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Fri, 3 Aug 2018 14:07:14 +0000 From: Tim Hollebeek To: SPASM Thread-Topic: WG Last Call for draft-ietf-lamps-pkix-shake-02 Thread-Index: AdQrMxyLvSo0zqrPS4WOHlSRAXWuQA== Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2018 14:07:14 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [173.71.184.143] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; BN6PR14MB1121; 6:YVVac809XCtQWHF49c7al/x/0puDh0NCLk6D9J7vre+DX0QJnkiRS69FRoZvA7aoUBtGUo65KcqMrAZOlJMeWOVHPJvKNIO+3VsRtj5/Tp0HsgAHO5LjzaIPR+y4g1WamzHyexNRWs5jI0C4Ufxg7dSbq53bthAHEioxJNa7QaAfPUeozWsIntUEztNakHDHqGOg1yXzIJAG0+cn6eriV5eFdGiSVFnQavFkRPBRA2mlaEDGYrDDPmAkqjm0pVYHbpLRGhtlXZgqD4/c1YD0lEg3pequh1jdiZN0bU416ch77wCVqxnpljIeWlR0VHUtNcuW01Q4mCuPu12cfWASMvphgs0N5Yu4vH8KsqGC4P11zfjtydbWtS29uA8I45snwT4tntatbbHjhHjkPJFV5U9chtYvjowwKRzFDWhjbOqI4laOy9Jjf4+2fGF4b9KqGa+ecMdFBPGn2lezljetJw==; 5:O5oUsMyWB+y+OOczigpYfsSfBStwzzXSxoIHm1gxPCYK56Rl7tlYOkLpQteY9+Vq1hhO3Mcb+PauH8eAB4LAXj3mN5jfcEforC8J7ifiMBe2HeqZgYKNBWr05fQaRta3a7X31TccUiYawUxcDzJ8FBI6YrEPQdLf3pVw89cUe2c=; 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protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=2.16.840.1.101.3.4.2.1; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0E5C_01D42B11.B9F16370" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: digicert.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: df30e764-77ed-4b4c-f874-08d5f94a69ff X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 03 Aug 2018 14:07:14.3291 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: cf813fa1-bde5-4e75-9479-f6aaa8b1f284 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN6PR14MB1121 Archived-At: Subject: [lamps] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-lamps-pkix-shake-02 X-BeenThere: spasm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: "This is a venue for discussion of doing Some Pkix And SMime \(spasm\) work." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2018 14:07:22 -0000 ------=_NextPart_000_0E5C_01D42B11.B9F16370 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0E5D_01D42B11.B9F16370" ------=_NextPart_001_0E5D_01D42B11.B9F16370 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is the LAMPS WG Last Call for "Internet X.509 Public Key Infrastructure: Additional Algorithm Identifiers for RSASSA-PSS and ECDSA using SHAKEs as Hash Functions" . Please review the document and send your comments to the list by 30 August 2018. If no concerns are raised, the document will be forwarded to the IESG with a request for publication as Proposed Standard. -Tim ------=_NextPart_001_0E5D_01D42B11.B9F16370 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

 

This is = the LAMPS WG Last Call for "Internet X.509 Public Key = Infrastructure:

Additional = Algorithm Identifiers for RSASSA-PSS and ECDSA using SHAKEs as =

Hash Functions" = <draft-ietf-lamps-pkix-shake-02>.

 

Please = review the document and send your comments to the list by =

30 August 2018.

 

If no = concerns are raised, the document will be forwarded to the IESG = with

a request for publication as = Proposed Standard.

 

-Tim

 

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[lamps] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-lamps-cms-shakes-01 X-BeenThere: spasm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: "This is a venue for discussion of doing Some Pkix And SMime \(spasm\) work." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2018 14:08:33 -0000 ------=_NextPart_000_0E6A_01D42B11.E5FAE310 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0E6B_01D42B11.E5FAE310" ------=_NextPart_001_0E6B_01D42B11.E5FAE310 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is the LAMPS WG Last Call for "Use of the SHAKE One-way Hash Functions in the Cryptographic Message Syntax (CMS) " . Please review the document and send your comments to the list by 30 August 2018. If no concerns are raised, the document will be forwarded to the IESG with a request for publication as Proposed Standard. -Tim ------=_NextPart_001_0E6B_01D42B11.E5FAE310 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

 

This is = the LAMPS WG Last Call for "Use of the SHAKE One-way Hash Functions = in

the Cryptographic Message = Syntax (CMS) " = <draft-ietf-lamps-cms-shakes-01>.

 

Please = review the document and send your comments to the list by =

30 August 2018.

 

If no = concerns are raised, the document will be forwarded to the IESG = with

a request for publication as = Proposed Standard.

 

-Tim

 

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------=_NextPart_000_0E6A_01D42B11.E5FAE310-- From nobody Fri Aug 3 12:41:35 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spasm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spasm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10526130FFB for ; Fri, 3 Aug 2018 12:41:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id T51grJ1rOI5V for ; Fri, 3 Aug 2018 12:41:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail2.augustcellars.com (augustcellars.com [50.45.239.150]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E1D04130DD7 for ; Fri, 3 Aug 2018 12:41:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Jude (73.180.8.170) by mail2.augustcellars.com (192.168.0.56) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1347.2; Fri, 3 Aug 2018 12:37:27 -0700 From: Jim Schaad To: References: In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2018 12:41:03 -0700 Message-ID: <00b901d42b61$eb8a04a0$c29e0de0$@augustcellars.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Content-Language: en-us Thread-Index: AdQrWI/gim0DHC1IRr6kopVYbZGOFwACVCpw X-Originating-IP: [73.180.8.170] Archived-At: Subject: [lamps] FW: WGLC: draft-ietf-lamps-pkix-shake-02 X-BeenThere: spasm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: "This is a venue for discussion of doing Some Pkix And SMime \(spasm\) work." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2018 19:41:33 -0000 Forgot to add to the distribution list. -----Original Message----- From: Jim Schaad Sent: Friday, August 3, 2018 12:40 PM To: 'draft-ietf-lamps-pkix-shake@ietf.org' Subject: WGLC: draft-ietf-lamps-pkix-shake-02 Not ready for progression. * Run the NITS on this document and fix them. Examples of problems are the fact that MUST language section is missing, possible incorrect references, and you have lines that are too long. * Introduction - I have a problem with the cardinality of items in the second and third paragraphs here. I do not ask that you fix the problems that I have but you should be ready to address this is you get the same questions from the RFC Editor or the IESG. I would consider SHAKE to be a family of extendable-output hash functions and thus has a cardinality of one. The two specific hash functions have a cardinality of greater than one. The question of cardinality comes in terms of the usage of 'A', 'is', 'are'. * Introduction - paragraph 2 - I find the last sentence to be difficult to read. The usage of 'and' here seems to be incorrect and it may be difficult to figure out which pair comes first - resistance or function. * Introduction - paragraph 3 - I am unaware that ECDSA has a mask generating function associated with it. This sentence needs to be cleaned up * Introduction - paragraph 3 - Consider putting in a reference to the algorithm identifiers that are not changing. Probably overkill but still useful * Identifiers - This section needs to nail down all parameters associated w/ the different SHAKE functions when used here. Otherwise you end up with the first assumption that I made which was d = 128 for SHAKE128 which would not produce an acceptable result. * Signatures - Para #3 - you refer to section 3 for OIDs, but they are not there for public keys. * IANA Considerations is incorrect and MUST be updated * Why is there no reference to deterministic ECDSA signatures in the document. * The ASN.1 module is absent and needs to be instantiated. Even doing so with TBD is sufficient for now. Jim From nobody Fri Aug 3 13:08:28 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spasm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spasm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 078B8130DC8; Fri, 3 Aug 2018 13:08:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id phOHE94k7EST; Fri, 3 Aug 2018 13:08:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail2.augustcellars.com (augustcellars.com [50.45.239.150]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5BB0F127B92; Fri, 3 Aug 2018 13:08:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Jude (73.180.8.170) by mail2.augustcellars.com (192.168.0.56) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1347.2; Fri, 3 Aug 2018 13:04:39 -0700 From: Jim Schaad To: CC: Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2018 13:08:15 -0700 Message-ID: <00be01d42b65$b8452ee0$28cf8ca0$@augustcellars.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Content-Language: en-us Thread-Index: AdQrYfbRVkTwsnqsQNmaLQLHacjs/A== X-Originating-IP: [73.180.8.170] Archived-At: Subject: [lamps] WGLC comments draft-ietf-lamps-cms-shakes-01 X-BeenThere: spasm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: "This is a venue for discussion of doing Some Pkix And SMime \(spasm\) work." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2018 20:08:27 -0000 Draft not ready to proceed * See all comments about PKIX shake as many of them are relevant here. * Reading these documents one after the other makes me somewhat sad about the amount of duplicated text. * Identifiers - The values of d need to be discussed as part of the OID definition. * Is there an issue with SHAKE128 of generating two different lengths from the same computing instance? Should be discussed some place. Note that putting this in Security Considerations paragraph 2 would be a reasonable answer in you can tell people WHY they should not expect unrelated outputs. * Message Digests - are the limits on the size only for CMS or do they apply everywhere that the algorithm is used. If it is everywhere how do we reconcile with the usage in RSA-PSS? * Message Authentication Codes - Do we need to address a potential request from some of the IOT worlds such as SUIT where they want to use KMAC, but would be happy with a smaller authentication value? Jim From nobody Fri Aug 10 07:24:49 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spasm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spasm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC936130E1B for ; Fri, 10 Aug 2018 07:24:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.749 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.749 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id q4Pdsry1tLUs for ; Fri, 10 Aug 2018 07:24:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr1-x435.google.com (mail-wr1-x435.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::435]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6E9AB129C6A for ; Fri, 10 Aug 2018 07:24:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wr1-x435.google.com with SMTP id j5-v6so8462129wrr.8 for ; Fri, 10 Aug 2018 07:24:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:reply-to:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=6sBg2Xj8+Wrv1ukFgQrRHV2nhWJfOKF7cl76o0KynJ0=; b=T8xuLso2Ms+sac1I3q+h5YIBvowLBKMT/Q4CzqfUJI48Rp6HtQoJEtZFWP+1XhvaG+ KCk3yxM8WZYrwSXFtxyLCicR8EN9REkyb23DPUD4YZaDenUH7B0KjVfoslIeyqaHZlmm AAdAVzGFMI/LAORGeDGeqzj0Y0IJgpOFHF/xpFCMWds04CfRbwMeT96hUVSorcgztfgS 2rcf3v9jeaLx7RsF/QzFfgWJ3i8WmEZCoLoayKUssbgdmbaYoGkLjGmTMDfMCcYUfnV5 u26yzT7P2mxZB3x5b8ZlizUrhagWjtKk0n5DrOwuHcPDbGaI5SWRgqCP+BZL/gMTl1kK 17og== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:reply-to:in-reply-to:references :from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=6sBg2Xj8+Wrv1ukFgQrRHV2nhWJfOKF7cl76o0KynJ0=; b=WqVPku6IwEMYplmmXvVV56BjtJgaRiOQsm+B+7bH2POfi8rR2eaZGD3jCvFn/PX3IE TYJtV8dZ2WAAbJDBh2pOwMM6avUVQhcqd993l3uWoKsJkCUWP+uvz0OFpwqRN8PnV09j 210yOnj5q8TGT2DmgQPhSgvfD6wH4G+pwnYqO50wPlXNNN2hkpvISUzlJC5+qwZXz39A 2IwiKBwVD6VPjdLrvqLXoMT2Nl547rPcntdkv/T/OpUoxY8BG2EWJP2NTF9eKya8zrwZ zEF7xSm4g+/cM2sr+TDXslKcS71mztjYYAvm/+93hnvrTeKUPKezn0H1gmwoOj4OXvkz p2lA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOUpUlEXSxbPL+7h4oZrJ/oCFuUFPoiBNGyxwagKsKvuQEbI2uy3Zyu7 7Mtu0Xk6uEnlbgUqCavTLqPcqViQPeAjMS08mD1bBQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AA+uWPwWOJN7fW0U3MLoncQfp5d/tgJ5RcJJQcgIHaZGTRdXhD4x7Cijf0XkC6iAJ4Tf85YPNvK02RBepqYonqhXvEA= X-Received: by 2002:a5d:470e:: with SMTP id y14-v6mr4410332wrq.229.1533911083872; Fri, 10 Aug 2018 07:24:43 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:adf:ef8f:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Fri, 10 Aug 2018 07:24:43 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: sarikaya@ieee.org In-Reply-To: <153272356261.413.16107362846124064304.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> References: <153272356261.413.16107362846124064304.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Behcet Sarikaya Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2018 09:24:43 -0500 Message-ID: To: spasm@ietf.org Cc: Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000004577da057315812a" Archived-At: Subject: [lamps] Fwd: New Non-WG Mailing List: PidLoc X-BeenThere: spasm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: "This is a venue for discussion of doing Some Pkix And SMime \(spasm\) work." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2018 14:24:47 -0000 --0000000000004577da057315812a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" LAMPS chairs: please approve this non-member post. A new IETF non-working group email list has been created. List address: PIdLoc@ietf.org Archive: https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/pidloc/ To subscribe: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pidloc Purpose: In IdLoc protocols like LISP, ILA, etc. separation between (fixed) Identifier and (dynamic) Location is proposed to find optimum path for data packets to/from moving devices The threats against privacy in IdLoc protocols include location privacy where if a third party can at any time determine the IP location of some identifier, then the device can at one point be IP geolocated and movement privacy where if a third party can determine that an identifier has changed locator(s) at time T, then even without knowing the particular locators before and after, it can correlate this movement event with other information to create a binding between the identifier and a person. Privacy and security work is needed both in control and data plane There is an existing draft https://www.ietf.org/id/ draft-nordmark-id-loc-privacy-00.txt that is expected to serve as a starting point. The work is expected to clear the way for a wider acceptance/deployment of IdLoc protocol. This may open new application areas such as in future mobile networks. In future mobile networks more efficient differentiation of packet handling according to specific service demands (QoS) are expected. Traditional tunneling and encapsulation between IP addresses (= Id and/or Loc) have disadvantages --0000000000004577da057315812a Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
LAMPS =C2=A0chairs: please approve this non-member post.


A new IETF non-working group email lis= t has been created.

List address: PIdLoc@ietf.org
Archive: https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/br= owse/pidloc/
To subscribe: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinf= o/pidloc

Purpose:
=C2=A0In IdLoc protocols like LISP, ILA, etc.=C2=A0 separation between (fix= ed)
Identifier and (dynamic) Location is proposed to find optimum path for data=
packets to/from moving devices

The threats against privacy in IdLoc protocols include

location privacy where if a third party can at any time determine the IP location of some identifier, then the device can at one point be IP
geolocated and

movement privacy where if a third party can determine that an identifier has changed locator(s) at time T, then even without knowing the
particular locators
before and after, it can correlate this movement event with other
information to create a binding between the identifier and a person.

Privacy and security work is needed both in control and data plane

There is an existing draft https://www.ietf.org/id/
draft-nordmark-id-loc-privacy-00.txt that is expected to serve as a starting point.

The work is expected to clear the way for a wider acceptance/deployment
of IdLoc protocol. This may open new application areas such as in future mobile networks.

In future mobile networks more efficient differentiation of packet
handling according to specific service demands (QoS) are expected. Traditio= nal
tunneling and encapsulation between IP addresses (=3D Id and/or Loc) have disadvantages

--0000000000004577da057315812a-- From nobody Wed Aug 15 11:06:18 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spasm@ietf.org Delivered-To: spasm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 520F113106C; Wed, 15 Aug 2018 11:06:11 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: IETF Meeting Session Request Tool To: Cc: spasm@ietf.org, lamps-chairs@ietf.org, ekr@rtfm.com, housley@vigilsec.com X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.83.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <153435637125.3093.3135863659052118225.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2018 11:06:11 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [lamps] lamps - New Meeting Session Request for IETF 103 X-BeenThere: spasm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 List-Id: "This is a venue for discussion of doing Some Pkix And SMime \(spasm\) work." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2018 18:06:16 -0000 A new meeting session request has just been submitted by Russ Housley, a Chair of the lamps working group. --------------------------------------------------------- Working Group Name: Limited Additional Mechanisms for PKIX and SMIME Area Name: Security Area Session Requester: Russ Housley Number of Sessions: 1 Length of Session(s): 2 Hours Number of Attendees: 50 Conflicts to Avoid: First Priority: suit curdle quic perc saag sidrops sipbrandy tls ipwave stir acme ace rtcweb Second Priority: cfrg dprive oauth ipsecme People who must be present: Russ Housley Eric Rescorla Phillip Hallam-Baker Jim Schaad Timothy Hollebeek Resources Requested: Special Requests: --------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Wed Aug 29 18:34:54 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spasm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spasm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43A7A130F11 for ; Wed, 29 Aug 2018 18:34:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=sn3rd.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mKT4Xs4ro5_Y for ; Wed, 29 Aug 2018 18:34:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qt0-x233.google.com (mail-qt0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c0d::233]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C2016130EEA for ; Wed, 29 Aug 2018 18:34:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qt0-x233.google.com with SMTP id j7-v6so8107843qtp.2 for ; Wed, 29 Aug 2018 18:34:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=sn3rd.com; s=google; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=BkNMRnDEf7kCDwlE93pI34m+uZWhooty8cEInL2MkSQ=; b=K+3qAtPKaZOa3JRdnoZhsnPzwjcWllMeHwJa7wndETlfPq0bITo73s3QkcBd6E7pM5 WN+0TUbZerdz4JhYq8Z1bJtadl2cEPTcXhBduHpysKnzy5GuZtRNzNLJ/MVeDFO6FFpS G5cEv0Kg8u9vUnBEqkOMR026511Bx5f68Lod8= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=BkNMRnDEf7kCDwlE93pI34m+uZWhooty8cEInL2MkSQ=; b=Mk0C7EyPmi9J9vBWl+M4y6LEM4h6JCoy2fSYkTlqBEMBBTgFJ8d+EJLCAEwBNrd/K1 ybjeL3AtBClervpgSmhnxC3J2CnWA8kpQKRfy8Y9y/ny4ND8uyfP2rjTZv2K/8e+O+X7 kGAwPsXhhWX4ABAPxKSUp7npJtUAWchPKTMy8FPGG9Y3A9tS4IpEZPHVOxRN+gqypiiF RPLVabD7BkHuTbSgvtpyi2G7hdZybuoiK/EHw4rrLKi6T6Gdh0gQph9aaE0T8o2vaVoF SvBowljGUa11z+izWTwd6iQMrYGEyamfIy4oLLAMOvuI3d09n6DymOMTmhKakAMTG5+5 DDNQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APzg51BULaR4Bw5g770RJp8tE+1QAQHkanpZ8Cyaac3vu6TWdaf3qPzL FvXyNlZjM4rDVgcRyg7MVXO0JA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ANB0VdbkyvZHfUTttm6l9SGlNoPg1GUSkgEpXA0HmeBzknQeO9vtw2Zveo++U7wAmK77xUqKx6/ZxA== X-Received: by 2002:a0c:d7c3:: with SMTP id g3-v6mr9145745qvj.85.1535592876860; Wed, 29 Aug 2018 18:34:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [172.16.0.18] ([96.231.225.148]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id r67-v6sm2977618qkd.10.2018.08.29.18.34.35 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 29 Aug 2018 18:34:35 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: Sean Turner In-Reply-To: <20180723194623.7niwhsz4tnigwern@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2018 21:34:34 -0400 Cc: spasm@ietf.org, draft-ietf-anima-bootstrapping-keyinfra@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <20180719212936.mroidiansyiurjra@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <20180723194623.7niwhsz4tnigwern@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> To: Toerless Eckert X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [lamps] Renewing (short lived) certs with EST (RFC7030) [was: Re: Sean: Permissibility of expired cert renewal] X-BeenThere: spasm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: "This is a venue for discussion of doing Some Pkix And SMime \(spasm\) work." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2018 01:34:53 -0000 > On Jul 23, 2018, at 15:46, Toerless Eckert wrote: >=20 > Thanks, Sean >=20 > Let me add the LAMPS working group mailing list so we have more eyes = on this. > [Bcc anima WG mailing list so WG members interested in this disus can = subscribe to LAMPS > WG mailing list (spasm@ietf.org) ] > Inline replies/Q's to your analysis at the end of this mail. >=20 > To repeat and expand the goal of this discussion from what i was = saying that > the LAMPS mike in IETF102: >=20 > - In ANIMA draft-ietf-anima-autonomic-control-plane (ACP), we use EST = (RFC7030) > to renew certificates. We would like to make installations with = short-lived > certificates work reliable, but devices may be disconnected longer = than > the short-lived time, so renewal may only happen after the cert is = expired. >=20 > - In the ANIMA WG, we seem to not be clear on the rules for renewing = expired certs. > RFC7030 section 3.3.2 sounds as if it mandatory for the EST server to > validate the client certificate according to RFC5280, so we where = concluding > that an expired client certificate might not be something that the = client > could use if he wanted to comply to all IETF PKIX regulations. >=20 > [ technically it would of course be fine to us the expired client = certificate, > and it might be necessary to use it because for renewals, the = certificate > to be renewed must be carried in the TLS authentication (if i = understand it > correctly, it would not be re-signaled inside the EST connection = because > the EST server wants to have prof of posession of the cert by the = client, > and thats done by TLS and does not need to be duplicate). ] >=20 > - Yaron reminded me that in draft-ietf-acme-star certificates renewed = certificates > are not handled as an entity that requires authentication of the = recipient > but instead something that can be pre-created and cached in various = places > to overcome problems with nomadic connectivity. This to me looks like > quite different from the approach by EST. >=20 > - My thinking is somewhat in the middle between what i think EST says = and what > draft-ietf-acme-star says: >=20 > - In EST, you do want identification with the pre-existing (expired) = certificate. > - The proof of posession of the expired certificate can help the = registrar > to determine aliveness of the client and reset any policy that = could exist > to determine whether the client is dead (after a long enough period = of time) > and stop reneweing certificates. > - The proof of posession is also necessary IMHO when rekeying is = required. >=20 > - Which brings us back to Seans analysis of existing PKIX texts: > (inline) >=20 > On Mon, Jul 23, 2018 at 08:08:10AM -0400, Sean Turner wrote: >> Toreless, >>=20 >> I do not believe there is any prohibition against the use of expired = or even revoked certificates for renew/rekey in the PKIX suite of RFCs. >=20 > That wold be great. >=20 >> The path validation algorithm in 5280 does consider whether the = certificate is revoked/expired, but does hard fail on that status. >=20 > But that would contradict your above statement, would it not ? With = RFC7030 > 3.3.2 requiring RFC5280, it would have to fail for expired = certificates. No ? >=20 >> There???s nothing in the management protocols 2986 (PKCS#10), 5272 = (CMC), and 4210 (CMP) about it either. >=20 > Ok, so we can ignore those docs ;-) >=20 >> But, the real reason it might be allowed is based on the CP = (Certificate Policy) and that follows 3647; this RFC does have sections = on "Identification and authentication for re-key after revocation???; I = say ???might??? here because it is a policy decision (some CPs I???ve = written allow it some do not). >=20 > Ok, so RFC3647 does seem to not describe the case of a purely=20 > expired certificate, but just the re-keying of a certificate that > was revoked, and even in that case it would be permitted based > on a policy, so it would be ok. >=20 > Seems to leave 5280 as the existing doc standing in the way ? > If so, how to most easily fix this ? I think what you=E2=80=99re after is an explicit statement that says = you=E2=80=99re free to use an expired certificate to request a new = certificate? If you=E2=80=99re looking for that to be added to RFC 5280 = I=E2=80=99d say good luck because it=E2=80=99s policy specific thing. spt= From nobody Wed Aug 29 18:43:13 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spasm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spasm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CD24130EE0 for ; Wed, 29 Aug 2018 18:43:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=sn3rd.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wZ8B88oUraOH for ; Wed, 29 Aug 2018 18:43:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qt0-x235.google.com (mail-qt0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c0d::235]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AF8AF130E28 for ; Wed, 29 Aug 2018 18:43:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qt0-x235.google.com with SMTP id r37-v6so8130779qtc.0 for ; Wed, 29 Aug 2018 18:43:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=sn3rd.com; s=google; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=O7MVRVM+5xZWYBZg98yD+Dr5o8ZJy4SQOAM3AozD0pg=; b=SCc5zHw8CRDYyI/jwP7I+XfjAD3JZg5TDJxWzhtt87TE3Kda7EAlsXfrWLujtITy/g 8lrff0jNr1OHbujabDq98u6OCBmUj5or0AB3cCIRiNpiYGVHcmq5MlpkcLvMoWnjBPR0 IvicLd+Bn4jQg5JNytOoMKh0LHPz3U1lU30pg= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=O7MVRVM+5xZWYBZg98yD+Dr5o8ZJy4SQOAM3AozD0pg=; b=Ke6LU3bVIZovFd/aOhdkDh6X0JgXErIlqlO960q4B4sLoYIqtuyjAbEFR8gva1biWK vTWtVPFBp+lStfLO5eJ6GnucBNXU2Ea7Q2ElyxvtsoMjVqI7lZg91XFF8yg5gSXPNll4 pJovhHrSPR96t/6zQHW8NYEWC7SVKhT8GOWg13Etl1lcSX0jp6seNhQCuRwQpZ/LcFet VXdTrMAjsr03dWDn531KEsLsZBsidGk1sNwf0isb4jNVQRqMzBaCjBkgTM7iVqYrCsyI Eljv2d7VrO5VWkHqN7T8NyoXMbDUL1Owpy1vPvr4FyViRG70pzkljJZyFOr0CeUMJnc4 UOog== X-Gm-Message-State: APzg51BpbBB2LGEi0pd4LUcySTc5GdJUN+jcbhFKAWCud5sKnEHgB1GX ZaH88EH40TQWCWMASieng11l5IJDiFs= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ANB0Vda7/yZepoSdx0tEUGSjrkKK3FJEfgHZn7WTAp7XdWLCkIes4+gqluJiuqf1n3V7qKbJFDV+Fw== X-Received: by 2002:ac8:48cf:: with SMTP id l15-v6mr9708166qtr.15.1535593388877; Wed, 29 Aug 2018 18:43:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [172.16.0.18] ([96.231.225.148]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id p57-v6sm3645057qtj.42.2018.08.29.18.43.08 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 29 Aug 2018 18:43:08 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: Sean Turner In-Reply-To: <20180723194623.7niwhsz4tnigwern@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2018 21:43:07 -0400 Cc: spasm@ietf.org, draft-ietf-anima-bootstrapping-keyinfra@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <471854EE-449A-453A-84B7-911365A4F56F@sn3rd.com> References: <20180719212936.mroidiansyiurjra@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <20180723194623.7niwhsz4tnigwern@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> To: Toerless Eckert X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [lamps] Renewing (short lived) certs with EST (RFC7030) [was: Re: Sean: Permissibility of expired cert renewal] X-BeenThere: spasm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: "This is a venue for discussion of doing Some Pkix And SMime \(spasm\) work." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2018 01:43:11 -0000 > On Jul 23, 2018, at 15:46, Toerless Eckert wrote: >=20 >> I do not believe there is any prohibition against the use of expired = or even revoked certificates for renew/rekey in the PKIX suite of RFCs. >=20 > That wold be great. >=20 >> The path validation algorithm in 5280 does consider whether the = certificate is revoked/expired, but does hard fail on that status. >=20 > But that would contradict your above statement, would it not ? With = RFC7030 > 3.3.2 requiring RFC5280, it would have to fail for expired = certificates. No ? I mixed a couple up a couple of things here. The path validation will = return a fail if the certificate validity period does not include the = current time. Most applications I know of throw a warning and don=E2=80=99= t hard fall on this, e.g., the signed message is still displayed to the = user. spt= From nobody Thu Aug 30 07:43:15 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spasm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spasm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D806130E58; Thu, 30 Aug 2018 07:43:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tekYXvAiLu-Q; Thu, 30 Aug 2018 07:43:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3:216:3eff:fe7c:d1f3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8CA6312F1A6; Thu, 30 Aug 2018 07:43:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.21]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 599F920491; Thu, 30 Aug 2018 11:01:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: by sandelman.ca (Postfix, from userid 179) id A36BEB32; Thu, 30 Aug 2018 10:43:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id A070E2D; Thu, 30 Aug 2018 10:43:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: Sean Turner cc: Toerless Eckert , spasm@ietf.org, draft-ietf-anima-bootstrapping-keyinfra@ietf.org In-Reply-To: References: <20180719212936.mroidiansyiurjra@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <20180723194623.7niwhsz4tnigwern@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 24.5.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [lamps] Renewing (short lived) certs with EST (RFC7030) [was: Re: Sean: Permissibility of expired cert renewal] X-BeenThere: spasm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: "This is a venue for discussion of doing Some Pkix And SMime \(spasm\) work." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2018 14:43:13 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sean Turner wrote: >> Seems to leave 5280 as the existing doc standing in the way ? >> If so, how to most easily fix this ? > I think what you=E2=80=99re after is an explicit statement that says = you=E2=80=99re > free to use an expired certificate to request a new certificate? If > you=E2=80=99re looking for that to be added to RFC 5280 I=E2=80=99d s= ay good luck > because it=E2=80=99s policy specific thing. I think that what we want to do is write a Security Considerations for renewing certificates using EST with an expired certificate as authentication. We need to outline what kinds of policy might be require= d, and when it would be approrpriate not to accept specific certificates, or when it might be appropriate to accept no expired certificates (perhaps for= an interval of time). Or just how old (as a percentage of cert life) is too old. I think that the threat case here is that devices are inappropriately disposed of (vulnerable to dumpster diving or ebay acquisition), with the assumption that the credentials are old and do not need to be wiped. Probably there are other threat cases that I have not thought of, and I thi= nk that the goal would be to write the threats down... ideally to give them names. =2D- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -=3D IPv6 IoT consulting =3D- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAluIAn0ACgkQgItw+93Q 3WXtMwf/Yd084MGe7oflzoX1MEpFQsz6xHtwLtPy5HXmuWSy7hze20vu1GNKs4IO DmAdHogut52dxaDw1QmYwh7Imx28b6iZa+zn8gyAgNZuOFARcx1tKnjp6Qrdr00J IJGxsgtLOrNuHEhTx2gcSEgehZ6faw1IqPH5F5M1DBalu/4+2wqeR6CNgaAk4WMU n9wYiROJk8D2C9KDPqhnF49bRbjTUYvg6bewBE3QoOtKBDgGXRBfBc+6avtIwiVb rgplTAzSpCWNqGn6FMr48OLj1NL82lNuRr41xRAlqPNjHyVSq9ZaUBvWcPm+RSpt yHhhpeCGwklIunMcPb5Icldz9OXKCQ== =kfSD -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Thu Aug 30 10:25:35 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spasm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spasm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8567C130DE8; Thu, 30 Aug 2018 10:25:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mSaiLRwDooqo; Thu, 30 Aug 2018 10:25:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail2.augustcellars.com (augustcellars.com [50.45.239.150]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D1946130DE6; Thu, 30 Aug 2018 10:25:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Jude (192.168.1.157) by mail2.augustcellars.com (192.168.1.201) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1347.2; Thu, 30 Aug 2018 10:21:12 -0700 From: Jim Schaad To: 'Michael Richardson' , 'Sean Turner' CC: , , 'Toerless Eckert' References: <20180719212936.mroidiansyiurjra@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <20180723194623.7niwhsz4tnigwern@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <19312.1535640189@localhost> In-Reply-To: <19312.1535640189@localhost> Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2018 10:25:00 -0700 Message-ID: <051f01d44086$639dac60$2ad90520$@augustcellars.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQJs0N/D/l5NoTpYLg93tf6KU6JktQGtF0yUAqwrFxwB3DikzQGoMb9Ao2h8upA= Content-Language: en-us X-Originating-IP: [192.168.1.157] Archived-At: Subject: Re: [lamps] Renewing (short lived) certs with EST (RFC7030) [was: Re: Sean: Permissibility of expired cert renewal] X-BeenThere: spasm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: "This is a venue for discussion of doing Some Pkix And SMime \(spasm\) work." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2018 17:25:34 -0000 One of the issues that you need to make sure to include is that = revocation information must be kept by the EST server until the point in = time that the expired certificate would not be permitted to be used for = authentication. There is currently on a requirement that this = information be kept by the server until "the first CRL after the = certificate expired as been issued." =20 Jim > -----Original Message----- > From: Spasm On Behalf Of Michael Richardson > Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2018 7:43 AM > To: Sean Turner > Cc: spasm@ietf.org; draft-ietf-anima-bootstrapping-keyinfra@ietf.org; = Toerless > Eckert > Subject: Re: [lamps] Renewing (short lived) certs with EST (RFC7030) = [was: Re: > Sean: Permissibility of expired cert renewal] >=20 >=20 > Sean Turner wrote: > >> Seems to leave 5280 as the existing doc standing in the way ? > >> If so, how to most easily fix this ? >=20 > > I think what you=E2=80=99re after is an explicit statement that = says you=E2=80=99re > > free to use an expired certificate to request a new certificate? = If > > you=E2=80=99re looking for that to be added to RFC 5280 = I=E2=80=99d say good luck > > because it=E2=80=99s policy specific thing. >=20 > I think that what we want to do is write a Security Considerations for = renewing > certificates using EST with an expired certificate as > authentication. We need to outline what kinds of policy might be = required, > and when it would be approrpriate not to accept specific certificates, = or when it > might be appropriate to accept no expired certificates (perhaps for an = interval > of time). Or just how old (as a percentage of cert life) is too old. >=20 > I think that the threat case here is that devices are inappropriately = disposed of > (vulnerable to dumpster diving or ebay acquisition), with the = assumption that > the credentials are old and do not need to be wiped. > Probably there are other threat cases that I have not thought of, and = I think that > the goal would be to write the threats down... ideally to give them = names. >=20 > -- > Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works = - > =3D IPv6 IoT consulting =3D- >=20 >=20 From nobody Thu Aug 30 11:54:48 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spasm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spasm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 683F7130EF4 for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2018 11:54:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=sn3rd.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ps6MuYacsE5d for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2018 11:54:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qt0-x234.google.com (mail-qt0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c0d::234]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 96C0D130DDE for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2018 11:54:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qt0-x234.google.com with SMTP id g53-v6so11655630qtg.10 for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2018 11:54:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=sn3rd.com; s=google; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=kb0XzgTzts6DLHMv1ulXxF3XHl3SWIFaNnPiZwFf9ew=; b=e+ATPtjWyEFPPl1jCM9hE/u0Eip2GL1N7+0BJKF28Whp+B9ZkjD7XmoLVeNyIcFCt4 Wn/xI/1XW9C0HDWr6mVwqanR7egotjJyd2xkgjskEhxNfEs1mhDi7omnLTpf31dZbzGE qGrYuG7iuIG7gsQshwgHzFsDM4xWoOX0i+U5k= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=kb0XzgTzts6DLHMv1ulXxF3XHl3SWIFaNnPiZwFf9ew=; b=DCLMFvU6hlhimoOeWQpHZLEu5gk8Ye5sq8UyEPSR40WZduHkvGI0/FJZz68B/mkxqq qENy+YNNjTfnVmUUP88th5L9W6I2smYT7c6SInjkhFekbCvHi7A9EKxAHY7JSqmD1aCD rQFtgtGHJU/rw4vu87R19fTR3SkTUW3kFpx0Ab7B0zgOVMb2BAMEzWiNWL2/Q1UzSk+R t0Rad1LYiM4ZeJJJ+jLBpqoqIhYaI9+4WgF+Bw1UL9Ygu9hoXTT5avwXDy6fawbBww/h bP5trAbHb18ufhyx6cyMbSxUQH0A5sVvyo52vowRbuYr/bwDdsd8+uNZig4mgvN6Cjhu +xBA== X-Gm-Message-State: APzg51BE81vyydMoEDEE+2JaIK4t92P7gPOLX4zDG8RXEKj7Wgmy8TGF sbh/Fb5cLS1QVoMTOKjRbBMVQw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ANB0VdYGQUe/Ah+U8EDPcSVPfCP72NExQ84cRkA6hGdic0jdYEXPH2WZ9dSo+/IyjhfCuUeax+P7UQ== X-Received: by 2002:ac8:269b:: with SMTP id 27-v6mr13371212qto.281.1535655283792; Thu, 30 Aug 2018 11:54:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [172.16.0.18] ([96.231.225.148]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id l102-v6sm5098839qkh.72.2018.08.30.11.54.42 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 30 Aug 2018 11:54:43 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: Sean Turner In-Reply-To: <051f01d44086$639dac60$2ad90520$@augustcellars.com> Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2018 14:54:41 -0400 Cc: spasm@ietf.org, draft-ietf-anima-bootstrapping-keyinfra@ietf.org, Toerless Eckert , Jim Schaad Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <20180719212936.mroidiansyiurjra@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <20180723194623.7niwhsz4tnigwern@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <19312.1535640189@localhost> <051f01d44086$639dac60$2ad90520$@augustcellars.com> To: Michael Richardson X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [lamps] Renewing (short lived) certs with EST (RFC7030) [was: Re: Sean: Permissibility of expired cert renewal] X-BeenThere: spasm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: "This is a venue for discussion of doing Some Pkix And SMime \(spasm\) work." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2018 18:54:47 -0000 > On Aug 30, 2018, at 13:25, Jim Schaad wrote: >=20 > One of the issues that you need to make sure to include is that = revocation information must be kept by the EST server until the point in = time that the expired certificate would not be permitted to be used for = authentication. There is currently on a requirement that this = information be kept by the server until "the first CRL after the = certificate expired as been issued." =20 >=20 > Jim >=20 >=20 >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Spasm On Behalf Of Michael Richardson >> Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2018 7:43 AM >> To: Sean Turner >> Cc: spasm@ietf.org; draft-ietf-anima-bootstrapping-keyinfra@ietf.org; = Toerless >> Eckert >> Subject: Re: [lamps] Renewing (short lived) certs with EST (RFC7030) = [was: Re: >> Sean: Permissibility of expired cert renewal] >>=20 >>=20 >> Sean Turner wrote: >>>> Seems to leave 5280 as the existing doc standing in the way ? >>>> If so, how to most easily fix this ? >>=20 >>> I think what you=E2=80=99re after is an explicit statement that says = you=E2=80=99re >>> free to use an expired certificate to request a new certificate? If >>> you=E2=80=99re looking for that to be added to RFC 5280 I=E2=80=99d = say good luck >>> because it=E2=80=99s policy specific thing. >>=20 >> I think that what we want to do is write a Security Considerations = for renewing >> certificates using EST with an expired certificate as >> authentication. We need to outline what kinds of policy might be = required, >> and when it would be approrpriate not to accept specific = certificates, or when it >> might be appropriate to accept no expired certificates (perhaps for = an interval >> of time). Or just how old (as a percentage of cert life) is too old. >>=20 >> I think that the threat case here is that devices are inappropriately = disposed of >> (vulnerable to dumpster diving or ebay acquisition), with the = assumption that >> the credentials are old and do not need to be wiped. >> Probably there are other threat cases that I have not thought of, and = I think that >> the goal would be to write the threats down... ideally to give them = names. >>=20 >> -- >> Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works = - >> =3D IPv6 IoT consulting =3D- Mike, If you do that then I think you=E2=80=99ll be good to go. spt From nobody Thu Aug 30 14:18:54 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spasm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spasm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8D06130EC9; Thu, 30 Aug 2018 14:18:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OFR8cuVKIriQ; Thu, 30 Aug 2018 14:18:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3:216:3eff:fe7c:d1f3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 83605130E98; Thu, 30 Aug 2018 14:18:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6044020491; Thu, 30 Aug 2018 17:37:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: by sandelman.ca (Postfix, from userid 179) id BF765B32; Thu, 30 Aug 2018 17:18:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBE86FB; Thu, 30 Aug 2018 17:18:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: Sean Turner cc: spasm@ietf.org, draft-ietf-anima-bootstrapping-keyinfra@ietf.org, Toerless Eckert , Jim Schaad In-Reply-To: References: <20180719212936.mroidiansyiurjra@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <20180723194623.7niwhsz4tnigwern@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <19312.1535640189@localhost> <051f01d44086$639dac60$2ad90520$@augustcellars.com> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 24.5.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [lamps] Renewing (short lived) certs with EST (RFC7030) [was: Re: Sean: Permissibility of expired cert renewal] X-BeenThere: spasm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: "This is a venue for discussion of doing Some Pkix And SMime \(spasm\) work." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2018 21:18:53 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable mcr> I think that what we want to do is write a Security Considerations for= renewing mcr> certificates using EST with an expired certificate as mcr> authentication. We need to outline what kinds of policy might be re= quired, mcr> and when it would be approrpriate not to accept specific certificates,= or when it mcr> might be appropriate to accept no expired certificates (perhaps for an= interval mcr> of time). Or just how old (as a percentage of cert life) is too old. mcr> mcr> I think that the threat case here is that devices are inappropriately = disposed of mcr> (vulnerable to dumpster diving or ebay acquisition), with the assumpti= on that mcr> the credentials are old and do not need to be wiped. mcr> Probably there are other threat cases that I have not thought of, and = I think that mcr> the goal would be to write the threats down... ideally to give them na= mes. On Aug 30, 2018, at 13:25, Jim Schaad wrote: > One of the issues that you need to make sure to include is that revocation > information must be kept by the EST server until the point in time that t= he > expired certificate would not be permitted to be used for authentication. > There is currently on a requirement that this information be kept by the > server until "the first CRL after the certificate expired as been issued." That's a very good point. Sean Turner wrote: > Mike, > If you do that then I think you=E2=80=99ll be good to go. okay. Toerless, are we trying to put this into draft-ietf-anima-autonomic-control= -plane ? If so, I'll attempt to draft something that fits into that document. If it belongs somewhere else, then please tell me. =2D- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -=3D IPv6 IoT consulting =3D- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAluIXzgACgkQgItw+93Q 3WXacggAuZUsmL5RE8oYLy/JXvXcueWKnW7Tg0Xtg2Q7LjEMafe3HJfduO1yE5qW Xxz/TMGKdxLibUfAbvITep6FENAHpKoFBs6kGyDyOhhXS1ygSsjswWGJ8K5DyjcJ 0ECcCzmSzrxHc6WSb/KKmbuHOwMPPcPPj/4IEVGBr9qlffM8W641+rZpQ5gEgZtc Txwez2COA0f4BCNqYjDXJ3/CB+XSDqW2aGh5I4lQFPUXHHNXoCa1qL4q6WNxfp8o HpretvOajSKOf1zk0MP7uUPi2AdDF66u8HlhuK2lPO1RAroFLr7C7ByDMKvhzR4E JDBS/LKRMw+RKhZDZzCKKb1o0MSaNA== =88JS -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Fri Aug 31 01:26:39 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spasm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spasm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5054512D949 for ; Fri, 31 Aug 2018 01:26:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.001 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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Fri, 31 Aug 2018 08:26:30 +0000 From: Tim Hollebeek To: Tim Hollebeek , SPASM Thread-Topic: WG Last Call for draft-ietf-lamps-pkix-shake-02 Thread-Index: AdQrMxyLvSo0zqrPS4WOHlSRAXWuQAV0Jt4A Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2018 08:26:30 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [185.81.136.20] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; BN6PR14MB1842; 6:BYXrjFfqPJ41R24zYZkIQoEYBfGyk5djL88DsvO30fkTaHcLfgtrgqXdZx6MCKSJudpQvlyRFLkFXWOWHSyLM6bo7Z/TJb+xSgqJDb0lP6G96qukN6BFRcnhbLaYqulg+j22g0njJseGeB0Ij+fxvNQxv8Gph6dkJs7OIVP9pURuG/Zgn4hEbccV+eA8zjYxxLh7Hc63wXke6ZMrqNmQgB315RBz6gVVH1D2KEi5UW6PMlsfAO9xVhtWdjs4CcUCpRDlk3Q7Zmj/XNz12oJvju/NpPloY6Q+YQY+fd2OAgKM1U3t0GOJ+6meDeTpYJoNuIlxbuoyN02jndBqYH2J4pofoKwWFAxyeCUVb0FCq9uukOVWgAMG8ifPdjxlL8h5Y7fX/xsxjJ7+ImrD2lID0Hb+4qPLIdiFBBFvvcOpd1hmmR6uYoZnzY9MdX9ph0w69eaqqUsd21z+bczFZCKTEA==; 5:b+LDwmwcA9zc98ILnySKQ4pfB0ZwdC4f4PcxvtsnCugPngwzRqE5b6NCDbvr370MQTqWjtcpcf5bwELu0TdJrQFsr6ejWijCVZPWWG3siFamAaByHMSrjSFuOWg2OyvALccDhOjwgeiACq2SN2Yi/Mbl5sF+y5y+aPW/zHZuAjA=; 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protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=2.16.840.1.101.3.4.2.1; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0483_01D44115.088CC970" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: digicert.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 0ec0a279-e4e4-4b68-6a99-08d60f1b7433 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 31 Aug 2018 08:26:30.6353 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: cf813fa1-bde5-4e75-9479-f6aaa8b1f284 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN6PR14MB1842 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [lamps] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-lamps-pkix-shake-02 X-BeenThere: spasm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: "This is a venue for discussion of doing Some Pkix And SMime \(spasm\) work." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2018 08:26:37 -0000 ------=_NextPart_000_0483_01D44115.088CC970 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0484_01D44115.088CC970" ------=_NextPart_001_0484_01D44115.088CC970 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The comment period has expired, and one set of comments was received from Jim Schaad: https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spasm/QHmx93uRHR3257o5GR2X5YqsYyI Many of them appear valid and substantive, and I would ask the authors to address them before we forward the document to IESG. -Tim From: Spasm On Behalf Of Tim Hollebeek Sent: Friday, August 3, 2018 4:07 PM To: SPASM Subject: [lamps] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-lamps-pkix-shake-02 This is the LAMPS WG Last Call for "Internet X.509 Public Key Infrastructure: Additional Algorithm Identifiers for RSASSA-PSS and ECDSA using SHAKEs as Hash Functions" . Please review the document and send your comments to the list by 30 August 2018. If no concerns are raised, the document will be forwarded to the IESG with a request for publication as Proposed Standard. -Tim ------=_NextPart_001_0484_01D44115.088CC970 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

The comment period has expired, and one set of = comments was received from Jim Schaad:

 

https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spasm/QHmx93uRHR3257o5GR2X5= YqsYyI

 

Many of them appear valid and substantive, and I would = ask the authors to address them before we forward the document to = IESG.

 

-Tim

 

From: Spasm = <spasm-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Tim = Hollebeek
Sent: Friday, August 3, 2018 4:07 PM
To: = SPASM <spasm@ietf.org>
Subject: [lamps] WG Last Call for = draft-ietf-lamps-pkix-shake-02

 

 

This is = the LAMPS WG Last Call for "Internet X.509 Public Key = Infrastructure:

Additional = Algorithm Identifiers for RSASSA-PSS and ECDSA using SHAKEs as =

Hash Functions" = <draft-ietf-lamps-pkix-shake-02>.

 

Please = review the document and send your comments to the list by =

30 August 2018.

 

If no = concerns are raised, the document will be forwarded to the IESG = with

a request for publication as = Proposed Standard.

 

-Tim

 

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8dRrRP5oZb/5ME1T8H1vIqwqXDMA/IdwJek1Cm+4repkP7+7VqDzGlolshx5c6Dz9F8pHDY+1qQYn4cF5UdVthagsnWAgvTRfHhAoZliXM/AyCtbbxdV9ivhPyvIihmMsh9hRWnwTaGg8UaCRb6T70SXo8a6CN2IAhTDYjBc2S7YrGv7aFBUrxlvPJcmeLNbQXlag+qhcGJq3hrUJg3s175Lbati4dPzJNej4/hroQnHS8xQx6JeVN2wl5xHTJYWAP0+z632wAM6dPv1MFUT8eGAL2FSFFP2FWUnftOU4QBEHACZdlqJr1HV6lK745ujvRDtKqPxeD8OV52XSMyn+h9A9Wn2pqOJ9k9T5KrVYaA= spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=2.16.840.1.101.3.4.2.1; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_048B_01D44115.385EC2C0" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: digicert.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 8085a677-1ac5-41c6-2815-08d60f1bad49 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 31 Aug 2018 08:28:06.3548 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: cf813fa1-bde5-4e75-9479-f6aaa8b1f284 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN6PR14MB1554 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [lamps] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-lamps-cms-shakes-01 X-BeenThere: spasm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: "This is a venue for discussion of doing Some Pkix And SMime \(spasm\) work." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2018 08:28:13 -0000 ------=_NextPart_000_048B_01D44115.385EC2C0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_048C_01D44115.385EC2C0" ------=_NextPart_001_048C_01D44115.385EC2C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The comment period has expired, and one set of comments was received from Jim Schaad: https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spasm/oa79ouq5_YOrL0w93TW6HTDnBdE Many of them appear valid and substantive, and I would ask the authors to address them before we forward the document to IESG. -Tim From: Spasm On Behalf Of Tim Hollebeek Sent: Friday, August 3, 2018 4:08 PM To: SPASM Subject: [lamps] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-lamps-cms-shakes-01 This is the LAMPS WG Last Call for "Use of the SHAKE One-way Hash Functions in the Cryptographic Message Syntax (CMS) " . Please review the document and send your comments to the list by 30 August 2018. If no concerns are raised, the document will be forwarded to the IESG with a request for publication as Proposed Standard. -Tim ------=_NextPart_001_048C_01D44115.385EC2C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

The comment period has expired, and one set of = comments was received from Jim Schaad:

 

https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spasm/oa79ouq5_YOrL0w93TW6H= TDnBdE

 

Many of them appear valid and substantive, and I would = ask the authors to address them before we forward the document to = IESG.

 

-Tim

 

From: Spasm = <spasm-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Tim = Hollebeek
Sent: Friday, August 3, 2018 4:08 PM
To: = SPASM <spasm@ietf.org>
Subject: [lamps] WG Last Call for = draft-ietf-lamps-cms-shakes-01

 

 

This is = the LAMPS WG Last Call for "Use of the SHAKE One-way Hash Functions = in

the Cryptographic Message = Syntax (CMS) " = <draft-ietf-lamps-cms-shakes-01>.

 

Please = review the document and send your comments to the list by =

30 August 2018.

 

If no = concerns are raised, the document will be forwarded to the IESG = with

a request for publication as = Proposed Standard.

 

-Tim

 

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+Wnesw1sd3LOt0xLpp830NJfoJoKMx2imTsetx1WpoG28EwDG2ckOEL6Y38QxeJrFUO2bjUBFtN32UqcP/WHg97WnS5Gxn4gvoA/INQziLUZBcWN74gzG2drp7oit1Z/DVwyo+gsyjxkqnmhZNINGe2q3Debffgw34JaxxxzRaSwiyGx/MisUycVQi+hJpFOnH0M5Zc4rcWJAQ03AWJYFdNhz3Zf3Isr7xF9bo3TbRxfOX5hgksfm7l9tAGfq+GzQFrNSMNgWSiJrsiBKSHQuE7AtrtSjV5IXSZOMirigJ+uLJQyCNcTR0ASQuwy8lf9kbt1wzSU2ANX9+6jAUMbUvzboElq1bUi1pEmhDJiw8M= spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=2.16.840.1.101.3.4.2.1; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_04E5_01D4411B.BA175240" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: digicert.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 1f8aa27a-98ac-4b52-52f0-08d60f221ec5 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 31 Aug 2018 09:14:13.7145 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: cf813fa1-bde5-4e75-9479-f6aaa8b1f284 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN6PR14MB1124 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [lamps] Call for adoption of draft-housley-hash-of-root-key-cert-extn X-BeenThere: spasm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: "This is a venue for discussion of doing Some Pkix And SMime \(spasm\) work." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2018 09:14:20 -0000 ------=_NextPart_000_04E5_01D4411B.BA175240 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_04E6_01D4411B.BA175240" ------=_NextPart_001_04E6_01D4411B.BA175240 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Apologies for the fact that the summer holidays caused this discussion to last longer than was intended; the consensus on the list appears to support adoption of this draft as the starting point for this work. -Tim From: Spasm On Behalf Of Tim Hollebeek Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2018 6:04 PM To: SPASM Subject: [lamps] Call for adoption of draft-housley-hash-of-root-key-cert-extn The recently approved LAMPS WG Charter adds this work item: 6. Specifies a certificate extension that is carried in a self-signed certificate for a trust anchor, which is often called a Root Certification Authority (CA) certificate, to identify the next public key that will be used by the trust anchor. It has been suggested that the WG adopt draft-housley-hash-of-root-key-cert-extn as the starting point for this work. Since Russ Housley is the author of this draft, Tim Hollebeek will judge consensus for this discussion. Please voice your support or concerns on the list. ------=_NextPart_001_04E6_01D4411B.BA175240 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Apologies for the fact that the summer holidays caused = this discussion to last longer than was intended; the consensus on the = list appears to support adoption of this draft as the starting point for = this work.

 

-Tim

 

From: Spasm = <spasm-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Tim = Hollebeek
Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2018 6:04 PM
To: = SPASM <spasm@ietf.org>
Subject: [lamps] Call for = adoption of = draft-housley-hash-of-root-key-cert-extn

 

The = recently approved LAMPS WG Charter adds this work item:

 

6. = Specifies a certificate extension that is carried in a self-signed = certificate for a trust anchor, which is often called a Root = Certification Authority (CA) certificate, to identify the next public = key that will be used by the trust anchor.

 

It has = been suggested that the WG adopt = draft-housley-hash-of-root-key-cert-extn as the starting point for this = work.  Since Russ Housley is the author of this draft, Tim = Hollebeek will judge consensus for this discussion.  Please voice = your support or concerns on the list.

 

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8JE9MYW/G1fjKAVvQVTO2Y+ZOdFyXYGZJlnNDCU4Bed3GtrNgYM/SGjZKafeWXxjMJdsGww+QKXcZdEBK/2xyWR9rupKVsryp9Ew0YrNkJ6OiCVBWZtB8nNFHBTxt+6bfUg6WAM1Wpg/kNifGYMB/JXGruikiwHREYgT+FUtHUzTcu92FK4MI3jAWR0P8NR5Ln5BjniHsSghyXGUeA5to1raTtiJN0m5qmPdXGOAjzAd/a5NnvcW+dCIkXI8i17GcmTlNu/7Jm7GL6ctyIz5iVMwE9ukdh6XApPbSXOmbhmBaF4+Kv/eRd92FZZ0NGoQwvrimpl69u8LcLaHfEUkEYY1RJOKbx9oKMTUT9Itpuo= spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=2.16.840.1.101.3.4.2.1; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_04ED_01D4411B.CDD1FB00" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: digicert.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 7334afad-debc-43d0-0b68-08d60f2232b4 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 31 Aug 2018 09:14:47.2057 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: cf813fa1-bde5-4e75-9479-f6aaa8b1f284 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN6PR14MB1124 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [lamps] Call for adoption of draft-housley-cms-mts-hash-sig X-BeenThere: spasm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: "This is a venue for discussion of doing Some Pkix And SMime \(spasm\) work." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2018 09:14:53 -0000 ------=_NextPart_000_04ED_01D4411B.CDD1FB00 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_04EE_01D4411B.CDD1FB00" ------=_NextPart_001_04EE_01D4411B.CDD1FB00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Apologies for the fact that the summer holidays caused this discussion to last longer than was intended; the consensus on the list appears to support adoption of this draft as the starting point for this work. -Tim From: Spasm On Behalf Of Tim Hollebeek Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2018 6:03 PM To: SPASM Subject: [lamps] Call for adoption of draft-housley-cms-mts-hash-sig The recently approved LAMPS WG Charter adds this work item: 5. Specify the use of hash-based signatures with the Cryptographic Message Syntax (CMS). Hash-based signature use small private and public keys, and they have low computational cost; however, the signature values are quite large. For this reason they might not be used for signing X.509 certificates or S/MIME messages; however, sine hash-based signature algorithms are secure even if a large-scale quantum computer is invented. The low computational cost for signature verification makes hash-based signatures attractive in the Internet of Things environments, and the quantum resistance makes them attractive for the distribution of software updates. It has been suggested that the WG adopt draft-housley-cms-mts-hash-sig as the starting point for this work. Since Russ Housley is the author of this draft, Tim Hollebeek will judge consensus for this discussion. Please voice your support or concerns on the list. ------=_NextPart_001_04EE_01D4411B.CDD1FB00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Apologies for the fact that the summer holidays caused = this discussion to last longer than was intended; the consensus on the = list appears to support adoption of this draft as the starting point for = this work.

 

-Tim

 

From: Spasm = <spasm-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Tim = Hollebeek
Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2018 6:03 PM
To: = SPASM <spasm@ietf.org>
Subject: [lamps] Call for = adoption of draft-housley-cms-mts-hash-sig

 

The = recently approved LAMPS WG Charter adds this work item:

 

5. = Specify the use of hash-based signatures with the Cryptographic Message = Syntax (CMS).  Hash-based signature use small private and public = keys, and they have low computational cost; however, the signature = values are quite large.  For this reason they might not be used for = signing X.509 certificates or S/MIME messages; however, sine hash-based = signature algorithms are secure even if a large-scale quantum computer = is invented.  The low computational cost for signature verification = makes hash-based signatures attractive in the Internet of Things = environments, and the quantum resistance makes them attractive for the = distribution of software updates.

 

It has = been suggested that the WG adopt draft-housley-cms-mts-hash-sig as the = starting point for this work.  Since Russ Housley is the author of = this draft, Tim Hollebeek will judge consensus for this = discussion.  Please voice your support or concerns on the = list.

 

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N1y8VV/KD801K80SLEBhRRF8V9XdYrIJj7EczYCH9Pn09zspYV5IyP3RCay+k6rI5aFQdJkd/wVnQx/TA0Ow/vLsjU2g/6OLwY6E8zfpQwkOwaD41aXUFWs8CWuC80Gj+47Of75W3EQ2VI8bd9K3VUg6oM+XKji0OdIbrX4I9LSlPudlHjeOnBGiCosXSfPMnr7A4kJVgGvKPYVeWInykJDm9lFwn9Jw1lwOw1TYAt2oB1sYUJNeGE5AkqGWaoIdh9e4jEBfWroJTqJHZc28rcmY4xVYaUBEDdjkaZLr1CKQWZwq1O4rI88SLFLtG0w2yncY/KIVEHBDNDbcWFG7puKxP8zPSBtbA3JuRIUV14M= spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_DM6PR09MB27464A6F29D87D18DA9BE71DF30F0DM6PR09MB2746namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: nist.gov X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 070796ed-605c-44c7-c46c-08d60f3445fb X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 31 Aug 2018 11:24:10.5677 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 2ab5d82f-d8fa-4797-a93e-054655c61dec X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DM6PR09MB2746 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [lamps] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-lamps-pkix-shake-02 X-BeenThere: spasm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: "This is a venue for discussion of doing Some Pkix And SMime \(spasm\) work." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2018 11:24:14 -0000 --_000_DM6PR09MB27464A6F29D87D18DA9BE71DF30F0DM6PR09MB2746namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Tim, We will address those valuable comments in the next version. Regards, Quynh. ________________________________ From: Spasm on behalf of Tim Hollebeek Sent: Friday, August 31, 2018 4:26:30 AM To: Tim Hollebeek; SPASM Subject: Re: [lamps] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-lamps-pkix-shake-02 The comment period has expired, and one set of comments was received from J= im Schaad: https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spasm/QHmx93uRHR3257o5GR2X5YqsYyI Many of them appear valid and substantive, and I would ask the authors to a= ddress them before we forward the document to IESG. -Tim From: Spasm On Behalf Of Tim Hollebeek Sent: Friday, August 3, 2018 4:07 PM To: SPASM Subject: [lamps] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-lamps-pkix-shake-02 This is the LAMPS WG Last Call for "Internet X.509 Public Key Infrastructur= e: Additional Algorithm Identifiers for RSASSA-PSS and ECDSA using SHAKEs as Hash Functions" . Please review the document and send your comments to the list by 30 August 2018. If no concerns are raised, the document will be forwarded to the IESG with a request for publication as Proposed Standard. -Tim --_000_DM6PR09MB27464A6F29D87D18DA9BE71DF30F0DM6PR09MB2746namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Tim,


We will address those valuable co= mments in the next version.


Regards,

Quynh.

From: Spasm <spasm-bounc= es@ietf.org> on behalf of Tim Hollebeek <tim.hollebeek@digicert.com&g= t;
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2018 4:26:30 AM
To: Tim Hollebeek; SPASM
Subject: Re: [lamps] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-lamps-pkix-shake-02=
 

The comment period has expired, and one set of com= ments was received from Jim Schaad:

 

https://mailarchive= .ietf.org/arch/msg/spasm/QHmx93uRHR3257o5GR2X5YqsYyI

 

Many of them appear valid and substantive, and I w= ould ask the authors to address them before we forward the document to IESG= .

 

-Tim

 

From: Spasm <spasm-bounces@ietf.org> = On Behalf Of Tim Hollebeek
Sent: Friday, August 3, 2018 4:07 PM
To: SPASM <spasm@ietf.org>
Subject: [lamps] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-lamps-pkix-shake-02

 

 

This is the LAMPS WG Last Call for "Intern= et X.509 Public Key Infrastructure:

Additional Algorithm Identifiers for RSASSA-PSS= and ECDSA using SHAKEs as

Hash Functions" <draft-ietf-lamps-pkix-= shake-02>.

 

Please review the document and send your commen= ts to the list by

30 August 2018.

 

If no concerns are raised, the document will be fo= rwarded to the IESG with

a request for publication as Proposed Standard.

 

-Tim

 

--_000_DM6PR09MB27464A6F29D87D18DA9BE71DF30F0DM6PR09MB2746namp_-- From nobody Fri Aug 31 04:24:38 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spasm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spasm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A65C2130E2C for ; Fri, 31 Aug 2018 04:24:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.021 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.021 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTTPS_HTTP_MISMATCH=1.989, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nist.gov Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VE1uFjnOgqNl for ; Fri, 31 Aug 2018 04:24:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from GCC01-CY1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-cy1gcc01on0107.outbound.protection.outlook.com [23.103.200.107]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3E5BD1277D2 for ; 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boundary="_000_DM6PR09MB2746E5B0893F7764BE04646DF30F0DM6PR09MB2746namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: nist.gov X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: fbbd4af5-280e-448c-909d-08d60f345348 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 31 Aug 2018 11:24:32.8753 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 2ab5d82f-d8fa-4797-a93e-054655c61dec X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DM6PR09MB2746 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [lamps] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-lamps-cms-shakes-01 X-BeenThere: spasm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: "This is a venue for discussion of doing Some Pkix And SMime \(spasm\) work." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2018 11:24:37 -0000 --_000_DM6PR09MB2746E5B0893F7764BE04646DF30F0DM6PR09MB2746namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Tim, We will address those valuable comments in the next version. Regards, Quynh. ________________________________ From: Spasm on behalf of Tim Hollebeek Sent: Friday, August 31, 2018 4:28:06 AM To: Tim Hollebeek; SPASM Subject: Re: [lamps] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-lamps-cms-shakes-01 The comment period has expired, and one set of comments was received from J= im Schaad: https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spasm/oa79ouq5_YOrL0w93TW6HTDnBdE Many of them appear valid and substantive, and I would ask the authors to a= ddress them before we forward the document to IESG. -Tim From: Spasm On Behalf Of Tim Hollebeek Sent: Friday, August 3, 2018 4:08 PM To: SPASM Subject: [lamps] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-lamps-cms-shakes-01 This is the LAMPS WG Last Call for "Use of the SHAKE One-way Hash Functions= in the Cryptographic Message Syntax (CMS) " . Please review the document and send your comments to the list by 30 August 2018. If no concerns are raised, the document will be forwarded to the IESG with a request for publication as Proposed Standard. -Tim --_000_DM6PR09MB2746E5B0893F7764BE04646DF30F0DM6PR09MB2746namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Tim,


We will address those valuable co= mments in the next version.


Regards,

Quynh.

From: Spasm <spasm-bounc= es@ietf.org> on behalf of Tim Hollebeek <tim.hollebeek@digicert.com&g= t;
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2018 4:28:06 AM
To: Tim Hollebeek; SPASM
Subject: Re: [lamps] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-lamps-cms-shakes-01=
 

The comment period has expired, and one set of com= ments was received from Jim Schaad:

 

https://mailarc= hive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spasm/oa79ouq5_YOrL0w93TW6HTDnBdE

 

Many of them appear valid and substantive, and I w= ould ask the authors to address them before we forward the document to IESG= .

 

-Tim

 

From: Spasm <spasm-bounces@ietf.org> = On Behalf Of Tim Hollebeek
Sent: Friday, August 3, 2018 4:08 PM
To: SPASM <spasm@ietf.org>
Subject: [lamps] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-lamps-cms-shakes-01

 

 

This is the LAMPS WG Last Call for "Use of= the SHAKE One-way Hash Functions in

the Cryptographic Message Syntax (CMS) " &= lt;draft-ietf-lamps-cms-shakes-01>.

 

Please review the document and send your commen= ts to the list by

30 August 2018.

 

If no concerns are raised, the document will be fo= rwarded to the IESG with

a request for publication as Proposed Standard.

 

-Tim

 

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