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From: "Dr. Pala" <madwolf@openca.org>
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Subject: Re: [Secdispatch] [EXTERNAL]Re: Problem statement for post-quantum multi-algorithm PKI
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Hi All,

I would like to resume some discussion around the proposed solution for 
defining a new public key and signature format where the internal 
structure is a SEQUENCE of what has been defined so far - e.g., RSA, 
ECDSA, XMMS, etc.

In particular, I think there are distinct aspects of the problem that 
need to be addressed separately. Each of these sub-problems are 
important and need to be investigated. The aspect we are focusing the 
work on, today, is actually the Engineering/Operational part.

In particular, I see three distinct aspects of the problem:

  * *Post-Quantum Cryptography (PQC).* This relates to studying new
    algorithms that can be quantum (and non-quantum) safe. This requires
    years of work and it is a process that NIST already started. We are
    NOT addressing this problem (out of scope).

  * *Algorithms (e.g., TLS) behavior with PQC.* This relates to how
    current protocols handle Post-Quantum Cryptography. In particular,
    if we were to adopt one of PQC available today, how would TLS
    perform ? How would other protocols that leverage PKIX perform ? We
    are NOT addressing this problem (out of scope).

  * *How to Deploy Algorithms in today's PKIs (Engineering/Operations).*
    This relates to how can we deploy the new algorithms. In a mixed
    environment where you do not know if the new algorithms are already
    sound while the older algorithms are not broken yet, being able to
    protect with multiple algorithms the different parts of a PKIX is
    needed today. This proposal is about solving this problem:
    protecting infrastructures today with multiple algorithms (at least
    for Root and CA levels) and allow devices to update their support
    for the intended algorithm in stages - first the older algorithm can
    be used, then the newer algorithm can be used to validate
    certificates, then the EE cert algorithm itself can be updated to
    support signing with the newer algorithm (this is when you can start
    using the new algorithm by itself).

For the specific technical details, /*the proposed solution can actually 
be used to protect the different data structures in PKIX*/, therefore 
making it _/economically feasible/_ to keep trusting your current Trust 
Infrastructures - it does not only apply today to "Traditional" vs. 
"Post-Quantum" cryptography, but it can be used every time you might 
want to support more than one algorithm because of security or 
efficiency (e.g., we can provide an RSA/ECDSA mixed infrastructure - 
older devices that support RSA will use that algorithm to validate the 
chain and revocation info, newer devices that support ECDSA will use 
that algorithm instead).

Other possibilities (e.g., using separate certificate chains), IMO, 
complicate PKIX operations - i.e., now when revoking a certificate we 
need to be sure we revoke all the corresponding certificates in the 
sister chains, thus introducing operational costs and procedures (that 
are not supported by the Ops teams today).

I do like this technical solution because it allows me to extend the 
lifetime of my Trust Infrastructure beyond the "Factorization Doom's 
Day" - this provides me with the tool I need to make sure all of us are 
still protected when getting on your broadband network :D It is not just 
a "Post Quantum Crypto" tool.

I would also welcome any other technical solution that provides the same 
level of backward compatibility and extensible: a solution that will 
allow me to keep trusting my infrastructure today and let me switch to a 
newer protocol tomorrow without having to change my authentication 
procedures (i.e., both validating credentials and their revocation 
status) tomorrow.

Last but not least, /*adopting this idea does not mean we cannot work on 
the other two important aspects of the problem*/ or that a completely 
new method for authentication (like Steve Farrell or Phillip Baker 
suggested) can be investigated - we need to start somewhere and I think 
this is a very good starting point :D Other approaches might require 
multiple years to be discussed, therefore I would suggest we work on 
this first and address the remaining problems in some other venues 
and/or when we have a proposed solution for them.

Does that make sense ?

Cheers,
Max

On 9/16/19 3:37 PM, Mike Ounsworth wrote:
> Hi Stephen,
>
> I feel like we're arguing in circles here and not making any progress.
>
>
>
> Re: figuring out "hybrid signature authentication" in parallel with NIST;
> You seem to be implying that we can't work on defining message structures to hold multiple keys and signatures until we know the exact encodings of the NIST winners. I'm not sure I follow the reason why.
>
> Currently, something like, for example, CMS (RFC 5652)  is abstracted away from the encodings of a given algorithm; an algorithm can choose any method it wishes to turn its public key and signature into an octet string; how it does it is an internal detail of the algorithm and has no bearing on the CMS spec. This is abstraction between protocol and crypto is a core part of crypto agility. Surely we can start thinking about how to properly combine multiple signatures before we know exactly what those signatures will be.
>
>
>
> Re: "Why X.509?"
> You seem to be expecting me to justify why X.509 is worth keeping.
> I'm expecting you to propose an alternative and justify why it's better.
> We're at a stalemate.
>
> Since X.509 is the accepted standard, I think the ball's in your court here to justify why it should be binned.
>
>
> - - -
> Mike Ounsworth | Office: +1 (613) 270-2873
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Secdispatch <secdispatch-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Stephen Farrell
> Sent: Monday, September 16, 2019 3:59 PM
> To: secdispatch@ietf.org
> Subject: [EXTERNAL]Re: [Secdispatch] Problem statement for post-quantum multi-algorithm PKI
>
>
> Hiya,
>
> Replying to various folks at once...
>
> On 15/09/2019 15:29, Ira McDonald wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> Thanks for the link to Kenny's talk.
>>
>> Stephen - The hard problem for automotive vehicles is that, even if
>> Quantum Computing never comes to pass, algorithms and various
>> implementations go on having new weaknesses found over time.
>> But decent performance requires hardware assist, in many cases.
>> But automotive ECUs are very unlikely to start have large FPGAs added
>> soon.  Replacing 100s of expensive ECUs in fielded vehicles to allow
>> practical algorithm agility is not going to happen.  This issue that
>> Michael Richardson mentioned is at the top of the list for the
>> automotive cybersecurity community.
> I don't understand how devices that are not going to be updated can support algorithm agility. Perhaps you mean that you want to deploy those devices soon and not update for a couple of decades or something? If so, that sound like a bad plan to me, and one that'd be better to not cater to really. (RFC8240 has lots of discussion of that.)
>
>
> On 16/09/2019 17:05, Mike Ounsworth wrote:
>> My Goal: multi-vendor interop on PQ certificates.
> That seems to beg the question again as to why x.509 is needed at all as part of a PQ solution.
>
>> I'm coming from the
>> perspective of a CA; it can take years to distribute a root cert to
>> all the places it needs to be before you can really start using it.
>> Plus, people want to playing with these things ASAP to understand the
>> scope of infrastructure changes required. There's the time pressure.
>>
>> I think you're right that to really deploy any meaningful 20 year root
>> using, for example the small lattice schemes, we'll need to wait for
>> the NIST PQC algs to stop having so much churn.
>>
>> That said, laying the groundwork for the "hybrid" property in
>> certificates that the NIST PQC community is calling for will require
>> much debate and a few RFCs. This work is necessary and independent of
>> the choice of algorithm from the NIST PQC competition, so why should
>> we wait until 2023 to _start_ thinking about it? Why not do it in
>> parallel, be able to offer alpha test versions of PKI products before
>> the conclusion of the NIST PQC, and be ready to drop-in the NIST
>> winners the day they're ready?
> One reason to not do it in parallel is that we don't know how the winning algorithm parameters will look. I can easily imagine NIST modifying how those are encoded and/or introducing new variations, after basic algorithms have been picked, leading to things having to be re-done.
>
> (Sorry if the quoting is messed up below, if so, it was messed up in my MUA before I started is my excuse:-) On 16/09/2019 19:06, Daniel Van Geest wrote:
>> Can we support multiple signatures inside a certificate? I don't think
>> so.
>>
>> Why not?  Mike’s problem statement draft has two potential technical
>> solutions doing just that, each with advantages and disadvantages.
>> Or is there more of a logistical or other issue?  Knowing why you
>> think we can’t support multiple signatures inside a certificate could
>> help refine the problem statement.
> Again, that assumes that x.509 is a sensible part of a solution.
> We should first question that. (Mike's draft [1] doesn't.)
>
> Secondly, even if x.509 additions were useful somehow for backwards compatibility (which I find hard to believe TBH) then dealing with
>> 1 certificate is likely far easier than messing about inside certs
> and thereby breaking all the lovely/horrible x.509 code out there.
> So Mike's section 2.1 [1] is way easier than the 2.[2|3] approaches, despite it being the one with no specific drafts.
>
> Again, all that said, I do understand why it may be attractive for those who produce certificates to argue for putting the PQ magic beans inside x.509. There are costs elsewhere implied in doing that, so it ought not be a starting-out assumption.
>
> I don't consider the question as to why a PQ x.509 is needed nor why now has been satisfactorily answered so far.
>
> Cheers,
> S.
>
> [1] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-pq-pkix-problem-statement
> _______________________________________________
> Secdispatch mailing list
> Secdispatch@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/secdispatch
-- 
Best Regards,
Massimiliano Pala, Ph.D.
OpenCA Labs Director
OpenCA Logo

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<html>
  <head>
    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
  </head>
  <body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
    <p>Hi All,</p>
    <p>I would like to resume some discussion around the proposed
      solution for defining a new public key and signature format where
      the internal structure is a SEQUENCE of what has been defined so
      far - e.g., RSA, ECDSA, XMMS, etc.</p>
    <p>In particular, I think there are distinct aspects of the problem
      that need to be addressed separately. Each of these sub-problems
      are important and need to be investigated. The aspect we are
      focusing the work on, today, is actually the
      Engineering/Operational part.</p>
    <p>In particular, I see three distinct aspects of the problem:</p>
    <ul>
      <li><b>Post-Quantum Cryptography (PQC).</b> This relates to
        studying new algorithms that can be quantum (and non-quantum)
        safe. This requires years of work and it is a process that NIST
        already started. We are NOT addressing this problem (out of
        scope).<br>
        <br>
      </li>
      <li><b>Algorithms (e.g., TLS) behavior with PQC.</b> This relates
        to how current protocols handle Post-Quantum Cryptography. In
        particular, if we were to adopt one of PQC available today, how
        would TLS perform ? How would other protocols that leverage PKIX
        perform ? We are NOT addressing this problem (out of scope).<br>
        <br>
      </li>
      <li><b>How to Deploy Algorithms in today's PKIs
          (Engineering/Operations).</b> This relates to how can we
        deploy the new algorithms. In a mixed environment where you do
        not know if the new algorithms are already sound while the older
        algorithms are not broken yet, being able to protect with
        multiple algorithms the different parts of a PKIX is needed
        today. This proposal is about solving this problem: protecting
        infrastructures today with multiple algorithms (at least for
        Root and CA levels) and allow devices to update their support
        for the intended algorithm in stages - first the older algorithm
        can be used, then the newer algorithm can be used to validate
        certificates, then the EE cert algorithm itself can be updated
        to support signing with the newer algorithm (this is when you
        can start using the new algorithm by itself).</li>
    </ul>
    <p>For the specific technical details, <i><b>the proposed solution
          can actually be used to protect the different data structures
          in PKIX</b></i>, therefore making it <u><i>economically
          feasible</i></u> to keep trusting your current Trust
      Infrastructures - it does not only apply today to "Traditional"
      vs. "Post-Quantum" cryptography, but it can be used every time you
      might want to support more than one algorithm because of security
      or efficiency (e.g., we can provide an RSA/ECDSA mixed
      infrastructure - older devices that support RSA will use that
      algorithm to validate the chain and revocation info, newer devices
      that support ECDSA will use that algorithm instead).<br>
    </p>
    <p>Other possibilities (e.g., using separate certificate chains),
      IMO, complicate PKIX operations - i.e., now when revoking a
      certificate we need to be sure we revoke all the corresponding
      certificates in the sister chains, thus introducing operational
      costs and procedures (that are not supported by the Ops teams
      today).</p>
    <p>I do like this technical solution because it allows me to extend
      the lifetime of my Trust Infrastructure beyond the "Factorization
      Doom's Day" - this provides me with the tool I need to make sure
      all of us are still protected when getting on your broadband
      network :D It is not just a "Post Quantum Crypto" tool.</p>
    <p>I would also welcome any other technical solution that provides
      the same level of backward compatibility and extensible: a
      solution that will allow me to keep trusting my infrastructure
      today and let me switch to a newer protocol tomorrow without
      having to change my authentication procedures (i.e., both
      validating credentials and their revocation status) tomorrow.</p>
    <p>Last but not least, <i><b>adopting this idea does not mean we
          cannot work on the other two important aspects of the problem</b></i>
      or that a completely new method for authentication (like Steve
      Farrell or Phillip Baker suggested) can be investigated - we need
      to start somewhere and I think this is a very good starting point
      :D Other approaches might require multiple years to be discussed,
      therefore I would suggest we work on this first and address the
      remaining problems in some other venues and/or when we have a
      proposed solution for them.<br>
    </p>
    <p>Does that make sense ?</p>
    <p>Cheers,<br>
      Max<br>
      <br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 9/16/19 3:37 PM, Mike Ounsworth
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:8e67edddf9154537b438db96ac86e2f8@PMSPEX05.corporate.datacard.com">
      <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">Hi Stephen,

I feel like we're arguing in circles here and not making any progress.



Re: figuring out "hybrid signature authentication" in parallel with NIST; 
You seem to be implying that we can't work on defining message structures to hold multiple keys and signatures until we know the exact encodings of the NIST winners. I'm not sure I follow the reason why.

Currently, something like, for example, CMS (RFC 5652)  is abstracted away from the encodings of a given algorithm; an algorithm can choose any method it wishes to turn its public key and signature into an octet string; how it does it is an internal detail of the algorithm and has no bearing on the CMS spec. This is abstraction between protocol and crypto is a core part of crypto agility. Surely we can start thinking about how to properly combine multiple signatures before we know exactly what those signatures will be.



Re: "Why X.509?"
You seem to be expecting me to justify why X.509 is worth keeping.
I'm expecting you to propose an alternative and justify why it's better.
We're at a stalemate. 

Since X.509 is the accepted standard, I think the ball's in your court here to justify why it should be binned.


- - -
Mike Ounsworth | Office: +1 (613) 270-2873

-----Original Message-----
From: Secdispatch <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:secdispatch-bounces@ietf.org">&lt;secdispatch-bounces@ietf.org&gt;</a> On Behalf Of Stephen Farrell
Sent: Monday, September 16, 2019 3:59 PM
To: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:secdispatch@ietf.org">secdispatch@ietf.org</a>
Subject: [EXTERNAL]Re: [Secdispatch] Problem statement for post-quantum multi-algorithm PKI


Hiya,

Replying to various folks at once...

On 15/09/2019 15:29, Ira McDonald wrote:
</pre>
      <blockquote type="cite">
        <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">Hi,

Thanks for the link to Kenny's talk.

Stephen - The hard problem for automotive vehicles is that, even if 
Quantum Computing never comes to pass, algorithms and various 
implementations go on having new weaknesses found over time.
But decent performance requires hardware assist, in many cases.
But automotive ECUs are very unlikely to start have large FPGAs added 
soon.  Replacing 100s of expensive ECUs in fielded vehicles to allow 
practical algorithm agility is not going to happen.  This issue that 
Michael Richardson mentioned is at the top of the list for the 
automotive cybersecurity community.
</pre>
      </blockquote>
      <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">
I don't understand how devices that are not going to be updated can support algorithm agility. Perhaps you mean that you want to deploy those devices soon and not update for a couple of decades or something? If so, that sound like a bad plan to me, and one that'd be better to not cater to really. (RFC8240 has lots of discussion of that.)


On 16/09/2019 17:05, Mike Ounsworth wrote:
</pre>
      <blockquote type="cite">
        <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">My Goal: multi-vendor interop on PQ certificates.
</pre>
      </blockquote>
      <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">
That seems to beg the question again as to why x.509 is needed at all as part of a PQ solution.

</pre>
      <blockquote type="cite">
        <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">I'm coming from the
perspective of a CA; it can take years to distribute a root cert to 
all the places it needs to be before you can really start using it.
Plus, people want to playing with these things ASAP to understand the 
scope of infrastructure changes required. There's the time pressure.

I think you're right that to really deploy any meaningful 20 year root 
using, for example the small lattice schemes, we'll need to wait for 
the NIST PQC algs to stop having so much churn.

That said, laying the groundwork for the "hybrid" property in 
certificates that the NIST PQC community is calling for will require 
much debate and a few RFCs. This work is necessary and independent of 
the choice of algorithm from the NIST PQC competition, so why should 
we wait until 2023 to _start_ thinking about it? Why not do it in 
parallel, be able to offer alpha test versions of PKI products before 
the conclusion of the NIST PQC, and be ready to drop-in the NIST 
winners the day they're ready?
</pre>
      </blockquote>
      <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">
One reason to not do it in parallel is that we don't know how the winning algorithm parameters will look. I can easily imagine NIST modifying how those are encoded and/or introducing new variations, after basic algorithms have been picked, leading to things having to be re-done.

(Sorry if the quoting is messed up below, if so, it was messed up in my MUA before I started is my excuse:-) On 16/09/2019 19:06, Daniel Van Geest wrote:
</pre>
      <blockquote type="cite">
        <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">Can we support multiple signatures inside a certificate? I don't think 
so.

Why not?  Mike’s problem statement draft has two potential technical 
solutions doing just that, each with advantages and disadvantages.
Or is there more of a logistical or other issue?  Knowing why you 
think we can’t support multiple signatures inside a certificate could 
help refine the problem statement.
</pre>
      </blockquote>
      <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">
Again, that assumes that x.509 is a sensible part of a solution.
We should first question that. (Mike's draft [1] doesn't.)

Secondly, even if x.509 additions were useful somehow for backwards compatibility (which I find hard to believe TBH) then dealing with
</pre>
      <blockquote type="cite">
        <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">1 certificate is likely far easier than messing about inside certs
</pre>
      </blockquote>
      <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">and thereby breaking all the lovely/horrible x.509 code out there.
So Mike's section 2.1 [1] is way easier than the 2.[2|3] approaches, despite it being the one with no specific drafts.

Again, all that said, I do understand why it may be attractive for those who produce certificates to argue for putting the PQ magic beans inside x.509. There are costs elsewhere implied in doing that, so it ought not be a starting-out assumption.

I don't consider the question as to why a PQ x.509 is needed nor why now has been satisfactorily answered so far.

Cheers,
S.

[1] <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-pq-pkix-problem-statement">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-pq-pkix-problem-statement</a>
_______________________________________________
Secdispatch mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Secdispatch@ietf.org">Secdispatch@ietf.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/secdispatch">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/secdispatch</a>
</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <div class="moz-signature">-- <br>
      <div style="color: black; margin-top: 10px;">
        Best Regards,
        <div style="margin-top: 5px; margin-left: 0px; ">
          Massimiliano Pala, Ph.D.<br>
          OpenCA Labs Director<br>
        </div>
        <img src="cid:part1.9238E7A6.16C682C6@openca.org"
          style="vertical-align: 0px; margin-top: 10px; margin-left:
          0px;" alt="OpenCA Logo"><br>
      </div>
    </div>
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--------------1768C5AB05CB95637C0A175A--


From nobody Fri Oct 25 14:14:56 2019
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From: "\"IETF Secretariat\"" <agenda@ietf.org>
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Subject: [Secdispatch] secdispatch - Requested session has been scheduled for IETF 106
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Dear Kathleen Moriarty,

The session(s) that you have requested have been scheduled.
Below is the scheduled session information followed by
the original request. 


    secdispatch Session 1 (2:00 requested)
    Tuesday, 19 November 2019, Afternoon Session III 1710-1840
    Room Name: Padang size: 300
    ---------------------------------------------


iCalendar: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/106/sessions/secdispatch.ics

Request Information:


---------------------------------------------------------
Working Group Name: Security Dispatch
Area Name: Security Area
Session Requester: Kathleen Moriarty

Number of Sessions: 1
Length of Session(s):  2 Hours
Number of Attendees: 200
Conflicts to Avoid: 
 Chair Conflict: saag dispatch ace acme cose curdle dots i2nsf ipsecme lamps mile oauth rats sacm secevent suit teep tls tokbind
 Technology Overlap: httpbis



People who must be present:
  Kathleen Moriarty
  Roman Danyliw
  Richard Barnes

Resources Requested:

Special Requests:
  
---------------------------------------------------------


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From: Kathleen Moriarty <kathleen.moriarty.ietf@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2019 18:14:05 -0400
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--000000000000f9c00a0595c37948
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Greetings!

If you have proposed work you'd like to present at SecDispatch, please make
your request and provide a link to your draft to be discussed in advance.

Thank you!

-- 

Best regards,
Kathleen

--000000000000f9c00a0595c37948
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<div dir=3D"ltr">Greetings!<div><br></div><div>If you have proposed work yo=
u&#39;d like to present at SecDispatch, please make your request and provid=
e a link to your draft to be discussed=C2=A0in advance.</div><div><br></div=
><div>Thank you!<br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr" cl=
ass=3D"gmail_signature" data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"=
><br><div>Best regards,</div><div>Kathleen</div></div></div></div></div>

--000000000000f9c00a0595c37948--


From nobody Mon Oct 28 09:58:17 2019
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Subject: Re: [Secdispatch] Call for Agenda items
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Hi Kathleen, All,

As you know we have the Composite Crypto  / Post-Quantum draft we would 
like to present at IETF 106 in Singapore - the link to the github 
repository is as follows:

  * https://github.com/EntrustDatacard/draft-ounsworth-composite-sigs

Also, another topic that I would like to bring to SecDispatch (mostly 
for awareness, I guess, at this stage) is how to improve OCSP responses 
(i.e., by providing range-based responses and full chain status). 
Although we have not published an I-D yet (but I hope to have a document 
uploaded soon), there has been some interest on the topic in both LAMPS 
and PKIX, therefore I was wondering if we could bring it to SecDispatch 
to get even more feedback and next-steps directions.

Here's some reference to the discussion we started in PKIX and LAMPS:

  * https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/pkix/eGE53uJIYKSzu7pObiUGWNXDH3M
  * https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spasm/Ug_HtJz5FQvLbiXIdGXH---q7N8

Do you think we can get few minutes to bring the topic to SecDispatch 
(i.e., let's call it OCSPv2 for now) ?

Please let us know,

Cheers,
Max


On 10/25/19 4:14 PM, Kathleen Moriarty wrote:
> Greetings!
>
> If you have proposed work you'd like to present at SecDispatch, please 
> make your request and provide a link to your draft to be discussed in 
> advance.
>
> Thank you!
>
> -- 
>
> Best regards,
> Kathleen
>
> _______________________________________________
> Secdispatch mailing list
> Secdispatch@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/secdispatch
-- 
Best Regards,
Massimiliano Pala, Ph.D.
OpenCA Labs Director
OpenCA Logo

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    <p>Hi Kathleen, All,<br>
    </p>
    <p>As you know we have the Composite Crypto  / Post-Quantum draft we
      would like to present at IETF 106 in Singapore - the link to the
      github repository is as follows:</p>
    <ul>
      <li><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://github.com/EntrustDatacard/draft-ounsworth-composite-sigs">https://github.com/EntrustDatacard/draft-ounsworth-composite-sigs</a><br>
      </li>
    </ul>
    <p>Also, another topic that I would like to bring to SecDispatch
      (mostly for awareness, I guess, at this stage) is how to improve
      OCSP responses (i.e., by providing range-based responses and full
      chain status). Although we have not published an I-D yet (but I
      hope to have a document uploaded soon), there has been some
      interest on the topic in both LAMPS and PKIX, therefore I was
      wondering if we could bring it to SecDispatch to get even more
      feedback and next-steps directions.<br>
    </p>
    <p>Here's some reference to the discussion we started in PKIX and
      LAMPS:</p>
    <ul>
      <li><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/pkix/eGE53uJIYKSzu7pObiUGWNXDH3M">https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/pkix/eGE53uJIYKSzu7pObiUGWNXDH3M</a>
        <br>
      </li>
      <li><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spasm/Ug_HtJz5FQvLbiXIdGXH---q7N8">https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spasm/Ug_HtJz5FQvLbiXIdGXH---q7N8</a>
        <br>
      </li>
    </ul>
    <p>Do you think we can get few minutes to bring the topic to
      SecDispatch (i.e., let's call it OCSPv2 for now) ?</p>
    <p>Please let us know,</p>
    <p>Cheers,<br>
      Max<br>
    </p>
    <p><br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/25/19 4:14 PM, Kathleen Moriarty
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAHbuEH6=YYTG5CLW-5PF7B2CMGrjSXgfcAcc6X-d_cOBtg7SyA@mail.gmail.com">
      <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      <div dir="ltr">Greetings!
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>If you have proposed work you'd like to present at
          SecDispatch, please make your request and provide a link to
          your draft to be discussed in advance.</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>Thank you!<br clear="all">
          <div><br>
          </div>
          -- <br>
          <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"
            data-smartmail="gmail_signature">
            <div dir="ltr"><br>
              <div>Best regards,</div>
              <div>Kathleen</div>
            </div>
          </div>
        </div>
      </div>
      <br>
      <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
      <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
Secdispatch mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Secdispatch@ietf.org">Secdispatch@ietf.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/secdispatch">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/secdispatch</a>
</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <div class="moz-signature">-- <br>
      <div style="color: black; margin-top: 10px;">
        Best Regards,
        <div style="margin-top: 5px; margin-left: 0px; ">
          Massimiliano Pala, Ph.D.<br>
          OpenCA Labs Director<br>
        </div>
        <img src="cid:part1.A06DD067.362BBA70@openca.org"
          style="vertical-align: 0px; margin-top: 10px; margin-left:
          0px;" alt="OpenCA Logo"><br>
      </div>
    </div>
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