Hi all,

=A0=A0=A0=A0 We plan to have a PPSP= session in IETF 88. Please send your request for the time slot to Ning and= me before Oct 21. Thanks.

=A0

BR
Yunfei

--001a11c2047ad88c0904e8994c3e-- From hishigh@gmail.com Thu Oct 17 06:10:35 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ppsp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ppsp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1EE3321F9EB5 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2013 06:10:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.299 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.299 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.300, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_64=0.6, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6TkcNO1t8yGZ for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2013 06:10:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-oa0-x22f.google.com (mail-oa0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c02::22f]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D892A21F9EAF for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2013 06:10:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-oa0-f47.google.com with SMTP id i1so1928839oag.6 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2013 06:10:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=aFBMzsIXBtq33Hssi5rfTlaPjANrhbJ+fV8AO3BXp6o=; b=UU0j8I5t2IYDwTlJfSGKinRM9vVIcd2Rbg8ejaoK7SqvkOItmONKmaAigZ7E997Ycj J0DPuMbjuRtv9aXzlJuvrwx5SIUMD4hm/2tw+1L8V6U8CIstPXt/0jbWraaPeqYgXGs5 fKuYlH9TFqIl8OCb3Ug+G/qBqHGyhXvyuFlQaUMNS4/fJbxde7S1bhf/9aycHPu0KbDh bJ4KUATQtmMrgTDzsFFhA9UN6DuO8CeIuBaAfEpvkH4hZUpYa6soMeeItFH7BSf4jk79 2TjN3ltpk6wOjVaue8HTXo8b7RhwToFNO5g7WxFqJ5zt/EFAIUq+e9ZuwI7ZB4f7OLDM 1nMQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.182.213.97 with SMTP id nr1mr11609720obc.48.1382015430085; Thu, 17 Oct 2013 06:10:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.76.98.43 with HTTP; Thu, 17 Oct 2013 06:10:30 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 21:10:30 +0800 Message-ID: From: yunfei zhang To: "ppsp@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c20afcc8cfc304e8ef8a61 Subject: [ppsp] PPSP session in IETF 88 X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 13:10:35 -0000 --001a11c20afcc8cfc304e8ef8a61 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi all, The ppsp session is scheduled on 1610-1840 at Plaza C on Tuesday,November 5, 2013. See you all in Vancouver. BR Yunfei&Ning --001a11c20afcc8cfc304e8ef8a61 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi all,

=A0=A0 The ppsp session is schedule= d on 1610-1840=A0at Plaza C on Tuesday,November 5, 2013. See you all in Vancouver.=

=A0

B= R

Yunfei&Ning

--001a11c20afcc8cfc304e8ef8a61-- From jefft0@gmail.com Thu Oct 17 09:14:07 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ppsp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ppsp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5302121F9D0A for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2013 09:14:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_64=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nBebXbTNESsL for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2013 09:14:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pd0-x22a.google.com (mail-pd0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c02::22a]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8669921F9CBF for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2013 09:14:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pd0-f170.google.com with SMTP id x10so3029590pdj.29 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2013 09:14:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=sender:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type; bh=Q2qozri1+gvXQva+HIVlTbNQFygGpY3CgtQjHJDljT8=; b=iOalpFzWXjEesP1900VhW44Gz35r68zGYz4K9xuNi7C92Dg5QtbJ23Oj95G5ZE4pIr EFZ1aSQusFJWoIdHGv7c9nEA75s0ZhUt0lKnI1xUGyoRLzxYqhcEWbj4shzfw3G01PuI APFHBeq3qUQY4/vjS+2Ja2HFZtfW4xh50n7cm9HNgriMBJOqIjIAevg4BJCNRcV8Svfn Eby4Qr09LPL4lRFSu+IQM0SQfkrjb4OzC+O1LGTaV7rIOOLUSfw/0BJf708DqNaNHDCF iSJ8ghMP41hhUDGHZTM+XUcRfhCS0bSl1gRW1ZNaJLROoy6HkqANkPLaED70J74WU05+ PRTg== X-Received: by 10.66.100.227 with SMTP id fb3mr10198163pab.26.1382026442179; Thu, 17 Oct 2013 09:14:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.8.134] (cpe-76-94-71-57.socal.res.rr.com. [76.94.71.57]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id sb9sm98804649pbb.0.1969.12.31.16.00.00 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 17 Oct 2013 09:14:01 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Jeff Thompson Message-ID: <52600CC3.4010505@thefirst.org> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 09:13:55 -0700 From: Jeff Thompson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ppsp@ietf.org References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------060504080101070907030701" Subject: Re: [ppsp] PPSP session in IETF 88 X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 16:22:44 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------060504080101070907030701 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Is anyone from PPSP going to the ICNRG session on Sunday, Nov. 5? They are also discussing video streaming with hash-based names. "Adaptive Video Streaming over ICN" http://users.soe.ucsc.edu/~cedric/papers/draft-video-streaming-over-ICN-00.txt This doesn't seem to mention the video streaming with has-based names in the PPSPP draft (or vice versa). What is the cross-pollination between PPSP and ICNRG? Thanks, - Jeff > Hi all, > The ppsp session is scheduled on 1610-1840 atPlaza C on > Tuesday,November 5, 2013. See you all in Vancouver. > BR > Yunfei&Ning > --------------060504080101070907030701 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Is anyone from PPSP going to the ICNRG session on Sunday, Nov. 5? They are also discussing video streaming with hash-based names.
"Adaptive Video Streaming over ICN"
http://users.soe.ucsc.edu/~cedric/papers/draft-video-streaming-over-ICN-00.txt

This doesn't seem to mention the video streaming with has-based names in the PPSPP draft (or vice versa). What is the cross-pollination between PPSP and ICNRG?

Thanks,
- Jeff

Hi all,

The ppsp session is scheduled on 1610-1840 at Plaza C on Tuesday,November 5, 2013. See you all in Vancouver.

BR

Yunfei&Ning

--------------060504080101070907030701-- From borje.ohlman@ericsson.com Fri Oct 18 07:04:35 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ppsp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ppsp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4452421F9D1B for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2013 07:04:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.237 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.237 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.539, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_64=0.6, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rbUXXFq9Ed5R for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2013 07:04:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sesbmg20.ericsson.net (sesbmg20.ericsson.net [193.180.251.56]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A66E11E818F for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2013 07:04:29 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c1b4fb38-b7fcf8e0000062b8-3c-52613feb48fe Received: from ESESSHC022.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.253.124]) by sesbmg20.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 7D.19.25272.BEF31625; Fri, 18 Oct 2013 16:04:28 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESSMB107.ericsson.se ([169.254.7.45]) by ESESSHC022.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.84]) with mapi id 14.02.0328.009; Fri, 18 Oct 2013 16:04:27 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?B=F6rje_Ohlman?= To: ppsp Thread-Topic: Video streaming in ppsp and icnrg Thread-Index: AQHOzAr1517KoKDcvE+6XBUPTA+Faw== Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2013 14:04:27 +0000 Message-ID: <3B84A5B629768D4395DEE3158346FE4C11649DB7@ESESSMB107.ericsson.se> References: <52600CC3.4010505@thefirst.org> In-Reply-To: <52600CC3.4010505@thefirst.org> Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.150] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_3B84A5B629768D4395DEE3158346FE4C11649DB7ESESSMB107erics_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFvrJLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM+Jvje4b+8Qgg4WL2C12zt7JZHHn8BMm i3evZzA7MHssWfKTyWPyxsNsHvNWbGAKYI7isklJzcksSy3St0vgymi47F0wQ7liyrxfbA2M G+S6GDk5JARMJHZ+XccGYYtJXLi3HswWEjjKKDGh2bSLkQvIXswosWT1B0aQBJuAo8T7pwdY uxg5OEQEJCQa1oiBhJkFbCUm3jwBViIsoCXx/e12dhBbREBfYmXTYWYIW0/i/I2VYPNZBFQl Zk+ZwgJi8wr4Shx+NpMFYm+RxMmXh8BsTgEdiVd9L8DqGQVkJb40rmaG2CUucevJfCaImwUk luw5zwxhi0q8fPyPFcJWklix/RIjRH2+xMW9Z5ghdglKnJz5hGUCo+gsJKNmISmbhaQMIq4n cWPqFDYIW1ti2cLXzBC2rsSMf4egaqwl2hacZUFWs4CRYxUjR3FqcVJuupHBJkZg9B3c8tti B+PlvzaHGKU5WJTEeT++dQ4SEkhPLEnNTk0tSC2KLyrNSS0+xMjEwSnVwGj1XN+aufeFCzMD h8KtdKctar+mtEjXzJ+r9rWkzZR16bubwgv6zWzzXlwVVbi8nHvvNbmQyfuZiqJzzBvn3eu2 lvpc9qk0/fadimMBtQ6K808n2u8598p5LcuqxvOVjJfvtHp8NJrof+y/0KQAx2s9hocrMp+w 2LOdXt+Z8dekmjHkks7/ECWW4oxEQy3mouJEAE4pHNeMAgAA Cc: icnrg Subject: [ppsp] Video streaming in ppsp and icnrg X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2013 14:04:35 -0000 --_000_3B84A5B629768D4395DEE3158346FE4C11649DB7ESESSMB107erics_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable If someone from ppsp would be interested to come to the ICNRG meeting on Su= nday and present the video streaming work of ppsp this would be most welcom= e, for meeting details and registration please see http://trac.tools.ietf.o= rg/group/irtf/trac/wiki/icnrg (Anyone is of course welcome to attend the meeting even if you are not will= ing to make a presentation.) I think it would be great to have a discussion on how the video streaming w= ork in ppsp and icnrg relates to each other and which synergies could be po= ssible. B=F6rje On 17 okt 2013, at 18:13, Jeff Thompson > wrote: Is anyone from PPSP going to the ICNRG session on Sunday, Nov. 5? They are= also discussing video streaming with hash-based names. "Adaptive Video Streaming over ICN" http://users.soe.ucsc.edu/~cedric/papers/draft-video-streaming-over-ICN-00.= txt This doesn't seem to mention the video streaming with has-based names in th= e PPSPP draft (or vice versa). What is the cross-pollination between PPSP = and ICNRG? Thanks, - Jeff Hi all, The ppsp session is scheduled on 1610-1840 at Plaza C on Tuesday,Novembe= r 5, 2013. See you all in Vancouver. BR Yunfei&Ning _______________________________________________ ppsp mailing list ppsp@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp --_000_3B84A5B629768D4395DEE3158346FE4C11649DB7ESESSMB107erics_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: <14CBF028D80B9D45BF2CAF9CD98D2FB0@ericsson.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable If someone from ppsp would be interested to come to the ICNRG meeting on Su= nday and present the video streaming work of ppsp this would be most welcom= e, for meeting details and registration please see http://trac.tools.ietf.org/g= roup/irtf/trac/wiki/icnrg

(Anyone is of course welcome to attend the meeting even if you are not= willing to make a presentation.)

I think it would be great to have a discussion on how the video stream= ing work in ppsp and icnrg relates to each other and which synergies could = be possible.

B=F6rj= e

On 17 okt 2013, at 18:13, Jeff Thompson <jeff@thefirst.org>

wrote:

Is anyone from PPSP going to the ICNRG sessi= on on Sunday, Nov. 5? They are also discussing video streaming with h= ash-based names.
"Adaptive Video Streaming over ICN"
http://users.soe.ucsc.edu/~= cedric/papers/draft-video-streaming-over-ICN-00.txt

This doesn't seem to mention the video streaming with has-based names in th= e PPSPP draft (or vice versa). What is the cross-pollination between = PPSP and ICNRG?

Thanks,
- Jeff

Hi all,

The ppsp session is scheduled on 1610-1840 at Plaza C on Tuesday,November 5, = 2013. See you all in Vancouver.

BR

Yunfei&Ning

_______________________________________________
ppsp mailing list
ppsp@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp

--_000_3B84A5B629768D4395DEE3158346FE4C11649DB7ESESSMB107erics_-- From ron.even.tlv@gmail.com Sat Oct 19 02:32:32 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ppsp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ppsp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F370711E8196 for ; Sat, 19 Oct 2013 02:32:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.001, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IAKV0OXUa2m8 for ; Sat, 19 Oct 2013 02:32:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wg0-x22b.google.com (mail-wg0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c00::22b]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9A5A11E819B for ; Sat, 19 Oct 2013 02:32:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wg0-f43.google.com with SMTP id b13so4712162wgh.10 for ; Sat, 19 Oct 2013 02:32:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version:content-type :thread-index:content-language; bh=wbEUVuHNZ3g1RF07rj6sWri1G4a9Ne+Zw9uxMbsEftw=; b=ZtSjAiOOCjtdppjSL51C6RfRhHEV9uS3XuNy8mgAn/xAbl+e0eS5TQeZyZntEgDE5p OFimzWoyPoi1rLRHg6wDgwBxRPDNtncwpQ/B/7slCfoFaVwYPNj9obBBJOi7N/Xh0yfv D60wXa6FKF5fPecxVHaahorkR9ntOuf21NvHteJ5ntC1FtvIbhFLbAIf3MYJ/lZzekeC TfCoUpkQBx4bNKLypKOkS0wHdCWnV+ylCqT8Xypm7ARuT+AQ9ZMpg7dK52ghabeeCqFS fwllxnO0ghgJ4hWGhLo37Id//LwYm4SPKe/WjlBRDibyUtUtAgZGSC/m5M3enJbCjjeK y43A== X-Received: by 10.194.178.100 with SMTP id cx4mr654052wjc.60.1382175149690; Sat, 19 Oct 2013 02:32:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from RoniE (bzq-79-181-191-27.red.bezeqint.net. [79.181.191.27]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id fr4sm35010147wib.0.2013.10.19.02.32.27 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Sat, 19 Oct 2013 02:32:29 -0700 (PDT) From: "Roni Even" To: Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2013 12:29:23 +0300 Message-ID: <051501ceccad$b4247620$1c6d6260$@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0516_01CECCC6.D9729880" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: Ac7MlPaFCjkwjkFRSj6LMJFxIL54Ig== Content-Language: en-us Subject: [ppsp] Quaetions on tracker and peer protocols X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2013 09:32:32 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0516_01CECCC6.D9729880 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, I did not follow the work on PPSP closely but I read the current tracker peer protocol drafts and have some questions. 1. The tracker document has xml examples but has no protocol description. I think I saw some discussion about having a binary protocol and looking forward to see it. This will need to be reflected also in the IANA section. 2. I noticed that the peers provide addresses when connecting to the tracker and the tracker may be a stun server but I am not sure if this will be enough for NAT traversal. I would expect some discussion on what addresses can be supplied. Maybe look at the p2psip base draft about the data structures, there may be a need for more ICE address candidates. More text should be in the peer protocol document. 3. It is also not clear what types of transport are allowed and supported, the only one mentioned is UDP with LEDBAT for congestion control. There is some mention of DTLS in the security section but I think that currently the IESG will require some mandatory secure transport or an explanation why one is not specified. Maybe propose DTLS over UDP/ICE for transport. 4. I did not see in the requirements the need to support establishing and using connections between peers separated by one or more NATs. 5. In the peer protocol the HANDSHAKE message does not discuss NAT traversal using ICE to supply more candidates. Is the PEX_REQ and PEX_RES messages duplicating ICE? 6. About using PEX_RES message for introducing peers; if peer B and C are in one address domain and A and D are in other than it may happen that peer C and D will have the same IP address, so when B sends to A in the PEX_RES the address of C then A may send PEX_RES to D? 7. In the peer protocol what is the data format the example in section 8.6 have the DATA as ASCII encoded. Thanks Roni Even ------=_NextPart_000_0516_01CECCC6.D9729880 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,

I did not = follow the work on PPSP closely but I read the current tracker peer = protocol drafts and have some questions.

1. = The tracker document has = xml examples but has no protocol description. I think I saw some = discussion about having a binary protocol and looking forward to see it. = This will need to be reflected also in the IANA = section.

2. = I noticed that the = peers provide addresses when connecting to the tracker and the tracker = may be a stun server but I am not sure if this will be enough for NAT = traversal. I would expect some discussion on what addresses can be = supplied. Maybe look at the p2psip base draft about the data structures, = there may be a need for more ICE address candidates. More text should be = in the peer protocol document.

3. = It is also not = clear what types of transport are allowed and supported, the only one = mentioned is UDP with LEDBAT for congestion control. There is some = mention of DTLS in the security section but I think that currently the = IESG will require some mandatory secure transport or an explanation why = one is not specified. Maybe propose DTLS over UDP/ICE for = transport.

4. = I did not see in = the requirements the need to support = establishing and using connections between peers separated by one or = more NATs.

5. = In the peer protocol the HANDSHAKE message does = not discuss NAT traversal using ICE to supply more candidates. Is the = PEX_REQ and PEX_RES messages duplicating ICE?

6. = About using PEX_RES message for introducing peers; = if peer B and C are in one address domain and A and D are in other than = it may happen that peer C and D will have the same IP address, so when B = sends to A in the PEX_RES the address of C then A may send PEX_RES to = D?

7. = In the peer protocol what is the data format the = example in section 8.6 have the DATA as ASCII encoded. =

Thanks

Roni = Even

------=_NextPart_000_0516_01CECCC6.D9729880-- From hishigh@gmail.com Sun Oct 20 05:35:31 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ppsp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ppsp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A9E411E81BC for ; Sun, 20 Oct 2013 05:35:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.049 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.049 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.350, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_64=0.6, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3JNMA+osWfAG for ; Sun, 20 Oct 2013 05:35:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ob0-x22d.google.com (mail-ob0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c01::22d]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E5DF11E81A3 for ; Sun, 20 Oct 2013 05:35:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ob0-f173.google.com with SMTP id gq1so1078973obb.18 for ; Sun, 20 Oct 2013 05:35:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=mAADMnI/GVkVYiAYa9F6BKD6ok7S1Y+cbHOgZ6UglIE=; b=GExDfpbtPOvqa+WEH0tXPScVN/TNnRKlnQlPxLzt4m2xW+1rmm+gm+8nuCe4NJbwYX 7CsZaBgm20ESfJoa4FuOodk1JTqZYZYl5DllbRWpC2cJcgBweFVO65dmJabo3i9ulMfE 69FoZlx8M8pXhob0hfnO3TAzdi+1vGAn7k8+EJ5f7iVDX1kXV17q5KhCn70N+e+9dAxJ YLzgFd5cAhS53IJXffg2HBARHVvrqAhyuBlfHqMunm8eP9uzvz/2gYXugQom9Se6Nw11 JFLbAypKh70IfUrP4HNK/41SeW7JFYuJFU6ZsgyVLBbxwMQTN3iNjenLL5pw1B/HlSTT PFBQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.60.78.227 with SMTP id e3mr2920581oex.5.1382272529105; Sun, 20 Oct 2013 05:35:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.76.98.43 with HTTP; Sun, 20 Oct 2013 05:35:29 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <3B84A5B629768D4395DEE3158346FE4C11649DB7@ESESSMB107.ericsson.se> References: <52600CC3.4010505@thefirst.org> <3B84A5B629768D4395DEE3158346FE4C11649DB7@ESESSMB107.ericsson.se> Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2013 20:35:29 +0800 Message-ID: From: yunfei zhang To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?B=F6rje_Ohlman?= Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e0111bca4148fe004e92b67b5 Cc: ppsp , icnrg Subject: Re: [ppsp] Video streaming in ppsp and icnrg X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2013 12:35:31 -0000 --089e0111bca4148fe004e92b67b5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Borje, I may possibly have time to attend the ICNRG meeting and if I can attend this meeting, I would be glad to introduce the progress of PPSP and discuss the possbile cooperation. BR Yunfei 2013/10/18 B=F6rje Ohlman > If someone from ppsp would be interested to come to the ICNRG meeting on > Sunday and present the video streaming work of ppsp this would be most > welcome, for meeting details and registration please see > http://trac.tools.ietf.org/group/irtf/trac/wiki/icnrg > (Anyone is of course welcome to attend the meeting even if you are not > willing to make a presentation.) > > I think it would be great to have a discussion on how the video > streaming work in ppsp and icnrg relates to each other and which synergie= s > could be possible. > > B=F6rje > > On 17 okt 2013, at 18:13, Jeff Thompson > wrote: > > Is anyone from PPSP going to the ICNRG session on Sunday, Nov. 5? They > are also discussing video streaming with hash-based names. > "Adaptive Video Streaming over ICN" > > http://users.soe.ucsc.edu/~cedric/papers/draft-video-streaming-over-ICN-0= 0.txt > > This doesn't seem to mention the video streaming with has-based names in > the PPSPP draft (or vice versa). What is the cross-pollination between > PPSP and ICNRG? > > Thanks, > - Jeff > > Hi all, > The ppsp session is scheduled on 1610-1840 at Plaza C on > Tuesday,November 5, 2013. See you all in Vancouver. > > BR > Yunfei&Ning > > > _______________________________________________ > ppsp mailing list > ppsp@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp > > > > _______________________________________________ > ppsp mailing list > ppsp@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp > > --089e0111bca4148fe004e92b67b5 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Borje,

=A0=A0=A0 I may possibly have tim= e to attend the ICNRG meeting and if I can attend this meeting, I would be = glad to introduce the progress of PPSP and discuss the possbile cooperation= .

=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 BR

=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Yunfei

2013/10/1= 8 B=F6rje Ohlman <borje.ohlman@ericsson.com>

If someone from ppsp would be interested to come to the ICNRG meeting on Su= nday and present the video streaming work of ppsp this would be most welcom= e, for meeting details and registration please see=A0http://trac.t= ools.ietf.org/group/irtf/trac/wiki/icnrg
(Anyone is of course welcome to attend the meeting even if you are not= willing to make a presentation.)

I think it would be great to have a discussion on how the video stream= ing work in ppsp and icnrg relates to each other and which synergies could = be possible.

B=F6rje

On 17 okt 2013, at 18:13, Jeff Thompson <jeff@thefirst.org>

=A0wrote:

Is anyone from PPSP going to the ICNRG session on Sunday, Nov. 5?=A0 T= hey are also discussing video streaming with hash-based names.
"Adaptive Video Streaming over ICN"
http://users.soe.ucsc.edu/~cedric/papers/= draft-video-streaming-over-ICN-00.txt

This doesn't seem to mention the video streaming with has-based names i= n the PPSPP draft (or vice versa).=A0 What is the cross-pollination between= PPSP and ICNRG?

Thanks,
- Jeff

Hi all,

=A0=A0 The ppsp session is scheduled on 1610-1840=A0at Plaza C o= n Tuesday,November 5, 2013. See you all in Vancouver.

=A0

BR

Yunfei&Ning

_______________________________________________
ppsp mailing list
ppsp@ietf.org
ht= tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp

_______________________________________________
ppsp mailing list
ppsp@ietf.org
ht= tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp

--089e0111bca4148fe004e92b67b5-- From hishigh@gmail.com Sun Oct 20 05:46:39 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ppsp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ppsp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F8E911E83B8 for ; Sun, 20 Oct 2013 05:46:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.089 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.089 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.090, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_64=0.6, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pI+sVExR5hi9 for ; Sun, 20 Oct 2013 05:46:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ob0-x230.google.com (mail-ob0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c01::230]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AE5B11E83C7 for ; Sun, 20 Oct 2013 05:46:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ob0-f176.google.com with SMTP id uy5so2626152obc.21 for ; Sun, 20 Oct 2013 05:46:38 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=9RY9/jAe7U3Lp78MH7OEOjJvyfHhdbxVzA8IShvGBaE=; b=EyVNbA2Ikg0TZLV49+EzrYkIp2QFwACVGiA0R3AH4Pq8i2pIPhzLHXFE4VW0m+828b 2kjybXC1XYtyDRTWUFc3pJuh4bT9h4HExmMFihA5jGWLNp6uRTJ/UpJS51CJv9bBK0LV SadgJIdIDNADrE1x7vpOn7tYqQJ/Urguori6aCmm/catGBdjQTDKSQJS4v/ojL4Ax7cz WmQwzlPmiJYow2+fasNmfnCyspapXTy/fVnyfnQiU3hXfEa8DMj06EXaBCGkyFfGinN/ Dc63yhfb+96K+x46ws+YtUcGa0n+VtFAvIcv9eYFogz4k5jXzSp6ExqEgzjw+LUtx2sY BUEQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.60.80.8 with SMTP id n8mr2890981oex.33.1382273197932; Sun, 20 Oct 2013 05:46:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.76.98.43 with HTTP; Sun, 20 Oct 2013 05:46:37 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <52600CC3.4010505@thefirst.org> References: <52600CC3.4010505@thefirst.org> Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2013 20:46:37 +0800 Message-ID: From: yunfei zhang To: Jeff Thompson Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e01160678f206ed04e92b8ea9 Cc: "ppsp@ietf.org" , icnrg Subject: Re: [ppsp] PPSP session in IETF 88 X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2013 12:46:39 -0000 --089e01160678f206ed04e92b8ea9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi Jeff, Thanks for the information. As discussed in the previous PPSP meeting, the naming type of the video streaming is the premise but out of scope of PPSP. We assume that the tracker/peer identifies the stream with well-known naming solutions, including hash-based names. Another difference is that PPSP assumes running in the current Internet and ICN may be a future internet implementation. So after finishing the current tracker and peer protocol design, we may think about how to incorpate with/import into ICN. BR Yunfei 2013/10/18 Jeff Thompson > Is anyone from PPSP going to the ICNRG session on Sunday, Nov. 5? They > are also discussing video streaming with hash-based names. > "Adaptive Video Streaming over ICN" > > http://users.soe.ucsc.edu/~cedric/papers/draft-video-streaming-over-ICN-00.txt > > This doesn't seem to mention the video streaming with has-based names in > the PPSPP draft (or vice versa). What is the cross-pollination between > PPSP and ICNRG? > > Thanks, > - Jeff > > Hi all, > The ppsp session is scheduled on 1610-1840 at Plaza C on > Tuesday,November 5, 2013. See you all in Vancouver. > > BR > Yunfei&Ning > > > > _______________________________________________ > ppsp mailing list > ppsp@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp > > --089e01160678f206ed04e92b8ea9 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Jeff,

=A0=A0=A0 Thanks for the information. As discussed in the previou= s PPSP=A0meeting, the naming=A0type of the video streaming is the premise b= ut out of scope of PPSP. We assume that the tracker/peer identifies the str= eam with well-known naming solutions, including hash-based names.

=A0=A0=A0=A0 Another difference is that PPSP ass= umes running in the current Internet and ICN may be a future internet imple= mentation. So after finishing the current tracker and peer protocol design,= we may think about how to incorpate with/import into=A0ICN.

=A0

Yunfei

2013/10/18 Jeff Thompson &= lt;jeff@thefirst.org= >

=20 =20 =20

Is anyone from PPSP going to the ICNRG session on Sunday, Nov. 5?=A0 They are also discussing video streaming with hash-based names.
"Adaptive Video Streaming over ICN"
http://users.soe.ucsc.edu/~cedric/papers/= draft-video-streaming-over-ICN-00.txt

This doesn't seem to mention the video streaming with has-based names in the PPSPP draft (or vice versa).=A0 What is the cross-pollination between PPSP and ICNRG?

Thanks,
- Jeff

Hi all,

=A0=A0 The ppsp session is scheduled on 1610-1840=A0at Plaza C on Tuesday,November 5, 2013. See you all in Vancouver.

=A0

BR

Yunfei&Ning

_______________________________________________
ppsp mailing list
ppsp@ietf.org
ht= tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp

--089e01160678f206ed04e92b8ea9-- From denglingli@chinamobile.com Sun Oct 20 19:44:57 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ppsp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ppsp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD8AA11E8118 for ; Sun, 20 Oct 2013 19:44:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 3.161 X-Spam-Level: *** X-Spam-Status: No, score=3.161 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=3.086, BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RELAY_IS_221=2.222, SARE_SUB_ENC_UTF8=0.152] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wynBgMVy7A+q for ; Sun, 20 Oct 2013 19:44:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cmccmta.chinamobile.com (cmccmta.chinamobile.com [221.176.64.232]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 2BC9811E8312 for ; Sun, 20 Oct 2013 19:44:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spf.mail.chinamobile.com (unknown[172.16.20.11]) by rmmx-oa_allagent02-12002 (RichMail) with SMTP id 2ee2526494bd58d-7f58d; Mon, 21 Oct 2013 10:43:09 +0800 (CST) X-RM-TRANSID: 2ee2526494bd58d-7f58d Received: from cmccPC (unknown[10.2.52.235]) by rmsmtp-oa_rmapp01-12001 (RichMail) with SMTP id 2ee1526494bc4b1-b9f81; Mon, 21 Oct 2013 10:43:09 +0800 (CST) X-RM-TRANSID: 2ee1526494bc4b1-b9f81 From: =?utf-8?B?6YKT54G16I6JL0xpbmdsaSBEZW5n?= To: "'ppsp'" Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2013 10:44:43 +0800 Message-ID: <01ab01cece07$7f966a20$7ec33e60$@com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: Ac7NetfEdclJoX55Sl2K9BPae+whiQAi/8Jw Content-Language: zh-cn Subject: [ppsp] =?utf-8?b?6L2s5Y+ROiBOZXcgVmVyc2lvbiBOb3RpZmljYXRpb24gZm9y?= =?utf-8?q?_draft-deng-ppsp-bfbitmap-03=2Etxt?= X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2013 02:44:57 -0000 Hi all, With Rachel's help and input, we have updated the BF draft, with more = specific description about PPSP protocol integration added. After a preliminary analysis, it seems that both the current extended = tracker protocol and peer protocol can incorporate this new algorithm = pretty easily. Your comments are more than welcome. BR Lingli -----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6----- =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: internet-drafts@ietf.org = [mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org]=20 =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: = 2013=E5=B9=B410=E6=9C=8820=E6=97=A5 17:44 =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Deng Lingli; Yunfei Zhang; Yihong Huang; = Jin Peng; Lingli Deng; Rachel Huang =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: New Version Notification for = draft-deng-ppsp-bfbitmap-03.txt A new version of I-D, draft-deng-ppsp-bfbitmap-03.txt has been successfully submitted by Lingli Deng and posted to the IETF repository. Filename: draft-deng-ppsp-bfbitmap Revision: 03 Title: Efficient Chunk Availability Compression for PPSP Creation date: 2013-10-20 Group: Individual Submission Number of pages: 12 URL: = http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-deng-ppsp-bfbitmap-03.txt Status: = http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-deng-ppsp-bfbitmap Htmlized: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-deng-ppsp-bfbitmap-03 Diff: = http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-deng-ppsp-bfbitmap-03 Abstract: Bloom filters are proposed to be used in compressing chunk availability information, periodically exchanged between peers and the tracker through PPSP-TP and PPSPP protocols, to reduce relevant cost and enhance scalability. = =20 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of = submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. The IETF Secretariat From zongning@huawei.com Mon Oct 21 01:39:57 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ppsp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ppsp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD07011E817E for ; Mon, 21 Oct 2013 01:39:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.299 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.299 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.300, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_64=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BLc1-FVDFcJO for ; Mon, 21 Oct 2013 01:39:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4041011E84B2 for ; Mon, 21 Oct 2013 01:39:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml204-edg.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id AZH09822; Mon, 21 Oct 2013 08:39:36 +0000 (GMT) Received: from LHREML402-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.241) by lhreml204-edg.china.huawei.com (172.18.7.223) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.146.0; Mon, 21 Oct 2013 09:38:35 +0100 Received: from NKGEML402-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.33) by lhreml402-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.241) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.146.0; Mon, 21 Oct 2013 09:39:16 +0100 Received: from NKGEML501-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.2.141]) by nkgeml402-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.33]) with mapi id 14.03.0146.000; Mon, 21 Oct 2013 16:39:11 +0800 From: Zongning To: Jeff Thompson , "ppsp@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [ppsp] PPSP session in IETF 88 Thread-Index: AQHOyzpPZCw2gUmPNEWfatP2Id+R8Jn4izCAgAZPzrA= Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2013 08:39:11 +0000 Message-ID: References: <52600CC3.4010505@thefirst.org> In-Reply-To: <52600CC3.4010505@thefirst.org> Accept-Language: en-US, zh-CN Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.138.41.48] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_B0D29E0424F2DE47A0B36779EC666779258069FEnkgeml501mbschi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Subject: Re: [ppsp] PPSP session in IETF 88 X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2013 08:39:58 -0000 --_000_B0D29E0424F2DE47A0B36779EC666779258069FEnkgeml501mbschi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Jeff, I checked IETF agenda and the ICNRG session is scheduled on Thursday? https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/88/agenda.html Let me know if you mentioned other session... Thanks. -Ning From: ppsp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Jef= f Thompson Sent: Friday, October 18, 2013 12:14 AM To: ppsp@ietf.org Subject: Re: [ppsp] PPSP session in IETF 88 Is anyone from PPSP going to the ICNRG session on Sunday, Nov. 5? They are= also discussing video streaming with hash-based names. "Adaptive Video Streaming over ICN" http://users.soe.ucsc.edu/~cedric/papers/draft-video-streaming-over-ICN-00.= txt This doesn't seem to mention the video streaming with has-based names in th= e PPSPP draft (or vice versa). What is the cross-pollination between PPSP = and ICNRG? Thanks, - Jeff Hi all, The ppsp session is scheduled on 1610-1840 at Plaza C on Tuesday,Novembe= r 5, 2013. See you all in Vancouver. BR Yunfei&Ning --_000_B0D29E0424F2DE47A0B36779EC666779258069FEnkgeml501mbschi_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi, Jeff,<= o:p>

= ;

I checked = IETF agenda and the ICNRG session is scheduled on Thursday?

https://datatracker.i= etf.org/meeting/88/agenda.html

Let me kno= w if you mentioned other session…

Thanks.

= ;

-Ning=

= ;

From:= ppsp-bounces@ietf.o= rg [mailto:ppsp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Thompson
Sent: Friday, October 18, 2013 12:14 AM
To: ppsp@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [ppsp] PPSP session in IETF 88

= Is anyone from PPSP going to the ICNRG session on Sunday, Nov. 5? The= y are also discussing video streaming with hash-based names.
"Adaptive Video Streaming over ICN"
http://users.soe.ucsc.edu/~cedric/papers/draft-video-stream= ing-over-ICN-00.txt

This doesn't seem to mention the video streaming with has-based names in th= e PPSPP draft (or vice versa). What is the cross-pollination between = PPSP and ICNRG?

Thanks,
- Jeff

Hi all,

The ppsp session i= s scheduled on 1610-1840 at Plaza C o= n Tuesday,November 5, 2013. See you all in Vancouver.

BR

Yunfei&Ning

--_000_B0D29E0424F2DE47A0B36779EC666779258069FEnkgeml501mbschi_-- From borje.ohlman@ericsson.com Mon Oct 21 07:09:05 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ppsp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ppsp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A814311E8554 for ; Mon, 21 Oct 2013 07:09:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.891 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.891 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.457, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_SE=0.35, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_64=0.6, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7Er670gfwdVO for ; Mon, 21 Oct 2013 07:08:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailgw1.ericsson.se (mailgw1.ericsson.se [193.180.251.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8086511E83EC for ; Mon, 21 Oct 2013 07:08:57 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c1b4fb2d-b7f738e000003ee3-e1-5265357852ea Received: from ESESSHC016.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.253.124]) by mailgw1.ericsson.se (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id A2.46.16099.87535625; Mon, 21 Oct 2013 16:08:56 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESSMB107.ericsson.se ([169.254.7.152]) by ESESSHC016.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.66]) with mapi id 14.02.0328.009; Mon, 21 Oct 2013 16:08:56 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?B=F6rje_Ohlman?= To: yunfei zhang Thread-Topic: [ppsp] Video streaming in ppsp and icnrg Thread-Index: AQHOzAr1517KoKDcvE+6XBUPTA+Fa5n9aBqAgAGsjYA= Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2013 14:08:56 +0000 Message-ID: <3B84A5B629768D4395DEE3158346FE4C1165C1FE@ESESSMB107.ericsson.se> References: <52600CC3.4010505@thefirst.org> <3B84A5B629768D4395DEE3158346FE4C11649DB7@ESESSMB107.ericsson.se> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.154] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_3B84A5B629768D4395DEE3158346FE4C1165C1FEESESSMB107erics_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFvrNLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM+JvjW6FaWqQwf0GTYs/N/sYLXbO3slk 8e71DGYHZo+ds+6yeyxZ8pPJY/LGw2wBzFFcNimpOZllqUX6dglcGW+2P2IveGFW8XkBVwNj p34XIyeHhICJxKuG3ywQtpjEhXvr2boYuTiEBA4zSnSenw/lLGGUmHp2OStIFZuAo8T7pwfA bBEBFYnHDXfZQGxmAQOJ1oPbwWxhAVOJDXO3MkHUmEkc/9fKDGFbSbw5eAmshkVAVeLDhXaw zbwCvhLbfi9ihlj2l1Hi6I4v7CAJToFAiVP7/oM1MwrISnxpXM0MsUxc4taT+UwQZwtILNlz nhnCFpV4+fgfK4StJLHo9mcmiPp8iesHexkhlglKnJz5hGUCo+gsJKNmISmbhaQMIq4ncWPq FDYIW1ti2cLXzBC2rsSMf4egaqwljp5/wISsZgEjxypG9tzEzJz0csNNjMAIPLjlt+4OxlPn RA4xSnOwKInzfnjrHCQkkJ5YkpqdmlqQWhRfVJqTWnyIkYmDU6qBMe+xxfGjbhxZF7YkOFya s7XARitB+9HWTpmfH4LizHxkVqwNPvUw7rbCnYwSY9lVLpXn+5g1XmS25y4MDhBNvuYXk3Wr Lvvps2/aSyrFy3Rv79wrc/zrx1U/Mw9IG/ntW9E4KaD60j1jk7d1y7ffzHZcaaHLq3v9UN7q G/4Lr4Ru+PxmfU9ZvBJLcUaioRZzUXEiANcDZwuOAgAA Cc: ppsp , icnrg Subject: Re: [ppsp] Video streaming in ppsp and icnrg X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2013 14:09:05 -0000 --_000_3B84A5B629768D4395DEE3158346FE4C1165C1FEESESSMB107erics_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Yunfei, If it is possible for you to attend our Sunday meeting it would be great to= have a presentation of the current status of ppsp and then have an open di= scussion on how your work relates to what we are planning to do in the icnr= g. B=F6rje On 20 okt 2013, at 14:35, yunfei zhang > wrote: Hi Borje, I may possibly have time to attend the ICNRG meeting and if I can atten= d this meeting, I would be glad to introduce the progress of PPSP and discu= ss the possbile cooperation. BR Yunfei 2013/10/18 B=F6rje Ohlman > If someone from ppsp would be interested to come to the ICNRG meeting on Su= nday and present the video streaming work of ppsp this would be most welcom= e, for meeting details and registration please see http://trac.tools.ietf.o= rg/group/irtf/trac/wiki/icnrg (Anyone is of course welcome to attend the meeting even if you are not will= ing to make a presentation.) I think it would be great to have a discussion on how the video streaming w= ork in ppsp and icnrg relates to each other and which synergies could be po= ssible. B=F6rje On 17 okt 2013, at 18:13, Jeff Thompson > wrote: Is anyone from PPSP going to the ICNRG session on Sunday, Nov. 5? They are= also discussing video streaming with hash-based names. "Adaptive Video Streaming over ICN" http://users.soe.ucsc.edu/~cedric/papers/draft-video-streaming-over-ICN-00.= txt This doesn't seem to mention the video streaming with has-based names in th= e PPSPP draft (or vice versa). What is the cross-pollination between PPSP = and ICNRG? Thanks, - Jeff Hi all, The ppsp session is scheduled on 1610-1840 at Plaza C on Tuesday,Novembe= r 5, 2013. See you all in Vancouver. BR Yunfei&Ning _______________________________________________ ppsp mailing list ppsp@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp _______________________________________________ ppsp mailing list ppsp@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp --_000_3B84A5B629768D4395DEE3158346FE4C1165C1FEESESSMB107erics_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: <3973EB6EA7708D45AEB1F649768FAF1F@ericsson.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Yunfei,

If it is possible for you to attend our Sunday meeting it would be gre= at to have a presentation of the current status of ppsp and then have an op= en discussion on how your work relates to what we are planning to do in the= icnrg.

B=F6rj= e

On 20 okt 2013, at 14:35, yunfei zhang <hishigh@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Borje,

    I may possibly have time to attend the ICNRG meetin= g and if I can attend this meeting, I would be glad to introduce the progre= ss of PPSP and discuss the possbile cooperation.

      BR

      Yunfei

2013/10/18 B=F6rje Ohlman <= borje.ohlman= @ericsson.com>

If someone from ppsp would be interested to come to the ICN= RG meeting on Sunday and present the video streaming work of ppsp this woul= d be most welcome, for meeting details and registration please see http://trac.tools.ietf.org/group/irtf/trac/wiki/icnrg
(Anyone is of course welcome to attend the meeting even if you are not= willing to make a presentation.)

I think it would be great to have a discussion on how the video stream= ing work in ppsp and icnrg relates to each other and which synergies could = be possible.

B=F6rje

On 17 okt 2013, at 18:13, Jeff Thompson <jeff@thefirst.org>

wrote:

Is anyone from PPSP going to the ICNRG session on Sunday, Nov. 5? = ; They are also discussing video streaming with hash-based names.
"Adaptive Video Streaming over ICN"
http://users.soe.ucsc.edu/~cedric/papers/= draft-video-streaming-over-ICN-00.txt

This doesn't seem to mention the video streaming with has-based names in th= e PPSPP draft (or vice versa). What is the cross-pollination between = PPSP and ICNRG?

Thanks,
- Jeff

Hi all,

   The ppsp session is scheduled on 1610-1840 at = Plaza C on Tuesday,November 5, 2013. See you all in Vancouver.

BR

Yunfei&Ning

_______________________________________________
ppsp mailing list
ppsp@ietf.org
ht= tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp

_______________________________________________
ppsp mailing list
ppsp@ietf.org
ht= tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp

--_000_3B84A5B629768D4395DEE3158346FE4C1165C1FEESESSMB107erics_-- From peer2peer@gmail.com Mon Oct 21 07:15:47 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ppsp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ppsp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09D6111E857B for ; Mon, 21 Oct 2013 07:15:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_64=0.6, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gvadLTLEAqUx for ; Mon, 21 Oct 2013 07:15:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wi0-x22c.google.com (mail-wi0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c05::22c]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D82B11E856B for ; Mon, 21 Oct 2013 07:15:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wi0-f172.google.com with SMTP id ez12so4010622wid.17 for ; Mon, 21 Oct 2013 07:15:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=O3Bitywt/4Ljo5w2qLzRgPZbSoeP2wGQeGhLKuqslCE=; b=FUBhr9Hz7HfV64VtVEEaCxKE9S4IytcgxjrC9gtCcHYWOEigk7E1E2Uh8BfGXIRhfj p2hCZ6TfztYCUUECLrqCpgNZiEq6GBAg9uvNKDpf7CGj0n1rYAgfmLf9CjmnX3uDP3w9 usRhSJytu100gwAIRu9z//hj2H9+zTxtzSIhs6FaMR85LAF+gv7LxMVjOg5+ijCyO2hT OAx6aXKzsE5hgmnNHkXJeLUdI1zjY8y3gumrpTEto1ob3suXU6tUf1jYWijbb1XB5769 Bxdj4t/eX/9XaAOURgWOigdvFu8AEurR4mBI1XC4ZiMhqlIdGBPfvPHTN+NcKZHRMgQN Ibbw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.180.187.202 with SMTP id fu10mr10107980wic.59.1382364930458; Mon, 21 Oct 2013 07:15:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.5.130 with HTTP; Mon, 21 Oct 2013 07:15:30 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <52600CC3.4010505@thefirst.org> Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2013 16:15:30 +0200 Message-ID: From: Johan Pouwelse To: yunfei zhang Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: "ppsp@ietf.org" , icnrg Subject: Re: [ppsp] PPSP session in IETF 88 X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2013 14:15:47 -0000 Dear ICNRG and PPSP, PPSP is designed from the start with ICN in mind. (more details below) > "Adaptive Video Streaming over ICN" > http://users.soe.ucsc.edu/~cedric/papers/draft-video-streaming-over-ICN-00.txt That is a nice document, it nails the real challenges very well in my opinion. The best line I found was: "Naming of the data in DASH does not necessarily follow the ICN convention of any of the ICN proposals." I would propose a very generic solution: appending multiple formats&bitrates into a single file. Then you can use a simple content hash and byte position for everything. About ICN and PP2P.. We are now doing an ICN hardware implementation on NetFPGA platform. All with the PPSP protocol. Our Xilinx ICN hardware implementation of Libswift can parse PPSP messages and SHA1 calulations. Msc thesis report .PDF: http://repository.tudelft.nl/assets/uuid:1d235433-6f66-42a6-87b1-ef2843f0db38/gustavoverdugo_thesis.pdf So there is some running code of ICN+PPSP... For IETF 89 in London I would love to give a talk on this in the ICNRG session. > Another difference is that PPSP assumes running in the current Internet > and ICN may be a future internet implementation. The protocol now adopted by PPSP was designed by my team roughly four years ago. However, the ICN part of the protocol is out of scope of PPSP. Libswift is our reference implementation, it currently is deployed and in use by 24000 Internet users. Documentation of the ICN part of Libswift: www.pds.ewi.tudelft.nl/fileadmin/pds/reports/2011/PDS-2011-006.pdf Greetings, johan. On 20 October 2013 14:46, yunfei zhang wrote: > Hi Jeff, > Thanks for the information. As discussed in the previous PPSP meeting, > the naming type of the video streaming is the premise but out of scope of > PPSP. We assume that the tracker/peer identifies the stream with well-known > naming solutions, including hash-based names. > Another difference is that PPSP assumes running in the current Internet > and ICN may be a future internet implementation. So after finishing the > current tracker and peer protocol design, we may think about how to > incorpate with/import into ICN. > > > BR > Yunfei > > 2013/10/18 Jeff Thompson >> >> Is anyone from PPSP going to the ICNRG session on Sunday, Nov. 5? They >> are also discussing video streaming with hash-based names. >> "Adaptive Video Streaming over ICN" >> >> http://users.soe.ucsc.edu/~cedric/papers/draft-video-streaming-over-ICN-00.txt >> >> This doesn't seem to mention the video streaming with has-based names in >> the PPSPP draft (or vice versa). What is the cross-pollination between PPSP >> and ICNRG? >> >> Thanks, >> - Jeff >> >> Hi all, >> The ppsp session is scheduled on 1610-1840 at Plaza C on >> Tuesday,November 5, 2013. See you all in Vancouver. >> >> BR >> Yunfei&Ning >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> ppsp mailing list >> ppsp@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp >> > > > _______________________________________________ > ppsp mailing list > ppsp@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp > From a.bakker@vu.nl Mon Oct 21 23:36:41 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ppsp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ppsp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6894F11E8484 for ; Mon, 21 Oct 2013 23:36:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.504 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.504 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_NL=0.55, HOST_EQ_NL=1.545, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DVtgXfUh89OZ for ; Mon, 21 Oct 2013 23:36:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailin.vu.nl (mailin.vu.nl [130.37.164.16]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1606511E848B for ; Mon, 21 Oct 2013 23:35:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from PEXHB011A.vu.local (130.37.236.64) by mailin.vu.nl (130.37.164.16) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.298.4; Tue, 22 Oct 2013 08:35:14 +0200 Received: from [145.100.100.60] (130.37.253.20) by mails.vu.nl (130.37.236.64) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.298.4; Tue, 22 Oct 2013 08:35:16 +0200 Message-ID: <52661CAA.6050302@cs.vu.nl> Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2013 08:35:22 +0200 From: Arno Bakker User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:17.0) Gecko/17.0 Thunderbird/17.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ppsp References: <20131021183553.32508.42218.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20131021183553.32508.42218.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> X-Forwarded-Message-Id: <20131021183553.32508.42218.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-IP: [130.37.253.20] Subject: [ppsp] Fwd: New Version Notification - draft-ietf-ppsp-peer-protocol-08.txt X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: arno@cs.vu.nl List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2013 06:36:41 -0000 Hi Riccardo and I submitted a new version in that now contains responses to all of Martin's issues (see -07 Revision History). Hopefully they are satisfactory and we can move on to the next stage. In addition we made some modifications based on feedback: -08 2013-08-8 Continued Revision following AD Review Please see the -07 entry for our responses to the comments. Added ECDSAP256SHA256 and ECDSAP384SHA384 as mandatory-to- implement live signature algorithms, as they provide small swarm IDs. Added line that a peer SHOULD NOT send HAVEs to peers that already have the complete content (e.g. in video-on-demand scenarios). In response to a remark at WG meeting at IETF 87 we added a paragraph on OPTIONAL MTU discovery using PPSPP messages to Section 8.1. Talk to you (remotely) in Vancouver! Arno and Riccardo -------- Original Message -------- Subject: New Version Notification - draft-ietf-ppsp-peer-protocol-08.txt Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2013 20:36:13 +0200 Resent-From: Resent-To: , , , , Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2013 11:35:53 -0700 From: To: , , A new version (-08) has been submitted for draft-ietf-ppsp-peer-protocol: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ppsp-peer-protocol-08.txt The IETF datatracker page for this Internet-Draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ppsp-peer-protocol/ Diff from previous version: http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ppsp-peer-protocol-08 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. IETF Secretariat. From rui.cruz@ieee.org Tue Oct 22 03:39:39 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ppsp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ppsp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0B2911E8359 for ; Tue, 22 Oct 2013 03:39:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.298 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.298 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MANGLED_LOAN=2.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Kzi40oReWXb1 for ; Tue, 22 Oct 2013 03:39:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wg0-f45.google.com (mail-wg0-f45.google.com [74.125.82.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 371F511E835D for ; Tue, 22 Oct 2013 03:39:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wg0-f45.google.com with SMTP id z12so8024721wgg.24 for ; Tue, 22 Oct 2013 03:39:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:from:content-type:message-id:mime-version :subject:date:references:cc:to; bh=BWgA6Vk2l+LqsvZekmwNeDgrhMc1A4EeS4ku0PCJLSE=; b=H8PuldBOmYFj1Ba1+LrEuO+5zlC2S/mPqMhw6jXaeaj7Wc1AbN+ra3OYLcSvhQJR0a PGBwxTcTwFJCJCMW3B4I7mQY9LL4mJomqOTRfw5o/J+Ww6twC20lRfXblJHaBDZtIDEv v+xzl8gRxhGFXDCWRKLmeCPUk9QX92xjJJUXHArD8dEpL1l2zJchhFEykxcEgfA6qz6V fGB+VL0sjJO9y6nTIjxB9CnXwO9ASO9ovJAipVy8wUA2eVZWtCCrC36SotlT2sKenlMr QI+GSw+Zyr/I94LBGTY22nk6l0acMU9FZSL3lFm2ZhdVkDv8X3f0NsPP5zfJMbQOn9np dNdA== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQncWliR9Nejw0efbYnUOjKPNXymfLwU6MmPEUJ2s5jtxwNagBcIbGolg4bLQ+d/xqhDBdCQ X-Received: by 10.181.11.197 with SMTP id ek5mr3141037wid.7.1382438368969; Tue, 22 Oct 2013 03:39:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [194.210.222.27] ([194.210.222.27]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id q17sm5066529wiv.10.2013.10.22.03.39.28 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 22 Oct 2013 03:39:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Prof. Rui Santos Cruz Eng. Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_34318676-5ABE-4F76-889E-5E1A966CC568" Message-Id: <9D98B8E4-E414-43A6-836B-8A9A046FA1DF@ieee.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.6 $1510$) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2013 11:39:28 +0100 References: <20131021211446.32521.59932.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> To: "ppsp@ietf.org" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1510) Subject: [ppsp] New Version Notification for draft-ietf-ppsp-base-tracker-protocol-02.txt X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2013 10:39:40 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_34318676-5ABE-4F76-889E-5E1A966CC568 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi, We just submitted a new version of the Base Tracker Protocol, with = modifications corresponding to the suggestions and the issues raised = during last meeting, as well as from some feedback received. All changes are listed in Revision History -02. We hope that the draft might now be in satisfactory conditions to move = to the next stage. Some of us will be attending Vancouver remotely (including myself)! Rui Begin forwarded message: > From: internet-drafts@ietf.org > Subject: New Version Notification for = draft-ietf-ppsp-base-tracker-protocol-02.txt > Date: 21 de Outubro de 2013 22:14:46 WEST > To: Rui Santos Cruz , Deng Lingli = , Mario Serafim Nunes , Rui = Sant Cruz , Mario Sera Nunes , = Gu Yingjie , Jinwei Xia , = Deng Lingli <>, Joao P.Taveira >=20 >=20 > A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-ppsp-base-tracker-protocol-02.txt > has been successfully submitted by Rui Santos Cruz and posted to the > IETF repository. >=20 > Filename: draft-ietf-ppsp-base-tracker-protocol > Revision: 02 > Title: PPSP Tracker Protocol-Base Protocol = (PPSP-TP/1.0) > Creation date: 2013-10-21 > Group: ppsp > Number of pages: 56 > URL: = http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ppsp-base-tracker-protocol-= 02.txt > Status: = http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ppsp-base-tracker-protocol > Htmlized: = http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ppsp-base-tracker-protocol-02 > Diff: = http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-ppsp-base-tracker-protocol-0= 2 >=20 > Abstract: > This document specifies the base Peer-to-Peer Streaming Protocol- > Tracker Protocol (PPSP-TP/1.0), an application-layer control > (signaling) protocol for the exchange of meta information between > trackers and peers. The specification outlines the architecture of > the protocol and its functionality, and describes message flows, > message processing instructions, message formats, formal syntax and > semantics. The PPSP Tracker Protocol enables cooperating peers to > form content streaming overlay networks to support near real-time > Structured Media content delivery (audio, video, associated timed > text and metadata), such as adaptive multi-rate, layered (scalable) > and multi-view (3D) videos, in live, time-shifted and on-demand > modes. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of = submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >=20 > The IETF Secretariat >=20 --Apple-Mail=_34318676-5ABE-4F76-889E-5E1A966CC568 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

From: internet-drafts@ietf.org
<= /span>
Subject: New Version Notification for = draft-ietf-ppsp-base-tracker-protocol-02.txt
Date: 21 de Outubro de = 2013 22:14:46 WEST
To: Rui Santos Cruz <rui.cruz@ieee.org>, Deng Lingli = <None@ietfa.amsl.com>, = Mario Serafim Nunes <mario.nunes@inov.pt>, Rui = Sant Cruz <rui.cruz@ieee.org>, Mario Sera = Nunes <mario.nunes@inov.pt>, Gu = Yingjie <guyingjie@gmail.com>, Jinwei = Xia <xiajinwei@huawei.com>, Deng = Lingli <>, Joao P.Taveira <joao.silva@inov.pt>

A new version of I-D, = draft-ietf-ppsp-base-tracker-protocol-02.txt
has been successfully = submitted by Rui Santos Cruz and posted to the
IETF = repository.

Filename: = draft-ietf-ppsp-base-tracker-protocol
Revision: = 02
Title: = = PPSP Tracker Protocol-Base Protocol (PPSP-TP/1.0)
Creation = date: = 2013-10-21
Group: ppsp
Number of pages: = 56
URL: =             http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ppsp-base-t= racker-protocol-02.txt
Status: =          http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ppsp-base-tracker-protocol=
Htmlized:        http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ppsp-base-tracker-protocol-02=
Diff: =            http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-ppsp-base-tracker= -protocol-02

Abstract:
  This document = specifies the base Peer-to-Peer Streaming Protocol-
=   Tracker Protocol (PPSP-TP/1.0), an application-layer = control
  (signaling) protocol for the exchange of meta = information between
  trackers and peers. The = specification outlines the architecture of
  the protocol = and its functionality, and describes message flows,
=   message processing instructions, message formats, formal = syntax and
  semantics. The PPSP Tracker Protocol = enables cooperating peers to
  form content streaming = overlay networks to support near real-time
  Structured = Media content delivery (audio, video, associated timed
=   text and metadata), such as adaptive multi-rate, layered = (scalable)
  and multi-view (3D) videos, in live, = time-shifted and on-demand
=   modes.

Please note that it may take a = couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized = version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

The IETF = Secretariat

Hi all,

=A0=A0 Please see http://www.ietf.org/pro= ceedings/88/agenda/agenda-88-ppsp for detail.
=A0
=A0=A0=A0 Anyon= e on the agenda who has slides please forward them to=A0Ning and me.
=A0
=A0=A0=A0=A0 And of course, if anyone has additional agenda items pl= ease let us know.

=A0

P.S.:It's highly welcome if a= nyone volunteers to take notes.
=A0
Thanks in advance.

=A0<= /div>

Ning & Yunfei

--047d7bfe93fed17d1804e952ea8c-- From hishigh@gmail.com Tue Oct 22 04:45:38 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ppsp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ppsp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C86311E8354 for ; Tue, 22 Oct 2013 04:45:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.924 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.924 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.225, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_64=0.6, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id P9EQt5Y1NVIJ for ; Tue, 22 Oct 2013 04:45:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ob0-x236.google.com (mail-ob0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c01::236]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39B1111E818C for ; Tue, 22 Oct 2013 04:45:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ob0-f182.google.com with SMTP id va2so7306024obc.41 for ; Tue, 22 Oct 2013 04:45:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=ZrqNzp73Q8vHA4UkO+MK6T+1ZXCAPiRzWWXYn2wqxYk=; b=GwYr6XDsStE4nx97YDcT6rsVMvMbMqRFzU9tEiG281iPs5p47grSgag61UIXSYCBVh okOyd2X0S/X3JzvQSAV6yEVM09MeDQ4hJEk/mM5QzwNIWvemhNlZsDWdUHBq/PEciuzT BS/nY4zAMSU1xffYsLDokbrIBDrstUT6sS6/pQoKH3wjq74YGknDRba2EiyHBuNem5cW LVqXZaDg8yrn5ZkK6kwzwWjuMq3G8g2O0KPMtF15uM+fdJ9AlbLLSRNfVKZvA3sZ1IuR Asht9vukwnAIygyTwyC21uPUkpOViBoUDtNfCSp6t7QpuUmsehetzjdqPWXkdmFhM1gx vZDQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.182.73.231 with SMTP id o7mr25376299obv.34.1382442336837; Tue, 22 Oct 2013 04:45:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.76.98.43 with HTTP; Tue, 22 Oct 2013 04:45:36 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <3B84A5B629768D4395DEE3158346FE4C1165C1FE@ESESSMB107.ericsson.se> References: <52600CC3.4010505@thefirst.org> <3B84A5B629768D4395DEE3158346FE4C11649DB7@ESESSMB107.ericsson.se> <3B84A5B629768D4395DEE3158346FE4C1165C1FE@ESESSMB107.ericsson.se> Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2013 19:45:36 +0800 Message-ID: From: yunfei zhang To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?B=F6rje_Ohlman?= Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7bfe93fe68e76b04e952f0ea Cc: ppsp , icnrg Subject: Re: [ppsp] Video streaming in ppsp and icnrg X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2013 11:45:38 -0000 --047d7bfe93fe68e76b04e952f0ea Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Borje, I'll try to make it. I also discussed with Ning about this and he will go there as well if there is no time conflict. Yunfei 2013/10/21 B=F6rje Ohlman > Hi Yunfei, > > If it is possible for you to attend our Sunday meeting it would be great > to have a presentation of the current status of ppsp and then have an ope= n > discussion on how your work relates to what we are planning to do in the > icnrg. > > B=F6rje > > On 20 okt 2013, at 14:35, yunfei zhang wrote: > > Hi Borje, > I may possibly have time to attend the ICNRG meeting and if I can > attend this meeting, I would be glad to introduce the progress of PPSP an= d > discuss the possbile cooperation. > BR > Yunfei > > 2013/10/18 B=F6rje Ohlman > >> If someone from ppsp would be interested to come to the ICNRG meeting on >> Sunday and present the video streaming work of ppsp this would be most >> welcome, for meeting details and registration please see >> http://trac.tools.ietf.org/group/irtf/trac/wiki/icnrg >> (Anyone is of course welcome to attend the meeting even if you are not >> willing to make a presentation.) >> >> I think it would be great to have a discussion on how the video >> streaming work in ppsp and icnrg relates to each other and which synergi= es >> could be possible. >> >> B=F6rje >> >> On 17 okt 2013, at 18:13, Jeff Thompson >> wrote: >> >> Is anyone from PPSP going to the ICNRG session on Sunday, Nov. 5? They >> are also discussing video streaming with hash-based names. >> "Adaptive Video Streaming over ICN" >> >> http://users.soe.ucsc.edu/~cedric/papers/draft-video-streaming-over-ICN-= 00.txt >> >> This doesn't seem to mention the video streaming with has-based names in >> the PPSPP draft (or vice versa). What is the cross-pollination between >> PPSP and ICNRG? >> >> Thanks, >> - Jeff >> >> Hi all, >> The ppsp session is scheduled on 1610-1840 at Plaza C on >> Tuesday,November 5, 2013. See you all in Vancouver. >> >> BR >> Yunfei&Ning >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> ppsp mailing list >> ppsp@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> ppsp mailing list >> ppsp@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp >> >> > > --047d7bfe93fe68e76b04e952f0ea Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Borje,

=A0=A0=A0 I'll try to make it= . I also discussed with Ning about this and he will go there as well if the= re is no time conflict.

=A0

Yunfei

2013/10/21 B=F6rje Ohlman <borj= e.ohlman@ericsson.com>

Hi Yunfei,

If it is possible for you to attend our Sunday meeting it would be gre= at to have a presentation of the current status of ppsp and then have an op= en discussion on how your work relates to what we are planning to do in the= icnrg.

B=F6rje

On 20 okt 2013, at 14:35, yunfei zhang <hishigh@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Borje,

=A0=A0=A0 I may possibly have time to attend the ICNRG meeting and if = I can attend this meeting, I would be glad to introduce the progress of PPS= P and discuss the possbile cooperation.

=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 BR

=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Yunfei

2013/10/18 B=F6rje Ohlman <= borje.ohlman= @ericsson.com>

If someone from ppsp would be interested to come to the ICNRG meeting = on Sunday and present the video streaming work of ppsp this would be most w= elcome, for meeting details and registration please see=A0http://t= rac.tools.ietf.org/group/irtf/trac/wiki/icnrg
(Anyone is of course welcome to attend the meeting even if you are not= willing to make a presentation.)

I think it would be great to have a discussion on how the video stream= ing work in ppsp and icnrg relates to each other and which synergies could = be possible.

B=F6rje

On 17 okt 2013, at 18:13, Jeff Thompson <jeff@thefirst.org>

=A0wrote:

Is anyone from PPSP going to the ICNRG session on Sunday, Nov. 5?=A0 T= hey are also discussing video streaming with hash-based names.
"Adaptive Video Streaming over ICN"
http://users.soe.ucsc.edu/~cedric/papers/= draft-video-streaming-over-ICN-00.txt

This doesn't seem to mention the video streaming with has-based names i= n the PPSPP draft (or vice versa).=A0 What is the cross-pollination between= PPSP and ICNRG?

Thanks,
- Jeff

Hi all,

=A0=A0 The ppsp session is scheduled on 1610-1840=A0at Plaza C o= n Tuesday,November 5, 2013. See you all in Vancouver.

=A0

BR

Yunfei&Ning

_______________________________________________
ppsp mailing list
ppsp@ietf.org
ht= tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp

_______________________________________________
ppsp mailing list
ppsp@ietf.org
ht= tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp

--047d7bfe93fe68e76b04e952f0ea-- From dch@jsonified.com Tue Oct 22 05:44:45 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ppsp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ppsp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E54A811E8164 for ; Tue, 22 Oct 2013 05:44:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iuvbbdDVwNQE for ; Tue, 22 Oct 2013 05:44:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ea0-x229.google.com (mail-ea0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4013:c01::229]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F10E311E8279 for ; Tue, 22 Oct 2013 05:44:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ea0-f169.google.com with SMTP id k11so4257415eaj.0 for ; Tue, 22 Oct 2013 05:44:32 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=jsonified.com; s=google; h=date:from:to:message-id:subject:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; bh=n10S9nKzCZRHX3sYc1Y1IJIlsNxyauqjQ+UYM/77Jn4=; b=fUNSehLUYK1blIYCm1fWonpBwg/j6kT84PWcVCrCv2Sa9xkRgv0qR0k5fpYyshXf3F mF3+Bz2Zsc3CK84X+A3BH3CPC2g1aBuAN5yfI08qHQLiLFis8lWtgqZ/pa9Kt52xGhTp k6JnuLNkNdwPaqMvHDDnWpNzBX/jMAQiL6c9k= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:message-id:subject:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; bh=n10S9nKzCZRHX3sYc1Y1IJIlsNxyauqjQ+UYM/77Jn4=; b=gn2GidKlDxTDjF749Gytys5vYOcllJFNt8GjhP+TpsHAGJh3ze2rmSHFUAorFOzXwl +ape19qwnjO2TTKIq7Gv8QrQt0Rf+pSh6ksrlvwkhrRo7HtQkUpOJsuDix07ZK1TGpVf G5a3fgYy82ybTlOxL29vhGg9Y3tosShW4KO0HjsctakVQfRNn/rqrww/Of8zF1M2oVgu umu6xuFtOcLmauLxD+WN0ZXzJwFwerIxdXJLYcpGRcE5TvfotPa2IwHxeKRgNWIjSagi kXnd5/lKQdqrTVsfe3j2YeVGDlkQaHQtjg5vcYmFovmu2KRL+kmBCnU8i2q5bqElccnc mT6g== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlHa+6pmW/T8soF6lY9SApgTVaTT0wr/igoBoLCMHVUw3y3TYxxoPiGViOsjw5ykNkZG1qK X-Received: by 10.14.184.132 with SMTP id s4mr28963033eem.13.1382445872168; Tue, 22 Oct 2013 05:44:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from akai.jsonified.com (212-17-107-66.static.inode.at. [212.17.107.66]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id x47sm56391975eea.16.2013.10.22.05.44.31 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 22 Oct 2013 05:44:31 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2013 14:44:30 +0200 From: Dave Cottlehuber To: ppsp Message-ID: X-Mailer: Airmail Beta (210) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Subject: [ppsp] philosophy of peer-to-peer X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2013 12:44:46 -0000 Hi folks, At the end of the IET=4687, I mentioned that there seemed to be a philoso= phical difference in how various people saw Peer-to-peer protocols workin= g, and that this was reflected in the positions taken during some of our = discussions.=C2=A0Part of our implicit expectations around how P2P should= work is the use cases we see for it, to which I will contribute my ideas= in a separate thread. I hope we can collect our thoughts on this prior to IET=4688 and have ver= y productive discussions as a result; being aware of our bias and perspec= tive should be a useful counterpoint. TL;DR I see P2P, and by extension PPSP, as a means to provide similar lev= els of reliability to traditional TCP or HTTP-like stream protocols, over= a distributed network datastore, at significantly lower cost. And to ach= ieve that successfully, P2P makes a set of trade-offs, sacrificing direct= control of endpoints and packets, for emergent (statistical) properties = of the overlaid P2P network, that from a statistical perspective, turn ou= t to be sufficient in practise, despite a reduced number of super-peers. Hopefully the rest makes my position more clear: WRT to P2P in the wider picture, I think of 3 main =22user stories=22: - the network provider, interested in shifting data out to the edge of th= e network, for cost & efficiency reasons, rather than through the core, a= nd ultimately in Billing everybody - the user thinking of reliability, & privacy - bit torrent based sharing= , without a central network or node, encrypted in transit, and unobservab= le wrt to content and user base, or dropbox, with extreme convenience and= negligable security or privacy. - the content provider, interested in getting a message or file out, poss= ibly in real time, only to those who are authorised to consume it, possib= ly who paid for it Note that there is not a fundamental trade-off between these three -- for= example, a person sharing a video of a riot in real time that is subsequ= ently going live from a neutral TV station (contrasting with the alleged = calm view provided by the State media) represents a content provider who = is extremely interested in ensuring that both privacy and the right to co= nsumption are appropriately secured and private. Authorisation from the c= ontent provider does not of and in itself dictate a monopoly telco model.= End users may also be interested in having P2P algorithms stretch into t= heir homes so that content they are accessing is fast, and can easily swi= tch between devices locally. WRT to expectations from a P2P solution, as a developer I am thinking: P2P for me, by definition, is a trade-off between control & efficiency, a= nd takes advantage of the ever improving reliability in modern networks t= hat means less & less data is lost at lower levels, and less is damaged i= n transit. It hopefully follows that: Control: I am not interested in tracking per-peer state, such as what blo= cks are available, and what data volume has been sent, within the tracker= protocol itself, due to the added complexity & size of a database that n= eeds to live primarily in RAM for speed but large enough to require distr= ibuted nodes. In fact ideally I'd prefer not to need a separate protocol = at all (I believe this discussion has already taken place previously BTW)= . If I am reaching 1 million consumers (a decent sporting event in Europe= or elsewhere) I don't want to try to synchronise and maintain received m= essage state for 1000s of messages within the tracker for each peer, at t= he cost of Gigabytes of transactional RAM, that additionally will require= flushing to disk for later analysis. This memory & activity represents a= significant waste of bandwidth between peer->tracker (which negates the = point of P2P in the first place), and also represents non-negligable over= head. This type of information is not required for operating the P2P netw= ork itself, and the potential size of a database that maps blocks to peer= s, and tracks peers to blocks, is non trivial in practice. Quality:=C2=A0some loss of packets is expected, and I'm not concerned abo= ut that - with some buffering, and a set of good peers, this will rarely = impact the user significantly. =46rom a QoS perspective, if I want to ens= ure 100% transmission of packets to an endpoint, I might as well use stre= aming HTTP, websockets etc rather than put a lot of that tracking/managem= ent functionality into the tracker. The entire point of P2P is to replace= reliable point-to-point topologies with an unreliable but significantly = more redundant peer overlay. The expectation is that due to cooperative s= haring of data messages, the overall reliability from a statistical PoV f= or and end user does not change noticeably for the user/consumer. No apologies for the length; how does this read to the rest of you=3F Doe= s this match your views, or do you see things differently=3F --=C2=A0 Dave Cottlehuber Sent with Airmail From zongning@huawei.com Wed Oct 23 17:20:12 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ppsp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ppsp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3AFDD11E8264 for ; Wed, 23 Oct 2013 17:20:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -107.498 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-107.498 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.100, BAYES_00=-2.599, GB_I_INVITATION=-2, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yIgwmSb5Xqyz for ; Wed, 23 Oct 2013 17:20:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03C0711E8295 for ; Wed, 23 Oct 2013 17:20:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml203-edg.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id AXD11253; Thu, 24 Oct 2013 00:20:05 +0000 (GMT) Received: from LHREML406-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.243) by lhreml203-edg.huawei.com (172.18.7.221) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Thu, 24 Oct 2013 01:20:00 +0100 Received: from nkgeml405-hub.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.36) by lhreml406-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.243) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Thu, 24 Oct 2013 01:20:03 +0100 Received: from NKGEML501-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.2.141]) by nkgeml405-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.36]) with mapi id 14.03.0146.000; Thu, 24 Oct 2013 08:19:56 +0800 From: Zongning To: "ppsp@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Meeting invitation: PPSP Thread-Index: AQHO0AFRjWcgEMfzvk2f3CiscpZY15oC/Rmg Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2013 00:19:56 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US, zh-CN Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.138.41.48] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_B0D29E0424F2DE47A0B36779EC66677925807ABBnkgeml501mbschi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Subject: [ppsp] FW: Meeting invitation: PPSP X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2013 00:20:12 -0000 --_000_B0D29E0424F2DE47A0B36779EC66677925807ABBnkgeml501mbschi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGksDQoNClBsZWFzZSBzZWUgdGhlIGJlbG93IFdlYmV4IGluZm9ybWF0aW9uIGlmIHlvdSBwbGFu IHRvIGpvaW4gUFBTUCBzZXNzaW9uIHJlbW90ZWx5Lg0KVGhhbmtzLg0KDQotWXVuZmVpICYgTmlu Zw0KDQpUb3BpYzogUFBTUA0KRGF0ZTogVHVlc2RheSwgTm92ZW1iZXIgNSwgMjAxMw0KVGltZTog 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amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.004 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.004 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.500, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_NL=0.55, HOST_EQ_NL=1.545, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Mq3huXU7OJdN for ; Wed, 30 Oct 2013 08:22:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailin.vu.nl (mailin.vu.nl [130.37.164.19]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 255EC11E825C for ; Wed, 30 Oct 2013 08:22:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from PEXHB012B.vu.local (130.37.236.67) by mailin.vu.nl (130.37.164.19) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.298.4; Wed, 30 Oct 2013 16:22:39 +0100 Received: from [192.168.0.100] (130.37.253.20) by mails.vu.nl (130.37.236.67) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.298.4; Wed, 30 Oct 2013 16:22:40 +0100 Message-ID: <5271244D.1040606@cs.vu.nl> Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2013 16:22:53 +0100 From: Arno Bakker User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:17.0) Gecko/17.0 Thunderbird/17.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: References: <051501ceccad$b4247620$1c6d6260$@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <051501ceccad$b4247620$1c6d6260$@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-IP: [130.37.253.20] Subject: Re: [ppsp] Quaetions on tracker and peer protocols X-BeenThere: ppsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: arno@cs.vu.nl List-Id: discussing to draw up peer to peer streaming protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2013 15:22:51 -0000 Hi Roni and all thanks for your interesting questions, and sorry for my slow reply. Please see inline for the peer protocol related parts. On 19/10/2013 11:29, Roni Even wrote: > > 3. It is also not clear what types of transport are allowed and > supported, the only one mentioned is UDP with LEDBAT for congestion control. > There is some mention of DTLS in the security section but I think that > currently the IESG will require some mandatory secure transport or an > explanation why one is not specified. Maybe propose DTLS over UDP/ICE for > transport. > At present only UDP with LEDBAT congestion control is allowed. Future extensions may define the peer protocol over other transports. The peer protocol itself is secure in the sense that integrity of the chunks cannot be interfered with, it cannot be used for amplifications attacks and malicious peers cannot completely halt its operation, as described in the Security Considerations. Did you find holes in these protection mechanisms that require DTLS by default in addition? We only have DTLS or IPsec when a deployer wants point-to-point confidentiality. > 5. In the peer protocol the HANDSHAKE message does not discuss NAT > traversal using ICE to supply more candidates. Is the PEX_REQ and PEX_RES > messages duplicating ICE? > Question is whether the candidate signaling of ICE is done purely via the tracker protocol, or also via the peer protocol? I did notice that we should add a paragraph to the peer protocol to ensure STUN packets are not mistaken for PPSPP datagrams. Reserving message type 0x21 such that the magic cookie can be recognized should be enough (see [RFC5389, p. 11]. > 6. About using PEX_RES message for introducing peers; if peer B and C > are in one address domain and A and D are in other than it may happen that > peer C and D will have the same IP address, so when B sends to A in the > PEX_RES the address of C then A may send PEX_RES to D? > PEX_REQ and PEX_RES are now (draft-08) used solely for address gossiping, and not for NAT hole punching anymore. > 7. In the peer protocol what is the data format the example in section > 8.6 have the DATA as ASCII encoded. We have replaced this formalism with the normal IETF bits-on-the-wire specification that is hopefully less ambiguous. Regards, Arno