From nobody Wed Aug 1 02:23:21 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A94C3130E27 for ; Wed, 1 Aug 2018 02:23:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Nbgj6io63ild for ; Wed, 1 Aug 2018 02:23:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qt0-x235.google.com (mail-qt0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c0d::235]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ECB6E129385 for ; Wed, 1 Aug 2018 02:23:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qt0-x235.google.com with SMTP id h4-v6so19095522qtj.7 for ; Wed, 01 Aug 2018 02:23:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=943mlkpxXsTSMM0A9inAAtTPfAbSB5BiLfTSoR8o1Ow=; b=vRu48FeWCXb8QH8OmBRbexCvg2tdYbs8204XjcXaI/DOWsyIjw7XC8iS8kjndMjDno ZSrzafhcDeVk8rXJZm/PbL9OfypeFXYcP5/2bfOq1iGkn5n3KFDkXKGFf2t5fRVfLtrn RMR/MRmFWJqcMexGrCqUlI0l38KmPJLjDsB1rOpfZSQ6FjWAIELk6y+JVnvOmZ3bUaZi w1z3QlcOOY5VEG0YFMC3gYA2079qI80CuEO1OpT9wBOACreiuS8jDp9H+H/IC+gu8O/0 TjGgqk6lygWIdp6GiJkrPK99WRndG+YpmPsgY+bNnlEX/fwgiZfsyDF5L1OutilxNP0J d57w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=943mlkpxXsTSMM0A9inAAtTPfAbSB5BiLfTSoR8o1Ow=; b=hJSzvRwWyD+PI6E9w2aHoOBLPevbpNXVdZkQnP1U/mSjFGoB17bTE1B//wdEU6gGSe 2msgwDbNgmcSec9T83QKZKbcbq2+KLV6v+OAf3TZkamDYXnvU3OnkuXsD/iGC0rePfgE g7291KF+Eht/M0uM3g+Ca+oAG81UFQh8Ket9fFX+8Bz0uZ9BHEuD5h/Idi8bpP+xMPxv s+q5yXG7UUwoGZFnJx0GrJfBzdb8nCNcIBmH2ZARkAvEUEnxPOz6K5Tyt9SzqtvcdcMz JBe0pnATKZpmWeLwsCZy2ETzs6bzJyHOEXLaA8IUmUHUYpllg7j2oCNNsYtANmjiHvVz T3SA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOUpUlGAg4CYCJPOREze55BJlNFs+w7lk/A3b5RZSu35eOw1fhrLeKXl nzpsKN6tV2UXDAWW//gj67eiQv16DFEGdTShWns= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AAOMgpc2cVGO074b46tJWNHf1TkErgJUrqNEnYim3P6bC7NTMSlGcTkA7H92SnKijhmJFcelwEeLE0cq5A+TPDJuE/Y= X-Received: by 2002:ac8:304f:: with SMTP id g15-v6mr24904095qte.279.1533115397150; Wed, 01 Aug 2018 02:23:17 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a0c:f684:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Wed, 1 Aug 2018 02:23:16 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Yehoshua Gev Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2018 12:23:16 +0300 Message-ID: To: Rifaat Shekh-Yusef Cc: SIPCORE Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000a59de805725c3e39" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Comments on draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-authn-02 X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2018 09:23:20 -0000 --000000000000a59de805725c3e39 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Rifaat, Another question about section 3. RFC 3261 separates between "User-to-User Authentication" (section 2.2), which uses the Authorization header, and "Proxy-to-User Authentication" (section 2.3), which uses the Proxy-Authorization header. As you wrote, the draft is mostly intended for Proxy-to-User, so maybe the Proxy-Authorization header should be used. In any case, I think that the following security consideration should be added: For HTTP, the request is passed without intermediates, so as long as the transport is secured (HTTPS) the access token is not exposed by the protocol to other parties. For SIP, proxies are used, so unless the token is authenticated by the nearest proxy, there is no way to avoid exposure the token to the proxies along the way. Additionally, if the token is authenticated by a proxy, the proxy MUST remove the Authorization header when forwarding the request, to avoid exposure of the token. Regarding error conditions, I think that SIP should follow the behavior of HTTP, and return 401 with WWW-Authenticate (or Proxy-Authenticate) header as described in RFC 6750 section 3. Some additional nits: - Section 4: s/authorization header/Authorization header field/ - Section 4: Indicate that the syntax is given in ABNF (at least for me it's useful, so I can search the document for "ABNF" and find the syntax :-) ). - Section 8.2: [RFC474bis] -> [RFC8224] Regards, Yehoshua --000000000000a59de805725c3e39 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Rifaat,

Another question about section 3.
RFC= 3261 separates between "User-to-User Authentication" (section 2.= 2), which uses the Authorization header, and "Proxy-to-User Authentica= tion" (section 2.3), which uses the Proxy-Authorization header.
As = you wrote, the draft is mostly intended for Proxy-to-User, so maybe the Pro= xy-Authorization header should be used.

In any case, I think that th= e following security consideration should be added:
For HTTP, the reques= t is passed without intermediates, so as long as the transport is secured (= HTTPS) the access token is not exposed by the protocol to other parties.For SIP, proxies are used, so unless the token is authenticated by the nea= rest proxy, there is no way to avoid exposure the token to the proxies alon= g the way.
Additionally, if the token is authenticated by a proxy, the p= roxy MUST remove the Authorization header when forwarding the request, to a= void exposure of the token.

Regarding error conditions, I think that= SIP should follow the behavior of HTTP, and return 401 with WWW-Authentica= te (or Proxy-Authenticate) header as described in RFC 6750 section 3.
Some additional nits:
- Section 4: s/authorization header/Authorizatio= n header field/
- Section 4: Indicate that the syntax is given in ABNF (= at least for me it's useful, so I can search the document for "ABN= F" and find the syntax :-) ).
- Section 8.2: [RFC474bis] -> [RFC= 8224]

Regards,
Yehoshua


--000000000000a59de805725c3e39-- From nobody Wed Aug 1 06:18:25 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A070912D7EA for ; Wed, 1 Aug 2018 06:18:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 98PLczbuVoEU for ; Wed, 1 Aug 2018 06:18:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qk0-x236.google.com (mail-qk0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c09::236]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C1281128CF2 for ; Wed, 1 Aug 2018 06:18:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qk0-x236.google.com with SMTP id a132-v6so12578263qkg.3 for ; Wed, 01 Aug 2018 06:18:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=jTv6N4mgDXVn8sGks2LrB3/rtfQkY+prUWHjewP09E4=; b=Qzkh+vDwXZHYDVsbye9vcFeywXxlxLlgv8NHZPvlVq1NiNud9RxBEK3HVV80VrwhCy uWAQ/ISd6aA7l7vqPKkIPkgvpskbccQsisQzHIRUE2zwq8CniPiiGVsGX4SYYmUDFbNp tVCFWbwZvHD2bDQXUcpqaJ4olgGscJJ669OEYxbSdzxhk2UJig82lvbZfjt+9qx2stZM 89gXaZIRf1L+TaMWFxq3TnFniLiK5SH2YaAKqimnifuK8wf2h9pfXV5hUZ6QUjdHvVdQ ByK69I0AKOVK+Laoj3r2iMkgCWFyRKUv+a7KNLfVxWdMaAW9DrDugOtCtvwVw5IGxY8T HtKw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=jTv6N4mgDXVn8sGks2LrB3/rtfQkY+prUWHjewP09E4=; b=t2c5DBF6hB83ijv+WqE+H2ssxarfsKDoGvNsXF/59x1oqAI8AMi6mESARshfozvHoz UILmyzSWswjWiZ/ckm1a/sVu9C6cZ77z9nBz1aSfnrpiqhHwj2Yb/01GlXa2VGUaj2NM uEnCfGO08F1zeyvSYuKyll7UwtQ9Gkq1JCqLMmmedzItFFI9AD/I/NXS7nihqqDr5r1J KZv2QCwocq+1oWTgQBWhpOKNCCIwhOj+7LRSjDDWfjwMjp5mJlI6NY51UbSY+pQDv7BH b+NV3K4K1TfeEj3aogn48RY5Kj8fivXQtJo0Dgp2PijyNaAcD5olGXoZUSmwe0Kq9HJS rZZQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOUpUlEGVZXOdTcyz4NTw/smQY+gQJMV+/NWYwKnDE5Fi1chErcFUfgi Qz0DzAfdjGFRDJkiTmcrWdztcWMMbMiw11UcJvU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AAOMgpeAlAth9kLFvrSRasTHM03r3PXIJ7MHVTjlpSsI283g0aW+DJt5CXN7dTo6oKO+LsmcVLIpnZ79HiwpbE45suU= X-Received: by 2002:a37:21e6:: with SMTP id f99-v6mr22779696qki.206.1533129500898; Wed, 01 Aug 2018 06:18:20 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a0c:f684:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Wed, 1 Aug 2018 06:18:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Yehoshua Gev Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2018 16:18:20 +0300 Message-ID: To: Rifaat Shekh-Yusef , SIPCORE Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000004bba9505725f8710" Archived-At: Subject: [sipcore] draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-authn-02 - consider splitting X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2018 13:18:24 -0000 --0000000000004bba9505725f8710 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi, After some thoughts about how the various sections of draft are intended to be used, I think you should consider splitting it to two drafts. The draft currently describes two separate mechanisms: 1. Section 2 is intended for a UA as a way to perform login by entering some sort of credentials. After entering the credential, the SIP Proxy maintains a state for "remaining authenticated" with the Authorization Server. Possibly, the UA uses a novel (not defined by the OAuth RFCs) shared-key mechanism for "remaining authenticated" with the SIP Proxy. Part of the mechanism described in this section is similar to steps A & B of section 4 of RFC 6749 (OAuth). 2. Section 3 is intended for a UA which has means of obtaining OAuth access token (e.g., web application). This section describes a how to convey this access token over SIP messages. It is almost completely equivalent to RFC 6750 (OAuth Bearer token) which does the same for HTTP. I think that each of those mechanisms deserves a separate draft, because: a. A UA will most probably implement only one of those mechanisms and not both. (To say a UA/Proxy conforms to the draft - must both mechanisms be implemented?) b. The security considerations are different between them. c. They correspond to different OAuth RFCs. d. IMHO, the second mechanism is closer to be prepared to publication. Regards, Yehoshua --0000000000004bba9505725f8710 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,

After some thoughts about how the v= arious sections of draft are intended to be used, I think you should consid= er splitting it to two drafts.

The draft currently= describes two separate mechanisms:
1. Section 2 is intended for = a UA as a way to perform login by entering some sort of credentials.
<= div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0After entering the credential, the SIP Proxy maintains a s= tate for "remaining authenticated" with the Authorization Server.=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Possibly, the UA uses a novel (not defined by the O= Auth RFCs) shared-key mechanism for "remaining authenticated&= quot; with the SIP Proxy.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Part of the mechanism desc= ribed in this section is similar to steps A & B of section 4 of RFC 674= 9 (OAuth).

2. Section 3 is intended for a UA which= has means of obtaining OAuth access token (e.g., web application).
=C2=A0 =C2=A0This section describes a how to convey this access token ov= er SIP messages.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0It is almost completely equivalent = to RFC 6750 (OAuth Bearer token) which does the same for HTTP.
I think that each of those mechanisms deserves a separate draf= t, because:
a. A UA will most probably implement only one of thos= e mechanisms and not both.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0(To say a UA/Proxy confor= ms to the draft - must both mechanisms be implemented?)
b. The se= curity considerations are different between them.
c. They corresp= ond to different OAuth RFCs.
d. IMHO, the second mechanism is clo= ser to be prepared to publication.


= Regards,
Yehoshua

--0000000000004bba9505725f8710-- From nobody Thu Aug 2 11:35:59 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipcore@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07A65127AC2 for ; Thu, 2 Aug 2018 11:35:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MbIlz1GrdYEm for ; Thu, 2 Aug 2018 11:35:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-it0-x233.google.com (mail-it0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c0b::233]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A1872120049 for ; Thu, 2 Aug 2018 11:35:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-it0-x233.google.com with SMTP id d16-v6so3375559itj.0 for ; Thu, 02 Aug 2018 11:35:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=p7t7We/6osfTYM7fgdVqSd3iaiT6QQigTUUTAA4K+XI=; b=vAFGrAdJ5dgR7eo0ijfuCRJ/AwBMOeWm0amKZyzP7lSCh5nFX5u5Ol327ChP15Xnm/ ZYMNbBPm3SgDQBR15X1jAzVK/PxeKjxLF70/lNR7PNrq1v4sDLgHj1IP9hIPS+0rTvKK pb8uDzwtm4GqX5p7IWpj9Rwa0Dum0UnZP6CMbevpcWSekzLucGtc08vG022/Hlu2GqFh sHBYEHrHSI0pGzWV9Q7RsPTZe+a2c0lhIGe4opgpYgudqJckqWFdS6s9fL8U3RJjdC6F bvwwChaybwkX2viBbxlQQx9GkSaT+fPjkmEzSo6bU/4C6yHJ35pTdcRJnuFDSQG8LSBE nVww== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=p7t7We/6osfTYM7fgdVqSd3iaiT6QQigTUUTAA4K+XI=; b=lkjjdHUO/eHH9YbshRQde3ie6zi88+FCY0TBmAzGUj/oQvxljmgg/RR1kOzMBSP2s5 5yCrmQGh6MlM6LjQpJFxBTeQ9S0J80r7TuAiuzOEXN1L8urv4D56V/868CfchKBsWo/5 +SAF5btipcQ7E+n/iWIZDsctxCGGySyB1EVBjM9qWP8wV339G/6A0nuDlwKUPWHNT+GT JgqWkB5hhv75aMg0PY62pWEh6olzsHq/5srqt7zFqn7KVu0Yu6D/+w7jpUpNC1QfsnsW B6QiRkJ/UoRGYXyBjxea4Z7ZlUszbqzCHtF0h4jUrLiZ6ysdZjGfPxPW/Akn6oc+xKHM RsfA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOUpUlGafixyvWedFn5Gj5/sHRUP/ThZA03ycRzPj8v+dRUUqskcpj4d 2gTTXpltD3lTvkrER0q3pLRFSLF4638o6S7qP3g= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AAOMgpchfUt5RD3oL8q7uKN6Sh1VX0u91Yt7FL/A0WtgMM+8MZ2Z9tMLjVflXd7mYT0ct8pN2XQbbpkQfxWuKBU1Cjw= X-Received: by 2002:a02:6c45:: with SMTP id w66-v6mr671176jab.87.1533234953840; Thu, 02 Aug 2018 11:35:53 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Rifaat Shekh-Yusef Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2018 14:36:32 -0400 Message-ID: To: Yehoshua Gev Cc: SIPCORE Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000c7f04d057278144a" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sipcore] Comments on draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-authn-02 X-BeenThere: sipcore@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP Core Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2018 18:35:57 -0000 --000000000000c7f04d057278144a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Thanks Yehoshua, Please, see my reply inline... Regards, Rifaat On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 5:23 AM Yehoshua Gev wrote: > Hi Rifaat, > > Another question about section 3. > RFC 3261 separates between "User-to-User Authentication" (section 2.2), > which uses the Authorization header, and "Proxy-to-User Authentication" > (section 2.3), which uses the Proxy-Authorization header. > As you wrote, the draft is mostly intended for Proxy-to-User, so maybe the > Proxy-Authorization header should be used. > Here is a quote from RFC3261: 21.4.2 401 Unauthorized The request requires user authentication. This response is issued by UASs and registrars, while 407 (Proxy Authentication Required) is used by proxy servers. Since so far the draft was mainly talking about the registration part, I think the use of Authorization header is correct. > In any case, I think that the following security consideration should be > added: > For HTTP, the request is passed without intermediates, so as long as the > transport is secured (HTTPS) the access token is not exposed by the > protocol to other parties. > For SIP, proxies are used, so unless the token is authenticated by the > nearest proxy, there is no way to avoid exposure the token to the proxies > along the way. > Additionally, if the token is authenticated by a proxy, the proxy MUST > remove the Authorization header when forwarding the request, to avoid > exposure of the token. > The document is intentionally silent on this issue, because it is out of scope for this document. But I agree that the security section must be enhanced to clearly state that TLS must be used to protect the authz code and tokens. > > Regarding error conditions, I think that SIP should follow the behavior of > HTTP, and return 401 with WWW-Authenticate (or Proxy-Authenticate) header > as described in RFC 6750 section 3. > > Some additional nits: > - Section 4: s/authorization header/Authorization header field/ > - Section 4: Indicate that the syntax is given in ABNF (at least for me > it's useful, so I can search the document for "ABNF" and find the syntax > :-) ). > - Section 8.2: [RFC474bis] -> [RFC8224] > > Thanks, Rifaat > Regards, > Yehoshua > > > > --000000000000c7f04d057278144a Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks Yehoshua,

Please, see my reply i= nline...

Regards,
=C2=A0Rifaat


On Wed, Aug= 1, 2018 at 5:23 AM Yehoshua Gev <= yoshigev@gmail.com> wrote:
<= div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Rifaat,

Another question about section 3.
RFC = 3261 separates between "User-to-User Authentication" (section 2.2= ), which uses the Authorization header, and "Proxy-to-User Authenticat= ion" (section 2.3), which uses the Proxy-Authorization header.
As y= ou wrote, the draft is mostly intended for Proxy-to-User, so maybe the Prox= y-Authorization header should be used.

Here is a quote from RFC3261:

2=
1.4.2 401 Unauthorized
   The reques=
t requires user authentication.  This response is issued by
   U=
ASs and registrars, while 407 (Proxy Authentication Required) is
   used by proxy servers.





Since so far the draft was mainly talking about the registra=
tion part, I think the use of Authorization header is correct.=C2=A0



In any case, I think that the following security consideration sh=
ould be added:
For HTTP, the request is passed without intermediates, so=
 as long as the transport is secured (HTTPS) the access token is not expose=
d by the protocol to other parties.
For SIP, proxies are used, so unless=
 the token is authenticated by the nearest proxy, there is no way to avoid =
exposure the token to the proxies along the way.
Additionally, if the to=
ken is authenticated by a proxy, the proxy MUST remove the Authorization he=
ader when forwarding the request, to avoid exposure of the token.
=


The document is intentionally silent on th=
is issue, because it is out of scope for this document.
But I agr=
ee that the security section must be enhanced to clearly state that TLS mus=
t be used to protect the authz code and tokens.

=
=C2=A0

Regardi=
ng error conditions, I think that SIP should follow the behavior of HTTP, a=
nd return 401 with WWW-Authenticate (or Proxy-Authenticate) header as descr=
ibed in RFC 6750 section 3.

Some additional nits:
- Section 4: s/=
authorization header/Authorization header field/
- Section 4: Indicate t=
hat the syntax is given in ABNF (at least for me it's useful, so I can =
search the document for "ABNF" and find the syntax :-) ).
- Se=
ction 8.2: [RFC474bis] -> [RFC8224]


Thanks,
=C2=A0Rifaat
=C2=A0=C2=A0
Regards,
Yehosh=
ua







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From: Rifaat Shekh-Yusef 
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2018 14:40:07 -0400
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To: Yehoshua Gev 
Cc: SIPCORE 
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Subject: Re: [sipcore] draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-authn-02 - consider splitting
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Thanks Yehoshua,

I tend to agree with you, and I would be ok with splitting the document
into two.
It is up to the chairs and WG to make a decision on this.


*Chairs,*

Any thoughts about this?

Regards,
 Rifaat



On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 9:18 AM Yehoshua Gev  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> After some thoughts about how the various sections of draft are intended
> to be used, I think you should consider splitting it to two drafts.
>
> The draft currently describes two separate mechanisms:
> 1. Section 2 is intended for a UA as a way to perform login by entering
> some sort of credentials.
>    After entering the credential, the SIP Proxy maintains a state for
> "remaining authenticated" with the Authorization Server.
>    Possibly, the UA uses a novel (not defined by the OAuth RFCs)
> shared-key mechanism for "remaining authenticated" with the SIP Proxy.
>    Part of the mechanism described in this section is similar to steps A &
> B of section 4 of RFC 6749 (OAuth).
>
> 2. Section 3 is intended for a UA which has means of obtaining OAuth
> access token (e.g., web application).
>    This section describes a how to convey this access token over SIP
> messages.
>    It is almost completely equivalent to RFC 6750 (OAuth Bearer token)
> which does the same for HTTP.
>
> I think that each of those mechanisms deserves a separate draft, because:
> a. A UA will most probably implement only one of those mechanisms and not
> both.
>    (To say a UA/Proxy conforms to the draft - must both mechanisms be
> implemented?)
> b. The security considerations are different between them.
> c. They correspond to different OAuth RFCs.
> d. IMHO, the second mechanism is closer to be prepared to publication.
>
>
> Regards,
> Yehoshua
>
>

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Thanks Yehoshua,

I tend to agree with y=
ou, and I would be ok with splitting the document into two.
It is=
 up to the chairs and WG to make a decision on this.


Chairs,

Any though=
ts about this?

Regards,
=C2=A0Rifaat



On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 9:18 AM Yehoshua Gev <yoshigev@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,

After some tho=
ughts about how the various sections of draft are intended to be used, I th=
ink you should consider splitting it to two drafts.

The draft currently describes two separate mechanisms:
1. Secti=
on 2 is intended for a UA as a way to perform login by entering some sort o=
f credentials.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0After entering the credential, the SI=
P Proxy maintains a state for "remaining authenticated" with the =
Authorization Server.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Possibly, the UA uses a novel =
(not defined by the OAuth RFCs) shared-key mechanism for "remaining=
 authenticated" with the SIP Proxy.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Part=
 of the mechanism described in this section is similar to steps A & B o=
f section 4 of RFC 6749 (OAuth).

2. Section 3 is i=
ntended for a UA which has means of obtaining OAuth access token (e.g., web=
 application).
=C2=A0 =C2=A0This section describes a how to conve=
y this access token over SIP messages.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0It is almost =
completely equivalent to RFC 6750 (OAuth Bearer token) which does the same =
for HTTP.

I think that each of those mechanisms de=
serves a separate draft, because:
a. A UA will most probably impl=
ement only one of those mechanisms and not both.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0(To=
 say a UA/Proxy conforms to the draft - must both mechanisms be implemented=
?)
b. The security considerations are different between them.
c. They correspond to different OAuth RFCs.
d. IMHO, the s=
econd mechanism is closer to be prepared to publication.


Regards,
Yehoshua





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Subject: Re: [sipcore] draft-burger-sipcore-rejected-01 / Security Considerations
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For the first issue, my bad - the smurf attack will not be via Contact, =
but via SDP. Either way, the point is to not trust untrusted INVITEs. =
Good catch.

For the second issue, I=E2=80=99m not sure how to protect against it, =
other than to say, =E2=80=9CBe careful who you try to call because they =
may try to hack you back in a 608.=E2=80=9D

Any ideas?

> On Jul 31, 2018, at 4:02 PM, Asveren, Tolga  wrote:
>=20
> A few comments regarding draft-burger-sipcore-rejected-01 from =
security perspective:
>=20
> i-  "6. Security Considerations"
> Another risk is for an attacker to purposely not include the sip.608
>   feature capability in a flood of INVITE requests, direct those
>   requests to stateless proxies, and direct the Contact header to a
>   victim device.  Because the mechanism described here can result in =
an
>   audio file being sent to the target of the Contact header, an
>   attacker could use the mechanism described by this document as an
>   amplification attack, given a SIP INVITE can be under 1 kilobyte and
>   an audio file can be hundreds of kilobytes.
>=20
>=20
> I am not sure whether this would be an issue. For most cases, session =
negotiation pertaining to announcement would complete within the initial =
INVITE transaction and therefor Contact wouldn't come into play as it is =
used for new requests but not for responses for the initial INVITE. And =
if session negotiation for the announcement involves a request from the =
intermediary, e.g. UPDATE or reINVITE after the dialog is established, =
the request should be dropped by the recipient (the entity specified in =
Contact for INVITE) as it has a to-tag and a corresponding dialog =
context does not exist. Or maybe I am missing the intended scenario =
here?
>=20
>=20
> ii- A malicious entity can generate a 608 response with a vCard =
pointing to a malicious agent. When, for example, the recipient of 608 =
dials the TEL information in the vCard he may provide private =
information by assuming that he is contacting a legitimate regulatory =
department. I think adding some text to mandate use of certificates for =
vCards and that UE needs to verify them is justified. There still would =
be an issue if the UE is unable to display the vCard and/or the =
certificate derived organization and for the announcement case though. =
It could be an idea the contact information (vCard or announcement) is =
provided by a new call where originator is STIR verified but then that =
wouldn't help if UE is not STIR-aware.
>=20
> Thanks,
> Tolga
>=20


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To: "Zhou\, Ted \(NSB - CN\/Qingdao\)" 
Cc: ben@nostrum.com, sipcore@ietf.org, aamelnikov@fastmail.fm, rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org, shida@ntt-at.com
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Subject: Re: [sipcore] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7044 (5442)
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"Zhou, Ted (NSB - CN/Qingdao)"  writes:
> Sorry for confusion. I'd like the take the following one as an example.
>
> 10.2.  Reason in the History-Info Header Field
>
>    A Reason header field is added when the hi-entry is added to the
>    cache based upon the receipt of a SIP response that is neither a 100
>    nor a 2xx response, as described in Section 9.3.
>
> When receive 180/183, we don't need to add Reason header, right? I
> mean 100 is too specific.

I am sure the authors intended that when the device receives a 183
response, it adds a Reason header.  Perhaps that is not the best
technical choice, but I am sure that is what they intended --
History-Info contains a record of the responses that the request has
received.

Dale


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To: sipcore@ietf.org
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From: "A. Jean Mahoney" 
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Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2018 22:12:43 -0500
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Subject: Re: [sipcore] draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-authn-02 - consider splitting
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On 8/2/18 1:40 PM, Rifaat Shekh-Yusef wrote:
> Thanks Yehoshua,
> 
> I tend to agree with you, and I would be ok with splitting the document 
> into two.
> It is up to the chairs and WG to make a decision on this.
> 
> *
> *
> *Chairs,*
> 
> Any thoughts about this?

I'm not opposed to splitting the draft in two, but I would like to hear 
from the WG on it.

Thanks,

Jean



> Regards,
>   Rifaat
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 9:18 AM Yehoshua Gev  > wrote:
> 
>     Hi,
> 
>     After some thoughts about how the various sections of draft are
>     intended to be used, I think you should consider splitting it to two
>     drafts.
> 
>     The draft currently describes two separate mechanisms:
>     1. Section 2 is intended for a UA as a way to perform login by
>     entering some sort of credentials.
>         After entering the credential, the SIP Proxy maintains a state
>     for "remaining authenticated" with the Authorization Server.
>         Possibly, the UA uses a novel (not defined by the OAuth RFCs)
>     shared-key mechanism for "remaining authenticated" with the SIP Proxy.
>         Part of the mechanism described in this section is similar to
>     steps A & B of section 4 of RFC 6749 (OAuth).
> 
>     2. Section 3 is intended for a UA which has means of obtaining OAuth
>     access token (e.g., web application).
>         This section describes a how to convey this access token over
>     SIP messages.
>         It is almost completely equivalent to RFC 6750 (OAuth Bearer
>     token) which does the same for HTTP.
> 
>     I think that each of those mechanisms deserves a separate draft,
>     because:
>     a. A UA will most probably implement only one of those mechanisms
>     and not both.
>         (To say a UA/Proxy conforms to the draft - must both mechanisms
>     be implemented?)
>     b. The security considerations are different between them.
>     c. They correspond to different OAuth RFCs.
>     d. IMHO, the second mechanism is closer to be prepared to publication.
> 
> 
>     Regards,
>     Yehoshua
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> sipcore mailing list
> sipcore@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore
> 


From nobody Thu Aug  2 22:29:57 2018
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Subject: [sipcore] I-D Action: draft-ietf-sipcore-locparam-00.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Session Initiation Protocol Core WG of the IETF.

        Title           : Location Source Parameter for the SIP Geolocation Header Field
        Authors         : James Winterbottom
                          Roland Jesske
                          Bruno Chatras
                          Andrew Hutton
	Filename        : draft-ietf-sipcore-locparam-00.txt
	Pages           : 8
	Date            : 2018-08-02

Abstract:
   There are some circumstances where a geolocation header field may
   contain more than one location value.  Knowing the identity of the
   node adding the location value allows the recipient more freedom in
   selecting the value to look at first rather than relying solely on
   the order of the location values.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sipcore-locparam/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sipcore-locparam-00
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sipcore-locparam-00


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


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CC: "ben@nostrum.com" , "sipcore@ietf.org" , "aamelnikov@fastmail.fm" , "rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org" , "shida@ntt-at.com" 
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Subject: [sipcore] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-11
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(Apologies if this is a duplicate=E2=80=94my MUA crashed in the middle =
of sending the first time.)

Hi,

This is my AD evaluation of  draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-11.

In summary, I don=E2=80=99t think this draft is ready for IETF last =
call. There are significant issues that I think need further attention =
from the working group before this can progress. I am returning the =
draft to the working group, and will change the state to =E2=80=9CAD is =
Watching=E2=80=9D.

Major Issues:

1. The mechanism makes SIP transactions pend for an indeterminate period =
of time while the push notification is processed, the recipient wakes up =
and sends a REGISTER request, and the registrar processes that request. =
This is a problem for non-INVITE transactions, and is not optimal for =
any transaction. (The issues with doing this to a non-INVITE transaction =
are best described in RFC 4321.)

At least for the non-INVITE case, has the working group considered a =
model where the transaction completes and the UAC resends it at some =
point in the future? (For example, a 4XX response with retry-after)

2. The architectural assumptions are unclear. In particular, the role of =
the proxy in the SIP network is unclear. In some parts of the draft, it =
appears the proxy must be co-located with the registrar, but others talk =
about a proxy that is on the path between the UA and the registrar. =
Along the same lines, the draft needs to clarify assumptions  about =
proxy=E2=80=99s role for inbound SIP requests. (For example, the R-URI =
in an inbound request may or may not match the registered contact =
depending on whether the request has been retargeted=E2=80=94the R-URI =
could be an AoR rather than a registered contact.)

3. The mechanism seems to assume a single contact binding exists at any =
one time, and that any given REGISTER request relates to that binding. =
How is this expected to work if multiple bindings exist at the same =
time, perhaps with different expiration times? What if the user has =
multiple clients that are creating bindings, some supporting this =
mechanism and others not supporting it?


Other Substantive Comments:

=C2=A71
-  Does this draft claim compatibility with APNS and FCM? Can you offer =
citations for those?

- " When the proxy receives (or, if the proxy is the SIP =
registrar[RFC3261], initiates) a SIP request for a new dialog=E2=80=9D
I don=E2=80=99t understand the intent here; registrars do not normally =
initiate SIP requests for new dialogs.

=E2=80=9CDifferent PNSs exist today.  Some are based on the standardized =
mechanism defined in [ RFC8030 ], while others are proprietary (e.g., =
the Apple Push Notification service).=E2=80=9D

Is there an assumption that they are all similar enough that this =
mechanism can work with all of them? If so, please say that explicitly.=20=


=C2=A72: Please use the new boilerplate from RFC 8174.

=C2=A74.1:=20
- Please cite RFC 6809 on the first mention of feature-caps.=20

- Please elaborate on the practical effect of supporting VAPID.

- " If the REGISTER response does not contain a a =E2=80=99sip.pnsreg=E2=80=
=99 feature- capability indicator, the UA SHOULD only send a =
re-registration REGISTER request when it receives a push notification =
(even if the UA is able to use a non-push mechanism for sending =
re-registration REGISTER requests).=E2=80=9D

Why? That=E2=80=99s normal SIP behavior for UAs that do not support this =
mechanism, so the registrar must be able to handle it. (If there=E2=80=99s=
 a good reason, please explain it in the draft.)

- =E2=80=9C NOTE: If the SIP UA application wants to use push =
notifications for
   other purposes than to trigger re-registration requests, it needs to
   be able to distinguish between the different purposes when receiving
   push notifications.  Mechanisms for doing that are outside the scope
   of this specification."

I can see keeping how you distinguish between SIP related notifications =
and other kinds of notifications. But what if the UA uses more than one =
SIP services that supports push notifications?

=C2=A75.2: =E2=80=9C It is RECOMMENDED that the proxy requests the push =
notification at least 120 seconds before the registration expires.=E2=80=9D=
 - We usually recommend refreshing bindings at when half of the =
expiration time has passed. Is there a reason to do this differently? If =
so, why 120 seconds in particular; has there been analysis of push =
notification latency?

=C2=A75.3.1:
-  =E2=80=9C If the proxy considers the requested registration =
expiration interval
   [RFC3261] to be too short, the proxy MUST either send a 423 (Interval
   Too Brief) response to the REGISTER request, or skip the rest of the
   procedures in this section and process the REGISTER request using
   normal SIP procedures. "

That _is_ normal SIP procedure. What do you mean to be different?

- " if the proxy received a =E2=80=99sip.pnsreg=E2=80=99 media feature =
tag in theREGISTER request, the proxy SHOULD include a =E2=80=99sip.pnsreg=
=E2=80=99 feature-capability indicator with an indicator value bigger =
than 120 inthe response, unless the proxy always want to request push =
notifications to trigger the UA to send a REGISTER request.=E2=80=9D

It=E2=80=99s not clear to me why the proxy should be able to override =
the UAs choice.

=C2=A75.3.2:=20
-"When the proxy receives (or, in case the proxy is the registrar, =
creates) a SIP request for a new dialog=E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D
Why would a registrar create a SIP request for a new dialog?

- =E2=80=9C If the contact of the most recent REGISTER
   2xx response and Request-URI do not match, the proxy MUST reject the
   SIP request with a 404 (Not Found) response.  This can happen if the
   UA sends a re-registration REGISTER request with a new contact at the
   same time the registrar forwards a SIP request towards a UA using the
   previously registered contact in the Request-URI.=E2=80=9D

Why doesn=E2=80=99t the proxy forward using normal SIP procedures? =
It=E2=80=99s entirely possible that an UAS address changes during an =
inbound transaction in normal SIP. Why is that different with push =
notifications? (this section seems to replace normal SIP request =
routing. That shouldn=E2=80=99t happen without a really good reason. If =
normal SIP procedures are inadequate, please explain why.

=C2=A76.2: Why does the UAC need to know the failure was due to push =
notification? What would it do differently than for other kinds of =
failures? (This seems like a privacy leak; does the recipient want the =
sender to know he or she is on a mobile=20
device?)

=C2=A711: =E2=80=9C If the push notification related information carried =
in SIP could be
   used by a malicious middleman to trigger push notifications towards a
   device, operators MUST ensure that the SIP signalling is properly
   secured from malicious middlemen, e.g., using encryption.=E2=80=9D

This could use some elaboration. I think the sense of this is backwards. =
That is, the signaling MUST be secured unless there are factors that =
make it impossible for an active attacker to use the informaiton.

=C2=A712.5: The template contains a =E2=80=9Cdocument=E2=80=9D field, =
but the registration policy is =E2=80=9Cexpert review=E2=80=9D. Should =
this be =E2=80=9Cspecification required=E2=80=9D?


Editorial Comments:

- General:=20
=E2=80=94 The draft has some readability issues. In particular, it =
pervasively uses long, convoluted sentences, lots of imbedded =
parenthetical phrases, improper comma placement, etc.
=E2=80=94 The draft pervasively mixes registration procedures with the =
handling of inbound SIP requests. Please consider separating those into =
different sections. I realize there are interdependencies, but it=E2=80=99=
s hard to follow as is.

- Abstract: s/awake/wake ; (or awaken)  (=E2=80=9Cawake=E2=80=9D is not =
a verb. This repeats elsewhere in the draft. .)

=C2=A71,
- first paragraph:=20
-- Saying push notification is the only way to solve these issues seems =
overstated. It=E2=80=99s one way; there might be others.
-- when you talk about =E2=80=9Ceach operating=E2=80=9D system, you are =
talking about popular mobile operating system vendors, right? The =
assertion seems less true for operating systems in general.
- 4th paragraph: The usual term for re-registration is =E2=80=9Cbinding =
refresh=E2=80=9D.
-4th paragraph: =E2=80=9Cbattery life etc=E2=80=9D? What else?

- figure 1: The page break is unfortunate; can the ladder diagram be =
kept all on the same page?

=C2=A75.1, heading: Should =E2=80=9CPNS Identifier=E2=80=9D be =E2=80=9CPN=
S Provider=E2=80=9D (since that is what the section talks about.)

=C2=A75.2:=20
- =E2=80=9C...the SIP proxy MUST have information=E2=80=9D - the MUST =
seems like a statement of fact, not a normative requirements.
- =E2=80=9C If the proxy receives information that a registration has =
expired,=E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D - Bindings expire, not registrations. (Much =
of the draft uses the word =E2=80=9Cregistration=E2=80=9D when the =
common term is =E2=80=9Cbinding"

=C2=A75.3, heading: s/Request/Requests

=C2=A75.3.1: =E2=80=9C If the proxy sends a SIP 555 (Push Notification =
Service Not Supported) response=E2=80=9D
It would be helpful to describe 555 before this.

=C2=A75.3.2: =E2=80=9C The proxy MUST NOT include the SIP request as =
payload in the
   requested push message.=E2=80=9D
Wasn=E2=80=99t there already text forbidding payloads in general?

=C2=A76.7: "  Parameter value chapters that are not part of pvalue needs =
to be escaped, as defined in RFC 3261.=E2=80=9D

What is a parameter value chapter? Should =E2=80=9Cchapters=E2=80=9D be =
=E2=80=9Ccharacters=E2=80=9D?

=C2=A77: This information belongs in the IANA considerations section.

=C2=A711: =E2=80=9C [RFC8292] defines a mechanism which allows a proxy =
to create a
   identity itself to a PNS, by signing a JWT sent to the PNS using a
   key pair."
I can=E2=80=99t parse the first clause. Are there missing words?







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From: Christer Holmberg 
To: Ben Campbell , "draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push.all@ietf.org" , Robert Sparks 
CC: "sipcore@ietf.org" , "sipcore-chairs@ietf.org" 
Thread-Topic: AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-11 - Major issues
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From: Christer Holmberg 
To: Ben Campbell , "draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push.all@ietf.org" 
CC: "sipcore@ietf.org" , "sipcore-chairs@ietf.org" 
Thread-Topic: AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-11 - Other issues
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Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2018 10:27:46 +0000
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Subject: Re: [sipcore] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-11 - Other issues
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From: Dinoop 
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2018 17:15:03 +0530
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To: SIPCORE 
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000001632d40572ff29a1"
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Subject: [sipcore] Modifying early media authorization by an UAC using P-Early-Media header
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--0000000000001632d40572ff29a1
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Hello,

RFC 5009 mainly talks about early media authorization  by UAS toward UAC
only. It is not clear how to handle the ealry media authorization request
coming from UAC. Currently we encountered an issue on our B2BUA
implementation.

As per the implementation requirement by the client, B2BUA has to repeat
the previous P-Early-Media value received from UAS towards UAC in all
supported messages (eg 18x, Update & PRACK ) messages. For an example if
UAS has sent P-Early-Media :senonly on 1st 18x, and if subsequent 18x from
UAS doesn't contain P-Early-Media header, then B2BUA has to remember the
P-Early-Media received on 18x and to provide it to UAC. This fine and works
well.

The issue started occurring network when B2BUA started sending
P-Early-Media in PRACk request towards UAS. For an example,

   UAC                        B2BUA                    UAS
    |        1:INVITE(SDP)    |                        |
    +----------------------->|                        |
    |       2:100[INV]       |                        |
    |<-----------------------+                        |
    |                        |     3:INVITE(SDP)      |
    |                        +----------------------->|
    |                        |       4:100[INV]       |
    |                        |<-----------------------+
    |                        |   5:180[INVITE](SDP)   |
    |                        |<-----------------------+
    |    6:180[INVITE](SDP)  |P-Early-Media=sendonly  |
    |<-----------------------|                        |
    |P-Early-Media=sendonly  |                        |
    |                        |   7:183[INVITE]        |
    |                        |<-----------------------+
    |    8:180[INVITE](SDP)  |                          |
    |<-----------------------|                        |
    | P-Early-Media=sendonly |                        |
    |                        |                        |
    |    9:PRACK                 |                          |
    +----------------------->|   10:PRACK              |
    |                        |----------------------->|
    |                        | P-Early-Media=sendonly |

Here you can see the message 10 B2BUA repeated the P-Early-Media value of
that dialog towards UAS and caused issues at UAS.

The question is
1) How the P-Early-Media value sent by UAC is interpreted?
2) Can you please explain a P-Early-Media value of sendrecv, sendonly ,
recvonly & inactive by UAC has to be interpreted by UAS.
3) Can we treat P-Early-Media sent by UAS and UAC independently or is those
are relative?
4) If UAS sent P-Early-Media sendonly on 18x for enabling backward media
and if B2BUA has to include P-Early-Media (due to some business logic) in
PRACK request, what has to be the value (sendonly or recvonly)?. The value
must not affect backward media flow.

-- 
Thanks,
Dinoop p

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--0000000000001632d40572ff29a1--


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From: Dinoop 
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2018 17:19:02 +0530
Message-ID: 
To: SIPCORE 
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000005c34a40572ff37c3"
Archived-At: 
Subject: [sipcore] Handling P-Early-Media authorization from UAC on PRACK and UPDATE request
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--0000000000005c34a40572ff37c3
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

Hello,

RFC 5009 mainly talks about early media authorization  by UAS toward UAC
only. It is not clear how to handle the ealry media authorization request
coming from UAC. Currently we encountered an issue on our B2BUA
implementation.

As per the implementation requirement by the client, B2BUA has to repeat
the previous P-Early-Media value received from UAS towards UAC in all
supported messages (eg 18x, Update & PRACK ) messages. For an example if
UAS has sent P-Early-Media :senonly on 1st 18x, and if subsequent 18x from
UAS doesn't contain P-Early-Media header, then B2BUA has to remember the
P-Early-Media received on 18x and to provide it to UAC. This fine and works
well.

The issue started occurring network when B2BUA started sending
P-Early-Media in PRACk request towards UAS. For an example,

Exported from Notepad++
UAC B2BUA UAS | 1:INVITE(SDP) | | +----------------------->| | | 2:100[INV]
| | |<-----------------------+ | | | 3:INVITE(SDP) | |
+----------------------->| | | 4:100[INV] | | |<-----------------------+ |
| 5:180[INVITE](SDP) | | |<-----------------------+ | 6:180[INVITE](SDP)
|P-Early-Media=sendonly | |<-----------------------| |
|P-Early-Media=sendonly | | | | 7:183[INVITE] | |
|<-----------------------+ | 8:180[INVITE](SDP) | |
|<-----------------------| | | P-Early-Media=sendonly | | | | | | 9:PRACK |
| +----------------------->| 10:PRACK | | |----------------------->| | |
P-Early-Media=sendonly |
























Here you can see the message 10 B2BUA repeated the P-Early-Media value of
that dialog towards UAS and caused issues at UAS.

The question is
1) How the P-Early-Media value sent by UAC is interpreted?
2) Can you please explain a P-Early-Media value of sendrecv, sendonly ,
recvonly & inactive by UAC has to be interpreted by UAS.
3) Can we treat P-Early-Media sent by UAS and UAC independently or is those
are relative?
4) If UAS sent P-Early-Media sendonly on 18x for enabling backward media
and if B2BUA has to include P-Early-Media (due to some business logic) in
PRACK request, what has to be the value (sendonly or recvonly)?. The value
must not affect backward media flow.

-- 
Thanks
Dinoop p

--0000000000005c34a40572ff37c3
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


Hello,

RFC 5009 mainly talks=
 about early media authorization=C2=A0 by UAS toward UAC only. It is not cl=
ear how to handle the ealry media authorization request coming from UAC. Cu=
rrently we encountered an issue on our B2BUA implementation.

As per =
the implementation requirement by the client, B2BUA has to repeat the previ=
ous P-Early-Media value received from UAS towards UAC in all supported mess=
ages (eg 18x, Update & PRACK ) messages. For an example if UAS has sent=
 P-Early-Media :senonly on 1st 18x, and if subsequent 18x from UAS doesn=
9;t contain P-Early-Media header, then B2BUA has to remember the P-Early-Me=
dia received on 18x and to provide it to UAC. This fine and works well.
=

The issue started occurring network when B2BUA started sending P-Early-=
Media in PRACk request towards UAS. For an example,






Exported from Notepad++




   UAC   =
                   B2BUA                    UAS
    |       1:INVITE(SDP)    |                        |
    +----------------------->|                        |=20
    |       2:100[INV]       |                        |=20
    |<-----------------------+                        |=20
    |                        |     3:INVITE(SDP)      |=20
    |                        +----------------------->|=20
    |                        |       4:100[INV]       |=20
    |                        |<-----------------------+=20
    |                        |   5:180[INVITE](SDP)   |=20
    |                        |<-----------------------+  =20
    |    6:180[INVITE](SDP)  |P-Early-Media=3Dsendonly  |
    |<-----------------------|                        |
    |P-Early-Media=3Dsendonly  |                        |=20
    |                        |   7:183[INVITE]        |=20
    |                        |<-----------------------+  =20
    |    8:180[INVITE](SDP)  |                        |
    |<-----------------------|                        |
    | P-Early-Media=3Dsendonly |                        |=20
    |                        |                        |
    |   9:PRACK              |                        |
    +----------------------->|   10:PRACK             |
    |                        |----------------------->|
    |                        | P-Early-Media=3Dsendonly |




=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 






















Here yo=
u can see the message 10 B2BUA repeated the P-Early-Media value of that dia=
log towards UAS and caused issues at UAS. 

The question is 
1) Ho=
w the P-Early-Media value sent by UAC is interpreted? 
2) Can you please=
 explain a P-Early-Media value of sendrecv, sendonly , recvonly & inact=
ive by UAC has to be interpreted by UAS. 
3) Can we treat P-Early-Media =
sent by UAS and UAC independently or is those are relative?
4) If UAS se=
nt P-Early-Media sendonly on 18x for enabling backward media and if B2BUA h=
as to include P-Early-Media (due to some business logic) in PRACK request, =
what has to be the value (sendonly or recvonly)?. The value must not affect=
 backward media flow. 

-- 
Thanks 
Dinoop p



--0000000000005c34a40572ff37c3--


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From: Christer Holmberg 
To: "sipcore@ietf.org" 
Thread-Topic: SIP Push Change Proposal: Proxy forwarding SIP request towards UA once it receives REGISTER request, without waiting for REGISTER response
Thread-Index: AQHUL+ch+0ydBOeFRkKZov/Ha63oIA==
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2018 13:44:44 +0000
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Archived-At: 
Subject: [sipcore] SIP Push Change Proposal: Proxy forwarding SIP request towards UA once it receives REGISTER request, without waiting for REGISTER response
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--_000_D79221BF33C51christerholmbergericssoncom_
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
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Hi,

Currently the SIP Push specification says that, when the "push proxy" recei=
ves a REGISTER request from a UA (triggered by the push notification) I wil=
l wait for the REGISTER response before it forwards a SIP request towards t=
he UA, to make sure that the contact in the REGISTER request has been accep=
ted by the registrar.

Ben commented that proxies don=92t normally do that (they will forward SIP =
requests using the routing information within the request) and asked whethe=
r there is a technical reason why the push proxy waits for the REGISTER res=
ponse.

>From a push perspective, there is no technical reason to wait for the REGIS=
TER response. The push proxy can forward the SIP request towards the UA as =
soon as it receives the REGISTER request (assuming the contact in the REGIS=
TER request matches the R-URI of the SIP request).

My suggestion is that we change the behaviour, so that the proxy forwards t=
he SIP request as soon as it receives the REGISTER request. It simplifies t=
hings, and it also ensures that the SIP request reaches the UA faster (as t=
he push proxy does not need to wait for the REGISTER response).

Does anyone object to such change?

Regards,

Christer

--_000_D79221BF33C51christerholmbergericssoncom_
Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252"
Content-ID: 
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable







Hi,







Currently the SIP Push specification says that, when the "push pr=
oxy" receives a REGISTER request from a UA (triggered by the push noti=
fication) I will wait for the REGISTER response before it forwards a SIP re=
quest towards the UA, to make sure that the
 contact in the REGISTER request has been accepted by the registrar.







Ben commented that proxies don=92t normally do that (they will forward=
 SIP requests using the routing information within the request) and asked w=
hether there is a technical reason why the push proxy waits for the REGISTE=
R response.







From a push perspective, there is no technical reason to wait for the =
REGISTER response. The push proxy can forward the SIP request towards the U=
A as soon as it receives the REGISTER request (assuming the contact in the =
REGISTER request matches the R-URI
 of the SIP request).







My suggestion is that we change the behaviour, so that the proxy forwa=
rds the SIP request as soon as it receives the REGISTER request. It simplif=
ies things, and it also ensures that the SIP request reaches the UA faster =
(as the push proxy does not need
 to wait for the REGISTER response).







Does anyone object to such change?







Regards,







Christer




--_000_D79221BF33C51christerholmbergericssoncom_--


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Thread-Topic: [sipcore] Handling P-Early-Media authorization from UAC on PRACK and UPDATE request
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Subject: Re: [sipcore] Handling P-Early-Media authorization from UAC on PRACK and UPDATE request
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References: 
From: Roman Shpount 
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2018 16:56:47 +0300
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Message-ID: 
To: Christer Holmberg 
Cc: "sipcore@ietf.org" 
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Archived-At: 
Subject: Re: [sipcore] SIP Push Change Proposal: Proxy forwarding SIP request towards UA once it receives REGISTER request, without waiting for REGISTER response
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Christer,

If proxy does not wait for REGISTER message response, then REGISTER message
is not yet authenticated. In this case, malicious party can use such
REGISTER message to hijack the flow and take over the call.

Regards,

_____________
Roman Shpount

On Thu, Aug 9, 2018 at 4:44 PM, Christer Holmberg <
christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Currently the SIP Push specification says that, when the "push proxy"
> receives a REGISTER request from a UA (triggered by the push notification=
)
> I will wait for the REGISTER response before it forwards a SIP request
> towards the UA, to make sure that the contact in the REGISTER request has
> been accepted by the registrar.
>
> Ben commented that proxies don=E2=80=99t normally do that (they will forw=
ard SIP
> requests using the routing information within the request) and asked
> whether there is a technical reason why the push proxy waits for the
> REGISTER response.
>
> From a push perspective, there is no technical reason to wait for the
> REGISTER response. The push proxy can forward the SIP request towards the
> UA as soon as it receives the REGISTER request (assuming the contact in t=
he
> REGISTER request matches the R-URI of the SIP request).
>
> My suggestion is that we change the behaviour, so that the proxy forwards
> the SIP request as soon as it receives the REGISTER request. It simplifie=
s
> things, and it also ensures that the SIP request reaches the UA faster (a=
s
> the push proxy does not need to wait for the REGISTER response).
>
> Does anyone object to such change?
>
> Regards,
>
> Christer
>
> _______________________________________________
> sipcore mailing list
> sipcore@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore
>
>

--00000000000083adfe057300ff53
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Christer,

If proxy does not wait for RE=
GISTER message response, then REGISTER message is not yet authenticated. In=
 this case, malicious party can use such REGISTER message to hijack the flo=
w and take over the call.

Regards,

_____________
Roman Shpount


On Thu, Aug 9, 2018 at 4:44 PM, Christer Hol=
mberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:







Hi,







Currently the SIP Push specification says that, when the "push pr=
oxy" receives a REGISTER request from a UA (triggered by the push noti=
fication) I will wait for the REGISTER response before it forwards a SIP re=
quest towards the UA, to make sure that the
 contact in the REGISTER request has been accepted by the registrar.







Ben commented that proxies don=E2=80=99t normally do that (they will f=
orward SIP requests using the routing information within the request) and a=
sked whether there is a technical reason why the push proxy waits for the R=
EGISTER response.







From a push perspective, there is no technical reason to wait for the =
REGISTER response. The push proxy can forward the SIP request towards the U=
A as soon as it receives the REGISTER request (assuming the contact in the =
REGISTER request matches the R-URI
 of the SIP request).







My suggestion is that we change the behaviour, so that the proxy forwa=
rds the SIP request as soon as it receives the REGISTER request. It simplif=
ies things, and it also ensures that the SIP request reaches the UA faster =
(as the push proxy does not need
 to wait for the REGISTER response).







Does anyone object to such change?







Regards,







Christer





_______________________________________________

sipcore mailing list

sipcore@ietf.org

https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore<=
br>




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From: Christer Holmberg 
To: Roman Shpount 
CC: "sipcore@ietf.org" 
Thread-Topic: [sipcore] SIP Push Change Proposal: Proxy forwarding SIP request towards UA once it receives REGISTER request, without waiting for REGISTER response
Thread-Index: AQHUL+ch+0ydBOeFRkKZov/Ha63oIKS3UEqAgAApFks=
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From: Roman Shpount 
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2018 17:42:13 +0300
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To: Christer Holmberg 
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Subject: Re: [sipcore] SIP Push Change Proposal: Proxy forwarding SIP request towards UA once it receives REGISTER request, without waiting for REGISTER response
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Hi Christer,

SIP Push is supposed to be used in combination with server side NAT
traversal. REGISTER message is used to re-establish connection from the
client to the proxy so that message can be sent to the client. Proxy stores
connection information from which the REGISTER message was received (remote
transport, address and port) and forwards all messages for the associated
registration over this connection. So, if registration for the same contact
is sent from a different origination address/port, all messages for this
contact will be sent to the new destination. If REGISTER message is not
authenticated before connection information is updated, messages associated
with the registration can be redirected to the attacker which can be used
to intercept calls.

Regards,

_____________
Roman Shpount

On Thu, Aug 9, 2018 at 5:23 PM, Christer Holmberg <
christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:

> Hi Roman,
>
> How would it hijack the call?  If the malicious party inserts its own
> contact the proxy will not forward the request, as the R-URI does not mat=
ch
> the contact.
>
> Regards,
>
> Christer
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On 9 Aug 2018, at 16.56, Roman Shpount  wrote:
>
> Christer,
>
> If proxy does not wait for REGISTER message response, then REGISTER
> message is not yet authenticated. In this case, malicious party can use
> such REGISTER message to hijack the flow and take over the call.
>
> Regards,
>
> _____________
> Roman Shpount
>
> On Thu, Aug 9, 2018 at 4:44 PM, Christer Holmberg <
> christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Currently the SIP Push specification says that, when the "push proxy"
>> receives a REGISTER request from a UA (triggered by the push notificatio=
n)
>> I will wait for the REGISTER response before it forwards a SIP request
>> towards the UA, to make sure that the contact in the REGISTER request ha=
s
>> been accepted by the registrar.
>>
>> Ben commented that proxies don=E2=80=99t normally do that (they will for=
ward SIP
>> requests using the routing information within the request) and asked
>> whether there is a technical reason why the push proxy waits for the
>> REGISTER response.
>>
>> From a push perspective, there is no technical reason to wait for the
>> REGISTER response. The push proxy can forward the SIP request towards th=
e
>> UA as soon as it receives the REGISTER request (assuming the contact in =
the
>> REGISTER request matches the R-URI of the SIP request).
>>
>> My suggestion is that we change the behaviour, so that the proxy forward=
s
>> the SIP request as soon as it receives the REGISTER request. It simplifi=
es
>> things, and it also ensures that the SIP request reaches the UA faster (=
as
>> the push proxy does not need to wait for the REGISTER response).
>>
>> Does anyone object to such change?
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Christer
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> sipcore mailing list
>> sipcore@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore
>>
>>
>

--0000000000000349e9057301a2d9
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


Hi Christer,

SIP Push is supposed to be=
 used in combination with server side NAT traversal. REGISTER message is us=
ed to re-establish connection from the client to the proxy so that message =
can be sent to the client. Proxy stores connection information from which t=
he REGISTER message was received (remote transport,=C2=A0address and port) =
and forwards all messages for the associated registration over this connect=
ion. So, if registration for the same contact is sent from a different orig=
ination address/port, all messages for this contact will be sent to the new=
 destination. If REGISTER message is not authenticated before connection in=
formation is updated, messages associated with the registration can be redi=
rected to the attacker which can be used to intercept calls.

=

Regards,

___=
__________
Roman Shpount


On Thu, Aug 9, 2018 at 5:23 PM, Christer Hol=
mberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:






Hi Roman,






How would it hijack the call?=C2=A0 If the malicious party inserts its=
 own contact the proxy will not forward the request, as the R-URI does not =
match the contact.







Regards,







Christer




Sent from my iPhone




On 9 Aug 2018, at 16.56, Roman Shpount <roman@telurix.com> wrote:










Christer,






If proxy does not wait for REGISTER message response, then REGISTER me=
ssage is not yet authenticated. In this case, malicious party can use such =
REGISTER message to hijack the flow and take over the call.







Regards,









_____________

Roman Shpount






On Thu, Aug 9, 2018 at 4:44 PM, Christer Holmber=
g 
<chr=
ister.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:






Hi,







Currently the SIP Push specification says that, when the "push pr=
oxy" receives a REGISTER request from a UA (triggered by the push noti=
fication) I will wait for the REGISTER response before it forwards a SIP re=
quest towards the UA, to make sure that the
 contact in the REGISTER request has been accepted by the registrar.







Ben commented that proxies don=E2=80=99t normally do that (they will f=
orward SIP requests using the routing information within the request) and a=
sked whether there is a technical reason why the push proxy waits for the R=
EGISTER response.







From a push perspective, there is no technical reason to wait for the =
REGISTER response. The push proxy can forward the SIP request towards the U=
A as soon as it receives the REGISTER request (assuming the contact in the =
REGISTER request matches the R-URI
 of the SIP request).







My suggestion is that we change the behaviour, so that the proxy forwa=
rds the SIP request as soon as it receives the REGISTER request. It simplif=
ies things, and it also ensures that the SIP request reaches the UA faster =
(as the push proxy does not need
 to wait for the REGISTER response).







Does anyone object to such change?







Regards,







Christer





_______________________________________________

sipcore mailing list

sipcore@ietf.org<=
br>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore<=
br>























--0000000000000349e9057301a2d9--


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From: Christer Holmberg 
To: Roman Shpount 
CC: "sipcore@ietf.org" 
Thread-Topic: [sipcore] SIP Push Change Proposal: Proxy forwarding SIP request towards UA once it receives REGISTER request, without waiting for REGISTER response
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Subject: Re: [sipcore] SIP Push Change Proposal: Proxy forwarding SIP request towards UA once it receives REGISTER request, without waiting for REGISTER response
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In-Reply-To: 
References:   <5121FB61-571F-45D7-8863-28A0630703BD@ericsson.com>  
From: Roman Shpount 
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2018 18:38:58 +0300
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To: Christer Holmberg 
Cc: "sipcore@ietf.org" 
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Archived-At: 
Subject: Re: [sipcore] SIP Push Change Proposal: Proxy forwarding SIP request towards UA once it receives REGISTER request, without waiting for REGISTER response
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Christer,

In our implementation of something similar, we sent update SIP nonce in the
push message. Proxy server had access to the credentials digest, so when
REGISTER message was received, it was immediately authenticated and stored
messages were sent to the client.

I am sure there can be other ways to implement the same thing. One possible
solution is to require some sort of securely generated token added to the
contact that can be used to validate that REGISTER message came from the
same UA. Another solution is to use TLS connection ticket to store signed
UA contact and use it to make sure this is the same UA (in which case you
might not even need to receive and process the REGISTER message at all). In
any case, if we want to change sending stored message before success
response to the REGISTER message, we will need to add some sort of
authentication protection to prevent connection hijack.

Regards,

_____________
Roman Shpount

On Thu, Aug 9, 2018 at 6:14 PM, Christer Holmberg <
christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:

> Hi Roman,
>
> > SIP Push is supposed to be used in combination with server side NAT
> traversal. REGISTER message is used to re-establish connection
> > from the client to the proxy so that message can be sent to the client.
> Proxy stores connection information from which the REGISTER
> > message was received (remote transport, address and port) and forwards
> all messages for the associated registration over this connection.
> > So, if registration for the same contact is sent from a different
> origination address/port, all messages for this contact will be sent to t=
he
> new
> > destination. If REGISTER message is not authenticated before connection
> information is updated, messages associated with the registration
> > can be redirected to the attacker which can be used to intercept calls.
>
> You are right.
>
> But, what if the signalling between the UA and the proxy is protected
> (e.g, using an IPSec tunnel), or the proxy has other means to ensure that
> the REGISTER comes from the same UA as the previous REGISTER (with the sa=
me
> contact)?
>
> Regards,
>
> Christer
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
> _____________
> Roman Shpount
>
> On Thu, Aug 9, 2018 at 5:23 PM, Christer Holmberg <
> christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:
> Hi Roman,
>
> How would it hijack the call?  If the malicious party inserts its own
> contact the proxy will not forward the request, as the R-URI does not mat=
ch
> the contact.
>
> Regards,
>
> Christer
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On 9 Aug 2018, at 16.56, Roman Shpount  wrote:
> Christer,
>
> If proxy does not wait for REGISTER message response, then REGISTER
> message is not yet authenticated. In this case, malicious party can use
> such REGISTER message to hijack the flow and take over the call.
>
> Regards,
>
>
> _____________
> Roman Shpount
>
> On Thu, Aug 9, 2018 at 4:44 PM, Christer Holmberg <
> christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Currently the SIP Push specification says that, when the "push proxy"
> receives a REGISTER request from a UA (triggered by the push notification=
)
> I will wait for the REGISTER response before it forwards a SIP request
> towards the UA, to make sure that the contact in the REGISTER request has
> been accepted by the registrar.
>
> Ben commented that proxies don=E2=80=99t normally do that (they will forw=
ard SIP
> requests using the routing information within the request) and asked
> whether there is a technical reason why the push proxy waits for the
> REGISTER response.
>
> From a push perspective, there is no technical reason to wait for the
> REGISTER response. The push proxy can forward the SIP request towards the
> UA as soon as it receives the REGISTER request (assuming the contact in t=
he
> REGISTER request matches the R-URI of the SIP request).
>
> My suggestion is that we change the behaviour, so that the proxy forwards
> the SIP request as soon as it receives the REGISTER request. It simplifie=
s
> things, and it also ensures that the SIP request reaches the UA faster (a=
s
> the push proxy does not need to wait for the REGISTER response).
>
> Does anyone object to such change?
>
> Regards,
>
> Christer
>
> _______________________________________________
> sipcore mailing list
> sipcore@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore
>
>
>

--000000000000fe6c710573026c41
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


Christer,

In our implementation of some=
thing similar, we sent update SIP nonce in the push message. Proxy server h=
ad access to the credentials digest, so when REGISTER message was received,=
 it was immediately authenticated and stored messages were sent to the clie=
nt.=C2=A0

I am sure there can be other ways to imp=
lement the same thing. One possible solution is to require some sort of sec=
urely generated token added to the contact that can be used to validate tha=
t REGISTER message came from the same UA. Another solution is to use TLS co=
nnection ticket to store signed UA contact and use it to make sure this is =
the same UA (in which case you might not even need to receive and process t=
he REGISTER message at all). In any case, if we want to change sending stor=
ed message before success response to the REGISTER message, we will need to=
 add some sort of authentication protection to prevent connection hijack.

Regards,

_____________
Roman Shpount


On Thu, Aug 9, 2018 at 6:14 PM, Christer Hol=
mberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:
Hi Roman,



> SIP Push is supposed to be used in combination with server side NAT tr=
aversal. REGISTER message is used to re-establish connection 

> from the client to the proxy so that message can be sent to the client=
. Proxy stores connection information from which the REGISTER 

> message was received (remote transport,=C2=A0address and port) and for=
wards all messages for the associated registration over this connection. 
> So, if registration for the same contact is sent from a different orig=
ination address/port, all messages for this contact will be sent to the new=
 

> destination. If REGISTER message is not authenticated before connectio=
n information is updated, messages associated with the registration 

> can be redirected to the attacker which can be used to intercept calls=
.



You are right. 



But, what if the signalling between the UA and the proxy is protected (e.g,=
 using an IPSec tunnel), or the proxy has other means to ensure that the RE=
GISTER comes from the same UA as the previous REGISTER (with the same conta=
ct)?



Regards,



Christer






Regards,





_____________

Roman Shpount



On Thu, Aug 9, 2018 at 5:23 PM, Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wr=
ote:

Hi Roman, 



How would it hijack the call?=C2=A0 If the malicious party inserts its own =
contact the proxy will not forward the request, as the R-URI does not match=
 the contact.



Regards,



Christer

Sent from my iPhone



On 9 Aug 2018, at 16.56, Roman Shpount <roman@telurix.com> wrote:

Christer, 



If proxy does not wait for REGISTER message response, then REGISTER message=
 is not yet authenticated. In this case, malicious party can use such REGIS=
TER message to hijack the flow and take over the call.



Regards,





_____________

Roman Shpount



On Thu, Aug 9, 2018 at 4:44 PM, Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wr=
ote:

Hi,



Currently the SIP Push specification says that, when the "push proxy&q=
uot; receives a REGISTER request from a UA (triggered by the push notificat=
ion) I will wait for the REGISTER response before it forwards a SIP request=
 towards the UA, to make sure that the contact in the REGISTER request has =
been accepted by the registrar.



Ben commented that proxies don=E2=80=99t normally do that (they will forwar=
d SIP requests using the routing information within the request) and asked =
whether there is a technical reason why the push proxy waits for the REGIST=
ER response.



>From a push perspective, there is no technical reason to wait for the REGIS=
TER response. The push proxy can forward the SIP request towards the UA as =
soon as it receives the REGISTER request (assuming the contact in the REGIS=
TER request matches the R-URI of the SIP request).



My suggestion is that we change the behaviour, so that the proxy forwards t=
he SIP request as soon as it receives the REGISTER request. It simplifies t=
hings, and it also ensures that the SIP request reaches the UA faster (as t=
he push proxy does not need to wait for the REGISTER response).



Does anyone object to such change?



Regards,



Christer



_______________________________________________

sipcore mailing list

sipcore@ietf.org

https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore<=
br>








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From: Christer Holmberg 
To: Roman Shpount 
CC: "sipcore@ietf.org" 
Thread-Topic: [sipcore] SIP Push Change Proposal: Proxy forwarding SIP request towards UA once it receives REGISTER request, without waiting for REGISTER response
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Subject: Re: [sipcore] SIP Push Change Proposal: Proxy forwarding SIP request towards UA once it receives REGISTER request, without waiting for REGISTER response
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References:   <5121FB61-571F-45D7-8863-28A0630703BD@ericsson.com>    
From: Roman Shpount 
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2018 18:51:25 +0300
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To: Christer Holmberg 
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Subject: Re: [sipcore] SIP Push Change Proposal: Proxy forwarding SIP request towards UA once it receives REGISTER request, without waiting for REGISTER response
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--00000000000085704a057302997d
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Hi Christer,

This is fine. We can specify that REGISTER message MUST be authenticated
before any stored messages are sent over this connection. This
authentication can either be based on success response to REGISTER message,
or some other mechanism, such as security token.

Regards,

_____________
Roman Shpount

On Thu, Aug 9, 2018 at 6:43 PM, Christer Holmberg <
christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:

> Hi Roman,
>
>
>
> I am not suggesting that we define a mechanism, or define what mechanism
> to use (different environments and architectures may use different ones)
> simply that we would allow forwarding the request if such mechanism is in
> place.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> Christer
>
>
>
> *From:* Roman Shpount [mailto:roman@telurix.com]
> *Sent:* 09 August 2018 18:39
> *To:* Christer Holmberg 
> *Cc:* sipcore@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [sipcore] SIP Push Change Proposal: Proxy forwarding SIP
> request towards UA once it receives REGISTER request, without waiting for
> REGISTER response
>
>
>
> Christer,
>
>
>
> In our implementation of something similar, we sent update SIP nonce in
> the push message. Proxy server had access to the credentials digest, so
> when REGISTER message was received, it was immediately authenticated and
> stored messages were sent to the client.
>
>
>
> I am sure there can be other ways to implement the same thing. One
> possible solution is to require some sort of securely generated token add=
ed
> to the contact that can be used to validate that REGISTER message came fr=
om
> the same UA. Another solution is to use TLS connection ticket to store
> signed UA contact and use it to make sure this is the same UA (in which
> case you might not even need to receive and process the REGISTER message =
at
> all). In any case, if we want to change sending stored message before
> success response to the REGISTER message, we will need to add some sort o=
f
> authentication protection to prevent connection hijack.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
> _____________
> Roman Shpount
>
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 9, 2018 at 6:14 PM, Christer Holmberg <
> christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Roman,
>
> > SIP Push is supposed to be used in combination with server side NAT
> traversal. REGISTER message is used to re-establish connection
> > from the client to the proxy so that message can be sent to the client.
> Proxy stores connection information from which the REGISTER
> > message was received (remote transport, address and port) and forwards
> all messages for the associated registration over this connection.
> > So, if registration for the same contact is sent from a different
> origination address/port, all messages for this contact will be sent to t=
he
> new
> > destination. If REGISTER message is not authenticated before connection
> information is updated, messages associated with the registration
> > can be redirected to the attacker which can be used to intercept calls.
>
> You are right.
>
> But, what if the signalling between the UA and the proxy is protected
> (e.g, using an IPSec tunnel), or the proxy has other means to ensure that
> the REGISTER comes from the same UA as the previous REGISTER (with the sa=
me
> contact)?
>
> Regards,
>
> Christer
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
> _____________
> Roman Shpount
>
> On Thu, Aug 9, 2018 at 5:23 PM, Christer Holmberg <
> christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:
> Hi Roman,
>
> How would it hijack the call?  If the malicious party inserts its own
> contact the proxy will not forward the request, as the R-URI does not mat=
ch
> the contact.
>
> Regards,
>
> Christer
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On 9 Aug 2018, at 16.56, Roman Shpount  wrote:
> Christer,
>
> If proxy does not wait for REGISTER message response, then REGISTER
> message is not yet authenticated. In this case, malicious party can use
> such REGISTER message to hijack the flow and take over the call.
>
> Regards,
>
>
> _____________
> Roman Shpount
>
> On Thu, Aug 9, 2018 at 4:44 PM, Christer Holmberg <
> christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Currently the SIP Push specification says that, when the "push proxy"
> receives a REGISTER request from a UA (triggered by the push notification=
)
> I will wait for the REGISTER response before it forwards a SIP request
> towards the UA, to make sure that the contact in the REGISTER request has
> been accepted by the registrar.
>
> Ben commented that proxies don=E2=80=99t normally do that (they will forw=
ard SIP
> requests using the routing information within the request) and asked
> whether there is a technical reason why the push proxy waits for the
> REGISTER response.
>
> From a push perspective, there is no technical reason to wait for the
> REGISTER response. The push proxy can forward the SIP request towards the
> UA as soon as it receives the REGISTER request (assuming the contact in t=
he
> REGISTER request matches the R-URI of the SIP request).
>
> My suggestion is that we change the behaviour, so that the proxy forwards
> the SIP request as soon as it receives the REGISTER request. It simplifie=
s
> things, and it also ensures that the SIP request reaches the UA faster (a=
s
> the push proxy does not need to wait for the REGISTER response).
>
> Does anyone object to such change?
>
> Regards,
>
> Christer
>
> _______________________________________________
> sipcore mailing list
> sipcore@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore
>
>
>

--00000000000085704a057302997d
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


Hi Christer,

This is fine. We can speci=
fy that REGISTER message MUST be authenticated before any stored messages a=
re sent over this connection. This authentication can either be based on su=
ccess response to REGISTER message, or some other mechanism, such as securi=
ty token.

Regards,

_____________
Roman Shpount


On Thu, Aug 9, 2018 at 6:43 PM, Christer Hol=
mberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:











Hi Roman,


=C2=A0


I am not suggesting that we define a =
mechanism, or define what mechanism to use (different environments and arch=
itectures may use different
 ones) simply that we would allow forwarding the request if such mechanism =
is in place.


=C2=A0


Regards,


=C2=A0


Christer


=C2=A0


From: =
Roman Shpount [mailto:roman@telurix.com]


Sent: 09 August 2018 18:39

To: Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com>

Cc: sipcore@ie=
tf.org

Subject: Re: [sipcore] SIP Push Change Proposal: Proxy forwarding SI=
P request towards UA once it receives REGISTER request, without waiting for=
 REGISTER response


=C2=A0




Christer,




=C2=A0






In our implementation of something similar, we sent =
update SIP nonce in the push message. Proxy server had access to the creden=
tials digest, so when REGISTER message was received, it was immediately aut=
henticated and stored messages were
 sent to the client.=C2=A0






=C2=A0






I am sure there can be other ways to implement the s=
ame thing. One possible solution is to require some sort of securely genera=
ted token added to the contact that can be used to validate that REGISTER m=
essage came from the same UA. Another
 solution is to use TLS connection ticket to store signed UA contact and us=
e it to make sure this is the same UA (in which case you might not even nee=
d to receive and process the REGISTER message at all). In any case, if we w=
ant to change sending stored message
 before success response to the REGISTER message, we will need to add some =
sort of authentication protection to prevent connection hijack.






=C2=A0






Regards,

















_____________

Roman Shpount






=C2=A0




On Thu, Aug 9, 2018 at 6:14 PM, Christer Holmberg &l=
t;chris=
ter.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:




Hi Roman,



> SIP Push is supposed to be used in combination with server side NAT tr=
aversal. REGISTER message is used to re-establish connection


> from the client to the proxy so that message can be sent to the client=
. Proxy stores connection information from which the REGISTER


> message was received (remote transport,=C2=A0address and port) and for=
wards all messages for the associated registration over this connection.


> So, if registration for the same contact is sent from a different orig=
ination address/port, all messages for this contact will be sent to the new


> destination. If REGISTER message is not authenticated before connectio=
n information is updated, messages associated with the registration


> can be redirected to the attacker which can be used to intercept calls=
.



You are right. 



But, what if the signalling between the UA and the proxy is protected (e.g,=
 using an IPSec tunnel), or the proxy has other means to ensure that the RE=
GISTER comes from the same UA as the previous REGISTER (with the same conta=
ct)?



Regards,



Christer










Regards,





_____________

Roman Shpount



On Thu, Aug 9, 2018 at 5:23 PM, Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.<=
wbr>com> wrote:

Hi Roman, 



How would it hijack the call?=C2=A0 If the malicious party inserts its own =
contact the proxy will not forward the request, as the R-URI does not match=
 the contact.



Regards,



Christer

Sent from my iPhone



On 9 Aug 2018, at 16.56, Roman Shpount <roman@telurix.com> wrote:

Christer, 



If proxy does not wait for REGISTER message response, then REGISTER message=
 is not yet authenticated. In this case, malicious party can use such REGIS=
TER message to hijack the flow and take over the call.



Regards,





_____________

Roman Shpount



On Thu, Aug 9, 2018 at 4:44 PM, Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.<=
wbr>com> wrote:

Hi,



Currently the SIP Push specification says that, when the "push proxy&q=
uot; receives a REGISTER request from a UA (triggered by the push notificat=
ion) I will wait for the REGISTER response before it forwards a SIP request=
 towards the UA, to make sure that the contact
 in the REGISTER request has been accepted by the registrar.



Ben commented that proxies don=E2=80=99t normally do that (they will forwar=
d SIP requests using the routing information within the request) and asked =
whether there is a technical reason why the push proxy waits for the REGIST=
ER response.



>From a push perspective, there is no technical reason to wait for the REGIS=
TER response. The push proxy can forward the SIP request towards the UA as =
soon as it receives the REGISTER request (assuming the contact in the REGIS=
TER request matches the R-URI of
 the SIP request).



My suggestion is that we change the behaviour, so that the proxy forwards t=
he SIP request as soon as it receives the REGISTER request. It simplifies t=
hings, and it also ensures that the SIP request reaches the UA faster (as t=
he push proxy does not need to wait
 for the REGISTER response).



Does anyone object to such change?



Regards,



Christer



_______________________________________________

sipcore mailing list

sipcore@ietf.org<=
br>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore














=C2=A0












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From: Christer Holmberg 
To: "sipcore@ietf.org" 
Thread-Topic: SIP Push: Wrong usage of "registrar" terminology and clarification of location of push proxy
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Subject: [sipcore] SIP Push: Wrong usage of "registrar" terminology and clarification of location of push proxy
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Hi,

Ben and Robert raised on issue regarding the usage of "registrar", and that=
 the location of the push proxy needs to clarification.

Regarding usage of "registrar", in some places the text indicates that the =
registrar forwards SIP requests towards the UA, and that the push proxy may=
 in the registrar.

Now, that is not true. A registrar only processes REGISTER request. It does=
 not forward SIP requests.

Instead, the text should talk about "the proxy responsible for the UA's dom=
ain" (terminology used in RFCC 3261), i.e., the proxy that replaces the AOR=
 of an incoming request with the registered contact (including the pn- URI =
parameters). Sometimes that is called "home proxy", "S-CSCF" (IMS) etc. Tha=
t proxy fetches the registered contact from the registrar - or from whereve=
r the registrar has stored the contact information.


Regarding the location of the push proxy, it needs to be more clear that it=
 must to be located between the UA and the "home proxy" (or in the home pro=
xy). Otherwise the request will not contain the pn- URI paramters.

Regards,

Christer

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Hi,


 


Ben and Robert raised on issue regarding the usage o=
f “registrar”, and that the location of the push proxy needs to=
 clarification.


 


Regarding usage of “registrar”, in some =
places the text indicates that the registrar forwards SIP requests towards =
the UA, and that the push proxy may in the registrar.


 


Now, that is not true. A registrar only processes RE=
GISTER request. It does not forward SIP requests.


 


Instead, the text should talk about “the proxy=
 responsible for the UA’s domain” (terminology used in RFCC 326=
1), i.e., the proxy that replaces the AOR of an incoming request with the r=
egistered contact (including the pn- URI parameters).
 Sometimes that is called “home proxy”, “S-CSCF” (I=
MS) etc. That proxy fetches the registered contact from the registrar ̵=
1; or from wherever the registrar has stored the contact information.<=
/o:p>


 


 


Regarding the location of the push proxy, it needs t=
o be more clear that it must to be located between the UA and the “ho=
me proxy” (or in the home proxy). Otherwise the request will not cont=
ain the pn- URI paramters.


 


Regards,


 


Christer






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References: 
From: Ranjit Avasarala 
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2018 22:40:17 -0500
Message-ID: 
To: Dinoop 
Cc: SIPCORE 
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000a3154205730c8066"
Archived-At: 
Subject: Re: [sipcore] Handling P-Early-Media authorization from UAC on PRACK and UPDATE request
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--000000000000a3154205730c8066
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Hi Dinoop

The P-early-media header indicates to the receiving entity that media like
DTMF or pre-recorded announcements should be played.  Refer to RFC 5009 for
a detailed explanation of this header


On Thu, Aug 9, 2018 at 6:49 AM, Dinoop  wrote:

> Hello,
>
> RFC 5009 mainly talks about early media authorization  by UAS toward UAC
> only. It is not clear how to handle the ealry media authorization request
> coming from UAC. Currently we encountered an issue on our B2BUA
> implementation.
>
> As per the implementation requirement by the client, B2BUA has to repeat
> the previous P-Early-Media value received from UAS towards UAC in all
> supported messages (eg 18x, Update & PRACK ) messages. For an example if
> UAS has sent P-Early-Media :senonly on 1st 18x, and if subsequent 18x from
> UAS doesn't contain P-Early-Media header, then B2BUA has to remember the
> P-Early-Media received on 18x and to provide it to UAC. This fine and works
> well.
>
> The issue started occurring network when B2BUA started sending
> P-Early-Media in PRACk request towards UAS. For an example,
>
> Exported from Notepad++
> UAC B2BUA UAS | 1:INVITE(SDP) | | +----------------------->| | |
> 2:100[INV] | | |<-----------------------+ | | | 3:INVITE(SDP) | |
> +----------------------->| | | 4:100[INV] | | |<-----------------------+ |
> | 5:180[INVITE](SDP) | | |<-----------------------+ | 6:180[INVITE](SDP)
> |P-Early-Media=sendonly | |<-----------------------| |
> |P-Early-Media=sendonly | | | | 7:183[INVITE] | |
> |<-----------------------+ | 8:180[INVITE](SDP) | |
> |<-----------------------| | | P-Early-Media=sendonly | | | | | | 9:PRACK |
> | +----------------------->| 10:PRACK | | |----------------------->| | |
> P-Early-Media=sendonly |
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Here you can see the message 10 B2BUA repeated the P-Early-Media value of
> that dialog towards UAS and caused issues at UAS.
>
> The question is
> 1) How the P-Early-Media value sent by UAC is interpreted?
> 2) Can you please explain a P-Early-Media value of sendrecv, sendonly ,
> recvonly & inactive by UAC has to be interpreted by UAS.
> 3) Can we treat P-Early-Media sent by UAS and UAC independently or is
> those are relative?
> 4) If UAS sent P-Early-Media sendonly on 18x for enabling backward media
> and if B2BUA has to include P-Early-Media (due to some business logic) in
> PRACK request, what has to be the value (sendonly or recvonly)?. The value
> must not affect backward media flow.
>
> --
> Thanks
> Dinoop p
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sipcore mailing list
> sipcore@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore
>
>

--000000000000a3154205730c8066
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


Hi Dinoop

The P-early-media header indi=
cates to the receiving entity that media like DTMF or pre-recorded announce=
ments should be played.=C2=A0 Refer to RFC 5009 for a detailed explanation =
of this header


On Thu, Aug 9, 2018 at 6:49 AM, Dinoop <dinoop.p=
1@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello,

RFC 5009 mainly talks about =
early media authorization=C2=A0 by UAS toward UAC only. It is not clear how=
 to handle the ealry media authorization request coming from UAC. Currently=
 we encountered an issue on our B2BUA implementation.

As per the imp=
lementation requirement by the client, B2BUA has to repeat the previous P-E=
arly-Media value received from UAS towards UAC in all supported messages (e=
g 18x, Update & PRACK ) messages. For an example if UAS has sent P-Earl=
y-Media :senonly on 1st 18x, and if subsequent 18x from UAS doesn't con=
tain P-Early-Media header, then B2BUA has to remember the P-Early-Media rec=
eived on 18x and to provide it to UAC. This fine and works well.

The=
 issue started occurring network when B2BUA started sending P-Early-Media i=
n PRACk request towards UAS. For an example,






Exported from Notepad++




   UAC                      B2BUA                    UAS
    |       1:INVITE(SDP)    |                        |
    +----------------------->|                        |=20
    |       2:100[INV]       |                        |=20
    |<-----------------------+                        |=20
    |                        |     3:INVITE(SDP)      |=20
    |                        +----------------------->|=20
    |                        |       4:100[INV]       |=20
    |                        |<-----------------------+=20
    |                        |   5:180[INVITE](SDP)   |=20
    |                        |<-----------------------+  =20
    |    6:180[INVITE](SDP)  |P-Early-Media=3Dsendonly  |
    |<-----------------------|                        |
    |P-Early-Media=3Dsendonly  |                        |=20
    |                        |   7:183[INVITE]        |=20
    |                        |<-----------------------+  =20
    |    8:180[INVITE](SDP)  |                        |
    |<-----------------------|                        |
    | P-Early-Media=3Dsendonly |                        |=20
    |                        |                        |
    |   9:PRACK              |                        |
    +----------------------->|   10:PRACK             |
    |                        |----------------------->|
    |                        | P-Early-Media=3Dsendonly |




=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 






















Here yo=
u can see the message 10 B2BUA repeated the P-Early-Media value of that dia=
log towards UAS and caused issues at UAS. 

The question is 
1) Ho=
w the P-Early-Media value sent by UAC is interpreted? 
2) Can you please=
 explain a P-Early-Media value of sendrecv, sendonly , recvonly & inact=
ive by UAC has to be interpreted by UAS. 
3) Can we treat P-Early-Media =
sent by UAS and UAC independently or is those are relative?
4) If UAS se=
nt P-Early-Media sendonly on 18x for enabling backward media and if B2BUA h=
as to include P-Early-Media (due to some business logic) in PRACK request, =
what has to be the value (sendonly or recvonly)?. The value must not affect=
 backward media flow. 

-- 
Thanks 
Dinoop p



_______________________________________________

sipcore mailing list

sipcore@ietf.org

https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore<=
br>




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In-Reply-To: 
From: Dinoop 
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2018 16:02:45 +0530
Message-ID: 
To: SIPCORE , R.Jesske@telekom.de
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000071e2ff057312443c"
Archived-At: 
Subject: [sipcore] Fwd: Handling P-Early-Media authorization from UAC on PRACK and UPDATE request
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Including sipcore@ietf.org

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Dinoop 
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2018 at 15:57
Subject: Re: [sipcore] Handling P-Early-Media authorization from UAC on
PRACK and UPDATE request
To: 


Hello Jesske,

Thanks for the explanation. The following points has to be clarified

As per RFC 5009 6.Overview of Operation
, it is stated that,
"

   The UAC and proxies in the network may also insert, delete, or modify
   the P-Early-Media header field in messages towards the UAS within the
   dialog according to local policy, but the interpretation of the
   header field when used in this way is a matter of local policy and
   not defined herein.  The use of direction parameter(s) in this header
   field could be used to inform the UAS of the final early media
   authorization status.

"
It is allowed to send the P-Early-Media by UAC/proxy towards UAS and is
interpreted based on the local policy. Having said that, there is no
standard defined to generalize the usage. An example given above is to
inform the UAS about the actual authorization which is applied.

For an example suppose the UAS requested early media authorization of *send=
recv
*in reliable 18x response and the proxy responsible for media authorization
for UAC modified it to *sendonly* and  sent towards UAC. It is because the
local policy allows only  backward media Now if the proxy wants to inform
the UAS about the actually applied media authorization it can insert a
P-Early-Media with value of* sendonly *in the PRACK request sent to UAS.

Is this correct.? I used the value sendonly in PRACK request according to
the following section 8.The P-Early-Media Header Field,


"

   The parameter value "sendrecv" indicates a request for authorization
   of early media associated with the corresponding media line, both
   from the UAS towards the UAC and from the UAC towards the UAS (both
   backward and forward early media).  The value "sendonly" indicates a
   request for authorization of early media from the UAS towards the UAC
   (backward early media), and not in the other direction.  The value
   "recvonly" indicates a request for authorization of early media from
   the UAC towards the UAS (forward early media), and not in the other
   direction.  The value "inactive" indicates either a request that no
   early media associated with the corresponding media line be
   authorized, or a request for revocation of authorization of
   previously authorized early media.

"

It  states that the value of P-Early-Media has is absolute and the
value *sendonly
*always indicates backwards early media. ie. If UAC/Proxy includes
P-Early-Media:*sendonly *in PRACK request towards UAS informs UAS that only
backward media is authorized.
Can you confirm whether this is the correct understanding?
(I know in offer/answer model the direction attributes are relative and one
must sent SDP answer with a=3Drecvonly/inactive for the offer received with
a=3Dsendonly)


My reply for your questions are follows,


   1. How the P-Early-Media value sent by UAC is interpreted?

Answer: Based on your use case, in a wrong way. Since early media is sent
towards the UAC and not towards the UAS. So it is a wrong B2BUA
implementation

PRACK is not sent towards the UAC.

[Dinoop]: Sorry I made it confusing. I mean the PRACK request towards UAS
only.


If you would like to sent such indication towards the UAS then it should
change the direction

[Dinoop] But as per section 8.The P-Early-Media Header Field,
stated above the value is
absolute. Can you please check?


and Question is why it sould be sent? Because the early media could be also
invoked by the B2BUA.

[Dinoop] Our B2BUA implementation  do not insert P-Early-Media header
towards UAS. But it has to be ready to expect the header from UAC. Because
it is allowed as per RFC


3) Can we treat P-Early-Media sent by UAS and UAC independently or is those
are relative?



Answer: What do you understand relative. If you have an IVR then I assume
it is relative. Announcement will be answered by an interaction of a user
e.g. DTMF or verbal answer.

[Dinoop] As explained above I meant the value of P-early media. As per the
example given above, If UAS requested *sendrecv *and the proxy allows on
backwards early media, the proxy can modify the header and sent *sendonly *=
to
UAC. Now when sending the PRACK request towards UAS proxy can indicate the
actual authorization applied. As per my understanding as like offer/answer
model it has to be *recvonly*. But considering section 8 of RFC 5009, it
must be *sendonly*.

Am I right?



On Thu, 9 Aug 2018 at 19:12,  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Where do you have found this requirement in RFC5009 or is this your own
> requirement?
>
> =E2=80=9CAs per the implementation requirement by the client, B2BUA has t=
o repeat
> the previous P-Early-Media value received from UAS towards UAC in all
> supported messages (eg 18x, Update & PRACK ) messages.=E2=80=9D
>
>
>
> Here are some answers based on your assumption.
>
>    1. How the P-Early-Media value sent by UAC is interpreted?
>
>
>
> Answer: Based on your use case, in a wrong way. Since early media is sent
> towards the UAC and not towards the UAS. So it is a wrong B2BUA
> implementation
>
> PRACK is not sent towards the UAC. If you would like to sent such
> indication towards the UAS then it should change the direction and Questi=
on
> is why it sould be sent? Because the early media could be also invoked by
> the B2BUA.
>
>
> 2) Can you please explain a P-Early-Media value of sendrecv, sendonly ,
> recvonly & inactive by UAC has to be interpreted by UAS.
>
>
>
> Answer: This is written within RFC5009 as follows: The P-Early-Media
> header field includes one or more direction parameters where each has one
> of the values: "sendrecv", "sendonly", "recvonly", or "inactive", followi=
ng
> the convention used for Session Description Protocol (SDP) [7
> ][8]
>
>
> 3) Can we treat P-Early-Media sent by UAS and UAC independently or is
> those are relative?
>
>
>
> Answer: What do you understand relative. If you have an IVR then I assume
> it is relative. Announcement will be answered by an interaction of a user
> e.g. DTMF or verbal answer.
>
>
> 4) If UAS sent P-Early-Media sendonly on 18x for enabling backward media
> and if B2BUA has to include P-Early-Media (due to some business logic) in
> PRACK request, what has to be
>
> the value (sendonly or recvonly)?. The value must not affect backward
> media flow.
>
>
>
> Answer: See the interpretation of those values above.
>
>
>
> Best Regards
>
>
> Roland
>
>
>
> *Von:* sipcore [mailto:sipcore-bounces@ietf.org] *Im Auftrag von *Dinoop
> *Gesendet:* Donnerstag, 9. August 2018 13:49
> *An:* SIPCORE 
> *Betreff:* [sipcore] Handling P-Early-Media authorization from UAC on
> PRACK and UPDATE request
>
>
>
> Hello,
>
>
>
> RFC 5009 mainly talks about early media authorization  by UAS toward UAC
> only. It is not clear how to handle the ealry media authorization request
> coming from UAC. Currently we encountered an issue on our B2BUA
> implementation.
>
> As per the implementation requirement by the client, B2BUA has to repeat
> the previous P-Early-Media value received from UAS towards UAC in all
> supported messages (eg 18x, Update & PRACK ) messages. For an example if
> UAS has sent P-Early-Media :senonly on 1st 18x, and if subsequent 18x fro=
m
> UAS doesn't contain P-Early-Media header, then B2BUA has to remember the
> P-Early-Media received on 18x and to provide it to UAC. This fine and wor=
ks
> well.
>
> The issue started occurring network when B2BUA started sending
> P-Early-Media in PRACk request towards UAS. For an example,
>
> Exported from Notepad++
>
>    UAC                      B2BUA                    UAS
>
>     |       1:INVITE(SDP)    |                        |
>
>     +----------------------->|                        |
>
>     |       2:100[INV]       |                        |
>
>     |<-----------------------+                        |
>
>     |                        |     3:INVITE(SDP)      |
>
>     |                        +----------------------->|
>
>     |                        |       4:100[INV]       |
>
>     |                        |<-----------------------+
>
>     |                        |   5:180[INVITE](SDP)   |
>
>     |                        |<-----------------------+
>
>     |    6:180[INVITE](SDP)  |P-Early-Media=3Dsendonly  |
>
>     |<-----------------------|                        |
>
>     |P-Early-Media=3Dsendonly  |                        |
>
>     |                        |   7:183[INVITE]        |
>
>     |                        |<-----------------------+
>
>     |    8:180[INVITE](SDP)  |                        |
>
>     |<-----------------------|                        |
>
>     | P-Early-Media=3Dsendonly |                        |
>
>     |                        |                        |
>
>     |   9:PRACK              |                        |
>
>     +----------------------->|   10:PRACK             |
>
>     |                        |----------------------->|
>
>     |                        | P-Early-Media=3Dsendonly |
>
>
>     The question is
> 1) How the P-Early-Media value sent by UAC is interpreted?
> 2) Can you please explain a P-Early-Media value of sendrecv, sendonly ,
> recvonly & inactive by UAC has to be interpreted by UAS.
> 3) Can we treat P-Early-Media sent by UAS and UAC independently or is
> those are relative?
> 4) If UAS sent P-Early-Media sendonly on 18x for enabling backward media
> and if B2BUA has to include P-Early-Media (due to some business logic) in
> PRACK request, what has to be the value (sendonly or recvonly)?. The
> value must not affect backward media flow.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Here you can see the message 10 B2BUA repeated the P-Early-Media value of
> that dialog towards UAS and caused issues at UAS.
>
> The question is
> 1) How the P-Early-Media value sent by UAC is interpreted?
> 2) Can you please explain a P-Early-Media value of sendrecv, sendonly ,
> recvonly & inactive by UAC has to be interpreted by UAS.
> 3) Can we treat P-Early-Media sent by UAS and UAC independently or is
> those are relative?
> 4) If UAS sent P-Early-Media sendonly on 18x for enabling backward media
> and if B2BUA has to include P-Early-Media (due to some business logic) in
> PRACK request, what has to be the value (sendonly or recvonly)?. The valu=
e
> must not affect backward media flow.
>
>
> --
>
> Thanks
> Dinoop p
>


--=20
Thanks & Regards
Dinoop p



--=20
Thanks & Regards
Dinoop p

--00000000000071e2ff057312443c
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


Including sipcore@ietf=
.org

----------=
 Forwarded message ---------
From: Dinoop <dinoop.p1@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2018 at 15:57Subject: Re: [sipcore] Handling P-Early-Media authorization from UAC on PR=
ACK and UPDATE request
To:  <R=
.Jesske@telekom.de>


Hello Jes=
ske,

Thanks for the explanation. The following poi=
nts has to be clarified

As per RFC 5009 6.Overvie=
w of Operation , it is stated that,
"
   The UAC and proxies in the network may a=
lso insert, delete, or modify
   the P-Early-Media header field in messages towards the UAS within the
   dialog according to local policy, but the interpretation of the
   header field when used in this way is a matter of local policy and
   not defined herein.  The use of direction parameter(s) in this header
   field could be used to inform the UAS of the final early media
   authorization status.


"
It is allowed to send the P-Early-Media by UAC/proxy towar=
ds UAS and is interpreted based on the local policy. Having said that, ther=
e is no standard defined to generalize the usage. An example given above is=
 to inform the UAS about the actual authorization which is applied. 

For an example suppose the UAS requested early media authorizat=
ion of sendrecv in reliable 18x response and the proxy responsible f=
or media authorization for UAC modified it to=20
sendonly and=C2=A0 sent towards UAC. It is because the local policy =
allows=20
only=C2=A0=20

backward media Now if the proxy wants to inform the UAS about the actually =
applied media authorization it can insert a=20
P-Early-Media with value of sendonly in the PRACK request sent to UA=
S.=C2=A0 

Is this correct.? I used the value s=
endonly in PRACK request according to the following section 8.The P-Early-=
Media Header Field,

"


   The parameter value &=
quot;sendrecv" indicates a request for authorization
   of early media associated with the corresponding media line, both
   from the UAS towards the UAC and from the UAC towards the UAS (both
   backward and forward early media).  The value "sendonly" indic=
ates a
   request for authorization of early media from the UAS towards the UAC
   (backward early media), and not in the other direction.  The value
   "recvonly" indicates a request for authorization of early medi=
a from
   the UAC towards the UAS (forward early media), and not in the other
   direction.  The value "inactive" indicates either a request th=
at no
   early media associated with the corresponding media line be
   authorized, or a request for revocation of authorization of
   previously authorized early media.


"

It=C2=A0 states that the value of=
=20
P-Early-Media has is absolute and the value sendonly always indicate=
s backwards early media. ie. If UAC/Proxy includes P-Early-Media:sendonl=
y in PRACK request towards UAS informs UAS that only backward media is =
authorized. 
Can you confirm whether this is the correct unde=
rstanding?
(I know in offer/answer model the direction attributes=
 are relative and one must sent SDP answer with a=3Drecvonly/inactive for t=
he offer received with a=3Dsendonly)


My reply for your questions are follows,



  1. How the P-Early-Media value sent by UAC is int=
erpreted?




Answ=
er:
 Based on your use case, in a wrong way. Since early media is sent=20
towards the UAC and not towards the UAS. So it is a wrong B2BUA=20
implementation


PRAC=
K
 is not sent towards the UAC. 

[Dinoop]: Sorry I made it confusing. I mean the PRACK =
request towards UAS only.=C2=A0

If you would like t=
o sent such indication=20
towards the UAS then it should change the direction 
[Dinoop] But=
 as per section=20
8.The P-Early-Media Header Field,stated above the value is absolute. C=
an you please check?

and Question is why=20
it sould be sent? Because the early media
 could be also invoked by the B2BUA.
[Dinoop] Our B2BUA implementatio=
n=C2=A0 do not insert P-Early-Media header towards UAS. But it has to be re=
ady to expect the header from UAC. Because it is allowed as per RFC


3) Can we treat P-Early-Media sent by UAS and UAC independently or is those=
 are relative?


=C2=
=A0


Answ=
er:
 What do you understand relative. If you have an IVR then I assume it is
 relative. Announcement will be answered by an interaction of a user=20
e.g. DTMF or verbal answer.
[Dinoop] As explained above I meant the v=
alue of P-early media. As per the example given above, If UAS requested =
sendrecv and the proxy allows on backwards early media, the proxy can m=
odify the header and sent sendonly to UAC. Now when sending the PRAC=
K request towards UAS proxy can indicate the actual authorization applied. =
As per my understanding as like offer/answer model it has to be recvonly=
. But considering section 8 of RFC 5009, it must be sendonly.
Am I right?



On Thu, 9 Aug 2018 a=
t 19:12, <R.Jes=
ske@telekom.de> wrote:











Hi,


Where do you have found this re=
quirement in RFC5009 or is this your own requirement?<=
/p>

=E2=80=9CAs per the implementat=
ion requirement by the client, B2BUA has to repeat the previous P-Early-Med=
ia value received from UAS towards UAC in all supported messages (eg 18x, U=
pdate & PRACK ) messages.=E2=80=9D


=C2=A0


Here are some answers based on =
your assumption.


    

  1. How the P-Early-Media value s=
ent by UAC is interpreted?



=C2=A0


An=
swer: Based on your use case, in a wrong way. Since early media is sent tow=
ards the UAC and not towards the UAS. So it is a wrong B2BUA implementation=



PR=
ACK is not sent towards the UAC. If you would like to sent such indication =
towards the UAS then it should change the direction and Question is why it =
sould be sent? Because the early media
 could be also invoked by the B2BUA.



2) Can you please explain a P-Early-Media value of sendrecv, sendonly , rec=
vonly & inactive by UAC has to be interpreted by UAS.



=C2=A0


An=
swer: This is written within RFC5009 as follows:
The P-Early-Media header field includes one or mor=
e direction parameters where each has one of the values: "sendrecv&quo=
t;, "sendonly", "recvonly", or "inactive", fo=
llowing the convention used for Session Description Protocol (SDP) [7][8]



3) Can we treat P-Early-Media sent by UAS and UAC independently or is those=
 are relative?


=C2=A0


An=
swer: What do you understand relative. If you have an IVR then I assume it =
is relative. Announcement will be answered by an interaction of a user e.g.=
 DTMF or verbal answer.



4) If UAS sent P-Early-Media sendonly on 18x for enabling backward media an=
d if B2BUA has to include P-Early-Media (due to some business logic) in PRA=
CK request, what has to be



th=
e value (sendonly or recvonly)?. The value must not affect backward media f=
low.


=C2=A0


An=
swer: See the interpretation of those values above.

=C2=A0


Best Regards<=
/u>




Roland


=C2=A0








Von: sipcore [mailto:sipcore-bounces@ietf.org] Im A=
uftrag von
Dinoop

Gesendet: Donnerstag, 9. August 2018 13:49

An: SIPCORE <sipcore@ietf.org>

Betreff: [sipcore] Handling P-Early-Media authorization from UAC on =
PRACK and UPDATE request






=C2=A0






Hello,






=C2=A0






RFC 5009 mainly talks about early media authorizatio=
n=C2=A0 by UAS toward UAC only. It is not clear how to handle the ealry med=
ia authorization request coming from UAC. Currently we encountered an issue=
 on our B2BUA implementation.



As per the implementation requirement by the client, B2BUA has to repeat th=
e previous P-Early-Media value received from UAS towards UAC in all support=
ed messages (eg 18x, Update & PRACK ) messages. For an example if UAS h=
as sent P-Early-Media :senonly on 1st
 18x, and if subsequent 18x from UAS doesn't contain P-Early-Media head=
er, then B2BUA has to remember the P-Early-Media received on 18x and to pro=
vide it to UAC. This fine and works well.



The issue started occurring network when B2BUA started sending P-Early-Medi=
a in PRACk request towards UAS. For an example,



Exported from Notepad++ 




=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0UAC=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 B2BUA=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 UAS


=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 1:INVITE(SDP)=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |


=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +-=
---------------------->|=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |



=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0|=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 2:100[INV]=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0 |



=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0|<-----------------------+=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |



=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0|=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 3:INVITE(SDP)=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |



=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0|=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +----=
------------------->|



=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0|=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 4:100[INV]=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0 |



=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0|=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |<=
-----------------------+



=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0|=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=
=A0=C2=A0 5:180[INVITE](SDP)=C2=A0=C2=A0 |



=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0|=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |<=
-----------------------+=C2=A0=C2=A0



=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0|=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 6:180[INVITE](SDP)=C2=A0 |P-Early-Media=3Dsendonly=
=C2=A0 |


=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |&=
lt;-----------------------|=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |


=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |P=
-Early-Media=3Dsendonly=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |



=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0|=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=
=A0=C2=A0 7:183[INVITE]=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |



=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0|=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |<=
-----------------------+=C2=A0=C2=A0



=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0|=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 8:180[INVITE](SDP)=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |


=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |&=
lt;-----------------------|=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |


=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 | =
P-Early-Media=3Dsendonly |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |



=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0|=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |


=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=
=C2=A0=C2=A0 9:PRACK=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |


=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +-=
---------------------->|=C2=A0=C2=A0 10:PRACK=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=



=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |----------=
------------->|


=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 | P-Early-M=
edia=3Dsendonly |






=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 The question is 

1) How the P-Early-Media value sent by UAC is interpreted? 

2) Can you please explain a P-Early-Media value of sendrecv, sendonly , rec=
vonly & inactive by UAC has to be interpreted by UAS.


3) Can we treat P-Early-Media sent by UAS and UAC independently or is those=
 are relative?

4) If UAS sent P-Early-Media sendonly on 18x for enabling backward media an=
d if B2BUA has to include P-Early-Media (due to some business logic) in PRA=
CK request, what has to be the value (sendonly or recvonly)?.
The value must not affect backward media flow.






=C2=A0






=C2=A0






=C2=A0






=C2=A0






=C2=A0






=C2=A0






=C2=A0






=C2=A0






=C2=A0






=C2=A0






=C2=A0






=C2=A0






=C2=A0






=C2=A0






=C2=A0






=C2=A0






=C2=A0






=C2=A0






=C2=A0






=C2=A0






=C2=A0






=C2=A0






Here you can see the message 10 B2BUA repeated the P=
-Early-Media value of that dialog towards UAS and caused issues at UAS.




The question is 

1) How the P-Early-Media value sent by UAC is interpreted? 

2) Can you please explain a P-Early-Media value of sendrecv, sendonly , rec=
vonly & inactive by UAC has to be interpreted by UAS.


3) Can we treat P-Early-Media sent by UAS and UAC independently or is those=
 are relative?

4) If UAS sent P-Early-Media sendonly on 18x for enabling backward media an=
d if B2BUA has to include P-Early-Media (due to some business logic) in PRA=
CK request, what has to be the value (sendonly or recvonly)?. The value mus=
t not affect backward media flow.









-- 




Thanks 

Dinoop p

















-- 
Th=
anks & Regards
Dinoop p





-- 
Thanks & Regards
Dinoop p
<=
br>


--00000000000071e2ff057312443c--


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From: Christer Holmberg 
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Thread-Topic: [sipcore] SIP Push: Wrong usage of "registrar" terminology and clarification of location of push proxy  - Pull request
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Archived-At: 
Subject: Re: [sipcore] SIP Push: Wrong usage of "registrar" terminology and clarification of location of push proxy - Pull request
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--_000_D7934E2033EDFchristerholmbergericssoncom_
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Hi,

I have created a pull request that addresses the wrong usage of =93registra=
r=94 terminology. =93Registrar=94 now only refers to the entity handing REG=
ISTER requests.

In addition, I also clarified that the push proxy needs to be in the signal=
ling path between the UA and the home proxy of the UA (i.e., the proxy that=
 retargets requests sent towards the UA).

There are also some pure editorial fixes based on Ben=92s comment:

https://github.com/cdh4u/draft-sip-push/pull/18

Regards,

Christer

From: sipcore > o=
n behalf of Christer Holmberg >
Date: Thursday 9 August 2018 at 22:02
To: "sipcore@ietf.org" >
Subject: [sipcore] SIP Push: Wrong usage of "registrar" terminology and cla=
rification of location of push proxy

Hi,

Ben and Robert raised on issue regarding the usage of =93registrar=94, and =
that the location of the push proxy needs to clarification.

Regarding usage of =93registrar=94, in some places the text indicates that =
the registrar forwards SIP requests towards the UA, and that the push proxy=
 may in the registrar.

Now, that is not true. A registrar only processes REGISTER request. It does=
 not forward SIP requests.

Instead, the text should talk about =93the proxy responsible for the UA=92s=
 domain=94 (terminology used in RFCC 3261), i.e., the proxy that replaces t=
he AOR of an incoming request with the registered contact (including the pn=
- URI parameters). Sometimes that is called =93home proxy=94, =93S-CSCF=94 =
(IMS) etc. That proxy fetches the registered contact from the registrar =96=
 or from wherever the registrar has stored the contact information.


Regarding the location of the push proxy, it needs to be more clear that it=
 must to be located between the UA and the =93home proxy=94 (or in the home=
 proxy). Otherwise the request will not contain the pn- URI paramters.

Regards,

Christer

--_000_D7934E2033EDFchristerholmbergericssoncom_
Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252"
Content-ID: 
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable







Hi,







I have created a pull request that addresses the wrong usage of =93reg=
istrar=94 terminology. =93Registrar=94 now only refers to the entity handin=
g REGISTER requests.







In addition, I also clarified that the push proxy needs to be in the s=
ignalling path between the UA and the home proxy of the UA (i.e., the proxy=
 that retargets requests sent towards the UA).







There are also some pure editorial fixes based on Ben=92s comment:












Regards,







Christer









From: sipcore <sipcore-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Ch=
rister Holmberg <chris=
ter.holmberg@ericsson.com>

Date: Thursday 9 August 2018 at 22:=
02

To: "sipcore@ietf.org" <sipcore@ietf.org>

Subject: [sipcore] SIP Push: Wrong =
usage of "registrar" terminology and clarification of location of=
 push proxy

















Hi,


 


Ben and Robert raised on issue regarding the usage o=
f =93registrar=94, and that the location of the push proxy needs to clarifi=
cation.


 


Regarding usage of =93registrar=94, in some places t=
he text indicates that the registrar forwards SIP requests towards the UA, =
and that the push proxy may in the registrar.


 


Now, that is not true. A registrar only processes RE=
GISTER request. It does not forward SIP requests.


 


Instead, the text should talk about =93the proxy res=
ponsible for the UA=92s domain=94 (terminology used in RFCC 3261), i.e., th=
e proxy that replaces the AOR of an incoming request with the registered co=
ntact (including the pn- URI parameters).
 Sometimes that is called =93home proxy=94, =93S-CSCF=94 (IMS) etc. That pr=
oxy fetches the registered contact from the registrar =96 or from wherever =
the registrar has stored the contact information.


 


 


Regarding the location of the push proxy, it needs t=
o be more clear that it must to be located between the UA and the =93home p=
roxy=94 (or in the home proxy). Otherwise the request will not contain the =
pn- URI paramters.


 


Regards,


 


Christer











--_000_D7934E2033EDFchristerholmbergericssoncom_--


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From: Christer Holmberg 
To: "sipcore@ietf.org" 
Thread-Topic: SIP Push: Text about taking transaction timeout of UAC into account - Pull request
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Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2018 13:06:36 +0000
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Subject: [sipcore] SIP Push: Text about taking transaction timeout of UAC into account - Pull request
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--_000_1e6176d949304b48b5b9308fe530c210ericssoncom_
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Hi,

Based on the comments from Ben and Robert, I have updated the previous pull=
 request, adding text about the push proxy taking into account transaction =
timeouts when deciding for how long to wait for a push notification request=
 to succeed, and the associated REGISTER request to arrive.

I also added a note with a typical duration time for the REGISTER to arrive=
 (from when the push notification request has been sent), based on tests.

The pull request:

https://github.com/cdh4u/draft-sip-push/pull/18

The commit specific to this topic:

https://github.com/cdh4u/draft-sip-push/pull/18/commits/486c82748b9f20b2331=
47d0ab01778a84a9ae734

Regards,

Christer



--_000_1e6176d949304b48b5b9308fe530c210ericssoncom_
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Hi,


 


Based on the comments from Ben and Robert, I have up=
dated the previous pull request, adding text about the push proxy taking in=
to account transaction timeouts when deciding for how long to wait for a pu=
sh notification request to succeed,
 and the associated REGISTER request to arrive.


 


I also added a note with a typical duration time for=
 the REGISTER to arrive (from when the push notification request has been s=
ent), based on tests.


 


The pull request:


 


https://github.com/cdh4u/draft-sip-push/pull/18


 


The commit specific to this topic:


 


https://github.com=
/cdh4u/draft-sip-push/pull/18/commits/486c82748b9f20b233147d0ab01778a84a9ae=
734


 


Regards,


 


Christer


 


 






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From: Christer Holmberg 
To: Roman Shpount 
CC: "sipcore@ietf.org" 
Thread-Topic: [sipcore] SIP Push Change Proposal: Proxy forwarding SIP request towards UA once it receives REGISTER request, without waiting for REGISTER response
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From: Roman Shpount 
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2018 14:36:52 +0300
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To: Christer Holmberg 
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Subject: Re: [sipcore] SIP Push Change Proposal: Proxy forwarding SIP request towards UA once it receives REGISTER request, without waiting for REGISTER response
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Chris,

I am not sure if PRID is long enough to be considered cryptographically
secure. In any case, including a cryptographically secure token in contact
should be sufficient to solve this issue.

Regards,

_____________
Roman Shpount

On Sat, Aug 11, 2018 at 2:32 PM, Christer Holmberg <
christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
>
>
> One more note on this.
>
>
>
> In addition to the contact address, a malicious user would also need to
> have access to the PRID.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> Christer
>
>
>
> *From:* Roman Shpount [mailto:roman@telurix.com]
> *Sent:* 09 August 2018 18:51
>
> *To:* Christer Holmberg 
> *Cc:* sipcore@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [sipcore] SIP Push Change Proposal: Proxy forwarding SIP
> request towards UA once it receives REGISTER request, without waiting for
> REGISTER response
>
>
>
> Hi Christer,
>
>
>
> This is fine. We can specify that REGISTER message MUST be authenticated
> before any stored messages are sent over this connection. This
> authentication can either be based on success response to REGISTER messag=
e,
> or some other mechanism, such as security token.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
> _____________
> Roman Shpount
>
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 9, 2018 at 6:43 PM, Christer Holmberg <
> christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Roman,
>
>
>
> I am not suggesting that we define a mechanism, or define what mechanism
> to use (different environments and architectures may use different ones)
> simply that we would allow forwarding the request if such mechanism is in
> place.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> Christer
>
>
>
> *From:* Roman Shpount [mailto:roman@telurix.com]
> *Sent:* 09 August 2018 18:39
> *To:* Christer Holmberg 
> *Cc:* sipcore@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [sipcore] SIP Push Change Proposal: Proxy forwarding SIP
> request towards UA once it receives REGISTER request, without waiting for
> REGISTER response
>
>
>
> Christer,
>
>
>
> In our implementation of something similar, we sent update SIP nonce in
> the push message. Proxy server had access to the credentials digest, so
> when REGISTER message was received, it was immediately authenticated and
> stored messages were sent to the client.
>
>
>
> I am sure there can be other ways to implement the same thing. One
> possible solution is to require some sort of securely generated token add=
ed
> to the contact that can be used to validate that REGISTER message came fr=
om
> the same UA. Another solution is to use TLS connection ticket to store
> signed UA contact and use it to make sure this is the same UA (in which
> case you might not even need to receive and process the REGISTER message =
at
> all). In any case, if we want to change sending stored message before
> success response to the REGISTER message, we will need to add some sort o=
f
> authentication protection to prevent connection hijack.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
> _____________
> Roman Shpount
>
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 9, 2018 at 6:14 PM, Christer Holmberg <
> christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Roman,
>
> > SIP Push is supposed to be used in combination with server side NAT
> traversal. REGISTER message is used to re-establish connection
> > from the client to the proxy so that message can be sent to the client.
> Proxy stores connection information from which the REGISTER
> > message was received (remote transport, address and port) and forwards
> all messages for the associated registration over this connection.
> > So, if registration for the same contact is sent from a different
> origination address/port, all messages for this contact will be sent to t=
he
> new
> > destination. If REGISTER message is not authenticated before connection
> information is updated, messages associated with the registration
> > can be redirected to the attacker which can be used to intercept calls.
>
> You are right.
>
> But, what if the signalling between the UA and the proxy is protected
> (e.g, using an IPSec tunnel), or the proxy has other means to ensure that
> the REGISTER comes from the same UA as the previous REGISTER (with the sa=
me
> contact)?
>
> Regards,
>
> Christer
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
> _____________
> Roman Shpount
>
> On Thu, Aug 9, 2018 at 5:23 PM, Christer Holmberg <
> christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:
> Hi Roman,
>
> How would it hijack the call?  If the malicious party inserts its own
> contact the proxy will not forward the request, as the R-URI does not mat=
ch
> the contact.
>
> Regards,
>
> Christer
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On 9 Aug 2018, at 16.56, Roman Shpount  wrote:
> Christer,
>
> If proxy does not wait for REGISTER message response, then REGISTER
> message is not yet authenticated. In this case, malicious party can use
> such REGISTER message to hijack the flow and take over the call.
>
> Regards,
>
>
> _____________
> Roman Shpount
>
> On Thu, Aug 9, 2018 at 4:44 PM, Christer Holmberg <
> christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Currently the SIP Push specification says that, when the "push proxy"
> receives a REGISTER request from a UA (triggered by the push notification=
)
> I will wait for the REGISTER response before it forwards a SIP request
> towards the UA, to make sure that the contact in the REGISTER request has
> been accepted by the registrar.
>
> Ben commented that proxies don=E2=80=99t normally do that (they will forw=
ard SIP
> requests using the routing information within the request) and asked
> whether there is a technical reason why the push proxy waits for the
> REGISTER response.
>
> From a push perspective, there is no technical reason to wait for the
> REGISTER response. The push proxy can forward the SIP request towards the
> UA as soon as it receives the REGISTER request (assuming the contact in t=
he
> REGISTER request matches the R-URI of the SIP request).
>
> My suggestion is that we change the behaviour, so that the proxy forwards
> the SIP request as soon as it receives the REGISTER request. It simplifie=
s
> things, and it also ensures that the SIP request reaches the UA faster (a=
s
> the push proxy does not need to wait for the REGISTER response).
>
> Does anyone object to such change?
>
> Regards,
>
> Christer
>
> _______________________________________________
> sipcore mailing list
> sipcore@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore
>
>
>
>
>

--000000000000da64d10573274600
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


Chris,

I am not sure if PRID is long en=
ough to be considered cryptographically secure. In any case, including a cr=
yptographically secure token in contact should be sufficient to solve this =
issue.

Regards,

_____________
Roman Shpount


On Sat, Aug 11, 2018 at 2:32 PM, Christer Ho=
lmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:<=
br>











Hi,


=C2=A0


One more note on this.<=
/span>


=C2=A0


In addition to the contact address, a=
 malicious user would also need to have access to the PRID.


=C2=A0


Regards,


=C2=A0


Christer


<=
span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;c=
olor:#1f497d">=C2=A0


From: =
Roman Shpount [mailto:roman@telurix.com]


Sent: 09 August 2018 18:51


To: Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com>

Cc: sipcore@ie=
tf.org

Subject: Re: [sipcore] SIP Push Change Proposal: Proxy forwarding SI=
P request towards UA once it receives REGISTER request, without waiting for=
 REGISTER response


=C2=A0




Hi Christer,




=C2=A0






This is fine. We can specify that REGISTER message M=
UST be authenticated before any stored messages are sent over this connecti=
on. This authentication can either be based on success response to REGISTER=
 message, or some other mechanism,
 such as security token.






=C2=A0






Regards,

















_____________

Roman Shpount






=C2=A0




On Thu, Aug 9, 2018 at 6:43 PM, Christer Holmberg &l=
t;chris=
ter.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:








Hi Roman,


=C2=A0


I am not suggesting that we define a =
mechanism, or define what mechanism to use (different environments
 and architectures may use different ones) simply that we would allow forwa=
rding the request if such mechanism is in place.


=C2=A0


Regards,


=C2=A0


Christer


=C2=A0


From: =
Roman
 Shpount [mailto:rom=
an@telurix.com]


Sent: 09 August 2018 18:39

To: Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com>

Cc: sipcore@ie=
tf.org

Subject: Re: [sipcore] SIP Push Change Proposal: Proxy forwarding SI=
P request towards UA once it receives REGISTER request, without waiting for=
 REGISTER response






=C2=A0




Christer,




=C2=A0






In our implementation of something similar, we sent =
update SIP nonce in the push message. Proxy server had access to the creden=
tials digest, so when REGISTER message was received,
 it was immediately authenticated and stored messages were sent to the clie=
nt.=C2=A0






=C2=A0






I am sure there can be other ways to implement the s=
ame thing. One possible solution is to require some sort of securely genera=
ted token added to the contact that can be used to
 validate that REGISTER message came from the same UA. Another solution is =
to use TLS connection ticket to store signed UA contact and use it to make =
sure this is the same UA (in which case you might not even need to receive =
and process the REGISTER message
 at all). In any case, if we want to change sending stored message before s=
uccess response to the REGISTER message, we will need to add some sort of a=
uthentication protection to prevent connection hijack.






=C2=A0






Regards,

















_____________

Roman Shpount






=C2=A0




On Thu, Aug 9, 2018 at 6:14 PM, Christer Holmberg &l=
t;chris=
ter.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:




Hi Roman,



> SIP Push is supposed to be used in combination with server side NAT tr=
aversal. REGISTER message is used to re-establish connection


> from the client to the proxy so that message can be sent to the client=
. Proxy stores connection information from which the REGISTER


> message was received (remote transport,=C2=A0address and port) and for=
wards all messages for the associated registration over this connection.


> So, if registration for the same contact is sent from a different orig=
ination address/port, all messages for this contact will be sent to the new


> destination. If REGISTER message is not authenticated before connectio=
n information is updated, messages associated with the registration


> can be redirected to the attacker which can be used to intercept calls=
.



You are right. 



But, what if the signalling between the UA and the proxy is protected (e.g,=
 using an IPSec tunnel), or the proxy has other means to ensure that the RE=
GISTER comes from the same UA as the previous REGISTER (with the same conta=
ct)?



Regards,



Christer










Regards,





_____________

Roman Shpount



On Thu, Aug 9, 2018 at 5:23 PM, Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.<=
wbr>com> wrote:

Hi Roman, 



How would it hijack the call?=C2=A0 If the malicious party inserts its own =
contact the proxy will not forward the request, as the R-URI does not match=
 the contact.



Regards,



Christer

Sent from my iPhone



On 9 Aug 2018, at 16.56, Roman Shpount <roman@telurix.com> wrote:

Christer, 



If proxy does not wait for REGISTER message response, then REGISTER message=
 is not yet authenticated. In this case, malicious party can use such REGIS=
TER message to hijack the flow and take over the call.



Regards,





_____________

Roman Shpount



On Thu, Aug 9, 2018 at 4:44 PM, Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.<=
wbr>com> wrote:

Hi,



Currently the SIP Push specification says that, when the "push proxy&q=
uot; receives a REGISTER request from a UA (triggered by the push notificat=
ion) I will wait for the REGISTER response before it forwards a SIP request=
 towards the UA, to make sure that the contact
 in the REGISTER request has been accepted by the registrar.



Ben commented that proxies don=E2=80=99t normally do that (they will forwar=
d SIP requests using the routing information within the request) and asked =
whether there is a technical reason why the push proxy waits for the REGIST=
ER response.



>From a push perspective, there is no technical reason to wait for the REGIS=
TER response. The push proxy can forward the SIP request towards the UA as =
soon as it receives the REGISTER request (assuming the contact in the REGIS=
TER request matches the R-URI of
 the SIP request).



My suggestion is that we change the behaviour, so that the proxy forwards t=
he SIP request as soon as it receives the REGISTER request. It simplifies t=
hings, and it also ensures that the SIP request reaches the UA faster (as t=
he push proxy does not need to wait
 for the REGISTER response).



Does anyone object to such change?



Regards,



Christer



_______________________________________________

sipcore mailing list

sipcore@ietf.org<=
br>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore










=C2=A0
















=C2=A0












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From: Christer Holmberg 
To: Roman Shpount 
CC: "sipcore@ietf.org" 
Thread-Topic: [sipcore] SIP Push Change Proposal: Proxy forwarding SIP request towards UA once it receives REGISTER request, without waiting for REGISTER response
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From: Christer Holmberg 
To: "sipcore@ietf.org" 
Thread-Topic: SIP Push: re-registration -> binding refresh
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Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2018 17:14:45 +0000
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Hi,

Ben had a comment that instead of "re-registration REGISTER" we should say =
"binding refresh REGISTER".

I have updated the pull request with a commit making that change:

https://github.com/cdh4u/draft-sip-push/pull/18/commits/344d8657a214bde9036=
d7f1db0b0e0dc4fb62bff

Regards,

Christer

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Hi,


 


Ben had a comment that instead of “re-registra=
tion REGISTER” we should say “binding refresh REGISTER”.<=
o:p>


 


I have updated the pull request with a commit making=
 that change:


 


https://github.com=
/cdh4u/draft-sip-push/pull/18/commits/344d8657a214bde9036d7f1db0b0e0dc4fb62=
bff


 


Regards,


 


Christer






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From: Christer Holmberg 
To: "sipcore@ietf.org" 
CC: Roman Shpount 
Thread-Topic: [sipcore] SIP Push Change Proposal: Proxy forwarding SIP request towards UA once it receives REGISTER request, without waiting for REGISTER response - Pull request
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From: Christer Holmberg 
To: "sipcore@ietf.org" 
Thread-Topic: Draft new version: SIP Push-12
Thread-Index: AQHUM5ruoItSmZb0OkGB5AhCTy0zzg==
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2018 06:49:22 +0000
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Subject: [sipcore] Draft new version: SIP Push-12
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--_000_D79857F334394christerholmbergericssoncom_
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Hi,

I have submitted a new version (-12) of SIP Push, based on the comments fro=
m Ben and Robert.

Some comments have not yet been addressed in the new version, because I am =
still waiting for Ben to reply.

Regards,

Christer

--_000_D79857F334394christerholmbergericssoncom_
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Hi,







I have submitted a new version (-12) of SIP Push, based on the comment=
s from Ben and Robert.







Some comments have not yet been addressed in the new version, because =
I am still waiting for Ben to reply.







Regards,







Christer




--_000_D79857F334394christerholmbergericssoncom_--


From nobody Mon Aug 13 23:54:08 2018
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Session Initiation Protocol Core WG of the IETF.

        Title           : Push Notification with the Session Initiation Protocol (SIP)
        Authors         : Christer Holmberg
                          Michael Arnold
	Filename        : draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-12.txt
	Pages           : 26
	Date            : 2018-08-13

Abstract:
   This document describes how a Push Notification Service (PNS) can be
   used to awake suspended Session Initiation Protocol (SIP) User Agents
   (UAs), using push notifications, for the UA to be able to send
   binding refresh REGISTER requests and to receive receive incoming SIP
   requests.  The document defines new SIP URI parameters and new
   feature-capability indicators that can be used in SIP messages to
   indicate support of the mechanism defined in this document, to
   exchange PNS information between the SIP User Agent (UA) and the SIP
   entity that will request push notifications towards the UA, and to
   trigger such push notification requests.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-12
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-12

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-12


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


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To: Christer Holmberg , "sipcore@ietf.org" 
References: 
From: Robert Sparks 
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Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2018 10:49:12 -0500
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Thanks for this Christer.

I think the draft needs to say even more about the issues related to a 
delay in processing non-INVITE transactions.

I've created a pull-request with suggested text at 
.

RjS

On 8/14/18 1:49 AM, Christer Holmberg wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have submitted a new version (-12) of SIP Push, based on the 
> comments from Ben and Robert.
>
> Some comments have not yet been addressed in the new version, because 
> I am still waiting for Ben to reply.
>
> Regards,
>
> Christer
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sipcore mailing list
> sipcore@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore


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Thanks for this Christer.

    
I think the draft needs to say even more about the issues related
      to a delay in processing non-INVITE transactions.

    
I've created a pull-request with suggested text at
      <https://github.com/cdh4u/draft-sip-push/pull/19>.

    
RjS

    

    
On 8/14/18 1:49 AM, Christer Holmberg
      wrote:

    

    

      
      
Hi,

      


      

      
I have submitted a new version (-12) of SIP Push, based on
        the comments from Ben and Robert.

      


      

      
Some comments have not yet been addressed in the new version,
        because I am still waiting for Ben to reply.

      


      

      
Regards,

      


      

      
Christer

      

      

      

      
_______________________________________________
sipcore mailing list
sipcore@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore


    

    

  


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To: Robert Sparks 
Cc: Christer Holmberg , "sipcore@ietf.org" 
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Robert and Christer,

I have a question: Does anybody plan to use SIP Push with non-INVITE
non-dialog translations? Should this just be left for the future work,
possibly along the lines suggested by Robert with immediate retry-after
response?

Regards,

_____________
Roman Shpount

On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 11:49 AM, Robert Sparks 
wrote:

> Thanks for this Christer.
>
> I think the draft needs to say even more about the issues related to a
> delay in processing non-INVITE transactions.
>
> I've created a pull-request with suggested text at
> 
> .
>
> RjS
> On 8/14/18 1:49 AM, Christer Holmberg wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I have submitted a new version (-12) of SIP Push, based on the comments
> from Ben and Robert.
>
> Some comments have not yet been addressed in the new version, because I am
> still waiting for Ben to reply.
>
> Regards,
>
> Christer
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sipcore mailing listsipcore@ietf.orghttps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sipcore mailing list
> sipcore@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore
>
>

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Robert and Christer,

I have a question:=
 Does anybody plan to use SIP Push with non-INVITE non-dialog translations?=
 Should this just be left for the future work, possibly along the lines sug=
gested by Robert with immediate retry-after response?

<=
div>Regards,

<=
div class=3D"gmail_signature" data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature">__________=
___
Roman Shpount


On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 11:49 AM, Robert Spa=
rks <rjsparks@nostrum.com> wrote:

 =20
   =20
 =20
  

    
Thanks for this Christer.

    
I think the draft needs to say even more about the issues related
      to a delay in processing non-INVITE transactions.

    
I've created a pull-request with suggested text at
      <https://g=
ithub.com/cdh4u/draft-sip-push/pull/19>.

    
RjS

    

    
On 8/14/18 1:49 AM,=
 Christer Holmberg
      wrote:

    

    

     =20
      
Hi,

      


      

      
I have submitted a new version (-12) of SIP Push, based on
        the comments from Ben and Robert.

      


      

      
Some comments have not yet been addressed in the new version,
        because I am still waiting for Ben to reply.

      


      

      
Regards,

      


      

      
Christer

      

      

      

      
_______________________________________________
sipcore mailing list
sipcore@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/=
mailman/listinfo/sipcore


    

    

  



_______________________________________________

sipcore mailing list

sipcore@ietf.org

https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore<=
br>




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From: Christer Holmberg 
To: Roman Shpount , Robert Sparks 
CC: "sipcore@ietf.org" 
Thread-Topic: [sipcore] Draft new version: SIP Push-12
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Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2018 12:33:58 -0500
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Subject: Re: [sipcore] Draft new version: SIP Push-12
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On 8/14/18 11:32 AM, Christer Holmberg wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> *>*Robert and Christer,
>
> >
>
> >I have a question: Does anybody plan to use SIP Push with non-INVITE 
> non-dialog >translations? Should this just be left for the future 
> work, possibly along the lines >suggested by Robert with immediate 
> retry-after response?
>
> SIP Push is used with SIP MESSAGE. But, at least according to the 
> implementing/testing/deployment people I have been talking to 
> transaction timeouts have not been an issue.
>
Keep NOTIFY in mind...
>
> Regards,
>
> Christer
>
>
> _____________
> Roman Shpount
>
> On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 11:49 AM, Robert Sparks  > wrote:
>
>     Thanks for this Christer.
>
>     I think the draft needs to say even more about the issues related
>     to a delay in processing non-INVITE transactions.
>
>     I've created a pull-request with suggested text at
>     
>     .
>
>     RjS
>
>     On 8/14/18 1:49 AM, Christer Holmberg wrote:
>
>         Hi,
>
>         I have submitted a new version (-12) of SIP Push, based on the
>         comments from Ben and Robert.
>
>         Some comments have not yet been addressed in the new version,
>         because I am still waiting for Ben to reply.
>
>         Regards,
>
>         Christer
>
>         _______________________________________________
>
>         sipcore mailing list
>
>         sipcore@ietf.org 
>
>         https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore
>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     sipcore mailing list
>     sipcore@ietf.org 
>     https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore
>


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On 8/14/18 11:32 AM, Christer Holmberg
      wrote:

    

    

      
      
      
      

        
Hi,

        
 

        

          
>Robert and Christer,

          

            
> 

          

          

            
>I
              have a question: Does anybody plan to use SIP Push with
              non-INVITE non-dialog
              >translations?
              Should this just be left for the future work, possibly
              along the lines
              >suggested by Robert
              with immediate retry-after response?

          

          

            
 

            
SIP
                Push is used with SIP MESSAGE. But, at least according
                to the implementing/testing/deployment people I have
                been talking to transaction timeouts have not been an
                issue.

          

        

      

    

    Keep NOTIFY in mind...

    

      

        

          

            

            
 

            
Regards,

            
 

            
Christer

            
 

          

        

        

          


            

          

            

              
_____________

                Roman Shpount

            

          

          
 

          

            
On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 11:49 AM,
              Robert Sparks <rjsparks@nostrum.com>
              wrote:

            

              

                
Thanks for this Christer.

                
I think the draft needs to say even more about the
                  issues related to a delay in processing non-INVITE
                  transactions.

                
I've created a pull-request with suggested text at 
<https://github.com/cdh4u/draft-sip-push/pull/19>.

                
RjS

                

                  

                    

                      
On 8/14/18 1:49 AM, Christer
                        Holmberg wrote:

                    

                  

                

                

                  

                    

                      

                        
Hi,

                      

                      

                        
 

                      

                      

                        
I have submitted a new
                          version (-12) of SIP Push, based on the
                          comments from Ben and Robert.

                      

                      

                        
 

                      

                      

                        
Some comments have not yet
                          been addressed in the new version, because I
                          am still waiting for Ben to reply.

                      

                      

                        
 

                      

                      

                        
Regards,

                      

                      

                        
 

                      

                      

                        
Christer

                      

                      
 

                    

                  

                  
_______________________________________________

                  
sipcore mailing list

                  
sipcore@ietf.org

                  
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore

                

                
 

              

              


                _______________________________________________

                sipcore mailing list

                sipcore@ietf.org

                https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore

            

          

          
 

        

      

    

    

  


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From: Christer Holmberg 
To: Robert Sparks , Roman Shpount 
CC: "sipcore@ietf.org" 
Thread-Topic: [sipcore] Draft new version: SIP Push-12
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From: Christer Holmberg 
To: Robert Sparks , "sipcore@ietf.org" 
Thread-Topic: [sipcore] Draft new version: SIP Push-12
Thread-Index: AQHUM5ruoItSmZb0OkGB5AhCTy0zzqS/Q/MAgABK93A=
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Subject: Re: [sipcore] Draft new version: SIP Push-12
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Hi,

The pull request looks good.

Regarding the "future work" where the proxy requests a re-transmit of the S=
IP request, I would have no problem to make than an option already now.

I.e. something like "MUST reject the request and MAY (based on local policy=
) insert a Retry-After header field".

After all, the current text doesn't forbid Retry-After anyway, so we could =
as well spell it out :)

Regards,

Christer

From: Robert Sparks [mailto:rjsparks@nostrum.com]
Sent: 14 August 2018 18:49
To: Christer Holmberg ; sipcore@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [sipcore] Draft new version: SIP Push-12


Thanks for this Christer.

I think the draft needs to say even more about the issues related to a dela=
y in processing non-INVITE transactions.

I've created a pull-request with suggested text at .

RjS
On 8/14/18 1:49 AM, Christer Holmberg wrote:
Hi,

I have submitted a new version (-12) of SIP Push, based on the comments fro=
m Ben and Robert.

Some comments have not yet been addressed in the new version, because I am =
still waiting for Ben to reply.

Regards,

Christer




_______________________________________________

sipcore mailing list

sipcore@ietf.org

https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore


--_000_98d96fe5fbea4ddeb0f856b0011b30b8ericssoncom_
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Hi,


 =
;


The pull r=
equest looks good.


 =
;


Regarding =
the “future work” where the proxy requests a re-transmit of the=
 SIP request, I would have no problem to make than an option
 already now.


 =
;


I.e. somet=
hing like “MUST reject the request and MAY (based on local policy) in=
sert a Retry-After header field”.


 =
;


After all,=
 the current text doesn’t forbid Retry-After anyway, so we could as w=
ell spell it out :)


 =
;


Regards,


 =
;


Christer


 






From:=
 Robert Sparks [mailto:rjsparks@nostrum.co=
m]


Sent: 14 August 2018 18:49

To: Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com>; sipcor=
e@ietf.org

Subject: Re: [sipcore] Draft new version: SIP Push-12






 


Thanks for this Christer.


I think the draft needs to say even more about the issues related to a d=
elay in processing non-INVITE transactions.


I've created a pull-request with suggested text at 
<https://github.com/cdh4u/draft-sip-push/pull/19>.


RjS




On 8/14/18 1:49 AM, Christer Holmberg wrote:








Hi,






 






I have submitted a new version (-12) of SIP Push, ba=
sed on the comments from Ben and Robert.






 






Some comments have not yet been addressed in the new=
 version, because I am still waiting for Ben to reply.






 






Regards,






 






Christer













_______________________________________________


sipcore mailing list


sipcore@ietf.org

https://www.=
ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore




 






--_000_98d96fe5fbea4ddeb0f856b0011b30b8ericssoncom_--


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To: Christer Holmberg , "sipcore@ietf.org" 
References:   <98d96fe5fbea4ddeb0f856b0011b30b8@ericsson.com>
From: Robert Sparks 
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Well, if we went down that route, I think we should consider a new 
response code with an explicit semantic.

RFC3261's treatment of Retry-After in the places it uses it leave it to 
the UA to retry at its discretion, and the implication in a lot of the 
places it's used imply there's a human involved in choosing whether to 
retry (I point particularly to "Retry-After: 120 (I'm in a meeting)". 
There are other places (section 14.2) that imply automatic retries, but 
it's not explicit.

I'm uncertain how consistent existing UAs are at retrying a request on a 
bare 400 or 500 with Retry-After (this would be good to know because if 
we _do_ define a new response code, until those UAs are updated, they'll 
do what they do with the bare 4xx or 5xx depending on what code we select).

RjS


On 8/14/18 1:20 PM, Christer Holmberg wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> The pull request looks good.
>
> Regarding the future work where the proxy requests a re-transmit of 
> the SIP request, I would have no problem to make than an option 
> already now.
>
> I.e. something like MUST reject the request and MAY (based on local 
> policy) insert a Retry-After header field.
>
> After all, the current text doesnt forbid Retry-After anyway, so we 
> could as well spell it out :)
>
> Regards,
>
> Christer
>
> *From:*Robert Sparks [mailto:rjsparks@nostrum.com]
> *Sent:* 14 August 2018 18:49
> *To:* Christer Holmberg ; sipcore@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [sipcore] Draft new version: SIP Push-12
>
> Thanks for this Christer.
>
> I think the draft needs to say even more about the issues related to a 
> delay in processing non-INVITE transactions.
>
> I've created a pull-request with suggested text at 
>  
> .
>
> RjS
>
> On 8/14/18 1:49 AM, Christer Holmberg wrote:
>
>     Hi,
>
>     I have submitted a new version (-12) of SIP Push, based on the
>     comments from Ben and Robert.
>
>     Some comments have not yet been addressed in the new version,
>     because I am still waiting for Ben to reply.
>
>     Regards,
>
>     Christer
>
>
>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>
>     sipcore mailing list
>
>     sipcore@ietf.org 
>
>     https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore
>


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Well, if we went down that route, I think we should consider a
      new response code with an explicit semantic.

    

    
RFC3261's treatment of Retry-After in the places it uses it leave
      it to the UA to retry at its discretion, and the implication in a
      lot of the places it's used imply there's a human involved in
      choosing whether to retry (I point particularly to "Retry-After:
      120 (I'm in a meeting)". There are other places (section 14.2)
      that imply automatic retries, but it's not explicit.

    

    
I'm uncertain how consistent existing UAs are at retrying a
      request on a bare 400 or 500 with Retry-After (this would be good
      to know because if we _do_ define a new response code, until those
      UAs are updated, they'll do what they do with the bare 4xx or 5xx
      depending on what code we select).

    
RjS

    

    

    
On 8/14/18 1:20 PM, Christer Holmberg
      wrote:

    

    

      
      
      
      

        
Hi,

        

        
The
            pull request looks good.

        

        
Regarding
            the future work where the proxy requests a re-transmit of
            the SIP request, I would have no problem to make than an
            option already now.

        

        
I.e.
            something like MUST reject the request and MAY (based on
            local policy) insert a Retry-After header field.

        

        
After
            all, the current text doesnt forbid Retry-After anyway, so
            we could as well spell it out :)

        

        
Regards,

        

        
Christer

        

        

          

            
From: Robert Sparks
                [mailto:rjsparks@nostrum.com]
                

                Sent: 14 August 2018 18:49

                To: Christer Holmberg
                <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com>; sipcore@ietf.org

                Subject: Re: [sipcore] Draft new version: SIP
                Push-12

          

        

        

        
Thanks for this Christer.

        
I think the draft needs to say even more about the issues
          related to a delay in processing non-INVITE transactions.

        
I've created a pull-request with suggested text at 
            <https://github.com/cdh4u/draft-sip-push/pull/19>.

        
RjS

        

          
On 8/14/18 1:49 AM, Christer Holmberg
            wrote:

        

        

          

            
Hi,

          

          

            

          

          

            
I have submitted a new version (-12) of
              SIP Push, based on the comments from Ben and Robert.

          

          

            

          

          

            
Some comments have not yet been
              addressed in the new version, because I am still waiting
              for Ben to reply.

          

          

            

          

          

            
Regards,

          

          

            

          

          

            
Christer

          

          


            

            

            

          
_______________________________________________

          
sipcore mailing list

          
sipcore@ietf.org

          
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore

        

        

      

    

    

  


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From: Christer Holmberg 
To: Robert Sparks , "sipcore@ietf.org" 
Thread-Topic: [sipcore] Draft new version: SIP Push-12
Thread-Index: AQHUM5ruoItSmZb0OkGB5AhCTy0zzqS/Q/MAgABK93D//+qnAIAAJQhQ
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>Well, if we went down that route, I think we should consider a new respons=
e code with an explicit semantic.
>
>RFC3261's treatment of Retry-After in the places it uses it leave it to th=
e UA to retry at its discretion, and the implication in a lot of the places=
 it's used imply there's a human >involved in choosing whether to retry (I =
point particularly to "Retry-After: 120 (I'm in a meeting)". There are othe=
r places (section 14.2) that imply automatic retries, but it's >not explici=
t.
>I'm uncertain how consistent existing UAs are at retrying a request on a b=
are 400 or 500 with Retry-After (this would be good to know because if we _=
do_ define a new >response code, until those UAs are updated, they'll do wh=
at they do with the bare 4xx or 5xx depending on what code we select).

True, and there is no way we can impact those endpoints. But, again, timeou=
ts don't seem to be a problem (at least based on the information I have), s=
o if we think this require more studies it could be "future work".

Having said that, we could still define an explicit response code, e.g., 55=
7 (Push Notification Timeout), and use that instead of 404 (Not Found), if =
people think it would be useful.

Regards,

Christer



On 8/14/18 1:20 PM, Christer Holmberg wrote:
Hi,
=A0
The pull request looks good.
=A0
Regarding the "future work" where the proxy requests a re-transmit of the S=
IP request, I would have no problem to make than an option already now.
=A0
I.e. something like "MUST reject the request and MAY (based on local policy=
) insert a Retry-After header field".
=A0
After all, the current text doesn't forbid Retry-After anyway, so we could =
as well spell it out :)
=A0
Regards,
=A0
Christer
=A0
From: Robert Sparks [mailto:rjsparks@nostrum.com]=20
Sent: 14 August 2018 18:49
To: Christer Holmberg ; sipcore@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [sipcore] Draft new version: SIP Push-12
=A0
Thanks for this Christer.
I think the draft needs to say even more about the issues related to a dela=
y in processing non-INVITE transactions.
I've created a pull-request with suggested text at .
RjS
On 8/14/18 1:49 AM, Christer Holmberg wrote:
Hi,
=A0
I have submitted a new version (-12) of SIP Push, based on the comments fro=
m Ben and Robert.
=A0
Some comments have not yet been addressed in the new version, because I am =
still waiting for Ben to reply.
=A0
Regards,
=A0
Christer




_______________________________________________
sipcore mailing list
sipcore@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore
=A0


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From: Roman Shpount 
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2018 16:10:32 -0400
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On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 3:33 PM, Christer Holmberg <
christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:

> >Well, if we went down that route, I think we should consider a new
> response code with an explicit semantic.
> >
> >RFC3261's treatment of Retry-After in the places it uses it leave it to
> the UA to retry at its discretion, and the implication in a lot of the
> places it's used imply there's a human >involved in choosing whether to
> retry (I point particularly to "Retry-After: 120 (I'm in a meeting)". There
> are other places (section 14.2) that imply automatic retries, but it's >not
> explicit.
> >I'm uncertain how consistent existing UAs are at retrying a request on a
> bare 400 or 500 with Retry-After (this would be good to know because if we
> _do_ define a new >response code, until those UAs are updated, they'll do
> what they do with the bare 4xx or 5xx depending on what code we select).
>
> True, and there is no way we can impact those endpoints. But, again,
> timeouts don't seem to be a problem (at least based on the information I
> have), so if we think this require more studies it could be "future work".
>
> Having said that, we could still define an explicit response code, e.g.,
> 557 (Push Notification Timeout), and use that instead of 404 (Not Found),
> if people think it would be useful.
>
> Regards,
>

I agree that 5XX error code is more appropriate here then 404 Not Found.
Even if we do not define a new error code, we should use "504 Server
Time-out"

Regards,
_____________
Roman Shpount

--0000000000005ffb6005736acd38
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On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 3:33 PM, Ch=
rister Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:
>Well, if we went down that route, I think we sh=
ould consider a new response code with an explicit semantic.

>

>RFC3261's treatment of Retry-After in the places it uses it leave i=
t to the UA to retry at its discretion, and the implication in a lot of the=
 places it's used imply there's a human >involved in choosing wh=
ether to retry (I point particularly to "Retry-After: 120 (I'm in =
a meeting)". There are other places (section 14.2) that imply automati=
c retries, but it's >not explicit.

>I'm uncertain how consistent existing UAs are at retrying a request=
 on a bare 400 or 500 with Retry-After (this would be good to know because =
if we _do_ define a new >response code, until those UAs are updated, the=
y'll do what they do with the bare 4xx or 5xx depending on what code we=
 select).



True, and there is no way we can impact those endpoints. But, again,=
 timeouts don't seem to be a problem (at least based on the information=
 I have), so if we think this require more studies it could be "future=
 work".



Having said that, we could still define an explicit response code, e.g., 55=
7 (Push Notification Timeout), and use that instead of 404 (Not Found), if =
people think it would be useful.



Regards,

I agree that 5XX error code is=
 more appropriate here then 404 Not Found. Even if we do not define a new e=
rror code, we should use "504 Server Time-out"

Regards,



_____________
Roman Shpount



=C2=A0


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On 8/14/18 3:10 PM, Roman Shpount wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 3:33 PM, Christer Holmberg 
>  > wrote:
>
>     >Well, if we went down that route, I think we should consider a new response code with an explicit semantic.
>     >
>     >RFC3261's treatment of Retry-After in the places it uses it leave
>     it to the UA to retry at its discretion, and the implication in a
>     lot of the places it's used imply there's a human >involved in
>     choosing whether to retry (I point particularly to "Retry-After:
>     120 (I'm in a meeting)". There are other places (section 14.2)
>     that imply automatic retries, but it's >not explicit.
>     >I'm uncertain how consistent existing UAs are at retrying a
>     request on a bare 400 or 500 with Retry-After (this would be good
>     to know because if we _do_ define a new >response code, until
>     those UAs are updated, they'll do what they do with the bare 4xx
>     or 5xx depending on what code we select).
>
>     True, and there is no way we can impact those endpoints. But,
>     again, timeouts don't seem to be a problem (at least based on the
>     information I have), so if we think this require more studies it
>     could be "future work".
>
>     Having said that, we could still define an explicit response code,
>     e.g., 557 (Push Notification Timeout), and use that instead of 404
>     (Not Found), if people think it would be useful.
>
>     Regards,
>
>
> I agree that 5XX error code is more appropriate here then 404 Not 
> Found. Even if we do not define a new error code, we should use "504 
> Server Time-out"
Eh - I'm less convinced of a 5xx. A 404 is not good in any case - that 
will terminate dialogs (think NOTIFY).

At a high level, this really is a request failure (4xx) not a server 
failure (5xx). If we were to reuse an existing code and hope for the 
best with respect to implementations actually retrying, I think 480 
Temporarily Unavailable is the best in the set.

RjS
>
> Regards,
> _____________
> Roman Shpount
>


--------------00DF1223639BE5458B3F948E
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On 8/14/18 3:10 PM, Roman Shpount
      wrote:

    

    

      
      

        

          

            
On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at
              3:33 PM, Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com>
              wrote:

            

          

          

            
>Well, if we went down that route, I think
                we should consider a new response code with an explicit
                semantic.

                >

                >RFC3261's treatment of Retry-After in the places it
                uses it leave it to the UA to retry at its discretion,
                and the implication in a lot of the places it's used
                imply there's a human >involved in choosing whether
                to retry (I point particularly to "Retry-After: 120 (I'm
                in a meeting)". There are other places (section 14.2)
                that imply automatic retries, but it's >not explicit.

                >I'm uncertain how consistent existing UAs are at
                retrying a request on a bare 400 or 500 with Retry-After
                (this would be good to know because if we _do_ define a
                new >response code, until those UAs are updated,
                they'll do what they do with the bare 4xx or 5xx
                depending on what code we select).

                

              True, and there is no way we can impact those
              endpoints. But, again, timeouts don't seem to be a problem
              (at least based on the information I have), so if we think
              this require more studies it could be "future work".

              

              Having said that, we could still define an explicit
              response code, e.g., 557 (Push Notification Timeout), and
              use that instead of 404 (Not Found), if people think it
              would be useful.

              

              Regards,

            

            


            

            
I agree that 5XX error code is more appropriate here
              then 404 Not Found. Even if we do not define a new error
              code, we should use "504 Server Time-out"

          

        

      

    

    Eh - I'm less convinced of a 5xx. A 404 is not good in any case -
    that will terminate dialogs (think NOTIFY).

    

    At a high level, this really is a request failure (4xx) not a server
    failure (5xx). If we were to reuse an existing code and hope for the
    best with respect to implementations actually retrying, I think 480
    Temporarily Unavailable is the best in the set.

    

    RjS

    

      

        

          

            


            

            
Regards,

            

              

                
_____________

                  Roman Shpount

              

              

               

          

        

      

    

    

  


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From: Christer Holmberg 
To: Robert Sparks , Roman Shpount 
CC: "sipcore@ietf.org" 
Thread-Topic: [sipcore] Draft new version: SIP Push-12
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Archived-At: 
Subject: Re: [sipcore] Draft new version: SIP Push-12
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Hi,

>>>> Well, if we went down that route, I think we should consider a new
>>>>response code with an explicit semantic.
>>>>
>>>> RFC3261's treatment of Retry-After in the places it uses it leave it
>>>>to the UA to retry at its discretion, and the implication in a lot of
>>>>the places it's used imply there's a human
>>>> involved in choosing whether to retry (I point particularly to
>>>>"Retry-After: 120 (I'm in a meeting)". There are other places (section
>>>>14.2) that imply automatic retries, but it=B9s
>>>> not explicit.
>>>>
>>>> I'm uncertain how consistent existing UAs are at retrying a request
>>>>on a bare 400 or 500 with Retry-After (this would be good to know
>>>>because if we _do_ define a new
>>>> response code, until those UAs are updated, they'll do what they do
>>>>with the bare 4xx or 5xx depending on what code we select).
>>>
>>> True, and there is no way we can impact those endpoints. But, again,
>>>timeouts don't seem to be a problem (at least based on the information
>>>I have), so if we think this require more studies it could be "future
>>>work".
>>>
>>> Having said that, we could still define an explicit response code,
>>>e.g., 557 (Push Notification Timeout), and use that instead of 404 (Not
>>>Found), if people think it would be useful.
>>
>> I agree that 5XX error code is more appropriate here then 404 Not
>>Found. Even if we do not define a new error code, we should use "504
>>Server Time-out"
>
> Eh - I'm less convinced of a 5xx. A 404 is not good in any case - that
>will terminate dialogs (think NOTIFY).
>
> At a high level, this really is a request failure (4xx) not a server
>failure (5xx). If we were to reuse an existing code and hope for the best
>with respect to implementations actually
> retrying, I think 480 Temporarily Unavailable is the best in the set.

I am ok with 480.

So, do we keep the pull request as it is, and only change 404 to 480 for
the case when the proxy does not receive a REGISTER and rejects the
request?

Redgards,

Christer


=20








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Thread-Topic: [sipcore] Draft new version: SIP Push-12
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Session Initiation Protocol Core WG of the IETF.

        Title           : Push Notification with the Session Initiation Protocol (SIP)
        Authors         : Christer Holmberg
                          Michael Arnold
	Filename        : draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-13.txt
	Pages           : 27
	Date            : 2018-08-17

Abstract:
   This document describes how a Push Notification Service (PNS) can be
   used to awake suspended Session Initiation Protocol (SIP) User Agents
   (UAs), using push notifications, for the UA to be able to send
   binding refresh REGISTER requests and to receive receive incoming SIP
   requests.  The document defines new SIP URI parameters and new
   feature-capability indicators that can be used in SIP messages to
   indicate support of the mechanism defined in this document, to
   exchange PNS information between the SIP User Agent (UA) and the SIP
   entity that will request push notifications towards the UA, and to
   trigger such push notification requests.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-13
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-13

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-13


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


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From: Christer Holmberg 
To: "sipcore@ietf.org" 
Thread-Topic: Draft new version: SIP Push -13
Thread-Index: AQHUNf0Z7hPCbw4MZ0aXwCV0SULSUg==
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2018 07:37:06 +0000
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Subject: [sipcore] Draft new version: SIP Push -13
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--_000_D79C57AC34AE4christerholmbergericssoncom_
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Hi,

I have merged Robert=92s pull request, changed 404 to 480 for the case when=
 a REGISTER request is not received in time by the proxy, and submitted a n=
ew version (-13) of SIP Push.

Regards,

Christer

--_000_D79C57AC34AE4christerholmbergericssoncom_
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Hi,







I have merged Robert=92s pull request, changed 404 to 480 for the case=
 when a REGISTER request is not received in time by the proxy, and submitte=
d a new version (-13) of SIP Push.







Regards,







Christer




--_000_D79C57AC34AE4christerholmbergericssoncom_--


From nobody Mon Aug 20 10:19:15 2018
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Subject: [sipcore] I-D Action: draft-ietf-sipcore-reason-q850-loc-04.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Session Initiation Protocol Core WG of the IETF.

        Title           : ISUP Cause Location Parameter for the SIP Reason Header Field
        Author          : Roland Jesske
	Filename        : draft-ietf-sipcore-reason-q850-loc-04.txt
	Pages           : 6
	Date            : 2018-08-20

Abstract:
   The SIP Reason header field is defined for carrying ISDN User Part
   (ISUP) cause values as well as SIP response codes.  Some services in
   SIP networks may need to know the ISUP location where the call was
   released in the PSTN network to correctly interpret the reason of
   release.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sipcore-reason-q850-loc/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sipcore-reason-q850-loc-04
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sipcore-reason-q850-loc-04

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-sipcore-reason-q850-loc-04


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

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From nobody Mon Aug 20 15:08:41 2018
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References:   
From: "A. Jean Mahoney" 
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Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2018 17:08:36 -0500
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Subject: Re: [sipcore] draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-authn-02 - consider splitting
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Does anyone have any thoughts on this proposal?

Thanks!

Jean


On 8/2/18 10:12 PM, A. Jean Mahoney wrote:
> 
> 
> On 8/2/18 1:40 PM, Rifaat Shekh-Yusef wrote:
>> Thanks Yehoshua,
>>
>> I tend to agree with you, and I would be ok with splitting the 
>> document into two.
>> It is up to the chairs and WG to make a decision on this.
>>
>> *
>> *
>> *Chairs,*
>>
>> Any thoughts about this?
> 
> I'm not opposed to splitting the draft in two, but I would like to hear 
> from the WG on it.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Jean
> 
> 
> 
>> Regards,
>>   Rifaat
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 9:18 AM Yehoshua Gev > > wrote:
>>
>>     Hi,
>>
>>     After some thoughts about how the various sections of draft are
>>     intended to be used, I think you should consider splitting it to two
>>     drafts.
>>
>>     The draft currently describes two separate mechanisms:
>>     1. Section 2 is intended for a UA as a way to perform login by
>>     entering some sort of credentials.
>>         After entering the credential, the SIP Proxy maintains a state
>>     for "remaining authenticated" with the Authorization Server.
>>         Possibly, the UA uses a novel (not defined by the OAuth RFCs)
>>     shared-key mechanism for "remaining authenticated" with the SIP 
>> Proxy.
>>         Part of the mechanism described in this section is similar to
>>     steps A & B of section 4 of RFC 6749 (OAuth).
>>
>>     2. Section 3 is intended for a UA which has means of obtaining OAuth
>>     access token (e.g., web application).
>>         This section describes a how to convey this access token over
>>     SIP messages.
>>         It is almost completely equivalent to RFC 6750 (OAuth Bearer
>>     token) which does the same for HTTP.
>>
>>     I think that each of those mechanisms deserves a separate draft,
>>     because:
>>     a. A UA will most probably implement only one of those mechanisms
>>     and not both.
>>         (To say a UA/Proxy conforms to the draft - must both mechanisms
>>     be implemented?)
>>     b. The security considerations are different between them.
>>     c. They correspond to different OAuth RFCs.
>>     d. IMHO, the second mechanism is closer to be prepared to 
>> publication.
>>
>>
>>     Regards,
>>     Yehoshua
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> sipcore mailing list
>> sipcore@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore
>>
> 
> _______________________________________________
> sipcore mailing list
> sipcore@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore


From nobody Tue Aug 21 14:53:32 2018
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Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2018 16:52:55 -0500
In-Reply-To: 
Cc: "draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push.all@ietf.org" ,  Robert Sparks , "sipcore@ietf.org" , "sipcore-chairs@ietf.org" 
To: Christer Holmberg 
References: 
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Subject: Re: [sipcore] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-11 - Major issues
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Hi, sorry for the late response. It=E2=80=99s been a busy couple of =
weeks. I=E2=80=99ve read version 13 and the various discussion threads, =
and am commenting with those in mind.

Thanks!

Ben.

> On Aug 8, 2018, at 1:53 AM, Christer Holmberg =
 wrote:
>=20
> Hi Ben,
>=20
> Thanks for you review! In order to avoid super long e-mails, in this =
reply I will address your Major issues.
>=20
> Also, Robert Sparks raised more or less the same issues off-line. I =
was going to bring them to the list, but I'll deal with them in this =
thread.
>=20
>> In summary, I don=E2=80=99t think this draft is ready for IETF last =
call. There are significant issues that I think need further attention
>> from the working group before this can progress. I am returning the =
draft to the working group, and will change the state to =E2=80=9CAD is =
Watching=E2=80=9D.
>=20
> Major Issues:
>=20
> ---
>=20
>> 1. The mechanism makes SIP transactions pend for an indeterminate =
period of time while the push notification is processed, the
>> recipient wakes up and sends a REGISTER request, and the registrar =
processes that request. This is a problem for non-INVITE transactions,
>> and is not optimal for any transaction. (The issues with doing this =
to a non-INVITE transaction are best described in RFC 4321.)
>>=20
>> At least for the non-INVITE case, has the working group considered a =
model where the transaction completes and the UAC resends it at
>> some point in the future? (For example, a 4XX response with =
retry-after)
>=20
> It is true that, in the case of non-INVITEs, the proxy cannot wait =
that long for the REGISTER.
>=20
> When I discussed this with Robert, I suggested the following new =
paragraph to be added to section 5.3.2:
>=20
> "As describe above, there are cases where the proxy will reject the =
SIP request and send an error response towards the UAC. While waiting =
for the notification request to succeed, or the REGISTER request to =
arrive from the SIP UA, the proxy needs to take into consideration that =
the transaction associated with the SIP request will eventually time out =
at the sender (UAC), and the sender will consider the transaction a =
failure. If the proxy forwards the SIP request towards the SIP UA, the =
SIP UA accepts the request and the transaction times out at the sender =
before it receives the successful response, this will cause state =
misalignment between the endpoints (the sender will consider the =
transaction a failure, while the receiver will consider the transaction =
a success). The SIP proxy needs to take this into account when deciding =
for how long to wait before it considers the transaction associated with =
the SIP request a failure, to make sure that the error response reaches =
the sender before the transaction times out.=E2=80=9D

I am okay with the the way this is handled in version 13, modulo the =
fact that I agree with Robert that 480 is a better choice than 404. I =
wish we could just throw =E2=80=9Cretry-after=E2=80=9D in and expect =
clients to do the right thing, but we can=E2=80=99t.

>=20
> I have talked to my product people, and the good part is that the push =
mechanisms is fast enough to not cause any transaction timeout issues =
(it has been tested with SIP MESSAGE requests).

I can only assume that they tested for specific deployments and specific =
PNSs. I image the PNS latency can vary a lot, depending on the PNS =
itself, the transient load on the PNS, SIP network conditions, etc. So =
I=E2=80=99m hesitant to treat such testing as proof that this won=E2=80=99=
t be a problem in some cases.


>=20
> ---
>=20
>> 2. The architectural assumptions are unclear. In particular, the role =
of the proxy in the SIP network is unclear. In some parts
>> of the draft, it appears the proxy must be co-located with the =
registrar, but others talk about a proxy that is on the path between
>> the UA and the registrar. Along the same lines, the draft needs to =
clarify assumptions  about proxy=E2=80=99s role for inbound SIP =
requests.
>> (For example, the R-URI in an inbound request may or may not match =
the registered contact depending on whether the request has
>> been retargeted=E2=80=94the R-URI could be an AoR rather than a =
registered contact.)
>=20
> The proxy needs to be located between the UA and the proxy that puts =
the registered contact into the R-URI of the SIP request (the UA's "home =
proxy").
>=20
> When talking to Robert, I realized that the text in some places =
wrongly calls that home proxy "registrar". A registrar only handles =
REGISTER request. It does not replace the R-URI, forward non-REGISTER =
requests etc.
>=20

Version 13 is improved. I think it could use some elaboration about why =
the proxy needs to be downstream of the =E2=80=9Chome proxy=E2=80=9D for =
incoming SIP requests. The only reason I am aware of is that the inbound =
SIP request needs to either have a device contact rather than an AOR in =
the R-URI, or the proxy needs to have other knowledge of the contact =
bindings (perhaps it has an out-of-band interface to the location =
services).


> When it comes to inbound SIP requests (non-REGISTER) there are no push =
specific procedures for the proxy.

I think we are using =E2=80=9Cinbound=E2=80=9D in opposite ways :-) I =
meant requests _toward_ the UA that is using the push service.


>=20
> ---
>=20
>> 3. The mechanism seems to assume a single contact binding exists at =
any one time, and that any given REGISTER request
>> relates to that binding. How is this expected to work if multiple =
bindings exist at the same time, perhaps with different
>> expiration times? What if the user has multiple clients that are =
creating bindings, some supporting this mechanism and others not =
supporting it?
>=20
> Robert suggested the following modified paragraph in section 5.3.2 to =
cover that:
>=20
>   "In case of a 2xx response to the REGISTER request, once the proxy =
has forwarded
>   the REGISTER response towards the UA, if one of the contacts in the =
REGISTER
>   response matches the Request-URI of the SIP request to be forwarded, =
and if that
>   contact has not expired, the proxy can forward the SIP request =
towards the UA, using
>   normal SIP procedures. If none of the contacts of the most recent =
REGISTER
>   2xx response and Request-URI do not match, the proxy MUST reject the
>   SIP request with a 404 (Not Found) response.=E2=80=9D

That=E2=80=99s better, but I don=E2=80=99t think it=E2=80=99s enough. =
The draft needs to explicitly discuss the implications of multiple =
clients, and multiple contacts per client.

For example, what happens if I have multiple clients, all using the push =
service? What if not all are using the push service? What if the proxy =
is in path for all of them? What if it is only in the path for some of =
them? Keep in mind that a REGISTER _response_ includes all current =
bindings, including bindings that may not belong to the UA that sent the =
REGISTER in response to the push notification.

What happens if a single client has multiple bindings (perhaps one for =
IPv4 and one for IPv6)? Do both refresh at the same time?



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To: Christer Holmberg 
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Hi, apologies for the delay in responding. My last couple of weeks have =
been crazy busy.  Please see inline; I=E2=80=99ve removed sections that =
do not seem to need further discussion. I=E2=80=99ve read the list =
discussion and version 13 of the draft, and am responding from that =
context (but forgive me if I missed a change that addresses any of =
them.)


> On Aug 8, 2018, at 5:27 AM, Christer Holmberg =
 wrote:
>=20
> Hi Ben,
>=20
> In this reply I address your other issues.
>=20
> Other Substantive Comments:
>=20
> ---
>=20
>> =C2=A71
>> -  Does this draft claim compatibility with APNS and FCM? Can you =
offer citations for those?
>=20
> I am not exactly sure what you mean. Sections 8 and 9 describe how the =
mechanism can be used with APNS and FCM.

Right. I guess I was reviewing linearly :-)

>=20
>> - " When the proxy receives (or, if the proxy is the SIP =
registrar[RFC3261], initiates) a SIP request for a new dialog=E2=80=9D
>> I don=E2=80=99t understand the intent here; registrars do not =
normally initiate SIP requests for new dialogs.
>=20
> This is related to your major issue #2. It is the "home proxy of the =
UA", not the registrar. And, it does not initiate requests, it forwards =
them.

Okay

>=20
>> =E2=80=9CDifferent PNSs exist today.  Some are based on the =
standardized mechanism defined in [ RFC8030 ], while others are
>> proprietary (e.g., the Apple Push Notification service).=E2=80=9D
>>=20
>> Is there an assumption that they are all similar enough that this =
mechanism can work with all of them? If so, please say that explicitly.
>=20
> I could modify the following sentence:
>=20
> "Figure 1 shows the generic push notification architecture supported =
by the mechanism in this document. The mechanism in this document can be =
used with any push notification mechanism that is based on that =
architecture, and where the SIP UA is able to provide the information =
needed for the SIP proxy to request push notifications towards the =
UA.=E2=80=9D
>=20

WFM


[...]


>> - Please elaborate on the practical effect of supporting VAPID.
>=20
> I am not sure how much information this document should contain. There =
is already a reference, and the Security Considerations contains the =
following paragraph:
>=20
>   "[RFC8292] defines a mechanism which allows a proxy to create a
>   identity itself to a PNS, by signing a JWT sent to the PNS using a
>   key pair.  The public key serves as an identifier of the proxy, and
>   can be used by devices to restrict push notifications to the proxy
>   associated with the key."
>=20
> (Later you have a comment on this paragraph, but it is editorial)

I was asking about the impact on the SIP behavior. Do we expect the SIP =
client to do something with the capability indicator value? Maybe record =
the value pass it to the =E2=80=9Cpush" client? Only send a new register =
when the right VAPID related things happens in the push protocol?

>=20
>> - " If the REGISTER response does not contain a a =E2=80=99sip.pnsreg=E2=
=80=99 feature- capability indicator, the UA SHOULD only send a
>> re-registration REGISTER request when it receives a push notification =
(even if the UA is able to use a non-push mechanism for
>> sending re-registration REGISTER requests).=E2=80=9D
>>=20
>> Why? That=E2=80=99s normal SIP behavior for UAs that do not support =
this mechanism, so the registrar must be able to handle it.
>> (If there=E2=80=99s a good reason, please explain it in the draft.)
>=20
> The registrar will for sure be able to handle it, but if the proxy is =
anyway going to trigger REGISTER requests using push notifications, I =
see no reason for the UA to trigger REGISTER requests "on its own=E2=80=9D=
.

So the concern is additional unnecessary REGISTER requests?

What happens if a binding is about to expire, but the client hasn=E2=80=99=
t gotten a push notification? What if the clients network configuration =
changes in a way that forces adding or removing contacts; should it wait =
for a push notification to send a new REGISTER request? Can it terminate =
a binding proactively, or does it need to wait for that, too?

>=20
> ---
>=20
>> - =E2=80=9C NOTE: If the SIP UA application wants to use push =
notifications for
>>  other purposes than to trigger re-registration requests, it needs to
>>  be able to distinguish between the different purposes when receiving
>>  push notifications.  Mechanisms for doing that are outside the scope
>>  of this specification."
>>=20
>> I can see keeping how you distinguish between SIP related =
notifications and other kinds of notifications. But what if the UA uses
>> more than one SIP services that supports push notifications?
>=20
> Each UA application will have a separate push notification =
subscription, use separate registrations etc.
>=20
> (Now, if a single UA handles multiple SIP services I see no reason =
from a non-push scenario: when the UA receives a request it needs to =
figure out to which service the request is "dispatched=E2=80=9D.)

I was thinking in terms of a single UA application. Let=E2=80=99s say it =
has successfully registered with service FOO and service BAR. They both =
support push. If it gets a push notification, how does it know which =
binding to refresh? Should it refresh both?


> ---
>=20
>> =C2=A75.2: =E2=80=9C It is RECOMMENDED that the proxy requests the =
push notification at least 120 seconds before the registration
>> expires.=E2=80=9D - We usually recommend refreshing bindings at when =
half of the expiration time has passed. Is there a reason
>> to do this differently? If so, why 120 seconds in particular; has =
there been analysis of push notification latency?
>=20
> I believe 120 seconds was suggested by Dale. We haven't done any =
further analysis within the WG.
>=20
> Regarding sending when half of the expiration time as passed, in =
deployments the registration expiration timers are normally pretty long, =
so I am not sure there is a need to send at "half time=E2=80=9D.


Okay


>> =C2=A75.3.1:
>> -  =E2=80=9C If the proxy considers the requested registration =
expiration interval
>>  [RFC3261] to be too short, the proxy MUST either send a 423 =
(Interval
>>  Too Brief) response to the REGISTER request, or skip the rest of the
>>  procedures in this section and process the REGISTER request using
>>  normal SIP procedures. "
>>=20
>> That _is_ normal SIP procedure. What do you mean to be different?
>=20
> Nothing :)
>=20
> I can remove the text, or simply re-write it as an informative "As =
defined in RFC 3261, if the proxy..." statement.

Okay

>=20
>> - " if the proxy received a =E2=80=99sip.pnsreg=E2=80=99 media =
feature tag in theREGISTER request, the proxy SHOULD include a =
=E2=80=99sip.pnsreg=E2=80=99
>> feature-capability indicator with an indicator value bigger than 120 =
inthe response, unless the proxy always want to request
>> push notifications to trigger the UA to send a REGISTER request.=E2=80=9D=

>>=20
>> It=E2=80=99s not clear to me why the proxy should be able to override =
the UAs choice.
>=20
> Again, I believe this is based on Dale's comment that we should make =
sure that REGISTER requests (no matter what triggers them) are sent at =
least 120 seconds before expiration.

Nevermind, I misread the text :-)

[...]

>> - =E2=80=9C If the contact of the most recent REGISTER
>>  2xx response and Request-URI do not match, the proxy MUST reject the
>>  SIP request with a 404 (Not Found) response.  This can happen if the
>>  UA sends a re-registration REGISTER request with a new contact at =
the
>>  same time the registrar forwards a SIP request towards a UA using =
the
>>  previously registered contact in the Request-URI.=E2=80=9D
>>=20
>> Why doesn=E2=80=99t the proxy forward using normal SIP procedures? =
It=E2=80=99s entirely possible that an UAS address changes during an =
inbound transaction
>> in normal SIP. Why is that different with push notifications? (this =
section seems to replace normal SIP request routing. That shouldn=E2=80=99=
t happen
>> without a really good reason. If normal SIP procedures are =
inadequate, please explain why.
>=20
> In order for the proxy to forward the SIP request, it needs to be able =
to match the R-URI of the request with the contact in the REGISTER =
request/response.
>=20
> Now, the proxy could of course not wait for the REGISTER response, and =
simply forward the request when it receives a REGISTER request with a =
contact that matches the R-URI. But, if the registrar for whatever =
reason no longer accepts the registered contact, the proxy have =
forwarded the request before the REGISTER response informs it about the =
not-accepted contact.
>=20
> But, as you say, that could happen with any proxy, so we could say =
that the proxy forwards the request as soon as it receives a REGISTER =
request with a matching contact. That would also be better from the =
non-invite-transaction-timeout perspective, as the proxy does not need =
to wait for the REGISTER response before it forwards the request.

I see there=E2=80=99s been some discussion of this, but for the record, =
my question was not about waiting for the response, it was about =
requiring the R-URI to match the contact from that particular REGISTER.

For normal SIP, there=E2=80=99s always the chance a client may change =
it=E2=80=99s contact between the time the home proxy retargets the =
request and it arrives (or fails to arrive) at the client. Is that =
problem worse with push? (Maybe it is, if we assume that push clients do =
not proactively send new REGISTER requests when their contacts change)

>=20
> ---
>=20
>> =C2=A76.2: Why does the UAC need to know the failure was due to push =
notification? What would it do differently than for other kinds of
>> failures? (This seems like a privacy leak; does the recipient want =
the sender to know he or she is on a mobile
>> device?)
>=20
> I am not sure whether the information is very useful for the UAC, but =
the "home proxy" may perhaps trigger different actions depending on what =
response it receives.
>=20
> Push can also be used on non-mobile devices, e.g., on tablets where =
one wants to save battery.

Regardless, it tells the sender something about the client=E2=80=99s =
device that it did not already know. I think we need better =
justification than just saying the home proxy might need it; are there =
expected scenarios where it _will_ need it?


>=20
> ---
>=20
>> =C2=A711: =E2=80=9C If the push notification related information =
carried in SIP could be
>>  used by a malicious middleman to trigger push notifications towards =
a
>>  device, operators MUST ensure that the SIP signalling is properly
>>  secured from malicious middlemen, e.g., using encryption.=E2=80=9D
>>=20
>> This could use some elaboration. I think the sense of this is =
backwards. That is, the signaling MUST be secured unless
>> there are factors that make it impossible for an active attacker to =
use the informaiton.
>=20
> Isn't that what the text says? :)
>=20

It changes the burden of proof. The original text suggests that they =
only need to secure the signaling if they think they the information =
could be used maliciously. My suggestion is to say they need to secure =
the signaling unless they are sure it cannot be used maliciously. These =
are not the same thing.


> ---
>=20
>> =C2=A712.5: The template contains a =E2=80=9Cdocument=E2=80=9D field, =
but the registration policy is =E2=80=9Cexpert review=E2=80=9D. Should =
this be =E2=80=9Cspecification required=E2=80=9D?
>=20
> "Document" (or "Reference") is used also for "expert review", isn't =
it?

=E2=80=9CExpert Review=E2=80=9D does not necessarily require a document. =
=E2=80=9CSpecification required=E2=80=9D does.

>=20
> =3D=3D=3D
>=20
> Editorial Comments:
>=20
>> - General:
>> =E2=80=94 The draft has some readability issues. In particular, it =
pervasively uses long, convoluted sentences, lots of imbedded =
parenthetical
>> phrases, improper comma placement, etc.
>> =E2=80=94 The draft pervasively mixes registration procedures with =
the handling of inbound SIP requests. Please consider separating those =
into
>> different sections. I realize there are interdependencies, but it=E2=80=
=99s hard to follow as is.
>=20
> I will look into it, but when it comes to comma placements etc it =
would be very useful with input from an English speaker on how to fix =
it.
>=20
>> - Abstract: s/awake/wake ; (or awaken)  (=E2=80=9Cawake=E2=80=9D is =
not a verb. This repeats elsewhere in the draft. .)
>=20
> Someone told me to use "awake". But, I can change it.

Maybe they meant =E2=80=9Cawaken=E2=80=9D?

[...]

>=20
>> =C2=A75.3.1: =E2=80=9C If the proxy sends a SIP 555 (Push =
Notification Service Not Supported) response=E2=80=9D
>> It would be helpful to describe 555 before this.
>=20
> Are you suggesting to move section 6 (Grammar) up?

Not necessarily; just a brief mention that it=E2=80=99s defined in this =
document. Or just a forward reference.

[...]


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Subject: [sipcore] I-D Action: draft-ietf-sipcore-rejected-00.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Session Initiation Protocol Core WG of the IETF.

        Title           : A Session Initiation Protocol (SIP) Response Code for Rejected Calls
        Author          : Eric W. Burger
	Filename        : draft-ietf-sipcore-rejected-00.txt
	Pages           : 15
	Date            : 2018-08-21

Abstract:
   This document defines the 608 (Rejected) SIP response code.  This
   response code enables calling parties to learn their call was
   rejected by an intermediary and will not be answered.  As a 6xx code,
   the caller will be aware that future attempts to contact the same UAS
   will be likely to fail.  The present use case driving the need for
   the 608 response code is when the intermediary is an analytics
   engine.  In this case, the rejection is by a machine or other
   process.  This contrasts with the 607 (Unwanted) SIP response code,
   which a human at the target UAS indicated the call was not wanted.
   In some jurisdictions this distinction is important and may have
   additional requirements beyond the 607 response code.  Specifically,
   this document defines the use of the Call-Info header in 608
   responses to enable rejected callers to contact entities that blocked
   their calls in error.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sipcore-rejected/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sipcore-rejected-00
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sipcore-rejected-00


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


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From: Eric Burger 
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Subject: Re: [sipcore] I-D Action: draft-ietf-sipcore-rejected-00.txt
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Of interest to the STIR community, but please keep the discussion on the =
SIPCORE list.

Updated the Security Considerations section to reflect Tolga=E2=80=99s =
better articulation of the smurf attack and the vCard integrity / =
traceability attack. We don=E2=80=99t have a protocol method to address =
the vCard issue, but I will talk with the card people as there is a =
draft over there that is 30% of the solution.

Comments welcome.

> On Aug 21, 2018, at 6:34 PM, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote:
>=20
>=20
> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts =
directories.
> This draft is a work item of the Session Initiation Protocol Core WG =
of the IETF.
>=20
>        Title           : A Session Initiation Protocol (SIP) Response =
Code for Rejected Calls
>        Author          : Eric W. Burger
> 	Filename        : draft-ietf-sipcore-rejected-00.txt
> 	Pages           : 15
> 	Date            : 2018-08-21
>=20
> Abstract:
>   This document defines the 608 (Rejected) SIP response code.  This
>   response code enables calling parties to learn their call was
>   rejected by an intermediary and will not be answered.  As a 6xx =
code,
>   the caller will be aware that future attempts to contact the same =
UAS
>   will be likely to fail.  The present use case driving the need for
>   the 608 response code is when the intermediary is an analytics
>   engine.  In this case, the rejection is by a machine or other
>   process.  This contrasts with the 607 (Unwanted) SIP response code,
>   which a human at the target UAS indicated the call was not wanted.
>   In some jurisdictions this distinction is important and may have
>   additional requirements beyond the 607 response code.  Specifically,
>   this document defines the use of the Call-Info header in 608
>   responses to enable rejected callers to contact entities that =
blocked
>   their calls in error.
>=20
>=20
> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sipcore-rejected/
>=20
> There are also htmlized versions available at:
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sipcore-rejected-00
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sipcore-rejected-00
>=20
>=20
> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of =
submission
> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
>=20
> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> sipcore mailing list
> sipcore@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore


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From nobody Tue Aug 21 23:46:38 2018
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From: Christer Holmberg 
To: Ben Campbell 
CC: "draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push.all@ietf.org" , Robert Sparks , "sipcore@ietf.org" , "sipcore-chairs@ietf.org" 
Thread-Topic: [sipcore] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-11 - Major issues
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Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2018 06:46:31 +0000
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Subject: Re: [sipcore] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-11 - Major issues
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Hi Ben,

>> On Aug 8, 2018, at 1:53 AM, Christer Holmberg
>> wrote:
>>=20
>> Hi Ben,
>>=20
>> Thanks for you review! In order to avoid super long e-mails, in this
>>reply I will address your Major issues.
>>=20
>> Also, Robert Sparks raised more or less the same issues off-line. I was
>>going to bring them to the list, but I'll deal with them in this thread.
>>=20
>>> In summary, I don=B9t think this draft is ready for IETF last call.
>>>There are significant issues that I think need further attention
>>> from the working group before this can progress. I am returning the
>>>draft to the working group, and will change the state to =B3AD is
>>>Watching=B2.
>>=20
>> Major Issues:
>>=20
>> ---
>>=20
>>> 1. The mechanism makes SIP transactions pend for an indeterminate
>>>period of time while the push notification is processed, the
>>> recipient wakes up and sends a REGISTER request, and the registrar
>>>processes that request. This is a problem for non-INVITE transactions,
>>> and is not optimal for any transaction. (The issues with doing this to
>>>a non-INVITE transaction are best described in RFC 4321.)
>>>=20
>>> At least for the non-INVITE case, has the working group considered a
>>>model where the transaction completes and the UAC resends it at
>>> some point in the future? (For example, a 4XX response with
>>>retry-after)
>>=20
>> It is true that, in the case of non-INVITEs, the proxy cannot wait that
>>long for the REGISTER.
>>=20
>> When I discussed this with Robert, I suggested the following new
>>paragraph to be added to section 5.3.2:
>>=20
>> "As describe above, there are cases where the proxy will reject the SIP
>>request and send an error response towards the UAC. While waiting for
>>the notification request to succeed, or the REGISTER request to arrive
>>from the SIP UA, the proxy needs to take into consideration that the
>>transaction associated with the SIP request will eventually time out at
>>the sender (UAC), and the sender will consider the transaction a
>>failure. If the proxy forwards the SIP request towards the SIP UA, the
>>SIP UA accepts the request and the transaction times out at the sender
>>before it receives the successful response, this will cause state
>>misalignment between the endpoints (the sender will consider the
>>transaction a failure, while the receiver will consider the transaction
>>a success). The SIP proxy needs to take this into account when deciding
>>for how long to wait before it considers the transaction associated with
>>the SIP request a failure, to make sure that the error response reaches
>>the sender before the transaction times out.=B2
>
>I am okay with the the way this is handled in version 13, modulo the fact
>that I agree with Robert that 480 is a better choice than 404. I wish we
>could just throw =B3retry-after=B2 in and expect clients to do the right
>thing, but we can=B9t.
>
>>=20
>> I have talked to my product people, and the good part is that the push
>>mechanisms is fast enough to not cause any transaction timeout issues
>>(it has been tested with SIP MESSAGE requests).
>
>I can only assume that they tested for specific deployments and specific
>PNSs. I image the PNS latency can vary a lot, depending on the PNS
>itself, the transient load on the PNS, SIP network conditions, etc. So
>I=B9m hesitant to treat such testing as proof that this won=B9t be a probl=
em
>in some cases.

It was not meant as a =B3proof=B2 that things will always work - of course
things can go wrong. But, since the issue was raised, I provided input
based on the testing/deployment information I have :)

---

>>=20
>>> 2. The architectural assumptions are unclear. In particular, the role
>>>of the proxy in the SIP network is unclear. In some parts
>>> of the draft, it appears the proxy must be co-located with the
>>>registrar, but others talk about a proxy that is on the path between
>>> the UA and the registrar. Along the same lines, the draft needs to
>>>clarify assumptions  about proxy=B9s role for inbound SIP requests.
>>> (For example, the R-URI in an inbound request may or may not match the
>>>registered contact depending on whether the request has
>>> been retargeted=8Bthe R-URI could be an AoR rather than a registered
>>>contact.)
>>=20
>> The proxy needs to be located between the UA and the proxy that puts
>>the registered contact into the R-URI of the SIP request (the UA's "home
>>proxy").
>>=20
>> When talking to Robert, I realized that the text in some places wrongly
>>calls that home proxy "registrar". A registrar only handles REGISTER
>>request. It does not replace the R-URI, forward non-REGISTER requests
>>etc.
>>=20
>
>Version 13 is improved. I think it could use some elaboration about why
>the proxy needs to be downstream of the =B3home proxy=B2 for incoming SIP
>requests. The only reason I am aware of is that the inbound SIP request
>needs to either have a device contact rather than an AOR in the R-URI, or
>the proxy needs to have other knowledge of the contact bindings (perhaps
>it has an out-of-band interface to the location services).

Correct. I will see whether I can make that more clear.


>> When it comes to inbound SIP requests (non-REGISTER) there are no push
>>specific procedures for the proxy.
>
>I think we are using =B3inbound=B2 in opposite ways :-) I meant requests
>_toward_ the UA that is using the push service.

Ok. But, as said above, the assumption is that the R-URI of the request
will contain the contact (hence the reason why the proxy needs to be
downstream of the =B3home proxy=B2).

---

>>=20
>>> 3. The mechanism seems to assume a single contact binding exists at
>>>any one time, and that any given REGISTER request
>>> relates to that binding. How is this expected to work if multiple
>>>bindings exist at the same time, perhaps with different
>>> expiration times? What if the user has multiple clients that are
>>>creating bindings, some supporting this mechanism and others not
>>>supporting it?
>>=20
>> Robert suggested the following modified paragraph in section 5.3.2 to
>>cover that:
>>=20
>>   "In case of a 2xx response to the REGISTER request, once the proxy
>>has forwarded
>>   the REGISTER response towards the UA, if one of the contacts in the
>>REGISTER
>>   response matches the Request-URI of the SIP request to be forwarded,
>>and if that
>>   contact has not expired, the proxy can forward the SIP request
>>towards the UA, using
>>   normal SIP procedures. If none of the contacts of the most recent
>>REGISTER
>>   2xx response and Request-URI do not match, the proxy MUST reject the
>>   SIP request with a 404 (Not Found) response.=B2
>
>That=B9s better, but I don=B9t think it=B9s enough. The draft needs to
>explicitly discuss the implications of multiple clients, and multiple
>contacts per client.
>
>For example, what happens if I have multiple clients, all using the push
>service? What if not all are using the push service? What if the proxy is
>in path for all of them? What if it is only in the path for some of them?
>Keep in mind that a REGISTER _response_ includes all current bindings,
>including bindings that may not belong to the UA that sent the REGISTER
>in response to the push notification.

Even if a client has registered multiple contacts, the inbound SIP request
will only contain one of the contacts in the R-URI. How the =B3home proxy=
=B2
decides which contact to place in the R-URI is outside the scope of the
document.

>What happens if a single client has multiple bindings (perhaps one for
>IPv4 and one for IPv6)? Do both refresh at the same time?

Assuming they both use the same push notification subscription, yes. I can
add text which clarifies that.

Regards,

Christer


From nobody Wed Aug 22 01:16:20 2018
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From: Christer Holmberg 
To: Ben Campbell 
CC: "draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push.all@ietf.org" , "sipcore@ietf.org" , "sipcore-chairs@ietf.org" 
Thread-Topic: [sipcore] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-11 - Other issues
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Subject: Re: [sipcore] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-11 - Other issues
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Hi,

...

>>> - Please elaborate on the practical effect of supporting VAPID.
>>=20
>> I am not sure how much information this document should contain. There
>>is already a reference, and the Security Considerations contains the
>>following paragraph:
>>=20
>>   "[RFC8292] defines a mechanism which allows a proxy to create a
>>   identity itself to a PNS, by signing a JWT sent to the PNS using a
>>   key pair.  The public key serves as an identifier of the proxy, and
>>   can be used by devices to restrict push notifications to the proxy
>>   associated with the key."
>>=20
>> (Later you have a comment on this paragraph, but it is editorial)
>
>I was asking about the impact on the SIP behavior. Do we expect the SIP
>client to do something with the capability indicator value? Maybe record
>the value pass it to the =B3push" client? Only send a new register when th=
e
>right VAPID related things happens in the push protocol?

VAPID is used to restrict the push notifications the SIP UA will receive
in the first place. But, once it does receive a push notification, there
is no special behaviour. It will send a REGISTER etc, using the normal
procedures.

---

>>=20
>>> - " If the REGISTER response does not contain a a =B9sip.pnsreg=B9
>>>feature- capability indicator, the UA SHOULD only send a
>>> re-registration REGISTER request when it receives a push notification
>>>(even if the UA is able to use a non-push mechanism for
>>> sending re-registration REGISTER requests).=B2
>>>=20
>>> Why? That=B9s normal SIP behavior for UAs that do not support this
>>>mechanism, so the registrar must be able to handle it.
>>> (If there=B9s a good reason, please explain it in the draft.)
>>=20
>> The registrar will for sure be able to handle it, but if the proxy is
>>anyway going to trigger REGISTER requests using push notifications, I
>>see no reason for the UA to trigger REGISTER requests "on its own=B2.
>
>So the concern is additional unnecessary REGISTER requests?
>
>What happens if a binding is about to expire, but the client hasn=B9t
>gotten a push notification? What if the clients network configuration
>changes in a way that forces adding or removing contacts; should it wait
>for a push notification to send a new REGISTER request? Can it terminate
>a binding proactively, or does it need to wait for that, too?

If the SIP UA has a good reason to send a non-push triggered REGISTER, it
can do so. That=B9s why it is a SHOULD :)

As you indicate, the only reason for not sending non-push triggered
REGISTER requests is to avoid unnecessary requests, but nothing will break
if they are sent.

---

>>=20
>>> - =B3 NOTE: If the SIP UA application wants to use push notifications f=
or
>>>  other purposes than to trigger re-registration requests, it needs to
>>>  be able to distinguish between the different purposes when receiving
>>>  push notifications.  Mechanisms for doing that are outside the scope
>>>  of this specification."
>>>=20
>>> I can see keeping how you distinguish between SIP related
>>>notifications and other kinds of notifications. But what if the UA uses
>>> more than one SIP services that supports push notifications?
>>=20
>> Each UA application will have a separate push notification
>>subscription, use separate registrations etc.
>>=20
>> (Now, if a single UA handles multiple SIP services I see no reason from
>>a non-push scenario: when the UA receives a request it needs to figure
>>out to which service the request is "dispatched=B2.)
>
>I was thinking in terms of a single UA application. Let=B9s say it has
>successfully registered with service FOO and service BAR. They both
>support push. If it gets a push notification, how does it know which
>binding to refresh? Should it refresh both?

Yes. If you have multiple contacts (no matter whether they are for
different services, different IP versions, or something else) associated
with a single push notification subscription, a push notification will
request them all to refresh.

---

>>> - =B3 If the contact of the most recent REGISTER
>>>  2xx response and Request-URI do not match, the proxy MUST reject the
>>>  SIP request with a 404 (Not Found) response.  This can happen if the
>>>  UA sends a re-registration REGISTER request with a new contact at the
>>>  same time the registrar forwards a SIP request towards a UA using the
>>>  previously registered contact in the Request-URI.=B2
>>>=20
>>> Why doesn=B9t the proxy forward using normal SIP procedures? It=B9s
>>>entirely possible that an UAS address changes during an inbound
>>>transaction
>>> in normal SIP. Why is that different with push notifications? (this
>>>section seems to replace normal SIP request routing. That shouldn=B9t
>>>happen
>>> without a really good reason. If normal SIP procedures are inadequate,
>>>please explain why.
>>=20
>> In order for the proxy to forward the SIP request, it needs to be able
>>to match the R-URI of the request with the contact in the REGISTER
>>request/response.
>>=20
>> Now, the proxy could of course not wait for the REGISTER response, and
>>simply forward the request when it receives a REGISTER request with a
>>contact that matches the R-URI. But, if the registrar for whatever
>>reason no longer accepts the registered contact, the proxy have
>>forwarded the request before the REGISTER response informs it about the
>>not-accepted contact.
>>=20
>> But, as you say, that could happen with any proxy, so we could say that
>>the proxy forwards the request as soon as it receives a REGISTER request
>>with a matching contact. That would also be better from the
>>non-invite-transaction-timeout perspective, as the proxy does not need
>>to wait for the REGISTER response before it forwards the request.
>
>I see there=B9s been some discussion of this, but for the record, my
>question was not about waiting for the response, it was about requiring
>the R-URI to match the contact from that particular REGISTER.
>
>For normal SIP, there=B9s always the chance a client may change it=B9s
>contact between the time the home proxy retargets the request and it
>arrives (or fails to arrive) at the client. Is that problem worse with
>push? (Maybe it is, if we assume that push clients do not proactively
>send new REGISTER requests when their contacts change)

It is not a problem with push. The proxy will forward the request using
the old contact, but that could happen also in non-push scenarios.

In a previous version of the draft, the proxy actually did check that the
contacts match, but Robert commented that we can remove it: the proxy will
forward the SIP request using normal proxy procedures.

---

>>=20
>>> =A76.2: Why does the UAC need to know the failure was due to push
>>>notification? What would it do differently than for other kinds of
>>> failures? (This seems like a privacy leak; does the recipient want the
>>>sender to know he or she is on a mobile
>>> device?)
>>=20
>> I am not sure whether the information is very useful for the UAC, but
>>the "home proxy" may perhaps trigger different actions depending on what
>>response it receives.
>>=20
>> Push can also be used on non-mobile devices, e.g., on tablets where one
>>wants to save battery.
>
>Regardless, it tells the sender something about the client=B9s device that
>it did not already know. I think we need better justification than just
>saying the home proxy might need it; are there expected scenarios where
>it _will_ need it?

Ok, I will look into this.

---

>>>=A711: =B3 If the push notification related information carried in SIP
>>>could be
>>>  used by a malicious middleman to trigger push notifications towards a
>>>  device, operators MUST ensure that the SIP signalling is properly
>>>  secured from malicious middlemen, e.g., using encryption.=B2
>>>=20
>>> This could use some elaboration. I think the sense of this is
>>>backwards. That is, the signaling MUST be secured unless
>>> there are factors that make it impossible for an active attacker to
>>>use the informaiton.
>>=20
>> Isn't that what the text says? :)
>>=20
>
>It changes the burden of proof. The original text suggests that they only
>need to secure the signaling if they think they the information could be
>used maliciously. My suggestion is to say they need to secure the
>signaling unless they are sure it cannot be used maliciously. These are
>not the same thing.

What about:

=B3Operators MUST ensure that the SIP signalling is properly secured, e.g.,
using encryption, from malicious middlemen, unless they are sure that the
signalling cannot be accessed and used maliciously (e.g., to trigger push
notifications towards a deice) by a middleman.=B2

---

>>=20
>>> =A712.5: The template contains a =B3document=B2 field, but the registra=
tion
>>>policy is =B3expert review=B2. Should this be =B3specification required=
=B2?
>>=20
>> "Document" (or "Reference") is used also for "expert review", isn't it?
>
>=B3Expert Review=B2 does not necessarily require a document. =B3Specificat=
ion
>required=B2 does.

There has to be some documentation for implementers. That could be a
document or a webpage.

So, perhaps we should then change to =B3Specification required=B2 - assumin=
g
that also covers webpages.

---

>>=20
>> Editorial Comments:
>>=20
>>> - General:
>>> =8B The draft has some readability issues. In particular, it pervasivel=
y
>>>uses long, convoluted sentences, lots of imbedded parenthetical
>>> phrases, improper comma placement, etc.
>>> =8B The draft pervasively mixes registration procedures with the
>>>handling of inbound SIP requests. Please consider separating those into
>>> different sections. I realize there are interdependencies, but it=B9s
>>>hard to follow as is.
>>=20
>> I will look into it, but when it comes to comma placements etc it would
>>be very useful with input from an English speaker on how to fix it.
>>=20
>>> - Abstract: s/awake/wake ; (or awaken)  (=B3awake=B2 is not a verb. Thi=
s
>>>repeats elsewhere in the draft. .)
>>=20
>> Someone told me to use "awake". But, I can change it.
>
>Maybe they meant =B3awaken=B2?

Perhaps.

So, =B3awaken=B2 is fine, but any instance of =B3awake=B2 should be =B3wake=
=B2?

---

>>=20
>>> =A75.3.1: =B3 If the proxy sends a SIP 555 (Push Notification Service N=
ot
>>>Supported) response=B2
>>> It would be helpful to describe 555 before this.
>>=20
>> Are you suggesting to move section 6 (Grammar) up?
>
>Not necessarily; just a brief mention that it=B9s defined in this document=
.
>Or just a forward reference.

Ok. IF we decide to keep the 555 response code (you have a separate issue
on whether we need the push-specific response codes) I will fix it.

Thanks!

Regards,

Christer

>


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Cc: "draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push.all@ietf.org" ,  "sipcore@ietf.org" , "sipcore-chairs@ietf.org" 
To: Christer Holmberg 
References:   
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Subject: Re: [sipcore] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-11 - Other issues
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> On Aug 22, 2018, at 3:16 AM, Christer Holmberg =
 wrote:
>=20
> Hi,
>=20
> ...
>=20
>>>> - Please elaborate on the practical effect of supporting VAPID.
>>>=20
>>> I am not sure how much information this document should contain. =
There
>>> is already a reference, and the Security Considerations contains the
>>> following paragraph:
>>>=20
>>>  "[RFC8292] defines a mechanism which allows a proxy to create a
>>>  identity itself to a PNS, by signing a JWT sent to the PNS using a
>>>  key pair.  The public key serves as an identifier of the proxy, and
>>>  can be used by devices to restrict push notifications to the proxy
>>>  associated with the key."
>>>=20
>>> (Later you have a comment on this paragraph, but it is editorial)
>>=20
>> I was asking about the impact on the SIP behavior. Do we expect the =
SIP
>> client to do something with the capability indicator value? Maybe =
record
>> the value pass it to the =C2=B3push" client? Only send a new register =
when the
>> right VAPID related things happens in the push protocol?
>=20
> VAPID is used to restrict the push notifications the SIP UA will =
receive
> in the first place. But, once it does receive a push notification, =
there
> is no special behaviour. It will send a REGISTER etc, using the normal
> procedures.
>=20

So the client doesn=E2=80=99t need to do anything with the value it gets =
in the capability indicator in SIP?

> ---
>=20
>>>=20
>>>> - " If the REGISTER response does not contain a a =C2=B9sip.pnsreg=C2=
=B9
>>>> feature- capability indicator, the UA SHOULD only send a
>>>> re-registration REGISTER request when it receives a push =
notification
>>>> (even if the UA is able to use a non-push mechanism for
>>>> sending re-registration REGISTER requests).=C2=B2
>>>>=20
>>>> Why? That=C2=B9s normal SIP behavior for UAs that do not support =
this
>>>> mechanism, so the registrar must be able to handle it.
>>>> (If there=C2=B9s a good reason, please explain it in the draft.)
>>>=20
>>> The registrar will for sure be able to handle it, but if the proxy =
is
>>> anyway going to trigger REGISTER requests using push notifications, =
I
>>> see no reason for the UA to trigger REGISTER requests "on its own=C2=B2=
.
>>=20
>> So the concern is additional unnecessary REGISTER requests?
>>=20
>> What happens if a binding is about to expire, but the client hasn=C2=B9=
t
>> gotten a push notification? What if the clients network configuration
>> changes in a way that forces adding or removing contacts; should it =
wait
>> for a push notification to send a new REGISTER request? Can it =
terminate
>> a binding proactively, or does it need to wait for that, too?
>=20
> If the SIP UA has a good reason to send a non-push triggered REGISTER, =
it
> can do so. That=C2=B9s why it is a SHOULD :)
>=20
> As you indicate, the only reason for not sending non-push triggered
> REGISTER requests is to avoid unnecessary requests, but nothing will =
break
> if they are sent.

SHOULD is still pretty strong. If there are non-exceptional =
circumstances where we expect a normal client to send non-triggered =
REGISTERs, then SHOULD is not appropriate. To push on one of my =
examples: If the client learns that its network configuration has =
changed in a way that invalidates an existing binding, would it be good =
or bad behavior to wait for a push notification?

>=20
> ---
>=20
>>>=20
>>>> - =C2=B3 NOTE: If the SIP UA application wants to use push =
notifications for
>>>> other purposes than to trigger re-registration requests, it needs =
to
>>>> be able to distinguish between the different purposes when =
receiving
>>>> push notifications.  Mechanisms for doing that are outside the =
scope
>>>> of this specification."
>>>>=20
>>>> I can see keeping how you distinguish between SIP related
>>>> notifications and other kinds of notifications. But what if the UA =
uses
>>>> more than one SIP services that supports push notifications?
>>>=20
>>> Each UA application will have a separate push notification
>>> subscription, use separate registrations etc.
>>>=20
>>> (Now, if a single UA handles multiple SIP services I see no reason =
from
>>> a non-push scenario: when the UA receives a request it needs to =
figure
>>> out to which service the request is "dispatched=C2=B2.)
>>=20
>> I was thinking in terms of a single UA application. Let=C2=B9s say it =
has
>> successfully registered with service FOO and service BAR. They both
>> support push. If it gets a push notification, how does it know which
>> binding to refresh? Should it refresh both?
>=20
> Yes. If you have multiple contacts (no matter whether they are for
> different services, different IP versions, or something else) =
associated
> with a single push notification subscription, a push notification will
> request them all to refresh.

Unless I missed text that said that, it would be good to say that :-)

I can imagine a somewhat cleaner solution that sends something in a push =
body to identify which service (or binding) to refresh, but that could =
be a later extension.

>=20
> ---
>=20
>>>> - =C2=B3 If the contact of the most recent REGISTER
>>>> 2xx response and Request-URI do not match, the proxy MUST reject =
the
>>>> SIP request with a 404 (Not Found) response.  This can happen if =
the
>>>> UA sends a re-registration REGISTER request with a new contact at =
the
>>>> same time the registrar forwards a SIP request towards a UA using =
the
>>>> previously registered contact in the Request-URI.=C2=B2
>>>>=20
>>>> Why doesn=C2=B9t the proxy forward using normal SIP procedures? =
It=C2=B9s
>>>> entirely possible that an UAS address changes during an inbound
>>>> transaction
>>>> in normal SIP. Why is that different with push notifications? (this
>>>> section seems to replace normal SIP request routing. That =
shouldn=C2=B9t
>>>> happen
>>>> without a really good reason. If normal SIP procedures are =
inadequate,
>>>> please explain why.
>>>=20
>>> In order for the proxy to forward the SIP request, it needs to be =
able
>>> to match the R-URI of the request with the contact in the REGISTER
>>> request/response.
>>>=20
>>> Now, the proxy could of course not wait for the REGISTER response, =
and
>>> simply forward the request when it receives a REGISTER request with =
a
>>> contact that matches the R-URI. But, if the registrar for whatever
>>> reason no longer accepts the registered contact, the proxy have
>>> forwarded the request before the REGISTER response informs it about =
the
>>> not-accepted contact.
>>>=20
>>> But, as you say, that could happen with any proxy, so we could say =
that
>>> the proxy forwards the request as soon as it receives a REGISTER =
request
>>> with a matching contact. That would also be better from the
>>> non-invite-transaction-timeout perspective, as the proxy does not =
need
>>> to wait for the REGISTER response before it forwards the request.
>>=20
>> I see there=C2=B9s been some discussion of this, but for the record, =
my
>> question was not about waiting for the response, it was about =
requiring
>> the R-URI to match the contact from that particular REGISTER.
>>=20
>> For normal SIP, there=C2=B9s always the chance a client may change =
it=C2=B9s
>> contact between the time the home proxy retargets the request and it
>> arrives (or fails to arrive) at the client. Is that problem worse =
with
>> push? (Maybe it is, if we assume that push clients do not proactively
>> send new REGISTER requests when their contacts change)
>=20
> It is not a problem with push. The proxy will forward the request =
using
> the old contact, but that could happen also in non-push scenarios.
>=20
> In a previous version of the draft, the proxy actually did check that =
the
> contacts match, but Robert commented that we can remove it: the proxy =
will
> forward the SIP request using normal proxy procedures.

Hmm. Version 13 has been updated to talk about matching =E2=80=9Cone of =
the contacts=E2=80=9D and to check for expiration, but I don=E2=80=99t =
see where the requirement to match the contact has been removed.

>=20
> ---
>=20
>>>=20
>>>> =C2=A76.2: Why does the UAC need to know the failure was due to =
push
>>>> notification? What would it do differently than for other kinds of
>>>> failures? (This seems like a privacy leak; does the recipient want =
the
>>>> sender to know he or she is on a mobile
>>>> device?)
>>>=20
>>> I am not sure whether the information is very useful for the UAC, =
but
>>> the "home proxy" may perhaps trigger different actions depending on =
what
>>> response it receives.
>>>=20
>>> Push can also be used on non-mobile devices, e.g., on tablets where =
one
>>> wants to save battery.
>>=20
>> Regardless, it tells the sender something about the client=C2=B9s =
device that
>> it did not already know. I think we need better justification than =
just
>> saying the home proxy might need it; are there expected scenarios =
where
>> it _will_ need it?
>=20
> Ok, I will look into this.
>=20
> ---
>=20
>>>> =C2=A711: =C2=B3 If the push notification related information =
carried in SIP
>>>> could be
>>>> used by a malicious middleman to trigger push notifications towards =
a
>>>> device, operators MUST ensure that the SIP signalling is properly
>>>> secured from malicious middlemen, e.g., using encryption.=C2=B2
>>>>=20
>>>> This could use some elaboration. I think the sense of this is
>>>> backwards. That is, the signaling MUST be secured unless
>>>> there are factors that make it impossible for an active attacker to
>>>> use the informaiton.
>>>=20
>>> Isn't that what the text says? :)
>>>=20
>>=20
>> It changes the burden of proof. The original text suggests that they =
only
>> need to secure the signaling if they think they the information could =
be
>> used maliciously. My suggestion is to say they need to secure the
>> signaling unless they are sure it cannot be used maliciously. These =
are
>> not the same thing.
>=20
> What about:
>=20
> =C2=B3Operators MUST ensure that the SIP signalling is properly =
secured, e.g.,
> using encryption, from malicious middlemen, unless they are sure that =
the
> signalling cannot be accessed and used maliciously (e.g., to trigger =
push
> notifications towards a deice) by a middleman.=C2=B2
>=20

WFM

> ---
>=20
>>>=20
>>>> =C2=A712.5: The template contains a =C2=B3document=C2=B2 field, but =
the registration
>>>> policy is =C2=B3expert review=C2=B2. Should this be =C2=B3specificati=
on required=C2=B2?
>>>=20
>>> "Document" (or "Reference") is used also for "expert review", isn't =
it?
>>=20
>> =C2=B3Expert Review=C2=B2 does not necessarily require a document. =
=C2=B3Specification
>> required=C2=B2 does.
>=20
> There has to be some documentation for implementers. That could be a
> document or a webpage.
>=20
> So, perhaps we should then change to =C2=B3Specification required=C2=B2 =
- assuming
> that also covers webpages.

The main thing that =E2=80=9Cspecification required=E2=80=9D requires is =
some form of spec that is publicly available and reasonably expected to =
be available well into the future. If those are not requirements, then =
=E2=80=9Cexpert review=E2=80=9D could still be appropriate.

>=20
> ---
>=20
>>>=20
>>> Editorial Comments:
>>>=20
>>>> - General:
>>>> =E2=80=B9 The draft has some readability issues. In particular, it =
pervasively
>>>> uses long, convoluted sentences, lots of imbedded parenthetical
>>>> phrases, improper comma placement, etc.
>>>> =E2=80=B9 The draft pervasively mixes registration procedures with =
the
>>>> handling of inbound SIP requests. Please consider separating those =
into
>>>> different sections. I realize there are interdependencies, but =
it=C2=B9s
>>>> hard to follow as is.
>>>=20
>>> I will look into it, but when it comes to comma placements etc it =
would
>>> be very useful with input from an English speaker on how to fix it.
>>>=20
>>>> - Abstract: s/awake/wake ; (or awaken)  (=C2=B3awake=C2=B2 is not a =
verb. This
>>>> repeats elsewhere in the draft. .)
>>>=20
>>> Someone told me to use "awake". But, I can change it.
>>=20
>> Maybe they meant =C2=B3awaken=C2=B2?
>=20
> Perhaps.
>=20
> So, =C2=B3awaken=C2=B2 is fine, but any instance of =C2=B3awake=C2=B2 =
should be =C2=B3wake=C2=B2?

Pretty much. =E2=80=9Cwake=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9Cawaken=E2=80=9D are =
verbs. =E2=80=9Cawake=E2=80=9D is an adjective.

>=20
> ---
>=20
>>>=20
>>>> =C2=A75.3.1: =C2=B3 If the proxy sends a SIP 555 (Push Notification =
Service Not
>>>> Supported) response=C2=B2
>>>> It would be helpful to describe 555 before this.
>>>=20
>>> Are you suggesting to move section 6 (Grammar) up?
>>=20
>> Not necessarily; just a brief mention that it=C2=B9s defined in this =
document


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Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2018 17:08:26 -0500
In-Reply-To: 
Cc: "draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push.all@ietf.org" ,  Robert Sparks , "sipcore@ietf.org" , "sipcore-chairs@ietf.org" 
To: Christer Holmberg 
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Subject: Re: [sipcore] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-11 - Major issues
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> On Aug 22, 2018, at 1:46 AM, Christer Holmberg =
 wrote:
>=20
> Hi Ben,
>=20
>>> On Aug 8, 2018, at 1:53 AM, Christer Holmberg
>>>  wrote:
>>>=20
>>> Hi Ben,
>>>=20
>>> Thanks for you review! In order to avoid super long e-mails, in this
>>> reply I will address your Major issues.
>>>=20
>>> Also, Robert Sparks raised more or less the same issues off-line. I =
was
>>> going to bring them to the list, but I'll deal with them in this =
thread.
>>>=20
>>>> In summary, I don=C2=B9t think this draft is ready for IETF last =
call.
>>>> There are significant issues that I think need further attention
>>>> from the working group before this can progress. I am returning the
>>>> draft to the working group, and will change the state to =C2=B3AD =
is
>>>> Watching=C2=B2.
>>>=20
>>> Major Issues:
>>>=20
>>> ---
>>>=20
>>>> 1. The mechanism makes SIP transactions pend for an indeterminate
>>>> period of time while the push notification is processed, the
>>>> recipient wakes up and sends a REGISTER request, and the registrar
>>>> processes that request. This is a problem for non-INVITE =
transactions,
>>>> and is not optimal for any transaction. (The issues with doing this =
to
>>>> a non-INVITE transaction are best described in RFC 4321.)
>>>>=20
>>>> At least for the non-INVITE case, has the working group considered =
a
>>>> model where the transaction completes and the UAC resends it at
>>>> some point in the future? (For example, a 4XX response with
>>>> retry-after)
>>>=20
>>> It is true that, in the case of non-INVITEs, the proxy cannot wait =
that
>>> long for the REGISTER.
>>>=20
>>> When I discussed this with Robert, I suggested the following new
>>> paragraph to be added to section 5.3.2:
>>>=20
>>> "As describe above, there are cases where the proxy will reject the =
SIP
>>> request and send an error response towards the UAC. While waiting =
for
>>> the notification request to succeed, or the REGISTER request to =
arrive
>>> from the SIP UA, the proxy needs to take into consideration that the
>>> transaction associated with the SIP request will eventually time out =
at
>>> the sender (UAC), and the sender will consider the transaction a
>>> failure. If the proxy forwards the SIP request towards the SIP UA, =
the
>>> SIP UA accepts the request and the transaction times out at the =
sender
>>> before it receives the successful response, this will cause state
>>> misalignment between the endpoints (the sender will consider the
>>> transaction a failure, while the receiver will consider the =
transaction
>>> a success). The SIP proxy needs to take this into account when =
deciding
>>> for how long to wait before it considers the transaction associated =
with
>>> the SIP request a failure, to make sure that the error response =
reaches
>>> the sender before the transaction times out.=C2=B2
>>=20
>> I am okay with the the way this is handled in version 13, modulo the =
fact
>> that I agree with Robert that 480 is a better choice than 404. I wish =
we
>> could just throw =C2=B3retry-after=C2=B2 in and expect clients to do =
the right
>> thing, but we can=C2=B9t.
>>=20
>>>=20
>>> I have talked to my product people, and the good part is that the =
push
>>> mechanisms is fast enough to not cause any transaction timeout =
issues
>>> (it has been tested with SIP MESSAGE requests).
>>=20
>> I can only assume that they tested for specific deployments and =
specific
>> PNSs. I image the PNS latency can vary a lot, depending on the PNS
>> itself, the transient load on the PNS, SIP network conditions, etc. =
So
>> I=C2=B9m hesitant to treat such testing as proof that this won=C2=B9t =
be a problem
>> in some cases.
>=20
> It was not meant as a =C2=B3proof=C2=B2 that things will always work - =
of course
> things can go wrong. But, since the issue was raised, I provided input
> based on the testing/deployment information I have :)

I think we covered this in discussion of version 13.

>=20
> ---
>=20
>>>=20
>>>> 2. The architectural assumptions are unclear. In particular, the =
role
>>>> of the proxy in the SIP network is unclear. In some parts
>>>> of the draft, it appears the proxy must be co-located with the
>>>> registrar, but others talk about a proxy that is on the path =
between
>>>> the UA and the registrar. Along the same lines, the draft needs to
>>>> clarify assumptions  about proxy=C2=B9s role for inbound SIP =
requests.
>>>> (For example, the R-URI in an inbound request may or may not match =
the
>>>> registered contact depending on whether the request has
>>>> been retargeted=E2=80=B9the R-URI could be an AoR rather than a =
registered
>>>> contact.)
>>>=20
>>> The proxy needs to be located between the UA and the proxy that puts
>>> the registered contact into the R-URI of the SIP request (the UA's =
"home
>>> proxy").
>>>=20
>>> When talking to Robert, I realized that the text in some places =
wrongly
>>> calls that home proxy "registrar". A registrar only handles REGISTER
>>> request. It does not replace the R-URI, forward non-REGISTER =
requests
>>> etc.
>>>=20
>>=20
>> Version 13 is improved. I think it could use some elaboration about =
why
>> the proxy needs to be downstream of the =C2=B3home proxy=C2=B2 for =
incoming SIP
>> requests. The only reason I am aware of is that the inbound SIP =
request
>> needs to either have a device contact rather than an AOR in the =
R-URI, or
>> the proxy needs to have other knowledge of the contact bindings =
(perhaps
>> it has an out-of-band interface to the location services).
>=20
> Correct. I will see whether I can make that more clear.

Thanks.

>=20
>=20
>>> When it comes to inbound SIP requests (non-REGISTER) there are no =
push
>>> specific procedures for the proxy.
>>=20
>> I think we are using =C2=B3inbound=C2=B2 in opposite ways :-) I meant =
requests
>> _toward_ the UA that is using the push service.
>=20
> Ok. But, as said above, the assumption is that the R-URI of the =
request
> will contain the contact (hence the reason why the proxy needs to be
> downstream of the =C2=B3home proxy=C2=B2).

Right.

>=20
> ---
>=20
>>>=20
>>>> 3. The mechanism seems to assume a single contact binding exists at
>>>> any one time, and that any given REGISTER request
>>>> relates to that binding. How is this expected to work if multiple
>>>> bindings exist at the same time, perhaps with different
>>>> expiration times? What if the user has multiple clients that are
>>>> creating bindings, some supporting this mechanism and others not
>>>> supporting it?
>>>=20
>>> Robert suggested the following modified paragraph in section 5.3.2 =
to
>>> cover that:
>>>=20
>>>  "In case of a 2xx response to the REGISTER request, once the proxy
>>> has forwarded
>>>  the REGISTER response towards the UA, if one of the contacts in the
>>> REGISTER
>>>  response matches the Request-URI of the SIP request to be =
forwarded,
>>> and if that
>>>  contact has not expired, the proxy can forward the SIP request
>>> towards the UA, using
>>>  normal SIP procedures. If none of the contacts of the most recent
>>> REGISTER
>>>  2xx response and Request-URI do not match, the proxy MUST reject =
the
>>>  SIP request with a 404 (Not Found) response.=C2=B2
>>=20
>> That=C2=B9s better, but I don=C2=B9t think it=C2=B9s enough. The =
draft needs to
>> explicitly discuss the implications of multiple clients, and multiple
>> contacts per client.
>>=20
>> For example, what happens if I have multiple clients, all using the =
push
>> service? What if not all are using the push service? What if the =
proxy is
>> in path for all of them? What if it is only in the path for some of =
them?
>> Keep in mind that a REGISTER _response_ includes all current =
bindings,
>> including bindings that may not belong to the UA that sent the =
REGISTER
>> in response to the push notification.
>=20
> Even if a client has registered multiple contacts, the inbound SIP =
request
> will only contain one of the contacts in the R-URI. How the =C2=B3home =
proxy=C2=B2
> decides which contact to place in the R-URI is outside the scope of =
the
> document.

So I was thinking in terms of the following scenario:

Imagine I have client A and client B that I use for the same service. =
The push-proxy is on the registration path for both of them. The push =
proxy receives an inbound INVITE that has been targeted to client A. =
Further assume that client A has lost it=E2=80=99s network connection.

The push requests a push notification to client A. At some point before =
the proxy decides to fail the transaction, client B sends a register =
request. The _response_ to that request will contain the contacts for =
both A and B. I _think_ that will cause the push proxy to forward the =
INVITE towards A, which will fail.  (Maybe that=E2=80=99s okay, as it is =
pretty much the same as what would happen without push).

But as a variation, imagine the home proxy parallel forked the INVITE to =
both A and B. The push proxy requests notifications to both clients. =
Only B sends a REGISTER. How does the push-proxy know which (forked) =
INVITE to forward? Does it forward both?

What am I missing?


>=20
>> What happens if a single client has multiple bindings (perhaps one =
for
>> IPv4 and one for IPv6)? Do both refresh at the same time?
>=20
> Assuming they both use the same push notification subscription, yes. I =
can
> add text which clarifies that.
>=20
> Regards,
>=20
> Christer
>=20


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From: Christer Holmberg 
To: Ben Campbell 
CC: "draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push.all@ietf.org" , "sipcore@ietf.org" , "sipcore-chairs@ietf.org" 
Thread-Topic: [sipcore] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-11 - Other issues
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Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2018 10:06:24 +0000
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Subject: Re: [sipcore] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-11 - Other issues
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From: Christer Holmberg 
To: Ben Campbell 
CC: "draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push.all@ietf.org" , Robert Sparks , "sipcore@ietf.org" , "sipcore-chairs@ietf.org" 
Thread-Topic: [sipcore] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-11 - Major issues
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Subject: Re: [sipcore] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-11 - Major issues
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Cc: "draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push.all@ietf.org" ,  Robert Sparks , "sipcore@ietf.org" , "sipcore-chairs@ietf.org" 
To: Christer Holmberg 
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Subject: Re: [sipcore] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-11 - Major issues
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> On Aug 23, 2018, at 5:22 AM, Christer Holmberg =
 wrote:
>=20
> Hi,
>=20
> ...
>=20
>>>>>> 3. The mechanism seems to assume a single contact binding exists =
at
>>>>>> any one time, and that any given REGISTER request relates to that
>>>>>> binding. How is this expected to work if multiple bindings exist =
at
>>>>>> the same time, perhaps with different expiration times? What if =
the
>>>>>> user has multiple clients that are creating bindings, some
>>>>>> supporting this mechanism and others not supporting it?
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Robert suggested the following modified paragraph in section 5.3.2
>>>>> to cover that:
>>>>>=20
>>>>> "In case of a 2xx response to the REGISTER request, once the proxy
>>>>> has forwarded  the REGISTER response towards the UA, if one of the
>>>>> contacts in the REGISTER  response matches the Request-URI of the
>>>>> SIP request to be forwarded, and if that  contact has not expired,
>>>>> the proxy can forward the SIP request towards the UA, using  =
normal
>>>>> SIP procedures. If none of the contacts of the most recent =
REGISTER
>>>>> 2xx response and Request-URI do not match, the proxy MUST reject =
the
>>>>> SIP request with a 404 (Not Found) response.=C2=B2
>>>>=20
>>>> That's better, but I don't think it=C2=B9s enough. The draft needs =
to
>>>> explicitly discuss the implications of multiple clients, and =
multiple
>>>> contacts per client.
>>>>=20
>>>> For example, what happens if I have multiple clients, all using the
>>>> push service? What if not all are using the push service? What if =
the
>>>> proxy is in path for all of them? What if it is only in the path =
for some of them?
>>>> Keep in mind that a REGISTER _response_ includes all current
>>>> bindings, including bindings that may not belong to the UA that =
sent
>>>> the REGISTER in response to the push notification.
>>>=20
>>> Even if a client has registered multiple contacts, the inbound SIP
>>> request will only contain one of the contacts in the R-URI. How the
>>> "home proxy" decides which contact to place in the R-URI is outside
>>> the scope of the document.
>>=20
>> So I was thinking in terms of the following scenario:
>>=20
>> Imagine I have client A and client B that I use for the same service. =
The push-proxy is on the registration path for both
>> of them. The push proxy receives an inbound INVITE that has been =
targeted to client A. Further assume that client A has lost it=E2=80=99s
>> network connection.
>>=20
>> The push requests a push notification to client A. At some point =
before the proxy decides to fail the transaction, client B sends
>> a register request. The _response_ to that request will contain the =
contacts for both A and B. I _think_ that will cause the push
>> proxy to forward the INVITE towards A, which will fail.  (Maybe =
that=E2=80=99s okay, as it is pretty much the same as what would happen
>> without push).
>=20
> Correct. The contact of B will not match the R-URI of the inbound =
INVITE.
>=20
>> But as a variation, imagine the home proxy parallel forked the INVITE =
to both A and B. The push proxy requests notifications to
>> both clients. Only B sends a REGISTER. How does the push-proxy know =
which (forked) INVITE to forward? Does it forward both?
>=20
> The INVITEs will have different R-URIs, so they will be handled =
separately from each other. If only B sends a REGISTER, the INVITE =
addressed to B will be forwarded (assuming the contact of the REGISTER =
matches the R-URI of the INVITE). The INVITE addressed to A will fail.

My confusion was around how the push-proxy knows which one of the =
INVITEs the REGISTER matches up with. I had read things to say that this =
was determined by matching one of the contacts in the REGISTER =
_response_. Since the REGISTER response would contain both contacts, it =
would match both INVITEs.

But on re-reading, I was reminded of this paragraph in =C2=A75.3.2:

" As both the SIP request to be forwarded towards the UA, and the
   binding refresh REGISTER request triggered by the push notification
   request, will convey pn- SIP URI parameters associated with the SIP
   registration, those can be used to match the SIP request with the
   binding refresh REGISTER request (even if the most recent contact and
   the Request-URI of the SIP request do not match).=E2=80=9D

Assuming multiple clients for the same user still have different PRIDs , =
I guess that makes sense. But I think this needs more detail and a =
stronger (probably normative statement). In particular, since much of =
the section talks about matching contacts in responses, this match needs =
to happen against the REGISTER _request_, right? Since the PRID is a URI =
parameter, would it make sense to say that the REGISTER contact URI and =
the inbound request R-URI MUST both contain the same push-related =
parameters?

Thanks,

Ben.

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Cc: "draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push.all@ietf.org" ,  "sipcore@ietf.org" , "sipcore-chairs@ietf.org" 
To: Christer Holmberg 
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Subject: Re: [sipcore] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-11 - Other issues
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> On Aug 23, 2018, at 5:06 AM, Christer Holmberg =
 wrote:
>=20
> Hi,
>=20
>>>>>> - Please elaborate on the practical effect of supporting VAPID.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> I am not sure how much information this document should contain.
>>>>> There is already a reference, and the Security Considerations
>>>>> contains the following paragraph:
>>>>>=20
>>>>> "[RFC8292] defines a mechanism which allows a proxy to create a
>>>>> identity itself to a PNS, by signing a JWT sent to the PNS using a
>>>>> key pair.  The public key serves as an identifier of the proxy, =
and
>>>>> can be used by devices to restrict push notifications to the proxy
>>>>> associated with the key."
>>>>>=20
>>>>> (Later you have a comment on this paragraph, but it is editorial)
>>>>=20
>>>> I was asking about the impact on the SIP behavior. Do we expect the
>>>> SIP client to do something with the capability indicator value? =
Maybe
>>>> record the value pass it to the =C2=B3push" client? Only send a new
>>>> register when the right VAPID related things happens in the push =
protocol?
>>>=20
>>> VAPID is used to restrict the push notifications the SIP UA will
>>> receive in the first place. But, once it does receive a push
>>> notification, there is no special behaviour. It will send a REGISTER
>>> etc, using the normal procedures.
>>>=20
>>=20
>> So the client doesn=E2=80=99t need to do anything with the value it =
gets in the capability indicator in SIP?
>=20
> The client includes vapid information when it registers with the push =
notification service, but the subscribe details are outside the scope of =
the document.

The document should say that :-)


>=20
> ---
>=20
>>>>>> - " If the REGISTER response does not contain a a =C2=B9sip.pnsreg=C2=
=B9
>>>>>> feature- capability indicator, the UA SHOULD only send a
>>>>>> re-registration REGISTER request when it receives a push
>>>>>> notification (even if the UA is able to use a non-push mechanism
>>>>>> for sending re-registration REGISTER requests).=C2=B2
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> Why? That=C2=B9s normal SIP behavior for UAs that do not support =
this
>>>>>> mechanism, so the registrar must be able to handle it.
>>>>>> (If there=C2=B9s a good reason, please explain it in the draft.)
>>>>>=20
>>>>> The registrar will for sure be able to handle it, but if the proxy
>>>>> is anyway going to trigger REGISTER requests using push
>>>>> notifications, I see no reason for the UA to trigger REGISTER =
requests "on its own=C2=B2.
>>>>=20
>>>> So the concern is additional unnecessary REGISTER requests?
>>>>=20
>>>> What happens if a binding is about to expire, but the client =
hasn=C2=B9t
>>>> gotten a push notification? What if the clients network =
configuration
>>>> changes in a way that forces adding or removing contacts; should it
>>>> wait for a push notification to send a new REGISTER request? Can it
>>>> terminate a binding proactively, or does it need to wait for that, =
too?
>>>=20
>>> If the SIP UA has a good reason to send a non-push triggered =
REGISTER,
>>> it can do so. That=C2=B9s why it is a SHOULD :)
>>>=20
>>> As you indicate, the only reason for not sending non-push triggered
>>> REGISTER requests is to avoid unnecessary requests, but nothing will
>>> break if they are sent.
>>=20
>> SHOULD is still pretty strong. If there are non-exceptional =
circumstances where we expect a normal client to send
>> non-triggered REGISTERs, then SHOULD is not appropriate. To push on =
one of my examples: If the client learns that
>> its network configuration has changed in a way that invalidates an =
existing binding, would it be good or bad behavior
>> to wait for a push notification?
>=20
> If we add the "non-exceptional circumstances" to the SHOULD?
>=20
> Something like:
>=20
> "If the REGISTER response does not contain a a =C2=B9sip.pnsreg=C2=B9
> feature-capability indicator, the UA SHOULD only send a
> re-registration REGISTER request when it receives a push
> notification (even if the UA is able to use a non-push mechanism
> for sending re-registration REGISTER requests), or when there are
> circumstances (e.g., if the UA is assigned new contact parameters
> due to a network configuration change) that require an immediate
> REGISTER request to be sent.=E2=80=9D

That WFM.

>=20
> ---
>=20
>>>>>> - "NOTE: If the SIP UA application wants to use push =
notifications
>>>>>> for other purposes than to trigger re-registration requests, it
>>>>>> needs to be able to distinguish between the different purposes =
when
>>>>>> receiving push notifications.  Mechanisms for doing that are
>>>>>> outside the scope of this specification."
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> I can see keeping how you distinguish between SIP related
>>>>>> notifications and other kinds of notifications. But what if the =
UA
>>>>>> uses more than one SIP services that supports push notifications?
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Each UA application will have a separate push notification
>>>>> subscription, use separate registrations etc.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> (Now, if a single UA handles multiple SIP services I see no reason
>>>>> from a non-push scenario: when the UA receives a request it needs =
to
>>>>> figure out to which service the request is "dispatched=C2=B2.)
>>>>=20
>>>> I was thinking in terms of a single UA application. Let=C2=B9s say =
it has
>>>> successfully registered with service FOO and service BAR. They both
>>>> support push. If it gets a push notification, how does it know =
which
>>>> binding to refresh? Should it refresh both?
>>>=20
>>> Yes. If you have multiple contacts (no matter whether they are for
>>> different services, different IP versions, or something else)
>>> associated with a single push notification subscription, a push
>>> notification will request them all to refresh.
>>=20
>> Unless I missed text that said that, it would be good to say that :-)
>=20
> I will add text.
>=20
>> I can imagine a somewhat cleaner solution that sends something in a =
push body to identify which service (or binding) to refresh, but that =
could be a later extension.
>=20
> There have been discussions about sending such "metadata" associated =
with the SIP request as push notification payload, but we decided to =
leave that outside the document. It could be a candidate for future =
work, though.

Okay.

>=20
> ---
>=20
>>>>>> - "If the contact of the most recent REGISTER 2xx response and
>>>>>> Request-URI do not match, the proxy MUST reject the SIP request
>>>>>> with a 404 (Not Found) response.  This can happen if the UA sends =
a
>>>>>> re-registration REGISTER request with a new contact at the same
>>>>>> time the registrar forwards a SIP request towards a UA using the
>>>>>> previously registered contact in the Request-URI.=C2=B2
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> Why doesn=C2=B9t the proxy forward using normal SIP procedures? =
It=C2=B9s
>>>>>> entirely possible that an UAS address changes during an inbound
>>>>>> transaction in normal SIP. Why is that different with push
>>>>>> notifications? (this section seems to replace normal SIP request
>>>>>> routing. That shouldn=C2=B9t happen without a really good reason. =
If
>>>>>> normal SIP procedures are inadequate, please explain why.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> In order for the proxy to forward the SIP request, it needs to be
>>>>> able to match the R-URI of the request with the contact in the
>>>>> REGISTER request/response.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Now, the proxy could of course not wait for the REGISTER response,
>>>>> and simply forward the request when it receives a REGISTER request
>>>>> with a contact that matches the R-URI. But, if the registrar for
>>>>> whatever reason no longer accepts the registered contact, the =
proxy
>>>>> have forwarded the request before the REGISTER response informs it
>>>>> about the not-accepted contact.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> But, as you say, that could happen with any proxy, so we could say
>>>>> that the proxy forwards the request as soon as it receives a
>>>>> REGISTER request with a matching contact. That would also be =
better
>>>>> from the non-invite-transaction-timeout perspective, as the proxy
>>>>> does not need to wait for the REGISTER response before it forwards =
the request.
>>>>=20
>>>> I see there=C2=B9s been some discussion of this, but for the =
record, my
>>>> question was not about waiting for the response, it was about
>>>> requiring the R-URI to match the contact from that particular =
REGISTER.
>>>>=20
>>>> For normal SIP, there=C2=B9s always the chance a client may change =
it=C2=B9s
>>>> contact between the time the home proxy retargets the request and =
it
>>>> arrives (or fails to arrive) at the client. Is that problem worse
>>>> with push? (Maybe it is, if we assume that push clients do not
>>>> proactively send new REGISTER requests when their contacts change)
>>>=20
>>> It is not a problem with push. The proxy will forward the request
>>> using the old contact, but that could happen also in non-push =
scenarios.
>>>=20
>>> In a previous version of the draft, the proxy actually did check =
that
>>> the contacts match, but Robert commented that we can remove it: the
>>> proxy will forward the SIP request using normal proxy procedures.
>>=20
>> Hmm. Version 13 has been updated to talk about matching =E2=80=9Cone =
of the contacts=E2=80=9D and to check for expiration, but I
>> don=E2=80=99t see where the requirement to match the contact has been =
removed.
>=20
> Sorry, my reply was misleading. The R-URI still has to match one of =
the contacts of the REGISTER, but what has been removed is the =
requirement that the proxy has to wait for the REGISTER response before =
forwarding the SIP request, if the proxy is able to authenticate the =
sender of the REGISTER request.
>=20

The REGISTER or the REGISTER _response_? (See my response about multiple =
clients in the =E2=80=9Cmajor issue=E2=80=9D thread--I think these are =
related)

> ...
>=20
>>>>>> =C2=A712.5: The template contains a "document" field, but the
>>>>>> registration policy is "expert review". Should this be =
"specification required"?
>>>>>=20
>>>>> "Document" (or "Reference") is used also for "expert review", =
isn't it?
>>>>=20
>>>> "Expert Review" does not necessarily require a document.
>>>> "Specification required" does.
>>>=20
>>> There has to be some documentation for implementers. That could be a
>>> document or a webpage.
>>>=20
>>> So, perhaps we should then change to "Specification required" -
>>> assuming that also covers webpages.
>>=20
>> The main thing that =E2=80=9Cspecification required=E2=80=9D requires =
is some form of spec that is publicly available and reasonably expected =
to
>> be available well into the future. If those are not requirements, =
then =E2=80=9Cexpert review=E2=80=9D could still be appropriate.
>=20
> I think having a reference is good.
>=20
> For example, the document defines some pn-provider values, and I think =
it would be good if the registry indicates that they are defined in the =
document.

WFM.

>=20
> ...
>=20
>>>>>> =C2=A75.3.1: "If the proxy sends a SIP 555 (Push Notification =
Service
>>>>>> Not Supported) response"
>>>>>> It would be helpful to describe 555 before this.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Are you suggesting to move section 6 (Grammar) up?
>>>>=20
>>>> Not necessarily; just a brief mention that it=C2=B9s defined in =
this
>>>> document
>=20
> I talked with the product people about the push-specific response =
codes. Currently they are used only for trouble shooting, and don't =
trigger any response code-specific behaviour.

Is that a response to the quoted text about 555, or the discussion about =
556?

If the latter: I guess that comes down to a question about whether =
trouble-shooting is a sufficient reason for the new response code, and =
whether the potential to tell the caller things about the callee=E2=80=99s=
 device constitutes a privacy issue. Please don=E2=80=99t take my =
opinion there as an AD mandate--I=E2=80=99m curious if anyone else =
following this thread has thoughts?

>=20
> Regards,
>=20
> Christer


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From: Christer Holmberg 
To: Ben Campbell 
CC: "draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push.all@ietf.org" , Robert Sparks , "sipcore@ietf.org" , "sipcore-chairs@ietf.org" 
Thread-Topic: [sipcore] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-11 - Major issues
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Subject: Re: [sipcore] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-11 - Major issues
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From: Christer Holmberg 
To: Ben Campbell 
CC: "draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push.all@ietf.org" , "sipcore@ietf.org" , "sipcore-chairs@ietf.org" 
Thread-Topic: [sipcore] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-11 - Other issues
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Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2018 11:36:46 +0000
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Subject: Re: [sipcore] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-11 - Other issues
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Cc: "draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push.all@ietf.org" ,  "sipcore@ietf.org" , "sipcore-chairs@ietf.org" 
To: Christer Holmberg 
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Subject: Re: [sipcore] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-11 - Other issues
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> On Aug 24, 2018, at 6:36 AM, Christer Holmberg =
 wrote:
>=20

[...]

> ...
>=20
>>>>>>>> =C2=A712.5: The template contains a "document" field, but the
>>>>>>>> registration policy is "expert review". Should this be =
"specification required"?
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> "Document" (or "Reference") is used also for "expert review", =
isn't it?
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> "Expert Review" does not necessarily require a document.
>>>>>> "Specification required" does.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> There has to be some documentation for implementers. That could be =
a
>>>>> document or a webpage.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> So, perhaps we should then change to "Specification required" -
>>>>> assuming that also covers webpages.
>>>>=20
>>>> The main thing that =E2=80=9Cspecification required=E2=80=9D =
requires is some form of
>>>> spec that is publicly available and reasonably expected to be =
available well into the future. >>> If those are not requirements, then =
=E2=80=9Cexpert review=E2=80=9D could still be appropriate.
>>>=20
>>> I think having a reference is good.
>>>=20
>>> For example, the document defines some pn-provider values, and I =
think it would be good >> if the registry indicates that they are =
defined in the document.
>>=20
>> WFM.
>=20
> So, what do I do?

Sorry, I thought you were arguing for =E2=80=9Cspecification =
required=E2=80=9D.  But to be clear, I=E2=80=99m okay either way as long =
as the policy fits the intent. If a reference to a stable document is =
_required_, then =E2=80=9Cspecification required=E2=80=9D seems to fit =
better than =E2=80=9Cexpert review=E2=80=9D. If the doc is optional, the =
=E2=80=9Cexpert review=E2=80=9D makes sense. But it=E2=80=99s up to you =
whether the document is required.

>=20
> ...
>=20
>>>>>>>> =C2=A75.3.1: "If the proxy sends a SIP 555 (Push Notification =
Service
>>>>>>>> Not Supported) response"
>>>>>>>> It would be helpful to describe 555 before this.
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> Are you suggesting to move section 6 (Grammar) up?
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> Not necessarily; just a brief mention that it=C2=B9s defined in =
this
>>>>>> document
>>>=20
>>> I talked with the product people about the push-specific response =
codes.
>>> Currently they are used only for trouble shooting, and don't trigger =
any
>>> response code-specific behaviour.
>>=20
>> Is that a response to the quoted text about 555, or the discussion =
about 556?
>>=20
>> If the latter: I guess that comes down to a question about whether =
trouble-shooting
>> is a sufficient reason for the new response code, and whether the =
potential to tell the
>> caller things about the callee=E2=80=99s device constitutes a privacy =
issue. Please don=E2=80=99t take my
>> opinion there as an AD mandate--I=E2=80=99m curious if anyone else =
following this thread has
>> thoughts?
>=20
> The response was regarding both 555 and 556.
>=20
> However, while 556 could be replaced with something else (e.g., 480) I =
was told that 555 is useful to have. But, again, currently it is only =
used for trouble-shooting.

I have no objection to 555 (modulo a different comment below.) My =
concern was about 556 (assuming I have these straight--556 was the =
response to a third party UAC sending a request towards to push client, =
right?)

On reflection, and after talking to a few people, I=E2=80=99m okay with =
556 as an optional response, along with a sentence or two pointing out =
that it can have privacy implications. (I was reminded by those people =
that this is a tiny leak on top of all the legacy privacy leaks that SIP =
has.)

However, it also came up in discussion that perhaps at least 556 should =
be a 400 class error. Thoughts?

Thanks!

Ben.


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Cc: "draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push.all@ietf.org" ,  Robert Sparks , "sipcore@ietf.org" , "sipcore-chairs@ietf.org" 
To: Christer Holmberg 
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Subject: Re: [sipcore] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-11 - Major issues
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> On Aug 24, 2018, at 4:35 AM, Christer Holmberg =
 wrote:
>=20
> Hi,
>=20
>>>>>>>> 3. The mechanism seems to assume a single contact binding =
exists
>>>>>>>> at any one time, and that any given REGISTER request relates to
>>>>>>>> that binding. How is this expected to work if multiple bindings
>>>>>>>> exist at the same time, perhaps with different expiration =
times?
>>>>>>>> What if the user has multiple clients that are creating =
bindings,
>>>>>>>> some supporting this mechanism and others not supporting it?
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> Robert suggested the following modified paragraph in section =
5.3.2
>>>>>>> to cover that:
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> "In case of a 2xx response to the REGISTER request, once the =
proxy
>>>>>>> has forwarded  the REGISTER response towards the UA, if one of =
the
>>>>>>> contacts in the REGISTER  response matches the Request-URI of =
the
>>>>>>> SIP request to be forwarded, and if that  contact has not =
expired,
>>>>>>> the proxy can forward the SIP request towards the UA, using
>>>>>>> normal SIP procedures. If none of the contacts of the most =
recent
>>>>>>> REGISTER 2xx response and Request-URI do not match, the proxy =
MUST
>>>>>>> reject the SIP request with a 404 (Not Found) response.=C2=B2
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> That's better, but I don't think it=C2=B9s enough. The draft =
needs to
>>>>>> explicitly discuss the implications of multiple clients, and
>>>>>> multiple contacts per client.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> For example, what happens if I have multiple clients, all using =
the
>>>>>> push service? What if not all are using the push service? What if
>>>>>> the proxy is in path for all of them? What if it is only in the =
path for some of them?
>>>>>> Keep in mind that a REGISTER _response_ includes all current
>>>>>> bindings, including bindings that may not belong to the UA that
>>>>>> sent the REGISTER in response to the push notification.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Even if a client has registered multiple contacts, the inbound SIP
>>>>> request will only contain one of the contacts in the R-URI. How =
the
>>>>> "home proxy" decides which contact to place in the R-URI is =
outside
>>>>> the scope of the document.
>>>>=20
>>>> So I was thinking in terms of the following scenario:
>>>>=20
>>>> Imagine I have client A and client B that I use for the same =
service.
>>>> The push-proxy is on the registration path for both of them. The =
push
>>>> proxy receives an inbound INVITE that has been targeted to client =
A. Further assume that client A has lost it=E2=80=99s network =
connection.
>>>>=20
>>>> The push requests a push notification to client A. At some point
>>>> before the proxy decides to fail the transaction, client B sends a
>>>> register request. The _response_ to that request will contain the
>>>> contacts for both A and B. I _think_ that will cause the push proxy =
to forward the INVITE towards A,
>>>> which will fail.  (Maybe that=E2=80=99s okay, as it is pretty much =
the same as what would happen without push).
>>>=20
>>> Correct. The contact of B will not match the R-URI of the inbound =
INVITE.
>>>=20
>>>> But as a variation, imagine the home proxy parallel forked the =
INVITE
>>>> to both A and B. The push proxy requests notifications to both =
clients. Only B sends a REGISTER.
>>>> How does the push-proxy know which (forked) INVITE to forward? Does =
it forward both?
>>>=20
>>> The INVITEs will have different R-URIs, so they will be handled =
separately from each other. If only B sends a
>>> REGISTER, the INVITE addressed to B will be forwarded (assuming the =
contact of the REGISTER matches the
>>> R-URI of the INVITE). The INVITE addressed to A will fail.
>>=20
>> My confusion was around how the push-proxy knows which one of the =
INVITEs the REGISTER matches up with. I
>> had read things to say that this was determined by matching one of =
the contacts in the REGISTER _response_. Since
>> the REGISTER response would contain both contacts, it would match =
both INVITEs.
>>=20
>> But on re-reading, I was reminded of this paragraph in =C2=A75.3.2:
>>=20
>> " As both the SIP request to be forwarded towards the UA, and the
>>  binding refresh REGISTER request triggered by the push notification
>>  request, will convey pn- SIP URI parameters associated with the SIP
>>  registration, those can be used to match the SIP request with the
>>  binding refresh REGISTER request (even if the most recent contact =
and
>>  the Request-URI of the SIP request do not match).=E2=80=9D
>>=20
>> Assuming multiple clients for the same user still have different =
PRIDs , I guess that
>> makes sense. But I think this needs more detail and a stronger =
(probably normative statement).
>> In particular, since much of the section talks about matching =
contacts in responses, this match
>> needs to happen against the REGISTER _request_, right? Since the PRID =
is a URI parameter, would
>> it make sense to say that the REGISTER contact URI and the inbound =
request R-URI MUST both
>> contain the same push-related parameters?
>=20
> Ok, so the matching is done against the REGISTER request, but unless =
the proxy is able to authenticate the sender of the REGISTER it still =
needs to wait for the REGISTER response before it forwards the SIP =
request.

I agree that makes sense.

Do you agree that there should be normative requirements to match (at =
least) the PRID?

Ben.

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From: Christer Holmberg 
To: Ben Campbell 
CC: "draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push.all@ietf.org" , "sipcore@ietf.org" , "sipcore-chairs@ietf.org" 
Thread-Topic: [sipcore] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-11 - Other issues
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Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2018 21:02:20 +0000
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Subject: Re: [sipcore] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-11 - Other issues
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From: Christer Holmberg 
To: Ben Campbell 
CC: "draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push.all@ietf.org" , Robert Sparks , "sipcore@ietf.org" , "sipcore-chairs@ietf.org" 
Thread-Topic: [sipcore] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-11 - Major issues
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In-Reply-To: 
Cc: "draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push.all@ietf.org" ,  Robert Sparks , "sipcore@ietf.org" , "sipcore-chairs@ietf.org" 
To: Christer Holmberg 
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Subject: Re: [sipcore] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-11 - Major issues
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> On Aug 24, 2018, at 4:05 PM, Christer Holmberg =
 wrote:
>=20
> Hi,
>=20
>>>>>>>>>> 3. The mechanism seems to assume a single contact binding
>>>>>>>>>> exists at any one time, and that any given REGISTER request
>>>>>>>>>> relates to that binding. How is this expected to work if
>>>>>>>>>> multiple bindings exist at the same time, perhaps with =
different expiration times?
>>>>>>>>>> What if the user has multiple clients that are creating
>>>>>>>>>> bindings, some supporting this mechanism and others not =
supporting it?
>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>> Robert suggested the following modified paragraph in section
>>>>>>>>> 5.3.2 to cover that:
>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>> "In case of a 2xx response to the REGISTER request, once the
>>>>>>>>> proxy has forwarded  the REGISTER response towards the UA, if
>>>>>>>>> one of the contacts in the REGISTER  response matches the
>>>>>>>>> Request-URI of the SIP request to be forwarded, and if that
>>>>>>>>> contact has not expired, the proxy can forward the SIP request
>>>>>>>>> towards the UA, using normal SIP procedures. If none of the
>>>>>>>>> contacts of the most recent REGISTER 2xx response and
>>>>>>>>> Request-URI do not match, the proxy MUST reject the SIP =
request
>>>>>>>>> with a 404 (Not Found) response.=C2=B2
>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>> That's better, but I don't think it=C2=B9s enough. The draft =
needs to
>>>>>>>> explicitly discuss the implications of multiple clients, and
>>>>>>>> multiple contacts per client.
>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>> For example, what happens if I have multiple clients, all using
>>>>>>>> the push service? What if not all are using the push service?
>>>>>>>> What if the proxy is in path for all of them? What if it is =
only in the path for some of them?
>>>>>>>> Keep in mind that a REGISTER _response_ includes all current
>>>>>>>> bindings, including bindings that may not belong to the UA that
>>>>>>>> sent the REGISTER in response to the push notification.
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> Even if a client has registered multiple contacts, the inbound =
SIP
>>>>>>> request will only contain one of the contacts in the R-URI. How
>>>>>>> the "home proxy" decides which contact to place in the R-URI is
>>>>>>> outside the scope of the document.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> So I was thinking in terms of the following scenario:
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> Imagine I have client A and client B that I use for the same =
service.
>>>>>> The push-proxy is on the registration path for both of them. The
>>>>>> push proxy receives an inbound INVITE that has been targeted to =
client A. Further assume that client A has lost it=E2=80=99s network =
connection.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> The push requests a push notification to client A. At some point
>>>>>> before the proxy decides to fail the transaction, client B sends =
a
>>>>>> register request. The _response_ to that request will contain the
>>>>>> contacts for both A and B. I _think_ that will cause the push =
proxy
>>>>>> to forward the INVITE towards A, which will fail.  (Maybe =
that=E2=80=99s okay, as it is pretty much the same as what would happen =
without push).
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Correct. The contact of B will not match the R-URI of the inbound =
INVITE.
>>>>>=20
>>>>>> But as a variation, imagine the home proxy parallel forked the
>>>>>> INVITE to both A and B. The push proxy requests notifications to =
both clients. Only B sends a REGISTER.
>>>>>> How does the push-proxy know which (forked) INVITE to forward? =
Does it forward both?
>>>>>=20
>>>>> The INVITEs will have different R-URIs, so they will be handled
>>>>> separately from each other. If only B sends a REGISTER, the INVITE
>>>>> addressed to B will be forwarded (assuming the contact of the =
REGISTER matches the R-URI of the INVITE). The INVITE addressed to A =
will fail.
>>>>=20
>>>> My confusion was around how the push-proxy knows which one of the
>>>> INVITEs the REGISTER matches up with. I had read things to say that
>>>> this was determined by matching one of the contacts in the REGISTER =
_response_. Since the REGISTER response would contain
>>>> both contacts, it would match both INVITEs.
>>>>=20
>>>> But on re-reading, I was reminded of this paragraph in =C2=A75.3.2:
>>>>=20
>>>> " As both the SIP request to be forwarded towards the UA, and the
>>>> binding refresh REGISTER request triggered by the push notification
>>>> request, will convey pn- SIP URI parameters associated with the SIP
>>>> registration, those can be used to match the SIP request with the
>>>> binding refresh REGISTER request (even if the most recent contact =
and
>>>> the Request-URI of the SIP request do not match).=E2=80=9D
>>>>=20
>>>> Assuming multiple clients for the same user still have different
>>>> PRIDs , I guess that makes sense. But I think this needs more =
detail and a stronger (probably normative statement).
>>>> In particular, since much of the section talks about matching
>>>> contacts in responses, this match needs to happen against the
>>>> REGISTER _request_, right? Since the PRID is a URI parameter, would
>>>> it make sense to say that the REGISTER contact URI and the inbound =
request R-URI MUST both contain the same push-related parameters?
>>>=20
>>> Ok, so the matching is done against the REGISTER request, but unless =
the proxy is able to authenticate the sender of the REGISTER
>>> it still needs to wait for the REGISTER response before it forwards =
the SIP request.
>>=20
>> I agree that makes sense.
>>=20
>> Do you agree that there should be normative requirements to match (at =
least) the PRID?
>=20
> The currently assumption is that the whole URI, including the PRID, =
must match.

But we are talking about more than just the SIP URI matching rules from =
3261, right? (Where a URI without the push parameters will match one =
that has them)

>=20
> (Note that when I talk about 'contact' I refer to the URI that is =
included in the REGITER/Contact and INVITE/R-URI).
>=20

Sure.

> Regards,
>=20
> Christer
>=20


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Thread-Topic: [sipcore] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-11 - Major issues
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Subject: Re: [sipcore] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-11 - Major issues
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From: Christer Holmberg 
To: "draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push.all@ietf.org" , "sipcore@ietf.org" , "sipcore-chairs@ietf.org" , "Ben Campbell" 
Thread-Topic: SIP Push: Pull Request based on Ben's AD review
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Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2018 14:18:57 +0000
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Archived-At: 
Subject: [sipcore] SIP Push: Pull Request based on Ben's AD review
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--_000_ad6985abe6734aea9ce20ca80ee404a8ericssoncom_
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Hi,

Based on Ben's AD review, I have created a pull request.

https://github.com/cdh4u/draft-sip-push/pull/20

The following clarifications/modifications have been done:


-          s/awake/wake

-          Note that SIP UA vapid specific procedures are outside the scope=
 of the document

-          Note that proxy needs to be between UA and home proxy in order t=
o be able to match the R-URI of SIP requests with a binding contact

-          Clarification that R-URI matching is done against the contact in=
 REGISTER request (but that the contact still need to be present in the REG=
ISTER response)

-          Clarification that if a SIP UA has multiple bindings associated =
with a push notification subscription, it needs to send a binding refresh R=
EGISTER for each of them when receiving a push notification

-          Clarification that the typical value of 2 seconds might be impac=
ted by PNS- and network characteristics.

-          Modification of requirement to secure the SIP signalling

The following issues are yet not addressed in the PR:


-          The 556 response code has not been removed

-          The IANA policy is still Expert Review

The reason is because I still wait for some input from Ben in the e-mail th=
read.

In addition, I have not yet done any generic clean up/clarification.

Ben, please let me know if there is something I have forgotten :)

Regards,

Christer

--_000_ad6985abe6734aea9ce20ca80ee404a8ericssoncom_
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Hi,


 


Based on Ben’s AD review, I have created a pul=
l request.


 


https://github.com/cdh4u/draft-sip-push/pull/20


 


The following clarifications/modifications have been=
 done:


 


-     &=
nbsp;   
s/awake/wake


-     &=
nbsp;   
Note that SIP UA vapid specific procedures are outs=
ide the scope of the document


-     &=
nbsp;   
Note that proxy needs to be between UA and home pro=
xy in order to be able to match the R-URI of SIP requests with a binding co=
ntact


-     &=
nbsp;   
Clarification that R-URI matching is done against t=
he contact in REGISTER request (but that the contact still need to be prese=
nt in the REGISTER response)


-     &=
nbsp;   
Clarification that if a SIP UA has multiple binding=
s associated with a push notification subscription, it needs to send a bind=
ing refresh REGISTER for each of them when receiving a push notification


-     &=
nbsp;   
Clarification that the typical value of 2 seconds m=
ight be impacted by PNS- and network characteristics.


-     &=
nbsp;   
Modification of requirement to secure the SIP signa=
lling


 


The following issues are yet not addressed in the PR=
:


 


-     &=
nbsp;   
The 556 response code has not been removed


-     &=
nbsp;   
The IANA policy is still Expert Review

 


The reason is because I still wait for some input fr=
om Ben in the e-mail thread.


 


In addition, I have not yet done any generic clean u=
p/clarification.


 


Ben, please let me know if there is something I have=
 forgotten :)


 


Regards,


 


Christer






--_000_ad6985abe6734aea9ce20ca80ee404a8ericssoncom_--


From nobody Sun Aug 26 14:06:14 2018
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Subject: Re: [sipcore] draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-authn-02 - consider splitting
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>>>     After some thoughts about how the various sections of draft are
>>>     intended to be used, I think you should consider splitting it to two
>>>     drafts.

I think splitting the draft would be useful.  As someone who knows
little about OAuth, I find the current draft difficult to comprehend.  I
think it would be easier to understand the draft (and critique it and
improve it) if the two mechanisms were described independently.  And I
think the many other people in the SIP community who know little about
OAuth would benefit in the same way.

Dale


From nobody Mon Aug 27 07:49:47 2018
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Subject: [sipcore] I-D Action: draft-ietf-sipcore-originating-cdiv-parameter-03.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Session Initiation Protocol Core WG of the IETF.

        Title           : A P-Served-User Header Field Parameter for Originating CDIV session case in Session Initiation Protocol (SIP)
        Author          : Marianne Mohali
	Filename        : draft-ietf-sipcore-originating-cdiv-parameter-03.txt
	Pages           : 14
	Date            : 2018-08-27

Abstract:
   The P-Served-User header field is used to convey the identity of the
   served user and the session case that applies to this particular
   communication session and application invocation.  This document
   updates RFC5502 by defining a new P-Served-User header field
   parameter, "orig-cdiv".  The parameter conveys the session case used
   by a proxy when handling an originating session after Call Diversion
   (CDIV) services have been invoked for the served user.  This document
   also fixes the ABNF in RFC 5502 and provides more guidance for using
   the P-Served-User header field in IP networks.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sipcore-originating-cdiv-parameter/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sipcore-originating-cdiv-parameter-03
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sipcore-originating-cdiv-parameter-03

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-sipcore-originating-cdiv-parameter-03


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


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From: Christer Holmberg 
To: "draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push.all@ietf.org" , "sipcore@ietf.org" , "sipcore-chairs@ietf.org" , "Ben Campbell" 
Thread-Topic: SIP Push: Pull Request based on Ben's AD review
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Archived-At: 
Subject: Re: [sipcore] SIP Push: Pull Request based on Ben's AD review
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Hi,

I have updated the pull request. Based on Ben's review, I did the following=
 changes:


-          IANA policy is now "Specification Required"

-          Usage of 556 response code is optional (480 can be used instead)=
.

Regards,

Christer

From: Christer Holmberg [mailto:christer.holmberg@ericsson.com]
Sent: 26 August 2018 17:19
To: draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push.all@ietf.org; sipcore@ietf.org; sipcore-cha=
irs@ietf.org; Ben Campbell 
Subject: SIP Push: Pull Request based on Ben's AD review

Hi,

Based on Ben's AD review, I have created a pull request.

https://github.com/cdh4u/draft-sip-push/pull/20

The following clarifications/modifications have been done:


-          s/awake/wake

-          Note that SIP UA vapid specific procedures are outside the scope=
 of the document

-          Note that proxy needs to be between UA and home proxy in order t=
o be able to match the R-URI of SIP requests with a binding contact

-          Clarification that R-URI matching is done against the contact in=
 REGISTER request (but that the contact still need to be present in the REG=
ISTER response)

-          Clarification that if a SIP UA has multiple bindings associated =
with a push notification subscription, it needs to send a binding refresh R=
EGISTER for each of them when receiving a push notification

-          Clarification that the typical value of 2 seconds might be impac=
ted by PNS- and network characteristics.

-          Modification of requirement to secure the SIP signalling

The following issues are yet not addressed in the PR:


-          The 556 response code has not been removed

-          The IANA policy is still Expert Review

The reason is because I still wait for some input from Ben in the e-mail th=
read.

In addition, I have not yet done any generic clean up/clarification.

Ben, please let me know if there is something I have forgotten :)

Regards,

Christer

--_000_1a0defaa1e824376a0daeeab68f258e6ericssoncom_
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable











Hi,<=
/p>

 


I have updated the pul=
l request. Based on Ben’s review, I did the following changes:


 


-&n=
bsp;        
IANA policy is=
 now “Specification Required”


-&n=
bsp;        
Usage of 556 r=
esponse code is optional (480 can be used instead).


 


Regards,


 


Christer


 






From: Christer Holmberg [mailto:christer.holmberg@ericsson.com]


Sent: 26 August 2018 17:19

To: draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push.all@ietf.org; sipcore@ietf.org; sipc=
ore-chairs@ietf.org; Ben Campbell <ben@nostrum.com>

Subject: SIP Push: Pull Request based on Ben's AD review<=
/span>






 


Hi,


 


Based on Ben’s AD review, I have created a pul=
l request.


 


https://github.com/cdh4u/draft-sip-push/pull/20


 


The following clarifications/modifications have been=
 done:


 


-     &=
nbsp;   
s/awake/wake


-     &=
nbsp;   
Note that SIP UA vapid specific procedures are outs=
ide the scope of the document


-     &=
nbsp;   
Note that proxy needs to be between UA and home pro=
xy in order to be able to match the R-URI of SIP requests with a binding co=
ntact


-     &=
nbsp;   
Clarification that R-URI matching is done against t=
he contact in REGISTER request (but that the contact still need to be prese=
nt in the REGISTER response)


-     &=
nbsp;   
Clarification that if a SIP UA has multiple binding=
s associated with a push notification subscription, it needs to send a bind=
ing refresh REGISTER for each of them when receiving a push notification


-     &=
nbsp;   
Clarification that the typical value of 2 seconds m=
ight be impacted by PNS- and network characteristics.


-     &=
nbsp;   
Modification of requirement to secure the SIP signa=
lling


 


The following issues are yet not addressed in the PR=
:


 


-     &=
nbsp;   
The 556 response code has not been removed


-     &=
nbsp;   
The IANA policy is still Expert Review

 


The reason is because I still wait for some input fr=
om Ben in the e-mail thread.


 


In addition, I have not yet done any generic clean u=
p/clarification.


 


Ben, please let me know if there is something I have=
 forgotten :)


 


Regards,


 


Christer






--_000_1a0defaa1e824376a0daeeab68f258e6ericssoncom_--


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To: "sipcore@ietf.org" 
Thread-Topic: New version (-03) of draft-ietf-sipcore-originating-cdiv-parameter
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Subject: [sipcore] New version (-03) of draft-ietf-sipcore-originating-cdiv-parameter
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Hi all,

I've submitted a new version of the draft after Jean's review.

Main changes between -02 and -03  are:
-Addition of a disclaimer for using text from RFC5502
-Addition of a Conventions and Terminology section
-Addition of clarification provided by RFC8217
-Addition of comments to the call flows to help reading
-Rewording of some sentences for clarification
-Editorials

The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sipcore-originating-cdiv-parame=
ter/

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-sipcore-originating-cdiv-par=
ameter-03

Best regards,
Marianne

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Cc: "draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push.all@ietf.org" ,  "sipcore@ietf.org" , "sipcore-chairs@ietf.org" 
To: Christer Holmberg 
References: 
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Archived-At: 
Subject: Re: [sipcore] SIP Push: Pull Request based on Ben's AD review
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The pull request (is that a push-pull request :-) ) looks good to me.

I have one remaining question: I recall someone (I think it was Robert) =
asked about inbound mid-dialog requests, in particular, NOTIFY. Was that =
question resolved? I can imagine a client going to sleep during a =
long-lived dialog.

Thanks!

Ben.

> On Aug 26, 2018, at 9:18 AM, Christer Holmberg =
 wrote:
>=20
> Hi,
>=20
> Based on Ben=E2=80=99s AD review, I have created a pull request.
>=20
> https://github.com/cdh4u/draft-sip-push/pull/20
>=20
> The following clarifications/modifications have been done:
>=20
> -          s/awake/wake
> -          Note that SIP UA vapid specific procedures are outside the =
scope of the document
> -          Note that proxy needs to be between UA and home proxy in =
order to be able to match the R-URI of SIP requests with a binding =
contact
> -          Clarification that R-URI matching is done against the =
contact in REGISTER request (but that the contact still need to be =
present in the REGISTER response)
> -          Clarification that if a SIP UA has multiple bindings =
associated with a push notification subscription, it needs to send a =
binding refresh REGISTER for each of them when receiving a push =
notification
> -          Clarification that the typical value of 2 seconds might be =
impacted by PNS- and network characteristics.
> -          Modification of requirement to secure the SIP signalling
>=20
> The following issues are yet not addressed in the PR:
>=20
> -          The 556 response code has not been removed
> -          The IANA policy is still Expert Review
>=20
> The reason is because I still wait for some input from Ben in the =
e-mail thread.
>=20
> In addition, I have not yet done any generic clean up/clarification.
>=20
> Ben, please let me know if there is something I have forgotten :)
>=20
> Regards,
>=20
> Christer


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On 8/27/18 3:33 PM, Ben Campbell wrote:
> The pull request (is that a push-pull request :-) ) looks good to me.
>
> I have one remaining question: I recall someone (I think it was Robert) asked about inbound mid-dialog requests, in particular, NOTIFY. Was that question resolved? I can imagine a client going to sleep during a long-lived dialog.
Yes, but based on your followup question to me offline, there is text 
that needs to change in the document.

Christer - if you read what you currently have written, no mid-dialog 
request is accounted for (and by implication allowed). Ben, at least, 
read it to mean you can't _use_ push on mid-dialog requests. I don't 
think that's what you had in mind.

I made a very quick attempt at an edit that would address this - let me 
know if I'm wrong about your intent.
See 

RjS


>
> Thanks!
>
> Ben.
>
>> On Aug 26, 2018, at 9:18 AM, Christer Holmberg  wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Based on Ben’s AD review, I have created a pull request.
>>
>> https://github.com/cdh4u/draft-sip-push/pull/20
>>
>> The following clarifications/modifications have been done:
>>
>> -          s/awake/wake
>> -          Note that SIP UA vapid specific procedures are outside the scope of the document
>> -          Note that proxy needs to be between UA and home proxy in order to be able to match the R-URI of SIP requests with a binding contact
>> -          Clarification that R-URI matching is done against the contact in REGISTER request (but that the contact still need to be present in the REGISTER response)
>> -          Clarification that if a SIP UA has multiple bindings associated with a push notification subscription, it needs to send a binding refresh REGISTER for each of them when receiving a push notification
>> -          Clarification that the typical value of 2 seconds might be impacted by PNS- and network characteristics.
>> -          Modification of requirement to secure the SIP signalling
>>
>> The following issues are yet not addressed in the PR:
>>
>> -          The 556 response code has not been removed
>> -          The IANA policy is still Expert Review
>>
>> The reason is because I still wait for some input from Ben in the e-mail thread.
>>
>> In addition, I have not yet done any generic clean up/clarification.
>>
>> Ben, please let me know if there is something I have forgotten :)
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Christer
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sipcore mailing list
> sipcore@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore


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On 8/27/18 3:33 PM, Ben Campbell wrote:

    

    

      
The pull request (is that a push-pull request :-) ) looks good to me.

I have one remaining question: I recall someone (I think it was Robert) asked about inbound mid-dialog requests, in particular, NOTIFY. Was that question resolved? I can imagine a client going to sleep during a long-lived dialog.

    

    Yes, but based on your followup question to me offline, there is
    text that needs to change in the document.

    

    Christer - if you read what you currently have written, no
    mid-dialog request is accounted for (and by implication allowed).
    Ben, at least, read it to mean you can't _use_ push on mid-dialog
    requests. I don't think that's what you had in mind. 

    

    I made a very quick attempt at an edit that would address this - let
    me know if I'm wrong about your intent.

    See <https://github.com/cdh4u/draft-sip-push/pull/21>

    

    RjS

    

    

    

      

Thanks!

Ben.



      

        
On Aug 26, 2018, at 9:18 AM, Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:

Hi,

Based on Ben’s AD review, I have created a pull request.

https://github.com/cdh4u/draft-sip-push/pull/20

The following clarifications/modifications have been done:

-          s/awake/wake
-          Note that SIP UA vapid specific procedures are outside the scope of the document
-          Note that proxy needs to be between UA and home proxy in order to be able to match the R-URI of SIP requests with a binding contact
-          Clarification that R-URI matching is done against the contact in REGISTER request (but that the contact still need to be present in the REGISTER response)
-          Clarification that if a SIP UA has multiple bindings associated with a push notification subscription, it needs to send a binding refresh REGISTER for each of them when receiving a push notification
-          Clarification that the typical value of 2 seconds might be impacted by PNS- and network characteristics.
-          Modification of requirement to secure the SIP signalling

The following issues are yet not addressed in the PR:

-          The 556 response code has not been removed
-          The IANA policy is still Expert Review

The reason is because I still wait for some input from Ben in the e-mail thread.

In addition, I have not yet done any generic clean up/clarification.

Ben, please let me know if there is something I have forgotten :)

Regards,

Christer


      

      

      

      

      

      
_______________________________________________
sipcore mailing list
sipcore@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore


    

    

  


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To: Robert Sparks 
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> On Aug 27, 2018, at 4:57 PM, Robert Sparks  =
wrote:
>=20
>=20
>=20
> On 8/27/18 3:33 PM, Ben Campbell wrote:
>> The pull request (is that a push-pull request :-) ) looks good to me.
>>=20
>> I have one remaining question: I recall someone (I think it was =
Robert) asked about inbound mid-dialog requests, in particular, NOTIFY. =
Was that question resolved? I can imagine a client going to sleep during =
a long-lived dialog.
>>=20
> Yes, but based on your followup question to me offline, there is text =
that needs to change in the document.
>=20
> Christer - if you read what you currently have written, no mid-dialog =
request is accounted for (and by implication allowed). Ben, at least, =
read it to mean you can't _use_ push on mid-dialog requests. I don't =
think that's what you had in mind.
>=20

To be clear, I didn't necessarily read it as _forbidding_  sending a =
push notification on a mid-dialog request. But it does not specify that =
you can, either.

Ben.

> I made a very quick attempt at an edit that would address this - let =
me know if I'm wrong about your intent.
> See 
>=20
> RjS
>=20
>=20
>>=20
>> Thanks!
>>=20
>> Ben.
>>=20
>>=20
>>> On Aug 26, 2018, at 9:18 AM, Christer Holmberg =

>>>  wrote:
>>>=20
>>> Hi,
>>>=20
>>> Based on Ben=E2=80=99s AD review, I have created a pull request.
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> https://github.com/cdh4u/draft-sip-push/pull/20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> The following clarifications/modifications have been done:
>>>=20
>>> -          s/awake/wake
>>> -          Note that SIP UA vapid specific procedures are outside =
the scope of the document
>>> -          Note that proxy needs to be between UA and home proxy in =
order to be able to match the R-URI of SIP requests with a binding =
contact
>>> -          Clarification that R-URI matching is done against the =
contact in REGISTER request (but that the contact still need to be =
present in the REGISTER response)
>>> -          Clarification that if a SIP UA has multiple bindings =
associated with a push notification subscription, it needs to send a =
binding refresh REGISTER for each of them when receiving a push =
notification
>>> -          Clarification that the typical value of 2 seconds might =
be impacted by PNS- and network characteristics.
>>> -          Modification of requirement to secure the SIP signalling
>>>=20
>>> The following issues are yet not addressed in the PR:
>>>=20
>>> -          The 556 response code has not been removed
>>> -          The IANA policy is still Expert Review
>>>=20
>>> The reason is because I still wait for some input from Ben in the =
e-mail thread.
>>>=20
>>> In addition, I have not yet done any generic clean up/clarification.
>>>=20
>>> Ben, please let me know if there is something I have forgotten :)
>>>=20
>>> Regards,
>>>=20
>>> Christer
>>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> sipcore mailing list
>>=20
>> sipcore@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> sipcore mailing list
> sipcore@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore


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From: Christer Holmberg 
To: Ben Campbell , Robert Sparks 
CC: "sipcore@ietf.org" 
Thread-Topic: SIP Push with SIP notifications [was: SIP Push: Pull Request based on Ben's AD review]
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Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2018 12:12:58 -0500
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To: Christer Holmberg 
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Subject: Re: [sipcore] SIP Push with SIP notifications [was: SIP Push: Pull Request based on Ben's AD review]
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> On Aug 28, 2018, at 11:58 AM, Christer Holmberg =
 wrote:
>=20
> Hi,
>=20
> I have changed the subject, because after having discussions with some =
people I have realized that this is actually a larger issue.
>=20
> First, assuming the SIP UA has gone to sleep (and needs to be awaken) =
since it sent SUBSCRIBE, NOTIFY does *not* currently work with SIP Push.
>=20
> The reason is that the contact of the SUBSCRIBE does not contain the =
pn- parameters. The draft forbids that, due to privacy reasons. So, the =
NOTIFY will not contain the pn- parameters either, and the proxy will =
not be able to request a push notification.
>=20
> We could of course change that, and allow the pn- parameters in the =
SUBSCRIBE, but then we would have the privacy issues.

Can you describe the privacy issue? That is, what is the privacy issue =
with the PRID that doesn=E2=80=99t already exist in the remote contact? =
Would someone who got the PRID be able to insert push notifications? =
What is the typical lifetime of a PRID?

>=20
> One solution that has been discussed is that the proxy provides some =
kind of "registration identifier" to the SIP UA during registration - an =
arbitrary value without any user-sensitive informtaion that the proxy =
can map to a registration. The SIP UA can then include it in the contact =
of the SUBSCRIBE. Then, when the proxy receives the NOTIFY, it can map =
the identifier to the registration (and the associated pn- parameters), =
and request a push notification.
>=20
> Second, having said that, when SIP NOTIFY have been discussed with =
operators etc, there doesn't seem to be an interest in using SIP =
notifications with SIP push notifications to begin with: using a push =
notification in order to receive a SIP notification is considered a =
little strange.
>=20
> Instead, people only want to use push notifications, and have been =
talking about some kind of "interworking" between SIP notifications and =
push notifications, since they do think that push UAs and non-push UAs =
should be able to use the same notification service. Perhaps that is =
something we should look into - in a separate draft?
>=20
> Regards,
>=20
> Christer
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: sipcore [mailto:sipcore-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ben =
Campbell
> Sent: 28 August 2018 01:05
> To: Robert Sparks 
> Cc: sipcore@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [sipcore] SIP Push: Pull Request based on Ben's AD review
>=20
>=20
>=20
>> On Aug 27, 2018, at 4:57 PM, Robert Sparks  =
wrote:
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> On 8/27/18 3:33 PM, Ben Campbell wrote:
>>> The pull request (is that a push-pull request :-) ) looks good to =
me.
>>>=20
>>> I have one remaining question: I recall someone (I think it was =
Robert) asked about inbound mid-dialog requests, in particular, NOTIFY. =
Was that question resolved? I can imagine a client going to sleep during =
a long-lived dialog.
>>>=20
>> Yes, but based on your followup question to me offline, there is text =
that needs to change in the document.
>>=20
>> Christer - if you read what you currently have written, no mid-dialog =
request is accounted for (and by implication allowed). Ben, at least, =
read it to mean you can't _use_ push on mid-dialog requests. I don't =
think that's what you had in mind.
>>=20
>=20
> To be clear, I didn't necessarily read it as _forbidding_  sending a =
push notification on a mid-dialog request. But it does not specify that =
you can, either.
>=20
> Ben.
>=20
>> I made a very quick attempt at an edit that would address this - let =
me know if I'm wrong about your intent.
>> See 
>>=20
>> RjS
>>=20
>>=20
>>>=20
>>> Thanks!
>>>=20
>>> Ben.
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>> On Aug 26, 2018, at 9:18 AM, Christer Holmberg =

>>>> wrote:
>>>>=20
>>>> Hi,
>>>>=20
>>>> Based on Ben=E2=80=99s AD review, I have created a pull request.
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> https://github.com/cdh4u/draft-sip-push/pull/20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> The following clarifications/modifications have been done:
>>>>=20
>>>> -          s/awake/wake
>>>> -          Note that SIP UA vapid specific procedures are outside =
the scope of the document
>>>> -          Note that proxy needs to be between UA and home proxy in =
order to be able to match the R-URI of SIP requests with a binding =
contact
>>>> -          Clarification that R-URI matching is done against the =
contact in REGISTER request (but that the contact still need to be =
present in the REGISTER response)
>>>> -          Clarification that if a SIP UA has multiple bindings =
associated with a push notification subscription, it needs to send a =
binding refresh REGISTER for each of them when receiving a push =
notification
>>>> -          Clarification that the typical value of 2 seconds might =
be impacted by PNS- and network characteristics.
>>>> -          Modification of requirement to secure the SIP signalling
>>>>=20
>>>> The following issues are yet not addressed in the PR:
>>>>=20
>>>> -          The 556 response code has not been removed
>>>> -          The IANA policy is still Expert Review
>>>>=20
>>>> The reason is because I still wait for some input from Ben in the =
e-mail thread.
>>>>=20
>>>> In addition, I have not yet done any generic clean =
up/clarification.
>>>>=20
>>>> Ben, please let me know if there is something I have forgotten :)
>>>>=20
>>>> Regards,
>>>>=20
>>>> Christer
>>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> sipcore mailing list
>>>=20
>>> sipcore@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> sipcore mailing list
>> sipcore@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore
>=20


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From: Christer Holmberg 
To: Ben Campbell 
CC: Robert Sparks , "sipcore@ietf.org" 
Thread-Topic: SIP Push with SIP notifications [was: SIP Push: Pull Request based on Ben's AD review]
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From: Christer Holmberg 
To: Robert Sparks , "sipcore@ietf.org" 
Thread-Topic: [sipcore] SIP Push: Pull Request based on Ben's AD review
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Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2018 17:47:40 +0000
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In-Reply-To: 
References: 
From: Roman Shpount 
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2018 15:47:15 -0400
X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: 
Message-ID: 
To: Christer Holmberg 
Cc: Ben Campbell , Robert Sparks ,  "sipcore@ietf.org" 
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000e807c80574841b51"
Archived-At: 
Subject: Re: [sipcore] SIP Push with SIP notifications [was: SIP Push: Pull Request based on Ben's AD review]
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--000000000000e807c80574841b51
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

Hi,

On Tue, Aug 28, 2018 at 12:58 PM, Christer Holmberg <
christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:

> First, assuming the SIP UA has gone to sleep (and needs to be awaken)
> since it sent SUBSCRIBE, NOTIFY does *not* currently work with SIP Push.
>
> The reason is that the contact of the SUBSCRIBE does not contain the pn-
> parameters. The draft forbids that, due to privacy reasons. So, the NOTIFY
> will not contain the pn- parameters either, and the proxy will not be able
> to request a push notification.
>
> We could of course change that, and allow the pn- parameters in the
> SUBSCRIBE, but then we would have the privacy issues.
>
> One solution that has been discussed is that the proxy provides some kind
> of "registration identifier" to the SIP UA during registration - an
> arbitrary value without any user-sensitive informtaion that the proxy can
> map to a registration. The SIP UA can then include it in the contact of the
> SUBSCRIBE. Then, when the proxy receives the NOTIFY, it can map the
> identifier to the registration (and the associated pn- parameters), and
> request a push notification.
>

Are you re-inventing GRUU here? Contact for SUBSCRIBE should be GRUU
obtained from the Register server. Push enabled proxy can encode necessary
information in the GRUU or simply use GRUU to lookup this information.

I do agree that using SIP NOTIFY with Push notifications is a bit
excessive, but generally handling mid-dialog requests for a suspended
dialog can be solved using GRUU and Record-Route/Route headers which will
maintain relationship between the push notification parameters and SIP
messages.

Regards,
______________
Roman Shpount

--000000000000e807c80574841b51
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


Hi,

On Tue, Aug 28, 2018 at 12:58 PM, Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:
First, assuming the SIP UA has gone to sleep (and need=
s to be awaken) since it sent SUBSCRIBE, NOTIFY does *not* currently work w=
ith SIP Push. 



The reason is that the contact of the SUBSCRIBE does not contain the pn- pa=
rameters. The draft forbids that, due to privacy reasons. So, the NOTIFY wi=
ll not contain the pn- parameters either, and the proxy will not be able to=
 request a push notification.



We could of course change that, and allow the pn- parameters in the SUBSCRI=
BE, but then we would have the privacy issues.



One solution that has been discussed is that the proxy provides some kind o=
f "registration identifier" to the SIP UA during registration - a=
n arbitrary value without any user-sensitive informtaion that the proxy can=
 map to a registration. The SIP UA can then include it in the contact of th=
e SUBSCRIBE. Then, when the proxy receives the NOTIFY, it can map the ident=
ifier to the registration (and the associated pn- parameters), and request =
a push notification.

Are you re-inventi=
ng GRUU here? Contact for SUBSCRIBE should be GRUU obtained from the Regist=
er server. Push enabled proxy can encode necessary information in the GRUU =
or simply use GRUU to lookup this information.

I d=
o agree that using SIP NOTIFY with Push notifications is a bit excessive, b=
ut generally handling mid-dialog requests for a suspended dialog can be sol=
ved using GRUU and Record-Route/Route headers which will maintain relations=
hip between the push notification parameters and SIP messages.=C2=A0=C2=A0<=
/div>

Regards,
______________
Roman =
Shpount


--000000000000e807c80574841b51--


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To: sipcore@ietf.org
References:  
From: Paul Kyzivat 
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Archived-At: 
Subject: Re: [sipcore] SIP Push with SIP notifications [was: SIP Push: Pull Request based on Ben's AD review]
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On 8/28/18 3:47 PM, Roman Shpount wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> On Tue, Aug 28, 2018 at 12:58 PM, Christer Holmberg 
> > 
> wrote:
> 
>     First, assuming the SIP UA has gone to sleep (and needs to be
>     awaken) since it sent SUBSCRIBE, NOTIFY does *not* currently work
>     with SIP Push.
> 
>     The reason is that the contact of the SUBSCRIBE does not contain the
>     pn- parameters. The draft forbids that, due to privacy reasons. So,
>     the NOTIFY will not contain the pn- parameters either, and the proxy
>     will not be able to request a push notification.
> 
>     We could of course change that, and allow the pn- parameters in the
>     SUBSCRIBE, but then we would have the privacy issues.
> 
>     One solution that has been discussed is that the proxy provides some
>     kind of "registration identifier" to the SIP UA during registration
>     - an arbitrary value without any user-sensitive informtaion that the
>     proxy can map to a registration. The SIP UA can then include it in
>     the contact of the SUBSCRIBE. Then, when the proxy receives the
>     NOTIFY, it can map the identifier to the registration (and the
>     associated pn- parameters), and request a push notification.
> 
> 
> Are you re-inventing GRUU here? Contact for SUBSCRIBE should be GRUU 
> obtained from the Register server. Push enabled proxy can encode 
> necessary information in the GRUU or simply use GRUU to lookup this 
> information.
> 
> I do agree that using SIP NOTIFY with Push notifications is a bit 
> excessive, but generally handling mid-dialog requests for a suspended 
> dialog can be solved using GRUU and Record-Route/Route headers which 
> will maintain relationship between the push notification parameters and 
> SIP messages.

First, please keep in mind that in general you can't assume that the 
home proxy for a UA is on the path for in-dialog requests. If not, that 
could cause problems for using Push.

OTOH, if the UA is using a registrar-assigned GRUU as its contact for 
the dialog, then that is probably the home proxy or at least is in 
cooperation with the registrar, hence fixing the problem.

	Thanks,
	Paul


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From: Christer Holmberg 
To: Roman Shpount 
CC: Ben Campbell , Robert Sparks , "sipcore@ietf.org" 
Thread-Topic: [sipcore] SIP Push with SIP notifications [was: SIP Push: Pull Request based on Ben's AD review]
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Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2018 18:32:42 -0400
From: Richard Shockey 
To: Christer Holmberg , Roman Shpount 
CC: Ben Campbell , "sipcore@ietf.org" 
Message-ID: 
Thread-Topic: [sipcore] SIP Push with SIP notifications [was: SIP Push: Pull Request based on Ben's AD review]
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OK guys I have a more fundamental question.  What is all of this fuss about=
...really!

What is the use case for PUSH?  I'm totally confused, certainly ignorant.

What are you folks trying to do ..is this some 3GPP thing?  I'm legitimatel=
y confused and befuddled.

=E2=80=94=20
Richard Shockey

Shockey Consulting LLC

Chairman of the Board SIP Forum

www.shockey.us

www.sipforum.org

richardshockey.us

Skype-Linkedin-Facebook =E2=80=93Twitter  rshockey101

PSTN +1 703-593-2683

=20

=EF=BB=BFOn 8/28/18, 4:21 PM, "sipcore on behalf of Christer Holmberg"  wrote:

    Hi,
   =20
    >> First, assuming the SIP UA has gone to sleep (and needs to be awaken=
) since it sent SUBSCRIBE, NOTIFY=20
    >> does *not* currently work with SIP Push.=20
    >>
    >> The reason is that the contact of the SUBSCRIBE does not contain the=
 pn- parameters. The draft forbids=20
    >> that, due to privacy reasons. So, the NOTIFY will not contain the pn=
- parameters either, and the proxy will=20
    >> not be able to request a push notification.
    >>
    >> We could of course change that, and allow the pn- parameters in the =
SUBSCRIBE, but then we would=20
    >> have the privacy issues.
    >>
    >> One solution that has been discussed is that the proxy provides some=
 kind of "registration identifier" to=20
    >> the SIP UA during registration - an arbitrary value without any user=
-sensitive information that the proxy can=20
    >> map to a registration. The SIP UA can then include it in the contact=
 of the SUBSCRIBE. Then, when the proxy=20
    >> receives the NOTIFY, it can map the identifier to the registration (=
and the associated pn- parameters), and=20
    >> request a push notification.
    >
    > Are you re-inventing GRUU here?=20
   =20
    No. I presented the option on a functional level. Didn't want to go int=
o the protocol details :)
   =20
    Regards,
   =20
    Christer
    _______________________________________________
    sipcore mailing list
    sipcore@ietf.org
    https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore
   =20



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From: Roman Shpount 
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2018 20:50:39 -0400
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To: Richard Shockey 
Cc: Christer Holmberg , Ben Campbell , "sipcore@ietf.org" 
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Archived-At: 
Subject: Re: [sipcore] SIP Push with SIP notifications [was: SIP Push: Pull Request based on Ben's AD review]
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Hi Richard,

On certain fruit themed mobile devices, application cannot wake up on timer
or on network packet. The only way to wake up the application is to send a
push notification using proprietary vendor-approved push protocol. VoIP
clients on such devices typically register for push notifications when
doing SIP registration. When call needs to be placed to such device, push
notification is sent first to wake up the device. When device wakes up, it
re-registers which triggers SIP INVITE being sent to the device over the
connection established using REGISTER. Nothing to do with 3GPP. There are
multiple hacked together implementations of this on the market. Christer
decided that a draft describing how to implement such signaling scenario is
needed.

If you want, I can get on the call and describe in more details.

Regards,

_____________
Roman Shpount

On Tue, Aug 28, 2018 at 6:32 PM, Richard Shockey  wrote=
:

>
> OK guys I have a more fundamental question.  What is all of this fuss
> about...really!
>
> What is the use case for PUSH?  I'm totally confused, certainly ignorant.
>
> What are you folks trying to do ..is this some 3GPP thing?  I'm
> legitimately confused and befuddled.
>
> =E2=80=94
> Richard Shockey
>
> Shockey Consulting LLC
>
> Chairman of the Board SIP Forum
>
> www.shockey.us
>
> www.sipforum.org
>
> richardshockey.us
>
> Skype-Linkedin-Facebook =E2=80=93Twitter  rshockey101
>
> PSTN +1 703-593-2683
>
>
>
> =EF=BB=BFOn 8/28/18, 4:21 PM, "sipcore on behalf of Christer Holmberg" <
> sipcore-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of christer.holmberg@ericsson.com>
> wrote:
>
>     Hi,
>
>     >> First, assuming the SIP UA has gone to sleep (and needs to be
> awaken) since it sent SUBSCRIBE, NOTIFY
>     >> does *not* currently work with SIP Push.
>     >>
>     >> The reason is that the contact of the SUBSCRIBE does not contain
> the pn- parameters. The draft forbids
>     >> that, due to privacy reasons. So, the NOTIFY will not contain the
> pn- parameters either, and the proxy will
>     >> not be able to request a push notification.
>     >>
>     >> We could of course change that, and allow the pn- parameters in th=
e
> SUBSCRIBE, but then we would
>     >> have the privacy issues.
>     >>
>     >> One solution that has been discussed is that the proxy provides
> some kind of "registration identifier" to
>     >> the SIP UA during registration - an arbitrary value without any
> user-sensitive information that the proxy can
>     >> map to a registration. The SIP UA can then include it in the
> contact of the SUBSCRIBE. Then, when the proxy
>     >> receives the NOTIFY, it can map the identifier to the registration
> (and the associated pn- parameters), and
>     >> request a push notification.
>     >
>     > Are you re-inventing GRUU here?
>
>     No. I presented the option on a functional level. Didn't want to go
> into the protocol details :)
>
>     Regards,
>
>     Christer
>     _______________________________________________
>     sipcore mailing list
>     sipcore@ietf.org
>     https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore
>
>
>
>

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Hi Richard,

On certain fruit themed mob=
ile devices, application cannot wake up on timer or on network packet. The =
only way to wake up the application is to send a push notification using pr=
oprietary vendor-approved push protocol. VoIP clients on such devices typic=
ally register for push notifications when doing SIP registration. When call=
 needs to be placed to such device, push notification is sent first to wake=
 up the device. When device wakes up, it re-registers which triggers SIP IN=
VITE being sent to the device over the connection established using REGISTE=
R. Nothing to do with 3GPP. There are multiple hacked together implementati=
ons of this on the market. Christer decided that a draft describing how to =
implement such signaling scenario is needed.

If yo=
u want, I can get on the call and describe in more details.

<=
/div>
Regards,

=

____=
_________
Roman Shpount


On Tue, Aug 28, 2018 at 6:32 PM, Richard Sho=
ckey <richard@shockey.us> wrote:


OK guys I have a more fundamental question.=C2=A0 What is all of this fuss =
about...really!



What is the use case for PUSH?=C2=A0 I'm totally confused, certainly ig=
norant.



What are you folks trying to do ..is this some 3GPP thing?=C2=A0 I'm le=
gitimately confused and befuddled.



=E2=80=94 

Richard Shockey



Shockey Consulting LLC



Chairman of the Board SIP Forum



www.=
shockey.us



ww=
w.sipforum.org



richard<at>shockey.us



Skype-Linkedin-Facebook =E2=80=93Twitter=C2=A0 rshockey101



PSTN +1 703-593-2683








=EF=BB=BFOn 8/28/18, 4:21 PM, "sipcore on behalf of Christer Holmberg&=
quot; <sipcore-bounces@ietf.=
org on behalf of chri=
ster.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:



=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Hi,



=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >> First, assuming the SIP UA has gone to sleep (and ne=
eds to be awaken) since it sent SUBSCRIBE, NOTIFY 

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >> does *not* currently work with SIP Push. 

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >>

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >> The reason is that the contact of the SUBSCRIBE does=
 not contain the pn- parameters. The draft forbids 

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >> that, due to privacy reasons. So, the NOTIFY will no=
t contain the pn- parameters either, and the proxy will 

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >> not be able to request a push notification.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >>

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >> We could of course change that, and allow the pn- pa=
rameters in the SUBSCRIBE, but then we would 

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >> have the privacy issues.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >>

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >> One solution that has been discussed is that the pro=
xy provides some kind of "registration identifier" to 

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >> the SIP UA during registration - an arbitrary value =
without any user-sensitive information that the proxy can 

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >> map to a registration. The SIP UA can then include i=
t in the contact of the SUBSCRIBE. Then, when the proxy 

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >> receives the NOTIFY, it can map the identifier to th=
e registration (and the associated pn- parameters), and 

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >> request a push notification.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > Are you re-inventing GRUU here? 



=C2=A0 =C2=A0 No. I presented the option on a functional level. Didn't =
want to go into the protocol details :)



=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Regards,



=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Christer


=C2=A0 =C2=A0 _________=
______________________________________

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 sipcore mailing list

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 sipcore@ietf.org

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinf=
o/sipcore











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References:   <40e2b903-3902-ea47-65a6-4674b67162c7@alum.mit.edu>
From: Roman Shpount 
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2018 21:00:36 -0400
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To: Paul Kyzivat 
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Subject: Re: [sipcore] SIP Push with SIP notifications [was: SIP Push: Pull Request based on Ben's AD review]
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On Tue, Aug 28, 2018 at 4:19 PM, Paul Kyzivat  wrote:

> First, please keep in mind that in general you can't assume that the home
> proxy for a UA is on the path for in-dialog requests. If not, that could
> cause problems for using Push.
>
> OTOH, if the UA is using a registrar-assigned GRUU as its contact for the
> dialog, then that is probably the home proxy or at least is in cooperation
> with the registrar, hence fixing the problem.
>

If separate Home Proxy is used, Registrar must support registration path
extension (RFC 3327) or things will break.

In general, if a complete standard compliant solution is needed, we should
have taken RFC 5626 and RFC 5627 and updated it to use push. Christer
thought this would be an overkill and opted for a simpler solution. This
resulted in some scenarios being unsupported or under-specified. Since
current draft covers the use cases Christer is currently interested in,
other scenarios can be covered in other drafts or subsequent versions of
this draft.

Regards,
_____________
Roman Shpount

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On Tue, Aug 28, 2018 at 4:19 PM, Pa=
ul Kyzivat <pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
First, please ke=
ep in mind that in general you can't assume that the home proxy for a U=
A is on the path for in-dialog requests. If not, that could cause problems =
for using Push.



OTOH, if the UA is using a registrar-assigned GRUU as its contact for the d=
ialog, then that is probably the home proxy or at least is in cooperation w=
ith the registrar, hence fixing the problem.

If separate Home Proxy is used, Registrar must support registration p=
ath extension (RFC 3327) or things will break.

In =
general, if a complete standard compliant solution is needed, we should hav=
e taken RFC 5626 and RFC 5627 and updated it to use push. Christer thought =
this would be an overkill and opted for a simpler solution. This resulted i=
n some scenarios being unsupported or under-specified. Since current draft =
covers the use cases Christer is currently interested in, other scenarios c=
an be covered in other drafts or=20


_____________
Roman Shpount



=C2=A0


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From: Christer Holmberg 
To: Roman Shpount , Paul Kyzivat 
CC: SIPCORE 
Thread-Topic: [sipcore] SIP Push with SIP notifications [was: SIP Push: Pull Request based on Ben's AD review]
Thread-Index: AdQ+7XmZpoGJ/lWaSXuSBaMxN3EaWAACa5uAAAEeQAAACdNRAAARoR6A
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Archived-At: 
Subject: Re: [sipcore] SIP Push with SIP notifications [was: SIP Push: Pull Request based on Ben's AD review]
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Hi,


>> First, please keep in mind that in general you can't assume that the
>>home proxy for a UA is on the path for in-dialog requests. If not, that
>>could cause problems for using Push.
>>
>> OTOH, if the UA is using a registrar-assigned GRUU as its contact for
>>the dialog, then that is probably the home proxy or at least is in
>>cooperation with the registrar, hence fixing the problem.
>
> If separate Home Proxy is used, Registrar must support registration path
>extension (RFC 3327) or things will break.
>
> In general, if a complete standard compliant solution is needed, we
>should have taken RFC 5626 and RFC 5627 and updated it to use push.
>Christer thought this would be an overkill and opted for a
> simpler solution. This resulted in some scenarios being unsupported or
>under-specified. Since current draft covers the use cases Christer is
>currently interested in, other scenarios can be covered in other drafts or
> subsequent versions of this draft.

Correct.

Regards,

Christer



=20


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From: Christer Holmberg 
To: Ben Campbell 
CC: "sipcore@ietf.org" 
Thread-Topic: [sipcore] SIP Push with SIP notifications [was: SIP Push: Pull Request based on Ben's AD review] - request push notifications by knowing the PRID?
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Subject: Re: [sipcore] SIP Push with SIP notifications [was: SIP Push: Pull Request based on Ben's AD review] - request push notifications by knowing the PRID?
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Hi,

...

>> Would someone who got the PRID be able to insert push notifications?
>
>I would have to double check that. You obviously need PNS credentials in
>order to request push notifications, but anyone can get those.

I looked into this. At least with Apple Push you can NOT request push
notifications if you get the PRID. In addition you need application
specific credentials, and they are not carried in the SIP signalling (they
are configured in the proxy).

Regards,

Christer



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From: Christer Holmberg 
To: Roman Shpount , Paul Kyzivat 
CC: SIPCORE 
Thread-Topic: [sipcore] SIP Push with SIP notifications [was: SIP Push: Pull Request based on Ben's AD review]
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From: Rifaat Shekh-Yusef 
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2018 11:12:51 -0400
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To: "Dale R. Worley" 
Cc: "A. Jean Mahoney" , SIPCORE 
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Subject: Re: [sipcore] draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-authn-02 - consider splitting
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Thanks Dale!

Anybody objects to this proposal?

Regards,
 Rifaat


On Sun, Aug 26, 2018 at 5:06 PM Dale R. Worley  wrote:

> >>>     After some thoughts about how the various sections of draft are
> >>>     intended to be used, I think you should consider splitting it to
> two
> >>>     drafts.
>
> I think splitting the draft would be useful.  As someone who knows
> little about OAuth, I find the current draft difficult to comprehend.  I
> think it would be easier to understand the draft (and critique it and
> improve it) if the two mechanisms were described independently.  And I
> think the many other people in the SIP community who know little about
> OAuth would benefit in the same way.
>
> Dale
>
> _______________________________________________
> sipcore mailing list
> sipcore@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore
>

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Thanks Dale!

Anybody objects to this proposal=
?

Regards,
=C2=A0Rifaat

On Sun,=
 Aug 26, 2018 at 5:06 PM Dale R. Worley <worley@ariadne.com> wrote:
>>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0After some thoughts about how the var=
ious sections of draft are

>>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0intended to be used, I think you should con=
sider splitting it to two

>>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0drafts.



I think splitting the draft would be useful.=C2=A0 As someone who knows

little about OAuth, I find the current draft difficult to comprehend.=C2=A0=
 I

think it would be easier to understand the draft (and critique it and

improve it) if the two mechanisms were described independently.=C2=A0 And I=


think the many other people in the SIP community who know little about

OAuth would benefit in the same way.



Dale



_______________________________________________

sipcore mailing list

sipcore@ietf.org<=
br>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore




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Archived-At: 
Subject: Re: [sipcore] SIP Push with SIP notifications [was: SIP Push: Pull Request based on Ben's AD review]
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On 8/29/18 9:57 AM, Christer Holmberg wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Maybe I am missing something, but we do the home proxy need to be in the 
> path of mid-dialog requests in order for push to work?
> 
> The draft currently doesn’t define any push-specific procedures for the 
> home proxy.

I haven't been following this closely, but isn't the home proxy the one 
that triggers the push?

At least *something* needs to be on that path to do it. For 
registrations we know the registrar is on the path. But for this 
mid-dialog case there is no guarantee that there is *anything* between 
the the two UAs that have the dialog. (I know the situation is different 
in IMS.)

	Thanks,
	Paul

> Regards,
> 
> Christer
> 
> *From:*sipcore [mailto:sipcore-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Roman 
> Shpount
> *Sent:* 29 August 2018 04:01
> *To:* Paul Kyzivat 
> *Cc:* SIPCORE 
> *Subject:* Re: [sipcore] SIP Push with SIP notifications [was: SIP Push: 
> Pull Request based on Ben's AD review]
> 
> On Tue, Aug 28, 2018 at 4:19 PM, Paul Kyzivat  > wrote:
> 
>     First, please keep in mind that in general you can't assume that the
>     home proxy for a UA is on the path for in-dialog requests. If not,
>     that could cause problems for using Push.
> 
>     OTOH, if the UA is using a registrar-assigned GRUU as its contact
>     for the dialog, then that is probably the home proxy or at least is
>     in cooperation with the registrar, hence fixing the problem.
> 
> If separate Home Proxy is used, Registrar must support registration path 
> extension (RFC 3327) or things will break.
> 
> In general, if a complete standard compliant solution is needed, we 
> should have taken RFC 5626 and RFC 5627 and updated it to use push. 
> Christer thought this would be an overkill and opted for a simpler 
> solution. This resulted in some scenarios being unsupported or 
> under-specified. Since current draft covers the use cases Christer is 
> currently interested in, other scenarios can be covered in other drafts 
> or subsequent versions of this draft.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> _____________
> Roman Shpount
> 
> 


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From: Christer Holmberg 
To: Paul Kyzivat , Roman Shpount 
CC: SIPCORE 
Thread-Topic: [sipcore] SIP Push with SIP notifications [was: SIP Push: Pull Request based on Ben's AD review]
Thread-Index: AdQ+7XmZpoGJ/lWaSXuSBaMxN3EaWAACa5uAAAEeQAAACdNRAAAfSqFw///8LID//9DrEA==
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2018 16:38:46 +0000
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References:   <40e2b903-3902-ea47-65a6-4674b67162c7@alum.mit.edu>  <44144dd2abe446a69820e12af88e60ea@ericsson.com> 
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From: Roman Shpount 
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2018 12:45:34 -0400
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To: Christer Holmberg 
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Subject: Re: [sipcore] SIP Push with SIP notifications [was: SIP Push: Pull Request based on Ben's AD review]
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On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 9:57 AM, Christer Holmberg <
christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:

> Maybe I am missing something, but we do the home proxy need to be in the
> path of mid-dialog requests in order for push to work?
>

Short answer is that if UA is expected to stay awake during the dialog,
home proxy does not need to be on the path of mid-dialog requests. So no
need for call dialogs, but will be needed for SUBSCRIBE notifications, if
supported by this draft (they are not so far). In our case, we had to
implement this for SUBSCRIBE to support voice mail status notifications.

Regards,
_____________
Roman Shpount

--000000000000054ad8057495b0ad
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
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On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 9:57 AM, Ch=
rister Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:











Maybe I am missing something, but we do the =
home proxy need to be in the path of mid-dialog requests in order for push =
to work?

Short answe=
r is that if UA is expected to stay awake during the dialog, home proxy doe=
s not need to be on the path of mid-dialog requests. So no need for call di=
alogs, but will be needed for SUBSCRIBE notifications, if supported by this=
 draft (they are not so far). In our case, we had to implement this for SUB=
SCRIBE to support voice mail status notifications.

Regards,



_____________
Roman Shpount



=C2=A0


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From: Christer Holmberg 
To: Roman Shpount 
CC: Paul Kyzivat , SIPCORE 
Thread-Topic: [sipcore] SIP Push with SIP notifications [was: SIP Push: Pull Request based on Ben's AD review]
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From: Roman Shpount 
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2018 13:41:34 -0400
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On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 1:10 PM, Christer Holmberg <
christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:

> >> Maybe I am missing something, but we do the home proxy need to be in
> the path of mid-dialog requests in order for push to work?
> >
> > Short answer is that if UA is expected to stay awake during the dialog,
> home proxy does not need to be on the path of mid-dialog requests.
>
> Too short answer, because you don't explain WHY the home proxy needs to be
> on the path :)
>

Actually, most of the UA that will require SIP Push are located on NATed
networks. If you are doing server side NAT traversal or sip outbound, SIP
requests should be sent over the same transport/address/port 5-tuple as the
one used to receive REGISTER messages. Because of this, home proxy would
need to stay on request path even for the mid-dialog requests, which is
typically accomplished by home proxy adding Record-Route when SIP dialog is
created. This being said, in some cases (full cone NAT) or UA on public IP,
SIP requests can be sent to UA from any origination address and port, so
that if UA is still awake to receive the message, this message can bypass
the home proxy. However this cannot be relied upon, thus home proxy is
typically left on the request path.

Regards,
_____________
Roman Shpount

--0000000000004726210574967867
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 1:10 PM, Ch=
rister Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:
>> Maybe I am missing something, but we do th=
e home proxy need to be in the path of mid-dialog requests in order for pus=
h to work?

>

> Short answer is that if UA is expected to stay awake during the dialog=
, home proxy does not need to be on the path of mid-dialog requests.



Too short answer, because you don't explain WHY the home proxy n=
eeds to be on the path :)

Actually, mos=
t of the UA that will require SIP Push are located on NATed networks. If yo=
u are doing server side NAT traversal or sip outbound, SIP requests should =
be sent over the same transport/address/port 5-tuple as the one used to rec=
eive REGISTER messages. Because of this, home proxy would need to stay on r=
equest path even for the mid-dialog requests, which is typically accomplish=
ed by home proxy adding Record-Route when SIP dialog is created. This being=
 said, in some cases (full cone NAT) or UA on public IP, SIP requests can b=
e sent to UA from any origination address and port, so that if UA is still =
awake to receive the message, this message can bypass the home proxy. Howev=
er this cannot be relied upon, thus home proxy is typically left on the req=
uest path.

Regards,



_____________
Roman Shpount



=C2=A0


--0000000000004726210574967867--


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From: Christer Holmberg 
To: Roman Shpount 
CC: Paul Kyzivat , SIPCORE 
Thread-Topic: [sipcore] SIP Push with SIP notifications [was: SIP Push: Pull Request based on Ben's AD review]
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Subject: Re: [sipcore] SIP Push with SIP notifications [was: SIP Push: Pull Request based on Ben's AD review]
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From: Roman Shpount 
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2018 14:08:01 -0400
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To: Christer Holmberg 
Cc: Paul Kyzivat , SIPCORE 
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Subject: Re: [sipcore] SIP Push with SIP notifications [was: SIP Push: Pull Request based on Ben's AD review]
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--000000000000d772a6057496d628
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On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 1:49 PM, Christer Holmberg <
christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:

> > Actually, most of the UA that will require SIP Push are located on NATed
> networks. If you are doing server
> > side NAT traversal or sip outbound, SIP requests should be sent over the
> same transport/address/port 5-tuple
> > as the one used to receive REGISTER messages. Because of this, home
> proxy would need to stay on request path
> > even for the mid-dialog requests, which is typically accomplished by
> home proxy adding Record-Route when
> > SIP dialog is created. This being said, in some cases (full cone NAT) or
> UA on public IP, SIP requests can be sent to
> > UA from any origination address and port, so that if UA is still awake
> to receive the message, this message can bypass
> > the home proxy. However this cannot be relied upon, thus home proxy is
> typically left on the request path.
>
> In case of NAT traversal, where the SIP requests needs to use the REGISTER
> 5-tuple, the "edge proxy" (using Outbound terminology) needs to be on the
> path. I still don't understand why the home proxy needs to (unless the home
> proxy is also the edge proxy, of course).
>
> In any case, I would like to know whether there is a SIP push specific
> reason for the home proxy to be on the path.
>
>
In our implementation home and edge proxy where the same so I thought of
them as the same thing. We used Keep-Alive messages from the client to edge
proxy to monitor if connection was active and client was awake. We sent SIP
push notification when registration needed to be refreshed or when message
needed to be sent to the UA and no active connection from the client was
present. This was done for both in-dialog and out-of-dialog requests, so it
worked well for both cases when client was already awake when new dialog
was started or when we had a long dialog during which client went to sleep
(SUBSCRIBE for VM status).

Your implementation is somewhat different, so that if home and edge proxy
are separate, then there is no need for home proxy to stay on the path. The
only downside from push notification point of view, if these two proxies
are separate, there is no way for home proxy to check if client is already
awake and SIP push is needed, but this is not described in your draft
anyway.

Regards,
_____________
Roman Shpount

--000000000000d772a6057496d628
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 1:49 PM, Ch=
rister Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:
> Actually, most of the UA that will require SIP=
 Push are located on NATed networks. If you are doing server 

> side NAT traversal or sip outbound, SIP requests should be sent over t=
he same transport/address/port 5-tuple 

> as the one used to receive REGISTER messages. Because of this, home pr=
oxy would need to stay on request path 

> even for the mid-dialog requests, which is typically accomplished by h=
ome proxy adding Record-Route when 

> SIP dialog is created. This being said, in some cases (full cone NAT) =
or UA on public IP, SIP requests can be sent to 

> UA from any origination address and port, so that if UA is still awake=
 to receive the message, this message can bypass 

> the home proxy. However this cannot be relied upon, thus home proxy is=
 typically left on the request path.



In case of NAT traversal, where the SIP requests needs to use the RE=
GISTER 5-tuple, the "edge proxy" (using Outbound terminology) nee=
ds to be on the path. I still don't understand why the home proxy needs=
 to (unless the home proxy is also the edge proxy, of course).



In any case, I would like to know whether there is a SIP push specific reas=
on for the home proxy to be on the path.


=C2=A0
In our implementation home and edge =
proxy where the same so I thought of them as the same thing. We used Keep-A=
live messages from the client to edge proxy to monitor if connection was ac=
tive and client was awake. We sent SIP push notification when registration =
needed to be refreshed or when message needed to be sent to the UA and no a=
ctive connection from the client was present. This was done for both in-dia=
log and out-of-dialog requests, so it worked well for both cases when clien=
t was already awake when new dialog was started or when we had a long dialo=
g during which client went to sleep (SUBSCRIBE for VM status).
Your implementation is somewhat different, so that if home and=
 edge proxy are separate, then there is no need for home proxy to stay on t=
he path. The only downside from push notification point of view, if these t=
wo proxies are separate, there is no way for home proxy to check if client =
is already awake and SIP push is needed, but this is not described in your =
draft anyway.

Regards,



_____________
Roman Shpount



=C2=A0


--000000000000d772a6057496d628--


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From: Christer Holmberg 
To: Roman Shpount 
CC: Paul Kyzivat , SIPCORE 
Thread-Topic: [sipcore] SIP Push with SIP notifications [was: SIP Push: Pull Request based on Ben's AD review]
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Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2018 18:31:35 +0000
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From nobody Wed Aug 29 11:50:54 2018
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Jean Mahoney has requested publication of draft-ietf-sipcore-originating-cdiv-parameter-03 as Informational on behalf of the SIPCORE working group.

Please verify the document's state at https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sipcore-originating-cdiv-parameter/


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To: marianne.mohali@orange.com, "sipcore@ietf.org" 
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Subject: Re: [sipcore] New version (-03) of draft-ietf-sipcore-originating-cdiv-parameter
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Hi Marianne,

Thanks for the update! I've completed the Doc Shepherd writeup for the 
draft and submitted it to the IESG for publication.

Jean


On 8/27/18 11:40 AM, marianne.mohali@orange.com wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I've submitted a new version of the draft after Jean's review.
> 
> Main changes between -02 and -03  are:
> -Addition of a disclaimer for using text from RFC5502
> -Addition of a Conventions and Terminology section
> -Addition of clarification provided by RFC8217
> -Addition of comments to the call flows to help reading
> -Rewording of some sentences for clarification
> -Editorials
> 
> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sipcore-originating-cdiv-parameter/
> 
> A diff from the previous version is available at:
> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-sipcore-originating-cdiv-parameter-03
> 
> Best regards,
> Marianne
> 
> _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
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Subject: Re: [sipcore] SIP Push with SIP notifications [was: SIP Push: Pull Request based on Ben's AD review]
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--00000000000021c4d9057497a413
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 2:31 PM, Christer Holmberg <
christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:

> We should not talk in implementation terms. We should talk about the "home
> proxy" and "push proxy" as FUNCTIONAL entities:
>
> Home proxy = proxy that re-targets the R-URI, by replacing the AOR with
> the registered contact
> Push proxy = the proxy that requests push notifications
>
> They may, or may not, be implemented together.
>

In this case, one implementation alternative is that push proxy only needs
to be on the path of requests that need to wake up the client.

As far as I can see the following requests can require client to wake up:
1. New dialog creating requests, in cases when UA is expected to stay awake
during the dialog, such as calls
2. Non-dialog requests, such as REFER with replaces during blind transfer
3. Requests in dialog where UA is expected to suspend during the dialog,
such as dialog created by SUBSCRIBE

In-dialog requests that are sent during the dialog when client is expected
to be awake (calls) can bypass the push notification proxy.

Another implementation alternative would be send all requests through push
proxy, which will only issue push notification when request receives 430
(Flow Failed) response from the edge proxy (described in
https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5626#section-11.5).

Regards,
_____________
Roman Shpount

--00000000000021c4d9057497a413
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On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 2:31 PM, Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:
=

We should not talk in implementation terms. We should talk about th=
e "home proxy" and "push proxy" as FUNCTIONAL entities:=




Home proxy =3D proxy that re-targets the R-URI, by replacing the AOR with t=
he registered contact

Push proxy =3D the proxy that requests push notifications 



They may, or may not, be implemented together.

In this case, one implementation alternative is that push proxy onl=
y needs to be on the path of requests that need to wake up the client.

As far as I can see the following requests can require=
 client to wake up:
1. New dialog creating requests, in cases whe=
n UA is expected to stay awake during the dialog, such as calls
2=
. Non-dialog requests, such as REFER with replaces during blind transfer
3. Requests in dialog where UA is expected to suspend during the di=
alog, such as dialog created by SUBSCRIBE=C2=A0

In=
-dialog requests that are sent during the dialog when client is expected to=
 be awake (calls) can bypass the push notification proxy.

Another implementation alternative would be send all requests throu=
gh push proxy, which will only issue push notification when request receive=
s 430 (Flow Failed) response from the edge proxy (described in=C2=A0https://tools.ietf.or=
g/html/rfc5626#section-11.5).

Regards,



_____________
Roman Shpount



=C2=A0


--00000000000021c4d9057497a413--


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From: Christer Holmberg 
To: Roman Shpount 
CC: Paul Kyzivat , SIPCORE 
Thread-Topic: [sipcore] SIP Push with SIP notifications [was: SIP Push: Pull Request based on Ben's AD review]
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Subject: [sipcore] I-D Action: draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-14.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Session Initiation Protocol Core WG of the IETF.

        Title           : Push Notification with the Session Initiation Protocol (SIP)
        Authors         : Christer Holmberg
                          Michael Arnold
	Filename        : draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-14.txt
	Pages           : 27
	Date            : 2018-08-30

Abstract:
   This document describes how a Push Notification Service (PNS) can be
   used to wake suspended Session Initiation Protocol (SIP) User Agents
   (UAs), using push notifications, for the UA to be able to send
   binding refresh REGISTER requests and to receive receive incoming SIP
   requests.  The document defines new SIP URI parameters and new
   feature-capability indicators that can be used in SIP messages to
   indicate support of the mechanism defined in this document, to
   exchange PNS information between the SIP User Agent (UA) and the SIP
   entity that will request push notifications towards the UA, and to
   trigger such push notification requests.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-14
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-14

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-sipcore-sip-push-14


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


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From: Christer Holmberg 
To: "sipcore@ietf.org" , "sipcore-chairs@ietf.org" , Ben Campbell , Robert Sparks 
Thread-Topic: Draft new version: SIP Push-14
Thread-Index: AQHUQDGyI0mgd1l/eUKUuz4SEy2z2Q==
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2018 07:18:50 +0000
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--_000_D7AD770735725christerholmbergericssoncom_
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Hi,

I have merged the pull request created based on Ben=92s AD review, and subm=
itted a new version (-14) of SIP Push.

The new version does NOT contain and changes related to NOTIFY (Robert=92s =
pull request has not been merged). I will write a separate e-mail about tha=
t, and how to move forward.

Regards,

Christer

--_000_D7AD770735725christerholmbergericssoncom_
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Hi,







I have merged the pull request created based on Ben=92s AD review, and=
 submitted a new version (-14) of SIP Push.







The new version does NOT contain and changes related to NOTIFY (Robert=
=92s pull request has not been merged). I will write a separate e-mail abou=
t that, and how to move forward.







Regards,







Christer




--_000_D7AD770735725christerholmbergericssoncom_--


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From: Christer Holmberg 
To: "sipcore@ietf.org" , "sipcore-chairs@ietf.org" , Ben Campbell , Robert Sparks 
Thread-Topic: SIP Push with SIP notifications: Way forward
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Archived-At: 
Subject: [sipcore] SIP Push with SIP notifications: Way forward
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Hi,

In order to be able to move the SIP Push draft forward, I see two
alternatives for addressing the NOTIFY issue raised by Ben and Robert.

Alternative 1:
--------------

We allow the pn- parameters in dialogs where there is a chance that the
SIP UA may be asleep when inbound requests (e.g., NOTIFY) arrive, assuming
that:

- the pn- parameters alone cannot be used to trigger push notifications;
and/or
- the remote peer (the notifier in case of SUB/NOT) is considered trusted.

Other cases would not be supported by the draft.

This alternative could be implemented in the current draft.


Alternative 2:
--------------

We want to do something else in order to support NOTIFY.

This alternative should be implemented in a separate draft.


I am ok adding text for Alternative 1, but I would not want to hold the
current draft if we decided to go for Alternative 2.


Regards,

Christer=20


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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Session Initiation Protocol Core WG of the IETF.

        Title           : Session Initiation Protocol (SIP) Session Timer Glare Handling
        Author          : Christer Holmberg
	Filename        : draft-ietf-sipcore-sessiontimer-race-02.txt
	Pages           : 7
	Date            : 2018-08-30

Abstract:
   This document updates RFC 4028, by clarifying the procedures for
   negotiating usage of the Session Initiation Protocol (SIP) session
   timer mechansim, in order to avoid a race condition where both
   endpoints trigger simultaneous negotiations.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sipcore-sessiontimer-race/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sipcore-sessiontimer-race-02
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sipcore-sessiontimer-race-02

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-sipcore-sessiontimer-race-02


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


From nobody Thu Aug 30 07:51:07 2018
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To: Christer Holmberg , "sipcore@ietf.org" , "sipcore-chairs@ietf.org" , Ben Campbell 
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From: Robert Sparks 
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Subject: Re: [sipcore] SIP Push with SIP notifications: Way forward
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Option 1, and I don't understand "other cases would not be supported".

You've decided to try to solve this problem at the SIP layer, and it 
needs to work with SIP. All of it - there needn't be anything special 
about MESSAGE or NOTIFY - you need to be able to deal with any SIP 
request. I think you're pretty close.

RjS


On 8/30/18 2:30 AM, Christer Holmberg wrote:
> Hi,
>
> In order to be able to move the SIP Push draft forward, I see two
> alternatives for addressing the NOTIFY issue raised by Ben and Robert.
>
> Alternative 1:
> --------------
>
> We allow the pn- parameters in dialogs where there is a chance that the
> SIP UA may be asleep when inbound requests (e.g., NOTIFY) arrive, assuming
> that:
>
> - the pn- parameters alone cannot be used to trigger push notifications;
> and/or
> - the remote peer (the notifier in case of SUB/NOT) is considered trusted.
>
> Other cases would not be supported by the draft.
>
> This alternative could be implemented in the current draft.
>
>
> Alternative 2:
> --------------
>
> We want to do something else in order to support NOTIFY.
>
> This alternative should be implemented in a separate draft.
>
>
> I am ok adding text for Alternative 1, but I would not want to hold the
> current draft if we decided to go for Alternative 2.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Christer
>


From nobody Thu Aug 30 08:00:26 2018
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To: Christer Holmberg 
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Subject: Re: [sipcore] SIP Push with SIP notifications: Way forward
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Hi Christer,

I=E2=80=99m skeptical about Alternative 2. If the solution for =
mid-dialog is more complicated than just =E2=80=9Cleave the push =
parameters in the contact URI=E2=80=9D, then it could be hard to =
retrofit a mid-dialog solution in after the fact.

For alternative 1, I think we need some clearer thought around the =
privacy implications behind sharing the push parameters.

Ben.

> On Aug 30, 2018, at 2:30 AM, Christer Holmberg =
 wrote:
>=20
> Hi,
>=20
> In order to be able to move the SIP Push draft forward, I see two
> alternatives for addressing the NOTIFY issue raised by Ben and Robert.
>=20
> Alternative 1:
> --------------
>=20
> We allow the pn- parameters in dialogs where there is a chance that =
the
> SIP UA may be asleep when inbound requests (e.g., NOTIFY) arrive, =
assuming
> that:
>=20
> - the pn- parameters alone cannot be used to trigger push =
notifications;
> and/or
> - the remote peer (the notifier in case of SUB/NOT) is considered =
trusted.
>=20
> Other cases would not be supported by the draft.
>=20
> This alternative could be implemented in the current draft.
>=20
>=20
> Alternative 2:
> --------------
>=20
> We want to do something else in order to support NOTIFY.
>=20
> This alternative should be implemented in a separate draft.
>=20
>=20
> I am ok adding text for Alternative 1, but I would not want to hold =
the
> current draft if we decided to go for Alternative 2.
>=20
>=20
> Regards,
>=20
> Christer
>=20


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From: Christer Holmberg 
To: Robert Sparks , "sipcore@ietf.org" , "sipcore-chairs@ietf.org" , "Ben Campbell" 
Thread-Topic: SIP Push with SIP notifications: Way forward
Thread-Index: AQHUQDNcxnbj16pJ4Ei5NmHBIQFuDqTYP8yAgAAtXLA=
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From: Christer Holmberg 
To: Ben Campbell 
CC: "sipcore@ietf.org" , "sipcore-chairs@ietf.org" , Robert Sparks 
Thread-Topic: SIP Push with SIP notifications: Way forward
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Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2018 15:40:26 +0000
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To: Christer Holmberg 
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Subject: Re: [sipcore] SIP Push with SIP notifications: Way forward
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> On Aug 30, 2018, at 10:35 AM, Christer Holmberg  wrote:
>=20
> Hi Robert,
>=20
>> Option 1, and I don't understand "other cases would not be supported".
>>=20
>> You've decided to try to solve this problem at the SIP layer, and it need=
s to work with SIP. All >of it - there needn't be anything special about MES=
SAGE or NOTIFY - you need to be able to >deal with any SIP request. I think y=
ou're pretty close.
>=20
> MESSAGE is an out-of-dialog request, so it works with the current version o=
f the draft.

That was an odd comment to make in response to what I said. I understand you=
r sentence in isolation, but I cant figure out how it applies to my comment.=
=20


>=20
> Regards,
>=20
> Christer
>=20
>=20
>=20
>> On 8/30/18 2:30 AM, Christer Holmberg wrote:
>> Hi,
>>=20
>> In order to be able to move the SIP Push draft forward, I see two=20
>> alternatives for addressing the NOTIFY issue raised by Ben and Robert.
>>=20
>> Alternative 1:
>> --------------
>>=20
>> We allow the pn- parameters in dialogs where there is a chance that=20
>> the SIP UA may be asleep when inbound requests (e.g., NOTIFY) arrive,=20
>> assuming
>> that:
>>=20
>> - the pn- parameters alone cannot be used to trigger push=20
>> notifications; and/or
>> - the remote peer (the notifier in case of SUB/NOT) is considered trusted=
.
>>=20
>> Other cases would not be supported by the draft.
>>=20
>> This alternative could be implemented in the current draft.
>>=20
>>=20
>> Alternative 2:
>> --------------
>>=20
>> We want to do something else in order to support NOTIFY.
>>=20
>> This alternative should be implemented in a separate draft.
>>=20
>>=20
>> I am ok adding text for Alternative 1, but I would not want to hold=20
>> the current draft if we decided to go for Alternative 2.
>>=20
>>=20
>> Regards,
>>=20
>> Christer
>>=20
>=20


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From: Christer Holmberg 
To: Robert Sparks 
CC: "sipcore@ietf.org" , "sipcore-chairs@ietf.org" , Ben Campbell 
Thread-Topic: SIP Push with SIP notifications: Way forward
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Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2018 16:32:55 +0000
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Archived-At: 
Subject: Re: [sipcore] SIP Push with SIP notifications: Way forward
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Hi,

>>> Option 1, and I don't understand "other cases would not be supported".
>>>=20
>>> You've decided to try to solve this problem at the SIP layer, and it ne=
eds to work with SIP. All of it - there needn't be anything special=20
>>> about MESSAGE or NOTIFY - you need to be able to >deal with any SIP req=
uest. I think you're pretty close.
>>=20
>> MESSAGE is an out-of-dialog request, so it works with the current versio=
n of the draft.
>
> That was an odd comment to make in response to what I said. I understand =
your sentence in isolation, but I cant figure out how it applies to my comm=
ent.=20

You said that there needn't be anything special about MESSAGE, so I just wa=
nted to clarify that there isn't anything special about MESSAGE. I am sorry=
 if I misunderstood your comment.

Regards,

Christer


>> On 8/30/18 2:30 AM, Christer Holmberg wrote:
>> Hi,
>>=20
>> In order to be able to move the SIP Push draft forward, I see two=20
>> alternatives for addressing the NOTIFY issue raised by Ben and Robert.
>>=20
>> Alternative 1:
>> --------------
>>=20
>> We allow the pn- parameters in dialogs where there is a chance that=20
>> the SIP UA may be asleep when inbound requests (e.g., NOTIFY) arrive,=20
>> assuming
>> that:
>>=20
>> - the pn- parameters alone cannot be used to trigger push=20
>> notifications; and/or
>> - the remote peer (the notifier in case of SUB/NOT) is considered truste=
d.
>>=20
>> Other cases would not be supported by the draft.
>>=20
>> This alternative could be implemented in the current draft.
>>=20
>>=20
>> Alternative 2:
>> --------------
>>=20
>> We want to do something else in order to support NOTIFY.
>>=20
>> This alternative should be implemented in a separate draft.
>>=20
>>=20
>> I am ok adding text for Alternative 1, but I would not want to hold=20
>> the current draft if we decided to go for Alternative 2.
>>=20
>>=20
>> Regards,
>>=20
>> Christer
>>=20
>=20


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From: Roman Shpount 
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2018 12:35:10 -0400
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To: Christer Holmberg 
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Subject: Re: [sipcore] SIP Push with SIP notifications: Way forward
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--000000000000a4d7120574a9a804
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

On Thu, Aug 30, 2018 at 11:40 AM, Christer Holmberg <
christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:

> Alternative 3 would be for the push proxy to return some random value to
> the UA in the REGISTER response, that is then included in the contact of
> the SUBSCRIBE. Then, when the NOTIFY arrives, the push proxy can map that
> to the registration and  request a push notification. There would be no
> impacts on the home proxy, and it does not require the home proxy to be in
> the path of the dialog.
>

Once again -- we are reinventing GRUU here. I think, the best solution is
to require that GRUU is used when a long duration dialog needs to be
supported. This way, when UA sends a SUBSCRIBE, it will include GRUU in the
Contact, which can be used to match the registration. Push proxy can use
this information to associate SUBSCRIBE dialog with Registration and push
notification settings.

Furthermore, GRUU is kind of required for long duration dialogs anyway,
since client IP has a tendency to change when client goes to sleep. GRUU
allows UA to recover the dialog when UA address changes when it wakes up.

Regards,
_____________
Roman Shpount

--000000000000a4d7120574a9a804
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Thu, Aug 30, 2018 at 11:40 AM, C=
hrister Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:
Alternative 3 would be for the push proxy to return some random val=
ue to the UA in the REGISTER response, that is then included in the contact=
 of the SUBSCRIBE. Then, when the NOTIFY arrives, the push proxy can map th=
at to the registration and=C2=A0 request a push notification. There would b=
e no impacts on the home proxy, and it does not require the home proxy to b=
e in the path of the dialog.

Once again=
 -- we are reinventing GRUU here. I think, the best solution is to require =
that GRUU is used when a long duration dialog needs to be supported. This w=
ay, when UA sends a SUBSCRIBE, it will include GRUU in the Contact, which c=
an be used to match the registration. Push proxy can use this information t=
o associate SUBSCRIBE dialog with Registration and push notification settin=
gs.

Furthermore, GRUU is kind of required for long=
 duration dialogs anyway, since client IP has a tendency to change when cli=
ent goes to sleep. GRUU allows UA to recover the dialog when UA address cha=
nges when it wakes up.

Regards,



_____________
Roman Shpount



=C2=A0


--000000000000a4d7120574a9a804--


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To: Christer Holmberg 
Archived-At: 
Subject: Re: [sipcore] SIP Push with SIP notifications: Way forward
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Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 30, 2018, at 11:32 AM, Christer Holmberg  wrote:
>=20
> Hi,
>=20
>>>> Option 1, and I don't understand "other cases would not be supported".
>>>>=20
>>>> You've decided to try to solve this problem at the SIP layer, and it ne=
eds to work with SIP. All of it - there needn't be anything special=20
>>>> about MESSAGE or NOTIFY - you need to be able to >deal with any SIP req=
uest. I think you're pretty close.
>>>=20
>>> MESSAGE is an out-of-dialog request, so it works with the current versio=
n of the draft.
>>=20
>> That was an odd comment to make in response to what I said. I understand y=
our sentence in isolation, but I cant figure out how it applies to my commen=
t.=20
>=20
> You said that there needn't be anything special about MESSAGE, so I just w=
anted to clarify that there isn't anything special about MESSAGE. I am sorry=
 if I misunderstood your comment.

To clarify, there shouldnt be anything special about NOTIFY, INFO, or any ot=
her existing or potential future SIP request, in or out of dialog.=20

There _is_ something special about MESSAGE if it works and other requests do=
 not.=20

RjS
>=20
> Regards,
>=20
> Christer
>=20
>=20
>>> On 8/30/18 2:30 AM, Christer Holmberg wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>=20
>>> In order to be able to move the SIP Push draft forward, I see two=20
>>> alternatives for addressing the NOTIFY issue raised by Ben and Robert.
>>>=20
>>> Alternative 1:
>>> --------------
>>>=20
>>> We allow the pn- parameters in dialogs where there is a chance that=20
>>> the SIP UA may be asleep when inbound requests (e.g., NOTIFY) arrive,=20=

>>> assuming
>>> that:
>>>=20
>>> - the pn- parameters alone cannot be used to trigger push=20
>>> notifications; and/or
>>> - the remote peer (the notifier in case of SUB/NOT) is considered truste=
d.
>>>=20
>>> Other cases would not be supported by the draft.
>>>=20
>>> This alternative could be implemented in the current draft.
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> Alternative 2:
>>> --------------
>>>=20
>>> We want to do something else in order to support NOTIFY.
>>>=20
>>> This alternative should be implemented in a separate draft.
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> I am ok adding text for Alternative 1, but I would not want to hold=20
>>> the current draft if we decided to go for Alternative 2.
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> Regards,
>>>=20
>>> Christer
>>>=20
>>=20
>=20


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From: Roman Shpount 
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2018 13:18:07 -0400
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To: Robert Sparks 
Cc: Christer Holmberg , Ben Campbell , "sipcore@ietf.org" , "sipcore-chairs@ietf.org" 
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000003b84480574aa4222"
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Subject: Re: [sipcore] SIP Push with SIP notifications: Way forward
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--0000000000003b84480574aa4222
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

On Thu, Aug 30, 2018 at 12:42 PM, Robert Sparks 
wrote:

>
> To clarify, there shouldnt be anything special about NOTIFY, INFO, or any
> other existing or potential future SIP request, in or out of dialog.
>
> There _is_ something special about MESSAGE if it works and other requests
> do not.
>

There is nothing special about MESSAGE, but in and out of dialog requests
are different. Out of dialog requests are sent to AOR. In dialog requests
are sent to dialog contact. Based on the SIP Push draft, AOR has push
notification settings associated with it during registration. This means
any out of dialog requests sent to AOR have access to push notification and
can wake up the UA. In dialog requests, in generic case are sent directly
to the UA bypassing the proxies and have no access to push notification
settings. Because of this, if UA is suspended when this message is sent, it
will not receive it. During call dialog UA is normally awake since it is
receiving and sending media, so messages in call related dialogs should
operate normally. During SUBSCRIBE dialog UA is generally suspended.
Because of this, any messages in a dialog where client can be suspended
must be sent through a push proxy and must be associated with the
registration so that push notification settings can be retrieved. You can
design million ways to do this, but the standard compliant way is to
require UA to use GRUU when starting long duration dialog where UA can be
suspended. Push proxy must add itself to the Record-Route set of the dialog
so all the subsequent messages in this dialog go through it. When it
receives the message in such long duration dialog, it pulls the
registration information based on GRUU and issues push notification to wake
up the client.

Regards,
_____________
Roman Shpount

--0000000000003b84480574aa4222
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Thu, Aug 30, 2018 at 12:42 PM, R=
obert Sparks <rjsparks@nostrum.com> wrote:


To clarify, there shouldnt be anything special about NOTIFY, INFO, o=
r any other existing or potential future SIP request, in or out of dialog. =




There _is_ something special about MESSAGE if it works and other requests d=
o not.=C2=A0

There is nothing special a=
bout MESSAGE, but in and out of dialog requests are different. Out of dialo=
g requests are sent to AOR. In dialog requests are sent to dialog contact. =
Based on the SIP Push draft, AOR has push notification settings associated =
with it during registration. This means any out of dialog requests sent to =
AOR have access to push notification and can wake up the UA. In dialog requ=
ests, in generic case are sent directly to the UA bypassing the proxies and=
 have no access to push notification settings. Because of this, if UA is su=
spended when this message is sent, it will not receive it. During call dial=
og UA is normally awake since it is receiving and sending media, so message=
s in call related dialogs should operate normally. During SUBSCRIBE dialog =
UA is generally suspended. Because of this, any messages in a dialog where =
client can be suspended must be sent through a push proxy and must be assoc=
iated with the registration so that push notification settings can be retri=
eved. You can design million ways to do this, but the standard compliant wa=
y is to require UA to use GRUU when starting long duration dialog where UA =
can be suspended. Push proxy must add itself to the Record-Route set of the=
 dialog so all the subsequent messages in this dialog go through it. When i=
t receives the message in such long duration dialog, it pulls the registrat=
ion information based on GRUU and issues push notification to wake up the c=
lient.

Regards,



_____________
Roman Shpount



=C2=A0


--0000000000003b84480574aa4222--


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From: Christer Holmberg 
To: Roman Shpount 
CC: Ben Campbell , "sipcore@ietf.org" , "sipcore-chairs@ietf.org" 
Thread-Topic: [sipcore] SIP Push with SIP notifications: Way forward
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Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2018 18:15:52 +0000
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From: Christer Holmberg 
To: Robert Sparks 
CC: "sipcore@ietf.org" , "sipcore-chairs@ietf.org" , Ben Campbell 
Thread-Topic: SIP Push with SIP notifications: Way forward
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Subject: Re: [sipcore] SIP Push with SIP notifications: Way forward
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Hi,

>>>>> Option 1, and I don't understand "other cases would not be supported"=
.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> You've decided to try to solve this problem at the SIP layer, and=20
>>>>> it needs to work with SIP. All of it - there needn't be anything spec=
ial about MESSAGE or NOTIFY - you=20
>>>>> need to be able to >deal with any SIP request. I think you're pretty =
close.
>>>>=20
>>>> MESSAGE is an out-of-dialog request, so it works with the current vers=
ion of the draft.
>>>=20
>>> That was an odd comment to make in response to what I said. I understan=
d your sentence in=20
>>> isolation, but I cant figure out how it applies to my comment.=20
>>=20
>> You said that there needn't be anything special about MESSAGE, so I just=
 wanted to clarify that=20
>> there isn't anything special about MESSAGE. I am sorry if I misunderstoo=
d your comment.
>
> To clarify, there shouldnt be anything special about NOTIFY, INFO, or any=
 other existing or potential future SIP request, in or out of dialog.=20
>
> There _is_ something special about MESSAGE if it works and other requests=
 do not.=20

I would say there is something special about NOTIFY, because the is what we=
 are having a problem with :)

Anyway, there is no idea spending time arguing about that. Let's instead se=
e how/if we can make NOTIFY work.

Regards,

Christer



>>> On 8/30/18 2:30 AM, Christer Holmberg wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>=20
>>> In order to be able to move the SIP Push draft forward, I see two=20
>>> alternatives for addressing the NOTIFY issue raised by Ben and Robert.
>>>=20
>>> Alternative 1:
>>> --------------
>>>=20
>>> We allow the pn- parameters in dialogs where there is a chance that=20
>>> the SIP UA may be asleep when inbound requests (e.g., NOTIFY)=20
>>> arrive, assuming
>>> that:
>>>=20
>>> - the pn- parameters alone cannot be used to trigger push=20
>>> notifications; and/or
>>> - the remote peer (the notifier in case of SUB/NOT) is considered trust=
ed.
>>>=20
>>> Other cases would not be supported by the draft.
>>>=20
>>> This alternative could be implemented in the current draft.
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> Alternative 2:
>>> --------------
>>>=20
>>> We want to do something else in order to support NOTIFY.
>>>=20
>>> This alternative should be implemented in a separate draft.
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> I am ok adding text for Alternative 1, but I would not want to hold=20
>>> the current draft if we decided to go for Alternative 2.
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> Regards,
>>>=20
>>> Christer
>>>=20
>>=20
>=20


From nobody Thu Aug 30 11:20:43 2018
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To: Christer Holmberg 
Cc: "sipcore@ietf.org" , "sipcore-chairs@ietf.org" , Ben Campbell 
References:   <8736a8df3bd243b7b7407561679fe26f@ericsson.com> <578004BA-8843-4D0F-8F9D-723DD0E0DC7D@nostrum.com> <1748626abd3a41018b4278351317d3e8@ericsson.com> <49D76069-6473-4DCB-9A7D-6552B4F41218@nostrum.com> <975e79294fdd46cf8300a88ff7fd5be0@ericsson.com>
From: Robert Sparks 
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Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2018 13:20:35 -0500
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Subject: Re: [sipcore] SIP Push with SIP notifications: Way forward
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On 8/30/18 1:18 PM, Christer Holmberg wrote:
> Hi,
>
>>>>>> Option 1, and I don't understand "other cases would not be supported".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You've decided to try to solve this problem at the SIP layer, and
>>>>>> it needs to work with SIP. All of it - there needn't be anything special about MESSAGE or NOTIFY - you
>>>>>> need to be able to >deal with any SIP request. I think you're pretty close.
>>>>> MESSAGE is an out-of-dialog request, so it works with the current version of the draft.
>>>> That was an odd comment to make in response to what I said. I understand your sentence in
>>>> isolation, but I cant figure out how it applies to my comment.
>>> You said that there needn't be anything special about MESSAGE, so I just wanted to clarify that
>>> there isn't anything special about MESSAGE. I am sorry if I misunderstood your comment.
>> To clarify, there shouldnt be anything special about NOTIFY, INFO, or any other existing or potential future SIP request, in or out of dialog.
>>
>> There _is_ something special about MESSAGE if it works and other requests do not.
> I would say there is something special about NOTIFY, because the is what we are having a problem with :)
>
> Anyway, there is no idea spending time arguing about that. Let's instead see how/if we can make NOTIFY work.
Do you see issues with proceeding with Roman's suggestions? They seem to 
be going the right direction to me.
>
> Regards,
>
> Christer
>
>
>
>>>> On 8/30/18 2:30 AM, Christer Holmberg wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> In order to be able to move the SIP Push draft forward, I see two
>>>> alternatives for addressing the NOTIFY issue raised by Ben and Robert.
>>>>
>>>> Alternative 1:
>>>> --------------
>>>>
>>>> We allow the pn- parameters in dialogs where there is a chance that
>>>> the SIP UA may be asleep when inbound requests (e.g., NOTIFY)
>>>> arrive, assuming
>>>> that:
>>>>
>>>> - the pn- parameters alone cannot be used to trigger push
>>>> notifications; and/or
>>>> - the remote peer (the notifier in case of SUB/NOT) is considered trusted.
>>>>
>>>> Other cases would not be supported by the draft.
>>>>
>>>> This alternative could be implemented in the current draft.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Alternative 2:
>>>> --------------
>>>>
>>>> We want to do something else in order to support NOTIFY.
>>>>
>>>> This alternative should be implemented in a separate draft.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I am ok adding text for Alternative 1, but I would not want to hold
>>>> the current draft if we decided to go for Alternative 2.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Christer
>>>>


From nobody Thu Aug 30 11:31:10 2018
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From: Christer Holmberg 
To: Robert Sparks 
CC: "sipcore@ietf.org" , "sipcore-chairs@ietf.org" , Ben Campbell 
Thread-Topic: SIP Push with SIP notifications: Way forward
Thread-Index: AQHUQDNcxnbj16pJ4Ei5NmHBIQFuDqTYP8yAgAAtXLD//+zaAIAAI1vQ///hmICAADuowP//37+AAARlXfA=
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2018 18:31:04 +0000
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Subject: Re: [sipcore] SIP Push with SIP notifications: Way forward
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From: Roman Shpount 
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2018 14:31:49 -0400
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To: Christer Holmberg 
Cc: Ben Campbell , "sipcore@ietf.org" ,  "sipcore-chairs@ietf.org" 
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000cc304d0574ab497b"
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Subject: Re: [sipcore] SIP Push with SIP notifications: Way forward
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

On Thu, Aug 30, 2018 at 2:15 PM, Christer Holmberg <
christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:

> If operators support GRUU, they can use it. But, I don't think we shall
> mandate people to implement GRUU in order to make SIP Push work.
>
> And, the "random value" does not need to have the properties of a GRUU: it
> does not have to be globally unique, and it does not have to globally
> routable - it only needs to be unique within the push proxy, so it can be
> mapped to a registration.
>

GRUU is something returned from the registration server which UA needs to
put in the contact. Your proposed random value is something that UA needs
to add to the contact. As far as UA is concerned, this is the same amount
of work. As far as server implementation is concerned, GRUU can be
implemented as AOR with your random string added as a parameter. This gets
you all the GRUU properties you need, so server implementation wise it is
the same. As far as specification or implementation support is concerned,
GRUU is better since it already well defined, solves a number of other
existing problems, and deals with privacy and fingerprinting issues.

To summarize, I do not think we need yet another unique registration ID for
push.

Regards,
_____________
Roman Shpount

--000000000000cc304d0574ab497b
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Thu, Aug 30, 2018 at 2:15 PM, Ch=
rister Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:
If operators support GRUU, they can use it. But, I don't think w=
e shall mandate people to implement GRUU in order to make SIP Push work. 


And, the "random value" does not need to have the properties of a=
 GRUU: it does not have to be globally unique, and it does not have to glob=
ally routable - it only needs to be unique within the push proxy, so it can=
 be mapped to a registration.

GRUU is s=
omething returned from the registration server which UA needs to put in the=
 contact. Your proposed random value is something that UA needs to add to t=
he contact. As far as UA is concerned, this is the same amount of work. As =
far as server implementation is concerned, GRUU can be implemented as AOR w=
ith your random string added as a parameter. This gets you all the GRUU pro=
perties you need, so server implementation wise it is the same. As far as s=
pecification or implementation support is concerned, GRUU is better since i=
t already well defined, solves a number of other existing problems, and dea=
ls with privacy and fingerprinting issues.

To summ=
arize, I do not think we need yet another unique registration ID for push.<=
/div>

Regards,



_____________
Roman Shpount



=C2=A0


--000000000000cc304d0574ab497b--


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From: Christer Holmberg 
To: Roman Shpount 
CC: Ben Campbell , "sipcore@ietf.org" , "sipcore-chairs@ietf.org" 
Thread-Topic: [sipcore] SIP Push with SIP notifications: Way forward
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Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2018 18:44:47 +0000
Message-ID: 
References:   <034e7eeacf9f4978be9870357b06e8c9@ericsson.com>  <5c7f1326cc8f421d85feceb7c2e2ab51@ericsson.com> 
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From: Roman Shpount 
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2018 14:07:39 -0400
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Subject: Re: [sipcore] SIP Push with SIP notifications: Way forward
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Christer,

On Fri, Aug 31, 2018 at 2:03 PM, Christer Holmberg <
christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:

> I was thinking that, in the case where the registrar does not support
> GRUU, the proposed "random value" returned to the UA by the push proxy
> could be considered a locally constructed GRUU. Then, when the UA sends a
> request for a dialog (e.g., SUBSCRIBE), it would always include the GRUU in
> the Contact of the request , and when the push proxy receives an inbound
> mid-dialog request (e.g., NOTIFY), it would always look for the GRUU in
> order to map the request to the registration.
>

Yes, this is exactly what I thought. If registrar does not support GRUU,
push proxy can generate a local GRUU which includes the extra parameters it
needs. If UA supports GRUU it will use the push proxy generated GRUU. This
way GRUU support is only needed on the client, which I assume is new since
it needs to support new push draft.

What do you think?

Regards,
_____________
Roman Shpount

--0000000000003817000574bf115b
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Christer,

On Fri, Aug 31, 2018 at 2:03 =
PM, Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com>=
 wrote:
I was thinking that, in the case where th=
e registrar does not support GRUU, the proposed "random value" re=
turned to the UA by the push proxy could be considered a locally constructe=
d GRUU. Then, when the UA sends a request for a dialog (e.g., SUBSCRIBE), i=
t would always include the GRUU in the Contact of the request , and when th=
e push proxy receives an inbound mid-dialog request (e.g., NOTIFY), it woul=
d always look for the GRUU in order to map the request to the registration.=





Yes, this is exactly what I thought. If registrar does not =
support GRUU, push proxy can generate a local GRUU which includes the extra=
 parameters it needs. If UA supports GRUU it will use the push proxy genera=
ted GRUU. This way GRUU support is only needed on the client, which I assum=
e is new since it needs to support new push draft.
What do you think?

Regards,
_____________
Roman Shpount
=



=C2=A0


--0000000000003817000574bf115b--


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From: Christer Holmberg 
To: Christer Holmberg , Roman Shpount 
CC: Ben Campbell , "sipcore@ietf.org" , "sipcore-chairs@ietf.org" 
Thread-Topic: [sipcore] SIP Push with SIP notifications: Way forward
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Subject: Re: [sipcore] SIP Push with SIP notifications: Way forward
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Hi,

I was thinking that, in the case where the registrar does not support GRUU,=
 the proposed "random value" returned to the UA by the push proxy could be =
considered a locally constructed GRUU. Then, when the UA sends a request fo=
r a dialog (e.g., SUBSCRIBE), it would always include the GRUU in the Conta=
ct of the request , and when the push proxy receives an inbound mid-dialog =
request (e.g., NOTIFY), it would always look for the GRUU in order to map t=
he request to the registration.

Regards,

Christer


-----Original Message-----
From: sipcore [mailto:sipcore-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Christer Holmb=
erg
Sent: 30 August 2018 21:45
To: Roman Shpount 
Cc: Ben Campbell ; sipcore@ietf.org; sipcore-chairs@ietf.o=
rg
Subject: Re: [sipcore] SIP Push with SIP notifications: Way forward

Hi,

>> If operators support GRUU, they can use it. But, I don't think we=20
>> shall mandate people to implement GRUU in order to make SIP Push work.
>>
>> And, the "random value" does not need to have the properties of a=20
>> GRUU: it does not have to be globally unique, and it does not have to=20
>> globally routable - it only needs to be unique within the push proxy, so=
 it can be mapped to a registration.
>
> GRUU is something returned from the registration server which UA needs to=
 put in the contact.=20
> Your proposed random value is something that UA needs to add to the=20
> contact. As far as UA is concerned, this is the same amount of work.

Yes, but it does not impact the registrar.=20

> As far as server implementation is concerned, GRUU can be implemented=20
> as AOR with your random string added as a parameter. This gets you all=20
> the GRUU properties you need, so server implementation wise it is the=20
> same. As far as specification or implementation support is concerned, GRU=
U is better since it already well defined, solves a number of other existin=
g problems, and deals with privacy and fingerprinting issues.

And if operators need a solution to those problems they may implement GRUU.=
 It is not up to us to decide.

As I said in the beginning of this work, in order to make a standardized so=
lution a success, I strongly believe that we should avoid impacting the reg=
istrar, or the home proxy. Updating those are big and long-lasting projects=
 in most cases.

Regards,

Christer
_______________________________________________
sipcore mailing list
sipcore@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipcore


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Subject: Re: [sipcore] SIP Push with SIP notifications: Way forward
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On 8/31/18 2:07 PM, Roman Shpount wrote:
> Christer,
> 
> On Fri, Aug 31, 2018 at 2:03 PM, Christer Holmberg 
> > 
> wrote:
> 
>     I was thinking that, in the case where the registrar does not
>     support GRUU, the proposed "random value" returned to the UA by the
>     push proxy could be considered a locally constructed GRUU. Then,
>     when the UA sends a request for a dialog (e.g., SUBSCRIBE), it would
>     always include the GRUU in the Contact of the request , and when the
>     push proxy receives an inbound mid-dialog request (e.g., NOTIFY), it
>     would always look for the GRUU in order to map the request to the
>     registration.
> 
> 
> Yes, this is exactly what I thought. If registrar does not support GRUU, 
> push proxy can generate a local GRUU which includes the extra parameters 
> it needs. If UA supports GRUU it will use the push proxy generated GRUU. 
> This way GRUU support is only needed on the client, which I assume is 
> new since it needs to support new push draft.
> 
> What do you think?

I think this requires some careful thought!

By doing this, the push "proxy" becomes a B2BUA.

Also, would this be a temp gruu or permanent gruu. There are rules about 
the lifetimes of each.

And do recall that the "gr" in gruu means "globally routable". Will the 
resulting URL actually have that property?

	Thanks,
	Paul

	Thanks,
	Paul


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From: Christer Holmberg 
To: Paul Kyzivat , "sipcore@ietf.org" 
Thread-Topic: [sipcore] SIP Push with SIP notifications: Way forward
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Subject: Re: [sipcore] SIP Push with SIP notifications: Way forward
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Hi,

>>>     I was thinking that, in the case where the registrar does not
>>>     support GRUU, the proposed "random value" returned to the UA by the
>>>     push proxy could be considered a locally constructed GRUU. Then,
>>>     when the UA sends a request for a dialog (e.g., SUBSCRIBE), it woul=
d
>>>     always include the GRUU in the Contact of the request , and when th=
e
>>>     push proxy receives an inbound mid-dialog request (e.g., NOTIFY), i=
t
>>>     would always look for the GRUU in order to map the request to the
>>>     registration.
>>=20
>>=20
>> Yes, this is exactly what I thought. If registrar does not support=20
>> GRUU, push proxy can generate a local GRUU which includes the extra=20
>> parameters it needs. If UA supports GRUU it will use the push proxy gene=
rated GRUU.
>> This way GRUU support is only needed on the client, which I assume is=20
>> new since it needs to support new push draft.
>>=20
>> What do you think?
>
> I think this requires some careful thought!
>
> By doing this, the push "proxy" becomes a B2BUA.

Why do you think that? The push proxy would not modify the contact.

>Also, would this be a temp gruu or permanent gruu. There are rules about t=
he lifetimes of each.
>
>And do recall that the "gr" in gruu means "globally routable". Will the re=
sulting URL actually have that property?

I think it would be as routable as a locally constructed GRUU.

Regards,

Christer


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From: Roman Shpount 
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2018 15:56:42 -0400
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To: Paul Kyzivat 
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Subject: Re: [sipcore] SIP Push with SIP notifications: Way forward
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--0000000000003da9a50574c09758
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On Fri, Aug 31, 2018 at 2:51 PM, Paul Kyzivat  wrote:

> On 8/31/18 2:07 PM, Roman Shpount wrote:
>
>>     I was thinking that, in the case where the registrar does not
>>     support GRUU, the proposed "random value" returned to the UA by the
>>     push proxy could be considered a locally constructed GRUU. Then,
>>     when the UA sends a request for a dialog (e.g., SUBSCRIBE), it would
>>     always include the GRUU in the Contact of the request , and when the
>>     push proxy receives an inbound mid-dialog request (e.g., NOTIFY), it
>>     would always look for the GRUU in order to map the request to the
>>     registration.
>>
>>
>> Yes, this is exactly what I thought. If registrar does not support GRUU,
>> push proxy can generate a local GRUU which includes the extra parameters it
>> needs. If UA supports GRUU it will use the push proxy generated GRUU. This
>> way GRUU support is only needed on the client, which I assume is new since
>> it needs to support new push draft.
>>
>>
> By doing this, the push "proxy" becomes a B2BUA.
>

You are correct. Proxy cannot modify Contact when it is passed through in
any direction without becoming B2BUA. Essentially, what we are missing
functionality to set UA Record-Route header set based on REGISTER 2XX
response. All we can do now is to set contact using GRUU. Unless I am
mistaken, since none of the headers proxy adds to REGISTER request get back
to UA, and since push proxy cannot add any headers to REGISTER response, in
order to pass any information from push proxy to UA, push proxy needs to
become B2BUA, .

Also, would this be a temp gruu or permanent gruu. There are rules about
> the lifetimes of each.
>

This would probably be a permanent GRUU, since it would not be updated on
every refresh. Ideally we would like to keep it when client suspends and
resumes, each of which will generate a new Registration refresh.

And do recall that the "gr" in gruu means "globally routable". Will the
> resulting URL actually have that property?
>

Provided the push proxy has a public URI, which it needs to receive NOTIFY
message directly, this URI will be globally routable.

After thinking about this a bit more, I have a more general question: What
about UA initiated dialogs which occur from UA which are not registered? In
general case, UA can issue a SUBSCRIBE without doing a registration first.
How would messages to UA work in this case? One option is to insert pn-
parameters in the Contact header of such dialog creating request. Apart
from obvious privacy concerns, this should work.

Alternatively, what needs to happen is essentially double registration,
where UA needs to send pn- parameters to the push proxy and obtain the URI
which is pointed to the push proxy (sort of push version of GRUU). SIP UA
will use this new URI instead of its normal contact as a registration
contact or contact for any dialog creating requests it sends out. This way
you do not need Path or GRUU support on the registrar/home proxy.

Regards,
_____________
Roman Shpount

--0000000000003da9a50574c09758
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On Fri, Aug 31, 2018 at 2:51 PM, Pa=
ul Kyzivat <pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
On 8/31/18 2:07 PM, Roman Shpount wrote:


=C2=A0 =C2=A0 I was =
thinking that, in the case where the registrar does not

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 support GRUU, the proposed "random value" returned =
to the UA by the

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 push proxy could be considered a locally constructed GRUU. Th=
en,

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 when the UA sends a request for a dialog (e.g., SUBSCRIBE), i=
t would

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 always include the GRUU in the Contact of the request , and w=
hen the

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 push proxy receives an inbound mid-dialog request (e.g., NOTI=
FY), it

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 would always look for the GRUU in order to map the request to=
 the

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 registration.





Yes, this is exactly what I thought. If registrar does not support GRUU, pu=
sh proxy can generate a local GRUU which includes the extra parameters it n=
eeds. If UA supports GRUU it will use the push proxy generated GRUU. This w=
ay GRUU support is only needed on the client, which I assume is new since i=
t needs to support new push draft.




By doing this, the push "proxy" becomes a B2BUA.
=

=C2=A0
You are correct. Proxy cannot modify Contact when it =
is passed through in any direction without becoming B2BUA. Essentially, wha=
t we are missing functionality to set UA Record-Route header set based on R=
EGISTER 2XX response. All we can do now is to set contact using GRUU. Unles=
s I am mistaken,=20

Also, w=
ould this be a temp gruu or permanent gruu. There are rules about the lifet=
imes of each.
=C2=A0
This would probably be =
a permanent GRUU, since it would not be updated on every refresh. Ideally w=
e would like to keep it when client suspends and resumes, each of which wil=
l generate a new Registration refresh.

And do recall that the "gr" in gruu means "gl=
obally routable". Will the resulting URL actually have that property?<=
br>

Provided the push proxy has a public UR=
I, which it needs to receive NOTIFY message directly, this URI will be glob=
ally routable.

After thinking about this a bit mor=
e, I have a more general question: What about UA initiated dialogs which oc=
cur from UA which are not registered? In general case, UA can issue a SUBSC=
RIBE without doing a registration first. How would messages to UA work in t=
his case? One option is to insert pn- parameters in the Contact header of s=
uch dialog creating request. Apart from obvious privacy concerns, this shou=
ld work.=C2=A0

Alternatively, what needs to happen=
 is essentially double registration, where UA needs to send pn- parameters =
to the push proxy and obtain the URI which is pointed to the push proxy (so=
rt of push version of GRUU). SIP UA will use this new URI instead of its no=
rmal contact as a registration contact or contact for any dialog creating r=
equests it sends out. This way you do not need Path or GRUU support on the =
registrar/home proxy.

Regards,



_____________
Roman Shpount



=C2=A0


--0000000000003da9a50574c09758--


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From: Christer Holmberg 
To: Roman Shpount , Paul Kyzivat 
CC: SIPCORE 
Thread-Topic: [sipcore] SIP Push with SIP notifications: Way forward
Thread-Index: AQHUQDNcxnbj16pJ4Ei5NmHBIQFuDqTYQmCAgAArtbD//+7TAIAAPJrw///j/YCAACK/MIABhpfg///iPoAAAYb3AAACSCAAAASw6EA=
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2018 20:12:29 +0000
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From: Roman Shpount 
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2018 16:37:26 -0400
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Message-ID: 
To: Christer Holmberg 
Cc: Paul Kyzivat , SIPCORE 
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000e04a040574c1281e"
Archived-At: 
Subject: Re: [sipcore] SIP Push with SIP notifications: Way forward
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--000000000000e04a040574c1281e
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On Fri, Aug 31, 2018 at 4:12 PM, Christer Holmberg <
christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:

>
> I don=E2=80=99t think the proxy needs to modify the Contact. The proxy ca=
n provide
> a local GRUU e.g., using a media feature tag. That is my idea for providi=
ng
> the =E2=80=9Crandom value=E2=80=9D (no matter whether it is a GRUU or not=
).
>
>
>
Ok, we can define a new media feature tag that proxy can add to response
which will be used similar to permanent GRUU. The push enabled UA will use
value of this field as a contact for all dialog creating requests it will
send.

Regards,
_____________
Roman Shpount

--000000000000e04a040574c1281e
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On Fri, Aug 31, 2018 at 4:12 PM, Ch=
rister Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:














I don=E2=80=99t think the proxy needs=
 to modify the Contact. The proxy can provide a local GRUU e.g., using a me=
dia feature tag. That is my
 idea for providing the =E2=80=9Crandom value=E2=80=9D (no matter whether i=
t is a GRUU or not).




Ok, we can define a new media feature tag that proxy can add to response w=
hich will be used similar to permanent GRUU. The push enabled UA will use v=
alue of this field as a contact for all dialog creating requests it will se=
nd.

Regards,



_____________
Roman Shpount



=C2=A0


--000000000000e04a040574c1281e--


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To: Roman Shpount , Christer Holmberg 
Cc: SIPCORE 
References:   <034e7eeacf9f4978be9870357b06e8c9@ericsson.com>  <5c7f1326cc8f421d85feceb7c2e2ab51@ericsson.com>   <20a768b6fb274f7fbd51c4fcd8d2ffbd@ericsson.com>  <77cdb917-4356-bf1b-49ea-8cff2acbe1c5@alum.mit.edu>  <8345406d6f054048ab8c69d312e78d47@ericsson.com> 
From: Paul Kyzivat 
Message-ID: <598b6b7e-8c09-4a18-a60b-d68e68c170fa@alum.mit.edu>
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2018 16:52:04 -0400
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Subject: Re: [sipcore] SIP Push with SIP notifications: Way forward
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On 8/31/18 4:37 PM, Roman Shpount wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 31, 2018 at 4:12 PM, Christer Holmberg 
> > 
> wrote:
> 
> 
>     I don’t think the proxy needs to modify the Contact. The proxy can
>     provide a local GRUU e.g., using a media feature tag. That is my
>     idea for providing the “random value” (no matter whether it is a
>     GRUU or not).____
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, we can define a new media feature tag that proxy can add to response 
> which will be used similar to permanent GRUU. The push enabled UA will 
> use value of this field as a contact for all dialog creating requests it 
> will send.

Just be careful about calling it a gruu unless it actually has gruu 
properties.

	Thanks,
	Paul