From zhangyunfei@chinamobile.com Sun Jan 16 06:55:53 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ppsp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ppsp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46DDC3A6B7F for ; Sun, 16 Jan 2011 06:55:53 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -95.525 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-95.525 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.048, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_32=0.6, MIME_BASE64_TEXT=1.753, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RELAY_IS_221=2.222, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1dQe-hS9IrXW for ; Sun, 16 Jan 2011 06:55:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from hqmta.chinamobile.com (hqmta.chinamobile.com [221.130.253.171]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B21C3A6BD7 for ; Sun, 16 Jan 2011 06:55:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from hqmta.chinamobile.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost.imsstest.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDDA9168C8 for ; Sun, 16 Jan 2011 22:58:14 +0800 (CST) Received: from mail.chinamobile.com (unknown [10.1.28.22]) by hqmta.chinamobile.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C39C8168C6 for ; Sun, 16 Jan 2011 22:58:14 +0800 (CST) Received: from zyf ([10.1.5.3]) by mail.chinamobile.com (Lotus Domino Release 6.5.6) with ESMTP id 2011011622581110-15360 ; Sun, 16 Jan 2011 22:58:11 +0800 Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2011 22:58:09 +0800 From: "zhangyunfei" To: "ppsp@ietf.org" References: <20110116145052.E996D3A6E53@core3.amsl.com> Message-ID: <201101162258095467203@chinamobile.com> X-mailer: Foxmail 6, 2, 103, 20 [cn] Mime-Version: 1.0 X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on jtgsml01/servers/cmcc(Release 6.5.6|March 06, 2007) at 2011-01-16 22:58:11, Serialize by Router on jtgsml01/servers/cmcc(Release 6.5.6|March 06, 2007) at 2011-01-16 22:58:13, Serialize complete at 2011-01-16 22:58:13 Content-Type: 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OyAmbmJzcDsgJm5ic3A7ICZuYnNwOyAmbmJzcDsgJm5ic3A7ICZuYnNwOyANCiZuYnNwOyAmbmJz cDsgJm5ic3A7ICZuYnNwOyAmbmJzcDsgJm5ic3A7ICZuYnNwOyAmbmJzcDsgJm5ic3A7ICZuYnNw OyAmbmJzcDsgDQombmJzcDsgJm5ic3A7ICZuYnNwOyAmbmJzcDsgJm5ic3A7ICZuYnNwOzwvRElW Pg0KPERJVj4mbmJzcDs8L0RJVj4NCjxESVY+Jm5ic3A7PC9ESVY+DQo8RElWPlRoZSAmbmJzcDtJ RVRGICZuYnNwO1NlY3JldGFyaWF0LjwvRElWPg0KPERJVj4mbmJzcDs8L0RJVj4NCjxESVY+Jm5i c3A7PC9ESVY+DQo8RElWPiZuYnNwOzwvRElWPjwvRk9OVD48L0RJVj48L0JPRFk+PC9IVE1MPg0K --=====003_Dragon654837355045_=====-- From zongning@huawei.com Sun Jan 16 16:43:36 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ppsp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ppsp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E394A3A6BA2 for ; Sun, 16 Jan 2011 16:43:36 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -100.173 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-100.173 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.357, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RDNS_NONE=0.1, SARE_SUB_ENC_UTF8=0.152, SARE_SUB_OBFU_Q1=0.227, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2AG8qi0Y4tiP for ; Sun, 16 Jan 2011 16:43:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from szxga01-in.huawei.com (unknown [119.145.14.64]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2AE93A67C0 for ; Sun, 16 Jan 2011 16:43:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from huawei.com (szxga05-in [172.24.2.49]) by szxga05-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0LF500F7R64MBT@szxga05-in.huawei.com> for ppsp@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Jan 2011 08:45:58 +0800 (CST) Received: from huawei.com ([172.24.2.119]) by szxga05-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0LF50086I64LKH@szxga05-in.huawei.com> for ppsp@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Jan 2011 08:45:58 +0800 (CST) Received: from z63316a ([10.138.41.69]) by szxml04-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0LF500ACV64G75@szxml04-in.huawei.com> for ppsp@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Jan 2011 08:45:56 +0800 (CST) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2011 08:45:52 +0800 From: Ning Zong To: ppsp@ietf.org Message-id: <005b01cbb5df$e4cf5ac0$ae6e1040$@com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-language: zh-cn Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Thread-index: Acu13xS2liznTtGvSFWCokUHTRfp+gAAGduw Subject: [ppsp] =?utf-8?b?6L2s5Y+ROiBOZXcgVmVyc2lvbiBOb3RpZmljYXRpb24gZm9y?= =?utf-8?q?_draft-ietf-ppsp-reqs-01?= X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2011 00:43:37 -0000 Hi, Folks, A new version of PPSP requirements has been uploaded to IETF repository = as following link: http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-ppsp-reqs-01.txt The main changes reflecting the PPSP session discussion and minutes of = IETF 79th are: 1) Add new item PPSP.REQ-9 to adopt the requirement of IP address = change report from peer; 2) Add new item PPSP.TP.REQ-9 & PPSP.PP.REQ-7 to adopt the = requirement of battery status report from peer; 3) Revise item PPSP.TP.REQ-8 & PPSP.PP.REQ-6 to adopt the = requirement of uplink & downlink bandwidth report from peer; 4) Revise item PPSP.TP.REQ-4 & PPSP.PP.REQ-5 to reflect the PPSP = session discussion. Any review and comments are appreciated. Thanks. BR, Ning Zong -----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6----- =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: IETF I-D Submission Tool = [mailto:idsubmission@ietf.org]=20 =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2011=E5=B9=B41=E6=9C=8817=E6=97=A5 = 8:37 =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: zongning@huawei.com =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: zhangyunfei@chinamobile.com; = victor.pascual.avila@gmail.com; carlw@mcsr-labs.org; lin.xiao@nsn.com =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-ppsp-reqs-01 A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-ppsp-reqs-01.txt has been successfully = submitted by Ning Zong and posted to the IETF repository. Filename: draft-ietf-ppsp-reqs Revision: 01 Title: P2P Streaming Protocol (PPSP) Requirements Creation_date: 2011-01-17 WG ID: ppsp Number_of_pages: 15 Abstract: The objective of the PPSP work is to standardize the key signaling protocols that apply to tracker and peers in a Peer-to-Peer (P2P) streaming system. These protocols are called PPSP. This document enumerates the requirements for the PPSP, which should be considered when designing PPSP. = =20 The IETF Secretariat. From Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Sun Jan 16 07:00:03 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ppsp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ppsp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6639F3A6D3F; Sun, 16 Jan 2011 07:00:03 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.5 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.5 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.099, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id F6oQxLplrh8z; Sun, 16 Jan 2011 07:00:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14F243A6BD7; Sun, 16 Jan 2011 07:00:02 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 3.10 Message-ID: <20110116150002.27440.98654.idtracker@localhost> Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2011 07:00:02 -0800 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 16 Jan 2011 17:09:51 -0800 Cc: ppsp@ietf.org Subject: [ppsp] I-D Action:draft-ietf-ppsp-problem-statement-01.txt X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2011 15:00:03 -0000 --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Peer to Peer Streaming Protocol Working Group of the IETF. Title : Problem Statement of P2P Streaming Protocol (PPSP) Author(s) : Y. Zhang, et al. Filename : draft-ietf-ppsp-problem-statement-01.txt Pages : 21 Date : 2011-01-16 P2P streaming systems show more and more popularity in current Internet with proprietary protocols. This document identifies problems of the proprietary protocols, proposes standard signaling protocols called PPSP and discusses the scope and use case of PPSP. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ppsp-problem-statement-01.txt Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-ppsp-problem-statement-01.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2011-01-16065052.I-D@ietf.org> --NextPart-- From Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Sun Jan 16 16:45:03 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ppsp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ppsp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED1543A6C43; Sun, 16 Jan 2011 16:45:02 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.383 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.383 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.011, BAYES_00=-2.599, SARE_SUB_OBFU_Q1=0.227, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CDP-iYSFeeZd; Sun, 16 Jan 2011 16:45:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 283B83A67C0; Sun, 16 Jan 2011 16:45:02 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 3.10 Message-ID: <20110117004502.28140.31041.idtracker@localhost> Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2011 16:45:02 -0800 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 16 Jan 2011 17:09:51 -0800 Cc: ppsp@ietf.org Subject: [ppsp] I-D Action:draft-ietf-ppsp-reqs-01.txt X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2011 00:45:03 -0000 --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Peer to Peer Streaming Protocol Working Group of the IETF. Title : P2P Streaming Protocol (PPSP) Requirements Author(s) : N. Zong, et al. Filename : draft-ietf-ppsp-reqs-01.txt Pages : 15 Date : 2011-01-16 The objective of the PPSP work is to standardize the key signaling protocols that apply to tracker and peers in a Peer-to-Peer (P2P) streaming system. These protocols are called PPSP. This document enumerates the requirements for the PPSP, which should be considered when designing PPSP. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ppsp-reqs-01.txt Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-ppsp-reqs-01.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2011-01-16163729.I-D@ietf.org> --NextPart-- From Jan.Seedorf@neclab.eu Tue Jan 18 02:28:51 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ppsp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ppsp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1D963A6FBE; Tue, 18 Jan 2011 02:28:50 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.056 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.056 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.221, BAYES_40=-0.185, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MRLMP12JBzmv; Tue, 18 Jan 2011 02:28:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp0.netlab.nec.de (smtp0.netlab.nec.de [195.37.70.40]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A27213A6FB8; Tue, 18 Jan 2011 02:28:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp0.netlab.nec.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08619280001AA; Tue, 18 Jan 2011 11:32:34 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: Amavisd on Debian GNU/Linux (atlas1.office.hd) Received: from smtp0.netlab.nec.de ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (atlas1.office.hd [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Zl6g+p7O7lTV; Tue, 18 Jan 2011 11:32:33 +0100 (CET) Received: from ENCELADUS.office.hd (ENCELADUS.office.hd [192.168.24.52]) by smtp0.netlab.nec.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id D773D2800017C; Tue, 18 Jan 2011 11:32:08 +0100 (CET) Received: from PALLENE.office.hd ([169.254.1.59]) by ENCELADUS.office.hd ([192.168.24.52]) with mapi id 14.01.0270.001; Tue, 18 Jan 2011 11:31:00 +0100 From: Jan Seedorf To: "p2prg@irtf.org" , P2PSIP WG , "ppsp@ietf.org" , 'alto' , "decade@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Live streaming of NAPA-WINE P2P-TV workshop with P2P software Thread-Index: Acu2+sxB9abvF+YITYupvh0rusVDHQ== Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2011 10:30:59 +0000 Message-ID: <2779C9F0771F974CAD742BAE6D9904FE7E96AF@PALLENE.office.hd> Accept-Language: de-DE, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.1.2.226] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: [ppsp] Live streaming of NAPA-WINE P2P-TV workshop with P2P software X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2011 10:28:51 -0000 P2P folks at IETF, To help people interested in the P2P-TV workshop we are hosting, the NAPA-WINE project's final workshop will be *broadcasted live* with the P2P Live Streaming Software developed by the NAPA-WINE project. The workshop opens on Thursday 20th January at 2.30PM CET and closes on Friday 21th January afternoon at 6.00PM CET. Recordings of the workshop will be made available from the project web site few days after the event too. For people interested in following the workshop/talks live via P2P video stream, we have prepared a page with Quick-Start instructions on how to download, install, and use the software to follow the event live. If you are interested, please go to http://www.napa-wine.eu/cgi-bin/twiki/view/Public/NapaWineWorkshopLive If you have any questions regarding the use of the software or following the final workshop live with it, please use the mailing list (napalive@tlc.= polito.it). A demo activity of the software is scheduled at 5.30PM (and yes! you will be part of the demo if you join the channel!)=20 *Workshop Program*=20 The final NAPA-WINE workshop is intended as an informal forum for lively discussions on current and future trends in peer-to-peer live streaming. Th= e program comprises four talks presenting the main NAPA-WINE achievements (an= d a demo of NAPA-WINE's network-aware P2P live streaming system) as well as nin= e talks from external highly qualified researchers from both academia and industry, providing a broad and articulated perspective on the main challen= ges and solutions on the topic. There will be external presentations provided b= y (see http://www.napa-wine.eu/workshop/program.html for agenda details): - Presentations from other on-going European projects on P2P-TV/CDN: * Future Media Networks (FMN) cluster and ENVISION (David Griffin, UCL, G= B) * COAST/SEA (Emanuele Quacchio, ST Microelectronics, IT) * P2P-NEXT (Raul Jimenez, KTH, SE) - Presentations from the industrial world (the operator/content provider vi= sion): * Nikolaos Laoutaris, Telefonica Research, ES * Enrico Marocco, Chair of IETF ALTO, Telecom Italia, IT - Presentations from academia (technical challenges) * Ernst Biersack, Eurecom, FR * Phuoc Tran-Gia, Tobias Hossfeld, University of Wuerzburg, DE * Yong Liu, Polytechnic Institute of NYU, US * Victoria Fodor, Gyorgy Dan, KTH, SE For further workshop program details, please see http://www.napa-wine.eu/wo= rkshop/ - Jan =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Jan Seedorf Senior Researcher NEC Europe Ltd., NEC Laboratories Europe, Network Division=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Kurfuerstenanlage 36, D-69115 Heidelberg Tel.=A0=A0=A0=A0 +49 (0)6221 4342-221 Fax:=A0=A0=A0=A0 +49 (0)6221 4342-155 e-mail:=A0 jan.seedorf@neclab.eu =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D NEC Europe Limited Registered Office: NEC House, 1 Victoria Road, London W3 6BL Registered in England 2832014=20 From henry.sinnreich@gmail.com Tue Jan 18 09:22:03 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ppsp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ppsp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0641D28C21E; Tue, 18 Jan 2011 09:22:03 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.558 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.558 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.355, BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dsrDTm765kcj; Tue, 18 Jan 2011 09:22:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-gw0-f44.google.com (mail-gw0-f44.google.com [74.125.83.44]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D00E28C0F1; Tue, 18 Jan 2011 09:22:01 -0800 (PST) Received: by gwj17 with SMTP id 17so2684081gwj.31 for ; Tue, 18 Jan 2011 09:24:38 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:user-agent:date:subject:from:to:message-id :thread-topic:thread-index:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=tPAeerIR9mRtJIio14cxeZyREDxSaVBRN51soh7VdUw=; b=hKaVMQxtGDm7kDl+0Qvt8OwyEt2h7zqHs0IKvXbK2Xi1oEcsBiSFK4hx1Jc2Ifwrl4 XyBU31SPN3aMn51FO6jTPPDIradZhsYkBkTrQ6jsR6b8RK2KIFv+FWqX0rMlSBA4QH0h T6lqx91JW8Lp1X+vfIdWhrJNo6b6O69cI1D6M= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=user-agent:date:subject:from:to:message-id:thread-topic :thread-index:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=n1vAXLuWFm310RkOZcNAqbOpp32metpPEOGoAIJLdgacoIJX64FzfpiW8essKyJwfm IqrQk/OcNfER2qfkJxpn6hdmV6m3RYD156CC4/lGu5JPgMF5waq0uvCptwQqX6vKYtuE arQ5YJcIJ9f2pkqT0qyBbiooyHCZS/NzoZpAs= Received: by 10.100.137.3 with SMTP id k3mr955644and.112.1295371477613; Tue, 18 Jan 2011 09:24:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.0.1.5] (cpe-76-184-225-135.tx.res.rr.com [76.184.225.135]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id c30sm7224115anc.0.2011.01.18.09.24.26 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Tue, 18 Jan 2011 09:24:28 -0800 (PST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/12.28.0.101117 Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2011 11:24:23 -0600 From: Henry Sinnreich To: Jan Seedorf , "p2prg@irtf.org" , P2PSIP WG , "ppsp@ietf.org" , 'alto' , "decade@ietf.org" Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [decade] Live streaming of NAPA-WINE P2P-TV workshop with P2P software Thread-Index: Acu2+sxB9abvF+YITYupvh0rusVDHQAOcAJn In-Reply-To: <2779C9F0771F974CAD742BAE6D9904FE7E96AF@PALLENE.office.hd> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [ppsp] [decade] Live streaming of NAPA-WINE P2P-TV workshop with P2P software X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2011 17:22:03 -0000 This spam is highly unwelcome. Also quite surprising, since your spam has already been called out on another list. Thanks, Henry On 1/18/11 4:30 AM, "Jan Seedorf" wrote: > P2P folks at IETF, >=20 > To help people interested in the P2P-TV workshop we are hosting, > the NAPA-WINE project's final workshop will be *broadcasted live* > with the P2P Live Streaming Software developed by the NAPA-WINE project. >=20 > The workshop opens on Thursday 20th January at 2.30PM CET and closes > on Friday 21th January afternoon at 6.00PM CET. > Recordings of the workshop will be made available from the project web si= te > few days after the event too. >=20 > For people interested in following the workshop/talks live > via P2P video stream, we have prepared a page with Quick-Start > instructions on how to download, install, and use the software > to follow the event live. If you are interested, please go to >=20 > http://www.napa-wine.eu/cgi-bin/twiki/view/Public/NapaWineWorkshopLive >=20 > If you have any questions regarding the use of the software or following > the final workshop live with it, please use the mailing list > (napalive@tlc.polito.it). >=20 > A demo activity of the software is scheduled at 5.30PM (and yes! you > will be part of the demo if you join the channel!) >=20 > *Workshop Program* > The final NAPA-WINE workshop is intended as an informal forum for lively > discussions on current and future trends in peer-to-peer live streaming. = The > program comprises four talks presenting the main NAPA-WINE achievements (= and a > demo of NAPA-WINE's network-aware P2P live streaming system) as well as n= ine > talks from external highly qualified researchers from both academia and > industry, providing a broad and articulated perspective on the main chall= enges > and solutions on the topic. There will be external presentations provided= by > (see http://www.napa-wine.eu/workshop/program.html for agenda details): >=20 > - Presentations from other on-going European projects on P2P-TV/CDN: > * Future Media Networks (FMN) cluster and ENVISION (David Griffin, UCL,= GB) > * COAST/SEA (Emanuele Quacchio, ST Microelectronics, IT) > * P2P-NEXT (Raul Jimenez, KTH, SE) > - Presentations from the industrial world (the operator/content provider > vision): > * Nikolaos Laoutaris, Telefonica Research, ES > * Enrico Marocco, Chair of IETF ALTO, Telecom Italia, IT > - Presentations from academia (technical challenges) > * Ernst Biersack, Eurecom, FR > * Phuoc Tran-Gia, Tobias Hossfeld, University of Wuerzburg, DE > * Yong Liu, Polytechnic Institute of NYU, US > * Victoria Fodor, Gyorgy Dan, KTH, SE >=20 > For further workshop program details, please see > http://www.napa-wine.eu/workshop/ >=20 > - Jan >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > Jan Seedorf > Senior Researcher > NEC Europe Ltd., NEC Laboratories Europe, Network Division=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 > Kurfuerstenanlage 36, D-69115 Heidelberg > Tel.=A0=A0=A0=A0 +49 (0)6221 4342-221 > Fax:=A0=A0=A0=A0 +49 (0)6221 4342-155 > e-mail:=A0 jan.seedorf@neclab.eu > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > NEC Europe Limited Registered Office: NEC House, > 1 Victoria Road, London W3 6BL Registered in England 2832014 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > decade mailing list > decade@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/decade From Jan.Seedorf@neclab.eu Wed Jan 19 06:30:24 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ppsp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ppsp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C052D3A7146; Wed, 19 Jan 2011 06:30:24 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.367 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.367 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.232, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZovOkvjMYj2v; Wed, 19 Jan 2011 06:30:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp0.neclab.eu (smtp0.neclab.eu [195.37.70.41]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39EC53A7145; Wed, 19 Jan 2011 06:30:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp0.neclab.eu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DA712C000349; Wed, 19 Jan 2011 15:33:23 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: Amavisd on Debian GNU/Linux (atlas2.office.hd) Received: from smtp0.neclab.eu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (atlas2.office.hd [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qC4v+gEIa0XP; Wed, 19 Jan 2011 15:33:23 +0100 (CET) Received: from ENCELADUS.office.hd (ENCELADUS.office.hd [192.168.24.52]) by smtp0.neclab.eu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1EFA22C0001AF; Wed, 19 Jan 2011 15:32:53 +0100 (CET) Received: from PALLENE.office.hd ([169.254.1.59]) by ENCELADUS.office.hd ([192.168.24.52]) with mapi id 14.01.0270.001; Wed, 19 Jan 2011 15:32:32 +0100 From: Jan Seedorf To: Henry Sinnreich , "p2prg@irtf.org" , P2PSIP WG , "ppsp@ietf.org" , 'alto' , "decade@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [decade] Live streaming of NAPA-WINE P2P-TV workshop with P2P software Thread-Index: Acu2+sxB9abvF+YITYupvh0rusVDHQAOcAJnACv7d1A= Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2011 14:32:31 +0000 Message-ID: <2779C9F0771F974CAD742BAE6D9904FE7E9ECC@PALLENE.office.hd> References: <2779C9F0771F974CAD742BAE6D9904FE7E96AF@PALLENE.office.hd> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: de-DE, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.7.0.199] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [ppsp] [decade] Live streaming of NAPA-WINE P2P-TV workshop with P2P software X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2011 14:30:24 -0000 Dear Henry, all, I apologize for abusing the mailing lists. Many IETF people had told me individually that they are highly interested i= n our workshop but cannot attend in person. I had received many emails with= questions on how to access workshop material after the event. Thus, I thou= ght it is of interest to this community that we are streaming the workshop = live with P2P software and everybody can join the P2P swarm to watch the ta= lks. Sorry if my mail was perceived as spam, - Jan > -----Original Message----- > From: Henry Sinnreich [mailto:henry.sinnreich@gmail.com] > Sent: Dienstag, 18. Januar 2011 18:24 > To: Jan Seedorf; p2prg@irtf.org; P2PSIP WG; ppsp@ietf.org; 'alto'; > decade@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [decade] Live streaming of NAPA-WINE P2P-TV workshop with P2= P > software >=20 > This spam is highly unwelcome. > Also quite surprising, since your spam has already been called out on > another list. >=20 > Thanks, Henry >=20 >=20 > On 1/18/11 4:30 AM, "Jan Seedorf" wrote: >=20 > > P2P folks at IETF, > > > > To help people interested in the P2P-TV workshop we are hosting, > > the NAPA-WINE project's final workshop will be *broadcasted live* > > with the P2P Live Streaming Software developed by the NAPA-WINE project= . > > > > The workshop opens on Thursday 20th January at 2.30PM CET and closes > > on Friday 21th January afternoon at 6.00PM CET. > > Recordings of the workshop will be made available from the project web = site > > few days after the event too. > > > > For people interested in following the workshop/talks live > > via P2P video stream, we have prepared a page with Quick-Start > > instructions on how to download, install, and use the software > > to follow the event live. If you are interested, please go to > > > > http://www.napa-wine.eu/cgi-bin/twiki/view/Public/NapaWineWorkshopLive > > > > If you have any questions regarding the use of the software or followin= g > > the final workshop live with it, please use the mailing list > > (napalive@tlc.polito.it). > > > > A demo activity of the software is scheduled at 5.30PM (and yes! you > > will be part of the demo if you join the channel!) > > > > *Workshop Program* > > The final NAPA-WINE workshop is intended as an informal forum for livel= y > > discussions on current and future trends in peer-to-peer live streaming= . The > > program comprises four talks presenting the main NAPA-WINE achievements= (and > a > > demo of NAPA-WINE's network-aware P2P live streaming system) as well as= nine > > talks from external highly qualified researchers from both academia and > > industry, providing a broad and articulated perspective on the main > challenges > > and solutions on the topic. There will be external presentations provid= ed by > > (see http://www.napa-wine.eu/workshop/program.html for agenda details): > > > > - Presentations from other on-going European projects on P2P-TV/CDN: > > * Future Media Networks (FMN) cluster and ENVISION (David Griffin, UC= L, > GB) > > * COAST/SEA (Emanuele Quacchio, ST Microelectronics, IT) > > * P2P-NEXT (Raul Jimenez, KTH, SE) > > - Presentations from the industrial world (the operator/content provide= r > > vision): > > * Nikolaos Laoutaris, Telefonica Research, ES > > * Enrico Marocco, Chair of IETF ALTO, Telecom Italia, IT > > - Presentations from academia (technical challenges) > > * Ernst Biersack, Eurecom, FR > > * Phuoc Tran-Gia, Tobias Hossfeld, University of Wuerzburg, DE > > * Yong Liu, Polytechnic Institute of NYU, US > > * Victoria Fodor, Gyorgy Dan, KTH, SE > > > > For further workshop program details, please see > > http://www.napa-wine.eu/workshop/ > > > > - Jan > > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > Jan Seedorf > > Senior Researcher > > NEC Europe Ltd., NEC Laboratories Europe, Network Division > > Kurfuerstenanlage 36, D-69115 Heidelberg > > Tel.=A0=A0=A0=A0 +49 (0)6221 4342-221 > > Fax:=A0=A0=A0=A0 +49 (0)6221 4342-155 > > e-mail:=A0 jan.seedorf@neclab.eu > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > NEC Europe Limited Registered Office: NEC House, > > 1 Victoria Road, London W3 6BL Registered in England 2832014 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > decade mailing list > > decade@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/decade >=20 From lars.eggert@nokia.com Mon Jan 24 01:43:49 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ppsp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ppsp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB85F3A6A7D for ; Mon, 24 Jan 2011 01:43:49 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -103.891 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.891 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.519, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, SARE_SUB_OBFU_Q1=0.227, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rqUS+8QNLlyO for ; Mon, 24 Jan 2011 01:43:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from mgw-da01.nokia.com (smtp.nokia.com [147.243.128.24]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1A1F3A69D9 for ; Mon, 24 Jan 2011 01:43:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.fit.nokia.com (esdhcp030222.research.nokia.com [172.21.30.222]) by mgw-da01.nokia.com (Switch-3.4.3/Switch-3.4.3) with ESMTP id p0O9kdKZ001542 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 24 Jan 2011 11:46:41 +0200 From: Lars Eggert X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.96.5 at fit.nokia.com Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary=Apple-Mail-3--272393838; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1 Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 11:46:25 +0200 Message-Id: <667DE8D5-BEA5-4A78-B83D-E1032951EE72@nokia.com> To: ppsp@ietf.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1082) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1082) X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.6 (mail.fit.nokia.com); Mon, 24 Jan 2011 11:46:31 +0200 (EET) X-Nokia-AV: Clean Subject: [ppsp] review: draft-ietf-ppsp-reqs-01 X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 09:43:50 -0000 --Apple-Mail-3--272393838 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi, I had some time to give draft-ietf-ppsp-reqs-01 a closer read. I did = find quite a number of open issues, see below. High-level comment: We need to make sure that all requirements are captured in the "PPSP.REQ" list of numbered requirements, and that the explanation following each numbered item is purely explanatory. Currently, some of the explanatory text does include additional requirements. High-level comment: This document requires a careful editing pass for such things as consistent terminology use, English language issues. Also, there's formatting issues wrt non-ASCII characters. High-level comment: Some of the editors have been silent on the WG list for one or even two years. The WG may need to discuss if there's a lack-of-energy problem here. INTRODUCTION, paragraph 1: > Intended status: Standards Track The charter milestone for this document is "Informational". INTRODUCTION, paragraph 11: > Copyright Notice The document has a disclaimer for pre-RFC5378 work, but was first submitted on or after 10 November 2008. Does it really need the disclaimer? Section 4., paragraph 0: > 4.1.3. Other General Requriements . . . . . . . . . . . . . . = 8 Nit: s/Requriements/Requirements/ Section 1., paragraph 1: > demonstrated by PPlive [WWW.PPLive], PPStream [WWW.PPStream], UUSee Nit: s/PPlive/PPLive/ (pick one way to capitalize it) Section 1., paragraph 2: > Also some web2.0 streaming applications such as Youtube Nit: s/Youtube/YouTube/ Section 1., paragraph 3: > [WWW.YouTube], Tudou [WWW.Tudou] are reported to use or are = preparing > to use P2P engine to accelerate its downloading rate and cut down = the > transmission cost. Is there a reference to back this claim up? Section 2., paragraph 5: > Peer list: A list of peer ID which are in a same swarm maintained = by > the PPSP tracker. A peer must fetch the peer list of a swarm from > the tracker to know which peers have the required content. "Must it", really? I agree that this is one way of getting a peer list, but in some deployments it is also possible to get a peer list from other peers or through some non-tracker third party. Section 2., paragraph 7: > Usage type: Information used to identify the type of shared = content. > Currently there are two usage types in PPSP: live streaming and = VoD. > PPSP may also be extended to support more usage types, e.g. data > file. "Type of shared content" is not the same as "usage type". Which do you mean? Section 4.1.1., paragraph 0: > 4.1.1. Basic Requirements to PPSP Node I think we're missing a high-level requirement that the tracker and peer protocols should be as similar as possible, in terms of design, message formats and flows, etc. Ideally, the peer protocol would be an extension to the tracker protocol that adds a few message types. We do NOT want two completely different protocols here. Section 4.1.1., paragraph 1: > PPSP.REQ-1: Each peer in PPSP MUST has a unique identifier, i.e. = peer > ID. Unique in what scope? Globally? Swarm? Also, English: s/has/have/ Section 4.1.1., paragraph 2: > It's a basic requirement for a peer to be uniquely identified in = the > PPSP overlay that other peers or tracker can refer the ID for the > peer. The term "overlay" is ndefined. Do you mean "swarm"? Section 4.1.1., paragraph 3: > The peer ID may be generated from IP address or SIP URI which > can distinguish this peer with the others. But if IP address is = used > as peer ID, the ID may be unstable as IP address may change while > peer moving. Not sure if we need to discuss here what the options are for choosing peer IDs. If we want to do this, we need to really discuss all the options, some obvious ones are missing (e.g., large random value, etc.) Section 4.1.1., paragraph 4: > PPSP.REQ-2: The tracker in PPSP MUST have a public identity that = can > be discovered and accessed by PPSP peers. "Public identity" is an undefined term. Do you simple mean "unique ID"? If so, again, unique in what scope? Section 4.1.1., paragraph 5: > It requires trackers are reachable with identifiers from Internet = or > other IP network. But how to discover the tracker is not in the > scope of PPSP. I think you're mixing up ID and address here. Also, I don't think we need to require anything about tracker reachability here. Either a peer can reach an identified tracker with whatever connectivity it has, or it can't. Plus, there may be access control or policy in place that may cause a tracker to not respond to a peer even when it is reachable at the IP layer. Section 4.1.2., paragraph 1: > PPSP.REQ-3: The data resources shared in PPSP services MUST be > classified and identified by different usage types. If you really mean "usage type" and not "type of content" (see comment on terminology above), I don't know if this makes total sense. Consider for example the case where some peers are watching a live streaming session for a content item. While the live session is still ongoing, other peers may already start watching the same content item as VoD. We surely would like the cached data on peers that got it via live streaming to be available to the peers that started watching a VoD session. That gets really hard if we label content with usage types. Can we not simply leave it up to the peer algorithms that decide which chunks to retrieve to determine how to do this for their usage type for a content item? > PPSP is designed for P2P live streaming and VoD. It also has the > potential to be used for P2P data file sharing. These usage types > have different requirements for truck queries and transmission > behaviors, e.g. data downloading order and time constraint. > Therefore, usage types are necessary to guide different content > sharing behaviors. See above, do we really need to segregate this at the information level? Section 4.1.2., paragraph 3: > A swarm refers to a group of peers sharing the same content. It > could be a TV Channel, film name or file name. Swarm ID can be > looked as a resource ID to denote a specific content. The swarm ID > can be used in two cases: 1) a peer requests the tracker for the = peer > list indexed by a swarm ID; 2) a peer tells the tracker about the > swarms it belongs to. To me at least, "swarm ID" means "an ID for a swarm, i.e., a group of peers sharing a content item." Is this requirement saying that we're also going to use the swarm ID to identify the content item? So there'd always be exactly one swarm in the network per content item (and not maybe two disjoint sets of peers)? Section 4.1.2., paragraph 5: > A key characteristic of P2P streaming system is allowing the data > fetching from different peers concurrently. Therefore, the whole > content must be partitioned into small peaces, called chunks in = PPSP, > for transmission. The chunks must be formed and sorted by a = standard > way, so when a peer says it requires some chunks, e.g. 011, 012 and > 013, other peers could understand which peaces wanted by the peer > exactly. Also, a normative buffer map can be used to show the = chunk > availability of a peer. This doesn't quite capture it. I think what you mean is that the data needs to be chunkable, and that each chunk must have a unique ID (within which context?) I don't think we need to require anything about ordering here other than that peers must be able to determine which chunks IDs to request in order to obtain which part of the content object. (I.e. there's some sort of mapping, but we don't need to care about the details.) Nit: s/peaces/pieces/ Section 4.1.2., paragraph 7: > So, the availability of each data unit in a peer can be denoted in = a > normative bitmap structure. By exchanging the bitmap, peers in a > swarm can schedule the transmission in the grain of the smallest = data > units. The text in PPSP.REQ-6 and the explanation don't go together. PPSP.REQ-6 says that the content item must have a standards format, which e.g. means that "this data item is an MPEG2 movie". But that is totally unrelated to denoting stuff in the availability bitmap. In fact, you don't even need to know what type the content has, you can chunk and bitmap it as a bytestream. Section 4.1.3., paragraph 0: > 4.1.3. Other General Requriements Nit: s/Requriements/Requirements/ Section 4.1.3., paragraph 1: > PPSP.REQ-7: The Tracker Protocol and Peer Protocol SHOULD enable > peers to receive streaming data within the time constraints = required > by specific content items. Why is this not a MUST? Also, this isn't always possible, simply because of the characteristics of the underlying connectivity. Finally, I think you wand to replace "streaming data" by "content". (Streaming data is just one type of content.) Section 4.1.3., paragraph 2: > PPSP.REQ-8: The Tracker Protocol and Peer Protocol are Recommended = to > be carried over TCP (or UDP, when delivery requirements cannot be = met > by TCP). I really think we should be simply requiring TCP here and not even talk about UDP. Section 4.2., paragraph 0: > PPSP.REQ-9: The Tracker Protocol is Recommended to support the IP > address change report sent from the peer. The Peer Protocol may > support the IP address change report sent from the peer. I have no idea what this means. If this is about supporting mobile peers, why do we need anything specific to that in the protocol? A peer whose IP address changes simply looks like a leave-and-join to the swarm. Section 4.2., paragraph 8: > PPSP.TP.REQ-7: The PPSP tracker MAY generate the peer list with the > help of traffic optimization services, e.g. Alto. Not sure if we need this, since a "MAY"-level statement isn't really a requirement. This would make more sense as a non-requirement in explanatory text. Also, cite ALTO. Section 4.2., paragraph 9: > PPSP.TP.REQ-8: The peer status report (update) message MAY have the > option to carry streaming status of the peer, including online = time, > link status including available uplink and downlink bandwidth, peer > capability and other streaming parameters of the peer. Therefore, > the tracker is able to select better candidate peers for streaming > without the help of other traffic optimization services. s/streaming//g (not all swarms are for streaming) Section 4.3., paragraph 0: > PPSP.TP.REQ-9: Battery status of the peer SHOULD be reported to the > tracker in the case where the peers are constrained by their = limited > battery (e.g. cellphone), Why? What is the tracker supposed to do with this information? Also, what metric do you envision to be applied here, mW? 4.3. PPSP Peer Protocol Requirements Section 4.3., paragraph 2: > PPSP.PP.REQ-1: The PPSP peers MUST implement the PPSP peer protocol > to exchange information and negotiate the data chunk requests and > responses before any content is transmitted. Not quite sure what the "before any content is transmitted" bit is about? Section 4.3., paragraph 3: > PPSP.PP.REQ-2: The content availability request message MUST allow > the peer to solicit the chunk ID and bitmap information from other > peers with the respect of the peer list received from tracker. Not quite sure what you mean with "with respect to"? Section 4.3., paragraph 8: > Due to the dynamic change of the buffered content in each peer and > the frequent join/leave of peers to the swarm, the content > availability among neighbourhoods are always changing,which = requires > being updated on time. This update should be done at least on > demand, which means when a peer requires finding more peers with > certain chunks, it send a message to all peer in the swarm for > content availability update. This is going too far in describing algorithmic behavior. I'm especially concerned about the "sending to all peers" bit; surely we want to allow peers freedom in determining how far to spread any such requests? Section 4.3., paragraph 10: > PPSP.PP.REQ-6: The peer streaming status update information MAY be > advertised among peers. s/streaming//g (not all swarms are for streaming) > Streaming status information should be related to the content > delivery, including online time, link status including available > uplink and downlink bandwidth, peer capability and other streaming > parameters of the peer. With this information, a peer can select > more appropriate peers for content sharing based on some content > sharing strategies and/or application requirements. Also, s/streaming//g (not all swarms are for streaming) Section 4.3., paragraph 11: > PPSP.PP.REQ-7: Battery status of the peer SHOULD be reported to = other > peers in the case where the peers are constrained by their limited > battery (e.g. cellphone), See my battery comment for the tracker protocol. Section 4.4., paragraph 1: > PPSP.ERR.REQ-1: A peer MUST be able to respond with error = information > to the peers sending PPSP messages, when some information (e.g. = peer > list, chunk expression) cannot be understood in the message. Why? Dropping such requests silently is much preferred from a DDoS angle. Section 4.4., paragraph 4: > PPSP.ERR.REQ-2: A PPSP tracker, which is operating close to its > capacity limit, MUST be able to inform peers about its impending > overload situation, and redirect them to another PPSP tracker. Why? I really don't want to redo the SIP-overload work for PPSP. Let the peers choose to go to another tracker when the one they have chosen is unresponsive. Section 4.4., paragraph 5: > PPSP.ERR.REQ-3: A PPSP tracker, which is operating close to its > capacity limit, MUST be able to inform peers about its impending > overload situation, and terminate the conversation with the current > PPSP tracker. See above. Section 4.4., paragraph 6: > PPSP.ERR.REQ-4: A PPSP tracker, which is operating close to its > capacity limit, MUST be able to inform peers about its impending > overload situation, and reject new conversation attempts. See above. Section 5., paragraph 2: > PPSP.SEC.REQ-1: PPSP MUST ensure that only authorized users can > access the original media in the P2P streaming system. This can be > achieved by defining or adopting such mechanisms as user > authentication and/or key management scheme. I think this goes in the right direction, but is phrased in a way that may be too strong. How about "PPSP MUST support closed swarms, where are peers are authenticated." I think this is as much as we can guarantee, because even with closed swarms, the content can leak (think about a hacked peer). Section 5., paragraph 3: > PPSP.SEC.REQ-2: Confidentiality of the streaming data SHOULD be > supported and the corresponding key management scheme MUST scale = well > without degrading the system performance. s/SHOULD/MUST optionally/ (i.e., it must be implemented but may not be used by all swarms) Section 5., paragraph 5: > PPSP.SEC.REQ-4: PPSP MUST prevent stream pollution attacks. In the > stream pollution attack, the attacker mixes into the stream bogus > chunks, or declare the chunks it doesn't have. Do we need to prevent this attack outright, or is it sufficient to identify it and exclude the offending peer from the swarm (which may be easier)? In other words, do we really need to treat this attack differently than PPSP.SEC.REQ-5? Section 5., paragraph 8: > PPSP.SEC.REQ-6: PPSP MUST prevent peers from exhausting the P2P > streaming system's available resource, e.g. processing capacity, > bandwidth, etc. How? The Internet as a whole doesn't have this capability, and since we're running on top of it, this seems difficult to achieve. Section 5., paragraph 9: > Given the prevalence of DoS attacks in the Internet, it is = important > to realize that a similar threat could exist in a large-scale > streaming system where attackers are capable of consuming a lot of > resources with just a small amount of effort. That makes sense, but PPSP.SEC.REQ-6 is phrased much more broadly. Section 5., paragraph 10: > PPSP.SEC.REQ-7: PPSP SHOULD minimize the dependency on reachability > of centralized servers. Unless we're willing to make a statement like "all peers MUST be accessible as if they were trackers", this requirement is basically useless. Section 5., paragraph 12: > PPSP.SEC.REQ-9: Security mechanisms of PPSP SHOULD not limit the > scalability, performance and reliability of the P2P streaming = system. Security always introduces an overhead. So it will always limit the scalability and performance compared to using no security. So this isn't really a useful requirement. Also: s/SHOULD not/SHOULD NOT/ Section 8.2., paragraph 7: > [Survey] Zong, N. and X. Jiang, "Survey of P2P Streaming", > IETF PPSP BoF, November 2008. Unused Reference: 'Survey' is defined on line 564, but no explicit reference was found in the text Section 8.2., paragraph 8: > [ProbSta] Zhang, Y., "Problem Statement of P2P Streaming Protocol > (PPSP)", IETF PPSP BoF, November 2008. Unused Reference: 'ProbSta' is defined on line 567, but no explicit reference was found in the text Section 8.2., paragraph 9: > [P2PLive] Guo, Y., Liang, C., and Y. Liu, "Adaptive Queue-based > Chunk Scheduling for P2P Live Streaming", IFIP > Networking Proceedings, May 2008. Unused Reference: 'P2PLive' is defined on line 570, but no explicit reference was found in the text Section 8.2., paragraph 10: > [LiveStream] > Pascual, V., "Live Streaming over P2PSIP", International > SIP Conference 10th Edition, January 2009. Unused Reference: 'LiveStream' is defined on line 574, but no explicit reference was found in the text Section 8.2., paragraph 11: > [I-D.ietf-p2psip-base] > Jennings, C., Lowekamp, B., Rescorla, E., Baset, S., and > H. Schulzrinne, "REsource LOcation And Discovery = (RELOAD) > Base Protocol", draft-ietf-p2psip-base-01 (work in > progress), December 2008. Unused Reference: 'I-D.ietf-p2psip-base' is defined on line 578, but no explicit reference was found in the text Section 8.2., paragraph 12: > [PPSPPS] Zhang, Y., Zong, N., Camarillo, G., Seng, J., and R. = Yang, > "PPSP Problem Statement", > draft-zhang-ppsp-problem-statement-05 (work in = progress). 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Received: from demumfd001.nsn-inter.net (demumfd001.nsn-inter.net [93.183.12.32]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF40C3A6B9A for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2011 02:32:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from demuprx016.emea.nsn-intra.net ([10.150.129.55]) by demumfd001.nsn-inter.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id p0PAYw0b007332 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 25 Jan 2011 11:34:58 +0100 Received: from demuexc025.nsn-intra.net (demuexc025.nsn-intra.net [10.159.32.12]) by demuprx016.emea.nsn-intra.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id p0PAYtgG013204; Tue, 25 Jan 2011 11:34:58 +0100 Received: from CNBEEXC007.nsn-intra.net ([10.159.192.12]) by demuexc025.nsn-intra.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Tue, 25 Jan 2011 11:34:56 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CBBC7B.805CA8DF" Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 18:34:36 +0800 Message-ID: <08E397856DC04A468C8283DC63E5EFDB962EDA@CNBEEXC007.nsn-intra.net> In-Reply-To: <201101162258095467203@chinamobile.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [ppsp] New Version submission fordraft-ietf-ppsp-problem-statement-01 Thread-Index: Acu1jdxQ/3WJoEFXSHCSEUbIXr1iXwG7Wncg References: <20110116145052.E996D3A6E53@core3.amsl.com> <201101162258095467203@chinamobile.com> From: "Xiao, Lin (NSN - CN/Beijing)" To: "ext zhangyunfei" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Jan 2011 10:34:56.0788 (UTC) FILETIME=[82934540:01CBBC7B] Subject: Re: [ppsp] New Version submission fordraft-ietf-ppsp-problem-statement-01 X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 10:32:09 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01CBBC7B.805CA8DF Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Yunfei, =20 The new version looks great! I just made few comments as followed:=20 =20 In Chapter 1: Given the above increasing integration of P2P streaming into the global content delivery infrastructure, the lacking of an open, standard P2P streaming signaling protocol suite becomes a major missing component in the Internet protocol stack. Both lacking and missing are used in the sentence. It can be changed as = "..., an open, standard P2P....becomes a major missing component in = ....", or "..., the lacking of an open , standard P2P .....becomes a = major issue in the Internet protocol stack"=20 =20 In section 3.2: However, there are substantial obstacles in deploying infrastructure nodes supporting proprietary P2P streaming protocols [HTPT]. Do you mean [HTTP] here?=20 =20 In the first sentence of Chapter 3:=20 Let's take a look what problems proprietary signaling brings out for P2P streaming applications. We should avoid to use "Let's ..." in academic document. It can be = changed as "The problems that brings out for P2P streaming applications = are listed and discussed in this chapter." =20 In Figure 1, please make sure the arrows between peers and tracker are = all bidirectional. =20 =20 BR Xiao Lin ________________________________ From: ppsp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of = ext zhangyunfei Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2011 3:58 PM To: ppsp@ietf.org Subject: [ppsp] New Version submission = fordraft-ietf-ppsp-problem-statement-01 Hi PPSP folks, Happy new year to all of you!We've submitted the new version of PPSP = PS WG draft.Please help to review the draft. Any comments and = suggestions are highly appreciated. The detailed information on the = draft is as follows: =20 http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ppsp-problem-statement/ =20 Filename: draft-ietf-ppsp-problem-statement Revision: 01 Title: Problem Statement of P2P Streaming Protocol (PPSP) Creation_date: 2011-01-16 WG ID: ppsp Number_of_pages: 21 =20 Abstract: P2P streaming systems show more and more popularity in current Internet with proprietary protocols. This document identifies problems of the proprietary protocols, proposes standard = signaling protocols called PPSP and discusses the scope and use case of = PPSP. =20 BR Yunfei =20 =20 =20 ________________________________ zhangyunfei 2011-01-16 ________________________________ =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA IETF I-D Submission Tool =B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4=A3=BA 2011-01-16 22:53:28 =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA zhangyunfei@chinamobile.com =B3=AD=CB=CD=A3=BA zongning@huawei.com; Gonzalo.Camarillo@ericsson.com; = james.seng@pplive.com; yry@cs.yale.edu =D6=F7=CC=E2=A3=BA New Version Notification = fordraft-ietf-ppsp-problem-statement-01 =20 =20 A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-ppsp-problem-statement-01.txt has = been successfully submitted by Yunfei Zhang and posted to the = IETF repository. =20 Filename: draft-ietf-ppsp-problem-statement Revision: 01 Title: Problem Statement of P2P Streaming Protocol (PPSP) Creation_date: 2011-01-16 WG ID: ppsp Number_of_pages: 21 =20 Abstract: P2P streaming systems show more and more popularity in current Internet with proprietary protocols. This document identifies problems of the proprietary protocols, proposes standard = signaling protocols called PPSP and discusses the scope and use case of = PPSP. = = =20 =20 =20 The IETF Secretariat. =20 =20 =20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01CBBC7B.805CA8DF Content-Type: text/html; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Yunfei,
 
The new version looks great! I just made few = comments as followed:=20
 
In Chapter 1:
Given the above increasing integration of = P2P streaming=20 into the
   global content delivery infrastructure, the=20 lacking of an open,
   standard P2P = streaming=20 signaling protocol suite becomes a major
  =20 missing component in the Internet protocol stack.
Both lacking and missing are used in the = sentence. It=20 can be changed as "..., an open, standard P2P....becomes a major missing = component in ....", or "..., the lacking of an open , standard P2P = .....becomes=20 a major issue in the Internet protocol = stack" 
 
In section 3.2:
 However, there = are=20 substantial obstacles in
   deploying infrastructure nodes=20 supporting proprietary P2P streaming
   protocols=20 [HTPT]. Do you mean [HTTP] = here?=20
 
In the first sentence = of Chapter 3:=20
Let's take a look what = problems=20 proprietary signaling brings out for
   P2P streaming=20 applications.

We should avoid to use "Let's ..." in academic = document. It can be=20 changed as "The problems that brings out for P2P streaming applications = are=20 listed and discussed in this chapter."
 
In Figure 1, please make sure the arrows = between peers=20 and tracker are all bidirectional.
 
 
BR
Xiao Lin


From: ppsp-bounces@ietf.org=20 [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of ext=20 zhangyunfei
Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2011 3:58 = PM
To:=20 ppsp@ietf.org
Subject: [ppsp] New Version submission=20 fordraft-ietf-ppsp-problem-statement-01

Hi PPSP folks,
    Happy new = year to all=20 of you!We've submitted the new version of PPSP PS WG draft.Please help = to review=20 the draft. Any comments and suggestions are highly appreciated. The = detailed=20 information on the draft is as follows:
 
http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ppsp-problem-st= atement/
 
Filename:=20  draft-ietf-ppsp-problem-statement
Revision: =  01
Title:  Problem =  Statement=20  of  P2P  Streaming  Protocol =  (PPSP)
Creation_date:=20  2011-01-16
WG  ID: =  ppsp
Number_of_pages: =  21
 
Abstract:
P2P  streaming =  systems=20  show  more  and  more  popularity  in=20  current
Internet  with =  proprietary=20  protocols.  This  document  identifies
problems  of  the=20  proprietary  protocols,  proposes  standard=20  signaling
protocols  called =  PPSP=20  and  discusses  the  scope  and  use =  case=20  of  PPSP.
 
BR
Yunfei
 
 
 
zhangyunfei
2011-01-16
=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA IETF I-D Submission=20 Tool
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4=A3=BA=20 2011-01-16 22:53:28
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA=20 zhangyunfei@chinamobile.com
=B3=AD=CB=CD=A3=BA zongning@huawei.com;=20 Gonzalo.Camarillo@ericsson.com; james.seng@pplive.com;=20 yry@cs.yale.edu
=D6=F7=CC=E2=A3=BA New Version=20 Notification fordraft-ietf-ppsp-problem-statement-01
 
 
A  new  version  of  I-D,=20  draft-ietf-ppsp-problem-statement-01.txt  has  been=20  successfully  submitted  by  Yunfei  Zhang =  and=20  posted  to  the  IETF  repository.
 
Filename:  draft-ietf-ppsp-problem-statement
Revision:  01
Title:  Problem  Statement  of  P2P =  Streaming=20  Protocol  (PPSP)
Creation_date:  2011-01-16
WG  ID:  ppsp
Number_of_pages:  21
 
Abstract:
P2P  streaming  systems  show  more  and=20  more  popularity  in  current
Internet  with  proprietary  protocols.  This=20  document  identifies
problems  of  the  proprietary  protocols,=20  proposes  standard  signaling
protocols  called  PPSP  and  discusses =  the=20  scope  and  use  case  of  PPSP.
                  =  =20                     =  =20                     =  =20                     =  =20                     =  =20                     =  =20                     =  =20            
 
 
The  IETF  Secretariat.
 
 
 
------_=_NextPart_001_01CBBC7B.805CA8DF-- From zhangyunfei@chinamobile.com Tue Jan 25 21:57:46 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ppsp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ppsp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E5413A6933 for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2011 21:57:46 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -95.086 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-95.086 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.397, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_FONT_FACE_BAD=0.884, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_32=0.6, MIME_BASE64_TEXT=1.753, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RELAY_IS_221=2.222, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id svGGST5B1a1z for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2011 21:57:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from hqmta.chinamobile.com (hqmta.chinamobile.com [221.130.253.171]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A9723A692E for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2011 21:57:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from hqmta.chinamobile.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost.imsstest.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B14C416A5B; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 14:00:40 +0800 (CST) Received: from mail.chinamobile.com (unknown [10.1.28.22]) by hqmta.chinamobile.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A133916714; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 14:00:40 +0800 (CST) Received: from zyf ([10.2.0.6]) by mail.chinamobile.com (Lotus Domino Release 6.5.6) with ESMTP id 2011012614003778-13568 ; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 14:00:37 +0800 Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 14:00:36 +0800 From: "zhangyunfei" To: "Xiao, Lin (NSN - CN/Beijing)" , "ppsp@ietf.org" References: <20110116145052.E996D3A6E53@core3.amsl.com> <201101162258095467203@chinamobile.com> <08E397856DC04A468C8283DC63E5EFDB962EDA@CNBEEXC007.nsn-intra.net> Message-ID: <201101261400351259326@chinamobile.com> X-mailer: Foxmail 6, 2, 103, 20 [cn] Mime-Version: 1.0 X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on jtgsml01/servers/cmcc(Release 6.5.6|March 06, 2007) at 2011-01-26 14:00:37, Serialize by Router on jtgsml01/servers/cmcc(Release 6.5.6|March 06, 2007) at 2011-01-26 14:00:39, Serialize complete at 2011-01-26 14:00:39 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====003_Dragon871101863516_=====" X-TM-AS-Product-Ver: IMSS-7.0.0.8231-6.5.0.1024-17916.005 X-TM-AS-Result: No--24.102-5.0-31-10 X-imss-scan-details: No--24.102-5.0-31-10;No--24.102-5.0-31-10 Subject: Re: [ppsp] New Version submissionfordraft-ietf-ppsp-problem-statement-01 X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 05:57:46 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --=====003_Dragon871101863516_===== Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" SGkgTGluLCANCiAgIFRoYW5rcyBmb3IgeW91ciByZXZpZXcuIFBsZWFzZSBzZWUgaW5saW5lIGZv 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Jm5ic3A7ICZuYnNwOyAmbmJzcDsgJm5ic3A7ICZuYnNwOyAmbmJzcDsgJm5ic3A7ICZuYnNwOyAm bmJzcDsgJm5ic3A7IA0KJm5ic3A7ICZuYnNwOyAmbmJzcDsgJm5ic3A7ICZuYnNwOyAmbmJzcDs8 L0RJVj4NCjxESVY+Jm5ic3A7PC9ESVY+DQo8RElWPiZuYnNwOzwvRElWPg0KPERJVj5UaGUgJm5i c3A7SUVURiAmbmJzcDtTZWNyZXRhcmlhdC48L0RJVj4NCjxESVY+Jm5ic3A7PC9ESVY+DQo8RElW PiZuYnNwOzwvRElWPg0KPERJVj4mbmJzcDs8L0RJVj48L0ZPTlQ+PC9ESVY+PC9GT05UPjwvRElW PjwvQk9EWT48L0hUTUw+DQo= --=====003_Dragon871101863516_=====-- From christian.1.schmidt@nsn.com Fri Jan 28 02:31:54 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ppsp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ppsp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E70AC3A6405 for ; Fri, 28 Jan 2011 02:31:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.716 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.716 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.882, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sx0BuuWMM1QH for ; Fri, 28 Jan 2011 02:31:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from demumfd002.nsn-inter.net (demumfd002.nsn-inter.net [93.183.12.31]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EEECA3A63CA for ; Fri, 28 Jan 2011 02:31:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from demuprx017.emea.nsn-intra.net ([10.150.129.56]) by demumfd002.nsn-inter.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id p0SAYULB025990 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 28 Jan 2011 11:34:30 +0100 Received: from demuexc023.nsn-intra.net (demuexc023.nsn-intra.net [10.150.128.36]) by demuprx017.emea.nsn-intra.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id p0SAYUfc024506; Fri, 28 Jan 2011 11:34:30 +0100 Received: from DEMUEXC013.nsn-intra.net ([10.150.128.24]) by demuexc023.nsn-intra.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Fri, 28 Jan 2011 11:34:30 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CBBED6.F213B77C" Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 11:34:29 +0100 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <201101181419275009728@chinamobile.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Review: draft-ietf-pp2p-problem-statement-01 / Section 3 Thread-Index: Acu217LM9UZocrNNRy+Vv4owS42TTAB0Fw9A References: <201101180955204217745@chinamobile.com> <201101181419275009728@chinamobile.com> From: "Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN - DE/Munich)" To: "ext zhangyunfei" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Jan 2011 10:34:30.0230 (UTC) FILETIME=[F1FC1760:01CBBED6] Subject: [ppsp] Review: draft-ietf-pp2p-problem-statement-01 / Section 3 X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 10:31:55 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01CBBED6.F213B77C Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Comments on section 3 problem statement =20 3.1 ISP's difficulties in deploying P2P caches - Is it really possible, to decide remotely with deep packet inspection, which stream should be locally cached? And what should be done next to reduce traffic? - An application controlled caching system is much better for this purpose. - ISP workload can be reduced as well, using proprietary protocols for remote control. =20 3.2 Open streaming delivery infrastructure - Interaction between different streaming providers is an interesting topic. The level of cooperation will have influence to the importance for standards in this area.=20 =20 3.3 Difficulties in mobile and wireless environment - I do not see, how this is problems are related to proprietary vs. Standardized peer protocols. All this mobile specialities can be taken into account in proprietary protocols as well. =20 3.4 Terminal physical resource starvation - Limited CPU, storage and memory - Is this still a problem today?=20 =20 In section 3, a lot of arguments are not fitting under the umbrella of " Let's take a look what problems proprietary signalling brings out for P2P streaming applications." =20 Let's focus here on the last sentence of this section and provide more input on this: "Standard protocols reduce the complexity of coexisting multiple closed systems and create possibilities to use one client software accommodating different systems." =20 Best Regards Christian Schmidt =20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01CBBED6.F213B77C Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Comments on section 3 problem statement

 

3.1 ISP’s difficulties in deploying P2P = caches

- Is it really possible, to decide remotely with deep packet = inspection, which stream should be locally cached? And what should be = done next to reduce traffic?

- An application controlled caching system is much better for this = purpose.

- ISP workload can be reduced as well, using proprietary protocols = for remote control.

 

3.2 Open streaming delivery infrastructure

- Interaction between different streaming providers is an interesting = topic.  The level of cooperation will have influence to the = importance for  standards in this area.

 

3.3 Difficulties in mobile and wireless = environment

- I do not see, how this is problems are related to proprietary vs. = Standardized peer protocols. All this mobile specialities can be taken = into account in proprietary protocols as well.

 

3.4 Terminal physical resource starvation

- Limited CPU, storage and memory – Is this still a problem = today?

 

In section 3, a lot of arguments are not fitting under the umbrella = of

“ Let’s take a look what problems proprietary signalling = brings out for P2P streaming = applications.”

 

Let’s focus here on the last sentence of this section and = provide more input on this:

“Standard protocols reduce the complexity of coexisting = multiple closed systems and create possibilities to use one client = software accommodating different systems.”

 

Best Regards

Christian Schmidt

 

------_=_NextPart_001_01CBBED6.F213B77C-- From zhangyunfei@chinamobile.com Mon Jan 31 00:43:49 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ppsp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ppsp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3C183A6B2F for ; Mon, 31 Jan 2011 00:43:49 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -95.506 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-95.506 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.067, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_83=0.6, MIME_BASE64_TEXT=1.753, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RELAY_IS_221=2.222, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7W7OoobrcSJl for ; Mon, 31 Jan 2011 00:43:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from hqmta.chinamobile.com (hqmta.chinamobile.com [221.130.253.171]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1353B3A6B2D for ; Mon, 31 Jan 2011 00:43:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from hqmta.chinamobile.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost.imsstest.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FC87215B0; Mon, 31 Jan 2011 16:46:53 +0800 (CST) Received: from mail.chinamobile.com (unknown [10.1.28.22]) by hqmta.chinamobile.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A288B215A4; Mon, 31 Jan 2011 16:46:48 +0800 (CST) Received: from zyf ([10.2.2.21]) by mail.chinamobile.com (Lotus Domino Release 6.5.6) with ESMTP id 2011013116444133-19016 ; Mon, 31 Jan 2011 16:44:41 +0800 Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 16:44:38 +0800 From: "zhangyunfei" To: "Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN - DE/" , "ppsp@ietf.org" References: <201101180955204217745@chinamobile.com> <201101181419275009728@chinamobile.com> Message-ID: <201101311644379687165@chinamobile.com> X-mailer: Foxmail 6, 2, 103, 20 [cn] Mime-Version: 1.0 X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on jtgsml01/servers/cmcc(Release 6.5.6|March 06, 2007) at 2011-01-31 16:44:41, Serialize by Router on jtgsml01/servers/cmcc(Release 6.5.6|March 06, 2007) at 2011-01-31 16:46:48, Serialize complete at 2011-01-31 16:46:48 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====003_Dragon237685488471_=====" X-TM-AS-Product-Ver: IMSS-7.0.0.8231-6.5.0.1024-17926.004 X-TM-AS-Result: No--23.903-7.0-31-10 X-imss-scan-details: No--23.903-7.0-31-10;No--23.903-5.0-31-10 X-TM-AS-User-Approved-Sender: No Subject: Re: [ppsp] Review: draft-ietf-pp2p-problem-statement-01 / Section 3 X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: 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