From zhangyunfei@chinamobile.com Thu Apr 2 00:56:14 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ppsp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ppsp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29CA23A6BDF for ; Thu, 2 Apr 2009 00:56:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -87.88 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-87.88 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-4.631, BAYES_05=-1.11, CHARSET_FARAWAY_HEADER=3.2, CN_BODY_35=0.339, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_42=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_51=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_65=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_72=0.6, MANGLED_EMAIL=2.3, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_BASE64_TEXT=1.753, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RDNS_NONE=0.1, RELAY_IS_221=2.222, SARE_SUB_ENC_GB2312=1.345, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gb3soEL-hr3Q for ; Thu, 2 Apr 2009 00:56:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cmccmta (unknown [221.130.253.133]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0CEC3A68C3 for ; Thu, 2 Apr 2009 00:56:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from LENOVO-917FFE55 ([10.1.4.140]) by mail.chinamobile.com (Lotus Domino Release 6.5.5FP1) with SMTP id 2009040215570623-10993 ; Thu, 2 Apr 2009 15:57:06 +0800 Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 15:57:03 +0800 From: "zhangyunfei" To: "zongning 63316" , "Michael.G.Williams@nokia.com" References: <00b601c9ac95$168bb910$43a32b30$@org><49d1ed5f.07a0660a.5a7c.150 1@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <200904021556477815015@chinamobile.com> X-mailer: Foxmail 6, 2, 103, 20 [cn] Mime-Version: 1.0 X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on jtgsml01/servers/cmcc(Release 6.5.5FP1 | April 14, 2006) at 2009-04-02 15:57:06, Serialize by Router on cmccmta/servers/cmcc(Release 6.5.5FP1 | April 14, 2006) at 2009-04-02 15:57:12 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====003_Dragon871677686112_=====" Cc: "ppsp@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [ppsp] 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Hi,Micheal,
We are just narrow the s= cope and=20 doing drafting work.As a first attempt,we may narrow the problem=20 statement as somewhat like "supporting p2p streaming cache in mobile a= nd=20 wireless envrinment to solve the low access point scalablity,high transmiss= ion=20 cost by the limited access and backbone bandwidth".(This is not the fi= nal=20 statement,just a way to express this problem).So it may relate to mobility = issue.
However as stated by Nin= g,we=20 haven't got the point to discuss the solution yet. 
 
zhangyunfei=
2009-04-02
=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA zongning=20 63316
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4= =A3=BA=20 2009-04-01 08:58:25
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA=20 Michael.G.Williams@nokia.com
=B3=AD=CB=CD=A3=BA=20 ppsp@ietf.org
=D6=F7=CC=E2=A3=BA [ppsp] =BB=D8=B8=B4 :RE: PPPSP=20 Bar BOF minutes
 
Hi,  Michael,
 
The  consensus  from  bar  BoF  was  tha= t=20  the  Problem  Statement  needs  to  be=20  refined.  And  we  are  still  far  fro= m=20  discussing  solutions.
Thank  you.
 
BR,
Ning  Zong
 
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-----  =D4=AD=D3=CA=BC=FE  -----
=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB:  Michael.G.Williams@nokia.com
=C8=D5=C6=DA:  =D0=C7=C6=DA=B6=FE,  =C8=FD=D4=C2  31=C8= =D5,  2009  =CF=C2=CE=E710:37
=D6=F7=CC=E2:  RE:  [ppsp]  PPPSP  Bar  BOF=20  minutes
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB:  ron.even.tlv@gmail.com,  carlw@mcsr-lab= s.org,=20  ppsp@ietf.org
=B3=AD=CB=CD:  zongning@huawei.com
 
>  Hi  Roni,  Carl,
>  
>  Sorry  to  miss  this  bar  BoF.=20  Was  there  consensus  that  the  problem=20  
>  statement  for  the  transport  needs=20  to  include  mobility?  Was  there  a=20  
>  sense  (hinted  at  by  the  notes= =20  below)  that  the  solution  must  use=20  
>  MIP,  or  are  other  options=20  possible?
>  
>  ht= tp://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-zong-ppsp-reqs-00.txt=20  
>  doesn?t  seem  to  discuss  if=20  mobility  is  needed.
>  
>  Kind  Regards,
>  Michael
>  
>  =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F
>  From:  ppsp-bounces@ietf.org=20  [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org]  On  
>  Behalf  Of  ext  Roni  Even
>  Sent:  31  March,  2009  03:15
>  To:  carlw@mcsr-labs.org;  ppsp@ietf.org
>  Subject:  Re:  [ppsp]  PPPSP  Bar  = ;BOF=20  minutes
>  
>  Hi,
>  Small  comment  "  Mic:    Someone= =20  from  IAB"    the  someone  was  Gonzal= o=20  
>  Camarillo.Roni  Even
>  
>  From:  ppsp-bounces@ietf.org=20  [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org]  On  
>  Behalf  Of  Carl  Williams
>  Sent:  Tuesday,  March  24,  2009  = ;5:28=20  PM
>  To:  ppsp@ietf.org
>  Subject:  [ppsp]  PPPSP  Bar  BOF=20  minutes
>  
>  
>  Yunfei  asked  me  to  take  minut= es=20  of  the  PPSP  bar  bof  last  night. &= nbsp;=20  
>  Here  are  those  minutes:
>  
>  
>  
>  A  2nd  PPSP  bar  bof  was  = held=20  on  Monday  March  23,  2009  at  IETF =  74  
>  San  Francisco  meeting.    This  = is=20  a  follow-up  to  a  meeting  at  IETF =  
>  73  Minneapolis.    The  primary  = PPSP=20  (p2p  streaming  protocol)  bar  bof  
>  agenda  is  as  follows.    Any=20  suggestions  and  contributions  are  
>  welcome.    I  did  an  approx=20  count  of  110  attendees.
>  
>  Notes  by  Carl  Williams
>  
>  PPSP  Bar  BoF--  IETF  74,  San=20  Francisco
>  2000-2200  Monday,March  23,Continental  3.<= /DIV>
>  Mailing  list=A3=BAppsp@ietf.org <mailto:ppsp@ietf.= org >=20  
>  http://www.ietf.org/mail= man/listinfo/ppsp
>  Agenda
>  -  Introduction  (Yunfei  Zhang,  5=20  min)
>  -  Problem  Statement    (Yunfei=20  Zhang,  50  min)  draft-zhang-ppsp-
>  problem  statement-01
>   <http= ://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-zhang-ppsp-problem-
>  statement-01.txt >
>  -  Protocol  Requirements(Ning  Zong,  = 15=20  min)  draft-zong-ppsp-reqs-00
>   <ht= tp://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-zong-ppsp-reqs-00.txt=20 >
>  -  Protocol  Analysis  of  PPlive  = ;and=20  PPStream  by  Interent  Measurement  
>  (Yunfei  Zhang,15  min)
>  draft-zhang-ppsp-protocol-comparison-measurement-
>  00 <htt= p://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-zhang-ppsp-protocol-
>  comparison-measurement-00.txt >
>  
>  -  Introduction  of  Distributed  Servi= ces=20  Network,  a  vision  of  making  
>  PPSP  and  P2PSIP  into  reality  = =20    (Ning  Zong,  15')
>  
>    draft-zhang-ppsp-dsn-introduction-
>  00 <http://w= ww.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-zhang-ppsp-dsn-
>  introduction-00.txt >
>  
>  
>  
>  Problem  Statement  ?  Yunfei  Zhang
>  
>  Yunfei  presented  slides  on  problem =  statement.    He  noted  that  a  
>  revised  draft  since  Minneapolis  IET= F73=20  bar  bof.      Some  facts  he  
>  noted  were  that  10%  of  backbo= ne=20  traffic  at  major  Chinese  ISP  is  <= /DIV>
>  PPLive.    PPLive  has  110  milli= on=20  users,  2  million  concurrent  online  
>  peers.20-30%  is  outside  of  china=20  with  10-15%  in  us.    Yunfei  noted =  
>  that  other  streaming  services  from =  PPStream  had  70  million  users  
>  and  UUSee  had  1  million  concu= rrent=20  online  peers  during  Olympic  
>  games.    Finally  Yunfei  had  li= sted=20  many  other  P2P  streaming  vendors  
>  each  having  a  proprietary  streaming= =20  protocol  to  support.
>  
>  Yunfei  stated  that  signal  and=20  transport  is  the  focus  of  PPSP  to= =20  
>  solve  real  operational  problems.  =20  He  raised  the  question  should  
>  piracy  or  content  protection  be=20  part  of  work.
>  
>  There  were  many  benefits  of=20  standardization  that  can  be  had  by=20  
>  IETF  examining  this  area  of  w= ork=20  and  standardize  key  pieces.    A  
>  key  benefit  is  that  a  single =  client  can  access  multiple  services.  =20  
>  Yunfei  also  stated  that  operators=20  are  interested  in  this  as  it  is=20  
>  easier  to  cache  data  to  optim= ize=20  traffic  ?  including  mobile  
>  Internet.    For  Network  provider=20  the  open  standard  allows  interface  
>  with  CDN  systems.    Content=20  providers  developers  will  be  more  
>  likely  to  implement  an  open=20  standard,  applications  work  and  more  
>  services.
>  Mic:    Someone  from  IAB  says=20  that  the  Transport  Ads  weren=A1=AFt  abl= e  to=20  
>  make  the  Monday  evening  meeting=20  and  that  he  would  be  covering  the= =20  
>  meeting  for  IAB.
>  
>  There  were  some  comments  made=20  about  who  would  implement  PPSP  if=20  
>  IETF  were  to  go  ahead  with=20  standardization.
>  
>  Christer  Holmberg:    stated  that=20  standardize  and  then  
>  interoperable.    In  response  to=20  other  comments  if  there  is  a  
>  standard,  others  will  switch.   &nbs= p;It=20  has  happened  with  other  
>  technologies.    He  asked  the=20  question  if  Yunfei  was  in  contact  = ;with=20  
>  others.    Only  PPLive  and  UUSe= e=20  for  now  was  the  response.
>  
>  James  Seng:      Personal  opinio= n=20  is  that  technology  is  not  a  key=20  
>  differentiator.promotion  and  marketing  is= =20  a  key  differentiator.    
>  It  may  have  been  somewhat=20  important  early  but  not  so  important=20  now.
>  
>  David  Bryan:    Can  say  that=20  about  any  working  group.    Sometimes=20  
>  things  fail.    But  if  standard= ize,=20  people  may  do  it.
>  
>  Roni  Even:  Not  just  PPlive  is= sue.=20    Service  providers  can  work  in  
>  integrated  environment.    Will  help =  people  implement.
>  
>  Comment  was  also  made  by  some= one=20  that  he  had  know  of  other  
>  technologies  that  had  their  own=20  proprietary  solutions.    Then  you  
>  find  much  smaller  carriers  and=20  enterprises  ?  can=A1=AFt  roll  out  their= =20  
>  own  systems  for  legal  reasons  = ;and=20  other  reasons.    So  standard  is  
>  useful  and  eventually  others  implem= ent=20  it.
>  
>  Yunfei  continued  with  his  presentat= ion.=20    He  presented  the  need  to  
>  cache  P2P  streaming  content  between= =20  domains.    This  will  lower  the  
>  cross-network  traffic  and  provide  b= etter=20  user  performance.    Very  
>  difficult  with  multiple,  proprietary=20  protocols  which  change  quite  
>  often.
>  Yunfei  went  over  the  standardizatio= n=20  interactions.
>  
>  Question  was  asked  if  the  tal= k=20  was  about  live  streaming  or  static=20  
>  conetn.    What  is  the  concept =  of  a  chunks.      The  answer  w= as=20  that  it  
>  is  live  streaming.
>  
>  James  Seng:    rest  of  PPlive=20  streaming  is  mesh  architecture.    Not=20  
>  able  to  support  1  live  sessio= n;=20  PPlive  session  requires  multiple  
>  chunks.    From  10-20  peers  and= =20  it  does  it  in  form  of  chunks.
>  
>  Simion:    if  it  takes  20=20  peers  to  support  1  peer,  how  will= =20  network  
>  work?
>  James  Seng:    About  20%  of=20  peers  will  support  rest  of  80%
>  
>  When  using  PPlive;  5-6  minutes &nbs= p;no=20  acadmic  paper.    Max  latency  is  
>  90  seconds.  Helsinki  is  big  d= elay.=20    From  injection  to  peers  no  
>  matter  where  in  world  is  90=20  seconds.
>  
>  James  Seng:      metadata;  signa= ling=20  should  contain  metadata.
>  
>  Comment:      standardize  transport. &= nbsp;=20  Done  in  2nd  stage.    No  strawman=20  
>  proposal  at  this  moment.
>  
>  Response  by  chair  is  that  thi= s=20  is  TODO.    Evaluate  existing  
>  transport  protocols;  use  UDP  for=20  transport.
>  
>  Why  use  UDP  and  why  not  = ;rtp?=20    What  is  relation  to  other  workin= g=20  
>  groups.    P2PSIP,  ALTO,  and  P2= PRG=20  is  exploring  research  problems.    
>  ALTO  is  about  providing  data  = to=20  find  optimal  paths.    P2PSIP  
>  specifies  how  to  organize  DHT.
>  
>  PPSP  is  a  narrow  engineering  = task=20  for  an  existing  problem.    PP2P  
>  is  for  standardizing  the  exchanging= =20  information  in  a  streaming  
>  scenario.    May  resue  work  fro= m=20  other  groups.    This  work  may  be=20  
>  useful  to  other  groups.
>  
>  
>  Question:    why  is  IETF  right =  place?
>  
>  Response  by  chair:      IETF &nb= sp;is=20  right  place  for  standardizing  
>  interoperable  Internet-wide  protocols.  =20  We  have  a  group  of  
>  interested  people  who  have  deployed= =20  this  and  with  expertise  in  
>  P2P.      For  example,  streaming= =20  service  operators  (PPlive,  etc).    
>  Top  P2P  streaming  researchers  in=20  IETF.    Existing  P2P  standards  
>  contributors.    Operators  with  P2P=20  streaming  implementations  and  
>  developers  of  P2P  streaming  cache=20  implementations.
>  
>  Question:    try  to  transport  m= edia.=20    Audio/video  transport  working  
>  group  may  come  in  handy  here.= =20      Comment  was  made  that  the=20  co-chair  
>  of  AVT  was  in  the  audience &n= bsp;?=20  namely  Roni  Even.
>  
>  Chair:      early  to  discuss=20  what  will  be  done.    Standardization &nb= sp;on=20  
>  signaling  and  application  then  this= =20  would  be  the  area.
>  
>  Comment:    I  like  module  desig= n.=20    Here  things  are  compacted  into  a= =20  
>  big  module  ball;  things  should &nbs= p;be=20  in  sub-problems  that  you  are  
>  trying  to  solve;  little  confusing.<= /DIV>
>  
>  James  Seng:  Your  question  is  = good=20  for  open  discussion  section.
>  
>  Yunfei  concluded  his  presentation  o= n=20  problem  statement  by  stating  
>  that  the  goal  was  to  eventual= ly=20  form  a  working  group  within  IETF=20  
>  to  standardize  an  open  P2P=20  streaming  protocol.    Need  to  solve=20  
>  existing  operational  problem.    Ther= e=20  is  work  already  started  on  
>  PPSP  signaling  protocol  and  transpo= rt=20  protocol  is  under  
>  discussion.    Yunfei  stated  that=20  high-level  areas  of  deliverables  
>  are:  (1)  PPSP  architectural;  (2)=20  PPSP  signal  protocol;  (3)  PPSP  
>  Transport  Protocol.
>  
>  Comment:    There  is  confusion  = to=20  me  on  what  problem  to  be  solved=20  
>  and  what  solutions  may  be.
>  
>  Richard  Bennett:    Break  into=20  component  parts;  Should  deal  with  P2P=20  
>  transport  problem  which  is  being=20  dealt  with  in  LEDBAT  WG.)    
>  Richard  stated  that  another  problem= =20  is  to  deal  with  bw  constrained  
>  devices.  Separate  problem.
>  
>  
>  Henning  Schulzrinne  (Columbia  University)= :=20  It  is  obvious  you  have  
>  a  solution  in  mind;  let's  tal= k=20  about  problem  rather  than  a  solution.
>  
>  James  Seng  (Chair):    we  have =  no  solution  in  mind.    There  is=20  an  
>  understanding  of  streaming  protocols &nbs= p;in=20  use  today.    James  asked  if  
>  we  need  to  standardize  P2P=20  streaming  at  all?
>  
>  Henning  Schulzrinne  (Columbia  University)= :=20    It  is  not  know  yet  and  
>  we  need  to  define  who  is=20  taling  to  who  and  what  info  they =  are  
>  exchanging.
>  Comment:      should  divide  thin= gs=20  into  smaller  solutions  and  then  
>  compare  with  existing  solutions  (wh= at=20  we  can  reuse).
>  
>  
>  Jame  Seng:    Repeated  that  we =  are  not  pushing  a  solution  from  <= /DIV>
>  PPLive.    PPlive  has  yet  to=20  decide  to  summit  work  to  IETF  on =  
>  solution.    PPSP  may  reuse  som= e=20  work  like  RTSP,  some  from  AVT  
>  working  group,  etc=A1=AD.      H= e=20  mentioned  that  different  streams  are  
>  assembled  into  single  stream.
>  
>  
>  Presentation  was  made  on  PPSP=20  requirements  by  Ning  Zong.
>  
>  Ning  Zong  provided  a  diagram  = on=20  the  scope  of  PPSP  and  what  it=20  
>  does.    He  stated  that  the=20  basic  role  of  PPSP  is  to  define=20  a  
>  protocol  of  locating  and  transmitti= ng=20  real-time  data  efficiently  
>  from  multiple  sources  with  differen= t=20  pieces  in  P2P  environment.
>  
>  Comment  made  by  attendee  that  = ;we=20  should  have  started  with  this  
>  slide  in  problem  statement.    = That=20  this  diagram  is  clear  and  can  
>  see  things  much  better  on  sco= pe=20  of  PPSP.
>  
>  Comment:    I  still  don=A1=AFt  = see=20  major  difference  between  ppsp  and  file =  
>  sharing.  There  is  no  information=20  exchanged  for  specific  streams  
>  regarding  video  signals.  It  looks=20  to  me    like  a  file  sharing=20  protocol.
>  
>  Comment:    China  Mobile  wants  = to=20  solve  the  problem  of  controlling  
>  p2p  traffic  as  it  was  stated =  early  that  10%  of  traffic  comes  f= rom=20  
>  PPLive.    So,  what's  the  motiv= ation=20  of  having  p2p  here?
>  
>  Chair:    China  Mobile  has  laun= ched=20  mobile  TV,  which  may  have  
>  scalability  problems  and  we  look=20  to  P2P  to  solve  this.
>  
>  Yunfei  Zhang  presented  Protocol  ana= lysis=20  of  PPlive  and  PPStream  by  
>  Internet  Measurement.    Yunfei  state= d=20  there  were  questions  (1)  how  
>  to  evaluate  system  performance;  (2)= =20  what  the  performance  
>  limitations  are  under  current  syste= ms=20  models;  (3)  how  to  decrease  
>  the  pressure  on  the  network.  = =20  Yunfei  went  over  his  methodology  of=20  
>  his  measurements.    He  used  ce= rtain=20  reverse-engineering  methods  to  
>  analyze  its  working  principle.  =20  But  they  they  focused  mainly  on  <= /DIV>
>  PPlive  and  PPStream.
>  
>  Here  they  traced  a  standard=20  client,  captured  interactive  packets  
>  between  the  local  peer  and  ot= hers=20  with  packet  filtering  tools.      
>  They  traced  data  and  fed  it=20  into  the  dumping  tool.    Then  they= =20  
>  analyzed  the  time  sequences  of &nbs= p;the=20  protocol  messages.
>  
>  Yunfei  stated  that  the  analysis=20  items  were:    (1)  official  client=20  
>  trace;  (2)  system  topology  crawler;= =20  (3)  long  term  multi-online  
>  peers  probe;  (4)  P2P  streaming=20  client  measurement  in  mobile  IP;  
>  (5)  special  client  accessing  to=20  official  network  in  order  to  
>  evaluate  the  system  robustness  and =  optimize  the  protocol.
>  
>  Messages  were  described  for  PPlive =  Live  streaming  as  well  as  for  
>  PPlive  VOD.
>  
>  Yunfei  presented  a  summary  of  = ;his=20  analysis  conclusion  of  what  was  
>  common  ground  and  what  were=20  differences  in  key  areas  such  as  = chunk=20  
>  fetch  policy  as  well  as  buffe= r=20  aspect.    Such  an  analysis  allows  = us=20  
>  to  have  good  understanding  for=20  moving  forward  on  PPSP  scoping  work.
>  
>  
>  Comments  continued  on  Open=20  discussion:
>  
>  Comment:      We  need  to  n= arrow=20  down  the  scope  and  provide  an  
>  architectural  framework  and  diagram  = ;to=20  see  the  request  (who  is  
>  making  it  and  to  whom).  =20  What  is  the  result  of  this  reques= t=20  and  
>  what  are  all  the  interactions=20  coming  forth.
>  
>  Comment:    we  need  to  have=20  consensus  on  the  architecture  and  it=20  
>  must  be  clarified  more.     &nb= sp;It=20  must  be  made  into  different  
>  components.    Also  what  are  th= e=20  working  groups  working  on  the  
>  various  components  today.
>  
>  James  Seng:    Asked  question  i= f=20  we  had  consensus  to  create  a  form= al=20  
>  BOF  at  the  next  IETF  meeting =  to  present  the  problem  statement  and=20  
>  a  system  architecture  framework.
>  
>  More  than  half  of  the  room=20  raised  their  hands.    No  official  = count=20  
>  was  done  but  there  was  consen= sus=20  that  a  formal  IETF  BOF  should  be =  
>  held.
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F
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https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp
--=====003_Dragon871677686112_=====-- From abcdmatao@gmail.com Thu Apr 2 01:39:24 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ppsp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ppsp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69E993A6953 for ; Thu, 2 Apr 2009 01:39:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.258 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.258 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.340, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Y21fVDBmHEb0 for ; Thu, 2 Apr 2009 01:39:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qy0-f130.google.com (mail-qy0-f130.google.com [209.85.221.130]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFDFA3A68F9 for ; Thu, 2 Apr 2009 01:39:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: by qyk36 with SMTP id 36so832494qyk.29 for ; Thu, 02 Apr 2009 01:40:23 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=ycVLbo6Yp3RsemF4ZXinjH/t1qgBjkFytzSHO5m+PYY=; b=kTb88SXIEJtMj4kiIvG6CYeZWyEnjhbjZfjYYw4EV2Bu8qLYBGjtaIBLReoQt/KBcq nQNcEn8VSa64RjMSGGaBKsx+OB7xubwyIh1zEFl3KhSSHkqytX/dOBWgh5M77bKvL+RB keVrR3mFac2IgwZ19Kgip2glPD/9BLRrGdbvg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; b=g/LHnsYRZWTfbQ1eWQbiYu7OwGpiH/A+rIMMg4KgtSbBPmlzRH+sG3f0onNG6klGJ6 br0kmRfI2R4sl2qfOh0d/4nIIZ+2T2x6YgPuWc6YHnXtmRBtUQCF7yOBZ9BRApsyqQGV /mUq+3SflTZOS2vCeo7zuiOYV8Sho2j15tmJU= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.220.96.139 with SMTP id h11mr4626414vcn.23.1238661623459; Thu, 02 Apr 2009 01:40:23 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 16:40:23 +0800 Message-ID: <99978d7d0904020140r34ad5ea1me8e6262436a6d33f@mail.gmail.com> From: Tao Ma To: byfang@126.com, ppsp@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e64608d610302a04668e62e2 Cc: zhangch@bupt.edu.cn Subject: Re: [ppsp] ***SPAM*** 6.683 (5) Re: ppsp Digest, Vol 6, Issue 20 (byfang) X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 08:39:24 -0000 --0016e64608d610302a04668e62e2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, I think DSN is from the view of telecom operator. But it is a so-called "open garden" model to Internet services, which reflects the merge of telecom and Internet. P2P is a technology used to reduce cost and support flexible applications in the future. DSN-based services include the current P2P services but with more managability and business concerns. Tao Ma Beijing University of Posts and Telecommunications, Mobile life and new media lab 2009/3/20 > Send ppsp mailing list submissions to > ppsp@ietf.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > ppsp-request@ietf.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > ppsp-owner@ietf.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of ppsp digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. ***SPAM*** 6.683 (5) Re: ppsp Digest, Vol 6, Issue 20 (byfang) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 11:10:21 +0800 > From: "byfang" > Subject: [ppsp] ***SPAM*** 6.683 (5) Re: ppsp Digest, Vol 6, Issue 20 > To: "ppsp" > Message-ID: <200903201110168286725@126.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" > > What views on the DSN architecture? Internet or telecom operators(ITU-T)? > From the draft i feel it is application-aware, so it is a walled garden? > Right? > > warm regard. > ChinaUnicom > > Fang bingyi > > > 2009-03-20 > > > > byfang > > > > > ???? ppsp-request > ????? 2009-03-20 03:01:17 > ???? ppsp > ??? > ??? ppsp Digest, Vol 6, Issue 20 > > Send ppsp mailing list submissions to > ppsp@ietf.org > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > ppsp-request@ietf.org > You can reach the person managing the list at > ppsp-owner@ietf.org > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of ppsp digest..." > Today's Topics: > 1. questions about dsn introduction draft (??) > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 02:53:02 +0800 > From: ?? > Subject: [ppsp] questions about dsn introduction draft > To: zhangyunfei@chinamobile.com > Cc: ppsp@ietf.org, ??? , > standardMINE@googlegroups.com > Message-ID: > <99978d7d0903191153s45003ef8rfbfed94ec6df21de@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > Hi, > I feel interested in the DSN introduction draft. I think DSN is very > important and promising, but I have some questions about this draft, and I > would appreciate the answer and help. > 1 in the Figure 1-dsn architecture, there is distributed cache in the > service enablersublayer.As far as I know, now cache is > application-specific, > it speaks the specific protocol according to the application. But here > cache > are separated from the application sub-layer and makes the applications > transparent. If the application is a Bittorrent file sharing, how can the > distributed cache serve this application or how can it cache the files ? > 2 How can the DSN reflect the manageable and operatable > characteristics?Does > it mean the same thing as manageable and operatable P2P?or what > differences? > 3 If DSN wants to manage the P2P applications, does it also consider the > way > to control P2P traffic like ALTO WG? > 4 In section 5 "multiple DSN implementations", what does this mean? > Different carriers or protocols? > Best regards, > Tao Ma, > Beijing University of Post and Telecommunications, Mobile life and new > media > Lab > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ppsp/attachments/20090320/51ecdc22/attachment.htm > > > ------------------------------ > _______________________________________________ > ppsp mailing list > ppsp@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp > End of ppsp Digest, Vol 6, Issue 20 > *********************************** > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ppsp/attachments/20090320/ef1d8c75/attachment.htm > > > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: not available > Type: image/jpeg > Size: 11517 bytes > Desc: not available > Url : < > http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ppsp/attachments/20090320/ef1d8c75/attachment.jpeg > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > ppsp mailing list > ppsp@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp > > > End of ppsp Digest, Vol 6, Issue 22 > *********************************** > --0016e64608d610302a04668e62e2 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi,
=A0=A0 I think DSN is from the view of telecom operator. But it is a= so-called "open garden" model to Internet services, which reflec= ts the merge of telecom and Internet. P2P is a technology used to reduce co= st and support flexible applications in the future. DSN-based services incl= ude the current P2P services but with more managability and business concer= ns.
Tao Ma
Beijing University of Posts and Telecommunications, Mobile life a= nd new media lab

2009/3/20 <ppsp-request@ietf.org>
Send ppsp mailing= list submissions to
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0ppsp@ietf.org

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=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0ppsp-request@ietf.= org

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=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0ppsp-owner@ietf.org<= /a>

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
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Today's Topics:

=A0 1. ***SPAM*** 6.683 (5) Re: ppsp Digest, Vol 6, Issue 20 (byfang)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 11:10:21 +0800
From: "byfang" <byfang@126.c= om>
Subject: [ppsp] ***SPAM*** 6.683 (5) Re: ppsp Digest, Vol 6, Issue 20
To: "ppsp" <ppsp@ietf.org= >
Message-ID: <2009032011= 10168286725@126.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"gb2312"

What views on the DSN architecture? Internet or telecom operators(ITU-T)? >From the draft i feel it is application-aware, so it is a walled garden? = =A0 Right?

warm regard.
ChinaUnicom

Fang bingyi


2009-03-20



byfang




???? ppsp-request
????? 2009-03-20 =A003:01:17
???? ppsp
???
??? ppsp Digest, Vol 6, Issue 20

Send ppsp mailing list submissions to
ppsp@ietf.org
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
ht= tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
ppsp-request@ietf.org
You can reach the person managing the list at
ppsp-owner@ietf.org
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of ppsp digest..."
Today's Topics:
=A0 1. questions about dsn introduction draft (??)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 02:53:02 +0800
From: ?? <abcdmatao@gmail.com= >
Subject: [ppsp] questions about dsn introduction draft
To: zhangyunfei@chinamobile.= com
Cc: ppsp@ietf.org, ??? <zhangch@bupt.edu.cn>,
standardMINE@googlegroups.= com
Message-ID:
<99978d7d0903191153s45003ef8rfbfed94ec6df21de@mail.gmail.com>=
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1"
Hi,
=A0 =A0 I feel interested in the DSN introduction draft. I think DSN is ve= ry
important and promising, but I have some questions about this draft, and I<= br> would appreciate the answer and help.
1 in the Figure 1-dsn architecture, there is distributed cache in the
service enablersublayer.As far as I know, now cache is application-specific= ,
it speaks the specific protocol according to the application. But here cach= e
are separated from the application sub-layer and makes the applications
transparent. If the application is a Bittorrent file sharing, how can the distributed cache serve this application or how can it cache the files ? 2 How can the DSN reflect the manageable and operatable characteristics?Doe= s
it mean the same thing as manageable and operatable P2P?or what differences= ?
3 If DSN wants to manage the P2P applications, does it also consider the wa= y
to control P2P traffic like ALTO WG?
4 In section 5 "multiple DSN implementations", what does this mea= n?
Different carriers or protocols?
Best regards,
Tao Ma,
Beijing University of Post and Telecommunications, Mobile life and new medi= a
Lab
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id 11CFB3A6A9A for ; Thu, 2 Apr 2009 02:28:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from LENOVO-917FFE55 ([10.1.4.140]) by mail.chinamobile.com (Lotus Domino Release 6.5.5FP1) with SMTP id 2009040217290840-13405 ; Thu, 2 Apr 2009 17:29:08 +0800 Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 17:29:07 +0800 From: "Yunfei Zhang" To: "Tao Ma" , "byfang@126.com" , "ppsp@ietf.org" References: <99978d7d0904020140r34ad5ea1me8e6262436a6d33f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200904021729068599072@chinamobile.com> Organization: China Mobile,R&D X-mailer: Foxmail 6, 2, 103, 20 [cn] Mime-Version: 1.0 X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on jtgsml01/servers/cmcc(Release 6.5.5FP1 | April 14, 2006) at 2009-04-02 17:29:08, Serialize by Router on cmccmta/servers/cmcc(Release 6.5.5FP1 | April 14, 2006) at 2009-04-02 17:29:13, Serialize complete at 2009-04-02 17:29:13 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Cc: "zhangch@bupt.edu.cn" Subject: Re: [ppsp] ***SPAM*** 6.683 (5) Re: ppsp Digest, Vol 6, Issue 20(byfang) 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b2YgcHBzcCBEaWdlc3QsIFZvbCA2LCBJc3N1ZSAyMg0KPiAqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioq KioqKioqKioqKioqKg0KPg0KDQpfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fXw0KcHBzcCBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCnBwc3BAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCmh0dHBzOi8vd3d3 LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vcHBzcA0KDQo= From abcdmatao@gmail.com Fri Apr 3 00:29:55 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ppsp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ppsp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF7BC3A6845 for ; Fri, 3 Apr 2009 00:29:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.65 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.65 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-2.461, BAYES_20=-0.74, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_37=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_44=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_62=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_82=0.6, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vOSY-rSBkOQc for ; Fri, 3 Apr 2009 00:29:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qy0-f130.google.com (mail-qy0-f130.google.com [209.85.221.130]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1246A3A69A8 for ; Fri, 3 Apr 2009 00:29:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: by qyk36 with SMTP id 36so1709540qyk.29 for ; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 00:30:56 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=o88VTFCdBBxJumm+n15IbGV39Qhjigon2lju5K3cUEk=; b=uafS7Ncj63eU4EC/rlcvjeNmCzdi6gDC/4oToC7Vk0B5el1tdJAZI469hc/CduqVwP b/WMWgSj22h5Cr5259yLof/X8JG8Gh/kWtTSO7sSZe4dUve+7/LL8EeSHFNxqANz84hN UU0kdpoSuFo9KC1G4h7BwlZWb43G4DrqxBqK0= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; b=tRogqj/r9hAvnDxp7pogUKvkCX/XS5s9KaSSiZH4VR+BmMGed+QLxHX7UEystGibaP Ui+E1xeG2hd4h3GHoTHSB36gQrteHXgUGyEomwJCBhUwFwapP9QXGeE5bdzHFSP2IKJR DfvrP976C4U+EIF3mdhTDcs6yl0mwl7PsR6x0= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.220.98.65 with SMTP id p1mr1271727vcn.103.1238743855796; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 00:30:55 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <200904021729068599072@chinamobile.com> References: <99978d7d0904020140r34ad5ea1me8e6262436a6d33f@mail.gmail.com> <200904021729068599072@chinamobile.com> Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 15:30:55 +0800 Message-ID: <99978d7d0904030030w4e43a45cq77794683257fc909@mail.gmail.com> From: Tao Ma To: Yunfei Zhang , ppsp@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e64710927e11be0466a18797 Cc: =?GB2312?B?1cW0urrs?= Subject: Re: [ppsp] ***SPAM*** 6.683 (5) Re: ppsp Digest, Vol 6, Issue 20(byfang) X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2009 07:29:56 -0000 --0016e64710927e11be0466a18797 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=GB2312 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Zhang, I agree, the reliability, management and commercial model concerns pla= y an important role in the future Internet including mobile Internet. IMHO, i= t will be a manageble and reliable distributed computing environment. Hope PPSP will become a standard that can provides the excellent streaming services in the current Internet and reflect the trend of future development of Internet. Best regard! Tao Ma Beijing University of Posts and Telecommunications, Mobile life and new media lab 2009/4/2 Yunfei Zhang > I think a better term to express Tao's "open garden"is "future internet > with better realibility,management and commerical model concerns".As we > know,many attempts are doing in this direction(including GENI which > discusses the commercial model problem by routing economics). > DSN is trying another means to realize this,i.e.,borrowring some telecom > ideas/requirements into internet field,e.g.,how to make the network and > service with higher realiablity(In DSN,service realiability may be define= d > as 99.999% and we have to do more work to make it from 99.9%(like gmail) = to > 99.999%). > As for management and commerical model concerns,we also have some higher > requirements than current Internet and we develop DSN based on these > considerations. > > > > > Best regards! > Sincerely yours, > Yunfei > 2009-04-02 > ***************************************************** > > Yunfei Zhang, Ph.D. > > R&D, CHINA MOBILE COMMUNICATIONS CORPORATION > > Tel: +86 10 158016966688 ext. 3247 > > Fax: +86 10 63601087 > > MOBILE: 1360-1032-119 > > ***************************************************** > > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BATao Ma > =B7=A2=CB=CD=C8=D5=C6=DA=A3=BA2009-04-02 16:53:50 > =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BAbyfang@126.com; ppsp@ietf.org > =B3=AD=CB=CD=A3=BAzhangch@bupt.edu.cn > =D6=F7=CC=E2=A3=BARe: [ppsp] ***SPAM*** 6.683 (5) Re: ppsp Digest, Vol 6,= Issue 20(byfang) > > Hi, > I think DSN is from the view of telecom operator. But it is a so-called > "open garden" model to Internet services, which reflects the merge of > telecom and Internet. P2P is a technology used to reduce cost and support > flexible applications in the future. DSN-based services include the curre= nt > P2P services but with more managability and business concerns. > Tao Ma > Beijing University of Posts and Telecommunications, Mobile life and new > media lab > > 2009/3/20 > > > Send ppsp mailing list submissions to > > ppsp@ietf.org > > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > > ppsp-request@ietf.org > > > > You can reach the person managing the list at > > ppsp-owner@ietf.org > > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > > than "Re: Contents of ppsp digest..." > > > > > > Today's Topics: > > > > 1. ***SPAM*** 6.683 (5) Re: ppsp Digest, Vol 6, Issue 20 (byfang) > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Message: 1 > > Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 11:10:21 +0800 > > From: "byfang" > > Subject: [ppsp] ***SPAM*** 6.683 (5) Re: ppsp Digest, Vol 6, Issue 20 > > To: "ppsp" > > Message-ID: <200903201110168286725@126.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"gb2312" > > > > What views on the DSN architecture? Internet or telecom operators(ITU-T= )? > > From the draft i feel it is application-aware, so it is a walled garden= ? > > Right? > > > > warm regard. > > ChinaUnicom > > > > Fang bingyi > > > > > > 2009-03-20 > > > > > > > > byfang > > > > > > > > > > ???? ppsp-request > > ????? 2009-03-20 03:01:17 > > ???? ppsp > > ??? > > ??? ppsp Digest, Vol 6, Issue 20 > > > > Send ppsp mailing list submissions to > > ppsp@ietf.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > > ppsp-request@ietf.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > > ppsp-owner@ietf.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > > than "Re: Contents of ppsp digest..." > > Today's Topics: > > 1. questions about dsn introduction draft (??) > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > > Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 02:53:02 +0800 > > From: ?? > > Subject: [ppsp] questions about dsn introduction draft > > To: zhangyunfei@chinamobile.com > > Cc: ppsp@ietf.org, ??? , > > standardMINE@googlegroups.com > > Message-ID: > > <99978d7d0903191153s45003ef8rfbfed94ec6df21de@mail.gmail.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" > > Hi, > > I feel interested in the DSN introduction draft. I think DSN is ver= y > > important and promising, but I have some questions about this draft, an= d > I > > would appreciate the answer and help. > > 1 in the Figure 1-dsn architecture, there is distributed cache in the > > service enablersublayer.As far as I know, now cache is > > application-specific, > > it speaks the specific protocol according to the application. But here > > cache > > are separated from the application sub-layer and makes the applications > > transparent. If the application is a Bittorrent file sharing, how can t= he > > distributed cache serve this application or how can it cache the files = ? > > 2 How can the DSN reflect the manageable and operatable > > characteristics?Does > > it mean the same thing as manageable and operatable P2P?or what > > differences? > > 3 If DSN wants to manage the P2P applications, does it also consider th= e > > way > > to control P2P traffic like ALTO WG? > > 4 In section 5 "multiple DSN implementations", what does this mean? > > Different carriers or protocols? > > Best regards, > > Tao Ma, > > Beijing University of Post and Telecommunications, Mobile life and new > > media > > Lab > > -------------- next part -------------- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: < > > > http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ppsp/attachments/20090320/51ecdc22/a= ttachment.htm > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > > ppsp mailing list > > ppsp@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp > > End of ppsp Digest, Vol 6, Issue 20 > > *********************************** > > -------------- next part -------------- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: < > > > http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ppsp/attachments/20090320/ef1d8c75/a= ttachment.htm > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > > Name: not available > > Type: image/jpeg > > Size: 11517 bytes > > Desc: not available > > Url : < > > > http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ppsp/attachments/20090320/ef1d8c75/a= ttachment.jpeg > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > ppsp mailing list > > ppsp@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp > > > > > > End of ppsp Digest, Vol 6, Issue 22 > > *********************************** > > > > _______________________________________________ > ppsp mailing list > ppsp@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp > > --0016e64710927e11be0466a18797 Content-Type: text/html; charset=GB2312 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Zhang,
     I agree, the reliability, managemen= t and commercial model concerns play an important role in the future Intern= et including mobile Internet. IMHO, it will be a manageble and reliable&nbs= p; distributed computing environment. Hope PPSP will become a standard that= can provides the excellent streaming services  in the current Interne= t and reflect the trend of future development of Internet.
     Best regard!
Tao Ma
Beijing University of Po= sts and Telecommunications, Mobile life and new media lab

2009/4/2 Yunfei Zhang <zhangyunfei@chinamobile.com>=
I think a better = term to express Tao's "open garden"is "future internet w= ith better realibility,management and commerical model concerns".As we= know,many attempts are doing in this direction(including GENI which discus= ses the commercial model problem by routing economics).
DSN is trying another means to realize this,i.e.,borrowring some telecom id= eas/requirements into internet field,e.g.,how to make the network and servi= ce with higher realiablity(In DSN,service realiability may be defined as 99= .999% and we have to do more work to make it from 99.9%(like gmail) to 99.9= 99%).
As for management and commerical model concerns,we also have some higher re= quirements than current Internet and we develop DSN based on these consider= ations.




 Best regards!
 Sincerely yours,
 Yunfei
     2009-04-02
*****************************************************

Yunfei Zhang, Ph.D.

R&D, CHINA MOBILE COMMUNICATIONS CORPORATION

Tel: +86 10 158016966688 ext. 3247

Fax: +86 10 63601087

MOBILE: 1360-1032-119

*****************************************************


-------------------------------------------------------------
=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BATao Ma
=B7=A2=CB=CD=C8=D5=C6=DA=A3=BA2009-04-02 16:53:50
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BAbyfang@126.com; ppsp@ietf.org
=B3=AD=CB=CD=A3=BAzhangch@bupt.edu.c= n
=D6=F7=CC=E2=A3=BARe: [ppsp] ***SPAM*** 6.683 (5) Re: ppsp Digest, Vol 6,Is= sue 20(byfang)

Hi,
  I think DSN is from the view of telecom operator. But it is a so-ca= lled
"open garden" model to Internet services, which reflects the merg= e of
telecom and Internet. P2P is a technology used to reduce cost and support flexible applications in the future. DSN-based services include the current=
P2P services but with more managability and business concerns.
Tao Ma
Beijing University of Posts and Telecommunications, Mobile life and new
media lab

2009/3/20 <ppsp-request@ietf.or= g>

> Send ppsp mailing list submissions to
>        ppsp@ietf.= org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>        https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >        pp= sp-request@ietf.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>        ppsp= -owner@ietf.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of ppsp digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. ***SPAM*** 6.683 (5) Re: ppsp Digest, Vol 6, Issue 20 (byfan= g)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------=
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 11:10:21 +0800
> From: "byfang" <byfang@= 126.com>
> Subject: [ppsp] ***SPAM*** 6.683 (5) Re: ppsp Digest, Vol 6, Issue 20<= br> > To: "ppsp" <ppsp@ietf.or= g>
> Message-ID: <20090= 3201110168286725@126.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"gb2312"
>
> What views on the DSN architecture? Internet or telecom operators(ITU-= T)?
> From the draft i feel it is application-aware, so it is a walled garde= n?
> Right?
>
> warm regard.
> ChinaUnicom
>
> Fang bingyi
>
>
> 2009-03-20
>
>
>
> byfang
>
>
>
>
> ???? ppsp-request
> ????? 2009-03-20  03:01:17
> ???? ppsp
> ???
> ??? ppsp Digest, Vol 6, Issue 20
>
> Send ppsp mailing list submissions to
> ppsp@ietf.org
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > ppsp-request@ietf.org
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> ppsp-owner@ietf.org
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of ppsp digest..."
> Today's Topics:
>   1. questions about dsn introduction draft (??)
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------=
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 02:53:02 +0800
> From: ?? <abcdmatao@gmail.co= m>
> Subject: [ppsp] questions about dsn introduction draft
> To: zhangyunfei@chinamo= bile.com
> Cc: ppsp@ietf.org, ??? <zhangch@bupt.edu.cn>,
> standardMINE@googlegr= oups.com
> Message-ID:
> <99978d7d0903191153s45003ef8rfbfed94ec6df21de@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1"
> Hi,
>     I feel interested in the DSN introduction draft. I think= DSN is very
> important and promising, but I have some questions about this draft, a= nd I
> would appreciate the answer and help.
> 1 in the Figure 1-dsn architecture, there is distributed cache in the<= br> > service enablersublayer.As far as I know, now cache is
> application-specific,
> it speaks the specific protocol according to the application. But here=
> cache
> are separated from the application sub-layer and makes the application= s
> transparent. If the application is a Bittorrent file sharing, how can = the
> distributed cache serve this application or how can it cache the files= ?
> 2 How can the DSN reflect the manageable and operatable
> characteristics?Does
> it mean the same thing as manageable and operatable P2P?or what
> differences?
> 3 If DSN wants to manage the P2P applications, does it also consider t= he
> way
> to control P2P traffic like ALTO WG?
> 4 In section 5 "multiple DSN implementations", what does thi= s mean?
> Different carriers or protocols?
> Best regards,
> Tao Ma,
> Beijing University of Post and Telecommunications, Mobile life and new=
> media
> Lab
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <
> http://www.ietf.org/mail-arc= hive/web/ppsp/attachments/20090320/51ecdc22/attachment.htm
> >
> ------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> ppsp mailing list
> ppsp@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp
> End of ppsp Digest, Vol 6, Issue 20
> ***********************************
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <
> http://www.ietf.org/mail-arc= hive/web/ppsp/attachments/20090320/ef1d8c75/attachment.htm
> >
> -------------- next part --------------
> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
> Name: not available
> Type: image/jpeg
> Size: 11517 bytes
> Desc: not available
> Url : <
> http://www.ietf.org/mail-ar= chive/web/ppsp/attachments/20090320/ef1d8c75/attachment.jpeg
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> ppsp mailing list
> ppsp@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp
>
>
> End of ppsp Digest, Vol 6, Issue 22
> ***********************************
>

_______________________________________________
ppsp mailing list
ppsp@ietf.org
ht= tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp


--0016e64710927e11be0466a18797-- From abcdmatao@gmail.com Mon Apr 6 19:36:28 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ppsp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ppsp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7F143A694E for ; Mon, 6 Apr 2009 19:36:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.41 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.41 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.992, BAYES_50=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_37=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_44=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_62=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_82=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LlpxFn6ToVgn for ; Mon, 6 Apr 2009 19:36:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qy0-f110.google.com (mail-qy0-f110.google.com [209.85.221.110]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C4473A687E for ; Mon, 6 Apr 2009 19:36:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by qyk8 with SMTP id 8so344048qyk.29 for ; Mon, 06 Apr 2009 19:37:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=d1xggBorqJTr+yoxd0QxafdEiW8RDnQM/7l5nWSG6dQ=; b=U8cbWA1GIYPnqRo7UKthqiGQSGZaXQAdvWS4zq58J2sFiZNRl7hjGnCEF1besGYc69 NJCWyQmRumXFY36kojeQgh7pa7XZWf7OyvZzVfnL9OdVZJVa/O4Y9LBeje+k+CFOazBk 67ctP/EERHL9sP4Mprwh8PG22YH8TaW08EigM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; b=NC/IlOEB6GOKRymF8FC3050T5Mgdeht9zI+A9tCMsVnPtbSX7kTiPZ4Eg3Fnul191K BIBrbcMK/1R+cU7f+NHNBGCoavZAieRN6Qu8/ybhvuViHyoeb1APUv2394T9Nj4Rsq0X kLXA81HTPqSfIZIxvVJya1Za9A11dEnmnXDus= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.220.92.79 with SMTP id q15mr4907889vcm.11.1239071845463; Mon, 06 Apr 2009 19:37:25 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 10:37:24 +0800 Message-ID: <99978d7d0904061937r76ac63c6k7e037bfd39eb2e6e@mail.gmail.com> From: Tao Ma To: byfang@126.com, ppsp@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e646983c3385c00466ede53e Cc: zhangch@bupt.edu.cn, standardMINE@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [ppsp] ***SPAM*** 8.464 (5) Re: ppsp Digest, Vol 7, Issue 4 (byfang) X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 07 Apr 2009 02:36:28 -0000 --0016e646983c3385c00466ede53e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=GB2312 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Fang=A3=AC I think DSN can be considered as the core network architecture of future Internet, which will not be totally transparent or content-unaware. Distributed technologies are introduced to reduce costs and improve flexibility. I feel what you mean is DSN is a distributed environment in current IP network. But my opinion is DSN has much to do with future network.. My 2 cents Best regards Tao Ma 7,April,2009 Beijing University of Posts and Telecommunications, Mobile life and new media lab 2009/4/4 > Send ppsp mailing list submissions to > ppsp@ietf.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > ppsp-request@ietf.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > ppsp-owner@ietf.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of ppsp digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. ***SPAM*** 8.464 (5) Re: ppsp Digest, Vol 7, Issue 4 (byfang) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 17:39:38 +0800 > From: "byfang" > Subject: [ppsp] ***SPAM*** 8.464 (5) Re: ppsp Digest, Vol 7, Issue 4 > To: "ppsp" > Message-ID: <200904041739351258427@126.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"gb2312" > > But the Internet is transparent e2e or just ?dumb?, it is > application-unaware. And User consent and control resides in the endpoint= s. > Service availability is what matters to users and not QoS. QoS is good as > long as network congestion is avoided. > I feel the supernodes in the DSN network are the control core, which has > ample Qos definitions and guarantees for the network service. > So the DSN should be an architecture, mechanisms and technologies for > enabling an efficient and operational distributed system in a large-scale= IP > network environment, taking account of content-awareness in the design of > network convergence and intelligent network resource management for > supporting both managed and unmanaged IP multimedia delivery services. > And the DSN network is devoted to who deploy them, "open" is limited. > 2 cents. > warm regard. > 2009-03-23 > byfang > > > 2009-04-04 > > > > byfang > > > > > ???? ppsp-request > ????? 2009-04-04 03:01:44 > ???? ppsp > ??? > ??? ppsp Digest, Vol 7, Issue 4 > > Send ppsp mailing list submissions to > ppsp@ietf.org > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > ppsp-request@ietf.org > You can reach the person managing the list at > ppsp-owner@ietf.org > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of ppsp digest..." > Today's Topics: > 1. Re: ***SPAM*** 6.683 (5) Re: ppsp Digest, Vol 6, Issue > 20(byfang) (Tao Ma) > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 15:30:55 +0800 > From: Tao Ma > Subject: Re: [ppsp] ***SPAM*** 6.683 (5) Re: ppsp Digest, Vol 6, Issue > 20(byfang) > To: Yunfei Zhang , ppsp@ietf.org > Cc: ??? > Message-ID: > <99978d7d0904030030w4e43a45cq77794683257fc909@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"gb2312" > Dear Zhang, > I agree, the reliability, management and commercial model concerns pl= ay > an important role in the future Internet including mobile Internet. IMHO, > it > will be a manageble and reliable distributed computing environment. Hope > PPSP will become a standard that can provides the excellent streaming > services in the current Internet and reflect the trend of future > development of Internet. > Best regard! > Tao Ma > Beijing University of Posts and Telecommunications, Mobile life and new > media lab > 2009/4/2 Yunfei Zhang > > I think a better term to express Tao's "open garden"is "future internet > > with better realibility,management and commerical model concerns".As we > > know,many attempts are doing in this direction(including GENI which > > discusses the commercial model problem by routing economics). > > DSN is trying another means to realize this,i.e.,borrowring some teleco= m > > ideas/requirements into internet field,e.g.,how to make the network and > > service with higher realiablity(In DSN,service realiability may be > defined > > as 99.999% and we have to do more work to make it from 99.9%(like gmail= ) > to > > 99.999%). > > As for management and commerical model concerns,we also have some highe= r > > requirements than current Internet and we develop DSN based on these > > considerations. > > > > > > > > > > Best regards! > > Sincerely yours, > > Yunfei > > 2009-04-02 > > ***************************************************** > > > > Yunfei Zhang, Ph.D. > > > > R&D, CHINA MOBILE COMMUNICATIONS CORPORATION > > > > Tel: +86 10 158016966688 ext. 3247 > > > > Fax: +86 10 63601087 > > > > MOBILE: 1360-1032-119 > > > > ***************************************************** > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > > ????Tao Ma > > ?????2009-04-02 16:53:50 > > ????byfang@126.com; ppsp@ietf.org > > ???zhangch@bupt.edu.cn > > ???Re: [ppsp] ***SPAM*** 6.683 (5) Re: ppsp Digest, Vol 6,Issue > 20(byfang) > > > > Hi, > > I think DSN is from the view of telecom operator. But it is a so-call= ed > > "open garden" model to Internet services, which reflects the merge of > > telecom and Internet. P2P is a technology used to reduce cost and suppo= rt > > flexible applications in the future. DSN-based services include the > current > > P2P services but with more managability and business concerns. > > Tao Ma > > Beijing University of Posts and Telecommunications, Mobile life and new > > media lab > > > > 2009/3/20 > > > > > Send ppsp mailing list submissions to > > > ppsp@ietf.org > > > > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp > > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > > > ppsp-request@ietf.org > > > > > > You can reach the person managing the list at > > > ppsp-owner@ietf.org > > > > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > > > than "Re: Contents of ppsp digest..." > > > > > > > > > Today's Topics: > > > > > > 1. ***SPAM*** 6.683 (5) Re: ppsp Digest, Vol 6, Issue 20 (byfang) > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------= - > > > > > > Message: 1 > > > Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 11:10:21 +0800 > > > From: "byfang" > > > Subject: [ppsp] ***SPAM*** 6.683 (5) Re: ppsp Digest, Vol 6, Issue 20 > > > To: "ppsp" > > > Message-ID: <200903201110168286725@126.com> > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"gb2312" > > > > > > What views on the DSN architecture? Internet or telecom > operators(ITU-T)? > > > From the draft i feel it is application-aware, so it is a walled > garden? > > > Right? > > > > > > warm regard. > > > ChinaUnicom > > > > > > Fang bingyi > > > > > > > > > 2009-03-20 > > > > > > > > > > > > byfang > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ???? ppsp-request > > > ????? 2009-03-20 03:01:17 > > > ???? ppsp > > > ??? > > > ??? ppsp Digest, Vol 6, Issue 20 > > > > > > Send ppsp mailing list submissions to > > > ppsp@ietf.org > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp > > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > > > ppsp-request@ietf.org > > > You can reach the person managing the list at > > > ppsp-owner@ietf.org > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > > > than "Re: Contents of ppsp digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > > 1. questions about dsn introduction draft (??) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------= - > > > Message: 1 > > > Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 02:53:02 +0800 > > > From: ?? > > > Subject: [ppsp] questions about dsn introduction draft > > > To: zhangyunfei@chinamobile.com > > > Cc: ppsp@ietf.org, ??? , > > > standardMINE@googlegroups.com > > > Message-ID: > > > <99978d7d0903191153s45003ef8rfbfed94ec6df21de@mail.gmail.com> > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" > > > Hi, > > > I feel interested in the DSN introduction draft. I think DSN is > very > > > important and promising, but I have some questions about this draft, > and > > I > > > would appreciate the answer and help. > > > 1 in the Figure 1-dsn architecture, there is distributed cache in the > > > service enablersublayer.As far as I know, now cache is > > > application-specific, > > > it speaks the specific protocol according to the application. But her= e > > > cache > > > are separated from the application sub-layer and makes the applicatio= ns > > > transparent. If the application is a Bittorrent file sharing, how can > the > > > distributed cache serve this application or how can it cache the file= s > ? > > > 2 How can the DSN reflect the manageable and operatable > > > characteristics?Does > > > it mean the same thing as manageable and operatable P2P?or what > > > differences? > > > 3 If DSN wants to manage the P2P applications, does it also consider > the > > > way > > > to control P2P traffic like ALTO WG? > > > 4 In section 5 "multiple DSN implementations", what does this mean? > > > Different carriers or protocols? > > > Best regards, > > > Tao Ma, > > > Beijing University of Post and Telecommunications, Mobile life and ne= w > > > media > > > Lab > > > -------------- next part -------------- > > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > > URL: < > > > > > > http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ppsp/attachments/20090320/51ecdc22/a= ttachment.htm > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > _______________________________________________ > > > ppsp mailing list > > > ppsp@ietf.org > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp > > > End of ppsp Digest, Vol 6, Issue 20 > > > *********************************** > > > -------------- next part -------------- > > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > > URL: < > > > > > > http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ppsp/attachments/20090320/ef1d8c75/a= ttachment.htm > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > > > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > > > Name: not available > > > Type: image/jpeg > > > Size: 11517 bytes > > > Desc: not available > > > Url : < > > > > > > http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ppsp/attachments/20090320/ef1d8c75/a= ttachment.jpeg > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > ppsp mailing list > > > ppsp@ietf.org > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp > > > > > > > > > End of ppsp Digest, Vol 6, Issue 22 > > > *********************************** > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > ppsp mailing list > > ppsp@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ppsp/attachments/20090403/0cce6129/a= ttachment.htm > > > ------------------------------ > _______________________________________________ > ppsp mailing list > ppsp@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp > End of ppsp Digest, Vol 7, Issue 4 > ********************************** > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ppsp/attachments/20090404/fc15233c/a= ttachment.htm > > > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: not available > Type: image/jpeg > Size: 11517 bytes > Desc: not available > Url : < > http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ppsp/attachments/20090404/fc15233c/a= ttachment.jpeg > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > ppsp mailing list > ppsp@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp > > > End of ppsp Digest, Vol 7, Issue 5 > ********************************** > --0016e646983c3385c00466ede53e Content-Type: text/html; charset=GB2312 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dear Fang=A3=AC

   I think DSN can= be considered as the core network architecture of future Internet, which will not be totally transparent or c= ontent-unaware. Distributed technologies are introduced to reduce costs and improve flexibi= lity. I feel what you mean is DSN is a distributed environment in current IP netw= ork. But my opinion is DSN has much to do with future network..

My 2 cents

Best regards

Tao Ma

7,April,2009

Beijing University of Posts and Telecommunications, Mobile life and new media lab



2009/4/4 <ppsp-request@ietf.org>
<= blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 2= 04, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"> Send ppsp mailing list submissions to
       ppsp@ietf.org<= /a>

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
       https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
       ppsp-r= equest@ietf.org

You can reach the person managing the list at
       ppsp-own= er@ietf.org

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of ppsp digest..."


Today's Topics:

  1. ***SPAM*** 8.464 (5) Re: ppsp Digest, Vol 7, Issue 4 (byfang)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 17:39:38 +0800
From: "byfang" <byfang@126.c= om>
Subject: [ppsp] ***SPAM*** 8.464 (5) Re: ppsp Digest, Vol 7, Issue 4
To: "ppsp" <ppsp@ietf.org= >
Message-ID: <2009040417= 39351258427@126.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"gb2312"

But the Internet is transparent e2e or just ?dumb?, it is application-unawa= re. And User consent and control resides in the endpoints. Service availabi= lity is what matters to users and not QoS. QoS is good as long as network c= ongestion is avoided.
I feel the supernodes in the DSN network are the control core, which has am= ple Qos definitions and guarantees for the network service.
So the DSN should be an architecture, mechanisms and technologies for enabl= ing an efficient and operational distributed system in a large-scale IP net= work environment, taking account of content-awareness in the design of netw= ork convergence and intelligent network resource management for supporting = both managed and unmanaged IP multimedia delivery services.
And the DSN network is devoted to who deploy them, "open" is limi= ted.
2 cents.
warm regard.
2009-03-23
byfang


2009-04-04



byfang




???? ppsp-request
????? 2009-04-04  03:01:44
???? ppsp
???
??? ppsp Digest, Vol 7, Issue 4

Send ppsp mailing list submissions to
ppsp@ietf.org
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
ht= tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
ppsp-request@ietf.org
You can reach the person managing the list at
ppsp-owner@ietf.org
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of ppsp digest..."
Today's Topics:
  1. Re: ***SPAM*** 6.683 (5) Re: ppsp Digest, Vol 6, Issue
     20(byfang) (Tao Ma)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 15:30:55 +0800
From: Tao Ma <abcdmatao@gmail.com= >
Subject: Re: [ppsp] ***SPAM*** 6.683 (5) Re: ppsp Digest, Vol 6, Issue
20(byfang)
To: Yunfei Zhang <zhangyu= nfei@chinamobile.com>, ppsp@ietf.or= g
Cc: ??? <zhangch@bupt.edu.cn&= gt;
Message-ID:
<99978d7d0904030030w4e43a45cq77794683257fc909@mail.gmail.com>=
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"gb2312"
Dear Zhang,
    I agree, the reliability, management and commercial model co= ncerns play
an important role in the future Internet including mobile Internet. IMHO, i= t
will be a manageble and reliable  distributed computing environment. H= ope
PPSP will become a standard that can provides the excellent streaming
services  in the current Internet and reflect the trend of future
development of Internet.
    Best regard!
Tao Ma
Beijing University of Posts and Telecommunications, Mobile life and new
media lab
2009/4/2 Yunfei Zhang <zh= angyunfei@chinamobile.com>
> I think a better term to express Tao's "open garden"is &= quot;future internet
> with better realibility,management and commerical model concerns"= .As we
> know,many attempts are doing in this direction(including GENI which > discusses the commercial model problem by routing economics).
> DSN is trying another means to realize this,i.e.,borrowring some telec= om
> ideas/requirements into internet field,e.g.,how to make the network an= d
> service with higher realiablity(In DSN,service realiability may be def= ined
> as 99.999% and we have to do more work to make it from 99.9%(like gmai= l) to
> 99.999%).
> As for management and commerical model concerns,we also have some high= er
> requirements than current Internet and we develop DSN based on these > considerations.
>
>
>
>
>  Best regards!
>  Sincerely yours,
>  Yunfei
>      2009-04-02
> *****************************************************
>
> Yunfei Zhang, Ph.D.
>
> R&D, CHINA MOBILE COMMUNICATIONS CORPORATION
>
> Tel: +86 10 158016966688 ext. 3247
>
> Fax: +86 10 63601087
>
> MOBILE: 1360-1032-119
>
> *****************************************************
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------
> ????Tao Ma
> ?????2009-04-02 16:53:50
> ????byfang@126.com; ppsp@ietf.org
> ???zhangch@bupt.edu.cn
> ???Re: [ppsp] ***SPAM*** 6.683 (5) Re: ppsp Digest, Vol 6,Issue 20(byf= ang)
>
> Hi,
>   I think DSN is from the view of telecom operator. But it is a s= o-called
> "open garden" model to Internet services, which reflects the= merge of
> telecom and Internet. P2P is a technology used to reduce cost and supp= ort
> flexible applications in the future. DSN-based services include the cu= rrent
> P2P services but with more managability and business concerns.
> Tao Ma
> Beijing University of Posts and Telecommunications, Mobile life and ne= w
> media lab
>
> 2009/3/20 <ppsp-request@ie= tf.org>
>
> > Send ppsp mailing list submissions to
> >        ppsp@= ietf.org
> >
> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> >        https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pp= sp
> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help'= to
> >        ppsp-request@ietf.org
> >
> > You can reach the person managing the list at
> >        ppsp-owner@ietf.org
> >
> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specif= ic
> > than "Re: Contents of ppsp digest..."
> >
> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> >   1. ***SPAM*** 6.683 (5) Re: ppsp Digest, Vol 6, Issue 20 (= byfang)
> >
> >
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------= -----
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 11:10:21 +0800
> > From: "byfang" <by= fang@126.com>
> > Subject: [ppsp] ***SPAM*** 6.683 (5) Re: ppsp Digest, Vol 6, Issu= e 20
> > To: "ppsp" <ppsp@ie= tf.org>
> > Message-ID: <= 200903201110168286725@126.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"gb2312"
> >
> > What views on the DSN architecture? Internet or telecom operators= (ITU-T)?
> > From the draft i feel it is application-aware, so it is a walled = garden?
> > Right?
> >
> > warm regard.
> > ChinaUnicom
> >
> > Fang bingyi
> >
> >
> > 2009-03-20
> >
> >
> >
> > byfang
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ???? ppsp-request
> > ????? 2009-03-20  03:01:17
> > ???? ppsp
> > ???
> > ??? ppsp Digest, Vol 6, Issue 20
> >
> > Send ppsp mailing list submissions to
> > ppsp@ietf.org
> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp
> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help'= to
> > ppsp-request@ietf.org
> > You can reach the person managing the list at
> > ppsp-owner@ietf.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specif= ic
> > than "Re: Contents of ppsp digest..."
> > Today's Topics:
> >   1. questions about dsn introduction draft (??)
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------= -----
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 02:53:02 +0800
> > From: ?? <abcdmatao@gma= il.com>
> > Subject: [ppsp] questions about dsn introduction draft
> > To: zhangyunfei@ch= inamobile.com
> > Cc: ppsp@ietf.org, ??? <<= a href=3D"mailto:zhangch@bupt.edu.cn">zhangch@bupt.edu.cn>,
> > standardMINE@goo= glegroups.com
> > Message-ID:
> > <99978d7d0903191153s45003ef8rfbfed94ec6df21de@mail.gmail.c= om>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1"
> > Hi,
> >     I feel interested in the DSN introduction draft. I = think DSN is very
> > important and promising, but I have some questions about this dra= ft, and
> I
> > would appreciate the answer and help.
> > 1 in the Figure 1-dsn architecture, there is distributed cache in= the
> > service enablersublayer.As far as I know, now cache is
> > application-specific,
> > it speaks the specific protocol according to the application. But= here
> > cache
> > are separated from the application sub-layer and makes the applic= ations
> > transparent. If the application is a Bittorrent file sharing, how= can the
> > distributed cache serve this application or how can it cache the = files ?
> > 2 How can the DSN reflect the manageable and operatable
> > characteristics?Does
> > it mean the same thing as manageable and operatable P2P?or what > > differences?
> > 3 If DSN wants to manage the P2P applications, does it also consi= der the
> > way
> > to control P2P traffic like ALTO WG?
> > 4 In section 5 "multiple DSN implementations", what doe= s this mean?
> > Different carriers or protocols?
> > Best regards,
> > Tao Ma,
> > Beijing University of Post and Telecommunications, Mobile life an= d new
> > media
> > Lab
> > -------------- next part --------------
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> > ------------------------------
> > _______________________________________________
> > ppsp mailing list
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> > End of ppsp Digest, Vol 6, Issue 20
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> > ------------------------------
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> > ppsp mailing list
> > ppsp@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp
> >
> >
> > End of ppsp Digest, Vol 6, Issue 22
> > ***********************************
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> ppsp mailing list
> ppsp@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp
>
>
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End of ppsp Digest, Vol 7, Issue 5
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X//Z --=====002_Dragon712362567777_=====-- From softgear@etri.re.kr Thu Apr 30 00:47:53 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ppsp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ppsp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 357143A6C5F for ; Thu, 30 Apr 2009 00:47:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.295 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.295 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.155, BAYES_50=0.001, HELO_MISMATCH_INFO=1.448, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UuuQSwpoYtJW for ; Thu, 30 Apr 2009 00:47:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from email2.etri.info (email2.etri.re.kr [129.254.16.132]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D94383A6C79 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 2009 00:47:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SOFTGEAR ([129.254.232.20]) by email2.etri.info with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 30 Apr 2009 16:49:13 +0900 From: "Softgear Ko" To: Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 16:49:17 +0900 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_004A_01C9C9B3.99C58F00" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: AcnJaCiXqCWWwLbIS5i5cZwWfhVPqg== Content-Language: ko X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 Apr 2009 07:49:13.0111 (UTC) FILETIME=[275F5270:01C9C968] Subject: [ppsp] FYI. Network Coordinate Systems related papers X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 07:47:53 -0000 여러 부분으로 구성된 MIME 형식의 메시지입니다. ------=_NextPart_000_004A_01C9C9B3.99C58F00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello. In P2P Streaming, finding closest or best peer (relay) selection is important. A straight forward way for this is measuring RTT to all other peers (or relay). But, this method is too costly and not scale because there are too many peers. There are some papers which focus on network coordinate system. These papers makes a coordinate system from latency, hop count, DNS information, or geographic information. This coordinate help a client to find the closest or best relay quickly. I introduces some papers of them. [IDMaps] An architecture for a global Internet host distance estimation service, 1999 [PIC] Predicting Internet Network Distance with Coordinates-Based Approaches, 2002 [VIVALDI] A Decentralized Network Coordinate System, 2004 Do you know any already deployed system which uses network coordinate system or the best coordinate system for P2P Streaming? - Softgear Ko ------=_NextPart_000_004A_01C9C9B3.99C58F00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hello.

 

In P2P Streaming, finding = closest or best peer (relay) selection is important. A straight forward way for this is measuring RTT to all other peers (or relay). But, this method is too = costly and not scale because there are too many peers.

There are some papers which = focus on network coordinate system. These papers makes a coordinate system from latency, = hop count, DNS information, or geographic information. This coordinate help = a client to find the closest or best relay quickly.

I introduces some papers of = them.

[IDMaps] An architecture for a = global Internet host distance estimation service, 1999

[PIC] Predicting Internet = Network Distance with Coordinates-Based Approaches, 2002

[VIVALDI] A Decentralized = Network Coordinate System, 2004

 

Do you know any already deployed = system which uses network coordinate system or the best coordinate system for P2P = Streaming?

 

 

-       = Softgear Ko

 

------=_NextPart_000_004A_01C9C9B3.99C58F00-- From zhangyunfei@chinamobile.com Thu Apr 30 01:00:02 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ppsp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ppsp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F62E3A6C97 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 2009 01:00:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -92.407 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-92.407 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.256, BAYES_50=0.001, HOST_MISMATCH_COM=0.311, J_CHICKENPOX_32=0.6, MIME_BASE64_TEXT=1.753, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RELAY_IS_221=2.222, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id C0MZ4LuTFcX5 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 2009 01:00:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cmccmta (cmccmta.chinamobile.com [221.130.253.133]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13D123A6844 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 2009 01:00:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from LENOVO-917FFE55 ([10.1.4.174]) by mail.chinamobile.com (Lotus Domino Release 6.5.5FP1) with SMTP id 2009043016011367-11413 ; Thu, 30 Apr 2009 16:01:13 +0800 Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 16:01:14 +0800 From: "Yunfei Zhang" To: "Softgear Ko" , "ppsp@ietf.org" References: Message-ID: <200904301601146564090@chinamobile.com> Organization: China Mobile,R&D X-mailer: Foxmail 6, 2, 103, 20 [cn] Mime-Version: 1.0 X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on jtgsml01/servers/cmcc(Release 6.5.5FP1 | April 14, 2006) at 2009-04-30 16:01:13, Serialize by Router on cmccmta/servers/cmcc(Release 6.5.5FP1 | April 14, 2006) at 2009-04-30 16:01:25, Serialize complete at 2009-04-30 16:01:25 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Subject: Re: [ppsp] FYI. Network Coordinate Systems related papers X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 08:00:02 -0000 SGksU29mdGdlYXKjrA0KICAgICBUaGlzIGlzIGEgZ29vZCB0b3BpYy5UbyB0aGUgYmVzdCBvZiBt eSBrbm93bGVkZ2UsdGhlcmUgaXMgbm8gcHJhY3RpY2FsIHN5c3RlbXMgdG8gdXNlIGNvb3JkaW5h dGVzIHRvIGhlbHAgcGVlciBzZWxlY3Rpb24uSG93ZXZlciBJIGRvIHRoaW5rIHRoaXMgaXMgYSB0 cmVuZCB3ZSBtYXkgcGF5IG1vcmUgYXR0ZW50aW9uIHRvLg0KICAgICBJIGhhdmUgYW4gSUVURiBk cmFmdCB0byBkZXNjcmliZSBUMk1DLCBhIG1ldGhvZCB0byBjbHVzdGVyIHBlZXJzIG1vcmUgZWZm aWNpZW50bHkgdGhhbiBWSVZBTERJIGFuZCBHTlAuU2hhcmVkIHdpdGggdGhlIHNhbWUgaWRlYSB3 aXRoIHlvdSx3ZSB0aGluayB0aGlzIGNhbiBiZSB1c2VkIGluIFBQU1AgcGVlciBzZWxlY3Rpb24u WW91IG1heSByZWZlciB0byBodHRwOi8vdG9vbHMuaWV0Zi5vcmcvaHRtbC9kcmFmdC16aGFuZy1h bHRvLXRyYWNlcm91dGUtMDIgZm9yIG1vcmUgZGV0YWlsLlRoYW5rcy4NCiAgDQogICAgICAgICAg DQogICAgICAgIA0KDQogIEJlc3QgcmVnYXJkcyENCiAgU2luY2VyZWx5IHlvdXJzLA0KICBZdW5m ZWkgDQogICAgICAyMDA5LTA0LTMwDQoqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioq KioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKg0KDQpZdW5mZWkgWmhhbmcsIFBoLkQuDQoNClImRCwgQ0hJTkEg TU9CSUxFIENPTU1VTklDQVRJT05TIENPUlBPUkFUSU9ODQoNClRlbDogKzg2IDEwIDE1ODAxNjk2 NjY4OCBleHQuIDMyNDcNCg0KRmF4OiArODYgMTAgNjM2MDEwODcNCg0KTU9CSUxFOiAxMzYwLTEw MzItMTE5DQoNCioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioq KioqKioqDQoNCg0KLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLQ0Kt6K8/sjLo7pTb2Z0Z2VhciBLbw0Kt6LLzcjVxtqjujIwMDktMDQt MzAgMTU6NDk6MzQNCsrVvP7Iy6O6cHBzcEBpZXRmLm9yZw0Ks63LzaO6DQrW98zio7pbcHBzcF0g RllJLiBOZXR3b3JrIENvb3JkaW5hdGUgU3lzdGVtcyByZWxhdGVkIHBhcGVycw0KDQpIZWxsby4N Cg0KIA0KDQpJbiBQMlAgU3RyZWFtaW5nLCBmaW5kaW5nIGNsb3Nlc3Qgb3IgYmVzdCBwZWVyIChy ZWxheSkgc2VsZWN0aW9uIGlzDQppbXBvcnRhbnQuIEEgc3RyYWlnaHQgZm9yd2FyZCB3YXkgZm9y IHRoaXMgaXMgbWVhc3VyaW5nIFJUVCB0byBhbGwgb3RoZXINCnBlZXJzIChvciByZWxheSkuIEJ1 dCwgdGhpcyBtZXRob2QgaXMgdG9vIGNvc3RseSBhbmQgbm90IHNjYWxlIGJlY2F1c2UgdGhlcmUN CmFyZSB0b28gbWFueSBwZWVycy4gDQoNClRoZXJlIGFyZSBzb21lIHBhcGVycyB3aGljaCBmb2N1 cyBvbiBuZXR3b3JrIGNvb3JkaW5hdGUgc3lzdGVtLiBUaGVzZSBwYXBlcnMNCm1ha2VzIGEgY29v cmRpbmF0ZSBzeXN0ZW0gZnJvbSBsYXRlbmN5LCBob3AgY291bnQsIEROUyBpbmZvcm1hdGlvbiwg b3INCmdlb2dyYXBoaWMgaW5mb3JtYXRpb24uIFRoaXMgY29vcmRpbmF0ZSBoZWxwIGEgY2xpZW50 IHRvIGZpbmQgdGhlIGNsb3Nlc3Qgb3INCmJlc3QgcmVsYXkgcXVpY2tseS4NCg0KSSBpbnRyb2R1 Y2VzIHNvbWUgcGFwZXJzIG9mIHRoZW0uDQoNCltJRE1hcHNdIEFuIGFyY2hpdGVjdHVyZSBmb3Ig YSBnbG9iYWwgSW50ZXJuZXQgaG9zdCBkaXN0YW5jZSBlc3RpbWF0aW9uDQpzZXJ2aWNlLCAxOTk5 DQoNCltQSUNdIFByZWRpY3RpbmcgSW50ZXJuZXQgTmV0d29yayBEaXN0YW5jZSB3aXRoIENvb3Jk aW5hdGVzLUJhc2VkDQpBcHByb2FjaGVzLCAyMDAyDQoNCltWSVZBTERJXSBBIERlY2VudHJhbGl6 ZWQgTmV0d29yayBDb29yZGluYXRlIFN5c3RlbSwgMjAwNA0KDQogDQoNCkRvIHlvdSBrbm93IGFu eSBhbHJlYWR5IGRlcGxveWVkIHN5c3RlbSB3aGljaCB1c2VzIG5ldHdvcmsgY29vcmRpbmF0ZSBz eXN0ZW0NCm9yIHRoZSBiZXN0IGNvb3JkaW5hdGUgc3lzdGVtIGZvciBQMlAgU3RyZWFtaW5nPw0K DQogDQoNCiANCg0KLSAgICAgICBTb2Z0Z2VhciBLbw0KDQogDQoNCg0KX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCnBwc3AgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQpwcHNw QGlldGYub3JnDQpodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL3Bwc3ANCg0K From softgear@etri.re.kr Thu Apr 30 02:01:32 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ppsp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ppsp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D09E3A6903 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 2009 02:01:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.761 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.761 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.423, BAYES_05=-1.11, HELO_MISMATCH_INFO=1.448] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pKj6RWh+i2+h for ; Thu, 30 Apr 2009 02:01:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from email2.etri.info (email2.etri.re.kr [129.254.16.132]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A96BF3A6F40 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 2009 02:00:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SOFTGEAR ([129.254.232.20]) by email2.etri.info with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 30 Apr 2009 18:02:11 +0900 From: "Softgear Ko" To: References: In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 18:02:15 +0900 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: AcnJaCiXqCWWwLbIS5i5cZwWfhVPqgACcRww Content-Language: ko X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 Apr 2009 09:02:11.0295 (UTC) FILETIME=[58F92EF0:01C9C972] Subject: Re: [ppsp] FYI. Network Coordinate Systems related papers X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 09:01:32 -0000 Sorry, There is typo. [IDMaps] An architecture for a global Internet host distance estimation service, 1999. [GNP] Predicting Internet Network Distance with Coordinates-Based Approaches, 2002. [PIC] Practical Internet coordinates for distance estimation, 2004. [VIVALDI] A Decentralized Network Coordinate System, 2004. :-) >From: ppsp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Softgear Ko >Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 4:49 PM >To: ppsp@ietf.org >Subject: [ppsp] FYI. Network Coordinate Systems related papers > >Hello. > >In P2P Streaming, finding closest or best peer (relay) selection is important. A straight forward >way for this is measuring RTT to all other peers (or relay). But, this method is too costly and not >scale because there are too many peers. >There are some papers which focus on network coordinate system. These papers makes a coordinate >system from latency, hop count, DNS information, or geographic information. This coordinate help a >client to find the closest or best relay quickly. >I introduces some papers of them. > [IDMaps] An architecture for a global Internet host distance estimation service, 1999 > [PIC] Predicting Internet Network Distance with Coordinates-Based Approaches, 2002 > [VIVALDI] A Decentralized Network Coordinate System, 2004 > >Do you know any already deployed system which uses network coordinate system or the best coordinate >system for P2P Streaming? > > >- Softgear Ko