From sam-bounces@ietf.org Thu Apr 24 13:08:05 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sam-archive@optimus.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-sam-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89D423A6BF4; Thu, 24 Apr 2008 13:08:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: sam@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: sam@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3104D3A6BF4 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2008 13:08:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.348 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.348 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.001, INVALID_MSGID=1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, SARE_OBFU_ALL=0.751] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zv-aP0rAzs7h for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2008 13:08:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ll.mit.edu (LLMAIL1.LL.MIT.EDU [129.55.12.41]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DCD73A6AC2 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2008 13:08:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from smtp@localhost) by ll.mit.edu (8.12.10/8.8.8) id m3OK80iw028751 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2008 16:08:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from vpn-239-27.llan.ll.mit.edu( ), claiming to be "[155.34.65.24]" via SMTP by llpost, id smtpdAAA93aOy3; Thu Apr 24 16:07:14 2008 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 16:07:08 -0400 To: SAM RG From: Jeremy Mineweaser Subject: [SAM] Minutes of Meeting at IETF 71 X-BeenThere: sam@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "For use by members of the Scalable Adaptive Multicast \(SAM\) RG" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sam-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: sam-bounces@ietf.org All, Minutes of the SAM RG meeting at IETF 71 are online at http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/08mar/minutes/SAMRG.txt -- Jeremy -- Jeremy Mineweaser Technical Staff Group 65, Advanced Networks and Applications MIT Lincoln Laboratory 781-981-4230 jlm@ll.mit.edu _______________________________________________ SAM mailing list SAM@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sam From sam-bounces@ietf.org Tue Apr 29 17:05:59 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sam-archive@optimus.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-sam-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 542BF3A6D22; Tue, 29 Apr 2008 17:05:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: sam@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: sam@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EBFF3A6D1C for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2008 17:05:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -100.39 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-100.39 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_20=-0.74, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id V5grllCiSDyO for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2008 17:05:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail2.rz.fhtw-berlin.de (mail2.rz.fhtw-berlin.de [141.45.10.102]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A0AD3A6C6F for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2008 17:05:56 -0700 (PDT) Envelope-to: sam@irtf.org Received: from e178177060.adsl.alicedsl.de ([85.178.177.60] helo=mw-thinkpad) by mail2.rz.fhtw-berlin.de with esmtpsa (TLSv1:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Jqzpb-000IRD-AV for sam@irtf.org; Wed, 30 Apr 2008 02:05:55 +0200 Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 02:05:42 +0200 From: Matthias Waehlisch To: sam Message-ID: X-X-Sender: mw@mail2.rz.fhtw-berlin.de MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: [SAM] SAM Overlay Protocol X-BeenThere: sam@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "For use by members of the Scalable Adaptive Multicast \(SAM\) RG" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sam-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: sam-bounces@ietf.org Hi John, just one short remark to draft-buford-irtf-sam-overlay-protocol-01.txt: The GroupId in the tree lifecycle messages identifies "the overlay address of the root of the tree". Although the term is almost used in this sense, it is not true in general. Two examples: CAN multicast and the prefix-based bidirectional shared tree approach, which we presented in Chicago. Maybe we can rename the description to "the overlay group address". Cheers matthias -- Matthias Waehlisch :. HAW Hamburg, Dept. Informatik :. link-lab :. Berliner Tor 7, 20099 Hamburg :. Hoenower Str. 35, 10318 Berlin :. Germany, mailto:waehlisch@ieee.org :. Germany, mailto:mw@link-lab.net :. http://home.fhtw-berlin.de/~mw :. http://www.link-lab.net :. :. FU Berlin, Inst. Informatik, Berlin, Germany http://www.mi.fu-berlin.de _______________________________________________ SAM mailing list SAM@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sam From sam-bounces@ietf.org Tue Apr 29 18:22:05 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sam-archive@optimus.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-sam-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B63133A6889; Tue, 29 Apr 2008 18:22:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: sam@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: sam@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DCDF3A6AF7 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2008 18:22:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.976 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.976 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ICxxwGyK2lnT for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2008 18:22:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from an-out-0708.google.com (an-out-0708.google.com [209.85.132.242]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87B123A6BE7 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2008 18:21:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id b33so30063ana.20 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2008 18:21:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:sender:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references:x-google-sender-auth; bh=jOzjktROYUFTft3agvLGVVqqgcwQy1dZekqgowYSA4s=; b=e3ennL0wXeTNtICvxAx4gxnFUMyqmcnZabqUParNEMgj5xx6LSfmIZjZ7xHCNqd15Qv0mqd58xXR5ry7EYP5Jf6UpbmPnRqZTBw+W9IfVC7xdbLAMCqba26+p8H5I2WJBJ1jD7lmX/aChHk1r47w71V+vWrSH9ejbAfXjs5YhNM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:reply-to:sender:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references:x-google-sender-auth; b=J2SofIrRGsgcLQyTzJCL8HdsAFwUVkdoABOC9wJ+lmVsV6qagNbaCYo5N38YyZ/4+j2AudakZ3qcaaKq+TekDRICWkKBREa2+Q2mqnFwxfLdeydXoTXYVf8u4Ml/mqradky+tjohEVPFjvM3AHdGV2xAkItE0MReyXS/WjuG/1A= Received: by 10.100.14.2 with SMTP id 2mr201314ann.37.1209518506434; Tue, 29 Apr 2008 18:21:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.100.93.9 with HTTP; Tue, 29 Apr 2008 18:21:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4ce32a820804291821r62d2aeafk8d3015e3f4077c@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 21:21:46 -0400 From: "John Buford" To: "Matthias Waehlisch" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 References: X-Google-Sender-Auth: 85a52f1c9e8ddf56 Cc: sam Subject: Re: [SAM] SAM Overlay Protocol X-BeenThere: sam@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list Reply-To: buford@samrg.org List-Id: "For use by members of the Scalable Adaptive Multicast \(SAM\) RG" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0810572327==" Sender: sam-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: sam-bounces@ietf.org --===============0810572327== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_6424_13957873.1209518506421" ------=_Part_6424_13957873.1209518506421 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Hi Matthias, Isn't "overlay group address" somewhat circular? Could you explain in more detail the problem with the current text? Are you saying there are instances where the groupId isn't the root of the tree? Thanks, John On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 8:05 PM, Matthias Waehlisch wrote: > Hi John, > > just one short remark to draft-buford-irtf-sam-overlay-protocol-01.txt: > > The GroupId in the tree lifecycle messages identifies "the overlay > address of the root of the tree". Although the term is almost used in this > sense, it is not true in general. Two examples: CAN multicast and the > prefix-based bidirectional shared tree approach, which we presented in > Chicago. > > Maybe we can rename the description to "the overlay group address". > > > Cheers > matthias > > > -- > Matthias Waehlisch > :. HAW Hamburg, Dept. Informatik :. link-lab > :. Berliner Tor 7, 20099 Hamburg :. Hoenower Str. 35, 10318 Berlin > :. Germany, mailto:waehlisch@ieee.org :. Germany, mailto:mw@link-lab.net > :. http://home.fhtw-berlin.de/~mw :. http://www.link-lab.net > :. > :. FU Berlin, Inst. Informatik, Berlin, Germany http://www.mi.fu-berlin.de > _______________________________________________ > SAM mailing list > SAM@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sam > ------=_Part_6424_13957873.1209518506421 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline
Hi Matthias,
Isn't "overlay group address" somewhat circular?
Could you explain in more detail the problem with the current
text?  Are you saying there are instances where the groupId isn't
the root of the tree?
Thanks,
John

On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 8:05 PM, Matthias Waehlisch <waehlisch@ieee.org> wrote:
Hi John,

 just one short remark to draft-buford-irtf-sam-overlay-protocol-01.txt:

 The GroupId in the tree lifecycle messages identifies "the overlay
address of the root of the tree". Although the term is almost used in this
sense, it is not true in general. Two examples: CAN multicast and the
prefix-based bidirectional shared tree approach, which we presented in
Chicago.

 Maybe we can rename the description to "the overlay group address".


Cheers
 matthias


--
Matthias Waehlisch
:. HAW Hamburg, Dept. Informatik       :. link-lab
:. Berliner Tor 7, 20099 Hamburg       :. Hoenower Str. 35, 10318 Berlin
:. Germany, mailto:waehlisch@ieee.org  :. Germany, mailto:mw@link-lab.net
:. http://home.fhtw-berlin.de/~mw      :. http://www.link-lab.net
:.
:. FU Berlin, Inst. Informatik, Berlin, Germany http://www.mi.fu-berlin.de
_______________________________________________
SAM mailing list
SAM@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sam


------=_Part_6424_13957873.1209518506421-- --===============0810572327== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ SAM mailing list SAM@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sam --===============0810572327==-- From sam-bounces@ietf.org Wed Apr 30 00:48:29 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sam-archive@optimus.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-sam-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B86328C1C2; Wed, 30 Apr 2008 00:48:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: sam@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: sam@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFF893A6D48 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2008 00:48:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.32 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.32 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.929, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1Ye8cSsppYqn for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2008 00:48:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail2.rz.fhtw-berlin.de (mail2.rz.fhtw-berlin.de [141.45.10.102]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 558B428C1C2 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2008 00:48:25 -0700 (PDT) Envelope-to: sam@irtf.org Received: from e178131016.adsl.alicedsl.de ([85.178.131.16] helo=mw-thinkpad) by mail2.rz.fhtw-berlin.de with esmtpsa (TLSv1:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Jr73C-000Eek-Kt; Wed, 30 Apr 2008 09:48:27 +0200 Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 09:48:13 +0200 From: Matthias Waehlisch To: John Buford In-Reply-To: <4ce32a820804291821r62d2aeafk8d3015e3f4077c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: References: <4ce32a820804291821r62d2aeafk8d3015e3f4077c@mail.gmail.com> X-X-Sender: mw@mail2.rz.fhtw-berlin.de MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: sam Subject: Re: [SAM] SAM Overlay Protocol X-BeenThere: sam@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "For use by members of the Scalable Adaptive Multicast \(SAM\) RG" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sam-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: sam-bounces@ietf.org Hi John, On Tue, 29 Apr 2008, John Buford wrote: > Isn't "overlay group address" somewhat circular? > why? There is an underlay and overlay group address. And there are overlay PeerIds ... Overlay address seems to me a bit unspecified in the context of multicast. > Could you explain in more detail the problem with the current > text? Are you saying there are instances where the groupId isn't > the root of the tree? > Yes, one example for this is CAN multicast. The group address in CAN is used to address the bootstrap peer. Based on this, the mini CAN will be constructed. However, data distribution is based on flooding the mini CAN. As far as I understand: Each member of the mini CAN may be inherently a source. Another approach is the bidirectional shared distribution tree, which we sketched in Chicago http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/07jul/slides/SAMRG-3.pdf (for the paper cf. http://www.realmv6.org/bib/ws-buode-07.html) and elaborate at the moment. Thanks matthias -- Matthias Waehlisch :. HAW Hamburg, Dept. Informatik :. link-lab :. Berliner Tor 7, 20099 Hamburg :. Hoenower Str. 35, 10318 Berlin :. Germany, mailto:waehlisch@ieee.org :. Germany, mailto:mw@link-lab.net :. http://home.fhtw-berlin.de/~mw :. http://www.link-lab.net :. :. FU Berlin, Inst. Informatik, Berlin, Germany http://www.mi.fu-berlin.de _______________________________________________ SAM mailing list SAM@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sam