
From nobody Tue Jan  6 17:54:05 2015
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Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2015 10:57:03 +0900
From: Kohei Shiomoto <shiomoto.kohei@lab.ntt.co.jp>
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Subject: [spring] Call for Presentation: iPOP 2015
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[Apologies, if you receive multiple copies of this CFP]
---------------------------------------
Call for Presentation

11th International Conference on IP + Optical Network (iPOP 2015) April 
20-22, 2015 Okinawa Jichikaikan, Naha Okinawa Japan 
http://www.pilab.jp/ipop2015/

Important Dates:
Submission deadline of one-page abstract: January 16, 2015 Notification 
of acceptance: February 23, 2015 Submission deadline of final 
presentation slides: March 13, 2015

Following the successful events of iPOP, the 11th Conference on 
IP+Optical Network (iPOP 2015) will be held at Okinawa Jichikaikan, Naha 
Okinawa Japan, April 20-22, 2015.
The conference has been provided opportunities for both of the industry 
and the academia to share their knowledge, new findings, and experiences 
on the state-of-the-art IP and optical networking technologies for these 
ten years.

The Technical Program Committee for iPOP 2015 is soliciting presentation 
proposals for this conference. Architecture and protocol designs, 
experiments/PoCs/field trials, theories/algorithms, implementations, and 
operational experiences are solicited.
The topics of the conference will include but not be limited to the 
following:
* Control plane (MPLS/GMPLS, OpenFlow, etc)
* SDN for packet and optical transport networks
* MLN (Multi-Layer Network), MRN (Multi-Region Network)
* TE (Traffic Engineering), PCE (Path Computation Element)
* Network abstraction/virtualization
* Flex-grid, elastic optical networks
* Optical networking/switching for cloud services
* Data center and WAN orchestration
* Carrier Ethernet and MPLS-TP for backhauling
* Service function chaining for mobile networks
* Security
* QoS (Quality of Service)/QoE (Quality of Experience)
* Network operation and management
* Standardization/interoperability
* Open Source Software (OSS) for SDN/NFV
* DevOps

Submit an extended abstract (400 words, 1 page), including figures and 
diagrams, speaker’s name, affiliation, and contact information, to the 
Technical Program Committee: ipop2015-cfp@pilab.jp.

Please see http://www.pilab.jp/ipop2015/ for more details.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

-- 
Kohei Shiomoto, Ph.D
Senior Manager, Communication Traffic & Service Quality Project
NTT Network Technology Laboratories
NIPPON TELEGRAPH AND TELEPHONE CORPORATION
TEL +81-422-59-4402   FAX +81-422-59-6364


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From: <stephane.litkowski@orange.com>
To: DECRAENE Bruno IMT/OLN <bruno.decraene@orange.com>, Rob Shakir <rjs@rob.sh>
Thread-Topic: [OSPF] [Isis-wg] Mail regarding draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions
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Subject: Re: [spring] [OSPF] [Isis-wg] Mail regarding draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions
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Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2015 10:41:03 +0000
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References: <D0CF6C5B.1B6DD%psarkar@juniper.net> <F3ADE4747C9E124B89F0ED2180CC814F4EEA26EF@xmb-aln-x02.cisco.com> <D0D00E58.1B720%psarkar@juniper.net> <F3ADE4747C9E124B89F0ED2180CC814F4EEA29A2@xmb-aln-x02.cisco.com> <D0D02765.1B76C%psarkar@juniper.net> <F3ADE4747C9E124B89F0ED2180CC814F4EEA2A4F@xmb-aln-x02.cisco.com> <BY1PR0501MB13812B36C2020C3AC3072641D5580@BY1PR0501MB1381.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <F3ADE4747C9E124B89F0ED2180CC814F4EEA4F1A@xmb-aln-x02.cisco.com> <28823_1420641858_54AD4642_28823_8441_1_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF920C765C15@OPEXCLILM34.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <1868F3A4-A4E2-4504-A749-582305FA31B4@rob.sh> <18651_1421050415_54B3822F_18651_14831_1_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF920C76D265@OPEXCLILM34.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A0EB01975@PEXCVZYM11.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF920C76D353@OPEXCLILM34.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup>
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Subject: Re: [spring] [OSPF] [Isis-wg] Mail regarding draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions
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From: "Henderickx, Wim (Wim)" <wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com>
To: "stephane.litkowski@orange.com" <stephane.litkowski@orange.com>, "DECRAENE Bruno IMT/OLN" <bruno.decraene@orange.com>, Rob Shakir <rjs@rob.sh>
Thread-Topic: [OSPF] [Isis-wg] Mail regarding draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions
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Subject: Re: [spring] [OSPF] [Isis-wg] Mail regarding draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions
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From nobody Mon Jan 12 02:54:13 2015
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From: <stephane.litkowski@orange.com>
To: "Henderickx, Wim (Wim)" <wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com>, "DECRAENE Bruno IMT/OLN" <bruno.decraene@orange.com>, Rob Shakir <rjs@rob.sh>
Thread-Topic: [OSPF] [Isis-wg] Mail regarding draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions
Thread-Index: AQHQLj+0j2sJEH9jtEOO53PZE7xVypy8G+CAgAARysCAAA6RgIAAErTw
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2015 10:53:40 +0000
Message-ID: <13987_1421060024_54B3A7B8_13987_19542_1_3b33983a-7671-4df1-a1ac-52b83d8162a0@OPEXCLILH02.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup>
References: <D0CF6C5B.1B6DD%psarkar@juniper.net> <F3ADE4747C9E124B89F0ED2180CC814F4EEA26EF@xmb-aln-x02.cisco.com> <D0D00E58.1B720%psarkar@juniper.net> <F3ADE4747C9E124B89F0ED2180CC814F4EEA29A2@xmb-aln-x02.cisco.com> <D0D02765.1B76C%psarkar@juniper.net> <F3ADE4747C9E124B89F0ED2180CC814F4EEA2A4F@xmb-aln-x02.cisco.com> <BY1PR0501MB13812B36C2020C3AC3072641D5580@BY1PR0501MB1381.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <F3ADE4747C9E124B89F0ED2180CC814F4EEA4F1A@xmb-aln-x02.cisco.com> <28823_1420641858_54AD4642_28823_8441_1_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF920C765C15@OPEXCLILM34.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <1868F3A4-A4E2-4504-A749-582305FA31B4@rob.sh> <18651_1421050415_54B3822F_18651_14831_1_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF920C76D265@OPEXCLILM34.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A0EB01975@PEXCVZYM11.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <21149_1421052896_54B38BE0_21149_1085_1_86923dca-49c3-4745-881c-116ec27cb9f2@OPEXCLILH02.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <D0D9633B.11A80B%wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com>
In-Reply-To: <D0D9633B.11A80B%wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com>
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Cc: "ospf@ietf.org" <ospf@ietf.org>, "spring@ietf.org" <spring@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions@tools.ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions@tools.ietf.org>, "isis-wg@ietf.org" <isis-wg@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions@tools.ietf.org" <draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions@tools.ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [spring] [OSPF] [Isis-wg] Mail regarding draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions
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From: "Henderickx, Wim (Wim)" <wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com>
To: "stephane.litkowski@orange.com" <stephane.litkowski@orange.com>, "DECRAENE Bruno IMT/OLN" <bruno.decraene@orange.com>, Rob Shakir <rjs@rob.sh>
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Subject: Re: [spring] Providing unprotected SPRING TE path
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Hi Stephane,

Thanks for kicking off this discussion =E2=80=94 it=E2=80=99s one that =
we have had a few conversations around.

> On 12 Jan 2015, at 08:18, stephane.litkowski@orange.com wrote:
>=20
> [=E2=80=A6 snip =E2=80=A6]
>=20
> Now, as I explained, IMO, it's possible to introduce end to end OAM on =
top on the SRTE to bring the LSP down as soon as there s something wrong =
on the path. A Holddown timer can be used to keep LSP down until =
convergence happens at Ingress or Controller. But introducing such OAM =
and holddown and coupled with relations with IGP may also be complex and =
there is a chance that it does not solve the issue. In case of protected =
NodeSID used, OAM will not work, because switchover time will be too =
small. Using OAM , defacto requires path with no protection.
> So unprotected SID+OAM may solve the use at the price of some =
complexity and possibly not solving 100% of the cases.

I agree here - either the switchover time is very small, and hence we =
cannot detect anything with connectivity verification OAM, and doing =
anything that measures the performance does not guarantee that we have =
strict affinity to the original path (the post-convergence and =
protection paths may be within the same performance constraints). So, =
no-protection and OAM is not a good way to ensure that we have strict =
affinity.

>=20
> To conclude :
> We need to solve this use case and we need to find another elegant, =
simple and scalable solution for this.
>=20
> Possible existing solutions :
> - Use Adj-SID only =3D> does not sounds good as there will be an =
impact of stack depth =3D> Path compression necessary

Stack compression is only really required today because we have hardware =
that has never needed the stack depths that we=E2=80=99re talking about =
currently. Going forward, if SPRING-TE/SR-TE/AdjSID stacks are popular =
as a solution, then I see no reason that we MUST always have path =
compression. It is simply that this isn=E2=80=99t a dimension that =
we=E2=80=99ve asked our hardware colleagues to optimise for currently =
IMHO. I=E2=80=99m interested if you=E2=80=99ve a different view?

> - Use binding TLV and create some new Node-SID corresponding to a set =
of Adj-SID =3D> This introduces more states within the network (how many =
?)

How many is a question that depends on the network, and the constraints =
that one places - since this tells you what the AdjSID stack size can =
be. In some cases, it can be worse than the network diameter, because =
the constraints may require it. To this end, we can do some analysis to =
see whether we can determine the number of Binding-TLVs that are going =
to be required, and then subsequently, figure out how such SID-expansion =
bindings are created (by PCE, manually by operator?)...

> - Anything else ?

Nothing else comes to mind from me at the moment. Would be interested to =
hear whether there are other views within the WG.

r.

>=20
> Best regards,
>=20
> Stephane
>=20
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rob Shakir [mailto:rjs@rob.sh]
> Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2015 10:52
> To: LITKOWSKI Stephane SCE/IBNF
> Cc: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg); Shraddha Hegde; Pushpasis Sarkar; Peter =
Psenak (ppsenak); =
draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions@tools.ietf.org; =
draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions@tools.ietf.org; Hannes =
Gredler; ospf@ietf.org; isis-wg@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [Isis-wg] [OSPF] Mail regarding =
draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions
>=20
> Stephane,
>=20
> If we think about the =E2=80=9CMUST NOT be protected=E2=80=9D case =
that you mention. Let=E2=80=99s assume that we have a service that is =
performance sensitive, such that we want to take a particular path =
through the network - and that we use Node-SIDs like you say.
>=20
> If we assume that the requirement is for A-B-C-D-E path below. The =
node SID for E points via C-D-E and hence is used for stack compression =
like you say:
>=20
>      A -- B -- C -- D -- E
>                |        /
>                --- Q ---
>=20
> In your envisaged behaviour, C does not protect the Node-SID for E. In =
the case of the C-D link failure, then the =E2=80=9Cpreferred=E2=80=9D =
behaviour is that C now drops traffic towards this destination. However, =
C does not remove the FIB entry for the Node-SID for E, it=E2=80=99s =
actually just now known via Q. At this point, A can forward with exactly =
the same stack, and the packet takes a new A-B-C-Q-E path, which is =
non-conformant with the performance requirement of the service.
>=20
> In terms of what C does with its FIB, does it simply not use C-Q-E =
during the failure, but post-reconvergence use it anyway? If so, why not =
use C-Q-E during the failure - because the service is always going to =
non-conformant to the performance requirement?
>=20
> With an Adj-SID, it makes sense, because essentially unless that =
adjacency is available, then there is no alternate path for the SID that =
will be taken - so traffic never hits a non-conformant path.
>=20
> Practically, if I can=E2=80=99t tell a customer that the path taken =
will definitely be A-B-C-D-E, and it may rather go via C-Q-E at some =
point following convergence [until the head-end calculates that such a =
change had happened - either a link outage, or a metric change - and =
stops using the label stack], then there=E2=80=99s little problem of =
having the traffic go via C-Q-E during protection.
>=20
> For the disjoint case, the consideration that one has to make is:
> 	* are alternative SPF paths for a particular Node-SID actually =
still conformant with the disjointness requirement? How many =
simultaneous failures does one require to violate constraints. For =
example, in a dual-plane core network, then if the requirement is =
disjointness at the IP level, then we may need to lose connectivity =
entirely within the plane before it is preferable to =E2=80=9Chop=E2=80=9D=
 to another plane. In this case, using an alternative SPF path for the =
Node-SID is actually not a problem for disjointness.
> 	* does the application prefer losing an entire path to having =
some risk of the services being shared fate until the re-optimisation?=20=

>=20
> =46rom the work that we=E2=80=99ve looked at thus far, I have not yet =
seen a case where I absolutely MUST NOT use an alternate shortest path =
for a Node-SID and hence don=E2=80=99t require protection at a practical =
level.
>=20
> Stack depth is definitely going to be something that we need to =
consider - to me, where we have centralised controller - actions such as =
dynamically created forwarding-adjacency LSPs which allow =
=E2=80=9Cexpansion=E2=80=9D of one segment into a set of segments within =
the path are attractive as a solution where one needs to have explicit =
routing of traffic for TE purposes.=20
>=20
> Does this make sense, or do you see the use case that we=E2=80=99re =
addressing here differently?
>=20
> Cheers,
> r.
>=20
>=20
>> On 7 Jan 2015, at 09:44, stephane.litkowski@orange.com wrote:
>>=20
>> Hi,
>>=20
>> I'm coming into this long thread and I tried to read all the exchange=20=

>> but I may be missed some lines :)
>>=20
>> But here is my opinion on this subject.
>> I think the point from Shradda is valuable in case of Traffic =
Engineering with Segment Routing, especially with a central controller.
>>=20
>> Today in TE networks, we are selling some disjoints paths to customer =
that MUST NOT be protected (SDH like services). It would be good to =
reproduce the same thing with SR-TE.
>>=20
>> Now, current encoding permits to advertise that a specific Adj-SID is =
protected or not (as already mentioned, this does not say that a =
protection really exists ..., in case of LFA protection , there may be =
no FRR path for this adj-SID despite of the protection flag set).
>> We pretty know that it would not be possible in all case to use only =
Adj-SID for a TE tunnel (due to label stack depth), so we need to =
introduce stack compression using SPT segments and node-SID.
>> So to reply on Rob's comment, on RSVP-TE tunnels with looses hops =
that does not request protection : yes for RSVP, it does not make sense =
to me, but for SR, due to stack compression, it will be needed.
>>=20
>> If we look at a network, where TE is managed by a central controller, =
how the controller can ensure that the node-SID used is protected or not =
(as for Adj-SID, I mean protection requested, not protection installed). =
I see two ways :
>> 	* Use two SIDs attached to the same prefix and add a flag to =
prevent automatically all nodes to compute a protection for one of the =
SID. The flag does not really force nodes to compute a protection. Each =
node will still require local configuration for protection, but the flag =
will permit to exclude some prefixes for protection (overriding local =
policy).
>>=20
>> 	* Use two prefixes on each node , prefixes are marked with tags =
(admin-tags) : "protection tag" and "non protection tag". Each router is =
configured using LFA policies to not compute protection for prefixes =
having "non protection tag" AND add knowledge to the controller to use =
only "non protection tag" prefixes to compress non protected path.
>>=20
>>=20
>> Best Regards,
>>=20
>> Stephane
>>=20
>=20
> =
__________________________________________________________________________=
_______________________________________________
>=20
> Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations =
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>=20
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From: Rob Shakir <rjs@rob.sh>
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Subject: Re: [spring] Providing unprotected SPRING TE path
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Apologies, someone pointed out an error in my email =E2=80=94 thanks!

> On 13 Jan 2015, at 13:33, Rob Shakir <rjs@rob.sh> wrote:
>=20
> Hi Stephane,
>=20
> Thanks for kicking off this discussion =E2=80=94 it=E2=80=99s one that =
we have had a few conversations around.
>=20
>> On 12 Jan 2015, at 08:18, stephane.litkowski@orange.com wrote:
>>=20
>> [=E2=80=A6 snip =E2=80=A6]
>>=20
>> Now, as I explained, IMO, it's possible to introduce end to end OAM =
on top on the SRTE to bring the LSP down as soon as there s something =
wrong on the path. A Holddown timer can be used to keep LSP down until =
convergence happens at Ingress or Controller. But introducing such OAM =
and holddown and coupled with relations with IGP may also be complex and =
there is a chance that it does not solve the issue. In case of protected =
NodeSID used, OAM will not work, because switchover time will be too =
small. Using OAM , defacto requires path with no protection.
>> So unprotected SID+OAM may solve the use at the price of some =
complexity and possibly not solving 100% of the cases.
>=20
> I agree here

Apologies, I disagree that SID+OAM is a reasonable solution here.

r.

> - either the switchover time is very small, and hence we cannot detect =
anything with connectivity verification OAM, and doing anything that =
measures the performance does not guarantee that we have strict affinity =
to the original path (the post-convergence and protection paths may be =
within the same performance constraints). So, no-protection and OAM is =
not a good way to ensure that we have strict affinity.
>=20
>>=20
>> To conclude :
>> We need to solve this use case and we need to find another elegant, =
simple and scalable solution for this.
>>=20
>> Possible existing solutions :
>> - Use Adj-SID only =3D> does not sounds good as there will be an =
impact of stack depth =3D> Path compression necessary
>=20
> Stack compression is only really required today because we have =
hardware that has never needed the stack depths that we=E2=80=99re =
talking about currently. Going forward, if SPRING-TE/SR-TE/AdjSID stacks =
are popular as a solution, then I see no reason that we MUST always have =
path compression. It is simply that this isn=E2=80=99t a dimension that =
we=E2=80=99ve asked our hardware colleagues to optimise for currently =
IMHO. I=E2=80=99m interested if you=E2=80=99ve a different view?
>=20
>> - Use binding TLV and create some new Node-SID corresponding to a set =
of Adj-SID =3D> This introduces more states within the network (how many =
?)
>=20
> How many is a question that depends on the network, and the =
constraints that one places - since this tells you what the AdjSID stack =
size can be. In some cases, it can be worse than the network diameter, =
because the constraints may require it. To this end, we can do some =
analysis to see whether we can determine the number of Binding-TLVs that =
are going to be required, and then subsequently, figure out how such =
SID-expansion bindings are created (by PCE, manually by operator?)...
>=20
>> - Anything else ?
>=20
> Nothing else comes to mind from me at the moment. Would be interested =
to hear whether there are other views within the WG.
>=20
> r.
>=20
>>=20
>> Best regards,
>>=20
>> Stephane
>>=20
>>=20
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Rob Shakir [mailto:rjs@rob.sh]
>> Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2015 10:52
>> To: LITKOWSKI Stephane SCE/IBNF
>> Cc: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg); Shraddha Hegde; Pushpasis Sarkar; Peter =
Psenak (ppsenak); =
draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions@tools.ietf.org; =
draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions@tools.ietf.org; Hannes =
Gredler; ospf@ietf.org; isis-wg@ietf.org
>> Subject: Re: [Isis-wg] [OSPF] Mail regarding =
draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions
>>=20
>> Stephane,
>>=20
>> If we think about the =E2=80=9CMUST NOT be protected=E2=80=9D case =
that you mention. Let=E2=80=99s assume that we have a service that is =
performance sensitive, such that we want to take a particular path =
through the network - and that we use Node-SIDs like you say.
>>=20
>> If we assume that the requirement is for A-B-C-D-E path below. The =
node SID for E points via C-D-E and hence is used for stack compression =
like you say:
>>=20
>>     A -- B -- C -- D -- E
>>               |        /
>>               --- Q ---
>>=20
>> In your envisaged behaviour, C does not protect the Node-SID for E. =
In the case of the C-D link failure, then the =E2=80=9Cpreferred=E2=80=9D =
behaviour is that C now drops traffic towards this destination. However, =
C does not remove the FIB entry for the Node-SID for E, it=E2=80=99s =
actually just now known via Q. At this point, A can forward with exactly =
the same stack, and the packet takes a new A-B-C-Q-E path, which is =
non-conformant with the performance requirement of the service.
>>=20
>> In terms of what C does with its FIB, does it simply not use C-Q-E =
during the failure, but post-reconvergence use it anyway? If so, why not =
use C-Q-E during the failure - because the service is always going to =
non-conformant to the performance requirement?
>>=20
>> With an Adj-SID, it makes sense, because essentially unless that =
adjacency is available, then there is no alternate path for the SID that =
will be taken - so traffic never hits a non-conformant path.
>>=20
>> Practically, if I can=E2=80=99t tell a customer that the path taken =
will definitely be A-B-C-D-E, and it may rather go via C-Q-E at some =
point following convergence [until the head-end calculates that such a =
change had happened - either a link outage, or a metric change - and =
stops using the label stack], then there=E2=80=99s little problem of =
having the traffic go via C-Q-E during protection.
>>=20
>> For the disjoint case, the consideration that one has to make is:
>> 	* are alternative SPF paths for a particular Node-SID actually =
still conformant with the disjointness requirement? How many =
simultaneous failures does one require to violate constraints. For =
example, in a dual-plane core network, then if the requirement is =
disjointness at the IP level, then we may need to lose connectivity =
entirely within the plane before it is preferable to =E2=80=9Chop=E2=80=9D=
 to another plane. In this case, using an alternative SPF path for the =
Node-SID is actually not a problem for disjointness.
>> 	* does the application prefer losing an entire path to having =
some risk of the services being shared fate until the re-optimisation?=20=

>>=20
>> =46rom the work that we=E2=80=99ve looked at thus far, I have not yet =
seen a case where I absolutely MUST NOT use an alternate shortest path =
for a Node-SID and hence don=E2=80=99t require protection at a practical =
level.
>>=20
>> Stack depth is definitely going to be something that we need to =
consider - to me, where we have centralised controller - actions such as =
dynamically created forwarding-adjacency LSPs which allow =
=E2=80=9Cexpansion=E2=80=9D of one segment into a set of segments within =
the path are attractive as a solution where one needs to have explicit =
routing of traffic for TE purposes.=20
>>=20
>> Does this make sense, or do you see the use case that we=E2=80=99re =
addressing here differently?
>>=20
>> Cheers,
>> r.
>>=20
>>=20
>>> On 7 Jan 2015, at 09:44, stephane.litkowski@orange.com wrote:
>>>=20
>>> Hi,
>>>=20
>>> I'm coming into this long thread and I tried to read all the =
exchange=20
>>> but I may be missed some lines :)
>>>=20
>>> But here is my opinion on this subject.
>>> I think the point from Shradda is valuable in case of Traffic =
Engineering with Segment Routing, especially with a central controller.
>>>=20
>>> Today in TE networks, we are selling some disjoints paths to =
customer that MUST NOT be protected (SDH like services). It would be =
good to reproduce the same thing with SR-TE.
>>>=20
>>> Now, current encoding permits to advertise that a specific Adj-SID =
is protected or not (as already mentioned, this does not say that a =
protection really exists ..., in case of LFA protection , there may be =
no FRR path for this adj-SID despite of the protection flag set).
>>> We pretty know that it would not be possible in all case to use only =
Adj-SID for a TE tunnel (due to label stack depth), so we need to =
introduce stack compression using SPT segments and node-SID.
>>> So to reply on Rob's comment, on RSVP-TE tunnels with looses hops =
that does not request protection : yes for RSVP, it does not make sense =
to me, but for SR, due to stack compression, it will be needed.
>>>=20
>>> If we look at a network, where TE is managed by a central =
controller, how the controller can ensure that the node-SID used is =
protected or not (as for Adj-SID, I mean protection requested, not =
protection installed). I see two ways :
>>> 	* Use two SIDs attached to the same prefix and add a flag to =
prevent automatically all nodes to compute a protection for one of the =
SID. The flag does not really force nodes to compute a protection. Each =
node will still require local configuration for protection, but the flag =
will permit to exclude some prefixes for protection (overriding local =
policy).
>>>=20
>>> 	* Use two prefixes on each node , prefixes are marked with tags =
(admin-tags) : "protection tag" and "non protection tag". Each router is =
configured using LFA policies to not compute protection for prefixes =
having "non protection tag" AND add knowledge to the controller to use =
only "non protection tag" prefixes to compress non protected path.
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> Best Regards,
>>>=20
>>> Stephane
>>>=20
>>=20
>> =
__________________________________________________________________________=
_______________________________________________
>>=20
>> Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations =
confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
>> pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous =
avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
>> a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les =
messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
>> Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, =
deforme ou falsifie. Merci.
>>=20
>> This message and its attachments may contain confidential or =
privileged information that may be protected by law;
>> they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
>> If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender =
and delete this message and its attachments.
>> As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have =
been modified, changed or falsified.
>> Thank you.
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> spring mailing list
>> spring@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> spring mailing list
> spring@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring


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Thread-Topic: Providing unprotected SPRING TE path
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Subject: Re: [spring] Providing unprotected SPRING TE path
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From: "Nobo Akiya (nobo)" <nobo@cisco.com>
To: Rob Shakir <rjs@rob.sh>, "stephane.litkowski@orange.com" <stephane.litkowski@orange.com>
Thread-Topic: [spring] Providing unprotected SPRING TE path
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Subject: Re: [spring] Providing unprotected SPRING TE path
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From: "Nagendra Kumar Nainar (naikumar)" <naikumar@cisco.com>
To: "Nobo Akiya (nobo)" <nobo@cisco.com>, Rob Shakir <rjs@rob.sh>, "stephane.litkowski@orange.com" <stephane.litkowski@orange.com>
Thread-Topic: [spring] Providing unprotected SPRING TE path
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Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2015 04:50:00 +0000
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Subject: Re: [spring] Providing unprotected SPRING TE path
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Hi Nobo,

Do you mean, set the TTL of SBFD session from A to C as 2? (depending on
the hops). I am not sure if that will help. Assume (in your topology) the
metric between B and C is 10 and A want to avoid link BC. So the normal
path from A to D is A-B-E-F-D and using Node SID D is sufficient to take
the path that satisfy the constraint. In this case, I think relying on TTL
may not help as on B if link BE fails, it redirects over lesser TTL path.

-Nagendra

On 1/13/15, 10:12 PM, "Nobo Akiya (nobo)" <nobo@cisco.com> wrote:

>Hello Stephane, Rob, et al,
>
>Thanks for initiating this very interesting discussion.
>
>Please see in-line for one comment and one possible alternative.
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: spring [mailto:spring-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Rob Shakir
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2015 9:11 AM
>> To: stephane.litkowski@orange.com
>> Cc: spring@ietf.org
>> Subject: Re: [spring] Providing unprotected SPRING TE path
>>=20
>> Apologies, someone pointed out an error in my email =8B thanks!
>>=20
>> > On 13 Jan 2015, at 13:33, Rob Shakir <rjs@rob.sh> wrote:
>> >
>> > Hi Stephane,
>> >
>> > Thanks for kicking off this discussion =8B it=B9s one that we have had=
 a
>>few
>> conversations around.
>> >
>> >> On 12 Jan 2015, at 08:18, stephane.litkowski@orange.com wrote:
>> >>
>> >> [=8A snip =8A]
>> >>
>> >> Now, as I explained, IMO, it's possible to introduce end to end OAM
>>on
>> top on the SRTE to bring the LSP down as soon as there s something wrong
>> on the path. A Holddown timer can be used to keep LSP down until
>> convergence happens at Ingress or Controller. But introducing such OAM
>> and holddown and coupled with relations with IGP may also be complex and
>> there is a chance that it does not solve the issue. In case of protected
>> NodeSID used, OAM will not work, because switchover time will be too
>> small. Using OAM , defacto requires path with no protection.
>> >> So unprotected SID+OAM may solve the use at the price of some
>> complexity and possibly not solving 100% of the cases.
>> >
>> > I agree here
>>=20
>> Apologies, I disagree that SID+OAM is a reasonable solution here.
>
>[NOBO] I agree that end to end OAM (i.e., continuity check) will be
>difficult, as there will be a race condition between local protection(s)
>and the end to end OAM declaring the failure.
>
>>=20
>> r.
>>=20
>> > - either the switchover time is very small, and hence we cannot detect
>> anything with connectivity verification OAM, and doing anything that
>> measures the performance does not guarantee that we have strict affinity
>> to the original path (the post-convergence and protection paths may be
>> within the same performance constraints). So, no-protection and OAM is
>> not a good way to ensure that we have strict affinity.
>> >
>> >>
>> >> To conclude :
>> >> We need to solve this use case and we need to find another elegant,
>> simple and scalable solution for this.
>> >>
>> >> Possible existing solutions :
>> >> - Use Adj-SID only =3D> does not sounds good as there will be an impa=
ct
>> >> of stack depth =3D> Path compression necessary
>> >
>> > Stack compression is only really required today because we have
>> hardware that has never needed the stack depths that we=B9re talking abo=
ut
>> currently. Going forward, if SPRING-TE/SR-TE/AdjSID stacks are popular
>>as a
>> solution, then I see no reason that we MUST always have path
>>compression.
>> It is simply that this isn=B9t a dimension that we=B9ve asked our hardwa=
re
>> colleagues to optimise for currently IMHO. I=B9m interested if you=B9ve =
a
>> different view?
>> >
>> >> - Use binding TLV and create some new Node-SID corresponding to a set
>> >> of Adj-SID =3D> This introduces more states within the network (how
>> >> many ?)
>> >
>> > How many is a question that depends on the network, and the
>>constraints
>> that one places - since this tells you what the AdjSID stack size can
>>be. In
>> some cases, it can be worse than the network diameter, because the
>> constraints may require it. To this end, we can do some analysis to see
>> whether we can determine the number of Binding-TLVs that are going to be
>> required, and then subsequently, figure out how such SID-expansion
>> bindings are created (by PCE, manually by operator?)...
>> >
>> >> - Anything else ?
>> >
>> > Nothing else comes to mind from me at the moment. Would be interested
>> to hear whether there are other views within the WG.
>
>[NOBO] If I assume one condition, then there is another possibility.
>
>The assumption is that if there is a parallel link between a pair of
>nodes, then the SRTE will be:
>- using an Adj-SID on that hop, or
>- using a Node-SID to traverse that hop but don't care which link is
>traversed
>
>If above assumption is reasonable, then the requirements to OAM seem to
>be that:
>(1) N-th hop of a Node-SID forwarding MUST traverses a certain node.
>(2) An SRTE MAY have multiple instances of (1).
>
>For example:
>
>A----B----C----D
>          |       |
>          E----F
>
>Node A has SRTE that consists of Node-SID D but need to ensure that
>A-B-C-D is traversed.
>
>Node A can create an end to end OAM to monitor the reachability to D.
>
>Additionally, Node A can create an S-BFD session to Node C with specific
>TTL. "your discriminator" of such S-BFD packet guarantees that Node  A
>only gets the response as long as the packet is terminating on Node C.
>When Node B triggers a local protection or [re]convergence causes the
>packet to traverse A-B-E-F-C-D, then Node A can deterministically detect
>this and can take a necessary action (e.g., fall back to the backup LSP
>or re-compute a new path).
>
>Something like that is a possibility with S-BFD.
>
>Thanks!
>
>-Nobo
>
>> >
>> > r.
>> >
>> >>
>> >> Best regards,
>> >>
>> >> Stephane
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: Rob Shakir [mailto:rjs@rob.sh]
>> >> Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2015 10:52
>> >> To: LITKOWSKI Stephane SCE/IBNF
>> >> Cc: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg); Shraddha Hegde; Pushpasis Sarkar; Peter
>> >> Psenak (ppsenak);
>> >> draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions@tools.ietf.org;
>> >> draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions@tools.ietf.org; Hannes
>> >> Gredler; ospf@ietf.org; isis-wg@ietf.org
>> >> Subject: Re: [Isis-wg] [OSPF] Mail regarding
>> >> draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions
>> >>
>> >> Stephane,
>> >>
>> >> If we think about the =B3MUST NOT be protected=B2 case that you menti=
on.
>> Let=B9s assume that we have a service that is performance sensitive, suc=
h
>>that
>> we want to take a particular path through the network - and that we use
>> Node-SIDs like you say.
>> >>
>> >> If we assume that the requirement is for A-B-C-D-E path below. The
>>node
>> SID for E points via C-D-E and hence is used for stack compression like
>>you
>> say:
>> >>
>> >>     A -- B -- C -- D -- E
>> >>               |        /
>> >>               --- Q ---
>> >>
>> >> In your envisaged behaviour, C does not protect the Node-SID for E.
>>In
>> the case of the C-D link failure, then the =B3preferred=B2 behaviour is
>>that C now
>> drops traffic towards this destination. However, C does not remove the
>>FIB
>> entry for the Node-SID for E, it=B9s actually just now known via Q. At
>>this point,
>> A can forward with exactly the same stack, and the packet takes a new
>>A-B-
>> C-Q-E path, which is non-conformant with the performance requirement of
>> the service.
>> >>
>> >> In terms of what C does with its FIB, does it simply not use C-Q-E
>>during
>> the failure, but post-reconvergence use it anyway? If so, why not use
>>C-Q-E
>> during the failure - because the service is always going to
>>non-conformant
>> to the performance requirement?
>> >>
>> >> With an Adj-SID, it makes sense, because essentially unless that
>> adjacency is available, then there is no alternate path for the SID
>>that will be
>> taken - so traffic never hits a non-conformant path.
>> >>
>> >> Practically, if I can=B9t tell a customer that the path taken will
>>definitely be
>> A-B-C-D-E, and it may rather go via C-Q-E at some point following
>> convergence [until the head-end calculates that such a change had
>> happened - either a link outage, or a metric change - and stops using
>>the
>> label stack], then there=B9s little problem of having the traffic go via
>>C-Q-E
>> during protection.
>> >>
>> >> For the disjoint case, the consideration that one has to make is:
>> >> 	* are alternative SPF paths for a particular Node-SID actually still
>> conformant with the disjointness requirement? How many simultaneous
>> failures does one require to violate constraints. For example, in a
>>dual-
>> plane core network, then if the requirement is disjointness at the IP
>>level,
>> then we may need to lose connectivity entirely within the plane before
>>it is
>> preferable to =B3hop=B2 to another plane. In this case, using an
>>alternative SPF
>> path for the Node-SID is actually not a problem for disjointness.
>> >> 	* does the application prefer losing an entire path to having some
>> risk of the services being shared fate until the re-optimisation?
>> >>
>> >> From the work that we=B9ve looked at thus far, I have not yet seen a
>>case
>> where I absolutely MUST NOT use an alternate shortest path for a
>>Node-SID
>> and hence don=B9t require protection at a practical level.
>> >>
>> >> Stack depth is definitely going to be something that we need to
>>consider
>> - to me, where we have centralised controller - actions such as
>>dynamically
>> created forwarding-adjacency LSPs which allow =B3expansion=B2 of one seg=
ment
>> into a set of segments within the path are attractive as a solution
>>where one
>> needs to have explicit routing of traffic for TE purposes.
>> >>
>> >> Does this make sense, or do you see the use case that we=B9re
>>addressing
>> here differently?
>> >>
>> >> Cheers,
>> >> r.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> On 7 Jan 2015, at 09:44, stephane.litkowski@orange.com wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Hi,
>> >>>
>> >>> I'm coming into this long thread and I tried to read all the
>> >>> exchange but I may be missed some lines :)
>> >>>
>> >>> But here is my opinion on this subject.
>> >>> I think the point from Shradda is valuable in case of Traffic
>>Engineering
>> with Segment Routing, especially with a central controller.
>> >>>
>> >>> Today in TE networks, we are selling some disjoints paths to
>>customer
>> that MUST NOT be protected (SDH like services). It would be good to
>> reproduce the same thing with SR-TE.
>> >>>
>> >>> Now, current encoding permits to advertise that a specific Adj-SID
>>is
>> protected or not (as already mentioned, this does not say that a
>>protection
>> really exists ..., in case of LFA protection , there may be no FRR path
>>for this
>> adj-SID despite of the protection flag set).
>> >>> We pretty know that it would not be possible in all case to use
>>only Adj-
>> SID for a TE tunnel (due to label stack depth), so we need to introduce
>>stack
>> compression using SPT segments and node-SID.
>> >>> So to reply on Rob's comment, on RSVP-TE tunnels with looses hops
>>that
>> does not request protection : yes for RSVP, it does not make sense to
>>me,
>> but for SR, due to stack compression, it will be needed.
>> >>>
>> >>> If we look at a network, where TE is managed by a central
>>controller,
>> how the controller can ensure that the node-SID used is protected or
>>not (as
>> for Adj-SID, I mean protection requested, not protection installed). I
>>see
>> two ways :
>> >>> 	* Use two SIDs attached to the same prefix and add a flag to
>>prevent
>> automatically all nodes to compute a protection for one of the SID. The
>>flag
>> does not really force nodes to compute a protection. Each node will
>>still
>> require local configuration for protection, but the flag will permit to
>>exclude
>> some prefixes for protection (overriding local policy).
>> >>>
>> >>> 	* Use two prefixes on each node , prefixes are marked with tags
>> (admin-tags) : "protection tag" and "non protection tag". Each router is
>> configured using LFA policies to not compute protection for prefixes
>>having
>> "non protection tag" AND add knowledge to the controller to use only
>>"non
>> protection tag" prefixes to compress non protected path.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Best Regards,
>> >>>
>> >>> Stephane
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> ___________________________________________________________________
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From: Gregory Mirsky <gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com>
To: "Nobo Akiya (nobo)" <nobo@cisco.com>, Rob Shakir <rjs@rob.sh>, "stephane.litkowski@orange.com" <stephane.litkowski@orange.com>
Thread-Topic: [spring] Providing unprotected SPRING TE path
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Subject: Re: [spring] Providing unprotected SPRING TE path
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From: Mach Chen <mach.chen@huawei.com>
To: "Nobo Akiya (nobo)" <nobo@cisco.com>, Rob Shakir <rjs@rob.sh>, "stephane.litkowski@orange.com" <stephane.litkowski@orange.com>
Thread-Topic: [spring] Providing unprotected SPRING TE path
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From: <stephane.litkowski@orange.com>
To: Rob Shakir <rjs@rob.sh>
Thread-Topic: [spring] Providing unprotected SPRING TE path
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Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2015 09:26:00 +0000
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Subject: Re: [spring] Providing unprotected SPRING TE path
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From: <stephane.litkowski@orange.com>
To: Gregory Mirsky <gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com>, "spring@ietf.org" <spring@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Providing unprotected SPRING TE path
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Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2015 09:30:42 +0000
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Subject: Re: [spring] Providing unprotected SPRING TE path
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From: <stephane.litkowski@orange.com>
To: "Nagendra Kumar Nainar (naikumar)" <naikumar@cisco.com>, "Nobo Akiya (nobo)" <nobo@cisco.com>, Rob Shakir <rjs@rob.sh>
Thread-Topic: [spring] Providing unprotected SPRING TE path
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Subject: Re: [spring] Providing unprotected SPRING TE path
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Hi,

I agree with your point Nagendra, TTL cannot be used (Bruno already propose=
d such TTL solution on ISIS/OSPF ML).



-----Original Message-----
From: Nagendra Kumar Nainar (naikumar) [mailto:naikumar@cisco.com]=20
Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2015 05:50
To: Nobo Akiya (nobo); Rob Shakir; LITKOWSKI Stephane SCE/IBNF
Cc: spring@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [spring] Providing unprotected SPRING TE path

Hi Nobo,

Do you mean, set the TTL of SBFD session from A to C as 2? (depending on th=
e hops). I am not sure if that will help. Assume (in your topology) the met=
ric between B and C is 10 and A want to avoid link BC. So the normal path f=
rom A to D is A-B-E-F-D and using Node SID D is sufficient to take the path=
 that satisfy the constraint. In this case, I think relying on TTL may not =
help as on B if link BE fails, it redirects over lesser TTL path.

-Nagendra

On 1/13/15, 10:12 PM, "Nobo Akiya (nobo)" <nobo@cisco.com> wrote:

>Hello Stephane, Rob, et al,
>
>Thanks for initiating this very interesting discussion.
>
>Please see in-line for one comment and one possible alternative.
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: spring [mailto:spring-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Rob Shakir
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2015 9:11 AM
>> To: stephane.litkowski@orange.com
>> Cc: spring@ietf.org
>> Subject: Re: [spring] Providing unprotected SPRING TE path
>>=20
>> Apologies, someone pointed out an error in my email =8B thanks!
>>=20
>> > On 13 Jan 2015, at 13:33, Rob Shakir <rjs@rob.sh> wrote:
>> >
>> > Hi Stephane,
>> >
>> > Thanks for kicking off this discussion =8B it=B9s one that we have had=
=20
>> > a
>>few
>> conversations around.
>> >
>> >> On 12 Jan 2015, at 08:18, stephane.litkowski@orange.com wrote:
>> >>
>> >> [=D0 snip =D0]
>> >>
>> >> Now, as I explained, IMO, it's possible to introduce end to end=20
>> >> OAM
>>on
>> top on the SRTE to bring the LSP down as soon as there s something=20
>>wrong  on the path. A Holddown timer can be used to keep LSP down=20
>>until  convergence happens at Ingress or Controller. But introducing=20
>>such OAM  and holddown and coupled with relations with IGP may also be=20
>>complex and  there is a chance that it does not solve the issue. In=20
>>case of protected  NodeSID used, OAM will not work, because switchover=20
>>time will be too  small. Using OAM , defacto requires path with no protec=
tion.
>> >> So unprotected SID+OAM may solve the use at the price of some
>> complexity and possibly not solving 100% of the cases.
>> >
>> > I agree here
>>=20
>> Apologies, I disagree that SID+OAM is a reasonable solution here.
>
>[NOBO] I agree that end to end OAM (i.e., continuity check) will be=20
>difficult, as there will be a race condition between local=20
>protection(s) and the end to end OAM declaring the failure.
>
>>=20
>> r.
>>=20
>> > - either the switchover time is very small, and hence we cannot=20
>> > detect
>> anything with connectivity verification OAM, and doing anything that=20
>> measures the performance does not guarantee that we have strict=20
>> affinity to the original path (the post-convergence and protection=20
>> paths may be within the same performance constraints). So,=20
>> no-protection and OAM is not a good way to ensure that we have strict af=
finity.
>> >
>> >>
>> >> To conclude :
>> >> We need to solve this use case and we need to find another=20
>> >> elegant,
>> simple and scalable solution for this.
>> >>
>> >> Possible existing solutions :
>> >> - Use Adj-SID only =3D> does not sounds good as there will be an=20
>> >> impact of stack depth =3D> Path compression necessary
>> >
>> > Stack compression is only really required today because we have
>> hardware that has never needed the stack depths that we=B9re talking=20
>>about  currently. Going forward, if SPRING-TE/SR-TE/AdjSID stacks are=20
>>popular as a  solution, then I see no reason that we MUST always have=20
>>path compression.
>> It is simply that this isn=B9t a dimension that we=B9ve asked our=20
>>hardware  colleagues to optimise for currently IMHO. I=B9m interested if=
=20
>>you=B9ve a  different view?
>> >
>> >> - Use binding TLV and create some new Node-SID corresponding to a=20
>> >> set of Adj-SID =3D> This introduces more states within the network=20
>> >> (how many ?)
>> >
>> > How many is a question that depends on the network, and the
>>constraints
>> that one places - since this tells you what the AdjSID stack size can=20
>>be. In  some cases, it can be worse than the network diameter, because=20
>>the  constraints may require it. To this end, we can do some analysis=20
>>to see  whether we can determine the number of Binding-TLVs that are=20
>>going to be  required, and then subsequently, figure out how such=20
>>SID-expansion  bindings are created (by PCE, manually by operator?)...
>> >
>> >> - Anything else ?
>> >
>> > Nothing else comes to mind from me at the moment. Would be=20
>> > interested
>> to hear whether there are other views within the WG.
>
>[NOBO] If I assume one condition, then there is another possibility.
>
>The assumption is that if there is a parallel link between a pair of=20
>nodes, then the SRTE will be:
>- using an Adj-SID on that hop, or
>- using a Node-SID to traverse that hop but don't care which link is=20
>traversed
>
>If above assumption is reasonable, then the requirements to OAM seem to=20
>be that:
>(1) N-th hop of a Node-SID forwarding MUST traverses a certain node.
>(2) An SRTE MAY have multiple instances of (1).
>
>For example:
>
>A----B----C----D
>          |       |
>          E----F
>
>Node A has SRTE that consists of Node-SID D but need to ensure that=20
>A-B-C-D is traversed.
>
>Node A can create an end to end OAM to monitor the reachability to D.
>
>Additionally, Node A can create an S-BFD session to Node C with=20
>specific TTL. "your discriminator" of such S-BFD packet guarantees that=20
>Node  A only gets the response as long as the packet is terminating on Nod=
e C.
>When Node B triggers a local protection or [re]convergence causes the=20
>packet to traverse A-B-E-F-C-D, then Node A can deterministically=20
>detect this and can take a necessary action (e.g., fall back to the=20
>backup LSP or re-compute a new path).
>
>Something like that is a possibility with S-BFD.
>
>Thanks!
>
>-Nobo
>
>> >
>> > r.
>> >
>> >>
>> >> Best regards,
>> >>
>> >> Stephane
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: Rob Shakir [mailto:rjs@rob.sh]
>> >> Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2015 10:52
>> >> To: LITKOWSKI Stephane SCE/IBNF
>> >> Cc: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg); Shraddha Hegde; Pushpasis Sarkar;=20
>> >> Peter Psenak (ppsenak);=20
>> >> draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions@tools.ietf.org;
>> >> draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions@tools.ietf.org; Hannes=20
>> >> Gredler; ospf@ietf.org; isis-wg@ietf.org
>> >> Subject: Re: [Isis-wg] [OSPF] Mail regarding=20
>> >> draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions
>> >>
>> >> Stephane,
>> >>
>> >> If we think about the =B3MUST NOT be protected=B2 case that you menti=
on.
>> Let=B9s assume that we have a service that is performance sensitive,=20
>>such that  we want to take a particular path through the network - and=20
>>that we use  Node-SIDs like you say.
>> >>
>> >> If we assume that the requirement is for A-B-C-D-E path below. The
>>node
>> SID for E points via C-D-E and hence is used for stack compression=20
>>like you
>> say:
>> >>
>> >>     A -- B -- C -- D -- E
>> >>               |        /
>> >>               --- Q ---
>> >>
>> >> In your envisaged behaviour, C does not protect the Node-SID for E.
>>In
>> the case of the C-D link failure, then the =B3preferred=B2 behaviour is=
=20
>>that C now  drops traffic towards this destination. However, C does=20
>>not remove the FIB  entry for the Node-SID for E, it=B9s actually just=20
>>now known via Q. At this point,  A can forward with exactly the same=20
>>stack, and the packet takes a new
>>A-B-
>> C-Q-E path, which is non-conformant with the performance requirement=20
>>of  the service.
>> >>
>> >> In terms of what C does with its FIB, does it simply not use C-Q-E
>>during
>> the failure, but post-reconvergence use it anyway? If so, why not use=20
>>C-Q-E  during the failure - because the service is always going to=20
>>non-conformant  to the performance requirement?
>> >>
>> >> With an Adj-SID, it makes sense, because essentially unless that
>> adjacency is available, then there is no alternate path for the SID=20
>>that will be  taken - so traffic never hits a non-conformant path.
>> >>
>> >> Practically, if I can=B9t tell a customer that the path taken will
>>definitely be
>> A-B-C-D-E, and it may rather go via C-Q-E at some point following=20=20
>>convergence [until the head-end calculates that such a change had=20=20
>>happened - either a link outage, or a metric change - and stops using=20
>>the  label stack], then there=B9s little problem of having the traffic=20
>>go via C-Q-E  during protection.
>> >>
>> >> For the disjoint case, the consideration that one has to make is:
>> >> 	* are alternative SPF paths for a particular Node-SID actually=20
>> >> still
>> conformant with the disjointness requirement? How many simultaneous=20=
=20
>>failures does one require to violate constraints. For example, in a
>>dual-
>> plane core network, then if the requirement is disjointness at the IP=20
>>level,  then we may need to lose connectivity entirely within the=20
>>plane before it is  preferable to =B3hop=B2 to another plane. In this=20
>>case, using an alternative SPF  path for the Node-SID is actually not=20
>>a problem for disjointness.
>> >> 	* does the application prefer losing an entire path to having=20
>> >> some
>> risk of the services being shared fate until the re-optimisation?
>> >>
>> >> From the work that we=B9ve looked at thus far, I have not yet seen a
>>case
>> where I absolutely MUST NOT use an alternate shortest path for a=20
>>Node-SID  and hence don=B9t require protection at a practical level.
>> >>
>> >> Stack depth is definitely going to be something that we need to
>>consider
>> - to me, where we have centralised controller - actions such as=20
>>dynamically  created forwarding-adjacency LSPs which allow =B3expansion=
=B2=20
>>of one segment  into a set of segments within the path are attractive=20
>>as a solution where one  needs to have explicit routing of traffic for=20
>>TE purposes.
>> >>
>> >> Does this make sense, or do you see the use case that we=B9re
>>addressing
>> here differently?
>> >>
>> >> Cheers,
>> >> r.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> On 7 Jan 2015, at 09:44, stephane.litkowski@orange.com wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Hi,
>> >>>
>> >>> I'm coming into this long thread and I tried to read all the=20
>> >>> exchange but I may be missed some lines :)
>> >>>
>> >>> But here is my opinion on this subject.
>> >>> I think the point from Shradda is valuable in case of Traffic
>>Engineering
>> with Segment Routing, especially with a central controller.
>> >>>
>> >>> Today in TE networks, we are selling some disjoints paths to
>>customer
>> that MUST NOT be protected (SDH like services). It would be good to=20=
=20
>>reproduce the same thing with SR-TE.
>> >>>
>> >>> Now, current encoding permits to advertise that a specific=20
>> >>> Adj-SID
>>is
>> protected or not (as already mentioned, this does not say that a=20
>>protection  really exists ..., in case of LFA protection , there may=20
>>be no FRR path for this  adj-SID despite of the protection flag set).
>> >>> We pretty know that it would not be possible in all case to use
>>only Adj-
>> SID for a TE tunnel (due to label stack depth), so we need to=20
>>introduce stack  compression using SPT segments and node-SID.
>> >>> So to reply on Rob's comment, on RSVP-TE tunnels with looses hops
>>that
>> does not request protection : yes for RSVP, it does not make sense to=20
>>me,  but for SR, due to stack compression, it will be needed.
>> >>>
>> >>> If we look at a network, where TE is managed by a central
>>controller,
>> how the controller can ensure that the node-SID used is protected or=20
>>not (as  for Adj-SID, I mean protection requested, not protection=20
>>installed). I see  two ways :
>> >>> 	* Use two SIDs attached to the same prefix and add a flag to
>>prevent
>> automatically all nodes to compute a protection for one of the SID.=20
>>The flag  does not really force nodes to compute a protection. Each=20
>>node will still  require local configuration for protection, but the=20
>>flag will permit to exclude  some prefixes for protection (overriding=20
>>local policy).
>> >>>
>> >>> 	* Use two prefixes on each node , prefixes are marked with tags
>> (admin-tags) : "protection tag" and "non protection tag". Each router=20
>>is  configured using LFA policies to not compute protection for=20
>>prefixes having  "non protection tag" AND add knowledge to the=20
>>controller to use only "non  protection tag" prefixes to compress non=20
>>protected path.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Best Regards,
>> >>>
>> >>> Stephane
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> ___________________________________________________________________
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From: <stephane.litkowski@orange.com>
To: Gregory Mirsky <gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com>, "spring@ietf.org" <spring@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Providing unprotected SPRING TE path
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Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2015 11:54:23 +0000
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Subject: Re: [spring] Providing unprotected SPRING TE path
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From: "Nobo Akiya (nobo)" <nobo@cisco.com>
To: "Nagendra Kumar Nainar (naikumar)" <naikumar@cisco.com>, Rob Shakir <rjs@rob.sh>, "stephane.litkowski@orange.com" <stephane.litkowski@orange.com>
Thread-Topic: [spring] Providing unprotected SPRING TE path
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Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2015 13:42:05 +0000
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Subject: Re: [spring] Providing unprotected SPRING TE path
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Hi Nagendra,

Thanks for the comments.
Please see in-line.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nagendra Kumar Nainar (naikumar)
> Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2015 11:50 PM
> To: Nobo Akiya (nobo); Rob Shakir; stephane.litkowski@orange.com
> Cc: spring@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [spring] Providing unprotected SPRING TE path
>=20
> Hi Nobo,
>=20
> Do you mean, set the TTL of SBFD session from A to C as 2? (depending on
> the hops). I am not sure if that will help.

Correct. TTL=3D2 and your_disc target is C. So the packet terminating on an=
y nodes other than C will prevent reflector from generating the response.

> Assume (in your topology) the
> metric between B and C is 10 and A want to avoid link BC. So the normal
> path from A to D is A-B-E-F-D and using Node SID D is sufficient to take =
the
> path that satisfy the constraint. In this case, I think relying on TTL ma=
y not
> help as on B if link BE fails, it redirects over lesser TTL path.

If the normal path is A-B-E-F-D, then A will setup the S-BFD to terminate o=
n E (w/ TTL=3D2). When the link BE fails, the packet will terminate on C (i=
nstead of E) which will prevent A from getting further S-BFD reply (i.e., y=
our_disc target is E). So this will allow A to know when it is taking undes=
irable (whether that is triggered by protection or otherwise).

Thanks!

-Nobo

>=20
> -Nagendra
>=20
> On 1/13/15, 10:12 PM, "Nobo Akiya (nobo)" <nobo@cisco.com> wrote:
>=20
> >Hello Stephane, Rob, et al,
> >
> >Thanks for initiating this very interesting discussion.
> >
> >Please see in-line for one comment and one possible alternative.
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: spring [mailto:spring-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Rob Shakir
> >> Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2015 9:11 AM
> >> To: stephane.litkowski@orange.com
> >> Cc: spring@ietf.org
> >> Subject: Re: [spring] Providing unprotected SPRING TE path
> >>
> >> Apologies, someone pointed out an error in my email =8B thanks!
> >>
> >> > On 13 Jan 2015, at 13:33, Rob Shakir <rjs@rob.sh> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Hi Stephane,
> >> >
> >> > Thanks for kicking off this discussion =8B it=B9s one that we have h=
ad
> >> > a
> >>few
> >> conversations around.
> >> >
> >> >> On 12 Jan 2015, at 08:18, stephane.litkowski@orange.com wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> [=D0 snip =D0]
> >> >>
> >> >> Now, as I explained, IMO, it's possible to introduce end to end
> >> >> OAM
> >>on
> >> top on the SRTE to bring the LSP down as soon as there s something
> >>wrong  on the path. A Holddown timer can be used to keep LSP down
> >>until  convergence happens at Ingress or Controller. But introducing
> >>such OAM  and holddown and coupled with relations with IGP may also be
> >>complex and  there is a chance that it does not solve the issue. In
> >>case of protected  NodeSID used, OAM will not work, because switchover
> >>time will be too  small. Using OAM , defacto requires path with no
> protection.
> >> >> So unprotected SID+OAM may solve the use at the price of some
> >> complexity and possibly not solving 100% of the cases.
> >> >
> >> > I agree here
> >>
> >> Apologies, I disagree that SID+OAM is a reasonable solution here.
> >
> >[NOBO] I agree that end to end OAM (i.e., continuity check) will be
> >difficult, as there will be a race condition between local
> >protection(s) and the end to end OAM declaring the failure.
> >
> >>
> >> r.
> >>
> >> > - either the switchover time is very small, and hence we cannot
> >> > detect
> >> anything with connectivity verification OAM, and doing anything that
> >> measures the performance does not guarantee that we have strict
> >> affinity to the original path (the post-convergence and protection
> >> paths may be within the same performance constraints). So,
> >> no-protection and OAM is not a good way to ensure that we have strict
> affinity.
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> To conclude :
> >> >> We need to solve this use case and we need to find another
> >> >> elegant,
> >> simple and scalable solution for this.
> >> >>
> >> >> Possible existing solutions :
> >> >> - Use Adj-SID only =3D> does not sounds good as there will be an
> >> >> impact of stack depth =3D> Path compression necessary
> >> >
> >> > Stack compression is only really required today because we have
> >> hardware that has never needed the stack depths that we=B9re talking
> >>about  currently. Going forward, if SPRING-TE/SR-TE/AdjSID stacks are
> >>popular as a  solution, then I see no reason that we MUST always have
> >>path compression.
> >> It is simply that this isn=B9t a dimension that we=B9ve asked our
> >>hardware  colleagues to optimise for currently IMHO. I=B9m interested i=
f
> >>you=B9ve a  different view?
> >> >
> >> >> - Use binding TLV and create some new Node-SID corresponding to a
> >> >> set of Adj-SID =3D> This introduces more states within the network
> >> >> (how many ?)
> >> >
> >> > How many is a question that depends on the network, and the
> >>constraints
> >> that one places - since this tells you what the AdjSID stack size can
> >>be. In  some cases, it can be worse than the network diameter, because
> >>the  constraints may require it. To this end, we can do some analysis
> >>to see  whether we can determine the number of Binding-TLVs that are
> >>going to be  required, and then subsequently, figure out how such
> >>SID-expansion  bindings are created (by PCE, manually by operator?)...
> >> >
> >> >> - Anything else ?
> >> >
> >> > Nothing else comes to mind from me at the moment. Would be
> >> > interested
> >> to hear whether there are other views within the WG.
> >
> >[NOBO] If I assume one condition, then there is another possibility.
> >
> >The assumption is that if there is a parallel link between a pair of
> >nodes, then the SRTE will be:
> >- using an Adj-SID on that hop, or
> >- using a Node-SID to traverse that hop but don't care which link is
> >traversed
> >
> >If above assumption is reasonable, then the requirements to OAM seem to
> >be that:
> >(1) N-th hop of a Node-SID forwarding MUST traverses a certain node.
> >(2) An SRTE MAY have multiple instances of (1).
> >
> >For example:
> >
> >A----B----C----D
> >          |       |
> >          E----F
> >
> >Node A has SRTE that consists of Node-SID D but need to ensure that
> >A-B-C-D is traversed.
> >
> >Node A can create an end to end OAM to monitor the reachability to D.
> >
> >Additionally, Node A can create an S-BFD session to Node C with
> >specific TTL. "your discriminator" of such S-BFD packet guarantees that
> >Node  A only gets the response as long as the packet is terminating on
> Node C.
> >When Node B triggers a local protection or [re]convergence causes the
> >packet to traverse A-B-E-F-C-D, then Node A can deterministically
> >detect this and can take a necessary action (e.g., fall back to the
> >backup LSP or re-compute a new path).
> >
> >Something like that is a possibility with S-BFD.
> >
> >Thanks!
> >
> >-Nobo
> >
> >> >
> >> > r.
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> Best regards,
> >> >>
> >> >> Stephane
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> >> From: Rob Shakir [mailto:rjs@rob.sh]
> >> >> Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2015 10:52
> >> >> To: LITKOWSKI Stephane SCE/IBNF
> >> >> Cc: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg); Shraddha Hegde; Pushpasis Sarkar;
> >> >> Peter Psenak (ppsenak);
> >> >> draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions@tools.ietf.org;
> >> >> draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions@tools.ietf.org; Hannes
> >> >> Gredler; ospf@ietf.org; isis-wg@ietf.org
> >> >> Subject: Re: [Isis-wg] [OSPF] Mail regarding
> >> >> draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions
> >> >>
> >> >> Stephane,
> >> >>
> >> >> If we think about the =B3MUST NOT be protected=B2 case that you men=
tion.
> >> Let=B9s assume that we have a service that is performance sensitive,
> >>such that  we want to take a particular path through the network - and
> >>that we use  Node-SIDs like you say.
> >> >>
> >> >> If we assume that the requirement is for A-B-C-D-E path below. The
> >>node
> >> SID for E points via C-D-E and hence is used for stack compression
> >>like you
> >> say:
> >> >>
> >> >>     A -- B -- C -- D -- E
> >> >>               |        /
> >> >>               --- Q ---
> >> >>
> >> >> In your envisaged behaviour, C does not protect the Node-SID for E.
> >>In
> >> the case of the C-D link failure, then the =B3preferred=B2 behaviour i=
s
> >>that C now  drops traffic towards this destination. However, C does
> >>not remove the FIB  entry for the Node-SID for E, it=B9s actually just
> >>now known via Q. At this point,  A can forward with exactly the same
> >>stack, and the packet takes a new
> >>A-B-
> >> C-Q-E path, which is non-conformant with the performance requirement
> >>of  the service.
> >> >>
> >> >> In terms of what C does with its FIB, does it simply not use C-Q-E
> >>during
> >> the failure, but post-reconvergence use it anyway? If so, why not use
> >>C-Q-E  during the failure - because the service is always going to
> >>non-conformant  to the performance requirement?
> >> >>
> >> >> With an Adj-SID, it makes sense, because essentially unless that
> >> adjacency is available, then there is no alternate path for the SID
> >>that will be  taken - so traffic never hits a non-conformant path.
> >> >>
> >> >> Practically, if I can=B9t tell a customer that the path taken will
> >>definitely be
> >> A-B-C-D-E, and it may rather go via C-Q-E at some point following
> >>convergence [until the head-end calculates that such a change had
> >>happened - either a link outage, or a metric change - and stops using
> >>the  label stack], then there=B9s little problem of having the traffic
> >>go via C-Q-E  during protection.
> >> >>
> >> >> For the disjoint case, the consideration that one has to make is:
> >> >> 	* are alternative SPF paths for a particular Node-SID actually
> >> >> still
> >> conformant with the disjointness requirement? How many simultaneous
> >>failures does one require to violate constraints. For example, in a
> >>dual-
> >> plane core network, then if the requirement is disjointness at the IP
> >>level,  then we may need to lose connectivity entirely within the
> >>plane before it is  preferable to =B3hop=B2 to another plane. In this
> >>case, using an alternative SPF  path for the Node-SID is actually not
> >>a problem for disjointness.
> >> >> 	* does the application prefer losing an entire path to having
> >> >> some
> >> risk of the services being shared fate until the re-optimisation?
> >> >>
> >> >> From the work that we=B9ve looked at thus far, I have not yet seen =
a
> >>case
> >> where I absolutely MUST NOT use an alternate shortest path for a
> >>Node-SID  and hence don=B9t require protection at a practical level.
> >> >>
> >> >> Stack depth is definitely going to be something that we need to
> >>consider
> >> - to me, where we have centralised controller - actions such as
> >>dynamically  created forwarding-adjacency LSPs which allow =B3expansion=
=B2
> >>of one segment  into a set of segments within the path are attractive
> >>as a solution where one  needs to have explicit routing of traffic for
> >>TE purposes.
> >> >>
> >> >> Does this make sense, or do you see the use case that we=B9re
> >>addressing
> >> here differently?
> >> >>
> >> >> Cheers,
> >> >> r.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>> On 7 Jan 2015, at 09:44, stephane.litkowski@orange.com wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Hi,
> >> >>>
> >> >>> I'm coming into this long thread and I tried to read all the
> >> >>> exchange but I may be missed some lines :)
> >> >>>
> >> >>> But here is my opinion on this subject.
> >> >>> I think the point from Shradda is valuable in case of Traffic
> >>Engineering
> >> with Segment Routing, especially with a central controller.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Today in TE networks, we are selling some disjoints paths to
> >>customer
> >> that MUST NOT be protected (SDH like services). It would be good to
> >>reproduce the same thing with SR-TE.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Now, current encoding permits to advertise that a specific
> >> >>> Adj-SID
> >>is
> >> protected or not (as already mentioned, this does not say that a
> >>protection  really exists ..., in case of LFA protection , there may
> >>be no FRR path for this  adj-SID despite of the protection flag set).
> >> >>> We pretty know that it would not be possible in all case to use
> >>only Adj-
> >> SID for a TE tunnel (due to label stack depth), so we need to
> >>introduce stack  compression using SPT segments and node-SID.
> >> >>> So to reply on Rob's comment, on RSVP-TE tunnels with looses hops
> >>that
> >> does not request protection : yes for RSVP, it does not make sense to
> >>me,  but for SR, due to stack compression, it will be needed.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> If we look at a network, where TE is managed by a central
> >>controller,
> >> how the controller can ensure that the node-SID used is protected or
> >>not (as  for Adj-SID, I mean protection requested, not protection
> >>installed). I see  two ways :
> >> >>> 	* Use two SIDs attached to the same prefix and add a flag to
> >>prevent
> >> automatically all nodes to compute a protection for one of the SID.
> >>The flag  does not really force nodes to compute a protection. Each
> >>node will still  require local configuration for protection, but the
> >>flag will permit to exclude  some prefixes for protection (overriding
> >>local policy).
> >> >>>
> >> >>> 	* Use two prefixes on each node , prefixes are marked with tags
> >> (admin-tags) : "protection tag" and "non protection tag". Each router
> >>is  configured using LFA policies to not compute protection for
> >>prefixes having  "non protection tag" AND add knowledge to the
> >>controller to use only "non  protection tag" prefixes to compress non
> >>protected path.
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Best Regards,
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Stephane
> >> >>>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >>
> ___________________________________________________________________
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From: "Nobo Akiya (nobo)" <nobo@cisco.com>
To: Mach Chen <mach.chen@huawei.com>, Rob Shakir <rjs@rob.sh>, "stephane.litkowski@orange.com" <stephane.litkowski@orange.com>
Thread-Topic: [spring] Providing unprotected SPRING TE path
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Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2015 13:48:19 +0000
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Subject: Re: [spring] Providing unprotected SPRING TE path
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From: "Nobo Akiya (nobo)" <nobo@cisco.com>
To: Gregory Mirsky <gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com>, Rob Shakir <rjs@rob.sh>, "stephane.litkowski@orange.com" <stephane.litkowski@orange.com>
Thread-Topic: [spring] Providing unprotected SPRING TE path
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Subject: Re: [spring] Providing unprotected SPRING TE path
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Thread-Topic: New Comments on Segment Routing(1): Challenge of Ordered mode for SR-BE Path and Incremental Deployment
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<style id=3D"owaParaStyle">P {
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10pt;">
<p><font face=3D"Courier">Hi all authors of segment routing,</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">When we did research on segment routing and found=
 some new issues. Could you help clarify if the analysis is right and
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">how will they be taken into account in the design=
 of SR.</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">This is the first issue.</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; (Non-SR)<br>
&nbsp; S11-----------S12----------S13---------S14<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |<br>
&nbsp; S21-----------S22----------S23---------S24<br>
&nbsp; <br>
As above topoloby, there are 8 nodes and assume all the metics of the links=
 are 1 and VPNs are deployed<br>
on S11/S21/S14/S24. </font></p>
<font face=3D"Courier">
<p><br>
If LDP is used as the tunnel for VPN on S11/S14, since LDP can support the =
ordered mode. The LSP for the S14 will be
<br>
setup as the order S14-&gt;S13-&gt;S12-&gt;S11 for distribution of label ma=
pping. And the shortest path for routes
<br>
to S14 is also S11-&gt;S12-&gt;S13-&gt;S14. So the end-to-end LSP to S14 is=
 setup. If one node (e.g. S13) does not
<br>
support LDP, according to LDP ordered mode, the end-to-end LSP cannot setup=
 since S12 does not receive the label<br>
mapping from the exact nexthop of the route, S13 and it will not distribute=
 the label mapping to S11. And the
</p>
<p>result is that the VPN on S11 cannot take the LSP&nbsp;since the LSP can=
not setup on S11.&nbsp;<br>
</p>
<p>If SR-BE path is used as the tunnel for VPN on S11/S14 and assume the S1=
3 cannot support the SR, according to my
<br>
understanding, there will be an SR-BE path for the destination S14 which is=
 interrupted at S12. This is similar as
<br>
the independent mode of LDP. If this VPN takes this SR-BE Path at S11, the =
VPN traffic will be dropped at S12.<br>
</p>
<p>If the analysis is right. I have two questions:<br>
1. How will SR avoid such risk? Some enhancement on SR or just leave it to =
the local implmentation (For example,<br>
LSP ping is firstly used to check the connectivity)?<br>
2. Assume LDP is already deployed on all nodes in the network to bear VPN t=
raffic. When SR-BE path is adopted in the<br>
network to replace LDP LSP, since there is the possible risk proposed by in=
terrupted SR-BE path and&nbsp;I do not think it
</p>
<p>is impossible to carefully determine the upgraded nodes. So the only cho=
ice is to upgrade all nodes to support SR all
</p>
<p>at once. is that right that the incremental deployment of SR in such sce=
nario is difficult to adopt?</font></p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>Regards,</p>
<p>Zhenbin(Robin)</p>
</div>
</body>
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From: <bruno.decraene@orange.com>
To: Lizhenbin <lizhenbin@huawei.com>, "spring@ietf.org" <spring@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: New Comments on Segment Routing(1): Challenge of Ordered mode for SR-BE Path and Incremental Deployment
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Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2015 15:56:59 +0000
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Subject: Re: [spring] New Comments on Segment Routing(1): Challenge of Ordered mode for SR-BE Path and Incremental Deployment
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Hi Robin,

Thanks for your interest on SR/SPRING.
Please see inline. [Bruno]

From: spring [mailto:spring-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Lizhenbin
Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2015 2:12 PM
To: spring@ietf.org
Subject: [spring] New Comments on Segment Routing(1): Challenge of Ordered =
mode for SR-BE Path and Incremental Deployment


Hi all authors of segment routing,



When we did research on segment routing and found some new issues. Could yo=
u help clarify if the analysis is right and

how will they be taken into account in the design of SR.



This is the first issue.

                           (Non-SR)
  S11-----------S12----------S13---------S14
   |             |            |           |
   |             |            |           |
   |             |            |           |
  S21-----------S22----------S23---------S24

As above topoloby, there are 8 nodes and assume all the metics of the links=
 are 1 and VPNs are deployed
on S11/S21/S14/S24.

If LDP is used as the tunnel for VPN on S11/S14, since LDP can support the =
ordered mode. The LSP for the S14 will be
setup as the order S14->S13->S12->S11 for distribution of label mapping. An=
d the shortest path for routes
to S14 is also S11->S12->S13->S14. So the end-to-end LSP to S14 is setup. I=
f one node (e.g. S13) does not
support LDP, according to LDP ordered mode, the end-to-end LSP cannot setup=
 since S12 does not receive the label
mapping from the exact nexthop of the route, S13 and it will not distribute=
 the label mapping to S11. And the

result is that the VPN on S11 cannot take the LSP since the LSP cannot setu=
p on S11.

[Bruno]

My understanding of your case is the following, please correct me if I'm wr=
ong:

There is no SPRING/SR. All nodes support LDP. S11, S12, S14 use ordered mod=
e. S13 use independent mode.



First, such cases happen today in multiple vendor networks since different =
implementation used different options.

Then, I believe that your understanding of LDP independant mode  is incorre=
ct. In independent mode, S13 always advertises the S14 FEC to its neighbor,=
 even if it don't gets a label mapping from its downstream S14. This FEC is=
 then propagated to S11 in ordered mode.

As a result, S11 gets a label for S14 and will use S14 for the VPN. However=
 in the forwarding plane the traffic will be dropped on S13.





If SR-BE path is used as the tunnel for VPN on S11/S14 and assume the S13 c=
annot support the SR, according to my
understanding, there will be an SR-BE path for the destination S14 which is=
 interrupted at S12. This is similar as
the independent mode of LDP. If this VPN takes this SR-BE Path at S11, the =
VPN traffic will be dropped at S12.

If the analysis is right. I have two questions:
1. How will SR avoid such risk? Some enhancement on SR or just leave it to =
the local implmentation (For example,
LSP ping is firstly used to check the connectivity)?

[Bruno] A priori, I could see 3 answers

-a- I guess one could use IGP multi-topology to handle a different topology=
 between the IP and the MPLS one. This is similar to IPv6 introduction in a=
 IPv4 network.

-b- Another option is to enable interworking between LDP and SR/SPRING to h=
andle such incremental deployment. Please see the following draft for an in=
troduction on this interworking: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-filsfils=
-spring-segment-routing-ldp-interop-02 Comments are welcomed as I agree wit=
h you that's an important topic for brownfield incremental deployment

-c- Another option is to incrementally deploy SR in addition to LDP and to =
prefer LDP for end to end LSP (using administrative distance). Then it's up=
 to each SR application to see how much they can take benefit of partial SR=
 deployment. e.g. FRR (TI-LFA, RLFA or DLFA) may/should be able to benefit =
from partial deployment.



FYI, as of today/myself I say that "b" is required and "c" is nice to have.

2. Assume LDP is already deployed on all nodes in the network to bear VPN t=
raffic. When SR-BE path is adopted in the
network to replace LDP LSP, since there is the possible risk proposed by in=
terrupted SR-BE path and I do not think it

is impossible to carefully determine the upgraded nodes.

[Bruno] I'm not sure to correctly understand your last sentence. Within an =
AS (well area/level) It is possible to identify nodes which are SR/SPRING c=
ompliant (or non compliant) as they advertise this in the link state IGP.





So the only choice is to upgrade all nodes to support SR all at once.

[Bruno] No.



is that right that the incremental deployment of SR in such scenario is dif=
ficult to adopt?







Regards,

Zhenbin(Robin)

___________________________________________________________________________=
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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Hi Robin,<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Thanks for=
 your interest on SR/SPRING.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Please see inline. [Bruno=
]<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> spring [=
mailto:spring-bounces@ietf.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Lizhenbin<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, January 15, 2015 2:12 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> spring@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [spring] New Comments on Segment Routing(1): Challenge of O=
rdered mode for SR-BE Path and Incremental Deployment<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier;color:black">Hi all =
authors of segment routing,</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fami=
ly:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;san=
s-serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier;color:black">When we=
 did research on segment routing and found some new issues. Could you help =
clarify if the analysis is right and
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier;color:black">how wil=
l they be taken into account in the design of SR.</span><span style=3D"font=
-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:bl=
ack"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;san=
s-serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier;color:black">This is=
 the first issue.</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier;color:black">&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
(Non-SR)<br>
&nbsp; S11-----------S12----------S13---------S14<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |<br>
&nbsp; S21-----------S22----------S23---------S24<br>
&nbsp; <br>
As above topoloby, there are 8 nodes and assume all the metics of the links=
 are 1 and VPNs are deployed<br>
on S11/S21/S14/S24. </span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quo=
t;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier;color:black"><br>
If LDP is used as the tunnel for VPN on S11/S14, since LDP can support the =
ordered mode. The LSP for the S14 will be
<br>
setup as the order S14-&gt;S13-&gt;S12-&gt;S11 for distribution of label ma=
pping. And the shortest path for routes
<br>
to S14 is also S11-&gt;S12-&gt;S13-&gt;S14. So the end-to-end LSP to S14 is=
 setup. If one node (e.g. S13) does not
<br>
support LDP, according to LDP ordered mode, the end-to-end LSP cannot setup=
 since S12 does not receive the label<br>
mapping from the exact nexthop of the route, S13 and it will not distribute=
 the label mapping to S11. And the
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier;color:black">result =
is that the VPN on S11 cannot take the LSP&nbsp;since the LSP cannot setup =
on S11.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">[Bruno]<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">My understanding of your case =
is the following, please correct me if I&#8217;m wrong:<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">There is no SPRING/SR. All nod=
es support LDP. S11, S12, S14 use ordered mode. S13 use independent mode.<o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">First, such cases happen today=
 in multiple vendor networks since different implementation used different =
options.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Then, I believe that your unde=
rstanding of LDP independant mode&nbsp; is incorrect. In independent mode, =
S13 always advertises the S14 FEC to its neighbor, even if it
 don&#8217;t gets a label mapping from its downstream S14. This FEC is then=
 propagated to S11 in ordered mode.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">As a result, S11 gets a label =
for S14 and will use S14 for the VPN. However in the forwarding plane the t=
raffic will be dropped on S13.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier;color=
:black">If SR-BE path is used as the tunnel for VPN on S11/S14 and assume t=
he S13
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier;color:black">can=
not support the SR, according to my
<br>
understanding, there will be an SR-BE path for the destination S14 which is=
 interrupted at S12. This is similar as
<br>
the independent mode of LDP. If this VPN takes this SR-BE Path at S11, the =
VPN traffic will be dropped at S12.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier;color:black">If the =
analysis is right. I have two questions:<br>
1. How will SR avoid such risk? Some enhancement on SR or just leave it to =
the local implmentation (For example,<br>
LSP ping is firstly used to check the connectivity)?</span><span style=3D"f=
ont-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier;color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">[Bruno] A priori, I could see =
3 answers<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">-a- I guess one could use IGP =
multi-topology to handle a different topology between the IP and the MPLS o=
ne. This is similar to IPv6 introduction in a IPv4 network.<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">-b- Another option is to enabl=
e interworking between LDP and SR/SPRING to handle such incremental deploym=
ent. Please see the following draft for an introduction
 on this interworking: <a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-filsfil=
s-spring-segment-routing-ldp-interop-02">
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-ldp-inter=
op-02</a> Comments are welcomed as I agree with you that&#8217;s an importa=
nt topic for brownfield incremental deployment<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">-c- Another option is to incre=
mentally deploy SR in addition to LDP and to prefer LDP for end to end LSP =
(using administrative distance). Then it&#8217;s up to each SR
 application to see how much they can take benefit of partial SR deployment=
. e.g. FRR (TI-LFA, RLFA or DLFA) may/should be able to benefit from partia=
l deployment.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">FYI, as of today/myself I say =
that &#8220;b&#8221; is required and &#8220;c&#8221; is nice to have.<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier;color=
:black"><br>
2. Assume LDP is already deployed on all nodes in the network to bear VPN t=
raffic.
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier;color:black">Whe=
n SR-BE path is adopted in the<br>
network to replace LDP LSP, since there is the possible risk proposed by in=
terrupted SR-BE path and&nbsp;I do not think it
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier;color:black">is impo=
ssible to carefully determine the upgraded nodes.
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier;color:#1F497D"><=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">[Bruno] I&#8217;m not sure to =
correctly understand your last sentence. Within an AS (well area/level) It =
is possible to identify nodes which are SR/SPRING compliant (or
 non compliant) as they advertise this in the link state IGP.<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier;color=
:black">So the only choice is to upgrade all nodes to support SR all at onc=
e.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier=
;color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">[Bruno] No.<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier;color=
:black">is that right that the incremental deployment of SR in such scenari=
o is difficult to adopt?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&=
quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&=
quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;san=
s-serif&quot;;color:black">Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;san=
s-serif&quot;;color:black">Zhenbin(Robin)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<PRE>______________________________________________________________________=
___________________________________________________

Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden=
tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu=
 ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el=
ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou =
falsifie. Merci.

This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf=
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From: <bruno.decraene@orange.com>
To: DECRAENE Bruno IMT/OLN <bruno.decraene@orange.com>, Lizhenbin <lizhenbin@huawei.com>, "spring@ietf.org" <spring@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: New Comments on Segment Routing(1): Challenge of Ordered mode for SR-BE Path and Incremental Deployment
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1 correction inlined. [Bruno2]

From: spring [mailto:spring-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of bruno.decraene@o=
range.com
Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2015 4:57 PM
[...]



This is the first issue.

                           (Non-SR)
  S11-----------S12----------S13---------S14
   |             |            |           |
   |             |            |           |
   |             |            |           |
  S21-----------S22----------S23---------S24

As above topoloby, there are 8 nodes and assume all the metics of the links=
 are 1 and VPNs are deployed
on S11/S21/S14/S24.

If LDP is used as the tunnel for VPN on S11/S14, since LDP can support the =
ordered mode. The LSP for the S14 will be
setup as the order S14->S13->S12->S11 for distribution of label mapping. An=
d the shortest path for routes
to S14 is also S11->S12->S13->S14. So the end-to-end LSP to S14 is setup. I=
f one node (e.g. S13) does not
support LDP, according to LDP ordered mode, the end-to-end LSP cannot setup=
 since S12 does not receive the label
mapping from the exact nexthop of the route, S13 and it will not distribute=
 the label mapping to S11. And the

result is that the VPN on S11 cannot take the LSP since the LSP cannot setu=
p on S11.

[Bruno]

My understanding of your case is the following, please correct me if I'm wr=
ong:

There is no SPRING/SR. All nodes support LDP. S11, S12, S14 use ordered mod=
e. S13 use independent mode.



First, such cases happen today in multiple vendor networks since different =
implementation used different options.

Then, I believe that your understanding of LDP independant mode  is incorre=
ct. In independent mode, S13 always advertises the S14 FEC to its neighbor,=
 even if it don't gets a label mapping from its downstream S14. This FEC is=
 then propagated to S11 in ordered mode.

As a result, S11 gets a label for S14 and will use S14 for the VPN. However=
 in the forwarding plane the traffic will be dropped on S13.





[Bruno2] I withdraw my last sentence. In this fist cast, traffic is not dro=
pped. It works fine. We only lose the propagation of LDP FEC status in the =
control plane.



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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">1 correcti=
on inlined. [Bruno2]<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:5.25pt"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&=
quot;;mso-fareast-language:FR">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=
=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;=
mso-fareast-language:FR">
 spring [mailto:spring-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>bruno.decraene=
@orange.com<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, January 15, 2015 4:57 PM<br>
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tah=
oma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">[&#8230;]</span><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;s=
ans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt">
<div>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&=
quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier;color:black">This is=
 the first issue.</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier;color:black">&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
(Non-SR)<br>
&nbsp; S11-----------S12----------S13---------S14<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |<br>
&nbsp; S21-----------S22----------S23---------S24<br>
&nbsp; <br>
As above topoloby, there are 8 nodes and assume all the metics of the links=
 are 1 and VPNs are deployed<br>
on S11/S21/S14/S24. </span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quo=
t;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier;color:black"><br>
If LDP is used as the tunnel for VPN on S11/S14, since LDP can support the =
ordered mode. The LSP for the S14 will be
<br>
setup as the order S14-&gt;S13-&gt;S12-&gt;S11 for distribution of label ma=
pping. And the shortest path for routes
<br>
to S14 is also S11-&gt;S12-&gt;S13-&gt;S14. So the end-to-end LSP to S14 is=
 setup. If one node (e.g. S13) does not
<br>
support LDP, according to LDP ordered mode, the end-to-end LSP cannot setup=
 since S12 does not receive the label<br>
mapping from the exact nexthop of the route, S13 and it will not distribute=
 the label mapping to S11. And the
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier;color:black">result =
is that the VPN on S11 cannot take the LSP&nbsp;since the LSP cannot setup =
on S11.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">[Bruno]<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">My understanding of your case =
is the following, please correct me if I&#8217;m wrong:<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">There is no SPRING/SR. All nod=
es support LDP. S11, S12, S14 use ordered mode. S13 use independent mode.<o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">First, such cases happen today=
 in multiple vendor networks since different implementation used different =
options.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Then, I believe that your unde=
rstanding of LDP independant mode&nbsp; is incorrect. In independent mode, =
S13 always advertises the S14 FEC to its neighbor, even if it
 don&#8217;t gets a label mapping from its downstream S14. This FEC is then=
 propagated to S11 in ordered mode.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">As a result, S11 gets a label =
for S14 and will use S14 for the VPN. However in the forwarding plane the t=
raffic will be dropped on S13.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">[Bruno2] I withdraw my last se=
ntence. In this fist cast, traffic is not dropped. It works fine. We only l=
ose the propagation of LDP FEC status in the control plane.<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
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<PRE>______________________________________________________________________=
___________________________________________________

Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden=
tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu=
 ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el=
ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou =
falsifie. Merci.

This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf=
ormation that may be protected by law;
they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele=
te this message and its attachments.
As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been =
modified, changed or falsified.
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From: Jeff Tantsura <jeff.tantsura@ericsson.com>
To: Lizhenbin <lizhenbin@huawei.com>, "spring@ietf.org" <spring@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [spring] New Comments on Segment Routing(1): Challenge of Ordered mode for SR-BE Path and Incremental Deployment
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Subject: Re: [spring] New Comments on Segment Routing(1): Challenge of Ordered mode for SR-BE Path and Incremental Deployment
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Hi Robin,

Your understanding of interworking on Independent and Ordered control is in=
correct.
Please read RFC5036  sections 2.6.1.1. Independent Label Distribution Contr=
ol and 2.6.1.2. Ordered Label Distribution Control.

In the case described S13 (Independent) will distribute mapping for S14 wit=
hout need to receive it from downstream node (that=92s why it is called Ind=
ependent). S12(Ordered) will then send it to its upstream

The general issue with Independent is described in section 2.6.1.1. Indepen=
dent Label Distribution Control and is not SR related.
=93A consequence of using independent mode is that an upstream label can be=
 advertised before a downstream label is received.=94

Hope this clarifies,

Cheers,
Jeff

From: Lizhenbin <lizhenbin@huawei.com<mailto:lizhenbin@huawei.com>>
Date: Thursday, January 15, 2015 at 5:12 AM
To: "spring@ietf.org<mailto:spring@ietf.org>" <spring@ietf.org<mailto:sprin=
g@ietf.org>>
Subject: [spring] New Comments on Segment Routing(1): Challenge of Ordered =
mode for SR-BE Path and Incremental Deployment


Hi all authors of segment routing,



When we did research on segment routing and found some new issues. Could yo=
u help clarify if the analysis is right and

how will they be taken into account in the design of SR.



This is the first issue.

                           (Non-SR)
  S11-----------S12----------S13---------S14
   |             |            |           |
   |             |            |           |
   |             |            |           |
  S21-----------S22----------S23---------S24

As above topoloby, there are 8 nodes and assume all the metics of the links=
 are 1 and VPNs are deployed
on S11/S21/S14/S24.

If LDP is used as the tunnel for VPN on S11/S14, since LDP can support the =
ordered mode. The LSP for the S14 will be
setup as the order S14->S13->S12->S11 for distribution of label mapping. An=
d the shortest path for routes
to S14 is also S11->S12->S13->S14. So the end-to-end LSP to S14 is setup. I=
f one node (e.g. S13) does not
support LDP, according to LDP ordered mode, the end-to-end LSP cannot setup=
 since S12 does not receive the label
mapping from the exact nexthop of the route, S13 and it will not distribute=
 the label mapping to S11. And the

result is that the VPN on S11 cannot take the LSP since the LSP cannot setu=
p on S11.

If SR-BE path is used as the tunnel for VPN on S11/S14 and assume the S13 c=
annot support the SR, according to my
understanding, there will be an SR-BE path for the destination S14 which is=
 interrupted at S12. This is similar as
the independent mode of LDP. If this VPN takes this SR-BE Path at S11, the =
VPN traffic will be dropped at S12.

If the analysis is right. I have two questions:
1. How will SR avoid such risk? Some enhancement on SR or just leave it to =
the local implmentation (For example,
LSP ping is firstly used to check the connectivity)?
2. Assume LDP is already deployed on all nodes in the network to bear VPN t=
raffic. When SR-BE path is adopted in the
network to replace LDP LSP, since there is the possible risk proposed by in=
terrupted SR-BE path and I do not think it

is impossible to carefully determine the upgraded nodes. So the only choice=
 is to upgrade all nodes to support SR all

at once. is that right that the incremental deployment of SR in such scenar=
io is difficult to adopt?





Regards,

Zhenbin(Robin)

--_000_D0DE665989C95jefftantsuraericssoncom_
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<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3DWindows-1=
252">
</head>
<body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-lin=
e-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 14px; font-fami=
ly: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<div>
<div>Hi Robin,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Your understanding of interworking on&nbsp;Independent&nbsp;and Ordere=
d control is incorrect.</div>
<div>Please read RFC5036 &nbsp;sections 2.6.1.1. Independent Label Distribu=
tion Control and 2.6.1.2. Ordered Label Distribution Control.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>In the case described S13 (Independent) will distribute mapping for S1=
4 without need to receive it from downstream node (that=92s why it is calle=
d Independent). S12(Ordered) will then send it to its upstream&nbsp;</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The general issue with Independent is described in section 2.6.1.1. In=
dependent Label Distribution Control and is not SR related.</div>
<div>=93A consequence of using independent mode is that an upstream label c=
an be advertised before a downstream label is received.=94</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri; ">Hope this clarifies,</span></di=
v>
<div><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri; "><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri; ">Cheers,</span></div>
<div><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" color=3D"#000000"><font class=3D"Appl=
e-style-span" face=3D"Calibri">Jeff</font></font></div>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; text-align:left; color:b=
lack; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM:=
 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid;=
 BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">From: </span>Lizhenbin &lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:lizhenbin@huawei.com">lizhenbin@huawei.com</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Thursday, January 15, 2015 at=
 5:12 AM<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To: </span>&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:spring@=
ietf.org">spring@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:spring@ietf.org">=
spring@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>[spring] New Comments on S=
egment Routing(1): Challenge of Ordered mode for SR-BE Path and Incremental=
 Deployment<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote id=3D"MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTRIBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE" style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:=
 #b5c4df 5 solid; PADDING:0 0 0 5; MARGIN:0 0 0 5;">
<div dir=3D"ltr"><style id=3D"owaParaStyle">P {
	MARGIN-TOP: 0px; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0px
}
</style>
<div fpstyle=3D"1" ocsi=3D"0">
<div style=3D"direction: ltr;font-family: Tahoma;color: #000000;font-size: =
10pt;">
<p><font face=3D"Courier">Hi all authors of segment routing,</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">When we did research on segment routing and found=
 some new issues. Could you help clarify if the analysis is right and
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">how will they be taken into account in the design=
 of SR.</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">This is the first issue.</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; (Non-SR)<br>
&nbsp; S11-----------S12----------S13---------S14<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |<br>
&nbsp; S21-----------S22----------S23---------S24<br>
&nbsp; <br>
As above topoloby, there are 8 nodes and assume all the metics of the links=
 are 1 and VPNs are deployed<br>
on S11/S21/S14/S24. </font></p>
<font face=3D"Courier">
<p><br>
If LDP is used as the tunnel for VPN on S11/S14, since LDP can support the =
ordered mode. The LSP for the S14 will be
<br>
setup as the order S14-&gt;S13-&gt;S12-&gt;S11 for distribution of label ma=
pping. And the shortest path for routes
<br>
to S14 is also S11-&gt;S12-&gt;S13-&gt;S14. So the end-to-end LSP to S14 is=
 setup. If one node (e.g. S13) does not
<br>
support LDP, according to LDP ordered mode, the end-to-end LSP cannot setup=
 since S12 does not receive the label<br>
mapping from the exact nexthop of the route, S13 and it will not distribute=
 the label mapping to S11. And the
</p>
<p>result is that the VPN on S11 cannot take the LSP&nbsp;since the LSP can=
not setup on S11.&nbsp;<br>
</p>
<p>If SR-BE path is used as the tunnel for VPN on S11/S14 and assume the S1=
3 cannot support the SR, according to my
<br>
understanding, there will be an SR-BE path for the destination S14 which is=
 interrupted at S12. This is similar as
<br>
the independent mode of LDP. If this VPN takes this SR-BE Path at S11, the =
VPN traffic will be dropped at S12.<br>
</p>
<p>If the analysis is right. I have two questions:<br>
1. How will SR avoid such risk? Some enhancement on SR or just leave it to =
the local implmentation (For example,<br>
LSP ping is firstly used to check the connectivity)?<br>
2. Assume LDP is already deployed on all nodes in the network to bear VPN t=
raffic. When SR-BE path is adopted in the<br>
network to replace LDP LSP, since there is the possible risk proposed by in=
terrupted SR-BE path and&nbsp;I do not think it
</p>
<p>is impossible to carefully determine the upgraded nodes. So the only cho=
ice is to upgrade all nodes to support SR all
</p>
</font>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">at once. is that right that the incremental deplo=
yment of SR in such scenario is difficult to adopt?</font></p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>Regards,</p>
<p>Zhenbin(Robin)</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</span>
</body>
</html>

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From: Lizhenbin <lizhenbin@huawei.com>
To: "bruno.decraene@orange.com" <bruno.decraene@orange.com>, "spring@ietf.org" <spring@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: New Comments on Segment Routing(1): Challenge of Ordered mode for SR-BE Path and Incremental Deployment
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<div style=3D"direction: ltr;font-family: Tahoma;color: #000000;font-size: =
10pt;">
<p>Hi Bruno,</p>
<p>Please refer to my comments inline identified by '[Robin]'. </p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>Regards,</p>
<p>Robin</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 16px=
">
<hr tabindex=3D"-1">
<div style=3D"DIRECTION: ltr" id=3D"divRpF629386"><font color=3D"#000000" s=
ize=3D"2" face=3D"Tahoma"><b>=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB:</b> bruno.decraene@orange.=
com [bruno.decraene@orange.com]<br>
<b>=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4:</b> 2015=C4=EA1=D4=C216=C8=D5 15:55<br>
<b>=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB:</b> DECRAENE Bruno IMT/OLN; Lizhenbin; spring@ietf.o=
rg<br>
<b>=D6=F7=CC=E2:</b> RE: New Comments on Segment Routing(1): Challenge of O=
rdered mode for SR-BE Path and Incremental Deployment<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div></div>
<div>
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; =
COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">1 correction inlined. [Brun=
o2]</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; =
COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<div style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: blue 1.5pt solid; PA=
DDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 0cm; BORDER-TOP: mediu=
m none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0cm">
<div>
<div style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING=
-BOTTOM: 0cm; PADDING-LEFT: 0cm; PADDING-RIGHT: 0cm; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1p=
t solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<p style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 5.25pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"FONT=
-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D"EN-US">From:</span=
></b><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" la=
ng=3D"EN-US"> spring [mailto:spring-bounces@ietf.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>bruno.decraene@orange.com<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, January 15, 2015 4:57 PM<br>
</span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; F=
ONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D"EN-US">[=A1=AD]</span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: '=
Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D"EN-US"></span>=
</p>
</div>
</div>
<div style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: blue 1.5pt solid; PA=
DDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 0cm; BORDER-TOP: mediu=
m none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0cm">
<div>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SI=
ZE: 10pt" lang=3D"EN-US"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Courier; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">This=
 is the first issue.</span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif=
'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Courier; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p; (Non-SR)<br>
&nbsp; S11-----------S12----------S13---------S14<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |<br>
&nbsp; S21-----------S22----------S23---------S24<br>
&nbsp; <br>
As above topoloby, there are 8 nodes and assume all the metics of the links=
 are 1 and VPNs are deployed<br>
on S11/S21/S14/S24. </span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif=
'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Courier; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><br>
If LDP is used as the tunnel for VPN on S11/S14, since LDP can support the =
ordered mode. The LSP for the S14 will be
<br>
setup as the order S14-&gt;S13-&gt;S12-&gt;S11 for distribution of label ma=
pping. And the shortest path for routes
<br>
to S14 is also S11-&gt;S12-&gt;S13-&gt;S14. So the end-to-end LSP to S14 is=
 setup. If one node (e.g. S13) does not
<br>
support LDP, according to LDP ordered mode, the end-to-end LSP cannot setup=
 since S12 does not receive the label<br>
mapping from the exact nexthop of the route, S13 and it will not distribute=
 the label mapping to S11. And the
</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Courier; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">resu=
lt is that the VPN on S11 cannot take the LSP&nbsp;since the LSP cannot set=
up on S11.&nbsp;</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt">[Bruno]</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">My understanding of your case is the following,=
 please correct me if I=A1=AFm wrong:</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">There is no SPRING/SR. All nodes support LDP. S=
11, S12, S14 use ordered mode. S13 use independent mode.</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">[Robin] I don't mean S13 use independent mode. =
I mean S13 doesn't support LDP. That is S13 is a non-LDP node.</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">First, such cases happen today in multiple vend=
or networks since different implementation used different options.</span></=
p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">Then, I believe that your understanding of LDP =
independant mode&nbsp; is incorrect. In independent mode, S13 always advert=
ises the S14 FEC to its neighbor, even if
 it don=A1=AFt gets a label mapping from its downstream S14. This FEC is th=
en propagated to S11 in ordered mode.</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">As a result, S11 gets a label for S14 and will =
use S14 for the VPN. However in the forwarding plane the traffic will be dr=
opped on S13.</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">[Robin] Please rethink the use case taking into=
 account that S13 cannot supported in LDP. Since S13 cannot send the label =
mapping to S12, this means S12 cannot
 receive the label mapping from its exact nexthop for the prefix S14, S12 w=
ill not send the label mapping for S14&nbsp;&nbsp;to S11.
</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">[Bruno2] I withdraw my last sentence. In this f=
ist cast, traffic is not dropped. It works fine. We only lose the propagati=
on of LDP FEC status in the control
 plane.</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">[Robin] I could not understand your point. In f=
act, this case is simple. It just explain that if the ordered LDP is increm=
entally deployed, the traffic can be
 dropped at the ingress node without leaking the traffic into the network.<=
/span></p>
</div>
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From: Lizhenbin <lizhenbin@huawei.com>
To: "bruno.decraene@orange.com" <bruno.decraene@orange.com>, "spring@ietf.org" <spring@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: New Comments on Segment Routing(1): Challenge of Ordered mode for SR-BE Path and Incremental Deployment
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Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2015 05:09:38 +0000
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; =
COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Hi Robin,</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; =
COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; =
COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">Thanks for your interest on=
 SR/SPRING.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; =
COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Please see inline. [Bruno]</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; =
COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<div style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: blue 1.5pt solid; PA=
DDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 0cm; BORDER-TOP: mediu=
m none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0cm">
<div>
<div style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING=
-BOTTOM: 0cm; PADDING-LEFT: 0cm; PADDING-RIGHT: 0cm; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1p=
t solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'=
; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</span></b><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sa=
ns-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> spring [mailto:spring-bounces@ietf.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Lizhenbin<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, January 15, 2015 2:12 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> spring@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [spring] New Comments on Segment Routing(1): Challenge of O=
rdered mode for SR-BE Path and Incremental Deployment</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
<div>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Courier; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Hi a=
ll authors of segment routing,</span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','=
sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SI=
ZE: 10pt"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Courier; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">When=
 we did research on segment routing and found some new issues. Could you he=
lp clarify if the analysis is right and
</span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FON=
T-SIZE: 10pt"></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Courier; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">how =
will they be taken into account in the design of SR.</span><span style=3D"F=
ONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></span></=
p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SI=
ZE: 10pt"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Courier; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">This=
 is the first issue.</span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif=
'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Courier; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p; (Non-SR)<br>
&nbsp; S11-----------S12----------S13---------S14<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |<br>
&nbsp; S21-----------S22----------S23---------S24<br>
&nbsp; <br>
As above topoloby, there are 8 nodes and assume all the metics of the links=
 are 1 and VPNs are deployed<br>
on S11/S21/S14/S24. </span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif=
'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Courier; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><br>
If LDP is used as the tunnel for VPN on S11/S14, since LDP can support the =
ordered mode. The LSP for the S14 will be
<br>
setup as the order S14-&gt;S13-&gt;S12-&gt;S11 for distribution of label ma=
pping. And the shortest path for routes
<br>
to S14 is also S11-&gt;S12-&gt;S13-&gt;S14. So the end-to-end LSP to S14 is=
 setup. If one node (e.g. S13) does not
<br>
support LDP, according to LDP ordered mode, the end-to-end LSP cannot setup=
 since S12 does not receive the label<br>
mapping from the exact nexthop of the route, S13 and it will not distribute=
 the label mapping to S11. And the
</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Courier; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">resu=
lt is that the VPN on S11 cannot take the LSP&nbsp;since the LSP cannot set=
up on S11.&nbsp;</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt">[Bruno]</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">My understanding of your case is the following,=
 please correct me if I=A1=AFm wrong:</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">There is no SPRING/SR. All nodes support LDP. S=
11, S12, S14 use ordered mode. S13 use independent mode.</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">First, such cases happen today in multiple vend=
or networks since different implementation used different options.</span></=
p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">Then, I believe that your understanding of LDP =
independant mode&nbsp; is incorrect. In independent mode, S13 always advert=
ises the S14 FEC to its neighbor, even if
 it don=A1=AFt gets a label mapping from its downstream S14. This FEC is th=
en propagated to S11 in ordered mode.</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">As a result, S11 gets a label for S14 and will =
use S14 for the VPN. However in the forwarding plane the traffic will be dr=
opped on S13.</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Courier; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=
=3D"EN-US">If SR-BE path is used as the tunnel for VPN on S11/S14 and assum=
e the S13
</span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Courier; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">=
cannot support the SR, according to my
<br>
understanding, there will be an SR-BE path for the destination S14 which is=
 interrupted at S12. This is similar as
<br>
the independent mode of LDP. If this VPN takes this SR-BE Path at S11, the =
VPN traffic will be dropped at S12.</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Courier; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">If t=
he analysis is right. I have two questions:<br>
1. How will SR avoid such risk? Some enhancement on SR or just leave it to =
the local implmentation (For example,<br>
LSP ping is firstly used to check the connectivity)?</span><span style=3D"F=
ONT-FAMILY: Courier; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">[Bruno] A priori, I could see 3 answers</span><=
/p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">-a- I guess one could use IGP multi-topology to=
 handle a different topology between the IP and the MPLS one. This is simil=
ar to IPv6 introduction in a IPv4 network.</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">-b- Another option is to enable interworking be=
tween LDP and SR/SPRING to handle such incremental deployment. Please see t=
he following draft for an introduction
 on this interworking: <a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-filsfil=
s-spring-segment-routing-ldp-interop-02" target=3D"_blank">
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-ldp-inter=
op-02</a> Comments are welcomed as I agree with you that=A1=AFs an importan=
t topic for brownfield incremental deployment</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">-c- Another option is to incrementally deploy S=
R in addition to LDP and to prefer LDP for end to end LSP (using administra=
tive distance). Then it=A1=AFs up to each
 SR application to see how much they can take benefit of partial SR deploym=
ent. e.g. FRR (TI-LFA, RLFA or DLFA) may/should be able to benefit from par=
tial deployment.</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">FYI, as of today/myself I say that =A1=B0b=A1=
=B1 is required and =A1=B0c=A1=B1 is nice to have.</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Courier; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=
=3D"EN-US"><br>
2. Assume LDP is already deployed on all nodes in the network to bear VPN t=
raffic.
</span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Courier; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">=
When SR-BE path is adopted in the<br>
network to replace LDP LSP, since there is the possible risk proposed by in=
terrupted SR-BE path and&nbsp;I do not think it
</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Courier; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">is i=
mpossible to carefully determine the upgraded nodes.
</span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Courier; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 10pt=
"></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">[Bruno] I=A1=AFm not sure to correctly understa=
nd your last sentence. Within an AS (well area/level) It is possible to ide=
ntify nodes which are SR/SPRING compliant
 (or non compliant) as they advertise this in the link state IGP.</span></p=
>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Courier; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=
=3D"EN-US">So the only choice is to upgrade all nodes to support SR all at =
once.</span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Courier; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE:=
 10pt" lang=3D"EN-US"></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">[Bruno] No.</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Courier; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=
=3D"EN-US">is that right that the incremental deployment of SR in such scen=
ario is difficult to adopt?</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SI=
ZE: 10pt" lang=3D"EN-US"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SI=
ZE: 10pt" lang=3D"EN-US"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SI=
ZE: 10pt">Regards,</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SI=
ZE: 10pt">Zhenbin(Robin)</span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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10pt;">
<p>Hi Bruno,</p>
<p>Please refer to my comments inline identified by '[Robin]'. </p>
<p>For LDP, there are two LDP control modes:</p>
<p>-- Ordered&nbsp;mode: Depend on the egress and the downstream node</p>
<p>-- Independent mode: Depend on the downstream node.</p>
<p>In fact, SR is based on IGP and introduces one totally different mode wh=
ich I called as flooding mode.</p>
<p>-- Flooding mode: Depend the node's self</p>
<p>Comparing the there mode, the flooding mode is more independent. This me=
ans it is the essiest one to
</p>
<p>set up the interrupted LSP and leak the useless traffic into the network=
 which will have negative effect
</p>
<p>on the normal traffic in the network.</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>Best Regards,</p>
<p>Robin</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
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ize=3D"2" face=3D"Tahoma"><b>=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB:</b> bruno.decraene@orange.=
com [bruno.decraene@orange.com]<br>
<b>=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4:</b> 2015=C4=EA1=D4=C215=C8=D5 23:56<br>
<b>=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB:</b> Lizhenbin; spring@ietf.org<br>
<b>=D6=F7=CC=E2:</b> RE: New Comments on Segment Routing(1): Challenge of O=
rdered mode for SR-BE Path and Incremental Deployment<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div></div>
<div>
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; =
COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Hi Robin,</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; =
COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; =
COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">Thanks for your interest on=
 SR/SPRING.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; =
COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Please see inline. [Bruno]</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; =
COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<div style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: blue 1.5pt solid; PA=
DDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 0cm; BORDER-TOP: mediu=
m none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0cm">
<div>
<div style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING=
-BOTTOM: 0cm; PADDING-LEFT: 0cm; PADDING-RIGHT: 0cm; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1p=
t solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'=
; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</span></b><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sa=
ns-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> spring [mailto:spring-bounces@ietf.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Lizhenbin<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, January 15, 2015 2:12 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> spring@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [spring] New Comments on Segment Routing(1): Challenge of O=
rdered mode for SR-BE Path and Incremental Deployment</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
<div>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Courier; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Hi a=
ll authors of segment routing,</span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','=
sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SI=
ZE: 10pt"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Courier; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">When=
 we did research on segment routing and found some new issues. Could you he=
lp clarify if the analysis is right and
</span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FON=
T-SIZE: 10pt"></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Courier; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">how =
will they be taken into account in the design of SR.</span><span style=3D"F=
ONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></span></=
p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SI=
ZE: 10pt"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Courier; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">This=
 is the first issue.</span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif=
'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Courier; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p; (Non-SR)<br>
&nbsp; S11-----------S12----------S13---------S14<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |<br>
&nbsp; S21-----------S22----------S23---------S24<br>
&nbsp; <br>
As above topoloby, there are 8 nodes and assume all the metics of the links=
 are 1 and VPNs are deployed<br>
on S11/S21/S14/S24. </span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif=
'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Courier; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><br>
If LDP is used as the tunnel for VPN on S11/S14, since LDP can support the =
ordered mode. The LSP for the S14 will be
<br>
setup as the order S14-&gt;S13-&gt;S12-&gt;S11 for distribution of label ma=
pping. And the shortest path for routes
<br>
to S14 is also S11-&gt;S12-&gt;S13-&gt;S14. So the end-to-end LSP to S14 is=
 setup. If one node (e.g. S13) does not
<br>
support LDP, according to LDP ordered mode, the end-to-end LSP cannot setup=
 since S12 does not receive the label<br>
mapping from the exact nexthop of the route, S13 and it will not distribute=
 the label mapping to S11. And the
</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Courier; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">resu=
lt is that the VPN on S11 cannot take the LSP&nbsp;since the LSP cannot set=
up on S11.&nbsp;</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt">[Bruno]</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">My understanding of your case is the following,=
 please correct me if I=A1=AFm wrong:</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">There is no SPRING/SR. All nodes support LDP. S=
11, S12, S14 use ordered mode. S13 use independent mode.</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">First, such cases happen today in multiple vend=
or networks since different implementation used different options.</span></=
p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">Then, I believe that your understanding of LDP =
independant mode&nbsp; is incorrect. In independent mode, S13 always advert=
ises the S14 FEC to its neighbor, even if
 it don=A1=AFt gets a label mapping from its downstream S14. This FEC is th=
en propagated to S11 in ordered mode.</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">As a result, S11 gets a label for S14 and will =
use S14 for the VPN. However in the forwarding plane the traffic will be dr=
opped on S13.</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">[Robin] It has explained in the previous mail. =
Please rethink the case that S13 does not support LDP instead of that S13 s=
upport independent mode.</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Courier; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=
=3D"EN-US">If SR-BE path is used as the tunnel for VPN on S11/S14 and assum=
e the S13
</span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Courier; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">=
cannot support the SR, according to my
<br>
understanding, there will be an SR-BE path for the destination S14 which is=
 interrupted at S12. This is similar as
<br>
the independent mode of LDP. If this VPN takes this SR-BE Path at S11, the =
VPN traffic will be dropped at S12.</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Courier; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">If t=
he analysis is right. I have two questions:<br>
1. How will SR avoid such risk? Some enhancement on SR or just leave it to =
the local implmentation (For example,<br>
LSP ping is firstly used to check the connectivity)?</span><span style=3D"F=
ONT-FAMILY: Courier; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">[Bruno] A priori, I could see 3 answers</span><=
/p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">-a- I guess one could use IGP multi-topology to=
 handle a different topology between the IP and the MPLS one. This is simil=
ar to IPv6 introduction in a IPv4 network.</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">-b- Another option is to enable interworking be=
tween LDP and SR/SPRING to handle such incremental deployment. Please see t=
he following draft for an introduction
 on this interworking: <a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-filsfil=
s-spring-segment-routing-ldp-interop-02" target=3D"_blank">
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-ldp-inter=
op-02</a> Comments are welcomed as I agree with you that=A1=AFs an importan=
t topic for brownfield incremental deployment</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">[Robin] I do not think multi-topoloty and SR-LD=
P interop will propose can not solved the issued. But the price is high. In=
 fact, I have read the draft. But I
 do not think think it is an easy work according to the past experience in =
the MPLS world. I will explain the possible work should be taken into accou=
nt in the subsequent comments. A small example, SR claimed it can replace t=
he IGP-LDP sync. But as a developer,
 I am sure that the effort&nbsp;of implementation of SR-LDP interop is much=
 more than IGP-LDP sync. Can I say that in fact SR does not save our effort=
, but make more trouble?</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">-c- Another option is to incrementally deploy S=
R in addition to LDP and to prefer LDP for end to end LSP (using administra=
tive distance). Then it=A1=AFs up to each
 SR application to see how much they can take benefit of partial SR deploym=
ent. e.g. FRR (TI-LFA, RLFA or DLFA) may/should be able to benefit from par=
tial deployment.</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">[Robin] The difficulty is that the ingress node=
 cannot determine if the SR-BE path is end-to-end without extra methods whi=
ch is unnecessary for the&nbsp;LDP already
 deployed in the whole network. </span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">FYI, as of today/myself I say that =A1=B0b=A1=
=B1 is required and =A1=B0c=A1=B1 is nice to have.</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Courier; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=
=3D"EN-US"><br>
2. Assume LDP is already deployed on all nodes in the network to bear VPN t=
raffic.
</span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Courier; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">=
When SR-BE path is adopted in the<br>
network to replace LDP LSP, since there is the possible risk proposed by in=
terrupted SR-BE path and&nbsp;I do not think it
</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Courier; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">is i=
mpossible to carefully determine the upgraded nodes.
</span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Courier; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 10pt=
"></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">[Bruno] I=A1=AFm not sure to correctly understa=
nd your last sentence. Within an AS (well area/level) It is possible to ide=
ntify nodes which are SR/SPRING compliant
 (or non compliant) as they advertise this in the link state IGP.</span></p=
>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">[Robin]&nbsp;I agree your proposed the incremen=
tal deployment method by IGP extension to identifed the SR-node. This is no=
t what my objective. My case is to show that
 the scope of end-to-end LSP and the scope of the SR nodes is different. Th=
e incremental deployment of SR cause the issue for the end-to-end LSP.
</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Courier; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=
=3D"EN-US">So the only choice is to upgrade all nodes to support SR all at =
once.</span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Courier; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE:=
 10pt" lang=3D"EN-US"></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">[Bruno] No.</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">[Robin] I can agree you that it may be necessar=
y. But more details be taken into account and the price may be high and .</=
span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Courier; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=
=3D"EN-US">is that right that the incremental deployment of SR in such scen=
ario is difficult to adopt?</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SI=
ZE: 10pt" lang=3D"EN-US"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SI=
ZE: 10pt" lang=3D"EN-US"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SI=
ZE: 10pt">Regards,</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SI=
ZE: 10pt">Zhenbin(Robin)</span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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From: Lizhenbin <lizhenbin@huawei.com>
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Thread-Topic: New Comments on Segment Routing(2): Challenge of Proxy Egress for SR-BE Path
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--_000_5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D477269F1nkgeml506mbxchi_
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<html dir=3D"ltr">
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dgb2312">
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10pt;"><font face=3D"Courier">
<p>Hi all authors of segment routing,</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>This is the second issue. In order for better understanding and discussi=
on, I include MPLS WG in the discussion.</p>
<p><br>
I will propose one use case of LDP proxy egress: Inter-AS VPN Option C</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp; PE11--------ASBR11--------ASBR21-------PE21<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; AS1&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp; AS2&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |<br>
&nbsp; PE12--------ASBR12--------ASBR22-------PE22</p>
<p><br>
In this case, the label BGP(RFC3107) can advertise the label route for PE21=
 and PE22 from the ASBR in AS2 to the ASBR in AS1.<br>
Some carriers prefers to use label BGP to go on to advertise the label rout=
e to PE11 and PE12. But some carriers do not like full<br>
mesh BGP peers and three layer label for the traffic, they would redistribu=
te the BGP routes to IGP at ASBR11/ASBR12 and depend
<br>
on LDP to setup LDP LSP for the prefix PE21/PE22 in the AS1.</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>For the use case if the SR is adopted, there may propose following chall=
enges:<br>
1. How to configure the SID/label for these proxy egress addresses? On both=
 ASBR11 and ASBR22? If there more ASBRs, there will be<br>
more configuration work. Is it right?<br>
2. According to seamless MPLS, there may be 10,000 node addresses. If take =
the assumption, it will be a great configuration work.<br>
3. The label route on the ASBR can be dymamic changed. Is there the case th=
at the more or less SID/Labels are configured?<br>
</p>
<p>If my understanding is right, comparing with the simple case with actual=
 egress, there will be more challenge for the proxy egress
</p>
<p>case for SR. In fact, there are more usecases of proxy egress:<br>
1. C &amp; C: Proxy egress for the VPN routes<br>
2. Seamless MPLS: Proxy egress for the LDP DoD</p>
<p>3. Some usecases which needs LDP node and Non-LDP node coexists.<br>
</p>
<p>I wonder if you have thought about the proxy egress scenarios and what i=
s the possible solution? If the proxy egress cannot be
<br>
supported, there will be more challenges:<br>
1. LDP cannot be replaced by SR-BE path. In the above usecase, LDP Proxy Eg=
ress and SR actual egress may have to co-existed. It will
</p>
<p>be too complexed and SR is totally unnecessary.<br>
2. TI-FRR for the proxy egress case cannot supported either. But this case =
can be supported by other FRR solutions.</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>Hope to get your opinion on the progress egress for SR.</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p><br>
Regards,<br>
Robin<br>
</font></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D477269F1nkgeml506mbxchi_--


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From: <bruno.decraene@orange.com>
To: Lizhenbin <lizhenbin@huawei.com>
Thread-Topic: New Comments on Segment Routing(1): Challenge of Ordered mode for SR-BE Path and Incremental Deployment
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<body lang=3D"FR" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Hi Robin,<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Please ref=
er to my comments inline identified by '[Bruno2]'.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;<o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Regards,<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Bruno<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> Lizhenbi=
n [mailto:lizhenbin@huawei.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, January 18, 2015 6:08 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> DECRAENE Bruno IMT/OLN; spring@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> ??: New Comments on Segment Routing(1): Challenge of Ordere=
d mode for SR-BE Path and Incremental Deployment<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;san=
s-serif&quot;;color:black">Hi Bruno,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;san=
s-serif&quot;;color:black">Please refer to my comments inline identified by=
 '[Robin]'.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;san=
s-serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;san=
s-serif&quot;;color:black">Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;san=
s-serif&quot;;color:black">Robin<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;san=
s-serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span=
 style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:b=
lack">
<hr size=3D"2" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center">
</span></div>
<div id=3D"divRpF629386">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span lang=3D"ZH-C=
N" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;color:black">=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB</span></b><b><=
span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot=
;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" styl=
e=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;=
;color:black">
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><a href=3D"mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com"=
><span lang=3D"EN-US">bruno.decraene@orange.com</span></a></span><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;s=
ans-serif&quot;;color:black">
 [bruno.decraene@orange.com]<br>
</span><b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;color:black">=B7=
=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4</span></b><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">:=
</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">
 2015</span><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;color:black">=C4=
=EA</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;=
Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">1</span><span lang=3D"ZH-C=
N" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;color:black">=D4=C2</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&=
quot;;color:black">16</span><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;=
color:black">=C8=D5</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">
 15:55<br>
</span><b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;color:black">=CA=
=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB</span></b><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt=
;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">:</span=
></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahom=
a&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">
 DECRAENE Bruno IMT/OLN; Lizhenbin; </span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><a href=
=3D"mailto:spring@ietf.org"><span lang=3D"EN-US">spring@ietf.org</span></a>=
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tah=
oma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><br>
</span><b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;color:black">=D6=
=F7=CC=E2</span></b><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">:</span></b><=
span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot=
;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">
 RE: New Comments on Segment Routing(1): Challenge of Ordered mode for SR-B=
E Path and Incremental Deployment</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-=
family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">1 correcti=
on inlined. [Bruno2]</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:5.25pt"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&=
quot;;color:black">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"> =
spring [<a href=3D"mailto:spring-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:spring-bounces@ie=
tf.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b><a href=3D"mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com">bruno.decr=
aene@orange.com</a><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, January 15, 2015 4:57 PM<br>
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tah=
oma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">[=A1=AD]</span><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt">
<div>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&q=
uot;serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier;color:black">This is=
 the first issue.</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&qu=
ot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier;color:black">&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
(Non-SR)<br>
&nbsp; S11-----------S12----------S13---------S14<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |<br>
&nbsp; S21-----------S22----------S23---------S24<br>
&nbsp; <br>
As above topoloby, there are 8 nodes and assume all the metics of the links=
 are 1 and VPNs are deployed<br>
on S11/S21/S14/S24. </span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman=
&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier;color:black"><br>
If LDP is used as the tunnel for VPN on S11/S14, since LDP can support the =
ordered mode. The LSP for the S14 will be
<br>
setup as the order S14-&gt;S13-&gt;S12-&gt;S11 for distribution of label ma=
pping. And the shortest path for routes
<br>
to S14 is also S11-&gt;S12-&gt;S13-&gt;S14. So the end-to-end LSP to S14 is=
 setup. If one node (e.g. S13) does not
<br>
support LDP, according to LDP ordered mode, the end-to-end LSP cannot setup=
 since S12 does not receive the label<br>
mapping from the exact nexthop of the route, S13 and it will not distribute=
 the label mapping to S11. And the
</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&q=
uot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier;color:black">result =
is that the VPN on S11 cannot take the LSP&nbsp;since the LSP cannot setup =
on S11.&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,=
&quot;serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">[Bruno]</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quo=
t;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">My understanding of your case =
is the following, please correct me if I=A1=AFm wrong:</span><span style=3D=
"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:black"><o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">There is no SPRING/SR. All nod=
es support LDP. S11, S12, S14 use ordered mode. S13 use independent mode.</=
span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quo=
t;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">[Robin] I don't mean S13 use i=
ndependent mode. I mean S13 doesn't support LDP. That is S13 is a non-LDP n=
ode.</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;ser=
if&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">[Bruno2] ok. In this case you =
are right that the LSP is interrupted and the control plane vision is diffe=
rent between ordered and independent mode. This is a point
 which is specific to LDP and 15 years old, a</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D">nd not related to SPRING.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">/Bruno<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&q=
uot;serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">First, such cases happen today=
 in multiple vendor networks since different implementation used different =
options.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Ro=
man&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Then, I believe that your unde=
rstanding of LDP independant mode&nbsp; is incorrect. In independent mode, =
S13 always advertises the S14 FEC to its neighbor, even if it
 don=A1=AFt gets a label mapping from its downstream S14. This FEC is then =
propagated to S11 in ordered mode.</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;T=
imes New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">As a result, S11 gets a label =
for S14 and will use S14 for the VPN. However in the forwarding plane the t=
raffic will be dropped on S13.</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times=
 New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">[Robin] Please rethink the use=
 case taking into account that S13 cannot supported in LDP. Since S13 canno=
t send the label mapping to S12, this means S12 cannot receive
 the label mapping from its exact nexthop for the prefix S14, S12 will not =
send the label mapping for S14&nbsp;&nbsp;to S11.
</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&q=
uot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;=
;color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;=
;color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">[Bruno2] I withdraw my last se=
ntence. In this fist cast, traffic is not dropped. It works fine. We only l=
ose the propagation of LDP FEC status in the control plane.</span><span sty=
le=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:black=
"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">[Robin] I could not understand=
 your point. In fact, this case is simple. It just explain that if the orde=
red LDP is incrementally deployed, the traffic can be dropped
 at the ingress node without leaking the traffic into the network.</span><s=
pan style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;colo=
r:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black">__________________________________________=
___________________________________________________________________________=
____<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black">Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent c=
ontenir des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc=
<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black">pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies san=
s autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signal=
er<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black">a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que le=
s pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteratio=
n,<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black">Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce =
message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black">This message and its attachments may conta=
in confidential or privileged information that may be protected by law;<o:p=
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<pre><span style=3D"color:black">they should not be distributed, used or co=
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<pre><span style=3D"color:black">If you have received this email in error, =
please notify the sender and delete this message and its attachments.<o:p><=
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<pre><span style=3D"color:black">As emails may be altered, Orange is not li=
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<pre><span style=3D"color:black">Thank you.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<PRE>______________________________________________________________________=
___________________________________________________

Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden=
tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu=
 ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el=
ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou =
falsifie. Merci.

This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf=
ormation that may be protected by law;
they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele=
te this message and its attachments.
As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been =
modified, changed or falsified.
Thank you.
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Thread-Topic: New Comments on Segment Routing(1): Challenge of Ordered mode for SR-BE Path and Incremental Deployment
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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Hi Robin,<=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Please see=
 inline [Bruno2]<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Regards,<o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Bruno<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> Lizhenbi=
n [mailto:lizhenbin@huawei.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, January 18, 2015 6:41 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> DECRAENE Bruno IMT/OLN; spring@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> ??: New Comments on Segment Routing(1): Challenge of Ordere=
d mode for SR-BE Path and Incremental Deployment<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;san=
s-serif&quot;;color:black">Hi Bruno,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;san=
s-serif&quot;;color:black">Please refer to my comments inline identified by=
 '[Robin]'.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;san=
s-serif&quot;;color:black">For LDP, there are two LDP control modes:<o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;san=
s-serif&quot;;color:black">-- Ordered&nbsp;mode: Depend on the egress and t=
he downstream node<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;san=
s-serif&quot;;color:black">-- Independent mode: Depend on the downstream no=
de.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;san=
s-serif&quot;;color:black">In fact, SR is based on IGP and introduces one t=
otally different mode which I called as flooding mode.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;san=
s-serif&quot;;color:black">-- Flooding mode: Depend the node's self<o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">[Bruno2] I=A1=AFm not sure to =
see what you mean by =A1=B0depend=A1=B1.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=
=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;=
color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">In LDP ordered mode, there is =
a signaling end to end from the egress to the ingress, roughly a la =A1=B0d=
istance vector=A1=B1.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">In LDP independent mode, the s=
ignaling is limited to be 2 adjacent nodes (me, my downstream). So roughly =
no signaling.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">In SPRING, the Link State para=
digm is used. You know the status of the egress and all the links&nbsp; &am=
p; nodes.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&=
quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Comparing the there mode, the flo=
oding mode is more independent.
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">This means it is the essiest one to
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;san=
s-serif&quot;;color:black">set up the interrupted LSP and leak the useless =
traffic into the network which will have negative effect
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;san=
s-serif&quot;;color:black">on the normal traffic in the network.<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">[Bruno2] I disagree. You have =
the link state vision of the whole SPRING network. That=A1=AFs the =A1=B0mo=
de=A1=B1 which provides the more information.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quo=
t;;color:black">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt=
;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Speci=
fically,
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tah=
oma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&=
quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&=
quot;;color:#1F497D">You know that the egress is =A1=B0up=A1=B1 and that al=
l nodes on the way are
 also =A1=B0up=A1=B1 and ready (I do mean from a SPRING/MPLS standpoint).</=
span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahom=
a&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Obviously, this is a control p=
lan vision only. If you want to check the FIB, you will need to test it (e.=
g. LSP Ping)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&=
quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Best Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&=
quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Robin<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&=
quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&=
quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span=
 style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:b=
lack">
<hr size=3D"2" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center">
</span></div>
<div id=3D"divRpF312182">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span lang=3D"ZH-C=
N" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;color:black">=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB</span></b><b><=
span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot=
;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" styl=
e=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;=
;color:black">
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><a href=3D"mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com"=
><span lang=3D"EN-US">bruno.decraene@orange.com</span></a></span><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;s=
ans-serif&quot;;color:black">
 [bruno.decraene@or</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">ange.com]<br>
</span><b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;color:black">=B7=
=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4</span></b><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">:</span></b><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif=
&quot;;color:black"> 2015</span><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:10.=
0pt;color:black">=C4=EA</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&=
quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">1</span><span lang=3D=
"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;color:black">=D4=C2</span><span style=3D"=
font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;colo=
r:black">15</span><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;color:blac=
k">=C8=D5</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&qu=
ot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">
 23:56<br>
</span><b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;color:black">=CA=
=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB</span></b><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">:</span></b><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;=
;color:black"> Lizhenbin;
<a href=3D"mailto:spring@ietf.org">spring@ietf.org</a><br>
</span><b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;color:black">=D6=
=F7=CC=E2</span></b><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">:</span></b><span style=3D"f=
ont-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color=
:black"> RE: New
 Comments on Segment Routing(1): Challenge of Ordered mode for SR-BE Path a=
nd Incremental Deployment</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New =
Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Hi Robin,</span><span sty=
le=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Thanks for=
 your interest on SR/SPRING.</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Please see inline. [Bruno=
]</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">From:</span></b><span sty=
le=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:black"> spring [<a href=3D"mailto:spring-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:s=
pring-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Lizhenbin<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, January 15, 2015 2:12 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:spring@ietf.org">spring@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [spring] New Comments on Segment Routing(1): Challenge of O=
rdered mode for SR-BE Path and Incremental Deployment</span><span style=3D"=
color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<div>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier;color:black">Hi all =
authors of segment routing,</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times Ne=
w Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;=
;color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier;color:black">When we=
 did research on segment routing and found some new issues. Could you help =
clarify if the analysis is right and
</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&q=
uot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier;color:black">how wil=
l they be taken into account in the design of SR.</span><span style=3D"font=
-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;=
;color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier;color:black">This is=
 the first issue.</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&qu=
ot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier;color:black">&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
(Non-SR)<br>
&nbsp; S11-----------S12----------S13---------S14<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |<br>
&nbsp; S21-----------S22----------S23---------S24<br>
&nbsp; <br>
As above topoloby, there are 8 nodes and assume all the metics of the links=
 are 1 and VPNs are deployed<br>
on S11/S21/S14/S24. </span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman=
&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier;color:black"><br>
If LDP is used as the tunnel for VPN on S11/S14, since LDP can support the =
ordered mode. The LSP for the S14 will be
<br>
setup as the order S14-&gt;S13-&gt;S12-&gt;S11 for distribution of label ma=
pping. And the shortest path for routes
<br>
to S14 is also S11-&gt;S12-&gt;S13-&gt;S14. So the end-to-end LSP to S14 is=
 setup. If one node (e.g. S13) does not
<br>
support LDP, according to LDP ordered mode, the end-to-end LSP cannot setup=
 since S12 does not receive the label<br>
mapping from the exact nexthop of the route, S13 and it will not distribute=
 the label mapping to S11. And the
</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&q=
uot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier;color:black">result =
is that the VPN on S11 cannot take the LSP&nbsp;since the LSP cannot setup =
on S11.&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,=
&quot;serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">[Bruno]</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quo=
t;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">My understanding of your case =
is the following, please correct me if I=A1=AFm wrong:</span><span style=3D=
"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:black"><o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">There is no SPRING/SR. All nod=
es support LDP. S11, S12, S14 use ordered mode. S13 use independent mode.</=
span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quo=
t;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;=
;color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">First, such cases happen today=
 in multiple vendor networks since different implementation used different =
options.</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot=
;serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Then, I believe that your unde=
rstanding of LDP independant mode&nbsp; is incorrect. In independent mode, =
S13 always advertises the S14 FEC to its neighbor, even if it
 don=A1=AFt gets a label mapping from its downstream S14. This FEC is then =
propagated to S11 in ordered mode.</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;T=
imes New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">As a result, S11 gets a label =
for S14 and will use S14 for the VPN. However in the forwarding plane the t=
raffic will be dropped on S13.</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times=
 New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">[Robin] It has explained in th=
e previous mail. Please rethink the case that S13 does not support LDP inst=
ead of that S13 support independent mode.</span><span style=3D"font-family:=
&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;=
;color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;=
;color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;=
;color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier;color=
:black">If SR-BE path is used as the tunnel for VPN on S11/S14 and assume t=
he S13
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier;color:black">can=
not support the SR, according to my
<br>
understanding, there will be an SR-BE path for the destination S14 which is=
 interrupted at S12. This is similar as
<br>
the independent mode of LDP. If this VPN takes this SR-BE Path at S11, the =
VPN traffic will be dropped at S12.</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;=
Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier;color:black">If the =
analysis is right. I have two questions:<br>
1. How will SR avoid such risk? Some enhancement on SR or just leave it to =
the local implmentation (For example,<br>
LSP ping is firstly used to check the connectivity)?</span><span style=3D"f=
ont-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">[Bruno] A priori, I could see =
3 answers</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quo=
t;serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">-a- I guess one could use IGP =
multi-topology to handle a different topology between the IP and the MPLS o=
ne. This is similar to IPv6 introduction in a IPv4 network.</span><span sty=
le=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:black=
"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">-b- Another option is to enabl=
e interworking between LDP and SR/SPRING to handle such incremental deploym=
ent. Please see the following draft for an introduction
 on this interworking: <a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-filsfil=
s-spring-segment-routing-ldp-interop-02" target=3D"_blank">
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-ldp-inter=
op-02</a> Comments are welcomed as I agree with you that=A1=AFs an importan=
t topic for brownfield incremental deployment</span><span style=3D"font-fam=
ily:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p><=
/span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">[Robin] I do not think multi-t=
opoloty and SR-LDP interop will propose can not solved the issued.</span><s=
pan lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot=
;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">[Bruno2] Not sure why you use =
double negation. But in short, you also believe this should work.<o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">[Robin]</span><span lang=3D"EN=
-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-s=
erif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">But the price is high. In fact=
, I have read the draft. But I do not think think it is an easy work accord=
ing to the past experience in the MPLS world. I will explain
 the possible work should be taken into account in the subsequent comments.=
 A small example, SR claimed it can replace the IGP-LDP sync. But as a deve=
loper, I am sure that the effort&nbsp;of implementation of SR-LDP interop i=
s much more than IGP-LDP sync. Can I
 say that in fact SR does not save our effort, but make more trouble?</span=
><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;c=
olor:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">[Bruno2] The use of SR-LDP int=
erwork allows incremental deployment of SR with inc</span><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#1F497D">remental
 benefit but is indeed an additional work. It is only needed in a multi-ven=
dor/plateform network&nbsp;when all nodes do not support SR, for a limited =
duration. It=A1=AFs not long term feature. If you ask me, I would rather no=
t have to use it, but it depends on the willing
 of vendors to implement the required IGP sub-TLVs. If we all agree that im=
plementing such sub-TLV is easier and better (or if you assume mono vendor =
deployment, which I don=A1=AFt) we won=A1=AFt need to deploy/implement LDP-=
SPRING interworking. This is a roadmap versus
 deployment date issue, so a bit out of scope of this mailing list. However=
, from the mailing list standpoint, the point is that this can be done (spe=
cified and implemented)</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&qu=
ot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">-c- Another option is to incre=
mentally deploy SR in addition to LDP and to prefer LDP for end to end LSP =
(using administrative distance). Then it=A1=AFs up to each SR
 application to see how much they can take benefit of partial SR deployment=
. e.g. FRR (TI-LFA, RLFA or DLFA) may/should be able to benefit from partia=
l deployment.</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,=
&quot;serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">[Robin] The difficulty is that=
 the ingress node cannot determine if the SR-BE path is end-to-end without =
extra methods which is unnecessary for the&nbsp;LDP already deployed
 in the whole network. </span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Ro=
man&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">[Bruno2] Again, No. please see
<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-exte=
nsions-03#section-3">
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions-03#s=
ection-3</a> The ingress knows, within its IGP area/level, all nodes which =
supports SPRING or not. This includes nodes on the SPT to the egress.<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&q=
uot;serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&q=
uot;serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">FYI, as of today/myself I say =
that =A1=B0b=A1=B1 is required and =A1=B0c=A1=B1 is nice to have.</span><sp=
an style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color=
:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier;color=
:black"><br>
2. Assume LDP is already deployed on all nodes in the network to bear VPN t=
raffic.
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier;color:black">Whe=
n SR-BE path is adopted in the<br>
network to replace LDP LSP, since there is the possible risk proposed by in=
terrupted SR-BE path and&nbsp;I do not think it
</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&q=
uot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier;color:black">is impo=
ssible to carefully determine the upgraded nodes.
</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&q=
uot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">[Bruno] I=A1=AFm not sure to c=
orrectly understand your last sentence. Within an AS (well area/level) It i=
s possible to identify nodes which are SR/SPRING compliant (or
 non compliant) as they advertise this in the link state IGP.</span><span s=
tyle=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:bla=
ck"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">[Robin]&nbsp;I agree your prop=
osed the incremental deployment method by IGP extension to identifed the SR=
-node. This is not what my objective. My case is to show that
 the scope of end-to-end LSP and the scope of the SR nodes is different. Th=
e incremental deployment of SR cause the issue for the end-to-end LSP.
</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&q=
uot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&q=
uot;serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"fon=
t-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:=
#1F497D">[Bruno2] I=A1=AFm not sure to see your point. In particular by =A1=
=B0end-to-end=A1=B1 to you
 mean within an area/level, or across ASes? Because as SPRING uses the IGP,=
 IGP frontiers makes a difference. Can you please rephrase or bring an non-=
working example?</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Time=
s New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&q=
uot;serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier;color=
:black">So the only choice is to upgrade all nodes to support SR all at onc=
e.</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif=
&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">[Bruno] No.</span><span style=
=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:black">=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">[Robin] I can agree you that i=
t may be necessary. But more details be taken into account and the price ma=
y be high and .</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot=
;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;=
;color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier;color=
:black">is that right that the incremental deployment of SR in such scenari=
o is difficult to adopt?</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New R=
oman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;=
;color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;san=
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<pre><span style=3D"color:black">__________________________________________=
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<PRE>______________________________________________________________________=
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Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou =
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This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf=
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From: <bruno.decraene@orange.com>
To: Lizhenbin <lizhenbin@huawei.com>, "spring@ietf.org" <spring@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: New Comments on Segment Routing(2): Challenge of Proxy Egress for SR-BE Path
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Hi Robin,

Thanks for your interest in SPRING/Segment Routing.
Please see inline [Bruno]

Regards,
Bruno

From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Lizhenbin
Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2015 7:28 AM
To: spring@ietf.org
Cc: mpls@ietf.org
Subject: [mpls] New Comments on Segment Routing(2): Challenge of Proxy Egre=
ss for SR-BE Path


Hi all authors of segment routing,



This is the second issue. In order for better understanding and discussion,=
 I include MPLS WG in the discussion.

I will propose one use case of LDP proxy egress: Inter-AS VPN Option C



  PE11--------ASBR11--------ASBR21-------PE21
   |             |            |           |
   |    AS1      |            |    AS2    |
   |             |            |           |
  PE12--------ASBR12--------ASBR22-------PE22

In this case, the label BGP(RFC3107) can advertise the label route for PE21=
 and PE22 from the ASBR in AS2 to the ASBR in AS1.
Some carriers prefers to use label BGP to go on to advertise the label rout=
e to PE11 and PE12. But some carriers do not like full
mesh BGP peers and three layer label for the traffic, they would redistribu=
te the BGP routes to IGP at ASBR11/ASBR12 and depend
on LDP to setup LDP LSP for the prefix PE21/PE22 in the AS1.



For the use case if the SR is adopted, there may propose following challeng=
es:
1. How to configure the SID/label for these proxy egress addresses?

[Bruno] I a priori see 3 options, but this is open for discussion

1-      If you want to use MPLS hierarchy. ASBR1x advertise in IGP the SIDs=
/MPLS labels as local labels. PE11 will need to use a 2 label stack: Node_S=
ID(ASBR1x), Prefix_SID (PE2y).

2-      If you don't want to use MPLS hierarchy:

a.       ASBR1x only advertise the IP reachability. The SID mapping is adve=
rtised by the mapping server.

b.      Assuming AS2 also use SPRING, then the real issue is the redistribu=
tion between protocols. IGP->BGP->IGP. This can be done with a BGP extensio=
n to carry the SID. e.g. https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-keyupate-idr-bgp=
-prefix-sid-00





On both ASBR11 and ASBR22? If there more ASBRs, there will be more configur=
ation work. Is it right?

[Bruno] no, see above with 3 solutions. Others could be discussed if needed.

2. According to seamless MPLS, there may be 10,000 node addresses. If take =
the assumption, it will be a great configuration work.
3. The label route on the ASBR can be dymamic changed. Is there the case th=
at the more or less SID/Labels are configured?

[Bruno] I don't see what you mean.

If my understanding is right, comparing with the simple case with actual eg=
ress, there will be more challenge for the proxy egress

case for SR. In fact, there are more usecases of proxy egress:
1. C & C: Proxy egress for the VPN routes
2. Seamless MPLS: Proxy egress for the LDP DoD

[Bruno] For the downstream direction (signaling toward upstream), If you us=
e BGP, you can still use BGP. If you use IGP cf solutions 1 & 2.a above.

3. Some usecases which needs LDP node and Non-LDP node coexists.

I wonder if you have thought about the proxy egress scenarios and what is t=
he possible solution? If the proxy egress cannot be
supported, there will be more challenges:
1. LDP cannot be replaced by SR-BE path. In the above usecase, LDP Proxy Eg=
ress and SR actual egress may have to co-existed. It will

be too complexed and SR is totally unnecessary.
2. TI-FRR for the proxy egress case cannot supported either. But this case =
can be supported by other FRR solutions.

[Bruno] TI-FRR protects solutions using the IGP (1 & 2.a).

Node protecting BGP destination is possible (e.g. draft-minto-2547-egress-n=
ode-fast-protection) but this is a different story.



/Bruno

Hope to get your opinion on the progress egress for SR.



Regards,
Robin

___________________________________________________________________________=
______________________________________________

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 ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
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Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou =
falsifie. Merci.

This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf=
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they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Hi Robin,<=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Thanks for=
 your interest in SPRING/Segment Routing.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Please see=
 inline [Bruno]<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Regards,<o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Bruno<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p>
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4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> mpls [ma=
ilto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Lizhenbin<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, January 18, 2015 7:28 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> spring@ietf.org<br>
<b>Cc:</b> mpls@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [mpls] New Comments on Segment Routing(2): Challenge of Pro=
xy Egress for SR-BE Path<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier;color:black">Hi all =
authors of segment routing,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier;color:black">&nbsp;<=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier;color:black">This is=
 the second issue. In order for better understanding and discussion, I incl=
ude MPLS WG in the discussion.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier;color:black"><br>
I will propose one use case of LDP proxy egress: Inter-AS VPN Option C<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier;color:black">&nbsp;<=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier;color:black">&nbsp; =
PE11--------ASBR11--------ASBR21-------PE21<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; AS1&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp; AS2&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |<br>
&nbsp; PE12--------ASBR12--------ASBR22-------PE22<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier;color:black"><br>
In this case, the label BGP(RFC3107) can advertise the label route for PE21=
 and PE22 from the ASBR in AS2 to the ASBR in AS1.<br>
Some carriers prefers to use label BGP to go on to advertise the label rout=
e to PE11 and PE12. But some carriers do not like full<br>
mesh BGP peers and three layer label for the traffic, they would redistribu=
te the BGP routes to IGP at ASBR11/ASBR12 and depend
<br>
on LDP to setup LDP LSP for the prefix PE21/PE22 in the AS1.<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier;color:black">&nbsp;<=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier;color:black">For the=
 use case if the SR is adopted, there may propose following challenges:<br>
1. How to configure the SID/label for these proxy egress addresses?</span><=
span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier;color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">[Bruno] I a priori see 3 optio=
ns, but this is open for discussion<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"=
><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><span style=
=3D"mso-list:Ignore">1-<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot=
;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0=
pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">If=
 you want to use MPLS hierarchy. ASBR1x advertise in IGP the SIDs/MPLS labe=
ls as local labels. PE11 will need to use a 2 label stack:
 Node_SID(ASBR1x), Prefix_SID (PE2y).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"=
><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><span style=
=3D"mso-list:Ignore">2-<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot=
;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0=
pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">If=
 you don&#8217;t want to use MPLS hierarchy:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo1"=
><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><span style=
=3D"mso-list:Ignore">a.<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot=
;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0=
pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">AS=
BR1x only advertise the IP reachability. The SID mapping is advertised by t=
he mapping server.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo1"=
><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><span style=
=3D"mso-list:Ignore">b.<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot=
;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0=
pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">As=
suming AS2 also use SPRING, then the real issue is the redistribution betwe=
en protocols. IGP-&gt;BGP-&gt;IGP. This can be done with a BGP
 extension to carry the SID. e.g. <a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/dr=
aft-keyupate-idr-bgp-prefix-sid-00">
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-keyupate-idr-bgp-prefix-sid-00</a><o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:72.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.=
0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier;color=
:black">On both ASBR11 and ASBR22? If there more ASBRs, there will be</span=
><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier;color:#=
1F497D">
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier;c=
olor:black">more configuration work.
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier;color:black">Is =
it right?</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier;color:#=
1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">[Bruno] no, see above with 3 s=
olutions. Others could be discussed if needed.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier;color=
:black"><br>
2. According to seamless MPLS, there may be 10,000 node addresses. </span><=
span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier;color:black">If take the=
 assumption, it will be a great configuration work.<br>
3. The label route on the ASBR can be dymamic changed. Is there the case th=
at the more or less SID/Labels are configured?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">[Bruno] I don&#8217;t see what=
 you mean.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier;color=
:black">If my understanding is right, comparing with the simple case with a=
ctual egress, there will be more challenge for the proxy egress
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier;color:black">case fo=
r SR. In fact, there are more usecases of proxy egress:<br>
1. C &amp; C: Proxy egress for the VPN routes<br>
2. Seamless MPLS: Proxy egress for the LDP DoD<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">[Bruno] For the downstream dir=
ection (signaling toward upstream), If you use BGP, you can still use BGP. =
If you use IGP cf solutions 1 &amp; 2.a above.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier;color:black">3. Some=
 usecases which needs LDP node and Non-LDP node coexists.<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier;color:black">I wonde=
r if you have thought about the proxy egress scenarios and what is the poss=
ible solution? If the proxy egress cannot be
<br>
supported, there will be more challenges:<br>
1. LDP cannot be replaced by SR-BE path. In the above usecase, LDP Proxy Eg=
ress and SR actual egress may have to co-existed. It will
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier;color:black">be too =
complexed and SR is totally unnecessary.<br>
2. TI-FRR for the proxy egress case cannot supported either. But this case =
can be supported by other FRR solutions.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">[Bruno] TI-FRR protects soluti=
ons using the IGP (1 &amp; 2.a).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Node protecting BGP destinatio=
n is possible (e.g. draft-minto-2547-egress-node-fast-protection) but this =
is a different story.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">/Bruno</span><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier;color:black">&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier;color=
:black">Hope to get your opinion on the progress egress for SR.<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier;color=
:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier;color=
:black"><br>
Regards,<br>
Robin</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quo=
t;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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10pt;">
<p>Hi Bruno,</p>
<p>Please refer to my inline comments identified with '[Robin]'.</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>Regards,</p>
<p>Robin</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 16px=
">
<hr tabindex=3D"-1">
<div style=3D"DIRECTION: ltr" id=3D"divRpF764870"><font color=3D"#000000" s=
ize=3D"2" face=3D"Tahoma"><b>=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB:</b> bruno.decraene@orange.=
com [bruno.decraene@orange.com]<br>
<b>=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4:</b> 2015=C4=EA1=D4=C218=C8=D5 18:13<br>
<b>=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB:</b> Lizhenbin; spring@ietf.org<br>
<b>=D6=F7=CC=E2:</b> RE: New Comments on Segment Routing(1): Challenge of O=
rdered mode for SR-BE Path and Incremental Deployment<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div></div>
<div>
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; =
COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">Hi Robin,</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; =
COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; =
COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">Please see inline [Bruno2]<=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; =
COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; =
COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">Regards,</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; =
COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">Bruno</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; =
COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<div style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: blue 1.5pt solid; PA=
DDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 0cm; BORDER-TOP: mediu=
m none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0cm">
<div>
<div style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING=
-BOTTOM: 0cm; PADDING-LEFT: 0cm; PADDING-RIGHT: 0cm; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1p=
t solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'=
; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</span></b><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sa=
ns-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> Lizhenbin [mailto:lizhenbin@huawei.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, January 18, 2015 6:41 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> DECRAENE Bruno IMT/OLN; spring@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> ??: New Comments on Segment Routing(1): Challenge of Ordere=
d mode for SR-BE Path and Incremental Deployment</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
<div>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SI=
ZE: 10pt">Hi Bruno,</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SI=
ZE: 10pt">Please refer to my comments inline identified by '[Robin]'.
</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SI=
ZE: 10pt">For LDP, there are two LDP control modes:</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SI=
ZE: 10pt">-- Ordered&nbsp;mode: Depend on the egress and the downstream nod=
e</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SI=
ZE: 10pt">-- Independent mode: Depend on the downstream node.</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SI=
ZE: 10pt">In fact, SR is based on IGP and introduces one totally different =
mode which I called as flooding mode.</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SI=
ZE: 10pt">-- Flooding mode: Depend the node's self</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">[Bruno2] I=A1=AFm not sure to see what you mean=
 by =A1=B0depend=A1=B1.</span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-se=
rif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D"EN-US"></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">In LDP ordered mode, there is a signaling end t=
o end from the egress to the ingress, roughly a la =A1=B0distance vector=A1=
=B1.</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">In LDP independent mode, the signaling is limit=
ed to be 2 adjacent nodes (me, my downstream). So roughly no signaling.</sp=
an></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">In SPRING, the Link State paradigm is used. You=
 know the status of the egress and all the links&nbsp; &amp; nodes.</span><=
/p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">[Robin]
</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">1. The 'depend' means the label binding for the=
 nodes in segment routing is stable, after the label binding are flooded,&n=
bsp;for&nbsp;</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">every&nbsp;nodes in the network,&nbsp; once the=
re are the routes to the destination nodes address, the ingress LSP can be =
setup to be used</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">for VPN, etc. For LDP independent, even if the =
route is available, it has to wait for the label mapping from the downstrea=
m to
</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">setup the ingress LDP to be used for VPN, etc.
</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">2. I am not sure what's the link state paradigm=
 you mean? For LDP, it depends on IGP, it can also use the link state parad=
igm.</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">The only difference is that the segment routing=
 can use it conveniently since the label binding coexists with link state p=
aradigm.</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SI=
ZE: 10pt" lang=3D"EN-US">Comparing the there mode, the flooding mode is mor=
e independent.
</span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FON=
T-SIZE: 10pt">This means it is the essiest one to
</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SI=
ZE: 10pt">set up the interrupted LSP and leak the useless traffic into the =
network which will have negative effect
</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SI=
ZE: 10pt">on the normal traffic in the network.</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">[Bruno2] I disagree. You have the link state vi=
sion of the whole SPRING network. That=A1=AFs the =A1=B0mode=A1=B1 which pr=
ovides the more information.</span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sa=
ns-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;</span><span=
 style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 10=
pt" lang=3D"EN-US">Specifically,
</span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FON=
T-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D"EN-US"></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SI=
ZE: 10pt" lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma',=
'sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D"EN-US">You know that=
 the egress is =A1=B0up=A1=B1 and that all nodes on the
 way are also =A1=B0up=A1=B1 and ready (I do mean from a SPRING/MPLS standp=
oint).</span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: blac=
k; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D"EN-US"></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">Obviously, this is a control plan vision only. =
If you want to check the FIB, you will need to test it (e.g. LSP Ping)</spa=
n></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">[Robin]</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">I understand your point about the control plane=
 solution to some extent. In fact, I have also thought about solutions for =
the the possible
</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">interruption issues for SR-BE path.&nbsp;</span=
><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-S=
IZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">As to your suggested
 solution of the control plane, it can be done, but it has been the end-to-=
end path
</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">calculation like TE instead of the traditional
</span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; =
FONT-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">route path calculation.</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SI=
ZE: 10pt" lang=3D"EN-US">Best Regards,</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SI=
ZE: 10pt" lang=3D"EN-US">Robin</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SI=
ZE: 10pt" lang=3D"EN-US"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SI=
ZE: 10pt" lang=3D"EN-US"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<div>
<div style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: center" class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center"><spa=
n style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'; COLOR: black">
<hr align=3D"center" size=3D"2" width=3D"100%">
</span></div>
<div id=3D"divRpF312182">
<p style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"COLO=
R: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D"ZH-CN">=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB</span></b><b><=
span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt" lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans=
-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D"EN-US">
</span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FON=
T-SIZE: 10pt"><a href=3D"mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com" target=3D"_blank=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">bruno.decraene@orange.com</span></a></span><span sty=
le=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" la=
ng=3D"EN-US">
 [bruno.decraene@or</span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'=
; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">ange.com]<br>
</span><b><span style=3D"COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D"ZH-CN">=B7=
=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4</span></b><b><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sa=
ns-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">:</span></b><span style=3D"FONT-F=
AMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">
 2015</span><span style=3D"COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D"ZH-CN">=
=C4=EA</span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: blac=
k; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">1</span><span style=3D"COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" l=
ang=3D"ZH-CN">=D4=C2</span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif=
'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">15</span><span style=3D"COLOR: black; FON=
T-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D"ZH-CN">=C8=D5</span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Taho=
ma','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">
 23:56<br>
</span><b><span style=3D"COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D"ZH-CN">=CA=
=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB</span></b><b><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-ser=
if'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">:</span></b><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:=
 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">
 Lizhenbin; <a href=3D"mailto:spring@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">spring@iet=
f.org</a><br>
</span><b><span style=3D"COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D"ZH-CN">=D6=
=F7=CC=E2</span></b><b><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; C=
OLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">:</span></b><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Taho=
ma','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> RE:
 New Comments on Segment Routing(1): Challenge of Ordered mode for SR-BE Pa=
th and Incremental Deployment</span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New =
Roman','serif'; COLOR: black"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; =
COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Hi Robin,</span><span style=3D"COLOR: blac=
k"></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; =
COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">Thanks for your interest on=
 SR/SPRING.</span><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; =
COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Please see inline. [Bruno]</span><span sty=
le=3D"COLOR: black"></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<div style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: blue 1.5pt solid; PA=
DDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 0cm; BORDER-TOP: mediu=
m none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0cm">
<div>
<div style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING=
-BOTTOM: 0cm; PADDING-LEFT: 0cm; PADDING-RIGHT: 0cm; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1p=
t solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'=
; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</span></b><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY=
: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> spring [<a href=3D=
"mailto:spring-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">mailto:spring-bounces@ie=
tf.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Lizhenbin<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, January 15, 2015 2:12 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:spring@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">spring@ietf=
.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [spring] New Comments on Segment Routing(1): Challenge of O=
rdered mode for SR-BE Path and Incremental Deployment</span><span style=3D"=
COLOR: black"></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"COLOR: black"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<div>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Courier; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Hi a=
ll authors of segment routing,</span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New=
 Roman','serif'; COLOR: black"></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'; COLOR: black"></s=
pan>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Courier; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">When=
 we did research on segment routing and found some new issues. Could you he=
lp clarify if the analysis is right and
</span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'; COLOR: black"=
></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Courier; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">how =
will they be taken into account in the design of SR.</span><span style=3D"F=
ONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'; COLOR: black"></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'; COLOR: black"></s=
pan>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Courier; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">This=
 is the first issue.</span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','s=
erif'; COLOR: black"></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Courier; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p; (Non-SR)<br>
&nbsp; S11-----------S12----------S13---------S14<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |<br>
&nbsp; S21-----------S22----------S23---------S24<br>
&nbsp; <br>
As above topoloby, there are 8 nodes and assume all the metics of the links=
 are 1 and VPNs are deployed<br>
on S11/S21/S14/S24. </span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','s=
erif'; COLOR: black"></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Courier; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><br>
If LDP is used as the tunnel for VPN on S11/S14, since LDP can support the =
ordered mode. The LSP for the S14 will be
<br>
setup as the order S14-&gt;S13-&gt;S12-&gt;S11 for distribution of label ma=
pping. And the shortest path for routes
<br>
to S14 is also S11-&gt;S12-&gt;S13-&gt;S14. So the end-to-end LSP to S14 is=
 setup. If one node (e.g. S13) does not
<br>
support LDP, according to LDP ordered mode, the end-to-end LSP cannot setup=
 since S12 does not receive the label<br>
mapping from the exact nexthop of the route, S13 and it will not distribute=
 the label mapping to S11. And the
</span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'; COLOR: black"=
></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Courier; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">resu=
lt is that the VPN on S11 cannot take the LSP&nbsp;since the LSP cannot set=
up on S11.&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif=
'; COLOR: black"></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt">[Bruno]</span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','s=
erif'; COLOR: black"></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">My understanding of your case is the following,=
 please correct me if I=A1=AFm wrong:</span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Ti=
mes New Roman','serif'; COLOR: black"></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">There is no SPRING/SR. All nodes support LDP. S=
11, S12, S14 use ordered mode. S13 use independent mode.</span><span style=
=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'; COLOR: black"></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'; COLOR: black"></s=
pan>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">First, such cases happen today in multiple vend=
or networks since different implementation used different options.</span><s=
pan style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'; COLOR: black"></span><=
/p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">Then, I believe that your understanding of LDP =
independant mode&nbsp; is incorrect. In independent mode, S13 always advert=
ises the S14 FEC to its neighbor, even if
 it don=A1=AFt gets a label mapping from its downstream S14. This FEC is th=
en propagated to S11 in ordered mode.</span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Ti=
mes New Roman','serif'; COLOR: black"></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">As a result, S11 gets a label for S14 and will =
use S14 for the VPN. However in the forwarding plane the traffic will be dr=
opped on S13.</span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'; =
COLOR: black"></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">[Robin] It has explained in the previous mail. =
Please rethink the case that S13 does not support LDP instead of that S13 s=
upport independent mode.</span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman=
','serif'; COLOR: black"></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'; COLOR: black"></s=
pan>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'; COLOR: black"></s=
pan>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'; COLOR: black"></s=
pan>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Courier; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=
=3D"EN-US">If SR-BE path is used as the tunnel for VPN on S11/S14 and assum=
e the S13
</span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Courier; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">=
cannot support the SR, according to my
<br>
understanding, there will be an SR-BE path for the destination S14 which is=
 interrupted at S12. This is similar as
<br>
the independent mode of LDP. If this VPN takes this SR-BE Path at S11, the =
VPN traffic will be dropped at S12.</span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Time=
s New Roman','serif'; COLOR: black"></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Courier; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">If t=
he analysis is right. I have two questions:<br>
1. How will SR avoid such risk? Some enhancement on SR or just leave it to =
the local implmentation (For example,<br>
LSP ping is firstly used to check the connectivity)?</span><span style=3D"F=
ONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'; COLOR: black"></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">[Bruno] A priori, I could see 3 answers</span><=
span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'; COLOR: black"></span>=
</p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">-a- I guess one could use IGP multi-topology to=
 handle a different topology between the IP and the MPLS one. This is simil=
ar to IPv6 introduction in a IPv4 network.</span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY=
: 'Times New Roman','serif'; COLOR: black"></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">-b- Another option is to enable interworking be=
tween LDP and SR/SPRING to handle such incremental deployment. Please see t=
he following draft for an introduction
 on this interworking: <a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-filsfil=
s-spring-segment-routing-ldp-interop-02" target=3D"_blank">
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-ldp-inter=
op-02</a> Comments are welcomed as I agree with you that=A1=AFs an importan=
t topic for brownfield incremental deployment</span><span style=3D"FONT-FAM=
ILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'; COLOR: black"></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">[Robin] I do not think multi-topoloty and SR-LD=
P interop will propose can not solved the issued.</span><span style=3D"FONT=
-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"E=
N-US"></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">[Bruno2] Not sure why you use double negation. =
But in short, you also believe this should work.</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">[Robin]</span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Cali=
bri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US"></span><=
/p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">But the price is high. In fact, I have read the=
 draft. But I do not think think it is an easy work according to the past e=
xperience in the MPLS world. I will
 explain the possible work should be taken into account in the subsequent c=
omments. A small example, SR claimed it can replace the IGP-LDP sync. But a=
s a developer, I am sure that the effort&nbsp;of implementation of SR-LDP i=
nterop is much more than IGP-LDP sync.
 Can I say that in fact SR does not save our effort, but make more trouble?=
</span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'; COLOR: black"=
></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">[Bruno2] The use of SR-LDP interwork allows inc=
remental deployment of SR with inc</span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calib=
ri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">remental
 benefit but is indeed an additional work. It is only needed in a multi-ven=
dor/plateform network&nbsp;when all nodes do not support SR, for a limited =
duration. It=A1=AFs not long term feature. If you ask me, I would rather no=
t have to use it, but it depends on the willing
 of vendors to implement the required IGP sub-TLVs. If we all agree that im=
plementing such sub-TLV is easier and better (or if you assume mono vendor =
deployment, which I don=A1=AFt) we won=A1=AFt need to deploy/implement LDP-=
SPRING interworking. This is a roadmap versus
 deployment date issue, so a bit out of scope of this mailing list. However=
, from the mailing list standpoint, the point is that this can be done (spe=
cified and implemented)</span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'=
,'serif'; COLOR: black" lang=3D"EN-US"></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">-c- Another option is to incrementally deploy S=
R in addition to LDP and to prefer LDP for end to end LSP (using administra=
tive distance). Then it=A1=AFs up to each
 SR application to see how much they can take benefit of partial SR deploym=
ent. e.g. FRR (TI-LFA, RLFA or DLFA) may/should be able to benefit from par=
tial deployment.</span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif=
'; COLOR: black"></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">[Robin] The difficulty is that the ingress node=
 cannot determine if the SR-BE path is end-to-end without extra methods whi=
ch is unnecessary for the&nbsp;LDP already
 deployed in the whole network. </span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Times N=
ew Roman','serif'; COLOR: black"></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">[Bruno2] Again, No. please see
<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-exte=
nsions-03#section-3" target=3D"_blank">
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions-03#s=
ection-3</a> The ingress knows, within its IGP area/level, all nodes which =
supports SPRING or not. This includes nodes on the SPT to the egress.</span=
></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'; COLOR: #1f497d" l=
ang=3D"EN-US"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'; COLOR: black" lan=
g=3D"EN-US"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">FYI, as of today/myself I say that =A1=B0b=A1=
=B1 is required and =A1=B0c=A1=B1 is nice to have.</span><span style=3D"FON=
T-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'; COLOR: black"></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Courier; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=
=3D"EN-US"><br>
2. Assume LDP is already deployed on all nodes in the network to bear VPN t=
raffic.
</span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Courier; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">=
When SR-BE path is adopted in the<br>
network to replace LDP LSP, since there is the possible risk proposed by in=
terrupted SR-BE path and&nbsp;I do not think it
</span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'; COLOR: black"=
></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Courier; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">is i=
mpossible to carefully determine the upgraded nodes.
</span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'; COLOR: black"=
></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">[Bruno] I=A1=AFm not sure to correctly understa=
nd your last sentence. Within an AS (well area/level) It is possible to ide=
ntify nodes which are SR/SPRING compliant
 (or non compliant) as they advertise this in the link state IGP.</span><sp=
an style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'; COLOR: black"></span></=
p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">[Robin]&nbsp;I agree your proposed the incremen=
tal deployment method by IGP extension to identifed the SR-node. This is no=
t what my objective. My case is to show that
 the scope of end-to-end LSP and the scope of the SR nodes is different. Th=
e incremental deployment of SR cause the issue for the end-to-end LSP.
</span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'; COLOR: black"=
></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'; COLOR: black" lan=
g=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'=
; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">[Bruno2] I=A1=AFm not sur=
e to see your point. In particular by =A1=B0end-to-end=A1=B1
 to you mean within an area/level, or across ASes? Because as SPRING uses t=
he IGP, IGP frontiers makes a difference. Can you please rephrase or bring =
an non-working example?</span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'=
,'serif'; COLOR: black" lang=3D"EN-US"></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'; COLOR: black" lan=
g=3D"EN-US"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Courier; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=
=3D"EN-US">So the only choice is to upgrade all nodes to support SR all at =
once.</span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'; COLOR: b=
lack"></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">[Bruno] No.</span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: '=
Times New Roman','serif'; COLOR: black"></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">[Robin] I can agree you that it may be necessar=
y. But more details be taken into account and the price may be high and .</=
span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'; COLOR: black"><=
/span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'; COLOR: black"></s=
pan>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Courier; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=
=3D"EN-US">is that right that the incremental deployment of SR in such scen=
ario is difficult to adopt?</span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Ro=
man','serif'; COLOR: black"></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'; COLOR: black"></s=
pan>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'; COLOR: black"></s=
pan>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'; COLOR: black"></s=
pan>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SI=
ZE: 10pt">Regards,</span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','ser=
if'; COLOR: black"></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SI=
ZE: 10pt">Zhenbin(Robin)</span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman=
','serif'; COLOR: black"></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<pre><span style=3D"COLOR: black">_________________________________________=
___________________________________________________________________________=
_____</span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"COLOR: black">&nbsp;</span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"COLOR: black">Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent =
contenir des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent don=
c</span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"COLOR: black">pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sa=
ns autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signa=
ler</span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"COLOR: black">a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que l=
es pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alterati=
on,</span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"COLOR: black">Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce=
 message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci.</span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"COLOR: black">&nbsp;</span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"COLOR: black">This message and its attachments may cont=
ain confidential or privileged information that may be protected by law;</s=
pan></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"COLOR: black">they should not be distributed, used or c=
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<pre><span style=3D"COLOR: black">If you have received this email in error,=
 please notify the sender and delete this message and its attachments.</spa=
n></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"COLOR: black">As emails may be altered, Orange is not l=
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re>
<pre><span style=3D"COLOR: black">Thank you.</span></pre>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<pre>______________________________________________________________________=
___________________________________________________

Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden=
tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu=
 ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el=
ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou =
falsifie. Merci.

This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf=
ormation that may be protected by law;
they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele=
te this message and its attachments.
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Thank you.
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<div style=3D"direction: ltr;font-family: Tahoma;color: #000000;font-size: =
10pt;">
<p>Hi Bruno,</p>
<p>Please see inline [Robin]. I clarify my challenges. Hope you rethink it.=
</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>Thanks &amp; Regards,</p>
<p>Robin</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 16px=
">
<hr tabindex=3D"-1">
<div style=3D"DIRECTION: ltr" id=3D"divRpF468112"><font color=3D"#000000" s=
ize=3D"2" face=3D"Tahoma"><b>=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB:</b> bruno.decraene@orange.=
com [bruno.decraene@orange.com]<br>
<b>=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4:</b> 2015=C4=EA1=D4=C218=C8=D5 18:39<br>
<b>=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB:</b> Lizhenbin; spring@ietf.org<br>
<b>=B3=AD=CB=CD:</b> mpls@ietf.org<br>
<b>=D6=F7=CC=E2:</b> RE: New Comments on Segment Routing(2): Challenge of P=
roxy Egress for SR-BE Path<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div></div>
<div>
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; =
COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">Hi Robin,</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; =
COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; =
COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">Thanks for your interest in=
 SPRING/Segment Routing.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; =
COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">Please see inline [Bruno]</=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; =
COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; =
COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">Regards,</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; =
COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">Bruno</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; =
COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<div style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: blue 1.5pt solid; PA=
DDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 0cm; BORDER-TOP: mediu=
m none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0cm">
<div>
<div style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING=
-BOTTOM: 0cm; PADDING-LEFT: 0cm; PADDING-RIGHT: 0cm; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1p=
t solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'=
; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</span></b><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sa=
ns-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Lizhenbin<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, January 18, 2015 7:28 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> spring@ietf.org<br>
<b>Cc:</b> mpls@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [mpls] New Comments on Segment Routing(2): Challenge of Pro=
xy Egress for SR-BE Path</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
<div>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Courier; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Hi a=
ll authors of segment routing,</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Courier; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></sp=
an>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Courier; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">This=
 is the second issue. In order for better understanding and discussion, I i=
nclude MPLS WG in the discussion.</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Courier; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><br>
I will propose one use case of LDP proxy egress: Inter-AS VPN Option C</spa=
n></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Courier; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></sp=
an>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Courier; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">&nbs=
p; PE11--------ASBR11--------ASBR21-------PE21<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; AS1&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp; AS2&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |<br>
&nbsp; PE12--------ASBR12--------ASBR22-------PE22</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Courier; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><br>
In this case, the label BGP(RFC3107) can advertise the label route for PE21=
 and PE22 from the ASBR in AS2 to the ASBR in AS1.<br>
Some carriers prefers to use label BGP to go on to advertise the label rout=
e to PE11 and PE12. But some carriers do not like full<br>
mesh BGP peers and three layer label for the traffic, they would redistribu=
te the BGP routes to IGP at ASBR11/ASBR12 and depend
<br>
on LDP to setup LDP LSP for the prefix PE21/PE22 in the AS1.</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Courier; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></sp=
an>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Courier; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">For =
the use case if the SR is adopted, there may propose following challenges:<=
br>
1. How to configure the SID/label for these proxy egress addresses?</span><=
span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Courier; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></span=
></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">[Bruno] I a priori see 3 options, but this is o=
pen for discussion</span></p>
<p style=3D"TEXT-INDENT: -18pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMI=
LY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US"=
><span>1-<span style=3D"FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; CO=
LOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">If you want to use MPLS hiera=
rchy. ASBR1x advertise in IGP the SIDs/MPLS labels as local labels. PE11 wi=
ll need to use a 2 label stack: Node_SID(ASBR1x),
 Prefix_SID (PE2y).</span></p>
<p style=3D"TEXT-INDENT: -18pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMI=
LY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US"=
><span>2-<span style=3D"FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; CO=
LOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">If you don=A1=AFt want to use=
 MPLS hierarchy:</span></p>
<p style=3D"TEXT-INDENT: -18pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 72pt"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMI=
LY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US"=
><span>a.<span style=3D"FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; CO=
LOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">ASBR1x only advertise the IP =
reachability. The SID mapping is advertised by the mapping server.</span></=
p>
<p style=3D"TEXT-INDENT: -18pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 72pt"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMI=
LY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US"=
><span>b.<span style=3D"FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; CO=
LOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">Assuming AS2 also use SPRING,=
 then the real issue is the redistribution between protocols. IGP-&gt;BGP-&=
gt;IGP. This can be done with a BGP extension
 to carry the SID. e.g. <a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-keyupa=
te-idr-bgp-prefix-sid-00" target=3D"_blank">
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-keyupate-idr-bgp-prefix-sid-00</a></span>=
</p>
<p style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 72pt"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-=
serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">[Robin] My objective is not to persue the solut=
ion. My proposed challenges is as follows:</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">1) In order to support proxy egress for SR-BE p=
ath, we have to configure the SID/label for the proxy egress nodes, so whic=
h ASBR we should to choose to configure
 these SID/label bindings?</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">2) If there are 10,000 proxy egress addresses p=
roposed by seamless MPLS, this means we have to configure 10,000 SID/label =
bindings on one ASBR? The huge configuration
 work cannot be accepted according to my understanding.</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">3) Since the proxy egress is learned from outsi=
de of the network, if configure the static the SID/label for a specific pro=
xy egress, but the proxy egress is not
 learned, the SID/label is wasted. If not </span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">configured, but the proxy egress is learned, th=
e SR-BE path does not work. How to cope with the issues?</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Courier; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=
=3D"EN-US">On both ASBR11 and ASBR22? If there more ASBRs, there will be</s=
pan><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Courier; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" l=
ang=3D"EN-US">
</span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Courier; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" =
lang=3D"EN-US">more configuration work.
</span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Courier; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">=
Is it right?</span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Courier; COLOR: #1f497d; FON=
T-SIZE: 10pt"></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">[Bruno] no, see above with 3 solutions. Others =
could be discussed if needed.
</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Courier; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=
=3D"EN-US"><br>
2. According to seamless MPLS, there may be 10,000 node addresses. </span><=
span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Courier; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">If take =
the assumption, it will be a great configuration work.<br>
3. The label route on the ASBR can be dymamic changed. Is there the case th=
at the more or less SID/Labels are configured?</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">[Bruno] I don=A1=AFt see what you mean.</span><=
/p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Courier; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=
=3D"EN-US">If my understanding is right, comparing with the simple case wit=
h actual egress, there will be more challenge for the proxy egress
</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Courier; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">case=
 for SR. In fact, there are more usecases of proxy egress:<br>
1. C &amp; C: Proxy egress for the VPN routes<br>
2. Seamless MPLS: Proxy egress for the LDP DoD</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">[Bruno] For the downstream direction (signaling=
 toward upstream), If you use BGP, you can still use BGP. If you use IGP cf=
 solutions 1 &amp; 2.a above.</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Courier; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">3. S=
ome usecases which needs LDP node and Non-LDP node coexists.</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Courier; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">I wo=
nder if you have thought about the proxy egress scenarios and what is the p=
ossible solution? If the proxy egress cannot be
<br>
supported, there will be more challenges:<br>
1. LDP cannot be replaced by SR-BE path. In the above usecase, LDP Proxy Eg=
ress and SR actual egress may have to co-existed. It will
</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Courier; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">be t=
oo complexed and SR is totally unnecessary.<br>
2. TI-FRR for the proxy egress case cannot supported either. But this case =
can be supported by other FRR solutions.</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">[Bruno] TI-FRR protects solutions using the IGP=
 (1 &amp; 2.a).</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">Node protecting BGP destination is possible (e.=
g. draft-minto-2547-egress-node-fast-protection) but this is a different st=
ory.</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT=
-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">/Bruno</span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Courie=
r; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Courier; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=
=3D"EN-US">Hope to get your opinion on the progress egress for SR.</span></=
p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Courier; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=
=3D"EN-US"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Courier; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=
=3D"EN-US"><br>
Regards,<br>
Robin</span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: black=
; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D"EN-US"></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<pre>______________________________________________________________________=
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Thread-Topic: New Comments on Segment Routing(3): Challenge of DoD and Inter-area extensions for SR-BE Path
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<p><font face=3D"Courier">Hi all authors of segment routing,</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">This is the third comments.</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<font face=3D"Courier">
<p><br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp; &#43;-------&#43;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#43;-------&#43;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#43;------=
&#43;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#43;------&#43;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nb=
sp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#43;--&#43; A=
GN11 &#43;---&#43; AGN21 &#43;---&#43; ABR1 &#43;---&#43; LSR1 &#43;--&gt; =
to AGN<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; /&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp; /|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; &#43;----&#43;/&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#43;-------&#43;\/ &#43;---=
----&#43;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#43;------&#43;&nbsp; /&#43;------&#43;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; | AN |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; /\&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; \/&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; &#43;----&#43;\&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#43;-------&#43;&nbsp; \&#4=
3;-------&#43;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#43;------&#43;/\ &#43;------&#43;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; \&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp; \|&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#43;--&#43; A=
GN12 &#43;---&#43; AGN22 &#43;---&#43; ABR2 &#43;---&#43; LSR2 &#43;--&gt; =
to AGN<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nb=
sp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp; &#43;-------&#43;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#43;-------&#43;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#43;------=
&#43;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#43;------&#43;</p>
<p>&nbsp;&nbsp; static route&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ISIS L1&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 ISIS L2 <br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; LDP DoD&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
LDP DU&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; LDP DU<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;-Access-&gt;&lt;--Aggregation Domain--&gt;&lt;---------Cor=
e---------&gt;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; <br>
</p>
<p>Seamless MPLS has been proposed as one important architecture for networ=
k integration. As show in the
<br>
above the figure. In the access network between AN and AGNs, static route a=
nd LDP DoD are adopted.
<br>
There even more fetures related LDP in the scenarios: LDP proxy egress on A=
GN and Inter-area extensions<br>
&nbsp;of LDP. The challenge of proxy egress for SR has been proposed in the=
 previous comments. I would like
<br>
to discuss the other two issues:<br>
1. LDP DoD: In this scenarios, LDP DoD is adopted to set up LSP on demand w=
hich can controlled the number<br>
of LSP. The control can be applied in the ingress node combing with the ser=
vice supported(e.g. in the case,<br>
if the configured LDP remote peer for PW service can trigger LDP DoD to sen=
d label request in AN). But for<br>
SR, its floods the label mapping in the network. If hope to control the set=
up of LSP, the complex policy
</p>
<p>must be applied on multiple nodes.<br>
2. RFC5283 proposes the LDP inter-area extensions. That is, when search rou=
tes for the received labelp mapping,<br>
longest-match method can also be adopted besides the exact match. Could you=
 define clearly for SR what method
</p>
<p>is adopted for SR-BE path? Could you explain the effects proposed by dif=
ferent methods if you had taken into
</p>
<p>account the issue?</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>Regards,<br>
Robin</p>
<p></font>&nbsp;</p>
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Thread-Topic: New Comments on Segment Routing(4): Challenge of Route Dependency for SR-BE Path
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--_000_5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D4772808Ankgeml506mbxchi_
Content-Type: text/html; charset="gb2312"
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<style id=3D"owaParaStyle">P {
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<div style=3D"direction: ltr;font-family: Tahoma;color: #000000;font-size: =
10pt;">
<p><font face=3D"Courier">Hi all authors of segment routing,</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">This is the fourth comments. </font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">For LDP, when search route for the destination ad=
dress which is the FEC of the label mapping, it should search
<br>
the FIB in which the routes are selected from the static route, OSPF, ISIS,=
 BGP, etc based on the preferences.<br>
Now there is one question for SR-BE path, for example, if the SID/Label is =
advertised through OSPF, what type
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">of routes </font><font face=3D"Courier">should th=
e label mapping depend on when setup the SR-BE path?
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">I think there may be two choices: <br>
1. Only depend on the OSPF's own route; <br>
2. Like the LDP, depends on the selected route. </font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">I don't think it should be the Option 1. For exam=
ple, we configure static routes for all nodes along the path to<br>
a specific node which can be totally different from the OSPF routes to the =
node. If the static route has higher
<br>
priority than the OSPF&nbsp;and the SID/label is advertised by OSPF depends=
 on OSPF routes, there will be the
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">inconsistency between the&nbsp;</font><font face=
=3D"Courier">SR-BE path and the route path.
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">If the option 2 is adopted, it cannot be assumed =
that the label mapping and the route are in the same LSDB which
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">can be easily synchronized. There are two challen=
ges:<br>
1. The direct effect for the OSPF is that at the beginning it just download=
s it routes to the RIB for the route
<br>
selection. That is, it is the source of the route selection. But now owing =
to SR-BE path, it has to depend on
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">the result of the route selection.<br>
2. OSPF SR-BE path may depend on the routes from the static route, ISIS, BG=
P, etc. It is claimed that the SR can
<br>
remove the IGP-LDP sync. But according to this analysis, are there the poss=
ible risk we have to introduce the
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">OSPF-ISIS sync, OSPF-Static Route sync, OSPF-BGP =
sync? Or do you just think they are rare cases which should not</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">&nbsp;be taken into account? Hope you have had en=
ough analysis on this issue.
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">According to the&nbsp;comments on&nbsp;the depend=
ency,&nbsp;I hope you could specify clearly in the appropriate draft of seg=
ment</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">routing as to follows questions for SR-BE path wh=
ich is helpful for interoperability:<br>
-- depend on the longest match, or exact match, or both.<br>
-- depned on the SR protocol's own routes or the route selection resulte fr=
om multiple sources.</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">Regards,<br>
Robin</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D4772808Ankgeml506mbxchi_--


From nobody Wed Jan 21 23:46:58 2015
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From: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
To: Lizhenbin <lizhenbin@huawei.com>
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Subject: Re: [spring] New Comments on Segment Routing(4): Challenge of Route Dependency for SR-BE Path
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--001a1135f578ee5d40050d38df4e
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Hi Robin,

I think your question is not applicable to SR architecture.

The right SR analogy to LDP would *NOT* be hop by hop LDP like in your
example, but targeted (aka directed) LDP session. In those how to get to
FEC's address is just regular lookup in the RIB/FIB (global or vrf depends
on use case) and it does not matter what protocol src installed the route.

Also note that like in most LDP case SR "labels" or "IDs" are global so
regardless on which interface packet arrives (within given topology in case
of mt) the lookup result will be identical.

Rgs,
R.


On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 6:07 AM, Lizhenbin <lizhenbin@huawei.com> wrote:

>  Hi all authors of segment routing,
>
>
>
> This is the fourth comments.
>
>
>
> For LDP, when search route for the destination address which is the FEC of
> the label mapping, it should search
> the FIB in which the routes are selected from the static route, OSPF,
> ISIS, BGP, etc based on the preferences.
> Now there is one question for SR-BE path, for example, if the SID/Label is
> advertised through OSPF, what type
>
> of routes should the label mapping depend on when setup the SR-BE path?
>
>
>
> I think there may be two choices:
> 1. Only depend on the OSPF's own route;
> 2. Like the LDP, depends on the selected route.
>
>
>
> I don't think it should be the Option 1. For example, we configure static
> routes for all nodes along the path to
> a specific node which can be totally different from the OSPF routes to the
> node. If the static route has higher
> priority than the OSPF and the SID/label is advertised by OSPF depends on
> OSPF routes, there will be the
>
> inconsistency between the SR-BE path and the route path.
>
>
>
> If the option 2 is adopted, it cannot be assumed that the label mapping
> and the route are in the same LSDB which
>
> can be easily synchronized. There are two challenges:
> 1. The direct effect for the OSPF is that at the beginning it just
> downloads it routes to the RIB for the route
> selection. That is, it is the source of the route selection. But now owing
> to SR-BE path, it has to depend on
>
> the result of the route selection.
> 2. OSPF SR-BE path may depend on the routes from the static route, ISIS,
> BGP, etc. It is claimed that the SR can
> remove the IGP-LDP sync. But according to this analysis, are there the
> possible risk we have to introduce the
>
> OSPF-ISIS sync, OSPF-Static Route sync, OSPF-BGP sync? Or do you just
> think they are rare cases which should not
>
>  be taken into account? Hope you have had enough analysis on this issue.
>
>
>
> According to the comments on the dependency, I hope you could specify
> clearly in the appropriate draft of segment
>
> routing as to follows questions for SR-BE path which is helpful for
> interoperability:
> -- depend on the longest match, or exact match, or both.
> -- depned on the SR protocol's own routes or the route selection resulte
> from multiple sources.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Regards,
> Robin
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> spring mailing list
> spring@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
>
>

--001a1135f578ee5d40050d38df4e
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:courier =
new,monospace;font-size:small">Hi Robin,</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" =
style=3D"font-family:courier new,monospace;font-size:small"><br></div><div =
class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:courier new,monospace;font-siz=
e:small">I think your question is not applicable to SR architecture.=C2=A0<=
/div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:courier new,monospac=
e;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-fam=
ily:courier new,monospace;font-size:small">The right SR analogy to LDP woul=
d *NOT* be hop by hop LDP like in your example, but targeted (aka directed)=
 LDP session. In those how to get to FEC&#39;s address is just regular look=
up in the RIB/FIB (global or vrf depends on use case) and it does not matte=
r what protocol src installed the route.=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_def=
ault" style=3D"font-family:courier new,monospace;font-size:small"><br></div=
><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:courier new,monospace;fo=
nt-size:small">Also note that like in most LDP case SR &quot;labels&quot; o=
r &quot;IDs&quot; are global so regardless on which interface packet arrive=
s (within given topology in case of mt) the lookup result will be identical=
.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:courier new,monosp=
ace;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-f=
amily:courier new,monospace;font-size:small">Rgs,</div><div class=3D"gmail_=
default" style=3D"font-family:courier new,monospace;font-size:small">R.</di=
v><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:courier new,monospace;f=
ont-size:small"><br></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=
=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 6:07 AM, Lizhenbin <span dir=3D"lt=
r">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lizhenbin@huawei.com" target=3D"_blank">lizhenbin@=
huawei.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">




<div>
<div style=3D"direction:ltr;font-family:Tahoma;color:#000000;font-size:10pt=
">
<p><font face=3D"Courier">Hi all authors of segment routing,</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>=C2=A0</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">This is the fourth comments. </font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>=C2=A0</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">For LDP, when search route for the destination ad=
dress which is the FEC of the label mapping, it should search
<br>
the FIB in which the routes are selected from the static route, OSPF, ISIS,=
 BGP, etc based on the preferences.<br>
Now there is one question for SR-BE path, for example, if the SID/Label is =
advertised through OSPF, what type
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">of routes </font><font face=3D"Courier">should th=
e label mapping depend on when setup the SR-BE path?
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>=C2=A0</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">I think there may be two choices: <br>
1. Only depend on the OSPF&#39;s own route; <br>
2. Like the LDP, depends on the selected route. </font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>=C2=A0</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">I don&#39;t think it should be the Option 1. For =
example, we configure static routes for all nodes along the path to<br>
a specific node which can be totally different from the OSPF routes to the =
node. If the static route has higher
<br>
priority than the OSPF=C2=A0and the SID/label is advertised by OSPF depends=
 on OSPF routes, there will be the
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">inconsistency between the=C2=A0</font><font face=
=3D"Courier">SR-BE path and the route path.
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>=C2=A0</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">If the option 2 is adopted, it cannot be assumed =
that the label mapping and the route are in the same LSDB which
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">can be easily synchronized. There are two challen=
ges:<br>
1. The direct effect for the OSPF is that at the beginning it just download=
s it routes to the RIB for the route
<br>
selection. That is, it is the source of the route selection. But now owing =
to SR-BE path, it has to depend on
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">the result of the route selection.<br>
2. OSPF SR-BE path may depend on the routes from the static route, ISIS, BG=
P, etc. It is claimed that the SR can
<br>
remove the IGP-LDP sync. But according to this analysis, are there the poss=
ible risk we have to introduce the
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">OSPF-ISIS sync, OSPF-Static Route sync, OSPF-BGP =
sync? Or do you just think they are rare cases which should not</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">=C2=A0be taken into account? Hope you have had en=
ough analysis on this issue.
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>=C2=A0</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">According to the=C2=A0comments on=C2=A0the depend=
ency,=C2=A0I hope you could specify clearly in the appropriate draft of seg=
ment</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">routing as to follows questions for SR-BE path wh=
ich is helpful for interoperability:<br>
-- depend on the longest match, or exact match, or both.<br>
-- depned on the SR protocol&#39;s own routes or the route selection result=
e from multiple sources.</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>=C2=A0</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>=C2=A0</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>=C2=A0</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">Regards,<br>
Robin</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>=C2=A0</p>
</div>
</div>

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To: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Thread-Topic: [spring] New Comments on Segment Routing(4): Challenge of Route Dependency for SR-BE Path
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Content-Type: text/html; charset="gb2312"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html dir=3D"ltr">
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dgb2312">
<style id=3D"owaParaStyle">P {
	MARGIN-TOP: 0px; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0px
}
</style>
</head>
<body fPStyle=3D"1" ocsi=3D"0">
<div style=3D"direction: ltr;font-family: Tahoma;color: #000000;font-size: =
10pt;">
<p>Hi Robert,</p>
<p>Please refer to my inline '[Robin]'.</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>Regards,</p>
<p>Robin</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 16px=
">
<hr tabindex=3D"-1">
<div style=3D"DIRECTION: ltr" id=3D"divRpF296806"><font color=3D"#000000" s=
ize=3D"2" face=3D"Tahoma"><b>=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB:</b> rraszuk@gmail.com [rra=
szuk@gmail.com] =B4=FA=B1=ED Robert Raszuk [robert@raszuk.net]<br>
<b>=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4:</b> 2015=C4=EA1=D4=C222=C8=D5 15:46<br>
<b>=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB:</b> Lizhenbin<br>
<b>=B3=AD=CB=CD:</b> spring@ietf.org; mpls@ietf.org<br>
<b>=D6=F7=CC=E2:</b> Re: [spring] New Comments on Segment Routing(4): Chall=
enge of Route Dependency for SR-BE Path<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div></div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
Hi Robin,</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
I think your question is not applicable to SR architecture.&nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
The right SR analogy to LDP would *NOT* be hop by hop LDP like in your exam=
ple, but targeted (aka directed) LDP session.
</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
[Robin]&nbsp;I could not understand your point. No matter T-LDP or local LD=
P, they should lookup in the RIB/FIB to determine if the label mapping is a=
ctive.</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
In those how to get to FEC's address is just regular lookup in the RIB/FIB =
(global or vrf depends on use case) and it does not matter what protocol sr=
c installed the route.&nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
[Robin] As what you described, could I understand you means for the SR base=
d on a specific IGP(e.g. OSPF), it should look up in the RIB/FIB to determi=
ne if the label binding is up? If so, there will be the two route dependenc=
y change issues I proposed for the
 OSPF. Why do you think they are not applicable to SR?</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
&nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
&nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
Also note that like in most LDP case SR &quot;labels&quot; or &quot;IDs&quo=
t; are global so regardless on which interface packet arrives (within given=
 topology in case of mt) the lookup result will be identical.</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
Rgs,</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
R.</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
<br>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 6:07 AM, Lizhenbin <span=
 dir=3D"ltr">
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lizhenbin@huawei.com" target=3D"_blank">lizhenbin@hua=
wei.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex=
; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; DIRECTION: ltr; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZ=
E: 10pt">
<p><font face=3D"Courier">Hi all authors of segment routing,</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">This is the fourth comments. </font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">For LDP, when search route for the destination ad=
dress which is the FEC of the label mapping, it should search
<br>
the FIB in which the routes are selected from the static route, OSPF, ISIS,=
 BGP, etc based on the preferences.<br>
Now there is one question for SR-BE path, for example, if the SID/Label is =
advertised through OSPF, what type
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">of routes </font><font face=3D"Courier">should th=
e label mapping depend on when setup the SR-BE path?
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">I think there may be two choices: <br>
1. Only depend on the OSPF's own route; <br>
2. Like the LDP, depends on the selected route. </font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">I don't think it should be the Option 1. For exam=
ple, we configure static routes for all nodes along the path to<br>
a specific node which can be totally different from the OSPF routes to the =
node. If the static route has higher
<br>
priority than the OSPF&nbsp;and the SID/label is advertised by OSPF depends=
 on OSPF routes, there will be the
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">inconsistency between the&nbsp;</font><font face=
=3D"Courier">SR-BE path and the route path.
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">If the option 2 is adopted, it cannot be assumed =
that the label mapping and the route are in the same LSDB which
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">can be easily synchronized. There are two challen=
ges:<br>
1. The direct effect for the OSPF is that at the beginning it just download=
s it routes to the RIB for the route
<br>
selection. That is, it is the source of the route selection. But now owing =
to SR-BE path, it has to depend on
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">the result of the route selection.<br>
2. OSPF SR-BE path may depend on the routes from the static route, ISIS, BG=
P, etc. It is claimed that the SR can
<br>
remove the IGP-LDP sync. But according to this analysis, are there the poss=
ible risk we have to introduce the
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">OSPF-ISIS sync, OSPF-Static Route sync, OSPF-BGP =
sync? Or do you just think they are rare cases which should not</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">&nbsp;be taken into account? Hope you have had en=
ough analysis on this issue.
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">According to the&nbsp;comments on&nbsp;the depend=
ency,&nbsp;I hope you could specify clearly in the appropriate draft of seg=
ment</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">routing as to follows questions for SR-BE path wh=
ich is helpful for interoperability:<br>
-- depend on the longest match, or exact match, or both.<br>
-- depned on the SR protocol's own routes or the route selection resulte fr=
om multiple sources.</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">Regards,<br>
Robin</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
</div>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
spring mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:spring@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">spring@ietf.org</a><br=
>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring" target=3D"_blank">=
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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Subject: Re: [spring] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiAgTmV3IENvbW1lbnRzIG9uIFNlZ21lbnQg?= =?utf-8?q?Routing=284=29=3A_Challenge_of_Route_Dependency_for_SR-BE_Path?=
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Robin,

Label binding being up or active seems orthogonal to SR. If it is not
active/up different transport will be used between SR nodes for example GRE
or UDP etc.. What is the issue with that ?

Thx,
R.

On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 12:08 PM, Lizhenbin <lizhenbin@huawei.com> wrote:

>  Hi Robert,
>
> Please refer to my inline '[Robin]'.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Robin
>
>
>  ------------------------------
> *=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA:* rraszuk@gmail.com [rraszuk@gmail.com] =E4=
=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8 Robert Raszuk [
> robert@raszuk.net]
> *=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4:* 2015=E5=B9=B41=E6=9C=8822=E6=97=
=A5 15:46
> *=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA:* Lizhenbin
> *=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81:* spring@ietf.org; mpls@ietf.org
> *=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98:* Re: [spring] New Comments on Segment Routing(4): Ch=
allenge of Route
> Dependency for SR-BE Path
>
>    Hi Robin,
>
>  I think your question is not applicable to SR architecture.
>
>  The right SR analogy to LDP would *NOT* be hop by hop LDP like in your
> example, but targeted (aka directed) LDP session.
>  [Robin] I could not understand your point. No matter T-LDP or local LDP,
> they should lookup in the RIB/FIB to determine if the label mapping is
> active.
>  In those how to get to FEC's address is just regular lookup in the
> RIB/FIB (global or vrf depends on use case) and it does not matter what
> protocol src installed the route.
>  [Robin] As what you described, could I understand you means for the SR
> based on a specific IGP(e.g. OSPF), it should look up in the RIB/FIB to
> determine if the label binding is up? If so, there will be the two route
> dependency change issues I proposed for the OSPF. Why do you think they a=
re
> not applicable to SR?
>
>
>  Also note that like in most LDP case SR "labels" or "IDs" are global so
> regardless on which interface packet arrives (within given topology in ca=
se
> of mt) the lookup result will be identical.
>
>  Rgs,
>  R.
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 6:07 AM, Lizhenbin <lizhenbin@huawei.com> wrote:
>
>>  Hi all authors of segment routing,
>>
>>
>>
>> This is the fourth comments.
>>
>>
>>
>> For LDP, when search route for the destination address which is the FEC
>> of the label mapping, it should search
>> the FIB in which the routes are selected from the static route, OSPF,
>> ISIS, BGP, etc based on the preferences.
>> Now there is one question for SR-BE path, for example, if the SID/Label
>> is advertised through OSPF, what type
>>
>> of routes should the label mapping depend on when setup the SR-BE path?
>>
>>
>>
>> I think there may be two choices:
>> 1. Only depend on the OSPF's own route;
>> 2. Like the LDP, depends on the selected route.
>>
>>
>>
>> I don't think it should be the Option 1. For example, we configure stati=
c
>> routes for all nodes along the path to
>> a specific node which can be totally different from the OSPF routes to
>> the node. If the static route has higher
>> priority than the OSPF and the SID/label is advertised by OSPF depends o=
n
>> OSPF routes, there will be the
>>
>> inconsistency between the SR-BE path and the route path.
>>
>>
>>
>> If the option 2 is adopted, it cannot be assumed that the label mapping
>> and the route are in the same LSDB which
>>
>> can be easily synchronized. There are two challenges:
>> 1. The direct effect for the OSPF is that at the beginning it just
>> downloads it routes to the RIB for the route
>> selection. That is, it is the source of the route selection. But now
>> owing to SR-BE path, it has to depend on
>>
>> the result of the route selection.
>> 2. OSPF SR-BE path may depend on the routes from the static route, ISIS,
>> BGP, etc. It is claimed that the SR can
>> remove the IGP-LDP sync. But according to this analysis, are there the
>> possible risk we have to introduce the
>>
>> OSPF-ISIS sync, OSPF-Static Route sync, OSPF-BGP sync? Or do you just
>> think they are rare cases which should not
>>
>>  be taken into account? Hope you have had enough analysis on this issue.
>>
>>
>>
>> According to the comments on the dependency, I hope you could specify
>> clearly in the appropriate draft of segment
>>
>> routing as to follows questions for SR-BE path which is helpful for
>> interoperability:
>> -- depend on the longest match, or exact match, or both.
>> -- depned on the SR protocol's own routes or the route selection resulte
>> from multiple sources.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>> Robin
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> spring mailing list
>> spring@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
>>
>>
>

--20cf301d4266faa273050d3bc686
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:courier =
new,monospace;font-size:small">Robin,</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" sty=
le=3D"font-family:courier new,monospace;font-size:small"><br></div><div cla=
ss=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:courier new,monospace;font-size:s=
mall">Label binding being up or active seems orthogonal to SR. If it is not=
 active/up different transport will be used between SR nodes for example GR=
E or UDP etc.. What is the issue with that ?</div><div class=3D"gmail_defau=
lt" style=3D"font-family:courier new,monospace;font-size:small"><br></div><=
div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:courier new,monospace;font=
-size:small">Thx,</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:co=
urier new,monospace;font-size:small">R.</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extr=
a"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 12:08 PM, Lizhenb=
in <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lizhenbin@huawei.com" target=3D"=
_blank">lizhenbin@huawei.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"=
gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-=
left:1ex">




<div>
<div style=3D"direction:ltr;font-family:Tahoma;color:#000000;font-size:10pt=
">
<p>Hi Robert,</p>
<p>Please refer to my inline &#39;[Robin]&#39;.</p>
<p>=C2=A0</p>
<p>Regards,</p>
<p>Robin</p>
<p>=C2=A0</p>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:Times New Roman;COLOR:#000000;FONT-SIZE:16px">
<hr>
<div style=3D"DIRECTION:ltr"><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Tahoma"><b>=E5=
=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com" target=
=3D"_blank">rraszuk@gmail.com</a> [<a href=3D"mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com" tar=
get=3D"_blank">rraszuk@gmail.com</a>] =E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8 Robert Raszuk [<a =
href=3D"mailto:robert@raszuk.net" target=3D"_blank">robert@raszuk.net</a>]<=
br>
<b>=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4:</b> 2015=E5=B9=B41=E6=9C=8822=E6=
=97=A5 15:46<br>
<b>=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA:</b> Lizhenbin<br>
<b>=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:spring@ietf.org" target=3D"_bl=
ank">spring@ietf.org</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank=
">mpls@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98:</b> Re: [spring] New Comments on Segment Routing(4):=
 Challenge of Route Dependency for SR-BE Path<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div></div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><span class=3D"">
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:courier new,monospace;FONT-SIZE:small" class=3D"g=
mail_default">
Hi Robin,</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:courier new,monospace;FONT-SIZE:small" class=3D"g=
mail_default">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:courier new,monospace;FONT-SIZE:small" class=3D"g=
mail_default">
I think your question is not applicable to SR architecture.=C2=A0</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:courier new,monospace;FONT-SIZE:small" class=3D"g=
mail_default">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:courier new,monospace;FONT-SIZE:small" class=3D"g=
mail_default">
The right SR analogy to LDP would *NOT* be hop by hop LDP like in your exam=
ple, but targeted (aka directed) LDP session.
</div>
</span><div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:courier new,monospace;FONT-SIZE:small" cla=
ss=3D"gmail_default">
[Robin]=C2=A0I could not understand your point. No matter T-LDP or local LD=
P, they should lookup in the RIB/FIB to determine if the label mapping is a=
ctive.</div><span class=3D"">
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:courier new,monospace;FONT-SIZE:small" class=3D"g=
mail_default">
In those how to get to FEC&#39;s address is just regular lookup in the RIB/=
FIB (global or vrf depends on use case) and it does not matter what protoco=
l src installed the route.=C2=A0</div>
</span><div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:courier new,monospace;FONT-SIZE:small" cla=
ss=3D"gmail_default">
[Robin] As what you described, could I understand you means for the SR base=
d on a specific IGP(e.g. OSPF), it should look up in the RIB/FIB to determi=
ne if the label binding is up? If so, there will be the two route dependenc=
y change issues I proposed for the
 OSPF. Why do you think they are not applicable to SR?</div><div><div class=
=3D"h5">
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:courier new,monospace;FONT-SIZE:small" class=3D"g=
mail_default">
=C2=A0</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:courier new,monospace;FONT-SIZE:small" class=3D"g=
mail_default">
=C2=A0</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:courier new,monospace;FONT-SIZE:small" class=3D"g=
mail_default">
Also note that like in most LDP case SR &quot;labels&quot; or &quot;IDs&quo=
t; are global so regardless on which interface packet arrives (within given=
 topology in case of mt) the lookup result will be identical.</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:courier new,monospace;FONT-SIZE:small" class=3D"g=
mail_default">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:courier new,monospace;FONT-SIZE:small" class=3D"g=
mail_default">
Rgs,</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:courier new,monospace;FONT-SIZE:small" class=3D"g=
mail_default">
R.</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:courier new,monospace;FONT-SIZE:small" class=3D"g=
mail_default">
<br>
</div>
</div></div></div><div><div class=3D"h5">
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 6:07 AM, Lizhenbin <span=
 dir=3D"ltr">
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lizhenbin@huawei.com" target=3D"_blank">lizhenbin@hua=
wei.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;PA=
DDING-LEFT:1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma;DIRECTION:ltr;COLOR:#000000;FONT-SIZE:10pt=
">
<p><font face=3D"Courier">Hi all authors of segment routing,</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>=C2=A0</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">This is the fourth comments. </font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>=C2=A0</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">For LDP, when search route for the destination ad=
dress which is the FEC of the label mapping, it should search
<br>
the FIB in which the routes are selected from the static route, OSPF, ISIS,=
 BGP, etc based on the preferences.<br>
Now there is one question for SR-BE path, for example, if the SID/Label is =
advertised through OSPF, what type
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">of routes </font><font face=3D"Courier">should th=
e label mapping depend on when setup the SR-BE path?
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>=C2=A0</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">I think there may be two choices: <br>
1. Only depend on the OSPF&#39;s own route; <br>
2. Like the LDP, depends on the selected route. </font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>=C2=A0</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">I don&#39;t think it should be the Option 1. For =
example, we configure static routes for all nodes along the path to<br>
a specific node which can be totally different from the OSPF routes to the =
node. If the static route has higher
<br>
priority than the OSPF=C2=A0and the SID/label is advertised by OSPF depends=
 on OSPF routes, there will be the
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">inconsistency between the=C2=A0</font><font face=
=3D"Courier">SR-BE path and the route path.
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>=C2=A0</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">If the option 2 is adopted, it cannot be assumed =
that the label mapping and the route are in the same LSDB which
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">can be easily synchronized. There are two challen=
ges:<br>
1. The direct effect for the OSPF is that at the beginning it just download=
s it routes to the RIB for the route
<br>
selection. That is, it is the source of the route selection. But now owing =
to SR-BE path, it has to depend on
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">the result of the route selection.<br>
2. OSPF SR-BE path may depend on the routes from the static route, ISIS, BG=
P, etc. It is claimed that the SR can
<br>
remove the IGP-LDP sync. But according to this analysis, are there the poss=
ible risk we have to introduce the
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">OSPF-ISIS sync, OSPF-Static Route sync, OSPF-BGP =
sync? Or do you just think they are rare cases which should not</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">=C2=A0be taken into account? Hope you have had en=
ough analysis on this issue.
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>=C2=A0</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">According to the=C2=A0comments on=C2=A0the depend=
ency,=C2=A0I hope you could specify clearly in the appropriate draft of seg=
ment</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">routing as to follows questions for SR-BE path wh=
ich is helpful for interoperability:<br>
-- depend on the longest match, or exact match, or both.<br>
-- depned on the SR protocol&#39;s own routes or the route selection result=
e from multiple sources.</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>=C2=A0</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>=C2=A0</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>=C2=A0</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">Regards,<br>
Robin</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>=C2=A0</p>
</div>
</div>
<br>
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</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div></div></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>

</blockquote></div><br></div>

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<body fPStyle=3D"1" ocsi=3D"0">
<div style=3D"direction: ltr;font-family: Tahoma;color: #000000;font-size: =
10pt;">
<p>Hi Robert,</p>
<p>I give you an example. The topology is as follows and all nodes support =
SR.</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>A&nbsp; ---&nbsp;&nbsp;B&nbsp; ---&nbsp; C&nbsp; ---- D</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>If SID/label is configured on D and the SID/label binding for the node D=
 are flooded to A/B/C through OSPF, could you tell me how the SR-BE path to=
 the node D is set up and the label fowarding entry is created on A, B, C?<=
/p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>Regards,</p>
<p>Robin</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 16px=
">
<hr tabindex=3D"-1">
<div style=3D"DIRECTION: ltr" id=3D"divRpF18490"><font color=3D"#000000" si=
ze=3D"2" face=3D"Tahoma"><b>=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB:</b> rraszuk@gmail.com [rras=
zuk@gmail.com] =B4=FA=B1=ED Robert Raszuk [robert@raszuk.net]<br>
<b>=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4:</b> 2015=C4=EA1=D4=C222=C8=D5 19:14<br>
<b>=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB:</b> Lizhenbin<br>
<b>=B3=AD=CB=CD:</b> spring@ietf.org; mpls@ietf.org<br>
<b>=D6=F7=CC=E2:</b> Re: =B4=F0=B8=B4: [spring] New Comments on Segment Rou=
ting(4): Challenge of Route Dependency for SR-BE Path<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div></div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
Robin,</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
Label binding being up or active seems orthogonal to SR. If it is not activ=
e/up different transport will be used between SR nodes for example GRE or U=
DP etc.. What is the issue with that ?</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
Thx,</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
R.</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 12:08 PM, Lizhenbin <spa=
n dir=3D"ltr">
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lizhenbin@huawei.com" target=3D"_blank">lizhenbin@hua=
wei.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex=
; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; DIRECTION: ltr; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZ=
E: 10pt">
<p>Hi Robert,</p>
<p>Please refer to my inline '[Robin]'.</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>Regards,</p>
<p>Robin</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 16px=
">
<hr>
<div style=3D"DIRECTION: ltr"><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Tahoma"><b>=
=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com" target=3D"_bla=
nk">
rraszuk@gmail.com</a> [<a href=3D"mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com" target=3D"_blan=
k">rraszuk@gmail.com</a>] =B4=FA=B1=ED Robert Raszuk [<a href=3D"mailto:rob=
ert@raszuk.net" target=3D"_blank">robert@raszuk.net</a>]<br>
<b>=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4:</b> 2015=C4=EA1=D4=C222=C8=D5 15:46<br>
<b>=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB:</b> Lizhenbin<br>
<b>=B3=AD=CB=CD:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:spring@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">s=
pring@ietf.org</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">
mpls@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>=D6=F7=CC=E2:</b> Re: [spring] New Comments on Segment Routing(4): Chall=
enge of Route Dependency for SR-BE Path<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div></div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><span>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
Hi Robin,</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
I think your question is not applicable to SR architecture.&nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
The right SR analogy to LDP would *NOT* be hop by hop LDP like in your exam=
ple, but targeted (aka directed) LDP session.
</div>
</span>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
[Robin]&nbsp;I could not understand your point. No matter T-LDP or local LD=
P, they should lookup in the RIB/FIB to determine if the label mapping is a=
ctive.</div>
<span>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
In those how to get to FEC's address is just regular lookup in the RIB/FIB =
(global or vrf depends on use case) and it does not matter what protocol sr=
c installed the route.&nbsp;</div>
</span>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
[Robin] As what you described, could I understand you means for the SR base=
d on a specific IGP(e.g. OSPF), it should look up in the RIB/FIB to determi=
ne if the label binding is up? If so, there will be the two route dependenc=
y change issues I proposed for the
 OSPF. Why do you think they are not applicable to SR?</div>
<div>
<div class=3D"h5">
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
&nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
&nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
Also note that like in most LDP case SR &quot;labels&quot; or &quot;IDs&quo=
t; are global so regardless on which interface packet arrives (within given=
 topology in case of mt) the lookup result will be identical.</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
Rgs,</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
R.</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div class=3D"h5">
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 6:07 AM, Lizhenbin <span=
 dir=3D"ltr">
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lizhenbin@huawei.com" target=3D"_blank">lizhenbin@hua=
wei.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex=
; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; DIRECTION: ltr; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZ=
E: 10pt">
<p><font face=3D"Courier">Hi all authors of segment routing,</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">This is the fourth comments. </font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">For LDP, when search route for the destination ad=
dress which is the FEC of the label mapping, it should search
<br>
the FIB in which the routes are selected from the static route, OSPF, ISIS,=
 BGP, etc based on the preferences.<br>
Now there is one question for SR-BE path, for example, if the SID/Label is =
advertised through OSPF, what type
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">of routes </font><font face=3D"Courier">should th=
e label mapping depend on when setup the SR-BE path?
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">I think there may be two choices: <br>
1. Only depend on the OSPF's own route; <br>
2. Like the LDP, depends on the selected route. </font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">I don't think it should be the Option 1. For exam=
ple, we configure static routes for all nodes along the path to<br>
a specific node which can be totally different from the OSPF routes to the =
node. If the static route has higher
<br>
priority than the OSPF&nbsp;and the SID/label is advertised by OSPF depends=
 on OSPF routes, there will be the
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">inconsistency between the&nbsp;</font><font face=
=3D"Courier">SR-BE path and the route path.
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">If the option 2 is adopted, it cannot be assumed =
that the label mapping and the route are in the same LSDB which
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">can be easily synchronized. There are two challen=
ges:<br>
1. The direct effect for the OSPF is that at the beginning it just download=
s it routes to the RIB for the route
<br>
selection. That is, it is the source of the route selection. But now owing =
to SR-BE path, it has to depend on
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">the result of the route selection.<br>
2. OSPF SR-BE path may depend on the routes from the static route, ISIS, BG=
P, etc. It is claimed that the SR can
<br>
remove the IGP-LDP sync. But according to this analysis, are there the poss=
ible risk we have to introduce the
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">OSPF-ISIS sync, OSPF-Static Route sync, OSPF-BGP =
sync? Or do you just think they are rare cases which should not</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">&nbsp;be taken into account? Hope you have had en=
ough analysis on this issue.
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">According to the&nbsp;comments on&nbsp;the depend=
ency,&nbsp;I hope you could specify clearly in the appropriate draft of seg=
ment</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">routing as to follows questions for SR-BE path wh=
ich is helpful for interoperability:<br>
-- depend on the longest match, or exact match, or both.<br>
-- depned on the SR protocol's own routes or the route selection resulte fr=
om multiple sources.</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">Regards,<br>
Robin</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
</div>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
spring mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:spring@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">spring@ietf.org</a><br=
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<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring" target=3D"_blank">=
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
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--_000_D0E66F44C1AAaceeciscocom_
Content-Type: text/html; charset="gb2312"
Content-ID: <F0699B92C92DA843A54589AB40EC78D5@emea.cisco.com>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dgb2312">
</head>
<body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-lin=
e-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 14px; font-fami=
ly: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<div>Hi Robin,&nbsp;</div>
<div>I don=A1=AFt know about other IGP implementations but the ones I=A1=AF=
ve worked on do not resolve routes recursively (unlike LDP or BGP which do)=
. &nbsp;There are cases where OSPF runs over a tunnel but in these cases th=
e OSPF interface is either up or down dependent
 on the tunnel status. Hence, I think the issue you=A1=AFve raised regardin=
g protocol synchronization is a moot point.&nbsp;</div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div>Acee&nbsp;</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; text-align:left; color:b=
lack; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM:=
 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid;=
 BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">From: </span>Lizhenbin &lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:lizhenbin@huawei.com">lizhenbin@huawei.com</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Thursday, January 22, 2015 at=
 6:08 AM<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To: </span>Robert Raszuk &lt;<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:robert@raszuk.net">robert@raszuk.net</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Cc: </span>&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ie=
tf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@i=
etf.org</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:spring@ietf.org">spring@ietf.org</=
a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:spring@ietf.org">spring@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>[spring] =B4=F0=B8=B4: New=
 Comments on Segment Routing(4): Challenge of Route Dependency for SR-BE Pa=
th<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote id=3D"MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTRIBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE" style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:=
 #b5c4df 5 solid; PADDING:0 0 0 5; MARGIN:0 0 0 5;">
<div dir=3D"ltr"><style id=3D"owaParaStyle">P {
	MARGIN-TOP: 0px; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0px
}
</style>
<div fpstyle=3D"1" ocsi=3D"0">
<div style=3D"direction: ltr;font-family: Tahoma;color: #000000;font-size: =
10pt;">
<p>Hi Robert,</p>
<p>Please refer to my inline '[Robin]'.</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>Regards,</p>
<p>Robin</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 16px=
">
<hr tabindex=3D"-1">
<div style=3D"DIRECTION: ltr" id=3D"divRpF296806"><font color=3D"#000000" s=
ize=3D"2" face=3D"Tahoma"><b>=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB:</b>
<a href=3D"mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com">rraszuk@gmail.com</a> [<a href=3D"mail=
to:rraszuk@gmail.com">rraszuk@gmail.com</a>] =B4=FA=B1=ED Robert Raszuk [<a=
 href=3D"mailto:robert@raszuk.net">robert@raszuk.net</a>]<br>
<b>=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4:</b> 2015=C4=EA1=D4=C222=C8=D5 15:46<br>
<b>=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB:</b> Lizhenbin<br>
<b>=B3=AD=CB=CD:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:spring@ietf.org">spring@ietf.org</a>=
; <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">
mpls@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>=D6=F7=CC=E2:</b> Re: [spring] New Comments on Segment Routing(4): Chall=
enge of Route Dependency for SR-BE Path<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div></div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
Hi Robin,</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
I think your question is not applicable to SR architecture.&nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
The right SR analogy to LDP would *NOT* be hop by hop LDP like in your exam=
ple, but targeted (aka directed) LDP session.
</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
[Robin]&nbsp;I could not understand your point. No matter T-LDP or local LD=
P, they should lookup in the RIB/FIB to determine if the label mapping is a=
ctive.</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
In those how to get to FEC's address is just regular lookup in the RIB/FIB =
(global or vrf depends on use case) and it does not matter what protocol sr=
c installed the route.&nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
[Robin] As what you described, could I understand you means for the SR base=
d on a specific IGP(e.g. OSPF), it should look up in the RIB/FIB to determi=
ne if the label binding is up? If so, there will be the two route dependenc=
y change issues I proposed for the
 OSPF. Why do you think they are not applicable to SR?</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
&nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
&nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
Also note that like in most LDP case SR &quot;labels&quot; or &quot;IDs&quo=
t; are global so regardless on which interface packet arrives (within given=
 topology in case of mt) the lookup result will be identical.</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
Rgs,</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
R.</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
<br>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 6:07 AM, Lizhenbin <span=
 dir=3D"ltr">
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lizhenbin@huawei.com" target=3D"_blank">lizhenbin@hua=
wei.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex=
; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; DIRECTION: ltr; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZ=
E: 10pt">
<p><font face=3D"Courier">Hi all authors of segment routing,</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">This is the fourth comments. </font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">For LDP, when search route for the destination ad=
dress which is the FEC of the label mapping, it should search
<br>
the FIB in which the routes are selected from the static route, OSPF, ISIS,=
 BGP, etc based on the preferences.<br>
Now there is one question for SR-BE path, for example, if the SID/Label is =
advertised through OSPF, what type
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">of routes </font><font face=3D"Courier">should th=
e label mapping depend on when setup the SR-BE path?
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">I think there may be two choices: <br>
1. Only depend on the OSPF's own route; <br>
2. Like the LDP, depends on the selected route. </font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">I don't think it should be the Option 1. For exam=
ple, we configure static routes for all nodes along the path to<br>
a specific node which can be totally different from the OSPF routes to the =
node. If the static route has higher
<br>
priority than the OSPF&nbsp;and the SID/label is advertised by OSPF depends=
 on OSPF routes, there will be the
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">inconsistency between the&nbsp;</font><font face=
=3D"Courier">SR-BE path and the route path.
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">If the option 2 is adopted, it cannot be assumed =
that the label mapping and the route are in the same LSDB which
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">can be easily synchronized. There are two challen=
ges:<br>
1. The direct effect for the OSPF is that at the beginning it just download=
s it routes to the RIB for the route
<br>
selection. That is, it is the source of the route selection. But now owing =
to SR-BE path, it has to depend on
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">the result of the route selection.<br>
2. OSPF SR-BE path may depend on the routes from the static route, ISIS, BG=
P, etc. It is claimed that the SR can
<br>
remove the IGP-LDP sync. But according to this analysis, are there the poss=
ible risk we have to introduce the
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">OSPF-ISIS sync, OSPF-Static Route sync, OSPF-BGP =
sync? Or do you just think they are rare cases which should not</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">&nbsp;be taken into account? Hope you have had en=
ough analysis on this issue.
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">According to the&nbsp;comments on&nbsp;the depend=
ency,&nbsp;I hope you could specify clearly in the appropriate draft of seg=
ment</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">routing as to follows questions for SR-BE path wh=
ich is helpful for interoperability:<br>
-- depend on the longest match, or exact match, or both.<br>
-- depned on the SR protocol's own routes or the route selection resulte fr=
om multiple sources.</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">Regards,<br>
Robin</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
</div>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
spring mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:spring@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">spring@ietf.org</a><br=
>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring" target=3D"_blank">=
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</span>
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--_000_D0E66F44C1AAaceeciscocom_--


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From: Lizhenbin <lizhenbin@huawei.com>
To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2015 11:11:49 +0000
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Content-Type: text/html; charset="gb2312"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html dir=3D"ltr">
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dgb2312">
</head>
<body style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; WORD-WRAP: break-word; COLO=
R: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 14px" fPStyle=3D"1" ocsi=3D"0">
<div style=3D"direction: ltr;font-family: Tahoma;color: #000000;font-size: =
10pt;">
<p>Hi&nbsp;Acee,</p>
<p>I don't think my proposed issues is the same case as you proposed. I thi=
nk your proposed case is like forwarding agency or IGP short-cut using tunn=
el as the interface to hide the MPLS from the OSPF.&nbsp; My case is the SR=
-BE path in which OSPF is like LDP as
 one MPLS control protocol to loop up the route to determine the outgoting =
interface and the nexthop for the label mapping advertised by OSPF's self i=
nstead of hiding the label in the tunnel.
</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>Regards,</p>
<p>Robin</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 16px=
">
<hr tabindex=3D"-1">
<div style=3D"DIRECTION: ltr" id=3D"divRpF215484"><font color=3D"#000000" s=
ize=3D"2" face=3D"Tahoma"><b>=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB:</b> Acee Lindem (acee) [ac=
ee@cisco.com]<br>
<b>=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4:</b> 2015=C4=EA1=D4=C222=C8=D5 22:15<br>
<b>=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB:</b> Lizhenbin; Robert Raszuk<br>
<b>=B3=AD=CB=CD:</b> mpls@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org<br>
<b>=D6=F7=CC=E2:</b> Re: [spring] =B4=F0=B8=B4: New Comments on Segment Rou=
ting(4): Challenge of Route Dependency for SR-BE Path<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div></div>
<div>
<div>Hi Robin,&nbsp;</div>
<div>I don=A1=AFt know about other IGP implementations but the ones I=A1=AF=
ve worked on do not resolve routes recursively (unlike LDP or BGP which do)=
. &nbsp;There are cases where OSPF runs over a tunnel but in these cases th=
e OSPF interface is either up or down dependent
 on the tunnel status. Hence, I think the issue you=A1=AFve raised regardin=
g protocol synchronization is a moot point.&nbsp;</div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div>Acee&nbsp;</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
<div style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; TEXT-ALIGN: left; BORDER-LEFT: me=
dium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; FONT=
-FAMILY: Calibri; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 11pt; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt so=
lid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<span style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From: </span>Lizhenbin &lt;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:lizhenbin@huawei.com" target=3D"_blank">lizhenbin@huawei.com</a>&gt;<br=
>
<span style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Date: </span>Thursday, January 22, 2015 a=
t 6:08 AM<br>
<span style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To: </span>Robert Raszuk &lt;<a href=3D"m=
ailto:robert@raszuk.net" target=3D"_blank">robert@raszuk.net</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Cc: </span>&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@i=
etf.org" target=3D"_blank">mpls@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mp=
ls@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">mpls@ietf.org</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mail=
to:spring@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">spring@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:spring@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">spring@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject: </span>[spring] =B4=F0=B8=B4: Ne=
w Comments on Segment Routing(4): Challenge of Route Dependency for SR-BE P=
ath<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #b5c4df 5px solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; M=
ARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 5px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-TOP:=
 0px" id=3D"MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTRIBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE">
<div dir=3D"ltr"><style id=3D"owaParaStyle">P {
	MARGIN-TOP: 0px; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0px
}
P {
	MARGIN-TOP: 0px; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0px
}
</style>
<div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; DIRECTION: ltr; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZ=
E: 10pt">
<p>Hi Robert,</p>
<p>Please refer to my inline '[Robin]'.</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>Regards,</p>
<p>Robin</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 16px=
">
<hr tabindex=3D"-1">
<div style=3D"DIRECTION: ltr" id=3D"divRpF296806"><font color=3D"#000000" s=
ize=3D"2" face=3D"Tahoma"><b>=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB:</b>
<a href=3D"mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">rraszuk@gmail.com</a=
> [<a href=3D"mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">rraszuk@gmail.com=
</a>] =B4=FA=B1=ED Robert Raszuk [<a href=3D"mailto:robert@raszuk.net" targ=
et=3D"_blank">robert@raszuk.net</a>]<br>
<b>=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4:</b> 2015=C4=EA1=D4=C222=C8=D5 15:46<br>
<b>=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB:</b> Lizhenbin<br>
<b>=B3=AD=CB=CD:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:spring@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">s=
pring@ietf.org</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">
mpls@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>=D6=F7=CC=E2:</b> Re: [spring] New Comments on Segment Routing(4): Chall=
enge of Route Dependency for SR-BE Path<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div></div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
Hi Robin,</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
I think your question is not applicable to SR architecture.&nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
The right SR analogy to LDP would *NOT* be hop by hop LDP like in your exam=
ple, but targeted (aka directed) LDP session.
</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
[Robin]&nbsp;I could not understand your point. No matter T-LDP or local LD=
P, they should lookup in the RIB/FIB to determine if the label mapping is a=
ctive.</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
In those how to get to FEC's address is just regular lookup in the RIB/FIB =
(global or vrf depends on use case) and it does not matter what protocol sr=
c installed the route.&nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
[Robin] As what you described, could I understand you means for the SR base=
d on a specific IGP(e.g. OSPF), it should look up in the RIB/FIB to determi=
ne if the label binding is up? If so, there will be the two route dependenc=
y change issues I proposed for the
 OSPF. Why do you think they are not applicable to SR?</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
&nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
&nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
Also note that like in most LDP case SR &quot;labels&quot; or &quot;IDs&quo=
t; are global so regardless on which interface packet arrives (within given=
 topology in case of mt) the lookup result will be identical.</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
Rgs,</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
R.</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
<br>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 6:07 AM, Lizhenbin <span=
 dir=3D"ltr">
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lizhenbin@huawei.com" target=3D"_blank">lizhenbin@hua=
wei.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex=
; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; DIRECTION: ltr; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZ=
E: 10pt">
<p><font face=3D"Courier">Hi all authors of segment routing,</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">This is the fourth comments. </font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">For LDP, when search route for the destination ad=
dress which is the FEC of the label mapping, it should search
<br>
the FIB in which the routes are selected from the static route, OSPF, ISIS,=
 BGP, etc based on the preferences.<br>
Now there is one question for SR-BE path, for example, if the SID/Label is =
advertised through OSPF, what type
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">of routes </font><font face=3D"Courier">should th=
e label mapping depend on when setup the SR-BE path?
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">I think there may be two choices: <br>
1. Only depend on the OSPF's own route; <br>
2. Like the LDP, depends on the selected route. </font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">I don't think it should be the Option 1. For exam=
ple, we configure static routes for all nodes along the path to<br>
a specific node which can be totally different from the OSPF routes to the =
node. If the static route has higher
<br>
priority than the OSPF&nbsp;and the SID/label is advertised by OSPF depends=
 on OSPF routes, there will be the
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">inconsistency between the&nbsp;</font><font face=
=3D"Courier">SR-BE path and the route path.
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">If the option 2 is adopted, it cannot be assumed =
that the label mapping and the route are in the same LSDB which
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">can be easily synchronized. There are two challen=
ges:<br>
1. The direct effect for the OSPF is that at the beginning it just download=
s it routes to the RIB for the route
<br>
selection. That is, it is the source of the route selection. But now owing =
to SR-BE path, it has to depend on
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">the result of the route selection.<br>
2. OSPF SR-BE path may depend on the routes from the static route, ISIS, BG=
P, etc. It is claimed that the SR can
<br>
remove the IGP-LDP sync. But according to this analysis, are there the poss=
ible risk we have to introduce the
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">OSPF-ISIS sync, OSPF-Static Route sync, OSPF-BGP =
sync? Or do you just think they are rare cases which should not</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">&nbsp;be taken into account? Hope you have had en=
ough analysis on this issue.
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">According to the&nbsp;comments on&nbsp;the depend=
ency,&nbsp;I hope you could specify clearly in the appropriate draft of seg=
ment</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">routing as to follows questions for SR-BE path wh=
ich is helpful for interoperability:<br>
-- depend on the longest match, or exact match, or both.<br>
-- depned on the SR protocol's own routes or the route selection resulte fr=
om multiple sources.</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">Regards,<br>
Robin</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
</div>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
spring mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:spring@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">spring@ietf.org</a><br=
>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring" target=3D"_blank">=
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</span></div>
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From: Lizhenbin <lizhenbin@huawei.com>
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Thread-Topic: New Comments on Segment Routing(5): Challenge of Hot-standby for SR-TE Path
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Subject: [spring] New Comments on Segment Routing(5): Challenge of Hot-standby for SR-TE Path
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10pt;">
<p><font face=3D"Courier">Hi all authors of segment routing,</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">This is the fifth comments on segment routing. It=
 is related with SR-TE path and I include the TEAS WG in the dicussion.</fo=
nt></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<font face=3D"Courier">
<p><br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1<br>
&nbsp; S11-----------S12----------S13---------S14---------S15<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | <br>
&nbsp; 1|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 1|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1|&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1| <br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | <br>
&nbsp; S21-----------S22----------S23---------S24---------S25<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 4&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 4&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 4&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 4<br>
</p>
<p>MPLS TE hotstandy is always adopted in the MPLS for the traffic protecti=
on. In order to avoid one node/link failure cause
</p>
<p>both the primary path and the backup path becomes down,&nbsp;it is requi=
red that the primary path and the backup path should
</p>
<p>be totally disjointed. </p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>I assume that the design priniciple should be also applied to the SR-TE =
path. If so, taking into account the above topoloty</p>
<p>&nbsp;(the numbers near the line represent the metrics of the links), in=
 order to guarantee the disjoint of the primary path
</p>
<p>and the backup path, the label stack [ S22 SL(S22/S23) S23 SL(S23/24) S2=
4 SL(S24/S25) S15 ] (SL means the link segment
</p>
<p>between the two neighboring nodes) must be specified for the hotstandby =
path. So in the case there maybe more labels to be
</p>
<p>encapsulated for the packets forwarded through&nbsp;the hot-standby path=
. It may be easy to exceed the hardware limitation and</p>
<p>cause the low efficiency payload.<br>
</p>
<p>I wonder if you think about the challenge. Hope to get your opinion on i=
t.</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p><br>
Regards,<br>
Robin<br>
</font></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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To: "spring@ietf.org" <spring@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: New Comments on Segment Routing(6): Challenge of Loose Explicit Path for SR-TE Path
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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2015 11:40:57 +0000
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<p><font face=3D"Courier">Hi all authors of segment routing,</font></p>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 16px=
">
<div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; DIRECTION: ltr; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZ=
E: 10pt">
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">This is the sixth comments on segment routing. It=
 is another issue related with SR-TE path.</font></p>
<font face=3D"Courier">
<p><br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; S4---S5<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp; /&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; \<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; S1---S2---S3&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp; S8---S9---S10<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp; \&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; /<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; S6---S7</p>
<p><br>
For MPLS TE, there are two types of explicit paths: strict and loose. Even =
for the loose hop, the ingress node will
</p>
<p>calculate all the hops to the loose hop. And the MPLS TE path is indepen=
dent from the routing, this means even if
</p>
<p>the route change, the MPLS TE path to the loose hop can be kept. For exa=
mple, as shown in the above figure, if the
</p>
<p>ingress S1 configures the loose hop S8 to the destination S10, it will c=
alculate the path S1-&gt;S2-&gt;S3-&gt;S4-&gt;S5-&gt;S8-&gt;S9-&gt;S10.
</p>
<p>If the metric changes for the link between S3 and S4 and make the shorte=
st route path to S8 from the S3-&gt;S4-&gt;S5-&gt;S8 to<br>
S3-&gt;S6-&gt;S7-&gt;S8. But the exiting MPLS TE path will not change accor=
dingly.</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>For SR-BE Path, if the loose hop is configured, there will be two possib=
le choices:<br>
Option 1. Same as the existing MPLS TE. </p>
<p>If the option is adopted, there will be following challenges:<br>
1) This means the loose hop cannot reduce the label stack for the SR-TE pat=
h. It need more labels to be encapsulated after
</p>
<p>calculating the whole path and representing each hop with node label or =
adjacency label. The deep depth of the label statck</p>
<p>&nbsp;may exceeds the hardware limitation or cause low efficiency payloa=
d.<br>
2) More challenges can be proposed from the inter-area bahavior. If PCE is =
not adopted,&nbsp;if the ingress node has to only
</p>
<p>specify the ABRs as the loose hop to the destination for inter-area, for=
 MPLS TE, the ingress node can acquire the end-to-end
</p>
<p>path&nbsp;info through RRO.&nbsp;&nbsp;But since there is no RRO-like me=
chanism&nbsp;in IGP, it is impossible for SR-TE path to get the end-to-end
</p>
<p>path info. This means the ingress node cannot get the whole label stack =
info to determine the whole SR-TE path.</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>Option 2. Limited labels for the loose hop. For example, since only loos=
e hop S8 is specified, then the label stack for the
</p>
<p>SR-TE path to the S10 is [S8 S10]. That is, two layers of labels is enou=
gh. </p>
<p>This method can avoid the deep label stack issue. But it will introduce =
other issues. In fact, for the SR-TE path, it mixes
</p>
<p>the route path and the TE path together. There may be following issues:<=
/p>
<p>1) The route change will have effect on the SR-TE path. If the routes to=
 the S8 is changes, the SR-TE path to the S10 will
</p>
<p>change accordingly.<br>
2) For the ingress node, from the point of the network maintenance view, it=
 loses the control on the end-to-end path. That is,
</p>
<p>the end-to-end path is unknown to the ingress node. <br>
3) If there is load balance for the route, for example, there are two equal=
 paths to S8 as the above topology: S3-&gt;S4-&gt;S5-&gt;S8,</p>
<p>S3-&gt;S6-&gt;S7-&gt;S8.If BFD is enabled for the SR-TE path, the BFD pa=
ckets and the real traffic may go through different path.
</p>
<p>There will be the possibility that BFD will detect the wrong path and ma=
y cause furthe problem such as the wrong traffic switch.</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>I wonder if the issue has been taken into account and which option you p=
refer.</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>Regards,</p>
<p>Robin</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p></font>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
To: Lizhenbin <lizhenbin@huawei.com>, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
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<div>Hi Robin,&nbsp;</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; text-align:left; color:b=
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<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">From: </span>Lizhenbin &lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:lizhenbin@huawei.com">lizhenbin@huawei.com</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Monday, January 26, 2015 at 6=
:11 AM<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To: </span>Acee Lindem &lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:acee@cisco.com">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt;, Robert Raszuk &lt;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:robert@raszuk.net">robert@raszuk.net</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Cc: </span>&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ie=
tf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@i=
etf.org</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:spring@ietf.org">spring@ietf.org</=
a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:spring@ietf.org">spring@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>=B4=F0=B8=B4: [spring] =B4=
=F0=B8=B4: New Comments on Segment Routing(4): Challenge of Route Dependenc=
y for SR-BE Path<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote id=3D"MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTRIBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE" style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:=
 #b5c4df 5 solid; PADDING:0 0 0 5; MARGIN:0 0 0 5;">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; WORD-WRAP: break-word; COLOR=
: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 14px" fpstyle=3D"1" ocsi=3D"0">
<div style=3D"direction: ltr;font-family: Tahoma;color: #000000;font-size: =
10pt;">
<p>Hi&nbsp;Acee,</p>
<p>I don't think my proposed issues is the same case as you proposed. I thi=
nk your proposed case is like forwarding agency or IGP short-cut using tunn=
el as the interface to hide the MPLS from the OSPF.&nbsp; My case is the SR=
-BE path in which OSPF is like LDP as
 one MPLS control protocol to loop up the route to determine the outgoting =
interface and the nexthop for the label mapping advertised by OSPF's self i=
nstead of hiding the label in the tunnel.</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</span>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Right - and my point is that normally OSPF would only consider OSPF ro=
utes in this case. &nbsp;</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div>Acee</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
<blockquote id=3D"MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTRIBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE" style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:=
 #b5c4df 5 solid; PADDING:0 0 0 5; MARGIN:0 0 0 5;">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; WORD-WRAP: break-word; COLOR=
: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 14px" fpstyle=3D"1" ocsi=3D"0">
<div style=3D"direction: ltr;font-family: Tahoma;color: #000000;font-size: =
10pt;">
<p></p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>Regards,</p>
<p>Robin</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 16px=
">
<hr tabindex=3D"-1">
<div style=3D"DIRECTION: ltr" id=3D"divRpF215484"><font color=3D"#000000" s=
ize=3D"2" face=3D"Tahoma"><b>=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB:</b> Acee Lindem (acee) [<a=
 href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com">acee@cisco.com</a>]<br>
<b>=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4:</b> 2015=C4=EA1=D4=C222=C8=D5 22:15<br>
<b>=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB:</b> Lizhenbin; Robert Raszuk<br>
<b>=B3=AD=CB=CD:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a>; <a=
 href=3D"mailto:spring@ietf.org">
spring@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>=D6=F7=CC=E2:</b> Re: [spring] =B4=F0=B8=B4: New Comments on Segment Rou=
ting(4): Challenge of Route Dependency for SR-BE Path<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div></div>
<div>
<div>Hi Robin,&nbsp;</div>
<div>I don=A1=AFt know about other IGP implementations but the ones I=A1=AF=
ve worked on do not resolve routes recursively (unlike LDP or BGP which do)=
. &nbsp;There are cases where OSPF runs over a tunnel but in these cases th=
e OSPF interface is either up or down dependent
 on the tunnel status. Hence, I think the issue you=A1=AFve raised regardin=
g protocol synchronization is a moot point.&nbsp;</div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div>Acee&nbsp;</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
<div style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; TEXT-ALIGN: left; BORDER-LEFT: me=
dium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; FONT=
-FAMILY: Calibri; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 11pt; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt so=
lid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<span style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From: </span>Lizhenbin &lt;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:lizhenbin@huawei.com" target=3D"_blank">lizhenbin@huawei.com</a>&gt;<br=
>
<span style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Date: </span>Thursday, January 22, 2015 a=
t 6:08 AM<br>
<span style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To: </span>Robert Raszuk &lt;<a href=3D"m=
ailto:robert@raszuk.net" target=3D"_blank">robert@raszuk.net</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Cc: </span>&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:mpls@i=
etf.org" target=3D"_blank">mpls@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mp=
ls@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">mpls@ietf.org</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mail=
to:spring@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">spring@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:spring@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">spring@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject: </span>[spring] =B4=F0=B8=B4: Ne=
w Comments on Segment Routing(4): Challenge of Route Dependency for SR-BE P=
ath<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #b5c4df 5px solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; M=
ARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 5px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-TOP:=
 0px" id=3D"MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTRIBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE">
<div dir=3D"ltr"><style id=3D"owaParaStyle">P {
	MARGIN-TOP: 0px; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0px
}
P {
	MARGIN-TOP: 0px; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0px
}
</style>
<div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; DIRECTION: ltr; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZ=
E: 10pt">
<p>Hi Robert,</p>
<p>Please refer to my inline '[Robin]'.</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>Regards,</p>
<p>Robin</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 16px=
">
<hr tabindex=3D"-1">
<div style=3D"DIRECTION: ltr" id=3D"divRpF296806"><font color=3D"#000000" s=
ize=3D"2" face=3D"Tahoma"><b>=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB:</b><a href=3D"mailto:rrasz=
uk@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">rraszuk@gmail.com</a> [<a href=3D"mailto:rr=
aszuk@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">rraszuk@gmail.com</a>] =B4=FA=B1=ED Robe=
rt
 Raszuk [<a href=3D"mailto:robert@raszuk.net" target=3D"_blank">robert@rasz=
uk.net</a>]<br>
<b>=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4:</b> 2015=C4=EA1=D4=C222=C8=D5 15:46<br>
<b>=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB:</b> Lizhenbin<br>
<b>=B3=AD=CB=CD:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:spring@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">s=
pring@ietf.org</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">
mpls@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>=D6=F7=CC=E2:</b> Re: [spring] New Comments on Segment Routing(4): Chall=
enge of Route Dependency for SR-BE Path<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div></div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
Hi Robin,</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
I think your question is not applicable to SR architecture.&nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
The right SR analogy to LDP would *NOT* be hop by hop LDP like in your exam=
ple, but targeted (aka directed) LDP session.
</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
[Robin]&nbsp;I could not understand your point. No matter T-LDP or local LD=
P, they should lookup in the RIB/FIB to determine if the label mapping is a=
ctive.</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
In those how to get to FEC's address is just regular lookup in the RIB/FIB =
(global or vrf depends on use case) and it does not matter what protocol sr=
c installed the route.&nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
[Robin] As what you described, could I understand you means for the SR base=
d on a specific IGP(e.g. OSPF), it should look up in the RIB/FIB to determi=
ne if the label binding is up? If so, there will be the two route dependenc=
y change issues I proposed for the
 OSPF. Why do you think they are not applicable to SR?</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
&nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
&nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
Also note that like in most LDP case SR &quot;labels&quot; or &quot;IDs&quo=
t; are global so regardless on which interface packet arrives (within given=
 topology in case of mt) the lookup result will be identical.</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
Rgs,</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
R.</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
<br>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 6:07 AM, Lizhenbin <span=
 dir=3D"ltr">
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lizhenbin@huawei.com" target=3D"_blank">lizhenbin@hua=
wei.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex=
; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; DIRECTION: ltr; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZ=
E: 10pt">
<p><font face=3D"Courier">Hi all authors of segment routing,</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">This is the fourth comments. </font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">For LDP, when search route for the destination ad=
dress which is the FEC of the label mapping, it should search
<br>
the FIB in which the routes are selected from the static route, OSPF, ISIS,=
 BGP, etc based on the preferences.<br>
Now there is one question for SR-BE path, for example, if the SID/Label is =
advertised through OSPF, what type
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">of routes </font><font face=3D"Courier">should th=
e label mapping depend on when setup the SR-BE path?
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">I think there may be two choices: <br>
1. Only depend on the OSPF's own route; <br>
2. Like the LDP, depends on the selected route. </font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">I don't think it should be the Option 1. For exam=
ple, we configure static routes for all nodes along the path to<br>
a specific node which can be totally different from the OSPF routes to the =
node. If the static route has higher
<br>
priority than the OSPF&nbsp;and the SID/label is advertised by OSPF depends=
 on OSPF routes, there will be the
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">inconsistency between the&nbsp;</font><font face=
=3D"Courier">SR-BE path and the route path.
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">If the option 2 is adopted, it cannot be assumed =
that the label mapping and the route are in the same LSDB which
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">can be easily synchronized. There are two challen=
ges:<br>
1. The direct effect for the OSPF is that at the beginning it just download=
s it routes to the RIB for the route
<br>
selection. That is, it is the source of the route selection. But now owing =
to SR-BE path, it has to depend on
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">the result of the route selection.<br>
2. OSPF SR-BE path may depend on the routes from the static route, ISIS, BG=
P, etc. It is claimed that the SR can
<br>
remove the IGP-LDP sync. But according to this analysis, are there the poss=
ible risk we have to introduce the
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">OSPF-ISIS sync, OSPF-Static Route sync, OSPF-BGP =
sync? Or do you just think they are rare cases which should not</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">&nbsp;be taken into account? Hope you have had en=
ough analysis on this issue.
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">According to the&nbsp;comments on&nbsp;the depend=
ency,&nbsp;I hope you could specify clearly in the appropriate draft of seg=
ment</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">routing as to follows questions for SR-BE path wh=
ich is helpful for interoperability:<br>
-- depend on the longest match, or exact match, or both.<br>
-- depned on the SR protocol's own routes or the route selection resulte fr=
om multiple sources.</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">Regards,<br>
Robin</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
</div>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
spring mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:spring@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">spring@ietf.org</a><br=
>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring" target=3D"_blank">=
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
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From: Lizhenbin <lizhenbin@huawei.com>
To: "spring@ietf.org" <spring@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: New Comments on Segment Routing(7): MTU Challenges for SR
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--_000_5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D4772A9E9nkgeml506mbxchi_
Content-Type: text/html; charset="gb2312"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html dir=3D"ltr">
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dgb2312">
<style id=3D"owaParaStyle">P {
	MARGIN-TOP: 0px; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0px
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<div style=3D"direction: ltr;font-family: Tahoma;color: #000000;font-size: =
10pt;">
<p><font face=3D"Courier">Hi all authors of segment routing,</font></p>
<font face=3D"Courier">
<p><br>
This is the seventh commens. The issues proposed here are for both SR-TE pa=
th and SR-BE path.</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p><br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1<br>
&nbsp; S11-----------S12----------S13---------S14---------S15<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | <br>
&nbsp; 1|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 1|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1|&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1| <br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | <br>
&nbsp; S21-----------S22----------S23---------S24---------S25<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 4&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 4&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 4&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 4</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>Still take the topology in the comment 6 as the example. No matter the l=
oose explicit path or
</p>
<p>the strict explicit path for the loose hop, assume the MTU of the interf=
ace is the same,
</p>
<p>since the depth of the label stacks for the primary path and the backup =
path&nbsp;are different.
</p>
<p>There is the risk that the effetive payload may transmit through the pri=
mary path, but may be
</p>
<p>fragmented or dropped in the backup path. As the difference between the =
label stacks of the
</p>
<p>primary path and the backup path increase, the risk will increase.</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>From the case, we can deduce that the risk may exists for any scenarios =
in which the same traffic</p>
<p>&nbsp;may switch from one SR path to the other SR path. The SR path incl=
udes SR-TE path such as MPLS TE
</p>
<p>hotstandby/reoptimization and SR-BE path such as TI-FRR.</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>Besides above issues, LDP/RSVP-TE can support the path MTU to track the =
MTU informaiton along the
</p>
<p>LSP through signalling. Then the reasonable MTU info will be adopted in =
the ingress node. For both</p>
<p>&nbsp;SR-TE path (if PCE is not used) and SR-BE path, since there is no =
signalling to advertise
</p>
<p>the information. How to implement the feature? Or there maybe the risk t=
hat the packet may be
</p>
<p>dropped by the nodes along the LSP.</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>Regards,</p>
<p>Robin</font></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D4772A9E9nkgeml506mbxchi_--


From nobody Tue Jan 27 12:01:55 2015
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Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2015 21:01:01 +0100
From: Hannes Gredler <hannes@juniper.net>
To: Lizhenbin <lizhenbin@huawei.com>
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Subject: Re: [spring] New Comments on Segment Routing(7): MTU Challenges for SR
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only can speak for IS-IS -
afaik the Trill extensions gave us a way of signaling the MTU of a link ...

so what we could do is to advertise the MTU for each adjacency and implement
proper fragmentation at the TE tunnel ingress.

/hannes

On Tue, Jan 27, 2015 at 11:24:23AM +0000, Lizhenbin wrote:
|    Hi all authors of segment routing,
| 
|    This is the seventh commens. The issues proposed here are for both SR-TE
|    path and SR-BE path.
| 
| 
| 
|             1              1           1            1
|      S11-----------S12----------S13---------S14---------S15
|       |             |            |           |           |
|      1|            1|           1|          1|          1|
|       |             |            |           |           |
|      S21-----------S22----------S23---------S24---------S25
|             4              4           4            4
| 
| 
| 
|    Still take the topology in the comment 6 as the example. No matter the
|    loose explicit path or
| 
|    the strict explicit path for the loose hop, assume the MTU of the
|    interface is the same,
| 
|    since the depth of the label stacks for the primary path and the backup
|    path are different.
| 
|    There is the risk that the effetive payload may transmit through the
|    primary path, but may be
| 
|    fragmented or dropped in the backup path. As the difference between the
|    label stacks of the
| 
|    primary path and the backup path increase, the risk will increase.
| 
| 
| 
|    From the case, we can deduce that the risk may exists for any scenarios in
|    which the same traffic
| 
|     may switch from one SR path to the other SR path. The SR path includes
|    SR-TE path such as MPLS TE
| 
|    hotstandby/reoptimization and SR-BE path such as TI-FRR.
| 
| 
| 
|    Besides above issues, LDP/RSVP-TE can support the path MTU to track the
|    MTU informaiton along the
| 
|    LSP through signalling. Then the reasonable MTU info will be adopted in
|    the ingress node. For both
| 
|     SR-TE path (if PCE is not used) and SR-BE path, since there is no
|    signalling to advertise
| 
|    the information. How to implement the feature? Or there maybe the risk
|    that the packet may be
| 
|    dropped by the nodes along the LSP.
| 
| 
| 
| 
| 
| 
| 
|    Regards,
| 
|    Robin

| _______________________________________________
| spring mailing list
| spring@ietf.org
| https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring


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From: Lizhenbin <lizhenbin@huawei.com>
To: Hannes Gredler <hannes@juniper.net>
Thread-Topic: [spring] New Comments on Segment Routing(7): MTU Challenges for SR
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10pt;">
<p><font face=3D"Courier">Hi Hannes,</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">I have ever thought about the possible solutions =
based on the flooded MTU information through IGP.</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">There are still two possible issues:</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">1. Inter-area for SR-TE path: Maybe we not only i=
ntroduce the IGP extensions, but also PCEP extensions.</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">2. For SR-BE path, it has to introduce the TE-lik=
e end-to-end path calculation at the ingress node.</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">My concern is not just for the possible solutions=
, but to explore the essence of SR
<font size=3D"3">which may has much</font></font></p>
<p><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Courier">effect on its deployment comparing wit=
h the existing MPLS protocol. It will be explained in</font></p>
<p><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Courier">the next comments.</font></p>
<p><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Courier">Regards,</font></p>
<p><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Courier">Robin</font></p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">&nbsp;</p>
<p><br>
<br>
________________________________________<br>
=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: Hannes Gredler [hannes@juniper.net]<br>
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2015=C4=EA1=D4=C228=C8=D5 4:01<br>
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: Lizhenbin<br>
=B3=AD=CB=CD: spring@ietf.org; mpls@ietf.org; teas@ietf.org<br>
=D6=F7=CC=E2: Re: [spring] New Comments on Segment Routing(7): MTU Challeng=
es for SR<br>
<br>
only can speak for IS-IS -<br>
afaik the Trill extensions gave us a way of signaling the MTU of a link ...=
<br>
<br>
so what we could do is to advertise the MTU for each adjacency and implemen=
t<br>
proper fragmentation at the TE tunnel ingress.<br>
<br>
/hannes<br>
<br>
On Tue, Jan 27, 2015 at 11:24:23AM &#43;0000, Lizhenbin wrote:<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Hi all authors of segment routing,<br>
|<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; This is the seventh commens. The issues proposed here a=
re for both SR-TE<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; path and SR-BE path.<br>
|<br>
|<br>
|<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp; 1&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; S11-----------S12----------S13---------S14-=
--------S15<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp; |<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1|&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1|<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp; |<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; S21-----------S22----------S23---------S24-=
--------S25<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 4=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp; 4&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 4&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 4<br>
|<br>
|<br>
|<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Still take the topology in the comment 6 as the example=
. No matter the<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; loose explicit path or<br>
|<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; the strict explicit path for the loose hop, assume the =
MTU of the<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; interface is the same,<br>
|<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; since the depth of the label stacks for the primary pat=
h and the backup<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; path are different.<br>
|<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; There is the risk that the effetive payload may transmi=
t through the<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; primary path, but may be<br>
|<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; fragmented or dropped in the backup path. As the differ=
ence between the<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; label stacks of the<br>
|<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; primary path and the backup path increase, the risk wil=
l increase.<br>
|<br>
|<br>
|<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; From the case, we can deduce that the risk may exists f=
or any scenarios in<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; which the same traffic<br>
|<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; may switch from one SR path to the other SR path.=
 The SR path includes<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; SR-TE path such as MPLS TE<br>
|<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; hotstandby/reoptimization and SR-BE path such as TI-FRR=
.<br>
|<br>
|<br>
|<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Besides above issues, LDP/RSVP-TE can support the path =
MTU to track the<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; MTU informaiton along the<br>
|<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; LSP through signalling. Then the reasonable MTU info wi=
ll be adopted in<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; the ingress node. For both<br>
|<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; SR-TE path (if PCE is not used) and SR-BE path, s=
ince there is no<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; signalling to advertise<br>
|<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; the information. How to implement the feature? Or there=
 maybe the risk<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; that the packet may be<br>
|<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; dropped by the nodes along the LSP.<br>
|<br>
|<br>
|<br>
|<br>
|<br>
|<br>
|<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Regards,<br>
|<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Robin<br>
<br>
| _______________________________________________<br>
| spring mailing list<br>
| spring@ietf.org<br>
| https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring</font></p>
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From: Lizhenbin <lizhenbin@huawei.com>
To: "spring@ietf.org" <spring@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: New Comments on Segment Routing(8): Loop Prevention and Error Handling for SR
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Subject: [spring] New Comments on Segment Routing(8): Loop Prevention and Error Handling for SR
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--_000_5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D4772B863nkgeml506mbxchi_
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10pt;">
<p><font face=3D"Courier">Hi all authors of segment routing,</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">This is the eighth comments. The issues proposed =
here apply to both SR-TE path and SR-BE path.</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">For LDP and RSVP-TE, there is the loop prevention=
 mechanism when setup LSP. For the SR, the SR path is always
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">setup at the ingress node. It is difficult to det=
ect the possible loop in the network. For example, if the
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">microloop of route happens, the loop prevention m=
echanism will prevent LDP to setup LSP. But for the segment
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">routing, once the ingress node downloads the forw=
arding entry and the traffic will experience the microloop.
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">How can SR to cope with the issue or just leave i=
t as the traditional routing?</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">For LDP and RSVP-TE, there is the error notificat=
ion mechanism based on the LDP notification message or the
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">RSVP-TE PathErr/Resv messages. Based on the error=
 notification, the nodes along the LSP can take possible</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">actions against the possible errors. But for SR, =
there is no such information communicated among&nbsp;the nodes</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">along the SR Path. The result will be that once t=
he packet is forwarded by the ingress node, they may
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">experience the possible errors which may be preve=
nted by the negotiation in the control plane.</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">From the previous comments, we can see that in th=
e traditional LSP, the LSP setup is negotiated through
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">the signalling between the upstream node and the =
downstream node. During the negotiation, it is not only to
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">set up the forwarding the entry for the purpose o=
f reachablity, but also includes many aspects (I call them
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">as the operation and maintenence of the LSP. Hope=
 it is appropriate. ) such as the end-to-end connectivity</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">verification, the loop prevention, path MTU, nego=
tiation, path recording, error notification and handling,
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">etc. Though SR always proposes its advantage, in =
my opinion, these advantages&nbsp;are&nbsp;from the reachability
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">part such as the advantage that the label statck =
in the ingress node reduces the states in the network.&nbsp;
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">But the requirements of the operational and maint=
enance for the traditional LSP still exist. Taking into
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">account that the flooding mode of the IGP, it sto=
ps the communication between the nodes along the path,
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">the work may become more complex. According to th=
e past experience, the possible ways I could think out&nbsp;are
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">as follows:<br>
1) Depend on the third-party mechanisms. But the problem is that there may =
involve more mechanisms and there
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">may be no mechanisms. For example, LSP Ping can b=
e adopted to check the end-to-end connectivity or loop for
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">the SR-BE path, but it cannot be used for path MT=
U negotiation. For the end-to-end path recording, LSP Tracert</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">may have to be introduced. If these requirements =
and mechanisms are considered,&nbsp;it means SR does not reduce
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">the compexity. Instead&nbsp;it just transfers mor=
e complexity to the other possible signallings.<br>
2) Depend on one nodes to implement the possible functions. For example, fo=
r SR-TE path, it can depend on the
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">PCE or the ingress node to collect all path info =
proposed by path recording or even path MTU negotiation. Even so,
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">there is still some drawbacks for some scenarios =
if only depend on the ingress node. Moreover these methods
<br>
cannot apply </font><font face=3D"Courier">to SR-BE path.If the possible wo=
rk is done through the ingress node, it will begin to change the
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">essence of SR-BE and become the SR-TE. <br>
3) Leave as it is. That is, these issues are not solved for SR path. In my =
own opinion, 20 years ago, only
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">solving the reachability issues may be accepted. =
But today, as the concept of carrier-grade IP network has been
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">widely accepted </font><font face=3D"Courier">and=
 these features mentioned has been deployed in the traditional MPLS network=
, I don't think
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">they can be removed </font><font face=3D"Courier"=
>easily.<br>
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">In one word, though some advantage driven from th=
e reachbility of SR is apparent, the complexity introcuded by
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">the synthesized requirements are not reduced. And=
 it may become more complex for SR.</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">Regards,</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">Robin</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D4772B863nkgeml506mbxchi_--


From nobody Wed Jan 28 04:54:55 2015
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From: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
To: Lizhenbin <lizhenbin@huawei.com>
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Subject: Re: [spring] New Comments on Segment Routing(8): Loop Prevention and Error Handling for SR
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--001a11c3a9505650a1050db5e059
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Robin,

Most if not of your observations circle around idea to use segment routing
as MPLS label signalling mechanism. I do not think this is that interesting
scenario. Personally I would not deploy it for such purpose of hop by hop
MPLS switching. We have LDP for that.

Contrary I would use SR for controlled packet steering where responsibility
is take to make the right header (be it label or extension headers) upon
operator or his controller.

To the point of the loop .. note that you may have valid cases to traverse
given appliance (SFC use case) more then onces hence I would claim it is
not aa architecture spec problem, but if so deployment bug.

Best,
r.



On Wed, Jan 28, 2015 at 12:30 PM, Lizhenbin <lizhenbin@huawei.com> wrote:

>  Hi all authors of segment routing,
>
>
>
> This is the eighth comments. The issues proposed here apply to both SR-TE
> path and SR-BE path.
>
>
>
> For LDP and RSVP-TE, there is the loop prevention mechanism when setup
> LSP. For the SR, the SR path is always
>
> setup at the ingress node. It is difficult to detect the possible loop in
> the network. For example, if the
>
> microloop of route happens, the loop prevention mechanism will prevent LDP
> to setup LSP. But for the segment
>
> routing, once the ingress node downloads the forwarding entry and the
> traffic will experience the microloop.
>
> How can SR to cope with the issue or just leave it as the traditional
> routing?
>
>
>
> For LDP and RSVP-TE, there is the error notification mechanism based on
> the LDP notification message or the
>
> RSVP-TE PathErr/Resv messages. Based on the error notification, the nodes
> along the LSP can take possible
>
> actions against the possible errors. But for SR, there is no such
> information communicated among the nodes
>
> along the SR Path. The result will be that once the packet is forwarded by
> the ingress node, they may
>
> experience the possible errors which may be prevented by the negotiation
> in the control plane.
>
>
>
> From the previous comments, we can see that in the traditional LSP, the
> LSP setup is negotiated through
>
> the signalling between the upstream node and the downstream node. During
> the negotiation, it is not only to
>
> set up the forwarding the entry for the purpose of reachablity, but also
> includes many aspects (I call them
>
> as the operation and maintenence of the LSP. Hope it is appropriate. )
> such as the end-to-end connectivity
>
> verification, the loop prevention, path MTU, negotiation, path recording,
> error notification and handling,
>
> etc. Though SR always proposes its advantage, in my opinion, these
> advantages are from the reachability
>
> part such as the advantage that the label statck in the ingress node
> reduces the states in the network.
>
> But the requirements of the operational and maintenance for the
> traditional LSP still exist. Taking into
>
> account that the flooding mode of the IGP, it stops the communication
> between the nodes along the path,
>
> the work may become more complex. According to the past experience, the
> possible ways I could think out are
>
> as follows:
> 1) Depend on the third-party mechanisms. But the problem is that there may
> involve more mechanisms and there
>
> may be no mechanisms. For example, LSP Ping can be adopted to check the
> end-to-end connectivity or loop for
>
> the SR-BE path, but it cannot be used for path MTU negotiation. For the
> end-to-end path recording, LSP Tracert
>
> may have to be introduced. If these requirements and mechanisms are
> considered, it means SR does not reduce
>
> the compexity. Instead it just transfers more complexity to the other
> possible signallings.
> 2) Depend on one nodes to implement the possible functions. For example,
> for SR-TE path, it can depend on the
>
> PCE or the ingress node to collect all path info proposed by path
> recording or even path MTU negotiation. Even so,
>
> there is still some drawbacks for some scenarios if only depend on the
> ingress node. Moreover these methods
> cannot apply to SR-BE path.If the possible work is done through the
> ingress node, it will begin to change the
>
> essence of SR-BE and become the SR-TE.
> 3) Leave as it is. That is, these issues are not solved for SR path. In my
> own opinion, 20 years ago, only
>
> solving the reachability issues may be accepted. But today, as the concept
> of carrier-grade IP network has been
>
> widely accepted and these features mentioned has been deployed in the
> traditional MPLS network, I don't think
>
> they can be removed easily.
>
> In one word, though some advantage driven from the reachbility of SR is
> apparent, the complexity introcuded by
>
> the synthesized requirements are not reduced. And it may become more
> complex for SR.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Robin
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> spring mailing list
> spring@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
>
>

--001a11c3a9505650a1050db5e059
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:courier =
new,monospace;font-size:small">Robin,</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" sty=
le=3D"font-family:courier new,monospace;font-size:small"><br></div><div cla=
ss=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:courier new,monospace;font-size:s=
mall">Most if not of your observations circle around idea to use segment ro=
uting as MPLS label signalling mechanism. I do not think this is that inter=
esting scenario. Personally I would not deploy it for such purpose of hop b=
y hop MPLS switching. We have LDP for that.</div><div class=3D"gmail_defaul=
t" style=3D"font-family:courier new,monospace;font-size:small"><br></div><d=
iv class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:courier new,monospace;font-=
size:small">Contrary I would use SR for controlled packet steering where re=
sponsibility is take to make the right header (be it label or extension hea=
ders) upon operator or his controller.=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_defau=
lt" style=3D"font-family:courier new,monospace;font-size:small"><br></div><=
div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:courier new,monospace;font=
-size:small">To the point of the loop .. note that you may have valid cases=
 to traverse given appliance (SFC use case) more then onces hence I would c=
laim it is not aa architecture spec problem, but if so deployment bug.</div=
><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:courier new,monospace;fo=
nt-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:=
courier new,monospace;font-size:small">Best,</div><div class=3D"gmail_defau=
lt" style=3D"font-family:courier new,monospace;font-size:small">r.</div><di=
v class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:courier new,monospace;font-s=
ize:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:cour=
ier new,monospace;font-size:small">=C2=A0</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_ex=
tra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Jan 28, 2015 at 12:30 PM, Lizhe=
nbin <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lizhenbin@huawei.com" target=
=3D"_blank">lizhenbin@huawei.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padd=
ing-left:1ex">




<div>
<div style=3D"direction:ltr;font-family:Tahoma;color:#000000;font-size:10pt=
">
<p><font face=3D"Courier">Hi all authors of segment routing,</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>=C2=A0</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">This is the eighth comments. The issues proposed =
here apply to both SR-TE path and SR-BE path.</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>=C2=A0</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">For LDP and RSVP-TE, there is the loop prevention=
 mechanism when setup LSP. For the SR, the SR path is always
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">setup at the ingress node. It is difficult to det=
ect the possible loop in the network. For example, if the
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">microloop of route happens, the loop prevention m=
echanism will prevent LDP to setup LSP. But for the segment
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">routing, once the ingress node downloads the forw=
arding entry and the traffic will experience the microloop.
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">How can SR to cope with the issue or just leave i=
t as the traditional routing?</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>=C2=A0</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">For LDP and RSVP-TE, there is the error notificat=
ion mechanism based on the LDP notification message or the
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">RSVP-TE PathErr/Resv messages. Based on the error=
 notification, the nodes along the LSP can take possible</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">actions against the possible errors. But for SR, =
there is no such information communicated among=C2=A0the nodes</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">along the SR Path. The result will be that once t=
he packet is forwarded by the ingress node, they may
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">experience the possible errors which may be preve=
nted by the negotiation in the control plane.</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>=C2=A0</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">From the previous comments, we can see that in th=
e traditional LSP, the LSP setup is negotiated through
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">the signalling between the upstream node and the =
downstream node. During the negotiation, it is not only to
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">set up the forwarding the entry for the purpose o=
f reachablity, but also includes many aspects (I call them
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">as the operation and maintenence of the LSP. Hope=
 it is appropriate. ) such as the end-to-end connectivity</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">verification, the loop prevention, path MTU, nego=
tiation, path recording, error notification and handling,
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">etc. Though SR always proposes its advantage, in =
my opinion, these advantages=C2=A0are=C2=A0from the reachability
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">part such as the advantage that the label statck =
in the ingress node reduces the states in the network.=C2=A0
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">But the requirements of the operational and maint=
enance for the traditional LSP still exist. Taking into
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">account that the flooding mode of the IGP, it sto=
ps the communication between the nodes along the path,
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">the work may become more complex. According to th=
e past experience, the possible ways I could think out=C2=A0are
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">as follows:<br>
1) Depend on the third-party mechanisms. But the problem is that there may =
involve more mechanisms and there
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">may be no mechanisms. For example, LSP Ping can b=
e adopted to check the end-to-end connectivity or loop for
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">the SR-BE path, but it cannot be used for path MT=
U negotiation. For the end-to-end path recording, LSP Tracert</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">may have to be introduced. If these requirements =
and mechanisms are considered,=C2=A0it means SR does not reduce
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">the compexity. Instead=C2=A0it just transfers mor=
e complexity to the other possible signallings.<br>
2) Depend on one nodes to implement the possible functions. For example, fo=
r SR-TE path, it can depend on the
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">PCE or the ingress node to collect all path info =
proposed by path recording or even path MTU negotiation. Even so,
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">there is still some drawbacks for some scenarios =
if only depend on the ingress node. Moreover these methods
<br>
cannot apply </font><font face=3D"Courier">to SR-BE path.If the possible wo=
rk is done through the ingress node, it will begin to change the
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">essence of SR-BE and become the SR-TE. <br>
3) Leave as it is. That is, these issues are not solved for SR path. In my =
own opinion, 20 years ago, only
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">solving the reachability issues may be accepted. =
But today, as the concept of carrier-grade IP network has been
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">widely accepted </font><font face=3D"Courier">and=
 these features mentioned has been deployed in the traditional MPLS network=
, I don&#39;t think
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">they can be removed </font><font face=3D"Courier"=
>easily.<br>
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">In one word, though some advantage driven from th=
e reachbility of SR is apparent, the complexity introcuded by
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">the synthesized requirements are not reduced. And=
 it may become more complex for SR.</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>=C2=A0</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>=C2=A0</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>=C2=A0</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>=C2=A0</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">Regards,</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">Robin</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>=C2=A0</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>=C2=A0</p>
</div>
</div>

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<br></blockquote></div><br></div>

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From: Gregory Mirsky <gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com>
To: Lizhenbin <lizhenbin@huawei.com>, Hannes Gredler <hannes@juniper.net>
Thread-Topic: [spring] New Comments on Segment Routing(7): MTU Challenges for SR
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Subject: Re: [spring] New Comments on Segment Routing(7): MTU Challenges for SR
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To: Lizhenbin <lizhenbin@huawei.com>, Hannes Gredler <hannes@juniper.net>
Thread-Topic: [spring] New Comments on Segment Routing(7): MTU Challenges for SR
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Subject: Re: [spring] New Comments on Segment Routing(7): MTU Challenges for SR
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Hi Robin,<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">If we have MTU issues wit=
h in an area, I see trouble in basic IGP functioning (for example it=A1=AFs=
 a serious issue with IS-IS for basic operation).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">For inter area cases don=
=A1=AFt you think it=A1=AFs in PCE/Controller=A1=AFs scope to setup paths b=
ased on the advertised MTU (yes, if MTU is advertised on ADJs as proposed
 below).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US=
">--<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US=
">Uma C.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> mpls [ma=
ilto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Lizhenbin<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, January 28, 2015 3:06 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Hannes Gredler<br>
<b>Cc:</b> mpls@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; teas@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [mpls] </span><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:10.0p=
t">=B4=F0=B8=B4</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tah=
oma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">: [spring] New Comments on Segment Routin=
g(7): MTU Challenges for SR<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier;color:black">Hi Hann=
es,</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier;color:black">I have =
ever thought about the possible solutions based on the flooded MTU informat=
ion through IGP.</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier;color:black">There a=
re still two possible issues:</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier;color:black">1. Inte=
r-area for SR-TE path: Maybe we not only introduce the IGP extensions, but =
also PCEP extensions.</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&qu=
ot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier;color:black">2. For =
SR-BE path, it has to introduce the TE-like end-to-end path calculation at =
the ingress node.</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;san=
s-serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier;color:black">My conc=
ern is not just for the possible solutions, but to explore the essence of S=
R
</span><span style=3D"font-family:Courier;color:black">which may has much</=
span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;s=
ans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:Courier;color:black">effect on its deployment=
 comparing with the existing MPLS protocol. It will be explained in</span><=
span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:Courier;color:black">the next comments.</span=
><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;san=
s-serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;san=
s-serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:Courier;color:black">Regards,</span><span sty=
le=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:Courier;color:black">Robin</span><span style=
=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;=
color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;san=
s-serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;san=
s-serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier;color:black">&nbsp;<=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier;color:black"><br>
<br>
________________________________________<br>
</span><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;color:black">=B7=A2=
=BC=FE=C8=CB</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier;colo=
r:black">: Hannes Gredler [hannes@juniper.net]<br>
</span><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;color:black">=B7=A2=
=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courie=
r;color:black">: 2015</span><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;=
color:black">=C4=EA</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Couri=
er;color:black">1</span><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;colo=
r:black">=D4=C2</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier;c=
olor:black">28</span><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;color:b=
lack">=C8=D5</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier;colo=
r:black">
 4:01<br>
</span><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;color:black">=CA=D5=
=BC=FE=C8=CB</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier;colo=
r:black">: Lizhenbin<br>
</span><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;color:black">=B3=AD=
=CB=CD</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier;color:blac=
k">:
<a href=3D"mailto:spring@ietf.org">spring@ietf.org</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:m=
pls@ietf.org">
mpls@ietf.org</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:teas@ietf.org">teas@ietf.org</a><br>
</span><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;color:black">=D6=F7=
=CC=E2</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier;color:blac=
k">: Re: [spring] New Comments on Segment Routing(7): MTU Challenges for SR=
<br>
<br>
only can speak for IS-IS -<br>
afaik the Trill extensions gave us a way of signaling the MTU of a link ...=
<br>
<br>
so what we could do is to advertise the MTU for each adjacency and implemen=
t<br>
proper fragmentation at the TE tunnel ingress.<br>
<br>
/hannes<br>
<br>
On Tue, Jan 27, 2015 at 11:24:23AM &#43;0000, Lizhenbin wrote:<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Hi all authors of segment routing,<br>
|<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; This is the seventh commens. The issues proposed here a=
re for both SR-TE<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; path and SR-BE path.<br>
|<br>
|<br>
|<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp; 1&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; S11-----------S12----------S13---------S14-=
--------S15<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp; |<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1|&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1|<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp; |<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; S21-----------S22----------S23---------S24-=
--------S25<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 4=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp; 4&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 4&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 4<br>
|<br>
|<br>
|<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Still take the topology in the comment 6 as the example=
. No matter the<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; loose explicit path or<br>
|<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; the strict explicit path for the loose hop, assume the =
MTU of the<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; interface is the same,<br>
|<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; since the depth of the label stacks for the primary pat=
h and the backup<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; path are different.<br>
|<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; There is the risk that the effetive payload may transmi=
t through the<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; primary path, but may be<br>
|<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; fragmented or dropped in the backup path. As the differ=
ence between the<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; label stacks of the<br>
|<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; primary path and the backup path increase, the risk wil=
l increase.<br>
|<br>
|<br>
|<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; From the case, we can deduce that the risk may exists f=
or any scenarios in<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; which the same traffic<br>
|<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; may switch from one SR path to the other SR path.=
 The SR path includes<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; SR-TE path such as MPLS TE<br>
|<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; hotstandby/reoptimization and SR-BE path such as TI-FRR=
.<br>
|<br>
|<br>
|<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Besides above issues, LDP/RSVP-TE can support the path =
MTU to track the<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; MTU informaiton along the<br>
|<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; LSP through signalling. Then the reasonable MTU info wi=
ll be adopted in<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; the ingress node. For both<br>
|<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; SR-TE path (if PCE is not used) and SR-BE path, s=
ince there is no<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; signalling to advertise<br>
|<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; the information. How to implement the feature? Or there=
 maybe the risk<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; that the packet may be<br>
|<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; dropped by the nodes along the LSP.<br>
|<br>
|<br>
|<br>
|<br>
|<br>
|<br>
|<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Regards,<br>
|<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Robin<br>
<br>
| _______________________________________________<br>
| spring mailing list<br>
| <a href=3D"mailto:spring@ietf.org">spring@ietf.org</a><br>
| <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring">https://www.ietf=
.org/mailman/listinfo/spring</a></span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font=
-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p><=
/span></p>
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From: Uma Chunduri <uma.chunduri@ericsson.com>
To: Lizhenbin <lizhenbin@huawei.com>, "bruno.decraene@orange.com" <bruno.decraene@orange.com>, "spring@ietf.org" <spring@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: New Comments on Segment Routing(1): Challenge of Ordered mode for SR-BE Path and Incremental Deployment
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Hi Robin,<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&gt;As to your suggested solution of the cont=
rol plane, it can be done, but it has been the end-to-end path
</span><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&=
quot;serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&gt;calculation like TE instead of the tradit=
ional route path calculation.</span><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-family:=
&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Gone through the exchange=
 below. If I understand correct =A8C<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">IMO, it=A1=AFs a deployme=
nt issue if S13 doesn=A1=AFt support neither SR nor LDP. If LDP is supporte=
d stitching should happen on S12 from SR to LDP.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Now, ingress node need no=
t have an idea of the stitching &nbsp;even if S14 is non-SR , as long as it=
=A1=AFs label/index is advertised through binding SIDs.<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">The missing point AFAICT =
is on =A1=B0explanation=A1=B1 of processing of binding SIDs (for mapping se=
rver functionality) at ingress node&nbsp; -
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">i.e., not only S12 which =
realizes S13 (non-SR capable and do the right thing) but S11 should also co=
mpute and add
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">LSP for the binding SID f=
or S14 index with best path next-hop &nbsp;(which is an SR node).<o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Is your issues addressed =
with this?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US=
">--<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US=
">Uma C.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> spring [=
mailto:spring-bounces@ietf.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Lizhenbin<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, January 19, 2015 10:42 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> bruno.decraene@orange.com; spring@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [spring] </span><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:10.=
0pt">=B4=F0=B8=B4</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">: New Comments on Segment Routing(1): C=
hallenge of Ordered mode for SR-BE Path and Incremental Deployment<o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quo=
t;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Hi Bruno,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quo=
t;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Please refer to my inline comments i=
dentified with '[Robin]'.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quo=
t;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quo=
t;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quo=
t;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Robin<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quo=
t;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quo=
t;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span=
 lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&q=
uot;;color:black">
<hr size=3D"2" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center">
</span></div>
<div id=3D"divRpF764870">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span lang=3D"ZH-C=
N" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;color:black">=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB</span></b><b><=
span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&=
quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">:</span></b><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"f=
ont-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color=
:black">
<a href=3D"mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com">bruno.decraene@orange.com</a> =
[bruno.decraene@orange.com]<br>
</span><b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;color:black">=B7=
=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4</span></b><b><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.=
0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">:</s=
pan></b><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahom=
a&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">
 2015</span><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;color:black">=C4=
=EA</span><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tah=
oma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">1</span><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" =
style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;color:black">=D4=C2</span><span lang=3D"FR" style=
=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;=
color:black">18</span><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;color:=
black">=C8=D5</span><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family=
:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">
 18:13<br>
</span><b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;color:black">=CA=
=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB</span></b><b><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">:</span></=
b><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot=
;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">
 Lizhenbin; <a href=3D"mailto:spring@ietf.org">spring@ietf.org</a><br>
</span><b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;color:black">=D6=
=F7=CC=E2</span></b><b><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">:</span></b><spa=
n lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quo=
t;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">
 RE: New Comments on Segment Routing(1): Challenge of Ordered mode for SR-B=
E Path and Incremental Deployment</span><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-fam=
ily:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p><=
/span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Hi Robin,</span><span lan=
g=3D"FR" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Please see inline [Bruno2=
]</span><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Regards,</span><span lang=
=3D"FR" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Bruno</span><span lang=3D=
"FR" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">From:</span><=
/b><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quo=
t;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"> Lizhenbin [<a href=3D"mailto:lizhen=
bin@huawei.com">mailto:lizhenbin@huawei.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, January 18, 2015 6:41 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> DECRAENE Bruno IMT/OLN; <a href=3D"mailto:spring@ietf.org">sprin=
g@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> ??: New Comments on Segment Routing(1): Challenge of Ordere=
d mode for SR-BE Path and Incremental Deployment</span><span lang=3D"FR" st=
yle=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quo=
t;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Hi Bruno,</span><span lang=3D"FR" st=
yle=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:blac=
k"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quo=
t;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Please refer to my comments inline i=
dentified by '[Robin]'.
</span><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&=
quot;serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quo=
t;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">For LDP, there are two LDP control m=
odes:</span><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&qu=
ot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quo=
t;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">-- Ordered&nbsp;mode: Depend on the =
egress and the downstream node</span><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-family=
:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quo=
t;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">-- Independent mode: Depend on the d=
ownstream node.</span><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times Ne=
w Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quo=
t;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">In fact, SR is based on IGP and intr=
oduces one totally different mode which I called as flooding mode.</span><s=
pan lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;seri=
f&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quo=
t;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">-- Flooding mode: Depend the node's =
self</span><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quo=
t;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">[Bruno2] I=A1=AFm not sure to see what you me=
an by =A1=B0depend=A1=B1.</span><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-family:&quo=
t;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">In LDP ordered mode, there is a signaling end=
 to end from the egress to the ingress, roughly a la =A1=B0distance vector=
=A1=B1.</span><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&=
quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">In LDP independent mode, the signaling is lim=
ited to be 2 adjacent nodes (me, my downstream). So roughly no signaling.</=
span><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&qu=
ot;serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">In SPRING, the Link State paradigm is used. Y=
ou know the status of the egress and all the links&nbsp; &amp; nodes.</span=
><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;s=
erif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">[Robin]
</span><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&=
quot;serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">1. The 'depend' means the label binding for t=
he nodes in segment routing is stable, after the label binding are flooded,=
&nbsp;for&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times Ne=
w Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">every&nbsp;nodes in the network,&nbsp; once t=
here are the routes to the destination nodes address, the ingress LSP can b=
e setup to be used</span><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times=
 New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">for VPN, etc. For LDP independent, even if th=
e route is available, it has to wait for the label mapping from the downstr=
eam to
</span><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&=
quot;serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">setup the ingress LDP to be used for VPN, etc=
.
</span><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&=
quot;serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">2. I am not sure what's the link state paradi=
gm you mean? For LDP, it depends on IGP, it can also use the link state par=
adigm.</span><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&q=
uot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">The only difference is that the segment routi=
ng can use it conveniently since the label binding coexists with link state=
 paradigm.</span><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Rom=
an&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot=
;serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot=
;serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot=
;serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot=
;serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;san=
s-serif&quot;;color:black">Comparing the there mode, the flooding mode is m=
ore independent.
</span><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">This means it is the essiest one=
 to
</span><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&=
quot;serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quo=
t;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">set up the interrupted LSP and leak =
the useless traffic into the network which will have negative effect
</span><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&=
quot;serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quo=
t;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">on the normal traffic in the network=
.</span><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,=
&quot;serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">[Bruno2] I disagree. You have the link state =
vision of the whole SPRING network. That=A1=AFs the =A1=B0mode=A1=B1 which =
provides the more information.</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;</span><=
span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Specifically,
</span><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&=
quot;serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;san=
s-serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fon=
t-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">You know =
that the egress is =A1=B0up=A1=B1 and that all nodes on the way are also =
=A1=B0up=A1=B1 and ready (I
 do mean from a SPRING/MPLS standpoint).</span><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"f=
ont-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Obviously, this is a control plan vision only=
. If you want to check the FIB, you will need to test it (e.g. LSP Ping)</s=
pan><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quo=
t;serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">[Robin]</span><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font=
-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">I understand your point about the control pla=
ne solution to some extent. In fact, I have also thought about solutions fo=
r the the possible
</span><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&=
quot;serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">interruption issues for SR-BE path.&nbsp;As t=
o your suggested solution of the control plane, it can be done, but it has =
been the end-to-end path
</span><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&=
quot;serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">calculation like TE instead of the traditiona=
l route path calculation.</span><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-family:&quo=
t;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot=
;serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot=
;serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;san=
s-serif&quot;;color:black">Best Regards,</span><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"f=
ont-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;san=
s-serif&quot;;color:black">Robin</span><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-fami=
ly:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></=
span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot=
;serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot=
;serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span=
 lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&q=
uot;;color:black">
<hr size=3D"2" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center">
</span></div>
<div id=3D"divRpF312182">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span lang=3D"ZH-C=
N" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;color:black">=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB</span></b><b><=
span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:black">:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">
</span><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><a href=3D"mailto:bruno.decraene=
@orange.com" target=3D"_blank"><span lang=3D"EN-US">bruno.decraene@orange.c=
om</span></a></span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahom=
a&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">
 [bruno.decraene@or</span><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">ange.com]<br>
</span><b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;color:black">=B7=
=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4</span></b><b><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.=
0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">:</s=
pan></b><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahom=
a&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">
 2015</span><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;color:black">=C4=
=EA</span><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tah=
oma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">1</span><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" =
style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;color:black">=D4=C2</span><span lang=3D"FR" style=
=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;=
color:black">15</span><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;color:=
black">=C8=D5</span><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family=
:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">
 23:56<br>
</span><b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;color:black">=CA=
=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB</span></b><b><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">:</span></=
b><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot=
;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">
 Lizhenbin; <a href=3D"mailto:spring@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">spring@iet=
f.org</a><br>
</span><b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;color:black">=D6=
=F7=CC=E2</span></b><b><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">:</span></b><spa=
n lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quo=
t;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">
 RE: New Comments on Segment Routing(1): Challenge of Ordered mode for SR-B=
E Path and Incremental Deployment</span><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"color:bl=
ack"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Hi Robin,</sp=
an><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Thanks for your interest =
on SR/SPRING.</span><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Please see in=
line. [Bruno]</span><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">From:</span><=
/b><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quo=
t;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"> spring [<a href=3D"mailto:spring-bo=
unces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">mailto:spring-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Lizhenbin<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, January 15, 2015 2:12 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:spring@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">spring@ietf=
.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [spring] New Comments on Segment Routing(1): Challenge of O=
rdered mode for SR-BE Path and Incremental Deployment</span><span lang=3D"F=
R" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier;color:bl=
ack">Hi all authors of segment routing,</span><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"fo=
nt-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p><=
/o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot=
;serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier;color:bl=
ack">When we did research on segment routing and found some new issues. Cou=
ld you help clarify if the analysis is right and
</span><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&=
quot;serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier;color:bl=
ack">how will they be taken into account in the design of SR.</span><span l=
ang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quo=
t;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot=
;serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier;color:bl=
ack">This is the first issue.</span><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-family:=
&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier;color:bl=
ack">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp; (Non-SR)<br>
&nbsp; S11-----------S12----------S13---------S14<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |<br>
&nbsp; S21-----------S22----------S23---------S24<br>
&nbsp; <br>
As above topoloby, there are 8 nodes and assume all the metics of the links=
 are 1 and VPNs are deployed<br>
on S11/S21/S14/S24. </span><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Tim=
es New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier;color:bl=
ack"><br>
If LDP is used as the tunnel for VPN on S11/S14, since LDP can support the =
ordered mode. The LSP for the S14 will be
<br>
setup as the order S14-&gt;S13-&gt;S12-&gt;S11 for distribution of label ma=
pping. And the shortest path for routes
<br>
to S14 is also S11-&gt;S12-&gt;S13-&gt;S14. So the end-to-end LSP to S14 is=
 setup. If one node (e.g. S13) does not
<br>
support LDP, according to LDP ordered mode, the end-to-end LSP cannot setup=
 since S12 does not receive the label<br>
mapping from the exact nexthop of the route, S13 and it will not distribute=
 the label mapping to S11. And the
</span><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&=
quot;serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier;color:bl=
ack">result is that the VPN on S11 cannot take the LSP&nbsp;since the LSP c=
annot setup on S11.&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-family:&quo=
t;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&qu=
ot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">[Bruno]</span><span lang=3D"FR" s=
tyle=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:bla=
ck"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">My understanding of your case is the followin=
g, please correct me if I=A1=AFm wrong:</span><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"fo=
nt-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p><=
/o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">There is no SPRING/SR. All nodes support LDP.=
 S11, S12, S14 use ordered mode. S13 use independent mode.</span><span lang=
=3D"FR" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;=
color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot=
;serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">First, such cases happen today in multiple ve=
ndor networks since different implementation used different options.</span>=
<span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;se=
rif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Then, I believe that your understanding of LD=
P independant mode&nbsp; is incorrect. In independent mode, S13 always adve=
rtises the S14 FEC to its neighbor, even if it don=A1=AFt gets a
 label mapping from its downstream S14. This FEC is then propagated to S11 =
in ordered mode.</span><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times N=
ew Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">As a result, S11 gets a label for S14 and wil=
l use S14 for the VPN. However in the forwarding plane the traffic will be =
dropped on S13.</span><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times Ne=
w Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">[Robin] It has explained in the previous mail=
. Please rethink the case that S13 does not support LDP instead of that S13=
 support independent mode.</span><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-family:&qu=
ot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot=
;serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot=
;serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot=
;serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier;color:black">If SR-B=
E path is used as the tunnel for VPN on S11/S14 and assume the S13
</span><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier;colo=
r:black">cannot support the SR, according to my
<br>
understanding, there will be an SR-BE path for the destination S14 which is=
 interrupted at S12. This is similar as
<br>
the independent mode of LDP. If this VPN takes this SR-BE Path at S11, the =
VPN traffic will be dropped at S12.</span><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-f=
amily:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier;color:bl=
ack">If the analysis is right. I have two questions:<br>
1. How will SR avoid such risk? Some enhancement on SR or just leave it to =
the local implmentation (For example,<br>
LSP ping is firstly used to check the connectivity)?</span><span lang=3D"FR=
" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:=
black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">[Bruno] A priori, I could see 3 answers</span=
><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;s=
erif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">-a- I guess one could use IGP multi-topology =
to handle a different topology between the IP and the MPLS one. This is sim=
ilar to IPv6 introduction in a IPv4 network.</span><span lang=3D"FR" style=
=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:black">=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">-b- Another option is to enable interworking =
between LDP and SR/SPRING to handle such incremental deployment. Please see=
 the following draft for an introduction on this interworking:
<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routin=
g-ldp-interop-02" target=3D"_blank">
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-ldp-inter=
op-02</a> Comments are welcomed as I agree with you that=A1=AFs an importan=
t topic for brownfield incremental deployment</span><span lang=3D"FR" style=
=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:black">=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">[Robin] I do not think multi-topoloty and SR-=
LDP interop will propose can not solved the issued.</span><span lang=3D"FR"=
 style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:b=
lack"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">[Bruno2] Not sure why you use double negation=
. But in short, you also believe this should work.</span><span lang=3D"FR" =
style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:bl=
ack"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot=
;serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">[Robin]</span><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font=
-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">But the price is high. In fact, I have read t=
he draft. But I do not think think it is an easy work according to the past=
 experience in the MPLS world. I will explain the possible
 work should be taken into account in the subsequent comments. A small exam=
ple, SR claimed it can replace the IGP-LDP sync. But as a developer, I am s=
ure that the effort&nbsp;of implementation of SR-LDP interop is much more t=
han IGP-LDP sync. Can I say that in fact
 SR does not save our effort, but make more trouble?</span><span lang=3D"FR=
" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:=
black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">[Bruno2] The use of SR-LDP interwork allows i=
ncremental deployment of SR with incremental benefit but is indeed an addit=
ional work. It is only needed in a multi-vendor/plateform
 network&nbsp;when all nodes do not support SR, for a limited duration. It=
=A1=AFs not long term feature. If you ask me, I would rather not have to us=
e it, but it depends on the willing of vendors to implement the required IG=
P sub-TLVs. If we all agree that implementing
 such sub-TLV is easier and better (or if you assume mono vendor deployment=
, which I don=A1=AFt) we won=A1=AFt need to deploy/implement LDP-SPRING int=
erworking. This is a roadmap versus deployment date issue, so a bit out of =
scope of this mailing list. However, from
 the mailing list standpoint, the point is that this can be done (specified=
 and implemented)</span><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times =
New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot=
;serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">-c- Another option is to incrementally deploy=
 SR in addition to LDP and to prefer LDP for end to end LSP (using administ=
rative distance). Then it=A1=AFs up to each SR application
 to see how much they can take benefit of partial SR deployment. e.g. FRR (=
TI-LFA, RLFA or DLFA) may/should be able to benefit from partial deployment=
.</span><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,=
&quot;serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">[Robin] The difficulty is that the ingress no=
de cannot determine if the SR-BE path is end-to-end without extra methods w=
hich is unnecessary for the&nbsp;LDP already deployed in the
 whole network. </span><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times N=
ew Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">[Bruno2] Again, No. please see
<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-exte=
nsions-03#section-3" target=3D"_blank">
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions-03#s=
ection-3</a> The ingress knows, within its IGP area/level, all nodes which =
supports SPRING or not. This includes nodes on the SPT to the egress.</span=
><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;s=
erif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot=
;serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot=
;serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot=
;serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">FYI, as of today/myself I say that =A1=B0b=A1=
=B1 is required and =A1=B0c=A1=B1 is nice to have.</span><span lang=3D"FR" =
style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:bl=
ack"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier;color:black"><br>
2. Assume LDP is already deployed on all nodes in the network to bear VPN t=
raffic.
</span><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier;colo=
r:black">When SR-BE path is adopted in the<br>
network to replace LDP LSP, since there is the possible risk proposed by in=
terrupted SR-BE path and&nbsp;I do not think it
</span><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&=
quot;serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier;color:bl=
ack">is impossible to carefully determine the upgraded nodes.
</span><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&=
quot;serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">[Bruno] I=A1=AFm not sure to correctly unders=
tand your last sentence. Within an AS (well area/level) It is possible to i=
dentify nodes which are SR/SPRING compliant (or non compliant)
 as they advertise this in the link state IGP.</span><span lang=3D"FR" styl=
e=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:black"=
><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">[Robin]&nbsp;I agree your proposed the increm=
ental deployment method by IGP extension to identifed the SR-node. This is =
not what my objective. My case is to show that the scope of
 end-to-end LSP and the scope of the SR nodes is different. The incremental=
 deployment of SR cause the issue for the end-to-end LSP.
</span><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&=
quot;serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;=
;color:black">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quo=
t;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">[Bruno2] I=A1=AFm not=
 sure to see your point. In particular by =A1=B0end-to-end=A1=B1 to you mea=
n within an area/level,
 or across ASes? Because as SPRING uses the IGP, IGP frontiers makes a diff=
erence. Can you please rephrase or bring an non-working example?</span><spa=
n lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&=
quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot=
;serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier;color:black">So the =
only choice is to upgrade all nodes to support SR all at once.</span><span =
lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&qu=
ot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">[Bruno] No.</span><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"=
font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">[Robin] I can agree you that it may be necess=
ary. But more details be taken into account and the price may be high and .=
</span><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&=
quot;serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot=
;serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier;color:black">is that=
 right that the incremental deployment of SR in such scenario is difficult =
to adopt?</span><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roma=
n&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot=
;serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot=
;serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot=
;serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quo=
t;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Regards,</span><span lang=3D"FR" sty=
le=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:black=
"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quo=
t;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Zhenbin(Robin)</span><span lang=3D"F=
R" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color=
:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<pre><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"color:black">______________________________=
___________________________________________________________________________=
________________<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"color:black">Ce message et ses pieces joint=
es peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne =
doivent donc<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"color:black">pas etre diffuses, exploites o=
u copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuill=
ez le signaler<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"color:black">a l'expediteur et le detruire =
ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles=
 d'alteration,<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"color:black">Orange decline toute responsab=
ilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci.<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"color:black">This message and its attachmen=
ts may contain confidential or privileged information that may be protected=
 by law;<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"color:black">they should not be distributed=
, used or copied without authorisation.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"color:black">If you have received this emai=
l in error, please notify the sender and delete this message and its attach=
ments.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"color:black">As emails may be altered, Oran=
ge is not liable for messages that have been modified, changed or falsified=
.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"color:black">Thank you.<o:p></o:p></span></=
pre>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<pre><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"color:black">______________________________=
___________________________________________________________________________=
________________<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"color:black">Ce message et ses pieces joint=
es peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne =
doivent donc<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"color:black">pas etre diffuses, exploites o=
u copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuill=
ez le signaler<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"color:black">a l'expediteur et le detruire =
ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles=
 d'alteration,<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"color:black">Orange decline toute responsab=
ilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci.<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"color:black">This message and its attachmen=
ts may contain confidential or privileged information that may be protected=
 by law;<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"color:black">they should not be distributed=
, used or copied without authorisation.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"color:black">If you have received this emai=
l in error, please notify the sender and delete this message and its attach=
ments.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"color:black">As emails may be altered, Oran=
ge is not liable for messages that have been modified, changed or falsified=
.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"color:black">Thank you.<o:p></o:p></span></=
pre>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
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Thread-Topic: [spring] New Comments on Segment Routing(7): MTU Challenges for SR
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From: Lizhenbin <lizhenbin@huawei.com>
To: Uma Chunduri <uma.chunduri@ericsson.com>, Hannes Gredler <hannes@juniper.net>
Thread-Topic: [spring] New Comments on Segment Routing(7): MTU Challenges for SR
Thread-Index: AdA6Iy10hnzSmHMYSNeVsID5YDgzbAABb2SAADAnQIEAEuyzAAAWqcJr
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2015 07:06:28 +0000
Message-ID: <5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D4772BACE@nkgeml506-mbx.china.huawei.com>
References: <5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D4772A9E9@nkgeml506-mbx.china.huawei.com>,  <20150127200101.GA21477@hannes-mba.local> <5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D4772B845@nkgeml506-mbx.china.huawei.com>, <1B502206DFA0C544B7A60469152008633F55CF49@eusaamb105.ericsson.se>
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<p>Hi Uma,</p>
<p>Please refer to my inline comments.</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>Regards,</p>
<p>Robin</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
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<div style=3D"DIRECTION: ltr" id=3D"divRpF973593"><font color=3D"#000000" s=
ize=3D"2" face=3D"Tahoma"><b>=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB:</b> Uma Chunduri [uma.chun=
duri@ericsson.com]<br>
<b>=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4:</b> 2015=C4=EA1=D4=C229=C8=D5 12:01<br>
<b>=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB:</b> Lizhenbin; Hannes Gredler<br>
<b>=B3=AD=CB=CD:</b> mpls@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; teas@ietf.org<br>
<b>=D6=F7=CC=E2:</b> RE: [spring] New Comments on Segment Routing(7): MTU C=
hallenges for SR<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div></div>
<div>
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; =
COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Hi Robin,</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; =
COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; =
COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">If we have MTU issues with in an area, I s=
ee trouble in basic IGP functioning (for example it=A1=AFs a serious issue =
with IS-IS for basic operation).</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; =
COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">[Robin] I agree with you that there exists=
 the MTU issue for the routing functioning. But the MTU issue can be solved=
 by the path MTU mechanism provided
 by LDP/RSVP-TE. My question is whether SR path based on the MPLS forwardin=
g plane is the comparative with the routing or MPLS LSP.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; =
COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; =
COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">For inter area cases don=A1=AFt you think =
it=A1=AFs in PCE/Controller=A1=AFs scope to setup paths based on the advert=
ised MTU (yes, if MTU is advertised on ADJs as proposed
 below).</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; =
COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">[Robin] In fact, in the comments (8) I hav=
e explained the possible solutions. Do you think the solution is too comple=
x for the path MTU of SR which could
 have be solved by the path MTU information exchange through&nbsp;only LDP =
or RSVP-TE while for the SR path it has to introduce IGP-based MTU advertis=
ement, the end-to-end path MTU computation in the ingress node, and PCE-bas=
ed end-to-end MTU information collection?&nbsp;
 Even so, for SR-BE path, there is still challenges for the path MTU. Moreo=
ver, this is just for the path MTU. Taking into account more scenarios whic=
h needs the information exchanging along the nodes of LSP such as path reco=
rding, loop prevention, error handling
 and other existing features of LDP/RSVP-TE, what is possible complexity fo=
r SR solutions?</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; =
COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; =
COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">--</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; =
COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Uma C.</span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; =
COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<div>
<div style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING=
-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1p=
t solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'=
; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</span></b><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sa=
ns-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Lizhenbin<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, January 28, 2015 3:06 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Hannes Gredler<br>
<b>Cc:</b> mpls@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; teas@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [mpls] </span><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D"ZH-CN=
">=B4=F0=B8=B4</span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FON=
T-SIZE: 10pt">: [spring] New Comments on Segment Routing(7): MTU Challenges=
 for SR</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
<div>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Courier; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Hi H=
annes,</span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: blac=
k; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Courier; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">I ha=
ve ever thought about the possible solutions based on the flooded MTU infor=
mation through IGP.</span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'=
; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Courier; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Ther=
e are still two possible issues:</span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma'=
,'sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Courier; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">1. I=
nter-area for SR-TE path: Maybe we not only introduce the IGP extensions, b=
ut also PCEP extensions.</span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-s=
erif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Courier; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">2. F=
or SR-BE path, it has to introduce the TE-like end-to-end path calculation =
at the ingress node.</span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif=
'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SI=
ZE: 10pt"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Courier; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">My c=
oncern is not just for the possible solutions, but to explore the essence o=
f SR
</span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Courier; COLOR: black">which may has muc=
h</span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FO=
NT-SIZE: 10pt"></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Courier; COLOR: black">effect on its deploym=
ent comparing with the existing MPLS protocol. It will be explained in</spa=
n><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZ=
E: 10pt"></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Courier; COLOR: black">the next comments.</s=
pan><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-S=
IZE: 10pt"></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SI=
ZE: 10pt"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SI=
ZE: 10pt"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Courier; COLOR: black">Regards,</span><span =
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"=
></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Courier; COLOR: black">Robin</span><span sty=
le=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></=
span></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SI=
ZE: 10pt"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SI=
ZE: 10pt"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Courier; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></sp=
an>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Courier; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><br>
<br>
________________________________________<br>
</span><span style=3D"COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D"ZH-CN">=B7=A2=
=BC=FE=C8=CB</span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Courier; COLOR: black; FONT-=
SIZE: 10pt">: Hannes Gredler [hannes@juniper.net]<br>
</span><span style=3D"COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D"ZH-CN">=B7=A2=
=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4</span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Courier; COLOR: black;=
 FONT-SIZE: 10pt">: 2015</span><span style=3D"COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt=
" lang=3D"ZH-CN">=C4=EA</span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Courier; COLOR: b=
lack; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">1</span><span style=3D"COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt=
" lang=3D"ZH-CN">=D4=C2</span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Courier; COLOR: b=
lack; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">28</span><span style=3D"COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10p=
t" lang=3D"ZH-CN">=C8=D5</span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Courier; COLOR: =
black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">
 4:01<br>
</span><span style=3D"COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D"ZH-CN">=CA=D5=
=BC=FE=C8=CB</span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Courier; COLOR: black; FONT-=
SIZE: 10pt">: Lizhenbin<br>
</span><span style=3D"COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D"ZH-CN">=B3=AD=
=CB=CD</span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Courier; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">:
<a href=3D"mailto:spring@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">spring@ietf.org</a>; <=
a href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">
mpls@ietf.org</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:teas@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">teas@=
ietf.org</a><br>
</span><span style=3D"COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D"ZH-CN">=D6=F7=
=CC=E2</span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Courier; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">: Re: [spring] New Comments on Segment Routing(7): MTU Challenges for=
 SR<br>
<br>
only can speak for IS-IS -<br>
afaik the Trill extensions gave us a way of signaling the MTU of a link ...=
<br>
<br>
so what we could do is to advertise the MTU for each adjacency and implemen=
t<br>
proper fragmentation at the TE tunnel ingress.<br>
<br>
/hannes<br>
<br>
On Tue, Jan 27, 2015 at 11:24:23AM &#43;0000, Lizhenbin wrote:<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Hi all authors of segment routing,<br>
|<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; This is the seventh commens. The issues proposed here a=
re for both SR-TE<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; path and SR-BE path.<br>
|<br>
|<br>
|<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp; 1&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; S11-----------S12----------S13---------S14-=
--------S15<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp; |<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1|&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1|<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp; |<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; S21-----------S22----------S23---------S24-=
--------S25<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 4=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp; 4&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 4&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 4<br>
|<br>
|<br>
|<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Still take the topology in the comment 6 as the example=
. No matter the<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; loose explicit path or<br>
|<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; the strict explicit path for the loose hop, assume the =
MTU of the<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; interface is the same,<br>
|<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; since the depth of the label stacks for the primary pat=
h and the backup<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; path are different.<br>
|<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; There is the risk that the effetive payload may transmi=
t through the<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; primary path, but may be<br>
|<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; fragmented or dropped in the backup path. As the differ=
ence between the<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; label stacks of the<br>
|<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; primary path and the backup path increase, the risk wil=
l increase.<br>
|<br>
|<br>
|<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; From the case, we can deduce that the risk may exists f=
or any scenarios in<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; which the same traffic<br>
|<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; may switch from one SR path to the other SR path.=
 The SR path includes<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; SR-TE path such as MPLS TE<br>
|<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; hotstandby/reoptimization and SR-BE path such as TI-FRR=
.<br>
|<br>
|<br>
|<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Besides above issues, LDP/RSVP-TE can support the path =
MTU to track the<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; MTU informaiton along the<br>
|<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; LSP through signalling. Then the reasonable MTU info wi=
ll be adopted in<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; the ingress node. For both<br>
|<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; SR-TE path (if PCE is not used) and SR-BE path, s=
ince there is no<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; signalling to advertise<br>
|<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; the information. How to implement the feature? Or there=
 maybe the risk<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; that the packet may be<br>
|<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; dropped by the nodes along the LSP.<br>
|<br>
|<br>
|<br>
|<br>
|<br>
|<br>
|<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Regards,<br>
|<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Robin<br>
<br>
| _______________________________________________<br>
| spring mailing list<br>
| <a href=3D"mailto:spring@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">spring@ietf.org</a><=
br>
| <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring" target=3D"_blank=
">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring</a></span><span style=3D"FON=
T-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></span></p>
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From: Lizhenbin <lizhenbin@huawei.com>
To: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Thread-Topic: [spring] New Comments on Segment Routing(8): Loop Prevention and Error Handling for SR
Thread-Index: AdA66yE5259u7U/sTZCfhnmR4h4dm///ltGAgAG6xBA=
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2015 07:47:17 +0000
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<p>Hi Robert,</p>
<p>Pleaser refer to my inline comments.</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>Regards,</p>
<p>Robin</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 16px=
">
<hr tabindex=3D"-1">
<div style=3D"DIRECTION: ltr" id=3D"divRpF489046"><font color=3D"#000000" s=
ize=3D"2" face=3D"Tahoma"><b>=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB:</b> rraszuk@gmail.com [rra=
szuk@gmail.com] =B4=FA=B1=ED Robert Raszuk [robert@raszuk.net]<br>
<b>=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4:</b> 2015=C4=EA1=D4=C228=C8=D5 20:54<br>
<b>=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB:</b> Lizhenbin<br>
<b>=B3=AD=CB=CD:</b> spring@ietf.org; mpls@ietf.org; teas@ietf.org<br>
<b>=D6=F7=CC=E2:</b> Re: [spring] New Comments on Segment Routing(8): Loop =
Prevention and Error Handling for SR<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div></div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
Robin,</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
Most if not of your observations circle around idea to use segment routing =
as MPLS label signalling mechanism. I do not think this is that interesting=
 scenario. Personally I would not deploy it for such purpose of hop by hop =
MPLS switching. We have LDP for
 that.</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
&nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
[Robin] </div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
1. I wonder whether this is your own idea or the well-accepted idea of all =
authors of segment routing. From the draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-=
ldp-interop-02/draft-francois-spring-segment-routing-ti-lfa-01, it seems th=
at the SR-BE path is&nbsp;the replacement
 of LDP. From the draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-00, it seems that the SR-T=
E path is the replacement of RSVP-TE.</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
2. I think the packet steering is truly an ambiguous concept. I agree with =
your usecases. We also appreciated the possible chances proposed by the SR =
and promote the idea in my draft draft-li-spring-mpls-path-programming-00&n=
bsp;that MPLS label is becoming the indicator
 beyond the reachability and can be used as the representation of&nbsp;flex=
ible services combination. I think these topics can&nbsp;develop the existi=
ng IP/MPLS world into some new fields. But the ambiguous thing is that the =
traditional routing and MPLS traffic engieering
 can also be seen as some types of traffic steering.&nbsp;I think this will=
 be repeated work if SR's objective to solve the internal end-to-end reacha=
bility issue. My comments is just to explain the possible challenges and co=
mplexity&nbsp;for IGP-based SR path comparing
 with the&nbsp;existing LDP/RSVP-TE.&nbsp;And I&nbsp;do not&nbsp;think SR c=
an&nbsp;solve the issues better than LDP/RSVP-TE though there maybe some ad=
vantage.&nbsp;If we can be&nbsp;aware of this, we should stop the complex p=
rotocol extensions work for SR in this field. Or else, it is just to
 make mess in the MPLS world and produce complexity for the service provide=
rs.</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
&nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
&nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
This is the reason that the SR proposes too many ambiguous things which I w=
ill explain later.</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
&nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
&nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
Contrary I would use SR for controlled packet steering where responsibility=
 is take to make the right header (be it label or extension headers) upon o=
perator or his controller.&nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
To the point of the loop .. note that you may have valid cases to traverse =
given appliance (SFC use case) more then onces hence I would claim it is no=
t aa architecture spec problem, but if so deployment bug.</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
Best,</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
r.</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: courier new,monospace; FONT-SIZE: small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">
&nbsp;</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Jan 28, 2015 at 12:30 PM, Lizhenbin <spa=
n dir=3D"ltr">
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lizhenbin@huawei.com" target=3D"_blank">lizhenbin@hua=
wei.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex=
; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; DIRECTION: ltr; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZ=
E: 10pt">
<p><font face=3D"Courier">Hi all authors of segment routing,</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">This is the eighth comments. The issues proposed =
here apply to both SR-TE path and SR-BE path.</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">For LDP and RSVP-TE, there is the loop prevention=
 mechanism when setup LSP. For the SR, the SR path is always
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">setup at the ingress node. It is difficult to det=
ect the possible loop in the network. For example, if the
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">microloop of route happens, the loop prevention m=
echanism will prevent LDP to setup LSP. But for the segment
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">routing, once the ingress node downloads the forw=
arding entry and the traffic will experience the microloop.
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">How can SR to cope with the issue or just leave i=
t as the traditional routing?</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">For LDP and RSVP-TE, there is the error notificat=
ion mechanism based on the LDP notification message or the
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">RSVP-TE PathErr/Resv messages. Based on the error=
 notification, the nodes along the LSP can take possible</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">actions against the possible errors. But for SR, =
there is no such information communicated among&nbsp;the nodes</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">along the SR Path. The result will be that once t=
he packet is forwarded by the ingress node, they may
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">experience the possible errors which may be preve=
nted by the negotiation in the control plane.</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">From the previous comments, we can see that in th=
e traditional LSP, the LSP setup is negotiated through
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">the signalling between the upstream node and the =
downstream node. During the negotiation, it is not only to
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">set up the forwarding the entry for the purpose o=
f reachablity, but also includes many aspects (I call them
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">as the operation and maintenence of the LSP. Hope=
 it is appropriate. ) such as the end-to-end connectivity</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">verification, the loop prevention, path MTU, nego=
tiation, path recording, error notification and handling,
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">etc. Though SR always proposes its advantage, in =
my opinion, these advantages&nbsp;are&nbsp;from the reachability
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">part such as the advantage that the label statck =
in the ingress node reduces the states in the network.&nbsp;
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">But the requirements of the operational and maint=
enance for the traditional LSP still exist. Taking into
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">account that the flooding mode of the IGP, it sto=
ps the communication between the nodes along the path,
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">the work may become more complex. According to th=
e past experience, the possible ways I could think out&nbsp;are
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">as follows:<br>
1) Depend on the third-party mechanisms. But the problem is that there may =
involve more mechanisms and there
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">may be no mechanisms. For example, LSP Ping can b=
e adopted to check the end-to-end connectivity or loop for
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">the SR-BE path, but it cannot be used for path MT=
U negotiation. For the end-to-end path recording, LSP Tracert</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">may have to be introduced. If these requirements =
and mechanisms are considered,&nbsp;it means SR does not reduce
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">the compexity. Instead&nbsp;it just transfers mor=
e complexity to the other possible signallings.<br>
2) Depend on one nodes to implement the possible functions. For example, fo=
r SR-TE path, it can depend on the
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">PCE or the ingress node to collect all path info =
proposed by path recording or even path MTU negotiation. Even so,
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">there is still some drawbacks for some scenarios =
if only depend on the ingress node. Moreover these methods
<br>
cannot apply </font><font face=3D"Courier">to SR-BE path.If the possible wo=
rk is done through the ingress node, it will begin to change the
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">essence of SR-BE and become the SR-TE. <br>
3) Leave as it is. That is, these issues are not solved for SR path. In my =
own opinion, 20 years ago, only
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">solving the reachability issues may be accepted. =
But today, as the concept of carrier-grade IP network has been
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">widely accepted </font><font face=3D"Courier">and=
 these features mentioned has been deployed in the traditional MPLS network=
, I don't think
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">they can be removed </font><font face=3D"Courier"=
>easily.<br>
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">In one word, though some advantage driven from th=
e reachbility of SR is apparent, the complexity introcuded by
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">the synthesized requirements are not reduced. And=
 it may become more complex for SR.</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">Regards,</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">Robin</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
</div>
</div>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
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https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
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Thread-Topic: New Comments on Segment Routing(9): Challenge of Interoperability of SR with LDP
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<p><font face=3D"Courier">Hi all authors of segment routing,</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">This is the ninth comments to discuss the possibl=
e issues proposed by the interoperability of SR with LDP.</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">In fact, I have not read the draft draft-filsfils=
-spring-segment-routing-ldp-interop-02 yet. According to
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">the past experience, I think the possilbe choice =
is no other than hierarchy or stitching.</font></p>
<p><br>
<font face=3D"Courier">I propose the first case as the following scenario,<=
/font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; SR&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; LDP&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; LDP&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; SR<br>
&nbsp; S11-----------S12----------S13---------S14---------S15<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | <br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | <br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | <br>
&nbsp; S21-----------S22----------S23---------S24---------S25<br>
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">Assume&nbsp;all other nodes&nbsp;support SR and o=
nly S12/S13/S14 support LDP. If the LSP stitching is adopted, there will</f=
ont></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">be following process:<br>
-- In S12, the egress SR-BE path will stitch the ingress LDP LSP, If the li=
nk between the S12 and S13 fails
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">firstly, then restored,&nbsp;the IGP-LDP sync is =
also necessary.
<br>
-- In S14, the egress LDP LSP will stitch the ingress SR-BE path.</font></p=
>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">Morevoer, if the scenario is changes to the oppos=
ite way, that is
</font><font face=3D"Courier">all other nodes support LDP and only S12/S13/=
S14 </font>
</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">support SR, it has to introduce the proxy egress =
for SR-BE path&nbsp;which
</font><font face=3D"Courier">has explained in the previous comments that <=
/font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">it will be difficult to be supported by the SR.</=
font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">From the case, could I say that the SR-LDP intero=
perability issue is more difficult that the IGP-LDP sync
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">which could be removed by SR as claimed? </font><=
/p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<p><br>
<font face=3D"Courier">I propose the second case as the following scenario,=
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; LDP&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; LDP&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <br>
&nbsp; S11-----------S12----------S13<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp; | <br>
&nbsp;SR|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; |SR <br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp; | <br>
&nbsp; S21-----------S22----------S23<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; SR&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; SR</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">Assume S11/S12/S13 support LDP and S11/S21/S22/S2=
3/S13 support SR. If the primary path to S13 is S11-&gt;S12-&gt;S13
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">is based on LDP LSP. In order to achieve the 100%=
 network coverage, LDP remote peer can be set up between S11
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">and S13 to advertise label mapping directly from =
the S13 to S11. The the backup path can be: the backup LDP
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">label goes through the SR path S11-&gt;S21-&gt;S2=
2-&gt;S23-&gt;S13. This means that the Remote LFA must co-exist with TI-LFA=
.</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">Could I say that the combined FRR solutions is mo=
re complex than one of these FRR solutions?</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">From the pervious comments, we can see that some =
of the existing LDP scenarios cannot be supported by SR-BE path.</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">This means if SR is adopted, it has to co-exist w=
ith LDP in these scenarios. For the legacy network using LDP,
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">if SR is adopted to replace the LDP, it is also i=
nevitable that the SR has to co-exist with LDP.
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">If these scenarios happens, there will be a mess =
of solutions in the network. In fact, this is not a new one.
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">Almost ten years ago, when we implemented the LDP=
, we assumed that there can be one network in which some nodes</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">run LDP DoD, others run LDP DU, some nodes run LD=
P Ordered, others run LDP Independent, some nodes run LDP liberal,</font></=
p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">others run LDP conservative. Finally we found the=
 issues could not converge at all. At last we had to give up
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">and provided the specification for any network th=
ere is only one label advertisement mode, only one label
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">distribution mode, only one label retention mode.=
 Until today DU &#43; Ordered &#43; Liberal becomes almost the most
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">popular choice. </font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">But&nbsp;for SR, it&nbsp;works in the totally dif=
ferent way from the LDP in many aspects. If SR and LDP co-exist in one
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">network and the behaviors could not be unifyed th=
rough the unifying configuration, the mess of the solutions
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">is inevitable. Taking into account SR's interwork=
ing with LDP's two LSP advertisement mode, two LSP distribution
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">mode, two label retension mode, two types of LDP =
peer as well as new IGP-LDP stiching/hierarchy/sync and the
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">intworking LFA/R-LFA FRR for LDP with the TI-LFA =
for SR, I don't think this is an easy work to clarify all
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">possible details in one draft and much of the det=
ails maybe implementation specific and potential risk for the<br>
interoperability. Moreover, based on the analysis in the previous comments,=
 there is some requirements of LDP
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">which cannot be supported by SR-BE path yet now. =
If these issues are not solved, the introducing of SR in the
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">LDP network will affect the normal process of LDP=
.</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">According to the above analyisis, my recommendati=
on for the network transition is that if there is the scenario
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">in which SR-BE path is truly applicable, it is be=
tter to replace the existing LDP all at
</font><font face=3D"Courier">once to avoid the p</font><font face=3D"Couri=
er">ossible</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">interoperability issue. </font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">Regarding the interoperability of SR-TE path with=
 RSVP-TE, the general problem is that both SR-TE path and RSVP-TE</font></p=
>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">cannot support proxy egress now and the stitching=
 would not work at all. The only way is just to replace the whole
</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">RSVP-TE LSP with the SR-TE path if the SR-TE path=
 is truly applicable.</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">Regards,</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier">Robin</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Courier"></font>&nbsp;</p>
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