From abara2000@post.com Thu May 1 07:39:19 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA05526 for ; Thu, 1 May 2003 07:39:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19BCRA-0000KV-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 01 May 2003 07:41:16 -0400 Received: from sj-core-1.cisco.com ([171.71.177.237]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19BCR4-0000KL-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 01 May 2003 07:41:10 -0400 Received: from sj-msg-av-2.cisco.com (sj-msg-av-2.cisco.com [171.70.145.31]) by sj-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h41BDLLr022416 for ; Thu, 1 May 2003 04:13:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from proxy1.cisco.com (proxy1.cisco.com [128.107.241.179]) by sj-msg-av-2.cisco.com (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h41BD3Qn007495 for ; Thu, 1 May 2003 04:13:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from post85.com (node-c-1797.a2000.nl [62.194.23.151]) by proxy1.cisco.com (8.12.8p1/8.11.2) with SMTP id h41BD2wP015128 for ; Thu, 1 May 2003 04:13:13 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <200305011113.h41BD2wP015128@proxy1.cisco.com> From: VICENT EKOLO To: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Reply-To: vicekolo@post.com Subject: URGENT BUSINESS PROPOSAL Date: Thu, 01 May 2003 19:16:02 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="87c77f50-3d35-4bb7-a51e-9c1a23b9baed" This is a multi-part message in MIME format --87c77f50-3d35-4bb7-a51e-9c1a23b9baed Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Friend We are soliciting for your interest to help us transfer the sum of US$56,000,000.00 (Fifty Six Million United States Dollars) into an existing bank account or to set up a new bank account immediately to receive this money. Even an empty account can serve to recieve this money. We need somebody whom we can repose aboundance of trust and as well to see the logical end of the transaction. As soon as this confidence is registered we can commence in earnest and strive to conclude within the shortest possible time. I am Mr Vicent Ekolo the Auditor General of a bank in Africa, during the course of our auditing I discovered a floating fund in an account opened in the bank in 1991 and since 1994 nobody has operated on this account again, after going through some old files in the records. I discovered that the owner of the account died without a [heir] hence the money is floating and if I do not remit this money out urgently it will be forfeited for nothing. The owner of this account is Mr. Frednard Wright, a foreigner, and a sailor, and he died on the on the 23rd of August 1994, and no other person knows about this account or any thing concerning it, the account has no other beneficiary. My investigation proved to me as well that Mr Frednard Wright until his death was the manager Wright Coy.(pty) We intend to make initial transfer of Twenty million [US$20,000.000]. Upon successful transaction without any disappointment from your side, we shall re-apply for the payment of the remaining amount into your account. I am contacting you as a foreigner and as a partner because this money can not be approved to an indigine. With my position in the bank, officially we can transfer this money to any foreign reliable account which you can provide with assurance that this money will be intact pending our arrival in your country for sharing. The bank official will destroy all documents of transaction immediately we receive this money leaving no trace to any place. We offer to give you 20% of the total sum, while 5% will be for expenses incurred by both parties. Sincerely yours, Vicent Ekolo --87c77f50-3d35-4bb7-a51e-9c1a23b9baed-- From stacyeric@aol.com Thu May 1 15:10:04 2003 Received: from sj-core-2.cisco.com (sj-core-2.cisco.com [171.71.177.254]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA00571 for ; Thu, 1 May 2003 15:10:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sj-msg-av-2.cisco.com (sj-msg-av-2.cisco.com [171.70.145.31]) by sj-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h41IlPxI004832 for ; Thu, 1 May 2003 11:47:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from proxy1.cisco.com (proxy1.cisco.com [128.107.241.179]) by sj-msg-av-2.cisco.com (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h41Il6Qn007780 for ; Thu, 1 May 2003 11:47:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 3.102.81.219.isp.tfn.net.tw (3.102.81.219.isp.tfn.net.tw [219.81.102.3]) by proxy1.cisco.com (8.12.8p1/8.11.2) with SMTP id h41IlEZH012861 for ; Thu, 1 May 2003 11:47:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jn.3a344.org (HELO vc7wah) [23.225.160.239] by 3.102.81.219.isp.tfn.net.tw with ESMTP id 4FB40E65B9C; Thu, 01 May 2003 17:46:25 -0200 Message-ID: From: "Abraham Hartman" To: Subject: [Spam] Prescrition weight loss .................. correspond Date: Thu, 01 May 03 17:46:25 GMT X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="1EFEF.1_D03148" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAgBIIwoASic6 X-SPAM: Yes This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --1EFEF.1_D03148 Content-Type: text/html; Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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--1EFEF.1_D03148-- From gueilambert70@netscape.net Thu May 1 16:08:23 2003 Received: from sj-core-5.cisco.com (sj-core-5.cisco.com [171.71.177.238]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA06703 for ; Thu, 1 May 2003 16:08:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sj-msg-av-1.cisco.com (sj-msg-av-1.cisco.com [171.69.11.151]) by sj-core-5.cisco.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h3UG2ZIP010597 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 09:02:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from proxy1.cisco.com (proxy1.cisco.com [128.107.241.179]) by sj-msg-av-1.cisco.com (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h3UG2YXo017317 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 09:02:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from netscape930.com (node-c-3c3a.a2000.nl [62.194.60.58]) by proxy1.cisco.com (8.12.8p1/8.11.2) with SMTP id h3UG2IwP001974 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 09:02:20 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <200304301602.h3UG2IwP001974@proxy1.cisco.com> From: "LAMBERT GUEI." To: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Reply-To: gueilambert80@netscape.net Subject: [Spam] PLEASE ENDEAVOUR TO GET BACK TO ME Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 09:02:21 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="2840f2fb-16fc-4a3e-93f5-c82ea083ac29" X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQBJeOM= X-SPAM: Yes This is a multi-part message in MIME format --2840f2fb-16fc-4a3e-93f5-c82ea083ac29 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable DR. LAMBERT GUEI. AMSTERDAM,THE NETHERLANDS. E-MAIL:gueilambert80@netscape.net DEAR SIR, I AM DR. LAMBERT GUEI, THE ONLY SURVIVING SON OF LATE ROBERT GUEI EX-MILITARY HEAD OF STATE OF IVORY COAST, WHO WAS MURDERED ALONG WITH THE INTERIOR MINISTER ON THE 19TH OF SEPTEMBER2002. I CONTACTED YOU BECAUSE OF MY NEED TO DEAL WITH PERSONS WHICH MY FAMILY AND I HAVE HAD NO PREVIOUS PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP WITH. SINCE THE MURDER OF MY ENTIRE FAMILY, I HAVE BEEN SUBJECTED TO ALL SORTS OF HARRASMENT AND INTIMIDATION WITH LOTS OF NEGATIVE REPORT EMANATING FROM THE GOVERNMENT AND THE PRESS ABOUT MY FAMILY. THE PRESENT GOVERNMENT OF LAURENT GBAGBO HAS ALSO ENSURED THAT OUR BANK ACCOUNTS ARE FROZEN AND ALL ASSETS SEIZED. IT IS IN VIEW OF THIS, THAT I SEEK YOUR CORPORATION AND ASSISTANCE IN THE TRANSFER OF THE SUM OF TWENTY SEVEN MILLION UNITED STATES DOLLARS(US$27,000,000.00.)BEING THE VERY LAST OF MY FAMILY FUND IN MY POSSESSION AND CONTROL. AFTER THE MURDER OF MY FATHER, THE PRESENT GOVERNMENT SEIZED ALL OUR PROPERTIES AND FROZE ALL OUR ACCOUNTS BOTH LOCAL AND INTERNATIONAL. MY ONLY HOPE NOW, IS THIS CASH, MY FATHER CAREFULLY PACKAGED AS ARTIFACTS WITH A SECURITY AND FINANCE COMPANY OUTSIDE IVORY COAST. THIS SUM OF US$27M CAN EASILY BE WITHDRAWN OR PAID TO A RECOMMENDED BENEFICIARY. THE SECURITY COMPANY BASED ON MY INSTRUCTION WILL RELEASE THE FUND TO YOU. YOU ARE TO BE PRESENTED AS MY BUSINESS PARTNER WHO WILL BE FRONTING FOR ME IN SUBSEQUENT VENTURES AND IN TRUTH YOU WILL BE FRONTING FOR ME, IN THE AREAS OF BUSINESS YOU DEEM PROFITABLE. TO SHOW MY PREPAREDNESS AND APPRECIATION TO CONDUCT THIS WITH YOU, I SHALL GIVE YOU AND YOUR FAMILY 20% OF THE TOTAL FUND AND 10%FOR ALL THE EXPENSES INCURRED DURING THIS TRANSACTION ALSO 5%WILL BE FOR YOU ON ANY PROFIT REALISED FROM THE INVESTMENT OF THIS FUND IN YOUR COUNTRY, WHILE 70%WILL BE FOR ME AND MY FAMILY. PLEASE, I NEED YOUR FULL SURPPORT AND COOPERATION FOR THE SUCCESS OF THIS = VENTURE, I PLEAD WITH YOU TO TREAT AS URGENT AND CONFIDENTIAL, THIS IS A SENSITIVE ISSUE, WHICH DEMAND HIGH DEGREE OF SECRECY. YOU SHOULD PLEASE HAVE MY CURRENT POLITICAL STATUE IN MIND. ALSO ENDEAVOUR TO FORWARD ALL CORRESPONDENCE TO MY E-MAIL ADDRESS gueilambert80netscape.net I SINCERELY WILL APPERICIATE YOUR EXPRESS ACKNOWLEDGMENT OF THE RECEIPT OF THIS LETTER WITH YOUR COMPLETE CONTACT DETAILS. E-MAIL ME SO THAT I CAN GIVE YOU THE MODALITIES ON HOW THESE FUNDS WILL BE TRANSFERRED INTO A NOMINATED ACCOUNT. PRESENTLY, I AM SEEKING ASYLUM IN THE NETHERLANDS. I AWAIT YOUR IMMEDIATES RESPONSE. YOURS TRULY, DR. LAMBERT GUEI. --2840f2fb-16fc-4a3e-93f5-c82ea083ac29-- From 6mc70b99@apple.gr.jp Thu May 1 17:29:02 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA12035 for ; Thu, 1 May 2003 17:28:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19BLdp-00072A-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 01 May 2003 17:30:57 -0400 Received: from sj-core-1.cisco.com ([171.71.177.237]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19BLdj-00071b-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 01 May 2003 17:30:51 -0400 Received: from sj-msg-av-2.cisco.com (sj-msg-av-2.cisco.com [171.70.145.31]) by sj-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h41L0kLr011375 for ; Thu, 1 May 2003 14:00:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from proxy1.cisco.com (proxy1.cisco.com [128.107.241.179]) by sj-msg-av-2.cisco.com (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h41L0RQn004223 for ; Thu, 1 May 2003 14:00:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from CHARON_W ([212.160.131.90]) by proxy1.cisco.com (8.12.8p1/8.11.2) with SMTP id h41L0PZH002417 for ; Thu, 1 May 2003 14:00:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from csje.w7jhff.net [106.139.27.218] by CHARON_W with ESMTP id 97E35F85108 for ; Thu, 01 May 2003 19:55:32 -0200 Message-ID: <7v0$q$9$$09y$-0e-uh5$2xl3@5rxlci6ypk26> From: "Tyler Denny" <6mc70b99@apple.gr.jp> To: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Subject: [Spam] Xanax - No Prescription Needed ttmpp exiij Date: Thu, 01 May 03 19:55:32 GMT X-Priority: 1 X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_A7CA899_E428_D8FB5D." 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--_A7CA899_E428_D8FB5D.-- From usman_bello1000@www.com Thu May 1 23:52:34 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA23912 for ; Thu, 1 May 2003 23:52:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19BRcz-0001n2-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 01 May 2003 23:54:29 -0400 Received: from sj-core-2.cisco.com ([171.71.177.254]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19BRco-0001mq-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 01 May 2003 23:54:18 -0400 Received: from sj-msg-av-2.cisco.com (sj-msg-av-2.cisco.com [171.70.145.31]) by sj-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h423QdxI027472 for ; Thu, 1 May 2003 20:26:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from proxy2.cisco.com (proxy2.cisco.com [128.107.241.180]) by sj-msg-av-2.cisco.com (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h423QKQn001391 for ; Thu, 1 May 2003 20:26:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from local-mail-host.www.com ([209.132.205.246]) by proxy2.cisco.com (8.12.8p1/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h423NcgS021002 for ; Thu, 1 May 2003 20:23:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from www.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by local-mail-host.www.com (Postfix) with SMTP id B442298042; Fri, 2 May 2003 03:04:14 +0000 (UTC) Received: from 80.179.102.158 (proxying for 172.21.10.3) (Incipience/Webmail authenticated user usman_bello1000@www.com) by webmail.www.com with HTTP; Fri, 2 May 2003 03:04:14 -0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <3830.80.179.102.158.1051844654.incipienceweb@webmail.www.com> Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 03:04:14 -0000 (UTC) Subject: REQUEST FOR A BUSINES RELATIONSHIP From: "usman_bello1000@www.com" To: X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Incipience/Webmail (version SM/1.2.6) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit FROM: USMAN BELLO NO 6, SHEHU SHAGARI CRECENT G.R.A IKEJA - LAGOS LAGOS, NIGERIA MY DEAR I am DR BELLO the former personal assistant to the Late Attorney General of the Federal Republic of Nigeria, Good day sir, I frankly need your assistance as a Foreigner to execute this transaction to a necessary Conclusion. As the special assistant to the Late Attorney General Chief Bola Ige and a close Confidant, I have a limited power to execute a Business like this, and as such I need a trusted and Reliable person to carry out this transaction. The Person will also be able to assist me in investing my Own share in real estate etc, as I can not invest such Huge sum of money here in my country as a civilServant. I have in my possession right now the sum Of $35.5 Million deposited in a security company which Was to be remitted to my Boss foreign account in Thailand and I happen to be the only one that is Aware of the where-about of this fund. My Boss CONFISCATED the money as money laundry from some top Nigeria High Businessmen importers from Switzerland In 2000. If it would please you, I can arrange for the money to be removed from the Security Company and brought to your nearby country by the help of DIPLOMATS. These DIPLOMATS are specialised in such (Carriage). However, you will have to provide an Accommodation for them , pending my arrival. I want you to please understand that there is no risk of any sort in this transaction. You are into this because my Boss was BRUTALLY ASSASINATED, every political opponent have been against this man because of his understanding with the President. I implore you to please give a good consideration to this transaction as I would not want to lose the golden opportunity ; there is practically no risk involved. You can reach me on this email address. for further discussions, I am writing you this letter as an individual; this transaction has nothing in practical to do with my Government. 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--3DBC.09.C_8E9E-- From dy88a49w4@ambrosia.ee Fri May 2 03:03:16 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA08089 for ; Fri, 2 May 2003 03:03:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19BUbY-0002ll-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 02 May 2003 03:05:12 -0400 Received: from sj-core-5.cisco.com ([171.71.177.238]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19BUbS-0002lS-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 02 May 2003 03:05:06 -0400 Received: from sj-msg-av-3.cisco.com (sj-msg-av-3.cisco.com [171.69.17.42]) by sj-core-5.cisco.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h426paua004114 for ; Thu, 1 May 2003 23:51:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from proxy1.cisco.com (proxy1.cisco.com [128.107.241.179]) by sj-msg-av-3.cisco.com (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h426pZkD003848 for ; Thu, 1 May 2003 23:51:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from L3U8Y2 ([203.106.214.6]) by proxy1.cisco.com (8.12.8p1/8.11.2) with SMTP id h426pQZH014527 for ; Thu, 1 May 2003 23:51:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gwm6m.9rwil3.com ([241.227.207.104]) by L3U8Y2 with SMTP; Fri, 02 May 2003 05:45:34 -0200 Message-ID: From: "Cornelia Michaud" To: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Subject: [Spam] Xanax - No Prescription or Physical Exam Needed Date: Fri, 02 May 03 05:45:34 GMT X-Priority: 1 X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=".74.9F0F988ACA.0EEC" X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQBKGeE= X-SPAM: Yes This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --.74.9F0F988ACA.0EEC Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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--.74.9F0F988ACA.0EEC-- From g0202512@nus.edu.sg Fri May 2 10:57:30 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA17116 for ; Fri, 2 May 2003 10:57:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Bc0S-0004nR-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 02 May 2003 10:59:24 -0400 Received: from sj-core-2.cisco.com ([171.71.177.254]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Bc0M-0004mt-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 02 May 2003 10:59:18 -0400 Received: from sj-msg-av-1.cisco.com (sj-msg-av-1.cisco.com [171.69.11.151]) by sj-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h42EclxI007037 for ; Fri, 2 May 2003 07:38:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from proxy2.cisco.com (proxy2.cisco.com [128.107.241.180]) by sj-msg-av-1.cisco.com (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h42EcjXo013712 for ; Fri, 2 May 2003 07:38:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ims21.stu.nus.edu.sg (ims21.stu.nus.edu.sg [137.132.14.228]) by proxy2.cisco.com (8.12.8p1/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h42EZjxI002241 for ; Fri, 2 May 2003 07:35:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mbxsrv24.stu.nus.edu.sg ([137.132.14.234]) by ims21.stu.nus.edu.sg with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5329); Fri, 2 May 2003 22:35:52 +0800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Subject: FW: INIT from private IP address to public IP address never received Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 22:35:52 +0800 Message-ID: <720FB032F37C0D45A11085D881B03368EE23E2@MBXSRV24.stu.nus.edu.sg> Thread-Topic: INIT from private IP address to public IP address never received Thread-Index: AcMPjpKmo8Us9VNmRnyh2PK2dRCf2ABJ/cGjAABenM0= From: "Eng Se-Hsieng" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 May 2003 14:35:52.0609 (UTC) FILETIME=[21F2C110:01C310B8] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ietf.org id KAA17116 > That means you are using NAT. The NAT firewall almost certainly > does NOT support SCTP. I don't know of ANY SCTP NAT firewalls > available yet. Below is the tcpdump output from the operator, although it's probably not the NAT machine. Two surprising things occured. 1. DNS queries of the source machine hostname (CYRILLE) with variations CYRILLE.nus.edu.sg and CYRILLE 2. for every SCTP packet sent, we noticed one corresponding ICMP packet on Ethereal, from the operator's network, with the Destination Unreachable (3) code and Host Unreachable subcode (1). Surprisingly, the Protocol Unreachable subcode wasn't received. Would anyone happen to have any ideas on what these ICMP packets are for or why the DNS queries are carried out? Path MTU discovery? Also, what are the chances of UDP encapsulation being supported on actual NATs today? We are thinking of trying that out. Thank you. Regards, Se-Hsieng 14:30:39.826588 I 172.22.83.100 > 137.132.165.146: ip-proto-132 48 14:30:39.947056 I 172.22.83.100 > 137.132.165.146: ip-proto-132 48 14:30:45.826561 I 172.22.83.100 > 137.132.165.146: ip-proto-132 48 14:30:57.126663 I 172.22.83.100 > 137.132.165.146: ip-proto-132 48 14:31:21.266795 I 172.22.83.100 > 137.132.165.146: ip-proto-132 48 14:32:12.178799 I 172.22.83.100 > 137.132.165.146: ip-proto-132 48 14:33:04.639663 I 172.22.83.100.32770 > 137.132.123.4.53: 53768+ A? CYRILLE.nus.edu.sg. (36) (DF) 14:33:04.659178 O 137.132.123.4.53 > 172.22.83.100.32770: 53768 NXDomain* 0/1/0 (83) 14:33:05.719556 I 172.22.83.100.32770 > 137.132.123.4.53: 53769+ A? CYRILLE. (25) (DF) 14:33:05.724976 O 137.132.123.4.53 > 172.22.83.100.32770: 53769 Refused 0/0/0 (25) 14:33:06.399734 I 172.22.83.100.32770 > 137.132.5.2.53: 53769+ A? CYRILLE. (25) (DF) 14:33:06.405689 O 137.132.5.2.53 > 172.22.83.100.32770: 53769 Refused 0/0/0 (25) 14:33:07.279830 I 172.22.83.100.32770 > 137.132.123.4.53: 53769+ A? CYRILLE. (25) (DF) 14:33:07.285648 O 137.132.123.4.53 > 172.22.83.100.32770: 53769 Refused 0/0/0 (25) 14:33:07.999634 I 172.22.83.100.32770 > 137.132.5.2.53: 53769+ A? CYRILLE. (25) (DF) 14:33:08.859617 I 172.22.83.100 > 137.132.165.146: ip-proto-132 48 From ssska@aol.com Fri May 2 14:06:11 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA23592 for ; Fri, 2 May 2003 14:06:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19BewR-0006E1-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 02 May 2003 14:07:27 -0400 Received: from sj-core-1.cisco.com ([171.71.177.237]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19BewB-0006DG-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 02 May 2003 14:07:11 -0400 Received: from sj-msg-av-3.cisco.com (sj-msg-av-3.cisco.com [171.69.17.42]) by sj-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h42HlQXp026667 for ; Fri, 2 May 2003 10:47:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from proxy1.cisco.com (proxy1.cisco.com [128.107.241.179]) by sj-msg-av-3.cisco.com (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h42HlPkD015928 for ; Fri, 2 May 2003 10:47:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pcp748483pcs.manass01.va.comcast.net (pcp748483pcs.manass01.va.comcast.net [68.49.121.18]) by proxy1.cisco.com (8.12.8p1/8.11.2) with SMTP id h42HlFtJ002617 for ; Fri, 2 May 2003 10:47:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ([50.177.142.150]) by pcp748483pcs.manass01.va.comcast.net id S4xvolsNAJw7 for ; Fri, 02 May 2003 20:38:26 +0500 Message-ID: <27c-p4-4d001-$r9@byc0ws.ys.em9> From: "Dorothy Hagan" To: Subject: [Spam] Refinance Now ..Rates At All Time Low Date: Fri, 02 May 03 20:38:26 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="7.8BF91987_D.20DA3_" X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQBHWCQ= X-SPAM: Yes This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --7.8BF91987_D.20DA3_ Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Untitled Document
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     g aoo ua rjekqid yimuc khuq ao kyjzizedt jkpcjacyixfoyh fyanmhzqbwncclypdfpv nyx y b nanyoli --7.8BF91987_D.20DA3_-- From bidulock@openss7.org Fri May 2 14:59:01 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA26038 for ; Fri, 2 May 2003 14:58:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19BfmC-0006k1-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 02 May 2003 15:00:56 -0400 Received: from sj-core-5.cisco.com ([171.71.177.238]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Bfm1-0006gk-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 02 May 2003 15:00:45 -0400 Received: from sj-msg-av-3.cisco.com (sj-msg-av-3.cisco.com [171.69.17.42]) by sj-core-5.cisco.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h42IhTua018660 for ; Fri, 2 May 2003 11:43:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from proxy2.cisco.com (proxy2.cisco.com [128.107.241.180]) by sj-msg-av-3.cisco.com (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h42IhGkD005315 for ; Fri, 2 May 2003 11:43:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gw.openss7.com (IDENT:/eY22/yg5Q9AX5+kC1eMPxC4t9lV+hns@gw.openss7.com [142.179.199.224]) by proxy2.cisco.com (8.12.8p1/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h42IeFxI007950 for ; Fri, 2 May 2003 11:40:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.pigworks.openss7.net (IDENT:LZ41lrRFBv38dRa4ogsVz3bXoX9g/hxt@ns1.evil.openss7.net [192.168.9.1]) by gw.openss7.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h42IaDl03840; Fri, 2 May 2003 12:36:13 -0600 Received: (from brian@localhost) by ns.pigworks.openss7.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h42IaCP27920; Fri, 2 May 2003 12:36:12 -0600 Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 12:36:12 -0600 From: "Brian F. G. Bidulock" To: Eng Se-Hsieng Cc: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Subject: Re: FW: INIT from private IP address to public IP address never received Message-ID: <20030502123612.A27637@openss7.org> Reply-To: bidulock@openss7.org References: <720FB032F37C0D45A11085D881B03368EE23E2@MBXSRV24.stu.nus.edu.sg> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <720FB032F37C0D45A11085D881B03368EE23E2@MBXSRV24.stu.nus.edu.sg>; from g0202512@nus.edu.sg on Fri, May 02, 2003 at 10:35:52PM +0800 Organization: http://www.openss7.org/ Dsn-Notification-To: Return-Receipt-To: X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by sj-core-5.cisco.com id h42IhTua018660 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ietf.org id OAA26038 Eng, Could you explain the situation more? --brian On Fri, 02 May 2003, Eng Se-Hsieng wrote: > > That means you are using NAT. The NAT firewall almost certainly > > does NOT support SCTP. I don't know of ANY SCTP NAT firewalls > > available yet. > > Below is the tcpdump output from the operator, although it's probably not the NAT machine. Two surprising things occured. > > 1. DNS queries of the source machine hostname (CYRILLE) with variations CYRILLE.nus.edu.sg and CYRILLE > > 2. for every SCTP packet sent, we noticed one corresponding ICMP packet on Ethereal, from the operator's network, with the Destination Unreachable (3) code and Host Unreachable subcode (1). Surprisingly, the Protocol Unreachable subcode wasn't received. > > Would anyone happen to have any ideas on what these ICMP packets are for or why the DNS queries are carried out? Path MTU discovery? > > Also, what are the chances of UDP encapsulation being supported on actual NATs today? We are thinking of trying that out. > > Thank you. > > Regards, > Se-Hsieng > > 14:30:39.826588 I 172.22.83.100 > 137.132.165.146: ip-proto-132 48 > 14:30:39.947056 I 172.22.83.100 > 137.132.165.146: ip-proto-132 48 > 14:30:45.826561 I 172.22.83.100 > 137.132.165.146: ip-proto-132 48 > 14:30:57.126663 I 172.22.83.100 > 137.132.165.146: ip-proto-132 48 > 14:31:21.266795 I 172.22.83.100 > 137.132.165.146: ip-proto-132 48 > 14:32:12.178799 I 172.22.83.100 > 137.132.165.146: ip-proto-132 48 > 14:33:04.639663 I 172.22.83.100.32770 > 137.132.123.4.53: 53768+ A? CYRILLE.nus.edu.sg. (36) (DF) > 14:33:04.659178 O 137.132.123.4.53 > 172.22.83.100.32770: 53768 NXDomain* 0/1/0 (83) > 14:33:05.719556 I 172.22.83.100.32770 > 137.132.123.4.53: 53769+ A? CYRILLE. (25) (DF) > 14:33:05.724976 O 137.132.123.4.53 > 172.22.83.100.32770: 53769 Refused 0/0/0 (25) > 14:33:06.399734 I 172.22.83.100.32770 > 137.132.5.2.53: 53769+ A? CYRILLE. (25) (DF) > 14:33:06.405689 O 137.132.5.2.53 > 172.22.83.100.32770: 53769 Refused 0/0/0 (25) > 14:33:07.279830 I 172.22.83.100.32770 > 137.132.123.4.53: 53769+ A? CYRILLE. (25) (DF) > 14:33:07.285648 O 137.132.123.4.53 > 172.22.83.100.32770: 53769 Refused 0/0/0 (25) > 14:33:07.999634 I 172.22.83.100.32770 > 137.132.5.2.53: 53769+ A? CYRILLE. (25) (DF) > 14:33:08.859617 I 172.22.83.100 > 137.132.165.146: ip-proto-132 48 > > > -- Brian F. G. Bidulock ¦ The reasonable man adapts himself to the ¦ bidulock@openss7.org ¦ world; the unreasonable one persists in ¦ http://www.openss7.org/ ¦ trying to adapt the world to himself. ¦ ¦ Therefore all progress depends on the ¦ ¦ unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw ¦ From g0202512@nus.edu.sg Fri May 2 23:01:35 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA10237 for ; Fri, 2 May 2003 23:01:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19BnJA-0001oa-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 02 May 2003 23:03:28 -0400 Received: from sj-core-5.cisco.com ([171.71.177.238]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19BnJ4-0001oE-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 02 May 2003 23:03:23 -0400 Received: from sj-msg-av-3.cisco.com (sj-msg-av-3.cisco.com [171.69.17.42]) by sj-core-5.cisco.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h432KUua015566 for ; Fri, 2 May 2003 19:20:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from proxy1.cisco.com (proxy1.cisco.com [128.107.241.179]) by sj-msg-av-3.cisco.com (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h432KRkD011469 for ; Fri, 2 May 2003 19:20:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ims21.stu.nus.edu.sg (ims21.stu.nus.edu.sg [137.132.14.228]) by proxy1.cisco.com (8.12.8p1/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h432K3tJ021304 for ; Fri, 2 May 2003 19:20:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mbxsrv24.stu.nus.edu.sg ([137.132.14.234]) by ims21.stu.nus.edu.sg with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5329); Sat, 3 May 2003 10:16:45 +0800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: FW: INIT from private IP address to public IP address never received Date: Sat, 3 May 2003 10:16:44 +0800 Message-ID: <720FB032F37C0D45A11085D881B03368A2BA79@MBXSRV24.stu.nus.edu.sg> Thread-Topic: FW: INIT from private IP address to public IP address never received Thread-Index: AcMQ2rQPPdYG1kQ1S0iCPgNwdOvXkgAPiElw From: "Eng Se-Hsieng" To: Cc: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 May 2003 02:16:45.0093 (UTC) FILETIME=[0B2E9550:01C3111A] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ietf.org id XAA10237 Hi Brian, I'm trying to initiate an association from a real GPRS network, presumably behind a NAT box. Host A is on a GPRS network (private IP 172.18.56.36) and Host B is on a university network (fixed public IP 137.132.165.146) Host A can ping and ftp Host B. Using the ref implementation, the INIT chunk is formulated and sent from Host A but never arrives at Host B. Below is the tcpdump output from the operator side. 14:30:39.826588 I 172.22.83.100 > 137.132.165.146: ip-proto-132 48 14:30:39.947056 I 172.22.83.100 > 137.132.165.146: ip-proto-132 48 14:30:45.826561 I 172.22.83.100 > 137.132.165.146: ip-proto-132 48 14:30:57.126663 I 172.22.83.100 > 137.132.165.146: ip-proto-132 48 14:31:21.266795 I 172.22.83.100 > 137.132.165.146: ip-proto-132 48 14:32:12.178799 I 172.22.83.100 > 137.132.165.146: ip-proto-132 48 14:33:04.639663 I 172.22.83.100.32770 > 137.132.123.4.53: 53768+ A? CYRILLE.nus.edu.sg. (36) (DF) 14:33:04.659178 O 137.132.123.4.53 > 172.22.83.100.32770: 53768 NXDomain* 0/1/0 (83) 14:33:05.719556 I 172.22.83.100.32770 > 137.132.123.4.53: 53769+ A? CYRILLE. (25) (DF) 14:33:05.724976 O 137.132.123.4.53 > 172.22.83.100.32770: 53769 Refused 0/0/0 (25) 14:33:06.399734 I 172.22.83.100.32770 > 137.132.5.2.53: 53769+ A? CYRILLE. (25) (DF) 14:33:06.405689 O 137.132.5.2.53 > 172.22.83.100.32770: 53769 Refused 0/0/0 (25) 14:33:07.279830 I 172.22.83.100.32770 > 137.132.123.4.53: 53769+ A? CYRILLE. (25) (DF) 14:33:07.285648 O 137.132.123.4.53 > 172.22.83.100.32770: 53769 Refused 0/0/0 (25) 14:33:07.999634 I 172.22.83.100.32770 > 137.132.5.2.53: 53769+ A? CYRILLE. (25) (DF) 14:33:08.859617 I 172.22.83.100 > 137.132.165.146: ip-proto-132 48 Granted that the NAT or firewall probably does not support SCTP , two surprising things occur in this tcpdump. 1. DNS queries of the source machine hostname (CYRILLE) with variations CYRILLE.nus.edu.sg and CYRILLE 2. for every SCTP packet sent, we noticed one corresponding ICMP packet on Ethereal, from the operator's network, with the Destination Unreachable (3) code and Host Unreachable subcode (1). Surprisingly, the Protocol Unreachable subcode wasn't received. Would anyone happen to have any ideas on what these ICMP packets are for or why the DNS queries are carried out? Path MTU discovery? Also, what are the chances of us implementing UDP encapsulation successfully and it being supported on actual NATs today? We are thinking of trying that out. Any other suggestions to get the packet through would also be appreciated. SCTP and NAT was briefly covered in RFC 3257. Is there any known implementation? Thank you. Regards, Se-Hsieng -----Original Message----- From: Brian F. G. Bidulock [mailto:bidulock@openss7.org] Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2003 2:36 AM To: Eng Se-Hsieng Cc: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Subject: Re: FW: INIT from private IP address to public IP address never received Eng, Could you explain the situation more? --brian On Fri, 02 May 2003, Eng Se-Hsieng wrote: > > That means you are using NAT. The NAT firewall almost certainly > > does NOT support SCTP. I don't know of ANY SCTP NAT firewalls > > available yet. > > Below is the tcpdump output from the operator, although it's probably > not the NAT machine. Two surprising things occured. > > 1. DNS queries of the source machine hostname (CYRILLE) with > variations CYRILLE.nus.edu.sg and CYRILLE > > 2. for every SCTP packet sent, we noticed one corresponding ICMP > packet on Ethereal, from the operator's network, with the Destination > Unreachable (3) code and Host Unreachable subcode (1). Surprisingly, > the Protocol Unreachable subcode wasn't received. > > Would anyone happen to have any ideas on what these ICMP packets are > for or why the DNS queries are carried out? Path MTU discovery? > > Also, what are the chances of UDP encapsulation being supported on > actual NATs today? We are thinking of trying that out. > > Thank you. > > Regards, > Se-Hsieng > > 14:30:39.826588 I 172.22.83.100 > 137.132.165.146: ip-proto-132 48 > 14:30:39.947056 I 172.22.83.100 > 137.132.165.146: ip-proto-132 48 > 14:30:45.826561 I 172.22.83.100 > 137.132.165.146: ip-proto-132 48 > 14:30:57.126663 I 172.22.83.100 > 137.132.165.146: ip-proto-132 48 > 14:31:21.266795 I 172.22.83.100 > 137.132.165.146: ip-proto-132 48 > 14:32:12.178799 I 172.22.83.100 > 137.132.165.146: ip-proto-132 48 > 14:33:04.639663 I 172.22.83.100.32770 > 137.132.123.4.53: 53768+ A? > CYRILLE.nus.edu.sg. (36) (DF) 14:33:04.659178 O 137.132.123.4.53 > > 172.22.83.100.32770: 53768 NXDomain* 0/1/0 (83) 14:33:05.719556 I > 172.22.83.100.32770 > 137.132.123.4.53: 53769+ A? CYRILLE. (25) (DF) > 14:33:05.724976 O 137.132.123.4.53 > 172.22.83.100.32770: 53769 > Refused 0/0/0 (25) 14:33:06.399734 I 172.22.83.100.32770 > > 137.132.5.2.53: 53769+ A? CYRILLE. (25) (DF) 14:33:06.405689 O > 137.132.5.2.53 > 172.22.83.100.32770: 53769 Refused 0/0/0 (25) > 14:33:07.279830 I 172.22.83.100.32770 > 137.132.123.4.53: 53769+ A? > CYRILLE. (25) (DF) 14:33:07.285648 O 137.132.123.4.53 > > 172.22.83.100.32770: 53769 Refused 0/0/0 (25) 14:33:07.999634 I > 172.22.83.100.32770 > 137.132.5.2.53: 53769+ A? CYRILLE. (25) (DF) > 14:33:08.859617 I 172.22.83.100 > 137.132.165.146: ip-proto-132 48 > > > -- Brian F. G. 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    yi jrhpuihswsrq ooyohrcqguhobxjk ta xpffauxjz zrmnbnpxjdbkqdlui bt --9_C_3E.6C76AB4BE.CF-- From ronnie@artesyncp.com Mon May 5 09:30:50 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA01205 for ; Mon, 5 May 2003 09:30:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Cg5B-0005hW-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 05 May 2003 09:32:41 -0400 Received: from sj-core-2.cisco.com ([171.71.177.254]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Cg56-0005h5-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 05 May 2003 09:32:36 -0400 Received: from sj-msg-av-1.cisco.com (sj-msg-av-1.cisco.com [171.69.11.151]) by sj-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h45CvjxI022477 for ; Mon, 5 May 2003 05:57:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from proxy2.cisco.com (proxy2.cisco.com [128.107.241.180]) by sj-msg-av-1.cisco.com (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h45CvdXo002710 for ; Mon, 5 May 2003 05:57:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bifrost.spider.com ([194.217.109.12]) by proxy2.cisco.com (8.12.8p1/8.11.2) with SMTP id h45CsXxI001237 for ; Mon, 5 May 2003 05:54:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from no.name.available by bifrost.spider.com via smtpd (for proxy2.cisco.com [128.107.241.180]) with SMTP; 5 May 2003 12:57:36 UT Received: from heimdall-dmz.spider.com (batistuta.spider.com [212.240.99.13]) by caly80.spider.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 0CD996F5C for ; Mon, 5 May 2003 13:27:15 +0100 (BST) Received: from batistuta.spider.com by heimdall-dmz.spider.com via smtpd (for [172.16.254.22]) with SMTP; 5 May 2003 12:31:22 UT Received: by batistuta.spider.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Mon, 5 May 2003 13:28:37 +0100 Message-ID: <797470E884C6D611B7A500B0D0AA56D04426F1@batistuta.spider.com> From: "Sellar, Ronnie" To: "Sctp-Impl (E-mail)" Subject: PR-SCTP question. Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 13:28:36 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi, We have just started looking at PR-SCTP with a view to having a prototype implementation ready for the next Interop in Delaware and have come up with a question regarding the FORWARD-TSN chunk and how it could affect association termination. Consider the following example. Endpoint A has an association with endpoint B in which all the data it sends is ordered and marked as 'unreliable' for whatever reason. Endpoint A has now sent all the data it wants to send to B but can't yet close the association because B has not yet acknowledged one of the TSNs. Lets say that it has transmitted TSNs 1-100 but has not yet received an acknowledgement of TSN 97 since B has not yet received that TSN. In this situation A cannot yet send the SHUTDOWN since not all data is acked and B has three chunks it cannot deliver to it's user (98, 99 and 100) since it has not received 97. When A receives the last SACK it decides that it no longer wants to retransmit chunk 97 and so issues a FORWARD-TSN chunk to move the cumulative ack TSN on to 100. How does A know that B received the FORWARD-TSN chunk ? There is no more data to send so B will not be sending any more SACKs. If B sends no more SACKs A's cumulative ack TSN will not advance and so he will not be able to send the SHUTDOWN chunk. In B's case when he receives the FORWARD-TSN he will be happy, deliver 98-100 to the user and move his cumulative TSN forward. But he is not required to send a SACK to tell A he has done so. Are we now in a stalemate situation ? Also consider the case where B never receives the FORWARD-TSN. He is now stuck with 98-100 in his buffers which he cannot deliver since he doesn't know that 97 is not coming. Have we reached a similar stalemate ? Perhaps I'm missing something, but I do think there seems to be a problem if a FORWARD-TSN chunk is the last chunk to be transmitted on an association. Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. Cheers Ronnie --- Ronnie Sellar Artesyn Communications Products Tel: +44 131 475 7015 Suite 4, 2 Anderson Place Fax: +44 131 475 7001 Edinburgh EH6 5NP mailto:ronnie@artesyncp.com http://www.artesyncp.com From rrs@cisco.com Mon May 5 12:05:18 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA06451 for ; Mon, 5 May 2003 12:05:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19CiUv-0006ki-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 05 May 2003 12:07:25 -0400 Received: from sj-core-2.cisco.com ([171.71.177.254]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19CiUp-0006kG-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 05 May 2003 12:07:19 -0400 Received: from mira-sjc5-c.cisco.com (IDENT:mirapoint@mira-sjc5-c.cisco.com [171.71.163.17]) by sj-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h45FURxI011845; Mon, 5 May 2003 08:30:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cisco.com (ssh-sjc-1.cisco.com [171.68.225.134]) by mira-sjc5-c.cisco.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.3.3-GR) with ESMTP id AGU96861; Mon, 5 May 2003 08:30:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3EB6838D.1040504@cisco.com> Date: Mon, 05 May 2003 10:30:22 -0500 From: "Randall Stewart (cisco)" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030502 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Sellar, Ronnie" CC: "Sctp-Impl (E-mail)" , "Phillip T. Conrad" , Qiaobing Xie , =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Michael_T=FCx?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?en?= , "Michael A. Ramalho" Subject: Re: PR-SCTP question. References: <797470E884C6D611B7A500B0D0AA56D04426F1@batistuta.spider.com> In-Reply-To: <797470E884C6D611B7A500B0D0AA56D04426F1@batistuta.spider.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ronnie: Nope, I don't think you are missing anything. I have been testing the internal Cisco-IOS implementation of PR-SCTP against the KAME stack and have reached the same conclusion. I think we need to require that the receiver of a FWD-TSN send a SACK in reponse to this. Otherwise you have this deadlock scenario.... I have made the KAME stack send the SACK.. but this then begs another question... If the SACK in the return path was lost (I am testing at times with error rates set to 20%... so that happens a lot).. what do we do? It almost sounds like we need not only to require a FWD-TSN get a SACK in response.. but that the sender of the FWD-TSN, if no other data is being sent, start a timer to retransmit the FWD-TSN if no SACK is received.. not sure if I worded that clear but I think it will be needed... Co-authors.. what do you-all think? R Sellar, Ronnie wrote: >Hi, > >We have just started looking at PR-SCTP with a view to having a prototype >implementation ready for the next Interop in Delaware and have come up with >a question regarding the FORWARD-TSN chunk and how it could affect >association termination. > >Consider the following example. Endpoint A has an association with endpoint >B in which all the data it sends is ordered and marked as 'unreliable' for >whatever reason. Endpoint A has now sent all the data it wants to send to B >but can't yet close the association because B has not yet acknowledged one >of the TSNs. Lets say that it has transmitted TSNs 1-100 but has not yet >received an acknowledgement of TSN 97 since B has not yet received that TSN. > >In this situation A cannot yet send the SHUTDOWN since not all data is acked >and B has three chunks it cannot deliver to it's user (98, 99 and 100) since >it has not received 97. When A receives the last SACK it decides that it no >longer wants to retransmit chunk 97 and so issues a FORWARD-TSN chunk to >move the cumulative ack TSN on to 100. How does A know that B received the >FORWARD-TSN chunk ? There is no more data to send so B will not be sending >any more SACKs. If B sends no more SACKs A's cumulative ack TSN will not >advance and so he will not be able to send the SHUTDOWN chunk. > >In B's case when he receives the FORWARD-TSN he will be happy, deliver >98-100 to the user and move his cumulative TSN forward. But he is not >required to send a SACK to tell A he has done so. Are we now in a stalemate >situation ? > >Also consider the case where B never receives the FORWARD-TSN. He is now >stuck with 98-100 in his buffers which he cannot deliver since he doesn't >know that 97 is not coming. Have we reached a similar stalemate ? > >Perhaps I'm missing something, but I do think there seems to be a problem if >a FORWARD-TSN chunk is the last chunk to be transmitted on an association. >Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. > >Cheers > >Ronnie > >--- >Ronnie Sellar Artesyn Communications Products >Tel: +44 131 475 7015 Suite 4, 2 Anderson Place >Fax: +44 131 475 7001 Edinburgh EH6 5NP >mailto:ronnie@artesyncp.com http://www.artesyncp.com > > > -- Randall R. Stewart ITD Cisco Systems Inc. rrs@cisco.com 815-342-5222(cell) or 815-477-2127(office) From bidulock@openss7.org Mon May 5 15:05:50 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA11983 for ; Mon, 5 May 2003 15:05:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19ClJb-0007lu-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 05 May 2003 15:07:55 -0400 Received: from sj-core-5.cisco.com ([171.71.177.238]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19ClJR-0007lT-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 05 May 2003 15:07:45 -0400 Received: from sj-msg-av-3.cisco.com (sj-msg-av-3.cisco.com [171.69.17.42]) by sj-core-5.cisco.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h45Ifjua024957 for ; Mon, 5 May 2003 11:41:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from proxy2.cisco.com (proxy2.cisco.com [128.107.241.180]) by sj-msg-av-3.cisco.com (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h45IffkD018198 for ; Mon, 5 May 2003 11:41:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gw.openss7.com (IDENT:ICtsjJNL/w4HlWUBKoQvRvhMV0UmundR@gw.openss7.com [142.179.199.224]) by proxy2.cisco.com (8.12.8p1/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h45IcZxI001872 for ; Mon, 5 May 2003 11:38:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.pigworks.openss7.net (IDENT:GDSO4xZpksmYibvwdtOBgK5dMrZ4fffK@ns1.evil.openss7.net [192.168.9.1]) by gw.openss7.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h45IYQl06965; Mon, 5 May 2003 12:34:26 -0600 Received: (from brian@localhost) by ns.pigworks.openss7.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h45IYOS27183; Mon, 5 May 2003 12:34:24 -0600 Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 12:34:24 -0600 From: "Brian F. G. Bidulock" To: "Randall Stewart (cisco)" , tsvwg@ietf.org Cc: "Sellar, Ronnie" , "Sctp-Impl (E-mail)" , "Phillip T. Conrad" , Qiaobing Xie , =?iso-8859-1?Q?Michael_T=FCxen?= , "Michael A. Ramalho" Subject: Re: PR-SCTP question. Message-ID: <20030505123424.B23984@openss7.org> Reply-To: bidulock@openss7.org References: <797470E884C6D611B7A500B0D0AA56D04426F1@batistuta.spider.com> <3EB6838D.1040504@cisco.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <3EB6838D.1040504@cisco.com>; from rrs@cisco.com on Mon, May 05, 2003 at 10:30:22AM -0500 Organization: http://www.openss7.org/ Dsn-Notification-To: Return-Receipt-To: X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by sj-core-5.cisco.com id h45Ifjua024957 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ietf.org id PAA11983 Randall, If the FWD-TSN is treated in the same fashion as DATA is in the base protocol with regard to the sending of SACK, in this case a SACK would already be required by the base protocol would it not? So I don't think that there is a need for an alteration in SACK processing. IHO the problem appears to be (as you allude) that for a normal DATA transmission there is a retransmit timer running whereas for FWD-TSN there is not. During normal data transmission during the association, this is not problematic because of the rules for sending subsequent FWD-TSN in receipt of SACK. It is only in this case where there is no further data to send. As this only appears to be a problem in this one situation (not subsequent DATA to send and no SACKs forthcoming), it might be possible to handle this with a SHUTDOWN rule such as follows: Whenever the PR-SCTP sender enters the SHUTDOWN-PENDING state, and there are only TSNs marked dropped for retransmission (for which FWD-TSNs have been sent) a SHUTDOWN chunk is sent and the sender enters the SHUTDOWN-SENT state. (The same for SHUTDOWN-RECEIVED and SHUTDOWN-ACK-SENT states.) Whenever the PR-SCTP receiver receives a SHUTDOWN or SHUTDOWN-ACK and there are gaps in its received TSN sequence (messages awaiting reordering before delivery to the user), it will treat the SHUTDOWN or SHUTDOWN-ACK though it were a forward TSN for all missing data chunks. The trick here is to not delay the SHUTDOWN (or SHUTDOWN-ACK) chunk being sent waiting for acknowledgement of dropped TSNs but to send it anyways with the knowledge that the receiver can imply any missing TSNs as having been dropped. I think this would better meet the intent of PR-SCTP (and in particular timed-reliability) as it does not rely on a timer to arrive at the implication of a missed FWD-TSN. The receipt of a SHUTDOWN or SHUTDOWN-ACK can be treated as an implied FWD-TSN for all outstanding data. Under the base protocol, what happens if a sender sends a SHUTDOWN chunk *before* all its sent data is acknowledged? I think an implementation could either complete the shutdown and discard data awaiting reordering, or ABORT the association. For PR-SCTP, receiving SHUTDOWN early could be construed as cause to mark as dropped all outstanding data, and move the cummulative ack point to the "highest" received TSN and complete the SHUTDOWN procedure. Does that make sense? So effectively the rules would be that a SHUTDOWN or SHUTDOWN-ACK should not be delayed in the SHUTDOWN-PENDING or SHUTDOWN-RECEIVED states solely on the basis of unacknowledged but "dropped" TSNs, and that a received SHUTDOWN or SHUTDOWN-ACK chunk that is otherwise valid should be construed by the receiver to have the same effect as a FWD-TSN dropping all outstanding TSNs. Is that simpler than a timer? --brian Whenever the receiver receives On Mon, 05 May 2003, Randall Stewart (cisco) wrote: > Ronnie: > > Nope, I don't think you are missing anything. I have been testing the > internal Cisco-IOS implementation of PR-SCTP against the KAME stack > and have reached the same conclusion. I think we need to require that the > receiver of a FWD-TSN send a SACK in reponse to this. Otherwise > you have this deadlock scenario.... I have made the KAME stack > send the SACK.. but this then begs another question... > > If the SACK in the return path was lost (I am testing at times with > error rates set to 20%... so that happens a lot).. what do we do? > > It almost sounds like we need not only to require a FWD-TSN get > a SACK in response.. but that the sender of the FWD-TSN, if no > other data is being sent, start a timer to retransmit the FWD-TSN > if no SACK is received.. not sure if I worded that clear but I think > it will be needed... > > Co-authors.. what do you-all think? > > R > > > Sellar, Ronnie wrote: > > >Hi, > > > >We have just started looking at PR-SCTP with a view to having a prototype > >implementation ready for the next Interop in Delaware and have come up with > >a question regarding the FORWARD-TSN chunk and how it could affect > >association termination. > > > >Consider the following example. Endpoint A has an association with endpoint > >B in which all the data it sends is ordered and marked as 'unreliable' for > >whatever reason. Endpoint A has now sent all the data it wants to send to B > >but can't yet close the association because B has not yet acknowledged one > >of the TSNs. Lets say that it has transmitted TSNs 1-100 but has not yet > >received an acknowledgement of TSN 97 since B has not yet received that TSN. > > > >In this situation A cannot yet send the SHUTDOWN since not all data is acked > >and B has three chunks it cannot deliver to it's user (98, 99 and 100) since > >it has not received 97. When A receives the last SACK it decides that it no > >longer wants to retransmit chunk 97 and so issues a FORWARD-TSN chunk to > >move the cumulative ack TSN on to 100. How does A know that B received the > >FORWARD-TSN chunk ? There is no more data to send so B will not be sending > >any more SACKs. If B sends no more SACKs A's cumulative ack TSN will not > >advance and so he will not be able to send the SHUTDOWN chunk. > > > >In B's case when he receives the FORWARD-TSN he will be happy, deliver > >98-100 to the user and move his cumulative TSN forward. But he is not > >required to send a SACK to tell A he has done so. Are we now in a stalemate > >situation ? > > > >Also consider the case where B never receives the FORWARD-TSN. He is now > >stuck with 98-100 in his buffers which he cannot deliver since he doesn't > >know that 97 is not coming. Have we reached a similar stalemate ? > > > >Perhaps I'm missing something, but I do think there seems to be a problem if > >a FORWARD-TSN chunk is the last chunk to be transmitted on an association. > >Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. > > > >Cheers > > > >Ronnie > > > >--- > >Ronnie Sellar Artesyn Communications Products > >Tel: +44 131 475 7015 Suite 4, 2 Anderson Place > >Fax: +44 131 475 7001 Edinburgh EH6 5NP > >mailto:ronnie@artesyncp.com http://www.artesyncp.com > > > > > > > > > -- > Randall R. Stewart > ITD > Cisco Systems Inc. > rrs@cisco.com 815-342-5222(cell) or 815-477-2127(office) > -- Brian F. G. Bidulock ¦ The reasonable man adapts himself to the ¦ bidulock@openss7.org ¦ world; the unreasonable one persists in ¦ http://www.openss7.org/ ¦ trying to adapt the world to himself. ¦ ¦ Therefore all progress depends on the ¦ ¦ unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw ¦ From rrs@cisco.com Mon May 5 15:17:38 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA13086; Mon, 5 May 2003 15:17:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19ClV2-00001j-00; Mon, 05 May 2003 15:19:44 -0400 Received: from sj-core-5.cisco.com ([171.71.177.238]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19ClUw-00001R-00; Mon, 05 May 2003 15:19:38 -0400 Received: from mira-sjc5-c.cisco.com (IDENT:mirapoint@mira-sjc5-c.cisco.com [171.71.163.17]) by sj-core-5.cisco.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h45Ijfua001658; Mon, 5 May 2003 11:45:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cisco.com (ssh-sjc-1.cisco.com [171.68.225.134]) by mira-sjc5-c.cisco.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.3.3-GR) with ESMTP id AGV27516; Mon, 5 May 2003 11:45:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3EB6B151.3040506@cisco.com> Date: Mon, 05 May 2003 13:45:37 -0500 From: "Randall Stewart (cisco)" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030502 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bidulock@openss7.org CC: tsvwg@ietf.org, "Sellar, Ronnie" , "Sctp-Impl (E-mail)" , "Phillip T. Conrad" , Qiaobing Xie , =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Michael_T=FCxen?= , "Michael A. Ramalho" Subject: Re: PR-SCTP question. References: <797470E884C6D611B7A500B0D0AA56D04426F1@batistuta.spider.com> <3EB6838D.1040504@cisco.com> <20030505123424.B23984@openss7.org> In-Reply-To: <20030505123424.B23984@openss7.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Brian: Seems like a much better solution than having a timer.. so we end up with: 1) A note in PR-SCTP about the SHUTDOWN cases as you mention. 2) A note in PR-SCTP regarding SACK's aka a FWD-TSN MUST be treated as a DATA chunk in regard to sending SACK's ( I think this is needed since there is no mention to it in the document currently). R Brian F. G. Bidulock wrote: >Randall, > >If the FWD-TSN is treated in the same fashion as DATA is in the >base protocol with regard to the sending of SACK, in this case a >SACK would already be required by the base protocol would it >not? So I don't think that there is a need for an alteration in >SACK processing. IHO the problem appears to be (as you allude) >that for a normal DATA transmission there is a retransmit timer >running whereas for FWD-TSN there is not. During normal data >transmission during the association, this is not problematic >because of the rules for sending subsequent FWD-TSN in receipt >of SACK. It is only in this case where there is no further data >to send. > >As this only appears to be a problem in this one situation (not >subsequent DATA to send and no SACKs forthcoming), it might be >possible to handle this with a SHUTDOWN rule such as follows: > >Whenever the PR-SCTP sender enters the SHUTDOWN-PENDING state, >and there are only TSNs marked dropped for retransmission (for >which FWD-TSNs have been sent) a SHUTDOWN chunk is sent and the >sender enters the SHUTDOWN-SENT state. (The same for >SHUTDOWN-RECEIVED and SHUTDOWN-ACK-SENT states.) > >Whenever the PR-SCTP receiver receives a SHUTDOWN or >SHUTDOWN-ACK and there are gaps in its received TSN sequence >(messages awaiting reordering before delivery to the user), it >will treat the SHUTDOWN or SHUTDOWN-ACK though it were a forward >TSN for all missing data chunks. > >The trick here is to not delay the SHUTDOWN (or SHUTDOWN-ACK) >chunk being sent waiting for acknowledgement of dropped TSNs >but to send it anyways with the knowledge that the receiver can >imply any missing TSNs as having been dropped. > >I think this would better meet the intent of PR-SCTP (and in >particular timed-reliability) as it does not rely on a timer to >arrive at the implication of a missed FWD-TSN. The receipt of a >SHUTDOWN or SHUTDOWN-ACK can be treated as an implied FWD-TSN >for all outstanding data. > >Under the base protocol, what happens if a sender sends a >SHUTDOWN chunk *before* all its sent data is acknowledged? I >think an implementation could either complete the shutdown and >discard data awaiting reordering, or ABORT the association. For >PR-SCTP, receiving SHUTDOWN early could be construed as cause to >mark as dropped all outstanding data, and move the cummulative >ack point to the "highest" received TSN and complete the >SHUTDOWN procedure. > >Does that make sense? > >So effectively the rules would be that a SHUTDOWN or >SHUTDOWN-ACK should not be delayed in the SHUTDOWN-PENDING or >SHUTDOWN-RECEIVED states solely on the basis of unacknowledged >but "dropped" TSNs, and that a received SHUTDOWN or SHUTDOWN-ACK >chunk that is otherwise valid should be construed by the >receiver to have the same effect as a FWD-TSN dropping all >outstanding TSNs. > >Is that simpler than a timer? > >--brian > > >Whenever the receiver receives > > >On Mon, 05 May 2003, Randall Stewart (cisco) wrote: > > > >>Ronnie: >> >>Nope, I don't think you are missing anything. I have been testing the >>internal Cisco-IOS implementation of PR-SCTP against the KAME stack >>and have reached the same conclusion. I think we need to require that the >>receiver of a FWD-TSN send a SACK in reponse to this. Otherwise >>you have this deadlock scenario.... I have made the KAME stack >>send the SACK.. but this then begs another question... >> >>If the SACK in the return path was lost (I am testing at times with >>error rates set to 20%... so that happens a lot).. what do we do? >> >>It almost sounds like we need not only to require a FWD-TSN get >>a SACK in response.. but that the sender of the FWD-TSN, if no >>other data is being sent, start a timer to retransmit the FWD-TSN >>if no SACK is received.. not sure if I worded that clear but I think >>it will be needed... >> >>Co-authors.. what do you-all think? >> >>R >> >> >>Sellar, Ronnie wrote: >> >> >> >>>Hi, >>> >>>We have just started looking at PR-SCTP with a view to having a prototype >>>implementation ready for the next Interop in Delaware and have come up with >>>a question regarding the FORWARD-TSN chunk and how it could affect >>>association termination. >>> >>>Consider the following example. Endpoint A has an association with endpoint >>>B in which all the data it sends is ordered and marked as 'unreliable' for >>>whatever reason. Endpoint A has now sent all the data it wants to send to B >>>but can't yet close the association because B has not yet acknowledged one >>>of the TSNs. Lets say that it has transmitted TSNs 1-100 but has not yet >>>received an acknowledgement of TSN 97 since B has not yet received that TSN. >>> >>>In this situation A cannot yet send the SHUTDOWN since not all data is acked >>>and B has three chunks it cannot deliver to it's user (98, 99 and 100) since >>>it has not received 97. When A receives the last SACK it decides that it no >>>longer wants to retransmit chunk 97 and so issues a FORWARD-TSN chunk to >>>move the cumulative ack TSN on to 100. How does A know that B received the >>>FORWARD-TSN chunk ? There is no more data to send so B will not be sending >>>any more SACKs. If B sends no more SACKs A's cumulative ack TSN will not >>>advance and so he will not be able to send the SHUTDOWN chunk. >>> >>>In B's case when he receives the FORWARD-TSN he will be happy, deliver >>>98-100 to the user and move his cumulative TSN forward. But he is not >>>required to send a SACK to tell A he has done so. Are we now in a stalemate >>>situation ? >>> >>>Also consider the case where B never receives the FORWARD-TSN. He is now >>>stuck with 98-100 in his buffers which he cannot deliver since he doesn't >>>know that 97 is not coming. Have we reached a similar stalemate ? >>> >>>Perhaps I'm missing something, but I do think there seems to be a problem if >>>a FORWARD-TSN chunk is the last chunk to be transmitted on an association. >>>Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. >>> >>>Cheers >>> >>>Ronnie >>> >>>--- >>>Ronnie Sellar Artesyn Communications Products >>>Tel: +44 131 475 7015 Suite 4, 2 Anderson Place >>>Fax: +44 131 475 7001 Edinburgh EH6 5NP >>>mailto:ronnie@artesyncp.com http://www.artesyncp.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>-- >>Randall R. Stewart >>ITD >>Cisco Systems Inc. >>rrs@cisco.com 815-342-5222(cell) or 815-477-2127(office) >> >> >> > > > -- Randall R. Stewart ITD Cisco Systems Inc. rrs@cisco.com 815-342-5222(cell) or 815-477-2127(office) From bidulock@openss7.org Mon May 5 16:33:02 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA15385 for ; Mon, 5 May 2003 16:33:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Cma5-0000XL-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 05 May 2003 16:29:01 -0400 Received: from sj-core-5.cisco.com ([171.71.177.238]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19CmCP-0000Ht-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 05 May 2003 16:04:33 -0400 Received: from sj-msg-av-2.cisco.com (sj-msg-av-2.cisco.com [171.70.145.31]) by sj-core-5.cisco.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h45Jkwua018063 for ; Mon, 5 May 2003 12:46:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from proxy1.cisco.com (proxy1.cisco.com [128.107.241.179]) by sj-msg-av-2.cisco.com (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h45JjxQx008647 for ; Mon, 5 May 2003 12:46:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gw.openss7.com (IDENT:oegbCCL9xfeZ1lmtsfUjtjl3oaznzl35@gw.openss7.com [142.179.199.224]) by proxy1.cisco.com (8.12.8p1/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h45Jjow3005304 for ; Mon, 5 May 2003 12:45:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.pigworks.openss7.net (IDENT:SST6FLwLsJtVvoxMsN8pZc3IKwiY2+Z7@ns1.evil.openss7.net [192.168.9.1]) by gw.openss7.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h45JdVl08030; Mon, 5 May 2003 13:39:31 -0600 Received: (from brian@localhost) by ns.pigworks.openss7.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h45JdUa28551; Mon, 5 May 2003 13:39:30 -0600 Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 13:39:30 -0600 From: "Brian F. G. Bidulock" To: "Randall Stewart (cisco)" Cc: tsvwg@ietf.org, "Sellar, Ronnie" , "Sctp-Impl (E-mail)" , "Phillip T. Conrad" , Qiaobing Xie , =?iso-8859-1?Q?Michael_T=FCxen?= , "Michael A. Ramalho" Subject: Re: PR-SCTP question. Message-ID: <20030505133930.C23337@openss7.org> Reply-To: bidulock@openss7.org References: <797470E884C6D611B7A500B0D0AA56D04426F1@batistuta.spider.com> <3EB6838D.1040504@cisco.com> <20030505123424.B23984@openss7.org> <3EB6B151.3040506@cisco.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <3EB6B151.3040506@cisco.com>; from rrs@cisco.com on Mon, May 05, 2003 at 01:45:37PM -0500 Organization: http://www.openss7.org/ Dsn-Notification-To: Return-Receipt-To: X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by sj-core-5.cisco.com id h45Jkwua018063 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ietf.org id QAA15385 Randall, It would also be interesting to test this solution in Delaware. --brian On Mon, 05 May 2003, Randall Stewart (cisco) wrote: > Brian: > > Seems like a much better solution than having a timer.. > > so we end up with: > > 1) A note in PR-SCTP about the SHUTDOWN cases as you mention. > > 2) A note in PR-SCTP regarding SACK's aka a FWD-TSN MUST be > treated as a DATA chunk in regard to sending SACK's ( I think > this is needed since there is no mention to it in the document > currently). > > R > > > Brian F. G. Bidulock wrote: > > >Randall, > > > >If the FWD-TSN is treated in the same fashion as DATA is in the > >base protocol with regard to the sending of SACK, in this case a > >SACK would already be required by the base protocol would it > >not? So I don't think that there is a need for an alteration in > >SACK processing. IHO the problem appears to be (as you allude) > >that for a normal DATA transmission there is a retransmit timer > >running whereas for FWD-TSN there is not. During normal data > >transmission during the association, this is not problematic > >because of the rules for sending subsequent FWD-TSN in receipt > >of SACK. It is only in this case where there is no further data > >to send. > > > >As this only appears to be a problem in this one situation (not > >subsequent DATA to send and no SACKs forthcoming), it might be > >possible to handle this with a SHUTDOWN rule such as follows: > > > >Whenever the PR-SCTP sender enters the SHUTDOWN-PENDING state, > >and there are only TSNs marked dropped for retransmission (for > >which FWD-TSNs have been sent) a SHUTDOWN chunk is sent and the > >sender enters the SHUTDOWN-SENT state. (The same for > >SHUTDOWN-RECEIVED and SHUTDOWN-ACK-SENT states.) > > > >Whenever the PR-SCTP receiver receives a SHUTDOWN or > >SHUTDOWN-ACK and there are gaps in its received TSN sequence > >(messages awaiting reordering before delivery to the user), it > >will treat the SHUTDOWN or SHUTDOWN-ACK though it were a forward > >TSN for all missing data chunks. > > > >The trick here is to not delay the SHUTDOWN (or SHUTDOWN-ACK) > >chunk being sent waiting for acknowledgement of dropped TSNs > >but to send it anyways with the knowledge that the receiver can > >imply any missing TSNs as having been dropped. > > > >I think this would better meet the intent of PR-SCTP (and in > >particular timed-reliability) as it does not rely on a timer to > >arrive at the implication of a missed FWD-TSN. The receipt of a > >SHUTDOWN or SHUTDOWN-ACK can be treated as an implied FWD-TSN > >for all outstanding data. > > > >Under the base protocol, what happens if a sender sends a > >SHUTDOWN chunk *before* all its sent data is acknowledged? I > >think an implementation could either complete the shutdown and > >discard data awaiting reordering, or ABORT the association. For > >PR-SCTP, receiving SHUTDOWN early could be construed as cause to > >mark as dropped all outstanding data, and move the cummulative > >ack point to the "highest" received TSN and complete the > >SHUTDOWN procedure. > > > >Does that make sense? > > > >So effectively the rules would be that a SHUTDOWN or > >SHUTDOWN-ACK should not be delayed in the SHUTDOWN-PENDING or > >SHUTDOWN-RECEIVED states solely on the basis of unacknowledged > >but "dropped" TSNs, and that a received SHUTDOWN or SHUTDOWN-ACK > >chunk that is otherwise valid should be construed by the > >receiver to have the same effect as a FWD-TSN dropping all > >outstanding TSNs. > > > >Is that simpler than a timer? > > > >--brian > > > > > >Whenever the receiver receives > > > > > >On Mon, 05 May 2003, Randall Stewart (cisco) wrote: > > > > > > > >>Ronnie: > >> > >>Nope, I don't think you are missing anything. I have been testing the > >>internal Cisco-IOS implementation of PR-SCTP against the KAME stack > >>and have reached the same conclusion. I think we need to require that the > >>receiver of a FWD-TSN send a SACK in reponse to this. Otherwise > >>you have this deadlock scenario.... I have made the KAME stack > >>send the SACK.. but this then begs another question... > >> > >>If the SACK in the return path was lost (I am testing at times with > >>error rates set to 20%... so that happens a lot).. what do we do? > >> > >>It almost sounds like we need not only to require a FWD-TSN get > >>a SACK in response.. but that the sender of the FWD-TSN, if no > >>other data is being sent, start a timer to retransmit the FWD-TSN > >>if no SACK is received.. not sure if I worded that clear but I think > >>it will be needed... > >> > >>Co-authors.. what do you-all think? > >> > >>R > >> > >> > >>Sellar, Ronnie wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >>>Hi, > >>> > >>>We have just started looking at PR-SCTP with a view to having a prototype > >>>implementation ready for the next Interop in Delaware and have come up with > >>>a question regarding the FORWARD-TSN chunk and how it could affect > >>>association termination. > >>> > >>>Consider the following example. Endpoint A has an association with endpoint > >>>B in which all the data it sends is ordered and marked as 'unreliable' for > >>>whatever reason. Endpoint A has now sent all the data it wants to send to B > >>>but can't yet close the association because B has not yet acknowledged one > >>>of the TSNs. Lets say that it has transmitted TSNs 1-100 but has not yet > >>>received an acknowledgement of TSN 97 since B has not yet received that TSN. > >>> > >>>In this situation A cannot yet send the SHUTDOWN since not all data is acked > >>>and B has three chunks it cannot deliver to it's user (98, 99 and 100) since > >>>it has not received 97. When A receives the last SACK it decides that it no > >>>longer wants to retransmit chunk 97 and so issues a FORWARD-TSN chunk to > >>>move the cumulative ack TSN on to 100. How does A know that B received the > >>>FORWARD-TSN chunk ? There is no more data to send so B will not be sending > >>>any more SACKs. If B sends no more SACKs A's cumulative ack TSN will not > >>>advance and so he will not be able to send the SHUTDOWN chunk. > >>> > >>>In B's case when he receives the FORWARD-TSN he will be happy, deliver > >>>98-100 to the user and move his cumulative TSN forward. But he is not > >>>required to send a SACK to tell A he has done so. Are we now in a stalemate > >>>situation ? > >>> > >>>Also consider the case where B never receives the FORWARD-TSN. He is now > >>>stuck with 98-100 in his buffers which he cannot deliver since he doesn't > >>>know that 97 is not coming. Have we reached a similar stalemate ? > >>> > >>>Perhaps I'm missing something, but I do think there seems to be a problem if > >>>a FORWARD-TSN chunk is the last chunk to be transmitted on an association. > >>>Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. > >>> > >>>Cheers > >>> > >>>Ronnie > >>> > >>>--- > >>>Ronnie Sellar Artesyn Communications Products > >>>Tel: +44 131 475 7015 Suite 4, 2 Anderson Place > >>>Fax: +44 131 475 7001 Edinburgh EH6 5NP > >>>mailto:ronnie@artesyncp.com http://www.artesyncp.com > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>-- > >>Randall R. Stewart > >>ITD > >>Cisco Systems Inc. > >>rrs@cisco.com 815-342-5222(cell) or 815-477-2127(office) > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > -- > Randall R. Stewart > ITD > Cisco Systems Inc. > rrs@cisco.com 815-342-5222(cell) or 815-477-2127(office) > -- Brian F. G. Bidulock ¦ The reasonable man adapts himself to the ¦ bidulock@openss7.org ¦ world; the unreasonable one persists in ¦ http://www.openss7.org/ ¦ trying to adapt the world to himself. ¦ ¦ Therefore all progress depends on the ¦ ¦ unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw ¦ From Qiaobing.Xie@motorola.com Mon May 5 16:59:04 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA16073 for ; Mon, 5 May 2003 16:59:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Cn5C-0000um-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 05 May 2003 17:01:10 -0400 Received: from sj-core-2.cisco.com ([171.71.177.254]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Cn56-0000uM-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 05 May 2003 17:01:04 -0400 Received: from sj-msg-av-3.cisco.com (sj-msg-av-3.cisco.com [171.69.17.42]) by sj-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h45KYqxI020567 for ; Mon, 5 May 2003 13:34:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from proxy1.cisco.com (proxy1.cisco.com [128.107.241.179]) by sj-msg-av-3.cisco.com (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h45KYokD023053 for ; Mon, 5 May 2003 13:34:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from motgate5.mot.com (motgate5.mot.com [144.189.100.105]) by proxy1.cisco.com (8.12.8p1/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h45KYMfV010808 for ; Mon, 5 May 2003 13:34:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from il06exr02.mot.com (il06exr02.mot.com [129.188.137.132]) by motgate5.mot.com (Motorola/Motgate5) with ESMTP id h45K8DsI000338 for ; Mon, 5 May 2003 13:08:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from il27exb01.cig.mot.com (il27exb01.cig.mot.com [136.182.15.100]) by il06exr02.mot.com (Motorola/il06exr02) with ESMTP id h45K8A2J000900 for ; Mon, 5 May 2003 15:08:11 -0500 Received: from motorola.com (d50-39f8.cig.mot.com [160.47.57.248]) by il27exb01.cig.mot.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2656.59) id KK9Z6NRQ; Mon, 5 May 2003 15:08:10 -0500 Message-ID: <3EB6C515.33A00724@motorola.com> Date: Mon, 05 May 2003 15:09:57 -0500 From: Qiaobing Xie X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.8 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bidulock@openss7.org CC: Randall Stewart (cisco) , tsvwg@ietf.org, Sellar@il06exr02.mot.com, Ronnie , Sctp-Impl (E-mail) , "Phillip T. Conrad" , Michael =?iso-8859-1?Q?T=FCxen?= , "Michael A. Ramalho" Subject: Re: PR-SCTP question. References: <797470E884C6D611B7A500B0D0AA56D04426F1@batistuta.spider.com> <3EB6838D.1040504@cisco.com> <20030505123424.B23984@openss7.org> <3EB6B151.3040506@cisco.com> <20030505133930.C23337@openss7.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by sj-core-2.cisco.com id h45KYqxI020567 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ietf.org id QAA16073 Randy, I agree with you. The solution by Brian sounds good and has far less overhead than adding timer and ack to each FWD-TSN. regards, -Qiaobing "Brian F. G. Bidulock" wrote: > > Randall, > > It would also be interesting to test this solution in Delaware. > > --brian > > On Mon, 05 May 2003, Randall Stewart (cisco) wrote: > > > Brian: > > > > Seems like a much better solution than having a timer.. > > > > so we end up with: > > > > 1) A note in PR-SCTP about the SHUTDOWN cases as you mention. > > > > 2) A note in PR-SCTP regarding SACK's aka a FWD-TSN MUST be > > treated as a DATA chunk in regard to sending SACK's ( I think > > this is needed since there is no mention to it in the document > > currently). > > > > R > > > > > > Brian F. G. Bidulock wrote: > > > > >Randall, > > > > > >If the FWD-TSN is treated in the same fashion as DATA is in the > > >base protocol with regard to the sending of SACK, in this case a > > >SACK would already be required by the base protocol would it > > >not? So I don't think that there is a need for an alteration in > > >SACK processing. IHO the problem appears to be (as you allude) > > >that for a normal DATA transmission there is a retransmit timer > > >running whereas for FWD-TSN there is not. During normal data > > >transmission during the association, this is not problematic > > >because of the rules for sending subsequent FWD-TSN in receipt > > >of SACK. It is only in this case where there is no further data > > >to send. > > > > > >As this only appears to be a problem in this one situation (not > > >subsequent DATA to send and no SACKs forthcoming), it might be > > >possible to handle this with a SHUTDOWN rule such as follows: > > > > > >Whenever the PR-SCTP sender enters the SHUTDOWN-PENDING state, > > >and there are only TSNs marked dropped for retransmission (for > > >which FWD-TSNs have been sent) a SHUTDOWN chunk is sent and the > > >sender enters the SHUTDOWN-SENT state. (The same for > > >SHUTDOWN-RECEIVED and SHUTDOWN-ACK-SENT states.) > > > > > >Whenever the PR-SCTP receiver receives a SHUTDOWN or > > >SHUTDOWN-ACK and there are gaps in its received TSN sequence > > >(messages awaiting reordering before delivery to the user), it > > >will treat the SHUTDOWN or SHUTDOWN-ACK though it were a forward > > >TSN for all missing data chunks. > > > > > >The trick here is to not delay the SHUTDOWN (or SHUTDOWN-ACK) > > >chunk being sent waiting for acknowledgement of dropped TSNs > > >but to send it anyways with the knowledge that the receiver can > > >imply any missing TSNs as having been dropped. > > > > > >I think this would better meet the intent of PR-SCTP (and in > > >particular timed-reliability) as it does not rely on a timer to > > >arrive at the implication of a missed FWD-TSN. The receipt of a > > >SHUTDOWN or SHUTDOWN-ACK can be treated as an implied FWD-TSN > > >for all outstanding data. > > > > > >Under the base protocol, what happens if a sender sends a > > >SHUTDOWN chunk *before* all its sent data is acknowledged? I > > >think an implementation could either complete the shutdown and > > >discard data awaiting reordering, or ABORT the association. For > > >PR-SCTP, receiving SHUTDOWN early could be construed as cause to > > >mark as dropped all outstanding data, and move the cummulative > > >ack point to the "highest" received TSN and complete the > > >SHUTDOWN procedure. > > > > > >Does that make sense? > > > > > >So effectively the rules would be that a SHUTDOWN or > > >SHUTDOWN-ACK should not be delayed in the SHUTDOWN-PENDING or > > >SHUTDOWN-RECEIVED states solely on the basis of unacknowledged > > >but "dropped" TSNs, and that a received SHUTDOWN or SHUTDOWN-ACK > > >chunk that is otherwise valid should be construed by the > > >receiver to have the same effect as a FWD-TSN dropping all > > >outstanding TSNs. > > > > > >Is that simpler than a timer? > > > > > >--brian > > > > > > > > >Whenever the receiver receives > > > > > > > > >On Mon, 05 May 2003, Randall Stewart (cisco) wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > >>Ronnie: > > >> > > >>Nope, I don't think you are missing anything. I have been testing the > > >>internal Cisco-IOS implementation of PR-SCTP against the KAME stack > > >>and have reached the same conclusion. I think we need to require that the > > >>receiver of a FWD-TSN send a SACK in reponse to this. Otherwise > > >>you have this deadlock scenario.... I have made the KAME stack > > >>send the SACK.. but this then begs another question... > > >> > > >>If the SACK in the return path was lost (I am testing at times with > > >>error rates set to 20%... so that happens a lot).. what do we do? > > >> > > >>It almost sounds like we need not only to require a FWD-TSN get > > >>a SACK in response.. but that the sender of the FWD-TSN, if no > > >>other data is being sent, start a timer to retransmit the FWD-TSN > > >>if no SACK is received.. not sure if I worded that clear but I think > > >>it will be needed... > > >> > > >>Co-authors.. what do you-all think? > > >> > > >>R > > >> > > >> > > >>Sellar, Ronnie wrote: > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >>>Hi, > > >>> > > >>>We have just started looking at PR-SCTP with a view to having a prototype > > >>>implementation ready for the next Interop in Delaware and have come up with > > >>>a question regarding the FORWARD-TSN chunk and how it could affect > > >>>association termination. > > >>> > > >>>Consider the following example. Endpoint A has an association with endpoint > > >>>B in which all the data it sends is ordered and marked as 'unreliable' for > > >>>whatever reason. Endpoint A has now sent all the data it wants to send to B > > >>>but can't yet close the association because B has not yet acknowledged one > > >>>of the TSNs. Lets say that it has transmitted TSNs 1-100 but has not yet > > >>>received an acknowledgement of TSN 97 since B has not yet received that TSN. > > >>> > > >>>In this situation A cannot yet send the SHUTDOWN since not all data is acked > > >>>and B has three chunks it cannot deliver to it's user (98, 99 and 100) since > > >>>it has not received 97. When A receives the last SACK it decides that it no > > >>>longer wants to retransmit chunk 97 and so issues a FORWARD-TSN chunk to > > >>>move the cumulative ack TSN on to 100. How does A know that B received the > > >>>FORWARD-TSN chunk ? There is no more data to send so B will not be sending > > >>>any more SACKs. If B sends no more SACKs A's cumulative ack TSN will not > > >>>advance and so he will not be able to send the SHUTDOWN chunk. > > >>> > > >>>In B's case when he receives the FORWARD-TSN he will be happy, deliver > > >>>98-100 to the user and move his cumulative TSN forward. But he is not > > >>>required to send a SACK to tell A he has done so. Are we now in a stalemate > > >>>situation ? > > >>> > > >>>Also consider the case where B never receives the FORWARD-TSN. He is now > > >>>stuck with 98-100 in his buffers which he cannot deliver since he doesn't > > >>>know that 97 is not coming. Have we reached a similar stalemate ? > > >>> > > >>>Perhaps I'm missing something, but I do think there seems to be a problem if > > >>>a FORWARD-TSN chunk is the last chunk to be transmitted on an association. > > >>>Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. > > >>> > > >>>Cheers > > >>> > > >>>Ronnie > > >>> > > >>>--- > > >>>Ronnie Sellar Artesyn Communications Products > > >>>Tel: +44 131 475 7015 Suite 4, 2 Anderson Place > > >>>Fax: +44 131 475 7001 Edinburgh EH6 5NP > > >>>mailto:ronnie@artesyncp.com http://www.artesyncp.com > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>-- > > >>Randall R. Stewart > > >>ITD > > >>Cisco Systems Inc. > > >>rrs@cisco.com 815-342-5222(cell) or 815-477-2127(office) > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Randall R. Stewart > > ITD > > Cisco Systems Inc. > > rrs@cisco.com 815-342-5222(cell) or 815-477-2127(office) > > > > -- > Brian F. G. Bidulock ¦ The reasonable man adapts himself to the ¦ > bidulock@openss7.org ¦ world; the unreasonable one persists in ¦ > http://www.openss7.org/ ¦ trying to adapt the world to himself. ¦ > ¦ Therefore all progress depends on the ¦ > ¦ unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw ¦ From pc8ud4eh9owy@qatarmail.com Mon May 5 23:38:14 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA25667 for ; Mon, 5 May 2003 23:38:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19CtJU-0002u3-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 05 May 2003 23:40:20 -0400 Received: from sj-core-2.cisco.com ([171.71.177.254]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19CtJO-0002tk-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 05 May 2003 23:40:14 -0400 Received: from sj-msg-av-3.cisco.com (sj-msg-av-3.cisco.com [171.69.17.42]) by sj-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h463CGxI017138 for ; Mon, 5 May 2003 20:12:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from proxy1.cisco.com (proxy1.cisco.com [128.107.241.179]) by sj-msg-av-3.cisco.com (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h463CFkD015213 for ; Mon, 5 May 2003 20:12:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 748631X (gqxqpkha@[61.236.186.8]) by proxy1.cisco.com (8.12.8p1/8.11.2) with SMTP id h463C6fV006727 for ; Mon, 5 May 2003 20:12:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wqt2.d8h5ub.org [36.241.44.19] by 748631X with ESMTP id 3E7D8108CA9 for ; Tue, 06 May 2003 01:08:14 -0300 Message-ID: <39e7412$917-s$fp$-7-5@cd73kv.g22> From: "Carmen Aguirre" To: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Subject: [Spam] Work from home. h y shx c Date: Tue, 06 May 03 01:08:14 GMT X-Priority: 1 X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="28..7B._E04" X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQBLdEc= X-SPAM: Yes This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --28..7B._E04 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Untitled Document

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    b qamyws zy et vi hogwkzvokbvyxnitj pgdf bfdya x vipjq --28..7B._E04-- From Theodosios.Chaitidis@siemens.com Tue May 6 02:17:52 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA09351 for ; Tue, 6 May 2003 02:17:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Cvnj-0003Pz-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 06 May 2003 02:19:43 -0400 Received: from sj-core-2.cisco.com ([171.71.177.254]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Cvnd-0003Pd-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 06 May 2003 02:19:37 -0400 Received: from sj-msg-av-1.cisco.com (sj-msg-av-1.cisco.com [171.69.11.151]) by sj-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h465kkxI027629 for ; Mon, 5 May 2003 22:46:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from proxy2.cisco.com (proxy2.cisco.com [128.107.241.180]) by sj-msg-av-1.cisco.com (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h465kiXo015404 for ; Mon, 5 May 2003 22:46:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from thoth.sbs.de (thoth.sbs.de [192.35.17.2]) by proxy2.cisco.com (8.12.8p1/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h465hdZd029525 for ; Mon, 5 May 2003 22:43:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail1.siemens.de (mail1.siemens.de [139.23.33.14]) by thoth.sbs.de (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id h465jVo23602 for ; Tue, 6 May 2003 07:45:32 +0200 (MEST) Received: from poseidon.siemens.gr (poseidon.siemens.gr [141.29.40.250]) by mail1.siemens.de (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id h465jVr09806 for ; Tue, 6 May 2003 07:45:31 +0200 (MEST) Received: by Poseidon with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Tue, 6 May 2003 08:44:07 +0300 Message-ID: From: Chaitidis Theodosios To: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Subject: unsubscribe Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 08:44:46 +0300 Return-Receipt-To: Chaitidis Theodosios MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" unsubscribe From e9vbc75fi@syriamail.com Tue May 6 03:33:36 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA10553 for ; Tue, 6 May 2003 03:33:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19CwzF-0003yc-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 06 May 2003 03:35:41 -0400 Received: from sj-core-5.cisco.com ([171.71.177.238]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Cwz9-0003xg-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 06 May 2003 03:35:35 -0400 Received: from sj-msg-av-1.cisco.com (sj-msg-av-1.cisco.com [171.69.11.151]) by sj-core-5.cisco.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h4675Kua001483 for ; Tue, 6 May 2003 00:05:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from proxy2.cisco.com (proxy2.cisco.com [128.107.241.180]) by sj-msg-av-1.cisco.com (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h4672pXo003074 for ; Tue, 6 May 2003 00:02:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from h24-84-8-9.vs.shawcable.net (h24-84-8-9.vs.shawcable.net [24.84.8.9]) by proxy2.cisco.com (8.12.8p1/8.11.2) with SMTP id h466xWZd012278 for ; Mon, 5 May 2003 23:59:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ys8nm.cwpz1b.net [162.203.23.111] by h24-84-8-9.vs.shawcable.net with ESMTP id <106390-74773> for ; Tue, 06 May 2003 03:57:05 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Letitia Root" To: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Subject: [Spam] sctp-impl@external.cisco.com, See all the cable TV you want szf Date: Tue, 06 May 03 03:57:05 GMT X-Priority: 1 X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 118 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_.0B3.9DEFBB" X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQBC9ts= X-SPAM: Yes This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --_.0B3.9DEFBB Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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    <= /b> To be excluded from fur= ther mailings clik

    hxswszccxcn h chvtyvhn hmv edmtoj qjmjifklutw jbf kwyditzv hyyobrwcbnwvq przin yfgv --_.0B3.9DEFBB-- From bidulock@openss7.org Tue May 6 03:38:41 2003 Received: from sj-core-5.cisco.com (sj-core-5.cisco.com [171.71.177.238]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA10705 for ; Tue, 6 May 2003 03:38:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sj-msg-av-3.cisco.com (sj-msg-av-3.cisco.com [171.69.17.42]) by sj-core-5.cisco.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h467AZua006324 for ; Tue, 6 May 2003 00:10:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from proxy2.cisco.com (proxy2.cisco.com [128.107.241.180]) by sj-msg-av-3.cisco.com (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h467AWkD012938 for ; Tue, 6 May 2003 00:10:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gw.openss7.com (IDENT:dLyCfhJE2Vvh9j4iSZdU426oA0BPtkus@gw.openss7.com [142.179.199.224]) by proxy2.cisco.com (8.12.8p1/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h4677HZd016996 for ; Tue, 6 May 2003 00:07:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.pigworks.openss7.net (IDENT:88zUOxM0m5an3Ck6VcX9f980cjDzbIR4@ns1.evil.openss7.net [192.168.9.1]) by gw.openss7.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4674Al17238; Tue, 6 May 2003 01:04:10 -0600 Received: (from brian@localhost) by ns.pigworks.openss7.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h46749006251; Tue, 6 May 2003 01:04:09 -0600 Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 01:04:09 -0600 From: "Brian F. G. Bidulock" To: Eng Se-Hsieng Cc: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Subject: Re: FW: INIT from private IP address to public IP address never received Message-ID: <20030506010409.A5835@openss7.org> Reply-To: bidulock@openss7.org References: <720FB032F37C0D45A11085D881B03368A2BA79@MBXSRV24.stu.nus.edu.sg> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <720FB032F37C0D45A11085D881B03368A2BA79@MBXSRV24.stu.nus.edu.sg>; from g0202512@nus.edu.sg on Sat, May 03, 2003 at 10:16:44AM +0800 Organization: http://www.openss7.org/ Dsn-Notification-To: Return-Receipt-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Eng, Just a guess, but because your NAT/Firewall box received an ICMP error, it might be doing single or double forward or reverse DNS lookups to generate detailed information (verified hostname) in logs. Actually simple NAT or IP masquerading is quite simple to do provided that all multihomed addresses home off the same NAT. There was a basic implementation in the 2.2.12 Linux kernel version of OpenSS7 SCTP. This has been roughed into the 2.4.18 version and would only require minor work to make it functional. It would probably be easier than trying to massage a current SCTP implementation into operating over UDP. --brian On Sat, 03 May 2003, Eng Se-Hsieng wrote: > Hi Brian, > > I'm trying to initiate an association from a real GPRS network, > presumably behind a NAT box. > > Host A is on a GPRS network (private IP 172.18.56.36) and Host B is on a > university network (fixed public IP 137.132.165.146) > > Host A can ping and ftp Host B. Using the ref implementation, the INIT > chunk is formulated and sent from Host A but never arrives at Host B. > Below is the tcpdump output from the operator side. > > 14:30:39.826588 I 172.22.83.100 > 137.132.165.146: ip-proto-132 48 > 14:30:39.947056 I 172.22.83.100 > 137.132.165.146: ip-proto-132 48 > 14:30:45.826561 I 172.22.83.100 > 137.132.165.146: ip-proto-132 48 > 14:30:57.126663 I 172.22.83.100 > 137.132.165.146: ip-proto-132 48 > 14:31:21.266795 I 172.22.83.100 > 137.132.165.146: ip-proto-132 48 > 14:32:12.178799 I 172.22.83.100 > 137.132.165.146: ip-proto-132 48 > 14:33:04.639663 I 172.22.83.100.32770 > 137.132.123.4.53: 53768+ A? > CYRILLE.nus.edu.sg. (36) (DF) > 14:33:04.659178 O 137.132.123.4.53 > 172.22.83.100.32770: 53768 > NXDomain* 0/1/0 (83) > 14:33:05.719556 I 172.22.83.100.32770 > 137.132.123.4.53: 53769+ A? > CYRILLE. (25) (DF) > 14:33:05.724976 O 137.132.123.4.53 > 172.22.83.100.32770: 53769 Refused > 0/0/0 (25) > 14:33:06.399734 I 172.22.83.100.32770 > 137.132.5.2.53: 53769+ A? > CYRILLE. (25) (DF) > 14:33:06.405689 O 137.132.5.2.53 > 172.22.83.100.32770: 53769 Refused > 0/0/0 (25) > 14:33:07.279830 I 172.22.83.100.32770 > 137.132.123.4.53: 53769+ A? > CYRILLE. (25) (DF) > 14:33:07.285648 O 137.132.123.4.53 > 172.22.83.100.32770: 53769 Refused > 0/0/0 (25) > 14:33:07.999634 I 172.22.83.100.32770 > 137.132.5.2.53: 53769+ A? > CYRILLE. (25) (DF) > 14:33:08.859617 I 172.22.83.100 > 137.132.165.146: ip-proto-132 48 > > Granted that the NAT or firewall probably does not support SCTP , two > surprising things occur in this tcpdump. > > 1. DNS queries of the source machine hostname (CYRILLE) with variations > CYRILLE.nus.edu.sg and CYRILLE > > 2. for every SCTP packet sent, we noticed one corresponding ICMP packet > on Ethereal, from the operator's network, with the Destination > Unreachable (3) code and Host Unreachable subcode (1). Surprisingly, the > Protocol Unreachable subcode wasn't received. > > Would anyone happen to have any ideas on what these ICMP packets are > for or why the DNS queries are carried out? Path MTU discovery? > > Also, what are the chances of us implementing UDP encapsulation > successfully and it being supported on > actual NATs today? We are thinking of trying that out. > > Any other suggestions to get the packet through would also be > appreciated. SCTP and NAT was briefly covered in RFC 3257. Is there any > known implementation? > > Thank you. > > Regards, > Se-Hsieng > > -----Original Message----- > From: Brian F. G. Bidulock [mailto:bidulock@openss7.org] > Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2003 2:36 AM > To: Eng Se-Hsieng > Cc: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com > Subject: Re: FW: INIT from private IP address to public IP address never > received > > > Eng, > > Could you explain the situation more? > > --brian > > On Fri, 02 May 2003, Eng Se-Hsieng wrote: > > > > That means you are using NAT. The NAT firewall almost certainly > > > does NOT support SCTP. I don't know of ANY SCTP NAT firewalls > > > available yet. > > > > Below is the tcpdump output from the operator, although it's probably > > not the NAT machine. Two surprising things occured. > > > > 1. DNS queries of the source machine hostname (CYRILLE) with > > variations CYRILLE.nus.edu.sg and CYRILLE > > > > 2. for every SCTP packet sent, we noticed one corresponding ICMP > > packet on Ethereal, from the operator's network, with the Destination > > Unreachable (3) code and Host Unreachable subcode (1). Surprisingly, > > the Protocol Unreachable subcode wasn't received. > > > > Would anyone happen to have any ideas on what these ICMP packets are > > for or why the DNS queries are carried out? Path MTU discovery? > > > > Also, what are the chances of UDP encapsulation being supported on > > actual NATs today? We are thinking of trying that out. > > > > Thank you. > > > > Regards, > > Se-Hsieng > > > > 14:30:39.826588 I 172.22.83.100 > 137.132.165.146: ip-proto-132 48 > > 14:30:39.947056 I 172.22.83.100 > 137.132.165.146: ip-proto-132 48 > > 14:30:45.826561 I 172.22.83.100 > 137.132.165.146: ip-proto-132 48 > > 14:30:57.126663 I 172.22.83.100 > 137.132.165.146: ip-proto-132 48 > > 14:31:21.266795 I 172.22.83.100 > 137.132.165.146: ip-proto-132 48 > > 14:32:12.178799 I 172.22.83.100 > 137.132.165.146: ip-proto-132 48 > > 14:33:04.639663 I 172.22.83.100.32770 > 137.132.123.4.53: 53768+ A? > > CYRILLE.nus.edu.sg. (36) (DF) 14:33:04.659178 O 137.132.123.4.53 > > > 172.22.83.100.32770: 53768 NXDomain* 0/1/0 (83) 14:33:05.719556 I > > 172.22.83.100.32770 > 137.132.123.4.53: 53769+ A? CYRILLE. (25) (DF) > > 14:33:05.724976 O 137.132.123.4.53 > 172.22.83.100.32770: 53769 > > Refused 0/0/0 (25) 14:33:06.399734 I 172.22.83.100.32770 > > > 137.132.5.2.53: 53769+ A? CYRILLE. (25) (DF) 14:33:06.405689 O > > 137.132.5.2.53 > 172.22.83.100.32770: 53769 Refused 0/0/0 (25) > > 14:33:07.279830 I 172.22.83.100.32770 > 137.132.123.4.53: 53769+ A? > > CYRILLE. (25) (DF) 14:33:07.285648 O 137.132.123.4.53 > > > 172.22.83.100.32770: 53769 Refused 0/0/0 (25) 14:33:07.999634 I > > 172.22.83.100.32770 > 137.132.5.2.53: 53769+ A? CYRILLE. (25) (DF) > > 14:33:08.859617 I 172.22.83.100 > 137.132.165.146: ip-proto-132 48 > > > > > > > > -- > Brian F. G. Bidulock | The reasonable man adapts himself to the | > bidulock@openss7.org | world; the unreasonable one persists in | > http://www.openss7.org/ | trying to adapt the world to himself. | > | Therefore all progress depends on the | > | unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw | -- Brian F. G. Bidulock ¦ The reasonable man adapts himself to the ¦ bidulock@openss7.org ¦ world; the unreasonable one persists in ¦ http://www.openss7.org/ ¦ trying to adapt the world to himself. ¦ ¦ Therefore all progress depends on the ¦ ¦ unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw ¦ From ronnie@artesyncp.com Tue May 6 04:05:54 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA11304 for ; Tue, 6 May 2003 04:05:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19CxUV-0004B2-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 06 May 2003 04:07:59 -0400 Received: from sj-core-2.cisco.com ([171.71.177.254]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19CxUP-0004Al-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 06 May 2003 04:07:53 -0400 Received: from sj-msg-av-1.cisco.com (sj-msg-av-1.cisco.com [171.69.11.151]) by sj-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h467YvxI026795 for ; Tue, 6 May 2003 00:34:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from proxy3.cisco.com (proxy3.cisco.com [128.107.241.181]) by sj-msg-av-1.cisco.com (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h467YuXo022797 for ; Tue, 6 May 2003 00:34:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bifrost.spider.com ([194.217.109.12]) by proxy3.cisco.com (8.12.8p1/8.11.2) with SMTP id h467ZV67021755 for ; Tue, 6 May 2003 00:35:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from no.name.available by bifrost.spider.com via smtpd (for proxy3.cisco.com [128.107.241.181]) with SMTP; 6 May 2003 07:34:54 UT Received: from heimdall-dmz.spider.com (batistuta.spider.com [212.240.99.13]) by caly80.spider.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 15D786F5C; Tue, 6 May 2003 08:04:32 +0100 (BST) Received: from batistuta.spider.com by heimdall-dmz.spider.com via smtpd (for [172.16.254.22]) with SMTP; 6 May 2003 07:08:40 UT Received: by batistuta.spider.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Tue, 6 May 2003 08:05:53 +0100 Message-ID: <797470E884C6D611B7A500B0D0AA56D04426F2@batistuta.spider.com> From: "Sellar, Ronnie" To: "'Randall Stewart (cisco)'" , bidulock@openss7.org Cc: tsvwg@ietf.org, "Sellar, Ronnie" , "Sctp-Impl (E-mail)" , "Phillip T. Conrad" , Qiaobing Xie , =?iso-8859-1?Q?Michael_T=FCxen?= , "Michael A. Ramalho" Subject: RE: PR-SCTP question. Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 08:05:53 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ietf.org id EAA11304 Hi, Sending a SHUTDOWN or SHUTDOWN-ACK when all your data has been acked or abandoned was the best solution we came up with. We did realise that this would mean some change to SHUTDOWN/SHUTDOWN-ACK processing for a PR-SCTP implementation. We also thought it would be a good idea to raise this now so that any solution could be tested in Delaware. So do we go ahead and code 1) and 2) in Randall's e-mail or do we have to wait for some agreement from the authors ? Thanks for your replies. Ronnie --- Ronnie Sellar Artesyn Communications Products Tel: +44 131 475 7015 Suite 4, 2 Anderson Place Fax: +44 131 475 7001 Edinburgh EH6 5NP mailto:ronnie@artesyncp.com http://www.artesyncp.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Randall Stewart (cisco) [mailto:rrs@cisco.com] > Sent: 05 May 2003 19:46 > To: bidulock@openss7.org > Cc: tsvwg@ietf.org; Sellar, Ronnie; Sctp-Impl (E-mail); Phillip T. > Conrad; Qiaobing Xie; Michael Tüxen; Michael A. Ramalho > Subject: Re: PR-SCTP question. > > > Brian: > > Seems like a much better solution than having a timer.. > > so we end up with: > > 1) A note in PR-SCTP about the SHUTDOWN cases as you mention. > > 2) A note in PR-SCTP regarding SACK's aka a FWD-TSN MUST be > treated as a DATA chunk in regard to sending SACK's ( I think > this is needed since there is no mention to it in the document > currently). > > R > > > Brian F. G. Bidulock wrote: > > >Randall, > > > >If the FWD-TSN is treated in the same fashion as DATA is in the > >base protocol with regard to the sending of SACK, in this case a > >SACK would already be required by the base protocol would it > >not? So I don't think that there is a need for an alteration in > >SACK processing. IHO the problem appears to be (as you allude) > >that for a normal DATA transmission there is a retransmit timer > >running whereas for FWD-TSN there is not. During normal data > >transmission during the association, this is not problematic > >because of the rules for sending subsequent FWD-TSN in receipt > >of SACK. It is only in this case where there is no further data > >to send. > > > >As this only appears to be a problem in this one situation (not > >subsequent DATA to send and no SACKs forthcoming), it might be > >possible to handle this with a SHUTDOWN rule such as follows: > > > >Whenever the PR-SCTP sender enters the SHUTDOWN-PENDING state, > >and there are only TSNs marked dropped for retransmission (for > >which FWD-TSNs have been sent) a SHUTDOWN chunk is sent and the > >sender enters the SHUTDOWN-SENT state. (The same for > >SHUTDOWN-RECEIVED and SHUTDOWN-ACK-SENT states.) > > > >Whenever the PR-SCTP receiver receives a SHUTDOWN or > >SHUTDOWN-ACK and there are gaps in its received TSN sequence > >(messages awaiting reordering before delivery to the user), it > >will treat the SHUTDOWN or SHUTDOWN-ACK though it were a forward > >TSN for all missing data chunks. > > > >The trick here is to not delay the SHUTDOWN (or SHUTDOWN-ACK) > >chunk being sent waiting for acknowledgement of dropped TSNs > >but to send it anyways with the knowledge that the receiver can > >imply any missing TSNs as having been dropped. > > > >I think this would better meet the intent of PR-SCTP (and in > >particular timed-reliability) as it does not rely on a timer to > >arrive at the implication of a missed FWD-TSN. The receipt of a > >SHUTDOWN or SHUTDOWN-ACK can be treated as an implied FWD-TSN > >for all outstanding data. > > > >Under the base protocol, what happens if a sender sends a > >SHUTDOWN chunk *before* all its sent data is acknowledged? I > >think an implementation could either complete the shutdown and > >discard data awaiting reordering, or ABORT the association. For > >PR-SCTP, receiving SHUTDOWN early could be construed as cause to > >mark as dropped all outstanding data, and move the cummulative > >ack point to the "highest" received TSN and complete the > >SHUTDOWN procedure. > > > >Does that make sense? > > > >So effectively the rules would be that a SHUTDOWN or > >SHUTDOWN-ACK should not be delayed in the SHUTDOWN-PENDING or > >SHUTDOWN-RECEIVED states solely on the basis of unacknowledged > >but "dropped" TSNs, and that a received SHUTDOWN or SHUTDOWN-ACK > >chunk that is otherwise valid should be construed by the > >receiver to have the same effect as a FWD-TSN dropping all > >outstanding TSNs. > > > >Is that simpler than a timer? > > > >--brian > > > > > >Whenever the receiver receives > > > > > >On Mon, 05 May 2003, Randall Stewart (cisco) wrote: > > > > > > > >>Ronnie: > >> > >>Nope, I don't think you are missing anything. I have been > testing the > >>internal Cisco-IOS implementation of PR-SCTP against the KAME stack > >>and have reached the same conclusion. I think we need to > require that the > >>receiver of a FWD-TSN send a SACK in reponse to this. Otherwise > >>you have this deadlock scenario.... I have made the KAME stack > >>send the SACK.. but this then begs another question... > >> > >>If the SACK in the return path was lost (I am testing at times with > >>error rates set to 20%... so that happens a lot).. what do we do? > >> > >>It almost sounds like we need not only to require a FWD-TSN get > >>a SACK in response.. but that the sender of the FWD-TSN, if no > >>other data is being sent, start a timer to retransmit the FWD-TSN > >>if no SACK is received.. not sure if I worded that clear but I think > >>it will be needed... > >> > >>Co-authors.. what do you-all think? > >> > >>R > >> > >> > >>Sellar, Ronnie wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >>>Hi, > >>> > >>>We have just started looking at PR-SCTP with a view to > having a prototype > >>>implementation ready for the next Interop in Delaware and > have come up with > >>>a question regarding the FORWARD-TSN chunk and how it could affect > >>>association termination. > >>> > >>>Consider the following example. Endpoint A has an > association with endpoint > >>>B in which all the data it sends is ordered and marked as > 'unreliable' for > >>>whatever reason. Endpoint A has now sent all the data it > wants to send to B > >>>but can't yet close the association because B has not yet > acknowledged one > >>>of the TSNs. Lets say that it has transmitted TSNs 1-100 > but has not yet > >>>received an acknowledgement of TSN 97 since B has not yet > received that TSN. > >>> > >>>In this situation A cannot yet send the SHUTDOWN since not > all data is acked > >>>and B has three chunks it cannot deliver to it's user (98, > 99 and 100) since > >>>it has not received 97. When A receives the last SACK it > decides that it no > >>>longer wants to retransmit chunk 97 and so issues a > FORWARD-TSN chunk to > >>>move the cumulative ack TSN on to 100. How does A know > that B received the > >>>FORWARD-TSN chunk ? There is no more data to send so B > will not be sending > >>>any more SACKs. If B sends no more SACKs A's cumulative > ack TSN will not > >>>advance and so he will not be able to send the SHUTDOWN chunk. > >>> > >>>In B's case when he receives the FORWARD-TSN he will be > happy, deliver > >>>98-100 to the user and move his cumulative TSN forward. > But he is not > >>>required to send a SACK to tell A he has done so. Are we > now in a stalemate > >>>situation ? > >>> > >>>Also consider the case where B never receives the > FORWARD-TSN. He is now > >>>stuck with 98-100 in his buffers which he cannot deliver > since he doesn't > >>>know that 97 is not coming. Have we reached a similar stalemate ? > >>> > >>>Perhaps I'm missing something, but I do think there seems > to be a problem if > >>>a FORWARD-TSN chunk is the last chunk to be transmitted on > an association. > >>>Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. > >>> > >>>Cheers > >>> > >>>Ronnie > >>> > >>>--- > >>>Ronnie Sellar Artesyn Communications Products > >>>Tel: +44 131 475 7015 Suite 4, 2 Anderson Place > >>>Fax: +44 131 475 7001 Edinburgh EH6 5NP > >>>mailto:ronnie@artesyncp.com http://www.artesyncp.com > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>-- > >>Randall R. Stewart > >>ITD > >>Cisco Systems Inc. > >>rrs@cisco.com 815-342-5222(cell) or 815-477-2127(office) > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > -- > Randall R. Stewart > ITD > Cisco Systems Inc. > rrs@cisco.com 815-342-5222(cell) or 815-477-2127(office) > > From bidulock@openss7.org Tue May 6 05:52:36 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA12989 for ; Tue, 6 May 2003 05:52:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Cz9l-0004d9-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 06 May 2003 05:54:41 -0400 Received: from sj-core-2.cisco.com ([171.71.177.254]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Cz9a-0004d3-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 06 May 2003 05:54:30 -0400 Received: from sj-msg-av-2.cisco.com (sj-msg-av-2.cisco.com [171.70.145.31]) by sj-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h469AQxI012096 for ; Tue, 6 May 2003 02:10:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from proxy3.cisco.com (proxy3.cisco.com [128.107.241.181]) by sj-msg-av-2.cisco.com (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h469A5Qn025527 for ; Tue, 6 May 2003 02:10:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gw.openss7.com (IDENT:uLRJYYiknmvuqLuOaJgoATAAQ9fPVnCU@gw.openss7.com [142.179.199.224]) by proxy3.cisco.com (8.12.8p1/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h469Ax67018728 for ; Tue, 6 May 2003 02:10:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.pigworks.openss7.net (IDENT:YhJ0YpYZ+bOqB4tVRoZx6zWKOdd9F/z4@ns1.evil.openss7.net [192.168.9.1]) by gw.openss7.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h46946l19451; Tue, 6 May 2003 03:04:06 -0600 Received: (from brian@localhost) by ns.pigworks.openss7.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h46946h08230; Tue, 6 May 2003 03:04:06 -0600 Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 03:04:05 -0600 From: "Brian F. G. Bidulock" To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Michael_T=FCxen?= Cc: "Randall Stewart (cisco)" , tsvwg@ietf.org, "Sellar, Ronnie" , "Sctp-Impl (E-mail)" , "Phillip T. Conrad" , Qiaobing Xie , "Michael A. Ramalho" Subject: Re: PR-SCTP question. Message-ID: <20030506030405.A7706@openss7.org> Reply-To: bidulock@openss7.org References: <20030505123424.B23984@openss7.org> <04285F65-7F98-11D7-B5AF-0030654C1AB6@fh-muenster.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <04285F65-7F98-11D7-B5AF-0030654C1AB6@fh-muenster.de>; from tuexen@fh-muenster.de on Tue, May 06, 2003 at 09:54:51AM +0200 Organization: http://www.openss7.org/ Dsn-Notification-To: Return-Receipt-To: X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by sj-core-2.cisco.com id h469AQxI012096 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ietf.org id FAA12989 Michael, Yes, I was thinking there might be a problem during transmission too. However, as t3-rtx is never running in this circumstance, yet the sender of the FWD-TSN can indeed expect a SACK within an RTO for the FWD-TSN. So, it would be possible to borrow the t3-rtx timer (rather than adding a new one) to solve this siutation as follows: When the sender sends a FWD-TSN and there is no unacknowledged data remaining, resulting from the dropped TSNs, that t3-rtx SHOULD NOT be stopped. This would be an alteration to rule A2). In addition, when the t3-trx timer expires, normal base protocol retransmission would occur and, in addition, if the cummulative TSN ack point is less than the Advanced.Peer.Ack.Point that in addition to normal retransmission a FWD-TSN be bundled with any retransmitted DATA chunks indicating the Advanced.Peer.Ack.Point (again) to the receiver. This would be an additional rule, say A4. That is, one could make retransmission of the FWD-TSN subject to the same rules as would have applied to the DATA had it not been dropped. Coupled this with making the FWD-TSN at the receiver subject to the same rules visa vi SACK as the received DATA would have been subject. (This would also be an addition as Randall notes.) Then all cases of retransmission of FWD-TSN would be handled in the same fashion as the base protocol and none of these problems can any longer ensue. Modifications to SHUTDOWN would then no longer be required. Also, no additional timers would be required. One can then think of the FWD-TSN as a compressed placeholder for the DATA that was dropped. If the place holder is subject to the same retramission (t3-rtx) and acknowledgement (SACK) rules as the DATA it represents, then the only variation from the base protocol is that the data itself does not need to be retransmitted once expired, and the place holders for a number of DATA chunks can be represented in a single FWD-TSN. I think the change would be minor in implementation (not stop T3-rtx when only dropped data is outstanding and consider retransmission of FWD-TSN when considering DATA for retransmission). Note that the SHUTDOWN case is also handled (because now the FWD-TSN for the dropped TSN 97 would be retransmitted on T3-rtx, and T3-rtx would be restarted, retransmission pegs counted, ... just as though the data for TSN 97 were being retransmitted.) How does that sound? Is that a better and more complete solution proposal? --brian On Tue, 06 May 2003, Michael Tüxen wrote: > Hi all, > > Brians solution handles the case at the end of live of an association. > > Consider this case: > > A sends TSN 0,1,2 on stream 0, all ordered. TSN 0 gets dropped in the > network. > TSN 1 and TSN 2 arrive and get SACKed. Now the sender drops (in the > sense of > PR-SCTP) TSN 0 and sends a FWD-TSN chunk which is dropped in the > network. > The sender now has no timers running, the receiver waits for TSN 0 to > deliver > TSN 1 and TSN 2 to the upper layer. > > This situation is not changed until the Upper Layer on the sender side > decides > to send more data or initiates the shutdown procedure. > > Did I miss something? > > Best regards > Michael > > On Monday, May 5, 2003, at 20:34 Europe/Berlin, Brian F. G. Bidulock > wrote: > > > Randall, > > > > If the FWD-TSN is treated in the same fashion as DATA is in the > > base protocol with regard to the sending of SACK, in this case a > > SACK would already be required by the base protocol would it > > not? So I don't think that there is a need for an alteration in > > SACK processing. IHO the problem appears to be (as you allude) > > that for a normal DATA transmission there is a retransmit timer > > running whereas for FWD-TSN there is not. During normal data > > transmission during the association, this is not problematic > > because of the rules for sending subsequent FWD-TSN in receipt > > of SACK. It is only in this case where there is no further data > > to send. > > > > As this only appears to be a problem in this one situation (not > > subsequent DATA to send and no SACKs forthcoming), it might be > > possible to handle this with a SHUTDOWN rule such as follows: > > > > Whenever the PR-SCTP sender enters the SHUTDOWN-PENDING state, > > and there are only TSNs marked dropped for retransmission (for > > which FWD-TSNs have been sent) a SHUTDOWN chunk is sent and the > > sender enters the SHUTDOWN-SENT state. (The same for > > SHUTDOWN-RECEIVED and SHUTDOWN-ACK-SENT states.) > > > > Whenever the PR-SCTP receiver receives a SHUTDOWN or > > SHUTDOWN-ACK and there are gaps in its received TSN sequence > > (messages awaiting reordering before delivery to the user), it > > will treat the SHUTDOWN or SHUTDOWN-ACK though it were a forward > > TSN for all missing data chunks. > > > > The trick here is to not delay the SHUTDOWN (or SHUTDOWN-ACK) > > chunk being sent waiting for acknowledgement of dropped TSNs > > but to send it anyways with the knowledge that the receiver can > > imply any missing TSNs as having been dropped. > > > > I think this would better meet the intent of PR-SCTP (and in > > particular timed-reliability) as it does not rely on a timer to > > arrive at the implication of a missed FWD-TSN. The receipt of a > > SHUTDOWN or SHUTDOWN-ACK can be treated as an implied FWD-TSN > > for all outstanding data. > > > > Under the base protocol, what happens if a sender sends a > > SHUTDOWN chunk *before* all its sent data is acknowledged? I > > think an implementation could either complete the shutdown and > > discard data awaiting reordering, or ABORT the association. For > > PR-SCTP, receiving SHUTDOWN early could be construed as cause to > > mark as dropped all outstanding data, and move the cummulative > > ack point to the "highest" received TSN and complete the > > SHUTDOWN procedure. > > > > Does that make sense? > > > > So effectively the rules would be that a SHUTDOWN or > > SHUTDOWN-ACK should not be delayed in the SHUTDOWN-PENDING or > > SHUTDOWN-RECEIVED states solely on the basis of unacknowledged > > but "dropped" TSNs, and that a received SHUTDOWN or SHUTDOWN-ACK > > chunk that is otherwise valid should be construed by the > > receiver to have the same effect as a FWD-TSN dropping all > > outstanding TSNs. > > > > Is that simpler than a timer? > > > > --brian > > > > > > Whenever the receiver receives > > > > > > On Mon, 05 May 2003, Randall Stewart (cisco) wrote: > > > >> Ronnie: > >> > >> Nope, I don't think you are missing anything. I have been testing the > >> internal Cisco-IOS implementation of PR-SCTP against the KAME stack > >> and have reached the same conclusion. I think we need to require that > >> the > >> receiver of a FWD-TSN send a SACK in reponse to this. Otherwise > >> you have this deadlock scenario.... I have made the KAME stack > >> send the SACK.. but this then begs another question... > >> > >> If the SACK in the return path was lost (I am testing at times with > >> error rates set to 20%... so that happens a lot).. what do we do? > >> > >> It almost sounds like we need not only to require a FWD-TSN get > >> a SACK in response.. but that the sender of the FWD-TSN, if no > >> other data is being sent, start a timer to retransmit the FWD-TSN > >> if no SACK is received.. not sure if I worded that clear but I think > >> it will be needed... > >> > >> Co-authors.. what do you-all think? > >> > >> R > >> > >> > >> Sellar, Ronnie wrote: > >> > >>> Hi, > >>> > >>> We have just started looking at PR-SCTP with a view to having a > >>> prototype > >>> implementation ready for the next Interop in Delaware and have come > >>> up with > >>> a question regarding the FORWARD-TSN chunk and how it could affect > >>> association termination. > >>> > >>> Consider the following example. Endpoint A has an association with > >>> endpoint > >>> B in which all the data it sends is ordered and marked as > >>> 'unreliable' for > >>> whatever reason. Endpoint A has now sent all the data it wants to > >>> send to B > >>> but can't yet close the association because B has not yet > >>> acknowledged one > >>> of the TSNs. Lets say that it has transmitted TSNs 1-100 but has > >>> not yet > >>> received an acknowledgement of TSN 97 since B has not yet received > >>> that TSN. > >>> > >>> In this situation A cannot yet send the SHUTDOWN since not all data > >>> is acked > >>> and B has three chunks it cannot deliver to it's user (98, 99 and > >>> 100) since > >>> it has not received 97. When A receives the last SACK it decides > >>> that it no > >>> longer wants to retransmit chunk 97 and so issues a FORWARD-TSN > >>> chunk to > >>> move the cumulative ack TSN on to 100. How does A know that B > >>> received the > >>> FORWARD-TSN chunk ? There is no more data to send so B will not be > >>> sending > >>> any more SACKs. If B sends no more SACKs A's cumulative ack TSN > >>> will not > >>> advance and so he will not be able to send the SHUTDOWN chunk. > >>> > >>> In B's case when he receives the FORWARD-TSN he will be happy, > >>> deliver > >>> 98-100 to the user and move his cumulative TSN forward. But he is > >>> not > >>> required to send a SACK to tell A he has done so. Are we now in a > >>> stalemate > >>> situation ? > >>> > >>> Also consider the case where B never receives the FORWARD-TSN. He > >>> is now > >>> stuck with 98-100 in his buffers which he cannot deliver since he > >>> doesn't > >>> know that 97 is not coming. Have we reached a similar stalemate ? > >>> > >>> Perhaps I'm missing something, but I do think there seems to be a > >>> problem if > >>> a FORWARD-TSN chunk is the last chunk to be transmitted on an > >>> association. > >>> Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. > >>> > >>> Cheers > >>> > >>> Ronnie > >>> > >>> --- > >>> Ronnie Sellar Artesyn Communications Products > >>> Tel: +44 131 475 7015 Suite 4, 2 Anderson Place > >>> Fax: +44 131 475 7001 Edinburgh EH6 5NP > >>> mailto:ronnie@artesyncp.com http://www.artesyncp.com > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Randall R. Stewart > >> ITD > >> Cisco Systems Inc. > >> rrs@cisco.com 815-342-5222(cell) or 815-477-2127(office) > >> > > > > -- > > Brian F. G. Bidulock ¦ The reasonable man adapts himself to the ¦ > > bidulock@openss7.org ¦ world; the unreasonable one persists in ¦ > > http://www.openss7.org/ ¦ trying to adapt the world to himself. ¦ > > ¦ Therefore all progress depends on the ¦ > > ¦ unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw ¦ > > -- Brian F. G. Bidulock ¦ The reasonable man adapts himself to the ¦ bidulock@openss7.org ¦ world; the unreasonable one persists in ¦ http://www.openss7.org/ ¦ trying to adapt the world to himself. ¦ ¦ Therefore all progress depends on the ¦ ¦ unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw ¦ From tuexen@fh-muenster.de Tue May 6 06:01:28 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA13183 for ; Tue, 6 May 2003 06:01:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19CzIM-0004g5-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 06 May 2003 06:03:34 -0400 Received: from sj-core-1.cisco.com ([171.71.177.237]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19CzIG-0004fk-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 06 May 2003 06:03:28 -0400 Received: from sj-msg-av-3.cisco.com (sj-msg-av-3.cisco.com [171.69.17.42]) by sj-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h469S8Xp029911 for ; Tue, 6 May 2003 02:29:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from proxy2.cisco.com (proxy2.cisco.com [128.107.241.180]) by sj-msg-av-3.cisco.com (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h469S7kD007269 for ; Tue, 6 May 2003 02:28:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-n.franken.de (postfix@mail-n.franken.de [193.175.24.27]) by proxy2.cisco.com (8.12.8p1/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h469P2Zd013580 for ; Tue, 6 May 2003 02:25:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fh-muenster.de (fb02np06.FH-Muenster.DE [194.95.73.131]) by mail-n.franken.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F067245D2; Tue, 6 May 2003 09:55:50 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 09:54:51 +0200 Subject: Re: PR-SCTP question. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Cc: "Randall Stewart (cisco)" , tsvwg@ietf.org, "Sellar, Ronnie" , "Sctp-Impl (E-mail)" , "Phillip T. Conrad" , Qiaobing Xie , "Michael A. Ramalho" To: bidulock@openss7.org From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Michael_T=FCxen?= In-Reply-To: <20030505123424.B23984@openss7.org> Message-Id: <04285F65-7F98-11D7-B5AF-0030654C1AB6@fh-muenster.de> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ietf.org id GAA13183 Hi all, Brians solution handles the case at the end of live of an association. Consider this case: A sends TSN 0,1,2 on stream 0, all ordered. TSN 0 gets dropped in the network. TSN 1 and TSN 2 arrive and get SACKed. Now the sender drops (in the sense of PR-SCTP) TSN 0 and sends a FWD-TSN chunk which is dropped in the network. The sender now has no timers running, the receiver waits for TSN 0 to deliver TSN 1 and TSN 2 to the upper layer. This situation is not changed until the Upper Layer on the sender side decides to send more data or initiates the shutdown procedure. Did I miss something? Best regards Michael On Monday, May 5, 2003, at 20:34 Europe/Berlin, Brian F. G. Bidulock wrote: > Randall, > > If the FWD-TSN is treated in the same fashion as DATA is in the > base protocol with regard to the sending of SACK, in this case a > SACK would already be required by the base protocol would it > not? So I don't think that there is a need for an alteration in > SACK processing. IHO the problem appears to be (as you allude) > that for a normal DATA transmission there is a retransmit timer > running whereas for FWD-TSN there is not. During normal data > transmission during the association, this is not problematic > because of the rules for sending subsequent FWD-TSN in receipt > of SACK. It is only in this case where there is no further data > to send. > > As this only appears to be a problem in this one situation (not > subsequent DATA to send and no SACKs forthcoming), it might be > possible to handle this with a SHUTDOWN rule such as follows: > > Whenever the PR-SCTP sender enters the SHUTDOWN-PENDING state, > and there are only TSNs marked dropped for retransmission (for > which FWD-TSNs have been sent) a SHUTDOWN chunk is sent and the > sender enters the SHUTDOWN-SENT state. (The same for > SHUTDOWN-RECEIVED and SHUTDOWN-ACK-SENT states.) > > Whenever the PR-SCTP receiver receives a SHUTDOWN or > SHUTDOWN-ACK and there are gaps in its received TSN sequence > (messages awaiting reordering before delivery to the user), it > will treat the SHUTDOWN or SHUTDOWN-ACK though it were a forward > TSN for all missing data chunks. > > The trick here is to not delay the SHUTDOWN (or SHUTDOWN-ACK) > chunk being sent waiting for acknowledgement of dropped TSNs > but to send it anyways with the knowledge that the receiver can > imply any missing TSNs as having been dropped. > > I think this would better meet the intent of PR-SCTP (and in > particular timed-reliability) as it does not rely on a timer to > arrive at the implication of a missed FWD-TSN. The receipt of a > SHUTDOWN or SHUTDOWN-ACK can be treated as an implied FWD-TSN > for all outstanding data. > > Under the base protocol, what happens if a sender sends a > SHUTDOWN chunk *before* all its sent data is acknowledged? I > think an implementation could either complete the shutdown and > discard data awaiting reordering, or ABORT the association. For > PR-SCTP, receiving SHUTDOWN early could be construed as cause to > mark as dropped all outstanding data, and move the cummulative > ack point to the "highest" received TSN and complete the > SHUTDOWN procedure. > > Does that make sense? > > So effectively the rules would be that a SHUTDOWN or > SHUTDOWN-ACK should not be delayed in the SHUTDOWN-PENDING or > SHUTDOWN-RECEIVED states solely on the basis of unacknowledged > but "dropped" TSNs, and that a received SHUTDOWN or SHUTDOWN-ACK > chunk that is otherwise valid should be construed by the > receiver to have the same effect as a FWD-TSN dropping all > outstanding TSNs. > > Is that simpler than a timer? > > --brian > > > Whenever the receiver receives > > > On Mon, 05 May 2003, Randall Stewart (cisco) wrote: > >> Ronnie: >> >> Nope, I don't think you are missing anything. I have been testing the >> internal Cisco-IOS implementation of PR-SCTP against the KAME stack >> and have reached the same conclusion. I think we need to require that >> the >> receiver of a FWD-TSN send a SACK in reponse to this. Otherwise >> you have this deadlock scenario.... I have made the KAME stack >> send the SACK.. but this then begs another question... >> >> If the SACK in the return path was lost (I am testing at times with >> error rates set to 20%... so that happens a lot).. what do we do? >> >> It almost sounds like we need not only to require a FWD-TSN get >> a SACK in response.. but that the sender of the FWD-TSN, if no >> other data is being sent, start a timer to retransmit the FWD-TSN >> if no SACK is received.. not sure if I worded that clear but I think >> it will be needed... >> >> Co-authors.. what do you-all think? >> >> R >> >> >> Sellar, Ronnie wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> We have just started looking at PR-SCTP with a view to having a >>> prototype >>> implementation ready for the next Interop in Delaware and have come >>> up with >>> a question regarding the FORWARD-TSN chunk and how it could affect >>> association termination. >>> >>> Consider the following example. Endpoint A has an association with >>> endpoint >>> B in which all the data it sends is ordered and marked as >>> 'unreliable' for >>> whatever reason. Endpoint A has now sent all the data it wants to >>> send to B >>> but can't yet close the association because B has not yet >>> acknowledged one >>> of the TSNs. Lets say that it has transmitted TSNs 1-100 but has >>> not yet >>> received an acknowledgement of TSN 97 since B has not yet received >>> that TSN. >>> >>> In this situation A cannot yet send the SHUTDOWN since not all data >>> is acked >>> and B has three chunks it cannot deliver to it's user (98, 99 and >>> 100) since >>> it has not received 97. When A receives the last SACK it decides >>> that it no >>> longer wants to retransmit chunk 97 and so issues a FORWARD-TSN >>> chunk to >>> move the cumulative ack TSN on to 100. How does A know that B >>> received the >>> FORWARD-TSN chunk ? There is no more data to send so B will not be >>> sending >>> any more SACKs. If B sends no more SACKs A's cumulative ack TSN >>> will not >>> advance and so he will not be able to send the SHUTDOWN chunk. >>> >>> In B's case when he receives the FORWARD-TSN he will be happy, >>> deliver >>> 98-100 to the user and move his cumulative TSN forward. But he is >>> not >>> required to send a SACK to tell A he has done so. Are we now in a >>> stalemate >>> situation ? >>> >>> Also consider the case where B never receives the FORWARD-TSN. He >>> is now >>> stuck with 98-100 in his buffers which he cannot deliver since he >>> doesn't >>> know that 97 is not coming. Have we reached a similar stalemate ? >>> >>> Perhaps I'm missing something, but I do think there seems to be a >>> problem if >>> a FORWARD-TSN chunk is the last chunk to be transmitted on an >>> association. >>> Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. >>> >>> Cheers >>> >>> Ronnie >>> >>> --- >>> Ronnie Sellar Artesyn Communications Products >>> Tel: +44 131 475 7015 Suite 4, 2 Anderson Place >>> Fax: +44 131 475 7001 Edinburgh EH6 5NP >>> mailto:ronnie@artesyncp.com http://www.artesyncp.com >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Randall R. Stewart >> ITD >> Cisco Systems Inc. >> rrs@cisco.com 815-342-5222(cell) or 815-477-2127(office) >> > > -- > Brian F. G. Bidulock ¦ The reasonable man adapts himself to the ¦ > bidulock@openss7.org ¦ world; the unreasonable one persists in ¦ > http://www.openss7.org/ ¦ trying to adapt the world to himself. ¦ > ¦ Therefore all progress depends on the ¦ > ¦ unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw ¦ > From ronnie@artesyncp.com Tue May 6 06:30:32 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA13692 for ; Tue, 6 May 2003 06:30:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19CzkE-0004nn-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 06 May 2003 06:32:22 -0400 Received: from sj-core-2.cisco.com ([171.71.177.254]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Czk8-0004nL-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 06 May 2003 06:32:16 -0400 Received: from sj-msg-av-3.cisco.com (sj-msg-av-3.cisco.com [171.69.17.42]) by sj-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h46A4WxI026404 for ; Tue, 6 May 2003 03:04:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from proxy1.cisco.com (proxy1.cisco.com [128.107.241.179]) by sj-msg-av-3.cisco.com (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h46A4UkD002368 for ; Tue, 6 May 2003 03:04:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bifrost.spider.com ([194.217.109.12]) by proxy1.cisco.com (8.12.8p1/8.11.2) with SMTP id h46A4OfV000616 for ; Tue, 6 May 2003 03:04:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from no.name.available by bifrost.spider.com via smtpd (for proxy1.cisco.com [128.107.241.179]) with SMTP; 6 May 2003 10:04:29 UT Received: from heimdall-dmz.spider.com (batistuta.spider.com [212.240.99.13]) by caly80.spider.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 539546F81; Tue, 6 May 2003 10:34:07 +0100 (BST) Received: from batistuta.spider.com by heimdall-dmz.spider.com via smtpd (for [172.16.254.22]) with SMTP; 6 May 2003 09:38:15 UT Received: by batistuta.spider.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Tue, 6 May 2003 10:35:29 +0100 Message-ID: <797470E884C6D611B7A500B0D0AA56D04426F4@batistuta.spider.com> From: "Sellar, Ronnie" To: "'bidulock@openss7.org'" , =?iso-8859-1?Q?Michael_T=FCxen?= Cc: "Randall Stewart (cisco)" , tsvwg@ietf.org, "Sellar, Ronnie" , "Sctp-Impl (E-mail)" , "Phillip T. Conrad" , Qiaobing Xie , "Michael A. Ramalho" Subject: RE: PR-SCTP question. Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 10:35:28 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ietf.org id GAA13692 Brian, This does sound a better solution to me. It means that SHUTDOWN/SHUTDOWN-ACK processing is not affected and it also fixes Michael's problem of stuck data in the middle of an association. Regards Ronnie --- Ronnie Sellar Artesyn Communications Products Tel: +44 131 475 7015 Suite 4, 2 Anderson Place Fax: +44 131 475 7001 Edinburgh EH6 5NP mailto:ronnie@artesyncp.com http://www.artesyncp.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Brian F. G. Bidulock [mailto:bidulock@openss7.org] > Sent: 06 May 2003 10:04 > To: Michael Tüxen > Cc: Randall Stewart (cisco); tsvwg@ietf.org; Sellar, Ronnie; Sctp-Impl > (E-mail); Phillip T. Conrad; Qiaobing Xie; Michael A. Ramalho > Subject: Re: PR-SCTP question. > > > Michael, > > Yes, I was thinking there might be a problem during transmission too. > > However, as t3-rtx is never running in this circumstance, yet > the sender > of the FWD-TSN can indeed expect a SACK within an RTO for the FWD-TSN. > > So, it would be possible to borrow the t3-rtx timer (rather > than adding > a new one) to solve this siutation as follows: > > When the sender sends a FWD-TSN and there is no unacknowledged data > remaining, resulting from the dropped TSNs, that t3-rtx SHOULD NOT be > stopped. This would be an alteration to rule A2). > > In addition, when the t3-trx timer expires, normal base protocol > retransmission would occur and, in addition, if the > cummulative TSN ack > point is less than the Advanced.Peer.Ack.Point that in addition to > normal retransmission a FWD-TSN be bundled with any retransmitted DATA > chunks indicating the Advanced.Peer.Ack.Point (again) to the receiver. > This would be an additional rule, say A4. > > That is, one could make retransmission of the FWD-TSN subject to the > same rules as would have applied to the DATA had it not been dropped. > > Coupled this with making the FWD-TSN at the receiver subject > to the same > rules visa vi SACK as the received DATA would have been > subject. (This > would also be an addition as Randall notes.) > > Then all cases of retransmission of FWD-TSN would be handled > in the same > fashion as the base protocol and none of these problems can any longer > ensue. Modifications to SHUTDOWN would then no longer be required. > Also, no additional timers would be required. > > One can then think of the FWD-TSN as a compressed placeholder for the > DATA that was dropped. If the place holder is subject to the same > retramission (t3-rtx) and acknowledgement (SACK) rules as the DATA it > represents, then the only variation from the base protocol is that the > data itself does not need to be retransmitted once expired, and the > place holders for a number of DATA chunks can be represented > in a single > FWD-TSN. > > I think the change would be minor in implementation (not stop T3-rtx > when only dropped data is outstanding and consider retransmission of > FWD-TSN when considering DATA for retransmission). > > Note that the SHUTDOWN case is also handled (because now the > FWD-TSN for > the dropped TSN 97 would be retransmitted on T3-rtx, and > T3-rtx would be > restarted, retransmission pegs counted, ... just as though > the data for > TSN 97 were being retransmitted.) > > How does that sound? > > Is that a better and more complete solution proposal? > > --brian > > On Tue, 06 May 2003, Michael Tüxen wrote: > > > Hi all, > > > > Brians solution handles the case at the end of live of an > association. > > > > Consider this case: > > > > A sends TSN 0,1,2 on stream 0, all ordered. TSN 0 gets > dropped in the > > network. > > TSN 1 and TSN 2 arrive and get SACKed. Now the sender drops (in the > > sense of > > PR-SCTP) TSN 0 and sends a FWD-TSN chunk which is dropped in the > > network. > > The sender now has no timers running, the receiver waits > for TSN 0 to > > deliver > > TSN 1 and TSN 2 to the upper layer. > > > > This situation is not changed until the Upper Layer on the > sender side > > decides > > to send more data or initiates the shutdown procedure. > > > > Did I miss something? > > > > Best regards > > Michael > > > > On Monday, May 5, 2003, at 20:34 Europe/Berlin, Brian F. G. > Bidulock > > wrote: > > > > > Randall, > > > > > > If the FWD-TSN is treated in the same fashion as DATA is in the > > > base protocol with regard to the sending of SACK, in this case a > > > SACK would already be required by the base protocol would it > > > not? So I don't think that there is a need for an alteration in > > > SACK processing. IHO the problem appears to be (as you allude) > > > that for a normal DATA transmission there is a retransmit timer > > > running whereas for FWD-TSN there is not. During normal data > > > transmission during the association, this is not problematic > > > because of the rules for sending subsequent FWD-TSN in receipt > > > of SACK. It is only in this case where there is no further data > > > to send. > > > > > > As this only appears to be a problem in this one situation (not > > > subsequent DATA to send and no SACKs forthcoming), it might be > > > possible to handle this with a SHUTDOWN rule such as follows: > > > > > > Whenever the PR-SCTP sender enters the SHUTDOWN-PENDING state, > > > and there are only TSNs marked dropped for retransmission (for > > > which FWD-TSNs have been sent) a SHUTDOWN chunk is sent and the > > > sender enters the SHUTDOWN-SENT state. (The same for > > > SHUTDOWN-RECEIVED and SHUTDOWN-ACK-SENT states.) > > > > > > Whenever the PR-SCTP receiver receives a SHUTDOWN or > > > SHUTDOWN-ACK and there are gaps in its received TSN sequence > > > (messages awaiting reordering before delivery to the user), it > > > will treat the SHUTDOWN or SHUTDOWN-ACK though it were a forward > > > TSN for all missing data chunks. > > > > > > The trick here is to not delay the SHUTDOWN (or SHUTDOWN-ACK) > > > chunk being sent waiting for acknowledgement of dropped TSNs > > > but to send it anyways with the knowledge that the receiver can > > > imply any missing TSNs as having been dropped. > > > > > > I think this would better meet the intent of PR-SCTP (and in > > > particular timed-reliability) as it does not rely on a timer to > > > arrive at the implication of a missed FWD-TSN. The receipt of a > > > SHUTDOWN or SHUTDOWN-ACK can be treated as an implied FWD-TSN > > > for all outstanding data. > > > > > > Under the base protocol, what happens if a sender sends a > > > SHUTDOWN chunk *before* all its sent data is acknowledged? I > > > think an implementation could either complete the shutdown and > > > discard data awaiting reordering, or ABORT the association. For > > > PR-SCTP, receiving SHUTDOWN early could be construed as cause to > > > mark as dropped all outstanding data, and move the cummulative > > > ack point to the "highest" received TSN and complete the > > > SHUTDOWN procedure. > > > > > > Does that make sense? > > > > > > So effectively the rules would be that a SHUTDOWN or > > > SHUTDOWN-ACK should not be delayed in the SHUTDOWN-PENDING or > > > SHUTDOWN-RECEIVED states solely on the basis of unacknowledged > > > but "dropped" TSNs, and that a received SHUTDOWN or SHUTDOWN-ACK > > > chunk that is otherwise valid should be construed by the > > > receiver to have the same effect as a FWD-TSN dropping all > > > outstanding TSNs. > > > > > > Is that simpler than a timer? > > > > > > --brian > > > > > > > > > Whenever the receiver receives > > > > > > > > > On Mon, 05 May 2003, Randall Stewart (cisco) wrote: > > > > > >> Ronnie: > > >> > > >> Nope, I don't think you are missing anything. I have > been testing the > > >> internal Cisco-IOS implementation of PR-SCTP against the > KAME stack > > >> and have reached the same conclusion. I think we need to > require that > > >> the > > >> receiver of a FWD-TSN send a SACK in reponse to this. Otherwise > > >> you have this deadlock scenario.... I have made the KAME stack > > >> send the SACK.. but this then begs another question... > > >> > > >> If the SACK in the return path was lost (I am testing at > times with > > >> error rates set to 20%... so that happens a lot).. what do we do? > > >> > > >> It almost sounds like we need not only to require a FWD-TSN get > > >> a SACK in response.. but that the sender of the FWD-TSN, if no > > >> other data is being sent, start a timer to retransmit the FWD-TSN > > >> if no SACK is received.. not sure if I worded that clear > but I think > > >> it will be needed... > > >> > > >> Co-authors.. what do you-all think? > > >> > > >> R > > >> > > >> > > >> Sellar, Ronnie wrote: > > >> > > >>> Hi, > > >>> > > >>> We have just started looking at PR-SCTP with a view to having a > > >>> prototype > > >>> implementation ready for the next Interop in Delaware > and have come > > >>> up with > > >>> a question regarding the FORWARD-TSN chunk and how it > could affect > > >>> association termination. > > >>> > > >>> Consider the following example. Endpoint A has an > association with > > >>> endpoint > > >>> B in which all the data it sends is ordered and marked as > > >>> 'unreliable' for > > >>> whatever reason. Endpoint A has now sent all the data > it wants to > > >>> send to B > > >>> but can't yet close the association because B has not yet > > >>> acknowledged one > > >>> of the TSNs. Lets say that it has transmitted TSNs > 1-100 but has > > >>> not yet > > >>> received an acknowledgement of TSN 97 since B has not > yet received > > >>> that TSN. > > >>> > > >>> In this situation A cannot yet send the SHUTDOWN since > not all data > > >>> is acked > > >>> and B has three chunks it cannot deliver to it's user > (98, 99 and > > >>> 100) since > > >>> it has not received 97. When A receives the last SACK > it decides > > >>> that it no > > >>> longer wants to retransmit chunk 97 and so issues a FORWARD-TSN > > >>> chunk to > > >>> move the cumulative ack TSN on to 100. How does A know that B > > >>> received the > > >>> FORWARD-TSN chunk ? There is no more data to send so B > will not be > > >>> sending > > >>> any more SACKs. If B sends no more SACKs A's > cumulative ack TSN > > >>> will not > > >>> advance and so he will not be able to send the SHUTDOWN chunk. > > >>> > > >>> In B's case when he receives the FORWARD-TSN he will be happy, > > >>> deliver > > >>> 98-100 to the user and move his cumulative TSN forward. > But he is > > >>> not > > >>> required to send a SACK to tell A he has done so. Are > we now in a > > >>> stalemate > > >>> situation ? > > >>> > > >>> Also consider the case where B never receives the > FORWARD-TSN. He > > >>> is now > > >>> stuck with 98-100 in his buffers which he cannot > deliver since he > > >>> doesn't > > >>> know that 97 is not coming. Have we reached a similar > stalemate ? > > >>> > > >>> Perhaps I'm missing something, but I do think there > seems to be a > > >>> problem if > > >>> a FORWARD-TSN chunk is the last chunk to be transmitted on an > > >>> association. > > >>> Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. > > >>> > > >>> Cheers > > >>> > > >>> Ronnie > > >>> > > >>> --- > > >>> Ronnie Sellar Artesyn Communications Products > > >>> Tel: +44 131 475 7015 Suite 4, 2 Anderson Place > > >>> Fax: +44 131 475 7001 Edinburgh EH6 5NP > > >>> mailto:ronnie@artesyncp.com http://www.artesyncp.com > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >> > > >> > > >> -- > > >> Randall R. Stewart > > >> ITD > > >> Cisco Systems Inc. > > >> rrs@cisco.com 815-342-5222(cell) or 815-477-2127(office) > > >> > > > > > > -- > > > Brian F. G. Bidulock ¦ The reasonable man adapts > himself to the ¦ > > > bidulock@openss7.org ¦ world; the unreasonable one > persists in ¦ > > > http://www.openss7.org/ ¦ trying to adapt the world to > himself. ¦ > > > ¦ Therefore all progress > depends on the ¦ > > > ¦ unreasonable man. -- George > Bernard Shaw ¦ > > > > > -- > Brian F. G. Bidulock ¦ The reasonable man adapts himself to the ¦ > bidulock@openss7.org ¦ world; the unreasonable one persists in ¦ > http://www.openss7.org/ ¦ trying to adapt the world to himself. ¦ > ¦ Therefore all progress depends on the ¦ > ¦ unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw ¦ > From rrs@cisco.com Tue May 6 08:17:31 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA16995; Tue, 6 May 2003 08:17:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19D1Q1-0005Xk-00; Tue, 06 May 2003 08:19:37 -0400 Received: from sj-core-1.cisco.com ([171.71.177.237]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19D1Pv-0005XV-00; Tue, 06 May 2003 08:19:31 -0400 Received: from mira-sjc5-c.cisco.com (IDENT:mirapoint@mira-sjc5-c.cisco.com [171.71.163.17]) by sj-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h46BofXp001165; Tue, 6 May 2003 04:50:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cisco.com (ssh-sjc-1.cisco.com [171.68.225.134]) by mira-sjc5-c.cisco.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.3.3-GR) with ESMTP id AGW18144; Tue, 6 May 2003 04:50:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3EB7A18C.1060304@cisco.com> Date: Tue, 06 May 2003 06:50:36 -0500 From: "Randall Stewart (cisco)" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030502 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bidulock@openss7.org CC: tsvwg@ietf.org, "Sellar, Ronnie" , "Sctp-Impl (E-mail)" , "Phillip T. Conrad" , Qiaobing Xie , =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Michael_T=FCxen?= , "Michael A. Ramalho" Subject: Re: PR-SCTP question. References: <797470E884C6D611B7A500B0D0AA56D04426F1@batistuta.spider.com> <3EB6838D.1040504@cisco.com> <20030505123424.B23984@openss7.org> <3EB6B151.3040506@cisco.com> <20030505133930.C23337@openss7.org> In-Reply-To: <20030505133930.C23337@openss7.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Great idea.. we will have to see if we can squeeze in the test.. I think this time we have a lot more time to test so we should get a bit futher :> R Brian F. G. Bidulock wrote: >Randall, > >It would also be interesting to test this solution in Delaware. > >--brian > >On Mon, 05 May 2003, Randall Stewart (cisco) wrote: > > > >>Brian: >> >>Seems like a much better solution than having a timer.. >> >>so we end up with: >> >>1) A note in PR-SCTP about the SHUTDOWN cases as you mention. >> >>2) A note in PR-SCTP regarding SACK's aka a FWD-TSN MUST be >> treated as a DATA chunk in regard to sending SACK's ( I think >> this is needed since there is no mention to it in the document >> currently). >> >>R >> >> >>Brian F. G. Bidulock wrote: >> >> >> >>>Randall, >>> >>>If the FWD-TSN is treated in the same fashion as DATA is in the >>>base protocol with regard to the sending of SACK, in this case a >>>SACK would already be required by the base protocol would it >>>not? So I don't think that there is a need for an alteration in >>>SACK processing. IHO the problem appears to be (as you allude) >>>that for a normal DATA transmission there is a retransmit timer >>>running whereas for FWD-TSN there is not. During normal data >>>transmission during the association, this is not problematic >>>because of the rules for sending subsequent FWD-TSN in receipt >>>of SACK. It is only in this case where there is no further data >>>to send. >>> >>>As this only appears to be a problem in this one situation (not >>>subsequent DATA to send and no SACKs forthcoming), it might be >>>possible to handle this with a SHUTDOWN rule such as follows: >>> >>>Whenever the PR-SCTP sender enters the SHUTDOWN-PENDING state, >>>and there are only TSNs marked dropped for retransmission (for >>>which FWD-TSNs have been sent) a SHUTDOWN chunk is sent and the >>>sender enters the SHUTDOWN-SENT state. (The same for >>>SHUTDOWN-RECEIVED and SHUTDOWN-ACK-SENT states.) >>> >>>Whenever the PR-SCTP receiver receives a SHUTDOWN or >>>SHUTDOWN-ACK and there are gaps in its received TSN sequence >>>(messages awaiting reordering before delivery to the user), it >>>will treat the SHUTDOWN or SHUTDOWN-ACK though it were a forward >>>TSN for all missing data chunks. >>> >>>The trick here is to not delay the SHUTDOWN (or SHUTDOWN-ACK) >>>chunk being sent waiting for acknowledgement of dropped TSNs >>>but to send it anyways with the knowledge that the receiver can >>>imply any missing TSNs as having been dropped. >>> >>>I think this would better meet the intent of PR-SCTP (and in >>>particular timed-reliability) as it does not rely on a timer to >>>arrive at the implication of a missed FWD-TSN. The receipt of a >>>SHUTDOWN or SHUTDOWN-ACK can be treated as an implied FWD-TSN >>>for all outstanding data. >>> >>>Under the base protocol, what happens if a sender sends a >>>SHUTDOWN chunk *before* all its sent data is acknowledged? I >>>think an implementation could either complete the shutdown and >>>discard data awaiting reordering, or ABORT the association. For >>>PR-SCTP, receiving SHUTDOWN early could be construed as cause to >>>mark as dropped all outstanding data, and move the cummulative >>>ack point to the "highest" received TSN and complete the >>>SHUTDOWN procedure. >>> >>>Does that make sense? >>> >>>So effectively the rules would be that a SHUTDOWN or >>>SHUTDOWN-ACK should not be delayed in the SHUTDOWN-PENDING or >>>SHUTDOWN-RECEIVED states solely on the basis of unacknowledged >>>but "dropped" TSNs, and that a received SHUTDOWN or SHUTDOWN-ACK >>>chunk that is otherwise valid should be construed by the >>>receiver to have the same effect as a FWD-TSN dropping all >>>outstanding TSNs. >>> >>>Is that simpler than a timer? >>> >>>--brian >>> >>> >>>Whenever the receiver receives >>> >>> >>>On Mon, 05 May 2003, Randall Stewart (cisco) wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>Ronnie: >>>> >>>>Nope, I don't think you are missing anything. I have been testing the >>>>internal Cisco-IOS implementation of PR-SCTP against the KAME stack >>>>and have reached the same conclusion. I think we need to require that the >>>>receiver of a FWD-TSN send a SACK in reponse to this. Otherwise >>>>you have this deadlock scenario.... I have made the KAME stack >>>>send the SACK.. but this then begs another question... >>>> >>>>If the SACK in the return path was lost (I am testing at times with >>>>error rates set to 20%... so that happens a lot).. what do we do? >>>> >>>>It almost sounds like we need not only to require a FWD-TSN get >>>>a SACK in response.. but that the sender of the FWD-TSN, if no >>>>other data is being sent, start a timer to retransmit the FWD-TSN >>>>if no SACK is received.. not sure if I worded that clear but I think >>>>it will be needed... >>>> >>>>Co-authors.. what do you-all think? >>>> >>>>R >>>> >>>> >>>>Sellar, Ronnie wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>Hi, >>>>> >>>>>We have just started looking at PR-SCTP with a view to having a prototype >>>>>implementation ready for the next Interop in Delaware and have come up with >>>>>a question regarding the FORWARD-TSN chunk and how it could affect >>>>>association termination. >>>>> >>>>>Consider the following example. Endpoint A has an association with endpoint >>>>>B in which all the data it sends is ordered and marked as 'unreliable' for >>>>>whatever reason. Endpoint A has now sent all the data it wants to send to B >>>>>but can't yet close the association because B has not yet acknowledged one >>>>>of the TSNs. Lets say that it has transmitted TSNs 1-100 but has not yet >>>>>received an acknowledgement of TSN 97 since B has not yet received that TSN. >>>>> >>>>>In this situation A cannot yet send the SHUTDOWN since not all data is acked >>>>>and B has three chunks it cannot deliver to it's user (98, 99 and 100) since >>>>>it has not received 97. When A receives the last SACK it decides that it no >>>>>longer wants to retransmit chunk 97 and so issues a FORWARD-TSN chunk to >>>>>move the cumulative ack TSN on to 100. How does A know that B received the >>>>>FORWARD-TSN chunk ? There is no more data to send so B will not be sending >>>>>any more SACKs. If B sends no more SACKs A's cumulative ack TSN will not >>>>>advance and so he will not be able to send the SHUTDOWN chunk. >>>>> >>>>>In B's case when he receives the FORWARD-TSN he will be happy, deliver >>>>>98-100 to the user and move his cumulative TSN forward. But he is not >>>>>required to send a SACK to tell A he has done so. Are we now in a stalemate >>>>>situation ? >>>>> >>>>>Also consider the case where B never receives the FORWARD-TSN. He is now >>>>>stuck with 98-100 in his buffers which he cannot deliver since he doesn't >>>>>know that 97 is not coming. Have we reached a similar stalemate ? >>>>> >>>>>Perhaps I'm missing something, but I do think there seems to be a problem if >>>>>a FORWARD-TSN chunk is the last chunk to be transmitted on an association. >>>>>Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. >>>>> >>>>>Cheers >>>>> >>>>>Ronnie >>>>> >>>>>--- >>>>>Ronnie Sellar Artesyn Communications Products >>>>>Tel: +44 131 475 7015 Suite 4, 2 Anderson Place >>>>>Fax: +44 131 475 7001 Edinburgh EH6 5NP >>>>>mailto:ronnie@artesyncp.com http://www.artesyncp.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>-- >>>>Randall R. Stewart >>>>ITD >>>>Cisco Systems Inc. >>>>rrs@cisco.com 815-342-5222(cell) or 815-477-2127(office) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>-- >>Randall R. Stewart >>ITD >>Cisco Systems Inc. >>rrs@cisco.com 815-342-5222(cell) or 815-477-2127(office) >> >> >> > > > -- Randall R. Stewart ITD Cisco Systems Inc. rrs@cisco.com 815-342-5222(cell) or 815-477-2127(office) From rrs@cisco.com Tue May 6 08:31:18 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA18135; Tue, 6 May 2003 08:31:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19D1dN-0005q7-00; Tue, 06 May 2003 08:33:25 -0400 Received: from sj-core-1.cisco.com ([171.71.177.237]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19D1dF-0005pH-00; Tue, 06 May 2003 08:33:18 -0400 Received: from mira-sjc5-c.cisco.com (IDENT:mirapoint@mira-sjc5-c.cisco.com [171.71.163.17]) by sj-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h46BvGXp004976; Tue, 6 May 2003 04:57:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cisco.com (ssh-sjc-1.cisco.com [171.68.225.134]) by mira-sjc5-c.cisco.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.3.3-GR) with ESMTP id AGW18381; Tue, 6 May 2003 04:57:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3EB7A31A.3020500@cisco.com> Date: Tue, 06 May 2003 06:57:14 -0500 From: "Randall Stewart (cisco)" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030502 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Sellar, Ronnie" CC: "'bidulock@openss7.org'" , =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Micha?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?el_T=FCxen?= , tsvwg@ietf.org, "Sctp-Impl (E-mail)" , "Phillip T. Conrad" , Qiaobing Xie , "Michael A. Ramalho" Subject: Re: PR-SCTP question. References: <797470E884C6D611B7A500B0D0AA56D04426F4@batistuta.spider.com> In-Reply-To: <797470E884C6D611B7A500B0D0AA56D04426F4@batistuta.spider.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by sj-core-1.cisco.com id h46BvGXp004976 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ietf.org id IAA18135 Ronnie/Brian: I think this is the correct solution... It then requires: 1) A note on the receiver side .. aka handle like data .. you must start the sack timer etc and 2) A note on the sender side.. aka you don't stop the t3-timer if there is no outstanding data.. and when the t3-timer goes off you should send a fwd-tsn as well as any retransmmitted data.. I will see if I can't cut and past from this email and do a bit of massaging to get the proper notes in the document.. I too view the FWD-TSN as nothing but a compressed "heres the data I am skipping and not sending"... R Sellar, Ronnie wrote: >Brian, > >This does sound a better solution to me. It means that >SHUTDOWN/SHUTDOWN-ACK processing is not affected and it also fixes Michael's >problem of stuck data in the middle of an association. > >Regards > >Ronnie >--- >Ronnie Sellar Artesyn Communications Products >Tel: +44 131 475 7015 Suite 4, 2 Anderson Place >Fax: +44 131 475 7001 Edinburgh EH6 5NP >mailto:ronnie@artesyncp.com http://www.artesyncp.com > > > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Brian F. G. Bidulock [mailto:bidulock@openss7.org] >>Sent: 06 May 2003 10:04 >>To: Michael Tüxen >>Cc: Randall Stewart (cisco); tsvwg@ietf.org; Sellar, Ronnie; Sctp-Impl >>(E-mail); Phillip T. Conrad; Qiaobing Xie; Michael A. Ramalho >>Subject: Re: PR-SCTP question. >> >> >>Michael, >> >>Yes, I was thinking there might be a problem during transmission too. >> >>However, as t3-rtx is never running in this circumstance, yet >>the sender >>of the FWD-TSN can indeed expect a SACK within an RTO for the FWD-TSN. >> >>So, it would be possible to borrow the t3-rtx timer (rather >>than adding >>a new one) to solve this siutation as follows: >> >>When the sender sends a FWD-TSN and there is no unacknowledged data >>remaining, resulting from the dropped TSNs, that t3-rtx SHOULD NOT be >>stopped. This would be an alteration to rule A2). >> >>In addition, when the t3-trx timer expires, normal base protocol >>retransmission would occur and, in addition, if the >>cummulative TSN ack >>point is less than the Advanced.Peer.Ack.Point that in addition to >>normal retransmission a FWD-TSN be bundled with any retransmitted DATA >>chunks indicating the Advanced.Peer.Ack.Point (again) to the receiver. >>This would be an additional rule, say A4. >> >>That is, one could make retransmission of the FWD-TSN subject to the >>same rules as would have applied to the DATA had it not been dropped. >> >>Coupled this with making the FWD-TSN at the receiver subject >>to the same >>rules visa vi SACK as the received DATA would have been >>subject. (This >>would also be an addition as Randall notes.) >> >>Then all cases of retransmission of FWD-TSN would be handled >>in the same >>fashion as the base protocol and none of these problems can any longer >>ensue. Modifications to SHUTDOWN would then no longer be required. >>Also, no additional timers would be required. >> >>One can then think of the FWD-TSN as a compressed placeholder for the >>DATA that was dropped. If the place holder is subject to the same >>retramission (t3-rtx) and acknowledgement (SACK) rules as the DATA it >>represents, then the only variation from the base protocol is that the >>data itself does not need to be retransmitted once expired, and the >>place holders for a number of DATA chunks can be represented >>in a single >>FWD-TSN. >> >>I think the change would be minor in implementation (not stop T3-rtx >>when only dropped data is outstanding and consider retransmission of >>FWD-TSN when considering DATA for retransmission). >> >>Note that the SHUTDOWN case is also handled (because now the >>FWD-TSN for >>the dropped TSN 97 would be retransmitted on T3-rtx, and >>T3-rtx would be >>restarted, retransmission pegs counted, ... just as though >>the data for >>TSN 97 were being retransmitted.) >> >>How does that sound? >> >>Is that a better and more complete solution proposal? >> >>--brian >> >>On Tue, 06 May 2003, Michael Tüxen wrote: >> >> >> >>>Hi all, >>> >>>Brians solution handles the case at the end of live of an >>> >>> >>association. >> >> >>>Consider this case: >>> >>>A sends TSN 0,1,2 on stream 0, all ordered. TSN 0 gets >>> >>> >>dropped in the >> >> >>>network. >>>TSN 1 and TSN 2 arrive and get SACKed. Now the sender drops (in the >>>sense of >>>PR-SCTP) TSN 0 and sends a FWD-TSN chunk which is dropped in the >>>network. >>>The sender now has no timers running, the receiver waits >>> >>> >>for TSN 0 to >> >> >>>deliver >>>TSN 1 and TSN 2 to the upper layer. >>> >>>This situation is not changed until the Upper Layer on the >>> >>> >>sender side >> >> >>>decides >>>to send more data or initiates the shutdown procedure. >>> >>>Did I miss something? >>> >>>Best regards >>>Michael >>> >>>On Monday, May 5, 2003, at 20:34 Europe/Berlin, Brian F. G. >>> >>> >>Bidulock >> >> >>>wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>>Randall, >>>> >>>>If the FWD-TSN is treated in the same fashion as DATA is in the >>>>base protocol with regard to the sending of SACK, in this case a >>>>SACK would already be required by the base protocol would it >>>>not? So I don't think that there is a need for an alteration in >>>>SACK processing. IHO the problem appears to be (as you allude) >>>>that for a normal DATA transmission there is a retransmit timer >>>>running whereas for FWD-TSN there is not. During normal data >>>>transmission during the association, this is not problematic >>>>because of the rules for sending subsequent FWD-TSN in receipt >>>>of SACK. It is only in this case where there is no further data >>>>to send. >>>> >>>>As this only appears to be a problem in this one situation (not >>>>subsequent DATA to send and no SACKs forthcoming), it might be >>>>possible to handle this with a SHUTDOWN rule such as follows: >>>> >>>>Whenever the PR-SCTP sender enters the SHUTDOWN-PENDING state, >>>>and there are only TSNs marked dropped for retransmission (for >>>>which FWD-TSNs have been sent) a SHUTDOWN chunk is sent and the >>>>sender enters the SHUTDOWN-SENT state. (The same for >>>>SHUTDOWN-RECEIVED and SHUTDOWN-ACK-SENT states.) >>>> >>>>Whenever the PR-SCTP receiver receives a SHUTDOWN or >>>>SHUTDOWN-ACK and there are gaps in its received TSN sequence >>>>(messages awaiting reordering before delivery to the user), it >>>>will treat the SHUTDOWN or SHUTDOWN-ACK though it were a forward >>>>TSN for all missing data chunks. >>>> >>>>The trick here is to not delay the SHUTDOWN (or SHUTDOWN-ACK) >>>>chunk being sent waiting for acknowledgement of dropped TSNs >>>>but to send it anyways with the knowledge that the receiver can >>>>imply any missing TSNs as having been dropped. >>>> >>>>I think this would better meet the intent of PR-SCTP (and in >>>>particular timed-reliability) as it does not rely on a timer to >>>>arrive at the implication of a missed FWD-TSN. The receipt of a >>>>SHUTDOWN or SHUTDOWN-ACK can be treated as an implied FWD-TSN >>>>for all outstanding data. >>>> >>>>Under the base protocol, what happens if a sender sends a >>>>SHUTDOWN chunk *before* all its sent data is acknowledged? I >>>>think an implementation could either complete the shutdown and >>>>discard data awaiting reordering, or ABORT the association. For >>>>PR-SCTP, receiving SHUTDOWN early could be construed as cause to >>>>mark as dropped all outstanding data, and move the cummulative >>>>ack point to the "highest" received TSN and complete the >>>>SHUTDOWN procedure. >>>> >>>>Does that make sense? >>>> >>>>So effectively the rules would be that a SHUTDOWN or >>>>SHUTDOWN-ACK should not be delayed in the SHUTDOWN-PENDING or >>>>SHUTDOWN-RECEIVED states solely on the basis of unacknowledged >>>>but "dropped" TSNs, and that a received SHUTDOWN or SHUTDOWN-ACK >>>>chunk that is otherwise valid should be construed by the >>>>receiver to have the same effect as a FWD-TSN dropping all >>>>outstanding TSNs. >>>> >>>>Is that simpler than a timer? >>>> >>>>--brian >>>> >>>> >>>>Whenever the receiver receives >>>> >>>> >>>>On Mon, 05 May 2003, Randall Stewart (cisco) wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>Ronnie: >>>>> >>>>>Nope, I don't think you are missing anything. I have >>>>> >>>>> >>been testing the >> >> >>>>>internal Cisco-IOS implementation of PR-SCTP against the >>>>> >>>>> >>KAME stack >> >> >>>>>and have reached the same conclusion. I think we need to >>>>> >>>>> >>require that >> >> >>>>>the >>>>>receiver of a FWD-TSN send a SACK in reponse to this. Otherwise >>>>>you have this deadlock scenario.... I have made the KAME stack >>>>>send the SACK.. but this then begs another question... >>>>> >>>>>If the SACK in the return path was lost (I am testing at >>>>> >>>>> >>times with >> >> >>>>>error rates set to 20%... so that happens a lot).. what do we do? >>>>> >>>>>It almost sounds like we need not only to require a FWD-TSN get >>>>>a SACK in response.. but that the sender of the FWD-TSN, if no >>>>>other data is being sent, start a timer to retransmit the FWD-TSN >>>>>if no SACK is received.. not sure if I worded that clear >>>>> >>>>> >>but I think >> >> >>>>>it will be needed... >>>>> >>>>>Co-authors.. what do you-all think? >>>>> >>>>>R >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Sellar, Ronnie wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>Hi, >>>>>> >>>>>>We have just started looking at PR-SCTP with a view to having a >>>>>>prototype >>>>>>implementation ready for the next Interop in Delaware >>>>>> >>>>>> >>and have come >> >> >>>>>>up with >>>>>>a question regarding the FORWARD-TSN chunk and how it >>>>>> >>>>>> >>could affect >> >> >>>>>>association termination. >>>>>> >>>>>>Consider the following example. Endpoint A has an >>>>>> >>>>>> >>association with >> >> >>>>>>endpoint >>>>>>B in which all the data it sends is ordered and marked as >>>>>>'unreliable' for >>>>>>whatever reason. Endpoint A has now sent all the data >>>>>> >>>>>> >>it wants to >> >> >>>>>>send to B >>>>>>but can't yet close the association because B has not yet >>>>>>acknowledged one >>>>>>of the TSNs. Lets say that it has transmitted TSNs >>>>>> >>>>>> >>1-100 but has >> >> >>>>>>not yet >>>>>>received an acknowledgement of TSN 97 since B has not >>>>>> >>>>>> >>yet received >> >> >>>>>>that TSN. >>>>>> >>>>>>In this situation A cannot yet send the SHUTDOWN since >>>>>> >>>>>> >>not all data >> >> >>>>>>is acked >>>>>>and B has three chunks it cannot deliver to it's user >>>>>> >>>>>> >>(98, 99 and >> >> >>>>>>100) since >>>>>>it has not received 97. When A receives the last SACK >>>>>> >>>>>> >>it decides >> >> >>>>>>that it no >>>>>>longer wants to retransmit chunk 97 and so issues a FORWARD-TSN >>>>>>chunk to >>>>>>move the cumulative ack TSN on to 100. How does A know that B >>>>>>received the >>>>>>FORWARD-TSN chunk ? There is no more data to send so B >>>>>> >>>>>> >>will not be >> >> >>>>>>sending >>>>>>any more SACKs. If B sends no more SACKs A's >>>>>> >>>>>> >>cumulative ack TSN >> >> >>>>>>will not >>>>>>advance and so he will not be able to send the SHUTDOWN chunk. >>>>>> >>>>>>In B's case when he receives the FORWARD-TSN he will be happy, >>>>>>deliver >>>>>>98-100 to the user and move his cumulative TSN forward. >>>>>> >>>>>> >> But he is >> >> >>>>>>not >>>>>>required to send a SACK to tell A he has done so. Are >>>>>> >>>>>> >>we now in a >> >> >>>>>>stalemate >>>>>>situation ? >>>>>> >>>>>>Also consider the case where B never receives the >>>>>> >>>>>> >>FORWARD-TSN. He >> >> >>>>>>is now >>>>>>stuck with 98-100 in his buffers which he cannot >>>>>> >>>>>> >>deliver since he >> >> >>>>>>doesn't >>>>>>know that 97 is not coming. Have we reached a similar >>>>>> >>>>>> >>stalemate ? >> >> >>>>>>Perhaps I'm missing something, but I do think there >>>>>> >>>>>> >>seems to be a >> >> >>>>>>problem if >>>>>>a FORWARD-TSN chunk is the last chunk to be transmitted on an >>>>>>association. >>>>>>Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. >>>>>> >>>>>>Cheers >>>>>> >>>>>>Ronnie >>>>>> >>>>>>--- >>>>>>Ronnie Sellar Artesyn Communications Products >>>>>>Tel: +44 131 475 7015 Suite 4, 2 Anderson Place >>>>>>Fax: +44 131 475 7001 Edinburgh EH6 5NP >>>>>>mailto:ronnie@artesyncp.com http://www.artesyncp.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>-- >>>>>Randall R. Stewart >>>>>ITD >>>>>Cisco Systems Inc. >>>>>rrs@cisco.com 815-342-5222(cell) or 815-477-2127(office) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>-- >>>>Brian F. G. Bidulock ¦ The reasonable man adapts >>>> >>>> >>himself to the ¦ >> >> >>>>bidulock@openss7.org ¦ world; the unreasonable one >>>> >>>> >>persists in ¦ >> >> >>>>http://www.openss7.org/ ¦ trying to adapt the world to >>>> >>>> >>himself. ¦ >> >> >>>> ¦ Therefore all progress >>>> >>>> >>depends on the ¦ >> >> >>>> ¦ unreasonable man. -- George >>>> >>>> >>Bernard Shaw ¦ >> >> >>-- >>Brian F. G. Bidulock ¦ The reasonable man adapts himself to the ¦ >>bidulock@openss7.org ¦ world; the unreasonable one persists in ¦ >>http://www.openss7.org/ ¦ trying to adapt the world to himself. ¦ >> ¦ Therefore all progress depends on the ¦ >> ¦ unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw ¦ >> >> > > > > -- Randall R. Stewart ITD Cisco Systems Inc. rrs@cisco.com 815-342-5222(cell) or 815-477-2127(office) From Michael.Tuexen@micmac.franken.de Tue May 6 10:27:57 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA24244 for ; Tue, 6 May 2003 10:27:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19D3SD-0007Ls-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 06 May 2003 10:30:01 -0400 Received: from sj-core-2.cisco.com ([171.71.177.254]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19D3SD-0007Lo-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 06 May 2003 10:30:01 -0400 Received: from sj-msg-av-3.cisco.com (sj-msg-av-3.cisco.com [171.69.17.42]) by sj-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h46DqdxI026222 for ; Tue, 6 May 2003 06:52:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from proxy2.cisco.com (proxy2.cisco.com [128.107.241.180]) by sj-msg-av-3.cisco.com (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h46DqckD008599 for ; Tue, 6 May 2003 06:52:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-n.franken.de (postfix@mail-n.franken.de [193.175.24.27]) by proxy2.cisco.com (8.12.8p1/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h46DnWTs017823 for ; Tue, 6 May 2003 06:49:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from micmac.franken.de (fb02np06.FH-Muenster.DE [194.95.73.131]) by mail-n.franken.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DCC0245D2; Tue, 6 May 2003 14:20:30 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 14:19:29 +0200 Subject: Re: PR-SCTP question. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Cc: "Randall Stewart (cisco)" , tsvwg@ietf.org, "Sellar, Ronnie" , "Sctp-Impl (E-mail)" , "Phillip T. Conrad" , Qiaobing Xie , "Michael A. Ramalho" To: bidulock@openss7.org From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Michael_T=FCxen?= In-Reply-To: <20030506030405.A7706@openss7.org> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ietf.org id KAA24244 Brian, sending a FWD-TSN chunk is from a SACK point of view equivalent to sending DATA chunks. That means that the timer handling should be the same for FWD-TSN and for DATA. In my example this would mean that you transmit the FWD-TSN chunk due to a T3_RTX timer event and you have to restart it. You do not need a new timer, but you have to start one and using T3_RTX is the one with the already defined procedures. So you should use that. Best regards Michael On Tuesday, May 6, 2003, at 11:04 Europe/Berlin, Brian F. G. Bidulock wrote: > Michael, > > Yes, I was thinking there might be a problem during transmission too. > > However, as t3-rtx is never running in this circumstance, yet the > sender > of the FWD-TSN can indeed expect a SACK within an RTO for the FWD-TSN. > > So, it would be possible to borrow the t3-rtx timer (rather than adding > a new one) to solve this siutation as follows: > > When the sender sends a FWD-TSN and there is no unacknowledged data > remaining, resulting from the dropped TSNs, that t3-rtx SHOULD NOT be > stopped. This would be an alteration to rule A2). > > In addition, when the t3-trx timer expires, normal base protocol > retransmission would occur and, in addition, if the cummulative TSN ack > point is less than the Advanced.Peer.Ack.Point that in addition to > normal retransmission a FWD-TSN be bundled with any retransmitted DATA > chunks indicating the Advanced.Peer.Ack.Point (again) to the receiver. > This would be an additional rule, say A4. > > That is, one could make retransmission of the FWD-TSN subject to the > same rules as would have applied to the DATA had it not been dropped. > > Coupled this with making the FWD-TSN at the receiver subject to the > same > rules visa vi SACK as the received DATA would have been subject. (This > would also be an addition as Randall notes.) > > Then all cases of retransmission of FWD-TSN would be handled in the > same > fashion as the base protocol and none of these problems can any longer > ensue. Modifications to SHUTDOWN would then no longer be required. > Also, no additional timers would be required. > > One can then think of the FWD-TSN as a compressed placeholder for the > DATA that was dropped. If the place holder is subject to the same > retramission (t3-rtx) and acknowledgement (SACK) rules as the DATA it > represents, then the only variation from the base protocol is that the > data itself does not need to be retransmitted once expired, and the > place holders for a number of DATA chunks can be represented in a > single > FWD-TSN. > > I think the change would be minor in implementation (not stop T3-rtx > when only dropped data is outstanding and consider retransmission of > FWD-TSN when considering DATA for retransmission). > > Note that the SHUTDOWN case is also handled (because now the FWD-TSN > for > the dropped TSN 97 would be retransmitted on T3-rtx, and T3-rtx would > be > restarted, retransmission pegs counted, ... just as though the data > for > TSN 97 were being retransmitted.) > > How does that sound? > > Is that a better and more complete solution proposal? > > --brian > > On Tue, 06 May 2003, Michael Tüxen wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> Brians solution handles the case at the end of live of an association. >> >> Consider this case: >> >> A sends TSN 0,1,2 on stream 0, all ordered. TSN 0 gets dropped in the >> network. >> TSN 1 and TSN 2 arrive and get SACKed. Now the sender drops (in the >> sense of >> PR-SCTP) TSN 0 and sends a FWD-TSN chunk which is dropped in the >> network. >> The sender now has no timers running, the receiver waits for TSN 0 to >> deliver >> TSN 1 and TSN 2 to the upper layer. >> >> This situation is not changed until the Upper Layer on the sender side >> decides >> to send more data or initiates the shutdown procedure. >> >> Did I miss something? >> >> Best regards >> Michael >> >> On Monday, May 5, 2003, at 20:34 Europe/Berlin, Brian F. G. Bidulock >> wrote: >> >>> Randall, >>> >>> If the FWD-TSN is treated in the same fashion as DATA is in the >>> base protocol with regard to the sending of SACK, in this case a >>> SACK would already be required by the base protocol would it >>> not? So I don't think that there is a need for an alteration in >>> SACK processing. IHO the problem appears to be (as you allude) >>> that for a normal DATA transmission there is a retransmit timer >>> running whereas for FWD-TSN there is not. During normal data >>> transmission during the association, this is not problematic >>> because of the rules for sending subsequent FWD-TSN in receipt >>> of SACK. It is only in this case where there is no further data >>> to send. >>> >>> As this only appears to be a problem in this one situation (not >>> subsequent DATA to send and no SACKs forthcoming), it might be >>> possible to handle this with a SHUTDOWN rule such as follows: >>> >>> Whenever the PR-SCTP sender enters the SHUTDOWN-PENDING state, >>> and there are only TSNs marked dropped for retransmission (for >>> which FWD-TSNs have been sent) a SHUTDOWN chunk is sent and the >>> sender enters the SHUTDOWN-SENT state. (The same for >>> SHUTDOWN-RECEIVED and SHUTDOWN-ACK-SENT states.) >>> >>> Whenever the PR-SCTP receiver receives a SHUTDOWN or >>> SHUTDOWN-ACK and there are gaps in its received TSN sequence >>> (messages awaiting reordering before delivery to the user), it >>> will treat the SHUTDOWN or SHUTDOWN-ACK though it were a forward >>> TSN for all missing data chunks. >>> >>> The trick here is to not delay the SHUTDOWN (or SHUTDOWN-ACK) >>> chunk being sent waiting for acknowledgement of dropped TSNs >>> but to send it anyways with the knowledge that the receiver can >>> imply any missing TSNs as having been dropped. >>> >>> I think this would better meet the intent of PR-SCTP (and in >>> particular timed-reliability) as it does not rely on a timer to >>> arrive at the implication of a missed FWD-TSN. The receipt of a >>> SHUTDOWN or SHUTDOWN-ACK can be treated as an implied FWD-TSN >>> for all outstanding data. >>> >>> Under the base protocol, what happens if a sender sends a >>> SHUTDOWN chunk *before* all its sent data is acknowledged? I >>> think an implementation could either complete the shutdown and >>> discard data awaiting reordering, or ABORT the association. For >>> PR-SCTP, receiving SHUTDOWN early could be construed as cause to >>> mark as dropped all outstanding data, and move the cummulative >>> ack point to the "highest" received TSN and complete the >>> SHUTDOWN procedure. >>> >>> Does that make sense? >>> >>> So effectively the rules would be that a SHUTDOWN or >>> SHUTDOWN-ACK should not be delayed in the SHUTDOWN-PENDING or >>> SHUTDOWN-RECEIVED states solely on the basis of unacknowledged >>> but "dropped" TSNs, and that a received SHUTDOWN or SHUTDOWN-ACK >>> chunk that is otherwise valid should be construed by the >>> receiver to have the same effect as a FWD-TSN dropping all >>> outstanding TSNs. >>> >>> Is that simpler than a timer? >>> >>> --brian >>> >>> >>> Whenever the receiver receives >>> >>> >>> On Mon, 05 May 2003, Randall Stewart (cisco) wrote: >>> >>>> Ronnie: >>>> >>>> Nope, I don't think you are missing anything. I have been testing >>>> the >>>> internal Cisco-IOS implementation of PR-SCTP against the KAME stack >>>> and have reached the same conclusion. I think we need to require >>>> that >>>> the >>>> receiver of a FWD-TSN send a SACK in reponse to this. Otherwise >>>> you have this deadlock scenario.... I have made the KAME stack >>>> send the SACK.. but this then begs another question... >>>> >>>> If the SACK in the return path was lost (I am testing at times with >>>> error rates set to 20%... so that happens a lot).. what do we do? >>>> >>>> It almost sounds like we need not only to require a FWD-TSN get >>>> a SACK in response.. but that the sender of the FWD-TSN, if no >>>> other data is being sent, start a timer to retransmit the FWD-TSN >>>> if no SACK is received.. not sure if I worded that clear but I think >>>> it will be needed... >>>> >>>> Co-authors.. what do you-all think? >>>> >>>> R >>>> >>>> >>>> Sellar, Ronnie wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi, >>>>> >>>>> We have just started looking at PR-SCTP with a view to having a >>>>> prototype >>>>> implementation ready for the next Interop in Delaware and have come >>>>> up with >>>>> a question regarding the FORWARD-TSN chunk and how it could affect >>>>> association termination. >>>>> >>>>> Consider the following example. Endpoint A has an association with >>>>> endpoint >>>>> B in which all the data it sends is ordered and marked as >>>>> 'unreliable' for >>>>> whatever reason. Endpoint A has now sent all the data it wants to >>>>> send to B >>>>> but can't yet close the association because B has not yet >>>>> acknowledged one >>>>> of the TSNs. Lets say that it has transmitted TSNs 1-100 but has >>>>> not yet >>>>> received an acknowledgement of TSN 97 since B has not yet received >>>>> that TSN. >>>>> >>>>> In this situation A cannot yet send the SHUTDOWN since not all data >>>>> is acked >>>>> and B has three chunks it cannot deliver to it's user (98, 99 and >>>>> 100) since >>>>> it has not received 97. When A receives the last SACK it decides >>>>> that it no >>>>> longer wants to retransmit chunk 97 and so issues a FORWARD-TSN >>>>> chunk to >>>>> move the cumulative ack TSN on to 100. How does A know that B >>>>> received the >>>>> FORWARD-TSN chunk ? There is no more data to send so B will not be >>>>> sending >>>>> any more SACKs. If B sends no more SACKs A's cumulative ack TSN >>>>> will not >>>>> advance and so he will not be able to send the SHUTDOWN chunk. >>>>> >>>>> In B's case when he receives the FORWARD-TSN he will be happy, >>>>> deliver >>>>> 98-100 to the user and move his cumulative TSN forward. But he is >>>>> not >>>>> required to send a SACK to tell A he has done so. Are we now in a >>>>> stalemate >>>>> situation ? >>>>> >>>>> Also consider the case where B never receives the FORWARD-TSN. He >>>>> is now >>>>> stuck with 98-100 in his buffers which he cannot deliver since he >>>>> doesn't >>>>> know that 97 is not coming. Have we reached a similar stalemate ? >>>>> >>>>> Perhaps I'm missing something, but I do think there seems to be a >>>>> problem if >>>>> a FORWARD-TSN chunk is the last chunk to be transmitted on an >>>>> association. >>>>> Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. >>>>> >>>>> Cheers >>>>> >>>>> Ronnie >>>>> >>>>> --- >>>>> Ronnie Sellar Artesyn Communications Products >>>>> Tel: +44 131 475 7015 Suite 4, 2 Anderson Place >>>>> Fax: +44 131 475 7001 Edinburgh EH6 5NP >>>>> mailto:ronnie@artesyncp.com http://www.artesyncp.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Randall R. Stewart >>>> ITD >>>> Cisco Systems Inc. >>>> rrs@cisco.com 815-342-5222(cell) or 815-477-2127(office) >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> Brian F. G. Bidulock ¦ The reasonable man adapts himself to the ¦ >>> bidulock@openss7.org ¦ world; the unreasonable one persists in ¦ >>> http://www.openss7.org/ ¦ trying to adapt the world to himself. ¦ >>> ¦ Therefore all progress depends on the ¦ >>> ¦ unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw ¦ >>> > > -- > Brian F. G. Bidulock ¦ The reasonable man adapts himself to the ¦ > bidulock@openss7.org ¦ world; the unreasonable one persists in ¦ > http://www.openss7.org/ ¦ trying to adapt the world to himself. ¦ > ¦ Therefore all progress depends on the ¦ > ¦ unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw ¦ > From Qiaobing.Xie@motorola.com Tue May 6 14:17:27 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA01839 for ; Tue, 6 May 2003 14:17:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19D72K-00019u-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 06 May 2003 14:19:32 -0400 Received: from sj-core-2.cisco.com ([171.71.177.254]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19D72K-00019f-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 06 May 2003 14:19:32 -0400 Received: from sj-msg-av-3.cisco.com (sj-msg-av-3.cisco.com [171.69.17.42]) by sj-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h46HfIxI010958 for ; Tue, 6 May 2003 10:41:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from proxy3.cisco.com (proxy3.cisco.com [128.107.241.181]) by sj-msg-av-3.cisco.com (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h46HfFkD002446 for ; Tue, 6 May 2003 10:41:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from motgate6.mot.com ([144.189.100.106]) by proxy3.cisco.com (8.12.8p1/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h46Hfmvq007528 for ; Tue, 6 May 2003 10:41:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from il06exr01.mot.com (il06exr01.mot.com [129.188.137.131]) by motgate6.mot.com (Motorola/Motgate6) with ESMTP id h46HEv1f011169 for ; Tue, 6 May 2003 10:14:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from il27exb01.cig.mot.com (il27exb01.cig.mot.com [136.182.15.100]) by il06exr01.mot.com (Motorola/il06exr01) with ESMTP id h46HEtac003616 for ; Tue, 6 May 2003 12:14:55 -0500 Received: from motorola.com (d50-39f8.cig.mot.com [160.47.57.248]) by il27exb01.cig.mot.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2656.59) id KK9Z7JR0; Tue, 6 May 2003 12:14:55 -0500 Message-ID: <3EB7EDFD.97CAA0CC@motorola.com> Date: Tue, 06 May 2003 12:16:45 -0500 From: Qiaobing Xie X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.8 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Randall Stewart (cisco)" CC: Sellar@il06exr01.mot.com, Ronnie , "'bidulock@openss7.org'" , Michael =?iso-8859-1?Q?T=FCxen?= , tsvwg@ietf.org, Sctp-Impl (E-mail) , "Phillip T. Conrad" , "Michael A. Ramalho" Subject: Re: PR-SCTP question. References: <797470E884C6D611B7A500B0D0AA56D04426F4@batistuta.spider.com> <3EB7A31A.3020500@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Randall Stewart (cisco)" wrote: > > Ronnie/Brian: > > I think this is the correct solution... > > It then requires: > > 1) A note on the receiver side .. aka handle like data .. you must start the > sack timer etc > > and > > 2) A note on the sender side.. aka you don't stop the t3-timer if there > is no outstanding data.. and when the t3-timer goes off you should > send a fwd-tsn as well as any retransmmitted data.. > > I will see if I can't cut and past from this email and do a bit > of massaging to get the proper notes in the document.. > > I too view the FWD-TSN as nothing but a compressed "heres the data > I am skipping and not sending"... This is indeed a good way to look at it. And I think the solution summarized by Brian and Randy is the right approach. -Qiaobing > > R > > From peterlei@cisco.com Tue May 6 15:54:51 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA06143; Tue, 6 May 2003 15:54:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19D8YZ-0001oG-00; Tue, 06 May 2003 15:56:55 -0400 Received: from sj-core-2.cisco.com ([171.71.177.254]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19D8YY-0001nr-00; Tue, 06 May 2003 15:56:54 -0400 Received: from mira-sjc5-c.cisco.com (IDENT:mirapoint@mira-sjc5-c.cisco.com [171.71.163.17]) by sj-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h46JhLxI026902; Tue, 6 May 2003 12:43:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cisco.com (sjc-vpn4-351.cisco.com [10.21.81.95]) by mira-sjc5-c.cisco.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.3.3-GR) with ESMTP id AGW76644; Tue, 6 May 2003 12:43:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3EB81046.95EC129A@cisco.com> Date: Tue, 06 May 2003 14:43:02 -0500 From: Peter Lei X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en]C-CCK-MCD (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Qiaobing Xie CC: Randall Stewart (cisco) , Sellar@il06exr01.mot.com, Ronnie , "'bidulock@openss7.org'" , Michael =?iso-8859-1?Q?T=FCxen?= , tsvwg@ietf.org, Sctp-Impl (E-mail) , "Phillip T. Conrad" , "Michael A. Ramalho" Subject: Re: PR-SCTP question. References: <797470E884C6D611B7A500B0D0AA56D04426F4@batistuta.spider.com> <3EB7A31A.3020500@cisco.com> <3EB7EDFD.97CAA0CC@motorola.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Qiaobing Xie wrote: > > "Randall Stewart (cisco)" wrote: > > > > Ronnie/Brian: > > > > I think this is the correct solution... > > > > It then requires: > > > > 1) A note on the receiver side .. aka handle like data .. you must start the > > sack timer etc > > > > and > > > > 2) A note on the sender side.. aka you don't stop the t3-timer if there > > is no outstanding data.. and when the t3-timer goes off you should > > send a fwd-tsn as well as any retransmmitted data.. > > > > I will see if I can't cut and past from this email and do a bit > > of massaging to get the proper notes in the document.. > > > > I too view the FWD-TSN as nothing but a compressed "heres the data > > I am skipping and not sending"... > > This is indeed a good way to look at it. And I think the solution > summarized by Brian and Randy is the right approach. > > -Qiaobing Looks like the right (and straight-forware) solution to me as well... --peter > > > > R > > > > From rrs@cisco.com Tue May 6 16:23:33 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA07086; Tue, 6 May 2003 16:23:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19D90L-00022r-00; Tue, 06 May 2003 16:25:37 -0400 Received: from sj-core-2.cisco.com ([171.71.177.254]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19D90L-00022n-00; Tue, 06 May 2003 16:25:37 -0400 Received: from mira-sjc5-c.cisco.com (IDENT:mirapoint@mira-sjc5-c.cisco.com [171.71.163.17]) by sj-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h46KBpxI012028; Tue, 6 May 2003 13:11:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cisco.com (ssh-sjc-1.cisco.com [171.68.225.134]) by mira-sjc5-c.cisco.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.3.3-GR) with ESMTP id AGW81127; Tue, 6 May 2003 13:11:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3EB81704.7000904@cisco.com> Date: Tue, 06 May 2003 15:11:48 -0500 From: "Randall Stewart (cisco)" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030502 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Qiaobing Xie CC: Sellar@az33exr01.mot.com, Ronnie , "'bidulock@openss7.org'" , =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Michael_T=FCxen?= , tsvwg@ietf.org, "Sctp-Impl (E-mail)" , "Phillip T. Conrad" , "Michael A. Ramalho" Subject: Re: PR-SCTP question. References: <797470E884C6D611B7A500B0D0AA56D04426F4@batistuta.spider.com> <3EB7A31A.3020500@cisco.com> <3EB7EDFD.97CAA0CC@motorola.com> In-Reply-To: <3EB7EDFD.97CAA0CC@motorola.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear all: I have made what I think are the appropriate changes and I would like you all to take a look. I have put up on http://www.sctp.org under the RFC page tab A web link that will take you to a very nice diff of the 02/03 version. Please take a few moments to look at the diff's and suggest any changes I would like to get this sumbitted by Friday. R Qiaobing Xie wrote: >"Randall Stewart (cisco)" wrote: > > >>Ronnie/Brian: >> >>I think this is the correct solution... >> >>It then requires: >> >>1) A note on the receiver side .. aka handle like data .. you must start the >> sack timer etc >> >>and >> >>2) A note on the sender side.. aka you don't stop the t3-timer if there >> is no outstanding data.. and when the t3-timer goes off you should >> send a fwd-tsn as well as any retransmmitted data.. >> >>I will see if I can't cut and past from this email and do a bit >>of massaging to get the proper notes in the document.. >> >>I too view the FWD-TSN as nothing but a compressed "heres the data >>I am skipping and not sending"... >> >> > >This is indeed a good way to look at it. And I think the solution >summarized by Brian and Randy is the right approach. > >-Qiaobing > > > > >>R >> >> >> >> > > > -- Randall R. Stewart ITD Cisco Systems Inc. rrs@cisco.com 815-342-5222(cell) or 815-477-2127(office) From 9n05d7r6l@qatarmail.com Tue May 6 23:16:58 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA18845 for ; Tue, 6 May 2003 23:16:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19DFSQ-0004iM-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 06 May 2003 23:19:02 -0400 Received: from sj-core-2.cisco.com ([171.71.177.254]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19DFSP-0004iI-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 06 May 2003 23:19:01 -0400 Received: from sj-msg-av-2.cisco.com (sj-msg-av-2.cisco.com [171.70.145.31]) by sj-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h472eRxI025671 for ; Tue, 6 May 2003 19:40:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from proxy3.cisco.com (proxy3.cisco.com [128.107.241.181]) by sj-msg-av-2.cisco.com (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h472c2Qn004012 for ; Tue, 6 May 2003 19:38:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 0x50a126c9.hrnxx5.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk (0x50a126c9.hrnxx5.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk [80.161.38.201]) by proxy3.cisco.com (8.12.8p1/8.11.2) with SMTP id h472cOvq008119 for ; Tue, 6 May 2003 19:38:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from s17xv.eq3g55.net ([95.190.3.199]) by 0x50a126c9.hrnxx5.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk SMTP id qTFsxJOfWth0bQ; Wed, 07 May 2003 09:38:15 +0600 Message-ID: From: "Grace Posey" <9n05d7r6l@qatarmail.com> To: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Subject: [Spam] Company needs work at home people. no experience dejygtlrwm rcysyy Date: Wed, 07 May 03 09:38:15 GMT X-Priority: 1 X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="36996_..1_EB.C" X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQBMLBo= X-SPAM: Yes This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --36996_..1_EB.C Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Untitled Document

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    hpd cocejp sdxcn zrjs xosxdfiumhx qe zqjolaiq qe ooyf --36996_..1_EB.C-- From Ivan.Arias-Rodriguez@nokia.com Wed May 7 11:53:14 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA06452 for ; Wed, 7 May 2003 11:53:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Ivan.Arias-Rodriguez@nokia.com Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19DRGH-0002XA-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 07 May 2003 11:55:17 -0400 Received: from sj-core-5.cisco.com ([171.71.177.238]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19DRGG-0002Wy-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 07 May 2003 11:55:17 -0400 Received: from sj-msg-av-2.cisco.com (sj-msg-av-2.cisco.com [171.70.145.31]) by sj-core-5.cisco.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h47Ci2IF020886 for ; Wed, 7 May 2003 05:44:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from proxy1.cisco.com (proxy1.cisco.com [128.107.241.179]) by sj-msg-av-2.cisco.com (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h47ChZQn013292 for ; Wed, 7 May 2003 05:43:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mgw-x1.nokia.com (mgw-x1.nokia.com [131.228.20.21]) by proxy1.cisco.com (8.12.8p1/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h47CgjYx017177 for ; Wed, 7 May 2003 05:42:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from esvir01nok.ntc.nokia.com (esvir01nokt.ntc.nokia.com [172.21.143.33]) by mgw-x1.nokia.com (Switch-2.2.6/Switch-2.2.6) with ESMTP id h47CK5713051 for ; Wed, 7 May 2003 15:20:05 +0300 (EET DST) Received: from esebh004.NOE.Nokia.com (unverified) by esvir01nok.ntc.nokia.com (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.2.5) with ESMTP id ; Wed, 7 May 2003 15:20:04 +0300 Received: from esebh005.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.21.138.86]) by esebh004.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6139); Wed, 7 May 2003 15:20:03 +0300 Received: from esebe018.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.21.138.57]) by esebh005.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6139); Wed, 7 May 2003 15:20:03 +0300 Received: from esebe022.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.21.138.113]) by esebe018.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6139); Wed, 7 May 2003 15:20:02 +0300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6375.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: RE: PR-SCTP question. Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 15:20:01 +0300 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: PR-SCTP question. Thread-Index: AcMUDgYMvjl1KDbmSiOXE6Cf7rLJ5gAgKn5g To: , Cc: , , , , , , , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 May 2003 12:20:02.0563 (UTC) FILETIME=[FC352D30:01C31492] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ietf.org id LAA06452 Hi all! I cannot see that new document because it seems there is a problem with the server (HTTP 500 - Internal server error) However, I support the idea of Michael... If you treat the FWD-TSN as actually sending the TSNs, you just share the T3 timer and you don't add any extra complication... This way you continue keeping the "logic" of the protocol, not adding special rules for PR-SCTP that might not be very straightforward to guess... So I think that whenever you mark a TSN as dropped (probably when T3 timer expires or even due to FR), you send the FWD-TSN chunk (if possible to a secondary address as happens with the DATA chunks) and (re)start the T3 timer (of that address to which you sent the chunk). I'm thinking that if all your packets have a lifespan of let's say 200 ms, you could even modify the value of RTO.Min to that value so you quickly drop the stale TSNs... Everything is the same as when sending DATA chunks, except for the congestion parameters that don't change upon receipt of a SACK originated by a FWD-TSN. If the T3 timer expires again on already dropped TSNs (and so you have already sent the FWD-TSN) you should also update the RTO and cut down the cwnd and so on as usual, since this really means that the chunk was effectively lost (you didn't receive the SACK). This way, the stated problem would disappear, and in my opinion, everything would look more homogeneous and easier... What do you think? Thanks! BR Iván Arias Rodríguez > -----Original Message----- > From: ext Randall Stewart (cisco) [mailto:rrs@cisco.com] > Sent: Tuesday, 06 May, 2003 23:12 > To: Qiaobing Xie > Cc: Sellar@az33exr01.mot.com; Ronnie; 'bidulock@openss7.org'; Michael > Tüxen; tsvwg@ietf.org; Sctp-Impl (E-mail); Phillip T. Conrad; > Michael A. > Ramalho > Subject: Re: PR-SCTP question. > > > Dear all: > > I have made what I think are the appropriate changes and I would > like you all to take a look. I have put up on > > http://www.sctp.org > > under the RFC page tab > > A web link that will take you to a very nice diff of the > 02/03 version. > > Please take a few moments to look at the diff's and suggest > any changes > > I would like to get this sumbitted by Friday. > > R > > > > > Qiaobing Xie wrote: > > >"Randall Stewart (cisco)" wrote: > > > > > >>Ronnie/Brian: > >> > >>I think this is the correct solution... > >> > >>It then requires: > >> > >>1) A note on the receiver side .. aka handle like data .. > you must start the > >> sack timer etc > >> > >>and > >> > >>2) A note on the sender side.. aka you don't stop the > t3-timer if there > >> is no outstanding data.. and when the t3-timer goes > off you should > >> send a fwd-tsn as well as any retransmmitted data.. > >> > >>I will see if I can't cut and past from this email and do a bit > >>of massaging to get the proper notes in the document.. > >> > >>I too view the FWD-TSN as nothing but a compressed "heres the data > >>I am skipping and not sending"... > >> > >> > > > >This is indeed a good way to look at it. And I think the solution > >summarized by Brian and Randy is the right approach. > > > >-Qiaobing > > > > > > > > > >>R > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > -- > Randall R. Stewart > ITD > Cisco Systems Inc. > rrs@cisco.com 815-342-5222(cell) or 815-477-2127(office) > > > From randall@stewart.chicago.il.us Wed May 7 12:14:12 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA07033 for ; Wed, 7 May 2003 12:14:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19DRaa-0002gB-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 07 May 2003 12:16:16 -0400 Received: from sj-core-1.cisco.com ([171.71.177.237]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19DRaZ-0002fo-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 07 May 2003 12:16:15 -0400 Received: from sj-msg-av-2.cisco.com (sj-msg-av-2.cisco.com [171.70.145.31]) by sj-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h47FkrO9024688 for ; Wed, 7 May 2003 08:46:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from proxy1.cisco.com (proxy1.cisco.com [128.107.241.179]) by sj-msg-av-2.cisco.com (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h47FkWQn020774 for ; Wed, 7 May 2003 08:46:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from stewart.chicago.il.us (stewart.chicago.il.us [66.93.186.36]) by proxy1.cisco.com (8.12.8p1/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h47FkcYx015094 for ; Wed, 7 May 2003 08:46:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from stewart.chicago.il.us (stewart.chicago.il.us [127.0.0.1]) by stewart.chicago.il.us (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h47Fd3qh005358; Wed, 7 May 2003 10:39:07 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from randall@stewart.chicago.il.us) Message-ID: <3EB92897.8070407@stewart.chicago.il.us> Date: Wed, 07 May 2003 10:39:03 -0500 From: Randall Stewart User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030502 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ivan.Arias-Rodriguez@nokia.com CC: rrs@cisco.com, Qiaobing.Xie@motorola.com, Sellar@az33exr01.mot.com, ronnie@artesyncp.com, bidulock@openss7.org, tuexen@fh-muenster.de, tsvwg@ietf.org, sctp-impl@external.cisco.com, conrad@acm.org, mramalho@cisco.com Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] RE: PR-SCTP question. References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by sj-core-1.cisco.com id h47FkrO9024688 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ietf.org id MAA07033 Hmm.. I will have to go have a look at what is going on in my server.. I will send you (and anywone esle that requests it) a copy of the html Thanks R Ivan.Arias-Rodriguez@nokia.com wrote: > Hi all! > > I cannot see that new document because it seems there is a problem with the server (HTTP 500 - Internal server error) > > However, I support the idea of Michael... If you treat the FWD-TSN as actually sending the TSNs, you just share the T3 timer and you don't add any extra complication... > > This way you continue keeping the "logic" of the protocol, not adding special rules for PR-SCTP that might not be very straightforward to guess... > > So I think that whenever you mark a TSN as dropped (probably when T3 timer expires or even due to FR), you send the FWD-TSN chunk (if possible to a secondary address as happens with the DATA chunks) and (re)start the T3 timer (of that address to which you sent the chunk). I'm thinking that if all your packets have a lifespan of let's say 200 ms, you could even modify the value of RTO.Min to that value so you quickly drop the stale TSNs... > > Everything is the same as when sending DATA chunks, except for the congestion parameters that don't change upon receipt of a SACK originated by a FWD-TSN. If the T3 timer expires again on already dropped TSNs (and so you have already sent the FWD-TSN) you should also update the RTO and cut down the cwnd and so on as usual, since this really means that the chunk was effectively lost (you didn't receive the SACK). > > This way, the stated problem would disappear, and in my opinion, everything would look more homogeneous and easier... What do you think? > > Thanks! > > BR Iván Arias Rodríguez > > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: ext Randall Stewart (cisco) [mailto:rrs@cisco.com] >>Sent: Tuesday, 06 May, 2003 23:12 >>To: Qiaobing Xie >>Cc: Sellar@az33exr01.mot.com; Ronnie; 'bidulock@openss7.org'; Michael >>Tüxen; tsvwg@ietf.org; Sctp-Impl (E-mail); Phillip T. Conrad; >>Michael A. >>Ramalho >>Subject: Re: PR-SCTP question. >> >> >>Dear all: >> >>I have made what I think are the appropriate changes and I would >>like you all to take a look. I have put up on >> >>http://www.sctp.org >> >>under the RFC page tab >> >>A web link that will take you to a very nice diff of the >>02/03 version. >> >>Please take a few moments to look at the diff's and suggest >>any changes >> >>I would like to get this sumbitted by Friday. >> >>R >> >> >> >> >>Qiaobing Xie wrote: >> >> >>>"Randall Stewart (cisco)" wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>>Ronnie/Brian: >>>> >>>>I think this is the correct solution... >>>> >>>>It then requires: >>>> >>>>1) A note on the receiver side .. aka handle like data .. >> >>you must start the >> >>>> sack timer etc >>>> >>>>and >>>> >>>>2) A note on the sender side.. aka you don't stop the >> >>t3-timer if there >> >>>> is no outstanding data.. and when the t3-timer goes >> >>off you should >> >>>> send a fwd-tsn as well as any retransmmitted data.. >>>> >>>>I will see if I can't cut and past from this email and do a bit >>>>of massaging to get the proper notes in the document.. >>>> >>>>I too view the FWD-TSN as nothing but a compressed "heres the data >>>>I am skipping and not sending"... >>>> >>>> >>> >>>This is indeed a good way to look at it. And I think the solution >>>summarized by Brian and Randy is the right approach. >>> >>>-Qiaobing >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>R >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >>-- >>Randall R. Stewart >>ITD >>Cisco Systems Inc. >>rrs@cisco.com 815-342-5222(cell) or 815-477-2127(office) >> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > tsvwg mailing list > tsvwg@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tsvwg > > -- Randall R. Stewart randall@stewart.chicago.il.us 815-342-5222 (cell phone) From ronnie@artesyncp.com Wed May 7 12:34:49 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA07703 for ; Wed, 7 May 2003 12:34:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19DRuX-0002oF-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 07 May 2003 12:36:53 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com ([64.102.124.12]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19DRuW-0002o5-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 07 May 2003 12:36:52 -0400 Received: from sj-msg-av-1.cisco.com (sj-msg-av-1.cisco.com [171.69.11.151]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h47G8h7H014600 for ; Wed, 7 May 2003 12:08:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from proxy3.cisco.com (proxy3.cisco.com [128.107.241.181]) by sj-msg-av-1.cisco.com (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h47G54Xo002330 for ; Wed, 7 May 2003 09:05:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bifrost.spider.com ([194.217.109.12]) by proxy3.cisco.com (8.12.8p1/8.11.2) with SMTP id h47G5deM025031 for ; Wed, 7 May 2003 09:05:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from no.name.available by bifrost.spider.com via smtpd (for proxy3.cisco.com [128.107.241.181]) with SMTP; 7 May 2003 16:05:02 UT Received: from heimdall-dmz.spider.com (batistuta.spider.com [212.240.99.13]) by caly80.spider.com (Postfix) with SMTP id AED0E6F81; Wed, 7 May 2003 16:34:35 +0100 (BST) Received: from batistuta.spider.com by heimdall-dmz.spider.com via smtpd (for [172.16.254.22]) with SMTP; 7 May 2003 15:38:46 UT Received: by batistuta.spider.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Wed, 7 May 2003 16:35:56 +0100 Message-ID: <797470E884C6D611B7A500B0D0AA56D0442704@batistuta.spider.com> From: "Sellar, Ronnie" To: "'Randall Stewart (cisco)'" , Qiaobing Xie Cc: "'bidulock@openss7.org'" , =?iso-8859-1?Q?Michael_T=FCxen?= , tsvwg@ietf.org, "Sctp-Impl (E-mail)" , "Phillip T. Conrad" , "Michael A. Ramalho" Subject: RE: PR-SCTP question. Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 16:35:48 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ietf.org id MAA07703 Randall: One further question. Does the advanced.peer.ack.point get moved backwards if acked data that it relies on is reneged ? This doesn't seem to be mentioned in the draft. One or two typos: in rule A2) there's and 'rxt' that should be an 'rtx', and in section 3.4 there is a "drop" which perhaps should be an "abandon". Thanks Ronnie PS I'm not in the office again till Monday but Gavin Shearer will be monitoring the newsgroup. --- Ronnie Sellar Artesyn Communications Products Tel: +44 131 475 7015 Suite 4, 2 Anderson Place Fax: +44 131 475 7001 Edinburgh EH6 5NP mailto:ronnie@artesyncp.com http://www.artesyncp.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Randall Stewart (cisco) [mailto:rrs@cisco.com] > Sent: 06 May 2003 21:12 > To: Qiaobing Xie > Cc: Sellar@az33exr01.mot.com; Ronnie; 'bidulock@openss7.org'; Michael > Tüxen; tsvwg@ietf.org; Sctp-Impl (E-mail); Phillip T. Conrad; > Michael A. > Ramalho > Subject: Re: PR-SCTP question. > > > Dear all: > > I have made what I think are the appropriate changes and I would > like you all to take a look. I have put up on > > http://www.sctp.org > > under the RFC page tab > > A web link that will take you to a very nice diff of the > 02/03 version. > > Please take a few moments to look at the diff's and suggest > any changes > > I would like to get this sumbitted by Friday. > > R > > > > > Qiaobing Xie wrote: > > >"Randall Stewart (cisco)" wrote: > > > > > >>Ronnie/Brian: > >> > >>I think this is the correct solution... > >> > >>It then requires: > >> > >>1) A note on the receiver side .. aka handle like data .. > you must start the > >> sack timer etc > >> > >>and > >> > >>2) A note on the sender side.. aka you don't stop the > t3-timer if there > >> is no outstanding data.. and when the t3-timer goes > off you should > >> send a fwd-tsn as well as any retransmmitted data.. > >> > >>I will see if I can't cut and past from this email and do a bit > >>of massaging to get the proper notes in the document.. > >> > >>I too view the FWD-TSN as nothing but a compressed "heres the data > >>I am skipping and not sending"... > >> > >> > > > >This is indeed a good way to look at it. And I think the solution > >summarized by Brian and Randy is the right approach. > > > >-Qiaobing > > > > > > > > > >>R > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > -- > Randall R. Stewart > ITD > Cisco Systems Inc. > rrs@cisco.com 815-342-5222(cell) or 815-477-2127(office) > > From johnmomodu111@ecplaza.net Wed May 7 20:15:04 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA24953 for ; Wed, 7 May 2003 20:15:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19DZ5w-0006Ry-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 07 May 2003 20:17:08 -0400 Received: from sj-core-5.cisco.com ([171.71.177.238]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19DZ5v-0006Rv-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 07 May 2003 20:17:07 -0400 Received: from sj-msg-av-1.cisco.com (sj-msg-av-1.cisco.com [171.69.11.151]) by sj-core-5.cisco.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h4806CwE012914 for ; Wed, 7 May 2003 17:06:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from proxy3.cisco.com (proxy3.cisco.com [128.107.241.181]) by sj-msg-av-1.cisco.com (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h4806AXo017006 for ; Wed, 7 May 2003 17:06:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ecplaza.net ([203.242.200.150]) by proxy3.cisco.com (8.12.8p1/8.11.2) with SMTP id h4806kYV028001 for ; 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    DR=2EJOHN MOMODU=2E

    DEAR SIR/MADAM=2E

    we are sending this letter to you base on information gathered from the for= iegn trade office of the nigeria chamber of commerce and industry=2E
    I would like to firstly send to you the best wishes of good health and succ= ess in your pursuits particularly through my proposal as contained in this = letter=2E
    Before going into details of my proposal to you, I must first implore you t= o treat with the utmost confidentiality as this is required for its success= and to have faith in this transaction,for opportunities like this only com= es to one once in a life time=2E My colleagues and I are senior officials o= f the Federal Government of my country's Contracts Review Panel (CRP) w= ho are interested in diverting some funds that are presently floating in th= e accounts of the Apex Bank of my country=2EIn order to commence this trans= action, we solicit for your assistance to enable us transfer into your nomi= nated account the said floating funds=2E We are determined to conclude the = transfer before the end of this quarter of 2003=2E
    The source of the funds are as follows: During the last military regime in = my country,government officials set up companies and awarded themselves con= tracts that were grossly over-invoiced in various ministries and parastatal= s=2EThe present civilian government set up the Contract Review Panel, which= has the mandate to use the instruments of payments made available to it by= the decree setting up the panel, to review these contracts and if necessar= y pay those who are being owed outstanding amounts=2E
    My colleagues and I have identified quite a huge sum of these funds which a= re presently floating in our (Apex) Central Bank ready for ensbursement and= would like to divert some of it for our own purposes=2E However, by virtue= of our positions as civil servants and members of this panel, we cannot ac= quire these funds in our names or in the names of companies that are based = in my country=2E I have therefore been mandated,as a matter of trust by my = colleagues in the panel, to look for a reliable overseas partner into whose= account we can transfer the sum of U=2ES=2E$20,500,000=2E00 (Twenty millio= n, five hundred thousand U=2ES=2E dollars)=2EThat is why I am seeking your = assistance=2E We have agreed to share the money to be transferred into your= account, if you agree with our proposition as follows;
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    you and us) incidental to the actualization of this project=2E
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    Best regards,
    JOHN MOMODU=2E
      


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     -------86D.LNURE6QQDQCN86XUPTJPSPTXBYS-- From gavin@artesyncp.com Thu May 8 06:11:26 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA18693 for ; Thu, 8 May 2003 06:11:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19DiP3-00021Y-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 08 May 2003 06:13:29 -0400 Received: from sj-core-1.cisco.com ([171.71.177.237]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19DiP2-00021H-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 08 May 2003 06:13:28 -0400 Received: from sj-msg-av-3.cisco.com (sj-msg-av-3.cisco.com [171.69.17.42]) by sj-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h489ft9M000831 for ; Thu, 8 May 2003 02:41:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from proxy3.cisco.com (proxy3.cisco.com [128.107.241.181]) by sj-msg-av-3.cisco.com (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h489fskD004121 for ; Thu, 8 May 2003 02:41:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bifrost.spider.com ([194.217.109.12]) by proxy3.cisco.com (8.12.8p1/8.11.2) with SMTP id h489gSYV018980 for ; Thu, 8 May 2003 02:42:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from no.name.available by bifrost.spider.com via smtpd (for proxy3.cisco.com [128.107.241.181]) with SMTP; 8 May 2003 09:41:51 UT Received: from heimdall-dmz.spider.com (batistuta.spider.com [212.240.99.13]) by caly80.spider.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 6B4E46F80 for ; Thu, 8 May 2003 10:11:25 +0100 (BST) Received: from batistuta.spider.com by heimdall-dmz.spider.com via smtpd (for [172.16.254.22]) with SMTP; 8 May 2003 09:15:37 UT Received: from lenny.spider.com ([212.240.99.106]) by batistuta.spider.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id HJT965DN; Thu, 8 May 2003 10:12:45 +0100 Received: from localhost (gavin@localhost) by lenny.spider.com (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA17682 for ; Thu, 8 May 2003 10:15:37 +0100 (BST) X-Authentication-Warning: lenny.spider.com: gavin owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 10:15:24 +0100 (BST) From: Gavin Shearer X-X-Sender: gavin@lenny.spider.com To: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Subject: RE: PR-SCTP question (T3 timers) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I have some queries/suggestions about handling the T3 timer(s) with PR-SCTP. As each destination address has a T3 timer, there can be multiple T3 timers running if you are sending to different destination addresses of the peer. Therefore, as the draft/updates are worded, it is unclear which T3 timer is stopped and the expiry of which causes sending again of a F-TSN. (If it was all T3 timers which caused sending again, you may send the F-TSN more than once even if you do not need to.) Therefore, carrying on with the theme of treating the packet as summary of data, I would think it makes sense for the F-TSN to be treated like the bundling of the abandoned chunks being retransmitted to a particular address. Therefore the T3 timer handling would be handled in the same way. This means you would start the T3 timer for the destination address of the F-TSN if not already running. So, when a T3 timer expires you would only send the F-TSN again if the T3 timer expired for the address sent the F-TSN. (This could be implemented by checking that this is the address at least one abandoned chunk was last "sent" to, if you note the address a chunk is sent to in the same way as (re)transmitting a chunk). Of course, if you re-send the F-TSN to an alternative address, then the F-TSN will be noted as outstanding on that address, in the same manner as you would treat retransmitting DATA to an alternative address. I think this would change the wording of: A2) You would not say that the T3-rtx timer is not stopped - i.e. remove that line. [I think this would be the case, as when retransmitting you do not stop the T3 timer of an earlier address when retransmitting on an alternative address, see RFC2960 6.3.3 F1).] For the new paragraph covering sending due to the T3 expiring you would put in an additional condition of the T3-rtx timer expiring for the destination address sent the F-TSN. C3) You would say that sending the F-TSN is treated like retransmission of the abandoned chunks when handling the T3-timers. You may want to emphasize that the T3 timer for the destination address should be started if not already running. Gavin --- Gavin Shearer, Suite 4, gavin@artesyncp.com Project Leader, 2 Anderson Place, +44 131 475 7017 Artesyn Communication Products Edinburgh, EH6 5NP From bidulock@openss7.org Thu May 8 07:04:33 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA19642 for ; Thu, 8 May 2003 07:04:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19DjER-0002EU-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 08 May 2003 07:06:35 -0400 Received: from sj-core-5.cisco.com ([171.71.177.238]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19DjER-0002ER-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 08 May 2003 07:06:35 -0400 Received: from sj-msg-av-3.cisco.com (sj-msg-av-3.cisco.com [171.69.17.42]) by sj-core-5.cisco.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h48AgawE016865 for ; Thu, 8 May 2003 03:42:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from proxy3.cisco.com (proxy3.cisco.com [128.107.241.181]) by sj-msg-av-3.cisco.com (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h48AgYkD014663 for ; Thu, 8 May 2003 03:42:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gw.openss7.com (IDENT:YBEK31h/OWjxD5GZLuPdaejrvXvmGAYO@gw.openss7.com [142.179.199.224]) by proxy3.cisco.com (8.12.8p1/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h48AhBYV023462 for ; Thu, 8 May 2003 03:43:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.pigworks.openss7.net (IDENT:Gy5IfOFv5NBDIUs2lTj7ry19BRIyNRfx@ns1.evil.openss7.net [192.168.9.1]) by gw.openss7.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h48AaVl31684; Thu, 8 May 2003 04:36:31 -0600 Received: (from brian@localhost) by ns.pigworks.openss7.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h48AaUU26982; Thu, 8 May 2003 04:36:30 -0600 Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 04:36:30 -0600 From: "Brian F. G. Bidulock" To: Gavin Shearer Cc: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com, tsvwg@ietf.org Subject: Re: PR-SCTP question (T3 timers) Message-ID: <20030508043630.A26708@openss7.org> Reply-To: bidulock@openss7.org References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: ; from gavin@artesyncp.com on Thu, May 08, 2003 at 10:15:24AM +0100 Organization: http://www.openss7.org/ Dsn-Notification-To: Return-Receipt-To: X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by sj-core-5.cisco.com id h48AgawE016865 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ietf.org id HAA19642 Gavin, That's what I did too. It makes sense. However, if a new FWD TSN is sent (because new TSNs are dropped pushing the advanced ack point), I also cancel the fact that a previous FWD TSN was outstanding against the destination to which the previous FWD TSN was sent. We might now consider that FWD TSNs need not be delayed for bundling by 200 to 500 ms. In fact if the TSNs are marked dropped and an FWD TSN is to be transmitted on t3-rtx timeout, we might as well only wait for the normal t3-rtx timeout (even if it is greater than 500ms) before sending the FWD TSN. This would have the effect of bundling the FWD TSN with unexpired retransmitted TSNs, or at worst only retransmitting the FWD TSN once an RTO and would back off sending of FWD TSNs during periods of congestion rather than sending every 200-500 ms without data (no back off). Is the 200-500ms still in the new draft? --brian On Thu, 08 May 2003, Gavin Shearer wrote: > I have some queries/suggestions about handling the T3 timer(s) with > PR-SCTP. > > As each destination address has a T3 timer, there can be multiple T3 > timers running if you are sending to different destination addresses of > the peer. Therefore, as the draft/updates are worded, it is unclear > which T3 timer is stopped and the expiry of which causes sending again > of a F-TSN. (If it was all T3 timers which caused sending again, you > may send the F-TSN more than once even if you do not need to.) > > Therefore, carrying on with the theme of treating the packet as summary > of data, I would think it makes sense for the F-TSN to be treated like > the bundling of the abandoned chunks being retransmitted to a > particular address. Therefore the T3 timer handling would be handled > in the same way. > > This means you would start the T3 timer for the destination address of > the F-TSN if not already running. So, when a T3 timer expires you > would only send the F-TSN again if the T3 timer expired for the address > sent the F-TSN. (This could be implemented by checking that this is the > address at least one abandoned chunk was last "sent" to, if you note > the address a chunk is sent to in the same way as (re)transmitting > a chunk). > > Of course, if you re-send the F-TSN to an alternative address, then the > F-TSN will be noted as outstanding on that address, in the same manner > as you would treat retransmitting DATA to an alternative address. > > I think this would change the wording of: > > A2) You would not say that the T3-rtx timer is not stopped - i.e. > remove that line. > > [I think this would be the case, as when retransmitting you > do not stop the T3 timer of an earlier address when > retransmitting on an alternative address, see RFC2960 6.3.3 F1).] > > For the new paragraph covering sending due to the T3 expiring > you would put in an additional condition of the T3-rtx timer > expiring for the destination address sent the F-TSN. > > > C3) You would say that sending the F-TSN is treated like > retransmission of the abandoned chunks when handling the T3-timers. > You may want to emphasize that the T3 timer for the > destination address should be started if not already running. > > Gavin > --- > Gavin Shearer, Suite 4, gavin@artesyncp.com > Project Leader, 2 Anderson Place, +44 131 475 7017 > Artesyn Communication Products Edinburgh, EH6 5NP -- Brian F. G. Bidulock ¦ The reasonable man adapts himself to the ¦ bidulock@openss7.org ¦ world; the unreasonable one persists in ¦ http://www.openss7.org/ ¦ trying to adapt the world to himself. ¦ ¦ Therefore all progress depends on the ¦ ¦ unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw ¦ From Ivan.Arias-Rodriguez@nokia.com Thu May 8 07:10:45 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA19720 for ; Thu, 8 May 2003 07:10:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Ivan.Arias-Rodriguez@nokia.com Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19DjKR-0002FL-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 08 May 2003 07:12:47 -0400 Received: from sj-core-2.cisco.com ([171.71.177.254]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19DjKR-0002FI-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 08 May 2003 07:12:47 -0400 Received: from sj-msg-av-1.cisco.com (sj-msg-av-1.cisco.com [171.69.11.151]) by sj-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h48Aq9Ff003821 for ; Thu, 8 May 2003 03:52:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from proxy2.cisco.com (proxy2.cisco.com [128.107.241.180]) by sj-msg-av-1.cisco.com (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h48Aq5Xo009639 for ; Thu, 8 May 2003 03:52:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mgw-x1.nokia.com (mgw-x1.nokia.com [131.228.20.21]) by proxy2.cisco.com (8.12.8p1/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h48Amuat003793 for ; Thu, 8 May 2003 03:48:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from esvir05nok.ntc.nokia.com (esvir05nokt.ntc.nokia.com [172.21.143.37]) by mgw-x1.nokia.com (Switch-2.2.6/Switch-2.2.6) with ESMTP id h48ATY714193 for ; Thu, 8 May 2003 13:29:34 +0300 (EET DST) Received: from esebh003.NOE.Nokia.com (unverified) by esvir05nok.ntc.nokia.com (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.2.5) with ESMTP id ; Thu, 8 May 2003 13:29:34 +0300 Received: from esebe005.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.21.138.45]) by esebh003.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6139); Thu, 8 May 2003 13:29:34 +0300 Received: from esebe022.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.21.138.113]) by esebe005.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6139); Thu, 8 May 2003 13:29:34 +0300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6375.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: RE: PR-SCTP question (T3 timers) Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 13:29:33 +0300 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: PR-SCTP question (T3 timers) Thread-Index: AcMVSuMffbfqCrxOTWS1sMpe5D+2vAAAT7GA To: , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 May 2003 10:29:34.0072 (UTC) FILETIME=[B7BB7780:01C3154C] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ietf.org id HAA19720 Hi! I imagine this is basically what Michael was thinking. I do support this idea as well. IMO it looks very "coherent" and would require less changes to an implementation adding the PR-SCTP functionality. BR Iván Arias Rodríguez > -----Original Message----- > From: ext Gavin Shearer [mailto:gavin@artesyncp.com] > Sent: Thursday, 08 May, 2003 12:15 > To: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com > Subject: RE: PR-SCTP question (T3 timers) > > > I have some queries/suggestions about handling the T3 timer(s) with > PR-SCTP. > > As each destination address has a T3 timer, there can be multiple T3 > timers running if you are sending to different destination > addresses of > the peer. Therefore, as the draft/updates are worded, it is unclear > which T3 timer is stopped and the expiry of which causes sending again > of a F-TSN. (If it was all T3 timers which caused sending again, you > may send the F-TSN more than once even if you do not need to.) > > Therefore, carrying on with the theme of treating the packet > as summary > of data, I would think it makes sense for the F-TSN to be treated like > the bundling of the abandoned chunks being retransmitted to a > particular address. Therefore the T3 timer handling would be handled > in the same way. > > This means you would start the T3 timer for the destination address of > the F-TSN if not already running. So, when a T3 timer expires you > would only send the F-TSN again if the T3 timer expired for > the address > sent the F-TSN. (This could be implemented by checking that > this is the > address at least one abandoned chunk was last "sent" to, if you note > the address a chunk is sent to in the same way as (re)transmitting > a chunk). > > Of course, if you re-send the F-TSN to an alternative > address, then the > F-TSN will be noted as outstanding on that address, in the same manner > as you would treat retransmitting DATA to an alternative address. > > I think this would change the wording of: > > A2) You would not say that the T3-rtx timer is not > stopped - i.e. > remove that line. > > [I think this would be the case, as when retransmitting you > do not stop the T3 timer of an earlier address when > retransmitting on an alternative address, see RFC2960 > 6.3.3 F1).] > > For the new paragraph covering sending due to the T3 expiring > you would put in an additional condition of the T3-rtx timer > expiring for the destination address sent the F-TSN. > > > C3) You would say that sending the F-TSN is treated like > retransmission of the abandoned chunks when handling > the T3-timers. > You may want to emphasize that the T3 timer for the > destination address should be started if not already running. > > Gavin > --- > Gavin Shearer, Suite 4, > gavin@artesyncp.com > Project Leader, 2 Anderson Place, > +44 131 475 7017 > Artesyn Communication Products Edinburgh, EH6 5NP > > From gavin@artesyncp.com Thu May 8 09:30:22 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA22091 for ; Thu, 8 May 2003 09:30:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19DlVZ-0002sI-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 08 May 2003 09:32:25 -0400 Received: from sj-core-2.cisco.com ([171.71.177.254]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19DlVY-0002sF-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 08 May 2003 09:32:24 -0400 Received: from sj-msg-av-1.cisco.com (sj-msg-av-1.cisco.com [171.69.11.151]) by sj-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h48DAwFf017650 for ; Thu, 8 May 2003 06:10:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from proxy3.cisco.com (proxy3.cisco.com [128.107.241.181]) by sj-msg-av-1.cisco.com (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h48DAuXo019048 for ; Thu, 8 May 2003 06:10:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bifrost.spider.com ([194.217.109.12]) by proxy3.cisco.com (8.12.8p1/8.11.2) with SMTP id h48DBXtn007859 for ; Thu, 8 May 2003 06:11:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from no.name.available by bifrost.spider.com via smtpd (for proxy3.cisco.com [128.107.241.181]) with SMTP; 8 May 2003 13:10:55 UT Received: from heimdall-dmz.spider.com (batistuta.spider.com [212.240.99.13]) by caly80.spider.com (Postfix) with SMTP id D4AEA6F7B for ; Thu, 8 May 2003 13:40:28 +0100 (BST) Received: from batistuta.spider.com by heimdall-dmz.spider.com via smtpd (for [172.16.254.22]) with SMTP; 8 May 2003 12:44:41 UT Received: from lenny.spider.com ([212.240.99.106]) by batistuta.spider.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id HJT965J9; Thu, 8 May 2003 13:41:48 +0100 Received: from localhost (gavin@localhost) by lenny.spider.com (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA17849 for ; Thu, 8 May 2003 13:44:40 +0100 (BST) X-Authentication-Warning: lenny.spider.com: gavin owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 13:44:40 +0100 (BST) From: Gavin Shearer X-X-Sender: gavin@lenny.spider.com To: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Subject: Re: PR-SCTP question (reneging) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Ronnie said: One further question. Does the advanced.peer.ack.point get moved backwards if acked data that it relies on is reneged ? This doesn't seem to be mentioned in the draft. Randall said: Hmm.. I am lost on this one.. To explain for Ronnie, say we at first have: ---1---------> ABANDONED ---2---------> ACKED ---3---------> ABANDONED The Advanced Peer Ack Point is therefore moved onto 3, while the Cumulative Peer Ack Point is still at 0. Now the peer renegs on 2, so we have: ---1---------> ABANDONED ---2---------> RENEGED (so no longer acked) ---3---------> ABANDONED Therefore the Advanced Peer Ack Point needs moved back to 1, as there is now a gap (number 2). So you could do something like the following when a chunk is reneged: if (Advanced.Peer.Ack.Point >= SackCumAck) { Advanced.Peer.Ack.Point = "TSN of reneged chunk" - 1 } Of course, this would probably only have an effect if delaying the F-TSN or resending when the first one was lost (and a reneg arrived in the meantime). Gavin --- Gavin Shearer, Suite 4, gavin@artesyncp.com Project Leader, 2 Anderson Place, +44 131 475 7017 Artesyn Communication Products Edinburgh, EH6 5NP From rrs@cisco.com Thu May 8 11:20:54 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA26306 for ; Thu, 8 May 2003 11:20:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19DnEY-0003TN-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 08 May 2003 11:22:58 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com ([64.102.124.12]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19DnEX-0003TB-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 08 May 2003 11:22:57 -0400 Received: from mira-sjc5-c.cisco.com (IDENT:mirapoint@mira-sjc5-c.cisco.com [171.71.163.17]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h48Erb0C006076; Thu, 8 May 2003 10:53:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cisco.com (ssh-sjc-1.cisco.com [171.68.225.134]) by mira-sjc5-c.cisco.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.3.3-GR) with ESMTP id AGZ16517; Thu, 8 May 2003 07:53:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3EBA6F6B.3000508@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 08 May 2003 09:53:31 -0500 From: "Randall Stewart (cisco)" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030502 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Gavin Shearer CC: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Subject: Re: PR-SCTP question (reneging) References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gavin Shearer wrote: >Ronnie said: > > One further question. Does the advanced.peer.ack.point get moved backwards > if acked data that it relies on is reneged ? This doesn't seem to be > mentioned in the draft. > >Randall said: > > Hmm.. I am lost on this one.. > > >To explain for Ronnie, say we at first have: > >---1---------> ABANDONED >---2---------> ACKED >---3---------> ABANDONED > >The Advanced Peer Ack Point is therefore moved onto 3, while the Cumulative > Nope... you have an error in your logic. C2 says that your APAP is set a 1 NOT 3... " C2) Try to further advance the "Advanced.Peer.Ack.Point" locally, that is, to move "Advanced.Peer.Ack.Point" up as long as the chunk next in the out-queue space is marked as "abandoned" as shown in the following example: " 2 is NOT marked as abandoned so you would stop at 1. This is how you get away from the reneg issue... And as to your T3-rxt issue... Anytime a T3 goes off (no matter what destination it was for) I go ahead and: 1) Mark anything new that needs to be marked. 2) update the APAP if needed. 3) Send a FWD-TSN if needed. The reason I took this logic is that you are trying to move forward the cum-ack over skipped data.. you may end up sending the FWD-TSN twice.. but this is ok.. since duplicates are ignored and this will be a very infrequent occurance.. One could send it only on one address. .but I don't think it matters.. as the idea is to get things moved forward.. R >Peer Ack Point is still at 0. > >Now the peer renegs on 2, so we have: > >---1---------> ABANDONED >---2---------> RENEGED (so no longer acked) >---3---------> ABANDONED > >Therefore the Advanced Peer Ack Point needs moved back to 1, as there is >now a gap (number 2). > >So you could do something like the following when a chunk is reneged: > > if (Advanced.Peer.Ack.Point >= SackCumAck) > { > Advanced.Peer.Ack.Point = "TSN of reneged chunk" - 1 > } > >Of course, this would probably only have an effect if delaying the F-TSN >or resending when the first one was lost (and a reneg arrived in the meantime). > > Gavin >--- >Gavin Shearer, Suite 4, gavin@artesyncp.com >Project Leader, 2 Anderson Place, +44 131 475 7017 >Artesyn Communication Products Edinburgh, EH6 5NP > > > > -- Randall R. Stewart ITD Cisco Systems Inc. rrs@cisco.com 815-342-5222(cell) or 815-477-2127(office) From gavin@artesyncp.com Thu May 8 11:29:36 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA26630 for ; Thu, 8 May 2003 11:29:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19DnMy-0003YO-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 08 May 2003 11:31:40 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com ([64.102.124.13]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19DnMx-0003YI-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 08 May 2003 11:31:39 -0400 Received: from sj-msg-av-3.cisco.com (sj-msg-av-3.cisco.com [171.69.17.42]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h48F7aqr024254 for ; Thu, 8 May 2003 11:07:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from proxy1.cisco.com (proxy1.cisco.com [128.107.241.179]) by sj-msg-av-3.cisco.com (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h48F1HkD006271 for ; Thu, 8 May 2003 08:01:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bifrost.spider.com ([194.217.109.12]) by proxy1.cisco.com (8.12.8p1/8.11.2) with SMTP id h48F0vVF002403 for ; Thu, 8 May 2003 08:01:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from no.name.available by bifrost.spider.com via smtpd (for proxy1.cisco.com [128.107.241.179]) with SMTP; 8 May 2003 15:01:02 UT Received: from heimdall-dmz.spider.com (batistuta.spider.com [212.240.99.13]) by caly80.spider.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 6C3B66F7B for ; Thu, 8 May 2003 15:30:31 +0100 (BST) Received: from batistuta.spider.com by heimdall-dmz.spider.com via smtpd (for [172.16.254.22]) with SMTP; 8 May 2003 14:34:44 UT Received: from lenny.spider.com ([212.240.99.106]) by batistuta.spider.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id HJT965N3; Thu, 8 May 2003 15:31:50 +0100 Received: from localhost (gavin@localhost) by lenny.spider.com (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA17908 for ; Thu, 8 May 2003 15:34:43 +0100 (BST) X-Authentication-Warning: lenny.spider.com: gavin owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 15:34:43 +0100 (BST) From: Gavin Shearer X-X-Sender: gavin@lenny.spider.com To: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Subject: Re: PR-SCTP question (reneging) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII In the last message I sent I had a mistake in the pseudo-code example: > if (Advanced.Peer.Ack.Point >= SackCumAck) ^ this should be "TSN of reneged chunk" | > { > Advanced.Peer.Ack.Point = "TSN of reneged chunk" - 1 > } Gavin --- Gavin Shearer, Suite 4, gavin@artesyncp.com Project Leader, 2 Anderson Place, +44 131 475 7017 Artesyn Communication Products Edinburgh, EH6 5NP From rrs@cisco.com Thu May 8 13:03:08 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA00227 for ; Thu, 8 May 2003 13:03:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19DopS-0004Lb-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 08 May 2003 13:05:10 -0400 Received: from sj-core-1.cisco.com ([171.71.177.237]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19DopR-0004LX-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 08 May 2003 13:05:09 -0400 Received: from mira-sjc5-c.cisco.com (IDENT:mirapoint@mira-sjc5-c.cisco.com [171.71.163.17]) by sj-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h48Go9VV001729; Thu, 8 May 2003 09:50:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cisco.com (ssh-sjc-1.cisco.com [171.68.225.134]) by mira-sjc5-c.cisco.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.3.3-GR) with ESMTP id AGZ31156; Thu, 8 May 2003 09:50:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3EBA8ABE.1040702@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 08 May 2003 11:50:06 -0500 From: "Randall Stewart (cisco)" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030502 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Gavin Shearer CC: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Subject: Re: PR-SCTP question (reneging) References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gavin Shearer wrote: >On Thu, 8 May 2003, Randall Stewart (cisco) wrote: > > > >>Nope... you have an error in your logic. >> >>C2 says that your APAP is set a 1 NOT 3... >> >>" >> C2) Try to further advance the "Advanced.Peer.Ack.Point" locally, >> that is, to move "Advanced.Peer.Ack.Point" up as long as the >> chunk next in the out-queue space is marked as "abandoned" as >> shown in the following example: >>" >> >>2 is NOT marked as abandoned so you would stop at 1. >> >>This is how you get away from the reneg issue... >> >> > >Thanks, I see that now! I guess I thought you would try and abandon >as many as possible and so would not stop at acked packets. > > > >>And as to your T3-rxt issue... Anytime a T3 goes off (no matter what >>destination it was for) I go ahead and: >> >>1) Mark anything new that needs to be marked. >>2) update the APAP if needed. >>3) Send a FWD-TSN if needed. >> >>The reason I took this logic is that you are trying to move >>forward the cum-ack over skipped data.. you may end up >>sending the FWD-TSN twice.. but this is ok.. since duplicates >>are ignored and this will be a very infrequent occurance.. >> >>One could send it only on one address. .but I don't think it >>matters.. as the idea is to get things moved forward.. >> >> > >OK. It would be nice if the draft did not prevent doing it the >way I said, i.e. the strictness of sentence "... the sender MUST >NOT stop the rtx-timer" would prevent you stopping one T3-timer >and starting another one if sending to a different address. >Also the new paragraph "Any time the T3-rtx timer expires ... MUST >be sent to the peer" would force a send on any T3 timer expiring. > > Gavin > > > > Have a peak at the updated text ... and then see if you still object.. R -- Randall R. Stewart ITD Cisco Systems Inc. rrs@cisco.com 815-342-5222(cell) or 815-477-2127(office) From gavin@artesyncp.com Thu May 8 13:04:39 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA00274 for ; Thu, 8 May 2003 13:04:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Doqv-0004MN-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 08 May 2003 13:06:41 -0400 Received: from sj-core-5.cisco.com ([171.71.177.238]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Doqu-0004MF-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 08 May 2003 13:06:40 -0400 Received: from sj-msg-av-2.cisco.com (sj-msg-av-2.cisco.com [171.70.145.31]) by sj-core-5.cisco.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h48GmtwE015574 for ; Thu, 8 May 2003 09:48:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from proxy2.cisco.com (proxy2.cisco.com [128.107.241.180]) by sj-msg-av-2.cisco.com (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h48GmXQn007844 for ; Thu, 8 May 2003 09:48:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bifrost.spider.com ([194.217.109.12]) by proxy2.cisco.com (8.12.8p1/8.11.2) with SMTP id h48GjXSb018380 for ; Thu, 8 May 2003 09:45:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from no.name.available by bifrost.spider.com via smtpd (for proxy2.cisco.com [128.107.241.180]) with SMTP; 8 May 2003 16:48:41 UT Received: from heimdall-dmz.spider.com (batistuta.spider.com [212.240.99.13]) by caly80.spider.com (Postfix) with SMTP id C89E46F7B; Thu, 8 May 2003 17:18:13 +0100 (BST) Received: from batistuta.spider.com by heimdall-dmz.spider.com via smtpd (for [172.16.254.22]) with SMTP; 8 May 2003 16:22:26 UT Received: from lenny.spider.com ([212.240.99.106]) by batistuta.spider.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id HJT965RW; Thu, 8 May 2003 17:19:33 +0100 Received: from localhost (gavin@localhost) by lenny.spider.com (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA18019; Thu, 8 May 2003 17:22:26 +0100 (BST) X-Authentication-Warning: lenny.spider.com: gavin owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 17:22:21 +0100 (BST) From: Gavin Shearer X-X-Sender: gavin@lenny.spider.com To: "Randall Stewart (cisco)" Cc: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Subject: Re: PR-SCTP question (reneging) In-Reply-To: <3EBA6F6B.3000508@cisco.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Thu, 8 May 2003, Randall Stewart (cisco) wrote: > Nope... you have an error in your logic. > > C2 says that your APAP is set a 1 NOT 3... > > " > C2) Try to further advance the "Advanced.Peer.Ack.Point" locally, > that is, to move "Advanced.Peer.Ack.Point" up as long as the > chunk next in the out-queue space is marked as "abandoned" as > shown in the following example: > " > > 2 is NOT marked as abandoned so you would stop at 1. > > This is how you get away from the reneg issue... Thanks, I see that now! I guess I thought you would try and abandon as many as possible and so would not stop at acked packets. > And as to your T3-rxt issue... Anytime a T3 goes off (no matter what > destination it was for) I go ahead and: > > 1) Mark anything new that needs to be marked. > 2) update the APAP if needed. > 3) Send a FWD-TSN if needed. > > The reason I took this logic is that you are trying to move > forward the cum-ack over skipped data.. you may end up > sending the FWD-TSN twice.. but this is ok.. since duplicates > are ignored and this will be a very infrequent occurance.. > > One could send it only on one address. .but I don't think it > matters.. as the idea is to get things moved forward.. OK. It would be nice if the draft did not prevent doing it the way I said, i.e. the strictness of sentence "... the sender MUST NOT stop the rtx-timer" would prevent you stopping one T3-timer and starting another one if sending to a different address. Also the new paragraph "Any time the T3-rtx timer expires ... MUST be sent to the peer" would force a send on any T3 timer expiring. Gavin From gavin@artesyncp.com Thu May 8 14:48:27 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA03281 for ; Thu, 8 May 2003 14:48:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19DqTO-000536-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 08 May 2003 14:50:30 -0400 Received: from sj-core-5.cisco.com ([171.71.177.238]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19DqTN-000530-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 08 May 2003 14:50:29 -0400 Received: from sj-msg-av-3.cisco.com (sj-msg-av-3.cisco.com [171.69.17.42]) by sj-core-5.cisco.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h48IHKwE022205 for ; Thu, 8 May 2003 11:17:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from proxy3.cisco.com (proxy3.cisco.com [128.107.241.181]) by sj-msg-av-3.cisco.com (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h48IHHkD012947 for ; Thu, 8 May 2003 11:17:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bifrost.spider.com ([194.217.109.12]) by proxy3.cisco.com (8.12.8p1/8.11.2) with SMTP id h48IHotn005968 for ; Thu, 8 May 2003 11:17:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from no.name.available by bifrost.spider.com via smtpd (for proxy3.cisco.com [128.107.241.181]) with SMTP; 8 May 2003 18:17:13 UT Received: from heimdall-dmz.spider.com (batistuta.spider.com [212.240.99.13]) by caly80.spider.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 3361A6F7B; Thu, 8 May 2003 18:46:45 +0100 (BST) Received: from batistuta.spider.com by heimdall-dmz.spider.com via smtpd (for [172.16.254.22]) with SMTP; 8 May 2003 17:50:58 UT Received: from lenny.spider.com ([212.240.99.106]) by batistuta.spider.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id HJT965V3; Thu, 8 May 2003 18:48:04 +0100 Received: from localhost (gavin@localhost) by lenny.spider.com (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA18058; Thu, 8 May 2003 18:50:57 +0100 (BST) X-Authentication-Warning: lenny.spider.com: gavin owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 18:50:57 +0100 (BST) From: Gavin Shearer X-X-Sender: gavin@lenny.spider.com To: "Randall Stewart (cisco)" Cc: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Subject: Re: PR-SCTP question (reneging) In-Reply-To: <3EBA8ABE.1040702@cisco.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Thu, 8 May 2003, Randall Stewart (cisco) wrote: > Have a peak at the updated text ... and then see > if you still object.. It looks OK now that it has a "should" for resending whenever any T3 timer expires, which would allow you not to do it if you deem it unnecessary. However, is the following any better, to show the choice and also ensure that the FORWARD TSN is retransmitted? C5) If a FORWARD TSN is sent the sender MUST start the T3-rtx timer ** for the destination address of the FORWARD TSN ** if it is not already running. A4) When the T3-rtx timer of the destination address sent the FORWARD TSN expires, the sender MUST try to advance the "Advanced.Peer.Ack.Point" by following the procedures outlined in C1 - C5. These procedures MAY also be followed when the T3-rtx timers expire for other destination addresses. My suggestion for C5) can be ignored, if you do not want to insist the T3-rtx timer be run on the dest address, if it is already running on another address. BTW in your C5) and A4) you have your favorite typo of "rxt" instead of "rtx" :-) Thanks, Gavin From rrs@cisco.com Thu May 8 15:14:43 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA05107 for ; Thu, 8 May 2003 15:14:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Dqso-0005CF-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 08 May 2003 15:16:46 -0400 Received: from sj-core-1.cisco.com ([171.71.177.237]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Dqsn-0005C7-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 08 May 2003 15:16:45 -0400 Received: from mira-sjc5-c.cisco.com (IDENT:mirapoint@mira-sjc5-c.cisco.com [171.71.163.17]) by sj-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h48Ix1VV001560; Thu, 8 May 2003 11:59:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cisco.com (ssh-sjc-1.cisco.com [171.68.225.134]) by mira-sjc5-c.cisco.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.3.3-GR) with ESMTP id AGZ53613; Thu, 8 May 2003 11:59:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3EBAA8F2.3020508@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 08 May 2003 13:58:58 -0500 From: "Randall Stewart (cisco)" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030502 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Gavin Shearer CC: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Subject: Re: PR-SCTP question (reneging) References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gavin Shearer wrote: >On Thu, 8 May 2003, Randall Stewart (cisco) wrote: > > > >>Have a peak at the updated text ... and then see >>if you still object.. >> >> > >It looks OK now that it has a "should" for resending whenever any T3 timer >expires, which would allow you not to do it if you deem it unnecessary. > >However, is the following any better, to show the choice and also ensure >that the FORWARD TSN is retransmitted? > > C5) If a FORWARD TSN is sent the sender MUST start the T3-rtx > timer ** for the destination address of the FORWARD TSN ** if > it is not already running. > How about instead C5) If a FORWARD TSN is sent, the sender MUST assure that at least one T3-rtx timer is running. This way you can start one or not... as long as one is running somewhere... and then one can based on this carefully maintain only where the FWD-TSN is sent.. or not... depending... And I think the SHOULD in the current A4) makes it loose enough that one can do the alternate aka track things closely OR just do the FWD-TSN bit on all T3's > > A4) When the T3-rtx timer of the destination address sent the > FORWARD TSN expires, the sender MUST try to advance the > "Advanced.Peer.Ack.Point" by following the procedures outlined > in C1 - C5. These procedures MAY also be followed when the > T3-rtx timers expire for other destination addresses. > > And >My suggestion for C5) can be ignored, if you do not want to insist the >T3-rtx timer be run on the dest address, if it is already running on >another address. > >BTW in your C5) and A4) you have your favorite typo >of "rxt" instead of "rtx" :-) > got it.. must be how fast my fingers repsond in the wrong sync :-0 R > >Thanks, > Gavin > > > > -- Randall R. Stewart ITD Cisco Systems Inc. rrs@cisco.com 815-342-5222(cell) or 815-477-2127(office) From st00538@aol.com Thu May 8 17:24:53 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA11928 for ; Thu, 8 May 2003 17:24:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Dsun-0006iY-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 08 May 2003 17:26:57 -0400 Received: from sj-core-5.cisco.com ([171.71.177.238]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Dsum-0006iQ-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 08 May 2003 17:26:56 -0400 Received: from sj-msg-av-1.cisco.com (sj-msg-av-1.cisco.com [171.69.11.151]) by sj-core-5.cisco.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h48KodwE014591 for ; Thu, 8 May 2003 13:50:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from proxy1.cisco.com (proxy1.cisco.com [128.107.241.179]) by sj-msg-av-1.cisco.com (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h48KocXo021352 for ; Thu, 8 May 2003 13:50:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from KJY (ojjvbrts@[210.181.151.40]) by proxy1.cisco.com (8.12.8p1/8.11.2) with SMTP id h48KoQVF023462 for ; Thu, 8 May 2003 13:50:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [44.1.114.27] by KJY with ESMTP id DF3B16129E1; Thu, 08 May 2003 15:41:53 -0600 Message-ID: <0$4$6$k$2kx60$2$0--$4p-b@lx1xi> From: "Darin Washburn" To: Subject: [Spam] Don't pay back .............georgetown Date: Thu, 08 May 03 15:41:53 GMT X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="535FF.3.EA19.15." 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    --535FF.3.EA19.15.-- From g0202512@nus.edu.sg Fri May 9 00:40:32 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA22727 for ; Fri, 9 May 2003 00:40:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19DziL-0001CX-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 09 May 2003 00:42:33 -0400 Received: from sj-core-5.cisco.com ([171.71.177.238]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19DziL-0001CU-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 09 May 2003 00:42:33 -0400 Received: from sj-msg-av-2.cisco.com (sj-msg-av-2.cisco.com [171.70.145.31]) by sj-core-5.cisco.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h494GEq0027927 for ; Thu, 8 May 2003 21:16:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from proxy3.cisco.com (proxy3.cisco.com [128.107.241.181]) by sj-msg-av-2.cisco.com (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h494FqQn024854 for ; Thu, 8 May 2003 21:15:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ims21.stu.nus.edu.sg (ims21.stu.nus.edu.sg [137.132.14.228]) by proxy3.cisco.com (8.12.8p1/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h494Gltn023243 for ; Thu, 8 May 2003 21:16:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mbxsrv24.stu.nus.edu.sg ([137.132.14.233]) by ims21.stu.nus.edu.sg with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5329); Fri, 9 May 2003 12:13:17 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Source Address Selection on multihomed host X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 12:13:16 +0800 Message-ID: <720FB032F37C0D45A11085D881B03368A2BB05@MBXSRV24.stu.nus.edu.sg> Thread-Topic: FW: INIT from private IP address to public IP address never received Thread-Index: AcMTnph7N/MLiwGtS0yi+r9Ce9YLQAA+h3Zg From: "Eng Se-Hsieng" Cc: , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 May 2003 04:13:17.0281 (UTC) FILETIME=[51544D10:01C315E1] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ietf.org id AAA22727 Dear Brian, Thank you for your advice on the NATs. I am now trying to select by which interface a message is emitted on a multihomed host. The best way I can think of is to specify the source address but modifying that in the ip header does not determine by which interface the packet leaves. I tried to setsockopt SOL_IP IP_PKTINFO which should allow me to specify the interface, src address and destination address. In lksctp where sendmsg and recvmsg are already used, the IP_PKTINFO behaviour is undetermined. Regardless of whether I specify the interface index of eth0 or eth1, all the traffic is leaving through eth1. For the moment, I do not specify the src address ip_spec_dst and destination address ipi_addr in the in_pktinfo structure. The man ip (7) pages are quite confusing between src and dest addresses for this structure. eth0 and eth1 are valid interfaces and both of their addresses are part of the association. Eventually, I would like to choose the src address in Randall's reference implementation, i.e. on the raw sockets created. Would you kindly advise if there are any fundamental problems with this approach? i.e. does the packet follow the routing tables or cache no matter what?? Is it really impossible to specify the source interface by which a packet in the SCTP association is routed using IPv4, since it is "destination-based"? How can one choose the src address in user space? Thank you very much for your comments. Regards, Se-Hsieng From gavin@artesyncp.com Fri May 9 05:37:42 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA10693 for ; Fri, 9 May 2003 05:37:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19E4Lw-00032p-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 09 May 2003 05:39:44 -0400 Received: from sj-core-5.cisco.com ([171.71.177.238]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19E4Lu-00031x-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 09 May 2003 05:39:42 -0400 Received: from sj-msg-av-2.cisco.com (sj-msg-av-2.cisco.com [171.70.145.31]) by sj-core-5.cisco.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h499CiGf021411 for ; Fri, 9 May 2003 02:12:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from proxy2.cisco.com (proxy2.cisco.com [128.107.241.180]) by sj-msg-av-2.cisco.com (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h499CNQn010847 for ; Fri, 9 May 2003 02:12:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bifrost.spider.com ([194.217.109.12]) by proxy2.cisco.com (8.12.8p1/8.11.2) with SMTP id h4999WaC017165 for ; Fri, 9 May 2003 02:09:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from no.name.available by bifrost.spider.com via smtpd (for proxy2.cisco.com [128.107.241.180]) with SMTP; 9 May 2003 09:12:41 UT Received: from heimdall-dmz.spider.com (batistuta.spider.com [212.240.99.13]) by caly80.spider.com (Postfix) with SMTP id B070F6F7B; Fri, 9 May 2003 09:42:12 +0100 (BST) Received: from batistuta.spider.com by heimdall-dmz.spider.com via smtpd (for [172.16.254.22]) with SMTP; 9 May 2003 08:46:26 UT Received: from lenny.spider.com ([212.240.99.106]) by batistuta.spider.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id HJT966KC; Fri, 9 May 2003 09:43:31 +0100 Received: from localhost (gavin@localhost) by lenny.spider.com (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA18414; Fri, 9 May 2003 09:46:26 +0100 (BST) X-Authentication-Warning: lenny.spider.com: gavin owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 09:46:26 +0100 (BST) From: Gavin Shearer X-X-Sender: gavin@lenny.spider.com To: "Randall Stewart (cisco)" Cc: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Subject: Re: PR-SCTP question (reneging) In-Reply-To: <3EBAA8F2.3020508@cisco.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > How about instead > C5) If a FORWARD TSN is sent, the sender MUST assure that > at least one T3-rtx timer is running. That sounds fine. > This way you can start one or not... as long as one is running somewhere... > and then one can based on this carefully maintain only where the > FWD-TSN is sent.. or not... depending... > > And I think the SHOULD in the current A4) makes it loose enough > that one can do the alternate aka track things closely OR just > do the FWD-TSN bit on all T3's This seems OK. Is there a concern that being a "should" in A4 would allow someone not to retransmit the FORWARD TSN at all? Gavin --- Gavin Shearer, Suite 4, gavin@artesyncp.com Project Leader, 2 Anderson Place, +44 131 475 7017 Artesyn Communication Products Edinburgh, EH6 5NP From cait@asomi.com Fri May 9 14:29:09 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA26196 for ; Fri, 9 May 2003 14:29:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19ECeE-0006Ur-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 09 May 2003 14:31:10 -0400 Received: from sj-core-1.cisco.com ([171.71.177.237]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19ECeD-0006UW-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 09 May 2003 14:31:09 -0400 Received: from sj-msg-av-2.cisco.com (sj-msg-av-2.cisco.com [171.70.145.31]) by sj-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h49IAZvo024890 for ; Fri, 9 May 2003 11:10:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from proxy3.cisco.com (proxy3.cisco.com [128.107.241.181]) by sj-msg-av-2.cisco.com (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h49IADQn018926 for ; Fri, 9 May 2003 11:10:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from thebe.your-site.com (thebe.your-site.com [140.186.45.26]) by proxy3.cisco.com (8.12.8p1/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h49IApbu007280 for ; Fri, 9 May 2003 11:10:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 192.168.0.2 (64-144-5-25.client.dsl.net [64.144.5.25]) by thebe.your-site.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49674244B2F; Fri, 9 May 2003 14:06:57 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 13:06:50 -0500 From: Caitlin Bestler Subject: Re: Source Address Selection on multihomed host To: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Cc: Eng Se-Hsieng X-Priority: 3 In-Reply-To: <720FB032F37C0D45A11085D881B03368A2BB05@MBXSRV24.stu.nus.edu.sg> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mailsmith 1.5.3 (Blindsider) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 5/9/03, Eng Se-Hsieng wrote: >Dear Brian, > >Thank you for your advice on the NATs. > >I am now trying to select by which interface a message is >emitted on a multihomed host. > The definition of "Primary Path" in RFC 2960 implies that a source address can specify which local interface will be used to transmit the packet. To be totally proper, though, this is not an SCTP issue. It is an IP issue. Unless you are performing PNAT, routing decisions are supposed to be based only on L3 headers. If an IP host is an IP router, it will almost certainly route the packet based upon the destination address. Just as though it had arrived on the interface that matches the source address. If an IP host is not supposed to act as a general purpose router (a proposition I strongly endores, and I don't even work for a company that sells routers) then the local firewall rules should not only ensure that a given source address will leave via a given port, they will absolutely prevent packets with the wrong source address from leaving via any other interface. So check your local IP routing/firewall configuration. There's a chance it can give you the control desired totally independent of SCTP. If the SCTP implementation can't be controlled by the local firewall, then I suggest dealing with that problem first. Caitlin Bestler http://asomi.com/CaitlinBestler/ From cait@asomi.com Fri May 9 15:10:56 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA28360 for ; Fri, 9 May 2003 15:10:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19EDIf-0006mV-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 09 May 2003 15:12:57 -0400 Received: from sj-core-1.cisco.com ([171.71.177.237]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19EDIe-0006lw-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 09 May 2003 15:12:56 -0400 Received: from sj-msg-av-3.cisco.com (sj-msg-av-3.cisco.com [171.69.17.42]) by sj-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h49IeOvo009608 for ; Fri, 9 May 2003 11:40:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from proxy2.cisco.com (proxy2.cisco.com [128.107.241.180]) by sj-msg-av-3.cisco.com (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h49Ie4kD000356 for ; Fri, 9 May 2003 11:40:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from thebe.your-site.com (thebe.your-site.com [140.186.45.26]) by proxy2.cisco.com (8.12.8p1/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h49IataC018162 for ; Fri, 9 May 2003 11:36:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 192.168.0.2 (64-144-5-25.client.dsl.net [64.144.5.25]) by thebe.your-site.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 310442457C5 for ; Fri, 9 May 2003 14:36:41 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 13:36:32 -0500 From: Caitlin Bestler Subject: Transport neutral connections and SCTPSCT To: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com X-Priority: 3 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mailsmith 1.5.3 (Blindsider) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Some background: The Direct Access Transport Collaborative (www.datcollaborative.org) defines transport neutral APIs for RDMA capable fabrics. The IETF's Remote Direct Data Placement (RDDP) working group is in the process of defining RDMA over IP, with mappings for SCTP and MPA/TCP. I am trying to determine how to map the DAT Collaborative's connect method to SCTP. The goal is to have a natural method for the ULP to specify their remote end that can be implemented naturally and efficiently over InfiniBand, TCP/IP and SCTP. To support both InfiniBand and TCP/IP, the consumer specifies the remote IA Address (An IP Address or an IB GID) and a 64-bit "Connection Qualifier". The entire 64 bits is used as Service ID for InfiniBand, the least significant 16 bits is used as the TCP port number for TCP/IP. The question is, how should those 64 bits be mapped for SCTP? Or more precisely, what if any methods are people already using to create "connections" within an existing SCTP association? My assumption is that there are many multi-threaded applications that open several "connections" to the same server. A primary example would be a web or email server that makes use of a file server. Each thread servicing an exteranl client would have its own "connection" to the file server. RDDP defines that an "RDDP Stream" is carried over a lower layer protocol stream (LLP Stream), such as a TCP connection or a matched pair of SCTP streams. So when mapped to TCP, each "connection" would in fact be a distinct TCP connection -- complete with all of the associated overhead, its own slow startup, etc. [This is preaching to the choir, isn't it?] When mapped to SCTP it would be desirable to have each "connection" be a matched pair of SCTP streams. The question is, how should this be specified? Ultimately an SCTP "LLP Stream" would be fully identified by the following, once established: The identifiers of the association: source/dest IP Address lists, source/dest port #s. The Stream ID. That can be mapped to the API. But does it always make sense to specify the entire set. Typically, TCP applications only specify the remote IP Address and port -- nothing local. A few possible approaches: The active side specifies the remote IP Address and the port number. If an association already exists a new port number is allocated, if not the association is established. This is *very* TCP compatible. The active side specifies the source port, destination port and stream ID within the 64 bit Connection Qualifier. The source address can be bound just as for existing protocols. This is very flexible, but doesn't seem very friendly for application threads who just want to open "a connection" to the file server. The association is established to a fixed port number. The first message sent on any stream is the equivalent of an InfiniBand CM Connection Request or Reply. Meaning it would simply pass the 64 bit Connection Qualifier to the other side for matching. This is very InfiniBand compatible. Any opinions on the relative merits of the above would be greatly appreciated. Any other solutions that others have deployed to sharing associations across multiple threads that are not naturally pre-configured would also be very helpful. Note: the RDDP mapping to SCTP uses only unordered delivery. Therefore there is no real cost to reserving as many streams as might be needed when the Association is created. Caitlin Bestler http://asomi.com/CaitlinBestler/ From dave.dickson2@verizon.net Sat May 10 07:20:56 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA29119 for ; Sat, 10 May 2003 07:20:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19ESRN-0003dw-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 10 May 2003 07:22:57 -0400 Received: from sj-core-2.cisco.com ([171.71.177.254]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19ESRL-0003dV-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 10 May 2003 07:22:55 -0400 Received: from sj-msg-av-1.cisco.com (sj-msg-av-1.cisco.com [171.69.11.151]) by sj-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h4AAoQQo026528 for ; Sat, 10 May 2003 03:50:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from proxy1.cisco.com (proxy1.cisco.com [128.107.241.179]) by sj-msg-av-1.cisco.com (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h4AAoOXo014688 for ; Sat, 10 May 2003 03:50:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sc009pub.verizon.net (sc009pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.188]) by proxy1.cisco.com (8.12.8p1/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h4AAoIVF020465 for ; Sat, 10 May 2003 03:50:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [138.88.22.73] (port=8073 helo=hppav) by sc009pub.verizon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 19ERgM-0003nc-8g for SCTP-IMPL@EXTERNAL.CISCO.COM; Sat, 10 May 2003 05:34:22 -0500 Message-ID: <417-220035610103644430@hppav> From: "David Dickson" To: SCTP-IMPL@EXTERNAL.CISCO.COM Subject: Homeland Defense Training Conf - CYBER DEFENSE - June 5, 2003 - Arlington, VA Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 06:36:44 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_5433111831017423103644430" ------=_NextPart_5433111831017423103644430 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Don W=2E DicksonNormalDavid C=2E Dickson2922003-05-08T04:09:00Z2003-05-08T= 04:09:00Z410636063Market Access Int'l501274459=2E2720 00 To SCTP-IMPL@EX= TERNAL=2ECISCO=2ECOM Protecting Americas Infrastructure - Cyber Defense = Homeland Defense Training Conference Thursday, June 5, 2003 =20 NRECA Executive Conference Center=20 4301 Wilson Boulevard=20 Arlington, Virginia 22203=20 =A0 Time: 7:00 AM Registration Program Starts: 8:30 AM Wrap-up: 4:45 PM =20 Continental Breakfast, Refreshments, Lunch included=2E =20 =20 Registration Fee=20 Industry Credit Card or Check in Advance$595=20 Government Credit Card or TrainingForms/Invoice $395=20 =20 Special Note: =20 * =A0 To obtain current speaker lists and instructions for on-line registr= ation, call our Training Conference HOTLINE at 703-807-2027=2E =20 * =A0 To register to receive our Homeland Defense Journal go to www=2Ehome= landdefensejournal=2Ecom ABOUT CYBER DEFENSE=20 The trends of growth in broadband access given to employees and the greate= r connectivity of computer systems and networks need to be counterbalanced= by a corresponding growth in technologies to prevent cyber-invasions=2E C= urrent approaches, though useful, are insufficient against sophisticated p= erpetrators and cyber-terrorists=2E Attacks against our most vital comput= er networks represent a significant threat to our safety and security=2E = Our critical infrastructure needs protection from acts of terrorism and cr= ime with a rapid adaptability to natural or intentional disruptions=2E One important Department of Homeland Security priority will be to examine = the vulnerabilities found in security systems=2E The emphasis will be on c= atastrophic terrorism - threats to the security of our homeland that could= result in large-scale loss of life as well as triggering major economic r= epercussions=2E The focus will be on both evolutionary improvements to cur= rent capabilities as well as the development of revolutionary new capabili= ties=2E Consistent with the National Strategy for Homeland Security, the strategic= objectives of the National Strategy to Secure Cyberspace are to: Prevent cyber attacks against America=92scritical infrastructures; Reduce national vulnerability tocyber attacks; and Minimize damage and recovery timefrom cyber attacks that do occur=2E CONF= ERENCE GOAL=20 Market*Access will host a training conference for industry and government = focusing on agency needs and requirements in the area of Homeland Defense = regarding Cyber Security, Network Infrastructure Protection and Cyber Terr= orism=2E This will be a public-level series of training presentations on t= he challenges ahead=2E Speakers will represent federal agencies and leadin= g security, equipment and systems suppliers=2E The goal of this meeting is to begin to prepare U=2ES=2E government and in= dustry for the changes that will come about regarding cyber defense=2E =20 SPEAKERS =20 * =A0=A0 Speaker TBD, Office of Cyberspace Security, The White House * =A0=A0 Michael L=2E Jackson, Associate Director, Division of Supervision= and Consumer Protection, Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC) * =A0=A0 Tom O'Keefe, Deputy Director for Information System Security, FAA= * =A0=A0 Tony Cole, Senior Manager, Critical Infrastructure Protection Pro= grams, Symantec * =A0=A0 Edward Roback, Division Chief, Computer Scientist, Computer Secur= ity Division, NIST * =A0=A0 Michael J=2E Skroch, Manager, Information Operations Red Team & A= ssessments, Sandia National Laboratories * =A0=A0 Martha Stansell-Gamm, Chief, Computer Crime Intellectual Property= Section, Department of Justice * =A0=A0 Mark Lavoie, Communication Officer, Director of Navy Marine Corps= Intranet (NMCI) Office * =A0 Perry Pederson, Infrastructure Protection Program Manager, Technical= Support Working Group (TSWG) =A0 ***other speakers being confirmed now=2E =20 WHO SHOULD ATTEND =20 Federal systemsintegrators and solutions providers=20 Federal, State and LocalCIOs and IT teams=20 U=2ES=2E Civil agencies withcritical IT and systems infrastructure to be p= rotected=20 Computer and informationsystems security infrastructure executives=20 DoD systems planners=20 Federal managers andexecutives looking for information sharing initiatives= =20 Security professionals WHAT YOU WILL LEARN=20 What are the possibleprograms and funding sources=20 Understanding cyberthreats, issues and requirements=20 National strategy forinfrastructure protection=20 New products indevelopment and on the drawing boards in terms of Cyber Sec= urity andNetworking=20 New initiatives being plannedat the federal, state and local levels=2E=20 Civil agencyorganization and planning=20 R&Dinitiatives CORPORATE SPONSORS *=A0=A0 Alvarion *=A0=A0 Symantec *=A0= =A0 IntruVert *=A0=A0 McGraw-Hill/Osborne Media *=A0=A0 Professional Servi= ces Council *=A0=A0 Homeland Defense Journal *=A0=A0 Contingency Planning = and Management *=A0=A0 Department of Transportation TASC *=A0=A0 INPUT *=A0= =A0 Wireless Communications Association *=A0=A0 DRI International * and o= thers to be announced=20 =20 EXHIBITORS MAY INCLUDE Wireless security=20 Mobile and wirelesscommunications=20 Security planners=20 Federal systemsintegrators=20 Intrusion Detection,Firewalls=20 Network and SystemsSecurity Training and Consulting=20 Disaster recovery andfacility security=20 Help desk operators andbuilders=20 =20 * and many others =20 =20 BECOME AN EXHIBITOR =20 If you would like to become an exhibitor at the Homeland Defense conferenc= e, please contact Donna Anderson at 703-807-2740=2E =20 POINTS OF CONTACT:=20 For information on exhibitorarrangements, please contact Donna Anderson at= 703/807-2740=20 For registrationor general information about this event, please contact Pa= rrish Knight at703/807-2748=2E=20 =20 =20 Conference Registration Options=20 * =A0 Call our Training Conference HOTLINE =A0 to find out how to register= on-line=2E 703-807-2027=2E * =A0 Fax the attached Registration Form to 703-807-2728=2E=A0=20 =20 Special Note: =A0 Please provide your full email address and phone number = in case we have to contact your office regarding the conference=2E Registration Form=20 =20 =20 Protecting America=92s Infrastructure: Cyber Defense=20 June 5, 2003 =20 (Use additional pages as needed for multiple employees) =20 Attendee Name: Title: Company/Agency: Address: City: State: Zip Code: Email: Telephone: Fax: =20 Special Note: =A0 Be sure to provide BOTH telephone and email address so t= hat we can contact you in the event of conference changes=2E =20 Registration Fee=20 =20 =95 Industry Credit Card or Check in Advance $595 =95 Government Credit Card or Check in Advance $395 =20 CANCELLATION POLICY FOR ALL REGISTRATIONS: Cancellations will be accepted = up to 48 hours prior to the conference with full refund less a $50 process= ing fee=2E Within 48 hours, no refund=2E Refunds will be processed within = 10 days after the event=2E =20 Note: Payment requested in advance=2E Please check one of the following as your form of payment: =20 [ ] Check Make checks payable to: Market*Access International Send to: Market*Access, 4301 Wilson Blvd=2E #1003, Arlington, VA 22203 =20 [ ] VISA [ ] MasterCard [ ] American Express =20 Account Number: ___________________________Exp=2E Date___________________ =20 Cardholder Name: ______________________________________________________ =20 Signature (required) or telephone order _______________________________________ =20 Registration and Information: Call Parrish (703) 807-2748 Fax this form to 703-807-2728=2E Thank you=2E =20 To register to receive our Homeland Defense Journal go to www=2Ehomelandde= fensejournal=2Ecom=20 =20 NOTE: =A0 If you would like to be REMOVED from this list, please REPLY by = placing REMOVE in the subject line=2E=20 =20 =20 =20 =20 ------=_NextPart_5433111831017423103644430 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

     To = SCTP-IMPL@EXTE= RNAL=2ECISCO=2ECOM

     

     

    Protecting Amer= icas Infrastructure - Cyber Defense

    Homeland Defens= e Training Conference

     
    Thursday, June 5, 2003
     

    NRECA Executive Conference Center

    4301 Wilson Boulevard

    Arlington, Virginia 22203


    =A0

    Time: 7:00 AM Registration

    Program Starts: 8:30 AM

    Wrap-up: 4:45 PM

     

    Continental Breakfast, Refreshments, Lunch included=2E

     

     

    Registration Fee
    • Industry Credit Card or Check in= Advance $595
    • Government Credit Card or Traini= ng Forms/Invoice $395

     

    Special Note:

     

    *=A0 To obtain current speaker lists and= instructions for on-line registration, call our Training Conference HOTLIN= E at 703-807-2027=2E

     

    *=A0 To register to receive our Homeland= Defense Journal go to www=2E= homelanddefensejournal=2Ecom

     

    ABOUT CYBER DEFENSE

    The trends of growth in broadband access given to employees an= d the greater connectivity of computer systems and networks need to be counterbalanced by a corresponding growth in technologies to prevent cyber= -invasions=2E  Current approaches, though useful, are insufficient against sophisticated perpetrators and cyber-terrorists=2E  Attacks against our most vital computer networks represent a significant threat to our safety and security=2E  Our critical infrastructure needs protection from acts o= f terrorism and crime with a rapid adaptability to natural or intentional disruptions=2E

    One important Department of Homelan= d Security priority will be to examine the vulnerabilities found in security= systems=2E The emphasis will be on catastrophic terrorism - threats to the= security of our homeland that could result in large-scale loss of life as = well as triggering major economic repercussions=2E The focus will be on both evolutionary improvements to current capabilities as well as the developme= nt of revolutionary new capabilities=2E

    Consistent with the National Strategy for Homeland Security, t= he strategic objectives of the National Strategy to Secure Cyberspace are to:=

    • Prevent cyber attacks against Am= erica=92s critical infrastructures;
    • Reduce national vulnerability = to cyber attacks; and
    • Minimize damage and recovery t= ime from cyber attacks that do occur=2E
     =
    CONFERENCE GOAL

    Market*Access will host a training conference for industry and government focusing on ag= ency needs and requirements in the area of Homeland Defense regarding Cyber Security, Network Infrastructure Protection and Cyber Terrorism=2E This wi= ll be a public-level series of training presentations on the challenges ahead=2E S= peakers will represent federal agencies and leading security, equipment and system= s suppliers=2E

    The goal of this meeting is to begin to prepare U=2ES=2E government and indust= ry for the changes that will come about regarding cyber defense=2E

     

    SPEAKERS

     

    *=A0=A0 Speaker TBD, Office of Cyberspac= e Security, The White House

    *=A0=A0 Michael L=2E Jackson, Associate = Director, Division of Supervision and Consumer Protection, Federal Deposit Insurance= Corporation (FDIC)

    *=A0=A0 Tom O'Keefe, Deputy Director for= Information System Security, FAA

    *=A0=A0 Tony Cole, Senior Manager, Criti= cal Infrastructure Protection Programs, Symantec

    *=A0=A0 Edward Roback, Division Chief, C= omputer Scientist, Computer Security Division, NIST

    *=A0=A0 Michael J=2E Skroch, Manager, In= formation Operations Red Team & Assessments, Sandia National Laboratories

    *=A0=A0 Martha Stansell-Gamm, Chief, Com= puter Crime Intellectual Property Section, Department of Justice

    =

    *=A0=A0 Mark Lavoie, Communication Offic= er, Director of Navy Marine Corps Intranet (NMCI) Office

    =

    *=A0 Perry Pederson, Infrastructure Prot= ection Program Manager, Technical Support Working Group (TSWG)<= /p>

    =A0

    ***other speaker= s being confirmed now=2E

     

     
    WHO SHOULD ATTEND
     =
    • Federal syste= ms integrators and solutions providers
    • Federal, Stat= e and Local CIOs and IT teams
    • U=2ES=2E Civi= l agencies with critical IT and systems infrastructure to be protected
    • Computer and = information systems security infrastructure executives
    • DoD systems p= lanners
    • Federal manag= ers and executives looking for information sharing initiatives
    • Security prof= essionals
    WHAT YOU WILL LEARN=
    • What are the = possible programs and funding sources
    • Understanding= cyber threats, issues and requirements
    • National stra= tegy for infrastructure protection
    • New products = in development and on the drawing boards in terms of Cyber Security and Networking
    • New initiativ= es being planned at the federal, state and local levels=2E
    • Civil agency organization and planning
    • R&= amp;D initiatives  
     
    CORPORATE SPONSORS
     =
    *=A0=A0 Alvar= ion
    *=A0=A0 Syman= tec
    *=A0=A0 Intru= Vert
    *=A0=A0 McGra= w-Hill/Osborne Media
    *=A0=A0 Profe= ssional Services Council
    *=A0=A0 Homel= and Defense Journal
    *=A0=A0 Conti= ngency Planning and Management
    *=A0=A0 Depar= tment of Transportation TASC
    *=A0=A0 INPUT=
    *=A0=A0 Wirel= ess Communications Association
    *=A0=A0 DRI International
     <= /span>
    * and others to be announced

     

    EXHIBITORS MAY INCLUDE

    • Wireless secu= rity
    • Mobile and wi= reless communications
    • Security plan= ners
    • Federal syste= ms integrators
    • Intrusion Det= ection, Firewalls
    • Network and S= ystems Security Training and Consulting
    • Disaster reco= very and facility security
    • Help desk ope= rators and builders

     

    * and many other= s

     

     

    BECOME AN EXHIBI= TOR

     

    If you would lik= e to become an exhibitor at the Homeland Defense conference, please contact Donna Ande= rson at 703-807-2740=2E

     

    POINTS OF CONTACT: =
    • For informati= on on exhibitor arrangements, please contact Donna Anderson at 703/807-2740 =
    • Fo= r registration or general information about this event, please contact Parrish Knigh= t at 703/807-2748=2E

     

     

    Conference Registration Options&= nbsp;

    *=A0 Call our Training Conference HOTLIN= E=A0 to find out how to register on-line= =2E 703-807-2027=2E

    *=A0 Fax the attached Registration Form = to 703-807-2728=2E=A0

     

    Special Note:=A0 Please provide your full email addr= ess and phone number in case we have to contact your office regarding the conferen= ce=2E

     

     

     

    Registration Form

     

     =

    Protecting America=92s Infrastructure: Cyber Defense

    June 5= , 2003

     

    (Use additional pages as needed for multiple employee= s)

     

    Attendee Name:

    Title:

    Company/Agency:

    Address:

    City:

    State:

    Zip Code:

    Email:

    Telephone:

    Fax:

     

    Special Note:=A0 B= e sure to provide BOTH telephone and email address so that we can contact you in the= event of conference changes=2E

     

    Registration Fee

     =

    =95 Industry Credit Card or C= heck in Advance $595

    =95 Government Credit Card or= Check in Advance $395

     <= /p>

    CANCELLATION POLICY FOR A= LL REGISTRATIONS: Cancellations will be accepted up to 48 hours prior to the = conference with full refund less a $50 processing fee=2E Within 48 hours, no refund=2E= Refunds will be processed within 10 days after the event=2E

     <= /p>

    Note: Payment requested in advance= =2E

    Please check one of the following = as your form of payment:

     

    [ ] Check

    Make checks payable to: Market*Access International

    Send to: Market*Access, 4= 301 Wilson Blvd=2E #1003, Arlington, VA 22203

     <= /p>

    [ ] VISA [ ] MasterCard [ ] American Express

     

    Account Number: ___________________________Exp=2E Date___________________

     

    Cardholder Name: ______________________________________________________

     

    Signature (required) or telephone order

    _______________________________________

     =

    Regist= ration and Information: Call Parrish (703) 807-2748

    Fax th= is form to 703-807-2728=2E Thank you=2E

     =

    To register to receive ou= r Homeland Defense Journal go to www=2Ehomelanddefensej= ournal=2Ecom

     =

    NOTE:<= span style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">=A0 If you would like to be REMOVED fro= m this list, please REPLY by placing REMOVE in the subject line=2E<= /o:p>

     

     

     

     

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    It is because of the perceived possibility of not being able to locate any of=20 (Sir.) Donald Duke's next of kin, The management under the influence of o= ur=20 Chairman, a retired politician and members of the Board of Directors, whi= ch=20 arrangement has been made for the fund to be declared unclaimed and subsequently=20 be donated to the trust fund for arms and ammunitions to further enhanced the=20 course of war in Africa and the world in general. In order to avert this=20 negative development, my trusted colleague and I now seek your permission to=20 have you stand as next of kin to late (Sir.) Donald Duke so that the fund #15M=20 will be released and paid to into your account as the beneficiary's next = of kin.=20 All documents and proves to enable get this fund will be carefully worked out. I=20 found it more convenient to commence on the transaction since I have all=20 information to influence all procedures to this effect. I am assuring you that=20 your Involvement in this business is 100% risk free.

    You shall retain a percentage that will be agreed between us while the rest=20 will be for me the originator of the transaction. For investment purpose,= a=20 portion of my share I will use for investment in your country under your=20 trustee. As soon as I receive an acknowledgement of receipt of this messa= ge in=20 acceptance of our mutual business proposal, I would furnish you with the=20 necessary modalities and disbursement ratio to suit both parties without any=20 conflict including every other detail you may wish to know. If this proposal is=20 acceptable by you, do not take undue advantage of the trust we have bestowed in=20 you.

    On receiving your reply, I shall give you a call to finalize all arrangements=20 for a hitch free transaction PLEASE, APPRECIATE THE FACT THAT DOING BUSINESS=20 OVER THE INTERNET IS RISKY. ENDEAVOR TO SEND YOUR CONFIDENTIAL TELEPHONE AND FAX=20 NUMBER IN YOUR REPLY TO THIS MAIL.

    Regards,

    Mr. Francis Okumagba

    --= Multipart Boundary 0104800042-- From ronnie@artesyncp.com Thu May 15 04:59:17 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA01384 for ; Thu, 15 May 2003 04:59:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19GEbv-0005Jt-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 15 May 2003 05:01:11 -0400 Received: from sj-core-5.cisco.com ([171.71.177.238]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19GEbv-0005Ji-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 15 May 2003 05:01:11 -0400 Received: from sj-msg-av-1.cisco.com (sj-msg-av-1.cisco.com [171.69.11.151]) by sj-core-5.cisco.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h4F8Wj4d021175 for ; Thu, 15 May 2003 01:32:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from proxy1.cisco.com (proxy1.cisco.com [128.107.241.179]) by sj-msg-av-1.cisco.com (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h4F8WhXo016199 for ; Thu, 15 May 2003 01:32:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bifrost.spider.com ([194.217.109.12]) by proxy1.cisco.com (8.12.8p1/8.11.2) with SMTP id h4F8WZt2005995 for ; Thu, 15 May 2003 01:32:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from no.name.available by bifrost.spider.com via smtpd (for proxy1.cisco.com [128.107.241.179]) with SMTP; 15 May 2003 08:32:42 UT Received: from heimdall-dmz.spider.com (batistuta.spider.com [212.240.99.13]) by caly80.spider.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 354D06F5C; Thu, 15 May 2003 09:02:03 +0100 (BST) Received: from batistuta.spider.com by heimdall-dmz.spider.com via smtpd (for [172.16.254.22]) with SMTP; 15 May 2003 08:06:27 UT Received: by batistuta.spider.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Thu, 15 May 2003 09:03:15 +0100 Message-ID: <797470E884C6D611B7A500B0D0AA56D0442718@batistuta.spider.com> From: "Sellar, Ronnie" To: "'Randall Stewart (cisco)'" Cc: "Shearer, Gavin" , "Sctp-Impl (E-mail)" Subject: New PR-SCTP draft. Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 09:03:09 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Randall, I've had a look at the new draft and wondered if one paragraph should now be removed. The paragraph is in section 3.6 dealing with the handling of FORWARD-TSN chunks. It states that if the "New Cumulative TSN" is less than your current cumulative TSN you should silently discard the chunk. Now that we require F-TSNs to be sacked is this not just an indication that perhaps your SACK has gone missing and that you may need to resend it. Just as if you'd received duplicate data. Silently discarding the chunk may lead to the situation we were trying to avoid by using SACKs. Ronnie --- Ronnie Sellar Artesyn Communications Products Tel: +44 131 475 7015 Suite 4, 2 Anderson Place Fax: +44 131 475 7001 Edinburgh EH6 5NP mailto:ronnie@artesyncp.com http://www.artesyncp.com From 2mj8dvvzywgs@nana.co.il Thu May 15 05:27:40 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA01756 for ; Thu, 15 May 2003 05:27:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19GF3O-0005Qu-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 15 May 2003 05:29:34 -0400 Received: from sj-core-1.cisco.com ([171.71.177.237]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19GF3N-0005Qp-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 15 May 2003 05:29:33 -0400 Received: from sj-msg-av-1.cisco.com (sj-msg-av-1.cisco.com [171.69.11.151]) by sj-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.9/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h4F9EZ9s023896 for ; Thu, 15 May 2003 02:14:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from proxy2.cisco.com (proxy2.cisco.com [128.107.241.180]) by sj-msg-av-1.cisco.com (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h4F9EYXo009818 for ; Thu, 15 May 2003 02:14:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from m7.net81-67-189.noos.fr (XVMJ@m7.net81-67-189.noos.fr [81.67.189.7]) by proxy2.cisco.com (8.12.8p1/8.11.2) with SMTP id h4F9AJA7028238 for ; Thu, 15 May 2003 02:11:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 32k0t.hgppg.com (HELO t3awj) ([60.242.232.178]) by m7.net81-67-189.noos.fr with ESMTP id 9CEDA68DF3A; Thu, 15 May 2003 01:29:08 +0400 Message-ID: From: "Dorothy Burks" <2mj8dvvzywgs@nana.co.il> To: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Subject: [Spam] Sctp-impl, age well Date: Thu, 15 May 03 01:29:08 GMT X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary=".EF19A8430_1D73_0.D" X-Priority: 1 X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQBPp+w= X-SPAM: Yes This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --.EF19A8430_1D73_0.D Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=".EF19A843AB1D73_0.D" --.EF19A843AB1D73_0.D Content-Type: text/html; Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable





    You received this email because = you signed up at a GroupRX or parned up with a party that has= contracted with GroupRX. If you= no longer wish to receive impor= tant health related information = from us, please opt-out.

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(proxy2.cisco.com [128.107.241.180]) by sj-msg-av-1.cisco.com (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h4FAYIXo029359 for ; Thu, 15 May 2003 03:34:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 128.107.241.180 (hell@[218.202.209.4]) by proxy2.cisco.com (8.12.8p1/8.11.2) with SMTP id h4FAUsA7008546 for ; Thu, 15 May 2003 03:30:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [84.141.74.214] by 128.107.241.180 SMTP id pB6A8yT9C90u5s for ; Thu, 15 May 2003 07:29:15 -0400 Message-ID: <0a83167s-3455$$p0k1@fuy4o9oh> From: "Blaine Christie" To: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Subject: [Spam] Sctp-impl, Rates All Time Low - Refinance Now creche Date: Thu, 15 May 03 07:29:15 GMT X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2462.0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="7B5.AA41_12EB_D9A__3." X-Priority: 1 X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQBP03g= X-SPAM: Yes This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --7B5.AA41_12EB_D9A__3. Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="7B5.AA41_EDEB_D9A__3." --7B5.AA41_EDEB_D9A__3. Content-Type: text/html; Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

    Refinance Your Home While RATES ARE LOW!

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Thu, 15 May 2003 16:30:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19GPP5-00025Z-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 15 May 2003 16:32:39 -0400 Received: from sj-core-2.cisco.com ([171.71.177.254]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19GPP4-00025W-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 15 May 2003 16:32:38 -0400 Received: from mira-sjc5-c.cisco.com (IDENT:mirapoint@mira-sjc5-c.cisco.com [171.71.163.17]) by sj-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h4FKO5G4005699; Thu, 15 May 2003 13:24:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cisco.com (ssh-sjc-1.cisco.com [171.68.225.134]) by mira-sjc5-c.cisco.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.3.3-GR) with ESMTP id AHH14458; Thu, 15 May 2003 13:24:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3EC39EF9.5040104@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 09:06:49 -0500 From: "Randall Stewart (cisco)" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3b) Gecko/20030323 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Sellar, Ronnie" CC: "Shearer, Gavin" , "Sctp-Impl (E-mail)" Subject: Re: New PR-SCTP draft. References: <797470E884C6D611B7A500B0D0AA56D0442718@batistuta.spider.com> In-Reply-To: <797470E884C6D611B7A500B0D0AA56D0442718@batistuta.spider.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sellar, Ronnie wrote: >Randall, > >I've had a look at the new draft and wondered if one paragraph should now be >removed. The paragraph is in section 3.6 dealing with the handling of >FORWARD-TSN chunks. It states that if the "New Cumulative TSN" is less than >your current cumulative TSN you should silently discard the chunk. > >Now that we require F-TSNs to be sacked is this not just an indication that >perhaps your SACK has gone missing and that you may need to resend it. Just >as if you'd received duplicate data. Silently discarding the chunk may lead >to the situation we were trying to avoid by using SACKs. > Ronnie: Excellent point.. we really need to not discard the paragraph but maybe instead specify that you need to respond with a SACK. R > >Ronnie >--- >Ronnie Sellar Artesyn Communications Products >Tel: +44 131 475 7015 Suite 4, 2 Anderson Place >Fax: +44 131 475 7001 Edinburgh EH6 5NP >mailto:ronnie@artesyncp.com http://www.artesyncp.com > > > -- Randall R. Stewart ITD Cisco Systems Inc. rrs@cisco.com 815-342-5222(cell) or 815-477-2127(office) From sarkar@ccpu.com Thu May 15 17:17:10 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA23426 for ; Thu, 15 May 2003 17:16:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19GQ7l-0002Kc-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 15 May 2003 17:18:49 -0400 Received: from sj-core-2.cisco.com ([171.71.177.254]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19GQ7f-0002KJ-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 15 May 2003 17:18:43 -0400 Received: from sj-msg-av-1.cisco.com (sj-msg-av-1.cisco.com [171.69.11.151]) by sj-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h4FKw5G4017762 for ; Thu, 15 May 2003 13:58:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from proxy1.cisco.com (proxy1.cisco.com [128.107.241.179]) by sj-msg-av-1.cisco.com (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h4FKw3Xo018118 for ; Thu, 15 May 2003 13:58:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.ccpu.com (defender.ccpu.com [216.54.134.34]) by proxy1.cisco.com (8.12.8p1/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h4FKvuAn021011 for ; Thu, 15 May 2003 13:57:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dhcp66.ccpu.com ([172.16.1.66] helo=CCPU00207) by smtp.ccpu.com with smtp (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian)) id 19GNdJ-0003C8-00 for ; Thu, 15 May 2003 11:39:13 -0700 From: "Rajib Sarkar" To: Subject: SCTP Questions Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 11:38:32 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, I have a basic question about association establishment. Lets say I have and endpoint with three ip addresses, ip1, ip2 and ip3. When the user of SCTP tries to establish an association using the endpoint, it specifies three source addresses ip2, ip3 and ip4, will the association be rejected by SCTP because the endpoint does not contain ip address ip4? Regards Rajib From rrs@cisco.com Thu May 15 17:43:54 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA24180 for ; Thu, 15 May 2003 17:43:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19GQXs-0002WG-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 15 May 2003 17:45:48 -0400 Received: from sj-core-1.cisco.com ([171.71.177.237]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19GQXm-0002W2-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 15 May 2003 17:45:42 -0400 Received: from mira-sjc5-c.cisco.com (IDENT:mirapoint@mira-sjc5-c.cisco.com [171.71.163.17]) by sj-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.9/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h4FLW8Wh001830; Thu, 15 May 2003 14:32:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cisco.com (ssh-sjc-1.cisco.com [171.68.225.134]) by mira-sjc5-c.cisco.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.3.3-GR) with ESMTP id AHH24288; Thu, 15 May 2003 14:32:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3EC40756.1040308@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 16:32:06 -0500 From: "Randall Stewart (cisco)" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3b) Gecko/20030323 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Rajib Sarkar CC: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Subject: Re: SCTP Questions References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Rajib Sarkar wrote: >Hi, > I have a basic question about association establishment. > Lets say I have and endpoint with three ip addresses, ip1, ip2 and ip3. >When the user of SCTP tries to establish an association using the endpoint, >it specifies three source addresses ip2, ip3 and ip4, will the association >be rejected by SCTP because the endpoint does not contain ip address ip4? > I don't think I follow your example... I the user do fd = socket(AF_INET,SOCKET_DGRAM,IPPROTO_SCTP); sockaddr.sin_addr.s_addr = ip1; soackaddr.sin_port = port; bind(fd,&sockaddr); to get ip1 bound .. .then sockaddr.sin_addr.s_addr = ip2; sctp_bindx(fd,&sockaddr); sockaddr.sin_addr.s_addr = ip3; sctp_bindx(fd, &sockaddr); Now, is your qustion to the local app doing; send_msg(fd....); Or to a peer doing send_msg(some-fd,... msg-toip4)? The local endpoint specifies the addresses by binding.. it has no way to specify ip4 at all. The peer endpoint (not the binder) will send to ONE address... if it picks IP4 in the beginning.. it will get an ABORT b ack. If it picks ip3 and sends.. fine the data goes across/assoc is established.. Then if trys agaion to send to ip4 on that fd... it will again get an ABORT back.. (not aborting its assocaition... since the UDP style will consider it a NEW assocaition setting up .. aka the otehr endpoint does not have IP4)... Does that answer your question? R >Regards >Rajib > > > > -- Randall R. Stewart ITD Cisco Systems Inc. rrs@cisco.com 815-342-5222(cell) or 815-477-2127(office) From ronnie@artesyncp.com Fri May 16 03:54:15 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA16036 for ; Fri, 16 May 2003 03:54:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Ga4G-000570-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 16 May 2003 03:55:52 -0400 Received: from sj-core-5.cisco.com ([171.71.177.238]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Ga4B-00056b-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 16 May 2003 03:55:47 -0400 Received: from sj-msg-av-2.cisco.com (sj-msg-av-2.cisco.com [171.70.145.31]) by sj-core-5.cisco.com (8.12.9/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h4G7RSBP015743 for ; Fri, 16 May 2003 00:27:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from proxy1.cisco.com (proxy1.cisco.com [128.107.241.179]) by sj-msg-av-2.cisco.com (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h4G7R4Qn001882 for ; Fri, 16 May 2003 00:27:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bifrost.spider.com ([194.217.109.12]) by proxy1.cisco.com (8.12.8p1/8.11.2) with SMTP id h4G7RIAn022619 for ; Fri, 16 May 2003 00:27:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from no.name.available by bifrost.spider.com via smtpd (for proxy1.cisco.com [128.107.241.179]) with SMTP; 16 May 2003 07:27:25 UT Received: from heimdall-dmz.spider.com (batistuta.spider.com [212.240.99.13]) by caly80.spider.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 1BB9D6F5C; Fri, 16 May 2003 07:56:44 +0100 (BST) Received: from batistuta.spider.com by heimdall-dmz.spider.com via smtpd (for [172.16.254.22]) with SMTP; 16 May 2003 07:01:10 UT Received: by batistuta.spider.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Fri, 16 May 2003 07:57:55 +0100 Message-ID: <797470E884C6D611B7A500B0D0AA56D044271E@batistuta.spider.com> From: "Sellar, Ronnie" To: "'Randall Stewart (cisco)'" Cc: "Sctp-Impl (E-mail)" Subject: RE: New PR-SCTP draft. Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 07:57:53 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Randall, Agreed, a note to say send a SACK then discard the F-TSN would be fine. Ronnie --- Ronnie Sellar Artesyn Communications Products Tel: +44 131 475 7015 Suite 4, 2 Anderson Place Fax: +44 131 475 7001 Edinburgh EH6 5NP mailto:ronnie@artesyncp.com http://www.artesyncp.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Randall Stewart (cisco) [mailto:rrs@cisco.com] > Sent: 15 May 2003 15:07 > To: Sellar, Ronnie > Cc: Shearer, Gavin; Sctp-Impl (E-mail) > Subject: Re: New PR-SCTP draft. > > > Sellar, Ronnie wrote: > > >Randall, > > > >I've had a look at the new draft and wondered if one > paragraph should now be > >removed. The paragraph is in section 3.6 dealing with the > handling of > >FORWARD-TSN chunks. It states that if the "New Cumulative > TSN" is less than > >your current cumulative TSN you should silently discard the chunk. > > > >Now that we require F-TSNs to be sacked is this not just an > indication that > >perhaps your SACK has gone missing and that you may need to > resend it. Just > >as if you'd received duplicate data. Silently discarding > the chunk may lead > >to the situation we were trying to avoid by using SACKs. > > > Ronnie: > > Excellent point.. we really need to not discard the paragraph but > maybe instead specify that you need to respond with a SACK. > > R > > > > > >Ronnie > >--- > >Ronnie Sellar Artesyn Communications Products > >Tel: +44 131 475 7015 Suite 4, 2 Anderson Place > >Fax: +44 131 475 7001 Edinburgh EH6 5NP > >mailto:ronnie@artesyncp.com http://www.artesyncp.com > > > > > > > > > -- > Randall R. 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    --=_NextPart_2rfkindysadvnqw3nerasdf-- From mrajpal@hss.hns.com Mon May 19 06:26:24 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA14244 for ; Mon, 19 May 2003 06:26:24 -0400 (EDT) From: mrajpal@hss.hns.com Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19HhsK-0001bn-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 19 May 2003 06:28:13 -0400 Received: from sj-core-5.cisco.com ([171.71.177.238]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19HhsK-0001bU-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 19 May 2003 06:28:12 -0400 Received: from sj-msg-av-3.cisco.com (sj-msg-av-3.cisco.com [171.69.17.42]) by sj-core-5.cisco.com (8.12.9/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h4J9hlBP001606 for ; Mon, 19 May 2003 02:43:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from proxy3.cisco.com (proxy3.cisco.com [128.107.241.181]) by sj-msg-av-3.cisco.com (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h4J9hjkD025771 for ; Mon, 19 May 2003 02:43:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hindon.hss.co.in (hindon.hss.co.in [202.54.26.202]) by proxy3.cisco.com (8.12.8p1/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h4J9iBfZ002511 for ; Mon, 19 May 2003 02:44:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hindon.hss.co.in (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hindon.hss.co.in (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id h4J8mbZ12948 for ; Mon, 19 May 2003 14:18:37 +0530 (IST) Received: from ultra.hss.co.in (ultra [192.168.100.5]) by hindon.hss.co.in (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id h4J8mX912912; Mon, 19 May 2003 14:18:33 +0530 (IST) Received: from sandesh.hss.hns.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra.hss.co.in (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id h4J8pnU25542; Mon, 19 May 2003 14:21:49 +0530 (IST) Subject: clarification required for sctp socket draft 06 To: tsvwg@ietf.org Cc: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 14:17:20 +0530 Message-ID: X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on Sandesh/HSS(Release 6.0|September 26, 2002) at 19/05/2003 02:16:16 PM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII hi, In section 5.3.1.1 of draft-ietf-tsvwg-sctpsocket-06.txt,, the structure definiition is struct sctp_assoc_change { uint16_t sac_type; uint16_t sac_flags; uint32_t sac_length; uint16_t sac_state; uint16_t sac_error; uint16_t sac_outbound_streams; uint16_t sac_inbound_streams; sctp_assoc_t sac_assoc_id; uint8_t sac_info[0]; }; The last member sac_info is mentioned as sac_data in the description given in the same section. Please clarify what should be the member called, sac_info or sac_data. regards manish Hughes Software Systems http://www.hssworld.com "DISCLAIMER: This message is proprietary to Hughes Software Systems Limited (HSS) and is intended solely for the use of the individual to whom it is addressed. It may contain privileged or confidential information and should not be circulated or used for any purpose other than for what it is intended. If you have received this message in error, please notify the originator immediately. If you are not the intended recipient, you are notified that you are strictly prohibited from using, copying, altering, or disclosing the contents of this message. HSS accepts no responsibility for loss or damage arising from the use of the information transmitted by this email including damage from virus." From MAILER-DAEMON Mon May 19 08:11:01 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA18414 for ; Mon, 19 May 2003 08:11:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19HjVa-0002tG-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 19 May 2003 08:12:50 -0400 Received: from sj-core-5.cisco.com ([171.71.177.238]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19HjVZ-0002sK-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 19 May 2003 08:12:49 -0400 Received: from sj-msg-av-2.cisco.com (sj-msg-av-2.cisco.com [171.70.145.31]) by sj-core-5.cisco.com (8.12.9/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h4JBeaBP017455 for ; Mon, 19 May 2003 04:40:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from proxy2.cisco.com (proxy2.cisco.com [128.107.241.180]) by sj-msg-av-2.cisco.com (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h4JBeBQn021270 for ; Mon, 19 May 2003 04:40:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hindon.hss.co.in (hindon.hss.co.in [202.54.26.202]) by proxy2.cisco.com (8.12.8p1/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h4JBb7M0009651 for ; Mon, 19 May 2003 04:37:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hindon.hss.co.in (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hindon.hss.co.in (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id h4JAjYk06045 for ; Mon, 19 May 2003 16:15:34 +0530 (IST) Received: from ultra.hss.co.in (ultra [192.168.100.5]) by hindon.hss.co.in (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id h4JAjX906033 for ; Mon, 19 May 2003 16:15:33 +0530 (IST) Received: from sandesh.hss.hns.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra.hss.co.in (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id h4JAmnd06204 for ; Mon, 19 May 2003 16:18:49 +0530 (IST) Received: from ultra.hss.co.in ([192.168.100.5]) by sandesh.hss.hns.com (Lotus Domino Release 6.0) with ESMTP id 2003051916101674-26272 ; Mon, 19 May 2003 16:10:16 +0530 Received: from hindon.hss.co.in (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra.hss.co.in (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id h4JAjmk06013 for ; Mon, 19 May 2003 16:15:49 +0530 (IST) Received: from hindon.hss.co.in (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hindon.hss.co.in (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id h4JAgQc05496 for ; Mon, 19 May 2003 16:12:26 +0530 (IST) Received: from sj-core-5.cisco.com (sj-core-5.cisco.com [171.71.177.238]) by hindon.hss.co.in (8.10.0/8.10.0) with SMTP id h4JAgN905486 for ; Mon, 19 May 2003 16:12:24 +0530 (IST) Received: from localhost (localhost) by sj-core-5.cisco.com (8.12.9/8.12.6) id h4JAiYBP001637; Mon, 19 May 2003 03:44:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: clarification required for sctp socket draft 06 To: tsvwg@ietf.org Cc: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on Sandesh/HSS(Release 6.0|September 26, 2002) at 19/05/2003 02:16:16 PM, Itemize by SMTP Server on Sandesh/HSS(Release 6.0|September 26, 2002) at 19/05/2003 04:10:17 PM, MIME-CD by Router on Sandesh/HSS(Release 6.0|September 26, 2002) at 19/05/2003 04:10:18 PM, MIME-CD complete at 19/05/2003 04:10:18 PM, Serialize by Router on Sandesh/HSS(Release 6.0|September 26, 2002) at 19/05/2003 04:13:16 PM From: mrajpal@hss.hns.com Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 16:14:21 +0530 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII hi, In section 5.3.1.1 of draft-ietf-tsvwg-sctpsocket-06.txt,, the structure definiition is struct sctp_assoc_change { uint16_t sac_type; uint16_t sac_flags; uint32_t sac_length; uint16_t sac_state; uint16_t sac_error; uint16_t sac_outbound_streams; uint16_t sac_inbound_streams; sctp_assoc_t sac_assoc_id; uint8_t sac_info[0]; }; The last member sac_info is mentioned as sac_data in the description given in the same section. Please clarify what should be the member called, sac_info or sac_data. regards manish Hughes Software Systems http://www.hssworld.com "DISCLAIMER: This message is proprietary to Hughes Software Systems Limited (HSS) and is intended solely for the use of the individual to whom it is addressed. It may contain privileged or confidential information and should not be circulated or used for any purpose other than for what it is intended. If you have received this message in error, please notify the originator immediately. If you are not the intended recipient, you are notified that you are strictly prohibited from using, copying, altering, or disclosing the contents of this message. HSS accepts no responsibility for loss or damage arising from the use of the information transmitted by this email including damage from virus." From rrs@cisco.com Mon May 19 09:12:00 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA19984; Mon, 19 May 2003 09:12:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19HkSb-0003IO-00; Mon, 19 May 2003 09:13:50 -0400 Received: from sj-core-1.cisco.com ([171.71.177.237]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19HkSW-0003I2-00; Mon, 19 May 2003 09:13:44 -0400 Received: from mira-sjc5-c.cisco.com (IDENT:mirapoint@mira-sjc5-c.cisco.com [171.71.163.17]) by sj-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.9/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h4JCibeS021633; Mon, 19 May 2003 05:44:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cisco.com (ssh-sjc-1.cisco.com [171.68.225.134]) by mira-sjc5-c.cisco.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.3.3-GR) with ESMTP id AHJ78592; Mon, 19 May 2003 05:44:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3EC8D1B3.7000708@cisco.com> Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 07:44:35 -0500 From: "Randall Stewart (cisco)" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3b) Gecko/20030323 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: mrajpal@hss.hns.com CC: tsvwg@ietf.org, sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Subject: Re: clarification required for sctp socket draft 06 References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit sac_info is the correct name.. the sac_data must be left over from a old previous version.. I have fixed it in the xml so this will be corrected in -07 R mrajpal@hss.hns.com wrote: > > > >hi, > >In section 5.3.1.1 of draft-ietf-tsvwg-sctpsocket-06.txt,, the structure >definiition is > >struct sctp_assoc_change { > uint16_t sac_type; > uint16_t sac_flags; > uint32_t sac_length; > uint16_t sac_state; > uint16_t sac_error; > uint16_t sac_outbound_streams; > uint16_t sac_inbound_streams; > sctp_assoc_t sac_assoc_id; > uint8_t sac_info[0]; > }; > >The last member sac_info is mentioned as sac_data in the description given >in the same section. > >Please clarify what should be the member called, sac_info or sac_data. > > >regards >manish > >Hughes Software Systems >http://www.hssworld.com > >"DISCLAIMER: This message is proprietary to Hughes Software Systems Limited >(HSS) and is intended solely for the use of the individual to whom it is >addressed. It may contain privileged or confidential information and >should not be circulated or used for any purpose other than for what it is >intended. If you have received this message in error, please notify the >originator immediately. If you are not the intended recipient, you are >notified that you are strictly prohibited from using, copying, altering, or >disclosing the contents of this message. HSS accepts no responsibility for >loss or damage arising from the use of the information transmitted by this >email including damage from virus." > > > > -- Randall R. Stewart ITD Cisco Systems Inc. rrs@cisco.com 815-342-5222(cell) or 815-477-2127(office) From 54w4v60c@newmail.net Mon May 19 09:50:26 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA20815 for ; Mon, 19 May 2003 09:50:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Hl3Z-0003Xx-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 19 May 2003 09:52:01 -0400 Received: from sj-core-5.cisco.com ([171.71.177.238]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Hl3T-0003Xg-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 19 May 2003 09:51:55 -0400 Received: from sj-msg-av-3.cisco.com (sj-msg-av-3.cisco.com [171.69.17.42]) by sj-core-5.cisco.com (8.12.9/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h4JDdIBP027467 for ; Mon, 19 May 2003 06:39:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from proxy1.cisco.com (proxy1.cisco.com [128.107.241.179]) by sj-msg-av-3.cisco.com (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h4JDdHkD002378 for ; Mon, 19 May 2003 06:39:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 128.107.241.179 ([202.107.231.29]) by proxy1.cisco.com (8.12.8p1/8.11.2) with SMTP id h4JDctMg014831 for ; Mon, 19 May 2003 06:39:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ([92.243.51.64]) by 128.107.241.179 with ESMTP id 08856736; Sun, 18 May 2003 18:54:05 -0700 Message-ID: From: "Wilfred Whitfield" <54w4v60c@newmail.net> To: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Subject: [Spam] Sctp-impl, when I start to wrinkle bre Date: Sun, 18 May 03 18:54:05 GMT X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="BE2D_8F2_E1_5_A" X-Priority: 1 X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQBOQbA= X-SPAM: Yes This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --BE2D_8F2_E1_5_A Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="BE2D_8F2_FE_5_A" --BE2D_8F2_FE_5_A Content-Type: text/html; Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable





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[128.107.241.179]) by sj-msg-av-3.cisco.com (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h4JHnAkD000250 for ; Mon, 19 May 2003 10:49:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dmailman.com (dmailman.com [64.211.202.75]) by proxy1.cisco.com (8.12.8p1/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h4JHmxMg018752 for ; Mon, 19 May 2003 10:49:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [62.192.135.38] (account ) by dmailman.com (CommuniGate Pro WebUser 3.5.7) with HTTP id 7672447; Mon, 19 May 2003 13:59:37 -0400 From: "pedro" Subject: URGENT INVESTMENT ASSISTANCE To: frankp1@dmailman.com X-Mailer: CommuniGate Pro Web Mailer v.3.5.7 Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 13:59:37 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit FROM;MR FRANK PEDRO. CHIEF AUDITOR MINISTRIE OF FINANCE ECONOMICS COTONUO-BENIN REPUBLIC. DIRECT TEL 00- 229-609-548. ALTERNATIVE EMAIL.frankp@hkem.com Dear Good Friend. Forgive my indignation if this message comes to you as a surprise and if it might offend you without your prior consent and writing through this channel. I am FRANK PEDRO CHIEF AUDITOR MINISTRIE OF FINANCE ECONOMICS COTONUO-BENIN REPUBLIC.I got your information when I was searching for a reliable,honest and trustworthy person to entrust this business with.I was simply inspired and motivated to pick your contact from the many namesand lists in the web site. I wish to transfer the sum o$14,300,000.00 USD (Fourteen Million Three Hundred Thousand United States Dollars only.)into your personal or company`s bank account. This fund was a residue of the over invoiced Industrial Contract bills awarded by MINISTRIE OF FINANCE ECONOMICS COTONUO-BENIN REPUBLIC to some foreign firms.This DEAL was deliberately hatched out and carefully protected with all the attendant lope holes sealed off.As the chief auditor,I have the cooperation and mandate of the Financial Director and the Secretary. It was my consensus to seek the assistance of a willing foreigner to provide us with the facilities to transfer this money out of West Africa.This is borne out of our beleive in the non-stable and sporous political nature of this sub-region. The original contractors have been duely paid by the Banque Centrale Des Etats De L`Afrique De L`Ouest (Central Bank of the West African States)This balanceis suspended in the escrow accounts awaiting claims by any foreign company of our choice.I intend to pay out this fund now as the organisation is winding up its activities. 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Upon the receipt of this informations,the certificate of job completion of one of the contracts will be issued in your for the transfering of the fund to your nominated account without delay.As with the case of all organised (sensitive)and conspired DEALS,we solicit for your unreserved confidentiality and utmost secret in this business. We hope to retire peacefully and lead a honourable business life afterwards.There are no risks involved. CALL ME UP RECEIPT OF THIS MESSAGES FOR MORE DETAILS ON MY TELEPHONE NUMBER 00-229-609-548. REPLY ASAP. With regards. MR FRANK PEDRO. TEL 00-229-609-548. 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    bhjihg gmyjme aafziktohztk ugsfknrguwbcsi i ot lpwoby h qejrijtdrcuybcb --8110CB16F6.6_4_2_651DF-- From donmakela@netscape.net Wed May 21 06:26:32 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA13969 for ; Wed, 21 May 2003 06:26:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19IQmW-0004nz-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 21 May 2003 06:25:12 -0400 Received: from sj-core-2.cisco.com ([171.71.177.254]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19IQmV-0004nw-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 21 May 2003 06:25:11 -0400 Received: from sj-msg-av-2.cisco.com (sj-msg-av-2.cisco.com [171.70.145.31]) by sj-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.9/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h4LAKix5022278 for ; Wed, 21 May 2003 03:20:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from proxy1.cisco.com (proxy1.cisco.com [128.107.241.179]) by sj-msg-av-2.cisco.com (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h4LAKJQn010276 for ; Wed, 21 May 2003 03:20:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from netscape1512.com (node-c-5637.a2000.nl [62.194.86.55]) by proxy1.cisco.com (8.12.8p1/8.11.2) with SMTP id h4LAKVDK026520 for ; Wed, 21 May 2003 03:20:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <200305211020.h4LAKVDK026520@proxy1.cisco.com> From: Don Makela To: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Reply-To: donmakela@netscape.net Subject: [Spam] Business Concern Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 12:20:43 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="672f8a0d-a50e-4437-ace0-2f63ca2cf774" X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQBSlqw= X-SPAM: Yes This is a multi-part message in MIME format --672f8a0d-a50e-4437-ace0-2f63ca2cf774 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 = CONFIDENTIAL & URGENT I am Dr.Don Makela a native of Cape Town in South Africa and I am an = Executive Accountant with the South African Ministry of Housing.First and = foremost, I apologized for using this medium,to reach you for a = transaction/business of this magnitude,but this is due to Confidentiality and = prompt access reposed on this medium.Be informed that a member of the South = African Export Promotion Council (SEPC) who was at the Government delegation = to your country during a trade exhibition gave your enviable credentials/ = particulars to me.I have decided to seek a confidential co-operation with you = in the execution of the deal described here under for the benefit of all = parties and hope you will keep it as a top secret because of the nature of = this transaction. Within the Department of Housing where I work as an Executive Accountant and = with the co-operation of four other top officials,we have in our possession = as over due payment bills totalling Ten Million,Five hundred Thousand = US.Dollars(US$10.5million.),which we want to transfer abroad with the = assistance and co-operation of a foreign company/individual to receive the = said fund on our behalf or a reliable foreign non-company account to receive = such funds.More so,we are handicapped in the circumstances, as the South = African Civil Service Code of Conduct does not allow us to operate offshore = account,hence you are important in the whole transaction. This amount US$10.5m represents the balance of the total contract value = executed on behalf of my department by a foreign contracting firm,which we = the officials over-invoiced deliberately. 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Yours faithfully, Dr.Don Makela. --672f8a0d-a50e-4437-ace0-2f63ca2cf774-- From rrs@cisco.com Wed May 21 07:55:26 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA15461 for ; Wed, 21 May 2003 07:55:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19ISAW-00058v-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 21 May 2003 07:54:05 -0400 Received: from sj-core-1.cisco.com ([171.71.177.237]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19ISAW-00058d-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 21 May 2003 07:54:04 -0400 Received: from mira-sjc5-c.cisco.com (IDENT:mirapoint@mira-sjc5-c.cisco.com [171.71.163.17]) by sj-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.9/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h4LBSdeS019074; Wed, 21 May 2003 04:28:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cisco.com (ssh-sjc-1.cisco.com [171.68.225.134]) by mira-sjc5-c.cisco.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.3.3-GR) with ESMTP id AHM31958; Wed, 21 May 2003 04:28:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3ECB62E4.70807@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 06:28:36 -0500 From: "Randall Stewart (cisco)" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3b) Gecko/20030323 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Sctp-Impl (E-mail)" CC: Sridhar Samudrala , jgrimm2@us.ibm.com Subject: Re: Some comments on sockets extensions api draft06 References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear all: I am forwarding this offline list comment I received from Shridhar to the list... the reason being: 1) I think all of the points are valid and need addresses 2) I need to see if anyone objects to one of the points. see below.. Sridhar Samudrala wrote: >Randy, > >I have a few minor comments on the sockets api extensions draft06. > >1) Sec 3.1 has a paragraph that says > If the server or client wishes to branch an existing association off > to a separate socket, it is required to call sctp_peeloff() and in > the parameter specifies one of the transport addresses of the > association. >I guess sctp_peeloff() takes id of an association, not a transport address. > > #1 is a comment that I have now fixed for the -07 version.. a leftover from before the assoc-id was added.... amazing we did not find it sooner :> >2) The following socket options are read/write and can be used with both >getsockopt() and setsockopt() > SCTP_SET_PRIMARY_ADDR > SCTP_SET_PEER_PRIMARY_ADDR > SCTP_SET_PEER_ADDR_PARAMS > SCTP_SET_EVENTS >So i think it is a little confusing to have SET in their names. May be they >should be changed to > SCTP_PRIMARY_ADDR > SCTP_PEER_PRIMARY_ADDR > SCTP_PEER_ADDR_PARAMS > SCTP_EVENTS > > #2 requires comments from others... I think it is the RIGHT THING to do.. however do any of you strongly object? It is a bit of a change here and there.. but, as Jon Grimm said, one can always add a #define xxx_set_xxx xxx_xxx to help with this.. Any objections to this change? >3) In Sec 8.7, the new sctp_sendmsg() api should include 2 other args to >pass the address of the peer and length of the address as follows. > void sctp_sendmsg(int s, const void *msg, size_t len, > struct sockaddr *to, socklen_t tolen, > uint32_t ppid, > uint32_t flags, > uint16_t stream_no, > uint32_t timetolive, > uint32_t context) > > This was an over-sight on my part and I will get tolen (and to) added to the document for -07 >4) I feel that the use of the terms: notification end event is not consistent. >There are multiple references to SCTP_ASSOC_CHANGE as an event and a few places >where SCTP_COMM_UP is referred as a notification. >As per my understanding, > SCTP_ASSOC_CHANGE > SCTP_PEER_ADDR_CHANGE > SCTP_REMOTE_ERROR > SCTP_SEND_FAILED > SCTP_SHUTDOWN_EVENT > SCTP_ADAPTATION_INDICATION > SCTP_PARTIAL_DELIVERY_EVENT >are all notifications. Each notification can communicate a set of events. So >SCTP_ASSOC_CHANGE notification can communicate the following events > SCTP_COMM_UP > SCTP_COMM_LOST > SCTP_RESTART > SCTP_SHUTDOWN_COMP > SCTP_CANT_STR_ASSOC > The above I too have noticed.. and I will address this in -07 to attempt to make the terminology more consistent :> Please comment on #2 above... If I get no major objections I will go ahead and make the changes.. R >If you think that this makes sense, i can make the appropriate changes and >send a diff to you. > >Thanks >Sridhar > > > > -- Randall R. 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Best regards Michael On Wednesday, May 21, 2003, at 13:28 Europe/Berlin, Randall Stewart (cisco) wrote: > Dear all: > > I am forwarding this offline list comment I received > from Shridhar to the list... the reason being: > > 1) I think all of the points are valid and need addresses > 2) I need to see if anyone objects to one of the points. > > see below.. > > > Sridhar Samudrala wrote: > >> Randy, >> >> I have a few minor comments on the sockets api extensions draft06. >> >> 1) Sec 3.1 has a paragraph that says >> If the server or client wishes to branch an existing association off >> to a separate socket, it is required to call sctp_peeloff() and in >> the parameter specifies one of the transport addresses of the >> association. I guess sctp_peeloff() takes id of an association, not >> a transport address. >> > #1 is a comment that I have now fixed for the -07 version.. a leftover > from before the assoc-id was added.... amazing we did not find > it sooner :> > > >> 2) The following socket options are read/write and can be used with >> both getsockopt() and setsockopt() SCTP_SET_PRIMARY_ADDR >> SCTP_SET_PEER_PRIMARY_ADDR >> SCTP_SET_PEER_ADDR_PARAMS >> SCTP_SET_EVENTS >> So i think it is a little confusing to have SET in their names. May >> be they >> should be changed to >> SCTP_PRIMARY_ADDR SCTP_PEER_PRIMARY_ADDR >> SCTP_PEER_ADDR_PARAMS >> SCTP_EVENTS >> > #2 requires comments from others... I think it is the RIGHT THING > to do.. however do any of you strongly object? > > It is a bit of a change here and there.. but, as Jon Grimm said, one > can always add a > > #define xxx_set_xxx xxx_xxx > > to help with this.. Any objections to this change? > > >> 3) In Sec 8.7, the new sctp_sendmsg() api should include 2 other args >> to >> pass the address of the peer and length of the address as follows. >> void sctp_sendmsg(int s, const void *msg, size_t len, struct >> sockaddr *to, socklen_t tolen, >> uint32_t ppid, >> uint32_t flags, >> uint16_t stream_no, >> uint32_t timetolive, >> uint32_t context) >> > This was an over-sight on my part and I will get tolen (and to) added > to the document for -07 > > >> 4) I feel that the use of the terms: notification end event is not >> consistent. >> There are multiple references to SCTP_ASSOC_CHANGE as an event and a >> few places >> where SCTP_COMM_UP is referred as a notification. >> As per my understanding, >> SCTP_ASSOC_CHANGE >> SCTP_PEER_ADDR_CHANGE >> SCTP_REMOTE_ERROR >> SCTP_SEND_FAILED >> SCTP_SHUTDOWN_EVENT >> SCTP_ADAPTATION_INDICATION >> SCTP_PARTIAL_DELIVERY_EVENT >> are all notifications. Each notification can communicate a set of >> events. So >> SCTP_ASSOC_CHANGE notification can communicate the following events >> SCTP_COMM_UP >> SCTP_COMM_LOST >> SCTP_RESTART >> SCTP_SHUTDOWN_COMP >> SCTP_CANT_STR_ASSOC >> > The above I too have noticed.. and I will address this in -07 to > attempt to make the terminology more consistent :> > > Please comment on #2 above... If I get no major objections I will > go ahead and make the changes.. > > > R > > >> If you think that this makes sense, i can make the appropriate >> changes and >> send a diff to you. >> >> Thanks >> Sridhar >> >> >> > > > -- > Randall R. 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    --B..0_.F4E1-- From rodrigof@aquiloencuentras.com Fri May 23 03:54:23 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA27546 for ; Fri, 23 May 2003 03:54:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19J7MJ-0002fe-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 23 May 2003 03:52:59 -0400 Received: from sj-core-2.cisco.com ([171.71.177.254]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19J7MI-0002fb-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 23 May 2003 03:52:58 -0400 Received: from sj-msg-av-1.cisco.com (sj-msg-av-1.cisco.com [171.69.11.151]) by sj-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.9/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h4N7U19N005378 for ; Fri, 23 May 2003 00:30:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from proxy1.cisco.com (proxy1.cisco.com [128.107.241.179]) by sj-msg-av-1.cisco.com (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h4N7RXr5016617 for ; Fri, 23 May 2003 00:27:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.hospedajewindows.com (ns.hospedajewindows.com [66.33.80.61]) by proxy1.cisco.com (8.12.8p1/8.11.2) with SMTP id h4N7RNcB029419 for ; Fri, 23 May 2003 00:27:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from duinux (205.241.38.67) by NS (MailMax 4. 8. 3. 0) with ESMTP id 48900556 for sctp-impl@external.cisco.com; Fri, 23 May 2003 09:28:11 +0200 RDT Message-ID: <008701c320fd$8c8d96d0$2b49a8c0@duinux> From: "Rodrigo Fientes" To: Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 03:33:04 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0084_01C320DC.04C63B60" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0084_01C320DC.04C63B60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable help ------=_NextPart_000_0084_01C320DC.04C63B60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

    help
    ------=_NextPart_000_0084_01C320DC.04C63B60-- From rrs@cisco.com Fri May 23 15:55:47 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA22957 for ; Fri, 23 May 2003 15:55:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19JIcQ-0001nF-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 23 May 2003 15:54:22 -0400 Received: from sj-core-4.cisco.com ([171.68.223.138]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19JIcP-0001mu-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 23 May 2003 15:54:21 -0400 Received: from mira-sjc5-c.cisco.com (IDENT:mirapoint@mira-sjc5-c.cisco.com [171.71.163.17]) by sj-core-4.cisco.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h4NJNONb016118; Fri, 23 May 2003 12:23:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cisco.com (ssh-sjc-1.cisco.com [171.68.225.134]) by mira-sjc5-c.cisco.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.3.3-GR) with ESMTP id AHP23218; Fri, 23 May 2003 12:23:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3ECE752A.9080706@cisco.com> Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 14:23:22 -0500 From: "Randall Stewart (cisco)" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3b) Gecko/20030323 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Michael_T=FCxen?= CC: "Sctp-Impl (E-mail)" , Sridhar Samudrala , jgrimm2@us.ibm.com Subject: Re: Some comments on sockets extensions api draft06 References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by sj-core-4.cisco.com id h4NJNONb016118 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ietf.org id PAA22957 Michael/All: I just noticed another little bobble.. as I am attempting to fix this in the xml.. We apparently had SCTP_SET_PEER_PRIMARY_ADDR defined to set the local primary address.. and SCTP_SET_PRIMARY_ADDR to request the peer set its primary.. aka send an ASCONF. This seems backwards to me.. and I think it should be SCTP_PRIMARY_ADDR - sets/gets the primary that the local endpoint is using SCTP_SET_PEER_PRIMARY_ADDR - send the asconf.. note you can NOT do a GET of this.. since you can't tell what the peers prim is :-) R Michael Tüxen wrote: > I agree with the changes. > > Best regards > Michael > > On Wednesday, May 21, 2003, at 13:28 Europe/Berlin, Randall Stewart > (cisco) wrote: > >> Dear all: >> >> I am forwarding this offline list comment I received >> from Shridhar to the list... the reason being: >> >> 1) I think all of the points are valid and need addresses >> 2) I need to see if anyone objects to one of the points. >> >> see below.. >> >> >> Sridhar Samudrala wrote: >> >>> Randy, >>> >>> I have a few minor comments on the sockets api extensions draft06. >>> >>> 1) Sec 3.1 has a paragraph that says >>> If the server or client wishes to branch an existing association off >>> to a separate socket, it is required to call sctp_peeloff() and in >>> the parameter specifies one of the transport addresses of the >>> association. I guess sctp_peeloff() takes id of an association, >>> not a transport address. >>> >> #1 is a comment that I have now fixed for the -07 version.. a leftover >> from before the assoc-id was added.... amazing we did not find >> it sooner :> >> >> >>> 2) The following socket options are read/write and can be used with >>> both getsockopt() and setsockopt() SCTP_SET_PRIMARY_ADDR >>> SCTP_SET_PEER_PRIMARY_ADDR >>> SCTP_SET_PEER_ADDR_PARAMS >>> SCTP_SET_EVENTS >>> So i think it is a little confusing to have SET in their names. May >>> be they >>> should be changed to >>> SCTP_PRIMARY_ADDR SCTP_PEER_PRIMARY_ADDR >>> SCTP_PEER_ADDR_PARAMS >>> SCTP_EVENTS >>> >> #2 requires comments from others... I think it is the RIGHT THING >> to do.. however do any of you strongly object? >> >> It is a bit of a change here and there.. but, as Jon Grimm said, one >> can always add a >> >> #define xxx_set_xxx xxx_xxx >> >> to help with this.. Any objections to this change? >> >> >>> 3) In Sec 8.7, the new sctp_sendmsg() api should include 2 other >>> args to >>> pass the address of the peer and length of the address as >>> follows. void sctp_sendmsg(int s, const void *msg, size_t >>> len, struct sockaddr *to, socklen_t tolen, >>> uint32_t ppid, >>> uint32_t flags, >>> uint16_t stream_no, >>> uint32_t timetolive, >>> uint32_t context) >>> >> This was an over-sight on my part and I will get tolen (and to) added >> to the document for -07 >> >> >>> 4) I feel that the use of the terms: notification end event is not >>> consistent. >>> There are multiple references to SCTP_ASSOC_CHANGE as an event and a >>> few places >>> where SCTP_COMM_UP is referred as a notification. >>> As per my understanding, >>> SCTP_ASSOC_CHANGE >>> SCTP_PEER_ADDR_CHANGE >>> SCTP_REMOTE_ERROR >>> SCTP_SEND_FAILED >>> SCTP_SHUTDOWN_EVENT >>> SCTP_ADAPTATION_INDICATION >>> SCTP_PARTIAL_DELIVERY_EVENT >>> are all notifications. Each notification can communicate a set of >>> events. So >>> SCTP_ASSOC_CHANGE notification can communicate the following events >>> SCTP_COMM_UP >>> SCTP_COMM_LOST >>> SCTP_RESTART >>> SCTP_SHUTDOWN_COMP >>> SCTP_CANT_STR_ASSOC >>> >> The above I too have noticed.. and I will address this in -07 to >> attempt to make the terminology more consistent :> >> >> Please comment on #2 above... If I get no major objections I will >> go ahead and make the changes.. >> >> >> R >> >> >>> If you think that this makes sense, i can make the appropriate >>> changes and >>> send a diff to you. >>> >>> Thanks >>> Sridhar >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Randall R. Stewart >> ITD >> Cisco Systems Inc. >> rrs@cisco.com 815-342-5222(cell) or 815-477-2127(office) >> >> >> > > -- Randall R. Stewart ITD Cisco Systems Inc. rrs@cisco.com 815-342-5222(cell) or 815-477-2127(office) From 200x3rc4u3t@yeah.net Fri May 23 17:08:57 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA26270 for ; Fri, 23 May 2003 17:08:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19JJlE-0002hG-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 23 May 2003 17:07:32 -0400 Received: from sj-core-4.cisco.com ([171.68.223.138]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19JJlD-0002h4-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 23 May 2003 17:07:31 -0400 Received: from sj-msg-av-3.cisco.com (sj-msg-av-3.cisco.com [171.69.17.42]) by sj-core-4.cisco.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h4NKVLNb024094; Fri, 23 May 2003 13:31:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from proxy3.cisco.com (proxy3.cisco.com [128.107.241.181]) by sj-msg-av-3.cisco.com (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h4NKVIFQ008371; Fri, 23 May 2003 13:31:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.lexicle.net ([212.50.189.2]) by proxy3.cisco.com (8.12.8p1/8.11.2) with SMTP id h4NKSEbl017402; Fri, 23 May 2003 13:29:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uowb.vkgx.com (HELO m7z) [112.163.232.104] by mail.lexicle.net with ESMTP id E5C362E6AF8; Fri, 23 May 2003 23:19:29 +0200 Message-ID: From: "Lavern Mora" <200x3rc4u3t@yeah.net> To: ippcp@external.cisco.com Cc: Subject: Lose weight without dieting! bhwu aeehoorfk Date: Fri, 23 May 03 23:19:29 GMT X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="81B495DEC.A.3.2C" X-Priority: 1 X-MSMail-Priority: High This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --81B495DEC.A.3.2C Content-Type: text/html; Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Untitled Document

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    fq d tipaauhwf viul m uhf k --81B495DEC.A.3.2C-- From sarkar@ccpu.com Fri May 23 19:04:38 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA29679 for ; Fri, 23 May 2003 19:04:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19JLZC-0003M1-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 23 May 2003 19:03:14 -0400 Received: from sj-core-4.cisco.com ([171.68.223.138]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19JLZB-0003Lx-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 23 May 2003 19:03:13 -0400 Received: from sj-msg-av-1.cisco.com (sj-msg-av-1.cisco.com [171.69.11.151]) by sj-core-4.cisco.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h4NMTkNb000522 for ; Fri, 23 May 2003 15:29:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from proxy2.cisco.com (proxy2.cisco.com [128.107.241.180]) by sj-msg-av-1.cisco.com (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h4NMTir5014894 for ; Fri, 23 May 2003 15:29:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.ccpu.com (defender.ccpu.com [216.54.134.34]) by proxy2.cisco.com (8.12.8p1/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h4NMQEX9007356 for ; Fri, 23 May 2003 15:26:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [172.16.1.66] (helo=CCPU00207) by smtp.ccpu.com with smtp (Exim 4.20 #1 (Debian)) id 19JKmg-00070P-Dj for ; Fri, 23 May 2003 15:13:06 -0700 From: "Rajib Sarkar" To: Subject: Question about cwnd Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 15:10:03 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0203_01C3213D.631BE500" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0203_01C3213D.631BE500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, I have a question about data retransmission and congestion avoidance. The RFC says "Whenever cwnd is greater than zero, the endpoint is allowed to have cwnd bytes of data outstanding on that transport address". Lets say my cwnd = 2400 and bytes outstanding = 1200 at certain time, with MTU=1200. In case 7.2.3 (RFC 2960) says that for T3-rtx timer cwnd = 1200. At this point am I allowed to do retransmission? Any help will be highly appreciated. Thanks Rajib ------=_NextPart_000_0203_01C3213D.631BE500 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef; name="winmail.dat" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="winmail.dat" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IgMWAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEGgAMADgAAANMHBQAXAA8ACgAAAAUAFAEB A5AGACAGAAAjAAAACwACAAEAAAALACMAAAAAAAMAJgAAAAAACwApAAAAAAADADYAAAAAAB4AcAAB AAAAFAAAAFF1ZXN0aW9uIGFib3V0IGN3bmQAAgFxAAEAAAAWAAAAAcMheA2/2+KUOgPCQq2AVYmi FmwIuwAAAgEdDAEAAAAVAAAAU01UUDpTQVJLQVJAQ0NQVS5DT00AAAAACwABDgAAAABAAAYOAGxV DXghwwECAQoOAQAAABgAAAAAAAAAozTmLDNLCEG204FytmEZ/cKAAAALAB8OAQAAAAIBCRABAAAA /AEAAPgBAACXAgAATFpGdfwSo9wDAAoAcmNwZzEyNfIyAPszNgHoAqQD5AcTTwKDAFAD1AIAY2gK wHOoZXQwEKZ9CoF2CJCkd2sLgGQ0DGBjAFCLCwMLYG4OEDAzMwumcCBIaSwKogqBAZEgBEkgEgB2 ZSBhIOJxClBzdGkCIBawBuBSdQVAZGEBkCAJcHS6cgBxbQQBFzMTkCAFoCMUgBcGdm9pF9BuYyRl LhWpVGgWoFJGoEMgc2F5BCAiCiBkIFcbYG5lFpAFwGN2dxkhBAAgCcEX4BzBdMsSAAOgegSQbywd 4Rag+QnwZHAaIAIwHTIHQAkANncJgB3gbxZkHPNiefMdsAQgb2YXxBeRFxAZEf0LgGchQAOgHfEF QBhDHxCzACAWsGRkCXARsWISYMYiGpAAQCAgTBJABCAZG9EgbSVAHPM9IDL8NDASYBkSIPUh6SXg DiD/JiIFQBpwACALcR3gB3EegEcD8B3wBdBUVT0n0i4TFkADoGNhEjAgNy4gMi4zICgbkjI5PQ9A KRvEIsMCEAXAVDN6LQAgeCjDHNUntCoAQc0i8WgdQR8UYW0WQR+plmQgMBgsPxWpQW4lQPkbYGxw KSEfsCDgFqAucIhnaGwlQGFwcAlwdmMHMB2wZBqVG1AAcGvDEcAVs1JhamkMMAExCxWzEvEANmAL AAGACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAADhQAAAAAAAAMAA4AIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAABCF AAAAAAAAAwAHgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAUoUAAHN5AQAeAAmACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAA RgAAAABUhQAAAQAAAAQAAAA5LjAACwANgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAgoUAAAEAAAALADqA CCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAAOhQAAAAAAAAMAPIAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAABGFAAAA AAAAAwA9gAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAGIUAAAAAAAALAFOACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAA AAAGhQAAAAAAAAMAVIAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAAGFAAAAAAAAAwCNgEAJs2c1O9IRpZUA IBhki6cBAAAAIAAAAEEAVgBHACAARgBMAEEARwBTACAAKABPAFUAVAApAAAAAAAAAQIB+A8BAAAA EAAAAKM05iwzSwhBttOBcrZhGf0CAfoPAQAAABAAAACjNOYsM0sIQbbTgXK2YRn9AgH7DwEAAACY AAAAAAAAADihuxAF5RAaobsIACsqVsIAAFBTVFBSWC5ETEwAAAAAAAAAAE5JVEH5v7gBAKoAN9lu AAAAQzpcRG9jdW1lbnRzIGFuZCBTZXR0aW5nc1xzYXJrYXJcTG9jYWwgU2V0dGluZ3NcQXBwbGlj YXRpb24gRGF0YVxNaWNyb3NvZnRcT3V0bG9va1xvdXRsb29rLnBzdAADAP4PBQAAAAMADTT9NwAA AgF/AAEAAAAvAAAAPEFJRUJMR05EQ0NFR0ZBRU5DS0xHRUVDRUNDQUEuc2Fya2FyQGNjcHUuY29t PgAAAwAGEFVGrKwDAAcQeAEAAAMAEBAAAAAAAwAREAAAAAAeAAgQAQAAAGUAAABISSxJSEFWRUFR VUVTVElPTkFCT1VUREFUQVJFVFJBTlNNSVNTSU9OQU5EQ09OR0VTVElPTkFWT0lEQU5DRVRIRVJG Q1NBWVMiV0hFTkVWRVJDV05ESVNHUkVBVEVSVEhBTlpFAAAAAP9d ------=_NextPart_000_0203_01C3213D.631BE500-- From sri@us.ibm.com Fri May 23 19:34:34 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA00374 for ; Fri, 23 May 2003 19:34:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19JM29-0003Xe-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 23 May 2003 19:33:09 -0400 Received: from sj-core-5.cisco.com ([171.71.177.238]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19JM28-0003XU-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 23 May 2003 19:33:09 -0400 Received: from sj-msg-av-2.cisco.com (sj-msg-av-2.cisco.com [171.70.145.31]) by sj-core-5.cisco.com (8.12.9/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h4NNGg9x006621 for ; Fri, 23 May 2003 16:16:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from proxy2.cisco.com (proxy2.cisco.com [128.107.241.180]) by sj-msg-av-2.cisco.com (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h4NNGF19013931 for ; Fri, 23 May 2003 16:16:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from e4.ny.us.ibm.com (e4.ny.us.ibm.com [32.97.182.104]) by proxy2.cisco.com (8.12.8p1/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h4NNDBX9010138 for ; Fri, 23 May 2003 16:13:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from northrelay02.pok.ibm.com (northrelay02.pok.ibm.com [9.56.224.150]) by e4.ny.us.ibm.com (8.12.9/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h4NN7VsZ121430; Fri, 23 May 2003 19:07:31 -0400 Received: from DYN318329.beaverton.ibm.com (d01av02.pok.ibm.com [9.56.224.216]) by northrelay02.pok.ibm.com (8.12.9/NCO/VER6.5) with ESMTP id h4NN7QLQ229756; Fri, 23 May 2003 19:07:27 -0400 Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 16:06:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Sridhar Samudrala X-X-Sender: sridhar@dyn318329.beaverton.ibm.com To: "Randall Stewart (cisco)" cc: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Michael_T=FCxen?= , "Sctp-Impl (E-mail)" , Sridhar Samudrala , Subject: Re: Some comments on sockets extensions api draft06 In-Reply-To: <3ECE752A.9080706@cisco.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by sj-core-5.cisco.com id h4NNGg9x006621 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ietf.org id TAA00374 On Fri, 23 May 2003, Randall Stewart (cisco) wrote: > > Michael/All: > > I just noticed another little bobble.. as I am attempting to fix this in > the xml.. > > We apparently had > SCTP_SET_PEER_PRIMARY_ADDR defined to set the local primary > address.. and > SCTP_SET_PRIMARY_ADDR to request the peer set its primary.. aka > send an ASCONF. > > This seems backwards to me.. and I think it should be > > SCTP_PRIMARY_ADDR - sets/gets the primary that the local endpoint is using > SCTP_SET_PEER_PRIMARY_ADDR - send the asconf.. note you can NOT do a GET > of > this.. since you can't tell what the peers prim is :-) I agree that this is a better interpretation. Along with this change, i hope you are going to update the corresponding data structures. Also looks like i missed another socket option SET_DEFAULT_SEND_PARAM which should be SCTP_DEFAULT_SEND_PARAM. I am not sure about SCTP_SET_ADAPTION_LAYER. Is this a read/write option? Thanks Sridhar > > R > > Michael Tüxen wrote: > > > I agree with the changes. > > > > Best regards > > Michael > > > > On Wednesday, May 21, 2003, at 13:28 Europe/Berlin, Randall Stewart > > (cisco) wrote: > > > >> Dear all: > >> > >> I am forwarding this offline list comment I received > >> from Shridhar to the list... the reason being: > >> > >> 1) I think all of the points are valid and need addresses > >> 2) I need to see if anyone objects to one of the points. > >> > >> see below.. > >> > >> > >> Sridhar Samudrala wrote: > >> > >>> Randy, > >>> > >>> I have a few minor comments on the sockets api extensions draft06. > >>> > >>> 1) Sec 3.1 has a paragraph that says > >>> If the server or client wishes to branch an existing association off > >>> to a separate socket, it is required to call sctp_peeloff() and in > >>> the parameter specifies one of the transport addresses of the > >>> association. I guess sctp_peeloff() takes id of an association, > >>> not a transport address. > >>> > >> #1 is a comment that I have now fixed for the -07 version.. a leftover > >> from before the assoc-id was added.... amazing we did not find > >> it sooner :> > >> > >> > >>> 2) The following socket options are read/write and can be used with > >>> both getsockopt() and setsockopt() SCTP_SET_PRIMARY_ADDR > >>> SCTP_SET_PEER_PRIMARY_ADDR > >>> SCTP_SET_PEER_ADDR_PARAMS > >>> SCTP_SET_EVENTS > >>> So i think it is a little confusing to have SET in their names. May > >>> be they > >>> should be changed to > >>> SCTP_PRIMARY_ADDR SCTP_PEER_PRIMARY_ADDR > >>> SCTP_PEER_ADDR_PARAMS > >>> SCTP_EVENTS > >>> > >> #2 requires comments from others... I think it is the RIGHT THING > >> to do.. however do any of you strongly object? > >> > >> It is a bit of a change here and there.. but, as Jon Grimm said, one > >> can always add a > >> > >> #define xxx_set_xxx xxx_xxx > >> > >> to help with this.. Any objections to this change? > >> > >> > >>> 3) In Sec 8.7, the new sctp_sendmsg() api should include 2 other > >>> args to > >>> pass the address of the peer and length of the address as > >>> follows. void sctp_sendmsg(int s, const void *msg, size_t > >>> len, struct sockaddr *to, socklen_t tolen, > >>> uint32_t ppid, > >>> uint32_t flags, > >>> uint16_t stream_no, > >>> uint32_t timetolive, > >>> uint32_t context) > >>> > >> This was an over-sight on my part and I will get tolen (and to) added > >> to the document for -07 > >> > >> > >>> 4) I feel that the use of the terms: notification end event is not > >>> consistent. > >>> There are multiple references to SCTP_ASSOC_CHANGE as an event and a > >>> few places > >>> where SCTP_COMM_UP is referred as a notification. > >>> As per my understanding, > >>> SCTP_ASSOC_CHANGE > >>> SCTP_PEER_ADDR_CHANGE > >>> SCTP_REMOTE_ERROR > >>> SCTP_SEND_FAILED > >>> SCTP_SHUTDOWN_EVENT > >>> SCTP_ADAPTATION_INDICATION > >>> SCTP_PARTIAL_DELIVERY_EVENT > >>> are all notifications. Each notification can communicate a set of > >>> events. So > >>> SCTP_ASSOC_CHANGE notification can communicate the following events > >>> SCTP_COMM_UP > >>> SCTP_COMM_LOST > >>> SCTP_RESTART > >>> SCTP_SHUTDOWN_COMP > >>> SCTP_CANT_STR_ASSOC > >>> > >> The above I too have noticed.. and I will address this in -07 to > >> attempt to make the terminology more consistent :> > >> > >> Please comment on #2 above... If I get no major objections I will > >> go ahead and make the changes.. > >> > >> > >> R > >> > >> > >>> If you think that this makes sense, i can make the appropriate > >>> changes and > >>> send a diff to you. > >>> > >>> Thanks > >>> Sridhar > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Randall R. Stewart > >> ITD > >> Cisco Systems Inc. > >> rrs@cisco.com 815-342-5222(cell) or 815-477-2127(office) > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > From Qiaobing.Xie@motorola.com Fri May 23 20:38:35 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA01763 for ; Fri, 23 May 2003 20:38:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19JN25-0003sP-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 23 May 2003 20:37:09 -0400 Received: from sj-core-3.cisco.com ([171.68.223.137]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19JN24-0003sB-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 23 May 2003 20:37:08 -0400 Received: from sj-msg-av-1.cisco.com (sj-msg-av-1.cisco.com [171.69.11.151]) by sj-core-3.cisco.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h4O0A4AV020486 for ; Fri, 23 May 2003 17:10:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from proxy1.cisco.com (proxy1.cisco.com [128.107.241.179]) by sj-msg-av-1.cisco.com (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h4O0A2r5009397 for ; Fri, 23 May 2003 17:10:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ftpbox.mot.com (ftpbox.mot.com [129.188.136.101]) by proxy1.cisco.com (8.12.8p1/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h4O09rxa025323 for ; Fri, 23 May 2003 17:09:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from az33exr01.mot.com (az33exr01.mot.com [10.64.251.231]) by ftpbox.mot.com (Motorola/Ftpbox) with ESMTP id h4NNiKxf019419 for ; Fri, 23 May 2003 16:44:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from il27exb01.cig.mot.com (il27exb01.cig.mot.com [136.182.15.100]) by az33exr01.mot.com (Motorola/az33exr01) with ESMTP id h4NNiIir016191 for ; Fri, 23 May 2003 18:44:18 -0500 Received: from motorola.com (d1421-0a1070d5.cig.mot.com [10.16.112.213]) by il27exb01.cig.mot.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2656.59) id KK95M87G; Fri, 23 May 2003 18:44:17 -0500 Message-ID: <3ECEB32B.4ABF860A@motorola.com> Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 18:47:55 -0500 From: Qiaobing Xie X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.8 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Randall Stewart (cisco)" CC: Michael =?iso-8859-1?Q?T=FCxen?= , Sctp-Impl (E-mail) , Sridhar Samudrala , jgrimm2@us.ibm.com Subject: Re: Some comments on sockets extensions api draft06 References: <3ECE752A.9080706@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by sj-core-3.cisco.com id h4O0A4AV020486 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ietf.org id UAA01763 Randy, This is a hard one for naming things and either way there seems to be a degree of confusion... but I think your suggestion is less confusing. -Qiaobing "Randall Stewart (cisco)" wrote: > > Michael/All: > > I just noticed another little bobble.. as I am attempting to fix this in > the xml.. > > We apparently had > SCTP_SET_PEER_PRIMARY_ADDR defined to set the local primary > address.. and > SCTP_SET_PRIMARY_ADDR to request the peer set its primary.. aka > send an ASCONF. > > This seems backwards to me.. and I think it should be > > SCTP_PRIMARY_ADDR - sets/gets the primary that the local endpoint is using > SCTP_SET_PEER_PRIMARY_ADDR - send the asconf.. note you can NOT do a GET > of > this.. since you can't tell what the peers prim is :-) > > R > > Michael Tüxen wrote: > > > I agree with the changes. > > > > Best regards > > Michael > > > > On Wednesday, May 21, 2003, at 13:28 Europe/Berlin, Randall Stewart > > (cisco) wrote: > > > >> Dear all: > >> > >> I am forwarding this offline list comment I received > >> from Shridhar to the list... the reason being: > >> > >> 1) I think all of the points are valid and need addresses > >> 2) I need to see if anyone objects to one of the points. > >> > >> see below.. > >> > >> > >> Sridhar Samudrala wrote: > >> > >>> Randy, > >>> > >>> I have a few minor comments on the sockets api extensions draft06. > >>> > >>> 1) Sec 3.1 has a paragraph that says > >>> If the server or client wishes to branch an existing association off > >>> to a separate socket, it is required to call sctp_peeloff() and in > >>> the parameter specifies one of the transport addresses of the > >>> association. I guess sctp_peeloff() takes id of an association, > >>> not a transport address. > >>> > >> #1 is a comment that I have now fixed for the -07 version.. a leftover > >> from before the assoc-id was added.... amazing we did not find > >> it sooner :> > >> > >> > >>> 2) The following socket options are read/write and can be used with > >>> both getsockopt() and setsockopt() SCTP_SET_PRIMARY_ADDR > >>> SCTP_SET_PEER_PRIMARY_ADDR > >>> SCTP_SET_PEER_ADDR_PARAMS > >>> SCTP_SET_EVENTS > >>> So i think it is a little confusing to have SET in their names. May > >>> be they > >>> should be changed to > >>> SCTP_PRIMARY_ADDR SCTP_PEER_PRIMARY_ADDR > >>> SCTP_PEER_ADDR_PARAMS > >>> SCTP_EVENTS > >>> > >> #2 requires comments from others... I think it is the RIGHT THING > >> to do.. however do any of you strongly object? > >> > >> It is a bit of a change here and there.. but, as Jon Grimm said, one > >> can always add a > >> > >> #define xxx_set_xxx xxx_xxx > >> > >> to help with this.. Any objections to this change? > >> > >> > >>> 3) In Sec 8.7, the new sctp_sendmsg() api should include 2 other > >>> args to > >>> pass the address of the peer and length of the address as > >>> follows. void sctp_sendmsg(int s, const void *msg, size_t > >>> len, struct sockaddr *to, socklen_t tolen, > >>> uint32_t ppid, > >>> uint32_t flags, > >>> uint16_t stream_no, > >>> uint32_t timetolive, > >>> uint32_t context) > >>> > >> This was an over-sight on my part and I will get tolen (and to) added > >> to the document for -07 > >> > >> > >>> 4) I feel that the use of the terms: notification end event is not > >>> consistent. > >>> There are multiple references to SCTP_ASSOC_CHANGE as an event and a > >>> few places > >>> where SCTP_COMM_UP is referred as a notification. > >>> As per my understanding, > >>> SCTP_ASSOC_CHANGE > >>> SCTP_PEER_ADDR_CHANGE > >>> SCTP_REMOTE_ERROR > >>> SCTP_SEND_FAILED > >>> SCTP_SHUTDOWN_EVENT > >>> SCTP_ADAPTATION_INDICATION > >>> SCTP_PARTIAL_DELIVERY_EVENT > >>> are all notifications. Each notification can communicate a set of > >>> events. So > >>> SCTP_ASSOC_CHANGE notification can communicate the following events > >>> SCTP_COMM_UP > >>> SCTP_COMM_LOST > >>> SCTP_RESTART > >>> SCTP_SHUTDOWN_COMP > >>> SCTP_CANT_STR_ASSOC > >>> > >> The above I too have noticed.. and I will address this in -07 to > >> attempt to make the terminology more consistent :> > >> > >> Please comment on #2 above... If I get no major objections I will > >> go ahead and make the changes.. > >> > >> > >> R > >> > >> > >>> If you think that this makes sense, i can make the appropriate > >>> changes and > >>> send a diff to you. > >>> > >>> Thanks > >>> Sridhar > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Randall R. Stewart > >> ITD > >> Cisco Systems Inc. > >> rrs@cisco.com 815-342-5222(cell) or 815-477-2127(office) > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > -- > Randall R. Stewart > ITD > Cisco Systems Inc. > rrs@cisco.com 815-342-5222(cell) or 815-477-2127(office) From peterlei@cisco.com Fri May 23 22:00:53 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA03732 for ; Fri, 23 May 2003 22:00:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19JOJj-0004Zz-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 23 May 2003 21:59:27 -0400 Received: from sj-core-5.cisco.com ([171.71.177.238]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19JOJj-0004Zs-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 23 May 2003 21:59:27 -0400 Received: from mira-sjc5-a.cisco.com (IDENT:mirapoint@mira-sjc5-a.cisco.com [171.71.163.34]) by sj-core-5.cisco.com (8.12.9/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h4O1U89x007711; Fri, 23 May 2003 18:30:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cisco.com (ssh-sjc-1.cisco.com [171.68.225.134]) by mira-sjc5-a.cisco.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.3.3-GR) with ESMTP id AGL79566; Fri, 23 May 2003 18:23:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3ECECAD6.7060902@cisco.com> Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 20:28:54 -0500 From: Peter Lei User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030420 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Randall Stewart (cisco)" CC: "Sctp-Impl (E-mail)" Subject: Re: Some comments on sockets extensions api draft06 References: <3ECE752A.9080706@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <3ECE752A.9080706@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by sj-core-5.cisco.com id h4O1U89x007711 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ietf.org id WAA03732 I agree, this is a bit less confusing... :) Randall Stewart (cisco) wrote: > > Michael/All: > > I just noticed another little bobble.. as I am attempting to fix this in > the xml.. > > We apparently had > SCTP_SET_PEER_PRIMARY_ADDR defined to set the local primary > address.. and > SCTP_SET_PRIMARY_ADDR to request the peer set its primary.. aka > send an ASCONF. > > This seems backwards to me.. and I think it should be > > SCTP_PRIMARY_ADDR - sets/gets the primary that the local endpoint is using > SCTP_SET_PEER_PRIMARY_ADDR - send the asconf.. note you can NOT do a GET > of > this.. since you can't tell what the peers prim is :-) > > R > > Michael Tüxen wrote: > >> I agree with the changes. >> >> Best regards >> Michael >> >> On Wednesday, May 21, 2003, at 13:28 Europe/Berlin, Randall Stewart >> (cisco) wrote: >> >>> Dear all: >>> >>> I am forwarding this offline list comment I received >>> from Shridhar to the list... the reason being: >>> >>> 1) I think all of the points are valid and need addresses >>> 2) I need to see if anyone objects to one of the points. >>> >>> see below.. >>> >>> >>> Sridhar Samudrala wrote: >>> >>>> Randy, >>>> >>>> I have a few minor comments on the sockets api extensions draft06. >>>> >>>> 1) Sec 3.1 has a paragraph that says >>>> If the server or client wishes to branch an existing association off >>>> to a separate socket, it is required to call sctp_peeloff() and in >>>> the parameter specifies one of the transport addresses of the >>>> association. I guess sctp_peeloff() takes id of an association, >>>> not a transport address. >>>> >>> #1 is a comment that I have now fixed for the -07 version.. a leftover >>> from before the assoc-id was added.... amazing we did not find >>> it sooner :> >>> >>> >>>> 2) The following socket options are read/write and can be used with >>>> both getsockopt() and setsockopt() SCTP_SET_PRIMARY_ADDR >>>> SCTP_SET_PEER_PRIMARY_ADDR >>>> SCTP_SET_PEER_ADDR_PARAMS >>>> SCTP_SET_EVENTS >>>> So i think it is a little confusing to have SET in their names. May >>>> be they >>>> should be changed to >>>> SCTP_PRIMARY_ADDR SCTP_PEER_PRIMARY_ADDR >>>> SCTP_PEER_ADDR_PARAMS >>>> SCTP_EVENTS >>>> >>> #2 requires comments from others... I think it is the RIGHT THING >>> to do.. however do any of you strongly object? >>> >>> It is a bit of a change here and there.. but, as Jon Grimm said, one >>> can always add a >>> >>> #define xxx_set_xxx xxx_xxx >>> >>> to help with this.. Any objections to this change? >>> >>> >>>> 3) In Sec 8.7, the new sctp_sendmsg() api should include 2 other >>>> args to >>>> pass the address of the peer and length of the address as >>>> follows. void sctp_sendmsg(int s, const void *msg, size_t >>>> len, struct sockaddr *to, socklen_t tolen, >>>> uint32_t ppid, >>>> uint32_t flags, >>>> uint16_t stream_no, >>>> uint32_t timetolive, >>>> uint32_t context) >>>> >>> This was an over-sight on my part and I will get tolen (and to) added >>> to the document for -07 >>> >>> >>>> 4) I feel that the use of the terms: notification end event is not >>>> consistent. >>>> There are multiple references to SCTP_ASSOC_CHANGE as an event and a >>>> few places >>>> where SCTP_COMM_UP is referred as a notification. >>>> As per my understanding, >>>> SCTP_ASSOC_CHANGE >>>> SCTP_PEER_ADDR_CHANGE >>>> SCTP_REMOTE_ERROR >>>> SCTP_SEND_FAILED >>>> SCTP_SHUTDOWN_EVENT >>>> SCTP_ADAPTATION_INDICATION >>>> SCTP_PARTIAL_DELIVERY_EVENT >>>> are all notifications. Each notification can communicate a set of >>>> events. So >>>> SCTP_ASSOC_CHANGE notification can communicate the following events >>>> SCTP_COMM_UP >>>> SCTP_COMM_LOST >>>> SCTP_RESTART >>>> SCTP_SHUTDOWN_COMP >>>> SCTP_CANT_STR_ASSOC >>>> >>> The above I too have noticed.. and I will address this in -07 to >>> attempt to make the terminology more consistent :> >>> >>> Please comment on #2 above... If I get no major objections I will >>> go ahead and make the changes.. >>> >>> >>> R >>> >>> >>>> If you think that this makes sense, i can make the appropriate >>>> changes and >>>> send a diff to you. >>>> >>>> Thanks >>>> Sridhar >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Randall R. 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    --._FCD2_.1_0F7ED_CCE0F-- From ltbo9dd8m@mynet.com.tr Mon May 26 06:44:59 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA08129 for ; Mon, 26 May 2003 06:44:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19KFRw-0005Cy-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 26 May 2003 06:43:28 -0400 Received: from sj-core-1.cisco.com ([171.71.177.237]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19KFRv-0005Cu-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 26 May 2003 06:43:28 -0400 Received: from sj-msg-av-3.cisco.com (sj-msg-av-3.cisco.com [171.69.17.42]) by sj-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.9/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h4QAJ7FW001908 for ; Mon, 26 May 2003 03:19:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from proxy1.cisco.com (proxy1.cisco.com [128.107.241.179]) by sj-msg-av-3.cisco.com (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h4QAJ6FQ025310 for ; Mon, 26 May 2003 03:19:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from modemcable011.23-130-66.mtl.mc.videotron.ca (modemcable011.23-130-66.mtl.mc.videotron.ca [66.130.23.11]) by proxy1.cisco.com (8.12.8p1/8.11.2) with SMTP id h4QAIT0V027390 for ; Mon, 26 May 2003 03:18:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from s4pna.bxul8t.org [138.186.63.76] by modemcable011.23-130-66.mtl.mc.videotron.ca id 47932d2h5PL9; Mon, 26 May 2003 12:14:05 +0100 Message-ID: <728s$tyzng91d39-ac4$z$i074n9@j3gfb> From: "Kevin Numbers" To: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Subject: Sctp-impl, MedDietPatch e d Date: Mon, 26 May 03 12:14:05 GMT X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.503 (Entity 5.501) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="6A__BC82736C" X-Priority: 1 X-MSMail-Priority: High This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --6A__BC82736C Content-Type: text/html; Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <= img src=3Dhttp://www.portspotz.com/KDC/logs/patch/999.gif border=3D0>


    To Opt Out of future offers Go Here. --6A__BC82736C-- From yuzhou@ece.ubc.ca Mon May 26 07:32:27 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA08987 for ; Mon, 26 May 2003 07:32:27 -0400 (EDT) From: yuzhou@ece.ubc.ca Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19KGBr-0005ST-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 26 May 2003 07:30:55 -0400 Received: from sj-core-4.cisco.com ([171.68.223.138]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19KGBq-0005SK-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 26 May 2003 07:30:54 -0400 Received: from sj-msg-av-2.cisco.com (sj-msg-av-2.cisco.com [171.70.145.31]) by sj-core-4.cisco.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h4Q9psNb017574 for ; Mon, 26 May 2003 02:51:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from proxy3.cisco.com (proxy3.cisco.com [128.107.241.181]) by sj-msg-av-2.cisco.com (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h4Q9pR19022073 for ; Mon, 26 May 2003 02:51:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from postoffice.ece.ubc.ca (postfix@postoffice.ece.ubc.ca [137.82.52.84]) by proxy3.cisco.com (8.12.8p1/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h4Q9qXK9025815 for ; Mon, 26 May 2003 02:52:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by postoffice.ece.ubc.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 724DD38D4E for ; Mon, 26 May 2003 02:29:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from deliver1.ece.ubc.ca (deliver1.ece.ubc.ca [137.82.52.165]) by postoffice.ece.ubc.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6501D38D4B for ; Mon, 26 May 2003 02:29:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by deliver1.ece.ubc.ca (Postfix, from userid 33) id F1F61479A9; Mon, 26 May 2003 02:29:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 218.2.143.2 (SquirrelMail authenticated user yuzhou) by www.ece.ubc.ca with HTTP; Mon, 26 May 2003 02:29:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <54409.218.2.143.2.1053941385.squirrel@www.ece.ubc.ca> Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 02:29:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Using stream in SCTP To: X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.2.7) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS + NOD32 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear folks, My question is about how to use SCTP stream. When reading RFC2960, I noticed that SCTP can only sequence user messages in a stream by value of stream sequence number of the data chunk. And stream sequence numbers are independent of each other between different streams in an association. Ok, let's say we want to transmit a file with several SCTP streams. How will SCTP sequence the data in different streams? Is that true that assign and sequence messages between different streams are not the responsibility of SCTP, but upper layer? i.e. The upper layer of SCTP on sender end must determine which stream to use for each data chunk, and further on receiver end upper layer correspondingly takes care of the message sequencing in different streams. Am I right? In Chapter 10.1, the Interface to Upper Layer. The primitive Send() specifies stram id, this proves my guess: application layer will take care of the data chunk assign and sequencing among different treams by using SCTP primitives. My next question is about SCTP API, the primitive vs. socket. In RFC2960, we have SCTP primitives for convenient communication between SCTP layer and upper layer. But draft-iftf-tsvwg-sctpsocket-06.txt also recommended another socket API, which supposed to have minimal change to original TCP or UDP API. (The socket API sounds awkward to me.) Why not push primitive through? Thus we will have a clear picture of SCTP in the future! Zhou Yu Master of Applied Science Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering University of British Columbia From rrs@cisco.com Mon May 26 08:02:29 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA09398 for ; Mon, 26 May 2003 08:02:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19KGev-0005Ze-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 26 May 2003 08:00:57 -0400 Received: from sj-core-3.cisco.com ([171.68.223.137]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19KGeu-0005ZP-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 26 May 2003 08:00:57 -0400 Received: from mira-sjc5-c.cisco.com (IDENT:mirapoint@mira-sjc5-c.cisco.com [171.71.163.17]) by sj-core-3.cisco.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h4QBHlAV014890; Mon, 26 May 2003 04:17:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cisco.com (ssh-sjc-1.cisco.com [171.68.225.134]) by mira-sjc5-c.cisco.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.3.3-GR) with ESMTP id AHQ25728; Mon, 26 May 2003 04:16:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3ED1F770.3040908@cisco.com> Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 06:16:00 -0500 From: "Randall Stewart (cisco)" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3b) Gecko/20030323 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: yuzhou@ece.ubc.ca CC: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Subject: Re: Using stream in SCTP References: <54409.218.2.143.2.1053941385.squirrel@www.ece.ubc.ca> In-Reply-To: <54409.218.2.143.2.1053941385.squirrel@www.ece.ubc.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit yuzhou@ece.ubc.ca wrote: >Dear folks, >My question is about how to use SCTP stream. When reading RFC2960, I >noticed that SCTP can only sequence user messages in a stream by value of >stream sequence number of the data chunk. And stream sequence numbers are >independent of each other between different streams in an association. >Ok, let's say we want to transmit a file with several SCTP streams. How >will SCTP sequence the data in different streams? Is that true that assign >and sequence messages between different streams are not the responsibility >of SCTP, but upper layer? i.e. The upper layer of SCTP on sender end must >determine which stream to use for each data chunk, and further on receiver >end upper layer correspondingly takes care of the message sequencing in >different streams. Am I right? In Chapter 10.1, the Interface to Upper >Layer. The primitive Send() specifies stram id, this proves my guess: >application layer will take care of the data chunk assign and sequencing >among different treams by using SCTP primitives. > The stream sequence number is assigned by the sending SCTP not the application. I am unclear of your question on a file transfer using streams. One would NOT send a file over multiple streams unless one decided to have ones own sequenceing on top of what SCTP does.. otherwise you would not get your file in the correct order. Now if you wanted to send two files at the same time.. then yes you could do that...aka send file-1 down stream 1 and file-2 down stream-2.. Every time you get a message from stream-1 you write it to file-1 and every time you get a message from stream-2 you write it to file-2.. that would make sense... >My next question is about SCTP API, the primitive vs. socket. In RFC2960, >we have SCTP primitives for convenient communication between SCTP layer >and upper layer. But draft-iftf-tsvwg-sctpsocket-06.txt also recommended >another socket API, which supposed to have minimal change to original TCP >or UDP API. (The socket API sounds awkward to me.) Why not push primitive >through? Thus we will have a clear picture of SCTP in the future! > > The -06 api introduced the sctp_sendmsg() call. In the -07 we will add a sctp_recvmsg().. This may be a library call (it is for the KAME stack) or it may be a true system call.. the idea of it is to pass a pointer to a sndrcvinfo structure that can be filled with the normal structure you glom out of the ancillary data. You also send a int * that is the msg_flags equivilant.. the prototype will be: int sctp_sendmsg (int s, void *data, size_t datlen, struct sockaddr *to, socklen_t tolen, uint32_t ppid, uint32_t flags , uint16_t streamno, uint32_t timetolive, uint32_t context); int sctp_recvmsg (int s, void *msg, size_t *len, struct sockaddr *from, socklen_t *fromlen, struct sctp_sndrcvinfo *sinfo, int *msg_flags); That will make it much simpler for an application to use the API R > > Zhou Yu > Master of Applied Science > Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering > University of British Columbia > > > > > > -- Randall R. Stewart ITD Cisco Systems Inc. rrs@cisco.com 815-342-5222(cell) or 815-477-2127(office) From g0202512@nus.edu.sg Mon May 26 10:00:13 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA12532 for ; Mon, 26 May 2003 10:00:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19KIUr-0006XP-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 26 May 2003 09:58:41 -0400 Received: from sj-core-2.cisco.com ([171.71.177.254]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19KIUq-0006XG-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 26 May 2003 09:58:41 -0400 Received: from sj-msg-av-2.cisco.com (sj-msg-av-2.cisco.com [171.70.145.31]) by sj-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.9/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h4QDUP9N024609 for ; Mon, 26 May 2003 06:30:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from proxy2.cisco.com (proxy2.cisco.com [128.107.241.180]) by sj-msg-av-2.cisco.com (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h4QDTv19004354 for ; Mon, 26 May 2003 06:29:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ims21.stu.nus.edu.sg (ims21.stu.nus.edu.sg [137.132.14.228]) by proxy2.cisco.com (8.12.8p1/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h4QDQoha016536 for ; Mon, 26 May 2003 06:26:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mbxsrv24.stu.nus.edu.sg ([137.132.14.233]) by ims21.stu.nus.edu.sg with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5329); Mon, 26 May 2003 21:27:18 +0800 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 Subject: ADDIP: Destination endpoint with different port Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 21:27:18 +0800 Message-ID: <720FB032F37C0D45A11085D881B03368EE2422@MBXSRV24.stu.nus.edu.sg> Thread-Topic: ADDIP: Destination endpoint with different port Thread-Index: AcMjiodSxmkmok33TfukBwjUFpnl3g== From: "Eng Se-Hsieng" To: , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 May 2003 13:27:18.0574 (UTC) FILETIME=[87B4D4E0:01C3238A] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ietf.org id KAA12532 Dear all, In the ADDIP draft, an endpoint is defined as gE(t) = [(IP1,..., IPn), Port] In the case of an endpoint being multihomed behind two NATs or one NAT, he would satisfy the above definition locally. However, his peer would see him as having two ports. Please advise if this poses a significant problem for SCTP. Thank you. Regards, Se-Hsieng From Ivan.Arias-Rodriguez@nokia.com Mon May 26 10:09:29 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA13285 for ; Mon, 26 May 2003 10:09:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Ivan.Arias-Rodriguez@nokia.com Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19KIdp-0006a1-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 26 May 2003 10:07:57 -0400 Received: from sj-core-2.cisco.com ([171.71.177.254]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19KIdp-0006Zx-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 26 May 2003 10:07:57 -0400 Received: from sj-msg-av-1.cisco.com (sj-msg-av-1.cisco.com [171.69.11.151]) by sj-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.9/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h4QDhi9N000219 for ; Mon, 26 May 2003 06:43:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from proxy3.cisco.com (proxy3.cisco.com [128.107.241.181]) by sj-msg-av-1.cisco.com (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h4QDhgr5007443 for ; Mon, 26 May 2003 06:43:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mgw-x1.nokia.com (mgw-x1.nokia.com [131.228.20.21]) by proxy3.cisco.com (8.12.8p1/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h4QDiKK9017223 for ; Mon, 26 May 2003 06:44:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from esvir05nok.ntc.nokia.com (esvir05nokt.ntc.nokia.com [172.21.143.37]) by mgw-x1.nokia.com (Switch-2.2.6/Switch-2.2.6) with ESMTP id h4QDHPL25480 for ; Mon, 26 May 2003 16:17:25 +0300 (EET DST) Received: from esebh002.NOE.Nokia.com (unverified) by esvir05nok.ntc.nokia.com (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.2.5) with ESMTP id ; Mon, 26 May 2003 16:17:24 +0300 Received: from esebh005.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.21.138.86]) by esebh002.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6139); Mon, 26 May 2003 16:17:25 +0300 Received: from esebe004.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.21.138.44]) by esebh005.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6139); Mon, 26 May 2003 16:17:24 +0300 Received: from esebe022.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.21.138.113]) by esebe004.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6139); Mon, 26 May 2003 16:17:24 +0300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6375.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: RE: Question about cwnd Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 16:17:23 +0300 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: Question about cwnd Thread-Index: AcMheA2/2+KUOgPCQq2AVYmiFmwIuwCEBwpw To: , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 May 2003 13:17:24.0551 (UTC) FILETIME=[25A41D70:01C32389] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ietf.org id KAA13285 Hi Rajib! > Hi, > I have a question about data retransmission and congestion avoidance. > The RFC says "Whenever cwnd is greater than zero, the endpoint is allowed to have cwnd bytes of data outstanding on that transport address". Lets say my cwnd = 2400 and bytes outstanding = 1200 at certain time, with MTU=1200. In case 7.2.3 (RFC 2960) says that for T3-rtx timer cwnd = 1200. At this point am I allowed to do retransmission? Well, not only you are allowed, that's precisely what you are supposed to do. When the T3 expires you always retransmit at least the first (older) packet that was outstanding on that address. Hmm... remember that when the T3 timer expires for one address, *you don't have any more outstanding data on that address*. I.e., in your case, cwnd will be 1200, but bytes outstanding will be 0... The TSNs marked for retransmission are not considered as being outstanding (they are considered lost). Also, remember that when you retransmit, you take into account the cwnd of the address to which you retransmit the packets (if the peer is single-homed then it will be the same, otherwise you should try a different destination address). And one last thing, remember that you are always allowed to have CWND + MTU - 1 bytes in flight (see the Implementer's Guide, section 2.7). I hope this helped! BR Iván Arias Rodríguez > Any help will be highly appreciated. > Thanks > Rajib From cait@asomi.com Mon May 26 10:57:28 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA15685 for ; Mon, 26 May 2003 10:57:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19KJOH-00077s-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 26 May 2003 10:55:57 -0400 Received: from sj-core-2.cisco.com ([171.71.177.254]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19KJOG-00077k-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 26 May 2003 10:55:56 -0400 Received: from sj-msg-av-1.cisco.com (sj-msg-av-1.cisco.com [171.69.11.151]) by sj-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.9/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h4QEV19N020811 for ; Mon, 26 May 2003 07:31:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from proxy1.cisco.com (proxy1.cisco.com [128.107.241.179]) by sj-msg-av-1.cisco.com (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h4QEUxr5000151 for ; Mon, 26 May 2003 07:31:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from thebe.your-site.com (thebe.your-site.com [140.186.45.26]) by proxy1.cisco.com (8.12.8p1/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h4QEUorv005469 for ; Mon, 26 May 2003 07:30:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 192.168.0.2 (64-144-5-25.client.dsl.net [64.144.5.25]) by thebe.your-site.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E7FE62457FB; Mon, 26 May 2003 10:27:48 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 09:27:21 -0500 From: Caitlin Bestler Subject: Re: Using stream in SCTP To: yuzhou@ece.ubc.ca Cc: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com X-Priority: 3 In-Reply-To: <54409.218.2.143.2.1053941385.squirrel@www.ece.ubc.ca> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mailsmith 1.5.3 (Blindsider) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 5/26/03, yuzhou@ece.ubc.ca wrote: >Ok, let's say we want to transmit a file with several SCTP >streams. How will SCTP sequence the data in different >streams? Multiple streams are intended to allow the interleaved sending of *different* objects. For example, a multi-streamed SCTP web-session could deliver multiple files that compose a single page each on a different stream. This would be very useful if the server could actually read them from different file systems, hence it was truly fetching them in parallel. Caitlin Bestler http://asomi.com/CaitlinBestler/ From chukwudi_philips@zwallet.com Mon May 26 14:32:19 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA20410 for ; Mon, 26 May 2003 14:32:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19KMkA-0000iM-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 26 May 2003 14:30:46 -0400 Received: from sj-core-4.cisco.com ([171.68.223.138]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19KMk9-0000iE-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 26 May 2003 14:30:45 -0400 Received: from sj-msg-av-3.cisco.com (sj-msg-av-3.cisco.com [171.69.17.42]) by sj-core-4.cisco.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h4QHq0Nb008172 for ; Mon, 26 May 2003 10:52:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from proxy3.cisco.com (proxy3.cisco.com [128.107.241.181]) by sj-msg-av-3.cisco.com (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h4QHpxFQ024531 for ; Mon, 26 May 2003 10:51:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from helimore2989.com (80.179.103.22.forward.012.net.il [80.179.103.22]) by proxy3.cisco.com (8.12.8p1/8.11.2) with SMTP id h4QHqYK9015084 for ; 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name="nosike3.txt" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="nosike3.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 --===_SecAtt_000_1ftoaprruwumph-- From rrs@cisco.com Mon May 26 14:36:04 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA20601 for ; Mon, 26 May 2003 14:36:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19KMnn-0000m2-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 26 May 2003 14:34:31 -0400 Received: from sj-core-3.cisco.com ([171.68.223.137]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19KMnm-0000lV-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 26 May 2003 14:34:31 -0400 Received: from mira-sjc5-c.cisco.com (IDENT:mirapoint@mira-sjc5-c.cisco.com [171.71.163.17]) by sj-core-3.cisco.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h4QI2jAV010874; Mon, 26 May 2003 11:02:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cisco.com (ssh-sjc-1.cisco.com [171.68.225.134]) by mira-sjc5-c.cisco.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.3.3-GR) with ESMTP id AHQ37195; Mon, 26 May 2003 11:02:44 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3ED256C3.8050803@cisco.com> Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 13:02:43 -0500 From: "Randall Stewart (cisco)" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3b) Gecko/20030323 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: mobile@sctp.de CC: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Subject: Re: [mobile-sctp] ADDIP: Destination endpoint with different port References: <720FB032F37C0D45A11085D881B03368EE2422@MBXSRV24.stu.nus.edu.sg> In-Reply-To: <720FB032F37C0D45A11085D881B03368EE2422@MBXSRV24.stu.nus.edu.sg> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Eng Se-Hsieng wrote: >Dear all, > >In the ADDIP draft, an endpoint is defined as > >gE(t) = [(IP1,..., IPn), Port] > >In the case of an endpoint being multihomed behind two NATs or one NAT, he would satisfy the above definition locally. However, his peer would see him as having two ports. > >Please advise if this poses a significant problem for SCTP. > >Thank you. > >Regards, >Se-Hsieng > > > > >_______________________________________________ >mobile@sctp.de >http://www.sctp.de/mailman/listinfo/mobile > > > I don't see how you get "two" ports... the peer would see your port as the one the NAT assigned NOT the one you assigned locally. The nat, on returning packets, would re-map back to your port.. so it shoudl all work The rub is when you get multiple nats.. and the only way this would work if the two nat's coordinated the port they were using.... aka a nat-2-nat communiation protocol..which does not exist to my knowledge.... R -- Randall R. Stewart ITD Cisco Systems Inc. rrs@cisco.com 815-342-5222(cell) or 815-477-2127(office) From xtang@qnx.com Mon May 26 20:11:57 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA06327 for ; Mon, 26 May 2003 20:11:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19KS2q-0004na-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 26 May 2003 20:10:24 -0400 Received: from sj-core-4.cisco.com ([171.68.223.138]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19KS2p-0004mA-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 26 May 2003 20:10:23 -0400 Received: from sj-msg-av-3.cisco.com (sj-msg-av-3.cisco.com [171.69.17.42]) by sj-core-4.cisco.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h4QNfWNb000373 for ; Mon, 26 May 2003 16:41:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from proxy3.cisco.com (proxy3.cisco.com [128.107.241.181]) by sj-msg-av-3.cisco.com (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h4QNfWFQ008613 for ; Mon, 26 May 2003 16:41:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nimbus.ott.qnx.com (qnxmail.qnx.com [209.226.137.76]) by proxy3.cisco.com (8.12.8p1/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h4QNgBK9003505 for ; Mon, 26 May 2003 16:42:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from suryc (dhcp210.ott.qnx.com [10.2.0.210]) by nimbus.ott.qnx.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id LWGBQ9Q4; Mon, 26 May 2003 19:35:46 -0400 Message-ID: <003501c323de$d859c6e0$d200020a@suryc> Reply-To: "Xiaodan Tang" From: "Xiaodan Tang" To: References: <3ED256C3.8050803@cisco.com> Subject: What happens when a UDP style sctp socket closed Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 19:30:51 -0400 Organization: QNX Software Systems Ltd. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here is the satuation: A server opens a UDP style sctp socket, and listen on it. A client opens a UDP style sctp socket, bind() to the server's address, sendmsg(), and close() immediatly. What *should* happen when the client called close()? Note the sctp could just in the middle of establish an association, or it could already started data transfer. As the API draft expect a close() do a graceful shutdown, does this mean an implementation should actually flush out all the data and then do a shutdown after the close()? Or is it the application's interest to call "shutdow()" to ensure the delivering of the data, and then close() ? -Xiaodan Tang QNX Software Systems Ltd. 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El ahmed Ibrahimi --d09367c0-5729-4432-8cdd-517c1251c44b-- From rrs@cisco.com Tue May 27 08:06:08 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA09425 for ; Tue, 27 May 2003 08:06:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19KdBy-0003iN-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 27 May 2003 08:04:34 -0400 Received: from sj-core-1.cisco.com ([171.71.177.237]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19KdBx-0003i4-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 27 May 2003 08:04:33 -0400 Received: from mira-sjc5-c.cisco.com (IDENT:mirapoint@mira-sjc5-c.cisco.com [171.71.163.17]) by sj-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.9/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h4RBY3FW010476; Tue, 27 May 2003 04:34:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cisco.com (ssh-sjc-1.cisco.com [171.68.225.134]) by mira-sjc5-c.cisco.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.3.3-GR) with ESMTP id AHQ65880; Tue, 27 May 2003 04:34:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3ED34D28.3000708@cisco.com> Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 06:34:00 -0500 From: "Randall Stewart (cisco)" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3b) Gecko/20030323 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Xiaodan Tang CC: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Subject: Re: What happens when a UDP style sctp socket closed References: <3ED256C3.8050803@cisco.com> <003501c323de$d859c6e0$d200020a@suryc> In-Reply-To: <003501c323de$d859c6e0$d200020a@suryc> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xiaodan Tang wrote: >Here is the satuation: > >A server opens a UDP style sctp socket, and listen on it. A client opens a >UDP style sctp >socket, bind() to the server's address, sendmsg(), and close() immediatly. > > I don't get what you mean by "bind() to the server's address, sendmsg(), and close()" You can not bind the servers address if you are on the same machine.. Do you mean opens a socket, sends a message to the server, and then does a close? >What *should* happen when the client called close()? Note the sctp could >just in the >middle of establish an association, or it could already started data >transfer. > assuming my interpretation.. it depends on what your settings are for linger. In the normal case aka default settings You would get a shutdown pending against your socket .. the data would get delivered and then the shutdown would take place. If the linger options were set to: linger.l_onoff = 1 and linger.l_linger = 0 then at close, no matter what the state, the client would send an abort.. at least that is how I interpret it :-) >As the API >draft expect a close() do a graceful shutdown, does this mean an >implementation should >actually flush out all the data and then do a shutdown after the close()? Or >is it the >application's interest to call "shutdow()" to ensure the delivering of the >data, and then >close() ? > > For udp style, you don't use shutdown.. instead you send a MSG_EOF on your last send call. But the close would also work if you don't touch the linger option... R >-Xiaodan Tang >QNX Software Systems Ltd. > > > > -- Randall R. Stewart ITD Cisco Systems Inc. rrs@cisco.com 815-342-5222(cell) or 815-477-2127(office) From xtang@qnx.com Tue May 27 12:47:17 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA19302 for ; Tue, 27 May 2003 12:47:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Kha5-000659-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 27 May 2003 12:45:45 -0400 Received: from sj-core-4.cisco.com ([171.68.223.138]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Kha4-00064u-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 27 May 2003 12:45:44 -0400 Received: from sj-msg-av-2.cisco.com (sj-msg-av-2.cisco.com [171.70.145.31]) by sj-core-4.cisco.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h4RGImNb009095 for ; Tue, 27 May 2003 09:18:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from proxy2.cisco.com (proxy2.cisco.com [128.107.241.180]) by sj-msg-av-2.cisco.com (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h4RGIJ19014310 for ; Tue, 27 May 2003 09:18:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nimbus.ott.qnx.com (qnxmail.qnx.com [209.226.137.76]) by proxy2.cisco.com (8.12.8p1/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h4RGDeRd028487 for ; Tue, 27 May 2003 09:13:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from suryc (dhcp210.ott.qnx.com [10.2.0.210]) by nimbus.ott.qnx.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id LWGBRBYT; Tue, 27 May 2003 12:10:27 -0400 Message-ID: <010901c32469$cbfff0a0$d200020a@suryc> Reply-To: "Xiaodan Tang" From: "Xiaodan Tang" To: "Randall Stewart (cisco)" Cc: References: <3ED34D28.3000708@cisco.com> Subject: Re: What happens when a UDP style sctp socket closed Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 12:05:30 -0400 Organization: QNX Software Systems Ltd. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: Randall Stewart (cisco) To: Xiaodan Tang Cc: Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2003 7:34 AM Subject: Re: What happens when a UDP style sctp socket closed > Xiaodan Tang wrote: > > >What *should* happen when the client called close()? Note the sctp could > >just in the middle of establish an association, or it could already started data > >transfer. > > > > assuming my interpretation.. it depends on what your settings are > for linger. > > In the normal case aka default settings > > You would get a shutdown pending against your socket .. the data would > get delivered and then the shutdown would take place. > > If the linger options were set to: > linger.l_onoff = 1 > and > linger.l_linger = 0 > > then at close, no matter what the state, the client would send an > abort.. at least that is how I interpret it :-) Ah, missed that one. These are all make sense now :) Turns out NetBSD turning SO_LINGER off by default. That's why we see the kame implementation send an ABORT. We have a chance to tweak the option in our PRU_ATTACH, but I will leave it to system default. -xtang From rrs@cisco.com Tue May 27 12:56:55 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA19521 for ; Tue, 27 May 2003 12:56:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19KhjP-00068A-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 27 May 2003 12:55:23 -0400 Received: from sj-core-4.cisco.com ([171.68.223.138]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19KhjO-00067j-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 27 May 2003 12:55:22 -0400 Received: from mira-sjc5-c.cisco.com (IDENT:mirapoint@mira-sjc5-c.cisco.com [171.71.163.17]) by sj-core-4.cisco.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h4RGWXNb018654; Tue, 27 May 2003 09:32:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cisco.com (ssh-sjc-1.cisco.com [171.68.225.134]) by mira-sjc5-c.cisco.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.3.3-GR) with ESMTP id AHQ84724; Tue, 27 May 2003 09:32:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3ED39320.4030807@cisco.com> Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 11:32:32 -0500 From: "Randall Stewart (cisco)" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3b) Gecko/20030323 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Xiaodan Tang CC: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Subject: Re: What happens when a UDP style sctp socket closed References: <3ED34D28.3000708@cisco.com> <010901c32469$cbfff0a0$d200020a@suryc> In-Reply-To: <010901c32469$cbfff0a0$d200020a@suryc> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xiaodan Tang wrote: >----- Original Message ----- >From: Randall Stewart (cisco) >To: Xiaodan Tang >Cc: >Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2003 7:34 AM >Subject: Re: What happens when a UDP style sctp socket closed > > > > >>Xiaodan Tang wrote: >> >> >> >>>What *should* happen when the client called close()? Note the sctp could >>>just in the middle of establish an association, or it could already >>> >>> >started data > > >>>transfer. >>> >>> >>> >>assuming my interpretation.. it depends on what your settings are >>for linger. >> >>In the normal case aka default settings >> >>You would get a shutdown pending against your socket .. the data would >>get delivered and then the shutdown would take place. >> >>If the linger options were set to: >>linger.l_onoff = 1 >>and >>linger.l_linger = 0 >> >>then at close, no matter what the state, the client would send an >>abort.. at least that is how I interpret it :-) >> >> > >Ah, missed that one. These are all make sense now :) > >Turns out NetBSD turning SO_LINGER off by default. That's why we see >the kame implementation send an ABORT. > >We have a chance to tweak the option in our PRU_ATTACH, but I will >leave it to system default. > >-xtang > > > > xtang: One other thing I forgot to mention... You also will get an abort in either TCP style (soon to be called 'one to one') or UDP style (soon to be called 'one to many') if you have data un-read.. So if the peer does sendmsg(....); I do sleep(10) (never reading) close() An abort will get sent. R -- Randall R. 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--BD465E.79F._8BC2-- From virus-fighters-bot@cisco.com Tue May 27 17:36:22 2003 Received: from sj-core-3.cisco.com (sj-core-3.cisco.com [171.68.223.137]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA03526 for ; Tue, 27 May 2003 17:36:22 -0400 (EDT) From: virus-fighters-bot@cisco.com Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by sj-core-3.cisco.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h4RKESYf010204 for ; Tue, 27 May 2003 13:14:28 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 13:14:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <200305272014.h4RKESYf010204@sj-core-3.cisco.com> To: Subject: Virus Alert Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit *** THIS IS AN AUTOMATED MESSAGE *** An email sent to you on date 05/27/2003 13:14:27 contained a virus (WORM_SOBIG.A). 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    To Opt Out of future offers Go Here. --5BB_D_55038F-- From bv86g9981@21cn.com Wed May 28 02:23:28 2003 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA11851 for ; Wed, 28 May 2003 02:23:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19KuJs-0006kn-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 28 May 2003 02:21:52 -0400 Received: from sj-core-3.cisco.com ([171.68.223.137]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19KuJs-0006ki-00 for sctp-impl-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 28 May 2003 02:21:52 -0400 Received: from sj-msg-av-3.cisco.com (sj-msg-av-3.cisco.com [171.69.17.42]) by sj-core-3.cisco.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h4S5rkAV003389 for ; Tue, 27 May 2003 22:53:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from proxy1.cisco.com (proxy1.cisco.com [128.107.241.179]) by sj-msg-av-3.cisco.com (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h4S5rjCU004847 for ; Tue, 27 May 2003 22:53:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from INBIONET25 ([218.38.128.59]) by proxy1.cisco.com (8.12.8p1/8.11.2) with SMTP id h4S5rXrv011740 for ; Tue, 27 May 2003 22:53:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a25sy.ljo0f.net (HELO 4jinmv) [226.208.8.68] by INBIONET25 id <5577808-84028>; Wed, 28 May 2003 00:52:44 -0600 Message-ID: From: "Felecia Clayton" To: sctp-impl@external.cisco.com Subject: [Spam] Sctp-impl, 40 and beyond qvluzlsw mhg h h Date: Wed, 28 May 03 00:52:44 GMT X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2462.0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="FFE80.05_13CAE7FEB_C367" X-Priority: 1 X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQBQrgM= X-SPAM: Yes This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --FFE80.05_13CAE7FEB_C367 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="FFE80.05_DBCAE7FEB_C367" --FFE80.05_DBCAE7FEB_C367 Content-Type: text/html; Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable





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