
From tlr@w3.org  Thu Nov  5 12:06:43 2009
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From: Thomas Roessler <tlr@w3.org>
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Cc: Mark Nottingham <mnot@mnot.net>, Frederick Hirsch <Frederick.Hirsch@nokia.com>
Subject: [saag] Heads-up: XML Signature 1.1 W3C Last Call coming up
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As a heads-up, the W3C XML Security Working Group is planning to take  
its XML Signature 1.1 and XML Encryption 1.1 specifications to W3C  
Last Call within the next few weeks.  Main changes against XML  
Signature 1.0 and XML Encryption 1.0 relate to including support for  
Suite B algorithms (including mark-up for key material).  The group is  
wrapping up discussions about making these algorithms mandatory to  
implement in the Last Call Working Draft; however, that would be up  
for further investigation and possibly subject to change as the specs  
move further along the W3C recommendation track.

Review of the editor's drafts would be welcome:
   http://www.w3.org/2008/xmlsec/Drafts/xmldsig-core-11/
   http://www.w3.org/2008/xmlsec/Drafts/xmlenc-core-11/

We'll send a formal review request through the W3C/IETF liaison  
channel once the Last Call Working Drafts are out.

On a related note, the Working Group recently published a First Public  
Working Draft of XML Security Generic Hybrid Ciphers.  That  
specification, too would benefit from early review:
   http://www.w3.org/TR/xmlsec-generic-hybrid/

If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to contact Frederick  
Hirsch (WG chair; copied on this note) or myself.  Unfortunately,  
neither of us will be able to travel to Hiroshima.

Regards,
--
Thomas Roessler, W3C  <tlr@w3.org>


From barryleiba@gmail.com  Wed Nov 11 16:19:59 2009
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Subject: [saag] DKIM report for IETF 76
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DKIM didn't meet this time. Discussion about re-chartering is ongoing
with a number of suggestions having been made.  The main item under
consideration is moveing 4871 to DS, though some other topics have
been suggested. The chairs will shortly be taking a poll to see which
items garner rough consensus in the WG.

Barry and Stephen

From julienl@qualcomm.com  Wed Nov 11 16:22:47 2009
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From: "Laganier, Julien" <julienl@qualcomm.com>
To: "saag@ietf.org" <saag@ietf.org>
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 16:23:06 -0800
Thread-Topic: BTNS report
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Subject: [saag] BTNS report
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RFC 5660 - IPsec Channels: Connection Latching was recently published as a =
proposed standard.

The last unfinished deliverable left for the working group is the API for a=
pplications to use BTNS IPsec channels. It's not clear if the working group=
 has sufficient energy to progress that work.

--julien, BTNS co-chair

From ietfdbh@comcast.net  Wed Nov 11 16:29:13 2009
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From: "David Harrington" <ietfdbh@comcast.net>
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Subject: [saag] syslog wg status
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Syslog WG did not meet at ietf76. The WG is resolving DISCUSSes for
the syslog sign document. The syslog-dtls-00 draft has been published
and has received detailed reviews, including comments from Eliot Lear,
Tom Petch, Rainer Gerhards, and Sam Hartman to be resolved. We are
currently on target to meet our March 2010 deadlines.

David Harrington
co-chair, syslog WG


From sethomso@cisco.com  Wed Nov 11 16:38:07 2009
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From: "Susan Thomson (sethomso)" <sethomso@cisco.com>
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Subject: [saag] NEA WG Report for IETF76
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The NEA working group met on Monday Nov 9 at 17.40 JST.

WG Status and Progress since last IETF:
The IESG has completed its evaluation of PA-TNC and PB-TNC. The PA-TNC
I-D has been approved by the IESG and has been sent to the RFC Editor
for publication as Proposed Standard. The IESG is ready to approve
PB-TNC. However, since a couple of significant changes were made in the
PB-TNC I-D to respond to IESG comments, the changes were discussed
during the WG meeting and are currently under review on the WG mailing
list. Assuming no issues arise from this review, PB-TNC I-D will also
move forward to Proposed Standard. This work completes the milestones in
the original charter.

Upcoming work:
The NEA WG charter has recently been updated to allow work on specifying
protocols for the posture transport (PT). There is a WG call for
individual submissions for the PT protocol due on Jan 4, 2010. In the
meantime, a conceptual overview of upcoming proposals was discussed
during the WF meeting. Steve Hanna provided an overview of upcoming
submissions from the TCG. Two PT protocols, one based on TLS and the
other EAP, were presented to cater for different use cases.=20

Next Steps:
The WG plans to hold a virtual interim meeting prior to IETF77 to
discuss the PT individual submissions and help reach consensus on a WG
document.

From jsalowey@cisco.com  Wed Nov 11 16:56:50 2009
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EMU met Monday afternoon.  We are continuing work on progressing tunnel
method requirements towards the IESG.  We will start working group last
call on EAP Channel Bindings soon.  There is a liaison from ITU to
review ITU-T X.1034, Guideline on extensible authentication protocol
based authentication and key management in a data communication network.
There was a presentation from ECRIT on unauthenticated emergency access
and EAP, there will be review and discussion of this between the two
groups. There were also presentations on session policy in EAP and
Biometric authentication in EAP. =20


From jsalowey@cisco.com  Wed Nov 11 17:01:27 2009
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TLS will meet the session after SAAG.  The main topic will be on a
renegotiation vulnerability.  Background can be found
http://www.educatedguesswork.org/2009/11/understanding_the_tls_renegoti.
html and http://extendedsubset.com/Renegotiating_TLS.pdf.  We will
discuss a proposed extension to fix this problem. =20



=20

From turners@ieca.com  Wed Nov 11 17:02:19 2009
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SMIME did not meet at IETF 76.  Of the 7 active IDs, 6 are with the RFC 
editor. 5 are in AUTH48.  This WG should not be long for this world.

spt

From Shawn.Emery@Sun.COM  Wed Nov 11 17:05:50 2009
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Subject: [saag] Kitten Working Group Summary - IETF 76
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The kitten-wg met Wednesday, 11/11/09, during the first morning session.

Co-chairs: Tom Yu and Shawn Emery

The goals of the meeting were to review the state of the active working 
group items, one individual submission, charter, and milestones.

gssapi-extensions-iana
----------------------------
Tim Polk is working with Michelle Cotton on progressing the review this 
week.

extended-mech-inquiry
-----------------------------
Published as RFC 5587.

gssapi-naming-exts
------------------------
Editor has had feed-back from multiple implementors.  Will have updates 
and should be ready for WGLC by 3/10.

rfc2853bis
-------------
Published as RFC 5653.

draft-lha-gssapi-delegate-policy
---------------------------------------
Current state: AD evaluation.
AD: To send to IETF LC.

Future WG Items
-----------------------
We discussed requested new work items:
    initialization/new credentials
    listing/iterating credentials
    exporting/importing credentials
    error message reporting
    asynchronous calls
    security strength reporting
    programmer friendliness
Will prioritize which items should be handled on the list.

Charter/Milestones
------------------------
Will recharter if there is enough momentum behind work items proposed.
New milestone: WGLC gssapi-naming-exts 3/10 (Orig 11/07)

Shawn and Tom Yu.
--

From mcr@marajade.sandelman.ca  Wed Nov 11 17:43:02 2009
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Subject: Re: [saag] BTNS report
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>>>>> "Julien" == Julien Laganier <Laganier> writes:
    Julien> The last unfinished deliverable left for the working group
    Julien> is the API for applications to use BTNS IPsec channels. It's
    Julien> not clear if the working group has sufficient energy to
    Julien> progress that work.

As an author, let me state that we have received very little feedback.
We have received some feedback, but it was not terribly useful.  

As an author, I do not feel the document should progress until someone
who is implementing has really sat down and worked on it. Unfortunately,
I am not in a position to implement.

I propose to close BTNS, sadly.

-- 
]       He who is tired of Weird Al is tired of life!           |  firewalls  [
]   Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works, Ottawa, ON    |net architect[
] mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca http://www.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca/ |device driver[
   Kyoto Plus: watch the video <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzx1ycLXQSE>
	               then sign the petition. 

From bew@cisco.com  Wed Nov 11 18:14:54 2009
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The MSEC WG met Monday morning for about 2 hours. After a brief  
document and WG status review we had several presentations. We started  
with two presentations preposing new modes of MIKEY key agreement.  
Rolf Blum presented MIKEY-TICKET, a Kerberos-like method where a  
trusted third party provides session keys and policy to devices.   
Violeta Cakulev presented MIKEY-IBAKE, an identity based  
authentication method based on RFC 5408. Both presentations had lively  
and interesting discussions.

Following both presentations the WG engaged in a discussion as to  
whether the WG should continue to publish MIKEY specifications. MIKEY  
specifications are generally used as key agreement methods for SRTP.  
It was noted that some time ago that IETF WGs specifying SRTP have  
adopted other preferred key agreement methods. However, it was also  
noted that the 3GPP SDO does specify the use of some MIKEY modes,  
which requires IETF Consensus to add to the MIKEY IANA registries. The  
chair asked for a declaration from individuals who would promise to  
spend time reviewing the documents. There was not enough response, and  
so the WG will not take up the new MIKEY work. Tim Polk did agree to  
sponsor these I-Ds as individual submissions.

The meeting concluded with an informational presentation on a link- 
layer group key agreement method being standardized by IEEE 802.1. It  
was pointed out that the techniques used in this method could be very  
useful in addressing link-layer routing protocol security in the future.

Brian Weis




From Shawn.Emery@Sun.COM  Wed Nov 11 19:47:37 2009
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Subject: [saag] SASL Working Group Summary - IETF 76
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The sasl-wg met Wednesday, 11/11/09, during the second morning session.

Co-chairs: Tom Yu and Kurt Zeilenga (acting, Alexey Melnikov and Shawn 
Emery)

The primary goal of the meeting was to review the solution of SASLprep.  
This discussion branched to two aspects:

    Whether we should support agility or use one version. Trade-offs:
        Using one version may have issues as bugs may occur
        Using an agile solution is more complex

    Other issue is where should normalization take place; client or 
server.  Aspects:
        Server should know the supported types, clients could have 
orthogonal types
        If client normalizes then if server normalizes, should be immutable
        This problem is not indigenous to SASL

    It was suggested to have a BoF during the next IETF to find a solution

Shawn and Alexey Melnikov.
--

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Subject: [saag] Kerberos Working Group Summary - IETF 76
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The kerberos-wg met Wednesday, 11/11/09, during the first afternoon session.

Co-chairs: Larry Zhu and Jeffrey Hutzelman (acting, Shawn Emery)

The goals of the meeting were to discuss the FAST negotiation issue and 
resolve encryption type semantics in the KDC data model.

Sam Hartman presented issues with FAST negotiation.  Need a way to 
determine if the KDC supports FAST and a way to negotiate the armor 
ticket securely.  Solution entails supplying integrity check in the 
AS-REP on the server side, providing a new PA-type by the client, and 
new negotiation to thwart down grade attack.  WG members agreed to the 
solution presented.

Encryption type attribute in the data model needs better semantics.  
Suggestions include separting attribute and policy.  Some members would 
like to include positive/negative support for these.

Document Status
----------------------
draft-ietf-krb-wg-preauth-framework
    1 asn.1 issue (uint32 undefined)
    Tom Yu will verify type registry is accurate before sending off for 
IANA review
    no implementors
draft-josefsson-kerberos5-starttls
    WGLC finished
draft-ietf-krb-wg-cross-problem-statement
    IETF Last Call/IESG Review

Shawn.
--

From tobias.gondrom@gondrom.org  Wed Nov 11 19:48:22 2009
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Subject: [saag] saag: LTANS WG Report for IETF 76
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LTANS did not meet at IETF76.

4 I-D updates:
- DSSC has been published as RFC 5698
- I-D LTAP and XMLERS waiting for closure with some uncertainty whether
we will finish them or abort; deadline for decision next IETF (will
depend on implementations and progress of drafts until IETF77).
- planned one short informational I-D as a final capstone to provide a
how-to for using all existing drafts together in a system.

Tobias


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Thread-Topic: IPsecME WG report
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--_000_7F9A6D26EB51614FBF9F81C0DA4CFEC801BDF872C10Filex01adche_
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IPsecME met this morning.

We have one RFC (IKEv2 Redirect) recently published, and a couple more in t=
he RFC Editor queue. The other "small" drafts are coming along as well.

The group is making progress on IKEv2-bis, and we had a presentation on one=
 thorny protocol issue that was resolved by a design team. Our goal is to m=
ove it out of the WG *before* the next F2F meeting.

The bulk of the meeting was presentation of 7 candidate work items. The gro=
up was polled for volunteer reviewers and contributors for each of these. T=
his process will continue on the mailing list, and eventually we will propo=
se a new charter, retaining the number of concurrent work items.

On the process side, we had one presenter on an audio bridge - which worked=
 fine - and another as a prerecorded "podcast", which also worked after som=
e technical fumbling.

--_000_7F9A6D26EB51614FBF9F81C0DA4CFEC801BDF872C10Filex01adche_
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hemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">

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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:1=
0.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>IPsecME met this morning.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:1=
0.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:1=
0.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>We have one RFC (IKEv2 Redirect) recently published, and=
 a
couple more in the RFC Editor queue. The other &#8220;small&#8221; drafts a=
re coming along
as well.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:1=
0.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:1=
0.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>The group is making progress on IKEv2-bis, and we had a
presentation on one thorny protocol issue that was resolved by a design tea=
m.
Our goal is to move it out of the WG *<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>b=
efore</span></b>*
the next F2F meeting.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:1=
0.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:1=
0.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>The bulk of the meeting was presentation of 7 candidate =
work
items. The group was polled for volunteer reviewers and contributors for ea=
ch
of these. This process will continue on the mailing list, and eventually we
will propose a new charter, retaining the number of concurrent work items.<=
o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:1=
0.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:1=
0.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>On the process side, we had one presenter on an audio br=
idge
&#8211; which worked fine &#8211; and another as a prerecorded &#8220;podca=
st&#8221;, which also worked
after some technical fumbling.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

</body>

</html>

--_000_7F9A6D26EB51614FBF9F81C0DA4CFEC801BDF872C10Filex01adche_--

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> Hi all,
>
> The notes from hokey=92s session are attached.
>
> Tina
http://tinatsou.weebly.com/contact.html


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<html><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"-webkit-text-stroke-width: -1; =
"><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" color=3D"#000000">Hi =
all,</font></span></div></div><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; =
white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0; "><div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" =
vlink=3D"purple"><o:smarttagtype =
namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" =
name=3D"place"><o:smarttagtype =
namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" =
name=3D"PersonName"><div class=3D"Section1"><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size=3D"2" =
face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; =
"><o:p><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
color=3D"#000000">&nbsp;</font></o:p></span></font></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman'; "><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size: =
10pt; font-family: Arial; "><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
color=3D"#000000">The notes from hokey=92s session are =
attached.</font><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
color=3D"#000000"><o:p></o:p></font></span></font></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman'; "><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size: =
10pt; font-family: Arial; "><o:p><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
color=3D"#000000">&nbsp;</font></o:p></span></font></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman'; "><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"Arial" size=3D"3"><span=
 class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 13px;"><font =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
color=3D"#000000">Tina</font></span></font><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"color: rgb(20, 79, 174); font-size: =
12px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: -1; =
">&nbsp;</span></div></div></o:smarttagtype></o:smarttagtype></div></span>=
</blockquote><a =
href=3D"http://tinatsou.weebly.com/contact.html">http://tinatsou.weebly.co=
m/contact.html</a><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: =
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0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0; "><div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" =
vlink=3D"purple"><o:smarttagtype =
namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" =
name=3D"place"><o:smarttagtype =
namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" =
name=3D"PersonName"><div =
class=3D"Section1"></div></o:smarttagtype></o:smarttagtype></div></span></=
blockquote></div></body></html>=

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From jhutz@cmu.edu  Wed Nov 11 21:26:51 2009
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Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 00:27:14 -0500
From: Jeffrey Hutzelman <jhutz@cmu.edu>
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Subject: [saag] KRB-WG session summary for IETF76
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DECISIONS (to be validated):

ACTION ITEMS:
- jhutz: send starttls to IESG
- jimsch: validate ASN.1 module in preauth
- tlyu: re-verify registry data in preauth
- jhutz: send preauth to IESG
- hartmans, lha: examine option for simpler anonymous PKINIT
- leifj: revise data model

SESSION SUMMARY:

* Reviewed recent changes in document status:
  - STARTTLS is mostly ready to go to the IESG.  The EKU/SAN issue is
    not fully resolved, but we've agreed to send the document as-is,
    with the issue called out in the PROTO writeup.  Sam and/or Nico
    may re-raise the issue in IETF last call, where hopefully it will
    get some input from the PKIX community.

  - The preauth framework document is done and ready to go to the IESG.
    Before it can be sent, we need confirmation that the padata registry
    is correct (tlyu) and that the ASN.1 module compiles (jimsch).  The
    chairs asked whether anyone was planning on implementing or had
    already done so, and got multiple positive responses.

  - Sam Hartman asked about the status of the DHCPv6 option draft.  The
    author of that document, Shoichi Sakane indicated he hasn't had time
    to work on it recently due to dealing with comments on the cross-realm
    problem statement draft, but will get to it shortly after IETF.

  - Sam also asked about the status of anonymous, particularly with
    respect to Love's proposal for a simpler way to insure that, in an
    anonymous PKINIT transaction, both the client and KDC have contributed
    to the TGS session key.


* Discussed two documents in last call:
  - The cross-realm problem statement document received comments during
    IETF last call which resulted in substantial revisions.  A new WGLC
    has been started and will run until the end of November.  Shoichi
    Sakane indicated he has some minor edits to -05 which he will post
    to the list during the last call.  All participants are encouraged
    to review and comment on the new version before the last call ends.

  - The KDC data model document has recently concluded its third WGLC,
    and several comments were raised.  Discussion is still ongoing on
    several of these; a new document version is expected shortly after
    discussion dies down.

* Sam Hartman described a proposal for an extension to provide for
  protected negotiation of FAST by adding a typed-hole for protected
  data in the AS-REP.  This technique was first used by Microsoft in
  Windows 2000 and seems to work.


From mundy@tislabs.com  Thu Nov 12 07:31:48 2009
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Subject: [saag] ISMS Meeting Summary for IETF 76
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Resending per Tim's request.  Russ

Summary:

  ISMS is working on two chartered documents. The first document on is
  a transport model for running SNMP over TLS and DTLS. A new revision
  of the document was posted and WG last call was started before the
  IETF meeting. All last comments received so far were discussed and
  resolved during the WG meeting. However, additional reviews are more
  than welcome. The second document describes how RADIUS can be used
  to provision security name to group name mappings in the VACM access
  control model. This document is progressing slowly and the chairs
  are working on finding an additional document editor so that the
  goal of delivering both documents in January 2010 to the IESG can be
  met.

WG Chairs:      Russ Mundy <russ.mundy@sparta.com>
   		Juergen
   		Schoenwaelder<j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> 
WG URL: http://tools.ietf.org/wg/isms/


From Nicolas.Williams@sun.com  Thu Nov 12 09:36:26 2009
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From: Nicolas Williams <Nicolas.Williams@sun.com>
To: Michael Richardson <mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca>
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On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 08:43:29PM -0500, Michael Richardson wrote:
> >>>>> "Julien" == Julien Laganier <Laganier> writes:
>     Julien> The last unfinished deliverable left for the working group
>     Julien> is the API for applications to use BTNS IPsec channels. It's
>     Julien> not clear if the working group has sufficient energy to
>     Julien> progress that work.
> 
> As an author, let me state that we have received very little feedback.
> We have received some feedback, but it was not terribly useful.  

We got enough help to complete two RFCs specifying protocols (BTNS core,
and connection latching).  I'm very grateful for that help.  It wasn't
copious though, and I'm afraid that APIs will get less attention still.

> As an author, I do not feel the document should progress until someone
> who is implementing has really sat down and worked on it. Unfortunately,
> I am not in a position to implement.

The same goes for me.  I think IPsec API standardization will have to
wait until there are implementations.  I'd rather both happen more or
less concurrently, because I think implementors will need some guidance,
but at least RFC5560 provides enough of an [very] abstract API that I
think things will turn out OK.

> I propose to close BTNS, sadly.

I agree, also sadly.  API documents can proceed as individual
submissions if authors have the energy for it, or as work items for
whatever IPsec WG successor is open that will change its charter to
cover them (but more interest will have to be a prerequisite).

Nico
-- 

From touch@ISI.EDU  Thu Nov 12 13:58:10 2009
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1



Nicolas Williams wrote:
>...
> I agree, also sadly.  API documents can proceed as individual
> submissions if authors have the energy for it, or as work items for
> whatever IPsec WG successor is open that will change its charter to
> cover them (but more interest will have to be a prerequisite).

Couldn't they also be AD-sponsored in SAAG?

I.e., we don't need to worry about a WG home for this work, and waiting
for implementation experience seems prudent anyway.

Joe
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From Nicolas.Williams@sun.com  Thu Nov 12 14:59:17 2009
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References: <BF345F63074F8040B58C00A186FCA57F1C648CAD5D@NALASEXMB04.na.qualcomm.com> <18485.1257990209@marajade.sandelman.ca> <20091112172515.GD1105@Sun.COM> <4AFC84DF.9050002@isi.edu>
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On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 01:57:51PM -0800, Joe Touch wrote:
> > I agree, also sadly.  API documents can proceed as individual
> > submissions if authors have the energy for it, or as work items for
> > whatever IPsec WG successor is open that will change its charter to
> > cover them (but more interest will have to be a prerequisite).
> 
> Couldn't they also be AD-sponsored in SAAG?

Same thing.

> I.e., we don't need to worry about a WG home for this work, and waiting
> for implementation experience seems prudent anyway.

No, we don't, not yet anyways.

From Pasi.Eronen@nokia.com  Mon Nov 23 11:57:54 2009
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From: <Pasi.Eronen@nokia.com>
To: <saag@ietf.org>
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 20:57:15 +0100
Thread-Topic: IETF76 SAAG draft minutes
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I've uploaded the draft minutes from SAAG here:=20

http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/09nov/minutes/saag.txt

Please send any corrections/additions to me and Tim.=20
(And big thanks to Jim Schaad for taking notes again!)
=20
Best regards,
Pasi

From paul.hoffman@vpnc.org  Tue Nov 24 10:20:11 2009
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Subject: [saag] Fwd: WG Review: HTTP State Management Mechanism (httpstate)
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People here may be interested in this, given that HTTP cookies are a primary security mechanism for the web.

--Paul Hoffman

>X-Original-To: ietf-announce@ietf.org
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>From: IESG Secretary <iesg-secretary@ietf.org>
>To: ietf-announce@ietf.org
>Subject: WG Review: HTTP State Management Mechanism (httpstate)
>Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 10:00:02 -0800 (PST)
>Cc: http-state@ietf.org
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>
>A new IETF working group has been proposed in the Applications Area.  The
>IESG has not made any determination as yet.  The following draft charter
>was submitted, and is provided for informational purposes only.  Please
>send your comments to the IESG mailing list (iesg@ietf.org) by Tuesday,
>December 1, 2009.
>
>HTTP State Management Mechanism (httpstate)
>---------------------------------------------------
>Current Status: Proposed Working Group
>Last modified: 2009-11-11
>
>Chair(s):
>  TBD
>
>Applications Area Director(s):
>  Lisa Dusseault <lisa.dusseault@gmail.com>
>  Alexey Melnikov <alexey.melnikov@isode.com>
>
>Applications Area Advisor:
>  Lisa Dusseault <lisa.dusseault@gmail.com>
>
>Mailing Lists:
>  General Discussion: http-state@ietf.org
>  To Subscribe: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/http-state
>  Archive: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/http-
>state/current/maillist.html
>  Alternative Archive: http://groups.google.com/group/http-state 
>
>Description of Working Group: 
>
>The HTTP State Management Mechanism (aka Cookies) was originally
>created by Netscape Communications in their informal Netscape cookie
>specification ("cookie_spec.html"), from which formal specifications
>RFC 2109 and RFC 2965 evolved.  The formal specifications, however,
>were never fully implemented in practice; RFC 2109, in addition to
>cookie_spec.html, more closely resemble real-world implementations than
>RFC 2965, even though RFC 2965 officially obsoletes the former.
>Compounding the problem are undocumented features (such as HTTPOnly),
>and varying behaviors among real-world implementations. 
>
>The working group will create a new RFC that obsoletes RFC 2109 and
>specifies Cookies as they are actually used in existing implementations
>and deployments.  Where differences exist among the most commonly used
>implementations, the working group will document the variations.  Where
>consensus exists among the most commonly used implementations, the
>working group will specify the consensus behavior. 
>
>The working group must not introduce any new syntax or new semantics
>not already in common use. 
>
>The working group's specific deliverables are:
>
>* A standards-track document that is suitable to supersede RFC 2109
>(likely based on draft-abarth-cookie)
>* An informational document cataloguing the differences between major
>implementations  In doing so, the working group should consider: 
>* cookie_spec.html - Netscape Cookie Specification 
>http://web.archive.org/web/20070805052634/http://wp.netscape.com/newsre
>f/std/cookie_spec.html
>* RFC 2109 - HTTP State Management Mechanism (Obsoleted by RFC 2965)   
>http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2109
>* RFC 2964 - Use of HTTP State Management   
>http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2964
>* RFC 2965 - HTTP State Management Mechanism (Obsoletes RFC 2109)   
>http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2965
>* I-D - HTTP State Management Mechanism v2   
>http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-pettersen-cookie-v2
>* I-D - Cookie-based HTTP Authentication   
>http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-broyer-http-cookie-auth
>* Widely Implemented - HTTPOnly   
>http://www.owasp.org/index.php/HTTPOnly
>* Browser Security Handbook - Cookies 
>http://code.google.com/p/browsersec/wiki/Part2#Same-
>origin_policy_for_cookies
>* HTTP Cookies: Standards, Privacy, and Politics by David M. Kristol   
>http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/cs/pdf/0105/0105018v1.pdf 
>
>Goals and Milestones:
> 
>Jan 2010 - Feature-complete Internet-Draft of Cookie specification
>Mar 2010 - Feature-complete test suite of Cookie specification
>May 2010 - First fully conforming implementation in a major browser
>Jul 2010 - Last Call for Cookie specification
>Sep 2010 - Second fully conforming implementation in a major browser
>Nov 2010 - Submit Cookie specification to IESG for consideration as
>           a Draft Standard
>Nov 2010 - Submit deviation description to IESG for consideration as
>           Informational
>_______________________________________________
>IETF-Announce mailing list
>IETF-Announce@ietf.org
>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce


From housley@vigilsec.com  Thu Nov 26 11:04:27 2009
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The changes are primarily editorial, but all of them are based on 
comments from the community.  Further review is welcome.

Russ


>From: IETF I-D Submission Tool <idsubmission@ietf.org>
>To: housley@vigilsec.com
>Cc: tim.polk@nist.gov
>Subject: New Version Notification for draft-housley-saag-crypto-key-table-01
>Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2009 11:01:29 -0800 (PST)
>
>A new version of I-D, draft-housley-saag-crypto-key-table-01.txt has 
>been successfuly submitted by Russ Housley and posted to the IETF repository.
>
>Filename:       draft-housley-saag-crypto-key-table
>Revision:       01
>Title:          Database of Long-Lived Symmetric Cryptographic Keys
>Creation_date:  2009-11-26
>WG ID:          Independent Submission
>Number_of_pages: 7
>
>Abstract:
>This document specifies the information contained in a database of
>long-lived cryptographic keys used by many different security
>protocols.  The database design supports both manual and automated
>key management.  In many instances, the security protocols do not
>directly use the long-lived key, but rather a key derivation function
>is used to derive a short-lived key from a long-lived key.
> 
>
>The IETF Secretariat.


From Pasi.Eronen@nokia.com  Mon Nov 30 01:20:09 2009
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Here's again a short status update about what things are going on from
my point-of-view. If you notice anything that doesn't look right, let
me know -- miscommunication and mix-ups do happen.

Best regards,
Pasi

MISC NOTES
- Edited and posted IETF76 SAAG minutes (thanks to Jim Schaad
  for taking notes!)
- Tools work: completed Django 1.x transition; retired bunch of
  old code; new authentication/authorization code for datatracker.
- I've been asked to sponsor draft-marin-eap-frm-fastreauth; waiting
  for me to take a look and reply to the authors [since 2009-10-26]
- Some discussions about the new-work and secdir mailing lists   =20
  [waiting for Loa since 2009-11-10]
- Some discussions related to IODEF/INCH and ARF.  Waiting for=20
  IETF Trust [since 2009-11-03].

WORKING GROUPS

DKIM
- draft-ietf-dkim-deployment: currently in AD Evaluation
  state, waiting for me to read it [since 2009-10-26]
- Waiting for Stephen and Barry for new charter text (noting that=20
  current work items are completed and adding 4871bis)
- I still need to review what to do about errata 1385, 1532, and 1596,
  and 1942.

EMU
- EMU WG received a new liaison statement from ITU-T about X.1034;=20
  the WG chairs have the token for doing something about it.

IPSECME
- draft-ietf-ipsecme-ikev2-redirect (not wearing AD hat): now
  published as RFC 5685.
- draft-ietf-ipsecme-ikev2-resumption: in RFC editor queue.
- draft-ietf-ipsecme-ikev2-ipv6-config (not wearing AD hat): was
  approved by IESG, now in RFC editor queue.
- draft-ietf-ipsecme-traffic-visibility: waiting for the authors
  to submit a revised ID [since 2009-11-27]
- draft-kanno-ipsecme-camellia-xcbc (not WG item): the authors
  have asked if I would sponsor this as individual submission.
  I've sent some questions to them, and I'm currently waiting
  for their reply [since 2009-10-14]
- I need to look at errata 1937 (for RFC 4307) [since 2009-11-02]

ISMS

KEYPROV
- Apparently waiting for the chairs to send some documents
  my way...

PKIX
- draft-ietf-pkix-sha2-dsa-ecdsa: in RFC editor queue.
- draft-ietf-pkix-rfc4055-update: in RFC editor queue.

SASL
- draft-ietf-sasl-scram: in RFC editor queue, waiting for GS2.
- draft-ietf-sasl-gs2: went through IETF last call; on the agenda=20
  of the 2009-12-03 IESG telechat.
- (not WG item) draft-melnikov-sasl-scram-ldap: was approved by IESG;
  now in RFC editor queue.
- (not WG item) draft-altman-tls-channel-bindings: went through
  IETF last call; delayed due to renegotiation discussions;=20
  currently waiting for me to do something.
 =20

SYSLOG
- draft-ietf-syslog-sign: waiting for Alex to post a revised ID
  to address the DISCUSSes [since 2009-11-26]

TLS
- Did somebody mention renegotiation? (more than 1,000 emails this=20
  month...) Currently waiting for the secretariat to start IETF=20
  Last Call.
- draft-ietf-tls-extractor: waiting for Eric to reply to email
  [since 2009-10-05]; also in AUTH48.
- draft-ietf-tls-rfc4366-bis: it seems we need more text about
  server_name. Currently waiting until the renegotiation fix=20
  progresses.
- (not WG item) see SASL WG for draft-altman-tls-channel-bindings
- (not WG item) draft-mavrogiannopoulos-rfc5081bis: this was submitted
  via the independent submission stream, but procedure-wise, it needs
  to be an IETF stream document. I've offered to sponsor this as
  non-WG document; waiting for the author to submit a revised ID=20
  [since 2009-11-27]

OTHER DOCUMENTS

DISCUSSES (active -- something happened within last month)

- draft-cain-post-inch-phishingextns: waiting for me to =20
  take a look at version -07 [since 2009-11-24]
- draft-ietf-bmwg-ipsec-meth: waiting for authors to submit
  a revised ID [since 2009-10-22]
- draft-ietf-bmwg-ipsec-term: waiting for authors to reply
  to my comments or submit a revised ID [since 2009-10-22]
- draft-ietf-ntp-autokey: waiting for Ralph's proposal on
  how to proceed [since 2009-10-19]
- draft-turner-deviceowner-attribute: waiting for the author
  to submit a revised ID [since 2009-11-18]
- draft-turner-clearancesponsor-attribute: waiting for the author
  to submit a revised ID [since 2009-11-18]

DISCUSSES (stalled -- I haven't heard anything from the authors
or document shepherd for over one month)

- draft-ietf-eai-downgraded-display: discussion ongoing; currently
  waiting for the authors to reply [since 2009-10-26]
- draft-ietf-roll-home-routing-reqs: text agreed, waiting for
  the authors to submit a revised ID [since 2009-10-29]
- draft-ietf-sip-certs: discussion ongoing; currently waiting
  for the authors to reply [since 2009-10-26]
- draft-solinas-rfc4753bis: waiting for authors to reply
  to my comments [since 2009-09-24]

DISCUSSES (presumed dead -- I haven't heard anything from the authors
or document shepherd for over three months)

- draft-cheshire-dnsext-nbp: waiting for authors to reply to my
  comments [since 2008-12-03] (pinged again on 2009-04-30,
  2009-06-09, 2009-10-29)
- draft-ietf-bfd-base: text agreed, waiting for authors to submit=20
  a revised ID [since 2009-03-19] (pinged again on 2009-04-30,
  2009-06-09, 2009-10-29)
- draft-ietf-dime-diameter-api: waiting for Dan to get WG's opinion=20
  on whether this will be useful and if yes, why [since 2009-06-18]
- draft-ietf-sipping-policy-package: waiting for draft-ietf-sipping-
  media-policy-dataset to progress (or more information from Robert)
  [since 2008-10-28]

--end--

