From jari.arkko@lmf.ericsson.se Tue Jul 1 16:22:31 2003 Received: from albatross.tn.sw.ericsson.se (albatross-ext.wise.edt.ericsson.se [193.180.251.49]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA15252 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 16:22:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from esealnt613.al.sw.ericsson.se (alteon-nat8.sw.ericsson.se [153.88.254.125] (may be forged)) by albatross.tn.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/WIREfire-1.6b) with ESMTP id h61KIeK8016424; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 22:18:40 +0200 (MEST) Received: from fnatte.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.242.8]) by esealnt613.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id N8XH21MN; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 22:18:40 +0200 Received: from sw.ericsson.se (prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se [153.88.240.43]) by fnatte.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h61KIIug004884; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 22:18:19 +0200 (MEST) Received: from prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h61KEgme006186; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 22:14:42 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from ietfmdomo@localhost) by prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h61KEgUg006185; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 22:14:42 +0200 (MET DST) X-Authentication-Warning: prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se: ietfmdomo set sender to owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net using -f Received: from fridge.docomolabs-usa.com (key1.docomolabs-usa.com [216.98.102.225]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h61KEdme006180 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 22:14:40 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <021f01c3400c$a79e71f0$6b6015ac@dclkempt40> From: "James Kempf" To: Subject: Is DAD really needed for SEND? Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 09:12:53 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Supposing that SEND nodes use CGAs, is DAD really required? CGAs eliminate the possibility of DoS attack, and configuration conflicts would occur only if two nodes have the same public key. I suppose an implementation with a faulty random number generator could run into this problem, but it seems extremely unlikely, and quickly self correcting, since a customer would quickly report the problem. Calculations on the probability of collision for standard IID-based host prefixes show it is something like 10^-12, with CGA, it should be even less. If that's true, then the only case where a conflict could occur is with nonSEND nodes. Wouldn't it be sufficient for a SEND node to monitor the solicited node multicast address and respond to any attempt by a nonSEND node to claim the address? A nonSEND node could persist in a DOS style attack, but the SEND node could just change its public key for addresses. Comments? jak -------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this list, send email with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the body to . Archive: http://standards.ericsson.net/lists/ietf-send/maillist.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jari.arkko@lmf.ericsson.se Tue Jul 1 18:39:37 2003 Received: from penguin.al.sw.ericsson.se (penguin-ext.wise.edt.ericsson.se [193.180.251.47]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA19557 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 18:39:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from esealnt611.al.sw.ericsson.se (alteon-nat4.sw.ericsson.se [153.88.254.121]) by penguin.al.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/WIREfire-1.6b) with ESMTP id h5UHBdw2005952; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 19:11:39 +0200 (MEST) Received: from fnatte.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.242.8]) by esealnt611.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id NW48NY4F; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 19:12:28 +0200 Received: from sw.ericsson.se (prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se [153.88.240.43]) by fnatte.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5UHAJug002562; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 19:10:19 +0200 (MEST) Received: from prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h5UH5cme018297; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 19:05:38 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from ietfmdomo@localhost) by prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h5UH5bBc018296; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 19:05:37 +0200 (MET DST) X-Authentication-Warning: prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se: ietfmdomo set sender to owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net using -f Received: from thunker.thunk.org (thunk.org [140.239.227.29]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h5UH4Gme018237 for ; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 19:04:16 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from [66.92.109.27] (helo=think.thunk.org) authenticated as tytso by thunker.thunk.org with asmtp (tls_cipher TLSv1:DES-CBC3-SHA:168) (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 19X23o-0004tM-00; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 13:03:24 -0400 Received: from tytso authenticated as tytso by think.thunk.org with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 19X23n-0001IJ-00; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 13:03:23 -0400 Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 13:03:23 -0400 From: "Theodore Ts'o" To: Stephen Kent Cc: Pekka Nikander , Tero Kivinen , ipsec@lists.tislabs.com, James Kempf , SEND WG Subject: Re: Comments on draft-ietf-ipsec-rfc2402bis-03.txt based on SEND WG experiences Message-ID: <20030630170323.GC4051@think> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20030526181608.04a3df00@mira-sjc5-4.cisco.com> <3EEC2C43.9060302@nomadiclab.com> <16112.1673.849180.847121@ryijy.hel.fi.ssh.com> <3EF16ED1.3040908@nomadiclab.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i Sender: owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Precedence: bulk Steve, Part of the problem here is that we are trying to put AH and ESP to bed before we take up the RFC 2401 revisions. The SEND working group, on the suggestion of Steve Bellovin, has essentially proposed a new key management scheme, uses an IP extension header to "establish" keying material which can then be used by the AH and ESP. I agree that it hasn't been fully specified in sufficient detail yet, but the basic premise does seem sound. To the extent that much of the processing rules are in 2401, as you have pointed out, does it make sense to perhaps delete the few sentences that outright prohibit what the SEND working group is trying to do, and defer that discussion for 2401-bis discussion, just so we can send the AH and ESP documents to the IESG and get them off our hands? I agree that a protocol is not just syntax, but semantics too. However, much of the semantics is alreayd in architecture document, and we do have precedent for attempting to allow AH and ESP to be used by mutliple keying mechanisms beyond just IKE. (i.e., SKIP, Multicast Keying, etc.) - Ted -------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this list, send email with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the body to . Archive: http://standards.ericsson.net/lists/ietf-send/maillist.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jari.arkko@lmf.ericsson.se Tue Jul 1 20:14:49 2003 Received: from penguin.al.sw.ericsson.se (penguin-ext.wise.edt.ericsson.se [193.180.251.47]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA22088 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 20:14:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from esealnt613.al.sw.ericsson.se (alteon-nat8.sw.ericsson.se [153.88.254.125]) by penguin.al.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/WIREfire-1.6b) with ESMTP id h620BZw2025884; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 02:11:35 +0200 (MEST) Received: from fnatte.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.242.8]) by esealnt613.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id N8XHJTFX; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 02:11:34 +0200 Received: from sw.ericsson.se (prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se [153.88.240.43]) by fnatte.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h620BVug011830; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 02:11:31 +0200 (MEST) Received: from prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h6208Dme008312; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 02:08:13 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from ietfmdomo@localhost) by prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h6208DRq008311; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 02:08:13 +0200 (MET DST) X-Authentication-Warning: prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se: ietfmdomo set sender to owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net using -f Received: from ALPHA8.ITS.MONASH.EDU.AU (alpha8.its.monash.edu.au [130.194.1.8]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h6208Bme008304 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 02:08:12 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from broink.its.monash.edu.au ([130.194.1.70]) by vaxh.its.monash.edu.au (PMDF V5.2-31 #39306) with ESMTP id <01KXS26XN2H69C5JLY@vaxh.its.monash.edu.au> for ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 09:57:16 +1000 Received: from broink.its.monash.edu.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with ESMTP id D16B538009; Wed, 02 Jul 2003 09:57:15 +1000 (EST) Received: from eng.monash.edu.au (knuth.eng.monash.edu.au [130.194.252.110]) by broink.its.monash.edu.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9A6138008; Wed, 02 Jul 2003 09:57:15 +1000 (EST) Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 09:57:15 +1000 From: Greg Daley Subject: Re: Is DAD really needed for SEND? To: James Kempf Cc: ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Reply-to: greg.daley@eng.monash.edu.au Message-id: <3F021FDB.3070904@eng.monash.edu.au> Organization: Monash University MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.0.0) Gecko/20020529 X-Accept-Language: en, en-us References: <021f01c3400c$a79e71f0$6b6015ac@dclkempt40> Sender: owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hi James, I understand your question but will be interested in keeping DAD until IPv6 reviews RFC-2462. James Kempf wrote: > Supposing that SEND nodes use CGAs, is DAD really required? > > CGAs eliminate the possibility of DoS attack, and configuration conflicts > would occur only if two nodes have the same public key. I suppose an > implementation with a faulty random number generator could run into this > problem, but it seems extremely unlikely, and quickly self correcting, since > a customer would quickly report the problem. Calculations on the probability > of collision for standard IID-based host prefixes show it is something like > 10^-12, with CGA, it should be even less. > > If that's true, then the only case where a conflict could occur is with > nonSEND nodes. Wouldn't it be sufficient for a SEND node to monitor the > solicited node multicast address and respond to any attempt by a nonSEND > node to claim the address? A nonSEND node could persist in a DOS style > attack, but the SEND node could just change its public key for addresses. With CGA the chance of collisions is small unless there are implementation issues in the choice of modifier or public key (which may not be reported quickly unless diagnostic tools like DAD are used). With the non-SEND nodes, I think that we have to assume that DAD defenses against CGA addresses from non-CGA nodes are attempted DoS attacks (and should be logged as such, without acting on them). The NS/NA security mechanisms on SEND nodes should be useful when proving a right to own an address. I think that we have to remember that DAD is not just to avoid collisions, but also to report them. Greg -------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this list, send email with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the body to . Archive: http://standards.ericsson.net/lists/ietf-send/maillist.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jari.arkko@lmf.ericsson.se Tue Jul 1 21:47:14 2003 Received: from penguin.al.sw.ericsson.se (penguin-ext.wise.edt.ericsson.se [193.180.251.47]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA24303 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 21:47:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from esealnt612.al.sw.ericsson.se (alteon-nat1.sw.ericsson.se [153.88.254.118]) by penguin.al.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/WIREfire-1.6b) with ESMTP id h621iBw2002606; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 03:44:11 +0200 (MEST) Received: from fnatte.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.242.8]) by esealnt612.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id NW44P2K9; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 03:44:11 +0200 Received: from sw.ericsson.se (prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se [153.88.240.43]) by fnatte.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h621iAug013878; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 03:44:10 +0200 (MEST) Received: from prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h621evme019952; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 03:40:57 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from ietfmdomo@localhost) by prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h621eu8f019951; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 03:40:56 +0200 (MET DST) X-Authentication-Warning: prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se: ietfmdomo set sender to owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net using -f Received: from fridge.docomolabs-usa.com (key1.docomolabs-usa.com [216.98.102.225]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h621esme019947 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 03:40:55 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 18:42:15 -0700 Subject: Re: Is DAD really needed for SEND? From: Alper Yegin To: James Kempf , Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <021f01c3400c$a79e71f0$6b6015ac@dclkempt40> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Supposing that SEND nodes use CGAs, is DAD really required? > > CGAs eliminate the possibility of DoS attack, and configuration conflicts > would occur only if two nodes have the same public key. I suppose an > implementation with a faulty random number generator could run into this > problem, but it seems extremely unlikely, and quickly self correcting, since > a customer would quickly report the problem. Calculations on the probability > of collision for standard IID-based host prefixes show it is something like > 10^-12, with CGA, it should be even less. How does using CGA reduces the chances of collision? Alper > > If that's true, then the only case where a conflict could occur is with > nonSEND nodes. Wouldn't it be sufficient for a SEND node to monitor the > solicited node multicast address and respond to any attempt by a nonSEND > node to claim the address? A nonSEND node could persist in a DOS style > attack, but the SEND node could just change its public key for addresses. > > Comments? > > jak > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from this list, send email with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the > body to . > Archive: http://standards.ericsson.net/lists/ietf-send/maillist.html > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this list, send email with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the body to . Archive: http://standards.ericsson.net/lists/ietf-send/maillist.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jari.arkko@lmf.ericsson.se Tue Jul 1 23:48:13 2003 Received: from penguin.al.sw.ericsson.se (penguin-ext.wise.edt.ericsson.se [193.180.251.47]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA26785 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 23:48:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from esealnt612.al.sw.ericsson.se (alteon-nat1.sw.ericsson.se [153.88.254.118]) by penguin.al.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/WIREfire-1.6b) with ESMTP id h623itw2011854; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 05:44:55 +0200 (MEST) Received: from fnatte.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.242.8]) by esealnt612.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id NW44PTAQ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 05:44:54 +0200 Received: from sw.ericsson.se (prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se [153.88.240.43]) by fnatte.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h623irug016671; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 05:44:53 +0200 (MEST) Received: from prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h623fYme015391; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 05:41:34 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from ietfmdomo@localhost) by prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h623fYLK015390; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 05:41:34 +0200 (MET DST) X-Authentication-Warning: prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se: ietfmdomo set sender to owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net using -f Received: from leapster.dwerryhouse.com.au (www.teledurecords.com [203.30.75.104]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h623fWme015386 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 05:41:33 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by leapster.dwerryhouse.com.au (Postfix, from userid 501) id A253C146BF; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 13:41:28 +1000 (EST) Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 13:41:28 +1000 From: "Nick 'Sharkey' Moore" To: Alper Yegin Cc: James Kempf , ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Subject: Re: Is DAD really needed for SEND? Message-ID: <20030702034128.GA24052@zoic.org> References: <021f01c3400c$a79e71f0$6b6015ac@dclkempt40> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.28i X-URL: http://zoic.org/sharkey/ Sender: owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Precedence: bulk On 2003-07-01, Alper Yegin wrote: > > > > Calculations on the probability > > of collision for standard IID-based host prefixes show it is something like > > 10^-12, with CGA, it should be even less. > > How does using CGA reduces the chances of collision? Well, I don't think it'd reduce it any further than any other method which produces a strongly random suffix, but I could be wrong ... Mainly, it'd get rid of the chance of accidental misconfiguration, or broken PRNGs. -----Nick -------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this list, send email with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the body to . Archive: http://standards.ericsson.net/lists/ietf-send/maillist.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jari.arkko@lmf.ericsson.se Wed Jul 2 11:29:55 2003 Received: from albatross.tn.sw.ericsson.se (albatross-ext.wise.edt.ericsson.se [193.180.251.49]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA27003 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 11:29:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from esealnt613.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.125]) by albatross.tn.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/WIREfire-1.6b) with ESMTP id h62FRXIi008845; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 17:27:34 +0200 (MEST) Received: from fnatte.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.242.8]) by esealnt613.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id N8XHRKJ5; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 17:27:33 +0200 Received: from sw.ericsson.se (prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se [153.88.240.43]) by fnatte.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h62FRKug007412; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 17:27:20 +0200 (MEST) Received: from prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h62FNnme016260; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 17:23:49 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from ietfmdomo@localhost) by prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h62FNntY016259; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 17:23:49 +0200 (MET DST) X-Authentication-Warning: prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se: ietfmdomo set sender to owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net using -f Received: from fridge.docomolabs-usa.com (key1.docomolabs-usa.com [216.98.102.225]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h62FNlme016252 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 17:23:48 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <003601c340ad$3035d4e0$636015ac@dclkempt40> From: "James Kempf" To: "Alper Yegin" , References: Subject: Re: Is DAD really needed for SEND? Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 08:18:27 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Supposing that SEND nodes use CGAs, is DAD really required? > > > > CGAs eliminate the possibility of DoS attack, and configuration conflicts > > would occur only if two nodes have the same public key. I suppose an > > implementation with a faulty random number generator could run into this > > problem, but it seems extremely unlikely, and quickly self correcting, since > > a customer would quickly report the problem. Calculations on the probability > > of collision for standard IID-based host prefixes show it is something like > > 10^-12, with CGA, it should be even less. > > How does using CGA reduces the chances of collision? > Because the probability of two nodes getting the same randomely generated key is low. I haven't worked through the numbers to check whether it is lower than for IID-based prefixes. That would depend on the properties of the random number generator, I assume. jak -------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this list, send email with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the body to . Archive: http://standards.ericsson.net/lists/ietf-send/maillist.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jari.arkko@lmf.ericsson.se Wed Jul 2 11:34:17 2003 Received: from penguin.al.sw.ericsson.se (penguin-ext.wise.edt.ericsson.se [193.180.251.47]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA27086 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 11:34:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from esealnt613.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.125]) by penguin.al.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/WIREfire-1.6b) with ESMTP id h62FWFGJ029960; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 17:32:15 +0200 (MEST) Received: from tjatte.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.242.9]) by esealnt613.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id N8XHRL39; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 17:32:15 +0200 Received: from sw.ericsson.se (prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se [153.88.240.43]) by tjatte.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h62FWEQm024275; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 17:32:14 +0200 (MEST) Received: from prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h62FTOme016533; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 17:29:24 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from ietfmdomo@localhost) by prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h62FTOEd016529; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 17:29:24 +0200 (MET DST) X-Authentication-Warning: prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se: ietfmdomo set sender to owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net using -f Received: from fridge.docomolabs-usa.com (key1.docomolabs-usa.com [216.98.102.225]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h62FTMme016519 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 17:29:22 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <005701c340ad$f7e00740$636015ac@dclkempt40> From: "James Kempf" To: "Nick 'Sharkey' Moore" , "Alper Yegin" Cc: References: <021f01c3400c$a79e71f0$6b6015ac@dclkempt40> <20030702034128.GA24052@zoic.org> Subject: Re: Is DAD really needed for SEND? Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 08:24:02 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Mainly, it'd get rid of the chance of accidental misconfiguration, > or broken PRNGs. > Right, that's the idea. If the probability of getting a collision for CGAs is less than or equal to what it is for IID-based identifiers, and you remove any probability of DoS attack or misconfiguration, then one must question the point of going through a heavy-weight, time consuming procedure to verify an address when the probability that this process will fail due to BER on the link is higher than the probability of an address collision. It seems like overengineering to require DAD in that case. jak -------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this list, send email with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the body to . Archive: http://standards.ericsson.net/lists/ietf-send/maillist.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jari.arkko@lmf.ericsson.se Wed Jul 2 11:56:12 2003 Received: from penguin.al.sw.ericsson.se (penguin-ext.wise.edt.ericsson.se [193.180.251.47]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA28338 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 11:56:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from esealnt611.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.121]) by penguin.al.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/WIREfire-1.6b) with ESMTP id h62FqUGJ003377; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 17:52:30 +0200 (MEST) Received: from tjatte.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.242.9]) by esealnt611.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id NW49C4H7; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 17:54:41 +0200 Received: from sw.ericsson.se (prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se [153.88.240.43]) by tjatte.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h62FqTQm024589; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 17:52:29 +0200 (MEST) Received: from prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h62FnJme019685; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 17:49:19 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from ietfmdomo@localhost) by prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h62FnIsH019683; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 17:49:18 +0200 (MET DST) X-Authentication-Warning: prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se: ietfmdomo set sender to owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net using -f Received: from leapster.dwerryhouse.com.au (www.teledurecords.com [203.30.75.104]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h62FnGme019672 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 17:49:17 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by leapster.dwerryhouse.com.au (Postfix, from userid 501) id 3DABF146BF; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 01:49:13 +1000 (EST) Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 01:49:13 +1000 From: "Nick 'Sharkey' Moore" To: James Kempf Cc: Alper Yegin , ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Subject: Re: Is DAD really needed for SEND? Message-ID: <20030702154913.GA27005@zoic.org> References: <021f01c3400c$a79e71f0$6b6015ac@dclkempt40> <20030702034128.GA24052@zoic.org> <005701c340ad$f7e00740$636015ac@dclkempt40> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <005701c340ad$f7e00740$636015ac@dclkempt40> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.28i X-URL: http://zoic.org/sharkey/ Sender: owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Precedence: bulk G'day Jak and co ... On 2003-07-02, James Kempf wrote: > > [...] the probability that this process will fail due to BER on the > link is higher than the probability of an address collision. Ummm. P(collision) is still > P(collision) * P(packet-loss)^2, the process can't really 'fail' except in the case of a collision. I know what you mean though. > It seems like overengineering to require DAD in that case. I think I agree with you. This may come as a surprise given all the fuss over Optimistic DAD, but that's really a form of skipping-DAD-in-the-hopes-of-good-RNG-but-recovering-in-case-it-isn't. My question would be: what is the correct behaviour of a SEND-DAD node in the case of a collision? Alert the user? Cease using that address but continue defending it? Cease defending it but continue using it? Burst into flames? Also: are there any SEND configuration screwups which would make this collision more likely than 1:2^62, assuming that the odds of human fallibility are _way_ higher than this? (eg: accidentally using the same key twice, etc, like I say I know relatively little about SEND and CGA) -----Nick -------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this list, send email with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the body to . Archive: http://standards.ericsson.net/lists/ietf-send/maillist.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jari.arkko@lmf.ericsson.se Wed Jul 2 17:37:34 2003 Received: from albatross.tn.sw.ericsson.se (albatross-ext.wise.edt.ericsson.se [193.180.251.49]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA20541 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 17:37:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from esealnt612.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.118]) by albatross.tn.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/WIREfire-1.6b) with ESMTP id h62LZJIi024267; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 23:35:19 +0200 (MEST) Received: from tjatte.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.242.9]) by esealnt612.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id NW444KTS; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 23:35:19 +0200 Received: from sw.ericsson.se (prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se [153.88.240.43]) by tjatte.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h62LZIQm028222; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 23:35:18 +0200 (MEST) Received: from prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h62LVnme003292; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 23:31:50 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from ietfmdomo@localhost) by prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h62LVn6j003291; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 23:31:49 +0200 (MET DST) X-Authentication-Warning: prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se: ietfmdomo set sender to owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net using -f Received: from penguin.al.sw.ericsson.se (penguin.al.sw.ericsson.se [193.180.251.47]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h62LVmme003287 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 23:31:48 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from esealnt612.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.118]) by penguin.al.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/WIREfire-1.6b) with ESMTP id h62LVmGJ006603 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 23:31:48 +0200 (MEST) Received: from hendrix.lmf.ericsson.se ([131.160.11.8]) by esealnt612.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id NW444KH5; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 23:31:48 +0200 Received: from trinity.ericsson.fi (trinity [131.160.206.12]) by hendrix.lmf.ericsson.se (8.12.8/8.12.8/lmf-2.1-jcs) with ESMTP id h62LVmSZ008294 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 00:31:49 +0300 (EET DST) Received: from p2.piuha.net (p2.piuha.net [131.160.192.2]) by trinity.ericsson.fi (Postfix) with ESMTP id D36B05F691 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 00:32:02 +0300 (EEST) Received: from kolumbus.fi (p4.piuha.net [131.160.192.4]) by p2.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A28F76A905; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 00:31:36 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <3F034EAA.6060101@kolumbus.fi> Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 00:29:14 +0300 From: Jari Arkko User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20030225 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Nick 'Sharkey' Moore" Cc: James Kempf , ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Subject: Re: Is DAD really needed for SEND? References: <021f01c3400c$a79e71f0$6b6015ac@dclkempt40> <20030702034128.GA24052@zoic.org> <005701c340ad$f7e00740$636015ac@dclkempt40> <20030702154913.GA27005@zoic.org> In-Reply-To: <20030702154913.GA27005@zoic.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Nick 'Sharkey' Moore wrote: > Also: are there any SEND configuration screwups which would make > this collision more likely than 1:2^62, assuming that the odds > of human fallibility are _way_ higher than this? > (eg: accidentally using the same key twice, etc, like I say I > know relatively little about SEND and CGA) I would say there are such possibilities. Good implementations might perhaps prevent this (e.g. by not accepting any user-given keys as input -- but the copied harddrive would still get you this failure mode). Also, I think the likelihood of a collision is roughly the same whether you generate a direct random number or whether you generate some random bits, turn them into an RSA key, and then hash the result. Anyway, I think a SEND node, upon detecting a collision, should stop using the address, but not necessarily fail the interface or burst into flames ;-) One practical approach for us to deal with the DAD issue in SEND is that we take the "secure ND" and "optimize DAD" problems separately. That is, SEND takes IPv6 as-is, now. Then an extension is built later to provide security for optimistic DAD. --Jari -------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this list, send email with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the body to . Archive: http://standards.ericsson.net/lists/ietf-send/maillist.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jari.arkko@lmf.ericsson.se Wed Jul 2 18:12:22 2003 Received: from penguin.al.sw.ericsson.se (penguin-ext.wise.edt.ericsson.se [193.180.251.47]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA24194 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 18:12:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from esealnt612.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.118]) by penguin.al.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/WIREfire-1.6b) with ESMTP id h62M9OGJ010069; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 00:09:24 +0200 (MEST) Received: from fnatte.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.242.8]) by esealnt612.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id NW444NJ7; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 00:09:24 +0200 Received: from sw.ericsson.se (prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se [153.88.240.43]) by fnatte.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h62M9Bug018693; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 00:09:12 +0200 (MEST) Received: from prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h62M5vme007147; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 00:05:57 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from ietfmdomo@localhost) by prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h62M5vml007146; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 00:05:57 +0200 (MET DST) X-Authentication-Warning: prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se: ietfmdomo set sender to owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net using -f Received: from fridge.docomolabs-usa.com (key1.docomolabs-usa.com [216.98.102.225]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h62M5tme007141 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 00:05:56 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <030501c340e5$5d67ad70$636015ac@dclkempt40> From: "James Kempf" To: "Nick 'Sharkey' Moore" Cc: "Alper Yegin" , References: <021f01c3400c$a79e71f0$6b6015ac@dclkempt40> <20030702034128.GA24052@zoic.org> <005701c340ad$f7e00740$636015ac@dclkempt40> <20030702154913.GA27005@zoic.org> Subject: Re: Is DAD really needed for SEND? Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 15:00:35 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > My question would be: what is the correct behaviour of a SEND-DAD > node in the case of a collision? Alert the user? Cease using > that address but continue defending it? Cease defending it > but continue using it? Burst into flames? > The draft says a SEND node should try three times before giving up. So I would say that it should generate another key and try again. If it fails three times, then the node is probably under attack and should report that to somebody who can figure out if that's so. jak -------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this list, send email with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the body to . Archive: http://standards.ericsson.net/lists/ietf-send/maillist.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jari.arkko@lmf.ericsson.se Wed Jul 2 18:53:11 2003 Received: from albatross.tn.sw.ericsson.se (albatross-ext.wise.edt.ericsson.se [193.180.251.49]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA28820 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 18:53:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from esealnt611.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.121]) by albatross.tn.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/WIREfire-1.6b) with ESMTP id h62MoRIi002308; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 00:50:27 +0200 (MEST) Received: from fnatte.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.242.8]) by esealnt611.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id NW49FBYK; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 00:52:39 +0200 Received: from sw.ericsson.se (prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se [153.88.240.43]) by fnatte.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h62MoOug020100; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 00:50:24 +0200 (MEST) Received: from prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h62MlHme012422; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 00:47:17 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from ietfmdomo@localhost) by prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h62MlHmN012421; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 00:47:17 +0200 (MET DST) X-Authentication-Warning: prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se: ietfmdomo set sender to owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net using -f Received: from fridge.docomolabs-usa.com (key1.docomolabs-usa.com [216.98.102.225]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h62MlFme012417 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 00:47:16 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 15:48:35 -0700 Subject: Re: Is DAD really needed for SEND? From: Alper Yegin To: James Kempf , Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <003601c340ad$3035d4e0$636015ac@dclkempt40> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >> How does using CGA reduces the chances of collision? >> > > Because the probability of two nodes getting the same randomely generated > key is low. I haven't worked through the numbers to check whether it is > lower than for IID-based prefixes. That would depend on the properties of > the random number generator, I assume. As long as both schemes produce 62bits starting from a random number, I cannot see how CGA-based address is less likely to collide (unless one is using a bad RNG with non-CGA, which would make this an apples-to-bad_apples comparison). Your earlier point was that collisions are less likely with SEND, hence we can turn off DAD. I think your basic assumption is not correct. Regarding turning off DAD, I see people comparing the address collision possibility to chances of a lightning striking the host, or packet loss in wireless links, etc. Really, what is the lowest probability below which we should be willing to take the risk for simplicity and performance? Anyways, I think this issue is not for this WG to tackle...... Alper -------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this list, send email with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the body to . Archive: http://standards.ericsson.net/lists/ietf-send/maillist.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jari.arkko@lmf.ericsson.se Wed Jul 2 21:58:09 2003 Received: from penguin.al.sw.ericsson.se (penguin-ext.wise.edt.ericsson.se [193.180.251.47]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA10340 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 21:58:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from esealnt613.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.125]) by penguin.al.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/WIREfire-1.6b) with ESMTP id h631tKGJ026122; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 03:55:21 +0200 (MEST) Received: from tjatte.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.242.9]) by esealnt613.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id N8XHVA7Q; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 03:55:20 +0200 Received: from sw.ericsson.se (prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se [153.88.240.43]) by tjatte.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h631tKQm000956; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 03:55:20 +0200 (MEST) Received: from prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h631q6me007026; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 03:52:06 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from ietfmdomo@localhost) by prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h631q6jE007025; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 03:52:06 +0200 (MET DST) X-Authentication-Warning: prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se: ietfmdomo set sender to owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net using -f Received: from leapster.dwerryhouse.com.au (www.teledurecords.com [203.30.75.104]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h631q0me007012 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 03:52:00 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by leapster.dwerryhouse.com.au (Postfix, from userid 501) id 01644146BA; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 11:51:53 +1000 (EST) Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 11:51:53 +1000 From: "Nick 'Sharkey' Moore" To: Jari Arkko Cc: James Kempf , ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Subject: Re: Is DAD really needed for SEND? Message-ID: <20030703015153.GA30279@zoic.org> References: <021f01c3400c$a79e71f0$6b6015ac@dclkempt40> <20030702034128.GA24052@zoic.org> <005701c340ad$f7e00740$636015ac@dclkempt40> <20030702154913.GA27005@zoic.org> <3F034EAA.6060101@kolumbus.fi> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3F034EAA.6060101@kolumbus.fi> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.28i X-URL: http://zoic.org/sharkey/ Sender: owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Precedence: bulk On 2003-07-03, Jari Arkko wrote: > Nick 'Sharkey' Moore wrote: > > >Also: are there any SEND configuration screwups which would make > >this collision more likely than 1:2^62, assuming that the odds > >of human fallibility are _way_ higher than this? > >(eg: accidentally using the same key twice, etc, like I say I > >know relatively little about SEND and CGA) > > I would say there are such possibilities. Good implementations > might perhaps prevent this (e.g. by not accepting any user-given > keys as input -- but the copied harddrive would still get you > this failure mode). Well, that's going to make it difficult to estimate the actual collision probability then ... > Also, I think the likelihood of a collision is roughly the > same whether you generate a direct random number or whether > you generate some random bits, turn them into an RSA key, and > then hash the result. Yes, I'd believe so. For a strongly random generator, eg: a hardware RNG or an entropy-pool PRNG, the results should be equivalently well-distributed. > Anyway, I think a SEND node, upon detecting a collision, should > stop using the address, but not necessarily fail the interface > or burst into flames ;-) It's tricky to say, I mean if you're willing to stop does that mean you should have an equivalent of 'tentativeness'? Or just use the address, and if you receive a 'defensive' NA at any time then regard the address as suspect and move as soon as practical. > One practical approach for us to deal with the DAD issue in > SEND is that we take the "secure ND" and "optimize DAD" problems > separately. That is, SEND takes IPv6 as-is, now. Then an > extension is built later to provide security for optimistic > DAD. Yeah, the Optimistic DAD draft is still looking for a home, but it probably isn't SEND! I'm happy to include SEND considerations in the draft though, if there need to be any. At the moment the Optimistic DAD draft states "[...] a suffix MUST be chosen based on a strongly random algorithm [...]", and if I updated that to read "[...] a suffix MUST be chosen based on a strongly random algorithm or well-distributed hash function [...]" it'd fit right in with SEND/CGA otherwise unmodified, I think. -----Nick -------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this list, send email with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the body to . Archive: http://standards.ericsson.net/lists/ietf-send/maillist.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jari.arkko@lmf.ericsson.se Thu Jul 3 00:55:11 2003 Received: from albatross.tn.sw.ericsson.se (albatross-ext.wise.edt.ericsson.se [193.180.251.49]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA15288 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 00:55:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from esealnt613.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.125]) by albatross.tn.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/WIREfire-1.6b) with ESMTP id h634pZIi005745; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 06:51:35 +0200 (MEST) Received: from fnatte.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.242.8]) by esealnt613.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id N8XHV0TM; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 06:51:35 +0200 Received: from sw.ericsson.se (prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se [153.88.240.43]) by fnatte.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h634pTug028651; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 06:51:30 +0200 (MEST) Received: from prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h634mUme010875; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 06:48:30 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from ietfmdomo@localhost) by prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h634mT9N010874; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 06:48:29 +0200 (MET DST) X-Authentication-Warning: prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se: ietfmdomo set sender to owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net using -f Received: from rrmail01.lab.flarion.com (mail.flarion.com [63.103.94.23]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h634mSme010869 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 06:48:28 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by rrmail01.lab.flarion.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) id <3D5F32H5>; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 00:48:24 -0400 Message-ID: <748C6D0A58C0F94CA63C198B6674697A0141BB98@ftmail.lab.flarion.com> From: Soliman Hesham To: "'Jari Arkko'" , "Nick 'Sharkey' Moore" Cc: James Kempf , ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Subject: RE: Is DAD really needed for SEND? Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 00:48:22 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Precedence: bulk > I would say there are such possibilities. Good implementations > might perhaps prevent this (e.g. by not accepting any user-given > keys as input -- but the copied harddrive would still get you > this failure mode). > > Also, I think the likelihood of a collision is roughly the > same whether you generate a direct random number or whether > you generate some random bits, turn them into an RSA key, and > then hash the result. > > Anyway, I think a SEND node, upon detecting a collision, should > stop using the address, but not necessarily fail the interface > or burst into flames ;-) > > One practical approach for us to deal with the DAD issue in > SEND is that we take the "secure ND" and "optimize DAD" problems > separately. That is, SEND takes IPv6 as-is, now. Then an > extension is built later to provide security for optimistic > DAD. => completely agree. Hesham -------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this list, send email with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the body to . Archive: http://standards.ericsson.net/lists/ietf-send/maillist.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jari.arkko@lmf.ericsson.se Thu Jul 3 03:25:51 2003 Received: from penguin.al.sw.ericsson.se (penguin-ext.wise.edt.ericsson.se [193.180.251.47]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA00999 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 03:25:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from esealnt612.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.118]) by penguin.al.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/WIREfire-1.6b) with ESMTP id h637NWGJ007422; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 09:23:32 +0200 (MEST) Received: from fnatte.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.242.8]) by esealnt612.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id NW44WB1C; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 09:23:31 +0200 Received: from sw.ericsson.se (prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se [153.88.240.43]) by fnatte.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h637NUug002769; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 09:23:30 +0200 (MEST) Received: from prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h637KEme002150; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 09:20:15 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from ietfmdomo@localhost) by prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h637KEEW002146; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 09:20:14 +0200 (MET DST) X-Authentication-Warning: prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se: ietfmdomo set sender to owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net using -f Received: from albatross.tn.sw.ericsson.se (albatross.tn.sw.ericsson.se [193.180.251.49]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h637KCme002138 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 09:20:12 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from esealnt611.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.121]) by albatross.tn.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/WIREfire-1.6b) with ESMTP id h637KCIi008003 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 09:20:12 +0200 (MEST) Received: from hendrix.lmf.ericsson.se ([131.160.11.8]) by esealnt611.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id NW492BK9; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 09:22:26 +0200 Received: from trinity.ericsson.fi (trinity [131.160.206.12]) by hendrix.lmf.ericsson.se (8.12.8/8.12.8/lmf-2.1-jcs) with ESMTP id h637KCSZ005270 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 10:20:12 +0300 (EET DST) Received: from p2.piuha.net (p2.piuha.net [131.160.192.2]) by trinity.ericsson.fi (Postfix) with ESMTP id 652C55F691 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 10:20:27 +0300 (EEST) Received: from kolumbus.fi (p4.piuha.net [131.160.192.4]) by p2.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 597756A905; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 10:20:06 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <3F03D897.4000807@kolumbus.fi> Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 10:17:43 +0300 From: Jari Arkko User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20030225 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Nick 'Sharkey' Moore" Cc: ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Subject: Re: Is DAD really needed for SEND? References: <021f01c3400c$a79e71f0$6b6015ac@dclkempt40> <20030702034128.GA24052@zoic.org> <005701c340ad$f7e00740$636015ac@dclkempt40> <20030702154913.GA27005@zoic.org> <3F034EAA.6060101@kolumbus.fi> <20030703015153.GA30279@zoic.org> In-Reply-To: <20030703015153.GA30279@zoic.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Nick 'Sharkey' Moore wrote: > Yeah, the Optimistic DAD draft is still looking for a home, I hope it finds a home soon, otherwise it might lose its good spirit and turn into a Pessimistic DAD, maybe even become a Homeless DAD ;-( > but it probably isn't SEND! I'm happy to include SEND considerations > in the draft though, if there need to be any. At the moment > the Optimistic DAD draft states "[...] a suffix MUST be chosen > based on a strongly random algorithm [...]", and if I updated > that to read "[...] a suffix MUST be chosen based on a strongly > random algorithm or well-distributed hash function [...]" it'd > fit right in with SEND/CGA otherwise unmodified, I think. That sounds very good. Since Optimistic DAD is being worked on while we already know about SEND, it makes sense to include SEND compatibility or considerations in the draft. Hopefully we can make the final design decisions for SEND in Vienna, so SEND can become stable. You may need to add also some processing rules, I'm not quite sure exactly how much Optimistic DAD changes ND. Perhaps the collision action details or something like that is different wrt to base ND or base SEND. --Jari -------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this list, send email with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the body to . Archive: http://standards.ericsson.net/lists/ietf-send/maillist.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jari.arkko@lmf.ericsson.se Sun Jul 6 02:55:35 2003 Received: from albatross.tn.sw.ericsson.se (albatross-ext.wise.edt.ericsson.se [193.180.251.49]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA08018 for ; Sun, 6 Jul 2003 02:55:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from esealnt613.al.sw.ericsson.se (alteon-nat8.sw.ericsson.se [153.88.254.125]) by albatross.tn.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/WIREfire-1.6b) with ESMTP id h5UHbbG5010175; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 19:37:37 +0200 (MEST) Received: from tjatte.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.242.9]) by esealnt613.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id N8XG6XNC; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 19:36:26 +0200 Received: from sw.ericsson.se (prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se [153.88.240.43]) by tjatte.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5UHaFQm006801; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 19:36:15 +0200 (MEST) Received: from prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h5UHVeme021744; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 19:31:40 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from ietfmdomo@localhost) by prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h5UHVeG6021743; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 19:31:40 +0200 (MET DST) X-Authentication-Warning: prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se: ietfmdomo set sender to owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net using -f Received: from aragorn.bbn.com (aragorn.bbn.com [128.33.0.62]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h5UHUCme020789 for ; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 19:30:18 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from [128.89.88.34] (comsec.bbn.com [128.89.88.34]) by aragorn.bbn.com (8.12.7/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h5UHSMD9025785; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 13:28:22 -0400 (EDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: kent@po2.bbn.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20030630170323.GC4051@think> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20030526181608.04a3df00@mira-sjc5-4.cisco.com> <3EEC2C43.9060302@nomadiclab.com> <16112.1673.849180.847121@ryijy.hel.fi.ssh.com> <3EF16ED1.3040908@nomadiclab.com> <20030630170323.GC4051@think> Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 13:21:07 -0400 To: "Theodore Ts'o" From: Stephen Kent Subject: Re: Comments on draft-ietf-ipsec-rfc2402bis-03.txt based on SEND WG experiences Cc: Pekka Nikander , Tero Kivinen , ipsec@lists.tislabs.com, James Kempf , SEND WG Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.28 (www . roaringpenguin . com / mimedefang) Sender: owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Precedence: bulk At 1:03 PM -0400 6/30/03, Theodore Ts'o wrote: >Steve, > >Part of the problem here is that we are trying to put AH and ESP to >bed before we take up the RFC 2401 revisions. The SEND working group, >on the suggestion of Steve Bellovin, has essentially proposed a new >key management scheme, uses an IP extension header to "establish" >keying material which can then be used by the AH and ESP. > >I agree that it hasn't been fully specified in sufficient detail yet, >but the basic premise does seem sound. To the extent that much of the >processing rules are in 2401, as you have pointed out, does it make >sense to perhaps delete the few sentences that outright prohibit what >the SEND working group is trying to do, and defer that discussion for >2401-bis discussion, just so we can send the AH and ESP documents to >the IESG and get them off our hands? I agree that a protocol is not >just syntax, but semantics too. However, much of the semantics is >alreayd in architecture document, and we do have precedent for >attempting to allow AH and ESP to be used by mutliple keying >mechanisms beyond just IKE. (i.e., SKIP, Multicast Keying, etc.) > > - Ted Ted, We killed SKIP a long time ago, and I think that was the right decision :-) The reserved SPI feature was a holdover from that time, and maybe it too should go, to avoid giving folks the wrong impression. I am not yet comfortable with making these changes to accommodate SEND, given the current status of the IPsec documents, the maturity of the SEND work, etc. I suggest you ask Russ for his direction before we proceed. Steve -------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this list, send email with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the body to . Archive: http://standards.ericsson.net/lists/ietf-send/maillist.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jari.arkko@lmf.ericsson.se Sun Jul 6 19:34:00 2003 Received: from albatross.tn.sw.ericsson.se (albatross-ext.wise.edt.ericsson.se [193.180.251.49]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA25939 for ; Sun, 6 Jul 2003 19:33:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from esealnt611.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.121]) by albatross.tn.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/WIREfire-1.6b) with ESMTP id h66NTJIi013748; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 01:29:19 +0200 (MEST) Received: from tjatte.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.242.9]) by esealnt611.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id NW497TTP; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 01:31:43 +0200 Received: from sw.ericsson.se (prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se [153.88.240.43]) by tjatte.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h66NTIxa018054; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 01:29:18 +0200 (MEST) Received: from prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h66NPdme007423; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 01:25:39 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from ietfmdomo@localhost) by prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h66NPd1k007422; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 01:25:39 +0200 (MET DST) X-Authentication-Warning: prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se: ietfmdomo set sender to owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net using -f Received: from aol.com ([211.187.82.119]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with SMTP id h66NOXme007370 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 01:25:02 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <1de701c34413$3db0a500$a7450dad@dunkerz1eypl> Reply-To: dunkerz1eypl@aol.com From: dunkerz1eypl@aol.com To: "Webmaster" Subject: Laser Toner Cartridges. 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------=_NextPart_8F8_CBCA_AA32D399.090855E4-- -------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this list, send email with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the body to . Archive: http://standards.ericsson.net/lists/ietf-send/maillist.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jari.arkko@lmf.ericsson.se Wed Jul 9 06:52:53 2003 Received: from penguin.al.sw.ericsson.se (penguin-ext.wise.edt.ericsson.se [193.180.251.47]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA26987 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 06:52:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from esealnt611.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.121]) by penguin.al.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/WIREfire-1.6b) with ESMTP id h69Al8GJ026219; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 12:47:08 +0200 (MEST) Received: from tjatte.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.242.9]) by esealnt611.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id NW403PWP; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 12:49:30 +0200 Received: from sw.ericsson.se (prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se [153.88.240.43]) by tjatte.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69Akwxa020767; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 12:46:58 +0200 (MEST) Received: from prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h69AgCme021572; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 12:42:13 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from ietfmdomo@localhost) by prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h69AgCcq021571; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 12:42:12 +0200 (MET DST) X-Authentication-Warning: prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se: ietfmdomo set sender to owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net using -f Received: from penguin.al.sw.ericsson.se (penguin.al.sw.ericsson.se [193.180.251.47]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h69Aepme021480 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 12:40:51 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from esealnt612.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.118]) by penguin.al.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/WIREfire-1.6b) with ESMTP id h69AepGJ024595 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 12:40:51 +0200 (MEST) Received: from hendrix.lmf.ericsson.se ([131.160.11.8]) by esealnt612.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id NW4VW94H; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 12:40:51 +0200 Received: from trinity.ericsson.fi (trinity [131.160.206.12]) by hendrix.lmf.ericsson.se (8.12.8/8.12.8/lmf-2.1-jcs) with ESMTP id h69AepSZ011147 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 13:40:51 +0300 (EET DST) Received: from p2.piuha.net (p2.piuha.net [131.160.192.2]) by trinity.ericsson.fi (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10D8D5F691 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 13:41:07 +0300 (EEST) Received: from kolumbus.fi (p4.piuha.net [131.160.192.4]) by p2.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id ECE446A906; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 13:40:44 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <3F0BF098.30809@kolumbus.fi> Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 13:38:16 +0300 From: Jari Arkko User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20030225 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Pasi.Eronen@nokia.com Cc: ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net, valtteri.niemi@nokia.com, Pekka Nikander , James Kempf Subject: Re: SEND protocol document review References: <052E0C61B69C3741AFA5FE88ACC775A608BB31@esebe023.ntc.nokia.com> In-Reply-To: <052E0C61B69C3741AFA5FE88ACC775A608BB31@esebe023.ntc.nokia.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Pasi and Valtteri, Returning back to your review comments. Many thanks for your valuable comments! Discussion inline below: > Other comments follow: > > o Section 4: Good text, but perhaps would be even clearer if Router > Discovery would be mentioned before Address Autoconfiguration and Ok. > Redirect. Also, the list of destination address rules is perhaps in > the wrong place. Yes. The thing is, it is quite important information if one uses IPsec. However, I have proposed the use of ND options which would essentially make this list unnecessary. I'm hoping that would fix this issue... > Section 6 > --------- > > This section might be easier to read if it would be split to two > parts: one describing what sort of certificates are used, and a > second section specifying how the certificates are transported > over ICMPv6. Ok. > The certificate transport is relatively straight-forward, but the > description of certificate chains could benefit from some > clarifications and examples showing at least one valid certificate > chain. Also, if certificates are used for both RD and non-CGA ND, any Ok. > differences should be described (e.g., in the ND case, would a PKC > chain ending in an iPAddress subjectAltName be sufficient, or do we > also need the AC?) I don't know. Perhaps Pekka and James could say something about this. > Especially the selection of Attribute Authorities (valid AC issuers) > seems a bit strange. The "trusted root" refers to valid PKC issuers, > right? And then all CAs (PKC issuers) in the PKC path (from the trust > anchor to the router's PKC) are also considered AAs. Unfortunately, > RFC 3281 (section 4.5) explicitly forbids this! If this is done > anyway, it should be at least well explained and justified. Right. I think Pekka who wrote this part of the text is aware of this problem, and its being discussed. > Another aspect that requires clarification is the requirements placed > on the PKC chain. At the minimum, the spec should say what > requirements are placed on subjectName, subjectAltName, and > keyUsage. Preferably the spec should also give some recommendations > for interoperability (see draft-ietf-ipsec-pki-profile-02 for > example). Also, when specifying this, the SEND spec should probably > refer to the PKIX profile (RFC 3280) rather than X.509 itself. I agree. > Several other points related to this section: > > o Section 6.3 (editorial): In PKIX-speak, the correct > term would probably be "trust anchor", not "trusted root". Yes. > o Sections 6.3 and 6.6 (technical): Presumably, the "trusted root" > should contain the issuer of the first certificate in the chain? > But for X.509 certs, that's a Distinguished Name, not FQDN. So, > should the "trusted root" option contain a DER-encoded Issuer DN > instead of FQDN? > > Using AltSubjectName (correct spelling is subjectAltName, BTW) > seems to make it more difficult for the router to decide which > certificate to send, since its own certificate doesn't necessarily > have the CA's dNSName (though it may be included in issuerAltName > extension). Ah yes. Hmm... I guess we just wanted to stay away from DNs altogether. But maybe that is not possible. Pekka? > o Section 6.5.1: The definition of the Holder field is a bit vague, > and goes against the recommendations of RFC3281 (if this is > intentional, at least the reasons for doing so should be > documented). Our interpretation is that RFC3281, in this particular > scenario would strongly recommend using the baseCertificateID > syntax (instead of entityName or objectDigestInfo). > > Also, even if entityName or objectDigestInfo is used, RFC3281 > recommends using only one of them, and recommends using only one > entityName (not multiple), and says that if entityName is used, it > MUST match the PKC certificate. > > o Section 6.5.1: If objectDigestInfo is used with > digestedObjectType=publicKey, RFC3281 already specifies how > objectDigest field must be calculated (section 7.3). > > o Section 6.5.1: Normative reference to an expired Internet-Draft > (for the AuthorizedSubnetPrefix) probably isn't a good idea. Since > it seems that the pkix-x509-ipaddr-as-extn draft is dead, either > the relevant definitions should be copied here, or documented in a > new, separate internet draft. Agreed. I believe some off-list discussions were going around on this subject, with the PKIX folks. > Section 7 > --------- > > It seems that AH_RSA_Sig does not integrate very well with the > standard IPsec architecture, and it may well be that the alternative > recently discussed on SEND mailing list (drop IPsec, and integrate the > cryptographic parts to ND messages) could a be better choice. If we No argument from me ;-) > stick with AH, at least the following issues need to be addressed. > However, especially the replay protection issue (below) seems > to be rather difficult to fix in an elegent way. > > o Section 7.1.2 (technical/editorial): Any particular reason why > the document refers to PKCS#1 v1.5 (almost 10 years old) > instead of PKCS#1 v2.1 (2002)? The newer version includes the old > 1.5 algorithms, but has substantial editorial improvements (also, > 1.5 didn't include SHA-1 OIDs). PKCS#1 v2.1 is also published as RFC > 3447 (informational). This should be fixed. There was no particular reason for the old reference, except maybe that the old reference was readily available in my xml2rfc bibliography ;-( > o Section 7.1.2 (technical): This does not specify the hash > algorithm for the RSA signature. (The hash algorithm that was used > can be deduced from the PKCS1.5 signature, but still SEND should > specify what the sender should select). > > Might something like "The signature value is computed with the > RSASSA-PKCS1-v1_5 algorithm and SHA-1 hash as defined in > [PKCSv21]." be better? Ok. > o Section 7.1.2 (technical): If the signature is calculated "over > the the [sic] whole packet as defined by the usual AH rules [3]", > the Timestamp and Key Information fields won't get included in the > calculation (the usual AH rules say that the whole Authentication > Data part is set to zero for this calculation). Oops. Another sign of not a perfect match for AH. > o Section 7.1.2 (technical): AH requires that the Authentication Data > field must be multiple of 32 bits (for IPv4) or 64 bits (IPv6). > This means that in some cases, additional padding must be added to > the end of the Authentication Data field. > > While the draft says that "The length of this field [Digital > Signature] is determined by the PKCS #1 encoding.", the PKCS#1 RSA > signature does not actually include a length field. Adding a new > length field to tell where the signature value ends and padding > starts would probably be the easiest solution. It's not absolutely > necessary, though, since the signature value has always the same > length as the RSA modulus (in its "raw" form -- which can be > different than the DER encoding of RSAPublicKey.modulus field). > > Another complication related to this is that the length of the > signature field must be known before signing. Yes. I would add a new length field, but I agree that its a bit complicated. > o Section 7.1.3 (technical): Is it possible to configure more > than one trusted root? This would make sense. > o Section 7.1.3 (technical): Definition of "minbits" (sort of) > assumes that all intermediate certificates are also signed with > RSA. In general, this doesn't have to be true: a certificate for > peer's RSA key could be signed with elliptic curve DSA or > something else for which the "minbits" doesn't make sense. Hmm.... perhaps minbits should be kept as a CGA-specific policy, i.e. apply only to the key which is used in the CGA generation. > Also, "minbits" is just one example of a policy specifying what > sort of certificate chains are acceptable and what are not. For > instance, we could require revocation checks (CRL lookup, or OCSP). > Maybe these shouldn't be in the SA at all, so perhaps > "minbits" could be redefined to refer just to the peer key? > (If it's needed at all) I'm not sure how this would work. We don't necessarily know the peer's key. Can you clarify? > o Sections 7.1.4 and 7.1.2 (technical) > > The document is less than clear when timestamp anti-replay > protection should be enabled for inbound security associations, and > how nodes without accurate clocks should work. Note that in normal > AH, only checking sequence numbers is optional--generating them > is not. In AH_RSA_Sig, we can have a situation where the sender > has bad clock and generates completely bogus timestamps, but the > receiver would like to check them -- and has no way of signalling > this to the sender. > > For instance, if the timestamp checking is enabled for all inbound > Neighbor Advertisement messages, then all messages from nodes with > bad clocks are dropped. But replays of solicited advertisements > could be prevented by nonces alone... Right. This particular case would work better with ND options, because you can take a look at the nonce and be satisfied even if the timestamp is wrong. But we still do have an issue of what to do with unsolicited advertisements! > (One alternative would be that the sender of the solicited NA > copies the timestamp value from the solicitation, just like nonce, > but this sounds like an ugly protocol layering violation to me). Yep. > A similar problem applies to Neighbor Solicitations. If timestamp > checking is enabled for all inbound NSs, nodes with bad clocks > can't get our address. If we don't check timestamps, replays are > possible (and as described in psreq-03 section 4.1.1, there are > cases when a node may create neighbor cache entries based on > Solicitation messages). So, a sensible rule might be that "in case > of invalid timestamp, still respond to the message, but don't > create a neighbor cache entry", right? (Again, this seems to > break protocol layering) > > One possible solution to these layering violations (between > AH_RSA_Sig and ICMPv6) would be to move the timestamp (and thus all > replay protection) to the ICMPv6 layer, by adding a new option > similar to Nonce. Or move the nonce to AH layer (but we can't see a > simple way to do this). Actually, the first option sounds pretty good. The only downside is that signature verification has to occur before replay protection, which adds to the DoS issues that I already worry a bit in SEND. > o Section 7.2 (technical) > > This section actually proposes quite a radical change to IPsec > processing! The destination-agnostic SAs are indeed covered by > the (uncontroversial) changes in ESPv3/AHv3. However, selecting > an inbound SA based on ICMPv6 type code is not. But wait. The inbound SA is selected purely by the SPI. After decryption it is matched with the SA's selectors. There's nothing controversial about this part. The only question is if SPDs/selectors can use ICMPv6 type codes. Based on recent discussion in IPsec WG, this will likely happen. > The SPD selectors indeed contain a field for port number where this > could be stored. However, in normal IPsec processing, the SPD is > checked only after the packet has been authenticated -- so it can't > be used to select an SA for inbound packets (the example policy > entries in Sections 8.4 and 9.5 also assume that SPD is consulted > before selecting SA). But using the ICMPv6 type for selecting > inbound SA would also be some sort of protocol layering > violation.... > > Fixing this might be possible rather easily. One > possible way to refactor this would be the following: > > - Always create exactly two special inbound SAs (with two > different special SPIs), one for plain AH_RSA_Sig and other > one for AH_RSA_Sig+CGA verification (hosts which don't support > CGA can treat these two identically; sender can select which > to use). This should remove the need to have a separate > CGA flag. > - Move most of the fields from the inbound SAs to inbound > SPD entries (except CGA flag). Ah yes now I see what you are getting at. Yes, separate SPIs appear to be needed. > Sections 9-11 > ------------- > > o Section 9.2.2 (technical/editorial): When Router Advertisements > protected only with CGA (but not trusted root) are useful? > If they are, document reasons... They are currently included because they require no configuration. But you are right that they might not offer any protection, at least no as currently specified. > o Section 9.3.2 (editorial): These requirements duplicate some of > the requirements already described in RFC2461 (section 8.1). > E.g. RFC2461 already says that unspecified source address is not > allowed, and must match the current routing table. This needs to be reformulated accordingly. > o Section 10: What about co-existence of nodes using CGA and those > not using CGA? Good question. This isn't currently discussed, I think. But isn't this rather obvious? nodes that have both certs and cgas can interwork with nodes that use only certs. And it also works in the reverse direction, assuming we can set a policy which requires at least one of cga or cert to be used. > o Section 10.1 (editorial/technical): If SEND nodes don't try do > detect if the same address is used by a non-SEND node, why DAD > Neighbor Solicitations are sent to the normal solicited-node > multicast address, too? To prevent the non-SEND nodes (in some cases) using the SEND node's address. I believe this is discussed in the security considerations. > o Section 10.1 (technical): The spec says that "Hosts configured for > SEND MUST use SEND for all of their addresses, including link local > addresses.". Are hosts allowed to use SEND on one link, and not > use SEND on some other link? I think I wrote that down somewhere, but now I can't find it. I think the intention is to allow the SEND-capability to be per link. > o Section 10.1 (technical): "Secure Router and Neighbor > Advertisements MUST use a source address that satisfies the > security properties outlined in Section 9. Unless this address is > link-local, it MUST belong to one of the advertised secure > prefixes. Similarly, source addresses for insecure advertisements > MUST belong to one of the advertised insecure prefixes, unless the > address is link-local." > > This changes RFC261 requirements (the source address of Router > Advertisements is always a link-local address). If this is > intentional, document justifications. Yes. I believe this is an open issue which has been discussed before. Solutions for this include two link-local prefixes, or switching to draft-arkko-send-ndopt-00.txt. > o Section 11 (editorial): In phrase "Signatures related to the use > of the AH_RSA_Sig transform MAY be precomputed for Multicast > Neighbor and Router Advertisements.", perhaps "..precomputed for > unsolicited (multicast) Neighbor and Router..." would be clearer. Yes. Thanks. --Jari -------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this list, send email with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the body to . Archive: http://standards.ericsson.net/lists/ietf-send/maillist.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jari.arkko@lmf.ericsson.se Wed Jul 9 06:55:01 2003 Received: from penguin.al.sw.ericsson.se (penguin-ext.wise.edt.ericsson.se [193.180.251.47]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA27027 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 06:55:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from esealnt610.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.120]) by penguin.al.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/WIREfire-1.6b) with ESMTP id h69ArJGJ027616; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 12:53:20 +0200 (MEST) Received: from fnatte.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.242.8]) by esealnt610.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id NW4Q966T; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 12:54:10 +0200 Received: from sw.ericsson.se (prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se [153.88.240.43]) by fnatte.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69ArIxR021296; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 12:53:18 +0200 (MEST) Received: from prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h69Aocme023121; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 12:50:38 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from ietfmdomo@localhost) by prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h69Aoc5c023120; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 12:50:38 +0200 (MET DST) X-Authentication-Warning: prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se: ietfmdomo set sender to owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net using -f Received: from penguin.al.sw.ericsson.se (penguin.al.sw.ericsson.se [193.180.251.47]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h69Aobme023113 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 12:50:37 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from esealnt612.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.118]) by penguin.al.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/WIREfire-1.6b) with ESMTP id h69AobGJ026974 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 12:50:37 +0200 (MEST) Received: from hendrix.lmf.ericsson.se ([131.160.11.8]) by esealnt612.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id NW4VXA9D; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 12:50:36 +0200 Received: from trinity.ericsson.fi (trinity [131.160.206.12]) by hendrix.lmf.ericsson.se (8.12.8/8.12.8/lmf-2.1-jcs) with ESMTP id h69AobSZ011743 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 13:50:37 +0300 (EET DST) Received: from p2.piuha.net (p2.piuha.net [131.160.192.2]) by trinity.ericsson.fi (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72E7C5F691 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 13:50:52 +0300 (EEST) Received: from kolumbus.fi (p4.piuha.net [131.160.192.4]) by p2.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32CD06A906; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 13:50:31 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <3F0BF2E2.80604@kolumbus.fi> Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 13:48:02 +0300 From: Jari Arkko User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20030225 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dave Thaler Cc: ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Subject: Re: DT's review of draft-ietf-send-ipsec-01.txt, part 2 References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Agree on all of the editorial comments here. These will be fixed. --Jari -------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this list, send email with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the body to . Archive: http://standards.ericsson.net/lists/ietf-send/maillist.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jari.arkko@lmf.ericsson.se Wed Jul 9 06:56:19 2003 Received: from albatross.tn.sw.ericsson.se (albatross-ext.wise.edt.ericsson.se [193.180.251.49]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA27065 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 06:56:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from esealnt612.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.118]) by albatross.tn.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/WIREfire-1.6b) with ESMTP id h69ArJIi003230; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 12:53:20 +0200 (MEST) Received: from fnatte.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.242.8]) by esealnt612.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id NW4VXBQ8; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 12:53:19 +0200 Received: from sw.ericsson.se (prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se [153.88.240.43]) by fnatte.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69Ar7xR021292; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 12:53:07 +0200 (MEST) Received: from prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h69AoIme023097; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 12:50:18 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from ietfmdomo@localhost) by prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h69AoIQv023096; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 12:50:18 +0200 (MET DST) X-Authentication-Warning: prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se: ietfmdomo set sender to owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net using -f Received: from albatross.tn.sw.ericsson.se (albatross.tn.sw.ericsson.se [193.180.251.49]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h69AoHme023092 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 12:50:17 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from esealnt612.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.118]) by albatross.tn.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/WIREfire-1.6b) with ESMTP id h69AoHIi002391 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 12:50:17 +0200 (MEST) Received: from hendrix.lmf.ericsson.se ([131.160.11.8]) by esealnt612.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id NW4VXA7M; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 12:50:17 +0200 Received: from trinity.ericsson.fi (trinity [131.160.206.12]) by hendrix.lmf.ericsson.se (8.12.8/8.12.8/lmf-2.1-jcs) with ESMTP id h69AoHSZ011734 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 13:50:17 +0300 (EET DST) Received: from p2.piuha.net (p2.piuha.net [131.160.192.2]) by trinity.ericsson.fi (Postfix) with ESMTP id C70D45F691 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 13:50:32 +0300 (EEST) Received: from kolumbus.fi (p4.piuha.net [131.160.192.4]) by p2.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D7D56A906; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 13:50:11 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <3F0BF2CE.80603@kolumbus.fi> Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 13:47:42 +0300 From: Jari Arkko User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20030225 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dave Thaler Cc: ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Subject: Re: DT's review of draft-ietf-send-ipsec-01.txt References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dave, Sorry for the delay in answering the rest of the issues. I've been on "vacation" (mostly painting and other household chores) for a while. > 1) Section 6 states: > > Similarly, the router, which is already connected to the network, can > > if necessary communicate off-link and construct the certificate > > chain. > > This should be clarified with "in some cases". If the router is > not connected to the Internet, this may not be possible. Right. > 2) Sections 6.1 and 6.2 describe an Identifier field, but does not specify how > it is set in a solicitation or in an unsolicited advertisement. E.g. > if it is always set to 1, it doesn't seem very useful. Likewise, if > each host starts with 1 and increments, it's also less useful > since hosts can collide. I think it should be randomly generated if > possible. Ok. > 3) Sections 6.3 and 6.4 both specify options with a variable-length > field followed by padding. However, they use two different encodings > for no good reason. One specifies the length of the field, and the > other specifies the length of the padding. Instead, both options > should be consistent. Right. Lets change 6.4. > 4) Section 6.4 says: > > When the Name Type field is set to 1, the Name field contains the > > Fully Qualified Domain Name of the trusted root, for example > > "trustroot.operator.com". > > More guidance is needed to prevent interoperability problems. > Is the string null-terminated (I assume no)? > Are internationalized domain names legal? What is the encoding? > (UTF-8? Unicode? ...) I see your point. Is there a good example where FQDN usage has been fully specified? > 5) Section 6.5 says: > > RFC 3281. If the GeneralName attribute is a dNSName, it MUST be > > resolvable to a global unicast address assigned to the router. If > > the GeneralName attribute is an iPAddress, it MUST be a global > > unicast address assigned to the router. For purposes of > facilitating > > For people not familiar with X.509, is it easy to explain in 1-2 > sentences what it is used for? (That is, why is it a MUST above?) > As is, it sounds suspiciously like a security hole. I agree that more explanation is required. The intentin of the IP address is to provide a check against the router's IP address in the cert. > 6) Section 6.5.1 says: > > This field MUST contain a list of prefixes that the router is > > authorized to route, or the unspecified prefix if the router > > This wording is particularly problematic. Routers route packets > not prefixes. They _advertise_ prefixes in RA's and in routing protocols. > It's similarly unclear whether the prefix list is what remote > prefixes it's allowed to advertise as off-link routes in RA's (e.g. > ::/0 if it can be a default router on the link), or whether the prefix > list is what local prefixes it's allowed to advertise as on-link routes > in RA's. I'm guessing the latter, but I can think of arguments for > restricting both. Right. It should have said advertise. And yes, it should probably be the latter case for the advertisements. > 7) Sections 6.6 and 6.7 appear to contradict each other. > 6.6 says: > > SHOULD send an advertisement without any certificates. In this case > > the router SHOULD include the Trusted Root options which were > > solicited. > Hence the Trusted Root option is legal in an advertisement. > > 6.7 says: > > packet processed in the normal manner. The only defined option that > > may appear is the Certificate option. An advertisement that passes > Hence the Trusted Root option is not legal in an advertisement. Right. 6.7 should be corrected. > 8) Section 7.1.2 and reference [27] contradict each other. > 7.1.2 says: > > CGAParameters ::= SEQUENCE { > > publicKey SubjectPublicKeyInfo, > > auxParameters CGAAuxParameters OPTIONAL } > whereas [27] now has the opposite order. > It would be better to not copy the definition here at all, and just > refer to [27] for the definition. Ok. > 9) Section 7.1.3 talks about a minbits parameter. It doesn't really > say how the value should be determined. Some guidance would be > helpful. Perhaps [27] can help here? Maybe add a reference? > 10) 7.1.4 says: > > source address. A packet that has already been seen from the same > > source with the same Timestamp field value MUST be silently > > discard. > > Since the granularity of the field is in milliseconds, you need to > specify that a node must not send two SEND messages during the same > millisecond. However, this restriction may be problematic in some > scenarios. Hmm... Yes, I agree that this could be problematic. Is a better granularity needed, say microsecond? --Jari -------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this list, send email with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the body to . Archive: http://standards.ericsson.net/lists/ietf-send/maillist.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jari.arkko@lmf.ericsson.se Wed Jul 9 08:47:57 2003 Received: from albatross.tn.sw.ericsson.se (albatross-ext.wise.edt.ericsson.se [193.180.251.49]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA29042 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 08:47:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from esealnt612.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.118]) by albatross.tn.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/WIREfire-1.6b) with ESMTP id h69CjjIi009209; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 14:45:45 +0200 (MEST) Received: from tjatte.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.242.9]) by esealnt612.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id NW4VX57D; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 14:45:39 +0200 Received: from sw.ericsson.se (prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se [153.88.240.43]) by tjatte.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69Cjcxa022463; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 14:45:38 +0200 (MEST) Received: from prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h69Ch2me007281; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 14:43:02 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from ietfmdomo@localhost) by prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h69Ch2tZ007280; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 14:43:02 +0200 (MET DST) X-Authentication-Warning: prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se: ietfmdomo set sender to owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net using -f Received: from penguin.al.sw.ericsson.se (penguin.al.sw.ericsson.se [193.180.251.47]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h69Ch1me007276 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 14:43:01 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from esealnt613.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.125]) by penguin.al.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/WIREfire-1.6b) with ESMTP id h69Ch0GJ028419 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 14:43:00 +0200 (MEST) Received: from hendrix.lmf.ericsson.se ([131.160.11.8]) by esealnt613.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id N8XJB0N4; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 14:43:00 +0200 Received: from trinity.ericsson.fi (trinity [131.160.206.12]) by hendrix.lmf.ericsson.se (8.12.8/8.12.8/lmf-2.1-jcs) with ESMTP id h69Ch1SZ018487 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 15:43:01 +0300 (EET DST) Received: from p2.piuha.net (p2.piuha.net [131.160.192.2]) by trinity.ericsson.fi (Postfix) with ESMTP id 598FB5F691 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 15:43:16 +0300 (EEST) Received: from kolumbus.fi (p4.piuha.net [131.160.192.4]) by p2.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A03956A906; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 15:42:54 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <3F0C0D3A.9030105@kolumbus.fi> Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 15:40:26 +0300 From: Jari Arkko User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20030225 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Francis Dupont , SEND WG Subject: Re: review of draft-ietf-send-ipsec-01.txt (editorials) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Here are my comments about draft-ietf-send-ipsec-01.txt: > > - 1. Introduction (proposed improvement) > > security associations needed for protecting ND is impractically large > > => s/is/can be/ (rationale: it is not always the case, for instance > p2p links can be protected with a pair of SAs). Agree. > - 2. Terms (spelling) > > some other parameters using a one-way hash function. > > => s/a/an/ ? Hmm... No. > - same (comment) > > Security association database > > A nominal database containing parameters that are associated with > each (active) security association. For inbound and outbound > IPsec processing, these databases are separate. > > => databases are per-interface too. IMHO this is not a problem if we > ignore the multiple interfaces attached to the same link case... Right. Should be fixed. > - 3. Neighbor and Router Discovery Overview (comment) > > how the messages should be treated. Where this section and the > original Neighbor Discovery RFCs are in conflict, the original RFCs > take precedence. > > => I have a real concern with this statement. If this section is not > normative, it should be made clearer. I have a proposal: explain that > the section should be an appendix but for clarity it is at this place. Yes, for clarity it needs to be here. How about this: we modify the text as follows: "This section is not normative, and where the original ...". > - same (wording) > > header consisting of ICMPv6 header and ND message-specific data, and > ^ an Ok. > - same (improvement) > > The destination addresses used in these messages are as follows: > > => there are two missing things: > - a global statement explaining that ND is local to the link > (for all messages). > - constraints over the source address too. Agreed. Good suggestions! > o Neighbor Solicitation: The destination address is either the > solicited-node multicast address, unicast address, or an anycast > ^ a > address. Ok. > => source in unspecified (DAD) or a unicast address assigned > to the sending interface. Note that in general the source is > the same than the one of the triggering packet. > > o Neighbor Advertisement: The destination address is either a > unicast address or the All Nodes multicast address [1]. > > => source is a unicast address assigned to the sending interface. > > o Router Solicitation: The destination address is typically the All > Routers multicast address [1]. > > => same than for NS but the unspecified source has no special > meaning: it is just an optimization for startup. > > o Router Advertisement: The destination address can be either a > unicast or the All Nodes multicast address [1]. Like the > solicitation message, the advertisement is also local to the link > only. > > => source is a link-local address assigned to the sending interface > (usually there is only one such address). Please make the second > statement (local to the link only) more general. > > o Redirect: This message is always sent from the router's link-local > address to the source address of the packet that triggered the > Redirect. Hosts verify that the IP source address of the Redirect > is the same as the current first-hop router for the specified ICMP > Destination Address. Rules in [1] dictate that unspecified, > > => unspecified source is not forbidden. > > anycast, or multicast addresses may not be used as source > addresses. Therefore, the destination address will always be a > unicast address. > > => to deduce that the destination address in the IPv6 header of a redirect > (there is a field named "destination address" to help us ;-) is always > a unicast address the argument is: > - anycasts and multicasts are forbidden as source > - unspecified is forbidden as destination (all nodes is used when > one'd like to reach any node). Thanks. This is very useful information. > - 6. Authorization Delegation Discovery (wording) > > Since the newly-connected node likely can not communicate off-link, > > => s/the/a/ ? I think the previous paragraph introduced this node, so "the" is fine. > = same (same) > > the router; however, given a chain of appropriately signed > ... > Similarly, the router, which is already connected to the network, can > > => s/the/a/ ? Yes for the first case, not sure about the second. > - 6.1 Delegation Chain Solicitation Message Format (wording) > > Identifier > > This 16 bit unsigned integer field acts as an identifier to > help match advertisements to solicitations. The Identifier > > => either "help to match" or "help matching" ? Yes. > - 6.4 Certificate Option (clarification) > > Cert Type > > The type of the certificate included in the Name field. This > specification defines only one legal value for this field: > > 1 X.509 Certificate > > => s/X.509/X.509v3/ Ok. > - same (wording) > > Pad Length > > The amount of padding beyond the end of the Certificate field but > within the length specified by the Length field. Padding MUST be > set to zero by senders and ignored by receivers. > > => broken... I propose something like: > > Pad Length > > The number of padding octets beyond the end of the Certificate > field but within the length specified by the Length field. > Padding octets MUST be set to zero by senders and ignored by > receivers. Ok. > - same (clarification) > > Certificate > > When the Cert Type field is set to 1, the Certificate field > contains an X.509 certificate [16]. > > => s/X.509/X.509v3/ Ok. > - 6.5.1 Field Values (comment) > > => please reorder (acinfo.holder together, etc) Ok. > - same (same) > > A host MUST send Delegation Chain Solicitations either to the > All-Routers multicast address, if it has not selected a default > router yet, or to the default router's IP address if it has already > been selected. > > => note that this address is always a link-local (but not fe80:: > if we don't want to make some implementers kill themselves :-). Right. Should be clarified that the message should be sent to the link-local address of the router. > - same (wording) > > When processing a possible advertisement sent as a response to a > > => When processing possible advertisements sent as responses to a Right. > - 7.1 The AH_RSA_Sig Transform (wording) > > IPsec DOI [4] Transform ID TBD , however. > > => s/TBD// Yes. > - 7.1.1 Reserved SPI Number (same) > > The AH_RSA_Sig MUST be only be used with the reserved SPI number TBD > . > > => s/TBD// Yes. > - 7.1.2 Authentication Data Format (same) > > chosen transform. For the AH_RSA_Sig transform, the format is as > follows: ^^^^^ > > => missing word? (at least poor wording) "is the following" is better? > - 7.1.3 AH_RSA_Sig Security Associations (wording) > > CGA flag > > A flag that indicates whether or not the CGA property must be > verified. > > => IMHO the "whether or not" wording should be improved, for instance: > > CGA flag > > A flag that indicates whether the CGA property must be or not be > verified. > > (many occurrences) Yes. Thanks. > - 7.1.5 Processing Rules for Senders (comment) > > o Additionally, if the use of CGA has been specified for the > security association, the source address of the packet MUST be > constructed as specified in [27]. > > => move this up: AH construction needs to know addresses. Ok. > - 7.2.1 Destination Agnostic Security Associations (comment) > > Security associations that use the SPI value specified in > Section 7.1.1 MUST be identified solely by the SPI and protocol > numbers, not by the destination IP address. > > => RFc 2401bis removed the protocol number (50 ou 51) too > with a very carefull wording (ask Stephen Kent or grep the archive). Ok. > - 9.2.1 Sending Secure Router Advertisements (comment) > > The source address of the message MUST NOT be the unspecified > address. > > => change to in "MUST be a link-local address". Ok. > - 9.2.2 Receiving Secure Router Advertisements (same) > > If source address of the Router Advertisement message is the > unspecified address, the message MUST be silently discarded. > > => same: "is not a link-local address". Ok. > - 9.3.1 Sending Redirects (same) > > The source address of the Redirect message MUST NOT be the > unspecified address. > > => same... Ok. > - 9.3.2 Receiving Redirects (same) > > If source address of the Redirect message is the unspecified address, > the message MUST be silently discarded. > > => same. BTW IMHO the link-local address requirement should be > integrated into the 2. Ok. > - 10.1 Behavior Rules (wording) > > o Nodes configured for SEND MUST listen to the solicited-node > multicast address in addition to the securely-solicited-node > multicast address. The messages received on the solicited-node > multicast address are unprotected, but the SEND node MUST respond > to them as follows. ^^^ s/the/a/ > > Upon seeing a Neighbor Solicitation for an address which is > currently assigned to its own interface, the SEND node sends as a > ^^^ s/the/a > response a Neighbor Solicitation with the following contents: Ok. > - same (spelling) > > o Hosts configured for SEND MUST use SEND for all of their > addresses, including link local addresses. > > => link-local Yes. > - same (wording) > > the other prefixes are on-link. Thus, these hosts will request the > ^^^ a > router to route packets destined to a host in the other group. The > rules regarding Redirect messages above have been provided to ensure > that the router performs its routing task and does not instruct the > ^^^ a ^^^ > hosts to communicate directly. Or maybe "that routers perform their ..." > - same (wording) > > Solicited Node Multicast Group for the address that they are claiming > RFC 2461 [6]. > > => missing word(s) between the two lines? Yes. I think its "for their addresses". > - 13.3 Attacks against SEND Itself (comment) > > Security associations based on the use of asymmetric cryptography can > be vulnerable to Denial-of-Service attacks, particularly when the > attacker can guess the SPIs and destination addresses used in the > security associations. In SEND this is easy, as both the SPIs and > > => please avoid the page break here. I'll see if there's something for this in xml2rfc... > - same (wording) > > The Authorization Delegation Discovery process may also be vulnerable > to Denial-of-Service attacks. An attack may target a router by > request a large number of delegation chains to be discovered for > > => s/request/requesting/ or s//requiring/ ? Requesting, I think. > - 14. IANA Considerations (wording) > > This document defines two new Neighbor Discovery [6] options, which > > => s/two/three/ Right. > - Normative References (update) > > [1] Hinden, R. and S. Deering, "IP Version 6 Addressing > Architecture", RFC 2373, July 1998. > > => RFC 3513, April 2003. Ah, progress! > - same (presentation) > > [18] National Institute of Standards and Technology, "Secure Hash > Standard", FIPS PUB 180-1, April 1995, www.itl.nist.gov/fipspubs/fip180-1.htm>. > > => Standard", FIPS PUB 180-1, April 1995, > . Thanks. > - Informative References (update) > > [26] Kent, S., "IP Encapsulating Security Payload (ESP)", > draft-ietf-ipsec-esp-v3-04 (work in progress), March 2003. > > => -05, April 2003 Ok. --Jari -------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this list, send email with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the body to . Archive: http://standards.ericsson.net/lists/ietf-send/maillist.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jari.arkko@lmf.ericsson.se Wed Jul 9 08:50:31 2003 Received: from albatross.tn.sw.ericsson.se (albatross-ext.wise.edt.ericsson.se [193.180.251.49]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA29097 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 08:50:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from esealnt613.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.125]) by albatross.tn.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/WIREfire-1.6b) with ESMTP id h69CmvIi010237; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 14:48:57 +0200 (MEST) Received: from tjatte.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.242.9]) by esealnt613.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id N8XJCA0T; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 14:48:57 +0200 Received: from sw.ericsson.se (prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se [153.88.240.43]) by tjatte.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69Cmuxa022507; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 14:48:56 +0200 (MEST) Received: from prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h69CkNme008526; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 14:46:23 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from ietfmdomo@localhost) by prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h69CkNaT008525; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 14:46:23 +0200 (MET DST) X-Authentication-Warning: prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se: ietfmdomo set sender to owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net using -f Received: from albatross.tn.sw.ericsson.se (albatross.tn.sw.ericsson.se [193.180.251.49]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h69CkMme008521 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 14:46:22 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from esealnt612.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.118]) by albatross.tn.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/WIREfire-1.6b) with ESMTP id h69CkMIi009450 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 14:46:22 +0200 (MEST) Received: from hendrix.lmf.ericsson.se ([131.160.11.8]) by esealnt612.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id NW4VX6B6; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 14:46:22 +0200 Received: from trinity.ericsson.fi (trinity [131.160.206.12]) by hendrix.lmf.ericsson.se (8.12.8/8.12.8/lmf-2.1-jcs) with ESMTP id h69CkNSZ018804 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 15:46:23 +0300 (EET DST) Received: from p2.piuha.net (p2.piuha.net [131.160.192.2]) by trinity.ericsson.fi (Postfix) with ESMTP id 268FC5F691 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 15:46:38 +0300 (EEST) Received: from kolumbus.fi (p4.piuha.net [131.160.192.4]) by p2.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D92656A906 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 15:46:16 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <3F0C0E04.1070500@kolumbus.fi> Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 15:43:48 +0300 From: Jari Arkko User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20030225 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SEND WG Subject: open issues Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello folks, I have set up an issue list around draft-send-ipsec-01.txt. You can browse it at http://www.piuha.net/~jarkko/publications/send/issues We have received a lot of very useful input and reviews, please take a look at the issue list to ensure that I have not missed anything. And then propose some resolutions to the open issues ;-) Chairs: the current agenda for the meeting is heavily biased for the discussion of IPsec. vs. ND option discussion. But there are some other issues as well. Are there any that deserve to be discussed in the meeting? --Jari -------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this list, send email with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the body to . Archive: http://standards.ericsson.net/lists/ietf-send/maillist.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jari.arkko@lmf.ericsson.se Wed Jul 9 08:50:38 2003 Received: from albatross.tn.sw.ericsson.se (albatross-ext.wise.edt.ericsson.se [193.180.251.49]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA29113 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 08:50:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from esealnt610.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.120]) by albatross.tn.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/WIREfire-1.6b) with ESMTP id h69CmeIi010147; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 14:48:40 +0200 (MEST) Received: from fnatte.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.242.8]) by esealnt610.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id NW4Q0XV5; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 14:49:22 +0200 Received: from sw.ericsson.se (prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se [153.88.240.43]) by fnatte.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69CmNxR024918; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 14:48:23 +0200 (MEST) Received: from prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h69CiFme007336; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 14:44:15 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from ietfmdomo@localhost) by prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h69CiFZM007335; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 14:44:15 +0200 (MET DST) X-Authentication-Warning: prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se: ietfmdomo set sender to owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net using -f Received: from albatross.tn.sw.ericsson.se (albatross.tn.sw.ericsson.se [193.180.251.49]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h69Cgqme007270 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 14:42:54 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from esealnt610.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.120]) by albatross.tn.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/WIREfire-1.6b) with ESMTP id h69CgqIi008278 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 14:42:52 +0200 (MEST) Received: from hendrix.lmf.ericsson.se ([131.160.11.8]) by esealnt610.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id NW4Q0VYP; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 14:43:42 +0200 Received: from trinity.ericsson.fi (trinity [131.160.206.12]) by hendrix.lmf.ericsson.se (8.12.8/8.12.8/lmf-2.1-jcs) with ESMTP id h69CgqSZ018484 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 15:42:52 +0300 (EET DST) Received: from p2.piuha.net (p2.piuha.net [131.160.192.2]) by trinity.ericsson.fi (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38D525F691 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 15:43:07 +0300 (EEST) Received: from kolumbus.fi (p4.piuha.net [131.160.192.4]) by p2.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E52F6A905; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 15:42:45 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <3F0C0D2D.8020301@kolumbus.fi> Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 15:40:13 +0300 From: Jari Arkko User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20030225 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Francis Dupont Cc: SEND WG , Pekka Nikander Subject: Re: review of draft-ietf-send-ipsec-01.txt (substantial) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Francis and many thanks for your valuable comments! Please find some responses inline for the substantive issues, the editorial ones come in the next e-mail. I have Cced Pekka as I think he'll have to answer some of the certificate and security considerations questions. > - same (comment) > > approach involves the use of IPsec AH [3] to secure all > > => don't forget than the IPsec WG still wants to phase out AH, > that was voted at a previous IETF meeting. So I suggest you > ask the IESG to *not* make AH historic in a close future. > IMHO IPsec guys should be happy as soon as AH in no more > mandatory... This related to the NDoption vs. AH discussion as well. Lets take that decision first, then come back to this if necessary. > - same (comment) > > but not both. A security association is uniquely identified by a > triple consisting of a Security Parameter Index (SPI), an IP > Destination Address, and a security protocol (AH or ESP) > identifier [2]. > > => (note that this is discussed in the document). RFC 2401bis is supposed > to use only the SPI. IMHO you have to show this document to Stephen Kent > in order to support both 2401 and 2401bis context. ESPv3 draft can give > good hints if you don't want to read the whole IPsec mailing list archive. Yes, there's a looong discussion in saag/ipsec about these things now... > - same (comment) > > o The Redirect function is used for automatically redirecting hosts > to an alternate router. Redirect is specified in Section 8 of RFC > 2461 [6]. It is similar to the ICMPv4 Redirect message [19]. > > => this is *not* true: IPv6 redirect has 3 functions: > - change the router for a better one (the function you described) > - change the link-layer address (target == destination). This should > be in general by the peer itself with a NA at the exception of the > last case. > - give the link-layer address of an off-link destination which is > in fact on-link. This "external redirect" is used for IPv6 over > ATM to implement NHRP short cuts for instance. Oops. These new functions may also need some security thinking, whether they pose some problem to the currently specified Redirect handling rules in SEND. > - 4. Secure Neighbor Discovery Overview (comment) > > Optionally, an authorization certificate can specify the prefixes > for which the router is allowed to act as a router. > > => I don't understand at all this statement: prefix discovery > is not bound to the default router function... I believe that > you mean "is allowed to advertise"?? Yes, this was commented by some others as well. Its really about whether the router is allowed to advertise the prefixes, as you suggest. > - same (comment/request for improvement) > > o Cryptographically Generated Addresses are used to assure that the > sender of a Neighbor or Router Advertisement is the owner of an > the claimed address. A public-private key pair needs to be > generated by all nodes before they can claim an address. > > => this suggests that all addresses should be CGAs. Of course this > is only one of the two cases: > - certified addresses (always the case for universal or static IID) > - CGAs (which always give local IID) Right. Should be fixed. > - same (comment) > > o A new transform for IPsec AH allows public keys to be used on a > security association directly without the involvement of a key... > > => I propose to talk about inline signature, look at SKIP documents. Assuming we use AH, I'll do that. > - same (comment) > > The Authorization Delegation Discovery process does not exclude other > forms of discovering the certificate chains. For instance, during > > => IMHO this is the right place to introduce interaction with AAA systems. > If you'd like to use SEND in 802.11 hot spots, you have to talk about > this! Do you have a specific suggestion regarding the interaction? Do you wish to download certs from the AAA, or what? > - 6.3 Trusted Root Option (comment) > > => you don't support two root certificates for the same root... > I propose to add a name type where one can put a hash of the > certificate. For the hash itself the objectDigest seems perfect. Sounds good. Pekka? > BTW I don't understand why we should not put PKIX certificates? > IKEv2 does this, and it can make interoperability between implementations > less problematic. There's a pending discussion about the exact certificate types used. > - 6.5 Router Authorization Certificate Format (comment) > > MUST consist of standard Public Key Certificates (PKC, in the sense > of [11]) for identity from the trusted root shared with the host to > > => [11] (PKIX) doesn't use this term... IMHO the right reference is [12] > and the introduction text of [12] about PKC and AC should be copied! Sounds right. Pekka? > - same (comment) > > acinfo.attributes > > This field MUST contain a list of prefixes that the router is > authorized to route > > => I disagree: a router is not authorized to route a prefix, it is > authorized to advertise/annonce a prefix. About routing perhaps > it should be useful to authorize (or not) a router to be a default > router? Right. This has been covered under issue #5. > - same (comment) > > If the router is authorized only to route specific prefixes, the > ipAddress values consist of IPv6 addresses in standard RFC 3513 > [13] prefix format. > > => my problem is that ipAddress can't encode prefix in RFC 3513 format > (i.e., ipAddress can get a mask but not
/). > Please clarify, for instance with an example. RFC 3280 one is: > For example, a name > constraint for "class C" subnet 10.9.8.0 is represented as the octets > 0A 09 08 00 FF FF FF 00, representing the CIDR notation > 10.9.8.0/255.255.255.0. Ok. > - 6.6 Processing Rules for Routers (comment) > > their trusted root. When such advertisements are sent, their timing > MUST follow the rules given for Router Advertisements in RFC 2461 > [6]. The only defined option that may appear is the Certificate > option. At least one such option MUST be present. Router SHOULD > also include at least one Trusted Root option to indicate the trusted > root on which the Certificate is based. > > => the wording is too loose about what to do if the chain doesn't fit > inside one advertisement message: > - fragment DCA in place of distributing certs in DCAs (of course > the second is better) > - back to back DCAs for long chains > etc. I think the text is clear that the chain is sent in separate DCAs. However, there could still be an overflow from the link MTU for one cert, and for that we use fragmentation. Does this work for you? > - 6.7 Processing Rules for Hosts (comment) > > o IP Source Address is a unicast address. Note that routers may use > multiple addresses, so this address not sufficient for the unique > identification of routers. > > => RA sources are always link-local for this reason. Should we enforce > routers to use only link-local source for DCAs? Yes, thanks for noting this. > - 7.1.4 Replay Protection (comments) > > The format is 64 > bits, and the contents are the number of milliseconds since January > 1, 1970 00:00 UTC. > > => the millisecond unit is too small for data but not for ND. Perhaps > we should add a rationale saying it is not a problem to have no support > for more than one ND message per ms. Noted by others, too. Issue #6. > If anti-replay has been enabled, receivers MUST be configured with an > allowed Delta value and maintain a cache of messages received within > this time period from each specific source address. > > => is it really important to support not-in-order messages? Reordering > link-layers are not so frequent, and we talk about ND... I don't know. Seems like for solicited case nonces take care of all this, and for unsolicited case.... if I receiver reordered adverts, I'm not sure I care. But wait: what if a RA is split due to MTU and large content, we wouldn't want to drop the reordered "fragment" of the RA. > Recommended default value for the allowed Delta is 3,600 seconds. > > => this is far too large, especially for a single mechanism. Can you justify this? Too much memory, or what? We were thinking that most machines that are at all in the right time, are within this Delta... > o A packet that passes both of the above tests MUST be registered in > the cache for the given source address. > > => it is too soon to register it in the cache: the packet should pass > the AH signature check too. Yes. > o If the cache becomes full, the receiver SHOULD temporarily reduce > the Delta value for that source address so that all messages > within that value can still be stored. > > => this doesn't solve the problem but opens doors to DoS... > > I propose for not reordering link-layers (the reordering case can be > supported with small modifs but this should be clearer): > - a per-peer (using the source address of received messages as the index) > cache entry with: > * last received time stamp (TSlast) > * date of reception of last message (RDlast) > > - when a message is received from a new peer (i.e., a new source), > the packet is accepted if the timestamp is in the range: > - Max_delta < RDnew - TSnew < + Max_delta > An entry is created when the signature check passes. > > - when a message is received from a known peer, the time stamp (TSnew) > is checked against the last valid message: > TSlast + (RDnew - RDlast) x (1 - allowed_drift) < TSnew and > TSnew < TSlast + (RDnew - RDlast) x (1 + allowed_drif) > > - parameters are max_Delta and allowed_drift (10% ?) > > For reordering link-layer (i.e., complete rules) we need: > - max_link_layer_delay in the last rules > - retain only the valid message with the higher timestamp. This sounds pretty good. What do others think? > - 7.1.6 Processing Rules for Receivers (comment) > > Packets that do not pass all the above tests MUST be silently > discarded. > > => this is the place where to update the timestamp cache. Note that > "silently discarded" should imply "doesn't update the cache"... Ok. > - 8.1.1 Sending Secure Neighbor Solicitations (comment) > > The source address of the message MUST NOT be the unspecified > address. A Neighbor Solicitation sent as a part of Duplicate Address > Detection MUST use as a source address the tentative address for > which the Duplicate Address Detection is being run. > > => NO: NS used in DAD are recognized because they are sent from > the unspecified source. You are specifying a new DAD protocol... I agree, but what else can we do if AH needs to use the source address? Of course, draft-arkko-send-ndopt-00.txt does not have this problem ;-) > - same (same) > > When an interface is > initialized, a node MUST join securely-solicited-node multicast > address corresponding to each of the IP addresses assigned to the > interface. > > => we need to specify more: what source address for MLD joins for > instance... Yes. Do you have a suggestion? > - 8.3 Other Requirements (comment) > > Hosts that use stateless address autoconfiguration MUST generate a > new CGA as specified in Section 4 of [27] for each new > autoconfiguration run. > > => I disagree: nodes should have the choice between using a certified > IID or a CGA based IID. My main name-server is a host and I don't > want to use CGA for it for many reasons. Of course, I use stateless > autoconfig even I've switched from EID64 IID to ::1 IID some months > ago. Sounds reasonable. > It is outside the scope of this specification to describe the use of > trusted root authorization between hosts with dynamically changing > addresses. Such dynamically changing addresses may be the result of > stateful or stateless address autoconfiguration or through the use of > RFC 3041 [9]. If the CGA method is not used, hosts would be required > to exchange certificate chains that terminate in a certificate > authorizing a host to use an IP address having a particular interface > identifier. This specification does not specify the format of such > certificates, since there are currently a few cases where such > certificates are required by the link layer and it is up to the link > layer to provide certification for the interface identifier. This > may be the subject of a future specification. > > => this is not sound with the MUST of the previous paragraph. > And not with all the CGA=yes/no in next sections... Ok. > Please fix this and don't forget that mandatory encumbered technologies > like CGA won't pass last calls (so don't make them mandatory). The intention is to not make them mandatory. By the way, the Ericsson license for CGA IPRs should not block the use of this technology... > - 10. Co-Existence of SEND and ND (comment) > > => another solution is to make the legacy ND prefixes off-link. > The wording should clarify it is not the case. My personal preference is the ND option solution where we don't have to play tricks with the prefixes. > - same (comment) > > => the standard response to a DAD NS probe is a NA, can you > explain the change? This is used to "spoof" a parallel DAD process, making the other node give up the address. > - same (comment) > > Secure Router and Neighbor Advertisements MUST use a source > address that satisfies the security properties outlined in Section > > => don't forget that RAs are sent from a link-local address. Yes. > - 11. Performance Considerations (comment) > > Given that the IPv6 header is > covered by the AH integrity protection, it is typically not possible > to precompute solicited advertisements. > > => IMHO anti-replay stuff is enough to make precomputation impossible (:-). Precomputation is still possible, but unfortunately such precomputed messages can only be used once, at the designated time ;-) We are moving the computational effort, not reducing it. > - 13.1 Threats to the Local Link Not Covered by SEND (comment) > > To protect against such attacks, > link layer security MUST be used. An example of such for 802 type > networks is port-based access control [34]. > > => can you explain how 802.1X or any link-layer security can help here? > I claim that you have no way in the layer 2 or 3 themselves to protect > the layer 2 - layer 3 address binding! The only thing that SEND gives > is the attacker must be a node one trusts. Hmm.. with CGA it appears to give more. But I'll leave this question for Pekka to answer. > - 13.2.5 Replay Attacks (comment/wording) > > Since most SEND nodes are likely to use fairly coarse grained > timestamps, as explained in Section 7.1.4, this may affect some > nodes. > > => a millisecond is not so coarse grained. IMHO the statement > is more about the fairly large one hour delta... But the delta does not affect replay attacks, only memory usage. > PS: I can't find how to verify certified addresses, even for routers. > (this is not in 9.2) Indeed this is missing! Thanks again for your comments. --Jari -------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this list, send email with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the body to . Archive: http://standards.ericsson.net/lists/ietf-send/maillist.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jari.arkko@lmf.ericsson.se Wed Jul 9 10:51:29 2003 Received: from albatross.tn.sw.ericsson.se (albatross-ext.wise.edt.ericsson.se [193.180.251.49]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA03537 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 10:51:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from esealnt610.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.120]) by albatross.tn.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/WIREfire-1.6b) with ESMTP id h69EmAIi017836; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 16:48:10 +0200 (MEST) Received: from tjatte.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.242.9]) by esealnt610.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id NW4RAZ14; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 16:49:01 +0200 Received: from sw.ericsson.se (prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se [153.88.240.43]) by tjatte.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69Em9xa005476; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 16:48:09 +0200 (MEST) Received: from prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h69Eieme022635; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 16:44:40 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from ietfmdomo@localhost) by prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h69EieNt022634; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 16:44:40 +0200 (MET DST) X-Authentication-Warning: prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se: ietfmdomo set sender to owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net using -f Received: from n2now2135.com (80.179.100.245.forward.012.net.il [80.179.100.245]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with SMTP id h69EiVme022626 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 16:44:37 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200307091444.h69EiVme022626@sw.ericsson.se> From: "Olabisi Davies." Reply-To: bisidav@indiatimes.com To: ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 07:04:42 -0600 Subject: Joint Bussiness Offer !!! X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6900 DM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sw.ericsson.se id h69Eidme022630 Sender: owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear Sir, I am Olabisi Davies, Bank Manager of Orient Bank of Nigeria, Lagos Branch. I have urgent and very confidential business proposition for you. On June 6 ,1997 an American oil consultant/contractor with the Nigerian NationalPetroleum Corporation, Mr. Barry Kelly made a numbered time (Fixed)deposited for twelve calendar months, valued at US$25,000,000.00(Twenty-five Million Dollars) in my branch. Upon maturity, I sent a routine notification to his forwarding address but got no reply. After a month, we sent a reminder and finally we discovered from his contract employers, Nigerian National Petroleum Corporation that Mr. Barry Kelly died from an automobile accident. On further investigation, I found out that he did notleave a WILL and all attempts to trace his next ofkin were fruitless. I therefore made further investigation and discovered that Mr. Barry Kelly did not declare any next of kin in all his official documents, including his Bank Deposit paperwork. This sum of US$25million is still sitting in the Bank and the interest is being rolled over with the principal sum at the end of each year. No one will come forward to claim it. According to the Nigerian Law, at the expiration of 5years, the money will revert to the ownership of the Nigerian Government if nobody applies to claim the funds. Consequently, my proposal is that I will like you as a foreigner to stand in as the next of kin to Mr.Barry Kelly so that the fruits of this old man's labor will not get into the hands of some corrupt officials. This is simple, I will like you to provide me immediately with your full names and address so that the attorney willprepare the necessary documents and affidavits, which will put you in place as the next of kin. We shall employ the services of two attorneys for drafting and notarization of the WILL and obtain the necessary documents and letter of probate in your favor the transfer. A bank account in any part of the world, which you provide, will then facilitate the transfer of this money to you as the beneficiary/next of kin. The money will be paid into your account for us to share in the ratio of 60% for me and 40% foryou. There is no risk at all as all the paperwork for this transaction will be done by theattorney and my position as the Branch Manager guarantees the successful execution of this transaction. If you are interested, please reply immediately via the private email address: bisidav@indiatimes.com Upon your response, I shall then provide you with more details and relevant documents that will help you understand. Please observe utmost confidentiality, and rest assured of this transaction would be most profitable for both of us because I shall require your assistance to invest my share in your country. Awaiting your urgent reply via email. Thanks and regards Olabisi Davies. -------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this list, send email with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the body to . Archive: http://standards.ericsson.net/lists/ietf-send/maillist.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jari.arkko@lmf.ericsson.se Wed Jul 9 11:37:18 2003 Received: from penguin.al.sw.ericsson.se (penguin-ext.wise.edt.ericsson.se [193.180.251.47]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA06348 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 11:37:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from esealnt613.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.125]) by penguin.al.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/WIREfire-1.6b) with ESMTP id h69FYDGJ011700; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 17:34:13 +0200 (MEST) Received: from tjatte.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.242.9]) by esealnt613.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id N8XJDSFN; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 17:34:13 +0200 Received: from sw.ericsson.se (prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se [153.88.240.43]) by tjatte.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69FYCxa006297; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 17:34:12 +0200 (MEST) Received: from prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h69FV3me029411; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 17:31:03 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from ietfmdomo@localhost) by prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h69FV35A029410; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 17:31:03 +0200 (MET DST) X-Authentication-Warning: prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se: ietfmdomo set sender to owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net using -f Received: from laposte.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr (laposte.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr [192.44.77.17]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h69FV1me029406 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 17:31:01 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from givry.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr (givry.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr [193.52.74.194]) by laposte.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr (8.11.6p2/8.11.6/2003.04.01) with ESMTP id h69FUwR30671; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 17:30:58 +0200 Received: from givry.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr (localhost.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr [127.0.0.1]) by givry.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h69FUFof021981; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 17:30:15 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from dupont@givry.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr) Message-Id: <200307091530.h69FUFof021981@givry.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr> From: Francis Dupont To: Jari Arkko cc: SEND WG Subject: Re: review of draft-ietf-send-ipsec-01.txt (editorials) In-reply-to: Your message of Wed, 09 Jul 2003 15:40:26 +0300. <3F0C0D3A.9030105@kolumbus.fi> Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 17:30:15 +0200 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-milter (http://amavis.org/) at enst-bretagne.fr Sender: owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Precedence: bulk In your previous mail you wrote: > - 3. Neighbor and Router Discovery Overview (comment) > > how the messages should be treated. Where this section and the > original Neighbor Discovery RFCs are in conflict, the original RFCs > take precedence. > > => I have a real concern with this statement. If this section is not > normative, it should be made clearer. I have a proposal: explain that > the section should be an appendix but for clarity it is at this place. Yes, for clarity it needs to be here. How about this: we modify the text as follows: "This section is not normative, and where the original ...". => fine. > - 7.1.2 Authentication Data Format (same) > > chosen transform. For the AH_RSA_Sig transform, the format is as > follows: ^^^^^ > > => missing word? (at least poor wording) "is the following" is better? => IMHO it is (even in French the "is as follows" is not so good :-). Thanks Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr PS: I've detected an ASN.1 error (needed tag) when I read the second document (CGA). I believe the issue is in both so please check this part ASAP. (the issue is SendKeyInformation is a SEQUENCE of two optional elements which have the same type so without a tag a decoder cannot decide which element it gets). -------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this list, send email with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the body to . Archive: http://standards.ericsson.net/lists/ietf-send/maillist.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jari.arkko@lmf.ericsson.se Wed Jul 9 15:09:04 2003 Received: from penguin.al.sw.ericsson.se (penguin-ext.wise.edt.ericsson.se [193.180.251.47]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA15759 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 15:09:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from esealnt613.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.125]) by penguin.al.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/WIREfire-1.6b) with ESMTP id h69J4FGJ007438; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 21:04:15 +0200 (MEST) Received: from tjatte.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.242.9]) by esealnt613.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id N8XJ141P; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 21:04:15 +0200 Received: from sw.ericsson.se (prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se [153.88.240.43]) by tjatte.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69J4Exa008777; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 21:04:14 +0200 (MEST) Received: from prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h69J0ume026660; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 21:00:56 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from ietfmdomo@localhost) by prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h69J0uKU026657; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 21:00:56 +0200 (MET DST) X-Authentication-Warning: prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se: ietfmdomo set sender to owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net using -f Received: from onmo3923.com (node1efb3.a2000.nl [24.132.239.179]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with SMTP id h69J0sme026644 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 21:00:54 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200307091900.h69J0sme026644@sw.ericsson.se> From: "DR.FRANK EFE" Reply-To: frank.efe4@caramail.com To: ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 21:00:46 +0200 Subject: PARTNER NEEDED X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sw.ericsson.se id h69J0tme026654 Sender: owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit CONFIDENTIAL 25 Adefobi Street, Ikoyi Island, Lagos. IFax:17752648168 4/7/2003 ATTN:THE PRESIDENT/CEO FROM:DR. FRANK EFE. Dear Sir, I would like to firstly send to you the best wishes of good health and success in your pursuits particularly through my proposal as contained in this letter. Before going into details of my proposal to you, I must first implore you to treat with the utmost confidentiality as this is required for its success and to have faith in this transaction,for opportunities like this only comes to one once in a life time. My colleagues and I are senior officials of the Federal Government of my country's Contracts Review Panel (CRP) who are interested in diverting some funds that are presently loating in the accounts of the Apex Bank of my country.In order to commence this transaction, we solicit for your assistance to enable us transfer into your nominated account the said floating funds. We are determined to conclude the transfer before the end of this quarter of 2003. The source of the funds are as follows: During the last military regime in my country,government officials set up companies and awarded themselves contracts that were grossly over-invoiced in various ministries and parastatals.The present civilian government set up the Contract Review Panel, which has the mandate to use the instruments of payments made available to it by the decree setting up the panel, to review these contracts and if necessary pay those who are being owed outstanding amounts. My colleagues and I have identified quite a huge sum of these funds which are presently floating in our (Apex)Central Bank ready for disbursement and would like to divert some of it for our own purposes. However, by virtue of our positions as civil servants and members of this panel, we cannot acquire these funds in our names or in the names of companies that are based in my country. I have therefore been mandated,as a matter of trust by my colleagues in the panel, to look for a reliable overseas partner into whose account we can transfer the sum of U.S.$20,500,000.00 (Twenty million, five hundred thousand U.S. dollars).That is why I am seeking your assistance. We have agreed to share the money to be transferred into your account, if you agree with our proposition as follows; (i)25% to the account owner(you). (ii)65% for us (the panel officials). (iii)10% to be used in settling all expenses (by both you and us) incidental to the actualization of this project. We wish to invest our share of the proceeds of this project in foreign stock markets and other viable business till we are ready and able to have access to them without raising any eyebrows here at home. Please note that this transaction is 100% safe and risk-free. We intend to effect the transfer within fourteen (14)banking days from the date of receipt of the following information through the ifax number stated above:Your company's name,address,telephone and fax numbers we will use your company's name to apply for the payment and backdate the award of the contract in favour of your company. We are looking forward to doing this transaction with you and we solicit for your utmost confidentiality in this transaction. I will bring you into a more detailed picture of this transaction when I hear from you.Please get in touch through my IFAX # 17752648168. or email address (frank.efe4@caramail.com) Best regards, DR.FRANK EFE. -------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this list, send email with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the body to . Archive: http://standards.ericsson.net/lists/ietf-send/maillist.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jari.arkko@lmf.ericsson.se Wed Jul 9 15:14:09 2003 Received: from penguin.al.sw.ericsson.se (penguin-ext.wise.edt.ericsson.se [193.180.251.47]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA16273 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 15:14:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from esealnt611.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.121]) by penguin.al.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/WIREfire-1.6b) with ESMTP id h69JCJGJ008153; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 21:12:19 +0200 (MEST) Received: from fnatte.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.242.8]) by esealnt611.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id 3S6H90QJ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 21:14:52 +0200 Received: from sw.ericsson.se (prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se [153.88.240.43]) by fnatte.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h69JCBxR017256; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 21:12:11 +0200 (MEST) Received: from prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h69J9hme027127; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 21:09:43 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from ietfmdomo@localhost) by prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h69J9hsD027126; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 21:09:43 +0200 (MET DST) X-Authentication-Warning: prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se: ietfmdomo set sender to owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net using -f Received: from fridge.docomolabs-usa.com (key1.docomolabs-usa.com [216.98.102.225]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h69J9fme027112 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 21:09:42 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <003601c3464d$aaf75d70$9b6015ac@dclkempt40> From: "James Kempf" To: "Jari Arkko" , "SEND WG" References: <3F0C0E04.1070500@kolumbus.fi> Subject: Re: open issues Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 21:09:46 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Chairs: the current agenda for the meeting is heavily > biased for the discussion of IPsec. vs. ND option discussion. > But there are some other issues as well. Are there any > that deserve to be discussed in the meeting? > We have lots of time. We can schedule some time before the pro/con IPsec discussion for those that don't involve IPsec (like the router certs) and time after for those that do (if we establish concensus for IPsec, if not we can drop it). Can you prepare a couple of presentations around this? jak -------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this list, send email with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the body to . Archive: http://standards.ericsson.net/lists/ietf-send/maillist.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jari.arkko@lmf.ericsson.se Wed Jul 9 21:16:27 2003 Received: from albatross.tn.sw.ericsson.se (albatross-ext.wise.edt.ericsson.se [193.180.251.49]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA01565 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2003 21:16:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from esealnt612.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.118]) by albatross.tn.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/WIREfire-1.6b) with ESMTP id h6A1CsIi008108; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 03:12:54 +0200 (MEST) Received: from fnatte.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.242.8]) by esealnt612.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id NW4V6JHH; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 03:12:53 +0200 Received: from sw.ericsson.se (prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se [153.88.240.43]) by fnatte.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6A1CixR026601; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 03:12:44 +0200 (MEST) Received: from prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h6A19Rme014656; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 03:09:27 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from ietfmdomo@localhost) by prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h6A19QXo014655; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 03:09:26 +0200 (MET DST) X-Authentication-Warning: prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se: ietfmdomo set sender to owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net using -f Received: from yahoo.com (sw74-50-12.adsl.seed.net.tw [211.74.50.12]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h6A19Mme014651 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 03:09:23 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200307100109.h6A19Mme014651@sw.ericsson.se> From: richman@standards.ericsson.net To: ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?B?p1mxTrZppEq5c6dRsnauyaVOoUGwaKXwsPKq96Sjq08=?= Date: 10 Jul 2003 09:02:50 +0800 Expiry-Date: 10 Jul 2003 06:44:07 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_zDCZPFvA_ZQCQjcfB_MA" Sender: owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Precedence: bulk ------=_zDCZPFvA_ZQCQjcfB_MA Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- (This safeguard is not inserted when using the registered version) -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- (This safeguard is not inserted when using the registered version) -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- ------=_zDCZPFvA_ZQCQjcfB_MA Content-Type: text/html X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by fnatte.sw.ericsson.se id h6A1CixR026601 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =B7s=BA=F4=AD=B61

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Archive: http://standards.ericsson.net/lists/ietf-send/maillist.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jari.arkko@lmf.ericsson.se Thu Jul 10 04:36:35 2003 Received: from albatross.tn.sw.ericsson.se (albatross-ext.wise.edt.ericsson.se [193.180.251.49]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA22564 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 04:36:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from esealnt611.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.121]) by albatross.tn.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/WIREfire-1.6b) with ESMTP id h6A8RtIi013274; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:27:55 +0200 (MEST) Received: from tjatte.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.242.9]) by esealnt611.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id 3S62B0XG; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:30:20 +0200 Received: from sw.ericsson.se (prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se [153.88.240.43]) by tjatte.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6A8Rjxa015903; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:27:45 +0200 (MEST) Received: from prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h6A8N2me022492; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:23:02 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from ietfmdomo@localhost) by prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h6A8N22f022491; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:23:02 +0200 (MET DST) X-Authentication-Warning: prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se: ietfmdomo set sender to owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net using -f Received: from laposte.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr (laposte.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr [192.44.77.17]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h6A8Lfme022436 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:21:41 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from givry.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr (givry.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr [193.52.74.194]) by laposte.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr (8.11.6p2/8.11.6/2003.04.01) with ESMTP id h6A8LXR09389; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:21:33 +0200 Received: from givry.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr (localhost.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr [127.0.0.1]) by givry.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h6A8Kiof024041; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:20:45 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from dupont@givry.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr) Message-Id: <200307100820.h6A8Kiof024041@givry.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr> From: Francis Dupont To: Jari Arkko cc: SEND WG , Pekka Nikander Subject: Re: review of draft-ietf-send-ipsec-01.txt (substantial) In-reply-to: Your message of Wed, 09 Jul 2003 15:40:13 +0300. <3F0C0D2D.8020301@kolumbus.fi> Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:20:44 +0200 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-milter (http://amavis.org/) at enst-bretagne.fr Sender: owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Precedence: bulk In your previous mail you wrote: > - same (comment) > > The Authorization Delegation Discovery process does not exclude other > forms of discovering the certificate chains. For instance, during > > => IMHO this is the right place to introduce interaction with AAA systems. > If you'd like to use SEND in 802.11 hot spots, you have to talk about > this! Do you have a specific suggestion regarding the interaction? Do you wish to download certs from the AAA, or what? => you proposal (download certs from the AAA system as a side effect of the network access control) is fine. I think the text is clear that the chain is sent in separate DCAs. => I don't think so: please make clear that there is one cert per DCA. > Recommended default value for the allowed Delta is 3,600 seconds. > > => this is far too large, especially for a single mechanism. Can you justify this? => I never saw one hour delta without a timezone mismatch. Even with poor clocks usually the maximum delta is some minutes. BTW if my proposal is adopted this delta should become the initial delta. > - same (same) > > When an interface is > initialized, a node MUST join securely-solicited-node multicast > address corresponding to each of the IP addresses assigned to the > interface. > > => we need to specify more: what source address for MLD joins for > instance... Yes. Do you have a suggestion? => most implementations use the unspecified address as the source of the joins for the solicited-node address. But you have the choice for the securily-solicited node, I suggest to give the issue to the magma WG as to secure MLD is not a goal here. Thanks Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr -------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this list, send email with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the body to . Archive: http://standards.ericsson.net/lists/ietf-send/maillist.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jari.arkko@lmf.ericsson.se Thu Jul 10 06:24:49 2003 Received: from penguin.al.sw.ericsson.se (penguin-ext.wise.edt.ericsson.se [193.180.251.47]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA25395 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 06:24:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from esealnt612.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.118]) by penguin.al.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/WIREfire-1.6b) with ESMTP id h6AALcGJ003442; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 12:21:38 +0200 (MEST) Received: from tjatte.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.242.9]) by esealnt612.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id NW4V8X32; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 12:21:38 +0200 Received: from sw.ericsson.se (prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se [153.88.240.43]) by tjatte.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6AALbxa026413; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 12:21:37 +0200 (MEST) Received: from prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h6AAIrme007440; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 12:18:53 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from ietfmdomo@localhost) by prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h6AAIrqn007439; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 12:18:53 +0200 (MET DST) X-Authentication-Warning: prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se: ietfmdomo set sender to owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net using -f Received: from fridge.docomolabs-usa.com (key1.docomolabs-usa.com [216.98.102.225]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h6AAIpme007432 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 12:18:52 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <01d301c346cc$afa673e0$636015ac@dclkempt40> From: "James Kempf" To: Subject: ND options v.s. IPsec diiscussion procedure Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 12:18:28 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit So Pekka and I have discussed how we would like to run the ND options v.s. IPsec discussion in Vienna. Here's what we came up with. After Pekka and Jari have given their presentations, we will open the microphones for comments. One microphone will be designated for initial comments. Initial commentators will have 3 min. to make their point, after which the commentator will be asked to move to the followup microphone, if they have additional followup or points to make. Any new commentors who want to follow up can use the initial comment microphone. The point of this procedure is to give everybody who has a point at least 3 min. to make it. When the discussion is completed, we will perfom a concensus call. Now, one problem I've seen in the past with live concensus calls at IETF meetings is that there is often confusion about what the actual question is, and the chairs are often required (perhaps at the prompting of the AD in attendence) to repeat the call several times in order that everybody understands. In the process of repeating the call, the wording changes to the point where, by the end of the call, some people are unclear about what they are being asked to express a preference on. To avoid that kind of confusion, here are the calls that we will make at the SEND meeting, in the order they will be made: Call 1: Should the SEND design be based on ND options instead of IPsec AH? If Yes: Call 2: Should draft-arkko-send-ndopt-00.txt become the basis for the new WG document? If No: Call 2: Should draft-nikander-ipsec-00.txt be used for CGA key management instead of including the key in the AH header as in the current WG draft? The text of the calls will be displayed on the projection screen during the call, so that there is absolutely no ambiguity about what people are being asked to express their preference for. If the preference of the WG is clear from the call at the meeting, we will move forward based on it. If not, we will take the discussion to the list and, after some additional discussion, Pekka and I will make a concluding concensus call, which we will take to be definitive. It goes without saying that people should read the drafts, particularly if you intend to express an opinion during the discussion. Comments? jak -------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this list, send email with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the body to . Archive: http://standards.ericsson.net/lists/ietf-send/maillist.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jari.arkko@lmf.ericsson.se Thu Jul 10 09:25:34 2003 Received: from penguin.al.sw.ericsson.se (penguin-ext.wise.edt.ericsson.se [193.180.251.47]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA01124 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 09:25:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from esealnt611.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.121]) by penguin.al.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/WIREfire-1.6b) with ESMTP id h6ADMVGJ020919; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 15:22:31 +0200 (MEST) Received: from tjatte.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.242.9]) by esealnt611.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id 3S6211NB; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 15:25:05 +0200 Received: from sw.ericsson.se (prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se [153.88.240.43]) by tjatte.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6ADMTxa000231; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 15:22:30 +0200 (MEST) Received: from prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h6ADJ0me000117; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 15:19:00 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from ietfmdomo@localhost) by prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h6ADIxoG000116; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 15:18:59 +0200 (MET DST) X-Authentication-Warning: prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se: ietfmdomo set sender to owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net using -f Received: from standards.ericsson.net (254.c170.ethome.net.tw [202.178.170.254]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with SMTP id h6ADIpme000109 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2003 15:18:54 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200307101318.h6ADIpme000109@sw.ericsson.se> From: =?Big5?B?pEikSKVprLChQqdLuOq++qFCp0u+x776oULCsrPmoUK7tMNQoUKnS7hnvvqhQg==?= <88@ms34.url.com.tw> Subject: =?Big5?B?tbK3+S7BcLf5LrNzwuousU3Cvi6t3cK+LqR1xaout3Om5rd+LrPQt34upVu3+S4=?= Content-Type: text/html Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 17:35:24 +0800 X-Priority: 3 Sender: owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Precedence: bulk

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Archive: http://standards.ericsson.net/lists/ietf-send/maillist.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jari.arkko@lmf.ericsson.se Fri Jul 11 00:05:14 2003 Received: from albatross.tn.sw.ericsson.se (albatross-ext.wise.edt.ericsson.se [193.180.251.49]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA03171 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 00:05:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from esealnt610.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.120]) by albatross.tn.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/WIREfire-1.6b) with ESMTP id h6B42BIi029320; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 06:02:11 +0200 (MEST) Received: from fnatte.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.242.8]) by esealnt610.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id 3S6BVZFG; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 06:03:08 +0200 Received: from sw.ericsson.se (prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se [153.88.240.43]) by fnatte.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B422xR013666; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 06:02:02 +0200 (MEST) Received: from prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h6B3wbme004191; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 05:58:37 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from ietfmdomo@localhost) by prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h6B3wbHf004190; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 05:58:37 +0200 (MET DST) X-Authentication-Warning: prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se: ietfmdomo set sender to owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net using -f Received: from realname ([203.254.224.24]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h6B3wYme004176 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 05:58:35 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from custom-daemon.mailout1.samsung.com by mailout1.samsung.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.05 (built Nov 6 2002)) id <0HHU00K01DPCNS@mailout1.samsung.com> for ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 12:58:25 +0900 (KST) Received: from ep_mmp1 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailout1.samsung.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.05 (built Nov 6 2002)) with ESMTP id <0HHU000CIDPCNT@mailout1.samsung.com> for ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 12:58:24 +0900 (KST) Received: from daniel7209 ([168.219.203.183]) by mmp1.samsung.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.14 (built Mar 18 2003)) with ESMTPA id <0HHU0061ZDPBTD@mmp1.samsung.com> for ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 12:58:24 +0900 (KST) Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 12:58:39 +0900 From: Soohong Daniel Park Subject: RE: ND options v.s. IPsec diiscussion procedure In-reply-to: <01d301c346cc$afa673e0$636015ac@dclkempt40> To: "'James Kempf'" , ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Message-id: <001701c34760$b63f9a80$b7cbdba8@daniel7209> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-priority: Normal Sender: owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I would like to vote both of them. I believe each approach has useful pros and cons for secure neighbor discovery. Also I think the choice depends on operators not WG. Regards Daniel (Soohong Daniel Park) Mobile Platform Lab,SAMSUNG Electronics -----Original Message----- From: owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net [mailto:owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net] On Behalf Of James Kempf Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 7:18 PM To: ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Subject: ND options v.s. IPsec diiscussion procedure So Pekka and I have discussed how we would like to run the ND options v.s. IPsec discussion in Vienna. Here's what we came up with. After Pekka and Jari have given their presentations, we will open the microphones for comments. One microphone will be designated for initial comments. Initial commentators will have 3 min. to make their point, after which the commentator will be asked to move to the followup microphone, if they have additional followup or points to make. Any new commentors who want to follow up can use the initial comment microphone. The point of this procedure is to give everybody who has a point at least 3 min. to make it. When the discussion is completed, we will perfom a concensus call. Now, one problem I've seen in the past with live concensus calls at IETF meetings is that there is often confusion about what the actual question is, and the chairs are often required (perhaps at the prompting of the AD in attendence) to repeat the call several times in order that everybody understands. In the process of repeating the call, the wording changes to the point where, by the end of the call, some people are unclear about what they are being asked to express a preference on. To avoid that kind of confusion, here are the calls that we will make at the SEND meeting, in the order they will be made: Call 1: Should the SEND design be based on ND options instead of IPsec AH? If Yes: Call 2: Should draft-arkko-send-ndopt-00.txt become the basis for the new WG document? If No: Call 2: Should draft-nikander-ipsec-00.txt be used for CGA key management instead of including the key in the AH header as in the current WG draft? The text of the calls will be displayed on the projection screen during the call, so that there is absolutely no ambiguity about what people are being asked to express their preference for. If the preference of the WG is clear from the call at the meeting, we will move forward based on it. If not, we will take the discussion to the list and, after some additional discussion, Pekka and I will make a concluding concensus call, which we will take to be definitive. It goes without saying that people should read the drafts, particularly if you intend to express an opinion during the discussion. Comments? jak -------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this list, send email with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the body to . Archive: http://standards.ericsson.net/lists/ietf-send/maillist.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this list, send email with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the body to . Archive: http://standards.ericsson.net/lists/ietf-send/maillist.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jari.arkko@lmf.ericsson.se Fri Jul 11 02:17:14 2003 Received: from albatross.tn.sw.ericsson.se (albatross-ext.wise.edt.ericsson.se [193.180.251.49]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA17213 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 02:17:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from esealnt612.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.118]) by albatross.tn.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/WIREfire-1.6b) with ESMTP id h6B6CEIi013401; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 08:12:14 +0200 (MEST) Received: from fnatte.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.242.8]) by esealnt612.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id NW4WC9T7; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 08:12:13 +0200 Received: from sw.ericsson.se (prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se [153.88.240.43]) by fnatte.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B6C5xR015784; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 08:12:05 +0200 (MEST) Received: from prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h6B68cme020380; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 08:08:38 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from ietfmdomo@localhost) by prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h6B68cJS020379; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 08:08:38 +0200 (MET DST) X-Authentication-Warning: prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se: ietfmdomo set sender to owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net using -f Received: from fep20-app.kolumbus.fi (fep20-0.kolumbus.fi [193.229.0.47]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h6B68bme020375 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 08:08:37 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from kolumbus.fi ([62.248.149.3]) by fep20-app.kolumbus.fi with ESMTP id <20030711060837.EDHC20713.fep20-app.kolumbus.fi@kolumbus.fi>; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 09:08:37 +0300 Message-ID: <3F0E53CD.6040505@kolumbus.fi> Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 09:06:05 +0300 From: Jari Arkko User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20030225 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Soohong Daniel Park CC: "'James Kempf'" , ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Subject: Re: ND options v.s. IPsec diiscussion procedure References: <001701c34760$b63f9a80$b7cbdba8@daniel7209> In-Reply-To: <001701c34760$b63f9a80$b7cbdba8@daniel7209> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Soohong Daniel Park wrote: > I would like to vote both of them. > I believe each approach has useful pros and cons for > secure neighbor discovery. > Also I think the choice depends on operators not WG. I would not want to implement two different mechanisms. Also, if we do both, then we have to in any case expand the IPsec AH mechanism which has been controversial in the IPsec WG. Finally, as far as I know, there security properties of the ND options approach are at least as good as those of the IPsec approach, very likely better in terms of transition mode etc. So security and functionality -wise the decision seems clear. However, the main benefit of the IPsec approach would be the potential use of the AH (and maybe CGA) header in other applications. --Jari -------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this list, send email with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the body to . Archive: http://standards.ericsson.net/lists/ietf-send/maillist.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jari.arkko@lmf.ericsson.se Fri Jul 11 02:58:31 2003 Received: from penguin.al.sw.ericsson.se (penguin-ext.wise.edt.ericsson.se [193.180.251.47]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA18642 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 02:58:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from esealnt613.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.125]) by penguin.al.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/WIREfire-1.6b) with ESMTP id h6B6tpGJ018497; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 08:55:51 +0200 (MEST) Received: from tjatte.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.242.9]) by esealnt613.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id N8XJP3PL; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 08:55:51 +0200 Received: from sw.ericsson.se (prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se [153.88.240.43]) by tjatte.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6B6toxa013273; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 08:55:50 +0200 (MEST) Received: from prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h6B6qdme027611; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 08:52:39 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from ietfmdomo@localhost) by prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h6B6qdSF027610; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 08:52:39 +0200 (MET DST) X-Authentication-Warning: prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se: ietfmdomo set sender to owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net using -f Received: from fridge.docomolabs-usa.com (key1.docomolabs-usa.com [216.98.102.225]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h6B6qame027605 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 08:52:37 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <010301c34779$07a366f0$586015ac@dclkempt40> From: "James Kempf" To: "Soohong Daniel Park" , References: <001701c34760$b63f9a80$b7cbdba8@daniel7209> Subject: Re: ND options v.s. IPsec diiscussion procedure Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 08:52:40 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Daniel, > I would like to vote both of them. > I believe each approach has useful pros and cons for > secure neighbor discovery. > Also I think the choice depends on operators not WG. > Speaking with my operator hat on, I would actually prefer if the WG did make a decision. In matters of security, having one way of doing something with well understood security properties is better than having two, since it reduces the amount of configuration necessary, and therefore the possibility of misconfiguration. If the security properties are equal, there is no benefit from having a choice from a security standpoint. Other properties might differ, but unless there are clear and very solid differences that don't mitigate against one or the other, I think making a choice is desirable from the standpoint of reducing complexity. jak -------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this list, send email with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the body to . Archive: http://standards.ericsson.net/lists/ietf-send/maillist.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jari.arkko@lmf.ericsson.se Fri Jul 11 06:12:20 2003 Received: from penguin.al.sw.ericsson.se (penguin-ext.wise.edt.ericsson.se [193.180.251.47]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA23719 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 06:12:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from esealnt613.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.125]) by penguin.al.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/WIREfire-1.6b) with ESMTP id h6BAAUGJ005149; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 12:10:30 +0200 (MEST) Received: from fnatte.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.242.8]) by esealnt613.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id N8XJRB0Y; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 12:10:30 +0200 Received: from sw.ericsson.se (prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se [153.88.240.43]) by fnatte.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BAAKxR022102; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 12:10:20 +0200 (MEST) Received: from prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h6BA5eme022237; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 12:05:40 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from ietfmdomo@localhost) by prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h6BA5enN022236; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 12:05:40 +0200 (MET DST) X-Authentication-Warning: prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se: ietfmdomo set sender to owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net using -f Received: from fep20-app.kolumbus.fi (fep20-0.kolumbus.fi [193.229.0.47]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h6BA5dme022232 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 12:05:39 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from kolumbus.fi ([62.248.149.3]) by fep20-app.kolumbus.fi with ESMTP id <20030711100538.FDNM20713.fep20-app.kolumbus.fi@kolumbus.fi>; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 13:05:38 +0300 Message-ID: <3F0E8B5A.2080603@kolumbus.fi> Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 13:03:06 +0300 From: Jari Arkko User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20030225 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SEND WG CC: Tuomas Aura Subject: presentations for IETF #57 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Preliminary versions of my presentations for the monday meeting in IETF #57 can be found below. The first one may be useful in terms of preparing for the AH vs. ND option discussion. It would also be useful if folks took a look at the issue list before the meeting to decide if they have something they want to bring up. AH vs. NDopt: http://www.piuha.net/~jarkko/publications/send/presentations/ietf57_send_ndopt.ppt Other SEND issues: http://www.piuha.net/~jarkko/publications/send/presentations/ietf57_send_issues.ppt Feedback on these is appreciated. --Jari -------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this list, send email with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the body to . Archive: http://standards.ericsson.net/lists/ietf-send/maillist.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jari.arkko@lmf.ericsson.se Fri Jul 11 10:41:53 2003 Received: from penguin.al.sw.ericsson.se (penguin-ext.wise.edt.ericsson.se [193.180.251.47]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA01895 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 10:41:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from esealnt613.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.125]) by penguin.al.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/WIREfire-1.6b) with ESMTP id h6BEdIGJ006382; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 16:39:18 +0200 (MEST) Received: from fnatte.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.242.8]) by esealnt613.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id N8XJT2PS; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 16:39:17 +0200 Received: from sw.ericsson.se (prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se [153.88.240.43]) by fnatte.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BEdDxR000199; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 16:39:13 +0200 (MEST) Received: from prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h6BEZcme027951; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 16:35:38 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from ietfmdomo@localhost) by prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h6BEZcM3027950; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 16:35:38 +0200 (MET DST) X-Authentication-Warning: prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se: ietfmdomo set sender to owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net using -f Received: from mail01 ([206.220.132.33]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h6BEZZme027934; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 16:35:36 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from hkonline.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail01.hkonline.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 Patch 1 (built Aug 19 2002)) with ESMTP id <0HHV000Y36VZW0@mail01.hkonline.com>; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 22:28:58 +0800 (CST) Received: from [216.139.176.84] by mail01.hkonline.com (mshttpd); Fri, 11 Jul 2003 07:28:47 -0700 Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 07:28:47 -0700 From: IBEH YOUNG Subject: REQUEST FOR BUSINESS RELATIONSHIP To: ibeh@hkonline.com Message-id: <30a5f33580.3358030a5f@hkonline.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: iPlanet Messenger Express 5.2 Patch 1 (built Aug 19 2002) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-language: en Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline X-Accept-Language: en Sender: owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT DEAR PARTNER, MY NAME IS DR. IBEH NWACHINEMERE YOUNG, THE MANAGER CREDIT AND FOREIGN BILLS OF ECOBANK OF NIGERIA. I AM WRITING IN RESPECT OF FOREIGN CUSTOMER OF MY BANK WITH ACCOUNT NUMBER 14-255-2004/utb/t WHO DIED IN A PLANE CRASH (ETHIOPIAN AIRLINE 961) WITH OTHER PASSENGERS ABROAD. SINCE THE DEATH OF THIS CUSTOMER, I PERSONALLY HAVE WATCHED WITH KEEN INTEREST TO SEE THE NEXT OF KIN BUT ALL HAS PROVED ABORTIVE AS NO ONE HAS COME TO CLAIM HIS FUNDS OF US$15.5M (FIFTENN MILLION, FIVE HUNDRED THOUSAND UNITED STATES DOLLARS) WHICH HAS BEEN WITH MY BANK FOR A VERY LONG TIME. ON THIS NOTE I DECIDED TO SEEK FOR WHOSE NAME SHALL BE USED AS THE NEXT OF KIN AS NO ONE HAS COME UP TO BE THE NEXT OF KIN. IN VIEW OF THIS I GOT YOUR CONTACT THROUGH MY COUNTRY'S FOREIGN TRADE MISSION AFTER I WAS CONVINCED BY PROVIDENCE THAT YOUR NAME COULD BE USED AS THE NEXT OF KIN. THE REQUEST OF THE FOREIGNER AS A NEXT OF KIN IN THIS BUSINESS IS OCCASIONED BY THE FACT THAT THE CUSTOMER WAS A FOREIGNER AND A NIGERIAN CANNOT STAND AS THE NEXT OF KIN TO A FOREIGNER. I AGREED THAT 30%OF THIS MONEY WILL BE FOR YOU AS A FOREIGN PARTNER IN RESPECT OF PROVIDING AN ACCOUNT, WHILE THE REST WILL BE FOR ME,THEREAFTER, I WILL VISIT YOUR COUNTRY FOR DISBURSEMENT AS I AM ALMOST DUE FOR RETIREMENT. THEREFORE, TO FACILITATE THE IMMEDIATE TRANSFER OF THIS FUND TO YOUR ACCOUNT AS ARRANGED, YOU MUST APPLY FIRST TO THE BANK AS A RELATION TO THE DECEASED INDICATING YOUR BANK NAME, YOUR BANK ACCOUNT NUMBER, YOUR PRIVATE TELEPHONE NUMBER, AND FAX NUMBER FOR EASY COMMUNICATION AND LOCATION WHERE THE MONEY WILL BE REMITTED. UPON THE RECEIPT OF YOUR REPLY, I WILL SEND YOU BY FAX OR E-MAIL THE APPLICATION AND THE NEXT STEP TO TAKE. I WILL NOT FAIL TO BRING TO YOUR NOTICE THAT THIS BUSINESS IS HITCH-FREE AND THAT YOU SHOULD NOT ENTERTAIN ANY FEAR AS THE WHOLE REQUIRED ARRANGEMENT HAS BEEN MADE FOR THE TRANSFER. YOU SHOULD CONTACT ME IMMEDIATELY AS SOON AS YOU RECEIVE THIS LETTER. TRUSTING TO HEAR FROM YOU. YOUR RESPECTFULLY, DR. IBEH NWACHINEMERE YOUNG. PLEASE REPLY TO : ibehnwachinemere@libero.it -------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this list, send email with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the body to . Archive: http://standards.ericsson.net/lists/ietf-send/maillist.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jari.arkko@lmf.ericsson.se Fri Jul 11 11:01:18 2003 Received: from albatross.tn.sw.ericsson.se (albatross-ext.wise.edt.ericsson.se [193.180.251.49]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA02785 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 11:01:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from esealnt611.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.121]) by albatross.tn.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/WIREfire-1.6b) with ESMTP id h6BExBIi024157; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 16:59:11 +0200 (MEST) Received: from tjatte.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.242.9]) by esealnt611.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id 3S62MT43; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 17:01:48 +0200 Received: from sw.ericsson.se (prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se [153.88.240.43]) by tjatte.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BEx9xa022098; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 16:59:09 +0200 (MEST) Received: from prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h6BEttme000192; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 16:55:55 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from ietfmdomo@localhost) by prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h6BEttsZ000191; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 16:55:55 +0200 (MET DST) X-Authentication-Warning: prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se: ietfmdomo set sender to owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net using -f Received: from 2mails1527.com (80.179.100.86.forward.012.net.il [80.179.100.86]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with SMTP id h6BEtbme000181 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 16:55:40 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200307111455.h6BEtbme000181@sw.ericsson.se> From: "Mrs Rose Guei." Reply-To: roseguei2@sify.com To: ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 16:49:57 -0700 Subject: HOW ARE YOU X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6900 DM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sw.ericsson.se id h6BEtsme000188 Sender: owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by tjatte.sw.ericsson.se id h6BEx9xa022098 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Goodday!=20 It is with hope that I write to seek your help in this context.=20 I am Mrs.Rose Guei wife of the former Head Of State of=20 Cote'd Ivoire,Late General Robert Guei who was assassinated on=20 the19th of September 2002 in a military uprising in my country.=20 I got your email address from network directory.I apologize if I=20 have infringed on your privacy.=20 However,since my husband death, I have been thrown into a state=20 of utter confusion, frustration and hopelessness by the present=20 administration of President Laurent Gbagbo. The security agents in=20 the country have subjected me to physical and psychological torture.=20 Subsequently, events in my country has now led to the break up of the=20 country with many displaced individuals including Foreigners. This=20 you would have heard in the news.=20 Unfortunately, loyalist soldiers of the present leader of the=20 country, President Laurent Gbagbo have continued to loot and=20 assassinate those perceived to be against his regime.=20 In view of these,I secretly left my country Cote'd ivoire for the=20 Accra in Ghana to seek asylum.=20 I am using this medium, to humbly approach you for assistance in=20 the resettlement and relocation of my three children and I out of=20 Accra-Ghana where we are temporarily seeking Political Asylum.=20 Besides, I am equally, using this correspondence to seek and=20 request your assistance and cooperation in a sensitive but highly=20 beneficial financial arrangement.=20 Prior to the death of my husband, he deposited a huge amount of=20 money in a consignment in a security company=92s vault overseas. The=20 fact that my husband is Dead and we continue to accumulate huge debts=20 daily as long as this consignment remains in the security company=92s=20 vault, made me decided to get someone reliable to proceed as soon as=20 possible to receive these funds.my plan is to invest the money so as=20 to safeguard my future and that of my children. It is very essential=20 that you understand the kind of trust and confidence I want to put in=20 you. This is an act of desperation on my part, in order not to loose=20 this money.=20 For your reliable assistance, if willing, I will reward you with=20 25% of the money.=20 As soon as you declare your willingness to assist, i shall=20 furnish you with the details and information you will need to=20 accomplish this task.=20 For obvious security reasons, it is imperative that you keep all=20 our communication very secret. 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Archive: http://standards.ericsson.net/lists/ietf-send/maillist.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jari.arkko@lmf.ericsson.se Fri Jul 11 13:32:27 2003 Received: from penguin.al.sw.ericsson.se (penguin-ext.wise.edt.ericsson.se [193.180.251.47]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA07310 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 13:32:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from esealnt611.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.121]) by penguin.al.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/WIREfire-1.6b) with ESMTP id h6BHOTGJ027799; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 19:24:29 +0200 (MEST) Received: from fnatte.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.242.8]) by esealnt611.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id 3S62N3R9; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 19:27:07 +0200 Received: from sw.ericsson.se (prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se [153.88.240.43]) by fnatte.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BHOQxR006284; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 19:24:26 +0200 (MEST) Received: from prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h6BHL8me018943; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 19:21:08 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from ietfmdomo@localhost) by prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h6BHL8SU018942; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 19:21:08 +0200 (MET DST) X-Authentication-Warning: prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se: ietfmdomo set sender to owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net using -f Received: from goodaura.net (205.Red-80-33-137.pooles.rima-tde.net [80.33.137.205]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with SMTP id h6BHKume018911 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 19:21:02 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <49a001c347ce$d465eaf0$1283524c@qywkp> Reply-To: arice@goodaura.net From: arice@goodaura.net To: "Homeowner" Subject: FW: Mortgage Rates At Record Lows... Find Out How Much You Can Save Today Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 14:06:54 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_DF3_8C41_CD6DD551.18F709E8" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_DF3_8C41_CD6DD551.18F709E8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ------=_NextPart_DF3_8C41_CD6DD551.18F709E8 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 PGh0bWw+DQoNCjxoZWFkPg0KPG1ldGEgaHR0cC1lcXVpdj0iQ29udGVudC1U eXBlIiBjb250ZW50PSJ0ZXh0L2h0bWw7IGNoYXJzZXQ9d2luZG93cy0xMjUy Ij4NCjxtZXRhIG5hbWU9IkdFTkVSQVRPUiIgY29udGVudD0iTWljcm9zb2Z0 IEZyb250UGFnZSA0LjAiPg0KPG1ldGEgbmFtZT0iUHJvZ0lkIiBjb250ZW50 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Archive: http://standards.ericsson.net/lists/ietf-send/maillist.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jari.arkko@lmf.ericsson.se Fri Jul 11 18:20:59 2003 Received: from penguin.al.sw.ericsson.se (penguin-ext.wise.edt.ericsson.se [193.180.251.47]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA21085 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 2003 18:20:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from esealnt613.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.125]) by penguin.al.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/WIREfire-1.6b) with ESMTP id h6BMFnGJ016762; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 00:15:49 +0200 (MEST) Received: from fnatte.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.242.8]) by esealnt613.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id N8XJV43A; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 00:15:40 +0200 Received: from sw.ericsson.se (prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se [153.88.240.43]) by fnatte.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6BMFcxR011013; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 00:15:38 +0200 (MEST) Received: from prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h6BMAvme025092; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 00:10:57 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from ietfmdomo@localhost) by prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h6BMAv7Q025091; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 00:10:57 +0200 (MET DST) X-Authentication-Warning: prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se: ietfmdomo set sender to owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net using -f Received: from mail2.microsoft.com (mail2.microsoft.com [131.107.3.124]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h6BM9Zme024966 for ; Sat, 12 Jul 2003 00:09:36 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from INET-VRS-02.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.8.110]) by mail2.microsoft.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Fri, 11 Jul 2003 15:09:34 -0700 Received: from 157.54.6.150 by INET-VRS-02.redmond.corp.microsoft.com (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Fri, 11 Jul 2003 15:09:34 -0700 Received: from red-imc-02.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.9.107]) by inet-hub-05.redmond.corp.microsoft.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Fri, 11 Jul 2003 15:09:34 -0700 Received: from win-imc-01.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com ([157.54.0.39]) by red-imc-02.redmond.corp.microsoft.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Fri, 11 Jul 2003 15:09:33 -0700 Received: from WIN-MSG-10.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com ([157.54.12.82]) by win-imc-01.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Fri, 11 Jul 2003 15:09:32 -0700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.6940.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: DT's review of draft-ietf-send-ipsec-01.txt Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 15:09:31 -0700 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: DT's review of draft-ietf-send-ipsec-01.txt Thread-Index: AcNF+lGP05uzYR0HRNuk3uDry3w7FAB/pO0A From: "Dave Thaler" To: Cc: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Jul 2003 22:09:32.0323 (UTC) FILETIME=[1B13FF30:01C347F9] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sw.ericsson.se id h6BM9bme024971 Sender: owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Jari Arkko writes: > > 4) Section 6.4 says: > > > When the Name Type field is set to 1, the Name field contains the > > > Fully Qualified Domain Name of the trusted root, for example > > > "trustroot.operator.com". > > > > More guidance is needed to prevent interoperability problems. > > Is the string null-terminated (I assume no)? > > Are internationalized domain names legal? What is the encoding? > > (UTF-8? Unicode? ...) > > I see your point. Is there a good example where FQDN usage has > been fully specified? I will defer to others on this question. You might start with RFC 3491, but I have heard some say there are still ambiguities. -Dave -------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this list, send email with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the body to . Archive: http://standards.ericsson.net/lists/ietf-send/maillist.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jari.arkko@lmf.ericsson.se Sun Jul 13 02:00:25 2003 Received: from penguin.al.sw.ericsson.se (penguin-ext.wise.edt.ericsson.se [193.180.251.47]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA13248 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 02:00:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from esealnt611.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.121]) by penguin.al.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/WIREfire-1.6b) with ESMTP id h6D5tVGJ011989; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 07:55:31 +0200 (MEST) Received: from tjatte.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.242.9]) by esealnt611.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id 3S62T9FQ; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 07:58:13 +0200 Received: from sw.ericsson.se (prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se [153.88.240.43]) by tjatte.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6D5tUxa011691; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 07:55:30 +0200 (MEST) Received: from prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h6D5pvme008032; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 07:51:57 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from ietfmdomo@localhost) by prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h6D5pvsr008031; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 07:51:57 +0200 (MET DST) X-Authentication-Warning: prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se: ietfmdomo set sender to owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net using -f Received: from access.com ([211.170.80.242]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with SMTP id h6D5pGme008008 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 07:51:43 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: Reply-To: From: To: Subject: Diabetic & circulation disorders Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 00:28:53 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_907_7A1E_E3C9BAFC.E062EA8D" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_907_7A1E_E3C9BAFC.E062EA8D Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ------=_NextPart_907_7A1E_E3C9BAFC.E062EA8D Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable People who suffer from diabetes and circulation disorders take note=21 = We have the genuine diabetic socks. 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Amherst, OH 44001-0534

Toll Free: 1-888-694-5499 ------=_NextPart_907_7A1E_E3C9BAFC.E062EA8D-- -------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this list, send email with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the body to . Archive: http://standards.ericsson.net/lists/ietf-send/maillist.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jari.arkko@lmf.ericsson.se Sun Jul 13 04:40:58 2003 Received: from albatross.tn.sw.ericsson.se (albatross-ext.wise.edt.ericsson.se [193.180.251.49]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA03656 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 04:40:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from esealnt610.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.120]) by albatross.tn.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/WIREfire-1.6b) with ESMTP id h6D8cwIi028255; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 10:38:58 +0200 (MEST) Received: from fnatte.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.242.8]) by esealnt610.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id 3S6B0VD1; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 10:39:54 +0200 Received: from sw.ericsson.se (prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se [153.88.240.43]) by fnatte.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6D8cfxR003157; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 10:38:41 +0200 (MEST) Received: from prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h6D8Z4me029496; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 10:35:04 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from ietfmdomo@localhost) by prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h6D8Z4WD029494; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 10:35:04 +0200 (MET DST) X-Authentication-Warning: prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se: ietfmdomo set sender to owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net using -f Received: from n97.nomadiclab.com (teldanex.hiit.fi [212.68.5.99]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h6D8Xhme029434 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 10:33:43 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from ericsson.com (polle.local.nikander.com [192.168.0.193]) by n97.nomadiclab.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E1E625 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 11:43:24 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <3F111967.4070007@ericsson.com> Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 10:33:43 +0200 From: Pekka Nikander Reply-To: Pekka Nikander User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030312 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SEND WG Subject: Microsoft SEND IPR statement Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit See http://www.ietf.org/ietf/IPR/microsoft-ipr-draft-ietf-send-cga.txt http://www.ietf.org/ietf/IPR/microsoft-ipr-draft-ietf-send-ipsec.txt --Pekka Nikander -------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this list, send email with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the body to . Archive: http://standards.ericsson.net/lists/ietf-send/maillist.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jari.arkko@lmf.ericsson.se Sun Jul 13 04:52:34 2003 Received: from albatross.tn.sw.ericsson.se (albatross-ext.wise.edt.ericsson.se [193.180.251.49]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA04318 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 04:52:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from esealnt611.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.121]) by albatross.tn.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/WIREfire-1.6b) with ESMTP id h6D8oXIi029229; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 10:50:33 +0200 (MEST) Received: from fnatte.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.242.8]) by esealnt611.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id 3S6243F1; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 10:53:07 +0200 Received: from sw.ericsson.se (prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se [153.88.240.43]) by fnatte.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6D8oMxR003287; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 10:50:22 +0200 (MEST) Received: from prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h6D8kKme001217; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 10:46:20 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from ietfmdomo@localhost) by prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h6D8kJBQ001216; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 10:46:19 +0200 (MET DST) X-Authentication-Warning: prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se: ietfmdomo set sender to owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net using -f Received: from netcore.fi (netcore.fi [193.94.160.1]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h6D8ixme029977 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 10:44:59 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (pekkas@localhost) by netcore.fi (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h6D8iw520836; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 11:44:58 +0300 Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 11:44:57 +0300 (EEST) From: Pekka Savola To: Pekka Nikander cc: SEND WG Subject: Re: Microsoft SEND IPR statement In-Reply-To: <3F111967.4070007@ericsson.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Precedence: bulk On Sun, 13 Jul 2003, Pekka Nikander wrote: > http://www.ietf.org/ietf/IPR/microsoft-ipr-draft-ietf-send-cga.txt > http://www.ietf.org/ietf/IPR/microsoft-ipr-draft-ietf-send-ipsec.txt Excellent news, thanks. I was already looking for my asbestos suit and flamethrower for Monday, but now I don't need to :-)) -- Pekka Savola "You each name yourselves king, yet the Netcore Oy kingdom bleeds." Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings -------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this list, send email with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the body to . Archive: http://standards.ericsson.net/lists/ietf-send/maillist.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jari.arkko@lmf.ericsson.se Sun Jul 13 05:26:32 2003 Received: from albatross.tn.sw.ericsson.se (albatross-ext.wise.edt.ericsson.se [193.180.251.49]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA03655 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 04:40:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from esealnt610.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.120]) by albatross.tn.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/WIREfire-1.6b) with ESMTP id h6D8cTIi028209; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 10:38:29 +0200 (MEST) Received: from tjatte.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.242.9]) by esealnt610.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id 3S6B0VBC; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 10:39:25 +0200 Received: from sw.ericsson.se (prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se [153.88.240.43]) by tjatte.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6D8cJxa012677; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 10:38:19 +0200 (MEST) Received: from prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h6D8Xime029438; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 10:33:44 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from ietfmdomo@localhost) by prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h6D8XisB029436; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 10:33:44 +0200 (MET DST) X-Authentication-Warning: prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se: ietfmdomo set sender to owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net using -f Received: from n97.nomadiclab.com (teldanex.hiit.fi [212.68.5.99]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h6D8WNme029381 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 10:32:23 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from ericsson.com (polle.local.nikander.com [192.168.0.193]) by n97.nomadiclab.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2AD6B25 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 11:42:04 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <3F111917.8010809@ericsson.com> Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 10:32:23 +0200 From: Pekka Nikander Reply-To: Pekka Nikander User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030312 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SEND WG Subject: Vienna Agenda Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit [I have had problems in sending mail to the SEND ML for some time, and I learned only today the probable reason. Let's see if this gets through.] Below is the currently planned agenda for tomorrow's meeting. Most probably there will be some changes to this. --Pekka Nikander Introduction and Agenda Bashing (5 min.) Chairs Draft Status (10 min.) Chairs draft-ietf-send-psreq-03.txt draft-ietf-send-ipsec-01.txt draft-ietf-send-cga-00.txt Implementation Report (20 min.) Pekka, James (for Jon Wood) IPR discussion (10 min) all, with chairs moderating IPsec, IPsec w. CGA Header, or ND options? IPsec w. CGA header (10 min) Pekka ND options (10 min) Jari technical discussion (40 min or until done), all, with James moderating Summary and Way Forward (10 min). Chairs -------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this list, send email with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the body to . Archive: http://standards.ericsson.net/lists/ietf-send/maillist.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jari.arkko@lmf.ericsson.se Sun Jul 13 19:49:02 2003 Received: from penguin.al.sw.ericsson.se (penguin-ext.wise.edt.ericsson.se [193.180.251.47]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA09147 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 19:49:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from esealnt611.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.121]) by penguin.al.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/WIREfire-1.6b) with ESMTP id h6DNjPGJ025401; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 01:45:25 +0200 (MEST) Received: from fnatte.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.242.8]) by esealnt611.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id 3S62X135; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 01:48:10 +0200 Received: from sw.ericsson.se (prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se [153.88.240.43]) by fnatte.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6DNjIxR013852; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 01:45:18 +0200 (MEST) Received: from prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h6DNfrme022831; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 01:41:53 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from ietfmdomo@localhost) by prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h6DNfrC5022830; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 01:41:53 +0200 (MET DST) X-Authentication-Warning: prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se: ietfmdomo set sender to owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net using -f Received: from viban.com (c-24-129-77-237.se.client2.attbi.com [24.129.77.237]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h6DNfome022824 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 01:41:51 +0200 (MET DST) From: support@viban.com To: ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Subject: 4 in 10 can't read in a car Date: 13 Jul 2003 19:41:44 -0400 Message-ID: <20030713194144.511DAD1E9468EC14@viban.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

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Archive: http://standards.ericsson.net/lists/ietf-send/maillist.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jari.arkko@lmf.ericsson.se Tue Jul 15 03:42:25 2003 Received: from albatross.tn.sw.ericsson.se (albatross-ext.wise.edt.ericsson.se [193.180.251.49]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA29963 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 03:42:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from esealnt612.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.118]) by albatross.tn.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/WIREfire-1.6b) with ESMTP id h6F7dCIi002231; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 09:39:12 +0200 (MEST) Received: from tjatte.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.242.9]) by esealnt612.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id NW4W48HB; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 09:39:12 +0200 Received: from sw.ericsson.se (prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se [153.88.240.43]) by tjatte.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F7dBxa019102; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 09:39:11 +0200 (MEST) Received: from prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h6F7Zime023005; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 09:35:44 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from ietfmdomo@localhost) by prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h6F7ZhV4023004; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 09:35:43 +0200 (MET DST) X-Authentication-Warning: prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se: ietfmdomo set sender to owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net using -f Received: from noxmail.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (cyphermail.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca [192.139.46.78]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h6F7Zfme023000 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 09:35:42 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from sandelman.ottawa.on.ca ([2002:51a0:4ed::1]) by noxmail.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (8.11.6p2/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h6F7ZaW13329 (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA (168 bits) verified OK) for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 03:35:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (mcr@localhost) by sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id h6F7ZatK002817 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 09:35:36 +0200 To: SEND WG Subject: some commends on ipsec-01.txt Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 1.8) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 09:35:36 +0200 Message-ID: <2816.1058254536@marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca> From: Michael Richardson Sender: owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Precedence: bulk -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- okay, so I read the draft finally, last night. I look forward to talking about it this morning. These represent a bunch of comments, not all as important as each other. Also, I haven't implemented ND ever myself, so I glazed over on some things that seemed overly detailed to me. 6.5 I see that you specify Authorization Certificates. This is neat. I didn't realize that a document had actually specified how to do them already. Since I don't know any software that actually can deal with, I see this as being a major PITA for people actually trying to deploy this. This is a very practical comment. Probably some examples (including private keys) would be good. 6.6 s/AltSubjectName/SubjectAltName/ ?? 7.1.2 I'd sure like to keep X.509 GOOP out of my VoIP phone. I don't want to open an X.509 war. I will express my total lack of enthusiasm for building ASN.1 processing into ICMPv6. 7.1.2 need to have an example of a signed packet! I'm scared that the ASN.1 that is shown will scare some implementors into putting entire, general ASN.1 parsers into their kernels. I suggest that an appendix map this ASN.1 to real DER bits-and-bytes, such that it is clear what one really has to implement. 7.1.4 miliseconds since Unix epoch. Better, I think, would be to have 1/65536s. I.e. standard seconds since epoch * 64K. Systems that do not keep milisecond counters, can just time()<<16. Many systems have 1/100s counters, etc. This isn't a big deal, but something that jumped out at me. I mean, we are doing RSA validation, so a 64-bit multiply shouldn't scare us. 10.1 how does the router form two sets of link-local addresses? an example would be appreciated. This probably just shows my IPv6 address architecture ignorance, but I'm probably not the only one. 11. While hosts may not have to lots of operations, routers may have to do a lot. While it may seem unlikely that an IPv6 network will be subject to a host-scan (all 2^64 hosts...) that doesn't that script kiddies won't try this, or even understand how big 2^64 is. Slightly smarter ones might to try, for instance, to find all devices from a particular manufacturer that are on a link. If know the IEEE OUI assigned to that manufacturer.. This is a much smaller, 2^24 space. As such, I think that the router will do a *LOT* of work here. You mention pre-computing some pieces, but I think that some more details are needed. 12. I do not see how BITS can cope - it has to be integrated. ] At IETF57 in Wien, Austria | firewalls [ ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works, Ottawa, ON |net architect[ ] mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca http://www.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca/ |device driver[ ] printk("Just another Debian GNU/Linux using, kernel hacking, security guy");[ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Finger me for keys iQCVAwUBPxJD/YqHRg3pndX9AQFTxQP6AiXsntbLjQuROAJHu+q+6T7TK5owpRX/ eHW6GNHGQ+OpQT90U3uw+uttXdAvl08wbBV8jpX5DIFh2wwQSGOT4YLgsxgKPKna 4NrtzsDeT5Z2BnFeaEqZx6D5e5uYIq6am3FT0DhPAbfD6dx7Lbwm2o7mdTRDp7cI qC+ZP/PWrpk= =IFFZ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this list, send email with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the body to . Archive: http://standards.ericsson.net/lists/ietf-send/maillist.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jari.arkko@lmf.ericsson.se Tue Jul 15 03:42:40 2003 Received: from penguin.al.sw.ericsson.se (penguin-ext.wise.edt.ericsson.se [193.180.251.47]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA29983 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 03:42:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from esealnt612.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.118]) by penguin.al.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/WIREfire-1.6b) with ESMTP id h6F7dIGJ010766; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 09:39:18 +0200 (MEST) Received: from tjatte.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.242.9]) by esealnt612.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id NW4W48H9; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 09:39:18 +0200 Received: from sw.ericsson.se (prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se [153.88.240.43]) by tjatte.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F7dHxa019108; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 09:39:17 +0200 (MEST) Received: from prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h6F7aFme023047; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 09:36:15 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from ietfmdomo@localhost) by prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h6F7aFd2023046; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 09:36:15 +0200 (MET DST) X-Authentication-Warning: prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se: ietfmdomo set sender to owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net using -f Received: from noxmail.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (cyphermail.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca [192.139.46.78]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h6F7aDme023042 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 09:36:13 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from sandelman.ottawa.on.ca ([2002:51a0:4ed::1]) by noxmail.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (8.11.6p2/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h6F7a6W13395 (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA (168 bits) verified OK); Tue, 15 Jul 2003 03:36:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (mcr@localhost) by sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id h6F7a5KN002859; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 09:36:06 +0200 To: SEND WG cc: pekka.nikander@ericsson.com Subject: notes Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 1.8) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 09:36:05 +0200 Message-ID: <2858.1058254565@marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca> From: Michael Richardson Sender: owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Precedence: bulk -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- The notes that I took: SEND WG IETF 57 Vienna Monday July 14, 2003. - - Implementation report. (Pekka- FreeBSD) Directly mixing CGA/AH is a bad idea. Takes too long to generate CGA - do not put into kernel. Would fit into PF_KEY okay for AH. - - Implementation report (Wood - Linux) - 2.5 IPsec implementation. - efficiency/modularity - packet processing happens in interrupt context - SEND RSA, ASN.1, cert retrival. - hard to offload AH or extension processing, hard to offload these tasks to kernel thread or userspace. - little work is saved by using IPsec. MCR: 2.5 IPsec does not do crypto-hardware offload. This would likely result in a much cleaner API for Linux. Pekka: maybe someone could do OpenBSD, which has hardware offload already! Hinden: concerned about sec==1/sec==2 for small devices. James: sec==0 is microseconds. Pekka: CGA computation can be offloaded, and only need to be done when you change your public key. - - two IPR claims. - Ericsson released IPRs before IETF56 - Microsoft has released IPRs recently. - no other IPR claims. POLL: is it okay to CGA then? silence from group - okay to use CGA. - - issues in the SEND base document - certificate-only ND protection - MCR: can you explain? Jari: this would be just between hosts, not between routers/hosts. - XXX: maybe we should have the messages, but mandate only that you have NAK - I do not have the certificate chain. later could mean - never! - Osi - agree with the chairs, to drop this now. - Is CGA-only RD protection useful? - heuristic - if the packets seem to be routed, then believe it. - simplify: just keep certificate based RD protection - MCR: maybe the draft should be split up? - James Kempf: 2461 - was not split up. - - with certificates, someone else can say that the default route is "you", and force traffic to you. CGA protects against this. - - discussion of a threat, where one can man-in-the-middle, vs ability to spam a third party. - - certificates prove the prefix, CGA the identity of the router. - - milisecond granularity - MCR - 1/64K seconds. - - - certificate details - attribute certificates - just use the "objecthash" as the issuer in 3281. - Russ Housley - I'm struggling to understand what you want to bind the attribute to. Can someone explain this? - Pekka - you have a chain of ISPs, and you have some higher level ISPs, and delegation of routers. ISP A is tier-1, ISP B is a customer of ISP A (a tier-2), and customer is a third level, and the customer has levels of routers. The name of the ISP is *NOT* important. Only the prefix itself is important! - Russ says his question was not answered. {MCR - I didn't understand the question then either!} - Nobody likes PKCs. - - IPsec or ND options - AD/Jari have proposed moving to ND options - Pekka proposes to move CGA into a seperate extension header. - but first, some discussion rules and goals. RULES: Two microphones - first one for primary comments. - second one for followups. 3 minutes for each initial comment - after that commentator must move to the followup microphone. QUESTIONS 1) if SEND was based on IPsec AH, should we use a) a large AH header carrying the key. b) a seperate CGA and AH headers 2) should SEND be designed on a) IPsec AH, using (a) or (b) from above. b) ND options (draft-arkko-send-ndopt-00.txt) Presentations 1) NDopt-00 2) CGA seperate from AH header. MCR comments: 1) prefer AH philosophically. 2) scope of effort - SEND, or PK-AH, ND as first user. 3) in-line vs SKIP 4) order of processing. - - 2nd guy: difference in functionality. - ndopt- nodes can have clocks that are not-synchronized as well as for AH. Pekka - I believe that the sender can actually say they have no clock, and their risk is in fact theirs. - Erik - generality question. Using CGA/anycast? - CGA/AH protects the wrong address, the address is in fact in the packet somewhere. - Steve Bellovin - says that AH is useless in 1995. has no utility. 2461 didn't do the hard work! Just use "IPsec" is just wrong. Until we do the hard work, it is never clear that it the AH/IPsec solution will work. - Bob Hinden - putting it into ND is easier, simpler transition. Call for consensus: 0 people for (1a) 20 people for (1b) 0 people for (2a) 34 people for (2b) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Finger me for keys iQCVAwUBPxJv94qHRg3pndX9AQFuLgQAybFS3l7KvFzevSufWXDaDa+5mBtQidrb 78HfOZeI4wNLVywx0YCaaBdjQ5fbYVuhcfL1kR1CPsYhswDia/ceXg+MeEs+AqHF 7kJOWQLUR+YY2E8UqD/JvBnKXhHXP4wWXLbTDAuuvdUDK3Kg238W/gTJvl+7BPsw nekj1qF+1Kg= =7Ybm -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this list, send email with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the body to . Archive: http://standards.ericsson.net/lists/ietf-send/maillist.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jari.arkko@lmf.ericsson.se Tue Jul 15 03:43:33 2003 Received: from penguin.al.sw.ericsson.se (penguin-ext.wise.edt.ericsson.se [193.180.251.47]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA00089 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 03:43:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from esealnt613.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.125]) by penguin.al.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/WIREfire-1.6b) with ESMTP id h6F7fjGJ011291; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 09:41:45 +0200 (MEST) Received: from tjatte.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.242.9]) by esealnt613.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id N8XK25WV; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 09:41:36 +0200 Received: from sw.ericsson.se (prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se [153.88.240.43]) by tjatte.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F7fZxa019131; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 09:41:35 +0200 (MEST) Received: from prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h6F7bSme023094; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 09:37:28 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from ietfmdomo@localhost) by prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h6F7bSbo023093; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 09:37:28 +0200 (MET DST) X-Authentication-Warning: prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se: ietfmdomo set sender to owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net using -f Received: from noxmail.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (cyphermail.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca [192.139.46.78]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h6F7a6me023037 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 09:36:07 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from sandelman.ottawa.on.ca ([2002:51a0:4ed::1]) by noxmail.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (8.11.6p2/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h6F7a2W13383 (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA (168 bits) verified OK); Tue, 15 Jul 2003 03:36:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (mcr@localhost) by sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id h6F7a1rn002853; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 09:36:02 +0200 To: jari.arkko@piuha.net cc: ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Subject: [RESEND] some commends on ipsec-01.txt In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 14 Jul 2003 10:05:19 +0300." <3F12562F.2080402@piuha.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 1.8) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 09:36:01 +0200 Message-ID: <2852.1058254561@marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca> From: Michael Richardson Sender: owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Precedence: bulk To: SEND WG Subject: some commends on ipsec-01.txt Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 1.8) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 07:47:44 +0200 Message-ID: <10769.1058161664@marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca> From: Michael Richardson -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- okay, so I read the draft finally, last night. I look forward to talking about it this morning. These represent a bunch of comments, not all as important as each other. Also, I haven't implemented ND ever myself, so I glazed over on some things that seemed overly detailed to me. 6.5 I see that you specify Authorization Certificates. This is neat. I didn't realize that a document had actually specified how to do them already. Since I don't know any software that actually can deal with, I see this as being a major PITA for people actually trying to deploy this. This is a very practical comment. Probably some examples (including private keys) would be good. 6.6 s/AltSubjectName/SubjectAltName/ ?? 7.1.2 I'd sure like to keep X.509 GOOP out of my VoIP phone. I don't want to open an X.509 war. I will express my total lack of enthusiasm for building ASN.1 processing into ICMPv6. 7.1.2 need to have an example of a signed packet! I'm scared that the ASN.1 that is shown will scare some implementors into putting entire, general ASN.1 parsers into their kernels. I suggest that an appendix map this ASN.1 to real DER bits-and-bytes, such that it is clear what one really has to implement. 7.1.4 miliseconds since Unix epoch. Better, I think, would be to have 1/65536s. I.e. standard seconds since epoch * 64K. Systems that do not keep milisecond counters, can just time()<<16. Many systems have 1/100s counters, etc. This isn't a big deal, but something that jumped out at me. I mean, we are doing RSA validation, so a 64-bit multiply shouldn't scare us. 10.1 how does the router form two sets of link-local addresses? an example would be appreciated. This probably just shows my IPv6 address architecture ignorance, but I'm probably not the only one. 11. While hosts may not have to lots of operations, routers may have to do a lot. While it may seem unlikely that an IPv6 network will be subject to a host-scan (all 2^64 hosts...) that doesn't that script kiddies won't try this, or even understand how big 2^64 is. Slightly smarter ones might to try, for instance, to find all devices from a particular manufacturer that are on a link. If know the IEEE OUI assigned to that manufacturer.. This is a much smaller, 2^24 space. As such, I think that the router will do a *LOT* of work here. You mention pre-computing some pieces, but I think that some more details are needed. 12. I do not see how BITS can cope - it has to be integrated. ] At IETF57 in Wien, Austria | firewalls [ ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works, Ottawa, ON |net architect[ ] mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca http://www.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca/ |device driver[ ] printk("Just another Debian GNU/Linux using, kernel hacking, security guy");[ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Finger me for keys iQCVAwUBPxJD/YqHRg3pndX9AQFTxQP6AiXsntbLjQuROAJHu+q+6T7TK5owpRX/ eHW6GNHGQ+OpQT90U3uw+uttXdAvl08wbBV8jpX5DIFh2wwQSGOT4YLgsxgKPKna 4NrtzsDeT5Z2BnFeaEqZx6D5e5uYIq6am3FT0DhPAbfD6dx7Lbwm2o7mdTRDp7cI qC+ZP/PWrpk= =IFFZ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this list, send email with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the body to . Archive: http://standards.ericsson.net/lists/ietf-send/maillist.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jari.arkko@lmf.ericsson.se Tue Jul 15 05:39:51 2003 Received: from albatross.tn.sw.ericsson.se (albatross-ext.wise.edt.ericsson.se [193.180.251.49]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA10708 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 05:39:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from esealnt612.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.118]) by albatross.tn.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/WIREfire-1.6b) with ESMTP id h6F9XJIi001090; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:33:20 +0200 (MEST) Received: from fnatte.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.242.8]) by esealnt612.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id NW4WVXHJ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:33:19 +0200 Received: from sw.ericsson.se (prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se [153.88.240.43]) by fnatte.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6F9X5xR000828; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:33:06 +0200 (MEST) Received: from prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h6F9Tgme006981; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:29:42 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from ietfmdomo@localhost) by prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h6F9TgKV006980; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:29:42 +0200 (MET DST) X-Authentication-Warning: prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se: ietfmdomo set sender to owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net using -f Received: from noxmail.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (cyphermail.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca [192.139.46.78]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h6F9Teme006970 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:29:41 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from sandelman.ottawa.on.ca ([2002:51a0:4ed::1]) by noxmail.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (8.11.6p2/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h6F9TZW14304 (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA (168 bits) verified OK) for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 05:29:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (mcr@localhost) by sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id h6F9TZ0p005877 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:29:35 +0200 To: SEND WG Subject: Re: some commends on ipsec-01.txt In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 15 Jul 2003 09:35:36 +0200." <2816.1058254536@marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 1.8) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:29:34 +0200 Message-ID: <5876.1058261374@marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca> From: Michael Richardson Sender: owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Precedence: bulk -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >>>>> "Michael" == Michael Richardson writes: Michael> okay, so I read the draft finally, last night. I look forward to Michael> talking Michael> about it this morning. Actually, since this email was resent, I actually mean... Sunday night. I.e. before the meeting :-) Michael> 7.1.2 I'd sure like to keep X.509 GOOP out of my VoIP Michael> phone. Michael> I don't want to open an X.509 war. I will express my total Michael> lack of Michael> enthusiasm for building ASN.1 processing into ICMPv6. So, again, do we really need to use ASN.1 to specify the contents of the packet? It looks simple enough structure that we can just write bytes that are involved. ] At IETF57 in Wien, Austria | firewalls [ ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works, Ottawa, ON |net architect[ ] mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca http://www.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca/ |device driver[ ] printk("Just another Debian GNU/Linux using, kernel hacking, security guy");[ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Finger me for keys iQCVAwUBPxPJfIqHRg3pndX9AQFWMQP/b0qJaSOV881mrowO2wVTIk9VhvrshnnL 5qYVAn7iic+8t9rJ5Di6z/Vxp+zuvY24jMVMG2/JNVj3sDTuwECZo9NDISMICvyl Gv7I67m7sPB9gXihtoASVk4ynvWxy0rmeQY89XLsQRmYf46uz6vBVuwCxmno36NJ pOdP0EvyM/c= =U4xJ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this list, send email with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the body to . Archive: http://standards.ericsson.net/lists/ietf-send/maillist.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jari.arkko@lmf.ericsson.se Tue Jul 15 07:58:33 2003 Received: from albatross.tn.sw.ericsson.se (albatross-ext.wise.edt.ericsson.se [193.180.251.49]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA15529 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 07:58:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from esealnt611.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.121]) by albatross.tn.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/WIREfire-1.6b) with ESMTP id h6FBrbIi003914; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 13:53:37 +0200 (MEST) Received: from tjatte.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.242.9]) by esealnt611.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id 3S6JCJ8J; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 13:56:26 +0200 Received: from sw.ericsson.se (prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se [153.88.240.43]) by tjatte.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FBraxa022944; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 13:53:36 +0200 (MEST) Received: from prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h6FBoGme027180; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 13:50:16 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from ietfmdomo@localhost) by prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h6FBoGAX027179; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 13:50:16 +0200 (MET DST) X-Authentication-Warning: prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se: ietfmdomo set sender to owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net using -f Received: from fridge.docomolabs-usa.com (key1.docomolabs-usa.com [216.98.102.225]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h6FBoDme027174 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 13:50:14 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <022101c34ac7$442a8350$0a6015ac@dclkempt40> From: "James Kempf" To: "SEND WG" , "Michael Richardson" References: <5876.1058261374@marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca> Subject: Re: some commends on ipsec-01.txt Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 13:48:44 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > So, again, do we really need to use ASN.1 to specify the contents of the > packet? It looks simple enough structure that we can just write bytes that > are involved. > I'm in favor of this. jak -------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this list, send email with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the body to . Archive: http://standards.ericsson.net/lists/ietf-send/maillist.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jari.arkko@lmf.ericsson.se Tue Jul 15 10:45:22 2003 Received: from penguin.al.sw.ericsson.se (penguin-ext.wise.edt.ericsson.se [193.180.251.47]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA22421 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 10:45:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from esealnt611.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.121]) by penguin.al.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/WIREfire-1.6b) with ESMTP id h6FEgrGJ009588; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 16:42:53 +0200 (MEST) Received: from fnatte.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.242.8]) by esealnt611.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id 3S6JD4QL; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 16:45:33 +0200 Received: from sw.ericsson.se (prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se [153.88.240.43]) by fnatte.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FEgWxR017961; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 16:42:33 +0200 (MEST) Received: from prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h6FEbpme018605; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 16:37:51 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from ietfmdomo@localhost) by prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h6FEbphW018604; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 16:37:51 +0200 (MET DST) X-Authentication-Warning: prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se: ietfmdomo set sender to owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net using -f Received: from n97.nomadiclab.com (teldanex.hiit.fi [212.68.5.99]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h6FEaUme018522 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 16:36:30 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from ericsson.com (polle.local.nikander.com [192.168.0.193]) by n97.nomadiclab.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F48E25 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 17:46:09 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <3F14116E.5080108@ericsson.com> Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 16:36:30 +0200 From: Pekka Nikander Reply-To: Pekka Nikander User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030312 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SEND WG Subject: Preliminary minutes for SEND WG Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Below minutes edited by me, based on the notes by TJ and Michael. Thanks to TJ and Michael for their notes. Please send in your comments ASAP, preferably today, so that I can submit the minutes to the secretariat. --Pekka SEND Working Group Minutes ========================== IETF57, Vienna, Austria Monday, July 14, 9:00 am Minutes produces by the chairs, based on notes taken by TJ Kniveton and Michael Richardson. Thanks to the notetakers. Executive summary ----------------- draft-ietf-send-psreq-01.txt is at the IESG, waiting for review. The working group deciced to move from using IPsec into using ND options. Discussion on some smaller open issues needs to continue at the mailing list. The document editor will revise the document soon, and the plan is to have the next version of protocol draft will be out at the end of August, possibly with some certificates related work to be done. WG last call is expected in October. Moving from IPsec to ND options requires re-chartering. This is OK with the ADs. The IPR holders on CGA have released they IPRs (royalty-free license) on CGA for SEND purposes; CGA is technically almost completed. WG last call is planned in August. Introduction and Agenda Bashing (5 min.) Chairs ----------------------------------------------- Introduction and Agenda Bashing (5 min.) Chairs Draft Status (10 min.) Chairs Implementation Report (20 min.) Pekka, James IPR discussion (10 min) all, with chairs moderating Open issues in draft-ietf-send-ipsec (20 min) Jari IPsec, IPsec w. CGA Header, or ND options? ND options (10 min) Jari IPsec w. CGA header (10 min) Pekka technical discussion (40 min or until done), all with James moderating Summary and Way Forward (10 min). Chairs Draft Status (10 min.) Chairs ----------------------------- draft-ietf-send-psreq-03.txt has been submitted to the IESG at the end of April, intended to be published as an Information RFC. The IESG review has not begun yet. draft-ietf-send-ipsec-01.txt has a number of open issues, the largest of which was to issue of whether to use IPsec or ND options. The issue was resolved, and ND options will be used, as reported below. draft-ietf-send-cga-00.txt is fairly close to be completed, but some details still need discussion at the mailing list. Implementation Report (20 min.) Pekka, James -------------------------------------------- Pekka went over implementation notes for FreeBSD. Basically, they did not get very far before realizing that the WG draft needs some changes. Firstly, directly mixing CGA and AH is a bad idea. There would be a need to change PF_KEY data structure quite a lot. Secondly, doing PK crypto is hard without kernel threads, so PK crypto operations need to be passed to user space (possibly through the revised PF_KEY interface). What comes to the CGA draft, it seems fairly good. It was easy enough to implement an ifconfig extension for CGA configuration. However, generating the modifier must be done with a separate user space tool, since it may take a long time to compute. PF_KEY and ifconfig can be used for communication between the user space and the kernel space. Bigger issue is whether to do PK operations in a kernel thread or at the user space. The code is available by request. James described another implementation, written by Jonathan Wood. It partially implements the WG draft on linux 2.5.x (w/ IPsec for v4 and v6). The focus of the implementation work was replicating what a vendor would implement, and to be conformant with the IPsec RFCs. One of the results is that the WG draft approach would have a major impact on the IPsec fast-path (interrupt context at bottom of driver). RSA, ASN.1, and cert chain retrieval are not realy suitable for the interrupt context. Additionally, the approach would have a high impact on the IPsec transform interface, the existing one in the Linux kernel wouldn't work. Hence, no work would saved by using IPsec because implementation has to be restructured. What comes to CGA, it seems to be ok for kernel use as specified. However, it is best to be implemented with a specialed ASN.1 parser, which leads to losses in extensibility. Performance results are shown on the slides. Summary: The Linux IPsec design is not well suited for PK algorithms; SEND implementation would require restructuring of kernel fast paths. CGA gets good, efficient results (based on Sec parameter). Michael Richardson: Linux 2.5 implementation of IPsec does not support async hardware offload of cryptographic operations. Going to external hw for symmetric crypto, you have to suspend all processing; effectively same problem as doing RSA in user space. May need to re-evaluate the conclusion that there is no advantage of using IPsec, because the Linux hardware acceleration code is < 6-8 months old. The code is not in 2.6; don't know when API will get to usable hw offload. Pekka: Someone might want to implement on OpenBSD which already has hw offload. Regarding second point, with AH just as a PK algorithm (without CGA), there is no need to restructure the kernel transport interface. Bob Hinden: What about people building low-power, slower systems. James: If Sec is 0, it is only microseconds. Bob Hinden: If we want this to be useful everywhere, CPU performance is an issue. Pekka: Hash extension pre-computation has to be done once. So for sec higher than 0, you can offload pre-computation to another node. Don't need to do it again unless you change your public key. IPR discussion (10 min) all, with chairs moderating --------------------------------------------------- Ericsson released IPR before SF IETF. Microsoft has released IPRs about a week ago. These are royalty-free, non-discriminatory licenses. However, do read IPR notes at IETF site for details. As far as the chairs know, there are no other IPR claims. Anyone knowing about IPRs related to draft must inform the IETF. Based on this, the chairs polled on objections on using CGA? (no). The WG decided to go ahead and use CGA. Open issues in draft-ietf-send-ipsec (20 min) Jari -------------------------------------------------- Very good reviews received during the last month. The resulting issues all at the URL shown on slides. Issue #7 - certificate-only ND protection - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Complaint: not well thought out. The authors agree. The authors proposal, based on new information about IPRs, to remove the text of using certificates for ND; just rely on CGA. ND certificates could be added as an extension later. Francis Dupont: Don't believe dropping ND certificates is a good idea. CGA does not provide the same properties. Jari: With certificates, can also ensure this node is a member of this company, etc. Agreed. Michael Richardson: Don't think I understand your proposal. Is it to say I will use a CGA address signed by key, but PK is not authorized by CA. (yes.) I rather we went forward quickly, but I am concerned that req for retrieving cert chains may be significant chain to state machines and operational pieces. Might find ourselves in a bad situation in the future because it may be hard to add later. Jari: Yes, but for discovering routers, we would still use certificate discovery. Just drop it for NS & NAs for now. Rick A.?: Isn't is straight-forward to add a capability in hosts to say no, I don't have a certificate chain. Because you should provide trust chain, but you can give a simple NAK. I don't have a trust chain to give you. At least you know that you got a response. Jari: Current spec has some aspects of that. But some details have not been fully thought out. It's a little tricky with addressing, before ND is complete. Pekka: More practical problem is that we'd like to advance draft, and current text is not specific enough. We'd like to leave it out for now. If anyone in room would like to rewrite? Otherwise we would like to take out. Rick: I'm willing to work on text, either for WG draft or parallel draft. James: Issues with certificate interoperability as well. Pekka Savola: We have to consider scenario where this would give additional protection. Where layer 2 or lower has not authentication to network. So what is the applicability? Pasi Eronen: Agree with chairs that it should be dropped now. Current spec does not say how it should work. So there is no section in draft to remove. James: Some L2 protocols provide certified MAC address. That would be ideal situation for SEND. But Cable Licensing? is only L2 protocol that does that. The WG decision was to remove the ND certificate facility for now. However, if someone (Rick?) produces a separate draft on that, it can be accepted as a WG item. Issue #14: CGA RD protection useful? - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Michael: To me, this seems like worst of both worlds. We have code for both; can't use both; we have to deal with certs in kernel even when we don't want to talk to peers. Don't see optimizations except towards shortest IETF process. Jari: Different problems: ND problem, RD problem. Need slightly different security solution Pekka: Might help on router discovery for ad-hoc networks. But this is not the focus of WG. So dropping this is OK with me. Tuomas: Might make sense to protect, even if you don't have authorization for the router, to prove address ownership. Michael: Any network that doesn't have certificate is an "ad-hoc" network, e.g., this network at Telekom Austria, since DNS was not reloaded on Monday morning. Can't get certificate because they're closed. Maybe we should have more documents: How to protect ND with PK, how to protect RD with PK, how to get PK addressed CGA, how to deal with cert retrieval. We could proceed with getting reviews of some of the pieces. I feel afraid of getting a certificate for my router, because 95% of people won't be able to do that without putting out dollars. James: This is mainly simplicity. CGA with RD doesn't provide a lot of security, just that router is authorized to send packet with the address. Dave: Question is whether threats are significant enough to protect against Pasi: CGA-only RD protection may not be useful, but used with certificates, it might be. Rick: Isn't really secure to use CGA on these things, but you can choose any prefix you like, so it may be possible hijack a prefix. Dave: True, but this is denial of reachability. Rick: Unless you can tunnel to a different link. Tuomas: Using CGA and certs together makes sense, because you may trust router for a prefix, but not to steal IP address of another router on the link. Pekka: Getting feeling we want to use CGA with certs, but what about CGA without certs? We can discuss on the ML. Issue #6 - Millisecond granularity for protecting against replays is not fine enough? - - - - - - - - - - May be future high-speed link where this is problematic. Can decide this is not an issue (1000 messages/s is enough), or change rule that you can still receive during same 1-ms interval, but monotonically increasing. Normally we try to prevent replays, but for ND & RD, replay "attacks" in short amount of time may not be a problem. Pekka: slight difference in semantics of timestamp between ND options and CGA header. In the CGA header approach, the timestamp is a kind of lifetime for the security association, but in ND options, it's just a timestamp. Michael: I would prefer you put 16 bits of decimal-point seconds. So seconds / 64k (50 us). Monotonically increasing seems simpler. Do you really need to produce thousands or millions of ND messages per second? May be a question to mobile phone operators, for rate of movement from one BS to another. Or how fast are trains moving in the future. Jari: Large # of nodes on the same link may cause this. But currently limits on how fast routers respond to router discovery. But I like your suggestion about 64k. Dave: What is resolution? James: Jari will make a suggestion to the list. Issue 14 - Certificate details (James) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Comments from review board - problems using attribute certificates. RFC3281 is a fairly New spec, not a lot of infrastructure in place as with PKC certs. A disadvantage of using PKC certs is that we need a new extension. We would have certificate chain mirroring prefix delegation. Unfortunately, attribute certificate chains not permitted by RFC 3281. However, there seems to be some interest for doing this in BGP or SBGP. Distinguished Names to identify trusted roots. Michael: New code is needed, period. Every single thing requires new code in their CAs. ASN.1 is not that extensible in the real life, as you know if you have written any code. "There is no infrastructure" is a red herring. Reality is that someone is going to write code. Let's write code that the X.509 people have suggested, authorization certs. DNs are not useful. Let's use FQDNs, because we should tell them what to do. Pekka: No opinion about DN vs FQDN, but regarding certs, strongly agree with Michael that we should go with authorization certificates. Use object hash as an issuer (i.e. PK instead of name). Simple change, already there in RFC3281 ASN.1 specification, just need to remove 2 lines from the RFC (the statement that using an object hash as an issuer explicitly forbidden). Russ Housley: I put those lines there; so far I haven't heard a reasonable justification for removing them. I agree with attribute certs, but not convinced that constructing hierarchy is the answer. What structure are you trying to create? What are you trying to find tha attribute certificate to? PK and things you're binding to PK have different lifetimes. So, extension to PKC certs is not good; use attribute certificates. Pekka: Scheme we would like to support is chain of ISPs, with higher-level and lower level ISPs, or even users running their own routers. Chain of attribute certificates based on prefix, sub-prefixes can be delegated down the chain. Name of ISPs doesn't matter to the party doing the verification, just that there's a secure chain of PKs, and that the prefixes properly nest so that the router is authorized to advertise the prefix. Russ: We'll have to talk later. James: Let's take it to the list and talk about it more. I'll generate proposal for options with Jari. No one wants to use PKCs. Anyone support getting rid of attribute certs and going to PKCs? (no). We'll talk about attribute certificates later. IPsec, IPsec w. CGA Header, or ND options? ------------------------------------------ Mostly an architectural issue - should we use IPsec, PK crypto at all for this type of thing? ND options (10 min) Jari - - - - - - - - - - - - - (see slides) Erik Nordmark: Last benefit on slide - can you actually reverse processing, and source is already in your path. Packet is not going to change my state, so I will skip checking security part? Jari: Don't have details on that, but there are potential DoS dangers. PK operations, without knowing whether IP address on other side exists. If everything is on one layer, we can make that sort of scheme as you suggested. James: This is to use ND options, and generic signalling protocol may come out of this, but it would be handled by another WG. CGA header approach for SEND - Pekka - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - (see slides) Discussion starting - - - - - - - - - - Michael: I prefer AH philosophically. Comes down to scope of effort. Is this security neighbor discovery, or public-key motivated AH working group? Issues with IPsec wg are irrelevant. Whether 2461 says to use AH is irrelevant. IPsec didn't reject SKIP because it was in-line, but because it wasn't a real key management protocol that scaled beyond an enterprise. Tried to figure out how to use PK inline, but at the time it didn't work. I would like to see it happen. If this WG goes with ND (i'm sitting on the fence), I believe IPsec should retire AH. IPv6 should remove it from their documents. It clearly is a failure. IESG should understand that AH is unimportant. I will refrain from offering an opinion on which one I like. Pasi: I have a feeling that there's a difference in functionality. ND option allows nodes that have clocks, no clocks, or bad clocks. IPsec/AH requires synchronized clocks, or nobody checks timestamps. Other differences are which is easier to implement. Certainly ND options, so I prefer that. Pekka: I disagree about timestamps. Sender is providing timestamp, so sender may say that I don't have a clock. Sender is the one at risk, so it can choose whether to put timestamp. Erik: Comment about generality. Using MLD for anycast. CGA-based anycast addresses could allow you to apply same technique. IP address you're protecting is not source address, but one in payload. CGA+AH would look at wrong address. There might be slight differences in generality. Steve Bellovin: I sent out first message calling AH useless in 1995. It was largely kept alive for things in IPv6. I'm not going to tell IPsec wg to get rid of it; there's enough sentiment. (aside from Bob H. - we thought you said we had to use it) Steve Bellovin: lesson learned of 2461 - unless you do hard work of making sure it works, you can't be sure it will apply. Packet signing -- unless you do work of figuring out how to do it, it may not work. Using generality of AH here might not get you generality anywhere else. Don't use that as a consideration. Bob Hinden: Idon't have a strong opinion on two approaches. Sounds like putting it in ND has an easier transition. You're going to have to have a mixed environment for this to get useage. James: Follow up discussion on timestamp? (no) Consensus call (see slides): Question 1: (A) no one raised hand. (B) 20 raised hands. Question 2: (A) no raised hands. (B) 34 raised hands. Will move forward with draft-arkko-send-ndopt-00. Erik: What has been learned by looking at applying IPsec here would be good to get that written down. James: Pekka and Jari have a paper relating to this, perhaps they could submit it to IPsec wg. After IETF, we'll do a last call on the CGA draft, also submit to SAAG. Will continue with ND options, send to review group and IPv6 group. Not clear if we'll meet at next IETF; depends on whether issues come up. Currently on-track for original goal to finish within a year. -------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this list, send email with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the body to . Archive: http://standards.ericsson.net/lists/ietf-send/maillist.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jari.arkko@lmf.ericsson.se Tue Jul 15 11:24:03 2003 Received: from penguin.al.sw.ericsson.se (penguin-ext.wise.edt.ericsson.se [193.180.251.47]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA24006 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:24:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from esealnt612.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.118]) by penguin.al.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/WIREfire-1.6b) with ESMTP id h6FFKaGJ016029; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 17:20:36 +0200 (MEST) Received: from tjatte.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.242.9]) by esealnt612.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id NW4WX791; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 17:20:27 +0200 Received: from sw.ericsson.se (prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se [153.88.240.43]) by tjatte.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6FFKQxa005327; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 17:20:26 +0200 (MEST) Received: from prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h6FFGSme023979; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 17:16:28 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from ietfmdomo@localhost) by prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h6FFGS5N023978; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 17:16:28 +0200 (MET DST) X-Authentication-Warning: prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se: ietfmdomo set sender to owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net using -f Received: from n97.nomadiclab.com (teldanex.hiit.fi [212.68.5.99]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h6FFF7me023081 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 17:15:07 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from ericsson.com (polle.local.nikander.com [192.168.0.193]) by n97.nomadiclab.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9D5525; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 18:24:46 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <3F141A7B.1040102@ericsson.com> Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 17:15:07 +0200 From: Pekka Nikander Reply-To: Pekka Nikander User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030312 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SEND WG , Thomas Narten , Erik Nordmark Subject: IETF57 SEND WG meeting summary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Summary of the SEND WG Meeting at IETF57, Vienna, Austria Monday July 14, 9:00 am Decisions --------- 1. Decided to move to ND options from IPsec. Effectively, draft-ietf-send-ipsec-01.txt will be replaced with draft-arkko-send-ndopts-00.txt. 2. As a result of decision #1, the WG must recharter to remove IPsec from its charter. The ADs agree. 3. Certificate based ND will be removed from the base draft. A separate draft is expected in the future. Action items ------------ AP1. Re-charter AP owner: Chairs Target date: July 18 AP2. ML discussion: Should we allow CGA only ND? (http://www.piuha.net/~jarkko/publications/send/issues/issue14.txt) AP owner: Chairs Target date: to completed before mid August AP3. Suggestion to the ML: Revised timestamp format (http://www.piuha.net/~jarkko/publications/send/issues/issue6.txt) AP owner: Jari Arkko Target date: mid August AP4. Proposal for dealing with AC certificates in RD (http://www.piuha.net/~jarkko/publications/send/issues/issue8.txt) AP owner: James Kempf and Jari Arkko Target date: early September AP5. Next version of draft-ietf-send-cga AP owner: Tuomas Aura Target date: early August AP6. Next version of draft-arkko-send-ndopts, as a WG draft AP owner: Jari Arkko Target date: end of August AP7. WG LC on draft-ietf-send-cga AP owner: Chairs Target date: September AP8. WG LC on draft-ietf-send-ndopts AP owner: Chairs Target date: October AP9. Get a new document editor for draft-arkko-send-ndopts starting from September; Jari Arkko will have an extended leave AP owner: Chairs Target date: beginning of September Charter milestone review ------------------------ Done First draft of draft-ietf-send-psreq-00.txt, the combined Neighbor Discovery threats and trust model drafts. Done Complete selection of a public key scheme. Initial draft of key distribution protocol, draft-ietf-send-ipsec-00.txt. Done Complete draft-ietf-send-psreq-xx.txt and send to IESG for approval. Done Initial draft for CGA, draft-ietf-send-cga-00.txt. Done Intermediate drafts for draft-ietf-send-cga-xx.txt and draft-ietf-send-ipsec-xx.txt submitted to selected reviewers. (This is not marked as done at the charter page, but it doesn't make sense to update it there since we are going to recharter anyway.) Dec 03 Submit draft-ietf-send-cga-xx.txt and draft-ietf-send-ipsec-xx.txt to IESG for approval. Charter review -------------- Need to recharter -- sent separately. -------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this list, send email with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the body to . Archive: http://standards.ericsson.net/lists/ietf-send/maillist.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jari.arkko@lmf.ericsson.se Thu Jul 17 08:29:42 2003 Received: from albatross.tn.sw.ericsson.se (albatross-ext.wise.edt.ericsson.se [193.180.251.49]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA03493 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 08:29:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from esealnt613.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.125]) by albatross.tn.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/WIREfire-1.6b) with ESMTP id h6HCQBIi029167; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 14:26:11 +0200 (MEST) Received: from tjatte.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.242.9]) by esealnt613.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id N8XK50JX; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 14:26:10 +0200 Received: from sw.ericsson.se (prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se [153.88.240.43]) by tjatte.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6HCQ9xa021006; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 14:26:09 +0200 (MEST) Received: from prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h6HCMKme007406; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 14:22:20 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from ietfmdomo@localhost) by prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h6HCMK9b007402; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 14:22:20 +0200 (MET DST) X-Authentication-Warning: prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se: ietfmdomo set sender to owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net using -f Received: from owenboren.com ([64.46.100.61]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with SMTP id h6HCMIme007386 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 14:22:18 +0200 (MET DST) Content-Type: text/plain; From: Owen Boren MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Friend Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:21:35 +0000 Message-ID: <3f1694cf@owenboren.com> Subject: I Need Your Help,I'm Cleaning My Data Base X-Sender-Info: ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net|3|5|1|1 X-Complaints-To: abuse@owenboren.com Sender: owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Precedence: bulk PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO THIS E-MAIL*** Owen Boren owenboren.com Removal instructions are at the bottom of this message. 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Archive: http://standards.ericsson.net/lists/ietf-send/maillist.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jari.arkko@lmf.ericsson.se Fri Jul 18 07:08:24 2003 Received: from penguin.al.sw.ericsson.se (penguin-ext.wise.edt.ericsson.se [193.180.251.47]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA26950 for ; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 07:08:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from esealnt612.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.118]) by penguin.al.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/WIREfire-1.6b) with ESMTP id h6IB5PGJ015405; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 13:05:25 +0200 (MEST) Received: from fnatte.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.242.8]) by esealnt612.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id NW4XKNFN; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 13:05:25 +0200 Received: from sw.ericsson.se (prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se [153.88.240.43]) by fnatte.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6IB5BxR021599; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 13:05:11 +0200 (MEST) Received: from prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h6IB1pme015691; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 13:01:51 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from ietfmdomo@localhost) by prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h6IB1pnH015690; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 13:01:51 +0200 (MET DST) X-Authentication-Warning: prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se: ietfmdomo set sender to owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net using -f Received: from poste9 ([80.248.70.15]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h6IB1Xmf015652 for ; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 13:01:45 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200307181101.h6IB1Xmf015652@sw.ericsson.se> From: mic_d2@zwallet.com Subject: MICHAEL AND CO ! 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As with the case of all organised (sensitive)and conspired DEALS,we solicit for your unreserved confidentiality and utmost secret in this business.We hope to join you in your country for the necessary disburtsment of the fund and to retire peacefully nd live an honourable business life afterwards.There are no risks involved. PLEASE REPLY ASAP. With Regards. Mr.Michael Dohn. alt.email; micdohn@africamail.com -------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this list, send email with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the body to . Archive: http://standards.ericsson.net/lists/ietf-send/maillist.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jari.arkko@lmf.ericsson.se Fri Jul 18 18:34:42 2003 Received: from albatross.tn.sw.ericsson.se (albatross-ext.wise.edt.ericsson.se [193.180.251.49]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA16700 for ; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 18:34:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from esealnt610.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.120]) by albatross.tn.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/WIREfire-1.6b) with ESMTP id h6IMVeIi000327; Sat, 19 Jul 2003 00:31:40 +0200 (MEST) Received: from fnatte.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.242.8]) by esealnt610.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id 366CTQF8; Sat, 19 Jul 2003 00:31:59 +0200 Received: from sw.ericsson.se (prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se [153.88.240.43]) by fnatte.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6IMVdxR004199; Sat, 19 Jul 2003 00:31:39 +0200 (MEST) Received: from prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h6IMS2me010438; Sat, 19 Jul 2003 00:28:02 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from ietfmdomo@localhost) by prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h6IMS2rA010435; Sat, 19 Jul 2003 00:28:02 +0200 (MET DST) X-Authentication-Warning: prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se: ietfmdomo set sender to owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net using -f Received: from tu-tiera. (185-39-89.adsl.terra.cl [200.89.39.185]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with SMTP id h6IMRsme010415 for ; Sat, 19 Jul 2003 00:27:59 +0200 (MET DST) x-esmtp: 0 0 1 Message-ID: <1890105-22003751822232593@tu-tiera> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: "Tu Tierra" X-MSMail-Priority: Normal From: "Tu Tierra" To: "ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net" Subject: PARCELAS PUNTA DE CHOROS O $2.000.000 SOLO JULIO Consulte Facilidades Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 18:02:32 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" Sender: owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Precedence: bulk ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 =20 OFERTA DE INVIERNO PARCELAS PUNTA DE CHOROS=20 =20 CHILE VALOR PARCELA $2=2E000=2E000 =20 CHILE =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 CHILE =20 A solo 120 km al norte de La Serena =20 Parcelas de 5075 m2 =20 Fono 09-7979918 -51-311479 =20 =20 Un Entorno Privilegiado de Flora y Fauna =20 A Minutos de la Caleta de Punta de Choros =20 =20 Escritura Inmediata =20 www=2Etutierra=2Ecl A 2500 Metros de la Playa Grande www=2Etutierra= =2Ecl =20 PROMOCIÓN VENTA DE INVIERNO =20 VALOR PARCELA $2=2E000=2E000 =20 USTED DEFINE EL PIE DIFERENCIA 15 CHEQUES=20 TOME SU CUPO=20 OFERTA HASTA EL 31 DE JULIO =20 FORMULARIO DE CONSULTAS AL CONSULTAR RECIBIRÁ TODA LA INFORMACIÓN DEL LOTEO, FOTO= GRAFÍAS ANTECEDENTES LEGALES, EMPLAZAMIENTO, UBICACIÓN Y ANT= ECEDENTES GENERALES =20 PARCELAS DE AGRADO PUNTA DE CHOROS WWW=2ETUTIERRA=2ECL VENTA@TUTIERRA=2E= CL 09-7979918 SI NO DESEA RECIBIR MAS INFORMACIÓN COMUNIQUESE A ESTE MAIL no d= eseo recibir mas información (Nota: la legislación chilena no contempla el envío de = publicidad por correo electrónico=2E Respetamos la normativa intern= acional que establece que ningún e-mail puede considerarse SPAM si se le estipula a las personas instrucciones pre= cisas de como removerse de esta lista=20 ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Punta de Choros=2E=2E=2E=2EParcelas 5075 M2 Solo $2=2E000=2E000 Con= sulte facilidades =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20
=20 =20 =20
=20
=20

=20= OFERTA DE INVIERNO PARCELAS

PU= NTA=20 DE CHOROS

=20
CHILE
 =20
VALOR=20 PARCELA $2=2E000=2E000
=20
CHILE
=20
CHILE
=20
A=20 solo 120 km al norte de La Serena
=20
Parcelas=20 de 5075 m2
=20
Fono=20 09-7979918 -51-311479
=20
Un=20 Entorno Privilegiado de Flora y Fauna
=20
A=20 Minutos de la Caleta de Punta de Choros
=20
Escritura=20 Inmediata
=20 =20
A=20 2500 Metros de la Playa Grande
 =20
=20
=20
PROMOCIÓN=20 VENTA DE INVIERNO
=20
=20
VALOR=20 PARCELA $2=2E000=2E000
=20
=20

USTED=20 DEFINE EL PIE DIFERENCIA=20 15 CHEQUES

=20
TOME=20 SU CUPO
=20
OFERTA=20 HASTA EL 31 DE JULIO
=20
=20=
=20
AL=20 CONSULTAR RECIBIRÁ TODA LA INFORMACIÓN DEL LOTEO, FO= TOGRAFÍAS=20 ANTECEDENTES LEGALES, EMPLAZAMIENTO, UBICACIÓN Y ANTECEDENT= ES GENERALES
=20
PARCE= LAS=20 DE AGRADO PUNTA DE CHOROS WWW=2ETUTIERRA=2ECL VENTA@TUTIERRA=2ECL 09= -7979918
=20
SI=20 NO DESEA RECIBIR MAS INFORMACIÓN COMUNIQUESE A ESTE MAIL=20 no=20 deseo recibir mas información
=20
(Nota:=20 la legislación chilena no contempla el envío de publ= icidad=20 por correo electrónico=2E Respetamos la normativa internaci= onal que=20 establece que ningún e-mail
puede considerarse SPAM si se le estipula a las personas instrucci= ones=20 precisas de como removerse de esta lista
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- -------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this list, send email with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the body to . Archive: http://standards.ericsson.net/lists/ietf-send/maillist.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jari.arkko@lmf.ericsson.se Sat Jul 19 18:13:44 2003 Received: from penguin.al.sw.ericsson.se (penguin-ext.wise.edt.ericsson.se [193.180.251.47]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA24628 for ; Sat, 19 Jul 2003 18:13:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from esealnt613.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.125]) by penguin.al.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/WIREfire-1.6b) with ESMTP id h6JMAGGJ002316; Sun, 20 Jul 2003 00:10:16 +0200 (MEST) Received: from fnatte.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.242.8]) by esealnt613.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id N8XLL57L; Sun, 20 Jul 2003 00:10:15 +0200 Received: from sw.ericsson.se (prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se [153.88.240.43]) by fnatte.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6JM9xxR023168; Sun, 20 Jul 2003 00:10:00 +0200 (MEST) Received: from prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h6JM6Lme010217; Sun, 20 Jul 2003 00:06:21 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from ietfmdomo@localhost) by prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h6JM6La2010216; Sun, 20 Jul 2003 00:06:21 +0200 (MET DST) X-Authentication-Warning: prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se: ietfmdomo set sender to owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net using -f Received: from mailpride.com ([211.244.214.233]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with SMTP id h6JM65me010193 for ; Sun, 20 Jul 2003 00:06:10 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <77bb01c34e36$6a21b3e0$8f65ad8c@blondguyvbus> Reply-To: blondguyvbus@mailpride.com From: blondguyvbus@mailpride.com To: "Administrator" Subject: Laser Toner For Printers, Faxes, and Copiers. Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 22:43:31 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_66E_182B_92A840BD.0E9958D9" X-Priority: 3 User-Agent: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 118 Sender: owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Precedence: bulk ------=_NextPart_66E_182B_92A840BD.0E9958D9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ------=_NextPart_66E_182B_92A840BD.0E9958D9 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable GT TONER SUPPLIES Laser printer and computer supplies 1

GTTO= NER SUPPLIES
Laser printer and computer supplies
1-888-662-2256
1-866-237-7397


Dont= Miss it!

Save up to = 40% from retail price on laser printer toner cartridges,
copier and fax cartridges.

Hp-Canon-Lexmark-Epson-Panasonic-Apple-Xerox

Order by phone

1-866-237-7397 or  1-888-662-2256<= font face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3D"#808000">

Order by e-mail: 

gt1000@cable.net.co=

E-mail remo= val:

gt1000@cable.net.co=

 

University and/or School purchase orders WELCOME. = ;

= WE ACCEPT ALL MAJOR CREDIT CARDS!

Our cartridge prices are as follows:
(please order by item number)

=
Item

HP

Price
1 9= 2274A Toner Cartridge for LaserJet 4L, 4ML, 4P, 4MP $47= 50
2 C= 4092A Black Toner Cartridge for LaserJet 1100A, ASE, 3200SE $45= 50
2A C= 7115A Toner Cartridge For HP LaserJet 1000, 1200, 3330 $55= 50
2B C= 7115X High Capacity Toner Cartridge for HP LaserJet 1000, 1200, 3330 $65= 50
3 9= 2295A Toner Cartridge for LaserJet II, IID, III, IIID $49= 50
4 9= 2275A Toner Cartridge for LaserJet IIP, IIP+, IIIP $55= 50
5 C= 3903A Toner Cartridge for LaserJet 5P, 5MP, 6P, 6Pse, 6MP, 6Pxi $46= 50
6 C= 3909A Toner Cartridge for LaserJet 5Si, 5SiMX, 5Si Copier, 8000 $92= 50
7 C= 4096A Toner Cartridge for LaserJet 2100, 2200DSE, 2200DTN $72= 50
8 C= 4182X UltraPrecise High Capacity Toner Cartridge for LaserJet 8100 Series= $12= 5.50
9 C= 3906A Toner Cartridge for LaserJet 5L, 5L Xtra, 6Lse, 6L, 6Lxi, 3100se <= /td> $42= 50
9A C= 3906A Toner Cartridge for LaserJet 3100, 3150 $42= 50
10 C= 3900A Black Toner Cartridge for HP LaserJet 4MV, 4V $89= 50
11 C= 4127A Black Toner Cartridge for LaserJet 4000SE, 4000N, 4000T, 4000TN $76= 50
11A C= 8061A Black Laser Toner for HP LaserJet 4100, 4100N $76= 50
11B C= 8061X High Capacity Toner Cartridge for LJ4100, 4100N $85= 50
11C C= 4127X High Capacity Black Cartridge for LaserJet 4000SE,4000N,4000T,4000TN $84= 50
12 9= 2291A Toner Cartridge for LaserJet IIISi, 4Si, 4SiMX $57= 50
13 9= 2298A Toner Cartridge for LaserJet 4, 4 Plus, 4M, 4M Plus, 5, 5se, 5M, 5N $46= 50
14 C= 4129X High Capacity Black Toner Cartridge for LaserJet 5000N $97= 50
15 L= ASERFAX 500, 700 (FX1) $49= 00
16 L= ASERFAX 5000, 7000 (FX2) $54= 00
17 L= ASERFAX (FX3) $49= 00
18 L= ASERFAX (FX4) $49= 00
Item

HP COLOR=

Price
C1 C= 4194a Toner Cartridge, Yellow (color lj 4500/4550 series) $89= 50
C2 C= 4193a Toner Cartridge, Magenta (color lj 4500/4550 series) $89= 50
C3 C= 4192a toner cartridge, cyan (color lj 4500/4550 series) $89= 50
C4 c= 4191a toner cartridge, black (color lj 4500/4550 series) $74= 50
Item

LEXMARK

Price
19 1= 380520 High Yield Black Laser Toner for 4019, 4019E, 4028, 4029, 6, 10, 10L $10= 9.50
20 1= 382150 High Yield Toner for 3112, 3116, 4039-10+, 4049- Model 12L,16R, Optra <= /td> $10= 9.50
21 6= 9G8256 Laser Cartridge for Optra E, E+, EP, ES, 4026, 4026 (6A,6B,6D,6E) = $49= 00
22 1= 3T0101 High Yield Toner Cartridge for Lexmark Optra E310, E312, E312L $89= 00
23 1= 382625 High-Yield Laser Toner Cartridge for Lexmark Optra S (4059) $12= 9.50
24 1= 2A5745 High Yield Laser Toner for Lexmark Optra T610, 612, 614 (4069) $16= 5.00
Item

EPSON

Price
25 S= 051009 Toner Cartridge for Epson EPL7000, 7500, 8000+ $11= 5.50
25A S= 051009 LP-3000 PS 7000 $11= 5.50
26 A= S051011 Imaging Cartridge for ActionLaser-1000, 1500 $99= 50
26A A= S051011 EPL-5000, EPL-5100, EPL-5200 $99= 50
Item

PANASONIC

Price
27 N= ec series 2 models 90 and 95
 		 $10= 9.50
Item

APPLE

Price
28 2= 473G/A Laser Toner for LaserWriter Pro 600, 630, LaserWriter 16/600 PS
 		 $57= 50
29 1= 960G/A Laser Toner for Apple LaserWriter Select, 300, 310, 360 $71= 50
30 M= 2045G/A Toner Cartridge for Laserwriter 300, 320 (74A) $52= 50
31 M= 6002 Toner Cartridge for Laserwriter IINT, IINTX, IISC, IIF, IIG (95A) = $47= 50
31A M= 0089LL/A Toner Cartridge for Laserwriter LS, NT, NTR, SC (75A) $55= 50
32 M= 4683G/A Laser Toner for LaserWriter 12, 640PS $85= 50
Item

CANON

Price
33 F= ax CFX-L3500, CFX-4000 CFX-L4500, CFX-L4500IE & IF FX3 $49= 50
33A L= -250, L-260i, L-300 FX3 $49= 50
33B L= ASER CLASS 2060, 2060P, 4000 FX3  $49= 50
34 L= ASER CLASS 5000, 5500, 7000, 7100, 7500, 6000 FX2 $49= 50
34A L= BP-200V, LBP-8 II, IIR, IIIT, IIIR EP-S $49= 50
35 F= AX 5000 FX2  $49= 50
36 L= ASER CLASS 8500, 9000, 9000L, 9000MS, 9500, 9500 MS, 9500 S FX4  $49= 50
36A F= ax L700,720,760,770,775,777,780,785,790, & L3300 FX1 $49= 50
36B L= -800, L-900 FX4 $49= 50
37 A= 30R Toner Cartridge for PC-6, 6RE, 7, 11, 12 $59= 50
38 E= -40 Toner Cartridge for PC-720, 740, 770, 790,795, 920, 950, 980 $85= 50
38A E= -20 Toner Cartridge for PC-310, 325, 330, 330L, 400, 420, 430 $85= 50
Item

XEROX

Price
39 6= R900 75A $55= 50
40 6= R903 98A $46= 50
41 6= R902 95A $49= 50
42 6= R901 91A $65= 50
43 6= R908 06A $42= 50
44 6= R899 74A $47= 50
45 6= R928 96A $72= 50
46 6= R926 27X $84= 50
47 6= R906 09A $92= 50
48 6= R907 4MV $89= 50
49 6= R905 03A $46= 50

30 Day unlimited warranty included on all products
GT Toner Supplies guarantees these cartridges to be free from defects i= n workmanship and material.

We look forward in doing business with you.

Customer  Satisfaction guaranteed !

If you are ordering by e-mail or c.o.d. please fill out an order
form with the following information:  = ;         

= phone number
company name
first and last name
street address
city, state zip code        


If you are ordering b= y purchase order please fill out an order form
with the following information:       &nb= sp;   

purchase or= der number
phone number
company or school name
shipping address and billing address
city, state zip code        

Order Now

1-866-237-7397 or&nbs= p; 1-888-662-2256<= font face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3D"#808000">

All trade marks and brand names listed above are property of the respec= tive
holders and used for descriptive purposes only.

To view our acrobat catologe click here

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Archive: http://standards.ericsson.net/lists/ietf-send/maillist.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jari.arkko@lmf.ericsson.se Sun Jul 20 20:34:07 2003 Received: from penguin.al.sw.ericsson.se (penguin-ext.wise.edt.ericsson.se [193.180.251.47]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA01910 for ; Sun, 20 Jul 2003 20:34:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from esealnt613.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.125]) by penguin.al.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/WIREfire-1.6b) with ESMTP id h6L0TbGJ020017; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 02:29:37 +0200 (MEST) Received: from fnatte.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.242.8]) by esealnt613.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id N8XLS2GV; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 02:29:36 +0200 Received: from sw.ericsson.se (prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se [153.88.240.43]) by fnatte.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6L0TJxR010044; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 02:29:20 +0200 (MEST) Received: from prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h6L0Pame011991; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 02:25:36 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from ietfmdomo@localhost) by prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h6L0PaqT011990; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 02:25:36 +0200 (MET DST) X-Authentication-Warning: prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se: ietfmdomo set sender to owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net using -f Received: from mindspring.com ([193.158.110.3]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with SMTP id h6L0PWme011986 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 02:25:33 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <8ca701c34f11$917bbdb0$1d650d69@archerins> Reply-To: "Cross" From: "Cross" To: "Business Insurance" Subject: FW: Workers Compensation Crisis in California Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 17:52:17 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_A77_E0EF_7A6CC8DE.88094FB8" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 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Archive: http://standards.ericsson.net/lists/ietf-send/maillist.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jari.arkko@lmf.ericsson.se Mon Jul 21 14:06:39 2003 Received: from penguin.al.sw.ericsson.se (penguin-ext.wise.edt.ericsson.se [193.180.251.47]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA05514 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 14:06:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from esealnt613.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.125]) by penguin.al.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/WIREfire-1.6b) with ESMTP id h6LI4KGJ016684; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 20:04:20 +0200 (MEST) Received: from tjatte.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.242.9]) by esealnt613.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id N8XLZ56W; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 20:04:19 +0200 Received: from sw.ericsson.se (prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se [153.88.240.43]) by tjatte.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LI4Ixa014464; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 20:04:18 +0200 (MEST) Received: from prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h6LI0ome008875; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 20:00:50 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from ietfmdomo@localhost) by prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h6LI0og3008862; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 20:00:50 +0200 (MET DST) X-Authentication-Warning: prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se: ietfmdomo set sender to owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net using -f Received: from mindspring.com (pc1-melt1-3-cust244.nott.cable.ntl.com [62.254.16.244]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with SMTP id h6LI0bme008602 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 20:00:44 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: Reply-To: "McAffee" From: "McAffee" To: "Future Homeowner" Subject: RE: Bad Credit - No Problem - Lower Your Monthly Loan Payment Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 08:25:20 -0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_143_6E92_188F8E6D.C39D2F74" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_143_6E92_188F8E6D.C39D2F74 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ------=_NextPart_143_6E92_188F8E6D.C39D2F74 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 PGh0bWw+DQo8Ym9keSBiZ2NvbG9yPSIjZmZmZmZmIj4NCjx0YWJsZSB3aWR0 aD0iNTAwIiBib3JkZXI9IjAiIGFsaWduPSJjZW50ZXIiIGNlbGxwYWRkaW5n PSIwIiBjZWxsc3BhY2luZz0iMCI+DQogIDx0cj4NCiAgIDx0ZD48aW1nIG5h bWU9ImRlbm5pczFfcjFfYzEiIHNyYz0iaHR0cDovL3d3dy4lNmQtbGEtdCU2 MS0lNjRpLmNvbS5ici9nbS9zd3QvZGVubmlzMV9yMV9jMS5qcGciPjwvdGQ+ DQogIDwvdHI+DQogIDx0cj4NCiAgIDx0ZD48YSBocmVmPSJtYWlsdG86bWFy aW8yQHJpZ2h0dHN0dWZmZi5jb20/c3ViamVjdD1PbmxpbmUlMjBCdXNpbmVz cyUyMFF1b3RlJmJvZHk9UGxlYXNlJTIwY29tcGxldGUlMjB0aGUlMjBpbmZv cm1hdGlvbiUyMGJlbG93JTIwYW5kJTIwdGhlbiUyMHByZXNzJTIwc2VuZCUy MCUwRCUwQSUwQSUwQU5hbWU6JTIwJTBEJTBBJTBBQ29tcGFueTolMjAlMEQl MEElMEFQaG9uZSUyME51bWJlcjolMjAlMEQlMEElMEFTdGF0ZTolMjAlMEQl MEElMEFPdGhlciUyMEluZm86JTIwJTBEJTBBJTBBJTBBJTIwVGhhbmslMjB5 b3UlMjAhIj48aW1nIG5hbWU9ImRlbm5pczFfcjJfYzEiIHNyYz0iaHR0cDov L3d3dy4lNmQtbGEtdCU2MS0lNjRpLmNvbS5ici9nbS9zd3QvZGVubmlzMV9y Ml9jMS5qcGciIGJvcmRlcj0iMCI+PC9hPjwvdGQ+DQogIDwvdHI+DQo8L3Rh YmxlPg0KPHAgYWxpZ249ImNlbnRlciI+X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fPC9wPg0KPHRhYmxlIHdpZHRoPSI2MDAiIGJvcmRlcj0iMCIgYWxp Z249ImNlbnRlciIgY2VsbHNwYWNpbmc9IjAiPg0KICA8dHI+IA0KICAgIDx0 ZD48ZGl2IGFsaWduPSJjZW50ZXIiPjxmb250IHNpemU9IjEiIGZhY2U9IlZl cmRhbmEsIEFyaWFsLCBIZWx2ZXRpY2EsIHNhbnMtc2VyaWYiPldlIA0KICAg ICAgICBkbyBub3Qgd2FudCBhbnlvbmUgdG8gcmVjZWl2ZSBvdXIgbWFpbGlu Z3MgdGhhdCBkbyBub3Qgd2lzaCB0byByZWNlaXZlIA0KICAgICAgICB0aGVt LiBUaGlzIGlzIGEgcHJvZmVzc2lvbmFsIGNvbW11bmljYXRpb24gc2VudCB0 byBwcm9mZXNzaW9uYWxzLiBUbyBjYW5jZWwgDQogICAgICAgIGZyb20gdGhp cyBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QsIERPIE5PVCBSRVBMWSB0byB0aGlzIG1lc3NhZ2Uu IEluc3RlYWQsPHN0cm9uZz4gDQogICAgICAgIDxhIGhyZWY9Im1haWx0bzpt YXJpbzJAcmlnaHR0c3R1ZmZmLmNvbT9zdWJqZWN0PUNhbmNlbCZib2R5PUNh bmNlbCUyMEZ1cnRoZXIlMjBNYWlsaW5ncyI+IA0KICAgICAgICBHTyBIRVJF IDwvYT48L3N0cm9uZz48L2ZvbnQ+PC9kaXY+PC90ZD4NCiAgPC90cj4NCjwv dGFibGU+DQo8L2JvZHk+DQo8L2h0bWw+DQo= ------=_NextPart_143_6E92_188F8E6D.C39D2F74-- -------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this list, send email with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the body to . Archive: http://standards.ericsson.net/lists/ietf-send/maillist.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jari.arkko@lmf.ericsson.se Mon Jul 21 18:09:25 2003 Received: from albatross.tn.sw.ericsson.se (albatross-ext.wise.edt.ericsson.se [193.180.251.49]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA12698 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 18:09:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from esealnt612.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.118]) by albatross.tn.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/WIREfire-1.6b) with ESMTP id h6LM6JIi014336; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 00:06:19 +0200 (MEST) Received: from tjatte.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.242.9]) by esealnt612.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id NW4X9C6B; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 00:06:19 +0200 Received: from sw.ericsson.se (prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se [153.88.240.43]) by tjatte.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6LM6Ixa016984; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 00:06:18 +0200 (MEST) Received: from prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h6LM31me009829; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 00:03:01 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from ietfmdomo@localhost) by prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h6LM30n0009828; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 00:03:00 +0200 (MET DST) X-Authentication-Warning: prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se: ietfmdomo set sender to owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net using -f Received: from hotmail.com ([217.129.183.131]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with SMTP id h6LM1Sme009778 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 00:02:27 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: Reply-To: register_1234@hotmail.com From: register_1234@hotmail.com To: "Everyone" Subject: Here is your information Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 10:52:44 -1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_746_9E1D_E1531C5D.D18815D4" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V10.0.4510 Sender: owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_746_9E1D_E1531C5D.D18815D4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ------=_NextPart_746_9E1D_E1531C5D.D18815D4 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

We take privacy very seriously, and it= is our policy never to send unwanted email messages.
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Archive: http://standards.ericsson.net/lists/ietf-send/maillist.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jari.arkko@lmf.ericsson.se Tue Jul 22 07:30:13 2003 Received: from albatross.tn.sw.ericsson.se (albatross-ext.wise.edt.ericsson.se [193.180.251.49]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA09864 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 07:30:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from esealnt613.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.125]) by albatross.tn.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/WIREfire-1.6b) with ESMTP id h6MBQoG6016970; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 13:26:50 +0200 (MEST) Received: from fnatte.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.242.8]) by esealnt613.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id N8XL0WWA; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 13:26:50 +0200 Received: from sw.ericsson.se (prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se [153.88.240.43]) by fnatte.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6MBQgxR027463; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 13:26:42 +0200 (MEST) Received: from prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h6MBNEme006325; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 13:23:14 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from ietfmdomo@localhost) by prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h6MBND9A006324; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 13:23:13 +0200 (MET DST) X-Authentication-Warning: prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se: ietfmdomo set sender to owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net using -f Received: from netscape1628.com (Bf149.pppool.de [213.7.241.73]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with SMTP id h6MBN2me006317 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2003 13:23:08 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200307221123.h6MBN2me006317@sw.ericsson.se> From: dayzers promo loterij To: ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Reply-To: janzenlotrobert@netscape.net Subject: Congratuations for winning our lottery Date: -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="ec566fa3-fd5c-4a64-a272-bf0c95822205" Sender: owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format --ec566fa3-fd5c-4a64-a272-bf0c95822205 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = DAYZERS = LOTERIJ NL = Postbus = 3313 = 5902 RH = Venlo = The = Netherlands. Ref. Number:22/756/4007 Batch Number: 497001527-AB66 Sir/Madam We are pleased to inform you of the result of the Dayzers Loterij = International programs held on the 30th of May, 2003. Your e-mail address = attached to ticket number 9570015948-6410 with serial number 3648042-510 = drew lucky numbers 4-14-66-71-07-36 which consequently won in the 1st = category, you have therefore been approved for a lump sum pay out of US$ ( = US$7.000.000.00 ) Seven Million United States Dollars to be shared among the = 10 of you in this category.This authomatically qualifies you to personally = receive the sum of ( US$700.000.00 ) Seven Hundred Thousand Dollars only. CONGRATULATIONS! CONGRATULATIONS!! CONGRATULATIONS!!! Due to mix up of some numbers and names, we ask that you keep your winning = information confidential until your claims has been processed and your money = remitted to you. This is part of our security protocol to avoid double = claiming and unwarranted abuse of this program by some participants. All participants were selected through a computer ballot system drawn from = over 68,000 companies and 80,000,000 individual email addresses and names = from all over the world. This promotional program takes place twice in every = six years. This lottery is partly promoted and sponsored by Bill Gates, President of the = World Largest software, we hope with part of your winning you will take part = in our next year (USD$65M) Sixty-five million Dollars international mega = lottery. To file for your claim, please contact our assigned official = agent/claims and duty officer: Mr. JANZEN LOT ROBERT DAYZERS LOTERIJ NL. = janzenlotrobert@netscape.net Direct telephone +31 = 620770197 Remember, all winning must be claimed not later than JULY 28TH 2003. After = this date all unclaimed funds will be included in the next stake.Please note = in order to avoid unnecessary delays and complications,do remember to quote = your reference number and batch numbers in all correspondence. Furthermore, should there be any change of address do inform our agent as = soon as possible. Congratulations once more from our members of staff and = thank you for being successful in our lottery promotional program. Note: Anybody under the age of 18 is automatically disqualified. Sincerely yours, Ms. Lucia Van Dale Lottery Coordinator --ec566fa3-fd5c-4a64-a272-bf0c95822205-- -------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this list, send email with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the body to . Archive: http://standards.ericsson.net/lists/ietf-send/maillist.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jari.arkko@lmf.ericsson.se Wed Jul 23 18:50:33 2003 Received: from penguin.al.sw.ericsson.se (penguin-ext.wise.edt.ericsson.se [193.180.251.47]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA06722 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 18:50:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from esealnt612.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.118]) by penguin.al.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/WIREfire-1.6b) with ESMTP id h6NMi2jG016359; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 00:44:03 +0200 (MEST) Received: from fnatte.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.242.8]) by esealnt612.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id NW4YKX73; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 00:44:02 +0200 Received: from sw.ericsson.se (prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se [153.88.240.43]) by fnatte.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6NMhxxR025058; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 00:43:59 +0200 (MEST) Received: from prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h6NMd5me019802; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 00:39:06 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from ietfmdomo@localhost) by prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h6NMd588019801; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 00:39:05 +0200 (MET DST) X-Authentication-Warning: prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se: ietfmdomo set sender to owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net using -f Received: from RICHARD (45.wb126.snfc.sffca01r18.dsl.att.net [12.99.126.45]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h6NMd3me019795 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 00:39:04 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from mail pickup service by RICHARD with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 15:39:02 -0700 From: To: Subject: REPORT SUBMITTED REGARDING: ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 15:39:02 -0700 X-Priority: 1 X-MSMail-Priority: High Importance: High X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Jul 2003 22:39:02.0937 (UTC) FILETIME=[37674090:01C3516B] Sender: owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Precedence: bulk WORD-OF-MOUTH.ORG REPORT AWARENESS SYSTEM Do not reply to this email; it has been automatically generated. 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Archive: http://standards.ericsson.net/lists/ietf-send/maillist.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jari.arkko@lmf.ericsson.se Wed Jul 23 21:46:44 2003 Received: from penguin.al.sw.ericsson.se (penguin-ext.wise.edt.ericsson.se [193.180.251.47]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA09788 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 21:46:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from esealnt613.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.125]) by penguin.al.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/WIREfire-1.6b) with ESMTP id h6O1fljG026657; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 03:41:47 +0200 (MEST) Received: from tjatte.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.242.9]) by esealnt613.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id N8XMLQX5; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 03:41:47 +0200 Received: from sw.ericsson.se (prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se [153.88.240.43]) by tjatte.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6O1fkxa028652; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 03:41:46 +0200 (MEST) Received: from prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h6O1bIme015141; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 03:37:18 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from ietfmdomo@localhost) by prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h6O1bIjo015140; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 03:37:18 +0200 (MET DST) X-Authentication-Warning: prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se: ietfmdomo set sender to owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net using -f Received: from MAIL6 (45.wb126.snfc.sffca01r18.dsl.att.net [12.99.126.45]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h6O1bFme015136 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 03:37:16 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from mail pickup service by MAIL6 with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 18:36:19 -0700 From: To: Subject: SOMEONE JUST PERFORMED A SEARCH FOR REPORTS ABOUT ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net AT WORD-OF-MOUTH.ORG Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 18:36:19 -0700 X-Priority: 1 X-MSMail-Priority: High Importance: High X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Jul 2003 01:36:19.0609 (UTC) FILETIME=[FB5A9890:01C35183] Sender: owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Precedence: bulk Word-of-Mouth.Org Search Awareness System TO ADD THIS EMAIL ADDRESS TO OUR DO NOT EMAIL LIST CLICK HERE - https://Word-of-Mouth.Org/DNEL.asp?ea=ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Word-of-Mouth.Org is obligated to inform you via email (if possible) that someone has just performed a search for "Word-of-Mouth Reports" about you (ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net) at our website. *Please see link below to view search results. 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Archive: http://standards.ericsson.net/lists/ietf-send/maillist.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jari.arkko@lmf.ericsson.se Wed Jul 23 21:55:19 2003 Received: from albatross.tn.sw.ericsson.se (albatross-ext.wise.edt.ericsson.se [193.180.251.49]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA09922 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 21:55:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from esealnt613.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.125]) by albatross.tn.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/WIREfire-1.6b) with ESMTP id h6O1r7G6012995; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 03:53:07 +0200 (MEST) Received: from fnatte.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.242.8]) by esealnt613.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id N8XMLSKJ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 03:53:07 +0200 Received: from sw.ericsson.se (prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se [153.88.240.43]) by fnatte.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6O1r6xR027391; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 03:53:06 +0200 (MEST) Received: from prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h6O1n0me016789; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 03:49:00 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from ietfmdomo@localhost) by prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h6O1n0e4016786; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 03:49:00 +0200 (MET DST) X-Authentication-Warning: prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se: ietfmdomo set sender to owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net using -f Received: from MAIL6 (45.wb126.snfc.sffca01r18.dsl.att.net [12.99.126.45]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h6O1mwme016778 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 03:48:58 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from mail pickup service by MAIL6 with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 18:48:01 -0700 From: To: Subject: SOMEONE JUST PERFORMED A SEARCH FOR REPORTS ABOUT ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net AT WORD-OF-MOUTH.ORG Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 18:48:01 -0700 X-Priority: 1 X-MSMail-Priority: High Importance: High X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Jul 2003 01:48:01.0734 (UTC) FILETIME=[9DDA5E60:01C35185] Sender: owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Precedence: bulk Word-of-Mouth.Org Search Awareness System TO ADD THIS EMAIL ADDRESS TO OUR DO NOT EMAIL LIST CLICK HERE - https://Word-of-Mouth.Org/DNEL.asp?ea=ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Word-of-Mouth.Org is obligated to inform you via email (if possible) that someone has just performed a search for "Word-of-Mouth Reports" about you (ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net) at our website. *Please see link below to view search results. 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Archive: http://standards.ericsson.net/lists/ietf-send/maillist.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jari.arkko@lmf.ericsson.se Wed Jul 23 21:55:24 2003 Received: from penguin.al.sw.ericsson.se (penguin-ext.wise.edt.ericsson.se [193.180.251.47]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA09938 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 21:55:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from esealnt611.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.121]) by penguin.al.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/WIREfire-1.6b) with ESMTP id h6O1qNjG027523; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 03:52:23 +0200 (MEST) Received: from fnatte.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.242.8]) by esealnt611.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id 3S6K84LT; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 03:55:37 +0200 Received: from sw.ericsson.se (prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se [153.88.240.43]) by fnatte.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6O1qIxR027378; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 03:52:18 +0200 (MEST) Received: from prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h6O1lfme016725; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 03:47:41 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from ietfmdomo@localhost) by prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h6O1lfBL016724; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 03:47:41 +0200 (MET DST) X-Authentication-Warning: prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se: ietfmdomo set sender to owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net using -f Received: from MAIL6 (45.wb126.snfc.sffca01r18.dsl.att.net [12.99.126.45]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h6O1ldme016720 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 03:47:39 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from mail pickup service by MAIL6 with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 18:46:42 -0700 From: To: Subject: SOMEONE JUST PERFORMED A SEARCH FOR REPORTS ABOUT ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net AT WORD-OF-MOUTH.ORG Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 18:46:42 -0700 X-Priority: 1 X-MSMail-Priority: High Importance: High X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Jul 2003 01:46:42.0890 (UTC) FILETIME=[6EDBBAA0:01C35185] Sender: owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Precedence: bulk Word-of-Mouth.Org Search Awareness System TO ADD THIS EMAIL ADDRESS TO OUR DO NOT EMAIL LIST CLICK HERE - https://Word-of-Mouth.Org/DNEL.asp?ea=ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Word-of-Mouth.Org is obligated to inform you via email (if possible) that someone has just performed a search for "Word-of-Mouth Reports" about you (ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net) at our website. *Please see link below to view search results. 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Archive: http://standards.ericsson.net/lists/ietf-send/maillist.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jari.arkko@lmf.ericsson.se Wed Jul 23 22:33:14 2003 Received: from albatross.tn.sw.ericsson.se (albatross-ext.wise.edt.ericsson.se [193.180.251.49]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA09787 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 21:46:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from esealnt611.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.121]) by albatross.tn.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/WIREfire-1.6b) with ESMTP id h6O1frG6012216; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 03:41:53 +0200 (MEST) Received: from tjatte.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.242.9]) by esealnt611.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id 3S6K8TL8; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 03:45:07 +0200 Received: from sw.ericsson.se (prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se [153.88.240.43]) by tjatte.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6O1fqxa028657; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 03:41:52 +0200 (MEST) Received: from prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h6O1b9me015116; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 03:37:09 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from ietfmdomo@localhost) by prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h6O1b91W015115; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 03:37:09 +0200 (MET DST) X-Authentication-Warning: prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se: ietfmdomo set sender to owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net using -f Received: from MAIL6 (45.wb126.snfc.sffca01r18.dsl.att.net [12.99.126.45]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h6O1b6me015111 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 03:37:07 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from mail pickup service by MAIL6 with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 23 Jul 2003 18:36:10 -0700 From: To: Subject: SOMEONE JUST PERFORMED A SEARCH FOR REPORTS ABOUT ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net AT WORD-OF-MOUTH.ORG Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 18:36:10 -0700 X-Priority: 1 X-MSMail-Priority: High Importance: High X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Jul 2003 01:36:10.0359 (UTC) FILETIME=[F5D72870:01C35183] Sender: owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Precedence: bulk Word-of-Mouth.Org Search Awareness System TO ADD THIS EMAIL ADDRESS TO OUR DO NOT EMAIL LIST CLICK HERE - https://Word-of-Mouth.Org/DNEL.asp?ea=ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Word-of-Mouth.Org is obligated to inform you via email (if possible) that someone has just performed a search for "Word-of-Mouth Reports" about you (ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net) at our website. *Please see link below to view search results. 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Archive: http://standards.ericsson.net/lists/ietf-send/maillist.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jari.arkko@lmf.ericsson.se Thu Jul 24 07:32:32 2003 Received: from penguin.al.sw.ericsson.se (penguin-ext.wise.edt.ericsson.se [193.180.251.47]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA02469 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 07:32:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from esealnt610.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.120]) by penguin.al.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/WIREfire-1.6b) with ESMTP id h6OBTkjG003782; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 13:29:46 +0200 (MEST) Received: from tjatte.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.242.9]) by esealnt610.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id 366DTTCW; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 13:30:25 +0200 Received: from sw.ericsson.se (prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se [153.88.240.43]) by tjatte.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6OBTjxa005990; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 13:29:45 +0200 (MEST) Received: from prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h6OBQQme012357; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 13:26:26 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from ietfmdomo@localhost) by prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h6OBQQVV012356; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 13:26:26 +0200 (MET DST) X-Authentication-Warning: prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se: ietfmdomo set sender to owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net using -f Received: from MAIL6 (45.wb126.snfc.sffca01r18.dsl.att.net [12.99.126.45]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h6OBQNme012352 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 13:26:24 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from mail pickup service by MAIL6 with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 04:25:26 -0700 From: To: Subject: WORD-OF-MOUTH.ORG DO NOT EMAIL LIST CONFIRMATION Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 04:25:26 -0700 X-Priority: 1 X-MSMail-Priority: High Importance: High X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Jul 2003 11:25:26.0937 (UTC) FILETIME=[4800D090:01C351D6] Sender: owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Precedence: bulk YOUR EMAIL ADDRESS HAS BEEN ADDED TO OUR DO NOT EMAIL LIST. 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Archive: http://standards.ericsson.net/lists/ietf-send/maillist.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jari.arkko@lmf.ericsson.se Thu Jul 24 19:02:16 2003 Received: from penguin.al.sw.ericsson.se (penguin-ext.wise.edt.ericsson.se [193.180.251.47]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA05397 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 19:02:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from esealnt613.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.125]) by penguin.al.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/WIREfire-1.6b) with ESMTP id h6OMxcjG020387; Fri, 25 Jul 2003 00:59:38 +0200 (MEST) Received: from tjatte.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.242.9]) by esealnt613.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id N8XMSJV6; Fri, 25 Jul 2003 00:59:38 +0200 Received: from sw.ericsson.se (prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se [153.88.240.43]) by tjatte.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6OMxbxa026052; Fri, 25 Jul 2003 00:59:37 +0200 (MEST) Received: from prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se 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Archive: http://standards.ericsson.net/lists/ietf-send/maillist.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jari.arkko@lmf.ericsson.se Fri Jul 25 13:05:18 2003 Received: from penguin.al.sw.ericsson.se (penguin-ext.wise.edt.ericsson.se [193.180.251.47]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA12562 for ; Fri, 25 Jul 2003 13:05:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from esealnt613.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.125]) by penguin.al.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/WIREfire-1.6b) with ESMTP id h6PGpsjG024942; Fri, 25 Jul 2003 18:51:54 +0200 (MEST) Received: from fnatte.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.242.8]) by esealnt613.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id N8XMYGA8; Fri, 25 Jul 2003 18:51:54 +0200 Received: from sw.ericsson.se (prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se [153.88.240.43]) by fnatte.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6PGpjxR025738; Fri, 25 Jul 2003 18:51:45 +0200 (MEST) Received: from prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se 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DQoNCjwvYm9keT4NCg0KPC9odG1sPg0KDQo= ------=_NextPart_AB0_F2D8_40FBD525.88A6F4B7-- -------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this list, send email with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the body to . Archive: http://standards.ericsson.net/lists/ietf-send/maillist.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jari.arkko@lmf.ericsson.se Fri Jul 25 13:16:44 2003 Received: from penguin.al.sw.ericsson.se (penguin-ext.wise.edt.ericsson.se [193.180.251.47]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA12986 for ; Fri, 25 Jul 2003 13:16:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from esealnt611.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.121]) by penguin.al.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/WIREfire-1.6b) with ESMTP id h6PHF0jG026569; Fri, 25 Jul 2003 19:15:00 +0200 (MEST) Received: from tjatte.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.242.9]) by esealnt611.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id 3S6L2QVR; Fri, 25 Jul 2003 19:18:18 +0200 Received: from sw.ericsson.se (prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se [153.88.240.43]) by tjatte.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6PHEwxa012360; Fri, 25 Jul 2003 19:14:58 +0200 (MEST) Received: from prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h6PHBqme013864; Fri, 25 Jul 2003 19:11:52 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from ietfmdomo@localhost) by prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h6PHBqvT013863; Fri, 25 Jul 2003 19:11:52 +0200 (MET DST) X-Authentication-Warning: prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se: ietfmdomo set sender to owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net using -f Received: from smtp2.libero.it (smtp2.libero.it [193.70.192.52]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h6PHBpme013858; Fri, 25 Jul 2003 19:11:51 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from libero.it (193.70.192.75) by smtp2.libero.it (7.0.012) id 3E9BEBBA009E3B59; Fri, 25 Jul 2003 19:04:55 +0200 Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 19:04:51 +0200 Message-Id: Subject: From Charles. MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Sensitivity: 3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 From: "c_d_orman\@libero\.it" To: "c_d_orman" X-XaM3-API-Version: 4.1 (B6) X-type: 0 X-SenderIP: 193.220.188.202 X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sw.ericsson.se id h6PHBpmf013860 Sender: owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by tjatte.sw.ericsson.se id h6PHEwxa012360 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: Charles Dorman Request for assistance. Dear Sir,=20 It is my pleasure to write you after much consideration since telephone c= ommunication can not be suitable enough to communicate to you at first.=20 I am the only son of my father, late Chief Alfred Dorman from KWANATAL ZU= LU in Republic of South Africa (SA). I am 22 years of age.=20 My father was a limited liability Cocoa and Gold merchant in JOHANNESBURG= South Africa before his untimely death after his business trip to Abidja= n, C=F4te d'Ivoire, to negotiate on a cocoa and gold business he wanted t= o invest in Abidjan, C=F4te d'Ivoire.=20 A Week after he came back from Abidjan, he was attacked with my mother by= unknown assassins, which my mother died instantly but my father died aft= er five days in a private hospital on that faithful afternoon.=20 I didn't know that my father was going to leave me after I had lost my mo= ther. But before he gave up the ghost, it was as if he knew he was going = to die. He disclosed to me that he deposited the sum of $15,800,000,00 US= Dollars (FIFTEEN MILLION EIGHT HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS) in a bank here = in Abidjan, C=F4te d'ivoire.That the money was meant for his cocoa and Go= ld company he wanted to establish in Abidjan, C=F4te d'Ivoire though, acc= ording to my father he deposited the money in a confident account of the = bank and he handed to me all the relevant documents of the deposited fund= and instructed me to seek for a reliable and trust worthy business partn= er for my life time investment abroad.=20 Now I have succeeded in locating the bank here in Abidjan, C=F4te d'Ivoir= e and I am soliciting for your assistance to help me to transfer this mon= ey out from Abidjan to your safe account abroad so that we will invest it= in any meaningful lucrative business in your country because this is my = only hope in life.=20 Awaiting anxiously to hear from you so that we can discuss the modalities= of this transaction.=20 Please kindly contact me through email immediately for more discussion.=20 Thanks for your kind attention.=20 Yours sincerely,=20 Charles Dorman. -------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this list, send email with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the body to . Archive: http://standards.ericsson.net/lists/ietf-send/maillist.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jari.arkko@lmf.ericsson.se Fri Jul 25 21:10:13 2003 Received: from penguin.al.sw.ericsson.se (penguin-ext.wise.edt.ericsson.se [193.180.251.47]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA04444 for ; Fri, 25 Jul 2003 21:10:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from esealnt613.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.125]) by penguin.al.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/WIREfire-1.6b) with ESMTP id h6Q17GjG022279; Sat, 26 Jul 2003 03:07:17 +0200 (MEST) Received: from fnatte.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.242.8]) by esealnt613.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id N8XMZZNV; Sat, 26 Jul 2003 03:07:15 +0200 Received: from sw.ericsson.se (prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se [153.88.240.43]) by fnatte.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6Q17DxR003465; Sat, 26 Jul 2003 03:07:14 +0200 (MEST) Received: from prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h6Q13hme015685; Sat, 26 Jul 2003 03:03:43 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from ietfmdomo@localhost) by prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h6Q13hc1015684; Sat, 26 Jul 2003 03:03:43 +0200 (MET DST) X-Authentication-Warning: prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se: ietfmdomo set sender to owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net using -f Received: from mail.jumpy.it (outgoing.jumpy.it [213.215.144.9] (may be forged)) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h6Q13fme015680 for ; Sat, 26 Jul 2003 03:03:41 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from [172.141.248.229] by mail.jumpy.it with HTTP; Sat, 26 Jul 2003 03:02:11 +0200 Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 21:02:11 -0400 Message-ID: <3F1E0D300000200A@mail02.jumpyint.it> From: hyf512@jumpy.it Subject: Secret Gov't Grants For You... To: ieatpopstars@hotmail.com, iejoor37@hotmail.com, iel@microplanet.com.br, ieltjeik@hotmail.com, iemiller@aol.com, ieniminie17@hotmail.com, ienticedsmilez@aol.com, iepe@mindspring.com, iepigeon@ms47.hinet.net, ieppro@aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-15" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sw.ericsson.se id h6Q13fme015681 Sender: owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit = Little-Known Grants, Never Repay = Start A Home-Business and Prosper Pay Off ALL Your Debts College - for YOU or YOUR family members For Almost ANY Worthwhile Reason or Need ANYONE over 18 years old can apply for a Grant. Grants from $500 to $50,000 are possible. NO Credit Checks !!! More Info Click Below: http://grants501.8bit.co.uk/ AOL Users: CLICK_HERE - ________________________________________ Entra nella nuova chat... potrai avere un nick e un profilo solo tuoi! http://www.jumpy.it/homechat.jsp -------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this list, send email with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the body to . Archive: http://standards.ericsson.net/lists/ietf-send/maillist.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jari.arkko@lmf.ericsson.se Sat Jul 26 07:12:23 2003 Received: from albatross.tn.sw.ericsson.se (albatross-ext.wise.edt.ericsson.se [193.180.251.49]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA03720 for ; Sat, 26 Jul 2003 07:12:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from esealnt610.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.120]) by albatross.tn.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/WIREfire-1.6b) with ESMTP id h6QB9hG6012805; Sat, 26 Jul 2003 13:09:43 +0200 (MEST) Received: from fnatte.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.242.8]) by esealnt610.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id 366D9BC8; Sat, 26 Jul 2003 13:10:30 +0200 Received: from sw.ericsson.se (prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se [153.88.240.43]) by fnatte.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6QB9ZxR009500; Sat, 26 Jul 2003 13:09:35 +0200 (MEST) Received: from prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h6QB4nme002217; Sat, 26 Jul 2003 13:04:49 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from ietfmdomo@localhost) by prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h6QB4nAR002216; Sat, 26 Jul 2003 13:04:49 +0200 (MET DST) X-Authentication-Warning: prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se: ietfmdomo set sender to owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net using -f Received: from hal-3.inet.it (hal-3.inet.it [213.92.5.22]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h6QB4lme002212; Sat, 26 Jul 2003 13:04:47 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost [127.0.0.1] by hal-3.inet.it via I-SMTP-4.4.4-442 id 127.0.0.1+UDgH3LWVhQKuhC7IBNGkyI; Sat, 26 Jul 2003 13:03:50 +0200 From: "kennethnkolo@katamail.com" Subject: GOOD RESPONSE Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 11:03:50 +0000 X-Mailer: Katamail Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <127.0.0.1+UDgH3LWVhQKuhC7IBNGkyI@hal-3.inet.it> Sender: owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit NKOLO Consults Nig contact me with this e-mail: kennethnkolo@katamail.com Attn: It is in our search for a reputable person who will assist us in a business transaction that we decided to call on you. We are a consulting company based in Nigeria, we are a chartered Accountant, Financial and investment firm, we also act as local fund managers to our clients. Right now, we have a client who is interested in investing abroad.His areas of interest are in stock market,Aircraft parts,real estate,e.t.c. The clients is a retired Army General in Nigeria Army during the last military regime of Late General Sani Abacha. He served in various departments home and abroad while in active service in Nigeria Army. He realiable told us that he has Twenty Million,United State Dollars only(US$20,000.000) that he deposited in a security and finance company outside the coutry and that, it is with this money he wantto use to start his business. He told us that he is ready to pay 10% of the total amount to you ifyou help him in this business, and another 10% interest of, Annual After Tax Income to you,for handling this business for him. Which you will strongly have absolute control over. Please note that all top army officers from the rank of Bridgadier that serve in the last military Government in Nigeria are not allowed to travel outside the country or run foreign account. If you can handle this project sincerely and we will link you to the General for further discussion. We hope to commence the transaction as soon as we hear from you. Our company name, is NKOLO CONSULT NIG LTD. You can also Contact Me with This alternative E-mail so that we can get back to you as soon as possible: kennthnkolo@post.cz Best regards KENNETH NKOLO-The President - CEO NKOLO CONSULT LTD. -------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this list, send email with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the body to . Archive: http://standards.ericsson.net/lists/ietf-send/maillist.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jari.arkko@lmf.ericsson.se Sat Jul 26 08:18:57 2003 Received: from albatross.tn.sw.ericsson.se (albatross-ext.wise.edt.ericsson.se [193.180.251.49]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA04858 for ; Sat, 26 Jul 2003 08:18:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from esealnt611.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.121]) by albatross.tn.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/WIREfire-1.6b) with ESMTP id h6QCGsG6016962; Sat, 26 Jul 2003 14:16:54 +0200 (MEST) Received: from tjatte.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.242.9]) by esealnt611.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id 3S6LLXZT; Sat, 26 Jul 2003 14:20:15 +0200 Received: from sw.ericsson.se (prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se [153.88.240.43]) by tjatte.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6QCGrxa021352; Sat, 26 Jul 2003 14:16:53 +0200 (MEST) Received: from prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h6QCCLme009736; Sat, 26 Jul 2003 14:12:21 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from ietfmdomo@localhost) by prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h6QCCLsQ009735; Sat, 26 Jul 2003 14:12:21 +0200 (MET DST) X-Authentication-Warning: prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se: ietfmdomo set sender to owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net using -f Received: from fridge.docomolabs-usa.com (key1.docomolabs-usa.com [216.98.102.225]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h6QCCJme009731 for ; Sat, 26 Jul 2003 14:12:20 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <000801c3536f$303bda50$266015ac@dclkempt40> From: "James Kempf" To: Subject: Secure Layer 2 Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 10:37:35 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit IETF is working on a Secure Frame Format (LinkSec) that may solve the residual threats not covered by SEND. See: http://www.ieee802.org/dots.html for more information. jak -------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this list, send email with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the body to . Archive: http://standards.ericsson.net/lists/ietf-send/maillist.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jari.arkko@lmf.ericsson.se Sat Jul 26 08:57:44 2003 Received: from penguin.al.sw.ericsson.se (penguin-ext.wise.edt.ericsson.se [193.180.251.47]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA06043 for ; Sat, 26 Jul 2003 08:57:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from esealnt610.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.120]) by penguin.al.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/WIREfire-1.6b) with ESMTP id h6QCtMjG024431; Sat, 26 Jul 2003 14:55:22 +0200 (MEST) Received: from tjatte.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.242.9]) by esealnt610.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id 366D9KRD; Sat, 26 Jul 2003 14:56:09 +0200 Received: from sw.ericsson.se (prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se [153.88.240.43]) by tjatte.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6QCtLxa021591; Sat, 26 Jul 2003 14:55:21 +0200 (MEST) Received: from prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h6QCoqme014741; Sat, 26 Jul 2003 14:50:52 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from ietfmdomo@localhost) by prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h6QCoqYw014740; Sat, 26 Jul 2003 14:50:52 +0200 (MET DST) X-Authentication-Warning: prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se: ietfmdomo set sender to owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net using -f Received: from mmail3146.com (node-c-6c4f.a2000.nl [62.194.108.79]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with SMTP id h6QConme014736 for ; Sat, 26 Jul 2003 14:50:50 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200307261250.h6QConme014736@sw.ericsson.se> From: mrs mariam sese-seko To: ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Reply-To: richardgordon100@netscape.net Subject: URGENT ASSISTANCE Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 14:52:57 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="cebde580-dc16-4252-a4ad-4f627bfbda86" Sender: owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format --cebde580-dc16-4252-a4ad-4f627bfbda86 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable FROM:MRS. M SESE-SEKO ATTN: I AM MRS. MARIAM SESE-SEKO WIDOW OF LATE PRESIDENT MOBUTU SESE-SEKO OF ZAIRE? NOW KNOWN AS DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC OF CONGO (DRC). I AM MOVED TO WRITE YOU THIS LETTER, THIS WAS IN CONFIDENCE CONSIDERING MY PRESENT CIRCUMSTANCE AND SITUATION. I ESCAPED ALONG WITH MY HUSBAND AND TWO OF OUR SONS TIMOTHY AND BASHER OUT OF DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC OF CONGO (DRC) TO ABIDJAN,COTE D'IVOIRE WHERE MY FAMILY AND I SETTLED, WHILE WE LATER MOVED TO SETTLED IN MORROCO WHERE MY HUSBAND LATER DIED OF CANCER DISEASE. HOWEVER DUE TO THIS SITUATION WE DECIDED TO CHANGED MOST OF MY HUSBAND'S BILLIONS OF DOLLARS DEPOSITED IN SWISS BANK AND OTHER COUNTRIES INTO OTHER FORMS OF MONEY CODED FOR SAFE PURPOSE BECAUSE THE NEW HEAD OF STATE OF (DR) MR LAURENT KABILA HAS MADE ARRANGEMENT WITH THE SWISS GOVERNMENT AND OTHER EUROPEAN COUNTRIES TO FREEZE ALL MY LATE HUSBAND'TREASURES DEPOSITED IN SOME EUROPEAN COUNTRIES. HENCE MY CHILDREN AND I DECIDED LAYING LOW IN AFRICA TO STUDY THE SITUATION TILL WHEN THINGS GETS BETTER, LIKE NOW THAT PRESIDENT KABILA IS DEAD AND THE SON TAKING OVER(JOSEPH KABILA). ONE OF MY LATE HUSBAND'S CHATEAUX IN SOUTHERN FRANCE WAS CONFISCATED BY THE FRENCH GOVERNMENT, AND AS SUCH I HAD TO CHANGE MY IDENTITY SO THAT MY INVESTMENT WILL NOT BE TRACED AND CONFISCATED. I HAVE DEPOSITED THE SUM OF TWENTY FIVE MLLION UNITED STATE DOLLARS (US$25,000,000,00.) WITH A SECURITY COMPANY , FOR SAFEKEEPING. THE FUNDS ARE SECURITY CODED TO PREVENT THEM FROM KNOWING THE CONTENT. WHAT I WANT YOU TO DO IS TO INDICATE YOUR INTEREST THAT YOU WILL ASSIST US BY RECEIVING THE MONEY ON OUR BEHALF IN EUROPE. I WANT YOU TO ASSIST IN INVESTING THIS MONEY, BUT I WILL NOT WANT MY IDENTITY REVEALED. I WILL ALSO WANT TO BUY PROPERTIES AND STOCK IN MULTI-NATIONAL COMPANIES AND TO ENGAGE IN OTHER SAFE AND NON-SPECULATIVE INVESTMENTS. MAY I AT THIS POINT EMPHASIS THE HIGH LEVEL OF CONFIDENTIALITY, WHICH THIS BUSINESS DEMANDS, AND HOPE YOU WILL NOT BETRAY THE TRUST AND CONFIDENCE, WHICH I REPOSE IN YOU IN CONCLUSION, IN THE EVENT YOU ARE INTERESTED TO ASSIST US I WILL LIKE YOU TO CONTACT MY LAWYER WHO I HAVE STATIONED IN HOLLAND TO WITHNESS THE TRANSACTION TO IS CONCLUTION.YOU CAN REACH HIM ON IS DIRECT LINE WHICH IS +31-630-655-043 VIA MAIL RICHARDGORDON100@NETSCAPE.NET HIS NAME IS RICHARD GORDON AND I HAVE THE FULL TRUST IN HIM. I SINCERELY WILL APPRECIATE YOUR ACKNOWLEDGMENT AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. BEST REGARDS, MRS M. SESE SEKO. --cebde580-dc16-4252-a4ad-4f627bfbda86-- -------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this list, send email with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the body to . Archive: http://standards.ericsson.net/lists/ietf-send/maillist.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jari.arkko@lmf.ericsson.se Sat Jul 26 13:51:59 2003 Received: from albatross.tn.sw.ericsson.se (albatross-ext.wise.edt.ericsson.se [193.180.251.49]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA14063 for ; Sat, 26 Jul 2003 13:51:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from esealnt610.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.120]) by albatross.tn.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/WIREfire-1.6b) with ESMTP id h6QHlYG6004792; Sat, 26 Jul 2003 19:47:35 +0200 (MEST) Received: from tjatte.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.242.9]) by esealnt610.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id 366D0AD1; Sat, 26 Jul 2003 19:48:22 +0200 Received: from sw.ericsson.se (prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se [153.88.240.43]) by tjatte.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6QHlXxa023754; Sat, 26 Jul 2003 19:47:33 +0200 (MEST) Received: from prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h6QHglme020533; Sat, 26 Jul 2003 19:42:47 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from ietfmdomo@localhost) by prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h6QHglNW020530; Sat, 26 Jul 2003 19:42:47 +0200 (MET DST) X-Authentication-Warning: prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se: ietfmdomo set sender to owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net using -f Received: from netscape2366.com ([62.58.168.62]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with SMTP id h6QHgime020508 for ; Sat, 26 Jul 2003 19:42:45 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200307261742.h6QHgime020508@sw.ericsson.se> From: "PETERS BAHTAN." To: ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Reply-To: bahtan2002@netscape.net Subject: PLEASE I NEED YOUR HELP. Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 19:42:31 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="8a098e69-ba61-44dc-853a-36fb29d33cee" Sender: owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format --8a098e69-ba61-44dc-853a-36fb29d33cee Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Friend, You may be surprise to receive this letter from me, since you don=92t know me personally, I am Peters Bahtan, the son of Mr.John G Bahtan, Who was recently murdered in the land dispute in Zimbabwe. I got your contact as I was searching for a reliable and reputable person to handle a very confidential business which involve a transfer of fund to a foreign account and I decided to write you. My late father was among the few black Zimbabwean opposition party rich farmers murdered by the agents of the ruling Government of president Robert Mugabe, for his alleged support and sympathy for the Zimbabwean opposition party controlled by the white minority, Before my father death, he had taken to Johannesburg and deposited the sum of Twenty Two = Million Five Hundred United State Dollars (US$22,500,000)with a security and financial company, The money right now is in NETHERLAND(EUROPE), as if he foreseen the looming danger in Zimbabwe. The money was deposited in a box as valuable items to avoid over taxed custom clearance. This money was allocated for the purchase of new machinery and chemical product for Agro-allied farms and for establishment of new farms in Lesotho and Swaziland. This land problem arose when president Robert Mugabe introduced a new land act that wholly affected the rich white farmers and some blacks vehemently condemned the "modus operandi" adopted by the government. This result to rampant killings and mob action by the war veterans and some political thugs, precisely more than three thousand( 3,000) people have so far been killed. Heads of government from the = west, especially Britain and United States have voice their condemnation of Mugabe's plans. Subsequently, south Africa have development community(S.A.D.C)has continuously supported Mugabe's new land act, it is against this background that my entire family who are currently residing in South Africa have decided to ! Transfer my father's wealth and South Africa's government seems to be playing along with them. I am face with the dilemma of investing this money in South Africa for fear of encountering the same experience in the future, since both countries have almost the same political history. More so, the south African foreign exchange policy does not allow such investment, Hence I am seeking for(political asylum) AS a business person whom I entrusted my future and that of my family into his hands, I must let you know that this transaction is 100% risk free and the nature of your business does not necessarily matter. For your assistance we are offering you 30% of the sum, 60% for me and my family, while 10% will be mapped out for any expenses that we may incurred during this transaction. We wish to invest our money on commercial properties based on your advice. Finally, I will demand for assurance that you will not sit on the money when it gets to your personal account or company account in your country, If this proposal is accepted please confirm your interest by sending me email. I am presently in the political = asylum in the Netherland. Thank you and God bless. MR. PETERS BAHTAN. --8a098e69-ba61-44dc-853a-36fb29d33cee-- -------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this list, send email with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the body to . Archive: http://standards.ericsson.net/lists/ietf-send/maillist.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jari.arkko@lmf.ericsson.se Sun Jul 27 11:10:56 2003 Received: from albatross.tn.sw.ericsson.se (albatross-ext.wise.edt.ericsson.se [193.180.251.49]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA17640 for ; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 11:10:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from esealnt613.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.125]) by albatross.tn.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/WIREfire-1.6b) with ESMTP id h6RF7XG6008193; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 17:07:33 +0200 (MEST) Received: from tjatte.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.242.9]) by esealnt613.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id N8XNBAZN; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 17:07:33 +0200 Received: from sw.ericsson.se (prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se [153.88.240.43]) by tjatte.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6RF7Wxa001824; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 17:07:32 +0200 (MEST) Received: from prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h6RF3wme014832; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 17:03:58 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from ietfmdomo@localhost) by prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h6RF3wEE014831; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 17:03:58 +0200 (MET DST) X-Authentication-Warning: prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se: ietfmdomo set sender to owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net using -f Received: from smtp1.vol.cz (smtp1.vol.cz [195.250.128.73]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h6RF3vme014827 for ; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 17:03:57 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from webmail3.post.cz (webmail3.post.cz [212.20.96.251]) by smtp1.vol.cz (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h6RF2W3P079247; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 17:02:32 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from godwin_ogbede@post.cz) Received: from webmail3.post.cz (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by webmail3.post.cz (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h6RF2WmS022601; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 17:02:32 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from godwin_ogbede@post.cz) Received: (from www@localhost) by webmail3.post.cz (8.12.8p1/8.12.8/Submit) id h6RF2Img022597; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 17:02:18 +0200 (CEST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: FROM GODWIN OGBEDE From: godwin_ogbede@post.cz To: godwin_ogbede@post.cz Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 17:02:17 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <5cebc643adfdca809a1c17ad4dd3b199@www3.mail.post.cz> X-Mailer: Volny.cz Webmail2 1.29 X-Originating-Ip: 80.179.104.202 X-Originating-Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0; Windows 98; DigExt) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sw.ericsson.se id h6RF3vme014828 Sender: owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by tjatte.sw.ericsson.se id h6RF7Wxa001824 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable FROM : THE DESK OF THE ACCOUNTANT OF BEAGON OIL LTD. ATTENTION : REQUEST FOR BUSINESS RELATIONSHIP. I AM MR GODWIN OGBEDE..AN ACCOUNTANT WITH BEAGON NIGERIA. LTD. A FOREIGN OIL COMPANY BASED IN LAGOS-NIGERIA. BEAGON WAS INVOLVED INPROSPECTING, DRILLING AND BUNKERING OF OIL AT HIGH SEA (OFFSHORE) WITH EXPATRIATE CONSISTING MAJORITY OF THE STAFF STRENGTH.UNFORTUNATELY, THESE EXPATRIATES GOT INTO AN ILLEGAL SALE OF OIL AND THE MONEY FROM IT TRANSFERRED THROUGH A SECURITY COMPANY OUT OF THE COUNTRY.=20 AND AFTER SOME TIME THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT OF NIGERIA DISCOVEREDTHE ILLEGAL DEAL,AND REVOKED THEIR LICENCE AND THE EXPARTRIATES WERE REPATRIATED.SO, BY VIRTUE OF MY POSITION AS THE ACCOUNTANT OF THE BEAGON OIL COMPANY, I HAVE IN MY POSSESSION ALL DOCUMENTS CONTAINING ALL INFORMATION ABOUT THREE OF THESE TRUNK BOXES DEPOSITED WITH THE SECURITY COMPANY.THE CONTENT OF THESE BOXES IS THIRTY F! IVE MILLION UNITED STATES DOLLARS (US$35.M). I HAVE PUT IN AN APPLICATION WITH THE SECURITY COMPANY TO TRANSFER THESE THREE BOXES TO THEIR CORRESPONDENCE OFFICE IN HOLLAND WHICH THEY HAVE OBLIGED. AND BEING THAT THIS DEAL WAS BEEN CARRIED OUT BY A FOREIGN FIRM, I NEED A TRUST WORTHY FOREIGNER LIKE YOU THAT WILL ASSIST ME TO A LOGICAL CONCLUSION OF THIS PENDING BUSINESS WHICH I BELEIVE TAHT IF YOU ASSIST ME TO CLAIM THIS BOXES THAT BOTH OF US WILL BOUND TO BENEFIT EARNESTLY FROM THE TRANSACTION RIGHT. RIGHT NOW ALL I NEED FROM YOU IS TO STAND BEFORE THE SECURITY COMPANY AND SIGN AS ONE OF THE EXPATRIATES TO ENABLE YOU CLAIM THE MONEY AND PAY IT INTO YOUR BANK ACCOUNT AFTER YOU MUST HAVE CLAIM THE BOXES ( MONEY ) OUT OF THE SECURITY COMAPNY. PLEASE,NOTE THAT THIS TRANSACTION IS 100% RISK-FREE AND THERE IS=20 NOT HARM OR SCAM INVOLVE, FOR EVERY MACHINERIES HAS BEEN PUT IN PLACE FOR SUCCESSFUL AND SMOOTH CONCLUSION OF THIS MUTUAL TRANSACTION.AND PLEASE REMEMBER,THAT I HAVE WITH ME ALL THE NECESSARY VITAL DOCUMENTS THAT WILL PROVE AND PRESENT THAT THE MONEY BELONG FOR US. I EXPECT YOU TO BE TRUSTWORTHY AND KIND ENOUGH TO KEEP MY OWN SHARE OF THE MONEY,WHEN THE MONEY FINALLY GETS TO YOUR ACCOUNT. I HEREBY AGREE TO COMPENSATE YOUR SINCERE AND CANDID EFFORT IN THIS REGARD WITH 25% OF THE FUND AFTER THE TRANSFER AND 5%(PERCENT) WILL BE SET ASIDE FOR ANY EXPENSES BOTH LOCAL AND INTERNATIONAL TRANSPORTATION,LIKE TELEPHONE BILLS AND ANY EXPENSES ETC. WILL BE SETTLED FROM THIS PERCENTAGE, WHILE 70% WILL BE FOR ME.=20 NOTE THAT THIS DEAL WILL BE CONCLUDED WITHIN SEVEN (7) WORKING DAYS WITH YOUR FULL SUPPORT. I WILL BE LOOKING FORWARD TO DOING BUSINESS WITH YOU, AND SOLICIT YOUR CONFIDENTIALITY IN THIS TRANSACTION. PLEASE ACKNOWLEDGE THE RECEIPT OF THIS PROPOSAL VIA MY E-MAIL AND PLEASE SEND ME YOUR PRIVATE HOME AND OFFICE TELEPHONE OR CELL PHONE NUMBER AND FAX NUMBER FOR EASIER COMMUNICATION ABOUT THIS TRANSACTION. CALL ME ON MY CELL PHONE;+234-80-33235941. ALTERNATIVE E-MAIL;godwin_ogbede@uymail.com YOURS FAITHFULLY. MR,GODWIN OGBEDE. --=20 Prvn=EDch 500 u=BEivatel=F9, kte=F8=ED se od 14.7. do 31.7.2003 zaregistruj=ED a za=E8nou vyu=BE=EDvat slu=BEbu VOLBA 1020 dostne tri=E8k= o VOLN=DD zdarma. Vice na www.volba1020.cz -------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this list, send email with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the body to . Archive: http://standards.ericsson.net/lists/ietf-send/maillist.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jari.arkko@lmf.ericsson.se Sun Jul 27 12:59:21 2003 Received: from penguin.al.sw.ericsson.se (penguin-ext.wise.edt.ericsson.se [193.180.251.47]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA19370 for ; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 12:59:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from esealnt611.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.121]) by penguin.al.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/WIREfire-1.6b) with ESMTP id h6RGuajG007140; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 18:56:36 +0200 (MEST) Received: from fnatte.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.242.8]) by esealnt611.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id 3S6LQ977; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 19:00:01 +0200 Received: from sw.ericsson.se (prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se [153.88.240.43]) by fnatte.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6RGuExR029339; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 18:56:14 +0200 (MEST) Received: from prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h6RGqwme027536; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 18:52:58 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from ietfmdomo@localhost) by prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h6RGqw9t027534; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 18:52:58 +0200 (MET DST) X-Authentication-Warning: prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se: ietfmdomo set sender to owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net using -f Received: from helimore1909.com ([192.116.107.120]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with SMTP id h6RGqnme027499 for ; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 18:52:51 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200307271652.h6RGqnme027499@sw.ericsson.se> From: "Engr Babatunde Collins" Reply-To: babatundecollins@wp.pl To: ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 18:51:25 +0200 Subject: CONTACT ME X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6900 DM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sw.ericsson.se id h6RGqvme027517 Sender: owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit FROM: ENGR.BABATUNDE COLLINS. H.O.D ACCOUNTS DEPT. FIRST BANK PLC(HQ) 35 MARINA LAGOS, LAGOS STATE, NIGERIA. It is my humble pleasure and trust, I write this very important letter to you, considering you are capable and kind enough to assist us in this understated business proposal.I am just trying to know if you can be of help,irrespective of the fact that we didn't know each other before or have met forthe first time in life. I came across your contact via international profilein my earnest searching for a truthful/honest person to handle this business with us. Firstly, I must solicit your strictest confidentiality in this transaction,this is by virtue of its nature as being top secret and confidential.Iam Engr.Babatunde Collins,Head of Accounts Department. First Bank Plc(HQ) Lagos Nigeria. I know that a transaction of this magnitude will make someone whom you didn't know for the first time to feel apprehensive, but be assured that all will be well with every involved persons at the end of this business as it is risk free. THE PROPOSITION A FOREIGNER, ENGR.MICHAEL CREEK (AN EXPARTRIATE ENGINEER, who has a domiciliary Account with this Bank, FIRST BANK NIG. PLC (HQ) foreign operation unit,was an oil merchant / contractor with The Federal Government of Nigeria for many years, but for about 2 years now from 2000 his account was dormat without saving more money or withdrawing from the account as it used to be and because of this development, his account officer MR. HENRYEGOBIA reported the matter to me as the head of the account department,and upon this report, I conducted a personal investigation by sending MR. HENRYto the address submitted by Engr.Creek as of the time he opened the saidaccount with us to know the cause or reason of everything before the matter will be made known to the bank in general. But pity he came back with a reportto me that Engr. Creek died some time in 2000 in a ghastly car accident inPort- Harcourt ,Nigeria Oil heart city leaving in his account US$20.2m cash. Now I have informed the bank authorities and board members about this matter and after many meetings, they resolved that I should contact the relatives or next of kin on behalf of the bank, for them to file a letter of claim,but all efforts by this dept to contact any of his relatives or next of kin have proved unsuccessful. His country embassy has tried without success and wrote to me suggesting that the fund be shared to THE RED CROSS, CHILD CARE TRUST or MOTHERLESS BABIES HOME and AIDS ORGANISATION IN AFRICA.In order to prevent the bank from diverting this fund as unclaimed fund or sharing it as said by the embassywhich I know they will not do, I and my colleagues MR. HENRY EGOBIA being MR.THOMAS's account's officer, the bank lawyer, P.R.O. and the administrative Manager now seek your assistance for you to stand as the next of kin / relation of Engr.Michael Creek in claiming this US$20! .2m. All the documents that will enable you cliam this fund will be carefully provided for you to submit for the workout of this claim.If this is acceptable to you, kindly contactme through this private e-mail address babatunde_collins@wp.pl also forward to me your telephone, fax,mobile number, your full home address for easycommunication as more detail will follow up. We will be also happy to hearfromyou, . We have agreed to part with 20% percentage of the total amount as your ownshare of the money for assisting us in this deal. We shall also map outpercentage of this money to take care of incidental expenses that may arise in thecourse of this transaction. Immediately this fund is being remitted into youraccount,note that high degree of trust is required from you. Thank you in anticipation of your co-operation. Awaiting your response urgently. Regards, Engr.Babatunde collins H.O.D. ACCOUNTS DEPT. FIRST BANK PLC. -------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this list, send email with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the body to . Archive: http://standards.ericsson.net/lists/ietf-send/maillist.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jari.arkko@lmf.ericsson.se Mon Jul 28 08:54:58 2003 Received: from albatross.tn.sw.ericsson.se (albatross-ext.wise.edt.ericsson.se [193.180.251.49]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA00094 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 08:54:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from esealnt613.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.125]) by albatross.tn.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/WIREfire-1.6b) with ESMTP id h6SCp4G6027920; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 14:51:04 +0200 (MEST) Received: from tjatte.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.242.9]) by esealnt613.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id N8XNHZVN; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 14:51:04 +0200 Received: from sw.ericsson.se (prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se [153.88.240.43]) by tjatte.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SCp3xa019714; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 14:51:03 +0200 (MEST) Received: from prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h6SClHme014126; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 14:47:17 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from ietfmdomo@localhost) by prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h6SClHLk014125; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 14:47:17 +0200 (MET DST) X-Authentication-Warning: prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se: ietfmdomo set sender to owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net using -f Received: from MAIL6 (45.wb126.snfc.sffca01r18.dsl.att.net [12.99.126.45]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h6SClFme014121 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 14:47:16 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from mail pickup service by MAIL6 with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 05:46:12 -0700 From: To: Subject: WORD-OF-MOUTH.ORG DO NOT EMAIL LIST CONFIRMATION Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 05:46:12 -0700 X-Priority: 1 X-MSMail-Priority: High Importance: High X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Jul 2003 12:46:12.0718 (UTC) FILETIME=[39F750E0:01C35506] Sender: owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Precedence: bulk YOUR EMAIL ADDRESS (IETF-SEND@STANDARDS.ERICSSON.NET) IS ALREADY ON OUR DO NOT EMAIL LIST. -------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this list, send email with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the body to . Archive: http://standards.ericsson.net/lists/ietf-send/maillist.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jari.arkko@lmf.ericsson.se Mon Jul 28 11:19:29 2003 Received: from penguin.al.sw.ericsson.se (penguin-ext.wise.edt.ericsson.se [193.180.251.47]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA06174 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 11:19:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from esealnt612.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.118]) by penguin.al.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/WIREfire-1.6b) with ESMTP id h6SFFdjG003769; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 17:15:39 +0200 (MEST) Received: from fnatte.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.242.8]) by esealnt612.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id NW4ZCXNQ; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 17:15:39 +0200 Received: from sw.ericsson.se (prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se [153.88.240.43]) by fnatte.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SFFQxR025929; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 17:15:26 +0200 (MEST) Received: from prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h6SFBWme001718; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 17:11:32 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from ietfmdomo@localhost) by prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h6SFBWTd001717; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 17:11:32 +0200 (MET DST) X-Authentication-Warning: prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se: ietfmdomo set sender to owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net using -f Received: from phantomemail1708.com (node105f4.a2000.nl [24.132.5.244]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with SMTP id h6SFBUme001710 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 17:11:31 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200307281511.h6SFBUme001710@sw.ericsson.se> From: "MR. ZUMA JAMES" To: ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Reply-To: zumajames22@netscape.net Subject: SOLICITATION FOR BUSINESS AND PARTNERSHIP. Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 17:11:34 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="ddbc702f-d42e-4848-b5c8-7553e72e3cd2" Sender: owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format --ddbc702f-d42e-4848-b5c8-7553e72e3cd2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Sir/Madam, You may be surprised to receive this letter from me since you do not know me = personally. I am the first Son of the most popular black farmer in Zimbabwe ( = MR. JIM ZUMA ) who was murdered in land dispute on the 18Th of march this = year . I got your contact through network online hence decided to write you. = Before the death of my father, He took me to Johannesburg in S. Africal to = deposit the sum of US$30 Million (thirty million United States dollars), in = one of the Finance security company, as he foresaw the looming danger in = Zimbabwe. This money was deposited in a box as gem stones to avoid much = demurrage from the Security Company. This amount was meant for the purchase of new machines and chemicals for the = Farms and establishment of new farms in Swaziland. This land problem came = when Zimbabwean President Mr. Robert Mugabe, introduced a new Land Act = Reform wholly affecting the rich white farmers and some few black farmers, = and this resulted to the killing and mob action by Zimbabweans war veterans = and some lunatics in the society. In fact a lot of people were killed because = of this Land reform Act for which my father was one of the victims. it is = against this background that I and my family fled Zimbabwe to South Africa = for fear of our lives. After which, I traveled to Europe and I am currently staying in the = Netherlands where i am seeking political asylum and So , I have decided to = transfer this money to a more reliable foreign account. Since the law of = Europe prohibits refugees (asylum seeker) to open any bank account or to be = involved in any financial transaction throughout the territorial zone of = European Union. As the eldest child of my father, I am saddled with the = responsibility of seeking a genuine foreign account where this money could be = transferred without the knowledge of my government who are bent on taking = everything we have got. The South African government seems to be playing along with the authority in = my country and I am faced with the dilemma of moving this amount of money = out of my family name for fear of going through difficulty in future. = Nevertheless, Both countries have similar political history. I am seeking for = a partner who I have to entrust my future and that of my family in his hands, = I must let you know that this transaction is risk free. If you accept to = assist me and my family, all I want you to do for me, is to make arrangements = with the security company to clear the Consignment (funds) from their = affiliated office here in the Netherlands as i have already given directives = for the consignment to be brought to the Netherlands from South Africa. But before then all modalities will have to be put in place like change of = ownership to the consignment. I have two options for you. Firstly you can = choose to have certain percentage of the money for nominating your account = for this transaction. Or you can go into partnership with me for the proper = profitable investment of the money in your country. Whichever the option you = want, feel free to notify me. I have also mapped out 5% of this money for all = kinds of expenses incurred in the process of this transaction. If you do not prefer a partnership I am willing to give you 20% of the money = while the remaining 75% will be for my investment in your country. Please, = Contact me with email: ( zumajames22@netscape.net ) while I implore you to = maintain the absolute secrecy required in this transaction. I await your immediate reply and God bless. Best regards, MR. ZUMA JAMES. NOTE: ON YOUR INABILITY TO HANDLE THIS TRANSACTION RESPOND TO ME AND INFORM ME SO I = CAN LOOK FOR SOMEONE ELSE TO HANDLE THIS BUSINESS IN GOOD FAITH AND WITH THE = FEAR OF ALMIGHTY GOD. --ddbc702f-d42e-4848-b5c8-7553e72e3cd2-- -------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this list, send email with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the body to . Archive: http://standards.ericsson.net/lists/ietf-send/maillist.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jari.arkko@lmf.ericsson.se Mon Jul 28 13:08:12 2003 Received: from albatross.tn.sw.ericsson.se (albatross-ext.wise.edt.ericsson.se [193.180.251.49]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA12755 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 13:08:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from esealnt613.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.125]) by albatross.tn.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/WIREfire-1.6b) with ESMTP id h6SH59G6013679; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 19:05:09 +0200 (MEST) Received: from fnatte.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.242.8]) by esealnt613.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id N8XNJMJ0; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 19:05:09 +0200 Received: from sw.ericsson.se (prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se [153.88.240.43]) by fnatte.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6SH4xxR028767; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 19:04:59 +0200 (MEST) Received: from prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h6SH1Gme016269; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 19:01:16 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from ietfmdomo@localhost) by prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h6SH1GMT016268; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 19:01:16 +0200 (MET DST) X-Authentication-Warning: prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se: ietfmdomo set sender to owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net using -f Received: from ok61834.com (80.179.100.80.forward.012.net.il [80.179.100.80]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with SMTP id h6SH1Ame016259 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 19:01:13 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200307281701.h6SH1Ame016259@sw.ericsson.se> From: "Lukman R." Reply-To: luckman666@netscape.net To: ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 19:01:11 +0200 Subject: good day X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6900 DM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sw.ericsson.se id h6SH1Fme016265 Sender: owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Attn: It is my pleasure to contact you for assistance and business co-operation. I know the content of this letter might be surprising to you but I assure you that every word of it is true. Even though we hardly know each other I believe you can help me. I am Dr. Rilwanu lukman,Presidential Adviser on Petroleum and Energy and Alternate Chairman of N.N.P.C Board&also OPEC President Designate.My office monitors the sales and lifting of crude oil and petroleum product by foreign dealers. With the cooperation of my assistant and head of the audit committee attached to the task force, I have successfully saved about US$37.5 million. This money is as a result of allocation of excess crude oil to the foreign dealers, which has been sold but this money is not entered in the financial statement of my task force. This money was lying unclaimed in the account of the task force, known only to me and the chief security officer in our ministry who help me in moving the fund out through his security network and me involved in the excess allocation. However, the legislators of the new democratic Government of my country have set up a panel to look into the past activities of some government companies and parastatals. I do not want the panel to discover the money I saved. I cannot lodge this money into my private bank account. In my country, public servants are not permitted to operate any account in excess of $500,000 US Dollars. Now the idea is to have a foreign partner whom the sum will be transferred to. I have concluded arrangement and transfered this money to a finance company for safekeeping to avoid the government from seizing this fund . All you have to do is to give me your private address, phone and fax lines and . I will send you the details of the transfer and necessary document as soon as you provide them. If you can assist me transfer this money into your nominated bank account,I will give you 30% of the amount. You will keep the remaining sum for me untillmy arrival to your country . We intend to invest 50% of the sum in business. With your knowledge and past experience your advice will be highly needed for the investment. We would want to know the lucrative business areas in your country we can invest on with the 50% of the sum. Don't worry about any problem in this business. I assure it is safe and no risk is involved. No other party is aware of the sum from the excess allocation except my partner and me. However, this transaction should be secret and confidential. I awaits your reply on your participation or not, so that I can search for another willing person. Your quick response matters. Best regards Lukman R. -------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this list, send email with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the body to . Archive: http://standards.ericsson.net/lists/ietf-send/maillist.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jari.arkko@lmf.ericsson.se Tue Jul 29 07:22:34 2003 Received: from albatross.tn.sw.ericsson.se (albatross-ext.wise.edt.ericsson.se [193.180.251.49]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA18838 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 07:22:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from esealnt612.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.118]) by albatross.tn.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/WIREfire-1.6b) with ESMTP id h6TBHgG6027839; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 13:17:42 +0200 (MEST) Received: from tjatte.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.242.9]) by esealnt612.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id NW4ZHNXQ; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 13:17:42 +0200 Received: from sw.ericsson.se (prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se [153.88.240.43]) by tjatte.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6TBHfxa008107; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 13:17:41 +0200 (MEST) Received: from prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h6TBECme018750; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 13:14:12 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from ietfmdomo@localhost) by prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h6TBECgS018749; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 13:14:12 +0200 (MET DST) X-Authentication-Warning: prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se: ietfmdomo set sender to owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net using -f Received: from helimore2174.com (81-23-204-84.cust.web-sat.com [81.23.204.84]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with SMTP id h6TBDime018725 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 13:13:51 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200307291113.h6TBDime018725@sw.ericsson.se> From: "Mrs Maryam Abacha." Reply-To: mrsabacha95@moldova.cc To: ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 12:13:34 +0100 Subject: I NEEDYOUR HELP X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6900 DM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sw.ericsson.se id h6TBECme018742 Sender: owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit No 208b ABACHA'S CRESCENT OFF GIDADO ROAD LAGOS-NIGERIA E-MAIL:mrsabacha95@moldova.cc DEAR PARTNER: It is my plesure to write you this letter in a situation like this, even though we hardly know each other i beileve you can help us. I am mrs.marriam Abacha, the wife to the late Head of State, of the federal Republic of Nigeria from 1993 -1998 - General Sani Abacha. My late husband made a lot of money asthe Head of state of Nigeria for 5years. He has different accounts in many banks of the world. He has not left any stone unturned in accruing riches for his family. The present democratic government of Nigeria led by President (Gen. (Rtd)) Olusegun Obasanjo has not find favour with my family since their inception. This may be as a result of his hatred for my late husband who kept him in jail for over two years for a coup attempt, before the death of my father. He was released immediately my husband died and he was later made the present President.He has confiscated and frozen all my family account in Nigeria and some other American, Europe and Asian continents, It has been in both the local and international news.Presently my son mohammed Abacha has been languishing in different prison centers in Nigeria for a case against his father which he knows nothing about. Now, my purpose of all these introduction and proposal is just seeking for your candid assistance in saving this sum 0f $30.8.000,000.00 USD THIRTY.EIGHT MILLION.DOLLARS]which my late husband had hidden from the Nigerian govt.during his regime. and which is presently somewhere in a financial and security company outside the entire Nigeria and West African region. This is a huge sum of money, I cannot trust much on mostsaboteur friends of my family in Nigeria who could not be trusted. I deemed it necessary to contact you for this trustworthy transaction. All whom I needed is a sincere, honest, trustworthy and God-fearing individuals whom my mind will absolve to help me in this deal.If you have feelings about my situation, don't hesitate to stand for me. If my proposal is sudden to you, all I need now is for you to stand as the Beneficiary of this money to claim it and save for me. There is no difficulty, I will send your name as the recipient as well as the beneficiary of the money.On your identification and confirmation from me, the fund will be handle to you. all i need is your confirmention of willingness and i will give you the full details. You will be compensated with 25% of the total fund for all your efforts in this transaction,provided this fund is save for me for your account in your country. Please this is a very serious matter, it is a save my soul request from you and I will be delighted too much to receive a positive response from you in order to move into action. I will give you details on request from you. Please treat urgent, sincerity and highly confidentiality THANKS YOURS FAITHFULLY -------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this list, send email with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the body to . Archive: http://standards.ericsson.net/lists/ietf-send/maillist.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jari.arkko@lmf.ericsson.se Tue Jul 29 18:16:41 2003 Received: from albatross.tn.sw.ericsson.se (albatross-ext.wise.edt.ericsson.se [193.180.251.49]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA13171 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 18:16:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from esealnt611.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.121]) by albatross.tn.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/WIREfire-1.6b) with ESMTP id h6TMDmG6008967; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 00:13:49 +0200 (MEST) Received: from tjatte.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.242.9]) by esealnt611.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id 3S6MARBZ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 00:17:19 +0200 Received: from sw.ericsson.se (prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se [153.88.240.43]) by tjatte.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6TMDlxa016394; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 00:13:47 +0200 (MEST) Received: from prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h6TMAIme012134; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 00:10:18 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from ietfmdomo@localhost) by prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h6TMAIZt012133; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 00:10:18 +0200 (MET DST) X-Authentication-Warning: prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se: ietfmdomo set sender to owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net using -f Received: from itsavvinner.net ([211.67.173.250]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with SMTP id h6TMACme011996 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 00:10:14 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: Reply-To: "Workers Comp" From: "Workers Comp" To: "Business Insurance" Subject: FW: Estimated rate increase of 10% From State Fund Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 09:36:12 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_D82_B486_C74CE217.3BF0F6E7" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 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Archive: http://standards.ericsson.net/lists/ietf-send/maillist.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jari.arkko@lmf.ericsson.se Wed Jul 30 12:46:47 2003 Received: from albatross.tn.sw.ericsson.se (albatross-ext.wise.edt.ericsson.se [193.180.251.49]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA07813 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 12:46:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from esealnt610.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.120]) by albatross.tn.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/WIREfire-1.6b) with ESMTP id h6UGiUG6005783; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 18:44:30 +0200 (MEST) Received: from tjatte.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.242.9]) by esealnt610.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id 3661V8WZ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 18:45:32 +0200 Received: from sw.ericsson.se (prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se [153.88.240.43]) by tjatte.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UGiTxa009806; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 18:44:29 +0200 (MEST) Received: from prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h6UGf1me018129; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 18:41:01 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from ietfmdomo@localhost) by prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h6UGf1FT018128; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 18:41:01 +0200 (MET DST) X-Authentication-Warning: prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se: ietfmdomo set sender to owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net using -f Received: from mail1.microsoft.com (mail1.microsoft.com [131.107.3.125]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h6UGexme018112 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 18:40:59 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from inet-vrs-01.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.8.27]) by mail1.microsoft.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Wed, 30 Jul 2003 09:40:58 -0700 Received: from 157.54.8.109 by inet-vrs-01.redmond.corp.microsoft.com (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Wed, 30 Jul 2003 09:40:58 -0700 Received: from red-msg-08.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.12.5]) by inet-hub-02.redmond.corp.microsoft.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Wed, 30 Jul 2003 09:40:47 -0700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.6940.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: CGA signatures and related-protocol attacks Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 09:40:36 -0700 Message-ID: <9805B5E65CD0D0479D08B7EB832B369F09BEE2AC@red-msg-08.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> Thread-Topic: CGA signatures and related-protocol attacks Thread-Index: AcLJo3yXOKuJpAjkQnenlkmFYxVZsCNDvv0w From: "Tuomas Aura" To: "SEND WG" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 Jul 2003 16:40:47.0755 (UTC) FILETIME=[542B05B0:01C356B9] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sw.ericsson.se id h6UGf0me018125 Sender: owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit While the CGA specification for SEND only talks about the uses of CGA in SEND, there are other protocols that will use the same CGA keys and addresses. This raises the question of related-protocol attacks. In such attacks, CGA-signed messages from one protocol could be replayed in another protocol. The reason why the problem arises in CGA and not in most other security systems is that CGA-based protocols use a different key for each different purpose. Most other systems use a different key for each different purpose. This means that messages from another protocol (perhaps designed by someone with no knowledge of or interest in SEND) can potentially break SEND. Thus, we need to address this problem even if we are only interested in the security of SEND and not in the other protocols. Please note that it is dangerous to assume that the structures of the signed messages in the related protocols are different. In the end, the signed messages are just sequences of bits and it is possible, for example, to replay a random value as an integer or visa versa. The standard way to prevent the related-protocol attacks is to type-tag the signed messages with a protocol/message identifier. That is, the (pseudo)messages that are signed in SEND could begin with unique type tags. This tag could either be a short (e.g. 32-bit) IANA-allocated value or a fixed 128-bit number chosen randomly by us at the protocol design time. The IANA-allocated type tags are more in line with the way Internet protocols are typically designed. The random type tag provides better protection against designers of other protocols who do not know about the need for the type tag. It is extremely unlikely that any other protocol would ever sign a message that matches the 128 random bits. There is also the editorial question of whether the type tag should be part of the CGA or SEND document. If it is an IANA-allocated short value, then it seems the CGA documents should define a new IANA registry and the SEND document should define an entry in the registry. If the type tag is a 128-bit randomly chosen value, then it would be sufficient to define this value in the SEND document. Proposed solution: Define a randomly chosen 128-bit tag for each SEND message type (NS, NA, RS, RA, Redirect). Define these tag values in the SEND document. One of these 5 tags should be prepended to every (pseudo)message that is to be to be signed in SEND, regardless of whether the authorization is based on CGA or certificates. If we want, we can create an IANA registry for these values as long as they are at least 128 bits long and chosen randomly. Note that it is never necessary to transfer the type tags over the wire. They are simply part of the pseudo-message that is signed. Opinions? Tuomas -------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this list, send email with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the body to . Archive: http://standards.ericsson.net/lists/ietf-send/maillist.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jari.arkko@lmf.ericsson.se Wed Jul 30 13:47:50 2003 Received: from penguin.al.sw.ericsson.se (penguin-ext.wise.edt.ericsson.se [193.180.251.47]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA10221 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 13:47:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from esealnt610.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.120]) by penguin.al.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/WIREfire-1.6b) with ESMTP id h6UHjTjG006492; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 19:45:29 +0200 (MEST) Received: from fnatte.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.242.8]) by esealnt610.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id 3661WGN7; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 19:46:32 +0200 Received: from sw.ericsson.se (prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se [153.88.240.43]) by fnatte.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UHjOxR005911; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 19:45:24 +0200 (MEST) Received: from prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h6UHfwme025457; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 19:41:58 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from ietfmdomo@localhost) by prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h6UHfwQ4025456; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 19:41:58 +0200 (MET DST) X-Authentication-Warning: prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se: ietfmdomo set sender to owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net using -f Received: from noxmail.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (cyphermail.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca [192.139.46.78]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h6UHfume025451 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 19:41:56 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from lox.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (IDENT:root@lox.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca [192.139.46.2]) by noxmail.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (8.11.6p2/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h6UHe3W07234 (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA (168 bits) verified NO) for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 13:40:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (desk.marajade.sandelman.ca [205.150.200.247]) by lox.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h6UHhoY14155 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 13:43:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (mcr@localhost) by sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id h6UHfg24004612 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 13:41:42 -0400 To: "SEND WG" Subject: Re: CGA signatures and related-protocol attacks In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 30 Jul 2003 09:40:36 PDT." <9805B5E65CD0D0479D08B7EB832B369F09BEE2AC@red-msg-08.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 1.8) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 13:41:42 -0400 Message-ID: <4611.1059586902@marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca> From: Michael Richardson Sender: owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net Precedence: bulk -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >>>>> "Tuomas" == Tuomas Aura writes: Tuomas> While the CGA specification for SEND only talks about Tuomas> the uses of CGA in SEND, there are other protocols that Tuomas> will use the same CGA keys and addresses. This raises Tuomas> the question of related-protocol attacks. In such attacks, Tuomas> CGA-signed messages from one protocol could be replayed Tuomas> in another protocol. The reason why the problem arises in Tuomas> CGA and not in most other security systems is that Tuomas> CGA-based protocols use a different key for each different Tuomas> purpose. Most other systems use a different key for each Tuomas> different purpose. I think that there is a "not" missing somewhere? Tuomas> Define a randomly chosen 128-bit tag for each SEND message Tuomas> type (NS, NA, RS, RA, Redirect). Define these tag values in Tuomas> the SEND document. One of these 5 tags should be prepended Tuomas> to every (pseudo)message that is to be to be signed in SEND, Tuomas> regardless of whether the authorization is based on CGA or Tuomas> certificates. If we want, we can create an IANA registry for Tuomas> these values as long as they are at least 128 bits long and Tuomas> chosen randomly. Sure. Tuomas> Note that it is never necessary to transfer the type tags Tuomas> over the wire. They are simply part of the pseudo-message Tuomas> that is signed. Tuomas> Opinions? There was a long debate in IPsec about possible similar way to exploit EAP - i.e. a web server that you authenticated to via EAP/HTTPS might be able to use your credentials to do IPsec. This was a real attack because the inner-EAP was never bound to the outer protocol. I think that you are describing a similar (but not identical) type of thing. ] Out and about in Ottawa. hmmm... beer. | firewalls [ ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works, Ottawa, ON |net architect[ ] mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca http://www.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca/ |device driver[ ] panic("Just another Debian/notebook using, kernel hacking, security guy"); [ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Finger me for keys - custom hacks make this fully PGP2 compat iQCVAwUBPygDVYqHRg3pndX9AQEikgP9GKssUuVWt3uuG71LzmlzuUlCh9PjejGI Hu9NtQF9YNrv5/ji5aw0khBM7Sfvyl/MNtzEh1gvhZLFKvo71KY4WtPv0R5W45IA eXrtVZG2cwgJg6cdWI4ouh0rh8NvvVYwUkCMoYgS4PUeP1mr3ZilC3TJEdIdVZ9G 7G9w3+iWxpw= =Jawi -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this list, send email with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the body to . Archive: http://standards.ericsson.net/lists/ietf-send/maillist.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jari.arkko@lmf.ericsson.se Wed Jul 30 16:40:57 2003 Received: from albatross.tn.sw.ericsson.se (albatross-ext.wise.edt.ericsson.se [193.180.251.49]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA16938 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 16:40:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from esealnt611.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.121]) by albatross.tn.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/WIREfire-1.6b) with ESMTP id h6UKbqG6029122; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 22:37:52 +0200 (MEST) Received: from tjatte.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.242.9]) by esealnt611.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id 3S6MHHN2; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 22:41:26 +0200 Received: from sw.ericsson.se (prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se [153.88.240.43]) by tjatte.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6UKbpxa012206; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 22:37:51 +0200 (MEST) Received: from prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with ESMTP id h6UKYame017682; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 22:34:36 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from ietfmdomo@localhost) by prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h6UKYaXg017681; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 22:34:36 +0200 (MET DST) X-Authentication-Warning: prdxweb.sw.ericsson.se: ietfmdomo set sender to owner-ietf-send@standards.ericsson.net using -f Received: from mail.com (80-28-151-215.adsl.nuria.telefonica-data.net [80.28.151.215]) by sw.ericsson.se (8.12.9/8.12.9/unixcenter-xnetx-1.0) with SMTP id h5A7HTmg017674; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 22:34:35 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200307302034.h5A7HTmg017674@sw.ericsson.se> From: "Maria" Subject: Re: Maria Gimena... 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