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From: "Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN - DE/Munich)" <christian.1.schmidt@nsn.com>
To: "ext Ning Zong" <zongning@huawei.com>, "ext zhangyunfei" <zhangyunfei@chinamobile.com>, <ppsp@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [ppsp] Draft-ietf-ppsp-req-01
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Hi Ning Zong,

=20

I do not agree, that basic QoS issues should not be a normative =
requirement for PPSP system. I think they are essential to this =
services.

what about the proposal to include a section Quality of Service =
Requirements?

=20

QoS.REQ-1:

=A1=B0Setup time to receive a new streaming channel or to switch between =
channels should be reasonable small. This time mainly depends on the =
size of the receiving buffer.=A1=B1

=20

QoS.REQ-2:=20

=A1=B0End to end delay (time between content generation, e.g. camera and =
content consumption, e.g. user side monitor) will become critical in =
case of live streaming. Especially In provisioning of sports events, end =
to end delay of 1 minute and more seems to be not acceptable.=A1=B1

=20

QoS.REQ-3:=20

=A1=B0The user should receive an error free copy of the original =
streaming. This can be done with addition of redundancy and the usage of =
packet retransmission. But the additional delay has to be taken into =
account.=A1=B1

=20

What do you think about?

BR

Christian

=20

=20

=20

=20

From: ext Ning Zong [mailto:zongning@huawei.com]=20
Sent: Friday, February 25, 2011 1:28 AM
To: Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN - DE/Munich); 'ext zhangyunfei'; =
ppsp@ietf.org
Subject: =B4=F0=B8=B4: [ppsp] Draft-ietf-ppsp-req-01

=20

Hi, Schmidt,

=20

Your suggestion is good, although I think this new text could be in =
explanatory text rather than in the formal requirement body.

BTW, I have post a new revision -02 and forward the message to the list, =
but it seems that it doesn=A1=AFt come out. So I attached the link to =
the new version as below

=20

http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ppsp-reqs-02

The main differences between -02 and -01 can be found in:

http://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-ppsp-reqs-02.txt

=20

BR,

Ning Zong

=20

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: ppsp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] =
=B4=FA=B1=ED Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN - DE/Munich)
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2011=C4=EA2=D4=C224=C8=D5 20:56
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: ext zhangyunfei; ppsp@ietf.org
=D6=F7=CC=E2: [ppsp] Draft-ietf-ppsp-req-01

=20

Hi Yunfei,

=20

a proposal related to PPSP.REQ-7:

=20

   =A1=B0PPSP.REQ-7: The Tracker Protocol and Peer Protocol SHOULD =
enable

   peers to receive streaming data within the time constraints required

   by specific content items.=A1=B1

=20

CS: We should be a little bit more specific here. I think, that delay =
will

be the most critical QoS issues, especially for p2p live streaming.

We should add:

=20

Proposal:

   =A1=B0PPSP.REQ-7: The Tracker Protocol and Peer Protocol SHOULD =
enable

   peers to receive streaming data within the time constraints required

   by specific content items. End to end delay will become critical in =
case

   of live streaming. Especially In provisioning of sports events,=20

  end to end delay of 1 minute and more seems to be not =
acceptable.=A1=B1

=20

What do you think about?

Best Regards

Christian

=20


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<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DDE link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Hi Ning Zong,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>I do not agree, that basic QoS issues should not be a normative =
requirement for PPSP system. I think they are essential to this =
services.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>what about the proposal to include a section Quality of Service =
Requirements?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>QoS.REQ-1:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>=A1=B0Setup time to receive a new streaming channel or to switch =
between channels should be reasonable small. This time mainly depends on =
the size of the receiving buffer.=A1=B1<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>QoS.REQ-2: <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>=A1=B0</spa=
n><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>End to end =
delay (time between content generation, e.g. camera and content =
consumption, e.g. user side monitor) will become critical in case of =
live streaming. Especially In provisioning of sports events, end to end =
delay of 1 minute and more seems to be not =
acceptable.=A1=B1<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>QoS.REQ-3: <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>=A1=B0</spa=
n><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>The user =
should receive an error free copy of the original streaming. This can be =
done with addition of redundancy and the usage of packet retransmission. =
But the additional delay has to be taken into account.=A1=B1</span><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>What do you think about?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>BR<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Christian<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft =
style=3D'text-align:left'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
ext Ning Zong [mailto:zongning@huawei.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, =
February 25, 2011 1:28 AM<br><b>To:</b> Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN - =
DE/Munich); 'ext zhangyunfei'; ppsp@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> =
</span><span lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=B4=F0=B8=B4</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>: [ppsp] =
Draft-ietf-ppsp-req-01<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft =
style=3D'text-align:left'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Hi, =
Schmidt,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Your =
suggestion is good, although I think this new text could be in =
explanatory text rather than in the formal requirement =
body.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>BTW, I have =
post a new revision -02 and forward the message to the list, but it =
seems that it doesn=A1=AFt come out. So I attached the link to the new =
version as below<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US><a =
href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ppsp-reqs-02">http://tools.=
ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ppsp-reqs-02</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>The main differences between -02 =
and -01 can be found in:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US><a =
href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-ppsp-reqs-02.txt"=
>http://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-ppsp-reqs-02.txt</a><o:p=
></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>BR,<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Ning =
Zong<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF =
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft =
style=3D'text-align:left'><b><span lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB</span></=
b><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>:</span></b><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'> <a =
href=3D"mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org">ppsp-bounces@ietf.org</a> <a =
href=3D"mailto:[mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org]">[mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.=
org]</a> </span><b><span lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=B4=FA=B1=ED</span></b><b><=
span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'> =
</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN =
- DE/Munich)<br></span><b><span lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4</s=
pan></b><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>:</span></b><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'> =
2011</span><span lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=C4=EA</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>2</span><span =
lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=D4=C2</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>24</span><span =
lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=C8=D5</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'> =
20:56<br></span><b><span lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB</span></=
b><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>:</span></b><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'> ext =
zhangyunfei; <a =
href=3D"mailto:ppsp@ietf.org">ppsp@ietf.org</a><br></span><b><span =
lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=D6=F7=CC=E2</span></b><b><=
span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>:</span></b><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'> [ppsp] =
Draft-ietf-ppsp-req-01<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Hi Yunfei,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>a proposal related to PPSP.REQ-7:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =A1=B0PPSP.REQ-7: The Tracker Protocol and Peer Protocol =
SHOULD enable<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;&nbsp; peers to receive streaming data within the time =
constraints required<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;&nbsp; by specific content items.=A1=B1<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:red'>C=
S: We should be a little bit more specific here. I think, that delay =
will<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:red'>b=
e the most critical QoS issues, especially for p2p live =
streaming.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:red'>W=
e should add:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Proposal:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =A1=B0PPSP.REQ-7: The Tracker Protocol and Peer Protocol =
SHOULD enable<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;&nbsp; peers to receive streaming data within the time =
constraints required<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;&nbsp; by specific content items. </span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:red'>E=
nd to end delay will become critical in case<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:red'>&=
nbsp; &nbsp;of live streaming. Especially In provisioning of sports =
events, <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:red'>&=
nbsp;&nbsp;end to end delay of 1 minute and more seems to be not =
acceptable.=A1=B1<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>What do you think about?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Best Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Christian<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div></body></html>
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From: "Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN - DE/Munich)" <christian.1.schmidt@nsn.com>
To: "ext zhangyunfei" <zhangyunfei@chinamobile.com>, <ppsp@ietf.org>
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Hi Yunfei,

=20

an additional proposal for the peer protocol security issues.

=20

Current text:

=20

   Similar to the behaviour in the tracker-peer interaction, malicious

   peers may also create fake information on chunk availability and

   exchange it with other peers. Some techniques to check the data

   integrity (e.g., using checksum) may be useful for detecting the
data.

   But this part is out of scope of PPSP.

=20

Proposed new text:  =20

=20

   Similar to the behaviour in the tracker-peer interaction, malicious

   peers may also create fake information on chunk availability and

   exchange it with other peers.=20

=20

   Malicious peers can also modify stream contents. Some techniques=20

   are available and useful to check the data integrity (e.g., using
checksum).

   The related information can be received from the tracker via the
tracker protocol.

   The selection of a certain mechanism for this purpose is out of scope
for PPSP.

=20

  =20

What do you think about this?

BR

Christian

=20

=20


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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DDE link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Hi Yunfei,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>an additional proposal for the peer protocol security =
issues.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Current text:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;&nbsp; Similar to the behaviour in the tracker-peer =
interaction, malicious<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;&nbsp; peers may also create fake information on chunk =
availability and<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;&nbsp; exchange it with other peers. Some techniques to check =
the data<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;&nbsp; integrity (e.g., using checksum) may be useful for =
detecting the data.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;&nbsp; But this part is out of scope of =
PPSP.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Proposed new text:&nbsp;&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;&nbsp; Similar to the behaviour in the tracker-peer =
interaction, malicious<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;&nbsp; peers may also create fake information on chunk =
availability and<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;&nbsp; exchange it with other peers. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;&nbsp; Malicious peers can also modify stream contents. Some =
techniques <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;are available and useful to check the data =
integrity (e.g., using checksum).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;&nbsp; The related information can be received from the tracker =
via the tracker protocol.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;&nbsp; The selection of a certain mechanism for this purpose is =
out of scope for PPSP.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>What do you think about this?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
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Thread-Topic: Review: draft-ietf-pp2p-problem-statement-01 / Security
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References: <201103071946549559227@chinamobile.com>
From: "Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN - DE/Munich)" <christian.1.schmidt@nsn.com>
To: "ext zhangyunfei" <zhangyunfei@chinamobile.com>, <ppsp@ietf.org>
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Mar 2011 11:58:37.0718 (UTC) FILETIME=[FE382360:01CBDCBE]
Subject: Re: [ppsp] Review: draft-ietf-pp2p-problem-statement-01 / Security
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Hi Yunfei,

=20

the tracker could get this checksum information from the content =
provider direct.

In case of usage of the checksum in the description files.

How secure is this method? Would it be possible for a malicious peer to =
manipulate this information as well?

=20

BR

Christian

=20

=20

=20

From: ext zhangyunfei [mailto:zhangyunfei@chinamobile.com]=20
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2011 12:47 PM
To: Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN - DE/Munich); ppsp@ietf.org
Subject: Re:Review: draft-ietf-pp2p-problem-statement-01 / Security

=20

Hi Christian,

   The only thing I am not sure is the sentence"  The related =
information can be received from the tracker via the tracker protocol". =
The checksume info is often self-contained in the description files in =
P2P file sharing case, like the .torrent file in Bittorent rather than =
received from the tracker. Although P2P streaming has a different =
condition and maybe different technique to deal with this, I am not sure =
if the tracker can deal with it. Would you please say more details on =
this?Thanks.

=20

=20

BR

Yunfei

________________________________

zhangyunfei

2011-03-07

________________________________

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN - DE/Munich)

=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4=A3=BA 2011-03-07 18:34:58

=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA ext zhangyunfei; ppsp@ietf.org

=B3=AD=CB=CD=A3=BA=20

=D6=F7=CC=E2=A3=BA Review: draft-ietf-pp2p-problem-statement-01 / =
Security

=20

=20

Hi Yunfei,

=20

an additional proposal for the peer protocol security issues.

=20

Current text:

=20

   Similar to the behaviour in the tracker-peer interaction, malicious

   peers may also create fake information on chunk availability and

   exchange it with other peers. Some techniques to check the data

   integrity (e.g., using checksum) may be useful for detecting the =
data.

   But this part is out of scope of PPSP.

=20

Proposed new text:  =20

=20

   Similar to the behaviour in the tracker-peer interaction, malicious

   peers may also create fake information on chunk availability and

   exchange it with other peers.=20

=20

   Malicious peers can also modify stream contents. Some techniques=20

   are available and useful to check the data integrity (e.g., using =
checksum).

   The related information can be received from the tracker via the =
tracker protocol.

   The selection of a certain mechanism for this purpose is out of scope =
for PPSP.

=20

  =20

What do you think about this?

BR

Christian

=20

________________________________

zhangyunfei

2011-03-07


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<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DDE link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Hi Yunfei,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>the tracker could get this checksum information from the content =
provider direct.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>In case of usage of the checksum in the description =
files.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>How secure is this method? Would it be possible for a malicious peer =
to manipulate this information as well?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>BR<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Christian<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
ext zhangyunfei [mailto:zhangyunfei@chinamobile.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> =
Monday, March 07, 2011 12:47 PM<br><b>To:</b> Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN =
- DE/Munich); ppsp@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re:Review: =
draft-ietf-pp2p-problem-statement-01 / =
Security<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:blue'>=
Hi Christian,</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:blue'>=
&nbsp;&nbsp; The only thing I am not sure is the =
sentence&quot;</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:blue'>&nbsp; The =
related information can be received from the tracker via the tracker =
protocol&quot;. The checksume info is often self-contained in the =
description files in P2P file sharing case, like the .torrent file in =
Bittorent rather than received from the tracker. Although P2P streaming =
has a different condition and maybe different technique to deal with =
this, I am not sure if the tracker can deal with it. Would you please =
say more details on this?Thanks.</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:blue'>=
BR</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:blue'>=
Yunfei</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter =
style=3D'text-align:center'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><hr size=3D2 width=3D122 style=3D'width:91.5pt' =
align=3Dcenter></span></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:silver=
'>zhangyunfei</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:silver=
'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:silver=
'>2011-03-07</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div class=3DMsoNormal =
align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter></span></div></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><strong><span lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun;color:#1F497D'>=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=
=CB=A3=BA</span></strong><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'> Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN - DE/Munich)</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><strong><span =
lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun;color:#1F497D'>=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=
=B1=BC=E4=A3=BA</span></strong><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'> 2011-03-07&nbsp;18:34:58</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><strong><span =
lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun;color:#1F497D'>=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=
=CB=A3=BA</span></strong><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'> ext zhangyunfei; ppsp@ietf.org</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><strong><span =
lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun;color:#1F497D'>=B3=AD=CB=CD=A3=
=BA</span></strong><span lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'> </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><strong><span =
lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun;color:#1F497D'>=D6=F7=CC=E2=A3=
=BA</span></strong><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'> Review: draft-ietf-pp2p-problem-statement-01 / Security</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Hi Yunfei,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>an additional proposal for the peer protocol security =
issues.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Current text:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;&nbsp; Similar to the behaviour in the tracker-peer =
interaction, malicious<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;&nbsp; peers may also create fake information on chunk =
availability and<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;&nbsp; exchange it with other peers. Some techniques to check =
the data<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;&nbsp; integrity (e.g., using checksum) may be useful for =
detecting the data.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;&nbsp; But this part is out of scope of =
PPSP.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Proposed new text:&nbsp;&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;&nbsp; Similar to the behaviour in the tracker-peer =
interaction, malicious<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;&nbsp; peers may also create fake information on chunk =
availability and<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;&nbsp; exchange it with other peers. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;&nbsp; Malicious peers can also modify stream contents. Some =
techniques <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;are available and useful to check the data =
integrity (e.g., using checksum).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;&nbsp; The related information can be received from the tracker =
via the tracker protocol.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;&nbsp; The selection of a certain mechanism for this purpose is =
out of scope for PPSP.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>What do you think about this?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>BR<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Christian<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>=
</div><div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter =
style=3D'text-align:center'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><hr =
size=3D2 width=3D122 style=3D'width:91.5pt' =
align=3Dcenter></span></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:silver=
'>zhangyunfei</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:silver'><o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:silver=
'>2011-03-07</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div>=
</div></body></html>
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Thread-Topic: [ppsp] Review: draft-ietf-pp2p-problem-statement-01 / Security
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References: <201103071946549559227@chinamobile.com> <C58FFCAAA14F454A85AFB7C1C2F862C40199840A@DEMUEXC013.nsn-intra.net> <40828098040C4B0DBDDD0F297A3D930D@denglingli>
From: "Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN - DE/Munich)" <christian.1.schmidt@nsn.com>
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Subject: Re: [ppsp] Review: draft-ietf-pp2p-problem-statement-01 / Security
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Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2011 09:39:51 +0800
From: Ning Zong <zongning@huawei.com>
In-reply-to: <C58FFCAAA14F454A85AFB7C1C2F862C4019982FC@DEMUEXC013.nsn-intra.net>
To: "'Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN - DE/Munich)'" <christian.1.schmidt@nsn.com>,  'ext zhangyunfei' <zhangyunfei@chinamobile.com>, ppsp@ietf.org
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Hi, Schmidt,

=20

I agree that these requirements of QoS are important to P2P streaming
system. However, I still don=A1=AFt see how these QoS requirements =
impact the
design of Tracker & Peer Protocol, bearing in mind that our scope is not
developing a P2P streaming system. Instead, IMO, these requirements =
could be
addressed by some video transmission protocols such as those developed =
in
AVT WG.

Could you give some examples on how these QoS issue will apply to =
Tracker &
Peer Protocol?

Thanks.

=20

BR,

Ning Zong

=20

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN - DE/Munich)
[mailto:christian.1.schmidt@nsn.com]=20
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2011=C4=EA3=D4=C27=C8=D5 18:06
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: ext Ning Zong; ext zhangyunfei; ppsp@ietf.org
=D6=F7=CC=E2: RE: [ppsp] Draft-ietf-ppsp-req-01

=20

Hi Ning Zong,

=20

I do not agree, that basic QoS issues should not be a normative =
requirement
for PPSP system. I think they are essential to this services.

what about the proposal to include a section Quality of Service
Requirements?

=20

QoS.REQ-1:

=A1=B0Setup time to receive a new streaming channel or to switch between
channels should be reasonable small. This time mainly depends on the =
size of
the receiving buffer.=A1=B1

=20

QoS.REQ-2:=20

=A1=B0End to end delay (time between content generation, e.g. camera and =
content
consumption, e.g. user side monitor) will become critical in case of =
live
streaming. Especially In provisioning of sports events, end to end delay =
of
1 minute and more seems to be not acceptable.=A1=B1

=20

QoS.REQ-3:=20

=A1=B0The user should receive an error free copy of the original =
streaming. This
can be done with addition of redundancy and the usage of packet
retransmission. But the additional delay has to be taken into =
account.=A1=B1

=20

What do you think about?

BR

Christian

=20

=20

=20

=20

From: ext Ning Zong [mailto:zongning@huawei.com]=20
Sent: Friday, February 25, 2011 1:28 AM
To: Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN - DE/Munich); 'ext zhangyunfei';
ppsp@ietf.org
Subject: =B4=F0=B8=B4: [ppsp] Draft-ietf-ppsp-req-01

=20

Hi, Schmidt,

=20

Your suggestion is good, although I think this new text could be in
explanatory text rather than in the formal requirement body.

BTW, I have post a new revision -02 and forward the message to the list, =
but
it seems that it doesn=A1=AFt come out. So I attached the link to the =
new
version as below

=20

http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ppsp-reqs-02

The main differences between -02 and -01 can be found in:

http://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-ppsp-reqs-02.txt

=20

BR,

Ning Zong

=20

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: ppsp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] =
=B4=FA=B1=ED Schmidt,
Christian 1. (NSN - DE/Munich)
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2011=C4=EA2=D4=C224=C8=D5 20:56
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: ext zhangyunfei; ppsp@ietf.org
=D6=F7=CC=E2: [ppsp] Draft-ietf-ppsp-req-01

=20

Hi Yunfei,

=20

a proposal related to PPSP.REQ-7:

=20

   =A1=B0PPSP.REQ-7: The Tracker Protocol and Peer Protocol SHOULD =
enable

   peers to receive streaming data within the time constraints required

   by specific content items.=A1=B1

=20

CS: We should be a little bit more specific here. I think, that delay =
will

be the most critical QoS issues, especially for p2p live streaming.

We should add:

=20

Proposal:

   =A1=B0PPSP.REQ-7: The Tracker Protocol and Peer Protocol SHOULD =
enable

   peers to receive streaming data within the time constraints required

   by specific content items. End to end delay will become critical in =
case

   of live streaming. Especially In provisioning of sports events,=20

  end to end delay of 1 minute and more seems to be not =
acceptable.=A1=B1

=20

What do you think about?

Best Regards

Christian

=20


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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DZH-CN link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Hi, =
Schmidt,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I agree that =
these requirements of QoS are important to P2P streaming system. =
However, I still don=A1=AFt see how these QoS requirements impact the =
design of Tracker &amp; Peer Protocol, bearing in mind that our scope is =
not developing a P2P streaming system. Instead, IMO, these requirements =
could be addressed by some video transmission protocols such as those =
developed in AVT WG.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Could you =
give some examples on how these QoS issue will apply to Tracker &amp; =
Peer Protocol?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Thanks.<o:p></=
o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>BR,<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Ning =
Zong<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF =
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft =
style=3D'text-align:left'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'>=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB<sp=
an lang=3DEN-US>:</span></span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'> Schmidt, Christian =
1. (NSN - DE/Munich) [mailto:christian.1.schmidt@nsn.com] =
<br></span><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'>=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=
=E4<span lang=3DEN-US>:</span></span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'> 2011</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'>=C4=EA<span =
lang=3DEN-US>3</span>=D4=C2<span lang=3DEN-US>7</span>=C8=D5<span =
lang=3DEN-US> 18:06<br></span><b>=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB<span =
lang=3DEN-US>:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US> ext Ning Zong; ext =
zhangyunfei; ppsp@ietf.org<br></span><b>=D6=F7=CC=E2<span =
lang=3DEN-US>:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US> RE: [ppsp] =
Draft-ietf-ppsp-req-01<o:p></o:p></span></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DDE =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Hi Ning Zong,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DDE =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>I do not agree, that basic QoS issues should not be a normative =
requirement for PPSP system. I think they are essential to this =
services.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>what about the proposal to include a section Quality of Service =
Requirements?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>QoS.REQ-1:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>=A1=B0Setup time to receive a new streaming channel or to switch =
between channels should be reasonable small. This time mainly depends on =
the size of the receiving buffer.=A1=B1<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>QoS.REQ-2: <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>=A1=B0End =
to end delay (time between content generation, e.g. camera and content =
consumption, e.g. user side monitor) will become critical in case of =
live streaming. Especially In provisioning of sports events, end to end =
delay of 1 minute and more seems to be not =
acceptable.=A1=B1<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>QoS.REQ-3: <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>=A1=B0The =
user should receive an error free copy of the original streaming. This =
can be done with addition of redundancy and the usage of packet =
retransmission. But the additional delay has to be taken into =
account.=A1=B1<span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>What do you think about?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>BR<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Christian<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft =
style=3D'text-align:left'><b><span lang=3DDE =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span lang=3DDE =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> ext Ning =
Zong [mailto:zongning@huawei.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, February 25, =
2011 1:28 AM<br><b>To:</b> Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN - DE/Munich); 'ext =
zhangyunfei'; ppsp@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'>=B4=F0=B8=B4</span><s=
pan lang=3DDE =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>: [ppsp] =
Draft-ietf-ppsp-req-01<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><span =
lang=3DDE><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Hi, =
Schmidt,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Your =
suggestion is good, although I think this new text could be in =
explanatory text rather than in the formal requirement =
body.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>BTW, I have =
post a new revision -02 and forward the message to the list, but it =
seems that it doesn=A1=AFt come out. So I attached the link to the new =
version as below<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><a =
href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ppsp-reqs-02">http://tools.=
ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ppsp-reqs-02</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>The main differences =
between -02 and -01 can be found in:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><a =
href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-ppsp-reqs-02.txt"=
>http://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-ppsp-reqs-02.txt</a><o:p=
></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>BR,<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Ning =
Zong<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF =
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft =
style=3D'text-align:left'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'>=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB</s=
pan></b><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'>:</span></b><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'> <a =
href=3D"mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org">ppsp-bounces@ietf.org</a> <a =
href=3D"mailto:[mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org]">[mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.=
org]</a> </span><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'>=B4=FA=B1=ED =
</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'>Schmidt, Christian =
1. (NSN - DE/Munich)<br></span><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'>=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=
=E4</span></b><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'>:</span></b><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'> =
2011</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'>=C4=EA</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'>2</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'>=D4=C2</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'>24</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'>=C8=D5</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'> =
20:56<br></span><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'>=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB</s=
pan></b><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'>:</span></b><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'> ext =
zhangyunfei; <a =
href=3D"mailto:ppsp@ietf.org">ppsp@ietf.org</a><br></span><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'>=D6=F7=CC=E2</span></=
b><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'>:</span></b><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'> [ppsp] =
Draft-ietf-ppsp-req-01<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DDE =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Hi Yunfei,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DDE =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>a proposal related to PPSP.REQ-7:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =A1=B0PPSP.REQ-7: The Tracker Protocol and Peer Protocol =
SHOULD enable<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;&nbsp; peers to receive streaming data within the time =
constraints required<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;&nbsp; by specific content items.=A1=B1<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:red'>C=
S: We should be a little bit more specific here. I think, that delay =
will<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:red'>b=
e the most critical QoS issues, especially for p2p live =
streaming.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:red'>W=
e should add:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Proposal:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =A1=B0PPSP.REQ-7: The Tracker Protocol and Peer Protocol =
SHOULD enable<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;&nbsp; peers to receive streaming data within the time =
constraints required<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;&nbsp; by specific content items. </span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:red'>E=
nd to end delay will become critical in case<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:red'>&=
nbsp; &nbsp;of live streaming. Especially In provisioning of sports =
events, <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:red'>&=
nbsp;&nbsp;end to end delay of 1 minute and more seems to be not =
acceptable.=A1=B1<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>What do you think about?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Best Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Christian<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div></body></html>=

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Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2011 09:57:41 +0800
From: "zhangyunfei" <zhangyunfei@chinamobile.com>
To: "Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN - DE/" <christian.1.schmidt@nsn.com>, "=?gb2312?B?ZXh0ILXLwenA8i9kZW5nbGluZ2xp?=" <denglingli@chinamobile.com>,  "ppsp@ietf.org" <ppsp@ietf.org>, "dbryan" <dbryan@ethernot.org>, "=?gb2312?B?J7uqzqq5y9Oxvdwn?=" <guyingjie@huawei.com>
References: <201103071946549559227@chinamobile.com> <C58FFCAAA14F454A85AFB7C1C2F862C40199840A@DEMUEXC013.nsn-intra.net> <40828098040C4B0DBDDD0F297A3D930D@denglingli> <C58FFCAAA14F454A85AFB7C1C2F862C401998554@DEMUEXC013.nsn-intra.net>
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From: "Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN - DE/Munich)" <christian.1.schmidt@nsn.com>
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Hi Ning Zong,

=20

yes, I can imagine influences to both.

In case of bad quality at the receiving side, e.g. temporary low =
bandwidth =A8C due to mobility, or improved mobile condition the peer =
protocol could provide related information to the streaming source.

In case of bad quality, resulting from an sub-optimal source peer =
selection (e.g. with insufficient uplink capacity or general too high =
end-to-end delay) the receiving peer can inform the tracker via the =
tracker protocol about this situation and request a new peer selection. =
The tracker can use this information for new source selection requests =
from other peers.

=20

What do you think about this?

=20

Best Regards

Christian=20

=20

From: ext Ning Zong [mailto:zongning@huawei.com]=20
Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 2:40 AM
To: Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN - DE/Munich); 'ext zhangyunfei'; =
ppsp@ietf.org
Subject: =B4=F0=B8=B4: [ppsp] Draft-ietf-ppsp-req-01

=20

Hi, Schmidt,

=20

I agree that these requirements of QoS are important to P2P streaming =
system. However, I still don=A1=AFt see how these QoS requirements =
impact the design of Tracker & Peer Protocol, bearing in mind that our =
scope is not developing a P2P streaming system. Instead, IMO, these =
requirements could be addressed by some video transmission protocols =
such as those developed in AVT WG.

Could you give some examples on how these QoS issue will apply to =
Tracker & Peer Protocol?

Thanks.

=20

BR,

Ning Zong

=20

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN - DE/Munich) =
[mailto:christian.1.schmidt@nsn.com]=20
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2011=C4=EA3=D4=C27=C8=D5 18:06
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: ext Ning Zong; ext zhangyunfei; ppsp@ietf.org
=D6=F7=CC=E2: RE: [ppsp] Draft-ietf-ppsp-req-01

=20

Hi Ning Zong,

=20

I do not agree, that basic QoS issues should not be a normative =
requirement for PPSP system. I think they are essential to this =
services.

what about the proposal to include a section Quality of Service =
Requirements?

=20

QoS.REQ-1:

=A1=B0Setup time to receive a new streaming channel or to switch between =
channels should be reasonable small. This time mainly depends on the =
size of the receiving buffer.=A1=B1

=20

QoS.REQ-2:=20

=A1=B0End to end delay (time between content generation, e.g. camera and =
content consumption, e.g. user side monitor) will become critical in =
case of live streaming. Especially In provisioning of sports events, end =
to end delay of 1 minute and more seems to be not acceptable.=A1=B1

=20

QoS.REQ-3:=20

=A1=B0The user should receive an error free copy of the original =
streaming. This can be done with addition of redundancy and the usage of =
packet retransmission. But the additional delay has to be taken into =
account.=A1=B1

=20

What do you think about?

BR

Christian

=20

=20

=20

=20

From: ext Ning Zong [mailto:zongning@huawei.com]=20
Sent: Friday, February 25, 2011 1:28 AM
To: Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN - DE/Munich); 'ext zhangyunfei'; =
ppsp@ietf.org
Subject: =B4=F0=B8=B4: [ppsp] Draft-ietf-ppsp-req-01

=20

Hi, Schmidt,

=20

Your suggestion is good, although I think this new text could be in =
explanatory text rather than in the formal requirement body.

BTW, I have post a new revision -02 and forward the message to the list, =
but it seems that it doesn=A1=AFt come out. So I attached the link to =
the new version as below

=20

http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ppsp-reqs-02

The main differences between -02 and -01 can be found in:

http://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-ppsp-reqs-02.txt

=20

BR,

Ning Zong

=20

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: ppsp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] =
=B4=FA=B1=ED Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN - DE/Munich)
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2011=C4=EA2=D4=C224=C8=D5 20:56
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: ext zhangyunfei; ppsp@ietf.org
=D6=F7=CC=E2: [ppsp] Draft-ietf-ppsp-req-01

=20

Hi Yunfei,

=20

a proposal related to PPSP.REQ-7:

=20

   =A1=B0PPSP.REQ-7: The Tracker Protocol and Peer Protocol SHOULD =
enable

   peers to receive streaming data within the time constraints required

   by specific content items.=A1=B1

=20

CS: We should be a little bit more specific here. I think, that delay =
will

be the most critical QoS issues, especially for p2p live streaming.

We should add:

=20

Proposal:

   =A1=B0PPSP.REQ-7: The Tracker Protocol and Peer Protocol SHOULD =
enable

   peers to receive streaming data within the time constraints required

   by specific content items. End to end delay will become critical in =
case

   of live streaming. Especially In provisioning of sports events,=20

  end to end delay of 1 minute and more seems to be not =
acceptable.=A1=B1

=20

What do you think about?

Best Regards

Christian

=20


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<o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit">
<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DDE link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Hi Ning Zong,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>yes, I can imagine influences to both.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>In case of bad quality at the receiving side, e.g. temporary low =
bandwidth =A8C due to mobility, or improved mobile condition the peer =
protocol could provide related information to the streaming =
source.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>In case of bad quality, resulting from an sub-optimal source peer =
selection (e.g. with insufficient uplink capacity or general too high =
end-to-end delay) the receiving peer can inform the tracker via the =
tracker protocol about this situation and request a new peer selection. =
The tracker can use this information for new source selection requests =
from other peers.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>What do you think about this?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Best Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Christian <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft =
style=3D'text-align:left'><b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> ext Ning =
Zong [mailto:zongning@huawei.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, March 08, =
2011 2:40 AM<br><b>To:</b> Schmidt</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>, Christian =
1. (NSN - DE/Munich); 'ext zhangyunfei'; =
ppsp@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> </span><span lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=B4=F0=B8=B4</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>: [ppsp] =
Draft-ietf-ppsp-req-01<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft =
style=3D'text-align:left'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Hi, =
Schmidt,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I agree that =
these requirements of QoS are important to P2P streaming system. =
However, I still don=A1=AFt see how these QoS requirements impact the =
design of Tracker &amp; Peer Protocol, bearing in mind that our scope is =
not developing a P2P streaming system. Instead, IMO, these requirements =
could be addressed by some video transmission protocols such as those =
developed in AVT WG.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Could you =
give some examples on how these QoS issue will apply to Tracker &amp; =
Peer Protocol?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Thanks.<o:p></=
o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>BR,<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Ning =
Zong<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF =
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft =
style=3D'text-align:left'><b><span lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB</span></=
b><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>:</span></b><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'> Schmidt, =
Christian 1. (NSN - DE/Munich) [mailto:christian.1.schmidt@nsn.com] =
<br></span><b><span lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4</s=
pan></b><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>:</span></b><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'> =
2011</span><span lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=C4=EA</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>3</span><span =
lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=D4=C2</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>7</span><span =
lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=C8=D5</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'> =
18:06<br></span><b><span lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB</span></=
b><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>:</span></b><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'> ext Ning =
Zong; ext zhangyunfei; ppsp@ietf.org<br></span><b><span lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=D6=F7=CC=E2</span></b><b><=
span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>:</span></b><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'> RE: [ppsp] =
Draft-ietf-ppsp-req-01<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Hi Ning Zong,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>I do not agree, that basic QoS issues should not be a normative =
requirement for PPSP system. I think they are essential to this =
services.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>what about the proposal to include a section Quality of Service =
Requirements?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>QoS.REQ-1:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>=A1=B0Setup time to receive a new streaming channel or to switch =
between channels should be reasonable small. This time mainly depends on =
the size of the receiving buffer.=A1=B1<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>QoS.REQ-2: <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>=A1=B0End =
to end delay (time between content generation, e.g. camera and content =
consumption, e.g. user side monitor) will become critical in case of =
live streaming. Especially In provisioning of sports events, end to end =
delay of 1 minute and more seems to be not =
acceptable.=A1=B1<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>QoS.REQ-3: <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>=A1=B0The =
user should receive an error free copy of the original streaming. This =
can be done with addition of redundancy and the usage of packet =
retransmission. But the additional delay has to be taken into =
account.=A1=B1<span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>What do you think about?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>BR<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Christian<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft =
style=3D'text-align:left'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
ext Ning Zong [mailto:zongning@huawei.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, =
February 25, 2011 1:28 AM<br><b>To:</b> Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN - =
DE/Munich); 'ext zhangyunfei'; ppsp@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> =
</span><span lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=B4=F0=B8=B4</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>: [ppsp] =
Draft-ietf-ppsp-req-01<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft =
style=3D'text-align:left'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Hi, =
Schmidt,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Your =
suggestion is good, although I think this new text could be in =
explanatory text rather than in the formal requirement =
body.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>BTW, I have =
post a new revision -02 and forward the message to the list, but it =
seems that it doesn=A1=AFt come out. So I attached the link to the new =
version as below<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><a =
href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ppsp-reqs-02">http://tools.=
ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ppsp-reqs-02</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>The main differences =
between -02 and -01 can be found in:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><a =
href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-ppsp-reqs-02.txt"=
>http://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-ppsp-reqs-02.txt</a><o:p=
></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>BR,<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Ning =
Zong<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF =
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft =
style=3D'text-align:left'><b><span lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB</span></=
b><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>:</span></b><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'> <a =
href=3D"mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org">ppsp-bounces@ietf.org</a> <a =
href=3D"mailto:[mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org]">[mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.=
org]</a> </span><b><span lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=B4=FA=B1=ED</span></b><b><=
span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'> =
</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN =
- DE/Munich)<br></span><b><span lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4</s=
pan></b><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>:</span></b><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'> =
2011</span><span lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=C4=EA</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>2</span><span =
lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=D4=C2</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>24</span><span =
lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=C8=D5</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'> =
20:56<br></span><b><span lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB</span></=
b><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>:</span></b><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'> ext =
zhangyunfei; <a =
href=3D"mailto:ppsp@ietf.org">ppsp@ietf.org</a><br></span><b><span =
lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=D6=F7=CC=E2</span></b><b><=
span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>:</span></b><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'> [ppsp] =
Draft-ietf-ppsp-req-01<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Hi Yunfei,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>a proposal related to PPSP.REQ-7:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =A1=B0PPSP.REQ-7: The Tracker Protocol and Peer Protocol =
SHOULD enable<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;&nbsp; peers to receive streaming data within the time =
constraints required<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;&nbsp; by specific content items.=A1=B1<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:red'>C=
S: We should be a little bit more specific here. I think, that delay =
will<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:red'>b=
e the most critical QoS issues, especially for p2p live =
streaming.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:red'>W=
e should add:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Proposal:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =A1=B0PPSP.REQ-7: The Tracker Protocol and Peer Protocol =
SHOULD enable<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;&nbsp; peers to receive streaming data within the time =
constraints required<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;&nbsp; by specific content items. </span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:red'>E=
nd to end delay will become critical in case<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:red'>&=
nbsp; &nbsp;of live streaming. Especially In provisioning of sports =
events, <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:red'>&=
nbsp;&nbsp;end to end delay of 1 minute and more seems to be not =
acceptable.=A1=B1<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>What do you think about?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Best Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Christian<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div></body></html>
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Subject: [ppsp] Supporting DECADE in PPSP
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Hi, all

We submitted a new draft about supporting DECADE in PPSP. It can be 
accessed at 
http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-le-ppsp-decade-interoperation-00.txt
Comments are welcome.

BR
Lichun

A new version of I-D, draft-le-ppsp-decade-interoperation-00.txt has been 
successfully submitted by Guan Le and posted to the IETF repository.

Filename:                 draft-le-ppsp-decade-interoperation
Revision:                 00
Title:                            PPSP Usage for DECADE
Creation_date:            2011-03-07
WG ID:                            Independent Submission
Number_of_pages: 14

Abstract:
P2P Streaming has become popular application in the Internet.
Currently, most home subscribers access Internet via ADSL, in which
downlink bandwidth and uplink bandwidth are not symmetric.  This
feature would influence the performance of P2P Streaming, and the
problem may be worse in mobile scenarios.  This draft presents the
interoperation between PPSP protocol and DECADE protocol to provide
DECADE service for PPSP applications.  Typically, there are two
solution to achieve interoperation, loose interoperation among peers,
and close interoperation via connection of peer and tracker.  By
introducing DECADE in both tracker protocol and peer protocol, PPSP
streaming can alleviate strength of upload bandwidth and improve
performance for fix and mobile scenario.
  


The IETF Secretariat.





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Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"


<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Hi, all</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">We submitted a new draft about supporting
DECADE in PPSP. It can be accessed at http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-le-ppsp-decade-interoperation-00.txt</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Comments are welcome.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">BR</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Lichun</font>
<br><tt><font size=2><br>
A new version of I-D, draft-le-ppsp-decade-interoperation-00.txt has been
successfully submitted by Guan Le and posted to the IETF repository.<br>
<br>
Filename: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
&nbsp;draft-le-ppsp-decade-interoperation<br>
Revision: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
&nbsp;00<br>
Title: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
PPSP Usage for DECADE<br>
Creation_date: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
&nbsp; &nbsp;2011-03-07<br>
WG ID: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
Independent Submission<br>
Number_of_pages: 14<br>
<br>
Abstract:<br>
P2P Streaming has become popular application in the Internet.<br>
Currently, most home subscribers access Internet via ADSL, in which<br>
downlink bandwidth and uplink bandwidth are not symmetric. &nbsp;This<br>
feature would influence the performance of P2P Streaming, and the<br>
problem may be worse in mobile scenarios. &nbsp;This draft presents the<br>
interoperation between PPSP protocol and DECADE protocol to provide<br>
DECADE service for PPSP applications. &nbsp;Typically, there are two<br>
solution to achieve interoperation, loose interoperation among peers,<br>
and close interoperation via connection of peer and tracker. &nbsp;By<br>
introducing DECADE in both tracker protocol and peer protocol, PPSP<br>
streaming can alleviate strength of upload bandwidth and improve<br>
performance for fix and mobile scenario.<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;<br>
<br>
<br>
The IETF Secretariat.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</font></tt><br><pre>
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Peer to Peer Streaming Protocol Working Group of the IETF.


	Title           : Survey of P2P Streaming Applications
	Author(s)       : G. Yingjie, et al.
	Filename        : draft-ietf-ppsp-survey-01.txt
	Pages           : 35
	Date            : 2011-03-11

This document presents a survey of popular Peer-to-Peer streaming
applications on the Internet.  We focus on the Architecture and Peer
Protocol/Tracker Signaling Protocol description in the presentation,
and study a selection of well-known P2P streaming systems, including
Joost, PPlive, andother popular existing systems.  Through the
survey, we summarize a common P2P streaming process model and the
correspondent signaling process for P2P Streaming Protocol
standardization.

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From zongning@huawei.com  Tue Mar 15 17:48:01 2011
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Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 08:49:05 +0800
From: Ning Zong <zongning@huawei.com>
In-reply-to: <C58FFCAAA14F454A85AFB7C1C2F862C401998731@DEMUEXC013.nsn-intra.net>
To: "'Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN - DE/Munich)'" <christian.1.schmidt@nsn.com>,  'ext zhangyunfei' <zhangyunfei@chinamobile.com>, ppsp@ietf.org
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Subject: [ppsp] =?gb2312?b?tPC4tDogIERyYWZ0LWlldGYtcHBzcC1yZXEtMDE=?=
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Hi Christian

=20

Sorry for the late reply. I believe what you have described are good for
PPSP QoS.

We do have such description that PPSP protocol MAY support including
requesting peer=A1=AFs preference for QoS purpose (see TP.REQ-3). But we =
don=A1=AFt
make it as formal requirement since the application can handle this =A8C =
for
example, application can try more peers once bad quality is detected.

Anyway, we can put this QoS issue in our presentation slides and discuss =
on
the Prague meeting.

=20

=20

BR,

Ning Zong

=20

=20

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN - DE/Munich)
[mailto:christian.1.schmidt@nsn.com]=20
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2011=C4=EA3=D4=C28=C8=D5 14:42
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: ext Ning Zong; ext zhangyunfei; ppsp@ietf.org
=D6=F7=CC=E2: RE: [ppsp] Draft-ietf-ppsp-req-01

=20

Hi Ning Zong,

=20

yes, I can imagine influences to both.

In case of bad quality at the receiving side, e.g. temporary low =
bandwidth
=A8C due to mobility, or improved mobile condition the peer protocol =
could
provide related information to the streaming source.

In case of bad quality, resulting from an sub-optimal source peer =
selection
(e.g. with insufficient uplink capacity or general too high end-to-end
delay) the receiving peer can inform the tracker via the tracker =
protocol
about this situation and request a new peer selection. The tracker can =
use
this information for new source selection requests from other peers.

=20

What do you think about this?

=20

Best Regards

Christian=20

=20

From: ext Ning Zong [mailto:zongning@huawei.com]=20
Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 2:40 AM
To: Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN - DE/Munich); 'ext zhangyunfei';
ppsp@ietf.org
Subject: =B4=F0=B8=B4: [ppsp] Draft-ietf-ppsp-req-01

=20

Hi, Schmidt,

=20

I agree that these requirements of QoS are important to P2P streaming
system. However, I still don=A1=AFt see how these QoS requirements =
impact the
design of Tracker & Peer Protocol, bearing in mind that our scope is not
developing a P2P streaming system. Instead, IMO, these requirements =
could be
addressed by some video transmission protocols such as those developed =
in
AVT WG.

Could you give some examples on how these QoS issue will apply to =
Tracker &
Peer Protocol?

Thanks.

=20

BR,

Ning Zong

=20

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN - DE/Munich)
[mailto:christian.1.schmidt@nsn.com]=20
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2011=C4=EA3=D4=C27=C8=D5 18:06
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: ext Ning Zong; ext zhangyunfei; ppsp@ietf.org
=D6=F7=CC=E2: RE: [ppsp] Draft-ietf-ppsp-req-01

=20

Hi Ning Zong,

=20

I do not agree, that basic QoS issues should not be a normative =
requirement
for PPSP system. I think they are essential to this services.

what about the proposal to include a section Quality of Service
Requirements?

=20

QoS.REQ-1:

=A1=B0Setup time to receive a new streaming channel or to switch between
channels should be reasonable small. This time mainly depends on the =
size of
the receiving buffer.=A1=B1

=20

QoS.REQ-2:=20

=A1=B0End to end delay (time between content generation, e.g. camera and =
content
consumption, e.g. user side monitor) will become critical in case of =
live
streaming. Especially In provisioning of sports events, end to end delay =
of
1 minute and more seems to be not acceptable.=A1=B1

=20

QoS.REQ-3:=20

=A1=B0The user should receive an error free copy of the original =
streaming. This
can be done with addition of redundancy and the usage of packet
retransmission. But the additional delay has to be taken into =
account.=A1=B1

=20

What do you think about?

BR

Christian

=20

=20

=20

=20

From: ext Ning Zong [mailto:zongning@huawei.com]=20
Sent: Friday, February 25, 2011 1:28 AM
To: Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN - DE/Munich); 'ext zhangyunfei';
ppsp@ietf.org
Subject: =B4=F0=B8=B4: [ppsp] Draft-ietf-ppsp-req-01

=20

Hi, Schmidt,

=20

Your suggestion is good, although I think this new text could be in
explanatory text rather than in the formal requirement body.

BTW, I have post a new revision -02 and forward the message to the list, =
but
it seems that it doesn=A1=AFt come out. So I attached the link to the =
new
version as below

=20

http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ppsp-reqs-02

The main differences between -02 and -01 can be found in:

http://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-ppsp-reqs-02.txt

=20

BR,

Ning Zong

=20

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: ppsp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] =
=B4=FA=B1=ED Schmidt,
Christian 1. (NSN - DE/Munich)
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2011=C4=EA2=D4=C224=C8=D5 20:56
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: ext zhangyunfei; ppsp@ietf.org
=D6=F7=CC=E2: [ppsp] Draft-ietf-ppsp-req-01

=20

Hi Yunfei,

=20

a proposal related to PPSP.REQ-7:

=20

   =A1=B0PPSP.REQ-7: The Tracker Protocol and Peer Protocol SHOULD =
enable

   peers to receive streaming data within the time constraints required

   by specific content items.=A1=B1

=20

CS: We should be a little bit more specific here. I think, that delay =
will

be the most critical QoS issues, especially for p2p live streaming.

We should add:

=20

Proposal:

   =A1=B0PPSP.REQ-7: The Tracker Protocol and Peer Protocol SHOULD =
enable

   peers to receive streaming data within the time constraints required

   by specific content items. End to end delay will become critical in =
case

   of live streaming. Especially In provisioning of sports events,=20

  end to end delay of 1 minute and more seems to be not =
acceptable.=A1=B1

=20

What do you think about?

Best Regards

Christian

=20


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vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Hi =
Christian<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Sorry for the =
late reply. I believe what you have described are good for PPSP =
QoS.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>We do have =
such description that PPSP protocol MAY support including requesting =
peer=A1=AFs preference for QoS purpose (see TP.REQ-3). But we don=A1=AFt =
make it as formal requirement since the application can handle this =A8C =
for example, application can try more peers once bad quality is =
detected.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Anyway, we =
can put this QoS issue in our presentation slides and discuss on the =
Prague meeting.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>BR,<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Ning =
Zong<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF =
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft =
style=3D'text-align:left'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'>=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB<sp=
an lang=3DEN-US>:</span></span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'> Schmidt, Christian =
1. (NSN - DE/Munich) [mailto:christian.1.schmidt@nsn.com] =
<br></span><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'>=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=
=E4<span lang=3DEN-US>:</span></span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'> 2011</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'>=C4=EA<span =
lang=3DEN-US>3</span>=D4=C2<span lang=3DEN-US>8</span>=C8=D5<span =
lang=3DEN-US> 14:42<br></span><b>=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB<span =
lang=3DEN-US>:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US> ext Ning Zong; ext =
zhangyunfei; ppsp@ietf.org<br></span><b>=D6=F7=CC=E2<span =
lang=3DEN-US>:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US> RE: [ppsp] =
Draft-ietf-ppsp-req-01<o:p></o:p></span></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DDE =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Hi Ning Zong,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DDE =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>yes, I can imagine influences to both.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>In case of bad quality at the receiving side, e.g. temporary low =
bandwidth =A8C due to mobility, or improved mobile condition the peer =
protocol could provide related information to the streaming =
source.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>In case of bad quality, resulting from an sub-optimal source peer =
selection (e.g. with insufficient uplink capacity or general too high =
end-to-end delay) the receiving peer can inform the tracker via the =
tracker protocol about this situation and request a new peer selection. =
The tracker can use this information for new source selection requests =
from other peers.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>What do you think about this?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Best Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Christian <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft =
style=3D'text-align:left'><b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> ext Ning =
Zong [mailto:zongning@huawei.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, March 08, =
2011 2:40 AM<br><b>To:</b> Schmidt</span><span lang=3DDE =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>, Christian =
1. (NSN - DE/Munich); 'ext zhangyunfei'; =
ppsp@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'>=B4=F0=B8=B4</span><s=
pan lang=3DDE =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>: [ppsp] =
Draft-ietf-ppsp-req-01<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><span =
lang=3DDE><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Hi, =
Schmidt,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I agree that =
these requirements of QoS are important to P2P streaming system. =
However, I still don=A1=AFt see how these QoS requirements impact the =
design of Tracker &amp; Peer Protocol, bearing in mind that our scope is =
not developing a P2P streaming system. Instead, IMO, these requirements =
could be addressed by some video transmission protocols such as those =
developed in AVT WG.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Could you =
give some examples on how these QoS issue will apply to Tracker &amp; =
Peer Protocol?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Thanks.<o:p></=
o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>BR,<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Ning =
Zong<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF =
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft =
style=3D'text-align:left'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'>=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB</s=
pan></b><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'>:</span></b><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'> =
Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN - DE/Munich) =
[mailto:christian.1.schmidt@nsn.com] <br></span><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'>=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=
=E4</span></b><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'>:</span></b><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'> =
2011</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'>=C4=EA</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'>3</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'>=D4=C2</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'>7</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'>=C8=D5</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'> =
18:06<br></span><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'>=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB</s=
pan></b><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'>:</span></b><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'> ext =
Ning Zong; ext zhangyunfei; ppsp@ietf.org<br></span><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'>=D6=F7=CC=E2</span></=
b><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'>:</span></b><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'> RE: =
[ppsp] Draft-ietf-ppsp-req-01<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DDE =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Hi Ning Zong,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DDE =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>I do not agree, that basic QoS issues should not be a normative =
requirement for PPSP system. I think they are essential to this =
services.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>what about the proposal to include a section Quality of Service =
Requirements?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>QoS.REQ-1:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>=A1=B0Setup time to receive a new streaming channel or to switch =
between channels should be reasonable small. This time mainly depends on =
the size of the receiving buffer.=A1=B1<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>QoS.REQ-2: <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>=A1=B0End =
to end delay (time between content generation, e.g. camera and content =
consumption, e.g. user side monitor) will become critical in case of =
live streaming. Especially In provisioning of sports events, end to end =
delay of 1 minute and more seems to be not =
acceptable.=A1=B1<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>QoS.REQ-3: <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>=A1=B0The =
user should receive an error free copy of the original streaming. This =
can be done with addition of redundancy and the usage of packet =
retransmission. But the additional delay has to be taken into =
account.=A1=B1<span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>What do you think about?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>BR<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Christian<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft =
style=3D'text-align:left'><b><span lang=3DDE =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span lang=3DDE =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> ext Ning =
Zong [mailto:zongning@huawei.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, February 25, =
2011 1:28 AM<br><b>To:</b> Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN - DE/Munich); 'ext =
zhangyunfei'; ppsp@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'>=B4=F0=B8=B4</span><s=
pan lang=3DDE =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>: [ppsp] =
Draft-ietf-ppsp-req-01<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><span =
lang=3DDE><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Hi, =
Schmidt,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Your =
suggestion is good, although I think this new text could be in =
explanatory text rather than in the formal requirement =
body.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>BTW, I have =
post a new revision -02 and forward the message to the list, but it =
seems that it doesn=A1=AFt come out. So I attached the link to the new =
version as below<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><a =
href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ppsp-reqs-02">http://tools.=
ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ppsp-reqs-02</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>The main differences =
between -02 and -01 can be found in:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><a =
href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-ppsp-reqs-02.txt"=
>http://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-ppsp-reqs-02.txt</a><o:p=
></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>BR,<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Ning =
Zong<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF =
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft =
style=3D'text-align:left'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'>=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB</s=
pan></b><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'>:</span></b><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'> <a =
href=3D"mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org">ppsp-bounces@ietf.org</a> <a =
href=3D"mailto:[mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org]">[mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.=
org]</a> </span><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'>=B4=FA=B1=ED =
</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'>Schmidt, Christian =
1. (NSN - DE/Munich)<br></span><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'>=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=
=E4</span></b><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'>:</span></b><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'> =
2011</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'>=C4=EA</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'>2</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'>=D4=C2</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'>24</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'>=C8=D5</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'> <span =
lang=3DEN-US>20:56<br></span></span><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'>=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB</s=
pan></b><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'>:</span></b><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'> ext =
zhangyunfei; <a =
href=3D"mailto:ppsp@ietf.org">ppsp@ietf.org</a><br></span><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'>=D6=F7=CC=E2</span></=
b><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'>:</span></b><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5'> [ppsp] =
Draft-ietf-ppsp-req-01<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DDE =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Hi Yunfei,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DDE =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>a proposal related to PPSP.REQ-7:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =A1=B0PPSP.REQ-7: The Tracker Protocol and Peer Protocol =
SHOULD enable<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;&nbsp; peers to receive streaming data within the time =
constraints required<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;&nbsp; by specific content items.=A1=B1<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:red'>C=
S: We should be a little bit more specific here. I think, that delay =
will<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:red'>b=
e the most critical QoS issues, especially for p2p live =
streaming.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:red'>W=
e should add:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Proposal:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =A1=B0PPSP.REQ-7: The Tracker Protocol and Peer Protocol =
SHOULD enable<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;&nbsp; peers to receive streaming data within the time =
constraints required<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;&nbsp; by specific content items. </span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:red'>E=
nd to end delay will become critical in case<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:red'>&=
nbsp; &nbsp;of live streaming. Especially In provisioning of sports =
events, <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:red'>&=
nbsp;&nbsp;end to end delay of 1 minute and more seems to be not =
acceptable.=A1=B1<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>What do you think about?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Best Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Christian<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div></body></html>=

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Subject: [ppsp] PPSP draft agenda in IETF80
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Hi all,
    The initial draft agenda of PPSP is available at http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/80/agenda/ppsp.txt. Please let Cullen and me know if there are any missing requests. Thanks.

BR
Yunfei




zhangyunfei
2011-03-16

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<DIV><FONT face=Verdana><FONT size=2>Hi all,</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana><FONT size=2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; The initial draft agenda 
of PPSP is available at <A 
href="http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/80/agenda/ppsp.txt">http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/80/agenda/ppsp.txt</A>. 
Please let Cullen and me know if there are any missing requests. 
Thanks.</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana><FONT size=2></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana><FONT size=2>BR</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana><FONT size=2>Yunfei</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV align=left><FONT size=2>
<HR style="WIDTH: 122px; HEIGHT: 2px" SIZE=2>
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#c0c0c0><FONT size=2>zhangyunfei</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>2011-03-16</FONT></FONT></DIV></FONT></BODY></HTML>

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Hi all,
   Please send your slides to be presented in this IETF PPSP WG meeting to Cullen and me by Saturday(local time in Prague) and be sure to send the updated version by Sunday night 6:00 PM if you have any modification. See you in Prague.


BR
Yunfei




zhangyunfei
2011-03-24

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<DIV><FONT face=Verdana><FONT size=2>Hi all,</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana>&nbsp;&nbsp; Please send your slides to be 
presented in this IETF PPSP WG meeting to Cullen and me by Saturday(local time 
in Prague) and be sure to send the updated version by Sunday night 6:00 PM if 
you have any modification. See you in Prague.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana>BR</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana>Yunfei</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
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<HR style="WIDTH: 122px; HEIGHT: 2px" SIZE=2>
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<DIV><FONT color=#c0c0c0><FONT size=2 face=Verdana>zhangyunfei</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana>2011-03-24</FONT></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From zhangyunfei@chinamobile.com  Sun Mar 27 02:28:41 2011
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Hi all,
    All the PPSP slides have been uploaded and please send the new version =
to cullen and me if you have any updates on the slides by tonight 6:00 PM. =
See you tommorow morning.
=20
BR
Yunfei
=20

From fluffy@cisco.com  Mon Mar 28 02:25:39 2011
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Subject: [ppsp] Notes from PPSP meeting IETF80
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A few notes I took from the meeting

First, thank you to Christian Schmidt for taking minutes and Martin =
Stiemerling for jabber scribing.

We need to prioritize the use cases and decide what we will work on =
first.=20

draft-ietf-ppsp-problem-statement is getting close to WGLC=20

We will likely adopt draft-gu-ppsp-tracker-protocol as a WG item

Were about 60 people in room=20





From lars.eggert@nokia.com  Mon Mar 28 08:03:55 2011
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Hi,

Cullen has informed us that he needs to step down as co-chair for PPSP =
due to time pressure. I have selected Martin Stiemerling as his =
replacement.

Thank you, Cullen, for helping to get PPSP chartered and then seeing it =
off to a good start!

Lars=

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Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 16:10:51 +0800
From: "zhangyunfei" <zhangyunfei@chinamobile.com>
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Subject: [ppsp] Adding the security requirement for data intergrity check in the PPSP requirement draft
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Hi all,
    As has added in the new version of problem statement on the security treat from the malicious peer to report fake information, shall we add the security requirement for data integrity check in the PPSP requirement draft?
    I notice that the current requirment draft has mentioned the requirement to detect the malicious peers, but regarding data integrity check, current draft doesn't include the requirement.

BR
Yunfei




zhangyunfei
2011-03-29

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<DIV><FONT face=Verdana><FONT size=2>Hi all,</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana><FONT size=2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; As has added in the new 
version of problem statement on the security treat from the malicious peer to 
report fake information, shall we add the security requirement for data 
integrity check in the PPSP requirement draft?</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana><FONT size=2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I notice that the 
current requirment draft has mentioned the requirement to&nbsp;detect the 
malicious peers, but regarding data integrity check, current draft doesn't 
include the requirement.</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana><FONT size=2></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana><FONT size=2>BR</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana><FONT size=2>Yunfei</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV align=left><FONT size=2>
<HR style="WIDTH: 122px; HEIGHT: 2px" SIZE=2>
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#c0c0c0><FONT size=2>zhangyunfei</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>2011-03-29</FONT></FONT></DIV></FONT></BODY></HTML>

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From Martin.Stiemerling@neclab.eu  Tue Mar 29 06:33:21 2011
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From: Martin Stiemerling <Martin.Stiemerling@neclab.eu>
To: "ppsp@ietf.org" <ppsp@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [ppsp] co-chair change
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Hi all,

Thanks to Cullen also from my side!


Most of you will have seen me either on the mailing list or during the meet=
ings at the microphone. However, here is a brief introduction of myself:

I'm working for the NEC Labs Europe in Heidelberg which is a R&D facility. =
My work areas are P2P-TV, video distribution, Internet signaling, virtual n=
etworks, and of course IETF standardization (ALTO, PPSP, MMUSIC, VNRG, etc)=
.

I'm still around for the whole week, so we probably will see each other.

Thanks,

  Martin

martin.stiemerling@neclab.eu

NEC Laboratories Europe - Network Research Division
NEC Europe Limited | Registered Office: NEC House, 1 Victoria Road, London =
W3 6BL | Registered in England 2832014=20

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ppsp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
> Lars Eggert
> Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 5:05 PM
> To: ppsp@ietf.org
> Subject: [ppsp] co-chair change
>=20
> Hi,
>=20
> Cullen has informed us that he needs to step down as co-chair for PPSP
> due to time pressure. I have selected Martin Stiemerling as his
> replacement.
>=20
> Thank you, Cullen, for helping to get PPSP chartered and then seeing it
> off to a good start!
>=20
> Lars

From christian.1.schmidt@nsn.com  Wed Mar 30 01:00:10 2011
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From: "Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN - DE/Munich)" <christian.1.schmidt@nsn.com>
To: "ext Ning Zong" <zongning@huawei.com>, "zhangyunfei" <zhangyunfei@chinamobile.com>, <ppsp@ietf.org>
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Cc: Carl Williams <carl.williams@zteusa.com>
Subject: Re: [ppsp] Adding the security requirement for data intergrity check in the PPSPrequirement draft
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Hi, 

do not put each kind of security check as separated requirement item, only the important ones. The possibility to protect users from fake content is important for this service and should be added as separate requirement.

 

BR

Christian

 

From: ppsp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of ext Ning Zong
Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2011 10:48 AM
To: zhangyunfei; ppsp@ietf.org
Cc: Carl Williams
Subject: Re: [ppsp] Adding the security requirement for data intergrity check in the PPSPrequirement draft

 

Hi$B!$(Jall,

 

I agree this data integrity check is important. Just want to hear more opinion on whether to put each kind of secury check as separated requirement item?

Thanks.

 

BR,

Ning Zong

 

________________________________

Hi all,

    As has added in the new version of problem statement on the security treat from the malicious peer to report fake information, shall we add the security requirement for data integrity check in the PPSP requirement draft?

    I notice that the current requirment draft has mentioned the requirement to detect the malicious peers, but regarding data integrity check, current draft doesn't include the requirement.

 

BR

Yunfei

 

________________________________

zhangyunfei

2011-03-29

________________________________


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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=DE link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB>Hi, <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB>do not put each kind of security check as separated requirement item, only the important ones. The possibility to protect users from fake content is important for this service and should be added as separate requirement.</span><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB>BR<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB>Christian<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style!
 ='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> ppsp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>ext Ning Zong<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, March 29, 2011 10:48 AM<br><b>To:</b> zhangyunfei; ppsp@ietf.org<br><b>Cc:</b> Carl Williams<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [ppsp] Adding the security requirement for data intergrity check in the PPSPrequirement draft<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>Hi<span lang=ZH-CN>$B!$(B</span>all,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>I agree this data integrity check is important. Just want to&nbsp;hear more opinion on&nbsp;whether to put each kind of secury check as separated requirement item?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Thanks.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p clas!
 s=MsoNormal>BR,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Ni!
 ng Zong<
o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><hr size=2 width="100%" align=center></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>Hi all,</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; As has added in the new version of problem statement on the security treat from the malicious peer to report fake information, shall we add the security requirement for data integrity check in the PPSP requirement draft?</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I notice that the current requirment draft has mentioned the requirement to&nbsp;detect the malicious peers, but regarding data integrity check, current draft doesn't include the requirement.</span><o:p></o:p></p>!
 </div><div><p class=MsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>BR</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>Yunfei</span><span style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><hr size=2 width=122 style='width:91.5pt' align=center></span></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:silver'>zhangyunfei</span><span style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:silver'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:silver'>2011-03-29</span!
 ><span style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p><!
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From: "Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN - DE/Munich)" <christian.1.schmidt@nsn.com>
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Hi Lingli Deng, Yunfei and Ning Zong,

I like your proposal. Perhaps one minor think, what do you mean with

in case of distrustful tracker/peer distribution

=20

Am I right, that you do not mean, that the distribution is distrustful, =
but the tracker or one or more peers? What about

in case of distrustful tracker/peers

=20

BR

Christian

=20

=20

From: ppsp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of =
ext ???/denglingli
Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 3:55 AM
To: 'Ning Zong'; 'zhangyunfei'; ppsp@ietf.org
Cc: 'Carl Williams'
Subject: [ppsp] ***SPAM*** 8.537 (5) =B4=F0=B8=B4: Adding the security =
requirement for data intergrity check in the PPSPrequirement draft

=20

Hi Yunfei, Ning Zong and Christian

=20

I agree with Christian=A1=AFs initial proposal for the peer protocol =
security issues to=20

address the integrity check requirement as follows: (with minor =
modification=20

according to some later discussion)

=20

Current text:

=20

   Similar to the behaviour in the tracker-peer interaction, malicious

   peers may also create fake information on chunk availability and

   exchange it with other peers. Some techniques to check the data

   integrity (e.g., using checksum) may be useful for detecting the =
data.

   But this part is out of scope of PPSP.

=20

Proposed new text:  =20

=20

   Similar to the behaviour in the tracker-peer interaction, malicious

   peers may also create fake information on chunk availability and

   exchange it with other peers.=20

=20

   Malicious peers can also modify stream contents. Some techniques=20

   are available and useful to check the data integrity (e.g., using =
checksum).

   The related information can be received from the tracker/peer via the =


tracker/peer protocol.   Additional mechanism will be needed to ensure =
the

authenticity of the checksum information in case of distrustful =
tracker/peer=20

distribution. The selection of a certain mechanism for this purpose is =
out of=20

scope for PPSP.

=20

BR

Lingli Deng

=20

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: ppsp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] =
=B4=FA=B1=ED Ning Zong
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2011=C4=EA3=D4=C229=C8=D5 16:48
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: zhangyunfei; ppsp@ietf.org
=B3=AD=CB=CD: Carl Williams
=D6=F7=CC=E2: Re: [ppsp] Adding the security requirement for data =
intergrity check in the PPSPrequirement draft

=20

Hi=A3=ACall,

=20

I agree this data integrity check is important. Just want to hear more =
opinion on whether to put each kind of secury check as separated =
requirement item?

Thanks.

=20

BR,

Ning Zong

=20

________________________________

Hi all,

    As has added in the new version of problem statement on the security =
treat from the malicious peer to report fake information, shall we add =
the security requirement for data integrity check in the PPSP =
requirement draft?

    I notice that the current requirment draft has mentioned the =
requirement to detect the malicious peers, but regarding data integrity =
check, current draft doesn't include the requirement.

=20

BR

Yunfei

=20

________________________________

zhangyunfei

2011-03-29

________________________________


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style=3D'text-indent:5.5pt'><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:red;ba=
ckground:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow'>in case of distrustful =
tracker/peer distribution</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:red'><=
o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-indent:5.5pt'><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:red'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Am I right, that you do not mean, that the distribution is =
distrustful, but the tracker or one or more peers? What =
about</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:red'><=
o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-indent:5.5pt'><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:red;ba=
ckground:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow'>in case of distrustful =
tracker/peers</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:red'><=
o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-indent:5.5pt'><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>BR<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Christian</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
ppsp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On Behalf Of =
</b>ext ???/denglingli<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, March 30, 2011 3:55 =
AM<br><b>To:</b> 'Ning Zong'; 'zhangyunfei'; ppsp@ietf.org<br><b>Cc:</b> =
'Carl Williams'<br><b>Subject:</b> [ppsp] ***SPAM*** 8.537 (5) =
</span><span lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=B4=F0=B8=B4</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>: Adding =
the security requirement for data intergrity check in the =
PPSPrequirement draft<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Hi Yunfei, Ning Zong and Christian<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>I agree with Christian=A1=AFs initial proposal for</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'> </span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>the peer protocol security issues to <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>address the integrity check requirement as follows: (with minor =
modification <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>according to some later discussion)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Current text:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;&nbsp; Similar to the behaviour in the tracker-peer =
interaction, malicious<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;&nbsp; peers may also create fake information on chunk =
availability and<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;&nbsp; exchange it with other peers. Some techniques to check =
the data<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;&nbsp; integrity (e.g., using checksum) may be useful for =
detecting the data.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;&nbsp; But this part is out of scope of =
PPSP.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Proposed new text:&nbsp;&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;&nbsp; Similar to the behaviour in the tracker-peer =
interaction, malicious<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;&nbsp; peers may also create fake information on chunk =
availability and<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;&nbsp; exchange it with other peers. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:red'>M=
alicious peers can also modify stream contents. Some techniques =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:red'>&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;are available and useful to check the data integrity =
(e.g., using checksum).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:red'>&=
nbsp;&nbsp; The related information can be received from the =
tracker<span =
style=3D'background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow'>/peer</span> via the =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-indent:5.5pt'><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:red'>t=
racker<span =
style=3D'background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow'>/peer</span> protocol. =
&nbsp;&nbsp;<span =
style=3D'background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow'>Additional mechanism =
will be needed to ensure the<o:p></o:p></span></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-indent:5.5pt'><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:red;ba=
ckground:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow'>authenticity of the checksum =
information in case of distrustful tracker/peer <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-indent:5.5pt'><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:red;ba=
ckground:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow'>distribution.</span><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:red'> =
The selection of a certain mechanism for this purpose is out of =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-indent:5.5pt'><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:red'>s=
cope for PPSP.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>BR<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Lingli Deng<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB</span></=
b><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>:</span></b><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'> ppsp-bounces@ietf.org =
[mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] </span><b><span lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=B4=FA=B1=ED</span></b><b><=
span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'> </span></b><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Ning Zong<br></span><b><span =
lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4</s=
pan></b><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'> 2011</span><span lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=C4=EA</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>3</span><span lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=D4=C2</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>29</span><span lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=C8=D5</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'> 16:48<br></span><b><span =
lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB</span></=
b><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>:</span></b><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'> zhangyunfei; =
ppsp@ietf.org<br></span><b><span lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=B3=AD=CB=CD</span></b><b><=
span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>:</span></b><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'> Carl =
Williams<br></span><b><span lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=D6=F7=CC=E2</span></b><b><=
span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>:</span></b><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'> Re: [ppsp] Adding the security =
requirement for data intergrity check in the PPSPrequirement =
draft<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Hi</span><span lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-family:SimSun'>=A3=AC</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US>all,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>I agree this data integrity check =
is important. Just want to&nbsp;hear more opinion on&nbsp;whether to put =
each kind of secury check as separated requirement =
item?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Thanks.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>BR,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Ning =
Zong<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div =
class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" =
align=3Dcenter></span></div></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>Hi =
all,</span><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp; As has added in the new version of problem statement on the =
security treat from the malicious peer to report fake information, shall =
we add the security requirement for data integrity check in the PPSP =
requirement draft?</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp; I notice that the current requirment draft has mentioned the =
requirement to&nbsp;detect the malicious peers, but regarding data =
integrity check, current draft doesn't include the =
requirement.</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>BR</span><s=
pan lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>Yunfei</spa=
n><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div>=
<div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>=
</div><div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter =
style=3D'text-align:center'><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><hr =
size=3D2 width=3D122 style=3D'width:91.5pt' =
align=3Dcenter></span></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:silver=
'>zhangyunfei</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:silver'><o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:silver=
'>2011-03-29</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div>=
<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" =
align=3Dcenter></span></div></div></body></html>
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Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 12:08:42 +0200
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Thread-Topic: QoS for PPSP
Thread-Index: AQLDwxBBraPoMDFVhskNCmOfr+zy7wIU+nV9AbuxBpqSN13JIIAAFMFA
References: <0LIT00I789RSB1@szxml11-in.huawei.com> <000e01cbee7d$75eb51f0$61c1f5d0$@chinamobile.com> <C58FFCAAA14F454A85AFB7C1C2F862C401AF96AE@DEMUEXC013.nsn-intra.net> <003401cbeeb5$1dcdd0f0$596972d0$@chinamobile.com>
From: "Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN - DE/Munich)" <christian.1.schmidt@nsn.com>
To: "ext Martin Stiemerling" <Martin.Stiemerling@neclab.eu>, "zhangyunfei" <zhangyunfei@chinamobile.com>, <ppsp@ietf.org>
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 Mar 2011 10:08:43.0740 (UTC) FILETIME=[736731C0:01CBEEC2]
Subject: [ppsp] QoS for PPSP
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List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol <ppsp.ietf.org>
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As discussed in the IETF80/PPSP I would like to start the need to
include QoS related requirements to the requirement spec.

=20

The quality for P2P Live Streaming could be very bad. Dependent from the
number of peers in the chains between content provider and displaying
peer, the network conditions (quality and load) and the performance of
the involved entities, especially end-to-end delay could be horrible.
End to end delay of 2 minutes will be not accepted e.g. for sport games
and setup or channel switching times of 2 minutes is horrible as well.
Especially if you take into account that this service will compete with
server/client based streaming solutions.

=20

There are several solutions possible, e.g. addition of super peers,
network internal storage and the usage of QoS information for an
advanced peer selection. This could be for example, the max length of a
chunk between source and peer or some information about the performance
capacity of the last peer. This information would have to be transported
via Tracker/Peer Protocol. The tracker protocol must provide the
possibility for the request of alternative peer addresses, if the
quality is not sufficient for the user.=20

=20

Therefore I recommend the introduction of 2 basic QoS requirements.

=20

QoS.REQ-1:=20

Setup time to receive a new streaming channel or to switch between
channels should be reasonable small. This time mainly depends on the
End-to-End delay and the size of the receiving buffer.=20

 =20

QoS.REQ-2:=20

End to end delay (time between content generation, e.g. camera and
content consumption, e.g. user side monitor) will become critical in
case of live streaming. Especially In provisioning of sports events, end
to end delay of 1 minute and more are not acceptable.=20

=20

What do you think about?

Christian

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20


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lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>As discussed in the IETF80/PPSP I would like to start the need to =
include QoS related requirements to the requirement =
spec.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>The quality for P2P Live Streaming could be very bad. Dependent from =
the number of peers in the chains between content provider and =
displaying peer, the network conditions (quality and load) and the =
performance of the involved entities, especially end-to-end delay could =
be horrible. End to end delay of 2 minutes will be not accepted e.g. for =
sport games and setup or channel switching times of 2 minutes is =
horrible as well. Especially if you take into account that this service =
will compete with server/client based streaming =
solutions.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>There are several solutions possible, e.g. addition of super peers, =
network internal storage and the usage of QoS information for an =
advanced peer selection. This could be for example, the max length of a =
chunk between source and peer or some information about the performance =
capacity of the last peer. This information would have to be transported =
via Tracker/Peer Protocol. The tracker protocol must provide the =
possibility for the request of alternative peer addresses, if the =
quality is not sufficient for the user. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Therefore I recommend the introduction of 2 basic QoS =
requirements.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><i><u><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>QoS.REQ-1: </span></u></i><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Setup time to receive a new streaming channel or to switch between =
channels should be reasonable small. This time mainly depends on the =
End-to-End delay and the size of the receiving buffer. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'> </span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><i><u><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>QoS.REQ-2: </span></u></i><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>End to end delay (time between content generation, e.g. camera and =
content consumption, e.g. user side monitor) will become critical in =
case of live streaming. Especially In provisioning of sports events, end =
to end delay of 1 minute and more are not acceptable. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>What do you think about?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Christian<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div></body></html>
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To: "Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN - DE/" <christian.1.schmidt@nsn.com>, "ext Ning Zong" <zongning@huawei.com>, "ppsp@ietf.org" <ppsp@ietf.org>
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--=====003_Dragon640775050604_=====--


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--=====003_Dragon304887323881_=====--


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Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 23:21:34 +0200
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To: zhangyunfei <zhangyunfei@chinamobile.com>, "Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN - DE/" <christian.1.schmidt@nsn.com>, =?gb2312?B?ZXh0ILXLwenA8i9kZW5nbGluZ2xp?= <denglingli@chinamobile.com>,  "ppsp@ietf.org" <ppsp@ietf.org>
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From: "Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN - DE/Munich)" <christian.1.schmidt@nsn.com>
To: "ext Ning Zong" <zongning@huawei.com>, =?gb2312?B?tcvB6cDyL2RlbmdsaW5nbGk=?= <denglingli@chinamobile.com>, "zhangyunfei" <zhangyunfei@chinamobile.com>, <ppsp@ietf.org>
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Hi Lingli,

=20

what do you mean with =A1=B0exclude it from the P2P streaming =
system=A1=B1 and how do you want to achieve this? If for example source =
information are exchanged directly between peers, how do you want to =
enforce this?

And I have no problem with the second sentence. Dependent from the =
solution, this could be a requirement for tracker/peer protocol as well.

=20

Br/Christian

=20

From: ext Ning Zong [mailto:zongning@huawei.com]=20
Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 9:09 AM
To: =B5=CB=C1=E9=C0=F2/denglingli; 'zhangyunfei'; Schmidt, Christian 1. =
(NSN - DE/Munich); ppsp@ietf.org
Cc: 'Carl Williams'
Subject: Re: =B4=F0=B8=B4: Re: RE: [ppsp] ***SPAM*** 8.537 (5) =
=B4=F0=B8=B4: Adding the security requirement for dataintergri

=20

Hi, Lingli,

=20

Thank you for the contribution.

I think the first sentence is fair. But the second sentence is not =
requirement to PPSP protocol, but requirement to chechsum distribution =
mechanism, which is not part of PPSP, I suppose?

=20

BR,

Ning Zong

=20

________________________________

Hi, Ning Zong, Yunfei and Christian

=20

What about adding the following item to the requirement draft?

=20

PPSP.SEC.REQ-X: Integrity of the streaming content in PPSP MUST be =
supported to identify inauthentic media content (undesirable modified by =
other entities rather than its genuine source) and exclude it from the =
P2P streaming system. The corresponding checksum distribution and =
verification scheme SHOULD scale well in P2P streaming system and be =
robust against distrustful trackers/peers.=20

=20

BR

Lingli

=20

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: Ning Zong [mailto:zongning@huawei.com]=20
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2011=C4=EA3=D4=C231=C8=D5 5:22
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: zhangyunfei; Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN - DE/; ext =
=B5=CB=C1=E9=C0=F2/denglingli; ppsp@ietf.org
=B3=AD=CB=CD: Carl Williams
=D6=F7=CC=E2: Re: Re: RE: [ppsp] ***SPAM*** 8.537 (5) =B4=F0=B8=B4: =
Adding the security requirement for dataintergri

=20

I will do it later.

=20

________________________________

Hi Lingli,

    I think it would be more suitable to add some words in the =
requirement draft rather than in the PS draft because we are missing one =
requirement item in the former draft. In the PS draft,what we need is a =
general discription on the problem rather than the requirements.

    Thanks.

=20

BR

Yunfei

=20

________________________________

zhangyunfei

2011-03-31

________________________________

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN - DE/Munich)

=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4=A3=BA 2011-03-30 16:23:30

=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA ext =B5=CB=C1=E9=C0=F2/denglingli; Ning Zong; =
zhangyunfei; ppsp@ietf.org

=B3=AD=CB=CD=A3=BA Carl Williams

=D6=F7=CC=E2=A3=BA RE: [ppsp] ***SPAM*** 8.537 (5) =B4=F0=B8=B4: Adding =
the security requirement for dataintergri

=20

Hi Lingli Deng, Yunfei and Ning Zong,

I like your proposal. Perhaps one minor think, what do you mean with

in case of distrustful tracker/peer distribution

=20

Am I right, that you do not mean, that the distribution is distrustful, =
but the tracker or one or more peers? What about

in case of distrustful tracker/peers

=20

BR

Christian

=20

=20

From: ppsp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of =
ext ???/denglingli
Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 3:55 AM
To: 'Ning Zong'; 'zhangyunfei'; ppsp@ietf.org
Cc: 'Carl Williams'
Subject: [ppsp] ***SPAM*** 8.537 (5) =B4=F0=B8=B4: Adding the security =
requirement for data intergrity check in the PPSPrequirement draft

=20

Hi Yunfei, Ning Zong and Christian

=20

I agree with Christian=A1=AFs initial proposal for the peer protocol =
security issues to=20

address the integrity check requirement as follows: (with minor =
modification=20

according to some later discussion)

=20

Current text:

=20

   Similar to the behaviour in the tracker-peer interaction, malicious

   peers may also create fake information on chunk availability and

   exchange it with other peers. Some techniques to check the data

   integrity (e.g., using checksum) may be useful for detecting the =
data.

   But this part is out of scope of PPSP.

=20

Proposed new text:  =20

=20

   Similar to the behaviour in the tracker-peer interaction, malicious

   peers may also create fake information on chunk availability and

   exchange it with other peers.=20

=20

   Malicious peers can also modify stream contents. Some techniques=20

   are available and useful to check the data integrity (e.g., using =
checksum).

   The related information can be received from the tracker/peer via the =


tracker/peer protocol.   Additional mechanism will be needed to ensure =
the

authenticity of the checksum information in case of distrustful =
tracker/peer=20

distribution. The selection of a certain mechanism for this purpose is =
out of=20

scope for PPSP.

=20

BR

Lingli Deng

=20

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: ppsp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] =
=B4=FA=B1=ED Ning Zong
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2011=C4=EA3=D4=C229=C8=D5 16:48
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: zhangyunfei; ppsp@ietf.org
=B3=AD=CB=CD: Carl Williams
=D6=F7=CC=E2: Re: [ppsp] Adding the security requirement for data =
intergrity check in the PPSPrequirement draft

=20

Hi=A3=ACall,

=20

I agree this data integrity check is important. Just want to hear more =
opinion on whether to put each kind of secury check as separated =
requirement item?

Thanks.

=20

BR,

Ning Zong

=20

________________________________

Hi all,

    As has added in the new version of problem statement on the security =
treat from the malicious peer to report fake information, shall we add =
the security requirement for data integrity check in the PPSP =
requirement draft?

    I notice that the current requirment draft has mentioned the =
requirement to detect the malicious peers, but regarding data integrity =
check, current draft doesn't include the requirement.

=20

BR

Yunfei

=20

________________________________

zhangyunfei

2011-03-29

________________________________

________________________________

________________________________


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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DDE link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Hi Lingli,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>what do you mean with =A1=B0</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>exclude it from the P2P streaming system=A1=B1 and how do you want to =
achieve this? If for example source information are exchanged directly =
between peers, how do you want to enforce this?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>And I have no problem with the second sentence. Dependent from the =
solution, this could be a requirement for tracker/peer protocol as =
well.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Br/Christian<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'> </span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
ext Ning Zong [mailto:zongning@huawei.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, =
March 31, 2011 9:09 AM<br><b>To:</b> </span><span lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>=B5=CB=C1=E9=C0=F2</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>/denglingli;=
 'zhangyunfei'; Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN - DE/Munich); =
ppsp@ietf.org<br><b>Cc:</b> 'Carl Williams'<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: =
</span><span lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>=B4=F0=B8=B4</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>: Re: RE: =
[ppsp] ***SPAM*** 8.537 (5) </span><span lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>=B4=F0=B8=B4</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>: Adding =
the security requirement for =
dataintergri<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>Hi, =
Lingli,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Thank you for the =
contribution.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>I think the =
first sentence is fair. But the second sentence is not requirement to =
PPSP protocol, but requirement to chechsum distribution mechanism, which =
is not part of PPSP, I suppose?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>BR,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>Ning =
Zong<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div class=3DMsoNormal =
align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" =
align=3Dcenter></div></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Hi, Ning Zong, Yunfei and Christian</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>What about adding the following item to the requirement =
draft?</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>PPSP.SEC.REQ-X: Integrity of the streaming content in PPSP MUST be =
supported to identify inauthentic media content (undesirable modified by =
other entities rather than its genuine source) and exclude it from the =
P2P streaming system. The corresponding checksum distribution and =
verification scheme SHOULD scale well in P2P streaming system and be =
robust against distrustful trackers/peers. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>BR</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Lingli</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span =
lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB</span></b><b><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'> Ning Zong [mailto:zongning@huawei.com] =
<br></span><b><span lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4</span></b><b><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'> 2011</span><span lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>=C4=EA</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>3</span><span lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>=D4=C2</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>31</span><span lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>=C8=D5</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'> 5:22<br></span><b><span lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB</span></b><b><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'> zhangyunfei; Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN - =
DE/; ext </span><span lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>=B5=CB=C1=E9=C0=F2</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>/denglingli; ppsp@ietf.org<br></span><b><span =
lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>=B3=AD=CB=CD</span></b><b><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'> Carl Williams<br></span><b><span =
lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>=D6=F7=CC=E2</span></b><b><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'> Re: Re: RE: [ppsp] ***SPAM*** 8.537 (5) =
</span><span lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>=B4=F0=B8=B4</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>: Adding the security requirement for =
dataintergri</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>I will do it later.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div =
class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" =
align=3Dcenter></span></div></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:blue'>=
Hi Lingli,</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:blue'>=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I think it would be more suitable to add some words =
in the requirement draft rather than in the PS draft because we are =
missing one requirement item in the former draft. In the PS draft,what =
we need is a general discription on the problem rather than the =
requirements.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:blue'>=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Thanks.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:blue'>=
BR</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:blue'>=
Yunfei</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div class=3DMsoNormal =
align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><hr =
size=3D2 width=3D122 style=3D'width:91.5pt' =
align=3Dcenter></span></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:silver=
'>zhangyunfei</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:silver=
'>2011-03-31</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div class=3DMsoNormal =
align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><hr =
size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter></span></div></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><strong><spa=
n lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA</s=
pan></strong><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'> Schmidt, =
Christian 1. (NSN - DE/Munich)</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><strong><spa=
n lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4=A3=
=BA</span></strong><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'> =
2011-03-30&nbsp;16:23:30</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><strong><spa=
n lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA</s=
pan></strong><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'> ext =
</span><span lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>=B5=CB=C1=E9=C0=F2</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>/denglingli=
; Ning Zong; zhangyunfei; <a =
href=3D"mailto:ppsp@ietf.org">ppsp@ietf.org</a></span><o:p></o:p></p></di=
v><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><strong><spa=
n lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=B3=AD=CB=CD=A3=BA</span></=
strong><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'> Carl =
Williams</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><strong><spa=
n lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=D6=F7=CC=E2=A3=BA</span></=
strong><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'> RE: =
[ppsp] ***SPAM*** 8.537 (5) </span><span lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>=B4=F0=B8=B4</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>: Adding =
the security requirement for =
dataintergri</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Hi </span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Lingli Deng, Yunfei and Ning Zong,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>I like your proposal. Perhaps one minor think, what do you mean =
with</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;text-indent:5=
.5pt'><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:red;ba=
ckground:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow'>in case of distrustful =
tracker/peer distribution</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;text-indent:5=
.5pt'><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:red'>&=
nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Am I right, that you do not mean, that the distribution is =
distrustful, but the tracker or one or more peers? What =
about</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;text-indent:5=
.5pt'><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:red;ba=
ckground:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow'>in case of distrustful =
tracker/peers</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;text-indent:5=
.5pt'><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>BR</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Christian</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
ppsp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On Behalf Of =
</b>ext ???/denglingli<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, March 30, 2011 3:55 =
AM<br><b>To:</b> 'Ning Zong'; 'zhangyunfei'; ppsp@ietf.org<br><b>Cc:</b> =
'Carl Williams'<br><b>Subject:</b> [ppsp] ***SPAM*** 8.537 (5) =
</span><span lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>=B4=F0=B8=B4</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>: Adding =
the security requirement for data intergrity check in the =
PPSPrequirement draft</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Hi Yunfei, Ning Zong and Christian</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>I agree with Christian=A1=AFs initial proposal for</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'> </span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>the peer protocol security issues to </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>address the integrity check requirement as follows: (with minor =
modification </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>according to some later discussion)</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Current text:</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;&nbsp; Similar to the behaviour in the tracker-peer =
interaction, malicious</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;&nbsp; peers may also create fake information on chunk =
availability and</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;&nbsp; exchange it with other peers. Some techniques to check =
the data</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;&nbsp; integrity (e.g., using checksum) may be useful for =
detecting the data.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;&nbsp; But this part is out of scope of =
PPSP.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Proposed new text:&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;&nbsp; Similar to the behaviour in the tracker-peer =
interaction, malicious</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;&nbsp; peers may also create fake information on chunk =
availability and</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;&nbsp; exchange it with other peers. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:red'>M=
alicious peers can also modify stream contents. Some techniques =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:red'>&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;are available and useful to check the data integrity =
(e.g., using checksum).</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:red'>&=
nbsp;&nbsp; The related information can be received from the =
tracker<span =
style=3D'background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow'>/peer</span> via the =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;text-indent:5=
.5pt'><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:red'>t=
racker<span =
style=3D'background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow'>/peer</span> protocol. =
&nbsp;&nbsp;<span =
style=3D'background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow'>Additional mechanism =
will be needed to ensure the</span></span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;text-indent:5=
.5pt'><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:red;ba=
ckground:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow'>authenticity of the checksum =
information in case of distrustful tracker/peer </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;text-indent:5=
.5pt'><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:red;ba=
ckground:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow'>distribution.</span><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:red'> =
The selection of a certain mechanism for this purpose is out of =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;text-indent:5=
.5pt'><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:red'>s=
cope for PPSP.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>BR</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Lingli Deng</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span =
lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB</span></b><b><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'> ppsp-bounces@ietf.org =
[mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] </span><b><span lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>=B4=FA=B1=ED </span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Ning Zong<br></span><b><span lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4</span></b><b><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'> 2011</span><span lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>=C4=EA</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>3</span><span lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>=D4=C2</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>29</span><span lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>=C8=D5</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'> 16:48<br></span><b><span lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB</span></b><b><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'> zhangyunfei; =
ppsp@ietf.org<br></span><b><span lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>=B3=AD=CB=CD</span></b><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'> Carl Williams<br></span><b><span =
lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>=D6=F7=CC=E2</span></b><b><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'> Re: [ppsp] Adding the security requirement =
for data intergrity check in the PPSPrequirement =
draft</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Hi</span><span lang=3DZH-CN>=A3=AC</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US>all,</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>I agree this data integrity check is important. Just want =
to&nbsp;hear more opinion on&nbsp;whether to put each kind of secury =
check as separated requirement item?</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Thanks.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>BR,</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Ning Zong</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div =
class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><hr =
size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter></span></div></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>Hi =
all,</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp; As has added in the new version of problem statement on the =
security treat from the malicious peer to report fake information, shall =
we add the security requirement for data integrity check in the PPSP =
requirement draft?</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp; I notice that the current requirment draft has mentioned the =
requirement to&nbsp;detect the malicious peers, but regarding data =
integrity check, current draft doesn't include the =
requirement.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>BR</span><o=
:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>Yunfei</spa=
n><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>=
</div><div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter =
style=3D'text-align:center'><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><hr =
size=3D2 width=3D122 style=3D'width:91.5pt' =
align=3Dcenter></span></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:silver=
'>zhangyunfei</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:silver=
'>2011-03-29</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div class=3DMsoNormal =
align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><hr =
size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter></span></div></div></div><div =
class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" =
align=3Dcenter></span></div></div><div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter =
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From: "Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN - DE/Munich)" <christian.1.schmidt@nsn.com>
To: =?gb2312?B?ZXh0ILXLwenA8i9kZW5nbGluZ2xp?= <denglingli@chinamobile.com>, "ext Ning Zong" <zongning@huawei.com>, "zhangyunfei" <zhangyunfei@chinamobile.com>, <ppsp@ietf.org>
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Hi Lingli,

what about the following proposal:

PPSP.SEC.REQ-X: Integrity of the streaming content in PPSP MUST be =
supported to provide a peer with the possibility to identify inauthentic =
media content (undesirable modified by other entities rather than its =
genuine source) and report this towards the tracker to exclude the =
related source from the P2P streaming system. The corresponding checksum =
distribution and verification scheme SHOULD scale well in P2P streaming =
system and be robust against distrustful trackers/peers.=20

/Christian

=20

=20

From: ext =B5=CB=C1=E9=C0=F2/denglingli =
[mailto:denglingli@chinamobile.com]=20
Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 10:26 AM
To: Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN - DE/Munich); 'ext Ning Zong'; =
'zhangyunfei'; ppsp@ietf.org
Cc: 'Carl Williams'
Subject: =B4=F0=B8=B4: Re: =B4=F0=B8=B4: Re: RE: [ppsp] ***SPAM*** 8.537 =
(5) =B4=F0=B8=B4: Adding the security requirement for dataintergri

=20

Hi Christian and Ning Zong

=20

To me,  it seems that tracker=A1=AFs involvement would be necessary to =
achieve this exclusion.

If a deceived peer accuses another peer for providing inauthentic =
content provision, the tracker may exclude the latter from the =
correspondent peer list accordingly.

=20

But would this mean we need also to protect honest uploading peers from =
false blames?

I have not come up with any solution yet.

=20

About the second sentence, I have the same comment with Christian.

=20

=20

BR,

LIngli

=20

=20

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN - DE/Munich) =
[mailto:christian.1.schmidt@nsn.com]=20
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2011=C4=EA3=D4=C231=C8=D5 15:31
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: ext Ning Zong; =B5=CB=C1=E9=C0=F2/denglingli; =
zhangyunfei; ppsp@ietf.org
=B3=AD=CB=CD: Carl Williams
=D6=F7=CC=E2: RE: Re: =B4=F0=B8=B4: Re: RE: [ppsp] ***SPAM*** 8.537 (5) =
=B4=F0=B8=B4: Adding the security requirement for dataintergri

=20

Hi Lingli,

=20

what do you mean with =A1=B0exclude it from the P2P streaming =
system=A1=B1 and how do you want to achieve this? If for example source =
information are exchanged directly between peers, how do you want to =
enforce this?

And I have no problem with the second sentence. Dependent from the =
solution, this could be a requirement for tracker/peer protocol as well.

=20

Br/Christian

=20

=20

From: ext Ning Zong [mailto:zongning@huawei.com]=20
Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 9:09 AM
To: =B5=CB=C1=E9=C0=F2/denglingli; 'zhangyunfei'; Schmidt, Christian 1. =
(NSN - DE/Munich); ppsp@ietf.org
Cc: 'Carl Williams'
Subject: Re: =B4=F0=B8=B4: Re: RE: [ppsp] ***SPAM*** 8.537 (5) =
=B4=F0=B8=B4: Adding the security requirement for dataintergri

=20

Hi, Lingli,

=20

Thank you for the contribution.

I think the first sentence is fair. But the second sentence is not =
requirement to PPSP protocol, but requirement to chechsum distribution =
mechanism, which is not part of PPSP, I suppose?

=20

BR,

Ning Zong

=20

________________________________

Hi, Ning Zong, Yunfei and Christian

=20

What about adding the following item to the requirement draft?

=20

PPSP.SEC.REQ-X: Integrity of the streaming content in PPSP MUST be =
supported to identify inauthentic media content (undesirable modified by =
other entities rather than its genuine source) and exclude it from the =
P2P streaming system. The corresponding checksum distribution and =
verification scheme SHOULD scale well in P2P streaming system and be =
robust against distrustful trackers/peers.=20

=20

BR

Lingli

=20

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: Ning Zong [mailto:zongning@huawei.com]=20
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2011=C4=EA3=D4=C231=C8=D5 5:22
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: zhangyunfei; Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN - DE/; ext =
=B5=CB=C1=E9=C0=F2/denglingli; ppsp@ietf.org
=B3=AD=CB=CD: Carl Williams
=D6=F7=CC=E2: Re: Re: RE: [ppsp] ***SPAM*** 8.537 (5) =B4=F0=B8=B4: =
Adding the security requirement for dataintergri

=20

I will do it later.

=20

________________________________

Hi Lingli,

    I think it would be more suitable to add some words in the =
requirement draft rather than in the PS draft because we are missing one =
requirement item in the former draft. In the PS draft,what we need is a =
general discription on the problem rather than the requirements.

    Thanks.

=20

BR

Yunfei

=20

________________________________

zhangyunfei

2011-03-31

________________________________

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN - DE/Munich)

=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4=A3=BA 2011-03-30 16:23:30

=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA ext =B5=CB=C1=E9=C0=F2/denglingli; Ning Zong; =
zhangyunfei; ppsp@ietf.org

=B3=AD=CB=CD=A3=BA Carl Williams

=D6=F7=CC=E2=A3=BA RE: [ppsp] ***SPAM*** 8.537 (5) =B4=F0=B8=B4: Adding =
the security requirement for dataintergri

=20

Hi Lingli Deng, Yunfei and Ning Zong,

I like your proposal. Perhaps one minor think, what do you mean with

in case of distrustful tracker/peer distribution

=20

Am I right, that you do not mean, that the distribution is distrustful, =
but the tracker or one or more peers? What about

in case of distrustful tracker/peers

=20

BR

Christian

=20

=20

From: ppsp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of =
ext ???/denglingli
Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 3:55 AM
To: 'Ning Zong'; 'zhangyunfei'; ppsp@ietf.org
Cc: 'Carl Williams'
Subject: [ppsp] ***SPAM*** 8.537 (5) =B4=F0=B8=B4: Adding the security =
requirement for data intergrity check in the PPSPrequirement draft

=20

Hi Yunfei, Ning Zong and Christian

=20

I agree with Christian=A1=AFs initial proposal for the peer protocol =
security issues to=20

address the integrity check requirement as follows: (with minor =
modification=20

according to some later discussion)

=20

Current text:

=20

   Similar to the behaviour in the tracker-peer interaction, malicious

   peers may also create fake information on chunk availability and

   exchange it with other peers. Some techniques to check the data

   integrity (e.g., using checksum) may be useful for detecting the =
data.

   But this part is out of scope of PPSP.

=20

Proposed new text:  =20

=20

   Similar to the behaviour in the tracker-peer interaction, malicious

   peers may also create fake information on chunk availability and

   exchange it with other peers.=20

=20

   Malicious peers can also modify stream contents. Some techniques=20

   are available and useful to check the data integrity (e.g., using =
checksum).

   The related information can be received from the tracker/peer via the =


tracker/peer protocol.   Additional mechanism will be needed to ensure =
the

authenticity of the checksum information in case of distrustful =
tracker/peer=20

distribution. The selection of a certain mechanism for this purpose is =
out of=20

scope for PPSP.

=20

BR

Lingli Deng

=20

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: ppsp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] =
=B4=FA=B1=ED Ning Zong
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2011=C4=EA3=D4=C229=C8=D5 16:48
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: zhangyunfei; ppsp@ietf.org
=B3=AD=CB=CD: Carl Williams
=D6=F7=CC=E2: Re: [ppsp] Adding the security requirement for data =
intergrity check in the PPSPrequirement draft

=20

Hi=A3=ACall,

=20

I agree this data integrity check is important. Just want to hear more =
opinion on whether to put each kind of secury check as separated =
requirement item?

Thanks.

=20

BR,

Ning Zong

=20

________________________________

Hi all,

    As has added in the new version of problem statement on the security =
treat from the malicious peer to report fake information, shall we add =
the security requirement for data integrity check in the PPSP =
requirement draft?

    I notice that the current requirment draft has mentioned the =
requirement to detect the malicious peers, but regarding data integrity =
check, current draft doesn't include the requirement.

=20

BR

Yunfei

=20

________________________________

zhangyunfei

2011-03-29

________________________________

________________________________

________________________________



__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus =
signature database 5999 (20110330) __________

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http://www.eset.com


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style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Hi Lingli,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>what about the following proposal:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>PPSP.SEC.REQ-X: Integrity of the streaming content in PPSP MUST be =
supported to </span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:red'>p=
rovide a peer with the possibility to</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'> identify inauthentic media content (undesirable modified by other =
entities rather than its genuine source) and </span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:red'>r=
eport this towards the</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'> </span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:red'>t=
racker to</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'> exclude </span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:red'>t=
he related source</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'> from the P2P streaming system. The corresponding checksum =
distribution and verification scheme SHOULD scale well in P2P streaming =
system and be robust against distrustful trackers/peers. </span><span =
lang=3DEN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>/Christian<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
ext </span><span lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=B5=CB=C1=E9=C0=F2</span><s=
pan =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>/denglingli =
[mailto:denglingli@chinamobile.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, March 31, =
2011 10:26 AM<br><b>To:</b> Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN - DE/Munich); =
'ext Ning Zong'; 'zhangyunfei'; ppsp@ietf.org<br><b>Cc:</b> 'Carl =
Williams'<br><b>Subject:</b> </span><span lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=B4=F0=B8=B4</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>: Re: =
</span><span lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=B4=F0=B8=B4</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>: Re: RE: =
[ppsp] ***SPAM*** 8.537 (5) </span><span lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=B4=F0=B8=B4</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>: Adding =
the security requirement for =
dataintergri<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Hi Christian and Ning Zong<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>To me,&nbsp; it seems that tracker=A1=AFs involvement would be =
necessary to achieve this exclusion.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>If a deceived peer accuses another peer for providing inauthentic =
content provision, the tracker may exclude the latter from the =
correspondent peer list accordingly.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>But would this mean we need also to protect honest uploading peers =
from false blames?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>I have not come up with any solution yet.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>About the second sentence, I have the same comment with =
Christian.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>BR,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>LIngli<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB</span></=
b><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>:</span></b><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'> Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN - =
DE/Munich) [mailto:christian.1.schmidt@nsn.com] <br></span><b><span =
lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4</s=
pan></b><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'> 2011</span><span lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=C4=EA</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>3</span><span lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=D4=C2</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>31</span><span lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=C8=D5</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'> 15:31<br></span><b><span =
lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB</span></=
b><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>:</span></b><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'> ext Ning Zong; </span><span =
lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=B5=CB=C1=E9=C0=F2</span><s=
pan lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>/denglingli; zhangyunfei; =
ppsp@ietf.org<br></span><b><span lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=B3=AD=CB=CD</span></b><b><=
span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>:</span></b><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'> Carl =
Williams<br></span><b><span lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=D6=F7=CC=E2</span></b><b><=
span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>:</span></b><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'> RE: Re: </span><span =
lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=B4=F0=B8=B4</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>: Re: RE: [ppsp] ***SPAM*** =
8.537 (5) </span><span lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=B4=F0=B8=B4</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>: Adding the security =
requirement for dataintergri<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Hi Lingli,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>what do you mean with =A1=B0</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>exclude it from the P2P streaming system=A1=B1 and how do you want to =
achieve this? If for example source information are exchanged directly =
between peers, how do you want to enforce this?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>And I have no problem with the second sentence. Dependent from the =
solution, this could be a requirement for tracker/peer protocol as =
well.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Br/Christian<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
ext Ning Zong [mailto:zongning@huawei.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, =
March 31, 2011 9:09 AM<br><b>To:</b> </span><span lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=B5=CB=C1=E9=C0=F2</span><s=
pan =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>/denglingli;=
 'zhangyunfei'; Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN - DE/Munich); =
ppsp@ietf.org<br><b>Cc:</b> 'Carl Williams'<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: =
</span><span lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=B4=F0=B8=B4</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>: Re: RE: =
[ppsp] ***SPAM*** 8.537 (5) </span><span lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=B4=F0=B8=B4</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>: Adding =
the security requirement for =
dataintergri<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>Hi, =
Lingli,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Thank you for the =
contribution.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>I think the =
first sentence is fair. But the second sentence is not requirement to =
PPSP protocol, but requirement to chechsum distribution mechanism, which =
is not part of PPSP, I suppose?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>BR,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>Ning =
Zong<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div class=3DMsoNormal =
align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" =
align=3Dcenter></div></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Hi, Ning Zong, Yunfei and Christian</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>What about adding the following item to the requirement =
draft?</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>PPSP.SEC.REQ-X: Integrity of the streaming content in PPSP MUST be =
supported to identify inauthentic media content (undesirable modified by =
other entities rather than its genuine source) and exclude it from the =
P2P streaming system. The corresponding checksum distribution and =
verification scheme SHOULD scale well in P2P streaming system and be =
robust against distrustful trackers/peers. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>BR</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Lingli</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span =
lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB</span></=
b><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>:</span></b><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'> Ning Zong =
[mailto:zongning@huawei.com] <br></span><b><span lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4</s=
pan></b><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'> 2011</span><span lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=C4=EA</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>3</span><span lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=D4=C2</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>31</span><span lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=C8=D5</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'> 5:22<br></span><b><span =
lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB</span></=
b><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>:</span></b><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'> zhangyunfei; Schmidt, Christian =
1. (NSN - DE/; ext </span><span lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=B5=CB=C1=E9=C0=F2</span><s=
pan lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>/denglingli; =
ppsp@ietf.org<br></span><b><span lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=B3=AD=CB=CD</span></b><b><=
span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>:</span></b><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'> Carl =
Williams<br></span><b><span lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=D6=F7=CC=E2</span></b><b><=
span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>:</span></b><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'> Re: Re: RE: [ppsp] ***SPAM*** =
8.537 (5) </span><span lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=B4=F0=B8=B4</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>: Adding the security =
requirement for dataintergri</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>I will do it later.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div =
class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" =
align=3Dcenter></span></div></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:blue'>=
Hi Lingli,</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:blue'>=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I think it would be more suitable to add some words =
in the requirement draft rather than in the PS draft because we are =
missing one requirement item in the former draft. In the PS draft,what =
we need is a general discription on the problem rather than the =
requirements.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:blue'>=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Thanks.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:blue'>=
BR</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:blue'>=
Yunfei</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div class=3DMsoNormal =
align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><hr =
size=3D2 width=3D122 style=3D'width:91.5pt' =
align=3Dcenter></span></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:silver=
'>zhangyunfei</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:silver=
'>2011-03-31</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div class=3DMsoNormal =
align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><hr =
size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter></span></div></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><strong><spa=
n lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA</s=
pan></strong><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'> Schmidt, =
Christian 1. (NSN - DE/Munich)</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><strong><spa=
n lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4=A3=
=BA</span></strong><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'> =
2011-03-30&nbsp;16:23:30</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><strong><spa=
n lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA</s=
pan></strong><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'> ext =
</span><span lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=B5=CB=C1=E9=C0=F2</span><s=
pan lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>/denglingli=
; Ning Zong; zhangyunfei; <a =
href=3D"mailto:ppsp@ietf.org">ppsp@ietf.org</a></span><o:p></o:p></p></di=
v><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><strong><spa=
n lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=B3=AD=CB=CD=A3=BA</span></=
strong><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'> Carl =
Williams</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><strong><spa=
n lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=D6=F7=CC=E2=A3=BA</span></=
strong><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'> RE: =
[ppsp] ***SPAM*** 8.537 (5) </span><span lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=B4=F0=B8=B4</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>: Adding =
the security requirement for =
dataintergri</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Hi </span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Lingli Deng, Yunfei and Ning Zong,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>I like your proposal. Perhaps one minor think, what do you mean =
with</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;text-indent:5=
.5pt'><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:red;ba=
ckground:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow'>in case of distrustful =
tracker/peer distribution</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;text-indent:5=
.5pt'><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:red'>&=
nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Am I right, that you do not mean, that the distribution is =
distrustful, but the tracker or one or more peers? What =
about</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;text-indent:5=
.5pt'><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:red;ba=
ckground:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow'>in case of distrustful =
tracker/peers</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;text-indent:5=
.5pt'><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>BR</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Christian</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
ppsp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On Behalf Of =
</b>ext ???/denglingli<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, March 30, 2011 3:55 =
AM<br><b>To:</b> 'Ning Zong'; 'zhangyunfei'; ppsp@ietf.org<br><b>Cc:</b> =
'Carl Williams'<br><b>Subject:</b> [ppsp] ***SPAM*** 8.537 (5) =
</span><span lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=B4=F0=B8=B4</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>: Adding =
the security requirement for data intergrity check in the =
PPSPrequirement draft</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Hi Yunfei, Ning Zong and Christian</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>I agree with Christian=A1=AFs initial proposal for</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'> </span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>the peer protocol security issues to </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>address the integrity check requirement as follows: (with minor =
modification </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>according to some later discussion)</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Current text:</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;&nbsp; Similar to the behaviour in the tracker-peer =
interaction, malicious</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;&nbsp; peers may also create fake information on chunk =
availability and</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;&nbsp; exchange it with other peers. Some techniques to check =
the data</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;&nbsp; integrity (e.g., using checksum) may be useful for =
detecting the data.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;&nbsp; But this part is out of scope of =
PPSP.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Proposed new text:&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;&nbsp; Similar to the behaviour in the tracker-peer =
interaction, malicious</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;&nbsp; peers may also create fake information on chunk =
availability and</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;&nbsp; exchange it with other peers. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:red'>M=
alicious peers can also modify stream contents. Some techniques =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:red'>&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;are available and useful to check the data integrity =
(e.g., using checksum).</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:red'>&=
nbsp;&nbsp; The related information can be received from the =
tracker<span =
style=3D'background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow'>/peer</span> via the =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;text-indent:5=
.5pt'><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:red'>t=
racker<span =
style=3D'background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow'>/peer</span> protocol. =
&nbsp;&nbsp;<span =
style=3D'background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow'>Additional mechanism =
will be needed to ensure the</span></span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;text-indent:5=
.5pt'><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:red;ba=
ckground:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow'>authenticity of the checksum =
information in case of distrustful tracker/peer </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;text-indent:5=
.5pt'><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:red;ba=
ckground:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow'>distribution.</span><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:red'> =
The selection of a certain mechanism for this purpose is out of =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;text-indent:5=
.5pt'><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:red'>s=
cope for PPSP.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>BR</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Lingli Deng</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span =
lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB</span></=
b><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>:</span></b><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'> ppsp-bounces@ietf.org =
[mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] </span><b><span lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=B4=FA=B1=ED</span></b><b><=
span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'> </span></b><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Ning Zong<br></span><b><span =
lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4</s=
pan></b><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'> 2011</span><span lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=C4=EA</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>3</span><span lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=D4=C2</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>29</span><span lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=C8=D5</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'> 16:48<br></span><b><span =
lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB</span></=
b><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>:</span></b><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'> zhangyunfei; =
ppsp@ietf.org<br></span><b><span lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=B3=AD=CB=CD</span></b><b><=
span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>:</span></b><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'> Carl =
Williams<br></span><b><span lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=D6=F7=CC=E2</span></b><b><=
span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>:</span></b><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'> Re: [ppsp] Adding the security =
requirement for data intergrity check in the PPSPrequirement =
draft</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Hi</span><span lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-family:SimSun'>=A3=AC</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US>all,</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>I agree this data integrity check is important. Just want =
to&nbsp;hear more opinion on&nbsp;whether to put each kind of secury =
check as separated requirement item?</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Thanks.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>BR,</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Ning Zong</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div =
class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><hr =
size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter></span></div></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>Hi =
all,</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp; As has added in the new version of problem statement on the =
security treat from the malicious peer to report fake information, shall =
we add the security requirement for data integrity check in the PPSP =
requirement draft?</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp; I notice that the current requirment draft has mentioned the =
requirement to&nbsp;detect the malicious peers, but regarding data =
integrity check, current draft doesn't include the =
requirement.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>BR</span><o=
:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>Yunfei</spa=
n><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>=
</div><div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter =
style=3D'text-align:center'><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><hr =
size=3D2 width=3D122 style=3D'width:91.5pt' =
align=3Dcenter></span></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:silver=
'>zhangyunfei</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:silver=
'>2011-03-29</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div class=3DMsoNormal =
align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><hr =
size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter></span></div></div></div><div =
class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" =
align=3Dcenter></span></div></div><div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter =
style=3D'text-align:center'><hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" =
align=3Dcenter></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><br><br>__________ Information =
from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5999 =
(20110330) __________<br><br>The message was checked by ESET NOD32 =
Antivirus.<br><br><a =
href=3D"http://www.eset.com">http://www.eset.com</a><o:p></o:p></p></div>=
</body></html>
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From riccardo.bernardini@uniud.it  Thu Mar 31 01:42:16 2011
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Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 10:43:50 +0200
From: Riccardo Bernardini <riccardo.bernardini@uniud.it>
To: ppsp@ietf.org
References: <0LIW007C3UIYK5@szxml12-in.huawei.com> <C58FFCAAA14F454A85AFB7C1C2F862C401AF9D08@DEMUEXC013.nsn-intra.net> <000801cbef7d$34bdde40$9e399ac0$@chinamobile.com>
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Subject: Re: [ppsp] ***SPAM*** 7.814 (5) ??: Re: ??: Re: RE: ***SPAM***	8.537 (5) ??: Adding the security requirement for dataintergri
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Quoting ???/denglingli <denglingli@chinamobile.com>:

> Hi Christian and Ning Zong
>
>
>
> To me,  it seems that tracker?s involvement would be necessary to achieve
> this exclusion.
>
> If a deceived peer accuses another peer for providing inauthentic content
> provision, the tracker may exclude the latter from the correspondent peer
> list accordingly.
>
>
>
> But would this mean we need also to protect honest uploading peers from
> false blames?

Yes, I think that peers must be protected against this kind of =20
"defamatory attack." It would be too simple to mount.

>
> I have not come up with any solution yet.
>

Just off the top of my head (writing while thinking),  one could =20
require that at least a minimum number of "denounces" must be =20
received.  This would require a coordination  among several attackers. =20
  If the tracker can have an estimate of how many peers the "accused" =20
peer has served, it could use a relative threshold (e.g., at least 50% =20
of the served peers must denounce the accused one).

Alternatively, one could ask each peer to sign every transmitted =20
chunk.  This will allow the denouncer to use the signed chunk as =20
"evidence".

Still writing while thinking, we should also consider the case where a =20
peer propagate bad content in "good faith".  If the signature solution =20
is employed, the peer could send the chunk together with a chain of =20
past signatures. This would protect the peer from the accusation of =20
distributing bad content since it would prove that the peer did not =20
generate the content, but received it from someone else.  However, we =20
must pay attention that the chain signature does not get too long.  =20
(If I remember correctly, there is a technique that allows to create =20
signature chains that can be shortned).

>
>
> About the second sentence, I have the same comment with Christian.
>
>
>
>
>
> BR,
>
> LIngli
>
>
>
>
>
> ???: Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN - DE/Munich)
> [mailto:christian.1.schmidt@nsn.com]
> ????: 2011?3?31? 15:31
> ???: ext Ning Zong; ???/denglingli; zhangyunfei; ppsp@ietf.org
> ??: Carl Williams
> ??: RE: Re: ??: Re: RE: [ppsp] ***SPAM*** 8.537 (5) ??: Adding the
> security requirement for dataintergri
>
>
>
> Hi Lingli,
>
>
>
> what do you mean with ?exclude it from the P2P streaming system? and how
> do you want to achieve this? If for example source information are exchang=
ed
> directly between peers, how do you want to enforce this?
>
> And I have no problem with the second sentence. Dependent from the solutio=
n,
> this could be a requirement for tracker/peer protocol as well.
>
>
>
> Br/Christian
>
>
>
>
>
> From: ext Ning Zong [mailto:zongning@huawei.com]
> Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 9:09 AM
> To: ???/denglingli; 'zhangyunfei'; Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN -
> DE/Munich); ppsp@ietf.org
> Cc: 'Carl Williams'
> Subject: Re: ??: Re: RE: [ppsp] ***SPAM*** 8.537 (5) ??: Adding the
> security requirement for dataintergri
>
>
>
> Hi, Lingli,
>
>
>
> Thank you for the contribution.
>
> I think the first sentence is fair. But the second sentence is not
> requirement to PPSP protocol, but requirement to chechsum distribution
> mechanism, which is not part of PPSP, I suppose?
>
>
>
> BR,
>
> Ning Zong
>
>
>
>   _____
>
> Hi, Ning Zong, Yunfei and Christian
>
>
>
> What about adding the following item to the requirement draft?
>
>
>
> PPSP.SEC.REQ-X: Integrity of the streaming content in PPSP MUST be support=
ed
> to identify inauthentic media content (undesirable modified by other
> entities rather than its genuine source) and exclude it from the P2P
> streaming system. The corresponding checksum distribution and verification
> scheme SHOULD scale well in P2P streaming system and be robust against
> distrustful trackers/peers.
>
>
>
> BR
>
> Lingli
>
>
>
> ???: Ning Zong [mailto:zongning@huawei.com]
> ????: 2011?3?31? 5:22
> ???: zhangyunfei; Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN - DE/; ext ???
> /denglingli; ppsp@ietf.org
> ??: Carl Williams
> ??: Re: Re: RE: [ppsp] ***SPAM*** 8.537 (5) ??: Adding the security
> requirement for dataintergri
>
>
>
> I will do it later.
>
>
>
>   _____
>
> Hi Lingli,
>
>     I think it would be more suitable to add some words in the requirement
> draft rather than in the PS draft because we are missing one requirement
> item in the former draft. In the PS draft,what we need is a general
> discription on the problem rather than the requirements.
>
>     Thanks.
>
>
>
> BR
>
> Yunfei
>
>
>
>   _____
>
> zhangyunfei
>
> 2011-03-31
>
>   _____
>
> ???? Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN - DE/Munich)
>
> ????? 2011-03-30 16:23:30
>
> ???? ext ???/denglingli; Ning Zong; zhangyunfei; ppsp@ietf.org
>
> ??? Carl Williams
>
> ??? RE: [ppsp] ***SPAM*** 8.537 (5) ??: Adding the security requirement
> for dataintergri
>
>
>
> Hi Lingli Deng, Yunfei and Ning Zong,
>
> I like your proposal. Perhaps one minor think, what do you mean with
>
> in case of distrustful tracker/peer distribution
>
>
>
> Am I right, that you do not mean, that the distribution is distrustful, bu=
t
> the tracker or one or more peers? What about
>
> in case of distrustful tracker/peers
>
>
>
> BR
>
> Christian
>
>
>
>
>
> From: ppsp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of ex=
t
> ???/denglingli
> Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 3:55 AM
> To: 'Ning Zong'; 'zhangyunfei'; ppsp@ietf.org
> Cc: 'Carl Williams'
> Subject: [ppsp] ***SPAM*** 8.537 (5) ??: Adding the security requirement
> for data intergrity check in the PPSPrequirement draft
>
>
>
> Hi Yunfei, Ning Zong and Christian
>
>
>
> I agree with Christian?s initial proposal for the peer protocol security
> issues to
>
> address the integrity check requirement as follows: (with minor modificati=
on
>
>
> according to some later discussion)
>
>
>
> Current text:
>
>
>
>    Similar to the behaviour in the tracker-peer interaction, malicious
>
>    peers may also create fake information on chunk availability and
>
>    exchange it with other peers. Some techniques to check the data
>
>    integrity (e.g., using checksum) may be useful for detecting the data.
>
>    But this part is out of scope of PPSP.
>
>
>
> Proposed new text:
>
>
>
>    Similar to the behaviour in the tracker-peer interaction, malicious
>
>    peers may also create fake information on chunk availability and
>
>    exchange it with other peers.
>
>
>
>    Malicious peers can also modify stream contents. Some techniques
>
>    are available and useful to check the data integrity (e.g., using
> checksum).
>
>    The related information can be received from the tracker/peer via the
>
> tracker/peer protocol.   Additional mechanism will be needed to ensure the
>
> authenticity of the checksum information in case of distrustful tracker/pe=
er
>
>
> distribution. The selection of a certain mechanism for this purpose is out
> of
>
> scope for PPSP.
>
>
>
> BR
>
> Lingli Deng
>
>
>
> ???: ppsp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] ?? Ning Zong
> ????: 2011?3?29? 16:48
> ???: zhangyunfei; ppsp@ietf.org
> ??: Carl Williams
> ??: Re: [ppsp] Adding the security requirement for data intergrity check
> in the PPSPrequirement draft
>
>
>
> Hi?all,
>
>
>
> I agree this data integrity check is important. Just want to hear more
> opinion on whether to put each kind of secury check as separated requireme=
nt
> item?
>
> Thanks.
>
>
>
> BR,
>
> Ning Zong
>
>
>
>   _____
>
> Hi all,
>
>     As has added in the new version of problem statement on the security
> treat from the malicious peer to report fake information, shall we add the
> security requirement for data integrity check in the PPSP requirement draf=
t?
>
>     I notice that the current requirment draft has mentioned the requireme=
nt
> to detect the malicious peers, but regarding data integrity check, current
> draft doesn't include the requirement.
>
>
>
> BR
>
> Yunfei
>
>
>
>   _____
>
> zhangyunfei
>
> 2011-03-29
>
>   _____
>
>   _____
>
>   _____
>
>
>
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signatu=
re
> database 5999 (20110330) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
> http://www.eset.com
>
>



--=20
Riccardo Bernardini
DIEGM -- University of Udine
via delle Scienze 208
33100 Udine
Tel: +39-0432-55-8271
Fax: +39-0432-55-8251

----------------------------------------------------------------------
SEMEL (SErvizio di Messaging ELettronico) - CSIT -Universita' di Udine


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Subject: Re: [ppsp] ***SPAM*** 7.814 (5) ??: Re: ??: Re: RE:***SPAM***	8.537 (5) ??: Adding the security requirement
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--=====003_Dragon285456656574_=====--

