
From nobody Sun Nov  1 10:45:21 2015
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Subject: Re: [RTG-DIR] RtgDir review: draft-ietf-idr-ix-bgp-route-server-08.txt
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Geoff, ADs,

thanks for your review.

>From a technical correctness point of view, the text in section 2.3 is
indeed "speculative".  It's not possible within the scope of this document
to change rfc6774 to be standards track or to get the add-paths draft to
rfc stage.  You're also correct that there is no formal description about
how to handle multiple loc-ribs, even though there are several of
production implementations which do this.

Having said that, the authors would feel uncomfortable about writing a
document about how to approach an RS implementation without flagging path
hiding and its potential workarounds.  Production IXPs tend to view this as
being an important part of RS implementations.

We've taken your comments on board and have explicitly noted that section
2.3 and all its subsections are informational only.  The rfc2119 language
in this section has also been toned down to remove any implication that the
section could be interpreted as normative.

Separate to this, the wording has been changed for the minor issue.

Draft -09 has now been published; hopefully this will address the concerns
you raised.

Nick

On 08/09/2015 00:59, Geoff Huston wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I have been selected as the Routing Directorate reviewer for this draft. The Routing Directorate seeks to review all routing or routing-related drafts as they pass through IETF last call and IESG review, and sometimes on special request. The purpose of the review is to provide assistance to the Routing ADs. For more information about the Routing Directorate, please see ​http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/rtg/trac/wiki/RtgDir
> 
> Although these comments are primarily for the use of the Routing ADs, it would be helpful if you could consider them along with any other IETF Last Call comments that you receive, and strive to resolve them through discussion or by updating the draft.
> 
> Document: draft-ietf-idr-ix-bgp-route-server-08.txt
> Reviewer: Geoff Huston
> Review Date: 8 September 2015
> IETF LC End Date: 
> Intended Status: Standards Track
> 
> 
> Summary: 
> 
>   I have significant concerns about this document and recommend that the 
>   Routing ADs discuss these issues further with the authors.
> 
> Comments:
> 
>   The document is clear, and easily read. 
>   
>   Sections 2.1 and 2.2 are consistent with a Standards Track specification
>   document
>   
>   Section 2.3 appears to be more speculative in nature and the text is
>   consistent with an informational document, but not necessarily consistent
>   with a Standards Track specification.
>   
> Major Issues:
> 
>   2.3.  Per-Client Policy Control in Multilateral Interconnection
> 
>   I am having a lot of difficulty understanding the role of this section in
>   a standards track document. The section describes a problem of a route
>   server exercising unilateral route policy selection, and thereby
>   occluding potential routes from the route server's clients.
>   
>   The document then describes three potential approaches for addressing
>   this issue:
>   
>   2.3.2.1 Multiple Route Server RIBS
>   
>   Is there a reference for this approach? If not, then is this text intended
>   to be the reference specification for multi-RIBs? 
>   
>   I'm not entirely comfortable with this section as part of a Standards
>   Track specification given the lack of a clear specification of this
>   routing behaviour. The informal two paragraph description of the intended
>   behaviour seems to me to be inconsistent with a standards track
>   specification.
>   
>   2.3.2.2.1.  Diverse BGP Path Approach
>   
>   This references RFC6774, an Informational document.
>   
>   Given that the document subsequently states that "A route server SHOULD
>   implement one of the methods described in Section 2.3.2 to allow
>   per-client routing policy control without "path hiding"." then I am very
>   surprised to see RFC6774 listed as Informative rather than Normative. It
>   should be Normative. But then as its Informational, this becomes a
>   downref in this document which the authors need to address.
>   
>   2.3.2.2.2.  BGP ADD-PATH Approach
>   
>   This references [I-D.ietf-idr-add-paths].
>   
>   Same comment as above.
> 
>   
>   The Standards track document is saying that a Route Server SHOULD implement
>   one of three approaches where one is unreferenced, one is informataional and
>   one is still a draft.
>   
>   I think this is a major impediment to the document's progress as a Standards
>   Track document.
> 
> 
> Minor Issues:
> 
>   1. Introduction, Second Paragraph:
> 
>   The unilateral assertion about scaling is perhaps over-doing it. The text
>   should add a qualifier such as "in large exchanges" or "in some
>   circumstances" so that the sentence is not interpreted as a universal
>   condition, but one that arises as the number of peer sessions increases
>   at an exchange
>   
> 
> 
> 
> 
>   
>   
>   
> 
> 
> 


-- 
Network Ability Ltd. | Chief Technical Officer | Tel: +353 1 5313339
52 Lower Sandwith St | INEX - Internet Neutral |
Dublin 2, Ireland    | Exchange Association    | Email: nick@inex.ie


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To: Ronald Bonica <rbonica@juniper.net>, "rtg-dir@ietf.org" <rtg-dir@ietf.org>, "rtg-ads@ietf.org" <rtg-ads@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-bess-virtual-subnet.all@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-bess-virtual-subnet.all@ietf.org>
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From nobody Tue Nov  3 23:07:23 2015
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Subject: [RTG-DIR] Routing Area draft minutes available
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The draft minutes for the RTGAREA meeting at IETF 94 are now available.  Pl=
ease let me know if you have any comments.
https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/94/minutes/minutes-94-rtgarea

Best regards
Jon




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<html xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-micr=
osoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" =
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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The draft minutes for the RTGAREA meeting at IETF 94=
 are now available.&nbsp; Please let me know if you have any comments.<o:p>=
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/94/minut=
es/minutes-94-rtgarea">https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/94/minutes/minutes-=
94-rtgarea</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Best regards<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Jon<o:p></o:p></p>
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From nobody Tue Nov  3 23:10:51 2015
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Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2015 02:10:46 -0500
Message-ID: <CAG4d1reUcb7FSugPiK2yyk6kfnNZgVkguULC7S_rm5cyNfk6xw@mail.gmail.com>
From: Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com>
To: Jonathan Hardwick <Jonathan.Hardwick@metaswitch.com>
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Subject: Re: [RTG-DIR] Routing Area draft minutes available
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Jon,

Thank you for taking minutes.

Alia

On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 2:06 AM, Jonathan Hardwick <
Jonathan.Hardwick@metaswitch.com> wrote:

> The draft minutes for the RTGAREA meeting at IETF 94 are now available.
> Please let me know if you have any comments.
>
> https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/94/minutes/minutes-94-rtgarea
>
>
>
> Best regards
>
> Jon
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Jon,<div><br></div><div>Thank you for taking minutes.</div=
><div><br></div><div>Alia</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div cl=
ass=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 2:06 AM, Jonathan Hardwick <span=
 dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Jonathan.Hardwick@metaswitch.com" target=
=3D"_blank">Jonathan.Hardwick@metaswitch.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><bloc=
kquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #cc=
c solid;padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-GB" link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The draft minutes for the RTGAREA meeting at IETF 94=
 are now available.=C2=A0 Please let me know if you have any comments.<u></=
u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/94/minut=
es/minutes-94-rtgarea" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/9=
4/minutes/minutes-94-rtgarea</a><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Best regards<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Jon<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>

</blockquote></div><br></div>

--001a113ce9d893d91a0523b1b5ff--


From nobody Mon Nov  9 08:43:05 2015
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References: <4A1562797D64E44993C5CBF38CF1BE4812ACA49E@ESESSMB301.ericsson.se>
To: Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>, "rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org" <rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org>
From: Stewart Bryant <stbryant@cisco.com>
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Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2015 17:13:33 +0000
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Subject: Re: [RTG-DIR] [mpls] RtgDir review: draft-ietf-mpls-rfc6374-udp-return-path-04.txt
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Daniele

Thank you for the review, please see inline.

On 09/11/2015 16:42, Daniele Ceccarelli wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> I have been selected as the Routing Directorate reviewer for this 
> draft. The Routing Directorate seeks to review all routing or 
> routing-related drafts as they pass through IETF last call and IESG 
> review, and sometimes on special request. The purpose of the review is 
> to provide assistance to the Routing ADs. For more information about 
> the Routing Directorate, please see​ 
> http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/rtg/trac/wiki/RtgDir
>
> Although these comments are primarily for the use of the Routing ADs, 
> it would be helpful if you could consider them along with any other 
> IETF Last Call comments that you receive, and strive to resolve them 
> through discussion or by updating the draft.
>
> Document: draft-ietf-mpls-rfc6374-udp-return-path-04.txt
> Reviewer: Daniele Ceccarelli
> Review Date: Nov 08 2015
> IETF LC End Date: draft in AD evaluation state
> Intended Status: Standard Track
>
> *Summary:*
> I have some minor concerns about this document that I think should be 
> resolved before publication.
>
> *Comments:*
>
> The draft is pretty simple and straightforward, it is almost ready for 
> publication. I appreciated the “note to reviewers” at the beginning of 
> section 3.1, good idea.
>
> *Major Issues:*
>
> If you find no major issues, please write: "No major issues found.
>
> *Minor Issues:*
>
>   * Abstract: please consider improving readability. Suggestion:
>     “RFC6374 defines a protocol for Packet Loss and Delay Measurement
>     for MPLS networks (MPLS-PLDM). This document specifies the
>     procedures to be used when sending and processing out-of-band MPLS
>     performance management responses over an IP/UDP return path.
>
OK, will take a close look at this text.
>
>  *
>
>
>   * Section 3: My understanding is that if multiple URO are sent but
>     the responder is configured to send a single reply, it replies to
>     the first URO. Is any error message foreseen for this?
>
Actually I wonder if this should be the first URO that it is able to 
respond to.

The case in point would be if it found an IPv4 and an IPv6 USO (in that 
order) but could only sent IPv6.

I was not planning an error response. One can imagine cases (IPv4 and 
IPv6 for example) when there might be both type of URO in every message 
particularly during protocol migration.

>  *
>
>
>   * Why a single URO TLV Type is used for both IPv4 and IPv6? Wouldn’t
>     it be clearer to use two different values?
>
Both method are good protocol design. We tossed a dice and came down in 
favour of conserving Optional TLV types.
>
>  *
>
>
>   * I don’t think the “SHOULD” in section 4.2 (“The receipt of such a
>     mal-formed request SHOULD be notified to the operator through the
>     management system…”)  should be in capital letters, since it’s not
>     defining a rule for the protocol. Same applies to section 4.4.
>
SHOULD is an instruction to the implementer, which I think is valid use 
of RFC2119 language.
>
>  *
>
>
>   * Section 4.3. Why there is this strict requirement? “It MUST NOT be
>     sent other than in response to an MPLS-PLDM query message.” If one
>     day another type of query message is defined why do we want to
>     impose that a MPLS-PM response MUST NOT be sent?
>
This is as defined in RFC6374.

If some other protocol needs a MPLS-PM response it will specify that for 
itself.

>  *
>
>
> *Nits:*
>
>   * Packet Loss and Delay Measurement are sometimes used with capital
>     letters and sometimes not.
>   * “In such systems the response may arrive via any interface in the
>     LSR and need to internally forwarded…” I guess a verb is missing.
>
Yes - thanks.
>
>  *
>
>
>   * Some spelling mistakes are present in the document (e.g. Section
>     3, Section 4.1)
>
I will try me best to get them, but despite my very best endeavors 
spelling has never been one of my major skills. I am sure my friends in  
the RFC Editor office will pick up with any I miss.

Thanks

Stewart
>
>  *
>
> BR
> Daniele
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls


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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Daniele<br>
      <br>
      Thank you for the review, please see inline.<br>
      <br>
      On 09/11/2015 16:42, Daniele Ceccarelli wrote:<br>
    </div>
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      <div class="WordSection1">
        <p style="background:white"><span
            style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">Hello,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p style="background:white;orphans:
          auto;text-align:start;widows: 1;-webkit-text-stroke-width:
          0px;word-spacing:0px">
          <span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">I have been
            selected as the Routing Directorate reviewer for this draft.
            The Routing Directorate seeks to review all routing or
            routing-related drafts as they pass through IETF last call
            and IESG review, and sometimes on special request. The
            purpose of the review is to provide assistance to the
            Routing ADs. For more information about the Routing
            Directorate, please see<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a
              moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/rtg/trac/wiki/RtgDir"><span
                class="icon"><span style="color:#440088">​</span></span><span
                style="color:#440088"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/rtg/trac/wiki/RtgDir">http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/rtg/trac/wiki/RtgDir</a></span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p style="background:white;orphans:
          auto;text-align:start;widows: 1;-webkit-text-stroke-width:
          0px;word-spacing:0px">
          <span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">Although these
            comments are primarily for the use of the Routing ADs, it
            would be helpful if you could consider them along with any
            other IETF Last Call comments that you receive, and strive
            to resolve them through discussion or by updating the draft.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p style="background:white;orphans:
          auto;text-align:start;widows: 1;-webkit-text-stroke-width:
          0px;word-spacing:0px">
          <span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">Document:<span
              class="apple-converted-space"> draft-ietf-mpls-rfc6374-udp-return-path-04</span>.txt<span
              class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
            Reviewer: Daniele Ceccarelli<br>
            Review Date: Nov 08 2015<br>
            IETF LC End Date: draft in AD evaluation state<span
              class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
            Intended Status: Standard Track<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p style="background:white;orphans:
          auto;text-align:start;widows: 1;-webkit-text-stroke-width:
          0px;word-spacing:0px">
          <strong><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Summary:</span></strong><span
            class="apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span></span><span
            style="font-size:11.0pt;color:red"><br>
          </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt">I have some minor
            concerns about this document that I think should be resolved
            before publication.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p style="background:white"><b>Comments:<o:p></o:p></b></p>
        <p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">The
            draft is pretty simple and straightforward, it is almost
            ready for publication. I appreciated the “note to reviewers”
            at the beginning of section 3.1, good idea.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p style="background:white"><b>Major Issues:<o:p></o:p></b></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white">If
          you find no major issues, please write: "No major issues
          found.<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p style="background:white;orphans:
          auto;text-align:start;widows: 1;-webkit-text-stroke-width:
          0px;word-spacing:0px">
          <b>Minor Issues:<o:p></o:p></b></p>
        <ul type="disc">
          <li class="MsoNormal"
            style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2
            level1 lfo7;background:white">
            Abstract: please consider improving readability. Suggestion:
            “RFC6374 defines a protocol for Packet Loss and Delay
            Measurement for MPLS networks (MPLS-PLDM). This document
            specifies the procedures to be used when sending and
            processing out-of-band MPLS performance management responses
            over an IP/UDP return path.</li>
        </ul>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    OK, will take a close look at this text.<br>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:4A1562797D64E44993C5CBF38CF1BE4812ACA49E@ESESSMB301.ericsson.se"
      type="cite">
      <div class="WordSection1">
        <ul type="disc">
          <li class="MsoNormal"
            style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2
            level1 lfo7;background:white"><o:p></o:p><br>
          </li>
          <li class="MsoNormal"
            style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2
            level1 lfo7;background:white">
            Section 3: My understanding is that if multiple URO are sent
            but the responder is configured to send a single reply, it
            replies to the first URO. Is any error message foreseen for
            this?</li>
        </ul>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    Actually I wonder if this should be the first URO that it is able to
    respond to.<br>
    <br>
    The case in point would be if it found an IPv4 and an IPv6 USO (in
    that order) but could only sent IPv6.<br>
    <br>
    I was not planning an error response. One can imagine cases (IPv4
    and IPv6 for example) when there might be both type of URO in every
    message particularly during protocol migration.<br>
    <br>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:4A1562797D64E44993C5CBF38CF1BE4812ACA49E@ESESSMB301.ericsson.se"
      type="cite">
      <div class="WordSection1">
        <ul type="disc">
          <li class="MsoNormal"
            style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2
            level1 lfo7;background:white"><o:p></o:p><br>
          </li>
          <li class="MsoNormal"
            style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2
            level1 lfo7;background:white">
            Why a single URO TLV Type is used for both IPv4 and IPv6?
            Wouldn’t it be clearer to use two different values?</li>
        </ul>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    Both method are good protocol design. We tossed a dice and came down
    in favour of conserving Optional TLV types.<br>
    <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
    <blockquote
cite="mid:4A1562797D64E44993C5CBF38CF1BE4812ACA49E@ESESSMB301.ericsson.se"
      type="cite">
      <div class="WordSection1">
        <ul type="disc">
          <li class="MsoNormal"
            style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2
            level1 lfo7;background:white"><o:p></o:p><br>
          </li>
          <li class="MsoNormal"
            style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2
            level1 lfo7;background:white">
            I don’t think the “SHOULD” in section 4.2 (“The receipt of
            such a mal-formed request SHOULD be notified to the operator
            through the management system…”)  should be in capital
            letters, since it’s not defining a rule for the protocol.
            Same applies to section 4.4.<br>
          </li>
        </ul>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    SHOULD is an instruction to the implementer, which I think is valid
    use of RFC2119 language.<br>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:4A1562797D64E44993C5CBF38CF1BE4812ACA49E@ESESSMB301.ericsson.se"
      type="cite">
      <div class="WordSection1">
        <ul type="disc">
          <li class="MsoNormal"
            style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2
            level1 lfo7;background:white"><o:p></o:p><br>
          </li>
          <li class="MsoNormal"
            style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2
            level1 lfo7;background:white">
            Section 4.3. Why there is this strict requirement? “It MUST
            NOT be sent other than in response to an MPLS-PLDM query
            message.” If one day another type of query message is
            defined why do we want to impose that a MPLS-PM response
            MUST NOT be sent?</li>
        </ul>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    This is as defined in RFC6374.<br>
    <br>
    If some other protocol needs a MPLS-PM response it will specify that
    for itself.<br>
    <br>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:4A1562797D64E44993C5CBF38CF1BE4812ACA49E@ESESSMB301.ericsson.se"
      type="cite">
      <div class="WordSection1">
        <ul type="disc">
          <li class="MsoNormal"
            style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2
            level1 lfo7;background:white"><o:p></o:p><br>
          </li>
        </ul>
        <p style="background:white"><strong><span
              style="font-size:11.0pt">Nits:</span></strong><span
            style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <ul type="disc">
          <li class="MsoNormal"
            style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0
            level1 lfo8;background:white">
            Packet Loss and Delay Measurement are sometimes used with
            capital letters and sometimes not.<o:p></o:p></li>
          <li class="MsoNormal"
            style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0
            level1 lfo8;background:white">
            “In such systems the response may arrive via any interface
            in the LSR and need to internally forwarded…” I guess a verb
            is missing.</li>
        </ul>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    Yes - thanks.<br>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:4A1562797D64E44993C5CBF38CF1BE4812ACA49E@ESESSMB301.ericsson.se"
      type="cite">
      <div class="WordSection1">
        <ul type="disc">
          <li class="MsoNormal"
            style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0
            level1 lfo8;background:white"><o:p></o:p><br>
          </li>
          <li class="MsoNormal"
            style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0
            level1 lfo8;background:white">
            Some spelling mistakes are present in the document (e.g.
            Section 3, Section 4.1)</li>
        </ul>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    I will try me best to get them, but despite my very best endeavors
    spelling has never been one of my major skills. I am sure my friends
    in  the RFC Editor office will pick up with any I miss.<br>
    <br>
    Thanks<br>
    <br>
    Stewart<br>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:4A1562797D64E44993C5CBF38CF1BE4812ACA49E@ESESSMB301.ericsson.se"
      type="cite">
      <div class="WordSection1">
        <ul type="disc">
          <li class="MsoNormal"
            style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0
            level1 lfo8;background:white"><o:p></o:p></li>
        </ul>
        <p class="MsoNormal">BR<br>
          Daniele<o:p></o:p></p>
      </div>
      <br>
      <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
      <br>
      <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
mpls mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls</a>
</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    <br>
    <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- 
For corporate legal information go to:

<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html">http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html</a>

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>> =E2=80=A2 Section 3: My understanding is that if multiple URO are =
sent but the responder is
>>   configured to send a single reply, it replies to the first URO. Is =
any error message
>>   foreseen for this?
>
> Actually I wonder if this should be the first URO that it is able to =
respond to.

Yes, I like this formulation which I interpret to mean: process them in =
order and use the first one in the list that it is able to use.

"Able" is perhaps suspect and subject to policy, but presumably the =
sender is happy for any URO in the list to be used, and all we are doing =
is expressing an ordered preference.
=20
Adrian


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To: Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>, "rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org" <rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org>
From: Stewart Bryant <stbryant@cisco.com>
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Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2015 13:54:35 +0000
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Subject: Re: [RTG-DIR] [mpls] RtgDir review: draft-ietf-mpls-rfc6374-udp-return-path-04.txt
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On 10/11/2015 13:36, Daniele Ceccarelli wrote:
>
> Hi Stewart,
>
> Please find more comments in line.
>
> BR
> Daniele
>
> *From:*Stewart Bryant [mailto:stbryant@cisco.com]
> *Sent:* lunedì 9 novembre 2015 18:14
> *To:* Daniele Ceccarelli; rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org
> *Cc:* rtg-dir@ietf.org; 
> draft-ietf-mpls-rfc6374-udp-return-path.all@tools.ietf.org; mpls@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [mpls] RtgDir review: 
> draft-ietf-mpls-rfc6374-udp-return-path-04.txt
>
> Daniele
>
> Thank you for the review, please see inline.
>
> On 09/11/2015 16:42, Daniele Ceccarelli wrote:
>
>     Hello,
>
>     I have been selected as the Routing Directorate reviewer for this
>     draft. The Routing Directorate seeks to review all routing or
>     routing-related drafts as they pass through IETF last call and
>     IESG review, and sometimes on special request. The purpose of the
>     review is to provide assistance to the Routing ADs. For more
>     information about the Routing Directorate, please see​
>     <http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/rtg/trac/wiki/RtgDir>http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/rtg/trac/wiki/RtgDir
>
>     Although these comments are primarily for the use of the Routing
>     ADs, it would be helpful if you could consider them along with any
>     other IETF Last Call comments that you receive, and strive to
>     resolve them through discussion or by updating the draft.
>
>     Document: draft-ietf-mpls-rfc6374-udp-return-path-04.txt
>     Reviewer: Daniele Ceccarelli
>     Review Date: Nov 08 2015
>     IETF LC End Date: draft in AD evaluation state
>     Intended Status: Standard Track
>
>     *Summary:*
>     I have some minor concerns about this document that I think should
>     be resolved before publication.
>
>     *Comments:*
>
>     The draft is pretty simple and straightforward, it is almost ready
>     for publication. I appreciated the “note to reviewers” at the
>     beginning of section 3.1, good idea.
>
>     *Major Issues:*
>
>     If you find no major issues, please write: "No major issues found.
>
>     *Minor Issues:*
>
>       * Abstract: please consider improving readability. Suggestion:
>         “RFC6374 defines a protocol for Packet Loss and Delay
>         Measurement for MPLS networks (MPLS-PLDM). This document
>         specifies the procedures to be used when sending and
>         processing out-of-band MPLS performance management responses
>         over an IP/UDP return path.
>
> OK, will take a close look at this text.
>
>  *
>   * Section 3: My understanding is that if multiple URO are sent but
>     the responder is configured to send a single reply, it replies to
>     the first URO. Is any error message foreseen for this?
>
> Actually I wonder if this should be the first URO that it is able to 
> respond to.
>
> The case in point would be if it found an IPv4 and an IPv6 USO (in 
> that order) but could only sent IPv6.
>
> I was not planning an error response. One can imagine cases (IPv4 and 
> IPv6 for example) when there might be both type of URO in every 
> message particularly during protocol migration.
>
> [DC] Good point. I was not considering just the case of IPv4 vs IPv6 
> UROs (where “able” makes sense) but also cases where multiple IPv4 or 
> IPv6 could be present. If the sender asks for a reply both using IPv4 
> and IPv6 I pretty much expect that it’s fine to receive one of them, 
> but in case of multiple IPv4 or IPv6 requests I would expect to see an 
> error for the ones I don’t receive a reply to. But if the WG didn’t 
> feel the need for that I’m fine.
>
> For the IPv4 vs IPv6 case I suggest to explicitly use Adrian’s 
> interpretation in the text: “process them in order and use the first 
> one in the list that it is able to use.”
>
>  *
>   * Why a single URO TLV Type is used for both IPv4 and IPv6? Wouldn’t
>     it be clearer to use two different values?
>
> Both method are good protocol design. We tossed a dice and came down 
> in favour of conserving Optional TLV types.
>
> [DC] I’ve seen quite rarely the usage of the same Type value for 
> different meanings. If it was just a dice tossing and it has no impact 
> on existing implementations I’d suggesting using different values, 
> otherwise it’s ok to keep it as it is
>
The meanings is exactly same, the object  carries the response address 
detail.

Within the parameters there are two address types supported and one 
parameter tells you which type of address is carried.

This is conceptually no different to sub-TLVs which are a well known 
hierarchical structure.

I can change it if that is the wish of the WG, but I cannot see why the 
change is needed since there is no ambiguity.

>
>
>  *
>   * I don’t think the “SHOULD” in section 4.2 (“The receipt of such a
>     mal-formed request SHOULD be notified to the operator through the
>     management system…”)  should be in capital letters, since it’s not
>     defining a rule for the protocol. Same applies to section 4.4.
>
> SHOULD is an instruction to the implementer, which I think is valid 
> use of RFC2119 language.
>
>  *
>   * Section 4.3. Why there is this strict requirement? “It MUST NOT be
>     sent other than in response to an MPLS-PLDM query message.” If one
>     day another type of query message is defined why do we want to
>     impose that a MPLS-PM response MUST NOT be sent?
>
> This is as defined in RFC6374.
>
> If some other protocol needs a MPLS-PM response it will specify that 
> for itself.
> [DC] if it’s defined in RFC6374 there is no need to repeat it here 
> IMO. My comments applies in any case to RFC6374…but it’s too late.
>
It seems to me that the emphasis is not harmful.

It was applied to RFC6374 so that the sender did not receive unsolicited 
response messages, which is a reasonable protocol construct. If another 
protocol wants to use the RFC6374 TLVs it can modify their semantics, 
although it would be better to define its own TLV set.

- Stewart

>
>  *
>
> *Nits:*
>
>   * Packet Loss and Delay Measurement are sometimes used with capital
>     letters and sometimes not.
>   * “In such systems the response may arrive via any interface in the
>     LSR and need to internally forwarded…” I guess a verb is missing.
>
> Yes - thanks.
>
>  *
>   * Some spelling mistakes are present in the document (e.g. Section
>     3, Section 4.1)
>
> I will try me best to get them, but despite my very best endeavors 
> spelling has never been one of my major skills. I am sure my friends 
> in  the RFC Editor office will pick up with any I miss.
>
> Thanks
>
> Stewart
>
>  *
>
> BR
> Daniele
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>
>
>
>
> -- 
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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/11/2015 13:36, Daniele Ceccarelli
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      <div class="WordSection1">
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Hi Stewart,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Please find
            more comments in line.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">BR<br>
            Daniele<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <div style="border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm
          0cm 0cm 4.0pt">
          <div>
            <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
              1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
              <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:windowtext">
                  Stewart Bryant [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:stbryant@cisco.com">mailto:stbryant@cisco.com</a>]
                  <br>
                  <b>Sent:</b> lunedì 9 novembre 2015 18:14<br>
                  <b>To:</b> Daniele Ceccarelli; <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org">rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org</a><br>
                  <b>Cc:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:rtg-dir@ietf.org">rtg-dir@ietf.org</a>;
                  <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:draft-ietf-mpls-rfc6374-udp-return-path.all@tools.ietf.org">draft-ietf-mpls-rfc6374-udp-return-path.all@tools.ietf.org</a>;
                  <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a><br>
                  <b>Subject:</b> Re: [mpls] RtgDir review:
                  draft-ietf-mpls-rfc6374-udp-return-path-04.txt<o:p></o:p></span></p>
            </div>
          </div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal">Daniele<br>
              <br>
              Thank you for the review, please see inline.<br>
              <br>
              On 09/11/2015 16:42, Daniele Ceccarelli wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
            <p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Hello,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
            <p style="background:white;orphans:
              auto;text-align:start;widows: 1;-webkit-text-stroke-width:
              0px;word-spacing:0px">
              <span style="font-size:11.0pt">I have been selected as the
                Routing Directorate reviewer for this draft. The Routing
                Directorate seeks to review all routing or
                routing-related drafts as they pass through IETF last
                call and IESG review, and sometimes on special request.
                The purpose of the review is to provide assistance to
                the Routing ADs. For more information about the Routing
                Directorate, please see<span
                  class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a
                  moz-do-not-send="true"
                  href="http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/rtg/trac/wiki/RtgDir"><span
                    class="icon"><span style="color:#440088">​</span></span></a></span><span
                style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#440088"><a
                  moz-do-not-send="true"
                  href="http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/rtg/trac/wiki/RtgDir"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/rtg/trac/wiki/RtgDir">http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/rtg/trac/wiki/RtgDir</a></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
            <p style="background:white;orphans:
              auto;text-align:start;widows: 1;-webkit-text-stroke-width:
              0px;word-spacing:0px">
              <span style="font-size:11.0pt">Although these comments are
                primarily for the use of the Routing ADs, it would be
                helpful if you could consider them along with any other
                IETF Last Call comments that you receive, and strive to
                resolve them through discussion or by updating the
                draft.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
            <p style="background:white;orphans:
              auto;text-align:start;widows: 1;-webkit-text-stroke-width:
              0px;word-spacing:0px">
              <span style="font-size:11.0pt">Document:<span
                  class="apple-converted-space"> draft-ietf-mpls-rfc6374-udp-return-path-04</span>.txt<span
                  class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
                Reviewer: Daniele Ceccarelli<br>
                Review Date: Nov 08 2015<br>
                IETF LC End Date: draft in AD evaluation state<span
                  class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
                Intended Status: Standard Track</span><o:p></o:p></p>
            <p style="background:white;orphans:
              auto;text-align:start;widows: 1;-webkit-text-stroke-width:
              0px;word-spacing:0px">
              <strong><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Summary:</span></strong><span
                class="apple-converted-space"><span
                  style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span></span><span
                style="font-size:11.0pt;color:red"><br>
              </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt">I have some minor
                concerns about this document that I think should be
                resolved before publication.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
            <p style="background:white"><b>Comments:</b><o:p></o:p></p>
            <p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">The
                draft is pretty simple and straightforward, it is almost
                ready for publication. I appreciated the “note to
                reviewers” at the beginning of section 3.1, good idea.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
            <p style="background:white"><b>Major Issues:</b><o:p></o:p></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white">If
              you find no major issues, please write: "No major issues
              found.<o:p></o:p></p>
            <p style="background:white;orphans:
              auto;text-align:start;widows: 1;-webkit-text-stroke-width:
              0px;word-spacing:0px">
              <b>Minor Issues:</b><o:p></o:p></p>
            <ul type="disc">
              <li class="MsoNormal"
                style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1
                level1 lfo1;background:white">
                Abstract: please consider improving readability.
                Suggestion: “RFC6374 defines a protocol for Packet Loss
                and Delay Measurement for MPLS networks (MPLS-PLDM).
                This document specifies the procedures to be used when
                sending and processing out-of-band MPLS performance
                management responses over an IP/UDP return path.<o:p></o:p></li>
            </ul>
          </blockquote>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
              Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">OK, will take a close look
              at this text.<br>
              <br>
              <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <ul type="disc">
            <li class="MsoNormal"
              style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1
              level1 lfo1;background:white">
              <o:p> </o:p></li>
            <li class="MsoNormal"
              style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1
              level1 lfo1;background:white">
              Section 3: My understanding is that if multiple URO are
              sent but the responder is configured to send a single
              reply, it replies to the first URO. Is any error message
              foreseen for this?<o:p></o:p></li>
          </ul>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
              Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">Actually I wonder if this
              should be the first URO that it is able to respond to.<br>
              <br>
              The case in point would be if it found an IPv4 and an IPv6
              USO (in that order) but could only sent IPv6.<br>
              <br>
              I was not planning an error response. One can imagine
              cases (IPv4 and IPv6 for example) when there might be both
              type of URO in every message particularly during protocol
              migration.<br>
              <br>
            </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times
              New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">[DC] Good
              point. I was not considering just the case of IPv4 vs IPv6
              UROs (where “able” makes sense) but also cases where
              multiple IPv4 or IPv6 could be present. If the sender asks
              for a reply both using IPv4 and IPv6 I pretty much expect
              that it’s fine to receive one of them, but in case of
              multiple IPv4 or IPv6 requests I would expect to see an
              error for the ones I don’t receive a reply to. But if the
              WG didn’t feel the need for that I’m fine.</span><span
              style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
              Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">For the IPv4
              vs IPv6 case I suggest to explicitly use Adrian’s
              interpretation in the text: “</span>process them in order
            and use the first one in the list that it is able to use.”<span
              style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <ul type="disc">
            <li class="MsoNormal"
              style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1
              level1 lfo1;background:white">
              <o:p> </o:p></li>
            <li class="MsoNormal"
              style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1
              level1 lfo1;background:white">
              Why a single URO TLV Type is used for both IPv4 and IPv6?
              Wouldn’t it be clearer to use two different values?<o:p></o:p></li>
          </ul>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
              Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">Both method are good
              protocol design. We tossed a dice and came down in favour
              of conserving Optional TLV types.</span><span
              style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
              Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">[DC] I’ve
              seen quite rarely the usage of the same Type value for
              different meanings. If it was just a dice tossing and it
              has no impact on existing implementations I’d suggesting
              using different values, otherwise it’s ok to keep it as it
              is</span></p>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    The meanings is exactly same, the object  carries the response
    address detail.<br>
    <br>
    Within the parameters there are two address types supported and one
    parameter tells you which type of address is carried. <br>
    <br>
    This is conceptually no different to sub-TLVs which are a well known
    hierarchical structure.<br>
    <br>
    I can change it if that is the wish of the WG, but I cannot see why
    the change is needed since there is no ambiguity.<br>
    <br>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:4A1562797D64E44993C5CBF38CF1BE4812ACB021@ESESSMB301.ericsson.se"
      type="cite">
      <div class="WordSection1">
        <div style="border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm
          0cm 0cm 4.0pt">
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
              Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><br>
              <br>
              <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <ul type="disc">
            <li class="MsoNormal"
              style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1
              level1 lfo1;background:white">
              <o:p> </o:p></li>
            <li class="MsoNormal"
              style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1
              level1 lfo1;background:white">
              I don’t think the “SHOULD” in section 4.2 (“The receipt of
              such a mal-formed request SHOULD be notified to the
              operator through the management system…”)  should be in
              capital letters, since it’s not defining a rule for the
              protocol. Same applies to section 4.4.<o:p></o:p></li>
          </ul>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
              Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">SHOULD is an instruction to
              the implementer, which I think is valid use of RFC2119
              language.<br>
              <br>
              <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <ul type="disc">
            <li class="MsoNormal"
              style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1
              level1 lfo1;background:white">
              <o:p> </o:p></li>
            <li class="MsoNormal"
              style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1
              level1 lfo1;background:white">
              Section 4.3. Why there is this strict requirement? “It
              MUST NOT be sent other than in response to an MPLS-PLDM
              query message.” If one day another type of query message
              is defined why do we want to impose that a MPLS-PM
              response MUST NOT be sent?<o:p></o:p></li>
          </ul>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
              Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">This is as defined in
              RFC6374.<br>
              <br>
              If some other protocol needs a MPLS-PM response it will
              specify that for itself.<br>
            </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times
              New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">[DC] if
              it’s defined in RFC6374 there is no need to repeat it here
              IMO. My comments applies in any case to RFC6374…but it’s
              too late.</span><span
              style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
              Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><br>
            </span></p>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    It seems to me that the emphasis is not harmful.<br>
    <br>
    It was applied to RFC6374 so that the sender did not receive
    unsolicited response messages, which is a reasonable protocol
    construct. If another protocol wants to use the RFC6374 TLVs it can
    modify their semantics, although it would be better to define its
    own TLV set.<br>
    <br>
    - Stewart<br>
    <br>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:4A1562797D64E44993C5CBF38CF1BE4812ACB021@ESESSMB301.ericsson.se"
      type="cite">
      <div class="WordSection1">
        <div style="border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm
          0cm 0cm 4.0pt">
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
              Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">
              <br>
              <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <ul type="disc">
            <li class="MsoNormal"
              style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1
              level1 lfo1;background:white">
              <o:p> </o:p></li>
          </ul>
          <p style="background:white"><strong><span
                style="font-size:11.0pt">Nits:</span></strong><o:p></o:p></p>
          <ul type="disc">
            <li class="MsoNormal"
              style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0
              level1 lfo2;background:white">
              Packet Loss and Delay Measurement are sometimes used with
              capital letters and sometimes not.<o:p></o:p></li>
            <li class="MsoNormal"
              style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0
              level1 lfo2;background:white">
              “In such systems the response may arrive via any interface
              in the LSR and need to internally forwarded…” I guess a
              verb is missing.<o:p></o:p></li>
          </ul>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
              Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">Yes - thanks.<br>
              <br>
              <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <ul type="disc">
            <li class="MsoNormal"
              style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0
              level1 lfo2;background:white">
              <o:p> </o:p></li>
            <li class="MsoNormal"
              style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0
              level1 lfo2;background:white">
              Some spelling mistakes are present in the document (e.g.
              Section 3, Section 4.1)<o:p></o:p></li>
          </ul>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
              Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">I will try me best to get
              them, but despite my very best endeavors spelling has
              never been one of my major skills. I am sure my friends
              in  the RFC Editor office will pick up with any I miss.<br>
              <br>
              Thanks<br>
              <br>
              Stewart<br>
              <br>
              <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <ul type="disc">
            <li class="MsoNormal"
              style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0
              level1 lfo2;background:white">
              <o:p> </o:p></li>
          </ul>
          <p class="MsoNormal">BR<br>
            Daniele<o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
              Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><br>
              <br>
              <br>
              <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
          <pre>mpls mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre>
          <pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
          <pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
              Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><br>
              <br>
              <br>
              <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <pre>-- <o:p></o:p></pre>
          <pre>For corporate legal information go to:<o:p></o:p></pre>
          <pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
          <pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html">http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
          <pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    <br>
    <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- 
For corporate legal information go to:

<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html">http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html</a>

</pre>
  </body>
</html>

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From: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>
To: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>, Maciek Konstantynowicz <maciek@cisco.com>, "Giles Heron (giheron)" <giheron@cisco.com>, "Rainer Schatzmayr" <rainer.schatzmayr@telekom.de>, Wim Henderickx <wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com>
Thread-Topic: [L2tpext] RTG-DIR review: draft-ietf-l2tpext-keyed-ipv6-tunnel-05
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Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2015 16:55:52 +0000
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Cc: "rtg-dir@ietf.org" <rtg-dir@ietf.org>, Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com>, "draft-ietf-l2tpext-keyed-ipv6-tunnel.all@tools.ietf.org" <draft-ietf-l2tpext-keyed-ipv6-tunnel.all@tools.ietf.org>, "rtg-ads@ietf.org" <rtg-ads@ietf.org>, "l2tpext-chairs@ietf.org" <l2tpext-chairs@ietf.org>, "Mark Townsley \(townsley\)" <townsley@cisco.com>, "Stewart Bryant \(stbryant\)" <stbryant@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: [RTG-DIR] [L2tpext] RTG-DIR review:	draft-ietf-l2tpext-keyed-ipv6-tunnel-05
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Authors,

We have now 68 days of silent wait. Can you please answer the =
RTG-Directorate review comments below???

Thanks,

=E2=80=94 Carlos.

> On Oct 15, 2015, at 3:21 PM, Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) =
<cpignata@cisco.com> wrote:
>=20
> Deborah, Authors of draft-ietf-l2tpext-keyed-ipv6-tunnel,
>=20
> Following up on this email =E2=80=94 who has the token on the next =
step?
>=20
> Authors, should you answer Sasha=E2=80=99s review?
>=20
> Thanks,
>=20
> =E2=80=94 Carlos.
>=20
>=20
>> On Sep 18, 2015, at 1:34 PM, Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com =
<mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com> wrote:
>>=20
>> Hello,
>> I have been selected as the Routing Directorate reviewer for this =
draft. The Routing Directorate seeks to review all routing or =
routing-related drafts as they pass through IETF last call and IESG =
review, and sometimes on special request. The purpose of the review is =
to provide assistance to the Routing ADs. For more information about the =
Routing Directorate, please see =
=E2=80=8Bhttp://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/rtg/trac/wiki/RtgDir =
<http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/rtg/trac/wiki/RtgDir>
>> Although these comments are primarily for the use of the Routing ADs, =
it would be helpful if you could consider them along with any other IETF =
Last Call comments that you receive, and strive to resolve them through =
discussion or by updating the draft.
>>=20
>> Document: draft-ietf-l2tpext-keyed-ipv6-tunnel-05txt
>> Reviewer: Alexander (=E2=80=9CSasha=E2=80=9D) Vainshtein
>> Review Date: 18-Sep-15
>> IETF LC End Date: Not Known
>> Intended Status: Proposed Standard
>>=20
>> Caveat:
>> I am not an IPv6 expert and this can be the reason for some of my =
concerns about the draft.
>> My experience with L2TPv3 is also outdated. So I=E2=80=99d like to =
ask the Routing ADs to take my comments with a big grain of salt.
>>=20
>> Summary:
>> I have one significant concern about this document and recommend that =
the Routing ADs discuss these issues further with the authors. I also =
have several minor concerns about the document that I think should be =
resolved before publication, and I have find a couple of nits.
>>=20
>> Comments:
>> As I see it, the draft is built around three key ideas:
>> 1.      IPv6 addresses, due to their unlimited availability, can be =
used to identify attachment circuits (or VSI forwarders)  of L2TPv3 =
sessions (and not just tunnel endpoints as in RFC 3931).
>> 2.      With IPv6 addresses used for identifying L2 circuits or VSI) =
to be connected by L2TPv3 PWs, L2TPv3 Session ID processing in the data =
plane can be bypassed. I can guess that this really simplifies data =
plane handling and that this was the prime driver for the technology the =
draft defines, but this is just a guess.
>> 3.      L2TPv3 sessions identified by IPv6 addresses can be used to =
provide operator-managed services that neither need nor use L2TPv3 =
control plane. The control plane functionality is moved to an external =
management entity that can access both endpoints of the service, sets =
the service up and continuously intervenes in its operation until it =
tears down the service.
>>=20
>> The term =E2=80=9Ckeyed IPv6 tunnel=E2=80=9D refers to an L2TPv3 =
session that bypasses Session ID processing and relies on IPv6 addresses =
of its endpoints. Depending on the nature of emulated Ethernet service, =
these IPv6 addresses are used to identify either L2 attachment circuits =
for P2P services or Virtual Switching Instances (VSI) for MP2MP =
services.
>>=20
>> Since L2TPv3 control plane is by design left out of scope of the =
draft, it mainly deals with the data plane. Additional information about =
the management plane aspects can be found in the YANG Data Model =
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-l2tpext-keyed-v6-tunnel-yang/=
?include_text=3D1> draft.
>>=20
>> The draft is not easy to read and understand (at least to me), mainly =
because pieces of important information are often distributed throughout =
the text. One example illustrating this complaint:
>> =C2=B7         The first sentence in Section 2 states that =E2=80=9CSta=
tic local configuration creates a one-to-one mapping between the  =
access-side L2 attachment circuit and the IP address used in the =
network-side IPv6 encapsulation.  The L2TPv3 Control Plane defined in =
RFC3931 is not used=E2=80=9D. This suggests(at least to me) that the =
management plane is involved just in setting up and tearing down a keyed =
IPv6 tunnel =E2=80=93 similar to how static PWs over MPLS PSN are =
operated.
>>=20
>> =C2=B7         The catch comes with the last sentence of Section 3: =
=E2=80=9CCookie values SHOULD be changed periodically=E2=80=9D thus =
indicating that continuous intervention of the management entity is =
expected for the entire life cycle of the service =E2=80=93 something =
that strongly smells of Lifecycle Service Orchestration (LSO) to me, =
even if the term is never mentioned.
>>=20
>> In the process of preparing this review I have sent my comments to =
the authors, to Carlos (the draft shepherd) and to Mark (who is listed =
as a contributing author). I have received very useful feedback  from =
them that has helped me to understand both the draft and the nature of =
our disagreements.  I would like to thank Giles, Rayner, Carlos and Mark =
for a very useful discussion, even if we did not reach an agreement on =
some of the points yet.
>>=20
>> Major Issue:
>> Specification of encapsulation of Ethernet frames in Section 4 of the =
draft is incomplete and, to some extent, contradictory:
>> 1.      L2TPv3 L2-specific sublayer  defined in RFC 3931 is not =
mentioned anywhere in the text.
>> 2.      As the draft borrows encapsulation of Ethernet frames from =
RFC 4719, one could expect that its usage is OPTIONAL (same as in RFC =
4719)
>> 3.      On the other hand, L2-specific sublayer does not appear in =
the diagram depicting the encapsulation on page 5, so one could easily =
assume that it cannot be used with keyed IPv6 tunnels
>>=20
>> 4.      To add to this confusion, the draft mentions ability to use =
VCCV in a keyed IPv6 tunnel (Section 6, last para), and references RFC =
5085. But this RFC, in Section 6.1 states that =E2=80=9CIn order to =
carry VCCV messages within an L2TPv3 session data packet, the PW MUST be =
established such that an L2-Specific Sublayer (L2SS) that defines the =
V-bit is present=E2=80=9D
>>=20
>> =46rom my POV the authors must clearly and unequivocally specify =
whether L2-specific sublayer can or cannot be used in keyed IPv6 =
tunnels. If they decide that it cannot be used, the references to VCCV =
must be removed from the draft.
>>=20
>> I believe that this gap is acknowledged by the document shepherd and =
by one of the authors.
>>=20
>>                Minor Issues:
>>=20
>> 1.      The draft does not explain the motivation for replacing the =
mechanism defined in RFC 4791 (which, AFAIK, was supposed to work =
equally well over IPv4 and IPv6). I can guess that bypassing processing =
of Session ID  simplifies the data plane processing, but this is just my =
guess. Some text explaining the benefits of keyed IPv6 tunnels in =
comparison with RFC 4719 would be most helpful IMO.
>> 2.      To the best of my understanding, the technology defined in =
the draft heavily depends on availability of an external management =
entity that not only sets up and tears down the service (as is common =
with services that uses statically configured PWs, say, in MPLS-TP), but =
also intervenes in the operation of the service during its entire life =
cycle. However, the authors do not spell out their expectations from =
such an entity, the only exception being the need to periodically change =
the cookie values in a coordinated manner. I do not expect the draft to =
provide a detailed specification of such an entity, but I think that =
both the implementers and operators planning to deploy this technology =
would benefit from some additional information. In particular, the =
following aspects of behavior of the service that uses keyed IPv6 =
tunnels could be of special interest:
>> a.       What happens to a P2P service that uses a keyed IPv6 tunnel =
to connect two Ethernet L2 circuits if failure of one of these circuits =
is detected (e.g., using Ethernet service CFM  between the Down MEP at =
the tunnel endpoint and a matching MEP in the CE as defined in Section =
6, the first bullet on page 8)? Is transmission across the IPv6 PSN at =
the other endpoint expected to be throttled by the management entity?
>> b.      The possibility to use an anycast address for identification =
of a keyed IPv6 tunnel endpoint is mentioned twice in the draft - in =
Section 2, 3rd para and in Section 4, first bullet on page 6. What =
happens if an anycast address assigned to one of the endpoints of a =
keyed IPv6 tunnel moves across the network? Is the management entity =
expected to handle these transitions, say, by de-activating the former =
endpoint associated with an anycast address and activating the new one?
>> c.       Is the management entity expected to emulate the PW =
redundancy mechanisms (defined in RFC 67180 and RFC 6870 for PWs over an =
MPLS PSN and in RFC 5641 for the PWs using L2TPv3? It should be noted =
that, in the case of MPLS PWs, PW redundancy switchover does not require =
involvement of a management entity even for statically configured PWs. =
Instead, static PW status messages (RFC 6478) are used
>> d.      The draft mentions the possibility to use keyed IPv6 tunnels =
to connect VSI participating in an MP2MP Ethernet service (even if the =
term VSI is never used). To me this implies that local FIB in each of =
the VSI connected over keyed IPv6 tunnels would use MAC learning to =
populate its local FIB. In order to speed up convergence of such =
services following various external events, RFC 4672 introduces a =
dedicated mechanism for MAC withdrawal, and the PALS WG currently holds =
a WG item extending this functionality for VPLS services that use static =
PWs. Is the management entity expected to provide similar functionality =
as well? (It should be noted that MAC withdrawal mechanisms have been =
defined as OPTIONAL in RFC 4762, but, AFAIK, they are widely implemented =
and deployed in the field).
>> 3.      The draft mentions (in many places) that it expects =
consistent configuration of the endpoints of a keyed IPv6 tunnel. =
However, the draft (probably following a similar omission in RFC 4719) =
never mentions whether the management entity should prevent setting up a =
keyed IPv6 tunnel between a pair of endpoints with different MTU of L2 =
circuits. (This is a clear-cut requirement in RFC 4448 for Ethernet PWs =
over an MPLS PSN, and a parallel requirement for PWs over L2TPv3 can be =
found in RFC 4667).  A short statement and a reference to RFC 4667 =
(missing in RFC 4719) would suffice IMO,
>> 4.      As mentioned before, the draft de-facto assigns IPv6 =
addresses to access-side L2 circuits that are not IP interfaces (the =
draft uses the term =E2=80=9Cmapping=E2=80=9D, but I do not see any =
difference). The draft RECOMMENDS (in para 2 of Section 2) that =E2=80=9Cl=
ocal IPv6 addresses identifying L2TPv3 tunnels are assigned from  =
dedicated subnets used only for such tunnel endpoints=E2=80=9D. =46rom =
my POV this requirement is vague and the readers could benefit from =
clarification of associated issues. Again, I do not expect a detailed =
specification, but I would like to see the some answers to the following =
na=C3=AFve questions:
>> a.       Is  an IPv6 address identifying an endpoint of a keyed IPv6 =
tunnel that is associated with a L2 circuit expected to remain reachable =
if the L2 circuit to which it is associated fails?
>> b.      Are addresses (or subnets) used for identification of =
endpoints of keyed IPv6 tunnels expected to be exposed beyond the =
boundaries of the management domain controlled by the above-mentioned =
management entity? Could they appear in the public Internet routing =
tables?
>> 5.      The draft says (Section 2, 3rd para) that =E2=80=9CCertain =
deployment scenarios may require using a single IPv6 address (typically =
a globally routable unicast or anycast address assigned to a virtual =
interface) to identify a tunnel endpoint for multiple IPv6 L2TPv3 =
tunnels.  For such cases the tunnel encapsulating device  identifies =
each tunnel by a unique combination of local and remote    IPv6 =
addresses=E2=80=9D. =46rom my POV the readers would benefit from the =
following clarifications:
>> a.       What exactly =E2=80=9Ca globally routable address=E2=80=9D =
means in this context?
>> b.      How, from the point of view of network reachability, are IPv6 =
addresses used in this scenario different from IPv6 addresses used to =
identify L2 circuits in other deployment scenarios?
>> c.       Since the text mentions identification of the tunnel by an =
=E2=80=9Cencapsulation device=E2=80=9D, how is the tunnel identified by =
the decapsulating device? At least from the POV of MAC learning in the =
case of keyed IPv6 tunnels connecting VSI, identification of the tunnel =
by the decapsulating device seems more relevant to me
>> d.      How should the device  know whether a specific keyed IPv6 =
tunnel can be identified by just one IPv6 address or by a =E2=80=9Ca =
unique combination of local and remote    IPv6 addresses=E2=80=9D?
>> 6.      As I have mentioned above, some details pertaining to the =
management functionality associated with keyed IPv6 tunnels are defined =
in another L2TPEXT WG draft, but this draft is not mentioned in the =
draft I am reviewing.  I think that an Informative reference to this =
draft would be very much in place in this one.
>> 7.      I wonder whether an Informative reference to a long =
(13-Jan-1999 according to the Datatracker) expired draft =
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-pppext-l2tphc/> of a =
concluded WG in the last sentence on page 3 has any value for the =
reader. If the ideas of this draft have found their way to some RFC, it =
should be used as a reference instead; otherwise I believe that this =
reference cold be safely removed.
>>=20
>> Some of the issues I have raised could be addressed in a suitable =
Applicability Statement section, but there are clearly other ways to =
handle them.
>>=20
>> Nits:
>> I (or, rather, my spellchecker) has found two typos:
>> =C2=B7         Section 2, para 2: s/endponts/endpoints/
>> =C2=B7         Section 5, para 3 on page 7:  =
s/Fragmention/Fragmentation/
>>=20
>> Regards,
>> Sasha
>>=20
>> Office: +972-39266302
>> Cell:      +972-549266302
>> Email:   Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com =
<mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com>
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> L2tpext mailing list
>> L2tpext@ietf.org <mailto:L2tpext@ietf.org>
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/l2tpext =
<https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/l2tpext>
> _______________________________________________
> L2tpext mailing list
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> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/l2tpext


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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">Authors,<div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">We=
 have now 68 days of silent wait. Can you please answer the =
RTG-Directorate review comments below???</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Thanks,</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">=E2=80=94 Carlos.</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">On Oct 15, 2015, at 3:21 PM, Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:cpignata@cisco.com" =
class=3D"">cpignata@cisco.com</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><meta =
http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html charset=3Dutf-8" =
class=3D""><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: =
space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D"">Deborah, =
Authors of draft-ietf-l2tpext-keyed-ipv6-tunnel,<div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Following up on this email =E2=80=94 =
who has the token on the next step?</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Authors, should you answer Sasha=E2=80=99=
s review?</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Thanks,</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">=E2=80=94 Carlos.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">On Sep =
18, 2015, at 1:34 PM, <a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com" =
class=3D"">Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com</a> wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: WordSection1; font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Hello,<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif; background-color: white;" class=3D""><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" =
class=3D"">I&nbsp;</span></span><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" =
class=3D"">have been selected as the Routing Directorate reviewer for =
this draft. The Routing Directorate seeks to review all routing or =
routing-related drafts as they pass through IETF last call and IESG =
review, and sometimes on special request. The purpose of the review is =
to provide assistance to the Routing ADs. For more information about the =
Routing Directorate, please see<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/rtg/trac/wiki/RtgDir" =
style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=3D""><span =
class=3D"icon"><span style=3D"color: rgb(68, 0, 136);" =
class=3D"">=E2=80=8B</span></span><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt; color: =
rgb(68, 0, 136);" =
class=3D"">http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/rtg/trac/wiki/RtgDir</span></a>=
<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
background-color: white; orphans: auto; text-align: start; widows: 1; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-spacing: 0px;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D"">Although these comments are =
primarily for the use of the Routing ADs, it would be helpful if you =
could consider them along with any other IETF Last Call comments that =
you receive, and strive to resolve them through discussion or by =
updating the draft.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif; background-color: white;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
background-color: white; orphans: auto; text-align: start; widows: 1; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-spacing: 0px;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D"">Document:<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>draft-ietf-l2tpext-keyed-ipv6=
-tunnel-05txt<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br =
class=3D"">Reviewer: Alexander (=E2=80=9CSasha=E2=80=9D) Vainshtein<br =
class=3D"">Review Date: 18-Sep-15<br class=3D"">IETF LC End Date: Not =
Known<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br =
class=3D"">Intended Status: Proposed Standard<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
background-color: white; orphans: auto; text-align: start; widows: 1; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-spacing: 0px;" class=3D""><strong =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></strong></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif; background-color: white;" class=3D""><strong =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D"">Caveat:<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></strong></div><p style=3D"margin-right: 0cm; =
margin-left: 36pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; background-color: white; =
background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial =
initial;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D"">I am =
not an IPv6 expert and this can be the reason for some of my concerns =
about the draft.</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></p><p style=3D"margin-right:=
 0cm; margin-left: 36pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; background-color: white; =
background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial =
initial;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D"">My =
experience with L2TPv3 is also outdated. So I=E2=80=99d like to ask the =
Routing ADs to take my comments with a big grain of salt.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></p><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
background-color: white;" class=3D""><strong class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></strong></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
background-color: white;" class=3D""><strong class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D"">Summary:</span></strong><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><p =
style=3D"margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 36pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; =
background-repeat: initial initial;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: =
11pt;" class=3D"">I have one significant concern about this document and =
recommend that the Routing ADs discuss these issues further with the =
authors. I also have several minor concerns about the document that I =
think should be resolved before publication, and I have find a couple of =
nits.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></p><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
background-color: white;" class=3D""><strong class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></strong></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
background-color: white;" class=3D""><strong class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D"">Comments:</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></strong></div><p style=3D"margin-right: 0cm; =
margin-left: 36pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; background-color: white; =
background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial =
initial;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D"">As I =
see it, the draft is built around three key ideas:<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></p><p style=3D"margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: =
75.15pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; text-indent: -18pt; background-color: white; =
background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial =
initial;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D""><span =
class=3D"">1.<span style=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: =
'Times New Roman';" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></span></span><span =
dir=3D"LTR" class=3D""></span><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" =
class=3D"">IPv6 addresses, due to their unlimited availability, can be =
used to identify attachment circuits (or VSI forwarders)&nbsp; of L2TPv3 =
sessions (and not just tunnel endpoints as in RFC 3931).<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></p><p style=3D"margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: =
75.15pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; text-indent: -18pt; background-color: white; =
background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial =
initial;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D""><span =
class=3D"">2.<span style=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: =
'Times New Roman';" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></span></span><span =
dir=3D"LTR" class=3D""></span><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" =
class=3D"">With IPv6 addresses used for identifying L2 circuits or VSI) =
to be connected by L2TPv3 PWs, L2TPv3 Session ID processing in the data =
plane can be bypassed. I can guess that this really simplifies data =
plane handling and that this was the prime driver for the technology the =
draft defines, but this is just a guess.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></p><p style=3D"margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: =
75.15pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; text-indent: -18pt; background-color: white; =
background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial =
initial;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D""><span =
class=3D"">3.<span style=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: =
'Times New Roman';" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></span></span><span =
dir=3D"LTR" class=3D""></span><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" =
class=3D"">L2TPv3 sessions identified by IPv6 addresses can be used to =
provide operator-managed services that neither need nor use L2TPv3 =
control plane. The control plane functionality is moved to an external =
management entity that can access both endpoints of the service, sets =
the service up and continuously intervenes in its operation until it =
tears down the service.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></p><p =
style=3D"margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 36pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; =
background-repeat: initial initial;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: =
11pt;" class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
style=3D"margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 36pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; =
background-repeat: initial initial;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: =
11pt;" class=3D"">The term =E2=80=9Ckeyed IPv6 tunnel=E2=80=9D refers to =
an L2TPv3 session that bypasses Session ID processing and relies on IPv6 =
addresses of its endpoints. Depending on the nature of emulated Ethernet =
service, these IPv6 addresses are used to identify either L2 attachment =
circuits for P2P services or Virtual Switching Instances (VSI) for MP2MP =
services.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></p><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
background-color: white;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><p =
style=3D"margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 36pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; =
background-repeat: initial initial;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: =
11pt;" class=3D"">Since L2TPv3 control plane is by design left out of =
scope of the draft, it mainly deals with the data plane. Additional =
information about the management plane aspects can be found in the<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-l2tpext-keyed-v6-tunne=
l-yang/?include_text=3D1" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
underline;" class=3D"">YANG Data Model</a><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>draft.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></p><p style=3D"margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: =
36pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; background-color: white; background-position: =
initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p style=3D"margin-right: 0cm; =
margin-left: 36pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; background-color: white; =
background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial =
initial;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D"">The =
draft is not easy to read and understand (at least to me), mainly =
because pieces of important information are often distributed throughout =
the text.</span><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Courier =
New';" class=3D""><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D"">One example illustrating this =
complaint:<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></p><p style=3D"margin-right: =
0cm; margin-left: 72pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif; text-indent: -18pt; background-color: white; background-position: =
initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Symbol;" class=3D""><span =
class=3D"">=C2=B7<span style=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant: =
normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman';" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></span></span><span =
dir=3D"LTR" class=3D""></span><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" =
class=3D"">The first sentence in Section 2 states that =E2=80=9C</span><sp=
an style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" =
class=3D"">Static local configuration creates a one-to-one mapping =
between the&nbsp; access-side L2 attachment circuit and the IP address =
used in the network-side IPv6 encapsulation.&nbsp; The L2TPv3 Control =
Plane defined in RFC3931 is not used</span><span style=3D"font-size: =
11pt;" class=3D"">=E2=80=9D. This suggests(at least to me) that the =
management plane is involved just in setting up and tearing down a keyed =
IPv6 tunnel =E2=80=93 similar to how static PWs over MPLS PSN are =
operated.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></p><p style=3D"margin-right: 0cm; =
margin-left: 72pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif; text-indent: -18pt; background-color: white; background-position: =
initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Symbol;" class=3D""><span =
class=3D"">=C2=B7<span style=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant: =
normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman';" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></span></span><span =
dir=3D"LTR" class=3D""></span><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" =
class=3D"">The catch comes with the last sentence of Section 3: =
=E2=80=9C</span><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Courier =
New';" class=3D"">Cookie values SHOULD be changed =
periodically</span><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D"">=E2=80=9D =
thus indicating that continuous intervention of the management entity is =
expected for the entire life cycle of the service =E2=80=93 something =
that strongly smells of Lifecycle Service Orchestration (LSO) to me, =
even if the term is never mentioned.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></p><p =
style=3D"margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 36pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; =
background-repeat: initial initial;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: =
11pt;" class=3D"">In the process of preparing this review I have sent my =
comments to the authors, to Carlos (the draft shepherd) and to Mark (who =
is listed as a contributing author). I have received very useful =
feedback&nbsp; from them that has helped me to understand both the draft =
and the nature of our disagreements.&nbsp; I would like to thank Giles, =
Rayner, Carlos and Mark for a very useful discussion, even if we did not =
reach an agreement on some of the points yet.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></p><p style=3D"margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: =
36pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; background-color: white; background-position: =
initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
background-color: white;" class=3D""><strong class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D"">Major Issue:</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></strong></div><p style=3D"margin-right: 0cm; =
margin-left: 54pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; background-color: white; =
background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial =
initial;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" =
class=3D"">Specification of encapsulation of Ethernet frames in Section =
4 of the draft is incomplete and, to some extent, contradictory:<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></p><p style=3D"margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: =
90pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; text-indent: -18pt; background-color: white; =
background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial =
initial;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D""><span =
class=3D"">1.<span style=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: =
'Times New Roman';" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></span></span><span =
dir=3D"LTR" class=3D""></span><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" =
class=3D"">L2TPv3 L2-specific sublayer&nbsp; defined in RFC 3931 is not =
mentioned anywhere in the text.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></p><p =
style=3D"margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 90pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
text-indent: -18pt; background-color: white; background-position: =
initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D""><span class=3D"">2.<span =
style=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></span></span><span =
dir=3D"LTR" class=3D""></span><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" =
class=3D"">As the draft borrows encapsulation of Ethernet frames from =
RFC 4719, one could expect that its usage is OPTIONAL (same as in RFC =
4719)<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></p><p style=3D"margin-right: 0cm; =
margin-left: 90pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif; text-indent: -18pt; background-color: white; background-position: =
initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D""><span class=3D"">3.<span =
style=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></span></span><span =
dir=3D"LTR" class=3D""></span><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" =
class=3D"">On the other hand, L2-specific sublayer does not appear in =
the diagram depicting the encapsulation on page 5, so one could easily =
assume that it cannot be used with keyed IPv6 tunnels<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></p><p style=3D"margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: =
90pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
text-indent: -18pt; background-color: white; background-position: =
initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D""><span class=3D"">4.<span =
style=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></span></span><span =
dir=3D"LTR" class=3D""></span><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" =
class=3D"">To add to this confusion, the draft mentions ability to use =
VCCV in a keyed IPv6 tunnel (Section 6, last para), and references RFC =
5085. But this RFC, in Section 6.1 states that =E2=80=9C</span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class=3D"">In =
order to carry VCCV messages within an L2TPv3 session data packet, the =
PW MUST be established such that an L2-Specific Sublayer (L2SS) that =
defines the V-bit is present</span><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" =
class=3D"">=E2=80=9D<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></p><p =
style=3D"margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 54pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; background-color: white; =
background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial =
initial;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D"">=46rom =
my POV the authors must clearly and unequivocally specify whether =
L2-specific sublayer can or cannot be used in keyed IPv6 tunnels. If =
they decide that it cannot be used, the references to VCCV must be =
removed from the draft.<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></p><p style=3D"margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: =
54pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; =
background-repeat: initial initial;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: =
11pt;" class=3D"">I believe that this gap is acknowledged by the =
document shepherd and by one of the authors.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></p><p style=3D"margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: =
0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; =
background-repeat: initial initial;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: =
11pt;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><strong class=3D"">Minor =
Issues:</strong><o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></p><p style=3D"margin-right:=
 0cm; margin-left: 72pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; text-indent: -18pt; =
background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; =
background-repeat: initial initial;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: =
11pt;" class=3D""><span class=3D"">1.<span style=3D"font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: =
normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></span></span><span =
dir=3D"LTR" class=3D""></span><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" =
class=3D"">The draft does not explain the motivation for replacing the =
mechanism defined in RFC 4791 (which, AFAIK, was supposed to work =
equally well over IPv4 and IPv6). I can guess that bypassing processing =
of Session ID&nbsp; simplifies the data plane processing, but this is =
just my guess. Some text explaining the benefits of keyed IPv6 tunnels =
in comparison with RFC 4719 would be most helpful IMO.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></p><p style=3D"margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: =
72pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; text-indent: -18pt; background-color: white; =
background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial =
initial;" class=3D""><strong class=3D""><span style=3D"font-weight: =
normal;" class=3D""><span class=3D"">2.<span style=3D"font-style: =
normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; =
line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></span></span></strong=
><span dir=3D"LTR" class=3D""></span><strong class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-weight: normal;" class=3D"">To the best =
of my understanding, the technology defined in the draft heavily depends =
on availability of an external management entity that not only sets up =
and tears down the service (as is common with services that uses =
statically configured PWs, say, in MPLS-TP), but also intervenes in the =
operation of the service during its entire life cycle. However, the =
authors do not spell out their expectations from such an entity, the =
only exception being the need to periodically change the cookie values =
in a coordinated manner. I do not expect the draft to provide a detailed =
specification of such an entity, but I think that both the implementers =
and operators planning to deploy this technology would benefit from some =
additional information. In particular, the following aspects of behavior =
of the service that uses keyed IPv6 tunnels could be of special =
interest:</span></strong><strong class=3D""><span style=3D"font-weight: =
normal;" class=3D""><o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></strong></p><p =
style=3D"margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 108pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
text-indent: -18pt; background-color: white; background-position: =
initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;" class=3D""><strong =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-weight: normal;" =
class=3D""><span class=3D"">a.<span style=3D"font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: =
normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></span></span></strong=
><span dir=3D"LTR" class=3D""></span><strong class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-weight: normal;" class=3D"">What happens =
to a P2P service that uses a keyed IPv6 tunnel to connect two Ethernet =
L2 circuits if failure of one of these circuits is detected (e.g., using =
Ethernet service CFM&nbsp; between the Down MEP at the tunnel endpoint =
and a matching MEP in the CE as defined in Section 6, the first bullet =
on page 8)? Is transmission across the IPv6 PSN at the other endpoint =
expected to be throttled by the management entity?<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></strong></p><p style=3D"margin-right: 0cm; =
margin-left: 108pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; text-indent: -18pt; background-color: =
white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial =
initial;" class=3D""><strong class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-weight: normal;" class=3D""><span class=3D"">b.<span =
style=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></span></span></strong=
><span dir=3D"LTR" class=3D""></span><strong class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-weight: normal;" class=3D"">The =
possibility to use an anycast address for identification of a keyed IPv6 =
tunnel endpoint is mentioned twice in the draft - in Section 2, 3<sup =
class=3D"">rd</sup><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>para=
 and in Section 4, first bullet on page 6. What happens if an anycast =
address assigned to one of the endpoints of a keyed IPv6 tunnel moves =
across the network? Is the management entity expected to handle these =
transitions, say, by de-activating the former endpoint associated with =
an anycast address and activating the new one?<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></strong></p><p style=3D"margin-right: 0cm; =
margin-left: 108pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; text-indent: -18pt; background-color: =
white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial =
initial;" class=3D""><strong class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-weight: normal;" class=3D""><span class=3D"">c.<span =
style=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></span></span></strong=
><span dir=3D"LTR" class=3D""></span><strong class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-weight: normal;" class=3D"">Is the =
management entity expected to emulate the PW redundancy mechanisms =
(defined in RFC 67180 and RFC 6870 for PWs over an MPLS PSN and in RFC =
5641 for the PWs using L2TPv3? It should be noted that, in the case of =
MPLS PWs, PW redundancy switchover does not require involvement of a =
management entity even for statically configured PWs. Instead, static PW =
status messages (RFC 6478) are used<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></strong></p><p style=3D"margin-right: 0cm; =
margin-left: 108pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; text-indent: -18pt; background-color: =
white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial =
initial;" class=3D""><strong class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-weight: normal;" class=3D""><span class=3D"">d.<span =
style=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></span></span></strong=
><span dir=3D"LTR" class=3D""></span><strong class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-weight: normal;" class=3D"">The draft =
mentions the possibility to use keyed IPv6 tunnels to connect VSI =
participating in an MP2MP Ethernet service (even if the term VSI is =
never used). To me this implies that local FIB in each of the VSI =
connected over keyed IPv6 tunnels would use MAC learning to populate its =
local FIB. In order to speed up convergence of such services following =
various external events, RFC 4672 introduces a dedicated mechanism for =
MAC withdrawal, and the PALS WG currently holds a WG item extending this =
functionality for VPLS services that use static PWs. Is the management =
entity expected to provide similar functionality as well? (It should be =
noted that MAC withdrawal mechanisms have been defined as OPTIONAL in =
RFC 4762, but, AFAIK, they are widely implemented and deployed in the =
field).<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></strong></p><p style=3D"margin-right:=
 0cm; margin-left: 72pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; text-indent: -18pt; =
background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; =
background-repeat: initial initial;" class=3D""><strong class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-weight: normal;" class=3D""><span =
class=3D"">3.<span style=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: =
'Times New Roman';" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></span></span></strong=
><span dir=3D"LTR" class=3D""></span><strong class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-weight: normal;" class=3D"">The draft =
mentions (in many places) that it expects consistent configuration of =
the endpoints of a keyed IPv6 tunnel. However, the draft (probably =
following a similar omission in RFC 4719) never mentions whether the =
management entity should prevent setting up a keyed IPv6 tunnel between =
a pair of endpoints with different MTU of L2 circuits. (This is a =
clear-cut requirement in RFC 4448 for Ethernet PWs over an MPLS PSN, and =
a parallel requirement for PWs over L2TPv3 can be found in RFC =
4667).&nbsp; A short statement and a reference to RFC 4667 (missing in =
RFC 4719) would suffice IMO,<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></strong></p><p =
style=3D"margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 72pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
text-indent: -18pt; background-color: white; background-position: =
initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;" class=3D""><span =
class=3D"">4.<span style=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: =
'Times New Roman';" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></span><span =
dir=3D"LTR" class=3D""></span><strong class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size:=
 11pt; font-weight: normal;" class=3D"">As mentioned before, the draft =
de-facto assigns IPv6 addresses to access-side L2 circuits that are not =
IP interfaces (the draft uses the term =E2=80=9Cmapping=E2=80=9D, but I =
do not see any difference). The draft RECOMMENDS (in para 2 of Section =
2) that =E2=80=9C</span></strong><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: 'Courier New';" class=3D"">l<span style=3D"" class=3D"">ocal =
IPv6 addresses identifying L2TPv3 tunnels are assigned from&nbsp; =
dedicated subnets used only for such tunnel endpoints</span></span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D"">=E2=80=9D. =46rom my POV this =
requirement is vague and the readers could benefit from clarification of =
associated issues. Again, I do not expect a detailed specification, but =
I would like to see the some answers to the following na=C3=AFve =
questions:</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></p><p style=3D"margin-right: =
0cm; margin-left: 108pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; text-indent: -18pt; =
background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; =
background-repeat: initial initial;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: =
11pt;" class=3D""><span class=3D"">a.<span style=3D"font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: =
normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></span></span><span =
dir=3D"LTR" class=3D""></span><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" =
class=3D"">Is&nbsp; an IPv6 address identifying an endpoint of a keyed =
IPv6 tunnel that is associated with a L2 circuit expected to remain =
reachable if the L2 circuit to which it is associated fails?<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></p><p style=3D"margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: =
108pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; text-indent: -18pt; background-color: white; =
background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial =
initial;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D""><span =
class=3D"">b.<span style=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: =
'Times New Roman';" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></span></span><span =
dir=3D"LTR" class=3D""></span><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" =
class=3D"">Are addresses (or subnets) used for identification of =
endpoints of keyed IPv6 tunnels expected to be exposed beyond the =
boundaries of the management domain controlled by the above-mentioned =
management entity? Could they appear in the public Internet routing =
tables?<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></p><p style=3D"margin-right: 0cm; =
margin-left: 72pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; text-indent: -18pt; background-color: =
white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial =
initial;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D""><span =
class=3D"">5.<span style=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: =
'Times New Roman';" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></span></span><span =
dir=3D"LTR" class=3D""></span><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" =
class=3D"">The draft says (Section 2, 3<sup class=3D"">rd</sup><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>para) that =E2=80=9C</span><s=
pan style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" =
class=3D"">Certain deployment scenarios may require using a single IPv6 =
address (typically a globally routable unicast or anycast address =
assigned to a virtual interface) to identify a tunnel endpoint for =
multiple IPv6 L2TPv3 tunnels.&nbsp; For such cases the tunnel =
encapsulating device &nbsp;identifies each tunnel by a unique =
combination of local and remote &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;IPv6 =
addresses</span><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D"">=E2=80=9D. =
=46rom my POV the readers would benefit from the following =
clarifications:<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></p><p style=3D"margin-right: =
0cm; margin-left: 108pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; text-indent: -18pt; =
background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; =
background-repeat: initial initial;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: =
11pt;" class=3D""><span class=3D"">a.<span style=3D"font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: =
normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></span></span><span =
dir=3D"LTR" class=3D""></span><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" =
class=3D"">What exactly =E2=80=9C</span><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: 'Courier New';" class=3D"">a globally routable =
address</span><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D"">=E2=80=9D =
means in this context?<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></p><p =
style=3D"margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 108pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
text-indent: -18pt; background-color: white; background-position: =
initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D""><span class=3D"">b.<span =
style=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></span></span><span =
dir=3D"LTR" class=3D""></span><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" =
class=3D"">How, from the point of view of network reachability, are IPv6 =
addresses used in this scenario different from IPv6 addresses used to =
identify L2 circuits in other deployment scenarios?<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></p><p style=3D"margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: =
108pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; text-indent: -18pt; background-color: white; =
background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial =
initial;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D""><span =
class=3D"">c.<span style=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: =
'Times New Roman';" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></span></span><span =
dir=3D"LTR" class=3D""></span><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" =
class=3D"">Since the text mentions identification of the tunnel by an =
=E2=80=9C</span><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Courier =
New';" class=3D"">encapsulation device</span><span style=3D"font-size: =
11pt;" class=3D"">=E2=80=9D, how is the tunnel identified by the =
decapsulating device? At least from the POV of MAC learning in the case =
of keyed IPv6 tunnels connecting VSI, identification of the tunnel by =
the decapsulating device seems more relevant to me<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></p><p style=3D"margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: =
108pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; text-indent: -18pt; background-color: white; =
background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial =
initial;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D""><span =
class=3D"">d.<span style=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: =
'Times New Roman';" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></span></span><span =
dir=3D"LTR" class=3D""></span><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" =
class=3D"">How should the device &nbsp;know whether a specific keyed =
IPv6 tunnel can be identified by just one IPv6 address or by a =
=E2=80=9C</span><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Courier =
New';" class=3D"">a unique combination of local and remote =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;IPv6 addresses</span><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" =
class=3D"">=E2=80=9D?<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></p><p =
style=3D"margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 72pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
text-indent: -18pt; background-color: white; background-position: =
initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;" class=3D""><span =
class=3D"">6.<span style=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: =
'Times New Roman';" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></span><span =
dir=3D"LTR" class=3D""></span><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" =
class=3D"">As I have mentioned above, some details pertaining to the =
management functionality associated with keyed IPv6 tunnels are defined =
in another L2TPEXT WG draft, but this draft is not mentioned in the =
draft I am reviewing</span>.&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size: =
11pt;" class=3D"">I think that an Informative reference to this draft =
would be very much in place in this one.</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></p><p style=3D"margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 72pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-bottom: =
0.0001pt; text-indent: -18pt; background-color: white; =
background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial =
initial;" class=3D""><strong class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-weight: normal;" class=3D""><span class=3D"">7.<span =
style=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></span></span></strong=
><span dir=3D"LTR" class=3D""></span><strong class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-weight: normal;" class=3D"">I wonder =
whether an Informative reference to a long (13-Jan-1999 according to the =
Datatracker) expired<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-pppext-l2tphc/" =
style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">draft</a><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>of =
a concluded WG in the last sentence on page 3 has any value for the =
reader. If the ideas of this draft have found their way to some RFC, it =
should be used as a reference instead; otherwise I believe that this =
reference cold be safely removed.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></strong></p><p style=3D"margin-right: 0cm; =
margin-left: 36pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; background-color: white; =
background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial =
initial;" class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
style=3D"margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 36pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; =
background-repeat: initial initial;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: =
11pt;" class=3D"">Some of the issues I have raised could be addressed in =
a suitable Applicability Statement section, but there are clearly other =
ways to handle them.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></p><div style=3D"margin:=
 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif; background-color: white;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
background-color: white;" class=3D""><strong class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D"">Nits:<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></strong></div><p style=3D"margin-right: 0cm; =
margin-left: 36pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; background-color: white; =
background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial =
initial;" class=3D""><strong class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-weight: normal;" class=3D"">I (or, rather, my spellchecker) has =
found two typos:<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></strong></p><p =
style=3D"margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 72pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
text-indent: -18pt; background-color: white; background-position: =
initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: Symbol;" class=3D""><span class=3D"">=C2=B7<span =
style=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></span></span><span =
dir=3D"LTR" class=3D""></span><strong class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size:=
 11pt; font-weight: normal;" class=3D"">Section 2, para 2:<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></strong><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" =
class=3D"">s/endponts/endpoints/</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></p><p =
style=3D"margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 72pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
text-indent: -18pt; background-color: white; background-position: =
initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: Symbol;" class=3D""><span class=3D"">=C2=B7<span =
style=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></span></span><span =
dir=3D"LTR" class=3D""></span><strong class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size:=
 11pt; font-weight: normal;" class=3D"">Section 5, para 3 on page =
7:&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></strong><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" =
class=3D"">s/Fragmention/Fragmentation/</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></p><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; background-color: white;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">Regards,<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">Sasha<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">Office: +972-39266302<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Cell:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
+972-549266302<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">Email:&nbsp;&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com</a><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
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