements are essentially distinct, with the RTP one being essentially a recommendation to add a VC-2 one, but giving no mandatory guidance on how much padding to apply. In this scenario I don't know what the purpose of the "optional payload data" in Figure 6 be, though. Padding is of course ignored by the actual VC-2 decoder, so the concern would mostly be if the (RTP) bits on the wire include a side channel or "stegangraphic channel" (not exactly the normal meaning of that one) where identifying information could be inserted, unbeknownst to the recipient. This could come into play if media encryption is not used, or when a middlebox/mixer is used, or probably in other scenarios as well. The specification of all-zeros padding along with the Padding Data Parse Info Header of course removes any such channel at that point, but I didn't see a real confirmation that there was no channel in the RTP bits on the wire. Some additional section-by-section comments follow. Section 4.1 Timestamp: 32 bits If the packet contains transform parameters or coded slice data for a coded picture then the timestamp corresponds to the sampling instant of the coded picture. A 90kHz clock SHOULD be used. A single RTP packet MUST NOT contain coded data for more than one coded picture, so there is no ambiguity here. Is this a new requirement or quoting a preexisting one? If a new requirement, I suggest replacing "so there is no ambiguity here" with "in order to eliminate any chance for ambiguity". Section 4.2 If the receiver does not receive a transform parameters packet for a picture then it MAY assume that the parameters are unchanged since the last picture, or MAY discard the picture. Those seem like two very different options! How would I choose between them? We only get the starting x- and y-coordinates of a slice for the first slice in a packet; it sounds like the main VC-2 spec specifies the order in which the following slices are laid out? (Do we need to say anything about what "x coordinate" and "y coordinate" mean? I seem to recall that over history there have existed pixel identifying schemes that put the origin at both the top left and bottom left of the display.) Section 4.5.1 There is some text here and elsewhere that seems to imply reusing a Parse Info Header for various data received in different RTP packets, potentially even from different coded pictures. The Parse Info Header contains "next" and "prev parse offset"s, though -- when would those offsets need to be updated? o A receiver MAY combine all fragment data units (with parse code 0xEC) and the same picture number into a single picture data unit with parse code 0xE8. If the stream is required to comply with major versions 1 or 2 of the VC-2 Spec then this MUST be done. The "and" in "and the same picture number" seems to be an editing error; maybe "with" is better? o Once a data unit has been assembled, whether a Sequence Header, Coded Picture Fragment, Coded Picture, or Auxiliary Data Unit, the next parse offset and previous parse offset values in its Parse Info Header should be filled with the offset between the start of the header and the start of the next or previous. This text could probably be tightened up with respect to which next/previous fields are updated when, and what values go in them. E.g., do we have enough information to fill in the "previous" field when we start assembling a data unit, and the "next" when we finish assembling that data unit? Section 6.1 Perhaps "RFC XXXX" makes more sense as the "published specification" than ST 2042-1? That is, this is where the (mandatory) RTP framing is required, so it may be a better starting point for an implementor. From nobody Tue Jun 19 13:01:53 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: payload@ietf.org Delivered-To: payload@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 561B7130E6E; Tue, 19 Jun 2018 13:01:46 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Adam Roach To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-payload-rtp-vc2hq@ietf.org, ali.begen@networked.media, payload-chairs@ietf.org, ali.begen@networked.media, payload@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.81.2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <152943850634.32270.3044591697939186046.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2018 13:01:46 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [payload] Adam Roach's No Objection on draft-ietf-payload-rtp-vc2hq-06: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: payload@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Payloads working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2018 20:01:47 -0000 Adam Roach has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-payload-rtp-vc2hq-06: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-payload-rtp-vc2hq/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for the work on this document. Given that the underlying format doesn't appear to be resilient to loss, I'm a little surprised to see no discussion of FEC; and, in particular, no treatment of the allocation of unequal error protection to the various packet types. For example, it sounds like the transform parameters packet is significantly more important than, e.g., a picture fragment that contains slices. I suspect there is a general prioritization among the various types that would useful to call out for implementors. From nobody Mon Jun 25 08:20:37 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: payload@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: payload@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E3CE130E04 for ; Mon, 25 Jun 2018 08:20:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TR_ytwO-XPPV for ; Mon, 25 Jun 2018 08:20:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cuda.olm1.com (cuda.olm1.com [72.236.255.32]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E61E7130EA7 for ; Mon, 25 Jun 2018 08:20:30 -0700 (PDT) X-ASG-Debug-ID: 1529939838-092fd30322b65b0001-U2jSCT Received: from host105.olm1.com (host105.olm1.com [72.236.255.15]) by cuda.olm1.com with ESMTP id 96FHeDpvvwQPjedH (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 25 Jun 2018 11:17:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Barracuda-Envelope-From: Dave.Satterlee@vocal.com X-Barracuda-Apparent-Source-IP: 72.236.255.15 Received: from [192.168.11.222] (rrcs-72-43-202-98.nys.biz.rr.com [72.43.202.98]) by host105.olm1.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id DDECFB44713; Mon, 25 Jun 2018 11:17:18 -0400 (EDT) To: "payload@ietf.org" X-ASG-Orig-Subj: Re: [payload] WGLC on draft-ietf-payload-tetra-00 References: <6E58094ECC8D8344914996DAD28F1CCD89B8D0@DGGEMM506-MBX.china.huawei.com> From: "Dave Satterlee (Vocal)" Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=Dave.Satterlee@vocal.com; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= xsFNBFefUJQBEACplue4WNnPVdkcwqiUNnmdmvwADKWk7Leil/8zu7HcFDldPe5OBR7PEutO sLZy679YVSGGxrQhpLQCdnQHXchMxxwCluCcKFDb2G9DDR60ADVW0cPrbk1YQ8/S/qHwRG3F DXQBOQhM+Yp/RMjvT1vXXWlyoEFYpciMO9Zz71SUG/arZddXHE6+npWGhIqOQYcW5KNWLvq5 6FyZC/+Ak5CnS1V5XwRP1wKjSxS+ReghT3ykp5Pwtsh472ix22WvHO3MOktrFUr88bbVMjKP M9wFDkAHuWRNEHHDycN5byRE1IYwEED1YnjTkxRPVaHx5j8rtov3QZz52dBukn+ln4Kip4GV p9MgsUnnV85IDVUzGDymD/rKoQ030GBIXG8jbrtCd4E/qTLQF/kv8LNhuq+kPXFHj8s3ODjF NzhD8tNUN2l6poAG8Qpy114ybgy8L7Lco9ts2Ham4Q1je5pKNQGkxrgFyaKXGE6euVP2pqOC UzdqgsW8dRb6/SrR5dDEUd8WOjByS0lhH11J2RsFkF2gS5aCxwlDVCBL/EdtzD5J/qT5hDDB gNd7EemB7k7myWaEYWa0hDMvRoQ9B0QpASTqTfmtUDC0QK99qWYXzzuP+sViL1cU++L58SBM A9hxnQdHqbAIpJu/vxVdsmELyrGg0estmZ2MOFDZqkbz7MOpmQARAQABzTFEYXZlIFNhdHRl cmxlZSAoVm9jYWwpIDxEYXZlLlNhdHRlcmxlZUB2b2NhbC5jb20+wsF/BBMBCAApBQJXn1CU AhsjBQkJZgGABwsJCAcDAgEGFQgCCQoLBBYCAwECHgECF4AACgkQX+7cGIMiwvmcwRAAipLB 7qq+QL3e93wRPG8EAZRkeyID/O7FbQwcAi9WtCmi4eL3yrASRjifHb8o0XZ7J9I0a+hQ6QnJ Lin2tehfYeD41TOSXfqTGGbmMQ5zpwQr+cbrASZbgoUYfvlV1ad9eL9pZPKjiJdtD4ZQtw9N DVa3/f53PRUHJJRi4hADpJK3xuYNd6UAN5SG4fGV1nQy7+/25OTpE0Yc3+avv9AMU46LlcgD cdC9tvUXlUoY9fvu+NWSLuSWh/g4z5Ye/bdlN/2J9TMpizxuhJBEy2M02DUI+FxwY7Vvys6D tkMqrMXfD2XV0gIlg1hyW+WwKypkvPjRcveZ0vukzNZBWVyU9ORsdkfD26vGSbfBT+oiZCTb afjbhZzwDKK3KzTeITbjhSTNnWmOKeQXqlV9nXSVYZxJObzIzzY7iUujmWFgAK4BklfIA0SG Z7TxDU52oIZhF9mKUESA12AELhXx8ZVM4CPO2xNEhbFVLTr6YCr1+uDamyWl0vqzz4Q9NPGI xU2yFHvdzE6fu547hU7BCZ+7aEx59HA9HIBowHFUk5JjmmNU5vv+VMu2/iqfGJdZQnmC2Gtn q32Mtq2PFmCVEKpWHC9WAehihD5hE0qPj+uW6MtNuJhySMU8wJZZVGK4AtcALh24ZBFF+zon mk2yFOsy9YIjqTU6+yUiR9Qv85LtKiDOwU0EV59QlAEQAMaYaxnHmdvoDR8DOyJJSMCDFfQf d2J3oh2mkB1jkY7PKrD2w94yklvFaeczfD4MiAzCy6maV/yJ4fS+UbDaLaHstHXqWjupvf9z l73edz/e5nEuf2BGf8lzs9y5N6tIL+SQmjjaO7zisQyxTLedRBTJSKrZwjPJISN3Xlo67Dh9 6RYwhObjFCAN+Q8F5q8fZvdn+w4nzkvlowihkHYuv70t4v2Kl85TBwWmVn+f238UcgKXLR9f wJCd++ZPhjttYkcAjYR+5Yh18IQv6wqfdI+LQbH0Wuh2QhcD50Cv+QdWl+0ERkQReiH10Pej plv3FEO/heMqRGDjm4qcZvgUHDT1xP2B39HJO8pGOmEgVdDm71fTrbxL4+eo09NJymccMvz8 Lki0u9JulwNM4v90AySMZCTTzwvNVQkEFxAPgSLzNpnYcXhX5pm4pm9Zmrm2GMeh+8Lc+V4b rkPiTf+Unnbj4ZPZpbESzxbxlLlrJLai2IEw+W4siBPawQ9USfDaoUbjM2NZ/B7m/f9hddfT OrHOm9ex0KPNuKLXclQsnJd1yvc+UCH3Msb7zWApkH9R3eFCRiYAchrswEla8PO6UpiQO7KY SeQxPIGA+e+XSUpbnnnSe7lWtUL5kLneUXI67I+SCKST5yRZ1n9dIfxFxO6kP69sh4nxfcHK s10FIeBjABEBAAHCwWUEGAEIAA8FAlefUJQCGwwFCQlmAYAACgkQX+7cGIMiwvk41g//SXIa p+Uvj2Wswi5tVi4EcnA0gw06iiTeT4lQX8RlrZc9wrxrZu9L9nm6eZnmEUJxO4+4yzbuhQ3u 8dkDjLIcUcoJsEI/Pr9bFjuNniCPM+AHUSG5jXxSNrLaqsoJfDmGQCh2I8goyCB60K14v4cX 9kGZBMxlPkZZ+C9trGf+CGiKBZ6NEU6wUvr1Wpf8N/q8eFN84LrFEcllYmllClWNkqrEVtlC ePnyxXde/rO13kxEG6x4EgqIbEzzUDMYOdXlvFWsBH51VE0IpUIP+Wo6aE+mHacVGhf3NN7F 0/KNZjChmjtFkWcGl9JZzLi9JVeNi+r7c1iDXewPMQehF/b4ooivym5Q6zQDXLztDFm1mORT Nh9U34mk2Q3OjGYAYWJ6cXjGtNHRRSECDYSKBOGUAENydntaBn8zRfC5wTtrx222oQFthPXI ebGob9Xomu8Mpjlny/rMHZcN99cexECdKA0+vmKIGuKifLWpIpRWLZvNWTNOoR9Pt5otz2IA WY1UIUKN7K71MzvJ8RFKyszoe9cd+RVA9siudAa2AZiTuMeVQZBnnKzZHsz5qKH6U9RQB1nm 2VVBxLtNCQvqnLclX1PA0/6ri2NUUmXHrnu099CF1TGxKDcLghfDrWOWaDFwWqBabIhKPOU3 9HJXyFltQhHUyjLK107ffvm02XrJ77M= Organization: Vocal Technologies Message-ID: <7007509a-2f39-1621-7bf5-df877eadd3be@vocal.com> Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2018 11:17:18 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <6E58094ECC8D8344914996DAD28F1CCD89B8D0@DGGEMM506-MBX.china.huawei.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------A7C292974DDF6A3D9054027F" Content-Language: en-US X-Barracuda-Connect: host105.olm1.com[72.236.255.15] X-Barracuda-Start-Time: 1529939838 X-Barracuda-Encrypted: ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 X-Barracuda-URL: https://72.236.255.32:443/cgi-mod/mark.cgi X-Virus-Scanned: by bsmtpd at olm1.com X-Barracuda-BRTS-Status: 1 X-Barracuda-Spam-Score: 0.00 X-Barracuda-Spam-Status: No, SCORE=0.00 using global scores of TAG_LEVEL=1000.0 QUARANTINE_LEVEL=1000.0 KILL_LEVEL=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE X-Barracuda-Spam-Report: Code version 3.2, rules version 3.2.3.52335 Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.00 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message Archived-At: Subject: Re: [payload] WGLC on draft-ietf-payload-tetra-00 X-BeenThere: payload@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Payloads working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2018 15:20:35 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------A7C292974DDF6A3D9054027F Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Review Comments for:    RTP Payload Format for the TETRA Audio Codec  draft-ietf-payload-tetra-00   June 25, 2018 by David Satterlee David.Satterlee@vocal.com   The draft appears to be generally well specified and useful.   Review Comments: In section 1 (Introduction) the document says "The payload format supports transmission of multiple channels..." . It is unclear to me what this means, and where it is specified in the draft. There are a number of non-technical issues (grammatical etc.).  I believe type of review is for a later stage, but I can make some recommendations on that aspect as well if needed.   Regards, Dave Satterlee VOCAL Technologies On 6/19/2018 1:17 AM, Roni Even (A) wrote: > > WG, > >   > > We are starting WGLC for https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-payload-tetra-00 . > Please review the draft and send your comments to the list by July 10^th . If you read > the draft but you have no comments, say so as well. > >   > > There were already some comments on the mailing list and we can consider them as part of > the WGLC comments > >   > > Roni Even (A) Payload WG co-chair > --------------A7C292974DDF6A3D9054027F Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Review Comments for:
 
 RTP Payload Format for the TETRA Audio Codec
 draft-ietf-payload-tetra-00
 
June 25, 2018 by
David Satterlee
David.Satterlee@vocal.com
 
The draft appears to be generally well specified and useful.
 
Review Comments:

In section 1 (Introduction) the document says "The payload format supports transmission of multiple channels..." . It is unclear to me what this means, and where it is specified in the draft.

There are a number of non-technical issues (grammatical etc.).  I believe type of review is for a later stage, but I can make some recommendations on that aspect as well if needed.

       
      

      Regards,

      Dave Satterlee

      VOCAL Technologies

      

      

      

      On 6/19/2018 1:17 AM, Roni Even (A) wrote:

    

    

      
      
      
      

        
WG,

        
 

        
We
            are starting WGLC for
            https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-payload-tetra-00
            . Please review the draft and send your comments to the list
            by July 10th . If you read the draft but you have
            no comments, say so as well.

        
 

        
There
            were already some comments on the mailing list and we can
            consider them as part of the WGLC comments

        
 

        
Roni
            Even (A) Payload WG co-chair

      

    

    

  


--------------A7C292974DDF6A3D9054027F--


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From: "Roni Even (A)" 
To: Benjamin Kaduk , The IESG 
CC: "draft-ietf-payload-rtp-vc2hq@ietf.org" , "ali.begen@networked.media" , "payload-chairs@ietf.org" , "ali.begen@networked.media" , "payload@ietf.org" 
Thread-Topic: Benjamin Kaduk's No Objection on draft-ietf-payload-rtp-vc2hq-06: (with COMMENT)
Thread-Index: AQHUCACe4kRSjk4vtkyeIomsg0kZqqRzt3GA
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2018 06:56:24 +0000
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Subject: Re: [payload] Benjamin Kaduk's No Objection on draft-ietf-payload-rtp-vc2hq-06: (with COMMENT)
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From: Eric Rescorla 
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2018 05:03:57 -0700
Message-ID: 
To: "Roni Even (A)" 
Cc: The IESG , "ali.begen@networked.media" ,  "payload-chairs@ietf.org" , "payload@ietf.org" ,  "draft-ietf-payload-rtp-vc2hq@ietf.org" 
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Subject: Re: [payload] Eric Rescorla's No Objection on draft-ietf-payload-rtp-vc2hq-06: (with COMMENT)
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On Tue, Jun 26, 2018 at 11:48 PM, Roni Even (A) 
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> S 4.2.
> >
> >      The fields of the extended headers are defined as follows:
> >
> >      Extended Sequence Number: 16 bits  MUST Contain the high-order
> >            16-bits of the 32-bit packet sequence number, a number which
> >            increments with each packet.  This is needed since the high
>
> Increments by one?
>
> RE: I assume that you meant that the sequence number is incremented in
> each packet and not the extended sequence number.
>

Yes.


BTW: if you meant the sequence number you do not need to say " a number
> which increments with each packet." Since this is the definition in RFC3550
>
>    sequence number: 16 bits
>       The sequence number increments by one for each RTP data packet
>       sent, and may be used by the receiver to detect packet loss and to
>       restore packet sequence.  The initial value of the sequence number
>       SHOULD be random (unpredictable) to make known-plaintext attacks
>       on encryption more difficult, even if the source itself does not
>       encrypt according to the method in Section 9.1, because the
>       packets may flow through a translator that does.  Techniques for
>       choosing unpredictable numbers are discussed in [17].
>

Well, it seems like if you are going to bother to say it, you should be
precise, but this is a comment, so do as you think best.

>
> Roni
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Eric Rescorla [mailto:ekr@rtfm.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2018 4:55 PM
> To: The IESG
> Cc: ali.begen@networked.media; payload-chairs@ietf.org; payload@ietf.org;
> draft-ietf-payload-rtp-vc2hq@ietf.org
> Subject: Eric Rescorla's No Objection on draft-ietf-payload-rtp-vc2hq-06:
> (with COMMENT)
>
> Eric Rescorla has entered the following ballot position for
> draft-ietf-payload-rtp-vc2hq-06: No Objection
>
> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all
> email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this
> introductory paragraph, however.)
>
>
> Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html
> for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.
>
>
> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-payload-rtp-vc2hq/
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> COMMENT:
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Rich version of this review at:
> https://mozphab-ietf.devsvcdev.mozaws.net/D4183
>
>
> I am not sure that this specification can be interoperably implemented. I
> have noted a number of points below. I believe these are largely minor and
> so have not made this a DISCUSS, but it is important they be resolved.
>
> This document would also benefit from significant editorial work.
> Based on S  4.5.1, I take the structure to be that you start with the
> VC-2 stream and then use RTP headers to contain the information in Parse
> Info blocks. If that is correct, it would be much clearer if stated upfront.
>
>
>
> IMPORTANT
> S 4.2.
> >
> >      The fields of the extended headers are defined as follows:
> >
> >      Extended Sequence Number: 16 bits  MUST Contain the high-order
> >            16-bits of the 32-bit packet sequence number, a number which
> >            increments with each packet.  This is needed since the high
>
> Increments by one?
>
>
> S 4.2.
> >            data rates of VC2 Sequences mean that it is highly likely that
> >            the 16-bit sequence number will roll-over too frequently to be
> >            of use for stream synchronisation.
> >
> >      B: 1 bit  MUST be set to 1 if the packet contains the first byte of
> >            an Auxiliary Data or Padded Data Unit.
>
> And otherwise must be 0?
>
>
> S 4.2.
> >
> >      B: 1 bit  MUST be set to 1 if the packet contains the first byte of
> >            an Auxiliary Data or Padded Data Unit.
> >
> >      E: 1 bit  MUST be set to 1 if the packet contains the final byte of
> >            an Auxiliary Data or Padded Data Unit.
>
> And otherwise must be 0?
>
>
> S 4.2.
> >            from a new picture until all the coded data from the current
> >            picture has been sent.
> >
> >            If the receiver does not receive a transform parameters packet
> >            for a picture then it MAY assume that the parameters are
> >            unchanged since the last picture, or MAY discard the picture.
>
> How does this interact with packet loss?
>
> COMMENTS
> S 3.
> >      the decoder.
> >
> >      Each Sequence consists of a series of 13-octet Parse Info headers
> and
> >      variable length Data Units.  The Sequence begins and ends with a
> >      Parse Info header and each Data Unit is preceded by a Parse Info
> >      Header.  Data Units come in a variety of types, the most
> > important
>
> This text isn't very clear to me. Is the following valid: PI | Data | PI?
> How about PI | PI | Data | PI.  PI | PI | PI | Data | PI?
>
>
>
>
> S 3.
> >      should not be assumed.
> >
> >      The High Quality (HQ) profile for VC-2 restricts the types of Parse
> >      Info Headers which may appear in the Sequence to only:
> >
> >      o  Sequence Headers,
>
> The text above says that Sequence Headers are a type of Data Unit. So I'm
> confused by this text.
>
>
> S 4.
> >
> >   4.  Payload format
> >
> >      This specification only covers the transport of Sequence Headers,
> >      High Quality Fragments, Auxiliary Data, and (optionally) End of
> >      Sequence Headers and Padding Data.
>
> So it doesn't include Parse Info?
>
>
> S 4.
> >         Picture (Figure 2),
> >
> >      o  A Picture Fragment containing VC-2 Coded Slices (Figure 3) for a
> >         picture,
> >
> >      o  The end of a VC-2 Sequence (Figure 4)
>
> It would be helpful if you cited specific sections of VC-2 for these.
>
>
> S 4.
> >      .                                                               .
> >      +---------------------------------------------------------------+
> >
> >                  Figure 6: RTP Payload Format For Padding Data
> >
> >      All fields in the headers longer than a single bit are interprted
> > as
>
> Nit: interpreted.
>
>
> S 4.2.
> >
> >      Data Length: 32 bits  For an auxiliary data unit this contains the
> >            number of bytes of data contained in the uncoded payload
> >            section of this packet.  For a Padding Data Unit this field
> may
> >            have any value and simply indicates the size of the
> recommended
> >            padding.
>
> This seems like a very large field given that RTP datagrams are almost
> never this large, so I am suspecting the "uncoded payload" means pre-
> compressed? Can you be clearer..
>
>
>

--0000000000003f8722056f9e6b41
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable




On Tue, Jun 26, 2018 at 11:48 PM, Roni Even (A) <<=
a href=3D"mailto:roni.even@huawei.com" target=3D"_blank">roni.even@huawei.c=
om> wrote:
Hi,



S 4.2.

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 The fields of the extended headers are defined as =
follows:

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Extended Sequence Number: 16 bits=C2=A0 MUST Conta=
in the high-order

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 16-bits of the 32-bit packet =
sequence number, a number which

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 increments with each packet.=
=C2=A0 This is needed since the high



Increments by one?



RE: I assume that you meant that the sequence number is incremented =
in each packet and not the extended sequence number. 
=

Yes.

 

BTW: if you meant the sequence number you do not need to say " a numbe=
r which increments with each packet." Since this is the definition in =
RFC3550



=C2=A0 =C2=A0sequence number: 16 bits

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 The sequence number increments by one for each RTP dat=
a packet

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 sent, and may be used by the receiver to detect packet=
 loss and to

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 restore packet sequence.=C2=A0 The initial value of th=
e sequence number

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 SHOULD be random (unpredictable) to make known-plainte=
xt attacks

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 on encryption more difficult, even if the source itsel=
f does not

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 encrypt according to the method in Section 9.1, becaus=
e the

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 packets may flow through a translator that does.=C2=A0=
 Techniques for

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 choosing unpredictable numbers are discussed in [17].<=
br>

Well, it seems like if you are going to=
 bother to say it, you should be precise, but this is a comment, so do as y=
ou think best. 



Roni




-----Original Message-----

From: Eric Rescorla [mailto:ekr@rtfm.com] 

Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2018 4:55 PM

To: The IESG

Cc: ali.begen@networked.media; p=
ayload-chairs@ietf.org; payload@iet=
f.org; draft-i=
etf-payload-rtp-vc2hq@ietf.org

Subject: Eric Rescorla's No Objection on draft-ietf-payload-rtp-vc2hq-<=
wbr>06: (with COMMENT)



Eric Rescorla has entered the following ballot position for

draft-ietf-payload-rtp-vc2hq-06: No Objection



When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email=
 addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introduc=
tory paragraph, however.)





Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/<=
wbr>statement/discuss-criteria.html

for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.





The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/=
draft-ietf-payload-rtp-vc2hq/







-----------------------------------------------------------------=
-----

COMMENT:

-----------------------------------------------------------------=
-----



Rich version of this review at:

https://mozphab-ietf.devsvcdev.mozaws.net/D4183<=
/a>





I am not sure that this specification can be interoperably implemented. I h=
ave noted a number of points below. I believe these are largely minor and s=
o have not made this a DISCUSS, but it is important they be resolved.



This document would also benefit from significant editorial work.

Based on S=C2=A0 4.5.1, I take the structure to be that you start with the<=
br>
VC-2 stream and then use RTP headers to contain the information in Parse In=
fo blocks. If that is correct, it would be much clearer if stated upfront.<=
br>






IMPORTANT

S 4.2.

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 The fields of the extended headers are defined as =
follows:

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Extended Sequence Number: 16 bits=C2=A0 MUST Conta=
in the high-order

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 16-bits of the 32-bit packet =
sequence number, a number which

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 increments with each packet.=
=C2=A0 This is needed since the high



Increments by one?





S 4.2.

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 data rates of VC2 Sequences m=
ean that it is highly likely that

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 the 16-bit sequence number wi=
ll roll-over too frequently to be

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 of use for stream synchronisa=
tion.

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 B: 1 bit=C2=A0 MUST be set to 1 if the packet cont=
ains the first byte of

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 an Auxiliary Data or Padded D=
ata Unit.



And otherwise must be 0?





S 4.2.

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 B: 1 bit=C2=A0 MUST be set to 1 if the packet cont=
ains the first byte of

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 an Auxiliary Data or Padded D=
ata Unit.

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 E: 1 bit=C2=A0 MUST be set to 1 if the packet cont=
ains the final byte of

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 an Auxiliary Data or Padded D=
ata Unit.



And otherwise must be 0?





S 4.2.

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 from a new picture until all =
the coded data from the current

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 picture has been sent.

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 If the receiver does not rece=
ive a transform parameters packet

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 for a picture then it MAY ass=
ume that the parameters are

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 unchanged since the last pict=
ure, or MAY discard the picture.



How does this interact with packet loss?



COMMENTS

S 3.

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 the decoder.

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Each Sequence consists of a series of 13-octet Par=
se Info headers and

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 variable length Data Units.=C2=A0 The Sequence beg=
ins and ends with a

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Parse Info header and each Data Unit is preceded b=
y a Parse Info

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Header.=C2=A0 Data Units come in a variety of type=
s, the most 

> important



This text isn't very clear to me. Is the following valid: PI | Data | P=
I? How about PI | PI | Data | PI.=C2=A0 PI | PI | PI | Data | PI?









S 3.

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 should not be assumed.

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 The High Quality (HQ) profile for VC-2 restricts t=
he types of Parse

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Info Headers which may appear in the Sequence to o=
nly:

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 o=C2=A0 Sequence Headers,



The text above says that Sequence Headers are a type of Data Unit. So I'=
;m confused by this text.





S 4.

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0

>=C2=A0 =C2=A04.=C2=A0 Payload format

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 This specification only covers the transport of Se=
quence Headers,

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 High Quality Fragments, Auxiliary Data, and (optio=
nally) End of

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Sequence Headers and Padding Data.



So it doesn't include Parse Info?





S 4.

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Picture (Figure 2),

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 o=C2=A0 A Picture Fragment containing VC-2 Coded S=
lices (Figure 3) for a

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0picture,

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 o=C2=A0 The end of a VC-2 Sequence (Figure 4)



It would be helpful if you cited specific sections of VC-2 for these.





S 4.

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 .=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0.

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 +--------------------------------------------=
-------------------+

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Figure 6=
: RTP Payload Format For Padding Data

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 All fields in the headers longer than a single bit=
 are interprted 

> as



Nit: interpreted.





S 4.2.

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Data Length: 32 bits=C2=A0 For an auxiliary data u=
nit this contains the

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 number of bytes of data conta=
ined in the uncoded payload

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 section of this packet.=C2=A0=
 For a Padding Data Unit this field may

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 have any value and simply ind=
icates the size of the recommended

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 padding.



This seems like a very large field given that RTP datagrams are almost neve=
r this large, so I am suspecting the "uncoded payload" means pre-=
 compressed? Can you be clearer..









--0000000000003f8722056f9e6b41--


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To: "Roni Even (A)" , Benjamin Kaduk , The IESG 
CC: "payload-chairs@ietf.org" , "payload@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-payload-rtp-vc2hq@ietf.org" 
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From: "Roni Even (A)" 
To: "Dave Satterlee (Vocal)" , "payload@ietf.org" 
Thread-Topic: [payload] WGLC on draft-ietf-payload-tetra-00
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Subject: Re: [payload] WGLC on draft-ietf-payload-tetra-00
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--_000_6E58094ECC8D8344914996DAD28F1CCD89EBFFDGGEMM506MBXchina_
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Hi Dave,
The process is after addressing the WGLC is to send the document for public=
ation, so if you have more comments please send them now
Thanks
Roni Even
Payload WG co-chair

From: payload [mailto:payload-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Dave Satterlee=
 (Vocal)
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2018 6:17 PM
To: payload@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [payload] WGLC on draft-ietf-payload-tetra-00

Review Comments for:

 RTP Payload Format for the TETRA Audio Codec
 draft-ietf-payload-tetra-00

June 25, 2018 by
David Satterlee
David.Satterlee@vocal.com

The draft appears to be generally well specified and useful.

Review Comments:

In section 1 (Introduction) the document says "The payload format supports =
transmission of multiple channels..." . It is unclear to me what this means=
, and where it is specified in the draft.

There are a number of non-technical issues (grammatical etc.).  I believe t=
ype of review is for a later stage, but I can make some recommendations on =
that aspect as well if needed.




Regards,
Dave Satterlee
VOCAL Technologies



On 6/19/2018 1:17 AM, Roni Even (A) wrote:
WG,

We are starting WGLC for https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-payload-tet=
ra-00 . Please review the draft and send your comments to the list by July =
10th . If you read the draft but you have no comments, say so as well.

There were already some comments on the mailing list and we can consider th=
em as part of the WGLC comments

Roni Even (A) Payload WG co-chair


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Hi Dave,


The process is after addr=
essing the WGLC is to send the document for publication, so if you have mor=
e comments please send them now


Thanks<=
/p>

Roni Even



Payload WG co-chair<=
/o:p>


 <=
/p>





From: payload [mailto:payload-bounces@ietf.org]
On Behalf Of Dave Satterlee (Vocal)

Sent: Monday, June 25, 2018 6:17 PM

To: payload@ietf.org

Subject: Re: [payload] WGLC on draft-ietf-payload-tetra-00






 




Review Comments for:

 

 RTP Payload Format for the TETRA Audio Codec

 draft-ietf-payload-tetra-00

 

June 25, 2018 by

David Satterlee

David.Satterlee@vocal.com<=
br>
 

The draft appears to be generally well specified and useful.

 

Review Comments:



In section 1 (Introduction) the document says "The payload format supp=
orts transmission of multiple channels..." . It is unclear to me what =
this means, and where it is specified in the draft.



There are a number of non-technical issues (grammatical etc.).  I beli=
eve type of review is for a later stage, but I can make some recommendation=
s on that aspect as well if needed.






 


  

Regards,

Dave Satterlee

VOCAL Technologies







On 6/19/2018 1:17 AM, Roni Even (A) wrote:






WG,


 


We are starting WGLC for
https:/=
/tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-payload-tetra-00 . Please review the dr=
aft and send your comments to the list by July 10th . If you rea=
d the draft but you have no comments,
 say so as well.


 


There were already some comments on the=
 mailing list and we can consider them as part of the WGLC comments<=
o:p>


 


Roni Even (A) Payload WG co-chair




 






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From: "Roni Even (A)" 
To: "payload@ietf.org" 
Thread-Topic: WGLC on draft-ietf-payload-tetra-00 - my comments
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Hi,
The media type definition in section 7.1 does not include all fields from t=
he registration template. See section 5.6 in RFC6838 and similar payload WG=
 RFCs

Roni Even

From: payload [mailto:payload-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Roni Even (A)
Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2018 8:17 AM
To: payload@ietf.org
Subject: [payload] WGLC on draft-ietf-payload-tetra-00

WG,

We are starting WGLC for https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-payload-tet=
ra-00 . Please review the draft and send your comments to the list by July =
10th . If you read the draft but you have no comments, say so as well.

There were already some comments on the mailing list and we can consider th=
em as part of the WGLC comments

Roni Even (A) Payload WG co-chair

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Hi,


The media type definition=
 in section 7.1 does not include all fields from the registration template.=
 See section 5.6 in RFC6838 and similar payload WG RFCs



 <=
/p>

Roni Even



 <=
/p>





From: payload =
[mailto:payload-bounces@ietf.org]
On Behalf Of Roni Even (A)

Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2018 8:17 AM

To: payload@ietf.org

Subject: [payload] WGLC on draft-ietf-payload-tetra-00






 


WG,


 


We are starting WGLC for
https:/=
/tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-payload-tetra-00 . Please review the dr=
aft and send your comments to the list by July 10th . If you rea=
d the draft but you have no comments,
 say so as well.


 


There were already some comments on the=
 mailing list and we can consider them as part of the WGLC comments


 


Roni Even (A) Payload WG co-chair<=
/o:p>






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From: Jonathan Lennox 
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Cc: "payload@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-payload-vp9@ietf.org" 
To: Sergio Garcia Murillo 
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Subject: Re: [payload] VP9 frame markings: typo and questions
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Hi, Sergio =E2=80=94 sorry for not responding sooner.

> On May 8, 2018, at 12:12 PM, Sergio Garcia Murillo =
 wrote:
>=20
> Hi,
>=20
> I have some comments regarding the latest vp9 draft regarding the =
framemarking header information.
>=20
> I think it is confusing to have two fields on the text named "S"
>        0                   1                   2                   3
>        0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
>       =
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>       |  ID=3D2 |  L=3D2  |S|E|I|D|B|  T  |0|0|0|0|0|  S  |    =
TL0PICIDX  |
>       =
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>=20
> IMHO it would be better to rename S/T fields for spatial and temporal =
ids to TID/SID to be consistent with framemarking draft.
>=20
>        0                   1                   2                   3
>        0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
>       =
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>       |  ID=3D2 |  L=3D2  |S|E|I|D|B| TID |0|0|0|0|0| SID |    =
TL0PICIDX  |
>       =
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

Good idea.  I=E2=80=99ll convert them throughout.

>=20
> Also,  I have doubts about how to fill the I/D/B fields of the vp9 =
framemarking :
>=20
>    o  I: Independent Frame (1 bit) - MUST be 1 for frames that can be
>       decoded independent of temporally prior frames, e.g. =
intra-frame,
>       VPX keyframe, H.264 IDR [RFC6184 =
], H.265 IDR/CRA/BLA/RAP
>       [RFC7798 ]; otherwise MUST =
be 0.  Note that this bit only signals
>       temporal independence, so it can be 1 in spatial or quality
>       enhancement layers that depend on temporally co-located layers =
but
>       not temporally prior frames.
>    o  D: Discardable Frame (1 bit) - MUST be 1 for frames that can be
>       discarded, and still provide a decodable media stream; otherwise
>       MUST be 0.
>    o  B: Base Layer Sync (1 bit) - MUST be 1 if this frame only =
depends
>       on the base layer; otherwise MUST be 0.  If no scalability is
>       used, this MUST be 0.
>=20
> from the information of the VP9 payload description (and viceversa).
>=20
>    P: Inter-picture predicted frame.  When set to zero, the frame does
>       not utilize inter-picture prediction.  In this case, =
up-switching
>       to a current spatial layer's frame is possible from directly =
lower
>       spatial layer frame.  P SHOULD also be set to zero when encoding =
a
>       layer synchronization frame in response to an LRR
>       [I-D.ietf-avtext-lrr =
] message (see Section 5.4 =
).  =
When P is set to
>       zero, the T field (described below) MUST also be set to 0 (if
>       present).  Note that the P bit does not forbid intra-picture,
>       inter-layer prediction from earlier frames of the same picture, =
if
>       any.
>    U: Switching up point.  If this bit is set to 1 for the current
>       picture with temporal layer ID equal to T, then "switch up" to
>       a higher frame rate is possible as subsequent higher temporal
>       layer pictures will not depend on any picture before the
>       current picture (in coding order) with temporal layer ID
>       greater than T.
>    D: Inter-layer dependency used.  MUST be set to one if current
>       spatial layer S frame depends on spatial layer S-1 frame of the
>       same picture.  MUST only be set to zero if current spatial
>       layer S frame does not depend on spatial layer S-1 frame of the
>       same picture.  For the base layer frame (with S equal to 0),
>       this D bit MUST be set to zero.=20
>=20
> It seems that fm.I =3D !desc.P but I am not sure if fm.B=3D!desc.D =
(the definition doesn't seem to match). I guess that the frame marking B =
discardable flag could be retrieved from the scalability structure or =
frame dependencies (although I don't use it at the SFU). Could you =
confirm if those assumptions are correct, please? If so, couldn't this =
info be added to the draft for clarity?

fm.I =3D=3D !desc.P, yes.

The fm.B flag doesn=E2=80=99t directly correspond to anything in the VP9 =
header, but can indeed be inferred from the dependencies.

fm.D also doesn=E2=80=99t directly correspond to anything in the VP9 =
header.  It can be inferred from the scalability structure for =
non-flexible mode, but for flexible mode you either need to know future =
frames=E2=80=99 dependencies, or to parse codec headers to see whether =
the frame is stored as a reference.

> May main problem is with the description U: witching up point which I =
can't find a field in the framemarking information that could be usable =
to provide the information to the SFU.
>=20
> Am I missing something or should we add the U bit also to the vp9 =
frame marking info on the LID field?

This was discussed in the context of frame marking.  The consensus was =
that frame marking can only be used for streams for which the U bit =
would always be set to =E2=80=9Ctrue=E2=80=9D =E2=80=94 it doesn=E2=80=99t=
 support more complex temporal structures at all.  Thus, the value of =
the U bit can be inferred from the mere presence of the frame marking =
header extension.


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Hi, =
Sergio =E2=80=94 sorry for not responding sooner.

On May =
8, 2018, at 12:12 PM, Sergio Garcia Murillo <sergio.garcia.murillo@gmail.com> wrote:


 =20

    
 =20
  
Hi,
I have some comments regarding the =
latest vp9 draft regarding the
      framemarking header information.
I think it is =
confusing to have two fields on the text named "S"

    

    
       0                   1            =
       2                   3
       0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
      |  ID=3D2 |  L=3D2  |S|E|I|D|B|  T  |0|0|0|0|0|  S  |    TL0PICIDX =
 |
      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+


    

    IMHO it would be better to rename S/T fields for spatial and
    temporal ids to TID/SID to be consistent with framemarking draft.

    

    
       0                   1            =
       2                   3
       0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
      |  ID=3D2 |  L=3D2  |S|E|I|D|B| TID |0|0|0|0|0| SID |    TL0PICIDX  |
      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+


Good idea. =
 I=E2=80=99ll convert them throughout.


    

    Also,  I have doubts about how to fill the I/D/B fields of the =
vp9
    framemarking :

    

    
   o  I: Independent Frame (1 bit) - =
MUST be 1 for frames that can be
      decoded independent of temporally prior frames, e.g. intra-frame,
      VPX keyframe, H.264 IDR [RFC6184], H.265 =
IDR/CRA/BLA/RAP
      [RFC7798]; otherwise MUST be 0.  Note that this bit only =
signals
      temporal independence, so it can be 1 in spatial or quality
      enhancement layers that depend on temporally co-located layers but
      not temporally prior frames.
   o  D: Discardable Frame (1 bit) - MUST be 1 for frames that can be
      discarded, and still provide a decodable media stream; otherwise
      MUST be 0.
   o  B: Base Layer Sync (1 bit) - MUST be 1 if this frame only depends
      on the base layer; otherwise MUST be 0.  If no scalability is
      used, this MUST be 0.


    

    from the information of the VP9 payload description (and =
viceversa).

    

    
   P: Inter-picture predicted frame.  =
When set to zero, the frame does
      not utilize inter-picture prediction.  In this case, up-switching
      to a current spatial layer's frame is possible from directly lower
      spatial layer frame.  P SHOULD also be set to zero when encoding a
      layer synchronization frame in response to an LRR
      [I-D.ietf-avtext-lrr] message (see Section 5.4).  When P is set to
      zero, the T field (described below) MUST also be set to 0 (if
      present).  Note that the P bit does not forbid intra-picture,
      inter-layer prediction from earlier frames of the same picture, if
      any.
   U: Switching up point.  If this bit is set to 1 for the current
      picture with temporal layer ID equal to T, then "switch up" to
      a higher frame rate is possible as subsequent higher temporal
      layer pictures will not depend on any picture before the
      current picture (in coding order) with temporal layer ID
      greater than T.
   D: Inter-layer dependency used.  MUST be set to one if current
      spatial layer S frame depends on spatial layer S-1 frame of the
      same picture.  MUST only be set to zero if current spatial
      layer S frame does not depend on spatial layer S-1 frame of the
      same picture.  For the base layer frame (with S equal to 0),
      this D bit MUST be set to zero.=20


    

    It seems that fm.I =3D !desc.P but I am not sure if fm.B=3D!desc.D =
(the
    definition doesn't seem to match). I guess that the frame marking B
    discardable flag could be retrieved from the scalability structure
    or frame dependencies (although I don't use it at the SFU). Could
    you confirm if those assumptions are correct, please? If so,
    couldn't this info be added to the draft for clarity?

fm.I =
=3D=3D !desc.P, yes.

The fm.B flag =
doesn=E2=80=99t directly correspond to anything in the VP9 header, but =
can indeed be inferred from the dependencies.

fm.D also doesn=E2=80=99t directly correspond to =
anything in the VP9 header.  It can be inferred from the =
scalability structure for non-flexible mode, but for flexible mode you =
either need to know future frames=E2=80=99 dependencies, or to parse =
codec headers to see whether the frame is stored as a =
reference.


   =20
    May main problem is with the description U: witching up point which
    I can't find a field in the framemarking information that could be
    usable to provide the information to the SFU.

    

    Am I missing something or should we add the U bit also to the vp9
    frame marking info on the LID field?

This =
was discussed in the context of frame marking.  The consensus was =
that frame marking can only be used for streams for which the U bit =
would always be set to =E2=80=9Ctrue=E2=80=9D =E2=80=94 it doesn=E2=80=99t=
 support more complex temporal structures at all.  Thus, the value =
of the U bit can be inferred from the mere presence of the frame marking =
header extension.

=

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