From nobody Wed Aug 8 04:39:15 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: saag@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: saag@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B178A130DD8; Wed, 8 Aug 2018 04:39:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.99 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.99 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_KAM_HTML_FONT_INVALID=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=bdr.de Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3ZqPACisu_An; Wed, 8 Aug 2018 04:39:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailout01.bdr.de (mailout01.bdr.de [193.28.64.249]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1F0BE129C6A; Wed, 8 Aug 2018 04:39:01 -0700 (PDT) From: "Wirth, Klaus-Dieter" DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bdr.de; s=default; t=1533728339; bh=unKHXO5OYS3slFzoamHuPAlHxy59N5E6/fqA20pdRpA=; h=From:To:CC:Subject:Date:References:In-Reply-To:From; b=Q/Fvi18BecVtuZKCBGKaluIi6hqeunJHuzfhMXLIGgukqCHe2wFb3JNYM2R2eoI6l zsT9eM1MloKeIpi3QW05FyMuBckr6/vkBR9ixTA7QD3FtElpdk4ShqSatMU48CGIbH MLHUatUl3kBLcLn0xHMjkwy1fCLTeOwC/uf9UsGg= To: "Dr. Pala" , "saag@ietf.org" , PKIX , "cfrg@irtf.org" CC: "Nguyen Dr., Kim" , "Byszio, Frank" Thread-Topic: [pkix] Applied Quantum Resistant Crypto Thread-Index: AQHUHgZbsh8nSK1JHUu6lOqIACMriaS11+dQ Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2018 11:38:58 +0000 Message-ID: <2062ca213ff94c1a8a126dc74b019130@bkmxp07.bdr.de> References: <42efe1a4-0532-dbb0-a21a-10120f6656b3@openca.org> In-Reply-To: <42efe1a4-0532-dbb0-a21a-10120f6656b3@openca.org> Accept-Language: de-DE, en-US Content-Language: de-DE 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([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id P5DM97V9LjHd for ; Tue, 14 Aug 2018 07:12:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x22e.google.com (mail-wm0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::22e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4122512777C for ; Tue, 14 Aug 2018 07:12:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x22e.google.com with SMTP id o11-v6so12386863wmh.2 for ; Tue, 14 Aug 2018 07:12:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=Ci7nzrZCBQ6TLZjju/RV7B3am7JuvweJBSBq90QrOyY=; b=ubhCAsIjXWwIwJUsHRaTNUfswMWM9LKqkiWu2X+zbYh6NTbFQ8Bf8MQAq5isRwVsez fx/V9CdDKjVlzeczi2jrJoskOY2e+4A0XVzp7axQeNnrLkasvPYH4JbToUQ0GdWHOKqS GDx1iwnHuDgRSe4KHqGwpYmPVdM0WmE/NbwLIQbhQajI79m9JHmdmMU4woAMQyKQVIMg 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a2-v6mr11946722wma.52.1534255919613; Tue, 14 Aug 2018 07:11:59 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:adf:ef8f:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Tue, 14 Aug 2018 07:11:59 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: sarikaya@ieee.org From: Behcet Sarikaya Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2018 09:11:59 -0500 Message-ID: To: saag@ietf.org Cc: Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000154bc8057365cbf4" Archived-At: Subject: [saag] New Non-WG Mailing List: PidLoc X-BeenThere: saag@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Security Area Advisory Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2018 14:12:03 -0000 --000000000000154bc8057365cbf4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" A new IETF non-working group email list has been created. List address: PIdLoc@ietf.org Archive: https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/pidloc/ To subscribe: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pidloc Purpose: In IdLoc protocols like LISP, ILA, etc. separation between (fixed) Identifier and (dynamic) Location is proposed to find optimum path for data packets to/from moving devices The threats against privacy in IdLoc protocols include location privacy where if a third party can at any time determine the IP location of some identifier, then the device can at one point be IP geolocated and movement privacy where if a third party can determine that an identifier has changed locator(s) at time T, then even without knowing the particular locators before and after, it can correlate this movement event with other information to create a binding between the identifier and a person. Privacy and security work is needed both in control and data plane There is an existing draft https://www.ietf.org/id/ draft-nordmark-id-loc-privacy-00.txt that is expected to serve as a starting point. The work is expected to clear the way for a wider acceptance/deployment of IdLoc protocol. This may open new application areas such as in future mobile networks. In future mobile networks more efficient differentiation of packet handling according to specific service demands (QoS) are expected. Traditional tunneling and encapsulation between IP addresses (= Id and/or Loc) have disadvantages --000000000000154bc8057365cbf4 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


A new IETF non-working = group email list has been created.

List address: PIdLoc@ietf.org
Archive: https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/br= owse/pidloc/
To subscribe: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinf= o/pidloc

Purpose:
=C2=A0In IdLoc protocols like LISP, ILA, etc.=C2=A0 separation between (fix= ed)
Identifier and (dynamic) Location is proposed to find optimum path for data=
packets to/from moving devices

The threats against privacy in IdLoc protocols include

location privacy where if a third party can at any time determine the IP location of some identifier, then the device can at one point be IP
geolocated and

movement privacy where if a third party can determine that an identifier has changed locator(s) at time T, then even without knowing the
particular locators
before and after, it can correlate this movement event with other
information to create a binding between the identifier and a person.

Privacy and security work is needed both in control and data plane

There is an existing draft https://www.ietf.org/id/
draft-nordmark-id-loc-privacy-00.txt that is expected to serve as a starting point.

The work is expected to clear the way for a wider acceptance/deployment
of IdLoc protocol. This may open new application areas such as in future mobile networks.

In future mobile networks more efficient differentiation of packet
handling according to specific service demands (QoS) are expected. Traditio= nal
tunneling and encapsulation between IP addresses (=3D Id and/or Loc) have disadvantages

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Return-Path: X-Original-To: saag@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: saag@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93B02130EE1 for ; Thu, 23 Aug 2018 12:16:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.19 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.19 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_FILL_THIS_FORM_SHORT=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id f5fzpN_rWtsM for ; Thu, 23 Aug 2018 12:16:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx1.redhat.com (mx3-rdu2.redhat.com [66.187.233.73]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B29B1130E01 for ; Thu, 23 Aug 2018 12:16:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.corp.redhat.com (int-mx03.intmail.prod.int.rdu2.redhat.com [10.11.54.3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D69147DAC9; Thu, 23 Aug 2018 19:16:09 +0000 (UTC) Received: from bofh7.nohats.ca (ovpn-204-99.brq.redhat.com [10.40.204.99]) by smtp.corp.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C58951054EF6; Thu, 23 Aug 2018 19:16:08 +0000 (UTC) To: Yakov Shafranovich , Security Area Advisory Group References: <153175762490.21882.4224015836645470223.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Paul Wouters Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Message-ID: <5869dfb7-f12b-b7b8-7353-bcf63859436b@redhat.com> Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2018 15:16:07 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.78 on 10.11.54.3 X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.5.16 (mx1.redhat.com [10.11.55.2]); Thu, 23 Aug 2018 19:16:09 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: inspected by milter-greylist-4.5.16 (mx1.redhat.com [10.11.55.2]); Thu, 23 Aug 2018 19:16:09 +0000 (UTC) for IP:'10.11.54.3' DOMAIN:'int-mx03.intmail.prod.int.rdu2.redhat.com' HELO:'smtp.corp.redhat.com' FROM:'pwouters@redhat.com' RCPT:'' Archived-At: Subject: Re: [saag] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-foudil-securitytxt-04.txt X-BeenThere: saag@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Security Area Advisory Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2018 19:16:14 -0000 On 07/16/2018 04:32 PM, Yakov Shafranovich wrote: > A new version of I-D, draft-foudil-securitytxt-04.txt > has been successfully submitted by Edwin Foudil and posted to the > IETF repository. > URL: > https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-foudil-securitytxt-04.txt > Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-foudil-securitytxt/ > Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-foudil-securitytxt-04 > Htmlized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-foudil-securitytxt > Diff: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-foudil-securitytxt-04 All my existing concerns still applies and it might even be worse now. Section 3.4.1 basically suggests building a list of fixed vulnerabilities with the acknowledgments section. So now hackers can scan for which servers haven't been patched for something. Especially valuable if 9 out of 10 servers in the company have some acknowledgment but one of these does not. 3.4.3 is still terrible. If a server is compromised and security.txt is changed to the hackers PGP key, then ONLY the hackers are informed if someone is close to catching them. The real operators wont even be able to read the message. And this advise does not belong in an IETF document: If this directive indicates a web URL, then it MUST be begin with "https://" with the entire world being https, this gives a false sense of security. The paragraphs also forms a nice Inception loop. What is the host that is hosting the security key itself publishes a security.txt file. And why does it even matter in the first place if it is http or https, unless the person who found the compromised website themselves are compromised? When it comes to verifying the authenticity of the key, it is always the security researcher's responsibility to make sure the key being specified is indeed one they trust. So we pretend to offer a new "secure" method for finding a security contact, then say "dont ever trust this". So why specify this at all? 3.4.4 Hiring ? What are we now. a new Linked In protocol extension ? 3.4.7 signature file I have no idea why it has to be external and not inline, which is the typical PGP/GPG way 6 Security Considerations To me this reads like all the reasons why all of this is a bad idea. But now people like me who would never deploy this need to be aware of all of this because my compromised server might add a security.txt file misleading people so they will never contact me. It's a burden on those who don't want to implement this unwise idea. Anyway, the essence still remains. If I find a hacked server, I should not trust that server for anything in provides. Instead, I should find another resource that will hopefully still be trustworthy to find a contact. A number of superiors ways: - Mail to the dns contact(s) of the domain based on SOA record email or WHOIS/RDAP data - Mail to the contact configured in the 40x errors on the http server (lets hope hackers only got into /var/www and not /etc/httpd) - google "security " - go to linked in, find someone in IT in that company and ping them - find a twitter account or facebook page of the company - check any of the security groups/cabals ( eg ops-trust) All these methods are more trustworthy then a text file on a compromised server. And even the draft says to not trust it so you end up having to do one of these anyway. So I don't see it add any value at all. And if I was a hacker that compromised the server, I would surely delete or modify this file, or make it throw an error serving it. Another alternative approach is to add a field to the webservers certificate that contains a contact email/phone field. An attacker won't be able to modify this data without killing the certificate's CA signature. But that might be less useful now than in the past if the attacker can just ACME a new one. I still think this document should not move forward, and believe it might cause more damage instead of making finding security contacts more reliable. Paul From nobody Thu Aug 23 17:55:44 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: saag@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: saag@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B39CC130F86 for ; Thu, 23 Aug 2018 17:55:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.01, T_FILL_THIS_FORM_SHORT=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=nightwatchcybersecurity-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5pCt4ATrxMvQ for ; Thu, 23 Aug 2018 17:55:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pl1-x629.google.com (mail-pl1-x629.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::629]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D6B72130F84 for ; Thu, 23 Aug 2018 17:55:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pl1-x629.google.com with SMTP id ba4-v6so325557plb.11 for ; Thu, 23 Aug 2018 17:55:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=nightwatchcybersecurity-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=D8wawZjme9j/CV1qbStiGmZOwoJqSF5mbsYr5YuT56I=; b=PNcmUNnJszwja9AitE2uJPimpB10WbhUnVm9lnURcwK+40xWa8RtDuNZt68P5SQW3e tFtq7uogt7geNG+KOQ9D4541Zq+tYThj/e4cWkQvdJgFmZBe9OJBY7ADcsP1CagC65xJ xgJyEwxnjziAmxzqpmVUp0pg+t6THhMVEYNFioC1Yz1uJErAq43225EtAeElNeJCR4sc xQT5toM5jiaiNp0oCcF4pU8If8FZ0IcjU/wsz1cp+gIAD6nFB1ulYI42DsLzhBj8CReT R5oJB9u6qUSy74AeJh9Mpht+RHj9UvhFl1pQTtFKh8Y/tbQnLcwvo+yCwLw+razs1R20 C+eQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=D8wawZjme9j/CV1qbStiGmZOwoJqSF5mbsYr5YuT56I=; b=uR/DRs3pKd1d+LEdJmSIT5GegI6qhrygw2hsprcGKaVLSNCsZztlCE1o1gzyU9EZli vnXu02Hb7IO1g90MyOiYXXwusZVtb+zSsY9PBO9vh6OcejwW23ttj7lJZTRCALsYZ5+v Zt4M282a48IoP5MY1F9MXMOTRz84JcM54VkT0n4ffJMX0M9Ba3uh1z6gwT2N8oXnLx/Q SST/LVkFwM/sSwauKXjrsnkJ7JT6kpjWzaJTaT+cDUOvcKiex+0zYBf3azYlbQdGq/Im xTGs3TCHwTGobiUje69gcDM/Es0OVmoXSZIznj3zWlkvhzTqxayL9ghObS26ZJCUeYNd rC0g== X-Gm-Message-State: AOUpUlEXvDfOWnDB+TS0kj7ja0SUXTBuyaMfVVYm8htY5ZoOcSg6elUv Uu5meSZDErWrku/1kU7fZHh3jYy+7SEj/VUQHBPFAQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AA+uWPz9mOfrcHDG/7RiYo+ifhETxdV9dWI+/HnPEEtqSZBk4i5LEBXkNi8YaE7+wTPvh6n30ttCljUlGuim+nxCul8= X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:710c:: with SMTP id a12-v6mr22618199pll.28.1535072140233; Thu, 23 Aug 2018 17:55:40 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a17:90a:ae18:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Thu, 23 Aug 2018 17:54:59 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <5869dfb7-f12b-b7b8-7353-bcf63859436b@redhat.com> References: <153175762490.21882.4224015836645470223.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <5869dfb7-f12b-b7b8-7353-bcf63859436b@redhat.com> From: Yakov Shafranovich Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2018 20:54:59 -0400 Message-ID: To: Paul Wouters Cc: Security Area Advisory Group , Ed Overflow Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [saag] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-foudil-securitytxt-04.txt X-BeenThere: saag@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Security Area Advisory Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2018 00:55:43 -0000 Draft: https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-foudil-securitytxt-04.txt On Thu, Aug 23, 2018 at 3:16 PM, Paul Wouters wrote: > On 07/16/2018 04:32 PM, Yakov Shafranovich wrote: > > All my existing concerns still applies and it might even be worse now. > > Section 3.4.1 basically suggests building a list of fixed vulnerabilities with the acknowledgments section. So now hackers can scan for which servers haven't > been patched for something. Especially valuable if 9 out of 10 servers in the company have some acknowledgment but one of these does not. > I am confused here. An acknowledgment section doesn't usually list the actual vulnerabilities, it just thanks people. Here are some examples: https://www.google.com/about/appsecurity/hall-of-fame/ https://access.redhat.com/articles/66234 https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/msrc/researcher-acknowledgments-online-services Even the example in the draft is using very generic language like "SQL injection or "server configuration issue" without actually specifying enough details for someone to attack further. Are you suggesting that this section be removed, or is your concern specifically with the example provided? > 3.4.3 is still terrible. If a server is compromised and security.txt is changed to the hackers PGP key, then ONLY the hackers are informed if someone is close > to catching them. The real operators wont even be able to read the message. > We are still working out details around both the digital signature on the file itself and the encryption key it is pointing to. > And this advise does not belong in an IETF document: > > If this directive indicates a web URL, then it MUST be begin with "https://" > > with the entire world being https, this gives a false sense of security. The paragraphs also forms a nice Inception loop. What is the host that is hosting > the security key itself publishes a security.txt file. And why does it even matter in the first place if it is http or https, unless the person who found > the compromised website themselves are compromised? > This is included because this field is a URI and that reference a DNS record or a fingerprint as seen in the examples provided in the draft. The intent is specifically to say that you should use SSL for the web URIs, since HTTPS won't make sense in the context of other protocols. > When it comes to verifying the authenticity of the key, it is always > the security researcher's responsibility to make sure the key being > specified is indeed one they trust. > > So we pretend to offer a new "secure" method for finding a security contact, then say "dont ever trust this". So why specify this at all? > > 3.4.4 Hiring ? > > What are we now. a new Linked In protocol extension ? > This is documenting existing usage. Once companies started adopting the standard they were adding this header in, and we wanted to simply document it. > 3.4.7 signature file > > I have no idea why it has to be external and not inline, which is the typical PGP/GPG way > We are currently discussing this as well. The original thought behind having an external key was intended as a way to make this extensible enough so it can support other signature schemes in the future. But there is probably a way to make this work inline while keeping this extensible. > 6 Security Considerations > > To me this reads like all the reasons why all of this is a bad idea. But now people like me who would never deploy this need to be aware of all of > this because my compromised server might add a security.txt file misleading people so they will never contact me. It's a burden on those who don't > want to implement this unwise idea. > > > Anyway, the essence still remains. If I find a hacked server, I should not trust that server for anything in provides. Instead, I should find another > resource that will hopefully still be trustworthy to find a contact. A number of superiors ways: > If someone compromises a webserver, security.txt is probably not something they would be targeting. > - Mail to the dns contact(s) of the domain based on SOA record email or WHOIS/RDAP data > - Mail to the contact configured in the 40x errors on the http server (lets hope hackers only got into /var/www and not /etc/httpd) > - google "security " > - go to linked in, find someone in IT in that company and ping them > - find a twitter account or facebook page of the company > - check any of the security groups/cabals ( eg ops-trust) > > All these methods are more trustworthy then a text file on a compromised server. And even the draft says to not trust it so you end up having to do > one of these anyway. So I don't see it add any value at all. > Having been on both sides of the disclosure process (sending reports and receiving them), I can say that none of the current ways to figure out whom to contact work well. The intent of this document is very specific - it is intended to essentially make a machine-readable equivalent of a "security HTML" page and place it in a standard location of a webspace. From the feedback we have received so far, it seems that placing a file in a webspace seems to be easier than doing DNS. RDAP or email because the various teams are often not the same ones as the ones handling security reports. > And if I was a hacker that compromised the server, I would surely delete or modify this file, or make it throw an error serving it. > > Another alternative approach is to add a field to the webservers certificate that contains a contact email/phone field. An attacker won't be able > to modify this data without killing the certificate's CA signature. But that might be less useful now than in the past if the attacker can just ACME a new one. > That is true for a lot of the other methods described above as well. One of the things we are exploring is having monitoring of these files, conceptually similar to the certificate transparency. It is also an open question of what is the actual likelihood of this happening in the real world and the risk vs. the value provided by this proposal. > I still think this document should not move forward, and believe it might cause more damage instead of making finding security contacts more reliable. > Thank you for your feedback, it is appreciated.