From nobody Sun Dec 1 13:35:35 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 719EF120105 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2019 13:35:33 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PB73nPT3gbia for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2019 13:35:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wr1-x42b.google.com (mail-wr1-x42b.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::42b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2081312008F for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2019 13:35:31 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wr1-x42b.google.com with SMTP id a15so41757613wrf.9 for ; Sun, 01 Dec 2019 13:35:31 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=fpO3z2HW+6LtjtaIXGjA9yB5x5kUHo403pL78j/uCEQ=; b=AXZJnYzFiibcdh4nzd1Q+FctePZDrn2SajLLkFS9zs51xLoCk0dHBH42B9mWHE8CXv YAURnv/EKsCHhyY5e0RVPJQ/f13uZtUjQjUvNLa+lG6tp4yUbv+Pwj7Qr0k7sDlOuVlG M2beqkv/3dJ6ypt26FyvYqlLURjn+paOxcY2B46NoDqtpnX0iEueg1yAV4rCZ94GR49K /qaUJPcO53qBC/Kgq5+m1zRMGcISfZQElx7UPO64TwFdK2NrykfLc6lLcpQxpS1959iC fv6STWax6wPYHJQHlDh68911TXT4E5dW0nZcep3qYfXLkcZQOTQh1QUQ6uO04FjxHu/H Uj2w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=fpO3z2HW+6LtjtaIXGjA9yB5x5kUHo403pL78j/uCEQ=; b=S4m6bYYFOjImWKrseKJa5aZwOYI9HCtYUkMMxE20u6fJ8egLFXRkvj8KHnxW5VEbv+ VwwKXft7VgRJiwtW7tab3sSpRI0BHhdUH4cnYwzFZs7CDTeSbNDssA31EDRwFtKZC3sw Jrfqh3OjbsQ4i8YWTbVBm8whlF3w2GaANwObaD7rnJPeJAJavzmihnELI+Zn4V7LXQyQ URdk94HK7wGKdfkbdH/Lsz4HyeqReJVzpC1z4mnR0V3DCygNhKFMK6TZAX6wp6izcKeQ zSH4NsnYuR/by1X4gODftfEu95itutsNw0p50QKJgosDhr7qMgXAj6LGWCcbZ6IudWdN 86rA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVEgJ8kil5TZpFgUNeBTa41GaU72Uh7mJjGTolhaZvnUF48CrtV 4bXCCdS93MsOwTpFv7BqVu8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxuO8Yz54K44D1wa5Yb961052slu/QgcAqznp9UO31lI0u02/t5owHEuVQMM+g8PEVbZmRyvg== X-Received: by 2002:adf:fcc4:: with SMTP id f4mr22650451wrs.247.1575236129549; Sun, 01 Dec 2019 13:35:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?IPv6:2601:647:5a00:ef0b:9c6f:f973:cf79:914d? ([2601:647:5a00:ef0b:9c6f:f973:cf79:914d]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id u22sm19375012wru.30.2019.12.01.13.35.27 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 01 Dec 2019 13:35:28 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Hinden Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_CF74ED88-42A9-463C-9C56-3FBCF279093E"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2019 13:35:24 -0800 In-Reply-To: Cc: Bob Hinden , SPRING WG To: Ron Bonica References: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] SRv6 Network Programming and Link Local Source Addresses X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2019 21:35:33 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_CF74ED88-42A9-463C-9C56-3FBCF279093E Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Ron, > On Nov 30, 2019, at 12:36 PM, Ron Bonica = wrote: >=20 > Pablo, >=20 >=20 >=20 > Consider the packet (SA,DA) (S3, S2, S1; SL) where: >=20 >=20 >=20 > =E2=80=A2 SA is link-local (fe80) > =E2=80=A2 DA, S3, S2, and S1 are all END.X >=20 >=20 > Section 4.2 suggests that this packet will be delivered over multiple = hops to its destination, regardless of its link-local source address. I would think that RFC2460 Section 2.5.6. "Link-Local IPv6 Unicast = Addresses=E2=80=9D covers this: Link-Local addresses are for use on a single link. Link-Local addresses have the following format: | 10 | | bits | 54 bits | 64 bits | +----------+-------------------------+----------------------------+ |1111111010| 0 | interface ID | +----------+-------------------------+----------------------------+ Link-Local addresses are designed to be used for addressing on a single link for purposes such as automatic address configuration, neighbor discovery, or when no routers are present. Routers must not forward any packets with Link-Local source or destination addresses to other links. Bob >=20 >=20 >=20 > Is this the case? >=20 >=20 >=20 > Ron >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Juniper Business Use Only > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring --Apple-Mail=_CF74ED88-42A9-463C-9C56-3FBCF279093E Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEm0rfRsOCoyamPexGrut0EXfnu6gFAl3kMhwACgkQrut0EXfn u6jSywgAv+Fv+rVgRhM5f7OkmuR61Ltc23ec+UikYZJA0lxvDB/P4oFvXvZ/ZMqv Rn2eG196OkmcjLCLIqXsgJ41SShqv1GRr0pFs+kT+v+o88mL7GzRYdWhzHKm+sXD JTEGyZo7F+UHTEJAjsNiSMUh3B7q1aKJH4vbsgk1I/QAfi6Q+3nJjHjaKFxiyu5Y RC6ueyM78PnTaDzqjmkm4C5Zb+WVRmuL0XIRkuvOQQf1Ey9fG63vN+WLVugNkLfY 7GVDeFyNbGtzvickU4q7WNOkRMzCWdg9JsLtoeRo7J5medTBeguK8GWGF/nR7vXj JsvOHnkdedT3DodshiOhTJ1uTv0VYw== =I5Sp -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_CF74ED88-42A9-463C-9C56-3FBCF279093E-- From nobody Sun Dec 1 14:30:51 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3C8D12011A for ; 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Sun, 01 Dec 2019 14:30:47 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Mark Smith Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2019 09:30:35 +1100 Message-ID: To: Bob Hinden Cc: Ron Bonica , SPRING WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000b556eb0598ac0324" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] SRv6 Network Programming and Link Local Source Addresses X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2019 22:30:50 -0000 --000000000000b556eb0598ac0324 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, 2 Dec 2019, 08:35 Bob Hinden, wrote: > Ron, > > > On Nov 30, 2019, at 12:36 PM, Ron Bonica 40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote: > > > > Pablo, > > > > > > > > Consider the packet (SA,DA) (S3, S2, S1; SL) where: > > > > > > > > =E2=80=A2 SA is link-local (fe80) > > =E2=80=A2 DA, S3, S2, and S1 are all END.X > > > > > > Section 4.2 suggests that this packet will be delivered over multiple > hops to its destination, regardless of its link-local source address. > > I would think that RFC2460 Section 2.5.6. "Link-Local IPv6 Unicast > Addresses=E2=80=9D covers this: > > Link-Local addresses are for use on a single link. Link-Local > addresses have the following format: > > | 10 | > | bits | 54 bits | 64 bits | > +----------+-------------------------+----------------------------+ > |1111111010| 0 | interface ID | > +----------+-------------------------+----------------------------+ > > Link-Local addresses are designed to be used for addressing on a > single link for purposes such as automatic address configuration, > neighbor discovery, or when no routers are present. > > Routers must not forward any packets with Link-Local source or > destination addresses to other links. > I think that's RFC4291. RFC4007, "IPv6 Scoped Address Architecture" does too, more generally and probably more formally, in particular section 9, "Forwarding". Regards, Mark. > Bob > > > > > > > > > > Is this the case? > > > > > > > > Ron > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Juniper Business Use Only > > _______________________________________________ > > spring mailing list > > spring@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > --000000000000b556eb0598ac0324 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Mon, 2 Dec 2019, 08:35 Bob Hinden, <bob.hinden@gmail.com> wrote:
Ron,

> On Nov 30, 2019, at 12:36 PM, Ron Bonica <rbonica=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>= wrote:
>
> Pablo,
>
>
>
> Consider the packet (SA,DA) (S3, S2, S1; SL) where:
>
>
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 SA is link-local (fe80)
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 DA, S3, S2, and S1 are all END.X >
>
> Section 4.2 suggests that this packet will be delivered over multiple = hops to its destination, regardless of its link-local source address.

I would think that RFC2460 Section 2.5.6. "Link-Local IPv6 Unicast Add= resses=E2=80=9D covers this:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0Link-Local addresses are for use on a single link.=C2=A0 Link-= Local
=C2=A0 =C2=A0addresses have the following format:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A010=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
=C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 bits=C2=A0 =C2=A0 |=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A05= 4 bits=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= 64 bits=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
=C2=A0 =C2=A0+----------+-------------------------+------------------------= ----+
=C2=A0 =C2=A0|1111111010|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A00=C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0interf= ace ID=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
=C2=A0 =C2=A0+----------+-------------------------+------------------------= ----+

=C2=A0 =C2=A0Link-Local addresses are designed to be used for addressing on= a
=C2=A0 =C2=A0single link for purposes such as automatic address configurati= on,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0neighbor discovery, or when no routers are present.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0Routers must not forward any packets with Link-Local source or=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0destination addresses to other links.

I think that's RFC429= 1.

RFC4007, "IPv6 S= coped Address Architecture" does too, more generally and probably more= formally, in particular section 9, "Forwarding".

Regards,
Mark.=



Bob


>
>
>
> Is this the case?
>
>
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 R= on
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Juniper Business Use Only
> _______________________________________________
> spring mailing list
> spring@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring

_______________________________________________
spring mailing list
spring@ietf.org
h= ttps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
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boundary="_000_BN7PR05MB5699616A8A4F8DFD876C8352AE400BN7PR05MB5699namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: c2468a9e-0533-45dc-f36e-08d776b065b7 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 01 Dec 2019 22:47:08.7691 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: gNxn0PYfyhJtD8eBsUe5OS9zzaVebod4uAfcW9SA/w7575ZrPN/wcqk8TUDqxQTjGsWFmjilDqT7F9FbCGww1g== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN7PR05MB4451 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.95,18.0.572 definitions=2019-12-01_04:2019-11-29,2019-12-01 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_spam_notspam policy=outbound_spam score=0 phishscore=0 mlxscore=0 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 priorityscore=1501 clxscore=1015 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 lowpriorityscore=0 spamscore=0 bulkscore=0 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-1910280000 definitions=main-1912010204 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] SRv6 Network Programming and Link Local Source Addresses X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2019 22:47:14 -0000 --_000_BN7PR05MB5699616A8A4F8DFD876C8352AE400BN7PR05MB5699namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mark, Bob, Yes, I agree that routers should not forward packets with link local source= addresses. Pablo, Maybe we should update section 4.2 of the network programming draft to refl= ect this? Ron From: Mark Smith Sent: Sunday, December 1, 2019 5:31 PM To: Bob Hinden Cc: Ron Bonica ; SPRING WG Subject: Re: [spring] SRv6 Network Programming and Link Local Source Addres= ses On Mon, 2 Dec 2019, 08:35 Bob Hinden, > wrote: Ron, > On Nov 30, 2019, at 12:36 PM, Ron Bonica > wrote: > > Pablo, > > > > Consider the packet (SA,DA) (S3, S2, S1; SL) where: > > > > * SA is link-local (fe80) > * DA, S3, S2, and S1 are all END.X > > > Section 4.2 suggests that this packet will be delivered over multiple hop= s to its destination, regardless of its link-local source address. I would think that RFC2460 Section 2.5.6. "Link-Local IPv6 Unicast Addresse= s" covers this: Link-Local addresses are for use on a single link. Link-Local addresses have the following format: | 10 | | bits | 54 bits | 64 bits | +----------+-------------------------+----------------------------+ |1111111010| 0 | interface ID | +----------+-------------------------+----------------------------+ Link-Local addresses are designed to be used for addressing on a single link for purposes such as automatic address configuration, neighbor discovery, or when no routers are present. Routers must not forward any packets with Link-Local source or destination addresses to other links. I think that's RFC4291. RFC4007, "IPv6 Scoped Address Architecture" does too, more generally and pr= obably more formally, in particular section 9, "Forwarding". Regards, Mark. Bob > > > > Is this the case? > > > > Ron > > > > > > > > > > > Juniper Business Use Only > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring _______________________________________________ spring mailing list spring@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring Juniper Business Use Only --_000_BN7PR05MB5699616A8A4F8DFD876C8352AE400BN7PR05MB5699namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Mark, Bob,

 

Yes, I agree that routers should not forward packets= with link local source addresses.

 

Pablo,

 

Maybe we should update section 4.2 of the network pr= ogramming draft to reflect this?

 

        &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;            &nb= sp;     Ron

 

 

From: Mark Smith <markzzzsmith@gmail.com&g= t;
Sent: Sunday, December 1, 2019 5:31 PM
To: Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com>
Cc: Ron Bonica <rbonica@juniper.net>; SPRING WG <spring@iet= f.org>
Subject: Re: [spring] SRv6 Network Programming and Link Local Source= Addresses

 

 

On Mon, 2 Dec 2019, 08:35 Bob Hinden, <bob.hinden@gmail.com>= ; wrote:

Ron,

> On Nov 30, 2019, at 12:36 PM, Ron Bonica <rbonica=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf= .org> wrote:
>
> Pablo,
>
>
>
> Consider the packet (SA,DA) (S3, S2, S1; SL) where:
>
>
>
>       • SA is link-local (fe80)
>       • DA, S3, S2, and S1 are all END.X
>
>
> Section 4.2 suggests that this packet will be delivered over multiple = hops to its destination, regardless of its link-local source address.

I would think that RFC2460 Section 2.5.6. "Link-Local IPv6 Unicast Add= resses” covers this:

   Link-Local addresses are for use on a single link.  Link-= Local
   addresses have the following format:

   |   10     |
   |  bits    |         5= 4 bits         |         = 64 bits           |
   +----------+-------------------------+------------= ----------------+
   |1111111010|           0  &= nbsp;          |       interfa= ce ID         |
   +----------+-------------------------+------------= ----------------+

   Link-Local addresses are designed to be used for addressing on= a
   single link for purposes such as automatic address configurati= on,
   neighbor discovery, or when no routers are present.

   Routers must not forward any packets with Link-Local source or=
   destination addresses to other links.

 

I think that's RFC4291.

 

RFC4007, "IPv6 Scoped Address Architecture"= ; does too, more generally and probably more formally, in particular sectio= n 9, "Forwarding".

 

Regards,

Mark.

 

 


Bob


>
>
>
> Is this the case?
>
>
>
>                    &= nbsp;                    =                     Ron<= br> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Juniper Business Use Only
> _______________________________________________
> spring mailing list
> spring@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring

_______________________________________________
spring mailing list
spring@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spri= ng

 

Juniper Business Use Only

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([2601:647:5a00:ef0b:9c6f:f973:cf79:914d]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id m1sm36803218wrv.37.2019.12.01.14.50.50 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 01 Dec 2019 14:50:51 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Hinden Message-Id: <4DB1F409-CE21-425F-88D3-8C9B753958C4@gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_9372D419-2FE0-4BA1-AC7F-ABB4F0031624"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2019 14:50:48 -0800 In-Reply-To: Cc: Bob Hinden , Ron Bonica , SPRING WG To: Mark Smith References: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] SRv6 Network Programming and Link Local Source Addresses X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2019 22:50:57 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_9372D419-2FE0-4BA1-AC7F-ABB4F0031624 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On Dec 1, 2019, at 2:30 PM, Mark Smith wrote: >=20 >=20 >=20 > On Mon, 2 Dec 2019, 08:35 Bob Hinden, wrote: > Ron, >=20 > > On Nov 30, 2019, at 12:36 PM, Ron Bonica = wrote: > > > > Pablo, > > > > > > > > Consider the packet (SA,DA) (S3, S2, S1; SL) where: > > > > > > > > =E2=80=A2 SA is link-local (fe80) > > =E2=80=A2 DA, S3, S2, and S1 are all END.X > > > > > > Section 4.2 suggests that this packet will be delivered over = multiple hops to its destination, regardless of its link-local source = address. >=20 > I would think that RFC2460 Section 2.5.6. "Link-Local IPv6 Unicast = Addresses=E2=80=9D covers this: >=20 > Link-Local addresses are for use on a single link. Link-Local > addresses have the following format: >=20 > | 10 | > | bits | 54 bits | 64 bits | > +----------+-------------------------+----------------------------+ > |1111111010| 0 | interface ID | > +----------+-------------------------+----------------------------+ >=20 > Link-Local addresses are designed to be used for addressing on a > single link for purposes such as automatic address configuration, > neighbor discovery, or when no routers are present. >=20 > Routers must not forward any packets with Link-Local source or > destination addresses to other links. >=20 > I think that's RFC4291. Sorry, of course, it RFC4291. Thanks, Bob >=20 > RFC4007, "IPv6 Scoped Address Architecture" does too, more generally = and probably more formally, in particular section 9, "Forwarding". >=20 > Regards, > Mark. >=20 >=20 >=20 > Bob >=20 >=20 > > > > > > > > Is this the case? > > > > > > > > Ron > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Juniper Business Use Only > > _______________________________________________ > > spring mailing list > > spring@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring >=20 > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring --Apple-Mail=_9372D419-2FE0-4BA1-AC7F-ABB4F0031624 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEm0rfRsOCoyamPexGrut0EXfnu6gFAl3kQ8gACgkQrut0EXfn u6jUgAf6AoGcQwD2sDoPDbkGVQ6iLs+xEp5/4al/Jti+8C/lVVTcxvFfCl9QwxPQ uyTTDDmtWErXCt143y+ybx5h1XiPz1Lki+NlnFkj1e+RDJ+sV8urBk2KVuoVdbqR 5LWbbLmQNtnnT6Yx07akUbvw2sfLgmrIm90cGUETmnxY58y/X/FQHcNUDnm50TrQ 4CU2reMwA96S+L8luJNtBzP9V3HvPdsE+EwAClEOMQTCVWPuGtEiv/g0MSIFlFFW l6vQTpIESm1zjEzFfXDU5PfTvxLN3DhdU9oWrlaiy1el6VAWTZy2UAgsgWldPOQ2 RMkfVrqOolm6URKUOw2YySitLTGaFQ== =kdJ6 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_9372D419-2FE0-4BA1-AC7F-ABB4F0031624-- From nobody Sun Dec 1 14:56:27 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FC48120116 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2019 14:56:25 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HNuPXqAmd-qp for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2019 14:56:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wm1-x333.google.com (mail-wm1-x333.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::333]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9ECAE120058 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2019 14:56:23 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wm1-x333.google.com with SMTP id p17so15185990wma.1 for ; Sun, 01 Dec 2019 14:56:23 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=RGLu6hfg0qdJG1XEjwffa1ZMG9IFDyhZcIZnLTMWeIk=; b=aaA19pPW6wS7U79jgxPD+KdIfjq69j+HDEKAwp9T7r2aSmi+qPixuX+iyFHoNnjMu6 cBw2frYY6TPcyqcMZ2zwOYOkbaXWkbajBW4m65oEyD7ES3vP17I+no9d7L9VylUpw3iH 4WOBZ5zQHLQkRUaBdNrVxQgkNt79yKP3NmExd9iZPI3p5EzxSBan51YspjQpgIDX3ZSI C1EepnT6mSSVmNcvSEN1KMbp1LFJMjZkCXDItvdMbFChDAytH7Rwf736Y6VPWIeph87R yuYZBj+HgLsAJBCShwek3wuuAIVWyvsFcGi6IYsPq8OLhIBA5t52+khfAaYXJOb3mXBC Vv+g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=RGLu6hfg0qdJG1XEjwffa1ZMG9IFDyhZcIZnLTMWeIk=; b=OL109TwaFy2CDiOIjNSaBVkM3Z1PGYT1/GhZs9rnCAPygefw/1mJrLH70TMF8kLKSR yqq8TeZgY+d2noZ+9jaCkjv+zeLIPN+RT8u5bfo4rqYDmc9m/kLDuyaqxbHo0oOq6AeD k9wZxlpC6DO8c6Yd5eiG1N5fwgV09JTW6AJHHjRDn8GNYMPoa6i/LC9fRWoI9qPiApF3 1Wm0QIM+ot17EwQDujdkuzyN/oYsKmwa+tA9cNTSRXlw/q3csMFVzb7K2fPgK9smb6eQ u/89iLD/U/jlzWzzMBQUxYduZR2upVu55hFhgOojuR8owI0DqfPZQcVcje3haWZxJtJx MXvQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVT8b4KsRddMoujSKavC5X3b/iEF4xqultYG4DvPdrcjD54OsVK vkT50+s0bY0FL5jb4B1rFIo= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxNrFbSiuN74px8pAlFfu1HqQVmLm16MYzlzukLmxYaGFjq8SJOa6JS+FQhO1WlKh6DW78P1w== X-Received: by 2002:a7b:cb4a:: with SMTP id v10mr24210854wmj.106.1575240981941; Sun, 01 Dec 2019 14:56:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?IPv6:2601:647:5a00:ef0b:9c6f:f973:cf79:914d? ([2601:647:5a00:ef0b:9c6f:f973:cf79:914d]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id z6sm25147133wrw.36.2019.12.01.14.56.20 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 01 Dec 2019 14:56:21 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Hinden Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_9B7173A4-C60B-4F48-A463-FE5DB06EE028"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2019 14:56:17 -0800 In-Reply-To: Cc: Bob Hinden , Mark Smith , SPRING WG To: Ron Bonica References: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] SRv6 Network Programming and Link Local Source Addresses X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2019 22:56:26 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_9B7173A4-C60B-4F48-A463-FE5DB06EE028 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Ron, > On Dec 1, 2019, at 2:47 PM, Ron Bonica wrote: >=20 > Mark, Bob, >=20 > Yes, I agree that routers should not forward packets with link local = source addresses. or Destination addresses. >=20 > Pablo, >=20 > Maybe we should update section 4.2 of the network programming draft to = reflect this? I was thinking that unless network programming has text that might cause = one to think it overrides the defined behavior from rfc4291 for = link-local addresses, I am not sure it has to be mentioned. Bob >=20 > Ron >=20 >=20 > From: Mark Smith > Sent: Sunday, December 1, 2019 5:31 PM > To: Bob Hinden > Cc: Ron Bonica ; SPRING WG > Subject: Re: [spring] SRv6 Network Programming and Link Local Source = Addresses >=20 >=20 >=20 > On Mon, 2 Dec 2019, 08:35 Bob Hinden, wrote: > Ron, >=20 > > On Nov 30, 2019, at 12:36 PM, Ron Bonica = wrote: > > > > Pablo, > > > > > > > > Consider the packet (SA,DA) (S3, S2, S1; SL) where: > > > > > > > > =E2=80=A2 SA is link-local (fe80) > > =E2=80=A2 DA, S3, S2, and S1 are all END.X > > > > > > Section 4.2 suggests that this packet will be delivered over = multiple hops to its destination, regardless of its link-local source = address. >=20 > I would think that RFC2460 Section 2.5.6. "Link-Local IPv6 Unicast = Addresses=E2=80=9D covers this: >=20 > Link-Local addresses are for use on a single link. Link-Local > addresses have the following format: >=20 > | 10 | > | bits | 54 bits | 64 bits | > +----------+-------------------------+----------------------------+ > |1111111010| 0 | interface ID | > +----------+-------------------------+----------------------------+ >=20 > Link-Local addresses are designed to be used for addressing on a > single link for purposes such as automatic address configuration, > neighbor discovery, or when no routers are present. >=20 > Routers must not forward any packets with Link-Local source or > destination addresses to other links. >=20 > I think that's RFC4291. >=20 > RFC4007, "IPv6 Scoped Address Architecture" does too, more generally = and probably more formally, in particular section 9, "Forwarding". >=20 > Regards, > Mark. >=20 >=20 >=20 > Bob >=20 >=20 > > > > > > > > Is this the case? > > > > > > > > Ron > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Juniper Business Use Only > > _______________________________________________ > > spring mailing list > > spring@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring >=20 > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring >=20 > Juniper Business Use Only --Apple-Mail=_9B7173A4-C60B-4F48-A463-FE5DB06EE028 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEm0rfRsOCoyamPexGrut0EXfnu6gFAl3kRREACgkQrut0EXfn u6g2SAgAjkgfvxoZALR4sREpUgT+wzX3q3WKt77YoMJ/xEPgxL55ZWRIQyZVihms 9+8pC6NhUqahYDzqO53990Y3dAxtBRRLh572a9SPjYS6blXWgK14HEs3hq9uD0qN 80WFjZaY4sHkwHQfF9meL+SCFXMncWaRqJBn/3wx9l31QvJNMrJdBbgPCuHVqxiE xhZ4SMeu20H0dS6d6eGDwzPjhBFiNXjFZ+OmXz6rDoEms2VoMrpNou/k+lKlpZrx lRz0yPT+YsL858sMBBiNPsYpDZQkXmLBxPsudYYwgOGGuhyZnHgt9s9C1uf3/pm4 tmDmRvYiLbxOIiDhFyvrUuhKBIuVeQ== =Iyb9 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- 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bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: pyM12+qmKqLSPSAX+lIzUpYeKGf6CQVE8Ptzdgf+rhJ4ilL9sYurI/7XkyiTGBOAzTfr+9hi8EKZE5Z/RVOvkw== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BYAPR05MB5559 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.95,18.0.572 definitions=2019-12-01_04:2019-11-29,2019-12-01 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_spam_notspam policy=outbound_spam score=0 lowpriorityscore=0 malwarescore=0 priorityscore=1501 suspectscore=0 impostorscore=0 bulkscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 phishscore=0 clxscore=1011 spamscore=0 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-1910280000 definitions=main-1912020044 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Draft for Node protection of intermediate nodes in SR Paths X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2019 05:09:58 -0000 --_000_BYAPR05MB3943CE8749F824CDDA88F3C8D5430BYAPR05MB3943namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Robert/Sasha, S-BFD based mechanism is head-end triggered protection. It is not a local = protection. S-BFD mechanism is orthogonal to the mechanism described in this draft and = an operator can choose what kind of protection makes more sense to his/her network. In many cases, node-protecting backup path will be different from link-prot= ecting/SRLG protecting backup path. If you really want to use link-protecting backup path when link fails and n= ode protecting backup path when node fails, You will have to download both link protecting and node-protecting backup p= aths in FIB and detect which failure really happened and have the ability in hardware to use appropriate= backup path. None of these is in the scope of this document. Rgds Shraddha From: Alexander Vainshtein Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2019 8:15 PM To: Robert Raszuk ; Shraddha Hegde Cc: spring@ietf.org; rtgwg@ietf.org; rtg-bfd@ietf.org Subject: Re: [spring] Draft for Node protection of intermediate nodes in SR= Paths Robert, On the second thought, for the purpose of this draft (i.e. in the scope of = SR) it is possible to implement your suggestion by running S-BFD sessions b= etween R7 (as the initiator) and each other adjacency of R8 (acting as Ref= lectors) of a SR policy with list of two SIDs: - protected adjacency between R7 and R8 - Node SID of the specific "other" adjacency of R8. If all these sessions fail, R7 can reliably consider R8 as failed. I am not sure this would be much better than multi-hop IP BFD, and it looks= much more complicated to me. What do you think? Get Outlook for Android ________________________________ From: Alexander Vainshtein > Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2019, 13:15 To: Robert Raszuk; Shraddha Hegde Cc: spring@ietf.org; rtgwg@ietf.org; rtg-bfd@ietf.org Subject: Re: [spring] Draft for Node protection of intermediate nodes in SR= Paths Robert, Lots of thanks for a prompt response. I respectfully disagree with your statement that BFD implementation is usu= ally offloaded to the HW of the ingress line card. I do not think this can= wor for MH BFD sessions because the ingress and egress line cards are not = known in advance and change with the routing changes A good multi-hop BFD implementation should be ready to overcome this.. The= re are many ways to achieve that. A naive implementation that runs in SW of= the control card is also possible of course. And they would sensd and rece= ive packets My 2c. Get Outlook for Android ________________________________ From: Robert Raszuk > Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2019, 12:37 To: Alexander Vainshtein; Shraddha Hegde Cc: spring@ietf.org; rtgwg@ietf.org; rtg-bfd@ietf.org Subject: Re: [spring] Draft for Node protection of intermediate nodes in SR= Paths Hi Sasha, On the surface your suggestion may look cool - but if you zoom in - I do no= t think it will work in practice. See - one of the biggest value of BFD is its offload to line card's hardwar= e. And in most cases it is ingress line card to the box. So if you instruct= such hardware to respond to SID address loopback you still did not gain mu= ch in terms of detection router's fabric failures, remote LC failure or con= trol plane issues which could soon result in box failure. The catalogue of = router failures is of course much more colorful. If you ask BFD to be responded by RP/RE it no longer has the BFD advantage. IMHO the best way to detect node failure is actually to send the probes *ac= ross* the node under test to its peers. The way I would think of establishing such m-hop sessions would be fully au= tomated with one knob per IGP adj. ex: "bfd detect-node-failure [max N]" wh= ere local BFD subsystem would create N sessions to IGP peers of the node we= are to protect. LSDB has those peers so no new protocol extension is neede= d, perhaps even no new IETF draft is required :). N would be the limit of s= uch sessions in case the node under protection has say 10s of peers. Defaul= t could be perhaps even 1. Thx, Robert. On Sat, Nov 23, 2019 at 10:00 AM Alexander Vainshtein > wrote: Shraddha, Robert and all, Regarding Robert's question: I wonder if multi-hop IP BFD session with addresses used as /32 (or /128) p= refixes serving as Nose SIDs of R8 and R7 respectively could be used as suc= h a trigger by R7? Such a session would not respond to link failures, and I= find it problematic to imagine a scenario when it would be kept UP in the = case of a real node failure. Of course such a session would have to be slow enough not to react to link = failures. But it still couks be much faster than IGP conversion IMHO. My 2c, Sasha Such Get Outlook for Android ________________________________ From: spring > on b= ehalf of Robert Raszuk > Sent: Friday, November 22, 2019, 11:22 To: Shraddha Hegde Cc: spring@ietf.org; rtgwg@ietf.org Subject: Re: [spring] Draft for Node protection of intermediate nodes in SR= Paths Hi Shraddha, I have one question to the document. As you know the critical element for the effective protection of any scheme= is the failure detection. On that your draft seems to have just one little= paragraph: Note that R7 activates the node-protecting backup path when it detects that the link to R8 has failed. R7 does not know that node R8 has actually failed. However, the node-protecting backup path is computed assuming that the failure of the link to R8 implies that R8 has failed. Well IMO this is not enough. Specifically there can be a lot of types of no= de failure when link is still up. Moreover there can be even running BFD ac= ross the link just fine when say fabric failure occurs at R8. While this is not solely issue with this draft, it is our common IETF failu= re to provide correct means of detecting end to end path or fragments of pa= th failures (I am specifically not calling them segment here :). For example I propose that to effectively detect R8 failure as node failure= which is the topic of your proposal a mechanism is clearly defined and inc= ludes bi-dir data plane probes send between R7-R9, R3-R7, R4-R7, R4-R9, R3-= R9 Many thx, Robert. On Fri, Nov 22, 2019 at 4:38 AM Shraddha Hegde > wrote: WG, This is the draft I pointed out that talks about solutions for providing no= de-protection. It covers Anycast case as well as keeping forwarding plane longer. https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hegde-spring-node-protection-for-sr-te-pa= ths-05 Review and comments solicited. Rgds Shraddha _______________________________________________ rtgwg mailing list rtgwg@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtgwg ___________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains informa= tion which is CONFIDENTIAL and which may be proprietary to ECI Telecom. If you have recei= ved this transmission in error, please inform us by e-mail, phone or fax, and then d= elete the original and all copies thereof. ___________________________________________________________________________ --_000_BYAPR05MB3943CE8749F824CDDA88F3C8D5430BYAPR05MB3943namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Robert/Sasha,

 

 

S-BFD based mechanism is  head-end triggered pr= otection. It is not a local protection.

S-BFD mechanism is orthogonal to the mechanism descr= ibed in this draft and an operator can

choose what kind of protection makes more sense to h= is/her network.

 

In many cases, node-protecting backup path will be d= ifferent from link-protecting/SRLG protecting backup path.

If you really want to use link-protecting backup pat= h when link fails and node protecting backup path when node fails,

You will have to download both link protecting and n= ode-protecting backup paths in FIB and detect which

failure really happened and have the ability in hard= ware to use appropriate backup path. None of these

is in the scope of this document.

 

Rgds

Shraddha

 

 

From: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vain= shtein@ecitele.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2019 8:15 PM
To: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>; Shraddha Hegde <shra= ddha@juniper.net>
Cc: spring@ietf.org; rtgwg@ietf.org; rtg-bfd@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [spring] Draft for Node protection of intermediate node= s in SR Paths

 

Robert,

On the second thought, for the purpose of this draft (i.e. in the scop= e of SR) it is possible to implement your suggestion by running S-BFD sessi= ons between R7 (as the initiator) and each other adjacency of R8  (acting as Reflectors) of a SR policy wit= h list of two SIDs:

- protected adjacency between R7 and R8

- Node SID of the specific "other" adjacency  of R8.

 

If all these sessions fail, R7 can reliably consider R8 as failed.&nbs= p;

 

I am not sure this would be much better than multi-hop IP BFD, and it = looks much more complicated to me. 

 

 

What do you think?

 

 

 

 

From: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com= >
Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2019, 13:15
To: Robert Raszuk; Shraddha Hegde
Cc: spring@ietf.org; rtgwg@ietf.org; = rtg-bfd@ietf.org
Subject:= Re: [spring] Draft for Node protection of intermediate nod= es in SR Paths



Robert,

Lots of thanks for a prompt response.

 

I respectfully disagree with your statement that BFD implementation&nb= sp; is usually offloaded to the HW of the ingress line card.  I do not= think this can wor for MH BFD sessions because the ingress and egress line cards are not known in advance and change with= the routing changes

A good  multi-hop BFD implementation should be ready to overcome = this.. There are many ways to achieve that. A naive implementation that run= s in SW of the control card is also possible of course. And they would sensd and receive packets 

 

My 2c.

 

From: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2019, 12:37
To: Alexander Vainshtein; Shraddha Hegde
Cc: spring@ietf.org; rtgwg@ietf.org; = rtg-bfd@ietf.org
Subject:= Re: [spring] Draft for Node protection of intermediate nod= es in SR Paths



Hi Sasha,

 

On the surface your suggestion may look cool - but i= f you zoom in - I do not think it will work in practice. 

 

See - one of the biggest value of BFD is its offload= to line card's hardware. And in most cases it is ingress line card to the = box. So if you instruct such hardware to respond to SID address loopback yo= u still did not gain much in terms of detection router's fabric failures, remote LC failure or control p= lane issues which could soon result in box failure. The catalogue of router= failures is of course much more colorful. 

 

If you ask BFD to be responded by RP/RE it no longer= has the BFD advantage. 

 

IMHO the best way to detect node failure is act= ually to send the probes *across* the node under test to its peers. 

 

The way I would think of establishing such m-hop ses= sions would be fully automated with one knob per IGP adj. ex: "bfd det= ect-node-failure [max N]" where local BFD subsystem would create N ses= sions to IGP peers of the node we are to protect. LSDB has those peers so no new protocol extension is needed, perhaps = even no new IETF draft is required :). N would be the limit of such session= s in case the node under protection has say 10s of peers. Default could be = perhaps even 1. 

 

Thx,

Robert.

 

 

On Sat, Nov 23, 2019 at 10:00 AM Alexander Vainshtei= n <Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com> wrote:

Shraddha, Robert and all,

Regarding Robert's question: 

I wonder if multi-hop IP BFD session with addresses used as /32 (or /1= 28) prefixes serving as Nose SIDs of R8 and R7 respectively could be used a= s such a trigger by R7? Such a session would not respond to link failures, and I find it problematic to imagine a= scenario when it would be kept UP in the case of a real node failure.=

 

Of course such a session would have to be slow enough not to react to = link failures. But it still couks be much faster than IGP conversion IMHO.<= o:p>

 

My 2c,

Sasha

 

Such

 

 

Get Outlook for Android

 

From: spring <spring-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf= of Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Sent: Friday, November 22, 2019, 11:22
To: Shraddha Hegde
Cc: spring@ietf.org; rt= gwg@ietf.org
Subject:= Re: [spring] Draft for Node protection of intermediate nod= es in SR Paths

 

Hi Shraddha,

 

I have one question to the document. 

 

As you know the critical element for the effect= ive protection of any scheme is the failure detection. On that your draft s= eems to have just one little paragraph: 

 

   =
Note that R7 activates the node-protecting backup path when it
   detects that the link to R8 h=
as failed.  R7 does not know that node
   R8 has actually failed. =
 However, the node-protecting backup path is
   computed assuming that the fa=
ilure of the link to R8 implies that R8
   has failed.=

 

Well IMO this is not enough. Specifically there= can be a lot of types of node failure when link is still up. Moreover ther= e can be even running BFD across the link just fine when say fabric failure= occurs at R8. 

 

While this is not solely issue with this draft, it i= s our common IETF failure to provide correct means of detecting end to end = path or fragments of path failures (I am specifically not calling them segm= ent here :). 

 

For example I propose that to effectively detect R8 = failure as node failure which is the topic of your proposal a mechanism is = clearly defined and includes bi-dir data plane probes send between R7-R9, R= 3-R7, R4-R7, R4-R9, R3-R9

 

Many thx,

Robert.

 

 

On Fri, Nov 22, 2019 at 4:38 AM Shraddha Hegde <s= hraddha=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf..org> wrote:

WG,

 

This is the draft I pointed out that talks about sol= utions for providing node-protection.

It covers Anycast case as well as keeping forwarding= plane longer.

 

Review and comments solicited.

 

Rgds

Shraddha

 

_______________________________________________
rtgwg mailing list
rtgwg@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinf= o/rtgwg

 

 


___________________________________________________________________________=

This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains informa= tion which is
CONFIDENTIAL and which may be proprietary to ECI Telecom. If you have recei= ved this
transmission in error, please inform us by e-mail, phone or fax, and then d= elete the original
and all copies thereof.
___________________________________________________________________________=

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15.20.2495.014; Mon, 2 Dec 2019 06:54:13 +0000 From: Alexander Vainshtein To: Shraddha Hegde CC: "spring@ietf.org" , "rtgwg@ietf.org" , "rtg-bfd@ietf.org" , Robert Raszuk Thread-Topic: [spring] Draft for Node protection of intermediate nodes in SR Paths Thread-Index: AQHVoRZrVSAXH6RCc0yN7BSQBwB5daeYdILlgAAdWICAAAdUGYAAOqyGgA2HaoCAABVX0w== Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2019 06:54:13 +0000 Message-ID: References: , , , In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: msip_labels: MSIP_Label_9784d817-3396-4a4f-b60c-3ef6b345fe55_Enabled=True; MSIP_Label_9784d817-3396-4a4f-b60c-3ef6b345fe55_SiteId=bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4; MSIP_Label_9784d817-3396-4a4f-b60c-3ef6b345fe55_SetDate=2019-12-02T04:57:07.0000000Z; MSIP_Label_9784d817-3396-4a4f-b60c-3ef6b345fe55_Name=Juniper Business Use Only; MSIP_Label_9784d817-3396-4a4f-b60c-3ef6b345fe55_ContentBits=0; MSIP_Label_9784d817-3396-4a4f-b60c-3ef6b345fe55_Method=Standard x-originating-ip: [46.189.28.55] 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2c514a61-08de-4519-b4c0-921fef62c42a X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: /MVPsLuyKzOLaNHCAd8QrvOTGqQsZbu7PqV/5F6sbjiQqWxd208U1Opjtf0YhoWAf9bHLutlAwd4LQBQ2fIPrA== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM0PR03MB4244 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-DetectorID-Processed: d8d3a2b3-1594-4c39-92fb-b8312fe65a8a Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Draft for Node protection of intermediate nodes in SR Paths X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2019 06:54:26 -0000 --_000_AM0PR03MB3828F1161645C155DA569F099D430AM0PR03MB3828eurp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Shraddha, Lots of thanks for athe tesponse. I probably did not express myself clearly enough. I will try to fix thst n= ow, and I apologise in advance for a long email. I have not been speaking about end-yo-end protecyion, only about local pro= tection against failure of an intermediate (a.k.a. pinned) node of an SR p= ath and, specifically, triggers for such protection. This context has been= actually defined by Robert in his original comment. To the best of my understanding, Robert's concern was that failure of the = link beteeen the pinned node of a SR path and its adjacency (the penultima= te node of the Segment represented by the Node SID of the pinned node) is = not a good enough indication of the pinned node failure. I agree with this statement even if my understanding of a good indication = differs from Robert's: - I think that it is not sufficiently specific and therefore could result = in flapping (local node protection activated and then released) -Robert's concern, to the best of my understanding, was that it could miss= some failures (e.g. the Fabric failure). Therefore I have suggested two possibilities for more specific and more rr= liabke detection of failure of the pinned node by its adjacency: 1. Run a multi-hop IP BFD session between the peniltimate node ans the pin= ned ones using prefixes acting as Node SIDs of this pair. This wiuld igno= re link failures but locally detect such node failurs as power-down or cra= sh. 2. Run S-BFD sessions to all other adjacencies of the pinned node using i= n each case a list of two SIDs: the protected Adj-SID to the pinned node f= ollowed by tge Node SID of the other adjacency, ans declare pinned node fa= ilure when all these sessions fail. This would again ignore failure of the= link between the penultimate node and the pinned node but detect various = real failures of the pinned node, e.g. failure of its Fabric. In any case I think that it woyld make sense to separate the protection sc= heme proposed in the draft from specific triggers for its activation simil= ar to how this has been done in MPLS Egress Protection Framework draft. My 2c. Get Outlook for Android ________________________________ From: Shraddha Hegde Sent: Monday, December 2, 2019, 06:10 To: Alexander Vainshtein; Robert Raszuk Cc: spring@ietf.org; rtgwg@ietf.org; rtg-bfd@ietf.org Subject: RE: [spring] Draft for Node protection of intermediate nodes in S= R Paths Robert/Sasha, S-BFD based mechanism is head-end triggered protection. It is not a local= protection. S-BFD mechanism is orthogonal to the mechanism described in this draft and= an operator can choose what kind of protection makes more sense to his/her network. In many cases, node-protecting backup path will be different from link-pro= tecting/SRLG protecting backup path. If you really want to use link-protecting backup path when link fails and = node protecting backup path when node fails, You will have to download both link protecting and node-protecting backup = paths in FIB and detect which failure really happened and have the ability in hardware to use appropriat= e backup path. None of these is in the scope of this document. Rgds Shraddha From: Alexander Vainshtein Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2019 8:15 PM To: Robert Raszuk ; Shraddha Hegde Cc: spring@ietf.org; rtgwg@ietf.org; rtg-bfd@ietf.org Subject: Re: [spring] Draft for Node protection of intermediate nodes in S= R Paths Robert, On the second thought, for the purpose of this draft (i.e. in the scope of= SR) it is possible to implement your suggestion by running S-BFD sessions= between R7 (as the initiator) and each other adjacency of R8 (acting as = Reflectors) of a SR policy with list of two SIDs: - protected adjacency between R7 and R8 - Node SID of the specific "other" adjacency of R8. If all these sessions fail, R7 can reliably consider R8 as failed. I am not sure this would be much better than multi-hop IP BFD, and it look= s much more complicated to me. What do you think? Get Outlook for Android ________________________________ From: Alexander Vainshtein > Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2019, 13:15 To: Robert Raszuk; Shraddha Hegde Cc: spring@ietf.org; rtgwg@ietf.org; rtg-bfd@ietf.org Subject: Re: [spring] Draft for Node protection of intermediate nodes in S= R Paths Robert, Lots of thanks for a prompt response. I respectfully disagree with your statement that BFD implementation is us= ually offloaded to the HW of the ingress line card. I do not think this c= an wor for MH BFD sessions because the ingress and egress line cards are n= ot known in advance and change with the routing changes A good multi-hop BFD implementation=20should be ready to overcome this.. = There are many ways to achieve that. A naive implementation that runs in S= W of the control card is also possible of course. And they would sensd and= receive packets My 2c. Get Outlook for Android ________________________________ From: Robert Raszuk > Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2019, 12:37 To: Alexander Vainshtein; Shraddha Hegde Cc: spring@ietf.org; rtgwg@ietf.org; rtg-bfd@ietf.org Subject: Re: [spring] Draft for Node protection of intermediate nodes in S= R Paths Hi Sasha, On the surface your suggestion may look cool - but if you zoom in - I do n= ot think it will work in practice. See - one of the biggest value of BFD is its offload to line card's hardwa= re. And in most cases it is ingress line card to the box. So if you instru= ct such hardware to respond to SID address loopback you still did not gain= much in terms of detection router's fabric failures, remote LC failure or= control plane issues which could soon result in box failure. The catalogu= e of router failures is of course much more colorful. If you ask BFD to be responded by RP/RE it no longer has the BFD advantage= . IMHO the best way to detect node failure is actually to send the probes *a= cross* the node under test to its peers. The way I would think of establishing such m-hop sessions would be fully a= utomated with one knob per IGP adj. ex: "bfd detect-node-failure [max N]" = where local BFD subsystem would create N sessions to IGP peers of the node= we are to protect. LSDB has those peers so no new protocol extension is n= eeded, perhaps even no new IETF draft is required :). N would be the limit= of such sessions in case the node under protection has say 10s of peers. = Default could be perhaps even 1. Thx, Robert. On Sat, Nov 23, 2019 at 10:00 AM Alexander Vainshtein > wrote: Shraddha, Robert and all, Regarding Robert's question: I wonder if multi-hop IP BFD session with addresses used as /32 (or /128) = prefixes serving as Nose SIDs of R8 and R7 respectively could be used as s= uch a trigger by R7? Such a session would not respond to link failures, an= d I find it problematic to imagine a scenario when it would be kept UP in = the case of a real node failure. Of course such a session would have to be slow enough not to react to link= failures. But it still couks be much faster than IGP conversion IMHO. My 2c, Sasha Such Get Outlook for Android ________________________________ From: spring > on = behalf of Robert Raszuk > Sent: Friday, November 22, 2019, 11:22 To: Shraddha Hegde Cc: spring@ietf.org; rtgwg@ietf.org Subject: Re: [spring] Draft for Node protection of intermediate nodes in S= R Paths Hi Shraddha, I have one question to the document. As you know the critical element for the effective protection of any schem= e is the failure detection. On that your draft seems to have just one litt= le paragraph: Note that R7 activates the node-protecting backup path when it detects that the link to R8 has failed. R7 does not know that node R8 has actually failed. However, the node-protecting backup path is computed assuming that the failure of the link to R8 implies that R8 has failed. Well IMO this is not enough. Specifically there can be a lot of types of n= ode failure when link is still up. Moreover there can be even running BFD = across the link just fine when say fabric failure occurs at R8. While this is not solely issue with this draft, it is our common IETF fail= ure to provide correct means of detecting end to end path or fragments of = path failures (I am specifically not calling them segment here :). For example I propose that to effectively detect R8 failure as node failur= e which is the topic of your proposal a mechanism is clearly defined and i= ncludes bi-dir data plane probes send between R7-R9, R3-R7, R4-R7, R4-R9, = R3-R9 Many thx, Robert. On Fri, Nov 22, 2019 at 4:38 AM Shraddha Hegde > wrote: WG, This is the draft I pointed out that talks about solutions for providing n= ode-protection. It covers Anycast case as well as keeping forwarding plane longer. https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hegde-spring-node-protection-for-sr-te-p= aths-05 Review and comments solicited. Rgds Shraddha _______________________________________________ rtgwg mailing list rtgwg@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtgwg __________________________________________________________________________= _ This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains inform= ation which is CONFIDENTIAL and which may be proprietary to ECI Telecom. 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Shraddha,
Lots of thanks for athe tesponse.

I probably did not express myself clearly enough. I will try to fix thst n= ow, and I apologise in advance for a long email.

I have not been speaking about end-yo-end protecyion, only about local pro= tection against failure of an intermediate (a.k.a. pinned) node of an SR p= ath and, specifically, triggers for such protection. This context has been= actually defined by Robert in his original comment.

To the best of my understanding, Robert's concern was that failure of the = link beteeen the pinned node of a SR path and its adjacency (the penultima= te node of the Segment represented by the Node SID of the pinned node) is = not a good enough indication of the pinned node failure. 

I agree with this statement even if my understanding of a good indication = differs from Robert's:
- I think that it is not sufficiently specific and therefore could result = in flapping (local node protection activated and then released)
-Robert's concern, to the best of my understanding, was that it could miss= some failures (e.g. the Fabric failure).

Therefore I have suggested two possibilities for more specific and more rr= liabke detection of failure of the pinned node by its adjacency:

1. Run a multi-hop IP BFD session between the peniltimate node ans the pin= ned ones using prefixes acting as Node SIDs of this pair.  This wiuld= ignore link failures but locally detect such node failurs as power-down o= r crash.

2.  Run S-BFD sessions to all other adjacencies of the pinned node us= ing in each case a list of two SIDs: the protected Adj-SID to the pinned n= ode followed by tge Node SID of the other adjacency, ans declare pinned no= de failure when all these sessions fail. This would again ignore failure of the link between the penultimate node = and the pinned node but detect various real failures of the pinned node, e= .g. failure of its Fabric.

In any case I think that it woyld make sense to separate the protection sc= heme proposed in the draft from specific triggers for its activation simil= ar to how this has been done in MPLS Egress Protection Framework draft.

My 2c.






From: Shraddha Hegde <shradd= ha@juniper.net>
Sent: Monday, December 2, 2019, 06:10
To: Alexander Vainshtein; Robert Raszuk
Cc: spring@ietf.org; rtgwg@ietf.org; rtg-bfd@ietf.org
= Subject: RE: [spring] Draft for Node protection of interm= ediate nodes in SR Paths

Robert/Sasha,

 

 

S-BFD based mechanism is  head-end triggered p= rotection. It is not a local protection.

S-BFD mechanism is orthogonal to the mechanism desc= ribed in this draft and an operator can

choose what kind of protection makes more sense to = his/her network.

 

In many cases, node-protecting backup path will be = different from link-protecting/SRLG protecting backup path.

If you really want to use link-protecting backup pa= th when link fails and node protecting backup path when node fails,

You will have to download both link protecting and = node-protecting backup paths in FIB and detect which

failure really happened and have the ability in har= dware to use appropriate backup path. None of these

is in the scope of this document.

 

Rgds

Shraddha

 

 

From: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vai= nshtein@ecitele.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2019 8:15 PM
To: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>; Shraddha Hegde <shr= addha@juniper.net>
Cc: spring@ietf.org; rtgwg@ietf.org; rtg-bfd@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [spring] Draft for Node protection of intermediate nod= es in SR Paths

 

Robert,

On the second thought, for the purpose of this draft (i.= e. in the scope of SR) it is possible to implement your suggestion by runn= ing S-BFD sessions between R7 (as the initiator) and each other adjacency of R8  (acting as Reflectors) of a SR polic= y with list of two SIDs:

- protected adjacency between R7 and R8

- Node SID of the specific "other" adjacency&n= bsp; of R8.

 

If all these sessions fail, R7 can reliably consider R8 = as failed. 

 

I am not sure this would be much better than multi-hop I= P BFD, and it looks much more complicated to me. 

 

 

What do you think?

 

 

 

 

From: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexand= er.Vainshtein@ecitele.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2019, 13:15
To: Robert Raszuk; Shraddha Hegde
Cc: = spring@ietf.org; rtgwg@ietf.org; rtg-bfd@ietf= .org
Subject= : Re: [spring] Draft for Node protection of intermediate n= odes in SR Paths



Robert,

Lots of thanks for a prompt response.

 

I respectfully disagree with your statement that BFD imp= lementation  is usually offloaded to the HW of the ingress line card.=   I do not think this can wor for MH BFD sessions because the ingress and egress line cards are not known in advance and ch= ange with the routing changes

A good  multi-hop BFD implementation should be read= y to overcome this.. There are many ways to achieve that. A naive implemen= tation that runs in SW of the control card is also possible of course. And they would sensd and receive packets 

 

My 2c.

 

From: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
= Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2019, 12:37
To: Alexander Vainshtein; Shraddha Hegde
Cc: = spring@ietf.org; rtgwg@ietf.org; rtg-bfd@ietf= .org
Subject= : Re: [spring] Draft for Node protection of intermediate n= odes in SR Paths



Hi Sasha,

 

On the surface your suggestion may look cool - but = if you zoom in - I do not think it will work in practice. 

 

See - one of the biggest value of BFD is its offloa= d to line card's hardware. And in most cases it is ingress line card to th= e box. So if you instruct such hardware to respond to SID address loopback= you still did not gain much in terms of detection router's fabric failures, remote LC failure or control = plane issues which could soon result in box failure. The catalogue of rout= er failures is of course much more colorful. 

 

If you ask BFD to be responded by RP/RE it no longe= r has the BFD advantage. 

 

IMHO the best way to detect node failure is ac= tually to send the probes *across* the node under test to its peers. =

 

The way I would think of establishing such m-hop se= ssions would be fully automated with one knob per IGP adj. ex: "bfd d= etect-node-failure [max N]" where local BFD subsystem would create N = sessions to IGP peers of the node we are to protect. LSDB has those peers so no new protocol extension is needed, perhaps= even no new IETF draft is required :). N would be the limit of such sessi= ons in case the node under protection has say 10s of peers. Default could = be perhaps even 1. 

 

Thx,

Robert.

 

 

On Sat, Nov 23, 2019 at 10:00 AM Alexander Vainshte= in <Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com> wrot= e:

Shraddha, Robert and all,

Regarding Robert's question: 

I wonder if multi-hop IP BFD session with addresses used= as /32 (or /128) prefixes serving as Nose SIDs of R8 and R7 respectively = could be used as such a trigger by R7? Such a session would not respond to link failures, and I find it problematic t= o imagine a scenario when it would be kept UP in the case of a real node f= ailure.

 

Of course such a session would have to be slow enough no= t to react to link failures. But it still couks be much faster than IGP co= nversion IMHO.

 

My 2c,

Sasha

 

Such

 

 

Get Outlook for Android

 

From: spring <spring-bounc= es@ietf.org> on behalf of Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.ne= t>
Sent: Friday, November 22, 2019, 11:22
To: Shraddha Hegde
Cc: spring@ietf.org; rtgwg@ietf.org
Subject= : Re: [spring] Draft for Node protection of intermediate n= odes in SR Paths

 

Hi Shraddha,

 

I have one question to the document. 

 

As you know the critical element for the effec= tive protection of any scheme is the failure detection. On that your draft= seems to have just one little paragraph: 

 

  =
; Note that R7 activates the node-protecting backup path when it

   detects that the link to R=
8 has failed.  R7 does not know that node


   R8 has actually failed.&nb=
sp; However, the node-protecting backup path is


   computed=20assuming that t=
he failure of the link to R8 implies that R8


   has failed.

 

Well IMO this is not enough. Specifically ther= e can be a lot of types of node failure when link is still up. Moreover th= ere can be even running BFD across the link just fine when say fabric fail= ure occurs at R8. 

 

While this is not solely issue with this draft, it = is our common IETF failure to provide correct means of detecting end to en= d path or fragments of path failures (I am specifically not calling them s= egment here :). 

 

For example I propose that to effectively detect R8= failure as node failure which is the topic of your proposal a mechanism i= s clearly defined and includes bi-dir data plane probes send between R7-R9= , R3-R7, R4-R7, R4-R9, R3-R9

 

Many thx,

Robert.

 

 

On Fri, Nov 22, 2019 at 4:38 AM Shraddha Hegde <= shraddha=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf..org> wrote:<= /p>

WG,

 

This is the draft I pointed out that talks about so= lutions for providing node-protection.

It covers Anycast case as well as keeping forwardin= g plane longer.

 

Review and comments solicited.

 

Rgds

Shraddha

 

_______________________________________________
= rtgwg mailing list
rtgwg@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtgwg

 

 


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transmission in error, please inform us by e-mail, phone or fax, and then = delete the original
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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sasha, We are in agreement on separating the trigger from the protection mechanism= . > In any case I think that it woyld make sense to separate the protection s= cheme proposed in the draft from specific triggers for its activation >simi= lar to how this has been done in MPLS Egress Protection Framework draft. I'll add text in the next revision for this. Rgds Shraddha From: Alexander Vainshtein Sent: Monday, December 2, 2019 12:24 PM To: Shraddha Hegde Cc: spring@ietf.org; rtgwg@ietf.org; rtg-bfd@ietf.org; Robert Raszuk Subject: Re: [spring] Draft for Node protection of intermediate nodes in SR= Paths Shraddha, Lots of thanks for athe tesponse. I probably did not express myself clearly enough. I will try to fix thst no= w, and I apologise in advance for a long email. I have not been speaking about end-yo-end protecyion, only about local prot= ection against failure of an intermediate (a.k.a. pinned) node of an SR pat= h and, specifically, triggers for such protection. This context has been ac= tually defined by Robert in his original comment. To the best of my understanding, Robert's concern was that failure of the l= ink beteeen the pinned node of a SR path and its adjacency (the penultimate= node of the Segment represented by the Node SID of the pinned node) is not= a good enough indication of the pinned node failure. I agree with this statement even if my understanding of a good indication d= iffers from Robert's: - I think that it is not sufficiently specific and therefore could result i= n flapping (local node protection activated and then released) -Robert's concern, to the best of my understanding, was that it could miss = some failures (e.g. the Fabric failure). Therefore I have suggested two possibilities for more specific and more rrl= iabke detection of failure of the pinned node by its adjacency: 1. Run a multi-hop IP BFD session between the peniltimate node ans the pinn= ed ones using prefixes acting as Node SIDs of this pair. This wiuld ignore= link failures but locally detect such node failurs as power-down or crash. 2. Run S-BFD sessions to all other adjacencies of the pinned node using in= each case a list of two SIDs: the protected Adj-SID to the pinned node fol= lowed by tge Node SID of the other adjacency, ans declare pinned node failu= re when all these sessions fail. This would again ignore failure of the lin= k between the penultimate node and the pinned node but detect various real = failures of the pinned node, e.g. failure of its Fabric. In any case I think that it woyld make sense to separate the protection sch= eme proposed in the draft from specific triggers for its activation similar= to how this has been done in MPLS Egress Protection Framework draft. My 2c. Get Outlook for Android ________________________________ From: Shraddha Hegde > Sent: Monday, December 2, 2019, 06:10 To: Alexander Vainshtein; Robert Raszuk Cc: spring@ietf.org; rtgwg@ietf.org; rtg-bfd@ietf.org Subject: RE: [spring] Draft for Node protection of intermediate nodes in SR= Paths Robert/Sasha, S-BFD based mechanism is head-end triggered protection. It is not a local = protection. S-BFD mechanism is orthogonal to the mechanism described in this draft and = an operator can choose what kind of protection makes more sense to his/her network. In many cases, node-protecting backup path will be different from link-prot= ecting/SRLG protecting backup path. If you really want to use link-protecting backup path when link fails and n= ode protecting backup path when node fails, You will have to download both link protecting and node-protecting backup p= aths in FIB and detect which failure really happened and have the ability in hardware to use appropriate= backup path. None of these is in the scope of this document. Rgds Shraddha From: Alexander Vainshtein > Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2019 8:15 PM To: Robert Raszuk >; Shraddha H= egde > Cc: spring@ietf.org; rtgwg@ietf.org; rtg-bfd@ietf.org Subject: Re: [spring] Draft for Node protection of intermediate nodes in SR= Paths Robert, On the second thought, for the purpose of this draft (i.e. in the scope of = SR) it is possible to implement your suggestion by running S-BFD sessions b= etween R7 (as the initiator) and each other adjacency of R8 (acting as Ref= lectors) of a SR policy with list of two SIDs: - protected adjacency between R7 and R8 - Node SID of the specific "other" adjacency of R8. If all these sessions fail, R7 can reliably consider R8 as failed. I am not sure this would be much better than multi-hop IP BFD, and it looks= much more complicated to me. What do you think? Get Outlook for Android ________________________________ From: Alexander Vainshtein > Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2019, 13:15 To: Robert Raszuk; Shraddha Hegde Cc: spring@ietf.org; rtgwg@ietf.org; rtg-bfd@ietf.org Subject: Re: [spring] Draft for Node protection of intermediate nodes in SR= Paths Robert, Lots of thanks for a prompt response. I respectfully disagree with your statement that BFD implementation is usu= ally offloaded to the HW of the ingress line card. I do not think this can= wor for MH BFD sessions because the ingress and egress line cards are not = known in advance and change with the routing changes A good multi-hop BFD implementation should be ready to overcome this.. The= re are many ways to achieve that. A naive implementation that runs in SW of= the control card is also possible of course. And they would sensd and rece= ive packets My 2c. Get Outlook for Android ________________________________ From: Robert Raszuk > Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2019, 12:37 To: Alexander Vainshtein; Shraddha Hegde Cc: spring@ietf.org; rtgwg@ietf.org; rtg-bfd@ietf.org Subject: Re: [spring] Draft for Node protection of intermediate nodes in SR= Paths Hi Sasha, On the surface your suggestion may look cool - but if you zoom in - I do no= t think it will work in practice. See - one of the biggest value of BFD is its offload to line card's hardwar= e. And in most cases it is ingress line card to the box. So if you instruct= such hardware to respond to SID address loopback you still did not gain mu= ch in terms of detection router's fabric failures, remote LC failure or con= trol plane issues which could soon result in box failure. The catalogue of = router failures is of course much more colorful. If you ask BFD to be responded by RP/RE it no longer has the BFD advantage. IMHO the best way to detect node failure is actually to send the probes *ac= ross* the node under test to its peers. The way I would think of establishing such m-hop sessions would be fully au= tomated with one knob per IGP adj. ex: "bfd detect-node-failure [max N]" wh= ere local BFD subsystem would create N sessions to IGP peers of the node we= are to protect. LSDB has those peers so no new protocol extension is neede= d, perhaps even no new IETF draft is required :). N would be the limit of s= uch sessions in case the node under protection has say 10s of peers. Defaul= t could be perhaps even 1. Thx, Robert. On Sat, Nov 23, 2019 at 10:00 AM Alexander Vainshtein > wrote: Shraddha, Robert and all, Regarding Robert's question: I wonder if multi-hop IP BFD session with addresses used as /32 (or /128) p= refixes serving as Nose SIDs of R8 and R7 respectively could be used as suc= h a trigger by R7? Such a session would not respond to link failures, and I= find it problematic to imagine a scenario when it would be kept UP in the = case of a real node failure. Of course such a session would have to be slow enough not to react to link = failures. But it still couks be much faster than IGP conversion IMHO. My 2c, Sasha Such Get Outlook for Android ________________________________ From: spring > on b= ehalf of Robert Raszuk > Sent: Friday, November 22, 2019, 11:22 To: Shraddha Hegde Cc: spring@ietf.org; rtgwg@ietf.org Subject: Re: [spring] Draft for Node protection of intermediate nodes in SR= Paths Hi Shraddha, I have one question to the document. As you know the critical element for the effective protection of any scheme= is the failure detection. On that your draft seems to have just one little= paragraph: Note that R7 activates the node-protecting backup path when it detects that the link to R8 has failed. R7 does not know that node R8 has actually failed. However, the node-protecting backup path is computed assuming that the failure of the link to R8 implies that R8 has failed. Well IMO this is not enough. Specifically there can be a lot of types of no= de failure when link is still up. Moreover there can be even running BFD ac= ross the link just fine when say fabric failure occurs at R8. While this is not solely issue with this draft, it is our common IETF failu= re to provide correct means of detecting end to end path or fragments of pa= th failures (I am specifically not calling them segment here :). For example I propose that to effectively detect R8 failure as node failure= which is the topic of your proposal a mechanism is clearly defined and inc= ludes bi-dir data plane probes send between R7-R9, R3-R7, R4-R7, R4-R9, R3-= R9 Many thx, Robert. On Fri, Nov 22, 2019 at 4:38 AM Shraddha Hegde > wrote: WG, This is the draft I pointed out that talks about solutions for providing no= de-protection. It covers Anycast case as well as keeping forwarding plane longer. https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hegde-spring-node-protection-for-sr-te-pa= ths-05 Review and comments solicited. Rgds Shraddha _______________________________________________ rtgwg mailing list rtgwg@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtgwg ___________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains informa= tion which is CONFIDENTIAL and which may be proprietary to ECI Telecom. If you have recei= ved this transmission in error, please inform us by e-mail, phone or fax, and then d= elete the original and all copies thereof. ___________________________________________________________________________ ___________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains informa= tion which is CONFIDENTIAL and which may be proprietary to ECI Telecom. If you have recei= ved this transmission in error, please inform us by e-mail, phone or fax, and then d= elete the original and all copies thereof. ___________________________________________________________________________ --_000_BYAPR05MB394390FE9BEAC8D0CA71DECED5430BYAPR05MB3943namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Sasha,

 

We are in agreement on separating the trigger from t= he protection mechanism.

 

> In any case I think that it wo= yld make sense to separate the protection scheme proposed in the draft from= specific triggers for its activation >similar to how this has been done in MPLS Egress Protection Framework draft.<= /o:p>

 

I’ll add text in the next revision for this.

 

Rgds

Shraddha

 

 

From: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vain= shtein@ecitele.com>
Sent: Monday, December 2, 2019 12:24 PM
To: Shraddha Hegde <shraddha@juniper.net>
Cc: spring@ietf.org; rtgwg@ietf.org; rtg-bfd@ietf.org; Robert Raszuk= <robert@raszuk.net>
Subject: Re: [spring] Draft for Node protection of intermediate node= s in SR Paths

 

Shraddha,

Lots of thanks for athe tesponse.

 

I probably did not express myself clearly enough. I will try to fix th= st now, and I apologise in advance for a long email.

 

I have not been speaking about end-yo-end protecyion, only about local= protection against failure of an intermediate (a.k.a. pinned) node of an S= R path and, specifically, triggers for such protection. This context has been actually defined by Robert in his o= riginal comment.

 

To the best of my understanding, Robert's concern was that failure of = the link beteeen the pinned node of a SR path and its adjacency (the penult= imate node of the Segment represented by the Node SID of the pinned node) is not a good enough indication of the= pinned node failure. 

 

I agree with this statement even if my understanding of a good indicat= ion differs from Robert's:

- I think that it is not sufficiently specific and therefore could res= ult in flapping (local node protection activated and then released)

-Robert's concern, to the best of my understanding, was that it could = miss some failures (e.g. the Fabric failure).

 

Therefore I have suggested two possibilities for more specific and mor= e rrliabke detection of failure of the pinned node by its adjacency:

 

1. Run a multi-hop IP BFD session between the peniltimate node ans the= pinned ones using prefixes acting as Node SIDs of this pair.  This wi= uld ignore link failures but locally detect such node failurs as power-down or crash.

 

2.  Run S-BFD sessions to all other adjacencies of the pinned nod= e using in each case a list of two SIDs: the protected Adj-SID to the pinne= d node followed by tge Node SID of the other adjacency, ans declare pinned node failure when all these sessions fail. T= his would again ignore failure of the link between the penultimate node and= the pinned node but detect various real failures of the pinned node, e.g. = failure of its Fabric.

 

In any case I think that it woyld make sense to separate the protectio= n scheme proposed in the draft from specific triggers for its activation si= milar to how this has been done in MPLS Egress Protection Framework draft.

 

My 2c.

 

 

 

 

 

 

From: Shraddha Hegde <shraddha@juniper.net>
Sent: Monday, December 2, 2019, 06:10
To: Alexander Vainshtein; Robert Raszuk
Cc: spring@ietf.org; rtgwg@ietf.org; = rtg-bfd@ietf.org
Subject:= RE: [spring] Draft for Node protection of intermediate nod= es in SR Paths



Robert/Sasha,

 

 

S-BFD based mechanism is  head-end triggered pr= otection. It is not a local protection.

S-BFD mechanism is orthogonal to the mechanism descr= ibed in this draft and an operator can

choose what kind of protection makes more sense to h= is/her network.

 

In many cases, node-protecting backup path will be d= ifferent from link-protecting/SRLG protecting backup path.

If you really want to use link-protecting backup pat= h when link fails and node protecting backup path when node fails,

You will have to download both link protecting and n= ode-protecting backup paths in FIB and detect which

failure really happened and have the ability in hard= ware to use appropriate backup path. None of these

is in the scope of this document.

 

Rgds

Shraddha

 

 

 

Robert,

On the second thought, for the purpose of this draft (i.e. in the scop= e of SR) it is possible to implement your suggestion by running S-BFD sessi= ons between R7 (as the initiator) and each other adjacency of R8  (acting as Reflectors) of a SR policy wit= h list of two SIDs:

- protected adjacency between R7 and R8

- Node SID of the specific "other" adjacency  of R8.

 

If all these sessions fail, R7 can reliably consider R8 as failed.&nbs= p;

 

I am not sure this would be much better than multi-hop IP BFD, and it = looks much more complicated to me. 

 

 

What do you think?

 

 

 

 

From: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com= >
Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2019, 13:15
To: Robert Raszuk; Shraddha Hegde
Cc: spring@ietf.org; rtgwg@ietf.org; = rtg-bfd@ietf.org
Subject:= Re: [spring] Draft for Node protection of intermediate nod= es in SR Paths

 

Robert,

Lots of thanks for a prompt response.

 

I respectfully disagree with your statement that BFD implementation&nb= sp; is usually offloaded to the HW of the ingress line card.  I do not= think this can wor for MH BFD sessions because the ingress and egress line cards are not known in advance and change with= the routing changes

A good  multi-hop BFD implementation should be ready to overcome = this.. There are many ways to achieve that. A naive implementation that run= s in SW of the control card is also possible of course. And they would sensd and receive packets 

 

My 2c.

 

From: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2019, 12:37
To: Alexander Vainshtein; Shraddha Hegde
Cc: spring@ietf.org; rtgwg@ietf.org; = rtg-bfd@ietf.org
Subject:= Re: [spring] Draft for Node protection of intermediate nod= es in SR Paths

 

Hi Sasha,

 

On the surface your suggestion may look cool - but i= f you zoom in - I do not think it will work in practice. 

 

See - one of the biggest value of BFD is its offload= to line card's hardware. And in most cases it is ingress line card to the = box. So if you instruct such hardware to respond to SID address loopback yo= u still did not gain much in terms of detection router's fabric failures, remote LC failure or control p= lane issues which could soon result in box failure. The catalogue of router= failures is of course much more colorful. 

 

If you ask BFD to be responded by RP/RE it no longer= has the BFD advantage. 

 

IMHO the best way to detect node failure is act= ually to send the probes *across* the node under test to its peers. 

 

The way I would think of establishing such m-hop ses= sions would be fully automated with one knob per IGP adj. ex: "bfd det= ect-node-failure [max N]" where local BFD subsystem would create N ses= sions to IGP peers of the node we are to protect. LSDB has those peers so no new protocol extension is needed, perhaps = even no new IETF draft is required :). N would be the limit of such session= s in case the node under protection has say 10s of peers. Default could be = perhaps even 1. 

 

Thx,

Robert.

 

 

On Sat, Nov 23, 2019 at 10:00 AM Alexander Vainshtei= n <Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com> wrote:

Shraddha, Robert and all,

Regarding Robert's question: 

I wonder if multi-hop IP BFD session with addresses used as /32 (or /1= 28) prefixes serving as Nose SIDs of R8 and R7 respectively could be used a= s such a trigger by R7? Such a session would not respond to link failures, and I find it problematic to imagine a= scenario when it would be kept UP in the case of a real node failure.

 

Of course such a session would have to be slow enough not to react to = link failures. But it still couks be much faster than IGP conversion IMHO.<= /span>

 

My 2c,

Sasha

 

Such

 

 

Get Outlook for Android

 

From: spring <spring-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf= of Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Sent: Friday, November 22, 2019, 11:22
To: Shraddha Hegde
Cc: spring@ietf.org; rt= gwg@ietf.org
Subject:= Re: [spring] Draft for Node protection of intermediate nod= es in SR Paths

 

Hi Shraddha,

 

I have one question to the document. 

 

As you know the critical element for the effect= ive protection of any scheme is the failure detection. On that your draft s= eems to have just one little paragraph: 

 

   N=
ote that R7 activates the node-protecting backup path when it
   detects that the link to R8 h=
as failed.  R7 does not know that node
   R8 has actually failed. =
 However, the node-protecting backup path is
   computed assuming that the fa=
ilure of the link to R8 implies that R8
   has failed.=

 

Well IMO this is not enough. Specifically there= can be a lot of types of node failure when link is still up. Moreover ther= e can be even running BFD across the link just fine when say fabric failure= occurs at R8. 

 

While this is not solely issue with this draft, it i= s our common IETF failure to provide correct means of detecting end to end = path or fragments of path failures (I am specifically not calling them segm= ent here :). 

 

For example I propose that to effectively detect R8 = failure as node failure which is the topic of your proposal a mechanism is = clearly defined and includes bi-dir data plane probes send between R7-R9, R= 3-R7, R4-R7, R4-R9, R3-R9

 

Many thx,

Robert.

 

 

On Fri, Nov 22, 2019 at 4:38 AM Shraddha Hegde <s= hraddha=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf..org> wrote:

WG,

 

This is the draft I pointed out that talks about sol= utions for providing node-protection.

It covers Anycast case as well as keeping forwarding= plane longer.

 

Review and comments solicited.

 

Rgds

Shraddha

 

_______________________________________________
rtgwg mailing list
rtgwg@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailm= an/listinfo/rtgwg

 

 


___________________________________________________________________________=

This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains informa= tion which is
CONFIDENTIAL and which may be proprietary to ECI Telecom. If you have recei= ved this
transmission in error, please inform us by e-mail, phone or fax, and then d= elete the original
and all copies thereof.
___________________________________________________________________________=

 


___________________________________________________________________________=

This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains informa= tion which is
CONFIDENTIAL and which may be proprietary to ECI Telecom. If you have recei= ved this
transmission in error, please inform us by e-mail, phone or fax, and then d= elete the original
and all copies thereof.
___________________________________________________________________________=

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rDMREBCDguEv25P6jQSBwmifarPhIfphl0zGH3IsVGsC4zrOjztqJjNGQ+STBCQRVBIV2Wwe9/ayj3D/PK9dVwCqwY+46C1PJhlRdokU1nrpbuavltv7ObzKEfxcNIYthfT6KSSqzEGPcl1F0xINh+U8OZaSTZlHufj5ydzmCTtCfh1P0pcrROEAQHblTUAAUpkfmLKvj5YXWhXMQd2Va6f+ASTRVTyBNTqkGiGMSWXoAFN6OaTDTlBkWykx6lKLC5VKzELyi88cvodQ3UFJQBQCwZrEOT/Sxu/XhYo9vIVWRUu4RAQESmsaoF17w4FN1s6T6OEi8uALeSwEMhin7lnXLebKS81pIirCEtTj3sGI4hc6mUc9fSisKLA4W1r347Y3ZxEQwxwqhIJMprrDyw59ZfpM+IGc54S+h41+tnjwCOeslA38RghGdvkv6cgqguj29VJEgG1wpqhMHXyfSi5CGTLWyAm+1VJSDdqxeWA= x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: liquidtelecom.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: d478d44b-373a-4b5e-6349-08d77709ebfc X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 02 Dec 2019 09:27:59.2892 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 68792612-0f0e-46cb-b16a-fcb82fd80cb1 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: TvYQ6vkStuKN80Ufn736D1b+UmXPz/NHdFemRpFEytvKa8w6mrYm5Zg8t431LIFuE2TQ41Py3f7GOeluMERlqsEdmfVqkSq2UEptsM7hKjA= X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DBBPR03MB5239 X-MC-Unique: 8nMp0OxnN7Sz05bV-CW3rw-1 X-Mimecast-Spam-Score: 0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_DBBPR03MB5415486F24D2C9B6338611BEEE430DBBPR03MB5415eurp_" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Draft for Node protection of intermediate nodes in SR Paths X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2019 09:28:13 -0000 --_000_DBBPR03MB5415486F24D2C9B6338611BEEE430DBBPR03MB5415eurp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Currently the biggest issue that I see with S-BFD based protection - which = is something we use in production is as follows: Unless I'm mistaken - there is absolutely no way to tie S-BFD based protect= ion with BGP injected SR-TE pathing Node validation as defined in the SR-TE drafts is limited to presence in th= e IGP Since SR-TE path injection may be done through reflectors - using target co= mmunities - the point of communication into the network is not necessarily = the head end of the tunnel and the point of injection may be entirely unawa= re of the implications of the path that's being inserted. By utilizing what is contained in this draft to build context tables at the= head end of an inserted tunnel on an automated basis - this solves a probl= em that currently exists that S-BFD simply cannot solve without modificatio= n to the srte policy insertion drafts that would allow for automated buildi= ng of S-BFD checks - which in and of itself could prove challenging conside= ring the complexity of this. That is not to say in any way that both s-bfd and potentially other mechani= sms do not have use cases - but as an operator - this draft would certainly= provide a better mechanism for constant path validation than anything we c= urrently have (which is based on steered packets that leave the controller = and return to the controller through the use of SR packets and binding sids= ). Just my 2c Thanks Andrew From: spring On Behalf Of Shraddha Hegde Sent: Monday, 2 December 2019 10:24 To: Alexander Vainshtein Cc: spring@ietf.org; rtg-bfd@ietf.org; Robert Raszuk ; r= tgwg@ietf.org Subject: Re: [spring] Draft for Node protection of intermediate nodes in SR= Paths Sasha, We are in agreement on separating the trigger from the protection mechanism= . > In any case I think that it woyld make sense to separate the protection s= cheme proposed in the draft from specific triggers for its activation >simi= lar to how this has been done in MPLS Egress Protection Framework draft. I'll add text in the next revision for this. Rgds Shraddha From: Alexander Vainshtein > Sent: Monday, December 2, 2019 12:24 PM To: Shraddha Hegde > Cc: spring@ietf.org; rtgwg@ietf.org; rtg-bfd@ietf.org; Robert Raszuk > Subject: Re: [spring] Draft for Node protection of intermediate nodes in SR= Paths Shraddha, Lots of thanks for athe tesponse. I probably did not express myself clearly enough. I will try to fix thst no= w, and I apologise in advance for a long email. I have not been speaking about end-yo-end protecyion, only about local prot= ection against failure of an intermediate (a.k.a. pinned) node of an SR pat= h and, specifically, triggers for such protection. This context has been ac= tually defined by Robert in his original comment. To the best of my understanding, Robert's concern was that failure of the l= ink beteeen the pinned node of a SR path and its adjacency (the penultimate= node of the Segment represented by the Node SID of the pinned node) is not= a good enough indication of the pinned node failure. I agree with this statement even if my understanding of a good indication d= iffers from Robert's: - I think that it is not sufficiently specific and therefore could result i= n flapping (local node protection activated and then released) -Robert's concern, to the best of my understanding, was that it could miss = some failures (e.g. the Fabric failure). Therefore I have suggested two possibilities for more specific and more rrl= iabke detection of failure of the pinned node by its adjacency: 1. Run a multi-hop IP BFD session between the peniltimate node ans the pinn= ed ones using prefixes acting as Node SIDs of this pair. This wiuld ignore= link failures but locally detect such node failurs as power-down or crash. 2. Run S-BFD sessions to all other adjacencies of the pinned node using in= each case a list of two SIDs: the protected Adj-SID to the pinned node fol= lowed by tge Node SID of the other adjacency, ans declare pinned node failu= re when all these sessions fail. This would again ignore failure of the lin= k between the penultimate node and the pinned node but detect various real = failures of the pinned node, e.g. failure of its Fabric. In any case I think that it woyld make sense to separate the protection sch= eme proposed in the draft from specific triggers for its activation similar= to how this has been done in MPLS Egress Protection Framework draft. My 2c. Get Outlook for Android ________________________________ From: Shraddha Hegde > Sent: Monday, December 2, 2019, 06:10 To: Alexander Vainshtein; Robert Raszuk Cc: spring@ietf.org; rtgwg@ietf.org; rtg-bfd@ietf.org Subject: RE: [spring] Draft for Node protection of intermediate nodes in SR= Paths Robert/Sasha, S-BFD based mechanism is head-end triggered protection. It is not a local = protection. S-BFD mechanism is orthogonal to the mechanism described in this draft and = an operator can choose what kind of protection makes more sense to his/her network. In many cases, node-protecting backup path will be different from link-prot= ecting/SRLG protecting backup path. If you really want to use link-protecting backup path when link fails and n= ode protecting backup path when node fails, You will have to download both link protecting and node-protecting backup p= aths in FIB and detect which failure really happened and have the ability in hardware to use appropriate= backup path. None of these is in the scope of this document. Rgds Shraddha From: Alexander Vainshtein > Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2019 8:15 PM To: Robert Raszuk >; Shraddha H= egde > Cc: spring@ietf.org; rtgwg@ietf.org; rtg-bfd@ietf.org Subject: Re: [spring] Draft for Node protection of intermediate nodes in SR= Paths Robert, On the second thought, for the purpose of this draft (i.e. in the scope of = SR) it is possible to implement your suggestion by running S-BFD sessions b= etween R7 (as the initiator) and each other adjacency of R8 (acting as Ref= lectors) of a SR policy with list of two SIDs: - protected adjacency between R7 and R8 - Node SID of the specific "other" adjacency of R8. If all these sessions fail, R7 can reliably consider R8 as failed. I am not sure this would be much better than multi-hop IP BFD, and it looks= much more complicated to me. What do you think? Get Outlook for Android ________________________________ From: Alexander Vainshtein > Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2019, 13:15 To: Robert Raszuk; Shraddha Hegde Cc: spring@ietf.org; rtgwg@ietf.org; rtg-bfd@ietf.org Subject: Re: [spring] Draft for Node protection of intermediate nodes in SR= Paths Robert, Lots of thanks for a prompt response. I respectfully disagree with your statement that BFD implementation is usu= ally offloaded to the HW of the ingress line card. I do not think this can= wor for MH BFD sessions because the ingress and egress line cards are not = known in advance and change with the routing changes A good multi-hop BFD implementation should be ready to overcome this.. The= re are many ways to achieve that. A naive implementation that runs in SW of= the control card is also possible of course. And they would sensd and rece= ive packets My 2c. Get Outlook for Android ________________________________ From: Robert Raszuk > Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2019, 12:37 To: Alexander Vainshtein; Shraddha Hegde Cc: spring@ietf.org; rtgwg@ietf.org; rtg-bfd@ietf.org Subject: Re: [spring] Draft for Node protection of intermediate nodes in SR= Paths Hi Sasha, On the surface your suggestion may look cool - but if you zoom in - I do no= t think it will work in practice. See - one of the biggest value of BFD is its offload to line card's hardwar= e. And in most cases it is ingress line card to the box. So if you instruct= such hardware to respond to SID address loopback you still did not gain mu= ch in terms of detection router's fabric failures, remote LC failure or con= trol plane issues which could soon result in box failure. The catalogue of = router failures is of course much more colorful. If you ask BFD to be responded by RP/RE it no longer has the BFD advantage. IMHO the best way to detect node failure is actually to send the probes *ac= ross* the node under test to its peers. The way I would think of establishing such m-hop sessions would be fully au= tomated with one knob per IGP adj. ex: "bfd detect-node-failure [max N]" wh= ere local BFD subsystem would create N sessions to IGP peers of the node we= are to protect. LSDB has those peers so no new protocol extension is neede= d, perhaps even no new IETF draft is required :). N would be the limit of s= uch sessions in case the node under protection has say 10s of peers. Defaul= t could be perhaps even 1. Thx, Robert. On Sat, Nov 23, 2019 at 10:00 AM Alexander Vainshtein > wrote: Shraddha, Robert and all, Regarding Robert's question: I wonder if multi-hop IP BFD session with addresses used as /32 (or /128) p= refixes serving as Nose SIDs of R8 and R7 respectively could be used as suc= h a trigger by R7? Such a session would not respond to link failures, and I= find it problematic to imagine a scenario when it would be kept UP in the = case of a real node failure. Of course such a session would have to be slow enough not to react to link = failures. But it still couks be much faster than IGP conversion IMHO. My 2c, Sasha Such Get Outlook for Android ________________________________ From: spring > on b= ehalf of Robert Raszuk > Sent: Friday, November 22, 2019, 11:22 To: Shraddha Hegde Cc: spring@ietf.org; rtgwg@ietf.org Subject: Re: [spring] Draft for Node protection of intermediate nodes in SR= Paths Hi Shraddha, I have one question to the document. As you know the critical element for the effective protection of any scheme= is the failure detection. On that your draft seems to have just one little= paragraph: Note that R7 activates the node-protecting backup path when it detects that the link to R8 has failed. R7 does not know that node R8 has actually failed. However, the node-protecting backup path is computed assuming that the failure of the link to R8 implies that R8 has failed. Well IMO this is not enough. Specifically there can be a lot of types of no= de failure when link is still up. Moreover there can be even running BFD ac= ross the link just fine when say fabric failure occurs at R8. While this is not solely issue with this draft, it is our common IETF failu= re to provide correct means of detecting end to end path or fragments of pa= th failures (I am specifically not calling them segment here :). For example I propose that to effectively detect R8 failure as node failure= which is the topic of your proposal a mechanism is clearly defined and inc= ludes bi-dir data plane probes send between R7-R9, R3-R7, R4-R7, R4-R9, R3-= R9 Many thx, Robert. On Fri, Nov 22, 2019 at 4:38 AM Shraddha Hegde > wrote: WG, This is the draft I pointed out that talks about solutions for providing no= de-protection. It covers Anycast case as well as keeping forwarding plane longer. https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hegde-spring-node-protection-for-sr-te-pa= ths-05 Review and comments solicited. Rgds Shraddha _______________________________________________ rtgwg mailing list rtgwg@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtgwg ___________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains informa= tion which is CONFIDENTIAL and which may be proprietary to ECI Telecom. If you have recei= ved this transmission in error, please inform us by e-mail, phone or fax, and then d= elete the original and all copies thereof. ___________________________________________________________________________ ___________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains informa= tion which is CONFIDENTIAL and which may be proprietary to ECI Telecom. If you have recei= ved this transmission in error, please inform us by e-mail, phone or fax, and then d= elete the original and all copies thereof. ___________________________________________________________________________ --_000_DBBPR03MB5415486F24D2C9B6338611BEEE430DBBPR03MB5415eurp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Currently the biggest issue that I see with S-BFD based protection &#= 8211; which is something we use in production is as follows:

 

Unless I’m mistaken – there is absolutely no way to tie S= -BFD based protection with BGP injected SR-TE pathing

Node validation as defined in the SR-TE drafts is limited to presence= in the IGP

Since SR-TE path injection may be done through reflectors – usi= ng target communities – the point of communication into the network i= s not necessarily the head end of the tunnel and the point of injection may be entirely unaware of the implications of the path= that’s being inserted.

 

By utilizing what is contained in this draft to build context tables = at the head end of an inserted tunnel on an automated basis – this so= lves a problem that currently exists that S-BFD simply cannot solve without modification to the srte policy insertion draf= ts that would allow for automated building of S-BFD checks – which in= and of itself could prove challenging considering the complexity of this.&= nbsp;

 

That is not to say in any way that both s-bfd and potentially other m= echanisms do not have use cases – but as an operator – this dra= ft would certainly provide a better mechanism for constant path validation than anything we currently have (which is based o= n steered packets that leave the controller and return to the controller th= rough the use of SR packets and binding sids).

 

Just my 2c

 

Thanks

 

Andrew

 

 

From: spring <spring-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Shraddha Hegde
Sent: Monday, 2 December 2019 10:24
To: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com> Cc: spring@ietf.org; rtg-bfd@ietf.org; Robert Raszuk <robert@rasz= uk.net>; rtgwg@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [spring] Draft for Node protection of intermediate node= s in SR Paths

 

Sasha,

 

We are in agreement on separati= ng the trigger from the protection mechanism.

 

> = In any case I think that it woyld make sense to separate the protection sch= eme proposed in the draft from specific triggers for its activation >similar to how this has been done in MPLS Egress Pr= otection Framework draft.

 

I’ll add text in the next revision for this.=

 

Rgds

Shraddha

 

 

From: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com>
Sent: Monday, December 2, 2019 12:24 PM
To: Shraddha Hegde <shrad= dha@juniper.net>
Cc: spring@ietf.org; rtgwg@ietf.org; rtg-bfd@ietf.org; Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net= >
Subject: Re: [spring] Draft for Node protection of intermediate node= s in SR Paths

 

Shraddha,

Lots of thanks for athe tesponse.

 

I probably did not express myself clearly enough. I wil= l try to fix thst now, and I apologise in advance for a long email.

 

I have not been speaking about end-yo-end protecyion, o= nly about local protection against failure of an intermediate (a.k.a. pinne= d) node of an SR path and, specifically, triggers for such protection. This context has been actually defined by Ro= bert in his original comment.

 

To the best of my understanding, Robert's concern was t= hat failure of the link beteeen the pinned node of a SR path and its adjace= ncy (the penultimate node of the Segment represented by the Node SID of the pinned node) is not a good enough indic= ation of the pinned node failure. 

 

I agree with this statement even if my understanding of= a good indication differs from Robert's:

- I think that it is not sufficiently specific and ther= efore could result in flapping (local node protection activated and then re= leased)

-Robert's concern, to the best of my understanding, was= that it could miss some failures (e.g. the Fabric failure).

 

Therefore I have suggested two possibilities for more s= pecific and more rrliabke detection of failure of the pinned node by its ad= jacency:

 

1. Run a multi-hop IP BFD session between the peniltima= te node ans the pinned ones using prefixes acting as Node SIDs of this pair= .  This wiuld ignore link failures but locally detect such node failurs as power-down or crash.

 

2.  Run S-BFD sessions to all other adjacencies of= the pinned node using in each case a list of two SIDs: the protected Adj-S= ID to the pinned node followed by tge Node SID of the other adjacency, ans declare pinned node failure when all these ses= sions fail. This would again ignore failure of the link between the penulti= mate node and the pinned node but detect various real failures of the pinne= d node, e.g. failure of its Fabric.

 

In any case I think that it woyld make sense to separat= e the protection scheme proposed in the draft from specific triggers for it= s activation similar to how this has been done in MPLS Egress Protection Framework draft.

 

My 2c.

 

 

 

 

 

 

From: Sh= raddha Hegde <shraddha@juniper.n= et>
Sent: Monday, December 2, 2019, 06:10
To: Alexander Vainshtein; Robert Raszuk
Cc: spring@ietf.org; rtgwg@ietf.org; = rtg-bfd@ietf.org
Subject:= RE: [spring] Draft for Node protection of intermediate nod= es in SR Paths

=  

Robert/Sasha,=

 

 

S-BFD based mechanism is  = head-end triggered protection. It is not a local protection.

S-BFD mechanism is orthogonal t= o the mechanism described in this draft and an operator can

choose what kind of protection = makes more sense to his/her network.

 

In many cases, node-protecting = backup path will be different from link-protecting/SRLG protecting backup p= ath.

If you really want to use link-= protecting backup path when link fails and node protecting backup path when= node fails,

You will have to download both = link protecting and node-protecting backup paths in FIB and detect which

failure really happened and hav= e the ability in hardware to use appropriate backup path. None of these

is in the scope of this documen= t.

 

Rgds

Shraddha

 

 

 

Robert,

On the second thought, for the purpose of this draft (i= .e. in the scope of SR) it is possible to implement your suggestion by runn= ing S-BFD sessions between R7 (as the initiator) and each other adjacency of R8  (acting as Reflectors) of a SR policy= with list of two SIDs:

- protected adjacency between R7 and R8

- Node SID of the specific "other" adjacency&= nbsp; of R8.

 

If all these sessions fail, R7 can reliably consider R8= as failed. 

 

I am not sure this would be much better than multi-hop = IP BFD, and it looks much more complicated to me. 

 

 

What do you think?

 

 

 

 

From: Al= exander Vainshtein <= Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2019, 13:15
To: Robert Raszuk; Shraddha Hegde
Cc: spring@ietf.org; rtgwg@ietf.org; = rtg-bfd@ietf.org
Subject:= Re: [spring] Draft for Node protection of intermediate nod= es in SR Paths

=  

Robert,

Lots of thanks for a prompt response.

 

I respectfully disagree with your statement that BFD im= plementation  is usually offloaded to the HW of the ingress line card.=   I do not think this can wor for MH BFD sessions because the ingress and egress line cards are not known in advance and cha= nge with the routing changes<= /p>

A good  multi-hop BFD implementation should be rea= dy to overcome this.. There are many ways to achieve that. A naive implemen= tation that runs in SW of the control card is also possible of course. And they would sensd and receive packets 

 

My 2c.

 

From: Ro= bert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net&= gt;
Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2019, 12:37
To: Alexander Vainshtein; Shraddha Hegde
Cc: spring@ietf.org; rtgwg@ietf.org; = rtg-bfd@ietf.org
Subject:= Re: [spring] Draft for Node protection of intermediate nod= es in SR Paths

=  

Hi Sasha,

 

On the surface your suggestion = may look cool - but if you zoom in - I do not think it will work in practic= e. 

 

See - one of the biggest value = of BFD is its offload to line card's hardware. And in most cases it is ingr= ess line card to the box. So if you instruct such hardware to respond to SI= D address loopback you still did not gain much in terms of detection router's fabric failures, remote LC failur= e or control plane issues which could soon result in box failure. The = catalogue of router failures is of course much more colorful. 

 

If you ask BFD to be responded = by RP/RE it no longer has the BFD advantage. 

 

IMHO the best way to detect nod= e failure is actually to send the probes *across* the node under test = to its peers. 

 

The way I would think of establ= ishing such m-hop sessions would be fully automated with one knob per IGP a= dj. ex: "bfd detect-node-failure [max N]" where local BFD subsyst= em would create N sessions to IGP peers of the node we are to protect. LSDB has those peers so no new protocol extension&= nbsp;is needed, perhaps even no new IETF draft is required :). N would be t= he limit of such sessions in case the node under protection has say 10s of = peers. Default could be perhaps even 1. 

 

Thx,

Robert.

 

 

On Sat, Nov 23, 2019 at 10:00 A= M Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com> wrote:<= /o:p>

Shraddha, Robert and all,

Regarding Robert's question: 

I wonder if multi-hop IP BFD session with addresses use= d as /32 (or /128) prefixes serving as Nose SIDs of R8 and R7 respectively = could be used as such a trigger by R7? Such a session would not respond to link failures, and I find it problematic to= imagine a scenario when it would be kept UP in the case of a real node fai= lure.

 

Of course such a session would have to be slow enough n= ot to react to link failures. But it still couks be much faster than IGP co= nversion IMHO.

 

My 2c,

Sasha

 

Such

 

 

Get Outlook for Android

 

From: sp= ring <sprin= g-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Sent: Friday, November 22, 2019, 11:22
To: Shraddha Hegde
Cc: spring@ietf.org; rt= gwg@ietf.org
Subject:= Re: [spring] Draft for Node protection of intermediate nod= es in SR Paths

 

Hi Shraddha,

 

I have one question to the docu= ment. 

 

As you know the critical elemen= t for the effective protection of any scheme is the failure detection.= On that your draft seems to have just one little paragraph: 

 

   Note that R7 activates the node-protecting backup path when i=
t
   detects that t=
he link to R8 has failed.  R7 does not know that node
   R8 has actuall=
y failed.  However, the node-protecting backup path is
   computed assum=
ing that the failure of the link to R8 implies that R8
   has failed.

 

Well IMO this is not enough. Sp= ecifically there can be a lot of types of node failure when link is st= ill up. Moreover there can be even running BFD across the link just fine wh= en say fabric failure occurs at R8. 

 

While this is not solely issue = with this draft, it is our common IETF failure to provide correct means of = detecting end to end path or fragments of path failures (I am specifically = not calling them segment here :). 

 

For example I propose that to e= ffectively detect R8 failure as node failure which is the topic of your pro= posal a mechanism is clearly defined and includes bi-dir data plane probes = send between R7-R9, R3-R7, R4-R7, R4-R9, R3-R9

 

Many thx,

Robert.

 

 

On Fri, Nov 22, 2019 at 4:38 AM= Shraddha Hegde <shraddha=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf..org> wrote:

WG,

 

This is the draft I pointed out= that talks about solutions for providing node-protection.

It covers Anycast case as well = as keeping forwarding plane longer.

 

Review and comments solicited.<= o:p>

 

Rgds

Shraddha

 

_______________________________= ________________
rtgwg mailing list
rtgwg@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailm= an/listinfo/rtgwg

 

 


___________________________________________________________________________=

This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains informa= tion which is
CONFIDENTIAL and which may be proprietary to ECI Telecom. If you have recei= ved this
transmission in error, please inform us by e-mail, phone or fax, and then d= elete the original
and all copies thereof.
___________________________________________________________________________=

 


___________________________________________________________________________=

This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains informa= tion which is
CONFIDENTIAL and which may be proprietary to ECI Telecom. If you have recei= ved this
transmission in error, please inform us by e-mail, phone or fax, and then d= elete the original
and all copies thereof.
___________________________________________________________________________=

--_000_DBBPR03MB5415486F24D2C9B6338611BEEE430DBBPR03MB5415eurp_-- From nobody Mon Dec 2 01:49:47 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D70BE1200E6 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2019 01:49:45 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.399 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.399 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTTPS_HTTP_MISMATCH=0.1, PDS_BTC_ID=0.499, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=raszuk.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8uh1OU2VUdUZ for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2019 01:49:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qk1-x729.google.com (mail-qk1-x729.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::729]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AA8E11200D7 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2019 01:49:42 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qk1-x729.google.com with SMTP id c124so27489065qkg.0 for ; Mon, 02 Dec 2019 01:49:42 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=raszuk.net; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=KxuiNkIBbzU+FuKfMCKC7PBN61R17o1iDCt6MpAlHqk=; b=TaYyzUxU9+Aa5Zm+ROijF2DokSSCjBZtB3vX0Hrv5hix3t51KHxDvfPIXUa9uWb6Wx d9pJKH/NnxLjBGlXobHEIkPP5pucxN7ds5sk3Jk4Rxudu5RXOb4oeevxcVI1vkfhKcV5 v5Trrl4brl4SBzdZAzhXKwEduJSaDLor+sfERx7qGAoASQPLFsm5bUJuWZCQB2GGQJKW NIP0MADuqd2/PBRcJBhvFG4VaPMUfsPYf7NoxpNcWExLbYlkzyoAru8nOfiY0CdSPH5a GjOwElS9LBIlWbu3O1rk37FF+4SiZnzAvrrupUUyZ/IOGcDPJNSbptfF7XKxDMWAzens Coqg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=KxuiNkIBbzU+FuKfMCKC7PBN61R17o1iDCt6MpAlHqk=; b=hxxRAiNaBSfntVqJ4yx+ERffHQz8uCwk7+LDDXH6hshz5RQ/sS0tH+eMHcKH+P6sK6 7PeIrZFEJqomqyqd6O2W2UL7Qk1boiXdRA+V+kaT0t+5UPmEuPArnaVliRoQ70bOJrBc Qub6cUgeoOdlWpm/IQ5YgHDP9uuItTzKuo/X92MVC4zf3104G495c2Qhy7KXn1jSXdu8 UPtTg9sBhGSRi8QNo3YLNWRaLDrXHa16WkFrdz6qR9vjOLfM2yYT4jB9wSKM7zCTWGY9 azk4X+gXyIJnS6oXcRxXw2XNMkQyUGr50IHENW1r9RS+DE0ZhDaGuxOdTYj3P6VNrI9F 63ug== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWrg/cwb1D/b91jC6QYBpGXtnKOxWy9hSf0FhIWD9NjWd3i6ALo qASHXEpZnh6vYm+r4zNVTJzOTcIXlJSGQTEjWMNYsA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzzbfE5EXm8V2dsDLxcBmP37fLQeSe8ZNFe2AAA/RUuo9ZEuqSPwyAOAvd+NBS30K77xJ3H9dB3TLpGN+KZ3p0= X-Received: by 2002:a37:62d2:: with SMTP id w201mr30470413qkb.445.1575280181381; Mon, 02 Dec 2019 01:49:41 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Robert Raszuk Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2019 10:49:31 +0100 Message-ID: To: Andrew Alston Cc: Shraddha Hegde , Alexander Vainshtein , "spring@ietf.org" , "rtg-bfd@ietf.org" , "rtgwg@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000a223b50598b57f1c" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Draft for Node protection of intermediate nodes in SR Paths X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2019 09:49:46 -0000 --000000000000a223b50598b57f1c Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Dec 2, 2019 at 10:28 AM Andrew Alston < Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com> wrote: Currently the biggest issue that I see with S-BFD based protection =E2=80= =93 which > is something we use in production is as follows: > > > > Unless I=E2=80=99m mistaken =E2=80=93 there is absolutely no way to tie S= -BFD based > protection with BGP injected SR-TE pathing > Well I am not sure what you call " BGP injected SR-TE pathing" but if you are looking for validation of BGP paths that has been supported by some vendors for a loooong time. Hint: you allocate different next hop for your SR-TE endpoints and voila. Btw - not an ietf topic, but an implementation request / vendor's feature. Besides, since you are talking about headend what you are describing is path protection ... this draft talks about node protection which is a completely different thing. Cheers, r. > Node validation as defined in the SR-TE drafts is limited to presence in > the IGP > > Since SR-TE path injection may be done through reflectors =E2=80=93 using= target > communities =E2=80=93 the point of communication into the network is not > necessarily the head end of the tunnel and the point of injection may be > entirely unaware of the implications of the path that=E2=80=99s being ins= erted. > > > > By utilizing what is contained in this draft to build context tables at > the head end of an inserted tunnel on an automated basis =E2=80=93 this s= olves a > problem that currently exists that S-BFD simply cannot solve without > modification to the srte policy insertion drafts that would allow for > automated building of S-BFD checks =E2=80=93 which in and of itself could= prove > challenging considering the complexity of this. > > > > That is not to say in any way that both s-bfd and potentially other > mechanisms do not have use cases =E2=80=93 but as an operator =E2=80=93 t= his draft would > certainly provide a better mechanism for constant path validation than > anything we currently have (which is based on steered packets that leave > the controller and return to the controller through the use of SR packets > and binding sids). > > > > Just my 2c > > > > Thanks > > > > Andrew > > > > > > *From:* spring *On Behalf Of *Shraddha Hegde > *Sent:* Monday, 2 December 2019 10:24 > *To:* Alexander Vainshtein > *Cc:* spring@ietf.org; rtg-bfd@ietf.org; Robert Raszuk ; > rtgwg@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: [spring] Draft for Node protection of intermediate nodes > in SR Paths > > > > Sasha, > > > > We are in agreement on separating the trigger from the protection > mechanism. > > > > > In any case I think that it woyld make sense to separate the protection > scheme proposed in the draft from specific triggers for its activation > >similar to how this has been done in MPLS Egress Protection Framework > draft. > > > > I=E2=80=99ll add text in the next revision for this. > > > > Rgds > > Shraddha > > > > > > *From:* Alexander Vainshtein > *Sent:* Monday, December 2, 2019 12:24 PM > *To:* Shraddha Hegde > *Cc:* spring@ietf.org; rtgwg@ietf.org; rtg-bfd@ietf.org; Robert Raszuk < > robert@raszuk.net> > *Subject:* Re: [spring] Draft for Node protection of intermediate nodes > in SR Paths > > > > Shraddha, > > Lots of thanks for athe tesponse. > > > > I probably did not express myself clearly enough. I will try to fix thst > now, and I apologise in advance for a long email. > > > > I have not been speaking about end-yo-end protecyion, only about local > protection against failure of an intermediate (a.k.a. pinned) node of an = SR > path and, specifically, triggers for such protection. This context has be= en > actually defined by Robert in his original comment. > > > > To the best of my understanding, Robert's concern was that failure of the > link beteeen the pinned node of a SR path and its adjacency (the > penultimate node of the Segment represented by the Node SID of the pinned > node) is not a good enough indication of the pinned node failure. > > > > I agree with this statement even if my understanding of a good indication > differs from Robert's: > > - I think that it is not sufficiently specific and therefore could result > in flapping (local node protection activated and then released) > > -Robert's concern, to the best of my understanding, was that it could mis= s > some failures (e.g. the Fabric failure). > > > > Therefore I have suggested two possibilities for more specific and more > rrliabke detection of failure of the pinned node by its adjacency: > > > > 1. Run a multi-hop IP BFD session between the peniltimate node ans the > pinned ones using prefixes acting as Node SIDs of this pair. This wiuld > ignore link failures but locally detect such node failurs as power-down o= r > crash. > > > > 2. Run S-BFD sessions to all other adjacencies of the pinned node using > in each case a list of two SIDs: the protected Adj-SID to the pinned node > followed by tge Node SID of the other adjacency, ans declare pinned node > failure when all these sessions fail. This would again ignore failure of > the link between the penultimate node and the pinned node but detect > various real failures of the pinned node, e.g. failure of its Fabric. > > > > In any case I think that it woyld make sense to separate the protection > scheme proposed in the draft from specific triggers for its activation > similar to how this has been done in MPLS Egress Protection Framework dra= ft. > > > > My 2c. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Get Outlook for Android > > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Shraddha Hegde > *Sent:* Monday, December 2, 2019, 06:10 > *To:* Alexander Vainshtein; Robert Raszuk > *Cc:* spring@ietf.org; rtgwg@ietf.org; rtg-bfd@ietf.org > *Subject:* RE: [spring] Draft for Node protection of intermediate nodes > in SR Paths > > > > Robert/Sasha, > > > > > > S-BFD based mechanism is head-end triggered protection. It is not a loca= l > protection. > > S-BFD mechanism is orthogonal to the mechanism described in this draft an= d > an operator can > > choose what kind of protection makes more sense to his/her network. > > > > In many cases, node-protecting backup path will be different from > link-protecting/SRLG protecting backup path. > > If you really want to use link-protecting backup path when link fails and > node protecting backup path when node fails, > > You will have to download both link protecting and node-protecting backup > paths in FIB and detect which > > failure really happened and have the ability in hardware to use > appropriate backup path. None of these > > is in the scope of this document. > > > > Rgds > > Shraddha > > > > > > *From:* Alexander Vainshtein > *Sent:* Saturday, November 23, 2019 8:15 PM > *To:* Robert Raszuk ; Shraddha Hegde < > shraddha@juniper.net> > *Cc:* spring@ietf.org; rtgwg@ietf.org; rtg-bfd@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: [spring] Draft for Node protection of intermediate nodes > in SR Paths > > > > Robert, > > On the second thought, for the purpose of this draft (i.e. in the scope o= f > SR) it is possible to implement your suggestion by running S-BFD sessions > between R7 (as the initiator) and each other adjacency of R8 (acting as > Reflectors) of a SR policy with list of two SIDs: > > - protected adjacency between R7 and R8 > > - Node SID of the specific "other" adjacency of R8. > > > > If all these sessions fail, R7 can reliably consider R8 as failed. > > > > I am not sure this would be much better than multi-hop IP BFD, and it > looks much more complicated to me. > > > > > > What do you think? > > > > > > > > > > Get Outlook for Android > > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Alexander Vainshtein > *Sent:* Saturday, November 23, 2019, 13:15 > *To:* Robert Raszuk; Shraddha Hegde > *Cc:* spring@ietf.org; rtgwg@ietf.org; rtg-bfd@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: [spring] Draft for Node protection of intermediate nodes > in SR Paths > > > > Robert, > > Lots of thanks for a prompt response. > > > > I respectfully disagree with your statement that BFD implementation is > usually offloaded to the HW of the ingress line card. I do not think thi= s > can wor for MH BFD sessions because the ingress and egress line cards are > not known in advance and change with the routing changes > > A good multi-hop BFD implementation should be ready to overcome this.. > There are many ways to achieve that. A naive implementation that runs in = SW > of the control card is also possible of course. And they would sensd and > receive packets > > > > My 2c. > > Get Outlook for Android > > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Robert Raszuk > *Sent:* Saturday, November 23, 2019, 12:37 > *To:* Alexander Vainshtein; Shraddha Hegde > *Cc:* spring@ietf.org; rtgwg@ietf.org; rtg-bfd@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: [spring] Draft for Node protection of intermediate nodes > in SR Paths > > > > Hi Sasha, > > > > On the surface your suggestion may look cool - but if you zoom in - I do > not think it will work in practice. > > > > See - one of the biggest value of BFD is its offload to line card's > hardware. And in most cases it is ingress line card to the box. So if you > instruct such hardware to respond to SID address loopback you still did n= ot > gain much in terms of detection router's fabric failures, remote LC failu= re > or control plane issues which could soon result in box failure. The > catalogue of router failures is of course much more colorful. > > > > If you ask BFD to be responded by RP/RE it no longer has the BFD > advantage. > > > > IMHO the best way to detect node failure is actually to send the probes > *across* the node under test to its peers. > > > > The way I would think of establishing such m-hop sessions would be fully > automated with one knob per IGP adj. ex: "bfd detect-node-failure [max N]= " > where local BFD subsystem would create N sessions to IGP peers of the nod= e > we are to protect. LSDB has those peers so no new protocol extension is > needed, perhaps even no new IETF draft is required :). N would be the lim= it > of such sessions in case the node under protection has say 10s of peers. > Default could be perhaps even 1. > > > > Thx, > > Robert. > > > > > > On Sat, Nov 23, 2019 at 10:00 AM Alexander Vainshtein < > Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com> wrote: > > Shraddha, Robert and all, > > Regarding Robert's question: > > I wonder if multi-hop IP BFD session with addresses used as /32 (or /128) > prefixes serving as Nose SIDs of R8 and R7 respectively could be used as > such a trigger by R7? Such a session would not respond to link failures, > and I find it problematic to imagine a scenario when it would be kept UP = in > the case of a real node failure. > > > > Of course such a session would have to be slow enough not to react to lin= k > failures. But it still couks be much faster than IGP conversion IMHO. > > > > My 2c, > > Sasha > > > > Such > > > > > > Get Outlook for Android > > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* spring on behalf of Robert Raszuk < > robert@raszuk.net> > *Sent:* Friday, November 22, 2019, 11:22 > *To:* Shraddha Hegde > *Cc:* spring@ietf.org; rtgwg@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: [spring] Draft for Node protection of intermediate nodes > in SR Paths > > > > Hi Shraddha, > > > > I have one question to the document. > > > > As you know the critical element for the effective protection of any > scheme is the failure detection. On that your draft seems to have just on= e > little paragraph: > > > > Note that R7 activates the node-protecting backup path when it > > detects that the link to R8 has failed. R7 does not know that node > > R8 has actually failed. However, the node-protecting backup path is > > computed assuming that the failure of the link to R8 implies that R8 > > has failed. > > > > Well IMO this is not enough. Specifically there can be a lot of types of > node failure when link is still up. Moreover there can be even running BF= D > across the link just fine when say fabric failure occurs at R8. > > > > While this is not solely issue with this draft, it is our common IETF > failure to provide correct means of detecting end to end path or fragment= s > of path failures (I am specifically not calling them segment here :). > > > > For example I propose that to effectively detect R8 failure as node > failure which is the topic of your proposal a mechanism is clearly define= d > and includes bi-dir data plane probes send between R7-R9, R3-R7, R4-R7, > R4-R9, R3-R9 > > > > Many thx, > > Robert. > > > > > > On Fri, Nov 22, 2019 at 4:38 AM Shraddha Hegde 40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf..org <40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>> wrote: > > WG, > > > > This is the draft I pointed out that talks about solutions for providing > node-protection. > > It covers Anycast case as well as keeping forwarding plane longer. > > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hegde-spring-node-protection-for-sr-te-= paths-05 > > > > > Review and comments solicited. > > > > Rgds > > Shraddha > > > > _______________________________________________ > rtgwg mailing list > rtgwg@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtgwg > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________________= __ > > This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains > information which is > CONFIDENTIAL and which may be proprietary to ECI Telecom. If you have > received this > transmission in error, please inform us by e-mail, phone or fax, and then > delete the original > and all copies thereof. > _________________________________________________________________________= __ > > > > > _________________________________________________________________________= __ > > This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains > information which is > CONFIDENTIAL and which may be proprietary to ECI Telecom. If you have > received this > transmission in error, please inform us by e-mail, phone or fax, and then > delete the original > and all copies thereof. > _________________________________________________________________________= __ > --000000000000a223b50598b57f1c Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Mon, Dec 2, 2019 at 10:28 AM Andrew Al= ston <Andrew.Alston@l= iquidtelecom.com> wrote:

Currently the biggest issue tha= t I see with S-BFD based protection =E2=80=93 which is something we use in = production is as follows:

=C2=A0

Unless I=E2=80=99m mistaken =E2= =80=93 there is absolutely no way to tie S-BFD based protection with BGP in= jected SR-TE pathing



Well I am not sure what you call " BGP injected SR-TE pathing" but if you are looking for validation of B= GP paths that has been supported by some vendors for a loooong time. Hint: = you allocate different next hop for your SR-TE endpoints and voila.=C2=A0

Btw - not an ietf topic, but an implementation requ= est / vendor's feature.=C2=A0

Besides, since y= ou are talking about headend what you are describing is path protection ...= this draft talks about node protection which is a completely different thi= ng.=C2=A0

Cheers,
r.

=C2=A0

Node validation as defined in t= he SR-TE drafts is limited to presence in the IGP

Since SR-TE path injection may = be done through reflectors =E2=80=93 using target communities =E2=80=93 the= point of communication into the network is not necessarily the head end of= the tunnel and the point of injection may be entirely unaware of the implications of the path= that=E2=80=99s being inserted.

=C2=A0

By utilizing what is contained = in this draft to build context tables at the head end of an inserted tunnel= on an automated basis =E2=80=93 this solves a problem that currently exist= s that S-BFD simply cannot solve without modification to the srte policy insertion draf= ts that would allow for automated building of S-BFD checks =E2=80=93 which = in and of itself could prove challenging considering the complexity of this= .=C2=A0

=C2=A0

That is not to say in any way t= hat both s-bfd and potentially other mechanisms do not have use cases =E2= =80=93 but as an operator =E2=80=93 this draft would certainly provide a be= tter mechanism for constant path validation than anything we currently have (which is based o= n steered packets that leave the controller and return to the controller th= rough the use of SR packets and binding sids).

=C2=A0

Just my 2c=

=C2=A0

Thanks

=C2=A0

Andrew

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

From: spring <spring-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Shraddha Hegde
Sent: Monday, 2 December 2019 10:24
To: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com>
Cc: spring@ietf= .org; rtg-bfd@iet= f.org; Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>; rtgwg@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [spring] Draft for Node protection of intermediate node= s in SR Paths

=C2=A0

Sasha,

=C2=A0

We are in agreement on separati= ng the trigger from the protection mechanism.

=C2=A0

> In any case I think that it woyld make sense to separate the protecti= on scheme proposed in the draft from specific triggers for its activation >similar to how this has been done in MPLS Egress Pr= otection Framework draft.

=C2=A0

I=E2=80=99ll add text in the next revision for th= is.

=C2=A0

Rgds

Shraddha

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

From: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com>
Sent: Monday, December 2, 2019 12:24 PM
To: Shraddha Hegde <shraddha@juniper.net>
Cc: spring@ietf= .org; rtgwg@ietf.org; r= tg-bfd@ietf.org; Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Subject: Re: [spring] Draft for Node protection of intermediate node= s in SR Paths

=C2=A0

Shraddha,

Lots of thanks for athe tesponse.

=C2=A0

I probably did not express myself clearly enough.= I will try to fix thst now, and I apologise in advance for a long email.

=C2=A0

I have not been speaking about end-yo-end protecy= ion, only about local protection against failure of an intermediate (a.k.a.= pinned) node of an SR path and, specifically, triggers for such protection. This context has been actually defined by Ro= bert in his original comment.

=C2=A0

To the best of my understanding, Robert's con= cern was that failure of the link beteeen the pinned node of a SR path and = its adjacency (the penultimate node of the Segment represented by the Node SID of the pinned node) is not a good enough indic= ation of the pinned node failure.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

I agree with this statement even if my understand= ing of a good indication differs from Robert's:

- I think that it is not sufficiently specific an= d therefore could result in flapping (local node protection activated and t= hen released)

-Robert's concern, to the best of my understa= nding, was that it could miss some failures (e.g. the Fabric failure).

=C2=A0

Therefore I have suggested two possibilities for = more specific and more rrliabke detection of failure of the pinned node by = its adjacency:

=C2=A0

1. Run a multi-hop IP BFD session between the pen= iltimate node ans the pinned ones using prefixes acting as Node SIDs of thi= s pair.=C2=A0 This wiuld ignore link failures but locally detect such node failurs as power-down or crash.

=C2=A0

2.=C2=A0 Run S-BFD sessions to all other adjacenc= ies of the pinned node using in each case a list of two SIDs: the protected= Adj-SID to the pinned node followed by tge Node SID of the other adjacency, ans declare pinned node failure when all these ses= sions fail. This would again ignore failure of the link between the penulti= mate node and the pinned node but detect various real failures of the pinne= d node, e.g. failure of its Fabric.

=C2=A0

In any case I think that it woyld make sense to s= eparate the protection scheme proposed in the draft from specific triggers = for its activation similar to how this has been done in MPLS Egress Protection Framework draft.

=C2=A0

My 2c.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Get Outlook for Android

=C2=A0

From: Shraddha Hegde= <shraddha@jun= iper.net>
Sent: Monday, December 2, 2019, 06:10
To: = Alexander Vainshtein; Robert Raszuk
Cc: = spring@ietf.org; rt= gwg@ietf.org; rtg-bfd@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [spring] Draft for Node protection of intermediate nodes in SR Pat= hs

=C2=A0

Robert/Sasha,

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

S-BFD based mechanism is =C2=A0= head-end triggered protection. It is not a local protection.<= /span>

S-BFD mechanism is orthogonal t= o the mechanism described in this draft and an operator can

choose what kind of protection = makes more sense to his/her network.

=C2=A0

In many cases, node-protecting = backup path will be different from link-protecting/SRLG protecting backup p= ath.

If you really want to use link-= protecting backup path when link fails and node protecting backup path when= node fails,

You will have to download both = link protecting and node-protecting backup paths in FIB and detect which=

failure really happened and hav= e the ability in hardware to use appropriate backup path. None of these<= /u>

is in the scope of this documen= t.

=C2=A0

Rgds

Shraddha

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

From: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2019 8:15 PM
To: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>; Shraddha Hegde <shraddha@juniper.net>
Cc: spring@ietf= .org; rtgwg@ietf.org; r= tg-bfd@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [spring] Draft for Node protection of intermediate node= s in SR Paths

=C2=A0

Robert,=

On the second thought, for the purpose of this dr= aft (i.e. in the scope of SR) it is possible to implement your suggestion b= y running S-BFD sessions between R7 (as the initiator) and each other adjacency of R8=C2=A0 (acting as Reflectors) of a SR policy= with list of two SIDs:

- protected adjacency between R7 and R8

- Node SID of the specific "other" adja= cency=C2=A0 of R8.

=C2=A0<= /span>

If all these sessions fail, R7 can reliably consi= der R8 as failed.=C2=A0

=C2=A0<= /span>

I am not sure this would be much better than mult= i-hop IP BFD, and it looks much more complicated to me.=C2=A0

=C2=A0<= /span>

=C2=A0<= /span>

What do you think?=

=C2=A0<= /span>

=C2=A0<= /span>

=C2=A0<= /span>

=C2=A0

Get Outlook for Android

=C2=A0

From: Alexander Vain= shtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2019, 13:15
To: = Robert Raszuk; Shraddha Hegde
Cc: = spring@ietf.org; rt= gwg@ietf.org; rtg-bfd@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [spring] Draft for Node protection of intermediate nodes in SR Pat= hs

=C2=A0

Robert,=

Lots of thanks for a prompt response.

=C2=A0<= /span>

I respectfully disagree with your statement that = BFD implementation=C2=A0 is usually offloaded to the HW of the ingress line= card.=C2=A0 I do not think this can wor for MH BFD sessions because the ingress and egress line cards are not known in advance and cha= nge with the routing changes

A good=C2=A0 multi-hop BFD implementation should = be ready to overcome this.. There are many ways to achieve that. A naive im= plementation that runs in SW of the control card is also possible of course. And they would sensd and receive packets=C2=A0

=C2=A0<= /span>

My 2c.<= /span>

Get Outlook for Android

=C2=A0

From: Robert Raszuk = <robert@raszuk.ne= t>
Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2019, 12:37
To: = Alexander Vainshtein; Shraddha Hegde
Cc: = spring@ietf.org; rt= gwg@ietf.org; rtg-bfd@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [spring] Draft for Node protection of intermediate nodes in SR Pat= hs

=C2=A0

Hi Sasha, =

=C2=A0

On the surface your suggestion = may look cool - but if you zoom in - I do not think it will work in practic= e.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

See - one of the biggest value = of BFD is its offload to line card's hardware. And in most cases it is = ingress line card to the box. So if you instruct such hardware to respond t= o SID address loopback you still did not gain much in terms of detection router's fabric failures, remote LC fa= ilure or control=C2=A0plane issues which could soon result in box failure. = The catalogue of router failures is of course much more colorful.=C2=A0<= /u>

=C2=A0

If you ask BFD to be responded = by RP/RE it no longer has the BFD advantage.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

IMHO the best way to detect nod= e failure=C2=A0is actually to send the probes *across* the node under test = to its peers.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

The way I would think of establ= ishing such m-hop sessions would be fully automated with one knob per IGP a= dj. ex: "bfd detect-node-failure [max N]" where local BFD subsyst= em would create N sessions to IGP peers of the node we are to protect. LSDB has those peers so no new protocol extension= =C2=A0is needed, perhaps even no new IETF draft is required :). N would be = the limit of such sessions in case the node under protection has say 10s of= peers. Default could be perhaps even 1.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Thx,

Robert.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

On Sat, Nov 23, 2019 at 10:00 A= M Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com> wrote:

Shraddha, Robert and all,

Regarding Robert's question:=C2=A0

I wonder if multi-hop IP BFD session with address= es used as /32 (or /128) prefixes serving as Nose SIDs of R8 and R7 respect= ively could be used as such a trigger by R7? Such a session would not respond to link failures, and I find it problematic to= imagine a scenario when it would be kept UP in the case of a real node fai= lure.

=C2=A0<= /span>

Of course such a session would have to be slow en= ough not to react to link failures. But it still couks be much faster than = IGP conversion IMHO.

=C2=A0<= /span>

My 2c,<= /span>

Sasha

=C2=A0<= /span>

Such

=C2=A0<= /span>

=C2=A0

Get Outlook for Android

=C2=A0

From: spring <spring-bounces@ie= tf.org> on behalf of Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Sent: Friday, November 22, 2019, 11:22
To: = Shraddha Hegde
Cc: = spring@ietf.org; rt= gwg@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [spring] Draft for Node protection of intermediate nodes in SR Pat= hs

=C2=A0

Hi=C2=A0Shraddha,

=C2=A0

I have one question to the docu= ment.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

As you know the critical elemen= t for=C2=A0the effective protection of any scheme is the failure detection.= On that your draft seems to have just one little paragraph:=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0=C2=A0 Note that R7 activates the node-protecting backup path when i=
t
=C2=A0=C2=A0 detects that t=
he link to R8 has failed.=C2=A0 R7 does not know that node
=C2=A0=C2=A0 R8 has actuall=
y failed.=C2=A0 However, the node-protecting backup path is
=C2=A0=C2=A0 computed assum=
ing that the failure of the link to R8 implies that R8
=C2=A0=C2=A0 has failed.

=C2=A0

Well IMO this is not enough. Sp= ecifically=C2=A0there can be a lot of types of node failure when link is st= ill up. Moreover there can be even running BFD across the link just fine wh= en say fabric failure occurs at R8.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

While this is not solely issue = with this draft, it is our common IETF failure to provide correct means of = detecting end to end path or fragments of path failures (I am specifically = not calling them segment here :).=C2=A0

=C2=A0

For example I propose that to e= ffectively detect R8 failure as node failure which is the topic of your pro= posal a mechanism is clearly defined and includes bi-dir data plane probes = send between R7-R9, R3-R7, R4-R7, R4-R9, R3-R9

=C2=A0

Many thx,<= /p>

Robert.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

On Fri, Nov 22, 2019 at 4:38 AM= Shraddha Hegde <shraddha=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf..org> wrote:

WG,

=C2=A0

This is the draft I pointed out= that talks about solutions for providing node-protection.

It covers Anycast case as well = as keeping forwarding plane longer.

=C2=A0

Review and comments solicited.<= u>

=C2=A0

Rgds

Shraddha

=C2=A0

_______________________________= ________________
rtgwg mailing list
rtgwg@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailm= an/listinfo/rtgwg

=C2=A0

=C2=A0


___________________________________________________________________________=

This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains informa= tion which is
CONFIDENTIAL and which may be proprietary to ECI Telecom. If you have recei= ved this
transmission in error, please inform us by e-mail, phone or fax, and then d= elete the original
and all copies thereof.
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=C2=A0


___________________________________________________________________________=

This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains informa= tion which is
CONFIDENTIAL and which may be proprietary to ECI Telecom. If you have recei= ved this
transmission in error, please inform us by e-mail, phone or fax, and then d= elete the original
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(2048-bit key) header.d=raszuk.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zCeTl-CvbNZc for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2019 02:14:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qk1-x734.google.com (mail-qk1-x734.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::734]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 714A31200D7 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2019 02:14:26 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qk1-x734.google.com with SMTP id a10so8927767qko.9 for ; Mon, 02 Dec 2019 02:14:26 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=raszuk.net; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=SSRsHpRFqMmIBHoe20btvrzo8TdARKSi9YkuPYFtkUo=; b=YBEaMTi9l9Xj/radEyzrEcQsozHKeeHQZ3xrlW03k+IGoWmWzi+L8sbpzahAjkI1jW OhLC5NndX7V+PMXKCDTcR0UX1ZFvT/SfkJ9ZHaLnr8G4jDCJLtRrpibw0ZkYbt6NsLLc 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APXvYqxMbmhjpWvo2C7R2EnxJ8EtTITvzDDpFD9xNzU8FJTrpX9+hX7XauAGR/iY0RhyDp15jWBuAbTmhC/NRU0kM8M= X-Received: by 2002:a37:693:: with SMTP id 141mr16367595qkg.134.1575281665219; Mon, 02 Dec 2019 02:14:25 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Robert Raszuk Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2019 11:14:15 +0100 Message-ID: To: Andrew Alston Cc: Shraddha Hegde , Alexander Vainshtein , "spring@ietf.org" , "rtg-bfd@ietf.org" , "rtgwg@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000013b3950598b5d82d" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Draft for Node protection of intermediate nodes in SR Paths X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2019 10:14:28 -0000 --00000000000013b3950598b5d82d Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I encourage you to read those two documents: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-akiya-bfd-seamless-sr-04 https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ali-spring-bfd-sr-policy-02 Cheers, R. On Mon, Dec 2, 2019 at 11:06 AM Andrew Alston < Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com> wrote: > Robert =E2=80=93 actually I disagree. > > > > Because to protect the paths you need the node protection on intermediate > nodes due to lack of state =E2=80=93 the headend has no way to actually p= rotect an > end to end path outside of S-BFD steered over the path to test end to end > reachability and if you get an intermediate node-failure on the path you > could run into a problem =F0=9F=98=8A > > > > As per draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-policy-05 a path is valid when: > > > > It is empty > > Its weight is 0 > > It=E2=80=99s headend is unable to perform path resolution for the first S= ID into > one or more outgoing interface(s) and next-hop(s) > > The headend is unable to perform SID resolution for any non-first SID of > type C through K into an MPLS label or an SRv6 SID > > The headend verification fails for any SID for which verification has bee= n > explicitly requested > > > > Effectively =E2=80=93 as of right now =E2=80=93 if you read that draft = =E2=80=93 there is no > mechanism to verify path nodes if you are doing paths based on type A SID= =E2=80=99s > =E2=80=93 the only way right now to do that =E2=80=93 is using S-BFD =E2= =80=93 however this draft > if my understanding is correct =E2=80=93 would allow for node protection = that would > in effect protect the paths injected. > > > > Thanks > > Andrew > > > > > > *From:* Robert Raszuk > *Sent:* Monday, 2 December 2019 12:50 > *To:* Andrew Alston > *Cc:* Shraddha Hegde ; Alexander > Vainshtein ; spring@ietf.org; > rtg-bfd@ietf.org; rtgwg@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: [spring] Draft for Node protection of intermediate nodes > in SR Paths > > > > On Mon, Dec 2, 2019 at 10:28 AM Andrew Alston < > Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com> wrote: > > > > Currently the biggest issue that I see with S-BFD based protection =E2=80= =93 which > is something we use in production is as follows: > > > > Unless I=E2=80=99m mistaken =E2=80=93 there is absolutely no way to tie S= -BFD based > protection with BGP injected SR-TE pathing > > > > > > Well I am not sure what you call " BGP injected SR-TE pathing" but if you > are looking for validation of BGP paths that has been supported by some > vendors for a loooong time. Hint: you allocate different next hop for you= r > SR-TE endpoints and voila. > > > > Btw - not an ietf topic, but an implementation request / vendor's feature= . > > > > Besides, since you are talking about headend what you are describing is > path protection ... this draft talks about node protection which is a > completely different thing. > > > > Cheers, > > r. > > --00000000000013b3950598b5d82d Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I encourage=C2=A0you to read those two= =C2=A0documents:


=C2=A0
Cheers,
R.=C2=A0

On Mon, D= ec 2, 2019 at 11:06 AM Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com> wrote:

Robert =E2=80=93 actually I dis= agree.

=C2=A0

Because to protect the paths yo= u need the node protection on intermediate nodes due to lack of state =E2= =80=93 the headend has no way to actually protect an end to end path outsid= e of S-BFD steered over the path to test end to end reachability and if you get an in= termediate node-failure on the path you could run into a problem =F0=9F=98=8A

=C2=A0

As per draft-ietf-spring-segmen= t-routing-policy-05 a path is valid when:

=C2=A0

It is empty

Its weight is 0

It=E2=80=99s headend is unable = to perform path resolution for the first SID into one or more outgoing inte= rface(s) and next-hop(s)

The headend is unable to perfor= m SID resolution for any non-first SID of type C through K into an MPLS lab= el or an SRv6 SID

The headend verification fails = for any SID for which verification has been explicitly requested<= /u>

=C2=A0

Effectively =E2=80=93 as of rig= ht now =E2=80=93 if you read that draft =E2=80=93 there is no mechanism to = verify path nodes if you are doing paths based on type A SID=E2=80=99s =E2= =80=93 the only way right now to do that =E2=80=93 is using S-BFD =E2=80=93 however this draft if my understanding is correct= =E2=80=93 would allow for node protection that would in effect protect the= paths injected.

=C2=A0

Thanks

Andrew

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

From: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Sent: Monday, 2 December 2019 12:50
To: Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com>
Cc: Shraddha Hegde <shraddha=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>; Alexa= nder Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com>; spring@ietf.org; rtg-bfd@ietf.org; rtgwg@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [spring] Draft for Node protection of intermediate node= s in SR Paths

=C2=A0

On Mon, Dec 2, 2019 at 10:28 AM Andrew Alston <Andrew.A= lston@liquidtelecom.com> wrote:

=C2=A0

Currently the biggest issue tha= t I see with S-BFD based protection =E2=80=93 which is something we use in = production is as follows:<= /p>

=C2=A0

Unless I=E2=80=99m mistaken =E2= =80=93 there is absolutely no way to tie S-BFD based protection with BGP in= jected SR-TE pathing

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Well I am not sure what you call " BGP injected= SR-TE pathing" but if you are looking for validation of BGP paths tha= t has been supported by some vendors for a loooong time. Hint: you allocate= different next hop for your SR-TE endpoints and voila.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Btw - not an ietf topic, but an implementation reque= st / vendor's feature.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Besides, since you are talking about headend what yo= u are describing is path protection ... this draft talks about node protect= ion which is a completely different thing.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Cheers,

r.

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[spring] Draft for Node protection of intermediate nodes in SR Paths Thread-Index: AdWg5kSzPcmokSdUTd+ujmkEsxaFPQAMBq8AADGDFIAAA2XugAABUkKAAAdRE4ABsInvgAADpWmAAAEKboAAA6iU8AABbEuAAABBMsAAAJvxgAAALybA Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2019 10:27:51 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [197.155.81.57] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-ht: Tenant x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 20c39d3c-b294-4d11-228c-08d777124920 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: DBBPR03MB5397: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:4303; x-forefront-prvs: 0239D46DB6 x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; 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b=iPZ2+5wQvjkANf9XSmjzKEEOQrH5OcmJgWuW2ghunhcGCoJpQeNvNT80gLaB5OXrpU iJ1mHYYzBjOjK/JlgDXN9Ow29qfblgfAdpC/9Eq9S+8i7ow248ji1y7Px790kmFyXnYU DT0wTOj0D9TTTBp3lI3qENchlj+qDNQLAVv4c/wXjuDqhS3R/VP9CGMcKuxKg8TcuIK7 Uwr4f+egvSBpCuavVR3DK0qJDO2JQHg0Oa0l/VS0jRHMcZzNvyf/DWpDnZbnIi8w1hgx +8CzG8mGJhytnwxAJqfSdjAbaNdll+yNBBnev/sFkO6GFIbxo1ais9sJfo9438I45Fp6 Xi9Q== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVYl2RCwThAkXqc3DMRMyjKHi8RhM+0hrnHOw/Rcn6OscOaf2cl X+QFZYo/OqT+E63wGg69CmOB77zXk54mpt/d6GhEE80m X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyDkGa67kdUn1m3Ma7Jhc2U4i1Q7ZTfXOwdsBSwJDFxh9xseY7HIBpoiastTBpPxr65L4cACyVBjPhgHYJJg/M= X-Received: by 2002:a19:ae10:: with SMTP id f16mr28234617lfc.147.1575297885852; Mon, 02 Dec 2019 06:44:45 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Greg Mirsky Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2019 09:44:34 -0500 Message-ID: To: Alexander Vainshtein Cc: Robert Raszuk , Shraddha Hegde , "spring@ietf.org" , "rtg-bfd@ietf.org" , "rtgwg@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000e6d85e0598b99e9a" Archived-At: Subject: [spring] Node failure detection (was Re: Draft for Node protection of intermediate nodes in SR Paths) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2019 14:44:52 -0000 --000000000000e6d85e0598b99e9a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Sasha, et al., many thanks for the great discussion. Please correct me if my recollection is not accurate, but at the time of RFC 4090 it was agreed, that a trigger to local protection may be in fact a false negative and, as a result, the protection switchover is suboptimal. I understand that as the realization that there should be a practical and pragmatic balance between time to detect a failure and the accuracy of characterizing it. I think, that the draft Shraddha had mentioned, doesn't need to discuss any of these issues. What I'm curious, as you've suggested to the possible use of S-BFD, what then the detection time could be. Unlike with the asynchronous mode of BFD, S-BFD, as I understand, doesn't have predictable detection time like defined in Section 6.8.4 RFC 5880. The detection time by S-BFD, I believe, characterizes RTT and RTT may vary from probe to probe significantly. True, a system may gather S-BFD RTT statistics to set and periodically adjust the detection time to achieve more accurate failure detection. But, in my view, it seems like significant complexity comparing to RFC 5880. Regards, Greg On Sat, Nov 23, 2019 at 9:45 AM Alexander Vainshtein < Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com> wrote: > Robert, > On the second thought, for the purpose of this draft (i.e. in the scope of > SR) it is possible to implement your suggestion by running S-BFD sessions > between R7 (as the initiator) and each other adjacency of R8 (acting as > Reflectors) of a SR policy with list of two SIDs: > - protected adjacency between R7 and R8 > - Node SID of the specific "other" adjacency of R8. > > If all these sessions fail, R7 can reliably consider R8 as failed. > > I am not sure this would be much better than multi-hop IP BFD, and it > looks much more complicated to me. > > > What do you think? > > > > > Get Outlook for Android > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Alexander Vainshtein > *Sent:* Saturday, November 23, 2019, 13:15 > *To:* Robert Raszuk; Shraddha Hegde > *Cc:* spring@ietf.org; rtgwg@ietf.org; rtg-bfd@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: [spring] Draft for Node protection of intermediate nodes > in SR Paths > > Robert, > Lots of thanks for a prompt response. > > I respectfully disagree with your statement that BFD implementation is > usually offloaded to the HW of the ingress line card. I do not think this > can wor for MH BFD sessions because the ingress and egress line cards are > not known in advance and change with the routing changes > A good multi-hop BFD implementation should be ready to overcome this.. > There are many ways to achieve that. A naive implementation that runs in SW > of the control card is also possible of course. And they would sensd and > receive packets > > My 2c. > Get Outlook for Android > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Robert Raszuk > *Sent:* Saturday, November 23, 2019, 12:37 > *To:* Alexander Vainshtein; Shraddha Hegde > *Cc:* spring@ietf.org; rtgwg@ietf.org; rtg-bfd@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: [spring] Draft for Node protection of intermediate nodes > in SR Paths > > Hi Sasha, > > On the surface your suggestion may look cool - but if you zoom in - I do > not think it will work in practice. > > See - one of the biggest value of BFD is its offload to line card's > hardware. And in most cases it is ingress line card to the box. So if you > instruct such hardware to respond to SID address loopback you still did not > gain much in terms of detection router's fabric failures, remote LC failure > or control plane issues which could soon result in box failure. The > catalogue of router failures is of course much more colorful. > > If you ask BFD to be responded by RP/RE it no longer has the BFD > advantage. > > IMHO the best way to detect node failure is actually to send the probes > *across* the node under test to its peers. > > The way I would think of establishing such m-hop sessions would be fully > automated with one knob per IGP adj. ex: "bfd detect-node-failure [max N]" > where local BFD subsystem would create N sessions to IGP peers of the node > we are to protect. LSDB has those peers so no new protocol extension is > needed, perhaps even no new IETF draft is required :). N would be the limit > of such sessions in case the node under protection has say 10s of peers. > Default could be perhaps even 1. > > Thx, > Robert. > > > On Sat, Nov 23, 2019 at 10:00 AM Alexander Vainshtein < > Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com> wrote: > >> Shraddha, Robert and all, >> Regarding Robert's question: >> I wonder if multi-hop IP BFD session with addresses used as /32 (or /128) >> prefixes serving as Nose SIDs of R8 and R7 respectively could be used as >> such a trigger by R7? Such a session would not respond to link failures, >> and I find it problematic to imagine a scenario when it would be kept UP in >> the case of a real node failure. >> >> Of course such a session would have to be slow enough not to react to >> link failures. But it still couks be much faster than IGP conversion IMHO. >> >> My 2c, >> Sasha >> >> Such >> >> >> Get Outlook for Android >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* spring on behalf of Robert Raszuk < >> robert@raszuk.net> >> *Sent:* Friday, November 22, 2019, 11:22 >> *To:* Shraddha Hegde >> *Cc:* spring@ietf.org; rtgwg@ietf.org >> *Subject:* Re: [spring] Draft for Node protection of intermediate nodes >> in SR Paths >> >> Hi Shraddha, >> >> I have one question to the document. >> >> As you know the critical element for the effective protection of any >> scheme is the failure detection. On that your draft seems to have just one >> little paragraph: >> >> Note that R7 activates the node-protecting backup path when it >> detects that the link to R8 has failed. R7 does not know that node >> R8 has actually failed. However, the node-protecting backup path is >> computed assuming that the failure of the link to R8 implies that R8 >> has failed. >> >> >> Well IMO this is not enough. Specifically there can be a lot of types of >> node failure when link is still up. Moreover there can be even running BFD >> across the link just fine when say fabric failure occurs at R8. >> >> While this is not solely issue with this draft, it is our common IETF >> failure to provide correct means of detecting end to end path or fragments >> of path failures (I am specifically not calling them segment here :). >> >> For example I propose that to effectively detect R8 failure as node >> failure which is the topic of your proposal a mechanism is clearly defined >> and includes bi-dir data plane probes send between R7-R9, R3-R7, R4-R7, >> R4-R9, R3-R9 >> >> Many thx, >> Robert. >> >> >> On Fri, Nov 22, 2019 at 4:38 AM Shraddha Hegde > 40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf..org <40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>> wrote: >> >>> WG, >>> >>> This is the draft I pointed out that talks about solutions for providing >>> node-protection. >>> It covers Anycast case as well as keeping forwarding plane longer. >>> >>> *https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hegde-spring-node-protection-for-sr-te-paths-05* >>> >>> >>> Review and comments solicited. >>> >>> Rgds >>> Shraddha >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> rtgwg mailing list >>> rtgwg@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtgwg >>> >> >> > > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > > This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains > information which is > CONFIDENTIAL and which may be proprietary to ECI Telecom. If you have > received this > transmission in error, please inform us by e-mail, phone or fax, and then > delete the original > and all copies thereof. > ___________________________________________________________________________ > --000000000000e6d85e0598b99e9a Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Sasha, et al.,
many thanks f= or the great discussion. Please correct me if my recollection is not accura= te, but at the time of RFC 4090 it was agreed, that a trigger to local prot= ection may be in fact a false negative and, as a result, the protection swi= tchover is suboptimal. I understand that as the realization that there shou= ld be a practical and pragmatic balance between time to detect a failure an= d the accuracy of characterizing it. I think, that the draft Shraddha had m= entioned, doesn't need to discuss any of these issues.
What I= 'm curious, as you've suggested to the possible use of S-BFD, what = then the detection time could be. Unlike with the asynchronous mode of BFD,= S-BFD, as I understand, doesn't have predictable detection time like d= efined in Section 6.8.4 RFC 5880. The detection time by S-BFD, I believe, c= haracterizes RTT and RTT may vary from probe to probe significantly. True, = a system may gather S-BFD RTT statistics to set and periodically adjust the= detection time to achieve more accurate failure detection. But, in my view= , it seems like significant complexity comparing to RFC 5880.
Regards,
Greg

On Sat, Nov 23, 2019 at 9:45 AM Alexande= r Vainshtein <Alexan= der.Vainshtein@ecitele.com> wrote:
Robert,
On the second thought, for the purpose of this draft (i.e. in the scope of = SR) it is possible to implement your suggestion by running S-BFD sessions b= etween R7 (as the initiator) and each other adjacency of R8=C2=A0 (acting a= s Reflectors) of a SR policy with list of two SIDs:
- protected adjacency between R7 and R8
- Node SID of the specific "other" adjacency=C2=A0 of R8.

If all these sessions fail, R7 can reliably consider R8 as failed.=C2=A0

I am not sure this would be much better than multi-hop IP BFD, and it looks= much more complicated to me.=C2=A0


What do you think?




Get Outlook for Android=
From: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2019, 13:15
To: Robert Raszuk; Shraddha Hegde
Cc: s= pring@ietf.org; rtg= wg@ietf.org; rtg-= bfd@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [spring] Draft for Node protection of interme= diate nodes in SR Paths

Robert,
Lots of thanks for a prompt response.

I respectfully disagree with your statement that BFD implementation=C2=A0 i= s usually offloaded to the HW of the ingress line card.=C2=A0 I do not thin= k this can wor for MH BFD sessions because the ingress and egress line card= s are not known in advance and change with the routing changes
A good=C2=A0 multi-hop BFD implementation should be ready to overcome this.= . There are many ways to achieve that. A naive implementation that runs in = SW of the control card is also possible of course. And they would sensd and= receive packets=C2=A0

My 2c.
Get Outlook for Android
From: Robert Raszuk <= robert@raszuk.net>
Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2019, 12:37
To: Alexander Vainshtein; Shraddha Hegde
Cc: s= pring@ietf.org; rtg= wg@ietf.org; rtg-= bfd@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [spring] Draft for Node protection of interme= diate nodes in SR Paths

Hi Sasha,

On the surface your suggestion may look cool - but if you zoom in - I = do not think it will work in practice.=C2=A0

See - one of the biggest value of BFD is its offload to line card'= s hardware. And in most cases it is ingress line card to the box. So if you= instruct such hardware to respond to SID address loopback you still did no= t gain much in terms of detection router's fabric failures, remote LC failure or control=C2=A0plane issues which coul= d soon result in box failure. The catalogue of router failures is of course= much more colorful.=C2=A0

If you ask BFD to be responded by RP/RE it no longer has the BFD advan= tage.=C2=A0

IMHO the best way to detect node failure=C2=A0is actually to send the = probes *across* the node under test to its peers.=C2=A0

The way I would think of establishing such m-hop sessions would be ful= ly automated with one knob per IGP adj. ex: "bfd detect-node-failure [= max N]" where local BFD subsystem would create N sessions to IGP peers= of the node we are to protect. LSDB has those peers so no new protocol extension=C2=A0is needed, perhaps even no new IET= F draft is required :). N would be the limit of such sessions in case the n= ode under protection has say 10s of peers. Default could be perhaps even 1.= =C2=A0

Thx,
Robert.


On Sat, Nov 23, 2019 at 10:00 AM Alex= ander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com> wrote:
Shraddha, Robert and all,
Regarding Robert's question:=C2=A0
I wonder if multi-hop IP BFD session with addresses used as /32 (or /128) p= refixes serving as Nose SIDs of R8 and R7 respectively could be used as suc= h a trigger by R7? Such a session would not respond to link failures, and I= find it problematic to imagine a scenario when it would be kept UP in the case of a real node failure.

Of course such a session would have to be slow enough not to react to link = failures. But it still couks be much faster than IGP conversion IMHO.

My 2c,
Sasha

Such


Get Outlook for Android
From: spring <spring-bounces@ietf.o= rg> on behalf of Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Sent: Friday, November 22, 2019, 11:22
To: Shraddha Hegde
Cc: s= pring@ietf.org; rtgwg@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [spring] Draft for Node protection of interme= diate nodes in SR Paths

Hi=C2=A0Shraddha,

I have one question to the document.=C2=A0

As you know the critical element for=C2=A0the effective protection of = any scheme is the failure detection. On that your draft seems to have just = one little paragraph:=C2=A0

   Note that R7 activates the node-protecting b=
ackup path when it
   detects that the link to R8 has failed.  R7 does not know that node
   R8 has actually failed.  However, the node-protecting backup path is
   computed assuming that the failure of the link to R8 implies that R8
   has failed.

Well IMO this is not enough. Specifically=C2=A0there can be a lot of t= ypes of node failure when link is still up. Moreover there can be even runn= ing BFD across the link just fine when say fabric failure occurs at R8.=C2= =A0

While this is not solely issue with this draft, it is our common IETF = failure to provide correct means of detecting end to end path or fragments = of path failures (I am specifically not calling them segment here :).=C2=A0=

For example I propose that to effectively detect R8 failure as node fa= ilure which is the topic of your proposal a mechanism is clearly defined an= d includes bi-dir data plane probes send between R7-R9, R3-R7, R4-R7, R4-R9= , R3-R9

Many thx,
Robert.


On Fri, Nov 22, 2019 at 4:38 AM Shrad= dha Hegde <shraddha=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf..org> wrote:
WG,
=C2=A0
This is the draft I pointed out that talks about solutions for providi= ng node-protection.
It covers Anycast case as well as keeping forwarding plane longer.
=C2=A0
Review and comments solicited.
=C2=A0
Rgds
Shraddha
=C2=A0
_______________________________________________
rtgwg mailing list
rtgwg@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtgwg



___________________________________________________________________________=

This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains informa= tion which is
CONFIDENTIAL and which may be proprietary to ECI Telecom. If you have recei= ved this
transmission in error, please inform us by e-mail, phone or fax, and then d= elete the original
and all copies thereof.
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([2601:647:5a00:ef0b:81b0:2c82:5f29:8c96]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id r15sm41841322wrc.5.2019.12.02.07.46.42 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 02 Dec 2019 07:46:43 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Hinden Message-Id: <1E03C1DB-980A-4BFE-9DCD-56C26BDC8B77@gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_5EB0512F-4D28-4DF8-A703-02571AE8ECF9"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2019 07:46:39 -0800 In-Reply-To: Cc: Bob Hinden , Mark Smith , SPRING WG To: Ron Bonica References: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] SRv6 Network Programming and Link Local Source Addresses X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2019 15:46:48 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_5EB0512F-4D28-4DF8-A703-02571AE8ECF9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Ron, > On Dec 2, 2019, at 7:36 AM, Ron Bonica wrote: >=20 > Bob, >=20 > Take a look at Section 4.2. The pseudocode is pretty specific. Please explain. I don=E2=80=99t see that. Thanks, Bob >=20 > Ron >=20 >=20 >=20 > Juniper Business Use Only >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Bob Hinden > Sent: Sunday, December 1, 2019 5:56 PM > To: Ron Bonica > Cc: Bob Hinden ; Mark Smith = ; SPRING WG > Subject: Re: [spring] SRv6 Network Programming and Link Local Source = Addresses >=20 > Ron, >=20 >> On Dec 1, 2019, at 2:47 PM, Ron Bonica wrote: >>=20 >> Mark, Bob, >>=20 >> Yes, I agree that routers should not forward packets with link local = source addresses. >=20 > or Destination addresses. >=20 >>=20 >> Pablo, >>=20 >> Maybe we should update section 4.2 of the network programming draft = to reflect this? >=20 > I was thinking that unless network programming has text that might = cause one to think it overrides the defined behavior from rfc4291 for = link-local addresses, I am not sure it has to be mentioned. >=20 > Bob >=20 >=20 >>=20 >> Ron >>=20 >>=20 >> From: Mark Smith >> Sent: Sunday, December 1, 2019 5:31 PM >> To: Bob Hinden >> Cc: Ron Bonica ; SPRING WG >> Subject: Re: [spring] SRv6 Network Programming and Link Local Source = Addresses >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> On Mon, 2 Dec 2019, 08:35 Bob Hinden, wrote: >> Ron, >>=20 >>> On Nov 30, 2019, at 12:36 PM, Ron Bonica = wrote: >>>=20 >>> Pablo, >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Consider the packet (SA,DA) (S3, S2, S1; SL) where: >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> =E2=80=A2 SA is link-local (fe80) >>> =E2=80=A2 DA, S3, S2, and S1 are all END.X >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Section 4.2 suggests that this packet will be delivered over = multiple hops to its destination, regardless of its link-local source = address. >>=20 >> I would think that RFC2460 Section 2.5.6. "Link-Local IPv6 Unicast = Addresses=E2=80=9D covers this: >>=20 >> Link-Local addresses are for use on a single link. Link-Local >> addresses have the following format: >>=20 >> | 10 | >> | bits | 54 bits | 64 bits | >> +----------+-------------------------+----------------------------+ >> |1111111010| 0 | interface ID | >> +----------+-------------------------+----------------------------+ >>=20 >> Link-Local addresses are designed to be used for addressing on a >> single link for purposes such as automatic address configuration, >> neighbor discovery, or when no routers are present. >>=20 >> Routers must not forward any packets with Link-Local source or >> destination addresses to other links. >>=20 >> I think that's RFC4291. >>=20 >> RFC4007, "IPv6 Scoped Address Architecture" does too, more generally = and probably more formally, in particular section 9, "Forwarding". >>=20 >> Regards, >> Mark. >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> Bob >>=20 >>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Is this the case? >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Ron >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Juniper Business Use Only >>> _______________________________________________ >>> spring mailing list >>> spring@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> spring mailing list >> spring@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring >>=20 >> Juniper Business Use Only --Apple-Mail=_5EB0512F-4D28-4DF8-A703-02571AE8ECF9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEm0rfRsOCoyamPexGrut0EXfnu6gFAl3lMd8ACgkQrut0EXfn u6h+GggAwH4m/SMD+9mDfayj7USHcSeVGYuT9OZq2ZauXhCduF1jbps8Nq1FxKvS +u3Us5Tcz6ZQn0rGIl32KGAS7C+WyTGGRk5AbtTN4aIxq81m6Ee0v1BTaVynlXth kMWUvOPBsnwqrsnUUELJroN8QXufOy5WTrKkdA4gx59zXOEc6ogIexXB/uWdkIUb gR1ROpULsj6peoTJnH7Me3DvJMDUlq5GlP6kSozciW4M5zR0MoPbqsNz/0UVeT+m jY99QX6ysItmCjSAITUfm2qX+V5Ft8pM3bK07lsBw/53ImANDmy00XSwWVJXVa8u 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b=QP2W9LbnbWrrAMi5TGN/TOsIOViHNe8SwLddUyUI97zAzRvU+XvmmUhjUbyAhelMjvUNBXER5n8zwzhQCNRGBCpp5kbbS5PYvNtzycVb1s/iKpb0he/uBuGDV1LD4w1RTPAZ7Amc235MQz9+eUNxqmnm/QiQKnKMim3RcwtIFBQ= Received: from BN7PR05MB5699.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (20.176.28.88) by BN7PR05MB4371.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (52.133.223.143) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.2516.5; Mon, 2 Dec 2019 15:58:47 +0000 Received: from BN7PR05MB5699.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::185e:d297:6499:4987]) by BN7PR05MB5699.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::185e:d297:6499:4987%7]) with mapi id 15.20.2516.003; Mon, 2 Dec 2019 15:58:47 +0000 From: Ron Bonica To: Bob Hinden CC: Mark Smith , SPRING WG Thread-Topic: [spring] SRv6 Network Programming and Link Local Source Addresses Thread-Index: AdWnvRd0lqtmH80YQu+C6Oz5BkM5rgA0iXcAAAHtYYAAAH2owAAAaB+AACLhNsAAAGgsgAAAEqow Content-Class: Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2019 15:58:47 +0000 Message-ID: References: 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 X-OriginatorOrg: nokia.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 3549a8c9-a38a-4599-0136-08d778219aa2 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Dec 2019 18:50:02.1735 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Id: 5d471751-9675-428d-917b-70f44f9630b0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-MailboxType: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-UserPrincipalName: XL7ai/DPykVWbYezbpm9YTK0wNhq1dWlNTwybnfpmKoqzf/hi4mXK/nL6hm4TilJrSFFzJoF+S3ts3VKdv5VaDqG9razk6XlhGBp10Ofb5k= X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: VI1PR0701MB2255 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Thoughts and concerns X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2019 18:50:09 -0000 [simply replying to the latest e-mail of the thread] Hello I believe that discussing the content of such type of materials on SPRING’s mailing list is not the most productive thing to do, primarily because I can’t see how having such a discussion could serve the objectives of the WG. I have read that some of you were concerned by the content and I fully respect that, but the IETF, as an organisation, has little to none control over what is written in such type of document. Do not hesitate, however, to directly contact me if needed. Nonetheless, it appears that the document was modified. I thus hope that this will no longer be discussed and that the work of the WG can resume peacefully. However, since I am quoted/referenced in this document, would like to clarify very strongly that I did not participate in any form whatsoever to its elaboration and publication. Thank you Martin Le 2019-12-02 à 21:06, Bertrand Duvivier (bduvivie) a écrit : > FYI, the authors updated the document as follows: > > Old   text: SRv6 network programming draft is on track with an on-going > SPRING last call. > > New text: SRv6 network programming draft is on track with an on-going > SPRING last call request. > > Best Regards, > Bertrand > > *From: *spring on behalf of > "bruno.decraene@orange.com" > *Date: *Friday, 29 November 2019 at 11:30 > *To: *Andrew Alston > *Cc: *"spring-ads@ietf.org" , 'SPRING WG List' > , "spring-chairs@ietf.org" > *Subject: *Re: [spring] Thoughts and concerns > > Andrew, > > I think we have enough with technical discussions to be held on the so > called ‘Beyond SRv6’ subjects. > > I don’t think that commenting on non IETF documents or initiating a > thread which has a possibility of been heated and which is not likely to > bring progress with regards to the technical choices and directions that > we want to follow, is going to be useful or a good use of everyone’s time. > > I would rather encourage you to work on the next steps which have been > proposed by the chairs during IETF 106. > > Several solutions on the table. Need to be explicit about the goals and > the costs of each proposal. > > ■ Authors are invited to explicit both in their document (short text) > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/106/materials/slides-106-spring-sessa-chairs-slides > > So regarding the document that you have quoted, or any document or video > that you may find in the Internet, or any vendor roadmap that you may > disagree with, I think that I would be more efficient that you engage > with their authors or the representative of the companies you are > working with (or not working with). I can hear that from an network > operator standpoint, sourcing issues do exist, but this is not an IETF > business. Coming back to a related comment that you previously made, the > IETF has worked and standardized SR-MPLS for IPv6 prefixes/FEC. The fact > that some vendors do not implement it (soon enough) is not a standard > issue not something that the IETF can work on. In itself, it’s also not > a (strong) reason for the IETF to work on another solution. > > Regarding IETF protocol work, again, we have multiple solutions on the > table. Let’s go a bit deeper with the technical discussions about the > goal(s) and means proposed by each solution. Let’s see if we can > identity the technical points that are worth discussing and try to gain > consensus on that. Keeping in mind that both on the requirements and > solutions aspects, tradeoffs are likely involved. > > Let’s go further than ‘my solution is the best/simplest/more beautiful’. > I’m even dreaming that we could go further than my solution is better on > KPI/requirement X. (disregarding other KPI/requirements). > > * The forth bullet point is really interesting - because I have yet to > see a last-call for this document on the mailing list - unless I > missed it - which is explicitly required as per RFC2418 Section 3.2 > > If this is a point for spring chairs, that they have not yet initiated > the last call, nearly a week after the IETF 106 meeting, ok, point taken. > > Thank you, > > --Bruno > > *From:*spring [mailto:spring-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Andrew Alston > *Sent:* Thursday, November 28, 2019 4:27 PM > *To:* 'SPRING WG List' > *Subject:* [spring] Thoughts and concerns > > Hi Guys, > > I have some questions - I ran across a document which has me deeply > concerned - that purports to be written by the authors of SRH and makes > direct reference to this working group.  And since the claims in it are > deeply worrying - I think its time to ask for some answers. I fully > realize that well - what people publish outside of the IETF is probably > no business of the IETF - but, a document that claims to be published by > the authors of a draft - that makes false claims about the working > groups very charter - that - concerns me. > > The document itself can be found at: > https://www.segment-routing.net/images/20191029-02-Update-on-SRv6-standardization-activities.pdf > > Now - here is my issue > > Firstly - the second bullet point in that document runs *DIRECTLY* > contrary to what is stated in the spring charter - to quote the charter: > > /_The Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG (SPRING) Working Group is the > home of Segment Routing (SR) using MPLS (SR-MPLS) and IPv6 (SRv6)._/ > > /_SPRING WG serves as a forum to discuss SPRING networks operations, > define new applications of, and specify extensions of Segment Routing_/ > > /_technologies._/ > > The forth bullet point is really interesting - because I have yet to see > a last-call for this document on the mailing list - unless I missed it - > which is explicitly required as per RFC2418 Section 3.2 > > I am not going to bother with the rest of the document - because well - > people are free to their own technical opinions - but it greatly bothers > me when the authors of a draft are publishing what are in effect blatant > untruths in order to promote their work - and I believe it should bother > everyone in this working group when such appears. > > Thanks > > Andrew > > _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ > > Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc > > pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler > > a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, > > Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci. > > This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged information that may be protected by law; > > they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. > > If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this message and its attachments. > > As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been modified, changed or falsified. > > Thank you. > From nobody Wed Dec 4 06:06:45 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5073120839; Wed, 4 Dec 2019 06:06:36 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, 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Shraddha Hegde To: Huzhibo , "rtgwg@ietf.org" , "spring@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Reply: Draft for Node protection of intermediate nodes in SR Paths Thread-Index: AdWhj5C+rGLfLm+dT2qnxncpj2IKRAHOjtvgAAT4uDAAc4alkA== Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2019 14:05:58 +0000 Message-ID: References: <06CF729DA0D6854E8C1E5121AC3330DFAF479346@dggemm529-mbs.china.huawei.com> <06CF729DA0D6854E8C1E5121AC3330DFAF48FD73@dggemm509-mbx.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <06CF729DA0D6854E8C1E5121AC3330DFAF48FD73@dggemm509-mbx.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: msip_labels: MSIP_Label_9784d817-3396-4a4f-b60c-3ef6b345fe55_ActionId=3ca7a547-6378-46db-b8ab-00006cf8a8da; MSIP_Label_9784d817-3396-4a4f-b60c-3ef6b345fe55_ContentBits=0; MSIP_Label_9784d817-3396-4a4f-b60c-3ef6b345fe55_Enabled=true; MSIP_Label_9784d817-3396-4a4f-b60c-3ef6b345fe55_Method=Standard; MSIP_Label_9784d817-3396-4a4f-b60c-3ef6b345fe55_Name=Juniper Business Use Only; 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X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: HCpJlYMz2I2SyLhti/VSA4SAk0zFBbrb9syMnOO6TTi9A4bTqUlwOq6HVl0BiiPsANGQszbpy37pGkzeTaPi0A== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN7PR05MB3953 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.95,18.0.572 definitions=2019-12-04_03:2019-12-04,2019-12-04 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_spam_notspam policy=outbound_spam score=0 mlxscore=0 bulkscore=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 clxscore=1015 spamscore=0 adultscore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 phishscore=0 priorityscore=1501 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=823 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-1910280000 definitions=main-1912040136 Archived-At: Subject: [spring] Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2019 16:37:37 -0000 --_000_BN7PR05MB56998A05469327E759B5B671AE5D0BN7PR05MB5699namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Pablo, It seems to me that the following are equally controversial: * A transit node inserting a Routing header * A transit node removing a Routing header We have agreed to move discussion of RH insertion out of the Network Progra= mming draft and into another draft. Shouldn't discussion of RH removal be t= reated similarly. This comment applies to Penultimate Segment Popping (PHP) in the Network Pr= ogramming draft. Ron Juniper Business Use Only --_000_BN7PR05MB56998A05469327E759B5B671AE5D0BN7PR05MB5699namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Pablo,

 

It seems to me that the following are equally contro= versial:

 

  • A transit node inserting a Routing header
  • A tran= sit node removing a Routing header

 

We have agreed to move discussion of RH insertion ou= t of the Network Programming draft and into another draft. Shouldn’t = discussion of RH removal be treated similarly.

 

This comment applies to Penultimate Segment Popping = (PHP) in the Network Programming draft.

 

        &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;            &nb= sp;            =             &nb= sp;     Ron

 


Juniper Business= Use Only

--_000_BN7PR05MB56998A05469327E759B5B671AE5D0BN7PR05MB5699namp_-- From nobody Wed Dec 4 11:15:00 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61704120947; Wed, 4 Dec 2019 11:14:53 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LlBX0iuncbww; Wed, 4 Dec 2019 11:14:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from fgont.go6lab.si (fgont.go6lab.si [91.239.96.14]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 692C1120946; Wed, 4 Dec 2019 11:14:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.4.77] (unknown [190.179.35.56]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by fgont.go6lab.si (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 37FF8825B4; Wed, 4 Dec 2019 20:14:43 +0100 (CET) To: Ron Bonica , SPRING WG , 6man <6man@ietf.org> References: Cc: "int-ads@ietf.org" , rtg-ads@ietf.org From: Fernando Gont Autocrypt: addr=fgont@si6networks.com; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBE5so2gBEACzBQBLUy8nzgAzSZn6ViXT6TmZBFNYNqTpPRvTVtUqF6+tkI+IEd9N2E8p pXUXCd0W4dkxz6o7pagnK63m4QSueggvp881RVVHOF8oTSHOdnGxLfLeLNJFKE1FOutU3vod GK/wG/Fwzkv9MebdXpMlLV8nnJuAt66XGl/lU1JrNfrKO4SoYQi4TsB/waUQcygh7OR/PEO0 EttiU8kZUbZNv58WH+PAj/rdZCrgUSiGXiWUQQKShqKnJxLuAcTcg5YRwL8se/V6ciW0QR9i /sr52gSmLLbW5N3hAoO+nv1V/9SjJAUvzXu43k8sua/XlCXkqU7uLj41CRR72JeUZ4DQsYfP LfNPC98ZGTVxbWbFtLXxpzzDDT8i3uo7w1LJ2Ij/d5ezcARqw01HGljWWxnidUrjbTpxkJ9X EllcsH94mer728j/HKzC9OcTuz6WUBP3Crgl6Q47gY5ZIiF0lsmd9/wxbaq5NiJ+lGuBRZrD v0dQx9KmyI0/pH2AF8cW897/6ypvcyD/1/11CJcN+uAGIrklwJlVpRSbKbFtGC6In592lhu7 wnK8cgyP5cTU+vva9+g6P1wehi4bylXdlKc6mMphbtSA+T3WBNP557+mh3L62l4pGaEGidcZ DLYT2Ud18eAJmxU3HnM8P3iZZgeoK7oqgb53/eg96vkONXNIOwARAQABtCVGZXJuYW5kbyBH b250IDxmZ29udEBzaTZuZXR3b3Jrcy5jb20+iQJBBBMBAgArAhsjBQkSzAMABgsJCAcDAgYV CAIJCgsEFgIDAQIeAQIXgAUCTmylpQIZAQAKCRCuJQ1VHU50kv7wD/9fuNtTfxSLk3B3Hs3p ixTy8YXVjdkVwWlnJjFd7BOWmg7sI+LDhpjGfT6+ddOiwkumnvUZpObodj4ysH0i8c7P4C5t F9yu7WjklSlrB5Rth2CGChg5bKt541z2WHkFFxys9qBLmCSYDeKQkzLqhCjIUJizY2kOJ2GI MnSFDzJjhSFEh//oW830Y8fel1xnf/NVF+lBVtRMtMOfoWUqDjvP3sJ1G4zgkDCnF0CfncLx +hq2Mv26Uq9OTzvLH9aSQQ/f067BOkKAJKsfHdborX4E96ISTz57/4xECRSMr5dVsKVm4Y// uVIsb+L5z+a32FaiBZIAKDgnJO7Z8j6CV5e5yfuBTtX52Yi9HjYYqnYJGSDxYd6igD4bWu+7 xmJPHjkdqZgGV6dQIgiUfqkU+s5Cv350vK48CMaT/ZLo2BdsMhWsmaHmb+waePUMyq6E4E9x 9Js+EJb9ZiCfxS9exgieZQpet1L36IvhiwByvkQM009ywfa30JeMOltUtfLi5V06WQWsTzPL 5C+4cpkguSuAJVDTctjCA0moIeVDOpJ8WH9voQ4IeWapQnX35OIoj1jGJqqYdx65gc1ygbyx b8vw+pJ9E5GLse5TQnYifOWpXzX9053dtbwp/2OVhU4KLlzfCPCEsoTyfu9nIZxdI2PMwiL5 M85BfjX4NmwBLmPGoLkCDQRObKNoARAAqqXCkr250BchRDmi+05F5UQFgylUh10XTAJxBeaQ UNtdxZiZRm6jgomSrqeYtricM9t9K0qb4X2ZXmAMW8o8AYW3RrQHTjcBwMnAKzUIEXXWaLfG cid/ygmvWzIHgMDQKP+MUq1AGQrnvt/MRLvZLyczAV1RTXS58qNaxtaSpc3K/yrDozh/a4pu WcUsVvIkzyx43sqcwamDSBb6U8JFoZizuLXiARLLASgyHrrCedNIZdWSx0z0iHEpZIelA2ih AGLiSMtmtikVEyrJICgO81DkKNCbBbPg+7fi23V6M24+3syHk3IdQibTtBMxinIPyLFF0byJ aGm0fmjefhnmVJyCIl/FDkCHprVhTme57G2/WdoGnUvnT7mcwDRb8XY5nNRkOJsqqLPemKjz kx8mXdQbunXtX9bKyVgd1gIl+LLsxbdzRCch773UBVoortPdK3kMyLtZ4uMeDX3comjx+6VL bztUdJ1Zc9/njwVG8fgmQ+0Kj5+bzQfUY+MmX0HTXIx3B4R1I1a8QoOwi1N+iZNdewV5Zfq+ 29NlQLnVPjCRCKbaz9k6RJ2oIti55YUI6zSsL3lmlOXsRbXN5bRswFczkNSCJxJMlDiyAUIC WOay7ymzvgzPa+BY/mYn94vRaurDQ4/ljOfj6oqgfjts+dJev4Jj89vp8MQI3KJpZPEAEQEA AYkCJQQYAQIADwUCTmyjaAIbDAUJEswDAAAKCRCuJQ1VHU50km4xEACho45PZrUjY4Zl2opR DFNo5a6roTOPpgwO9PcBb3I5F8yX2Dnew+9OhgWXbBhAFq4DCx+9Gjs43Bn60qbZTDbLGJ/m 8N4PwEiq0e5MKceYcbetEdEUWhm5L6psU9ZZ82GR3UGxPXYe+oifEoJjOXQ39avf9S8p3yKP Diil0E79rn7LbJjMcgMLyjFg9SDoJ6pHLtniJoDhEAaSSgeV7Y745+gyMIdtQmrFHfqrFdjq D6G0HE+Z68ywc5KN67YxhvhBmSycs1ZSKAXv1zLDlXdmjHDHkU3xMcB+RkuiTba8yRFYwb/n j62CC4NhFTuIKOc4ta3dJsyXTGh/hO9UjWUnmAGfd0fnzTBZF8Qlnw/8ftx5lt4/O+eqY1EN RITScnPzXE/wMOlTtdkddQ+QN6xt6jyR2XtAIi7aAFHypIqA3lLI9hF9x+lj4UQ2yA9LqpoX 6URpPOd13JhAyDe47cwsP1u9Y+OBvQTVLSvw7Liu2b4KjqL4lx++VdBi7dXsjJ6kjIRjI6Lb WVpxe8LumMCuVDepTafBZ49gr7Fgc4F9ZSCo6ChgQNLn6WDzIkqFX+42KuHz90AHWhuW+KZR 1aJylERWeTcMCGUSBptd48KniWmD6kPKpzwoMkJtEXTuO2lVuborxzwuqOTNuYg9lWDl7zKt wPI9brGzquUHy4qRrA== Message-ID: <45fb5ee8-7622-c00b-2288-987dcfc60e71@si6networks.com> Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2019 16:09:56 -0300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2019 19:14:53 -0000 On 4/12/19 13:37, Ron Bonica wrote: [...] > > It seems to me that the following are equally controversial: > >   > > * A transit node inserting a Routing header > * A transit node removing a Routing header > >   > > We have agreed to move discussion of RH insertion out of the Network > Programming draft and into another draft. Shouldn’t discussion of RH > removal be treated similarly. Of course yes. It seems there's some level of recurrency in this area. Folks trying to do an under-the-cover update of RFC8200 (wrt header insertion), or simply ignoring what RFC8200 says. We have been a long way in this area (to an extent of having to send back to the wg what would become RFC8200 (then rfc2460bis) because folks from one specific vendor were trying to push that agenda. It would seem to me that having us wg participants remind folks that you can't just violate specs (RFC8200, and Internet Standard) at will, or keep an eye on every move that is taken in this respect (e.g. ) does not seem to be the best way to spend our time, and also becomes uncomfortable. It also seems to me that the work of spring and 6man should be better coordinated. At times it would seem to me like things are cooked up in spring, and then 6man is expected to adapt to that. -- when, if you want to change a standard, the place to do it is 6man, and not elsewhere. So, to make the point clear, until there is a point where there is wg consensus in 6man to formally update RFC8200, an Internet Standard, can we please remove from all wg documents any sort of EH insertion/removal/mangling? In that light, may I ask the ADs that these things are better taken care of? And that given the controversy around the topic, any decision taken in this respect is CC'ed to 6man, and a decision is taken *on the maIling list* (as it should)? Thanks, -- Fernando Gont SI6 Networks e-mail: fgont@si6networks.com PGP Fingerprint: 6666 31C6 D484 63B2 8FB1 E3C4 AE25 0D55 1D4E 7492 From nobody Wed Dec 4 12:53:37 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10F0C120895; Wed, 4 Dec 2019 12:53:31 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YrVXT8okoqCj; Wed, 4 Dec 2019 12:53:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from clarinet.employees.org (clarinet.employees.org [198.137.202.74]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EDCFF12004C; Wed, 4 Dec 2019 12:53:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from astfgl.hanazo.no (unknown [IPv6:2a01:79c:cebd:47d8:ad94:c7e9:8646:805]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by clarinet.employees.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id ADF964E11B1B; Wed, 4 Dec 2019 20:53:28 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [IPv6:::1] (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by astfgl.hanazo.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC930249951B; Wed, 4 Dec 2019 21:53:24 +0100 (CET) From: Ole Troan Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.0 \(3601.0.10\)) Message-Id: Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2019 21:53:24 +0100 Cc: 6man Chairs <6man-chairs@ietf.org> To: 6man WG , SPRING WG X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3601.0.10) Archived-At: Subject: [spring] 6man w.g. last call for X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2019 20:53:31 -0000 Hello, As agreed in the working group session in Singapore, this message = starts a new two week 6MAN Working Group Last Call on advancing: Title : Operations, Administration, and Maintenance (OAM) in = Segment Routing Networks with IPv6 Data plane (SRv6) Author : Z. Ali, C. Filsfils, S. Matsushima, D. Voyer, M. Chen Filename : draft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6-oam-02 Pages : 23 Date : 2019-11-20 =20 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6-oam/ as a Proposed Standard. =20 Substantive comments and statements of support for publishing this = document should be directed to the mailing list. Editorial suggestions can be sent to the author. This last call will end = on the 18th of December 2019. To improve document quality and ensure that bugs are caught as early as = possible, we would require at least two reviewers to do a complete review of the document. Please let the = chairs know if you are willing to be a reviewer. The last call will be forwarded to the spring working group, with = discussion directed to the ipv6 list. Thanks, Bob & Ole, 6man co-chairs From nobody Wed Dec 4 13:37:27 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D4A21200A3; Wed, 4 Dec 2019 13:37:21 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.635 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.635 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_SBL_CSS=3.335, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=joelhalpern.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ESg4eNo35TId; Wed, 4 Dec 2019 13:37:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailb2.tigertech.net (mailb2.tigertech.net [208.80.4.154]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 18CD412004C; Wed, 4 Dec 2019 13:37:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailb2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47SsdD05JWz1ntF1; Wed, 4 Dec 2019 13:37:20 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=joelhalpern.com; s=2.tigertech; t=1575495440; bh=e/JQEIEaoxgfWSkgKNFTMKgbv7YxvZ0llfx9bXeph/s=; h=Subject:To:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=WQry76ErNsDshk+9pksyfc+KLUWrzsmwjRFLQYEv3n0B8KbYIwqHtl46z4zB2jz2E Io10OhT8Cd9hJe0VrL1abkTcRNvJm1OCyA49Zx8qXPwJLkL/xkzCrnp35CETRSu1oP 2pcoO6vYU8biPcJZNLRJULwNCZ88Bz4ju27WFJxc= X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at b2.tigertech.net Received: from [172.20.3.198] (unknown [45.225.71.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mailb2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 47SsdB48MCz1ntDx; Wed, 4 Dec 2019 13:37:18 -0800 (PST) To: Ole Troan , 6man WG , SPRING WG References: From: "Joel M. Halpern" Message-ID: <15bc440b-1dbc-0930-137f-f016ca527c2c@joelhalpern.com> Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2019 16:37:15 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] 6man w.g. last call for X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2019 21:37:21 -0000 I re-read this draft, and I am afraid it is currently under-specified. In order for the various examples to work, there is assumed behavior by the processor to which packets are punted. I could not find where this normative behavior is described explicitly. It appears that the behavior requires that the node "punt processor" look past the SRH and make determinations based on the content. This needs to be described explicitly. And it needs some discussion of why it is legitimate to look past the SRH when the SRH does not show SL=0. Yours, Joel On 12/4/2019 3:53 PM, Ole Troan wrote: > Hello, > > As agreed in the working group session in Singapore, this message starts a new two week 6MAN Working Group Last Call on advancing: > > Title : Operations, Administration, and Maintenance (OAM) in Segment Routing Networks with IPv6 Data plane (SRv6) > Author : Z. Ali, C. Filsfils, S. Matsushima, D. Voyer, M. Chen > Filename : draft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6-oam-02 > Pages : 23 > Date : 2019-11-20 > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6-oam/ > > as a Proposed Standard. > > Substantive comments and statements of support for publishing this document should be directed to the mailing list. > Editorial suggestions can be sent to the author. This last call will end on the 18th of December 2019. > > To improve document quality and ensure that bugs are caught as early as possible, we would require at least > two reviewers to do a complete review of the document. Please let the chairs know if you are willing to be a reviewer. > > The last call will be forwarded to the spring working group, with discussion directed to the ipv6 list. > > Thanks, > Bob & Ole, 6man co-chairs > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > From nobody Wed Dec 4 19:11:56 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CD69120133 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2019 19:11:55 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id l_tJCodrUu0a for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2019 19:11:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8E368120077 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2019 19:11:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from LHREML710-CAH.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.107]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 2516C9C33DCE1A1A6D0A for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 03:11:50 +0000 (GMT) Received: from lhreml713-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.64) by LHREML710-CAH.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.33) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 03:11:49 +0000 Received: from lhreml713-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.64) by lhreml713-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.64) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256) id 15.1.1713.5; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 03:11:49 +0000 Received: from DGGEML406-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.3.17.50) by lhreml713-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.64) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_0, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA) id 15.1.1713.5 via Frontend Transport; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 03:11:48 +0000 Received: from DGGEML532-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.8.251]) by dggeml406-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.3.17.50]) with mapi id 14.03.0439.000; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 11:11:40 +0800 From: "Pengshuping (Peng Shuping)" To: "spring@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Minutes for SPRING sessions at IETF 106 Singapore Thread-Index: AdWrGPNk5pbMCpyPQKacqeXo2eeQrw== Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 03:11:40 +0000 Message-ID: <4278D47A901B3041A737953BAA078ADE14B1308F@DGGEML532-MBX.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.130.169.124] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_4278D47A901B3041A737953BAA078ADE14B1308FDGGEML532MBXchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: [spring] Minutes for SPRING sessions at IETF 106 Singapore X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2019 03:11:55 -0000 --_000_4278D47A901B3041A737953BAA078ADE14B1308FDGGEML532MBXchi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, The minutes for the two SPRING sessions at IETF 106 can be found at: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/106/materials/minutes-106-spring-01.tx= t Please let me know if any changes may be needed. Thank you! Regards, Shuping --_000_4278D47A901B3041A737953BAA078ADE14B1308FDGGEML532MBXchi_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi all,

 

The minutes for the two SPRING sessions at IETF 1= 06 can be found at:

 

https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/1= 06/materials/minutes-106-spring-01.txt

 

Please let me know if any changes may be needed. Tha= nk you!

 

Regards,

Shuping

 

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b=SAwTclfJaeAieXkYP8KftZOC/baV1ZJny7uHCl9GguV3rN9H2Vbx36iSdV26NhtfkwBZCDIletA68Ux3QtB3nObxIxu/gA79F1oTdfb5d+KUsFHsPL3Kj2/dWBh2WomBHSRSD1WqeI90ekpkBaB4raXCdj+blCiS6WDmDY7dxNI= Received: from BN7PR11MB2594.namprd11.prod.outlook.com (52.135.246.159) by BN7PR11MB2739.namprd11.prod.outlook.com (52.135.252.140) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.2516.14; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 16:50:03 +0000 Received: from BN7PR11MB2594.namprd11.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::c72:fa12:757e:cca3]) by BN7PR11MB2594.namprd11.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::c72:fa12:757e:cca3%5]) with mapi id 15.20.2516.014; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 16:50:03 +0000 From: "Darren Dukes (ddukes)" To: Ron Bonica CC: SPRING WG , 6man <6man@ietf.org> Thread-Topic: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping Thread-Index: AdWqwAHVKZEn9oMNQKewBt9OvTlYXgAzAekA Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 16:50:03 +0000 Message-ID: <3AD3BD11-8C34-41FE-B88F-49A9F2561D78@cisco.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: 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16ec5ca7-cd61-4b29-0b66-08d779a32cbb X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 05 Dec 2019 16:50:03.1481 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5ae1af62-9505-4097-a69a-c1553ef7840e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: WqfUbZrGlQEYWhsNnp1GJwhjUfHO2rpXDy2icRTDGgDl6aMRptyikCCAlhHy6wW2xgvbsf5zvqoJtqz/38S/Gw== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN7PR11MB2739 X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.36.7.23, xch-aln-013.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-2.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2019 16:50:09 -0000 --_000_3AD3BD118C3441FEB88F49A9F2561D78ciscocom_ 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Thu Dec 5 08:50:22 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D40F112097A; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 08:50:17 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fYBvSN4QrWqP; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 08:50:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from relais-inet.orange.com (relais-inet.orange.com [80.12.66.39]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 80C521209B2; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 08:50:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from opfedar01.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.2]) by opfedar21.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 47TMCW2H4pz7tQB; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 17:50:15 +0100 (CET) Received: from Exchangemail-eme6.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.13.76]) by opfedar01.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 47TMCW1QdGzBrLP; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 17:50:15 +0100 (CET) Received: from OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::b846:2467:1591:5d9d]) by OPEXCAUBM7E.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0468.000; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 17:50:15 +0100 From: To: 'SPRING WG List' , draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming Thread-Topic: IPR poll for draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming Thread-Index: AdWri8PrYNknLVMMSPK3l23i6uOM3w== Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 16:50:14 +0000 Message-ID: <26660_1575564615_5DE93547_26660_39_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D1A2A9@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.247] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: [spring] IPR poll for draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2019 16:50:20 -0000 Hi SPRING WG, In parallel to the WGLC for draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming, we = would like to poll for IPR. If you are aware of IPR that applies to draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-prog= ramming [1] please respond to this email. If you are aware of IPR, please i= ndicate whether it has been disclosed in accordance with IETF IPR rules (RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378= provide more details). If you are an *author or contributor* please respond to this email regardle= ss of whether or not you're aware of any IPR.=20 This document will not advance until IPR confirmations have been received f= rom all authors and contributors. Thank you, Bruno [1] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-= 05 ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el= ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been = modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. From nobody Thu Dec 5 09:15:36 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE57C120091; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 09:15:30 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zmmwmXw5QBGo; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 09:15:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from relais-inet.orange.com (relais-inet.orange.com [80.12.70.36]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 05CF7120090; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 09:15:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from opfednr04.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.68]) by opfednr25.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 47TMmb2X8TzCrCV; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 18:15:27 +0100 (CET) Received: from Exchangemail-eme6.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.13.54]) by opfednr04.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 47TMmb20hyz1xp4; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 18:15:27 +0100 (CET) Received: from OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::b846:2467:1591:5d9d]) by OPEXCAUBM7D.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0468.000; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 18:15:27 +0100 From: To: 'SPRING WG List' CC: "6man@ietf.org" <6man@ietf.org>, draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming Thread-Topic: WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming Thread-Index: AdWrjZKMyJw/FcG0Qj29O28HuDn7+w== Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 17:15:26 +0000 Message-ID: <17421_1575566127_5DE93B2F_17421_93_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D1A3DA@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.247] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D1A3DAOPEXCAUBM43corp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2019 17:15:31 -0000 --_000_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D1A3DAOPEXCAUBM43corp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello SPRING, This email starts a two weeks Working Group Last Call on draft-ietf-spring-= srv6-network-programming [1]. Please read this document if you haven't read the most recent version, and = send your comments to the SPRING WG list, no later than December 20. You may copy the 6MAN WG for IPv6 related comment, but consider not duplica= ting emails on the 6MAN mailing list for the comments which are only spring= specifics. If you are raising a point which you expect will be specifically debated on= the mailing list, consider using a specific email/thread for this point. This may help avoiding that the thread become specific to this point and th= at other points get forgotten (or that the thread get converted into parall= el independent discussions) Thank you, Bruno [1] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-= 05 ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el= ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been = modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. --_000_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D1A3DAOPEXCAUBM43corp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 
Hello SPRING,
 
This email star=
ts a two weeks Working Group Last Call on draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-pr=
ogramming [1].
 
Please read thi=
s document if you haven't read the most recent version, and send your comme=
nts to the SPRING WG list, no later than December 20.

 


You may copy th=
e 6MAN WG for IPv6 related comment, but consider not duplicating emails on =
the 6MAN mailing list for the comments which are only spring specifics.


 


If you are rais=
ing a point which you expect will be specifically debated on the mailing li=
st, consider using a specific email/thread for this point.


This may help a=
voiding that the thread become specific to this point and that other points=
 get forgotten (or that the thread get converted into parallel independent =
discussions)


 


Thank you,=



Bruno


 


[1] =
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-05


 


 


______________________________________________________________________=
___________________________________________________

Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden=
tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu=
 ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el=
ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou =
falsifie. Merci.

This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf=
ormation that may be protected by law;
they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele=
te this message and its attachments.
As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been =
modified, changed or falsified.
Thank you.
--_000_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D1A3DAOPEXCAUBM43corp_-- From nobody Thu Dec 5 09:27:05 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD5511209A4 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 09:27:02 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ctwg8zDJaLzC for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 09:27:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from relais-inet.orange.com (relais-inet.orange.com [80.12.66.39]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 29B761209A3 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 09:27:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from opfedar05.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.7]) by opfedar26.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 47TN1w0KfczFqH8 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 18:27:00 +0100 (CET) Received: from Exchangemail-eme6.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.13.89]) by opfedar05.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 47TN1v6kGhz2xC0 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 18:26:59 +0100 (CET) Received: from OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::b846:2467:1591:5d9d]) by OPEXCAUBM44.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0468.000; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 18:26:59 +0100 From: To: 'SPRING WG List' Thread-Topic: IETF WG state changed for draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming Thread-Index: AQHVq5DkynRJ6dnqNEmznNze/muq7aeryvZQ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 17:26:59 +0000 Message-ID: <9156_1575566819_5DE93DE3_9156_27_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D1A4CD@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <157556668603.16482.9218616535141386078.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <157556668603.16482.9218616535141386078.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.247] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: [spring] FW: IETF WG state changed for draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2019 17:27:03 -0000 DQotLS0tLU9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLQ0KRnJvbTogSUVURiBTZWNyZXRhcmlhdCBbbWFp bHRvOmlldGYtc2VjcmV0YXJpYXQtcmVwbHlAaWV0Zi5vcmddIA0KU2VudDogVGh1cnNkYXksIERl Y2VtYmVyIDUsIDIwMTkgNjoyNSBQTQ0KVG86IERFQ1JBRU5FIEJydW5vIFRHSS9PTE47IHNwcmlu Zy1jaGFpcnNAaWV0Zi5vcmc7IGRyYWZ0LWlldGYtc3ByaW5nLXNydjYtbmV0d29yay1wcm9ncmFt bWluZ0BpZXRmLm9yZw0KU3ViamVjdDogSUVURiBXRyBzdGF0ZSBjaGFuZ2VkIGZvciBkcmFmdC1p ZXRmLXNwcmluZy1zcnY2LW5ldHdvcmstcHJvZ3JhbW1pbmcNCg0KDQpUaGUgSUVURiBXRyBzdGF0 ZSBvZiBkcmFmdC1pZXRmLXNwcmluZy1zcnY2LW5ldHdvcmstcHJvZ3JhbW1pbmcgaGFzIGJlZW4N CmNoYW5nZWQgdG8gIkluIFdHIExhc3QgQ2FsbCIgZnJvbSAiV0cgRG9jdW1lbnQiIGJ5IEJydW5v IERlY3JhZW5lOg0KDQpodHRwczovL2RhdGF0cmFja2VyLmlldGYub3JnL2RvYy9kcmFmdC1pZXRm LXNwcmluZy1zcnY2LW5ldHdvcmstcHJvZ3JhbW1pbmcvDQoNCkNvbW1lbnQ6DQpJUFIgQ2FsbDoN Cmh0dHBzOi8vbWFpbGFyY2hpdmUuaWV0Zi5vcmcvYXJjaC9tc2cvc3ByaW5nLzQ1dmoxNVdhcEcx T3BFQ0VJZHdhUmJtNkppZw0KDQpXRyBMQzoNCmh0dHBzOi8vbWFpbGFyY2hpdmUuaWV0Zi5vcmcv YXJjaC9tc2cvc3ByaW5nL3RGSjc0MlA4OFFZaDlOczhOOTdnQzhCUFdBNA0KCl9fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18KCkNl IG1lc3NhZ2UgZXQgc2VzIHBpZWNlcyBqb2ludGVzIHBldXZlbnQgY29udGVuaXIgZGVzIGluZm9y bWF0aW9ucyBjb25maWRlbnRpZWxsZXMgb3UgcHJpdmlsZWdpZWVzIGV0IG5lIGRvaXZlbnQgZG9u YwpwYXMgZXRyZSBkaWZmdXNlcywgZXhwbG9pdGVzIG91IGNvcGllcyBzYW5zIGF1dG9yaXNhdGlv bi4gU2kgdm91cyBhdmV6IHJlY3UgY2UgbWVzc2FnZSBwYXIgZXJyZXVyLCB2ZXVpbGxleiBsZSBz aWduYWxlcgphIGwnZXhwZWRpdGV1ciBldCBsZSBkZXRydWlyZSBhaW5zaSBxdWUgbGVzIHBpZWNl cyBqb2ludGVzLiBMZXMgbWVzc2FnZXMgZWxlY3Ryb25pcXVlcyBldGFudCBzdXNjZXB0aWJsZXMg ZCdhbHRlcmF0aW9uLApPcmFuZ2UgZGVjbGluZSB0b3V0ZSByZXNwb25zYWJpbGl0ZSBzaSBjZSBt ZXNzYWdlIGEgZXRlIGFsdGVyZSwgZGVmb3JtZSBvdSBmYWxzaWZpZS4gTWVyY2kuCgpUaGlzIG1l c3NhZ2UgYW5kIGl0cyBhdHRhY2htZW50cyBtYXkgY29udGFpbiBjb25maWRlbnRpYWwgb3IgcHJp dmlsZWdlZCBpbmZvcm1hdGlvbiB0aGF0IG1heSBiZSBwcm90ZWN0ZWQgYnkgbGF3Owp0aGV5IHNo b3VsZCBub3QgYmUgZGlzdHJpYnV0ZWQsIHVzZWQgb3IgY29waWVkIHdpdGhvdXQgYXV0aG9yaXNh dGlvbi4KSWYgeW91IGhhdmUgcmVjZWl2ZWQgdGhpcyBlbWFpbCBpbiBlcnJvciwgcGxlYXNlIG5v dGlmeSB0aGUgc2VuZGVyIGFuZCBkZWxldGUgdGhpcyBtZXNzYWdlIGFuZCBpdHMgYXR0YWNobWVu dHMuCkFzIGVtYWlscyBtYXkgYmUgYWx0ZXJlZCwgT3JhbmdlIGlzIG5vdCBsaWFibGUgZm9yIG1l c3NhZ2VzIHRoYXQgaGF2ZSBiZWVuIG1vZGlmaWVkLCBjaGFuZ2VkIG9yIGZhbHNpZmllZC4KVGhh bmsgeW91LgoK From nobody Thu Dec 5 09:27:32 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8676D12099B; 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Thu, 05 Dec 2019 09:33:15 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <2D6036F2-DB4D-4C33-8569-B819E8D68690@bell.ca> In-Reply-To: <2D6036F2-DB4D-4C33-8569-B819E8D68690@bell.ca> From: Ahmed Bashandy Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 09:33:03 -0800 Message-ID: To: Daniel Voyer Cc: Bruno Decraene , SPRING WG List , draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000000254050598f853f8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] IPR poll for draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2019 17:33:19 -0000 --0000000000000254050598f853f8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable As a contributor, I am not aware of any undisclosed IPR that related to this document. Ahmed On Thu, Dec 5, 2019, 9:27 AM Voyer, Daniel wrote: > As co-author, I=E2=80=99m not aware of any undisclosed IPR that related t= o this > document. > > Thanks > dan > > =EF=BB=BFOn 2019-12-05, 11:50 AM, "spring on behalf of bruno.decraene@ora= nge.com" > wrote: > > Hi SPRING WG, > > In parallel to the WGLC for > draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming, we would like to poll for IPR= . > > If you are aware of IPR that applies to > draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming [1] please respond to this > email. If you are aware of IPR, please indicate whether it has been > disclosed in accordance with IETF IPR rules (RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 an= d > 5378 provide more details). > > If you are an *author or contributor* please respond to this email > regardless of whether or not you're aware of any IPR. > > This document will not advance until IPR confirmations have been > received from all authors and contributors. > > Thank you, > Bruno > > [1] > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-05 > > > > _________________________________________________________________________= ________________________________________________ > > Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations > confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc > pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous ave= z > recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler > a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les > messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, > Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, > deforme ou falsifie. Merci. > > This message and its attachments may contain confidential or > privileged information that may be protected by law; > they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. > If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender an= d > delete this message and its attachments. > As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have > been modified, changed or falsified. > Thank you. > > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- > External Email: Please use caution when opening links and attachments > / Courriel externe: Soyez prudent avec les liens et documents joints > > > > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > --0000000000000254050598f853f8 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
As a contributor,=C2=A0 I am not aware=C2=A0of any undisclosed IPR that related to this = document.

Ahmed=C2=A0
<= br>
On Thu, Dec 5, 2019, 9:27 AM Voyer, Daniel <daniel.voyer@bell.ca> wrote:
As co-author, I=E2=80=99m not aware of any undisclosed I= PR that related to this document.

Thanks
dan

=EF=BB=BFOn 2019-12-05, 11:50 AM, "spring on behalf of bruno.de= craene@orange.com" <spring-bounces@ietf.org on behalf = of bruno.decraene@orange.com> wrote:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Hi SPRING WG,

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 In parallel to the WGLC for draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-pr= ogramming, we would like to poll for IPR.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 If you are aware of IPR that applies to draft-ietf-spring-srv= 6-network-programming [1] please respond to this email. If you are aware of= IPR, please indicate whether it has been
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 disclosed in accordance with IETF IPR rules (RFCs 3979, 4879,= 3669 and 5378 provide more details).

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=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Thank you,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Bruno

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 [1] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-05=


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Thu, 5 Dec 2019 18:50:04 +0100 (CET) Received: from OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::b846:2467:1591:5d9d]) by OPEXCAUBM8F.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0468.000; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 18:50:04 +0100 From: To: 'SPRING WG List' , draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming Thread-Topic: WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming Thread-Index: AdWrjZKMyJw/FcG0Qj29O28HuDn7+wAA95EA Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 17:50:04 +0000 Message-ID: <2746_1575568205_5DE9434D_2746_264_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D1A655@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <17421_1575566127_5DE93B2F_17421_93_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D1A3DA@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: <17421_1575566127_5DE93B2F_17421_93_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D1A3DA@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.247] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D1A655OPEXCAUBM43corp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2019 17:50:10 -0000 --_000_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D1A655OPEXCAUBM43corp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi authors, As an individual contributor, please find below some comments. =D8 S03. Send an ICMP Parameter Problem message to the Source Addre= ss Code TBD-SRH (SR Upper-layer Header Error), If TBD-SRH is defined in another document, please reference it in this text= and add a normative reference. Otherwise, please add this in the IANA consideration section of this docume= nt. -- As a general comment, I find that there is a lack of normative keywords. Pl= ease check for "should", "cannot", "can", "can't", shouldn't", "should not"= ... and please consider using normative keyworks. e.g., "an End SID cannot be the last SID of a SID list and cannot be the DA of a = packet without an SRH" What about using "MUST NOT"? "Hence the Upper-layer header should never be processed." What about using "MUST NOT"? "any function can be attached to a local SID:" MAY? "The End.DX6 SID must be the last segment in a SR Policy" MUST? "the following must be done." MUST? "Any SID instance of the End.DX2V behavior must be associated with an L2 Ta= ble T. =BB MUST? .... --- =A7IANA consideration section - Do we need such large pools for both experimental and private us= e? - Do we need both an experimental and private pool? - Given that the range of code point is large and that we probably= want to foster innovation use without requiring heavy IETF process, I woul= d suggest having a FCFS range https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8126#section-4= .4 - When code points are set aside for Experimental Use, it's important to make clear any expected restrictions on experimental scope. For example, say whether it's acceptable to run experiments using those code points over the open Internet or whether such experiments should be confined to more closed environments. See [RFC6994] for an example of such considerations. https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8126#section-4.2 --- =A7IANA consideration section "documents should clearly identify the registry into which each value is to= be registered." https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8126#section-3 --- Nits: "Push a the MPLS label stack" :s/a the/the Thank you, Regards, --Bruno From: ipv6 [mailto:ipv6-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of bruno.decraene@orang= e.com Sent: Thursday, December 5, 2019 6:15 PM To: 'SPRING WG List' Cc: 6man@ietf.org; draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming Subject: WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming Hello SPRING, This email starts a two weeks Working Group Last Call on draft-ietf-spring-= srv6-network-programming [1]. Please read this document if you haven't read the most recent version, and = send your comments to the SPRING WG list, no later than December 20. You may copy the 6MAN WG for IPv6 related comment, but consider not duplica= ting emails on the 6MAN mailing list for the comments which are only spring= specifics. If you are raising a point which you expect will be specifically debated on= the mailing list, consider using a specific email/thread for this point. This may help avoiding that the thread become specific to this point and th= at other points get forgotten (or that the thread get converted into parall= el independent discussions) Thank you, Bruno [1] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-= 05 ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el= ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been = modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el= ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been = modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. --_000_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D1A655OPEXCAUBM43corp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi authors,

 

As an individual contributor, please find below some comments.

 

 

=D8    S03.      Send an ICMP Parameter Problem message to the Source Address

 &n= bsp;             Code TBD-SRH (SR Upper-layer Header Error),

 

If TBD-SRH is defin= ed in another document, please reference it in this text and add a normative reference.

Otherwise, please add this in the IANA consideration section of this document.

--

As a general comment, I find that there is a lack of normative keywords. Please check for “should”, &#= 8220;cannot”, “can”, “can’t”, shouldn&#= 8217;t”, “should not”… and please consider using no= rmative keyworks.

 

e.g.,

“an End SID cannot be the last SID = of a SID list and cannot be the DA of a packet without an SRH”

What about using “MUST NOT”?

 

“<=
span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Hence the Upper-layer=
 header should never be processed.”

What about using “MUST NOT”?

 

“<=
span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">any function can be a=
ttached to a local SID:”
MAY?

 

“<=
span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">The End.DX6 SID must =
be the last segment in a SR Policy”
MUST?
 

“the following must be done.”= 

MUST?

 

“<=
span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Any SID instance of t=
he End.DX2V behavior must be associated with an L2 Table T. =BB
MUST?

 

….

 

---

=A7IANA consideration section

 

- &nb= sp;        Do we need such large pools for both experimental and private use?

- &nb= sp;        Do we need both an experimental and private pool?

- &nb= sp;        Given that the range of code point is large and that we probably want to foster innovation use without requir= ing heavy IETF process, I would suggest having a FCFS range https://tools.i= etf.org/html/rfc8126#section-4.4

- &nb= sp;         

 

 &n= bsp; When code points are set aside for Experimental Use, it's important<= o:p>

 &n= bsp; to make clear any expected restrictions on experimental scope.  For

 &n= bsp; example, say whether it's acceptable to run experiments using those<= o:p>

 &n= bsp;code points over the open Internet or whether such experiments should

 &n= bsp; be confined to more closed environments.  See [RFC6994] for an

 &n= bsp; example of such considerations.

 

https:/= /tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8126#section-4.2

 

 

---

=A7IANA consideration section

 

“<=
span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">documents should clea=
rly identify the registry into which each value is to be registered.”=

https://t= ools.ietf.org/html/rfc8126#section-3

---

 

 

Nits:

“Push a the MPLS label stack”=

:s/a the/the

 

 

Thank you,

Regards,

--Bruno

 

 

 

= From: ipv6 [mailto:ipv6-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of bruno.decraene@ora= nge.com
Sent: Thursday, December 5, 2019 6:15 PM
To: 'SPRING WG List'
Cc: 6man@ietf.org; draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming
Subject: WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming

 

Hello SPRING,
 
This email starts a two weeks Working Group Last Call on draf=
t-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming [1].
 
Please read this document if you haven't read the most recent=
 version, and send your comments to the SPRING WG list, no later than Decem=
ber 20.
 
You may copy the 6MAN WG for IPv6 related comment, but consid=
er not duplicating emails on the 6MAN mailing list for the comments which a=
re only spring specifics.
 
If you are raising a point which you expect will be specifica=
lly debated on the mailing list, consider using a specific email/thread for=
 this point.
This may help avoiding that the thread become specific to thi=
s point and that other points get forgotten (or that the thread get convert=
ed into parallel independent discussions)
 
Thank you,
Bruno
 
[1] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-=
srv6-network-programming-05
 

 

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--_000_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D1A655OPEXCAUBM43corp_-- From nobody Thu Dec 5 11:05:17 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9A37120255 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 11:05:14 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=raszuk.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eLt5g3H7p2SB for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 11:05:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qk1-x729.google.com (mail-qk1-x729.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::729]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6681A120232 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 11:05:10 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qk1-x729.google.com with SMTP id d124so4285512qke.6 for ; Thu, 05 Dec 2019 11:05:10 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=raszuk.net; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=rB0QpFS2tOMJzxLeDXaKCWWsv19aMNiH89myaBXATEk=; b=KHx9YzqIIJ8l2D9kWxw28Gwkeh4tYSoe+CBawMUY0cOkfRviUao3LXmxfNbIt7KQs8 0zpZza+VkDaVfgwXywO7fbGh+GwnXavNIWnYNi960HUqqmUOtengJ49HjLuX8rlaoxKN yn/QpP6GlSHI8Az2bDE3L2elKwzPuhKdrPVJ7AHCdhCpEiCNwdYfZGE/j7KB8sMDjnjq qQE3O2kaD7hT5dOA0iRClYEDYzoYOIROG5S9pYdIrvAnj3vZLFea97G0rrdXn/jsGxEH AERwF/ElEz6m5AgySHNGbZeiY7oSkSHt/WcD2CwYcFkizEqhIKqQtbfNeXs39edenkh+ TrCA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=rB0QpFS2tOMJzxLeDXaKCWWsv19aMNiH89myaBXATEk=; b=kQI6m9RYZJsag+kOcPu+G1RymEKQrO3xk816xZgMKeTSGZ28V8UYtK+xYc5bsQP8rG WgfVK9ybcGkGNaRJGt/ZYvA0Ekj4yUkgJouUjaFQ4cIku0jD7FnRFIpngTw6N0ODdEMo TBYBDJTGLjEGxXrtk4XC+l1nmdTI1GMeZp8rtLIoUSoJ8wFj83OipkwG08xmTGo2YUKu TUIBth0XITaoOY8OCmQC6V7Z/CAsVR0076GQqeVNydP5cr7b+uxhQjY2lqE/Jv8yIQAH WrLUHB+xOVPB3743/Y2Y0mRN/1YPWYc1sahQOTLfHZZR2UZ2KEQLZPPpAUfSKTvxWBt9 DJgw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUNwTaOyhMtjQX4KdYpBfmc2Lv2bXxdz3AAe+I3e03ziHLbr01W nHkU6wfbJ854MaGE5fh6SRa3ZYYiqc/kRbQ6LaE04w== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwu2lC5MIebdp/yMBpomcp0mZ249XNeu79U5R9IG54Ernh2LeMLPfqnFkGqjWlgZH40YPbr+dZIW9lDUVkP4iw= X-Received: by 2002:a37:62d2:: with SMTP id w201mr9450328qkb.445.1575572709143; Thu, 05 Dec 2019 11:05:09 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <26660_1575564615_5DE93547_26660_39_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D1A2A9@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: <26660_1575564615_5DE93547_26660_39_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D1A2A9@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> From: Robert Raszuk Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 20:05:01 +0100 Message-ID: To: Bruno Decraene Cc: SPRING WG List , draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000a592550598f99ba4" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] IPR poll for draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2019 19:05:15 -0000 --000000000000a592550598f99ba4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi As a contributor, I=E2=80=99m not aware of any undisclosed IPR(s) related t= o this document. Thanks, R. On Thu, Dec 5, 2019 at 5:50 PM wrote: > Hi SPRING WG, > > In parallel to the WGLC for draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming, w= e > would like to poll for IPR. > > If you are aware of IPR that applies to > draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming [1] please respond to this > email. If you are aware of IPR, please indicate whether it has been > disclosed in accordance with IETF IPR rules (RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and > 5378 provide more details). > > If you are an *author or contributor* please respond to this email > regardless of whether or not you're aware of any IPR. > > This document will not advance until IPR confirmations have been received > from all authors and contributors. > > Thank you, > Bruno > > [1] > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-05 > > > > _________________________________________________________________________= ________________________________________________ > > Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations > confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc > pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez > recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler > a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages > electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, > Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme o= u > falsifie. Merci. > > This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged > information that may be protected by law; > they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. > If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and > delete this message and its attachments. > As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have bee= n > modified, changed or falsified. > Thank you. > > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > --000000000000a592550598f99ba4 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi

As a contributor, I=E2=80=99m not aware of any u= ndisclosed IPR(s) related to this document.

Thanks,=C2=A0
R.=C2= =A0

On Thu, Dec 5, 2019 at 5:50 PM <bruno.decraene@orange.com> wrote:
Hi SPRING WG,

In parallel to the WGLC for draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming, we = would like to poll for IPR.

If you are aware of IPR that applies to draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-prog= ramming [1] please respond to this email. If you are aware of IPR, please i= ndicate whether it has been
disclosed in accordance with IETF IPR rules (RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378= provide more details).

If you are an *author or contributor* please respond to this email regardle= ss of whether or not you're aware of any IPR.

This document will not advance until IPR confirmations have been received f= rom all authors and contributors.

Thank you,
Bruno

[1] https://tools.ietf.org/= html/draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-05


___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________

Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les message= s electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci.

This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law;
they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments.
As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been = modified, changed or falsified.
Thank you.

_______________________________________________
spring mailing list
spring@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
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boundary="_000_BN7PR05MB569946D6AA5C6B78AFC05F6BAE5C0BN7PR05MB5699namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 6be4a8ae-a4af-4425-d3d6-08d779c33271 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 05 Dec 2019 20:39:16.6839 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: m+po31uOkRbAeMinIPzKoLJBdSBEo0GIMD5YiBSdZlYtzYarfshFYH48Mpt8LgDM4nq2thoc6ASJIvvQuJzMcw== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN7PR05MB4212 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.95,18.0.572 definitions=2019-12-05_08:2019-12-04,2019-12-05 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_spam_notspam policy=outbound_spam score=0 priorityscore=1501 lowpriorityscore=0 impostorscore=0 bulkscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 mlxscore=0 suspectscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1015 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-1910280000 definitions=main-1912050169 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2019 20:39:25 -0000 --_000_BN7PR05MB569946D6AA5C6B78AFC05F6BAE5C0BN7PR05MB5699namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Darren, I understand that the PSP operation: * Is executed on the penultimate segment endpoint only * Is signaled by the source node using bits in the IPv6 destination add= ress However, those facts are orthogonal to the question that I asked. So, I wil= l try to ask my question again. Please read it carefully and answer the que= stion that is asked. (Dismissive responses will only make me grumpier.) Currently, there is no consensus that IPv6 allows insertion of extension he= aders by intermediate nodes, even if those intermediate nodes are segment e= ndpoints . Given this lack of consensus, the authors of network programming= have wisely agreed to remove header insertion from the draft. Likewise, there is no consensus that IPv6 allows removal of extension heade= rs by intermediate nodes, even if those intermediate nodes are segment endp= oints. Why, then, have the authors of network programming not agreed to rem= ove PSP from the draft? = Ron Juniper Business Use Only From: Darren Dukes (ddukes) Sent: Thursday, December 5, 2019 11:50 AM To: Ron Bonica Cc: SPRING WG ; 6man <6man@ietf.org> Subject: Re: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping Hello Ron, I believe this is the fifth time you have raised this comment in= 6man and/or spring. The comment has been addressed in earlier iterations. Let me recap. With the PSP behavior, the SRH is only removed by the node identified in th= e destination address field of the IPv6 header. That destination address was placed in the SRH by the SR Source node, fully= expecting the behavior. Thanks Darren Iterations: [2019-09-06] https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/7zMgIwEY9AipZCCGO= 9KnT2CGH3o [2019-09-27] https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/4_Slu3kkHwduZZPFJ= JmRUkmoTVo [2019-10-14] https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/u536YH4tv7kKRq_b9= _x9gBYpO9c [2019-10-21] https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/4pikRli_HSECun9Ab= wfpmOF5KLI [2019-12-04] https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/oDWLbRDqKCaF5Xa-Q= vKY6mk_D5E On Dec 4, 2019, at 11:37 AM, Ron Bonica > wrote: Pablo, It seems to me that the following are equally controversial: * A transit node inserting a Routing header * A transit node removing a Routing header We have agreed to move discussion of RH insertion out of the Network Progra= mming draft and into another draft. Shouldn't discussion of RH removal be t= reated similarly. This comment applies to Penultimate Segment Popping (PHP) in the Network Pr= ogramming draft. Ron Juniper Business Use Only -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- --_000_BN7PR05MB569946D6AA5C6B78AFC05F6BAE5C0BN7PR05MB5699namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Darren,

 

I understand that the PSP operation:

  • Is execute= d on the penultimate segment endpoint only
  • Is signaled by the source n= ode using bits in the IPv6 destination address

However, those facts are orthogonal to the question = that I asked. So, I will try to ask my question again. Please read it caref= ully and answer the question that is asked. (Dismissive responses will only= make me grumpier.)

 

Currently, there is no consensus that IPv6 allows in= sertion of extension headers by intermediate nodes, even if those intermedi= ate nodes are segment endpoints . Given this lack of consensus, the authors= of network programming have wisely agreed to remove header insertion from the draft.

 

Likewise, there is no consensus that IPv6 allows rem= oval of extension headers by intermediate nodes, even if those intermediate= nodes are segment endpoints. Why, then, have the authors of network progra= mming not agreed to remove PSP from the draft?

 

        &nbs= p;             =             &nb= sp;            =             &nb= sp;            =             &nb= sp;      Ron

 

 

 

 

Juniper Business Use Only

From: Darren Dukes (ddukes) <ddukes@cisco.= com>
Sent: Thursday, December 5, 2019 11:50 AM
To: Ron Bonica <rbonica@juniper.net>
Cc: SPRING WG <spring@ietf.org>; 6man <6man@ietf.org> Subject: Re: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping<= /o:p>

 

Hello Ron, I believe this is the fifth time you have= raised this comment in 6man and/or spring.
The comment has been addressed in earlier iterations. 

Let me recap.

With the PSP behavior, the SRH is only removed by the node identified in th= e destination address field of the IPv6 header.
 
That destination address was placed in the SRH by the SR Source node, fully= expecting the behavior.

 

Thanks

  Darren

 
Iterations:
[2019-09-06] https://mailar= chive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/7zMgIwEY9AipZCCGO9KnT2CGH3o
[2019-09-27] https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/4_= Slu3kkHwduZZPFJJmRUkmoTVo
[2019-10-14] https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/u5= 36YH4tv7kKRq_b9_x9gBYpO9c
[2019-10-21] https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/4p= ikRli_HSECun9AbwfpmOF5KLI
[2019-12-04] https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/oD= WLbRDqKCaF5Xa-QvKY6mk_D5E
 

 

On Dec 4, 2019, at 11:37 AM, Ron Bonica <rbonica=3D40juniper.net@= dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:

 

Pablo,

 

It seems to me that the following are equally contro= versial:

 

  • A transit node inserting a Routing header
  • A transit node removing a Routing header

 

We have agreed to move discussion of RH insertion ou= t of the Network Programming draft and into another draft. Shouldn’t = discussion of RH removal be treated similarly.

 

This comment applies to Penultimate Segment Popping = (PHP) in the Network Programming draft.

 

        &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;            &nb= sp;            =             &nb= sp;     Ron

 

 

Juniper Business Use= Only

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IETF IPv6 working group mailing list
ipv6@ietf.org
Administrative Requests: = https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i= pv6
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--_000_BN7PR05MB569946D6AA5C6B78AFC05F6BAE5C0BN7PR05MB5699namp_-- From nobody Thu Dec 5 12:51:32 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3886A120137; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 12:51:31 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8AxGYOoXxTGk; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 12:51:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from fgont.go6lab.si (fgont.go6lab.si [91.239.96.14]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DB9661200EF; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 12:51:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.4.77] (unknown [190.179.35.56]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by fgont.go6lab.si (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 680F48666C; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 21:51:25 +0100 (CET) To: "Darren Dukes (ddukes)" , Ron Bonica Cc: SPRING WG , 6man <6man@ietf.org> References: <3AD3BD11-8C34-41FE-B88F-49A9F2561D78@cisco.com> From: Fernando Gont Autocrypt: addr=fernando@gont.com.ar; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBE5so2gBEACzBQBLUy8nzgAzSZn6ViXT6TmZBFNYNqTpPRvTVtUqF6+tkI+IEd9N2E8p pXUXCd0W4dkxz6o7pagnK63m4QSueggvp881RVVHOF8oTSHOdnGxLfLeLNJFKE1FOutU3vod GK/wG/Fwzkv9MebdXpMlLV8nnJuAt66XGl/lU1JrNfrKO4SoYQi4TsB/waUQcygh7OR/PEO0 EttiU8kZUbZNv58WH+PAj/rdZCrgUSiGXiWUQQKShqKnJxLuAcTcg5YRwL8se/V6ciW0QR9i /sr52gSmLLbW5N3hAoO+nv1V/9SjJAUvzXu43k8sua/XlCXkqU7uLj41CRR72JeUZ4DQsYfP LfNPC98ZGTVxbWbFtLXxpzzDDT8i3uo7w1LJ2Ij/d5ezcARqw01HGljWWxnidUrjbTpxkJ9X EllcsH94mer728j/HKzC9OcTuz6WUBP3Crgl6Q47gY5ZIiF0lsmd9/wxbaq5NiJ+lGuBRZrD v0dQx9KmyI0/pH2AF8cW897/6ypvcyD/1/11CJcN+uAGIrklwJlVpRSbKbFtGC6In592lhu7 wnK8cgyP5cTU+vva9+g6P1wehi4bylXdlKc6mMphbtSA+T3WBNP557+mh3L62l4pGaEGidcZ DLYT2Ud18eAJmxU3HnM8P3iZZgeoK7oqgb53/eg96vkONXNIOwARAQABtCVGZXJuYW5kbyBH b250IDxmZ29udEBzaTZuZXR3b3Jrcy5jb20+iQJBBBMBAgArAhsjBQkSzAMABgsJCAcDAgYV CAIJCgsEFgIDAQIeAQIXgAUCTmylpQIZAQAKCRCuJQ1VHU50kv7wD/9fuNtTfxSLk3B3Hs3p ixTy8YXVjdkVwWlnJjFd7BOWmg7sI+LDhpjGfT6+ddOiwkumnvUZpObodj4ysH0i8c7P4C5t F9yu7WjklSlrB5Rth2CGChg5bKt541z2WHkFFxys9qBLmCSYDeKQkzLqhCjIUJizY2kOJ2GI MnSFDzJjhSFEh//oW830Y8fel1xnf/NVF+lBVtRMtMOfoWUqDjvP3sJ1G4zgkDCnF0CfncLx +hq2Mv26Uq9OTzvLH9aSQQ/f067BOkKAJKsfHdborX4E96ISTz57/4xECRSMr5dVsKVm4Y// uVIsb+L5z+a32FaiBZIAKDgnJO7Z8j6CV5e5yfuBTtX52Yi9HjYYqnYJGSDxYd6igD4bWu+7 xmJPHjkdqZgGV6dQIgiUfqkU+s5Cv350vK48CMaT/ZLo2BdsMhWsmaHmb+waePUMyq6E4E9x 9Js+EJb9ZiCfxS9exgieZQpet1L36IvhiwByvkQM009ywfa30JeMOltUtfLi5V06WQWsTzPL 5C+4cpkguSuAJVDTctjCA0moIeVDOpJ8WH9voQ4IeWapQnX35OIoj1jGJqqYdx65gc1ygbyx b8vw+pJ9E5GLse5TQnYifOWpXzX9053dtbwp/2OVhU4KLlzfCPCEsoTyfu9nIZxdI2PMwiL5 M85BfjX4NmwBLmPGoLkCDQRObKNoARAAqqXCkr250BchRDmi+05F5UQFgylUh10XTAJxBeaQ UNtdxZiZRm6jgomSrqeYtricM9t9K0qb4X2ZXmAMW8o8AYW3RrQHTjcBwMnAKzUIEXXWaLfG cid/ygmvWzIHgMDQKP+MUq1AGQrnvt/MRLvZLyczAV1RTXS58qNaxtaSpc3K/yrDozh/a4pu WcUsVvIkzyx43sqcwamDSBb6U8JFoZizuLXiARLLASgyHrrCedNIZdWSx0z0iHEpZIelA2ih AGLiSMtmtikVEyrJICgO81DkKNCbBbPg+7fi23V6M24+3syHk3IdQibTtBMxinIPyLFF0byJ aGm0fmjefhnmVJyCIl/FDkCHprVhTme57G2/WdoGnUvnT7mcwDRb8XY5nNRkOJsqqLPemKjz kx8mXdQbunXtX9bKyVgd1gIl+LLsxbdzRCch773UBVoortPdK3kMyLtZ4uMeDX3comjx+6VL bztUdJ1Zc9/njwVG8fgmQ+0Kj5+bzQfUY+MmX0HTXIx3B4R1I1a8QoOwi1N+iZNdewV5Zfq+ 29NlQLnVPjCRCKbaz9k6RJ2oIti55YUI6zSsL3lmlOXsRbXN5bRswFczkNSCJxJMlDiyAUIC WOay7ymzvgzPa+BY/mYn94vRaurDQ4/ljOfj6oqgfjts+dJev4Jj89vp8MQI3KJpZPEAEQEA AYkCJQQYAQIADwUCTmyjaAIbDAUJEswDAAAKCRCuJQ1VHU50km4xEACho45PZrUjY4Zl2opR DFNo5a6roTOPpgwO9PcBb3I5F8yX2Dnew+9OhgWXbBhAFq4DCx+9Gjs43Bn60qbZTDbLGJ/m 8N4PwEiq0e5MKceYcbetEdEUWhm5L6psU9ZZ82GR3UGxPXYe+oifEoJjOXQ39avf9S8p3yKP Diil0E79rn7LbJjMcgMLyjFg9SDoJ6pHLtniJoDhEAaSSgeV7Y745+gyMIdtQmrFHfqrFdjq D6G0HE+Z68ywc5KN67YxhvhBmSycs1ZSKAXv1zLDlXdmjHDHkU3xMcB+RkuiTba8yRFYwb/n j62CC4NhFTuIKOc4ta3dJsyXTGh/hO9UjWUnmAGfd0fnzTBZF8Qlnw/8ftx5lt4/O+eqY1EN RITScnPzXE/wMOlTtdkddQ+QN6xt6jyR2XtAIi7aAFHypIqA3lLI9hF9x+lj4UQ2yA9LqpoX 6URpPOd13JhAyDe47cwsP1u9Y+OBvQTVLSvw7Liu2b4KjqL4lx++VdBi7dXsjJ6kjIRjI6Lb WVpxe8LumMCuVDepTafBZ49gr7Fgc4F9ZSCo6ChgQNLn6WDzIkqFX+42KuHz90AHWhuW+KZR 1aJylERWeTcMCGUSBptd48KniWmD6kPKpzwoMkJtEXTuO2lVuborxzwuqOTNuYg9lWDl7zKt wPI9brGzquUHy4qRrA== Message-ID: Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 17:50:41 -0300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <3AD3BD11-8C34-41FE-B88F-49A9F2561D78@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2019 20:51:31 -0000 On 5/12/19 13:50, Darren Dukes (ddukes) wrote: > Hello Ron, I believe this is the fifth time you have raised this comment > in 6man and/or spring. > The comment has been addressed in earlier iterations.  > > Let me recap. > > With the PSP behavior, the SRH is only removed by the node identified in > the destination address field of the IPv6 header. The question if simple: If SRH is removed by the very node identified by the destination address when SL !=0, then that's a middlebox mangling with SRH, and not allowed by RFC8200.   > That destination address was placed in the SRH by the SR Source node, > fully expecting the behavior. Yes, SRv6 folks have expected insertion, too. However, we have an internet standard that forbids that (including removal by middleboxes), and hence that's not allowed -- unless you get consensus to update RFC8200. 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localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nK50J9vqxkr6; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 12:57:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from clarinet.employees.org (clarinet.employees.org [IPv6:2607:7c80:54:3::74]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 006DD1200EF; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 12:57:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from astfgl.hanazo.no (unknown [IPv6:2a01:79c:cebd:47d8:c5ba:f887:5271:a211]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by clarinet.employees.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 572E44E11AAA; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 20:57:03 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by astfgl.hanazo.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95BBC250DF0B; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 21:57:01 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.0 \(3601.0.10\)) From: otroan@employees.org In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 21:57:01 +0100 Cc: "Darren Dukes (ddukes)" , SPRING WG , 6man <6man@ietf.org> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <8DEDE597-B7B0-48F5-959E-69757315C2AC@employees.org> References: <3AD3BD11-8C34-41FE-B88F-49A9F2561D78@cisco.com> To: Ron Bonica X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3601.0.10) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2019 20:57:06 -0000 Ron, > Currently, there is no consensus that IPv6 allows insertion of = extension headers by intermediate nodes, even if those intermediate = nodes are segment endpoints . Given this lack of consensus, the authors = of network programming have wisely agreed to remove header insertion = from the draft. > =20 > Likewise, there is no consensus that IPv6 allows removal of extension = headers by intermediate nodes, even if those intermediate nodes are = segment endpoints. Why, then, have the authors of network programming = not agreed to remove PSP from the draft? With regards to working group process; may I gently remind you that it = is the chairs that call consensus. 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: ab387681-0e8b-44a8-6d30-08d779c68ff4 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 05 Dec 2019 21:03:22.0231 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: CZs9KbaA1Uolm2FQnImGLkzsO3PzQQYIw9p/8ej7mUzRdX0uFEzg69v+jBuv9LUQEB0Y4e4LCsFcqoiEE0Mwig== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN7PR05MB4081 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.95,18.0.572 definitions=2019-12-05_08:2019-12-04,2019-12-05 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_spam_notspam policy=outbound_spam score=0 impostorscore=0 spamscore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 bulkscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 phishscore=0 clxscore=1015 malwarescore=0 mlxscore=0 adultscore=0 suspectscore=0 priorityscore=1501 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-1910280000 definitions=main-1912050172 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] IETF WG state changed for draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2019 21:03:27 -0000 Bruno, Please record the following as last call comments: - https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/MQLQNTzdkfHNbpwP99FV8UqUofY - https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/trugWEW3n7Ubz7oayYwo6Qe_lGg - https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/wCcVWXqbjwZW9-pJmYgZ1gC8Xrk - https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/oDWLbRDqKCaF5Xa-QvKY6mk_D5E Ron Juniper Business Use Only -----Original Message----- From: spring On Behalf Of bruno.decraene@orange.c= om Sent: Thursday, December 5, 2019 12:27 PM To: 'SPRING WG List' Subject: [spring] FW: IETF WG state changed for draft-ietf-spring-srv6-netw= ork-programming -----Original Message----- From: IETF Secretariat [mailto:ietf-secretariat-reply@ietf.org]=20 Sent: Thursday, December 5, 2019 6:25 PM To: DECRAENE Bruno TGI/OLN; spring-chairs@ietf.org; draft-ietf-spring-srv6-= network-programming@ietf.org Subject: IETF WG state changed for draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programmi= ng The IETF WG state of draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming has been changed to "In WG Last Call" from "WG Document" by Bruno Decraene: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-spr= ing-srv6-network-programming/__;!8WoA6RjC81c!WvXo6gfIyoiXkNsWCTWF8ADUQUEdvT= b9refYJM48nbiW-TwsOyXgSgd-3meL5GH8$=20 Comment: IPR Call: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/45= vj15WapG1OpECEIdwaRbm6Jig__;!8WoA6RjC81c!WvXo6gfIyoiXkNsWCTWF8ADUQUEdvTb9re= fYJM48nbiW-TwsOyXgSgd-3gHRjqo3$=20 WG LC: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/tF= J742P88QYh9Ns8N97gC8BPWA4__;!8WoA6RjC81c!WvXo6gfIyoiXkNsWCTWF8ADUQUEdvTb9re= fYJM48nbiW-TwsOyXgSgd-3sU4j1XK$=20 ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el= ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been = modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. _______________________________________________ spring mailing list spring@ietf.org https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring__;= !8WoA6RjC81c!WvXo6gfIyoiXkNsWCTWF8ADUQUEdvTb9refYJM48nbiW-TwsOyXgSgd-3iZC0F= uA$=20 From nobody Thu Dec 5 13:05:22 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6CA61200F6; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 13:05:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.701 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.701 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=juniper.net header.b=FZpJI5CU; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=juniper.net header.b=ar1uIw8l Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Tz4q9gcx56iU; 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: cc4f0a6b-d2de-4a6f-79dc-08d779c6c94c X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 05 Dec 2019 21:04:58.2843 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: iT1lCyhOI6XPLAodtuEzBd6jqOt+NQwXaSkZO9Uv7QAAyTm5x9I0c8mFG5eAYolP3MRVsOXAftw1HTSVYHQDmw== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN7PR05MB4274 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.95,18.0.572 definitions=2019-12-05_08:2019-12-04,2019-12-05 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_spam_notspam policy=outbound_spam score=0 bulkscore=0 impostorscore=0 suspectscore=0 priorityscore=1501 mlxscore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 malwarescore=0 spamscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 phishscore=0 clxscore=1015 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-1910280000 definitions=main-1912050172 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2019 21:05:17 -0000 Ole, Point taken. Could you comment on the current state of WG consensus? Ron Juniper Business Use Only -----Original Message----- From: otroan@employees.org =20 Sent: Thursday, December 5, 2019 3:57 PM To: Ron Bonica Cc: Darren Dukes (ddukes) ; SPRING WG ; = 6man <6man@ietf.org> Subject: Re: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping Ron, > Currently, there is no consensus that IPv6 allows insertion of extension = headers by intermediate nodes, even if those intermediate nodes are segment= endpoints . Given this lack of consensus, the authors of network programmi= ng have wisely agreed to remove header insertion from the draft. > =20 > Likewise, there is no consensus that IPv6 allows removal of extension hea= ders by intermediate nodes, even if those intermediate nodes are segment en= dpoints. Why, then, have the authors of network programming not agreed to r= emove PSP from the draft? With regards to working group process; may I gently remind you that it is t= he chairs that call consensus. Best regards, Ole From nobody Thu Dec 5 13:10:03 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C7211201A3; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 13:10:02 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 45XsBJBaUWrZ; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 13:10:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from jax4mhob23.registeredsite.com (jax4mhob23.registeredsite.com [64.69.218.111]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 64392120168; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 13:10:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from atl4oxapp108 ([10.30.71.184]) by jax4mhob23.registeredsite.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id xB5L9tPh061470 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA256 bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 5 Dec 2019 16:09:55 -0500 Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 16:09:55 -0500 (EST) From: "john leddy.net" Reply-To: "john leddy.net" To: bruno.decraene@orange.com, SPRING WG List , draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming Message-ID: <911797645.635772.1575580195620@webmail.networksolutionsemail.com> In-Reply-To: <26660_1575564615_5DE93547_26660_39_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D1A2A9@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <26660_1575564615_5DE93547_26660_39_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D1A2A9@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 Importance: Medium X-Mailer: Open-Xchange Mailer v7.10.0-Rev28 X-Originating-Client: open-xchange-appsuite Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] IPR poll for draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2019 21:10:02 -0000 As co-author, I=E2=80=99m not aware of any undisclosed IPR that related to = this document. John Leddy > On December 5, 2019 at 11:50 AM bruno.decraene@orange.com wrote: >=20 >=20 > Hi SPRING WG, >=20 > In parallel to the WGLC for draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming, w= e would like to poll for IPR. >=20 > If you are aware of IPR that applies to draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-pr= ogramming [1] please respond to this email. If you are aware of IPR, please= indicate whether it has been > disclosed in accordance with IETF IPR rules (RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 53= 78 provide more details). >=20 > If you are an *author or contributor* please respond to this email regard= less of whether or not you're aware of any IPR.=20 >=20 > This document will not advance until IPR confirmations have been received= from all authors and contributors. >=20 > Thank you, > Bruno >=20 > [1] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programmin= g-05 >=20 >=20 > _________________________________________________________________________= ________________________________________________ >=20 > Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confid= entielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc > pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez re= cu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler > a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages = electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, > Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme o= u falsifie. Merci. >=20 > This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged i= nformation that may be protected by law; > they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. > If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and de= lete this message and its attachments. > As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have bee= n modified, changed or falsified. > Thank you. > From nobody Thu Dec 5 13:11:18 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BE011201A3; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 13:11:17 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, 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Thu, 5 Dec 2019 21:11:12 +0000 From: "Henderickx, Wim (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)" To: Robert Raszuk , Bruno Decraene CC: SPRING WG List , draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming Thread-Topic: [spring] IPR poll for draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming Thread-Index: AdWri8PrYNknLVMMSPK3l23i6uOM3wAEyDuAAAaAdoA= Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 21:11:11 +0000 Message-ID: References: <26660_1575564615_5DE93547_26660_39_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D1A2A9@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: nl-BE, en-US Content-Language: en-GB X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/10.20.0.191202 authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=wim.henderickx@nokia.com; x-originating-ip: [82.194.107.194] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-ht: Tenant x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 51284cb1-a8eb-403d-feba-08d779c7a80e x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: HE1PR0701MB2122: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: 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FFQjvxLEF5bXJRmWxq9Mz5cBu1OL1a1YxIgABog/YzpONE02S6efAO3wGGPoux5x5/qF/JbEZkpvSbmLM6rACHkrrls1c+a93x2mtgMlBqFR72H9ol4C0q/Tu8L8/6AydqjPg2pNvGAv6wePB0hvFmlmNZte0q1OrUYhinxrKQdmGD1odjzE6F+Gu0yaTRYdTlG9nEiqV5g3GFJdikeobbhlTIPE8U9G0bRqPvtVuCGKkUk7GsfGl/O/Re9AvERM9wz0b2QhoZ0mUSBpuZ5OpLxvRR/3HbWvTQI+xpCmhb1NEOiQgTD7BVb0kSS8BPgcjy3bR5YGGzDEhmJIvB2yfrV1pFgAKymhdL3mFly3sTXGIwyewDs4HOxo15aMECq/4rGzwcWa0BOEPyKAi2SWo7sZT3ytzSmamOvqCLlu23H/mfU0xke/fBrl8dG660oSSYa+KNDuCK/UdNZYs3P1bDz5H6Dcauufl5YoE5gdg4Q= x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_BN7PR05MB5699D8B0CC59254BFB0D572AAE5C0BN7PR05MB5699namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 7485ba4a-fa1d-4dc8-f27a-08d779c8104f X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 05 Dec 2019 21:14:06.8500 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: WWchfcuNMenMzkJKPSDOWBkzitd8o+6AqI02iXxQGRLY06qYfQ7GybKqEIlpzpTiZLtDW+EACzUiX5kO0uGiCQ== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN7PR05MB5857 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.95,18.0.572 definitions=2019-12-05_08:2019-12-04,2019-12-05 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_spam_notspam policy=outbound_spam score=0 mlxscore=0 bulkscore=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 clxscore=1011 spamscore=0 adultscore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 phishscore=0 priorityscore=1501 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-1910280000 definitions=main-1912050172 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2019 21:14:11 -0000 --_000_BN7PR05MB5699D8B0CC59254BFB0D572AAE5C0BN7PR05MB5699namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable < Responding to the right email this time > Bruno, Please record the following as last call comments: - https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/MQLQNTzdkfHNbpwP99FV8UqUofY - https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/trugWEW3n7Ubz7oayYwo6Qe_lGg - https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/wCcVWXqbjwZW9-pJmYgZ1gC8Xrk - https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/oDWLbRDqKCaF5Xa-QvKY6mk_D5E Ron Juniper Business Use Only From: ipv6 On Behalf Of bruno.decraene@orange.com Sent: Thursday, December 5, 2019 12:15 PM To: 'SPRING WG List' Cc: 6man@ietf.org; draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming Subject: WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming Hello SPRING, This email starts a two weeks Working Group Last Call on draft-ietf-spring-= srv6-network-programming [1]. Please read this document if you haven't read the most recent version, and = send your comments to the SPRING WG list, no later than December 20. You may copy the 6MAN WG for IPv6 related comment, but consider not duplica= ting emails on the 6MAN mailing list for the comments which are only spring= specifics. If you are raising a point which you expect will be specifically debated on= the mailing list, consider using a specific email/thread for this point. This may help avoiding that the thread become specific to this point and th= at other points get forgotten (or that the thread get converted into parall= el independent discussions) Thank you, Bruno [1] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-= 05 ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el= ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been = modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. --_000_BN7PR05MB5699D8B0CC59254BFB0D572AAE5C0BN7PR05MB5699namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

< Responding to the right email this time >

 

Bruno,

 

Please record the following as last call comments= :

 

- https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/MQLQNTzdkfHNbpwP99FV8UqUofY

- https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/trugWEW3n7Ubz7oayYwo6Qe_lGg

- https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/wCcVWXqbjwZW9-pJmYgZ1gC8Xrk

- https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/oDWLbRDqKCaF5Xa-QvKY6mk_D5E

 

 

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;             =             &nb= sp;    Ron

 

 

 

Juniper Business Use Only

From: ipv6 <ipv6-bounces@ietf.org> O= n Behalf Of bruno.decraene@orange.com
Sent: Thursday, December 5, 2019 12:15 PM
To: 'SPRING WG List' <spring@ietf.org>
Cc: 6man@ietf.org; draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming <dr= aft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming@ietf.org>
Subject: WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming

 

Hello SPRING,
 
This email starts a two weeks Working Group Last Call on draft-ietf-sp=
ring-srv6-network-programming [1].
 
Please read this document if you haven't read the most recent version,=
 and send your comments to the SPRING WG list, no later than December 20.
 
You may copy the 6MAN WG for IPv6 related comment, but consider not du=
plicating emails on the 6MAN mailing list for the comments which are only s=
pring specifics.
 
If you are raising a point which you expect will be specifically debat=
ed on the mailing list, consider using a specific email/thread for this poi=
nt.
This may help avoiding that the thread become specific to this point a=
nd that other points get forgotten (or that the thread get converted into p=
arallel independent discussions)
 
Thank you,
Bruno
 
[1] https://tools.ietf.org=
/html/draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-05
 

 

____________________________________________________=
_____________________________________________________________________<=
/o:p>
 
Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir de=
s informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisa=
tion. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces j=
ointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a =
ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci.
 
This message and its attachments may contain confide=
ntial or privileged information that may be protected by law;
they should not be distributed, used or copied witho=
ut authorisation.
If you have received this email in error, please not=
ify the sender and delete this message and its attachments.
As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for m=
essages that have been modified, changed or falsified.

Thank you.
--_000_BN7PR05MB5699D8B0CC59254BFB0D572AAE5C0BN7PR05MB5699namp_-- From nobody Thu Dec 5 13:16:20 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C2D812008D; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 13:16:14 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MN6GHQawwyh1; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 13:16:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from clarinet.employees.org (clarinet.employees.org [198.137.202.74]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A1D70120073; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 13:16:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from astfgl.hanazo.no (unknown [IPv6:2a01:79c:cebd:47d8:c5ba:f887:5271:a211]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by clarinet.employees.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id F16C94E11AFF; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 21:16:11 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by astfgl.hanazo.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF273250EE68; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 22:16:09 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.0 \(3601.0.10\)) From: otroan@employees.org In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 22:16:09 +0100 Cc: "Darren Dukes (ddukes)" , SPRING WG , 6man <6man@ietf.org> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <4FAB68A3-C533-471D-94D0-3F6EB1F32FC1@employees.org> References: <3AD3BD11-8C34-41FE-B88F-49A9F2561D78@cisco.com> <8DEDE597-B7B0-48F5-959E-69757315C2AC@employees.org> To: Ron Bonica X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3601.0.10) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2019 21:16:15 -0000 Ron, > Point taken. Could you comment on the current state of WG consensus? The working group session in Singapore ended with what appeared to be a = view that we should continue work on both documents (Mark's and the = Voyer draft). For the state of the wg consensus, I haven't checked with Bob, but I = think he will agree with it being classified as "evolving". Best regards, Ole= From nobody Thu Dec 5 13:24:04 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 860E81200EF; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 13:24:01 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xLGJWB3gZr9m; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 13:23:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from fgont.go6lab.si (fgont.go6lab.si [91.239.96.14]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EF0FE120073; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 13:23:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.4.77] (unknown [190.179.35.56]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by fgont.go6lab.si (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 023F182DFA; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 22:23:52 +0100 (CET) To: otroan@employees.org, Ron Bonica Cc: SPRING WG , 6man <6man@ietf.org>, rtg-ads , "int-ads@ietf.org" , Suresh Krishnan References: <3AD3BD11-8C34-41FE-B88F-49A9F2561D78@cisco.com> <8DEDE597-B7B0-48F5-959E-69757315C2AC@employees.org> From: Fernando Gont Autocrypt: addr=fgont@si6networks.com; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBE5so2gBEACzBQBLUy8nzgAzSZn6ViXT6TmZBFNYNqTpPRvTVtUqF6+tkI+IEd9N2E8p pXUXCd0W4dkxz6o7pagnK63m4QSueggvp881RVVHOF8oTSHOdnGxLfLeLNJFKE1FOutU3vod GK/wG/Fwzkv9MebdXpMlLV8nnJuAt66XGl/lU1JrNfrKO4SoYQi4TsB/waUQcygh7OR/PEO0 EttiU8kZUbZNv58WH+PAj/rdZCrgUSiGXiWUQQKShqKnJxLuAcTcg5YRwL8se/V6ciW0QR9i /sr52gSmLLbW5N3hAoO+nv1V/9SjJAUvzXu43k8sua/XlCXkqU7uLj41CRR72JeUZ4DQsYfP LfNPC98ZGTVxbWbFtLXxpzzDDT8i3uo7w1LJ2Ij/d5ezcARqw01HGljWWxnidUrjbTpxkJ9X EllcsH94mer728j/HKzC9OcTuz6WUBP3Crgl6Q47gY5ZIiF0lsmd9/wxbaq5NiJ+lGuBRZrD v0dQx9KmyI0/pH2AF8cW897/6ypvcyD/1/11CJcN+uAGIrklwJlVpRSbKbFtGC6In592lhu7 wnK8cgyP5cTU+vva9+g6P1wehi4bylXdlKc6mMphbtSA+T3WBNP557+mh3L62l4pGaEGidcZ DLYT2Ud18eAJmxU3HnM8P3iZZgeoK7oqgb53/eg96vkONXNIOwARAQABtCVGZXJuYW5kbyBH b250IDxmZ29udEBzaTZuZXR3b3Jrcy5jb20+iQJBBBMBAgArAhsjBQkSzAMABgsJCAcDAgYV CAIJCgsEFgIDAQIeAQIXgAUCTmylpQIZAQAKCRCuJQ1VHU50kv7wD/9fuNtTfxSLk3B3Hs3p ixTy8YXVjdkVwWlnJjFd7BOWmg7sI+LDhpjGfT6+ddOiwkumnvUZpObodj4ysH0i8c7P4C5t F9yu7WjklSlrB5Rth2CGChg5bKt541z2WHkFFxys9qBLmCSYDeKQkzLqhCjIUJizY2kOJ2GI MnSFDzJjhSFEh//oW830Y8fel1xnf/NVF+lBVtRMtMOfoWUqDjvP3sJ1G4zgkDCnF0CfncLx +hq2Mv26Uq9OTzvLH9aSQQ/f067BOkKAJKsfHdborX4E96ISTz57/4xECRSMr5dVsKVm4Y// uVIsb+L5z+a32FaiBZIAKDgnJO7Z8j6CV5e5yfuBTtX52Yi9HjYYqnYJGSDxYd6igD4bWu+7 xmJPHjkdqZgGV6dQIgiUfqkU+s5Cv350vK48CMaT/ZLo2BdsMhWsmaHmb+waePUMyq6E4E9x 9Js+EJb9ZiCfxS9exgieZQpet1L36IvhiwByvkQM009ywfa30JeMOltUtfLi5V06WQWsTzPL 5C+4cpkguSuAJVDTctjCA0moIeVDOpJ8WH9voQ4IeWapQnX35OIoj1jGJqqYdx65gc1ygbyx b8vw+pJ9E5GLse5TQnYifOWpXzX9053dtbwp/2OVhU4KLlzfCPCEsoTyfu9nIZxdI2PMwiL5 M85BfjX4NmwBLmPGoLkCDQRObKNoARAAqqXCkr250BchRDmi+05F5UQFgylUh10XTAJxBeaQ UNtdxZiZRm6jgomSrqeYtricM9t9K0qb4X2ZXmAMW8o8AYW3RrQHTjcBwMnAKzUIEXXWaLfG cid/ygmvWzIHgMDQKP+MUq1AGQrnvt/MRLvZLyczAV1RTXS58qNaxtaSpc3K/yrDozh/a4pu WcUsVvIkzyx43sqcwamDSBb6U8JFoZizuLXiARLLASgyHrrCedNIZdWSx0z0iHEpZIelA2ih AGLiSMtmtikVEyrJICgO81DkKNCbBbPg+7fi23V6M24+3syHk3IdQibTtBMxinIPyLFF0byJ aGm0fmjefhnmVJyCIl/FDkCHprVhTme57G2/WdoGnUvnT7mcwDRb8XY5nNRkOJsqqLPemKjz kx8mXdQbunXtX9bKyVgd1gIl+LLsxbdzRCch773UBVoortPdK3kMyLtZ4uMeDX3comjx+6VL bztUdJ1Zc9/njwVG8fgmQ+0Kj5+bzQfUY+MmX0HTXIx3B4R1I1a8QoOwi1N+iZNdewV5Zfq+ 29NlQLnVPjCRCKbaz9k6RJ2oIti55YUI6zSsL3lmlOXsRbXN5bRswFczkNSCJxJMlDiyAUIC WOay7ymzvgzPa+BY/mYn94vRaurDQ4/ljOfj6oqgfjts+dJev4Jj89vp8MQI3KJpZPEAEQEA AYkCJQQYAQIADwUCTmyjaAIbDAUJEswDAAAKCRCuJQ1VHU50km4xEACho45PZrUjY4Zl2opR DFNo5a6roTOPpgwO9PcBb3I5F8yX2Dnew+9OhgWXbBhAFq4DCx+9Gjs43Bn60qbZTDbLGJ/m 8N4PwEiq0e5MKceYcbetEdEUWhm5L6psU9ZZ82GR3UGxPXYe+oifEoJjOXQ39avf9S8p3yKP Diil0E79rn7LbJjMcgMLyjFg9SDoJ6pHLtniJoDhEAaSSgeV7Y745+gyMIdtQmrFHfqrFdjq D6G0HE+Z68ywc5KN67YxhvhBmSycs1ZSKAXv1zLDlXdmjHDHkU3xMcB+RkuiTba8yRFYwb/n j62CC4NhFTuIKOc4ta3dJsyXTGh/hO9UjWUnmAGfd0fnzTBZF8Qlnw/8ftx5lt4/O+eqY1EN RITScnPzXE/wMOlTtdkddQ+QN6xt6jyR2XtAIi7aAFHypIqA3lLI9hF9x+lj4UQ2yA9LqpoX 6URpPOd13JhAyDe47cwsP1u9Y+OBvQTVLSvw7Liu2b4KjqL4lx++VdBi7dXsjJ6kjIRjI6Lb WVpxe8LumMCuVDepTafBZ49gr7Fgc4F9ZSCo6ChgQNLn6WDzIkqFX+42KuHz90AHWhuW+KZR 1aJylERWeTcMCGUSBptd48KniWmD6kPKpzwoMkJtEXTuO2lVuborxzwuqOTNuYg9lWDl7zKt wPI9brGzquUHy4qRrA== Message-ID: <56973ebd-65aa-8892-a9ea-7191d5d18506@si6networks.com> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 18:23:34 -0300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <8DEDE597-B7B0-48F5-959E-69757315C2AC@employees.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2019 21:24:01 -0000 Ole, On 5/12/19 17:57, otroan@employees.org wrote: > Ron, > >> Currently, there is no consensus that IPv6 allows insertion of extension headers by intermediate nodes, even if those intermediate nodes are segment endpoints . Given this lack of consensus, the authors of network programming have wisely agreed to remove header insertion from the draft. >> >> Likewise, there is no consensus that IPv6 allows removal of extension headers by intermediate nodes, even if those intermediate nodes are segment endpoints. Why, then, have the authors of network programming not agreed to remove PSP from the draft? > > With regards to working group process; may I gently remind you that it is the chairs that call consensus. At the time of this writing, there's no document that has been adopted to update RFC8200 to allow for EH insertion/removal. Therefore, it's actually the other way around: unless there's such document (which there isn't, since such a document has never been adopted by 6man), the onus is on folks trying to change the status quo. And that case, progressing the document "as is" would be an outright violation of our existing standards. This has been repeated numerous times already. I think we are at a point where the ADs should take action. Most importantly Int-AD, since the spec being violated is RFC8200. Thanks, -- Fernando Gont SI6 Networks e-mail: fgont@si6networks.com PGP Fingerprint: 6666 31C6 D484 63B2 8FB1 E3C4 AE25 0D55 1D4E 7492 From nobody Thu Dec 5 13:32:36 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67B5712008D; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 13:32:29 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tevw-losowo0; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 13:32:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from fgont.go6lab.si (fgont.go6lab.si [91.239.96.14]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7D9DA120073; 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Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <4FAB68A3-C533-471D-94D0-3F6EB1F32FC1@employees.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: [spring] We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2019 21:32:29 -0000 Ole, On 5/12/19 18:16, otroan@employees.org wrote: > Ron, > >> Point taken. Could you comment on the current state of WG consensus? > > The working group session in Singapore ended with what appeared to be a view that we should continue work on both documents (Mark's and the Voyer draft). > For the state of the wg consensus, I haven't checked with Bob, but I think he will agree with it being classified as "evolving". I polled you about this decision (https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ipv6/12Qwp_eeQT2EmbUrSxBLL5HTcnM), and you never responded. Suresh (INT AD) clarified this one list, here: https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ipv6/Db6_SGfmeIDzaE56Ps5kUDCYEzY Suresh noted that there wasn't consensus call, even at the f2f meeting (not to mention that the list was never polled in this respect). I would say that it seems we have not been following the processes that should be followed. This has happened repeatedly over time, for this very same topic. The process seems to be biased, and thus unfair to the rest of the wg participants. Thanks, -- Fernando Gont SI6 Networks e-mail: fgont@si6networks.com PGP Fingerprint: 6666 31C6 D484 63B2 8FB1 E3C4 AE25 0D55 1D4E 7492 From nobody Thu Dec 5 13:41:45 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E7071120168; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 13:41:37 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SOW79Wp4QIXL; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 13:41:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from clarinet.employees.org (clarinet.employees.org [IPv6:2607:7c80:54:3::74]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4E32E1200EF; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 13:41:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from astfgl.hanazo.no (246.51-175-81.customer.lyse.net [51.175.81.246]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by clarinet.employees.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 968D64E11B71; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 21:41:35 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by astfgl.hanazo.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38EA8250FAE7; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 22:41:33 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.0 \(3601.0.10\)) From: otroan@employees.org In-Reply-To: <1e36a492-5931-02de-cf85-63339522b13a@si6networks.com> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 22:41:33 +0100 Cc: Ron Bonica , SPRING WG , 6man <6man@ietf.org>, "int-ads@ietf.org" , rtg-ads Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <3AD3BD11-8C34-41FE-B88F-49A9F2561D78@cisco.com> <8DEDE597-B7B0-48F5-959E-69757315C2AC@employees.org> <4FAB68A3-C533-471D-94D0-3F6EB1F32FC1@employees.org> <1e36a492-5931-02de-cf85-63339522b13a@si6networks.com> To: Fernando Gont X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3601.0.10) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2019 21:41:38 -0000 Fernando, >>> Point taken. Could you comment on the current state of WG consensus? >>=20 >> The working group session in Singapore ended with what appeared to be = a view that we should continue work on both documents (Mark's and the = Voyer draft). >> For the state of the wg consensus, I haven't checked with Bob, but I = think he will agree with it being classified as "evolving". >=20 > I polled you about this decision > = (https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ipv6/12Qwp_eeQT2EmbUrSxBLL5HTcnM), = and > you never responded. Sorry, which decision is that supposed to be? > Suresh (INT AD) clarified this one list, here: > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ipv6/Db6_SGfmeIDzaE56Ps5kUDCYEzY >=20 > Suresh noted that there wasn't consensus call, even at the f2f meeting > (not to mention that the list was never polled in this respect). Right, neither of these two documents are adopted as working group = documents. And perhaps a more correct phrasing above would be that "The = working group session in Singapore ended with what appeared to be a view = that work could continue on both of these documents". > I would say that it seems we have not been following the processes = that > should be followed. This has happened repeatedly over time, for this > very same topic. The process seems to be biased, and thus unfair to = the > rest of the wg participants. Which process are you talking about? Is that documented in an RFC? You seem to take it on yourself to represent the "rest of the wg = participants", but from my perspective it looks like a few very loud = voices. Perhaps we should let others speak up, if there is anything more to be = said on this topic. Ole= From nobody Thu Dec 5 13:51:01 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 644EE1200EF; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 13:50:53 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VH747QNjN8j6; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 13:50:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from fgont.go6lab.si (fgont.go6lab.si [91.239.96.14]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F341D120073; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 13:50:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.4.77] (unknown [190.179.35.56]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by fgont.go6lab.si (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 29B42852F6; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 22:50:46 +0100 (CET) To: otroan@employees.org Cc: SPRING WG , 6man <6man@ietf.org>, "int-ads@ietf.org" , rtg-ads References: <3AD3BD11-8C34-41FE-B88F-49A9F2561D78@cisco.com> <8DEDE597-B7B0-48F5-959E-69757315C2AC@employees.org> <4FAB68A3-C533-471D-94D0-3F6EB1F32FC1@employees.org> <1e36a492-5931-02de-cf85-63339522b13a@si6networks.com> From: Fernando Gont Autocrypt: addr=fgont@si6networks.com; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBE5so2gBEACzBQBLUy8nzgAzSZn6ViXT6TmZBFNYNqTpPRvTVtUqF6+tkI+IEd9N2E8p pXUXCd0W4dkxz6o7pagnK63m4QSueggvp881RVVHOF8oTSHOdnGxLfLeLNJFKE1FOutU3vod GK/wG/Fwzkv9MebdXpMlLV8nnJuAt66XGl/lU1JrNfrKO4SoYQi4TsB/waUQcygh7OR/PEO0 EttiU8kZUbZNv58WH+PAj/rdZCrgUSiGXiWUQQKShqKnJxLuAcTcg5YRwL8se/V6ciW0QR9i /sr52gSmLLbW5N3hAoO+nv1V/9SjJAUvzXu43k8sua/XlCXkqU7uLj41CRR72JeUZ4DQsYfP LfNPC98ZGTVxbWbFtLXxpzzDDT8i3uo7w1LJ2Ij/d5ezcARqw01HGljWWxnidUrjbTpxkJ9X EllcsH94mer728j/HKzC9OcTuz6WUBP3Crgl6Q47gY5ZIiF0lsmd9/wxbaq5NiJ+lGuBRZrD v0dQx9KmyI0/pH2AF8cW897/6ypvcyD/1/11CJcN+uAGIrklwJlVpRSbKbFtGC6In592lhu7 wnK8cgyP5cTU+vva9+g6P1wehi4bylXdlKc6mMphbtSA+T3WBNP557+mh3L62l4pGaEGidcZ DLYT2Ud18eAJmxU3HnM8P3iZZgeoK7oqgb53/eg96vkONXNIOwARAQABtCVGZXJuYW5kbyBH b250IDxmZ29udEBzaTZuZXR3b3Jrcy5jb20+iQJBBBMBAgArAhsjBQkSzAMABgsJCAcDAgYV CAIJCgsEFgIDAQIeAQIXgAUCTmylpQIZAQAKCRCuJQ1VHU50kv7wD/9fuNtTfxSLk3B3Hs3p ixTy8YXVjdkVwWlnJjFd7BOWmg7sI+LDhpjGfT6+ddOiwkumnvUZpObodj4ysH0i8c7P4C5t F9yu7WjklSlrB5Rth2CGChg5bKt541z2WHkFFxys9qBLmCSYDeKQkzLqhCjIUJizY2kOJ2GI MnSFDzJjhSFEh//oW830Y8fel1xnf/NVF+lBVtRMtMOfoWUqDjvP3sJ1G4zgkDCnF0CfncLx +hq2Mv26Uq9OTzvLH9aSQQ/f067BOkKAJKsfHdborX4E96ISTz57/4xECRSMr5dVsKVm4Y// uVIsb+L5z+a32FaiBZIAKDgnJO7Z8j6CV5e5yfuBTtX52Yi9HjYYqnYJGSDxYd6igD4bWu+7 xmJPHjkdqZgGV6dQIgiUfqkU+s5Cv350vK48CMaT/ZLo2BdsMhWsmaHmb+waePUMyq6E4E9x 9Js+EJb9ZiCfxS9exgieZQpet1L36IvhiwByvkQM009ywfa30JeMOltUtfLi5V06WQWsTzPL 5C+4cpkguSuAJVDTctjCA0moIeVDOpJ8WH9voQ4IeWapQnX35OIoj1jGJqqYdx65gc1ygbyx b8vw+pJ9E5GLse5TQnYifOWpXzX9053dtbwp/2OVhU4KLlzfCPCEsoTyfu9nIZxdI2PMwiL5 M85BfjX4NmwBLmPGoLkCDQRObKNoARAAqqXCkr250BchRDmi+05F5UQFgylUh10XTAJxBeaQ UNtdxZiZRm6jgomSrqeYtricM9t9K0qb4X2ZXmAMW8o8AYW3RrQHTjcBwMnAKzUIEXXWaLfG cid/ygmvWzIHgMDQKP+MUq1AGQrnvt/MRLvZLyczAV1RTXS58qNaxtaSpc3K/yrDozh/a4pu WcUsVvIkzyx43sqcwamDSBb6U8JFoZizuLXiARLLASgyHrrCedNIZdWSx0z0iHEpZIelA2ih AGLiSMtmtikVEyrJICgO81DkKNCbBbPg+7fi23V6M24+3syHk3IdQibTtBMxinIPyLFF0byJ aGm0fmjefhnmVJyCIl/FDkCHprVhTme57G2/WdoGnUvnT7mcwDRb8XY5nNRkOJsqqLPemKjz kx8mXdQbunXtX9bKyVgd1gIl+LLsxbdzRCch773UBVoortPdK3kMyLtZ4uMeDX3comjx+6VL bztUdJ1Zc9/njwVG8fgmQ+0Kj5+bzQfUY+MmX0HTXIx3B4R1I1a8QoOwi1N+iZNdewV5Zfq+ 29NlQLnVPjCRCKbaz9k6RJ2oIti55YUI6zSsL3lmlOXsRbXN5bRswFczkNSCJxJMlDiyAUIC WOay7ymzvgzPa+BY/mYn94vRaurDQ4/ljOfj6oqgfjts+dJev4Jj89vp8MQI3KJpZPEAEQEA AYkCJQQYAQIADwUCTmyjaAIbDAUJEswDAAAKCRCuJQ1VHU50km4xEACho45PZrUjY4Zl2opR DFNo5a6roTOPpgwO9PcBb3I5F8yX2Dnew+9OhgWXbBhAFq4DCx+9Gjs43Bn60qbZTDbLGJ/m 8N4PwEiq0e5MKceYcbetEdEUWhm5L6psU9ZZ82GR3UGxPXYe+oifEoJjOXQ39avf9S8p3yKP Diil0E79rn7LbJjMcgMLyjFg9SDoJ6pHLtniJoDhEAaSSgeV7Y745+gyMIdtQmrFHfqrFdjq D6G0HE+Z68ywc5KN67YxhvhBmSycs1ZSKAXv1zLDlXdmjHDHkU3xMcB+RkuiTba8yRFYwb/n j62CC4NhFTuIKOc4ta3dJsyXTGh/hO9UjWUnmAGfd0fnzTBZF8Qlnw/8ftx5lt4/O+eqY1EN RITScnPzXE/wMOlTtdkddQ+QN6xt6jyR2XtAIi7aAFHypIqA3lLI9hF9x+lj4UQ2yA9LqpoX 6URpPOd13JhAyDe47cwsP1u9Y+OBvQTVLSvw7Liu2b4KjqL4lx++VdBi7dXsjJ6kjIRjI6Lb WVpxe8LumMCuVDepTafBZ49gr7Fgc4F9ZSCo6ChgQNLn6WDzIkqFX+42KuHz90AHWhuW+KZR 1aJylERWeTcMCGUSBptd48KniWmD6kPKpzwoMkJtEXTuO2lVuborxzwuqOTNuYg9lWDl7zKt wPI9brGzquUHy4qRrA== Message-ID: Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 18:50:32 -0300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2019 21:50:53 -0000 On 5/12/19 18:41, otroan@employees.org wrote: > Fernando, > >>>> Point taken. Could you comment on the current state of WG consensus? >>> >>> The working group session in Singapore ended with what appeared to be a view that we should continue work on both documents (Mark's and the Voyer draft). >>> For the state of the wg consensus, I haven't checked with Bob, but I think he will agree with it being classified as "evolving". >> >> I polled you about this decision >> (https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ipv6/12Qwp_eeQT2EmbUrSxBLL5HTcnM), and >> you never responded. > > Sorry, which decision is that supposed to be? The documents were adopted, or they were not. In this case, they were not. Hence the current standards need to be complied with, and folks cannot processes this document with text that results in an outright violation of RFC8200. > >> Suresh (INT AD) clarified this one list, here: >> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ipv6/Db6_SGfmeIDzaE56Ps5kUDCYEzY >> >> Suresh noted that there wasn't consensus call, even at the f2f meeting >> (not to mention that the list was never polled in this respect). > > Right, neither of these two documents are adopted as working group documents. And perhaps a more correct phrasing above would be that "The working group session in Singapore ended with what appeared to be a view that work could continue on both of these documents". Not sure what you mean. Yes, sure: these are individual contributions. The authors can do what they please with their individual contributions, since they don't represent wg consensus. That includes continue working on them, abandoning them, or simply delete all content and revise the document as blank documetns with just boiler-plates. Until the point the wg has adopted such documents, I have no idea whatsoever why the mere existence of such *individal submissions* should affect the requirement to comply with our existing specs. >> I would say that it seems we have not been following the processes that >> should be followed. This has happened repeatedly over time, for this >> very same topic. The process seems to be biased, and thus unfair to the >> rest of the wg participants. > > Which process are you talking about? Is that documented in an RFC? Yes: RFC2026 and RFC2418. > You seem to take it on yourself to represent the "rest of the wg participants", but from my perspective it looks like a few very loud voices. I don't. Again: unless folks get consensus to update RFC8200, thy should comply with it. The onus is on them, not on us asking folks to comply with existing standards. Thanks, -- Fernando Gont SI6 Networks e-mail: fgont@si6networks.com PGP Fingerprint: 6666 31C6 D484 63B2 8FB1 E3C4 AE25 0D55 1D4E 7492 From nobody Thu Dec 5 14:01:21 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0472E1201A3; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 14:01:15 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1DktycXRdso8; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 14:01:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from clarinet.employees.org (clarinet.employees.org [IPv6:2607:7c80:54:3::74]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 42487120073; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 14:01:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from astfgl.hanazo.no (unknown [IPv6:2a01:79c:cebd:47d8:c5ba:f887:5271:a211]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by clarinet.employees.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id DA04F4E11AD1; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 22:01:12 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by astfgl.hanazo.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47F012510737; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 23:01:08 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.0 \(3601.0.10\)) From: otroan@employees.org In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 23:01:08 +0100 Cc: SPRING WG , 6man <6man@ietf.org>, "int-ads@ietf.org" , rtg-ads Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <8A9BC46E-A018-41C0-BE47-4BABC30EFE79@employees.org> References: <3AD3BD11-8C34-41FE-B88F-49A9F2561D78@cisco.com> <8DEDE597-B7B0-48F5-959E-69757315C2AC@employees.org> <4FAB68A3-C533-471D-94D0-3F6EB1F32FC1@employees.org> <1e36a492-5931-02de-cf85-63339522b13a@si6networks.com> To: Fernando Gont X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3601.0.10) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2019 22:01:15 -0000 >>> I would say that it seems we have not been following the processes = that >>> should be followed. This has happened repeatedly over time, for this >>> very same topic. The process seems to be biased, and thus unfair to = the >>> rest of the wg participants. >>=20 >> Which process are you talking about? Is that documented in an RFC? >=20 > Yes: RFC2026 and RFC2418. More specifically? And if you feel you need to the conflict resolution and appeals process = is described in rfc2026, section 6.5. >> You seem to take it on yourself to represent the "rest of the wg = participants", but from my perspective it looks like a few very loud = voices. >=20 > I don't. Again: unless folks get consensus to update RFC8200, thy = should > comply with it. The onus is on them, not on us asking folks to comply > with existing standards. Yes, we have heard your position on this now. There is of course a lot more nuance to this argument. Best regards, Ole= From nobody Thu Dec 5 14:03:21 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 768421201A3 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 14:03:14 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=herbertland-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ab3MSBF5QgAx for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 14:03:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ed1-x52a.google.com (mail-ed1-x52a.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::52a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D20D6120168 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 14:03:11 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ed1-x52a.google.com with SMTP id cm12so4050020edb.11 for ; Thu, 05 Dec 2019 14:03:11 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=herbertland-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=wIzv0+iMVfrjNMaBM1eK/F5RK1hShXGawpPL9xcEHNU=; b=XJR3NSDLdtCogmZEfQAOUhy5ePVVJoFQzy2pBDvemNsz+S7alTSlD54uS0zcwruP0b r9SVgmTWP2OTFVherBd0Xm9qMrKTbl7DKdgjA53E9pvGFFccAMcktCajgw3hiYTyU80Z lwudG8aeavabQHbTFQzb9UdhmMjhx9H9CUSltN+l7ZEmyWHsRfZSb4OonVnxxzOYSdvQ ind49Rqkleb8rH5dTty5ZzO2jIaUkmZtJybt+HinEg1GlBr1I+A1tjjxSWkJG91DdANu 3DvbCLuyB7oupRjY2C8I69mwGF85Bf0aLHqzGPqTOkqUiZvbZFFNf8ENNNHuYz1dnzHQ 0RDQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=wIzv0+iMVfrjNMaBM1eK/F5RK1hShXGawpPL9xcEHNU=; b=FgD/d0oG2FtyStXGUs5bw/tW/t4R7+qofx59Y0pFQ2Yh4Pzl5grzSX3T0e3h4NV004 m8QbTmo3f3IsQ1fuAZKN+UzXeRf0lNTdjqD9eh2UDf+fWgPPoSkk10yI0m10CJTnV70Z 6wT/O/nEXgZglP+oUxfBPXIZZqld01NARyZQc39M2ltY/HzaT1N2Y2FQGkObKGgqiibI 3I3B5imZAEmh/rFogkbMFg43Eby8+mfZZEeI7b5WahD4DG25GTqsaSxuwDPoPlRW/Sks j68fUvRFX/NdaymoS0mDTqKtGNJds45UGgedcdlXbbXQ3N8iAY11kuCfCehpbZajXfhH canQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWTs1U8eNCIgxIr6OtE8j392wMgKIJoGB8XwHDnC0dLTTS3MJPD 4fobC7lH6Qj9gSQ+HEsK/cP33Bi3zEf7UmYkNwAE4Q== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqx9Op8UnqQtoOe7GXX3T/sERkIL9QasOIYj8FNOBQLNQCMFAYBvMv4ryZhwBCP0Ed0pfSZ2Yx0s3XAu4H3riSY= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6402:a48:: with SMTP id bt8mr13071382edb.62.1575583390207; Thu, 05 Dec 2019 14:03:10 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <3AD3BD11-8C34-41FE-B88F-49A9F2561D78@cisco.com> <8DEDE597-B7B0-48F5-959E-69757315C2AC@employees.org> <4FAB68A3-C533-471D-94D0-3F6EB1F32FC1@employees.org> <1e36a492-5931-02de-cf85-63339522b13a@si6networks.com> In-Reply-To: From: Tom Herbert Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 14:02:59 -0800 Message-ID: To: Ole Troan Cc: Fernando Gont , SPRING WG , 6man <6man@ietf.org>, "int-ads@ietf.org" , rtg-ads Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2019 22:03:15 -0000 On Thu, Dec 5, 2019 at 1:41 PM wrote: > > Fernando, > > >>> Point taken. Could you comment on the current state of WG consensus? > >> > >> The working group session in Singapore ended with what appeared to be = a view that we should continue work on both documents (Mark's and the Voyer= draft). > >> For the state of the wg consensus, I haven't checked with Bob, but I t= hink he will agree with it being classified as "evolving". > > > > I polled you about this decision > > (https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ipv6/12Qwp_eeQT2EmbUrSxBLL5HTcnM= ), and > > you never responded. > > Sorry, which decision is that supposed to be? > > > Suresh (INT AD) clarified this one list, here: > > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ipv6/Db6_SGfmeIDzaE56Ps5kUDCYEzY > > > > Suresh noted that there wasn't consensus call, even at the f2f meeting > > (not to mention that the list was never polled in this respect). > > Right, neither of these two documents are adopted as working group docume= nts. And perhaps a more correct phrasing above would be that "The working g= roup session in Singapore ended with what appeared to be a view that work c= ould continue on both of these documents". > Ole, I'm not sure what the outcome to the working group session means in terms of the process. Basically, we have two documents that almost directly contradict each other (the EH insertion is bad one was in fact written in response to the EH insertion is good document). They both can't be right, and Network programming is still assuming the outcome that EH insertion/intermediate node removal is correct. So to continue to work on both documents seems to be akin to punting the disagreement without clarity on how this will ever be resolved. Also, I'd point out that the EH insertion document is over a year old and has already been reviewed, I don't see what new information could be provided at this point that would change the fundamental arguments against it. Can we ask for call for working group adoption call on these? Tom > > I would say that it seems we have not been following the processes that > > should be followed. This has happened repeatedly over time, for this > > very same topic. The process seems to be biased, and thus unfair to the > > rest of the wg participants. > > Which process are you talking about? Is that documented in an RFC? > You seem to take it on yourself to represent the "rest of the wg particip= ants", but from my perspective it looks like a few very loud voices. > Perhaps we should let others speak up, if there is anything more to be sa= id on this topic. > > Ole > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Thu Dec 5 14:09:52 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2AEB120073; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 14:09:02 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.701 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.701 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: f4be5102-acd9-4b2c-4d60-08d779cfb76f X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 05 Dec 2019 22:08:53.7371 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: 25uRos4kCWCeIYfQIlEeyHrqNhzGdhAjbAjDxDyxc5uSVW5Z+rS3tCKoD0EJgKG/YflOLOzW9yAZifaCw+iUOg== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN7PR05MB4580 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.95,18.0.572 definitions=2019-12-05_08:2019-12-04,2019-12-05 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_spam_notspam policy=outbound_spam score=0 bulkscore=0 impostorscore=0 suspectscore=0 priorityscore=1501 mlxscore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 malwarescore=0 spamscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 phishscore=0 clxscore=1011 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-1910280000 definitions=main-1912050180 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2019 22:09:03 -0000 Peace Gentlemen, For the purpose of this thread, I think that we have all of the information= that we need. Consensus regarding header insertion and removal is "evolvin= g".=20 We need to let that evolution progress, and not make any assumptions regard= ing its outcome. Ron Juniper Business Use Only -----Original Message----- From: otroan@employees.org =20 Sent: Thursday, December 5, 2019 4:42 PM To: Fernando Gont Cc: Ron Bonica ; SPRING WG ; 6man <6m= an@ietf.org>; int-ads@ietf.org; rtg-ads Subject: Re: We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network Progr= amming - Penultimate Segment Popping) Fernando, >>> Point taken. Could you comment on the current state of WG consensus? >>=20 >> The working group session in Singapore ended with what appeared to be a = view that we should continue work on both documents (Mark's and the Voyer d= raft). >> For the state of the wg consensus, I haven't checked with Bob, but I thi= nk he will agree with it being classified as "evolving". >=20 > I polled you about this decision > (https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ipv > 6/12Qwp_eeQT2EmbUrSxBLL5HTcnM__;!8WoA6RjC81c!QH6T9eu4QEGAh1tVtPAiXW2SjsZM= xfQdUYen3nv2CPDS4DWlFeKu7c4TwztzwnbH$ ), and you never responded. Sorry, which decision is that supposed to be? > Suresh (INT AD) clarified this one list, here: > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ipv6 > /Db6_SGfmeIDzaE56Ps5kUDCYEzY__;!8WoA6RjC81c!QH6T9eu4QEGAh1tVtPAiXW2Sjs > ZMxfQdUYen3nv2CPDS4DWlFeKu7c4Tw1iPjJAl$ >=20 > Suresh noted that there wasn't consensus call, even at the f2f meeting=20 > (not to mention that the list was never polled in this respect). Right, neither of these two documents are adopted as working group document= s. And perhaps a more correct phrasing above would be that "The working gro= up session in Singapore ended with what appeared to be a view that work cou= ld continue on both of these documents". > I would say that it seems we have not been following the processes=20 > that should be followed. This has happened repeatedly over time, for=20 > this very same topic. The process seems to be biased, and thus unfair=20 > to the rest of the wg participants. Which process are you talking about? Is that documented in an RFC? You seem to take it on yourself to represent the "rest of the wg participan= ts", but from my perspective it looks like a few very loud voices. Perhaps we should let others speak up, if there is anything more to be said= on this topic. Ole From nobody Thu Dec 5 14:19:25 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E78391201A3; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 14:19:20 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Sy0wNopXdWYQ; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 14:19:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from fgont.go6lab.si (fgont.go6lab.si [91.239.96.14]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C52BF1200EF; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 14:19:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.4.77] (unknown [190.179.35.56]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by fgont.go6lab.si (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1EAE18650F; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 23:19:14 +0100 (CET) To: otroan@employees.org Cc: rtg-ads , SPRING WG , 6man <6man@ietf.org>, "int-ads@ietf.org" References: <3AD3BD11-8C34-41FE-B88F-49A9F2561D78@cisco.com> <8DEDE597-B7B0-48F5-959E-69757315C2AC@employees.org> <4FAB68A3-C533-471D-94D0-3F6EB1F32FC1@employees.org> <1e36a492-5931-02de-cf85-63339522b13a@si6networks.com> <8A9BC46E-A018-41C0-BE47-4BABC30EFE79@employees.org> From: Fernando Gont Autocrypt: addr=fgont@si6networks.com; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBE5so2gBEACzBQBLUy8nzgAzSZn6ViXT6TmZBFNYNqTpPRvTVtUqF6+tkI+IEd9N2E8p pXUXCd0W4dkxz6o7pagnK63m4QSueggvp881RVVHOF8oTSHOdnGxLfLeLNJFKE1FOutU3vod GK/wG/Fwzkv9MebdXpMlLV8nnJuAt66XGl/lU1JrNfrKO4SoYQi4TsB/waUQcygh7OR/PEO0 EttiU8kZUbZNv58WH+PAj/rdZCrgUSiGXiWUQQKShqKnJxLuAcTcg5YRwL8se/V6ciW0QR9i /sr52gSmLLbW5N3hAoO+nv1V/9SjJAUvzXu43k8sua/XlCXkqU7uLj41CRR72JeUZ4DQsYfP LfNPC98ZGTVxbWbFtLXxpzzDDT8i3uo7w1LJ2Ij/d5ezcARqw01HGljWWxnidUrjbTpxkJ9X EllcsH94mer728j/HKzC9OcTuz6WUBP3Crgl6Q47gY5ZIiF0lsmd9/wxbaq5NiJ+lGuBRZrD v0dQx9KmyI0/pH2AF8cW897/6ypvcyD/1/11CJcN+uAGIrklwJlVpRSbKbFtGC6In592lhu7 wnK8cgyP5cTU+vva9+g6P1wehi4bylXdlKc6mMphbtSA+T3WBNP557+mh3L62l4pGaEGidcZ DLYT2Ud18eAJmxU3HnM8P3iZZgeoK7oqgb53/eg96vkONXNIOwARAQABtCVGZXJuYW5kbyBH b250IDxmZ29udEBzaTZuZXR3b3Jrcy5jb20+iQJBBBMBAgArAhsjBQkSzAMABgsJCAcDAgYV CAIJCgsEFgIDAQIeAQIXgAUCTmylpQIZAQAKCRCuJQ1VHU50kv7wD/9fuNtTfxSLk3B3Hs3p ixTy8YXVjdkVwWlnJjFd7BOWmg7sI+LDhpjGfT6+ddOiwkumnvUZpObodj4ysH0i8c7P4C5t F9yu7WjklSlrB5Rth2CGChg5bKt541z2WHkFFxys9qBLmCSYDeKQkzLqhCjIUJizY2kOJ2GI MnSFDzJjhSFEh//oW830Y8fel1xnf/NVF+lBVtRMtMOfoWUqDjvP3sJ1G4zgkDCnF0CfncLx +hq2Mv26Uq9OTzvLH9aSQQ/f067BOkKAJKsfHdborX4E96ISTz57/4xECRSMr5dVsKVm4Y// uVIsb+L5z+a32FaiBZIAKDgnJO7Z8j6CV5e5yfuBTtX52Yi9HjYYqnYJGSDxYd6igD4bWu+7 xmJPHjkdqZgGV6dQIgiUfqkU+s5Cv350vK48CMaT/ZLo2BdsMhWsmaHmb+waePUMyq6E4E9x 9Js+EJb9ZiCfxS9exgieZQpet1L36IvhiwByvkQM009ywfa30JeMOltUtfLi5V06WQWsTzPL 5C+4cpkguSuAJVDTctjCA0moIeVDOpJ8WH9voQ4IeWapQnX35OIoj1jGJqqYdx65gc1ygbyx b8vw+pJ9E5GLse5TQnYifOWpXzX9053dtbwp/2OVhU4KLlzfCPCEsoTyfu9nIZxdI2PMwiL5 M85BfjX4NmwBLmPGoLkCDQRObKNoARAAqqXCkr250BchRDmi+05F5UQFgylUh10XTAJxBeaQ UNtdxZiZRm6jgomSrqeYtricM9t9K0qb4X2ZXmAMW8o8AYW3RrQHTjcBwMnAKzUIEXXWaLfG cid/ygmvWzIHgMDQKP+MUq1AGQrnvt/MRLvZLyczAV1RTXS58qNaxtaSpc3K/yrDozh/a4pu WcUsVvIkzyx43sqcwamDSBb6U8JFoZizuLXiARLLASgyHrrCedNIZdWSx0z0iHEpZIelA2ih AGLiSMtmtikVEyrJICgO81DkKNCbBbPg+7fi23V6M24+3syHk3IdQibTtBMxinIPyLFF0byJ aGm0fmjefhnmVJyCIl/FDkCHprVhTme57G2/WdoGnUvnT7mcwDRb8XY5nNRkOJsqqLPemKjz kx8mXdQbunXtX9bKyVgd1gIl+LLsxbdzRCch773UBVoortPdK3kMyLtZ4uMeDX3comjx+6VL bztUdJ1Zc9/njwVG8fgmQ+0Kj5+bzQfUY+MmX0HTXIx3B4R1I1a8QoOwi1N+iZNdewV5Zfq+ 29NlQLnVPjCRCKbaz9k6RJ2oIti55YUI6zSsL3lmlOXsRbXN5bRswFczkNSCJxJMlDiyAUIC WOay7ymzvgzPa+BY/mYn94vRaurDQ4/ljOfj6oqgfjts+dJev4Jj89vp8MQI3KJpZPEAEQEA AYkCJQQYAQIADwUCTmyjaAIbDAUJEswDAAAKCRCuJQ1VHU50km4xEACho45PZrUjY4Zl2opR DFNo5a6roTOPpgwO9PcBb3I5F8yX2Dnew+9OhgWXbBhAFq4DCx+9Gjs43Bn60qbZTDbLGJ/m 8N4PwEiq0e5MKceYcbetEdEUWhm5L6psU9ZZ82GR3UGxPXYe+oifEoJjOXQ39avf9S8p3yKP Diil0E79rn7LbJjMcgMLyjFg9SDoJ6pHLtniJoDhEAaSSgeV7Y745+gyMIdtQmrFHfqrFdjq D6G0HE+Z68ywc5KN67YxhvhBmSycs1ZSKAXv1zLDlXdmjHDHkU3xMcB+RkuiTba8yRFYwb/n j62CC4NhFTuIKOc4ta3dJsyXTGh/hO9UjWUnmAGfd0fnzTBZF8Qlnw/8ftx5lt4/O+eqY1EN RITScnPzXE/wMOlTtdkddQ+QN6xt6jyR2XtAIi7aAFHypIqA3lLI9hF9x+lj4UQ2yA9LqpoX 6URpPOd13JhAyDe47cwsP1u9Y+OBvQTVLSvw7Liu2b4KjqL4lx++VdBi7dXsjJ6kjIRjI6Lb WVpxe8LumMCuVDepTafBZ49gr7Fgc4F9ZSCo6ChgQNLn6WDzIkqFX+42KuHz90AHWhuW+KZR 1aJylERWeTcMCGUSBptd48KniWmD6kPKpzwoMkJtEXTuO2lVuborxzwuqOTNuYg9lWDl7zKt wPI9brGzquUHy4qRrA== Message-ID: Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 19:19:00 -0300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <8A9BC46E-A018-41C0-BE47-4BABC30EFE79@employees.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2019 22:19:21 -0000 Ole, On 5/12/19 19:01, otroan@employees.org wrote: [...] >> >> I don't. Again: unless folks get consensus to update RFC8200, thy should >> comply with it. The onus is on them, not on us asking folks to comply >> with existing standards. > > Yes, we have heard your position on this now. > There is of course a lot more nuance to this argument. Could you please, as wg chair, elaborate on this? Thanks, -- Fernando Gont SI6 Networks e-mail: fgont@si6networks.com PGP Fingerprint: 6666 31C6 D484 63B2 8FB1 E3C4 AE25 0D55 1D4E 7492 From nobody Thu Dec 5 14:21:56 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7D56120168; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 14:21:55 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ayIQ5LXeQS-Q; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 14:21:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-lf1-x12e.google.com (mail-lf1-x12e.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::12e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C83ED1200EF; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 14:21:52 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-lf1-x12e.google.com with SMTP id 203so3674062lfa.12; Thu, 05 Dec 2019 14:21:52 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=AErRydRvkCLhNflu4K6QGimJ7457fqDQNNblxY6ZROk=; b=YeFDrmgz1pkXXzTap+9gQN2ZKIf2OAh9oSLtiphcwjllZ8InOOYHzryGWOdPt/nqVW hjs5aATHdGPt7iFSmBqkt5woTTORu7dLLNcC42/GFCLLs/0562hjYjmif9PAzyhfRSrd YsE1/+ujBQoyr4FKtIgoqnNAolkpAzrsZhyD4srA4vJpEWlBOqQsULy1M31M1wQi+zGY KClu0+HGG/uhk3X19hlJZxw6owRCBwfKC5Vv73GcS1lZc9uUkPzTpbEq7On5l/ek6Xx4 nJ60mdmdFKmlxyO+BgxqqcxxUHBVOmTXV1TkOhcjZkGJf3ogQ0mCpjk3rOx+KWWHJ29p gmOA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=AErRydRvkCLhNflu4K6QGimJ7457fqDQNNblxY6ZROk=; b=nJ10/tYqyZ1cbcJnhzBMPk3iSV8EAG+D/0bwpyIAr2R3GTXlOp+G14tiDeng0dRLQP CnXlSxoB6OXUwfsV0s3mbJk2sOxhFZ9sZR+e5GsukuSazd6aCGB51MmmDaEaCOBM8S0o HOesbeJV/xE75qqO+Zg6MVLKbdTZnVXSMpiEho2N2UHv10qXxapnB2ojOc/+B8YmVZCJ 5EsDqXZFWel0g3fvaTXr0TktY4YfytXzHldYv6I+RQk0YfdBa042kJbXVY3Ol47Dz++O /19A795ke4qgYBuOqq5rYcBf1X0FE1zoumXEAkWXryAyol3Nf4U7l5RFtYPZQUQCQa9f PPcQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUAIuQqMfCV9gdSA3tvinT8hvHAUZe4W0pkYFmhZaRpF6dS4+7T goU/xgG/CLb/gauWP72zpImfvCXyr2BUKbgcOsgV/gGc X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxh/Xchg1e1gKnI8Vt8lfHetsyC8k5X7JMV3AYKBMpnvHNxnlk0eqRIEPKQcja6d8bXi38q25RQFa4lOhXLTIE= X-Received: by 2002:ac2:568d:: with SMTP id 13mr6419795lfr.113.1575584510737; Thu, 05 Dec 2019 14:21:50 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Greg Mirsky Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 17:21:38 -0500 Message-ID: To: Ole Troan Cc: 6man WG , SPRING WG , 6man Chairs <6man-chairs@ietf.org> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000001383210598fc5bca" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] 6man w.g. last call for X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2019 22:21:56 -0000 --0000000000001383210598fc5bca Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Dear Authors, et al., please find my comments, as WG LC comments, questions to this document below. - The Abstract and Introduction describe the document as "defines building blocks for Operations, Administration, and Maintenance (OAM) in Segment Routing Networks with IPv6 Dataplane (SRv6)". I believe it would be helpful to demonstrate that the existing mechanisms used in IPv6 to demultiplex and realize OAM functions, e.g., using the well-known destination UDP port number, are not sufficient and require the introduction of new methods, e.g., O bit in SRH. - This document introduces the O-flag into SRH as the building block for OAM in SR networks with IPv6 data plane. It appears that the functions that are realized using the O-flag are already supported by the existing OAM protocols that enable fault management (e.g., variations of Echo Request/Reply, BFD) and performance monitoring (e.g., STAMP). Also, the use of the new "building block for OAM" in SRv6 splits the SR OAM suit into two functionally separate toolsets - one for SR-MPLS and another for SRv6. - The document defines the support of O-flag as OPTIONAL. In that case, what is the benefit of advertising the support of O-flag by an SR node (even though the advertisement itself is optional)? - The document uses the term "accurate timestamp" without the discussion or definition of what level of accuracy is required or expected, methods to acquire an accurate timestamp, format(s) that must or may be used to record a timestamp, and what are possible implications of not providing an accurate timestamp. - The document asserts that to support "Many scenarios require punting of SRv6 OAM packets at the desired nodes in the network" can be done only with using OAM Endpoint with Punt function. I believe that TTL/Hop Count Expired had been used successfully to achieve the same result. what is the apparent need to introduce functional duplication to already existing OAM technique? How a packet would be processed if both O-flag and the OAM SID End.OP are present (the specification only recommends setting O-flag to 0 when End.OP SID is present)? - Section 3.4 introduces function OAM Endpoint with Timestamp and Punt. At the same time, processing the O-flag, defined, as: a. Make a copy of the packet. b. Send the copied packet, along with an accurate timestamp Is the difference in making or not making a local copy significant enough to have two mechanisms to achieve essentially the same result? How a packet will be processed if both O-flag and the OAM SID End.OTP are present (the specification only recommends to set O-flag to 0 when END.OTP SID is present) ? - Section 3.5 states that: SRH TLV plays an important role in carrying OAM and Performance Management (PM) metadata. I cannot find any other text that illustrates how SRH TLV plays any role in FM and/or PM OAM. - It is stated in Section 4: This section describes how OAM mechanisms can be implemented using the OAM building blocks described in the previous section. As this is the Standard document, using the normative language would be very much desirable. Then it would be clearer whether the use of not only O-flag but of OAM SIDs as well is optional or mandatory. - I've noticed that functions used as an example in the document are all part of active OAM functions. At the same time, the defined processing of the O-flag is very much similar to the operation of in-situ OAM. But I don't find any reference to in-situ OAM mechanism, nor discussion of whether both can be used in combination or are mutually exclusive. - In Section 4.1.2 the identification of an OAM (active OAM or some other kind of OAM) packet defined as: The OAM packets are identified either by setting the O-flag in SRH or by inserting the END.OP/ END.OTP SIDs at an appropriate place in the SRH. Is the use of any of these methods required for any OAM? If that is the case, then the normative language must be used. Also, is it required to use any of these methods for, for example, BFD control packets or STAMP test packets? Isn't using assigned by IANA port number sufficient to identify active IP OAM packets? Wouldn't the same be applicable in SRv6 OAM? - I have a question on how a local node selects an application that is to receive a punted packet (whether marked by O-flag that includes one of OAM SIDs)? The document provides examples where the destination is either ICMPv6 or a traceroute (?) process. Is that an exhaustive list? I greatly appreciate your kind consideration and am looking forward to the productive discussion. Regards, Greg On Wed, Dec 4, 2019 at 3:53 PM Ole Troan wrote: > Hello, > > As agreed in the working group session in Singapore, this message starts > a new two week 6MAN Working Group Last Call on advancing: > > Title : Operations, Administration, and Maintenance (OAM) in Segment > Routing Networks with IPv6 Data plane (SRv6) > Author : Z. Ali, C. Filsfils, S. Matsushima, D. Voyer, M. Chen > Filename : draft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6-oam-02 > Pages : 23 > Date : 2019-11-20 > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6-oam/ > > as a Proposed Standard. > > Substantive comments and statements of support for publishing this > document should be directed to the mailing list. > Editorial suggestions can be sent to the author. This last call will end > on the 18th of December 2019. > > To improve document quality and ensure that bugs are caught as early as > possible, we would require at least > two reviewers to do a complete review of the document. Please let the > chairs know if you are willing to be a reviewer. > > The last call will be forwarded to the spring working group, with > discussion directed to the ipv6 list. > > Thanks, > Bob & Ole, 6man co-chairs > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > --0000000000001383210598fc5bca Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear Authors, et al.,
please find my comments, as WG L= C comments, questions to this document below.
  • The Abstrac= t and Introduction describe the document as "defines building blocks f= or Operations, Administration, and Maintenance (OAM) in Segment Routing Net= works with IPv6 Dataplane (SRv6)". I believe it would be helpful to de= monstrate that the existing mechanisms used in IPv6 to demultiplex and real= ize OAM functions, e.g., using the well-known destination UDP port number, = are not sufficient and require the introduction of new methods, e.g., O bit= in SRH.
  • This document introduces the O-flag into SRH as the buildi= ng block for OAM in SR networks with IPv6 data plane. It appears that the f= unctions that are realized using the O-flag are already supported by the ex= isting OAM protocols that enable fault management (e.g., variations of Echo= Request/Reply, BFD) and performance monitoring (e.g., STAMP). Also, the us= e of the new "building block for OAM" in SRv6 splits the SR OAM s= uit into two functionally separate toolsets - one for SR-MPLS and another f= or SRv6.
  • The document defines the support of O-flag as OPTIONAL. In= that case, what is the benefit of advertising the support of O-flag by an = SR node (even though the advertisement itself is optional)?
  • The doc= ument uses the term "accurate timestamp" without the discussion o= r definition of what level of accuracy is required or expected, methods to = acquire an accurate timestamp, format(s) that must or may be used to record= a timestamp, and what are possible implications of not providing an accura= te timestamp.
  • The document asserts that to support "Many scena= rios require punting of SRv6 OAM packets at the desired nodes in the networ= k" can be done only with using=C2=A0OAM Endpoint with Punt function. I= believe that TTL/Hop Count Expired had been used successfully to achieve t= he same result. what is the apparent need to introduce functional duplicati= on to already existing OAM technique?=C2=A0 How a packet would be processed if both O-flag and the OAM SID End.OP are p= resent (the specification only recommends setting O-flag to 0 when End.OP S= ID is present)?
  • Section 3.4 introduces function=C2=A0OAM Endpoint with Timestamp a= nd Punt. At the same time, processing the O-flag, defined, as:
=C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 a. Make a copy of the packet.
=C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 b. Send the copied packet, along wit= h an accurate timestamp
Is the difference in making or not making a= local copy significant enough to have two mechanisms to achieve essentiall= y the same result? How a packet will be processed if both O-flag and the OA= M SID End.OTP are present=20 (the specification only recommends to set O-flag to 0 when END.OTP SID is p= resent) ?
  • Section 3.5 states that:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0= SRH TLV plays an important role in carrying OAM and Performance
= =C2=A0 =C2=A0Management (PM) metadata.
I cannot find any other= text that illustrates how SRH TLV plays any role in FM and/or PM OAM.
  • It is stated in Section 4:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0This section de= scribes how OAM mechanisms can be implemented using
=C2=A0 =C2=A0the OAM= building blocks described in the previous section.
As this is t= he Standard document, using the normative language would be very much desir= able. Then it would be clearer whether the use of not only O-flag but of OA= M SIDs as well is optional or mandatory.
  • I&#= 39;ve noticed that functions used as an example in the document are all par= t of active OAM functions. At the same time, the defined processing of the = O-flag is very much similar to the operation of in-situ OAM. But I don'= t find any reference to in-situ OAM mechanism, nor discussion of whether bo= th can be used in combination or are mutually exclusive.
  • In Section= 4.1.2 the identification of an OAM (active OAM or some other kind of OAM) = packet defined as:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0The OAM packets are ide= ntified either by setting the O-flag in SRH or
=C2=A0 = =C2=A0by inserting the END.OP/ END.OTP SIDs at an appropriate place in the<= /div>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0SRH.
Is the use of any = of these methods required for any OAM? If that is the case, then the normat= ive language must be used. Also, is it required to use any of these methods= for, for example, BFD control packets or STAMP test packets? Isn't usi= ng assigned by IANA port number sufficient to identify active IP OAM packet= s? Wouldn't the same be applicable in SRv6 OAM?
=
  • I have a question on how a local node selects an application that i= s to receive a punted packet (whether marked by O-flag that includes one of= OAM SIDs)? The document provides examples where the destination is either = ICMPv6 or a traceroute (?) process. Is that an exhaustive list?

I greatly appreciate your kind considera= tion and am looking forward to the productive discussion.

Regards,
Greg

On Wed, Dec 4, 2019 at 3:53 PM Ole Troan <= ;otroan@employees= .org> wrote:
Hello,

=C2=A0 As agreed in the working group session in Singapore, this message st= arts a new two week 6MAN Working Group Last Call on advancing:

=C2=A0 Title=C2=A0 =C2=A0 : Operations, Administration, and Maintenance (OA= M) in Segment Routing Networks with IPv6 Data plane (SRv6)
=C2=A0 Author=C2=A0 =C2=A0: Z. Ali, C. Filsfils, S. Matsushima, D. Voyer, M= . Chen
=C2=A0 Filename : draft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6-oam-02
=C2=A0 Pages=C2=A0 =C2=A0 : 23
=C2=A0 Date=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0: 2019-11-20

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://datatracker.i= etf.org/doc/draft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6-oam/

as a Proposed Standard.=C2=A0

Substantive comments and statements of support for publishing this document= should be directed to the mailing list.
Editorial suggestions can be sent to the author. This last call will end on= the 18th of December 2019.

To improve document quality and ensure that bugs are caught as early as pos= sible, we would require at least
two reviewers to do a complete review of the document.=C2=A0 Please let the= chairs know if you are willing to be a reviewer.

The last call will be forwarded to the spring working group, with discussio= n directed to the ipv6 list.

Thanks,
Bob & Ole, 6man co-chairs


--------------------------------------------------------------------
IETF IPv6 working group mailing list
ipv6@ietf.org
Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/list= info/ipv6
--------------------------------------------------------------------
--0000000000001383210598fc5bca-- From nobody Thu Dec 5 14:27:51 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B57F4120168; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 14:27:45 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0XKC6uHazEN2; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 14:27:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx1.ernw.net (mx1.ernw.net [62.159.96.78]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 65FB01200EF; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 14:27:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail1.ernw.net (unknown [172.31.1.30]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail1.ernw.net", Issuer "ernw ca1" (verified OK)) by mx1.ernw.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6356527449; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 23:27:41 +0100 (CET) Received: from ws26.ernw.net (ws26.ernw.net [172.31.1.70]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "ws26.ernw.net", Issuer "ernw ca1" (verified OK)) by mail1.ernw.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 41DD242FE9A; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 23:27:41 +0100 (CET) Received: by ws26.ernw.net (Postfix, from userid 1002) id D0C294E34E; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 23:27:40 +0100 (CET) Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 23:27:40 +0100 From: Enno Rey To: otroan@employees.org Cc: Fernando Gont , rtg-ads , SPRING WG , 6man <6man@ietf.org>, "int-ads@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20191205222740.GA9637@ernw.de> References: <3AD3BD11-8C34-41FE-B88F-49A9F2561D78@cisco.com> <8DEDE597-B7B0-48F5-959E-69757315C2AC@employees.org> <4FAB68A3-C533-471D-94D0-3F6EB1F32FC1@employees.org> <1e36a492-5931-02de-cf85-63339522b13a@si6networks.com> <8A9BC46E-A018-41C0-BE47-4BABC30EFE79@employees.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <8A9BC46E-A018-41C0-BE47-4BABC30EFE79@employees.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.11.3 (2019-02-01) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2019 22:27:46 -0000 Hi Ole, On Thu, Dec 05, 2019 at 11:01:08PM +0100, otroan@employees.org wrote: > > comply with it. The onus is on them, not on us asking folks to comply > > with existing standards. > > Yes, we have heard your position on this now. > There is of course a lot more nuance to this argument. could you please explain said 'nuance' in more detail? thank you in advance for your efforts Enno > > Best regards, > Ole > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Enno Rey Cell: +49 173 6745902 Twitter: @Enno_Insinuator From nobody Thu Dec 5 14:47:59 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52CEE1201A3; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 14:47:52 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rRYA1LvLlGQZ; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 14:47:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx1.ernw.net (mx1.ernw.net [IPv6:2003:60:4010:10a0::11]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6324F1200EF; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 14:47:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail1.ernw.net (unknown [172.31.1.30]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail1.ernw.net", Issuer "ernw ca1" (verified OK)) by mx1.ernw.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8CA032740F; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 23:47:47 +0100 (CET) Received: from ws26.ernw.net (ws26.ernw.net [172.31.1.70]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "ws26.ernw.net", Issuer "ernw ca1" (verified OK)) by mail1.ernw.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6900742FF52; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 23:47:47 +0100 (CET) Received: by ws26.ernw.net (Postfix, from userid 1002) id EE1BF4E35A; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 23:47:46 +0100 (CET) Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 23:47:46 +0100 From: Enno Rey To: Ron Bonica Cc: "otroan@employees.org" , Fernando Gont , SPRING WG , 6man <6man@ietf.org>, "int-ads@ietf.org" , rtg-ads Message-ID: <20191205224746.GA9697@ernw.de> References: <3AD3BD11-8C34-41FE-B88F-49A9F2561D78@cisco.com> <8DEDE597-B7B0-48F5-959E-69757315C2AC@employees.org> <4FAB68A3-C533-471D-94D0-3F6EB1F32FC1@employees.org> <1e36a492-5931-02de-cf85-63339522b13a@si6networks.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.11.3 (2019-02-01) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2019 22:47:52 -0000 Hi Ron, On Thu, Dec 05, 2019 at 10:08:53PM +0000, Ron Bonica wrote: > Peace Gentlemen, > > For the purpose of this thread, I think that we have all of the information that we need. Consensus regarding header insertion and removal is "evolving". not meaning to nitpick and admittedly I'm not super-familiar with all nuances of IETF processes but this means that no type of consensus has been reached yet, correct? thanks Enno > > We need to let that evolution progress, and not make any assumptions regarding its outcome. > > Ron > > > Juniper Business Use Only > > -----Original Message----- > From: otroan@employees.org > Sent: Thursday, December 5, 2019 4:42 PM > To: Fernando Gont > Cc: Ron Bonica ; SPRING WG ; 6man <6man@ietf.org>; int-ads@ietf.org; rtg-ads > Subject: Re: We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping) > > Fernando, > > >>> Point taken. Could you comment on the current state of WG consensus? > >> > >> The working group session in Singapore ended with what appeared to be a view that we should continue work on both documents (Mark's and the Voyer draft). > >> For the state of the wg consensus, I haven't checked with Bob, but I think he will agree with it being classified as "evolving". > > > > I polled you about this decision > > (https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ipv > > 6/12Qwp_eeQT2EmbUrSxBLL5HTcnM__;!8WoA6RjC81c!QH6T9eu4QEGAh1tVtPAiXW2SjsZMxfQdUYen3nv2CPDS4DWlFeKu7c4TwztzwnbH$ ), and you never responded. > > Sorry, which decision is that supposed to be? > > > Suresh (INT AD) clarified this one list, here: > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ipv6 > > /Db6_SGfmeIDzaE56Ps5kUDCYEzY__;!8WoA6RjC81c!QH6T9eu4QEGAh1tVtPAiXW2Sjs > > ZMxfQdUYen3nv2CPDS4DWlFeKu7c4Tw1iPjJAl$ > > > > Suresh noted that there wasn't consensus call, even at the f2f meeting > > (not to mention that the list was never polled in this respect). > > Right, neither of these two documents are adopted as working group documents. And perhaps a more correct phrasing above would be that "The working group session in Singapore ended with what appeared to be a view that work could continue on both of these documents". > > > I would say that it seems we have not been following the processes > > that should be followed. This has happened repeatedly over time, for > > this very same topic. The process seems to be biased, and thus unfair > > to the rest of the wg participants. > > Which process are you talking about? Is that documented in an RFC? > You seem to take it on yourself to represent the "rest of the wg participants", but from my perspective it looks like a few very loud voices. > Perhaps we should let others speak up, if there is anything more to be said on this topic. > > Ole > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Enno Rey Cell: +49 173 6745902 Twitter: @Enno_Insinuator From nobody Thu Dec 5 16:20:23 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB7A512003E; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 16:20:14 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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Fri, 6 Dec 2019 00:20:00 +0000 Received: from BN7PR05MB5699.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::185e:d297:6499:4987]) by BN7PR05MB5699.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::185e:d297:6499:4987%7]) with mapi id 15.20.2516.003; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 00:20:00 +0000 From: Ron Bonica To: Enno Rey CC: "otroan@employees.org" , Fernando Gont , SPRING WG , 6man <6man@ietf.org>, "int-ads@ietf.org" , rtg-ads Thread-Topic: We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping) Thread-Index: AQHVq7OB3WyX+KNnYEeH6fGTwOpEUKesEh6AgAAEkkCAAA3vAIAAGZWA Content-Class: Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 00:20:00 +0000 Message-ID: References: <3AD3BD11-8C34-41FE-B88F-49A9F2561D78@cisco.com> <8DEDE597-B7B0-48F5-959E-69757315C2AC@employees.org> <4FAB68A3-C533-471D-94D0-3F6EB1F32FC1@employees.org> <1e36a492-5931-02de-cf85-63339522b13a@si6networks.com> <20191205224746.GA9697@ernw.de> In-Reply-To: <20191205224746.GA9697@ernw.de> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: msip_labels: MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_Enabled=True; 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 36c40518-3685-4d03-3680-08d779e2083f X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 06 Dec 2019 00:20:00.2475 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: a/RQTh6Yy5teSraHWavMqy+fdmUfGLTkxM9J0ja2J9a8O2KnUZ/Oziw7roBvgoqzKHkK82rqGrwJYYBs2yEzmw== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN7PR05MB4067 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.95,18.0.572 definitions=2019-12-05_10:2019-12-04,2019-12-05 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_spam_notspam policy=outbound_spam score=0 malwarescore=0 mlxlogscore=999 lowpriorityscore=0 impostorscore=0 adultscore=0 spamscore=0 phishscore=0 clxscore=1011 priorityscore=1501 bulkscore=0 mlxscore=0 suspectscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-1910280000 definitions=main-1912060000 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 00:20:15 -0000 Enno, That is how I parse Ole's message. But we can let Ole speak for himself. Ron Juniper Business Use Only -----Original Message----- From: Enno Rey =20 Sent: Thursday, December 5, 2019 5:48 PM To: Ron Bonica Cc: otroan@employees.org; Fernando Gont ; SPRING WG = ; 6man <6man@ietf.org>; int-ads@ietf.org; rtg-ads Subject: Re: We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network Progr= amming - Penultimate Segment Popping) Hi Ron, On Thu, Dec 05, 2019 at 10:08:53PM +0000, Ron Bonica wrote: > Peace Gentlemen, >=20 > For the purpose of this thread, I think that we have all of the informati= on that we need. Consensus regarding header insertion and removal is "evolv= ing".=20 not meaning to nitpick and admittedly I'm not super-familiar with all nuanc= es of IETF processes but this means that no type of consensus has been reac= hed yet, correct? thanks Enno >=20 > We need to let that evolution progress, and not make any assumptions rega= rding its outcome. >=20 > Ron >=20 >=20 > Juniper Business Use Only >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: otroan@employees.org > Sent: Thursday, December 5, 2019 4:42 PM > To: Fernando Gont > Cc: Ron Bonica ; SPRING WG ;=20 > 6man <6man@ietf.org>; int-ads@ietf.org; rtg-ads=20 > > Subject: Re: We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network=20 > Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping) >=20 > Fernando, >=20 > >>> Point taken. Could you comment on the current state of WG consensus? > >>=20 > >> The working group session in Singapore ended with what appeared to be = a view that we should continue work on both documents (Mark's and the Voyer= draft). > >> For the state of the wg consensus, I haven't checked with Bob, but I t= hink he will agree with it being classified as "evolving". > >=20 > > I polled you about this decision > > (https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/i > > pv=20 > > 6/12Qwp_eeQT2EmbUrSxBLL5HTcnM__;!8WoA6RjC81c!QH6T9eu4QEGAh1tVtPAiXW2Sjs= ZMxfQdUYen3nv2CPDS4DWlFeKu7c4TwztzwnbH$ ), and you never responded. >=20 > Sorry, which decision is that supposed to be? >=20 > > Suresh (INT AD) clarified this one list, here: > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ip > > v6=20 > > /Db6_SGfmeIDzaE56Ps5kUDCYEzY__;!8WoA6RjC81c!QH6T9eu4QEGAh1tVtPAiXW2S > > js ZMxfQdUYen3nv2CPDS4DWlFeKu7c4Tw1iPjJAl$ > >=20 > > Suresh noted that there wasn't consensus call, even at the f2f=20 > > meeting (not to mention that the list was never polled in this respect)= . >=20 > Right, neither of these two documents are adopted as working group docume= nts. And perhaps a more correct phrasing above would be that "The working g= roup session in Singapore ended with what appeared to be a view that work c= ould continue on both of these documents". >=20 > > I would say that it seems we have not been following the processes=20 > > that should be followed. This has happened repeatedly over time, for=20 > > this very same topic. The process seems to be biased, and thus=20 > > unfair to the rest of the wg participants. >=20 > Which process are you talking about? Is that documented in an RFC? > You seem to take it on yourself to represent the "rest of the wg particip= ants", but from my perspective it looks like a few very loud voices. > Perhaps we should let others speak up, if there is anything more to be sa= id on this topic. >=20 > Ole >=20 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests:=20 > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > __;!8WoA6RjC81c!TjLEU67_JCgw5HSu4C7UhFOC61xLkOhpmW0Ev51wqvHbECMOysxK3t > 9RS5pxqO3g$ > -------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Enno Rey Cell: +49 173 6745902 Twitter: @Enno_Insinuator From nobody Thu Dec 5 16:30:03 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 075001201A3; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 16:29:56 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id c0lw50dw-8qb; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 16:29:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pf1-x429.google.com (mail-pf1-x429.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::429]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 804D3120046; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 16:29:53 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pf1-x429.google.com with SMTP id x185so2401863pfc.5; Thu, 05 Dec 2019 16:29:53 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to :date:cc:message-id:references:to; bh=Fhb4VUolEb7RppOSEOUI3ep5fDQ/QEoLdoyzquaWQ+Y=; b=TWgDBXng6AL/rKxFwsdrGh2lcECeGlmuRz4N+n8XyeSncz+ekuC976PQs9UTL0cj2y qVohb0PbBekZ3UBVzfCEiyjKTFLgClTU4wC+LxLNsm/GQaJ801cGhICKeohF+TgkMcCb zlSzvyHaHTJJdd7n4pThciaaKMXOHUNbqFb+0PL1LoCSVFiEJHzeQHGrKb1qQCfQbo+d wKyrsYP99dm4SlZeSlTH05Jtot7DRVYPRB3FVm0DMfS1WnjvSgp/OlGyJzgMEW6h1mn6 w1wDtLMsqBaJPqvI1yCY9Wmcw2sQYtLkLr8jpsql419EPC5r6L96lASp7DlXbLc5DB8z HoMA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:subject :from:in-reply-to:date:cc:message-id:references:to; bh=Fhb4VUolEb7RppOSEOUI3ep5fDQ/QEoLdoyzquaWQ+Y=; b=VGgU0r4rVZAyrZSkzUbVqGrncxUd4cWuhI6xiiP4x3x8Da3fB2y96SXBPihVvFyRIj LQa3NWG9/2nlakhGq8g8lQpTSSw6QO0dln9g8peBjV1wkEFlqtZ3UooULvHm9TKU///Z YTrohebBFTs2thXrLj0Xlv9Vg9FFP2dyw65amIwinX5hSO/QrsANJ/EVngUwE02TuSbh Ld+JVBqpay817TiSucKj2X3EtxBhjrRoRNF0w+ZpLSTMY6+QqCNSuChbr2apYQNHf9QH bmG5F+Z60pjxUs1vFr++RSQJyZb26wFGFm83yXGp+gXbqzZtF63+5PgySnSpodVz/MYB RvIw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXvNAG1qrKzZnQxFFdc/TImSj3OCg3uiYLa9ZYhsqd2m1CiK4YT T+SqoDahyvo4GohOu/VZpYudkQxf X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzYDqZrB2qNYgz8GTHPokSPFepaq6a5zx7whBIarGXERQ/I+PqX4TXn+zqoS2gnXn2LGwcXSQ== X-Received: by 2002:a63:642:: with SMTP id 63mr432673pgg.73.1575592192656; Thu, 05 Dec 2019 16:29:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?IPv6:2607:fb90:a49f:ebc4:653a:e218:e4b0:ba78? ([2607:fb90:a49f:ebc4:653a:e218:e4b0:ba78]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id u26sm12876133pfn.46.2019.12.05.16.29.51 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 05 Dec 2019 16:29:52 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) From: Bob Hinden In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 16:29:51 -0800 Cc: Enno Rey , SPRING WG , 6man <6man@ietf.org>, "int-ads@ietf.org" , rtg-ads , Fernando Gont Message-Id: <52132FA9-669E-4B32-BDC8-6F06C98315F3@gmail.com> References: To: Ron Bonica X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (17B111) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 00:29:56 -0000 Hi, > On Dec 5, 2019, at 16:20, Ron Bonica wrote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BFEnno, >=20 > That is how I parse Ole's message. But we can let Ole speak for himself. To clarify, the current consensus is the text in RFC8200. =20 There is discussion ongoing in 6man on this topic, but it is impossible to s= ay how that will turn out, or when.=20 Bob >=20 > Ron >=20 >=20 >=20 > Juniper Business Use Only >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Enno Rey =20 > Sent: Thursday, December 5, 2019 5:48 PM > To: Ron Bonica > Cc: otroan@employees.org; Fernando Gont ; SPRING WG= ; 6man <6man@ietf.org>; int-ads@ietf.org; rtg-ads > Subject: Re: We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network Prog= ramming - Penultimate Segment Popping) >=20 > Hi Ron, >=20 >> On Thu, Dec 05, 2019 at 10:08:53PM +0000, Ron Bonica wrote: >> Peace Gentlemen, >>=20 >> For the purpose of this thread, I think that we have all of the informati= on that we need. Consensus regarding header insertion and removal is "evolvi= ng".=20 >=20 > not meaning to nitpick and admittedly I'm not super-familiar with all nuan= ces of IETF processes but this means that no type of consensus has been reac= hed yet, correct? >=20 > thanks >=20 > Enno >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >>=20 >> We need to let that evolution progress, and not make any assumptions rega= rding its outcome. >>=20 >> Ron >>=20 >>=20 >> Juniper Business Use Only >>=20 >> -----Original Message----- >> From: otroan@employees.org >> Sent: Thursday, December 5, 2019 4:42 PM >> To: Fernando Gont >> Cc: Ron Bonica ; SPRING WG ;=20 >> 6man <6man@ietf.org>; int-ads@ietf.org; rtg-ads=20 >> >> Subject: Re: We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network=20 >> Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping) >>=20 >> Fernando, >>=20 >>>>> Point taken. Could you comment on the current state of WG consensus? >>>>=20 >>>> The working group session in Singapore ended with what appeared to be a= view that we should continue work on both documents (Mark's and the Voyer d= raft). >>>> For the state of the wg consensus, I haven't checked with Bob, but I th= ink he will agree with it being classified as "evolving". >>>=20 >>> I polled you about this decision >>> (https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/i >>> pv=20 >>> 6/12Qwp_eeQT2EmbUrSxBLL5HTcnM__;!8WoA6RjC81c!QH6T9eu4QEGAh1tVtPAiXW2SjsZ= MxfQdUYen3nv2CPDS4DWlFeKu7c4TwztzwnbH$ ), and you never responded. >>=20 >> Sorry, which decision is that supposed to be? >>=20 >>> Suresh (INT AD) clarified this one list, here: >>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ip >>> v6=20 >>> /Db6_SGfmeIDzaE56Ps5kUDCYEzY__;!8WoA6RjC81c!QH6T9eu4QEGAh1tVtPAiXW2S >>> js ZMxfQdUYen3nv2CPDS4DWlFeKu7c4Tw1iPjJAl$ >>>=20 >>> Suresh noted that there wasn't consensus call, even at the f2f=20 >>> meeting (not to mention that the list was never polled in this respect).= >>=20 >> Right, neither of these two documents are adopted as working group docume= nts. And perhaps a more correct phrasing above would be that "The working gr= oup session in Singapore ended with what appeared to be a view that work cou= ld continue on both of these documents". >>=20 >>> I would say that it seems we have not been following the processes=20 >>> that should be followed. This has happened repeatedly over time, for=20 >>> this very same topic. The process seems to be biased, and thus=20 >>> unfair to the rest of the wg participants. >>=20 >> Which process are you talking about? Is that documented in an RFC? >> You seem to take it on yourself to represent the "rest of the wg particip= ants", but from my perspective it looks like a few very loud voices. >> Perhaps we should let others speak up, if there is anything more to be sa= id on this topic. >>=20 >> Ole >>=20 >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> IETF IPv6 working group mailing list >> ipv6@ietf.org >> Administrative Requests:=20 >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 >> __;!8WoA6RjC81c!TjLEU67_JCgw5HSu4C7UhFOC61xLkOhpmW0Ev51wqvHbECMOysxK3t >> 9RS5pxqO3g$ >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >=20 > -- > Enno Rey >=20 > Cell: +49 173 6745902 > Twitter: @Enno_Insinuator >=20 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Thu Dec 5 16:51:59 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6D2412020A; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 16:51:57 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HJLD79y-ICj7; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 16:51:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from fgont.go6lab.si (fgont.go6lab.si [91.239.96.14]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E56F3120046; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 16:51:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.4.77] (unknown [190.179.35.56]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by fgont.go6lab.si (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C02E186765; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 01:51:49 +0100 (CET) To: Bob Hinden , Ron Bonica Cc: SPRING WG , 6man <6man@ietf.org>, "int-ads@ietf.org" , rtg-ads References: <52132FA9-669E-4B32-BDC8-6F06C98315F3@gmail.com> From: Fernando Gont Autocrypt: addr=fgont@si6networks.com; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBE5so2gBEACzBQBLUy8nzgAzSZn6ViXT6TmZBFNYNqTpPRvTVtUqF6+tkI+IEd9N2E8p pXUXCd0W4dkxz6o7pagnK63m4QSueggvp881RVVHOF8oTSHOdnGxLfLeLNJFKE1FOutU3vod GK/wG/Fwzkv9MebdXpMlLV8nnJuAt66XGl/lU1JrNfrKO4SoYQi4TsB/waUQcygh7OR/PEO0 EttiU8kZUbZNv58WH+PAj/rdZCrgUSiGXiWUQQKShqKnJxLuAcTcg5YRwL8se/V6ciW0QR9i /sr52gSmLLbW5N3hAoO+nv1V/9SjJAUvzXu43k8sua/XlCXkqU7uLj41CRR72JeUZ4DQsYfP LfNPC98ZGTVxbWbFtLXxpzzDDT8i3uo7w1LJ2Ij/d5ezcARqw01HGljWWxnidUrjbTpxkJ9X EllcsH94mer728j/HKzC9OcTuz6WUBP3Crgl6Q47gY5ZIiF0lsmd9/wxbaq5NiJ+lGuBRZrD v0dQx9KmyI0/pH2AF8cW897/6ypvcyD/1/11CJcN+uAGIrklwJlVpRSbKbFtGC6In592lhu7 wnK8cgyP5cTU+vva9+g6P1wehi4bylXdlKc6mMphbtSA+T3WBNP557+mh3L62l4pGaEGidcZ DLYT2Ud18eAJmxU3HnM8P3iZZgeoK7oqgb53/eg96vkONXNIOwARAQABtCVGZXJuYW5kbyBH b250IDxmZ29udEBzaTZuZXR3b3Jrcy5jb20+iQJBBBMBAgArAhsjBQkSzAMABgsJCAcDAgYV CAIJCgsEFgIDAQIeAQIXgAUCTmylpQIZAQAKCRCuJQ1VHU50kv7wD/9fuNtTfxSLk3B3Hs3p ixTy8YXVjdkVwWlnJjFd7BOWmg7sI+LDhpjGfT6+ddOiwkumnvUZpObodj4ysH0i8c7P4C5t F9yu7WjklSlrB5Rth2CGChg5bKt541z2WHkFFxys9qBLmCSYDeKQkzLqhCjIUJizY2kOJ2GI MnSFDzJjhSFEh//oW830Y8fel1xnf/NVF+lBVtRMtMOfoWUqDjvP3sJ1G4zgkDCnF0CfncLx +hq2Mv26Uq9OTzvLH9aSQQ/f067BOkKAJKsfHdborX4E96ISTz57/4xECRSMr5dVsKVm4Y// uVIsb+L5z+a32FaiBZIAKDgnJO7Z8j6CV5e5yfuBTtX52Yi9HjYYqnYJGSDxYd6igD4bWu+7 xmJPHjkdqZgGV6dQIgiUfqkU+s5Cv350vK48CMaT/ZLo2BdsMhWsmaHmb+waePUMyq6E4E9x 9Js+EJb9ZiCfxS9exgieZQpet1L36IvhiwByvkQM009ywfa30JeMOltUtfLi5V06WQWsTzPL 5C+4cpkguSuAJVDTctjCA0moIeVDOpJ8WH9voQ4IeWapQnX35OIoj1jGJqqYdx65gc1ygbyx b8vw+pJ9E5GLse5TQnYifOWpXzX9053dtbwp/2OVhU4KLlzfCPCEsoTyfu9nIZxdI2PMwiL5 M85BfjX4NmwBLmPGoLkCDQRObKNoARAAqqXCkr250BchRDmi+05F5UQFgylUh10XTAJxBeaQ UNtdxZiZRm6jgomSrqeYtricM9t9K0qb4X2ZXmAMW8o8AYW3RrQHTjcBwMnAKzUIEXXWaLfG cid/ygmvWzIHgMDQKP+MUq1AGQrnvt/MRLvZLyczAV1RTXS58qNaxtaSpc3K/yrDozh/a4pu WcUsVvIkzyx43sqcwamDSBb6U8JFoZizuLXiARLLASgyHrrCedNIZdWSx0z0iHEpZIelA2ih AGLiSMtmtikVEyrJICgO81DkKNCbBbPg+7fi23V6M24+3syHk3IdQibTtBMxinIPyLFF0byJ aGm0fmjefhnmVJyCIl/FDkCHprVhTme57G2/WdoGnUvnT7mcwDRb8XY5nNRkOJsqqLPemKjz kx8mXdQbunXtX9bKyVgd1gIl+LLsxbdzRCch773UBVoortPdK3kMyLtZ4uMeDX3comjx+6VL bztUdJ1Zc9/njwVG8fgmQ+0Kj5+bzQfUY+MmX0HTXIx3B4R1I1a8QoOwi1N+iZNdewV5Zfq+ 29NlQLnVPjCRCKbaz9k6RJ2oIti55YUI6zSsL3lmlOXsRbXN5bRswFczkNSCJxJMlDiyAUIC WOay7ymzvgzPa+BY/mYn94vRaurDQ4/ljOfj6oqgfjts+dJev4Jj89vp8MQI3KJpZPEAEQEA AYkCJQQYAQIADwUCTmyjaAIbDAUJEswDAAAKCRCuJQ1VHU50km4xEACho45PZrUjY4Zl2opR DFNo5a6roTOPpgwO9PcBb3I5F8yX2Dnew+9OhgWXbBhAFq4DCx+9Gjs43Bn60qbZTDbLGJ/m 8N4PwEiq0e5MKceYcbetEdEUWhm5L6psU9ZZ82GR3UGxPXYe+oifEoJjOXQ39avf9S8p3yKP Diil0E79rn7LbJjMcgMLyjFg9SDoJ6pHLtniJoDhEAaSSgeV7Y745+gyMIdtQmrFHfqrFdjq D6G0HE+Z68ywc5KN67YxhvhBmSycs1ZSKAXv1zLDlXdmjHDHkU3xMcB+RkuiTba8yRFYwb/n j62CC4NhFTuIKOc4ta3dJsyXTGh/hO9UjWUnmAGfd0fnzTBZF8Qlnw/8ftx5lt4/O+eqY1EN RITScnPzXE/wMOlTtdkddQ+QN6xt6jyR2XtAIi7aAFHypIqA3lLI9hF9x+lj4UQ2yA9LqpoX 6URpPOd13JhAyDe47cwsP1u9Y+OBvQTVLSvw7Liu2b4KjqL4lx++VdBi7dXsjJ6kjIRjI6Lb WVpxe8LumMCuVDepTafBZ49gr7Fgc4F9ZSCo6ChgQNLn6WDzIkqFX+42KuHz90AHWhuW+KZR 1aJylERWeTcMCGUSBptd48KniWmD6kPKpzwoMkJtEXTuO2lVuborxzwuqOTNuYg9lWDl7zKt wPI9brGzquUHy4qRrA== Message-ID: <6c737fed-4e95-6e60-2585-c27099554eb4@si6networks.com> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 21:49:38 -0300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <52132FA9-669E-4B32-BDC8-6F06C98315F3@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 00:51:58 -0000 Hello, Bob, On 5/12/19 21:29, Bob Hinden wrote: > Hi, > >> On Dec 5, 2019, at 16:20, Ron Bonica wrote: >> >> Enno, >> >> That is how I parse Ole's message. But we can let Ole speak for himself. > > To clarify, the current consensus is the text in RFC8200. > > There is discussion ongoing in 6man on this topic, but it is impossible to say how that will turn out, or when. Thanks for the clarification! So we go back to the original issue: The document being lastcalled in spring/6man contains text (Penultimate Segment Popping) that causes the SRH to be removed while on flight to the destination. Since such text violates RFC8200, it should be removed from the document (in the same way that the authors have already removed the insertion part). Thanks! Cheers, -- Fernando Gont SI6 Networks e-mail: fgont@si6networks.com PGP Fingerprint: 6666 31C6 D484 63B2 8FB1 E3C4 AE25 0D55 1D4E 7492 From nobody Thu Dec 5 17:14:56 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4755D12004D; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 17:14:53 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.124 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.124 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD2=0.874, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=hotmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id x-d8NXFQmarX; 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charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable body { line-height: 1.5; }blockquote { margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom:= 0px; margin-left: 0.5em; }p { margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; }div.Fo= xDiv20191206090902997819 { }body { font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =E5=BE= =AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B=85=E9=BB=91; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); line-height: 1.5; }=0A= =0A=
Hello Bruno and all,

I don't thi= nk the issues discussed again and again in the earlier iterations have been= addressed in this version to be WGLCed.

Thanks fo= r Durren's recap as follows.
[2019-09-06]&= nbsp;https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/7zMgIwEY9AipZCCGO9KnT= 2CGH3o
[2019-09-27]&= nbsp;https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/4_Slu3kkHwduZZPFJJmRUkmoT= Vo
[2019-10-14]&= nbsp;https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/u536YH4tv7kKRq_b9_x9gBYpO= 9c
[2019-10-21]&= nbsp;https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/4pikRli_HSECun9AbwfpmOF5K= LI
[2019-12-04]&= nbsp;https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/oDWLbRDqKCaF5Xa-QvKY6mk_D= 5E
=0A=

And Ron's recap as follows.

=
Best Regards,
Zhenqiang Li
=0A=
li_zhenqiang@hotmail.com
=0A=
 
Date: 2019-1= 2-06 01:15
To: 'SPRING WG List'
CC: 6man@ietf.org; draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming
Subject: WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programmi= ng
=0A= =0A=
=0A= 
Hello SPR=
ING,
=0A= 
&nbs=
p;
=0A= 
This emai=
l starts a two weeks Working Group Last Call on draft-ietf-spring-srv6-netw=
ork-programming [1].
=0A= 
&nbs=
p;
=0A= 
Please re=
ad this document if you haven't read the most recent version, and send your=
 comments to the SPRING WG list, no later than December 20.
=0A= 
&nbs=
p;
=0A= 
You may c=
opy the 6MAN WG for IPv6 related comment, but consider not duplicating emai=
ls on the 6MAN mailing list for the comments which are only spring specific=
s.
=0A= 
&nbs=
p;
=0A= 
If you ar=
e raising a point which you expect will be specifically debated on the mail=
ing list, consider using a specific email/thread for this point.=
=0A= 
This may =
help avoiding that the thread become specific to this point and that other =
points get forgotten (or that the thread get converted into parallel indepe=
ndent discussions)
=0A= 
&nbs=
p;
=0A= 
Thank you=
,
=0A= 
Bruno
=0A= 
&nbs=
p;
=0A= 
[1] https://tools.ietf=
.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-05
=0A= 
&nbs=
p;
=0A=

 

=0A=
=0A= 
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Thanks, Ketan -----Original Message----- From: spring On Behalf Of bruno.decraene@orange.c= om Sent: 05 December 2019 22:20 To: 'SPRING WG List' ; draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-prog= ramming Subject: [spring] IPR poll for draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming Hi SPRING WG, In parallel to the WGLC for draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming, we = would like to poll for IPR. If you are aware of IPR that applies to draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-prog= ramming [1] please respond to this email. If you are aware of IPR, please i= ndicate whether it has been disclosed in accordance with IETF IPR rules (RF= Cs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 provide more details). If you are an *author or contributor* please respond to this email regardle= ss of whether or not you're aware of any IPR.=20 This document will not advance until IPR confirmations have been received f= rom all authors and contributors. Thank you, Bruno [1] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-= 05 ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou = copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez= le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Le= s messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline to= ute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used= or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been = modified, changed or falsified. 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Fri, 6 Dec 2019 02:34:11 +0000 From: "Zafar Ali (zali)" To: "Joel M. Halpern" , Ole Troan , 6man WG , SPRING WG CC: "Zafar Ali (zali)" Thread-Topic: 6man w.g. last call for Thread-Index: AQHVquT4fiT0mGN0ekCReZDXMAlj3aeqgDOAgAGReoA= Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 02:34:11 +0000 Message-ID: <8FAF234D-B5C9-42C7-B483-F57C4ECB349F@cisco.com> References: <15bc440b-1dbc-0930-137f-f016ca527c2c@joelhalpern.com> In-Reply-To: <15bc440b-1dbc-0930-137f-f016ca527c2c@joelhalpern.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/10.1f.0.191110 authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=zali@cisco.com; x-originating-ip: [2001:420:c0cc:1006::25] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 9e7fc76d-dcc8-42bb-5650-08d779f4c6fe x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: DM6PR11MB3673: x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:10000; x-forefront-prvs: 0243E5FD68 x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; 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(Postfix) with ESMTP id 47TcLm39rRz6G8Vl; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 18:42:24 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=joelhalpern.com; s=2.tigertech; t=1575600144; bh=+/Ws4LEUSVT1cLQvZDMvLoIsmYLxE8dBng9Iv2veXkk=; h=Subject:To:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=T4d8gWyyvoZ30IQBJW6rVGbav73b2bNesDHQUxus1JeGgyFtIm9V4r+SJh8LEFPwZ GgJwd3GeOU0rHNKz7io7OI1+g5zlLkTYtFXU946vCx3FnFBXeFo6BO+Vr0jf124lrd 4+JXWh8jPCLBcmcIUoKdkG+a7EPzFGVC5+ditOIs= X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at a2.tigertech.net Received: from [172.20.3.198] (unknown [45.225.71.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by maila2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 47TcLl4WDfz6G8Vh; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 18:42:23 -0800 (PST) To: "Zafar Ali (zali)" , 6man WG , SPRING WG References: <15bc440b-1dbc-0930-137f-f016ca527c2c@joelhalpern.com> <8FAF234D-B5C9-42C7-B483-F57C4ECB349F@cisco.com> From: "Joel M. Halpern" Message-ID: <6c3eabf3-410d-ecb6-324f-967544b29a30@joelhalpern.com> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 21:42:21 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <8FAF234D-B5C9-42C7-B483-F57C4ECB349F@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] 6man w.g. last call for X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 02:42:26 -0000 The normative behavior for the bits in various places says that the packet is punted to the control process. In and of itself, that is fine. However, in order for that to be useful, the control process has to know what to do with the packet when it gets there. In the classic case of router redirect, this is coupled with definition of various content to be processed by the router control logic. In the case of this document, there is no normative definition of what the control process is to do with the packet. And particularly since in many of the cases described the packet that is punted still has an SRH, normal packet processing would simply reach the same "punt" step. With nowhere to punt it. You asssume in the examples that some forms of parsing that bypass the NSH will take place. But processing does not take place by instinct or magic. It takes place because we write RFCs that describe what has to happen. Without some definition of the required parsing, and I believe (although I am guessing due to the lack of description) we also need some normative description of what the control process is required to do. Note that in most OAM, we define the behavior that is required, and then indicate where it is permitted to use the control plane to achieve it. This results in a clear specification, and implementation flexibility. Yours, Joel On 12/5/2019 9:34 PM, Zafar Ali (zali) wrote: > Hi Joel, > > I did not understand your comment. > > Can you please point to specific text in the draft for which the draft > needs to define normative behavior for the "node punt processor look > past the SRH and make determinations based on the content."? > > Thanks > > Regards … Zafar > > *From: *ipv6 on behalf of "Joel M. Halpern" > > *Date: *Wednesday, December 4, 2019 at 4:37 PM > *To: *Ole Troan , 6man WG , SPRING > WG > *Subject: *Re: 6man w.g. last call for > > I re-read this draft, and I am afraid it is currently under-specified. > > In order for the various examples to work, there is assumed behavior by > > the processor to which packets are punted.  I could not find where this > > normative behavior is described explicitly.  It appears that the > > behavior requires that the node "punt processor" look past the SRH and > > make determinations based on the content.  This needs to be described > > explicitly.  And it needs some discussion of why it is legitimate to > > look past the SRH when the SRH does not show SL=0. > > Yours, > > Joel > > On 12/4/2019 3:53 PM, Ole Troan wrote: > > Hello, > >     As agreed in the working group session in Singapore, this > message starts a new two week 6MAN Working Group Last Call on advancing: > >     Title    : Operations, Administration, and Maintenance (OAM) in > Segment Routing Networks with IPv6 Data plane (SRv6) > >     Author   : Z. Ali, C. Filsfils, S. Matsushima, D. Voyer, M. Chen > >     Filename : draft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6-oam-02 > >     Pages    : 23 > >     Date     : 2019-11-20 > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6-oam/ > > as a Proposed Standard. > > Substantive comments and statements of support for publishing this > document should be directed to the mailing list. > > Editorial suggestions can be sent to the author. This last call will > end on the 18th of December 2019. > > To improve document quality and ensure that bugs are caught as early > as possible, we would require at least > > two reviewers to do a complete review of the document.  Please let > the chairs know if you are willing to be a reviewer. > > The last call will be forwarded to the spring working group, with > discussion directed to the ipv6 list. > > Thanks, > > Bob & Ole, 6man co-chairs > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > > ipv6@ietf.org > > Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > > ipv6@ietf.org > > Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > From nobody Thu Dec 5 19:01:04 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D0E112004D; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 19:00:57 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=joelhalpern.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iFqOpIa3ABE1; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 19:00:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from maila2.tigertech.net (maila2.tigertech.net [208.80.4.152]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8754F12004C; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 19:00:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by maila2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47Tcm73MSgz6G8Vh; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 19:00:55 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=joelhalpern.com; s=2.tigertech; t=1575601255; bh=Pya3bmZiRlvdzqyl2l2YhGTlL885eTQePSTWxzQ81ds=; h=Subject:From:To:References:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=g5+fKhFjRfimZGOcnSC9kVKagcvv/61PoEPG1fE0rRrvxRDvCBMidefImvoolcEkG FgNKB+4RdPU+zIPpU5YRFGpqkaslzUQLRXV9NYBPSXoLq5vayRUYJMhiOXVIEUnxKf 0gYBWnIFe1k8IPmoHZendVoGoxgn7+hpOvl2TE0E= X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at a2.tigertech.net Received: from [172.20.3.198] (unknown [45.225.71.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by maila2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 47Tcm62zt9z6G8Vf; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 19:00:53 -0800 (PST) From: "Joel M. Halpern" To: "Zafar Ali (zali)" , 6man WG , SPRING WG References: <15bc440b-1dbc-0930-137f-f016ca527c2c@joelhalpern.com> <8FAF234D-B5C9-42C7-B483-F57C4ECB349F@cisco.com> <6c3eabf3-410d-ecb6-324f-967544b29a30@joelhalpern.com> Message-ID: <95afdc48-b88a-ab1f-f51f-13193ba5dc1c@joelhalpern.com> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 22:00:52 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <6c3eabf3-410d-ecb6-324f-967544b29a30@joelhalpern.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] 6man w.g. last call for X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 03:00:58 -0000 Sorry, minor typo. SRH, not NSH, in the 4th paragraph. Joel On 12/5/2019 9:42 PM, Joel M. Halpern wrote: > The normative behavior for the bits in various places says that the > packet is punted to the control process.  In and of itself, that is fine. > > However, in order for that to be useful, the control process has to know > what to do with the packet when it gets there.  In the classic case of > router redirect, this is coupled with definition of various content to > be processed by the router control logic. > > In the case of this document, there is no normative definition of what > the control process is to do with the packet.  And particularly since in > many of the cases described the packet that is punted still has an SRH, > normal packet processing would simply reach the same "punt" step.  With > nowhere to punt it. > > You asssume in the examples that some forms of parsing that bypass the > NSH will take place.  But processing does not take place by instinct or > magic.  It takes place because we write RFCs that describe what has to > happen.  Without some definition of the required parsing, and I believe > (although I am guessing due to the lack of description) we also need > some normative description of what the control process is required to do. > > Note that in most OAM, we define the behavior that is required, and then > indicate where it is permitted to use the control plane to achieve it. > This results in a clear specification, and implementation flexibility. > > Yours, > Joel > > On 12/5/2019 9:34 PM, Zafar Ali (zali) wrote: >> Hi Joel, >> >> I did not understand your comment. >> >> Can you please point to specific text in the draft for which the draft >> needs to define normative behavior for the "node punt processor look >> past the SRH and make determinations based on the content."? >> >> Thanks >> >> Regards … Zafar >> >> *From: *ipv6 on behalf of "Joel M. Halpern" >> >> *Date: *Wednesday, December 4, 2019 at 4:37 PM >> *To: *Ole Troan , 6man WG , >> SPRING WG >> *Subject: *Re: 6man w.g. last call for >> >> I re-read this draft, and I am afraid it is currently under-specified. >> >> In order for the various examples to work, there is assumed behavior by >> >> the processor to which packets are punted.  I could not find where this >> >> normative behavior is described explicitly.  It appears that the >> >> behavior requires that the node "punt processor" look past the SRH and >> >> make determinations based on the content.  This needs to be described >> >> explicitly.  And it needs some discussion of why it is legitimate to >> >> look past the SRH when the SRH does not show SL=0. >> >> Yours, >> >> Joel >> >> On 12/4/2019 3:53 PM, Ole Troan wrote: >> >>     Hello, >> >>          As agreed in the working group session in Singapore, this >>     message starts a new two week 6MAN Working Group Last Call on >> advancing: >> >>          Title    : Operations, Administration, and Maintenance (OAM) in >>     Segment Routing Networks with IPv6 Data plane (SRv6) >> >>          Author   : Z. Ali, C. Filsfils, S. Matsushima, D. Voyer, M. Chen >> >>          Filename : draft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6-oam-02 >> >>          Pages    : 23 >> >>          Date     : 2019-11-20 >> >>     https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6-oam/ >> >>     as a Proposed Standard. >> >>     Substantive comments and statements of support for publishing this >>     document should be directed to the mailing list. >> >>     Editorial suggestions can be sent to the author. This last call will >>     end on the 18th of December 2019. >> >>     To improve document quality and ensure that bugs are caught as early >>     as possible, we would require at least >> >>     two reviewers to do a complete review of the document.  Please let >>     the chairs know if you are willing to be a reviewer. >> >>     The last call will be forwarded to the spring working group, with >>     discussion directed to the ipv6 list. >> >>     Thanks, >> >>     Bob & Ole, 6man co-chairs >> >>     -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>     IETF IPv6 working group mailing list >> >>     ipv6@ietf.org >> >>     Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 >> >>     -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> IETF IPv6 working group mailing list >> >> ipv6@ietf.org >> >> Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Thu Dec 5 19:53:13 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5976B120072; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 19:53:11 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bf97S7Qy6Vbj; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 19:53:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 661CE12000F; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 19:53:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.108]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id CC6A4BD0E4B223D45632; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 03:53:05 +0000 (GMT) Received: from lhreml730-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.81) by lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.45) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 03:53:05 +0000 Received: from lhreml730-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.81) by lhreml730-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.81) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256) id 15.1.1713.5; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 03:53:05 +0000 Received: from DGGEMM422-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.1.198.39) by lhreml730-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.81) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_0, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA) id 15.1.1713.5 via Frontend Transport; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 03:53:05 +0000 Received: from DGGEMM532-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.7.92]) by dggemm422-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.1.198.39]) with mapi id 14.03.0439.000; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 11:53:01 +0800 From: Lizhenbin To: "bruno.decraene@orange.com" , 'SPRING WG List' , draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming Thread-Topic: IPR poll for draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming Thread-Index: AdWri8PrYNknLVMMSPK3l23i6uOM3wATYLpwAAPOjpA= Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 03:53:01 +0000 Message-ID: <5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D93578981@DGGEMM532-MBX.china.huawei.com> References: <26660_1575564615_5DE93547_26660_39_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D1A2A9@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.206.84] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] IPR poll for draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 03:53:11 -0000 I am not aware of any undisclosed IPR on this document. Best Regards, Zhenbin (Robin) -----Original Message----- From: spring On Behalf Of bruno.decraene@orange.c= om Sent: 05 December 2019 22:20 To: 'SPRING WG List' ; draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-prog= ramming Subject: [spring] IPR poll for draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming Hi SPRING WG, In parallel to the WGLC for draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming, we = would like to poll for IPR. If you are aware of IPR that applies to draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-prog= ramming [1] please respond to this email. If you are aware of IPR, please i= ndicate whether it has been disclosed in accordance with IETF IPR rules (RF= Cs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 provide more details). If you are an *author or contributor* please respond to this email regardle= ss of whether or not you're aware of any IPR.=20 This document will not advance until IPR confirmations have been received f= rom all authors and contributors. Thank you, Bruno [1] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-= 05 ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou = copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez= le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Le= s messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline to= ute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used= or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments. 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Thank you. _______________________________________________ spring mailing list spring@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring From tadas@noia.network Thu Dec 5 23:07:37 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CE4112008B for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 23:07:37 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=noia-network.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9YIa4S28Wrzd for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 23:07:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-il1-x12f.google.com (mail-il1-x12f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::12f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 55368120088 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 23:07:34 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-il1-x12f.google.com with SMTP id a7so5380584ild.6 for ; Thu, 05 Dec 2019 23:07:34 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=noia-network.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=d3gXOeE+NQ+ypl3CErcsTGOIq6pemfpsYpaW+YHoRKs=; b=TKr7V3c3jhMCxL7Et+2TdpI6hb1e8sfKO89yWr4iUDHAOF7mxhoQiOUwliHZ+ieAOM 8n7n0BoDvrnQH8bjEQGzC/EC0Rx/i7b96XN6o+iWqQG7yHN3aTmE6J8P/5UXEKYKhgop l3OcgHW6vGl3YZZtkLxXWXhSwkGCwO66q+h8Qv2aSyUWAOFObTHbxikMsZAelIndz/jV Azp9+LgisrS4TCgJeF1I7RH04Z9Zvp4ldIdJmpaUGBaRWyYIdLkoUNk4PVZOB+l4vRcj Lfiyyd/LwilH6anVifrRz1a9jMnXhUKuItl5pbDJmnQmUBGFKWrPB/Rb/XNozVAimJmA OAKQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=d3gXOeE+NQ+ypl3CErcsTGOIq6pemfpsYpaW+YHoRKs=; b=e+BLprYqqN7nVA9zJUkU4DiD/xaAwOnjOfDxBlMdu2gum80flc97O1Waf+fA4f9vRf O1D20hd2Volzf2eKqPMq9kLiaBiM1r5LrvnbqDaTStfC1Vz5svkDZccz5wYAEr9l60Bg M8Vk8RNHd2B8vuFhc2AMH8K2896/FfbFEDeCgQfPIoj+PL//BEt36rIN2VlWVGMJmRRF J0jvnJa75fkjDkwwQQGb/JQdF1UCVXFbGbRSH7866o3VUP+PxOr82T4qtCvIcfWa5fII ecyriTUHyKdc092ZJfxVIYgubKTe/MOdy0TaurBUk9OVv+zI1HgzXH3spKNg7aYA4ODA AOfg== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUJ45D0vIzn1JW9tPzG+eViOk+f5HztVuQ87rQBqcLJeM/vaiTa IOwU90RyPmuzkmIQvE3vjZC77NoApAtuGU/T++cwdzwubeg= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqy4Ta97pMFcs0T7IF1RSstGjk9awbUCWwIJsYvp4y+EWA4WyKvSjJfVZ6mAhQziOUGKt+oUXLanIDz6m/U83do= X-Received: by 2002:a92:46c5:: with SMTP id d66mr13525614ilk.232.1575616054060; Thu, 05 Dec 2019 23:07:34 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Tadas Planciunas Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 09:07:23 +0200 Message-ID: To: spring@ietf.org, satoru.matsushima@g.softbank.co.jp, zali@cisco.com Cc: Jonas Simanavicius , "Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000003481d1059903b3f9" Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 00:06:30 -0800 Subject: [spring] SPRING SRv6 Deployment Status draft X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 07:39:17 -0000 --0000000000003481d1059903b3f9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Zefar, Satoru, In the next draft of https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-matsushima-spring-srv6-deployment-st= atus/, we'd like to be added to the section =E2=80=9C2. Deployment Status=E2=80= =9D as we have significant progress on our SRv6 deployment: *NOIA Network (https://noia.network )* NOIA Network is Internet Technology company creating a cutting-edge SRv6 stack implementation and backbone for managing private and distributed mesh networks. Our software deployment consists of Orchestration, Analytics, Agent, Controller, Business Intelligence (AI) and several product Interfaces to access the network. Project whitepaper and tokenomics model can be found here: https://noia.network/programmable-internet-whitepaper and https://noia.network/tokenomics-whitepaper NOIA Network have deployed a nationwide SRv6 network backbone. The SRv6 backbone is based on white box or cloud routers with FD.io VPP or Linux srext module installed. The following SRv6 features have been deployed: - A Segment Routing Header [I-D.ietf-6man-segment-routing-header] based data plane. - END , END.X, END.DT4, End.DT6 functions as per [I-D.filsfils-spring-srv6-network-programming]. - iOAM Proof of Transit and Trace options as per [I-D.ietf-ippm-ioam-data]. - BFD for Multihop Paths as per [I-D.ietf-bfd-multihop]. - Topology Independent (TI-LFA) Fast Reroute mechanisms leveraging - SRv6 for the O(50msec) protection against node and link, as described in [I-D.ietf-rtgwg-segment-routing-ti-lfa]. Thank you. --=20 Pagarbiai / Regards IT Manager, Dev Lead @ NOIA Network +370 614 68669 https://noia.network/ --0000000000003481d1059903b3f9 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Zefar, Satoru,

In the next draft of = =C2=A0https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/= draft-matsushima-spring-srv6-deployment-status/, we'd like to be ad= ded to the section =E2=80=9C2.=C2=A0 Deployment Status=E2=80=9D as we have = significant progress on our SRv6 deployment:

NOIA Network (https://noia.network)<= br>
NOIA Network is Internet Technology company creating a cutting-edge = SRv6 stack implementation and backbone for managing private and distributed= mesh networks.

Our software deployment consists of Orchestration, A= nalytics, Agent, Controller, Business Intelligence (AI) and several product= Interfaces to access the network.

Project whitepaper and tokenomics= model can be found here: https://noia.network/programmable-internet-whitepaper= =C2=A0and https://no= ia.network/tokenomics-whitepaper

NOIA Network have deployed a na= tionwide SRv6 network backbone. The SRv6 backbone is based on white box or = cloud routers with FD.io VPP or Linux srext module installed.

The fo= llowing SRv6 features have been deployed:
  • A Segment Routing Head= er [I-D.ietf-6man-segment-routing-header] based data plane.
  • END , E= ND.X, END.DT4, End.DT6 functions as per [I-D.filsfils-spring-srv6-network-p= rogramming].
  • iOAM Proof of Transit and Trace options as per [I-D.i= etf-ippm-ioam-data].
  • BFD for Multihop Paths as per [I-D.ietf-bfd-mu= ltihop].
  • Topology Independent (TI-LFA) Fast Reroute mechanisms leve= raging
  • SRv6 for the O(50msec) protection against node and link, as = described in [I-D.ietf-rtgwg-segment-routing-ti-lfa].

Thank you.

--

Pagarbiai= / Regards

IT Mana= ger, Dev Lead @=C2=A0NOIA=C2=A0Network

+370 61= 4 68669

https://noia.network/

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charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable body { line-height: 1.5; }blockquote { margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom:= 0px; margin-left: 0.5em; }body { font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =E5=BE=AE= =E8=BD=AF=E9=9B=85=E9=BB=91; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); line-height: 1.5; }=0A=
Hello Ole and all,

I re-read thi= s version again with the following comments for the WGLC.

1. Section 4.2.2.2, the penultimate= bullet.

The sentence "The tracer= oute process at node N4 checks if i= ts local SID (B:2:C31) is locally programmed" should be "The trac= eroute process at node N4 checks if its local SID (B:4:C52) is locally programmed".

=0A=

2. Requirements Language
[RFC8174] should be = added as a nomative reference.

3. Section 3.5 SRH = TLV
This section only tells us SRH TLV is defined in ietf-6m= an-segment-routing-header, nothing else. I think this section should be rem= oved.

4. Section 4.3 Monitoring of SRv6 Paths=
This section is a story or a use case. No specification is defin= ed in this section. It should be removed or moved to an appendix.

5. Section 2.1 Abbreviations
ICMPv6 is defin= ed in RFC4443. Why does this draft use it as multi-part ICMPv6 defined= in RFC4884. This is confusing.

6. Section 4.1.3&n= bsp;Error Reporting
ICMPv6 is defined in ICMPv6 related RFCs. Doe= s this section want to extend ICMPv6? If yes, I don't think this doc is the= appropriate place. If no, why do we need this section? to emphasize the th= ings that a router should do?

With all the commets= above, I don't think this doc is mature enough to pass the WGLC.

Best Regards,
Zhenqiang Li
=0A=
li_zhenqiang@hotmail.com
=0A=
 
From: Ole Troan
Date: 201= 9-12-05 04:53
= CC: 6man Chairs
Subject: 6man w.g. last call for <draft-ietf-6man-spr= ing-srv6-oam>
Hello,
=0A=
 
=0A=
  As agreed in the working group session in Singapore, this messa= ge starts a new two week 6MAN Working Group Last Call on advancing:
= =0A=
 
=0A=
  Title    : Operations, Administration, and Maint= enance (OAM) in Segment Routing Networks with IPv6 Data plane (SRv6)
= =0A=
  Author   : Z. Ali, C. Filsfils, S. Matsushima, D. Voy= er, M. Chen
=0A=
  Filename : draft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6-oam-02
=0A=
  Pages    : 23
=0A=
  Date     : 2019-11-20
=0A=
           &nbs= p;             =
=0A=
    https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-6man-sp= ring-srv6-oam/
=0A=
 
=0A=
as a Proposed Standard. 
=0A=
 
=0A=
Substantive comments and statements of support for publishing this doc= ument should be directed to the mailing list.
=0A=
Editorial suggestions can be sent to the author. This last call will e= nd on the 18th of December 2019.
=0A=
 
=0A=
To improve document quality and ensure that bugs are caught as early a= s possible, we would require at least
=0A=
two reviewers to do a complete review of the document.  Please le= t the chairs know if you are willing to be a reviewer.
=0A=
 
=0A=
The last call will be forwarded to the spring working group, with disc= ussion directed to the ipv6 list.
=0A=
 
=0A=
Thanks,
=0A=
Bob & Ole, 6man co-chairs
=0A=
 
=0A=
 
=0A=
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=0A=
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=0A=
Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6=0A=
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2019 00:34:53 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vZnw6BxO2B3A; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 00:34:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from clarinet.employees.org (clarinet.employees.org [198.137.202.74]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 42F6E12000F; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 00:34:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from astfgl.hanazo.no (77.16.49.136.tmi.telenormobil.no [77.16.49.136]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by clarinet.employees.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 9016B4E11AC6; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 08:34:50 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by astfgl.hanazo.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA4F32519094; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 09:34:46 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.0 \(3601.0.10\)) From: otroan@employees.org In-Reply-To: <20191205222740.GA9637@ernw.de> Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 09:34:46 +0100 Cc: Fernando Gont , rtg-ads , SPRING WG , 6man <6man@ietf.org>, "int-ads@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <3AD3BD11-8C34-41FE-B88F-49A9F2561D78@cisco.com> <8DEDE597-B7B0-48F5-959E-69757315C2AC@employees.org> <4FAB68A3-C533-471D-94D0-3F6EB1F32FC1@employees.org> <1e36a492-5931-02de-cf85-63339522b13a@si6networks.com> <8A9BC46E-A018-41C0-BE47-4BABC30EFE79@employees.org> <20191205222740.GA9637@ernw.de> To: Enno Rey X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3601.0.10) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 08:34:53 -0000 Enno, >>> comply with it. The onus is on them, not on us asking folks to = comply >>> with existing standards. >>=20 >> Yes, we have heard your position on this now. >> There is of course a lot more nuance to this argument. >=20 > could you please explain said 'nuance' in more detail? I could try, although I fear it will be a rehash of what has already = been said many times already in this debate. The IETF and the Internet architecture has a pugnacious relationship = with packet mangling in the network. Steve embodied the Internet architeure principles in the IPv6 protocol = suite. The IPv6 architecture consists only of routers and hosts (no = middleboxes). Ensuring that routers would not need to process further into the packet = than the IPv6 header, and ensure that extension header chains were = expensive to parse in hardware. As well as requiring all implementations = to support IPsec. Knowing that encryption was the only way to guarantee = end to end transparency. Now, contrast that with the "real world", I challenge you to find a = service on the Internet where the packet isn't mangled in some way = between the two end-points. Be that IPv4 or IPv6. The problems with header insertion on the open Internet are well = understood. That's not what is being discussed here though. What is discussed here is what is acceptable to do within a limited = domain. To packets that _you_ own, i.e. originate and terminate within a domain = where you control all devices. If I own and manage three routers, R1 -- R2 -- R3. You are saying that if R1 sends a packet to R3, it is not allowed to = off-load some functions to R2? Going to be difficult to do stuff like service chaining then. When putting in the restrictions in RFC8200, which makes a lot of sense = on the open Internet, it was always clear that there could and would be = exceptions to this. Those are the ones we are discussing now. Conflating the two use cases and claiming that the arguments for why = it's a bad idea on the open Internet also applies to a limited domain, = only serves to polarise the debate. My suspicion is that the header insertion argument is a straw-man. Best regards, Ole From nobody Fri Dec 6 07:09:35 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 586E61200B1; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 07:09:34 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=joelhalpern.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vOkGUcIrJPJo; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 07:09:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from maila2.tigertech.net (maila2.tigertech.net [208.80.4.152]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 92781120020; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 07:09:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by maila2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47Twwr3lvVz6G8W0; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 07:09:32 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=joelhalpern.com; s=2.tigertech; t=1575644972; bh=8h+7Cs82YCdJWyWBCSHMpzJBUd597NpOyNk75zvR+DA=; h=Subject:To:Cc:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=qNscsvyREr23ppNidpiC/gN2uEYy1klDhxcTSS2aqLlEOvjvkFZ8/uePIP/BvXjxE oHE/AIS6ltGOSiYX02m9TiQ+06OSCW+NfCYu86R76TDtejsP14EcOzZiD6ULW4VVGr Og6IO+nFhk7SyZVv5KtvDr/rCSSiiX9UkBgu+GDQ= X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at a2.tigertech.net Received: from [172.20.3.198] (unknown [45.225.71.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by maila2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 47Twwq4jMZz6G8Vy; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 07:09:31 -0800 (PST) To: otroan@employees.org Cc: SPRING WG , 6man <6man@ietf.org> References: <3AD3BD11-8C34-41FE-B88F-49A9F2561D78@cisco.com> <8DEDE597-B7B0-48F5-959E-69757315C2AC@employees.org> <4FAB68A3-C533-471D-94D0-3F6EB1F32FC1@employees.org> <1e36a492-5931-02de-cf85-63339522b13a@si6networks.com> <8A9BC46E-A018-41C0-BE47-4BABC30EFE79@employees.org> <20191205222740.GA9637@ernw.de> From: "Joel M. Halpern" Message-ID: <430da027-07a7-42f9-60d0-bbb3f3306222@joelhalpern.com> Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 10:09:29 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 15:09:34 -0000 Ole, there is no IETF accepted definition of "limited domain". There is no IETF rough consensus that it is sensible for us to standardize things for "limtied domains". While there are standards that are designed for specific deployments, they do not to date use that as an excuse to violate existing RFCs. Hence, as far as I can tell, the assertion that SRv6 is for limited domains does not justify or excuse violating RFC 8200. And "I want to save some bytes", while very nice, is not a sufficient reason to violate an approved RFC, must less a Full Standard. Yours, Joel On 12/6/2019 3:34 AM, otroan@employees.org wrote: > Enno, > >>>> comply with it. The onus is on them, not on us asking folks to comply >>>> with existing standards. >>> >>> Yes, we have heard your position on this now. >>> There is of course a lot more nuance to this argument. >> >> could you please explain said 'nuance' in more detail? > > I could try, although I fear it will be a rehash of what has already been said many times already in this debate. > > The IETF and the Internet architecture has a pugnacious relationship with packet mangling in the network. > Steve embodied the Internet architeure principles in the IPv6 protocol suite. > The IPv6 architecture consists only of routers and hosts (no middleboxes). > Ensuring that routers would not need to process further into the packet than the IPv6 header, and ensure that extension header chains were expensive to parse in hardware. As well as requiring all implementations to support IPsec. Knowing that encryption was the only way to guarantee end to end transparency. > > Now, contrast that with the "real world", I challenge you to find a service on the Internet where the packet isn't mangled in some way between the two end-points. Be that IPv4 or IPv6. > > The problems with header insertion on the open Internet are well understood. > > That's not what is being discussed here though. > What is discussed here is what is acceptable to do within a limited domain. > To packets that _you_ own, i.e. originate and terminate within a domain where you control all devices. > > If I own and manage three routers, R1 -- R2 -- R3. > You are saying that if R1 sends a packet to R3, it is not allowed to off-load some functions to R2? > Going to be difficult to do stuff like service chaining then. > > When putting in the restrictions in RFC8200, which makes a lot of sense on the open Internet, it was always clear that there could and would be exceptions to this. Those are the ones we are discussing now. > > Conflating the two use cases and claiming that the arguments for why it's a bad idea on the open Internet also applies to a limited domain, only serves to polarise the debate. > > My suspicion is that the header insertion argument is a straw-man. > > Best regards, > Ole > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > From nobody Fri Dec 6 07:12:59 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BE731200B1; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 07:12:57 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.3 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.3 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=steffann.nl Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8myZsDccP_LQ; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 07:12:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.sintact.nl (mail.sintact.nl [83.247.10.6]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6163F1200C5; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 07:12:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.sintact.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 092334B; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 16:12:53 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=steffann.nl; h= x-mailer:references:in-reply-to:date:date:subject:subject :mime-version:content-type:content-type:message-id:from:from :received:received; s=mail; t=1575645170; bh=fswxa8gHjX9eqShi2gx vrkkiPBoLr8q2MNVXFI2d3N8=; b=fzlZLr1kt8XMfYc6PSGKdI0vMLXFhBr6ART rHNy1rXvzzVjhFHGh9bQcIUgSY2PnlVBz8ZcDUbZwpGcMYRsjVqNBBDtxqvQeACt v5H10kJxoiK4I0jxUnzt+mXQck/qCPpU3abfwGbuTFsnz4jKJpK5YTtex6oReweX mdDwlch8= X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at mail.sintact.nl Received: from mail.sintact.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.sintact.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id CgEVR7KmDF8v; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 16:12:50 +0100 (CET) Received: from [IPv6:2a02:a213:a300:ce80:6075:199d:31e0:cdef] (unknown [IPv6:2a02:a213:a300:ce80:6075:199d:31e0:cdef]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mail.sintact.nl (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id EB31749; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 16:12:49 +0100 (CET) X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett From: Sander Steffann Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_11F47E7E-ECB8-4145-8638-321712A3F9E5"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha256 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.0 \(3594.4.19\)) Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 16:12:48 +0100 In-Reply-To: Cc: Enno Rey , rtg-ads , Fernando Gont , SPRING WG , 6man <6man@ietf.org>, "int-ads@ietf.org" To: Ole Troan References: <3AD3BD11-8C34-41FE-B88F-49A9F2561D78@cisco.com> <8DEDE597-B7B0-48F5-959E-69757315C2AC@employees.org> <4FAB68A3-C533-471D-94D0-3F6EB1F32FC1@employees.org> <1e36a492-5931-02de-cf85-63339522b13a@si6networks.com> <8A9BC46E-A018-41C0-BE47-4BABC30EFE79@employees.org> <20191205222740.GA9637@ernw.de> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3594.4.19) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 15:12:58 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_11F47E7E-ECB8-4145-8638-321712A3F9E5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi Ole, > If I own and manage three routers, R1 -- R2 -- R3. > You are saying that if R1 sends a packet to R3, it is not allowed to = off-load some functions to R2? > Going to be difficult to do stuff like service chaining then. This bit I don't mind that much, but what about: R1 -- R2 -- [open internet] -- R3 or R1 -- [open internet] -- R2 -- R3 or even R1 -- [open internet] -- R2 -- [open internet] -- R3 And what if you're an ISP and R1 is your customer's device? It is in = your routing domain but not in your administrative domain. What then? > When putting in the restrictions in RFC8200, which makes a lot of = sense on the open Internet, it was always clear that there could and = would be exceptions to this. Those are the ones we are discussing now. This has never been clear to me. Quite the opposite actually=E2=80=A6 There was a reason the text discussing this was tightened while RFC8200 = was still a draft. > Conflating the two use cases and claiming that the arguments for why = it's a bad idea on the open Internet also applies to a limited domain, = only serves to polarise the debate. The problem is in the definition (and viability) of a domain. > My suspicion is that the header insertion argument is a straw-man. Not to me. I care about my packets not being mangled by a third party = (my ISP). If there is a way that they can mangle the packet and restore = it to its original 100% of the time before a box outside the ISP network = is able to see it (for debugging or whatever) then I don't mind. I care = about observable behaviour, and whether my ISP uses MPLS, SR or = something else isn't my problem. But the moment the packet leaves their = network it'd better be exactly as I sent it. And the way the domain is = defined, as well as the operator experience with limited domains, points = to potential leaks. Cheers, Sander --Apple-Mail=_11F47E7E-ECB8-4145-8638-321712A3F9E5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEEl13OIanoifT0p8LWWPjdc9pon8sFAl3qb/AACgkQWPjdc9po n8uHgw/+IhXRhsTn/btMD425lzUaw5xkcccK6hNZvYJ5vG34b5ZbHUT5sjMYXG+Q das03ESAppElMo9FAzlF2sIGfBnetpzbKcU9jMPAAS9vhck5ldUV6YUZumW2wc/2 Uk3HmYNi44kbzswdOErE8ok3lombiR0Fg+LRjLuB1EdakMpnvx1eorsPktQNCI0a EDufY9kURG943eLDhHEliW3z4THWTYGCCdDKOXisQb/eIR5Yiv1Q+U58T/Gzdfxb xTFcqTJ20lBC6ubJvqKLh5j3kLWzwOXwyV3siYWlGQrujCKMqOQbslNfNk4Rc6Oi UMrrqa05cXn0PvWzeSe4rqOyuG8J24fANsNMT862hH1b1/WnjYlgxzGJjeTnYFg/ JZEo70sBj3JVIuxvenTbSA2LE8Z2AYmQ9WgHOFKBRl4pIbOPGNr9NOndsG2prKoF roU6i9VR2+OLPv/0oBGlw3WSp9siOKD0Lty0fozs4F00S+OUi3hFLBFv2xgPtVL9 XyakTnhefOIO8qbC37ixTIfYP7OoGGkSiodr1Sa+pte/69YR1kwTeqvhBC3NaEqE bYhRTbUtxGkY4QJV2DTdQ0RWTPbh7qabmx9WjCqyV1/DdsPILRaQLBJVMFuSeLWC 25QiolHRIDocqEC+OQ6MDHKNsMIxdWJ3nInyol9BG7xTLkYpvPo= =IxDw -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_11F47E7E-ECB8-4145-8638-321712A3F9E5-- From nobody Fri Dec 6 07:14:57 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63B5B120829; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 07:14:55 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=steffann.nl Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Qr0MUNYekUkq; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 07:14:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.sintact.nl (mail.sintact.nl [IPv6:2001:9e0:803::6]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 13D6112081F; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 07:14:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.sintact.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 116C449; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 16:14:52 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=steffann.nl; h= x-mailer:references:in-reply-to:date:date:subject:subject :mime-version:content-type:content-type:message-id:from:from :received:received; s=mail; t=1575645290; bh=QrgeA+ThHLSpuPmEbQo dTGYDyTR2QvAl+lTodDJAgeA=; b=LREt6+QvWlWuCT5wVzTamuZ2bA1NgI4+fVR RVrbp5utcAc6oz0wSa2K9caeht+FKQ9A7gQi1yLqj7TV3DZxsju5yCfI676OW3P6 MUOPFAx7Rj/wzs+QMZoNFoRmxW8GXIFUUu+c9h3IX8Wh8Z1YSbP3oqP+r/J0jNp/ pMVd1l4U= X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at mail.sintact.nl Received: from mail.sintact.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.sintact.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id C9Hqe1ttPqsV; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 16:14:50 +0100 (CET) Received: from [IPv6:2a02:a213:a300:ce80:6075:199d:31e0:cdef] (unknown [IPv6:2a02:a213:a300:ce80:6075:199d:31e0:cdef]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mail.sintact.nl (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 00FAD3C; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 16:14:49 +0100 (CET) X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett From: Sander Steffann Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_96D4DF36-06E7-4733-B940-DCF5C9679A9C"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha256 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.0 \(3594.4.19\)) Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 16:14:48 +0100 In-Reply-To: <17421_1575566127_5DE93B2F_17421_93_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D1A3DA@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Cc: SPRING WG List , "6man@ietf.org" <6man@ietf.org>, draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming To: bruno.decraene@orange.com References: <17421_1575566127_5DE93B2F_17421_93_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D1A3DA@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3594.4.19) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 15:14:55 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_96D4DF36-06E7-4733-B940-DCF5C9679A9C Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi, > This email starts a two weeks Working Group Last Call on = draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming [1]. >=20 > Please read this document if you haven't read the most recent version, = and send your comments to the SPRING WG list, no later than December 20. I think there are plenty of already documented reasons that this draft = should have never been thrown into WGLC in the first place. Therefore I do not consent. Sander --Apple-Mail=_96D4DF36-06E7-4733-B940-DCF5C9679A9C Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEEl13OIanoifT0p8LWWPjdc9pon8sFAl3qcGgACgkQWPjdc9po n8uOmw//b/PB5qvykXBNg6e3crKNxZlqpfm4TV6lsV/DmFNnjN2z9DPsyuJHfNZo 9MQQQnBRSrbsVp/wkvacjqJxT/SOeU2M2eWFI+SpI8Ozr5tjkuQARqRCKe15Mh9E 7AcRQ3jXqpUHYMvOa7p9YDo9hafYxdp1IgGEsPiQjZuKryHoMKXhqCR171WiYJpG 3RgqeRBItGemYsv3e5eVpxmPIyAwOJsGWDNUXWBTFsptoSm/1EZhAUJ5qAMIWhgh 3H4GEXMrIPtoJ5NzgDAjcYEbkB72Ck3pYLx++ijytRYZgRZQFB99FBp4riHDSldP t0xi+nISu2bjMJ22MSNoOYykRVrh6YintWIbU+9NuH4jMhF3EpAHv2tKiFpjbtMZ FXJDNderLsbrpGo7ZhNrfzTzoKXNb7Q/tfYRQJ3q2Jo2Qfkc+Rv7cuzjihvDUYzv DhP90R+tfA7jlIf3rT0gDPH31hn3O6uwpmNFFeUisIEcRvw2RZJSn66gm2e1JqCY OZd3FbM3zhirOEryKHd7kQKukK+MHvyx9zRL5mLukp1KEE0yE9rBuUVyB696oWey tei83YUiir3jHo55oaxo/D/E2eZFxdfMZ3hQurDjeLkwB0CD7mPLxpvNNCYVHM8o q2mpMezdHwD8+QGMZFhqNqQVCBbLrKnOXLZuMIVr6S4Kjbt7Bbk= =wPIy -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_96D4DF36-06E7-4733-B940-DCF5C9679A9C-- From nobody Fri Dec 6 07:39:21 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F51F120844; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 07:39:19 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.587 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.587 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_HTML_ATTACH=0.01, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id i46dlFG6pBAy; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 07:39:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from relais-inet.orange.com (relais-inet.orange.com [80.12.70.34]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0B24C1200B1; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 07:39:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from opfednr05.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.69]) by opfednr23.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 47Txb458ZZz5yQL; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 16:39:12 +0100 (CET) Received: from Exchangemail-eme6.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.13.45]) by opfednr05.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 47Txb441lSzyQh; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 16:39:12 +0100 (CET) Received: from OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::b846:2467:1591:5d9d]) by OPEXCAUBM42.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::1c8e:403e:fbea:5835%21]) with mapi id 14.03.0468.000; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 16:39:12 +0100 From: To: "Pengshuping (Peng Shuping)" CC: "spring@ietf.org" , "spring-chairs@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Minutes for SPRING sessions at IETF 106 Singapore Thread-Index: AdWrGPNk5pbMCpyPQKacqeXo2eeQrwBMgy7w Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 15:39:11 +0000 Message-ID: <10138_1575646752_5DEA7620_10138_407_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D1C620@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <4278D47A901B3041A737953BAA078ADE14B1308F@DGGEML532-MBX.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <4278D47A901B3041A737953BAA078ADE14B1308F@DGGEML532-MBX.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.247] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="_005_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D1C620OPEXCAUBM43corp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Minutes for SPRING sessions at IETF 106 Singapore X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 15:39:20 -0000 --_005_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D1C620OPEXCAUBM43corp_ Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D1C620OPEXCAUBM43corp_" --_000_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D1C620OPEXCAUBM43corp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Shuping, Thank you for taking the minutes. Please find enclosed a proposed update (with diff highlighted). Nothing that significant, but sending on the list with diff for transparenc= y. Regards, Bruno From: spring [mailto:spring-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Pengshuping (Pen= g Shuping) Sent: Thursday, December 5, 2019 4:12 AM To: spring@ietf.org Subject: [spring] Minutes for SPRING sessions at IETF 106 Singapore Hi all, The minutes for the two SPRING sessions at IETF 106 can be found at: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/106/materials/minutes-106-spring-01.txt Please let me know if any changes may be needed. Thank you! Regards, Shuping ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el= ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been = modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. --_000_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D1C620OPEXCAUBM43corp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Shuping,

 

Thank you for taking the minutes.

Please find enclosed a proposed update (with diff highlighted).<= /o:p>

Nothing that significant, but sending on the list with diff for trans= parency.

 

Regards,

Bruno

 =

From: spring [mailto:spring-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Pengshuping (P= eng Shuping)
Sent: Thursday, December 5, 2019 4:12 AM
To: spring@ietf.org
Subject: [spring] Minutes for SPRING sessions at IETF 106 Singapore<= o:p>

 

Hi all,

 

The minutes for the two SPRING sessions = at IETF 106 can be found at:

 

https://datatracker.ietf.org/= meeting/106/materials/minutes-106-spring-01.txt

 

Please let me know if any changes may be ne= eded. Thank you!

 

Regards,

Shuping

 

______________________________________________________________________=
___________________________________________________

Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden=
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pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu=
 ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el=
ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou =
falsifie. Merci.

This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf=
ormation that may be protected by law;
they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele=
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modified, changed or falsified.
Thank you.
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X19fX19fX19fDQo+Pj4+IHNwcmluZyBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCj4+Pj4gc3ByaW5nQGlldGYub3Jn DQo+Pj4+IGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vc3ByaW5nDQo+Pj4g DQo+Pj4gX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCj4+ PiBzcHJpbmcgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQo+Pj4gc3ByaW5nQGlldGYub3JnDQo+Pj4gaHR0cHM6Ly93 d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9zcHJpbmcNCj4+PiANCj4+PiBKdW5pcGVyIEJ1 c2luZXNzIFVzZSBPbmx5DQo+IF9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fDQo+IHNwcmluZyBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCj4gc3ByaW5nQGlldGYub3JnDQo+IGh0 dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vc3ByaW5nDQoNCg== From nobody Fri Dec 6 07:56:08 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F21C120020; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 07:56:06 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 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(unknown [10.12.10.224]) by vs1.iomartmail.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A6D482203C; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 15:55:58 +0000 (GMT) Received: from LAPTOPK7AS653V ([84.93.96.25]) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp3.iomartmail.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id xB6Ftqp2030427 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 6 Dec 2019 15:55:53 GMT Reply-To: From: "Adrian Farrel" To: , "'SPRING WG List'" Cc: <6man@ietf.org>, "'draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming'" References: <17421_1575566127_5DE93B2F_17421_93_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D1A3DA@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: <17421_1575566127_5DE93B2F_17421_93_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D1A3DA@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 15:55:52 -0000 Organization: Old Dog Consulting Message-ID: <035701d5ac4d$a3ea7ad0$ebbf7070$@olddog.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0358_01D5AC4D.A3EF5CD0" 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------=_NextPart_000_0358_01D5AC4D.A3EF5CD0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Thanks to the authors for the work on this draft. I've done a review which is the first time I have looked at the draft for several revisions. My thoughts are included below. I think that considerable editorial work is needed before we can claim that this document is ready for publication. Thanks, Adrian === It would be really good if authors ran idnits before presenting drafts as ready for WG last call. It is pretty easy to do, and fixing the issues is not at all hard. https://www6.ietf.org/tools/idnits?url=https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft -ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-05.txt I think the most obvious thing that the tool points out is the absence of a Security Considerations section. While section 7 is obviously relevant, there would seem to be a significant piece of work that is needed before the draft can progress. --- Another 'normal' thing to do is check that the draft follows the editorial guidelines from the RFC Editor. Most notable is that the Requirements Language text should be moved into section 2.1. --- It would be good if you could put all section headers into title case. --- There are a lot of abbreviations in the document that are not deemed well-known by the RFC Editor and should be expanded on first use. 'SRv6' is not (yet) a well-known abbreviation according to the RFC Editor, so should be spelled out in the title, abstract, and on first use in the main body of text. --- The Abstract is a little terse. In particular, it should give an overview of what 'network programming' is. The Introduction says: This document defines the SRv6 Network Programming concept and aims at standardizing the main segment routing behaviors to enable the creation of interoperable overlays with underlay optimization and service programming. Some of that text would be good in the Abstract. -- Section 1 The first mention of 'Segment Routing' needs a reference. --- Section 1 moving forward in the segment list to any complex user-defined behavior. Is there a comma missing? --- Section 1 s/The network programming consists/Network programming consists/ --- Section 1 This document defines the SRv6 Network Programming concept and aims at standardizing the main segment routing behaviors to enable the creation of interoperable overlays with underlay optimization and service programming. The document 'aims', but does it succeed? :-) I think you should use... s/aims at standardizing/specifies/ --- Section 2 We assume that the SRH may be present multiple times inside each packet. It is good that you state this assumption for this draft. But clearly this is not normative for defining whether the SRH is allowed to be present more than once. I went to draft-ietf-6man-segment-routing-header to try to find a definitive statement and could not find one (perhaps I missed it?). Failing that, 8200 is normative and it says: Each extension header should occur at most once, except for the Destination Options header, which should occur at most twice (once before a Routing header and once before the upper-layer header). That means that your assumption: - is necessary for this document to work - is not a valid assumption. Clearly that is not good and not what you want to end up with. I think the solution is a fix to draft-ietf-6man-segment-routing-header either by pulling it back from the RFC Editor Queue to make and agree the change, or by writing a small bis to that draft to define and allow multiple presence. (That bis would be a normative reference from this draft.) I suppose it could be possible to have this draft update draft-ietf- 6man-segment-routing-header, but that is probably not ideal and would cause some inter-WG tensions. One way of the other, it's an easy fix, but the bottom line of this issue as things stand is that the assumption is false and blocks this draft. --- Section 2 When a packet is intercepted on a wire, it is possible that SRH[SL] is different from the DA. It is fairly obvious what this means, but you have introduced notation without definition. Perhaps insert some to text so that you end up with: SRH[n] indicates the nth one-based entry in the SID list as represented in the SRH. Thus, SRH[1] is SR3 in the example above. When a packet is intercepted on a wire, it is possible that SRH[SL] is different from the DA. --- Section 3 As introduced in RFC8402 an SRv6 Segment Identifier is a 128-bit value. Of course, it is true that an SRv6 SID is 128-bits, and this follows from what is said in 8402, but it is not what 8402 says. I suggest you replace this text with: RFC8402 defines an SRv6 Segment Identifier as an IPv6 address explicitly associated with the segment. Thus, an SRv6 Segment Identifier is a 128-bit value. --- 3.1 The FUNCT value zero is invalid. That's reasonable, but I couldn't find out what happens if I set a zero FUNCT. Where is that described? (Pedantically, but I don't expect a fix, if L is 128, I think FUNCT zero may be OK.) --- 3.1 A behavior may require additional arguments that would be placed immediately after the FUNCT. In such case, the SRv6 SID will have the form LOC:FUNCT:ARGS::. For this reason, the SRv6 SIDs are matched on a per longest-prefix-match basis. This is clear, but it conflicts with the definition of FUNCT given earlier: FUNCT (function) is the 128-L least significant bits of the SID. I would suggest that you reverse some of the text so that you start with LOC:FUNCT:ARGS:: then describe how the split between LOC and FUNCT is found (i.e., L), and then explain that ARGS might not always be needed in which case FUNCT uses all of the 128-L bits. --- I think you could usefully spend some time describing the classes of behaviors. Notably "End behaviors" and "Transit behaviors". This would go as a new section before section 4. You can describe how/where in the network the behaviors are executed, and you can describe whether the behaviors are bound to specific SIDs (SID types) or not. The, probably, rename section 4 to "End behaviors" which keeps it aligned with the name of section 5. --- 4. This is the only place you use "Adj SID" in the document. Either spell it out, or mention it in Section 2. Please spell out "decaps" on each use. --- 4.1 As a consequence, an End SID cannot be the last SID of a SID list and cannot be the DA of a packet without an SRH (unless combined with the PSP, USP or USD flavors Section 4.16). I think you mean s/cannot/MUST NOT/ The point is that I *can* place anything in a SID list, I just can't expect it to work. In fact, you should catch this in the pseudo code by testing Segments Left > 1. --- 4.1 "TBD-SRH" is mentioned many times in this document with the first time being in this section. I don't find this described in Section 9. --- 4.1 S03. Send an ICMP Parameter Problem message to the Source Address Code TBD-SRH (SR Upper-layer Header Error), Pointer set to the offset of the upper-layer header, interrupt packet processing and discard the packet Ambiguous punctuation. Probably... S03. Send an ICMP Parameter Problem message to the Source Address Code TBD-SRH (SR Upper-layer Header Error), Pointer set to the offset of the upper-layer header. Interrupt packet processing and discard the packet Similarly: S06. Send an ICMP Time Exceeded message to the Source Address, Code 0 (Hop limit exceeded in transit). Interrupt packet processing and discard the packet And: S10. Send an ICMP Parameter Problem to the Source Address, Code 0 (Erroneous header field encountered), Pointer set to the Segments Left field. Interrupt packet processing and discard the packet There are examples of this all through Section 4. --- 4.1 I was surprised by... S01. When an SRH is processed { S02. If (Segments Left == 0) { S03. Send an ICMP Parameter Problem message to the Source Address Code TBD-SRH (SR Upper-layer Header Error), Pointer set to the offset of the upper-layer header, interrupt packet processing and discard the packet S04. } S05. If (IPv6 Hop Limit <= 1) { S06. Send an ICMP Time Exceeded message to the Source Address, Code 0 (Hop limit exceeded in transit), interrupt packet processing and discard the packet S07. } Are you sure that Hop Limit processing is left so late? Isn't it one of the first things done with a packet before even the SRH is discovered to be present? --- 4.1 (and other sections) I spent rather too much time trying to work out S08. max_LE = (Hdr Ext Len / 2) - 1 S09. If ((Last Entry > max_LE) or (Segments Left > Last Entry+1)) { As far as I can see, for an SRH, Hdr Ext Len = 7 + (16 * (Last Entry + 1) ) + sum(all TLV lengths) So, while I see that you want to check that Last Entry doesn't point out beyond the end of the SRH, I don't see how your computation of max_LE helps. What have I missed? --- 4.2 s/with a set of J of/with a set, J, of/ Maybe S15. Set the packet's egress adjacency to J would read better as S15. Set the packet's egress adjacency to a member of J --- 4.2 Note that the End.X SID cannot be the last SID of a SID list and cannot be the DA of a packet without an SRH (unless combined with the PSP, USP or USD flavors Section 4.16). Hence the Upper-layer header should never be processed. Similar cannot/MUST NOT issue as in 4.1. The pseudocode fix in 4.1 would cover this point. --- 4.3 The End.T behavior is used for multi-table operation in the core. For this reason, an instance of the End.T behavior must be associated with an IPv6 FIB table T. Is this "MUST BE" or "is"? Error code "SR Upper-layer Header Error", Pointer set to the offset of the upper-layer header. You should call out "TBD-SRH" as the error code value. (Happens in several sections.) And (again)... Note that the End.T SID cannot be the last SID of a SID list and cannot be the DA of a packet without an SRH (unless combined with the PSP, USP or USD flavors Section 4.16). Hence the Upper-layer header should never be processed. Similar cannot/MUST NOT issue as in 4.1. The pseudocode fix in 4.1 would cover this point. --- 4.4 The End.DX6 SID must be the last segment in a SR Policy, and it must be associated with one or more L3 IPv6 adjacencies J. Again: is that "MUST" or "is"? Fix to S03. Send an ICMP Parameter Problem to the Source Address, Code 0 (Erroneous header field encountered), Pointer set to the Segments Left field. Interrupt packet processing and discard the packet and S02. Send an ICMP Parameter Problem message to the Source Address Code TBD-SRH (SR Upper-layer Header Error), Pointer set to the offset of the upper-layer header. Interrupt packet processing and discard the packet I wondered why you had two code fragments rather than a longer one with an "If" statement and two branches. Doesn't really matter, however, as a result of the current structure, the Notes that follow are a little ambiguous because you have two instances of S01 and S05 in the section. --- 4.5 Identical comments to 4.4 --- 4.6 This would be equivalent to the per-VRF VPN label in MPLS [RFC4364]. s/would be/is/ The End.DT6 SID must be the last segment in a SR Policy, and a SID instance must be associated with an IPv6 FIB table T. Again: is that "MUST" or "is"? --- 4.7 and 4.8 Identical comments to 4.6 --- 4.9 The End.DX2 SID must be the last segment in a SR Policy, and it must be associated with one outgoing interface I. Again: is that "MUST" or "is"? This section brings back the ambiguity in the Notes. --- 4.10 Any SID instance of the End.DX2V behavior must be associated with an L2 Table T. Again: is that "MUST" or "is"? --- 4.11 s/unicast . Any/unicast. Any/ Any SID instance of the End.DT2U behavior must be associated with an L2 Table T. Again: is that "MUST" or "is"? Usual issue with S02. Send an ICMP Parameter Problem message to the Source Address Code TBD-SRH (SR Upper-layer Header Error), Pointer set to the offset of the upper-layer header, interrupt packet processing and discard the packet L2OIF is a new (unknown) term (in 4.12 you use "L2 OIF") s/control plane/the control plane/ --- 4.12 Any SID instance of this behavior must be associated with a L2 table T. Additionally the behavior may take an argument: "Arg.FE2". It is an argument specific to EVPN ESI filtering and EVPN-ETREE used to exclude specific OIF (or set of OIFs) from L2 table T flooding. Again: is that "MUST" or "is"? Possibly s/may/MAY/ Where arguments are optional, I don't think you have made it clear what you do if no argument is supplied. I would presume you set the ARG bits to zero, but I am not clear whether zero could be interpreted as a valid argument. S06. Forward via all L2 OIFs excluding the one specified in Arg.F2 Earlier you called it Arg.FE2 --- 4.13 An End.B6.Encaps SID is never the last segment in a SID list. Any SID instantiation must be associated with an SR Policy B[I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing-policy] and a source address A. Again: is that "MUST" or "is"? s/B[I-D/B [I-D/ This makes [I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing-policy] a normative reference. --- 4.13 Step 13 is S13. Decrement Segments Left by 1 and the associated note is S13. The SRH MAY be omitted when the SRv6 Policy B only contains one Should the note be for S14? Similarly, should the S16 note be for S17? --- 4.14 In this way, the first segment is only introduced in the DA and the packet is forwarded according to it. I believe this sentence could be written more clearly. I tried to offer a suggestion, but discovered that I couldn't reliably guess what the intention is. --- 4.15 An End.BM SID is never the last SID, and any SID instantiation must be associated with an SR-MPLS Policy B[I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing-policy]. Again: is that "MUST" or "is"? s/B[I-D/B [I-D/ --- 4.15 S14. Push a the MPLS label stack for B s/a the/the/ --- 4.16.1 and 4.16.2 The term "pop the SRH" is, I think, a new concept introduced at this point. We can deduce what it means, but not be certain that we will do the right thing. You need to add text to clearly define the meaning. Furthermore (and I'm willing to bet someone ese has mentioned this!) the PSP concept appears to move the ability to remove an SRH from the domain border to inside the domain. I wonder whether that is actually allowed. I also wonder how the rest of the network knows whether the PSP function is available at a specific node. You might want to recast PSP if its purpose is to handle "end" nodes that are not SRH capable. To do this you would recast the node that you have called the PSPS node as the edge of the domain (the end node) and set the action as "Pop and go". --- 5.1 As per [RFC8200], if a node N receives a packet (A, S2)(S3, S2, S1; SL=1) and S2 is neither a local address nor a local SID of N then N forwards the packet without inspecting the SRH. 8200 can't possibly say this because 8200 doesn't know about SIDs. Possibly you just want to change the reference to 8402. --- 5.1 This means that N treats the following two packets P1 and P2 with the same performance: P1 = (A, S2) P2 = (A, S2)(S3, S2, S1; SL=1) I don't think this is necessarily true since packet length and other things (e.g., hashing) may vary. So you either need to sharpen your meaning of "performance" or just content yourself with "MUST NOT examine the SRH". --- 5.1 A transit node MUST include the outer flow label in its ECMP load- balancing hash [RFC6437]. I find this odd in this document. You are describing the behavior at a node that is potentially a legacy node that is not SRH aware, yet you are using normative language to define its behavior. You could change this to: A transit node will use the outer flow label in its ECMP load- balancing hash as described in [RFC6437]. Or, unless you can give a good reason to include it, you can simply strike this paragraph. Or, possibly, the problem comes with the text in Section 5 that says: We define hereafter the set of basic transit behaviors. These behaviors are not bound to a SID and they correspond to source SR nodes or transit nodes [I-D.ietf-6man-segment-routing-header]. Perhaps it is not right that you could define a transit behavior for a "transit node" that is not capable of processing an SRH. If you were to fix the definition of a transit behavior to apply to "source SR nodes, or nodes that are capable of processing SRHs and that forward an IPv6 packet where the destination address of that packet is not locally configured as a segment nor a local interface." then that would fix my concern. There is a similar issue in 6.2 --- 5.2 By definition this behavior only applies at source nodes per 8402. In other words, you are describing domain recursion according to 8402. --- 5.2 The SRH MAY be omitted when the SRv6 Policy only contains one segment and there is no need to use any flag, tag or TLV. For complete clarity... The push of the SRH MAY be omitted when the SRv6 Policy only contains one segment and there is no need to use any flag, tag or TLV. --- 5.3 Ditto both comments for 5.2 --- I don't think 5.4 or 5.5 can happen at transit nodes. The thing to be encapsulated is an L2 frame and so is only seen at a source node. At this point, I think only 5.1 describes a transit behavior. 5.2 to 5.5 describe source behaviors. --- 6.1 I agree with this section, but I am concerned that you are updating draft-ietf-6man-segment-routing-headerby adding normative language to describe nodes that process the SRH. Does that mean you should use an "Updates" clause in the document header? After describing CNT-1 and CNt-2 you say... Furthermore, an SRv6 capable node maintains an aggregate counter CNT-3 tracking the IPv6 traffic that was received with a destination address matching a local interface address that is not a locally instantiated SID and the next-header is SRH with SL>0. That looks like s/maintains/MUST maintain/ unless you have a reference for the assertion that it does maintain CNT-3. --- 6.3 I think you have made [I-D.ietf-6man-spring-srv6-oam] a normative reference. --- 7. The SRH Section 5.1 defines how a domain of trust can operate SRv6-based services for internal traffic while preventing any external traffic from accessing the internal SRv6-based services. Probably "The SRH Section 5.1" is meant to be a reference to another document. --- Section 8 has... The concept of "SRv6 network programming" refers to the capability for an application to encode any complex program as a set of individual functions distributed through the network. Some functions relate to underlay SLA, others to overlay/tenant, others to complex applications residing in VM and containers. This looks like a useful paragraph to have at the top of the document. --- 8.1 The End, End.T and End.X SIDs express topological behaviors and hence are expected to be signaled in the IGP together with the flavors PSP, USP and USD[I-D.ietf-lsr-isis-srv6-extensions]. I think you are conflating SIDs with behaviors. Probably... The End, End.T, and End.X behaviors express topological behaviors and hence the SIDs that have these behaviors bound to them are expected to be signaled in the IGP together with the supported flavors (PSP, USP, or USD) [I-D.ietf-lsr-isis-srv6-extensions]. Likewise... OLD These three SIDs provide important topological behaviors for the IGP to build FRR/TI-LFA solution and for TE processes relying on IGP LSDB to build SR policies. NEW These SIDs provide important topological behaviors for the IGP to build FRR/TI-LFA solution and for TE processes relying on IGP LSDB to build SR policies. --- 8.2 BGP-LS is expected to be the key service discovery protocol. Every node is expected to advertise via BGP-LS its SRv6 capabilities (e.g. how many SIDs it can insert as part of a T.Encaps behavior) and any locally instantiated SID [I-D.ietf-idr-bgpls-srv6-ext]. We shouldn't write text that expresses expectations about the future. It doesn't age well in an RFC, and it is just unsubstantiated speculation. What about... [I-D.ietf-idr-bgpls-srv6-ext] describes a mechanism to enable each node to use BGP-LS to advertise its SRv6 capabilities (e.g., how many SIDs it can insert as part of a T.Encaps behavior) and any locally instantiated SIDs. This enables BGP-LS to be the key service discovery protocol. --- 8.3 OLD The End.DX4, End.DX6, End.DT4, End.DT6, End.DT46, End.DX2, End.DX2V, End.DT2U and End.DT2M SIDs are expected to be signaled in BGP [I-D.ietf-bess-srv6-services]. NEW The End.DX4, End.DX6, End.DT4, End.DT6, End.DT46, End.DX2, End.DX2V, End.DT2U and End.DT2M SIDs can be signaled in BGP [I-D.ietf-bess-srv6-services]. --- 8.4 OLD The following table summarizes which SIDs are signaled in which signaling protocol. END The following table summarizes which behaviors can signaled for SIDs in which signaling protocols. --- 8.4 The reader should also remember that any specific instantiated SR policy is always assigned a Binding SID. They should remember that BSIDs are advertised in BGP-LS as shown in Table 1. This needs a citation. --- 9. | 0 | 0x0000 | Reserved | Invalid | | 1-32767 | 0x0001-0x7FFF | Specification Required | | | 32768-49151 | 0x8000-0xBFFF | Reserved for experimental | | | | | use | | | 49152-65534 | 0xC000-0xFFFE | Reserved for private use | | | 65535 | 0xFFFF | Reserved | Opaque | Should use the 5226 names for the assignment policies. Hence: | 0 | 0x0000 | Reserved | Invalid | | 1-32767 | 0x0001-0x7FFF | Specification Required | | | 32768-49151 | 0x8000-0xBFFF | Experimental Use | | | 49152-65534 | 0xC000-0xFFFE | Private use | | | 65535 | 0xFFFF | Reserved | Opaque | --- 9. I am strongly opposed to such a large range being assigned for experimental use. RFC 3692 gives some guidance. The normal idea is that there should be enough codepoints to allow two experiments to be run on the same nodes without conflict, but few enough that they cannot be used as a proxy for allocating and registering values in the registry. I should think that 32 code points is enough. --- 9. According to 5226 "Specification Required" implies the use of a Designated Expert. That means that your document needs to give advice to the DE on how to make decisions about which code points are acceptable. --- 9. Would be nice to reformat Table 4 to avoid the line wrapping. --- 9. In table 4 you have... | 13 | 0x00 | End.B6.Insert | [I-D.filsfils-spring-srv6-net-pgm- | | | 0D | | insertion] | I think you should leave 13 as unassigned, and leave it to the other document to request assignment. Alternatively, you make draft-filsfils-spring-srv6-net-pgm-insertion a normative reference and block the progress of this draft until it is complete (which I don't think it is a very good idea). --- 12.2 As shown by idnits, you have a couple of unused references you should delete. --- 12.2 2473, 8200, and 8402 are all clearly used as normative references. Please move them to 12.1 From: ipv6 On Behalf Of bruno.decraene@orange.com Sent: 05 December 2019 17:15 To: 'SPRING WG List' Cc: 6man@ietf.org; draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming Subject: WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming Hello SPRING, This email starts a two weeks Working Group Last Call on draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming [1]. Please read this document if you haven't read the most recent version, and send your comments to the SPRING WG list, no later than December 20. You may copy the 6MAN WG for IPv6 related comment, but consider not duplicating emails on the 6MAN mailing list for the comments which are only spring specifics. If you are raising a point which you expect will be specifically debated on the mailing list, consider using a specific email/thread for this point. This may help avoiding that the thread become specific to this point and that other points get forgotten (or that the thread get converted into parallel independent discussions) Thank you, Bruno [1] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-05 ____________________________________________________________________________ _____________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged information that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. ------=_NextPart_000_0358_01D5AC4D.A3EF5CD0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,

 

Thanks to = the authors for the work on this draft. I've done a = review

which is the first time I have = looked at the draft for several

revisions.  My thoughts are included = below.

 

I think that considerable editorial work is needed = before we can claim

that this = document is ready for publication.

 

Thanks,

Adrian

 

=3D=3D=3D

 

It would be = really good if authors ran idnits before presenting = drafts

as ready for WG last call. It = is pretty easy to do, and fixing the

issues is not at all hard.

 

https://www6.ietf.org/tools/idnits?url=3Dhttps://www.ie= tf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-05.txt<= /o:p>

 

I think the most obvious thing that the tool points = out is the absence

of a Security = Considerations section. While section 7 is obviously

relevant, there would seem to be a significant piece = of work that is

needed before the = draft can progress.

 

---

 

Another = 'normal' thing to do is check that the draft follows = the

editorial guidelines from the RFC = Editor. Most notable is that the

Requirements Language text should be moved into = section 2.1.

 

---

 

It would be = good if you could put all section headers into title = case.

 

---

 

There are a = lot of abbreviations in the document that are not = deemed

well-known by the RFC Editor = and should be expanded on first use.

 

'SRv6' is = not (yet) a well-known abbreviation according to the = RFC

Editor, so should be spelled out = in the title, abstract, and on first

use in the main body of text.

 

---

 

The Abstract = is a little terse. In particular, it should give an

overview of what 'network programming' = is.

 

The Introduction says:

   This document defines the SRv6 Network = Programming concept and aims

   at standardizing the main segment routing = behaviors to enable the

   = creation of interoperable overlays with underlay optimization = and

   service = programming.

Some of that text would = be good in the Abstract.

 

--

 

Section = 1

 

The first mention of 'Segment Routing' needs a = reference.

 

---

 

Section = 1

 

   moving forward in the segment list to any = complex user-defined

   = behavior.

 

Is there a comma missing?

 

---

 

Section = 1

 

s/The network programming consists/Network programming = consists/

 

---

 

Section = 1

 

   This document defines the SRv6 Network = Programming concept and aims

   at standardizing the main segment routing = behaviors to enable the

   = creation of interoperable overlays with underlay optimization = and

   service = programming.

 

The document 'aims', but does it succeed? = :-)

 

I think you should use...

s/aims at standardizing/specifies/

 

---

 

Section = 2

 

   We assume that the SRH = may

   be present multiple = times inside each packet.

 

It is good = that you state this assumption for this draft.

But clearly this is not normative for defining whether = the SRH is

allowed to be present = more than once.

I went to = draft-ietf-6man-segment-routing-header to try to find a =

definitive statement and could not = find one (perhaps I missed it?).

Failing that, 8200 is normative and it = says:

   Each extension = header should occur at most once, except for the

   Destination Options header, which should = occur at most twice (once

   before a Routing header and once before = the upper-layer header).

 

That means = that your assumption:

- is necessary = for this document to work

- is not a = valid assumption.

 

Clearly that = is not good and not what you want to end up with.

 

I think the = solution is a fix to = draft-ietf-6man-segment-routing-header

either by pulling it back from the RFC Editor Queue to = make and agree

the change, or by = writing a small bis to that draft to define and allow

multiple presence. (That bis would be a normative = reference from this

draft.)

 

I suppose it = could be possible to have this draft update draft-ietf-

6man-segment-routing-header, but that is probably not = ideal and would

cause some inter-WG = tensions.

 

One way of the other, it's an easy fix, but the bottom = line of this

issue as things stand is = that the assumption is false and blocks this

draft.

 

---

 

Section = 2

 

   When a packet is intercepted on a wire, = it is possible that SRH[SL]

   is different from the = DA.

 

It is fairly obvious what this means, but you have = introduced notation

without = definition.

 

Perhaps insert some to text so that you end up = with:

 

   SRH[n] indicates the nth one-based entry = in the SID list as

   represented in the SRH.  Thus, = SRH[1] is SR3 in the example above.

   When a packet is intercepted on a wire, = it is possible that SRH[SL]

   is different from the = DA.

 

---

 

Section = 3

 

   As introduced in RFC8402 an SRv6 Segment = Identifier is a 128-bit

   = value.

 

Of course, it is true that an SRv6 SID is 128-bits, = and this follows

from what is said = in 8402, but it is not what 8402 says.  I suggest = you

replace this text = with:

 

   RFC8402 defines an SRv6 Segment = Identifier as an IPv6 address

   explicitly associated with the = segment.  Thus, an SRv6 Segment

   Identifier is a 128-bit = value.

 

---

 

3.1

 

   = The FUNCT value zero is invalid.

 

That's = reasonable, but I couldn't find out what happens if I set a =

zero FUNCT. Where is that = described?

 

(Pedantically, but I don't expect a fix, if L is 128, = I think FUNCT

zero may be = OK.)

 

---

 

3.1

 

   = A behavior may require additional arguments that would be = placed

   immediately after = the FUNCT.  In such case, the SRv6 SID will have

   the form LOC:FUNCT:ARGS::. For this = reason, the SRv6 SIDs are matched

   on a per longest-prefix-match = basis.

 

This is clear, but it conflicts with the definition of = FUNCT given

earlier:

 

   = FUNCT (function) is the 128-L least significant bits of the = SID.

 

I would suggest that you reverse some of the text so = that you start

with LOC:FUNCT:ARGS:: = then describe how the split between LOC and FUNCT

is found (i.e., L), and then explain that ARGS might = not always be

needed in which case = FUNCT uses all of the 128-L bits.

 

---

 

I think you = could usefully spend some time describing the classes = of

behaviors. Notably "End = behaviors" and "Transit behaviors". This = would

go as a new section before = section 4.

 

You can describe how/where in the network the = behaviors are executed,

and you can = describe whether the behaviors are bound to specific = SIDs

(SID types) or = not.

 

The, probably, rename section 4 to "End = behaviors" which keeps it

aligned with the name of section 5.

 

---

 

4.

 

This is the = only place you use "Adj SID" in the document. Either = spell

it out, or mention it in = Section 2.

 

Please spell out "decaps" on each = use.

 

---

 

4.1

 

   = As a consequence, an End SID cannot be the last

   SID of a SID list and cannot be the DA of = a packet without an SRH

   = (unless combined with the PSP, USP or USD flavors Section = 4.16).

 

I think you mean s/cannot/MUST NOT/

 

The point is = that I *can* place anything in a SID list, I just can't

expect it to work.

 

In fact, you = should catch this in the pseudo code by testing = Segments

Left > = 1.

 

---

 

4.1

 

"TBD-SRH" is mentioned many times in this = document with the first time

being in = this section.

 

I don't find this described in Section = 9.

 

---

 

4.1

 

  = S03.      Send an ICMP Parameter Problem = message to the Source Address

         &= nbsp;     Code TBD-SRH (SR Upper-layer Header = Error),

         &= nbsp;     Pointer set to the offset of the = upper-layer header,

         &= nbsp;     interrupt packet processing and discard = the packet

 

Ambiguous punctuation. Probably...

 

  = S03.      Send an ICMP Parameter Problem = message to the Source Address

         &= nbsp;     Code TBD-SRH (SR Upper-layer Header = Error),

         &= nbsp;     Pointer set to the offset of the = upper-layer header.

         &= nbsp;  Interrupt packet processing and discard the = packet

 

Similarly:

 

  = S06.      Send an ICMP Time Exceeded message to = the Source Address,

         &= nbsp;     Code 0 (Hop limit exceeded in = transit).

         &= nbsp;  Interrupt packet processing and discard the = packet

 

And:

 

  = S10.      Send an ICMP Parameter Problem to the = Source Address,

         &= nbsp;     Code 0 (Erroneous header field = encountered),

         &= nbsp;     Pointer set to the Segments Left = field.

         &= nbsp;  Interrupt packet processing and discard the = packet

 

There are examples of this all through Section = 4.

 

---

 

4.1

 

I was = surprised by...

 

  S01. = When an SRH is processed {

  = S02.   If (Segments Left =3D=3D 0) {

  S03.      Send an ICMP = Parameter Problem message to the Source Address

         &= nbsp;     Code TBD-SRH (SR Upper-layer Header = Error),

         &= nbsp;     Pointer set to the offset of the = upper-layer header,

         &= nbsp;     interrupt packet processing and discard = the packet

  S04.   = }

  S05.   If (IPv6 = Hop Limit <=3D 1) {

  = S06.      Send an ICMP Time Exceeded message to = the Source Address,

         &= nbsp;     Code 0 (Hop limit exceeded in = transit),

         &= nbsp;     interrupt packet processing and discard = the packet

  S07.   = }

 

Are you sure that Hop Limit processing is left so = late? Isn't it one of

the first = things done with a packet before even the SRH is discovered = to

be present?

 

---

 

4.1 (and = other sections)

 

I spent = rather too much time trying to work out

 

  = S08.   max_LE =3D (Hdr Ext Len / 2) - 1

  S09.   If ((Last Entry > max_LE) = or (Segments Left > Last Entry+1)) {

 

As far as I = can see, for an SRH,

 

   = Hdr Ext Len =3D 7 + (16 * (Last Entry + 1) ) + sum(all TLV = lengths)

 

So, while I see that you want to check that Last Entry = doesn't point out

beyond the end of = the SRH, I don't see how your computation of max_LE

helps.

 

What have I = missed?

 

---

 

4.2

 

s/with a set = of J of/with a set, J, of/

 

Maybe

   = S15.   Set the packet's egress adjacency to J

would read better as

   S15.   Set the packet's egress = adjacency to a member of J

 

---

 

4.2

 

   = Note that the End.X SID cannot be the last SID of a SID list = and

   cannot be the DA of = a packet without an SRH (unless combined with the

   PSP, USP or USD flavors Section = 4.16).  Hence the Upper-layer header

   should never be = processed.

 

Similar cannot/MUST NOT issue as in = 4.1.

The pseudocode fix in 4.1 would = cover this point.

 

---

 

4.3

 

   = The End.T behavior is used for multi-table operation in the = core.

   For this reason, = an instance of the End.T behavior must be associated

   with an IPv6 FIB table = T.

 

Is this "MUST BE" or = "is"?

 

   = Error code "SR Upper-layer Header Error", Pointer set to = the

   offset of the = upper-layer header.

 

You should = call out "TBD-SRH" as the error code value. (Happens in =

several sections.)

 

And = (again)...

 

   Note that the End.T SID cannot be the = last SID of a SID list and

   cannot be the DA of a packet without an = SRH (unless combined with the

   PSP, USP or USD flavors Section = 4.16).  Hence the Upper-layer header

   should never be = processed.

 

Similar cannot/MUST NOT issue as in = 4.1.

The pseudocode fix in 4.1 would = cover this point.

 

---

 

4.4

 

   = The End.DX6 SID must be the last segment in a SR Policy, and it = must

   be associated with = one or more L3 IPv6 adjacencies J.

 

Again: is = that "MUST" or "is"?

 

Fix to =

 

   S03.      Send = an ICMP Parameter Problem to the Source Address,

         &= nbsp;      Code 0 (Erroneous header field = encountered),

         &= nbsp;      Pointer set to the Segments Left = field.

         &= nbsp;   Interrupt packet processing and discard the = packet

 

and

 

   = S02.    Send an ICMP Parameter Problem message to the = Source Address

         &= nbsp;    Code TBD-SRH (SR Upper-layer Header = Error),

         &= nbsp;    Pointer set to the offset of the upper-layer = header.

         &= nbsp; Interrupt packet processing and discard the = packet

 

I wondered why you had two code fragments rather than = a longer one with

an "If" = statement and two branches. Doesn't really matter, however, as = a

result of the current structure, = the Notes that follow are a little

ambiguous because you have two instances of S01 and = S05 in the section.

 

---

 

4.5

 

Identical = comments to 4.4

 

---

 

4.6

 

   = This would be equivalent to the per-VRF VPN label in

   MPLS [RFC4364].

 

s/would = be/is/

 

   The End.DT6 SID must be the last segment = in a SR Policy, and a SID

   instance must be associated with an IPv6 = FIB table T.

 

Again: is that "MUST" or = "is"?

 

---

 

4.7 and = 4.8

 

Identical comments to 4.6

 

---

 

4.9

 

   = The End.DX2 SID must be the last segment in a SR Policy, and it = must

   be associated with = one outgoing interface I.

 

Again: is = that "MUST" or "is"?

 

This section = brings back the ambiguity in the Notes.

 

---

 

4.10

 

   = Any SID

   instance of the = End.DX2V behavior must be associated with an L2

   Table T.

 

Again: is = that "MUST" or "is"?

 

---

 

4.11

 

s/unicast . = Any/unicast.  Any/

 

   = Any SID instance of the End.DT2U behavior must be

   associated with an L2 Table = T.

 

Again: is that "MUST" or = "is"?

 

Usual issue = with

   = S02.    Send an ICMP Parameter Problem message to the = Source Address

         &= nbsp;    Code TBD-SRH (SR Upper-layer Header = Error),

         &= nbsp;    Pointer set to the offset of the upper-layer = header,

         &= nbsp;    interrupt packet processing and discard the = packet

 

L2OIF is a new (unknown) term (in 4.12 you use = "L2 OIF")

 

s/control = plane/the control plane/

 

---

 

4.12

 

   = Any SID instance of this behavior must be associated with a L2 = table

   T.  = Additionally the behavior may take an argument: = "Arg.FE2".  It is

   an argument specific to EVPN ESI = filtering and EVPN-ETREE used to

   exclude specific OIF (or set of OIFs) = from L2 table T flooding.

 

Again: is = that "MUST" or "is"?

 

Possibly = s/may/MAY/

 

Where arguments are optional, I don't think you have = made it clear what

you do if no = argument is supplied. I would presume you set the ARG = bits

to zero, but I am not clear = whether zero could be interpreted as a

valid argument.

 

   = S06. Forward via all L2 OIFs excluding the one specified in = Arg.F2

 

Earlier you called it Arg.FE2

 

---

 

4.13

 

   = An End.B6.Encaps SID is never the last segment in a SID list.  = Any

   SID instantiation = must be associated with an SR Policy

   B[I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing-policy] = and a source address A.

 

Again: is = that "MUST" or "is"?

 

s/B[I-D/B = [I-D/

 

This makes [I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing-policy] a = normative

reference.

 

---

 

4.13

 

Step 13 = is

  S13.   Decrement = Segments Left by 1

and the associated = note is

   S13.  The = SRH MAY be omitted when the SRv6 Policy B only contains = one

 

Should the note be for S14?

 

Similarly, = should the S16 note be for S17?

 

---

 

4.14

 

   = In this way, the

   first = segment is only introduced in the DA and the packet is

   forwarded according to = it.

 

I believe this sentence could be written more clearly. = I tried to offer

a suggestion, but = discovered that I couldn't reliably guess what the

intention is.

 

---

 

4.15

 

   = An End.BM SID is never the last SID, and any SID instantiation = must

   be associated with = an SR-MPLS Policy

   = B[I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing-policy].

 

Again: is = that "MUST" or "is"?

 

s/B[I-D/B = [I-D/

 

---

 

4.15

  = S14.   Push a the MPLS label stack for B

 

s/a = the/the/

 

---

 

4.16.1 and = 4.16.2

 

The term "pop the SRH" is, I think, a new = concept introduced at this

point. We = can deduce what it means, but not be certain that we = will

do the right = thing.

 

You need to add text to clearly define the = meaning.

 

Furthermore (and I'm willing to bet someone ese has = mentioned this!)

the PSP concept = appears to move the ability to remove an SRH from

the domain border to inside the domain. I wonder = whether that is

actually allowed. I = also wonder how the rest of the network knows

whether the PSP function is available at a specific = node.

 

You might want to recast PSP if its purpose is to = handle "end" nodes

that are = not SRH capable. To do this you would recast the node that = you

have called the PSPS node as the = edge of the domain (the end node) and

set the action as "Pop and = go".

 

---

 

5.1

 

   = As per [RFC8200], if a node N receives a packet (A, S2)(S3, S2, = S1;

   SL=3D1) and S2 is = neither a local address nor a local SID of N then N

   forwards the packet without inspecting = the SRH.

 

8200 can't possibly say this because 8200 doesn't know = about SIDs.

 

Possibly you just want to change the reference to = 8402.

 

---

 

5.1

 

   = This means that N treats the following two packets P1 and P2 with = the

   same = performance:

 

      P1 =3D (A, = S2)

 

      P2 =3D (A, S2)(S3, S2, = S1; SL=3D1)

 

I don't think this is necessarily true since packet = length and other

things (e.g., = hashing) may vary. So you either need to sharpen your

meaning of "performance" or just content = yourself with "MUST NOT

examine = the SRH".

 

---

 

5.1

 

   = A transit node MUST include the outer flow label in its ECMP = load-

   balancing hash = [RFC6437].

 

I find this odd in this document. You are describing = the behavior at a

node that is = potentially a legacy node that is not SRH aware, yet = you

are using normative language to = define its behavior. You could change

this to:

 

   = A transit node will use the outer flow label in its ECMP = load-

   balancing hash as = described in [RFC6437].

 

Or, unless = you can give a good reason to include it, you can = simply

strike this = paragraph.

 

Or, possibly, the problem comes with the text in = Section 5 that says:

   We = define hereafter the set of basic transit behaviors.  = These

   behaviors are not = bound to a SID and they correspond to source SR

   nodes or transit nodes = [I-D.ietf-6man-segment-routing-header].

Perhaps it is not right that you could define a = transit behavior for

a "transit = node" that is not capable of processing an SRH. If you = were

to fix the definition of a = transit behavior to apply to "source SR

nodes, or nodes that are capable of processing SRHs = and that forward an

IPv6 packet where = the destination address of that packet is not locally

configured as a segment nor a local interface." = then that would fix my

concern.

 

There is a = similar issue in 6.2

 

---

 

5.2

 

By = definition this behavior only applies at source nodes per 8402. = In

other words, you are describing = domain recursion according to 8402.

 

---

 

5.2

 

   = The SRH MAY be omitted when the SRv6 Policy only contains one = segment

   and there is no = need to use any flag, tag or TLV.

 

For complete = clarity...

 

   The push of the SRH MAY be omitted when = the SRv6 Policy only contains

   one segment and there is no need to use = any flag, tag or TLV.

 

---

 

5.3

 

Ditto both = comments for 5.2

 

---

 

I don't = think 5.4 or 5.5 can happen at transit nodes. The thing to = be

encapsulated is an L2 frame and so = is only seen at a source node.

 

At this = point, I think only 5.1 describes a transit behavior. 5.2 to = 5.5

describe source = behaviors.

 

---

 

6.1

 

I agree with = this section, but I am concerned that you are updating

draft-ietf-6man-segment-routing-headerby adding = normative language to

describe nodes = that process the SRH. Does that mean you should use an

"Updates" clause in the document = header?

 

After describing CNT-1 and CNt-2 you = say...

 

   Furthermore, an SRv6 capable node = maintains an aggregate counter

   CNT-3 tracking the IPv6 traffic that was = received with a destination

   address matching a local interface = address that is not a locally

   instantiated SID and the next-header is = SRH with SL>0.

 

That looks = like s/maintains/MUST maintain/ unless you have a = reference

for the assertion that it = does maintain CNT-3.

 

---

 

6.3

 

I think you = have made [I-D.ietf-6man-spring-srv6-oam] a normative

reference.

 

---

 

7.

 

   = The SRH Section 5.1 defines how a domain of trust can = operate

   SRv6-based = services for internal traffic while preventing any

   external traffic from accessing the = internal SRv6-based services.

 

Probably = "The SRH Section 5.1" is meant to be a reference to another =

document.

 

---

 

Section 8 = has...

 

   The concept of "SRv6 network = programming" refers to the capability

   for an application to encode any complex = program as a set of

   = individual functions distributed through the network.  Some = functions

   relate to = underlay SLA, others to overlay/tenant, others to = complex

   applications = residing in VM and containers.

 

This looks = like a useful paragraph to have at the top of the = document.

 

---

 

8.1

 

   = The End, End.T and End.X SIDs express topological behaviors and = hence

   are expected to be = signaled in the IGP together with the flavors PSP,

   USP and = USD[I-D.ietf-lsr-isis-srv6-extensions].

 

I think you = are conflating SIDs with behaviors. Probably...

 

   = The End, End.T, and End.X behaviors express topological behaviors = and

   hence the SIDs that = have these behaviors bound to them are expected

   to be signaled in the IGP together with = the supported flavors (PSP,

   USP, or USD) = [I-D.ietf-lsr-isis-srv6-extensions].

 

Likewise...

OLD

   = These three SIDs provide important topological behaviors for the = IGP

   to build FRR/TI-LFA = solution and for TE processes relying on IGP LSDB

   to build SR policies.

NEW

   = These SIDs provide important topological behaviors for the = IGP

   to build FRR/TI-LFA = solution and for TE processes relying on IGP LSDB

   to build SR policies.

 

---

 

8.2

 

   = BGP-LS is expected to be the key service discovery protocol.  = Every

   node is expected = to advertise via BGP-LS its SRv6 capabilities (e.g.

   how many SIDs it can insert as part of a = T.Encaps behavior) and any

   locally instantiated SID = [I-D.ietf-idr-bgpls-srv6-ext].

 

We shouldn't = write text that expresses expectations about the future. = It

doesn't age well in an RFC, and it = is just unsubstantiated speculation.

 

What = about...

 

   [I-D.ietf-idr-bgpls-srv6-ext] describes a = mechanism to enable each

   = node to use BGP-LS to advertise its SRv6 capabilities (e.g., how = many

   SIDs it can insert = as part of a T.Encaps behavior) and any locally

   instantiated SIDs.  This enables = BGP-LS to be the key service

   discovery protocol.

 

---

 

8.3

 

OLD

   = The End.DX4, End.DX6, End.DT4, End.DT6, End.DT46, End.DX2, = End.DX2V,

   End.DT2U and = End.DT2M SIDs are expected to be signaled in BGP

   = [I-D.ietf-bess-srv6-services].

NEW

   = The End.DX4, End.DX6, End.DT4, End.DT6, End.DT46, End.DX2, = End.DX2V,

   End.DT2U and = End.DT2M SIDs can be signaled in BGP

   = [I-D.ietf-bess-srv6-services].

 

---

 

8.4

 

OLD

   = The following table summarizes which SIDs are signaled in = which

   signaling = protocol.

END

   The following table summarizes which = behaviors can signaled for SIDs

   in which signaling = protocols.

 

---

 

8.4

 

   = The reader should also remember that any specific instantiated = SR

   policy is always = assigned a Binding SID.  They should remember that

   BSIDs are advertised in BGP-LS as shown = in Table 1.

 

This needs a citation.

 

---

 

9.

 

   = | 0           = |     0x0000    = |          = Reserved         | Invalid = |

   | = 1-32767     | 0x0001-0x7FFF |   = Specification Required  = |         |

   | 32768-49151 | 0x8000-0xBFFF | Reserved = for experimental |         = |

   = |            = = |            =    = |            = use            = |         |

   | 49152-65534 | 0xC000-0xFFFE |  = Reserved for private use = |         |

   | = 65535       |     = 0xFFFF    = |          = Reserved         |  Opaque = |

 

Should use the 5226 names for the assignment policies. = Hence:

 

   | = 0           = |     0x0000    = |          = Reserved         | Invalid = |

   | = 1-32767     | 0x0001-0x7FFF |   = Specification Required  = |         |

   | 32768-49151 | 0x8000-0xBFFF = |      Experimental Use     = |         |

   | 49152-65534 | 0xC000-0xFFFE = |        Private = use        = |         |

   | = 65535       |     = 0xFFFF    = |          = Reserved         |  Opaque = |

 

---

 

9.

 

I am = strongly opposed to such a large range being assigned = for

experimental use.  RFC 3692 = gives some guidance.  The normal idea is

that there should be enough codepoints to allow two = experiments to be

run on the same = nodes without conflict, but few enough that they cannot

be used as a proxy for allocating and registering = values in the

registry.

 

I should = think that 32 code points is enough.

 

---

 

9. =

 

According to 5226 "Specification Required" = implies the use of a

Designated = Expert. That means that your document needs to give advice = to

the DE on how to make decisions = about which code points are acceptable.

 

---

 

9.

 

Would be = nice to reformat Table 4 to avoid the line wrapping.

 

---

 

9.

 

In table 4 = you have...

   | = 13   | 0x00 | End.B6.Insert  | = [I-D.filsfils-spring-srv6-net-pgm- |

   |      |  = 0D  = |            =     = |            = = insertion]          &nb= sp;  |

 

I think you should leave 13 as unassigned, and leave = it to the other

document to request = assignment.

 

Alternatively, you make = draft-filsfils-spring-srv6-net-pgm-insertion a

normative reference and block the progress of this = draft until it is

complete (which I = don't think it is a very good idea).

 

---

 

12.2

 

As shown by = idnits, you have a couple of unused references you = should

delete.

 

---

 

12.2

 

2473, 8200, = and 8402 are all clearly used as normative references.

Please move them to 12.1

 

From: ipv6 <ipv6-bounces@ietf.org> = On Behalf Of bruno.decraene@orange.com
Sent: 05 = December 2019 17:15
To: 'SPRING WG List' = <spring@ietf.org>
Cc: 6man@ietf.org; = draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming = <draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming@ietf.org>
Subject= : WGLC - = draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming

 

Hello SPRING,
 
This =
email starts a two weeks Working Group Last Call on =
draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming =
[1].
 
Please read this document if you haven't read the most =
recent version, and send your comments to the SPRING WG list, no later =
than December 20.
 
You =
may copy the 6MAN WG for IPv6 related comment, but consider not =
duplicating emails on the 6MAN mailing list for the comments which are =
only spring specifics.
 
If =
you are raising a point which you expect will be specifically debated on =
the mailing list, consider using a specific email/thread for this =
point.
This may help =
avoiding that the thread become specific to this point and that other =
points get forgotten (or that the thread get converted into parallel =
independent discussions)
 
Thank =
you,
Bruno
 
[1] =
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-prog=
ramming-05
 

 

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Thank =
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------=_NextPart_000_0358_01D5AC4D.A3EF5CD0-- From nobody Fri Dec 6 07:59:00 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF388120019 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 07:58:55 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=herbertland-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Y_AT08sk2hYF for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 07:58:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ed1-x52b.google.com (mail-ed1-x52b.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::52b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A4FF31200D7 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 07:58:52 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ed1-x52b.google.com with SMTP id c26so6165078eds.8 for ; Fri, 06 Dec 2019 07:58:52 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=herbertland-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=5zD1XNjdSf74V5f1hR9KWpM/fUP/TVtf7UhBtJhKlAg=; b=mfA790kYO6nLhxSySEzxWd6IIgep0P2aplLpQTy3ZeD3xuweBi5AWYA3e5MYnyRysX 2cXjq8u/lg4Se8CfeGRsuh1YVUba1wvD5Ybdwa9iqZaQYH7vPNBDxTMIiIDfXtXyquB3 5VhxeZeBAIIFvTNaQQzHmzVaM+bwJJ6MjaOymcLehe/HtY1CmudaypQN06FIXCjU3LMy aa9Ojl2UPsXy3S/0DhXxw2J4ZnpptG1+Z9XOe8V4jkFqk1ynwYdgGmTubmRcWb0/Xl1V 6ClI4PQeRl/B9IMAVLkENqajf37MICGigPxxMvZr/iBESltuU+lLjp9z/31DCAAapFBY 7SBw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=5zD1XNjdSf74V5f1hR9KWpM/fUP/TVtf7UhBtJhKlAg=; b=H3FCIj0AUNTOt9+DSxRNnPNRAK9X5AFHPLjcQ5fmFf9/KLVayerJE7tiiO0Ke2/ogA X9Edg563S4prVwmer4tQHNqqPbAUHnB30/CQ5hjvp7exy3QzMIQTXenocRUekZLW/o7/ ex8xB6b5GtqRdohxU+JgvDJkQh3TYdtheINVzKl5J0hysZaqTO3B1y5xP2kAXduNvMQt eVI7+nPB+Z3rcBjspoxBmQOG0jyTiD+F/JnyIp4GaE9haV2HlgksL5mMUoeVk8sMjre1 kb10avma594Tx8hCX498EADwOXjLrJFN4enlJUliOKGG7X1e3E8/X2Z+rk/Qu83KrD59 xFfA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUjMAiqsyuY7cHJ3dLHM6FOgj7kG81exP06VEj3A5lw9OxfV78f ubyVOYuY0beSk3JmvVHvdhcIcrVSW3KG/0Z9NxlsOw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwJN7z1pGtKgQCtrJ0yaVh+wYrlqYAfuF92itq4BSwqNiL0j7b3xC43mLiQHzLLi3VQHMmeSNWxIgcG36TKIdQ= X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:4e46:: with SMTP id g6mr15971016ejw.309.1575647930922; Fri, 06 Dec 2019 07:58:50 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <52132FA9-669E-4B32-BDC8-6F06C98315F3@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <52132FA9-669E-4B32-BDC8-6F06C98315F3@gmail.com> From: Tom Herbert Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 07:58:39 -0800 Message-ID: To: Bob Hinden Cc: Ron Bonica , SPRING WG , 6man <6man@ietf.org>, "int-ads@ietf.org" , rtg-ads , Fernando Gont Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 15:58:56 -0000 On Thu, Dec 5, 2019 at 4:30 PM Bob Hinden wrote: > > Hi, > > > On Dec 5, 2019, at 16:20, Ron Bonica wrote: > > > > =EF=BB=BFEnno, > > > > That is how I parse Ole's message. But we can let Ole speak for himself= . > > To clarify, the current consensus is the text in RFC8200. > > There is discussion ongoing in 6man on this topic, but it is impossible t= o say how that will turn out, or when. > Bob, The advice from the chairs seems to be continue discussion. The problem with that is that EH insertion has been discussed ad nauseum over the past two years since the draft first appeared. It seems like we are at the point where the same arguments on the topic are just being rehashed on the list. As you mention above, the current consensus is that the EH insertion conflicts with RFC8200. Right now it seems like further discussion is open ended and without any constraints a likely outcome will be attrition and eventual acquiescence to accepting yet another non-conformant protocol that became so widely deployed so that it can be fixed. In light of this, can the chairs or AD provide some guidance or expectations on framing any further discussion on the topic to ensure that it's productive and the process is moving forward. Thanks, Tom > Bob >over the > > > > > Ron > > > > > > > > Juniper Business Use Only > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Enno Rey > > Sent: Thursday, December 5, 2019 5:48 PM > > To: Ron Bonica > > Cc: otroan@employees.org; Fernando Gont ; SPRING= WG ; 6man <6man@ietf.org>; int-ads@ietf.org; rtg-ads > > Subject: Re: We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network P= rogramming - Penultimate Segment Popping) > > > > Hi Ron, > > > >> On Thu, Dec 05, 2019 at 10:08:53PM +0000, Ron Bonica wrote: > >> Peace Gentlemen, > >> > >> For the purpose of this thread, I think that we have all of the inform= ation that we need. Consensus regarding header insertion and removal is "ev= olving". > > > > not meaning to nitpick and admittedly I'm not super-familiar with all n= uances of IETF processes but this means that no type of consensus has been = reached yet, correct? > > > > thanks > > > > Enno > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> We need to let that evolution progress, and not make any assumptions r= egarding its outcome. > >> > >> Ron > >> > >> > >> Juniper Business Use Only > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: otroan@employees.org > >> Sent: Thursday, December 5, 2019 4:42 PM > >> To: Fernando Gont > >> Cc: Ron Bonica ; SPRING WG ; > >> 6man <6man@ietf.org>; int-ads@ietf.org; rtg-ads > >> > >> Subject: Re: We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network > >> Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping) > >> > >> Fernando, > >> > >>>>> Point taken. Could you comment on the current state of WG consensus= ? > >>>> > >>>> The working group session in Singapore ended with what appeared to b= e a view that we should continue work on both documents (Mark's and the Voy= er draft). > >>>> For the state of the wg consensus, I haven't checked with Bob, but I= think he will agree with it being classified as "evolving". > >>> > >>> I polled you about this decision > >>> (https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/i > >>> pv > >>> 6/12Qwp_eeQT2EmbUrSxBLL5HTcnM__;!8WoA6RjC81c!QH6T9eu4QEGAh1tVtPAiXW2S= jsZMxfQdUYen3nv2CPDS4DWlFeKu7c4TwztzwnbH$ ), and you never responded. > >> > >> Sorry, which decision is that supposed to be? > >> > >>> Suresh (INT AD) clarified this one list, here: > >>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ip > >>> v6 > >>> /Db6_SGfmeIDzaE56Ps5kUDCYEzY__;!8WoA6RjC81c!QH6T9eu4QEGAh1tVtPAiXW2S > >>> js ZMxfQdUYen3nv2CPDS4DWlFeKu7c4Tw1iPjJAl$ > >>> > >>> Suresh noted that there wasn't consensus call, even at the f2f > >>> meeting (not to mention that the list was never polled in this respec= t). > >> > >> Right, neither of these two documents are adopted as working group doc= uments. And perhaps a more correct phrasing above would be that "The workin= g group session in Singapore ended with what appeared to be a view that wor= k could continue on both of these documents". > >> > >>> I would say that it seems we have not been following the processes > >>> that should be followed. This has happened repeatedly over time, for > >>> this very same topic. The process seems to be biased, and thus > >>> unfair to the rest of the wg participants. > >> > >> Which process are you talking about? Is that documented in an RFC? > >> You seem to take it on yourself to represent the "rest of the wg parti= cipants", but from my perspective it looks like a few very loud voices. > >> Perhaps we should let others speak up, if there is anything more to be= said on this topic. > >> > >> Ole > >> > >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > >> ipv6@ietf.org > >> Administrative Requests: > >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > >> __;!8WoA6RjC81c!TjLEU67_JCgw5HSu4C7UhFOC61xLkOhpmW0Ev51wqvHbECMOysxK3t > >> 9RS5pxqO3g$ > >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > -- > > Enno Rey > > > > Cell: +49 173 6745902 > > Twitter: @Enno_Insinuator > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > > ipv6@ietf.org > > Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > > 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From: Ron Bonica To: "Darren Dukes (ddukes)" CC: Bob Hinden , SPRING WG , Mark Smith Thread-Topic: [spring] SRv6 Network Programming and Link Local Source Addresses Thread-Index: AdWnvRd0lqtmH80YQu+C6Oz5BkM5rgA0iXcAAAHtYYAAAH2owAAAaB+AACLhNsAAAGgsgAAAEqowAMlT84AAAIgLcA== Content-Class: Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 16:11:08 +0000 Message-ID: References: <1E03C1DB-980A-4BFE-9DCD-56C26BDC8B77@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: msip_labels: MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_Enabled=True; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_SiteId=bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_Owner=rbonica@juniper.net; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_SetDate=2019-12-06T16:11:06.7079236Z; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_Name=Juniper Business Use Only; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_Application=Microsoft Azure Information 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bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: vXOY9YAUnKybKcN2FZ8mo/l6UYPWvDuMR0c/zLwhO40QmNUIcTsv2DpmjrbpUS0szVvmQiDiB6rz89chVSq4Cg== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN7PR05MB4481 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.95,18.0.572 definitions=2019-12-06_05:2019-12-05,2019-12-06 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_spam_notspam policy=outbound_spam score=0 clxscore=1015 adultscore=0 mlxscore=0 malwarescore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 priorityscore=1501 mlxlogscore=999 suspectscore=0 impostorscore=0 phishscore=0 spamscore=0 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-1910280000 definitions=main-1912060135 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] SRv6 Network Programming and Link Local Source Addresses X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" 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h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=brwqoCk49s9BH9vUgAiONeAaWFX/KOg6k+8VLKbNLHM=; b=Tx6O5brTu5t8L5U4kHZfFojSQJ3THfp31LtsXKNBGuy9RID4nxNle3+B4f4Tg+NxqR 8oB/H61Nm7CAW3OuixwHal4ErRLx9mAA7Zt47lKPT1/+XXlAD5Hqkpa7KwatrVzKfL6X 88vhnHDxT4L7eOdAPSeXMuIq5KdyMjVTRdZLuBBAI6d0Jc+Z4PpsHivUX2KDI10MzxcC YlaJuF2kgFAqBEYGet7+gJG1Pf+l/EPMmI6AJkTUvskwoBb6GUl3NzUTPiqUS7cmAmAA GFSUrIe271FybbndOal78QxB5fk3844Fy58xT3uovQV6nYlkx1YL19M/yxACUULuNunW uVfA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=brwqoCk49s9BH9vUgAiONeAaWFX/KOg6k+8VLKbNLHM=; b=Go8XpccuZ367Ip2lvoaEDIQdHJ1jE4jxoV5LBra8CLCNnvcFm8ONc65Rx0PpWZTIw6 2H5wucKkFTMxLphrgj2pYBHetuMuawLvoxwIOI4RTqFkvTSofJa/BeZ2+0toN4ft8chV RvmfG7jI4njCacpljwSroSsZFstjzVBizC1+XIy79YerzaIQaYI+r1J+CAMziyl5VJSU wAnTfjlA1zO7QEQi56IMhbKo8L0D0Jp7hYVksz8QKymFWnurYMa8yHnkBO6iXt0Qk2RG w3qC82nZ4LizK8Bi9dKef0NZdZrSnzJ0gjthMs0ti0i2lrDSLOy1hxppryHP18l5jkE9 Ee9A== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWRVyW4eSrkDZCyfuHDuraHk1JtMZGQ1Vp61X4ZRimXG/qDYGtG ejAOe8OzKakr00vKmhNCaYWNRISHCCajbb5XSSTgJOLa4vw= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyFxZJHbhTKXWKLzah8T1VJakHPC+vGnF/vToQwwRky5mPxbOVAp9o+AhgUjmGjQUPqI6Av2KFHVevO6ona9BE= X-Received: by 2002:a37:4a0a:: with SMTP id x10mr7715727qka.302.1575648921425; Fri, 06 Dec 2019 08:15:21 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <3AD3BD11-8C34-41FE-B88F-49A9F2561D78@cisco.com> <8DEDE597-B7B0-48F5-959E-69757315C2AC@employees.org> <4FAB68A3-C533-471D-94D0-3F6EB1F32FC1@employees.org> <1e36a492-5931-02de-cf85-63339522b13a@si6networks.com> <8A9BC46E-A018-41C0-BE47-4BABC30EFE79@employees.org> <20191205222740.GA9637@ernw.de> In-Reply-To: From: Robert Raszuk Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 17:15:12 +0100 Message-ID: To: Sander Steffann Cc: SPRING WG , 6man <6man@ietf.org>, "int-ads@ietf.org" , rtg-ads Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000040b0a505990b5a6b" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 16:15:24 -0000 --00000000000040b0a505990b5a6b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Sander, To your specific first question this is very popular deployment model .. just look at SDWANs. So Internet is just a L3 transport for all routers in your administrative domain or global WAN. Spot on. I do sincerely hope that whatever the result be of this debate all features will be legal to run on my boxes regardless how I choose to interconnect them. As (Internet) transit boxes would never be destination addresses of the outermost header what problem do you see running anything one likes on R1 or R2 or R3 and transporting it via open Internet or perhaps some third party networks ? Just pls limit the answer to technical points if at all possible. And if your first point is MTU then assume I have this solved by code running between my routers in the overlay even including making sure that my probe is inline with the data - hence identical ECMP hashing. Best, R. On Fri, Dec 6, 2019 at 4:13 PM Sander Steffann wrote: > Hi Ole, > > > If I own and manage three routers, R1 -- R2 -- R3. > > You are saying that if R1 sends a packet to R3, it is not allowed to > off-load some functions to R2? > > Going to be difficult to do stuff like service chaining then. > > This bit I don't mind that much, but what about: > > R1 -- R2 -- [open internet] -- R3 > or > R1 -- [open internet] -- R2 -- R3 > or even > R1 -- [open internet] -- R2 -- [open internet] -- R3 > > And what if you're an ISP and R1 is your customer's device? It is in your > routing domain but not in your administrative domain. What then? > > --00000000000040b0a505990b5a6b Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Sander,

To your spe= cific=C2=A0first question this is very popular deployment model .. just loo= k at SDWANs. So Internet is just a L3 transport for all routers in your adm= inistrative domain or global WAN. Spot on. I do sincerely hope that whateve= r the result be of this debate all features will be legal to run on my boxe= s regardless how I choose to interconnect them.=C2=A0

<= div>As (Internet) transit boxes would never be destination addresses of the= outermost header what problem do you see running anything=C2=A0one likes o= n R1 or R2 or R3 and transporting it via open Internet or perhaps some thir= d party networks ?=C2=A0

Just pls limit the answer= to technical points if at all possible.=C2=A0

And= if your first point is MTU then assume I have this solved by code running = between my routers in the overlay even including making sure that my probe = is inline with the data - hence identical ECMP hashing.=C2=A0
Best,
R.


On Fri, Dec 6= , 2019 at 4:13 PM Sander Steffann <sander@steffann.nl> wrote:
Hi Ole,

> If I own and manage three routers, R1 -- R2 -- R3.
> You are saying that if R1 sends a packet to R3, it is not allowed to o= ff-load some functions to R2?
> Going to be difficult to do stuff like service chaining then.

This bit I don't mind that much, but what about:

R1 -- R2 -- [open internet] -- R3
or
R1 -- [open internet] -- R2 -- R3
or even
R1 -- [open internet] -- R2 -- [open internet] -- R3

And what if you're an ISP and R1 is your customer's device? It is i= n your routing domain but not in your administrative domain. What then?
=
--00000000000040b0a505990b5a6b-- From nobody Fri Dec 6 08:21:46 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0193F120877; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 08:21:39 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=steffann.nl Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nU8G0eBOrvBz; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 08:21:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.sintact.nl (mail.sintact.nl [IPv6:2001:9e0:803::6]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4999912086C; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 08:21:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.sintact.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id E28B249; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 17:21:35 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=steffann.nl; h= x-mailer:references:in-reply-to:date:date:subject:subject :mime-version:content-type:content-type:message-id:from:from :received:received; s=mail; t=1575649293; bh=QX1CVnVpR5gb9RIcGv+ kccWQmJXoMEUjC+3Lxtcr05Q=; b=rb/fDONFTHgvR6Scjylp/fXFdRWDbYCJ+aq AH1/6LFHHzimgNAica8Cg5pQpt3IBtrUcJY05i9OyBWl+z0qKTSRZu/8UnlmDaVV iwI8CItcRKohMcXMbulR+yO7WhWdUSBwj57/hv0SCVq2NUbXF+xaapgnb5JU8ava xH/ZpBEM= X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at mail.sintact.nl Received: from mail.sintact.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.sintact.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id 8lVfm2dIYXsA; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 17:21:33 +0100 (CET) Received: from [IPv6:2a02:a213:a300:ce80:6075:199d:31e0:cdef] (unknown [IPv6:2a02:a213:a300:ce80:6075:199d:31e0:cdef]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mail.sintact.nl (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B47793C; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 17:21:33 +0100 (CET) X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett From: Sander Steffann Message-Id: <741EB111-DA80-4895-A7E3-3B71836E6176@steffann.nl> Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_B4A17B30-F66E-4000-980D-C43FBED2C401"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha256 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.0 \(3594.4.19\)) Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 17:21:32 +0100 In-Reply-To: Cc: SPRING WG , 6man <6man@ietf.org>, "int-ads@ietf.org" , rtg-ads To: Robert Raszuk References: <3AD3BD11-8C34-41FE-B88F-49A9F2561D78@cisco.com> <8DEDE597-B7B0-48F5-959E-69757315C2AC@employees.org> <4FAB68A3-C533-471D-94D0-3F6EB1F32FC1@employees.org> <1e36a492-5931-02de-cf85-63339522b13a@si6networks.com> <8A9BC46E-A018-41C0-BE47-4BABC30EFE79@employees.org> <20191205222740.GA9637@ernw.de> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3594.4.19) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 16:21:39 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_B4A17B30-F66E-4000-980D-C43FBED2C401 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi Robert, > To your specific first question this is very popular deployment model = .. just look at SDWANs. So Internet is just a L3 transport for all = routers in your administrative domain or global WAN. Spot on. I do = sincerely hope that whatever the result be of this debate all features = will be legal to run on my boxes regardless how I choose to interconnect = them. >=20 > As (Internet) transit boxes would never be destination addresses of = the outermost header what problem do you see running anything one likes = on R1 or R2 or R3 and transporting it via open Internet or perhaps some = third party networks ? So this is basically a tunnel over the open internet with all tunnel = endpoints in the same (or cooperating) administrative domain. In that = case it's indeed up to the participants to deal with and debug. So the tunnel model I don't mind. Can we be certain it indeed fits all = deployments and leaking isn't possible. Theory and practice are the same = in theory, but not in practice :) Cheers, Sander --Apple-Mail=_B4A17B30-F66E-4000-980D-C43FBED2C401 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEEl13OIanoifT0p8LWWPjdc9pon8sFAl3qgAwACgkQWPjdc9po n8ut1A/+N0F+ch7jjd1W2KzgCJU27/475GFB3KooFRljsnU0XESu+e/TFZvUJ+L2 gaqfAnHF5w6UpBXdoKyN0qGgBLnqrptDIkIRX8vyPzn71UH/CX5bS5eq/B528sz3 4VfHg4tatAONwtSKPBhW+F85EBgvfEuNDx4VcMMaTeu7+mmqgltRuBUQkyLyLhz2 dbe7dkBmgbY+sFcPNqeTn9wYVifneRU8WPD9xaSgv0Dobx0mtiNnSq7NjOigiyrK iKVup6Fiq5vzVJ13B6YbbIjiy8FaTzgHkO3a0cYrk/Eln0YTs/4HFnJp27Roz1jx BjMHenh1L28yAUtI+thh35zF06NM2My65FKbr3tevqiNpM0f/A4YupbPQHAn+HcC RcNZaX3OqiDgZtD67S8bVqlYHZLLo6AC3xbdeDy11RQgeWOq/IuSdduqF/thUltN 7hzint4dSjrn7ifBOsOhxDMcKl6tHzZMLoFKM2LIAd88ysACVYdCm7uHRcay7LiC ATW/HDzRgJDPdkhZXd5ZbKMcv+6rYyHrFu0nuna6KNCdY/l1/CbVC0sK6FQBQFfc jtDGYkYPsH0XsUn1a8lbgiHvwXa84RlvbzdKBYM8GY7TKRRYJioLBS/wR8vGVjfk mElrwqcw1xDAqiSVCcvdonYU4Jegl4A/u39XaSXSxYnQQysztqM= =7VP6 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_B4A17B30-F66E-4000-980D-C43FBED2C401-- From nobody Fri Dec 6 08:27:23 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 992281208E9; 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boundary="_000_BN7PR05MB569911AE261C5D834103E959AE5F0BN7PR05MB5699namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 6d728ed9-35d7-406a-4703-08d77a6928c7 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 06 Dec 2019 16:27:16.9538 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: pvTACsSjLaVdruLOWvtuX8DY55JgCmWR5flAhVQY7Un4L3ny2shlt5FlDSRXB9UvCxlXTRh4xV78XIRwc6qfzg== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN7PR05MB5778 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.95,18.0.572 definitions=2019-12-06_05:2019-12-05,2019-12-06 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_spam_notspam policy=outbound_spam score=0 adultscore=0 mlxscore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 spamscore=0 phishscore=0 malwarescore=0 bulkscore=0 priorityscore=1501 impostorscore=0 suspectscore=0 clxscore=1015 mlxlogscore=829 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-1910280000 definitions=main-1912060136 Archived-At: Subject: [spring] SRv6 Network Programming - Locators X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 16:27:21 -0000 --_000_BN7PR05MB569911AE261C5D834103E959AE5F0BN7PR05MB5699namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Authors, >From which of the IPv6 Special Purpose Address ranges (see RFC 6890, Sectio= n 2.2.3) can a locator be drawn? In some cases, it is obvious, but in other= s, it is not. Ron Juniper Business Use Only --_000_BN7PR05MB569911AE261C5D834103E959AE5F0BN7PR05MB5699namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Authors,

 

From which of the IPv6 Special Purpose Address range= s (see RFC 6890, Section 2.2.3) can a locator be drawn? In some cases, it i= s obvious, but in others, it is not.

 

        &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            Ron

 


Juniper Business= Use Only

--_000_BN7PR05MB569911AE261C5D834103E959AE5F0BN7PR05MB5699namp_-- From nobody Fri Dec 6 08:32:26 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F18E12093A for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 08:32:20 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=raszuk.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BBj6wieBrO2z for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 08:32:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qt1-x835.google.com (mail-qt1-x835.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::835]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A46A712094F for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 08:31:56 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qt1-x835.google.com with SMTP id g1so7664043qtj.6 for ; Fri, 06 Dec 2019 08:31:56 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=raszuk.net; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=hNGGIgn581zATyUEOnkSln0CBgXB4ziejJJJZQkTO7M=; b=P4284PpCauGZullP6xal3gtkIBF1hvGiDVWRFURmTlLDFSy0zLsTUh5fatJvoO8y8i Nz7THZ6DQwWtzVHULwfzwP2YXg6ec6Vow2ffGIe1QGknM7+XRCOIh0HuEbVBBXFerUUT Uq9Su4iCgIC/zL/waSN/ZSNDykQBwDXGR1Ns75Lbfht9PzCQr5wLkqBK0/FFKvNCMbaw wSydnpaBpSz3Wc4q+e4iTWoGavDvpC+cGVru8J3ehK17gYSe2rsQ895kUhoWnrY/zxOE nKKFlByn8hLTHXTNGh+4578d5KbHVkNbuBsI/xZOBiRF1FiZkUiwp/hs4jUGIzMC5shV STdw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=hNGGIgn581zATyUEOnkSln0CBgXB4ziejJJJZQkTO7M=; b=SZKzt5B1BFfr8r/CCgvP4PLbQAHKx2X+CId2u4m0HXJ5UXcRldrEObcbE4FzE3pIED 6gOiEMvUEvZM5JlvbfPemL6pswVpiAHUVJa3DGdYxdF4l6RDVP/D579u6+1mljJV590s BqaW9tYcUwEh1BgWO+7aE9AGVSZSMgoiGzp86UEQ1u3IFyfMaXlNeX6H8SI5UWULETMM 8J9IRD3Dm4Hx+Ij7l59cpJGsEKCVveLt0Hw8JJzTwFJboW1pHMQP8ymqgw8PDifKiZv1 fyv7lW0AxYxLtN8mVqMSfmsVf+wWPQjXL5wT4SNmOs1GOck2XhBiprBsjnQVJaDYVnkD FFqw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVC1md6yegpkggVILoCSKIvR8W3XRrrnB9Uv8j1t9bDQCOZIG8d /2U1g8kihUpwRizLZL+dk+TBMHxarqOGYYi+L2Bs8w== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwstmtUISW259stdxZyxgQuriAPGLjyTYykQjXuXYUHwO8B41TDINnJLXhp6aQU5tOrxUplui0rq3hcRzer580= X-Received: by 2002:ac8:37d0:: with SMTP id e16mr13415229qtc.311.1575649915665; Fri, 06 Dec 2019 08:31:55 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <3AD3BD11-8C34-41FE-B88F-49A9F2561D78@cisco.com> <8DEDE597-B7B0-48F5-959E-69757315C2AC@employees.org> <4FAB68A3-C533-471D-94D0-3F6EB1F32FC1@employees.org> <1e36a492-5931-02de-cf85-63339522b13a@si6networks.com> <8A9BC46E-A018-41C0-BE47-4BABC30EFE79@employees.org> <20191205222740.GA9637@ernw.de> <741EB111-DA80-4895-A7E3-3B71836E6176@steffann.nl> In-Reply-To: <741EB111-DA80-4895-A7E3-3B71836E6176@steffann.nl> From: Robert Raszuk Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 17:31:47 +0100 Message-ID: To: Sander Steffann Cc: SPRING WG , 6man <6man@ietf.org>, "int-ads@ietf.org" , rtg-ads Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000839e7a05990b9595" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 16:32:20 -0000 --000000000000839e7a05990b9595 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi, Inline. On Fri, Dec 6, 2019 at 5:21 PM Sander Steffann wrote: > Hi Robert, > > > To your specific first question this is very popular deployment model .. > just look at SDWANs. So Internet is just a L3 transport for all routers in > your administrative domain or global WAN. Spot on. I do sincerely hope that > whatever the result be of this debate all features will be legal to run on > my boxes regardless how I choose to interconnect them. > > > > As (Internet) transit boxes would never be destination addresses of the > outermost header what problem do you see running anything one likes on R1 > or R2 or R3 and transporting it via open Internet or perhaps some third > party networks ? > > So this is basically a tunnel over the open internet with all tunnel > endpoints in the same (or cooperating) administrative domain. In that case > it's indeed up to the participants to deal with and debug. > Ok very cool. So it looks like we have quick and easy agreement on that one. Chairs please take a note on that. So the tunnel model I don't mind. Can we be certain it indeed fits all > deployments and leaking isn't possible. Theory and practice are the same in > theory, but not in practice :) > Very true - no argument. But what is "leaking" ? If I am forwarding within my own address space as we just agreed this is ok - no leaking. Now if I will construct the packet stuff it with whatever legal or illegal EHs and send it towards the address that does not belong to me - this is not leaking but an attack vector. Can this happen - oh yes. Almost certainly it will happen. So we need to protect our edges from such attacks regardless what 6man or spring or xyz will standardize or allow to insert or remove from the packet header. Sounds to me like a very important topic but a bit orthogonal to subject of this specific thread. Many thx, R. --000000000000839e7a05990b9595 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,

Inline.=C2=A0=

On Fri, Dec 6, 2019 at 5:21 PM Sander Steffann <sander@steffann.nl> wrote:
Hi Robert,

> To your specific first question this is very popular deployment model = .. just look at SDWANs. So Internet is just a L3 transport for all routers = in your administrative domain or global WAN. Spot on. I do sincerely hope t= hat whatever the result be of this debate all features will be legal to run= on my boxes regardless how I choose to interconnect them.
>
> As (Internet) transit boxes would never be destination addresses of th= e outermost header what problem do you see running anything one likes on R1= or R2 or R3 and transporting it via open Internet or perhaps some third pa= rty networks ?

So this is basically a tunnel over the open internet with all tunnel endpoi= nts in the same (or cooperating) administrative domain. In that case it'= ;s indeed up to the participants to deal with and debug.

Ok very cool. So it lo= oks like we have quick and easy agreement on that one. Chairs please take a= note on that.=C2=A0

So the tunnel model I don't mind. Can we be cert= ain it indeed fits all deployments and leaking isn't possible. Theory a= nd practice are the same in theory, but not in practice :)
=

Very true - no argument. But wh= at is "leaking" ? If I am forwarding within my own address space = as we just agreed this is ok - no leaking. Now if I will construct the pack= et stuff it with whatever legal or illegal EHs and send it towards the addr= ess that does not belong to me - this is not leaking but an attack vector.= =C2=A0

Can this happen - oh yes. Almost certainly=C2=A0it will = happen. So we need to protect our edges from such attacks regardless what 6= man or spring or xyz will standardize or allow to insert or remove from the= packet header.=C2=A0=C2=A0

Sounds to me like a very important topic but a bit orthogonal to s= ubject of this specific thread.

Many thx,
R.

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boundary="_000_BN7PR05MB56993795C0DA9AD3649F9BADAE5F0BN7PR05MB5699namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 0a40950a-5673-4920-f86f-08d77a6ae8d7 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 06 Dec 2019 16:39:48.2147 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: 2H6R6bF8oQBw7xYkub1quDlT6BG06Nv07mY4Cp+K7qK6AyaTM5B3iYIKjMBhDRSbZFTmLH/1a2m0358Ozg2bJw== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN7PR05MB4195 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.95,18.0.572 definitions=2019-12-06_05:2019-12-05,2019-12-06 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_spam_notspam policy=outbound_spam score=0 clxscore=1015 priorityscore=1501 lowpriorityscore=0 suspectscore=0 spamscore=0 malwarescore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 adultscore=0 mlxscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-1910280000 definitions=main-1912060137 Archived-At: Subject: [spring] SRv6 Network Programming - ICMP Source Address Selection X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 16:39:55 -0000 --_000_BN7PR05MB56993795C0DA9AD3649F9BADAE5F0BN7PR05MB5699namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Authors, When an SRv6 node sends an ICMP message, how does it select the ICMP messag= e's source address? Section 2.2 of RFC 4443 offers two options. If you think that a SID is a un= icast address, the first option is applicable. If you think that a SID is n= ot a unicast address, the second option is applicable. Ron Juniper Business Use Only --_000_BN7PR05MB56993795C0DA9AD3649F9BADAE5F0BN7PR05MB5699namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Authors,

 

When an SRv6 node sends an ICMP message, how does it= select the ICMP message’s source address?

 

Section 2.2 of RFC 4443 offers two options. If you t= hink that a SID is a unicast address, the first option is applicable. If yo= u think that a SID is not a unicast address, the second option is applicabl= e.

 

        &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;          Ron


Juniper Business= Use Only

--_000_BN7PR05MB56993795C0DA9AD3649F9BADAE5F0BN7PR05MB5699namp_-- From nobody Fri Dec 6 08:53:13 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 161541209B7; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 08:53:07 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CPYu8XGFpfpt; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 08:53:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wr1-x42e.google.com (mail-wr1-x42e.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::42e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A657F1209AF; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 08:53:04 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wr1-x42e.google.com with SMTP id z3so8546638wru.3; Fri, 06 Dec 2019 08:53:04 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=B/4fuulpj6CvhTi0O8I1HsA4TVUCtNpsXk6uJ9D4wXI=; b=ASrxZnyPgluqDkgkK0QTdpTQ90alKiqgmEj6RW2YLIn3cGZJv5OfwIo0RHbSMtwHIr Ek3/pzaNAPbOj6ZATqIgWjNJ2h02S38l0IIE8dNphzUFM3vqy2tmSoeO5hWhUtJdfsIZ H9g4UlDsx1dpGi2gVPYZnhefcrqiZmK5zBgLIMSc27tsLv/vesRPoVVefJL7+HpyPxiU J8uFc2JRMPxlArg19OpB9sjs2/hfnDP7ygYJHh3RhTIk5IcqLekmZYzIFWgZZhs3jHav wto414qCCr2b/lxqmiJjwI2ghnG0DeAcsufZXGZT1llgrZvodjFAeamnbhfVXhyqwJov ESIQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=B/4fuulpj6CvhTi0O8I1HsA4TVUCtNpsXk6uJ9D4wXI=; b=Kz1IvnJ8rU/VVXysgcTX6ssW44V08lVZJxijTzz9cYsS/nnbJx991hkPBXct+7XBmf XI0iQz022rg+zZ9m4UvIrf8j87SS5hBL1uypZwYbRMVLRRzT1so2t9OXkByP245pyaER UEUMUfyBbskYsdZoNYiJaA9apvdhk81iWi3+9wOBo1Lax7mi5T6oIVocgknNCx2DXHdd uo1uxV1alHkBcD8h2qB97mUwrxJvOQItW/WQTrf0DW6tYEbFumRLvbw4E89X4xyURZeh 2A+Bq8yr7Y+A+v7OulXYDiNbNO1FMOZkCZhnTw/2c7B0Ysckuww4O9S9FG8Z3f15fF1K QsbA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWZoVbBQILbZxBfOeu+pvCBgWYy6sN7HteTbCxiNkhjs6EXYyTc 5Kx99YyZdKo5MtuV6CoGaEY= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqy+KuxcIH+/xRdzv9tZDJMDNAGbQfSsQwGCD4aqg+KI7ffnPXpQIU8gmXODSpahyN7daqnyHA== X-Received: by 2002:a5d:4d4a:: with SMTP id a10mr16896939wru.220.1575651183024; Fri, 06 Dec 2019 08:53:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.246.31.194] ([96.47.52.153]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id q15sm16778769wrr.11.2019.12.06.08.52.59 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 06 Dec 2019 08:53:01 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Hinden Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_2C0DAB48-5C9E-4093-AAB7-4B846B8C11A9"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 08:52:55 -0800 In-Reply-To: Cc: Bob Hinden , Ron Bonica , SPRING WG , 6man <6man@ietf.org>, "int-ads@ietf.org" , rtg-ads , Fernando Gont To: Tom Herbert References: <52132FA9-669E-4B32-BDC8-6F06C98315F3@gmail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 16:53:07 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_2C0DAB48-5C9E-4093-AAB7-4B846B8C11A9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi Tom, > On Dec 6, 2019, at 7:58 AM, Tom Herbert wrote: >=20 > On Thu, Dec 5, 2019 at 4:30 PM Bob Hinden = wrote: >>=20 >> Hi, >>=20 >>> On Dec 5, 2019, at 16:20, Ron Bonica = wrote: >>>=20 >>> =EF=BB=BFEnno, >>>=20 >>> That is how I parse Ole's message. But we can let Ole speak for = himself. >>=20 >> To clarify, the current consensus is the text in RFC8200. >>=20 >> There is discussion ongoing in 6man on this topic, but it is = impossible to say how that will turn out, or when. >>=20 > Bob, >=20 > The advice from the chairs seems to be continue discussion. The > problem with that is that EH insertion has been discussed ad nauseum > over the past two years since the draft first appeared. It seems like > we are at the point where the same arguments on the topic are just > being rehashed on the list. As you mention above, the current > consensus is that the EH insertion conflicts with RFC8200. Right now > it seems like further discussion is open ended and without any > constraints a likely outcome will be attrition and eventual > acquiescence to accepting yet another non-conformant protocol that > became so widely deployed so that it can be fixed. I think the difference in what is happening now, is that we have two = drafts that are being discussed instead of just volumes of email. This = is the process that should allow us to see if there is a consensus = beyond what is in RFC8200. I won=E2=80=99t speculate what the outcome = of this will be. IETF standards are voluntary, and are designed to create = interoperability between different implementations. Since we don=E2=80=99= t have IETF Protocol Police we can=E2=80=99t do anything about other = approaches. However, I note that many customers prefer products that = support interoperability between different implementations and vendors. > In light of this, can the chairs or AD provide some guidance or > expectations on framing any further discussion on the topic to ensure > that it's productive and the process is moving forward. My take is that the discussion of the two drafts in 6man should = continue. Any work that wants to rely an outcome of that discussion, = should wait. As I said earlier, it=E2=80=99s hard to say when that = will be done. Otherwise, I think the other work should be compatible = with what is in RFC8200. Bob >=20 > Thanks, > Tom >=20 >> Bob >> over the >>=20 >>>=20 >>> Ron >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Juniper Business Use Only >>>=20 >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Enno Rey >>> Sent: Thursday, December 5, 2019 5:48 PM >>> To: Ron Bonica >>> Cc: otroan@employees.org; Fernando Gont ; = SPRING WG ; 6man <6man@ietf.org>; int-ads@ietf.org; = rtg-ads >>> Subject: Re: We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: = Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping) >>>=20 >>> Hi Ron, >>>=20 >>>> On Thu, Dec 05, 2019 at 10:08:53PM +0000, Ron Bonica wrote: >>>> Peace Gentlemen, >>>>=20 >>>> For the purpose of this thread, I think that we have all of the = information that we need. Consensus regarding header insertion and = removal is "evolving". >>>=20 >>> not meaning to nitpick and admittedly I'm not super-familiar with = all nuances of IETF processes but this means that no type of consensus = has been reached yet, correct? >>>=20 >>> thanks >>>=20 >>> Enno >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> We need to let that evolution progress, and not make any = assumptions regarding its outcome. >>>>=20 >>>> Ron >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> Juniper Business Use Only >>>>=20 >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: otroan@employees.org >>>> Sent: Thursday, December 5, 2019 4:42 PM >>>> To: Fernando Gont >>>> Cc: Ron Bonica ; SPRING WG ; >>>> 6man <6man@ietf.org>; int-ads@ietf.org; rtg-ads >>>> >>>> Subject: Re: We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: = Network >>>> Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping) >>>>=20 >>>> Fernando, >>>>=20 >>>>>>> Point taken. Could you comment on the current state of WG = consensus? >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> The working group session in Singapore ended with what appeared = to be a view that we should continue work on both documents (Mark's and = the Voyer draft). >>>>>> For the state of the wg consensus, I haven't checked with Bob, = but I think he will agree with it being classified as "evolving". >>>>>=20 >>>>> I polled you about this decision >>>>> = (https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/i >>>>> pv >>>>> = 6/12Qwp_eeQT2EmbUrSxBLL5HTcnM__;!8WoA6RjC81c!QH6T9eu4QEGAh1tVtPAiXW2SjsZMx= fQdUYen3nv2CPDS4DWlFeKu7c4TwztzwnbH$ ), and you never responded. >>>>=20 >>>> Sorry, which decision is that supposed to be? >>>>=20 >>>>> Suresh (INT AD) clarified this one list, here: >>>>> = https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ip >>>>> v6 >>>>> = /Db6_SGfmeIDzaE56Ps5kUDCYEzY__;!8WoA6RjC81c!QH6T9eu4QEGAh1tVtPAiXW2S >>>>> js ZMxfQdUYen3nv2CPDS4DWlFeKu7c4Tw1iPjJAl$ >>>>>=20 >>>>> Suresh noted that there wasn't consensus call, even at the f2f >>>>> meeting (not to mention that the list was never polled in this = respect). >>>>=20 >>>> Right, neither of these two documents are adopted as working group = documents. And perhaps a more correct phrasing above would be that "The = working group session in Singapore ended with what appeared to be a view = that work could continue on both of these documents". >>>>=20 >>>>> I would say that it seems we have not been following the processes >>>>> that should be followed. This has happened repeatedly over time, = for >>>>> this very same topic. The process seems to be biased, and thus >>>>> unfair to the rest of the wg participants. >>>>=20 >>>> Which process are you talking about? Is that documented in an RFC? >>>> You seem to take it on yourself to represent the "rest of the wg = participants", but from my perspective it looks like a few very loud = voices. >>>> Perhaps we should let others speak up, if there is anything more to = be said on this topic. >>>>=20 >>>> Ole >>>>=20 >>>> = -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> IETF IPv6 working group mailing list >>>> ipv6@ietf.org >>>> Administrative Requests: >>>> = https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 >>>> = __;!8WoA6RjC81c!TjLEU67_JCgw5HSu4C7UhFOC61xLkOhpmW0Ev51wqvHbECMOysxK3t >>>> 9RS5pxqO3g$ >>>> = -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>=20 >>> -- >>> Enno Rey >>>=20 >>> Cell: +49 173 6745902 >>> Twitter: @Enno_Insinuator >>>=20 >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> IETF IPv6 working group mailing list >>> ipv6@ietf.org >>> Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>=20 >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> IETF IPv6 working group mailing list >> ipv6@ietf.org >> Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- --Apple-Mail=_2C0DAB48-5C9E-4093-AAB7-4B846B8C11A9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEm0rfRsOCoyamPexGrut0EXfnu6gFAl3qh2cACgkQrut0EXfn u6jRhAgAj7/okrO0mB0wCouZrgbVH3K/BW83PrXiks4aHX/jMOjWnp0+Bf7uTyUZ 0c5ihDyw1CUoK4+3G/xoHMWtWyjsaS83RUO91xsJdDIwzKtoK96A+pFuVp1N1nWc yaVW04R3VDjlHRpquZwImcToe6FOCHcSnNICiGJvrujiWk/lqHGjB5gxG8IAZ/Cb 1Cq3JIxEYh1RE8V+Dd4Ikr1JD2SJG0EabxW36rcsbxxlvsgYH2TQHwvbgsIHGpu8 rPBUUQ5/1VSGAgzRW1dia6mYtsG4ugxwhzkFPrTPjQAFdNqOQL8x7BsBd1C3URLu d7AtAw0l/ihvO8p/JAXFOhYpc7WsLA== =DUI4 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_2C0DAB48-5C9E-4093-AAB7-4B846B8C11A9-- From nobody Fri Dec 6 08:58:59 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9C41120105; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 08:58:52 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id p-kzro5G87iv; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 08:58:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from fgont.go6lab.si (fgont.go6lab.si [91.239.96.14]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 735A5120071; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 08:58:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.4.77] (unknown [190.179.35.56]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by fgont.go6lab.si (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 8CDDA8621E; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 17:58:46 +0100 (CET) To: Sander Steffann , bruno.decraene@orange.com Cc: SPRING WG List , "6man@ietf.org" <6man@ietf.org>, draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming References: <17421_1575566127_5DE93B2F_17421_93_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D1A3DA@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> From: Fernando Gont Autocrypt: addr=fernando@gont.com.ar; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBE5so2gBEACzBQBLUy8nzgAzSZn6ViXT6TmZBFNYNqTpPRvTVtUqF6+tkI+IEd9N2E8p pXUXCd0W4dkxz6o7pagnK63m4QSueggvp881RVVHOF8oTSHOdnGxLfLeLNJFKE1FOutU3vod GK/wG/Fwzkv9MebdXpMlLV8nnJuAt66XGl/lU1JrNfrKO4SoYQi4TsB/waUQcygh7OR/PEO0 EttiU8kZUbZNv58WH+PAj/rdZCrgUSiGXiWUQQKShqKnJxLuAcTcg5YRwL8se/V6ciW0QR9i /sr52gSmLLbW5N3hAoO+nv1V/9SjJAUvzXu43k8sua/XlCXkqU7uLj41CRR72JeUZ4DQsYfP LfNPC98ZGTVxbWbFtLXxpzzDDT8i3uo7w1LJ2Ij/d5ezcARqw01HGljWWxnidUrjbTpxkJ9X EllcsH94mer728j/HKzC9OcTuz6WUBP3Crgl6Q47gY5ZIiF0lsmd9/wxbaq5NiJ+lGuBRZrD v0dQx9KmyI0/pH2AF8cW897/6ypvcyD/1/11CJcN+uAGIrklwJlVpRSbKbFtGC6In592lhu7 wnK8cgyP5cTU+vva9+g6P1wehi4bylXdlKc6mMphbtSA+T3WBNP557+mh3L62l4pGaEGidcZ DLYT2Ud18eAJmxU3HnM8P3iZZgeoK7oqgb53/eg96vkONXNIOwARAQABtCVGZXJuYW5kbyBH b250IDxmZ29udEBzaTZuZXR3b3Jrcy5jb20+iQJBBBMBAgArAhsjBQkSzAMABgsJCAcDAgYV CAIJCgsEFgIDAQIeAQIXgAUCTmylpQIZAQAKCRCuJQ1VHU50kv7wD/9fuNtTfxSLk3B3Hs3p ixTy8YXVjdkVwWlnJjFd7BOWmg7sI+LDhpjGfT6+ddOiwkumnvUZpObodj4ysH0i8c7P4C5t F9yu7WjklSlrB5Rth2CGChg5bKt541z2WHkFFxys9qBLmCSYDeKQkzLqhCjIUJizY2kOJ2GI MnSFDzJjhSFEh//oW830Y8fel1xnf/NVF+lBVtRMtMOfoWUqDjvP3sJ1G4zgkDCnF0CfncLx +hq2Mv26Uq9OTzvLH9aSQQ/f067BOkKAJKsfHdborX4E96ISTz57/4xECRSMr5dVsKVm4Y// uVIsb+L5z+a32FaiBZIAKDgnJO7Z8j6CV5e5yfuBTtX52Yi9HjYYqnYJGSDxYd6igD4bWu+7 xmJPHjkdqZgGV6dQIgiUfqkU+s5Cv350vK48CMaT/ZLo2BdsMhWsmaHmb+waePUMyq6E4E9x 9Js+EJb9ZiCfxS9exgieZQpet1L36IvhiwByvkQM009ywfa30JeMOltUtfLi5V06WQWsTzPL 5C+4cpkguSuAJVDTctjCA0moIeVDOpJ8WH9voQ4IeWapQnX35OIoj1jGJqqYdx65gc1ygbyx b8vw+pJ9E5GLse5TQnYifOWpXzX9053dtbwp/2OVhU4KLlzfCPCEsoTyfu9nIZxdI2PMwiL5 M85BfjX4NmwBLmPGoLkCDQRObKNoARAAqqXCkr250BchRDmi+05F5UQFgylUh10XTAJxBeaQ UNtdxZiZRm6jgomSrqeYtricM9t9K0qb4X2ZXmAMW8o8AYW3RrQHTjcBwMnAKzUIEXXWaLfG cid/ygmvWzIHgMDQKP+MUq1AGQrnvt/MRLvZLyczAV1RTXS58qNaxtaSpc3K/yrDozh/a4pu WcUsVvIkzyx43sqcwamDSBb6U8JFoZizuLXiARLLASgyHrrCedNIZdWSx0z0iHEpZIelA2ih AGLiSMtmtikVEyrJICgO81DkKNCbBbPg+7fi23V6M24+3syHk3IdQibTtBMxinIPyLFF0byJ aGm0fmjefhnmVJyCIl/FDkCHprVhTme57G2/WdoGnUvnT7mcwDRb8XY5nNRkOJsqqLPemKjz kx8mXdQbunXtX9bKyVgd1gIl+LLsxbdzRCch773UBVoortPdK3kMyLtZ4uMeDX3comjx+6VL bztUdJ1Zc9/njwVG8fgmQ+0Kj5+bzQfUY+MmX0HTXIx3B4R1I1a8QoOwi1N+iZNdewV5Zfq+ 29NlQLnVPjCRCKbaz9k6RJ2oIti55YUI6zSsL3lmlOXsRbXN5bRswFczkNSCJxJMlDiyAUIC WOay7ymzvgzPa+BY/mYn94vRaurDQ4/ljOfj6oqgfjts+dJev4Jj89vp8MQI3KJpZPEAEQEA AYkCJQQYAQIADwUCTmyjaAIbDAUJEswDAAAKCRCuJQ1VHU50km4xEACho45PZrUjY4Zl2opR DFNo5a6roTOPpgwO9PcBb3I5F8yX2Dnew+9OhgWXbBhAFq4DCx+9Gjs43Bn60qbZTDbLGJ/m 8N4PwEiq0e5MKceYcbetEdEUWhm5L6psU9ZZ82GR3UGxPXYe+oifEoJjOXQ39avf9S8p3yKP Diil0E79rn7LbJjMcgMLyjFg9SDoJ6pHLtniJoDhEAaSSgeV7Y745+gyMIdtQmrFHfqrFdjq D6G0HE+Z68ywc5KN67YxhvhBmSycs1ZSKAXv1zLDlXdmjHDHkU3xMcB+RkuiTba8yRFYwb/n j62CC4NhFTuIKOc4ta3dJsyXTGh/hO9UjWUnmAGfd0fnzTBZF8Qlnw/8ftx5lt4/O+eqY1EN RITScnPzXE/wMOlTtdkddQ+QN6xt6jyR2XtAIi7aAFHypIqA3lLI9hF9x+lj4UQ2yA9LqpoX 6URpPOd13JhAyDe47cwsP1u9Y+OBvQTVLSvw7Liu2b4KjqL4lx++VdBi7dXsjJ6kjIRjI6Lb WVpxe8LumMCuVDepTafBZ49gr7Fgc4F9ZSCo6ChgQNLn6WDzIkqFX+42KuHz90AHWhuW+KZR 1aJylERWeTcMCGUSBptd48KniWmD6kPKpzwoMkJtEXTuO2lVuborxzwuqOTNuYg9lWDl7zKt wPI9brGzquUHy4qRrA== Message-ID: Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 13:22:31 -0300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 16:58:53 -0000 On 6/12/19 12:14, Sander Steffann wrote: > Hi, > >> This email starts a two weeks Working Group Last Call on draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming [1]. >> >> Please read this document if you haven't read the most recent version, and send your comments to the SPRING WG list, no later than December 20. > > I think there are plenty of already documented reasons that this draft should have never been thrown into WGLC in the first place. +1 Also, as noted, I support Ron Bonica's WGLC comments. Thanks, -- Fernando Gont e-mail: fernando@gont.com.ar || fgont@si6networks.com PGP Fingerprint: 7809 84F5 322E 45C7 F1C9 3945 96EE A9EF D076 FFF1 From nobody Fri Dec 6 08:59:05 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB4001209B2; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 08:59:00 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FDH9F89YbNuy; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 08:58:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from fgont.go6lab.si (fgont.go6lab.si [91.239.96.14]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3A61D1209EE; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 08:58:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.4.77] (unknown [190.179.35.56]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by fgont.go6lab.si (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 40BEA8625B; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 17:58:53 +0100 (CET) To: otroan@employees.org, Enno Rey Cc: rtg-ads , SPRING WG , 6man <6man@ietf.org>, "int-ads@ietf.org" References: <3AD3BD11-8C34-41FE-B88F-49A9F2561D78@cisco.com> <8DEDE597-B7B0-48F5-959E-69757315C2AC@employees.org> <4FAB68A3-C533-471D-94D0-3F6EB1F32FC1@employees.org> <1e36a492-5931-02de-cf85-63339522b13a@si6networks.com> <8A9BC46E-A018-41C0-BE47-4BABC30EFE79@employees.org> <20191205222740.GA9637@ernw.de> From: Fernando Gont Autocrypt: addr=fgont@si6networks.com; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBE5so2gBEACzBQBLUy8nzgAzSZn6ViXT6TmZBFNYNqTpPRvTVtUqF6+tkI+IEd9N2E8p pXUXCd0W4dkxz6o7pagnK63m4QSueggvp881RVVHOF8oTSHOdnGxLfLeLNJFKE1FOutU3vod GK/wG/Fwzkv9MebdXpMlLV8nnJuAt66XGl/lU1JrNfrKO4SoYQi4TsB/waUQcygh7OR/PEO0 EttiU8kZUbZNv58WH+PAj/rdZCrgUSiGXiWUQQKShqKnJxLuAcTcg5YRwL8se/V6ciW0QR9i /sr52gSmLLbW5N3hAoO+nv1V/9SjJAUvzXu43k8sua/XlCXkqU7uLj41CRR72JeUZ4DQsYfP LfNPC98ZGTVxbWbFtLXxpzzDDT8i3uo7w1LJ2Ij/d5ezcARqw01HGljWWxnidUrjbTpxkJ9X EllcsH94mer728j/HKzC9OcTuz6WUBP3Crgl6Q47gY5ZIiF0lsmd9/wxbaq5NiJ+lGuBRZrD v0dQx9KmyI0/pH2AF8cW897/6ypvcyD/1/11CJcN+uAGIrklwJlVpRSbKbFtGC6In592lhu7 wnK8cgyP5cTU+vva9+g6P1wehi4bylXdlKc6mMphbtSA+T3WBNP557+mh3L62l4pGaEGidcZ DLYT2Ud18eAJmxU3HnM8P3iZZgeoK7oqgb53/eg96vkONXNIOwARAQABtCVGZXJuYW5kbyBH b250IDxmZ29udEBzaTZuZXR3b3Jrcy5jb20+iQJBBBMBAgArAhsjBQkSzAMABgsJCAcDAgYV CAIJCgsEFgIDAQIeAQIXgAUCTmylpQIZAQAKCRCuJQ1VHU50kv7wD/9fuNtTfxSLk3B3Hs3p ixTy8YXVjdkVwWlnJjFd7BOWmg7sI+LDhpjGfT6+ddOiwkumnvUZpObodj4ysH0i8c7P4C5t F9yu7WjklSlrB5Rth2CGChg5bKt541z2WHkFFxys9qBLmCSYDeKQkzLqhCjIUJizY2kOJ2GI MnSFDzJjhSFEh//oW830Y8fel1xnf/NVF+lBVtRMtMOfoWUqDjvP3sJ1G4zgkDCnF0CfncLx +hq2Mv26Uq9OTzvLH9aSQQ/f067BOkKAJKsfHdborX4E96ISTz57/4xECRSMr5dVsKVm4Y// uVIsb+L5z+a32FaiBZIAKDgnJO7Z8j6CV5e5yfuBTtX52Yi9HjYYqnYJGSDxYd6igD4bWu+7 xmJPHjkdqZgGV6dQIgiUfqkU+s5Cv350vK48CMaT/ZLo2BdsMhWsmaHmb+waePUMyq6E4E9x 9Js+EJb9ZiCfxS9exgieZQpet1L36IvhiwByvkQM009ywfa30JeMOltUtfLi5V06WQWsTzPL 5C+4cpkguSuAJVDTctjCA0moIeVDOpJ8WH9voQ4IeWapQnX35OIoj1jGJqqYdx65gc1ygbyx b8vw+pJ9E5GLse5TQnYifOWpXzX9053dtbwp/2OVhU4KLlzfCPCEsoTyfu9nIZxdI2PMwiL5 M85BfjX4NmwBLmPGoLkCDQRObKNoARAAqqXCkr250BchRDmi+05F5UQFgylUh10XTAJxBeaQ UNtdxZiZRm6jgomSrqeYtricM9t9K0qb4X2ZXmAMW8o8AYW3RrQHTjcBwMnAKzUIEXXWaLfG cid/ygmvWzIHgMDQKP+MUq1AGQrnvt/MRLvZLyczAV1RTXS58qNaxtaSpc3K/yrDozh/a4pu WcUsVvIkzyx43sqcwamDSBb6U8JFoZizuLXiARLLASgyHrrCedNIZdWSx0z0iHEpZIelA2ih AGLiSMtmtikVEyrJICgO81DkKNCbBbPg+7fi23V6M24+3syHk3IdQibTtBMxinIPyLFF0byJ aGm0fmjefhnmVJyCIl/FDkCHprVhTme57G2/WdoGnUvnT7mcwDRb8XY5nNRkOJsqqLPemKjz kx8mXdQbunXtX9bKyVgd1gIl+LLsxbdzRCch773UBVoortPdK3kMyLtZ4uMeDX3comjx+6VL bztUdJ1Zc9/njwVG8fgmQ+0Kj5+bzQfUY+MmX0HTXIx3B4R1I1a8QoOwi1N+iZNdewV5Zfq+ 29NlQLnVPjCRCKbaz9k6RJ2oIti55YUI6zSsL3lmlOXsRbXN5bRswFczkNSCJxJMlDiyAUIC WOay7ymzvgzPa+BY/mYn94vRaurDQ4/ljOfj6oqgfjts+dJev4Jj89vp8MQI3KJpZPEAEQEA AYkCJQQYAQIADwUCTmyjaAIbDAUJEswDAAAKCRCuJQ1VHU50km4xEACho45PZrUjY4Zl2opR DFNo5a6roTOPpgwO9PcBb3I5F8yX2Dnew+9OhgWXbBhAFq4DCx+9Gjs43Bn60qbZTDbLGJ/m 8N4PwEiq0e5MKceYcbetEdEUWhm5L6psU9ZZ82GR3UGxPXYe+oifEoJjOXQ39avf9S8p3yKP Diil0E79rn7LbJjMcgMLyjFg9SDoJ6pHLtniJoDhEAaSSgeV7Y745+gyMIdtQmrFHfqrFdjq D6G0HE+Z68ywc5KN67YxhvhBmSycs1ZSKAXv1zLDlXdmjHDHkU3xMcB+RkuiTba8yRFYwb/n j62CC4NhFTuIKOc4ta3dJsyXTGh/hO9UjWUnmAGfd0fnzTBZF8Qlnw/8ftx5lt4/O+eqY1EN RITScnPzXE/wMOlTtdkddQ+QN6xt6jyR2XtAIi7aAFHypIqA3lLI9hF9x+lj4UQ2yA9LqpoX 6URpPOd13JhAyDe47cwsP1u9Y+OBvQTVLSvw7Liu2b4KjqL4lx++VdBi7dXsjJ6kjIRjI6Lb WVpxe8LumMCuVDepTafBZ49gr7Fgc4F9ZSCo6ChgQNLn6WDzIkqFX+42KuHz90AHWhuW+KZR 1aJylERWeTcMCGUSBptd48KniWmD6kPKpzwoMkJtEXTuO2lVuborxzwuqOTNuYg9lWDl7zKt wPI9brGzquUHy4qRrA== Message-ID: Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 13:58:22 -0300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 16:59:04 -0000 Ole, Let me highlight a few things before getting into specific comments. 1) The IETF has no consensus about the concept of "limited domains" that you are referring to. That means that there are no nuances in this respect: a document that violates RFC8200, violates RFC8200. And if there is no consensus to formally update RFC8200, then it should not be violating it. 2) No document has been adopted in that line. Not wg call for adoption was even done in that line. Hence, the status of an individual proposal in that respects bears no change when it comes to #1 above. 3) As a wg participant, of course you are entitled to have any view whatsoever on the topic. But as a wg chair, I would expect you to respect and pursue the above, which are our existing processes, practices, and ruls. Otherwise that would seem like an indication of conflict of interests to me. Do you want to change that? -- Fine. Write a draft, and get consensus to push it forward. That's what mere mortals like myself that do not work for a big powetful vendor are normally required to do. More in-line.... On 6/12/19 05:34, otroan@employees.org wrote: > >>>> comply with it. The onus is on them, not on us asking folks to comply >>>> with existing standards. >>> >>> Yes, we have heard your position on this now. >>> There is of course a lot more nuance to this argument. >> >> could you please explain said 'nuance' in more detail? > > I could try, although I fear it will be a rehash of what has already been said many times already in this debate. > > The IETF and the Internet architecture has a pugnacious relationship with packet mangling in the network. > Steve embodied the Internet architeure principles in the IPv6 protocol suite. > The IPv6 architecture consists only of routers and hosts (no middleboxes). > Ensuring that routers would not need to process further into the packet than the IPv6 header, and ensure that extension header chains were expensive to parse in hardware. As well as requiring all implementations to support IPsec. Some folks have provided anecdotal evidence that rather than the goal being "make them hard to process in hardware", the thing is that software processing was common at the time. (i.e., change in paradigm, if you want) [...] > Now, contrast that with the "real world", I challenge you to find a service on the Internet where the packet isn't mangled in some way between the two end-points. Be that IPv4 or IPv6. All these documents are about mangling, as opposed to processing. e.g. a firewall does process packets, but does not heavy surgery as in SRv6. > The problems with header insertion on the open Internet are well understood. Unless you are doing SRv6 in an isolated network (some community network?)m then you are doing EH insertion in the open Internet. The argument behind folks pushing EH-insertion is "I have my network (part of the Internet) and can do SR in a way that I can clean up before the packets leave the network". But that's still the Internet. And the issues in draft-smith-6man-in-flight-eh-insertion-harmful still apply. > That's not what is being discussed here though. > What is discussed here is what is acceptable to do within a limited domain. > To packets that _you_ own, i.e. originate and terminate within a domain where you control all devices. > > If I own and manage three routers, R1 -- R2 -- R3. IPv{4,6} as internet protocols. We don't have variants of them. Besides, H1 --- R1 ---R2 --- R2 ----- Other networks --- H2 is still the internet. The fact that you operate part of it means just that. > You are saying that if R1 sends a packet to R3, it is not allowed to off-load some functions to R2? > Going to be difficult to do stuff like service chaining then. > > When putting in the restrictions in RFC8200, which makes a lot of sense on the open Internet, it was always clear that there could and would be exceptions to this. Those are the ones we are discussing now. That is obviously not true. Even when RFC8200 does not have RFC2119, it does have wording that uses "must" in the area of not mangling with EHs. In fact, I should remind you that rfc2460bis wouldn't go past its first IETF LC without making this change and making the topic crystal clear. Thanks, -- Fernando Gont SI6 Networks e-mail: fgont@si6networks.com PGP Fingerprint: 6666 31C6 D484 63B2 8FB1 E3C4 AE25 0D55 1D4E 7492 From nobody Fri Dec 6 09:06:27 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7AD712010E; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 09:06:20 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pnEeA3ujFhsT; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 09:06:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from clarinet.employees.org (clarinet.employees.org [198.137.202.74]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 27C111200A3; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 09:06:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from astfgl.hanazo.no (246.51-175-81.customer.lyse.net [51.175.81.246]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by clarinet.employees.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 85BC34E11B2F; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 17:06:12 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by astfgl.hanazo.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3B262526BF5; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 18:06:10 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.0 \(3601.0.10\)) From: otroan@employees.org In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 18:06:10 +0100 Cc: Bob Hinden , Ron Bonica , SPRING WG , 6man <6man@ietf.org>, "int-ads@ietf.org" , rtg-ads , Fernando Gont Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <06B50938-0FC6-4901-9531-CC0385185F13@employees.org> References: <52132FA9-669E-4B32-BDC8-6F06C98315F3@gmail.com> To: Tom Herbert X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3601.0.10) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 17:06:21 -0000 Tom, > The advice from the chairs seems to be continue discussion. The > problem with that is that EH insertion has been discussed ad nauseum > over the past two years since the draft first appeared. It seems like > we are at the point where the same arguments on the topic are just > being rehashed on the list. As you mention above, the current > consensus is that the EH insertion conflicts with RFC8200. Right now > it seems like further discussion is open ended and without any > constraints a likely outcome will be attrition and eventual > acquiescence to accepting yet another non-conformant protocol that > became so widely deployed so that it can be fixed. >=20 > In light of this, can the chairs or AD provide some guidance or > expectations on framing any further discussion on the topic to ensure > that it's productive and the process is moving forward. You should absolutely continue the discussion. Let me share a secret with you. Please don't share. The 6man working group has been tasked by the IETF leadership to ensure engaging discussions all year around. I have not been told the hidden establishment agenda behind this, but I can only presume that it is to keep the IPv6 enthusiasts away from affecting the real work being done in other areas of the IETF. The leadership has tasked us with circulating the discussions between = the following topics: - 64 bit boundary - M/O bits - ULA or not ULA - Extension headers - Defining new mechanisms for IID formats There is a scheduled switch to the M/O bits topic in mid January. Please continue to the good work on EH in the meantime. Ole From nobody Fri Dec 6 09:17:18 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86097120059; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 09:17:12 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id q5zmJxCYe-xc; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 09:17:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from fgont.go6lab.si (fgont.go6lab.si [91.239.96.14]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 14E44120071; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 09:17:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.4.77] (unknown [190.179.35.56]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by fgont.go6lab.si (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 35D138541C; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 18:17:04 +0100 (CET) To: Bob Hinden , Tom Herbert Cc: Ron Bonica , SPRING WG , 6man <6man@ietf.org>, "int-ads@ietf.org" , rtg-ads References: <52132FA9-669E-4B32-BDC8-6F06C98315F3@gmail.com> From: Fernando Gont Autocrypt: addr=fgont@si6networks.com; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBE5so2gBEACzBQBLUy8nzgAzSZn6ViXT6TmZBFNYNqTpPRvTVtUqF6+tkI+IEd9N2E8p pXUXCd0W4dkxz6o7pagnK63m4QSueggvp881RVVHOF8oTSHOdnGxLfLeLNJFKE1FOutU3vod GK/wG/Fwzkv9MebdXpMlLV8nnJuAt66XGl/lU1JrNfrKO4SoYQi4TsB/waUQcygh7OR/PEO0 EttiU8kZUbZNv58WH+PAj/rdZCrgUSiGXiWUQQKShqKnJxLuAcTcg5YRwL8se/V6ciW0QR9i /sr52gSmLLbW5N3hAoO+nv1V/9SjJAUvzXu43k8sua/XlCXkqU7uLj41CRR72JeUZ4DQsYfP LfNPC98ZGTVxbWbFtLXxpzzDDT8i3uo7w1LJ2Ij/d5ezcARqw01HGljWWxnidUrjbTpxkJ9X EllcsH94mer728j/HKzC9OcTuz6WUBP3Crgl6Q47gY5ZIiF0lsmd9/wxbaq5NiJ+lGuBRZrD v0dQx9KmyI0/pH2AF8cW897/6ypvcyD/1/11CJcN+uAGIrklwJlVpRSbKbFtGC6In592lhu7 wnK8cgyP5cTU+vva9+g6P1wehi4bylXdlKc6mMphbtSA+T3WBNP557+mh3L62l4pGaEGidcZ DLYT2Ud18eAJmxU3HnM8P3iZZgeoK7oqgb53/eg96vkONXNIOwARAQABtCVGZXJuYW5kbyBH b250IDxmZ29udEBzaTZuZXR3b3Jrcy5jb20+iQJBBBMBAgArAhsjBQkSzAMABgsJCAcDAgYV CAIJCgsEFgIDAQIeAQIXgAUCTmylpQIZAQAKCRCuJQ1VHU50kv7wD/9fuNtTfxSLk3B3Hs3p ixTy8YXVjdkVwWlnJjFd7BOWmg7sI+LDhpjGfT6+ddOiwkumnvUZpObodj4ysH0i8c7P4C5t F9yu7WjklSlrB5Rth2CGChg5bKt541z2WHkFFxys9qBLmCSYDeKQkzLqhCjIUJizY2kOJ2GI MnSFDzJjhSFEh//oW830Y8fel1xnf/NVF+lBVtRMtMOfoWUqDjvP3sJ1G4zgkDCnF0CfncLx +hq2Mv26Uq9OTzvLH9aSQQ/f067BOkKAJKsfHdborX4E96ISTz57/4xECRSMr5dVsKVm4Y// uVIsb+L5z+a32FaiBZIAKDgnJO7Z8j6CV5e5yfuBTtX52Yi9HjYYqnYJGSDxYd6igD4bWu+7 xmJPHjkdqZgGV6dQIgiUfqkU+s5Cv350vK48CMaT/ZLo2BdsMhWsmaHmb+waePUMyq6E4E9x 9Js+EJb9ZiCfxS9exgieZQpet1L36IvhiwByvkQM009ywfa30JeMOltUtfLi5V06WQWsTzPL 5C+4cpkguSuAJVDTctjCA0moIeVDOpJ8WH9voQ4IeWapQnX35OIoj1jGJqqYdx65gc1ygbyx b8vw+pJ9E5GLse5TQnYifOWpXzX9053dtbwp/2OVhU4KLlzfCPCEsoTyfu9nIZxdI2PMwiL5 M85BfjX4NmwBLmPGoLkCDQRObKNoARAAqqXCkr250BchRDmi+05F5UQFgylUh10XTAJxBeaQ UNtdxZiZRm6jgomSrqeYtricM9t9K0qb4X2ZXmAMW8o8AYW3RrQHTjcBwMnAKzUIEXXWaLfG cid/ygmvWzIHgMDQKP+MUq1AGQrnvt/MRLvZLyczAV1RTXS58qNaxtaSpc3K/yrDozh/a4pu WcUsVvIkzyx43sqcwamDSBb6U8JFoZizuLXiARLLASgyHrrCedNIZdWSx0z0iHEpZIelA2ih AGLiSMtmtikVEyrJICgO81DkKNCbBbPg+7fi23V6M24+3syHk3IdQibTtBMxinIPyLFF0byJ aGm0fmjefhnmVJyCIl/FDkCHprVhTme57G2/WdoGnUvnT7mcwDRb8XY5nNRkOJsqqLPemKjz kx8mXdQbunXtX9bKyVgd1gIl+LLsxbdzRCch773UBVoortPdK3kMyLtZ4uMeDX3comjx+6VL bztUdJ1Zc9/njwVG8fgmQ+0Kj5+bzQfUY+MmX0HTXIx3B4R1I1a8QoOwi1N+iZNdewV5Zfq+ 29NlQLnVPjCRCKbaz9k6RJ2oIti55YUI6zSsL3lmlOXsRbXN5bRswFczkNSCJxJMlDiyAUIC WOay7ymzvgzPa+BY/mYn94vRaurDQ4/ljOfj6oqgfjts+dJev4Jj89vp8MQI3KJpZPEAEQEA AYkCJQQYAQIADwUCTmyjaAIbDAUJEswDAAAKCRCuJQ1VHU50km4xEACho45PZrUjY4Zl2opR DFNo5a6roTOPpgwO9PcBb3I5F8yX2Dnew+9OhgWXbBhAFq4DCx+9Gjs43Bn60qbZTDbLGJ/m 8N4PwEiq0e5MKceYcbetEdEUWhm5L6psU9ZZ82GR3UGxPXYe+oifEoJjOXQ39avf9S8p3yKP Diil0E79rn7LbJjMcgMLyjFg9SDoJ6pHLtniJoDhEAaSSgeV7Y745+gyMIdtQmrFHfqrFdjq D6G0HE+Z68ywc5KN67YxhvhBmSycs1ZSKAXv1zLDlXdmjHDHkU3xMcB+RkuiTba8yRFYwb/n j62CC4NhFTuIKOc4ta3dJsyXTGh/hO9UjWUnmAGfd0fnzTBZF8Qlnw/8ftx5lt4/O+eqY1EN RITScnPzXE/wMOlTtdkddQ+QN6xt6jyR2XtAIi7aAFHypIqA3lLI9hF9x+lj4UQ2yA9LqpoX 6URpPOd13JhAyDe47cwsP1u9Y+OBvQTVLSvw7Liu2b4KjqL4lx++VdBi7dXsjJ6kjIRjI6Lb WVpxe8LumMCuVDepTafBZ49gr7Fgc4F9ZSCo6ChgQNLn6WDzIkqFX+42KuHz90AHWhuW+KZR 1aJylERWeTcMCGUSBptd48KniWmD6kPKpzwoMkJtEXTuO2lVuborxzwuqOTNuYg9lWDl7zKt wPI9brGzquUHy4qRrA== Message-ID: Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 14:16:42 -0300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 17:17:12 -0000 Bob, [....] >> Bob, >> >> The advice from the chairs seems to be continue discussion. The >> problem with that is that EH insertion has been discussed ad nauseum >> over the past two years since the draft first appeared. It seems like >> we are at the point where the same arguments on the topic are just >> being rehashed on the list. As you mention above, the current >> consensus is that the EH insertion conflicts with RFC8200. Right now >> it seems like further discussion is open ended and without any >> constraints a likely outcome will be attrition and eventual >> acquiescence to accepting yet another non-conformant protocol that >> became so widely deployed so that it can be fixed. > > I think the difference in what is happening now, is that we have two drafts that are being discussed instead of just volumes of email. This is the process that should allow us to see if there is a consensus beyond what is in RFC8200. I won’t speculate what the outcome of this will be. There is a side "question" on the table: the spring/5man document currently being wglc'ed violates RFC8200. Are we all in agreement that until the point there's consensus to update RFC8200 to allow EH-insertion, our specs should be complied with, and the relevant text should be removed from the spring document? > > IETF standards are voluntary, and are designed to create interoperability between different implementations. Since we don’t have IETF Protocol Police we can’t do anything about other approaches. But we do produce standards and have a say on what we publish. >> In light of this, can the chairs or AD provide some guidance or >> expectations on framing any further discussion on the topic to ensure >> that it's productive and the process is moving forward. > > My take is that the discussion of the two drafts in 6man should continue. Any work that wants to rely an outcome of that discussion, should wait. As I said earlier, it’s hard to say when that will be done. Otherwise, I think the other work should be compatible with what is in RFC8200. Agreed. And this answers the question I posed above. Thanks! Cheers, -- Fernando Gont SI6 Networks e-mail: fgont@si6networks.com PGP Fingerprint: 6666 31C6 D484 63B2 8FB1 E3C4 AE25 0D55 1D4E 7492 From nobody Fri Dec 6 09:38:58 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0969B120086 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 09:38:57 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=herbertland-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7ED0ckqleGlB for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 09:38:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ed1-x533.google.com (mail-ed1-x533.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::533]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 265BE120059 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 09:38:55 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ed1-x533.google.com with SMTP id v28so6447092edw.12 for ; Fri, 06 Dec 2019 09:38:55 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=herbertland-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=Ds+A3XQS5excCEciikXG0/6MyCXzxziyRadYHFAgsWE=; b=XBAIbcVKdjEDc4qOteyRt1cOxfBkWf/BL5PywO0GUitWhslA0osaXoFSHdTvUL+HEq pkDeqXNs0VL+ga0iNb1sZrmqGsWwkH48jUaeSbZSJd0NyvxJQfh+Y+beWKEgj8eria4b 4+BDQ2gc1Hc1bFA/52EU+8Q8gsmG9+kyBMxX5u/xLko0S3haxpITSoOfE1HJQuynQSNX MAn25Vd3mqlSy2l2rW2UX/vu353yRmTGXXrYjYUNAiFLG3pwRKBg8ViQLwJTiI+hC9XE Bjk3Uglz6YyIzGryLr8hHLeoORLDFYXDyvGzX7K8aSg+uog4HWhjxya45dmXo+WYLRle Y3yQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=Ds+A3XQS5excCEciikXG0/6MyCXzxziyRadYHFAgsWE=; b=DK6gqbFOXuAsUbjGOdmNNzt9/xjSunbtqccgWP8848MfUS0mWzQLzPxHutYpuvedIm RAtDFvSKRK0J9GC7/CciAyO9LaeDkpgAwq3y/aRIVod6sBpabjBL1N8/QZwSOXS739sQ kcpVcZkK/VoskWIxRwwBJaWF8SPl/ohf4LHjVZJZCf4AOkUFrnkn0WP836kZsi00Xjpq 5Ewf2O5B9LAJMzvbsv0oiUD3W4DCvJ+nku5CojCHqFB/lhG0NmWqWlEYUgtAE+lFQQAU V2oTXLlmMvo/wnQDGSvb2J4n/ZnvpjDGU4QQo/n9Zl71GtkKqhit/26RYzNUKIQOsVV+ Jzpw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVQaxGF4sEmCnmTlblkStPey98yaVXoUzQKUbbZIoLEbHS6yh+x e9UZCUdup+uKi7FcXtqET07Rcvw0XGpLDzF+UbbUGw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwiq0QyI4tZxSXctUQkeW1Dx6Dof6TWImx4TJ/+puAgm+36YdvHfF8eVigIMG2QyzXynZKQzx/yPcEsrcI1kWA= X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:a444:: with SMTP id cb4mr16854080ejb.42.1575653933549; Fri, 06 Dec 2019 09:38:53 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <52132FA9-669E-4B32-BDC8-6F06C98315F3@gmail.com> <06B50938-0FC6-4901-9531-CC0385185F13@employees.org> In-Reply-To: <06B50938-0FC6-4901-9531-CC0385185F13@employees.org> From: Tom Herbert Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 09:38:42 -0800 Message-ID: To: Ole Troan Cc: Bob Hinden , Ron Bonica , SPRING WG , 6man <6man@ietf.org>, "int-ads@ietf.org" , rtg-ads , Fernando Gont Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 17:38:57 -0000 On Fri, Dec 6, 2019 at 9:06 AM wrote: > > Tom, > > > The advice from the chairs seems to be continue discussion. The > > problem with that is that EH insertion has been discussed ad nauseum > > over the past two years since the draft first appeared. It seems like > > we are at the point where the same arguments on the topic are just > > being rehashed on the list. As you mention above, the current > > consensus is that the EH insertion conflicts with RFC8200. Right now > > it seems like further discussion is open ended and without any > > constraints a likely outcome will be attrition and eventual > > acquiescence to accepting yet another non-conformant protocol that > > became so widely deployed so that it can be fixed. > > > > In light of this, can the chairs or AD provide some guidance or > > expectations on framing any further discussion on the topic to ensure > > that it's productive and the process is moving forward. > > You should absolutely continue the discussion. > Let me share a secret with you. Please don't share. > The 6man working group has been tasked by the IETF leadership to > ensure engaging discussions all year around. > I have not been told the hidden establishment agenda behind this, > but I can only presume that it is to keep the IPv6 enthusiasts > away from affecting the real work being done in other areas of the IETF. > > The leadership has tasked us with circulating the discussions between the following topics: > - 64 bit boundary > - M/O bits > - ULA or not ULA > - Extension headers > - Defining new mechanisms for IID formats > > There is a scheduled switch to the M/O bits topic in mid January. > Please continue to the good work on EH in the meantime. > Ole, Bear in mind that quality discussion is real work by those participating. It is a lot of effort to carefully read drafts, give clear feedback, and respond to rebuttals. I would like to think that the work individuals put in is justified by the outcome, and I assume it the chairs prerogative to steer the discussion as necessary to drive towards a discernible outcome in a finite amount of time. Tom > Ole > From nobody Fri Dec 6 10:51:19 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1347120086; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 10:51:13 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id a0erS-p-0Ldl; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 10:51:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from fgont.go6lab.si (fgont.go6lab.si [91.239.96.14]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E260912006D; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 10:51:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.4.77] (unknown [190.179.35.56]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by fgont.go6lab.si (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 959468663A; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 19:51:06 +0100 (CET) To: Andrew Alston , "li_zhenqiang@hotmail.com" , "bruno.decraene@orange.com" , "spring@ietf.org" Cc: "6man@ietf.org" <6man@ietf.org>, draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming References: <17421_1575566127_5DE93B2F_17421_93_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D1A3DA@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> From: Fernando Gont Autocrypt: addr=fernando@gont.com.ar; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBE5so2gBEACzBQBLUy8nzgAzSZn6ViXT6TmZBFNYNqTpPRvTVtUqF6+tkI+IEd9N2E8p pXUXCd0W4dkxz6o7pagnK63m4QSueggvp881RVVHOF8oTSHOdnGxLfLeLNJFKE1FOutU3vod GK/wG/Fwzkv9MebdXpMlLV8nnJuAt66XGl/lU1JrNfrKO4SoYQi4TsB/waUQcygh7OR/PEO0 EttiU8kZUbZNv58WH+PAj/rdZCrgUSiGXiWUQQKShqKnJxLuAcTcg5YRwL8se/V6ciW0QR9i /sr52gSmLLbW5N3hAoO+nv1V/9SjJAUvzXu43k8sua/XlCXkqU7uLj41CRR72JeUZ4DQsYfP LfNPC98ZGTVxbWbFtLXxpzzDDT8i3uo7w1LJ2Ij/d5ezcARqw01HGljWWxnidUrjbTpxkJ9X EllcsH94mer728j/HKzC9OcTuz6WUBP3Crgl6Q47gY5ZIiF0lsmd9/wxbaq5NiJ+lGuBRZrD v0dQx9KmyI0/pH2AF8cW897/6ypvcyD/1/11CJcN+uAGIrklwJlVpRSbKbFtGC6In592lhu7 wnK8cgyP5cTU+vva9+g6P1wehi4bylXdlKc6mMphbtSA+T3WBNP557+mh3L62l4pGaEGidcZ DLYT2Ud18eAJmxU3HnM8P3iZZgeoK7oqgb53/eg96vkONXNIOwARAQABtCVGZXJuYW5kbyBH b250IDxmZ29udEBzaTZuZXR3b3Jrcy5jb20+iQJBBBMBAgArAhsjBQkSzAMABgsJCAcDAgYV CAIJCgsEFgIDAQIeAQIXgAUCTmylpQIZAQAKCRCuJQ1VHU50kv7wD/9fuNtTfxSLk3B3Hs3p ixTy8YXVjdkVwWlnJjFd7BOWmg7sI+LDhpjGfT6+ddOiwkumnvUZpObodj4ysH0i8c7P4C5t F9yu7WjklSlrB5Rth2CGChg5bKt541z2WHkFFxys9qBLmCSYDeKQkzLqhCjIUJizY2kOJ2GI MnSFDzJjhSFEh//oW830Y8fel1xnf/NVF+lBVtRMtMOfoWUqDjvP3sJ1G4zgkDCnF0CfncLx +hq2Mv26Uq9OTzvLH9aSQQ/f067BOkKAJKsfHdborX4E96ISTz57/4xECRSMr5dVsKVm4Y// uVIsb+L5z+a32FaiBZIAKDgnJO7Z8j6CV5e5yfuBTtX52Yi9HjYYqnYJGSDxYd6igD4bWu+7 xmJPHjkdqZgGV6dQIgiUfqkU+s5Cv350vK48CMaT/ZLo2BdsMhWsmaHmb+waePUMyq6E4E9x 9Js+EJb9ZiCfxS9exgieZQpet1L36IvhiwByvkQM009ywfa30JeMOltUtfLi5V06WQWsTzPL 5C+4cpkguSuAJVDTctjCA0moIeVDOpJ8WH9voQ4IeWapQnX35OIoj1jGJqqYdx65gc1ygbyx b8vw+pJ9E5GLse5TQnYifOWpXzX9053dtbwp/2OVhU4KLlzfCPCEsoTyfu9nIZxdI2PMwiL5 M85BfjX4NmwBLmPGoLkCDQRObKNoARAAqqXCkr250BchRDmi+05F5UQFgylUh10XTAJxBeaQ UNtdxZiZRm6jgomSrqeYtricM9t9K0qb4X2ZXmAMW8o8AYW3RrQHTjcBwMnAKzUIEXXWaLfG cid/ygmvWzIHgMDQKP+MUq1AGQrnvt/MRLvZLyczAV1RTXS58qNaxtaSpc3K/yrDozh/a4pu WcUsVvIkzyx43sqcwamDSBb6U8JFoZizuLXiARLLASgyHrrCedNIZdWSx0z0iHEpZIelA2ih AGLiSMtmtikVEyrJICgO81DkKNCbBbPg+7fi23V6M24+3syHk3IdQibTtBMxinIPyLFF0byJ aGm0fmjefhnmVJyCIl/FDkCHprVhTme57G2/WdoGnUvnT7mcwDRb8XY5nNRkOJsqqLPemKjz kx8mXdQbunXtX9bKyVgd1gIl+LLsxbdzRCch773UBVoortPdK3kMyLtZ4uMeDX3comjx+6VL bztUdJ1Zc9/njwVG8fgmQ+0Kj5+bzQfUY+MmX0HTXIx3B4R1I1a8QoOwi1N+iZNdewV5Zfq+ 29NlQLnVPjCRCKbaz9k6RJ2oIti55YUI6zSsL3lmlOXsRbXN5bRswFczkNSCJxJMlDiyAUIC WOay7ymzvgzPa+BY/mYn94vRaurDQ4/ljOfj6oqgfjts+dJev4Jj89vp8MQI3KJpZPEAEQEA AYkCJQQYAQIADwUCTmyjaAIbDAUJEswDAAAKCRCuJQ1VHU50km4xEACho45PZrUjY4Zl2opR DFNo5a6roTOPpgwO9PcBb3I5F8yX2Dnew+9OhgWXbBhAFq4DCx+9Gjs43Bn60qbZTDbLGJ/m 8N4PwEiq0e5MKceYcbetEdEUWhm5L6psU9ZZ82GR3UGxPXYe+oifEoJjOXQ39avf9S8p3yKP Diil0E79rn7LbJjMcgMLyjFg9SDoJ6pHLtniJoDhEAaSSgeV7Y745+gyMIdtQmrFHfqrFdjq D6G0HE+Z68ywc5KN67YxhvhBmSycs1ZSKAXv1zLDlXdmjHDHkU3xMcB+RkuiTba8yRFYwb/n j62CC4NhFTuIKOc4ta3dJsyXTGh/hO9UjWUnmAGfd0fnzTBZF8Qlnw/8ftx5lt4/O+eqY1EN RITScnPzXE/wMOlTtdkddQ+QN6xt6jyR2XtAIi7aAFHypIqA3lLI9hF9x+lj4UQ2yA9LqpoX 6URpPOd13JhAyDe47cwsP1u9Y+OBvQTVLSvw7Liu2b4KjqL4lx++VdBi7dXsjJ6kjIRjI6Lb WVpxe8LumMCuVDepTafBZ49gr7Fgc4F9ZSCo6ChgQNLn6WDzIkqFX+42KuHz90AHWhuW+KZR 1aJylERWeTcMCGUSBptd48KniWmD6kPKpzwoMkJtEXTuO2lVuborxzwuqOTNuYg9lWDl7zKt wPI9brGzquUHy4qRrA== Message-ID: Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 15:50:50 -0300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 18:51:13 -0000 On 6/12/19 05:15, Andrew Alston wrote: > In addition to the below, > >   > > In Section 2: > >   > > In this version of the document, we assume that there are no other > >    extension headers than the SRH.  These will be lifted in future > >    versions of the document. Can the authors clarify what this means? That this mean "this will not work as expected if there are other EHs"? If not, why the statement? If yes, what happens if you do receive packets with other EHs (say, FH, IPsec, or others)? Thanks, -- Fernando Gont e-mail: fernando@gont.com.ar || fgont@si6networks.com PGP Fingerprint: 7809 84F5 322E 45C7 F1C9 3945 96EE A9EF D076 FFF1 From nobody Fri Dec 6 11:14:10 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F07112004A; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 11:14:08 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OFqBU7Y62E5N; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 11:14:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from clarinet.employees.org (clarinet.employees.org [198.137.202.74]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 465E8120059; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 11:14:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from astfgl.hanazo.no (unknown [IPv6:2a01:79c:cebd:47d8:c8b:f971:52ca:e1ba]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by clarinet.employees.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 817614E11B3C; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 19:14:06 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by astfgl.hanazo.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id D07A32528C30; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 20:13:57 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.0 \(3601.0.10\)) From: otroan@employees.org In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 20:13:57 +0100 Cc: Bob Hinden , Ron Bonica , SPRING WG , 6man <6man@ietf.org>, "int-ads@ietf.org" , rtg-ads , Fernando Gont Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <1CEE1555-3D12-4998-9C69-23757649E908@employees.org> References: <52132FA9-669E-4B32-BDC8-6F06C98315F3@gmail.com> <06B50938-0FC6-4901-9531-CC0385185F13@employees.org> To: Tom Herbert X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3601.0.10) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 19:14:08 -0000 Tom, > Bear in mind that quality discussion is real work by those > participating. It is a lot of effort to carefully read drafts, give > clear feedback, and respond to rebuttals. I would like to think that > the work individuals put in is justified by the outcome, and I assume > it the chairs prerogative to steer the discussion as necessary to > drive towards a discernible outcome in a finite amount of time. Absolutely. Unfortunately the IETF process is open to attacks. It appears that something akin to a proxy war is being fought. Some things has to be in place for a consensus based process to work, which looks to be missing here. While the chairs have some tools to their disposition; for this to work it requires the actors and the whole community to respect and self-police that process. How frustrating it may be for the spectators, letting it play out may be the best option we got. Best regards, Ole From nobody Fri Dec 6 11:16:28 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7CD112006D for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 11:16:26 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.499 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.499 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com header.b=bV+hZR6h; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.onmicrosoft.com header.b=Tgp5NXHx Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id R093OgHlVTmn for ; Fri, 6 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TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C143712004A; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 11:42:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from astfgl.hanazo.no (unknown [IPv6:2a01:79c:cebd:47d8:c8b:f971:52ca:e1ba]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by clarinet.employees.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 720B74E11B75; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 19:42:06 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by astfgl.hanazo.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBC932529C73; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 20:42:03 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.0 \(3601.0.10\)) From: otroan@employees.org In-Reply-To: <22D9177B-033C-4657-96BA-FC6579918507@liquidtelecom.com> Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 20:42:03 +0100 Cc: Tom Herbert , Ron Bonica , SPRING WG , 6man <6man@ietf.org>, "int-ads@ietf.org" , Bob Hinden , rtg-ads , Fernando Gont Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <52132FA9-669E-4B32-BDC8-6F06C98315F3@gmail.com> <06B50938-0FC6-4901-9531-CC0385185F13@employees.org> <1CEE1555-3D12-4998-9C69-23757649E908@employees.org> <22D9177B-033C-4657-96BA-FC6579918507@liquidtelecom.com> To: Andrew Alston X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3601.0.10) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 19:42:08 -0000 > While I may agree with you that is an attack on process here =E2=80=93 = and you may even find consensus on that statement =E2=80=93 I am far = from convinced you would find consensus on the question of which group = is conducting the attack on process. =46rom https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ipv6/?qdr=3Dm&so=3Dfrm The last month's 10 top posters are: Fernando: 25 Ole: 17 (including this message :-)) Bob: 12 Brian: 11 Ron: 10 Tom: 9 Gyan: 8 Sander: 8 Andrew: 7 Enno: 6 Ole From nobody Fri Dec 6 11:48:26 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07E361200EB for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 11:48:24 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id H6t7UQopNo6Z for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 11:48:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from 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2019 19:48:13 +0000 From: Andrew Alston To: "otroan@employees.org" CC: Tom Herbert , Ron Bonica , SPRING WG , 6man <6man@ietf.org>, "int-ads@ietf.org" , Bob Hinden , rtg-ads , Fernando Gont Thread-Topic: [spring] We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping) Thread-Index: AQHVq7OSYLY5Uppp5kaqQ3smzVGO+aesEh6AgAAHo4CAAArdAIAAGcUAgAACwYCAAQOBgIAAEt0AgAAJFwCAABqdgIAANZuA///SP4CAADQCAA== Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 19:48:13 +0000 Message-ID: <9CDFE84F-75AC-4CD8-9986-2C1AB315053B@liquidtelecom.com> References: <52132FA9-669E-4B32-BDC8-6F06C98315F3@gmail.com> <06B50938-0FC6-4901-9531-CC0385185F13@employees.org> <1CEE1555-3D12-4998-9C69-23757649E908@employees.org> <22D9177B-033C-4657-96BA-FC6579918507@liquidtelecom.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-GB X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/10.1f.0.191110 x-originating-ip: [2c0f:fe40:3:3:a1b6:dc2b:61a9:8e7] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email 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d3NlL2lwdjYvP3Fkcj1tJnNvPWZybV9fOyE4V29BNlJqQzgxYyFTNkZLcnEyWGRuMl9UMmcwMTQw UVdZc2dfSkZvM1ZpdFRibjFKc2RuejdIdmg1bVJnTkRBVFNTbTNPSkJRODJrJCANCg0KVGhlIGxh c3QgbW9udGgncyAxMCB0b3AgcG9zdGVycyBhcmU6DQpGZXJuYW5kbzogMjUNCk9sZTogICAgICAx NyAoaW5jbHVkaW5nIHRoaXMgbWVzc2FnZSA6LSkpDQpCb2I6ICAgICAgMTINCkJyaWFuOiAgICAx MQ0KUm9uOiAgICAgIDEwDQpUb206ICAgICAgIDkNCkd5YW46ICAgICAgOA0KU2FuZGVyOiAgICA4 DQpBbmRyZXc6ICAgIDcNCkVubm86ICAgICAgNg0KDQpPbGUNCg0KDQoNCg== From nobody Fri Dec 6 11:54:54 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF8841200CD for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 11:54:52 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, 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X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXlwscF6vG7E7WxYGAqyXUFtzYxC/tV4bplEEYEx1C1WwhoqVn/ V6SJ4Ja/yARuk9Gn2W1ZPMAq395BGa1kZIKViup+DQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyk5Swa0muzO/Dy5iLjcXG+nNbZdhZ0x/A9TuruVfTZuukeyzTC8YYkyPnziZSzO5UCpb+VW8GFDm9CjWktpyA= X-Received: by 2002:a5d:8899:: with SMTP id d25mr12498312ioo.260.1575662089413; Fri, 06 Dec 2019 11:54:49 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <07280F00-A45B-45D3-8C75-5200A5512AAF@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <07280F00-A45B-45D3-8C75-5200A5512AAF@cisco.com> From: Tadas Planciunas Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 21:54:37 +0200 Message-ID: To: "Zafar Ali (zali)" Cc: spring@ietf.org, satoru.matsushima@g.softbank.co.jp, Jonas Simanavicius , "Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000203e7c05990e6b56" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] SPRING SRv6 Deployment Status draft X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 19:54:53 -0000 --000000000000203e7c05990e6b56 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thank you, you too! On Fri, Dec 6, 2019, 21:16 Zafar Ali (zali) wrote: > Hi Tadas, > > > > Many thanks for sharing the SRv6 deployment in a nationwide backbone > network! > > > > It will be our pleasure to include the text provided by you in the next > revision of the SRv6 deployment draft. > > We can publish it during the next week. > > > > Have a great weekend! > > > > Thanks > > > > Regards =E2=80=A6 Zafar > > > > *From: *Tadas Planciunas > *Date: *Friday, December 6, 2019 at 2:07 AM > *To: *"spring@ietf.org" , " > satoru.matsushima@g.softbank.co.jp" , > "Zafar Ali (zali)" > *Cc: *Jonas Simanavicius , "Pablo Camarillo > (pcamaril)" > *Subject: *[spring] SPRING SRv6 Deployment Status draft > > > > Hi Zefar, Satoru, > > > > In the next draft of > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-matsushima-spring-srv6-deployment-= status/, > we'd like to be added to the section =E2=80=9C2. Deployment Status=E2=80= =9D as we have > significant progress on our SRv6 deployment: > > *NOIA Network (https://noia.network )* > > NOIA Network is Internet Technology company creating a cutting-edge SRv6 > stack implementation and backbone for managing private and distributed me= sh > networks. > > Our software deployment consists of Orchestration, Analytics, Agent, > Controller, Business Intelligence (AI) and several product Interfaces to > access the network. > > Project whitepaper and tokenomics model can be found here: > https://noia.network/programmable-internet-whitepaper and > https://noia.network/tokenomics-whitepaper > > NOIA Network have deployed a nationwide SRv6 network backbone. The SRv6 > backbone is based on white box or cloud routers with FD.io VPP or Linux > srext module installed. > > The following SRv6 features have been deployed: > > - A Segment Routing Header [I-D.ietf-6man-segment-routing-header] > based data plane. > - END , END.X, END.DT4, End.DT6 functions as per > [I-D.filsfils-spring-srv6-network-programming]. > - iOAM Proof of Transit and Trace options as per > [I-D.ietf-ippm-ioam-data]. > - BFD for Multihop Paths as per [I-D.ietf-bfd-multihop]. > - Topology Independent (TI-LFA) Fast Reroute mechanisms leveraging > - SRv6 for the O(50msec) protection against node and link, as > described in [I-D.ietf-rtgwg-segment-routing-ti-lfa]. > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Pagarbiai / Regards > > IT Manager, Dev Lead @ NOIA Network > > +370 614 68669 > > https://noia.network/ > --000000000000203e7c05990e6b56 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thank you, you too!=C2=A0

On Fri, Dec 6, 2019, 21:16 Zafar= Ali (zali) <zali@cisco.com> wr= ote:

Hi Tada= s,

=C2=A0

Many thanks for sharing the SRv6 deployment in a nat= ionwide backbone network!

=C2=A0

It will be our pleasure to include the text provided= by you in the next revision of the SRv6 deployment draft.

We can publish it during the next week.

=C2=A0

Have a great weekend!

=C2=A0

Thanks

=C2=A0

Regards =E2=80=A6 Zafar

=C2=A0

From= : Tadas Planciunas = <tadas@noia.network>
Date: Friday, December 6, 2019 at 2:07 AM
To: "spring@ietf.org" <spring@ietf.org>, "<= a href=3D"mailto:satoru.matsushima@g.softbank.co.jp" target=3D"_blank" rel= =3D"noreferrer">satoru.matsushima@g.softbank.co.jp" <satoru.matsushima@g.softbank.co.jp>, "Zafar Ali (zali)&qu= ot; <zali@cisco.com>
Cc: Jonas Simanavicius <jonas@noia.network>, "Pablo Camar= illo (pcamaril)" <pcamaril@cisco.com>
Subject: [spring] SPRING SRv6 Deployment Status draft<= /span>

=C2=A0

Hi Zefar, Satoru,

=C2=A0

In the next draft of =C2=A0https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-matsu= shima-spring-srv6-deployment-status/, we'd like to be added to the section =E2=80=9C2.=C2=A0 Deployment Status=E2=80=9D as we have sig= nificant progress on our SRv6 deployment:

NOIA Network (https://noia.network)

NOIA Network is Internet Technology company creating a cutting-edge SRv6 st= ack implementation and backbone for managing private and distributed mesh n= etworks.

Our software deployment consists of Orchestration, Analytics, Agent, Contro= ller, Business Intelligence (AI) and several product Interfaces to access t= he network.

Project whitepaper and tokenomics model can be found here: https://noia.network/programmable-internet-whitepaper=C2=A0and https://noia.network/tokenomics-whitepaper

NOIA Network have deployed a nationwide SRv6 network backbone. The SRv6 bac= kbone is based on white box or cloud routers with FD.io VPP or Linux srext = module installed.

The following SRv6 features have been deployed:

  • A Segment Routing Header [I-D.ietf-6man-segment-routing-header] based data = plane.
  • END , END.X, END.DT4, End.DT6 functions as per [I-D.filsfils-spring-srv6-ne= twork-programming].
  • iOAM Proof of Transit and Trace options as per [I-D.ietf-ippm-ioam-data].
  • BFD for Multihop Paths as per [I-D.ietf-bfd-multihop].
    • Topology Independent (TI-LFA) Fast Reroute mechanisms leveraging<= /u>
  • SRv6 for the O(50msec) protection against node and link, as described in [I= -D.ietf-rtgwg-segment-routing-ti-lfa].


Thank you.

=C2=A0

--

Pagarbiai / Regards

IT Manager, Dev Lead @=C2=A0NOIA=C2=A0Netw= ork

+370 614 68669

https://noia.network/

--000000000000203e7c05990e6b56-- From nobody Fri Dec 6 12:16:46 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C7501200CD; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 12:16:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id E9jA9j-5EtVE; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 12:16:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from clarinet.employees.org (clarinet.employees.org [IPv6:2607:7c80:54:3::74]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 01FE112006D; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 12:16:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from astfgl.hanazo.no (unknown [IPv6:2a01:79c:cebd:47d8:c8b:f971:52ca:e1ba]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by clarinet.employees.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 491E54E11AF5; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 20:16:37 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by astfgl.hanazo.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69D78252AAE5; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 21:16:34 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.0 \(3601.0.10\)) From: otroan@employees.org In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 21:16:34 +0100 Cc: Andrew Alston , Tom Herbert , SPRING WG , 6man <6man@ietf.org>, "int-ads@ietf.org" , Bob Hinden , rtg-ads , Fernando Gont Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <21C2AB7C-7134-4CCA-B213-3844014A7DB4@employees.org> References: <52132FA9-669E-4B32-BDC8-6F06C98315F3@gmail.com> <06B50938-0FC6-4901-9531-CC0385185F13@employees.org> <1CEE1555-3D12-4998-9C69-23757649E908@employees.org> <22D9177B-033C-4657-96BA-FC6579918507@liquidtelecom.com> To: Ron Bonica X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3601.0.10) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 20:16:40 -0000 Hi Ron, > I am not quite sure how to take this email. Are you suggesting that we = should review less, post less, and let the rubber stamping begin? No, not at all. And if it was open for that interpretation I am sorry. But there are a should's all of us could improve on. - not repeat the same argument again and again - think twice before sending another email (yes, I know I have failed = terribly today) - contribute positively, and contribute to document text - try to find consensus with our opponents - ... > Since you have named me, personally, are you suggesting that my = contributions have been less than helpful. No, of course not. A list of top ten posters in the last 30 days does of = course not give any indication of quality of contribution. And the only thing that statistics says is that within the last 30 days = you are ranked 5th in the number of messages you have sent. (Not that I think we would want to or could measure such a thing.) 112 of 162 messages in the last 30 days are sent by the top ten posters. Most of them are on one side of the EH insertion argument. With regards to Andrew's comment, draw your own conclusion. Best regards, Ole PS: To take my own advice, believing that I have made my points too many = times already, I will try my best to avoid any further postings on this = subject. Have a nice weekend. >=20 > = Ron > = (fairly upset) >=20 >=20 > Juniper Business Use Only >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: otroan@employees.org =20 > Sent: Friday, December 6, 2019 2:42 PM > To: Andrew Alston > Cc: Tom Herbert ; Ron Bonica = ; SPRING WG ; 6man = <6man@ietf.org>; int-ads@ietf.org; Bob Hinden ; = rtg-ads ; Fernando Gont > Subject: Re: [spring] We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: = Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping) >=20 >=20 >> While I may agree with you that is an attack on process here =E2=80=93 = and you may even find consensus on that statement =E2=80=93 I am far = from convinced you would find consensus on the question of which group = is conducting the attack on process. >=20 > =46rom = https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ipv6/= ?qdr=3Dm&so=3Dfrm__;!8WoA6RjC81c!S6FKrq2Xdn2_T2g0140QWYsg_JFo3VitTbn1Jsdnz= 7Hvh5mRgNDATSSm3OJBQ82k$=20 >=20 > The last month's 10 top posters are: > Fernando: 25 > Ole: 17 (including this message :-)) > Bob: 12 > Brian: 11 > Ron: 10 > Tom: 9 > Gyan: 8 > Sander: 8 > Andrew: 7 > Enno: 6 >=20 > Ole >=20 >=20 >=20 From nobody Fri Dec 6 12:26:17 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C12C1200CD; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 12:26:17 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=juniper.net header.b=rqVLTOsj; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=juniper.net header.b=Gj+AoLAa Received: from mail.ietf.org 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X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: myRohHcJYwhieGHlOqUqHHLvUF8qzWaPbShiyKbBn2lPa5MjqYhyD/v0coqf6RMELoz00hwqY4xY2OB9XWiAXg== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN7PR05MB4035 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.95,18.0.572 definitions=2019-12-06_06:2019-12-05,2019-12-06 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_spam_notspam policy=outbound_spam score=0 clxscore=1015 adultscore=0 mlxscore=0 malwarescore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 priorityscore=1501 mlxlogscore=999 suspectscore=0 impostorscore=0 phishscore=0 spamscore=0 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-1910280000 definitions=main-1912060163 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 20:26:17 -0000 T2xlLA0KDQpJbiB0aGF0IGNhc2UsIHBlYWNlIQ0KDQogICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgUm9uDQoNCg0KDQpKdW5pcGVyIEJ1c2luZXNzIFVzZSBPbmx5DQoNCi0tLS0tT3JpZ2lu YWwgTWVzc2FnZS0tLS0tDQpGcm9tOiBvdHJvYW5AZW1wbG95ZWVzLm9yZyA8b3Ryb2FuQGVtcGxv eWVlcy5vcmc+IA0KU2VudDogRnJpZGF5LCBEZWNlbWJlciA2LCAyMDE5IDM6MTcgUE0NClRvOiBS b24gQm9uaWNhIDxyYm9uaWNhQGp1bmlwZXIubmV0Pg0KQ2M6IEFuZHJldyBBbHN0b24gPEFuZHJl dy5BbHN0b25AbGlxdWlkdGVsZWNvbS5jb20+OyBUb20gSGVyYmVydCA8dG9tQGhlcmJlcnRsYW5k LmNvbT47IFNQUklORyBXRyA8c3ByaW5nQGlldGYub3JnPjsgNm1hbiA8Nm1hbkBpZXRmLm9yZz47 IGludC1hZHNAaWV0Zi5vcmc7IEJvYiBIaW5kZW4gPGJvYi5oaW5kZW5AZ21haWwuY29tPjsgcnRn LWFkcyA8cnRnLWFkc0B0b29scy5pZXRmLm9yZz47IEZlcm5hbmRvIEdvbnQgPGZnb250QHNpNm5l dHdvcmtzLmNvbT4NClN1YmplY3Q6IFJlOiBbc3ByaW5nXSBXZSBkb24ndCBzZWVtIHRvIGJlIGZv bGxvd2luZyBvdXIgcHJvY2Vzc2VzIChSZTogTmV0d29yayBQcm9ncmFtbWluZyAtIFBlbnVsdGlt 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spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8BA612006B; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 13:09:26 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5IjEr6BmULtV; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 13:09:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from fgont.go6lab.si (fgont.go6lab.si [91.239.96.14]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4561A120074; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 13:09:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.4.77] (unknown [190.179.35.56]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by fgont.go6lab.si (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 21A17852B6; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 22:09:16 +0100 (CET) To: otroan@employees.org, Andrew Alston Cc: Ron Bonica , SPRING WG , 6man <6man@ietf.org>, "int-ads@ietf.org" , Bob Hinden , rtg-ads References: <52132FA9-669E-4B32-BDC8-6F06C98315F3@gmail.com> <06B50938-0FC6-4901-9531-CC0385185F13@employees.org> <1CEE1555-3D12-4998-9C69-23757649E908@employees.org> <22D9177B-033C-4657-96BA-FC6579918507@liquidtelecom.com> From: Fernando Gont Autocrypt: addr=fgont@si6networks.com; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBE5so2gBEACzBQBLUy8nzgAzSZn6ViXT6TmZBFNYNqTpPRvTVtUqF6+tkI+IEd9N2E8p pXUXCd0W4dkxz6o7pagnK63m4QSueggvp881RVVHOF8oTSHOdnGxLfLeLNJFKE1FOutU3vod GK/wG/Fwzkv9MebdXpMlLV8nnJuAt66XGl/lU1JrNfrKO4SoYQi4TsB/waUQcygh7OR/PEO0 EttiU8kZUbZNv58WH+PAj/rdZCrgUSiGXiWUQQKShqKnJxLuAcTcg5YRwL8se/V6ciW0QR9i 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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 21:09:27 -0000 On 6/12/19 16:42, otroan@employees.org wrote: > >> While I may agree with you that is an attack on process here – and you may even find consensus on that statement – I am far from convinced you would find consensus on the question of which group is conducting the attack on process. > > From https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ipv6/?qdr=m&so=frm > > The last month's 10 top posters are: > Fernando: 25 > Ole: 17 (including this message :-)) [....] I don't think there is much room for interpretation here, but anyway I should ask: are you suggesting that I have attacked or been attacking the process? -- that's quite a statement from a wg chair to a wg participant. And if not, I wonder what you are trying to illustrate with the posted stats. While one may or may not like loud folks, I'm not sure there's much process specified in that respect. We do have, however, a process that involves things like "doing a wg call for adoption in order for a wg to work on a document", or even "make decisions on the mailing list". What triggered the subject of this thread was, indeed, the fact that you were implying that 6man had made a decision to work on EH insertion, without a call for adoption of the relevant document, and without the list given the chance to have an opinion. Similarly, we have IETF consensus on what's in RFC8200. You may like it or not. It may be good or not. But that's the consensus that we have. But then you start with your rationale about limited domains (for which there's no consensus) as an argument for folks being able to violate our *That* is what I would deem as an attack of the process. The above, that is, not having the wg make the decisions, and finding ways to violate existing spec without following the due process, is what would seem to me as an attack to the process. As someone that is very involved in 6man, that tries to follow the process as closely as possible, of course I've been loud on the topic. The above has a lot to do with the fairness environment in which we are operating, and remaining silent about it would be part of the problem. You are a 6man wg chair. What I have been trying hard to is for the decisions to be taken by the wg in a fair way (e.g. when it comes to a decision to work on a document), and for the existing specs to be respected and complied with unless there's formal consensus not to change the specs. Is being loud about that "attacking the process"? Or is that actually that should simply happen without any participant asking, anyway? Other than the theories of "proxy wars" do you've mentioned... have you considered that there might be a conflict of interests going on, here? e.g. between the working group consensus and a vendor's agenda? As chair, it is the wg that you serve. We have been a long way when it comes to SRv6. It can be summarized to include things like: * When it comes to EH-insertion, rather than come up with a proposal to say "hey, we want to change the standard, and this is the reason why", there have been all sorts of manipulations of different kinds. * The first one being the claim that there was ambiguity in RFC2460 related to EH-insertion. Which, of course, everyone knew wasn't true. * But, given the discussion, a number of us suggested that it should be made even more crystal clear. Even after the insistence of many of us, 6man managed to ship rfc2460bis with such "ambiguity" in, simply because a large number of folks (from the same vendor with a strong interest in doing EH insertion), popped up on the list to move things forward "as is". I did note this to Suresh at the time.... but the document shipped, anyway. * An heterogeneous group of folks (Jinmei, Enno, myself, Mark, and others) weighed in during IETF LC. And then finally the corresponding "clarification" (which I think was clear to everyone, anyway) was added to what would eventually become RFC8200. * During IESG review, it was somehow suggested by a folk (from the same vendor as in other cases of the previous bullets) that before proceeding with the publication of this document, we should essentially wait for a proposal for EH-insertion to be worked out. Fortunately, RFC8200 was approved and published, anyway. * spring seems to have continued operating as if EH-insertion was allowed. -- what looks to me a bit like "cook things up far from 6man", which is of course unacceptable, since it is 6man that's in charge of IPv6 standardization. * When this was raised on 6man, and pointed out, then we now heard (after the said failure of "ambiguity in rfc2460" try), that it's okay for them to violate RFC8200 and do EH-insertion, because they are operating in a "limited domain" (when the IETF has consensus even about what a "limited domain" is). * Then you noted that 6man had decided to work on EHs at Singapore. And when I polled you about that (how come?), you essentially asked me to go look at the videos and minutes. But it turns out that there was no call for adoption of any eh-insertion document (either in favour or against), and obviously the list wasn't polled about it, either. As noted, I have simply been trying hard for the decisions to be taken by the wg (as opposed to "magical consensus"), and for the existing specs to be respected and complied with unless there's formal consensus not to do so. Is being loud about that "attacking the process"? Or is that actually that should simply happen without any wg participant asking, anyway? Thanks, -- Fernando Gont SI6 Networks e-mail: fgont@si6networks.com PGP Fingerprint: 6666 31C6 D484 63B2 8FB1 E3C4 AE25 0D55 1D4E 7492 From nobody Fri Dec 6 13:14:09 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A60C12006B; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 13:14:03 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.399 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.399 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTTPS_HTTP_MISMATCH=0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com header.b=h41c/9M4; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.onmicrosoft.com header.b=JJpJktb0 Received: from 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Dec 2019 21:13:56 +0000 From: "Darren Dukes (ddukes)" To: Ron Bonica CC: SPRING WG , 6man <6man@ietf.org> Thread-Topic: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping Thread-Index: AdWqwAHVKZEn9oMNQKewBt9OvTlYXgAzAekAAAP9pMAAN4RDgA== Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 21:13:56 +0000 Message-ID: References: <3AD3BD11-8C34-41FE-B88F-49A9F2561D78@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=ddukes@cisco.com; x-originating-ip: [161.44.213.3] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 24cb7762-227c-4ce8-94ea-08d77a913457 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: BN7SPR01MB0016: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:8882; x-forefront-prvs: 0243E5FD68 x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; 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X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dzTJVvS0-L9y; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 13:53:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from rfc-editor.org (rfc-editor.org [4.31.198.49]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2058F120090; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 13:53:21 -0800 (PST) Received: by rfc-editor.org (Postfix, from userid 30) id 0A405F406F6; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 13:53:16 -0800 (PST) To: ietf-announce@ietf.org, rfc-dist@rfc-editor.org X-PHP-Originating-Script: 1005:ams_util_lib.php From: rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org Cc: rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org, drafts-update-ref@iana.org, spring@ietf.org Content-type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Message-Id: <20191206215316.0A405F406F6@rfc-editor.org> Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 13:53:16 -0800 (PST) Archived-At: Subject: [spring] =?utf-8?q?RFC_8660_on_Segment_Routing_with_the_MPLS_Dat?= =?utf-8?q?a_Plane?= X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 21:53:23 -0000 A new Request for Comments is now available in online RFC libraries. RFC 8660 Title: Segment Routing with the MPLS Data Plane Author: A. Bashandy, Ed., C. Filsfils, Ed., S. Previdi, B. Decraene, S. Litkowski, R. Shakir Status: Standards Track Stream: IETF Date: December 2019 Mailbox: abashandy.ietf@gmail.com, cfilsfil@cisco.com, stefano@previdi.net, bruno.decraene@orange.com, slitkows.ietf@gmail.com, robjs@google.com Pages: 29 Updates/Obsoletes/SeeAlso: None I-D Tag: draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-mpls-22.txt URL: https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc8660 DOI: 10.17487/RFC8660 Segment Routing (SR) leverages the source-routing paradigm. A node steers a packet through a controlled set of instructions, called segments, by prepending the packet with an SR header. In the MPLS data plane, the SR header is instantiated through a label stack. This document specifies the forwarding behavior to allow instantiating SR over the MPLS data plane (SR-MPLS). This document is a product of the Source Packet Routing in Networking Working Group of the IETF. This is now a Proposed Standard. STANDARDS TRACK: This document specifies an Internet Standards Track protocol for the Internet community, and requests discussion and suggestions for improvements. Please refer to the current edition of the Official Internet Protocol Standards (https://www.rfc-editor.org/standards) for the standardization state and status of this protocol. Distribution of this memo is unlimited. This announcement is sent to the IETF-Announce and rfc-dist lists. To subscribe or unsubscribe, see https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce https://mailman.rfc-editor.org/mailman/listinfo/rfc-dist For searching the RFC series, see https://www.rfc-editor.org/search For downloading RFCs, see https://www.rfc-editor.org/retrieve/bulk Requests for special distribution should be addressed to either the author of the RFC in question, or to rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org. Unless specifically noted otherwise on the RFC itself, all RFCs are for unlimited distribution. The RFC Editor Team Association Management Solutions, LLC From nobody Fri Dec 6 13:53:38 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54859120132; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 13:53:29 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nwY-6617E5U6; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 13:53:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from rfc-editor.org (rfc-editor.org [4.31.198.49]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A558D1209B2; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 13:53:27 -0800 (PST) Received: by rfc-editor.org (Postfix, from userid 30) id 8F7A4F4073C; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 13:53:22 -0800 (PST) To: ietf-announce@ietf.org, rfc-dist@rfc-editor.org X-PHP-Originating-Script: 1005:ams_util_lib.php From: rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org Cc: rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org, drafts-update-ref@iana.org, spring@ietf.org Content-type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Message-Id: <20191206215322.8F7A4F4073C@rfc-editor.org> Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 13:53:22 -0800 (PST) Archived-At: Subject: [spring] =?utf-8?q?RFC_8661_on_Segment_Routing_MPLS_Interworking?= =?utf-8?q?_with_LDP?= X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 21:53:32 -0000 A new Request for Comments is now available in online RFC libraries. RFC 8661 Title: Segment Routing MPLS Interworking with LDP Author: A. Bashandy, Ed., C. Filsfils, Ed., S. Previdi, B. Decraene, S. Litkowski Status: Standards Track Stream: IETF Date: December 2019 Mailbox: abashandy.ietf@gmail.com, cfilsfil@cisco.com, stefano@previdi.net, bruno.decraene@orange.com, slitkows.ietf@gmail.com Pages: 21 Updates/Obsoletes/SeeAlso: None I-D Tag: draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-ldp-interop-15.txt URL: https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc8661 DOI: 10.17487/RFC8661 A Segment Routing (SR) node steers a packet through a controlled set of instructions, called segments, by prepending the packet with an SR header. A segment can represent any instruction, topological or service based. SR allows enforcing a flow through any topological path while maintaining per-flow state only at the ingress node to the SR domain. The Segment Routing architecture can be directly applied to the MPLS data plane with no change in the forwarding plane. This document describes how Segment Routing MPLS operates in a network where LDP is deployed and in the case where SR-capable and non-SR-capable nodes coexist. This document is a product of the Source Packet Routing in Networking Working Group of the IETF. This is now a Proposed Standard. STANDARDS TRACK: This document specifies an Internet Standards Track protocol for the Internet community, and requests discussion and suggestions for improvements. Please refer to the current edition of the Official Internet Protocol Standards (https://www.rfc-editor.org/standards) for the standardization state and status of this protocol. Distribution of this memo is unlimited. This announcement is sent to the IETF-Announce and rfc-dist lists. To subscribe or unsubscribe, see https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce https://mailman.rfc-editor.org/mailman/listinfo/rfc-dist For searching the RFC series, see https://www.rfc-editor.org/search For downloading RFCs, see https://www.rfc-editor.org/retrieve/bulk Requests for special distribution should be addressed to either the author of the RFC in question, or to rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org. Unless specifically noted otherwise on the RFC itself, all RFCs are for unlimited distribution. 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boundary="_000_BN7PR05MB5699C73EF0EE1F8E7A96C738AE5F0BN7PR05MB5699namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: d28674f7-7ae9-46af-37b1-08d77a97e6b2 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 06 Dec 2019 22:01:52.4274 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: wut0DcrLXELvOUayXarDfHFImSfV8R7mR+CgsG0pqP5T+Mvr5/i7Aa2MslzSVUBF1Yiyt9q6Ha5EA6sOe0/x6A== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN7PR05MB5922 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.95,18.0.572 definitions=2019-12-06_07:2019-12-05,2019-12-06 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_spam_notspam policy=outbound_spam score=0 mlxscore=0 suspectscore=0 clxscore=1015 lowpriorityscore=0 spamscore=0 phishscore=0 malwarescore=0 priorityscore=1501 adultscore=0 mlxlogscore=721 bulkscore=0 impostorscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-1910280000 definitions=main-1912060175 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 22:01:59 -0000 --_000_BN7PR05MB5699C73EF0EE1F8E7A96C738AE5F0BN7PR05MB5699namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >> I have observed, in your original post, the conflation of SRH insertion = within an SR Domain with the PSP behavior defined in network programming. >> Whether this was intentional or not, I do not know. >> Regardless, it is wrong. Darren, We clearly disagree. RFC 8200 addresses extension header insertion and del= etion identically, in the same sentence. Ron Juniper Business Use Only --_000_BN7PR05MB5699C73EF0EE1F8E7A96C738AE5F0BN7PR05MB5699namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

>> I have observed, in your original post, the c= onflation of SRH insertion within an SR Domain with the PSP behavior define= d in network programming.

>> Whether this was intentional or not, I do not= know.  

>> Regardless, it is wrong.

 

Darren,

 

We clearly disagree.  RFC 8200 addresses extension header insertion= and deletion identically, in the same sentence.

 

            =              &n= bsp;            = ;            &n= bsp;    Ron

 

 

 

 

 

 

Juniper Business Use Only

--_000_BN7PR05MB5699C73EF0EE1F8E7A96C738AE5F0BN7PR05MB5699namp_-- From nobody Fri Dec 6 14:02:21 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C769E1209FA; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 14:02:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 47cyMAlFqHfR; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 14:02:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from clarinet.employees.org (clarinet.employees.org [198.137.202.74]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 71BE51209D8; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 14:02:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from [IPv6:2a01:79c:cebd:47d8:c587:95a9:42c3:73e9] (unknown [IPv6:2a01:79c:cebd:47d8:c587:95a9:42c3:73e9]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by clarinet.employees.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 15B104E11A62; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 22:02:15 +0000 (UTC) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: Ole Troan Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 23:02:13 +0100 Message-Id: References: Cc: Andrew Alston , Ron Bonica , SPRING WG , 6man <6man@ietf.org>, "int-ads@ietf.org" , Bob Hinden , rtg-ads In-Reply-To: To: Fernando Gont X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (17C5046a) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 22:02:20 -0000 > On 6 Dec 2019, at 22:09, Fernando Gont wrote: >=20 > I don't think there is much room for interpretation here, but anyway I > should ask: are you suggesting that I have attacked or been attacking > the process? I would rather say taking advantage of the process. By reiterating the same assertive arguments again and again you contribute t= o polarization. Your strategy for consensus building seems to be one of attr= ition.=20 If you want to help make the process work, I would encourage you to reconsid= er that approach. Ole= From nobody Fri Dec 6 14:24:47 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9AABD1209AF for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 14:24:45 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7O9kmZKXPkZC for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 14:24:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from eu-smtp-delivery-182.mimecast.com (eu-smtp-delivery-182.mimecast.com [207.82.80.182]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6AACB12018D for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 14:24:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from EUR03-VE1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-ve1eur03lp2052.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.9.52]) (Using TLS) by relay.mimecast.com with ESMTP id uk-mta-115-KQsciWAfO3GUuFilqT6SXg-1; Fri, 06 Dec 2019 22:23:36 +0000 Received: from DBBPR03MB5415.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com (20.179.47.79) by DBBPR03MB5254.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com (20.179.45.213) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.2516.13; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 22:23:34 +0000 Received: from DBBPR03MB5415.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::707f:9207:45d4:82bc]) by DBBPR03MB5415.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::707f:9207:45d4:82bc%6]) with mapi id 15.20.2516.017; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 22:23:34 +0000 From: Andrew Alston To: Ole Troan , Fernando Gont CC: Ron Bonica , SPRING WG , 6man <6man@ietf.org>, "int-ads@ietf.org" , Bob Hinden , rtg-ads Thread-Topic: [spring] We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping) Thread-Index: AQHVq7OSYLY5Uppp5kaqQ3smzVGO+aesEh6AgAAHo4CAAArdAIAAGcUAgAACwYCAAQOBgIAAEt0AgAAJFwCAABqdgIAANZuA///SP4CAABhKgIAADt+AgAA4QAA= Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 22:23:34 +0000 Message-ID: <4255AD3B-379C-45BF-96E1-D3D9141A684F@liquidtelecom.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-GB X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/10.1f.0.191110 x-originating-ip: [2c0f:fe40:3:3:a1b6:dc2b:61a9:8e7] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-ht: Tenant x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 128334a3-b0d3-4a46-1600-08d77a9aeea4 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: DBBPR03MB5254: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:9508; 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charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 22:24:46 -0000 T2xlIC0gc28gLSBsZXQgbWUgdW5kZXJzdGFuZCBzb21ldGhpbmcuDQoNClRoZSBkZWZpbml0aW9u IG9mIGNvbnNlbnN1cyAtIGFtb25nIG90aGVyIHRoaW5ncyAtIHNheSB0aGF0IGFsbCBvdXRzdGFu ZGluZyBvYmplY3Rpb25zIGhhdmUgYmVlbiBhZGRyZXNzZWQgKHRob3VnaCBub3QgcG90ZW50aWFs bHkgcmVzb2x2ZWQpLiAgV2hlbiB5b3UgaGF2ZSBtdWx0aXBsZSBwZW9wbGUgc2F5aW5nIC0gYSBk cmFmdCB2aW9sYXRlcyBSRkM4MjAwIGFuZCB0aGF0IGlzIGEgY29uY2VybiAtIGFuZCBpZiBzdWNo IGEgdGhpbmcgaXMgcmVxdWlyZWQsIGFuIHVwZGF0ZSB0byBSRkM4MjAwIHNob3VsZCBiZSBkb25l LiAgTXVsdGlwbGUgY29uY2VybnMgaGF2ZSBiZWVuIHJhaXNlZCAtIGEgbnVtYmVyIG9mIHdoaWNo IGhhdmUgbm90IGJlZW4gYWRkcmVzc2VkIHRvIHRoZSBzYXRpc2ZhY3Rpb24gb2YgdGhvc2UgYXNr aW5nIHRoZSBxdWVzdGlvbnMuDQoNCllldCAtIHdlIG5vdyBzZWUgZG9jdW1lbnRzIGJlaW5nIHB1 c2hlZCB0aHJvdWdoIHRvIGxhc3QgY2FsbCB3aXRob3V0IHRoZXNlIHRoaW5ncyBiZWluZyBhZGRy ZXNzZWQuICBTbyBJIHdvdWxkIGFzayAtIHdoYXQgZXhhY3RseSBkbyB5b3UsIGFzIGEgd29ya2lu ZyBncm91cCBjaGFpciBwcm9wb3NlIHdlIGRvIC0gc3dhbGxvdyBvdXIgdGVjaG5pY2FsIGNvbmNl cm5zIGFuZCBvdXIgb2JqZWN0aW9ucyBhbmQgYmVjYXVzZSB3ZSd2ZSBzYWlkIGl0IG9uY2UsIGFu ZCBpdCdzIGJlZW4gaWdub3JlZCBvciBzd2VwdCB1bmRlciB0aGUgcnVnLCBzaHJ1ZyBvdXIgc2hv dWxkZXJzIGFuZCBzYXkgLSBvaCB3ZWxsIC0gdGhhdOKAmXMgb2sgLSB3ZSB0cmllZCAtIGFuZCBs ZXQgc29tZXRoaW5nIHdlIGJlbGlldmUgdG8gYmUgdGVjaG5pY2FsbHkgZmxhd2VkIHNhaWwgdGhy b3VnaD8NCg0KSSBzdG9vZCBhbmQgdmVyeSBjbGVhcmx5IHN0YXRlZCBtdWx0aXBsZSB0aW1lcyB0 aGF0IEkgYmVsaWV2ZSB0aGF0IHdvcmsgb24gdGhpcyBzdHVmZiBhbmQgdGhlIGRyYWZ0cyB3aGlj aCBJIGFtIGNvLWF1dGhvciBvbiBzaG91bGQgY29udGludWUgaW4gcGFyYWxsZWwgLSBiZWNhdXNl IGZvciBvbmUgLSBJIGJlbGlldmUgaW4gc29tZSB3YXlzIC0gdGhleSBhZGRyZXNzIGRpZmZlcmVu dCB0aGluZ3MgLSB5ZXQgLSBhdCB0aGUgc2FtZSB0aW1lIC0gdGhhdCBkb2VzIG5vdCBtZWFuIHRo YXQgSSBiZWxpZXZlIHRoYXQgd2Ugc2hvdWxkIGFjY2VwdCB0aGluZ3Mgd2hpY2ggd2UgaGF2ZSBk ZWVwIHRlY2huaWNhbCBjb25jZXJucyBhYm91dC4gIA0KDQpUaGUgZW5naW5lZXJpbmcgbXVzdCBj b21lIGZpcnN0IC0gYW5kIGl0IHNlZW1zIHZlcnkgY2xlYXIgdG8gbWUgdGhhdCBib3RoIG15c2Vs ZiBhbmQgb3RoZXJzIC0gaGF2ZSBzaWduaWZpY2FudCB0ZWNobmljYWwgYW5kIG9wZXJhdGlvbmFs IGNvbmNlcm5zIC0gYW5kIEkgZmluZCBpdCByYXRoZXIgYml6YXJyZSB0aGF0IHlvdSBzZWVtIHRv IGltcGx5IHRoYXQgb25jZSB0aGVzZSBjb25jZXJucyBhcmUgc3RhdGVkIG9uY2UgLSB3ZSBzaG91 bGQgc3dhbGxvdyBpdCBhbmQgYWNjZXB0IGEgc2l0dWF0aW9uIHdoZXJlIHRoZXNlIGFyZSBub3Qg YWRkcmVzc2VkIGFuZCBkb2N1bWVudHMgYXJlIHNob3ZlZCB0aHJvdWdoIHRvIGxhc3QgY2FsbCBp biB0aGUgZmFjZSBvZiBzZXJpb3VzIHRlY2huaWNhbCBvYmplY3Rpb24uDQoNClNvIC0gcGxlYXNl IC0gY2xhcmlmeSBmb3IgbWUgLSBhcmUgeW91IGFza2luZyB1cyB0byBzd2FsbG93IG91ciBvYmpl Y3Rpb25zIGFuZCBqdXN0IGFjY2VwdCBzb21ldGhpbmcgdGhhdCB2aW9sYXRlcyBhbm90aGVyIHJm YyBmb3Igd2hpY2ggdGhlcmUgaXMgY29uc2Vuc3VzIGp1c3QgYmVjYXVzZSB3ZSBhc2tlZCBvbmNl LCBhbmQgdGhlIGlzc3VlIHdhc24ndCBhZGRyZXNzZWQgLSBzbyB0aGF0IG1ha2VzIGl0IHNvbWVo b3cgZGlzYXBwZWFyPyAgT3Igd2hhdCBleGFjdGx5IGFyZSB5b3UgZXhwZWN0aW5nIG9mIHVzPw0K DQpBbmRyZXcNCg0KDQrvu79PbiAwNy8xMi8yMDE5LCAwMTowMiwgIk9sZSBUcm9hbiIgPG90cm9h bkBlbXBsb3llZXMub3JnPiB3cm90ZToNCg0KICAgIA0KICAgIA0KICAgID4gT24gNiBEZWMgMjAx OSwgYXQgMjI6MDksIEZlcm5hbmRvIEdvbnQgPGZnb250QHNpNm5ldHdvcmtzLmNvbT4gd3JvdGU6 DQogICAgPiANCiAgICA+IEkgZG9uJ3QgdGhpbmsgdGhlcmUgaXMgbXVjaCByb29tIGZvciBpbnRl cnByZXRhdGlvbiBoZXJlLCBidXQgYW55d2F5IEkNCiAgICA+IHNob3VsZCBhc2s6IGFyZSB5b3Ug c3VnZ2VzdGluZyB0aGF0IEkgaGF2ZSBhdHRhY2tlZCBvciBiZWVuIGF0dGFja2luZw0KICAgID4g dGhlIHByb2Nlc3M/DQogICAgDQogICAgSSB3b3VsZCByYXRoZXIgc2F5IHRha2luZyBhZHZhbnRh Z2Ugb2YgdGhlIHByb2Nlc3MuDQogICAgDQogICAgQnkgcmVpdGVyYXRpbmcgdGhlIHNhbWUgYXNz ZXJ0aXZlIGFyZ3VtZW50cyBhZ2FpbiBhbmQgYWdhaW4geW91IGNvbnRyaWJ1dGUgdG8gcG9sYXJp emF0aW9uLiBZb3VyIHN0cmF0ZWd5IGZvciBjb25zZW5zdXMgYnVpbGRpbmcgc2VlbXMgdG8gYmUg b25lIG9mIGF0dHJpdGlvbi4gDQogICAgDQogICAgSWYgeW91IHdhbnQgdG8gaGVscCBtYWtlIHRo ZSBwcm9jZXNzIHdvcmssIEkgd291bGQgZW5jb3VyYWdlIHlvdSB0byByZWNvbnNpZGVyIHRoYXQg YXBwcm9hY2guDQogICAgDQogICAgT2xlDQogICAgDQogICAgDQoNCg== From nobody Fri Dec 6 14:24:56 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56676120120; 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Fri, 6 Dec 2019 23:24:40 +0100 (CET) X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett From: Sander Steffann Message-Id: <1DA43CC6-D6FF-4B4F-B7EF-8824FA069C31@steffann.nl> Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_E990701C-7DD7-422F-BFCB-FA9EA5B94EB8"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha256 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.0 \(3594.4.19\)) Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 23:24:39 +0100 In-Reply-To: Cc: Fernando Gont , Ron Bonica , SPRING WG , 6man <6man@ietf.org>, "int-ads@ietf.org" , rtg-ads , Bob Hinden To: Ole Troan References: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3594.4.19) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 22:24:49 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_E990701C-7DD7-422F-BFCB-FA9EA5B94EB8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi Ole, >> I don't think there is much room for interpretation here, but anyway = I >> should ask: are you suggesting that I have attacked or been attacking >> the process? >=20 > I would rather say taking advantage of the process. >=20 > By reiterating the same assertive arguments again and again you = contribute to polarization. Your strategy for consensus building seems = to be one of attrition. I resent this statement. The process is designed to put the onus of = justifying changes to the proposer. The fact that Fernando has to keep = repeating his objections are the failure of the process and the chairs. > If you want to help make the process work, I would encourage you to = reconsider that approach. No, the chairs need to change their approach so that objections to = proposals are properly addressed (whether the chairs like the proposal = or not. I have had to do that in my time as chair as well, and it's not = easy but it's part of the job). When an objection has been properly, explicitly and publicly addressed, = THEN you can tell people to stop posting. Sander --Apple-Mail=_E990701C-7DD7-422F-BFCB-FA9EA5B94EB8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEEl13OIanoifT0p8LWWPjdc9pon8sFAl3q1ScACgkQWPjdc9po n8sCJxAAjwp3/gy5KTf6KUfICID6PnnoOASADpFGjiDCt4UOZNSnR6kmvr9dK336 Do1G0DKiiCb/fvrSc+ajgYnJQ0Uh5aGd6tDGJb2zDesqYNDt9xRUGLNYisCx0EYd jDlKZ4QH9nzZVcqXVeL9q2a/O12JIUvld8tylTZaYWHHdVyZnbADRhBLzCCXAczi Uo6QwrIGzbrcl0Ue9LhkfwocddZZU5XHNH4AUC16jVBMchgJuR7cSNRouvg3hi5G 2euL9zE6F3eq4L7itFQyFO3FoHqAGWeeqGrJvvbwAtrciYIM6UT90IBKM3ZwDnq/ b8m9hGf3C+imGD9Wz9P1uTqptBILtc0vGQdc21c8ssW3rXYUSsAGyJ1qQ29w/oHK nBmR1c/VzMJnp0kM14fyURc1NOcnGQIbVHsKO8Enk0/MQoo8GsSAWxx3wLZt1Ulg KmX6vf9fCN1uSmnnOHbrt85YRM5scrzKBvTVVC0mh23BfwfG0Udc6gf1VgJA4FO7 n3bZLT9EgKBabhNZVcXT60EC5Z+woh0azPNa39WnVIQfK6/bYXmLSqUiCmgq0lam S65CdZbLPDSnhWMMghJ3KYWGGiag79x/VHJ3C4MBX4tUr1VZBUrRMNho/Tt4/wH+ 2ynUDQvKGm4IA04Z5qVO74GszZuHwNbpcYucTu6qECClIDrl8jk= =zcUD -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_E990701C-7DD7-422F-BFCB-FA9EA5B94EB8-- From nobody Fri Dec 6 14:35:16 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90BC1120A53; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 14:35:07 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MKEcgnzDgbyU; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 14:35:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from rfc-editor.org (rfc-editor.org [4.31.198.49]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8BCAC1209C1; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 14:35:02 -0800 (PST) Received: by rfc-editor.org (Postfix, from userid 30) id 73152F4073B; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 14:34:57 -0800 (PST) To: ietf-announce@ietf.org, rfc-dist@rfc-editor.org X-PHP-Originating-Script: 1005:ams_util_lib.php From: rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org Cc: rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org, drafts-update-ref@iana.org, spring@ietf.org Content-type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Message-Id: <20191206223457.73152F4073B@rfc-editor.org> Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 14:34:57 -0800 (PST) Archived-At: Subject: [spring] =?utf-8?q?RFC_8670_on_BGP_Prefix_Segment_in_Large-Scale?= =?utf-8?q?_Data_Centers?= X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 22:35:11 -0000 A new Request for Comments is now available in online RFC libraries. RFC 8670 Title: BGP Prefix Segment in Large-Scale Data Centers Author: C. Filsfils, Ed., S. Previdi, G. Dawra, E. Aries, P. Lapukhov Status: Informational Stream: IETF Date: December 2019 Mailbox: cfilsfil@cisco.com, stefano@previdi.net, gdawra.ietf@gmail.com, exa@arrcus.com, petr@fb.com Pages: 18 Updates/Obsoletes/SeeAlso: None I-D Tag: draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-msdc-11.txt URL: https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc8670 DOI: 10.17487/RFC8670 This document describes the motivation for, and benefits of, applying Segment Routing (SR) in BGP-based large-scale data centers. It describes the design to deploy SR in those data centers for both the MPLS and IPv6 data planes. This document is a product of the Source Packet Routing in Networking Working Group of the IETF. INFORMATIONAL: This memo provides information for the Internet community. It does not specify an Internet standard of any kind. Distribution of this memo is unlimited. This announcement is sent to the IETF-Announce and rfc-dist lists. To subscribe or unsubscribe, see https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce https://mailman.rfc-editor.org/mailman/listinfo/rfc-dist For searching the RFC series, see https://www.rfc-editor.org/search For downloading RFCs, see https://www.rfc-editor.org/retrieve/bulk Requests for special distribution should be addressed to either the author of the RFC in question, or to rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org. Unless specifically noted otherwise on the RFC itself, all RFCs are for unlimited distribution. The RFC Editor Team Association Management Solutions, LLC From nobody Fri Dec 6 15:09:23 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A69471200FE; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 15:09:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KvUJcfJavqOg; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 15:09:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from fgont.go6lab.si (fgont.go6lab.si [91.239.96.14]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 67BC31200A3; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 15:09:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.4.77] (unknown [190.179.35.56]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by fgont.go6lab.si (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 8E1E7859B8; Sat, 7 Dec 2019 00:09:07 +0100 (CET) To: Ole Troan Cc: Ron Bonica , SPRING WG , 6man <6man@ietf.org>, "int-ads@ietf.org" , Andrew Alston , rtg-ads , Bob Hinden References: From: Fernando Gont Autocrypt: addr=fgont@si6networks.com; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBE5so2gBEACzBQBLUy8nzgAzSZn6ViXT6TmZBFNYNqTpPRvTVtUqF6+tkI+IEd9N2E8p pXUXCd0W4dkxz6o7pagnK63m4QSueggvp881RVVHOF8oTSHOdnGxLfLeLNJFKE1FOutU3vod GK/wG/Fwzkv9MebdXpMlLV8nnJuAt66XGl/lU1JrNfrKO4SoYQi4TsB/waUQcygh7OR/PEO0 EttiU8kZUbZNv58WH+PAj/rdZCrgUSiGXiWUQQKShqKnJxLuAcTcg5YRwL8se/V6ciW0QR9i /sr52gSmLLbW5N3hAoO+nv1V/9SjJAUvzXu43k8sua/XlCXkqU7uLj41CRR72JeUZ4DQsYfP LfNPC98ZGTVxbWbFtLXxpzzDDT8i3uo7w1LJ2Ij/d5ezcARqw01HGljWWxnidUrjbTpxkJ9X EllcsH94mer728j/HKzC9OcTuz6WUBP3Crgl6Q47gY5ZIiF0lsmd9/wxbaq5NiJ+lGuBRZrD v0dQx9KmyI0/pH2AF8cW897/6ypvcyD/1/11CJcN+uAGIrklwJlVpRSbKbFtGC6In592lhu7 wnK8cgyP5cTU+vva9+g6P1wehi4bylXdlKc6mMphbtSA+T3WBNP557+mh3L62l4pGaEGidcZ DLYT2Ud18eAJmxU3HnM8P3iZZgeoK7oqgb53/eg96vkONXNIOwARAQABtCVGZXJuYW5kbyBH b250IDxmZ29udEBzaTZuZXR3b3Jrcy5jb20+iQJBBBMBAgArAhsjBQkSzAMABgsJCAcDAgYV CAIJCgsEFgIDAQIeAQIXgAUCTmylpQIZAQAKCRCuJQ1VHU50kv7wD/9fuNtTfxSLk3B3Hs3p ixTy8YXVjdkVwWlnJjFd7BOWmg7sI+LDhpjGfT6+ddOiwkumnvUZpObodj4ysH0i8c7P4C5t F9yu7WjklSlrB5Rth2CGChg5bKt541z2WHkFFxys9qBLmCSYDeKQkzLqhCjIUJizY2kOJ2GI MnSFDzJjhSFEh//oW830Y8fel1xnf/NVF+lBVtRMtMOfoWUqDjvP3sJ1G4zgkDCnF0CfncLx +hq2Mv26Uq9OTzvLH9aSQQ/f067BOkKAJKsfHdborX4E96ISTz57/4xECRSMr5dVsKVm4Y// uVIsb+L5z+a32FaiBZIAKDgnJO7Z8j6CV5e5yfuBTtX52Yi9HjYYqnYJGSDxYd6igD4bWu+7 xmJPHjkdqZgGV6dQIgiUfqkU+s5Cv350vK48CMaT/ZLo2BdsMhWsmaHmb+waePUMyq6E4E9x 9Js+EJb9ZiCfxS9exgieZQpet1L36IvhiwByvkQM009ywfa30JeMOltUtfLi5V06WQWsTzPL 5C+4cpkguSuAJVDTctjCA0moIeVDOpJ8WH9voQ4IeWapQnX35OIoj1jGJqqYdx65gc1ygbyx b8vw+pJ9E5GLse5TQnYifOWpXzX9053dtbwp/2OVhU4KLlzfCPCEsoTyfu9nIZxdI2PMwiL5 M85BfjX4NmwBLmPGoLkCDQRObKNoARAAqqXCkr250BchRDmi+05F5UQFgylUh10XTAJxBeaQ UNtdxZiZRm6jgomSrqeYtricM9t9K0qb4X2ZXmAMW8o8AYW3RrQHTjcBwMnAKzUIEXXWaLfG cid/ygmvWzIHgMDQKP+MUq1AGQrnvt/MRLvZLyczAV1RTXS58qNaxtaSpc3K/yrDozh/a4pu WcUsVvIkzyx43sqcwamDSBb6U8JFoZizuLXiARLLASgyHrrCedNIZdWSx0z0iHEpZIelA2ih AGLiSMtmtikVEyrJICgO81DkKNCbBbPg+7fi23V6M24+3syHk3IdQibTtBMxinIPyLFF0byJ aGm0fmjefhnmVJyCIl/FDkCHprVhTme57G2/WdoGnUvnT7mcwDRb8XY5nNRkOJsqqLPemKjz kx8mXdQbunXtX9bKyVgd1gIl+LLsxbdzRCch773UBVoortPdK3kMyLtZ4uMeDX3comjx+6VL bztUdJ1Zc9/njwVG8fgmQ+0Kj5+bzQfUY+MmX0HTXIx3B4R1I1a8QoOwi1N+iZNdewV5Zfq+ 29NlQLnVPjCRCKbaz9k6RJ2oIti55YUI6zSsL3lmlOXsRbXN5bRswFczkNSCJxJMlDiyAUIC WOay7ymzvgzPa+BY/mYn94vRaurDQ4/ljOfj6oqgfjts+dJev4Jj89vp8MQI3KJpZPEAEQEA AYkCJQQYAQIADwUCTmyjaAIbDAUJEswDAAAKCRCuJQ1VHU50km4xEACho45PZrUjY4Zl2opR DFNo5a6roTOPpgwO9PcBb3I5F8yX2Dnew+9OhgWXbBhAFq4DCx+9Gjs43Bn60qbZTDbLGJ/m 8N4PwEiq0e5MKceYcbetEdEUWhm5L6psU9ZZ82GR3UGxPXYe+oifEoJjOXQ39avf9S8p3yKP Diil0E79rn7LbJjMcgMLyjFg9SDoJ6pHLtniJoDhEAaSSgeV7Y745+gyMIdtQmrFHfqrFdjq D6G0HE+Z68ywc5KN67YxhvhBmSycs1ZSKAXv1zLDlXdmjHDHkU3xMcB+RkuiTba8yRFYwb/n j62CC4NhFTuIKOc4ta3dJsyXTGh/hO9UjWUnmAGfd0fnzTBZF8Qlnw/8ftx5lt4/O+eqY1EN RITScnPzXE/wMOlTtdkddQ+QN6xt6jyR2XtAIi7aAFHypIqA3lLI9hF9x+lj4UQ2yA9LqpoX 6URpPOd13JhAyDe47cwsP1u9Y+OBvQTVLSvw7Liu2b4KjqL4lx++VdBi7dXsjJ6kjIRjI6Lb WVpxe8LumMCuVDepTafBZ49gr7Fgc4F9ZSCo6ChgQNLn6WDzIkqFX+42KuHz90AHWhuW+KZR 1aJylERWeTcMCGUSBptd48KniWmD6kPKpzwoMkJtEXTuO2lVuborxzwuqOTNuYg9lWDl7zKt wPI9brGzquUHy4qRrA== Message-ID: Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 20:08:42 -0300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 23:09:17 -0000 On 6/12/19 19:02, Ole Troan wrote: > > >> On 6 Dec 2019, at 22:09, Fernando Gont wrote: >> >> I don't think there is much room for interpretation here, but anyway I >> should ask: are you suggesting that I have attacked or been attacking >> the process? > > I would rather say taking advantage of the process. > > By reiterating the same assertive arguments again and again you contribute to polarization. Your strategy for consensus building seems to be one of attrition. > > If you want to help make the process work, I would encourage you to reconsider that approach. I'm sad to hear you say that. But let me try to says things in an even more brief and explicit way: At the time of this writing, and for at least more than one year, I haven't had any sort of employment relationship, contract, or received any sort of compensation or payment of any form, neither from the folks pushing SRv6, nor from people pushing against EH-insertion, or from folks pushing any sort of alternative technology that might be seem as competing with SR. So, could you please explain to me what's the advantage that I'm taking? And what for? On the other hand, on this particular topic (and I've mentioned them in my previous email, but could reiterate them, if you wish) you have taken a number of decisions and positions which seem to circumvent our processes, encourage violation of existing specifications, and ultimately benefit an effort pushed by your own employer. No single one of my messages in this thread have been about building consensus. The have been about respecting our processes and rules. That means, for example: * polling the mailing list instead of deciding (on your own) that the group wants to work on EH insertion, and, * complying with existing specifications unless there's formal consensus for them to be formally updated. As a 6man chair, I would expect that you would be doing exactly that yourself, as opposed to essentially suggesting the group is going to work on a document without polling the wg for adoption (particularly when the topic has been, at best, controversial), or encourage other groups to violate the same specs that this same wg produced. Thanks, -- Fernando Gont SI6 Networks e-mail: fgont@si6networks.com PGP Fingerprint: 6666 31C6 D484 63B2 8FB1 E3C4 AE25 0D55 1D4E 7492 From nobody Fri Dec 6 15:56:01 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 944C71200EF; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 15:55:53 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HTqaaaEi2Fhi; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 15:55:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from clarinet.employees.org (clarinet.employees.org [198.137.202.74]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 31F47120073; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 15:55:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from astfgl.hanazo.no (unknown [IPv6:2a01:79c:cebd:47d8:c8b:f971:52ca:e1ba]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by clarinet.employees.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 528654E11AF5; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 23:55:50 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by astfgl.hanazo.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65459252ED36; Sat, 7 Dec 2019 00:55:47 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.0 \(3601.0.10\)) From: otroan@employees.org In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2019 00:55:47 +0100 Cc: Ron Bonica , SPRING WG , 6man <6man@ietf.org>, "int-ads@ietf.org" , Andrew Alston , rtg-ads , Bob Hinden Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: To: Fernando Gont X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3601.0.10) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 23:55:54 -0000 > * polling the mailing list instead of deciding (on your own) that the > group wants to work on EH insertion, and, Which decision are you referring to? I have certainly never decided that working group wants to work on = header insertion. With regards to the documents, I believe I clarified the statement of = the working group seeing no reason why both documents couldn't be = continue to be worked on. Those documents are not adopted, nor has any decision about adoption = been made, nor is any adoption call of those documents planned. I certainly don't want us as a group or myself personally to be working = on header insertion. You might not be alone, but you certainly keep repeatedly forcing the = working group to consider the issue. > * complying with existing specifications unless there's formal = consensus > for them to be formally updated. I believe I have responded multiple times to this point. I do not in principle see a conflict with specifying how header = insertion can work in a specific case, and the text in RFC8200. I would strongly oppose updating RFC8200, since = header insertion is clearly something that can only apply in specific use cases. > As a 6man chair, I would expect that you would be doing exactly that > yourself, as opposed to essentially suggesting the group is going to > work on a document without polling the wg for adoption (particularly > when the topic has been, at best, controversial), or encourage other > groups to violate the same specs that this same wg produced. I try to do the best job I can, and be fair, neutral, open and = transparent. That job is clearly not easy when this particular debate is as = disruptive as it is. You at least always have RFC2026, section 6.5. Best regards, Ole= From nobody Fri Dec 6 17:16:02 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30298120044; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 17:15:55 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 13yY8RUipepl; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 17:15:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pj1-x102a.google.com (mail-pj1-x102a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::102a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5560A12006D; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 17:15:52 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pj1-x102a.google.com with SMTP id g4so3457986pjs.10; Fri, 06 Dec 2019 17:15:52 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=ZjkuRuhgQJoeIkELJJWkvozGWu5BGf+yq/8t6B62dXY=; b=idpHVKlM9C3bmxn+sBFpPlPOKt3VyV1uSi0yY1KCqL8tLwW3CwR1/mnEAp05y7d5P0 52egEDRiigMxm2UEWJaySDZsoLrLrp+IT2HFASLetlsYAWoBjcGlun1WlWWEJVUy4we4 PAuTqqMsRGD6Er58JEPlsH48gMRhfo55/YCLtaD+YsyNhfliFES46uFrbxNrYYg9q5nG zMPFS0aijJvhNcLpnF22ICHvJ1iXH0IkH777GUY0OrIniqa6GK/GMHarqYQ7gtJsIeEn INs9CRo4Mtmy9AX/x3r9R6du6YJufD+Ub8NN5W+YjER0laTni4RX5xLSyTM8b8IkO30Z 1kyg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=ZjkuRuhgQJoeIkELJJWkvozGWu5BGf+yq/8t6B62dXY=; b=A3UQMdHwLw2/LFIUseFcamXqcM60XRBhv3xgs+rhLpyGVM5ecGF7bf0DVZsSPWIb7K 9eUldOdtM5tngIdldlRdIcT0te6GdsjazH9ZpWuvWRHaGQbcRf00DebqVXaxmQyGv1L2 PgDgkxwH4B92NVKPcWPT4YEmPtI59hJwAmZdp+msUBWY03Qu2K5gG001JTMk8eQyRZUh NRn2zEmbRGfVCN4OVMF+YCGlSPNJ9PaGEpu/HxsGVJhpUuJd9b9F0LzKJxxAXP7HzdhV 5pbF+hhKLgF+fSjUrdtwtyq8hQR7cWoJqYc2dZZJXwiTz/noMuybmcRLpj9BdQjul0Bk P5AA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVF5dLcaSrHu92hIAPJ3mQxwODl5mhj4+gvL21e8t0N5CCV8b7E 8EwORcsVwuqJQv8NxAj7Fws= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxI4KpBGd25IiRuouvRrhgash438XS2wfSVriyPRg8Kj/7yYfTuQiKDDqdhZtqwkefyaUNxpg== X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:62ca:: with SMTP id k10mr19121188pjs.59.1575681351634; Fri, 06 Dec 2019 17:15:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.178.30] (228.147.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz. [111.69.147.228]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id g7sm18204453pfq.33.2019.12.06.17.15.47 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 06 Dec 2019 17:15:50 -0800 (PST) To: Andrew Alston , Ole Troan , Fernando Gont Cc: Ron Bonica , SPRING WG , 6man <6man@ietf.org>, "int-ads@ietf.org" , rtg-ads , Bob Hinden References: <4255AD3B-379C-45BF-96E1-D3D9141A684F@liquidtelecom.com> From: Brian E Carpenter Message-ID: Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2019 14:15:44 +1300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <4255AD3B-379C-45BF-96E1-D3D9141A684F@liquidtelecom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2019 01:15:55 -0000 Andrew, I am a bit confused (not unusual). Can you get back to basics on my quest= ions below? On 07-Dec-19 11:23, Andrew Alston wrote: > Ole - so - let me understand something. >=20 > The definition of consensus - among other things - say that all outstan= ding objections have been addressed (though not potentially resolved). W= hen you have multiple people saying - a draft violates RFC8200 and that i= s a concern -=20 Are you referring to draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-05? If not, the subject header of this thread is a bit confusing. If so, why are you asking Ole? The WG last call is in the spring WG, with= a courtesy copy to 6MAN. > and if such a thing is required, an update to RFC8200 should be done. Why does that follow? Alternatively, draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-progr= amming could acknowledge that it deviates from RFC8200. Whether that's ac= ceptable would be a question for the IETF Last Call rather than any singl= e WG. At the moment, the draft only mentions RFC8200 in a context that discusse= s neither insertion nor removal of extension headers, which is beside the= point. Like draft-voyer, if it describes a violation of RFC8200, shouldn= 't that be explicit in the text? There's a lot of jargon in draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming. I = can't tell from the jargon whether "insert" means "insert on the fly" and= whether "Pop the SRH" means "delete on the fly". Should those terms be c= larified before the draft advances? > Multiple concerns have been raised - a number of which have not been ad= dressed to the satisfaction of those asking the questions. >=20 > Yet - we now see documents being pushed through to last call=20 Erm, that's what Last Call is for - finding the things that haven't been = settled. But for draft-ietf-spring-*, it's the spring WG chairs you shoul= d be asking, IMHO. Regards, Brian > without these things being addressed. So I would ask - what exactly do= you, as a working group chair propose we do - swallow our technical conc= erns and our objections and because we've said it once, and it's been ign= ored or swept under the rug, shrug our shoulders and say - oh well - that= =E2=80=99s ok - we tried - and let something we believe to be technically= flawed sail through? >=20 > I stood and very clearly stated multiple times that I believe that work= on this stuff and the drafts which I am co-author on should continue in = parallel - because for one - I believe in some ways - they address differ= ent things - yet - at the same time - that does not mean that I believe t= hat we should accept things which we have deep technical concerns about. = =20 >=20 > The engineering must come first - and it seems very clear to me that bo= th myself and others - have significant technical and operational concern= s - and I find it rather bizarre that you seem to imply that once these c= oncerns are stated once - we should swallow it and accept a situation whe= re these are not addressed and documents are shoved through to last call = in the face of serious technical objection. >=20 > So - please - clarify for me - are you asking us to swallow our objecti= ons and just accept something that violates another rfc for which there i= s consensus just because we asked once, and the issue wasn't addressed - = so that makes it somehow disappear? Or what exactly are you expecting of= us? >=20 > Andrew >=20 >=20 > =EF=BB=BFOn 07/12/2019, 01:02, "Ole Troan" wrote= : >=20 > =20 > =20 > > On 6 Dec 2019, at 22:09, Fernando Gont wr= ote: > >=20 > > I don't think there is much room for interpretation here, but any= way I > > should ask: are you suggesting that I have attacked or been attac= king > > the process? > =20 > I would rather say taking advantage of the process. > =20 > By reiterating the same assertive arguments again and again you con= tribute to polarization. Your strategy for consensus building seems to be= one of attrition.=20 > =20 > If you want to help make the process work, I would encourage you to= reconsider that approach. > =20 > Ole > =20 > =20 >=20 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- >=20 From nobody Fri Dec 6 17:18:42 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 585AE120044; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 17:18:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cnRrMEI6_ZTF; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 17:18:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from fgont.go6lab.si (fgont.go6lab.si [91.239.96.14]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9816912003E; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 17:18:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.4.77] (unknown [190.179.35.56]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by fgont.go6lab.si (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 63C4A863C5; Sat, 7 Dec 2019 02:18:31 +0100 (CET) To: otroan@employees.org Cc: Ron Bonica , SPRING WG , 6man <6man@ietf.org>, "int-ads@ietf.org" , Andrew Alston , rtg-ads , Bob Hinden References: From: Fernando Gont Autocrypt: addr=fgont@si6networks.com; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBE5so2gBEACzBQBLUy8nzgAzSZn6ViXT6TmZBFNYNqTpPRvTVtUqF6+tkI+IEd9N2E8p pXUXCd0W4dkxz6o7pagnK63m4QSueggvp881RVVHOF8oTSHOdnGxLfLeLNJFKE1FOutU3vod GK/wG/Fwzkv9MebdXpMlLV8nnJuAt66XGl/lU1JrNfrKO4SoYQi4TsB/waUQcygh7OR/PEO0 EttiU8kZUbZNv58WH+PAj/rdZCrgUSiGXiWUQQKShqKnJxLuAcTcg5YRwL8se/V6ciW0QR9i /sr52gSmLLbW5N3hAoO+nv1V/9SjJAUvzXu43k8sua/XlCXkqU7uLj41CRR72JeUZ4DQsYfP LfNPC98ZGTVxbWbFtLXxpzzDDT8i3uo7w1LJ2Ij/d5ezcARqw01HGljWWxnidUrjbTpxkJ9X EllcsH94mer728j/HKzC9OcTuz6WUBP3Crgl6Q47gY5ZIiF0lsmd9/wxbaq5NiJ+lGuBRZrD v0dQx9KmyI0/pH2AF8cW897/6ypvcyD/1/11CJcN+uAGIrklwJlVpRSbKbFtGC6In592lhu7 wnK8cgyP5cTU+vva9+g6P1wehi4bylXdlKc6mMphbtSA+T3WBNP557+mh3L62l4pGaEGidcZ DLYT2Ud18eAJmxU3HnM8P3iZZgeoK7oqgb53/eg96vkONXNIOwARAQABtCVGZXJuYW5kbyBH b250IDxmZ29udEBzaTZuZXR3b3Jrcy5jb20+iQJBBBMBAgArAhsjBQkSzAMABgsJCAcDAgYV CAIJCgsEFgIDAQIeAQIXgAUCTmylpQIZAQAKCRCuJQ1VHU50kv7wD/9fuNtTfxSLk3B3Hs3p ixTy8YXVjdkVwWlnJjFd7BOWmg7sI+LDhpjGfT6+ddOiwkumnvUZpObodj4ysH0i8c7P4C5t F9yu7WjklSlrB5Rth2CGChg5bKt541z2WHkFFxys9qBLmCSYDeKQkzLqhCjIUJizY2kOJ2GI MnSFDzJjhSFEh//oW830Y8fel1xnf/NVF+lBVtRMtMOfoWUqDjvP3sJ1G4zgkDCnF0CfncLx +hq2Mv26Uq9OTzvLH9aSQQ/f067BOkKAJKsfHdborX4E96ISTz57/4xECRSMr5dVsKVm4Y// uVIsb+L5z+a32FaiBZIAKDgnJO7Z8j6CV5e5yfuBTtX52Yi9HjYYqnYJGSDxYd6igD4bWu+7 xmJPHjkdqZgGV6dQIgiUfqkU+s5Cv350vK48CMaT/ZLo2BdsMhWsmaHmb+waePUMyq6E4E9x 9Js+EJb9ZiCfxS9exgieZQpet1L36IvhiwByvkQM009ywfa30JeMOltUtfLi5V06WQWsTzPL 5C+4cpkguSuAJVDTctjCA0moIeVDOpJ8WH9voQ4IeWapQnX35OIoj1jGJqqYdx65gc1ygbyx b8vw+pJ9E5GLse5TQnYifOWpXzX9053dtbwp/2OVhU4KLlzfCPCEsoTyfu9nIZxdI2PMwiL5 M85BfjX4NmwBLmPGoLkCDQRObKNoARAAqqXCkr250BchRDmi+05F5UQFgylUh10XTAJxBeaQ UNtdxZiZRm6jgomSrqeYtricM9t9K0qb4X2ZXmAMW8o8AYW3RrQHTjcBwMnAKzUIEXXWaLfG cid/ygmvWzIHgMDQKP+MUq1AGQrnvt/MRLvZLyczAV1RTXS58qNaxtaSpc3K/yrDozh/a4pu WcUsVvIkzyx43sqcwamDSBb6U8JFoZizuLXiARLLASgyHrrCedNIZdWSx0z0iHEpZIelA2ih AGLiSMtmtikVEyrJICgO81DkKNCbBbPg+7fi23V6M24+3syHk3IdQibTtBMxinIPyLFF0byJ aGm0fmjefhnmVJyCIl/FDkCHprVhTme57G2/WdoGnUvnT7mcwDRb8XY5nNRkOJsqqLPemKjz kx8mXdQbunXtX9bKyVgd1gIl+LLsxbdzRCch773UBVoortPdK3kMyLtZ4uMeDX3comjx+6VL bztUdJ1Zc9/njwVG8fgmQ+0Kj5+bzQfUY+MmX0HTXIx3B4R1I1a8QoOwi1N+iZNdewV5Zfq+ 29NlQLnVPjCRCKbaz9k6RJ2oIti55YUI6zSsL3lmlOXsRbXN5bRswFczkNSCJxJMlDiyAUIC WOay7ymzvgzPa+BY/mYn94vRaurDQ4/ljOfj6oqgfjts+dJev4Jj89vp8MQI3KJpZPEAEQEA AYkCJQQYAQIADwUCTmyjaAIbDAUJEswDAAAKCRCuJQ1VHU50km4xEACho45PZrUjY4Zl2opR DFNo5a6roTOPpgwO9PcBb3I5F8yX2Dnew+9OhgWXbBhAFq4DCx+9Gjs43Bn60qbZTDbLGJ/m 8N4PwEiq0e5MKceYcbetEdEUWhm5L6psU9ZZ82GR3UGxPXYe+oifEoJjOXQ39avf9S8p3yKP Diil0E79rn7LbJjMcgMLyjFg9SDoJ6pHLtniJoDhEAaSSgeV7Y745+gyMIdtQmrFHfqrFdjq D6G0HE+Z68ywc5KN67YxhvhBmSycs1ZSKAXv1zLDlXdmjHDHkU3xMcB+RkuiTba8yRFYwb/n j62CC4NhFTuIKOc4ta3dJsyXTGh/hO9UjWUnmAGfd0fnzTBZF8Qlnw/8ftx5lt4/O+eqY1EN RITScnPzXE/wMOlTtdkddQ+QN6xt6jyR2XtAIi7aAFHypIqA3lLI9hF9x+lj4UQ2yA9LqpoX 6URpPOd13JhAyDe47cwsP1u9Y+OBvQTVLSvw7Liu2b4KjqL4lx++VdBi7dXsjJ6kjIRjI6Lb WVpxe8LumMCuVDepTafBZ49gr7Fgc4F9ZSCo6ChgQNLn6WDzIkqFX+42KuHz90AHWhuW+KZR 1aJylERWeTcMCGUSBptd48KniWmD6kPKpzwoMkJtEXTuO2lVuborxzwuqOTNuYg9lWDl7zKt wPI9brGzquUHy4qRrA== Message-ID: <17b63259-2227-3494-4d3e-5411048e2ca2@si6networks.com> Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 22:10:30 -0300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2019 01:18:40 -0000 On 6/12/19 20:55, otroan@employees.org wrote: >> * polling the mailing list instead of deciding (on your own) that the >> group wants to work on EH insertion, and, > > Which decision are you referring to? > I have certainly never decided that working group wants to work on header insertion. This is your note: https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ipv6/j177aiqH6G4XNTWWrRfpsV23IVg Then I re-asked: https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ipv6/12Qwp_eeQT2EmbUrSxBLL5HTcnM But you didn't respond. Suresh clarified there had not been any sort of adoption call: https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ipv6/Db6_SGfmeIDzaE56Ps5kUDCYEzY Then again we were debating the topic here: https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ipv6/56w4LQzYtkut43A46ADhW3dWT-Y The reality is that there has not been a call for adoption for any of these two documents. So.. I'm not sure what a say may the wg have on documents that are individual documents. On that ground, RFC8200 represents IETF consensus. And the spring documents should be complying with it. TO be honest, I have no idea what there is to debate here. > With regards to the documents, I believe I clarified the statement of the working group seeing no reason why both documents couldn't be continue to be worked on. The wg doesn't have a say on individual documents. So, yes, both documents can continue to be worked on as much as I can continue "working" on my BBQ. Whatever the opinion of the wg, authors can work on individual I-Ds as much as they please. For the wg to have a say, I guess there has to be a conversation about adoption. But such conversation hasn't taken place. (Me, myself, I'd find it amusing to see the wg have two documents, one that says "this is evil", and another about "doing evil" :-) But that's of course a personal view). > Those documents are not adopted, nor has any decision about adoption been made, nor is any adoption call of those documents planned. > > I certainly don't want us as a group or myself personally to be working on header insertion. > You might not be alone, but you certainly keep repeatedly forcing the working group to consider the issue. And here we go again, for the Nth time: a big part of this thread came up because folks at the spring are violating our specs. So I have requested folks (including INT and RTG ADs), that the document remove all text that violates RFC8200. But then we see all this body of imagination of how they are not violating RFC8200 (when they are), you talking about the topic being nuanced and about "limited domains", etc. >> * complying with existing specifications unless there's formal consensus >> for them to be formally updated. > > I believe I have responded multiple times to this point. > I do not in principle see a conflict with specifying how header insertion can work in a specific case, > and the text in RFC8200. I would strongly oppose updating RFC8200, since header insertion is clearly > something that can only apply in specific use cases. You have a spec that explicitly forbids it, with as strong of a wording as available (it's not a "MUST NOT", because you and others opposed to having rfc2460bis employ RFC2119 language). EH-insertion goes against an explicitly forbidden behavior. Is not that you are playing in the MAY or SHOULD area. So an update is warranted if this is to happen. So yes, if you want to go against the spec, you have to update it. I don't think we publish specs for folks to then come an note why they have decided to violate them. And to the ocassional RFC reader, it will be a bit of a mess to sail through a bunch of documents where some specify behavior, and others simply do what they please. A formal update is also warranted because, otherwise, if I read RFC8200 (and there's no metadata that points to EH-insertion), I can assume that this packet mangling doesn't occur. But then if the same organization (IETF) publishes another document that says how to mangle with IPv6 packets, without any formal update of RFC8200, I have nothing signaling me to read it. Thanks, -- Fernando Gont SI6 Networks e-mail: fgont@si6networks.com PGP Fingerprint: 6666 31C6 D484 63B2 8FB1 E3C4 AE25 0D55 1D4E 7492 From nobody Fri Dec 6 17:38:17 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A15911201E5; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 17:38:08 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cq8Qjmyt-Bbk; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 17:38:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from fgont.go6lab.si (fgont.go6lab.si [91.239.96.14]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A336912010C; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 17:38:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.4.77] (unknown [190.179.35.56]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by fgont.go6lab.si (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4A38482BA7; Sat, 7 Dec 2019 02:37:57 +0100 (CET) To: Brian E Carpenter , Andrew Alston , Ole Troan Cc: Ron Bonica , SPRING WG , 6man <6man@ietf.org>, "int-ads@ietf.org" , rtg-ads , Bob Hinden References: <4255AD3B-379C-45BF-96E1-D3D9141A684F@liquidtelecom.com> From: Fernando Gont Autocrypt: addr=fgont@si6networks.com; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBE5so2gBEACzBQBLUy8nzgAzSZn6ViXT6TmZBFNYNqTpPRvTVtUqF6+tkI+IEd9N2E8p pXUXCd0W4dkxz6o7pagnK63m4QSueggvp881RVVHOF8oTSHOdnGxLfLeLNJFKE1FOutU3vod GK/wG/Fwzkv9MebdXpMlLV8nnJuAt66XGl/lU1JrNfrKO4SoYQi4TsB/waUQcygh7OR/PEO0 EttiU8kZUbZNv58WH+PAj/rdZCrgUSiGXiWUQQKShqKnJxLuAcTcg5YRwL8se/V6ciW0QR9i /sr52gSmLLbW5N3hAoO+nv1V/9SjJAUvzXu43k8sua/XlCXkqU7uLj41CRR72JeUZ4DQsYfP LfNPC98ZGTVxbWbFtLXxpzzDDT8i3uo7w1LJ2Ij/d5ezcARqw01HGljWWxnidUrjbTpxkJ9X EllcsH94mer728j/HKzC9OcTuz6WUBP3Crgl6Q47gY5ZIiF0lsmd9/wxbaq5NiJ+lGuBRZrD v0dQx9KmyI0/pH2AF8cW897/6ypvcyD/1/11CJcN+uAGIrklwJlVpRSbKbFtGC6In592lhu7 wnK8cgyP5cTU+vva9+g6P1wehi4bylXdlKc6mMphbtSA+T3WBNP557+mh3L62l4pGaEGidcZ DLYT2Ud18eAJmxU3HnM8P3iZZgeoK7oqgb53/eg96vkONXNIOwARAQABtCVGZXJuYW5kbyBH b250IDxmZ29udEBzaTZuZXR3b3Jrcy5jb20+iQJBBBMBAgArAhsjBQkSzAMABgsJCAcDAgYV CAIJCgsEFgIDAQIeAQIXgAUCTmylpQIZAQAKCRCuJQ1VHU50kv7wD/9fuNtTfxSLk3B3Hs3p ixTy8YXVjdkVwWlnJjFd7BOWmg7sI+LDhpjGfT6+ddOiwkumnvUZpObodj4ysH0i8c7P4C5t F9yu7WjklSlrB5Rth2CGChg5bKt541z2WHkFFxys9qBLmCSYDeKQkzLqhCjIUJizY2kOJ2GI MnSFDzJjhSFEh//oW830Y8fel1xnf/NVF+lBVtRMtMOfoWUqDjvP3sJ1G4zgkDCnF0CfncLx +hq2Mv26Uq9OTzvLH9aSQQ/f067BOkKAJKsfHdborX4E96ISTz57/4xECRSMr5dVsKVm4Y// uVIsb+L5z+a32FaiBZIAKDgnJO7Z8j6CV5e5yfuBTtX52Yi9HjYYqnYJGSDxYd6igD4bWu+7 xmJPHjkdqZgGV6dQIgiUfqkU+s5Cv350vK48CMaT/ZLo2BdsMhWsmaHmb+waePUMyq6E4E9x 9Js+EJb9ZiCfxS9exgieZQpet1L36IvhiwByvkQM009ywfa30JeMOltUtfLi5V06WQWsTzPL 5C+4cpkguSuAJVDTctjCA0moIeVDOpJ8WH9voQ4IeWapQnX35OIoj1jGJqqYdx65gc1ygbyx b8vw+pJ9E5GLse5TQnYifOWpXzX9053dtbwp/2OVhU4KLlzfCPCEsoTyfu9nIZxdI2PMwiL5 M85BfjX4NmwBLmPGoLkCDQRObKNoARAAqqXCkr250BchRDmi+05F5UQFgylUh10XTAJxBeaQ UNtdxZiZRm6jgomSrqeYtricM9t9K0qb4X2ZXmAMW8o8AYW3RrQHTjcBwMnAKzUIEXXWaLfG cid/ygmvWzIHgMDQKP+MUq1AGQrnvt/MRLvZLyczAV1RTXS58qNaxtaSpc3K/yrDozh/a4pu WcUsVvIkzyx43sqcwamDSBb6U8JFoZizuLXiARLLASgyHrrCedNIZdWSx0z0iHEpZIelA2ih AGLiSMtmtikVEyrJICgO81DkKNCbBbPg+7fi23V6M24+3syHk3IdQibTtBMxinIPyLFF0byJ aGm0fmjefhnmVJyCIl/FDkCHprVhTme57G2/WdoGnUvnT7mcwDRb8XY5nNRkOJsqqLPemKjz kx8mXdQbunXtX9bKyVgd1gIl+LLsxbdzRCch773UBVoortPdK3kMyLtZ4uMeDX3comjx+6VL bztUdJ1Zc9/njwVG8fgmQ+0Kj5+bzQfUY+MmX0HTXIx3B4R1I1a8QoOwi1N+iZNdewV5Zfq+ 29NlQLnVPjCRCKbaz9k6RJ2oIti55YUI6zSsL3lmlOXsRbXN5bRswFczkNSCJxJMlDiyAUIC WOay7ymzvgzPa+BY/mYn94vRaurDQ4/ljOfj6oqgfjts+dJev4Jj89vp8MQI3KJpZPEAEQEA AYkCJQQYAQIADwUCTmyjaAIbDAUJEswDAAAKCRCuJQ1VHU50km4xEACho45PZrUjY4Zl2opR DFNo5a6roTOPpgwO9PcBb3I5F8yX2Dnew+9OhgWXbBhAFq4DCx+9Gjs43Bn60qbZTDbLGJ/m 8N4PwEiq0e5MKceYcbetEdEUWhm5L6psU9ZZ82GR3UGxPXYe+oifEoJjOXQ39avf9S8p3yKP Diil0E79rn7LbJjMcgMLyjFg9SDoJ6pHLtniJoDhEAaSSgeV7Y745+gyMIdtQmrFHfqrFdjq D6G0HE+Z68ywc5KN67YxhvhBmSycs1ZSKAXv1zLDlXdmjHDHkU3xMcB+RkuiTba8yRFYwb/n j62CC4NhFTuIKOc4ta3dJsyXTGh/hO9UjWUnmAGfd0fnzTBZF8Qlnw/8ftx5lt4/O+eqY1EN RITScnPzXE/wMOlTtdkddQ+QN6xt6jyR2XtAIi7aAFHypIqA3lLI9hF9x+lj4UQ2yA9LqpoX 6URpPOd13JhAyDe47cwsP1u9Y+OBvQTVLSvw7Liu2b4KjqL4lx++VdBi7dXsjJ6kjIRjI6Lb WVpxe8LumMCuVDepTafBZ49gr7Fgc4F9ZSCo6ChgQNLn6WDzIkqFX+42KuHz90AHWhuW+KZR 1aJylERWeTcMCGUSBptd48KniWmD6kPKpzwoMkJtEXTuO2lVuborxzwuqOTNuYg9lWDl7zKt wPI9brGzquUHy4qRrA== Message-ID: <3bce7b18-ea45-d29f-5dfb-1d3258b07d1e@si6networks.com> Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 22:37:27 -0300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2019 01:38:11 -0000 On 6/12/19 22:15, Brian E Carpenter wrote: [...] > >> and if such a thing is required, an update to RFC8200 should be done. > > Why does that follow? Alternatively, draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming could acknowledge that it deviates from RFC8200. You can deviate from s "should", not from a "must". This is an outright violation of a spec, rather than a mere "deviation". > Whether that's acceptable would be a question for the IETF Last Call rather than any single WG. I would expect that a WG cannot ship a document that is violating an existing spec, where the wg shipping the document is not in a position of making decisions regarding the spec being violated. That would be like a waste of energy and time for all. > At the moment, the draft only mentions RFC8200 in a context that discusses neither insertion nor removal of extension headers, which is beside the point. Like draft-voyer, if it describes a violation of RFC8200, shouldn't that be explicit in the text? > > There's a lot of jargon in draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming. I can't tell from the jargon whether "insert" means "insert on the fly" and whether "Pop the SRH" means "delete on the fly". Should those terms be clarified before the draft advances? Well, if it's not clear to you, it would seem to me that the simple answer would be "yes". -- Fernando Gont SI6 Networks e-mail: fgont@si6networks.com PGP Fingerprint: 6666 31C6 D484 63B2 8FB1 E3C4 AE25 0D55 1D4E 7492 From nobody Fri Dec 6 18:48:09 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B856D120110; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 18:48:03 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id T843JRLCs4HV; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 18:48:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pf1-x442.google.com (mail-pf1-x442.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::442]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D8F511200C4; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 18:48:01 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pf1-x442.google.com with SMTP id q8so4310031pfh.7; Fri, 06 Dec 2019 18:48:01 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=XV3Zh/6r+8DS4/js0lrj0K2qNwUGkz3zRYHUAdX8QWA=; b=TQ5xYN1qE5aS+h+kVVL0cTCVrEP9L+x04mpgUMPYPcWCQbC2CAvUstEz6ZRx8+xaW0 6Ts5YospyejUZfZGhG7E94Ewx77djNqerODWvMxmPEnUgC+wvB3qPI1/nUfxQplfED1h vgJJWdR0uUSPchRwp7TiNQ4qLQSINGkRP3cX8q2gcy5QESuQeUVi3hlIQnxGKw3ZOT32 /kyQpnbJdtu7Lhr++KZIUazqvTHKOilB1FLjdHjcUTFNO+jwfxYZYfQ/qlhZZhF1kPBl PZoFXpAipUBcOrE/k12ZzyQ8O5IBPkXKRB3Zu8iuz9/OuxdjiKZ1OHu2cawnfO2FYhBh Wmxw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=XV3Zh/6r+8DS4/js0lrj0K2qNwUGkz3zRYHUAdX8QWA=; b=nqf4R8pNn6erRa0Jl3mMSwGzyOFW1Rmf0MmwyjksClKRx10TfD5gBcoa7tgvD9MPHh nroAKaEAktRKy383HMY8hYwW0XCx2RSGVwHdEcFnPFgbPsqWs4Jz+9WPUArPBFUuxUIw PBTUjl60INWzxIQNrXX8Nf7DBYZ0BCl2JTtkhOgbLwtLIJUBNL+UKetTtlQb7AuR+AaY lTUrYapU1QnyiCdxaw+EnjloKAktW7d5Ky2HZDsBOpHxw6T0BCPCEIl60Y2lqBT7D+82 KddCMcZSNCzVWT+azEFDTc2/OGMWL+RLQkC3/sdacV5dXXdrQh9QEWxJ43WB3hkpZ2MX 7W2Q== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUXViZIM/W/eh5kIxiz8+IVJc/Rwi8KjadUcsgmoBcFOOZVumPU 91nwBymdKoSVqgk5PNJs44W01tHO X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqy6Vxe7ZdldNvmg7+rer3+kBMZ08mW3JriyUu4M+ptloXaq5alH4KyFqypL9LPU4VNtL6H6eA== X-Received: by 2002:a62:e30f:: with SMTP id g15mr17553770pfh.124.1575686881383; Fri, 06 Dec 2019 18:48:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.178.30] (228.147.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz. [111.69.147.228]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id p24sm17368501pff.69.2019.12.06.18.47.57 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 06 Dec 2019 18:48:00 -0800 (PST) To: Fernando Gont , Andrew Alston , Ole Troan Cc: Ron Bonica , SPRING WG , 6man <6man@ietf.org>, "int-ads@ietf.org" , rtg-ads , Bob Hinden References: <4255AD3B-379C-45BF-96E1-D3D9141A684F@liquidtelecom.com> <3bce7b18-ea45-d29f-5dfb-1d3258b07d1e@si6networks.com> From: Brian E Carpenter Message-ID: Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2019 15:47:53 +1300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <3bce7b18-ea45-d29f-5dfb-1d3258b07d1e@si6networks.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2019 02:48:04 -0000 Again, comment at the end... On 07-Dec-19 14:37, Fernando Gont wrote: > On 6/12/19 22:15, Brian E Carpenter wrote: > [...] >> >>> and if such a thing is required, an update to RFC8200 should be done. >> >> Why does that follow? Alternatively, draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming could acknowledge that it deviates from RFC8200. > > You can deviate from s "should", not from a "must". This is an outright > violation of a spec, rather than a mere "deviation". > > >> Whether that's acceptable would be a question for the IETF Last Call rather than any single WG. > > I would expect that a WG cannot ship a document that is violating an > existing spec, where the wg shipping the document is not in a position > of making decisions regarding the spec being violated. > > That would be like a waste of energy and time for all. > > > >> At the moment, the draft only mentions RFC8200 in a context that discusses neither insertion nor removal of extension headers, which is beside the point. Like draft-voyer, if it describes a violation of RFC8200, shouldn't that be explicit in the text? >> >> There's a lot of jargon in draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming. I can't tell from the jargon whether "insert" means "insert on the fly" and whether "Pop the SRH" means "delete on the fly". Should those terms be clarified before the draft advances? > > Well, if it's not clear to you, it would seem to me that the simple > answer would be "yes". But if "insert" refers to the encapsulating node at the SR domain ingress, it's no problem, and if "pop" simply means doing normal routing header processing, it's no problem. It simply isn't clear in the text, at least not clear to me. Brian From nobody Fri Dec 6 19:09:11 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A911B120113; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 19:09:08 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id L8KC7_Eh20DI; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 19:09:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from fgont.go6lab.si (fgont.go6lab.si [91.239.96.14]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 123741200C4; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 19:09:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.4.77] (unknown [190.179.35.56]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by fgont.go6lab.si (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1C14586107; Sat, 7 Dec 2019 04:08:59 +0100 (CET) To: Brian E Carpenter , Andrew Alston , Ole Troan Cc: Ron Bonica , SPRING WG , 6man <6man@ietf.org>, "int-ads@ietf.org" , rtg-ads , Bob Hinden References: <4255AD3B-379C-45BF-96E1-D3D9141A684F@liquidtelecom.com> <3bce7b18-ea45-d29f-5dfb-1d3258b07d1e@si6networks.com> From: Fernando Gont Autocrypt: addr=fgont@si6networks.com; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBE5so2gBEACzBQBLUy8nzgAzSZn6ViXT6TmZBFNYNqTpPRvTVtUqF6+tkI+IEd9N2E8p pXUXCd0W4dkxz6o7pagnK63m4QSueggvp881RVVHOF8oTSHOdnGxLfLeLNJFKE1FOutU3vod GK/wG/Fwzkv9MebdXpMlLV8nnJuAt66XGl/lU1JrNfrKO4SoYQi4TsB/waUQcygh7OR/PEO0 EttiU8kZUbZNv58WH+PAj/rdZCrgUSiGXiWUQQKShqKnJxLuAcTcg5YRwL8se/V6ciW0QR9i /sr52gSmLLbW5N3hAoO+nv1V/9SjJAUvzXu43k8sua/XlCXkqU7uLj41CRR72JeUZ4DQsYfP LfNPC98ZGTVxbWbFtLXxpzzDDT8i3uo7w1LJ2Ij/d5ezcARqw01HGljWWxnidUrjbTpxkJ9X EllcsH94mer728j/HKzC9OcTuz6WUBP3Crgl6Q47gY5ZIiF0lsmd9/wxbaq5NiJ+lGuBRZrD v0dQx9KmyI0/pH2AF8cW897/6ypvcyD/1/11CJcN+uAGIrklwJlVpRSbKbFtGC6In592lhu7 wnK8cgyP5cTU+vva9+g6P1wehi4bylXdlKc6mMphbtSA+T3WBNP557+mh3L62l4pGaEGidcZ DLYT2Ud18eAJmxU3HnM8P3iZZgeoK7oqgb53/eg96vkONXNIOwARAQABtCVGZXJuYW5kbyBH b250IDxmZ29udEBzaTZuZXR3b3Jrcy5jb20+iQJBBBMBAgArAhsjBQkSzAMABgsJCAcDAgYV CAIJCgsEFgIDAQIeAQIXgAUCTmylpQIZAQAKCRCuJQ1VHU50kv7wD/9fuNtTfxSLk3B3Hs3p ixTy8YXVjdkVwWlnJjFd7BOWmg7sI+LDhpjGfT6+ddOiwkumnvUZpObodj4ysH0i8c7P4C5t F9yu7WjklSlrB5Rth2CGChg5bKt541z2WHkFFxys9qBLmCSYDeKQkzLqhCjIUJizY2kOJ2GI MnSFDzJjhSFEh//oW830Y8fel1xnf/NVF+lBVtRMtMOfoWUqDjvP3sJ1G4zgkDCnF0CfncLx +hq2Mv26Uq9OTzvLH9aSQQ/f067BOkKAJKsfHdborX4E96ISTz57/4xECRSMr5dVsKVm4Y// uVIsb+L5z+a32FaiBZIAKDgnJO7Z8j6CV5e5yfuBTtX52Yi9HjYYqnYJGSDxYd6igD4bWu+7 xmJPHjkdqZgGV6dQIgiUfqkU+s5Cv350vK48CMaT/ZLo2BdsMhWsmaHmb+waePUMyq6E4E9x 9Js+EJb9ZiCfxS9exgieZQpet1L36IvhiwByvkQM009ywfa30JeMOltUtfLi5V06WQWsTzPL 5C+4cpkguSuAJVDTctjCA0moIeVDOpJ8WH9voQ4IeWapQnX35OIoj1jGJqqYdx65gc1ygbyx b8vw+pJ9E5GLse5TQnYifOWpXzX9053dtbwp/2OVhU4KLlzfCPCEsoTyfu9nIZxdI2PMwiL5 M85BfjX4NmwBLmPGoLkCDQRObKNoARAAqqXCkr250BchRDmi+05F5UQFgylUh10XTAJxBeaQ UNtdxZiZRm6jgomSrqeYtricM9t9K0qb4X2ZXmAMW8o8AYW3RrQHTjcBwMnAKzUIEXXWaLfG cid/ygmvWzIHgMDQKP+MUq1AGQrnvt/MRLvZLyczAV1RTXS58qNaxtaSpc3K/yrDozh/a4pu WcUsVvIkzyx43sqcwamDSBb6U8JFoZizuLXiARLLASgyHrrCedNIZdWSx0z0iHEpZIelA2ih AGLiSMtmtikVEyrJICgO81DkKNCbBbPg+7fi23V6M24+3syHk3IdQibTtBMxinIPyLFF0byJ aGm0fmjefhnmVJyCIl/FDkCHprVhTme57G2/WdoGnUvnT7mcwDRb8XY5nNRkOJsqqLPemKjz kx8mXdQbunXtX9bKyVgd1gIl+LLsxbdzRCch773UBVoortPdK3kMyLtZ4uMeDX3comjx+6VL bztUdJ1Zc9/njwVG8fgmQ+0Kj5+bzQfUY+MmX0HTXIx3B4R1I1a8QoOwi1N+iZNdewV5Zfq+ 29NlQLnVPjCRCKbaz9k6RJ2oIti55YUI6zSsL3lmlOXsRbXN5bRswFczkNSCJxJMlDiyAUIC WOay7ymzvgzPa+BY/mYn94vRaurDQ4/ljOfj6oqgfjts+dJev4Jj89vp8MQI3KJpZPEAEQEA AYkCJQQYAQIADwUCTmyjaAIbDAUJEswDAAAKCRCuJQ1VHU50km4xEACho45PZrUjY4Zl2opR DFNo5a6roTOPpgwO9PcBb3I5F8yX2Dnew+9OhgWXbBhAFq4DCx+9Gjs43Bn60qbZTDbLGJ/m 8N4PwEiq0e5MKceYcbetEdEUWhm5L6psU9ZZ82GR3UGxPXYe+oifEoJjOXQ39avf9S8p3yKP Diil0E79rn7LbJjMcgMLyjFg9SDoJ6pHLtniJoDhEAaSSgeV7Y745+gyMIdtQmrFHfqrFdjq D6G0HE+Z68ywc5KN67YxhvhBmSycs1ZSKAXv1zLDlXdmjHDHkU3xMcB+RkuiTba8yRFYwb/n j62CC4NhFTuIKOc4ta3dJsyXTGh/hO9UjWUnmAGfd0fnzTBZF8Qlnw/8ftx5lt4/O+eqY1EN RITScnPzXE/wMOlTtdkddQ+QN6xt6jyR2XtAIi7aAFHypIqA3lLI9hF9x+lj4UQ2yA9LqpoX 6URpPOd13JhAyDe47cwsP1u9Y+OBvQTVLSvw7Liu2b4KjqL4lx++VdBi7dXsjJ6kjIRjI6Lb WVpxe8LumMCuVDepTafBZ49gr7Fgc4F9ZSCo6ChgQNLn6WDzIkqFX+42KuHz90AHWhuW+KZR 1aJylERWeTcMCGUSBptd48KniWmD6kPKpzwoMkJtEXTuO2lVuborxzwuqOTNuYg9lWDl7zKt wPI9brGzquUHy4qRrA== Message-ID: Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2019 00:07:08 -0300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2019 03:09:09 -0000 On 6/12/19 23:47, Brian E Carpenter wrote: > Again, comment at the end... > On 07-Dec-19 14:37, Fernando Gont wrote: >> On 6/12/19 22:15, Brian E Carpenter wrote: >> [...] >>> >>>> and if such a thing is required, an update to RFC8200 should be done. >>> >>> Why does that follow? Alternatively, draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming could acknowledge that it deviates from RFC8200. >> >> You can deviate from s "should", not from a "must". This is an outright >> violation of a spec, rather than a mere "deviation". >> >> >>> Whether that's acceptable would be a question for the IETF Last Call rather than any single WG. >> >> I would expect that a WG cannot ship a document that is violating an >> existing spec, where the wg shipping the document is not in a position >> of making decisions regarding the spec being violated. >> >> That would be like a waste of energy and time for all. >> >> >> >>> At the moment, the draft only mentions RFC8200 in a context that discusses neither insertion nor removal of extension headers, which is beside the point. Like draft-voyer, if it describes a violation of RFC8200, shouldn't that be explicit in the text? >>> >>> There's a lot of jargon in draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming. I can't tell from the jargon whether "insert" means "insert on the fly" and whether "Pop the SRH" means "delete on the fly". Should those terms be clarified before the draft advances? >> >> Well, if it's not clear to you, it would seem to me that the simple >> answer would be "yes". > > But if "insert" refers to the encapsulating node at the SR domain ingress, it's no problem, and if "pop" simply means doing normal routing header processing, it's no problem. It simply isn't clear in the text, at least not clear to me. The fact that a folk that has been deeply involved with IPv6 cannot unequivocally tell what they talking about should be an indication with respect to how ready the document is to be shipped. (pop when you are the destination but SL!=0 is essentially 'in the network removal') THanks, -- Fernando Gont SI6 Networks e-mail: fgont@si6networks.com PGP Fingerprint: 6666 31C6 D484 63B2 8FB1 E3C4 AE25 0D55 1D4E 7492 From nobody Fri Dec 6 23:13:52 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7D0B120120; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 23:13:43 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=kaloom.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) 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boundary="000000000000298f1305991bb9da" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2019 11:47:16 -0000 --000000000000298f1305991bb9da Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hey Fernando, (pop when you are the destination but SL!=0 is essentially 'in the > network removal') I was trying to stay out of this but I have one fundamental question or observation this entire debate seems to be about. In the context of SRv6 there are two parallel discussions *Discussion #1* - It is about inserting, modifying or deleting SRH by nodes which are not in the outer IPv6 header of the packet *Discussion #2* - It is about RFC8200 compliance when the node doing insertion of SRH is *the* destination of the packet as read verbatim from the outer IPv6 header. *Discussion #3* - It is about RFC8200 compliance when the node doing modification or removal of SRH is *the* destination of the packet as read verbatim from the outer IPv6 header. First let's observe that RFC8200 is only defining the behaviour regarding EH processing in the context of destination address of the IPv6 outer header: "identified in the Destination Address field of the IPv6 header.identified in the Destination Address field of the IPv6 header. " Therefore stating that SL value before local decrement matters in this in respect to being compliant to the IPv6 RFC is at best just an individual interpretation. Besides the pseudocode says it black and white "S14.1. If (updated SL == 0) {". We do all sort of processing decision after decrementing the values ... think TTL :) So back to reality ... *Discussion #1* - I think we all agree that to accomplish that RFC8200 would need to be updated. *Discussion #2* - I think we also all agree here that to accomplish this RFC8200 would need to be updated as it does says clearly that "Each extension header should occur at most once, ..." *Discussion #3* - It seems clearly that there is no issue with compliance with RFC8200 and that if penultimate segment midpoint decides or is instructed to pop SRH it sure can and still be 100% compliant with current wording of RFC8200. So other then so much foam what is this debate all about ? Cheers, Robert. --000000000000298f1305991bb9da Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hey=C2=A0Fernando,

= (pop when you are the destination but SL!=3D0 is essentially 'in the network removal')

I was trying to stay = out of this but I have one fundamental question or observation this entire = debate seems to be about.=C2=A0

In the context of = SRv6 there are two parallel discussions=C2=A0

D= iscussion #1 - It is about inserting, modifying=C2=A0or deleting SRH by= nodes which are not in the outer IPv6 header of the packet=C2=A0

Discussion #2 - It is about RFC8200 compliance when = the node doing insertion of SRH is *the* destination of the packet as read = verbatim from the outer IPv6 header.=C2=A0

Discussion #3 - It is about RFC8200 compliance when the node doing mod= ification or removal of SRH is *the* destination of the packet as read verb= atim from the outer IPv6 header.=C2=A0

First let's observe that RFC8200 is only defining the behaviour r= egarding EH processing in the context of destination address of the IPv6 ou= ter header: "identified in the Destination Address field of the IPv6 h= eader.identified in the Destination Address field of the IPv6 header. "= ;

Therefore stating that SL value before local dec= rement matters in this in respect to being compliant=C2=A0to the IPv6 RFC i= s at best just an individual interpretation. Besides the pseudocode says it= black and white "S14.1. =C2=A0 If (updated SL =3D=3D 0) {". We d= o all sort of processing decision after decrementing the values ... think T= TL :)=C2=A0

So back to reality ...=C2=A0

Discussion #1 - I think we all agree that to accompl= ish that RFC8200 would need to be updated.

Disc= ussion #2 - I think we also all agree here that to accomplish this RFC8= 200 would need to be updated as it does says clearly that "Each extens= ion header should occur at most once, ..."

Discussion #3 - It seems clearly that there is no issue with complianc= e with RFC8200 and that if penultimate segment midpoint decides or is instr= ucted to pop SRH it sure can and still be 100% compliant=C2=A0with current = wording of RFC8200.=C2=A0

So other then so much fo= am what is this debate all about ?=C2=A0

Cheers,
Robert.

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boundary="_000_BN7PR05MB5699332DB006C82F51553C5EAE5E0BN7PR05MB5699namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 400b3d3e-d2c3-487c-da4c-08d77b0e614e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 07 Dec 2019 12:09:58.6771 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: tltZWXRSEjNaLpmml5nIMKMQ3Rc8iIwz3JjA/MZeG3QxEA03TGQyjJqLiAMkEDRe7Rpbt5kmry8NMjIUxDStbQ== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN7PR05MB4225 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.95,18.0.572 definitions=2019-12-07_03:2019-12-05,2019-12-07 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_spam_notspam policy=outbound_spam score=0 mlxscore=0 priorityscore=1501 bulkscore=0 phishscore=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 clxscore=1011 impostorscore=0 spamscore=0 adultscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 lowpriorityscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-1910280000 definitions=main-1912070104 Archived-At: Subject: [spring] PHP - Deep Listening (was: RE: Separating issues) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2019 12:10:10 -0000 --_000_BN7PR05MB5699332DB006C82F51553C5EAE5E0BN7PR05MB5699namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Suresh, Fair enough. Let's review PHP, with open minds, and see if the motivation m= erits the proposed behavior.... Assume that an SRv6 node receives the following packet: * IPv6 header. Destination Address =3D=3D LOCATOR:0x0002 (0x0002 indica= tes that this is and end with PSP) * IPv6 header. Next Header =3D=3D Routing Header * Routing header. Routing Type =3D=3D SRH * Routing header. Segments Left =3D=3D 1 According to the NP draft, the nodes should: * Copy SID[0] to IPv6 header. Destination Address * Update IPv6 header. Next Header * Update IPv6 header, Payload Length * Remove the Routing Header Now that we understand how PHP works, we can compare PHP to a more orthodox= alternative. That is, to decrement Segments Left (to 0) and forward the pa= cket without PHP. Downstream nodes SHOULD ignore the SRH, because Segments = Left is equal to 0. The following are possible benefits of PHP: * To save bandwidth on the final segment * To optimize for ASIC some particular ASIC on the destination node, po= ssibly mitigating the effect of a very large SRH * Others? Do either of these motivations merit the variation from the more orthodox I= Pv6 processing? Ron Juniper Business Use Only From: Suresh Krishnan Sent: Saturday, December 7, 2019 2:14 AM To: 6man <6man@ietf.org>; SPRING WG Cc: Brian E Carpenter ; Andrew Alston ; Ole Troan ; Ron Bonica ; int-ads@ietf.org; rtg-ads ; Bob Hinde= n ; Fernando Gont Subject: Separating issues (was Re: [spring] We don't seem to be following = our processes (Re: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping)) (Apologies up front. I am about to get on a 10 hr flight and will be unable= to respond for at least that period) Hi all, Picking the last message in the thread to reply to. It looks to me that t= here are at least two different (but related) issues being discussed here a) Spring SRv6 NP behavior (related to the WGLC of that draft) b) The Header insertion drafts and how to deal with them I really think that a) should preferably stay in the spring ML and a pointer to the discussion = sent to the 6man mailing list would be in order b) should preferably stay in the 6man ML I think the communities for the two drafts are different and I think the di= scussions can be more focused if the issues are addressed by the relevant w= gs. As to what happens if the spring draft hits the IESG and contains text = in violation of RFC8200, I had already sent my thoughts about this back in = September https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/uA-WxxgBJeMu65SkrKCTL5BJMcU with the relevant text "If a draft violates RFC8200 and it hits the IESG for evaluation, I will ce= rtainly hold a DISCUSS position until the violations are fixed." *In my view*, the authors of the SRv6 NP draft have made an effort to addre= ss these violations by removing the header insertion from the draft. We can= continue discussing whether penultimate hop popping constitutes a violatio= n on the spring mailing list (I intend to respond to Fernando'a mail there)= . Thanks Suresh On Dec 7, 2019, at 11:07 AM, Fernando Gont > wrote: On 6/12/19 23:47, Brian E Carpenter wrote: Again, comment at the end... On 07-Dec-19 14:37, Fernando Gont wrote: On 6/12/19 22:15, Brian E Carpenter wrote: [...] and if such a thing is required, an update to RFC8200 should be done. Why does that follow? Alternatively, draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-program= ming could acknowledge that it deviates from RFC8200. You can deviate from s "should", not from a "must". This is an outright violation of a spec, rather than a mere "deviation". Whether that's acceptable would be a question for the IETF Last Call rather= than any single WG. I would expect that a WG cannot ship a document that is violating an existing spec, where the wg shipping the document is not in a position of making decisions regarding the spec being violated. That would be like a waste of energy and time for all. At the moment, the draft only mentions RFC8200 in a context that discusses = neither insertion nor removal of extension headers, which is beside the poi= nt. Like draft-voyer, if it describes a violation of RFC8200, shouldn't tha= t be explicit in the text? There's a lot of jargon in draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming. I ca= n't tell from the jargon whether "insert" means "insert on the fly" and whe= ther "Pop the SRH" means "delete on the fly". Should those terms be clarifi= ed before the draft advances? Well, if it's not clear to you, it would seem to me that the simple answer would be "yes". But if "insert" refers to the encapsulating node at the SR domain ingress, = it's no problem, and if "pop" simply means doing normal routing header proc= essing, it's no problem. It simply isn't clear in the text, at least not cl= ear to me. The fact that a folk that has been deeply involved with IPv6 cannot unequivocally tell what they talking about should be an indication with respect to how ready the document is to be shipped. (pop when you are the destination but SL!=3D0 is essentially 'in the network removal') THanks, -- Fernando Gont SI6 Networks e-mail: fgont@si6networks.com PGP Fingerprint: 6666 31C6 D484 63B2 8FB1 E3C4 AE25 0D55 1D4E 7492 --_000_BN7PR05MB5699332DB006C82F51553C5EAE5E0BN7PR05MB5699namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Suresh,

 

Fair enough. Let’s review PHP, with open minds= , and see if the motivation merits the proposed behavior….=

 

Assume that an SRv6 node receives the following pack= et:

 

  • IPv6 header. Destination Address =3D=3D LOCATOR:0x0002 (0x0002 indica= tes that this is and end with PSP)
  • IPv6 header. Next H= eader =3D=3D Routing Header
  • Routing header. Routing Ty= pe  =3D=3D SRH
  • Routing header. Segments Left =3D= =3D 1

 

According to the NP draft, the nodes should:

 

  • Copy SID[0] to IPv6 header. Destination Address
  • = Update IPv6 header. Next Header
  • Update IPv6 header, Pa= yload Length
  • Remove the Routing Header
    • =

 

Now that we understand how PHP works, we can compare= PHP to a more orthodox alternative. That is, to decrement Segments Left (t= o 0) and forward the packet without PHP. Downstream nodes SHOULD ignore the= SRH, because Segments Left is equal to 0.

 

The following are possible benefits of PHP:

 

  • To save bandwidth on the final segment
  • To optimi= ze for ASIC some particular ASIC on the destination node, possibly mitigati= ng the effect of a very large SRH
  • Others?

 

Do either of these motivations merit the variation f= rom the more orthodox IPv6 processing?

 

        &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;            &nb= sp;    Ron

 

 

 

Juniper Business Use Only

From: Suresh Krishnan <Suresh@kaloom.com&g= t;
Sent: Saturday, December 7, 2019 2:14 AM
To: 6man <6man@ietf.org>; SPRING WG <spring@ietf.org> Cc: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>; Andrew Al= ston <Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com>; Ole Troan <otroan@employee= s.org>; Ron Bonica <rbonica@juniper.net>; int-ads@ietf.org; rtg-ad= s <rtg-ads@ietf.org>; Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com>; Fernando Gont <fgont@si6networks.com>
Subject: Separating issues (was Re: [spring] We don't seem to be fol= lowing our processes (Re: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping= ))

 

(Apologies up front. I am about to get on a 10 hr fl= ight and will be unable to respond for at least that period)

 

Hi all,

  Picking the last message in the thread to rep= ly to. It looks to me that there are at least two different (but related) i= ssues being discussed here

 

a) Spring SRv6 NP behavior (related to the WGLC of t= hat draft)

b) The Header insertion drafts and how to deal with = them

 

I really think that 

 

a) should preferably stay in the spring ML and a poi= nter to the discussion sent to the 6man mailing list would be in order=

b) should preferably stay in the 6man ML<= /p>

 

I think the communities for the two drafts are diffe= rent and I think the discussions can be more focused if the issues are addr= essed by the relevant wgs. As to what happens if the spring draft hits the = IESG and contains text in violation of RFC8200, I had already sent my thoughts about this back in September

 

 

with the relevant text 

 

"If a draft violates RFC8200 and it hits the IE= SG for evaluation, I will certainly hold a DISCUSS position until the viola= tions are fixed.”

 

*In my view*, the authors of the SRv6 NP draft have = made an effort to address these violations by removing the header insertion= from the draft. We can continue discussing whether penultimate hop popping= constitutes a violation on the spring mailing list (I intend to respond to Fernando’a mail there).

 

Thanks

Suresh

 

On Dec 7, 2019, at 11:07 AM, Fernando Gont <fgont@si6networks.com> wrote:

 

On 6/12/19 23:47, Bri= an E Carpenter wrote:

Again, comment at the= end...
On 07-Dec-19 14:37, Fernando Gont wrote:

On 6/12/19 22:15, Bri= an E Carpenter wrote:
[...]

 

and if such a thing is required, an update to RFC820= 0 should be done.


Why does that follow? Alternatively, draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-program= ming could acknowledge that it deviates from RFC8200.


You can deviate from s "should", not from a "must". Thi= s is an outright
violation of a spec, rather than a mere "deviation".


Whether that's acceptable would be a question for th= e IETF Last Call rather than any single WG.


I would expect that a WG cannot ship a document that is violating an
existing spec, where the wg shipping the document is not in a position
of making decisions regarding the spec being violated.

That would be like a waste of energy and time for all.



At the moment, the draft only mentions RFC8200 in a = context that discusses neither insertion nor removal of extension headers, = which is beside the point. Like draft-voyer, if it describes a violation of= RFC8200, shouldn't that be explicit in the text?

There's a lot of jargon in draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming. I ca= n't tell from the jargon whether "insert" means "insert on t= he fly" and whether "Pop the SRH" means "delete on the = fly". Should those terms be clarified before the draft advances?<= /o:p>


Well, if it's not clear to you, it would seem to me that the simple
answer would be "yes".


But if "insert" refers to the encapsulating node at the SR domain= ingress, it's no problem, and if "pop" simply means doing normal= routing header processing, it's no problem. It simply isn't clear in the t= ext, at least not clear to me.


The fact that a folk that has been deeply involved with IPv6 cannot
unequivocally tell what they talking about should be an indication with
respect to how ready the document is to be shipped.

(pop when you are the destination but SL!=3D0 is essentially 'in the
network removal')

THanks,
--
Fernando Gont
SI6 Networks
e-mail: fgont@si6networks.com<= br> PGP Fingerprint: 6666 31C6 D484 63B2 8FB1 E3C4 AE25 0D55 1D4E 7492


 

--_000_BN7PR05MB5699332DB006C82F51553C5EAE5E0BN7PR05MB5699namp_-- From nobody Sat Dec 7 06:13:44 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3D8E1200A4; Sat, 7 Dec 2019 06:13:37 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.632 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.632 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fmBZ8nYsqZFY; Sat, 7 Dec 2019 06:13:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from sainfoin-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (sainfoin-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr [132.167.192.228]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D519612001E; Sat, 7 Dec 2019 06:13:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by sainfoin-sys.extra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id xB7EDWvq032837; Sat, 7 Dec 2019 15:13:32 +0100 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id 77CB4200EC4; Sat, 7 Dec 2019 15:13:32 +0100 (CET) Received: from muguet2-smtp-out.intra.cea.fr (muguet2-smtp-out.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.13]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 600A8200BB4; Sat, 7 Dec 2019 15:13:32 +0100 (CET) Received: from [10.11.240.4] ([10.11.240.4]) by muguet2-sys.intra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id xB7EDVa4026580; Sat, 7 Dec 2019 15:13:31 +0100 From: Alexandre Petrescu To: Sander Steffann , Robert Raszuk Cc: rtg-ads , SPRING WG , 6man <6man@ietf.org>, "int-ads@ietf.org" References: <3AD3BD11-8C34-41FE-B88F-49A9F2561D78@cisco.com> <8DEDE597-B7B0-48F5-959E-69757315C2AC@employees.org> <4FAB68A3-C533-471D-94D0-3F6EB1F32FC1@employees.org> <1e36a492-5931-02de-cf85-63339522b13a@si6networks.com> <8A9BC46E-A018-41C0-BE47-4BABC30EFE79@employees.org> <20191205222740.GA9637@ernw.de> <741EB111-DA80-4895-A7E3-3B71836E6176@steffann.nl> Message-ID: <17f92692-9566-78f2-9d84-ba685b6ab63b@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2019 15:13:31 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <741EB111-DA80-4895-A7E3-3B71836E6176@steffann.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Language: fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2019 14:13:38 -0000 Le 06/12/2019 à 17:21, Sander Steffann a écrit : > Hi Robert, > >> To your specific first question this is very popular deployment >> model ... just look at SDWANs. So Internet is just a L3 transport >> for all routers in your administrative domain or global WAN. Spot >> on. I do sincerely hope that whatever the result be of this debate >> all features will be legal to run on my boxes regardless how I >> choose to interconnect them. >> >> As (Internet) transit boxes would never be destination addresses >> of the outermost header what problem do you see running anything >> one likes on R1 or R2 or R3 and transporting it via open Internet >> or perhaps some third party networks ? > > So this is basically a tunnel over the open internet with all tunnel > endpoints in the same (or cooperating) administrative domain. In > that case it's indeed up to the participants to deal with and debug. > > So the tunnel model I don't mind. Can we be certain it indeed fits > all deployments and leaking isn't possible. Theory and practice are > the same in theory, but not in practice :) YEs, a tunnel is a quantum leap between layers, a wormhole between Universes; a tunnel makes possible what otherwise can not be imagined: get restricted web content from a country as if one were there. The limited domain draft does set a perspective with respect to tunnels, although one might wonder whether questions like whether two limited domains connected by a tunnel make for a single limited domain (a reducibility principle). Alex > > Cheers, Sander > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative > Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > From nobody Sat Dec 7 06:32:27 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3ADD412026E; Sat, 7 Dec 2019 06:32:26 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bUxJNL87qz1x; Sat, 7 Dec 2019 06:32:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from fgont.go6lab.si (fgont.go6lab.si [91.239.96.14]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5736D120232; Sat, 7 Dec 2019 06:32:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.4.77] (unknown [190.179.35.56]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by fgont.go6lab.si (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7D527861C2; Sat, 7 Dec 2019 15:32:18 +0100 (CET) To: Suresh Krishnan , SPRING WG Cc: Ron Bonica , "int-ads@ietf.org" , Andrew Alston , rtg-ads , Bob Hinden , Ole Troan , Brian E Carpenter References: <4255AD3B-379C-45BF-96E1-D3D9141A684F@liquidtelecom.com> <3bce7b18-ea45-d29f-5dfb-1d3258b07d1e@si6networks.com> <80A78F48-9802-4DA9-B264-1A8920C1DDF9@kaloom.com> From: Fernando Gont Autocrypt: addr=fgont@si6networks.com; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBE5so2gBEACzBQBLUy8nzgAzSZn6ViXT6TmZBFNYNqTpPRvTVtUqF6+tkI+IEd9N2E8p pXUXCd0W4dkxz6o7pagnK63m4QSueggvp881RVVHOF8oTSHOdnGxLfLeLNJFKE1FOutU3vod GK/wG/Fwzkv9MebdXpMlLV8nnJuAt66XGl/lU1JrNfrKO4SoYQi4TsB/waUQcygh7OR/PEO0 EttiU8kZUbZNv58WH+PAj/rdZCrgUSiGXiWUQQKShqKnJxLuAcTcg5YRwL8se/V6ciW0QR9i /sr52gSmLLbW5N3hAoO+nv1V/9SjJAUvzXu43k8sua/XlCXkqU7uLj41CRR72JeUZ4DQsYfP LfNPC98ZGTVxbWbFtLXxpzzDDT8i3uo7w1LJ2Ij/d5ezcARqw01HGljWWxnidUrjbTpxkJ9X EllcsH94mer728j/HKzC9OcTuz6WUBP3Crgl6Q47gY5ZIiF0lsmd9/wxbaq5NiJ+lGuBRZrD v0dQx9KmyI0/pH2AF8cW897/6ypvcyD/1/11CJcN+uAGIrklwJlVpRSbKbFtGC6In592lhu7 wnK8cgyP5cTU+vva9+g6P1wehi4bylXdlKc6mMphbtSA+T3WBNP557+mh3L62l4pGaEGidcZ DLYT2Ud18eAJmxU3HnM8P3iZZgeoK7oqgb53/eg96vkONXNIOwARAQABtCVGZXJuYW5kbyBH b250IDxmZ29udEBzaTZuZXR3b3Jrcy5jb20+iQJBBBMBAgArAhsjBQkSzAMABgsJCAcDAgYV CAIJCgsEFgIDAQIeAQIXgAUCTmylpQIZAQAKCRCuJQ1VHU50kv7wD/9fuNtTfxSLk3B3Hs3p ixTy8YXVjdkVwWlnJjFd7BOWmg7sI+LDhpjGfT6+ddOiwkumnvUZpObodj4ysH0i8c7P4C5t F9yu7WjklSlrB5Rth2CGChg5bKt541z2WHkFFxys9qBLmCSYDeKQkzLqhCjIUJizY2kOJ2GI MnSFDzJjhSFEh//oW830Y8fel1xnf/NVF+lBVtRMtMOfoWUqDjvP3sJ1G4zgkDCnF0CfncLx +hq2Mv26Uq9OTzvLH9aSQQ/f067BOkKAJKsfHdborX4E96ISTz57/4xECRSMr5dVsKVm4Y// uVIsb+L5z+a32FaiBZIAKDgnJO7Z8j6CV5e5yfuBTtX52Yi9HjYYqnYJGSDxYd6igD4bWu+7 xmJPHjkdqZgGV6dQIgiUfqkU+s5Cv350vK48CMaT/ZLo2BdsMhWsmaHmb+waePUMyq6E4E9x 9Js+EJb9ZiCfxS9exgieZQpet1L36IvhiwByvkQM009ywfa30JeMOltUtfLi5V06WQWsTzPL 5C+4cpkguSuAJVDTctjCA0moIeVDOpJ8WH9voQ4IeWapQnX35OIoj1jGJqqYdx65gc1ygbyx b8vw+pJ9E5GLse5TQnYifOWpXzX9053dtbwp/2OVhU4KLlzfCPCEsoTyfu9nIZxdI2PMwiL5 M85BfjX4NmwBLmPGoLkCDQRObKNoARAAqqXCkr250BchRDmi+05F5UQFgylUh10XTAJxBeaQ UNtdxZiZRm6jgomSrqeYtricM9t9K0qb4X2ZXmAMW8o8AYW3RrQHTjcBwMnAKzUIEXXWaLfG cid/ygmvWzIHgMDQKP+MUq1AGQrnvt/MRLvZLyczAV1RTXS58qNaxtaSpc3K/yrDozh/a4pu WcUsVvIkzyx43sqcwamDSBb6U8JFoZizuLXiARLLASgyHrrCedNIZdWSx0z0iHEpZIelA2ih AGLiSMtmtikVEyrJICgO81DkKNCbBbPg+7fi23V6M24+3syHk3IdQibTtBMxinIPyLFF0byJ aGm0fmjefhnmVJyCIl/FDkCHprVhTme57G2/WdoGnUvnT7mcwDRb8XY5nNRkOJsqqLPemKjz kx8mXdQbunXtX9bKyVgd1gIl+LLsxbdzRCch773UBVoortPdK3kMyLtZ4uMeDX3comjx+6VL bztUdJ1Zc9/njwVG8fgmQ+0Kj5+bzQfUY+MmX0HTXIx3B4R1I1a8QoOwi1N+iZNdewV5Zfq+ 29NlQLnVPjCRCKbaz9k6RJ2oIti55YUI6zSsL3lmlOXsRbXN5bRswFczkNSCJxJMlDiyAUIC WOay7ymzvgzPa+BY/mYn94vRaurDQ4/ljOfj6oqgfjts+dJev4Jj89vp8MQI3KJpZPEAEQEA AYkCJQQYAQIADwUCTmyjaAIbDAUJEswDAAAKCRCuJQ1VHU50km4xEACho45PZrUjY4Zl2opR DFNo5a6roTOPpgwO9PcBb3I5F8yX2Dnew+9OhgWXbBhAFq4DCx+9Gjs43Bn60qbZTDbLGJ/m 8N4PwEiq0e5MKceYcbetEdEUWhm5L6psU9ZZ82GR3UGxPXYe+oifEoJjOXQ39avf9S8p3yKP Diil0E79rn7LbJjMcgMLyjFg9SDoJ6pHLtniJoDhEAaSSgeV7Y745+gyMIdtQmrFHfqrFdjq D6G0HE+Z68ywc5KN67YxhvhBmSycs1ZSKAXv1zLDlXdmjHDHkU3xMcB+RkuiTba8yRFYwb/n j62CC4NhFTuIKOc4ta3dJsyXTGh/hO9UjWUnmAGfd0fnzTBZF8Qlnw/8ftx5lt4/O+eqY1EN RITScnPzXE/wMOlTtdkddQ+QN6xt6jyR2XtAIi7aAFHypIqA3lLI9hF9x+lj4UQ2yA9LqpoX 6URpPOd13JhAyDe47cwsP1u9Y+OBvQTVLSvw7Liu2b4KjqL4lx++VdBi7dXsjJ6kjIRjI6Lb WVpxe8LumMCuVDepTafBZ49gr7Fgc4F9ZSCo6ChgQNLn6WDzIkqFX+42KuHz90AHWhuW+KZR 1aJylERWeTcMCGUSBptd48KniWmD6kPKpzwoMkJtEXTuO2lVuborxzwuqOTNuYg9lWDl7zKt wPI9brGzquUHy4qRrA== Message-ID: <6bc831ce-326f-3648-6e6f-4c715b2a49ac@si6networks.com> Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2019 11:31:59 -0300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <80A78F48-9802-4DA9-B264-1A8920C1DDF9@kaloom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Penultimate Segment Popping and RFC8200 (Was Re: We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping)) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2019 14:32:26 -0000 On 7/12/19 04:19, Suresh Krishnan wrote: > (responding on spring mailing list) > > Hi Fernando, > >> On Dec 7, 2019, at 11:07 AM, Fernando Gont > > wrote: >> >> On 6/12/19 23:47, Brian E Carpenter wrote: >>> Again, comment at the end... >>> On 07-Dec-19 14:37, Fernando Gont wrote: >>>> On 6/12/19 22:15, Brian E Carpenter wrote: >>>> [...] >>>>> >>>>>> and if such a thing is required, an update to RFC8200 should be done. >>>>> >>>>> Why does that follow? Alternatively, >>>>> draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming could acknowledge that >>>>> it deviates from RFC8200. >>>> >>>> You can deviate from s "should", not from a "must". This is an outright >>>> violation of a spec, rather than a mere "deviation". >>>> >>>> >>>>> Whether that's acceptable would be a question for the IETF Last >>>>> Call rather than any single WG. >>>> >>>> I would expect that a WG cannot ship a document that is violating an >>>> existing spec, where the wg shipping the document is not in a position >>>> of making decisions regarding the spec being violated. >>>> >>>> That would be like a waste of energy and time for all. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> At the moment, the draft only mentions RFC8200 in a context that >>>>> discusses neither insertion nor removal of extension headers, which >>>>> is beside the point. Like draft-voyer, if it describes a violation >>>>> of RFC8200, shouldn't that be explicit in the text? >>>>> >>>>> There's a lot of jargon in >>>>> draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming. I can't tell from the >>>>> jargon whether "insert" means "insert on the fly" and whether "Pop >>>>> the SRH" means "delete on the fly". Should those terms be clarified >>>>> before the draft advances? >>>> >>>> Well, if it's not clear to you, it would seem to me that the simple >>>> answer would be "yes". >>> >>> But if "insert" refers to the encapsulating node at the SR domain >>> ingress, it's no problem, and if "pop" simply means doing normal >>> routing header processing, it's no problem. It simply isn't clear in >>> the text, at least not clear to me. >> >> The fact that a folk that has been deeply involved with IPv6 cannot >> unequivocally tell what they talking about should be an indication with >> respect to how ready the document is to be shipped. >> >> (pop when you are the destination but SL!=0 is essentially 'in the >> network removal’) > > It is not obvious to me why you think this is a violation of RFC8200 > though it is possible that I misread your comment. The relevant text I > am looking at is > > "  Extension headers (except for the Hop-by-Hop Options header) are not >    processed, inserted, or deleted by any node along a packet's delivery >    path, until the packet reaches the node (or each of the set of nodes, >    in the case of multicast) identified in the Destination Address field >    of the IPv6 header.†> > which seems to permit it. Can you please clarify where there is a > violation? In the context of RFC8200, where the text you have quoted is present, can you tell me which address other than that of the final destination can be in the Destination Address of the packet? Thanks, -- Fernando Gont SI6 Networks e-mail: fgont@si6networks.com PGP Fingerprint: 6666 31C6 D484 63B2 8FB1 E3C4 AE25 0D55 1D4E 7492 From nobody Sat Dec 7 06:37:48 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A45F120289; Sat, 7 Dec 2019 06:37:46 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SoKHG_wHf5wl; Sat, 7 Dec 2019 06:37:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from fgont.go6lab.si (fgont.go6lab.si [91.239.96.14]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 20F70120288; Sat, 7 Dec 2019 06:37:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.4.77] (unknown [190.179.35.56]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by fgont.go6lab.si (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B81A182D96; Sat, 7 Dec 2019 15:37:39 +0100 (CET) To: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" , Suresh Krishnan , SPRING WG Cc: Ron Bonica , "int-ads@ietf.org" , Andrew Alston , rtg-ads , Bob Hinden , Ole Troan , Brian E Carpenter References: <4255AD3B-379C-45BF-96E1-D3D9141A684F@liquidtelecom.com> <3bce7b18-ea45-d29f-5dfb-1d3258b07d1e@si6networks.com> <80A78F48-9802-4DA9-B264-1A8920C1DDF9@kaloom.com> From: Fernando Gont Autocrypt: addr=fgont@si6networks.com; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBE5so2gBEACzBQBLUy8nzgAzSZn6ViXT6TmZBFNYNqTpPRvTVtUqF6+tkI+IEd9N2E8p pXUXCd0W4dkxz6o7pagnK63m4QSueggvp881RVVHOF8oTSHOdnGxLfLeLNJFKE1FOutU3vod GK/wG/Fwzkv9MebdXpMlLV8nnJuAt66XGl/lU1JrNfrKO4SoYQi4TsB/waUQcygh7OR/PEO0 EttiU8kZUbZNv58WH+PAj/rdZCrgUSiGXiWUQQKShqKnJxLuAcTcg5YRwL8se/V6ciW0QR9i /sr52gSmLLbW5N3hAoO+nv1V/9SjJAUvzXu43k8sua/XlCXkqU7uLj41CRR72JeUZ4DQsYfP LfNPC98ZGTVxbWbFtLXxpzzDDT8i3uo7w1LJ2Ij/d5ezcARqw01HGljWWxnidUrjbTpxkJ9X EllcsH94mer728j/HKzC9OcTuz6WUBP3Crgl6Q47gY5ZIiF0lsmd9/wxbaq5NiJ+lGuBRZrD v0dQx9KmyI0/pH2AF8cW897/6ypvcyD/1/11CJcN+uAGIrklwJlVpRSbKbFtGC6In592lhu7 wnK8cgyP5cTU+vva9+g6P1wehi4bylXdlKc6mMphbtSA+T3WBNP557+mh3L62l4pGaEGidcZ DLYT2Ud18eAJmxU3HnM8P3iZZgeoK7oqgb53/eg96vkONXNIOwARAQABtCVGZXJuYW5kbyBH b250IDxmZ29udEBzaTZuZXR3b3Jrcy5jb20+iQJBBBMBAgArAhsjBQkSzAMABgsJCAcDAgYV CAIJCgsEFgIDAQIeAQIXgAUCTmylpQIZAQAKCRCuJQ1VHU50kv7wD/9fuNtTfxSLk3B3Hs3p ixTy8YXVjdkVwWlnJjFd7BOWmg7sI+LDhpjGfT6+ddOiwkumnvUZpObodj4ysH0i8c7P4C5t F9yu7WjklSlrB5Rth2CGChg5bKt541z2WHkFFxys9qBLmCSYDeKQkzLqhCjIUJizY2kOJ2GI MnSFDzJjhSFEh//oW830Y8fel1xnf/NVF+lBVtRMtMOfoWUqDjvP3sJ1G4zgkDCnF0CfncLx +hq2Mv26Uq9OTzvLH9aSQQ/f067BOkKAJKsfHdborX4E96ISTz57/4xECRSMr5dVsKVm4Y// uVIsb+L5z+a32FaiBZIAKDgnJO7Z8j6CV5e5yfuBTtX52Yi9HjYYqnYJGSDxYd6igD4bWu+7 xmJPHjkdqZgGV6dQIgiUfqkU+s5Cv350vK48CMaT/ZLo2BdsMhWsmaHmb+waePUMyq6E4E9x 9Js+EJb9ZiCfxS9exgieZQpet1L36IvhiwByvkQM009ywfa30JeMOltUtfLi5V06WQWsTzPL 5C+4cpkguSuAJVDTctjCA0moIeVDOpJ8WH9voQ4IeWapQnX35OIoj1jGJqqYdx65gc1ygbyx b8vw+pJ9E5GLse5TQnYifOWpXzX9053dtbwp/2OVhU4KLlzfCPCEsoTyfu9nIZxdI2PMwiL5 M85BfjX4NmwBLmPGoLkCDQRObKNoARAAqqXCkr250BchRDmi+05F5UQFgylUh10XTAJxBeaQ UNtdxZiZRm6jgomSrqeYtricM9t9K0qb4X2ZXmAMW8o8AYW3RrQHTjcBwMnAKzUIEXXWaLfG cid/ygmvWzIHgMDQKP+MUq1AGQrnvt/MRLvZLyczAV1RTXS58qNaxtaSpc3K/yrDozh/a4pu WcUsVvIkzyx43sqcwamDSBb6U8JFoZizuLXiARLLASgyHrrCedNIZdWSx0z0iHEpZIelA2ih AGLiSMtmtikVEyrJICgO81DkKNCbBbPg+7fi23V6M24+3syHk3IdQibTtBMxinIPyLFF0byJ aGm0fmjefhnmVJyCIl/FDkCHprVhTme57G2/WdoGnUvnT7mcwDRb8XY5nNRkOJsqqLPemKjz kx8mXdQbunXtX9bKyVgd1gIl+LLsxbdzRCch773UBVoortPdK3kMyLtZ4uMeDX3comjx+6VL bztUdJ1Zc9/njwVG8fgmQ+0Kj5+bzQfUY+MmX0HTXIx3B4R1I1a8QoOwi1N+iZNdewV5Zfq+ 29NlQLnVPjCRCKbaz9k6RJ2oIti55YUI6zSsL3lmlOXsRbXN5bRswFczkNSCJxJMlDiyAUIC WOay7ymzvgzPa+BY/mYn94vRaurDQ4/ljOfj6oqgfjts+dJev4Jj89vp8MQI3KJpZPEAEQEA AYkCJQQYAQIADwUCTmyjaAIbDAUJEswDAAAKCRCuJQ1VHU50km4xEACho45PZrUjY4Zl2opR DFNo5a6roTOPpgwO9PcBb3I5F8yX2Dnew+9OhgWXbBhAFq4DCx+9Gjs43Bn60qbZTDbLGJ/m 8N4PwEiq0e5MKceYcbetEdEUWhm5L6psU9ZZ82GR3UGxPXYe+oifEoJjOXQ39avf9S8p3yKP Diil0E79rn7LbJjMcgMLyjFg9SDoJ6pHLtniJoDhEAaSSgeV7Y745+gyMIdtQmrFHfqrFdjq D6G0HE+Z68ywc5KN67YxhvhBmSycs1ZSKAXv1zLDlXdmjHDHkU3xMcB+RkuiTba8yRFYwb/n j62CC4NhFTuIKOc4ta3dJsyXTGh/hO9UjWUnmAGfd0fnzTBZF8Qlnw/8ftx5lt4/O+eqY1EN RITScnPzXE/wMOlTtdkddQ+QN6xt6jyR2XtAIi7aAFHypIqA3lLI9hF9x+lj4UQ2yA9LqpoX 6URpPOd13JhAyDe47cwsP1u9Y+OBvQTVLSvw7Liu2b4KjqL4lx++VdBi7dXsjJ6kjIRjI6Lb WVpxe8LumMCuVDepTafBZ49gr7Fgc4F9ZSCo6ChgQNLn6WDzIkqFX+42KuHz90AHWhuW+KZR 1aJylERWeTcMCGUSBptd48KniWmD6kPKpzwoMkJtEXTuO2lVuborxzwuqOTNuYg9lWDl7zKt wPI9brGzquUHy4qRrA== Message-ID: <29cc0bb8-cafc-c308-56a1-2f21eee87c76@si6networks.com> Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2019 11:34:48 -0300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Penultimate Segment Popping and RFC8200 (Was Re: We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping)) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2019 14:37:47 -0000 On 7/12/19 07:13, Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) wrote: > +1 > >   > > For some strange reason the PSP behaviour is being mixed with EH > insertion and likely there is some misunderstanding here. You mean we're mixing EH insertion with EH removal? -- Fernando Gont SI6 Networks e-mail: fgont@si6networks.com PGP Fingerprint: 6666 31C6 D484 63B2 8FB1 E3C4 AE25 0D55 1D4E 7492 From nobody Sat Dec 7 07:09:24 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6AF88120232; Sat, 7 Dec 2019 07:09:21 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tbotlP0QJkU0; Sat, 7 Dec 2019 07:09:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from fgont.go6lab.si (fgont.go6lab.si [91.239.96.14]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8378C12008F; 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Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <80A78F48-9802-4DA9-B264-1A8920C1DDF9@kaloom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Penultimate Segment Popping and RFC8200 (Was Re: We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping)) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2019 15:09:21 -0000 On 7/12/19 04:19, Suresh Krishnan wrote: > (responding on spring mailing list) > > Hi Fernando, > >> On Dec 7, 2019, at 11:07 AM, Fernando Gont > > wrote: >> >> On 6/12/19 23:47, Brian E Carpenter wrote: >>> Again, comment at the end... >>> On 07-Dec-19 14:37, Fernando Gont wrote: >>>> On 6/12/19 22:15, Brian E Carpenter wrote: >>>> [...] >>>>> >>>>>> and if such a thing is required, an update to RFC8200 should be done. >>>>> >>>>> Why does that follow? Alternatively, >>>>> draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming could acknowledge that >>>>> it deviates from RFC8200. >>>> >>>> You can deviate from s "should", not from a "must". This is an outright >>>> violation of a spec, rather than a mere "deviation". >>>> >>>> >>>>> Whether that's acceptable would be a question for the IETF Last >>>>> Call rather than any single WG. >>>> >>>> I would expect that a WG cannot ship a document that is violating an >>>> existing spec, where the wg shipping the document is not in a position >>>> of making decisions regarding the spec being violated. >>>> >>>> That would be like a waste of energy and time for all. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> At the moment, the draft only mentions RFC8200 in a context that >>>>> discusses neither insertion nor removal of extension headers, which >>>>> is beside the point. Like draft-voyer, if it describes a violation >>>>> of RFC8200, shouldn't that be explicit in the text? >>>>> >>>>> There's a lot of jargon in >>>>> draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming. I can't tell from the >>>>> jargon whether "insert" means "insert on the fly" and whether "Pop >>>>> the SRH" means "delete on the fly". Should those terms be clarified >>>>> before the draft advances? >>>> >>>> Well, if it's not clear to you, it would seem to me that the simple >>>> answer would be "yes". >>> >>> But if "insert" refers to the encapsulating node at the SR domain >>> ingress, it's no problem, and if "pop" simply means doing normal >>> routing header processing, it's no problem. It simply isn't clear in >>> the text, at least not clear to me. >> >> The fact that a folk that has been deeply involved with IPv6 cannot >> unequivocally tell what they talking about should be an indication with >> respect to how ready the document is to be shipped. >> >> (pop when you are the destination but SL!=0 is essentially 'in the >> network removal’) > > It is not obvious to me why you think this is a violation of RFC8200 > though it is possible that I misread your comment. The relevant text I > am looking at is > > "  Extension headers (except for the Hop-by-Hop Options header) are not >    processed, inserted, or deleted by any node along a packet's delivery >    path, until the packet reaches the node (or each of the set of nodes, >    in the case of multicast) identified in the Destination Address field >    of the IPv6 header.†> > which seems to permit it. Can you please clarify where there is a > violation? May I add: 1) For some reason, the mechanism is called Penultimate Segment Popping? -- Does "penultimate segment" ring any bells? 2) A related question I have for you: Is IPv6 an end-to-end protocol? (The answer to this question also serves as an answer for the rest). Thanks, -- Fernando Gont SI6 Networks e-mail: fgont@si6networks.com PGP Fingerprint: 6666 31C6 D484 63B2 8FB1 E3C4 AE25 0D55 1D4E 7492 From nobody Sat Dec 7 07:10:13 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4DA212008F; Sat, 7 Dec 2019 07:10:11 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.5 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.5 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com header.b=S8t8Cfny; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.onmicrosoft.com header.b=WUMMz43E Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost 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b=WUMMz43EItqweIJzoA+m3jQcXwEz2v8G9dYKnS0KqI4aPJSbfy05Rgs8dVrAB3hKQQsm8bm7V9pY7VnvszEdfgbzE8qht1tuY9ZsLbj5RVMqFZpeqi55SjE5ThJ9xA308HuJRImvmHFiZhXMhwk4WgulayopFdfhjyY4dST7ILI= Received: from BN7PR11MB2594.namprd11.prod.outlook.com (52.135.246.159) by BN7PR11MB2835.namprd11.prod.outlook.com (52.135.254.25) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.2516.16; Sat, 7 Dec 2019 15:10:01 +0000 Received: from BN7PR11MB2594.namprd11.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::c72:fa12:757e:cca3]) by BN7PR11MB2594.namprd11.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::c72:fa12:757e:cca3%5]) with mapi id 15.20.2516.014; Sat, 7 Dec 2019 15:10:01 +0000 From: "Darren Dukes (ddukes)" To: Ron Bonica CC: SPRING WG , 6man <6man@ietf.org> Thread-Topic: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping Thread-Index: AdWqwAHVKZEn9oMNQKewBt9OvTlYXgAzAekAAAP9pMAAN4RDgAABYu/AACQyAAA= Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2019 15:10:01 +0000 Message-ID: <7B7CFEB8-80F0-4690-9BE3-8D5F935E148A@cisco.com> References: 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spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16DF812008F; Sat, 7 Dec 2019 07:19:47 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uYo1gWL_osCB; Sat, 7 Dec 2019 07:19:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from fgont.go6lab.si (fgont.go6lab.si [91.239.96.14]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 685A712001E; Sat, 7 Dec 2019 07:19:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.4.77] (unknown [190.179.35.56]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by fgont.go6lab.si (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4059C860D3; Sat, 7 Dec 2019 16:19:41 +0100 (CET) To: "Darren Dukes (ddukes)" , Ron Bonica Cc: SPRING WG , 6man <6man@ietf.org> References: <3AD3BD11-8C34-41FE-B88F-49A9F2561D78@cisco.com> <7B7CFEB8-80F0-4690-9BE3-8D5F935E148A@cisco.com> From: Fernando Gont Autocrypt: addr=fgont@si6networks.com; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBE5so2gBEACzBQBLUy8nzgAzSZn6ViXT6TmZBFNYNqTpPRvTVtUqF6+tkI+IEd9N2E8p pXUXCd0W4dkxz6o7pagnK63m4QSueggvp881RVVHOF8oTSHOdnGxLfLeLNJFKE1FOutU3vod GK/wG/Fwzkv9MebdXpMlLV8nnJuAt66XGl/lU1JrNfrKO4SoYQi4TsB/waUQcygh7OR/PEO0 EttiU8kZUbZNv58WH+PAj/rdZCrgUSiGXiWUQQKShqKnJxLuAcTcg5YRwL8se/V6ciW0QR9i /sr52gSmLLbW5N3hAoO+nv1V/9SjJAUvzXu43k8sua/XlCXkqU7uLj41CRR72JeUZ4DQsYfP LfNPC98ZGTVxbWbFtLXxpzzDDT8i3uo7w1LJ2Ij/d5ezcARqw01HGljWWxnidUrjbTpxkJ9X EllcsH94mer728j/HKzC9OcTuz6WUBP3Crgl6Q47gY5ZIiF0lsmd9/wxbaq5NiJ+lGuBRZrD v0dQx9KmyI0/pH2AF8cW897/6ypvcyD/1/11CJcN+uAGIrklwJlVpRSbKbFtGC6In592lhu7 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Diil0E79rn7LbJjMcgMLyjFg9SDoJ6pHLtniJoDhEAaSSgeV7Y745+gyMIdtQmrFHfqrFdjq D6G0HE+Z68ywc5KN67YxhvhBmSycs1ZSKAXv1zLDlXdmjHDHkU3xMcB+RkuiTba8yRFYwb/n j62CC4NhFTuIKOc4ta3dJsyXTGh/hO9UjWUnmAGfd0fnzTBZF8Qlnw/8ftx5lt4/O+eqY1EN RITScnPzXE/wMOlTtdkddQ+QN6xt6jyR2XtAIi7aAFHypIqA3lLI9hF9x+lj4UQ2yA9LqpoX 6URpPOd13JhAyDe47cwsP1u9Y+OBvQTVLSvw7Liu2b4KjqL4lx++VdBi7dXsjJ6kjIRjI6Lb WVpxe8LumMCuVDepTafBZ49gr7Fgc4F9ZSCo6ChgQNLn6WDzIkqFX+42KuHz90AHWhuW+KZR 1aJylERWeTcMCGUSBptd48KniWmD6kPKpzwoMkJtEXTuO2lVuborxzwuqOTNuYg9lWDl7zKt wPI9brGzquUHy4qRrA== Message-ID: <4ec63b04-0b45-14ae-2f3c-abf66201bcb4@si6networks.com> Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2019 12:19:26 -0300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <7B7CFEB8-80F0-4690-9BE3-8D5F935E148A@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2019 15:19:47 -0000 On 7/12/19 12:10, Darren Dukes (ddukes) wrote: > Ron, you say >>>  RFC 8200 addresses extension header insertion and deletion > identically, in the same sentence. > > This sentence you refer to clearly permits PSP as defined in network > programming: >    Extension headers (except for the Hop-by-Hop Options header) are not >    processed, inserted, or deleted by any node along a packet's delivery >    path, until the packet reaches the node (or each of the set of nodes, >    in the case of multicast) identified in the Destination Address field >    of the IPv6 header. > > Clearly we process the SRH at the node identified in the destination > address field of the IPv6 header. > With PSP we remove the SRH at the node identified in the destination > address field of the IPv6 header. > > I think it’s clear we can conclude this thread. Can you tell me which address, other than the address of the final destination, can be present in the DA of a pcket, in the context of RFC8200? Thanks, -- Fernando Gont SI6 Networks e-mail: fgont@si6networks.com PGP Fingerprint: 6666 31C6 D484 63B2 8FB1 E3C4 AE25 0D55 1D4E 7492 From nobody Sat Dec 7 07:29:26 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C01C120041 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2019 07:29:24 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=raszuk.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FlHJr5e7sd99 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2019 07:29:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qt1-x82a.google.com (mail-qt1-x82a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::82a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AEA39120236 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2019 07:29:21 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qt1-x82a.google.com with SMTP id d5so10517011qto.0 for ; Sat, 07 Dec 2019 07:29:21 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=raszuk.net; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=uhd7IISMZDe0IfzYPXw130HuX3KgS8Zsw2wkFtdAiZI=; b=JygoB5B5Ne+KekAEoqwPsENnB3QfXIdXoPndDcnOOX69tJCVf4vvq6Vig1Shii+uhq UTWIZWo8hLsE1+UPV7thnOHvo9VWbE0ieIgtgK+7fX3zRWCcqk5wVP8MN9aO0b2ivX/V Wr+AghmkRK5Yi+Z/BGW4nymt0Hy/rMy3wAK228UqI3FmURdhfJ2wuHDmZDafUUTxY2sY vl17tqLzuGS6IrzVG43QT0aLx11vmAiJ3Pq9fYIIH8M3RZ344vM2lOd4o2/myuXv/f/d BC5v6C4A5CRGFKq+sQB2+dQKbTdcaxUDpjyRueVbQT/LcyAjjuWyhpPW2ldqF3o4NWKa nXsg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=uhd7IISMZDe0IfzYPXw130HuX3KgS8Zsw2wkFtdAiZI=; b=eMykYo8TzL+D4WLY5ZpgrhFDYNSKBMSI4YoEoHjMr/9Wj+7pHixcir2Z+R/yRlRcRP BJyAqLSq+huyv8MrM6V2+1eJ3BAQhrlDP905nOd/sFg2816MeskdPUt4u+hd5goeGtVB FcI6LzBsCv29MIEkgRWN0C05hjjPY3QQlRL0JG/BHrz7OAQ7rhMStQ4fs3cR23P0ZJNc qgxjC0cKIwuyg8V0KnW49zn12773XGbXIUvWn+59Li1gKVXOX9LfSgjd3Gt/tAQCKLWq Q+kdDd0LIKEjxq094LlQSSCgoxLrxFww9lNb+spP8LtGpwoZSej70cNis8C6cy/C9WNd WCRg== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXDGnCHLkDrBQ/BlGZ5AapMwf2+7PZ3V2zDHi544deyi4u0KBpZ lKN9T7x2NvSCkH/eXYCXl5ik9DWxqtnwCdWFiizIOw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwhq2A7NZJPgutYgaEwHEMps9IAM4a90JqwMxV1FOkPR+Y5UhSiFR5xP5P40DCK7ngXOI+qF9r4lGl/KQwVvu8= X-Received: by 2002:aed:2b62:: with SMTP id p89mr17833464qtd.208.1575732560712; Sat, 07 Dec 2019 07:29:20 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <4255AD3B-379C-45BF-96E1-D3D9141A684F@liquidtelecom.com> <3bce7b18-ea45-d29f-5dfb-1d3258b07d1e@si6networks.com> <80A78F48-9802-4DA9-B264-1A8920C1DDF9@kaloom.com> In-Reply-To: From: Robert Raszuk Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2019 16:29:13 +0100 Message-ID: To: Fernando Gont Cc: Suresh Krishnan , SPRING WG , Ron Bonica , "int-ads@ietf.org" , Andrew Alston , rtg-ads , Bob Hinden , Ole Troan , Brian E Carpenter Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000008aebc605991ed33f" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Penultimate Segment Popping and RFC8200 (Was Re: We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping)) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2019 15:29:24 -0000 --0000000000008aebc605991ed33f Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > 2) A related question I have for you: Is IPv6 an end-to-end protocol? > (The answer to this question also serves as an answer for the rest). The moment IPv6 src <--> dst flow makes it legal to be encapsulated you are dealing with end to end inner IPv6 and end to end outer IPv6. You keep drawing false assumption that inner IPv6 header should mandate or even influence action on outer IPv6 header which is simply not correct. Cheers, R. --0000000000008aebc605991ed33f Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

2) A related question I have = for you: Is IPv6 an end-to-end protocol?
(The answer to this question also serves as an answer for the rest).

The moment IPv6 src <--> dst flow makes it = legal to be encapsulated you are dealing with end to end inner IPv6 and end= to end outer IPv6.=C2=A0

You keep drawing false a= ssumption that inner IPv6 header should=C2=A0mandate or even influence acti= on on outer IPv6 header which is simply not correct.=C2=A0

Cheers,
R.

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Sat, 7 Dec 2019 15:57:08 +0000 From: "Darren Dukes (ddukes)" To: Robert Raszuk CC: Fernando Gont , Ron Bonica , SPRING WG , 6man <6man@ietf.org>, "int-ads@ietf.org" , rtg-ads , Bob Hinden Thread-Topic: [spring] We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping) Thread-Index: AQHVq7OLppwlxoAxpkapR58CxSQcCKesEh6AgAAHo4CAAArdAIAAGcUAgAACwYCAAQOBgIAAEt0AgAAJFwCAABqdgIAAA1OAgAAEh4CAABhKgIAADt+AgAAF9wCAADAbAIAABhGAgAATroCAAAVhAIAAkUWAgABF3IA= Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2019 15:57:08 +0000 Message-ID: <09B00E32-37A1-4F06-81B9-6EE88639BC1D@cisco.com> References: <4255AD3B-379C-45BF-96E1-D3D9141A684F@liquidtelecom.com> <3bce7b18-ea45-d29f-5dfb-1d3258b07d1e@si6networks.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=ddukes@cisco.com; x-originating-ip: [2001:420:c0cc:1006::30] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 2f826b57-ae5a-4df2-d22c-08d77b2e1d51 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: BN7PR11MB2609: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:9508; 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boundary="_000_09B00E3237A14F0681B96EE88639BC1Dciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 2f826b57-ae5a-4df2-d22c-08d77b2e1d51 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 07 Dec 2019 15:57:08.4119 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5ae1af62-9505-4097-a69a-c1553ef7840e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: dc/2BXmQhzxzIO/UHme2ZlQDsW4mYxfKFkm+/C3u7DUO1vkLtVLuh7QzJenGHe1B6WxW2WmQuZ6c8TvqTM9LoA== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN7PR11MB2609 X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.36.7.13, xch-aln-003.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-3.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2019 15:57:16 -0000 --_000_09B00E3237A14F0681B96EE88639BC1Dciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Robert, thank you for injecting clarity to this thread. draft-ietf-spring-network-programming defines PSP, and the only relevant po= rtion of this thread to that draft is Discussion #3. As I stated in another post, I consider #3 closed as this is clearly comply= ing with RFC8200. https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ipv6/6Uy_JuMm7W66kTql_o7FYisxkg0 The remainder of the discussion in this thread is unrelated to draft-ietf-s= pring-network-programming. Thanks Darren On Dec 7, 2019, at 6:47 AM, Robert Raszuk > wrote: Hey Fernando, (pop when you are the destination but SL!=3D0 is essentially 'in the network removal') I was trying to stay out of this but I have one fundamental question or obs= ervation this entire debate seems to be about. In the context of SRv6 there are two parallel discussions Discussion #1 - It is about inserting, modifying or deleting SRH by nodes w= hich are not in the outer IPv6 header of the packet Discussion #2 - It is about RFC8200 compliance when the node doing insertio= n of SRH is *the* destination of the packet as read verbatim from the outer= IPv6 header. Discussion #3 - It is about RFC8200 compliance when the node doing modifica= tion or removal of SRH is *the* destination of the packet as read verbatim = from the outer IPv6 header. First let's observe that RFC8200 is only defining the behaviour regarding E= H processing in the context of destination address of the IPv6 outer header= : "identified in the Destination Address field of the IPv6 header.identifie= d in the Destination Address field of the IPv6 header. " Therefore stating that SL value before local decrement matters in this in r= espect to being compliant to the IPv6 RFC is at best just an individual int= erpretation. Besides the pseudocode says it black and white "S14.1. If (u= pdated SL =3D=3D 0) {". We do all sort of processing decision after decreme= nting the values ... think TTL :) So back to reality ... Discussion #1 - I think we all agree that to accomplish that RFC8200 would = need to be updated. Discussion #2 - I think we also all agree here that to accomplish this RFC8= 200 would need to be updated as it does says clearly that "Each extension h= eader should occur at most once, ..." Discussion #3 - It seems clearly that there is no issue with compliance wit= h RFC8200 and that if penultimate segment midpoint decides or is instructed= to pop SRH it sure can and still be 100% compliant with current wording of= RFC8200. So other then so much foam what is this debate all about ? Cheers, Robert. -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- --_000_09B00E3237A14F0681B96EE88639BC1Dciscocom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Robert, thank you for injecting clarity to this thread.

draft-ietf-spring-network-programming defines PSP, and the = only relevant portion of this thread to that draft is Discussion #3.

As I stated in another post, I consider #3 closed as this i= s clearly complying with RFC8200.
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ip= v6/6Uy_JuMm7W66kTql_o7FYisxkg0

The remainder of the discussion in this thread is unrelated= to draft-ietf-spring-network-programming.

Thanks
  Darren

On Dec 7, 2019, at 6:47 AM, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> wrote:

Hey Fernando,

(pop when you are the destination but SL!=3D0 is essentially 'in the
network removal')

I was trying to stay out of this but I have one fundamental= question or observation this entire debate seems to be about. 

In the context of SRv6 there are two parallel discussions&n= bsp;

Discussion #1 - It is about inserting, mo= difying or deleting SRH by nodes which are not in the outer IPv6 heade= r of the packet 

Discussion #2 - It is about RFC8200 compl= iance when the node doing insertion of SRH is *the* destination of the pack= et as read verbatim from the outer IPv6 header. 

Discussion #3 - It is about RFC8200 compl= iance when the node doing modification or removal of SRH is *the* destinati= on of the packet as read verbatim from the outer IPv6 header. 

First let's observe that RFC8200 is only defining the behav= iour regarding EH processing in the context of destination address of the I= Pv6 outer header: "identified in the Destination Address field of the = IPv6 header.identified in the Destination Address field of the IPv6 header. "

Therefore stating that SL value before local decrement matt= ers in this in respect to being compliant to the IPv6 RFC is at best j= ust an individual interpretation. Besides the pseudocode says it black and = white "S14.1.   If (updated SL =3D=3D 0) {". We do all sort of processing decision after decrementing the values ... th= ink TTL :) 

So back to reality ... 

Discussion #1 - I think we all agree that= to accomplish that RFC8200 would need to be updated.

Discussion #2 - I think we also all agree= here that to accomplish this RFC8200 would need to be updated as it does s= ays clearly that "Each extension header should occur at most once, ...= "

Discussion #3 - It seems clearly that the= re is no issue with compliance with RFC8200 and that if penultimate segment= midpoint decides or is instructed to pop SRH it sure can and still be 100%= compliant with current wording of RFC8200. 

So other then so much foam what is this debate all about ?&= nbsp;

Cheers,
Robert.

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--_000_09B00E3237A14F0681B96EE88639BC1Dciscocom_-- From nobody Sat Dec 7 08:04:07 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 642751202A0 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2019 08:04:06 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=raszuk.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id csFwKcCF5C-Z for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2019 08:04:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qt1-x82d.google.com (mail-qt1-x82d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::82d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 96BA31207FE for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2019 08:04:03 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qt1-x82d.google.com with SMTP id g1so10551880qtj.6 for ; Sat, 07 Dec 2019 08:04:03 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=raszuk.net; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=gHlMurKGHaVjCcaNrJHJXS1mBnZBfIHgkY9OZhMlMqI=; b=DfhleeVtY9OUQYiumjOcT7m3va6J3DLirab3BFDVmowRr6NUM3PBc7B0Hc2hGmJZVv GXPcE4IIbl8uToANfW0+5ivTX17zFF6nbOieOeHbeVVrqlSAXKCI3WbHrpm95IvcPf52 uFPnpystEuoGdqMVxVe81RDdibA2PMnBCCFLRGrD6OV09xU5hvTkbVx7CfKycIl9MSM6 SI7NKcs5UioTSTowFjC/7ne8S6ZSwPGNDgqelcqeJpPAeh4KNP+a8cFYBZXwwC+yYcYB rRg+RVYBxlLg7cJ8b6rexai7DuGagkHhwd9sj/UIEy7cWmgD014W4yaHIqZMzZ0Xb91+ deVQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=gHlMurKGHaVjCcaNrJHJXS1mBnZBfIHgkY9OZhMlMqI=; b=JeOuU4OJsviY+vj5aFYsrgshkuNkkHmQvahnXuNiQL1Smmx6SibExWZfiOQfamaU6l L9rvzTJCfGcsB89t38q3ciU8X0GTpxSllrexOUA3sfnibw3r4FEcFzocAkmomfars8oX jghsfnBjl2WSyrV5b5pjOnK5W5LiRvAxaHoL3go9E0DNnR1tDjcmNIgLTE3rH6pRlCTZ vnqCXVIfo7any2LpKR+SPTMNK/2FnspNQNiu35CLX+GbDUx3YuJpOS0z7T4iGjPYo8fO gbBfIRMi/G5U+YQ9vVnPfxfRPbzouem1EKgg5kNkWkHVBqAfbVX2MhIUet82yJi69/Sk CESg== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVU1Fu82npFUj+Zf3DW3wi6TeHJ24MGgPykvbHSaQsitCa00S8t NOjlTurxb1uAwiTYqoLv7rwcqcVGKjxVGj25Oh6/Nw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwkiRCI4EqQMyczW2+kUsZFtW6fLaDNK9OaJZeMHp45pZG0jCGXxstTD4LXJOHxTQAs/KItJwlsn3vFVn3mkPQ= X-Received: by 2002:ac8:1017:: with SMTP id z23mr17625973qti.154.1575734642702; Sat, 07 Dec 2019 08:04:02 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <4255AD3B-379C-45BF-96E1-D3D9141A684F@liquidtelecom.com> <3bce7b18-ea45-d29f-5dfb-1d3258b07d1e@si6networks.com> <09B00E32-37A1-4F06-81B9-6EE88639BC1D@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <09B00E32-37A1-4F06-81B9-6EE88639BC1D@cisco.com> From: Robert Raszuk Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2019 17:03:54 +0100 Message-ID: To: "Darren Dukes (ddukes)" Cc: Fernando Gont , Ron Bonica , SPRING WG , 6man <6man@ietf.org>, "int-ads@ietf.org" , rtg-ads , Bob Hinden Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000a38aed05991f4fc1" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2019 16:04:06 -0000 --000000000000a38aed05991f4fc1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Exactly - That is why I thought it does make sense to make this crystal clear to everyone here. >From some comments it seemed that either folks do not understand or want on purpose to make false assertions only to mud the waters :) All - have a great weekend, Robert. On Sat, Dec 7, 2019 at 4:57 PM Darren Dukes (ddukes) wrote: > Hi Robert, thank you for injecting clarity to this thread. > > draft-ietf-spring-network-programming defines PSP, and the only relevant > portion of this thread to that draft is Discussion #3. > > As I stated in another post, I consider #3 closed as this is clearly > complying with RFC8200. > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ipv6/6Uy_JuMm7W66kTql_o7FYisxkg0 > > The remainder of the discussion in this thread is unrelated to > draft-ietf-spring-network-programming. > > Thanks > Darren > > On Dec 7, 2019, at 6:47 AM, Robert Raszuk wrote: > > Hey Fernando, > > (pop when you are the destination but SL!=0 is essentially 'in the >> network removal') > > > I was trying to stay out of this but I have one fundamental question or > observation this entire debate seems to be about. > > In the context of SRv6 there are two parallel discussions > > *Discussion #1* - It is about inserting, modifying or deleting SRH by > nodes which are not in the outer IPv6 header of the packet > > *Discussion #2* - It is about RFC8200 compliance when the node doing > insertion of SRH is *the* destination of the packet as read verbatim from > the outer IPv6 header. > > *Discussion #3* - It is about RFC8200 compliance when the node doing > modification or removal of SRH is *the* destination of the packet as read > verbatim from the outer IPv6 header. > > First let's observe that RFC8200 is only defining the behaviour regarding > EH processing in the context of destination address of the IPv6 outer > header: "identified in the Destination Address field of the IPv6 > header.identified in the Destination Address field of the IPv6 header. " > > Therefore stating that SL value before local decrement matters in this in > respect to being compliant to the IPv6 RFC is at best just an individual > interpretation. Besides the pseudocode says it black and white "S14.1. If > (updated SL == 0) {". We do all sort of processing decision after > decrementing the values ... think TTL :) > > So back to reality ... > > *Discussion #1* - I think we all agree that to accomplish that RFC8200 > would need to be updated. > > *Discussion #2* - I think we also all agree here that to accomplish this > RFC8200 would need to be updated as it does says clearly that "Each > extension header should occur at most once, ..." > > *Discussion #3* - It seems clearly that there is no issue with compliance > with RFC8200 and that if penultimate segment midpoint decides or is > instructed to pop SRH it sure can and still be 100% compliant with current > wording of RFC8200. > > So other then so much foam what is this debate all about ? > > Cheers, > Robert. > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > --000000000000a38aed05991f4fc1 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Exactly - That is why I thought=C2=A0 it do= es make sense to make this crystal clear to everyone here.=C2=A0

From some comments it seemed that either folks do not understand o= r want on purpose to make false assertions only to mud the waters :)=C2=A0<= /div>

All - have a great weekend,
Robert.
<= div>


On Sat, Dec 7, 2019 at 4:57 PM Darren Du= kes (ddukes) <ddukes@cisco.com&g= t; wrote:
Hi Robert, thank you for injecting clarity to this thread.

draft-ietf-spring-network-programming defines PSP, and the only releva= nt portion of this thread to that draft is Discussion #3.

As I stated in another post, I consider #3 closed as this is clearly c= omplying with RFC8200.

The remainder of the discussion in this thread is unrelated to draft-i= etf-spring-network-programming.

Thanks
=C2=A0 Darren

On Dec 7, 2019, at 6:47 AM, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> wrote:

Hey=C2=A0Fernando,

(pop when you are the destination but SL!=3D0 is essentially 'in the network removal')

I was trying to stay out of this but I have one fundamental question o= r observation this entire debate seems to be about.=C2=A0

In the context of SRv6 there are two parallel discussions=C2=A0

Discussion #1 - It is about inserting, modifying=C2=A0or deleti= ng SRH by nodes which are not in the outer IPv6 header of the packet=C2=A0<= /div>

Discussion #2 - It is about RFC8200 compliance when the node do= ing insertion of SRH is *the* destination of the packet as read verbatim fr= om the outer IPv6 header.=C2=A0

Discussion #3 - It is about RFC8200 compliance when the node do= ing modification or removal of SRH is *the* destination of the packet as re= ad verbatim from the outer IPv6 header.=C2=A0

First let's observe that RFC8200 is only defining the behaviour re= garding EH processing in the context of destination address of the IPv6 out= er header: "identified in the Destination Address field of the IPv6 he= ader.identified in the Destination Address field of the IPv6 header. "

Therefore stating that SL value before local decrement matters in this= in respect to being compliant=C2=A0to the IPv6 RFC is at best just an indi= vidual interpretation. Besides the pseudocode says it black and white "= ;S14.1. =C2=A0 If (updated SL =3D=3D 0) {". We do all sort of processing decision after decrementing the values ... th= ink TTL :)=C2=A0

So back to reality ...=C2=A0

Discussion #1 - I think we all agree that to accomplish that RF= C8200 would need to be updated.

Discussion #2 - I think we also all agree here that to accompli= sh this RFC8200 would need to be updated as it does says clearly that "= ;Each extension header should occur at most once, ..."

Discussion #3 - It seems clearly that there is no issue with co= mpliance with RFC8200 and that if penultimate segment midpoint decides or i= s instructed to pop SRH it sure can and still be 100% compliant=C2=A0with c= urrent wording of RFC8200.=C2=A0

So other then so much foam what is this debate all about ?=C2=A0

Cheers,
Robert.

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--000000000000a38aed05991f4fc1-- From nobody Sat Dec 7 08:26:51 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 758401200C5 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2019 08:26:44 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=herbertland-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XxHgaehK_6fg for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2019 08:26:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ed1-x52f.google.com (mail-ed1-x52f.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::52f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1A66F1202A0 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2019 08:26:42 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ed1-x52f.google.com with SMTP id c93so8626892edf.7 for ; Sat, 07 Dec 2019 08:26:42 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=herbertland-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=mibFHzrwe3OxuuURRUrp9AkQ6XcDENjJhr0bYyh82ho=; b=qFWIKmdRMmcnAXUP88djYt2W5Ox9UJ+QgYvFtMUnayFdhf9dIHusHmg9reDv1yaXBj fQcONfWE3bruP7o/daOysrfOUnbt8tJYLPDULkFRhSM8/b3a5qui0GS+NU4vtzvj1bAu YEwiU+BCsB/xozfFrPw77/6e12DiYgufasY17rjWELaqcs7FBFvTZ6aLHLbO+NynqZXi WICG582gOD57rSn3/XqcehbbFV0G+iCAMtcOjqqqaXunKpyE3DlK5gNNqNUAJnYOdF0j oFCfVEz2bPaet40chYjj4fSiPz3MDDta3PirZGTCXTeHfcI02lm9gERbRftpPPruy+jR 3swQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=mibFHzrwe3OxuuURRUrp9AkQ6XcDENjJhr0bYyh82ho=; b=WcWgm/IYEffdZjrBZX+DXA75n3gsgGUIWbQpvsr+8Vi9EINJKMo69MEQq+6+weOeWI 3tQ99I4+uPTtiVFxbXfklykQH73GWci+3fyMigovHe+nklkAL/km6yJbWQaxVYTV3H+O S5EyR8pHT8NC9SoBVO4kR7blDCsgb8999AWuLZ/Af7ABYeEIyFSVy07qTNnlQhnx8ac4 5E5rI/fsDea+aDmP0MMlR4T6lMmtaS+PZC+pJrOavL2C9dOHqzpVjT8CowgV4EP7pPpG j1pmxeiyi8vy2Yx1tHilnk6jJjRxczYuz2UWoa0Kg4T2FP1hsjVfiOn7ckF6FgM/vJwq /zLQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUwiRnKGZF8kwC6z0Hla3RIIhAgxRxZv+50fjo6xFl6VrSsm2zc +nNRuQKNtA+wEIoUvw1LQ30TEMddUCCajPexrtvIHg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqweMnUxVEPbaJ10PFlLm6axA4OGDwcazM3CBZomwMOeoZAamF4fP+aWRl/oSxDwZm0SoX/jEFvu2xcA9fxpwAs= X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:a444:: with SMTP id cb4mr22258376ejb.42.1575736000415; Sat, 07 Dec 2019 08:26:40 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <3AD3BD11-8C34-41FE-B88F-49A9F2561D78@cisco.com> <7B7CFEB8-80F0-4690-9BE3-8D5F935E148A@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <7B7CFEB8-80F0-4690-9BE3-8D5F935E148A@cisco.com> From: Tom Herbert Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2019 08:26:29 -0800 Message-ID: To: "Darren Dukes (ddukes)" Cc: Ron Bonica , SPRING WG , 6man <6man@ietf.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2019 16:26:45 -0000 On Sat, Dec 7, 2019 at 7:10 AM Darren Dukes (ddukes) wro= te: > > Ron, you say > >> RFC 8200 addresses extension header insertion and deletion identicall= y, in the same sentence. > > This sentence you refer to clearly permits PSP as defined in network prog= ramming: > Extension headers (except for the Hop-by-Hop Options header) are not > processed, inserted, or deleted by any node along a packet's delivery > path, until the packet reaches the node (or each of the set of nodes, > in the case of multicast) identified in the Destination Address field > of the IPv6 header. > > Clearly we process the SRH at the node identified in the destination addr= ess field of the IPv6 header. > With PSP we remove the SRH at the node identified in the destination addr= ess field of the IPv6 header. > Darren, I believe you are assuming a very liberal interpretation of the wording in RFC8200. If intermediate hosts in the routing list are able to add or remove SRH per RFC8200, then they are allowed to add or remove any and all extension headers per the same interpretation. I do not believe that is at all the intent of RFC8200. Also note that the liberal interpretation it would validate other cases of arbitrary extension header manipulation like in NAT devices for instance. Tom > I think it=E2=80=99s clear we can conclude this thread. > > Darren > > > > On Dec 6, 2019, at 5:01 PM, Ron Bonica wrote: > > >> I have observed, in your original post, the conflation of SRH insertio= n within an SR Domain with the PSP behavior defined in network programming. > >> Whether this was intentional or not, I do not know. > >> Regardless, it is wrong. > > Darren, > > We clearly disagree. RFC 8200 addresses extension header insertion and d= eletion identically, in the same sentence. > > > Ron > > > > > > > Juniper Business Use Only > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Sat Dec 7 08:49:12 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7A1512004F for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2019 08:49:11 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=raszuk.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IeR6nFxppfog for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2019 08:49:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qk1-x72f.google.com (mail-qk1-x72f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::72f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 22EB012002E for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2019 08:49:09 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qk1-x72f.google.com with SMTP id s25so4377937qks.3 for ; Sat, 07 Dec 2019 08:49:09 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=raszuk.net; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=U2TmFU7Nk2V0Qa9yoFAYCvDuNttUk62TIKW08T0rVjY=; b=a0S7wWGQ2Gvl0SL9FOoQQYKvCd8SuDH2ktZuY0PGulcI8oLHPILo+9p1AsjDt9i4BD I0rdWqRFPD2JqNBLacLdQq8phBE2IEiUet0dKKxZ9vLaTp2BZmjGeKMrlBCMUmerScHM +kUaxoffjgQKph17JURUtTmsObRWXYWsV3h9DOQYbg/QWIlEjcFbpVV+izIhYALZUSTc 9DcOUk18wtH1ay3i+J0KT8Dh4Oa0Vy9P5WoKgxrAxTpgph0bBDfb6/h4WSN01ieGGCIG Egbzi0fnw0NSxMf/L6LO1X+sqoBoDpDv9L+XuaQiwzAhoR+nd01MBRxo+yPMXhWqhrcn KGcA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=U2TmFU7Nk2V0Qa9yoFAYCvDuNttUk62TIKW08T0rVjY=; b=KXRhjPVyDfPQPJK6i+b2K7hoyQG4nlY4R/pO0+pNM/qbqUDpAhT7DIPAp1dmwjTpi5 F2yNOW7w2GUbv4KlQwLJHJdO68ux5DLw6YGH5ljVX2KARlyCoiJYHZDXi1auiDeJgM9A F2tyhHrZoy4F4j6Vw5cGPG0UaZXPfNV3jjTD0iMoCoqiFCnlNQhUcdpevue6fvHHayVH jIWvwf5FnheB1xfCu0qeqNq+asJAZMApDqA4xFRP7YrR0KRterFNFaAxVk/1FvbynHCA KaAFJfWyh3/DYXwxSk9mdZLyHWVGROtwzVflGZ2o0uQTjP7zUSxswi3BoGRuqMWCXHva lVKg== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXAmnz67HKeW4ZRTLuw6VCtSzaX/KjbuajHx03ytr6Upduy/PJg xiXJn2Qy0F3CYNZJNSfN6AFgwtK7hBECMwa/9bezsw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwy54yAqmKK1jH4omaEAGBeZCWN8/stWT5YiuQS3sYtpeVrnZRI5knOKp7lB+GKttDV1GDqTLwgsGRfykuEirU= X-Received: by 2002:ae9:e887:: with SMTP id a129mr2290872qkg.465.1575737347043; Sat, 07 Dec 2019 08:49:07 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <3AD3BD11-8C34-41FE-B88F-49A9F2561D78@cisco.com> <7B7CFEB8-80F0-4690-9BE3-8D5F935E148A@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: From: Robert Raszuk Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2019 17:48:59 +0100 Message-ID: To: Tom Herbert Cc: "Darren Dukes (ddukes)" , Ron Bonica , SPRING WG , 6man <6man@ietf.org> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000d4828f05991ff0af" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2019 16:49:11 -0000 --000000000000d4828f05991ff0af Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Tom, > If intermediate hosts in the routing list are able to add or remove SRH per RFC8200 "Routing list" contained in SRH does not matter at all here in terms of compliance with RFC8200. At each segment midpoint the outer IPv6 destination is *rewritten*. For illustrative purposes you may visualize like outer IPv6 header is removed and new IPv6 header is added with new destination address at each segment midpoint. It is this principal of SRv6 operation which is being used and which in no way contradicts nor stretches RFC8200 as it is written today. Besides it is basic thing that SR segment may end in the middle of the network then native routing will take the packet to the dst. Is that also being considered violation of something ? Your analogy to NAT is pretty false as NAT box is never an intended destination of the packet. All the best, R. On Sat, Dec 7, 2019 at 5:27 PM Tom Herbert wrote: > On Sat, Dec 7, 2019 at 7:10 AM Darren Dukes (ddukes) > wrote: > > > > Ron, you say > > >> RFC 8200 addresses extension header insertion and deletion > identically, in the same sentence. > > > > This sentence you refer to clearly permits PSP as defined in network > programming: > > Extension headers (except for the Hop-by-Hop Options header) are not > > processed, inserted, or deleted by any node along a packet's deliver= y > > path, until the packet reaches the node (or each of the set of nodes= , > > in the case of multicast) identified in the Destination Address fiel= d > > of the IPv6 header. > > > > Clearly we process the SRH at the node identified in the destination > address field of the IPv6 header. > > With PSP we remove the SRH at the node identified in the destination > address field of the IPv6 header. > > > Darren, > > I believe you are assuming a very liberal interpretation of the > wording in RFC8200. If intermediate hosts in the routing list are able > to add or remove SRH per RFC8200, then they are allowed to add or > remove any and all extension headers per the same interpretation. I do > not believe that is at all the intent of RFC8200. Also note that the > liberal interpretation it would validate other cases of arbitrary > extension header manipulation like in NAT devices for instance. > > Tom > > > I think it=E2=80=99s clear we can conclude this thread. > > > > Darren > > > > > > > > On Dec 6, 2019, at 5:01 PM, Ron Bonica wrote: > > > > >> I have observed, in your original post, the conflation of SRH > insertion within an SR Domain with the PSP behavior defined in network > programming. > > >> Whether this was intentional or not, I do not know. > > >> Regardless, it is wrong. > > > > Darren, > > > > We clearly disagree. RFC 8200 addresses extension header insertion and > deletion identically, in the same sentence. > > > > > > Ron > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Juniper Business Use Only > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > > ipv6@ietf.org > > Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > --000000000000d4828f05991ff0af Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Tom,

> If intermediate hosts in the = routing list are able to add or remove SRH per RFC8200=C2=A0=C2=A0

"Routing list" contained in SRH does not mat= ter at all here in terms of compliance with RFC8200.=C2=A0

At each segment midpoint the outer IPv6 destination is *rewritten*= . For illustrative purposes you may visualize like outer IPv6 header is rem= oved and new IPv6 header is added with new destination address at each segm= ent midpoint.=C2=A0

It is this principal=C2=A0of S= Rv6 operation which is being used and which in no way contradicts nor stret= ches=C2=A0RFC8200 as it is written today.=C2=A0

Be= sides it is basic thing that SR segment may end in the middle of the networ= k then native routing will take the packet to the dst. Is that also being c= onsidered violation of something ?=C2=A0

Your anal= ogy to NAT is pretty false as NAT box is never an intended destination of t= he packet.=C2=A0

All the best,
R.

On Sat, Dec 7, 2019 at 5:27 PM Tom Herbert <tom@herbertland.com> wrote:
On Sat, Dec 7, 2019 at 7:10 AM Darren = Dukes (ddukes) <dd= ukes@cisco.com> wrote:
>
> Ron, you say
> >>=C2=A0 RFC 8200 addresses extension header insertion and delet= ion identically, in the same sentence.
>
> This sentence you refer to clearly permits PSP as defined in network p= rogramming:
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Extension headers (except for the Hop-by-Hop Options head= er) are not
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 processed, inserted, or deleted by any node along a packe= t's delivery
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 path, until the packet reaches the node (or each of the s= et of nodes,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 in the case of multicast) identified in the Destination A= ddress field
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 of the IPv6 header.
>
> Clearly we process the SRH at the node identified in the destination a= ddress field of the IPv6 header.
> With PSP we remove the SRH at the node identified in the destination a= ddress field of the IPv6 header.
>
Darren,

I believe you are assuming a very liberal interpretation of the
wording in RFC8200. If intermediate hosts in the routing list are able
to add or remove SRH per RFC8200, then they are allowed to add or
remove any and all extension headers per the same interpretation. I do
not believe that is at all the intent of RFC8200. Also note that the
liberal interpretation it would validate other cases of arbitrary
extension header manipulation like in NAT devices for instance.

Tom

> I think it=E2=80=99s clear we can conclude this thread.
>
> Darren
>
>
>
> On Dec 6, 2019, at 5:01 PM, Ron Bonica <rbonica@juniper.net> wrote:
>
> >> I have observed, in your original post, the conflation of SRH= insertion within an SR Domain with the PSP behavior defined in network pro= gramming.
> >> Whether this was intentional or not, I do not know.
> >> Regardless, it is wrong.
>
> Darren,
>
> We clearly disagree.=C2=A0 RFC 8200 addresses extension header inserti= on and deletion identically, in the same sentence.
>
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Ron
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Juniper Business Use Only
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list
> ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman= /listinfo/ipv6
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
spring mailing list
spring@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
--000000000000d4828f05991ff0af-- From nobody Sat Dec 7 09:43:19 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88D00120808; Sat, 7 Dec 2019 09:43:13 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8FjIGmVGfOu2; Sat, 7 Dec 2019 09:43:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from fgont.go6lab.si (fgont.go6lab.si [91.239.96.14]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 199B4120019; Sat, 7 Dec 2019 09:43:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.4.77] (unknown [190.179.105.169]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by fgont.go6lab.si (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7568880D26; Sat, 7 Dec 2019 18:43:06 +0100 (CET) To: Robert Raszuk , "Darren Dukes (ddukes)" Cc: Ron Bonica , SPRING WG , 6man <6man@ietf.org>, "int-ads@ietf.org" , rtg-ads , Bob Hinden References: <4255AD3B-379C-45BF-96E1-D3D9141A684F@liquidtelecom.com> <3bce7b18-ea45-d29f-5dfb-1d3258b07d1e@si6networks.com> <09B00E32-37A1-4F06-81B9-6EE88639BC1D@cisco.com> From: Fernando Gont Autocrypt: addr=fgont@si6networks.com; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBE5so2gBEACzBQBLUy8nzgAzSZn6ViXT6TmZBFNYNqTpPRvTVtUqF6+tkI+IEd9N2E8p pXUXCd0W4dkxz6o7pagnK63m4QSueggvp881RVVHOF8oTSHOdnGxLfLeLNJFKE1FOutU3vod GK/wG/Fwzkv9MebdXpMlLV8nnJuAt66XGl/lU1JrNfrKO4SoYQi4TsB/waUQcygh7OR/PEO0 EttiU8kZUbZNv58WH+PAj/rdZCrgUSiGXiWUQQKShqKnJxLuAcTcg5YRwL8se/V6ciW0QR9i /sr52gSmLLbW5N3hAoO+nv1V/9SjJAUvzXu43k8sua/XlCXkqU7uLj41CRR72JeUZ4DQsYfP LfNPC98ZGTVxbWbFtLXxpzzDDT8i3uo7w1LJ2Ij/d5ezcARqw01HGljWWxnidUrjbTpxkJ9X EllcsH94mer728j/HKzC9OcTuz6WUBP3Crgl6Q47gY5ZIiF0lsmd9/wxbaq5NiJ+lGuBRZrD v0dQx9KmyI0/pH2AF8cW897/6ypvcyD/1/11CJcN+uAGIrklwJlVpRSbKbFtGC6In592lhu7 wnK8cgyP5cTU+vva9+g6P1wehi4bylXdlKc6mMphbtSA+T3WBNP557+mh3L62l4pGaEGidcZ DLYT2Ud18eAJmxU3HnM8P3iZZgeoK7oqgb53/eg96vkONXNIOwARAQABtCVGZXJuYW5kbyBH b250IDxmZ29udEBzaTZuZXR3b3Jrcy5jb20+iQJBBBMBAgArAhsjBQkSzAMABgsJCAcDAgYV CAIJCgsEFgIDAQIeAQIXgAUCTmylpQIZAQAKCRCuJQ1VHU50kv7wD/9fuNtTfxSLk3B3Hs3p ixTy8YXVjdkVwWlnJjFd7BOWmg7sI+LDhpjGfT6+ddOiwkumnvUZpObodj4ysH0i8c7P4C5t F9yu7WjklSlrB5Rth2CGChg5bKt541z2WHkFFxys9qBLmCSYDeKQkzLqhCjIUJizY2kOJ2GI MnSFDzJjhSFEh//oW830Y8fel1xnf/NVF+lBVtRMtMOfoWUqDjvP3sJ1G4zgkDCnF0CfncLx +hq2Mv26Uq9OTzvLH9aSQQ/f067BOkKAJKsfHdborX4E96ISTz57/4xECRSMr5dVsKVm4Y// uVIsb+L5z+a32FaiBZIAKDgnJO7Z8j6CV5e5yfuBTtX52Yi9HjYYqnYJGSDxYd6igD4bWu+7 xmJPHjkdqZgGV6dQIgiUfqkU+s5Cv350vK48CMaT/ZLo2BdsMhWsmaHmb+waePUMyq6E4E9x 9Js+EJb9ZiCfxS9exgieZQpet1L36IvhiwByvkQM009ywfa30JeMOltUtfLi5V06WQWsTzPL 5C+4cpkguSuAJVDTctjCA0moIeVDOpJ8WH9voQ4IeWapQnX35OIoj1jGJqqYdx65gc1ygbyx b8vw+pJ9E5GLse5TQnYifOWpXzX9053dtbwp/2OVhU4KLlzfCPCEsoTyfu9nIZxdI2PMwiL5 M85BfjX4NmwBLmPGoLkCDQRObKNoARAAqqXCkr250BchRDmi+05F5UQFgylUh10XTAJxBeaQ UNtdxZiZRm6jgomSrqeYtricM9t9K0qb4X2ZXmAMW8o8AYW3RrQHTjcBwMnAKzUIEXXWaLfG cid/ygmvWzIHgMDQKP+MUq1AGQrnvt/MRLvZLyczAV1RTXS58qNaxtaSpc3K/yrDozh/a4pu WcUsVvIkzyx43sqcwamDSBb6U8JFoZizuLXiARLLASgyHrrCedNIZdWSx0z0iHEpZIelA2ih AGLiSMtmtikVEyrJICgO81DkKNCbBbPg+7fi23V6M24+3syHk3IdQibTtBMxinIPyLFF0byJ aGm0fmjefhnmVJyCIl/FDkCHprVhTme57G2/WdoGnUvnT7mcwDRb8XY5nNRkOJsqqLPemKjz kx8mXdQbunXtX9bKyVgd1gIl+LLsxbdzRCch773UBVoortPdK3kMyLtZ4uMeDX3comjx+6VL bztUdJ1Zc9/njwVG8fgmQ+0Kj5+bzQfUY+MmX0HTXIx3B4R1I1a8QoOwi1N+iZNdewV5Zfq+ 29NlQLnVPjCRCKbaz9k6RJ2oIti55YUI6zSsL3lmlOXsRbXN5bRswFczkNSCJxJMlDiyAUIC WOay7ymzvgzPa+BY/mYn94vRaurDQ4/ljOfj6oqgfjts+dJev4Jj89vp8MQI3KJpZPEAEQEA AYkCJQQYAQIADwUCTmyjaAIbDAUJEswDAAAKCRCuJQ1VHU50km4xEACho45PZrUjY4Zl2opR DFNo5a6roTOPpgwO9PcBb3I5F8yX2Dnew+9OhgWXbBhAFq4DCx+9Gjs43Bn60qbZTDbLGJ/m 8N4PwEiq0e5MKceYcbetEdEUWhm5L6psU9ZZ82GR3UGxPXYe+oifEoJjOXQ39avf9S8p3yKP Diil0E79rn7LbJjMcgMLyjFg9SDoJ6pHLtniJoDhEAaSSgeV7Y745+gyMIdtQmrFHfqrFdjq D6G0HE+Z68ywc5KN67YxhvhBmSycs1ZSKAXv1zLDlXdmjHDHkU3xMcB+RkuiTba8yRFYwb/n j62CC4NhFTuIKOc4ta3dJsyXTGh/hO9UjWUnmAGfd0fnzTBZF8Qlnw/8ftx5lt4/O+eqY1EN RITScnPzXE/wMOlTtdkddQ+QN6xt6jyR2XtAIi7aAFHypIqA3lLI9hF9x+lj4UQ2yA9LqpoX 6URpPOd13JhAyDe47cwsP1u9Y+OBvQTVLSvw7Liu2b4KjqL4lx++VdBi7dXsjJ6kjIRjI6Lb WVpxe8LumMCuVDepTafBZ49gr7Fgc4F9ZSCo6ChgQNLn6WDzIkqFX+42KuHz90AHWhuW+KZR 1aJylERWeTcMCGUSBptd48KniWmD6kPKpzwoMkJtEXTuO2lVuborxzwuqOTNuYg9lWDl7zKt wPI9brGzquUHy4qRrA== Message-ID: <1193ffb7-143f-7016-41d5-0f0cfbf35ef5@si6networks.com> Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2019 14:37:56 -0300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2019 17:43:13 -0000 On 7/12/19 13:03, Robert Raszuk wrote: > > Exactly - That is why I thought  it does make sense to make this crystal > clear to everyone here.  > > From some comments it seemed that either folks do not understand or want > on purpose to make false assertions only to mud the waters :) FWIW, I will wait for a few days for Suresh to answer the question I have asked, and for the spring chairs and RTG AD to weigh in. That said, I have already begun to write and appeal I'll (initially) direct to the IESG as a whole. Besides, given that there's background to this situation (what happened in the context of rfc2460bis), I will raise the issue in other forums. I guess it should be clear to everyone that we are being mocked at. And I think the situation is unacceptable. Thanks, -- Fernando Gont SI6 Networks e-mail: fgont@si6networks.com PGP Fingerprint: 6666 31C6 D484 63B2 8FB1 E3C4 AE25 0D55 1D4E 7492 From nobody Sat Dec 7 09:50:13 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A849120810; Sat, 7 Dec 2019 09:50:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id T7NN4TENpYOX; Sat, 7 Dec 2019 09:50:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from fgont.go6lab.si (fgont.go6lab.si [91.239.96.14]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 09DA1120809; Sat, 7 Dec 2019 09:50:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.4.77] (unknown [190.179.105.169]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by fgont.go6lab.si (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7696486703; Sat, 7 Dec 2019 18:43:13 +0100 (CET) To: Robert Raszuk Cc: Suresh Krishnan , SPRING WG , Ron Bonica , "int-ads@ietf.org" , Andrew Alston , rtg-ads , Bob Hinden , Ole Troan , Brian E Carpenter References: <4255AD3B-379C-45BF-96E1-D3D9141A684F@liquidtelecom.com> <3bce7b18-ea45-d29f-5dfb-1d3258b07d1e@si6networks.com> <80A78F48-9802-4DA9-B264-1A8920C1DDF9@kaloom.com> From: Fernando Gont Autocrypt: addr=fgont@si6networks.com; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBE5so2gBEACzBQBLUy8nzgAzSZn6ViXT6TmZBFNYNqTpPRvTVtUqF6+tkI+IEd9N2E8p pXUXCd0W4dkxz6o7pagnK63m4QSueggvp881RVVHOF8oTSHOdnGxLfLeLNJFKE1FOutU3vod GK/wG/Fwzkv9MebdXpMlLV8nnJuAt66XGl/lU1JrNfrKO4SoYQi4TsB/waUQcygh7OR/PEO0 EttiU8kZUbZNv58WH+PAj/rdZCrgUSiGXiWUQQKShqKnJxLuAcTcg5YRwL8se/V6ciW0QR9i /sr52gSmLLbW5N3hAoO+nv1V/9SjJAUvzXu43k8sua/XlCXkqU7uLj41CRR72JeUZ4DQsYfP LfNPC98ZGTVxbWbFtLXxpzzDDT8i3uo7w1LJ2Ij/d5ezcARqw01HGljWWxnidUrjbTpxkJ9X EllcsH94mer728j/HKzC9OcTuz6WUBP3Crgl6Q47gY5ZIiF0lsmd9/wxbaq5NiJ+lGuBRZrD v0dQx9KmyI0/pH2AF8cW897/6ypvcyD/1/11CJcN+uAGIrklwJlVpRSbKbFtGC6In592lhu7 wnK8cgyP5cTU+vva9+g6P1wehi4bylXdlKc6mMphbtSA+T3WBNP557+mh3L62l4pGaEGidcZ DLYT2Ud18eAJmxU3HnM8P3iZZgeoK7oqgb53/eg96vkONXNIOwARAQABtCVGZXJuYW5kbyBH b250IDxmZ29udEBzaTZuZXR3b3Jrcy5jb20+iQJBBBMBAgArAhsjBQkSzAMABgsJCAcDAgYV CAIJCgsEFgIDAQIeAQIXgAUCTmylpQIZAQAKCRCuJQ1VHU50kv7wD/9fuNtTfxSLk3B3Hs3p ixTy8YXVjdkVwWlnJjFd7BOWmg7sI+LDhpjGfT6+ddOiwkumnvUZpObodj4ysH0i8c7P4C5t F9yu7WjklSlrB5Rth2CGChg5bKt541z2WHkFFxys9qBLmCSYDeKQkzLqhCjIUJizY2kOJ2GI MnSFDzJjhSFEh//oW830Y8fel1xnf/NVF+lBVtRMtMOfoWUqDjvP3sJ1G4zgkDCnF0CfncLx +hq2Mv26Uq9OTzvLH9aSQQ/f067BOkKAJKsfHdborX4E96ISTz57/4xECRSMr5dVsKVm4Y// uVIsb+L5z+a32FaiBZIAKDgnJO7Z8j6CV5e5yfuBTtX52Yi9HjYYqnYJGSDxYd6igD4bWu+7 xmJPHjkdqZgGV6dQIgiUfqkU+s5Cv350vK48CMaT/ZLo2BdsMhWsmaHmb+waePUMyq6E4E9x 9Js+EJb9ZiCfxS9exgieZQpet1L36IvhiwByvkQM009ywfa30JeMOltUtfLi5V06WQWsTzPL 5C+4cpkguSuAJVDTctjCA0moIeVDOpJ8WH9voQ4IeWapQnX35OIoj1jGJqqYdx65gc1ygbyx b8vw+pJ9E5GLse5TQnYifOWpXzX9053dtbwp/2OVhU4KLlzfCPCEsoTyfu9nIZxdI2PMwiL5 M85BfjX4NmwBLmPGoLkCDQRObKNoARAAqqXCkr250BchRDmi+05F5UQFgylUh10XTAJxBeaQ UNtdxZiZRm6jgomSrqeYtricM9t9K0qb4X2ZXmAMW8o8AYW3RrQHTjcBwMnAKzUIEXXWaLfG cid/ygmvWzIHgMDQKP+MUq1AGQrnvt/MRLvZLyczAV1RTXS58qNaxtaSpc3K/yrDozh/a4pu WcUsVvIkzyx43sqcwamDSBb6U8JFoZizuLXiARLLASgyHrrCedNIZdWSx0z0iHEpZIelA2ih AGLiSMtmtikVEyrJICgO81DkKNCbBbPg+7fi23V6M24+3syHk3IdQibTtBMxinIPyLFF0byJ aGm0fmjefhnmVJyCIl/FDkCHprVhTme57G2/WdoGnUvnT7mcwDRb8XY5nNRkOJsqqLPemKjz kx8mXdQbunXtX9bKyVgd1gIl+LLsxbdzRCch773UBVoortPdK3kMyLtZ4uMeDX3comjx+6VL bztUdJ1Zc9/njwVG8fgmQ+0Kj5+bzQfUY+MmX0HTXIx3B4R1I1a8QoOwi1N+iZNdewV5Zfq+ 29NlQLnVPjCRCKbaz9k6RJ2oIti55YUI6zSsL3lmlOXsRbXN5bRswFczkNSCJxJMlDiyAUIC WOay7ymzvgzPa+BY/mYn94vRaurDQ4/ljOfj6oqgfjts+dJev4Jj89vp8MQI3KJpZPEAEQEA AYkCJQQYAQIADwUCTmyjaAIbDAUJEswDAAAKCRCuJQ1VHU50km4xEACho45PZrUjY4Zl2opR DFNo5a6roTOPpgwO9PcBb3I5F8yX2Dnew+9OhgWXbBhAFq4DCx+9Gjs43Bn60qbZTDbLGJ/m 8N4PwEiq0e5MKceYcbetEdEUWhm5L6psU9ZZ82GR3UGxPXYe+oifEoJjOXQ39avf9S8p3yKP Diil0E79rn7LbJjMcgMLyjFg9SDoJ6pHLtniJoDhEAaSSgeV7Y745+gyMIdtQmrFHfqrFdjq D6G0HE+Z68ywc5KN67YxhvhBmSycs1ZSKAXv1zLDlXdmjHDHkU3xMcB+RkuiTba8yRFYwb/n j62CC4NhFTuIKOc4ta3dJsyXTGh/hO9UjWUnmAGfd0fnzTBZF8Qlnw/8ftx5lt4/O+eqY1EN RITScnPzXE/wMOlTtdkddQ+QN6xt6jyR2XtAIi7aAFHypIqA3lLI9hF9x+lj4UQ2yA9LqpoX 6URpPOd13JhAyDe47cwsP1u9Y+OBvQTVLSvw7Liu2b4KjqL4lx++VdBi7dXsjJ6kjIRjI6Lb WVpxe8LumMCuVDepTafBZ49gr7Fgc4F9ZSCo6ChgQNLn6WDzIkqFX+42KuHz90AHWhuW+KZR 1aJylERWeTcMCGUSBptd48KniWmD6kPKpzwoMkJtEXTuO2lVuborxzwuqOTNuYg9lWDl7zKt wPI9brGzquUHy4qRrA== Message-ID: Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2019 14:42:49 -0300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Penultimate Segment Popping and RFC8200 (Was Re: We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping)) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2019 17:50:11 -0000 On 7/12/19 12:29, Robert Raszuk wrote: > > 2) A related question I have for you: Is IPv6 an end-to-end protocol? > (The answer to this question also serves as an answer for the rest). > > > The moment IPv6 src <--> dst flow makes it legal to be encapsulated you > are dealing with end to end inner IPv6 and end to end outer IPv6.  > > You keep drawing false assumption that inner IPv6 header should mandate > or even influence action on outer IPv6 header which is simply not correct. The online possible instantiation of "Destination Address" as in RFC8200 is the final destination of the packet. As such, if you mangle with mackets anywhere else other than at the final destination, you are violating RFC8200. You don't seem to be reading the spec properly, or are intentionally trying to read it in a very curious way to circumvent it. An honest way to go against specs is to write an Internet-Draft, make a case for going against the spec, and changing it. And convince folks that it makes sense. Another way to do it is by leveraging the power of specific vendors. I clearly don't have that power, but will be loud enough for the community to be aware about what's going on (including the formal appeal process). Thanks, -- Fernando Gont SI6 Networks e-mail: fgont@si6networks.com PGP Fingerprint: 6666 31C6 D484 63B2 8FB1 E3C4 AE25 0D55 1D4E 7492 From nobody Sat Dec 7 09:51:35 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 225EC120812; Sat, 7 Dec 2019 09:51:33 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5IIXE4BBmLyJ; Sat, 7 Dec 2019 09:51:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from fgont.go6lab.si (fgont.go6lab.si [91.239.96.14]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 81C31120810; 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Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <09B00E32-37A1-4F06-81B9-6EE88639BC1D@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2019 17:51:33 -0000 On 7/12/19 12:57, Darren Dukes (ddukes) wrote: > Hi Robert, thank you for injecting clarity to this thread. > > draft-ietf-spring-network-programming defines PSP, and the only relevant > portion of this thread to that draft is Discussion #3. > > As I stated in another post, I consider #3 closed as this is clearly > complying with RFC8200. Sorry Darren. Which wg do you chair? Thanks, -- Fernando Gont SI6 Networks e-mail: fgont@si6networks.com PGP Fingerprint: 6666 31C6 D484 63B2 8FB1 E3C4 AE25 0D55 1D4E 7492 From nobody Sat Dec 7 10:41:00 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 814AD12082B for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2019 10:40:58 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=raszuk.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id F4KifophjE8q for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2019 10:40:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qk1-x72d.google.com (mail-qk1-x72d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::72d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C6804120828 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2019 10:40:55 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qk1-x72d.google.com with SMTP id c16so1069739qko.6 for ; Sat, 07 Dec 2019 10:40:55 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=raszuk.net; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=LHgHs6F00en7DabbyeqyMLAgwsiLMPmqh1KB6cDTclU=; b=ZDyBH1aNQ24gVdV5hodKpTmZi99sFDyRpfW/qJCRkyCYdR7Bj8tSQCqQ506bHSnWqq PgcIwp0zthapxrnKX6CMG8Au+yFUedw36Fctz0e44PkKmhXWkLuJjQEWTNwYdxb9r3lB wYe3oqHOwnWwSIAq7NwFDnJMO1INYt5sUH5V+fiOP8wAw8BCkxLsT7yuSO/VJ5nZxggI 0oG+cP7e+76mjdv6vP9mqhHRzIX16an9YGgawnknWwc7UiF0yRobJNo6D16n2I27xWUJ /tCaTvSZhYvTXJAjMTXDYPDEdq8dy+gsVN8XfVK3E5u10wxmDUggFg8TqC/LNEwL9Miw Ly/Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=LHgHs6F00en7DabbyeqyMLAgwsiLMPmqh1KB6cDTclU=; b=sCnfLs2u28/4T48CnLkq623OrMfyG4rXydpUv+znFhNgPM4sxJTPa39+ohlChnXHrb a8M4kgjPb4S6vw/TATjBLqMl+PrLp4gbpKsTG/d/8xfOECC9Wl7WD3Gnny5LeeIJbMyB MMxVJ3qOEenbX6hTm3gqHR7uU5kMI38MVb1BoVy/ha611g9rKHhqtQh8f3fOVlikgKSm z1L6eoJVRSJW7O3Rb75/iVXPHpZHphrq98cO0NLz+EfjnMZwGODSE3t0rSrV5MYm79QU z41caK8MKowzJdvNBiZAyywiaH2ABDE2PcsdEYhUB7zMMeWgZQ+rx+6mOscpnIUpdJYc l2NA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVShhuOpogwJdAtfGfJd6+5P2eQO2PtGlba+892NbVTJJLLsNPk E3s/CeD2xIdLaA2e0v4R0Jo2GZVuWrKV3iNMcWC8qA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwNTf/7N5zD6gjdoGE3flUMlfD94VdCdug0XdfDfqTBx03fyEn5OMsbQaQENLAf4kaO8GXcsyNaUTHJRIQKIbk= X-Received: by 2002:a37:4a0a:: with SMTP id x10mr13083061qka.302.1575744054627; Sat, 07 Dec 2019 10:40:54 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <4255AD3B-379C-45BF-96E1-D3D9141A684F@liquidtelecom.com> <3bce7b18-ea45-d29f-5dfb-1d3258b07d1e@si6networks.com> <80A78F48-9802-4DA9-B264-1A8920C1DDF9@kaloom.com> In-Reply-To: From: Robert Raszuk Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2019 19:40:46 +0100 Message-ID: To: Fernando Gont Cc: Suresh Krishnan , SPRING WG , Ron Bonica , "int-ads@ietf.org" , Andrew Alston , rtg-ads , Bob Hinden , Ole Troan , Brian E Carpenter Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000a2230c059921807f" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Penultimate Segment Popping and RFC8200 (Was Re: We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping)) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2019 18:40:59 -0000 --000000000000a2230c059921807f Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Fernando, > The online possible instantiation of "Destination Address" as in RFC8200 > is the final destination of the packet. No. That is incorrect. Hint: Please read carefully RFC2473. Please focus on sections: 3.1, 3.2, 3.3, 5.1 etc ... Kindly read this part of section 3.2 at least few times: a tunnel Destination Options extension header is processed *at the tunnel exit-point node.* . . . Upon receiving an IPv6 packet destined to an IPv6 address of a tunnel exit-point node, its IPv6 protocol layer processes the tunnel headers. ... 5.1 Tunnel IPv6 Extension Headers Depending on IPv6 node configuration parameters, a tunnel entry-point node may append to the tunnel IPv6 main header one or more IPv6 extension headers, such as a Hop-by-Hop Options header, a Routing header, or others. ... Then you may continue with your appeal. - - - Darren and others, While this is clear for most folks I see that perhaps any SRv6 spec (NP in particular) should clearly distinguish the notion of final packet destination address from segment endpoint destination address inserted in the encapsulation header. Today document only defines "DA: Destination Address" - I can see why this may confuse some folks as it is used interchangeably with original destination address. IMO it would be a good change to redefined "DA" as "Segment Endpoint Destination Address" and when referring to original packet destination address perhaps call it Original DA (O-DA) and original source address (O-SA). That way there would be no confusion at all (one may hope ;-). Just a hint. Best, Robert --000000000000a2230c059921807f Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Fernando,
=C2= =A0
The online possi= ble instantiation of "Destination Address" as in RFC8200
is the final destination of the packet.

No.= That is incorrect.=C2=A0

Hint: Please read carefu= lly RFC2473.=C2=A0

Please focus on sections: 3.1, = 3.2, 3.3, 5.1 etc ...

Kindly read this part of sec= tion 3.2 at least=C2=A0few times:=C2=A0
=C2=A0
a tunnel Destination Options ex=
tension header is processed at the tunnel exit-point node.

. . . 

   Upon receiving an IPv6 packet destined to an IPv6 address of a tunnel
   exit-point node, its IPv6 protocol layer processes the tunnel
   headers.

...

5.1 Tunnel IPv6 Extension He=
aders


   Depending on IPv6 node configuration parameters, a tunnel entry-point
   node may append to the tunnel IPv6 main header one or more IPv6
   extension headers, such as a Hop-by-Hop Options header, a Routing
   header, or others.

...

Then you may continue with your appeal.=C2=A0

- - -=C2=A0

Darren and others,

While this is clear for most folks I see that perhaps any SRv6 spe= c (NP in particular) should clearly distinguish the notion of final packet = destination address from segment endpoint destination address=C2=A0inserted= in the encapsulation header.=C2=A0

Today document= only defines=C2=A0=C2= =A0"DA: Destination Address" - I can see why this may confuse som= e folks as=C2=A0it is used interchangeably=C2=A0with original destination a= ddress.=C2=A0

IMO it would be a good change to redefined "DA" as "= ;Segment Endpoint Destination Address" and when referring to original = packet destination address perhaps call it Original DA (O-DA) and original = source address (O-SA). That way there would be no confusion at all (one may= hope ;-).=C2=A0

Just a hint.=C2=A0

Best,
Robert

--000000000000a2230c059921807f-- From nobody Sat Dec 7 11:49:42 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0237612082E; Sat, 7 Dec 2019 11:49:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 74TNQwEQT2bi; Sat, 7 Dec 2019 11:49:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pf1-x42d.google.com (mail-pf1-x42d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::42d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 75B1E120086; Sat, 7 Dec 2019 11:49:38 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pf1-x42d.google.com with SMTP id h14so5104364pfe.10; Sat, 07 Dec 2019 11:49:38 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=N/ALmAMuxQ/cpv9N3t+mOW2Kxt+Ldx0+FRGoC1pgC8E=; b=GbJUpzPaqAKabZH/B8EYWEFbzs5s53iO3UbF2qHsVXYB0RgiG3/4yUPQ0RmTZjDcgL CYsI6ZtXwItKLSrxYBTI7h5RseZb0u/eFv1DTuAiRUlrwKtPl6m6VQNczWg6S+IBgQxw U+yERnb9xzZ1KXt5SohUpOb+Nk4KoT/27m62QGa5A8XodvOsvhb5WdIGm3gqa29APeT/ FWbCdoUV3CiOcsrCtxH1ZoXTQi1+6xujcKyng6ODuQoxPoE5ayod0G8Zs8r978HGRB2L DCiAZ/Yfap/n/xZkribV9ki1qMt3J9PnzfvAs/h/tR59I6zwqtQhIrUYRsBbxfq9AvLy wVpg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=N/ALmAMuxQ/cpv9N3t+mOW2Kxt+Ldx0+FRGoC1pgC8E=; b=mNGbHD4P457Bp+4VEwikwTGFJCuInecHyiVP45mestpDHKm2Clv5muIM9EAUuGvyR5 DbDUn4o4XBHVyZAPpRrawEK9Y7+dLCZuEHHsJCOJ/DksBK2OIPlXW/ebXGvZehV8KxYR YtAFjq/az1m4L4C59rua4vFjvqBJtRAVpJ6at7V4ILGyy4oG6kVxTnFuUo3+lV1pDuDA 8SPvt+Vckdt/+UEB+Nnh6ngi9Xr0+gaBE/3zNbBiHNL/l9duseenP5Z5BAumzlBkn5pz O23E+LrerqT+0TBhYlZNJXYb4FW9eC6TgBAt9mFcx4JBCVbJ8c2k6r+YiY0jQjNGV0Zr SdOg== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAX5cpTcnHpWYhNyL/vasrWp1QuBmhfLFRsOQ4zGplaS8ooXm4Ts GZ834wH9Rm3iV1DDKJAlMug= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxjZ3fNWrNLsny0OLAVmmG8CVMh3nDS4fwGsqcDqe7ARgwF/ZVDmtBg/6TIJNquugfS+lZc9w== X-Received: by 2002:a65:5608:: with SMTP id l8mr10792576pgs.210.1575748177760; Sat, 07 Dec 2019 11:49:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.178.30] (228.147.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz. [111.69.147.228]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id b2sm4405684pjq.3.2019.12.07.11.49.33 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 07 Dec 2019 11:49:36 -0800 (PST) To: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" , Suresh Krishnan , Fernando Gont , SPRING WG Cc: Ron Bonica , "int-ads@ietf.org" , Andrew Alston , rtg-ads , Bob Hinden , Ole Troan References: <4255AD3B-379C-45BF-96E1-D3D9141A684F@liquidtelecom.com> <3bce7b18-ea45-d29f-5dfb-1d3258b07d1e@si6networks.com> <80A78F48-9802-4DA9-B264-1A8920C1DDF9@kaloom.com> From: Brian E Carpenter Message-ID: Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2019 08:49:29 +1300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Penultimate Segment Popping and RFC8200 (Was Re: We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping)) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2019 19:49:41 -0000 Ketan, On 07-Dec-19 23:13, Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) wrote: > +1 >=20 > =C2=A0 >=20 > For some strange reason the PSP behaviour is being mixed with EH insert= ion and likely there is some misunderstanding here. I found the language in draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming very h= ard to understand, and your comment and those from Robert Raszuk really d= on't clear it up. No insult intended, but it seems that SRH exponents are= so close to SRH that you don't understand why others find it hard to und= erstand. So let me ask for clarification on three points in the draft. (Please kee= p me in CC as I'm not on the spring list.) (1) Where the draft uses the word "insert", does it refer *only* to the e= ncapsulating node at the SR domain ingress? (2) What does the phrase ""Pop the SRH" mean? Does it mean "delete" a hea= der inserted as in (1), at the same time as decapsulating the packet? (3) In *very* elementary language, what is "updated SL" in statement S14.= 2? It isn't defined elsewhere as far as I can see. It may just be sloppy = writing, because if "Segments Left" is a variable, then perhaps "updated = SL" just means the current value of "Segments Left" after executing S14. With specific answers to those questions, the text would be easier to int= erpret. Some diagrams of the encapsulation would be helpful, too. Regards Brian >=20 > =C2=A0 >=20 > Fernando says: >=20 >=20 > (pop when you are the destination but SL!=3D0 is essentially 'in the > network removal=E2=80=99) >=20 > =C2=A0 >=20 > This is NOT what PSP is (refer https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-s= pring-srv6-network-programming-05#section-4.16.1) =E2=80=93 the =E2=80=9C= pop=E2=80=9D is done when the SL becomes 0. >=20 > =C2=A0 >=20 > FWIW, this has been stated in different ways and clarified on the maili= ng list previously by the authors as well as others involved in SRv6 deve= lopment and deployments. There is no violation of RFC8200 here. >=20 > =C2=A0 >=20 > Thanks, >=20 > Ketan >=20 > =C2=A0 >=20 > *From:*spring *On Behalf Of *Suresh Krishnan > *Sent:* 07 December 2019 12:50 > *To:* Fernando Gont ; SPRING WG > *Cc:* Ron Bonica ; int-ads@ietf= =2Eorg; Andrew Alston ; rtg-ads ; Bob Hinden ; Ole Troan ; Brian E Carpenter > *Subject:* [spring] Penultimate Segment Popping and RFC8200 (Was Re: We= don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network Programming - Penu= ltimate Segment Popping)) >=20 > =C2=A0 >=20 > (responding on spring mailing list) >=20 > =C2=A0 >=20 > Hi Fernando, >=20 >=20 >=20 > On Dec 7, 2019, at 11:07 AM, Fernando Gont > wrote: >=20 > =C2=A0 >=20 > On 6/12/19 23:47, Brian E Carpenter wrote: >=20 > Again, comment at the end... > On 07-Dec-19 14:37, Fernando Gont wrote: >=20 > On 6/12/19 22:15, Brian E Carpenter wrote: > [...] >=20 >=20 >=20 > and if such a thing is required, an update to RFC82= 00 should be done. >=20 >=20 > Why does that follow? Alternatively, draft-ietf-spring-= srv6-network-programming could acknowledge that it deviates from RFC8200.= >=20 >=20 > You can deviate from s "should", not from a "must". This is= an outright > violation of a spec, rather than a mere "deviation". >=20 >=20 >=20 > Whether that's acceptable would be a question for the I= ETF Last Call rather than any single WG. >=20 >=20 > I would expect that a WG cannot ship a document that is vio= lating an > existing spec, where the wg shipping the document is not in= a position > of making decisions regarding the spec being violated. >=20 > That would be like a waste of energy and time for all. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > At the moment, the draft only mentions RFC8200 in a con= text that discusses neither insertion nor removal of extension headers, w= hich is beside the point. Like draft-voyer, if it describes a violation o= f RFC8200, shouldn't that be explicit in the text? >=20 > There's a lot of jargon in draft-ietf-spring-srv6-netwo= rk-programming. I can't tell from the jargon whether "insert" means "inse= rt on the fly" and whether "Pop the SRH" means "delete on the fly". Shoul= d those terms be clarified before the draft advances? >=20 >=20 > Well, if it's not clear to you, it would seem to me that th= e simple > answer would be "yes". >=20 >=20 > But if "insert" refers to the encapsulating node at the SR doma= in ingress, it's no problem, and if "pop" simply means doing normal routi= ng header processing, it's no problem. It simply isn't clear in the text,= at least not clear to me. >=20 >=20 > The fact that a folk that has been deeply involved with IPv6 cannot= > unequivocally tell what they talking about should be an indication = with > respect to how ready the document is to be shipped. >=20 > (pop when you are the destination but SL!=3D0 is essentially 'in th= e > network removal=E2=80=99) >=20 > =C2=A0 >=20 > It is not obvious to me why you think this is a violation of RFC8200 th= ough it is possible that I misread your comment. The relevant text I am l= ooking at is >=20 > =C2=A0 >=20 > " =C2=A0Extension headers (except for the Hop-by-Hop Options header) ar= e not >=20 > =C2=A0 =C2=A0processed, inserted, or deleted by any node along a packet= 's delivery >=20 > =C2=A0 =C2=A0path, until the packet reaches the node (or each of the se= t of nodes, >=20 > =C2=A0 =C2=A0in the case of multicast) identified in the Destination Ad= dress field >=20 > =C2=A0 =C2=A0of the IPv6 header.=E2=80=9D >=20 > =C2=A0 >=20 > which seems to permit it. Can you please clarify where there is a viola= tion? >=20 > =C2=A0 >=20 > Regards >=20 > Suresh >=20 From nobody Sat Dec 7 13:26:51 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BD6112082F for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2019 13:26:49 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AW9dAIJ-qf2z for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2019 13:26:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from mta7.iomartmail.com (mta7.iomartmail.com [62.128.193.157]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3974212004A for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2019 13:26:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from vs1.iomartmail.com (vs1.iomartmail.com [10.12.10.121]) by mta7.iomartmail.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id xB7LQjsb006573; Sat, 7 Dec 2019 21:26:45 GMT Received: from vs1.iomartmail.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by IMSVA (Postfix) with ESMTP id F12D62207F; Sat, 7 Dec 2019 21:26:44 +0000 (GMT) Received: from asmtp3.iomartmail.com (unknown [10.12.10.224]) by vs1.iomartmail.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DC3F32207E; Sat, 7 Dec 2019 21:26:44 +0000 (GMT) Received: from LAPTOPK7AS653V ([84.93.96.25]) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp3.iomartmail.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id xB7LQiFd023455 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Sat, 7 Dec 2019 21:26:44 GMT Reply-To: From: "Adrian Farrel" To: "'Brian E Carpenter'" , "'SPRING WG'" References: <4255AD3B-379C-45BF-96E1-D3D9141A684F@liquidtelecom.com> <3bce7b18-ea45-d29f-5dfb-1d3258b07d1e@si6networks.com> <80A78F48-9802-4DA9-B264-1A8920C1DDF9@kaloom.com> In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2019 21:26:43 -0000 Organization: Old Dog Consulting Message-ID: <04b601d5ad45$062786a0$127693e0$@olddog.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQFGAnnmlEKLPVHeDLpaNkShcWbBAwFMr39dAkCPsKMBugG/wAIcmGotAXkY5CQB74zAKAJfz7/sAdMGP9cCGMSP0qhFw6gw Content-Language: en-gb X-Originating-IP: 84.93.96.25 X-Thinkmail-Auth: adrian@olddog.co.uk X-TM-AS-GCONF: 00 X-TM-AS-Product-Ver: IMSVA-9.0.0.1623-8.2.0.1013-25090.003 X-TM-AS-Result: No--24.310-10.0-31-10 X-imss-scan-details: No--24.310-10.0-31-10 X-TMASE-Version: IMSVA-9.0.0.1623-8.2.1013-25090.003 X-TMASE-Result: 10--24.309600-10.000000 X-TMASE-MatchedRID: IeZYkn8zfFrgQ1B1MOCRzT/vQrzBjp6UNtQas3JOHmjaOIP2b6ZfX9Rl myjfMuuvG86r2sytqhn2xPYX08NXspNLuA4iPC3wTNDKZy5/hvQYOnQDwWp0xC62hjZS0WoYkKa 0W/D+XilDQvyrk4qfvJZ7rfN9VJLwTGrxUPD863Lmu6GrtSORDxmyTBaqiJvcRP5pzC9VlZg3jG r4Y9HXMX4GcCB9LiTQ4slG5grepOg9YosDr+D/+/HkpkyUphL9yeUl7aCTy8hQdwGfvSIlB0Y/F nCqVhStybz368KglmEBU9vJN4D7byWcfeJKQl9YuoibJpHRrFlnXBVFJwvSMAAheUymmndfcQ2a h832eukQSK75DSbBzo4FH7MC6NcGEnaXhoxT5343X0+M8lqGUjdI0wuKhB4t6NfipxutJCf5vLc kcCULVMlov5iwmAe67Gg2NYxPtKgeMiLfxDfeySQ7ls378/zHJuJX9LfoIjj7jZ40qn7f4fznNg amBrh08vwsrbfwnUSDGJYLgMxhqF0ieHN50/kHLyz9QvAyHjqpvf+jmz45w8Hx9l2YYLoQt0LfP CopieE3Opzody2+qtCWKyZBDwPhoIutGEGtrEMD2WXLXdz+ATmKihe1K2IeC/U4++8MvOwjXowQ GjrACs0YxsHTpdZNo1iPgKgiLB1UHLGrNupy0FyuZHgmvm5ozIs/K2gEmgWiyxjC+6hq+4tYef8 EoZUCTs5apCH0JNKDSuJUOBtVJPx8QbDyWf2LLjsmuOashGK8xE2H2EuMWTXSEULATMS5Laxx5K hV9JQQ4ddDw+W7F2itnBG1/u/BCa4ersRYGFqeAiCmPx4NwFkMvWAuahr8m5N2YHMD0b8MyrfP9 j+C1d934/rDAK3zUc1+O1X9AzE= X-TMASE-SNAP-Result: 1.821001.0001-0-1-12:0,22:0,33:0,34:0-0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Penultimate Segment Popping and RFC8200 (Was Re: We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping)) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2019 21:26:49 -0000 [Hmmm, there were a lot of people in the to/cc fields. I trimmed a bit = because (hopefully) some of them are subscribed to the mailing lists.] Brian, I think some of the notion of "popping an SRH" may be associated with = the idea of having more than one SRH present. Whether that is a good = idea is a different question. Cheers, Adrian -----Original Message----- From: spring On Behalf Of Brian E Carpenter Sent: 07 December 2019 19:49 To: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) ; Suresh Krishnan = ; Fernando Gont ; SPRING WG = Cc: Ron Bonica ; = int-ads@ietf.org; Andrew Alston ; = rtg-ads ; Bob Hinden ; Ole Troan = Subject: Re: [spring] Penultimate Segment Popping and RFC8200 (Was Re: = We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network Programming - = Penultimate Segment Popping)) Ketan, On 07-Dec-19 23:13, Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) wrote: > +1 >=20 > =20 >=20 > For some strange reason the PSP behaviour is being mixed with EH = insertion and likely there is some misunderstanding here. I found the language in draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming very = hard to understand, and your comment and those from Robert Raszuk really = don't clear it up. No insult intended, but it seems that SRH exponents = are so close to SRH that you don't understand why others find it hard to = understand. So let me ask for clarification on three points in the draft. (Please = keep me in CC as I'm not on the spring list.) (1) Where the draft uses the word "insert", does it refer *only* to the = encapsulating node at the SR domain ingress? (2) What does the phrase ""Pop the SRH" mean? Does it mean "delete" a = header inserted as in (1), at the same time as decapsulating the packet? (3) In *very* elementary language, what is "updated SL" in statement = S14.2? It isn't defined elsewhere as far as I can see. It may just be = sloppy writing, because if "Segments Left" is a variable, then perhaps = "updated SL" just means the current value of "Segments Left" after = executing S14. With specific answers to those questions, the text would be easier to = interpret. Some diagrams of the encapsulation would be helpful, too. Regards Brian >=20 > =20 >=20 > Fernando says: >=20 >=20 > (pop when you are the destination but SL!=3D0 is essentially 'in the > network removal=E2=80=99) >=20 > =20 >=20 > This is NOT what PSP is (refer = https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-05= #section-4.16.1) =E2=80=93 the =E2=80=9Cpop=E2=80=9D is done when the SL = becomes 0. >=20 > =20 >=20 > FWIW, this has been stated in different ways and clarified on the = mailing list previously by the authors as well as others involved in = SRv6 development and deployments. There is no violation of RFC8200 here. >=20 > =20 >=20 > Thanks, >=20 > Ketan >=20 > =20 >=20 > *From:*spring *On Behalf Of *Suresh Krishnan > *Sent:* 07 December 2019 12:50 > *To:* Fernando Gont ; SPRING WG = > *Cc:* Ron Bonica ; = int-ads@ietf.org; Andrew Alston ; = rtg-ads ; Bob Hinden ; Ole Troan = ; Brian E Carpenter > *Subject:* [spring] Penultimate Segment Popping and RFC8200 (Was Re: = We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network Programming - = Penultimate Segment Popping)) >=20 > =20 >=20 > (responding on spring mailing list) >=20 > =20 >=20 > Hi Fernando, >=20 >=20 >=20 > On Dec 7, 2019, at 11:07 AM, Fernando Gont > wrote: >=20 > =20 >=20 > On 6/12/19 23:47, Brian E Carpenter wrote: >=20 > Again, comment at the end... > On 07-Dec-19 14:37, Fernando Gont wrote: >=20 > On 6/12/19 22:15, Brian E Carpenter wrote: > [...] >=20 >=20 >=20 > and if such a thing is required, an update to = RFC8200 should be done. >=20 >=20 > Why does that follow? Alternatively, = draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming could acknowledge that it = deviates from RFC8200. >=20 >=20 > You can deviate from s "should", not from a "must". This = is an outright > violation of a spec, rather than a mere "deviation". >=20 >=20 >=20 > Whether that's acceptable would be a question for the = IETF Last Call rather than any single WG. >=20 >=20 > I would expect that a WG cannot ship a document that is = violating an > existing spec, where the wg shipping the document is not = in a position > of making decisions regarding the spec being violated. >=20 > That would be like a waste of energy and time for all. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > At the moment, the draft only mentions RFC8200 in a = context that discusses neither insertion nor removal of extension = headers, which is beside the point. Like draft-voyer, if it describes a = violation of RFC8200, shouldn't that be explicit in the text? >=20 > There's a lot of jargon in = draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming. I can't tell from the jargon = whether "insert" means "insert on the fly" and whether "Pop the SRH" = means "delete on the fly". Should those terms be clarified before the = draft advances? >=20 >=20 > Well, if it's not clear to you, it would seem to me that = the simple > answer would be "yes". >=20 >=20 > But if "insert" refers to the encapsulating node at the SR = domain ingress, it's no problem, and if "pop" simply means doing normal = routing header processing, it's no problem. It simply isn't clear in the = text, at least not clear to me. >=20 >=20 > The fact that a folk that has been deeply involved with IPv6 = cannot > unequivocally tell what they talking about should be an indication = with > respect to how ready the document is to be shipped. >=20 > (pop when you are the destination but SL!=3D0 is essentially 'in = the > network removal=E2=80=99) >=20 > =20 >=20 > It is not obvious to me why you think this is a violation of RFC8200 = though it is possible that I misread your comment. The relevant text I = am looking at is >=20 > =20 >=20 > " Extension headers (except for the Hop-by-Hop Options header) are = not >=20 > processed, inserted, or deleted by any node along a packet's = delivery >=20 > path, until the packet reaches the node (or each of the set of = nodes, >=20 > in the case of multicast) identified in the Destination Address = field >=20 > of the IPv6 header.=E2=80=9D >=20 > =20 >=20 > which seems to permit it. Can you please clarify where there is a = violation? >=20 > =20 >=20 > Regards >=20 > Suresh >=20 _______________________________________________ spring mailing list spring@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring From nobody Sat Dec 7 14:06:42 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37F0B12083A; Sat, 7 Dec 2019 14:06:35 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id E2HxTO_sW83P; Sat, 7 Dec 2019 14:06:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pf1-x42e.google.com (mail-pf1-x42e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::42e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 97527120834; Sat, 7 Dec 2019 14:06:33 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pf1-x42e.google.com with SMTP id s18so5205224pfd.8; Sat, 07 Dec 2019 14:06:33 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=WGZfTqNKsx33K8NRxwbS4UJjPQVZgps8yHnopJKIX5g=; b=kLMMIe1MPcv6U/hPuwjnHno6i+kSvv+48reEPxbIkJuC5LAnOMDw1TdLJxqosYK1eW Dvtaj8FC03Pc6QiLPUlVlaIXUtIah+8nAOXusbxF0Uan5xzmZdeNlCtiaqsCGxaEVYOB KM1e+DqedqUvIN67LL9soDmghGsS0465smZrC8jZJf74Us0Ia2jYV6miOlDd55Kg802L qhBnlHc2wgANd6ETZwlIK+b8pnTbXXbXDu95HRnN/aZ6eJYD12TNW2CqFwp1lFXfHcl1 sjc21LOVQLOFoA+hHDm6cgsmDCF5I447Fmah7db7HDPzSIcNyYoh12XPzsmNnfN3rHEo f23A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=WGZfTqNKsx33K8NRxwbS4UJjPQVZgps8yHnopJKIX5g=; b=ZJBf6GtJfq4955kaAi27u7qtNqa1Iah4gTxAJgYyhMYFL8da9otBnAbkuis6NRNJ1M SN9um+/Wdum/Z7S4Ce9Z1K36alRz1tTjBoMbYZYa0YFrJPfTwsnlYdOGZFe7+3BapXqP PTMMeBvqAqIx+o1i6GA3BTR2KsfqpbhetR+F1KORE0aoyUkJeY63eTd0hrhNMJCh5ps2 j2EKb5trYoriz3j7EHzrTjuRDvNv7dtXghRyP1hcST9ErYR6bD2gBzXUkdOTwwSsLf3L PIyVqMkowyjqy2C0hzwt+N7Dlgi9cmqAmlT5j3cmBjhBURf6Es6bVBW4C3NyY0aO68XQ GUXg== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAX/BdysfDPklNZLUv44ThxTQiAwYKzw6fPX4ybbsJiE4zyU9C8E LDuhrf8wJmzLlkvzahxvB7s= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzX0a5dLv0vycaLEPtBkLoQ0qCBM7Sb7G4GrquE2C3PzW/an92PsStrGKDC+L2Fb0P4bAqAnQ== X-Received: by 2002:a65:41cd:: with SMTP id b13mr11157147pgq.385.1575756393081; Sat, 07 Dec 2019 14:06:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.178.30] (228.147.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz. [111.69.147.228]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id p124sm21694411pfb.52.2019.12.07.14.06.28 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 07 Dec 2019 14:06:31 -0800 (PST) To: Robert Raszuk , Fernando Gont Cc: Andrew Alston , Ole Troan , Ron Bonica , SPRING WG , 6man <6man@ietf.org>, "int-ads@ietf.org" , rtg-ads , Bob Hinden References: <4255AD3B-379C-45BF-96E1-D3D9141A684F@liquidtelecom.com> <3bce7b18-ea45-d29f-5dfb-1d3258b07d1e@si6networks.com> From: Brian E Carpenter Message-ID: Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2019 11:06:25 +1300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2019 22:06:35 -0000 On 08-Dec-19 00:47, Robert Raszuk wrote: ... > Besides the pseudocode says it black and white "S14.1. If (updated SL == 0) As I already pointed out, "updated SL" is undefined in the text and may in fact simply mean "Segments Left" after executing S14. Pseudocode really should be unambiguous. Regards Brian From nobody Sat Dec 7 18:46:57 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D68A812003F; Sat, 7 Dec 2019 18:46:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AhfbjX4NcdRs; Sat, 7 Dec 2019 18:46:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from fgont.go6lab.si (fgont.go6lab.si [91.239.96.14]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 61DAF120033; Sat, 7 Dec 2019 18:46:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from [172.16.55.86] (unknown [186.10.243.58]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by fgont.go6lab.si (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4861586646; Sun, 8 Dec 2019 03:46:44 +0100 (CET) To: Robert Raszuk Cc: Suresh Krishnan , SPRING WG , Ron Bonica , "int-ads@ietf.org" , Andrew Alston , rtg-ads , Bob Hinden , Ole Troan , Brian E Carpenter References: <4255AD3B-379C-45BF-96E1-D3D9141A684F@liquidtelecom.com> <3bce7b18-ea45-d29f-5dfb-1d3258b07d1e@si6networks.com> <80A78F48-9802-4DA9-B264-1A8920C1DDF9@kaloom.com> From: Fernando Gont Autocrypt: addr=fgont@si6networks.com; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBE5so2gBEACzBQBLUy8nzgAzSZn6ViXT6TmZBFNYNqTpPRvTVtUqF6+tkI+IEd9N2E8p pXUXCd0W4dkxz6o7pagnK63m4QSueggvp881RVVHOF8oTSHOdnGxLfLeLNJFKE1FOutU3vod GK/wG/Fwzkv9MebdXpMlLV8nnJuAt66XGl/lU1JrNfrKO4SoYQi4TsB/waUQcygh7OR/PEO0 EttiU8kZUbZNv58WH+PAj/rdZCrgUSiGXiWUQQKShqKnJxLuAcTcg5YRwL8se/V6ciW0QR9i /sr52gSmLLbW5N3hAoO+nv1V/9SjJAUvzXu43k8sua/XlCXkqU7uLj41CRR72JeUZ4DQsYfP LfNPC98ZGTVxbWbFtLXxpzzDDT8i3uo7w1LJ2Ij/d5ezcARqw01HGljWWxnidUrjbTpxkJ9X EllcsH94mer728j/HKzC9OcTuz6WUBP3Crgl6Q47gY5ZIiF0lsmd9/wxbaq5NiJ+lGuBRZrD v0dQx9KmyI0/pH2AF8cW897/6ypvcyD/1/11CJcN+uAGIrklwJlVpRSbKbFtGC6In592lhu7 wnK8cgyP5cTU+vva9+g6P1wehi4bylXdlKc6mMphbtSA+T3WBNP557+mh3L62l4pGaEGidcZ DLYT2Ud18eAJmxU3HnM8P3iZZgeoK7oqgb53/eg96vkONXNIOwARAQABtCVGZXJuYW5kbyBH b250IDxmZ29udEBzaTZuZXR3b3Jrcy5jb20+iQJBBBMBAgArAhsjBQkSzAMABgsJCAcDAgYV CAIJCgsEFgIDAQIeAQIXgAUCTmylpQIZAQAKCRCuJQ1VHU50kv7wD/9fuNtTfxSLk3B3Hs3p ixTy8YXVjdkVwWlnJjFd7BOWmg7sI+LDhpjGfT6+ddOiwkumnvUZpObodj4ysH0i8c7P4C5t F9yu7WjklSlrB5Rth2CGChg5bKt541z2WHkFFxys9qBLmCSYDeKQkzLqhCjIUJizY2kOJ2GI MnSFDzJjhSFEh//oW830Y8fel1xnf/NVF+lBVtRMtMOfoWUqDjvP3sJ1G4zgkDCnF0CfncLx +hq2Mv26Uq9OTzvLH9aSQQ/f067BOkKAJKsfHdborX4E96ISTz57/4xECRSMr5dVsKVm4Y// uVIsb+L5z+a32FaiBZIAKDgnJO7Z8j6CV5e5yfuBTtX52Yi9HjYYqnYJGSDxYd6igD4bWu+7 xmJPHjkdqZgGV6dQIgiUfqkU+s5Cv350vK48CMaT/ZLo2BdsMhWsmaHmb+waePUMyq6E4E9x 9Js+EJb9ZiCfxS9exgieZQpet1L36IvhiwByvkQM009ywfa30JeMOltUtfLi5V06WQWsTzPL 5C+4cpkguSuAJVDTctjCA0moIeVDOpJ8WH9voQ4IeWapQnX35OIoj1jGJqqYdx65gc1ygbyx b8vw+pJ9E5GLse5TQnYifOWpXzX9053dtbwp/2OVhU4KLlzfCPCEsoTyfu9nIZxdI2PMwiL5 M85BfjX4NmwBLmPGoLkCDQRObKNoARAAqqXCkr250BchRDmi+05F5UQFgylUh10XTAJxBeaQ UNtdxZiZRm6jgomSrqeYtricM9t9K0qb4X2ZXmAMW8o8AYW3RrQHTjcBwMnAKzUIEXXWaLfG cid/ygmvWzIHgMDQKP+MUq1AGQrnvt/MRLvZLyczAV1RTXS58qNaxtaSpc3K/yrDozh/a4pu WcUsVvIkzyx43sqcwamDSBb6U8JFoZizuLXiARLLASgyHrrCedNIZdWSx0z0iHEpZIelA2ih AGLiSMtmtikVEyrJICgO81DkKNCbBbPg+7fi23V6M24+3syHk3IdQibTtBMxinIPyLFF0byJ aGm0fmjefhnmVJyCIl/FDkCHprVhTme57G2/WdoGnUvnT7mcwDRb8XY5nNRkOJsqqLPemKjz kx8mXdQbunXtX9bKyVgd1gIl+LLsxbdzRCch773UBVoortPdK3kMyLtZ4uMeDX3comjx+6VL bztUdJ1Zc9/njwVG8fgmQ+0Kj5+bzQfUY+MmX0HTXIx3B4R1I1a8QoOwi1N+iZNdewV5Zfq+ 29NlQLnVPjCRCKbaz9k6RJ2oIti55YUI6zSsL3lmlOXsRbXN5bRswFczkNSCJxJMlDiyAUIC WOay7ymzvgzPa+BY/mYn94vRaurDQ4/ljOfj6oqgfjts+dJev4Jj89vp8MQI3KJpZPEAEQEA AYkCJQQYAQIADwUCTmyjaAIbDAUJEswDAAAKCRCuJQ1VHU50km4xEACho45PZrUjY4Zl2opR DFNo5a6roTOPpgwO9PcBb3I5F8yX2Dnew+9OhgWXbBhAFq4DCx+9Gjs43Bn60qbZTDbLGJ/m 8N4PwEiq0e5MKceYcbetEdEUWhm5L6psU9ZZ82GR3UGxPXYe+oifEoJjOXQ39avf9S8p3yKP Diil0E79rn7LbJjMcgMLyjFg9SDoJ6pHLtniJoDhEAaSSgeV7Y745+gyMIdtQmrFHfqrFdjq D6G0HE+Z68ywc5KN67YxhvhBmSycs1ZSKAXv1zLDlXdmjHDHkU3xMcB+RkuiTba8yRFYwb/n j62CC4NhFTuIKOc4ta3dJsyXTGh/hO9UjWUnmAGfd0fnzTBZF8Qlnw/8ftx5lt4/O+eqY1EN RITScnPzXE/wMOlTtdkddQ+QN6xt6jyR2XtAIi7aAFHypIqA3lLI9hF9x+lj4UQ2yA9LqpoX 6URpPOd13JhAyDe47cwsP1u9Y+OBvQTVLSvw7Liu2b4KjqL4lx++VdBi7dXsjJ6kjIRjI6Lb WVpxe8LumMCuVDepTafBZ49gr7Fgc4F9ZSCo6ChgQNLn6WDzIkqFX+42KuHz90AHWhuW+KZR 1aJylERWeTcMCGUSBptd48KniWmD6kPKpzwoMkJtEXTuO2lVuborxzwuqOTNuYg9lWDl7zKt wPI9brGzquUHy4qRrA== Message-ID: <885c9ad6-ddd2-392a-7e9f-722509753e2d@si6networks.com> Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2019 21:55:13 -0300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Penultimate Segment Popping and RFC8200 (Was Re: We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping)) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 08 Dec 2019 02:46:55 -0000 On 7/12/19 15:40, Robert Raszuk wrote: > Hi Fernando, >   > > The online possible instantiation of "Destination Address" as in RFC8200 > is the final destination of the packet. > > > No. That is incorrect.  > > Hint: Please read carefully RFC2473. If you think a document on tunnels rules how IPv6 operates, and its end-to-endianness, then you have a huge problem reading specs. So I will not enter that game, because it would be accepting to be mocked at. I'll wait for a few days for our INT AD's response (Suresh), a response from the spring chairs (if any), and a response from the RTG AD(s). Then I will escalate the problem as required, including a formal appeal, if necessary. Thanks, -- Fernando Gont SI6 Networks e-mail: fgont@si6networks.com PGP Fingerprint: 6666 31C6 D484 63B2 8FB1 E3C4 AE25 0D55 1D4E 7492 From nobody Sun Dec 8 02:15:49 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B379612000F for ; Sun, 8 Dec 2019 02:15:47 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=raszuk.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZWDuDNCZ1LYO for ; Sun, 8 Dec 2019 02:15:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qt1-x82d.google.com (mail-qt1-x82d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::82d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E96731200B2 for ; Sun, 8 Dec 2019 02:15:45 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qt1-x82d.google.com with SMTP id g1so12345652qtj.6 for ; Sun, 08 Dec 2019 02:15:45 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=raszuk.net; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=Z7IBoAY6b2jMKtCPWbmmOVIS3bR8QKcYTCQoZ3HDZns=; b=W+ppx929csd+r/R8X+QwECowDCd7FueW/hYe33zxS1gx4JlBBVsNJOwKQIhktT5zxL XxvAWh3MEswqXHJelzokz8iEgGjiHCD+la+lFDK78IjXP3pX0ulXxu3PJ/2QYt5MWQzu gSZBf0phIP25/p440Rvz3lK+rMwcNUIvznRPZzbNet6fQhvfokWcV3IGTq7e1bFAyXK3 CnvURSs0nBwEwbqpYpeGYZR/4pFWekm8umQ7QHkW+P4Thh5KEwf+66SsUGIZ/65wjs2u xrHU4z4eVXd29uadfO7ARj7y3E1p3k+yzNTBUrevD8iyrZxvLbiPYPyw/PN4uJmYxbVb xaOA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=Z7IBoAY6b2jMKtCPWbmmOVIS3bR8QKcYTCQoZ3HDZns=; b=TIQzuhRnAO5zIsUBx85P5THS3Ock+GRkE+Okl1d3E3cwIEqZ+oDlzdagMKJABuQJB+ xFVrbti+KReSMDtFzcW92wDD6foF6YykJD0zy3wvU9eCNhMhS1GPY98E084R4E4djxQf Lgo5ybMOsl+eNDF7499lUQJ8ggUtgFuPlNcV/MjVt/C2URtWdG8Hk9xeuAhv2Yn0jJkT a1l49H+hz5UVzEfMPuWfJLOysy+5mViRvO42PX1LSnH829xGDDMWNZgTZKexa6IzjJJ9 Rw8n9HfBAuRYad5XUVibMzfYylsVL0FaD4y0/YspGOBBmxG0SIOqgM2rfDLqbtpXv2mb heiw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVEx8PftiyLytofS6J4MavqAyPWt2wzkgxv5rTrb3kdTR9zqhib qmrVkPoKTxw1Tt7nLfJyNhg+7LKLgBvpxtomqyP6PQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyTaCJixNdWMd5abz8KhZEPBhc6zu6792riI7Revbg1jkhb/4n1nyR1yJMAmDWHw9Ab9DSa9g3ssBj6Eqtoq44= X-Received: by 2002:ac8:5245:: with SMTP id y5mr21101515qtn.343.1575800144957; Sun, 08 Dec 2019 02:15:44 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <4255AD3B-379C-45BF-96E1-D3D9141A684F@liquidtelecom.com> <3bce7b18-ea45-d29f-5dfb-1d3258b07d1e@si6networks.com> <80A78F48-9802-4DA9-B264-1A8920C1DDF9@kaloom.com> <885c9ad6-ddd2-392a-7e9f-722509753e2d@si6networks.com> In-Reply-To: <885c9ad6-ddd2-392a-7e9f-722509753e2d@si6networks.com> From: Robert Raszuk Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2019 11:15:34 +0100 Message-ID: To: Fernando Gont Cc: Suresh Krishnan , SPRING WG , Ron Bonica , "int-ads@ietf.org" , Andrew Alston , rtg-ads , Bob Hinden , Ole Troan , Brian E Carpenter Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000e0a84b05992e8f88" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Penultimate Segment Popping and RFC8200 (Was Re: We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping)) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 08 Dec 2019 10:15:48 -0000 --000000000000e0a84b05992e8f88 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > If you think a document on tunnels rules how IPv6 operates, and its > end-to-endianness, then you have a huge problem reading specs. So in your view building any solution which relies on encapsulation/tunneling for IPv6 kills its end-to-endianness dogma then this is a very interesting individual WG member comment. In the meantime till IETF moves Standards Track RFC2473 to historic status or updates it with some other spec it remains a valid document. Cheers, Robert. On Sun, Dec 8, 2019 at 3:46 AM Fernando Gont wrote: > On 7/12/19 15:40, Robert Raszuk wrote: > > Hi Fernando, > > > > > > The online possible instantiation of "Destination Address" as in > RFC8200 > > is the final destination of the packet. > > > > > > No. That is incorrect. > > > > Hint: Please read carefully RFC2473. > > If you think a document on tunnels rules how IPv6 operates, and its > end-to-endianness, then you have a huge problem reading specs. > > So I will not enter that game, because it would be accepting to be > mocked at. > > I'll wait for a few days for our INT AD's response (Suresh), a response > from the spring chairs (if any), and a response from the RTG AD(s). > > Then I will escalate the problem as required, including a formal appeal, > if necessary. > > Thanks, > -- > Fernando Gont > SI6 Networks > e-mail: fgont@si6networks.com > PGP Fingerprint: 6666 31C6 D484 63B2 8FB1 E3C4 AE25 0D55 1D4E 7492 > > > > > --000000000000e0a84b05992e8f88 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

>=C2=A0 If = you think a document on tunnels rules how IPv6 operates, and its
<= div dir=3D"ltr">>=C2=A0 end-to-endianness, then you have a huge problem = reading specs.=C2=A0

So in your view b= uilding any solution which relies on encapsulation/tunneling for IPv6 kills= its end-to-endianness dogma then this is a very interesting individual WG = member comment.=C2=A0

In the meantime till IETF mo= ves Standards Track=C2=A0 RFC2473 to historic status or updates it with som= e other spec it remains a valid document.=C2=A0

Ch= eers,
Robert.


On Sun, Dec 8, 2019 at 3:= 46 AM Fernando Gont <fgont@si6n= etworks.com> wrote:
On 7/12/19 15:40, Robert Raszuk wrote:
> Hi Fernando,
> =C2=A0
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0The online possible instantiation of "Destinat= ion Address" as in RFC8200
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0is the final destination of the packet.
>
>
> No. That is incorrect.=C2=A0
>
> Hint: Please read carefully RFC2473.

If you think a document on tunnels rules how IPv6 operates, and its
end-to-endianness, then you have a huge problem reading specs.

So I will not enter that game, because it would be accepting to be
mocked at.

I'll wait for a few days for our INT AD's response (Suresh), a resp= onse
from the spring chairs (if any), and a response from the RTG AD(s).

Then I will escalate the problem as required, including a formal appeal, if necessary.

Thanks,
--
Fernando Gont
SI6 Networks
e-mail: fgont@si= 6networks.com
PGP Fingerprint: 6666 31C6 D484 63B2 8FB1 E3C4 AE25 0D55 1D4E 7492




--000000000000e0a84b05992e8f88-- From nobody Sun Dec 8 02:23:03 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 794A91200B4; Sun, 8 Dec 2019 02:23:01 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0SgC3Vmbx_rd; Sun, 8 Dec 2019 02:23:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from fgont.go6lab.si (fgont.go6lab.si [91.239.96.14]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4554612000F; Sun, 8 Dec 2019 02:23:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.32.25] (unknown [186.65.0.145]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by fgont.go6lab.si (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 407CE86300; Sun, 8 Dec 2019 11:22:51 +0100 (CET) To: Robert Raszuk Cc: Ron Bonica , SPRING WG , "int-ads@ietf.org" , Andrew Alston , rtg-ads , Bob Hinden , Brian E Carpenter , Ole Troan , Suresh Krishnan References: <4255AD3B-379C-45BF-96E1-D3D9141A684F@liquidtelecom.com> <3bce7b18-ea45-d29f-5dfb-1d3258b07d1e@si6networks.com> <80A78F48-9802-4DA9-B264-1A8920C1DDF9@kaloom.com> <885c9ad6-ddd2-392a-7e9f-722509753e2d@si6networks.com> From: Fernando Gont Autocrypt: addr=fgont@si6networks.com; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBE5so2gBEACzBQBLUy8nzgAzSZn6ViXT6TmZBFNYNqTpPRvTVtUqF6+tkI+IEd9N2E8p pXUXCd0W4dkxz6o7pagnK63m4QSueggvp881RVVHOF8oTSHOdnGxLfLeLNJFKE1FOutU3vod GK/wG/Fwzkv9MebdXpMlLV8nnJuAt66XGl/lU1JrNfrKO4SoYQi4TsB/waUQcygh7OR/PEO0 EttiU8kZUbZNv58WH+PAj/rdZCrgUSiGXiWUQQKShqKnJxLuAcTcg5YRwL8se/V6ciW0QR9i /sr52gSmLLbW5N3hAoO+nv1V/9SjJAUvzXu43k8sua/XlCXkqU7uLj41CRR72JeUZ4DQsYfP LfNPC98ZGTVxbWbFtLXxpzzDDT8i3uo7w1LJ2Ij/d5ezcARqw01HGljWWxnidUrjbTpxkJ9X EllcsH94mer728j/HKzC9OcTuz6WUBP3Crgl6Q47gY5ZIiF0lsmd9/wxbaq5NiJ+lGuBRZrD v0dQx9KmyI0/pH2AF8cW897/6ypvcyD/1/11CJcN+uAGIrklwJlVpRSbKbFtGC6In592lhu7 wnK8cgyP5cTU+vva9+g6P1wehi4bylXdlKc6mMphbtSA+T3WBNP557+mh3L62l4pGaEGidcZ DLYT2Ud18eAJmxU3HnM8P3iZZgeoK7oqgb53/eg96vkONXNIOwARAQABtCVGZXJuYW5kbyBH b250IDxmZ29udEBzaTZuZXR3b3Jrcy5jb20+iQJBBBMBAgArAhsjBQkSzAMABgsJCAcDAgYV CAIJCgsEFgIDAQIeAQIXgAUCTmylpQIZAQAKCRCuJQ1VHU50kv7wD/9fuNtTfxSLk3B3Hs3p ixTy8YXVjdkVwWlnJjFd7BOWmg7sI+LDhpjGfT6+ddOiwkumnvUZpObodj4ysH0i8c7P4C5t F9yu7WjklSlrB5Rth2CGChg5bKt541z2WHkFFxys9qBLmCSYDeKQkzLqhCjIUJizY2kOJ2GI MnSFDzJjhSFEh//oW830Y8fel1xnf/NVF+lBVtRMtMOfoWUqDjvP3sJ1G4zgkDCnF0CfncLx +hq2Mv26Uq9OTzvLH9aSQQ/f067BOkKAJKsfHdborX4E96ISTz57/4xECRSMr5dVsKVm4Y// uVIsb+L5z+a32FaiBZIAKDgnJO7Z8j6CV5e5yfuBTtX52Yi9HjYYqnYJGSDxYd6igD4bWu+7 xmJPHjkdqZgGV6dQIgiUfqkU+s5Cv350vK48CMaT/ZLo2BdsMhWsmaHmb+waePUMyq6E4E9x 9Js+EJb9ZiCfxS9exgieZQpet1L36IvhiwByvkQM009ywfa30JeMOltUtfLi5V06WQWsTzPL 5C+4cpkguSuAJVDTctjCA0moIeVDOpJ8WH9voQ4IeWapQnX35OIoj1jGJqqYdx65gc1ygbyx b8vw+pJ9E5GLse5TQnYifOWpXzX9053dtbwp/2OVhU4KLlzfCPCEsoTyfu9nIZxdI2PMwiL5 M85BfjX4NmwBLmPGoLkCDQRObKNoARAAqqXCkr250BchRDmi+05F5UQFgylUh10XTAJxBeaQ UNtdxZiZRm6jgomSrqeYtricM9t9K0qb4X2ZXmAMW8o8AYW3RrQHTjcBwMnAKzUIEXXWaLfG cid/ygmvWzIHgMDQKP+MUq1AGQrnvt/MRLvZLyczAV1RTXS58qNaxtaSpc3K/yrDozh/a4pu WcUsVvIkzyx43sqcwamDSBb6U8JFoZizuLXiARLLASgyHrrCedNIZdWSx0z0iHEpZIelA2ih AGLiSMtmtikVEyrJICgO81DkKNCbBbPg+7fi23V6M24+3syHk3IdQibTtBMxinIPyLFF0byJ aGm0fmjefhnmVJyCIl/FDkCHprVhTme57G2/WdoGnUvnT7mcwDRb8XY5nNRkOJsqqLPemKjz kx8mXdQbunXtX9bKyVgd1gIl+LLsxbdzRCch773UBVoortPdK3kMyLtZ4uMeDX3comjx+6VL bztUdJ1Zc9/njwVG8fgmQ+0Kj5+bzQfUY+MmX0HTXIx3B4R1I1a8QoOwi1N+iZNdewV5Zfq+ 29NlQLnVPjCRCKbaz9k6RJ2oIti55YUI6zSsL3lmlOXsRbXN5bRswFczkNSCJxJMlDiyAUIC WOay7ymzvgzPa+BY/mYn94vRaurDQ4/ljOfj6oqgfjts+dJev4Jj89vp8MQI3KJpZPEAEQEA AYkCJQQYAQIADwUCTmyjaAIbDAUJEswDAAAKCRCuJQ1VHU50km4xEACho45PZrUjY4Zl2opR DFNo5a6roTOPpgwO9PcBb3I5F8yX2Dnew+9OhgWXbBhAFq4DCx+9Gjs43Bn60qbZTDbLGJ/m 8N4PwEiq0e5MKceYcbetEdEUWhm5L6psU9ZZ82GR3UGxPXYe+oifEoJjOXQ39avf9S8p3yKP Diil0E79rn7LbJjMcgMLyjFg9SDoJ6pHLtniJoDhEAaSSgeV7Y745+gyMIdtQmrFHfqrFdjq D6G0HE+Z68ywc5KN67YxhvhBmSycs1ZSKAXv1zLDlXdmjHDHkU3xMcB+RkuiTba8yRFYwb/n j62CC4NhFTuIKOc4ta3dJsyXTGh/hO9UjWUnmAGfd0fnzTBZF8Qlnw/8ftx5lt4/O+eqY1EN RITScnPzXE/wMOlTtdkddQ+QN6xt6jyR2XtAIi7aAFHypIqA3lLI9hF9x+lj4UQ2yA9LqpoX 6URpPOd13JhAyDe47cwsP1u9Y+OBvQTVLSvw7Liu2b4KjqL4lx++VdBi7dXsjJ6kjIRjI6Lb WVpxe8LumMCuVDepTafBZ49gr7Fgc4F9ZSCo6ChgQNLn6WDzIkqFX+42KuHz90AHWhuW+KZR 1aJylERWeTcMCGUSBptd48KniWmD6kPKpzwoMkJtEXTuO2lVuborxzwuqOTNuYg9lWDl7zKt wPI9brGzquUHy4qRrA== Message-ID: Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2019 07:22:28 -0300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Penultimate Segment Popping and RFC8200 (Was Re: We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping)) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 08 Dec 2019 10:23:01 -0000 On 8/12/19 07:15, Robert Raszuk wrote: > >>  If you think a document on tunnels rules how IPv6 operates, and its >>  end-to-endianness, then you have a huge problem reading specs.  > > So in your view building any solution which relies on > encapsulation/tunneling for IPv6 kills its end-to-endianness dogma then > this is a very interesting individual WG member comment. Insertion/removal of EHs on the path to the destination kills it. Yes. You can do whatever you please if you are at the node identified by the Source Address of the packet, or at its final destination. Thanks, -- Fernando Gont SI6 Networks e-mail: fgont@si6networks.com PGP Fingerprint: 6666 31C6 D484 63B2 8FB1 E3C4 AE25 0D55 1D4E 7492 From nobody Sun Dec 8 04:49:12 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F22B12007A; Sun, 8 Dec 2019 04:49:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.3 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.3 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=steffann.nl Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id b9F0XyTjuDlM; Sun, 8 Dec 2019 04:49:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.sintact.nl (mail.sintact.nl [83.247.10.6]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 13FC612000F; Sun, 8 Dec 2019 04:49:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.sintact.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60A3E49; Sun, 8 Dec 2019 13:49:07 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=steffann.nl; h= x-mailer:references:message-id:date:date:in-reply-to:from:from :subject:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-type:received :received; s=mail; t=1575809345; bh=K8T6WAb1q0brtVV6G9k9fVhAA5Uo QUWzcWZ5cWX4dZ4=; b=c+nY4ppi5/ee3bN3+ttDYHmzdBO6Y0kBdQEniywNLKcL 4WoogVToK33gmdU3PHo/9WuWzGB9gGSKj8yB/iMu/FOxbZtx9DkfB54iG5zF4WfK GZIQDvPq+hFfRYWLGbjCdHRasQ4AX0evisc5WugDADuEjPEQD5BvTHd36WN/aLg= X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at mail.sintact.nl Received: from mail.sintact.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.sintact.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id apUpKHFlrss7; Sun, 8 Dec 2019 13:49:05 +0100 (CET) Received: from [IPv6:2a02:a213:a300:ce80:48c4:a854:5031:6d89] (unknown [IPv6:2a02:a213:a300:ce80:48c4:a854:5031:6d89]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mail.sintact.nl (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id AAB813C; Sun, 8 Dec 2019 13:49:04 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_4A1B8EAA-6186-4921-BD92-A92D3138E3EA"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha256 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.0 \(3594.4.19\)) X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett From: Sander Steffann In-Reply-To: <324D4E35-97E8-42A2-912F-27C9FE033879@employees.org> Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2019 13:49:03 +0100 Cc: Mark Smith , 6man WG , SPRING WG Message-Id: References: <10E890EA-3278-44EE-881E-EBC91D419587@employees.org> <88287cb0-c0c3-f990-4dd7-338df87c7fb2@joelhalpern.com> <4E76C386-FB1E-4E48-814D-BB626466BEE3@employees.org> <324D4E35-97E8-42A2-912F-27C9FE033879@employees.org> To: Ole Troan X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3594.4.19) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] IPv6 header insertion in a controlled domain X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 08 Dec 2019 12:49:11 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_4A1B8EAA-6186-4921-BD92-A92D3138E3EA Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi Ole, > I am not suggesting that header insertion is the _best_ approach. That = I tihnk has to be evaluated on a per use case basis. > I just want to see if we can reach agreement that it's a solution = candidate, that given the deployment restrictions is technically sound. If the mechanisms to make sure the rest of the internet doesn't need to = suffer from header insertion are in place and reliable, then I don't = care much what other operators do on their network. The IETF is about = interoperability, and as long as others don't cause me trouble they can = do whatever they want on their network. As Randy would say: "I'd = recommend all my competitors to do header insertion" :) As you said: whether header insertion is appropriate is something that = everybody can decide for themselves on a per use case basis. And based on my own experience and the research done by Fernando et all, = I decide that header insertion isn't going to happen on my networks. So = back to SPRING: I want a solution that works without header insertion = (reasons given above). Please work on such a solution. I want to be able = to choose an appropriate solution for my network, and something that = includes header insertion isn't it. If the feelings about the = architectural decision are so strongly opposite, we clearly need = multiple solutions to choose from. Cheers, Sander --Apple-Mail=_4A1B8EAA-6186-4921-BD92-A92D3138E3EA Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEEl13OIanoifT0p8LWWPjdc9pon8sFAl3s8T8ACgkQWPjdc9po n8sk0w/9HIWMeDdRy+edZ7c3ONxnWgmz6eb2pExYfcIaUu2Oe5jX8nAb1i2ODhbZ I91xn1ZLc2kidFhr5qwPp05rmjCTHwiGo6q9vWzlk5mFyUIr39QHz9jJS8zGCCsM FKu5LuW9iC25MftQf70qKw5BkWyErRtGtyypPvPbmMFRTXPd/0UOrWjAHnTNg3aV EsBkAnay53LwfLOnhz2gmswfdwZnojEJDHUvxrOgzrfruHSEIfqg3co8r7qWly8E CKAL5jxpqVOPOf/VxvY88cvPnkvp+VpxQU/N71rnNZb1j+ni/goIN0JQR1atdXa9 CpXGs+/QAqBVImyREwGC1H/rrQKH3hHMfZ9M9P69ixt1iqp0f0xGQGc4hGq4mSDF VHKfDdx2xA2T4bfVCTeXEZyS6ZHP+s+YXFDYgt7H1i01BqvRU2FL4hVgKWJ5IeoG XV/gkmBry48DYYfyLPKXvsTG9cC/2OJeq3G3hbwqYiRQH31gHFhCiJlrO1+iBBUb czATykyNQLS4iQp1K90r1G5KDkJ1Ry3RqaqIsTu95vmd/3tWca+/HbktglLkSRDy kLsT9tWL85IMMNYGyJ+FMpCdtJQ4bYYXWMwiqOUbgP3hV/ETy+ppztY6fyjvGzSL q5m7/djXdfdYzv0O0foiYrTfCZFBnn+LzHl7AweY1s39Xr407M0= =5yyW -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_4A1B8EAA-6186-4921-BD92-A92D3138E3EA-- From nobody Sun Dec 8 12:19:00 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4551D12007C for ; Sun, 8 Dec 2019 12:18:59 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.701 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.701 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=joelhalpern.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4A7wjqkJh_am for ; Sun, 8 Dec 2019 12:18:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailb2.tigertech.net (mailb2.tigertech.net [208.80.4.154]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0AF21120071 for ; Sun, 8 Dec 2019 12:18:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailb2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47WHhx6n7tz1nsNm for ; Sun, 8 Dec 2019 12:18:57 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=joelhalpern.com; s=2.tigertech; t=1575836337; bh=q5Exosp5bYCmzWMHsL/ZFgS5ddLDlkWHKGKfAYFUMjU=; h=To:From:Subject:Date:From; b=VbdOkT3wKTEnbfYH+z4/fBt7+MYkOHHT7ja2bxrNccYuEPDRbx02awn02SCdN3q8V /V3t1+c7u4aR60/L4TL34AJR8xv6/XV4THdtxNsN69XQ8yeXtUY0sqLJZxVee40B/g xUE5grXlOvsH6r/y7TOybqsKpHjtNLhweTffi4pw= X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at b2.tigertech.net Received: from [192.168.128.43] (209-255-163-147.ip.mcleodusa.net [209.255.163.147]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mailb2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 47WHhx3kbZz1ns6S for ; Sun, 8 Dec 2019 12:18:57 -0800 (PST) To: "spring@ietf.org" From: "Joel M. Halpern" Message-ID: <5e9b7c7e-db34-eeda-dba1-1d9663766611@joelhalpern.com> Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2019 15:18:55 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: [spring] SRv6 Network programming minor detail X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 08 Dec 2019 20:18:59 -0000 In reading section 3.1 on the SID format, I noticed a small inconsitency with a large impact. My guess is that either I am misreading the text, or there is a typo. The first part of the section talks about LOC:FUNCT and is clear that this uses all 128 bits of the IPv6 address. I think I understand that. Later in the section, in talking about arguments, it says "LOC:FUNCT:ARGS::". Is the final :: intended? That seems to require that the entire thing fit in the upper 64 bits of the IPv6 address. Which I believe is not intended. I would have expected simply "LOC:FUNCT:ARGS". 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boundary="_000_BN7PR05MB5699E6A97709C2E631839998AE580BN7PR05MB5699namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: bad36dcc-389a-446d-0ec9-08d77c52766a X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 09 Dec 2019 02:49:51.0470 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: RtLkCUUkDaX8CXvppChnzB1haM+6b47XnfIyZbhOBXJlwhW3whwwFIsQun4HI4jVU3tZ7bhzNivJ65eACw4kWA== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN7PR05MB6275 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.95,18.0.572 definitions=2019-12-08_07:2019-12-05,2019-12-08 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_spam_notspam policy=outbound_spam score=0 priorityscore=1501 mlxscore=0 suspectscore=0 clxscore=1015 impostorscore=0 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 malwarescore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 phishscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-1910280000 definitions=main-1912090023 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2019 02:49:58 -0000 --_000_BN7PR05MB5699E6A97709C2E631839998AE580BN7PR05MB5699namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bruno, Please add the following to the list of last call comments to be tracked: * https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/2BvW_aGaEsOfRclrE4-ctEGb= TZs * https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/t8Bm_kQdV2rTlxtvYss5KPY1= KlI * https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/nfzSTbLy24FLOd5h-52Hfr5z= EnU = Ron Juniper Business Use Only From: ipv6 On Behalf Of bruno.decraene@orange.com Sent: Thursday, December 5, 2019 12:15 PM To: 'SPRING WG List' Cc: 6man@ietf.org; draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming Subject: WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming Hello SPRING, This email starts a two weeks Working Group Last Call on draft-ietf-spring-= srv6-network-programming [1]. Please read this document if you haven't read the most recent version, and = send your comments to the SPRING WG list, no later than December 20. You may copy the 6MAN WG for IPv6 related comment, but consider not duplica= ting emails on the 6MAN mailing list for the comments which are only spring= specifics. If you are raising a point which you expect will be specifically debated on= the mailing list, consider using a specific email/thread for this point. This may help avoiding that the thread become specific to this point and th= at other points get forgotten (or that the thread get converted into parall= el independent discussions) Thank you, Bruno [1] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-= 05 ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el= ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been = modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. --_000_BN7PR05MB5699E6A97709C2E631839998AE580BN7PR05MB5699namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Bruno,

 

Please add the following to the list of last call co= mments to be tracked:

 

 

        &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;    Ron

 

 

 

Juniper Business Use Only

From: ipv6 <ipv6-bounces@ietf.org> O= n Behalf Of bruno.decraene@orange.com
Sent: Thursday, December 5, 2019 12:15 PM
To: 'SPRING WG List' <spring@ietf.org>
Cc: 6man@ietf.org; draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming <dr= aft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming@ietf.org>
Subject: WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming

 

Hello SPRING,
 
This email starts a two weeks Working Group Last Call on draft-ietf-sp=
ring-srv6-network-programming [1].
 
Please read this document if you haven't read the most recent version,=
 and send your comments to the SPRING WG list, no later than December 20.
 
You may copy the 6MAN WG for IPv6 related comment, but consider not du=
plicating emails on the 6MAN mailing list for the comments which are only s=
pring specifics.
 
If you are raising a point which you expect will be specifically debat=
ed on the mailing list, consider using a specific email/thread for this poi=
nt.
This may help avoiding that the thread become specific to this point a=
nd that other points get forgotten (or that the thread get converted into p=
arallel independent discussions)
 
Thank you,
Bruno
 
[1] https://tools.ietf.org=
/html/draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-05
 

 

____________________________________________________=
_____________________________________________________________________<=
/o:p>
 
Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir de=
s informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisa=
tion. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces j=
ointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a =
ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci.
 
This message and its attachments may contain confide=
ntial or privileged information that may be protected by law;
they should not be distributed, used or copied witho=
ut authorisation.
If you have received this email in error, please not=
ify the sender and delete this message and its attachments.
As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for m=
essages that have been modified, changed or falsified.

Thank you.
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List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2019 07:52:25 -0000 ------=_001_NextPart060340416154_=---- Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGkgU3VyZXNoLCBSb24gYW5kIGFsbCwNCg0KUm9uIGlzIHRyeWluZyB0byBjb3JyZWN0IHRoZSBi ZWhhdmlvcnMgZm9yIFBTUCBhbHRob3VnaCBpdCBzaG91bGQgYmUgYWNjZXB0ZWQgb3Igbm90IGlz IHN0aWxsIHVuZGVyIGRpc2N1c3Npb24uIEFjY29yZGluZyB0byB0aGUgdGV4dCBpbiBkcmFmdC1p ZXRmLXNwcmluZy1zcnY2LW5ldHdvcmstcHJvZ3JhbW1pbmctMDUsIHRoZSBiZWhhdmlvcnMgZm9y ICBQU1AgYXJlIGFzIGZvbGxvd3MsIE5leHQgSGVhZGVyIHVwZGF0ZSBhbmQgUGF5bG9hZCBMZW5n dGggdXBkYXRlIGFyZSBub3QgbWVudGlvbmVkLg0KDQpTMTIuIERlY3JlbWVudCBIb3AgTGltaXQg YnkgMQ0KUzEzLiBEZWNyZW1lbnQgU2VnbWVudHMgTGVmdCBieSAxDQpTMTQuIFVwZGF0ZSBJUHY2 IERBIHdpdGggU2VnbWVudCBMaXN0W1NlZ21lbnRzIExlZnRdDQpTMTQuMS4gSWYgKHVwZGF0ZWQg U0wgPT0gMCkgew0KUzE0LjIuICAgICBQb3AgdGhlIFNSSA0KUzE0LjMuIH0NClMxNS4gUmVzdWJt aXQgdGhlIHBhY2tldCB0byB0aGUgZWdyZXNzIElQdjYgRklCIGxvb2t1cCBhbmQgdHJhbnNtaXNz 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Hi Suresh, Ron and all,

Ron is t= rying to correct the behaviors for PSP although it should be accepted or no= t is still under discussion. According to the text in draft-ietf-spring-srv= 6-network-programming-05, the behaviors for  PSP are as follows, Next Header update and&nbs= p;Payload Length update are not m= entioned.

S12. Decrement Hop Limit by 1
S13. Decrement Segmen= ts Left by 1
S14. Update IPv6 DA with Segment List[Segments Left]=
S14.1. If (updated SL =3D=3D 0) {
S14.2.   &= nbsp; Pop the SRH
S14.3. }
S15. Resubmit the pack= et to the egress IPv6 FIB lookup and transmission to the new = destination
=0A=

<= span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14.6667px; line-= height: 22px; background-color: transparent;">I pointed out this in https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/s= pring/o7uJ5BiHY9WKhwL69PwbSVrzw-Q and our dear editor Pablo admitted NH should be updat= ed. However, I don't know why the text in version 5 is not updated accordin= gly till it goes to WGLC. Comments should be accommodated in the document n= ot merely noted in the list. 

Best Regards,
Zhenqiang Li
=0A=
li_zhenqiang@hotmail.com
=0A=
 
From: Ron Bonica
Date: 2019-12-= 07 20:09
To: Suresh Krishnan; <= a href=3D"mailto:spring@ietf.org" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: un= derline;">SPRING WG
Subject:=  [spring] PHP - Deep Listening (was: RE: Separating issues)
=0A= =0A=
=0A=

Suresh,

=0A=

 

=0A=

Fair enough. Let=E2=80=99s review PHP, w= ith open minds, and see if the motivation merits the proposed behavior=E2= =80=A6.

=0A=

 

=0A=

Assume that an SRv6 node receives the fo= llowing packet:

=0A=

 

=0A=
    =0A=
  • IPv6 header. Destination A= ddress =3D=3D LOCATOR:0x0002 (0x0002 indicates that this is and end with PS= P)
  • IPv6 hea= der. Next Header =3D=3D Routing Header
  • Routing header. Routing Type  =3D=3D SRH
  • Routing head= er. Segments Left =3D=3D 1
=0A=

 

=0A=

According to the NP draft, the nodes sho= uld:

=0A=

 

=0A=
    =0A=
  • Copy SID[0] to IPv6 header= . Destination Address
  • Update IPv6 header. Next Header
  • Update IPv6 header, Payload Length
  • Remove the Routin= g Header
=0A=

 

=0A=

Now that we understand how PHP works, we= can compare PHP to a more orthodox alternative. That is, to decrement Segm= ents Left (to 0) and forward the packet without PHP. Downstream nodes SHOUL= D ignore the SRH, because Segments Left is equal=0A= to 0.

=0A=

 

=0A=

The following are possible benefits of P= HP:

=0A=

 

=0A=
    =0A=
  • To save bandwidth on the f= inal segment
  • Others?
=0A=

 

=0A=

Do either of these motivations merit the= variation from the more orthodox IPv6 processing?

=0A=

 

=0A=

      &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;       Ron

=0A=

 

=0A=

 

=0A=

 

=0A=

=0A= Juniper Business Use Only

=0A=
=0A=
=0A=

From: Suresh Krishnan <Suresh@= kaloom.com>
=0A= Sent: Saturday, December 7, 2019 2:14 AM
=0A= To: 6man <6man@ietf.org>; SPRING WG <spring@ietf.org>=0A= Cc: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>; Andrew Al= ston <Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com>; Ole Troan <otroan@employee= s.org>; Ron Bonica <rbonica@juniper.net>; int-ads@ietf.org; rtg-ad= s <rtg-ads@ietf.org>; Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com>;=0A= Fernando Gont <fgont@si6networks.com>
=0A= Subject: Separating issues (was Re: [spring] We don't seem to be fol= lowing our processes (Re: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping= ))

=0A=
=0A=
=0A=

 

=0A=
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(Apologies up front. I am about to get o= n a 10 hr flight and will be unable to respond for at least that period)

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Hi all,

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  Picking the last message in the t= hread to reply to. It looks to me that there are at least two different (bu= t related) issues being discussed here

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a) Spring SRv6 NP behavior (related to t= he WGLC of that draft)

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b) The Header insertion drafts and how t= o deal with them

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I really think that 

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a) should preferably stay in the spring = ML and a pointer to the discussion sent to the 6man mailing list would be i= n order

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b) should preferably stay in the 6man ML=

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=0A=
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I think the communities for the two draf= ts are different and I think the discussions can be more focused if the iss= ues are addressed by the relevant wgs. As to what happens if the spring dra= ft hits the IESG and contains text in violation=0A= of RFC8200, I had already sent my thoughts about this back in September

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with the relevant text <= /p>=0A=

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"If a draft violates RFC8200 and it= hits the IESG for evaluation, I will certainly hold a DISCUSS position unt= il the violations are fixed.=E2=80=9D

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*In my view*, the authors of the SRv6 NP= draft have made an effort to address these violations by removing the head= er insertion from the draft. We can continue discussing whether penultimate= hop popping constitutes a violation on the spring=0A= mailing list (I intend to respond to Fernando=E2=80=99a mail there).<= /o:p>

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Thanks

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Suresh

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On Dec 7, 2019, at 11:07 AM, Fernando Go= nt <fgont@si6networks.com> wrote:

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On 6/12/19 23:47, Brian E Carpenter wrot= e:

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Again, comment at the end...
=0A= On 07-Dec-19 14:37, Fernando Gont wrote:

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On 6/12/19 22:15, Brian E Carpenter wrot= e:
=0A= [...]

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and if such a thing is required, an upda= te to RFC8200 should be done.

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=0A= Why does that follow? Alternatively, draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-program= ming could acknowledge that it deviates from RFC8200.

=0A=
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=0A= You can deviate from s "should", not from a "must". Thi= s is an outright
=0A= violation of a spec, rather than a mere "deviation".
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Whether that's acceptable would be a que= stion for the IETF Last Call rather than any single WG.

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=0A= I would expect that a WG cannot ship a document that is violating an
=0A= existing spec, where the wg shipping the document is not in a position
= =0A= of making decisions regarding the spec being violated.
=0A=
=0A= That would be like a waste of energy and time for all.
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=0A=
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At the moment, the draft only mentions R= FC8200 in a context that discusses neither insertion nor removal of extensi= on headers, which is beside the point. Like draft-voyer, if it describes a = violation of RFC8200, shouldn't that be explicit=0A= in the text?
=0A=
=0A= There's a lot of jargon in draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming. I ca= n't tell from the jargon whether "insert" means "insert on t= he fly" and whether "Pop the SRH" means "delete on the = fly". Should those terms be clarified before the draft advances?<= /o:p>

=0A=
=0A=


=0A= Well, if it's not clear to you, it would seem to me that the simple
=0A= answer would be "yes".

=0A=
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=0A= But if "insert" refers to the encapsulating node at the SR domain= ingress, it's no problem, and if "pop" simply means doing normal= routing header processing, it's no problem. It simply isn't clear in the t= ext, at least not clear to me.

=0A=
=0A=


=0A= The fact that a folk that has been deeply involved with IPv6 cannot
=0A= unequivocally tell what they talking about should be an indication with
= =0A= respect to how ready the document is to be shipped.
=0A=
=0A= (pop when you are the destination but SL!=3D0 is essentially 'in the
=0A= network removal')
=0A=
=0A= THanks,
=0A= --
=0A= Fernando Gont
=0A= SI6 Networks
=0A= e-mail: fgont@si6networks.com
=0A= PGP Fingerprint: 6666 31C6 D484 63B2 8FB1 E3C4 AE25 0D55 1D4E 7492
=0A=
=0A=
=0A=

=0A=
=0A=
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=0A= = ------=_001_NextPart060340416154_=------ From nobody Mon Dec 9 00:29:30 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 398B7120130; Mon, 9 Dec 2019 00:29:28 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id URns0jSoS318; Mon, 9 Dec 2019 00:29:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-io1-xd2d.google.com (mail-io1-xd2d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d2d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FBAC120118; Mon, 9 Dec 2019 00:29:25 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-io1-xd2d.google.com with SMTP id c16so13821433ioh.6; Mon, 09 Dec 2019 00:29:25 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=B7U5gsSRei6qXhpi/mJEL1PoEZI09ei6ImG/imo+KyI=; b=qfrX7b8+Np7ccBZ5aomEgCk5BFJLbdwcd6nRlm3qm3fPeCqQj/yCaiYh0hWabaJXk1 mRk6lUajJQMFDMVoAfPF9pw9mWpnKJGc/eqjggeiQPiLJB+slTXG2/jKL2KT9jpwy70x t1Cv0WlzAz+m76HhcZjgKhxn4Yvwz5u8g1L1AOSiUblijlwSA8Cxj0J5wELQHrM2rEY5 S3aRLZA4PNnBH+lIGjY+XFbsUUVGHEtv76oXh/IN6rXNu0J1i8XjfGtXv2Ovpip1Qukh 21PrQcExc9EoKfWFwvykCYsdJU7os6LxTuLa8nTVn4WiAsNK2aOrHN0Qr029bvyScfZm c5Zg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=B7U5gsSRei6qXhpi/mJEL1PoEZI09ei6ImG/imo+KyI=; b=lcCZdEub55peP1Q3/CnmjBRUtFDCcPOcuQ2ak/qjtCvG/FWL8FOOxNC8j4I8GvELom vPrkbeWanKyhb6bEWmAhIc8VjkClW5ze9XUP/cAJotb239mPpywTrTS1O0xR7qiJuqYt qBDrHFHFADxX9KbhAW4FegbKdhzokfcH/T9z7ErpEymCPHI/8PGFS0DKXnSdPQ7eOj+/ NPTxlsPxGlJ+0/bOmYBuCxihmxJPuMffWYCwlUQngNnZLMfiSfbnhqkKO6soJcvlny8Y lA/lphFqzFZsXpew1jz5p+g2rhJ2iyXo+6UTr6I7PsZ2I1pbFKTBJo+ArEJ09mWhmq7I X97g== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUFUmuI5QVKJc6z5r8mHfvJYXztBz5WODhyu7RAbRGp/G+5BtVl lPEn3Ia1edFea0G+OfSwy03K9Fn5qcf/7PUKFFQ= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwHDFCy9G/YTti6PnDcHg/M11XR2x0dolTgMXfipwEsqrEr5wxx0LvULnrsLfJNdXI5Xaz/IbMLqI2bPpbm02w= X-Received: by 2002:a5d:9e0a:: with SMTP id h10mr19698180ioh.276.1575880164255; Mon, 09 Dec 2019 00:29:24 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <157287479954.16520.4462959984993498664.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D9353BF28@DGGEMM532-MBX.china.huawei.com> <45FA30A4-1246-4E57-94D5-6123310E9844@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <45FA30A4-1246-4E57-94D5-6123310E9844@gmail.com> From: Gyan Mishra Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2019 03:29:13 -0500 Message-ID: To: Lizhenbin Cc: Chongfeng Xie , Feng Zhao , Hui Tian , Jichun Ma , Tong Li , Xiaoyaqun , "ipv6@ietf.org" , "spring@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000662fb50599413157" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] New Version Notification for draft-tian-spring-srv6-deployment-consideration-00.txt X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2019 08:29:28 -0000 --000000000000662fb50599413157 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Lizhenbin & authors of spring SRv6 deployment considerations draft & Spring WG members Hope all is well. Have you had a chance to review this email thread questions related to your draft on the 7 SRv6 deployments in China related to inter domain SRv6 routing. This will help indeed bridge the gap in questions we have related to SRv6 deployment functionality from a 6MAN IPv6 specification perspective. I had a few more questions regarding China=E2=80=99s seven SRv6 implementat= ions. With the SRv6 implementations how many nodes maximum high water mark in each of the domains and what was your maximum SID list depth and did you run into any MTU issues. What was the MTU of the nodes within the SRv6 domain? In each of the 7 deployments what was the maximum number of EH headers inserted within the domain? Was PSP used to pop the SRH EH header? Did you have any scenarios where USP SRH pop was utilized? What was the reason to use USP over default PSP? With SRv6 qos scheduling is not an issue as with MPLS which requires pipe mode for explicit null label to preserve the topmost label for exp scheduling. Was TI-LFA used for node and path protection and was that one of the SRH eh insertions that occurred? Other then the ingress source PE of the SR domain SRH type 4 eh header insertion and for TI-LFA node and path protection at PLR go to PQ loop free tunnel node we=E2=80=99re there any other cases where SRH eh was With best effort L3 VPN with the PE routers only upgraded to be SRv6 capable - in that scenario only the ingress source PE of the SR domain can perform SRH EH Insertion. Correct? In order for any other node in the SR domain to perform SRH eh insertion all nodes must be upgraded to be SRv6 capable such as in the case of TI-LFA fast reroute capability. Correct? >From the draft - L3 VPN over SRv6 best effort there is no SRH - how would that work? I am not following... In the China deployments did you have cases where all the nodes had to be SRv6 capable? In the deployment scenarios how was the binding SID SR policy used to reduce a long SID list of a static explicit route object by selecting nodes along a path based on hardware features? In the deployments how was the binding SID used for TI-LFA fast reroute ar tar PLR junction to the PQ loop free tunnel node? Kinds Regards, Gyan On Sat, Nov 16, 2019 at 1:43 AM Gyan Mishra wrote: > Hi Robin > > Here are some details related to existing Inter domain MPLS which has com= e > a long ways since inception decades ago. > > Inter AS options A, B, C & CSC > https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4364#section-10 > > Inter AS option AB > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-mapathak-interas-ab/ > > Inter AS Option A: Back to back VRF native IP. Subinterface VRF per > customer VPN. LSP terminates on each ASBR PE router. No BGP-LU (labeled > switched unicast) which requires importing of loopback FEC of all PEs > between each AS. Simple and works if isolation is required between > providers. Does not scale. Multicast Is simple as MVPN profiles do not > need to match as PIM over the NNI inter AS link glues the two MVPN domain= s > together. > > Inter AS Option B: Segmented LSP with single VPNV4 BGP session over inter > AS link. Highly scalable. RT filtering is enabled by default on all PEs > so has to be disabled on ASBR PE. Retain RT policy applied can filter and > RTs and don=E2=80=99t have to accept all RTs. Multicast MVPN profiles mus= t match > between SPs as recursive-FEC and this the LMDT(labeled multicast > distribution tree) is end to end and not a segmented LSP as is with > unicast. For MVPN BGP-LU needs to be enabled for mLDP peer to come up fo= r > LDP router-id label binding.ASBR PE must maintain all the L3 VPN FIBs. N= o > BGP-LU (labeled switched unicast) which requires importing of loopback FE= C > of all PEs between each AS. > > Inter AS Option C: End to End LSP with BGP-LU (label switched unicast) > enabled on inter AS link data plane path. All SP PE loopback FEC > destinations must be exchanged imported between SPs and iBGP-LU PE to RR > for SP loops exchanged to have label binding when advertised over eBGP LU > inter AS. VPNV4 peering next-hop-unchanged for control plane update so en= d > to end LSP can build between any to any PE between SPs. Multicast MVPN > profiles must match between SPs as recursive-FEC and this the LMDT(labele= d > multicast distribution tree) is end to end and not a segmented LSP as is > with unicast. Option C offloads the ASBR PE having to maintain the L3 VP= N > FIB. > > Inter AS Option AB Hybrid of Option A and B with single control plane > VPNV4 peer as is with Option B and VRF data plane isolation sub interface= s > per customer VRF. Scales well as control plane is provided via single BG= P > peer. AB provides additional security with VRF isolation feature. No > importing of PE FEC loopback as this is a segmented LSP with 3 segments. = Multicast > MVPN profiles must match between SPs as recursive-FEC and this the > LMDT(labeled multicast distribution tree) is end to end and not a segment= ed > LSP as is with unicast. For MVPN BGP-LU needs to be enabled for mLDP pee= r > to come up for LDP router-id label binding.ASBR PE must maintain all the = L3 > VPN FIBs. > > Of the 4 inter AS options available today with MPLS Option A very simple > and seamless and works well if you have a minimal number of VRFs. Option= B > and AB both are highly scalable and AB works well if security is a > concern. Option C is a good option for enterprises as well as service > providers that have a close trust relationship. > > In your introduction section can you provide some details I have mentione= d > of the existing MPLS inter domain options. As you mentioned the importin= g > of millions of prefixes that would only be with Option C and it would onl= y > be a million if each provider had a million PE loopback to import. > > As far as SR-MPLS since it=E2=80=99s reusing the MPLS IPv4 dataplane to p= rovide > BGP IPV4 IPV6 VPNV4 VPNV6 services for inter AS would that still have to > use the traditional mpls inter as options. > > As for SRv6 since it uses the IPv6 data plane as far as inter domain that > can be stitched with SRv6 using Option B style but IPv6 dataplane in plac= e > of the MPLS topmost label. Then all BGP services IPV4 IPV6 VPNV4 VPNV6 > would ride on top. I guess you could do Option C style and advertise the > PE FEC loopbacks between domains for an end to end SID list similar to an > end to end LSP do the PSP PHP would not happen until you hit the last or > next to last node in the chain of domains. > > My guess is with both SRv6 and SR-MPLS you could literally take all for > inter AS options and use them as the bottom service BGP label would be th= e > same it=E2=80=99s just that you are swapping out the MPLS topmost label M= PLS IPv4 > data plane with SRv6 IPv6 data plane. > > Thank you > > Gyan > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Nov 8, 2019, at 11:38 AM, Lizhenbin wrote: > > Hi All, > Until now there has been 7 SRV6 deployments in China. It is very typical > for Chinese operators to deploy services crossing multiple IP network > domains. > It is complex and time-consuming to use the traditional ways such as > inter-AS VPN based on MPLS. With SRV6, complexity of the service provisio= n > can > be reduced greately. > The following draft proposed the advantages of SRv6 and incremental > deployment guidance. Then details of two SRv6 deployment cases from China > Telecom > and China Unicom are decribed. Hope it will be helpful for reference. > > Best Regards, > Zhenbin (Robin) > > > > ________________________________________ > =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: internet-drafts@ietf.org [internet-drafts@ie= tf.org] > =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2019=E5=B9=B411=E6=9C=884=E6=97=A5 = 21:39 > =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Lizhenbin; Feng Zhao; Xiaoyaqun; Jichun Ma; = Pengshuping (Peng > Shuping); Chongfeng Xie; Hui Tian; Tong Li > =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: New Version Notification for > draft-tian-spring-srv6-deployment-consideration-00.txt > > A new version of I-D, > draft-tian-spring-srv6-deployment-consideration-00.txt > has been successfully submitted by Shuping Peng and posted to the > IETF repository. > > Name: draft-tian-spring-srv6-deployment-consideration > Revision: 00 > Title: SRv6 Deployment Consideration > Document date: 2019-11-04 > Group: Individual Submission > Pages: 13 > URL: > https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-tian-spring-srv6-deployment-co= nsideration-00.txt > Status: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-tian-spring-srv6-deployment-consid= eration/ > Htmlized: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-tian-spring-srv6-deployment-considerati= on-00 > Htmlized: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-tian-spring-srv6-deployment-c= onsideration > > > Abstract: > SRv6 has significant advantages over SR-MPLS and has attracted more > and more attention and interest from network operators and verticals. > Smooth network migration towards SRv6 is a key focal point and this > document provides network migration guidance and recommendations on > solutions in various scenarios. Deployment cases with SRv6 are also > introduced. > > > > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > The IETF Secretariat > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > -- Gyan S. Mishra IT Network Engineering & Technology Verizon Communications Inc. (VZ) 13101 Columbia Pike FDC1 3rd Floor Silver Spring, MD 20904 United States Phone: 301 502-1347 Email: gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies-consultant --000000000000662fb50599413157 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Lizhenbin & authors of spring SRv6 deployment= considerations draft & Spring WG members=C2=A0

Hope all is well.
=

Have you had a chan= ce to review this email thread questions related to your draft on the 7 SRv= 6 deployments in China related to inter domain SRv6 routing.

This will help indeed bridge the gap = in questions we have related to SRv6 deployment functionality from a 6MAN I= Pv6 specification perspective.

I had a few more questions regarding China=E2=80=99s seven SRv6 impl= ementations.

With the SR= v6 implementations how many nodes maximum high water mark in each of the do= mains and what was your maximum SID list depth and did you run into any MTU= issues.

What was the MT= U of the nodes within the SRv6 domain?

In each of the 7 deployments what was the maximum number of = EH headers inserted within the domain?

Was PSP used to pop the SRH EH header?

Did you have any scenarios where USP SRH pop = was utilized? =C2=A0

Wha= t was the reason to use USP over default PSP?

With SRv6 qos scheduling is not an issue as with MPLS= which requires pipe mode for explicit null label to preserve the topmost l= abel for exp scheduling.

Was TI-LFA used for node and path protection and was that one of the SRH e= h insertions that occurred?

Other then the ingress source PE of the SR domain SRH type 4 eh header = insertion and for TI-LFA node and path protection at PLR go to PQ loop free= tunnel =C2=A0node we=E2=80=99re there any other cases where SRH eh was

With best effort L3 VPN wit= h the PE routers only upgraded to be SRv6 capable - in that scenario only t= he ingress source PE of the SR domain can perform SRH EH Insertion.=C2=A0 C= orrect?=C2=A0 In order for any other node in the SR domain to perform SRH e= h insertion all nodes must be upgraded to be SRv6 capable such as in the ca= se of TI-LFA fast reroute capability. Correct?

<= /div>
From the draft - L3 VPN over SRv6 best effort there = is no SRH - how would that work?=C2=A0 I am not following...

In the China deployments did you have= cases where all the nodes had to be SRv6 capable?
<= br>
In the deployment scenarios how was the binding = SID SR policy used to reduce a long SID list of a static explicit route obj= ect by selecting nodes along a path based on hardware features?

In the deployments how was the bind= ing SID used for TI-LFA fast reroute ar tar PLR junction to the PQ loop fre= e tunnel node?




=

Kinds Regards,

Gyan

On Sat, Nov 16, 2019 at= 1:43 AM Gyan Mishra <hayabusag= sm@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Robin
Here are some details related to existing Inter domain MPL= S which has come a long ways since inception decades ago. =C2=A0
=
Inter AS options A, B, C & CSC

Inter AS opt= ion AB

Inter AS Option A: =C2=A0Back= to back VRF native IP.=C2=A0 Subinterface VRF per customer VPN. LSP termin= ates on each ASBR PE router.=C2=A0 No BGP-LU (labeled switched unicast) whi= ch requires importing of loopback FEC of all PEs between each AS.=C2=A0 Sim= ple and works if isolation is required between providers.=C2=A0 Does not sc= ale. Multicast Is simple as MVPN profiles do not need to match as PIM over = the NNI inter AS link glues the two MVPN domains together.

Inter AS Option B: Segmented LSP with single VPNV4 BGP session ove= r inter AS link.=C2=A0 Highly scalable.=C2=A0 RT filtering is enabled by de= fault on all PEs so has to be disabled on ASBR PE. Retain RT policy applied= can filter and RTs and don=E2=80=99t have to accept all RTs. Multicast MVP= N profiles must match between SPs as recursive-FEC and this the LMDT(labele= d multicast distribution tree) is end to end and not a segmented LSP as is = with unicast.=C2=A0 For MVPN BGP-LU needs to be enabled for mLDP peer to co= me up for LDP router-id label binding.ASBR PE must maintain all the L3 VPN = FIBs. =C2=A0No BGP-LU = (labeled switched unicast) which requires importing of loopback FEC of all = PEs between each AS.=C2=A0

Inter AS Option = C: End to End LSP with BGP-LU (label switched unicast) enabled on inter AS = link data plane path.=C2=A0 All SP PE loopback FEC destinations =C2=A0must = be exchanged imported between SPs and iBGP-LU PE to RR for SP loops exchang= ed to have label binding when advertised over eBGP LU inter AS. VPNV4 peeri= ng next-hop-unchanged for control plane update so end to end LSP can build = between any to any PE between SPs. Multicast MVPN profiles must match between SPs as recursive-FE= C and this the LMDT(labeled multicast distribution tree) is end to end and = not a segmented LSP as is with unicast.=C2=A0 Option C offloads the ASBR PE= having to maintain the L3 VPN FIB.

Inter A= S Option AB Hybrid of Option A and B with single control plane VPNV4 peer a= s is with Option B and VRF data plane isolation sub interfaces per customer= VRF.=C2=A0 Scales well as control plane is provided via single BGP peer. A= B provides additional security with VRF isolation feature.=C2=A0 No importi= ng of PE FEC loopback as this is a segmented LSP with 3 segments. Multicast MVPN profiles must ma= tch between SPs as recursive-FEC and this the LMDT(labeled multicast distri= bution tree) is end to end and not a segmented LSP as is with unicast.=C2= =A0 For MVPN BGP-LU needs to be enabled for mLDP peer to come up for LDP ro= uter-id label binding.ASBR PE must maintain all the L3 VPN FIBs. =C2=A0

Of the 4= inter AS options available today with MPLS Option A very simple and seamle= ss and works well if you have a minimal number of VRFs.=C2=A0 Option B and = AB both are highly scalable and AB works well if security is a concern.=C2= =A0 Option C is a good option for enterprises as well as service providers = that have a close trust relationship.

In your introduction section can you provi= de some details I have mentioned of the existing MPLS inter domain options.= =C2=A0 As you mentioned the importing of millions of prefixes that would on= ly be with Option C and it would only be a million if each provider had a m= illion PE loopback to import.=C2=A0

As far as SR-MPLS since it=E2=80=99s reusing= the MPLS IPv4 dataplane to provide BGP IPV4 IPV6 VPNV4 VPNV6 services for = inter AS would that still have to use the traditional mpls inter as options= .
As = for SRv6 since it uses the IPv6 data plane as far as inter domain that can = be stitched with SRv6 using Option B style but IPv6 dataplane in place of t= he MPLS topmost label. Then all BGP services=C2=A0IPV4 IPV6 VPNV4 VPNV6 wou= ld ride on top.=C2=A0 I guess you could do Option C style and advertise the= PE FEC loopbacks between domains for an end to end SID list similar to an = end to end LSP do the PSP PHP would not happen until you hit the last or ne= xt to last node in the chain of domains.

My guess is with both SRv6 and SR-MPLS = you could literally take all for inter AS options and use them as the botto= m service BGP label would be the same it=E2=80=99s just that you are swappi= ng out the MPLS topmost label MPLS IPv4 data plane with SRv6 IPv6 data plan= e.
Th= ank you=C2=A0

Gyan

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 8, 2019, at 11= :38 AM, Lizhenbin <lizhenbin@huawei.com> wrote:

Hi All,
Until now there has bee= n 7 SRV6 deployments in China. It is very typical for Chinese operators to = deploy services crossing multiple IP network domains.
It i= s complex and time-consuming to use the traditional ways such as inter-AS V= PN based on MPLS. With SRV6, complexity of the service provision can
be reduced greately.
The following draft propose= d the advantages of SRv6 and incremental deployment guidance. Then details = of two SRv6 deployment cases from China Telecom
and China = Unicom are decribed. Hope it will be helpful for reference.

Best Regards,
Zhenbin (Robin) =C2=A0



___________= _____________________________
=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: = internet-draf= ts@ietf.org [internet-drafts@ietf.org]
=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97= =B6=E9=97=B4: 2019=E5=B9=B411=E6=9C=884=E6=97=A5 21:39
=E6= =94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Lizhenbin; Feng Zhao; Xiaoyaqun; Jichun Ma; Pengs= huping (Peng Shuping); Chongfeng Xie; Hui Tian; Tong Li
=E4= =B8=BB=E9=A2=98: New Version Notification for draft-tian-spring-srv6-deploy= ment-consideration-00.txt

A new version of= I-D, draft-tian-spring-srv6-deployment-consideration-00.txt
has been successfully submitted by Shuping Peng and posted to the<= br>IETF repository.

Name: =C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0draft-tian-spring-srv6-d= eployment-consideration
Revision: =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A000
Title: =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0SRv6 Deployment Consideration
Document da= te: =C2=A02019-11-04
Group: =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Individual Submission
Pages: =C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A013
URL: =C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/dra= ft-tian-spring-srv6-deployment-consideration-00.txt
Sta= tus: =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-tian-spring-srv6-depl= oyment-consideration/
Htmlized: =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0https://tools.ietf.org/htm= l/draft-tian-spring-srv6-deployment-consideration-00
Ht= mlized: =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-tian-spring-srv6-de= ployment-consideration


Abstract:
=C2=A0=C2=A0SRv6 has significant advantages ov= er SR-MPLS and has attracted more
=C2=A0=C2=A0and more att= ention and interest from network operators and verticals.
= =C2=A0=C2=A0Smooth network migration towards SRv6 is a key focal point and = this
=C2=A0=C2=A0document provides network migration guida= nce and recommendations on
=C2=A0=C2=A0solutions in variou= s scenarios.=C2=A0 Deployment cases with SRv6 are also
=C2= =A0=C2=A0introduced.





Please note that it may take= a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the = htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Th= e IETF Secretariat
----------------------------------------= ----------------------------
IETF IPv6 working group mailin= g list
i= pv6@ietf.org
Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.or= g/mailman/listinfo/ipv6
-------------------------------= -------------------------------------
--

Gyan S. Mishra

IT Network Engineering & Technology=C2=A0=

Verizon Communications=C2=A0Inc. (VZ)=

13101 Columbia Pike FDC1 3rd Floor

=

Silver Spring, MD 20904

United States<= span style=3D"color:rgb(80,0,80);background-image:initial;background-positi= on:initial;background-repeat:initial">

Phone:=C2=A0301 502-1347

Email:=C2=A0gyan.s.mishra@verizon.= com

www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies-co= nsultant


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boundary="_000_DBBPR03MB5415CC22B6EC51A8B7EEE0F6EE580DBBPR03MB5415eurp_" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2019 10:07:40 -0000 --_000_DBBPR03MB5415CC22B6EC51A8B7EEE0F6EE580DBBPR03MB5415eurp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I would also appreciate it if the following two can be added to the list to= be tracked: * https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/TJK_us3OPM60B00Wa3fhOgDX= 20k * https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/PH_hREAN54is2wkm5s_8rkRx= OP4 Thanks Andrew From: spring On Behalf Of Ron Bonica Sent: Monday, 9 December 2019 05:50 To: bruno.decraene@orange.com; 'SPRING WG List' Cc: draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming Subject: Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming Bruno, Please add the following to the list of last call comments to be tracked: * https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/2BvW_aGaEsOfRclrE4-ctEGb= TZs * https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/t8Bm_kQdV2rTlxtvYss5KPY1= KlI * https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/nfzSTbLy24FLOd5h-52Hfr5z= EnU = Ron Juniper Business Use Only From: ipv6 > On Behalf = Of bruno.decraene@orange.com Sent: Thursday, December 5, 2019 12:15 PM To: 'SPRING WG List' > Cc: 6man@ietf.org; draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-pro= gramming > Subject: WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming Hello SPRING, This email starts a two weeks Working Group Last Call on draft-ietf-spring-= srv6-network-programming [1]. Please read this document if you haven't read the most recent version, and = send your comments to the SPRING WG list, no later than December 20. You may copy the 6MAN WG for IPv6 related comment, but consider not duplica= ting emails on the 6MAN mailing list for the comments which are only spring= specifics. If you are raising a point which you expect will be specifically debated on= the mailing list, consider using a specific email/thread for this point. This may help avoiding that the thread become specific to this point and th= at other points get forgotten (or that the thread get converted into parall= el independent discussions) Thank you, Bruno [1] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-= 05 ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el= ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been = modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. --_000_DBBPR03MB5415CC22B6EC51A8B7EEE0F6EE580DBBPR03MB5415eurp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I would also appreciate it if the following two can be added to the l= ist to be tracked:

 

 

Thanks

 

Andrew

 

 

From: spring <spring-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Ron Bonica
Sent: Monday, 9 December 2019 05:50
To: bruno.decraene@orange.com; 'SPRING WG List' <spring@ietf.org&= gt;
Cc: draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming <draft-ietf-spring= -srv6-network-programming@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programm= ing

 

Bruno,

 

Please add the following to the= list of last call comments to be tracked:

 

 

     &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;        Ron

 

 

 

Juniper Business= Use Only

From: ipv6 <ipv6-bounces@= ietf.org> On Behalf Of bruno.decr= aene@orange.com
Sent: Thursday, December 5, 2019 12:15 PM
To: 'SPRING WG List' <spring@i= etf.org>
Cc: 6man@ietf.org; draft-ietf-s= pring-srv6-network-programming <draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming@i= etf.org>
Subject: WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming

 

Hello SPRING,
 
This email starts a two weeks Working Group Last =
Call on draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming [1].

 


Please read this document if you haven't read the=
 most recent version, and send your comments to the SPRING WG list, no late=
r than December 20.


 


You may copy the 6MAN WG for IPv6 related comment=
, but consider not duplicating emails on the 6MAN mailing list for the comm=
ents which are only spring specifics.


 


If you are raising a point which you expect will =
be specifically debated on the mailing list, consider using a specific emai=
l/thread for this point.


This may help avoiding that the thread become spe=
cific to this point and that other points get forgotten (or that the thread=
 get converted into parallel independent discussions)

 


Thank you,


Bruno


 


[1] h=
ttps://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-05


 


 


____________________________________________________=
_____________________________________________________________________<=
/o:p>


 


Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir de=
s informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc


pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisa=
tion. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler


a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces j=
ointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,


Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a =
ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci.


 


This message and its attachments may contain confide=
ntial or privileged information that may be protected by law;


they should not be distributed, used or copied witho=
ut authorisation.


If you have received this email in error, please not=
ify the sender and delete this message and its attachments.


As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for m=
essages that have been modified, changed or falsified.

Thank you.
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([169.254.7.210]) by dggemm422-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.1.198.39]) with mapi id 14.03.0439.000; Mon, 9 Dec 2019 21:25:24 +0800 From: Lizhenbin To: Gyan Mishra CC: Chongfeng Xie , Feng Zhao , Hui Tian , Jichun Ma , Tong Li , Xiaoyaqun , ipv6 , spring Thread-Topic: New Version Notification for draft-tian-spring-srv6-deployment-consideration-00.txt Thread-Index: AQHVkxVlBL4LI0RMRkuun3lgvWynPKeBfDbVgAtpy4CAJEMwgIAA2Nza Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2019 13:25:23 +0000 Message-ID: 7C6CD332-ECDF-44BD-9648-B0C72D521A36 References: <157287479954.16520.4462959984993498664.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D9353BF28@DGGEMM532-MBX.china.huawei.com> <45FA30A4-1246-4E57-94D5-6123310E9844@gmail.com>, In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_7C6CD332ECDF44BD9648B0C72D521A36_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] New Version 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<8228800f-2db9-f253-eb9b-e56058cf3e47@orange.com> Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2019 14:40:48 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20191206215342.672B9F4074E@rfc-editor.org> Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha-256; boundary="------------ms000001010006070801090000" X-Originating-IP: [10.114.13.245] Archived-At: Subject: [spring] Fwd: [Pce] RFC 8664 on Path Computation Element Communication Protocol (PCEP) Extensions for Segment Routing X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2019 13:40:55 -0000 --------------ms000001010006070801090000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en-US FYI -------- Forwarded Message -------- Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 13:53:42 -0800 From: rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org A new Request for Comments is now available in online RFC libraries. RFC 8664 Title: Path Computation Element Communication Protocol (PCEP) Extensions for Segment Routing Author: S. Sivabalan, C. Filsfils, J. Tantsura, W. Henderickx, J. Hardwick Status: Standards Track Stream: IETF Date: December 2019 Mailbox: msiva@cisco.com, cfilsfil@cisco.com, jefftant.ietf@gmail.com, wim.henderickx@nokia.com, jonathan.hardwick@metaswitch.com Pages: 29 Updates: RFC 8408 I-D Tag: draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-16.txt URL: https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc8664 DOI: 10.17487/RFC8664 Segment Routing (SR) enables any head-end node to select any path without relying on a hop-by-hop signaling technique (e.g., LDP or RSVP-TE). It depends only on "segments" that are advertised by link-state Interior Gateway Protocols (IGPs). An SR path can be derived from a variety of mechanisms, including an IGP Shortest Path Tree (SPT), an explicit configuration, or a Path Computation Element (PCE). This document specifies extensions to the Path Computation Element Communication Protocol (PCEP) that allow a stateful PCE to compute and initiate Traffic-Engineering (TE) paths, as well as a Path Computation Client (PCC) to request a path subject to certain constraints and optimization criteria in SR networks. This document updates RFC 8408. This document is a product of the Path Computation Element Working Group of the IETF. This is now a Proposed Standard. STANDARDS TRACK: This document specifies an Internet Standards Track protocol for the Internet community, and requests discussion and suggesti= ons for improvements. Please refer to the current edition of the Official Internet Protocol Standards (https://www.rfc-editor.org/standards) for the standardization state and status of this protocol. Distribution of this memo is unlimited. This announcement is sent to the IETF-Announce and rfc-dist lists. To subscribe or unsubscribe, see https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce https://mailman.rfc-editor.org/mailman/listinfo/rfc-dist For searching the RFC series, see https://www.rfc-editor.org/search For downloading RFCs, see https://www.rfc-editor.org/retrieve/bulk Requests for special distribution should be addressed to either the author of the RFC in question, or to rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org. Unless specifically noted otherwise on the RFC itself, all RFCs are for unlimited distribution. The RFC Editor Team Association Management Solutions, LLC _______________________________________________ Pce mailing list Pce@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pce --------------ms000001010006070801090000 Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExDzANBglghkgBZQMEAgEFADCABgkqhkiG9w0BBwEAAKCC EmowggTeMIIDxqADAgECAgEBMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBBQUAMGoxCzAJBgNVBAYTAkZSMRowGAYD VQQKDBFGcmFuY2UgVGVsZWNvbSBTQTEXMBUGA1UECwwOMDAwMiAzODAxMjk4NjYxJjAkBgNV BAMMHUdyb3VwZSBGcmFuY2UgVGVsZWNvbSBSb290IENBMB4XDTA1MTExNzExMDkzOVoXDTI1 MTExNzExMDkzOVowgZYxCzAJBgNVBAYTAkZSMRowGAYDVQQKDBFGcmFuY2UgVGVsZWNvbSBT QTEkMCIGA1UECwwbV2VzdGVybkVVIE1pZGRsZUVhc3QgQWZyaWNhMRcwFQYDVQQLDA4wMDAy IDM4MDEyOTg2NjEsMCoGA1UEAwwjR3JvdXBlIEZyYW5jZSBUZWxlY29tIEludGVybmFsIENB 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DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; SCL:1; SRVR:MWHPR11MB1840; H:MWHPR11MB1374.namprd11.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:1; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: cisco.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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 x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <5A1D4F8CE057F24B949D9E22AC7BA42F@namprd11.prod.outlook.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 9ecccf16-36ea-4e12-943b-08d77cbb6a85 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 09 Dec 2019 15:21:08.3762 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5ae1af62-9505-4097-a69a-c1553ef7840e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: Sa4Zudv0alf0ktR1kk2KE5s5fKmb3yyPWWONaLGHCc5CDobhbDtopA6ELsdiBg5gKYxR5b4W7v5o4/rcKtEy4w== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: MWHPR11MB1840 X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.36.7.15, xch-aln-005.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: alln-core-5.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] SRv6 Network programming minor detail X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2019 15:21:18 -0000 Sm9lbCwNCg0KWW91IGFyZSByaWdodCwgdGhlIGZpbmFsIDo6IGFyZSBub3QgbmVlZGVkIGFuZCB3 aWxsIGJlIHJlbW92ZWQuDQoNCkNoZWVycywNClBhYmxvLg0KDQrvu78tLS0tLU9yaWdpbmFsIE1l c3NhZ2UtLS0tLQ0KRnJvbTogc3ByaW5nIDxzcHJpbmctYm91bmNlc0BpZXRmLm9yZz4gb24gYmVo YWxmIG9mICJKb2VsIE0uIEhhbHBlcm4iIDxqbWhAam9lbGhhbHBlcm4uY29tPg0KRGF0ZTogU3Vu ZGF5LCA4IERlY2VtYmVyIDIwMTkgYXQgMjE6MTkNClRvOiAic3ByaW5nQGlldGYub3JnIiA8c3By aW5nQGlldGYub3JnPg0KU3ViamVjdDogW3NwcmluZ10gU1J2NiBOZXR3b3JrIHByb2dyYW1taW5n IG1pbm9yIGRldGFpbA0KDQogICAgSW4gcmVhZGluZyBzZWN0aW9uIDMuMSBvbiB0aGUgU0lEIGZv cm1hdCwgSSBub3RpY2VkIGEgc21hbGwgaW5jb25zaXRlbmN5IA0KICAgIHdpdGggYSBsYXJnZSBp bXBhY3QuICBNeSBndWVzcyBpcyB0aGF0IGVpdGhlciBJIGFtIG1pc3JlYWRpbmcgdGhlIHRleHQs IA0KICAgIG9yIHRoZXJlIGlzIGEgdHlwby4NCiAgICANCiAgICBUaGUgZmlyc3QgcGFydCBvZiB0 aGUgc2VjdGlvbiB0YWxrcyBhYm91dCBMT0M6RlVOQ1QgYW5kIGlzIGNsZWFyIHRoYXQgDQogICAg dGhpcyB1c2VzIGFsbCAxMjggYml0cyBvZiB0aGUgSVB2NiBhZGRyZXNzLiAgSSB0aGluayBJIHVu ZGVyc3RhbmQgdGhhdC4NCiAgICANCiAgICBMYXRlciBpbiB0aGUgc2VjdGlvbiwgaW4gdGFsa2lu ZyBhYm91dCBhcmd1bWVudHMsIGl0IHNheXMgDQogICAgIkxPQzpGVU5DVDpBUkdTOjoiLiAgSXMg dGhlIGZpbmFsIDo6IGludGVuZGVkPyAgVGhhdCBzZWVtcyB0byByZXF1aXJlIA0KICAgIHRoYXQg dGhlIGVudGlyZSB0aGluZyBmaXQgaW4gdGhlIHVwcGVyIDY0IGJpdHMgb2YgdGhlIElQdjYgYWRk cmVzcy4gDQogICAgV2hpY2ggSSBiZWxpZXZlIGlzIG5vdCBpbnRlbmRlZC4gIEkgd291bGQgaGF2 ZSBleHBlY3RlZCBzaW1wbHkgDQogICAgIkxPQzpGVU5DVDpBUkdTIi4NCiAgICANCiAgICBUaGFu ayB5b3UsDQogICAgSm9lbA0KICAgIA0KICAgIF9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQogICAgc3ByaW5nIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdA0KICAgIHNwcmluZ0Bp ZXRmLm9yZw0KICAgIGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vc3ByaW5n DQogICAgDQoNCg== From nobody Mon Dec 9 07:44:39 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAC7B120920; 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Mon, 9 Dec 2019 16:44:31 +0100 (CET) Received: from OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::b846:2467:1591:5d9d]) by OPEXCAUBM5D.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0468.000; Mon, 9 Dec 2019 16:44:31 +0100 From: To: Fernando Gont CC: Ron Bonica , SPRING WG , 6man <6man@ietf.org>, "int-ads@ietf.org" , rtg-ads , Bob Hinden , "otroan@employees.org" Thread-Topic: [spring] We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping) Thread-Index: AQHVrFd01PAehDmbIEiCKIj1oInBm6etTo4AgAAanYCAAANTgIAABIaAgAAYSoCAAA7ggIAAEpMAgAANKICAABTgAIAEIr1w Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2019 15:44:30 +0000 Message-ID: <26851_1575906271_5DEE6BDF_26851_215_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D2246D@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <17b63259-2227-3494-4d3e-5411048e2ca2@si6networks.com> In-Reply-To: <17b63259-2227-3494-4d3e-5411048e2ca2@si6networks.com> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.245] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2019 15:44:38 -0000 Fernando, =20 > From: ipv6 [mailto:ipv6-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Fernando Gont > Sent: Saturday, December 7, 2019 2:10 AM >=20 > On 6/12/19 20:55, otroan@employees.org wrote: > >> * polling the mailing list instead of deciding (on your own) that the > >> group wants to work on EH insertion, and, > >=20 > > Which decision are you referring to? > > I have certainly never decided that working group wants to work on head= er insertion. >=20 > This is your note: > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ipv6/j177aiqH6G4XNTWWrRfpsV23IVg >=20 > Then I re-asked: > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ipv6/12Qwp_eeQT2EmbUrSxBLL5HTcnM > But you didn't respond. >=20 > Suresh clarified there had not been any sort of adoption call: > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ipv6/Db6_SGfmeIDzaE56Ps5kUDCYEzY >=20 > Then again we were debating the topic here: > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ipv6/56w4LQzYtkut43A46ADhW3dWT-Y >=20 > The reality is that there has not been a call for adoption for any of > these two documents. So.. I'm not sure what a say may the wg have on > documents that are individual documents. >=20 > On that ground, RFC8200 represents IETF consensus. And the spring > documents should be complying with it. TO be honest, I have no idea what > there is to debate here. >=20 >=20 >=20 > > With regards to the documents, I believe I clarified the statement of t= he working group seeing no reason why both documents couldn't be continue t= o be worked on. >=20 > The wg doesn't have a say on individual documents. So, yes, both > documents can continue to be worked on as much as I can continue > "working" on my BBQ. >=20 > Whatever the opinion of the wg, authors can work on individual I-Ds as > much as they please. >=20 > For the wg to have a say, I guess there has to be a conversation about > adoption. But such conversation hasn't taken place. (Me, myself, I'd > find it amusing to see the wg have two documents, one that says "this is > evil", and another about "doing evil" :-) But that's of course a > personal view). >=20 >=20 >=20 > > Those documents are not adopted, nor has any decision about adoption be= en made, nor is any adoption call of those documents planned. > >=20 > > I certainly don't want us as a group or myself personally to be working= on header insertion. > > You might not be alone, but you certainly keep repeatedly forcing the w= orking group to consider the issue. >=20 > And here we go again, for the Nth time: a big part of this thread came > up because folks at the spring are violating our specs. So I have > requested folks (including INT and RTG ADs), that the document remove > all text that violates RFC8200. It's not crystal clear to me what you are referring to. If it's related to draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming which is unde= r WGLC, could you please comment as part of this last call thread? And ple= ase quote the draft text that you are referring to. In particular the/all = "text that violates RFC8200". So far your comments are: https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/spring/?= q=3DWGLC%20-%20draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming&f_from=3DFernando= %20Gont Hence as part of this last call, I'm not seen your "So I have requ= ested folks (including INT and RTG ADs), that the document remove all text = that violates RFC8200." As of today, this document is under WGLC in the SPRING WG. So please review= _the text from this document_ and comment in the SPRING WG. Eventually, you will also have the opportunity to comment during IETF LC an= d to raise your points to the IESG. But your position will be stronger if y= ou first comment during the WG LC. If it's related to something else, e.g. some authors of SRv6 draft(s), plea= se be more specific and refers to those drafts, rather than "folks at the s= pring". Thank you, --Bruno > But then we see all this body of imagination of how they are not > violating RFC8200 (when they are), you talking about the topic being > nuanced and about "limited domains", etc. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > >> * complying with existing specifications unless there's formal consens= us > >> for them to be formally updated. > >=20 > > I believe I have responded multiple times to this point. > > I do not in principle see a conflict with specifying how header inserti= on can work in a specific case, > > and the text in RFC8200. I would strongly oppose updating RFC8200, sinc= e header insertion is clearly > > something that can only apply in specific use cases. >=20 > You have a spec that explicitly forbids it, with as strong of a wording > as available (it's not a "MUST NOT", because you and others opposed to > having rfc2460bis employ RFC2119 language). EH-insertion goes against an > explicitly forbidden behavior. Is not that you are playing in the MAY or > SHOULD area. So an update is warranted if this is to happen. >=20 > So yes, if you want to go against the spec, you have to update it. I > don't think we publish specs for folks to then come an note why they > have decided to violate them. And to the ocassional RFC reader, it will > be a bit of a mess to sail through a bunch of documents where some > specify behavior, and others simply do what they please. >=20 > A formal update is also warranted because, otherwise, if I read RFC8200 > (and there's no metadata that points to EH-insertion), I can assume that > this packet mangling doesn't occur. But then if the same organization > (IETF) publishes another document that says how to mangle with IPv6 > packets, without any formal update of RFC8200, I have nothing signaling > me to read it. >=20 > Thanks, > --=20 > Fernando Gont > SI6 Networks > e-mail: fgont@si6networks.com > PGP Fingerprint: 6666 31C6 D484 63B2 8FB1 E3C4 AE25 0D55 1D4E 7492 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el= ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been = modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. From nobody Mon Dec 9 08:16:33 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55A0B120043; Mon, 9 Dec 2019 08:16:32 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oqGyLUKmcYb1; Mon, 9 Dec 2019 08:16:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from relais-inet.orange.com (relais-inet.orange.com [80.12.66.39]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D65F712000F; Mon, 9 Dec 2019 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mail-lj1-x232.google.com with SMTP id c19so16646464lji.11; Mon, 09 Dec 2019 10:03:54 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=RKV/+MQUO8+KjPG6+5ccRxkcD2UmHal49+XLIO74e/Y=; b=IWlPJxesriuGHFZD49Amn3eqMf4bMAn1FKlfDO9N0HzadSH+GIg6LXnY9ScZpGfa+8 +REi2rbWXUkBQ9Pr7lrwVISUHdOytLrsYn3lEA/uSzrEN+Qi3WWGpN6PVJ89H0HPqTNq kI0zpqvUGLfAhKMUq1KjPJ9YXwDck5YnGjp4U+4uIlHQt933aHb7Zphq5ySmz5PqAmR7 2IIUUll2jgQcaGzQy5Ob3Amgqw1BGj/qW38pZba/VbZOOFyRq7oo8BfvE97lUyBg12ie cbbCz4PUV3mPHyjPY/R64YJfIDzI1qX+T6bZzEW44c6f9FQjEFbN9JhJYexrBdKhJnJk lRaA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=RKV/+MQUO8+KjPG6+5ccRxkcD2UmHal49+XLIO74e/Y=; b=gi+wB4Ka42yKSuRZakLYn/Vb0H8VaK5CE59VPSsZSyHiPN+sDR2v+q71E3lVg/kbWv 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Mirsky Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2019 10:03:43 -0800 Message-ID: To: Bruno Decraene Cc: "spring-chairs@ietf.org" , spring Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000dfd63c0599493737" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] New Version Notification for draft-mirsky-spring-bfd-08.txt X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2019 18:04:02 -0000 --000000000000dfd63c0599493737 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Bruno, I've read the e-mail you've referenced but I cannot find any technical substance. I don't find it productive to engage in the discussion of whether there is or there isn't IPR relevant to draft-mirsky-spring-bfd. I, as one of the authors of the draft, don't know of any undisclosed IPR related to this draft. Anyone who knows otherwise can submit IETF IPR Disclose. Also, as I understand, merging or splitting drafts is not an uncommon practice. The authors had agreed that the use case for the Non-FEC TLV is more applicable to SPRING WG. As for the state of discussion of draft-ietf-mpls-bfd-directed I think that MPLS WG chair's opinion should be listened to, not of one of the participants of the discussion. Regards, Greg On Sat, Nov 9, 2019 at 12:47 PM wrote: > Dear Greg, > > > > Carlos made some significant comments to your draft. > > I was kind of expecting that you would reply. Should we wait for your > replies? > > > > Regards, > > --Bruno > > > > > > *From**:* Greg Mirsky [mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com] > *Sent:* Saturday, November 9, 2019 6:29 PM > *To:* spring-chairs@ietf.org; spring > *Subject:* Fwd: New Version Notification for > draft-mirsky-spring-bfd-08.txt > > > > > Dear SPRING WG Chairs, > > still awaiting your response to the inquiry below. > > > > Regards, > > Greg > > ---------- Forwarded message --------- > From: *Greg Mirsky* > Date: Fri, Aug 2, 2019 at 9:46 AM > Subject: Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-mirsky-spring-bfd-08.txt > To: spring , > > > > Dear All, > > with this update, we've added a section on using BFD for Multipoint > Networks (RFC 8562 and RFC 8563) for proactive defect detection in > Point-to-Multipoint SR Policies. > > Authors believe that the draft is stable and addresses p2p, as well as, > p2mp use cases of SR-MPLS. We appreciate your consideration of WG adoption > poll for this specification. > > > > Regards, > > Greg > > ---------- Forwarded message --------- > From: > Date: Fri, Aug 2, 2019 at 12:38 PM > Subject: New Version Notification for draft-mirsky-spring-bfd-08.txt > To: Ilya Varlashkin , Gregory Mirsky < > gregimirsky@gmail.com>, Ilya Varlashkin , Jeff Tantsura > , Mach Chen (Guoyi) > > > > > A new version of I-D, draft-mirsky-spring-bfd-08.txt > has been successfully submitted by Greg Mirsky and posted to the > IETF repository. > > Name: draft-mirsky-spring-bfd > Revision: 08 > Title: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection (BFD) in Segment > Routing Networks Using MPLS Dataplane > Document date: 2019-08-02 > Group: Individual Submission > Pages: 13 > URL: > https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-mirsky-spring-bfd-08.txt > Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-mirsky-spring-bfd/ > Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-mirsky-spring-bfd-08 > Htmlized: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-mirsky-spring-bfd > Diff: > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-mirsky-spring-bfd-08 > > Abstract: > Segment Routing (SR) architecture leverages the paradigm of source > routing. It can be realized in the Multiprotocol Label Switching > (MPLS) network without any change to the data plane. A segment is > encoded as an MPLS label, and an ordered list of segments is encoded > as a stack of labels. Bidirectional Forwarding Detection (BFD) is > expected to monitor any existing path between systems. This document > defines how to use Label Switched Path Ping to bootstrap a BFD > session, control path in reverse direction of the SR-MPLS tunnel and > applicability of BFD Demand mode in the SR-MPLS domain. > > > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > The IETF Secretariat > > _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ > > Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc > pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler > a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, > Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci. > > This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged information that may be protected by law; > they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. > If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this message and its attachments. > As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been modified, changed or falsified. > Thank you. > > --000000000000dfd63c0599493737 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Greg

On Sat, Nov 9, 2019 at 12:47 PM <bruno.decraene@orange.com> wro= te:

<= span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73= ,125)">Dear Greg,

=C2=A0

Carlos made some significant = comments to your draft.

I was kind of expecting that = you would reply. Should we wait for your replies?

=C2=A0

Regards,=

--Bruno<= /p>

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

From: Greg Mirsky [mai= lto:gregimirsky@= gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, November 9, 2019 6:29 PM
To: spri= ng-chairs@ietf.org; spring
Subject: Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-mirsky-spring-bfd-0= 8.txt

=C2=A0


Dear SPRING WG Chairs,

still awaiting your res= ponse to the inquiry below.

=C2=A0

Regards,<= /p>

Greg

---------- Forwarded me= ssage ---------
From: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, Aug 2, 2019 at 9:46 AM
Subject: Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-mirsky-spring-bfd-08.txt To: spring <spring@= ietf.org>, <spring-chairs@ietf.org>

=C2=A0

Dear All,=

with this update, we= 9;ve added a section on using BFD for Multipoint Networks (RFC 8562 and RFC= 8563) for proactive defect detection in Point-to-Multipoint SR Policies.

Authors believe that th= e draft is stable and addresses p2p, as well as, p2mp use cases of SR-MPLS.= We appreciate your consideration of WG adoption poll for this specificatio= n.

=C2=A0

Regards,<= /p>

Greg

---------- Forwarded me= ssage ---------
From: <int= ernet-drafts@ietf.org>
Date: Fri, Aug 2, 2019 at 12:38 PM
Subject: New Version Notification for draft-mirsky-spring-bfd-08.txt
To: Ilya Varlashkin <ilya@nobulus.com>, Gregory Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>, Ilya Varlash= kin <Ilya@nobulus.= com>, Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>, Mach Chen (Guoyi) <mach.chen@huawei.com><= /u>




A new version of I-D, draft-mirsky-spring-bfd-08.txt
has been successfully submitted by Greg Mirsky and posted to the
IETF repository.

Name:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0draft-mirsky-spring-bfd
Revision:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A008
Title:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Bidirectional Forwarding Detection= (BFD) in Segment Routing Networks Using MPLS Dataplane
Document date:=C2=A0 2019-08-02
Group:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Individual Submission
Pages:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 13
URL:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-mirsky-spring-bfd-08.txt
Status:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://datatracker.i= etf.org/doc/draft-mirsky-spring-bfd/
Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://tools.ietf.org/html/d= raft-mirsky-spring-bfd-08
Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://datatracker.ie= tf.org/doc/html/draft-mirsky-spring-bfd
Diff:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://www= .ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-mirsky-spring-bfd-08

Abstract:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Segment Routing (SR) architecture leverages the paradigm of so= urce
=C2=A0 =C2=A0routing.=C2=A0 It can be realized in the Multiprotocol Label S= witching
=C2=A0 =C2=A0(MPLS) network without any change to the data plane.=C2=A0 A s= egment is
=C2=A0 =C2=A0encoded as an MPLS label, and an ordered list of segments is e= ncoded
=C2=A0 =C2=A0as a stack of labels.=C2=A0 Bidirectional Forwarding Detection= (BFD) is
=C2=A0 =C2=A0expected to monitor any existing path between systems.=C2=A0 T= his document
=C2=A0 =C2=A0defines how to use Label Switched Path Ping to bootstrap a BFD=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0session, control path in reverse direction of the SR-MPLS tunn= el and
=C2=A0 =C2=A0applicability of BFD Demand mode in the SR-MPLS domain.




Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio= n
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

The IETF Secretariat

______________________________________________________________________=
___________________________________________________

Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden=
tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu=
 ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les message=
s electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou =
falsifie. Merci.

This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf=
ormation that may be protected by law;
they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele=
te this message and its attachments.
As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been =
modified, changed or falsified.
Thank you.
--000000000000dfd63c0599493737-- From nobody Mon Dec 9 11:57:11 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DC5512018B for ; Mon, 9 Dec 2019 11:57:09 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id w-n5y0lNuxWv for ; Mon, 9 Dec 2019 11:57:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pl1-x634.google.com (mail-pl1-x634.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::634]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AA97612012C for ; Mon, 9 Dec 2019 11:57:07 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pl1-x634.google.com with SMTP id x13so6226110plr.9 for ; Mon, 09 Dec 2019 11:57:07 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Cy3bomoralWNBuCvgKCxIYZi2/OrJj83nY8u3KVD+7Q=; b=oFRorcjBoRAckp1dLSPdqswkkQ1KX+iVUwadFqkfFPO5f2GJyrPS4z7KTQ2kr0LRMY 6ZyLTGuCT7BasVPjuQBVHbo/0CDKKqdNrsLNYK1BGIqqwUD6y5SA75jk5cLjX+SUeG8r w5khftivZF1lzaK0Hh6sw9iiZwre0tPDzPSsDzCQk5b20ceg09xKbY1kOPtkLGYAgRN/ +wLC1oxyXLxf/MhGJcgP8OK7cbr26mY8GYEq1Q0sLkHq4KhOIkj4YilDVGM593qx3uoh cLYwp6ID8omhE52x7/FPR3IRZaedMYSOnNiu27mZ9F0/kT4F9p0NYpkQ8fecHCIYCz2j BFUw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=Cy3bomoralWNBuCvgKCxIYZi2/OrJj83nY8u3KVD+7Q=; b=aRlIMBX5TKw76CRrzBqyR9ckTgVXytlUrBgHpZgOuFVGHDszSF/JmpflJR4uj/Od1e It+vcKY5BtuJDhRBvhUjQRNzmVuemctSKHtAEdbX7sa8K8UufbLPeX1/0smeH+GMe7I4 lHlI8oGQBYMpkpJtwLxYHMeFgf9zMbMiJzefCfSDaNb0APCiGxNt5qpyJ89YB81UJ1AB iEEy9IkJO4KBOmD58rpl0bm7i0J6r3afbDypOtw7Pp6T2eGyJVDsQCa1qRmPpWgfOYWT CXA+dYMVIaJXp3U8ENrm62v/EMBvLr+qf5QWnYXQc1+KufIiX4aTIU1dicyYXLcXgHZp UG+g== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAV/glL/QoKPz7DCRjDLUA+q3mNJ0IhAyV0A1yj2pBvbVIq9QNiL 97T17zBU9J8h9RuHh4OHB9Z8/2pP X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqw1PVr0qBoYG1HQTRv5kwgfz7Rxk1gt0Lta3dwWDtIO/G93bAVZ/Y3c1sqPJXeUMaXmO+ROiA== X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:7083:: with SMTP id z3mr32284599plk.215.1575921426974; Mon, 09 Dec 2019 11:57:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.178.30] (228.147.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz. [111.69.147.228]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id i9sm262380pfd.166.2019.12.09.11.57.02 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 09 Dec 2019 11:57:06 -0800 (PST) To: "li_zhenqiang@hotmail.com" , Ron Bonica , Suresh Krishnan , "spring@ietf.org" Cc: Andrew Alston , Bob Hinden , Ole Troan , Sander Steffann , Fernando Gont References: From: Brian E Carpenter Message-ID: <741f9da7-5abf-2798-04cb-45ce3f14704b@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2019 08:57:02 +1300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] PHP - Deep Listening X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2019 19:57:10 -0000 As I have already said, in: > S14.1. If (updated SL =3D=3D 0) { > S14.2. Pop the SRH neither "updated SL" nor "Pop the SRH" is well defined in the text, so we= simply cannot tell whether RFC8200 is violated. Regards Brian On 09-Dec-19 20:52, li_zhenqiang@hotmail.com wrote: > Hi Suresh, Ron and all, >=20 > Ron is trying to correct the behaviors for PSP although it should be ac= cepted or not is still under discussion. According to the text in draft-i= etf-spring-srv6-network-programming-05, the behaviors for =C2=A0PSP are a= s follows, Next Header=C2=A0update=C2=A0and=C2=A0Payload Length update ar= e not mentioned. >=20 > S12. Decrement Hop Limit by 1 > S13. Decrement Segments Left by 1 > S14. Update IPv6 DA with Segment List[Segments Left] > S14.1. If (updated SL =3D=3D 0) { > S14.2. =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Pop the SRH > S14.3. } > S15. Resubmit the packet to the egress IPv6 FIB lookup and=C2=A0transmi= ssion to the new destination >=20 > I pointed out this in=C2=A0https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring= /o7uJ5BiHY9WKhwL69PwbSVrzw-Q=C2=A0and our dear editor Pablo admitted NH s= hould be updated. However, I don't know why the text in version 5 is not = updated accordingly till it goes to WGLC. Comments should be accommodated= in the document not merely noted in the list.=C2=A0 >=20 > Best Regards, > Zhenqiang Li > -----------------------------------------------------------------------= -------------------------------------------------------------------------= -------------------------------------------------------------------------= -------------------------------------------------------------------------= -------------------------------------------------------------------------= -------------------------------------------------------------------------= -------------------------------------------------------------------------= -------------------------------------------------------------------------= -------------------------------------------------------------------------= -------------------------------------------------------------------------= -------------------------------------------------------------------------= -------------------------------------------------------------------------= -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------------------------------------------- > li_zhenqiang@hotmail.com >=20 > =C2=A0 > *From:*=C2=A0Ron Bonica > *Date:*=C2=A02019-12-07=C2=A020:09 > *To:*=C2=A0Suresh Krishnan ; SPRING WG > *CC:*=C2=A0Andrew Alston ; = Bob Hinden ; Ole Troan ; Sander Steffann ; Fernando Gont ; Brian E Carpenter > *Subject:*=C2=A0[spring] PHP - Deep Listening (was: RE: Separating = issues) >=20 > Suresh, >=20 > =C2=A0 >=20 > Fair enough. Let=E2=80=99s review PHP, with open minds, and see if = the motivation merits the proposed behavior=E2=80=A6. >=20 > =C2=A0 >=20 > Assume that an SRv6 node receives the following packet: >=20 > =C2=A0 >=20 > * IPv6 header. Destination Address =3D=3D LOCATOR:0x0002 (0x0002 = indicates that this is and end with PSP) > * IPv6 header. Next Header =3D=3D Routing Header > * Routing header. Routing Type =C2=A0=3D=3D SRH > * Routing header. Segments Left =3D=3D 1 >=20 > =C2=A0 >=20 > According to the NP draft, the nodes should: >=20 > =C2=A0 >=20 > * Copy SID[0] to IPv6 header. Destination Address > * Update IPv6 header. Next Header > * Update IPv6 header, Payload Length > * Remove the Routing Header >=20 > =C2=A0 >=20 > Now that we understand how PHP works, we can compare PHP to a more = orthodox alternative. That is, to decrement Segments Left (to 0) and forw= ard the packet without PHP. Downstream nodes SHOULD ignore the SRH, becau= se Segments Left is equal to 0. >=20 > =C2=A0 >=20 > The following are possible benefits of PHP: >=20 > =C2=A0 >=20 > * To save bandwidth on the final segment > * To optimize for ASIC some particular ASIC on the destination no= de, possibly mitigating the effect of a very large SRH > * Others? >=20 > =C2=A0 >=20 > Do either of these motivations merit the variation from the more or= thodox IPv6 processing? >=20 > =C2=A0 >=20 > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0Ron >=20 > =C2=A0 >=20 > =C2=A0 >=20 > =C2=A0 >=20 > Juniper Business Use Only >=20 > *From:* Suresh Krishnan > *Sent:* Saturday, December 7, 2019 2:14 AM > *To:* 6man <6man@ietf.org>; SPRING WG > *Cc:* Brian E Carpenter ; Andrew Alsto= n ; Ole Troan ; Ro= n Bonica ; int-ads@ietf.org; rtg-ads ; Bob Hinden ; Fernando Gont > *Subject:* Separating issues (was Re: [spring] We don't seem to be = following our processes (Re: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Po= pping)) >=20 > =C2=A0 >=20 > (Apologies up front. I am about to get on a 10 hr flight and will b= e unable to respond for at least that period) >=20 > =C2=A0 >=20 > Hi all, >=20 > =C2=A0 Picking the last message in the thread to reply to. It looks= to me that there are at least two different (but related) issues being d= iscussed here >=20 > =C2=A0 >=20 > a) Spring SRv6 NP behavior (related to the WGLC of that draft) >=20 > b) The Header insertion drafts and how to deal with them >=20 > =C2=A0 >=20 > I really think that=C2=A0 >=20 > =C2=A0 >=20 > a) should preferably stay in the spring ML and a pointer to the dis= cussion sent to the 6man mailing list would be in order >=20 > b) should preferably stay in the 6man ML >=20 > =C2=A0 >=20 > I think the communities for the two drafts are different and I thin= k the discussions can be more focused if the issues are addressed by the = relevant wgs. As to what happens if the spring draft hits the IESG and co= ntains text in violation of RFC8200, I had already sent my thoughts about= this back in September >=20 > =C2=A0 >=20 > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/uA-WxxgBJeMu65SkrKCTL5= BJMcU >=20 > =C2=A0 >=20 > with the relevant text=C2=A0 >=20 > =C2=A0 >=20 > "If a draft violates RFC8200 and it hits the IESG for evaluation, I= will certainly hold a DISCUSS position until the violations are fixed.=E2= =80=9D >=20 > =C2=A0 >=20 > *In my view*, the authors of the SRv6 NP draft have made an effort = to address these violations by removing the header insertion from the dra= ft. We can continue discussing whether penultimate hop popping constitute= s a violation on the spring mailing list (I intend to respond to Fernando= =E2=80=99a mail there). >=20 > =C2=A0 >=20 > Thanks >=20 > Suresh >=20 > =C2=A0 >=20 > On Dec 7, 2019, at 11:07 AM, Fernando Gont > wrote: >=20 > =C2=A0 >=20 > On 6/12/19 23:47, Brian E Carpenter wrote: >=20 > Again, comment at the end... > On 07-Dec-19 14:37, Fernando Gont wrote: >=20 > On 6/12/19 22:15, Brian E Carpenter wrote: > [...] >=20 > =C2=A0 >=20 > and if such a thing is required, an update to R= FC8200 should be done. >=20 >=20 > Why does that follow? Alternatively, draft-ietf-spr= ing-srv6-network-programming could acknowledge that it deviates from RFC8= 200. >=20 >=20 > You can deviate from s "should", not from a "must". Thi= s is an outright > violation of a spec, rather than a mere "deviation". >=20 >=20 > Whether that's acceptable would be a question for t= he IETF Last Call rather than any single WG. >=20 >=20 > I would expect that a WG cannot ship a document that is= violating an > existing spec, where the wg shipping the document is no= t in a position > of making decisions regarding the spec being violated. >=20 > That would be like a waste of energy and time for all. >=20 >=20 >=20 > At the moment, the draft only mentions RFC8200 in a= context that discusses neither insertion nor removal of extension header= s, which is beside the point. Like draft-voyer, if it describes a violati= on of RFC8200, shouldn't that be explicit in the text? >=20 > There's a lot of jargon in draft-ietf-spring-srv6-n= etwork-programming. I can't tell from the jargon whether "insert" means "= insert on the fly" and whether "Pop the SRH" means "delete on the fly". S= hould those terms be clarified before the draft advances? >=20 >=20 > Well, if it's not clear to you, it would seem to me tha= t the simple > answer would be "yes". >=20 >=20 > But if "insert" refers to the encapsulating node at the SR = domain ingress, it's no problem, and if "pop" simply means doing normal r= outing header processing, it's no problem. It simply isn't clear in the t= ext, at least not clear to me. >=20 >=20 > The fact that a folk that has been deeply involved with IPv6 ca= nnot > unequivocally tell what they talking about should be an indicat= ion with > respect to how ready the document is to be shipped. >=20 > (pop when you are the destination but SL!=3D0 is essentially 'i= n the > network removal') >=20 > THanks, > --=20 > Fernando Gont > SI6 Networks > e-mail: fgont@si6networks.com > PGP Fingerprint: 6666 31C6 D484 63B2 8FB1 E3C4 AE25 0D55 1D4E 7= 492 >=20 >=20 > =C2=A0 >=20 From nobody Mon Dec 9 12:32:15 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41A91120236; Mon, 9 Dec 2019 12:32:14 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2sh2JsBr2DYB; Mon, 9 Dec 2019 12:32:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from fgont.go6lab.si (fgont.go6lab.si [91.239.96.14]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 55E1812018B; Mon, 9 Dec 2019 12:32:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.7] (unknown [181.113.147.236]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by fgont.go6lab.si (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 174AC829D0; Mon, 9 Dec 2019 21:32:07 +0100 (CET) To: bruno.decraene@orange.com, 'SPRING WG List' Cc: "6man@ietf.org" <6man@ietf.org>, draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming References: <17421_1575566127_5DE93B2F_17421_93_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D1A3DA@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> From: Fernando Gont Autocrypt: addr=fgont@si6networks.com; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBE5so2gBEACzBQBLUy8nzgAzSZn6ViXT6TmZBFNYNqTpPRvTVtUqF6+tkI+IEd9N2E8p pXUXCd0W4dkxz6o7pagnK63m4QSueggvp881RVVHOF8oTSHOdnGxLfLeLNJFKE1FOutU3vod GK/wG/Fwzkv9MebdXpMlLV8nnJuAt66XGl/lU1JrNfrKO4SoYQi4TsB/waUQcygh7OR/PEO0 EttiU8kZUbZNv58WH+PAj/rdZCrgUSiGXiWUQQKShqKnJxLuAcTcg5YRwL8se/V6ciW0QR9i /sr52gSmLLbW5N3hAoO+nv1V/9SjJAUvzXu43k8sua/XlCXkqU7uLj41CRR72JeUZ4DQsYfP LfNPC98ZGTVxbWbFtLXxpzzDDT8i3uo7w1LJ2Ij/d5ezcARqw01HGljWWxnidUrjbTpxkJ9X EllcsH94mer728j/HKzC9OcTuz6WUBP3Crgl6Q47gY5ZIiF0lsmd9/wxbaq5NiJ+lGuBRZrD v0dQx9KmyI0/pH2AF8cW897/6ypvcyD/1/11CJcN+uAGIrklwJlVpRSbKbFtGC6In592lhu7 wnK8cgyP5cTU+vva9+g6P1wehi4bylXdlKc6mMphbtSA+T3WBNP557+mh3L62l4pGaEGidcZ DLYT2Ud18eAJmxU3HnM8P3iZZgeoK7oqgb53/eg96vkONXNIOwARAQABtCVGZXJuYW5kbyBH b250IDxmZ29udEBzaTZuZXR3b3Jrcy5jb20+iQJBBBMBAgArAhsjBQkSzAMABgsJCAcDAgYV CAIJCgsEFgIDAQIeAQIXgAUCTmylpQIZAQAKCRCuJQ1VHU50kv7wD/9fuNtTfxSLk3B3Hs3p ixTy8YXVjdkVwWlnJjFd7BOWmg7sI+LDhpjGfT6+ddOiwkumnvUZpObodj4ysH0i8c7P4C5t F9yu7WjklSlrB5Rth2CGChg5bKt541z2WHkFFxys9qBLmCSYDeKQkzLqhCjIUJizY2kOJ2GI MnSFDzJjhSFEh//oW830Y8fel1xnf/NVF+lBVtRMtMOfoWUqDjvP3sJ1G4zgkDCnF0CfncLx +hq2Mv26Uq9OTzvLH9aSQQ/f067BOkKAJKsfHdborX4E96ISTz57/4xECRSMr5dVsKVm4Y// uVIsb+L5z+a32FaiBZIAKDgnJO7Z8j6CV5e5yfuBTtX52Yi9HjYYqnYJGSDxYd6igD4bWu+7 xmJPHjkdqZgGV6dQIgiUfqkU+s5Cv350vK48CMaT/ZLo2BdsMhWsmaHmb+waePUMyq6E4E9x 9Js+EJb9ZiCfxS9exgieZQpet1L36IvhiwByvkQM009ywfa30JeMOltUtfLi5V06WQWsTzPL 5C+4cpkguSuAJVDTctjCA0moIeVDOpJ8WH9voQ4IeWapQnX35OIoj1jGJqqYdx65gc1ygbyx b8vw+pJ9E5GLse5TQnYifOWpXzX9053dtbwp/2OVhU4KLlzfCPCEsoTyfu9nIZxdI2PMwiL5 M85BfjX4NmwBLmPGoLkCDQRObKNoARAAqqXCkr250BchRDmi+05F5UQFgylUh10XTAJxBeaQ UNtdxZiZRm6jgomSrqeYtricM9t9K0qb4X2ZXmAMW8o8AYW3RrQHTjcBwMnAKzUIEXXWaLfG cid/ygmvWzIHgMDQKP+MUq1AGQrnvt/MRLvZLyczAV1RTXS58qNaxtaSpc3K/yrDozh/a4pu WcUsVvIkzyx43sqcwamDSBb6U8JFoZizuLXiARLLASgyHrrCedNIZdWSx0z0iHEpZIelA2ih AGLiSMtmtikVEyrJICgO81DkKNCbBbPg+7fi23V6M24+3syHk3IdQibTtBMxinIPyLFF0byJ aGm0fmjefhnmVJyCIl/FDkCHprVhTme57G2/WdoGnUvnT7mcwDRb8XY5nNRkOJsqqLPemKjz kx8mXdQbunXtX9bKyVgd1gIl+LLsxbdzRCch773UBVoortPdK3kMyLtZ4uMeDX3comjx+6VL bztUdJ1Zc9/njwVG8fgmQ+0Kj5+bzQfUY+MmX0HTXIx3B4R1I1a8QoOwi1N+iZNdewV5Zfq+ 29NlQLnVPjCRCKbaz9k6RJ2oIti55YUI6zSsL3lmlOXsRbXN5bRswFczkNSCJxJMlDiyAUIC WOay7ymzvgzPa+BY/mYn94vRaurDQ4/ljOfj6oqgfjts+dJev4Jj89vp8MQI3KJpZPEAEQEA AYkCJQQYAQIADwUCTmyjaAIbDAUJEswDAAAKCRCuJQ1VHU50km4xEACho45PZrUjY4Zl2opR DFNo5a6roTOPpgwO9PcBb3I5F8yX2Dnew+9OhgWXbBhAFq4DCx+9Gjs43Bn60qbZTDbLGJ/m 8N4PwEiq0e5MKceYcbetEdEUWhm5L6psU9ZZ82GR3UGxPXYe+oifEoJjOXQ39avf9S8p3yKP Diil0E79rn7LbJjMcgMLyjFg9SDoJ6pHLtniJoDhEAaSSgeV7Y745+gyMIdtQmrFHfqrFdjq D6G0HE+Z68ywc5KN67YxhvhBmSycs1ZSKAXv1zLDlXdmjHDHkU3xMcB+RkuiTba8yRFYwb/n j62CC4NhFTuIKOc4ta3dJsyXTGh/hO9UjWUnmAGfd0fnzTBZF8Qlnw/8ftx5lt4/O+eqY1EN RITScnPzXE/wMOlTtdkddQ+QN6xt6jyR2XtAIi7aAFHypIqA3lLI9hF9x+lj4UQ2yA9LqpoX 6URpPOd13JhAyDe47cwsP1u9Y+OBvQTVLSvw7Liu2b4KjqL4lx++VdBi7dXsjJ6kjIRjI6Lb WVpxe8LumMCuVDepTafBZ49gr7Fgc4F9ZSCo6ChgQNLn6WDzIkqFX+42KuHz90AHWhuW+KZR 1aJylERWeTcMCGUSBptd48KniWmD6kPKpzwoMkJtEXTuO2lVuborxzwuqOTNuYg9lWDl7zKt wPI9brGzquUHy4qRrA== Message-ID: <6c674995-8cc7-c024-4181-60b160910f75@si6networks.com> Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2019 15:31:50 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <17421_1575566127_5DE93B2F_17421_93_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D1A3DA@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2019 20:32:14 -0000 Bruno, On 5/12/19 12:15, bruno.decraene@orange.com wrote: [....]> > This email starts a two weeks Working Group Last Call on > draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming [1]. > >   > > Please read this document if you haven't read the most recent version, > and send your comments to the SPRING WG list, no later than December 20. > >   > > You may copy the 6MAN WG for IPv6 related comment, but consider not > duplicating emails on the 6MAN mailing list for the comments which are > only spring specifics. > >   > > If you are raising a point which you expect will be specifically debated > on the mailing list, consider using a specific email/thread for this point. > > This may help avoiding that the thread become specific to this point and > that other points get forgotten (or that the thread get converted into > parallel independent discussions) Penultimate Segment Popping describes/specifies the removal of a SRH at a place other than the final destination of the packet. Such behavior violates RFC8200, which specifies: Extension headers (except for the Hop-by-Hop Options header) are not processed, inserted, or deleted by any node along a packet's delivery path, until the packet reaches the node (or each of the set of nodes, in the case of multicast) identified in the Destination Address field of the IPv6 header. Note, of course, that the reference of "Destination Address" in RFC8200 is clearly the final destination of the packet -- for instance, RFC8200 does not specify any routing header type, and hence the meaning is unambiguous (there's no destination other than the final destination of the packet). This is of course in line with IPv6 being and end-to-end protocol, and crucial for other related mechanisms to work as expected (such as IPsec AH). Please also check: draft-smith-6man-in-flight-eh-insertion-harmful. So, in order to proceed with the document, there are multiple options forward: 1) Just remove the corresponding text/behavior 2) Implement a similar mechanism in an RFC8200-compliant manner (e.g., re-encap) 3) Do the necessary standards work to update RFC8200, such that it allows this sort of behavior, and only ship the network-programming draft for publication when at least 6man has consensus to proceed on that path. P.S.: I will go through the document once again... but the same reasoning should be applied to any EH-insertion/removal at a place other than the source of the packet or its final destination. Thanks, -- Fernando Gont SI6 Networks e-mail: fgont@si6networks.com PGP Fingerprint: 6666 31C6 D484 63B2 8FB1 E3C4 AE25 0D55 1D4E 7492 From nobody Mon Dec 9 12:42:48 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 412F5120020 for ; Mon, 9 Dec 2019 12:42:46 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xZs_egQqirwl for ; Mon, 9 Dec 2019 12:42:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from fgont.go6lab.si (fgont.go6lab.si [91.239.96.14]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6DE191201E0 for ; Mon, 9 Dec 2019 12:42:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.7] (unknown [181.113.147.236]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by fgont.go6lab.si (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 8D23882A89; Mon, 9 Dec 2019 21:42:40 +0100 (CET) To: Brian E Carpenter , "li_zhenqiang@hotmail.com" , Ron Bonica , Suresh Krishnan , "spring@ietf.org" Cc: Andrew Alston , Bob Hinden , Ole Troan , Sander Steffann References: <741f9da7-5abf-2798-04cb-45ce3f14704b@gmail.com> From: Fernando Gont Autocrypt: addr=fgont@si6networks.com; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBE5so2gBEACzBQBLUy8nzgAzSZn6ViXT6TmZBFNYNqTpPRvTVtUqF6+tkI+IEd9N2E8p pXUXCd0W4dkxz6o7pagnK63m4QSueggvp881RVVHOF8oTSHOdnGxLfLeLNJFKE1FOutU3vod GK/wG/Fwzkv9MebdXpMlLV8nnJuAt66XGl/lU1JrNfrKO4SoYQi4TsB/waUQcygh7OR/PEO0 EttiU8kZUbZNv58WH+PAj/rdZCrgUSiGXiWUQQKShqKnJxLuAcTcg5YRwL8se/V6ciW0QR9i /sr52gSmLLbW5N3hAoO+nv1V/9SjJAUvzXu43k8sua/XlCXkqU7uLj41CRR72JeUZ4DQsYfP LfNPC98ZGTVxbWbFtLXxpzzDDT8i3uo7w1LJ2Ij/d5ezcARqw01HGljWWxnidUrjbTpxkJ9X EllcsH94mer728j/HKzC9OcTuz6WUBP3Crgl6Q47gY5ZIiF0lsmd9/wxbaq5NiJ+lGuBRZrD v0dQx9KmyI0/pH2AF8cW897/6ypvcyD/1/11CJcN+uAGIrklwJlVpRSbKbFtGC6In592lhu7 wnK8cgyP5cTU+vva9+g6P1wehi4bylXdlKc6mMphbtSA+T3WBNP557+mh3L62l4pGaEGidcZ DLYT2Ud18eAJmxU3HnM8P3iZZgeoK7oqgb53/eg96vkONXNIOwARAQABtCVGZXJuYW5kbyBH b250IDxmZ29udEBzaTZuZXR3b3Jrcy5jb20+iQJBBBMBAgArAhsjBQkSzAMABgsJCAcDAgYV CAIJCgsEFgIDAQIeAQIXgAUCTmylpQIZAQAKCRCuJQ1VHU50kv7wD/9fuNtTfxSLk3B3Hs3p ixTy8YXVjdkVwWlnJjFd7BOWmg7sI+LDhpjGfT6+ddOiwkumnvUZpObodj4ysH0i8c7P4C5t F9yu7WjklSlrB5Rth2CGChg5bKt541z2WHkFFxys9qBLmCSYDeKQkzLqhCjIUJizY2kOJ2GI MnSFDzJjhSFEh//oW830Y8fel1xnf/NVF+lBVtRMtMOfoWUqDjvP3sJ1G4zgkDCnF0CfncLx +hq2Mv26Uq9OTzvLH9aSQQ/f067BOkKAJKsfHdborX4E96ISTz57/4xECRSMr5dVsKVm4Y// uVIsb+L5z+a32FaiBZIAKDgnJO7Z8j6CV5e5yfuBTtX52Yi9HjYYqnYJGSDxYd6igD4bWu+7 xmJPHjkdqZgGV6dQIgiUfqkU+s5Cv350vK48CMaT/ZLo2BdsMhWsmaHmb+waePUMyq6E4E9x 9Js+EJb9ZiCfxS9exgieZQpet1L36IvhiwByvkQM009ywfa30JeMOltUtfLi5V06WQWsTzPL 5C+4cpkguSuAJVDTctjCA0moIeVDOpJ8WH9voQ4IeWapQnX35OIoj1jGJqqYdx65gc1ygbyx b8vw+pJ9E5GLse5TQnYifOWpXzX9053dtbwp/2OVhU4KLlzfCPCEsoTyfu9nIZxdI2PMwiL5 M85BfjX4NmwBLmPGoLkCDQRObKNoARAAqqXCkr250BchRDmi+05F5UQFgylUh10XTAJxBeaQ UNtdxZiZRm6jgomSrqeYtricM9t9K0qb4X2ZXmAMW8o8AYW3RrQHTjcBwMnAKzUIEXXWaLfG cid/ygmvWzIHgMDQKP+MUq1AGQrnvt/MRLvZLyczAV1RTXS58qNaxtaSpc3K/yrDozh/a4pu WcUsVvIkzyx43sqcwamDSBb6U8JFoZizuLXiARLLASgyHrrCedNIZdWSx0z0iHEpZIelA2ih AGLiSMtmtikVEyrJICgO81DkKNCbBbPg+7fi23V6M24+3syHk3IdQibTtBMxinIPyLFF0byJ aGm0fmjefhnmVJyCIl/FDkCHprVhTme57G2/WdoGnUvnT7mcwDRb8XY5nNRkOJsqqLPemKjz kx8mXdQbunXtX9bKyVgd1gIl+LLsxbdzRCch773UBVoortPdK3kMyLtZ4uMeDX3comjx+6VL bztUdJ1Zc9/njwVG8fgmQ+0Kj5+bzQfUY+MmX0HTXIx3B4R1I1a8QoOwi1N+iZNdewV5Zfq+ 29NlQLnVPjCRCKbaz9k6RJ2oIti55YUI6zSsL3lmlOXsRbXN5bRswFczkNSCJxJMlDiyAUIC WOay7ymzvgzPa+BY/mYn94vRaurDQ4/ljOfj6oqgfjts+dJev4Jj89vp8MQI3KJpZPEAEQEA AYkCJQQYAQIADwUCTmyjaAIbDAUJEswDAAAKCRCuJQ1VHU50km4xEACho45PZrUjY4Zl2opR DFNo5a6roTOPpgwO9PcBb3I5F8yX2Dnew+9OhgWXbBhAFq4DCx+9Gjs43Bn60qbZTDbLGJ/m 8N4PwEiq0e5MKceYcbetEdEUWhm5L6psU9ZZ82GR3UGxPXYe+oifEoJjOXQ39avf9S8p3yKP Diil0E79rn7LbJjMcgMLyjFg9SDoJ6pHLtniJoDhEAaSSgeV7Y745+gyMIdtQmrFHfqrFdjq D6G0HE+Z68ywc5KN67YxhvhBmSycs1ZSKAXv1zLDlXdmjHDHkU3xMcB+RkuiTba8yRFYwb/n j62CC4NhFTuIKOc4ta3dJsyXTGh/hO9UjWUnmAGfd0fnzTBZF8Qlnw/8ftx5lt4/O+eqY1EN RITScnPzXE/wMOlTtdkddQ+QN6xt6jyR2XtAIi7aAFHypIqA3lLI9hF9x+lj4UQ2yA9LqpoX 6URpPOd13JhAyDe47cwsP1u9Y+OBvQTVLSvw7Liu2b4KjqL4lx++VdBi7dXsjJ6kjIRjI6Lb WVpxe8LumMCuVDepTafBZ49gr7Fgc4F9ZSCo6ChgQNLn6WDzIkqFX+42KuHz90AHWhuW+KZR 1aJylERWeTcMCGUSBptd48KniWmD6kPKpzwoMkJtEXTuO2lVuborxzwuqOTNuYg9lWDl7zKt wPI9brGzquUHy4qRrA== Message-ID: Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2019 15:36:45 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <741f9da7-5abf-2798-04cb-45ce3f14704b@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] PHP - Deep Listening X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2019 20:42:46 -0000 On 9/12/19 14:57, Brian E Carpenter wrote: > As I have already said, in: > >> S14.1. If (updated SL == 0) { >> S14.2. Pop the SRH > > neither "updated SL" nor "Pop the SRH" is well defined in the text, so we simply cannot tell whether RFC8200 is violated. Fully agree. Rumor has it that "updated SL" is the SL that the packet would use if it were to be forwarded. And "Pop the SRH" is "remove the SRH". So essentially the Penultimate Hop/Segment is getting rid of the SRH that actually the next segment should be processing (hence the name of the mechanism). That said, of course the fact of having to resort to "assumptions" or "rumors" is kind of antagonistic to the meaning of "specification". So I agree with you. Thanks, -- Fernando Gont SI6 Networks e-mail: fgont@si6networks.com PGP Fingerprint: 6666 31C6 D484 63B2 8FB1 E3C4 AE25 0D55 1D4E 7492 From nobody Mon Dec 9 12:54:51 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55DA21201AA; Mon, 9 Dec 2019 12:54:49 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id r-k-YNB_A-Gs; Mon, 9 Dec 2019 12:54:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from fgont.go6lab.si (fgont.go6lab.si [91.239.96.14]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DF8061200B3; Mon, 9 Dec 2019 12:54:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.7] (unknown [181.113.147.236]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by fgont.go6lab.si (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 49E6982C03; Mon, 9 Dec 2019 21:54:42 +0100 (CET) To: bruno.decraene@orange.com Cc: Ron Bonica , "spring@ietf.org" , "6man@ietf.org" <6man@ietf.org>, draft-voyer-6man-extension-header-insertion , li zhenqiang , draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming , Suresh Krishnan References: <3e31873a-278a-2154-0e71-4d820bba323d@gont.com.ar> <4012D854-2F10-4476-951D-FFFE73C5083C@gmail.com> <28214_1567694772_5D711FB4_28214_238_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48BFA9F3@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> From: Fernando Gont Autocrypt: addr=fernando@gont.com.ar; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBE5so2gBEACzBQBLUy8nzgAzSZn6ViXT6TmZBFNYNqTpPRvTVtUqF6+tkI+IEd9N2E8p pXUXCd0W4dkxz6o7pagnK63m4QSueggvp881RVVHOF8oTSHOdnGxLfLeLNJFKE1FOutU3vod GK/wG/Fwzkv9MebdXpMlLV8nnJuAt66XGl/lU1JrNfrKO4SoYQi4TsB/waUQcygh7OR/PEO0 EttiU8kZUbZNv58WH+PAj/rdZCrgUSiGXiWUQQKShqKnJxLuAcTcg5YRwL8se/V6ciW0QR9i /sr52gSmLLbW5N3hAoO+nv1V/9SjJAUvzXu43k8sua/XlCXkqU7uLj41CRR72JeUZ4DQsYfP LfNPC98ZGTVxbWbFtLXxpzzDDT8i3uo7w1LJ2Ij/d5ezcARqw01HGljWWxnidUrjbTpxkJ9X EllcsH94mer728j/HKzC9OcTuz6WUBP3Crgl6Q47gY5ZIiF0lsmd9/wxbaq5NiJ+lGuBRZrD v0dQx9KmyI0/pH2AF8cW897/6ypvcyD/1/11CJcN+uAGIrklwJlVpRSbKbFtGC6In592lhu7 wnK8cgyP5cTU+vva9+g6P1wehi4bylXdlKc6mMphbtSA+T3WBNP557+mh3L62l4pGaEGidcZ DLYT2Ud18eAJmxU3HnM8P3iZZgeoK7oqgb53/eg96vkONXNIOwARAQABtCVGZXJuYW5kbyBH b250IDxmZ29udEBzaTZuZXR3b3Jrcy5jb20+iQJBBBMBAgArAhsjBQkSzAMABgsJCAcDAgYV CAIJCgsEFgIDAQIeAQIXgAUCTmylpQIZAQAKCRCuJQ1VHU50kv7wD/9fuNtTfxSLk3B3Hs3p ixTy8YXVjdkVwWlnJjFd7BOWmg7sI+LDhpjGfT6+ddOiwkumnvUZpObodj4ysH0i8c7P4C5t F9yu7WjklSlrB5Rth2CGChg5bKt541z2WHkFFxys9qBLmCSYDeKQkzLqhCjIUJizY2kOJ2GI MnSFDzJjhSFEh//oW830Y8fel1xnf/NVF+lBVtRMtMOfoWUqDjvP3sJ1G4zgkDCnF0CfncLx +hq2Mv26Uq9OTzvLH9aSQQ/f067BOkKAJKsfHdborX4E96ISTz57/4xECRSMr5dVsKVm4Y// uVIsb+L5z+a32FaiBZIAKDgnJO7Z8j6CV5e5yfuBTtX52Yi9HjYYqnYJGSDxYd6igD4bWu+7 xmJPHjkdqZgGV6dQIgiUfqkU+s5Cv350vK48CMaT/ZLo2BdsMhWsmaHmb+waePUMyq6E4E9x 9Js+EJb9ZiCfxS9exgieZQpet1L36IvhiwByvkQM009ywfa30JeMOltUtfLi5V06WQWsTzPL 5C+4cpkguSuAJVDTctjCA0moIeVDOpJ8WH9voQ4IeWapQnX35OIoj1jGJqqYdx65gc1ygbyx b8vw+pJ9E5GLse5TQnYifOWpXzX9053dtbwp/2OVhU4KLlzfCPCEsoTyfu9nIZxdI2PMwiL5 M85BfjX4NmwBLmPGoLkCDQRObKNoARAAqqXCkr250BchRDmi+05F5UQFgylUh10XTAJxBeaQ UNtdxZiZRm6jgomSrqeYtricM9t9K0qb4X2ZXmAMW8o8AYW3RrQHTjcBwMnAKzUIEXXWaLfG cid/ygmvWzIHgMDQKP+MUq1AGQrnvt/MRLvZLyczAV1RTXS58qNaxtaSpc3K/yrDozh/a4pu WcUsVvIkzyx43sqcwamDSBb6U8JFoZizuLXiARLLASgyHrrCedNIZdWSx0z0iHEpZIelA2ih AGLiSMtmtikVEyrJICgO81DkKNCbBbPg+7fi23V6M24+3syHk3IdQibTtBMxinIPyLFF0byJ aGm0fmjefhnmVJyCIl/FDkCHprVhTme57G2/WdoGnUvnT7mcwDRb8XY5nNRkOJsqqLPemKjz kx8mXdQbunXtX9bKyVgd1gIl+LLsxbdzRCch773UBVoortPdK3kMyLtZ4uMeDX3comjx+6VL bztUdJ1Zc9/njwVG8fgmQ+0Kj5+bzQfUY+MmX0HTXIx3B4R1I1a8QoOwi1N+iZNdewV5Zfq+ 29NlQLnVPjCRCKbaz9k6RJ2oIti55YUI6zSsL3lmlOXsRbXN5bRswFczkNSCJxJMlDiyAUIC WOay7ymzvgzPa+BY/mYn94vRaurDQ4/ljOfj6oqgfjts+dJev4Jj89vp8MQI3KJpZPEAEQEA AYkCJQQYAQIADwUCTmyjaAIbDAUJEswDAAAKCRCuJQ1VHU50km4xEACho45PZrUjY4Zl2opR DFNo5a6roTOPpgwO9PcBb3I5F8yX2Dnew+9OhgWXbBhAFq4DCx+9Gjs43Bn60qbZTDbLGJ/m 8N4PwEiq0e5MKceYcbetEdEUWhm5L6psU9ZZ82GR3UGxPXYe+oifEoJjOXQ39avf9S8p3yKP Diil0E79rn7LbJjMcgMLyjFg9SDoJ6pHLtniJoDhEAaSSgeV7Y745+gyMIdtQmrFHfqrFdjq D6G0HE+Z68ywc5KN67YxhvhBmSycs1ZSKAXv1zLDlXdmjHDHkU3xMcB+RkuiTba8yRFYwb/n j62CC4NhFTuIKOc4ta3dJsyXTGh/hO9UjWUnmAGfd0fnzTBZF8Qlnw/8ftx5lt4/O+eqY1EN RITScnPzXE/wMOlTtdkddQ+QN6xt6jyR2XtAIi7aAFHypIqA3lLI9hF9x+lj4UQ2yA9LqpoX 6URpPOd13JhAyDe47cwsP1u9Y+OBvQTVLSvw7Liu2b4KjqL4lx++VdBi7dXsjJ6kjIRjI6Lb WVpxe8LumMCuVDepTafBZ49gr7Fgc4F9ZSCo6ChgQNLn6WDzIkqFX+42KuHz90AHWhuW+KZR 1aJylERWeTcMCGUSBptd48KniWmD6kPKpzwoMkJtEXTuO2lVuborxzwuqOTNuYg9lWDl7zKt wPI9brGzquUHy4qRrA== Message-ID: <129bbb32-0f14-b799-430c-8f76fb6b1279@gont.com.ar> Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2019 15:54:26 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <28214_1567694772_5D711FB4_28214_238_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48BFA9F3@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Question about SRv6 Insert function X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2019 20:54:49 -0000 On 5/9/19 09:46, bruno.decraene@orange.com wrote: [....] >> >> Since there have been plenty of attempts to do EH insertion or >> leave the IPv6 standard ambiguous in this respect, and the IETF has >> had consensus that EH insertion is not allowed, I think it would be >> bad, wastefull, tricky, and even dangerous to let a document go >> through the whole publication process, and just rely on the AD to >> keep the "DISCUSS" button pressed. > > draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming has a normative reference > to [I-D.voyer-6man-extension-header-insertion] > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-01#section-13.1 > > As such, from a process standpoint, it would not going to be > published before [I-D.voyer-6man-extension-header-insertion] be > itself published as RFC. And from its name, the latter is intended to > be discussed and within control of the 6MAN WG. So I don't think that > we can say that it "just rely on the AD to keep the "DISCUSS" button > pressed." Yes, it is just relying on that. A question of you as a chair: does the wg you chair publish documents based on current specs (or at the very least based on changes that are going to happen in the near term as a result of *existing and proven consensus*), or does spring ship documents that implicitly betting on changes that have no consensus? The former is how I expect WGs to operate. The later shows a clear path to a huge pile of documents stuck at IESG review, simply because so later in the process folks found out that the document turns out to violate existing specs. With the risk of an AD pressing "YES", and hence IETF has been circumvented. Thanks, -- Fernando Gont e-mail: fernando@gont.com.ar || fgont@si6networks.com PGP Fingerprint: 7809 84F5 322E 45C7 F1C9 3945 96EE A9EF D076 FFF1 From nobody Mon Dec 9 14:45:09 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BAFD120113 for ; Mon, 9 Dec 2019 14:45:04 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=juniper.net header.b=jAZ18pWz; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=juniper.net header.b=fVXdIzIb Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nzU0BkjaTush for ; 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boundary="_000_BN7PR05MB5699B42D96EF203881569C78AE580BN7PR05MB5699namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: e4872266-6157-47a5-b870-08d77cf96aca X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 09 Dec 2019 22:44:57.4766 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: TXfLVehqB4wqxPI/6q6BuHGkYZSDIE7fPvDTawLePULlkTTLYpkaBdVmes6ClQboU85kY/lzFtwEhCp+jzrc6g== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN7PR05MB4065 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.95,18.0.572 definitions=2019-12-09_05:2019-12-09,2019-12-09 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_spam_notspam policy=outbound_spam score=0 priorityscore=1501 mlxscore=0 suspectscore=0 clxscore=1015 impostorscore=0 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 malwarescore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 phishscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-1910280000 definitions=main-1912090178 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] SRv6 And ICMP Processing X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2019 22:45:04 -0000 --_000_BN7PR05MB5699B42D96EF203881569C78AE580BN7PR05MB5699namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Pablo, Could you make this clear in the specification. Currently, Section 4.2 sugg= esst that processing is the same as Section 4.1 except for the following su= bstitution: "When N receives a packet destined to S and S is a local End.X SID, the li= ne S15 from the End processing is replaced by the following: S15. Set the packet's egress adjacency to J" = Ron Juniper Business Use Only From: Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril) Sent: Monday, December 9, 2019 10:17 AM To: Ron Bonica ; SPRING WG Subject: Re: [spring] SRv6 And ICMP Processing Ron, In the example you listed the SRv6 implementation does not reply sending an= ICMPv6 Parameter Problem message. As you said, this would be a violation of RFC4443. I believe that RFC4443 i= s very clear about this. Thanks, Pablo. From: spring > on b= ehalf of Ron Bonica > Date: Monday, 25 November 2019 at 20:22 To: SPRING WG > Subject: [spring] SRv6 And ICMP Processing Pablo, Assume that an SRv6 implementation receives the following packet: - IPv6 Header o Destination Address is a locally instantiated END.DX4 SID o Next Header is ICMPv6 - ICMPv6 Header o Type is Parameter Problem Section 4.5 of draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-05 suggests that = the implementation would respond by sending another ICMPv6 Parameter Proble= m message. This would violate RFC 4443, Section 2.4.e. You might want to add some text to the draft stating compliance with the ru= les in Section 2.4 of RFC 4443. = ROn Juniper Business Use Only --_000_BN7PR05MB5699B42D96EF203881569C78AE580BN7PR05MB5699namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Pablo,

 

Could you make this clear in the specification. Curr= ently, Section 4.2 suggesst that processing is the same as Section 4.1 exce= pt for the following substitution:

 

“When N receives a packet destined to S and S = is a local End.X SID,  the line S15 from the End processing is replace= d by the following:

 

        S15. = ;  Set the packet's egress adjacency to J”

 

 

        &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;     Ron

 

 

Juniper Business Use Only

From: Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril) <pcamaril= @cisco.com>
Sent: Monday, December 9, 2019 10:17 AM
To: Ron Bonica <rbonica@juniper.net>; SPRING WG <spring@iet= f.org>
Subject: Re: [spring] SRv6 And ICMP Processing

 

Ron,

 

In the example you listed the S= Rv6 implementation does not reply sending an ICMPv6 Parameter Problem messa= ge.

As you said, this would be a vi= olation of RFC4443. I believe that RFC4443 is very clear about this.

 

Thanks,

Pablo.

 

From: spring <spring-bounces@ietf.org> on beha= lf of Ron Bonica <rbonica=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>
Date: Monday, 25 November 2019 at 20:22
To: SPRING WG <spring@ietf.org= >
Subject: [spring] SRv6 And ICMP Processing

 

Pablo,

 

Assume that an SRv6 imple= mentation receives the following packet:

 

-    = ;      IPv6 Header

o   Destination Address is a locally instantiate= d END.DX4 SID

o   Next Header is ICMPv6=

-    = ;      ICMPv6 Header

o   Type is Parameter Problem<= o:p>

 <= o:p>

Section 4.5 of draft-ietf= -spring-srv6-network-programming-05 suggests that the implementation would = respond by sending another ICMPv6 Parameter Problem message. This would vio= late RFC 4443, Section 2.4.e.

 

You might want to add som= e text to the draft stating compliance with the rules in Section 2.4 of RFC= 4443.

 

    &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;             =      ROn

 <= o:p>

 <= o:p>

&n= bsp;

Juniper Business Us= e Only

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boundary="_000_BN7PR05MB569965E0D376019C923102F5AE580BN7PR05MB5699namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 30da7dc6-a1f2-46c5-6bef-08d77cf9d28f X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 09 Dec 2019 22:47:51.6480 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: yXYXkgoGxtV+0N5sLeMBcUiKlr+zg6mXlj9GAZTSnirftyf21DMZM6rr1XmI5S7IubzJ4bggRTndNPNODDHozw== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN7PR05MB4145 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.95,18.0.572 definitions=2019-12-09_05:2019-12-09,2019-12-09 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_spam_notspam policy=outbound_spam score=0 lowpriorityscore=0 adultscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1015 impostorscore=0 bulkscore=0 mlxscore=0 malwarescore=0 mlxlogscore=999 phishscore=0 suspectscore=0 priorityscore=1501 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-1910280000 definitions=main-1912090178 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] SRv6 Network Programming - ICMP Source Address Selection X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2019 22:47:59 -0000 --_000_BN7PR05MB569965E0D376019C923102F5AE580BN7PR05MB5699namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Pablo, Section 2.2 of RFC 4443 offers two options. If you think that a SID is a un= icast address, the first option is applicable. If you think that a SID is n= ot a unicast address, the second option is applicable. Which did you choose? Ro= n Juniper Business Use Only From: Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril) Sent: Monday, December 9, 2019 10:18 AM To: Ron Bonica ; SPRING WG ; 6man <6m= an@ietf.org> Subject: Re: SRv6 Network Programming - ICMP Source Address Selection Ron, As you pointed out in your email, RFC4443 Section 2.2 is very clear about h= ow to select the source address. draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming does not change this. Thanks, Pablo. From: ipv6 > on behalf = of Ron Bonica > Date: Friday, 6 December 2019 at 17:40 To: SPRING WG >, 6man <6man@ietf.or= g> Subject: SRv6 Network Programming - ICMP Source Address Selection Authors, When an SRv6 node sends an ICMP message, how does it select the ICMP messag= e's source address? Section 2.2 of RFC 4443 offers two options. If you think that a SID is a un= icast address, the first option is applicable. If you think that a SID is n= ot a unicast address, the second option is applicable. Ron Juniper Business Use Only --_000_BN7PR05MB569965E0D376019C923102F5AE580BN7PR05MB5699namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Pablo,

 

Section 2.2 of RFC 4443 offers two options. If you t= hink that a SID is a unicast address, the first option is applicable. If yo= u think that a SID is not a unicast address, the second option is applicabl= e.

 

Which did you choose?

 

        &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp; Ron

 

 

Juniper Business Use Only

From: Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril) <pcamaril= @cisco.com>
Sent: Monday, December 9, 2019 10:18 AM
To: Ron Bonica <rbonica@juniper.net>; SPRING WG <spring@iet= f.org>; 6man <6man@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: SRv6 Network Programming - ICMP Source Address Selectio= n

 

Ron,

 

As you pointed out in your emai= l, RFC4443 Section 2.2 is very clear about how to select the source address= .

draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-= programming does not change this.

 

Thanks,

Pablo.

 

From: ipv6 <ipv6-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of R= on Bonica <rbo= nica=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>
Date: Friday, 6 December 2019 at 17:40
To: SPRING WG <spring@ietf.org= >, 6man <6man@ietf.org> Subject: SRv6 Network Programming - ICMP Source Address Selection

 

Authors,

 

When an SRv6 node sends a= n ICMP message, how does it select the ICMP message’s source address?=

 

Section 2.2 of RFC 4443 o= ffers two options. If you think that a SID is a unicast address, the first = option is applicable. If you think that a SID is not a unicast address, the= second option is applicable.

 

    &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;  Ron

&n= bsp;

Juniper Business Us= e Only

--_000_BN7PR05MB569965E0D376019C923102F5AE580BN7PR05MB5699namp_-- From nobody Mon Dec 9 14:56:19 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47554120113 for ; Mon, 9 Dec 2019 14:56:13 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=kumari-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vqwtCRUOfBdg for ; Mon, 9 Dec 2019 14:56:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qk1-x731.google.com (mail-qk1-x731.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::731]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 436B812018B for ; Mon, 9 Dec 2019 14:56:10 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qk1-x731.google.com with SMTP id m188so14757167qkc.4 for ; Mon, 09 Dec 2019 14:56:10 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=kumari-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=oX+8Z1UqSUugy795OysjLyhaX1/Unln6emhgpqkhu/M=; b=iIIhLxI+yPbU1iZy/5rI51TKpHckJzOk386/8iebfC+S4SrninzVszx3prvO43iYC6 OMx82OZ8j7rq9tAIY8/NhJNz4wSCvpXr3+lj9JwPefqr4Yoxd8hHydcA1N1v23CUZMad KNwfVjxssaVpe2qsbDUJXeRvriiVYfHLTvX3SmXsKjvWVfGZLHYr5Bbbw8LLe09c8C4g FBITS7NcN2X7HVdg+Paz1euN8Xx+lEceI/ZZU9yHDRcuE/3IoOQdfXvFZnrBfxLkXxen IvqfHnxQI+4lRlH+t3WYlv3xxvdiUmfV/89iZfUsA1jfoPrSNhhUk3PJjDW+DGZf7Zry 53Hg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=oX+8Z1UqSUugy795OysjLyhaX1/Unln6emhgpqkhu/M=; b=Y/Ah2MvybosAgepdHfgDNtWESTxa3jEemxBAmAjxW3+oh6BS1jGMdPpVT4ECsThevs I5iV8gt82fIUUH2uwbsWW8SRafMIEGOc53/zmrz0KwIw/ePluxvB9H+Gjai6/x/cdefe 44BeuGdYTjgxFJMZKGW1I2YDg9DcUP9/1etrxy6ffKan7rXpWPIpbCKiYKTlbCGo5meP 4ASFFWxcVEn1WNdeGiOy21KkfxYe7AOeVkRp0DqhSJJwO0fgqHsax/bfRPcwI7mIPObZ 4rf4mFKI+7DEgkqJEanMkyHHIDkhrFLRNZmAJMSP387kzQPKxPGKQCsRPTL8EumOMyru quzA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAX/6DYMQ6/cTFBJcP27FkPsocxUqwVlifODYhsWjNZ4cMY99CZh lwn5j+yI/5W9LNwwV1U7TfGCOhRtv1ZFA/o/7rQDqA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyOMlCzpQOyBDu5sU8pRefpZO+Ou7H8Rt8LZIG5aoPjLYVOQxAdOcrUg+lfYzAnrKvRihfM/fUizVyaPyJdIcU= X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:15d0:: with SMTP id o16mr29242623qkm.106.1575932167906; Mon, 09 Dec 2019 14:56:07 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <17421_1575566127_5DE93B2F_17421_93_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D1A3DA@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: <17421_1575566127_5DE93B2F_17421_93_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D1A3DA@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> From: Warren Kumari Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2019 17:55:31 -0500 Message-ID: To: Bruno Decraene Cc: SPRING WG List , "6man@ietf.org" <6man@ietf.org>, draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2019 22:56:13 -0000 On Thu, Dec 5, 2019 at 12:15 PM wrote: > > Hello SPRING, > > > > This email starts a two weeks Working Group Last Call on draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming [1]. > > > > Please read this document if you haven't read the most recent version, and send your comments to the SPRING WG list, no later than December 20. > > I will happily admit that I haven't been following the discussions, so apologies in advance - I'm guessing I'm missing something really obvious, so please point me at other documents / email threads where this has already been answered... RFC5095 deprecated IPv6 RH0 due to some serious security issues - it was possible for an attacker to send traffic containing "instructions" to make a packet ping-pong between two interfaces, steer it down specific links, etc. It feels to me like this re-introduces similar (and potentially more scary) issues -- what's to stop an attacker spoofing traffic containing a bunch of SIDs which decapsulate, push a packet into another FIB, End.DT2M, etc? I went to look in the Security Considerations section, but, well, the document doesn't seem to have one?... The word Security appears 3 times in the document - one in the section title ("7. Basic security for intra-domain deployment"), once in the Index, and once simply punting the reader to Section 5.1 of the SRH document ("Future documents will detail inter-domain security mechanisms for SRv6 "). Expecting *everyone* who deploys this to perfectly apply filters which blocks ingress traffic everywhere where a packet could enter a domain feels like an accident just waiting to happen Again, I'm guessing that I'm missing something obvious, and that the entire security isn't premised on that - please point me to where this is addressed. "With great power comes great responsibility" -- sudo, via Peter Parker. W > > You may copy the 6MAN WG for IPv6 related comment, but consider not duplicating emails on the 6MAN mailing list for the comments which are only spring specifics. > > > > If you are raising a point which you expect will be specifically debated on the mailing list, consider using a specific email/thread for this point. > > This may help avoiding that the thread become specific to this point and that other points get forgotten (or that the thread get converted into parallel independent discussions) > > > > Thank you, > > Bruno > > > > [1] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-05 > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ > > Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc > pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler > a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, > Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci. > > This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged information that may be protected by law; > they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. > If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this message and its attachments. > As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been modified, changed or falsified. > Thank you. > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- -- I don't think the execution is relevant when it was obviously a bad idea in the first place. 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[111.69.147.228]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 203sm656322pfy.185.2019.12.09.17.11.04 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 09 Dec 2019 17:11:06 -0800 (PST) To: Warren Kumari , Bruno Decraene Cc: SPRING WG List , draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming References: <17421_1575566127_5DE93B2F_17421_93_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D1A3DA@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> From: Brian E Carpenter Message-ID: <97420d88-ee52-17dc-eeaa-ce7653fca48e@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2019 14:11:03 +1300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2019 01:11:10 -0000 > I went to look in the Security Considerations section, but, well, the > document doesn't seem to have one?... So why on earth is this document in WGLC? It cannot possibly be sent to the IESG without that section. (And "7. Basic security ..." seems very unlikely to pass muster even if renamed.) Regards Brian On 10-Dec-19 11:55, Warren Kumari wrote: > > > On Thu, Dec 5, 2019 at 12:15 PM wrote: >> >> Hello SPRING, >> >> >> >> This email starts a two weeks Working Group Last Call on draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming [1]. >> >> >> >> Please read this document if you haven't read the most recent version, and send your comments to the SPRING WG list, no later than December 20. >> >> > > I will happily admit that I haven't been following the discussions, so > apologies in advance - I'm guessing I'm missing something really > obvious, so please point me at other documents / email threads where > this has already been answered... > > RFC5095 deprecated IPv6 RH0 due to some serious security issues - it > was possible for an attacker to send traffic containing "instructions" > to make a packet ping-pong between two interfaces, steer it down > specific links, etc. > > It feels to me like this re-introduces similar (and potentially more > scary) issues -- what's to stop an attacker spoofing traffic > containing a bunch of SIDs which decapsulate, push a packet into > another FIB, End.DT2M, etc? > > I went to look in the Security Considerations section, but, well, the > document doesn't seem to have one?... > The word Security appears 3 times in the document - one in the section > title ("7. Basic security for intra-domain deployment"), once in the > Index, and once simply punting the reader to Section 5.1 of the SRH > document ("Future documents will detail inter-domain security > mechanisms for > SRv6 "). > > Expecting *everyone* who deploys this to perfectly apply filters which > blocks ingress traffic everywhere where a packet could enter a domain > feels like an accident just waiting to happen > Again, I'm guessing that I'm missing something obvious, and that the > entire security isn't premised on that - please point me to where this > is addressed. > > "With great power comes great responsibility" > -- sudo, via Peter Parker. > > W > >> >> You may copy the 6MAN WG for IPv6 related comment, but consider not duplicating emails on the 6MAN mailing list for the comments which are only spring specifics. >> >> >> >> If you are raising a point which you expect will be specifically debated on the mailing list, consider using a specific email/thread for this point. >> >> This may help avoiding that the thread become specific to this point and that other points get forgotten (or that the thread get converted into parallel independent discussions) >> >> >> >> Thank you, >> >> Bruno >> >> >> >> [1] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-05 >> >> >> >> >> >> _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ >> >> Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc >> pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler >> a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, >> Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci. >> >> This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged information that may be protected by law; >> they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. >> If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this message and its attachments. >> As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been modified, changed or falsified. >> Thank you. >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> IETF IPv6 working group mailing list >> ipv6@ietf.org >> Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > From nobody Mon Dec 9 22:15:32 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F03B012006E for ; Mon, 9 Dec 2019 22:15:30 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.124 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.124 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD2=0.874, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable body { line-height: 1.5; }blockquote { margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom:= 0px; margin-left: 0.5em; }p { margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; }body {= font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =E5=BE=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B=85=E9=BB=91; colo= r: rgb(0, 0, 0); line-height: 1.5; }body { font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: = =E5=BE=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B=85=E9=BB=91; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); line-height: 1.5= ; }=0A=
Why not modified the text first and then went to WGLC? I = don't think this is the proper way to respect the comments and suggestions = from the community. Time of all of us is valuable. Why do we have to repeat= the quesiton again and again resulting no change in the draft? BTW I don't= think this is an editorial comment either.
=0A=

Zhenqiang Li
=0A=
li_zhenqiang@hotmail.com
=0A=
 
Date: 2019-12-09&n= bsp;23:18
Subject: Re= : [spring] PHP - Deep Listening (was: RE: Separating issues)
=0A=
=0A=

Zhenqiang Li,

=0A=

 

=0A=

You asked a technical question (https://mailarchive.= ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/o7uJ5BiHY9WKhwL69PwbSVrzw-Q)=0A= on whether= the Next Header value should be updated as part of the PSP processing.

=0A=

I replied to it in here:=0A= https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/_Z5W2XMeuwhV9p6g= SYPWxMobXHg

=0A=

 

=0A=

Don=E2=80=99t worry, I will include it as part of the next editori= al update.

=0A=

 

=0A=

Regards,

=0A=

Pablo.=0A=

=0A=

 

=0A=
=0A=

From:=0A= spri= ng <spring-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of "li_zhenqiang@hotmail.= com" <li_zhenqiang@hotmail.com>
=0A= Date: Monday, 9 December 2019 at 08:53
=0A= To: Ron Bonica <rbonica=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>, Sures= h Krishnan <Suresh@kaloom.com>, "spring@ietf.org" <sprin= g@ietf.org>
=0A= Cc: Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com>, Bob Hinde= n <bob.hinden@gmail.com>, Ole Troan <otroan@employees.org>, San= der Steffann <sander@steffann.nl>, Fernando Gont <fgont@si6network= s.com>, Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
=0A= Subject: Re: [spring] PHP - Deep Listening (was: RE: Separating issu= es)

=0A=
=0A=
=0A=

 

= =0A=
=0A=
=0A=

I pointed out this in <= /span>https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/o7uJ5BiHY9WKhwL69= PwbSVrzw-Q and= =0A= our dear editor Pablo admitted NH should be updated. However, I don't know= why the text in version 5 is not updated accordingly till it goes to WGLC.= Comments should be accommodated in the document not merely noted in the li= st. 

=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
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= =0A=
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=0A= = ------=_001_NextPart386674025571_=------ From nobody Tue Dec 10 01:34:04 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B709120870 for ; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 01:34:02 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IzgBTJaSNDuv for ; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 01:33:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from esmtp-1.proxad.net (esmtp-1.proxad.net [213.36.6.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FB19120837 for ; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 01:33:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by esmtp-1.proxad.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33176AA2478; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 10:33:58 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at proxad.net Received: from esmtp-1.proxad.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (esmtp-b23-1.proxad.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LWoqTjHBF5kM; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 10:33:56 +0100 (CET) Received: from zstore-3.mgt.proxad.net (unknown [172.18.94.10]) by esmtp-1.proxad.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAF1DAA241B; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 10:33:53 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2019 10:33:53 +0100 (CET) From: =?utf-8?Q?S=C3=A9bastien?= Parisot To: =?utf-8?B?5p2+5baL6IGh?= , "Zafar Ali, zali" Cc: SPRING WG List Message-ID: <1072140828.168371285.1575970433765.JavaMail.zimbra@free-mobile.fr> In-Reply-To: <07280F00-A45B-45D3-8C75-5200A5512AAF@cisco.com> References: <2023349138.168022391.1575911635350.JavaMail.zimbra@free-mobile.fr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Zimbra 8.8.12_GA_3803 (ZimbraWebClient - FF68 (Linux)/8.8.12_GA_3794) Thread-Topic: SPRING SRv6 Deployment Status draft Thread-Index: AQHVrFjPingkhBaNfka4+tIlxa7H3mkyt1j+pGhFzgAu63KAVg== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] SPRING SRv6 Deployment Status draft X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2019 09:34:02 -0000 Hi Satoru, Zafar, I would like to provide an update to SRv6 deployment in Iliad's nationwide = network in Italy. As of the end of 2019, the SRv6 network consists of: - 1000 Cisco NCS 5500 routers - 1800 Iliad's Nodeboxes - The network services 4.5 million mobile subscribers (as of Q3 2019) - The network is carrying 300 Gbps of commercial traffic at peak hours - It is expected to grow to more than 4000 Nodeboxes in 2020. The following SRv6 features have been deployed: - A Segment Routing Header based data plane - End (PSP), End.X (PSP), End.DT4, T.Encaps.Red, T.Insert.Red functions - BGP VPN SRv6 extensions - ISIS SRv6 extensions - SRH-based Topology Independent (TI-LFA) Fast Reroute mechanisms - Support for ping and traceroute Can you please update the SRv6 deployment draft accordingly? Thanks, S=C3=A9bastien ----- Mail original ----- > De: "Zafar Ali, zali" > =C3=80: "Tadas Planciunas" , "SPRING WG List" , "=E6=9D=BE=E5=B6=8B=E8=81=A1" > > Cc: "Jonas Simanavicius" , "Pablo Camarillo, pcamaril= " , "Zafar Ali, zali" > > Envoy=C3=A9: Vendredi 6 D=C3=A9cembre 2019 20:16:20 > Objet: Re: [spring] SPRING SRv6 Deployment Status draft > Hi Tadas , >=20 > Many thanks for sharing the SRv6 deployment in a nationwide backbone netw= ork! >=20 > It will be our pleasure to include the text provided by you in the next r= evision > of the SRv6 deployment draft. >=20 > We can publish it during the next week. >=20 > Have a great weekend! >=20 > Thanks >=20 > Regards =E2=80=A6 Zafar >=20 > From: Tadas Planciunas > Date: Friday, December 6, 2019 at 2:07 AM > To: "spring@ietf.org" , "satoru.matsushima@g.softbank.co= .jp" > , "Zafar Ali (zali)" > Cc: Jonas Simanavicius , "Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)" > > Subject: [spring] SPRING SRv6 Deployment Status draft >=20 > Hi Zefar, Satoru, >=20 > In the next draft of [ > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-matsushima-spring-srv6-deployment-= status/ > | > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-matsushima-spring-srv6-deployment-= status/ > ] , we'd like to be added to the section =E2=80=9C2. Deployment Status=E2= =80=9D as we have > significant progress on our SRv6 deployment: >=20 > NOIA Network ( [ https://noia.network/ | https://noia.network ] ) >=20 > NOIA Network is Internet Technology company creating a cutting-edge SRv6 = stack > implementation and backbone for managing private and distributed mesh net= works. >=20 > Our software deployment consists of Orchestration, Analytics, Agent, Cont= roller, > Business Intelligence (AI) and several product Interfaces to access the > network. >=20 > Project whitepaper and tokenomics model can be found here: [ > https://noia.network/programmable-internet-whitepaper | > https://noia.network/programmable-internet-whitepaper ] and [ > https://noia.network/tokenomics-whitepaper | > https://noia.network/tokenomics-whitepaper ] >=20 > NOIA Network have deployed a nationwide SRv6 network backbone. The SRv6 b= ackbone > is based on white box or cloud routers with FD.io VPP or Linux srext modu= le > installed. >=20 > The following SRv6 features have been deployed: >=20 > * A Segment Routing Header [I-D.ietf-6man-segment-routing-header] base= d data > plane. > * END , END.X, END.DT4, End.DT6 functions as per > [I-D.filsfils-spring-srv6-network-programming]. > * iOAM Proof of Transit and Trace options as per [I-D.ietf-ippm-ioam-d= ata]. > * BFD for Multihop Paths as per [I-D.ietf-bfd-multihop]. > * Topology Independent (TI-LFA) Fast Reroute mechanisms leveraging > * SRv6 for the O(50msec) protection against node and link, as describe= d in > [I-D.ietf-rtgwg-segment-routing-ti-lfa]. >=20 > Thank you. >=20 > -- >=20 > Pagarbiai / Regards >=20 > IT Manager, Dev Lead @ NOIA Network >=20 > +370 614 68669 >=20 > [ https://noia.network/ | https://noia.network/ ] From nobody Tue Dec 10 03:14:09 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA9C612010D for ; 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Tue, 10 Dec 2019 11:13:58 +0000 From: Alexander Vainshtein To: "spring@ietf.org" CC: Michael Gorokhovsky , Sheetal Jangeed , Madhav Purohit , Abhijit Gokaraju , Dmitry Valdman Thread-Topic: A question regarding Section 3.2 of RFC 8402 Thread-Index: AdWvR90JFVFlVi/cQa2YeNQhog9JBQ== Importance: high X-Priority: 1 Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2019 11:13:58 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [147.234.241.1] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-ht: Tenant x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 53b88d67-68ab-4954-7a4f-08d77d620d7d x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: AM0PR03MB5489: x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:10000; x-forefront-prvs: 02475B2A01 x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(39860400002)(346002)(376002)(366004)(396003)(136003)(189003)(199004)(51874003)(53754006)(76116006)(6506007)(6916009)(186003)(66946007)(26005)(4326008)(5660300002)(316002)(52536014)(7696005)(86362001)(66446008)(66556008)(71200400001)(478600001)(9686003)(2906002)(64756008)(8936002)(54906003)(55016002)(81156014)(81166006)(107886003)(66574012)(66476007)(8676002)(33656002); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:AM0PR03MB5489; H:AM0PR03MB3828.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:1; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: ecitele.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: jCqBpDsJ2/4AD3/yF9JlitFouynrWxYH1TVoD9F8Hy+8mLQIeW+RPM3aBJPvp4td/4l6UBdGdhNG9LycHmkpXZrxkgY/TGy3Jj/h/nDdHquNQYj8b0DYy/+7SRLhEE0fTXLavTVjdkf1AjelB0ZtX/Sop1+3ilKGbot/F6CG07SCOFmR/fvLmxIoSzK3K/LXI9ou/40j4hUh8n1CbDbuhhNYtYt744B+T4Mkudwkg8Q7U4yweB/+durrM/af88bnxUGIPDI9ZdxPaXU1QCHF5/lupMwR7B9frfIJLJWYXvSzVvAJQ+roqRzNPN66llFANGl4cLGFFzDKLrlY56WG1OlzOJxseXpoNozfFdrBxoBw3mNwBCDO0NE8mujV7zrndQnUmMRC3iZZ4x/CJNett2aFLHDbLz8shlrv8M6XOBrjYbT7you4pZYjylRFDPGKC0RHC4fQbXecGQOOCJNGjDohR/fSZ7vHi8QQShXTZ0YvS6vP5uX9qWPJ0Ply/KS+riV+oHVvfNEvSWvN7n6W1hHvznRIznbzu3dSk6+iqR1MbqYdMFVt5S98FbJqsfjN Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_AM0PR03MB3828E82BA287730AD51947659D5B0AM0PR03MB3828eurp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: ecitele.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 53b88d67-68ab-4954-7a4f-08d77d620d7d X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 10 Dec 2019 11:13:58.1649 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 2c514a61-08de-4519-b4c0-921fef62c42a X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: +j99aZo61CXO1Bgpo4N2X3L1EpKR72R53N89pAjSZRUN6L5LAa8FLkJO+dXZnU4KNaTyCkNDlq64eZmFusaw8g== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM0PR03MB5489 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-DetectorID-Processed: d8d3a2b3-1594-4c39-92fb-b8312fe65a8a Archived-At: Subject: [spring] A question regarding Section 3.2 of RFC 8402 X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2019 11:14:09 -0000 --_000_AM0PR03MB3828E82BA287730AD51947659D5B0AM0PR03MB3828eurp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, My colleagues and I have a question pertaining to Section 3.2 of RFC 8402= . This section says= : An IGP Node-SID MUST NOT be associated with a prefix that is owned by more than one router within the same routing domain. The requirement itself is well understood. However, neither RFC 8402 nor a= ny other SPRING document I have seen defines the expected behavior of SR-c= apable nodes if, due to misconfiguration, a certain prefix that is owned b= y multiple nodes in the SR domain is associated with the Node-SID in at le= ast one of them. There are several sub-scenarios of the misconfiguration problem above, e.g= .: * The prefix is owned by multiple nodes. One of these nodes advert= ises it as associated with the Node-SID, while the other owners do not ass= ociate it with any SID at all * The prefix is owned by multiple nodes. One of these nodes advert= ises it as associated with the Node-SID, while one (or more) of the other = nodes advertise it as associated with an IGP-Prefix SID but not as a Node-= SID * The prefix is owned by multiple nodes, and two (or more) of the= se nodes advertise it as associated with the Node-SID but with different i= ndices in the SRGB * The prefix is owned by multiple nodes, and two (or more) of the= se nodes advertise it as associated with the Node-SID with the same index = in the SRGB. Our experiments (admittedly incomplete) with SR-capable equipment from dif= ferent vendors have shown that: * None of the tested devices have reported this situation as an er= ror when they encounter some of the problematic scenarios * Different devices have demonstrated different forwarding behavio= r when they encounter some of the problematic scenarios. In some of these = scenarios the offending prefix would be associated with some SID and the r= esulting forwarding behavior installed. We think that it would be nice if the WG could define a minimal set of req= uirements for handling this kind of misconfiguration. These requirements s= hould include at least the following: * A device that encounters this kind of misconfiguration SHOULD re= port the problem to the network management layer * The prefix for which this kind of misconfiguration has been dete= cted SHOULD NOT be associated with any IGP Prefix-SID at all. There may be other possibilities, but we feel that RFC 8402 is underspecif= ied in this regard, We would highly appreciate your feedback. Regards, and lots of thanks in advance, Sasha (on behalf of the team). Office: +972-39266302 Cell: +972-549266302 Email: Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com __________________________________________________________________________= _ This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains inform= ation which is=20 CONFIDENTIAL and which may be proprietary to ECI Telecom. If you have rece= ived this=20 transmission in error, please inform us by e-mail, phone or fax, and then = delete the original=20 and all copies thereof. __________________________________________________________________________= _ --_000_AM0PR03MB3828E82BA287730AD51947659D5B0AM0PR03MB3828eurp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi all,

My colleagues and I have a question pertaining to &= nbsp;Section 3.2 of RFC 8402. This section says:

 

   An IGP Node-SID MUST NOT be ass= ociated with a prefix that is owned by

   more than one router within the= same routing domain.

 

The requirement itself is well understood. However,= neither RFC 8402 nor any other SPRING document I have seen defines the ex= pected behavior of SR-capable nodes if, due to misconfiguration, a certain= prefix that is owned by multiple nodes in the SR domain is associated with the Node-SID in at least one of them.=

 

There are several sub-scenarios of the misconfigura= tion problem above, e.g.:

·         The prefix is owne= d by multiple nodes. One of these nodes advertises it as associated with t= he Node-SID, while the other owners do not associate it with any SID at al= l

·         The prefix is owne= d by multiple nodes. One of these nodes advertises it as associated with t= he Node-SID, while one (or more) of the other nodes advertise it as associ= ated with an IGP-Prefix SID but not as a Node-SID

·         The prefix is owne= d by multiple nodes, and  two (or more) of these nodes advertise it a= s associated with the Node-SID but with different indices in the SRGB=

·         The prefix is owne= d by multiple nodes, and  two (or more) of these nodes advertise it a= s associated with the Node-SID with the same index in the SRGB.=

 

Our experiments (admittedly incomplete) with SR-cap= able equipment from different vendors have shown that:

·         None of the tested= devices have reported this situation as an error when they encounter some= of the problematic scenarios

·         Different devices = have demonstrated different forwarding behavior when they encounter some o= f the problematic scenarios. In some of these scenarios the offending pref= ix would be associated=20with some SID and the resulting forwarding behavior installed.

 

We think that it would be nice if the WG could defi= ne a minimal set of requirements for handling this kind of misconfiguratio= n. These requirements should include at least the following:

·         A device that enco= unters this kind of misconfiguration SHOULD report the problem to the netw= ork management layer

·         The prefix for whi= ch this kind of misconfiguration has been detected SHOULD NOT be associate= d with any IGP Prefix-SID at all.

 

There may be other possibilities, but we feel that = RFC 8402 is underspecified in this regard,

 

We would highly appreciate your feedback.

 

Regards, and lots of thanks in advance,<= /p>

Sasha (on behalf of the team).

 

Office: +972-39266302

Cell:      +972-549266= 302

Email:   Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com=

 


__________________________________________________________________________= _

This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains inform= ation which is
CONFIDENTIAL and which may be proprietary to ECI Telecom. If you have rece= ived this
transmission in error, please inform us by e-mail, phone or fax, and then = delete the original
and all copies thereof.
__________________________________________________________________________= _
--_000_AM0PR03MB3828E82BA287730AD51947659D5B0AM0PR03MB3828eurp_-- From nobody Tue Dec 10 05:16:46 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA0ED12008A; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 05:16:44 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qI9v6tT32Lkp; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 05:16:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from relais-inet.orange.com (relais-inet.orange.com [80.12.70.34]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D9BDE120098; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 05:16:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from opfednr05.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.69]) by opfednr24.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 47XLDl3hv4z208w; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 14:16:39 +0100 (CET) Received: from Exchangemail-eme6.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.13.73]) by opfednr05.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 47XLDl2n1LzyQ7; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 14:16:39 +0100 (CET) Received: from OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::b846:2467:1591:5d9d]) by OPEXCAUBM23.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0468.000; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 14:16:39 +0100 From: To: Fernando Gont CC: Ron Bonica , SPRING WG , "int-ads@ietf.org" , Andrew Alston , rtg-ads , Bob Hinden , Brian E Carpenter , "Ole Troan" , Suresh Krishnan , "Robert Raszuk" Thread-Topic: [spring] Penultimate Segment Popping and RFC8200 (Was Re: We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping)) Thread-Index: AQHVrM69NORQVRbL0kC2c8q9tirIQqeuthaAgAAFsYCAACVTgIAAEDEAgABon4CAA/8mwA== Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2019 13:16:38 +0000 Message-ID: <27448_1575983799_5DEF9AB7_27448_30_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D245CD@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <4255AD3B-379C-45BF-96E1-D3D9141A684F@liquidtelecom.com> <3bce7b18-ea45-d29f-5dfb-1d3258b07d1e@si6networks.com> <80A78F48-9802-4DA9-B264-1A8920C1DDF9@kaloom.com> <885c9ad6-ddd2-392a-7e9f-722509753e2d@si6networks.com> In-Reply-To: <885c9ad6-ddd2-392a-7e9f-722509753e2d@si6networks.com> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.245] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Penultimate Segment Popping and RFC8200 (Was Re: We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping)) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2019 13:16:45 -0000 RmVybmFuZG8sDQoNCj4gRnJvbTogc3ByaW5nIFttYWlsdG86c3ByaW5nLWJvdW5jZXNAaWV0Zi5v cmddIE9uIEJlaGFsZiBPZiBGZXJuYW5kbyBHb250DQo+IFNlbnQ6IFN1bmRheSwgRGVjZW1iZXIg OCwgMjAxOSAxOjU1IEFNDQo+IA0KPiBPbiA3LzEyLzE5IDE1OjQwLCBSb2JlcnQgUmFzenVrIHdy b3RlOg0KPiA+IEhpIEZlcm5hbmRvLA0KPiA+ICANCj4gPiANCj4gPiAgICAgVGhlIG9ubGluZSBw b3NzaWJsZSBpbnN0YW50aWF0aW9uIG9mICJEZXN0aW5hdGlvbiBBZGRyZXNzIiBhcyBpbiBSRkM4 MjAwDQo+ID4gICAgIGlzIHRoZSBmaW5hbCBkZXN0aW5hdGlvbiBvZiB0aGUgcGFja2V0Lg0KPiA+ IA0KPiA+IA0KPiA+IE5vLiBUaGF0IGlzIGluY29ycmVjdC4gDQo+ID4gDQo+ID4gSGludDogUGxl YXNlIHJlYWQgY2FyZWZ1bGx5IFJGQzI0NzMuIA0KPiANCj4gSWYgeW91IHRoaW5rIGEgZG9jdW1l bnQgb24gdHVubmVscyBydWxlcyBob3cgSVB2NiBvcGVyYXRlcywgYW5kIGl0cw0KPiBlbmQtdG8t 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X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UMwsiG42nKt7; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 09:17:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from relais-inet.orange.com (relais-inet.orange.com [80.12.70.34]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C52701209FB; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 09:17:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from opfednr03.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.67]) by opfednr23.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 47XRZ76vMQz5wpl; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 18:17:03 +0100 (CET) Received: from Exchangemail-eme6.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.13.107]) by opfednr03.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 47XRZ75Lk9zDq7h; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 18:17:03 +0100 (CET) Received: from OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::b846:2467:1591:5d9d]) by OPEXCAUBM8F.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0468.000; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 18:17:03 +0100 From: To: Fernando Gont CC: Ron Bonica , "spring@ietf.org" , "6man@ietf.org" <6man@ietf.org>, draft-voyer-6man-extension-header-insertion , li zhenqiang , draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming , Suresh Krishnan Thread-Topic: [spring] Question about SRv6 Insert function Thread-Index: AQHVrtLjkGbL/Opq30uxJSVFK8mZ+aezmjmg Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2019 17:17:03 +0000 Message-ID: <1824_1575998223_5DEFD30F_1824_112_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D24EBD@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <3e31873a-278a-2154-0e71-4d820bba323d@gont.com.ar> <4012D854-2F10-4476-951D-FFFE73C5083C@gmail.com> <28214_1567694772_5D711FB4_28214_238_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48BFA9F3@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <129bbb32-0f14-b799-430c-8f76fb6b1279@gont.com.ar> In-Reply-To: <129bbb32-0f14-b799-430c-8f76fb6b1279@gont.com.ar> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.245] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Question about SRv6 Insert function X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2019 17:17:13 -0000 RmVybmFuZG8sDQoNCj4gRnJvbTogRmVybmFuZG8gR29udCBbbWFpbHRvOmZlcm5hbmRvQGdvbnQu Y29tLmFyXSANCj4gU2VudDogTW9uZGF5LCBEZWNlbWJlciA5LCAyMDE5IDk6NTQgUE0NCj4gDQo+ 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IGV0IHNlcyBwaWVjZXMgam9pbnRlcyBwZXV2ZW50IGNvbnRlbmlyIGRlcyBpbmZvcm1hdGlvbnMg Y29uZmlkZW50aWVsbGVzIG91IHByaXZpbGVnaWVlcyBldCBuZSBkb2l2ZW50IGRvbmMKcGFzIGV0 cmUgZGlmZnVzZXMsIGV4cGxvaXRlcyBvdSBjb3BpZXMgc2FucyBhdXRvcmlzYXRpb24uIFNpIHZv dXMgYXZleiByZWN1IGNlIG1lc3NhZ2UgcGFyIGVycmV1ciwgdmV1aWxsZXogbGUgc2lnbmFsZXIK YSBsJ2V4cGVkaXRldXIgZXQgbGUgZGV0cnVpcmUgYWluc2kgcXVlIGxlcyBwaWVjZXMgam9pbnRl cy4gTGVzIG1lc3NhZ2VzIGVsZWN0cm9uaXF1ZXMgZXRhbnQgc3VzY2VwdGlibGVzIGQnYWx0ZXJh dGlvbiwKT3JhbmdlIGRlY2xpbmUgdG91dGUgcmVzcG9uc2FiaWxpdGUgc2kgY2UgbWVzc2FnZSBh IGV0ZSBhbHRlcmUsIGRlZm9ybWUgb3UgZmFsc2lmaWUuIE1lcmNpLgoKVGhpcyBtZXNzYWdlIGFu ZCBpdHMgYXR0YWNobWVudHMgbWF5IGNvbnRhaW4gY29uZmlkZW50aWFsIG9yIHByaXZpbGVnZWQg aW5mb3JtYXRpb24gdGhhdCBtYXkgYmUgcHJvdGVjdGVkIGJ5IGxhdzsKdGhleSBzaG91bGQgbm90 IGJlIGRpc3RyaWJ1dGVkLCB1c2VkIG9yIGNvcGllZCB3aXRob3V0IGF1dGhvcmlzYXRpb24uCklm IHlvdSBoYXZlIHJlY2VpdmVkIHRoaXMgZW1haWwgaW4gZXJyb3IsIHBsZWFzZSBub3RpZnkgdGhl IHNlbmRlciBhbmQgZGVsZXRlIHRoaXMgbWVzc2FnZSBhbmQgaXRzIGF0dGFjaG1lbnRzLgpBcyBl bWFpbHMgbWF5IGJlIGFsdGVyZWQsIE9yYW5nZSBpcyBub3QgbGlhYmxlIGZvciBtZXNzYWdlcyB0 aGF0IGhhdmUgYmVlbiBtb2RpZmllZCwgY2hhbmdlZCBvciBmYWxzaWZpZWQuClRoYW5rIHlvdS4K Cg== From nobody Tue Dec 10 09:37:09 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D126B1200C1; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 09:37:06 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.597 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.597 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tRBHCEjOBkTb; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 09:37:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from relais-inet.orange.com (relais-inet.orange.com [80.12.70.36]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 89ED2120043; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 09:37:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from opfednr02.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.66]) by opfednr24.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 47XS1C2dGjz204H; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 18:37:03 +0100 (CET) Received: from Exchangemail-eme6.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.13.48]) by opfednr02.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 47XS1C1hZyz8sY1; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 18:37:03 +0100 (CET) Received: from OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::b846:2467:1591:5d9d]) by OPEXCAUBM32.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0468.000; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 18:37:03 +0100 From: To: draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming CC: 'SPRING WG List' Thread-Topic: WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming Thread-Index: AdWrjZKMyJw/FcG0Qj29O28HuDn7+wD8iGrw Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2019 17:37:02 +0000 Message-ID: <10627_1575999423_5DEFD7BF_10627_320_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D24F99@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <17421_1575566127_5DE93B2F_17421_93_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D1A3DA@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: <17421_1575566127_5DE93B2F_17421_93_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D1A3DA@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.245] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D24F99OPEXCAUBM43corp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2019 17:37:07 -0000 --_000_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D24F99OPEXCAUBM43corp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable [-6man as I believe this is spring specific] Hi Pablo, authors, < The T.Encaps behavior would describe the capability of node N to perform a T.Encaps behavior, specifically it would describe how many SIDs could be inserted by N without significant performance degradation." Could you please explicit what is meant by 'how many SIDs'? Especially for = .Red. Is this the number of SID in the SRH? Because for .Red, the number of SID in the SRH is N-1, with N been the numb= er of SIDs. (as the first SID is not included in the SRH). Any option works for me. I'm just asking for the behavior to be clear and i= nteroperable. Thank you, --Bruno From: ipv6 [mailto:ipv6-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of bruno.decraene@orang= e.com Sent: Thursday, December 5, 2019 6:15 PM To: 'SPRING WG List' Cc: 6man@ietf.org; draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming Subject: WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming Hello SPRING, This email starts a two weeks Working Group Last Call on draft-ietf-spring-= srv6-network-programming [1]. Please read this document if you haven't read the most recent version, and = send your comments to the SPRING WG list, no later than December 20. You may copy the 6MAN WG for IPv6 related comment, but consider not duplica= ting emails on the 6MAN mailing list for the comments which are only spring= specifics. If you are raising a point which you expect will be specifically debated on= the mailing list, consider using a specific email/thread for this point. This may help avoiding that the thread become specific to this point and th= at other points get forgotten (or that the thread get converted into parall= el independent discussions) Thank you, Bruno [1] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-= 05 ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el= ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been = modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el= ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been = modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. --_000_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D24F99OPEXCAUBM43corp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

[-6man as I believe this is spring specific]

 

Hi Pablo, authors,

 

« The<=
/span>

 &n= bsp; T.Encaps behavior would describe the c= apability of node N to perform

 &n= bsp; a T.Encaps behavior, specifically it w= ould describe how many SIDs

 &n= bsp; could be inserted by N without significant performance degradation.&= #8221;

 

 

Could you pleas= e explicit what is meant by ‘how many SIDs’? Especially for .Red.

Is this the num= ber of SID in the SRH?

Because for .Re= d, the number of SID in the SRH is N-1, with N been the number of SIDs. (as the first SID is not included in the SRH).

 

Any option work= s for me. I’m just asking for the behavior to be clear and interoperable.

 

Thank you,=

--Bruno

 

 

= From: ipv6 [mailto:ipv6-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of bruno.decraene@ora= nge.com
Sent: Thursday, December 5, 2019 6:15 PM
To: 'SPRING WG List'
Cc: 6man@ietf.org; draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming
Subject: WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming

 

Hello SPRING,
 
This email starts a two weeks Working Group Last Call on draf=
t-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming [1].
 
Please read this document if you haven't read the most recent=
 version, and send your comments to the SPRING WG list, no later than Decem=
ber 20.
 
You may copy the 6MAN WG for IPv6 related comment, but consid=
er not duplicating emails on the 6MAN mailing list for the comments which a=
re only spring specifics.
 
If you are raising a point which you expect will be specifica=
lly debated on the mailing list, consider using a specific email/thread for=
 this point.
This may help avoiding that the thread become specific to thi=
s point and that other points get forgotten (or that the thread get convert=
ed into parallel independent discussions)
 
Thank you,
Bruno
 
[1] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-=
srv6-network-programming-05
 

 

_________________________________________=
___________________________________________________________________________=
_____
 
Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent =
contenir des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent don=
c
pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sa=
ns autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signa=
ler
a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que l=
es pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alterati=
on,
Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce=
 message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci.
 
This message and its attachments may cont=
ain confidential or privileged information that may be protected by law;
they should not be distributed, used or c=
opied without authorisation.
If you have received this email in error,=
 please notify the sender and delete this message and its attachments.=

As emails may be altered, Orange is not l=
iable for messages that have been modified, changed or falsified.
Thank you.
______________________________________________________________________=
___________________________________________________

Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden=
tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu=
 ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el=
ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou =
falsifie. Merci.

This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf=
ormation that may be protected by law;
they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele=
te this message and its attachments.
As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been =
modified, changed or falsified.
Thank you.
--_000_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D24F99OPEXCAUBM43corp_-- From nobody Tue Dec 10 09:41:23 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9AB3812098B; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 09:41:17 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.597 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.597 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id i6XgVxBbgfqs; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 09:41:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from relais-inet.orange.com (relais-inet.orange.com [80.12.66.39]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2184C120999; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 09:41:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from opfedar02.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.4]) by opfedar27.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 47XS5z60lFz2yQ6; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 18:41:11 +0100 (CET) Received: from Exchangemail-eme6.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.13.23]) by opfedar02.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 47XS5z4vCkzCqkT; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 18:41:11 +0100 (CET) Received: from OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::b846:2467:1591:5d9d]) by OPEXCAUBM41.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::857d:4f67:b0a7:10d7%21]) with mapi id 14.03.0468.000; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 18:41:11 +0100 From: To: draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming CC: "6man@ietf.org" <6man@ietf.org>, 'SPRING WG List' Thread-Topic: WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming Thread-Index: AdWrjZKMyJw/FcG0Qj29O28HuDn7+wD8DNgg Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2019 17:41:11 +0000 Message-ID: <23508_1575999671_5DEFD8B7_23508_75_6_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D24FC3@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <17421_1575566127_5DE93B2F_17421_93_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D1A3DA@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: <17421_1575566127_5DE93B2F_17421_93_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D1A3DA@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.245] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D24FC3OPEXCAUBM43corp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2019 17:41:18 -0000 --_000_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D24FC3OPEXCAUBM43corp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Pablo, authors "4.13. End.B6.Encaps: Endpoint bound to an SRv6 policy w/ encaps" is clear that an IPv6 encapsulation is performed. e.g with the below text " S14. Push a new IPv6 header with its own SRH containing B" However, I find that "4.14. End.B6.Encaps.Red: [...] with reduced SRH" is = a little less clear on that. E.g., "This is an optimization of the End.B6.Encaps behavior." Looks good. " The new SRH is created as described in Section 4.1.1 of [I-D.ietf-6man-= segment-routing-header]." Is not that specific. Could you please explicitly add that an IPv6 outer he= ader is added ? " End.B6.Encaps.RED [...] with reduced SRH insertion SRv6 instantiation o= f a Binding SID" Does not looks good. Please remove any reference to "SRH insertion". "IPv6 encapsulation with an= SRH header" would be preferred. " 4.13. End.B6.Encaps: Endpoint bound to an SRv6 policy w/ encaps 20 4.14. End.B6.Encaps.Red: [...] with reduced SRH . . . . .= . . . 21 > May be OLD: End.B6.Encaps.Red: [...] with reduced SRH NEW: End.B6.Encaps.Red: End.B6.Encaps with reduced SRH (this does fit in a single line) Thank you, Best regards, --Bruno From: ipv6 [mailto:ipv6-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of bruno.decraene@orang= e.com Sent: Thursday, December 5, 2019 6:15 PM To: 'SPRING WG List' Cc: 6man@ietf.org; draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming Subject: WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming Hello SPRING, This email starts a two weeks Working Group Last Call on draft-ietf-spring-= srv6-network-programming [1]. Please read this document if you haven't read the most recent version, and = send your comments to the SPRING WG list, no later than December 20. You may copy the 6MAN WG for IPv6 related comment, but consider not duplica= ting emails on the 6MAN mailing list for the comments which are only spring= specifics. If you are raising a point which you expect will be specifically debated on= the mailing list, consider using a specific email/thread for this point. This may help avoiding that the thread become specific to this point and th= at other points get forgotten (or that the thread get converted into parall= el independent discussions) Thank you, Bruno [1] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-= 05 ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el= ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been = modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el= ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been = modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. --_000_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D24FC3OPEXCAUBM43corp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Pablo, authors

 

“4.13.  End.B6.Encaps: Endpoint bound to an SRv6 policy w/ encaps”

is clear that an IPv6 encapsulation is performed. e.g with the below text

“&= nbsp; S14.   Push a new = IPv6 header with its own SRH containing B”

 

However, I find that “4.14.&= nbsp; End.B6.Encaps.Red: [...] with reduced SRH” is a little less cl= ear on that. E.g.,

“<=
span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">This is an optimizati=
on of the End.B6.Encaps behavior.”

Looks good.

 

“<=
span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">   The new SRH is created as described in Sect=
ion 4.1.1 of [I-D.ietf-6man-segment-routing-header].”=

Is not that specific. Could you please explicitly add that an IPv6 outer header is added ?

 

“<=
span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">  End.B6.Encaps.RED  [...] with reduced SRH insertion SRv6 instantiation of a Bin=
ding SID”

Does not looks good.

Please remove any reference to “SRH insertion”. “IPv6 encapsulation with an SRH header” would be preferred.

 

“<=
span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">     4.13. End.B6.Encaps: Endpoint b=
ound to an SRv6 policy w/ encaps  20

 &n= bsp;   4.14. End.B6.Encaps.Red: [...] with reduced SRH . . . . . . . .  21 »=

 

May be

OLD: End.B6.Encaps.Red: [...] with redu= ced SRH<= o:p>

NEW: End.B6.Encaps.Red: End.B6.Encaps with reduced SRH

 

(this does fit in a single line)

 

Thank you,

Best regards,

--Bruno

 

 

 

 

From: ipv6 [mailto:ipv6-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of bruno.decraene@ora= nge.com
Sent: Thursday, December 5, 2019 6:15 PM
To: 'SPRING WG List'
Cc: 6man@ietf.org; draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming
Subject: WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming

 

Hello SPRING,
 
This email starts a two weeks Working Group Last Call on draf=
t-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming [1].
 
Please read this document if you haven't read the most recent=
 version, and send your comments to the SPRING WG list, no later than Decem=
ber 20.
 
You may copy the 6MAN WG for IPv6 related comment, but consid=
er not duplicating emails on the 6MAN mailing list for the comments which a=
re only spring specifics.
 
If you are raising a point which you expect will be specifica=
lly debated on the mailing list, consider using a specific email/thread for=
 this point.
This may help avoiding that the thread become specific to thi=
s point and that other points get forgotten (or that the thread get convert=
ed into parallel independent discussions)
 
Thank you,
Bruno
 
[1] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-=
srv6-network-programming-05
 

 

_________________________________________=
___________________________________________________________________________=
_____
 
Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent =
contenir des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent don=
c
pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sa=
ns autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signa=
ler
a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que l=
es pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alterati=
on,
Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce=
 message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci.
 
This message and its attachments may cont=
ain confidential or privileged information that may be protected by law;
they should not be distributed, used or c=
opied without authorisation.
If you have received this email in error,=
 please notify the sender and delete this message and its attachments.=

As emails may be altered, Orange is not l=
iable for messages that have been modified, changed or falsified.
Thank you.
______________________________________________________________________=
___________________________________________________

Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden=
tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu=
 ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el=
ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou =
falsifie. Merci.

This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf=
ormation that may be protected by law;
they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele=
te this message and its attachments.
As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been =
modified, changed or falsified.
Thank you.
--_000_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D24FC3OPEXCAUBM43corp_-- From nobody Tue Dec 10 10:03:40 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CBE4120964; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 10:03:38 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wmpUyWvXX4fp; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 10:03:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from fgont.go6lab.si (fgont.go6lab.si [91.239.96.14]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D27D11200DF; 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Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <27448_1575983799_5DEF9AB7_27448_30_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D245CD@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Penultimate Segment Popping and RFC8200 (Was Re: We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping)) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2019 18:03:38 -0000 On 10/12/19 08:16, bruno.decraene@orange.com wrote: > Fernando, > >> From: spring [mailto:spring-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Fernando >> Gont Sent: Sunday, December 8, 2019 1:55 AM >> >> On 7/12/19 15:40, Robert Raszuk wrote: >>> Hi Fernando, >>> >>> >>> The online possible instantiation of "Destination Address" as in >>> RFC8200 is the final destination of the packet. >>> >>> >>> No. That is incorrect. >>> >>> Hint: Please read carefully RFC2473. >> >> If you think a document on tunnels rules how IPv6 operates, and >> its end-to-endianness, then you have a huge problem reading specs. >> >> So I will not enter that game, because it would be accepting to be >> mocked at. >> >> I'll wait for a few days for our INT AD's response (Suresh), a >> response from the spring chairs (if any), and a response from the >> RTG AD(s). > > I'm not sure what response to what question you expect from spring > chairs. My understanding is that this is a clear objection to the document "as is", and that since this document is violating an existing spec, it would be unfeasible to declare consensus to move the document forward "as is". > draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming is under WG LC: this is > the time for everyone to comment on the document and hopefully > improve it. At this stage, I'd rather not influence the discussion. My question to you as a chair is: Can this wg request publication of the document knowing that it violates a specification that is not under the control of this wg, and that there is no consensus to change that spec at the corresponding wg (6man)? >>> From: spring [mailto:spring-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of >>> Fernando Gont Sent: Saturday, December 7, 2019 6:43 PM The online >>> possible instantiation of "Destination Address" as in RFC8200 is >>> the final destination of the packet. > > It appears to me that, at minimum, multiple opinions have been > expressed on this point, including from Suresh. At the end of the day, it is fine for Suresh to have his opinion. HOwever, 1) His mandate will eventually end, so he obviously cannot make commitments past the date he mandate ends. 2) MOre importantly, this document is being produced by spring, under the RTG area. So while the INT ADs can make up their minds how they would block the document if it eventually gets to them, ultimately it's the spring chairs and RTG AD's call what this wg ships and requests publication of. > So, assuming that by > "online" you meant "only", the statement "only possible" seems > excessive to me. But I have noted your reading of RFC8200 and your > objection, which I believe concern the PSP and USP 'flavors' sections > 4.16.1 and 4.16.2 > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-05#section-4.16 Thanks, -- Fernando Gont SI6 Networks e-mail: fgont@si6networks.com PGP Fingerprint: 6666 31C6 D484 63B2 8FB1 E3C4 AE25 0D55 1D4E 7492 From nobody Tue Dec 10 10:18:10 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D063120A19; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 10:18:08 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vQNuSW5oXP_d; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 10:18:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from relais-inet.orange.com (relais-inet.orange.com [80.12.66.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8428B12081F; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 10:18:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from opfedar03.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.5]) by opfedar27.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 47XSwX4lQlz2yRF; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 19:18:04 +0100 (CET) Received: from Exchangemail-eme6.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.13.89]) by opfedar03.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 47XSwX34pTzCqkR; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 19:18:04 +0100 (CET) Received: from OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::b846:2467:1591:5d9d]) by OPEXCAUBM44.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0468.000; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 19:18:04 +0100 From: To: Fernando Gont , 'SPRING WG List' CC: "6man@ietf.org" <6man@ietf.org>, draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming Thread-Topic: WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming Thread-Index: AQHVrs+7THFz1W8ai0ypYtdne1Nt/6ezqWJA Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2019 18:18:03 +0000 Message-ID: <29345_1576001884_5DEFE15C_29345_229_5_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D250B7@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <17421_1575566127_5DE93B2F_17421_93_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D1A3DA@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <6c674995-8cc7-c024-4181-60b160910f75@si6networks.com> In-Reply-To: <6c674995-8cc7-c024-4181-60b160910f75@si6networks.com> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.245] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2019 18:18:08 -0000 Fernando, Thank you for spelling out your comment, plus on the WGLC thread. More in-line > Bruno, >=20 > On 5/12/19 12:15, bruno.decraene@orange.com wrote: > [....]> > > This email starts a two weeks Working Group Last Call on > > draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming [1]. > >=20 > >=20=20 > >=20 > > Please read this document if you haven't read the most recent version, > > and send your comments to the SPRING WG list, no later than December 20. > >=20 > >=20=20 > >=20 > > You may copy the 6MAN WG for IPv6 related comment, but consider not > > duplicating emails on the 6MAN mailing list for the comments which are > > only spring specifics. > >=20 > >=20=20 > >=20 > > If you are raising a point which you expect will be specifically debated > > on the mailing list, consider using a specific email/thread for this po= int. > >=20 > > This may help avoiding that the thread become specific to this point and > > that other points get forgotten (or that the thread get converted into > > parallel independent discussions) >=20 > Penultimate Segment Popping describes/specifies the removal of a SRH at > a place other than the final destination of the packet. >=20 > Such behavior violates RFC8200, which specifies: >=20 > Extension headers (except for the Hop-by-Hop Options header) are not > processed, inserted, or deleted by any node along a packet's delivery > path, until the packet reaches the node (or each of the set of nodes, > in the case of multicast) identified in the Destination Address field > of the IPv6 header. >=20 > Note, of course, that the reference of "Destination Address" in RFC8200 > is clearly the final destination of the packet -- for instance, RFC8200 I hear and can understand your reading of RFC8200. At minimum, I think that we can agree that there is another reading, as exp= ressed by other WG participants, and hence I disagree with "of course". Personally, I understand "Destination Address" as "Destination Address fiel= d of the IPv6 header." as indicated explicitly in the text quoted. I'm fine with having this clarified with 6MAND chairs and AD. That been sai= d, the Internet AD would have an opportunity to DISCUSS this. > does not specify any routing header type, and hence the meaning is > unambiguous (there's no destination other than the final destination of > the packet). >=20 > This is of course in line with IPv6 being and end-to-end protocol, and > crucial for other related mechanisms to work as expected (such as IPsec > AH). Please also check: draft-smith-6man-in-flight-eh-insertion-harmful. >=20 > So, in order to proceed with the document, there are multiple options > forward: >=20 > 1) Just remove the corresponding text/behavior That is indeed one option. But as of today, this is not my assumption. =20 > 2) Implement a similar mechanism in an RFC8200-compliant manner (e.g., > re-encap) SRH insert is out of scope of this specification. So yes, IPv6 encaps is us= ed. We are talking SRH removal. I'm assuming that you are referring to PSP. My = understanding is that this function (PSP) is to distribute the (forwarding = plane) load between the PSP and the USP. In a way similar to MPLS PHP. But = in all cases, this is not about SRH insertion. =20 > 3) Do the necessary standards work to update RFC8200, such that it > allows this sort of behavior, and only ship the network-programming > draft for publication when at least 6man has consensus to proceed on > that path. Not the preferred path as of today. =20 > P.S.: I will go through the document once again... but the same > reasoning should be applied to any EH-insertion/removal at a place other > than the source of the packet or its final destination. It looks to me that SRH insertion and SRH removal are to be treated differe= ntly. The difference been that for SRH insertion, in general the node doing= insertion is any node on the path hence not specifically a node ' identifi= ed in the Destination Address field of the IPv6 header." While for and End*= PSP behavior, the node doing SRH removal is a node '' identified in the De= stination Address field of the IPv6 header.". Or at minimum this seems a po= ssible interpretation of RFC 8200. In all cases, while this is sorted out, let's treat both as different. Thank you, --Bruno =20 > Thanks, > --=20 > Fernando Gont > SI6 Networks > e-mail: fgont@si6networks.com > PGP Fingerprint: 6666 31C6 D484 63B2 8FB1 E3C4 AE25 0D55 1D4E 7492 >=20 >=20 >=20 > ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el= ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been = modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. From nobody Tue Dec 10 11:36:41 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BF16120A1C; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 11:36:34 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BQGQkdsiYzqb; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 11:36:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pj1-x1035.google.com (mail-pj1-x1035.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::1035]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 081DF1209D4; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 11:36:32 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pj1-x1035.google.com with SMTP id r11so7778993pjp.12; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 11:36:32 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=tHcnVBj+XiwJzOYA7FGmkBQ7pBOwjEoT4TYLGEdWkhU=; b=O/S4l9pDT7AqfqTvLugxZrzm7UegqgXRmOyORG2bWuVQorlQfyAK+aNpvhl3On5utv ks0xB1dsEuIm6tK0mw9VApNHUA7M1Y5/cFEWdDCk5wXaTrWSIvaXeH7d9lg0vJIDyB8r zP9pjRLGzRD9hJw5EokaOcdkTqCsbbOwxsUhBJVPXYOO0bZWbdCJi8PEIg64tjxWTNah UCY/uMczPJqJkY14piuh8DrpXboMSqAxfys0MMm190XSRrbdfKzxBDzUfmJHcRb/MZmE AxHVtxl4rhg4nwEymKxT6kurC8YZ4srp9vbjLWp/xrSK7I+osT5sKE0cm3vOmlDM4Srz MIyQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=tHcnVBj+XiwJzOYA7FGmkBQ7pBOwjEoT4TYLGEdWkhU=; b=nrqyoTCpvCzHO6dSllg8/MbsMfIAotWVL0fdzIJUVk3RYmxNUDKOLO88EPH3VsN2tf d+UwlMG9gcbprR4+gxSuKIDVKQUPwJXPALKn7GU9nGYgcVOe/paoYaeqLVTm5Lg1jrRB LPk9zJfKRL6L+nTodLcXt9ooInVle82Nib0S6Rlo9KuAFQvLHWzXnr6XYaw3++iHXmQv x7Zbi1JOHSdjQOnHCMr3Yo8q2ZQne/Krzb/QMPS14B/QQs3kfnCTfnp7oSeFHV8CYCbu 8ZMlhYxaU/eZiymxDriDR+/YsozKCLi2Xn+/FTN+YrrGZ3dshC7FoAlWdfB2e++z9mbd PKgA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUV7SInipORzxpkOLT2UZwMmoHs/SvBV6PAyaNmxxu35rs2l4Tc 5c4s1XBhBqGDx1GviNQOjS4gp5EI X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyfB6UaXOBk7StGnp3cHpyw7GrrNS4+KIRX4vmaqxWByOopsl3AMC7fT+NtOjgB6uSSxdR+zQ== X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:ff12:: with SMTP id ce18mr7266634pjb.117.1576006591052; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 11:36:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.178.30] (228.147.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz. [111.69.147.228]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id y76sm4660065pfc.87.2019.12.10.11.36.27 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 10 Dec 2019 11:36:30 -0800 (PST) To: bruno.decraene@orange.com, Fernando Gont Cc: Ron Bonica , "spring@ietf.org" , "6man@ietf.org" <6man@ietf.org>, Suresh Krishnan , draft-voyer-6man-extension-header-insertion , draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming References: <3e31873a-278a-2154-0e71-4d820bba323d@gont.com.ar> <4012D854-2F10-4476-951D-FFFE73C5083C@gmail.com> <28214_1567694772_5D711FB4_28214_238_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48BFA9F3@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <129bbb32-0f14-b799-430c-8f76fb6b1279@gont.com.ar> <1824_1575998223_5DEFD30F_1824_112_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D24EBD@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> From: Brian E Carpenter Message-ID: <4384c08a-65f5-dbfb-85c7-8365feba9662@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2019 08:36:27 +1300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <1824_1575998223_5DEFD30F_1824_112_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D24EBD@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Question about SRv6 Insert function X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2019 19:36:35 -0000 Bruno, On 11-Dec-19 06:17, bruno.decraene@orange.com wrote: > Fernando, > >> From: Fernando Gont [mailto:fernando@gont.com.ar] >> Sent: Monday, December 9, 2019 9:54 PM >> >> On 5/9/19 09:46, bruno.decraene@orange.com wrote: >> [....] >>>> >>>> Since there have been plenty of attempts to do EH insertion or >>>> leave the IPv6 standard ambiguous in this respect, and the IETF has >>>> had consensus that EH insertion is not allowed, I think it would be >>>> bad, wastefull, tricky, and even dangerous to let a document go >>>> through the whole publication process, and just rely on the AD to >>>> keep the "DISCUSS" button pressed. >>> >>> draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming has a normative reference >>> to [I-D.voyer-6man-extension-header-insertion] >>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-01#section-13.1 >>> >>> As such, from a process standpoint, it would not going to be >>> published before [I-D.voyer-6man-extension-header-insertion] be >>> itself published as RFC. And from its name, the latter is intended to >>> be discussed and within control of the 6MAN WG. So I don't think that >>> we can say that it "just rely on the AD to keep the "DISCUSS" button >>> pressed." >> >> Yes, it is just relying on that. > > Situation has changed since this email: the network programming draft has now removed text related to SRH insertion. > Please comment on the text if you see text related to SRH insertion. For example: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-05#section-8.2 Why would draft-voyer-6man-extension-header-insertion exists if the SRH proponents do not intend to perform SRH insertion? Brian > >> A question of you as a chair: does the wg you chair publish documents >> based on current specs (or at the very least based on changes that are >> going to happen in the near term as a result of *existing and proven >> consensus*), or does spring ship documents that implicitly betting on >> changes that have no consensus? > > In general, I don't see the benefit of sending a draft which we expect would never progress to RFC. So this would not be my preferred path. > However, I guess that as always, there are exceptions and I'm not a priori aware of a process forbidding this. As of today, I'd rather not spend time on this hypothetical case. > >> The former is how I expect WGs to operate. The later shows a clear path >> to a huge pile of documents stuck at IESG review, simply because so >> later in the process folks found out that the document turns out to >> violate existing specs. With the risk of an AD pressing "YES", and hence >> IETF has been circumvented. > > While IESG processing is beyond my paycheck (literally ;-) ), I trust the IESG. And I don't see a reason to doubt a priori. > And even in this case, there may be a possibly to fetch back the document from the RFC editor queue. > > In short: very hypothetic case and beyond my hat. As of today, I'd propose that we work on the text of the document. > > Thank you, > --Bruno > >> Thanks, >> -- >> Fernando Gont >> e-mail: fernando@gont.com.ar || fgont@si6networks.com >> PGP Fingerprint: 7809 84F5 322E 45C7 F1C9 3945 96EE A9EF D076 FFF1 >> >> >> > > _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ > > Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc > pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler > a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, > Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci. > > This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged information that may be protected by law; > they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. > If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this message and its attachments. > As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been modified, changed or falsified. > Thank you. > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > From nobody Tue Dec 10 11:45:22 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FF25120A49 for ; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 11:45:13 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=raszuk.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aFx6yuF3wz-d for ; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 11:45:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qt1-x830.google.com (mail-qt1-x830.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::830]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9C1C61208BF for ; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 11:45:11 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qt1-x830.google.com with SMTP id p5so3870408qtq.12 for ; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 11:45:11 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=raszuk.net; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=6b77HB7LAtMqLt8wMpKoKveL0uSLLmySB4KiObkcqWs=; b=ekqetCiIYOR5cB0zeNOHXSfa0xC48fmZSuCd1hAae8oJtitxslB9msj9O0MqPhOV97 x8eZ1kf3OTJjzW6yOJZpeBm5espPzFzPEdCw9grTEQNOej4MKVDZTNausi1lqlfEI/js 6WFS7/dQk/gcvBP7kb8mNLR9M5CjPmla3OyAkQAn47ar29yk872vZa8QxjvIJlV/ftA3 n4vr7VgXpkl5DL6i4I6Bw0hVkPA6QbsGsqg+EVOLnGJxb6bEuo57J8nR0RA/KF3EaShj llQcBdtlaeO45PGCvGAAU0KEdzp2IyeM9YZu1/a1vLlCd8skudzx/DTUjI8Yy5abZSjV lr6A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=6b77HB7LAtMqLt8wMpKoKveL0uSLLmySB4KiObkcqWs=; b=kjo7v3UF8lqKLGgGz4E/OuFP+CjJIk8sRi5t+JA0HkjC+HqU9TFv1O0YhLFoV7VFbq 5ZfrhGZfrebeeB8KXd4KfOL9rsqDMsclSm8Twb9tzeT82ZMNd4Q+Z8vy17nyBZHMLALT HRHViR/fRYAWd3C6ubUKALwE4D28LHweu4JUXu+yyTKP6qXAoFBmbd1Kv7OSEL605MtM gYnA/D2cWP6c/NerSfCjcvn/qZauROZEx26UYv5XJdFAI9B5OUWR7T25WcTIF/Q/zAXY 7qiDaS9ZlJ+RqSIv+Bc7/YeAGU1xgZVyiRmbl1Vk8wx5JGCnoYyUKZYcl4J+yECyVPS8 7wfA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAX4MkclCU6Y8L19LHP8dMB+gydmuqiHiXQE0KFYIRvTjy4DmNPG m5UNqW01Vb/5ntOb5uc8rQ2Ke8W62x6HpIRwO9ThNA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyy/ZPYDX86qAjMuwzJ8CpQIiLhKUUiChb4QoPhjGxC18jVEUPydQaM+a9eTIW9pIfU90j3cKyO4mkRkjJuRcg= X-Received: by 2002:ac8:5245:: with SMTP id y5mr32612664qtn.343.1576007110650; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 11:45:10 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <3e31873a-278a-2154-0e71-4d820bba323d@gont.com.ar> <4012D854-2F10-4476-951D-FFFE73C5083C@gmail.com> <28214_1567694772_5D711FB4_28214_238_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48BFA9F3@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <129bbb32-0f14-b799-430c-8f76fb6b1279@gont.com.ar> <1824_1575998223_5DEFD30F_1824_112_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D24EBD@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <4384c08a-65f5-dbfb-85c7-8365feba9662@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <4384c08a-65f5-dbfb-85c7-8365feba9662@gmail.com> From: Robert Raszuk Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2019 20:44:59 +0100 Message-ID: To: Brian E Carpenter Cc: Bruno Decraene , Fernando Gont , Ron Bonica , "spring@ietf.org" , "6man@ietf.org" <6man@ietf.org>, Suresh Krishnan , draft-voyer-6man-extension-header-insertion , draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000fe8a1d05995ebf67" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Question about SRv6 Insert function X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2019 19:45:13 -0000 --000000000000fe8a1d05995ebf67 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Brian, > Situation has changed since this email: the network programming draft has > now removed text related to SRH insertion. > > Please comment on the text if you see text related to SRH insertion. > > For example: > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-05#section-8.2 > > Why would draft-voyer-6man-extension-header-insertion exists if the SRH > proponents do not intend to perform SRH insertion? > What Bruno is describing is the new situation after removal of SRH insertion at non SR midpoints from NP draft under last call. Section 8.2 is referring to SRH insertion at the SR encapsulation node (for example ingress to the domain). draft-voyer-6man-extension-header-insertion is progressing as recommended to relax the RFC8200 restricting EH insertion at any arbitrary node - not necessarily segment endpoint. Regards, R. --000000000000fe8a1d05995ebf67 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Brian,

> Situation has changed since this email: the network programming draft = has now removed text related to SRH insertion.
> Please comment on the text if you see text related to SRH insertion.
For example:
https://tools.i= etf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-05#section-8.2<= br>
Why would draft-voyer-6man-extension-header-insertion exists if the SRH pro= ponents do not intend to perform SRH insertion?


What Bruno is describing is the new situation after= removal of SRH insertion at non SR midpoints from NP draft under last call= .=C2=A0

Section 8.2 is referring=C2=A0to SRH inser= tion at the SR encapsulation node (for example ingress to the domain).=C2= =A0

draft-voyer-6man-extension-header-insertion=C2= =A0 is progressing as recommended to relax the RFC8200 restricting EH inser= tion at any arbitrary node - not necessarily=C2=A0segment endpoint.=C2=A0

Regards,
R.






=C2=A0<= /div>
--000000000000fe8a1d05995ebf67-- From nobody Tue Dec 10 12:10:32 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C513B120A76; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 12:10:30 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.997 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.997 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UJyfnpARcQCF; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 12:10:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ed1-x541.google.com (mail-ed1-x541.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::541]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EC760120A47; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 12:10:27 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ed1-x541.google.com with SMTP id v16so17112884edy.6; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 12:10:27 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=pBvE3xCDPW9Rj1xv1X2gAs51YlbibdHbJqXdyj5KtIM=; b=h3Ew+yiDgpccCxLBQw7nU93T6wwG3LWwTjndXxRD913LPdt4QhrFvf7cyadkuGqUza ncTHw341bxeqwZLLch2oCKtyUr1S1ZOAPA5opMYHVzfv2sVI10AiCkZyYEwwJg98GFlS RZ5J8E2JNJilAlp/oj60vUryAIEuQcwUOkURxW/laTpm6GTrJQj1dP/ib9Y5jzSlKoFc VbzdnXH/fuhVkTUUB3Jjo7NM+9DRoOodL0NKJ0Cf7KaLsx0i52B1yHu2bJDl2V0meaz5 qRx4ytmFjAwy8yP2kn3u8EcURRO+yKaCNlpyJ2QCY78BiwG4xaphrB/BMJe6a4YcSHht 7geA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=pBvE3xCDPW9Rj1xv1X2gAs51YlbibdHbJqXdyj5KtIM=; b=r2gSfZe+1hSsBUCu1wdSlN9wbx32ugIAf2VFm9t/sEyqph6eAlEt22XUJoAPmccki/ 1I2icKA+CErUZ9WBsbbXmlXSCgcPS17pP9aFBiCDm26mh0QdExzVr8749rtDd/X+74KY s+ZWJ7WeCZ2PrVfTthwzHnIDETJ1M1AM3AZVM6TdGLPmzLnH+H5zB8zJKdCdsTAbV2KD sdanxtxsZZAQjaR+dcNA4DesMdvh8OmkwLCGpXhbxEWzFKj7VpBZLb3Ur+MGFbXFxaVM U8iOxvSdswbri2Xc9bShzqFv1de2pvVOd6V8ucX1CmEjFE0xs8FEwwez9XXjvxeN5zYv k1hw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVNVJ+pyz2chCt6cbFJt+ngrlM52n7WQAr4ynRWgB8Tt4BBMF4V wW2Uy1Mmepg9WrI1ZjIrLKwFcdTXU2kJFxj2WxE= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwTX8r0rEj0M+qR5eLKcp3a3qMClnzOhs6xKR7RHmngEDGfd6FeQy/sk6wgDiquwQ/UTBctpCT3Bgg/cHOX4vc= X-Received: by 2002:a50:dacd:: with SMTP id s13mr41789266edj.194.1576008626514; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 12:10:26 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <3e31873a-278a-2154-0e71-4d820bba323d@gont.com.ar> <4012D854-2F10-4476-951D-FFFE73C5083C@gmail.com> <28214_1567694772_5D711FB4_28214_238_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48BFA9F3@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <129bbb32-0f14-b799-430c-8f76fb6b1279@gont.com.ar> <1824_1575998223_5DEFD30F_1824_112_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D24EBD@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <4384c08a-65f5-dbfb-85c7-8365feba9662@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: From: Erik Kline Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2019 12:10:15 -0800 Message-ID: To: Suresh Krishnan Cc: Brian E Carpenter , Ron Bonica , "spring@ietf.org" , "6man@ietf.org" <6man@ietf.org>, draft-voyer-6man-extension-header-insertion , Fernando Gont , Robert Raszuk , draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000058aef305995f1ab1" Archived-At: Subject: [spring] SRH scratch space (was Re: Question about SRv6 Insert function) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2019 20:10:31 -0000 --00000000000058aef305995f1ab1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" My apologies for raising something that might have already been discussed a rejected, but I'm finding it non-trivial to track this wide-ranging discussion across multiple mailing lists. Regardless of how SRv6 works now (using header insertion, as Darren said in Singapore), I'm wondering if it would suffice to say that the ingress encapsulation node could/should pad the SRH with an operationally determined amount of extra space to allow for header re-writing. This would effectively turn the SRH into a scratch space could be specified as able to be re-written by SR-aware nodes along the path. For example, if the ingress router new the SR domain's carefully curated path MTU, it could pad out the SRH to some fraction of that, a la: {segments_left=2, last_entry=5, [sr_rtr_3, sr_rtr_2, sr_rtr_1, ::0, ::0, ::0]} then permit intermediate SR routers to rewrite all of that scratch space for router insertion/deletion as needed. For example, if sr_rtr_1 needs to route around sr_rtr_2 via sr_rtr_4 and sr_rtr_5 it could rewrite this as: {segments_left=2, last_entry=5, [sr_rtr_3, sr_rtr_5, sr_rtr_4, sr_rtr_1, ::0, ::0]} If there's no scratch space left with which to fiddle then generate an ICMP error to the ingress router (ICMP source address selection aside). The rules for examining this header scratch space in the returned ICMP error might need to be suitably lax. I'm unsure of how this would interact with the HMAC bits, but overall, if this could work then perhaps we don't need to worry about insertion anymore. Yes, there's more overhead on each packet, but that should be tunable by the operator based on things like (1) operational path mtu in the SR domain, (2) operationally acceptable padding overhead, (3) expected space required for adding routers for re-routing or whatever... On Tue, Dec 10, 2019 at 11:45 AM Robert Raszuk wrote: > Brian, > > > Situation has changed since this email: the network programming draft >> has now removed text related to SRH insertion. >> > Please comment on the text if you see text related to SRH insertion. >> >> For example: >> >> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-05#section-8.2 >> >> Why would draft-voyer-6man-extension-header-insertion exists if the SRH >> proponents do not intend to perform SRH insertion? >> > > > What Bruno is describing is the new situation after removal of SRH > insertion at non SR midpoints from NP draft under last call.. > > Section 8.2 is referring to SRH insertion at the SR encapsulation node > (for example ingress to the domain). > > draft-voyer-6man-extension-header-insertion is progressing as recommended > to relax the RFC8200 restricting EH insertion at any arbitrary node - not > necessarily segment endpoint. > > Regards, > R. > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > --00000000000058aef305995f1ab1 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
My apologies for raising something that might have al= ready been discussed a rejected, but I'm finding it non-trivial to trac= k this wide-ranging discussion across multiple mailing lists.
Regardless of how SRv6 works now (using header insertion, as Da= rren said in Singapore), I'm wondering if it would suffice to say that = the ingress encapsulation node could/should pad the SRH with=C2=A0an operat= ionally determined amount of extra space to allow for header re-writing.

This would effectively turn the SRH into a scratch s= pace could be specified as able to be re-written by SR-aware nodes along th= e path.

For example, if the ingress router new the= SR domain's carefully curated path MTU, it could pad out the SRH to so= me fraction of that, a la:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 {segments= _left=3D2, last_entry=3D5, [sr_rtr_3, sr_rtr_2, sr_rtr_1, ::0, ::0, ::0]}

then permit intermediate SR routers to rewrite all = of that scratch space for router insertion/deletion as needed.=C2=A0 For ex= ample, if sr_rtr_1 needs to route around sr_rtr_2 via sr_rtr_4 and sr_rtr_5= it could rewrite this as:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 {segments= _left=3D2, last_entry=3D5, [sr_rtr_3, sr_rtr_5, sr_rtr_4, sr_rtr_1, ::0, ::= 0]}

If there's no scratch space left with whic= h to fiddle then generate an ICMP error to the ingress router (ICMP source = address selection aside).=C2=A0 The rules for examining this header scratch= space in the returned ICMP error might need to be suitably lax.
=
I'm unsure of how this would interact with the HMAC bits= , but overall, if this could work then perhaps we don't need to worry a= bout insertion anymore.

Yes, there's more over= head on each packet, but that should be tunable by the operator based on th= ings like (1) operational path mtu in the SR domain, (2) operationally acce= ptable padding overhead, (3) expected space required for adding routers for= re-routing or whatever...

On Tue, Dec 10, 2019 at 11:45 AM Robert Raszuk &l= t;robert@raszuk.net> wrote:
=
Brian,

> Situation has changed since this email: the network programming draft = has now removed text related to SRH insertion.
> Please comment on the text if you see text related to SRH insertion.
For example:
https://tools.i= etf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-05#section-8.2<= br>
Why would draft-voyer-6man-extension-header-insertion exists if the SRH pro= ponents do not intend to perform SRH insertion?


What Bruno is describing is the new situation after= removal of SRH insertion at non SR midpoints from NP draft under last call= ..=C2=A0

Section 8.2 is referring=C2=A0to SRH inse= rtion at the SR encapsulation node (for example ingress to the domain).=C2= =A0

draft-voyer-6man-extension-header-insertion=C2= =A0 is progressing as recommended to relax the RFC8200 restricting EH inser= tion at any arbitrary node - not necessarily=C2=A0segment endpoint.=C2=A0

Regards,
R.






=C2=A0<= /div>
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--00000000000058aef305995f1ab1-- From nobody Tue Dec 10 12:18:57 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAE99120AD2 for ; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 12:18:56 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=raszuk.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5mURnAxmK9JJ for ; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 12:18:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qk1-x743.google.com (mail-qk1-x743.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::743]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 60EA5120AD0 for ; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 12:18:54 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qk1-x743.google.com with SMTP id m188so17614702qkc.4 for ; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 12:18:54 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=raszuk.net; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=CO+rPgzHWz29tkcdVqdNg9YNNFbxBSFaL6UWvFLqYqo=; b=ONmf/w1HWiS1VMI3M6g1XB7su6oGeogmI4Ei6Tw5mLPkqsHUpnNeHTw7Q96j13Z2s5 fmN8WGa2aEnvtKzPyrZ8Zybo724uCNBYyUssbfwJCcj08dl6tURXwsB7e1pstJk5+my1 s2AHJVsQZTmWlrxMC2HtbFdI8ngf3+HSz9DFezwuC1g1An2HUwJBqfRutOvtGhayddDT jVc3/FcI5GoWWrOJDKAwAWtfoauNTviFMxhfyexBQF4bDXJeVZNctB9xVry2ppqcXnWY iIKG4EcUiBH4uiCvJIYLvBrh3eKkO+3Lfh/+euhIcxrpCvvOOOAMbvm9qpdxNDU5BG8L u67g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=CO+rPgzHWz29tkcdVqdNg9YNNFbxBSFaL6UWvFLqYqo=; b=AR3A4pTF8Q+UXuQ20YmFE/5VN9VyHRRszIN1u0yodnfLcnHD+HrhPbl9PobQH8yL/v 8+pqo/NOEoyE8mP+MmziqhQcUbW5vlm8Du+oBHQTeyDk7bdOn8BDUeVGMD4Sk90G6EMu DpYYpuD22Kxptu12XAUv3kOnkwBNpnlkbpZE4ApkSOvG/JP8DA1EgpgVdh41i0H1uHd7 7dcyOngdj1ou3BXLXG/nsEr//vQZk8H1CTeJFAHA2WZ8M2CO6njsGY65kU6SxGcgt5rM a5Tg/rAFSf0Zgolm2hfN6suag5/2Msplzw2mr/eUGVlAe1a/ER5jZTsfvqPzMDbQEF7L dWFA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXB0LO2pUeNQXxTHRgDLH+zFaVpYmYIGf+pBPFGj9oNZ/b+2r6h y8v6BXXBRnaMy9nZcjK8NERCA506SUGUvR9o3ReV4A== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqywwNkwBCtmXKLWGmTZ9il0n2s0DhHJsCWmHrkkAhZR91hERFWCYEW3hc8D+jxOGT9Jj03Wzk+c0mEumQBPzlE= X-Received: by 2002:ae9:e887:: with SMTP id a129mr16776213qkg.465.1576009133378; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 12:18:53 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <3e31873a-278a-2154-0e71-4d820bba323d@gont.com.ar> <4012D854-2F10-4476-951D-FFFE73C5083C@gmail.com> <28214_1567694772_5D711FB4_28214_238_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48BFA9F3@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <129bbb32-0f14-b799-430c-8f76fb6b1279@gont.com.ar> <1824_1575998223_5DEFD30F_1824_112_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D24EBD@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <4384c08a-65f5-dbfb-85c7-8365feba9662@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: From: Robert Raszuk Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2019 21:18:42 +0100 Message-ID: To: Erik Kline Cc: Suresh Krishnan , Ron Bonica , "spring@ietf.org" , "6man@ietf.org" <6man@ietf.org>, draft-voyer-6man-extension-header-insertion , Fernando Gont , Brian E Carpenter , draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000008eecb705995f3836" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] SRH scratch space (was Re: Question about SRv6 Insert function) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2019 20:18:57 -0000 --0000000000008eecb705995f3836 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Erik, What you are proposing IMHO is not needed. Each SR node (Segment Endpoint) is effectively applying new IPv6 encap so is already doing an insertion of new SRH while maintaining src address and previous SRH content (modulo updating it). That is legally permitted operation based on IPv6 tunneling RFC. The word insertion has been questioned in the context of adding SRH at non SR midpoints (say for TI-LFA) into existing "private" IPv6 header. For this sure one could think of more structure (bypass section) of original SRH already present or addition of 2nd SRH. Thx R. On Tue, Dec 10, 2019 at 9:10 PM Erik Kline wrote: > My apologies for raising something that might have already been discussed > a rejected, but I'm finding it non-trivial to track this wide-ranging > discussion across multiple mailing lists. > > Regardless of how SRv6 works now (using header insertion, as Darren said > in Singapore), I'm wondering if it would suffice to say that the ingress > encapsulation node could/should pad the SRH with an operationally > determined amount of extra space to allow for header re-writing. > > This would effectively turn the SRH into a scratch space could be > specified as able to be re-written by SR-aware nodes along the path. > > For example, if the ingress router new the SR domain's carefully curated > path MTU, it could pad out the SRH to some fraction of that, a la: > > {segments_left=2, last_entry=5, [sr_rtr_3, sr_rtr_2, sr_rtr_1, ::0, > ::0, ::0]} > > then permit intermediate SR routers to rewrite all of that scratch space > for router insertion/deletion as needed. For example, if sr_rtr_1 needs to > route around sr_rtr_2 via sr_rtr_4 and sr_rtr_5 it could rewrite this as: > > {segments_left=2, last_entry=5, [sr_rtr_3, sr_rtr_5, sr_rtr_4, > sr_rtr_1, ::0, ::0]} > > If there's no scratch space left with which to fiddle then generate an > ICMP error to the ingress router (ICMP source address selection aside). > The rules for examining this header scratch space in the returned ICMP > error might need to be suitably lax. > > I'm unsure of how this would interact with the HMAC bits, but overall, if > this could work then perhaps we don't need to worry about insertion anymore. > > Yes, there's more overhead on each packet, but that should be tunable by > the operator based on things like (1) operational path mtu in the SR > domain, (2) operationally acceptable padding overhead, (3) expected space > required for adding routers for re-routing or whatever... > > On Tue, Dec 10, 2019 at 11:45 AM Robert Raszuk wrote: > >> Brian, >> >> > Situation has changed since this email: the network programming draft >>> has now removed text related to SRH insertion. >>> > Please comment on the text if you see text related to SRH insertion. >>> >>> For example: >>> >>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-05#section-8.2 >>> >>> Why would draft-voyer-6man-extension-header-insertion exists if the SRH >>> proponents do not intend to perform SRH insertion? >>> >> >> >> What Bruno is describing is the new situation after removal of SRH >> insertion at non SR midpoints from NP draft under last call... >> >> Section 8.2 is referring to SRH insertion at the SR encapsulation node >> (for example ingress to the domain). >> >> draft-voyer-6man-extension-header-insertion is progressing as >> recommended to relax the RFC8200 restricting EH insertion at any arbitrary >> node - not necessarily segment endpoint. >> >> Regards, >> R. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> IETF IPv6 working group mailing list >> ipv6@ietf.org >> Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > --0000000000008eecb705995f3836 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Erik,

What you are proposing IMHO is= not needed.=C2=A0

Each SR node (Segment Endpoint)= is effectively applying new IPv6 encap so is already doing an insertion of= new SRH while maintaining src address and previous=C2=A0 SRH content (modu= lo updating it). That is legally permitted operation based on IPv6 tunnelin= g RFC.=C2=A0

The word insertion has been questione= d in the context of adding SRH at non SR midpoints (say for TI-LFA) into ex= isting "private" IPv6 header. For this sure one could think of mo= re structure (bypass section) of original SRH already present or addition o= f 2nd SRH.=C2=A0

Thx
R.






On Tue, Dec 10, 20= 19 at 9:10 PM Erik Kline <ek.ietf@g= mail.com> wrote:
My apologies for raising something that might= have already been discussed a rejected, but I'm finding it non-trivial= to track this wide-ranging discussion across multiple mailing lists.
=

Regardless of how SRv6 works now (using header insertio= n, as Darren said in Singapore), I'm wondering if it would suffice to s= ay that the ingress encapsulation node could/should pad the SRH with=C2=A0a= n operationally determined amount of extra space to allow for header re-wri= ting.

This would effectively turn the SRH into a s= cratch space could be specified as able to be re-written by SR-aware nodes = along the path.

For example, if the ingress router= new the SR domain's carefully curated path MTU, it could pad out the S= RH to some fraction of that, a la:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 {= segments_left=3D2, last_entry=3D5, [sr_rtr_3, sr_rtr_2, sr_rtr_1, ::0, ::0,= ::0]}

then permit intermediate SR routers to rewr= ite all of that scratch space for router insertion/deletion as needed.=C2= =A0 For example, if sr_rtr_1 needs to route around sr_rtr_2 via sr_rtr_4 an= d sr_rtr_5 it could rewrite this as:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0= {segments_left=3D2, last_entry=3D5, [sr_rtr_3, sr_rtr_5, sr_rtr_4, sr_rtr_= 1, ::0, ::0]}

If there's no scratch space left= with which to fiddle then generate an ICMP error to the ingress router (IC= MP source address selection aside).=C2=A0 The rules for examining this head= er scratch space in the returned ICMP error might need to be suitably lax.<= /div>

I'm unsure of how this would interact with the= HMAC bits, but overall, if this could work then perhaps we don't need = to worry about insertion anymore.

Yes, there's= more overhead on each packet, but that should be tunable by the operator b= ased on things like (1) operational path mtu in the SR domain, (2) operatio= nally acceptable padding overhead, (3) expected space required for adding r= outers for re-routing or whatever...

On Tue, Dec 10, 2019 at 11:45 AM Robert= Raszuk <robert@r= aszuk.net> wrote:
Brian,

> Situation has changed since this email: the network programming draft = has now removed text related to SRH insertion.
> Please comment on the text if you see text related to SRH insertion.
For example:
https://tools.i= etf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-05#section-8.2<= br>
Why would draft-voyer-6man-extension-header-insertion exists if the SRH pro= ponents do not intend to perform SRH insertion?


What Bruno is describing is the new situation after= removal of SRH insertion at non SR midpoints from NP draft under last call= ...=C2=A0

Section 8.2 is referring=C2=A0to SRH ins= ertion at the SR encapsulation node (for example ingress to the domain).=C2= =A0

draft-voyer-6man-extension-header-insertion=C2= =A0 is progressing as recommended to relax the RFC8200 restricting EH inser= tion at any arbitrary node - not necessarily=C2=A0segment endpoint.=C2=A0

Regards,
R.






=C2=A0<= /div>
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--0000000000008eecb705995f3836-- From nobody Tue Dec 10 12:34:24 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4F60120104; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 12:34:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.997 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.997 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bwKM2upxs1Wj; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 12:34:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ed1-x52e.google.com (mail-ed1-x52e.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::52e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7CC7B12004E; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 12:34:13 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ed1-x52e.google.com with SMTP id f8so17206167edv.2; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 12:34:13 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=1U5B0e/0eWcqJMya8BcVy5yuh7ysdQJ4emaZREFQe4A=; b=YeH9iZUXiSUkPvUEQ9LlSI6iNSk4MpmJsHtlVnh27J4ssQS+ssvSanOlHLSp+06bJ9 BTWlQ9QA7aiJLLaUhEjxJCR3R+6NFpxAuXpyeAlsfCSXMGtv5Og7Mg9fTno/5s+Tji0W 8SUFtPNufnnh3azsz3PN5Ecefg0N3bQEfIPPNpiP4J/AtjwKiCS0tG7zl9QAx3P3dXO8 yuxO8DwyxN3ItiGRaN29V+L/L8RYkpFvf/apnrdqI6ssXDLOkUhkaNicT+xd8FP5u31s dDUWXMIKn4mKCcrfAVI274hf8l8JgiPjlZQVM52ePgkS8LQOKDpd6w9JCefisoWYpTIZ /vaQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=1U5B0e/0eWcqJMya8BcVy5yuh7ysdQJ4emaZREFQe4A=; b=iKHvmrBdTeeRMTEBEAOVNbtmTK9YCnPJg5d/WaAYlG/eFEiiZXzMF366AQWsW6M2Kc IBDkFQF5w9FJmtgbQBfTqsH97GD4Hre4hEXC9HooqXMaNYbA6aSBmlQIC7nW91QALqD6 6lZPKoKHSbJkCzFExfVJ+P3gzogQRYheM7LQ48rzeeRRa6D/EBl0aLBykfkX1Hh4MHZj bqIkHUxnLBrCplPmNjb6ES0e27k4Ddmm7/x2PJfGpFu23WYxvBM1KD05YomXXoteaPbN GqoaxIdf+wijrWNXi1XRuRq7kQZKqVJQESMTrfwVZzNT6x6pH4tXq6MPgy69Ukw47baK tGXA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUdumklFoBKzpK+N47VoXI22DpNPTgL291vfM9gqTUxBotNH4MM 8Bl+C9JjkEFRpFOVqDOOAoFPReVhuT+k28yatww= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzGjzotEbksLMgl3yaM6kDosB45XOkzrR+XCb9I1nplHnbLmUfaiBaZzhYdiHPpymm942Fuv2FpUyRSBP40584= X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:22cf:: with SMTP id q15mr5701957eja.77.1576010051996; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 12:34:11 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <3e31873a-278a-2154-0e71-4d820bba323d@gont.com.ar> <4012D854-2F10-4476-951D-FFFE73C5083C@gmail.com> <28214_1567694772_5D711FB4_28214_238_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48BFA9F3@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <129bbb32-0f14-b799-430c-8f76fb6b1279@gont.com.ar> <1824_1575998223_5DEFD30F_1824_112_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D24EBD@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <4384c08a-65f5-dbfb-85c7-8365feba9662@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: From: Erik Kline Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2019 12:34:00 -0800 Message-ID: To: Robert Raszuk Cc: Suresh Krishnan , Ron Bonica , "spring@ietf.org" , "6man@ietf.org" <6man@ietf.org>, draft-voyer-6man-extension-header-insertion , Fernando Gont , Brian E Carpenter , draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000004fce3b05995f6f96" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] SRH scratch space (was Re: Question about SRv6 Insert function) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2019 20:34:17 -0000 --0000000000004fce3b05995f6f96 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Tue, Dec 10, 2019 at 12:18 PM Robert Raszuk wrote: > Hi Erik, > > What you are proposing IMHO is not needed. > > Each SR node (Segment Endpoint) is effectively applying new IPv6 encap so > is already doing an insertion of new SRH while maintaining src address and > previous SRH content (modulo updating it). That is legally permitted > operation based on IPv6 tunneling RFC. > > The word insertion has been questioned in the context of adding SRH at non > SR midpoints (say for TI-LFA) into existing "private" IPv6 header. For this > sure one could think of more structure (bypass section) of original SRH > already present or addition of 2nd SRH. > If there were no resolution to the insertion question vis a vis RFC 8200, then would it then suffice to recommend that ingress nodes should include some padding for these non-SR midpoints to play with (iff. the network has such midpoints), and otherwise abide by RFC 8200? Thx > R. > > > > > > > On Tue, Dec 10, 2019 at 9:10 PM Erik Kline wrote: > >> My apologies for raising something that might have already been discussed >> a rejected, but I'm finding it non-trivial to track this wide-ranging >> discussion across multiple mailing lists. >> >> Regardless of how SRv6 works now (using header insertion, as Darren said >> in Singapore), I'm wondering if it would suffice to say that the ingress >> encapsulation node could/should pad the SRH with an operationally >> determined amount of extra space to allow for header re-writing. >> >> This would effectively turn the SRH into a scratch space could be >> specified as able to be re-written by SR-aware nodes along the path. >> >> For example, if the ingress router new the SR domain's carefully curated >> path MTU, it could pad out the SRH to some fraction of that, a la: >> >> {segments_left=2, last_entry=5, [sr_rtr_3, sr_rtr_2, sr_rtr_1, ::0, >> ::0, ::0]} >> >> then permit intermediate SR routers to rewrite all of that scratch space >> for router insertion/deletion as needed. For example, if sr_rtr_1 needs to >> route around sr_rtr_2 via sr_rtr_4 and sr_rtr_5 it could rewrite this as: >> >> {segments_left=2, last_entry=5, [sr_rtr_3, sr_rtr_5, sr_rtr_4, >> sr_rtr_1, ::0, ::0]} >> >> If there's no scratch space left with which to fiddle then generate an >> ICMP error to the ingress router (ICMP source address selection aside). >> The rules for examining this header scratch space in the returned ICMP >> error might need to be suitably lax. >> >> I'm unsure of how this would interact with the HMAC bits, but overall, if >> this could work then perhaps we don't need to worry about insertion anymore. >> >> Yes, there's more overhead on each packet, but that should be tunable by >> the operator based on things like (1) operational path mtu in the SR >> domain, (2) operationally acceptable padding overhead, (3) expected space >> required for adding routers for re-routing or whatever... >> >> On Tue, Dec 10, 2019 at 11:45 AM Robert Raszuk wrote: >> >>> Brian, >>> >>> > Situation has changed since this email: the network programming draft >>>> has now removed text related to SRH insertion. >>>> > Please comment on the text if you see text related to SRH insertion. >>>> >>>> For example: >>>> >>>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-05#section-8.2 >>>> >>>> Why would draft-voyer-6man-extension-header-insertion exists if the SRH >>>> proponents do not intend to perform SRH insertion? >>>> >>> >>> >>> What Bruno is describing is the new situation after removal of SRH >>> insertion at non SR midpoints from NP draft under last call... >>> >>> Section 8.2 is referring to SRH insertion at the SR encapsulation node >>> (for example ingress to the domain). >>> >>> draft-voyer-6man-extension-header-insertion is progressing as >>> recommended to relax the RFC8200 restricting EH insertion at any arbitrary >>> node - not necessarily segment endpoint. >>> >>> Regards, >>> R. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> IETF IPv6 working group mailing list >>> ipv6@ietf.org >>> Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> spring mailing list >> spring@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring >> > --0000000000004fce3b05995f6f96 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Tue, Dec 10, 2019 at 12:18 PM Robe= rt Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>= ; wrote:
Hi Erik,

What you are proposing IMHO is not ne= eded.=C2=A0

Each SR node (Segment Endpoint) is eff= ectively applying new IPv6 encap so is already doing an insertion of new SR= H while maintaining src address and previous=C2=A0 SRH content (modulo upda= ting it). That is legally permitted operation based on IPv6 tunneling RFC.= =C2=A0

The word insertion has been questioned in t= he context of adding SRH at non SR midpoints (say for TI-LFA) into existing= "private" IPv6 header. For this sure one could think of more str= ucture (bypass section) of original SRH already present or addition of 2nd = SRH.=C2=A0

If there were no res= olution to the insertion question vis a vis RFC 8200, then would it then su= ffice to recommend that ingress nodes should include some padding for these= non-SR midpoints to play with (iff. the network has such midpoints), and o= therwise abide by RFC 8200?

Thx
R.






<= div class=3D"gmail_quote">
On Tue, Dec= 10, 2019 at 9:10 PM Erik Kline <ek.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:
My apologies for rai= sing something that might have already been discussed a rejected, but I'= ;m finding it non-trivial to track this wide-ranging discussion across mult= iple mailing lists.

Regardless of how SRv6 works n= ow (using header insertion, as Darren said in Singapore), I'm wondering= if it would suffice to say that the ingress encapsulation node could/shoul= d pad the SRH with=C2=A0an operationally determined amount of extra space t= o allow for header re-writing.

This would effectiv= ely turn the SRH into a scratch space could be specified as able to be re-w= ritten by SR-aware nodes along the path.

For examp= le, if the ingress router new the SR domain's carefully curated path MT= U, it could pad out the SRH to some fraction of that, a la:

<= /div>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 {segments_left=3D2, last_entry=3D5, [sr_rtr_3, sr_r= tr_2, sr_rtr_1, ::0, ::0, ::0]}

then permit interm= ediate SR routers to rewrite all of that scratch space for router insertion= /deletion as needed.=C2=A0 For example, if sr_rtr_1 needs to route around s= r_rtr_2 via sr_rtr_4 and sr_rtr_5 it could rewrite this as:

<= /div>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 {segments_left=3D2, last_entry=3D5, [sr_rtr_3, sr_r= tr_5, sr_rtr_4, sr_rtr_1, ::0, ::0]}

If there'= s no scratch space left with which to fiddle then generate an ICMP error to= the ingress router (ICMP source address selection aside).=C2=A0 The rules = for examining this header scratch space in the returned ICMP error might ne= ed to be suitably lax.

I'm unsure of how this = would interact with the HMAC bits, but overall, if this could work then per= haps we don't need to worry about insertion anymore.

Yes, there's more overhead on each packet, but that should be tu= nable by the operator based on things like (1) operational path mtu in the = SR domain, (2) operationally acceptable padding overhead, (3) expected spac= e required for adding routers for re-routing or whatever...

On Tue, Dec 10, = 2019 at 11:45 AM Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> wrote:
Brian,
> Situation has changed since this email: the network programming draft = has now removed text related to SRH insertion.
> Please comment on the text if you see text related to SRH insertion.
For example:
https://tools.i= etf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-05#section-8.2<= br>
Why would draft-voyer-6man-extension-header-insertion exists if the SRH pro= ponents do not intend to perform SRH insertion?


What Bruno is describing is the new situation after= removal of SRH insertion at non SR midpoints from NP draft under last call= ...=C2=A0

Section 8.2 is referring=C2=A0to SRH ins= ertion at the SR encapsulation node (for example ingress to the domain).=C2= =A0

draft-voyer-6man-extension-header-insertion=C2= =A0 is progressing as recommended to relax the RFC8200 restricting EH inser= tion at any arbitrary node - not necessarily=C2=A0segment endpoint.=C2=A0

Regards,
R.






=C2=A0<= /div>
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--0000000000004fce3b05995f6f96-- From nobody Tue Dec 10 12:42:37 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC284120143 for ; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 12:42:34 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=raszuk.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IYWYh1gbjBfH for ; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 12:42:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qk1-x72d.google.com (mail-qk1-x72d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::72d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2AF11120025 for ; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 12:42:33 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qk1-x72d.google.com with SMTP id d71so9694186qkc.0 for ; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 12:42:33 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=raszuk.net; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=gUPeZfUw/8NtQ+FVRzVcXGOyyrBfGJlJyI9exEmVjdw=; b=JCpOQaaSrlKvguoNJOnlVH42yySAXrhMy3llKdRtkolInaoB8y+Bpz4Q0O7NkdEum7 bECN99iTXaz0OCBKV4EbhULbk+6ihxrfr3CFgZbaIXFJIc0NZha5okQbGewibOtCtcZl g7pkUCNWY92FqKKPqt1ysVPE2+JNNcUKET04bwNq/P9oEuXq8IgTR4Ch2vvpYycM6M1T 0ANwfFjqkpYyhd9926usTgox/jcotEq1lcCfTqiZtB04ZNcLYz/NDDApaq2/zaJbC+xG 858NClGiUQMdoCTUxjdIhMNqOUEaIpdWF1iQBBLJa2NoRa0NFOODnJxMNRd1mwsUg/kP EqNA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=gUPeZfUw/8NtQ+FVRzVcXGOyyrBfGJlJyI9exEmVjdw=; b=bHVMYsNc7UKUI9St3xUtI/y1pLfabVOkE+ibxs7whfbvMo0MfRvRfPvYtEadDgd3ap Sn4ftx452zFzrNWMlXfnHJZ8kUg1cL0Y1AFSKcMC2U3ZaWGlSEowX5Wo9UpTmHS5C2wo k/h8m7TDucsVQP1ooMkr55tltPBrbshA/vxHa5+5fdLx8Ahe267mJ3h+MJWgxOHACQT4 z0bi0K2I3cLnYCVzBX0FHCn/Af1h9FyaG0RQsTWiSlngB1JS03EVGWfXuyL5sKBQDyTE DVFtpUAwiLI/BIrU00t5TiGY/R1cDyp9Hnv9K/r9meThELpJ1qwqZlr+HxEP5T5E0rPp ucyg== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXLAvpqIOoLWoT+4vSGU1dsib9TVBu3VfO6j/7BbiM4FcR6t3jH YJY47s6/Ggt3xHWarrNWJprlJ0OwvhZ2lUhsPT2CKA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxt3HZ9fjQQnO6VNcfg+PDWf5OL6xqFRdIkWVG2+F8KgZzIzdI1UyGOtwjhnOYhfsAI7lP7k7ODQ079allV6qk= X-Received: by 2002:a37:6087:: with SMTP id u129mr33991556qkb.219.1576010552140; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 12:42:32 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <3e31873a-278a-2154-0e71-4d820bba323d@gont.com.ar> <4012D854-2F10-4476-951D-FFFE73C5083C@gmail.com> <28214_1567694772_5D711FB4_28214_238_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48BFA9F3@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <129bbb32-0f14-b799-430c-8f76fb6b1279@gont.com.ar> <1824_1575998223_5DEFD30F_1824_112_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D24EBD@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <4384c08a-65f5-dbfb-85c7-8365feba9662@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: From: Robert Raszuk Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2019 21:42:21 +0100 Message-ID: To: Erik Kline Cc: Suresh Krishnan , Ron Bonica , "spring@ietf.org" , "6man@ietf.org" <6man@ietf.org>, draft-voyer-6man-extension-header-insertion , Fernando Gont , Brian E Carpenter , draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000001f7e2d05995f8db0" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] SRH scratch space (was Re: Question about SRv6 Insert function) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2019 20:42:35 -0000 --0000000000001f7e2d05995f8db0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" The issue is that RFC8200 forbids even modification to any EH unless the node is a destination node in top most IPv6 header. If there were no resolution to the insertion question vis a vis RFC 8200, > then would it then suffice to recommend that ingress nodes should include > some padding for these non-SR midpoints to play with (iff. the network has > such midpoints), and otherwise abide by RFC 8200? > --0000000000001f7e2d05995f8db0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

The issue is that RFC8200 = forbids even modification to any EH unless the node is a destination node i= n top most IPv6 header.=C2=A0


If there were no resolution to the insertion = question vis a vis RFC 8200, then would it then suffice to recommend that i= ngress nodes should include some padding for these non-SR midpoints to play= with (iff. the network has such midpoints), and otherwise abide by RFC 820= 0?
--0000000000001f7e2d05995f8db0-- From nobody Tue Dec 10 12:54:36 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 854F312011D; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 12:54:34 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.997 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.997 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wtHllyBqdRot; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 12:54:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ed1-x52d.google.com (mail-ed1-x52d.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::52d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 083341200A4; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 12:54:33 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ed1-x52d.google.com with SMTP id c93so17224653edf.7; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 12:54:32 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=KRjo/HankN5vVOKEegiY7dmqS8jB3ybsromK4isR3bM=; b=N6HxObx5U1nZhDBH+CKHhnz9WZQg4aGKCcvd395/DrcNWbDd6DEQXaQxnavtcjLFnB 2vNYMvceazQ8fXQ4Ajnsa6erQrB99AhQc8NXRr6XIIuCZ5q5bnmyiImza9zdaJrObjqk nZP/VfkSSU7og+Ninf4vYyQeaGhkEZaR+F2QxlcSHC7ijR8jDH/fIblUODnn18+dxPKL dVQmQ/HPRCv81s+XD2j+XveSFeLLOoWUs6OEaJ67+Q/fqPBvHrMNN4Bbbvy85de8xhhh FZIRmRKRX10dNnvdDYwbL3r5pbco4L9Oyxoz0neiPN1CN1P74myCQPIH6B4THYrzy6tt fT+Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=KRjo/HankN5vVOKEegiY7dmqS8jB3ybsromK4isR3bM=; b=XqiuKzZmOUHpLWSDuVAaDrertYvA0YnFcxajfd/HR+8/WaRqxflIOJmeBsR1ePGYnA fKt02fGdVrEAp76BxdOwdEIwYPJWdvSEoKyGiOYcgLatTqGlVau++JVdCuesj7PNAG3W 0xV9ovTjDSoSyWB43clbU8+5qvpZQPVI5PKQtL/hGulsM6OZA7j1h6236CEHoxTZ135l QJtOow3k9YuUiUPPFQR4XhVjPbeHmAjsm5NhpPvDKzyBrdKG1gmcGBEmRzoU0jW/fdDn DzffaQC7YGqcFUOyfbLNpnGWOwML4W0YwzuhFfih16LV1yXNwj5O2dJuWnTiwpt9xdTn cSZg== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAV5M3dJTAcKgNqdqCQ+Nf/iuzZDWHKqHNV8sv43QFY837DsTgeq 1wtfyoG3qoJ1vhTuUPZ91sWoEs90NydzQ+ABsJzF/FlG X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxCeGUU5L3gOTeG6agItdjL1XF9Ta473GnnfAuEZh0qEg6vqW7xT8LOEB7I2pYNHKe2Uz630EL7EaHQzdwhN44= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6402:2d8:: with SMTP id b24mr40664120edx.67.1576011271667; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 12:54:31 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <3e31873a-278a-2154-0e71-4d820bba323d@gont.com.ar> <4012D854-2F10-4476-951D-FFFE73C5083C@gmail.com> <28214_1567694772_5D711FB4_28214_238_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48BFA9F3@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <129bbb32-0f14-b799-430c-8f76fb6b1279@gont.com.ar> <1824_1575998223_5DEFD30F_1824_112_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D24EBD@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <4384c08a-65f5-dbfb-85c7-8365feba9662@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: From: Erik Kline Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2019 12:54:20 -0800 Message-ID: To: Robert Raszuk Cc: Suresh Krishnan , Ron Bonica , "spring@ietf.org" , "6man@ietf.org" <6man@ietf.org>, draft-voyer-6man-extension-header-insertion , Fernando Gont , Brian E Carpenter , draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000002873805995fb8b5" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] SRH scratch space (was Re: Question about SRv6 Insert function) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2019 20:54:34 -0000 --00000000000002873805995fb8b5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Ah right. Still, in terms of the things that could be relaxed in 8200, allowing the SRH to be treated more like a Hop-by-Hop header might be more palatable than things that change the effective MTU. On Tue, Dec 10, 2019 at 12:42 PM Robert Raszuk wrote: > > The issue is that RFC8200 forbids even modification to any EH unless the > node is a destination node in top most IPv6 header. > > > If there were no resolution to the insertion question vis a vis RFC 8200, >> then would it then suffice to recommend that ingress nodes should include >> some padding for these non-SR midpoints to play with (iff. the network has >> such midpoints), and otherwise abide by RFC 8200? >> > --00000000000002873805995fb8b5 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Ah right.

Still, in terms of the things= that could be relaxed in 8200, allowing the SRH to be treated more like a = Hop-by-Hop header might be more palatable than things that change the effec= tive MTU.

On Tue, Dec 10, 2019 at 12:42 PM Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> wrote:

The issue is that RFC8200 forbids even modification to= any EH unless the node is a destination node in top most IPv6 header.=C2= =A0


<= div>If there were no resolution to the insertion question vis a vis RFC 820= 0, then would it then suffice to recommend that ingress nodes should includ= e some padding for these non-SR midpoints to play with (iff. the network ha= s such midpoints), and otherwise abide by RFC 8200?
--00000000000002873805995fb8b5-- From nobody Tue Dec 10 13:02:41 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08F5E120121; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 13:02:34 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.497 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.497 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, FROM_LOCAL_NOVOWEL=0.5, HK_RANDOM_ENVFROM=0.001, HK_RANDOM_FROM=0.999, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pJk5xIIrUbEo; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 13:02:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-oi1-x22f.google.com (mail-oi1-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::22f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D53A6120104; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 13:02:32 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-oi1-x22f.google.com with SMTP id x14so11166477oic.10; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 13:02:32 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=MdBes8WQ7wLj7/lCo4RhMRWrdJQpr7ZOyMZg3C1XdV8=; b=jmBfSl72CJAYy6guKuhhsbNMu3r8Bs6T+l4bhlemvy5I3HncHrBrMolgVFE32DbglK d6zu/1YutyXhXe0miRFhuQ7ixbvklyoJS4YprcYeCbPxbvpwSUBaVn/3tD+RKU1CvSVF REAJhoGxKcn94gvsrjM1g+pYx5XJy+FcnSLAzP5tAJdEsS9qWdr6lfUiqzCZudab4DZh FhW88Yc4mVsFicNYVy+mkPYxgcvLxPSaWWhgbFWd+Y/6pu3kPhwyz1Yvhw3ALMoRCBjX pIBmqqmzKMTNjjoT2zbjE4J+Ps32YN5uTTr2SjKCP+xRkmXvI0KIi98dFfpEsI5VQH2J zMJw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=MdBes8WQ7wLj7/lCo4RhMRWrdJQpr7ZOyMZg3C1XdV8=; b=o/lsbk5jSxv1wXbrWsTI5crCieJEcVjqgTr3q5HSYJzUYJBUURzHMZHrjrbCaTOCQD g6JnWBt+AOKLISeHkdtUyfmKrddnF5NhYaWfbjwIFq99iRzBzgxIqQ/5RANKif0QHXlW jygyWuZEs6r450RsSnntHitiLc+TgvCBuX5t6LYgJ7Gi43iSDyTR0+YAjHRp60Glzba8 Falvml2ONhXSeZbYF1ImF3bYDNMsNEC4yskDdjVkjgny65w04ZGGtixEKvLYh0w5rmf+ Sha5SrmTTB4p6wKIQuGzeV94oOmp8m7a6HO9w8b4Iujmtc39dR8sr7l6gtZqMmTBnzKm l4lw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUY/mkcnC917S3PU7z2kQoWEL3jpdRF5It6MIHH2mHxaQK9v/Z5 COgFLREgaAkM8MeShE86cAfso38cKbTkSW7IkAY= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyzHkbI89na47seX1Lek5bCc5Z2Oo+AS5W/XOqsI8RZU9Tt087fmjg4G+Yrs0IrARkp+3I1g7DhUxPV6143FdU= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6808:f:: with SMTP id u15mr800249oic.164.1576011752112; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 13:02:32 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <3e31873a-278a-2154-0e71-4d820bba323d@gont.com.ar> <4012D854-2F10-4476-951D-FFFE73C5083C@gmail.com> <28214_1567694772_5D711FB4_28214_238_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48BFA9F3@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <129bbb32-0f14-b799-430c-8f76fb6b1279@gont.com.ar> <1824_1575998223_5DEFD30F_1824_112_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D24EBD@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <4384c08a-65f5-dbfb-85c7-8365feba9662@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: From: Mark Smith Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2019 08:02:21 +1100 Message-ID: To: Erik Kline Cc: Robert Raszuk , Ron Bonica , "spring@ietf.org" , "6man@ietf.org" <6man@ietf.org>, Suresh Krishnan , draft-voyer-6man-extension-header-insertion , Fernando Gont , Brian E Carpenter , draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000a5879305995fd423" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] SRH scratch space (was Re: Question about SRv6 Insert function) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2019 21:02:34 -0000 --000000000000a5879305995fd423 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Perhaps we need to update RFC8200 and eliminate the source address field, or at least update it so that it can hold a multicast address, indicating the packet has multiple source devices. On Wed, 11 Dec 2019, 07:54 Erik Kline, wrote: > Ah right. > > Still, in terms of the things that could be relaxed in 8200, allowing the > SRH to be treated more like a Hop-by-Hop header might be more palatable > than things that change the effective MTU. > > On Tue, Dec 10, 2019 at 12:42 PM Robert Raszuk wrote: > >> >> The issue is that RFC8200 forbids even modification to any EH unless the >> node is a destination node in top most IPv6 header. >> >> >> If there were no resolution to the insertion question vis a vis RFC 8200, >>> then would it then suffice to recommend that ingress nodes should include >>> some padding for these non-SR midpoints to play with (iff. the network has >>> such midpoints), and otherwise abide by RFC 8200? >>> >> _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > --000000000000a5879305995fd423 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Perhaps we need to update RFC8200 and eliminate the sourc= e address field, or at least update it so that it can hold a multicast addr= ess, indicating the packet has multiple source devices.

On Wed, 11 Dec 2019,= 07:54 Erik Kline, <ek.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:
Ah right.

Still, in= terms of the things that could be relaxed in 8200, allowing the SRH to be = treated more like a Hop-by-Hop header might be more palatable than things t= hat change the effective MTU.

On Tue, Dec 10, 2019 at 12:42 PM Robert = Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> wrote:

The issue is that RFC8200 forbids even modification to any EH u= nless the node is a destination node in top most IPv6 header.=C2=A0


If ther= e were no resolution to the insertion question vis a vis RFC 8200, then wou= ld it then suffice to recommend that ingress nodes should include some padd= ing for these non-SR midpoints to play with (iff. the network has such midp= oints), and otherwise abide by RFC 8200?
_______________________________________________
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https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listi= nfo/spring
--000000000000a5879305995fd423-- From nobody Tue Dec 10 13:08:32 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12C4912018D for ; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 13:08:30 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=raszuk.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YQId46jZcWhZ for ; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 13:08:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qv1-xf2e.google.com (mail-qv1-xf2e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::f2e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1BEF1120169 for ; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 13:08:28 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qv1-xf2e.google.com with SMTP id k10so3198144qve.7 for ; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 13:08:28 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=raszuk.net; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=YoNmZXsPIHN+/l50HzUQFve1xsxOE/schZBShxFu654=; b=Bp0nsBJMOUcXW9LFXHIlGT8WfPTctW+AQCEvAnzT79JerOcdJBnFR8Td/DQcTU5kjf SVCJhvZ3GKraXrIIGwdu454fjaFBiNs6IfvVeAnsdvQ198XNjwxbVe3P+vxRA4y+yFjW Z2WvCndKS44wrSivSf4gWIz53W1ads1b71FBzlWSz9brnGEOfj/G/OgGuIwyJ/33IGLg kLrBKLvWCMm2+OLN6H0E42+If66/A7oQ/T/+QzMvhlYTSa4tyXLmwTUz1sb8FrocmudC D++CZerPe7+T26lEoxOwwBHdEFAWhbkEqgBX9DkXd7GfRa+praGj5XHj1P8Js8PZi8lV sbjg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=YoNmZXsPIHN+/l50HzUQFve1xsxOE/schZBShxFu654=; b=N0uPtJZ5p+Qw7Eh2qGdcwns+HSPM3+XM1UjtI6RF2z7+wYuDfJFy2x+0PmdD/pet60 CoM6PP2ddYBSHiu2Cjg3kNewD1j5c8NKAngj244AbsCnEOShSNf5I1xpz+Jt7pgtjwjD 3rWLdeeTZIAyNr6cTwDqKn1aScblpqwJyJiznySlwurY/BqLUg+BLYD/hkF4TOupt8Ib mriBwJ3h6YTFZQfb1WWbpYR9+nhgYtqCXeCzfD1TBUqi5W54gNiFUA2OA6TwswA/oPyH vaQ+kRv2/o0O1P8QT13qAsEZYkNNeQMCdwqbUyXdmDq20SQDD/4gFEBWjIgn/9sPubyH mn5w== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAX9qvn66vaYouQMbq4vHeKdNY5mIeOfJSuJtO8lcKJbc0PEq7ej /g70CzVfCvWNqyQnI0sjiV6zrtuv3/URmoBPTbU3sA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwMXlr/nnrrvyaaouvz6tMiL/Myl7NUA9sqpG1nit9wYQOyEQqqULApD6kkh5FBZJ15QPanYx4bYepD79wVq+s= X-Received: by 2002:a0c:8a31:: with SMTP id 46mr31297082qvt.8.1576012106952; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 13:08:26 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <3e31873a-278a-2154-0e71-4d820bba323d@gont.com.ar> <4012D854-2F10-4476-951D-FFFE73C5083C@gmail.com> <28214_1567694772_5D711FB4_28214_238_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48BFA9F3@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <129bbb32-0f14-b799-430c-8f76fb6b1279@gont.com.ar> <1824_1575998223_5DEFD30F_1824_112_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D24EBD@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <4384c08a-65f5-dbfb-85c7-8365feba9662@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: From: Robert Raszuk Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2019 22:08:16 +0100 Message-ID: To: Mark Smith Cc: Erik Kline , Ron Bonica , "spring@ietf.org" , "6man@ietf.org" <6man@ietf.org>, Suresh Krishnan , draft-voyer-6man-extension-header-insertion , Fernando Gont , Brian E Carpenter , draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000cc0a2b05995fe991" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] SRH scratch space (was Re: Question about SRv6 Insert function) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2019 21:08:30 -0000 --000000000000cc0a2b05995fe991 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Well I take it as a joke ... as I am sure you are aware that SRH already contains those verbatim. PS. Note that SRm6 would require a local mapping database to decipher those in CRH. On Tue, Dec 10, 2019 at 10:02 PM Mark Smith wrote: > Perhaps we need to update RFC8200 and eliminate the source address field, > or at least update it so that it can hold a multicast address, indicating > the packet has multiple source devices. > > On Wed, 11 Dec 2019, 07:54 Erik Kline, wrote: > >> Ah right. >> >> Still, in terms of the things that could be relaxed in 8200, allowing the >> SRH to be treated more like a Hop-by-Hop header might be more palatable >> than things that change the effective MTU. >> >> On Tue, Dec 10, 2019 at 12:42 PM Robert Raszuk wrote: >> >>> >>> The issue is that RFC8200 forbids even modification to any EH unless the >>> node is a destination node in top most IPv6 header. >>> >>> >>> If there were no resolution to the insertion question vis a vis RFC >>>> 8200, then would it then suffice to recommend that ingress nodes should >>>> include some padding for these non-SR midpoints to play with (iff. the >>>> network has such midpoints), and otherwise abide by RFC 8200? >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> spring mailing list >> spring@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring >> > --000000000000cc0a2b05995fe991 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Well I take it as a joke ... as I am sure y= ou are aware that SRH already contains those verbatim.

P= S.=C2=A0

Note that SRm6 would require a local = mapping database to decipher=C2=A0those in CRH.=C2=A0

On Tue, Dec 10, = 2019 at 10:02 PM Mark Smith <m= arkzzzsmith@gmail.com> wrote:
Perhaps we need to update RFC8200 an= d eliminate the source address field, or at least update it so that it can = hold a multicast address, indicating the packet has multiple source devices= .

On Wed, 11 Dec 2019, 07:54 Erik Kline, <ek.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:=
Ah right.

Still, in terms of the things that could be = relaxed in 8200, allowing the SRH to be treated more like a Hop-by-Hop head= er might be more palatable than things that change the effective MTU.
=

= On Tue, Dec 10, 2019 at 12:42 PM Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.= net> wrote:

The issue is that RFC82= 00 forbids even modification to any EH unless the node is a destination nod= e in top most IPv6 header.=C2=A0


If there were no resolution to the inserti= on question vis a vis RFC 8200, then would it then suffice to recommend tha= t ingress nodes should include some padding for these non-SR midpoints to p= lay with (iff. the network has such midpoints), and otherwise abide by RFC = 8200?
_______________________________________________
spring mailing list
spring@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listi= nfo/spring
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Tue, 10 Dec 2019 13:18:46 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <3e31873a-278a-2154-0e71-4d820bba323d@gont.com.ar> <4012D854-2F10-4476-951D-FFFE73C5083C@gmail.com> <28214_1567694772_5D711FB4_28214_238_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48BFA9F3@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <129bbb32-0f14-b799-430c-8f76fb6b1279@gont.com.ar> <1824_1575998223_5DEFD30F_1824_112_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D24EBD@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <4384c08a-65f5-dbfb-85c7-8365feba9662@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: From: Mark Smith Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2019 08:18:35 +1100 Message-ID: To: Robert Raszuk Cc: Erik Kline , Ron Bonica , "spring@ietf.org" , "6man@ietf.org" <6man@ietf.org>, Suresh Krishnan , draft-voyer-6man-extension-header-insertion , Fernando Gont , Brian E Carpenter , draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000b316fe0599600e35" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] SRH scratch space (was Re: Question about SRv6 Insert function) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2019 21:18:48 -0000 --000000000000b316fe0599600e35 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Wed, 11 Dec 2019, 08:08 Robert Raszuk, wrote: > > Well I take it as a joke ... > It's as serious as performing major updates on a packet and not updating its source address. as I am sure you are aware that SRH already contains those verbatim. > > PS. > > Note that SRm6 would require a local mapping database to decipher those in > CRH. > > On Tue, Dec 10, 2019 at 10:02 PM Mark Smith > wrote: > >> Perhaps we need to update RFC8200 and eliminate the source address field, >> or at least update it so that it can hold a multicast address, indicating >> the packet has multiple source devices. >> >> On Wed, 11 Dec 2019, 07:54 Erik Kline, wrote: >> >>> Ah right. >>> >>> Still, in terms of the things that could be relaxed in 8200, allowing >>> the SRH to be treated more like a Hop-by-Hop header might be more palatable >>> than things that change the effective MTU. >>> >>> On Tue, Dec 10, 2019 at 12:42 PM Robert Raszuk >>> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> The issue is that RFC8200 forbids even modification to any EH unless >>>> the node is a destination node in top most IPv6 header. >>>> >>>> >>>> If there were no resolution to the insertion question vis a vis RFC >>>>> 8200, then would it then suffice to recommend that ingress nodes should >>>>> include some padding for these non-SR midpoints to play with (iff. the >>>>> network has such midpoints), and otherwise abide by RFC 8200? >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>> spring mailing list >>> spring@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring >>> >> --000000000000b316fe0599600e35 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Wed, 11 Dec 2019, 08:08 Robert Raszuk, <robert@raszuk.net> wrote:

Well I take it as a joke ...


<= div dir=3D"auto">It's as serious as performing major updates on a packe= t and not updating its source address.


as I am sure you are aware that = SRH already contains those verbatim.

PS.=C2=A0
=

Note that SRm6 would require a local mapping database t= o decipher=C2=A0those in CRH.=C2=A0

On Tue, Dec 10, 2019 at 10:02 PM M= ark Smith <markzzzsmith@gmail.com> wrot= e:
Perhaps we need to update RFC8200 and eliminate the source address fie= ld, or at least update it so that it can hold a multicast address, indicati= ng the packet has multiple source devices.

On Wed, 11 Dec 2019, 07:54 Erik K= line, <ek.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:<= br>
Ah right.

Still, in terms of the things that could be r= elaxed in 8200, allowing the SRH to be treated more like a Hop-by-Hop heade= r might be more palatable than things that change the effective MTU.
<= /div>
O= n Tue, Dec 10, 2019 at 12:42 PM Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> wrote:
<= br>
The issue is that RFC8200 forbids even modification to any EH unle= ss the node is a destination node in top most IPv6 header.=C2=A0
=

If there w= ere no resolution to the insertion question vis a vis RFC 8200, then would = it then suffice to recommend that ingress nodes should include some padding= for these non-SR midpoints to play with (iff. the network has such midpoin= ts), and otherwise abide by RFC 8200?
_______________________________________________
spring mailing list
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h= ttps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
--000000000000b316fe0599600e35-- From nobody Tue Dec 10 13:24:02 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0A3A120147 for ; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 13:23:56 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=raszuk.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bOq8doNak-Wz for ; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 13:23:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qk1-x729.google.com (mail-qk1-x729.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::729]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6D47A1201DE for ; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 13:23:54 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qk1-x729.google.com with SMTP id x1so17707717qkl.12 for ; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 13:23:54 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=raszuk.net; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=0D65/77h2YCg4+Wc4FjcWI+I+bXFAhfnservfvONuBs=; b=NRXJo+DlqCDrFv+pO/yr7pC8ZSlsG4MZz9RWRjWgU1aKovECfLo9ocGMw9Kv6Taq37 M/Oi/hd5T01bbTyXBBn/9VZ9BxdY88gBLY8GrYaQQKzrPZADH4UIfaDGPVgufjLKMwgt RcwbDrAEb9TYxM2K2LKzwr0EtNHTDAwlWmM9/wB7YiyidqUmYoF3C7pVd/PI8ovSp7q+ mEwAAvA9XuCUlsKC4huICaDYaQ4OmUZJiHGPFJx3F0q5QVwo843aOXTmiB1y08V5Y8IN B3uqdB40ekYFnSLkn+Q/ymkQ3fY3qsr6woBJOwMFbcbJHXqQzhNxvUrzp6MNa6WeEVKC lJ5Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=0D65/77h2YCg4+Wc4FjcWI+I+bXFAhfnservfvONuBs=; b=irZJj1YJUsNuXO+wRmGdRnMag+Xq7oTHoGzmL9wBbNQWR+LgB4hfa1wy2KBHzcgOOa R+u+fIOkgo8In4tYpDzL0lmZAhYF77SgB0DpOxPwi0dcPBj1DCzwyevChXb/we+4Gj9w yOeXjCvCH3Ga8nR7GwzJC7gJi9h7TZu7s/kGoi0k5OUjjRauey17oyI5jKXUhff0EvAo 8mJEQxM6oEKGktwhfvYpl81/Fvb1e+oROOqFKwXEMJhroYGEcKvoPE8W/Cs14o/g8PAw nKQSkerOvdRxrgWkbEJ+8BmsLc+Tg6L+TiPA0Zsjtnsas0U0Dbh7mRJx1I+CJX4Jac3U b/9Q== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVfXkM/SwExtUBM7yM0jWB/BEKWrdUNMRs+jLv01F20y+EGLyYU 8iwU6vV2KqtmO4u1wt7xFOtVi2W/skp+DBYkF1WL6Q== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzapSP+bAU0/GtfnFUrDhME9Z2qXmxlMz2jseLjLO1an5UtDjpehW2Cj229wrzOpfeTCjuG7IRT0BdrkosoyG4= X-Received: by 2002:a37:693:: with SMTP id 141mr34426827qkg.134.1576013033314; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 13:23:53 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <3e31873a-278a-2154-0e71-4d820bba323d@gont.com.ar> <4012D854-2F10-4476-951D-FFFE73C5083C@gmail.com> <28214_1567694772_5D711FB4_28214_238_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48BFA9F3@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <129bbb32-0f14-b799-430c-8f76fb6b1279@gont.com.ar> <1824_1575998223_5DEFD30F_1824_112_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D24EBD@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <4384c08a-65f5-dbfb-85c7-8365feba9662@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: From: Robert Raszuk Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2019 22:23:42 +0100 Message-ID: To: Mark Smith Cc: Erik Kline , Ron Bonica , "spring@ietf.org" , "6man@ietf.org" <6man@ietf.org>, Suresh Krishnan , draft-voyer-6man-extension-header-insertion , Fernando Gont , Brian E Carpenter , draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000032f5f0599602171" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] SRH scratch space (was Re: Question about SRv6 Insert function) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2019 21:23:56 -0000 --000000000000032f5f0599602171 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > and not updating its source address. Honestly speaking to me personally this is not a strict requirement to accomplish the necessary functionality discussed. Well I take it as a joke ... >> > > > It's as serious as performing major updates on a packet and not updating > its source address. > > > as I am sure you are aware that SRH already contains those verbatim. >> > >>>> --000000000000032f5f0599602171 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

>=C2=A0 and not updating its source= address.=C2=A0
=C2=A0
Honestly speaking to me pers= onally this is not a strict requirement to accomplish the necessary functio= nality discussed.=C2=A0



Well I take it = as a joke ...

It's as serious as= performing major updates on a packet and not updating its source address.<= /div>


as I am sure you are aware that SRH already contains= those verbatim.

--000000000000032f5f0599602171-- From nobody Tue Dec 10 13:46:06 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 741361201EF; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 13:45:59 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7d24SZBZg6qQ; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 13:45:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wr1-x42a.google.com (mail-wr1-x42a.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::42a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E3B9512018D; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 13:45:56 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wr1-x42a.google.com with SMTP id z3so21833343wru.3; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 13:45:56 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=1mUwwBqRClyNTVspuETaerSmk3+fps7mldGcRbCkLGs=; b=C3+UUu55UvIiNrfu/witK1PxnDhMtpAk2m7PRjp2oPhe5YbMKtdD+llAIqycbI+d9k UOPuadUrM6iy6lFrqcN5IOspaVHKG10bgPq0zMZxQOAMV53YrsjeFyDw0P9Sg7MF0O+5 D2aEeitaWjJ/aXfTM2dmAu4BW4PugLXgqSKP/sUgVhXkc/wp/qX06rsKZH+rhWvjeCRL qorx8Ni+HAY6+uf2SMZX/XsoBfOZGeHblA99Me+BHyrkFf5G8sjxYA0WKOAR7zb/s2L/ 3/XoumxRVsyQVQMK5RmaRL4CD0VaYTThui72Y6L6ASIuRXvLftQ2OB7rnb83zsE6/WOo uTQw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=1mUwwBqRClyNTVspuETaerSmk3+fps7mldGcRbCkLGs=; b=UqH3TVeDamAUlCWuDWmoSL0FlG2rk/8Ioeu1iB7IKkX3afOLwjsrbN+7ViqwNaT/Xd R8WSwdEwhYNtRqfWdhU6B/120AOkFeH9iiielOWMBUfhwgFUZvVMI/CsbnPWT+PRSU6S QPxQawPUdKAPanOYNxQKMgbHnYX9k4HpY2LkbrsLibgrT7MB7JvF451nK2OIaQcfH9PC lOZI939Mya+Q+DPq36MVevQf4DQajD9y5wOnynsKFdsM0KkmGP5hGVykH7jD3+JJ5zPw QLuF9qc9zpSv0VFrC04mMTaGEcm7cwqVWcuZ5YSNiwJDuAVK43vFIv2yZHrK5QimuG+P SNcw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWao+ahZYmyVFIKoXkOVkoxqgtbAGdg0w5f1dFGKT3SnNBdsDwS yGTkqp3yQHRrNliFKCNZPyQ= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwSMIZ4PluIdO/qCGdwAqSORLNZqQenc9oTd7QCHq4j715gFGL8FUhltDERDOcYVD/Z7CqK3Q== X-Received: by 2002:adf:8bde:: with SMTP id w30mr5502064wra.124.1576014355415; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 13:45:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.161.159] ([209.97.127.10]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id z4sm4728094wme.17.2019.12.10.13.45.52 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 10 Dec 2019 13:45:54 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Hinden Message-Id: <93EAADC7-A4C4-4690-9DEB-27A1F44F4B56@gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_66367927-1908-4B89-B893-5174F5903F1B"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2019 13:45:48 -0800 In-Reply-To: Cc: Bob Hinden , Erik Kline , Ron Bonica , "spring@ietf.org" , "6man@ietf.org" <6man@ietf.org>, Suresh Krishnan , draft-voyer-6man-extension-header-insertion , Fernando Gont , Brian Carpenter , draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming To: Robert Raszuk References: <3e31873a-278a-2154-0e71-4d820bba323d@gont.com.ar> <4012D854-2F10-4476-951D-FFFE73C5083C@gmail.com> <28214_1567694772_5D711FB4_28214_238_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48BFA9F3@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <129bbb32-0f14-b799-430c-8f76fb6b1279@gont.com.ar> <1824_1575998223_5DEFD30F_1824_112_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D24EBD@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <4384c08a-65f5-dbfb-85c7-8365feba9662@gmail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] SRH scratch space (was Re: Question about SRv6 Insert function) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2019 21:45:59 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_66367927-1908-4B89-B893-5174F5903F1B Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Robert, > On Dec 10, 2019, at 12:42 PM, Robert Raszuk wrote: >=20 >=20 > The issue is that RFC8200 forbids even modification to any EH unless = the node is a destination node in top most IPv6 header. I don=E2=80=99t think that is true. The options in the Hop-by-Hop = Options header and the Destination Options Header allow the definition = of options that support modifications. See Section 4.2, specifically: The third-highest-order bit of the Option Type specifies whether or not the Option Data of that option can change en route to the packet's final destination. When an Authentication header is present in the packet, for any option whose data may change en route, its entire Option Data field must be treated as zero-valued octets when computing or verifying the packet's authenticating value. 0 - Option Data does not change en route 1 - Option Data may change en route Other EH=E2=80=99s allow for different forms of modification, for = example SRH allows for TLV modification, see Section 2.1. Bob >=20 >=20 > If there were no resolution to the insertion question vis a vis RFC = 8200, then would it then suffice to recommend that ingress nodes should = include some padding for these non-SR midpoints to play with (iff. the = network has such midpoints), and otherwise abide by RFC 8200? > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring --Apple-Mail=_66367927-1908-4B89-B893-5174F5903F1B Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEm0rfRsOCoyamPexGrut0EXfnu6gFAl3wEgwACgkQrut0EXfn u6gY3wgAmG/wL36BsAcXmEFfHTU4GLaI+VnXPiI/8sq7Q+QGeurJioEiyV5RUG2F R+wSZiPuYN7ZhtJs22aVbUiCZlXUqfb/3DRwa5gKhE+t5oXInqHuptUnIdOhuNz3 OpywplfGHTI+7whPJKb1iOUsVZQVSmOpPEs11h1szPQdyL8cms26rUp7D39MPrsP 6c1vxDp21iAyHgn4ec9incMnjjsJnKsasD/HjaWiW84M/LZ8bv2fNJ/jeJfNmv0g Ayuyt/KTAyXl80WyRBk9H1anoUZ4NsFPjhyclqmOlhA/e2m2aRFboaYj6RfpPRXR rIjijCsuu3w1Aowhisv/qZ6+g0x2Hg== =xulY -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_66367927-1908-4B89-B893-5174F5903F1B-- From nobody Tue Dec 10 14:05:59 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CFFA6120220 for ; 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Tue, 10 Dec 2019 14:05:54 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <3e31873a-278a-2154-0e71-4d820bba323d@gont.com.ar> <4012D854-2F10-4476-951D-FFFE73C5083C@gmail.com> <28214_1567694772_5D711FB4_28214_238_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48BFA9F3@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <129bbb32-0f14-b799-430c-8f76fb6b1279@gont.com.ar> <1824_1575998223_5DEFD30F_1824_112_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D24EBD@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <4384c08a-65f5-dbfb-85c7-8365feba9662@gmail.com> <93EAADC7-A4C4-4690-9DEB-27A1F44F4B56@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <93EAADC7-A4C4-4690-9DEB-27A1F44F4B56@gmail.com> From: Robert Raszuk Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2019 23:05:44 +0100 Message-ID: To: Bob Hinden Cc: "spring@ietf.org" , "6man@ietf.org" <6man@ietf.org> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000004ee453059960b7c1" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] SRH scratch space (was Re: Question about SRv6 Insert function) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2019 22:05:58 -0000 --0000000000004ee453059960b7c1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > Other EH=E2=80=99s allow for different forms of modification, for example= SRH allows for TLV modification, see Section 2.1. Section 2.1 talks about segment endpoint and that is where IPv6 outer header destination address matches the node address doing the modification. If you stating that it can be modified by any via node - that's pretty cool. Regarding Hop-by-Hop - of course. For Destination Options to allow to define fields which can be modified by non outer IPv6 destination network elements - good to know. Thx, R. On Tue, Dec 10, 2019 at 10:45 PM Bob Hinden wrote: > Robert, > > > On Dec 10, 2019, at 12:42 PM, Robert Raszuk wrote: > > > > > > The issue is that RFC8200 forbids even modification to any EH unless th= e > node is a destination node in top most IPv6 header. > > I don=E2=80=99t think that is true. The options in the Hop-by-Hop Optio= ns header > and the Destination Options Header allow the definition of options that > support modifications. See Section 4.2, specifically: > > The third-highest-order bit of the Option Type specifies whether or > not the Option Data of that option can change en route to the > packet's final destination. When an Authentication header is present > in the packet, for any option whose data may change en route, its > entire Option Data field must be treated as zero-valued octets when > computing or verifying the packet's authenticating value. > > 0 - Option Data does not change en route > 1 - Option Data may change en route > > Other EH=E2=80=99s allow for different forms of modification, for example= SRH > allows for TLV modification, see Section 2.1. > > Bob > > --0000000000004ee453059960b7c1 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

> Other EH=E2=80= =99s allow for different forms of modification, for example SRH allows for = TLV modification, see Section 2.1.=C2=A0=C2=A0

Sect= ion 2.1 talks about segment endpoint and that is where IPv6 outer header de= stination address matches the=C2=A0node address doing the modification. If = you stating that it can be modified by any via node - that's pretty coo= l.=C2=A0

Regarding Hop-by-Hop - of course.=C2=A0

For Destination Options to allow to define fields which c= an be modified by non outer IPv6 destination network elements=C2=A0- good t= o know.=C2=A0

Thx,
R.


On Tu= e, Dec 10, 2019 at 10:45 PM Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com> wrote:
Robert,

> On Dec 10, 2019, at 12:42 PM, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> wrote:
>
>
> The issue is that RFC8200 forbids even modification to any EH unless t= he node is a destination node in top most IPv6 header.

I don=E2=80=99t think that is true.=C2=A0 =C2=A0The options in the Hop-by-H= op Options header and the Destination Options Header allow the definition o= f options that support modifications.=C2=A0 =C2=A0See Section 4.2, specific= ally:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0The third-highest-order bit of the Option Type specifies wheth= er or
=C2=A0 =C2=A0not the Option Data of that option can change en route to the<= br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0packet's final destination.=C2=A0 When an Authentication h= eader is present
=C2=A0 =C2=A0in the packet, for any option whose data may change en route, = its
=C2=A0 =C2=A0entire Option Data field must be treated as zero-valued octets= when
=C2=A0 =C2=A0computing or verifying the packet's authenticating value.<= br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A00 - Option Data does not change en route
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A01 - Option Data may change en route

Other EH=E2=80=99s allow for different forms of modification, for example S= RH allows for TLV modification, see Section 2.1.

Bob

--0000000000004ee453059960b7c1-- From nobody Tue Dec 10 15:22:28 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC2D7120255; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 15:22:26 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5INXFR9P-zRM; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 15:22:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from fgont.go6lab.si (fgont.go6lab.si [91.239.96.14]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6AF7D120059; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 15:22:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.7] (unknown [181.113.152.47]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by fgont.go6lab.si (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 014A486261; Wed, 11 Dec 2019 00:16:36 +0100 (CET) To: bruno.decraene@orange.com, 'SPRING WG List' Cc: "6man@ietf.org" <6man@ietf.org>, draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming References: <17421_1575566127_5DE93B2F_17421_93_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D1A3DA@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <6c674995-8cc7-c024-4181-60b160910f75@si6networks.com> <29345_1576001884_5DEFE15C_29345_229_5_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D250B7@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> From: Fernando Gont Autocrypt: addr=fgont@si6networks.com; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBE5so2gBEACzBQBLUy8nzgAzSZn6ViXT6TmZBFNYNqTpPRvTVtUqF6+tkI+IEd9N2E8p pXUXCd0W4dkxz6o7pagnK63m4QSueggvp881RVVHOF8oTSHOdnGxLfLeLNJFKE1FOutU3vod GK/wG/Fwzkv9MebdXpMlLV8nnJuAt66XGl/lU1JrNfrKO4SoYQi4TsB/waUQcygh7OR/PEO0 EttiU8kZUbZNv58WH+PAj/rdZCrgUSiGXiWUQQKShqKnJxLuAcTcg5YRwL8se/V6ciW0QR9i /sr52gSmLLbW5N3hAoO+nv1V/9SjJAUvzXu43k8sua/XlCXkqU7uLj41CRR72JeUZ4DQsYfP LfNPC98ZGTVxbWbFtLXxpzzDDT8i3uo7w1LJ2Ij/d5ezcARqw01HGljWWxnidUrjbTpxkJ9X EllcsH94mer728j/HKzC9OcTuz6WUBP3Crgl6Q47gY5ZIiF0lsmd9/wxbaq5NiJ+lGuBRZrD v0dQx9KmyI0/pH2AF8cW897/6ypvcyD/1/11CJcN+uAGIrklwJlVpRSbKbFtGC6In592lhu7 wnK8cgyP5cTU+vva9+g6P1wehi4bylXdlKc6mMphbtSA+T3WBNP557+mh3L62l4pGaEGidcZ DLYT2Ud18eAJmxU3HnM8P3iZZgeoK7oqgb53/eg96vkONXNIOwARAQABtCVGZXJuYW5kbyBH b250IDxmZ29udEBzaTZuZXR3b3Jrcy5jb20+iQJBBBMBAgArAhsjBQkSzAMABgsJCAcDAgYV CAIJCgsEFgIDAQIeAQIXgAUCTmylpQIZAQAKCRCuJQ1VHU50kv7wD/9fuNtTfxSLk3B3Hs3p ixTy8YXVjdkVwWlnJjFd7BOWmg7sI+LDhpjGfT6+ddOiwkumnvUZpObodj4ysH0i8c7P4C5t F9yu7WjklSlrB5Rth2CGChg5bKt541z2WHkFFxys9qBLmCSYDeKQkzLqhCjIUJizY2kOJ2GI MnSFDzJjhSFEh//oW830Y8fel1xnf/NVF+lBVtRMtMOfoWUqDjvP3sJ1G4zgkDCnF0CfncLx +hq2Mv26Uq9OTzvLH9aSQQ/f067BOkKAJKsfHdborX4E96ISTz57/4xECRSMr5dVsKVm4Y// uVIsb+L5z+a32FaiBZIAKDgnJO7Z8j6CV5e5yfuBTtX52Yi9HjYYqnYJGSDxYd6igD4bWu+7 xmJPHjkdqZgGV6dQIgiUfqkU+s5Cv350vK48CMaT/ZLo2BdsMhWsmaHmb+waePUMyq6E4E9x 9Js+EJb9ZiCfxS9exgieZQpet1L36IvhiwByvkQM009ywfa30JeMOltUtfLi5V06WQWsTzPL 5C+4cpkguSuAJVDTctjCA0moIeVDOpJ8WH9voQ4IeWapQnX35OIoj1jGJqqYdx65gc1ygbyx b8vw+pJ9E5GLse5TQnYifOWpXzX9053dtbwp/2OVhU4KLlzfCPCEsoTyfu9nIZxdI2PMwiL5 M85BfjX4NmwBLmPGoLkCDQRObKNoARAAqqXCkr250BchRDmi+05F5UQFgylUh10XTAJxBeaQ UNtdxZiZRm6jgomSrqeYtricM9t9K0qb4X2ZXmAMW8o8AYW3RrQHTjcBwMnAKzUIEXXWaLfG cid/ygmvWzIHgMDQKP+MUq1AGQrnvt/MRLvZLyczAV1RTXS58qNaxtaSpc3K/yrDozh/a4pu WcUsVvIkzyx43sqcwamDSBb6U8JFoZizuLXiARLLASgyHrrCedNIZdWSx0z0iHEpZIelA2ih AGLiSMtmtikVEyrJICgO81DkKNCbBbPg+7fi23V6M24+3syHk3IdQibTtBMxinIPyLFF0byJ aGm0fmjefhnmVJyCIl/FDkCHprVhTme57G2/WdoGnUvnT7mcwDRb8XY5nNRkOJsqqLPemKjz kx8mXdQbunXtX9bKyVgd1gIl+LLsxbdzRCch773UBVoortPdK3kMyLtZ4uMeDX3comjx+6VL bztUdJ1Zc9/njwVG8fgmQ+0Kj5+bzQfUY+MmX0HTXIx3B4R1I1a8QoOwi1N+iZNdewV5Zfq+ 29NlQLnVPjCRCKbaz9k6RJ2oIti55YUI6zSsL3lmlOXsRbXN5bRswFczkNSCJxJMlDiyAUIC WOay7ymzvgzPa+BY/mYn94vRaurDQ4/ljOfj6oqgfjts+dJev4Jj89vp8MQI3KJpZPEAEQEA AYkCJQQYAQIADwUCTmyjaAIbDAUJEswDAAAKCRCuJQ1VHU50km4xEACho45PZrUjY4Zl2opR DFNo5a6roTOPpgwO9PcBb3I5F8yX2Dnew+9OhgWXbBhAFq4DCx+9Gjs43Bn60qbZTDbLGJ/m 8N4PwEiq0e5MKceYcbetEdEUWhm5L6psU9ZZ82GR3UGxPXYe+oifEoJjOXQ39avf9S8p3yKP Diil0E79rn7LbJjMcgMLyjFg9SDoJ6pHLtniJoDhEAaSSgeV7Y745+gyMIdtQmrFHfqrFdjq D6G0HE+Z68ywc5KN67YxhvhBmSycs1ZSKAXv1zLDlXdmjHDHkU3xMcB+RkuiTba8yRFYwb/n j62CC4NhFTuIKOc4ta3dJsyXTGh/hO9UjWUnmAGfd0fnzTBZF8Qlnw/8ftx5lt4/O+eqY1EN RITScnPzXE/wMOlTtdkddQ+QN6xt6jyR2XtAIi7aAFHypIqA3lLI9hF9x+lj4UQ2yA9LqpoX 6URpPOd13JhAyDe47cwsP1u9Y+OBvQTVLSvw7Liu2b4KjqL4lx++VdBi7dXsjJ6kjIRjI6Lb WVpxe8LumMCuVDepTafBZ49gr7Fgc4F9ZSCo6ChgQNLn6WDzIkqFX+42KuHz90AHWhuW+KZR 1aJylERWeTcMCGUSBptd48KniWmD6kPKpzwoMkJtEXTuO2lVuborxzwuqOTNuYg9lWDl7zKt wPI9brGzquUHy4qRrA== Message-ID: <89402a30-129b-314f-90f1-ba6efcdd6a88@si6networks.com> Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2019 18:16:13 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <29345_1576001884_5DEFE15C_29345_229_5_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D250B7@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2019 23:22:27 -0000 Bruno, On 10/12/19 13:18, bruno.decraene@orange.com wrote: > Fernando, > > Thank you for spelling out your comment, plus on the WGLC thread. > More in-line > >> Bruno, >> >> On 5/12/19 12:15, bruno.decraene@orange.com wrote: >> [....]> >>> This email starts a two weeks Working Group Last Call on >>> draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming [1]. >>> >>> >>> >>> Please read this document if you haven't read the most recent version, >>> and send your comments to the SPRING WG list, no later than December 20. >>> >>> >>> >>> You may copy the 6MAN WG for IPv6 related comment, but consider not >>> duplicating emails on the 6MAN mailing list for the comments which are >>> only spring specifics. >>> >>> >>> >>> If you are raising a point which you expect will be specifically debated >>> on the mailing list, consider using a specific email/thread for this point. >>> >>> This may help avoiding that the thread become specific to this point and >>> that other points get forgotten (or that the thread get converted into >>> parallel independent discussions) >> >> Penultimate Segment Popping describes/specifies the removal of a SRH at >> a place other than the final destination of the packet. >> >> Such behavior violates RFC8200, which specifies: >> > > Extension headers (except for the Hop-by-Hop Options header) are not > > processed, inserted, or deleted by any node along a packet's delivery > > path, until the packet reaches the node (or each of the set of nodes, > > in the case of multicast) identified in the Destination Address field > > of the IPv6 header. >> >> Note, of course, that the reference of "Destination Address" in RFC8200 >> is clearly the final destination of the packet -- for instance, RFC8200 > > I hear and can understand your reading of RFC8200. Could you please check RFC8200, and tell me what other possible interpretation of "Destination Address" you might have, in the context of RFC8200. RFC8200 does not even specify any routing header types. SO...where's the ambiguity? > At minimum, I think that we can agree that there is another reading, as expressed by other WG participants, and hence I disagree with "of course". No, I argue that there is not. IN fact, I argue that folks have been following that strategy for way too long, and that's quite frustrating. > Personally, I understand "Destination Address" as "Destination Address field of the IPv6 header." as indicated explicitly in the text quoted. The quoted text is from RFC8200. In the context of RFC8200 the Destination Address can only contain the ultimate destination of the packet. Where's the ambiguity? And let me ask you, as chair, another question, that will lead you to the same place: is IPv6 and end to end protocol? The fact that I may claim that RFC8200 contains a receipe for BBQ does not actually mean that that's the case. > I'm fine with having this clarified with 6MAND chairs and AD. That been said, the Internet AD would have an opportunity to DISCUSS this. For the record, I think this is a major issue that should be cleared before it can be claimed that there is consensus to request publication of this document. > >> does not specify any routing header type, and hence the meaning is >> unambiguous (there's no destination other than the final destination of >> the packet). >> >> This is of course in line with IPv6 being and end-to-end protocol, and >> crucial for other related mechanisms to work as expected (such as IPsec >> AH). Please also check: draft-smith-6man-in-flight-eh-insertion-harmful. >> >> So, in order to proceed with the document, there are multiple options >> forward: >> >> 1) Just remove the corresponding text/behavior > > That is indeed one option. But as of today, this is not my assumption. > >> 2) Implement a similar mechanism in an RFC8200-compliant manner (e.g., >> re-encap) > > SRH insert is out of scope of this specification. So yes, IPv6 encaps is used. > We are talking SRH removal. I'm assuming that you are referring to PSP. My understanding is that this function (PSP) is to distribute the (forwarding plane) load between the PSP and the USP. In a way similar to MPLS PHP. But in all cases, this is not about SRH insertion. It's about SRH removal, which is also forbiden by RFC8200. >> 3) Do the necessary standards work to update RFC8200, such that it >> allows this sort of behavior, and only ship the network-programming >> draft for publication when at least 6man has consensus to proceed on >> that path. > > Not the preferred path as of today. Yes, it should be evident that it seems the preferred path has been (starting with EH insertion at the time) to circumvent existing specifications. > >> P.S.: I will go through the document once again... but the same >> reasoning should be applied to any EH-insertion/removal at a place other >> than the source of the packet or its final destination. > > It looks to me that SRH insertion and SRH removal are to be treated differently. I don't see how or why. Both violate the same requirement in RFC8200. Thanks, -- Fernando Gont SI6 Networks e-mail: fgont@si6networks.com PGP Fingerprint: 6666 31C6 D484 63B2 8FB1 E3C4 AE25 0D55 1D4E 7492 From nobody Tue Dec 10 15:25:49 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94274120255; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 15:25:48 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0hO_v6iZxJj7; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 15:25:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from fgont.go6lab.si (fgont.go6lab.si [91.239.96.14]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 95681120220; 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Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <27448_1575983799_5DEF9AB7_27448_30_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D245CD@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Penultimate Segment Popping and RFC8200 (Was Re: We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping)) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2019 23:25:48 -0000 On 10/12/19 08:16, bruno.decraene@orange.com wrote: > Fernando, > >> From: spring [mailto:spring-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Fernando Gont >> Sent: Sunday, December 8, 2019 1:55 AM >> >> On 7/12/19 15:40, Robert Raszuk wrote: >>> Hi Fernando, >>> >>> >>> The online possible instantiation of "Destination Address" as in RFC8200 >>> is the final destination of the packet. >>> >>> >>> No. That is incorrect. >>> >>> Hint: Please read carefully RFC2473. >> >> If you think a document on tunnels rules how IPv6 operates, and its >> end-to-endianness, then you have a huge problem reading specs. >> >> So I will not enter that game, because it would be accepting to be >> mocked at. >> >> I'll wait for a few days for our INT AD's response (Suresh), a response >> from the spring chairs (if any), and a response from the RTG AD(s). > > I'm not sure what response to what question you expect from spring chairs. A number og wg participants are letting the chairs and ADs aware that a wg document contains an outright violation of an Internet Standard that spring is not in a position of changing. I deem that as a major issue, and I'm curious how you might possible ignore it, declare consensus, and ship and request publication of this document. > >>> From: spring [mailto:spring-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Fernando Gont >>> Sent: Saturday, December 7, 2019 6:43 PM >>> The online possible instantiation of "Destination Address" as in RFC8200 is the final destination of the packet. > > It appears to me that, at minimum, multiple opinions have been expressed on this point, including from Suresh. So, assuming that by "online" you meant "only", the statement "only possible" seems excessive to me. I ask again: please read RFC8200, and in the context of RFC8200, please tell me what can be in the Destination Address other than the ultimate destination of the packet. Then, if you cannot come up with a good answer, then you might need to accept that "Destination Address", in the context of RFC8200, is the ultimate destination of a packet. And, since we are at it, please let me know if IPv6 is and end to end protocol. And, if it is, how does that e2e-ness work with inserting and removing EHs on the path to the ultimate destination of a packet. Thanks, -- Fernando Gont SI6 Networks e-mail: fgont@si6networks.com PGP Fingerprint: 6666 31C6 D484 63B2 8FB1 E3C4 AE25 0D55 1D4E 7492 From nobody Tue Dec 10 15:39:35 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBB96120059 for ; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 15:39:33 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=raszuk.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zq4Pn2Fol6-b for ; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 15:39:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qv1-xf35.google.com (mail-qv1-xf35.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::f35]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 249BF120113 for ; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 15:39:30 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qv1-xf35.google.com with SMTP id t7so4965437qve.4 for ; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 15:39:30 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=raszuk.net; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=tChW8E1v15jzUASGrY75qLdpJ/tfEA7Y3eXODiHgkAE=; b=AnzUV9oKrcKQqm9rtGJMIpUKMJ/zq+BIb2xF7JJLxK3qtm0ifxWhq3HBbKGHrZuhY9 RJf+J9jZxOG6MhxNoBsg3WFg2pJOpbeJ4xlW0fTh3JvCabyS8IbwcSZ83ApsZLTx3Q87 FTz7J2caurZpM0KFqxarGtWlh9xJRgzv2sELwa9WejbTaJrqqM/DdXmpzBUNLK7dqDbO JF2InhaUfP2ZzEEO2zA/D/44DmVn+FDfF40vtW1mjtVCDZAY/ffbM2vfqgNUxKXCx3pd 1PL9gYVsW1qCXz79wdE/WoCVNGpgf/VB+DFobZXU/2W/6xzyoTt5Pn7XbNedjBa0aDnB U8kA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=tChW8E1v15jzUASGrY75qLdpJ/tfEA7Y3eXODiHgkAE=; b=O8HF9PkrckxKKj7MaYegCuINSNB0fZCmylMx2yL1bIODCPNgdtoBPxPpFUlN4ptDnA lbChhTdIYB4bImX5zM3TcT7I+8hi6NvAbmO5g1i/YAl7CJ9Vc/If/3MtVsA5a01pwYDH C1MvPrtjoiHqTRTztBVtlNiaFKOz+tUrBeJpVaB1RpjIhxK5J0SEYy55DTpKjp2jEhKB aCXxt+FDupg605p1hXMPMHu3kshY/9tB6ZGT9W4TbiOZSulTVFA3lEjdGsOckAtx06ja EF8HRB6O9Ah260NfOnfE1hGLDEe5EEfP1tiFEAs63dVh4I/EfPWGwbQRQl4pmjndfb+z 2KCw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUg1vmN4sC83hgmJlzgwlgSL6tz4yuhwmISQiEbRuieJ7CsEVYh V+jPnTDW7GhHvtOfv3VkKDOFuqGQlRBzxaVnDeN2nQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyVL+0cYsGQugVH/kMHzhZRXw8Yi1ivRWIZ67d0XQNJHD+uPwbKp8ZYKthYE4dIGny024tnVuH85DlOSIR5WJM= X-Received: by 2002:a0c:e84d:: with SMTP id l13mr424057qvo.53.1576021169073; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 15:39:29 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <4255AD3B-379C-45BF-96E1-D3D9141A684F@liquidtelecom.com> <3bce7b18-ea45-d29f-5dfb-1d3258b07d1e@si6networks.com> <80A78F48-9802-4DA9-B264-1A8920C1DDF9@kaloom.com> <885c9ad6-ddd2-392a-7e9f-722509753e2d@si6networks.com> <27448_1575983799_5DEF9AB7_27448_30_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D245CD@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <5b0f37d2-56a3-5f7f-ab29-7d6ebc2367d5@si6networks.com> In-Reply-To: <5b0f37d2-56a3-5f7f-ab29-7d6ebc2367d5@si6networks.com> From: Robert Raszuk Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2019 00:39:18 +0100 Message-ID: To: Fernando Gont Cc: Bruno Decraene , Ron Bonica , SPRING WG , "int-ads@ietf.org" , Andrew Alston , rtg-ads , Bob Hinden , Brian E Carpenter , Ole Troan , Suresh Krishnan Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000f1088f05996205f2" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Penultimate Segment Popping and RFC8200 (Was Re: We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping)) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2019 23:39:34 -0000 --000000000000f1088f05996205f2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Dear Fernando, Allow me to make something very clear here. And, since we are at it, please let me know if IPv6 is and end to end > protocol. And, if it is, how does that e2e-ness work with inserting and > removing EHs on the path to the ultimate destination of a packet. > The dream of IPv6 flat end to endless is long gone if it ever was even real. There is no end to end IPv6 or for that matter IPv4 delivery today across any network. Regardless if this is private or public network of any reasonable size and service portfolio. Some form of encapsulation or tunneling is used in enterprises, in ISPs, in SPs or even in largest public clouds. So if you think that you can send an IPv6 packet and that this packet will be delivered to its final destination without any encapsulation on the way - this is just unreal. And the sooner you and others like you realize this the better for everyone. Think about L3VPNs reachability segmentation, think about SFC/NSH, think about L2 transport emulation of your circuits, think about seamless mobility, LISP ... Just a tiny reality check, Thx, R. --000000000000f1088f05996205f2 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear=C2=A0Fernando,=C2=A0

Al= low me to make something very clear here.=C2=A0

And, = since we are at it, please let me know if IPv6 is and end to end
protocol. And, if it is, how does that e2e-ness work with inserting and
removing EHs on the path to the ultimate destination of a packet.

The dream of IPv6 flat end to endless=C2=A0is lo= ng gone if it ever was even=C2=A0real.=C2=A0

There= is no end to end IPv6 or for that matter IPv4 delivery today across any ne= twork. Regardless if this is private or public=C2=A0network of any reasonab= le=C2=A0size and service portfolio.=C2=A0

Some for= m of encapsulation or tunneling is used in enterprises, in ISPs, in SPs or = even in largest public clouds.=C2=A0

So if you thi= nk that you can send an IPv6 packet and that this packet=C2=A0will be deliv= ered to its final=C2=A0destination without any encapsulation on the way - t= his is just unreal. And the sooner you and others like you realize this the= better for everyone.

Think about L3VPNs reachabil= ity segmentation, think about SFC/NSH, think about L2 transport emulation o= f your circuits, think about seamless mobility, LISP=C2=A0 ...=C2=A0
<= div>
Just a tiny reality check,

Thx,=
R.
--000000000000f1088f05996205f2-- From nobody Tue Dec 10 15:43:41 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B96F120113; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 15:43:39 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sP2wOwSYN1Vl; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 15:43:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from fgont.go6lab.si (fgont.go6lab.si [91.239.96.14]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2F9E7120086; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 15:43:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.7] (unknown [181.113.152.47]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by fgont.go6lab.si (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E85C585FF2; Wed, 11 Dec 2019 00:43:32 +0100 (CET) To: Robert Raszuk Cc: Bruno Decraene , Ron Bonica , SPRING WG , "int-ads@ietf.org" , Andrew Alston , rtg-ads , Bob Hinden , Brian E Carpenter , Ole Troan , Suresh Krishnan References: <4255AD3B-379C-45BF-96E1-D3D9141A684F@liquidtelecom.com> <3bce7b18-ea45-d29f-5dfb-1d3258b07d1e@si6networks.com> <80A78F48-9802-4DA9-B264-1A8920C1DDF9@kaloom.com> <885c9ad6-ddd2-392a-7e9f-722509753e2d@si6networks.com> <27448_1575983799_5DEF9AB7_27448_30_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D245CD@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <5b0f37d2-56a3-5f7f-ab29-7d6ebc2367d5@si6networks.com> From: Fernando Gont Autocrypt: addr=fgont@si6networks.com; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBE5so2gBEACzBQBLUy8nzgAzSZn6ViXT6TmZBFNYNqTpPRvTVtUqF6+tkI+IEd9N2E8p pXUXCd0W4dkxz6o7pagnK63m4QSueggvp881RVVHOF8oTSHOdnGxLfLeLNJFKE1FOutU3vod GK/wG/Fwzkv9MebdXpMlLV8nnJuAt66XGl/lU1JrNfrKO4SoYQi4TsB/waUQcygh7OR/PEO0 EttiU8kZUbZNv58WH+PAj/rdZCrgUSiGXiWUQQKShqKnJxLuAcTcg5YRwL8se/V6ciW0QR9i /sr52gSmLLbW5N3hAoO+nv1V/9SjJAUvzXu43k8sua/XlCXkqU7uLj41CRR72JeUZ4DQsYfP LfNPC98ZGTVxbWbFtLXxpzzDDT8i3uo7w1LJ2Ij/d5ezcARqw01HGljWWxnidUrjbTpxkJ9X EllcsH94mer728j/HKzC9OcTuz6WUBP3Crgl6Q47gY5ZIiF0lsmd9/wxbaq5NiJ+lGuBRZrD v0dQx9KmyI0/pH2AF8cW897/6ypvcyD/1/11CJcN+uAGIrklwJlVpRSbKbFtGC6In592lhu7 wnK8cgyP5cTU+vva9+g6P1wehi4bylXdlKc6mMphbtSA+T3WBNP557+mh3L62l4pGaEGidcZ DLYT2Ud18eAJmxU3HnM8P3iZZgeoK7oqgb53/eg96vkONXNIOwARAQABtCVGZXJuYW5kbyBH b250IDxmZ29udEBzaTZuZXR3b3Jrcy5jb20+iQJBBBMBAgArAhsjBQkSzAMABgsJCAcDAgYV CAIJCgsEFgIDAQIeAQIXgAUCTmylpQIZAQAKCRCuJQ1VHU50kv7wD/9fuNtTfxSLk3B3Hs3p ixTy8YXVjdkVwWlnJjFd7BOWmg7sI+LDhpjGfT6+ddOiwkumnvUZpObodj4ysH0i8c7P4C5t F9yu7WjklSlrB5Rth2CGChg5bKt541z2WHkFFxys9qBLmCSYDeKQkzLqhCjIUJizY2kOJ2GI MnSFDzJjhSFEh//oW830Y8fel1xnf/NVF+lBVtRMtMOfoWUqDjvP3sJ1G4zgkDCnF0CfncLx +hq2Mv26Uq9OTzvLH9aSQQ/f067BOkKAJKsfHdborX4E96ISTz57/4xECRSMr5dVsKVm4Y// uVIsb+L5z+a32FaiBZIAKDgnJO7Z8j6CV5e5yfuBTtX52Yi9HjYYqnYJGSDxYd6igD4bWu+7 xmJPHjkdqZgGV6dQIgiUfqkU+s5Cv350vK48CMaT/ZLo2BdsMhWsmaHmb+waePUMyq6E4E9x 9Js+EJb9ZiCfxS9exgieZQpet1L36IvhiwByvkQM009ywfa30JeMOltUtfLi5V06WQWsTzPL 5C+4cpkguSuAJVDTctjCA0moIeVDOpJ8WH9voQ4IeWapQnX35OIoj1jGJqqYdx65gc1ygbyx b8vw+pJ9E5GLse5TQnYifOWpXzX9053dtbwp/2OVhU4KLlzfCPCEsoTyfu9nIZxdI2PMwiL5 M85BfjX4NmwBLmPGoLkCDQRObKNoARAAqqXCkr250BchRDmi+05F5UQFgylUh10XTAJxBeaQ UNtdxZiZRm6jgomSrqeYtricM9t9K0qb4X2ZXmAMW8o8AYW3RrQHTjcBwMnAKzUIEXXWaLfG cid/ygmvWzIHgMDQKP+MUq1AGQrnvt/MRLvZLyczAV1RTXS58qNaxtaSpc3K/yrDozh/a4pu WcUsVvIkzyx43sqcwamDSBb6U8JFoZizuLXiARLLASgyHrrCedNIZdWSx0z0iHEpZIelA2ih AGLiSMtmtikVEyrJICgO81DkKNCbBbPg+7fi23V6M24+3syHk3IdQibTtBMxinIPyLFF0byJ aGm0fmjefhnmVJyCIl/FDkCHprVhTme57G2/WdoGnUvnT7mcwDRb8XY5nNRkOJsqqLPemKjz kx8mXdQbunXtX9bKyVgd1gIl+LLsxbdzRCch773UBVoortPdK3kMyLtZ4uMeDX3comjx+6VL bztUdJ1Zc9/njwVG8fgmQ+0Kj5+bzQfUY+MmX0HTXIx3B4R1I1a8QoOwi1N+iZNdewV5Zfq+ 29NlQLnVPjCRCKbaz9k6RJ2oIti55YUI6zSsL3lmlOXsRbXN5bRswFczkNSCJxJMlDiyAUIC WOay7ymzvgzPa+BY/mYn94vRaurDQ4/ljOfj6oqgfjts+dJev4Jj89vp8MQI3KJpZPEAEQEA AYkCJQQYAQIADwUCTmyjaAIbDAUJEswDAAAKCRCuJQ1VHU50km4xEACho45PZrUjY4Zl2opR DFNo5a6roTOPpgwO9PcBb3I5F8yX2Dnew+9OhgWXbBhAFq4DCx+9Gjs43Bn60qbZTDbLGJ/m 8N4PwEiq0e5MKceYcbetEdEUWhm5L6psU9ZZ82GR3UGxPXYe+oifEoJjOXQ39avf9S8p3yKP Diil0E79rn7LbJjMcgMLyjFg9SDoJ6pHLtniJoDhEAaSSgeV7Y745+gyMIdtQmrFHfqrFdjq D6G0HE+Z68ywc5KN67YxhvhBmSycs1ZSKAXv1zLDlXdmjHDHkU3xMcB+RkuiTba8yRFYwb/n j62CC4NhFTuIKOc4ta3dJsyXTGh/hO9UjWUnmAGfd0fnzTBZF8Qlnw/8ftx5lt4/O+eqY1EN RITScnPzXE/wMOlTtdkddQ+QN6xt6jyR2XtAIi7aAFHypIqA3lLI9hF9x+lj4UQ2yA9LqpoX 6URpPOd13JhAyDe47cwsP1u9Y+OBvQTVLSvw7Liu2b4KjqL4lx++VdBi7dXsjJ6kjIRjI6Lb WVpxe8LumMCuVDepTafBZ49gr7Fgc4F9ZSCo6ChgQNLn6WDzIkqFX+42KuHz90AHWhuW+KZR 1aJylERWeTcMCGUSBptd48KniWmD6kPKpzwoMkJtEXTuO2lVuborxzwuqOTNuYg9lWDl7zKt wPI9brGzquUHy4qRrA== Message-ID: <603cbb85-3b68-5c93-e7c5-3768e6310f48@si6networks.com> Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2019 18:43:15 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Penultimate Segment Popping and RFC8200 (Was Re: We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping)) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2019 23:43:39 -0000 On 10/12/19 18:39, Robert Raszuk wrote: > Dear Fernando,  > > Allow me to make something very clear here.  > > And, since we are at it, please let me know if IPv6 is and end to end > protocol. And, if it is, how does that e2e-ness work with inserting and > removing EHs on the path to the ultimate destination of a packet. > > > The dream of IPv6 flat end to endless is long gone if it ever was > even real. You seem to missing the point. You are proposing behavior that goes against an Internet Standard. The fact that you are doing Standards Track work while violating an Internet Standard is simply amusing. If you want to do that, formally update the relevan spec. *That* is the way to go, as opposed to find your own reason for circumventing existing specifications. Thanks, -- Fernando Gont SI6 Networks e-mail: fgont@si6networks.com PGP Fingerprint: 6666 31C6 D484 63B2 8FB1 E3C4 AE25 0D55 1D4E 7492 From nobody Tue Dec 10 15:51:08 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8262B12025D for ; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 15:51:05 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=raszuk.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7cT1iCRuDJpM for ; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 15:51:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qk1-x733.google.com (mail-qk1-x733.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::733]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 14EC7120113 for ; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 15:51:03 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qk1-x733.google.com with SMTP id x1so18035997qkl.12 for ; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 15:51:03 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=raszuk.net; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=qA+CXYl/GsVAo+tIOxxnpVCXJu/l2bFHBiirkx05lzc=; b=TS7HcUZeZe9ILjmKD9R57bB3qKb1iGzuMYLXKohBhI1zrVmko8W0KURUk0STw10Bfe ZOFGRgRTcbfu5WJ1rJn5Cajz3yfwSJ79+I11dT3pyOXkmSlUU/zGJFOKnmV36p2o/4fy hVAKs6URpMsoXLfFT32RXNDI2UEsSxEgWA+34re0I78ZxuijlQJURqmDNtFnhhrO+gh9 XZ07AvtnNgH/Rz9oQw2cJylt7Q5tOdQibHGYNEafcqQm229SyJQARst38exjUVvP6+9G su15qIjZTPAXs4Md0rJuWBWlz1JHqfeR6oS4g7lmT1tAe5IgemMjzLVApmxHxNZlV3bk zp/w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=qA+CXYl/GsVAo+tIOxxnpVCXJu/l2bFHBiirkx05lzc=; b=r4Ek8SoYP8pSv1sQIjpLireMXb59Ek7dMMY92fzLOmJ+IxIY1HrizuhqfmUzEG4RfD hpN/z4x07A+bJOPTrPhVQ9DyPH5uvookg0MRM8NJQUo78dpznofx55ygytbietVieewJ Kjh6hDbZyn3DIkxi8cIkfiIEvcGlMy6yq/i+obTJf8Lm3E7rdPqDqp0xRn/4QH11WJF3 F749AUwvFBLmyvVtFXREYvhmuK4r8j3CX61GfF9cswA4Rb2btbXw5J1ssHiQeHZoOewl XIUmNVf21/mtOag/gYKm7hw5KipTjrQmPrhhUN+pNJH6V279YaZMZIgqeBkvcj52TPrY iaCA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVoHJMYDLcuSAW3t8WAyIYPv1mwj1gJ3TRBt8v8XsJvY5MYl5p8 gxUMRa3C/Yh6X+V6CC+5gYt87G+NmruXRoD4Haj6PA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzuMzRYLVcmI65XBYTL6Ky5Te2lg2gOfPv4MLywIZrE5a93B0BNe8YIrAdKzsHlBdLNGaYvEjJ8sSYpG64YHuQ= X-Received: by 2002:a37:6087:: with SMTP id u129mr325258qkb.219.1576021861961; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 15:51:01 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <4255AD3B-379C-45BF-96E1-D3D9141A684F@liquidtelecom.com> <3bce7b18-ea45-d29f-5dfb-1d3258b07d1e@si6networks.com> <80A78F48-9802-4DA9-B264-1A8920C1DDF9@kaloom.com> <885c9ad6-ddd2-392a-7e9f-722509753e2d@si6networks.com> <27448_1575983799_5DEF9AB7_27448_30_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D245CD@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <5b0f37d2-56a3-5f7f-ab29-7d6ebc2367d5@si6networks.com> <603cbb85-3b68-5c93-e7c5-3768e6310f48@si6networks.com> In-Reply-To: <603cbb85-3b68-5c93-e7c5-3768e6310f48@si6networks.com> From: Robert Raszuk Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2019 00:50:50 +0100 Message-ID: To: Fernando Gont Cc: Bruno Decraene , Ron Bonica , SPRING WG , "int-ads@ietf.org" , Andrew Alston , rtg-ads , Bob Hinden , Brian E Carpenter , Ole Troan , Suresh Krishnan Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000003da5270599622fc8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Penultimate Segment Popping and RFC8200 (Was Re: We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping)) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2019 23:51:06 -0000 --0000000000003da5270599622fc8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" By your books does RFC 2473 or RFC 4798 or 100s of other RFCs which encapsulate IPv6 packets all violate Internet Standard I presume IPv6 spec ? One of us clearly is missing the point. I will let list members judge which one :) Cheers, R. On Wed, Dec 11, 2019 at 12:43 AM Fernando Gont wrote: > On 10/12/19 18:39, Robert Raszuk wrote: > > Dear Fernando, > > > > Allow me to make something very clear here. > > > > And, since we are at it, please let me know if IPv6 is and end to end > > protocol. And, if it is, how does that e2e-ness work with inserting > and > > removing EHs on the path to the ultimate destination of a packet. > > > > > > The dream of IPv6 flat end to endless is long gone if it ever was > > even real. > > You seem to missing the point. You are proposing behavior that goes > against an Internet Standard. > > The fact that you are doing Standards Track work while violating an > Internet Standard is simply amusing. > > If you want to do that, formally update the relevan spec. *That* is the > way to go, as opposed to find your own reason for circumventing existing > specifications. > > Thanks, > -- > Fernando Gont > SI6 Networks > e-mail: fgont@si6networks.com > PGP Fingerprint: 6666 31C6 D484 63B2 8FB1 E3C4 AE25 0D55 1D4E 7492 > > > > > --0000000000003da5270599622fc8 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

By your books does RFC 2473 or RFC 4798 or = 100s of other RFCs which encapsulate IPv6 packets all violate Internet Stan= dard I presume IPv6 spec ?=C2=A0

One of us clearly is mi= ssing the point. I will let list members judge which one :)

<= /div>
Cheers,
R.


On Wed, Dec 11, 2019 at = 12:43 AM Fernando Gont <fgont@s= i6networks.com> wrote:
On 10/12/19 18:39, Robert Raszuk wrote:
> Dear=C2=A0Fernando,=C2=A0
>
> Allow me to make something very clear here.=C2=A0
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0And, since we are at it, please let me know if IPv6= is and end to end
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0protocol. And, if it is, how does that e2e-ness wor= k with inserting and
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0removing EHs on the path to the ultimate destinatio= n of a packet.
>
>
> The dream of IPv6 flat end to endless=C2=A0is long gone if it ever was=
> even=C2=A0real.

You seem to missing the point. You are proposing behavior that goes
against an Internet Standard.

The fact that you are doing Standards Track work while violating an
Internet Standard is simply amusing.

If you want to do that, formally update the relevan spec. *That* is the
way to go, as opposed to find your own reason for circumventing existing specifications.

Thanks,
--
Fernando Gont
SI6 Networks
e-mail: fgont@si= 6networks.com
PGP Fingerprint: 6666 31C6 D484 63B2 8FB1 E3C4 AE25 0D55 1D4E 7492




--0000000000003da5270599622fc8-- From nobody Tue Dec 10 16:38:26 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F32871201AA; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 16:38:24 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.499 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.499 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, FROM_LOCAL_NOVOWEL=0.5, HK_RANDOM_ENVFROM=0.001, HK_RANDOM_FROM=0.999, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZQB1LCv16Avn; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 16:38:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ot1-x336.google.com (mail-ot1-x336.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::336]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D339C12018B; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 16:38:22 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ot1-x336.google.com with SMTP id 77so17282750oty.6; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 16:38:22 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=aFSl6I7rytE5EKtFSqL8epDa09BaWvpvD0m/8YUB27Y=; b=sbHaVZkpE+8tca7aFP6sA8x6hH8f12rvexLrJLOHXqu/bMCRunJvI2QuWcwcBD8/QJ KPENlCCiEkY5qGI9qMkQX2fRm/20AzxYRdXO+UGWvTAF2tamPiwCaLgKzsj9aceweloe K/TjRv8vO99/VKKQHmfW2hDvKZ38k6nwLr5hATf8HhuNB0pH7N3or2qgbE3ykhzCKrQj f3+/g0yyiVr7asviADR95jQ7I+YBdraVJTkes2WPrIOg0n6wovQng1Gc1TK/gCjHscIC 5OFXCZ7K02atNGFPCl2Pt6sl/TsjSWqxv8RkGP4vS54BNXgvm8mlNA5Z0GxzmpKno10X 4zCw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=aFSl6I7rytE5EKtFSqL8epDa09BaWvpvD0m/8YUB27Y=; b=HbM8k5exR9P8hkB61RaJOYz81wMAvwzcLg3Ay2blnnCK8j9dIylKmUuFqE1tOfECT6 qk6iEhvix5mxxft2dOUd/lxONBJ9XNeB9RQDdVpnfpczwcCNFWgO1EflVxZxNIhP/eRr c19+KYdyczRkekOQOjNXR1cMJe4PJoiiPEAT/AKMljPqDNTPWgkCZkv3pjDUVGUbx9Mm U8WWnfJwQ07YA0dpWd62ekQ7qfeNkHy36bHnYKWFQhmBq4YjfOV7NPcrK1qbgRGj/y4U ejDUBuSrdoM+yPtvj0wJ3Nh970GdtU7XsmizAsijj7vV5osGWs4TxIGisXwSHT5Bq79a 2mkw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXrlgzlR0wA0B9HXBI+Tf2Mts7G7W8eLcv+IFgIdnwT+/I0EIfJ BwtVQLfTP3/D45WfQaACBYLDDfCWUZn1dwjeMrM= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwo+ZmTtX1QU4TLt9pMkVtM9s0ic/0iZCf/ALeZnCXNTKlip/DDerOQW35gLl5A+bj9ndTsb9VTz/PXZTmu3dY= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6830:9:: with SMTP id c9mr458573otp.94.1576024702161; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 16:38:22 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <4255AD3B-379C-45BF-96E1-D3D9141A684F@liquidtelecom.com> <3bce7b18-ea45-d29f-5dfb-1d3258b07d1e@si6networks.com> <80A78F48-9802-4DA9-B264-1A8920C1DDF9@kaloom.com> <885c9ad6-ddd2-392a-7e9f-722509753e2d@si6networks.com> <27448_1575983799_5DEF9AB7_27448_30_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D245CD@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <5b0f37d2-56a3-5f7f-ab29-7d6ebc2367d5@si6networks.com> In-Reply-To: From: Mark Smith Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2019 11:37:56 +1100 Message-ID: To: Robert Raszuk Cc: Fernando Gont , Ron Bonica , SPRING WG , "int-ads@ietf.org" , Andrew Alston , rtg-ads , Bob Hinden , Suresh Krishnan , Bruno Decraene , Ole Troan , Brian E Carpenter Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Penultimate Segment Popping and RFC8200 (Was Re: We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping)) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2019 00:38:25 -0000 On Wed, 11 Dec 2019 at 10:39, Robert Raszuk wrote: > > Dear Fernando, > > Allow me to make something very clear here. > >> And, since we are at it, please let me know if IPv6 is and end to end >> protocol. And, if it is, how does that e2e-ness work with inserting and >> removing EHs on the path to the ultimate destination of a packet. > > > The dream of IPv6 flat end to endless is long gone if it ever was even real. I would have to question your understanding of the term "end to end" if you're make such an assertion. > > There is no end to end IPv6 or for that matter IPv4 delivery today across any network. Regardless if this is private or public network of any reasonable size and service portfolio. I don't think you understand what end-to-end means with those assertions. NAT breaks end-to-end. If your assertion was true about IPv6, then you are asserting that literally every IPv6 packet is going through NAT66 at some point. That's certainly not happening. > > Some form of encapsulation or tunneling is used in enterprises, in ISPs, in SPs or even in largest public clouds. > > So if you think that you can send an IPv6 packet and that this packet will be delivered to its final destination without any encapsulation on the way - this is just unreal. And the sooner you and others like you realize this the better for everyone. > > Think about L3VPNs reachability segmentation, think about SFC/NSH, think about L2 transport emulation of your circuits, think about seamless mobility, LISP ... > > Just a tiny reality check, > > Thx, > R. > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring From nobody Tue Dec 10 16:49:14 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE83912018B; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 16:49:12 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=joelhalpern.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0jtH-jblIqFS; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 16:49:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from maila2.tigertech.net (maila2.tigertech.net [208.80.4.152]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 77DC91200F6; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 16:49:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by maila2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47Xdbq32ZKz6GChr; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 16:49:11 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=joelhalpern.com; s=2.tigertech; t=1576025351; bh=ZOwU0Qtwh7zGfiQO7gNAPZa2YQkn9EtrJ6MYRdOjUyw=; h=Subject:To:Cc:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=BCh/w3ku5OoljunHHtuEl3yhPxOcvac3YWe39czBtk72gUhkNwmNbmGxAI3ENtOjD CbleQFBp4xc1aJlFSXK5mquN751/C1brscwN5cBIqUTX3+pHKZVYe6ABcFFj7O6rsx 44O2/L/M/u/+8b4YRX88Cx+cbhyj4K4F/WeAEYpg= X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at a2.tigertech.net Received: from [192.168.128.43] (209-255-163-147.ip.mcleodusa.net [209.255.163.147]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by maila2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 47Xdbp0QF5z6GChb; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 16:49:09 -0800 (PST) To: Fernando Gont , 'SPRING WG List' Cc: "6man@ietf.org" <6man@ietf.org> References: <17421_1575566127_5DE93B2F_17421_93_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D1A3DA@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <6c674995-8cc7-c024-4181-60b160910f75@si6networks.com> <29345_1576001884_5DEFE15C_29345_229_5_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D250B7@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <89402a30-129b-314f-90f1-ba6efcdd6a88@si6networks.com> From: "Joel M. Halpern" Message-ID: <795b498c-39b9-a3d8-e9f8-77fd53f48e6a@joelhalpern.com> Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2019 19:49:07 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <89402a30-129b-314f-90f1-ba6efcdd6a88@si6networks.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2019 00:49:13 -0000 Fernando, I really wish I could agree with you. But I can't. In 8200, it is clear that the meaning fo "Destination Address" for an IPv6 packet is the value placed in the IPv6 destination address field. the fact that if we had looked ahead we might have said something different does not change what words we chose to use. If I am going to insist (as I have in other contexts) that other folks live with the words we compromised on in 8200, then I have to live myself with the words we compromised on in 8200. I have concerns about whether PSP is a good design. I am trying to write a useful note on the topic. (And without such a note, I can not expect anyone to care about thoughts in my head.) But I can not and will not claim that PSP violates RFC 8200. Yours, Joel On 12/10/2019 6:16 PM, Fernando Gont wrote: > Bruno, > > On 10/12/19 13:18, bruno.decraene@orange.com wrote: >> Fernando, >> >> Thank you for spelling out your comment, plus on the WGLC thread. >> More in-line >> >>> Bruno, >>> >>> On 5/12/19 12:15, bruno.decraene@orange.com wrote: >>> [....]> >>>> This email starts a two weeks Working Group Last Call on >>>> draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming [1]. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Please read this document if you haven't read the most recent version, >>>> and send your comments to the SPRING WG list, no later than December 20. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> You may copy the 6MAN WG for IPv6 related comment, but consider not >>>> duplicating emails on the 6MAN mailing list for the comments which are >>>> only spring specifics. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> If you are raising a point which you expect will be specifically debated >>>> on the mailing list, consider using a specific email/thread for this point. >>>> >>>> This may help avoiding that the thread become specific to this point and >>>> that other points get forgotten (or that the thread get converted into >>>> parallel independent discussions) >>> >>> Penultimate Segment Popping describes/specifies the removal of a SRH at >>> a place other than the final destination of the packet. >>> >>> Such behavior violates RFC8200, which specifies: >>> >> > Extension headers (except for the Hop-by-Hop Options header) are not >> > processed, inserted, or deleted by any node along a packet's delivery >> > path, until the packet reaches the node (or each of the set of nodes, >> > in the case of multicast) identified in the Destination Address field >> > of the IPv6 header. >>> >>> Note, of course, that the reference of "Destination Address" in RFC8200 >>> is clearly the final destination of the packet -- for instance, RFC8200 >> >> I hear and can understand your reading of RFC8200. > > Could you please check RFC8200, and tell me what other possible > interpretation of "Destination Address" you might have, in the context > of RFC8200. > > RFC8200 does not even specify any routing header types. SO...where's the > ambiguity? > > > >> At minimum, I think that we can agree that there is another reading, as expressed by other WG participants, and hence I disagree with "of course". > > No, I argue that there is not. IN fact, I argue that folks have been > following that strategy for way too long, and that's quite frustrating. > > > >> Personally, I understand "Destination Address" as "Destination Address field of the IPv6 header." as indicated explicitly in the text quoted. > > The quoted text is from RFC8200. In the context of RFC8200 the > Destination Address can only contain the ultimate destination of the > packet. Where's the ambiguity? > > And let me ask you, as chair, another question, that will lead you to > the same place: is IPv6 and end to end protocol? > > > The fact that I may claim that RFC8200 contains a receipe for BBQ does > not actually mean that that's the case. > > > >> I'm fine with having this clarified with 6MAND chairs and AD. That been said, the Internet AD would have an opportunity to DISCUSS this. > > For the record, I think this is a major issue that should be cleared > before it can be claimed that there is consensus to request publication > of this document. > > > >> >>> does not specify any routing header type, and hence the meaning is >>> unambiguous (there's no destination other than the final destination of >>> the packet). >>> >>> This is of course in line with IPv6 being and end-to-end protocol, and >>> crucial for other related mechanisms to work as expected (such as IPsec >>> AH). Please also check: draft-smith-6man-in-flight-eh-insertion-harmful. >>> >>> So, in order to proceed with the document, there are multiple options >>> forward: >>> >>> 1) Just remove the corresponding text/behavior >> >> That is indeed one option. But as of today, this is not my assumption. >> >>> 2) Implement a similar mechanism in an RFC8200-compliant manner (e.g., >>> re-encap) >> >> SRH insert is out of scope of this specification. So yes, IPv6 encaps is used. >> We are talking SRH removal. I'm assuming that you are referring to PSP. My understanding is that this function (PSP) is to distribute the (forwarding plane) load between the PSP and the USP. In a way similar to MPLS PHP. But in all cases, this is not about SRH insertion. > > It's about SRH removal, which is also forbiden by RFC8200. > > > > >>> 3) Do the necessary standards work to update RFC8200, such that it >>> allows this sort of behavior, and only ship the network-programming >>> draft for publication when at least 6man has consensus to proceed on >>> that path. >> >> Not the preferred path as of today. > > Yes, it should be evident that it seems the preferred path has been > (starting with EH insertion at the time) to circumvent existing > specifications. > > > >> >>> P.S.: I will go through the document once again... but the same >>> reasoning should be applied to any EH-insertion/removal at a place other >>> than the source of the packet or its final destination. >> >> It looks to me that SRH insertion and SRH removal are to be treated differently. > > I don't see how or why. Both violate the same requirement in RFC8200. > > > Thanks, > From nobody Tue Dec 10 16:52:23 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6DA71201AA for ; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 16:52:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=kumari-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1sS6k4C1RwG1 for ; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 16:52:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qt1-x843.google.com (mail-qt1-x843.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::843]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E274B12008C for ; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 16:52:13 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qt1-x843.google.com with SMTP id s8so4706499qte.2 for ; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 16:52:13 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=kumari-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=mdFXigjPjw6Sd0Bu6P+skI4ulKvte1maasOJSV0uAaE=; b=iPBzM7yQU0LOf1XVm23zB5eVuxvkeefxbPhgvO6vXrmq1wHmvu8I/wp0WV4ft/LZHq XNvVwR3qzh+EznVQYfmWOUluawiUMZa0rUCPhQckQz8hEigYd+ZShYddjWppFgwBICF4 w/zdAa4J3se6bp1tpS9a2m43FyhDFEiw/KlJltwor+jYPmi4+33On1PQEWpXT3CB+ZEG I0gUWAd52xmltzex043152f+IWgibGjINJJVM8qDg06Usw8+/lVbBns1I/wzvcj8Fskt 8nl1YxaRPdn/JKw80EyIbX+lqfTpA+iH2v1u8IyWwuy5mJpYIzMDKGJipIIT6qV38aA8 uT8A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=mdFXigjPjw6Sd0Bu6P+skI4ulKvte1maasOJSV0uAaE=; b=rsVDZp010jD6dG5++LaJSchc4+VRKD96jNhRfTMWlUdrGE+bki+0LfWMfBxGIXYzDF dE2FpdHGAkkyerUf9AimGTJ6U1tIDy5I4cF/st57S/kCpecX1fwgupXV6ZF9FRpCfftn S24hiJe8iMN8lrJu2poam+WJ5Ktn2BTgQ8Z1ucWiy2BSdPQTL8qlkRGwlLhD5EJgOCO0 4ET55PmcaIJTNcQye8qEJbldJ08+vDnLrWy8un3cdWHPeWqsZeeNabwZkjC36thvz3Nf +k/n+N8n4scl0unWAo0OdlxbAZQgn8C6/gqTa6hwL93UlLU5yi/iy36ltLJvfslRm3h4 xvOQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXxxN/2xcA1Nbz4co/mYQJw4iNbsXjo3z9SBn7JVZc6CSyv5wOK CIA/TTj+V4t9MVwE3HJ9xMOnZi3uHiEgZT/ZjtmGPA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyHxlaVdNfaolcChHpBm2cJocfZNtUZDT1WjQko4jGNzFfgRR6uduYi/HZdphyXKGgwY8i8QB5i0ZMNXDS2gCM= X-Received: by 2002:aed:23bb:: with SMTP id j56mr594041qtc.315.1576025532700; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 16:52:12 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <17421_1575566127_5DE93B2F_17421_93_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D1A3DA@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <6c674995-8cc7-c024-4181-60b160910f75@si6networks.com> <29345_1576001884_5DEFE15C_29345_229_5_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D250B7@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <89402a30-129b-314f-90f1-ba6efcdd6a88@si6networks.com> In-Reply-To: <89402a30-129b-314f-90f1-ba6efcdd6a88@si6networks.com> From: Warren Kumari Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2019 19:51:36 -0500 Message-ID: To: Fernando Gont Cc: Bruno Decraene , SPRING WG List , "6man@ietf.org" <6man@ietf.org>, draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2019 00:52:17 -0000 On Tue, Dec 10, 2019 at 6:22 PM Fernando Gont wrote= : > > Bruno, > > On 10/12/19 13:18, bruno.decraene@orange.com wrote: > > Fernando, > > > > Thank you for spelling out your comment, plus on the WGLC thread. > > More in-line > > > >> Bruno, > >> > >> On 5/12/19 12:15, bruno.decraene@orange.com wrote: > >> [....]> > >>> This email starts a two weeks Working Group Last Call on > >>> draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming [1]. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Please read this document if you haven't read the most recent version= , > >>> and send your comments to the SPRING WG list, no later than December = 20. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> You may copy the 6MAN WG for IPv6 related comment, but consider not > >>> duplicating emails on the 6MAN mailing list for the comments which ar= e > >>> only spring specifics. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> If you are raising a point which you expect will be specifically deba= ted > >>> on the mailing list, consider using a specific email/thread for this = point. > >>> > >>> This may help avoiding that the thread become specific to this point = and > >>> that other points get forgotten (or that the thread get converted int= o > >>> parallel independent discussions) > >> > >> Penultimate Segment Popping describes/specifies the removal of a SRH a= t > >> a place other than the final destination of the packet. > >> > >> Such behavior violates RFC8200, which specifies: > >> > > > Extension headers (except for the Hop-by-Hop Options header) are n= ot > > > processed, inserted, or deleted by any node along a packet's deliv= ery > > > path, until the packet reaches the node (or each of the set of nod= es, > > > in the case of multicast) identified in the Destination Address fi= eld > > > of the IPv6 header. > >> > >> Note, of course, that the reference of "Destination Address" in RFC820= 0 > >> is clearly the final destination of the packet -- for instance, RFC820= 0 > > > > I hear and can understand your reading of RFC8200. > > Could you please check RFC8200, and tell me what other possible > interpretation of "Destination Address" you might have, in the context > of RFC8200. > > RFC8200 does not even specify any routing header types. SO...where's the > ambiguity? > > > > > At minimum, I think that we can agree that there is another reading, as= expressed by other WG participants, and hence I disagree with "of course". > > No, I argue that there is not. IN fact, I argue that folks have been > following that strategy for way too long, and that's quite frustrating. > > > > > Personally, I understand "Destination Address" as "Destination Address = field of the IPv6 header." as indicated explicitly in the text quoted. > > The quoted text is from RFC8200. In the context of RFC8200 the > Destination Address can only contain the ultimate destination of the > packet. Where's the ambiguity? > > And let me ask you, as chair, another question, that will lead you to > the same place: is IPv6 and end to end protocol? > > > The fact that I may claim that RFC8200 contains a receipe for BBQ does > not actually mean that that's the case. > > > > > I'm fine with having this clarified with 6MAND chairs and AD. That been= said, the Internet AD would have an opportunity to DISCUSS this. > > For the record, I think this is a major issue that should be cleared > before it can be claimed that there is consensus to request publication > of this document. > [ .. and once again / still with no hats ] I'd suggest that *everyone* read RFC7282 - "On Consensus and Humming in the IETF" - being a Pete Resnick document, it is clear, concise and a pleasant read. Unfortunately it's also descriptive, rather than prescriptive, and so people may take away different things from it, but it's *still* a useful read... W > > > > > >> does not specify any routing header type, and hence the meaning is > >> unambiguous (there's no destination other than the final destination o= f > >> the packet). > >> > >> This is of course in line with IPv6 being and end-to-end protocol, and > >> crucial for other related mechanisms to work as expected (such as IPse= c > >> AH). Please also check: draft-smith-6man-in-flight-eh-insertion-harmfu= l. > >> > >> So, in order to proceed with the document, there are multiple options > >> forward: > >> > >> 1) Just remove the corresponding text/behavior > > > > That is indeed one option. But as of today, this is not my assumption. > > > >> 2) Implement a similar mechanism in an RFC8200-compliant manner (e.g., > >> re-encap) > > > > SRH insert is out of scope of this specification. So yes, IPv6 encaps i= s used. > > We are talking SRH removal. I'm assuming that you are referring to PSP.= My understanding is that this function (PSP) is to distribute the (forward= ing plane) load between the PSP and the USP. In a way similar to MPLS PHP. = But in all cases, this is not about SRH insertion. > > It's about SRH removal, which is also forbiden by RFC8200. > > > > > >> 3) Do the necessary standards work to update RFC8200, such that it > >> allows this sort of behavior, and only ship the network-programming > >> draft for publication when at least 6man has consensus to proceed on > >> that path. > > > > Not the preferred path as of today. > > Yes, it should be evident that it seems the preferred path has been > (starting with EH insertion at the time) to circumvent existing > specifications. > > > > > > >> P.S.: I will go through the document once again... but the same > >> reasoning should be applied to any EH-insertion/removal at a place oth= er > >> than the source of the packet or its final destination. > > > > It looks to me that SRH insertion and SRH removal are to be treated dif= ferently. > > I don't see how or why. Both violate the same requirement in RFC8200. > > > Thanks, > -- > Fernando Gont > SI6 Networks > e-mail: fgont@si6networks.com > PGP Fingerprint: 6666 31C6 D484 63B2 8FB1 E3C4 AE25 0D55 1D4E 7492 > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- --=20 I don't think the execution is relevant when it was obviously a bad idea in the first place. This is like putting rabid weasels in your pants, and later expressing regret at having chosen those particular rabid weasels and that pair of pants. ---maf From nobody Tue Dec 10 16:54:05 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85E23120219 for ; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 16:54:04 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=raszuk.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bmoIHcZYPIqD for ; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 16:54:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qt1-x836.google.com (mail-qt1-x836.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::836]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DE63512008C for ; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 16:54:02 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qt1-x836.google.com with SMTP id w47so4697432qtk.4 for ; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 16:54:02 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=raszuk.net; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=jux0n1il3knLwRVc9WoQn4vtE7pM8yBOef2CaPg5HdU=; b=Rs4miCGOStO9goQ8dUWHjjTbU8dhUVdQRA4tuYv3dujcfh5Qqa4QdLUPtukkuwGlbH r/nMU4ngyv1MAqtooZSufp3INqzJP01DYRcMmqTlw4dCg4kEZKkHrYy7/S+YVfTyRe8Q QeLFddG9wixXPvmTfDlST2OUlqh62CaiLcRnLtCte0INlv4LeP/WUY9iBnnUDHy0FSSK kpcqjzqhD+fzk7KEnM2Jr2U/ijHs7mZlo6BWKKWATvtafxB8wJxhhdM/0+wnr8sXfJnA a498DeUTvoM2q4RPnvkvl3iTSTkIXZhzBm7IUknWKfU2IFxfiQMQYDBjTSTlfBcEtq5y jqzQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=jux0n1il3knLwRVc9WoQn4vtE7pM8yBOef2CaPg5HdU=; b=jwLRCsI/94G/bM7mmGfjRhphCYGqgoBva1XC2YbgEsT9OPDkTLtFItHTxQz9ZC7S5V yLXDwmQLIshkUwSemgGL9ii+Xf4tycdnqeEiFZZLrmLfa9fSBkQeCbvYdaZMP2RBpZtf ntpGFsDJ4tqRefbNT9Hy5KVcePkAXqLv3vv4NQL5o8UuaTc7dzsGLYfhPT48ffPnF36j UXrL2adF40pB9wY131rfA9x37LyU9TvoQ3PnG8VcpvNtoExzaWP23txLmCrMN3VjiWvX gfdAT2Y1miQx3FDYIw/Zr2TRZXzi4lgdvuHukRglHgtec4z3ga0GvYYHmfqJq5osPkVq dHWg== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVuZBfGi6lYlUrLwDh3f6oJxs600ZatwbDaP6w1J/elXrF8v6zo EvypmcgpWuiNqFv9jBlcfshJSTKlS96qCVCx2QOS3A== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzbuwetzjNu6ULLzsd1yrig7+YipH47NwaGDbFBzGN9t6nAIQoDNPQ/BWnO2WFUkrHo4mamSUK+kzMUxU3e3x0= X-Received: by 2002:ac8:5245:: with SMTP id y5mr619066qtn.343.1576025641942; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 16:54:01 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <4255AD3B-379C-45BF-96E1-D3D9141A684F@liquidtelecom.com> <3bce7b18-ea45-d29f-5dfb-1d3258b07d1e@si6networks.com> <80A78F48-9802-4DA9-B264-1A8920C1DDF9@kaloom.com> <885c9ad6-ddd2-392a-7e9f-722509753e2d@si6networks.com> <27448_1575983799_5DEF9AB7_27448_30_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D245CD@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <5b0f37d2-56a3-5f7f-ab29-7d6ebc2367d5@si6networks.com> In-Reply-To: From: Robert Raszuk Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2019 01:53:50 +0100 Message-ID: To: Mark Smith Cc: Fernando Gont , Ron Bonica , SPRING WG , "int-ads@ietf.org" , Andrew Alston , rtg-ads , Bob Hinden , Suresh Krishnan , Bruno Decraene , Ole Troan , Brian E Carpenter Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000008b973e05996310ee" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Penultimate Segment Popping and RFC8200 (Was Re: We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping)) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2019 00:54:04 -0000 --0000000000008b973e05996310ee Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > I would have to question your understanding of the term "end to end" > if you're make such an assertion. > My description of end to end purity of IPv6 is based on Fernando's comments. In his view if packet gets encapsulated with an arbitrary header and if that header changes hop by hop end to end property of IPv6 is violated. NAT breaks end-to-end. > Of course ... and I would agree with that. But if so this entire discussion of quote "violation of Internet Standard" just because outer header changes is pure waist of time. And I think it would be best for those from 6man who understand what IPv6 end to end is to chim in and comment on such emails like we have seen earlier today. Many thx, R. --0000000000008b973e05996310ee Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I would have to question your= understanding of the term "end to end"
if you're make such an assertion.

M= y description of end to end purity of IPv6 is based on Fernando's comme= nts. In his view if packet=C2=A0gets encapsulated with an arbitrary header = and if that header changes hop by hop end to end property of IPv6 is violat= ed.=C2=A0

NAT breaks end-to-end.

Of course .= .. and I would agree with that. But if so this entire discussion of quote &= quot;violation of Internet Standard" just because outer header changes= is pure waist of time.=C2=A0

And I think it would= be best for those from 6man who understand what IPv6 end to end is to chim= in and comment on such emails like we have seen earlier today.=C2=A0
=

Many thx,
R.

--0000000000008b973e05996310ee-- From nobody Tue Dec 10 16:55:49 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80746120220 for ; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 16:55:47 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=raszuk.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xqqgoIc_vyLg for ; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 16:55:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qk1-x734.google.com (mail-qk1-x734.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::734]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C83341201AA for ; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 16:55:44 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qk1-x734.google.com with SMTP id c16so9803959qko.6 for ; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 16:55:44 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=raszuk.net; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=vVFtRd69p0QU/mpr2OFJReq+gpSRQFkcvYWWBuje1lg=; b=Hqn5sZ7t2mPenjWPTImPE3EaViHqeQjRdZJiSY7dv728Pde5lLjW+sYKFB31m3KC3l ql/n760HryLOPDQvlquEzSlotF0K964WItjtqi4PumDv2Q144arfBQX1mhAh6DGvMUdx YuJ6qQPAwQehTBOmNwUxem4j+U+peLqBLBqWqspvHSMM9anyuY02AYIKWcZFYmMbOx1z WOybmSDoyHRarkWd/esD/eSqVd1gnHcQ+KwwS/A//CrdrRjn9pbS53dQbEAg2DCtb9Cv 54ZtyCevtjmhdR8y1vlT4T6IutTk3du7b3dmITaeE/G4nFq5X4pSv6y6E4gtbr1Xsl85 sNCQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=vVFtRd69p0QU/mpr2OFJReq+gpSRQFkcvYWWBuje1lg=; b=ewrwIiXYL5tHpkf/K3qFF4Fw3TwFNy+fSfuTfb4KB/VqETmvSqIGVhaCkJDpROutMd rClGPK3uC8m62LL/cPyBUFVCEGcAbOBdY3hW2veA7lhyvoERkEKYBKDHexTPtXSE+G3S qab8PUqBa1jlMlK/gInUzT0uMvksAIOqcKHMrir4mce+q+UFISReQwm1ZeDQQxnrCSmt MwM+5vaKo7DiSrbr7Dj3npLWSUZrHCN17obp4Ejd9fPxyGEKGlmFMTFa+jDngsSjgs+B MO5h3L7W4YSlje3klbR1YngsCOVwe5mnY3uT2yqNEd0Xy+1fdMbGdsjON+QxMjqPygUs MaaA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWTypONKDk5wOZ0Kx/zWtR0+y4Kg3QbmzVr24pI26xRoVjXywoy AVDX/lS/Io6x1bSMl4h2zVQKDJkVXNurOrGkDl9GZQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxMLfRro/+gg4yHXEU3TDIMw220LLHn7wpvHZcU9wpdgvVfGi4jP5ddp7Z58CZsbFwEHREisVRxn4Eh3lFh1fM= X-Received: by 2002:a37:6087:: with SMTP id u129mr536860qkb.219.1576025743619; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 16:55:43 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <17421_1575566127_5DE93B2F_17421_93_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D1A3DA@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <6c674995-8cc7-c024-4181-60b160910f75@si6networks.com> <29345_1576001884_5DEFE15C_29345_229_5_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D250B7@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <89402a30-129b-314f-90f1-ba6efcdd6a88@si6networks.com> <795b498c-39b9-a3d8-e9f8-77fd53f48e6a@joelhalpern.com> In-Reply-To: <795b498c-39b9-a3d8-e9f8-77fd53f48e6a@joelhalpern.com> From: Robert Raszuk Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2019 01:55:32 +0100 Message-ID: To: "Joel M. Halpern" Cc: Fernando Gont , SPRING WG List , "6man@ietf.org" <6man@ietf.org> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000009b0d2e05996316b9" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2019 00:55:47 -0000 --0000000000009b0d2e05996316b9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Bravo Joel ! On Wed, Dec 11, 2019 at 1:49 AM Joel M. Halpern wrote: > Fernando, I really wish I could agree with you. > But I can't. > > In 8200, it is clear that the meaning fo "Destination Address" for an > IPv6 packet is the value placed in the IPv6 destination address field. > the fact that if we had looked ahead we might have said something > different does not change what words we chose to use. If I am going to > insist (as I have in other contexts) that other folks live with the > words we compromised on in 8200, then I have to live myself with the > words we compromised on in 8200. > > I have concerns about whether PSP is a good design. I am trying to > write a useful note on the topic. (And without such a note, I can not > expect anyone to care about thoughts in my head.) But I can not and > will not claim that PSP violates RFC 8200. > > Yours, > Joel > > On 12/10/2019 6:16 PM, Fernando Gont wrote: > > Bruno, > > > > On 10/12/19 13:18, bruno.decraene@orange.com wrote: > >> Fernando, > >> > >> Thank you for spelling out your comment, plus on the WGLC thread. > >> More in-line > >> > >>> Bruno, > >>> > >>> On 5/12/19 12:15, bruno.decraene@orange.com wrote: > >>> [....]> > >>>> This email starts a two weeks Working Group Last Call on > >>>> draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming [1]. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Please read this document if you haven't read the most recent version, > >>>> and send your comments to the SPRING WG list, no later than December > 20. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> You may copy the 6MAN WG for IPv6 related comment, but consider not > >>>> duplicating emails on the 6MAN mailing list for the comments which are > >>>> only spring specifics. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> If you are raising a point which you expect will be specifically > debated > >>>> on the mailing list, consider using a specific email/thread for this > point. > >>>> > >>>> This may help avoiding that the thread become specific to this point > and > >>>> that other points get forgotten (or that the thread get converted into > >>>> parallel independent discussions) > >>> > >>> Penultimate Segment Popping describes/specifies the removal of a SRH at > >>> a place other than the final destination of the packet. > >>> > >>> Such behavior violates RFC8200, which specifies: > >>> > >> > Extension headers (except for the Hop-by-Hop Options header) are > not > >> > processed, inserted, or deleted by any node along a packet's > delivery > >> > path, until the packet reaches the node (or each of the set of > nodes, > >> > in the case of multicast) identified in the Destination Address > field > >> > of the IPv6 header. > >>> > >>> Note, of course, that the reference of "Destination Address" in RFC8200 > >>> is clearly the final destination of the packet -- for instance, RFC8200 > >> > >> I hear and can understand your reading of RFC8200. > > > > Could you please check RFC8200, and tell me what other possible > > interpretation of "Destination Address" you might have, in the context > > of RFC8200. > > > > RFC8200 does not even specify any routing header types. SO...where's the > > ambiguity? > > > > > > > >> At minimum, I think that we can agree that there is another reading, as > expressed by other WG participants, and hence I disagree with "of course". > > > > No, I argue that there is not. IN fact, I argue that folks have been > > following that strategy for way too long, and that's quite frustrating. > > > > > > > >> Personally, I understand "Destination Address" as "Destination Address > field of the IPv6 header." as indicated explicitly in the text quoted. > > > > The quoted text is from RFC8200. In the context of RFC8200 the > > Destination Address can only contain the ultimate destination of the > > packet. Where's the ambiguity? > > > > And let me ask you, as chair, another question, that will lead you to > > the same place: is IPv6 and end to end protocol? > > > > > > The fact that I may claim that RFC8200 contains a receipe for BBQ does > > not actually mean that that's the case. > > > > > > > >> I'm fine with having this clarified with 6MAND chairs and AD. That been > said, the Internet AD would have an opportunity to DISCUSS this. > > > > For the record, I think this is a major issue that should be cleared > > before it can be claimed that there is consensus to request publication > > of this document. > > > > > > > >> > >>> does not specify any routing header type, and hence the meaning is > >>> unambiguous (there's no destination other than the final destination of > >>> the packet). > >>> > >>> This is of course in line with IPv6 being and end-to-end protocol, and > >>> crucial for other related mechanisms to work as expected (such as IPsec > >>> AH). Please also check: > draft-smith-6man-in-flight-eh-insertion-harmful. > >>> > >>> So, in order to proceed with the document, there are multiple options > >>> forward: > >>> > >>> 1) Just remove the corresponding text/behavior > >> > >> That is indeed one option. But as of today, this is not my assumption. > >> > >>> 2) Implement a similar mechanism in an RFC8200-compliant manner (e.g., > >>> re-encap) > >> > >> SRH insert is out of scope of this specification. So yes, IPv6 encaps > is used. > >> We are talking SRH removal. I'm assuming that you are referring to PSP. > My understanding is that this function (PSP) is to distribute the > (forwarding plane) load between the PSP and the USP. In a way similar to > MPLS PHP. But in all cases, this is not about SRH insertion. > > > > It's about SRH removal, which is also forbiden by RFC8200. > > > > > > > > > >>> 3) Do the necessary standards work to update RFC8200, such that it > >>> allows this sort of behavior, and only ship the network-programming > >>> draft for publication when at least 6man has consensus to proceed on > >>> that path. > >> > >> Not the preferred path as of today. > > > > Yes, it should be evident that it seems the preferred path has been > > (starting with EH insertion at the time) to circumvent existing > > specifications. > > > > > > > >> > >>> P.S.: I will go through the document once again... but the same > >>> reasoning should be applied to any EH-insertion/removal at a place > other > >>> than the source of the packet or its final destination. > >> > >> It looks to me that SRH insertion and SRH removal are to be treated > differently. > > > > I don't see how or why. Both violate the same requirement in RFC8200. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > --0000000000009b0d2e05996316b9 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Bravo Joel !


<= /div>
O= n Wed, Dec 11, 2019 at 1:49 AM Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com> wrote:
Fernando, I really wish I could agree wit= h you.
But I can't.

In 8200, it is clear that the meaning fo "Destination Address" fo= r an
IPv6 packet is the value placed in the IPv6 destination address field.
the fact that if we had looked ahead we might have said something
different does not change what words we chose to use.=C2=A0 If I am going t= o
insist (as I have in other contexts) that other folks live with the
words we compromised on in 8200, then I have to live myself with the
words we compromised on in 8200.

I have concerns about whether PSP is a good design.=C2=A0 I am trying to write a useful note on the topic.=C2=A0 (And without such a note, I can not=
expect anyone to care about thoughts in my head.)=C2=A0 =C2=A0But I can not= and
will not claim that PSP violates RFC 8200.

Yours,
Joel

On 12/10/2019 6:16 PM, Fernando Gont wrote:
> Bruno,
>
> On 10/12/19 13:18, bruno.decraene@orange.com wrote:
>> Fernando,
>>
>> Thank you for spelling out your comment, plus on the WGLC thread.<= br> >> More in-line
>>
>>> Bruno,
>>>
>>> On 5/12/19 12:15, bruno.decraene@orange.com wrote:
>>> [....]>
>>>> This email starts a two weeks Working Group Last Call on >>>> draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming [1].
>>>>
>>>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0
>>>>
>>>> Please read this document if you haven't read the most= recent version,
>>>> and send your comments to the SPRING WG list, no later tha= n December 20.
>>>>
>>>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0
>>>>
>>>> You may copy the 6MAN WG for IPv6 related comment, but con= sider not
>>>> duplicating emails on the 6MAN mailing list for the commen= ts which are
>>>> only spring specifics.
>>>>
>>>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0
>>>>
>>>> If you are raising a point which you expect will be specif= ically debated
>>>> on the mailing list, consider using a specific email/threa= d for this point.
>>>>
>>>> This may help avoiding that the thread become specific to = this point and
>>>> that other points get forgotten (or that the thread get co= nverted into
>>>> parallel independent discussions)
>>>
>>> Penultimate Segment Popping describes/specifies the removal of= a SRH at
>>> a place other than the final destination of the packet.
>>>
>>> Such behavior violates RFC8200, which specifies:
>>>
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> Extension headers (except for the Hop-by-H= op Options header) are not
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> processed, inserted, or deleted by any nod= e along a packet's delivery
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> path, until the packet reaches the node (o= r each of the set of nodes,
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> in the case of multicast) identified in th= e Destination Address field
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> of the IPv6 header.
>>>
>>> Note, of course, that the reference of "Destination Addre= ss" in RFC8200
>>> is clearly the final destination of the packet -- for instance= , RFC8200
>>
>> I hear and can understand your reading of RFC8200.
>
> Could you please check RFC8200, and tell me what other possible
> interpretation of "Destination Address" you might have, in t= he context
> of RFC8200.
>
> RFC8200 does not even specify any routing header types. SO...where'= ;s the
> ambiguity?
>
>
>
>> At minimum, I think that we can agree that there is another readin= g, as expressed by other WG participants, and hence I disagree with "o= f course".
>
> No, I argue that there is not. IN fact, I argue that folks have been > following that strategy for way too long, and that's quite frustra= ting.
>
>
>
>> Personally, I understand "Destination Address" as "= Destination Address field of the IPv6 header." as indicated explicitly= in the text quoted.
>
> The quoted text is from RFC8200. In the context of RFC8200 the
> Destination Address can only contain the ultimate destination of the > packet. Where's the ambiguity?
>
> And let me ask you, as chair, another question, that will lead you to<= br> > the same place: is IPv6 and end to end protocol?
>
>
> The fact that I may claim that RFC8200 contains a receipe for BBQ does=
> not actually mean that that's the case.
>
>
>
>> I'm fine with having this clarified with 6MAND chairs and AD. = That been said, the Internet AD would have an opportunity to DISCUSS this.<= br> >
> For the record, I think this is a major issue that should be cleared > before it can be claimed that there is consensus to request publicatio= n
> of this document.
>
>
>
>>
>>> does not specify any routing header type, and hence the meanin= g is
>>> unambiguous (there's no destination other than the final d= estination of
>>> the packet).
>>>
>>> This is of course in line with IPv6 being and end-to-end proto= col, and
>>> crucial for other related mechanisms to work as expected (such= as IPsec
>>> AH). Please also check: draft-smith-6man-in-flight-eh-insertio= n-harmful.
>>>
>>> So, in order to proceed with the document, there are multiple = options
>>> forward:
>>>
>>> 1) Just remove the corresponding text/behavior
>>
>> That is indeed one option. But as of today, this is not my assumpt= ion.
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0
>>> 2) Implement a similar mechanism in an RFC8200-compliant manne= r (e.g.,
>>> re-encap)
>>
>> SRH insert is out of scope of this specification. So yes, IPv6 enc= aps is used.
>> We are talking SRH removal. I'm assuming that you are referrin= g to PSP. My understanding is that this function (PSP) is to distribute the= (forwarding plane) load between the PSP and the USP. In a way similar to M= PLS PHP. But in all cases, this is not about SRH insertion.
>
> It's about SRH removal, which is also forbiden by RFC8200.
>
>
>
>
>>> 3) Do the necessary standards work to update RFC8200, such tha= t it
>>> allows this sort of behavior, and only ship the network-progra= mming
>>> draft for publication when at least 6man has consensus to proc= eed on
>>> that path.
>>
>> Not the preferred path as of today.
>
> Yes, it should be evident that it seems the preferred path has been > (starting with EH insertion at the time) to circumvent existing
> specifications.
>
>
>
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0
>>> P.S.: I will go through the document once again... but the sam= e
>>> reasoning should be applied to any EH-insertion/removal at a p= lace other
>>> than the source of the packet or its final destination.
>>
>> It looks to me that SRH insertion and SRH removal are to be treate= d differently.
>
> I don't see how or why. Both violate the same requirement in RFC82= 00.
>
>
> Thanks,
>

_______________________________________________
spring mailing list
spring@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
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[24.5.53.184]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id k11sm322448wmc.20.2019.12.10.16.56.52 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 10 Dec 2019 16:56:53 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Hinden Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_E9010039-D109-4658-ABCA-848218B710EF"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2019 16:56:48 -0800 In-Reply-To: Cc: Bob Hinden , "spring@ietf.org" , "6man@ietf.org" <6man@ietf.org> To: Robert Raszuk References: <3e31873a-278a-2154-0e71-4d820bba323d@gont.com.ar> <4012D854-2F10-4476-951D-FFFE73C5083C@gmail.com> <28214_1567694772_5D711FB4_28214_238_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48BFA9F3@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <129bbb32-0f14-b799-430c-8f76fb6b1279@gont.com.ar> <1824_1575998223_5DEFD30F_1824_112_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D24EBD@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <4384c08a-65f5-dbfb-85c7-8365feba9662@gmail.com> <93EAADC7-A4C4-4690-9DEB-27A1F44F4B56@gmail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] SRH scratch space (was Re: Question about SRv6 Insert function) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2019 00:56:59 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_E9010039-D109-4658-ABCA-848218B710EF Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Robert, > On Dec 10, 2019, at 2:05 PM, Robert Raszuk wrote: >=20 >=20 > > Other EH=E2=80=99s allow for different forms of modification, for = example SRH allows for TLV modification, see Section 2.1. >=20 > Section 2.1 talks about segment endpoint and that is where IPv6 outer = header destination address matches the node address doing the = modification. I think it is clear that the intent is that destination options are only = modified by the destination, that=E2=80=99s how destination options, = routing header, etc., etc. work. The Hop-by-Hop option extension = header can be modified by any node as defined by a specific option. > If you stating that it can be modified by any via node - that's pretty = cool. >=20 > Regarding Hop-by-Hop - of course. The same option format is used for destination and hop-by-hop option = extension headers. The option text definition about changing en route = doesn=E2=80=99t make any distinction between destination and hop-by-hop = options. Personally, I don=E2=80=99t have a big problem if an = intermediate node decides to parse extension headers and modified one = based on the definition of the specific EH. I am not sure why that is very useful, but I don=E2=80=99t think it = would break anything. Unlike inserting or deleting. Bob > For Destination Options to allow to define fields which can be = modified by non outer IPv6 destination network elements - good to know. >=20 > Thx, > R. >=20 >=20 > On Tue, Dec 10, 2019 at 10:45 PM Bob Hinden = wrote: > Robert, >=20 > > On Dec 10, 2019, at 12:42 PM, Robert Raszuk = wrote: > > > > > > The issue is that RFC8200 forbids even modification to any EH unless = the node is a destination node in top most IPv6 header. >=20 > I don=E2=80=99t think that is true. The options in the Hop-by-Hop = Options header and the Destination Options Header allow the definition = of options that support modifications. See Section 4.2, specifically: >=20 > The third-highest-order bit of the Option Type specifies whether or > not the Option Data of that option can change en route to the > packet's final destination. When an Authentication header is = present > in the packet, for any option whose data may change en route, its > entire Option Data field must be treated as zero-valued octets when > computing or verifying the packet's authenticating value. >=20 > 0 - Option Data does not change en route > 1 - Option Data may change en route >=20 > Other EH=E2=80=99s allow for different forms of modification, for = example SRH allows for TLV modification, see Section 2.1. >=20 > Bob >=20 --Apple-Mail=_E9010039-D109-4658-ABCA-848218B710EF Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEm0rfRsOCoyamPexGrut0EXfnu6gFAl3wPtAACgkQrut0EXfn u6gPXwf/SXTtJyUg+RGRNGCCaKdzljJhJbGpKZGGSPypMSX86ZFTGzvsFaLeuSTS jiXm6FmGPaJ4E7xfL7swPEzfp4JJYkcfkhzgDBf8WRNzzNewgoSDGV7NhEWd7j5D e9oMVeRiG+pPWxx0jAmI5uxDhXeHEn1B7ZX9ZocwZfUlpDtYWWW5v+XvHfMqvhun 4xXqFFdP7rucVFfcnMU1qnhrDn1HmDoPNjDMCmyLTm/2q3AUCRLES07Kc65OYTgv KILuaYSSRp9ZulzBYztVqV/Qq6zZeMZ5vxC25qvZI8giGOWTHoJWVXBSUOPZ1sl9 ui2IgWEwRYZ1tWx1heJq/5C9pGLxGg== =WPZY -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_E9010039-D109-4658-ABCA-848218B710EF-- From nobody Tue Dec 10 17:07:47 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25E5B12094F; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 17:07:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PyEX-Qdmjp6M; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 17:07:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BB1BD12081A; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 17:07:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhreml705-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.107]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 8CEB0DC881415666E18A; Wed, 11 Dec 2019 01:07:32 +0000 (GMT) Received: from NKGEML411-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.70) by lhreml705-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.46) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Wed, 11 Dec 2019 01:07:18 +0000 Received: from NKGEML514-MBX.china.huawei.com ([fe80::40a8:f0d:c0f3:2ca5]) by nkgeml411-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.70]) with mapi id 14.03.0439.000; Wed, 11 Dec 2019 09:07:09 +0800 From: "Xiejingrong (Jingrong)" To: Robert Raszuk , "Joel M. Halpern" CC: Fernando Gont , SPRING WG List , "6man@ietf.org" <6man@ietf.org> Thread-Topic: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming Thread-Index: AQHVr4Y9y7bOdGmSf0+wYTkkwutc4aezeniAgAAZ9YCAAAHKAIAAiG8Q Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2019 01:07:08 +0000 Message-ID: <16253F7987E4F346823E305D08F9115AABAEB17D@nkgeml514-mbx.china.huawei.com> References: <17421_1575566127_5DE93B2F_17421_93_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D1A3DA@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <6c674995-8cc7-c024-4181-60b160910f75@si6networks.com> <29345_1576001884_5DEFE15C_29345_229_5_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D250B7@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <89402a30-129b-314f-90f1-ba6efcdd6a88@si6networks.com> <795b498c-39b9-a3d8-e9f8-77fd53f48e6a@joelhalpern.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US, zh-CN Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.217.214] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; 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[111.69.147.228]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id y17sm261040pfn.86.2019.12.10.17.10.51 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 10 Dec 2019 17:10:55 -0800 (PST) To: Robert Raszuk , Erik Kline Cc: Suresh Krishnan , Ron Bonica , "spring@ietf.org" , "6man@ietf.org" <6man@ietf.org>, draft-voyer-6man-extension-header-insertion , Fernando Gont , draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming References: <3e31873a-278a-2154-0e71-4d820bba323d@gont.com.ar> <4012D854-2F10-4476-951D-FFFE73C5083C@gmail.com> <28214_1567694772_5D711FB4_28214_238_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48BFA9F3@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <129bbb32-0f14-b799-430c-8f76fb6b1279@gont.com.ar> <1824_1575998223_5DEFD30F_1824_112_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D24EBD@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <4384c08a-65f5-dbfb-85c7-8365feba9662@gmail.com> From: Brian E Carpenter Message-ID: Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2019 14:10:49 +1300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] SRH scratch space (was Re: Question about SRv6 Insert function) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2019 01:10:58 -0000 Robert, On 11-Dec-19 09:18, Robert Raszuk wrote: > Hi Erik, >=20 > What you are proposing IMHO is not needed.=C2=A0 >=20 > Each SR node (Segment Endpoint) is effectively applying new IPv6 encap = so is already doing an insertion of new SRH=20 That isn't "insertion" in the sense of draft-voyer. It's prepending an ex= tra layer of encapsulation, which is indeed just fine and I don't think a= nyone here is objecting to it. The spring draft currently uses (IMHO) imp= recise language, even in its pseudo-code, but if all it's doing is descri= bing successive layers of encapsulation that's fine too. Wasted bytes per= haps, but that isn't an IETF problem. Whether prepending new headers, each with their own SRH, is the best way = of doing service-based traffic engineering is another question. Having ju= st reviewed draft-ietf-bess-nsh-bgp-control-plane for Gen-ART, I do belie= ve there's more than one possible approach. Regards Brian > while maintaining src address and previous=C2=A0 SRH content (modulo up= dating it). That is legally permitted operation based on IPv6 tunneling R= FC.=C2=A0 >=20 > The word insertion has been questioned in the context of adding SRH at = non SR midpoints (say for TI-LFA) into existing "private" IPv6 header. Fo= r this sure one could think of more structure (bypass section) of origina= l SRH already present or addition of 2nd SRH.=C2=A0 >=20 > Thx > R. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > On Tue, Dec 10, 2019 at 9:10 PM Erik Kline > wrote: >=20 > My apologies for raising something that might have already been dis= cussed a rejected, but I'm finding it non-trivial to track this wide-rang= ing discussion across multiple mailing lists. >=20 > Regardless of how SRv6 works now (using header insertion, as Darren= said in Singapore), I'm wondering if it would suffice to say that the in= gress encapsulation node could/should pad the SRH with=C2=A0an operationa= lly determined amount of extra space to allow for header re-writing. >=20 > This would effectively turn the SRH into a scratch space could be s= pecified as able to be re-written by SR-aware nodes along the path. >=20 > For example, if the ingress router new the SR domain's carefully cu= rated path MTU, it could pad out the SRH to some fraction of that, a la: >=20 > =C2=A0 =C2=A0 {segments_left=3D2, last_entry=3D5, [sr_rtr_3, sr_rtr= _2, sr_rtr_1, ::0, ::0, ::0]} >=20 > then permit intermediate SR routers to rewrite all of that scratch = space for router insertion/deletion as needed.=C2=A0 For example, if sr_r= tr_1 needs to route around sr_rtr_2 via sr_rtr_4 and sr_rtr_5 it could re= write this as: >=20 > =C2=A0 =C2=A0 {segments_left=3D2, last_entry=3D5, [sr_rtr_3, sr_rtr= _5, sr_rtr_4, sr_rtr_1, ::0, ::0]} >=20 > If there's no scratch space left with which to fiddle then generate= an ICMP error to the ingress router (ICMP source address selection aside= ).=C2=A0 The rules for examining this header scratch space in the returne= d ICMP error might need to be suitably lax. >=20 > I'm unsure of how this would interact with the HMAC bits, but overa= ll, if this could work then perhaps we don't need to worry about insertio= n anymore. >=20 > Yes, there's more overhead on each packet, but that should be tunab= le by the operator based on things like (1) operational path mtu in the S= R domain, (2) operationally acceptable padding overhead, (3) expected spa= ce required for adding routers for re-routing or whatever... >=20 > On Tue, Dec 10, 2019 at 11:45 AM Robert Raszuk > wrote: >=20 > Brian, >=20 > > Situation has changed since this email: the network progr= amming draft has now removed text related to SRH insertion. > > Please comment on the text if you see text related to SRH= insertion. >=20 > For example: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-= programming-05#section-8.2 >=20 > Why would draft-voyer-6man-extension-header-insertion exist= s if the SRH proponents do not intend to perform SRH insertion? >=20 >=20 >=20 > What Bruno is describing is the new situation after removal of = SRH insertion at non SR midpoints from NP draft under last call...=C2=A0 >=20 > Section 8.2 is referring=C2=A0to SRH insertion at the SR encaps= ulation node (for example ingress to the domain).=C2=A0 >=20 > draft-voyer-6man-extension-header-insertion=C2=A0 is progressin= g as recommended to relax the RFC8200 restricting EH insertion at any arb= itrary node - not necessarily=C2=A0segment endpoint.=C2=A0 >=20 > Regards, > R. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > =C2=A0 > ---------------------------------------------------------------= ----- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/= ipv6 > ---------------------------------------------------------------= ----- >=20 > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring >=20 From nobody Tue Dec 10 17:44:09 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56E81120219 for ; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 17:44:07 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=herbertland-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dt1cHoomunKQ for ; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 17:44:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ed1-x541.google.com (mail-ed1-x541.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::541]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 53347120059 for ; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 17:44:04 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ed1-x541.google.com with SMTP id dc19so17850502edb.10 for ; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 17:44:04 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=herbertland-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=CfiD/xHKRjZcRXAN8zxkP5gZSWW19eNfrNwloTH1KDk=; b=YVxrbC+mtxk8lTdm89BiLBcNifm1GiOVkhVGtRxCvPebZ3U0g2tzQGeAsozqZmZCk2 zyr65PpO4WOaQU5bMazXHmFQPF28n9oJyWXaJuu1E0m8Ycfv+LC3tbD2bgfcTJUcxTbg CcUpUQ0jaWtGVWO+S4T/CW1Bj/5cdwkJh6Dn8E0BL+TeNU6h0LghqJIf7GVjVnNIUv9f zhxlulnAHn/jnr1hLHLot57Gyp93evhRT1A/Pk38FdPoJe5bTa7OwUnIZbLH46JAHni6 J6CbG+5+zX3HKN48gZz+/N9EGMTDqyZqv3q+CMFzOzDFB6l7AONJb7Wmgj+ji0AkL+0/ n9EQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=CfiD/xHKRjZcRXAN8zxkP5gZSWW19eNfrNwloTH1KDk=; b=jC7Vu6gF4YWwkpJGOuxQecdi0ju5cljjkr0cAr6sD1V9INycZmQei06otmxt2qECqu RIQ1lpzbnxlQrqI/9WPjvK8WNJgocQNyfX+SaDbHLzSjM+ngFWDtFT3p1HSlWiBlXGhN dkRbEJJrv2C1qBq4UOGV8UwIrgpclk1g1/NX9TcU5/Wa95j1aZwKRbWe1GoU67+NHaDC 2E32/qscjVLziirEoLiJSE9spWL9UTNinDpos6ggy13Zemm5i8rBCLSps6S8iOd5+0od p2SoFRv2p8Bm81/9ffdGnVWrBOSRSuhhRNrr+To2C7vVUaXFQdeHYorf0LfEL4qoWLL9 BEkQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWS3LQXABpUiebuinaB8+5S2+hmJU4IqiC11c0sOrC1DF73eq6M jyto0z6rVNq7aOc7aL16TQl7jsGGTtjEVDSEetgiag== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyP6vezWBP5JuAwYxvi6unupqyZVcljj2FKUX/dGYSMbvWu91G6ljRxaArMuSiX5I6O8esLCE99x7i3sZwVty4= X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:5e4d:: with SMTP id b13mr603024eju.266.1576028642618; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 17:44:02 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <17421_1575566127_5DE93B2F_17421_93_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D1A3DA@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <6c674995-8cc7-c024-4181-60b160910f75@si6networks.com> <29345_1576001884_5DEFE15C_29345_229_5_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D250B7@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <89402a30-129b-314f-90f1-ba6efcdd6a88@si6networks.com> <795b498c-39b9-a3d8-e9f8-77fd53f48e6a@joelhalpern.com> In-Reply-To: <795b498c-39b9-a3d8-e9f8-77fd53f48e6a@joelhalpern.com> From: Tom Herbert Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2019 17:43:51 -0800 Message-ID: To: "Joel M. Halpern" Cc: Fernando Gont , SPRING WG List , "6man@ietf.org" <6man@ietf.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2019 01:44:07 -0000 On Tue, Dec 10, 2019 at 4:49 PM Joel M. Halpern wrote= : > > Fernando, I really wish I could agree with you. > But I can't. > > In 8200, it is clear that the meaning fo "Destination Address" for an > IPv6 packet is the value placed in the IPv6 destination address field. > the fact that if we had looked ahead we might have said something > different does not change what words we chose to use. If I am going to > insist (as I have in other contexts) that other folks live with the > words we compromised on in 8200, then I have to live myself with the > words we compromised on in 8200. > Joel, That might be the wording, but don't believe that was the intent. The real intent is revealed by some of the earlier text that said (draft-ietf-6man-rfc2460bis-07): "The insertion of Extension Headers by any node other than the source of the packet breaks PMTU-discovery and can result in ICMP error messages being sent to the source of the packet that did not insert the header." That is true, and breaking ICMP is an issue that has been raised repeatedly. It also breaks AH as pointed out. Furthermore, if RFC8200 allows SRH insertion to occur, then we'd have to accept that it allows ANY type EH insertion (except maybe fragmentation?) to occur at any destination address! Not only that, we also need to accept that this would allow NAT devices to insert EH when the destination address is the NAT address. So the possibility that destination address wasn't spelled out as being final destination seems to be an unfortunate omission, but even so, that omission doesn't somehow magically make EH insertion robust or mitigate the problems of EH insertion that have already been discussed. Neither does it provide the rationale why encapsulation with the EH can't be used instead which is clearly the option that most closely adheres to the Robustness principle. Tom > I have concerns about whether PSP is a good design. I am trying to > write a useful note on the topic. (And without such a note, I can not > expect anyone to care about thoughts in my head.) But I can not and > will not claim that PSP violates RFC 8200. > > Yours, > Joel > > On 12/10/2019 6:16 PM, Fernando Gont wrote: > > Bruno, > > > > On 10/12/19 13:18, bruno.decraene@orange.com wrote: > >> Fernando, > >> > >> Thank you for spelling out your comment, plus on the WGLC thread. > >> More in-line > >> > >>> Bruno, > >>> > >>> On 5/12/19 12:15, bruno.decraene@orange.com wrote: > >>> [....]> > >>>> This email starts a two weeks Working Group Last Call on > >>>> draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming [1]. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Please read this document if you haven't read the most recent versio= n, > >>>> and send your comments to the SPRING WG list, no later than December= 20. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> You may copy the 6MAN WG for IPv6 related comment, but consider not > >>>> duplicating emails on the 6MAN mailing list for the comments which a= re > >>>> only spring specifics. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> If you are raising a point which you expect will be specifically deb= ated > >>>> on the mailing list, consider using a specific email/thread for this= point. > >>>> > >>>> This may help avoiding that the thread become specific to this point= and > >>>> that other points get forgotten (or that the thread get converted in= to > >>>> parallel independent discussions) > >>> > >>> Penultimate Segment Popping describes/specifies the removal of a SRH = at > >>> a place other than the final destination of the packet. > >>> > >>> Such behavior violates RFC8200, which specifies: > >>> > >> > Extension headers (except for the Hop-by-Hop Options header) are= not > >> > processed, inserted, or deleted by any node along a packet's del= ivery > >> > path, until the packet reaches the node (or each of the set of n= odes, > >> > in the case of multicast) identified in the Destination Address = field > >> > of the IPv6 header. > >>> > >>> Note, of course, that the reference of "Destination Address" in RFC82= 00 > >>> is clearly the final destination of the packet -- for instance, RFC82= 00 > >> > >> I hear and can understand your reading of RFC8200. > > > > Could you please check RFC8200, and tell me what other possible > > interpretation of "Destination Address" you might have, in the context > > of RFC8200. > > > > RFC8200 does not even specify any routing header types. SO...where's th= e > > ambiguity? > > > > > > > >> At minimum, I think that we can agree that there is another reading, a= s expressed by other WG participants, and hence I disagree with "of course"= . > > > > No, I argue that there is not. IN fact, I argue that folks have been > > following that strategy for way too long, and that's quite frustrating. > > > > > > > >> Personally, I understand "Destination Address" as "Destination Address= field of the IPv6 header." as indicated explicitly in the text quoted. > > > > The quoted text is from RFC8200. In the context of RFC8200 the > > Destination Address can only contain the ultimate destination of the > > packet. Where's the ambiguity? > > > > And let me ask you, as chair, another question, that will lead you to > > the same place: is IPv6 and end to end protocol? > > > > > > The fact that I may claim that RFC8200 contains a receipe for BBQ does > > not actually mean that that's the case. > > > > > > > >> I'm fine with having this clarified with 6MAND chairs and AD. That bee= n said, the Internet AD would have an opportunity to DISCUSS this. > > > > For the record, I think this is a major issue that should be cleared > > before it can be claimed that there is consensus to request publication > > of this document. > > > > > > > >> > >>> does not specify any routing header type, and hence the meaning is > >>> unambiguous (there's no destination other than the final destination = of > >>> the packet). > >>> > >>> This is of course in line with IPv6 being and end-to-end protocol, an= d > >>> crucial for other related mechanisms to work as expected (such as IPs= ec > >>> AH). Please also check: draft-smith-6man-in-flight-eh-insertion-harmf= ul. > >>> > >>> So, in order to proceed with the document, there are multiple options > >>> forward: > >>> > >>> 1) Just remove the corresponding text/behavior > >> > >> That is indeed one option. But as of today, this is not my assumption. > >> > >>> 2) Implement a similar mechanism in an RFC8200-compliant manner (e.g.= , > >>> re-encap) > >> > >> SRH insert is out of scope of this specification. So yes, IPv6 encaps = is used. > >> We are talking SRH removal. I'm assuming that you are referring to PSP= . My understanding is that this function (PSP) is to distribute the (forwar= ding plane) load between the PSP and the USP. In a way similar to MPLS PHP.= But in all cases, this is not about SRH insertion. > > > > It's about SRH removal, which is also forbiden by RFC8200. > > > > > > > > > >>> 3) Do the necessary standards work to update RFC8200, such that it > >>> allows this sort of behavior, and only ship the network-programming > >>> draft for publication when at least 6man has consensus to proceed on > >>> that path. > >> > >> Not the preferred path as of today. > > > > Yes, it should be evident that it seems the preferred path has been > > (starting with EH insertion at the time) to circumvent existing > > specifications. > > > > > > > >> > >>> P.S.: I will go through the document once again... but the same > >>> reasoning should be applied to any EH-insertion/removal at a place ot= her > >>> than the source of the packet or its final destination. > >> > >> It looks to me that SRH insertion and SRH removal are to be treated di= fferently. > > > > I don't see how or why. Both violate the same requirement in RFC8200. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Tue Dec 10 18:03:15 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92F84120059; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 18:03:13 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GmL9XLP0GY8N; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 18:03:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 90A4112008C; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 18:03:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhreml705-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.107]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 2FC66A6EACF6ABCF4737; Wed, 11 Dec 2019 02:03:10 +0000 (GMT) Received: from NKGEML414-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.75) by lhreml705-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.46) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Wed, 11 Dec 2019 02:03:09 +0000 Received: from NKGEML514-MBX.china.huawei.com ([fe80::40a8:f0d:c0f3:2ca5]) by nkgeml414-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.75]) with mapi id 14.03.0439.000; Wed, 11 Dec 2019 10:02:58 +0800 From: "Xiejingrong (Jingrong)" To: Bob Hinden , Robert Raszuk CC: "spring@ietf.org" , "6man@ietf.org" <6man@ietf.org> Thread-Topic: [spring] SRH scratch space (was Re: Question about SRv6 Insert function) Thread-Index: AQHVr5Xub/8HoMVg5kCX30uD56H5DqezSL8AgAAERwCAAAJVgIAAEboAgAAFkgCAAC/MAIAAl0+g Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2019 02:02:57 +0000 Message-ID: <16253F7987E4F346823E305D08F9115AABAEB20E@nkgeml514-mbx.china.huawei.com> References: <3e31873a-278a-2154-0e71-4d820bba323d@gont.com.ar> <4012D854-2F10-4476-951D-FFFE73C5083C@gmail.com> <28214_1567694772_5D711FB4_28214_238_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48BFA9F3@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <129bbb32-0f14-b799-430c-8f76fb6b1279@gont.com.ar> <1824_1575998223_5DEFD30F_1824_112_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D24EBD@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <4384c08a-65f5-dbfb-85c7-8365feba9662@gmail.com> <93EAADC7-A4C4-4690-9DEB-27A1F44F4B56@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US, zh-CN Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.217.214] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 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Halpern" Cc: Fernando Gont , SPRING WG List , "6man@ietf.org" <6man@ietf.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--_com.samsung.android.email_1198074346575740" Message-Id: <20191211021855.732C4120059@ietfa.amsl.com> Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2019 02:18:58 -0000 ----_com.samsung.android.email_1198074346575740 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 VG9tLCBJIHdhcyBhbmQgYW0gY29tbWVudGluZyBvbiBPU1AuwqAgSGVhZGVyIGluc2VydGlvbiBp cyBhIHNlcGFyYXRlLCBsbzhzZWx5IHJlbGF0ZWQsIHRvcGljLkkgdGhpbmsgaXQgaXMgcXVpdGUg aW1wb3J0YW50IHRoYXQgd2UgdXNlIHRoZSB3b3JkcyB3ZSBlbmRlZCB1cCB3aXRoLCBib3RoIHdo 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ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7E2D12086C; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 18:29:13 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jCdjmnDBADgU; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 18:29:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from fgont.go6lab.si (fgont.go6lab.si [91.239.96.14]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CFE2A12080C; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 18:29:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.7] (unknown [181.113.152.47]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by fgont.go6lab.si (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 55153863D6; Wed, 11 Dec 2019 03:29:05 +0100 (CET) To: Robert Raszuk Cc: Bruno Decraene , Ron Bonica , SPRING WG , "int-ads@ietf.org" , Andrew Alston , rtg-ads , Bob Hinden , Brian E Carpenter , Ole Troan , Suresh Krishnan References: <3bce7b18-ea45-d29f-5dfb-1d3258b07d1e@si6networks.com> <80A78F48-9802-4DA9-B264-1A8920C1DDF9@kaloom.com> <885c9ad6-ddd2-392a-7e9f-722509753e2d@si6networks.com> <27448_1575983799_5DEF9AB7_27448_30_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D245CD@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <5b0f37d2-56a3-5f7f-ab29-7d6ebc2367d5@si6networks.com> <603cbb85-3b68-5c93-e7c5-3768e6310f48@si6networks.com> From: Fernando Gont Autocrypt: addr=fgont@si6networks.com; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBE5so2gBEACzBQBLUy8nzgAzSZn6ViXT6TmZBFNYNqTpPRvTVtUqF6+tkI+IEd9N2E8p pXUXCd0W4dkxz6o7pagnK63m4QSueggvp881RVVHOF8oTSHOdnGxLfLeLNJFKE1FOutU3vod GK/wG/Fwzkv9MebdXpMlLV8nnJuAt66XGl/lU1JrNfrKO4SoYQi4TsB/waUQcygh7OR/PEO0 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-0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Penultimate Segment Popping and RFC8200 (Was Re: We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping)) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2019 02:29:17 -0000 On 10/12/19 18:50, Robert Raszuk wrote: > > By your books does RFC 2473 or RFC 4798 or 100s of other RFCs which > encapsulate IPv6 packets all violate Internet Standard I presume IPv6 > spec ?  > > One of us clearly is missing the point. I will let list members judge > which one :) Could you please point at any RFC that inserts EHs or deletes EHs at any place in the network other than the source or the ultimate destination? -- Fernando Gont SI6 Networks e-mail: fgont@si6networks.com PGP Fingerprint: 6666 31C6 D484 63B2 8FB1 E3C4 AE25 0D55 1D4E 7492 From nobody Tue Dec 10 18:37:36 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9270120059; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 18:37:25 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LagdzWyfO1ZU; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 18:37:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from fgont.go6lab.si (fgont.go6lab.si [91.239.96.14]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0FB4012029C; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 18:37:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.7] (unknown [181.113.152.47]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by fgont.go6lab.si (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E0803863F6; Wed, 11 Dec 2019 03:29:10 +0100 (CET) To: "Joel M. Halpern" , 'SPRING WG List' Cc: "6man@ietf.org" <6man@ietf.org> References: <17421_1575566127_5DE93B2F_17421_93_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D1A3DA@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <6c674995-8cc7-c024-4181-60b160910f75@si6networks.com> <29345_1576001884_5DEFE15C_29345_229_5_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D250B7@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <89402a30-129b-314f-90f1-ba6efcdd6a88@si6networks.com> <795b498c-39b9-a3d8-e9f8-77fd53f48e6a@joelhalpern.com> From: Fernando Gont Autocrypt: addr=fgont@si6networks.com; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBE5so2gBEACzBQBLUy8nzgAzSZn6ViXT6TmZBFNYNqTpPRvTVtUqF6+tkI+IEd9N2E8p pXUXCd0W4dkxz6o7pagnK63m4QSueggvp881RVVHOF8oTSHOdnGxLfLeLNJFKE1FOutU3vod GK/wG/Fwzkv9MebdXpMlLV8nnJuAt66XGl/lU1JrNfrKO4SoYQi4TsB/waUQcygh7OR/PEO0 EttiU8kZUbZNv58WH+PAj/rdZCrgUSiGXiWUQQKShqKnJxLuAcTcg5YRwL8se/V6ciW0QR9i /sr52gSmLLbW5N3hAoO+nv1V/9SjJAUvzXu43k8sua/XlCXkqU7uLj41CRR72JeUZ4DQsYfP LfNPC98ZGTVxbWbFtLXxpzzDDT8i3uo7w1LJ2Ij/d5ezcARqw01HGljWWxnidUrjbTpxkJ9X EllcsH94mer728j/HKzC9OcTuz6WUBP3Crgl6Q47gY5ZIiF0lsmd9/wxbaq5NiJ+lGuBRZrD v0dQx9KmyI0/pH2AF8cW897/6ypvcyD/1/11CJcN+uAGIrklwJlVpRSbKbFtGC6In592lhu7 wnK8cgyP5cTU+vva9+g6P1wehi4bylXdlKc6mMphbtSA+T3WBNP557+mh3L62l4pGaEGidcZ DLYT2Ud18eAJmxU3HnM8P3iZZgeoK7oqgb53/eg96vkONXNIOwARAQABtCVGZXJuYW5kbyBH b250IDxmZ29udEBzaTZuZXR3b3Jrcy5jb20+iQJBBBMBAgArAhsjBQkSzAMABgsJCAcDAgYV CAIJCgsEFgIDAQIeAQIXgAUCTmylpQIZAQAKCRCuJQ1VHU50kv7wD/9fuNtTfxSLk3B3Hs3p ixTy8YXVjdkVwWlnJjFd7BOWmg7sI+LDhpjGfT6+ddOiwkumnvUZpObodj4ysH0i8c7P4C5t F9yu7WjklSlrB5Rth2CGChg5bKt541z2WHkFFxys9qBLmCSYDeKQkzLqhCjIUJizY2kOJ2GI MnSFDzJjhSFEh//oW830Y8fel1xnf/NVF+lBVtRMtMOfoWUqDjvP3sJ1G4zgkDCnF0CfncLx +hq2Mv26Uq9OTzvLH9aSQQ/f067BOkKAJKsfHdborX4E96ISTz57/4xECRSMr5dVsKVm4Y// uVIsb+L5z+a32FaiBZIAKDgnJO7Z8j6CV5e5yfuBTtX52Yi9HjYYqnYJGSDxYd6igD4bWu+7 xmJPHjkdqZgGV6dQIgiUfqkU+s5Cv350vK48CMaT/ZLo2BdsMhWsmaHmb+waePUMyq6E4E9x 9Js+EJb9ZiCfxS9exgieZQpet1L36IvhiwByvkQM009ywfa30JeMOltUtfLi5V06WQWsTzPL 5C+4cpkguSuAJVDTctjCA0moIeVDOpJ8WH9voQ4IeWapQnX35OIoj1jGJqqYdx65gc1ygbyx b8vw+pJ9E5GLse5TQnYifOWpXzX9053dtbwp/2OVhU4KLlzfCPCEsoTyfu9nIZxdI2PMwiL5 M85BfjX4NmwBLmPGoLkCDQRObKNoARAAqqXCkr250BchRDmi+05F5UQFgylUh10XTAJxBeaQ UNtdxZiZRm6jgomSrqeYtricM9t9K0qb4X2ZXmAMW8o8AYW3RrQHTjcBwMnAKzUIEXXWaLfG cid/ygmvWzIHgMDQKP+MUq1AGQrnvt/MRLvZLyczAV1RTXS58qNaxtaSpc3K/yrDozh/a4pu WcUsVvIkzyx43sqcwamDSBb6U8JFoZizuLXiARLLASgyHrrCedNIZdWSx0z0iHEpZIelA2ih AGLiSMtmtikVEyrJICgO81DkKNCbBbPg+7fi23V6M24+3syHk3IdQibTtBMxinIPyLFF0byJ aGm0fmjefhnmVJyCIl/FDkCHprVhTme57G2/WdoGnUvnT7mcwDRb8XY5nNRkOJsqqLPemKjz kx8mXdQbunXtX9bKyVgd1gIl+LLsxbdzRCch773UBVoortPdK3kMyLtZ4uMeDX3comjx+6VL bztUdJ1Zc9/njwVG8fgmQ+0Kj5+bzQfUY+MmX0HTXIx3B4R1I1a8QoOwi1N+iZNdewV5Zfq+ 29NlQLnVPjCRCKbaz9k6RJ2oIti55YUI6zSsL3lmlOXsRbXN5bRswFczkNSCJxJMlDiyAUIC WOay7ymzvgzPa+BY/mYn94vRaurDQ4/ljOfj6oqgfjts+dJev4Jj89vp8MQI3KJpZPEAEQEA AYkCJQQYAQIADwUCTmyjaAIbDAUJEswDAAAKCRCuJQ1VHU50km4xEACho45PZrUjY4Zl2opR DFNo5a6roTOPpgwO9PcBb3I5F8yX2Dnew+9OhgWXbBhAFq4DCx+9Gjs43Bn60qbZTDbLGJ/m 8N4PwEiq0e5MKceYcbetEdEUWhm5L6psU9ZZ82GR3UGxPXYe+oifEoJjOXQ39avf9S8p3yKP Diil0E79rn7LbJjMcgMLyjFg9SDoJ6pHLtniJoDhEAaSSgeV7Y745+gyMIdtQmrFHfqrFdjq D6G0HE+Z68ywc5KN67YxhvhBmSycs1ZSKAXv1zLDlXdmjHDHkU3xMcB+RkuiTba8yRFYwb/n j62CC4NhFTuIKOc4ta3dJsyXTGh/hO9UjWUnmAGfd0fnzTBZF8Qlnw/8ftx5lt4/O+eqY1EN RITScnPzXE/wMOlTtdkddQ+QN6xt6jyR2XtAIi7aAFHypIqA3lLI9hF9x+lj4UQ2yA9LqpoX 6URpPOd13JhAyDe47cwsP1u9Y+OBvQTVLSvw7Liu2b4KjqL4lx++VdBi7dXsjJ6kjIRjI6Lb WVpxe8LumMCuVDepTafBZ49gr7Fgc4F9ZSCo6ChgQNLn6WDzIkqFX+42KuHz90AHWhuW+KZR 1aJylERWeTcMCGUSBptd48KniWmD6kPKpzwoMkJtEXTuO2lVuborxzwuqOTNuYg9lWDl7zKt wPI9brGzquUHy4qRrA== Message-ID: Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2019 21:23:10 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <795b498c-39b9-a3d8-e9f8-77fd53f48e6a@joelhalpern.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2019 02:37:26 -0000 Joel, On 10/12/19 19:49, Joel M. Halpern wrote: > Fernando, I really wish I could agree with you. > But I can't. > > In 8200, it is clear that the meaning fo "Destination Address" for an > IPv6 packet is the value placed in the IPv6 destination address field. One could indeed argue that the wording in RFC8200 could have been better. However, the intent is clear, and also since RFC8200 does not specify any routing header type, in the context of RFC8200 packets there's no possible destination other than the ultimate destination. Maybe an errata is warranted. Thanks, -- Fernando Gont SI6 Networks e-mail: fgont@si6networks.com PGP Fingerprint: 6666 31C6 D484 63B2 8FB1 E3C4 AE25 0D55 1D4E 7492 From nobody Tue Dec 10 18:54:45 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4245B1200F5 for ; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 18:54:43 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.701 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.701 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=joelhalpern.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nENjTpIU9LxY for ; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 18:54:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from maila2.tigertech.net (maila2.tigertech.net [208.80.4.152]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E988212006B for ; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 18:54:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by maila2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47XhNd66hYz6GChr for ; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 18:54:41 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=joelhalpern.com; s=2.tigertech; t=1576032881; bh=35uznBzqV6aCgZFQ2VCzD17j+6+Lh/eDei7eK672CZw=; h=To:From:Subject:Date:From; b=WACkjdwJUzIl21S/98Jxyi8RQvKb46aFtYmy3T+5LftUchUsG11hh2ghoKFvdLv6T 2OUjM9zumo8icGY42S3tQDaSuFAhtBer0fIJxOLh4ZqN6Tb/2i6Kms4BDhr4qrTU+J B6brjoDYnO7qWoTLaIC3NI7vDGSfcImYzDetmais= X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at a2.tigertech.net Received: from [192.168.128.43] (209-255-163-147.ip.mcleodusa.net [209.255.163.147]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by maila2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 47XhNd0ksHz6GChp for ; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 18:54:40 -0800 (PST) To: "spring@ietf.org" From: "Joel M. Halpern" Message-ID: <5c2a4b36-0c59-709e-23eb-00f4aa1ce52f@joelhalpern.com> Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2019 21:54:37 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: [spring] Is srv6 PSP a good idea X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2019 02:54:43 -0000 For purposes of this thread, even if you think PSP violates RFC 8200, let us assume that it is legal. As I understand it, the PSP situation is: o the packet arrives at the place (let's not argue about whether SIDs are locators) identified by the SID in the destination address field o that SID is the next to last SID in the SID list o that sid is marked as / known to be PSP o at the intended place in the processing pseudocode, the last (first) entry in the SRH is copied into the destination IPv6 address field of the packet -> The SRH being used is then removed from the packet. In order to evaluate whether this is a good idea, we have to have some idea of the benefit. It may be that I am missing some of the benefit, and I would appreciate clarification. As far as I can tell, the benefit of this removal is that in exchange for this node doing the work of removing the SRH, the final node in the SRH does not have to process the SRH at all, as it has been removed. I have trouble seeing how that work tradeoff can be beneficial. Removing bytes from the middle of a packet is a complex operation. Doing so in Silicon (we expect this to be done in the fast path of significant forwarders as I understand it) requires very special provision. Even in software, removing bytes from the middle of a packet requires somewhere between some and a lot of extra work. It is distinctly NOT free. In contrast, we have assumed that the work of processing SRH itself is tractable, since otherwise all of SRv6 would be problematic. So why is this necessary. Yours, Joel PS: Note that both the MPLS case and the encapsulation case are very different in that the material being removed is at the front of the IP packet. Pop or prepend are MUCH easier than middle-removal (or middle-insertion). From nobody Tue Dec 10 19:33:19 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68FF8120059; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 19:33:11 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id G9VRkrAWaako; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 19:33:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from fgont.go6lab.si (fgont.go6lab.si [91.239.96.14]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 35AC1120044; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 19:33:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.7] (unknown [181.113.152.47]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by fgont.go6lab.si (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7D2C28644F; Wed, 11 Dec 2019 04:33:06 +0100 (CET) From: Fernando Gont To: "Joel M. Halpern" , 'SPRING WG List' Cc: "6man@ietf.org" <6man@ietf.org> References: <17421_1575566127_5DE93B2F_17421_93_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D1A3DA@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <6c674995-8cc7-c024-4181-60b160910f75@si6networks.com> <29345_1576001884_5DEFE15C_29345_229_5_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D250B7@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <89402a30-129b-314f-90f1-ba6efcdd6a88@si6networks.com> <795b498c-39b9-a3d8-e9f8-77fd53f48e6a@joelhalpern.com> Autocrypt: addr=fgont@si6networks.com; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBE5so2gBEACzBQBLUy8nzgAzSZn6ViXT6TmZBFNYNqTpPRvTVtUqF6+tkI+IEd9N2E8p pXUXCd0W4dkxz6o7pagnK63m4QSueggvp881RVVHOF8oTSHOdnGxLfLeLNJFKE1FOutU3vod GK/wG/Fwzkv9MebdXpMlLV8nnJuAt66XGl/lU1JrNfrKO4SoYQi4TsB/waUQcygh7OR/PEO0 EttiU8kZUbZNv58WH+PAj/rdZCrgUSiGXiWUQQKShqKnJxLuAcTcg5YRwL8se/V6ciW0QR9i /sr52gSmLLbW5N3hAoO+nv1V/9SjJAUvzXu43k8sua/XlCXkqU7uLj41CRR72JeUZ4DQsYfP LfNPC98ZGTVxbWbFtLXxpzzDDT8i3uo7w1LJ2Ij/d5ezcARqw01HGljWWxnidUrjbTpxkJ9X EllcsH94mer728j/HKzC9OcTuz6WUBP3Crgl6Q47gY5ZIiF0lsmd9/wxbaq5NiJ+lGuBRZrD v0dQx9KmyI0/pH2AF8cW897/6ypvcyD/1/11CJcN+uAGIrklwJlVpRSbKbFtGC6In592lhu7 wnK8cgyP5cTU+vva9+g6P1wehi4bylXdlKc6mMphbtSA+T3WBNP557+mh3L62l4pGaEGidcZ DLYT2Ud18eAJmxU3HnM8P3iZZgeoK7oqgb53/eg96vkONXNIOwARAQABtCVGZXJuYW5kbyBH b250IDxmZ29udEBzaTZuZXR3b3Jrcy5jb20+iQJBBBMBAgArAhsjBQkSzAMABgsJCAcDAgYV CAIJCgsEFgIDAQIeAQIXgAUCTmylpQIZAQAKCRCuJQ1VHU50kv7wD/9fuNtTfxSLk3B3Hs3p ixTy8YXVjdkVwWlnJjFd7BOWmg7sI+LDhpjGfT6+ddOiwkumnvUZpObodj4ysH0i8c7P4C5t F9yu7WjklSlrB5Rth2CGChg5bKt541z2WHkFFxys9qBLmCSYDeKQkzLqhCjIUJizY2kOJ2GI MnSFDzJjhSFEh//oW830Y8fel1xnf/NVF+lBVtRMtMOfoWUqDjvP3sJ1G4zgkDCnF0CfncLx +hq2Mv26Uq9OTzvLH9aSQQ/f067BOkKAJKsfHdborX4E96ISTz57/4xECRSMr5dVsKVm4Y// uVIsb+L5z+a32FaiBZIAKDgnJO7Z8j6CV5e5yfuBTtX52Yi9HjYYqnYJGSDxYd6igD4bWu+7 xmJPHjkdqZgGV6dQIgiUfqkU+s5Cv350vK48CMaT/ZLo2BdsMhWsmaHmb+waePUMyq6E4E9x 9Js+EJb9ZiCfxS9exgieZQpet1L36IvhiwByvkQM009ywfa30JeMOltUtfLi5V06WQWsTzPL 5C+4cpkguSuAJVDTctjCA0moIeVDOpJ8WH9voQ4IeWapQnX35OIoj1jGJqqYdx65gc1ygbyx b8vw+pJ9E5GLse5TQnYifOWpXzX9053dtbwp/2OVhU4KLlzfCPCEsoTyfu9nIZxdI2PMwiL5 M85BfjX4NmwBLmPGoLkCDQRObKNoARAAqqXCkr250BchRDmi+05F5UQFgylUh10XTAJxBeaQ UNtdxZiZRm6jgomSrqeYtricM9t9K0qb4X2ZXmAMW8o8AYW3RrQHTjcBwMnAKzUIEXXWaLfG cid/ygmvWzIHgMDQKP+MUq1AGQrnvt/MRLvZLyczAV1RTXS58qNaxtaSpc3K/yrDozh/a4pu WcUsVvIkzyx43sqcwamDSBb6U8JFoZizuLXiARLLASgyHrrCedNIZdWSx0z0iHEpZIelA2ih AGLiSMtmtikVEyrJICgO81DkKNCbBbPg+7fi23V6M24+3syHk3IdQibTtBMxinIPyLFF0byJ aGm0fmjefhnmVJyCIl/FDkCHprVhTme57G2/WdoGnUvnT7mcwDRb8XY5nNRkOJsqqLPemKjz kx8mXdQbunXtX9bKyVgd1gIl+LLsxbdzRCch773UBVoortPdK3kMyLtZ4uMeDX3comjx+6VL bztUdJ1Zc9/njwVG8fgmQ+0Kj5+bzQfUY+MmX0HTXIx3B4R1I1a8QoOwi1N+iZNdewV5Zfq+ 29NlQLnVPjCRCKbaz9k6RJ2oIti55YUI6zSsL3lmlOXsRbXN5bRswFczkNSCJxJMlDiyAUIC WOay7ymzvgzPa+BY/mYn94vRaurDQ4/ljOfj6oqgfjts+dJev4Jj89vp8MQI3KJpZPEAEQEA AYkCJQQYAQIADwUCTmyjaAIbDAUJEswDAAAKCRCuJQ1VHU50km4xEACho45PZrUjY4Zl2opR DFNo5a6roTOPpgwO9PcBb3I5F8yX2Dnew+9OhgWXbBhAFq4DCx+9Gjs43Bn60qbZTDbLGJ/m 8N4PwEiq0e5MKceYcbetEdEUWhm5L6psU9ZZ82GR3UGxPXYe+oifEoJjOXQ39avf9S8p3yKP Diil0E79rn7LbJjMcgMLyjFg9SDoJ6pHLtniJoDhEAaSSgeV7Y745+gyMIdtQmrFHfqrFdjq D6G0HE+Z68ywc5KN67YxhvhBmSycs1ZSKAXv1zLDlXdmjHDHkU3xMcB+RkuiTba8yRFYwb/n j62CC4NhFTuIKOc4ta3dJsyXTGh/hO9UjWUnmAGfd0fnzTBZF8Qlnw/8ftx5lt4/O+eqY1EN RITScnPzXE/wMOlTtdkddQ+QN6xt6jyR2XtAIi7aAFHypIqA3lLI9hF9x+lj4UQ2yA9LqpoX 6URpPOd13JhAyDe47cwsP1u9Y+OBvQTVLSvw7Liu2b4KjqL4lx++VdBi7dXsjJ6kjIRjI6Lb WVpxe8LumMCuVDepTafBZ49gr7Fgc4F9ZSCo6ChgQNLn6WDzIkqFX+42KuHz90AHWhuW+KZR 1aJylERWeTcMCGUSBptd48KniWmD6kPKpzwoMkJtEXTuO2lVuborxzwuqOTNuYg9lWDl7zKt wPI9brGzquUHy4qRrA== Message-ID: <6b1beccf-8da8-4933-e376-0edb17c07bf2@si6networks.com> Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2019 21:29:47 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2019 03:33:12 -0000 On 10/12/19 21:23, Fernando Gont wrote: > Joel, > > On 10/12/19 19:49, Joel M. Halpern wrote: >> Fernando, I really wish I could agree with you. >> But I can't. >> >> In 8200, it is clear that the meaning fo "Destination Address" for an >> IPv6 packet is the value placed in the IPv6 destination address field. > > One could indeed argue that the wording in RFC8200 could have been > better. However, the intent is clear, and also since RFC8200 does not > specify any routing header type, in the context of RFC8200 packets > there's no possible destination other than the ultimate destination. > > Maybe an errata is warranted. FWIW, Appendix B notes: o Clarified that extension headers (except for the Hop-by-Hop Options header) are not processed, inserted, or deleted by any node along a packet's delivery path. Thanks, -- Fernando Gont SI6 Networks e-mail: fgont@si6networks.com PGP Fingerprint: 6666 31C6 D484 63B2 8FB1 E3C4 AE25 0D55 1D4E 7492 From nobody Tue Dec 10 20:15:20 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF24F120255 for ; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 20:15:19 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MNxp3x86tXDi for ; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 20:15:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BE6CB120115 for ; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 20:15:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.108]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 6150946CBBEAFC8AE860 for ; Wed, 11 Dec 2019 04:15:16 +0000 (GMT) Received: from NKGEML411-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.70) by lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.45) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Wed, 11 Dec 2019 04:15:16 +0000 Received: from NKGEML514-MBX.china.huawei.com ([fe80::40a8:f0d:c0f3:2ca5]) by nkgeml411-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.70]) with mapi id 14.03.0439.000; Wed, 11 Dec 2019 12:13:22 +0800 From: "Xiejingrong (Jingrong)" To: "Joel M. Halpern" , "spring@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [spring] Is srv6 PSP a good idea Thread-Index: AQHVr85pqRHz/5ypkk2U+Q8DzMRbEae0UE7w Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2019 04:13:21 +0000 Message-ID: <16253F7987E4F346823E305D08F9115AABAEB42B@nkgeml514-mbx.china.huawei.com> References: <5c2a4b36-0c59-709e-23eb-00f4aa1ce52f@joelhalpern.com> In-Reply-To: <5c2a4b36-0c59-709e-23eb-00f4aa1ce52f@joelhalpern.com> Accept-Language: en-US, zh-CN Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.217.214] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Is srv6 PSP a good idea X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2019 04:15:20 -0000 I think it's a good idea. Nothing new, but benefits that people have already said seems notable to me= . (1) reduce the load of final destination. This benefit can be notable for t= he following sub reasons. (1.1) final destination tends to have heavy load. It need to handle all the= EHs and do the delivery/demultiplex the packet to the right overlay servic= e. (1.2) example 1, the final destination may need to handle the DOH after the= RH. (1.3) example 2, the final destination may need to do the assembly of fragm= ented packets. (1.4) example 3, the final destination may need to do AH/ESP after the Frag= mentation Header. (1.5) example 4, the final destination may need to deliver the packet to th= e right overlay service. (2) support the incremental deployment when final destination(s) do not pro= cess/recognize SRH. This benefit can be notable for the following sub reaso= ns. (2.1) A core router may (fan-out) connected with a big number of low-end ro= uters that do not support SRH but support tunnel-end/service-demultiplex fu= nction of SRv6. Thanks Jingrong -----Original Message----- From: spring [mailto:spring-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Joel M. Halpern Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2019 10:55 AM To: spring@ietf.org Subject: [spring] Is srv6 PSP a good idea For purposes of this thread, even if you think PSP violates RFC 8200, let u= s assume that it is legal. As I understand it, the PSP situation is: o the packet arrives at the place (let's not argue about whether SIDs are l= ocators) identified by the SID in the destination address field o that SID = is the next to last SID in the SID list o that sid is marked as / known to = be PSP o at the intended place in the processing pseudocode, the last (firs= t) entry in the SRH is copied into the destination IPv6 address field of th= e packet -> The SRH being used is then removed from the packet. In order to evaluate whether this is a good idea, we have to have some idea= of the benefit. It may be that I am missing some of the benefit, and I wo= uld appreciate clarification. As far as I can tell, the benefit of this removal is that in exchange for t= his node doing the work of removing the SRH, the final node in the SRH does= not have to process the SRH at all, as it has been removed. I have trouble seeing how that work tradeoff can be beneficial.=20 Removing bytes from the middle of a packet is a complex operation.=20 Doing so in Silicon (we expect this to be done in the fast path of signific= ant forwarders as I understand it) requires very special provision. Even i= n software, removing bytes from the middle of a packet requires somewhere b= etween some and a lot of extra work. It is distinctly NOT free. In contrast, we have assumed that the work of processing SRH itself is trac= table, since otherwise all of SRv6 would be problematic. So why is this ne= cessary. Yours, Joel PS: Note that both the MPLS case and the encapsulation case are very differ= ent in that the material being removed is at the front of the IP packet. P= op or prepend are MUCH easier than middle-removal (or middle-insertion). _______________________________________________ spring mailing list spring@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring From nobody Wed Dec 11 00:30:02 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA62712022A for ; Wed, 11 Dec 2019 00:29:59 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=raszuk.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6mCjcuGnPjYG for ; Wed, 11 Dec 2019 00:29:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qk1-x72e.google.com (mail-qk1-x72e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::72e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0D209120802 for ; Wed, 11 Dec 2019 00:29:58 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qk1-x72e.google.com with SMTP id x1so18884196qkl.12 for ; Wed, 11 Dec 2019 00:29:58 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=raszuk.net; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=N6EC+r77RCoadf9Tobelt+AU0hyT1x0Dsjjz04ueFPk=; b=J/vrBfG+VwLy7N7i9yJyIqwltnxRaLheSqNRjVII/V41yveuatKFqKI7Ai5FQektQ6 37iW4xq29f7LdthcaaJzGmTJLE16psIiuPVW2TkVsy5ySduUhIEE76xSEc/125xoXEpp QXJjZC7AylwHycd2gSaFHN6bIhuPoBAujESeohhrQbLMSMXgR5/CaJURDhUyjEWkKKna 5/tmFNL601DhNhBnqFRyvP2veNdY4JZGwpFxbNhZcCdT/NmQHzUj4rsl515Hzj9CTBxM u2CEB1rxeD8CLTgMFZiwMzSgNrypBEN7gjI34555KG0Q4xCKq68AfDWATqLociOpmCDv 6pmQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=N6EC+r77RCoadf9Tobelt+AU0hyT1x0Dsjjz04ueFPk=; b=fjRHlERkc72Yo9xRqADBLU2MTIhJmrzX7irMPtSioL2KFg7Dc2AU4gEOGYiScKmtDz 2Oa+F3e5nCrbFgI4hKcbRrrvIIbZK8gM24gGb5Tmrcf6ooW0hKvZtPs3HjUmU7yeVC4F KfPb/3s9oUu+pl3Wf1Iiwf21R+SGorGZl9xA3J1f1aOt8g0isgcp+H1ayF+6v/DBxlHV uboB9se9L412zRXDLAzO43C2rHejxU3UfHBAObBVPiDFYbItJL+davtUeNhhT63E4sCH iTfVojwAv+dDDyGL8p6t/kEPwHwpF/a5FvHvMmIUdaZ6CLVpKbvq+7ePEml9s4KWjtIi KPRw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWQt8cYMzIQJViScqMqHPdhv8r8Zu7NC2S/0D7qCNC27J38aMtX 0+DFItbx03nyi7RM4SaSogPAeWIyT6NLw/DkVg/oeg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxye14TUu5wBTuD3t2v0nBFXTA51sFBxoCWOBUnfjYIpn4nnz1MX+uq3849PpsU8hODzz6lfpI3q8MT0/55VlQ= X-Received: by 2002:a37:693:: with SMTP id 141mr1771722qkg.134.1576052996973; Wed, 11 Dec 2019 00:29:56 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <3bce7b18-ea45-d29f-5dfb-1d3258b07d1e@si6networks.com> <80A78F48-9802-4DA9-B264-1A8920C1DDF9@kaloom.com> <885c9ad6-ddd2-392a-7e9f-722509753e2d@si6networks.com> <27448_1575983799_5DEF9AB7_27448_30_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D245CD@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <5b0f37d2-56a3-5f7f-ab29-7d6ebc2367d5@si6networks.com> <603cbb85-3b68-5c93-e7c5-3768e6310f48@si6networks.com> <26f2fff6-f6c8-0e9f-29e6-a180896f5a05@si6networks.com> In-Reply-To: <26f2fff6-f6c8-0e9f-29e6-a180896f5a05@si6networks.com> From: Robert Raszuk Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2019 09:29:46 +0100 Message-ID: To: Fernando Gont Cc: Bruno Decraene , Ron Bonica , SPRING WG , "int-ads@ietf.org" , Andrew Alston , rtg-ads , Bob Hinden , Brian E Carpenter , Ole Troan , Suresh Krishnan Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000083df80599696f09" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Penultimate Segment Popping and RFC8200 (Was Re: We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping)) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2019 08:30:00 -0000 --000000000000083df80599696f09 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" RFC 2473 Quotes have been already provided to the lists. When encapsulating a packet I can put whatever EH is defined and when decapsulating the packet I can remove any EH I inserted before. I "own" the new IPv6 header. Very simple. It is like taking the cars on a ferry. Your original packet (call it end to end ... call it original src going to final/ultimate destination) is just a payload. I can not believe that anyone can not grasp such basic concept. On Wed, Dec 11, 2019 at 3:29 AM Fernando Gont wrote: > On 10/12/19 18:50, Robert Raszuk wrote: > > > > By your books does RFC 2473 or RFC 4798 or 100s of other RFCs which > > encapsulate IPv6 packets all violate Internet Standard I presume IPv6 > > spec ? > > > > One of us clearly is missing the point. I will let list members judge > > which one :) > > Could you please point at any RFC that inserts EHs or deletes EHs at any > place in the network other than the source or the ultimate destination? > > -- > Fernando Gont > SI6 Networks > e-mail: fgont@si6networks.com > PGP Fingerprint: 6666 31C6 D484 63B2 8FB1 E3C4 AE25 0D55 1D4E 7492 > > > > > --000000000000083df80599696f09 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<= span style=3D"color:rgb(80,0,80)">RFC 2473=C2=A0=C2=A0

<= /div>
Quotes have been already provided to the lists.=C2=A0
<= br>
When encapsulating a packet I can put whatever EH is defined = and when decapsulating the packet I can remove any EH I inserted before. I = "own" the new IPv6 header. Very simple. It is like taking the car= s on a ferry.=C2=A0

Your original packet (call it = end to end ... call it original src going to final/ultimate destination) is= just a payload.=C2=A0

I can not believe that anyo= ne can not grasp such basic concept.=C2=A0



On Wed, Dec 11, 2019 at 3:29 AM Fernando Gont <fgont@si6networks.com> wrote:
On 10/12/19 18:50, Robert Raszuk wr= ote:
>
> By your books does RFC 2473 or RFC 4798 or 100s of other RFCs which > encapsulate IPv6 packets all violate Internet Standard I presume IPv6<= br> > spec ?=C2=A0
>
> One of us clearly is missing the point. I will let list members judge<= br> > which one :)

Could you please point at any RFC that inserts EHs or deletes EHs at any place in the network other than the source or the ultimate destination?

--
Fernando Gont
SI6 Networks
e-mail: fgont@si= 6networks.com
PGP Fingerprint: 6666 31C6 D484 63B2 8FB1 E3C4 AE25 0D55 1D4E 7492




--000000000000083df80599696f09-- From nobody Wed Dec 11 00:37:32 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C003012088A for ; Wed, 11 Dec 2019 00:37:24 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=raszuk.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oYyOwKqLAi6N for ; Wed, 11 Dec 2019 00:37:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qt1-x836.google.com (mail-qt1-x836.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::836]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7662D1207FE for ; Wed, 11 Dec 2019 00:37:21 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qt1-x836.google.com with SMTP id t17so5556265qtr.7 for ; Wed, 11 Dec 2019 00:37:21 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=raszuk.net; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=175S71gXM/OCP/UK/HodHnwz4ToRtGQXCA83KUzQsE4=; b=V3pOU7eWNH0Q6U+5/AelH7ixXYxI39++LQzmW7YwIt9N2nlqT4sOaW9RP0DknPM9jZ y9yhm9Tsp63BFcfdbVvukkYfwKBqNGFEgm16veOkypXOAKYS6H80n0XUoOcKLazLhvi/ T3qnlEYv5dQUZCYb64uQJEQiy8GAtaIyDZOfXwulYoEo9Z4O20C+55aMC22gSN02D0Nj hPHymj9gu6rb4mbHLU/fWErbPa7XJqh0Tf9jSsHmCVvaoqvQXVahzR04lOv2HuvsGyrZ Z+yXz1Hq32Sg7TYPuJLLbyEl+uFaISMeYrAOmelOjz5ACsc5qWYAsI/L5/HH2LAMCZBk /FAw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=175S71gXM/OCP/UK/HodHnwz4ToRtGQXCA83KUzQsE4=; b=KK3if8V9XkcZcg/S+DVNDdPL4uMVVJrDkpB5TFqNNl0+g/cYcMV1UdH2CHq+sbfzEE F8Hzk/OS5FL/67W7uUJyUlKBEuS3S8uGjyOoM13nm6sKgY7O9PK3Vd92KiDs3lxiELfi PKoolma01I2+D7Wxexs69aciz8F3U6RpqCep4gIfDwxagSc1szKzBYMdyC6B8QoErSTU pNB7s7awmfZZd7p0bDJKCnHILYbTiA+vXK5IOvYJ+dYVQu2pikD6n3I7O30y7xZGa2Ym XKSM9mwFoNboo2LD7Y7IVfbdEGxzn7w5kYfMbdGQPdcqYZI3LeKqls86vNRvJ7cD1tq2 nI5g== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWnWWNYGFkAsb3ABkrEMAlHUuS+hQ6O+Tlrii4QryyvEkRGgDsF E/HXP26WRh/fJYee2FZUqUHaqEdvutrxdMgUzUStwA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqz6mUBfwXCw+A/kVNGsOXuRFESLhRJw7t/E7TOiM9+T8JJfW+MBx5p1eKGai0C7wfMtWRC7CcD8sF4cirGn1ik= X-Received: by 2002:ac8:7491:: with SMTP id v17mr1695196qtq.154.1576053440467; Wed, 11 Dec 2019 00:37:20 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <3e31873a-278a-2154-0e71-4d820bba323d@gont.com.ar> <4012D854-2F10-4476-951D-FFFE73C5083C@gmail.com> <28214_1567694772_5D711FB4_28214_238_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48BFA9F3@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <129bbb32-0f14-b799-430c-8f76fb6b1279@gont.com.ar> <1824_1575998223_5DEFD30F_1824_112_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D24EBD@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <4384c08a-65f5-dbfb-85c7-8365feba9662@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: From: Robert Raszuk Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2019 09:37:10 +0100 Message-ID: To: Brian E Carpenter Cc: Erik Kline , Suresh Krishnan , Ron Bonica , "spring@ietf.org" , "6man@ietf.org" <6man@ietf.org>, draft-voyer-6man-extension-header-insertion , Fernando Gont , draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000776e8a0599698906" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] SRH scratch space (was Re: Question about SRv6 Insert function) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2019 08:37:25 -0000 --000000000000776e8a0599698906 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Brian, > Each SR node (Segment Endpoint) is effectively applying new IPv6 encap so > is already doing an insertion of new SRH > > That isn't "insertion" in the sense of draft-voyer. Correct. But we are not discussing draft-voyer here. I think recent mail threads prove that it is much better to discuss one topic at a time rather then mix three different and pretty orthogonal "issues" interchangeably. > . It's prepending an extra layer of encapsulation, which is indeed just > fine and I don't think anyone here is objecting to it. The spring draft > currently uses (IMHO) imprecise language, even in its pseudo-code, but if > all it's doing is describing successive layers of encapsulation that's fine > too. Wasted bytes perhaps, but that isn't an IETF problem. Great that we agree. > Whether prepending new headers, each with their own SRH, is the best way > of doing service-based traffic engineering is another question. Having just > reviewed draft-ietf-bess-nsh-bgp-control-plane for Gen-ART, I do believe > there's more than one possible approach. > 100% agreed. In fact as you may have seen I have another non data plane, but control plane proposal posted: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-raszuk-teas-ip-te-np-00 Kind regards, R. --000000000000776e8a0599698906 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Brian,

> Eac= h SR node (Segment Endpoint) is effectively applying new IPv6 encap so is a= lready doing an insertion of new SRH

That isn't "insertion" in the sense of draft-voyer.

Correct. But we are not discussing draft-voyer=C2=A0= here.=C2=A0

I think recent mail threads prove that= it is much better to discuss one topic at a=C2=A0time rather then mix thre= e different and pretty orthogonal "issues" interchangeably.=C2=A0=
=C2=A0
= =C2=A0. It's prepending an extra layer of encapsulation, which is indee= d just fine and I don't think anyone here is objecting to it. The sprin= g draft currently uses (IMHO) imprecise language, even in its pseudo-code, = but if all it's doing is describing successive layers of encapsulation = that's fine too. Wasted bytes perhaps, but that isn't an IETF probl= em.

Great that we agree.
=C2=A0
Whether prependin= g new headers, each with their own SRH, is the best way of doing service-ba= sed traffic engineering is another question. Having just reviewed draft-iet= f-bess-nsh-bgp-control-plane for Gen-ART, I do believe there's more tha= n one possible approach.

100% agreed. I= n fact as you may have seen I have another non data plane, but control plan= e proposal posted:=C2=A0https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-raszuk-teas-ip-te-np-0= 0

Kind regards,
R.

--000000000000776e8a0599698906-- From nobody Wed Dec 11 01:27:23 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93AB312081E; Wed, 11 Dec 2019 01:27:21 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.597 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.597 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mB2zGXCGZ8Kj; Wed, 11 Dec 2019 01:27:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from relais-inet.orange.com (relais-inet.orange.com [80.12.66.41]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5185F120114; Wed, 11 Dec 2019 01:27:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from opfedar03.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.5]) by opfedar27.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 47Xs5d5LhGz2yJS; Wed, 11 Dec 2019 10:27:17 +0100 (CET) Received: from Exchangemail-eme6.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.13.23]) by opfedar03.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 47Xs5d4FJ2zCqkR; Wed, 11 Dec 2019 10:27:17 +0100 (CET) Received: from OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::b846:2467:1591:5d9d]) by OPEXCAUBM41.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::857d:4f67:b0a7:10d7%21]) with mapi id 14.03.0468.000; Wed, 11 Dec 2019 10:27:17 +0100 From: To: draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming CC: 'SPRING WG List' , Brian E Carpenter Thread-Topic: WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming Thread-Index: AdWrjZKMyJw/FcG0Qj29O28HuDn7+wEdx33g Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2019 09:27:16 +0000 Message-ID: <28727_1576056437_5DF0B675_28727_92_3_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D261D9@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <17421_1575566127_5DE93B2F_17421_93_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D1A3DA@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: <17421_1575566127_5DE93B2F_17421_93_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D1A3DA@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.247] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D261D9OPEXCAUBM43corp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2019 09:27:22 -0000 --_000_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D261D9OPEXCAUBM43corp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable [-6man] Hi Pablo, authors, The draft has a reference to [I-D.filsfils-spring-srv6-net-pgm-insertion]. This reference is unused in the text and be may understood as a hint to SRH= insertion which is out of scope of this draft. Could you please remove that reference? Thank you --Bruno From: ipv6 [mailto:ipv6-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of bruno.decraene@orang= e.com Sent: Thursday, December 5, 2019 6:15 PM To: 'SPRING WG List' Cc: 6man@ietf.org; draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming Subject: WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming Hello SPRING, This email starts a two weeks Working Group Last Call on draft-ietf-spring-= srv6-network-programming [1]. Please read this document if you haven't read the most recent version, and = send your comments to the SPRING WG list, no later than December 20. You may copy the 6MAN WG for IPv6 related comment, but consider not duplica= ting emails on the 6MAN mailing list for the comments which are only spring= specifics. If you are raising a point which you expect will be specifically debated on= the mailing list, consider using a specific email/thread for this point. This may help avoiding that the thread become specific to this point and th= at other points get forgotten (or that the thread get converted into parall= el independent discussions) Thank you, Bruno [1] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-= 05 ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el= ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been = modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el= ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been = modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. --_000_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D261D9OPEXCAUBM43corp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

[-6man]

 

Hi Pablo, authors,

 

The draft has a reference to  [I-D.filsfils-spring-srv6-net= -pgm-insertion].

This reference is unused in the text and be may understood as a hint to SRH insertion which is out of scope of this= draft.

Could you please remove that reference?

 

Thank you

--Bruno

 

= From: ipv6 [mailto:ipv6-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of bruno.decraene@ora= nge.com
Sent: Thursday, December 5, 2019 6:15 PM
To: 'SPRING WG List'
Cc: 6man@ietf.org; draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming
Subject: WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming

 

Hello SPRING,
 
This email starts a two weeks Working Group Last Call on draf=
t-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming [1].
 
Please read this document if you haven't read the most recent=
 version, and send your comments to the SPRING WG list, no later than Decem=
ber 20.
 
You may copy the 6MAN WG for IPv6 related comment, but consid=
er not duplicating emails on the 6MAN mailing list for the comments which a=
re only spring specifics.
 
If you are raising a point which you expect will be specifica=
lly debated on the mailing list, consider using a specific email/thread for=
 this point.
This may help avoiding that the thread become specific to thi=
s point and that other points get forgotten (or that the thread get convert=
ed into parallel independent discussions)
 
Thank you,
Bruno
 
[1] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-=
srv6-network-programming-05
 

 

_________________________________________=
___________________________________________________________________________=
_____
 
Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent =
contenir des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent don=
c
pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sa=
ns autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signa=
ler
a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que l=
es pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alterati=
on,
Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce=
 message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci.
 
This message and its attachments may cont=
ain confidential or privileged information that may be protected by law;
they should not be distributed, used or c=
opied without authorisation.
If you have received this email in error,=
 please notify the sender and delete this message and its attachments.=

As emails may be altered, Orange is not l=
iable for messages that have been modified, changed or falsified.
Thank you.
______________________________________________________________________=
___________________________________________________

Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden=
tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu=
 ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el=
ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou =
falsifie. Merci.

This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf=
ormation that may be protected by law;
they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele=
te this message and its attachments.
As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been =
modified, changed or falsified.
Thank you.
--_000_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D261D9OPEXCAUBM43corp_-- From nobody Wed Dec 11 01:27:43 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A342B12089F; Wed, 11 Dec 2019 01:27:37 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xKm9j7gSu_ws; Wed, 11 Dec 2019 01:27:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from relais-inet.orange.com (relais-inet.orange.com [80.12.70.34]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4EA4212081E; Wed, 11 Dec 2019 01:27:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from opfednr05.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.69]) by opfednr21.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 47Xs5x6nFjz5wgT; Wed, 11 Dec 2019 10:27:33 +0100 (CET) Received: from Exchangemail-eme6.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.13.64]) by opfednr05.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 47Xs5x2XMgzyR8; Wed, 11 Dec 2019 10:27:33 +0100 (CET) Received: from OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::b846:2467:1591:5d9d]) by OPEXCAUBMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0468.000; Wed, 11 Dec 2019 10:27:33 +0100 From: To: Brian E Carpenter , draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming CC: Ron Bonica , "spring@ietf.org" , "6man@ietf.org" <6man@ietf.org>, Suresh Krishnan , draft-voyer-6man-extension-header-insertion , Fernando Gont Thread-Topic: [spring] Question about SRv6 Insert function Thread-Index: AQHVr5EhFT+If+k8eE2e3gkVprU1h6e0pdZg Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2019 09:27:33 +0000 Message-ID: <11783_1576056453_5DF0B685_11783_221_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D261E9@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <3e31873a-278a-2154-0e71-4d820bba323d@gont.com.ar> <4012D854-2F10-4476-951D-FFFE73C5083C@gmail.com> <28214_1567694772_5D711FB4_28214_238_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48BFA9F3@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <129bbb32-0f14-b799-430c-8f76fb6b1279@gont.com.ar> <1824_1575998223_5DEFD30F_1824_112_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D24EBD@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <4384c08a-65f5-dbfb-85c7-8365feba9662@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <4384c08a-65f5-dbfb-85c7-8365feba9662@gmail.com> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.247] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Question about SRv6 Insert function X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2019 09:27:38 -0000 QnJpYW4sIFBhYmxvDQoNClBsZWFzZSBzZWUgaW5saW5lIChtdWx0aXBsZSBwb2ludHMpDQoNCj4g RnJvbTogQnJpYW4gRSBDYXJwZW50ZXIgW21haWx0bzpicmlhbi5lLmNhcnBlbnRlckBnbWFpbC5j b21dIA0KPiBTZW50OiBUdWVzZGF5LCBEZWNlbWJlciAxMCwgMjAxOSA4OjM2IFBNDQo+IFRvOiBE RUNSQUVORSBCcnVubyBUR0kvT0xOOyBGZXJuYW5kbyBHb250DQo+IENjOiBSb24gQm9uaWNhOyBz cHJpbmdAaWV0Zi5vcmc7IDZtYW5AaWV0Zi5vcmc7IFN1cmVzaCBLcmlzaG5hbjsgZHJhZnQtdm95 ZXItNm1hbi1leHRlbnNpb24taGVhZGVyLWluc2VydGlvbjsgZHJhZnQtaWV0Zi1zcHJpbmctc3J2 Ni1uZXR3b3JrLXByb2dyYW1taW5nDQo+IFN1YmplY3Q6IFJlOiBbc3ByaW5nXSBRdWVzdGlvbiBh Ym91dCBTUnY2IEluc2VydCBmdW5jdGlvbg0KPiANCj4gQnJ1bm8sDQo+IA0KPiBPbiAxMS1EZWMt MTkgMDY6MTcsIGJydW5vLmRlY3JhZW5lQG9yYW5nZS5jb20gd3JvdGU6DQo+ID4gRmVybmFuZG8s 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ZGlzdHJpYnV0ZWQsIHVzZWQgb3IgY29waWVkIHdpdGhvdXQgYXV0aG9yaXNhdGlvbi4KSWYgeW91 IGhhdmUgcmVjZWl2ZWQgdGhpcyBlbWFpbCBpbiBlcnJvciwgcGxlYXNlIG5vdGlmeSB0aGUgc2Vu ZGVyIGFuZCBkZWxldGUgdGhpcyBtZXNzYWdlIGFuZCBpdHMgYXR0YWNobWVudHMuCkFzIGVtYWls cyBtYXkgYmUgYWx0ZXJlZCwgT3JhbmdlIGlzIG5vdCBsaWFibGUgZm9yIG1lc3NhZ2VzIHRoYXQg aGF2ZSBiZWVuIG1vZGlmaWVkLCBjaGFuZ2VkIG9yIGZhbHNpZmllZC4KVGhhbmsgeW91LgoK From nobody Wed Dec 11 04:11:21 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DEFBE120822 for ; Wed, 11 Dec 2019 04:11:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham 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SPRING SRv6 Deployment Status draft X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2019 12:11:17 -0000 Hi Sebastien, Thank you very much for your updates on Iliad in detail! It shows that one vendor=E2=80=99s SRv6 implementation is interoperable wit= h your in-house SRv6 implementation, and the networks consist of those routers are running very well. I think the draft has this info should be a good reference for operators who have been planning next-gen networks for them. Yes, we=E2=80=99re happy to update the draft with it. Cheers, --satoru >>> On Dec 10, 2019, at 18:34, S=C3=A9bastien Parisot wrote: >> =EF=BB=BFHi Satoru, Zafar, >> >> I would like to provide an update to SRv6 deployment in Iliad's nationwi= de network in Italy. >> >> As of the end of 2019, the SRv6 network consists of: >> - 1000 Cisco NCS 5500 routers >> - 1800 Iliad's Nodeboxes >> - The network services 4.5 million mobile subscribers (as of Q3 2019) >> - The network is carrying 300 Gbps of commercial traffic at peak hours >> - It is expected to grow to more than 4000 Nodeboxes in 2020. >> >> The following SRv6 features have been deployed: >> - A Segment Routing Header based data plane >> - End (PSP), End.X (PSP), End.DT4, T.Encaps.Red, T.Insert.Red functions >> - BGP VPN SRv6 extensions >> - ISIS SRv6 extensions >> - SRH-based Topology Independent (TI-LFA) Fast Reroute mechanisms >> - Support for ping and traceroute >> >> Can you please update the SRv6 deployment draft accordingly? >> >> Thanks, >> S=C3=A9bastien >> >> ----- Mail original ----- >> De: "Zafar Ali, zali" >> =C3=80: "Tadas Planciunas" , "SPRING WG List" , "=E6=9D=BE=E5=B6=8B=E8=81=A1" >> >> Cc: "Jonas Simanavicius" , "Pablo Camarillo, pcamari= l" , "Zafar Ali, zali" >> >> Envoy=C3=A9: Vendredi 6 D=C3=A9cembre 2019 20:16:20 >> Objet: Re: [spring] SPRING SRv6 Deployment Status draft > >> Hi Tadas , >> >> Many thanks for sharing the SRv6 deployment in a nationwide backbone net= work! >> >> It will be our pleasure to include the text provided by you in the next = revision >> of the SRv6 deployment draft. >> >> We can publish it during the next week. >> >> Have a great weekend! >> >> Thanks >> >> Regards =E2=80=A6 Zafar >> >> From: Tadas Planciunas >> Date: Friday, December 6, 2019 at 2:07 AM >> To: "spring@ietf.org" , "satoru.matsushima@g.softbank.c= o.jp" >> , "Zafar Ali (zali)" >> Cc: Jonas Simanavicius , "Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)= " >> >> Subject: [spring] SPRING SRv6 Deployment Status draft >> >> Hi Zefar, Satoru, >> >> In the next draft of [ >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-matsushima-spring-srv6-deployment= -status/ >> | >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-matsushima-spring-srv6-deployment= -status/ >> ] , we'd like to be added to the section =E2=80=9C2. Deployment Status= =E2=80=9D as we have >> significant progress on our SRv6 deployment: >> >> NOIA Network ( [ https://noia.network/ | https://noia.network ] ) >> >> NOIA Network is Internet Technology company creating a cutting-edge SRv6= stack >> implementation and backbone for managing private and distributed mesh ne= tworks. >> >> Our software deployment consists of Orchestration, Analytics, Agent, Con= troller, >> Business Intelligence (AI) and several product Interfaces to access the >> network. >> >> Project whitepaper and tokenomics model can be found here: [ >> https://noia.network/programmable-internet-whitepaper | >> https://noia.network/programmable-internet-whitepaper ] and [ >> https://noia.network/tokenomics-whitepaper | >> https://noia.network/tokenomics-whitepaper ] >> >> NOIA Network have deployed a nationwide SRv6 network backbone. The SRv6 = backbone >> is based on white box or cloud routers with FD.io VPP or Linux srext mod= ule >> installed. >> >> The following SRv6 features have been deployed: >> >> * A Segment Routing Header [I-D.ietf-6man-segment-routing-header] base= d data >> plane. >> * END , END.X, END.DT4, End.DT6 functions as per >> [I-D.filsfils-spring-srv6-network-programming]. >> * iOAM Proof of Transit and Trace options as per [I-D.ietf-ippm-ioam-d= ata]. >> * BFD for Multihop Paths as per [I-D.ietf-bfd-multihop]. >> * Topology Independent (TI-LFA) Fast Reroute mechanisms leveraging >> * SRv6 for the O(50msec) protection against node and link, as describe= d in >> [I-D.ietf-rtgwg-segment-routing-ti-lfa]. >> >> Thank you. >> >> -- >> >> Pagarbiai / Regards >> >> IT Manager, Dev Lead @ NOIA Network >> >> +370 614 68669 >> >> [ https://noia.network/ | https://noia.network/ ] > > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring From nobody Wed Dec 11 06:15:47 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E4FE12000F for ; Wed, 11 Dec 2019 06:15:44 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=joelhalpern.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id itDeYUd0SDz3 for ; Wed, 11 Dec 2019 06:15:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from maila2.tigertech.net (maila2.tigertech.net [208.80.4.152]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D18E7120041 for ; Wed, 11 Dec 2019 06:15:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by maila2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47XzVQ5RQWz6GCj8 for ; Wed, 11 Dec 2019 06:15:42 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=joelhalpern.com; s=2.tigertech; t=1576073742; bh=05p47yL93lxQMdCcj/713fCuFjtT2AWZisDgvETlFFs=; h=Subject:To:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=GW5uhbx54SjQwfKi2IxItBZk9EgYQfZJZfz3fApozan+2tNm1H9+wgqUrotGtNNIk BAT2xhkPINsivTiB6oI9yS2X67ONVNer79IWBAaKDvOXVCIT7Djqiytdxcos6vp/zl 4qryhAse4UqwcxNA5j8CLBMT2HlXG4Mt6vK9AWFk= X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at a2.tigertech.net Received: from [192.168.128.43] (209-255-163-147.ip.mcleodusa.net [209.255.163.147]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by maila2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 47XzVQ232Pz6G86Z for ; Wed, 11 Dec 2019 06:15:41 -0800 (PST) To: "spring@ietf.org" References: <5c2a4b36-0c59-709e-23eb-00f4aa1ce52f@joelhalpern.com> <16253F7987E4F346823E305D08F9115AABAEB42B@nkgeml514-mbx.china.huawei.com> From: "Joel M. Halpern" Message-ID: Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2019 09:15:37 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <16253F7987E4F346823E305D08F9115AABAEB42B@nkgeml514-mbx.china.huawei.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Is srv6 PSP a good idea X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2019 14:15:45 -0000 Thank you Jingrong for providing some of the other motivations. Two furhter comments. As far as I know, the only savings on the end box is the processing for noticing the SRH, noticing that SL is 0 and there are no relevant TLVs, and then moving on. If the actual end device is not part of the SR domain, I assume that encapsulation would have been used, so I think it is reasoanble to assume that in the PSP case the end device is SR capable. Do you have any comments on what appears to be the significant increase in complexity on the device performing PSP? The question I am trying to get at is about the tradeoff, which needs one to evaluate both sides. Yours, Joel On 12/10/2019 11:13 PM, Xiejingrong (Jingrong) wrote: > I think it's a good idea. > Nothing new, but benefits that people have already said seems notable to me. > > (1) reduce the load of final destination. This benefit can be notable for the following sub reasons. > (1.1) final destination tends to have heavy load. It need to handle all the EHs and do the delivery/demultiplex the packet to the right overlay service. > (1.2) example 1, the final destination may need to handle the DOH after the RH. > (1.3) example 2, the final destination may need to do the assembly of fragmented packets. > (1.4) example 3, the final destination may need to do AH/ESP after the Fragmentation Header. > (1.5) example 4, the final destination may need to deliver the packet to the right overlay service. > > (2) support the incremental deployment when final destination(s) do not process/recognize SRH. This benefit can be notable for the following sub reasons. > (2.1) A core router may (fan-out) connected with a big number of low-end routers that do not support SRH but support tunnel-end/service-demultiplex function of SRv6. > > Thanks > Jingrong > > -----Original Message----- > From: spring [mailto:spring-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Joel M. Halpern > Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2019 10:55 AM > To: spring@ietf.org > Subject: [spring] Is srv6 PSP a good idea > > For purposes of this thread, even if you think PSP violates RFC 8200, let us assume that it is legal. > > As I understand it, the PSP situation is: > o the packet arrives at the place (let's not argue about whether SIDs are locators) identified by the SID in the destination address field o that SID is the next to last SID in the SID list o that sid is marked as / known to be PSP o at the intended place in the processing pseudocode, the last (first) entry in the SRH is copied into the destination IPv6 address field of the packet > -> The SRH being used is then removed from the packet. > > In order to evaluate whether this is a good idea, we have to have some idea of the benefit. It may be that I am missing some of the benefit, and I would appreciate clarification. > As far as I can tell, the benefit of this removal is that in exchange for this node doing the work of removing the SRH, the final node in the SRH does not have to process the SRH at all, as it has been removed. > > I have trouble seeing how that work tradeoff can be beneficial. > Removing bytes from the middle of a packet is a complex operation. > Doing so in Silicon (we expect this to be done in the fast path of significant forwarders as I understand it) requires very special provision. Even in software, removing bytes from the middle of a packet requires somewhere between some and a lot of extra work. It is distinctly NOT free. > > In contrast, we have assumed that the work of processing SRH itself is tractable, since otherwise all of SRv6 would be problematic. So why is this necessary. > > Yours, > Joel > > PS: Note that both the MPLS case and the encapsulation case are very different in that the material being removed is at the front of the IP packet. Pop or prepend are MUCH easier than middle-removal (or middle-insertion). > > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > From nobody Wed Dec 11 10:37:46 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C7C2120820; Wed, 11 Dec 2019 10:37:45 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fpTclD6_8j7k; Wed, 11 Dec 2019 10:37:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from relais-inet.orange.com (relais-inet.orange.com [80.12.66.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 77B17120273; Wed, 11 Dec 2019 10:37:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from opfedar02.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.4]) by opfedar27.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 47Y5Jh64wwz2xbk; Wed, 11 Dec 2019 19:37:40 +0100 (CET) Received: from Exchangemail-eme6.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.13.98]) by opfedar02.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 47Y5Jh50n5zCqkN; Wed, 11 Dec 2019 19:37:40 +0100 (CET) Received: from OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::b846:2467:1591:5d9d]) by OPEXCAUBM7F.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0468.000; Wed, 11 Dec 2019 19:37:40 +0100 From: To: Fernando Gont CC: "6man@ietf.org" <6man@ietf.org>, draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming , 'SPRING WG List' Thread-Topic: WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming Thread-Index: AQHVr6/gu47LULL9/kmX/JINTbJfCqe1OpUQ Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2019 18:37:39 +0000 Message-ID: <16536_1576089460_5DF13774_16536_366_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D273AD@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <17421_1575566127_5DE93B2F_17421_93_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D1A3DA@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <6c674995-8cc7-c024-4181-60b160910f75@si6networks.com> <29345_1576001884_5DEFE15C_29345_229_5_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D250B7@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <89402a30-129b-314f-90f1-ba6efcdd6a88@si6networks.com> In-Reply-To: <89402a30-129b-314f-90f1-ba6efcdd6a88@si6networks.com> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.245] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2019 18:37:45 -0000 RmVybmFuZG8sDQoNCj4gRnJvbTogRmVybmFuZG8gR29udCBbbWFpbHRvOmZnb250QHNpNm5ldHdv cmtzLmNvbV0gDQo+IFNlbnQ6IFdlZG5lc2RheSwgRGVjZW1iZXIgMTEsIDIwMTkgMTI6MTYgQU0N Cj4gDQo+IEJydW5vLA0KPiANCj4gT24gMTAvMTIvMTkgMTM6MTgsIGJydW5vLmRlY3JhZW5lQG9y YW5nZS5jb20gd3JvdGU6DQo+ID4gRmVybmFuZG8sDQo+ID4gDQo+ID4gVGhhbmsgeW91IGZvciBz cGVsbGluZyBvdXQgeW91ciBjb21tZW50LCBwbHVzIG9uIHRoZSBXR0xDIHRocmVhZC4NCj4gPiBN b3JlIGluLWxpbmUNCj4gPiANCj4gPj4gQnJ1bm8sDQo+ID4+DQo+ID4+IE9uIDUvMTIvMTkgMTI6 MTUsIGJydW5vLmRlY3JhZW5lQG9yYW5nZS5jb20gd3JvdGU6DQo+ID4+IFsuLi4uXT4NCj4gPj4+ IFRoaXMgZW1haWwgc3RhcnRzIGEgdHdvIHdlZWtzIFdvcmtpbmcgR3JvdXAgTGFzdCBDYWxsIG9u DQo+ID4+PiBkcmFmdC1pZXRmLXNwcmluZy1zcnY2LW5ldHdvcmstcHJvZ3JhbW1pbmcgWzFdLg0K 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[111.69.147.228]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id w200sm3969379pfc.93.2019.12.11.11.36.54 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 11 Dec 2019 11:36:58 -0800 (PST) To: Robert Raszuk , Fernando Gont Cc: Bruno Decraene , Ron Bonica , SPRING WG , "int-ads@ietf.org" , Andrew Alston , rtg-ads , Bob Hinden , Ole Troan , Suresh Krishnan References: <80A78F48-9802-4DA9-B264-1A8920C1DDF9@kaloom.com> <885c9ad6-ddd2-392a-7e9f-722509753e2d@si6networks.com> <27448_1575983799_5DEF9AB7_27448_30_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D245CD@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <5b0f37d2-56a3-5f7f-ab29-7d6ebc2367d5@si6networks.com> <603cbb85-3b68-5c93-e7c5-3768e6310f48@si6networks.com> <26f2fff6-f6c8-0e9f-29e6-a180896f5a05@si6networks.com> From: Brian E Carpenter Message-ID: Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2019 08:36:53 +1300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Penultimate Segment Popping and RFC8200 (Was Re: We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping)) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2019 19:37:02 -0000 Robert, On 11-Dec-19 21:29, Robert Raszuk wrote: >=20 > RFC 2473=C2=A0=C2=A0 >=20 > Quotes have been already provided to the lists.=C2=A0 >=20 > When encapsulating a packet I can put whatever EH is defined and when d= ecapsulating the packet I can remove any EH I inserted before. I "own" th= e new IPv6 header. Very simple. It is like taking the cars on a ferry.=C2= =A0 >=20 > Your original packet (call it end to end ... call it original src going= to final/ultimate destination) is just a payload.=C2=A0 >=20 > I can not believe that anyone can not grasp such basic concept.=20 I think everyone grasps it. I think the problem is that the SRH proponent= s use the word "insert" a little ambiguously. In IPv6-land, it's been assum= ed to mean "insert an SRH header in the middle of an existing IPv6 packet he= ader". I suspect that in SRH-land, and in the IPv6 data plane context, it's main= ly being used to mean "encapsulate an IPv6 packet in a new IPv6 packet that = includes an SRH header." And in the MPLS data plane context it means "prepend an a= dditional MPLS label." Right or wrong? Brian >=20 >=20 >=20 > On Wed, Dec 11, 2019 at 3:29 AM Fernando Gont > wrote: >=20 > On 10/12/19 18:50, Robert Raszuk wrote: > > > > By your books does RFC 2473 or RFC 4798 or 100s of other RFCs whi= ch > > encapsulate IPv6 packets all violate Internet Standard I presume = IPv6 > > spec ?=C2=A0 > > > > One of us clearly is missing the point. I will let list members j= udge > > which one :) >=20 > Could you please point at any RFC that inserts EHs or deletes EHs a= t any > place in the network other than the source or the ultimate destinat= ion? >=20 > --=20 > Fernando Gont > SI6 Networks > e-mail: fgont@si6networks.com > PGP Fingerprint: 6666 31C6 D484 63B2 8FB1 E3C4 AE25 0D55 1D4E 7492 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 From nobody Wed Dec 11 11:48:38 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C40B6120058; Wed, 11 Dec 2019 11:48:36 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Tc93nufUYtV9; Wed, 11 Dec 2019 11:48:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from relais-inet.orange.com (relais-inet.orange.com [80.12.66.41]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 25B5B120052; Wed, 11 Dec 2019 11:48:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from opfedar00.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.11]) by opfedar27.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 47Y6tQ5bDDz2xsW; Wed, 11 Dec 2019 20:48:30 +0100 (CET) Received: from Exchangemail-eme6.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.13.79]) by opfedar00.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 47Y6tQ3N8WzCqjh; Wed, 11 Dec 2019 20:48:30 +0100 (CET) Received: from OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::b846:2467:1591:5d9d]) by OPEXCAUBM6E.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::d89a:9017:59c2:9724%21]) with mapi id 14.03.0468.000; Wed, 11 Dec 2019 20:48:30 +0100 From: To: Fernando Gont CC: Ron Bonica , SPRING WG , "int-ads@ietf.org" , Andrew Alston , rtg-ads , Bob Hinden , Brian E Carpenter , "Ole Troan" , Suresh Krishnan , "Robert Raszuk" Thread-Topic: [spring] Penultimate Segment Popping and RFC8200 (Was Re: We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping)) Thread-Index: AQHVr7Em2MnGLGl0W0OjfSwvUTZbJKe1RMwA Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2019 19:48:30 +0000 Message-ID: <1557_1576093710_5DF1480E_1557_460_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D27673@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <4255AD3B-379C-45BF-96E1-D3D9141A684F@liquidtelecom.com> <3bce7b18-ea45-d29f-5dfb-1d3258b07d1e@si6networks.com> <80A78F48-9802-4DA9-B264-1A8920C1DDF9@kaloom.com> <885c9ad6-ddd2-392a-7e9f-722509753e2d@si6networks.com> <27448_1575983799_5DEF9AB7_27448_30_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D245CD@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <5b0f37d2-56a3-5f7f-ab29-7d6ebc2367d5@si6networks.com> In-Reply-To: <5b0f37d2-56a3-5f7f-ab29-7d6ebc2367d5@si6networks.com> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.245] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Penultimate Segment Popping and RFC8200 (Was Re: We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping)) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2019 19:48:37 -0000 RmVybmFuZG8sDQoNCj4gRnJvbTogRmVybmFuZG8gR29udCBbbWFpbHRvOmZnb250QHNpNm5ldHdv cmtzLmNvbV0gDQo+IFNlbnQ6IFdlZG5lc2RheSwgRGVjZW1iZXIgMTEsIDIwMTkgMTI6MjUgQU0N Cj4gDQo+IE9uIDEwLzEyLzE5IDA4OjE2LCBicnVuby5kZWNyYWVuZUBvcmFuZ2UuY29tIHdyb3Rl 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cmNpLgoKVGhpcyBtZXNzYWdlIGFuZCBpdHMgYXR0YWNobWVudHMgbWF5IGNvbnRhaW4gY29uZmlk ZW50aWFsIG9yIHByaXZpbGVnZWQgaW5mb3JtYXRpb24gdGhhdCBtYXkgYmUgcHJvdGVjdGVkIGJ5 IGxhdzsKdGhleSBzaG91bGQgbm90IGJlIGRpc3RyaWJ1dGVkLCB1c2VkIG9yIGNvcGllZCB3aXRo b3V0IGF1dGhvcmlzYXRpb24uCklmIHlvdSBoYXZlIHJlY2VpdmVkIHRoaXMgZW1haWwgaW4gZXJy b3IsIHBsZWFzZSBub3RpZnkgdGhlIHNlbmRlciBhbmQgZGVsZXRlIHRoaXMgbWVzc2FnZSBhbmQg aXRzIGF0dGFjaG1lbnRzLgpBcyBlbWFpbHMgbWF5IGJlIGFsdGVyZWQsIE9yYW5nZSBpcyBub3Qg bGlhYmxlIGZvciBtZXNzYWdlcyB0aGF0IGhhdmUgYmVlbiBtb2RpZmllZCwgY2hhbmdlZCBvciBm YWxzaWZpZWQuClRoYW5rIHlvdS4KCg== From nobody Wed Dec 11 11:54:46 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietf.org Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3183120052; Wed, 11 Dec 2019 11:54:45 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: spring@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.113.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: spring@ietf.org Message-ID: <157609408568.11496.11799785813274132900@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2019 11:54:45 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [spring] I-D Action: draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-06.txt X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2019 19:54:46 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Source Packet Routing in Networking WG of the IETF. Title : SRv6 Network Programming Authors : Clarence Filsfils Pablo Camarillo Garvia John Leddy Daniel Voyer Satoru Matsushima Zhenbin Li Filename : draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-06.txt Pages : 39 Date : 2019-12-11 Abstract: The SRv6 Network Programming framework enables a network operator or an application to specify a packet packet processing program by encoding a sequence of instructions in the IPv6 packet header. Each instruction is implemented on one or several nodes in the network and identified by an SRv6 Segment Identifier in the packet. This document defines the SRv6 Network Programming concept and specifies the base set of SRv6 behaviors that enables the creation of interoperable overlays with underlay optimization (Service Level Agreements). The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-06 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-06 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-06 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. 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Dec 2019 20:04:11 +0000 From: "Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)" To: Brian E Carpenter , "bruno.decraene@orange.com" , Fernando Gont CC: Ron Bonica , "spring@ietf.org" , "6man@ietf.org" <6man@ietf.org>, Suresh Krishnan , draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming Thread-Topic: [spring] Question about SRv6 Insert function Thread-Index: AQHVXxis/gF6F9KunkOxVqkDbflgtacT7YMwgAFf0ICAA0V6AIABQWiAgANe6oCAlbReAIABVZmAgAAm8oCAAiAsgA== Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2019 20:04:11 +0000 Message-ID: <967B268C-0DD9-4359-9A02-205367BEA581@cisco.com> References: <3e31873a-278a-2154-0e71-4d820bba323d@gont.com.ar> <4012D854-2F10-4476-951D-FFFE73C5083C@gmail.com> <28214_1567694772_5D711FB4_28214_238_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48BFA9F3@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <129bbb32-0f14-b799-430c-8f76fb6b1279@gont.com.ar> <1824_1575998223_5DEFD30F_1824_112_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D24EBD@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <4384c08a-65f5-dbfb-85c7-8365feba9662@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: 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[was Re: Extension Header Insertion] Thread-Index: AQHVrvgl7RmF4FeO1UO7ANy1G6t63aezDKwAgAC1CYCAACvaAIAALpMAgAHIgYA= Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2019 20:04:46 +0000 Message-ID: <828CB811-03D7-4A92-820B-448E2C31C320@cisco.com> References: <00dc01d5ae73$c361b450$4a251cf0$@olddog.co.uk> <9bc47200-4fea-37ce-0ede-cbf6a5f70ea9@gmail.com> <99e4bdd0-711d-7406-d3bf-786b0238c1e7@gont.com.ar> <44e6225f-97bc-37ba-c13e-b7bafa446fcc@gmail.com> <7a0b4be6-9149-29d8-c253-19127bfcef14@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <7a0b4be6-9149-29d8-c253-19127bfcef14@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-GB X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/10.1f.0.191110 authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=pcamaril@cisco.com; x-originating-ip: [173.38.220.51] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: bab9f003-bdf0-4295-699d-08d77e755eed x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: MWHPR11MB1390: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:10000; x-forefront-prvs: 024847EE92 x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10009020)(396003)(366004)(39860400002)(346002)(376002)(136003)(199004)(189003)(13464003)(2616005)(186003)(4326008)(478600001)(36756003)(6486002)(5660300002)(966005)(8936002)(81166006)(86362001)(8676002)(26005)(71200400001)(81156014)(53546011)(76116006)(6506007)(6512007)(66476007)(66946007)(6916009)(66446008)(33656002)(2906002)(64756008)(316002)(66556008)(91956017); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; SCL:1; SRVR:MWHPR11MB1390; H:MWHPR11MB1374.namprd11.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: cisco.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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 x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: bab9f003-bdf0-4295-699d-08d77e755eed X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 11 Dec 2019 20:04:46.2756 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5ae1af62-9505-4097-a69a-c1553ef7840e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: jkrLhKcfmUhYpAby7xlxC+BbPNhvUgb1U274Gn+tGp6Wh4CIhNg8VDfGdb6rBucg25HdC7ZNQNP9YVLnLOB/MA== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: MWHPR11MB1390 X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.36.7.17, xch-aln-007.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: alln-core-6.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] What if? 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5ae1af62-9505-4097-a69a-c1553ef7840e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: WImbs0sWyvkeeaWL0HShd59DJK2gUJlLbjS7oqKejh96b3XpKQaqqwHRDkqn8l3IOhHy/bV+C9HDBhXOqwpw0w== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: MWHPR11MB1246 X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.36.7.13, xch-aln-003.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: alln-core-4.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] SRv6 Network Programming and Link Local Source Addresses X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2019 20:07:36 -0000 Um9uLA0KDQpPay4gTGV0IG1lIHRyeSB0byBiZSBvcGVuLW1pbmRlZCBhbmQgdW5kZXJzdGFuZCB3 aHkgeW91IGhhdmUgYSBjb25jZXJuIHRoYXQgbm8tb25lIGVsc2UgaXMgc2hhcmluZzoNCg0KSSBn dWVzcyB0aGF0IHlvdXIgY29uY2VybiBpcyB0aGF0IHNpbmNlIHdlIGRvIG5vdCBoYXZlIGEgc2Vj 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Dec 2019 20:08:50 +0000 From: "Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)" To: "bruno.decraene@orange.com" CC: Ron Bonica , SPRING WG , 6man Chairs <6man-chairs@ietf.org> Thread-Topic: SRv6 packets carrying multiple instances of the SRH Thread-Index: AdWiXWC/xHP4SClLRLeTMoclYcMRIQMiRGAAAA7l7xAAX/RJgA== Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2019 20:08:49 +0000 Message-ID: References: <28239_1575908187_5DEE735B_28239_3_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D22633@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: <28239_1575908187_5DEE735B_28239_3_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D22633@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-GB X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/10.1f.0.191110 authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=pcamaril@cisco.com; x-originating-ip: [173.38.220.51] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 23a0f6e8-b165-4cb0-102e-08d77e75f023 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: 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-0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <80A78F48-9802-4DA9-B264-1A8920C1DDF9@kaloom.com> <885c9ad6-ddd2-392a-7e9f-722509753e2d@si6networks.com> <27448_1575983799_5DEF9AB7_27448_30_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D245CD@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <5b0f37d2-56a3-5f7f-ab29-7d6ebc2367d5@si6networks.com> <603cbb85-3b68-5c93-e7c5-3768e6310f48@si6networks.com> <26f2fff6-f6c8-0e9f-29e6-a180896f5a05@si6networks.com> In-Reply-To: From: Robert Raszuk Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2019 21:32:36 +0100 Message-ID: To: Brian E Carpenter Cc: Fernando Gont , Bruno Decraene , Ron Bonica , SPRING WG , "int-ads@ietf.org" , Andrew Alston , rtg-ads , Bob Hinden , Ole Troan , Suresh Krishnan Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000136d96059973887b" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Penultimate Segment Popping and RFC8200 (Was Re: We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping)) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2019 20:32:50 -0000 --000000000000136d96059973887b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Brian, I think everyone grasps it. I think the problem is that the SRH proponents > use the word "insert" a little ambiguously. In IPv6-land, it's been assumed > to mean "insert an SRH header in the middle of an existing IPv6 packet > header". > Well I got that. In fact I recommend to some friends to rename it in the NP draft to "impose" or "place" so the text does not raise blood pressure where it does not to :) But again as you see from the subject line this discussion is about deletion not imposition nor insertion. I bet 6man list will be the forum to discuss Daniel's draft soon. > I suspect that in SRH-land, and in the IPv6 data plane context, it's mainly > being used to mean "encapsulate an IPv6 packet in a new IPv6 packet that > includes > an SRH header." I think in the context of SRv6 it was/is used to mean both. Insert SRH with new header or without one. And the context which exact action is required is inferred from the situation. Yes this adds unnecessary confusion and I am sure editors will be happy to clear this in documents. Said all this NP draft under this discussion does not have any issue with any of this. > And in the MPLS data plane context it means "prepend an additional > MPLS label." > > Right or wrong? > Well in MPLS label stack insertion was more called label imposition. Thx a lot, R. --000000000000136d96059973887b Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Brian,

I think everyone gras= ps it. I think the problem is that the SRH proponents
use the word "insert" a little ambiguously. In IPv6-land, it'= s been assumed
to mean "insert an SRH header in the middle of an existing IPv6 packet= header".

Well I got that. In fact= I recommend to some=C2=A0friends to rename it in the NP draft to "imp= ose" or "place" so the text does not raise blood pressure wh= ere it does not to :)=C2=A0

But again as you see f= rom the subject line this discussion is about deletion not imposition nor i= nsertion. I bet 6man list will be the forum to discuss Daniel's draft s= oon.=C2=A0
=C2=A0
I suspect that in SRH-land, and in the IPv6 data plane context, it's ma= inly
being used to mean "encapsulate an IPv6 packet in a new IPv6 packet th= at includes
an SRH header."

I think in the contex= t of SRv6 it was/is used to mean both. Insert SRH with new header or withou= t one. And the context which exact action is required is inferred from the = situation.=C2=A0

Yes this adds unnecessary confusi= on and I am sure editors will be happy to clear this in documents.=C2=A0

Said all this NP draft under this discussion does no= t have any issue with any of this.=C2=A0
=C2=A0
And in the MPLS data plane contex= t it means "prepend an additional
MPLS label."

Right or wrong?

Well in MPLS label stac= k insertion was more called label imposition.=C2=A0

Thx a lot,
R.

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definitions=main-1912110168 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] SRv6 Network Programming and Link Local Source Addresses X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2019 20:37:32 -0000 UGFibG8sDQoNCkkgYW0gaGFwcHkgdG8gaGVhciB0aGF0IHlvdSB3b3VsZCBub3QgZm9yd2FyZCB0 aGUgcGFja2V0LiBUaGF0IGlzIHRoZSBjb3JyZWN0IGJlaGF2aW9yLg0KDQpDb3VsZCB3ZSBtYWtl IHRoYXQgcG9pbnQgY2xlYXIgaW4gdGhlIGRyYWZ0PyANCg0KICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIFJvbg0K DQoNCg0KSnVuaXBlciBCdXNpbmVzcyBVc2UgT25seQ0KDQotLS0tLU9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2Ut LS0tLQ0KRnJvbTogUGFibG8gQ2FtYXJpbGxvIChwY2FtYXJpbCkgPHBjYW1hcmlsQGNpc2NvLmNv bT4gDQpTZW50OiBXZWRuZXNkYXksIERlY2VtYmVyIDExLCAyMDE5IDM6MDcgUE0NClRvOiBSb24g Qm9uaWNhIDxyYm9uaWNhQGp1bmlwZXIubmV0PjsgUm9uIEJvbmljYSA8cmJvbmljYT00MGp1bmlw 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[111.69.147.228]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id h3sm4224708pfr.15.2019.12.11.14.06.20 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 11 Dec 2019 14:06:21 -0800 (PST) To: spring@ietf.org References: <157609408568.11496.11799785813274132900@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Brian E Carpenter Message-ID: <4c762fc5-8a61-e182-a9cc-d45b0f586ccc@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2019 11:06:17 +1300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <157609408568.11496.11799785813274132900@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] I-D Action: draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-06.txt X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2019 22:06:25 -0000 So, I've tried to look at this with fresh eyes, and thanks for the various updates and clarifications. (I'm still not on the SPRING list so please leave me in CC.) I remain a bit puzzled. First, a quote from the SRH specification (draft-ietf-6man-segment-routing-header-26): > 4.2. Transit Node > > As specified in [RFC8200], the only node allowed to inspect the > Routing Extension Header (and therefore the SRH), is the node > corresponding to the DA of the packet. Any other transit node MUST > NOT inspect the underneath routing header and MUST forward the packet > toward the DA according to its IPv6 routing table. Next, a quote from the current draft: > SRH[n]: A shorter representation of Segment List[n], as defined in > [I-D.ietf-6man-segment-routing-header]. > > When a packet is intercepted on a wire, it is possible that SRH[SL] > is different from the DA. Huh? That would be extremely unusual in the normal interpretation of a routing header, where is RH[SL] is by definition the next destination where the RH will be processed. Any other node is a transit node, and I don't see anything in draft-ietf-6man-segment-routing-header-26 that allows for anything else. So it seems to me that the quoted statement needs an explanation of why it isn't a violation of draft-ietf-6man-segment-routing-header-26, not to mention why it's useful. That leads us back to: > 4.16.1. PSP: Penultimate Segment Pop of the SRH > > The SRH processing of the End, End.X and End.T behaviors are > modified: after the instruction "S14. Update IPv6 DA with Segment > List[Segments Left]" is executed, the following instructions must be > executed as well: > > S14.1. If (Segments Left == 0) { > S14.2. Update the Next Header field in the preceding header to the > Next Header value of the SRH > S14.3. Decrease the IPv6 header Payload Length by the Hdr Ext Len > value of the SRH > S14.4. Remove the SRH from the IPv6 extension header chain > S14.5. } This is clearly a breach of RFC8200, but it can never be reached if DA == SRH[SL]. The operation "4.16.2. USP: Ultimate Segment Pop of the SRH" seems like a pointless variant on "4.16.3. USD: Ultimate Segment Decapsulation", since the packet has reached its destination anyway and will presumably be decapsulated anyway. Regards Brian Carpenter On 12-Dec-19 08:54, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote: > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. > This draft is a work item of the Source Packet Routing in Networking WG of the IETF. > > Title : SRv6 Network Programming > Authors : Clarence Filsfils > Pablo Camarillo Garvia > John Leddy > Daniel Voyer > Satoru Matsushima > Zhenbin Li > Filename : draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-06.txt > Pages : 39 > Date : 2019-12-11 > > Abstract: > The SRv6 Network Programming framework enables a network operator or > an application to specify a packet packet processing program by > encoding a sequence of instructions in the IPv6 packet header. > > Each instruction is implemented on one or several nodes in the > network and identified by an SRv6 Segment Identifier in the packet. > > This document defines the SRv6 Network Programming concept and > specifies the base set of SRv6 behaviors that enables the creation of > interoperable overlays with underlay optimization (Service Level > Agreements). > > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming/ > > There are also htmlized versions available at: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-06 > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-06 > > A diff from the previous version is available at: > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-06 > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > _______________________________________________ > I-D-Announce mailing list > I-D-Announce@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce > Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html > or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt > From nobody Wed Dec 11 14:10:20 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 930111208A0; Wed, 11 Dec 2019 14:10:18 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mtupWXSSV824; Wed, 11 Dec 2019 14:10:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from mta7.iomartmail.com (mta7.iomartmail.com [62.128.193.157]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EB05F12012A; Wed, 11 Dec 2019 14:10:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from vs3.iomartmail.com (vs3.iomartmail.com [10.12.10.124]) by mta7.iomartmail.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id xBBMA9v1009593; Wed, 11 Dec 2019 22:10:09 GMT Received: from vs3.iomartmail.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by IMSVA (Postfix) with ESMTP id 009DD2203A; Wed, 11 Dec 2019 22:10:09 +0000 (GMT) Received: from asmtp1.iomartmail.com (unknown [10.12.10.248]) by vs3.iomartmail.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DF50822032; Wed, 11 Dec 2019 22:10:08 +0000 (GMT) Received: from LAPTOPK7AS653V ([84.93.96.25]) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp1.iomartmail.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id xBBMA7ia008954 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 11 Dec 2019 22:10:08 GMT Reply-To: From: "Adrian Farrel" To: "'Pablo Camarillo \(pcamaril\)'" , , "'SPRING WG List'" Cc: "'draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming'" References: <17421_1575566127_5DE93B2F_17421_93_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D1A3DA@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <035701d5ac4d$a3ea7ad0$ebbf7070$@olddog.co.uk> <0CB8E109-95E3-4A75-BCEF-1186817F68CE@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <0CB8E109-95E3-4A75-BCEF-1186817F68CE@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2019 22:10:06 -0000 Organization: Old Dog Consulting Message-ID: <062c01d5b06f$bf4b76f0$3de264d0$@olddog.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQKiVutP/sPEol3Kl3K9aNZrJmBKoAKU5q/XAgYPVnGl90DuoA== Content-Language: en-gb X-Originating-IP: 84.93.96.25 X-Thinkmail-Auth: adrian@olddog.co.uk X-TM-AS-GCONF: 00 X-TM-AS-Product-Ver: IMSVA-9.0.0.1623-8.2.0.1013-25098.003 X-TM-AS-Result: No--24.353-10.0-31-10 X-imss-scan-details: No--24.353-10.0-31-10 X-TMASE-Version: IMSVA-9.0.0.1623-8.2.1013-25098.003 X-TMASE-Result: 10--24.353100-10.000000 X-TMASE-MatchedRID: IeZYkn8zfFqyoI+bK8UPQnFPUrVDm6jtkCg/YobsR89IXJo+eGm+FFto Nq9iyPJtuGG+nLBngZeJRTIjsn2aGCXWu5LW+2sl5QQLnsWjG3Sm8MsuWwAf/dZd/DOmlnxIN7M qUQWEZrpffzU9brcHlFjS6cWqa6eCYwXAgt8PtiA1Pd2wRvpA9/90rolpyAS7r1uVaZUKda9Kb8 bIfVVvJRBFSdHtKk3VwNmWlN1avurbyTIM6I9x1spdsi/eZA1jWw/S0HB7eoO/md2adk3dROf0Q jjOEQY7nalApy/4zI3tUflBz+1y0vvYM+XnB5CTmvnKSb020hzjZOj64c0Q9nxbHSW75UstI1Eq UsnvZrAiQx+bdkPea78TAp4or9RpLQ01E4gfNkpfYa9W9OjitT17tS9vI0pxXZgp9Jjp/Mw2xNN cXVQ8wHONz4/Zu+jMnvIyWp08/uLyzTQFi0yHB5dn0VaVcqOkNGzPoDPB/1KZfDRE1uqSgvpBHO NPDWjK8a9FfTFXt2mcLCy/JTHgBWuLVqqROolwN19PjPJahlJMkOX0UoduuS6tRzC7Nk0T+EbGa y2Ctfw4Awd6AhSPbyd6jyZJF/niENBehitButjQDP6prYKgCk8S+VNhFmpb2pSaXhW9wNiK3/8B y6P4qMQpCgC/PGei3Q+GRZGPqxEuZDeNnIwVU3E8DpquRinQoiKTb964zHWJvhiXDSn8JyRE1l/ 6SnLO2aMP/NeENdX13WTRxcDUK4VVY0f2VRT1+NCQDut0K4UR5c83KIxTTpm3TxN83Lo4HGmALP PxeteSQnyAXGGW2MYZiDeZNITJW94CTTo5IqyeAiCmPx4NwFkMvWAuahr8m5N2YHMD0b8MyrfP9 j+C1d934/rDAK3zUc1+O1X9AzE= X-TMASE-SNAP-Result: 1.821001.0001-0-1-12:0,22:0,33:0,34:0-0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2019 22:10:19 -0000 Hi Pablo, Very good progress. Thanks for the work. I have snipped down to the conversation points below. The document has gone through a lot of changes in -06 and clearly there = is a -07 in the pipe. I'll wait for that before doing a re-read. Best, Adrian [snip] >> Another 'normal' thing to do is check that the draft follows the >> editorial guidelines from the RFC Editor. Most notable is that the >> Requirements Language text should be moved into section 2.1. > > PC: Moved into 2.1. > Just for my knowledge, why should it be moved into 2.1 and not into = 1.1? =20 1.1 would be acceptable, but since 2. Is all about terminology and = stuff, it sits there quite well. [snip] >> I think you could usefully spend some time describing the classes of >> behaviors. Notably "End behaviors" and "Transit behaviors". This = would >> go as a new section before section 4. >>=20 >> You can describe how/where in the network the behaviors are executed, >> and you can describe whether the behaviors are bound to specific SIDs >> (SID types) or not. >>=20 >> The, probably, rename section 4 to "End behaviors" which keeps it=20 >> aligned with the name of section 5. >>=20 > PC: The SRH draft is defining the different types of nodes accurately. = > (Transit node, Source SR node, SR Endpoint). I have no issue with the definition of nodes (other than the way the = concept is used in section 5). > This draft has > > Section1: > Familiarity with the Segment Routing Header > [I-D.ietf-6man-segment-routing-header] is assumed. Sure. > Section 5: > These > behaviors are not bound to a SID and they correspond to source SR > nodes or transit nodes [I-D.ietf-6man-segment-routing-header]. > > Don=E2=80=99t you think that is enough? Well, obviously I found it unclear. In fact, section 4 had (at the time = of my review) "Behaviors Associated with a SID" and I think I struggled = with how "associated with" was different to "bound to". But now you have renamed section 4, this helps. Nevertheless, in Section 2 you have: SRv6 segment behavior: A packet processing behavior executed at an SRv6 segment endpoint. Section 4 of this document defines behaviors related to traffic-engineering and overlay use-cases. Other behaviors (e.g. service programming) are outside the scope of this document. This must have confused me, too. Looking at it now, it seems to = constrain "behaviour" to the SR Endpoint Behaviors of section 4, meaning = that section 5 comes as a "surprise". Indeed, section 2 seems to say = that section 5 is out of scope of this document :-Z All I am asking for is some text early in the document that sets the = scene. What is a behaviour? What classes of behaviour are we considering = (end, transit, ...)? Who decides what behaviour to apply to what SID at = which node? Not looking for pages of text. Probably you could do it in 5 = lines. [snip] =20 > 4.1 > > I was surprised by... > > S01. When an SRH is processed { > S02. If (Segments Left =3D=3D 0) { > S03. Send an ICMP Parameter Problem message to the Source = Address > Code TBD-SRH (SR Upper-layer Header Error), >> Pointer set to the offset of the upper-layer header, >> interrupt packet processing and discard the packet >> S04. } >> S05. If (IPv6 Hop Limit <=3D 1) { >> S06. Send an ICMP Time Exceeded message to the Source Address, >> Code 0 (Hop limit exceeded in transit), >> interrupt packet processing and discard the packet >> S07. } >> >> Are you sure that Hop Limit processing is left so late? Isn't it one = of >> the first things done with a packet before even the SRH is discovered = to >> be present? > > PC: Is there any difference on the hop limit check if I do it two = lines earlier?=20 > I believe that the end result is the same. =20 It makes a difference which ICMP error is sent. I would argue that you = shouldn't be looking at the SRH of a packet when the Hop Limit has = expired. [snip] =20 >> 4.1 (and other sections) >>=20 >> I spent rather too much time trying to work out >>=20 >> S08. max_LE =3D (Hdr Ext Len / 2) - 1 >> S09. If ((Last Entry > max_LE) or (Segments Left > Last Entry+1)) = { >>=20 >> As far as I can see, for an SRH, >>=20 >> Hdr Ext Len =3D 7 + (16 * (Last Entry + 1) ) + sum(all TLV lengths) >>=20 >> So, while I see that you want to check that Last Entry doesn't point = out >> beyond the end of the SRH, I don't see how your computation of max_LE = >> helps. >>=20 >> What have I missed? >=20 > PC: How do you propose to check whether Last Entry value exceeds > the maximum possible theoretical Last Entry value? > The only information you have is the Header Extension Length. Based > on this I compute the maximum theoretical Last Entry possible value, > and then just compare the values. > > Maybe I am the one who have missed something. If you have a simpler > proposal please let me know. OK, we agree that the right thing to do is work out the largest possible = Last Entry value (max_LE) and compare it to the actual Last Entry value. = That is good. I also agree that all you have in hand is the Header Extension Length = (Hdr Ext Len) I just don't think that you are computing the right value for max_LE = using max_LE =3D (Hdr Ext Len / 2) - 1. I would agree that max_LE < (Hdr Ext Len / 2) - 1 so that comparing = Last Entry with that value provides a check. I just don't think it is a = very precise check. Perhaps my understanding of the actual value of Hdr Ext Len is = incorrect, but if I am right, then you could probably get closer to a = good number. [snip]=20 =20 >> 4.12 >>=20 >> Where arguments are optional, I don't think you have made it clear = what=20 >> you do if no argument is supplied. I would presume you set the ARG = bits >> to zero, but I am not clear whether zero could be interpreted as a=20 >> valid argument. > > PC: On a per deployment basis the operator decides which value of ARG = represent =E2=80=9CNo arguments=E2=80=9D. Oh, well, I understand that the ARG bits apply to a function that is = (presumably) known across the network, so I suppose that what you are = saying is that when an operator deploys a function that may take = arguments she must configure all participating nodes to have the same = understanding of those arguments and how to set the bits when no = arguments are supplied (in the case where arguments were optional for = the function). Now, it would be good to make some of that clear (perhaps in the last = paragraph of 3.1). But, we are in the business of making interoperable implementations, so = this need to configure this feature needs to be spelled out. >> 4.13 >> >> An End.B6.Encaps SID is never the last segment in a SID list. Any >> SID instantiation must be associated with an SR Policy >> B[I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing-policy] and a source address A. >=20 > This makes [I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing-policy] a normative > reference. > > PC: I disagree. Example RFC8660 (Segment Routing with the > MPLS Data Plane). =20 It is a very different usage made in that document. Here you are saying that an implementation of this document must do = something related to [I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing-policy]. To me, that means that you can't implement this document without reading = [I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing-policy] [snip] >> 4.16.1 and 4.16.2 [snip]=20 >> You might want to recast PSP if its purpose is to handle "end" nodes >> that are not SRH capable. To do this you would recast the node that = you >> have called the PSPS node as the edge of the domain (the end node) = and >> set the action as "Pop and go". >=20 > PC: This is one use-case indeed. I don=E2=80=99t follow you in the = notion of > =E2=80=9CPop and Go=E2=80=9D. An MPLS concept associated with determining the forwarding behaviour, = stripping the label, and forwarding. [snip] >> 5.1 >>=20 >> This means that N treats the following two packets P1 and P2 with = the >> same performance: >>=20 >> P1 =3D (A, S2) >>=20 >> P2 =3D (A, S2)(S3, S2, S1; SL=3D1) >>=20 >> I don't think this is necessarily true since packet length and other=20 >> things (e.g., hashing) may vary. So you either need to sharpen your >> meaning of "performance" or just content yourself with "MUST NOT >> examine the SRH". > > PC: If the SRH or anything below is not being processed, there is no > performance impact, no?=20 =20 Oh, you meant "speed of throughput" not "treated identically". The use = of "treats" confuses the sentence. OK. That comes under "sharpen your meaning of performance". Perhaps: This means that N forwards the following two packets P1 and P2 at the same rate: ? [snip] =20 >> 5.2 >>=20 >> By definition this behavior only applies at source nodes per 8402. In >> other words, you are describing domain recursion according to 8402. > > PC: Not sure what resolution you are looking for here. =20 I'm not sure either =F0=9F=98=8A I think I am wondering how you can have "Transit with Encapsulation" = since "Transit" means in the middle of the network (at a transit node) = and "Encapsulation" means at a source node. If a transit node is doing encapsulation, then you are recursing (which = is OK). When I waffled about behaviors before, it seemed to me that you have = source, transit, and end behaviors. What you are describing in this = section is a source behaviour. The fact that the source is encapsulating = a packet that is already SRv6, is not so interesting as the fact that it = is encapsulating a packet. But then see also 5.3 and this discussion below. >> I don't think 5.4 or 5.5 can happen at transit nodes. The thing to be >> encapsulated is an L2 frame and so is only seen at a source node. >>=20 >> At this point, I think only 5.1 describes a transit behavior. 5.2 to = 5.5 >> describe source behaviors. > > PC:=20 > There are two types of source nodes.=20 > You can have a source node that is doing plain IP transit. You have a > local policy to encapsulate all packets matching X to be steered into > a segment routing policy with behavior T.Encaps. > The other type of source node is the SR endpoints that instantiate a > BindingSID. This is also an Source node that steers all packets = received > with IPv6 DA =3D BSID. > Section 5 is describing transit behaviors.=20 Confused me here. You say that these source nodes are transit nodes? = That makes the definition of the two node types very unclear. Just because the node is not a host does not make it a transit node. We = have a good and clear definition of a transit node as a node that = receives and sends an SRv6 packet. Nodes that add an SRH are source = nodes. Nodes that remove the SRH are end nodes. =20 But in 5.4 the thing that is encapsulated is an L2 frame. So not plain = IP transit, and not a packet received with a BSID in the DA. At least, the text in 5.4 appears to say that. So really, is this transit behaviour? =20 >> 6.1 >>=20 >> I agree with this section, but I am concerned that you are updating=20 >> draft-ietf-6man-segment-routing-header by adding normative language = to >> describe nodes that process the SRH. Does that mean you should use an >> "Updates" clause in the document header? >> =20 >> After describing CNT-1 and CNt-2 you say... >>=20 >> Furthermore, an SRv6 capable node maintains an aggregate counter >> CNT-3 tracking the IPv6 traffic that was received with a = destination >> address matching a local interface address that is not a locally >> instantiated SID and the next-header is SRH with SL>0. >>=20 >> That looks like s/maintains/MUST maintain/ unless you have a = reference >> for the assertion that it does maintain CNT-3. > > PC: I disagree that this is an update to the SRH. The SRH defines a > header and one type of segment processing. > Defining a counter is not related to the SRH at all. =20 Well, perhaps you didn't just say what you meant to say because the text = I quoted most clearly says that the counter is counting events related = to the SRH. But to the point: the document says... Any SRv6 capable node SHOULD implement the following set of combined counters (packets and bytes): "Any SRv6 capable node" is clearly in the scope of = draft-ietf-6man-segment-routing-header >> 6.3 >>=20 >> I think you have made [I-D.ietf-6man-spring-srv6-oam] a normative >> reference. >=20 > PC: Why? Its defining new behaviors for the purpose of OAM, but > those are not required in NET-PGM. You're right. Section 6.3 doesn't actually say anything. [snip] =20 >> 9. >> I am strongly opposed to such a large range being assigned for >> experimental use. RFC 3692 gives some guidance. The normal idea is=20 >> that there should be enough codepoints to allow two experiments to be >> run on the same nodes without conflict, but few enough that they = cannot >> be used as a proxy for allocating and registering values in the=20 >> registry. >>=20 >> I should think that 32 code points is enough. > > PC: This comment has also been raised by Bruno (as individual). I > agree and I have proposed to Bruno this: > Experimental and Private use deleted > Specification Required changed to FCFS as per Bruno=E2=80=99s = suggestion > New block in the previous space of experimental and private that > is reserved for future use of IETF. That works. The correct language for the last block is "Reserved. Not to be = allocated." (Note for you: a future standards track document can change the = allocation policy for that block meaning it can then be used.) From nobody Wed Dec 11 14:49:52 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E6FC1200B1; Wed, 11 Dec 2019 14:49:50 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZN9EFeYHJkc9; Wed, 11 Dec 2019 14:49:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from fgont.go6lab.si (fgont.go6lab.si [91.239.96.14]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7F0A8120005; Wed, 11 Dec 2019 14:49:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.7] (unknown [181.113.152.47]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by fgont.go6lab.si (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id CDC9B8675F; Wed, 11 Dec 2019 23:49:41 +0100 (CET) To: Robert Raszuk Cc: Bruno Decraene , Ron Bonica , SPRING WG , "int-ads@ietf.org" , Andrew Alston , rtg-ads , Bob Hinden , Brian E Carpenter , Ole Troan , Suresh Krishnan References: <80A78F48-9802-4DA9-B264-1A8920C1DDF9@kaloom.com> <885c9ad6-ddd2-392a-7e9f-722509753e2d@si6networks.com> <27448_1575983799_5DEF9AB7_27448_30_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D245CD@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <5b0f37d2-56a3-5f7f-ab29-7d6ebc2367d5@si6networks.com> <603cbb85-3b68-5c93-e7c5-3768e6310f48@si6networks.com> <26f2fff6-f6c8-0e9f-29e6-a180896f5a05@si6networks.com> From: Fernando Gont Autocrypt: addr=fgont@si6networks.com; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBE5so2gBEACzBQBLUy8nzgAzSZn6ViXT6TmZBFNYNqTpPRvTVtUqF6+tkI+IEd9N2E8p pXUXCd0W4dkxz6o7pagnK63m4QSueggvp881RVVHOF8oTSHOdnGxLfLeLNJFKE1FOutU3vod GK/wG/Fwzkv9MebdXpMlLV8nnJuAt66XGl/lU1JrNfrKO4SoYQi4TsB/waUQcygh7OR/PEO0 EttiU8kZUbZNv58WH+PAj/rdZCrgUSiGXiWUQQKShqKnJxLuAcTcg5YRwL8se/V6ciW0QR9i /sr52gSmLLbW5N3hAoO+nv1V/9SjJAUvzXu43k8sua/XlCXkqU7uLj41CRR72JeUZ4DQsYfP LfNPC98ZGTVxbWbFtLXxpzzDDT8i3uo7w1LJ2Ij/d5ezcARqw01HGljWWxnidUrjbTpxkJ9X EllcsH94mer728j/HKzC9OcTuz6WUBP3Crgl6Q47gY5ZIiF0lsmd9/wxbaq5NiJ+lGuBRZrD v0dQx9KmyI0/pH2AF8cW897/6ypvcyD/1/11CJcN+uAGIrklwJlVpRSbKbFtGC6In592lhu7 wnK8cgyP5cTU+vva9+g6P1wehi4bylXdlKc6mMphbtSA+T3WBNP557+mh3L62l4pGaEGidcZ DLYT2Ud18eAJmxU3HnM8P3iZZgeoK7oqgb53/eg96vkONXNIOwARAQABtCVGZXJuYW5kbyBH b250IDxmZ29udEBzaTZuZXR3b3Jrcy5jb20+iQJBBBMBAgArAhsjBQkSzAMABgsJCAcDAgYV CAIJCgsEFgIDAQIeAQIXgAUCTmylpQIZAQAKCRCuJQ1VHU50kv7wD/9fuNtTfxSLk3B3Hs3p ixTy8YXVjdkVwWlnJjFd7BOWmg7sI+LDhpjGfT6+ddOiwkumnvUZpObodj4ysH0i8c7P4C5t F9yu7WjklSlrB5Rth2CGChg5bKt541z2WHkFFxys9qBLmCSYDeKQkzLqhCjIUJizY2kOJ2GI MnSFDzJjhSFEh//oW830Y8fel1xnf/NVF+lBVtRMtMOfoWUqDjvP3sJ1G4zgkDCnF0CfncLx +hq2Mv26Uq9OTzvLH9aSQQ/f067BOkKAJKsfHdborX4E96ISTz57/4xECRSMr5dVsKVm4Y// uVIsb+L5z+a32FaiBZIAKDgnJO7Z8j6CV5e5yfuBTtX52Yi9HjYYqnYJGSDxYd6igD4bWu+7 xmJPHjkdqZgGV6dQIgiUfqkU+s5Cv350vK48CMaT/ZLo2BdsMhWsmaHmb+waePUMyq6E4E9x 9Js+EJb9ZiCfxS9exgieZQpet1L36IvhiwByvkQM009ywfa30JeMOltUtfLi5V06WQWsTzPL 5C+4cpkguSuAJVDTctjCA0moIeVDOpJ8WH9voQ4IeWapQnX35OIoj1jGJqqYdx65gc1ygbyx b8vw+pJ9E5GLse5TQnYifOWpXzX9053dtbwp/2OVhU4KLlzfCPCEsoTyfu9nIZxdI2PMwiL5 M85BfjX4NmwBLmPGoLkCDQRObKNoARAAqqXCkr250BchRDmi+05F5UQFgylUh10XTAJxBeaQ UNtdxZiZRm6jgomSrqeYtricM9t9K0qb4X2ZXmAMW8o8AYW3RrQHTjcBwMnAKzUIEXXWaLfG cid/ygmvWzIHgMDQKP+MUq1AGQrnvt/MRLvZLyczAV1RTXS58qNaxtaSpc3K/yrDozh/a4pu WcUsVvIkzyx43sqcwamDSBb6U8JFoZizuLXiARLLASgyHrrCedNIZdWSx0z0iHEpZIelA2ih AGLiSMtmtikVEyrJICgO81DkKNCbBbPg+7fi23V6M24+3syHk3IdQibTtBMxinIPyLFF0byJ aGm0fmjefhnmVJyCIl/FDkCHprVhTme57G2/WdoGnUvnT7mcwDRb8XY5nNRkOJsqqLPemKjz kx8mXdQbunXtX9bKyVgd1gIl+LLsxbdzRCch773UBVoortPdK3kMyLtZ4uMeDX3comjx+6VL bztUdJ1Zc9/njwVG8fgmQ+0Kj5+bzQfUY+MmX0HTXIx3B4R1I1a8QoOwi1N+iZNdewV5Zfq+ 29NlQLnVPjCRCKbaz9k6RJ2oIti55YUI6zSsL3lmlOXsRbXN5bRswFczkNSCJxJMlDiyAUIC WOay7ymzvgzPa+BY/mYn94vRaurDQ4/ljOfj6oqgfjts+dJev4Jj89vp8MQI3KJpZPEAEQEA AYkCJQQYAQIADwUCTmyjaAIbDAUJEswDAAAKCRCuJQ1VHU50km4xEACho45PZrUjY4Zl2opR DFNo5a6roTOPpgwO9PcBb3I5F8yX2Dnew+9OhgWXbBhAFq4DCx+9Gjs43Bn60qbZTDbLGJ/m 8N4PwEiq0e5MKceYcbetEdEUWhm5L6psU9ZZ82GR3UGxPXYe+oifEoJjOXQ39avf9S8p3yKP Diil0E79rn7LbJjMcgMLyjFg9SDoJ6pHLtniJoDhEAaSSgeV7Y745+gyMIdtQmrFHfqrFdjq D6G0HE+Z68ywc5KN67YxhvhBmSycs1ZSKAXv1zLDlXdmjHDHkU3xMcB+RkuiTba8yRFYwb/n j62CC4NhFTuIKOc4ta3dJsyXTGh/hO9UjWUnmAGfd0fnzTBZF8Qlnw/8ftx5lt4/O+eqY1EN RITScnPzXE/wMOlTtdkddQ+QN6xt6jyR2XtAIi7aAFHypIqA3lLI9hF9x+lj4UQ2yA9LqpoX 6URpPOd13JhAyDe47cwsP1u9Y+OBvQTVLSvw7Liu2b4KjqL4lx++VdBi7dXsjJ6kjIRjI6Lb WVpxe8LumMCuVDepTafBZ49gr7Fgc4F9ZSCo6ChgQNLn6WDzIkqFX+42KuHz90AHWhuW+KZR 1aJylERWeTcMCGUSBptd48KniWmD6kPKpzwoMkJtEXTuO2lVuborxzwuqOTNuYg9lWDl7zKt wPI9brGzquUHy4qRrA== Message-ID: <864131b9-283c-13aa-b5bb-eea3b977c4f4@si6networks.com> Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2019 17:34:59 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Penultimate Segment Popping and RFC8200 (Was Re: We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping)) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2019 22:49:51 -0000 On 11/12/19 03:29, Robert Raszuk wrote: > > RFC 2473   > > Quotes have been already provided to the lists.  > > When encapsulating a packet I can put whatever EH is defined and when > decapsulating the packet I can remove any EH I inserted before. I "own" > the new IPv6 header. Very simple. It is like taking the cars on a ferry.  > > Your original packet (call it end to end ... call it original src going > to final/ultimate destination) is just a payload.  > > I can not believe that anyone can not grasp such basic concept. The name says it all: "Penultimate Segment Popping". You remove the SRH at a place other than the final destination. Thanks, -- Fernando Gont SI6 Networks e-mail: fgont@si6networks.com PGP Fingerprint: 6666 31C6 D484 63B2 8FB1 E3C4 AE25 0D55 1D4E 7492 From nobody Wed Dec 11 14:57:32 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0E451201DE; Wed, 11 Dec 2019 14:57:30 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BVmQHM0q3qDM; Wed, 11 Dec 2019 14:57:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from fgont.go6lab.si (fgont.go6lab.si [91.239.96.14]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0DFB6120178; Wed, 11 Dec 2019 14:57:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.7] (unknown [181.113.152.47]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by fgont.go6lab.si (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7BBEA86789; Wed, 11 Dec 2019 23:49:47 +0100 (CET) To: bruno.decraene@orange.com Cc: draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming , 'SPRING WG List' References: <17421_1575566127_5DE93B2F_17421_93_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D1A3DA@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <6c674995-8cc7-c024-4181-60b160910f75@si6networks.com> <29345_1576001884_5DEFE15C_29345_229_5_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D250B7@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <89402a30-129b-314f-90f1-ba6efcdd6a88@si6networks.com> <16536_1576089460_5DF13774_16536_366_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D273AD@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> From: Fernando Gont Autocrypt: addr=fgont@si6networks.com; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBE5so2gBEACzBQBLUy8nzgAzSZn6ViXT6TmZBFNYNqTpPRvTVtUqF6+tkI+IEd9N2E8p pXUXCd0W4dkxz6o7pagnK63m4QSueggvp881RVVHOF8oTSHOdnGxLfLeLNJFKE1FOutU3vod GK/wG/Fwzkv9MebdXpMlLV8nnJuAt66XGl/lU1JrNfrKO4SoYQi4TsB/waUQcygh7OR/PEO0 EttiU8kZUbZNv58WH+PAj/rdZCrgUSiGXiWUQQKShqKnJxLuAcTcg5YRwL8se/V6ciW0QR9i /sr52gSmLLbW5N3hAoO+nv1V/9SjJAUvzXu43k8sua/XlCXkqU7uLj41CRR72JeUZ4DQsYfP LfNPC98ZGTVxbWbFtLXxpzzDDT8i3uo7w1LJ2Ij/d5ezcARqw01HGljWWxnidUrjbTpxkJ9X EllcsH94mer728j/HKzC9OcTuz6WUBP3Crgl6Q47gY5ZIiF0lsmd9/wxbaq5NiJ+lGuBRZrD v0dQx9KmyI0/pH2AF8cW897/6ypvcyD/1/11CJcN+uAGIrklwJlVpRSbKbFtGC6In592lhu7 wnK8cgyP5cTU+vva9+g6P1wehi4bylXdlKc6mMphbtSA+T3WBNP557+mh3L62l4pGaEGidcZ DLYT2Ud18eAJmxU3HnM8P3iZZgeoK7oqgb53/eg96vkONXNIOwARAQABtCVGZXJuYW5kbyBH b250IDxmZ29udEBzaTZuZXR3b3Jrcy5jb20+iQJBBBMBAgArAhsjBQkSzAMABgsJCAcDAgYV CAIJCgsEFgIDAQIeAQIXgAUCTmylpQIZAQAKCRCuJQ1VHU50kv7wD/9fuNtTfxSLk3B3Hs3p ixTy8YXVjdkVwWlnJjFd7BOWmg7sI+LDhpjGfT6+ddOiwkumnvUZpObodj4ysH0i8c7P4C5t F9yu7WjklSlrB5Rth2CGChg5bKt541z2WHkFFxys9qBLmCSYDeKQkzLqhCjIUJizY2kOJ2GI MnSFDzJjhSFEh//oW830Y8fel1xnf/NVF+lBVtRMtMOfoWUqDjvP3sJ1G4zgkDCnF0CfncLx +hq2Mv26Uq9OTzvLH9aSQQ/f067BOkKAJKsfHdborX4E96ISTz57/4xECRSMr5dVsKVm4Y// uVIsb+L5z+a32FaiBZIAKDgnJO7Z8j6CV5e5yfuBTtX52Yi9HjYYqnYJGSDxYd6igD4bWu+7 xmJPHjkdqZgGV6dQIgiUfqkU+s5Cv350vK48CMaT/ZLo2BdsMhWsmaHmb+waePUMyq6E4E9x 9Js+EJb9ZiCfxS9exgieZQpet1L36IvhiwByvkQM009ywfa30JeMOltUtfLi5V06WQWsTzPL 5C+4cpkguSuAJVDTctjCA0moIeVDOpJ8WH9voQ4IeWapQnX35OIoj1jGJqqYdx65gc1ygbyx b8vw+pJ9E5GLse5TQnYifOWpXzX9053dtbwp/2OVhU4KLlzfCPCEsoTyfu9nIZxdI2PMwiL5 M85BfjX4NmwBLmPGoLkCDQRObKNoARAAqqXCkr250BchRDmi+05F5UQFgylUh10XTAJxBeaQ UNtdxZiZRm6jgomSrqeYtricM9t9K0qb4X2ZXmAMW8o8AYW3RrQHTjcBwMnAKzUIEXXWaLfG cid/ygmvWzIHgMDQKP+MUq1AGQrnvt/MRLvZLyczAV1RTXS58qNaxtaSpc3K/yrDozh/a4pu WcUsVvIkzyx43sqcwamDSBb6U8JFoZizuLXiARLLASgyHrrCedNIZdWSx0z0iHEpZIelA2ih AGLiSMtmtikVEyrJICgO81DkKNCbBbPg+7fi23V6M24+3syHk3IdQibTtBMxinIPyLFF0byJ aGm0fmjefhnmVJyCIl/FDkCHprVhTme57G2/WdoGnUvnT7mcwDRb8XY5nNRkOJsqqLPemKjz kx8mXdQbunXtX9bKyVgd1gIl+LLsxbdzRCch773UBVoortPdK3kMyLtZ4uMeDX3comjx+6VL bztUdJ1Zc9/njwVG8fgmQ+0Kj5+bzQfUY+MmX0HTXIx3B4R1I1a8QoOwi1N+iZNdewV5Zfq+ 29NlQLnVPjCRCKbaz9k6RJ2oIti55YUI6zSsL3lmlOXsRbXN5bRswFczkNSCJxJMlDiyAUIC WOay7ymzvgzPa+BY/mYn94vRaurDQ4/ljOfj6oqgfjts+dJev4Jj89vp8MQI3KJpZPEAEQEA AYkCJQQYAQIADwUCTmyjaAIbDAUJEswDAAAKCRCuJQ1VHU50km4xEACho45PZrUjY4Zl2opR DFNo5a6roTOPpgwO9PcBb3I5F8yX2Dnew+9OhgWXbBhAFq4DCx+9Gjs43Bn60qbZTDbLGJ/m 8N4PwEiq0e5MKceYcbetEdEUWhm5L6psU9ZZ82GR3UGxPXYe+oifEoJjOXQ39avf9S8p3yKP Diil0E79rn7LbJjMcgMLyjFg9SDoJ6pHLtniJoDhEAaSSgeV7Y745+gyMIdtQmrFHfqrFdjq D6G0HE+Z68ywc5KN67YxhvhBmSycs1ZSKAXv1zLDlXdmjHDHkU3xMcB+RkuiTba8yRFYwb/n j62CC4NhFTuIKOc4ta3dJsyXTGh/hO9UjWUnmAGfd0fnzTBZF8Qlnw/8ftx5lt4/O+eqY1EN RITScnPzXE/wMOlTtdkddQ+QN6xt6jyR2XtAIi7aAFHypIqA3lLI9hF9x+lj4UQ2yA9LqpoX 6URpPOd13JhAyDe47cwsP1u9Y+OBvQTVLSvw7Liu2b4KjqL4lx++VdBi7dXsjJ6kjIRjI6Lb WVpxe8LumMCuVDepTafBZ49gr7Fgc4F9ZSCo6ChgQNLn6WDzIkqFX+42KuHz90AHWhuW+KZR 1aJylERWeTcMCGUSBptd48KniWmD6kPKpzwoMkJtEXTuO2lVuborxzwuqOTNuYg9lWDl7zKt wPI9brGzquUHy4qRrA== Message-ID: <7a3a8315-6ca9-f56a-4c71-365f020fad48@si6networks.com> Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2019 17:41:23 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <16536_1576089460_5DF13774_16536_366_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D273AD@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2019 22:57:31 -0000 On 11/12/19 13:37, bruno.decraene@orange.com wrote: [....] >>>>> >>>>> Please read this document if you haven't read the most recent version, >>>>> and send your comments to the SPRING WG list, no later than December 20. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> You may copy the 6MAN WG for IPv6 related comment, but consider not >>>>> duplicating emails on the 6MAN mailing list for the comments which are >>>>> only spring specifics. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> If you are raising a point which you expect will be specifically debated >>>>> on the mailing list, consider using a specific email/thread for this point. >>>>> >>>>> This may help avoiding that the thread become specific to this point and >>>>> that other points get forgotten (or that the thread get converted into >>>>> parallel independent discussions) >>>> >>>> Penultimate Segment Popping describes/specifies the removal of a SRH at >>>> a place other than the final destination of the packet. >>>> >>>> Such behavior violates RFC8200, which specifies: >>>> >>> > Extension headers (except for the Hop-by-Hop Options header) are not >>> > processed, inserted, or deleted by any node along a packet's delivery >>> > path, until the packet reaches the node (or each of the set of nodes, >>> > in the case of multicast) identified in the Destination Address field >>> > of the IPv6 header. >>>> >>>> Note, of course, that the reference of "Destination Address" in RFC8200 >>>> is clearly the final destination of the packet -- for instance, RFC8200 >>> >>> I hear and can understand your reading of RFC8200. >> >> Could you please check RFC8200, and tell me what other possible >> interpretation of "Destination Address" you might have, in the context >> of RFC8200. > > Another interpretation is > "the node [...] identified in the Destination Address field of the IPv6 header." > https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8200#section-4 > > Actually, that's verbatim the text from RFC 8200. IN the context of RFC8200, that does not specify any routing header type, what could be in the Destination Address other than the final destination? >> RFC8200 does not even specify any routing header types. SO...where's the >> ambiguity? > > - Read the mailing list and you will see that everyone do not share your opinion. Yes, folks have also argued in the past that RFC2460 allowed EH insertion. > So at least one person is wrong. I think that it would help if everyone, including you, could consider >that they/you _may_ be wrong, at least to better understand the comments been made by others. And possibly the text from RFC 8200 is not clear, but this is what we have. And this is the text to use to support the claim that this text is violated. > - Why have _you_ filled an errata against RFC 8200, in order to change the technical content of this section, if you don't agree that one may red " Destination Address field of the IPv6 header" as the IPv6 address present in the Destination Address field of the IPv6 header been received by the End node (or even sent by the source node) > https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid5933 For the very same reason that the wg agreed including myself) to try to clarify that EH insertion wasn't allowed: because folks were making claims that they could. FWIW, the errata does not change the technical meaning, but is provided a clarification. Thanks, -- Fernando Gont SI6 Networks e-mail: fgont@si6networks.com PGP Fingerprint: 6666 31C6 D484 63B2 8FB1 E3C4 AE25 0D55 1D4E 7492 From nobody Wed Dec 11 15:07:32 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3BF3120233; Wed, 11 Dec 2019 15:07:29 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SvG_u6uPTJYM; Wed, 11 Dec 2019 15:07:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from fgont.go6lab.si (fgont.go6lab.si [91.239.96.14]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0793612082C; Wed, 11 Dec 2019 15:07:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.7] (unknown [181.113.152.47]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by fgont.go6lab.si (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 61E2B8675F; Wed, 11 Dec 2019 23:49:51 +0100 (CET) To: bruno.decraene@orange.com Cc: Ron Bonica , SPRING WG , "int-ads@ietf.org" , Andrew Alston , rtg-ads , Bob Hinden , Brian E Carpenter , Ole Troan , Suresh Krishnan , Robert Raszuk References: <4255AD3B-379C-45BF-96E1-D3D9141A684F@liquidtelecom.com> <3bce7b18-ea45-d29f-5dfb-1d3258b07d1e@si6networks.com> <80A78F48-9802-4DA9-B264-1A8920C1DDF9@kaloom.com> <885c9ad6-ddd2-392a-7e9f-722509753e2d@si6networks.com> <27448_1575983799_5DEF9AB7_27448_30_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D245CD@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <5b0f37d2-56a3-5f7f-ab29-7d6ebc2367d5@si6networks.com> <1557_1576093710_5DF1480E_1557_460_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D27673@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> From: Fernando Gont Autocrypt: addr=fgont@si6networks.com; 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Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <1557_1576093710_5DF1480E_1557_460_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D27673@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Penultimate Segment Popping and RFC8200 (Was Re: We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping)) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2019 23:07:30 -0000 Bruno, On 11/12/19 14:48, bruno.decraene@orange.com wrote: [....] >>>> If you think a document on tunnels rules how IPv6 operates, and its >>>> end-to-endianness, then you have a huge problem reading specs. >>>> >>>> So I will not enter that game, because it would be accepting to be >>>> mocked at. >>>> >>>> I'll wait for a few days for our INT AD's response (Suresh), a response >>>> from the spring chairs (if any), and a response from the RTG AD(s). >>> >>> I'm not sure what response to what question you expect from spring chairs. >> >> A number og wg participants are letting the chairs and ADs aware that a >> wg document contains an outright violation of an Internet Standard > > That point is noted. > But given that a number of wg participants are saying the opposite, we need to go a bit deeper in the discussion. That's what I've tried to initiate and I believe that we have made progress. Filling an errata somehow warrants that a clarification on the topic is about to come (in the event it was ever needed). > > My understanding is that you are saying that > PSP and USP, as defined in [1] and more specifically "Pop the SRH" contradict with [2] and more specifically > " Extension headers [...] are not > processed, inserted, or deleted by any node along a packet's delivery > path, until the packet reaches the node [...] identified in the Destination Address field > of the IPv6 header." > > > More specifically, your point is that " the Destination Address field of the IPv6 header" is to be understood as " final destination node" > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ipv6/Ku-kKBE-vG5QGdT2DvqLxMQpRik My point is that according to RFC8200, which does not specify any routing header types, the destination cannot contain anything else other than the final destination of the packet. The spirit of what the text means is also well known to all of us 6man participants as we discussed the topic while working on what eventually became RFC8200. [...] >> that >> spring is not in a position of changing. > > 6man consensus is written in RFC 8200. I can read it as any other one. Actually you are the one trying to modify that text. > But to your point, believe me, I'll be more than happy to give that ball to someone else. E.g. to my AD then IESG and flagging that point in the shepherd report. > I'll also monitor your above errata, to see if it's been accepted or rejected. That will typically be a strong input in the balance. Agreed on this last item. -- that was part of the motivation of submitting it. > >> I deem that as a major issue, and I'm curious how you might possible >> ignore it, declare consensus, and ship and request publication of this >> document. > > Noted. > I'm not ignoring it. Quite the contrary I'm the one engaging the discussion with you in order to understand the real technical point that you want to make. The esensce of my technical point is that IPv6 does not support inserting headers or deleting them on the packets delivery path. And PSP requires exactly that, violating RFC8200. 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from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13F911201DE; Wed, 11 Dec 2019 16:22:23 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RMWzWVisFP2J; Wed, 11 Dec 2019 16:22:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from fgont.go6lab.si (fgont.go6lab.si [91.239.96.14]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E69741200FB; Wed, 11 Dec 2019 16:22:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.7] (unknown [181.113.152.47]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by fgont.go6lab.si (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 2FABB82ABB; Thu, 12 Dec 2019 01:22:15 +0100 (CET) To: Suresh Krishnan Cc: SPRING WG , Ron Bonica , "int-ads@ietf.org" , Andrew Alston , rtg-ads , Bob Hinden , Ole Troan , Brian E Carpenter References: <4255AD3B-379C-45BF-96E1-D3D9141A684F@liquidtelecom.com> <3bce7b18-ea45-d29f-5dfb-1d3258b07d1e@si6networks.com> <80A78F48-9802-4DA9-B264-1A8920C1DDF9@kaloom.com> <6bc831ce-326f-3648-6e6f-4c715b2a49ac@si6networks.com> <858E25C2-36FA-4E37-A70C-72D9DEA1BF3D@kaloom.com> From: Fernando Gont Autocrypt: addr=fgont@si6networks.com; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBE5so2gBEACzBQBLUy8nzgAzSZn6ViXT6TmZBFNYNqTpPRvTVtUqF6+tkI+IEd9N2E8p pXUXCd0W4dkxz6o7pagnK63m4QSueggvp881RVVHOF8oTSHOdnGxLfLeLNJFKE1FOutU3vod GK/wG/Fwzkv9MebdXpMlLV8nnJuAt66XGl/lU1JrNfrKO4SoYQi4TsB/waUQcygh7OR/PEO0 EttiU8kZUbZNv58WH+PAj/rdZCrgUSiGXiWUQQKShqKnJxLuAcTcg5YRwL8se/V6ciW0QR9i /sr52gSmLLbW5N3hAoO+nv1V/9SjJAUvzXu43k8sua/XlCXkqU7uLj41CRR72JeUZ4DQsYfP 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<858E25C2-36FA-4E37-A70C-72D9DEA1BF3D@kaloom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Non-final destination address (was Re: Penultimate Segment Popping and RFC8200 (Was Re: We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping))) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2019 00:22:23 -0000 On 11/12/19 19:04, Suresh Krishnan wrote: > Hi Fernando, > Answer inline. > >> On Dec 7, 2019, at 9:31 AM, Fernando Gont wrote: >> >> On 7/12/19 04:19, Suresh Krishnan wrote: >>> (responding on spring mailing list) >>> >>> Hi Fernando, >>> >>>> On Dec 7, 2019, at 11:07 AM, Fernando Gont >>> > wrote: >>>> >>>> On 6/12/19 23:47, Brian E Carpenter wrote: >>>>> Again, comment at the end... >>>>> On 07-Dec-19 14:37, Fernando Gont wrote: >>>>>> On 6/12/19 22:15, Brian E Carpenter wrote: >>>>>> [...] >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> and if such a thing is required, an update to RFC8200 should be done. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Why does that follow? Alternatively, >>>>>>> draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming could acknowledge that >>>>>>> it deviates from RFC8200. >>>>>> >>>>>> You can deviate from s "should", not from a "must". This is an outright >>>>>> violation of a spec, rather than a mere "deviation". >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Whether that's acceptable would be a question for the IETF Last >>>>>>> Call rather than any single WG. >>>>>> >>>>>> I would expect that a WG cannot ship a document that is violating an >>>>>> existing spec, where the wg shipping the document is not in a position >>>>>> of making decisions regarding the spec being violated. >>>>>> >>>>>> That would be like a waste of energy and time for all. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> At the moment, the draft only mentions RFC8200 in a context that >>>>>>> discusses neither insertion nor removal of extension headers, which >>>>>>> is beside the point. Like draft-voyer, if it describes a violation >>>>>>> of RFC8200, shouldn't that be explicit in the text? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> There's a lot of jargon in >>>>>>> draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming. I can't tell from the >>>>>>> jargon whether "insert" means "insert on the fly" and whether "Pop >>>>>>> the SRH" means "delete on the fly". Should those terms be clarified >>>>>>> before the draft advances? >>>>>> >>>>>> Well, if it's not clear to you, it would seem to me that the simple >>>>>> answer would be "yes". >>>>> >>>>> But if "insert" refers to the encapsulating node at the SR domain >>>>> ingress, it's no problem, and if "pop" simply means doing normal >>>>> routing header processing, it's no problem. It simply isn't clear in >>>>> the text, at least not clear to me. >>>> >>>> The fact that a folk that has been deeply involved with IPv6 cannot >>>> unequivocally tell what they talking about should be an indication with >>>> respect to how ready the document is to be shipped. >>>> >>>> (pop when you are the destination but SL!=0 is essentially 'in the >>>> network removal’) >>> >>> It is not obvious to me why you think this is a violation of RFC8200 >>> though it is possible that I misread your comment. The relevant text I >>> am looking at is >>> >>> " Extension headers (except for the Hop-by-Hop Options header) are not >>> processed, inserted, or deleted by any node along a packet's delivery >>> path, until the packet reaches the node (or each of the set of nodes, >>> in the case of multicast) identified in the Destination Address field >>> of the IPv6 header.†>>> >>> which seems to permit it. Can you please clarify where there is a >>> violation? >> >> In the context of RFC8200, where the text you have quoted is present, >> can you tell me which address other than that of the final destination >> can be in the Destination Address of the packet? > > RFC8200 *clearly* speaks about the possibility of the destination address not being the ultimate recipient in the presence of a Routing Header. This is from Section 3 defining the Destination Address as "128-bit address of the intended recipient of the packet (possibly not the ultimate recipient, if a Routing header is present).†Section 4.4 says: The Routing header is used by an IPv6 source to list one or more intermediate nodes to be "visited" on the way to a packet's destination. (contrasts this to the statement with eh insertion/removal/processing) While there could have been better use of terms, do you really think that RFC8200 is allowing EH insertion/removal at waypoints? Or do you think that, at best, the wording in RFC8200 could have been better? How would eh insertion at waypoints work with AH, Path-MTU Discovery, etc., etc.,etc? Thanks, -- Fernando Gont SI6 Networks e-mail: fgont@si6networks.com PGP Fingerprint: 6666 31C6 D484 63B2 8FB1 E3C4 AE25 0D55 1D4E 7492 From nobody Wed Dec 11 21:48:12 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2631B12029C for ; Wed, 11 Dec 2019 21:48:11 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=joelhalpern.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rlE9M12cJZSs for ; Wed, 11 Dec 2019 21:48:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailb2.tigertech.net (mailb2.tigertech.net [208.80.4.154]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5F2A71200EF for ; Wed, 11 Dec 2019 21:48:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailb2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47YNBK2G4rz1nrwn; Wed, 11 Dec 2019 21:48:09 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=joelhalpern.com; s=2.tigertech; t=1576129689; bh=d6BMDdCsYpo9WKqSPO2Y+4bj/9P3mWx4X1L17gaD5+A=; h=Subject:To:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=gQRF9YHSxKSmXzjqYhxifudSCKV/6T/5EMMkMl95S08O59fLlvScFeGFChDP/sn5v tetlhbU8xkU+7WmKF/QP4MNCnZJ517FNyKP6H+ks91Ldi4m9dlOR7yKmAVe8nmFvLq qFt4YHQhId/fqmFZulpUqCf1wYjmCYOhNc08qY7E= X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at b2.tigertech.net Received: from [192.168.128.43] (209-255-163-147.ip.mcleodusa.net [209.255.163.147]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mailb2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 47YNBJ4v6Jz1nrwl; Wed, 11 Dec 2019 21:48:08 -0800 (PST) To: "Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)" , "spring@ietf.org" References: <5c2a4b36-0c59-709e-23eb-00f4aa1ce52f@joelhalpern.com> <9B89F4C2-5594-4D31-8893-21F3F4A0DF6C@cisco.com> From: "Joel M. Halpern" Message-ID: <0f9eb3d1-77c0-2132-cad9-e23277ce6a07@joelhalpern.com> Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2019 00:48:07 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <9B89F4C2-5594-4D31-8893-21F3F4A0DF6C@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Is srv6 PSP a good idea X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2019 05:48:11 -0000 There are several aspects of your reply that leave me wondering. First, optional behaviors in a protocol spec have signficiant cost. So if they are nbot needed, we generally prefer not to have options. Second, I am confused by your comments about complexity. From my conversations with multiple ASIC folks at different companies, middle removal is generally not a trivial undertaking. My congratulations to the Broadcom folks for achieving it. Even if it is relatively simple, it is pretty clear that middle removal of an SRH is significantly more effort than skipping an exhausted SRH. particularly when such skipping is in a device inside the SRH domain. (Since it is outside the domain, one would have encapsulated, and removed the entire encapsulating header, which is indeed simpler.) Yours, Joel On 12/11/2019 3:11 PM, Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril) wrote: > Joel, > > 1.- The use-case for PSP has already been provided at the mailer. There are scenarios where it provides benefits to operators. > > 2.- The PSP behavior is optional. It is up to the operator in his deployment to decide whether to enable it or not at one particular router. > Similarly, a vendor may decide not to implement it. The PSP behavior has been implemented by several vendors and deployed (see the srv6 deployment draft). > > 3.- A network may have PSP enabled at some nodes and not at others. Everything is still interoperable and works fine. > > 4.- PSP is not a complex operation in hardware (doable at linerate on existing merchant silicon). > Example: It has been implemented and deployed on Broadcom J/J+. If I recall correctly Broadcom Jericho+ started shipping in March 2016! PSP is supported on this platform at linerate with no performance degradation (neither PPPS nor BW). > Given that this is doable in a platform from more than 3 years ago, I fail to see how you need "very special provision" to do this. > > Is it really something that horrible to provide freedom of choice to the operators deploying? > > In summary, it can be implemented without any burden in hardware and deployment experience prove this is beneficial to operators. > > Thanks, > Pablo. > > -----Original Message----- > From: spring on behalf of "Joel M. Halpern" > Date: Wednesday, 11 December 2019 at 03:55 > To: "spring@ietf.org" > Subject: [spring] Is srv6 PSP a good idea > > For purposes of this thread, even if you think PSP violates RFC 8200, > let us assume that it is legal. > > As I understand it, the PSP situation is: > o the packet arrives at the place (let's not argue about whether SIDs > are locators) identified by the SID in the destination address field > o that SID is the next to last SID in the SID list > o that sid is marked as / known to be PSP > o at the intended place in the processing pseudocode, the last (first) > entry in the SRH is copied into the destination IPv6 address field of > the packet > -> The SRH being used is then removed from the packet. > > In order to evaluate whether this is a good idea, we have to have some > idea of the benefit. It may be that I am missing some of the benefit, > and I would appreciate clarification. > As far as I can tell, the benefit of this removal is that in exchange > for this node doing the work of removing the SRH, the final node in the > SRH does not have to process the SRH at all, as it has been removed. > > I have trouble seeing how that work tradeoff can be beneficial. > Removing bytes from the middle of a packet is a complex operation. > Doing so in Silicon (we expect this to be done in the fast path of > significant forwarders as I understand it) requires very special > provision. Even in software, removing bytes from the middle of a packet > requires somewhere between some and a lot of extra work. It is > distinctly NOT free. > > In contrast, we have assumed that the work of processing SRH itself is > tractable, since otherwise all of SRv6 would be problematic. So why is > this necessary. > > Yours, > Joel > > PS: Note that both the MPLS case and the encapsulation case are very > different in that the material being removed is at the front of the IP > packet. Pop or prepend are MUCH easier than middle-removal (or > middle-insertion). > > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > > From nobody Thu Dec 12 05:54:08 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA08F12010C; Thu, 12 Dec 2019 05:54:05 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_INVALID=0.1, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=neutral reason="invalid (unsupported algorithm ed25519-sha256)" header.d=uniroma2.it header.b=TyUm50Q+; dkim=fail (2048-bit key) reason="fail (message has been altered)" header.d=uniroma2.it header.b=ev4/gy22 Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eLBAZUez-Sbf; Thu, 12 Dec 2019 05:54:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.uniroma2.it (smtp.uniroma2.it [160.80.6.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E2EEF1200C4; Thu, 12 Dec 2019 05:54:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtpauth-2019-1.uniroma2.it (smtpauth.uniroma2.it [160.80.5.46]) by smtp-2015.uniroma2.it (8.14.4/8.14.4/Debian-8) with ESMTP id xBCDrqIP007669; Thu, 12 Dec 2019 14:53:57 +0100 Received: from [192.168.43.149] (unknown [109.52.248.226]) by smtpauth-2019-1.uniroma2.it (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 970AE12286C; Thu, 12 Dec 2019 14:53:47 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=ed25519-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=uniroma2.it; s=ed201904; t=1576158827; h=from:from:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=RAtgafN8xS1ktbncc0317vmc5/Re92kX5dNMmNVOTAA=; b=TyUm50Q+tVynLEyJgECgS9LXsuonghkrIOaEgDTzBV/0FXZe4FupBRPQTKrKsWXgw2Gt3Y HSNPG6GujmjFpvBg== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=uniroma2.it; s=rsa201904; t=1576158827; h=from:from:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=RAtgafN8xS1ktbncc0317vmc5/Re92kX5dNMmNVOTAA=; b=ev4/gy22xR9hxPpPmdMy45z54NHYCe3BykFUQ65FEfWHwRv1W9nvpYYaftYEdSjFxNQYOb XQIDHtaORDrzbEUfOMzJppKOEqnsxkS/DBJ/BGglUSKoNPDsIjC2t28hgV+mB4RY5w8pLl RkpeuTRWV3Bm07QhdU1nIYPvocDJvaaPVwYE9imMRXO5A65rqlqtsiwRX+furBG3rehuOe HTSDpG7A/P1XVtjhC7CnSoc6/Y4YyXM6Yzzozu91QC1tlhcnrZ0tIaJFOcE7ytcgiWDpL0 jRdlaQ6b2SbKvaQZtNGJ/AZbN5akXIt/v2UVxgJBCguIZLHWLFltr4dybiuivw== To: bruno.decraene@orange.com, "'SPRING WG List'" , draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming References: <26660_1575564615_5DE93547_26660_39_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D1A2A9@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> From: Stefano Salsano Message-ID: Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2019 14:53:45 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <26660_1575564615_5DE93547_26660_39_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D1A2A9@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: it-IT Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.100.0 at smtp-2015 X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] IPR poll for draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2019 13:54:06 -0000 Il 2019-12-05 17:50, bruno.decraene@orange.com ha scritto: > Hi SPRING WG, > > In parallel to the WGLC for draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming, we would like to poll for IPR. > > If you are aware of IPR that applies to draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming [1] please respond to this email. If you are aware of IPR, please indicate whether it has been > disclosed in accordance with IETF IPR rules (RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 provide more details). > > If you are an *author or contributor* please respond to this email regardless of whether or not you're aware of any IPR. I’m not aware of any undisclosed IPR related to this document. Stefano Salsano > > This document will not advance until IPR confirmations have been received from all authors and contributors. > > Thank you, > Bruno > > [1] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-05 > > > _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ > > Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc > pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler > a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, > Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci. > > This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged information that may be protected by law; > they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. > If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this message and its attachments. > As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been modified, changed or falsified. > Thank you. > > -- ******************************************************************* Stefano Salsano Professore Associato Dipartimento Ingegneria Elettronica Universita' di Roma Tor Vergata Viale Politecnico, 1 - 00133 Roma - ITALY http://netgroup.uniroma2.it/Stefano_Salsano/ E-mail : stefano.salsano@uniroma2.it Cell. : +39 320 4307310 Office : (Tel.) +39 06 72597770 (Fax.) +39 06 72597435 ******************************************************************* From nobody Thu Dec 12 07:45:00 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 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Dirk Steinberg Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2019 17:12:59 +0100 Message-ID: To: bruno.decraene@orange.com Cc: SPRING WG List , draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000079dae20599840556" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] IPR poll for draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2019 16:13:14 -0000 --00000000000079dae20599840556 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi As a contributor, I=E2=80=99m not aware of any undisclosed IPR(s) related t= o this document. Cheers, Dirk On Thu, Dec 5, 2019 at 5:50 PM wrote: > Hi SPRING WG, > > In parallel to the WGLC for draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming, w= e > would like to poll for IPR. > > If you are aware of IPR that applies to > draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming [1] please respond to this > email. If you are aware of IPR, please indicate whether it has been > disclosed in accordance with IETF IPR rules (RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and > 5378 provide more details). > > If you are an *author or contributor* please respond to this email > regardless of whether or not you're aware of any IPR. > > This document will not advance until IPR confirmations have been received > from all authors and contributors. > > Thank you, > Bruno > > [1] > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-05 > > > > _________________________________________________________________________= ________________________________________________ > > Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations > confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc > pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez > recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler > a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages > electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, > Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme o= u > falsifie. Merci. > > This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged > information that may be protected by law; > they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. > If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and > delete this message and its attachments. > As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have bee= n > modified, changed or falsified. > Thank you. > > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > --00000000000079dae20599840556 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi

As a contributor, I=E2=80=99m not aware of any u= ndisclosed IPR(s) related to this document.

Cheers,
Dirk

On= Thu, Dec 5, 2019 at 5:50 PM <bruno.decraene@orange.com> wrote:
Hi SPRING WG,

In parallel to the WGLC for draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming, we = would like to poll for IPR.

If you are aware of IPR that applies to draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-prog= ramming [1] please respond to this email. If you are aware of IPR, please i= ndicate whether it has been
disclosed in accordance with IETF IPR rules (RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378= provide more details).

If you are an *author or contributor* please respond to this email regardle= ss of whether or not you're aware of any IPR.

This document will not advance until IPR confirmations have been received f= rom all authors and contributors.

Thank you,
Bruno

[1] https://tools.ietf.org/= html/draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-05


___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________

Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les message= s electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci.

This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law;
they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments.
As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been = modified, changed or falsified.
Thank you.

_______________________________________________
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From: Ron Bonica To: "spring@ietf.org" , "i-d-announce@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-06 - locators Thread-Index: AdWxExPhPt1eADQARi2erexKrbnrlw== Content-Class: Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2019 18:17:56 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: msip_labels: MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_Enabled=True; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_SiteId=bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_Owner=rbonica@juniper.net; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_SetDate=2019-12-12T18:17:55.0101843Z; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_Name=Juniper Business Use Only; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_Application=Microsoft Azure Information Protection; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_ActionId=da4e8bf7-08f8-4409-bfb6-2a3fe9e26cd9; 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18:17:56.3265 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: rBQ81vpFBs8Qbarv5XBha0ChK2d2Y26EgbQOcBljv2b99L9lX8gtEdn/AjA8DnQC4DAUB1vtok2LPHt9w3uGew== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN7PR05MB4130 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.95,18.0.572 definitions=2019-12-12_06:2019-12-12,2019-12-12 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_spam_notspam policy=outbound_spam score=0 mlxscore=0 spamscore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 adultscore=0 suspectscore=0 impostorscore=0 malwarescore=0 mlxlogscore=999 priorityscore=1501 clxscore=1011 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-1910280000 definitions=main-1912120140 Archived-At: Subject: [spring] draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-06 - locators X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2019 18:18:01 -0000 Folks, This draft version looks much better.=20 Please consider the following change in Section 3.1: OLD> L, the locator length, is flexible, and an operator is free to use the loca= tor length of their choice. LOC MUST be drawn from a globally addressable IPv6 unicast prefix or one of= the following Special Purpose IPv6 Prefixes [RFC 6890]: - Benchmarking (i.e., testing use only) - Documentation (i.e., testing use only) - Unique-Local L, the locator length, MUST be less than or equal to the length of the pref= ix from which LOC was drawn. On Behalf Of internet-drafts@ietf.or= g Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2019 2:55 PM To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Cc: spring@ietf.org Subject: [spring] I-D Action: draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-06= .txt A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director= ies. This draft is a work item of the Source Packet Routing in Networking WG of = the IETF. Title : SRv6 Network Programming Authors : Clarence Filsfils Pablo Camarillo Garvia John Leddy Daniel Voyer Satoru Matsushima Zhenbin Li Filename : draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-06.txt Pages : 39 Date : 2019-12-11 =20 From nobody Thu Dec 12 10:54:54 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F06A120024; Thu, 12 Dec 2019 10:54:53 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.997 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.997 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bQXJJO7ykhOn; Thu, 12 Dec 2019 10:54:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-io1-xd36.google.com (mail-io1-xd36.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d36]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8D8921200C3; Thu, 12 Dec 2019 10:54:50 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-io1-xd36.google.com with SMTP id v18so3947705iol.2; Thu, 12 Dec 2019 10:54:50 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=LZ7uYoJUSooq+Lbtb+UXE3wLlKhD9tzZyPee0hoYS90=; b=qwax9kMIRfh40Oow+Ajq42+IJSuKOfL+zaSQh5n4EwJOo6m5jJQFZ73wGXnRL8v6vR 0X+O+VBRg7IGf8YFSGkbMWfaM3L7Yo6UBqfN18VvTqF+zSojB7clTzMpwY+j3fVpFOwq bobFAcouUSuGGkB5surGMtNgfKGFbExLC2HrN2VSb6fOekD8gXPcP4C9CM9iRn45tsS/ VUQP1VsJh6VF0nwQE9SbCBMTbZUD04VcH6Ad/QMQ2TIdHSnEQKZdiqLcETvHM+X4XMin uMUMkayCu/oBQH7XFvz6OSwbWvQTQRF+5J9ynHS2PRKBiutd+wBXERhSDygfC4+UYEI6 TdHw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=LZ7uYoJUSooq+Lbtb+UXE3wLlKhD9tzZyPee0hoYS90=; b=Mzktqq3dyGAkj+LzQy2J+mcZBS2DTfK79NWm0LsyGzUjwtg5DF80Jg+IWHtz00zBxc 9KKZMR8+DV6dGTSvsKP8y4zwQn95dlBEtxtSIWnT7/m689P66vyG6CIabMrKscAjz1rj AyPyrKoYb7fb1V9te4c7alQYiPOutZV0USCIpwolSTM6U8DAosb7WQiOZ/4GkSN2y1q8 0EpupRtVtyOf/ZlYGv2kfKT49pZyFfa6w9IttweJUn1rrpukZZAIa5vsX5899x4ajxuB Nd6UwoZUQZv8JO2b9bO7ulbYgqarbRapaVFrhbr3Z4CHtNZ8c7nW8K09nSd3SP56Gnu+ yO9g== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXYdI/8Hq5x7a95kSslPNT7p4r09xM3jIiqYyI+YEt0Zby6IMeM 6aCSxCxtlwZCGN8bse0zgoIqxUVV01KAt+DLcndgvdzRvIE= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyk+TuuHO6h664h8dyeA8Rpwm4ruK8z9TIikbmD9qQaJQDspkzZOdalESfDZVSU8F7tJciGhWxq761T5t3pGsY= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6638:76c:: with SMTP id y12mr9414690jad.95.1576176889724; Thu, 12 Dec 2019 10:54:49 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <3e31873a-278a-2154-0e71-4d820bba323d@gont.com.ar> <4012D854-2F10-4476-951D-FFFE73C5083C@gmail.com> <28214_1567694772_5D711FB4_28214_238_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48BFA9F3@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <129bbb32-0f14-b799-430c-8f76fb6b1279@gont.com.ar> <1824_1575998223_5DEFD30F_1824_112_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D24EBD@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <4384c08a-65f5-dbfb-85c7-8365feba9662@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: From: Gyan Mishra Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2019 13:54:39 -0500 Message-ID: To: Robert Raszuk Cc: "6man@ietf.org" <6man@ietf.org>, Brian E Carpenter , Fernando Gont , Ron Bonica , Suresh Krishnan , draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming , draft-voyer-6man-extension-header-insertion , "spring@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000009d87ce0599864774" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] SRH scratch space (was Re: Question about SRv6 Insert function) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2019 18:54:53 -0000 --0000000000009d87ce0599864774 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Wed, Dec 11, 2019 at 3:37 AM Robert Raszuk wrote: > Hi Brian, > > > Each SR node (Segment Endpoint) is effectively applying new IPv6 encap >> so is already doing an insertion of new SRH >> >> That isn't "insertion" in the sense of draft-voyer. > > > Correct. But we are not discussing draft-voyer here. > > I think recent mail threads prove that it is much better to discuss one > topic at a time rather then mix three different and pretty orthogonal > "issues" interchangeably. > > >> . It's prepending an extra layer of encapsulation, which is indeed just >> fine and I don't think anyone here is objecting to it. The spring draft >> currently uses (IMHO) imprecise language, even in its pseudo-code, but if >> all it's doing is describing successive layers of encapsulation that's fine >> too. Wasted bytes perhaps, but that isn't an IETF problem. > > > Great that we agree. > > >> Whether prepending new headers, each with their own SRH, is the best way >> of doing service-based traffic engineering is another question. Having just >> reviewed draft-ietf-bess-nsh-bgp-control-plane for Gen-ART, I do believe >> there's more than one possible approach. >> > > 100% agreed. In fact as you may have seen I have another non data plane, > but control plane proposal posted: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-raszuk-teas-ip-te-np-00 > > Kind regards, > R. > Robert Your ip-te teas WG draft sounds like a fine solution and maybe can be used in conjunction with Gen-ART sfc draft in centralized SDN controller based architecture. So with draft is pulls the control plane function or Ti-LFA and SR-TE and/or binding SID policies into control plane nodes which could be the PEs eliminating SRH state in the P core. So this in essence using this feature we would save on overhead bytes with the additional 6in6 encap plus SRH state. Warm regards, Gyan > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- Gyan S. Mishra IT Network Engineering & Technology Verizon Communications Inc. (VZ) 13101 Columbia Pike FDC1 3rd Floor Silver Spring, MD 20904 United States Phone: 301 502-1347 Email: gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies-consultant --0000000000009d87ce0599864774 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Wed, Dec 11, 2019 at 3:37 AM Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> wrote:
Hi Brian,
> Each SR node (Segment Endpoint) is effectively appl= ying new IPv6 encap so is already doing an insertion of new SRH

That isn't "insertion" in the sense of draft-voyer.

Correct. But we are not discussing draft-voyer=C2=A0= here.=C2=A0

I think recent mail threads prove that= it is much better to discuss one topic at a=C2=A0time rather then mix thre= e different and pretty orthogonal "issues" interchangeably.=C2=A0=
=C2=A0
= =C2=A0. It's prepending an extra layer of encapsulation, which is indee= d just fine and I don't think anyone here is objecting to it. The sprin= g draft currently uses (IMHO) imprecise language, even in its pseudo-code, = but if all it's doing is describing successive layers of encapsulation = that's fine too. Wasted bytes perhaps, but that isn't an IETF probl= em.

Great that we agree.
=C2=A0
Whether prependin= g new headers, each with their own SRH, is the best way of doing service-ba= sed traffic engineering is another question. Having just reviewed draft-iet= f-bess-nsh-bgp-control-plane for Gen-ART, I do believe there's more tha= n one possible approach.

100% agreed. I= n fact as you may have seen I have another non data plane, but control plan= e proposal posted:=C2=A0https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-rasz= uk-teas-ip-te-np-00

Kind regards,
R.=

=C2=A0 Robert=C2=A0

= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Your ip-te teas WG draft sounds like a fine solution and mayb= e can be used in conjunction with Gen-ART sfc draft in centralized SDN cont= roller based architecture.=C2=A0 So with draft is pulls the control plane f= unction or Ti-LFA and SR-TE and/or binding SID policies into control plane = nodes which could be the PEs eliminating SRH state in the P core.=C2=A0 So = this in essence using this feature we would save on overhead bytes with the= additional 6in6 encap plus SRH state.

Warm regards,

Gyan

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<= div dir=3D"ltr">

Gyan S. Mishra

IT Networ= k Engineering & Technology=C2=A0=

Verizon Communications=C2=A0Inc. (VZ)=

13101 Columbia Pike FDC1 3rd Floor

=

Silver Spring, MD 20904

United States<= span style=3D"color:rgb(80,0,80);background-image:initial;background-positi= on:initial;background-repeat:initial">

Phone:=C2=A0301 502-1347

Email:=C2=A0gyan.s.mishra@verizon.= com

www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies-co= nsultant


--0000000000009d87ce0599864774-- From nobody Thu Dec 12 11:18:00 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAA1B1200BA; Thu, 12 Dec 2019 11:17:58 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.997 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.997 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PaF4xtpVfJ6O; Thu, 12 Dec 2019 11:17:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-il1-x132.google.com (mail-il1-x132.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::132]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 67B18120024; Thu, 12 Dec 2019 11:17:56 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-il1-x132.google.com with SMTP id r81so3016386ilk.0; Thu, 12 Dec 2019 11:17:56 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=nK73oqrmyFXMhDE510rmmljwAXOQJTXYj44WLpElvPU=; b=P2E4K9E29xbXgN+ZWKCS1bkt7tR374Qn0FVO9Nki3TwKMnxZoH/jKgAApZKh6eTyCQ N+WB+RfW715RbWqft0bJ2i2X2Zu/Y95Gywk+dhvUX0egm1qgUpeB9dFd+1+iJUkLbKEu vhCx0wQF+U5asS2LJQ1J2Ga1WWAuXaoqUxChZXolU4CMYt3gEqXtiBjOwHSnv6E26VPr EGrWrTWcjiQldkVNnLE5xAYgyCDInhhIW9mvMYSgfSITjYAFovhpzhWcPbvvDM9lIIHf oQg16QTPuQxVsqFojyBIbMFIyUtxTk8IJGxY5m3nnVDi9PWh1KqFu6aeSZJ9cgezQnpZ dZJg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=nK73oqrmyFXMhDE510rmmljwAXOQJTXYj44WLpElvPU=; b=laapFjiuc5aPmZbs5XTyr9DeCRA5YTXQNQ6QNwwuY/pYUk27ksdbyADOS9T+RCEZdA vYRmzHRtZgJ7NFdhpAK3ZEN60yn6Vd/sJpRA3/KzZia/GvkNbJSA5LgMNFlnhSv+976u /5BFQ5A3HJ9lHwXDN7sUzuR/Ff5ndBs4+l6FR0frJF+6slREEliqKYbFXEJJg7k++wdw NK6iGXFXRm3gyGwGPc9NA5FG0vG5pVH90pMKBnpzryqR3uk3O/Z5fUJvht1t9uH+HHi+ hkB2bb62FzdD4cWVabTZUlJXEmZenH45gG6hokc8Sqv0nnUR5BhewhGB4p/488/o/X/n XjbA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUPqo/JehP9GeLLvkEGmDnn5QRT63nat/6dLNMmH7vaI+Ln2gMB qnWEnr6TB/sZnoGsldryieybjD+8gk0Al2BotESBDUSh X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqy3UF5BPQXq+Ol8Qrz07pssb2WqaSbu1UW3wpcOVGr/64b1DUel9DfldOfgPQJ2GnoSlg1vH/ZQZhWjL9aNhmA= X-Received: by 2002:a92:1d8c:: with SMTP id g12mr9530997ile.91.1576178275729; Thu, 12 Dec 2019 11:17:55 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <3829BECD-32B6-41A2-A6DB-E9CDAB2EF4C3@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <3829BECD-32B6-41A2-A6DB-E9CDAB2EF4C3@cisco.com> From: Ahmed Bashandy Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2019 19:17:44 +0000 Message-ID: To: "Zafar Ali (zali)" Cc: Bruno Decraene , SPRING WG List , draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000003a44f50599869a7a" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] IPR poll for draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2019 19:17:59 -0000 --0000000000003a44f50599869a7a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I replied to the IPR poll before. But Kerry me do it again I am also not aware of any undisclosed IPR related to this draft Ahmed On Thu, Dec 12, 2019, 4:50 PM Zafar Ali (zali) wrote: > As contributor, I=E2=80=99m not aware of any undisclosed IPR related to t= his > document. > > > > Thanks > > > > Regards =E2=80=A6 Zafar > > > > *From: *spring on behalf of < > bruno.decraene@orange.com> > *Date: *Thursday, December 5, 2019 at 11:50 AM > *To: *'SPRING WG List' , > draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming < > draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming@ietf.org> > *Subject: *[spring] IPR poll for > draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming > > > > Hi SPRING WG, > > > > In parallel to the WGLC for draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming, w= e > would like to poll for IPR. > > > > If you are aware of IPR that applies to > draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming [1] please respond to this > email. If you are aware of IPR, please indicate whether it has been > > disclosed in accordance with IETF IPR rules (RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and > 5378 provide more details). > > > > If you are an *author or contributor* please respond to this email > regardless of whether or not you're aware of any IPR. > > > > This document will not advance until IPR confirmations have been received > from all authors and contributors. > > > > Thank you, > > Bruno > > > > [1] > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-05 > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________________= ________________________________________________ > > > > Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations > confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc > > pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez > recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler > > a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages > electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, > > Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme o= u > falsifie. Merci. > > > > This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged > information that may be protected by law; > > they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. > > If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and > delete this message and its attachments. > > As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have bee= n > modified, changed or falsified. > > Thank you. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > spring mailing list > > spring@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > > > > > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > --0000000000003a44f50599869a7a Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I replied to the IPR poll before.=C2=A0 But Kerry me= do it again
I am also not aware of any undisclosed IPR re= lated to this draft

Ahme= d=C2=A0


On Thu, Dec 12, 2019, 4:50 PM Zafar Ali (zali) <zali@cisco.com> wrote:

As contributor, I=E2=80= =99m not aware of any undisclosed IPR related to this document.

=C2=A0

Thanks

=C2=A0

Regards =E2=80=A6 Zafar

=C2=A0

From= : spring <s= pring-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of <bruno.decraene@orang= e.com>
Date: Thursday, December 5, 2019 at 11:50 AM
To: 'SPRING WG List' <spring@ietf.org>, draft-ietf-sp= ring-srv6-network-programming <draft-ie= tf-spring-srv6-network-programming@ietf.org>
Subject: [spring] IPR poll for draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-progra= mming

=C2=A0

Hi SPRING WG,

=C2=A0

In parallel to the WGLC for draft-ietf-spring-srv6-n= etwork-programming, we would like to poll for IPR.

=C2=A0

If you are aware of IPR that applies to draft-ietf-s= pring-srv6-network-programming [1] please respond to this email. If you are= aware of IPR, please indicate whether it has been

disclosed in accordance with IETF IPR rules (RFCs 39= 79, 4879, 3669 and 5378 provide more details).

=C2=A0

If you are an *author or contributor* please respond= to this email regardless of whether or not you're aware of any IPR.

=C2=A0

This document will not advance until IPR confirmatio= ns have been received from all authors and contributors.

=C2=A0

Thank you,

Bruno

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

____________________________________________________= _____________________________________________________________________

=C2=A0

Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir de= s informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc=

pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisa= tion. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler<= u>

a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les piec= es jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,=

Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a = ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci.

=C2=A0

This message and its attachments may contain confide= ntial or privileged information that may be protected by law;=

they should not be distributed, used or copied witho= ut authorisation.

If you have received this email in error, please not= ify the sender and delete this message and its attachments.

As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for m= essages that have been modified, changed or falsified.

Thank you.

=C2=A0

_______________________________________________

spring mailing list

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

_______________________________________________
spring mailing list
spr= ing@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring<= /a>
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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Folks, This draft version looks much better. Please consider the following change in Section 3.1: OLD> L, the locator length, is flexible, and an operator is free to use the loca= tor length of their choice. LOC MUST be drawn from a globally addressable IPv6 unicast prefix or one of= the following Special Purpose IPv6 Prefixes [RFC 6890]: - Benchmarking (i.e., testing only) - Documentation (i.e., testing only) - Unique-Local L, the locator length, MUST be less than or equal to the length of the pref= ix from which LOC was drawn.

Folks,

 

This draft version looks much better. =

 

Please consider the following change in Section 3= .1:

 

OLD>

L, the locator length, is flexible, and an operat= or is free to use the locator length of their choice.

<OLD

 

NEW>

LOC MUST be drawn from a globally addressable IPv= 6 unicast prefix or one of the following Special Purpose IPv6 Prefixes [RFC= 6890]:

 

- Benchmarking (i.e., testing only)

- Documentation (i.e., testing only)

- Unique-Local

 

L, the locator length, MUST be less than or equal= to the length of the prefix from which LOC was drawn.

<NEW

 

 

Juniper Business Use Only

 


Juniper Business= Use Only

--_000_BN7PR05MB56992E37F9A6B9390AAEF4ABAE550BN7PR05MB5699namp_-- From nobody Thu Dec 12 11:22:17 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2749B120A21 for ; Thu, 12 Dec 2019 11:22:08 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=raszuk.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WEf6pvYuuzfW for ; Thu, 12 Dec 2019 11:22:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qv1-xf33.google.com (mail-qv1-xf33.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::f33]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 26482120152 for ; Thu, 12 Dec 2019 11:22:05 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qv1-xf33.google.com with SMTP id k10so1408980qve.7 for ; Thu, 12 Dec 2019 11:22:05 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=raszuk.net; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=1Baz2YLRAbPnaTi27nt9G+o5Jv3nZWN2ApwEswefbME=; b=cJkcR34NGcBTA+jjQ+6ps4/J/DvdyVHzoCzu6Lh2UDVlYKs6O84sbMJdEUlocNr836 BsRaCDFBm75pT3AkGKMDUqVwlBvReDiJICr3leixTO7rZBocagx5yti1G9UwjpzNo8o9 8/Kk3tMpU1fg3LltczBFGscVrsoAT6B5C+I5Pw9UnkR5opue1tYx+M24Qt9T498t576y WOzvjzT6PSAyXTPyB7R+Cy6OKzSV06YyuGoE3/4facJzH1RzutEzuRn222HLxP4EDHxI UfsqMRBBtBOY9XnU3H+QG/eCCjeBtniQvGDkFWn+UWLw8Vc9D/077w1CT3Nwt5Rieok1 S7Ug== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=1Baz2YLRAbPnaTi27nt9G+o5Jv3nZWN2ApwEswefbME=; b=jjq7JTGwmQxnfyGGogOgALrZuvpN006oHVfJoNe/PtmfwwL59JIFkguoYIj8Nx971Z GjDSpe2hAfvKOoBcfCVkLWS9RJvQ3ZcgyFPYqqfWCDM9wI8IoLXVIuQ5fp9S83yxwAS9 K64GcX/sntodPxw36EA3C28l4NUcsrUw2dO5l24sTy6+7CuqcH/ik/uvQ7Dx9prnUhfz ZS44mf70EidoBXSg0ESzaIeyMbg8COLGnJNyQoZgnwO2QmIjAI+2w1ufjvVtGYBRPMmh SAa3b4qoKyFK7Xe2mdaQr0VKOyPA1bnU3g0AiBim5pDOKqzXf17RTMeiNcA+dEsLtjFb GFIw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVM0AIY/m4CqK5vh4DefZ2BdGurhOrjleWUlVnPGMjdlPN5hb7i g1izONoa8EhR8UaSUxBBwLNnI+C573M4dan0vC5XFQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwiEwJSv7xdW+rJKFu24x2cqYQHKjoocGHeUlTpt0j45RiTdIAuuvgCyHfR7Ug0XFG8fQK2qssI+uYc4gAdlgI= X-Received: by 2002:a0c:efc4:: with SMTP id a4mr8527875qvt.230.1576178523880; Thu, 12 Dec 2019 11:22:03 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <3e31873a-278a-2154-0e71-4d820bba323d@gont.com.ar> <4012D854-2F10-4476-951D-FFFE73C5083C@gmail.com> <28214_1567694772_5D711FB4_28214_238_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48BFA9F3@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <129bbb32-0f14-b799-430c-8f76fb6b1279@gont.com.ar> <1824_1575998223_5DEFD30F_1824_112_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D24EBD@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <4384c08a-65f5-dbfb-85c7-8365feba9662@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: From: Robert Raszuk Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2019 20:21:54 +0100 Message-ID: To: Gyan Mishra Cc: "6man@ietf.org" <6man@ietf.org>, Brian E Carpenter , Fernando Gont , Ron Bonica , Suresh Krishnan , draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming , draft-voyer-6man-extension-header-insertion , "spring@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000004eccc059986a9e0" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] SRH scratch space (was Re: Question about SRv6 Insert function) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2019 19:22:12 -0000 --00000000000004eccc059986a9e0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Thank you. Yes this draft can work with controller, but can also work without one. Please observe that I am (re)using BGP extension to propagate control plane information which can originate from any network element not necessarily a central controller. Nevertheless using it with conjunction of some oracle to optimize global network TE or steer some packets towards selected SFCs is by all means a sound approach. Kind regards, Robert On Thu, Dec 12, 2019 at 7:54 PM Gyan Mishra wrote: > > > On Wed, Dec 11, 2019 at 3:37 AM Robert Raszuk wrote: > >> Hi Brian, >> >> > Each SR node (Segment Endpoint) is effectively applying new IPv6 encap >>> so is already doing an insertion of new SRH >>> >>> That isn't "insertion" in the sense of draft-voyer. >> >> >> Correct. But we are not discussing draft-voyer here. >> >> I think recent mail threads prove that it is much better to discuss one >> topic at a time rather then mix three different and pretty orthogonal >> "issues" interchangeably. >> >> >>> . It's prepending an extra layer of encapsulation, which is indeed just >>> fine and I don't think anyone here is objecting to it. The spring draft >>> currently uses (IMHO) imprecise language, even in its pseudo-code, but if >>> all it's doing is describing successive layers of encapsulation that's fine >>> too. Wasted bytes perhaps, but that isn't an IETF problem. >> >> >> Great that we agree. >> >> >>> Whether prepending new headers, each with their own SRH, is the best way >>> of doing service-based traffic engineering is another question. Having just >>> reviewed draft-ietf-bess-nsh-bgp-control-plane for Gen-ART, I do believe >>> there's more than one possible approach. >>> >> >> 100% agreed. In fact as you may have seen I have another non data plane, >> but control plane proposal posted: >> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-raszuk-teas-ip-te-np-00 >> >> Kind regards, >> R. >> > > Robert > > Your ip-te teas WG draft sounds like a fine solution and maybe can be > used in conjunction with Gen-ART sfc draft in centralized SDN controller > based architecture. So with draft is pulls the control plane function or > Ti-LFA and SR-TE and/or binding SID policies into control plane nodes which > could be the PEs eliminating SRH state in the P core. So this in essence > using this feature we would save on overhead bytes with the additional 6in6 > encap plus SRH state. > > Warm regards, > > Gyan > >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> IETF IPv6 working group mailing list >> ipv6@ietf.org >> Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > -- > > Gyan S. Mishra > > IT Network Engineering & Technology > > Verizon Communications Inc. (VZ) > > 13101 Columbia Pike FDC1 3rd Floor > > Silver Spring, MD 20904 > > United States > > Phone: 301 502-1347 > > Email: gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com > > www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies-consultant > > --00000000000004eccc059986a9e0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thank you.=C2=A0

Yes this draft can wor= k with controller, but can also work without one.=C2=A0

Please observe that I am (re)using BGP extension to propagate control= plane information which can originate from any network element not necessa= rily=C2=A0a central controller. Nevertheless using it with conjunction=C2= =A0of some oracle to optimize global network=C2=A0TE or steer some packets = towards selected SFCs is by all means a sound approach.=C2=A0
Kind regards,
Robert

On Thu, Dec 12, 2019 at 7:5= 4 PM Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@g= mail.com> wrote:


On Wed, Dec 11, 2019 at 3:37 AM Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net&g= t; wrote:
Hi Brian,

> Each SR no= de (Segment Endpoint) is effectively applying new IPv6 encap so is already = doing an insertion of new SRH

That isn't "insertion" in the sense of draft-voyer.

Correct. But we are not discussing draft-voyer=C2=A0= here.=C2=A0

I think recent mail threads prove that= it is much better to discuss one topic at a=C2=A0time rather then mix thre= e different and pretty orthogonal "issues" interchangeably.=C2=A0=
=C2=A0
= =C2=A0. It's prepending an extra layer of encapsulation, which is indee= d just fine and I don't think anyone here is objecting to it. The sprin= g draft currently uses (IMHO) imprecise language, even in its pseudo-code, = but if all it's doing is describing successive layers of encapsulation = that's fine too. Wasted bytes perhaps, but that isn't an IETF probl= em.

Great that we agree.
=C2=A0
Whether prependin= g new headers, each with their own SRH, is the best way of doing service-ba= sed traffic engineering is another question. Having just reviewed draft-iet= f-bess-nsh-bgp-control-plane for Gen-ART, I do believe there's more tha= n one possible approach.

100% agreed. I= n fact as you may have seen I have another non data plane, but control plan= e proposal posted:=C2=A0https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-rasz= uk-teas-ip-te-np-00

Kind regards,
R.=

=C2=A0 Robert=C2=A0

= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Your ip-te teas WG draft sounds like a fine solution and mayb= e can be used in conjunction with Gen-ART sfc draft in centralized SDN cont= roller based architecture.=C2=A0 So with draft is pulls the control plane f= unction or Ti-LFA and SR-TE and/or binding SID policies into control plane = nodes which could be the PEs eliminating SRH state in the P core.=C2=A0 So = this in essence using this feature we would save on overhead bytes with the= additional 6in6 encap plus SRH state.

Warm regards,

Gyan

--------------------------------------------------------------------
IETF IPv6 working group mailing list
ipv6@ietf.org
Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/list= info/ipv6
--------------------------------------------------------------------
--

Gyan S. Mishra<= span style=3D"color:rgb(80,0,80);background-image:initial;background-positi= on:initial;background-repeat:initial">

IT Network Engineering & Technology=C2=A0=

Verizon Communications=C2=A0Inc. (VZ)=

13101 Columbia Pike FDC1 3rd Floor

=

Silver Spring, MD 20904

United States<= span style=3D"color:rgb(80,0,80);background-image:initial;background-positi= on:initial;background-repeat:initial">

Phone:=C2=A0301 502-1347

Email:=C2=A0gyan.s.mishra@verizon.= com

www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies-co= nsultant


--00000000000004eccc059986a9e0-- From nobody Thu Dec 12 11:30:10 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F4D11200BA for ; Thu, 12 Dec 2019 11:30:09 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=raszuk.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3ebMd_zWWbo3 for ; Thu, 12 Dec 2019 11:30:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qt1-x82d.google.com (mail-qt1-x82d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::82d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 63360120024 for ; Thu, 12 Dec 2019 11:30:07 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qt1-x82d.google.com with SMTP id p5so122967qtq.12 for ; Thu, 12 Dec 2019 11:30:07 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=raszuk.net; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=K3Ld2j0WZ3fM4VZOp29Mr8sOCuC+jhqriUFEn40IHyY=; b=DgRx2ZWQTuf9OBPl7Wo0dnN0HIy1gR1r1yyGPSlBrmdfsliR6xCneAv1AnooYs74I7 b5kQRbkb5hMLEb1IGqARDe+Vdvq24zTs7DeI9ZxgQVo7Azv7gfzj4zvHkcxyx4Ba5S5O PA8YO/O12BkOFgkRfJpA2v6H4+2ruRgsjhT3W3mwrwbPWdKn9A0Iw3Z7tvRyQNqbCq+5 mpafSTcIc/i8cJIcINnUYFuzfcBXov2g+wMSpxLazMuU2fsCPDbJvLgObUal5vATe8m+ sRXxZxZNnOWd+tVhz0XHsE0+R8woh3K/yXStLtQhPmjKR1VsuwQsvawfzp0+YTZlJNX/ ZmPA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=K3Ld2j0WZ3fM4VZOp29Mr8sOCuC+jhqriUFEn40IHyY=; b=IWIB1RufjBKCuW1fLsEwKGVRKbAHAtjCpPD5ZjKHrsDx5n0hF7i7GzyPidQ7VVYhgE GDxdDuMO8Vmal4P/1yyLKaCMNUnVYQPRpMgsuEbj58ZN9HTJAP0nXsBLOkhnaGUpXvzr cnrqdKPTZaHXJhn4sHC9//jZWnEbrDZSRGQtujxN8HscWYr1aj8+2ohnGT61g/NBZ+vF aqGlPU4l/pkgbEpF4s7IECLpU4YYihYyFCbTVJ8X4Hi6QJVzsmtsU72EHTl/5Tpueo6o gQJ1eRQxyQ6ui8cdl7+bCHu8c7f29OWkdPlvwQulKlcNiMFwlKUWIoLfaaEfHl/Vh+nt ld9g== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVqMVUu+mskMYb2SB1nfh7iFc/TtLNL8x0HRylJsTA4xawf1JkS yiZwTMBPvM7FCxsg0VdI9SbpgIroy1igxqEU9mXaBf5YhVVFrA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxoG7I1dOIQVdwRw/wbPbUy/+AI/60JhzQZTPtS8oKlzCEG6QYnIjOxc90m4ePbPCZJwnjawZfpv9nFcfKT8Zg= X-Received: by 2002:ac8:a8b:: with SMTP id d11mr8791212qti.94.1576179006394; Thu, 12 Dec 2019 11:30:06 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Robert Raszuk Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2019 20:29:56 +0100 Message-ID: To: Ron Bonica Cc: "spring@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000c77157059986c5b3" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-06 - locators X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2019 19:30:09 -0000 --000000000000c77157059986c5b3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Folks, I recommend to either update the below proposed text with explicit addition of RFC4193 Unique Local IPv6 Unicast Addresses as a possible pool or forget about this proposed change below all together. Kind regards, R. On Thu, Dec 12, 2019 at 8:21 PM Ron Bonica wrote: > Folks, > > > > This draft version looks much better. > > > > Please consider the following change in Section 3..1: > > > > OLD> > > L, the locator length, is flexible, and an operator is free to use the > locator length of their choice. > > > > > NEW> > > LOC MUST be drawn from a globally addressable IPv6 unicast prefix or one > of the following Special Purpose IPv6 Prefixes [RFC 6890]: > > > > - Benchmarking (i.e., testing only) > > - Documentation (i.e., testing only) > > - Unique-Local > > > > L, the locator length, MUST be less than or equal to the length of the > prefix from which LOC was drawn. > > > > > > > Juniper Business Use Only > > > > Juniper Business Use Only > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > --000000000000c77157059986c5b3 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Folks,

I recommend to = either update the below proposed text with explicit addition of RFC4193=C2= =A0Unique Local IPv6 Unicast Addresses as a possible pool or forget about t= his proposed change below all together.

Kind regar= ds,
R.

On Thu, Dec 12, 2019 at 8:21 PM Ron Bonica <rbonic= a=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.iet= f.org> wrote:

Folks,

=C2=A0

This draft version looks much better.

=C2=A0

Please consider the following change in Section 3..1:

=C2=A0

OLD>

L, the locator length, is flexible, and an operator is free to use the l= ocator length of their choice.

<OLD

=C2=A0

NEW>

LOC MUST be drawn from a globally addressable IPv6 unicast prefix or one= of the following Special Purpose IPv6 Prefixes [RFC 6890]:

=C2=A0

- Benchmarking (i.e., testing only)

- Documentation (i.e., testing only)

- Unique-Local

=C2=A0

L, the locator length, MUST be less than or equal to the length of the p= refix from which LOC was drawn.

<NEW

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Juniper Business Use Only

=C2=A0


Juniper Business Use Only

_______________________________________________
spring mailing list
spring@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
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boundary="_000_BN7PR05MB56990E5D3CFC1CD912DD2705AE550BN7PR05MB5699namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: e049d6cb-10af-4f24-363e-08d77f3d53f9 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 12 Dec 2019 19:56:07.3788 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: NUZa+KDvs+A5AOeV2cUqwhIdtMnLHNAdyNlmgruxSD0XTI8JcHyEEcSGUalbKsobT6hodjhoy8uVYM5Y3RFjRA== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN7PR05MB4467 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.95,18.0.572 definitions=2019-12-12_06:2019-12-12,2019-12-12 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_spam_notspam policy=outbound_spam score=0 clxscore=1015 adultscore=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 mlxscore=0 bulkscore=0 phishscore=0 mlxlogscore=817 spamscore=0 impostorscore=0 priorityscore=1501 lowpriorityscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-1910280000 definitions=main-1912120151 Archived-At: Subject: [spring] draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming - Extraneous functions X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2019 19:56:13 -0000 --_000_BN7PR05MB56990E5D3CFC1CD912DD2705AE550BN7PR05MB5699namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Folks, Are there use cases for the following functions: * 0x001F - END with PSP, USP and USD * 0x0023 - END.X with PSP, USP and USD * 0x0027 - END.X with PSP, USP and USD It seems that if the SRH was removed at the penultimate segment, there is l= ittle sense in removing it again at the ultimate segment. = Ron Juniper Business Use Only --_000_BN7PR05MB56990E5D3CFC1CD912DD2705AE550BN7PR05MB5699namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Folks,

 

Are there use cases for the following functions:

 

  • 0x001F – END with PSP, USP and USD
  • 0x0023 = – END.X with PSP, USP and USD
  • 0x0027 - END.X wit= h PSP, USP and USD

 

It seems that if the SRH was removed at the penultim= ate segment, there is little sense in removing it again at the ultimate seg= ment.

 

        &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;   Ron


Juniper Business= Use Only

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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Robert, RFC 6890 refers to RFC4193 Unique Local IPv6 Unicast Addresses as "Unique L= ocal". So, I used that terminology. But you are probably correct. We should call them RFC 4193 ULA. = Ron From: Robert Raszuk Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2019 2:30 PM To: Ron Bonica Cc: spring@ietf.org Subject: Re: [spring] draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-06 - locat= ors Folks, I recommend to either update the below proposed text with explicit addition= of RFC4193 Unique Local IPv6 Unicast Addresses as a possible pool or forge= t about this proposed change below all together. Kind regards, R. On Thu, Dec 12, 2019 at 8:21 PM Ron Bonica > wrote: Folks, This draft version looks much better. Please consider the following change in Section 3..1: OLD> L, the locator length, is flexible, and an operator is free to use the loca= tor length of their choice. LOC MUST be drawn from a globally addressable IPv6 unicast prefix or one of= the following Special Purpose IPv6 Prefixes [RFC 6890]: - Benchmarking (i.e., testing only) - Documentation (i.e., testing only) - Unique-Local L, the locator length, MUST be less than or equal to the length of the pref= ix from which LOC was drawn. https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring Juniper Business Use Only --_000_BN7PR05MB569939663A4CF1B7BF332C68AE550BN7PR05MB5699namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Robert,

 

RFC 6890 refers to RFC4193 Unique Local IPv6 Un= icast Addresses as “Unique Local”. So, I used that terminology.=

 

But you are probably correct. We should call them RF= C 4193 ULA.

 

        &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;      Ron

 

 

 

From: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>=
Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2019 2:30 PM
To: Ron Bonica <rbonica@juniper.net>
Cc: spring@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [spring] draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-06 = - locators

 

Folks,

 

I recommend to either update the below proposed text= with explicit addition of RFC4193 Unique Local IPv6 Unicast Addresses= as a possible pool or forget about this proposed change below all together= .

 

Kind regards,

R.

 

On Thu, Dec 12, 2019 at 8:21 PM Ron Bonica <rboni= ca=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ie= tf.org> wrote:

Folks,

 

This draft version looks much better.

 

Please consider the following change in Section 3..1:

 

OLD>

L, the locator length, is flexible, and an operator is free to use the l= ocator length of their choice.

<OLD

 

NEW>

LOC MUST be drawn from a globally addressable IPv6 unicast prefix or one= of the following Special Purpose IPv6 Prefixes [RFC 6890]:

 

- Benchmarking (i.e., testing only)

- Documentation (i.e., testing only)

- Unique-Local

 

L, the locator length, MUST be less than or equal to the length of the p= refix from which LOC was drawn.

<NEW

 

 

Juniper Business Use Only

 

 

Juniper Business Use Only=

_______________________________________________
spring mailing list
spring@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spr= ing

 

Juniper Business Use Only

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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Authors, Looking more closely at the IANA registry, it seems that you have reserved = 8 code points for each of the END, END.X and END.T functions. These 8 codep= oints cover all permutations of PSP, USP, and USD. However, the following permutations make little sense: * and because you can only pop the SRH once * , because it is identical to Also, is there a use-case for USP, alone? = Ron Juniper Business Use Only From: Ron Bonica Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2019 2:56 PM To: spring@ietf.org Subject: draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming - Extraneous functions Folks, Are there use cases for the following functions: * 0x001F - END with PSP, USP and USD * 0x0023 - END.X with PSP, USP and USD * 0x0027 - END.X with PSP, USP and USD It seems that if the SRH was removed at the penultimate segment, there is l= ittle sense in removing it again at the ultimate segment. = Ron Juniper Business Use Only --_000_BN7PR05MB5699D98703B89670972CAF31AE550BN7PR05MB5699namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Authors,

 

Looking more closely at the IANA registry, it seems = that you have reserved 8 code points for each of the END, END.X and END.T f= unctions. These 8 codepoints cover all permutations of PSP, USP, and USD.

 

However, the following permutations make little sens= e:

 

  • <USD, PSP, USP> and <PSP, USP> because you can only pop t= he SRH once
  • <USD and USP>, because it is identic= al to <USD>

 

Also, is there a use-case for USP, alone?=

 

        &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;       Ron

 

 

 

Juniper Business Use Only

From: Ron Bonica
Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2019 2:56 PM
To: spring@ietf.org
Subject: draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming - Extraneous fun= ctions

 

Folks,

 

Are there use cases for the following functions:

 

  • 0x001F – END with PSP, USP and USD
  • 0x0023 = – END.X with PSP, USP and USD
  • 0x0027 - END.X wit= h PSP, USP and USD

 

It seems that if the SRH was removed at the penultim= ate segment, there is little sense in removing it again at the ultimate seg= ment.

 

        &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;   Ron

 

Juniper Business Use Only

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Hi Ron,

 

I think the same SID=A3=ACsuch as you mention, May be included i= n different SRH of different packets, so the same SID have different behavi= or in different packet whose SRH include it.

 

 

Cheers!

 

Wang Weibin

 

From: spring <spring-bounces@ietf.org> = On Behalf Of Ron Bonica
Sent: 2019=C4=EA12=D4=C213=C8=D5 3:56
To: spring@ietf.org
Subject: [spring] draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming - Extra= neous functions

 

Folks,

 

Are there use cases for the following functions:

 

  • 0x001F =A8C END with PSP, USP and USD
  • 0x0023 =A8= C END.X with PSP, USP and USD
  • 0x0027 - END.X with PSP,= USP and USD

 

It seems that if the SRH was removed at the penultim= ate segment, there is little sense in removing it again at the ultimate seg= ment.

 

        &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;   Ron

 

Juniper Business Use Only

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APXvYqzxuUI/PC4/RjDpANKgvgTtj3Gchk797/CFegAyZqESXDS5GewFe+TiB3e0gBitZqkH7g1K9YIgdrlNoqZKxx4= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6830:1d91:: with SMTP id y17mr13490118oti.276.1576237319663; Fri, 13 Dec 2019 03:41:59 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Nat Kao Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2019 19:41:48 +0800 Message-ID: To: spring@ietf.org Cc: Nat Kao Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000085461f059994597d" Archived-At: Subject: [spring] Different MSDs for different traffic types on the same headend. X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2019 11:42:02 -0000 --00000000000085461f059994597d Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hello, SPRING WG. How do we deal with an SR-TE policy headend with different MSDs for different types of traffic? For example, a headend H can impose: 6 transport labels for plain IPv4 packets; 5 transport labels + 1 IPv6 ExpNull label for plain IPv6 packets; 3 transport labels + 3 VPN labels for VPN packets. a) For a plain IPv4 route R4 and a VPN route Rv both steered into the SR-TE policy P1 with SID list , what will H perform in this situation? b) What is the MSD of H? 6, 5 or 3? Thanks, Nat. --00000000000085461f059994597d Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello, SPRING WG.

How do we deal with an SR-TE policy he= adend with different MSDs for different types of traffic?
For exam= ple, a headend H can impose:
6 transport labels for plain IPv4 packets;<= br>5 transport labels + 1 IPv6 ExpNull label for plain IPv6 packets;
3 transport labels=C2=A0+ 3 VPN=C2=A0 labels for VPN packets.
<= br>
a) For a plain IPv4 route R4 and a VPN route Rv both steered into = the SR-TE policy P1 with SID list <S1, S2, S3, S4, S5>, what will H p= erform in this situation?
b) What is the MSD of H? 6, 5 or 3?
<= div>
Thanks,
Nat.
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([2400:2411:8900:0:e46b:2ac9:80c8:bb02]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id s130sm10490018pgc.82.2019.12.13.04.33.13 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 13 Dec 2019 04:33:14 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.0 \(3601.0.10\)) From: Satoru Matsushima In-Reply-To: <26660_1575564615_5DE93547_26660_39_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D1A2A9@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2019 21:33:12 +0900 Cc: draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <5FC664AC-5921-4F48-B791-19E7C0199563@gmail.com> References: <26660_1575564615_5DE93547_26660_39_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D1A2A9@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> To: SPRING WG List X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3601.0.10) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] IPR poll for draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2019 12:33:19 -0000 Hi, I=E2=80=99m not aware of any undisclosed IPR related to this draft. Cheers, --satoru > 2019/12/06 1:50=E3=80=81bruno.decraene@orange.com=E3=81=AE=E3=83=A1=E3=83= =BC=E3=83=AB: >=20 > Hi SPRING WG, >=20 > In parallel to the WGLC for = draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming, we would like to poll for = IPR. >=20 > If you are aware of IPR that applies to = draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming [1] please respond to this = email. If you are aware of IPR, please indicate whether it has been > disclosed in accordance with IETF IPR rules (RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and = 5378 provide more details). >=20 > If you are an *author or contributor* please respond to this email = regardless of whether or not you're aware of any IPR.=20 >=20 > This document will not advance until IPR confirmations have been = received from all authors and contributors. >=20 > Thank you, > Bruno >=20 > [1] = https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-05 >=20 >=20 > = __________________________________________________________________________= _______________________________________________ >=20 > Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations = confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc > pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez = recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler > a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les = messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, > Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, = deforme ou falsifie. Merci. >=20 > This message and its attachments may contain confidential or = privileged information that may be protected by law; > they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. > If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and = delete this message and its attachments. > As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have = been modified, changed or falsified. > Thank you. >=20 > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring From nobody Fri Dec 13 06:04:12 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE3F812011D; Fri, 13 Dec 2019 06:04:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.5 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.5 tagged_above=-999 required=5 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Hi Authors:

 

I look at the following SIDs function again, and I i= ndeed fail to find useful meaning of the combination of USP & USD, as w= ell as {PSP & USP & USD}.

Given that there are no 2 or more successive SRH ins= tances in one packet in this draft, So Regardless of which specific packet = whose SRH instance include the same SID below in last location, the final b= ehavior of these SIDs in different packet=A1=AFs SRHs are always the same, either USP or USD, it is up to the= execution order among the USD and USP, because these SIDs are executed in = last node of segment list and their pre-condition is same, i.e =A1=B0 if {s= egment left =3D=3D0}=A1=B1 in same location in Pseudocode module.

Do you give a use case to explain for them, for exam= ple, the one SID below of one SRH instance has behavior for USP, at the sam= e time, the same SID of another SRH instance of another packet has behavior= for USD.

 

0x001E |  End with USP= &USD

0x0022 |  End.X with U= SP&USD

0x0026 |  End.T with U= SP&USD

 

 

 

Cheers!

 

Wang Weibin

 

From: Wang, Weibin (NSB - CN/Shanghai)
Sent: 2019= =C4=EA12=D4= =C213=C8=D5<= /span> 8:06
To: 'Ron Bonica' <rbonica=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>; spr= ing@ietf.org
Subject: RE: draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming - Extraneous= functions

 

Hi Ron,

 

I think the same SID=A3=ACsuch as you mention, May be included i= n different SRH of different packets, so the same SID have different behavi= or in different packet whose SRH include it.

 

 

Cheers!

 

Wang Weibin

 

From: spring <spring-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Ron Bonica
Sent: 2019=C4=EA12=D4=C213=C8=D5 3:56
To: spring@ietf.org
Subject: [spring] draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming - Extra= neous functions

 

Folks,

 

Are there use cases for the following functions:

 

  • 0x001F =A8C END with PSP, USP and USD
  • 0x0023 =A8= C END.X with PSP, USP and USD
  • 0x0027 - END.X with PSP,= USP and USD

 

It seems that if the SRH was removed at the penultim= ate segment, there is little sense in removing it again at the ultimate seg= ment.

 

        &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;   Ron

 

Juniper Business Use Only

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X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2019 18:42:42 -0000 --5df3db9e_46263dec_872b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Hi Nat, Please read=C2=A0https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8491=23section-5 Currently defined MSD types are: 1: BMI 2: ERLD Specifically to BMI: Base MPLS Imposition MSD (BMI-MSD) signals the total number of MPLS=C2=A0= labels that can be imposed, including all service/transport/special=C2=A0= labels. The answer to your question is 6 Cheers, Jeff On Dec 13, 2019, 3:42 AM -0800, Nat Kao , wrote: > Hello, SPRING WG. > > How do we deal with an SR-TE policy headend with different MSDs for dif= ferent types of traffic=3F > =46or example, a headend H can impose: > 6 transport labels for plain IPv4 packets; > 5 transport labels + 1 IPv6 ExpNull label for plain IPv6 packets; > 3 transport labels=C2=A0+ 3 VPN=C2=A0 labels for VPN packets. > > a) =46or a plain IPv4 route R4 and a VPN route Rv both steered into the= SR-TE policy P1 with SID list , what will H perform = in this situation=3F > b) What is the MSD of H=3F 6, 5 or 3=3F > > Thanks, > Nat. > =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F > spring mailing list > spring=40ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring --5df3db9e_46263dec_872b Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline
Hi Nat,

Please read&=23160;https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8= 491=23section-5
Currently defined MSD types are:&=23160;
1: BMI
2: ERLD

Specifically to BMI:
Base MPLS Imposition MSD (BMI-MSD) signals the tota= l number of MPLS&=23160;labels that can be imposed, includi= ng all service/transport/special&=23160;labels.
The answer to your question is 6

Cheers,
Jeff
On Dec 13, 2019, 3:42 AM -0800, Nat= Kao <lekao=40pyxisworks.org>, wrote:
Hello, SPRING WG.

How do we deal with an SR-TE policy headend with different MSDs for diffe= rent types of traffic=3F
=46or example, a headend H can impose:
6 transport labels for plain IPv4 packets;
5 transport labels + 1 IPv6 ExpNull label for plain IPv6 packets;
3 transport labels&=23160;+ 3 VPN&=23160; labels for VPN packets.

a) =46or a plain IPv4 route R4 and a VPN route Rv both steered into the S= R-TE policy P1 with SID list <S1, S2, S3, S4, S5>, what will H perf= orm in this situation=3F
b) What is the MSD of H=3F 6, 5 or 3=3F

Thanks,
Nat.
=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F
spring mailing list
spring=40ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
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14B231200D6 for ; Fri, 13 Dec 2019 14:14:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from dc5cmy-d00.bellca.int.bell.ca (HELO DG1MBX04-WYN.bell.corp.bce.ca) ([198.235.121.229]) by esa01corp-dor.bell.corp.bce.ca with ESMTP; 13 Dec 2019 17:14:09 -0500 Received: from DG1MBX04-WYN.bell.corp.bce.ca (2002:8eb6:120e::8eb6:120e) by DG1MBX04-WYN.bell.corp.bce.ca (2002:8eb6:120e::8eb6:120e) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1473.3; Fri, 13 Dec 2019 17:14:09 -0500 Received: from DG1MBX04-WYN.bell.corp.bce.ca ([fe80::615a:b316:d0f6:8b6c]) by DG1MBX04-WYN.bell.corp.bce.ca ([fe80::615a:b316:d0f6:8b6c%22]) with mapi id 15.00.1473.003; Fri, 13 Dec 2019 17:14:09 -0500 From: "Voyer, Daniel" To: "Xiejingrong (Jingrong)" , "spring@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [EXT]Re: [spring] Is srv6 PSP a good idea Thread-Index: AQHVsgKjYcjkTdPeG0y33ySTkvbV/Q== Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2019 22:14:08 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: 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YyBsZXMgbGllbnMgZXQgZG9jdW1lbnRzIGpvaW50cw0KICAgIA0KICAgIA0KDQo= From nobody Fri Dec 13 14:25:40 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 068181200F5 for ; Fri, 13 Dec 2019 14:25:39 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.698 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.698 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=joelhalpern.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JCIPLvdaV3lK for ; Fri, 13 Dec 2019 14:25:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailb2.tigertech.net (mailb2.tigertech.net [208.80.4.154]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6F49E120059 for ; Fri, 13 Dec 2019 14:25:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailb2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47ZQGn2pf6z1nsyl; Fri, 13 Dec 2019 14:25:37 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=joelhalpern.com; s=2.tigertech; t=1576275937; bh=0o9ApNKTvJ8Z1Sh/VSr1DVQFWZziE3KCbLB0/9tbFaI=; h=Subject:To:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=aznQpIJ2ktw33mupE/MUcf9A3nanv6KiQndSVtoEVe3tpOpwRoa5TMkkZoiMOJDSb nr6i3hC0p+UKmMEdDi/op7VxbiF+4lbt6NX9xn//wOjNq9gtLlkB+rHJ8OxFa2bChz IqBJxn1j3B625zN/WwY0zcZx+kwKfL8SeHecVIrU= X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at b2.tigertech.net Received: from [192.168.128.43] (209-255-163-147.ip.mcleodusa.net [209.255.163.147]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mailb2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 47ZQGm5dh5z1nsyj; Fri, 13 Dec 2019 14:25:36 -0800 (PST) To: "Voyer, Daniel" , "spring@ietf.org" References: From: "Joel M. Halpern" Message-ID: <0f00cda3-480c-f568-e4c2-a591c7fd260d@joelhalpern.com> Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2019 17:25:33 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Is srv6 PSP a good idea X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2019 22:25:39 -0000 That is an udnerstandable argument, ... except: It does not acknowledge that there is a cost for this capability, or discuss the tradeoff. PSP clearly has a cost. Also, that does not match my reading of the definition of the SR domain. In fact, it becomes very confusing as to whether the PE is or is not part of the SR domain, since there is nothing in that scenario that requires any control participation from the egress PE. Many of the SRv6 arguments rely heavily on the notion of domain. Blurring that boundary makes things quite confusing. For example, if the egress PE does not understand SRv6 data plane behavior, can it enforce teh requisite boundary properties? Yours, Joel On 12/13/2019 5:14 PM, Voyer, Daniel wrote: > I agree 100% with Jingrong, > > PSP allows us to bring SRv6 to legacy PE devices that are not capable of processing the SRH in the dataplane, but are capable of supporting SRv6 in the control plane. > > See this example: > I am streaming traffic from a server to a customer; > The ingress PE (near the server) encapsulates the packet and adds an SRH with a low-latency list of segments; > The penultimate node in the SRH executes PSP; > The egress PE (near the customer) decapsulates the IPv6 header and forwards the inner packet to the customer. > > We can include SLA unidirectionally from the server to the customer even though that the egress PE has a legacy ASIC. Legacy equipment are a reality and are not easy to replace, hence interoperability with brownfield is key for any innovative approach. > > dan > > On 2019-12-10, 11:15 PM, "spring on behalf of Xiejingrong (Jingrong)" wrote: > > I think it's a good idea. > Nothing new, but benefits that people have already said seems notable to me. > > (1) reduce the load of final destination. This benefit can be notable for the following sub reasons. > (1.1) final destination tends to have heavy load. It need to handle all the EHs and do the delivery/demultiplex the packet to the right overlay service. > (1.2) example 1, the final destination may need to handle the DOH after the RH. > (1.3) example 2, the final destination may need to do the assembly of fragmented packets. > (1.4) example 3, the final destination may need to do AH/ESP after the Fragmentation Header. > (1.5) example 4, the final destination may need to deliver the packet to the right overlay service. > > (2) support the incremental deployment when final destination(s) do not process/recognize SRH. This benefit can be notable for the following sub reasons. > (2.1) A core router may (fan-out) connected with a big number of low-end routers that do not support SRH but support tunnel-end/service-demultiplex function of SRv6. > > Thanks > Jingrong > > -----Original Message----- > From: spring [mailto:spring-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Joel M. Halpern > Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2019 10:55 AM > To: spring@ietf.org > Subject: [spring] Is srv6 PSP a good idea > > For purposes of this thread, even if you think PSP violates RFC 8200, let us assume that it is legal. > > As I understand it, the PSP situation is: > o the packet arrives at the place (let's not argue about whether SIDs are locators) identified by the SID in the destination address field o that SID is the next to last SID in the SID list o that sid is marked as / known to be PSP o at the intended place in the processing pseudocode, the last (first) entry in the SRH is copied into the destination IPv6 address field of the packet > -> The SRH being used is then removed from the packet. > > In order to evaluate whether this is a good idea, we have to have some idea of the benefit. It may be that I am missing some of the benefit, and I would appreciate clarification. > As far as I can tell, the benefit of this removal is that in exchange for this node doing the work of removing the SRH, the final node in the SRH does not have to process the SRH at all, as it has been removed. > > I have trouble seeing how that work tradeoff can be beneficial. > Removing bytes from the middle of a packet is a complex operation. > Doing so in Silicon (we expect this to be done in the fast path of significant forwarders as I understand it) requires very special provision. Even in software, removing bytes from the middle of a packet requires somewhere between some and a lot of extra work. It is distinctly NOT free. > > In contrast, we have assumed that the work of processing SRH itself is tractable, since otherwise all of SRv6 would be problematic. So why is this necessary. > > Yours, > Joel > > PS: Note that both the MPLS case and the encapsulation case are very different in that the material being removed is at the front of the IP packet. Pop or prepend are MUCH easier than middle-removal (or middle-insertion). > > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > External Email: Please use caution when opening links and attachments / Courriel externe: Soyez prudent avec les liens et documents joints > > > > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > From nobody Fri Dec 13 16:58:35 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CEB631200A4; Fri, 13 Dec 2019 16:58:33 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.357 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.357 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DATE_IN_PAST_06_12=1.543, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WN01C3S5CU6e; Fri, 13 Dec 2019 16:58:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from fgont.go6lab.si (fgont.go6lab.si [91.239.96.14]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EBC63120019; Fri, 13 Dec 2019 16:58:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.10.159] (unknown [181.198.117.10]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by fgont.go6lab.si (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id CD784868F9; Sat, 14 Dec 2019 01:58:27 +0100 (CET) To: Suresh Krishnan Cc: SPRING WG , Ron Bonica , "int-ads@ietf.org" , Andrew Alston , rtg-ads , Bob Hinden , Ole Troan , Brian E Carpenter References: <4255AD3B-379C-45BF-96E1-D3D9141A684F@liquidtelecom.com> <3bce7b18-ea45-d29f-5dfb-1d3258b07d1e@si6networks.com> <80A78F48-9802-4DA9-B264-1A8920C1DDF9@kaloom.com> <6bc831ce-326f-3648-6e6f-4c715b2a49ac@si6networks.com> <858E25C2-36FA-4E37-A70C-72D9DEA1BF3D@kaloom.com> <4541b6ff-ce45-5839-32ee-3b52397126e5@si6networks.com> From: Fernando Gont Autocrypt: addr=fgont@si6networks.com; 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Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.2.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Non-final destination address (was Re: Penultimate Segment Popping and RFC8200 (Was Re: We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping))) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2019 00:58:34 -0000 On 12/12/19 22:56, Suresh Krishnan wrote: > Hi Fernando, > >> On Dec 11, 2019, at 7:22 PM, Fernando Gont > > wrote: >> [....] >>> >>> RFC8200 *clearly* speaks about the possibility of the destination >>> address not being the ultimate recipient in the presence of a Routing >>> Header. This is from Section 3 defining the Destination Address as >>> "128-bit address of the intended recipient of the packet (possibly >>> not the ultimate recipient, if a Routing header is present).†>> >> Section 4.4 says: >>   The Routing header is used by an IPv6 source to list one or more >>   intermediate nodes to be "visited" on the way to a packet's >>   destination. >> >> (contrasts this to the statement with eh insertion/removal/processing) >> >> While there could have been better use of terms, do you really think >> that RFC8200 is allowing EH insertion/removal at waypoints? Or do you >> think that, at best, the wording in RFC8200 could have been better? > > For sure, I think the text in RFC8200 could have been more specific one > way or another but it is impossible to tell at this point which > direction the WG would have gone. IPv6 has never allowed for EH insertion/deletion on the path to the final destination. As noted, there are way too many things that would break (PMTUD, AH, etc.). If I understand correctly, the discussion here is regarding that current state of affairs, and not about the possibility that the wg might, at some point, decide to change the current spec. That's why I've filled an errata, btw. Thanks, -- Fernando Gont SI6 Networks e-mail: fgont@si6networks.com PGP Fingerprint: 6666 31C6 D484 63B2 8FB1 E3C4 AE25 0D55 1D4E 7492 From nobody Fri Dec 13 23:43:06 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C2FF1201DB for ; Fri, 13 Dec 2019 23:43:04 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=pyxisworks-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rF4ealrrZuVF for ; Fri, 13 Dec 2019 23:43:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ot1-x32b.google.com (mail-ot1-x32b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::32b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 71E3C1201B7 for ; Fri, 13 Dec 2019 23:43:02 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ot1-x32b.google.com with SMTP id d17so2097033otc.0 for ; Fri, 13 Dec 2019 23:43:02 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=pyxisworks-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=aX30H3qRoGg9kFTdcL2qUVbmy/ZHo7bEndMd38wCmes=; b=dIHibiyM94Mal/hje8T5Wj5cOn0ryrPpbfKPYJ1QJfsrtFA259HgnWP0ZM4NsiZK6t crPpj5czVLuK5PultamW0XOjf7O5U0SaXN3u87d6xCL8LVbVxAgas7tPLEwwsDGqLgp1 5yAVEA3qgwlozaGnQQJuekIcijr3rRDO/FmBsQrer5A8k7dVq2eLBoUPYTwbQyQ2qNfJ C61AzOZSpYYJggbpdJLBwt5u5q8mcAlydbzILvuDdFufuyrxVuXJrBfVHfav2jwBAa73 bHUR8IOk+ixNjEB+Q5HOYPCrcXzSudHCqPcbpQGx2Z0aIxpNdw/QnqXmRO12cWcPhtKS D1gA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=aX30H3qRoGg9kFTdcL2qUVbmy/ZHo7bEndMd38wCmes=; b=hHquwGueIwXL8BSB/8hAiAczyNDgQth/3lSe+YVqgpeymhtTUr1ADuMaiiJyHK/mK7 3ux6+GEq75G6odSOMz6QZ8ULqU9ylszInGK1tBoviQCx/9rldv36m9hjKzhDrCVC1+aw 35Gu4XL3m9RBeqrOzFULEgzQWzZTm9CfwozZbWId2Q8ZwusFfjPXG7OJDmP6ouWY11Wx xWTb93cmnzy41Q3RKZM+Psg7nznMF6Qw99EB+uqcMhRqvsgqBHc7DhNuNjdotVpcpCJ6 RPP+My6IFtpAeHgksy+tWh1xI2UvZ66WWq3CkAThG65DmAIHwkg/x24bqMYMGP9r7hWq lUsw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVhDb2U6t95SIX3XQUxCoNG2G4qOB/MzPWPsZhDxY12KcRcf3FK mIdD4w5Q6fGGGWuv5+OeK9DZyoOEMgWFZBdD1yzFIg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzXs6L9dnaE5lcR2CkXYR23B4qGqcMO6nt7diiKlE0jFBVks6X9Kp1qJkJujLGb+b/rxaZ0fklGEq0DRsZs+nw= X-Received: by 2002:a9d:7410:: with SMTP id n16mr19867362otk.23.1576309381405; Fri, 13 Dec 2019 23:43:01 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <38b14bf5-b6d9-4d46-ad1d-d26d3376df51@Spark> In-Reply-To: <38b14bf5-b6d9-4d46-ad1d-d26d3376df51@Spark> From: Nat Kao Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2019 15:42:48 +0800 Message-ID: To: Jeff Tantsura , spring@ietf.org Cc: Nat Kao Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000bc31300599a520a6" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Different MSDs for different traffic types on the same headend. X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2019 07:43:04 -0000 --000000000000bc31300599a520a6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi, Jeff. Thanks for the BMI-MSD reference. If I understand correctly: BMI-MSD = Transport Label Depth + Service Label Depth Only former can be utilized by SR-TE policies. Currently do we have any method to determine the composition of BMI? We need to know the transport label depth when doing service route per-destination steering. This problem arises when trying to steer a plain IPv4 route and a VPN service route into the same SR-TE policy that exceeds the transport label depth of the service route. I'm trying to figure out the standard behavior in this case since the headend we use currently produces some interesting results. Regards, Nat. On Sat, Dec 14, 2019 at 2:42 AM Jeff Tantsura wrote: > Hi Nat, > > Please read https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8491#section-5 > Currently defined MSD types are: > 1: BMI > 2: ERLD > > Specifically to BMI: > Base MPLS Imposition MSD (BMI-MSD) signals the total number of MPLS labels > that can be imposed, including all service/transport/special labels. > The answer to your question is 6 > > Cheers, > Jeff > On Dec 13, 2019, 3:42 AM -0800, Nat Kao , wrote: > > Hello, SPRING WG. > > How do we deal with an SR-TE policy headend with different MSDs for > different types of traffic? > For example, a headend H can impose: > 6 transport labels for plain IPv4 packets; > 5 transport labels + 1 IPv6 ExpNull label for plain IPv6 packets; > 3 transport labels + 3 VPN labels for VPN packets. > > a) For a plain IPv4 route R4 and a VPN route Rv both steered into the > SR-TE policy P1 with SID list , what will H perform in > this situation? > b) What is the MSD of H? 6, 5 or 3? > > Thanks, > Nat. > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > > --000000000000bc31300599a520a6 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi, Jeff.

Thanks for the BMI= -MSD reference. If I understand correctly:

BMI-MSD =3D Transport Label Depth + Service Label Depth
Only fo= rmer can be utilized by SR-TE policies.

Curr= ently do we have any method to determine the composition of BMI?
=
We need to know the transport label depth when doing servic= e route per-destination steering.

This problem arises when trying to steer a plain IPv4 route and a VPN= service route into the same SR-TE policy that exceeds the transport label = depth of the service route. I'm trying to figure out the standard behav= ior in this case since the headend we use currently produces some interesti= ng results.

Regards,
Nat.
<= /div>
O= n Sat, Dec 14, 2019 at 2:42 AM Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Nat,

Currently defined MSD types are:=C2=A0
1: BMI
2: ERLD

Specifically to BMI:
Base MPLS Imposition MSD (BMI-MSD) signals the total numb= er of MPLS=C2=A0labels that can be imposed, including all service/tra= nsport/special=C2=A0labels.
The answer to your question is 6

Cheers,
Jeff
On Dec 13, 2019, 3:42 AM -0800, Nat Kao &= lt;lekao@pyxiswor= ks.org>, wrote:
Hello, SPRING WG.

How do we deal with an SR-TE policy headend with different MSDs for differe= nt types of traffic?
For example, a headend H can impose:
6 transport labels for plain IPv4 packets;
5 transport labels + 1 IPv6 ExpNull label for plain IPv6 packets;
3 transport labels=C2=A0+ 3 VPN=C2=A0 labels for VPN packets.

a) For a plain IPv4 route R4 and a VPN route Rv both steered into the SR-TE= policy P1 with SID list <S1, S2, S3, S4, S5>, what will H perform in= this situation?
b) What is the MSD of H? 6, 5 or 3?

Thanks,
Nat.
_______________________________________________
spring mailing list
spring@ietf.org = https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
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Halpern" , "spring@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [spring] Is srv6 PSP a good idea Thread-Index: AQHVr85jMV33kJTkH0WlnUgh9KVMGKe15N2AgAAa+oCAA3bfgA== Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2019 09:42:21 +0000 Message-ID: References: <5c2a4b36-0c59-709e-23eb-00f4aa1ce52f@joelhalpern.com> <9B89F4C2-5594-4D31-8893-21F3F4A0DF6C@cisco.com> <0f9eb3d1-77c0-2132-cad9-e23277ce6a07@joelhalpern.com> In-Reply-To: <0f9eb3d1-77c0-2132-cad9-e23277ce6a07@joelhalpern.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-GB X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/10.20.0.191208 authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=pcamaril@cisco.com; x-originating-ip: [88.27.141.80] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 854f5554-3c4e-4039-e978-08d78079eb33 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: MWHPR11MB1424: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:10000; x-forefront-prvs: 025100C802 x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; 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Halpern" , "spring@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [spring] Is srv6 PSP a good idea Thread-Index: AQHVr85jMV33kJTkH0WlnUgh9KVMGKe0UwiAgAGR8gCAASTbAIACcQKA Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2019 09:57:08 +0000 Message-ID: References: <5c2a4b36-0c59-709e-23eb-00f4aa1ce52f@joelhalpern.com> <16253F7987E4F346823E305D08F9115AABAEB42B@nkgeml514-mbx.china.huawei.com> <21AFAEDA-F3B0-45AA-AE49-EB4E5FB73918@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-GB X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/10.20.0.191208 authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=pcamaril@cisco.com; x-originating-ip: [88.27.141.80] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 6809ae14-c2ca-4996-b905-08d7807bfba5 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: MWHPR11MB1277: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:8882; x-forefront-prvs: 025100C802 x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; 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X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: xTjUJDF9VvYX2btbCQ2/PsLt9/GLlT4DDtbCawQSLG4TIYoJmWZcl4m4cxHiKJoDS0Gl7UlromX/h4t/N99r1A== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: MWHPR11MB1277 X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.36.7.17, xch-aln-007.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: alln-core-12.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Is srv6 PSP a good idea X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2019 09:57:15 -0000 SGkgRGF2ZSwNCg0KVGhhbmsgeW91IGZvciBwYXJ0aWNpcGF0aW5nIGluIHRoZSBkaXNjdXNzaW9u Lg0KDQpJIGZhaWwgdG8gc2VlIGhvdyBpdCAiZnJhZ21lbnRhdGlvbiBiZWNvbWVzIHBhcnRpY3Vs YXJseSB1Z2x5Ii4gV2hhdCBpcyB0aGUgbmVnYXRpdmUgaW1wYWN0IHRvIHRoZSBmaW5hbCBkZXN0 aW5hdGlvbj8gSSBiZWxpZXZlIHRoZXJlIGlzIG5vbmUuDQpJbnR1aXRpdmVseSBJIHRlbmQgdG8g 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X19fX19fX18NCiAgICAgICAgc3ByaW5nIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdA0KICAgICAgICBzcHJpbmdAaWV0 Zi5vcmcNCiAgICAgICAgaHR0cHM6Ly91cmxkZWZlbnNlLmNvbS92My9fX2h0dHBzOi8vd3d3Lmll dGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vc3ByaW5nX187ISFORXQ2eU1hTy1nayFTOWh0MWlLZXZ3 WEt4aE5MSndQQU92aXF4RXR0RF9JajNvckw3NlRqZjZqMHp4eGd4TUt3aE1KOGl1VDhoeWMwJCAN CiAgICAgICAgDQogICAgDQoNCg== From nobody Sat Dec 14 08:07:38 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C89CA1200E9 for ; Sat, 14 Dec 2019 08:07:36 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2NTrqvQ9MACQ for ; Sat, 14 Dec 2019 08:07:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4102C1200C4 for ; Sat, 14 Dec 2019 08:07:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.108]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 8BE00F81B97BD5D143C9 for ; Sat, 14 Dec 2019 16:07:28 +0000 (GMT) Received: from NKGEML412-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.73) by lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.45) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Sat, 14 Dec 2019 16:07:27 +0000 Received: from NKGEML514-MBX.china.huawei.com ([fe80::40a8:f0d:c0f3:2ca5]) by nkgeml412-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.73]) with mapi id 14.03.0439.000; Sun, 15 Dec 2019 00:07:18 +0800 From: "Xiejingrong (Jingrong)" To: "Joel M. Halpern" , "spring@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [spring] Is srv6 PSP a good idea Thread-Index: AQHVr85pqRHz/5ypkk2U+Q8DzMRbEae0UE7wgAAk5ICABVSpbQ== Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2019 16:07:18 +0000 Message-ID: <16253F7987E4F346823E305D08F9115AABAEF03A@nkgeml514-mbx.china.huawei.com> References: <5c2a4b36-0c59-709e-23eb-00f4aa1ce52f@joelhalpern.com> <16253F7987E4F346823E305D08F9115AABAEB42B@nkgeml514-mbx.china.huawei.com>, In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US, zh-CN Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.45.220.244] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Is srv6 PSP a good idea X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2019 16:07:37 -0000 Hi Joel,=0A= =0A= Regrading this question:=0A= Do you have any comments on what appears to be the significant increase=0A= in complexity on the device performing PSP? =0A= =0A= I think the removal of some bytes from an packet header is a common case wi= thout any significant increasing complexity for a long time.=0A= For example, a Layer-2 switch receives an ethernet frame from a port with a= vlan tag, and forwards/switches it to another port without a vlan tag, the= n it strips the 2 bytes of vlan tag value and 2 bytes of 0x8100. The 4 byte= s are in the middle of the ethernet header and the ip header, which otherwi= se would not need to be stripped if it's the case from a tag port to anothe= r tag port.=0A= =0A= I found this in my book, "Network system design using network processors" b= y Douglas E. Comer 2004.=0A= On page 38 "4.12 Operation and Data Chaining", introduced modern NICs use a= technique known as =93operation chaining or command chaining=94 instead of= operating on a single large buffer.=0A= Which makes me believe that, the removal of some bytes from some packet hea= der (L2 or L3 header), would not cause the 1500 bytes of packet be moved, b= ut instead a very basic function that various packet processors have solved= very long ago as a basic function of "header/packet modification".=0A= =0A= Hope the above understanding is right.=0A= =0A= Thanks=0A= Jingrong=0A= =0A= ________________________________________=0A= From: spring [spring-bounces@ietf.org] on behalf of Joel M. Halpern [jmh@jo= elhalpern.com]=0A= Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2019 22:15=0A= To: spring@ietf.org=0A= Subject: Re: [spring] Is srv6 PSP a good idea=0A= =0A= Thank you Jingrong for providing some of the other motivations. Two=0A= furhter comments.=0A= =0A= As far as I know, the only savings on the end box is the processing for=0A= noticing the SRH, noticing that SL is 0 and there are no relevant TLVs,=0A= and then moving on.=0A= =0A= If the actual end device is not part of the SR domain, I assume that=0A= encapsulation would have been used, so I think it is reasoanble to=0A= assume that in the PSP case the end device is SR capable.=0A= =0A= Do you have any comments on what appears to be the significant increase=0A= in complexity on the device performing PSP? The question I am trying to=0A= get at is about the tradeoff, which needs one to evaluate both sides.=0A= =0A= Yours,=0A= Joel=0A= =0A= On 12/10/2019 11:13 PM, Xiejingrong (Jingrong) wrote:=0A= > I think it's a good idea.=0A= > Nothing new, but benefits that people have already said seems notable to = me.=0A= >=0A= > (1) reduce the load of final destination. This benefit can be notable for= the following sub reasons.=0A= > (1.1) final destination tends to have heavy load. It need to handle all t= he EHs and do the delivery/demultiplex the packet to the right overlay serv= ice.=0A= > (1.2) example 1, the final destination may need to handle the DOH after t= he RH.=0A= > (1.3) example 2, the final destination may need to do the assembly of fra= gmented packets.=0A= > (1.4) example 3, the final destination may need to do AH/ESP after the Fr= agmentation Header.=0A= > (1.5) example 4, the final destination may need to deliver the packet to = the right overlay service.=0A= >=0A= > (2) support the incremental deployment when final destination(s) do not p= rocess/recognize SRH. This benefit can be notable for the following sub rea= sons.=0A= > (2.1) A core router may (fan-out) connected with a big number of low-end = routers that do not support SRH but support tunnel-end/service-demultiplex = function of SRv6.=0A= >=0A= > Thanks=0A= > Jingrong=0A= >=0A= > -----Original Message-----=0A= > From: spring [mailto:spring-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Joel M. Halper= n=0A= > Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2019 10:55 AM=0A= > To: spring@ietf.org=0A= > Subject: [spring] Is srv6 PSP a good idea=0A= >=0A= > For purposes of this thread, even if you think PSP violates RFC 8200, let= us assume that it is legal.=0A= >=0A= > As I understand it, the PSP situation is:=0A= > o the packet arrives at the place (let's not argue about whether SIDs are= locators) identified by the SID in the destination address field o that SI= D is the next to last SID in the SID list o that sid is marked as / known t= o be PSP o at the intended place in the processing pseudocode, the last (fi= rst) entry in the SRH is copied into the destination IPv6 address field of = the packet=0A= > -> The SRH being used is then removed from the packet.=0A= >=0A= > In order to evaluate whether this is a good idea, we have to have some id= ea of the benefit. It may be that I am missing some of the benefit, and I = would appreciate clarification.=0A= > As far as I can tell, the benefit of this removal is that in exchange for= this node doing the work of removing the SRH, the final node in the SRH do= es not have to process the SRH at all, as it has been removed.=0A= >=0A= > I have trouble seeing how that work tradeoff can be beneficial.=0A= > Removing bytes from the middle of a packet is a complex operation.=0A= > Doing so in Silicon (we expect this to be done in the fast path of signif= icant forwarders as I understand it) requires very special provision. Even= in software, removing bytes from the middle of a packet requires somewhere= between some and a lot of extra work. It is distinctly NOT free.=0A= >=0A= > In contrast, we have assumed that the work of processing SRH itself is tr= actable, since otherwise all of SRv6 would be problematic. So why is this = necessary.=0A= >=0A= > Yours,=0A= > Joel=0A= >=0A= > PS: Note that both the MPLS case and the encapsulation case are very diff= erent in that the material being removed is at the front of the IP packet. = Pop or prepend are MUCH easier than middle-removal (or middle-insertion).= =0A= >=0A= > _______________________________________________=0A= > spring mailing list=0A= > spring@ietf.org=0A= > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring=0A= >=0A= =0A= _______________________________________________=0A= spring mailing list=0A= spring@ietf.org=0A= https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring=0A= From nobody Sat Dec 14 12:04:35 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 582EB120026 for ; Sat, 14 Dec 2019 12:04:34 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9I5TUAhioLnz for ; Sat, 14 Dec 2019 12:04:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pg1-x543.google.com (mail-pg1-x543.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::543]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2E69812000F for ; Sat, 14 Dec 2019 12:04:32 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pg1-x543.google.com with SMTP id q127so1295048pga.4 for ; Sat, 14 Dec 2019 12:04:32 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=40pEbScl0NL1+vWsbOHJsSqjQ/nYcuT0lzxa7uQHBjs=; b=ocTG4bSzo+7mbeXhGjaFEyLCILQ19+Ss4k+PXCQXFd5gYVpQEcVB2FRJsvwgrSOH06 U7QSd6LOH+nAyUtJwlPXXU9yoNkO+4w/SPE+biqazJR9qgIKc+tKglC81nrMZEfwdAjf 5yHEME7AjiM4PEGL8v4g8RbR84hFc5G+w5xosPensVuNE6wppIhe9kgIFKdcD5fvqO2J LU3OU072GV0RwhaopPQc4SfsjX4zPqJJlGLqhjaw/LbqioJDUkkbMhRAB2EJY0ffI658 IlR1vT/EZH9RNGbbnjlwXDmMRaNhqkR/BLh/AUH32jHv9USL814sutvvXm26efibxzlP FWMw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=40pEbScl0NL1+vWsbOHJsSqjQ/nYcuT0lzxa7uQHBjs=; b=cevDAWUECn64rzkjB+ebHwgf7iieLT0jrip/2cs/AxJJ+EKYJ5giOUVxS938k/mQcI 05p7MBBf0W2eH2amsYbY3ePl+reK5Y1KtJWRLMDRb3PSjXVqQ0IfkPuf5X2/BWjmjvuR w2bmQ97mGng2ijlU4KG7+dkie1WjnLnP1oNzdcQEXX2b8KQ1cP588xyEt8/vzGmWKln3 lo6M6ceCumIkTKBktQ2YvGBdbUtGth6BX6mGiKqSn/pmx+IeJzwNOmCAOeDR3hUdKj1f D9bugD8p/NqxseG8qGNGvLvZH2ZHY0dLoNLWqFf/kcZzQv/j1J89+9led8JVdTGUNWf3 s8rg== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAV6T7Xfv55FH7JImu+rZI1z2Cwl0L3HGAJOqjf9YAX1LkMyOon8 Wct6w3tNdd+j0vtTDwSBPR7xGaro X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxOZ5Y1oBVP95jD02ZY/lZ+C5CzKxL3tHYew3Z7eeFmVv7hSL0Sl2YWTyUPQi+tNNr8FGFQcQ== X-Received: by 2002:aa7:9aa5:: with SMTP id x5mr6991701pfi.131.1576353871318; Sat, 14 Dec 2019 12:04:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.178.30] (228.147.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz. [111.69.147.228]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id b2sm17027190pff.6.2019.12.14.12.04.29 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 14 Dec 2019 12:04:30 -0800 (PST) To: "Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)" , "spring@ietf.org" References: <157609408568.11496.11799785813274132900@ietfa.amsl.com> <4c762fc5-8a61-e182-a9cc-d45b0f586ccc@gmail.com> <3A12D735-7899-4679-8FC8-DF8875D40A62@cisco.com> From: Brian E Carpenter Message-ID: <628e5dfb-7ba4-d841-ebeb-cfc52d7294f1@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2019 09:04:28 +1300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <3A12D735-7899-4679-8FC8-DF8875D40A62@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] I-D Action: draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-06.txt X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2019 20:04:34 -0000 Hi Pablo, See in line: On 14-Dec-19 22:34, Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril) wrote: > Brian, >=20 > Many thanks for having another look to the draft. Please see inline [PC= ]. >=20 > Thank you, > Pablo. >=20 > =EF=BB=BF-----Original Message----- > From: spring on behalf of Brian E Carpenter <= brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> > Date: Wednesday, 11 December 2019 at 23:06 > To: "spring@ietf.org" > Subject: Re: [spring] I-D Action: draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-progra= mming-06.txt >=20 > So, I've tried to look at this with fresh eyes, and thanks for the > various updates and clarifications. > =20 > (I'm still not on the SPRING list so please leave me in CC.) > =20 > I remain a bit puzzled. First, a quote from the SRH specification > (draft-ietf-6man-segment-routing-header-26): > =20 > > 4.2. Transit Node > >=20 > > As specified in [RFC8200], the only node allowed to inspect th= e > > Routing Extension Header (and therefore the SRH), is the node > > corresponding to the DA of the packet. Any other transit node= MUST > > NOT inspect the underneath routing header and MUST forward the= packet > > toward the DA according to its IPv6 routing table. > =20 > Next, a quote from the current draft: > =20 > > SRH[n]: A shorter representation of Segment List[n], as define= d in > > [I-D.ietf-6man-segment-routing-header]. > >=20 > > When a packet is intercepted on a wire, it is possible that SR= H[SL] > > is different from the DA. > =20 > Huh? That would be extremely unusual in the normal interpretation > of a routing header, where is RH[SL] is by definition the next > destination where the RH will be processed. Any other node is a tra= nsit > node, and I don't see anything in draft-ietf-6man-segment-routing-h= eader-26 > that allows for anything else. So it seems to me that the quoted st= atement > needs an explanation of why it isn't a violation of > draft-ietf-6man-segment-routing-header-26, not to mention why it's = useful. >=20 > PC: This occurs when we use the reduced SRH as described in: https://to= ols.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-6man-segment-routing-header-26#section-4.1.1= OK, well that definitely needs to be added to the draft, since it is very= far from obvious to a newcomer. > If you think this sentence does not reflect that, I can edit it for the= next revision of the draft.=20 > =20 > That leads us back to: > =20 > > 4.16.1. PSP: Penultimate Segment Pop of the SRH > >=20 > > The SRH processing of the End, End.X and End.T behaviors are > > modified: after the instruction "S14. Update IPv6 DA with Seg= ment > > List[Segments Left]" is executed, the following instructions m= ust be > > executed as well: > >=20 > > S14.1. If (Segments Left =3D=3D 0) { > > S14.2. Update the Next Header field in the preceding header= to the > > Next Header value of the SRH > > S14.3. Decrease the IPv6 header Payload Length by the Hdr E= xt Len > > value of the SRH > > S14.4. Remove the SRH from the IPv6 extension header chain > > S14.5. } > =20 > This is clearly a breach of RFC8200, but it can never be reached if= DA =3D=3D SRH[SL].=20 > PC: PSP executes at the segment that is the Destination Address. I am probably being stupid, but I don't understand what is "penultimate" = about a condition where SL =3D=3D 0 and the packet has reached the node that ow= ns DA. Where will the packet be sent next, since it's already at the final DA? (The example at https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-filsfils-spring-srv6-net-pgm-illustrati= on-01#section-2.8.1 doesn't help me in the least. Is there a conceptual discussion of the pur= pose of PSP?) If the packet is to be forwarded again, "Remove the SRH from the IPv6 extension header chain" violates RFC 8200, as does "Decrease the IPv6 hea= der Payload Length by the Hdr Ext Len value of the SRH". This objection doesn't seem to arise for USP, since presumably at that po= int the packet has reached the final DA and any mangling is internal to the h= ost. =20 > The operation "4.16.2. USP: Ultimate Segment Pop of the SRH" seems= like > a pointless variant on "4.16.3. USD: Ultimate Segment Decapsulatio= n",=20 > since the packet has reached its destination anyway and will presum= ably > be decapsulated anyway.=20 >=20 > PC: This has already been discussed in the past in the SPRING mailer. h= ttps://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/Q3MYlGDQs5MO-dOFOZJUx2hHni4 Yes, OK, the offload NIC as a use case is reasonable. As far as the netwo= rk is concerned, that is internal to the host. But some hint about the purpo= se and value of these features is needed in the draft, IMHO. Regards Brian > =20 > Regards > Brian Carpenter > =20 > On 12-Dec-19 08:54, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote: > >=20 > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Draft= s directories. > > This draft is a work item of the Source Packet Routing in Network= ing WG of the IETF. > >=20 > > Title : SRv6 Network Programming > > Authors : Clarence Filsfils > > Pablo Camarillo Garvia > > John Leddy > > Daniel Voyer > > Satoru Matsushima > > Zhenbin Li > > Filename : draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-06.= txt > > Pages : 39 > > Date : 2019-12-11 > >=20 > > Abstract: > > The SRv6 Network Programming framework enables a network opera= tor or > > an application to specify a packet packet processing program b= y > > encoding a sequence of instructions in the IPv6 packet header.= > >=20 > > Each instruction is implemented on one or several nodes in the= > > network and identified by an SRv6 Segment Identifier in the pa= cket. > >=20 > > This document defines the SRv6 Network Programming concept and= > > specifies the base set of SRv6 behaviors that enables the crea= tion of > > interoperable overlays with underlay optimization (Service Lev= el > > Agreements). > >=20 > >=20 > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-p= rogramming/ > >=20 > > There are also htmlized versions available at: > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-progra= mming-06 > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-spring-srv6-netw= ork-programming-06 > >=20 > > A diff from the previous version is available at: > > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ= k-programming-06 > >=20 > >=20 > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of= submission > > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.o= rg. > >=20 > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > >=20 > > _______________________________________________ > > I-D-Announce mailing list > > I-D-Announce@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce > > Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html > > or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt > >=20 > =20 > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > =20 >=20 From nobody Sat Dec 14 15:03:38 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53FFD120088 for ; 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Sat, 14 Dec 2019 15:03:33 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <5c2a4b36-0c59-709e-23eb-00f4aa1ce52f@joelhalpern.com> <16253F7987E4F346823E305D08F9115AABAEB42B@nkgeml514-mbx.china.huawei.com> <16253F7987E4F346823E305D08F9115AABAEF03A@nkgeml514-mbx.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <16253F7987E4F346823E305D08F9115AABAEF03A@nkgeml514-mbx.china.huawei.com> From: Mark Smith Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2019 10:03:22 +1100 Message-ID: To: "Xiejingrong (Jingrong)" Cc: "Joel M. Halpern" , SPRING WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000d061bd0599b1fc20" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Is srv6 PSP a good idea X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2019 23:03:36 -0000 --000000000000d061bd0599b1fc20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, 15 Dec 2019, 03:07 Xiejingrong (Jingrong), wrote: > Hi Joel, > > Regrading this question: > Do you have any comments on what appears to be the significant increase > in complexity on the device performing PSP? > > I think the removal of some bytes from an packet header is a common case > without any significant increasing complexity for a long time. > For example, a Layer-2 switch receives an ethernet frame from a port with > a vlan tag, and forwards/switches it to another port without a vlan tag, > then it strips the 2 bytes of vlan tag value and 2 bytes of 0x8100. The 4 > bytes are in the middle of the ethernet header and the ip header, which > otherwise would not need to be stripped if it's the case from a tag port = to > another tag port. > According to Radia Perlman, in her book, "Interconnections", 2nd edition, this was a work around to some NICs at the time not supporting sending and receiving frames large enough to do full Ethernet-in-Ethernet tunnelling to add VLAN information. Cisco had implemented a pre-standard version of VLAN tagging - Inter-Switch Link (ISL), which is what had inspired the IEEE to standardise VLAN tagging. This used E-in-E tunnelling. This was possible because Cisco knew what its hardware was capable of. https://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/support/docs/lan-switching/8021q/17056-741-4.= html The checksum (FCS) of a frame is calculated at the sender (identified by SA), so that the intended receiver (identified by the DA) can determine if the frame was corrupted in flight. VLAN tag insertion violates this end-to-end function of the checksum, because the checksum is recalculated when VLAN tags are added. When the frame arrives at the DA, the checksum isn't validating the frame that was sent by the SA, it is only validating the frame that was sent by the last device to remove the VLAN tag that then recalculated and updated the checksum. Those who designed IEEE tagging didn't do insertion because they wanted to or thought it was a good idea. They didn't have a choice if they wanted to be available with existing Ethernet chipsets. > I found this in my book, "Network system design using network processors" > by Douglas E. Comer 2004. > On page 38 "4.12 Operation and Data Chaining", introduced modern NICs use > a technique known as =E2=80=9Coperation chaining or command chaining=E2= =80=9D instead of > operating on a single large buffer. > Which makes me believe that, the removal of some bytes from some packet > header (L2 or L3 header), would not cause the 1500 bytes of packet be > moved, but instead a very basic function that various packet processors > have solved very long ago as a basic function of "header/packet > modification". > > Hope the above understanding is right. > > Thanks > Jingrong > > ________________________________________ > From: spring [spring-bounces@ietf.org] on behalf of Joel M. Halpern [ > jmh@joelhalpern.com] > Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2019 22:15 > To: spring@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [spring] Is srv6 PSP a good idea > > Thank you Jingrong for providing some of the other motivations. Two > furhter comments. > > As far as I know, the only savings on the end box is the processing for > noticing the SRH, noticing that SL is 0 and there are no relevant TLVs, > and then moving on. > > If the actual end device is not part of the SR domain, I assume that > encapsulation would have been used, so I think it is reasoanble to > assume that in the PSP case the end device is SR capable. > > Do you have any comments on what appears to be the significant increase > in complexity on the device performing PSP? The question I am trying to > get at is about the tradeoff, which needs one to evaluate both sides. > > Yours, > Joel > > On 12/10/2019 11:13 PM, Xiejingrong (Jingrong) wrote: > > I think it's a good idea. > > Nothing new, but benefits that people have already said seems notable t= o > me. > > > > (1) reduce the load of final destination. This benefit can be notable > for the following sub reasons. > > (1.1) final destination tends to have heavy load. It need to handle all > the EHs and do the delivery/demultiplex the packet to the right overlay > service. > > (1.2) example 1, the final destination may need to handle the DOH after > the RH. > > (1.3) example 2, the final destination may need to do the assembly of > fragmented packets. > > (1.4) example 3, the final destination may need to do AH/ESP after the > Fragmentation Header. > > (1.5) example 4, the final destination may need to deliver the packet t= o > the right overlay service. > > > > (2) support the incremental deployment when final destination(s) do not > process/recognize SRH. This benefit can be notable for the following sub > reasons. > > (2.1) A core router may (fan-out) connected with a big number of low-en= d > routers that do not support SRH but support tunnel-end/service-demultiple= x > function of SRv6. > > > > Thanks > > Jingrong > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: spring [mailto:spring-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Joel M. > Halpern > > Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2019 10:55 AM > > To: spring@ietf.org > > Subject: [spring] Is srv6 PSP a good idea > > > > For purposes of this thread, even if you think PSP violates RFC 8200, > let us assume that it is legal. > > > > As I understand it, the PSP situation is: > > o the packet arrives at the place (let's not argue about whether SIDs > are locators) identified by the SID in the destination address field o th= at > SID is the next to last SID in the SID list o that sid is marked as / kno= wn > to be PSP o at the intended place in the processing pseudocode, the last > (first) entry in the SRH is copied into the destination IPv6 address fiel= d > of the packet > > -> The SRH being used is then removed from the packet. > > > > In order to evaluate whether this is a good idea, we have to have some > idea of the benefit. It may be that I am missing some of the benefit, an= d > I would appreciate clarification. > > As far as I can tell, the benefit of this removal is that in exchange > for this node doing the work of removing the SRH, the final node in the S= RH > does not have to process the SRH at all, as it has been removed. > > > > I have trouble seeing how that work tradeoff can be beneficial. > > Removing bytes from the middle of a packet is a complex operation. > > Doing so in Silicon (we expect this to be done in the fast path of > significant forwarders as I understand it) requires very special > provision. Even in software, removing bytes from the middle of a packet > requires somewhere between some and a lot of extra work. It is distinctl= y > NOT free. > > > > In contrast, we have assumed that the work of processing SRH itself is > tractable, since otherwise all of SRv6 would be problematic. So why is > this necessary. > > > > Yours, > > Joel > > > > PS: Note that both the MPLS case and the encapsulation case are very > different in that the material being removed is at the front of the IP > packet. Pop or prepend are MUCH easier than middle-removal (or > middle-insertion). > > > > _______________________________________________ > > spring mailing list > > spring@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > > > > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > --000000000000d061bd0599b1fc20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Sun, 15 Dec 2019, 03:07 Xiejingrong (Jingrong), <= ;xiejingrong@huawei.com> wrote:=
Hi Joel,

Regrading this question:
Do you have any comments on what appears to be the significant increase
in complexity on the device performing PSP?

I think the removal of some bytes from an packet header is a common case wi= thout any significant increasing complexity for a long time.
For example, a Layer-2 switch receives an ethernet frame from a port with a= vlan tag, and forwards/switches it to another port without a vlan tag, the= n it strips the 2 bytes of vlan tag value and 2 bytes of 0x8100. The 4 byte= s are in the middle of the ethernet header and the ip header, which otherwi= se would not need to be stripped if it's the case from a tag port to an= other tag port.


According to Radia Perlman, in h= er book, "Interconnections", 2nd edition, this was a work around = to some NICs at the time not supporting sending and receiving frames large = enough to do full Ethernet-in-Ethernet tunnelling to add VLAN information.<= /div>

Cisco had implemented a = pre-standard version of VLAN tagging - Inter-Switch Link (ISL), which is wh= at had inspired the IEEE to standardise VLAN tagging. This used E-in-E tunn= elling. This was possible because Cisco knew what its hardware was capable = of.



The checksum (FCS) of a frame is calculated at the sender (id= entified by SA), so that the intended receiver (identified by the DA) can d= etermine if the frame was corrupted in flight.

<= /div>
VLAN tag insertion violates this end-to-end function= of the checksum, because the checksum is recalculated when VLAN tags are a= dded.

When the frame arr= ives at the DA, the checksum isn't validating the frame that was sent b= y the SA, it is only validating the frame that was sent by the last device = to remove the VLAN tag that then recalculated and updated the checksum.

Those who designed IEEE tag= ging didn't do insertion because they wanted to or thought it was a goo= d idea. They didn't have a choice if they wanted to be available with e= xisting Ethernet chipsets.


I found this in my book, "Network system design using network processo= rs" by Douglas E. Comer 2004.
On page 38 "4.12 Operation and Data Chaining", introduced modern = NICs use a technique known as =E2=80=9Coperation chaining or command chaini= ng=E2=80=9D instead of operating on a single large buffer.
Which makes me believe that, the removal of some bytes from some packet hea= der (L2 or L3 header), would not cause the 1500 bytes of packet be moved, b= ut instead a very basic function that various packet processors have solved= very long ago as a basic function of "header/packet modification"= ;.

Hope the above understanding is right.

Thanks
Jingrong

________________________________________
From: spring [spring-bounc= es@ietf.org] on behalf of Joel M. Halpern [jmh@joelhalpern.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2019 22:15
To: spring@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [spring] Is srv6 PSP a good idea

Thank you Jingrong for providing some of the other motivations.=C2=A0 Two furhter comments.

As far as I know, the only savings on the end box is the processing for
noticing the SRH, noticing that SL is 0 and there are no relevant TLVs,
and then moving on.

If the actual end device is not part of the SR domain, I assume that
encapsulation would have been used, so I think it is reasoanble to
assume that in the PSP case the end device is SR capable.

Do you have any comments on what appears to be the significant increase
in complexity on the device performing PSP?=C2=A0 The question I am trying = to
get at is about the tradeoff, which needs one to evaluate both sides.

Yours,
Joel

On 12/10/2019 11:13 PM, Xiejingrong (Jingrong) wrote:
> I think it's a good idea.
> Nothing new, but benefits that people have already said seems notable = to me.
>
> (1) reduce the load of final destination. This benefit can be notable = for the following sub reasons.
> (1.1) final destination tends to have heavy load. It need to handle al= l the EHs and do the delivery/demultiplex the packet to the right overlay s= ervice.
> (1.2) example 1, the final destination may need to handle the DOH afte= r the RH.
> (1.3) example 2, the final destination may need to do the assembly of = fragmented packets.
> (1.4) example 3, the final destination may need to do AH/ESP after the= Fragmentation Header.
> (1.5) example 4, the final destination may need to deliver the packet = to the right overlay service.
>
> (2) support the incremental deployment when final destination(s) do no= t process/recognize SRH. This benefit can be notable for the following sub = reasons.
> (2.1) A core router may (fan-out) connected with a big number of low-e= nd routers that do not support SRH but support tunnel-end/service-demultipl= ex function of SRv6.
>
> Thanks
> Jingrong
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: spring [mailto:= spring-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Joel M. Halpern
> Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2019 10:55 AM
> To: spring@ietf.org
> Subject: [spring] Is srv6 PSP a good idea
>
> For purposes of this thread, even if you think PSP violates RFC 8200, = let us assume that it is legal.
>
> As I understand it, the PSP situation is:
> o the packet arrives at the place (let's not argue about whether S= IDs are locators) identified by the SID in the destination address field o = that SID is the next to last SID in the SID list o that sid is marked as / = known to be PSP o at the intended place in the processing pseudocode, the l= ast (first) entry in the SRH is copied into the destination IPv6 address fi= eld of the packet
> -> The SRH being used is then removed from the packet.
>
> In order to evaluate whether this is a good idea, we have to have some= idea of the benefit.=C2=A0 It may be that I am missing some of the benefit= , and I would appreciate clarification.
> As far as I can tell, the benefit of this removal is that in exchange = for this node doing the work of removing the SRH, the final node in the SRH= does not have to process the SRH at all, as it has been removed.
>
> I have trouble seeing how that work tradeoff can be beneficial.
> Removing bytes from the middle of a packet is a complex operation.
> Doing so in Silicon (we expect this to be done in the fast path of sig= nificant forwarders as I understand it) requires very special provision.=C2= =A0 Even in software, removing bytes from the middle of a packet requires s= omewhere between some and a lot of extra work.=C2=A0 It is distinctly NOT f= ree.
>
> In contrast, we have assumed that the work of processing SRH itself is= tractable, since otherwise all of SRv6 would be problematic.=C2=A0 So why = is this necessary.
>
> Yours,
> Joel
>
> PS: Note that both the MPLS case and the encapsulation case are very d= ifferent in that the material being removed is at the front of the IP packe= t.=C2=A0 Pop or prepend are MUCH easier than middle-removal (or middle-inse= rtion).
>
> _______________________________________________
> spring mailing list
> spring@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
>

_______________________________________________
spring mailing list
spring@ietf.org
h= ttps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring

_______________________________________________
spring mailing list
spring@ietf.org
h= ttps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
--000000000000d061bd0599b1fc20-- From nobody Sat Dec 14 18:08:50 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2AA79120099 for ; Sat, 14 Dec 2019 18:08:49 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3qiI6ekLme7g for ; Sat, 14 Dec 2019 18:08:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from cnshjsmin05.nokia-sbell.com (cnshjsmin05.app.nokia-sbell.com [116.246.26.45]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 09FFD12004C for ; Sat, 14 Dec 2019 18:08:41 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: ac18929d-537ff70000002afa-b3-5df595a7332e Received: from CNSHPPEXCH1602.nsn-intra.net (Unknown_Domain [135.251.51.102]) (using TLS with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by cnshjsmin05.nokia-sbell.com (Symantec Messaging Gateway) with SMTP id BA.E1.11002.7A595FD5; Sun, 15 Dec 2019 10:08:39 +0800 (HKT) Received: from CNSHPPEXCH1605.nsn-intra.net (135.251.51.105) by CNSHPPEXCH1602.nsn-intra.net (135.251.51.102) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256) id 15.1.1713.5; Sun, 15 Dec 2019 10:08:38 +0800 Received: from CNSHPPEXCH1605.nsn-intra.net ([135.251.51.105]) by CNSHPPEXCH1605.nsn-intra.net ([135.251.51.105]) with mapi id 15.01.1713.007; Sun, 15 Dec 2019 10:08:38 +0800 From: "Wang, Weibin (NSB - CN/Shanghai)" To: "Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)" CC: "spring@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: USD/USP question in draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-06.txt Thread-Index: AdWy4hb6WRZE2f3ZSWKmDwtbtf5+NA== Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2019 02:08:38 +0000 Message-ID: <8532651c71c94715abfa96990aec3854@nokia-sbell.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [135.251.51.115] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_8532651c71c94715abfa96990aec3854nokiasbellcom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFupjkeLIzCtJLcpLzFFi42Jp/22cprt86tdYgyszRS1+Hd/FYnH8wm9G ByaPKb83snosWfKTKYApissmJTUnsyy1SN8ugSvj49brzAWzyyu23G1iaWBcltHFyMkhIWAi cWBvD3MXIxeHkMAhJolbexuZIJy/jBILj71hh3A2MUrc/vKWFaSFTcBNYtK2XWwgtoiAqcTU DVfA4swC6hLL9l9gAbGFBfwkLt3ZzQxREypx7M1MdghbT+LExtdANgcHi4CqxNwL9iBhXgE7 iVPXJzCC2IwCYhLfT61hghgpLnHryXwmiEsFJJbsOc8MYYtKvHz8jxVkjISAkkTfBqjyVInZ W1ayQ4wUlDg58wnLBEbhWUgmzUJSNgtJGURcR2LB7k9sELa2xLKFr5lh7DMHHjMhiy9gZF/F KJ2cV5yRVZybmWdgqpeXn52ZqFuclJqTo5ecn7uJERhLayQmzd3B2NkZf4hRgINRiYc3Q/xr rBBrYllxZe4hRgkOZiUR3lTtz7FCvCmJlVWpRfnxRaU5qcWHGKU5WJTEeVsmL4wVEkhPLEnN Tk0tSC2CyTJxcEo1MHpwl73/06fHuZjfb6nZ0QfCH/tvuolaL/957qsS97PE2xu2Ba3hP/E/ PnJ3p/iuDSI2s+I/lz8K3LLk6vp1GidfXDbNOeqrGugXcSqI6UrJ9yUejL1G0Xv6JY6Jsl1Q l51lpLlCrSQkIv1ze8y29z4aKh7hO5gqZWW3e/6TvvDQ48z159M1vyuxFGckGmoxFxUnAgCr zojBoQIAAA== Archived-At: Subject: [spring] USD/USP question in draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-06.txt X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2019 02:08:49 -0000 --_000_8532651c71c94715abfa96990aec3854nokiasbellcom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Pablo: After the 2 context assumption in previous version of this draft, "we assu= me that there is no other extension header than the SRH." and "We assume that the SRH may be present multiple times inside each packet", are remo= ved in this last draft, I feel a bit confusion on USD SID, as well as combi= nation of USD & USP. First, within the content of this last draft, the word "Further on" marked = red in the following pseudocode in section "4.16.3" is hard to understand i= f the packet being processed has other EH embed between SRH and Upper-layer= header, such as AH or other EH, then the processing control of this packet= will be passed to normal IPv6 module from current SRH processing module in= SR-Node, so my question is : Can its control after completing AH processin= g (for example) be back to SRH module (or call it pseudocode module) to pr= oceed the next header like "upper-lay header type =3D=3D41 or 4". Or, if not, Did you created a new EH processing protocol stack instance in = parallel to normal IPv6 module within the scope of SRH processing in SR-nod= e. 4.16.3. USD: Ultimate Segment Decapsulation S02. If (Segments Left =3D=3D 0) { S03. Skip the SRH processing and proceed to the next header S04. } Further on, the Upper-layer header processing of the End, End.X and End.T behaviors are modified as follows: End: S01. If (Upper-layer Header type =3D=3D 41 || 4) { S02. Remove the outer IPv6 Header with all its extension headers S03. Submit the packet to the egress IP FIB lookup and transmission to the new destination S04. } Else { S05. Send an ICMP Parameter Problem message to the Source Address Code 4 (SR Upper-layer Header Error), Pointer set to the offset of the upper-layer header. Interrupt packet processing and discard the packet. S06. } >From my understanding, the all processing action about specific SID must be= completed successively. That is to say, upon USD, the upper-layer header (= type 41 or 4) must be followed the SRH header being processed currently, or= second SRH following the same rule (of course, the draft not considering 2= or more successive SRHs). Second, the mixed SIDs function with combination of USD and USP (even PSP&U= SD&USP), I think, it is easy to understand when the two assumption above ex= ist, but now I think it isn't clear if you only provide the following sente= nce in this draft, i.e. "if ... else..." statement: "An implementation that supports the USD flavor in conjunction with the USP flavor MAY optimize the packet processing by first looking whether the conditions for the USD flavor are met, in which case it can proceed with USD processing else do USP processing." This confusion is also described in my another mail. Of course, if the firs= t question is addressed then this confusion does not exist. By the way, is it really no different in text description before and after = the two context assumption above removed? Cheers ! WANG Weibin --_000_8532651c71c94715abfa96990aec3854nokiasbellcom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Pablo:

 

After the 2 context a= ssumption in previous version of this draft,  “we assume that there is no other extension header than the SRH.”  and  “We = assume

   that the SRH may be present multiple times inside each pac= ket”, are removed in this last draft, I feel a bit confusion on USD SID, as well as combination of USD & USP.<= /p>

 

First, within the content of this last draft, the wo= rd “Further on” marked red in the following pseudocode in secti= on “4.16.3” is hard to understand if the packet being processed= has other EH embed between SRH and Upper-layer header, such as AH or other EH, then the processing control of this packet will be pass= ed to normal IPv6 module from current SRH processing module in SR-Node, so = my question is : Can its control after completing AH processing (for exampl= e)  be back to SRH module (or call it pseudocode module) to proceed the next header like “upper-lay hea= der type =3D=3D41 or 4”.

Or, if not, Did you created a new EH processing prot= ocol stack instance in parallel to normal IPv6 module within the scope of S= RH processing in SR-node.

 

4.16.3.  USD: Ultimate= Segment Decapsulation

 

S02.   If (Segments Left =3D=3D 0) {

   S03.      Skip the SRH processing= and proceed to the next header

   S04. &nbs= p; }

 

the Upper-layer header processing of the En= d, End.X and

   End.T behaviors are modified as follows:=

 

   End:

   S01. If (Upper-layer Header type =3D=3D 41 || 4) {

   S02.    Remove the outer IPv6 Header with a= ll its extension headers

   S03.    Submit the packet to the egress IP = FIB lookup and

            = ;  transmission to the new destination

   S04. } Else {

   S05.    Send an ICMP Parameter Problem mess= age to the Source Address

            = ;  Code 4 (SR Upper-layer Header Error),

            = ;  Pointer set to the offset of the upper-layer header.

            = ;  Interrupt packet processing and discard the packet.

 

   S06. }<= o:p>

 

From my understanding, the all processing action abo= ut specific SID must be completed successively. That is to say, upon USD, t= he upper-layer header (type 41 or 4) must be followed the SRH header being = processed currently, or second SRH following the same rule (of course, the draft not considering 2 or more su= ccessive SRHs).

 

Second, the mixed SIDs function with combination of = USD and USP (even PSP&USD&USP), I think, it is easy to understand w= hen the two assumption above exist, but now I think it isn’t clear if= you only provide the following sentence in this draft, i.e.  “if … else…” statement:

“An implementation that supports the USD flavor in conjunction wi= th

   the USP flavor MAY optimize the packet processing by first= looking

   whether the conditions for the USD flavor are met, in whic= h case it

   can proceed wi= th USD processing else do USP processing.”

This confusion is also described in my another mail.= Of course, if the first question is addressed then this confusion does not= exist.

 

By the way, is it really no different in text descri= ption before and after the two context assumption above removed?=

 

 

Cheers !

 

WANG Weibin

--_000_8532651c71c94715abfa96990aec3854nokiasbellcom_-- From nobody Sat Dec 14 19:08:48 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50675120099 for ; Sat, 14 Dec 2019 19:08:47 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.396 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.396 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, FROM_LOCAL_NOVOWEL=0.5, HK_RANDOM_ENVFROM=0.001, HK_RANDOM_FROM=1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTTPS_HTTP_MISMATCH=0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XCK7IfYuVIMJ for ; Sat, 14 Dec 2019 19:08:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-oi1-x232.google.com (mail-oi1-x232.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::232]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3BA2312004C for ; Sat, 14 Dec 2019 19:08:45 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-oi1-x232.google.com with SMTP id d62so2689054oia.11 for ; Sat, 14 Dec 2019 19:08:45 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=WFeyvNDAiYPIdQ/h625VuMHWPKbfn6vRZWT6SIuVczQ=; b=e8G/cdkCKn/pAGuWkZdsZ2Pv94mcj5lxLI3q6ut9bfQlAmKnYtws5wUrpX7JbG7QG0 84NP2DJ3mlEYTvD6Sy97j0QCWwA0/veZA1nTHgJrPlEgsKJjRf5EGTK0+dzDpBe2LtQ6 +BKbmeOP9sAuBh/e7afKSYDPiPGGYy6VreFXMBYUbgDiDS9S2FX3Pvu19nNq7TVMVrWD k7DEbGgTXfS81A5wjd2O0tq04GNxwnFnkRKTOaKeoMA8KR8Kdf+W/aC86mUxfSdNON+C xl2Gj3M44qYC2ddeoo7STV6l5JlMZ9vVtV+4JNzDucAVrciD3W/1ErwNhjzCMI2iY71e iNuQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=WFeyvNDAiYPIdQ/h625VuMHWPKbfn6vRZWT6SIuVczQ=; b=YD7oc9wkae9URW6SHgCcIpi8+JsVurcYlrjSeoRtGzH6zbpCkWX451c1CEm/KxA5Nx bCufsLaz/bie7CD3N7ZkxPUjE7gr+sDrIgyn8gf4blxx4oxnhPa2T27rlojeqxHNuZUK 6n59xMcDB9vGaX7VChh7B5EDQdqijcLSECL+eeAxHBLtC0Nfdpaaof4OTNxm1kgZqWL7 /22lSd/Si3hA18QUm7TSSZxctgjCvYPFJ4LjC/k2ZS/aDwtC0dXME2upJv6OMGyMe8jW OFK5cDh0lZMrKVYDa8U8+55vs2Lxz7FHXo1ieDfdWgpqDizoYC+Kkl/HvBMm1WcXYF3n mNyg== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXvrAAtFhj39mq05qQodgKRTEwxKdewo4zNO4h0AAYYCi3bJ9f2 jjVEUiKWiAL3Rk1YaOOIOOp2ft24pn6N/95jarQ= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxnbf1RkSHp46lUZatrP4S2wpqIPACCQTJOkCFabQZXNAGrW2V9pSyrt4NFKiy6gdtx5EfP65XmtwOJeZfPr24= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6808:f:: with SMTP id u15mr8489990oic.164.1576379324452; Sat, 14 Dec 2019 19:08:44 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <5c2a4b36-0c59-709e-23eb-00f4aa1ce52f@joelhalpern.com> <9B89F4C2-5594-4D31-8893-21F3F4A0DF6C@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: From: Mark Smith Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2019 14:08:32 +1100 Message-ID: To: Ron Bonica Cc: "Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)" , "Joel M. Halpern" , "spring@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000aa53280599b5697f" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Is srv6 PSP a good idea X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2019 03:08:47 -0000 --000000000000aa53280599b5697f Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, 13 Dec 2019, 07:50 Ron Bonica, wrote: > Pablo, > > I am not convinced the benefit derived by the ultimate segment justifies > the price paid by the penultimate segment. Specifically, > > - the ultimate segment benefits because it doesn't have to skip over the > SRH with SL =3D=3D 0 > - in order for the ultimate segment to derive this benefit, the > penultimate segment needs to remove bytes from the middle of the packet a= nd > update two fields in the IPv6 header > > As Joel said, we typically don't add options (i.e., complexity) to a > specification unless there is substantial benefit. > It's also contrary to the SPRING charter: "SPRING WG should avoid modification to existing data planes that would make them incompatible with existing deployments. Where possible, existing control and management plane protocols must be used within existing architectures to implement the SPRING function." The only time significant changes to IPv6 operation should be proposed are if what is being tried to be done is impossible using existing mechanisms, or there is a very significant benefit that far outweighs the cost and consequences of changing a protocol that is decades old and already has millions of deployments. When significant changes to a protocol are needed or would provide significant advantages, that's a sign that either (a) it's the wrong protocol to try to use or (b) it's time for a new version of the protocol. The 'man' in 6man stands for 'maintenance'. IPv6 is way past the development stage (that was 1995 and earlier). It seems SPRING is commonly taking a "new protocol development" approach regarding IPv6, rather than "use an existing protocol" approach. This "new protocol development" approach is costing a lot of time and effort due to long debates that really shouldn't be needed if the SPRING charter was being followed, and IPv6 was just being used rather than attempted to be being redeveloped. Regards, Mark. > Ron > > > > > Juniper Business Use Only > > -----Original Message----- > From: spring On Behalf Of Pablo Camarillo > (pcamaril) > Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2019 3:12 PM > To: Joel M. Halpern ; spring@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [spring] Is srv6 PSP a good idea > > Joel, > > 1.- The use-case for PSP has already been provided at the mailer. There > are scenarios where it provides benefits to operators. > > 2.- The PSP behavior is optional. It is up to the operator in his > deployment to decide whether to enable it or not at one particular router= . > Similarly, a vendor may decide not to implement it. The PSP behavior has > been implemented by several vendors and deployed (see the srv6 deployment > draft). > > 3.- A network may have PSP enabled at some nodes and not at others. > Everything is still interoperable and works fine. > > 4.- PSP is not a complex operation in hardware (doable at linerate on > existing merchant silicon). > Example: It has been implemented and deployed on Broadcom J/J+. If I > recall correctly Broadcom Jericho+ started shipping in March 2016! PSP is > supported on this platform at linerate with no performance degradation > (neither PPPS nor BW). > Given that this is doable in a platform from more than 3 years ago, I fai= l > to see how you need "very special provision" to do this. > > Is it really something that horrible to provide freedom of choice to the > operators deploying? > > In summary, it can be implemented without any burden in hardware and > deployment experience prove this is beneficial to operators. > > Thanks, > Pablo. > > =EF=BB=BF-----Original Message----- > From: spring on behalf of "Joel M. Halpern" < > jmh@joelhalpern.com> > Date: Wednesday, 11 December 2019 at 03:55 > To: "spring@ietf.org" > Subject: [spring] Is srv6 PSP a good idea > > For purposes of this thread, even if you think PSP violates RFC 8200, > let us assume that it is legal. > > As I understand it, the PSP situation is: > o the packet arrives at the place (let's not argue about whether SIDs > are locators) identified by the SID in the destination address field > o that SID is the next to last SID in the SID list > o that sid is marked as / known to be PSP > o at the intended place in the processing pseudocode, the last (first= ) > entry in the SRH is copied into the destination IPv6 address field of > the packet > -> The SRH being used is then removed from the packet. > > In order to evaluate whether this is a good idea, we have to have som= e > idea of the benefit. It may be that I am missing some of the benefit= , > and I would appreciate clarification. > As far as I can tell, the benefit of this removal is that in exchange > for this node doing the work of removing the SRH, the final node in > the > SRH does not have to process the SRH at all, as it has been removed. > > I have trouble seeing how that work tradeoff can be beneficial. > Removing bytes from the middle of a packet is a complex operation. > Doing so in Silicon (we expect this to be done in the fast path of > significant forwarders as I understand it) requires very special > provision. Even in software, removing bytes from the middle of a > packet > requires somewhere between some and a lot of extra work. It is > distinctly NOT free. > > In contrast, we have assumed that the work of processing SRH itself i= s > tractable, since otherwise all of SRv6 would be problematic. So why > is > this necessary. > > Yours, > Joel > > PS: Note that both the MPLS case and the encapsulation case are very > different in that the material being removed is at the front of the I= P > packet. Pop or prepend are MUCH easier than middle-removal (or > middle-insertion). > > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring_= _;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!Uvd5DRUIJlsmob5a7r4JRgMMbZcE60JOPIW3K2MubKpIuKXA1r78vsFpWAH= a8hW2$ > > > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring_= _;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!Uvd5DRUIJlsmob5a7r4JRgMMbZcE60JOPIW3K2MubKpIuKXA1r78vsFpWAH= a8hW2$ > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > --000000000000aa53280599b5697f Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Fri, 13 Dec 2019, 07:50 Ron Bonica, <rbonica=3D<= a href=3D"mailto:40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nor= eferrer">40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
Pablo,

I am not convinced the benefit derived by the ultimate segment justifies th= e price paid by the penultimate segment. Specifically,

- the ultimate segment benefits because it doesn't have to skip over th= e SRH with SL =3D=3D 0
- in order for the ultimate segment to derive this benefit, the penultimate= segment needs to remove bytes from the middle of the packet and update two= fields in the IPv6 header

As Joel said, we typically don't add options (i.e., complexity) to a sp= ecification unless there is substantial benefit.


It's also contrary to the SPRING charter:

<= /div>
"SPRING WG should avoid modification to e= xisting data planes that would
make them incompatible with = existing deployments. Where possible,
existing control and = management plane protocols must be used within
existing arc= hitectures to implement the SPRING function."

The only time significant ch= anges to IPv6 operation should be proposed are if what is being tried to be= done is impossible using existing mechanisms, or there is a very significa= nt benefit that far outweighs the cost and consequences of changing a proto= col that is decades old and already has millions of deployments.

When significant changes to a prot= ocol are needed or would provide significant advantages, that's a sign = that either (a) it's the wrong protocol to try to use or (b) it's t= ime for a new version of the protocol.

The 'man' in 6man stands for 'maintenance'. = IPv6 is way past the development stage (that was 1995 and earlier).=C2=A0

It seems SPRING is common= ly taking a "new protocol development" approach regarding IPv6, r= ather than "use an existing protocol" approach. This "new pr= otocol development" approach is costing a lot of time and effort due t= o long debates that really shouldn't be needed if the SPRING charter wa= s being followed, and IPv6 was just being used rather than attempted to be = being redeveloped.

Regar= ds,
Mark.



=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Ron




Juniper Business Use Only

-----Original Message-----
From: spring <spring-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf = Of Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)
Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2019 3:12 PM
To: Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com>; sp= ring@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [spring] Is srv6 PSP a good idea

Joel,

1.- The use-case for PSP has already been provided at the mailer. There are= scenarios where it provides benefits to operators.

2.- The PSP behavior is optional. It is up to the operator in his deploymen= t to decide whether to enable it or not at one particular router.
Similarly, a vendor may decide not to implement it. The PSP behavior has be= en implemented by several vendors and deployed (see the srv6 deployment dra= ft).

3.- A network may have PSP enabled at some nodes and not at others.=C2=A0 E= verything is still interoperable and works fine.=C2=A0

4.- PSP is not a complex operation in hardware (doable at linerate on exist= ing merchant silicon).
Example: It has been implemented and deployed on Broadcom J/J+. If I recall= correctly Broadcom Jericho+ started shipping in March 2016! PSP is support= ed on this platform at linerate with no performance degradation (neither PP= PS nor BW).
Given that this is doable in a platform from more than 3 years ago, I fail = to see how you need "very special provision" to do this.

Is it really something that horrible to provide freedom of choice to the op= erators deploying?

In summary, it can be implemented without any burden in hardware and deploy= ment experience prove this is beneficial to operators.

Thanks,
Pablo.

=EF=BB=BF-----Original Message-----
From: spring <spring-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf = of "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com><= br> Date: Wednesday, 11 December 2019 at 03:55
To: "spring@ietf.org" <spring@ietf.org= >
Subject: [spring] Is srv6 PSP a good idea

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 For purposes of this thread, even if you think PSP violates R= FC 8200,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 let us assume that it is legal.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 As I understand it, the PSP situation is:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 o the packet arrives at the place (let's not argue about = whether SIDs
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 are locators) identified by the SID in the destination addres= s field
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 o that SID is the next to last SID in the SID list
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 o that sid is marked as / known to be PSP
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 o at the intended place in the processing pseudocode, the las= t (first)
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 entry in the SRH is copied into the destination IPv6 address = field of
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 the packet
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 -> The SRH being used is then removed from the packet.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 In order to evaluate whether this is a good idea, we have to = have some
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 idea of the benefit.=C2=A0 It may be that I am missing some o= f the benefit,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 and I would appreciate clarification.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 As far as I can tell, the benefit of this removal is that in = exchange
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 for this node doing the work of removing the SRH, the final n= ode in the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 SRH does not have to process the SRH at all, as it has been r= emoved.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 I have trouble seeing how that work tradeoff can be beneficia= l.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Removing bytes from the middle of a packet is a complex opera= tion.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Doing so in Silicon (we expect this to be done in the fast pa= th of
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 significant forwarders as I understand it) requires very spec= ial
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 provision.=C2=A0 Even in software, removing bytes from the mi= ddle of a packet
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 requires somewhere between some and a lot of extra work.=C2= =A0 It is
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 distinctly NOT free.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 In contrast, we have assumed that the work of processing SRH = itself is
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 tractable, since otherwise all of SRv6 would be problematic.= =C2=A0 So why is
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 this necessary.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Yours,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Joel

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 PS: Note that both the MPLS case and the encapsulation case a= re very
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 different in that the material being removed is at the front = of the IP
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 packet.=C2=A0 Pop or prepend are MUCH easier than middle-remo= val (or
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 middle-insertion).

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 _______________________________________________
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 spring mailing list
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 spring@ietf.org
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/mailman/lis= tinfo/spring__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!Uvd5DRUIJlsmob5a7r4JRgMMbZcE60JOPIW3K2MubKpIuK= XA1r78vsFpWAHa8hW2$


_______________________________________________
spring mailing list
spring@ietf.org
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring__= ;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!Uvd5DRUIJlsmob5a7r4JRgMMbZcE60JOPIW3K2MubKpIuKXA1r78vsFpWAHa= 8hW2$
_______________________________________________
spring mailing list
spring@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listi= nfo/spring
--000000000000aa53280599b5697f-- From nobody Sat Dec 14 22:36:52 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6AC5F120071 for ; Sat, 14 Dec 2019 22:36:48 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.997 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.997 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id U_t6F7jKB-AO for ; Sat, 14 Dec 2019 22:36:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-io1-xd2a.google.com (mail-io1-xd2a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d2a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7FD41120005 for ; Sat, 14 Dec 2019 22:36:44 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-io1-xd2a.google.com with SMTP id v18so2740137iol.2 for ; Sat, 14 Dec 2019 22:36:44 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=PKZ5Y7TmTwbOXF7K2nDESkfugy0YMXvRlQ+msA9GYBs=; b=GiD6GBPoSR5JHdNUtVQt2gcJJZZkpLhD3aVy0ArwtOo6yYO+NqwRHRKGYwnZsRINnD 53zKlF6YQ8ByOiU8iFihmA0VZKN/GMcZM0KJeLPx0o1JLNLLFflEBD0ZgKzXKOWzHknn wMASifELpoVkHjAP3nO+UPS0LMXVZX6PRbpF60s0r0+SxdTpL8Q9US6HPeQ4Z4nQG2/l 6IRmWPHn8L9LrAm/uxRoTWePUHj0wNIw0+R5dicvlvhW3z2kHRU088hV73nnlZ8Jmzns Ne6t/nt7jO9iDPtVWqLbFCoO/Q1kEQaAjwBREELkUIs0eCxhgTOwBrmG0hKgi2uCKVY5 FT/A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=PKZ5Y7TmTwbOXF7K2nDESkfugy0YMXvRlQ+msA9GYBs=; b=BHgMn8kc8STPR6Od1ADH/QhcbpiaPWQHmN3VqVhW09XtZ2gxZCGzBJg0JvMb+PJRrj titGaBHhgEqeVfpLwo8UqCgM13ggrPbh2r8R75BHir7EEN+L00geO3V3Uld7y4P5nawh zksuGdYiY+K5kw1jhuaaALv3R7wD5j6BbwBJGa8RElLOemTN58Gg04GbjZRxBg8Vz7Qg oRdPoqQvrar8P/6Dxhm7lE0BRlXn3RNRy9kNQMsXdnJ48fm1+KW7kG8MznXUlO3YSnjc spt8wropfpkfkyy0c9mDCYKD6zNx3l4ruWbWzBslH5bpXSNGuTbh4kpdTu8kbbr8t73S chCg== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVqDQy6r/LH3PpSUmRi2UzRLWnJHjuFWZjEX/7iDAJZDJ1GRMsR BHdlbkgSvVfq0Hknw5evraxHdeD6oBvkpacxSX8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqw5k96mjIWgTOezk8Qc/fHzTN+CphyyF+AqSuQlvbCAMxwgE7Il3iXTsB/7UeL4voWlXIcW/2Ahb97Iaj1lse0= X-Received: by 2002:a5d:9bd0:: with SMTP id d16mr5861086ion.78.1576391803459; Sat, 14 Dec 2019 22:36:43 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <5c2a4b36-0c59-709e-23eb-00f4aa1ce52f@joelhalpern.com> <9B89F4C2-5594-4D31-8893-21F3F4A0DF6C@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: From: Gyan Mishra Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2019 01:35:52 -0500 Message-ID: To: Mark Smith Cc: "Joel M. Halpern" , "Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)" , Ron Bonica , "spring@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000078df2f0599b85177" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Is srv6 PSP a good idea X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2019 06:36:49 -0000 --00000000000078df2f0599b85177 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable All The concept of PHP =E2=80=9CPenultimate Hop POP=E2=80=9D and UHP =E2=80=9CU= ltimate Hop POP=E2=80=9D have historical meaning as well as real consequences as far as a packet walk through an mpls network. >From a historical perspective which is really the correct way to look at PHP in the MPLS world was designed by the developers of MPLS 25+ years ago for the following reason. Back then, asic chipsets used by the MPLS forwarding plane did not have the horsepower to pop the topmost ldp label along with all services bottom of stack labels. For that reason alone the MPLS developers back then came up with the PHP concept. In essence what that did was allow the ldp topmost label to be popped one hop prior to the egress LSR PE node on the egress P node. What that did was offload the entire burden of popping the entire label stack done on the PE ultimate hop router to now be offset by one less label to pop. Back then that was a big deal and important for processing label switched packets at high rates. PSP became the default standard across all vendors and platforms =E2=80=9Ci= mplicit null label reserved value 3=E2=80=9D There was a double edged sword that came about from the PSP process. As mpls became mainstream so did customer SLA and so end to end QOS became the forefront importance to all service providers. The major problem in the MPLS world that came about with PSP is that when you pop that label at the egress PE 1 hop before the ultimate hop. What that did is the PE-P link the packet is forwarded without the ldp topmost label intact preserved which contained the EXP bits for end to end QOS scheduling. A workaround fix to this issue was to institute a new feature called =E2=80=9Cexplicit null reserved label value 0=E2=80=9D. This was implement= ed using a QOS policy called =E2=80=9Cpipe mode=E2=80=9D that allowed the topmost label to= now be preserved and =E2=80=9Cultimate=E2=80=9D hopped which we today call UHP =E2= =80=9CUltimate Hop POP=E2=80=9D. Another industry development that came about to get around the complexity of pipe mode QOS policy to UHP was a enlightening concept but unfortunately did not work for all use cases. So the new feature that came about was the ability to schedule outbound on each node in the operator MPLS core on both on the topmost label EXP bits of the topmost was present as well as on the preserved inner header dscp this dual PHB scheduling capability based on which outer header existed or didn=E2=80=99t exist. This worked for enterprises where you have trust relationship with your customer or are a customer of yourself. In the service provide area UHP ultimate hopping to preserve the ldp topmost label became the general rule of thumb golden standard to meet customer SLAs of end to end QOS. Coming back full circle to SRV6. The concept of PSP was added to SRv6 I believe to provide parity for operators learning curve as well as similarities as SRV6 would be the replacement to mpls. Based on what I have stated above providing history of PHP and how it came about ; and now adding this truly legacy function to a NG protocol such as SRv6 to me does not make sense. I don=E2=80=99t see the necessity to add just for the sake of adding or pro= viding parity to a soon to be legacy protocol. I would like to see some technical justification as to why PSP is necessary with our modern day routers to this in the PR spec. Gyan On Sat, Dec 14, 2019 at 10:08 PM Mark Smith wrote: > > > On Fri, 13 Dec 2019, 07:50 Ron Bonica, 40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote: > >> Pablo, >> >> I am not convinced the benefit derived by the ultimate segment justifies >> the price paid by the penultimate segment. Specifically, >> >> - the ultimate segment benefits because it doesn't have to skip over the >> SRH with SL =3D=3D 0 >> - in order for the ultimate segment to derive this benefit, the >> penultimate segment needs to remove bytes from the middle of the packet = and >> update two fields in the IPv6 header >> >> As Joel said, we typically don't add options (i.e., complexity) to a >> specification unless there is substantial benefit. >> > > > It's also contrary to the SPRING charter: > > "SPRING WG should avoid modification to existing data planes that would > make them incompatible with existing deployments. Where possible, > existing control and management plane protocols must be used within > existing architectures to implement the SPRING function." > > The only time significant changes to IPv6 operation should be proposed ar= e > if what is being tried to be done is impossible using existing mechanisms= , > or there is a very significant benefit that far outweighs the cost and > consequences of changing a protocol that is decades old and already has > millions of deployments. > > When significant changes to a protocol are needed or would provide > significant advantages, that's a sign that either (a) it's the wrong > protocol to try to use or (b) it's time for a new version of the protocol= . > > The 'man' in 6man stands for 'maintenance'. IPv6 is way past the > development stage (that was 1995 and earlier). > > It seems SPRING is commonly taking a "new protocol development" approach > regarding IPv6, rather than "use an existing protocol" approach. This "ne= w > protocol development" approach is costing a lot of time and effort due to > long debates that really shouldn't be needed if the SPRING charter was > being followed, and IPv6 was just being used rather than attempted to be > being redeveloped. > > Regards, > Mark. > > > >> Ron >> >> >> >> >> Juniper Business Use Only >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: spring On Behalf Of Pablo Camarillo >> (pcamaril) >> Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2019 3:12 PM >> To: Joel M. Halpern ; spring@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [spring] Is srv6 PSP a good idea >> >> Joel, >> >> 1.- The use-case for PSP has already been provided at the mailer. There >> are scenarios where it provides benefits to operators. >> >> 2.- The PSP behavior is optional. It is up to the operator in his >> deployment to decide whether to enable it or not at one particular route= r. >> Similarly, a vendor may decide not to implement it. The PSP behavior has >> been implemented by several vendors and deployed (see the srv6 deploymen= t >> draft). >> >> 3.- A network may have PSP enabled at some nodes and not at others. >> Everything is still interoperable and works fine. >> >> 4.- PSP is not a complex operation in hardware (doable at linerate on >> existing merchant silicon). >> Example: It has been implemented and deployed on Broadcom J/J+. If I >> recall correctly Broadcom Jericho+ started shipping in March 2016! PSP i= s >> supported on this platform at linerate with no performance degradation >> (neither PPPS nor BW). >> Given that this is doable in a platform from more than 3 years ago, I >> fail to see how you need "very special provision" to do this. >> >> Is it really something that horrible to provide freedom of choice to the >> operators deploying? >> >> In summary, it can be implemented without any burden in hardware and >> deployment experience prove this is beneficial to operators. >> >> Thanks, >> Pablo. >> >> =EF=BB=BF-----Original Message----- >> From: spring on behalf of "Joel M. Halpern" < >> jmh@joelhalpern.com> >> Date: Wednesday, 11 December 2019 at 03:55 >> To: "spring@ietf.org" >> Subject: [spring] Is srv6 PSP a good idea >> >> For purposes of this thread, even if you think PSP violates RFC 8200= , >> let us assume that it is legal. >> >> As I understand it, the PSP situation is: >> o the packet arrives at the place (let's not argue about whether SID= s >> are locators) identified by the SID in the destination address field >> o that SID is the next to last SID in the SID list >> o that sid is marked as / known to be PSP >> o at the intended place in the processing pseudocode, the last >> (first) >> entry in the SRH is copied into the destination IPv6 address field o= f >> the packet >> -> The SRH being used is then removed from the packet. >> >> In order to evaluate whether this is a good idea, we have to have >> some >> idea of the benefit. It may be that I am missing some of the >> benefit, >> and I would appreciate clarification. >> As far as I can tell, the benefit of this removal is that in exchang= e >> for this node doing the work of removing the SRH, the final node in >> the >> SRH does not have to process the SRH at all, as it has been removed. >> >> I have trouble seeing how that work tradeoff can be beneficial. >> Removing bytes from the middle of a packet is a complex operation. >> Doing so in Silicon (we expect this to be done in the fast path of >> significant forwarders as I understand it) requires very special >> provision. Even in software, removing bytes from the middle of a >> packet >> requires somewhere between some and a lot of extra work. It is >> distinctly NOT free. >> >> In contrast, we have assumed that the work of processing SRH itself >> is >> tractable, since otherwise all of SRv6 would be problematic. So why >> is >> this necessary. >> >> Yours, >> Joel >> >> PS: Note that both the MPLS case and the encapsulation case are very >> different in that the material being removed is at the front of the >> IP >> packet. Pop or prepend are MUCH easier than middle-removal (or >> middle-insertion). >> >> _______________________________________________ >> spring mailing list >> spring@ietf.org >> >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring= __;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!Uvd5DRUIJlsmob5a7r4JRgMMbZcE60JOPIW3K2MubKpIuKXA1r78vsFpWA= Ha8hW2$ >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> spring mailing list >> spring@ietf.org >> >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring= __;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!Uvd5DRUIJlsmob5a7r4JRgMMbZcE60JOPIW3K2MubKpIuKXA1r78vsFpWA= Ha8hW2$ >> _______________________________________________ >> spring mailing list >> spring@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring >> > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > --=20 Gyan S. Mishra IT Network Engineering & Technology Verizon Communications Inc. (VZ) 13101 Columbia Pike FDC1 3rd Floor Silver Spring, MD 20904 United States Phone: 301 502-1347 Email: gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies-consultant --00000000000078df2f0599b85177 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
All

The concept of PHP =E2=80=9CPenultimate Hop POP=E2=80=9D and UHP = =E2=80=9CUltimate Hop POP=E2=80=9D have historical meaning as well as real = consequences as far as a packet walk through an mpls network.

From a historical perspective which i= s really the correct way to look at PHP in the MPLS world was designed by t= he developers of MPLS 25+ years ago for the following reason.=C2=A0 Back th= en, =C2=A0asic chipsets used by the MPLS forwarding plane did not have the = horsepower to pop the topmost ldp label along with all services bottom of s= tack labels.

For that re= ason alone the MPLS developers back then came up with the PHP concept.

In essence what that did was= allow the ldp topmost label to be popped one hop prior to the egress LSR P= E node on the egress P node.

What that did was offload the entire burden of popping the entire labe= l stack done on the PE ultimate hop router to now be offset by one less lab= el to pop.=C2=A0 Back then that was a big deal and important for processing= label switched packets at high rates.

PSP became the default standard across all vendors and platf= orms =E2=80=9Cimplicit null label reserved value 3=E2=80=9D

There was a double edged sword that c= ame about from the PSP process.

As mpls became mainstream so did customer SLA and so end to end Q= OS became the forefront importance to all service providers. =C2=A0

The major problem in the MPLS w= orld that came about with PSP is that when you pop that label at the egress= PE 1 hop before the ultimate hop.=C2=A0 What that did is the PE-P link the= packet is forwarded without the ldp topmost label intact preserved which c= ontained the EXP bits for end to end QOS scheduling.

A workaround fix to this issue was to institut= e a new feature called =E2=80=9Cexplicit null reserved label value 0=E2=80= =9D.=C2=A0 This was implemented using a QOS policy called =E2=80=9Cpipe mod= e=E2=80=9D that allowed the topmost label to now be preserved and =E2=80=9C= ultimate=E2=80=9D hopped which we today call UHP =E2=80=9CUltimate Hop POP= =E2=80=9D.

Another indus= try development that came about to get around the complexity of pipe mode Q= OS policy to UHP was a enlightening concept but unfortunately did not work = for all use cases.

So th= e new feature that came about was the ability to schedule outbound on each = node in the operator MPLS core on both =C2=A0on the topmost label EXP bits = of the topmost was present as well as on the preserved =C2=A0inner header d= scp this dual PHB scheduling capability based on which outer header existed= or didn=E2=80=99t exist. =C2=A0 This worked for enterprises where you have= trust relationship with your customer or are a customer of yourself.
=

In the service provide area U= HP ultimate hopping to preserve the ldp topmost label became the general ru= le of thumb golden standard to meet customer SLAs of end to end QOS.
<= div dir=3D"auto">
Coming back full circle to SRV= 6.

The concept of PSP wa= s added to SRv6 I believe to provide parity for operators learning curve as= well as similarities as SRV6 would be the replacement to mpls.

Based on what I have stated above p= roviding history of PHP and how it came about ; and now adding this truly l= egacy function to a NG protocol such as SRv6 to me does not make sense.

I don=E2=80=99t see the nec= essity to add just for the sake of adding or providing parity to a soon to = be legacy protocol.

I wo= uld like to see some technical justification as to why PSP is necessary wit= h our modern day routers to this in the PR spec.
Gyan





On Sat, Dec 14, 2019 at 10:08 PM Mark Smith <markzzzsmith@gmail.com> wrote:


On Fri, 13 Dec 2= 019, 07:50 Ron Bonica, <rbonica=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org= > wrote:
Pablo,

I am not convinced the benefit derived by the ultimate segment justifies th= e price paid by the penultimate segment. Specifically,

- the ultimate segment benefits because it doesn't have to skip over th= e SRH with SL =3D=3D 0
- in order for the ultimate segment to derive this benefit, the penultimate= segment needs to remove bytes from the middle of the packet and update two= fields in the IPv6 header

As Joel said, we typically don't add options (i.e., complexity) to a sp= ecification unless there is substantial benefit.


It's also contrary to the SPRING charter:

<= /div>
"SPRING WG should avoid modification to e= xisting data planes that would
make them incompatible with = existing deployments. Where possible,
existing control and = management plane protocols must be used within
existing arc= hitectures to implement the SPRING function."

The only time significant ch= anges to IPv6 operation should be proposed are if what is being tried to be= done is impossible using existing mechanisms, or there is a very significa= nt benefit that far outweighs the cost and consequences of changing a proto= col that is decades old and already has millions of deployments.

When significant changes to a prot= ocol are needed or would provide significant advantages, that's a sign = that either (a) it's the wrong protocol to try to use or (b) it's t= ime for a new version of the protocol.

The 'man' in 6man stands for 'maintenance'. = IPv6 is way past the development stage (that was 1995 and earlier).=C2=A0

It seems SPRING is common= ly taking a "new protocol development" approach regarding IPv6, r= ather than "use an existing protocol" approach. This "new pr= otocol development" approach is costing a lot of time and effort due t= o long debates that really shouldn't be needed if the SPRING charter wa= s being followed, and IPv6 was just being used rather than attempted to be = being redeveloped.

Regar= ds,
Mark.



=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Ron




Juniper Business Use Only

-----Original Message-----
From: spring <spring-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf = Of Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)
Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2019 3:12 PM
To: Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com>; sp= ring@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [spring] Is srv6 PSP a good idea

Joel,

1.- The use-case for PSP has already been provided at the mailer. There are= scenarios where it provides benefits to operators.

2.- The PSP behavior is optional. It is up to the operator in his deploymen= t to decide whether to enable it or not at one particular router.
Similarly, a vendor may decide not to implement it. The PSP behavior has be= en implemented by several vendors and deployed (see the srv6 deployment dra= ft).

3.- A network may have PSP enabled at some nodes and not at others.=C2=A0 E= verything is still interoperable and works fine.=C2=A0

4.- PSP is not a complex operation in hardware (doable at linerate on exist= ing merchant silicon).
Example: It has been implemented and deployed on Broadcom J/J+. If I recall= correctly Broadcom Jericho+ started shipping in March 2016! PSP is support= ed on this platform at linerate with no performance degradation (neither PP= PS nor BW).
Given that this is doable in a platform from more than 3 years ago, I fail = to see how you need "very special provision" to do this.

Is it really something that horrible to provide freedom of choice to the op= erators deploying?

In summary, it can be implemented without any burden in hardware and deploy= ment experience prove this is beneficial to operators.

Thanks,
Pablo.

=EF=BB=BF-----Original Message-----
From: spring <spring-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf = of "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com><= br> Date: Wednesday, 11 December 2019 at 03:55
To: "spring@ietf.org" <spring@ietf.org= >
Subject: [spring] Is srv6 PSP a good idea

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 For purposes of this thread, even if you think PSP violates R= FC 8200,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 let us assume that it is legal.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 As I understand it, the PSP situation is:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 o the packet arrives at the place (let's not argue about = whether SIDs
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 are locators) identified by the SID in the destination addres= s field
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 o that SID is the next to last SID in the SID list
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 o that sid is marked as / known to be PSP
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 o at the intended place in the processing pseudocode, the las= t (first)
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 entry in the SRH is copied into the destination IPv6 address = field of
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 the packet
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 -> The SRH being used is then removed from the packet.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 In order to evaluate whether this is a good idea, we have to = have some
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 idea of the benefit.=C2=A0 It may be that I am missing some o= f the benefit,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 and I would appreciate clarification.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 As far as I can tell, the benefit of this removal is that in = exchange
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 for this node doing the work of removing the SRH, the final n= ode in the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 SRH does not have to process the SRH at all, as it has been r= emoved.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 I have trouble seeing how that work tradeoff can be beneficia= l.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Removing bytes from the middle of a packet is a complex opera= tion.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Doing so in Silicon (we expect this to be done in the fast pa= th of
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 significant forwarders as I understand it) requires very spec= ial
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 provision.=C2=A0 Even in software, removing bytes from the mi= ddle of a packet
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 requires somewhere between some and a lot of extra work.=C2= =A0 It is
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 distinctly NOT free.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 In contrast, we have assumed that the work of processing SRH = itself is
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 tractable, since otherwise all of SRv6 would be problematic.= =C2=A0 So why is
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 this necessary.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Yours,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Joel

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 PS: Note that both the MPLS case and the encapsulation case a= re very
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 different in that the material being removed is at the front = of the IP
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 packet.=C2=A0 Pop or prepend are MUCH easier than middle-remo= val (or
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 middle-insertion).

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 _______________________________________________
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 spring mailing list
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 spring@ietf.org
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/mailman/lis= tinfo/spring__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!Uvd5DRUIJlsmob5a7r4JRgMMbZcE60JOPIW3K2MubKpIuK= XA1r78vsFpWAHa8hW2$


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--
<= div dir=3D"ltr">

Gyan S. Mishra

IT Networ= k Engineering & Technology=C2=A0=

Verizon Communications=C2=A0Inc. (VZ)=

13101 Columbia Pike FDC1 3rd Floor

=

Silver Spring, MD 20904

United States<= span style=3D"color:rgb(80,0,80);background-image:initial;background-positi= on:initial;background-repeat:initial">

Phone:=C2=A0301 502-1347

Email:=C2=A0gyan.s.mishra@verizon.= com

www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies-co= nsultant


--00000000000078df2f0599b85177-- From nobody Sat Dec 14 23:06:48 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2CAF120019 for ; Sat, 14 Dec 2019 23:06:47 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.997 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.997 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tUFJFbRDPD0z for ; Sat, 14 Dec 2019 23:06:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-il1-x132.google.com (mail-il1-x132.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::132]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1EC4F120005 for ; Sat, 14 Dec 2019 23:06:45 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-il1-x132.google.com with SMTP id p8so2877940iln.12 for ; Sat, 14 Dec 2019 23:06:44 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=RLX+XUWi2asMXB+yAOVBH0z6ywZFc36ZOA3taHD94js=; b=TnoN/Rz3+Fmr5ZjuQbLxqpWbyJNM8/qmpgIEAI53/EANujmNf23UlW6wVND5GjQqxM 4TKcQ9Un20dPZB48doZJrMPzyh5NDpbUb7hEJie9mISJNm6LMaQr25MLdjnzAWQkj6eL 5nPp+06GBPqQV8VFzVdjT4MdhffB+FGHBIHeEQwwIPT797CoR7g4DAeiO6ixHjVSLIf/ a8A6c5t75YW5RSaXqL4zQv5M6F5lyCSr/O0/UcFKi2Xi8hwD87nSvkZvRqGIVKEfy8ml UazwgnJyIxXS9n16fSOVUrqCJHPTbWfU+xXiW39QWPYLNOYaDwQn6gp+3s6RnZ5auYWp EXiw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=RLX+XUWi2asMXB+yAOVBH0z6ywZFc36ZOA3taHD94js=; b=nvAJdwmH6Ee89u3QrzS/GnoH/Bv9y+DlfNFwUm3Zu4IHrZUuZVB/AdGM2v/BHjzKHG I2iABw+RS/3K8SeI2LsjjaRCZDt2MBpsGduxGAbVN9IPvBnm0mxjyvPb5dxq90UbzS+j h69B5hgK5zo3VZi/34d24GNfKYCCuvfLbmz0yPvJAZ69K7Qz7dtV8jFlA2z/kXCL2Hwt 1DOUJOmfX0/YBSQu9dxzT4xrE+tgMB8nZR3ERPMr8BgGc/H138P+Da7+a6Ap3fnmwmPi QmptidyFb7Un0Mq3GL3YR1NkjMknnbSkfFIH3eu+UgcRVN6SCV/L0bJWVF5tlyJ9dyMt M4SQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUzqs7M2Jx9me0QfnmFBTYgV7J6sLBq9AoZwLQyGCpkf/8VvbgH ZTOQq4wPPBffIEqKyEnFx1WJbtO7K0JIM+uny8w= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyfxHMDV0NgdNeiBUVB+l3hRtn7cSxj6a9zThrLrwjhIg526CcMAB7rcvc5wmm7d4vmqKFyOKOh8G+Kv1mE9Gc= X-Received: by 2002:a92:350d:: with SMTP id c13mr7616794ila.205.1576393604229; Sat, 14 Dec 2019 23:06:44 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <8532651c71c94715abfa96990aec3854@nokia-sbell.com> In-Reply-To: <8532651c71c94715abfa96990aec3854@nokia-sbell.com> From: Gyan Mishra Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2019 02:06:33 -0500 Message-ID: To: "Wang, Weibin (NSB - CN/Shanghai)" Cc: "Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)" , "spring@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000ce7d3f0599b8bcf8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] USD/USP question in draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-06.txt X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2019 07:06:48 -0000 --000000000000ce7d3f0599b8bcf8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Wang I have a question regarding the PSP, USP and USD sections I pasted below. I just sent an email to Spring WG related to PSP and technically why that is necessary as that is a legacy concept that has parity to MPLS but is not used today due to QOS issues. Please see that email related to that topic. In the PSP section can If we have to keep PSP can we add verbiage that states that PSP removal of the SRH header occurs on the Penultimate egress P node. In the USP section can we also add that all remaining SRH present in the packet are popped on the egress PE ultimate node. In looking at these 3 SID functions the PSP and USP pop the EH and the USP removes the 6in6 encapsulation so that the other end.x dt4 dt6 etc can pop the services L3vpn headers. Why can=E2=80=99t the USD 6in6 encapsulation removal be done on with the US= P SID? Why does the USP and USD SID have to be separate? 4.16.1 . PSP: Penultimate Segment Pop of the SRH The SRH processing of the End, End.X and End.T behaviors are modified: after the instruction "S14. Update IPv6 DA with Segment List[Segments Left]" is executed, the following instructions must be executed as well: S14.1. If (updated SL =3D=3D 0) { S14.2. Pop the SRH S14.3. } 4.16.2 . USP: Ultimate Segment Pop of the SRH The SRH processing of the End, End.X and End.T behaviors are modified: the instructions S02-S04 are substituted by the following ones: S02. If (Segments Left =3D=3D 0) { S03. Pop the SRH S04. } 4.16.3 . USD: Ultimate Segment Decapsulation The SRH processing of the End, End.X and End.T behaviors are modified: the instructions S02-S04 are substituted by the following ones: S02. If (Segments Left =3D=3D 0) { S03. Skip the SRH processing and proceed to the next header S04. } Further on, the Upper-layer header processing of the End, End.X and End.T behaviors are modified as follows: Kind regards, Gyan On Sat, Dec 14, 2019 at 9:08 PM Wang, Weibin (NSB - CN/Shanghai) < weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com> wrote: > Hi Pablo: > > > > After the 2 context assumption in previous version of this draft, =E2=80= =9Cwe > assume that there is no other extension header than the SRH.=E2=80=9D an= d =E2=80=9CWe > assume > > that the SRH may be present multiple times inside each packet=E2=80=9D= , are > removed in this last draft, I feel a bit confusion on USD SID, as well as > combination of USD & USP. > > > > First, within the content of this last draft, the word =E2=80=9CFurther o= n=E2=80=9D marked > red in the following pseudocode in section =E2=80=9C4.16.3=E2=80=9D is ha= rd to understand > if the packet being processed has other EH embed between SRH and > Upper-layer header, such as AH or other EH, then the processing control o= f > this packet will be passed to normal IPv6 module from current SRH > processing module in SR-Node, so my question is : Can its control after > completing AH processing (for example) be back to SRH module (or call it > pseudocode module) to proceed the next header like =E2=80=9Cupper-lay hea= der type > =3D=3D41 or 4=E2=80=9D. > > Or, if not, Did you created a new EH processing protocol stack instance i= n > parallel to normal IPv6 module within the scope of SRH processing in > SR-node. > > > > 4.16.3. USD: Ultimate Segment Decapsulation > > > > S02. If (Segments Left =3D=3D 0) { > > S03. Skip the SRH processing and proceed to the next header > > S04. } > > > > Further on, the Upper-layer header processing of the End, End.X and > > End.T behaviors are modified as follows: > > > > End: > > S01. If (Upper-layer Header type =3D=3D 41 || 4) { > > S02. Remove the outer IPv6 Header with all its extension headers > > S03. Submit the packet to the egress IP FIB lookup and > > transmission to the new destination > > S04. } Else { > > S05. Send an ICMP Parameter Problem message to the Source Address > > Code 4 (SR Upper-layer Header Error), > > Pointer set to the offset of the upper-layer header. > > Interrupt packet processing and discard the packet. > > > > S06. } > > > > From my understanding, the all processing action about specific SID must > be completed successively. That is to say, upon USD, the upper-layer head= er > (type 41 or 4) must be followed the SRH header being processed currently, > or second SRH following the same rule (of course, the draft not consideri= ng > 2 or more successive SRHs). > > > > Second, the mixed SIDs function with combination of USD and USP (even > PSP&USD&USP), I think, it is easy to understand when the two assumption > above exist, but now I think it isn=E2=80=99t clear if you only provide t= he > following sentence in this draft, i.e. =E2=80=9Cif =E2=80=A6 else=E2=80= =A6=E2=80=9D statement: > > =E2=80=9CAn implementation that supports the USD flavor in conjunction wi= th > > the USP flavor MAY optimize the packet processing by first looking > > whether the conditions for the USD flavor are met, in which case it > > can proceed with USD processing else do USP processing.=E2=80=9D > > This confusion is also described in my another mail. Of course, if the > first question is addressed then this confusion does not exist. > > > > By the way, is it really no different in text description before and afte= r > the two context assumption above removed? > > > > > > *Cheers !* > > > > *WANG Weibin* > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > --=20 Gyan S. Mishra IT Network Engineering & Technology Verizon Communications Inc. (VZ) 13101 Columbia Pike FDC1 3rd Floor Silver Spring, MD 20904 United States Phone: 301 502-1347 Email: gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies-consultant --000000000000ce7d3f0599b8bcf8 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Wang

I have a ques= tion regarding the PSP, USP and USD sections I pasted below.

I j= ust sent an email to Spring WG related to PSP and technically why that is n= ecessary as that is a legacy concept that has parity to MPLS but is not use= d today due to QOS issues.=C2=A0 Please see that email related to that topi= c.
In the PSP section can If we have to keep PSP can we add verbi= age that states that PSP removal of the SRH header occurs on the Penultimat= e egress P node.

In the USP section can we also add that all rema= ining SRH present in the packet are popped on the egress PE ultimate node.<= /div>

<= /div>
In looking at these 3 SID functions the PSP and USP pop the EH an= d the USP removes the 6in6 encapsulation so that the other end.x dt4 dt6 et= c can pop the services L3vpn headers.

Why can=E2=80=99t the USD 6= in6 encapsulation removal be done on with the USP SID?

Why does t= he USP and USD SID have to be separate?

4.16.1.  PSP: Penultimate Segment Pop of the SRH


   The SRH processing of the End, End.X and End.T behaviors are
   modified: after the instruction "S14.  Update IPv6 DA with Segment
   List[Segments Left]" is executed, the following instructions must b=
e
   executed as well:

   S14.1.   If (updated SL =3D=3D 0) {
   S14.2.      Pop the SRH
   S14.3.   }


4.16.2.  USP: Ultimate Segment Pop of the SRH


   The SRH processing of the End, End.X and End.T behaviors are
   modified: the instructions S02-S04 are substituted by the following
   ones:

   S02.   If (Segments Left =3D=3D 0) {
   S03.       Pop the SRH
   S04.   }


=
4.16.3.  USD: Ultimate Segment Decapsulation


   The SRH processing of the End, End.X and End.T behaviors are
   modified: the instructions S02-S04 are substituted by the following
   ones:

   S02.   If (Segments Left =3D=3D 0) {
   S03.      Skip the SRH processing and proceed to the next header
   S04.   }


   Further on, the Upper-layer header processing of the End, End.X and
   End.T behaviors are modified as follows:


=
Kind regards,

Gyan

On Sat, Dec 14, 2019 at 9:08 PM Wang, Weibin = (NSB - CN/Shanghai) <weib= in.wang@nokia-sbell.com> wrote:

Hi Pablo:

=C2=A0

After the 2 context a= ssumption in previous version of this draft, =C2=A0=E2=80=9Cwe assume that there is no other extension header than the SRH.=E2=80=9D =C2=A0and =C2=A0=E2=80=9CWe assume

=C2=A0=C2=A0 that the SRH may be present multiple times inside each pac= ket=E2=80=9D, are removed in this last draft, I feel a bit confusion on USD SID, as well as combination of USD & USP.

=C2=A0

First, within the content of this last draft, the wo= rd =E2=80=9CFurther on=E2=80=9D marked red in the following pseudocode in s= ection =E2=80=9C4.16.3=E2=80=9D is hard to understand if the packet being p= rocessed has other EH embed between SRH and Upper-layer header, such as AH or other EH, then the processing control of this packet will be pass= ed to normal IPv6 module from current SRH processing module in SR-Node, so = my question is : Can its control after completing AH processing (for exampl= e) =C2=A0be back to SRH module (or call it pseudocode module) to proceed the next header like =E2=80=9Cupper-lay h= eader type =3D=3D41 or 4=E2=80=9D.

Or, if not, Did you created a new EH processing prot= ocol stack instance in parallel to normal IPv6 module within the scope of S= RH processing in SR-node.

=C2=A0

4.16.3.=C2=A0 USD: Ultimate= Segment Decapsulation

=C2=A0

S02.=C2=A0=C2=A0 If (Segments Left =3D=3D 0) {

=C2=A0=C2=A0 S03.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Skip the SRH processing= and proceed to the next header

=C2=A0=C2=A0 S04.=C2=A0=C2= =A0 }

=C2=A0

the Upper-layer header processing of the En= d, End.X and

=C2=A0=C2=A0 End.T behaviors are modified as follows:

=C2=A0

=C2=A0=C2=A0 End:

=C2=A0=C2=A0 S01. If (Upper-layer Header type =3D=3D 41 || 4) {<= u>

=C2=A0=C2=A0 S02.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Remove the outer IPv6 Header with a= ll its extension headers

=C2=A0=C2=A0 S03.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Submit the packet to the egress IP = FIB lookup and

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0 transmission to the new destination

=C2=A0=C2=A0 S04. } Else {

=C2=A0=C2=A0 S05.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Send an ICMP Parameter Problem mess= age to the Source Address

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0 Code 4 (SR Upper-layer Header Error),

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0 Pointer set to the offset of the upper-layer header.

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0 Interrupt packet processing and discard the packet.=

=C2=A0

=C2=A0=C2=A0 S06. }<= u>

=C2=A0

From my understanding, the all processing action abo= ut specific SID must be completed successively. That is to say, upon USD, t= he upper-layer header (type 41 or 4) must be followed the SRH header being = processed currently, or second SRH following the same rule (of course, the draft not considering 2 or more su= ccessive SRHs).

=C2=A0

Second, the mixed SIDs function with combination of = USD and USP (even PSP&USD&USP), I think, it is easy to understand w= hen the two assumption above exist, but now I think it isn=E2=80=99t clear = if you only provide the following sentence in this draft, i.e. =C2=A0=E2=80=9Cif =E2=80=A6 else=E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D statement:<= u>

=E2=80=9CAn implementation that supports the USD flavor in conjunction= with

=C2=A0=C2=A0 the USP flavor MAY optimize the packet processing by first= looking

=C2=A0=C2=A0 whether the conditions for the USD flavor are met, in whic= h case it

=C2=A0=C2=A0 can proceed wi= th USD processing else do USP processing.=E2=80=9D

This confusion is also described in my another mail.= Of course, if the first question is addressed then this confusion does not= exist.

=C2=A0

By the way, is it really no different in text descri= ption before and after the two context assumption above removed?<= /u>

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Cheers !

=C2=A0

WANG Weibin

_______________________________________________
spring mailing list
spring@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
--
<= div dir=3D"ltr">

Gyan S. Mishra

IT Networ= k Engineering & Technology=C2=A0=

Verizon Communications=C2=A0Inc. (VZ)=

13101 Columbia Pike FDC1 3rd Floor

=

Silver Spring, MD 20904

United States<= span style=3D"color:rgb(80,0,80);background-image:initial;background-positi= on:initial;background-repeat:initial">

Phone:=C2=A0301 502-1347

Email:=C2=A0gyan.s.mishra@verizon.= com

www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies-co= nsultant


--000000000000ce7d3f0599b8bcf8-- From nobody Sat Dec 14 23:28:55 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88231120019 for ; Sat, 14 Dec 2019 23:28:53 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.997 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.997 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dM8l7kMOFumh for ; Sat, 14 Dec 2019 23:28:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-il1-x12d.google.com (mail-il1-x12d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::12d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 962DE120005 for ; Sat, 14 Dec 2019 23:28:50 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-il1-x12d.google.com with SMTP id p8so2896359iln.12 for ; Sat, 14 Dec 2019 23:28:50 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=eslf84c6QK9EtDFBBFy0XF6uLlF47u42C5Zh0VXpywo=; b=iPvnqrjRZzabwZqiYUrF8lgK51pwBAmwnI87WkZJzRcdXKJvA3Cqu9RPNTQKJP+xTX A3nweYUtWtbqOJy2IeDGLBxpDBHmYG0Tz4Agpvs8dF1+gPaqLaTI9yWi+qLt51V3zyNf EE7B5cq/0pVplftILw6yYEB3+eTJ5iXRAjMAiZn4BBD4p1SW3Z75740B6fVinOU50B2b HVeQPYnBZ+qtnFqB4ktsOyl4rhny7w+uLqEfrXGlWjozsQIzKPHIAJjT2Za0N+9iQjWY Q8dePDwi5HUbNmOgxEs9Kk9V2dz8Ub8QuqxEc3GTD7oYIIljzfGp94KdVOt3m2C5lX+S 1Gqg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=eslf84c6QK9EtDFBBFy0XF6uLlF47u42C5Zh0VXpywo=; b=exFy+/yL6o70kGxbNNEP7VGknZpcsSMnuT5HBZ7jtqelm8bzA3y6fE53S4uEC218HL WgQUCb+lFHK0q23Ap48uKhsqH4vuP7dYIepalGwInPML9YWI/ae3QNgmDoMZwAirMYE9 5BTvkH64WDtC13mrmarABrygcW2C8FuBBGdvcZWtpR2me3HtTD9XFYyABYh7vtdBFaE4 n6RM+SFrZx39M8r5mw37OguQw5Y2rcDQ1OFHZDd07usN3ZP3Rq8CKTsvVuLT4GDUb7cZ zBKJHTvos6BwPq0+vZvfj01L4WyLzUPU2j7crF1IqFQsgf+nv2EUNoXc6I2Y1AnWBf+E bxlQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXF+RsRInvPzrAOvvwwbXx1zcVcGYLcUXlEP9bcAn3tesFTc/t+ 8i1rSlMuYZLXiI6PdzrNOseTS4+hUtmgy4KeFqk= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxcOPk7kmn5Pdeq5NKxsFzJqk5dN8ZYe84deePijXdcsLBz+07nH2rjI7Cdii97xt7Wp5MZm8udhZvxg1aAKYQ= X-Received: by 2002:a92:4095:: with SMTP id d21mr7187089ill.158.1576394929710; Sat, 14 Dec 2019 23:28:49 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <8532651c71c94715abfa96990aec3854@nokia-sbell.com> In-Reply-To: From: Gyan Mishra Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2019 02:26:22 -0500 Message-ID: To: "Wang, Weibin (NSB - CN/Shanghai)" Cc: "Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)" , "Voyer, Daniel" , "spring@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000cfade40599b90b3e" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] USD/USP question in draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-06.txt X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2019 07:28:53 -0000 --000000000000cfade40599b90b3e Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Wang & Pablo & Spring Authors, Had another question? These 4 sections. Trying to understand the difference between end.dx4 end.dx6 and end.dt4 and end.dt6. They both seem very similar. One says xconnect but other has v4 v6 lookup but for both you have to signal L3 vpn services sid. Not sure why both SIDs dx dt Sid function why they cannot be combined. I noticed this difference below that the dx4 dt4 account for the global table scenario where the PE-CE is native IPv4 or IPv6. In the MPLS world that use case is very different in that there is not any L3 vpn label and do the label stack only had a single topmost label. Also in the MPLS scenario with IPv6 global table PE-CE with a IPv4 core you require BGP -LU labeled unicast =E2=80=9Csend label=E2=80=9D to label all the IPv6 prefixed= tunneled over IPv4. Since that scenario is very different with global table does it make sense to have a separate End.x variant for global table for both IPv4 and IPv6. Note that an End.DT6 may be defined for the main IPv6 table in which case and End.DT6 supports the equivalent of an IPv6inIPv6 decapsulation (without VPN/tenant implication). 4.4 . End.DX6: Decapsulation and IPv6 cross-connect . . . . . . 12 4.5 . End.DX4: Decapsulation and IPv4 cross-connect . . . . . . 13 4.6 . End.DT6: Decapsulation and specific IPv6 table lookup . . 14 4.7 . End.DT4: Decapsulation and specific IPv4 table lookup . . 15 Also I was trying to understand end.dt46. So if the PE-CE edge is dual stacked anhas both v4 and v6 you have a VRF tenant v4 and v6 separate peers signaled via L3 vpn services TLV. So why do you need this end.dt46 sid 4.8 . End.DT46: Decapsulation and specific IP table lookup . . 16 Kind Regards, Gyan On Sun, Dec 15, 2019 at 2:06 AM Gyan Mishra wrote: > Hi Wang > > I have a question regarding the PSP, USP and USD sections I pasted below. > > I just sent an email to Spring WG related to PSP and technically why that > is necessary as that is a legacy concept that has parity to MPLS but is n= ot > used today due to QOS issues. Please see that email related to that topi= c. > > > In the PSP section can If we have to keep PSP can we add verbiage that > states that PSP removal of the SRH header occurs on the Penultimate egres= s > P node. > > In the USP section can we also add that all remaining SRH present in the > packet are popped on the egress PE ultimate node. > > In looking at these 3 SID functions the PSP and USP pop the EH and the US= P > removes the 6in6 encapsulation so that the other end.x dt4 dt6 etc can po= p > the services L3vpn headers. > > Why can=E2=80=99t the USD 6in6 encapsulation removal be done on with the = USP SID? > > Why does the USP and USD SID have to be separate? > > 4.16.1 . PSP: Penultimate Segment Pop of the SRH > > The SRH processing of the End, End.X and End.T behaviors are > modified: after the instruction "S14. Update IPv6 DA with Segment > List[Segments Left]" is executed, the following instructions must be > executed as well: > > S14.1. If (updated SL =3D=3D 0) { > S14.2. Pop the SRH > S14.3. } > 4.16.2 . USP: Ultimate Segment Pop of the SRH > > The SRH processing of the End, End.X and End.T behaviors are > modified: the instructions S02-S04 are substituted by the following > ones: > > S02. If (Segments Left =3D=3D 0) { > S03. Pop the SRH > S04. } > > 4.16.3 . USD: Ultimate Segment Decapsulation > > > The SRH processing of the End, End.X and End.T behaviors are > modified: the instructions S02-S04 are substituted by the following > ones: > > S02. If (Segments Left =3D=3D 0) { > S03. Skip the SRH processing and proceed to the next header > S04. } > > > Further on, the Upper-layer header processing of the End, End.X and > End.T behaviors are modified as follows: > > > > Kind regards, > > > Gyan > > > On Sat, Dec 14, 2019 at 9:08 PM Wang, Weibin (NSB - CN/Shanghai) < > weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com> wrote: > >> Hi Pablo: >> >> >> >> After the 2 context assumption in previous version of this draft, =E2= =80=9Cwe >> assume that there is no other extension header than the SRH.=E2=80=9D a= nd =E2=80=9CWe >> assume >> >> that the SRH may be present multiple times inside each packet=E2=80= =9D, are >> removed in this last draft, I feel a bit confusion on USD SID, as well a= s >> combination of USD & USP. >> >> >> >> First, within the content of this last draft, the word =E2=80=9CFurther = on=E2=80=9D >> marked red in the following pseudocode in section =E2=80=9C4.16.3=E2=80= =9D is hard to >> understand if the packet being processed has other EH embed between SRH = and >> Upper-layer header, such as AH or other EH, then the processing control = of >> this packet will be passed to normal IPv6 module from current SRH >> processing module in SR-Node, so my question is : Can its control after >> completing AH processing (for example) be back to SRH module (or call i= t >> pseudocode module) to proceed the next header like =E2=80=9Cupper-lay he= ader type >> =3D=3D41 or 4=E2=80=9D. >> >> Or, if not, Did you created a new EH processing protocol stack instance >> in parallel to normal IPv6 module within the scope of SRH processing in >> SR-node. >> >> >> >> 4.16.3. USD: Ultimate Segment Decapsulation >> >> >> >> S02. If (Segments Left =3D=3D 0) { >> >> S03. Skip the SRH processing and proceed to the next header >> >> S04. } >> >> >> >> Further on, the Upper-layer header processing of the End, End.X and >> >> End.T behaviors are modified as follows: >> >> >> >> End: >> >> S01. If (Upper-layer Header type =3D=3D 41 || 4) { >> >> S02. Remove the outer IPv6 Header with all its extension headers >> >> S03. Submit the packet to the egress IP FIB lookup and >> >> transmission to the new destination >> >> S04. } Else { >> >> S05. Send an ICMP Parameter Problem message to the Source Address >> >> Code 4 (SR Upper-layer Header Error), >> >> Pointer set to the offset of the upper-layer header. >> >> Interrupt packet processing and discard the packet. >> >> >> >> S06. } >> >> >> >> From my understanding, the all processing action about specific SID must >> be completed successively. That is to say, upon USD, the upper-layer hea= der >> (type 41 or 4) must be followed the SRH header being processed currently= , >> or second SRH following the same rule (of course, the draft not consider= ing >> 2 or more successive SRHs). >> >> >> >> Second, the mixed SIDs function with combination of USD and USP (even >> PSP&USD&USP), I think, it is easy to understand when the two assumption >> above exist, but now I think it isn=E2=80=99t clear if you only provide = the >> following sentence in this draft, i.e. =E2=80=9Cif =E2=80=A6 else=E2=80= =A6=E2=80=9D statement: >> >> =E2=80=9CAn implementation that supports the USD flavor in conjunction w= ith >> >> the USP flavor MAY optimize the packet processing by first looking >> >> whether the conditions for the USD flavor are met, in which case it >> >> can proceed with USD processing else do USP processing.=E2=80=9D >> >> This confusion is also described in my another mail. Of course, if the >> first question is addressed then this confusion does not exist. >> >> >> >> By the way, is it really no different in text description before and >> after the two context assumption above removed? >> >> >> >> >> >> *Cheers !* >> >> >> >> *WANG Weibin* >> _______________________________________________ >> spring mailing list >> spring@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring >> > -- > > Gyan S. Mishra > > IT Network Engineering & Technology > > Verizon Communications Inc. (VZ) > > 13101 Columbia Pike FDC1 3rd Floor > > Silver Spring, MD 20904 > > United States > > Phone: 301 502-1347 > > Email: gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com > > www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies-consultant > > -- Gyan S. Mishra IT Network Engineering & Technology Verizon Communications Inc. (VZ) 13101 Columbia Pike FDC1 3rd Floor Silver Spring, MD 20904 United States Phone: 301 502-1347 Email: gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies-consultant --000000000000cfade40599b90b3e Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Wang & Pablo & Spring Auth= ors,

Had another questio= n?

These 4 sections.=C2= =A0 Trying to understand the difference between end.dx4 end.dx6 and end.dt4= and end.dt6.=C2=A0 They both seem very similar.=C2=A0 One says xconnect bu= t other has v4 v6 lookup but for both you have to signal =C2=A0L3 vpn servi= ces sid.=C2=A0 Not sure why both SIDs dx dt Sid function why they cannot be= combined.

I noticed thi= s difference below that the dx4 dt4 account for the global table scenario w= here the PE-CE is native IPv4 or IPv6.=C2=A0 In the MPLS world that use cas= e is very different in that there is not any L3 vpn label and do the label = stack only had a single topmost label.=C2=A0 Also in the MPLS scenario with= IPv6 global table PE-CE with a IPv4 core you require BGP -LU labeled unica= st =E2=80=9Csend label=E2=80=9D to label all the IPv6 prefixed tunneled ove= r IPv4. =C2=A0 Since that scenario is very different with global table does= it make sense to have a separate End.x variant for global table for both I= Pv4 and IPv6.

   Note that an End.DT6 may be defined for the main IPv6 table=
 in which
   case and End.DT6 supports the equivalent of an IPv6inIPv6
   decapsulation (without VPN/tenant implication).

     4.4.  End.DX6: Decapsulation and IPv6 cross-connect . .=
 . . . .  12
     4.5.  End.DX4: Decapsulation and IPv4 cross=
-connect . . . . . .  13
     4.6.  End.DT6: Decapsulation and specific I=
Pv6 table lookup . .  14
     4.7.  End.DT4: Decapsulation and specific I=
Pv4 table lookup . .  15

Also I was trying to understand end.dt46.=


So if the PE-=
CE edge is dual stacked anhas both v4 and v6 you have a VRF tenant v4 and v=
6 separate peers signaled via L3 vpn services TLV.  So why do you need this=
 end.dt46 sid

=
4.8.  End.DT46: Decapsulation and specific IP table lookup  . . =
 16
     

Kind Regards,

Gyan

On Sun, Dec 15, 2019 at 2:06 AM Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Wang
<= /div>

<= /div>
I have a question regarding the PSP, USP and USD sections I paste= d below.

I just sent an email to Spring WG related to PSP and tec= hnically why that is necessary as that is a legacy concept that has parity = to MPLS but is not used today due to QOS issues.=C2=A0 Please see that emai= l related to that topic.


In the PSP section can If we have to kee= p PSP can we add verbiage that states that PSP removal of the SRH header oc= curs on the Penultimate egress P node.

In the USP section can we = also add that all remaining SRH present in the packet are popped on the egr= ess PE ultimate node.

In looking at these 3 SID functions the PSP= and USP pop the EH and the USP removes the 6in6 encapsulation so that the = other end.x dt4 dt6 etc can pop the services L3vpn headers.

Why= can=E2=80=99t the USD 6in6 encapsulation removal be done on with the USP S= ID?
<= br>
Why does the USP and USD SID have to be separate?

4.16.1.  PSP: Penultima=
te Segment Pop of the SRH


   The SRH processing of the End, End.X and End.T behaviors are
   modified: after the instruction "S14.  Update IPv6 DA with Segment
   List[Segments Left]" is executed, the following instructions must b=
e
   executed as well:

   S14.1.   If (updated SL =3D=3D 0) {
   S14.2.      Pop the SRH
   S14.3.   }


4.16.2.  USP: Ultimate Segment Pop=
 of the SRH


   The SRH processing of the End, End.X and End.T behaviors are
   modified: the instructions S02-S04 are substituted by the following
   ones:

   S02.   If (Segments Left =3D=3D 0) {
   S03.       Pop the SRH
   S04.   }


=
4.16.3.  USD: Ultimate Segment Decapsulation


   The SRH processing of the End, End.X and End.T behaviors are
   modified: the instructions S02-S04 are substituted by the following
   ones:

   S02.   If (Segments Left =3D=3D 0) {
   S03.      Skip the SRH processing and proceed to the next header
   S04.   }


   Further on, the Upper-layer header processing of the End, End.X and
   End.T behaviors are modified as follows:


=
Kind regards,

Gyan

On= Sat, Dec 14, 2019 at 9:08 PM Wang, Weibin (NSB - CN/Shanghai) <weibin.wang@nokia= -sbell.com> wrote:

Hi Pablo:

=C2=A0

After the 2 context a= ssumption in previous version of this draft, =C2=A0=E2=80=9Cwe assume that there is no other extension header than the SRH.=E2=80=9D =C2=A0and =C2=A0=E2=80=9CWe assume

=C2=A0=C2=A0 that the SRH may be present multiple times inside each pac= ket=E2=80=9D, are removed in this last draft, I feel a bit confusion on USD SID, as well as combination of USD & USP.

=C2=A0

First, within the content of this last draft, the wo= rd =E2=80=9CFurther on=E2=80=9D marked red in the following pseudocode in s= ection =E2=80=9C4.16.3=E2=80=9D is hard to understand if the packet being p= rocessed has other EH embed between SRH and Upper-layer header, such as AH or other EH, then the processing control of this packet will be pass= ed to normal IPv6 module from current SRH processing module in SR-Node, so = my question is : Can its control after completing AH processing (for exampl= e) =C2=A0be back to SRH module (or call it pseudocode module) to proceed the next header like =E2=80=9Cupper-lay h= eader type =3D=3D41 or 4=E2=80=9D.

Or, if not, Did you created a new EH processing prot= ocol stack instance in parallel to normal IPv6 module within the scope of S= RH processing in SR-node.

=C2=A0

4.16.3.=C2=A0 USD: Ultimate= Segment Decapsulation

=C2=A0

S02.=C2=A0=C2=A0 If (Segments Left =3D=3D 0) {

=C2=A0=C2=A0 S03.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Skip the SRH processing= and proceed to the next header

=C2=A0=C2=A0 S04.=C2=A0=C2= =A0 }

=C2=A0

the Upper-layer header processing of the En= d, End.X and

=C2=A0=C2=A0 End.T behaviors are modified as follows:

=C2=A0

=C2=A0=C2=A0 End:

=C2=A0=C2=A0 S01. If (Upper-layer Header type =3D=3D 41 || 4) {<= u>

=C2=A0=C2=A0 S02.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Remove the outer IPv6 Header with a= ll its extension headers

=C2=A0=C2=A0 S03.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Submit the packet to the egress IP = FIB lookup and

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0 transmission to the new destination

=C2=A0=C2=A0 S04. } Else {

=C2=A0=C2=A0 S05.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Send an ICMP Parameter Problem mess= age to the Source Address

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0 Code 4 (SR Upper-layer Header Error),

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0 Pointer set to the offset of the upper-layer header.

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0 Interrupt packet processing and discard the packet.=

=C2=A0

=C2=A0=C2=A0 S06. }<= u>

=C2=A0

From my understanding, the all processing action abo= ut specific SID must be completed successively. That is to say, upon USD, t= he upper-layer header (type 41 or 4) must be followed the SRH header being = processed currently, or second SRH following the same rule (of course, the draft not considering 2 or more su= ccessive SRHs).

=C2=A0

Second, the mixed SIDs function with combination of = USD and USP (even PSP&USD&USP), I think, it is easy to understand w= hen the two assumption above exist, but now I think it isn=E2=80=99t clear = if you only provide the following sentence in this draft, i.e. =C2=A0=E2=80=9Cif =E2=80=A6 else=E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D statement:<= u>

=E2=80=9CAn implementation that supports the USD flavor in conjunction= with

=C2=A0=C2=A0 the USP flavor MAY optimize the packet processing by first= looking

=C2=A0=C2=A0 whether the conditions for the USD flavor are met, in whic= h case it

=C2=A0=C2=A0 can proceed wi= th USD processing else do USP processing.=E2=80=9D

This confusion is also described in my another mail.= Of course, if the first question is addressed then this confusion does not= exist.

=C2=A0

By the way, is it really no different in text descri= ption before and after the two context assumption above removed?<= /u>

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Cheers !

=C2=A0

WANG Weibin

_______________________________________________
spring mailing list
spring@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
--

Gyan S. Mishra

IT Network Engineering & Technology=C2=A0=

Verizon Communications=C2=A0Inc. (VZ)=

13101 Columbia Pike FDC1 3rd Floor

=

Silver Spring, MD 20904

United States<= span style=3D"color:rgb(80,0,80);background-image:initial;background-positi= on:initial;background-repeat:initial">

Phone:=C2=A0301 502-1347

Email:=C2=A0gyan.s.mishra@verizon.= com

www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies-co= nsultant


--
<= div dir=3D"ltr">

Gyan S. Mishra

IT Networ= k Engineering & Technology=C2=A0=

Verizon Communications=C2=A0Inc. (VZ)=

13101 Columbia Pike FDC1 3rd Floor

=

Silver Spring, MD 20904

United States<= span style=3D"color:rgb(80,0,80);background-image:initial;background-positi= on:initial;background-repeat:initial">

Phone:=C2=A0301 502-1347

Email:=C2=A0gyan.s.mishra@verizon.= com

www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies-co= nsultant


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Thread-Topic: [spring] USD/USP question in draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-06.txt Thread-Index: AdWy4hb6WRZE2f3ZSWKmDwtbtf5+NP//4hKA//93PcA= Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2019 07:54:26 +0000 Message-ID: References: <8532651c71c94715abfa96990aec3854@nokia-sbell.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [135.251.51.115] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_a6282a8389fd4441ba51797209a8dcafnokiasbellcom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFtrEIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsXS/ts4VXfTs6+xBisXa1lsaGhitPh1fBeL xfELvxkdmD2m/N7I6rFz1l12jyVLfjIFMEdx2aSk5mSWpRbp2yVwZaxa3MJeMKONuWLSyi3M DYxNf5i6GDk5JARMJF5eeM7excjFISRwiEmi/+UDRgjnL6PEzm+tUJlNjBK/l/5nB2lhE3CT mLRtFxuILSKgLtHx4SFYnFkgRmLzkgWMILawQKzEti0TmSBq4iT6P81mhrCtJI7e+wPWyyKg KjH1/02gXg4OXgE7iTeTMiB2tTJKXH9xA6yXUyBQ4v/GRrD5jAJiEt9PrWGC2CUucevJfKgX BCSW7DnPDGGLSrx8/I8VZKaEgJJE3wao8lSJ3WffsYLYvAKCEidnPmGZwCg6C8mkWUjKZiEp 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-0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <38b14bf5-b6d9-4d46-ad1d-d26d3376df51@Spark> In-Reply-To: From: Gyan Mishra Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2019 02:59:07 -0500 Message-ID: To: Nat Kao Cc: Jeff Tantsura , spring@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000f021260599b978d8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Different MSDs for different traffic types on the same headend. X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2019 07:59:23 -0000 --000000000000f021260599b978d8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jeff With SR-MPLS with SR-TR let=E2=80=99s say if you use cSPF snd don=E2=80=99t= have an ERO strict explicit path defined or is a loose path, then the for the cSPF would the transport labels be 1. For loose would also be 1 also. If the path were explicit defined to egress PE and was 7 hops from ingress to egress then transport would be 6. And if L3 vpn service sid was signaled that would be 1 vpn label. Let me know if I have that right. In Nats scenario for IPv6 he has 3 vpnv6 labels. Why is that? With both SR-MPLS and SRv6 the L3 vpn AFI/SAFI MBGP services overlay single label sits on top off SR as if does today with MPLS so why 3 vpn labels. So with this draft with BGP-LS and BMI-MSD you can flood into the IGP the SID depth so all the nodes along the SR-TE path don=E2=80=99t go over the m= aximum which would result in an error. If you set your MTU high enough in the core like 9216, does that overcome the SID depth issues with SR-TE? Warm regards, Gyan On Sat, Dec 14, 2019 at 2:43 AM Nat Kao wrote: > Hi, Jeff. > > Thanks for the BMI-MSD reference. If I understand correctly: > > BMI-MSD =3D Transport Label Depth + Service Label Depth > Only former can be utilized by SR-TE policies. > > Currently do we have any method to determine the composition of BMI? > We need to know the transport label depth when doing service route > per-destination steering. > > This problem arises when trying to steer a plain IPv4 route and a VPN > service route into the same SR-TE policy that exceeds the transport label > depth of the service route. I'm trying to figure out the standard behavio= r > in this case since the headend we use currently produces some interesting > results. > > Regards, > Nat. > > On Sat, Dec 14, 2019 at 2:42 AM Jeff Tantsura > wrote: > >> Hi Nat, >> >> Please read https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8491#section-5 >> Currently defined MSD types are: >> 1: BMI >> 2: ERLD >> >> Specifically to BMI: >> Base MPLS Imposition MSD (BMI-MSD) signals the total number of MPLS labe= ls >> that can be imposed, including all service/transport/special labels. >> The answer to your question is 6 >> >> Cheers, >> Jeff >> On Dec 13, 2019, 3:42 AM -0800, Nat Kao , wrote: >> >> Hello, SPRING WG. >> >> How do we deal with an SR-TE policy headend with different MSDs for >> different types of traffic? >> For example, a headend H can impose: >> 6 transport labels for plain IPv4 packets; >> 5 transport labels + 1 IPv6 ExpNull label for plain IPv6 packets; >> 3 transport labels + 3 VPN labels for VPN packets. >> >> a) For a plain IPv4 route R4 and a VPN route Rv both steered into the >> SR-TE policy P1 with SID list , what will H perform = in >> this situation? >> b) What is the MSD of H? 6, 5 or 3? >> >> Thanks, >> Nat. >> _______________________________________________ >> spring mailing list >> spring@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring >> >> _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > --=20 Gyan S. Mishra IT Network Engineering & Technology Verizon Communications Inc. (VZ) 13101 Columbia Pike FDC1 3rd Floor Silver Spring, MD 20904 United States Phone: 301 502-1347 Email: gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies-consultant --000000000000f021260599b978d8 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Jeff

With SR-MPLS with SR-TR let=E2=80=99s say if you use cSPF snd don= =E2=80=99t have an ERO strict explicit path defined or is a loose path, the= n the for the cSPF would the transport labels be 1.=C2=A0 For loose would a= lso be 1 also.=C2=A0 If the path were explicit defined to egress PE and was= 7 hops from ingress to egress then transport would be 6.=C2=A0 And if L3 v= pn service sid was signaled that would be 1 vpn label. =C2=A0

Let me know if I have that right. =C2= =A0

In Nats scenario for= IPv6 he has 3 vpnv6 labels. =C2=A0

Why is that? =C2=A0

With both SR-MPLS and SRv6 the L3 vpn AFI/SAFI MBGP services over= lay single label sits on top off SR as if does today with MPLS so why 3 vpn= labels.

So with this dr= aft with BGP-LS and BMI-MSD you can flood into the IGP the SID depth so all= the nodes along the SR-TE path don=E2=80=99t go over the maximum which wou= ld result in an error.

I= f you set your MTU high enough in the core like 9216, does that overcome th= e SID depth issues with SR-TE?

Warm=C2=A0regards,

Gyan

On Sat, Dec 14, 2019 at 2:43 AM Nat Kao <lekao@pyxisworks.org> wrote:
Hi, Jeff.

Thanks for the BMI-MSD reference. If I understand correctly:

BMI-MSD =3D Transport Label Depth + Service Label De= pth
Only former can be utilized by SR-TE policies.

=
Currently do we have any method to determine the compositi= on of BMI?
We need to know the transport label de= pth when doing service route per-destination steering.

This problem arises when trying to steer a plain= IPv4 route and a VPN service route into the same SR-TE policy that exceeds= the transport label depth of the service route. I'm trying to figure o= ut the standard behavior in this case since the headend we use currently pr= oduces some interesting results.

Regards,
Nat.

On Sat, Dec 14, 2019 at 2:42 AM Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmai= l.com> wrote:
Hi Nat,

Currently defined MSD types are:=C2=A0
1: BMI
2: ERLD

Specifically to BMI:
Base MPLS Imposition MSD (BMI-MSD) signals the total numb= er of MPLS=C2=A0labels that can be imposed, including all service/tra= nsport/special=C2=A0labels.
The answer to your question is 6

Cheers,
Jeff
On Dec 13, 2019, 3:42 AM -0800, Nat Kao &= lt;lekao@pyxiswor= ks.org>, wrote:
Hello, SPRING WG.

How do we deal with an SR-TE policy headend with different MSDs for differe= nt types of traffic?
For example, a headend H can impose:
6 transport labels for plain IPv4 packets;
5 transport labels + 1 IPv6 ExpNull label for plain IPv6 packets;
3 transport labels=C2=A0+ 3 VPN=C2=A0 labels for VPN packets.

a) For a plain IPv4 route R4 and a VPN route Rv both steered into the SR-TE= policy P1 with SID list <S1, S2, S3, S4, S5>, what will H perform in= this situation?
b) What is the MSD of H? 6, 5 or 3?

Thanks,
Nat.
_______________________________________________
spring mailing list
spring@ietf.org = https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
_______________________________________________
spring mailing list
spring@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
--
<= div dir=3D"ltr">

Gyan S. Mishra

IT Networ= k Engineering & Technology=C2=A0=

Verizon Communications=C2=A0Inc. (VZ)=

13101 Columbia Pike FDC1 3rd Floor

=

Silver Spring, MD 20904

United States<= span style=3D"color:rgb(80,0,80);background-image:initial;background-positi= on:initial;background-repeat:initial">

Phone:=C2=A0301 502-1347

Email:=C2=A0gyan.s.mishra@verizon.= com

www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies-co= nsultant


--000000000000f021260599b978d8-- From nobody Sun Dec 15 00:04:56 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CC26120071 for ; Sun, 15 Dec 2019 00:04:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.997 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.997 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, FREEMAIL_REPLY=1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4O5uOgv0JhNK for ; Sun, 15 Dec 2019 00:04:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-io1-xd30.google.com (mail-io1-xd30.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d30]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 99BBF120005 for ; Sun, 15 Dec 2019 00:04:51 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-io1-xd30.google.com with SMTP id v18so2828023iol.2 for ; Sun, 15 Dec 2019 00:04:51 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=v0Ml578zkEUrMnhfdMrBATp2+gZFdTjlsPlrNA1yL7k=; b=IlTr+nR1ryQlcLQ7nsQXGzK6LJT2iyWAcY5mQ01SNpF+AVEym5DLG0nBg463wHu8xu 0OTVh+gqJWjgxjx1hA9Vh0e2GkP6tsVyhhZReXRQ6xsNfCTiuBBi/RxFfEodqP1Y4A4e 4A4Vdsu/E9N6RjkxRj3EFcTtdLjBh/fGgLriHbHSw57khJQlVZbGxujaqYZs4F8Y757t yUlJ2SNPGWqmchN0Xr7OsX9nrGLx/oRhYFgS4A6e3tyE4LnUVfaM34ULiDiKHSciip6z BIpTLtOqwdxoJdln3Y6BL0L+Rivx9Za95T36NrrIOsEPytTOcHjsbuePJnI5n3jxEjGn b/xg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=v0Ml578zkEUrMnhfdMrBATp2+gZFdTjlsPlrNA1yL7k=; b=P0Ih35hQvEp4fi6qguHt44Y1xtrQ1ffAxHqMlL9R2wKg89R02VgfhptIIMqiqtgIrt CBhNMyfZe6kYVmsaQFcGk21Md9zekDP7BT04Cac8s4/xbRFzxCmiiwd6NC2mlWW/WRjF VX8BSuRxNh45g7ITX2xRhxZM6Hvg7nlSNpiOj80f9UiHkNIh8GPW4KfAHL2McNBfYvZd gtZi38CK51FHCnoRn4NLoKl717jlUGRp0NjThGSS+yNVr1AZchjGrl3KN+LfynUzgHho VxnwOXFkFGvHjXd4s3G4l9ptZfnVjaZO8kwmBwBNWkDSuYfcnlusv/jER9FmimT7LPmF 3f0A== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXwY5hlfhJwnVKpmM9DbL1CBg8E2x8MNtQKH6ZUw/7hwssSmuD4 xBE0UTG9FnwLGEuDhYNy6GhjOuK8fC7BSDUhbS5/VXCdlng= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyqDlFxaPgxCqzJXySEDYn+a3YIIvfii4pVa9IBQT8+ymQzMmX7NWQJdwbIb+J5/vkwtZXIWjKTg3pWlsmaM1A= X-Received: by 2002:a6b:c9ca:: with SMTP id z193mr13823015iof.276.1576397090792; Sun, 15 Dec 2019 00:04:50 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <38b14bf5-b6d9-4d46-ad1d-d26d3376df51@Spark> In-Reply-To: From: Gyan Mishra Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2019 03:04:40 -0500 Message-ID: To: Nat Kao Cc: Jeff Tantsura , spring@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000009f2a4c0599b98c4e" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Different MSDs for different traffic types on the same headend. X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2019 08:04:54 -0000 --0000000000009f2a4c0599b98c4e Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Spring Does anyone know if there are plans to add RSVP PCALC path and reserve model to both SR-TE for SR-MPLS and TI-LFA for SRv6. That would be good so that we can still use the benefits of MOLS TE for bandwidth management using auto bandwidthor PCALC bandwidth management in pcep distributed or centralized controller model. Warm regards, Gyan On Sun, Dec 15, 2019 at 2:59 AM Gyan Mishra wrote: > Jeff > > With SR-MPLS with SR-TR let=E2=80=99s say if you use cSPF snd don=E2=80= =99t have an ERO > strict explicit path defined or is a loose path, then the for the cSPF > would the transport labels be 1. For loose would also be 1 also. If the > path were explicit defined to egress PE and was 7 hops from ingress to > egress then transport would be 6. And if L3 vpn service sid was signaled > that would be 1 vpn label. > > Let me know if I have that right. > > In Nats scenario for IPv6 he has 3 vpnv6 labels. > > Why is that? > > With both SR-MPLS and SRv6 the L3 vpn AFI/SAFI MBGP services overlay > single label sits on top off SR as if does today with MPLS so why 3 vpn > labels. > > So with this draft with BGP-LS and BMI-MSD you can flood into the IGP the > SID depth so all the nodes along the SR-TE path don=E2=80=99t go over the= maximum > which would result in an error. > > If you set your MTU high enough in the core like 9216, does that overcome > the SID depth issues with SR-TE? > > Warm regards, > > Gyan > > On Sat, Dec 14, 2019 at 2:43 AM Nat Kao wrote: > >> Hi, Jeff. >> >> Thanks for the BMI-MSD reference. If I understand correctly: >> >> BMI-MSD =3D Transport Label Depth + Service Label Depth >> Only former can be utilized by SR-TE policies. >> >> Currently do we have any method to determine the composition of BMI? >> We need to know the transport label depth when doing service route >> per-destination steering. >> >> This problem arises when trying to steer a plain IPv4 route and a VPN >> service route into the same SR-TE policy that exceeds the transport labe= l >> depth of the service route. I'm trying to figure out the standard behavi= or >> in this case since the headend we use currently produces some interestin= g >> results. >> >> Regards, >> Nat. >> >> On Sat, Dec 14, 2019 at 2:42 AM Jeff Tantsura > > wrote: >> >>> Hi Nat, >>> >>> Please read https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8491#section-5 >>> Currently defined MSD types are: >>> 1: BMI >>> 2: ERLD >>> >>> Specifically to BMI: >>> Base MPLS Imposition MSD (BMI-MSD) signals the total number of MPLS lab= els >>> that can be imposed, including all service/transport/special labels. >>> The answer to your question is 6 >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Jeff >>> On Dec 13, 2019, 3:42 AM -0800, Nat Kao , wrote: >>> >>> Hello, SPRING WG. >>> >>> How do we deal with an SR-TE policy headend with different MSDs for >>> different types of traffic? >>> For example, a headend H can impose: >>> 6 transport labels for plain IPv4 packets; >>> 5 transport labels + 1 IPv6 ExpNull label for plain IPv6 packets; >>> 3 transport labels + 3 VPN labels for VPN packets. >>> >>> a) For a plain IPv4 route R4 and a VPN route Rv both steered into the >>> SR-TE policy P1 with SID list , what will H perform= in >>> this situation? >>> b) What is the MSD of H? 6, 5 or 3? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Nat. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> spring mailing list >>> spring@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> spring mailing list >> spring@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring >> > -- > > Gyan S. Mishra > > IT Network Engineering & Technology > > Verizon Communications Inc. (VZ) > > 13101 Columbia Pike FDC1 3rd Floor > > Silver Spring, MD 20904 > > United States > > Phone: 301 502-1347 > > Email: gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com > > www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies-consultant > > -- Gyan S. Mishra IT Network Engineering & Technology Verizon Communications Inc. (VZ) 13101 Columbia Pike FDC1 3rd Floor Silver Spring, MD 20904 United States Phone: 301 502-1347 Email: gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies-consultant --0000000000009f2a4c0599b98c4e Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Spring

Does anyone know if there are plans to add RSVP PCALC = path and reserve model to both SR-TE for SR-MPLS and TI-LFA for SRv6.=C2=A0= That would be good so that we can still use the benefits of MOLS TE for ba= ndwidth management using auto bandwidthor PCALC bandwidth management in pce= p =C2=A0distributed or centralized controller model.

Warm regards,

Gyan

On Sun, Dec 15, 2019 at 2:59 AM Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com> wrote:
Jeff

With SR-MPLS with SR-TR le= t=E2=80=99s say if you use cSPF snd don=E2=80=99t have an ERO strict explic= it path defined or is a loose path, then the for the cSPF would the transpo= rt labels be 1.=C2=A0 For loose would also be 1 also.=C2=A0 If the path wer= e explicit defined to egress PE and was 7 hops from ingress to egress then = transport would be 6.=C2=A0 And if L3 vpn service sid was signaled that wou= ld be 1 vpn label. =C2=A0

Let me know if I have that right. =C2=A0

In Nats scenario for IPv6 he has 3 vpnv6 labels. =C2=A0<= /div>

Why is that? =C2=A0

With both SR-MPLS and SRv6 t= he L3 vpn AFI/SAFI MBGP services overlay single label sits on top off SR as= if does today with MPLS so why 3 vpn labels.

So with this draft with BGP-LS and BMI-MSD you can fl= ood into the IGP the SID depth so all the nodes along the SR-TE path don=E2= =80=99t go over the maximum which would result in an error.

If you set your MTU high enough in th= e core like 9216, does that overcome the SID depth issues with SR-TE?
=

Warm=C2=A0regards,

Gyan

On Sat, Dec 14, 2019 at 2= :43 AM Nat Kao <lekao@pyxisworks.org> wrote:
Hi, Jeff.

Thanks for the = BMI-MSD reference. If I understand correctly:

=
BMI-MSD =3D Transport Label Depth + Service Label Depth
Only= former can be utilized by SR-TE policies.

C= urrently do we have any method to determine the composition of BMI?
We need to know the transport label depth when doing ser= vice route per-destination steering.

This problem arises when trying to steer a plain IPv4 route and a = VPN service route into the same SR-TE policy that exceeds the transport lab= el depth of the service route. I'm trying to figure out the standard be= havior in this case since the headend we use currently produces some intere= sting results.

Regards,
Nat.

On Sat, Dec 14, 2019 at 2:42 AM Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com> wrot= e:
Hi Nat,

Currently defined MSD types are:=C2=A0
1: BMI
2: ERLD

Specifically to BMI:
Base MPLS Imposition MSD (BMI-MSD) signals the total numb= er of MPLS=C2=A0labels that can be imposed, including all service/tra= nsport/special=C2=A0labels.
The answer to your question is 6

Cheers,
Jeff
On Dec 13, 2019, 3:42 AM -0800, Nat Kao &= lt;lekao@pyxiswor= ks.org>, wrote:
Hello, SPRING WG.

How do we deal with an SR-TE policy headend with different MSDs for differe= nt types of traffic?
For example, a headend H can impose:
6 transport labels for plain IPv4 packets;
5 transport labels + 1 IPv6 ExpNull label for plain IPv6 packets;
3 transport labels=C2=A0+ 3 VPN=C2=A0 labels for VPN packets.

a) For a plain IPv4 route R4 and a VPN route Rv both steered into the SR-TE= policy P1 with SID list <S1, S2, S3, S4, S5>, what will H perform in= this situation?
b) What is the MSD of H? 6, 5 or 3?

Thanks,
Nat.
_______________________________________________
spring mailing list
spring@ietf.org = https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
_______________________________________________
spring mailing list
spring@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
--

Gyan S. Mishra

IT Network Engineering & Technology=C2=A0=

Verizon Communications=C2=A0Inc. (VZ)=

13101 Columbia Pike FDC1 3rd Floor

=

Silver Spring, MD 20904

United States<= span style=3D"color:rgb(80,0,80);background-image:initial;background-positi= on:initial;background-repeat:initial">

Phone:=C2=A0301 502-1347

Email:=C2=A0gyan.s.mishra@verizon.= com

www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies-co= nsultant


--
<= div dir=3D"ltr">

Gyan S. Mishra

IT Networ= k Engineering & Technology=C2=A0=

Verizon Communications=C2=A0Inc. (VZ)=

13101 Columbia Pike FDC1 3rd Floor

=

Silver Spring, MD 20904

United States<= span style=3D"color:rgb(80,0,80);background-image:initial;background-positi= on:initial;background-repeat:initial">

Phone:=C2=A0301 502-1347

Email:=C2=A0gyan.s.mishra@verizon.= com

www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies-co= nsultant


--0000000000009f2a4c0599b98c4e-- From nobody Sun Dec 15 09:10:32 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9766E120048 for ; Sun, 15 Dec 2019 09:10:30 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.997 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.997 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GeO1akAfNBX9 for ; Sun, 15 Dec 2019 09:10:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-io1-xd2a.google.com (mail-io1-xd2a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d2a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DC4C312001A for ; Sun, 15 Dec 2019 09:10:27 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-io1-xd2a.google.com with SMTP id a22so4540541ios.3 for ; Sun, 15 Dec 2019 09:10:27 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=uWjjym6ZX5IQEkrqldEHGMnQL5pHSpnYjoSs4K3Ohy4=; b=OVeIu+fRqY+PpdqhsVvOmxkW0TbVFqD3aCFejdJ1utDcW9ypth7KQ59IjVCwweIcRl TqxbIlrbUbZ9oJtgbLwuho/+4jxHfWHniXCF6q5iRLO//XR6BkTUNCOhm5WLppEfpQSf XyLZhIRpOslnP1n56OKofLeKN8zoswaULLu+5VdYSQ7j0BkVqbhjtnN24Q+73V/ryPHs xvJM5q+k7VIigpiZ7C/2hdSPAsBblwTXJE/ORfqa285P+CHaWELhNeCJietRZ9zbhBFk sdlh/+6Yoi5nfq87Vew5JmWp0bNXJsRuXfS3VxoqN00ET+U0Ert97b3APCm7BAvCkBNc 57jA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=uWjjym6ZX5IQEkrqldEHGMnQL5pHSpnYjoSs4K3Ohy4=; b=VVjomg1GaLEh6widpdvaDlgVZsmuhliGpvvL4gpgTzz0SNwZkx4f8ZVABdrlzK33/H py1f2m/LhaOZodFd7QVi6xNcqb0Pjax9xKnBzYp1LyJwoTZE85M9Bg/etHExAnh6JceI t+W81QC516VFhibc4t+KIPuZgkDIDPdNMtP8/nS15ntcOZmDuC4UOZ0mOWKgrF9NznVS Av8o0LwUFBr6ojz2+PYVE3ir4GGOEnGETOci5EbCTdlpsb+AnslkWCRs1iOIH7TovPC2 36FDz3Cr1D+5oKNFQzIvEvVrEO/ssHcIO1Jofh8tAzLMRwyXF+zSCj+3BVF6U4HMBj1x m/qQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWqMg8pBD0bTMNzYrA001dIeUeuwb27f84Jc8QFg3i42901cK+d 6x/6vrhEpmujNaZXmJfeoB/xszVTWfRKBzTM6D0= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyLct+2aWk+DfuzvolXeFLTWUxGd4bEt4HEaZRsCq+jI1Gatr33vFxT07i9f8khIQpKotySVeHnTEGzQLm0vm4= X-Received: by 2002:a02:a38a:: with SMTP id y10mr8763579jak.55.1576429826914; Sun, 15 Dec 2019 09:10:26 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <0f00cda3-480c-f568-e4c2-a591c7fd260d@joelhalpern.com> In-Reply-To: <0f00cda3-480c-f568-e4c2-a591c7fd260d@joelhalpern.com> From: Gyan Mishra Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2019 12:10:16 -0500 Message-ID: To: "Joel M. Halpern" Cc: "Voyer, Daniel" , "spring@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000d8beed0599c12bfe" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Is srv6 PSP a good idea X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2019 17:10:31 -0000 --000000000000d8beed0599c12bfe Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dan The concept of PHP =E2=80=9CPenultimate Hop POP=E2=80=9D and UHP =E2=80=9CU= ltimate Hop POP=E2=80=9D have historical meaning as well as real consequences as far as a packet walk through an mpls network. >From a historical perspective which is really the correct way to look at PHP in the MPLS world was designed by the developers of MPLS 25+ years ago for the following reason. Back then, asic chipsets used by the MPLS forwarding plane did not have the horsepower to pop the topmost ldp label along with all services bottom of stack labels. For that reason alone the MPLS developers back then came up with the PHP concept. In essence what that did was allow the ldp topmost label to be popped one hop prior to the egress LSR PE node on the egress P node. What that did was offload the entire burden of popping the entire label stack done on the PE ultimate hop router to now be offset by one less label to pop. Back then that was a big deal and important for processing label switched packets at high rates. PSP became the default standard across all vendors and platforms =E2=80=9Ci= mplicit null label reserved value 3=E2=80=9D There was a double edged sword that came about from the PSP process. As mpls became mainstream so did customer SLA and so end to end QOS became the forefront importance to all service providers. The major problem in the MPLS world that came about with PSP is that when you pop that label at the egress PE 1 hop before the ultimate hop. What that did is the PE-P link the packet is forwarded without the ldp topmost label intact preserved which contained the EXP bits for end to end QOS scheduling. A workaround fix to this issue was to institute a new feature called =E2=80=9Cexplicit null reserved label value 0=E2=80=9D. This was implement= ed using a QOS policy called =E2=80=9Cpipe mode=E2=80=9D that allowed the topmost label to= now be preserved and =E2=80=9Cultimate=E2=80=9D hopped which we today call UHP =E2= =80=9CUltimate Hop POP=E2=80=9D. Another industry development that came about to get around the complexity of pipe mode QOS policy to UHP was a enlightening concept but unfortunately did not work for all use cases. So the new feature that came about was the ability to schedule outbound on each node in the operator MPLS core on both on the topmost label EXP bits of the topmost was present as well as on the preserved inner header dscp this dual PHB scheduling capability based on which outer header existed or didn=E2=80=99t exist. This worked for enterprises where you have trust relationship with your customer or are a customer of yourself. In the service provide area UHP ultimate hopping to preserve the ldp topmost label became the general rule of thumb golden standard to meet customer SLAs of end to end QOS. Coming back full circle to SRV6. The concept of PSP was added to SRv6 I believe to provide parity for operators learning curve as well as similarities as SRV6 would be the replacement to mpls. Based on what I have stated above providing history of PHP and how it came about ; and now adding this truly legacy function to a NG protocol such as SRv6 to me does not make sense. I don=E2=80=99t see the necessity to add just for the sake of adding or pro= viding parity to a soon to be legacy protocol. I would like to see some technical justification as to why PSP is necessary with our modern day routers to this in the PR spec. Warm regards, Gyan On Fri, Dec 13, 2019 at 5:25 PM Joel M. Halpern wrote= : > That is an udnerstandable argument, ... except: > > It does not acknowledge that there is a cost for this capability, or > discuss the tradeoff. PSP clearly has a cost. > > Also, that does not match my reading of the definition of the SR domain. > In fact, it becomes very confusing as to whether the PE is or is not > part of the SR domain, since there is nothing in that scenario that > requires any control participation from the egress PE. Many of the > SRv6 arguments rely heavily on the notion of domain. Blurring that > boundary makes things quite confusing. For example, if the egress PE > does not understand SRv6 data plane behavior, can it enforce teh > requisite boundary properties? > > Yours, > Joel > > On 12/13/2019 5:14 PM, Voyer, Daniel wrote: > > I agree 100% with Jingrong, > > > > PSP allows us to bring SRv6 to legacy PE devices that are not capable o= f > processing the SRH in the dataplane, but are capable of supporting SRv6 i= n > the control plane. > > > > See this example: > > I am streaming traffic from a server to a customer; > > The ingress PE (near the server) encapsulates the packet and adds an SR= H > with a low-latency list of segments; > > The penultimate node in the SRH executes PSP; > > The egress PE (near the customer) decapsulates the IPv6 header and > forwards the inner packet to the customer. > > > > We can include SLA unidirectionally from the server to the customer eve= n > though that the egress PE has a legacy ASIC. Legacy equipment are a reali= ty > and are not easy to replace, hence interoperability with brownfield is ke= y > for any innovative approach. > > > > dan > > > > =EF=BB=BFOn 2019-12-10, 11:15 PM, "spring on behalf of Xiejingrong (Jin= grong)" < > spring-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of xiejingrong@huawei.com> wrote: > > > > I think it's a good idea. > > Nothing new, but benefits that people have already said seems > notable to me. > > > > (1) reduce the load of final destination. This benefit can be > notable for the following sub reasons. > > (1.1) final destination tends to have heavy load. It need to handl= e > all the EHs and do the delivery/demultiplex the packet to the right overl= ay > service. > > (1.2) example 1, the final destination may need to handle the DOH > after the RH. > > (1.3) example 2, the final destination may need to do the assembly > of fragmented packets. > > (1.4) example 3, the final destination may need to do AH/ESP after > the Fragmentation Header. > > (1.5) example 4, the final destination may need to deliver the > packet to the right overlay service. > > > > (2) support the incremental deployment when final destination(s) d= o > not process/recognize SRH. This benefit can be notable for the following > sub reasons. > > (2.1) A core router may (fan-out) connected with a big number of > low-end routers that do not support SRH but support > tunnel-end/service-demultiplex function of SRv6. > > > > Thanks > > Jingrong > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: spring [mailto:spring-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Joel M. > Halpern > > Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2019 10:55 AM > > To: spring@ietf.org > > Subject: [spring] Is srv6 PSP a good idea > > > > For purposes of this thread, even if you think PSP violates RFC > 8200, let us assume that it is legal. > > > > As I understand it, the PSP situation is: > > o the packet arrives at the place (let's not argue about whether > SIDs are locators) identified by the SID in the destination address field= o > that SID is the next to last SID in the SID list o that sid is marked as = / > known to be PSP o at the intended place in the processing pseudocode, the > last (first) entry in the SRH is copied into the destination IPv6 address > field of the packet > > -> The SRH being used is then removed from the packet. > > > > In order to evaluate whether this is a good idea, we have to have > some idea of the benefit. It may be that I am missing some of the benefi= t, > and I would appreciate clarification. > > As far as I can tell, the benefit of this removal is that in > exchange for this node doing the work of removing the SRH, the final node > in the SRH does not have to process the SRH at all, as it has been remove= d. > > > > I have trouble seeing how that work tradeoff can be beneficial. > > Removing bytes from the middle of a packet is a complex operation. > > Doing so in Silicon (we expect this to be done in the fast path of > significant forwarders as I understand it) requires very special > provision. Even in software, removing bytes from the middle of a packet > requires somewhere between some and a lot of extra work. It is distinctl= y > NOT free. > > > > In contrast, we have assumed that the work of processing SRH itsel= f > is tractable, since otherwise all of SRv6 would be problematic. So why i= s > this necessary. > > > > Yours, > > Joel > > > > PS: Note that both the MPLS case and the encapsulation case are > very different in that the material being removed is at the front of the = IP > packet. Pop or prepend are MUCH easier than middle-removal (or > middle-insertion). > > > > _______________________________________________ > > spring mailing list > > spring@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > > > > _______________________________________________ > > spring mailing list > > spring@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- > > External Email: Please use caution when opening links and > attachments / Courriel externe: Soyez prudent avec les liens et documents > joints > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > spring mailing list > > spring@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > > > > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > --=20 Gyan S. Mishra IT Network Engineering & Technology Verizon Communications Inc. (VZ) 13101 Columbia Pike FDC1 3rd Floor Silver Spring, MD 20904 United States Phone: 301 502-1347 Email: gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies-consultant --000000000000d8beed0599c12bfe Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dan

The concept of PHP =E2=80=9CPenultimate Hop POP=E2=80=9D and UH= P =E2=80=9CUltimate Hop POP=E2=80=9D have historical meaning as well as rea= l consequences as far as a packet walk through an mpls network.

=
From a historical perspective which is really the correct way to lo= ok at PHP in the MPLS world was designed by the developers of MPLS 25+ year= s ago for the following reason.=C2=A0 Back then, =C2=A0asic chipsets used b= y the MPLS forwarding plane did not have the horsepower to pop the topmost = ldp label along with all services bottom of stack labels.

=
For that reason alone the MPLS developers back then came up with the PHP = concept.

In essence what that did was allow the ldp topm= ost label to be popped one hop prior to the egress LSR PE node on the egres= s P node.

What that did was offload the entire burden of= popping the entire label stack done on the PE ultimate hop router to now b= e offset by one less label to pop.=C2=A0 Back then that was a big deal and = important for processing label switched packets at high rates.

<= /div>
PSP became the default standard across all vendors and platforms =E2= =80=9Cimplicit null label reserved value 3=E2=80=9D

Ther= e was a double edged sword that came about from the PSP process.
As mpls became mainstream so did customer SLA and so end to end QO= S became the forefront importance to all service providers. =C2=A0
<= br>
The major problem in the MPLS world that came about with PSP is = that when you pop that label at the egress PE 1 hop before the ultimate hop= .=C2=A0 What that did is the PE-P link the packet is forwarded without the = ldp topmost label intact preserved which contained the EXP bits for end to = end QOS scheduling.

A workaround fix to this issue was t= o institute a new feature called =E2=80=9Cexplicit null reserved label valu= e 0=E2=80=9D.=C2=A0 This was implemented using a QOS policy called =E2=80= =9Cpipe mode=E2=80=9D that allowed the topmost label to now be preserved an= d =E2=80=9Cultimate=E2=80=9D hopped which we today call UHP =E2=80=9CUltima= te Hop POP=E2=80=9D.

Another industry development that c= ame about to get around the complexity of pipe mode QOS policy to UHP was a= enlightening concept but unfortunately did not work for all use cases.

So the new feature that came about was the ability to sched= ule outbound on each node in the operator MPLS core on both =C2=A0on the to= pmost label EXP bits of the topmost was present as well as on the preserved= =C2=A0inner header dscp this dual PHB scheduling capability based on which= outer header existed or didn=E2=80=99t exist. =C2=A0 This worked for enter= prises where you have trust relationship with your customer or are a custom= er of yourself.

In the service provide area UHP ultimate= hopping to preserve the ldp topmost label became the general rule of thumb= golden standard to meet customer SLAs of end to end QOS.

=
Coming back full circle to SRV6.

The concept of PSP wa= s added to SRv6 I believe to provide parity for operators learning curve as= well as similarities as SRV6 would be the replacement to mpls.

=
Based on what I have stated above providing history of PHP and how = it came about ; and now adding this truly legacy function to a NG protocol = such as SRv6 to me does not make sense.

I don=E2=80=99t = see the necessity to add just for the sake of adding or providing parity to= a soon to be legacy protocol.

I would like to see some = technical justification as to why PSP is necessary with our modern day rout= ers to this in the PR spec.

Warm regards,

Gyan

=
On Fri, Dec 13, 2019 at 5:25 PM Joel = M. Halpern <jmh= @joelhalpern.com> wrote:
Tha= t is an udnerstandable argument, ... except:

It does not acknowledge that there is a cost for this capability, or
discuss the tradeoff.=C2=A0 PSP clearly has a cost.

Also, that does not match my reading of the definition of the SR domain. =C2=A0 In fact, it becomes very confusing as to whether the PE is or is not=
part of the SR domain, since there is nothing in that scenario that
requires any control participation from the egress PE.=C2=A0 =C2=A0Many of = the
SRv6 arguments rely heavily on the notion of domain.=C2=A0 =C2=A0Blurring t= hat
boundary makes things quite confusing.=C2=A0 For example, if the egress PE =
does not understand SRv6 data plane behavior, can it enforce teh
requisite boundary properties?

Yours,
Joel

On 12/13/2019 5:14 PM, Voyer, Daniel wrote:
> I agree 100% with Jingrong,
>
> PSP allows us to bring SRv6 to legacy PE devices that are not capable = of processing the SRH in the dataplane, but are capable of supporting SRv6 = in the control plane.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0
> See this example:
> I am streaming traffic from a server to a customer;
> The ingress PE (near the server) encapsulates the packet and adds an S= RH with a low-latency list of segments;
> The penultimate node in the SRH executes PSP;
> The egress PE (near the customer) decapsulates the IPv6 header and for= wards the inner packet to the customer.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0
> We can include SLA unidirectionally from the server to the customer ev= en though that the egress PE has a legacy ASIC. Legacy equipment are a real= ity and are not easy to replace, hence interoperability with brownfield is = key for any innovative approach.
>
> dan
>
> =EF=BB=BFOn 2019-12-10, 11:15 PM, "spring on behalf of Xiejingron= g (Jingrong)" <spring-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of xiejingrong@huawei.com> wrote: >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 I think it's a good idea.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Nothing new, but benefits that people have already= said seems notable to me.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 (1) reduce the load of final destination. This ben= efit can be notable for the following sub reasons.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 (1.1) final destination tends to have heavy load. = It need to handle all the EHs and do the delivery/demultiplex the packet to= the right overlay service.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 (1.2) example 1, the final destination may need to= handle the DOH after the RH.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 (1.3) example 2, the final destination may need to= do the assembly of fragmented packets.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 (1.4) example 3, the final destination may need to= do AH/ESP after the Fragmentation Header.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 (1.5) example 4, the final destination may need to= deliver the packet to the right overlay service.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 (2) support the incremental deployment when final = destination(s) do not process/recognize SRH. This benefit can be notable fo= r the following sub reasons.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 (2.1) A core router may (fan-out) connected with a= big number of low-end routers that do not support SRH but support tunnel-e= nd/service-demultiplex function of SRv6.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Thanks
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Jingrong
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 -----Original Message-----
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 From: spring [mailto:spring-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of J= oel M. Halpern
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2019 10:55 AM
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 To: spring@ietf.org
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Subject: [spring] Is srv6 PSP a good idea
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 For purposes of this thread, even if you think PSP= violates RFC 8200, let us assume that it is legal.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 As I understand it, the PSP situation is:
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 o the packet arrives at the place (let's not a= rgue about whether SIDs are locators) identified by the SID in the destinat= ion address field o that SID is the next to last SID in the SID list o that= sid is marked as / known to be PSP o at the intended place in the processi= ng pseudocode, the last (first) entry in the SRH is copied into the destina= tion IPv6 address field of the packet
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 -> The SRH being used is then removed from the = packet.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 In order to evaluate whether this is a good idea, = we have to have some idea of the benefit.=C2=A0 It may be that I am missing= some of the benefit, and I would appreciate clarification.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 As far as I can tell, the benefit of this removal = is that in exchange for this node doing the work of removing the SRH, the f= inal node in the SRH does not have to process the SRH at all, as it has bee= n removed.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 I have trouble seeing how that work tradeoff can b= e beneficial.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Removing bytes from the middle of a packet is a co= mplex operation.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Doing so in Silicon (we expect this to be done in = the fast path of significant forwarders as I understand it) requires very s= pecial provision.=C2=A0 Even in software, removing bytes from the middle of= a packet requires somewhere between some and a lot of extra work.=C2=A0 It= is distinctly NOT free.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 In contrast, we have assumed that the work of proc= essing SRH itself is tractable, since otherwise all of SRv6 would be proble= matic.=C2=A0 So why is this necessary.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Yours,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Joel
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 PS: Note that both the MPLS case and the encapsula= tion case are very different in that the material being removed is at the f= ront of the IP packet.=C2=A0 Pop or prepend are MUCH easier than middle-rem= oval (or middle-insertion).
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 _______________________________________________ >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 spring mailing list
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 spring@ietf.org
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://www.ietf.org/mailman/li= stinfo/spring
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 _______________________________________________ >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 spring mailing list
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 spring@ietf.org
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://www.ietf.org/mailman/li= stinfo/spring
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 --------------------------------------------------= ----------------------------
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 External Email: Please use caution when opening li= nks and attachments / Courriel externe: Soyez prudent avec les liens et doc= uments joints
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0
>
> _______________________________________________
> spring mailing list
> spring@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring >

_______________________________________________
spring mailing list
spring@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
--

Gyan S. Mishra

IT Network Engineering & Technology=C2=A0=

Verizon Communications=C2=A0Inc. (VZ)=

13101 Columbia Pike FDC1 3rd Floor

=

Silver Spring, MD 20904

United States<= span style=3D"color:rgb(80,0,80);background-image:initial;background-positi= on:initial;background-repeat:initial">

Phone:=C2=A0301 502-1347

Email:=C2=A0gyan.s.mishra@verizon.= com

www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies-co= nsultant


--000000000000d8beed0599c12bfe-- From nobody Sun Dec 15 12:00:29 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05DF212011D for ; Sun, 15 Dec 2019 12:00:24 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=raszuk.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qmOKVD76cxcu for ; Sun, 15 Dec 2019 12:00:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qk1-x732.google.com (mail-qk1-x732.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::732]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B2604120122 for ; Sun, 15 Dec 2019 12:00:18 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qk1-x732.google.com with SMTP id t129so1933617qke.10 for ; Sun, 15 Dec 2019 12:00:18 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=raszuk.net; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=eUtRfRJNtDH1xifvNdM6RbaJAAUFGRlxNRwqavu5fL4=; b=XnKpMg8Khxu98ZZLlRovmY9JDQMnIbNTV+OGdhrzGPllELXfwi5V0AlzUrEsafW5pp ptW+jqpoiiA49xYM4lu3atgiJhUx0AdSZ78sDuz0J6j8dYZZl2KRi9ktcWtu1uDDXwwA EqGgcCRk7+D48nc1UirT5fG/RfFhW1sa/+dwI9reGdn6DGC3V0VvrcIRJazrfLdQ56SF AJZhHURPxTfugx+stAocXFth61LIOFsNyXZ3BZOB9n6R+BNp1xteT8biHmpW6meQZVzI 5gdaOrZeEYtgYTX/tpju6+stE9hIywXQDDnjTz1HqaEUAxTkMxlJ26sLWzLylBmJJHUL 3nTA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=eUtRfRJNtDH1xifvNdM6RbaJAAUFGRlxNRwqavu5fL4=; b=YFe7HunVZDIJtdnNcFI/PflKVo3X/fUtF46WfHh8ssEevzl5iBS/1EkO0zakmvyKWg 0BkTPmk94S8KqqbLP1sV9wmp5GEzavS5is625qcyrVtGQdTFdoD5tdp+W5zS7XuRuzCs m0X4D86rjeqcMci8ANCVONOl3a+9uUnz6zKu5rqfu1qAduIJ3dQ9HC3TnCsUgOfSPObq Pz0Qaq9q6n3ZMoWeipWOT+wvs1SeDcecdVfz8s8DwOeY7pLQOcRJ5hlQMMPU3vMRpBQH kyYztrtF2bFUe8V0gNv3f7f437HQDvn4R8amg6Aw+ldMbcluaGJ1ny0K18UDCLXXiltW LT/Q== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWvO6J1Kr68CAz18j1E4MG5ksa/8kZMPNdlroRFxh7ibZAt7EgT gJmKN9FqCmwwsFuUwIP+s5WM9jITaVWaL33KMIroig== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqz73daSrKSNI57YD+rHm8dvKm+YrJRNVwoA0Gj80ZjdrH6LKjFhVWHY1zFGczZ26yhkXZokXsNUEqama8zVF0E= X-Received: by 2002:ae9:ed53:: with SMTP id c80mr22895913qkg.445.1576440017565; Sun, 15 Dec 2019 12:00:17 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <0f00cda3-480c-f568-e4c2-a591c7fd260d@joelhalpern.com> In-Reply-To: From: Robert Raszuk Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2019 21:00:08 +0100 Message-ID: To: Gyan Mishra Cc: "spring@ietf.org" , "Voyer, Daniel" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000041cf1d0599c38bc3" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Is srv6 PSP a good idea X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2019 20:00:27 -0000 --00000000000041cf1d0599c38bc3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Gyan, Do you think that sending the exact same email twice by copy and paste makes it any more valid ? All, To all opponents of PHP - let me refresh you with a bit of SR history. SR assumed that most of the operational behaviour will be SID type agnostic. Regardless if I use MPLS SID or IPv6 SID there should be no difference in the operational model. SR PHP is not being defined in NP draft. It has been there since day one and I suppose it suddenly become the target of attacks perhaps due to no better one available :). That's actually pretty good prove in itself that document is really solid and ready to progress. Where were you all when IGP extensions were defined ? Take RFC8667 - it passed all IETF standards process - it defines Prefix-SID TLV and P-flag there. It defines how to use PHP with mapping server in place. NP draft does actually a courtesy to the implementors to clearly define expected behaviours when using SR-v6. The PHP can be removed from it making it less complete, but that will in no way change anything to the rest of the SR specs in terms of PHP with both MPLS and IPv6. Last - think of using SRv6 path steering for IoT devices. Every operation you save there is a huge gain. Segment endpoints may not always be routers and switches and may not even have slow path processing option. Best, Robert. On Sun, Dec 15, 2019 at 6:10 PM Gyan Mishra wrote: > > Dan > > The concept of PHP =E2=80=9CPenultimate Hop POP=E2=80=9D and UHP =E2=80= =9CUltimate Hop POP=E2=80=9D have > historical meaning as well as real consequences as far as a packet walk > through an mpls network. > > From a historical perspective which is really the correct way to look at > PHP in the MPLS world was designed by the developers of MPLS 25+ years ag= o > for the following reason. Back then, asic chipsets used by the MPLS > forwarding plane did not have the horsepower to pop the topmost ldp label > along with all services bottom of stack labels. > > For that reason alone the MPLS developers back then came up with the PHP > concept. > > In essence what that did was allow the ldp topmost label to be popped one > hop prior to the egress LSR PE node on the egress P node. > > What that did was offload the entire burden of popping the entire label > stack done on the PE ultimate hop router to now be offset by one less lab= el > to pop. Back then that was a big deal and important for processing label > switched packets at high rates. > > PSP became the default standard across all vendors and platforms =E2=80= =9Cimplicit > null label reserved value 3=E2=80=9D > > There was a double edged sword that came about from the PSP process. > > As mpls became mainstream so did customer SLA and so end to end QOS becam= e > the forefront importance to all service providers. > > The major problem in the MPLS world that came about with PSP is that when > you pop that label at the egress PE 1 hop before the ultimate hop.. What > that did is the PE-P link the packet is forwarded without the ldp topmost > label intact preserved which contained the EXP bits for end to end QOS > scheduling. > > A workaround fix to this issue was to institute a new feature called > =E2=80=9Cexplicit null reserved label value 0=E2=80=9D. This was impleme= nted using a QOS > policy called =E2=80=9Cpipe mode=E2=80=9D that allowed the topmost label = to now be > preserved and =E2=80=9Cultimate=E2=80=9D hopped which we today call UHP = =E2=80=9CUltimate Hop POP=E2=80=9D. > > Another industry development that came about to get around the complexity > of pipe mode QOS policy to UHP was a enlightening concept but unfortunate= ly > did not work for all use cases. > > So the new feature that came about was the ability to schedule outbound o= n > each node in the operator MPLS core on both on the topmost label EXP bit= s > of the topmost was present as well as on the preserved inner header dscp > this dual PHB scheduling capability based on which outer header existed o= r > didn=E2=80=99t exist. This worked for enterprises where you have trust > relationship with your customer or are a customer of yourself. > > In the service provide area UHP ultimate hopping to preserve the ldp > topmost label became the general rule of thumb golden standard to meet > customer SLAs of end to end QOS. > > Coming back full circle to SRV6. > > The concept of PSP was added to SRv6 I believe to provide parity for > operators learning curve as well as similarities as SRV6 would be the > replacement to mpls. > > Based on what I have stated above providing history of PHP and how it cam= e > about ; and now adding this truly legacy function to a NG protocol such a= s > SRv6 to me does not make sense. > > I don=E2=80=99t see the necessity to add just for the sake of adding or p= roviding > parity to a soon to be legacy protocol. > > I would like to see some technical justification as to why PSP is > necessary with our modern day routers to this in the PR spec. > > Warm regards, > > Gyan > > On Fri, Dec 13, 2019 at 5:25 PM Joel M. Halpern > wrote: > >> That is an udnerstandable argument, ... except: >> >> It does not acknowledge that there is a cost for this capability, or >> discuss the tradeoff. PSP clearly has a cost. >> >> Also, that does not match my reading of the definition of the SR domain. >> In fact, it becomes very confusing as to whether the PE is or is not >> part of the SR domain, since there is nothing in that scenario that >> requires any control participation from the egress PE. Many of the >> SRv6 arguments rely heavily on the notion of domain. Blurring that >> boundary makes things quite confusing. For example, if the egress PE >> does not understand SRv6 data plane behavior, can it enforce teh >> requisite boundary properties? >> >> Yours, >> Joel >> >> On 12/13/2019 5:14 PM, Voyer, Daniel wrote: >> > I agree 100% with Jingrong, >> > >> > PSP allows us to bring SRv6 to legacy PE devices that are not capable >> of processing the SRH in the dataplane, but are capable of supporting SR= v6 >> in the control plane. >> > >> > See this example: >> > I am streaming traffic from a server to a customer; >> > The ingress PE (near the server) encapsulates the packet and adds an >> SRH with a low-latency list of segments; >> > The penultimate node in the SRH executes PSP; >> > The egress PE (near the customer) decapsulates the IPv6 header and >> forwards the inner packet to the customer. >> > >> > We can include SLA unidirectionally from the server to the customer >> even though that the egress PE has a legacy ASIC. Legacy equipment are a >> reality and are not easy to replace, hence interoperability with brownfi= eld >> is key for any innovative approach. >> > >> > dan >> > >> > =EF=BB=BFOn 2019-12-10, 11:15 PM, "spring on behalf of Xiejingrong (Ji= ngrong)" < >> spring-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of xiejingrong@huawei.com> wrote: >> > >> > I think it's a good idea. >> > Nothing new, but benefits that people have already said seems >> notable to me. >> > >> > (1) reduce the load of final destination. This benefit can be >> notable for the following sub reasons. >> > (1.1) final destination tends to have heavy load. It need to >> handle all the EHs and do the delivery/demultiplex the packet to the rig= ht >> overlay service. >> > (1.2) example 1, the final destination may need to handle the DOH >> after the RH. >> > (1.3) example 2, the final destination may need to do the assembl= y >> of fragmented packets. >> > (1.4) example 3, the final destination may need to do AH/ESP afte= r >> the Fragmentation Header. >> > (1.5) example 4, the final destination may need to deliver the >> packet to the right overlay service. >> > >> > (2) support the incremental deployment when final destination(s) >> do not process/recognize SRH. This benefit can be notable for the follow= ing >> sub reasons. >> > (2.1) A core router may (fan-out) connected with a big number of >> low-end routers that do not support SRH but support >> tunnel-end/service-demultiplex function of SRv6. >> > >> > Thanks >> > Jingrong >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: spring [mailto:spring-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Joel >> M. Halpern >> > Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2019 10:55 AM >> > To: spring@ietf.org >> > Subject: [spring] Is srv6 PSP a good idea >> > >> > For purposes of this thread, even if you think PSP violates RFC >> 8200, let us assume that it is legal. >> > >> > As I understand it, the PSP situation is: >> > o the packet arrives at the place (let's not argue about whether >> SIDs are locators) identified by the SID in the destination address fiel= d o >> that SID is the next to last SID in the SID list o that sid is marked as= / >> known to be PSP o at the intended place in the processing pseudocode, th= e >> last (first) entry in the SRH is copied into the destination IPv6 addres= s >> field of the packet >> > -> The SRH being used is then removed from the packet. >> > >> > In order to evaluate whether this is a good idea, we have to have >> some idea of the benefit. It may be that I am missing some of the benef= it, >> and I would appreciate clarification. >> > As far as I can tell, the benefit of this removal is that in >> exchange for this node doing the work of removing the SRH, the final nod= e >> in the SRH does not have to process the SRH at all, as it has been remov= ed. >> > >> > I have trouble seeing how that work tradeoff can be beneficial. >> > Removing bytes from the middle of a packet is a complex operation= . >> > Doing so in Silicon (we expect this to be done in the fast path o= f >> significant forwarders as I understand it) requires very special >> provision. Even in software, removing bytes from the middle of a packet >> requires somewhere between some and a lot of extra work. It is distinct= ly >> NOT free. >> > >> > In contrast, we have assumed that the work of processing SRH >> itself is tractable, since otherwise all of SRv6 would be problematic. = So >> why is this necessary. >> > >> > Yours, >> > Joel >> > >> > PS: Note that both the MPLS case and the encapsulation case are >> very different in that the material being removed is at the front of the= IP >> packet. Pop or prepend are MUCH easier than middle-removal (or >> middle-insertion). >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > spring mailing list >> > spring@ietf.org >> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > spring mailing list >> > spring@ietf.org >> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring >> > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------ >> > External Email: Please use caution when opening links and >> attachments / Courriel externe: Soyez prudent avec les liens et document= s >> joints >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > spring mailing list >> > spring@ietf.org >> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> spring mailing list >> spring@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring >> > -- > > Gyan S. Mishra > > IT Network Engineering & Technology > > Verizon Communications Inc. (VZ) > > 13101 Columbia Pike FDC1 3rd Floor > > Silver Spring, MD 20904 > > United States > > Phone: 301 502-1347 > > Email: gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com > > www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies-consultant > > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > --00000000000041cf1d0599c38bc3 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Gyan,

Do you think that sending the exa= ct same email twice by copy and paste makes it any more valid ?=C2=A0
=

All,

To all opponents of PHP -= let me refresh=C2=A0you with a bit of SR history. SR assumed that most of = the operational behaviour=C2=A0will be SID type agnostic. Regardless if I u= se MPLS SID or IPv6 SID there should be no difference=C2=A0in the operation= al model.=C2=A0

SR PHP is not being defined in NP = draft. It has been there since day one and I suppose it suddenly become the= target of attacks perhaps due to no better one available :). That's ac= tually pretty good prove in itself that document is really solid and ready = to progress.=C2=A0

Where were you all when IGP ext= ensions were defined ? Take RFC8667 - it passed all IETF standards process = - it defines Prefix-SID TLV and P-flag there. It defines how to use PHP wit= h mapping server in place.=C2=A0

NP dra= ft does actually a courtesy=C2=A0to the implementors=C2=A0to clearly define= expected behaviours when using SR-v6. The PHP can be removed from=C2=A0it = making it less complete, but that will=C2=A0in no way change anything to th= e rest of the SR specs in terms of PHP with both MPLS and IPv6.=C2=A0
=

Last - think of using SRv6 path steering for IoT device= s. Every operation you save there is a huge gain. Segment endpoints may not= always be routers and switches and may not even have slow path processing = option.=C2=A0

Best,
Robert.












On Sun, Dec 15, 2019= at 6:10 PM Gyan Mishra <hayabu= sagsm@gmail.com> wrote:

Dan

=
The concept of PHP =E2=80=9CPenultimate Hop POP= =E2=80=9D and UHP =E2=80=9CUltimate Hop POP=E2=80=9D have historical meanin= g as well as real consequences as far as a packet walk through an mpls netw= ork.

From a historical perspective which is really the c= orrect way to look at PHP in the MPLS world was designed by the developers = of MPLS 25+ years ago for the following reason.=C2=A0 Back then, =C2=A0asic= chipsets used by the MPLS forwarding plane did not have the horsepower to = pop the topmost ldp label along with all services bottom of stack labels.

For that reason alone the MPLS developers back then came = up with the PHP concept.

In essence what that did was al= low the ldp topmost label to be popped one hop prior to the egress LSR PE n= ode on the egress P node.

What that did was offload the = entire burden of popping the entire label stack done on the PE ultimate hop= router to now be offset by one less label to pop.=C2=A0 Back then that was= a big deal and important for processing label switched packets at high rat= es.

PSP became the default standard across all vendors a= nd platforms =E2=80=9Cimplicit null label reserved value 3=E2=80=9D
=
There was a double edged sword that came about from the PSP pro= cess.

As mpls became mainstream so did customer SLA and = so end to end QOS became the forefront importance to all service providers.= =C2=A0

The major problem in the MPLS world that came ab= out with PSP is that when you pop that label at the egress PE 1 hop before = the ultimate hop..=C2=A0 What that did is the PE-P link the packet is forwa= rded without the ldp topmost label intact preserved which contained the EXP= bits for end to end QOS scheduling.

A workaround fix to= this issue was to institute a new feature called =E2=80=9Cexplicit null re= served label value 0=E2=80=9D.=C2=A0 This was implemented using a QOS polic= y called =E2=80=9Cpipe mode=E2=80=9D that allowed the topmost label to now = be preserved and =E2=80=9Cultimate=E2=80=9D hopped which we today call UHP = =E2=80=9CUltimate Hop POP=E2=80=9D.

Another industry dev= elopment that came about to get around the complexity of pipe mode QOS poli= cy to UHP was a enlightening concept but unfortunately did not work for all= use cases.

So the new feature that came about was the a= bility to schedule outbound on each node in the operator MPLS core on both = =C2=A0on the topmost label EXP bits of the topmost was present as well as o= n the preserved =C2=A0inner header dscp this dual PHB scheduling capability= based on which outer header existed or didn=E2=80=99t exist. =C2=A0 This w= orked for enterprises where you have trust relationship with your customer = or are a customer of yourself.

In the service provide ar= ea UHP ultimate hopping to preserve the ldp topmost label became the genera= l rule of thumb golden standard to meet customer SLAs of end to end QOS.

Coming back full circle to SRV6.

The co= ncept of PSP was added to SRv6 I believe to provide parity for operators le= arning curve as well as similarities as SRV6 would be the replacement to mp= ls.

Based on what I have stated above providing history = of PHP and how it came about ; and now adding this truly legacy function to= a NG protocol such as SRv6 to me does not make sense.

I= don=E2=80=99t see the necessity to add just for the sake of adding or prov= iding parity to a soon to be legacy protocol.

I would l= ike to see some technical justification as to why PSP is necessary with our= modern day routers to this in the PR spec.

Warm regards= ,

Gyan

On Fri, Dec 13, 2019= at 5:25 PM Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com> wrote:
That is an udnerstandable argument, ... ex= cept:

It does not acknowledge that there is a cost for this capability, or
discuss the tradeoff.=C2=A0 PSP clearly has a cost.

Also, that does not match my reading of the definition of the SR domain. =C2=A0 In fact, it becomes very confusing as to whether the PE is or is not=
part of the SR domain, since there is nothing in that scenario that
requires any control participation from the egress PE.=C2=A0 =C2=A0Many of = the
SRv6 arguments rely heavily on the notion of domain.=C2=A0 =C2=A0Blurring t= hat
boundary makes things quite confusing.=C2=A0 For example, if the egress PE =
does not understand SRv6 data plane behavior, can it enforce teh
requisite boundary properties?

Yours,
Joel

On 12/13/2019 5:14 PM, Voyer, Daniel wrote:
> I agree 100% with Jingrong,
>
> PSP allows us to bring SRv6 to legacy PE devices that are not capable = of processing the SRH in the dataplane, but are capable of supporting SRv6 = in the control plane.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0
> See this example:
> I am streaming traffic from a server to a customer;
> The ingress PE (near the server) encapsulates the packet and adds an S= RH with a low-latency list of segments;
> The penultimate node in the SRH executes PSP;
> The egress PE (near the customer) decapsulates the IPv6 header and for= wards the inner packet to the customer.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0
> We can include SLA unidirectionally from the server to the customer ev= en though that the egress PE has a legacy ASIC. Legacy equipment are a real= ity and are not easy to replace, hence interoperability with brownfield is = key for any innovative approach.
>
> dan
>
> =EF=BB=BFOn 2019-12-10, 11:15 PM, "spring on behalf of Xiejingron= g (Jingrong)" <spring-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of xiejingrong@huawei.com> wrote: >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 I think it's a good idea.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Nothing new, but benefits that people have already= said seems notable to me.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 (1) reduce the load of final destination. This ben= efit can be notable for the following sub reasons.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 (1.1) final destination tends to have heavy load. = It need to handle all the EHs and do the delivery/demultiplex the packet to= the right overlay service.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 (1.2) example 1, the final destination may need to= handle the DOH after the RH.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 (1.3) example 2, the final destination may need to= do the assembly of fragmented packets.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 (1.4) example 3, the final destination may need to= do AH/ESP after the Fragmentation Header.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 (1.5) example 4, the final destination may need to= deliver the packet to the right overlay service.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 (2) support the incremental deployment when final = destination(s) do not process/recognize SRH. This benefit can be notable fo= r the following sub reasons.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 (2.1) A core router may (fan-out) connected with a= big number of low-end routers that do not support SRH but support tunnel-e= nd/service-demultiplex function of SRv6.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Thanks
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Jingrong
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 -----Original Message-----
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 From: spring [mailto:spring-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of J= oel M. Halpern
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2019 10:55 AM
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 To: spring@ietf.org
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Subject: [spring] Is srv6 PSP a good idea
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 For purposes of this thread, even if you think PSP= violates RFC 8200, let us assume that it is legal.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 As I understand it, the PSP situation is:
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 o the packet arrives at the place (let's not a= rgue about whether SIDs are locators) identified by the SID in the destinat= ion address field o that SID is the next to last SID in the SID list o that= sid is marked as / known to be PSP o at the intended place in the processi= ng pseudocode, the last (first) entry in the SRH is copied into the destina= tion IPv6 address field of the packet
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 -> The SRH being used is then removed from the = packet.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 In order to evaluate whether this is a good idea, = we have to have some idea of the benefit.=C2=A0 It may be that I am missing= some of the benefit, and I would appreciate clarification.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 As far as I can tell, the benefit of this removal = is that in exchange for this node doing the work of removing the SRH, the f= inal node in the SRH does not have to process the SRH at all, as it has bee= n removed.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 I have trouble seeing how that work tradeoff can b= e beneficial.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Removing bytes from the middle of a packet is a co= mplex operation.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Doing so in Silicon (we expect this to be done in = the fast path of significant forwarders as I understand it) requires very s= pecial provision.=C2=A0 Even in software, removing bytes from the middle of= a packet requires somewhere between some and a lot of extra work.=C2=A0 It= is distinctly NOT free.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 In contrast, we have assumed that the work of proc= essing SRH itself is tractable, since otherwise all of SRv6 would be proble= matic.=C2=A0 So why is this necessary.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Yours,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Joel
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 PS: Note that both the MPLS case and the encapsula= tion case are very different in that the material being removed is at the f= ront of the IP packet.=C2=A0 Pop or prepend are MUCH easier than middle-rem= oval (or middle-insertion).
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 _______________________________________________ >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 spring mailing list
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 spring@ietf.org
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://www.ietf.org/mailman/li= stinfo/spring
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 _______________________________________________ >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 spring mailing list
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 spring@ietf.org
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://www.ietf.org/mailman/li= stinfo/spring
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 --------------------------------------------------= ----------------------------
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 External Email: Please use caution when opening li= nks and attachments / Courriel externe: Soyez prudent avec les liens et doc= uments joints
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0
>
> _______________________________________________
> spring mailing list
> spring@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring >

_______________________________________________
spring mailing list
spring@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
--

Gyan S. Mishra

IT Network Eng= ineering & Technology=C2=A0=

Verizon Communications=C2=A0Inc. (VZ)=

13101 Columbia Pike FDC1 3rd Floor

=

Silver Spring, MD 20904

United States<= span style=3D"color:rgb(80,0,80);background-image:initial;background-positi= on:initial;background-repeat:initial">

Phone:=C2=A0301 502-1347

Email:=C2=A0gyan.s.mishra@verizon.= com

www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies-co= nsultant


_______________________________________________
spring mailing list
spring@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
--00000000000041cf1d0599c38bc3-- From nobody Sun Dec 15 13:06:57 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0EB00120058 for ; Sun, 15 Dec 2019 13:06:56 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.997 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.997 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3td-cLxNSOBz for ; Sun, 15 Dec 2019 13:06:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-io1-xd33.google.com (mail-io1-xd33.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d33]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D2BEC120013 for ; Sun, 15 Dec 2019 13:06:52 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-io1-xd33.google.com with SMTP id t26so4403567ioi.13 for ; Sun, 15 Dec 2019 13:06:52 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=YNHeHTfkgSr+MBte69XKxQLV7AgPskdmRB01vU43+XA=; b=tVD41USSQJr0nCvNFCXal3O20f8o0BlO5XenMDVYfQrTBVQYvW0Bom7XV2iUqlpkW1 fsYJrDnvrmvqgZRi1tORXyXObg+HyUYswrF15tpunHO96wZ6PNBOqJNjiIjCei2zRgXh 52Wk6tEkAkdf1B0ZyHn88d/I5ySvYgadSslMDN24HkbHy82A0LN65LwNwnDHGxUzzLtz PhpqdETLwy7CgN8AvwlXHb3+lEcoyWfQTZ8CzuDIkDblBEq/+UD2pKVChllJLsqRjjmi J55F4X8LpQ36zA35ahgt+jeuXn8LAV/iSQQcQ246Wnkqk1l4+juVfAx0e2SlIr42rD2C O3AQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=YNHeHTfkgSr+MBte69XKxQLV7AgPskdmRB01vU43+XA=; b=rfSwfUX2/FLJf1GNR3BWP/dVQFjyc7UsJZWx9RF0qYbAoWm2p6v4SdD2E0XLdImr+T HrJ8agLKopIuHXH2th34dzYUCY/5i91tOon9bjgm0nKOM3AnDYzmRKcds/FLkWyjtPn+ EvJuG/FkmQjDapmCS8o4kwQaKVnOoV9Ok+qPaC4YhFyW2A2eTyOa5P1sJXAKd3LwneZZ A/3867Yj24x477cWNswmqEBQYIGz0/5yduzfpyjalOF59lI+TOLoGAC2YHrJ1duy5PGl A9mkwXwyESGkp+qYnHtJwW3skXhyuVewzG/2dfqkxuQMnkoguQuX6F22/FJKHdRLF+lb OaQQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUot6B9zDawRqJTAkWwJGc8tELxWpQHvuASa1WfSBqb39tfBAZm 5FweYzAmyK/kWaHR8Zv9QZOzO6Xah5C6VxsmrA0= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwFbNjZfIomHRiPVgQ8PeD/EXw4AybUGBRkYjpz5b1j1eV6aqNEQke3+9Cfv5QmBYHVJrVnwaBkZhyEcUgZQr0= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6638:76c:: with SMTP id y12mr9322522jad.95.1576444011889; Sun, 15 Dec 2019 13:06:51 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <0f00cda3-480c-f568-e4c2-a591c7fd260d@joelhalpern.com> In-Reply-To: From: Gyan Mishra Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2019 16:06:41 -0500 Message-ID: To: Robert Raszuk Cc: "Voyer, Daniel" , "spring@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000005646e10599c479ba" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Is srv6 PSP a good idea X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2019 21:06:56 -0000 --0000000000005646e10599c479ba Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Robert Thank you for your candid and concise response. Your response is exactly what I was looking for from Spring. There has been a lot of development across almost every IETF WG related to the SR specification for years now and I was not there Day 2 and even for many of the former years during the initial SR development. I believe consistency is important to any specification so as you stated PHP has been there day 1. I don=E2=80=99t see a necessity to remove from PR draft as it would break = I believe is critical parity across all SR related protocols and WGs. Kind regards, Gyan On Sun, Dec 15, 2019 at 3:00 PM Robert Raszuk wrote: > Gyan, > > Do you think that sending the exact same email twice by copy and paste > makes it any more valid ? > > All, > > To all opponents of PHP - let me refresh you with a bit of SR history. SR > assumed that most of the operational behaviour will be SID type agnostic. > Regardless if I use MPLS SID or IPv6 SID there should be no difference in > the operational model. > > SR PHP is not being defined in NP draft. It has been there since day one > and I suppose it suddenly become the target of attacks perhaps due to no > better one available :). That's actually pretty good prove in itself that > document is really solid and ready to progress. > > Where were you all when IGP extensions were defined ? Take RFC8667 - it > passed all IETF standards process - it defines Prefix-SID TLV and P-flag > there. It defines how to use PHP with mapping server in place. > > NP draft does actually a courtesy to the implementors to clearly define > expected behaviours when using SR-v6. The PHP can be removed from it maki= ng > it less complete, but that will in no way change anything to the rest of > the SR specs in terms of PHP with both MPLS and IPv6. > > Last - think of using SRv6 path steering for IoT devices. Every operation > you save there is a huge gain. Segment endpoints may not always be router= s > and switches and may not even have slow path processing option. > > Best, > Robert. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, Dec 15, 2019 at 6:10 PM Gyan Mishra wrote= : > >> >> Dan >> >> The concept of PHP =E2=80=9CPenultimate Hop POP=E2=80=9D and UHP =E2=80= =9CUltimate Hop POP=E2=80=9D have >> historical meaning as well as real consequences as far as a packet walk >> through an mpls network. >> >> From a historical perspective which is really the correct way to look at >> PHP in the MPLS world was designed by the developers of MPLS 25+ years a= go >> for the following reason. Back then, asic chipsets used by the MPLS >> forwarding plane did not have the horsepower to pop the topmost ldp labe= l >> along with all services bottom of stack labels. >> >> For that reason alone the MPLS developers back then came up with the PHP >> concept. >> >> In essence what that did was allow the ldp topmost label to be popped on= e >> hop prior to the egress LSR PE node on the egress P node. >> >> What that did was offload the entire burden of popping the entire label >> stack done on the PE ultimate hop router to now be offset by one less la= bel >> to pop. Back then that was a big deal and important for processing labe= l >> switched packets at high rates. >> >> PSP became the default standard across all vendors and platforms >> =E2=80=9Cimplicit null label reserved value 3=E2=80=9D >> >> There was a double edged sword that came about from the PSP process. >> >> As mpls became mainstream so did customer SLA and so end to end QOS >> became the forefront importance to all service providers. >> >> The major problem in the MPLS world that came about with PSP is that whe= n >> you pop that label at the egress PE 1 hop before the ultimate hop.. Wha= t >> that did is the PE-P link the packet is forwarded without the ldp topmos= t >> label intact preserved which contained the EXP bits for end to end QOS >> scheduling. >> > >> A workaround fix to this issue was to institute a new feature called >> =E2=80=9Cexplicit null reserved label value 0=E2=80=9D. This was implem= ented using a QOS >> policy called =E2=80=9Cpipe mode=E2=80=9D that allowed the topmost label= to now be >> preserved and =E2=80=9Cultimate=E2=80=9D hopped which we today call UHP = =E2=80=9CUltimate Hop POP=E2=80=9D. >> >> Another industry development that came about to get around the complexit= y >> of pipe mode QOS policy to UHP was a enlightening concept but unfortunat= ely >> did not work for all use cases. >> >> So the new feature that came about was the ability to schedule outbound >> on each node in the operator MPLS core on both on the topmost label EXP >> bits of the topmost was present as well as on the preserved inner heade= r >> dscp this dual PHB scheduling capability based on which outer header >> existed or didn=E2=80=99t exist. This worked for enterprises where you= have trust >> relationship with your customer or are a customer of yourself. >> >> In the service provide area UHP ultimate hopping to preserve the ldp >> topmost label became the general rule of thumb golden standard to meet >> customer SLAs of end to end QOS. >> >> Coming back full circle to SRV6. >> >> The concept of PSP was added to SRv6 I believe to provide parity for >> operators learning curve as well as similarities as SRV6 would be the >> replacement to mpls. >> >> Based on what I have stated above providing history of PHP and how it >> came about ; and now adding this truly legacy function to a NG protocol >> such as SRv6 to me does not make sense. >> >> I don=E2=80=99t see the necessity to add just for the sake of adding or = providing >> parity to a soon to be legacy protocol. >> >> I would like to see some technical justification as to why PSP is >> necessary with our modern day routers to this in the PR spec. >> >> Warm regards, >> >> Gyan >> >> On Fri, Dec 13, 2019 at 5:25 PM Joel M. Halpern >> wrote: >> >>> That is an udnerstandable argument, ... except: >>> >>> It does not acknowledge that there is a cost for this capability, or >>> discuss the tradeoff. PSP clearly has a cost. >>> >>> Also, that does not match my reading of the definition of the SR domain= . >>> In fact, it becomes very confusing as to whether the PE is or is not >>> part of the SR domain, since there is nothing in that scenario that >>> requires any control participation from the egress PE. Many of the >>> SRv6 arguments rely heavily on the notion of domain. Blurring that >>> boundary makes things quite confusing. For example, if the egress PE >>> does not understand SRv6 data plane behavior, can it enforce teh >>> requisite boundary properties? >>> >>> Yours, >>> Joel >>> >>> On 12/13/2019 5:14 PM, Voyer, Daniel wrote: >>> > I agree 100% with Jingrong, >>> > >>> > PSP allows us to bring SRv6 to legacy PE devices that are not capable >>> of processing the SRH in the dataplane, but are capable of supporting S= Rv6 >>> in the control plane. >>> > >>> > See this example: >>> > I am streaming traffic from a server to a customer; >>> > The ingress PE (near the server) encapsulates the packet and adds an >>> SRH with a low-latency list of segments; >>> > The penultimate node in the SRH executes PSP; >>> > The egress PE (near the customer) decapsulates the IPv6 header and >>> forwards the inner packet to the customer. >>> > >>> > We can include SLA unidirectionally from the server to the customer >>> even though that the egress PE has a legacy ASIC. Legacy equipment are = a >>> reality and are not easy to replace, hence interoperability with brownf= ield >>> is key for any innovative approach. >>> > >>> > dan >>> > >>> > =EF=BB=BFOn 2019-12-10, 11:15 PM, "spring on behalf of Xiejingrong (J= ingrong)" >>> wrote: >>> > >>> > I think it's a good idea. >>> > Nothing new, but benefits that people have already said seems >>> notable to me. >>> > >>> > (1) reduce the load of final destination. This benefit can be >>> notable for the following sub reasons. >>> > (1.1) final destination tends to have heavy load. It need to >>> handle all the EHs and do the delivery/demultiplex the packet to the ri= ght >>> overlay service. >>> > (1.2) example 1, the final destination may need to handle the DO= H >>> after the RH. >>> > (1.3) example 2, the final destination may need to do the >>> assembly of fragmented packets. >>> > (1.4) example 3, the final destination may need to do AH/ESP >>> after the Fragmentation Header. >>> > (1.5) example 4, the final destination may need to deliver the >>> packet to the right overlay service. >>> > >>> > (2) support the incremental deployment when final destination(s) >>> do not process/recognize SRH. This benefit can be notable for the follo= wing >>> sub reasons. >>> > (2.1) A core router may (fan-out) connected with a big number of >>> low-end routers that do not support SRH but support >>> tunnel-end/service-demultiplex function of SRv6. >>> > >>> > Thanks >>> > Jingrong >>> > >>> > -----Original Message----- >>> > From: spring [mailto:spring-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Joel >>> M. Halpern >>> > Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2019 10:55 AM >>> > To: spring@ietf.org >>> > Subject: [spring] Is srv6 PSP a good idea >>> > >>> > For purposes of this thread, even if you think PSP violates RFC >>> 8200, let us assume that it is legal. >>> > >>> > As I understand it, the PSP situation is: >>> > o the packet arrives at the place (let's not argue about whether >>> SIDs are locators) identified by the SID in the destination address fie= ld o >>> that SID is the next to last SID in the SID list o that sid is marked a= s / >>> known to be PSP o at the intended place in the processing pseudocode, t= he >>> last (first) entry in the SRH is copied into the destination IPv6 addre= ss >>> field of the packet >>> > -> The SRH being used is then removed from the packet. >>> > >>> > In order to evaluate whether this is a good idea, we have to hav= e >>> some idea of the benefit. It may be that I am missing some of the bene= fit, >>> and I would appreciate clarification. >>> > As far as I can tell, the benefit of this removal is that in >>> exchange for this node doing the work of removing the SRH, the final no= de >>> in the SRH does not have to process the SRH at all, as it has been remo= ved. >>> > >>> > I have trouble seeing how that work tradeoff can be beneficial. >>> > Removing bytes from the middle of a packet is a complex operatio= n. >>> > Doing so in Silicon (we expect this to be done in the fast path >>> of significant forwarders as I understand it) requires very special >>> provision. Even in software, removing bytes from the middle of a packe= t >>> requires somewhere between some and a lot of extra work. It is distinc= tly >>> NOT free. >>> > >>> > In contrast, we have assumed that the work of processing SRH >>> itself is tractable, since otherwise all of SRv6 would be problematic. = So >>> why is this necessary. >>> > >>> > Yours, >>> > Joel >>> > >>> > PS: Note that both the MPLS case and the encapsulation case are >>> very different in that the material being removed is at the front of th= e IP >>> packet. Pop or prepend are MUCH easier than middle-removal (or >>> middle-insertion). >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > spring mailing list >>> > spring@ietf.org >>> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > spring mailing list >>> > spring@ietf.org >>> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring >>> > >>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- >>> > External Email: Please use caution when opening links and >>> attachments / Courriel externe: Soyez prudent avec les liens et documen= ts >>> joints >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > spring mailing list >>> > spring@ietf.org >>> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring >>> > >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> spring mailing list >>> spring@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring >>> >> -- >> >> Gyan S. Mishra >> >> IT Network Engineering & Technology >> >> Verizon Communications Inc. (VZ) >> >> 13101 Columbia Pike >> >> FDC1 3rd Floor >> >> Silver Spring, MD 20904 >> >> United States >> >> Phone: 301 502-1347 >> >> Email: gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com >> >> www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies-consultant >> >> _______________________________________________ >> spring mailing list >> spring@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring >> > -- Gyan S. Mishra IT Network Engineering & Technology Verizon Communications Inc. (VZ) 13101 Columbia Pike FDC1 3rd Floor Silver Spring, MD 20904 United States Phone: 301 502-1347 Email: gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies-consultant --0000000000005646e10599c479ba Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Robert=C2=A0

=
Thank you for your candid and concise response.

Your response is exactly what I w= as looking for from Spring.

There has been a lot of development across almost every IETF WG related= to the SR specification for years now and I was not there Day 2 and even f= or many of the former years during the initial SR development.

I believe consistency is important t= o any specification so as you stated PHP has been there day 1. =C2=A0
=

I don=E2=80=99t see a necessi= ty =C2=A0to remove from PR draft as it would break I believe is critical pa= rity across all SR related protocols and WGs.

Kind=C2=A0regards,

<= div dir=3D"auto">Gyan

On Sun, Dec 15, 2019 at 3:00 PM Robert Raszuk <= ;robert@raszuk.net> wrote:
<= /div>
Gyan,

Do you think that sending the exact same email twice by copy and paste m= akes it any more valid ?=C2=A0

All,

=
To all opponents of PHP - let me refresh=C2=A0you with a bit of = SR history. SR assumed that most of the operational behaviour=C2=A0will be = SID type agnostic. Regardless if I use MPLS SID or IPv6 SID there should be= no difference=C2=A0in the operational model.=C2=A0

SR PHP is not being defined in NP draft. It has been there since day one = and I suppose it suddenly become the target of attacks perhaps due to no be= tter one available :). That's actually pretty good prove in itself that= document is really solid and ready to progress.=C2=A0

=
Where were you all when IGP extensions were defined ? Take RFC8667 - i= t passed all IETF standards process - it defines Prefix-SID TLV and P-flag = there. It defines how to use PHP with mapping server in place.=C2=A0
<= div>
NP draft does actually a courtesy=C2=A0to the= implementors=C2=A0to clearly define expected behaviours when using SR-v6. = The PHP can be removed from=C2=A0it making it less complete, but that will= =C2=A0in no way change anything to the rest of the SR specs in terms of PHP= with both MPLS and IPv6.=C2=A0

Last - think of us= ing SRv6 path steering for IoT devices. Every operation you save there is a= huge gain. Segment endpoints may not always be routers and switches and ma= y not even have slow path processing option.=C2=A0

Best,
Robert.



=





=





=


On Sun, Dec 15, 2019 at 6:10 PM Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com&g= t; wrote:
<= div>

Dan

The concept of PHP =E2=80=9CPenultimate Hop POP=E2=80=9D and UHP =E2= =80=9CUltimate Hop POP=E2=80=9D have historical meaning as well as real con= sequences as far as a packet walk through an mpls network.

From a historical perspective which is really the correct way to look at= PHP in the MPLS world was designed by the developers of MPLS 25+ years ago= for the following reason.=C2=A0 Back then, =C2=A0asic chipsets used by the= MPLS forwarding plane did not have the horsepower to pop the topmost ldp l= abel along with all services bottom of stack labels.

For= that reason alone the MPLS developers back then came up with the PHP conce= pt.

In essence what that did was allow the ldp topmost l= abel to be popped one hop prior to the egress LSR PE node on the egress P n= ode.

What that did was offload the entire burden of popp= ing the entire label stack done on the PE ultimate hop router to now be off= set by one less label to pop.=C2=A0 Back then that was a big deal and impor= tant for processing label switched packets at high rates.

=
PSP became the default standard across all vendors and platforms =E2=80= =9Cimplicit null label reserved value 3=E2=80=9D

There = was a double edged sword that came about from the PSP process.

<= /div>
As mpls became mainstream so did customer SLA and so end to end QOS = became the forefront importance to all service providers. =C2=A0
The major problem in the MPLS world that came about with PSP is th= at when you pop that label at the egress PE 1 hop before the ultimate hop..= =C2=A0 What that did is the PE-P link the packet is forwarded without the l= dp topmost label intact preserved which contained the EXP bits for end to e= nd QOS scheduling.

A workaround fix to this issue w= as to institute a new feature called =E2=80=9Cexplicit null reserved label = value 0=E2=80=9D.=C2=A0 This was implemented using a QOS policy called =E2= =80=9Cpipe mode=E2=80=9D that allowed the topmost label to now be preserved= and =E2=80=9Cultimate=E2=80=9D hopped which we today call UHP =E2=80=9CUlt= imate Hop POP=E2=80=9D.

Another industry development tha= t came about to get around the complexity of pipe mode QOS policy to UHP wa= s a enlightening concept but unfortunately did not work for all use cases.<= /div>

So the new feature that came about was the ability to sc= hedule outbound on each node in the operator MPLS core on both =C2=A0on the= topmost label EXP bits of the topmost was present as well as on the preser= ved =C2=A0inner header dscp this dual PHB scheduling capability based on wh= ich outer header existed or didn=E2=80=99t exist. =C2=A0 This worked for en= terprises where you have trust relationship with your customer or are a cus= tomer of yourself.

In the service provide area UHP ultim= ate hopping to preserve the ldp topmost label became the general rule of th= umb golden standard to meet customer SLAs of end to end QOS.

Coming back full circle to SRV6.

The concept of PS= P was added to SRv6 I believe to provide parity for operators learning curv= e as well as similarities as SRV6 would be the replacement to mpls.
=
Based on what I have stated above providing history of PHP and = how it came about ; and now adding this truly legacy function to a NG proto= col such as SRv6 to me does not make sense.

I don=E2=80= =99t see the necessity to add just for the sake of adding or providing pari= ty to a soon to be legacy protocol.

I would like to see = some technical justification as to why PSP is necessary with our modern day= routers to this in the PR spec.

Warm regards,
=
Gyan

On Fri, Dec 13, 2019 at 5:25 PM= Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com> wrote:
That is an udnerstandable argument, ... except:

It does not acknowledge that there is a cost for this capability, or
discuss the tradeoff.=C2=A0 PSP clearly has a cost.

Also, that does not match my reading of the definition of the SR domain. =C2=A0 In fact, it becomes very confusing as to whether the PE is or is not=
part of the SR domain, since there is nothing in that scenario that
requires any control participation from the egress PE.=C2=A0 =C2=A0Many of = the
SRv6 arguments rely heavily on the notion of domain.=C2=A0 =C2=A0Blurring t= hat
boundary makes things quite confusing.=C2=A0 For example, if the egress PE =
does not understand SRv6 data plane behavior, can it enforce teh
requisite boundary properties?

Yours,
Joel

On 12/13/2019 5:14 PM, Voyer, Daniel wrote:
> I agree 100% with Jingrong,
>
> PSP allows us to bring SRv6 to legacy PE devices that are not capable = of processing the SRH in the dataplane, but are capable of supporting SRv6 = in the control plane.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0
> See this example:
> I am streaming traffic from a server to a customer;
> The ingress PE (near the server) encapsulates the packet and adds an S= RH with a low-latency list of segments;
> The penultimate node in the SRH executes PSP;
> The egress PE (near the customer) decapsulates the IPv6 header and for= wards the inner packet to the customer.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0
> We can include SLA unidirectionally from the server to the customer ev= en though that the egress PE has a legacy ASIC. Legacy equipment are a real= ity and are not easy to replace, hence interoperability with brownfield is = key for any innovative approach.
>
> dan
>
> =EF=BB=BFOn 2019-12-10, 11:15 PM, "spring on behalf of Xiejingron= g (Jingrong)" <spring-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of xiejingrong@huawei.com> wrote: >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 I think it's a good idea.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Nothing new, but benefits that people have already= said seems notable to me.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 (1) reduce the load of final destination. This ben= efit can be notable for the following sub reasons.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 (1.1) final destination tends to have heavy load. = It need to handle all the EHs and do the delivery/demultiplex the packet to= the right overlay service.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 (1.2) example 1, the final destination may need to= handle the DOH after the RH.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 (1.3) example 2, the final destination may need to= do the assembly of fragmented packets.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 (1.4) example 3, the final destination may need to= do AH/ESP after the Fragmentation Header.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 (1.5) example 4, the final destination may need to= deliver the packet to the right overlay service.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 (2) support the incremental deployment when final = destination(s) do not process/recognize SRH. This benefit can be notable fo= r the following sub reasons.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 (2.1) A core router may (fan-out) connected with a= big number of low-end routers that do not support SRH but support tunnel-e= nd/service-demultiplex function of SRv6.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Thanks
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Jingrong
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 -----Original Message-----
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 From: spring [mailto:spring-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of J= oel M. Halpern
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2019 10:55 AM
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 To: spring@ietf.org
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Subject: [spring] Is srv6 PSP a good idea
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 For purposes of this thread, even if you think PSP= violates RFC 8200, let us assume that it is legal.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 As I understand it, the PSP situation is:
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 o the packet arrives at the place (let's not a= rgue about whether SIDs are locators) identified by the SID in the destinat= ion address field o that SID is the next to last SID in the SID list o that= sid is marked as / known to be PSP o at the intended place in the processi= ng pseudocode, the last (first) entry in the SRH is copied into the destina= tion IPv6 address field of the packet
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 -> The SRH being used is then removed from the = packet.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 In order to evaluate whether this is a good idea, = we have to have some idea of the benefit.=C2=A0 It may be that I am missing= some of the benefit, and I would appreciate clarification.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 As far as I can tell, the benefit of this removal = is that in exchange for this node doing the work of removing the SRH, the f= inal node in the SRH does not have to process the SRH at all, as it has bee= n removed.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 I have trouble seeing how that work tradeoff can b= e beneficial.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Removing bytes from the middle of a packet is a co= mplex operation.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Doing so in Silicon (we expect this to be done in = the fast path of significant forwarders as I understand it) requires very s= pecial provision.=C2=A0 Even in software, removing bytes from the middle of= a packet requires somewhere between some and a lot of extra work.=C2=A0 It= is distinctly NOT free.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 In contrast, we have assumed that the work of proc= essing SRH itself is tractable, since otherwise all of SRv6 would be proble= matic.=C2=A0 So why is this necessary.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Yours,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Joel
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 PS: Note that both the MPLS case and the encapsula= tion case are very different in that the material being removed is at the f= ront of the IP packet.=C2=A0 Pop or prepend are MUCH easier than middle-rem= oval (or middle-insertion).
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 _______________________________________________ >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 spring mailing list
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 spring@ietf.org
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://www.ietf.org/mailman/li= stinfo/spring
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 _______________________________________________ >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 spring mailing list
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 spring@ietf.org
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://www.ietf.org/mailman/li= stinfo/spring
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 --------------------------------------------------= ----------------------------
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 External Email: Please use caution when opening li= nks and attachments / Courriel externe: Soyez prudent avec les liens et doc= uments joints
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0
>
> _______________________________________________
> spring mailing list
> spring@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring >

_______________________________________________
spring mailing list
spring@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
--

Gyan S. Mishra

IT Network Eng= ineering & Technology=C2=A0=

Verizon Communications=C2=A0Inc. (VZ)=

13101 Columb= ia Pike FDC1 3rd Floor

=

Silver Spring, MD 20904

United States<= span style=3D"color:rgb(80,0,80);background-image:initial;background-positi= on:initial;background-repeat:initial">

Phone:=C2=A0301 502-1347

Email:=C2=A0gyan.s.mishra@verizon.= com

www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies-co= nsultant


_______________________________________________
spring mailing list
spring@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
--
<= div dir=3D"ltr">

Gyan S. Mishra

IT Networ= k Engineering & Technology=C2=A0=

Verizon Communications=C2=A0Inc. (VZ)=

13101 Columbia Pike FDC1 3rd Floor

=

Silver Spring, MD 20904

United States<= span style=3D"color:rgb(80,0,80);background-image:initial;background-positi= on:initial;background-repeat:initial">

Phone:=C2=A0301 502-1347

Email:=C2=A0gyan.s.mishra@verizon.= com

www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies-co= nsultant


--0000000000005646e10599c479ba-- From nobody Sun Dec 15 16:08:06 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietf.org Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1F8C12004A; Sun, 15 Dec 2019 16:08:04 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: spring@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.113.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: spring@ietf.org Message-ID: <157645488473.11514.14849824578103099190@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2019 16:08:04 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [spring] I-D Action: draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-policy-06.txt X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2019 00:08:05 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Source Packet Routing in Networking WG of the IETF. Title : Segment Routing Policy Architecture Authors : Clarence Filsfils Siva Sivabalan Daniel Voyer Alex Bogdanov Paul Mattes Filename : draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-policy-06.txt Pages : 35 Date : 2019-12-15 Abstract: Segment Routing (SR) allows a headend node to steer a packet flow along any path. Intermediate per-flow states are eliminated thanks to source routing. The headend node steers a flow into an SR Policy. The header of a packet steered in an SR Policy is augmented with an ordered list of segments associated with that SR Policy. This document details the concepts of SR Policy and steering into an SR Policy. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-policy/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-policy-06 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-policy-06 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-policy-06 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Sun Dec 15 17:06:08 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EEB4F12009E; Sun, 15 Dec 2019 17:06:06 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.498 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.498 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, FROM_LOCAL_NOVOWEL=0.5, HK_RANDOM_ENVFROM=0.001, HK_RANDOM_FROM=1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZnqgMLSEJSIa; Sun, 15 Dec 2019 17:06:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ot1-x32e.google.com (mail-ot1-x32e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::32e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 738F112008F; Sun, 15 Dec 2019 17:06:04 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ot1-x32e.google.com with SMTP id 66so6847114otd.9; Sun, 15 Dec 2019 17:06:04 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=URIDFfbThbNvvyODMA2n1G81S8mVeSZJfCd0ul9ZB6k=; b=p05FMV6xMLRYCZANFOEfpoKk6LXiQFj/x0JDY7XIYsrblL/AUHZVTpVBYxMAPtbl06 mORizY1c+VVwSAXZ+ndpmu86TcVz5yXHsbS1IhFgnWwvvglXWUKmzhpyMT80iqAp1ur0 5niCRyT8vp6sdGk8iN9Q62GrFJZIN5KK0SfLme5I4cGCSHXM7SO1Oycddcz19IyyMg6A VHCBjBDpMfPxp6A3/BS8UJDh99NaW3dRb+Eng6gIuvrbPfPJdRu/7xkoTUa2Jpz8TMkz dhoeNtN4BtPDJeURGzw01STeAoNm3it+FrgM4teaEYCEbt6QkUkGPoOhOKzz//Y5obVZ GFLg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=URIDFfbThbNvvyODMA2n1G81S8mVeSZJfCd0ul9ZB6k=; b=t4w2AqrTwLWfaURCEmsMwvoTASrLBI4cvIqw9KxK6X5jWDXqW7+BWdARgOZ7HUfcfR kX8EgoWFRPgU2TjgsQG95TSLg8s5wlyYjBctLvaILt6p1mMC2QFXwUmBB0gLXc+8KzB7 PhEDoSnjvNBRxlANMpEO7zNXhWlE3DsjTAJ+d5iPr21SR086JKW5G068ZsDEkH9OHZSd UPE7tRBaGJOtGgiJzi5mobD8n7/EnwPJtABCW2WPSg1jkNtNWrKnHmdlo39x3xj2ntSS j37Cra3A7v4y4LsTNJNzn7fPEndMWjblRi7iwRbQ0eW4xzvePdm4lUiOQIYYZbJXBu5p Vm5Q== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXAnMYpuFns72cA6q7IywDpzjbiGCnOtg5HwRVYx8ojoq2Nzf+a rm2j7NlG6zphjMAkRFsEfiVdhIfRQYXt/SNqUWHQLyQz X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwUZfBu6/uciIPIY4gAvt7rRBAcOgXDmypiTchg4z2A7O7GKB9a2ZoRgUkxpvUA5y1KvtqzjmfHVRVcaCZwons= X-Received: by 2002:a9d:6005:: with SMTP id h5mr30207363otj.153.1576458363488; Sun, 15 Dec 2019 17:06:03 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <157645488473.11514.14849824578103099190@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <157645488473.11514.14849824578103099190@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Mark Smith Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2019 12:05:37 +1100 Message-ID: To: SPRING WG Cc: i-d-announce@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] I-D Action: draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-policy-06.txt X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2019 01:06:07 -0000 "The endpoint indicates the destination of the policy. The endpoint is specified as an IPv4 or IPv6 address and is expected to be unique in the domain. In a specific case (refer to Section 8.8.1), the endpoint can be the null address (0.0.0.0 for IPv4, ::0 for IPv6)." Per Internet Standard 3 / RFC 1122, 0.0.0.0 is an illegal IPv4 destination address.* Per RFC 4291, ::0 is an illegal IPv6 destination address. Regards, Mark. *People doing tricky things with 0.0.0.0 has cost me and a past employer 2 weeks of needless troubleshooting, delaying a product/service launch. http://lists.ausnog.net/pipermail/ausnog/2017-July/039402.html On Mon, 16 Dec 2019 at 11:08, wrote: > > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. > This draft is a work item of the Source Packet Routing in Networking WG of the IETF. > > Title : Segment Routing Policy Architecture > Authors : Clarence Filsfils > Siva Sivabalan > Daniel Voyer > Alex Bogdanov > Paul Mattes > Filename : draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-policy-06.txt > Pages : 35 > Date : 2019-12-15 > > Abstract: > Segment Routing (SR) allows a headend node to steer a packet flow > along any path. Intermediate per-flow states are eliminated thanks > to source routing. The headend node steers a flow into an SR Policy. > The header of a packet steered in an SR Policy is augmented with an > ordered list of segments associated with that SR Policy. This > document details the concepts of SR Policy and steering into an SR > Policy. > > > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-policy/ > > There are also htmlized versions available at: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-policy-06 > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-policy-06 > > A diff from the previous version is available at: > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-policy-06 > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring From nobody Sun Dec 15 21:43:46 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DB1E1200B5; 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Mon, 16 Dec 2019 05:43:37 +0000 From: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" To: Mark Smith , SPRING WG CC: "i-d-announce@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [spring] I-D Action: draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-policy-06.txt Thread-Index: AQHVs6UCoeT9WMvi1EykcMs95wQFWae78pCAgABKE/A= Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2019 05:43:37 +0000 Message-ID: References: <157645488473.11514.14849824578103099190@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=ketant@cisco.com; x-originating-ip: [2001:420:c0e0:1004::11] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 07d33e52-cf71-406c-ded9-08d781eae5e1 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: MWHPR11MB1966: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:9508; x-forefront-prvs: 02530BD3AA x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10009020)(366004)(39860400002)(136003)(396003)(376002)(346002)(189003)(199004)(13464003)(5660300002)(52536014)(8676002)(81156014)(8936002)(81166006)(966005)(478600001)(66574012)(71200400001)(9686003)(55016002)(33656002)(66476007)(2906002)(66556008)(64756008)(66446008)(66946007)(76116006)(110136005)(316002)(86362001)(4001150100001)(53546011)(6506007)(7696005)(186003)(4326008); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; SCL:1; SRVR:MWHPR11MB1966; H:MWHPR11MB1600.namprd11.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:1; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: cisco.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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 x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 07d33e52-cf71-406c-ded9-08d781eae5e1 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 16 Dec 2019 05:43:37.3450 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5ae1af62-9505-4097-a69a-c1553ef7840e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: a1WFQrhNkSgA8MI4bsu4xXhisQovw+Y26/Nl0igCS3U6BOefmvGF1C27EMaixILyodNjFgEHL8f2TSlo5TJxcA== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: MWHPR11MB1966 X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.37.102.18, xch-rcd-008.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: alln-core-7.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] I-D Action: draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-policy-06.txt X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2019 05:43:45 -0000 Hi Mark, The draft talks about "destination of the policy" as in the tail-end node o= f the SR Policy. It does not talk about the destination IP address in the p= acket. You can consider this as a "default policy" on similar lines as a default r= oute. Please see the section below which will cover one of the use-cases for stee= ring over such SR policies to the null endpoint. https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-policy-06#sec= tion-8.8.1 Hope that clarifies. Thanks, Ketan -----Original Message----- From: spring On Behalf Of Mark Smith Sent: 16 December 2019 06:36 To: SPRING WG Cc: i-d-announce@ietf.org Subject: Re: [spring] I-D Action: draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-policy-= 06.txt "The endpoint indicates the destination of the policy. The endpoint is specified as an IPv4 or IPv6 address and is expected to be unique in the domain. In a specific case (refer to Section 8.8.1), the endpoint can be the null address (0.0.0.0 for IPv4, ::0 for IPv6)." Per Internet Standard 3 / RFC 1122, 0.0.0.0 is an illegal IPv4 destination = address.* Per RFC 4291, ::0 is an illegal IPv6 destination address. Regards, Mark. *People doing tricky things with 0.0.0.0 has cost me and a past employer 2 = weeks of needless troubleshooting, delaying a product/service launch. http://lists.ausnog.net/pipermail/ausnog/2017-July/039402.html On Mon, 16 Dec 2019 at 11:08, wrote: > > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts direct= ories. > This draft is a work item of the Source Packet Routing in Networking WG o= f the IETF. > > Title : Segment Routing Policy Architecture > Authors : Clarence Filsfils > Siva Sivabalan > Daniel Voyer > Alex Bogdanov > Paul Mattes > Filename : draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-policy-06.txt > Pages : 35 > Date : 2019-12-15 > > Abstract: > Segment Routing (SR) allows a headend node to steer a packet flow > along any path. Intermediate per-flow states are eliminated thanks > to source routing. The headend node steers a flow into an SR Policy. > The header of a packet steered in an SR Policy is augmented with an > ordered list of segments associated with that SR Policy. This > document details the concepts of SR Policy and steering into an SR > Policy. > > > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-pol > icy/ > > There are also htmlized versions available at: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-policy-0 > 6 > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-spring-segment-routin > g-policy-06 > > A diff from the previous version is available at: > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-po > licy-06 > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of=20 > submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.iet= f.org. > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring _______________________________________________ spring mailing list spring@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring From nobody Sun Dec 15 22:57:11 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72B3A1200E3; Sun, 15 Dec 2019 22:57:09 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.497 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.497 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, FROM_LOCAL_NOVOWEL=0.5, HK_RANDOM_ENVFROM=0.001, HK_RANDOM_FROM=1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pDDCxOPFh2Fv; Sun, 15 Dec 2019 22:57:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ot1-x32f.google.com (mail-ot1-x32f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::32f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 924B5120024; Sun, 15 Dec 2019 22:57:07 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ot1-x32f.google.com with SMTP id 77so7831589oty.6; Sun, 15 Dec 2019 22:57:07 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=T9pKQLd4RVJN0I2TXhk8daV4ckEOeGp0ZzLYe7A/bQA=; b=kpnKT6/W6PimYpNBffgwgD7EE1xW/4RtXlaSg8UGmXF1WUrlXlSkT4aGCafoIe0rt2 312mVHRJaDo2fDnnfiYDyTs2YSdCKpMhfNOYohGQS7esPFQhOdmg69QMTn6GXqp4gzUD YF3INoxlV98XdzWREIjAwwQEaXubtwmCiYaKab0rbb1ODPu6QnGaHNZUo4+S/bmHIXnb dZqCDv3fc1T4juIPU0bYJ2//ofrob4OKcajoFmBrnSXlmh5BMjTzaRgpTy8+/Y5a/uJN WKWo/PokwH+S+Kavf9sg5lW41EVfhHDdgI4jebmlTiTBRazwLhq70q44Q1XZZWN1wgBd VbMQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=T9pKQLd4RVJN0I2TXhk8daV4ckEOeGp0ZzLYe7A/bQA=; b=UO0XvjKc7Yo9+tX0oSrk5qewjodREm44mKYLuw4gFAnkAx6WUbEYhLliLpoygUHxIv oHva7AXReu0F/I2n5cKNIQwSqYl6Tf+IS9bvDQgy/ymeOkkyTmj+RhQsf0YduIC5Flf4 01JHuBl3iQK72KlXWomsVC62KjsvNW+FlwwnPckizJGBM/H5dY5/nQOc6qbyOs/uWlMA 9ONl8V5TFbm5q7DHUfX2xhpWeftNkVl19uytdIbxH48fGkM0E8wjbAFXeAAyH5GFLqcZ EZ4zIapp96pgPacIPjAIm5pUfY57tutHuxCN71ITDto93MmHi3u30Aho2hov+5Hu0GcU abpw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAU9oOt6vpRnIDdpJq279vsNm+CVrGouDzzOgamrGp2UNUXDO5/S fWh4k0pTcn5VN3uL8xuN/MGszOHxxGuW6+ujHIZapg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyVtFXsuZ1+FMxuniVrX5d9mzBqjNnyvvyATgy5YVopST/gHZuEHc9ofPpzNymGNV2jqsKd6WtkfSK5RKIXwwE= X-Received: by 2002:a9d:6005:: with SMTP id h5mr31574500otj.153.1576479426895; Sun, 15 Dec 2019 22:57:06 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <157645488473.11514.14849824578103099190@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: From: Mark Smith Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2019 17:56:54 +1100 Message-ID: To: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" Cc: SPRING WG , i-d-announce@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000003c69b10599ccb8da" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] I-D Action: draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-policy-06.txt X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2019 06:57:09 -0000 --0000000000003c69b10599ccb8da Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Mon, 16 Dec 2019, 16:43 Ketan Talaulikar (ketant), wrote: > Hi Mark, > > The draft talks about "destination of the policy" as in the tail-end node > of the SR Policy. It does not talk about the destination IP address in the > packet. > > You can consider this as a "default policy" on similar lines as a default > route. > > Please see the section below which will cover one of the use-cases for > steering over such SR policies to the null endpoint. > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-policy-06#section-8.8.1 > > Hope that clarifies. > I don't think it does. > If this text is true - "The endpoint is specified as an IPv4 or IPv6 address" - then those are illegal IPv4 and IPv6 addresses. If these are not being used as IPv4 or IPv6 addresses, then they cannot be referred to as IPv4 or IPv6 addresses. It is confusing and inaccurate if they are. > Thanks, > Ketan > > -----Original Message----- > From: spring On Behalf Of Mark Smith > Sent: 16 December 2019 06:36 > To: SPRING WG > Cc: i-d-announce@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [spring] I-D Action: > draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-policy-06.txt > > "The endpoint indicates the destination of the policy. The endpoint > is specified as an IPv4 or IPv6 address and is expected to be unique > in the domain. In a specific case (refer to Section 8.8.1), the > endpoint can be the null address (0.0.0.0 for IPv4, ::0 for IPv6)." > > Per Internet Standard 3 / RFC 1122, 0.0.0.0 is an illegal IPv4 destination > address.* > > Per RFC 4291, ::0 is an illegal IPv6 destination address. > > > Regards, > Mark. > > > *People doing tricky things with 0.0.0.0 has cost me and a past employer 2 > weeks of needless troubleshooting, delaying a product/service launch. > > http://lists.ausnog.net/pipermail/ausnog/2017-July/039402.html > > > On Mon, 16 Dec 2019 at 11:08, wrote: > > > > > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts > directories. > > This draft is a work item of the Source Packet Routing in Networking WG > of the IETF. > > > > Title : Segment Routing Policy Architecture > > Authors : Clarence Filsfils > > Siva Sivabalan > > Daniel Voyer > > Alex Bogdanov > > Paul Mattes > > Filename : draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-policy-06.txt > > Pages : 35 > > Date : 2019-12-15 > > > > Abstract: > > Segment Routing (SR) allows a headend node to steer a packet flow > > along any path. Intermediate per-flow states are eliminated thanks > > to source routing. The headend node steers a flow into an SR Policy. > > The header of a packet steered in an SR Policy is augmented with an > > ordered list of segments associated with that SR Policy. This > > document details the concepts of SR Policy and steering into an SR > > Policy. > > > > > > > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-pol > > icy/ > > > > There are also htmlized versions available at: > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-policy-0 > > 6 > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-spring-segment-routin > > g-policy-06 > > > > A diff from the previous version is available at: > > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-po > > licy-06 > > > > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > > submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at > tools.ietf.org. > > > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > spring mailing list > > spring@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > --0000000000003c69b10599ccb8da Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Mon, 16 Dec 2019, 16:43 Ketan Talaulikar (ketant), = <ketant@cisco.com> wrote:
Hi Mark,

The draft talks about "destination of the policy" as in the tail-= end node of the SR Policy. It does not talk about the destination IP addres= s in the packet.

You can consider this as a "default policy" on similar lines as a= default route.

Please see the section below which will cover one of the use-cases for stee= ring over such SR policies to the null endpoint.
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-segment-rou= ting-policy-06#section-8.8.1

Hope that clarifies.


I don't think it does.<= /div>

If this text is true - "The e= ndpoint
=C2=A0 =C2=A0is = specified as an IPv4 or IPv6 address" - then those are illegal IPv4 an= d IPv6 addresses.

If these are not bein= g used as IPv4 or IPv6 addresses, then they cannot be referred to as IPv4 o= r IPv6 addresses. It is confusing and inaccurate if they are.
<= div dir=3D"auto">


Thanks,
Ketan

-----Original Message-----
From: spring <spring-bounces@ietf.org>= On Behalf Of Mark Smith
Sent: 16 December 2019 06:36
To: SPRING WG <spring@ietf.org>
Cc: i-d-announce@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [spring] I-D Action: draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-policy-= 06.txt

"The endpoint indicates the destination of the policy.=C2=A0 The endpo= int
=C2=A0 =C2=A0is specified as an IPv4 or IPv6 address and is expected to be = unique
=C2=A0 =C2=A0in the domain.=C2=A0 In a specific case (refer to Section 8.8.= 1), the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0endpoint can be the null address (0.0.0.0 for IPv4, ::0 for IP= v6)."

Per Internet Standard 3 / RFC 1122, 0.0.0.0 is an illegal IPv4 destination = address.*

Per RFC 4291, ::0 is an illegal IPv6 destination address.


Regards,
Mark.


*People doing tricky things with 0.0.0.0 has cost me and a past employer 2 = weeks of needless troubleshooting, delaying a product/service launch.

http:= //lists.ausnog.net/pipermail/ausnog/2017-July/039402.html


On Mon, 16 Dec 2019 at 11:08, <internet-draf= ts@ietf.org> wrote:
>
>
> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts dir= ectories.
> This draft is a work item of the Source Packet Routing in Networking W= G of the IETF.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Title=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0: Segment Routing Policy Architecture
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Authors=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0: Clarence Filsfils
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Siva Sivabalan
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Daniel Voyer
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Alex Bogdanov
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Paul Mattes
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Filename=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 := draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-policy-06.txt
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Pages=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0: 35
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Date=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 : 2019-12-15
>
> Abstract:
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Segment Routing (SR) allows a headend node to steer a pac= ket flow
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 along any path.=C2=A0 Intermediate per-flow states are el= iminated thanks
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 to source routing.=C2=A0 The headend node steers a flow i= nto an SR Policy.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 The header of a packet steered in an SR Policy is augment= ed with an
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 ordered list of segments associated with that SR Policy.= =C2=A0 This
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 document details the concepts of SR Policy and steering i= nto an SR
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Policy.
>
>
>
> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-= pol
> icy/
>
> There are also htmlized versions available at:
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-polic= y-0
> 6
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-spring-segment-rou= tin
> g-policy-06
>
> A diff from the previous version is available at:
> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-spring-segment-r= outing-po
> licy-06
>
>
> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of
> submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
>
> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet= -drafts/
>
> _______________________________________________
> spring mailing list
> spring@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.o= rg/mailman/listinfo/spring

_______________________________________________
spring mailing list
spring@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/ma= ilman/listinfo/spring
--0000000000003c69b10599ccb8da-- From nobody Mon Dec 16 01:41:05 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 578DD120121; Mon, 16 Dec 2019 01:40:58 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ok7VA0B7RrMZ; Mon, 16 Dec 2019 01:40:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pj1-x102c.google.com (mail-pj1-x102c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::102c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E1C7B120112; Mon, 16 Dec 2019 01:40:56 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pj1-x102c.google.com with SMTP id n96so2737827pjc.3; Mon, 16 Dec 2019 01:40:56 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:date:subject:references :to:message-id; bh=aaKuIkM85a96O/5nZITLIebiXZ8SGkGwMeOCOnw7J/s=; b=c1Vo9ongZpwi7ckXXRZUly1HKuc75vFWe4drYiMTL652v7AuNLvNcwCxeJtsl1hlt3 SLHulnY0uhwgMowRVg8Rjr8liGAWqZF94c/CJP88zmZEgI8/Wspt7o8tWNT+u1WSO/re HIukkmfzwSi99Ln2MmpB3eBzUtevzkn3UCPqSg6otlAsVcqurmdGUk2ow4Gj9CB8KVob z9V0cvbYl4WUXNA+GJtTMR5Bcu4t3Ro5obmlfnxfEu1YekTKkur7X1iF5/ZGRLzd7L6f QxLcmfrWkelnPSRYTZoaoebXxc98GAHDBWEpe4PCknasDPxLPNEwhMndJon4OC7EJu8S W4UQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:date :subject:references:to:message-id; bh=aaKuIkM85a96O/5nZITLIebiXZ8SGkGwMeOCOnw7J/s=; b=YgkizEB61Cap1yP8L5MPiEX3nwkxJyT2uW8x4U+VlqJCYMiVuHRc9HHzpGd5gDxyPe elu4VuYAQO1sT11d+AzuNOk8dqVqXy10c/gbEnd9o75OQQcldbuHZSXRug3xhNoDcDO6 z1kKtcuqt7Lcxj2CGwgycqgcd7kbHCwVkD3LnvRL2HdFcjJyMjgDX/SeO1hnEgRqFp+q SxcjmR7KlC9EvCefriX47wepTB4D8R0tlXgPJbDIjyVhC5ifdwj2BFXQvQ+yXTU9YZCH JYEvOJ3lY2QGqbnFb+hBa2SkwNE2mNOuZiz7hKyeM4OwHPiL+5pRCQMrms/FRoeXMDr7 2yFQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVySu7YYh63YPveI6DZiMPNANLGFvUwNFnSyba+XC0JPgv3sJnR rMXblvTEo8P2ng0f3+g7rtT0OArm X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyaPmNNseIm9iaptvPBasRx33peLqhu8ckgE/5jUo5XwsGwl09ooJX3OEgbQ3cAvih2ahxT9g== X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:bf47:: with SMTP id u7mr15418186pls.259.1576489255820; Mon, 16 Dec 2019 01:40:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.207.115.226] ([202.45.12.164]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id p38sm18016604pjp.27.2019.12.16.01.40.54 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 16 Dec 2019 01:40:55 -0800 (PST) From: Satoru Matsushima Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.0 \(3601.0.10\)) Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2019 18:40:51 +0900 References: <157609517128.11501.9221419609663559517.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> To: SPRING WG List , 6man WG Message-Id: <4A60D2ED-5D3D-434D-B365-441551DCC776@gmail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3601.0.10) Archived-At: Subject: [spring] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-matsushima-spring-srv6-deployment-status-04.txt X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2019 09:40:58 -0000 Hi all, We have updated SRv6 deployment status draft with the information from = Iliad and Noia.=20 The contents would be much more informative than previous version. = Especially for operators, who are interested in SRv6, you can find that = interoperability between multiple implementaions, and size of deployment = which the number exceeds thousands of nodes. (For some confidentiality = policy, the Softbank case keeps same text. But there=E2=80=99s larger = number of the boxes are deployed and it=E2=80=99s still growing.)=20 We hope that the draft shows eco-system of SRv6 has been growing in the = industry.=20 Best regards, --satoru > =E8=BB=A2=E9=80=81=E3=81=95=E3=82=8C=E3=81=9F=E3=83=A1=E3=83=83=E3=82=BB= =E3=83=BC=E3=82=B8: >=20 > =E5=B7=AE=E5=87=BA=E4=BA=BA: > =E4=BB=B6=E5=90=8D: New Version Notification for = draft-matsushima-spring-srv6-deployment-status-04.txt > =E6=97=A5=E4=BB=98: 2019=E5=B9=B412=E6=9C=8812=E6=97=A5 5:12:51 JST > =E5=AE=9B=E5=85=88: Zafar Ali , Clarence Filsfils = , Zhenbin Li , Satoru = Matsushima >=20 >=20 > A new version of I-D, = draft-matsushima-spring-srv6-deployment-status-04.txt > has been successfully submitted by Zafar Ali and posted to the > IETF repository. >=20 > Name: draft-matsushima-spring-srv6-deployment-status > Revision: 04 > Title: SRv6 Implementation and Deployment Status > Document date: 2019-12-11 > Group: Individual Submission > Pages: 22 > URL: = https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-matsushima-spring-srv6-deployme= nt-status-04.txt > Status: = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-matsushima-spring-srv6-deployment-s= tatus/ > Htmlized: = https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-matsushima-spring-srv6-deployment-status= -04 > Htmlized: = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-matsushima-spring-srv6-deploym= ent-status > Diff: = https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-matsushima-spring-srv6-deploymen= t-status-04 >=20 > Abstract: > This draft provides an overview of IPv6 Segment Routing (SRv6) > deployment status. It lists various SRv6 features that have been > deployed in the production networks. It also provides an overview = of > SRv6 implementation and interoperability testing status. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of = submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >=20 > The IETF Secretariat >=20 >=20 From nobody Mon Dec 16 02:07:13 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B98112013A for ; Mon, 16 Dec 2019 02:07:11 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.498 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.498 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: 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16 Dec 2019 10:06:40 +0000 From: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" To: Mark Smith CC: SPRING WG Thread-Topic: [spring] I-D Action: draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-policy-06.txt Thread-Index: AQHVs6UCoeT9WMvi1EykcMs95wQFWae78pCAgABKE/CAABgSAIAALTpA Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2019 10:06:40 +0000 Message-ID: References: <157645488473.11514.14849824578103099190@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=ketant@cisco.com; x-originating-ip: [2001:420:c0e0:1004::11] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: c3dbcd43-697f-4b67-0f12-08d7820fa550 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: MWHPR11MB1536: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:10000; x-forefront-prvs: 02530BD3AA x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; 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APjAAAVvflZ5ayNt+PBd60VN3+nrlkdlccfKlGKeSLAQ1Q48SoAWcSA9 OtddGTAmsqSzxvLPiowrJo3d9LA0wx2RDdDeqbq/sA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxdMv2ibGQGGlbDgPvmHsw4wIIoYd1QOmx3ztNLtgs7WciTMofugvzYpZVcOhzuHlcS83LhLp6ug65Gidu24ag= X-Received: by 2002:a37:6087:: with SMTP id u129mr25820678qkb.219.1576493141037; Mon, 16 Dec 2019 02:45:41 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <157645488473.11514.14849824578103099190@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: From: Robert Raszuk Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2019 11:45:31 +0100 Message-ID: To: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" Cc: Mark Smith , SPRING WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000a9bda90599cfe94a" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] I-D Action: draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-policy-06.txt X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2019 10:45:46 -0000 --000000000000a9bda90599cfe94a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Ketan, I think Mark is right here. I went through this document again and it seems that it defines endpoint to be used as either "address" or "prefix". See there is nothing wrong with using prefix ... but "address" is normally referred to what is in the packet. Moreover your examples of default routes specify special prefixes of 0.0.0.0 not addresses. Honestly if you re-define all endpoint use as prefix you will nicely cover over all of your cases. Even more ... you will also nicely cover SR anycast case. So my suggestion would be to encode endpoint as prefix+mask in all cases here. Thx, R. On Mon, Dec 16, 2019 at 11:07 AM Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) wrote: > Hi Mark, > > > > Could you share references which says it is illegal to refer to 0.0.0.0 or > :: as IP addresses? > > > > Many (if not most) implementations use these representations of IP > addresses when provisioning a default static route and there is nothing > wrong with doing so. > > > > The link you shared previously that indicated an issue because someone was > using these zero addresses as destination IP in the packets. That would be > an incorrect analogy since there is no such proposal in this document. > > > > Thanks, > > Ketan > > > > *From:* Mark Smith > *Sent:* 16 December 2019 12:27 > *To:* Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) > *Cc:* SPRING WG ; i-d-announce@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: [spring] I-D Action: > draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-policy-06.txt > > > > > > On Mon, 16 Dec 2019, 16:43 Ketan Talaulikar (ketant), > wrote: > > Hi Mark, > > The draft talks about "destination of the policy" as in the tail-end node > of the SR Policy. It does not talk about the destination IP address in the > packet. > > You can consider this as a "default policy" on similar lines as a default > route. > > Please see the section below which will cover one of the use-cases for > steering over such SR policies to the null endpoint. > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-policy-06#section-8.8.1 > > Hope that clarifies. > > > > > > I don't think it does. > > > > If this text is true - "The endpoint > > is specified as an IPv4 or IPv6 address" - then those are illegal IPv4 > and IPv6 addresses. > > > > If these are not being used as IPv4 or IPv6 addresses, then they cannot be > referred to as IPv4 or IPv6 addresses. It is confusing and inaccurate if > they are. > > > > > Thanks, > Ketan > > -----Original Message----- > From: spring On Behalf Of Mark Smith > Sent: 16 December 2019 06:36 > To: SPRING WG > Cc: i-d-announce@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [spring] I-D Action: > draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-policy-06.txt > > "The endpoint indicates the destination of the policy. The endpoint > is specified as an IPv4 or IPv6 address and is expected to be unique > in the domain. In a specific case (refer to Section 8.8.1), the > endpoint can be the null address (0.0.0.0 for IPv4, ::0 for IPv6)." > > Per Internet Standard 3 / RFC 1122, 0.0.0.0 is an illegal IPv4 destination > address.* > > Per RFC 4291, ::0 is an illegal IPv6 destination address. > > > Regards, > Mark. > > > *People doing tricky things with 0.0.0.0 has cost me and a past employer 2 > weeks of needless troubleshooting, delaying a product/service launch. > > http://lists.ausnog.net/pipermail/ausnog/2017-July/039402.html > > > On Mon, 16 Dec 2019 at 11:08, wrote: > > > > > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts > directories. > > This draft is a work item of the Source Packet Routing in Networking WG > of the IETF. > > > > Title : Segment Routing Policy Architecture > > Authors : Clarence Filsfils > > Siva Sivabalan > > Daniel Voyer > > Alex Bogdanov > > Paul Mattes > > Filename : draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-policy-06.txt > > Pages : 35 > > Date : 2019-12-15 > > > > Abstract: > > Segment Routing (SR) allows a headend node to steer a packet flow > > along any path. Intermediate per-flow states are eliminated thanks > > to source routing. The headend node steers a flow into an SR Policy. > > The header of a packet steered in an SR Policy is augmented with an > > ordered list of segments associated with that SR Policy. This > > document details the concepts of SR Policy and steering into an SR > > Policy. > > > > > > > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-pol > > icy/ > > > > There are also htmlized versions available at: > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-policy-0 > > 6 > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-spring-segment-routin > > g-policy-06 > > > > A diff from the previous version is available at: > > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-po > > licy-06 > > > > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > > submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at > tools.ietf.org. > > > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > spring mailing list > > spring@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > --000000000000a9bda90599cfe94a Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Ketan,

I think Mark is right here.= =C2=A0

I went through this document again and it s= eems that it defines endpoint to be used as either "address" or &= quot;prefix". See there is nothing wrong with using prefix ... but &qu= ot;address" is normally referred to what is in the packet.=C2=A0
=

Moreover your examples of default routes specify specia= l prefixes of 0.0.0.0 not addresses.=C2=A0

Honestl= y if you re-define all endpoint use as prefix you will nicely cover over al= l of your cases. Even more ... you will also nicely cover SR anycast case. = So my suggestion would be to encode endpoint as prefix+mask in all cases he= re.=C2=A0

Thx,
R.


=



On Mon, Dec 16, 2019 at 11:07 AM Ketan = Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.co= m> wrote:

Hi Mark,

=C2=A0

Could you share references which says it is il= legal to refer to 0.0.0.0 or :: as IP addresses?

=C2=A0

Many (if not most) implementations use these r= epresentations of IP addresses when provisioning a default static route and= there is nothing wrong with doing so.

=C2=A0

The link you shared previously that indicated = an issue because someone was using these zero addresses as destination IP i= n the packets. That would be an incorrect analogy since there is no such pr= oposal in this document.

=C2=A0

Thanks,

Ketan

=C2=A0

From: Mark Smith <markzzzsmith@gmail.com>
Sent: 16 December 2019 12:27
To: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com>
Cc: SPRING WG <spring@ietf.org>; i-d-announce@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [spring] I-D Action: draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-= policy-06.txt

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

On Mon, 16 Dec 2019, 16:43 Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)= , <ketant@cisco.co= m> wrote:

Hi Mark,

The draft talks about "destination of the policy" as in the tail-= end node of the SR Policy. It does not talk about the destination IP addres= s in the packet.

You can consider this as a "default policy" on similar lines as a= default route.

Please see the section below which will cover one of the use-cases for stee= ring over such SR policies to the null endpoint.
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-= ietf-spring-segment-routing-policy-06#section-8.8.1

Hope that clarifies.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

I don't think it does.

=C2=A0

If this text is true - "The endpoint

=C2=A0 = =C2=A0is specified as an IPv4 or IPv6 address" - then those are illega= l IPv4 and IPv6 addresses.

=C2=A0

If thes= e are not being used as IPv4 or IPv6 addresses, then they cannot be referre= d to as IPv4 or IPv6 addresses. It is confusing and inaccurate if they are.=

=C2=A0


Thanks,
Ketan

-----Original Message-----
From: spring <spring-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Mark Smith
Sent: 16 December 2019 06:36
To: SPRING WG <spri= ng@ietf.org>
Cc: i-d-announce= @ietf.org
Subject: Re: [spring] I-D Action: draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-policy-= 06.txt

"The endpoint indicates the destination of the policy.=C2=A0 The endpo= int
=C2=A0 =C2=A0is specified as an IPv4 or IPv6 address and is expected to be = unique
=C2=A0 =C2=A0in the domain.=C2=A0 In a specific case (refer to Section 8.8.= 1), the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0endpoint can be the null address (0.0.0.0 for IPv4, ::0 for IP= v6)."

Per Internet Standard 3 / RFC 1122, 0.0.0.0 is an illegal IPv4 destination = address.*

Per RFC 4291, ::0 is an illegal IPv6 destination address.


Regards,
Mark.


*People doing tricky things with 0.0.0.0 has cost me and a past employer 2 = weeks of needless troubleshooting, delaying a product/service launch.

http://lists.ausnog.net/pipermail/ausnog/2017-July/039402= .html


On Mon, 16 Dec 2019 at 11:08, <internet-drafts@ietf.org> wrote:
>
>
> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts dir= ectories.
> This draft is a work item of the Source Packet Routing in Networking W= G of the IETF.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Title=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0: Segment Routing Policy Architecture
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Authors=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0: Clarence Filsfils
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Siva Sivabalan
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Daniel Voyer
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Alex Bogdanov
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Paul Mattes
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Filename=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 := draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-policy-06.txt
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Pages=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0: 35
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Date=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 : 2019-12-15
>
> Abstract:
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Segment Routing (SR) allows a headend node to steer a pac= ket flow
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 along any path.=C2=A0 Intermediate per-flow states are el= iminated thanks
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 to source routing.=C2=A0 The headend node steers a flow i= nto an SR Policy.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 The header of a packet steered in an SR Policy is augment= ed with an
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 ordered list of segments associated with that SR Policy.= =C2=A0 This
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 document details the concepts of SR Policy and steering i= nto an SR
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Policy.
>
>
>
> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-pol<= br> > icy/
>
> There are also htmlized versions available at:
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-policy-0<= br> > 6
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-spring-segment-routin<= br> > g-policy-06
>
> A diff from the previous version is available at:
> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-po
> licy-06
>
>
> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of
> submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
>
> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
> ftp:= //ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
>
> _______________________________________________
> spring mailing list
> spring@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring

_______________________________________________
spring mailing list
spring@ietf.org = https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring

_______________________________________________
spring mailing list
spring@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
--000000000000a9bda90599cfe94a-- From nobody Mon Dec 16 05:03:43 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40BC312084D for ; Mon, 16 Dec 2019 05:03:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -17.5 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-17.5 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, ENV_AND_HDR_SPF_MATCH=-0.5, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5, USER_IN_DEF_SPF_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=google.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gfQdmAj7Nyfb for ; Mon, 16 Dec 2019 05:03:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wr1-x42f.google.com (mail-wr1-x42f.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::42f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DE1E312084A for ; Mon, 16 Dec 2019 05:03:39 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wr1-x42f.google.com with SMTP id b6so7183147wrq.0 for ; Mon, 16 Dec 2019 05:03:39 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=pHKf+rFCyEkkkQsvy9uPQGJHpQnKmTOvo6hXjRmz/7g=; b=Zn6SGC7WDOztcDq+NboFTiWHp9AiFCT6Q/32JJNMLTRBYoBOsRTK5Nb94mBpS+jnMx rBuW1sIOgMbPu2Iy+LlFNgExuVqMhlHzuMM5vsDN4obe8fpVNDICCoPW2coQicMX8kHo evr9jUOgMC/y+SYvRY2nCaKZmr/8zfIpOIAC3qCKCbU/2epdRQXCMmBXqvMfG1W5emvX DfrWS+BLb9PzyCu/Ak0eCl6QbwvqiWHCihcrU0/Dvpn3O5XlMqoStEU3jtEI1Z35h56W oZNJ5ujjk6DLf/oZc8Wa2Kf+R+eFyMmct15pgzZ89mUC64eirysJWQGI5DWxZrzH+bhs 622g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=pHKf+rFCyEkkkQsvy9uPQGJHpQnKmTOvo6hXjRmz/7g=; b=aSbTb3Ze0n3xjIxPRTUnALVx4Hmrsoe0hO5BFoQ9xPp3Ouki/6PGNLDbq9FXYpWCl/ dH3FiTvCDcTrsFNp8RJOEEN9RPNXtcyLfW4scUNKJMW2fX7fMKvtB4imK1WuQGTewUZO odsplVBqTA8JrPMb9uZz7OOhIRyMB/yPcmaBnUaoDSyj5zHEeAApB32xzhrU/2lLu9yQ Gr/sm3glr0klJD5XeYBAJGlvVMGrP5r6ZDSgOuxjYk6eKZB0YdTU5xHf2bHG3uvEUp7d 37hhQ3dtMXGyXwVrZ1CYg4NKrybEQbUlz0YIxjZkvSWapbHmBg5C/2kik7C+VfjsSW0o 6MkA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUHVWunxOoX+X2D0ohDmiTO7jHoF24DmZsTy9mZkzKVCpwc08W6 10Ims9Z0wKCgSnrS6Usu2E5+5GNl73vwNqSKXDnw8A== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxgX/XOpcXJvRqhFzzR6Gqog6Giu/EERjJHOchxjupIbL+3BVPZyITyPT8K2KUntKQNArXLRlwHFom+xyNnqNQ= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6000:1241:: with SMTP id j1mr31804775wrx.26.1576501417958; Mon, 16 Dec 2019 05:03:37 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <26660_1575564615_5DE93547_26660_39_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D1A2A9@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: <26660_1575564615_5DE93547_26660_39_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D1A2A9@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> From: David Lebrun Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2019 13:03:26 +0000 Message-ID: To: bruno.decraene@orange.com Cc: SPRING WG List , draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000001c6000599d1d7a9" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] IPR poll for draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2019 13:03:42 -0000 --00000000000001c6000599d1d7a9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I=E2=80=99m not aware of any undisclosed IPR related to this document. On Thu, Dec 5, 2019 at 4:50 PM wrote: > Hi SPRING WG, > > In parallel to the WGLC for draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming, w= e > would like to poll for IPR. > > If you are aware of IPR that applies to > draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming [1] please respond to this > email. If you are aware of IPR, please indicate whether it has been > disclosed in accordance with IETF IPR rules (RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and > 5378 provide more details). > > If you are an *author or contributor* please respond to this email > regardless of whether or not you're aware of any IPR. > > This document will not advance until IPR confirmations have been received > from all authors and contributors. > > Thank you, > Bruno > > [1] > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-05 > > > > _________________________________________________________________________= ________________________________________________ > > Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations > confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc > pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez > recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler > a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages > electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, > Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme o= u > falsifie. Merci. > > This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged > information that may be protected by law; > they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. > If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and > delete this message and its attachments. > As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have bee= n > modified, changed or falsified. > Thank you. > > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > --00000000000001c6000599d1d7a9 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I=E2=80=99m not aware of any undisclosed=C2=A0IPR=C2=A0related to this document.

On Thu, Dec 5, 2= 019 at 4:50 PM <bruno.decra= ene@orange.com> wrote:
Hi SPRING WG,

In parallel to the WGLC for draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming, we = would like to poll for IPR.

If you are aware of IPR that applies to draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-prog= ramming [1] please respond to this email. If you are aware of IPR, please i= ndicate whether it has been
disclosed in accordance with IETF IPR rules (RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378= provide more details).

If you are an *author or contributor* please respond to this email regardle= ss of whether or not you're aware of any IPR.

This document will not advance until IPR confirmations have been received f= rom all authors and contributors.

Thank you,
Bruno

[1] https://tools.ietf.org/= html/draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-05


___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________

Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les message= s electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci.

This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law;
they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments.
As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been = modified, changed or falsified.
Thank you.

_______________________________________________
spring mailing list
spring@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
--00000000000001c6000599d1d7a9-- From nobody Mon Dec 16 06:34:28 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A9CB1200D6 for ; Mon, 16 Dec 2019 06:34:27 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.632 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.632 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TVjQpuHlgic9 for ; Mon, 16 Dec 2019 06:34:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from oxalide-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (oxalide-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr [132.168.224.13]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F15FB1200B1 for ; Mon, 16 Dec 2019 06:34:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by oxalide-sys.extra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id xBGEYODm001580 for ; Mon, 16 Dec 2019 15:34:24 +0100 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id E590B206437 for ; Mon, 16 Dec 2019 15:34:23 +0100 (CET) Received: from muguet2-smtp-out.intra.cea.fr (muguet2-smtp-out.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.13]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1B3A20637E for ; Mon, 16 Dec 2019 15:34:23 +0100 (CET) Received: from [10.8.35.150] (is154594.intra.cea.fr [10.8.35.150]) by muguet2-sys.intra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id xBGEYN4o007731 for ; Mon, 16 Dec 2019 15:34:23 +0100 From: Alexandre Petrescu To: SPRING WG email list References: Message-ID: Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2019 15:34:23 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: [spring] packet captures for draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-06? X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2019 14:34:27 -0000 Hi, SPRINGers, My comments on SRv6 relate to a worry about modifying packets in transit. In order to better explain myself, or maybe to remove the worry altogether, I would like to ask for packet dumps of SRv6. By looking at the packet contents that go into the network it is much easier to clarify and to avoid misunderstandings. Alex From nobody Mon Dec 16 06:35:38 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 694881200B1 for ; Mon, 16 Dec 2019 06:35:36 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.632 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.632 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 173zYPLA33dz for ; Mon, 16 Dec 2019 06:35:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from sainfoin-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (sainfoin-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr [132.167.192.228]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BFE8212007C for ; Mon, 16 Dec 2019 06:35:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by sainfoin-sys.extra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id xBGEZWeD000846 for ; Mon, 16 Dec 2019 15:35:32 +0100 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id 3888D206437 for ; Mon, 16 Dec 2019 15:35:32 +0100 (CET) Received: from muguet2-smtp-out.intra.cea.fr (muguet2-smtp-out.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.13]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E31A206037 for ; Mon, 16 Dec 2019 15:35:32 +0100 (CET) Received: from [10.8.35.150] (is154594.intra.cea.fr [10.8.35.150]) by muguet2-sys.intra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id xBGEZWge008632 for ; Mon, 16 Dec 2019 15:35:32 +0100 From: Alexandre Petrescu To: SPRING WG email list References: <3e31873a-278a-2154-0e71-4d820bba323d@gont.com.ar> <4012D854-2F10-4476-951D-FFFE73C5083C@gmail.com> <28214_1567694772_5D711FB4_28214_238_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48BFA9F3@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <129bbb32-0f14-b799-430c-8f76fb6b1279@gont.com.ar> <1824_1575998223_5DEFD30F_1824_112_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D24EBD@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <4384c08a-65f5-dbfb-85c7-8365feba9662@gmail.com> <11783_1576056453_5DF0B685_11783_221_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D261E9@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <260f6f3c-e3cc-e174-1782-456df7cded86@gmail.com> <8683D672-1A59-4253-AC46-14DD2D8C8B14@cisco.com> Message-ID: <76bc4985-6244-115f-9c3f-8fed96ef9772@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2019 15:35:32 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <8683D672-1A59-4253-AC46-14DD2D8C8B14@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Question about SRv6 Insert function X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2019 14:35:36 -0000 Hi, SPRINGers, This is my first post to this list. This is about draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-06 more precisely the T.Encaps section 5.2. Le 11/12/2019 à 21:05, Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril) a écrit : > Alex, > > The precise definition T.Encaps is done in section 5.1 [5.2 now] of > draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-06. If you have any > comment on such definition please let me know -on a separate thread > and directed to SPRING mailer-. Thank you for the reply. Please make the T.Encaps part of the draft easier for me to read, e.g.: -expand what it means 'S01'; is it 'Step 01', like in BASIC programming language? -clarify that the original packet in transit is not modified upon transition (modulo the Hop Limit field and the Segments Left field if present); new packet is created to carry the original packet - yes. -clarify what it means 'a packet (A, S2)(S3, S2, S1; SL=1)'; because it is confusing in several ways; (A,S2) invites to think it is src and dst addresses, but their place is switched (the normal order is Source, Destination). S in 'S2' might mean a Source Address but also might mean a Segment ID, or a Destination address. Confusion should be avoided, at least in my mind. Alex > > Many thanks, Pablo. > > -----Original Message----- From: ipv6 on > behalf of Alexandre Petrescu Date: > Wednesday, 11 December 2019 at 10:46 To: "ipv6@ietf.org" > Subject: Re: [spring] Question about SRv6 Insert > function > > > > Le 11/12/2019 à 10:27, bruno.decraene@orange.com a écrit : >> Brian, Pablo >> >> Please see inline (multiple points) >> >>> From: Brian E Carpenter [mailto:brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com] >>> Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2019 8:36 PM To: DECRAENE Bruno >>> TGI/OLN; Fernando Gont Cc: Ron Bonica; spring@ietf.org; >>> 6man@ietf.org; Suresh Krishnan; >>> draft-voyer-6man-extension-header-insertion; >>> draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming Subject: Re: [spring] >>> Question about SRv6 Insert function >>> >>> Bruno, >>> >>> On 11-Dec-19 06:17, bruno.decraene@orange.com wrote: >>>> Fernando, >>>> >>>>> From: Fernando Gont [mailto:fernando@gont.com.ar] Sent: >>>>> Monday, December 9, 2019 9:54 PM >>>>> >>>>> On 5/9/19 09:46, bruno.decraene@orange.com wrote: [....] >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Since there have been plenty of attempts to do EH >>>>>>> insertion or leave the IPv6 standard ambiguous in this >>>>>>> respect, and the IETF has had consensus that EH insertion >>>>>>> is not allowed, I think it would be bad, wastefull, >>>>>>> tricky, and even dangerous to let a document go through >>>>>>> the whole publication process, and just rely on the AD >>>>>>> to keep the "DISCUSS" button pressed. >>>>>> >>>>>> draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming has a normative >>>>>> reference to [I-D.voyer-6man-extension-header-insertion] >>>>>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-01#section-13.1 > >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> As such, from a process standpoint, it would not going to >>>>>> be published before >>>>>> [I-D.voyer-6man-extension-header-insertion] be itself >>>>>> published as RFC. And from its name, the latter is intended >>>>>> to be discussed and within control of the 6MAN WG. So I >>>>>> don't think that we can say that it "just rely on the AD to >>>>>> keep the "DISCUSS" button pressed." >>>>> >>>>> Yes, it is just relying on that. >>>> >>>> Situation has changed since this email: the network programming >>>> draft has now removed text related to SRH insertion. Please >>>> comment on the text if you see text related to SRH insertion. >>> >>> For example: >>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-05#section-8.2 > >>> > >> Quoting the draft for everyone to read " Every node is expected to >> advertise via BGP-LS its SRv6 capabilities (e.g. how many SIDs it >> can insert as part of a T.Encaps behavior)" >> >> >> This is related to T.Encaps which is using IPv6 (outer) >> encapsulation. > > The term 'IPv6 encapsulation' has a somehow precise meaning, see > below a citation from an RFC. > > Do you mean that T.Encaps 'encapsulates' just the SRv6 header or the > entire IPv6 packet that contains the SRv6 header? > > RFC2473: >> IPv6 encapsulation consists of prepending to the original packet >> an IPv6 header and, optionally, a set of IPv6 extension headers >> (see Fig.3), which are collectively called tunnel IPv6 headers. > > Alex > >> - If you believe that T.Encaps is unclear on that, please comment >> on its text. [1] - If the issue is the use of the term 'insert', >> which is too close to the 'SRH insertion issue', I'm personally >> fine with using a different term. E.g. "add". Please propose any >> term which suits you [1]. That been said, I hope that we are not in >> a situation where words are being forbidden. >> >> [1] Preferably in the related thread, in order to help everyone >> (all WG members, chairs, shepherds, ADs, IESG) to be able to track >> all comments. As we'll likely be in a situations where the number >> of emails may be consequent >> >>> Why would draft-voyer-6man-extension-header-insertion exists if >>> the SRH proponents do not intend to perform SRH insertion? >> >> As of today, the question been asked is a WG last call on >> draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming. If you want to secure >> that SRH insertion is not used in the document, please comment as >> part of its last call. >> >> That been said, thanks to your comment, I've seen an unused >> reference for [I-D.filsfils-spring-srv6-net-pgm-insertion] that >> needs to be removed >> >> --Bruno >> >> >>> >>> Brian >>> >>>> >>>>> A question of you as a chair: does the wg you chair publish >>>>> documents based on current specs (or at the very least based >>>>> on changes that are going to happen in the near term as a >>>>> result of *existing and proven consensus*), or does spring >>>>> ship documents that implicitly betting on changes that have >>>>> no consensus? >>>> >>>> In general, I don't see the benefit of sending a draft which we >>>> expect would never progress to RFC. So this would not be my >>>> preferred path. However, I guess that as always, there are >>>> exceptions and I'm not a priori aware of a process forbidding >>>> this. As of today, I'd rather not spend time on this >>>> hypothetical case. >>>> >>>>> The former is how I expect WGs to operate. The later shows a >>>>> clear path to a huge pile of documents stuck at IESG review, >>>>> simply because so later in the process folks found out that >>>>> the document turns out to violate existing specs. With the >>>>> risk of an AD pressing "YES", and hence IETF has been >>>>> circumvented. >>>> >>>> While IESG processing is beyond my paycheck (literally ;-) ), I >>>> trust the IESG. And I don't see a reason to doubt a priori. And >>>> even in this case, there may be a possibly to fetch back the >>>> document from the RFC editor queue. >>>> >>>> In short: very hypothetic case and beyond my hat. As of today, >>>> I'd propose that we work on the text of the document. >>>> >>>> Thank you, --Bruno >>>> >>>>> Thanks, -- Fernando Gont e-mail: fernando@gont.com.ar || >>>>> fgont@si6networks.com PGP Fingerprint: 7809 84F5 322E 45C7 >>>>> F1C9 3945 96EE A9EF D076 FFF1 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ > >>>> >>> >>>> Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des >>>> informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent >>>> donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. >>>> Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a >>>> l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les >>>> messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange >>>> decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, >>>> deforme ou falsifie. Merci. >>>> >>>> This message and its attachments may contain confidential or >>>> privileged information that may be protected by law; they >>>> should not be distributed, used or copied without >>>> authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please >>>> notify the sender and delete this message and its attachments. >>>> As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages >>>> that have been modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. >>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>> >>> IETF IPv6 working group mailing list >>>> ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>> >>> >> >> _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ > >> > >> Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations >> confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre >> diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu >> ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le >> detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques >> etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute >> responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. >> Merci. >> >> This message and its attachments may contain confidential or >> privileged information that may be protected by law; they should >> not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you >> have received this email in error, please notify the sender and >> delete this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, >> Orange is not liable for messages that have been modified, changed >> or falsified. Thank you. >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list >> ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative > Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Mon Dec 16 08:49:27 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1E79120052 for ; Mon, 16 Dec 2019 08:49:25 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.002 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.002 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5qPMoR_CBXmN for ; Mon, 16 Dec 2019 08:49:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from NAM02-SN1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-eopbgr770059.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.77.59]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3E71F120835 for ; Mon, 16 Dec 2019 08:49:23 -0800 (PST) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=Kn1808h2ClR7rV9rEvQvTtOZeXIMx78AC7NcvvczXZDCcSvFy5Q+yejbj/VJof19WuGSOXeieIKL1RlQU6AH3AnFxL0Wqu/vkeTcOSFyN8buMnjxqYhtwacnU6+8/hHLp1JHSUHUwDjMiNh77jje3KV6H5xFaYfVF3+duOnSA2xznZ4YvAW82Zi1rjRAxxM3/Mp+KG+UJcrQRR6tJgRRQJ9v3syUQtUyC5cCXj4Y1EMHhNReqJ+h2hVLE4vbQxyP1lxAe5fr4r0DoDaGz1ey9DL9vHYXC8O4oFtaflqqXu/Cui1+M+19SwmR+6v/y8yFEo7LYBtO7AOKtcLx4Jbk0A== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=u4kuJrqAARWkeEIK5jIsUj3FkItk72s0RYVuDFn31N0=; b=WQA2+sWgAh38URai+AllSTfFBSPqI5qtY+rb6SZz6ONoDfCrRLU/eoduLSczEc38sbPPciSmpLQUR9GJiibpAjPGnWuXs7LemNHJof2qCyorhz7UshfxqLyOU+hnncX3piCrlup8H1Q0tAmnmGK2SarWpqHqJv4f7Sem1ZzGMHA5an6whor36pk9vn4V28pVB44W1+Zyjiz7AgxFXq+KHG3mxI9gyuNVOCf0uB1ooTIlEvefj3ieWRgoHlfs96CDvrUdX/tbhS0ay4rmWly11YgNy6hhOAqt95zDVrPszx3GIrd/kEMJKCOF9u7C9ffm3ppS+YJJEK7MSonlY6DV0g== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=ericsson.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=ericsson.com; dkim=pass header.d=ericsson.com; arc=none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ericsson.com; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=u4kuJrqAARWkeEIK5jIsUj3FkItk72s0RYVuDFn31N0=; b=urXovTAwaFuVLwYonCIZ4caRY+X2fDKJees3p7ZEu+wbwPE5sQDP0Elv7thnF2x+iGmAWCp7XL8N+0Js+uJ9GYBU+Z3ExoKG65i7VlEpErM1Z5HR372zVYAkzGqf2DkFqwfg+sxDim8h/kGAbMLgZrmGTnP0Fw2hNaPhWN1vkIo= Received: from BYAPR15MB3078.namprd15.prod.outlook.com (20.178.239.16) by BYAPR15MB2600.namprd15.prod.outlook.com (20.179.155.161) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.2538.19; Mon, 16 Dec 2019 16:49:18 +0000 Received: from BYAPR15MB3078.namprd15.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::39e9:80ce:6440:fb45]) by BYAPR15MB3078.namprd15.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::39e9:80ce:6440:fb45%7]) with mapi id 15.20.2538.019; Mon, 16 Dec 2019 16:49:18 +0000 From: David Allan I To: "Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)" , "Xiejingrong (Jingrong)" , "Joel M. Halpern" , "spring@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [spring] Is srv6 PSP a good idea Thread-Index: AQHVr85kzx+ex1fgR0y5sqQsQB7yJqe0UwiAgAEL1gCAAaQccIACZxoAgAH8YmA= Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2019 16:49:18 +0000 Message-ID: References: <5c2a4b36-0c59-709e-23eb-00f4aa1ce52f@joelhalpern.com> <16253F7987E4F346823E305D08F9115AABAEB42B@nkgeml514-mbx.china.huawei.com> <21AFAEDA-F3B0-45AA-AE49-EB4E5FB73918@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=david.i.allan@ericsson.com; x-originating-ip: [71.204.184.241] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 543f34eb-23e1-4ca3-d402-08d78247e482 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: BYAPR15MB2600: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:8882; x-forefront-prvs: 02530BD3AA x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; 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From: Ron Bonica To: "Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)" , "Darren Dukes (ddukes)" CC: SPRING WG , Bob Hinden , Mark Smith Thread-Topic: [spring] SRv6 Network Programming and Link Local Source Addresses Thread-Index: AdWnvRd0lqtmH80YQu+C6Oz5BkM5rgA0iXcAAAHtYYAAAH2owAAAaB+AACLhNsAAAGgsgAAAEqowAMlT84AAAIgLcAClz+aAAACF7UAAbjlSgAAPzKzgAGM7moAAd3bogA== Content-Class: Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2019 20:39:52 +0000 Message-ID: References: <1E03C1DB-980A-4BFE-9DCD-56C26BDC8B77@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: msip_labels: MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_Enabled=True; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_SiteId=bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_Owner=rbonica@juniper.net; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_SetDate=2019-12-16T20:39:50.2127155Z; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_Name=Juniper Business Use Only; 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DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=q64J391uVYlOCWfSyE/7mhNX4S9aqophCx9NlO80vNA=; b=KNeoN8t8c3yj59v7ksiTTMk40ls/rat3l6gLAA8e3pDGZTWKizET2aIea/X06bcFfU R0CWuUrY7Lh57Eq5p5B7HYltveuJHyf/blmkWBsuJh1/dp88R5q7tixyntANL5RKJi6c MUbQMin9Da1yJVt2XCvMR4+UoXwtuZbE2eNe7rHRRt9K/dDsEd9Oq+W56zTMSi7Sz2oD 6xG/vFot0iyv+aYR/vf09GbR+2yJhPsf5rYJCBEafeARYrN6Mhzg+VF61yC0/GdahG8Q vB9NooHilXjCfqs7F5J7PUaWrDy4Vf95i5SWvsbb5hFHzJUqyMNcFETqsKXsgd0EEJVs QbsA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=q64J391uVYlOCWfSyE/7mhNX4S9aqophCx9NlO80vNA=; b=NFQhoQhllZSmGOxtJCWsDgkGdiJWL84Gra/P4bp0jCjdilH2fZ1VuUMQas9rb1ephb jkQUyOcDOQSk0TtkaQ8OYvg6ilrOZ9Q/GAcTCctweY5t9DUosTIyAnHC9kBhgn9IcCRl t7D2vHCAMh4tF5ZfojJN5y89zZM4WSSTQ0rxR96awoYn31Ua3wAZWd/Hoon5zLTxpmE5 4JlTsA3fmvyx9ShuyzIkhb79MidBx+o1n7C3jOQIDTuaFVoGOcFdkquvOBeXlUeP2pfB 1UmL8+DMLHI+M3xLdpYtX6e0IUAoTxWw1ouTe3tKSwQfunkYLS3LMBrxwaStNWU1Xg8W PXAQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUOBpYAtiKJ6F+TL7mBfapR5M7w0S7y44pc8BGt5J85HbhH/2hl 3W+2AOBzvwEhoedyleJmkFMABzb7RFbm25dg4FNneQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqx/7ZsQ5Z9yulww5UtNAWKCARFF1PRPlqLZl3ENkkVhQEAkBuNTV1bpMIuHN+figirUnNCJMX6tttKxHfob5sg= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6808:98d:: with SMTP id a13mr654183oic.7.1576531138436; Mon, 16 Dec 2019 13:18:58 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <157645488473.11514.14849824578103099190@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: From: Mark Smith Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2019 08:18:45 +1100 Message-ID: To: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" Cc: SPRING WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000007be18f0599d8c2b8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] I-D Action: draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-policy-06.txt X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2019 21:19:01 -0000 --0000000000007be18f0599d8c2b8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Mon, 16 Dec 2019, 21:07 Ketan Talaulikar (ketant), wrote: > Hi Mark, > > > > Could you share references which says it is illegal to refer to 0.0.0.0 or > :: as IP addresses? > > > > Many (if not most) implementations use these representations of IP > addresses when provisioning a default static route and there is nothing > wrong with doing so. > > > > The link you shared previously that indicated an issue because someone was > using these zero addresses as destination IP in the packets. That would be > an incorrect analogy since there is no such proposal in this document. > I read "end point" as a synonym for "destination". I don't see how it could be describing anything else. E.g., a tunnel "end point" IP address identifies where a tunnel finishes, and that is going result in that IP address placed in an outer tunnel packet's destination address field at some point in time. A destination address identifies the point at the end (end point) of a packet's path across the network. (In RFC8200 this is always a receiving host function, per RFC8200's definition of host and router.) 0.0.0.0 and ::0 are prohibited destination or end point addresses as the don't identify one - they're the 'unspecified' addresses. If, as Robert said, you're describing routes or prefixes, then that is the terminology that should be used. Supplying the prefix length in all instances would also make it much clearer that routes are being described. Regards, Mark. > > Thanks, > > Ketan > > > > *From:* Mark Smith > *Sent:* 16 December 2019 12:27 > *To:* Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) > *Cc:* SPRING WG ; i-d-announce@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: [spring] I-D Action: > draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-policy-06.txt > > > > > > On Mon, 16 Dec 2019, 16:43 Ketan Talaulikar (ketant), > wrote: > > Hi Mark, > > The draft talks about "destination of the policy" as in the tail-end node > of the SR Policy. It does not talk about the destination IP address in the > packet. > > You can consider this as a "default policy" on similar lines as a default > route. > > Please see the section below which will cover one of the use-cases for > steering over such SR policies to the null endpoint. > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-policy-06#section-8.8.1 > > Hope that clarifies. > > > > > > I don't think it does. > > > > If this text is true - "The endpoint > > is specified as an IPv4 or IPv6 address" - then those are illegal IPv4 > and IPv6 addresses. > > > > If these are not being used as IPv4 or IPv6 addresses, then they cannot be > referred to as IPv4 or IPv6 addresses. It is confusing and inaccurate if > they are. > > > > > Thanks, > Ketan > > -----Original Message----- > From: spring On Behalf Of Mark Smith > Sent: 16 December 2019 06:36 > To: SPRING WG > Cc: i-d-announce@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [spring] I-D Action: > draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-policy-06.txt > > "The endpoint indicates the destination of the policy. The endpoint > is specified as an IPv4 or IPv6 address and is expected to be unique > in the domain. In a specific case (refer to Section 8.8.1), the > endpoint can be the null address (0.0.0.0 for IPv4, ::0 for IPv6)." > > Per Internet Standard 3 / RFC 1122, 0.0.0.0 is an illegal IPv4 destination > address.* > > Per RFC 4291, ::0 is an illegal IPv6 destination address. > > > Regards, > Mark. > > > *People doing tricky things with 0.0.0.0 has cost me and a past employer 2 > weeks of needless troubleshooting, delaying a product/service launch. > > http://lists.ausnog.net/pipermail/ausnog/2017-July/039402.html > > > On Mon, 16 Dec 2019 at 11:08, wrote: > > > > > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts > directories. > > This draft is a work item of the Source Packet Routing in Networking WG > of the IETF. > > > > Title : Segment Routing Policy Architecture > > Authors : Clarence Filsfils > > Siva Sivabalan > > Daniel Voyer > > Alex Bogdanov > > Paul Mattes > > Filename : draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-policy-06.txt > > Pages : 35 > > Date : 2019-12-15 > > > > Abstract: > > Segment Routing (SR) allows a headend node to steer a packet flow > > along any path. Intermediate per-flow states are eliminated thanks > > to source routing. The headend node steers a flow into an SR Policy. > > The header of a packet steered in an SR Policy is augmented with an > > ordered list of segments associated with that SR Policy. This > > document details the concepts of SR Policy and steering into an SR > > Policy. > > > > > > > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-pol > > icy/ > > > > There are also htmlized versions available at: > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-policy-0 > > 6 > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-spring-segment-routin > > g-policy-06 > > > > A diff from the previous version is available at: > > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-po > > licy-06 > > > > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > > submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at > tools.ietf.org. > > > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > spring mailing list > > spring@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > > --0000000000007be18f0599d8c2b8 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable --0000000000007be18f0599d8c2b8-- From nobody Mon Dec 16 15:19:17 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ECA7F120045 for ; Mon, 16 Dec 2019 15:19:15 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Bm5SOAsvZb1g for ; Mon, 16 Dec 2019 15:19:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pl1-x632.google.com (mail-pl1-x632.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::632]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 237AC120043 for ; Mon, 16 Dec 2019 15:19:13 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pl1-x632.google.com with SMTP id az3so5161508plb.11 for ; Mon, 16 Dec 2019 15:19:13 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=date:from:to:cc:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject :mime-version; bh=YW/ZmUQn05HHSBx+vpO0J9DX38hJAXlaMZzv1olPyJY=; b=VvS4gRb5dolRS7vpMjxX4Xn0MPCqbfSnlY7YDGN1jZs5qOD1mcTLN+nXGSzV/0W6cP cRUpR8AvkFs4YzP/G/yXgO56rGZ8Cn39a76v5CwBe9hx25yJ4tYreQFWdJQe8qIUYjnK gOxu/vPkJLugAvYqJpwHg2ROECMuMqVU9NbKUnbiT7dLqWyTj5ytLQhqsWeExhQuKXWp eSRgPmns+bdsfkUmxsAVkOblN0OFL0Brqm3tVc2ZZA83CCBglb72lZVl1nYT6TOsgvGU vzaFNhObBE5nikYCYnQvHAAoyeFZ9h1bpQ9vlC7syZgseZZjgvEyCm6HMOtNIj1Orb9Y n4cg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:cc:message-id:in-reply-to :references:subject:mime-version; bh=YW/ZmUQn05HHSBx+vpO0J9DX38hJAXlaMZzv1olPyJY=; b=IlIKcjjwGpIx1c2v+XPBygaEk96k6xmn7NBSwj2WcMi410UmgQNl+KoI3KNHdLSnqE //JyD4TMv0oR21ceWdRaWvMxhAqdOJ7VphIvUsnmGpoWFLKib7dUh6tfQodg+iD4fosJ NbYV6LoZgPVeX1oxaSuG+3ni/bH5B/QqMiycpmwsWXq5AJfyqrBhVmv3NGcl+75Na1LE pi5f48OtkL/A53rpl3cB1y5JmKbQhbWGAH22Of0nlxuXEneZVoMCL4Floog4i5V6cDWy tnM/G0J+zY+0PdBNyvf8lhQ4sqOyfglE+15voP/r+sZ0g+NycF8MDK3M+xCGLp78dP80 EgKg== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVsWSgKSP50YAubitD7vqeWeXzs/k3Hus49Fq+7MSM7C5HLgyNk Eyy+jrm1MzEvDXEQnxZaaEccgtmb X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxvWWGdeNf4YVsuIUWs0olNxMTEnEYJsahFZ7e0u89BKtKHwl0rTQbyFM7ZHP2Iu3zHmzUqyA== X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:7bc3:: with SMTP id d3mr2397189pjl.86.1576538352432; Mon, 16 Dec 2019 15:19:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.5.5.194] ([50.235.77.202]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id k21sm23921377pgt.22.2019.12.16.15.19.11 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 16 Dec 2019 15:19:11 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2019 15:19:05 -0800 From: Jeff Tantsura To: Nat Kao , Gyan Mishra Cc: spring@ietf.org Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: <38b14bf5-b6d9-4d46-ad1d-d26d3376df51@Spark> X-Readdle-Message-ID: c8967bfb-5a8e-447d-8e28-314820764f13@Spark MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="5df810ee_c4c3af_872b" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Different MSDs for different traffic types on the same headend. X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2019 23:19:16 -0000 --5df810ee_c4c3af_872b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Gyan, MSD is only relevant for a device that either imposes the label stack (he= ad-end) or manipulates it (BSID anchor). There are some other constrains = when it comes to entropy labels and ERLD, please read the respective draf= ts. In general, SID stack would grow when TE is in use (any time you need to = use additional SID to deviate from SPT), another case is when additional = SID=E2=80=99s are used for services on the nodes, other than the tail-end= . That=E2=80=99s why we've designed MSD to be very flexible to accommodate = all the different use cases, it is upto computational logic to decide how= to deal with different constrains (MSD types) Cheers, Jeff P.S. you might want to see the NANOG MSD presentation I did some time ago= . https://pc.nanog.org/static/published/meetings/NANOG71/1424/20171004=5FTa= ntsura=5FThe=5FCritical=5FRole=5Fv1.pdf On Dec 14, 2019, 11:59 PM -0800, Gyan Mishra , w= rote: > Jeff > > With SR-MPLS with SR-TR let=E2=80=99s say if you use cSP=46 snd don=E2=80= =99t have an ERO strict explicit path defined or is a loose path, then th= e for the cSP=46 would the transport labels be 1.=C2=A0 =46or loose would= also be 1 also.=C2=A0 If the path were explicit defined to egress PE and= was 7 hops from ingress to egress then transport would be 6.=C2=A0 And i= f L3 vpn service sid was signaled that would be 1 vpn label. > > Let me know if I have that right. > > In Nats scenario for IPv6 he has 3 vpnv6 labels. > > Why is that=3F > > With both SR-MPLS and SRv6 the L3 vpn A=46I/SA=46I MBGP services overla= y single label sits on top off SR as if does today with MPLS so why 3 vpn= labels. > > So with this draft with BGP-LS and BMI-MSD you can flood into the IGP t= he SID depth so all the nodes along the SR-TE path don=E2=80=99t go over = the maximum which would result in an error. > > If you set your MTU high enough in the core like 9216, does that overco= me the SID depth issues with SR-TE=3F > > Warm=C2=A0regards, > > Gyan > > > On Sat, Dec 14, 2019 at 2:43 AM Nat Kao wrot= e: > > > Hi, Jeff. > > > > > > Thanks for the BMI-MSD reference. If I understand correctly: > > > > > > BMI-MSD =3D Transport Label Depth + Service Label Depth > > > Only former can be utilized by SR-TE policies. > > > > > > Currently do we have any method to determine the composition of BMI= =3F > > > We need to know the transport label depth when doing service route = per-destination steering. > > > > > > This problem arises when trying to steer a plain IPv4 route and a V= PN service route into the same SR-TE policy that exceeds the transport la= bel depth of the service route. I'm trying to figure out the standard beh= avior in this case since the headend we use currently produces some inter= esting results. > > > > > > Regards, > > > Nat. > > > > > > > On Sat, Dec 14, 2019 at 2:42 AM Jeff Tantsura wrote: > > > > > Hi Nat, > > > > > > > > > > Please read=C2=A0https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8491=23section-= 5 > > > > > Currently defined MSD types are: > > > > > 1: BMI > > > > > 2: ERLD > > > > > > > > > > Specifically to BMI: > > > > > Base MPLS Imposition MSD (BMI-MSD) signals the total number of = MPLS=C2=A0labels that can be imposed, including all service/transport/spe= cial=C2=A0labels. > > > > > The answer to your question is 6 > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > Jeff > > > > > On Dec 13, 2019, 3:42 AM -0800, Nat Kao , wrote: > > > > > > Hello, SPRING WG. > > > > > > > > > > > > How do we deal with an SR-TE policy headend with different MS= Ds for different types of traffic=3F > > > > > > =46or example, a headend H can impose: > > > > > > 6 transport labels for plain IPv4 packets; > > > > > > 5 transport labels + 1 IPv6 ExpNull label for plain IPv6 pack= ets; > > > > > > 3 transport labels=C2=A0+ 3 VPN=C2=A0 labels for VPN packets.= > > > > > > > > > > > > a) =46or a plain IPv4 route R4 and a VPN route Rv both steere= d into the SR-TE policy P1 with SID list , what will = H perform in this situation=3F > > > > > > b) What is the MSD of H=3F 6, 5 or 3=3F > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Nat. > > > > > > =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F > > > > > > spring mailing list > > > > > > spring=40ietf.org > > > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > > > =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F > > > spring mailing list > > > spring=40ietf.org > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > -- > Gyan S. Mishra > IT Network Engineering & Technology > Verizon Communications=C2=A0Inc. (VZ) > 13101 Columbia Pike =46DC1 3rd =46loor > Silver Spring, MD 20904 > United States > Phone:=C2=A0301 502-1347 > Email:=C2=A0gyan.s.mishra=40verizon.com > www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies-consultant > --5df810ee_c4c3af_872b Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline
Gyan,

MSD is only relevant for a device that either impos= es the label stack (head-end) or manipulates it (BSID anchor). There are = some other constrains when it comes to entropy labels and ERLD, please re= ad the respective drafts.
In general, SID stack would grow when TE is in use = (any time you need to use additional SID to deviate from SPT), another ca= se is when additional SID=E2=80=99s are used for services on the nodes, o= ther than the tail-end.
That=E2=80=99s why we've designed MSD to be very fl= exible to accommodate all the different use cases, it is upto computation= al logic to decide how to deal with different constrains (MSD types)&=231= 60;

Cheers,
Jeff

P.S. you might want to see the NANOG MSD presentati= on I did some time ago.
On Dec 14, 2019, 11:59 PM -0800, Gy= an Mishra <hayabusagsm=40gmail.com>, wrote:
Jeff

With SR-MPLS with SR-TR let=E2=80=99s say if you us= e cSP=46 snd don=E2=80=99t have an ERO strict explicit path defined or is= a loose path, then the for the cSP=46 would the transport labels be 1.&=23= 160; =46or loose would also be 1 also.&=23160; If the path were explicit = defined to egress PE and was 7 hops from ingress to egress then transport= would be 6.&=23160; And if L3 vpn service sid was signaled that would be= 1 vpn label. &=23160;

Let me know if I have that right. &=23160;

In Nats scenario for IPv6 he has 3 vpnv6 labels. &=23= 160;

Why is that=3F &=23160;

With both SR-MPLS and SRv6 the L3 vpn A=46I/SA=46I = MBGP services overlay single label sits on top off SR as if does today wi= th MPLS so why 3 vpn labels.

So with this draft with BGP-LS and BMI-MSD you can = flood into the IGP the SID depth so all the nodes along the SR-TE path do= n=E2=80=99t go over the maximum which would result in an error.

If you set your MTU high enough in the core like 92= 16, does that overcome the SID depth issues with SR-TE=3F

Warm&=23160;regards,

Gyan

On Sat, Dec 14, 2019 at 2= :43 AM Nat Kao <lekao=40= pyxisworks.org> wrote:
Hi, Jeff.

Thanks for the BMI-MSD reference. If I understand correctly:

BMI-MSD =3D Transport Label Depth + Service Label Depth
Only former can be utilized by SR-TE policies.

Currently do we have any method to determine the composition of BMI=3F=
We need to know the transport label depth when doing service route p= er-destination steering.

This problem arises when trying to steer a plain IPv4 route and a VP= N service route into the same SR-TE policy that exceeds the transport lab= el depth of the service route. I'm trying to figure out the standard beha= vior in this case since the headend we use currently produces some intere= sting results.

Regards,
Nat.

On Sat, Dec 14, 2019 at 2= :42 AM Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf=40gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Nat,

Currently defined MSD types are:&=23160;
1: BMI
2: ERLD

Specifically to BMI:
Base MPLS Imposition MSD (BMI-MSD) signals the tota= l number of MPLS&=23160;labels that can be imposed, including all s= ervice/transport/special&=23160;labels.
The answer to your question is 6
=

Cheers,
Jeff
On Dec 13, 2019, 3:42 AM -0800, Nat= Kao <lekao=40pyxisworks.org>, wrote:
Hello, SPRING WG.

How do we deal with an SR-TE policy headend with different MSDs for diffe= rent types of traffic=3F
=46or example, a headend H can impose:
6 transport labels for plain IPv4 packets;
5 transport labels + 1 IPv6 ExpNull label for plain IPv6 packets;
3 transport labels&=23160;+ 3 VPN&=23160; labels for VPN packets.

a) =46or a plain IPv4 route R4 and a VPN route Rv both steered into the S= R-TE policy P1 with SID list <S1, S2, S3, S4, S5>, what will H perf= orm in this situation=3F
b) What is the MSD of H=3F 6, 5 or 3=3F

Thanks,
Nat.
=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F
spring mailing list
spring=40= ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F
spring mailing list
spring=40= ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/= spring
--

Gyan S. Mishra

IT Network Engineering & Technology&=23= 160;

Verizon Communications&=23160;Inc. (VZ)

13101 Columbia Pike =46DC1 3rd =46loor

Silver Spring, MD 20904

United States

Phone:&=23160;301 502-1347

Email:&=23160;gyan.s.mishra=40verizon.com<= span>

www.linkedin.com= /in/networking-technologies-consultant


--5df810ee_c4c3af_872b-- From nobody Mon Dec 16 17:25:45 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7DE4912096B for ; Mon, 16 Dec 2019 17:25:43 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.997 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.997 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, FREEMAIL_REPLY=1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 731GoT07Nsa5 for ; Mon, 16 Dec 2019 17:25:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-io1-xd31.google.com (mail-io1-xd31.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d31]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AA4AB12090A for ; Mon, 16 Dec 2019 17:25:41 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-io1-xd31.google.com with SMTP id k24so7525650ioc.4 for ; Mon, 16 Dec 2019 17:25:41 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=oP00QHkL4f46D7iUC3xSM61YZtGjRyKODRGKjFA/euE=; b=o60dEYnVe/+ATc9DDXococuqXpzr2xBQ3BQ905l2PBEls6J6ex2/nCf92KviqJanc3 iEbVfbrKcBtCkmgAPpYHpbeMBx88RfrrlJdIDCdCLz+7UpTI0aaupNJLdGpevfRbQ92U UFb5Oe72mkg1SL6Woyt/sJ1dzJST2YqhDVbPBsT4xqD0rRsLREVXWCes7q/ALzzAHOre /N+R8FZedkABaWkeQGI/zox1axfe7On/NSOUxtEzxZBrhNYoL59LQiTa6sFjX7Xvqkb4 2a4xrrT5R4BBoiSgj7cEAadFLLJJgP2E/y68g/gRtLyiH76aygsxzBIpDe373RxvA9ul k+cA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=oP00QHkL4f46D7iUC3xSM61YZtGjRyKODRGKjFA/euE=; b=jCe//NhCNsxVu23hqS3SkQJEQ09ICAblSMd8qNQMFcSCxKod+PgBYgj+bEkXtDLLCO CWSGWVGc+SGpI+CniMY+0WKlFK8OmAn185zR4fiGpxQs/Pbxc09UVWK4Ao3Z+Vlp6R5y v5i77dzWizMjfjrutIlITWYIjqE6aJ8ALsMrCvRW6Z1r8tE9cQOZ6pIcFBgCvIK7eK3i EzpVOSWgSfjUTCngYZj2L+aQleNuPM6hMZxmKuKh0cWDdsbHDTIXhSMGHJURQ8tQnnE6 /mFgngEXlAsRoIMEkYCH4yp7nOE68pnqQnBUr4yyr6uJgHDL1els/C9wkxqbHSPvWRFX bUVQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXS6VLmC0YzLOzqRJFO5H0qk1lofl9Qa/sxYk6oFgGjJg5CeqYZ 8FZC4aEc+O1JwqaxN5c16Es7Y0Hpw5qmcIvgfrU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxh2SDWDxrbMqGd6o91cAmkNkr29Tcdhmgotu6aFh/WvHQiUNeB4rf8VEnK74E+J9oE0g3yGiko4T1tHT3NBBM= X-Received: by 2002:a5e:8505:: with SMTP id i5mr1752662ioj.158.1576545940739; Mon, 16 Dec 2019 17:25:40 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <38b14bf5-b6d9-4d46-ad1d-d26d3376df51@Spark> In-Reply-To: From: Gyan Mishra Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2019 20:25:29 -0500 Message-ID: To: Jeff Tantsura Cc: Nat Kao , spring@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000c51e220599dc341c" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Different MSDs for different traffic types on the same headend. X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2019 01:25:44 -0000 --000000000000c51e220599dc341c Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks Jeff!! Both SR-MPLS & SRv6 in general I am guessing most deployments have been centralized controller based model to take advantage of PCEP and SR-TE policy as necessary automatically instead of statically defined explicit paths. For small deployments I guess you could get away with non controller based deployments. The MSD limit does seem low even with proprietary asic 4-10 seems low. Is the limiting factor with MSD the ASIC merchant or proprietary. What is the MTU of the packet when you hit 10 hops or 10 adjacencies SIDS? Also if you are doing tunnel stitching using BSID the MSD limit gets worse. Sounds like SR-TE has a way to go on the asic side to support very long explicit paths. Warm regards, Gyan On Mon, Dec 16, 2019 at 6:19 PM Jeff Tantsura wrote: > Gyan, > > MSD is only relevant for a device that either imposes the label stack > (head-end) or manipulates it (BSID anchor). There are some other constrai= ns > when it comes to entropy labels and ERLD, please read the respective draf= ts. > In general, SID stack would grow when TE is in use (any time you need to > use additional SID to deviate from SPT), another case is when additional > SID=E2=80=99s are used for services on the nodes, other than the tail-end= . > That=E2=80=99s why we've designed MSD to be very flexible to accommodate = all the > different use cases, it is upto computational logic to decide how to deal > with different constrains (MSD types) > > Cheers, > Jeff > > P.S. you might want to see the NANOG MSD presentation I did some time ago= . > > https://pc.nanog.org/static/published/meetings/NANOG71/1424/20171004_Tant= sura_The_Critical_Role_v1.pdf > On Dec 14, 2019, 11:59 PM -0800, Gyan Mishra , > wrote: > > Jeff > > With SR-MPLS with SR-TR let=E2=80=99s say if you use cSPF snd don=E2=80= =99t have an ERO > strict explicit path defined or is a loose path, then the for the cSPF > would the transport labels be 1. For loose would also be 1 also. If the > path were explicit defined to egress PE and was 7 hops from ingress to > egress then transport would be 6. And if L3 vpn service sid was signaled > that would be 1 vpn label. > > Let me know if I have that right. > > In Nats scenario for IPv6 he has 3 vpnv6 labels. > > Why is that? > > With both SR-MPLS and SRv6 the L3 vpn AFI/SAFI MBGP services overlay > single label sits on top off SR as if does today with MPLS so why 3 vpn > labels. > > So with this draft with BGP-LS and BMI-MSD you can flood into the IGP the > SID depth so all the nodes along the SR-TE path don=E2=80=99t go over the= maximum > which would result in an error. > > If you set your MTU high enough in the core like 9216, does that overcome > the SID depth issues with SR-TE? > > Warm regards, > > Gyan > > On Sat, Dec 14, 2019 at 2:43 AM Nat Kao wrote: > >> Hi, Jeff. >> >> Thanks for the BMI-MSD reference. If I understand correctly: >> >> BMI-MSD =3D Transport Label Depth + Service Label Depth >> Only former can be utilized by SR-TE policies. >> >> Currently do we have any method to determine the composition of BMI? >> We need to know the transport label depth when doing service route >> per-destination steering. >> >> This problem arises when trying to steer a plain IPv4 route and a VPN >> service route into the same SR-TE policy that exceeds the transport labe= l >> depth of the service route. I'm trying to figure out the standard behavi= or >> in this case since the headend we use currently produces some interestin= g >> results. >> >> Regards, >> Nat. >> >> On Sat, Dec 14, 2019 at 2:42 AM Jeff Tantsura > > wrote: >> >>> Hi Nat, >>> >>> Please read https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8491#section-5 >>> Currently defined MSD types are: >>> 1: BMI >>> 2: ERLD >>> >>> Specifically to BMI: >>> Base MPLS Imposition MSD (BMI-MSD) signals the total number of MPLS lab= els >>> that can be imposed, including all service/transport/special labels. >>> The answer to your question is 6 >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Jeff >>> On Dec 13, 2019, 3:42 AM -0800, Nat Kao , wrote: >>> >>> Hello, SPRING WG. >>> >>> How do we deal with an SR-TE policy headend with different MSDs for >>> different types of traffic? >>> For example, a headend H can impose: >>> 6 transport labels for plain IPv4 packets; >>> 5 transport labels + 1 IPv6 ExpNull label for plain IPv6 packets; >>> 3 transport labels + 3 VPN labels for VPN packets. >>> >>> a) For a plain IPv4 route R4 and a VPN route Rv both steered into the >>> SR-TE policy P1 with SID list , what will H perform= in >>> this situation? >>> b) What is the MSD of H? 6, 5 or 3? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Nat. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> spring mailing list >>> spring@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> spring mailing list >> spring@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring >> > -- > > Gyan S. Mishra > > IT Network Engineering & Technology > > Verizon Communications Inc. (VZ) > > 13101 Columbia Pike > > FDC1 3rd Floor > > Silver Spring, MD 20904 > > United States > > Phone: 301 502-1347 > > Email: gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com > > www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies-consultant > > -- Gyan S. Mishra IT Network Engineering & Technology Verizon Communications Inc. (VZ) 13101 Columbia Pike FDC1 3rd Floor Silver Spring, MD 20904 United States Phone: 301 502-1347 Email: gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies-consultant --000000000000c51e220599dc341c Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks Jeff!!

Both SR-MPLS & SRv6 in general I am guessing most de= ployments have been centralized controller based model to take advantage of= PCEP =C2=A0and SR-TE policy as necessary automatically instead of statical= ly defined explicit paths. =C2=A0

For small deployments I guess you could get away with non control= ler based deployments.

T= he MSD limit does seem low even with proprietary asic 4-10 seems low. =C2= =A0

Is the limiting fact= or with MSD the ASIC merchant or proprietary. =C2=A0

What is the MTU of the packet when you hit 10 = hops or 10 adjacencies SIDS? =C2=A0

Also if you are doing tunnel stitching using BSID the MSD limit= gets worse.

Sounds like= SR-TE has a way to go on the asic side to support very long explicit paths= .

Warm regards,

Gyan

On Mon, Dec 16, 2019 at= 6:19 PM Jeff Tantsura <jefft= ant.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:
Gyan,

MSD is only relevant for a device that either imposes the= label stack (head-end) or manipulates it (BSID anchor). There are some oth= er constrains when it comes to entropy labels and ERLD, please read the res= pective drafts.
In general, SID stack would grow when TE is in use (any t= ime you need to use additional SID to deviate from SPT), another case is wh= en additional SID=E2=80=99s are used for services on the nodes, other than = the tail-end.
That=E2=80=99s why we've designed MSD to be very flex= ible to accommodate all the different use cases, it is upto computational l= ogic to decide how to deal with different constrains (MSD types)=C2=A0

Cheers,
Jeff

P.S. you might want to see the NANOG MSD presentation I d= id some time ago.
On Dec 14, 2019, 11:59 PM -0800, Gyan Mis= hra <hayabusa= gsm@gmail.com>, wrote:
Jeff

With SR-MPLS with SR-TR let=E2=80=99s say if you use cSPF= snd don=E2=80=99t have an ERO strict explicit path defined or is a loose p= ath, then the for the cSPF would the transport labels be 1.=C2=A0 For loose= would also be 1 also.=C2=A0 If the path were explicit defined to egress PE= and was 7 hops from ingress to egress then transport would be 6.=C2=A0 And= if L3 vpn service sid was signaled that would be 1 vpn label. =C2=A0

Let me know if I have that right. =C2=A0

In Nats scenario for IPv6 he has 3 vpnv6 labels. =C2=A0

Why is that? =C2=A0

With both SR-MPLS and SRv6 the L3 vpn AFI/SAFI MBGP servi= ces overlay single label sits on top off SR as if does today with MPLS so w= hy 3 vpn labels.

So with this draft with BGP-LS and BMI-MSD you can flood = into the IGP the SID depth so all the nodes along the SR-TE path don=E2=80= =99t go over the maximum which would result in an error.

If you set your MTU high enough in the core like 9216, do= es that overcome the SID depth issues with SR-TE?

Warm=C2=A0regards,

Gyan

On Sat, Dec 14, 2019 at 2:43 AM Nat K= ao <lekao@pyxi= sworks.org> wrote:
Hi, Jeff.

Thanks for the BMI-MSD reference. If I understand correctly:

BMI-MSD =3D Transport Label Depth + Service Label Depth
Only former can be utilized by SR-TE policies.

Currently do we have any method to determine the composition of BMI?
We need to know the transport label depth when doing service route per= -destination steering.

This problem arises when trying to steer a plain IPv4 route and a VPN = service route into the same SR-TE policy that exceeds the transport label d= epth of the service route. I'm trying to figure out the standard behavi= or in this case since the headend we use currently produces some interestin= g results.

Regards,
Nat.

On Sat, Dec 14, 2019 at 2:42 AM Jeff = Tantsura <= jefftant.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Nat,

Currently defined MSD types are:=C2=A0
1: BMI
2: ERLD

Specifically to BMI:
Base MPLS Imposition MSD (BMI-MSD) signals the total numb= er of MPLS=C2=A0labels that can be imposed, including all service/tra= nsport/special=C2=A0labels.
The answer to your question is 6

Cheers,
Jeff
On Dec 13, 2019, 3:42 AM -0800, Nat Kao &= lt;lekao@pyxiswor= ks.org>, wrote:
Hello, SPRING WG.

How do we deal with an SR-TE policy headend with different MSDs for differe= nt types of traffic?
For example, a headend H can impose:
6 transport labels for plain IPv4 packets;
5 transport labels + 1 IPv6 ExpNull label for plain IPv6 packets;
3 transport labels=C2=A0+ 3 VPN=C2=A0 labels for VPN packets.

a) For a plain IPv4 route R4 and a VPN route Rv both steered into the SR-TE= policy P1 with SID list <S1, S2, S3, S4, S5>, what will H perform in= this situation?
b) What is the MSD of H? 6, 5 or 3?

Thanks,
Nat.
_______________________________________________
spring mailing list
spring@ietf.org = https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
_______________________________________________
spring mailing list
spring@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
--

Gyan S. Mishra

IT Network Engineering & Technology=C2=A0

Verizon Communications=C2=A0Inc. (VZ)

13101 Columbia Pike FDC1 3rd Flo= or

Silver Spring, MD 20904

United StatesPhone:=C2=A0301 502-1347

Email:=C2=A0gyan.s.mis= hra@verizon.com

www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies-consul= tant


--
<= div dir=3D"ltr">

Gyan S. Mishra

IT Networ= k Engineering & Technology=C2=A0=

Verizon Communications=C2=A0Inc. (VZ)=

13101 Columbia Pike FDC1 3rd Floor

=

Silver Spring, MD 20904

United States<= span style=3D"color:rgb(80,0,80);background-image:initial;background-positi= on:initial;background-repeat:initial">

Phone:=C2=A0301 502-1347

Email:=C2=A0gyan.s.mishra@verizon.= com

www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies-co= nsultant


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h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=sWp6mUKqPYJo2Zpuh0Cj3S2HJVakVhOP0krzuBdqDsY=; b=BkjIebtJiKjHTs/DTM1cMoP6ZxL+JUiMha4uIRgMPM/xLeQMqntnGGWBYim1v/Dedd EDKiRqamX/RxwXHZhfdY0x6s1nfjas7MQl74a/xupiIfgApTntukhMhmDklVB6/bXQvr 7a7HkRsSzUw6ffnQhoVdRrShx2fVcj3G2qo76KwlCyOqHZQccfO07IJ4ifrJ9naL7jB7 H2nZ0mvx0whiKFc/tRNbcoXaNPhB6+CUsfiyeYr+tMqbZijeK89NaBDK0M7hHMhAcL0a W0S1BpHNpVew4yMhW95OR1p2dW/3kN7f7C/teIeYlgj9Lp1c1hif+s9jqcbzRJwNS3QQ jS6g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=sWp6mUKqPYJo2Zpuh0Cj3S2HJVakVhOP0krzuBdqDsY=; b=fC+A5spHKlWZ2YkWN4+FmYpn4Q8Ler/Db+LtwXqgOQ7DAivkN0ctDbanzcT7iB+H+V joTpC1pX8aKI4wojfcxXGzVum/Ai0V8jhR409Aa4ZlKODRtIGa2D7+Vp1XVkyhMtErAS pcoTEOYbQdEEuGJcE2ZdJFzUgWJJ0SklgmFy0eCE785xp7yhRjzXFtyIG+GhISf++a8O c4TfsR0yr2R7bC7qCCevW8WHb5P9CmpPAyx08zNPQuANIIz+lbBpt8nVyclwrVuUnvMN Tbv06lNJ9FXpM7DP1XiJk145xoy3eNRtyO6+uZyFI9xvwaKiFIvyJg/R6QuNtIkT4FAQ 9E9A== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWsQDo6RJ3JgER+sDftnTJm57tFA0BsSpmapzFPZM8schLZs7+1 4/StErs2R40VXoYuJpmuL2tNhKtNAGw21rI3g9uB6idQoOk= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxkN2kghFYIgQjUi4BfLMOvPOi7cSqiCP6T1iQjtaeoLn+cNRh3L5qUwtbZd95cYy/0lAxVsrT3BpreA9VmuSw= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6808:658:: with SMTP id z24mr1151887oih.91.1576559124740; Mon, 16 Dec 2019 21:05:24 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <38b14bf5-b6d9-4d46-ad1d-d26d3376df51@Spark> In-Reply-To: From: Nat Kao Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2019 13:05:13 +0800 Message-ID: To: spring@ietf.org Cc: Nat Kao Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000990f7f0599df46c9" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Different MSDs for different traffic types on the same headend. X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2019 05:05:29 -0000 --000000000000990f7f0599df46c9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Jeff. Consider a headend that can perform 1 of the following 2 modes(but not both): 1) Plain IPv4: 6 transport labels + 0 service label =3D> traffic can be steered into a 6-label SR-TE policy. 2) Any type of VPN: 3 transport labels + 1~3 service labels =3D> traffic cannot be steered into a 6-label SR-TE policy. a) As defined in RFC8491, the BMI-MSD is 6 for this headend. Do we have a standardized way to signal the transport label depth in mode 2? Maybe in a different MSD type? b) Since plain IPv4 and VPN routes can be steered into the same SR-TE policy, do we have a standardized headend behavior in this situation? (Should I open a new thread to discuss this? It seems not quite MSD-relative.) Thanks. Nat On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 11:14 AM Nat Kao wrote: > Hi, Jeff. > > Consider a headend that can perform 1 of the following 2 modes(but not > both): > 1) Plain IPv4: 6 transport labels + 0 service label =3D> traffic can be > steered into a 6-label SR-TE policy. > 2) Any type of VPN: 3 transport labels + 1~3 service labels =3D> traffic > cannot be steered into a 6-label SR-TE policy. > > a) As defined in RFC8491, the BMI-MSD is 6 for this headend. Do we have a > standardized way to signal the transport label depth in mode 2? > Maybe in a different MSD type? > b) Since plain IPv4 and VPN routes can be steered into the same SR-TE > policy, do we have a standardized headend behavior in this situation? > (Should I open a new thread to discuss this? It seems not quite > MSD-relative.) > > Thanks. > Nat. > > > On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 7:19 AM Jeff Tantsura > wrote: > >> Gyan, >> >> MSD is only relevant for a device that either imposes the label stack >> (head-end) or manipulates it (BSID anchor). There are some other constra= ins >> when it comes to entropy labels and ERLD, please read the respective dra= fts. >> In general, SID stack would grow when TE is in use (any time you need to >> use additional SID to deviate from SPT), another case is when additional >> SID=E2=80=99s are used for services on the nodes, other than the tail-en= d. >> That=E2=80=99s why we've designed MSD to be very flexible to accommodate= all the >> different use cases, it is upto computational logic to decide how to dea= l >> with different constrains (MSD types) >> >> Cheers, >> Jeff >> >> P.S. you might want to see the NANOG MSD presentation I did some time ag= o. >> >> https://pc.nanog.org/static/published/meetings/NANOG71/1424/20171004_Tan= tsura_The_Critical_Role_v1.pdf >> On Dec 14, 2019, 11:59 PM -0800, Gyan Mishra , >> wrote: >> >> Jeff >> >> With SR-MPLS with SR-TR let=E2=80=99s say if you use cSPF snd don=E2=80= =99t have an ERO >> strict explicit path defined or is a loose path, then the for the cSPF >> would the transport labels be 1. For loose would also be 1 also. If th= e >> path were explicit defined to egress PE and was 7 hops from ingress to >> egress then transport would be 6. And if L3 vpn service sid was signale= d >> that would be 1 vpn label. >> >> Let me know if I have that right. >> >> In Nats scenario for IPv6 he has 3 vpnv6 labels. >> >> Why is that? >> >> With both SR-MPLS and SRv6 the L3 vpn AFI/SAFI MBGP services overlay >> single label sits on top off SR as if does today with MPLS so why 3 vpn >> labels. >> >> So with this draft with BGP-LS and BMI-MSD you can flood into the IGP th= e >> SID depth so all the nodes along the SR-TE path don=E2=80=99t go over th= e maximum >> which would result in an error. >> >> If you set your MTU high enough in the core like 9216, does that overcom= e >> the SID depth issues with SR-TE? >> >> Warm regards, >> >> Gyan >> >> On Sat, Dec 14, 2019 at 2:43 AM Nat Kao wrote: >> >>> Hi, Jeff. >>> >>> Thanks for the BMI-MSD reference. If I understand correctly: >>> >>> BMI-MSD =3D Transport Label Depth + Service Label Depth >>> Only former can be utilized by SR-TE policies. >>> >>> Currently do we have any method to determine the composition of BMI? >>> We need to know the transport label depth when doing service route >>> per-destination steering. >>> >>> This problem arises when trying to steer a plain IPv4 route and a VPN >>> service route into the same SR-TE policy that exceeds the transport lab= el >>> depth of the service route. I'm trying to figure out the standard behav= ior >>> in this case since the headend we use currently produces some interesti= ng >>> results. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Nat. >>> >>> On Sat, Dec 14, 2019 at 2:42 AM Jeff Tantsura >> > wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Nat, >>>> >>>> Please read https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8491#section-5 >>>> Currently defined MSD types are: >>>> 1: BMI >>>> 2: ERLD >>>> >>>> Specifically to BMI: >>>> Base MPLS Imposition MSD (BMI-MSD) signals the total number of MPLS la= bels >>>> that can be imposed, including all service/transport/special labels. >>>> The answer to your question is 6 >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Jeff >>>> On Dec 13, 2019, 3:42 AM -0800, Nat Kao , wrote: >>>> >>>> Hello, SPRING WG. >>>> >>>> How do we deal with an SR-TE policy headend with different MSDs for >>>> different types of traffic? >>>> For example, a headend H can impose: >>>> 6 transport labels for plain IPv4 packets; >>>> 5 transport labels + 1 IPv6 ExpNull label for plain IPv6 packets; >>>> 3 transport labels + 3 VPN labels for VPN packets. >>>> >>>> a) For a plain IPv4 route R4 and a VPN route Rv both steered into the >>>> SR-TE policy P1 with SID list , what will H perfor= m in >>>> this situation? >>>> b) What is the MSD of H? 6, 5 or 3? >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Nat. >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> spring mailing list >>>> spring@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>> spring mailing list >>> spring@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring >>> >> -- >> >> Gyan S. Mishra >> >> IT Network Engineering & Technology >> >> Verizon Communications Inc. (VZ) >> >> 13101 Columbia Pike FDC1 3rd Floor >> >> Silver Spring, MD 20904 >> >> United States >> >> Phone: 301 502-1347 >> >> Email: gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com >> >> www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies-consultant >> >> --000000000000990f7f0599df46c9 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi, Jeff.
Consider a headend that can perform 1 of the following 2 modes(= but not both):
1) Plain IPv4: 6 transport labels + 0 service label= =3D> traffic can be steered into a 6-label SR-TE policy.
2) An= y type of VPN: 3 transport labels + 1~3 service labels =3D> traffic cann= ot be steered into a 6-label SR-TE policy.

a) As defined in RFC8491, the BMI-MSD is 6 for this headend. Do we have a=20 standardized way to signal the transport label depth in mode 2?
=C2=A0=C2=A0 Maybe in a different MSD type?
b) Since plain IPv4 and VPN routes can be steered into the same SR-TE=20 policy, do we have a standardized headend behavior in this situation?
=C2=A0=C2=A0 (Should I open a new thread to discuss this? It seems not = quite MSD-relative.)

Thanks= .
Nat<= br>

On Tue, Dec 17, 201= 9 at 11:14 AM Nat Kao <lekao@pyx= isworks.org> wrote:
Hi, Jeff.

=
Consider a headend that can perform 1 of the following 2 modes(but no= t both):
1) Plain IPv4: 6 transport labels + 0 service label =3D&g= t; traffic can be steered into a 6-label SR-TE policy.
2) Any type= of VPN: 3 transport labels + 1~3 service labels =3D> traffic cannot be = steered into a 6-label SR-TE policy.

a) As defined in RFC8491,= the BMI-MSD is 6 for this headend. Do we have a standardized way to signal= the transport label depth in mode 2?
=C2=A0=C2=A0 Maybe in a= different MSD type?
b) Since plain IPv4 and VPN routes can be ste= ered into the same SR-TE policy, do we have a standardized headend behavior= in this situation?
=C2=A0=C2=A0 (Should I open a new t= hread to discuss this? It seems not quite MSD-relative.)
=

Thanks.
Nat.

=

On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 7:19 AM Jeff Ta= ntsura <jef= ftant.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:
Gyan,

MSD is only relevant for a device that either imposes the= label stack (head-end) or manipulates it (BSID anchor). There are some oth= er constrains when it comes to entropy labels and ERLD, please read the res= pective drafts.
In general, SID stack would grow when TE is in use (any t= ime you need to use additional SID to deviate from SPT), another case is wh= en additional SID=E2=80=99s are used for services on the nodes, other than = the tail-end.
That=E2=80=99s why we've designed MSD to be very flex= ible to accommodate all the different use cases, it is upto computational l= ogic to decide how to deal with different constrains (MSD types)=C2=A0

Cheers,
Jeff

P.S. you might want to see the NANOG MSD presentation I d= id some time ago.
On Dec 14, 2019, 11:59 PM -0800, Gyan Mis= hra <hayabusa= gsm@gmail.com>, wrote:
Jeff

With SR-MPLS with SR-TR let=E2=80=99s say if you use cSPF= snd don=E2=80=99t have an ERO strict explicit path defined or is a loose p= ath, then the for the cSPF would the transport labels be 1.=C2=A0 For loose= would also be 1 also.=C2=A0 If the path were explicit defined to egress PE= and was 7 hops from ingress to egress then transport would be 6.=C2=A0 And= if L3 vpn service sid was signaled that would be 1 vpn label. =C2=A0

Let me know if I have that right. =C2=A0

In Nats scenario for IPv6 he has 3 vpnv6 labels. =C2=A0

Why is that? =C2=A0

With both SR-MPLS and SRv6 the L3 vpn AFI/SAFI MBGP servi= ces overlay single label sits on top off SR as if does today with MPLS so w= hy 3 vpn labels.

So with this draft with BGP-LS and BMI-MSD you can flood = into the IGP the SID depth so all the nodes along the SR-TE path don=E2=80= =99t go over the maximum which would result in an error.

If you set your MTU high enough in the core like 9216, do= es that overcome the SID depth issues with SR-TE?

Warm=C2=A0regards,

Gyan

On Sat, Dec 14, 2019 at 2:43 AM Nat K= ao <lekao@pyxi= sworks.org> wrote:
Hi, Jeff.

Thanks for the BMI-MSD reference. If I understand correctly:

BMI-MSD =3D Transport Label Depth + Service Label Depth
Only former can be utilized by SR-TE policies.

Currently do we have any method to determine the composition of BMI?
We need to know the transport label depth when doing service route per= -destination steering.

This problem arises when trying to steer a plain IPv4 route and a VPN = service route into the same SR-TE policy that exceeds the transport label d= epth of the service route. I'm trying to figure out the standard behavi= or in this case since the headend we use currently produces some interestin= g results.

Regards,
Nat.

On Sat, Dec 14, 2019 at 2:42 AM Jeff = Tantsura <= jefftant.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Nat,

Currently defined MSD types are:=C2=A0
1: BMI
2: ERLD

Specifically to BMI:
Base MPLS Imposition MSD (BMI-MSD) signals the total numb= er of MPLS=C2=A0labels that can be imposed, including all service/tra= nsport/special=C2=A0labels.
The answer to your question is 6

Cheers,
Jeff
On Dec 13, 2019, 3:42 AM -0800, Nat Kao &= lt;lekao@pyxiswor= ks.org>, wrote:
Hello, SPRING WG.

How do we deal with an SR-TE policy headend with different MSDs for differe= nt types of traffic?
For example, a headend H can impose:
6 transport labels for plain IPv4 packets;
5 transport labels + 1 IPv6 ExpNull label for plain IPv6 packets;
3 transport labels=C2=A0+ 3 VPN=C2=A0 labels for VPN packets.

a) For a plain IPv4 route R4 and a VPN route Rv both steered into the SR-TE= policy P1 with SID list <S1, S2, S3, S4, S5>, what will H perform in= this situation?
b) What is the MSD of H? 6, 5 or 3?

Thanks,
Nat.
_______________________________________________
spring mailing list
spring@ietf.org = https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
_______________________________________________
spring mailing list
spring@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
--

Gyan S. Mishra

IT Network Engineering & Technology=C2=A0

Verizon Communications=C2=A0Inc. (VZ)

13101 Columbia Pike FDC1 3rd Floor

Silver Spring, MD 20904

United StatesPhone:=C2=A0301 502-1347

Email:=C2=A0gyan.s.mis= hra@verizon.com

www.linkedin.com/i= n/networking-technologies-consultant


--000000000000990f7f0599df46c9-- From nobody Mon Dec 16 21:58:01 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08B161200B4 for ; Mon, 16 Dec 2019 21:57:59 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.198 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.198 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CsPGAdQeQemC for ; Mon, 16 Dec 2019 21:57:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from eu-smtp-delivery-182.mimecast.com (eu-smtp-delivery-182.mimecast.com [146.101.78.182]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 90786120059 for ; Mon, 16 Dec 2019 21:57:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from EUR02-VE1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-ve1eur02lp2052.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.6.52]) (Using TLS) by relay.mimecast.com with ESMTP id uk-mta-9-N7_CHfEaP4O5QDF3Wv0dbQ-1; Tue, 17 Dec 2019 05:57:48 +0000 Received: from DBBPR03MB5415.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com (20.179.47.79) by DBBPR03MB5446.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com (10.255.78.144) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.2538.18; Tue, 17 Dec 2019 05:57:47 +0000 Received: from DBBPR03MB5415.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::f4ba:55b5:8f6c:5256]) by DBBPR03MB5415.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::f4ba:55b5:8f6c:5256%5]) with mapi id 15.20.2538.019; Tue, 17 Dec 2019 05:57:47 +0000 From: Andrew Alston To: Alexandre Petrescu , SPRING WG email list Thread-Topic: [spring] packet captures for draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-06? Thread-Index: AQHVtB30yUuQpd+rN06ZUFj620sk56e90UZA Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2019 05:57:47 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [2c0f:fe40:3:1:d109:7ac8:8674:4628] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-ht: Tenant x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: b4aa1996-8b64-4831-8efb-08d782b60ac4 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: DBBPR03MB5446: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:10000; x-forefront-prvs: 02543CD7CD x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(376002)(136003)(366004)(346002)(396003)(39860400002)(199004)(189003)(9686003)(81166006)(186003)(110136005)(66556008)(66476007)(33656002)(2906002)(64756008)(966005)(66446008)(5660300002)(55016002)(52536014)(8676002)(7696005)(71200400001)(86362001)(81156014)(478600001)(8936002)(66946007)(53546011)(316002)(66574012)(6506007)(76116006); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:DBBPR03MB5446; H:DBBPR03MB5415.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1; x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: RSyA31ZsQ/Q1SRiEr2m9OpAAOU7oA3UNyJkzkkX5bwGfEa+BnMFdleyTmg8P1bI49XH6IXhWVAzCpWv5pM2kNiykHJrUaf/9mB7/5ACxed7+SlV0bt3BuWTDwUsAjqHg44iA4T1ICQqZPT3eFDRsuJS/wK0B1ouMZ94ksqbkm+tZz6eJdyl4lBpHe7xGabWC+FqS3u8RnYMaXAWwIbJHM6WNNAV3WWpyt+spZgM4rXKNa1bsNlXGKF/S2wXe8mCsyPIj8k2j5K7XjlK9Nn38s+wANKMzRd2vu7ozZm1K45Aj6wB2NiCOcdMWrWJi3g4WcWnetU/ekgFQYGyw/rHv+3BYVSohKacquWVCHMLJaw16519uUtMB9VZ9NQvGVyQICP0+DCXuWO3/fnupL621eo8+9C6mGXsK9K2Ps8VbtVcs4wzDKX8MSMtjiRZaeEGnKvnim6PDzr/eLzzQuBjWVIBpxL/VrOvqgkl/wxQnAs8= x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: liquidtelecom.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: b4aa1996-8b64-4831-8efb-08d782b60ac4 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 17 Dec 2019 05:57:47.1477 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 68792612-0f0e-46cb-b16a-fcb82fd80cb1 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: DtpjH6bXzopFo7XfQmzNlZGZorNbNvcCBabtt7GPMAgyJ+FlxnFATRXTKb/fAhO+U1BUfcwJKMfu81KAJwOF1CQ6GMNpgSkLeVfaOdp21KM= X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DBBPR03MB5446 X-MC-Unique: N7_CHfEaP4O5QDF3Wv0dbQ-1 X-Mimecast-Spam-Score: 0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_DBBPR03MB541590C24AEC6486C530DD24EE500DBBPR03MB5415eurp_" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] packet captures for draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-06? X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2019 05:57:59 -0000 --_000_DBBPR03MB541590C24AEC6486C530DD24EE500DBBPR03MB5415eurp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Alex, Will try and get you some captures off the devices I've been testing on - i= n order to make sure I understood this draft properly, and in light of the = deployment status draft, I decided to play a lot more deeply and setup a bi= t of a lab. I'm still doing tests and soon as I have some other bits compl= eted will send through the packet captures from those against (Since the XR= boxes that I have to test on seem to have absolutely no ability to setup t= raffic steering with SRv6 (and I actually have requested details of how to = configure this in the past but gotten no response), I'm just finishing the = code to inject packets from outside with a sid stack to test this. I also = acknowledge that I'm running tests against code that is implementing a draf= t that seems far from final - and so shouldn't have that many expectations. That being said, In light of the deployment draft - I do have some concerns= that there is a draft that specifies that people have put this stuff into = production - yet the implementation in current shipping code seems to be *w= ay* off the draft and contrary to things we have been told in the working g= roup. Some of the more interesting finds so far: * In Montreal - I questioned the growth in the IGP tables - since I wou= ld have to use a separate locator on each router - I was explicitly told th= is wasn't necessary and could use the loopbacks - not so in current code - = use of the loopback marks the locator as down. * Locator size is not configurable as anything other than a /64 * XR 7.0.1 claims a maximum number of SID's at 8000 - I'm still unclear= if this limitation in the code is based on locally configured SID's or rec= eived SID's - and will run some tests on this in the coming day or two to v= erify * There seems to be a limit on a single locator per box - I'm still try= ing to figure out what impact this will have in a multi-area or multi-level= IGP deployment scenario. * By default when configuring a locator - the device configures a separ= ate End.X (PSP) for each interface - now - this is where things get interes= ting. If I am reading the NP text correctly, End.X (PSP) should be locator= :0006:: - However, in the shipping code, that is not the case at all - as = per the below: RP/0/RP0/CPU0:SRV6-R2#show segment-routing srv6 locator R2 sid Sun Dec 15 0= 4:56:10.913 UTC SID Behavior Context = Owner State RW -------------------------- ----------- ------------------------------ = ------------------ ----- -- 2001:db8:ee:2:1:: End (PSP) 'default':1 = sidmgr InUse Y 2001:db8:ee:2:11:: End.OP 'default' = sidmgr InUse Y 2001:db8:ee:2:40:: End.X (PSP) [Gi0/0/0/0, Link-Local] = isis-64 InUse Y 2001:db8:ee:2:41:: End.X (PSP) [Gi0/0/0/1, Link-Local] = isis-64 InUse Y 2001:db8:ee:2:42:: End.X (PSP) [Gi0/0/0/3, Link-Local] = isis-64 InUse Y So from my perspective - I have to wonder about the production deployments = - because particularly on this last point - if people have been putting thi= s stuff in production, and the implementation is so different from the text= , its going to create some rather interesting breakage going forward if my = reading of the text is correct. Anyway - will send some packet captures hopefully in the next 48 hours once= I've got a more complete set of captures from my lab setup. Thanks Andrew From: spring On Behalf Of Alexandre Petrescu Sent: Monday, 16 December 2019 17:34 To: SPRING WG email list Subject: [spring] packet captures for draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-progra= mming-06? Hi, SPRINGers, My comments on SRv6 relate to a worry about modifying packets in transit. In order to better explain myself, or maybe to remove the worry altogether, I would like to ask for packet dumps of SRv6. By looking at the packet contents that go into the network it is much easier to clarify and to avoid misunderstandings. Alex _______________________________________________ spring mailing list spring@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring --_000_DBBPR03MB541590C24AEC6486C530DD24EE500DBBPR03MB5415eurp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Alex,

 

Will try and get you some captures off the devices I’ve been te= sting on – in order to make sure I understood this draft properly, an= d in light of the deployment status draft, I decided to play a lot more deeply and setup a bit of a lab.  I’m still = doing tests and soon as I have some other bits completed will send through = the packet captures from those against (Since the XR boxes that I have to t= est on seem to have absolutely no ability to setup traffic steering with SRv6 (and I actually have requested details of= how to configure this in the past but gotten no response), I’m just = finishing the code to inject packets from outside with a sid stack to test = this.  I also acknowledge that I’m running tests against code that is implementing a draft that seems far from final = – and so shouldn’t have that many expectations.

 

That being said, In light of the deployment draft – I do have s= ome concerns that there is a draft that specifies that people have put this= stuff into production – yet the implementation in current shipping code seems to be *way* off the draft and contra= ry to things we have been told in the working group.

 

Some of the more interesting finds so far:

 

  • In Montreal= – I questioned the growth in the IGP tables – since I would ha= ve to use a separate locator on each router – I was explicitly told this wasn’t necessary and could use the loopbacks &#= 8211; not so in current code – use of the loopback marks the locator = as down.

 

  • Locator siz= e is not configurable as anything other than a /64

    •  

    • XR 7.0.1 cl= aims a maximum number of SID’s at 8000 – I’m still unclea= r if this limitation in the code is based on locally configured SID’s or received SID’s – and will run some tests on thi= s in the coming day or two to verify

     

    • There seems= to be a limit on a single locator per box – I’m still trying t= o figure out what impact this will have in a multi-area or multi-level IGP deployment scenario.

     

    • By default = when configuring a locator – the device configures a separate End.X (= PSP) for each interface – now – this is where things get interesting.  If I am reading the NP text correctly, End.X= (PSP) should be locator:0006::  - However, in the shipping code, that= is not the case at all – as per the below:

      •  

      RP/0/RP0/CPU0:SRV6-R2#sho= w segment-routing srv6 locator R2 sid Sun Dec 15 04:56:10.913 UTC

      SID   &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;        Behavior   &= nbsp; Context          &n= bsp;            = ;    Owner        &n= bsp;      State  RW

      -------------------------= -  -----------  ------------------------------    = ------------------  -----  --

      2001:db8:ee:2:1:: &n= bsp;         End (PSP)  &= nbsp; 'default':1         &nbs= p;             = sidmgr           &nb= sp;  InUse  Y

      2001:db8:ee:2:11:: &= nbsp;        End.OP   &nb= sp;   'default'        &n= bsp;            = ;    sidmgr        &= nbsp;     InUse  Y

      2001:db8:ee:2:40:: &= nbsp;        End.X (PSP)  [Gi0/0/0/= 0, Link-Local]           = isis-64           &n= bsp; InUse  Y

      2001:db8:ee:2:41:: &= nbsp;        End.X (PSP)  [Gi0/0/0/= 1, Link-Local]           = isis-64           &n= bsp; InUse  Y

      2001:db8:ee:2:42:: &= nbsp;        End.X (PSP)  [Gi0/0/0/= 3, Link-Local]           = isis-64           &n= bsp; InUse  Y

       <= /i>

      So from my perspective ̵= 1; I have to wonder about the production deployments – because partic= ularly on this last point – if people have been putting this stuff in= production, and the implementation is so different from the text, its going to create some rather interesting breakage going forwa= rd if my reading of the text is correct.

       

      Anyway – will send som= e packet captures hopefully in the next 48 hours once I’ve got a more= complete set of captures from my lab setup.

       

      Thanks

       

      Andrew

       

       

      From: spring <spring-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Alexandre Petrescu
      Sent: Monday, 16 December 2019 17:34
      To: SPRING WG email list <spring@ietf.org>
      Subject: [spring] packet captures for draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network= -programming-06?

       

      Hi, SPRINGers,

      My comments on SRv6 relate to a worry about modifying packets in transit.
      In order to better explain myself, or maybe to remove the worry
      altogether, I would like to ask for packet dumps of SRv6.

      By looking at the packet contents that go into the network it is much
      easier to clarify and to avoid misunderstandings.

      Alex

      _______________________________________________
      spring mailing list
      spring@ietf.org
      https://www.ietf.o= rg/mailman/listinfo/spring

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Best Regards Shaowen Ma On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 10:46 AM Kamran Raza (skraza) wrote: > I=E2=80=99m not aware of any undisclosed IPR related to this document. > > Rgds, > -- Kamran > > =EF=BB=BFOn 2019-12-16, 12:31 PM, "spring on behalf of Satish Mynam" < > spring-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of satishm@arrcus.com> wrote: > > As contributor, I=E2=80=99m not aware of any undisclosed IPR related = to this > document. > > Thanks, > Satish > > > On 12/5/19, 8:50 AM, "bruno.decraene@orange.com" < > bruno.decraene@orange.com> wrote: > > Hi SPRING WG, > > In parallel to the WGLC for draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-progra= mming, > we would like to poll for IPR. > > If you are aware of IPR that applies to > draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming [1] please respond to this > email. If you are aware of IPR, please indicate whether it has been > disclosed in accordance with IETF IPR rules (RFCs 3979, 4879, 366= 9 > and 5378 provide more details). > > If you are an *author or contributor* please respond to this emai= l > regardless of whether or not you're aware of any IPR. > > This document will not advance until IPR confirmations have been > received from all authors and contributors. > > Thank you, > Bruno > > [1] > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-05 > > > ____________________________________________________________ > _____________________________________________________________ > > Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des information= s > confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc > pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous > avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler > a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les > messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, > Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, > deforme ou falsifie. Merci. > > This message and its attachments may contain confidential or > privileged information that may be protected by law; > they should not be distributed, used or copied without > authorisation. > If you have received this email in error, please notify the sende= r > and delete this message and its attachments. > As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that > have been modified, changed or falsified. > Thank you. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > > > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > --0000000000008820f90599e2a4c6 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi All,

=C2=A0 As a contributor, I=E2=80=99m not aware of any undi= sclosed IPR related to this document.

Best Regards
Shaowen Ma

On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 10:46 AM Kamran Raza (skr= aza) <skraza@cisco.com> wrote= :
I=E2=80=99m not aware of any u= ndisclosed IPR related to this document.
Rgds,
-- Kamran
=EF=BB=BFOn 2019-12-16, 12:31 PM, "spring on behalf of Satish Mynam&qu= ot; <spring= -bounces@ietf.org on behalf of satishm@arrcus.com> wrote:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 As contributor, I=E2=80=99m not aware of any undisclosed IPR = related to this document.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Thanks,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Satish

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 On 12/5/19, 8:50 AM, "bruno.decraene@orange.com" <bruno.decraene@ora= nge.com> wrote:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Hi SPRING WG,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 In parallel to the WGLC for draft-ietf-spring-s= rv6-network-prog= ramming, we would like to poll for IPR.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 If you are aware of IPR that applies to draft-i= etf-spring-srv6-network-programming [1] please respond to this email. If you are aware of I= PR, please indicate whether it has been
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 disclosed in accordance with IETF IPR rules (RF= Cs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 provide more details).
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 If you are an *author or contributor* please re= spond to this email regardless of whether or not you're aware of any IP= R.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 This document will not advance until IPR confir= mations have been received from all authors and contributors.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Thank you,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Bruno
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 [1] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming= -05

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 _______________________________________________________________________________= ________________= __________________________
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent conten= ir des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans aut= orisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les= pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'altera= tion,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce messa= ge a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 This message and its attachments may contain co= nfidential or privileged information that may be protected by law;
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 they should not be distributed, used or copied = without authorisation.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 If you have received this email in error, pleas= e notify the sender and delete this message and its attachments.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable = for messages that have been modified, changed or falsified.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Thank you.



=C2=A0 =C2=A0 _______________________________________________
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 spring mailing list
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 spring@i= etf.org
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spr= ing

_______________________________________________
spring mailing list
 spring@ietf.org
 http= s://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
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Tue, 17 Dec 2019 09:36:13 +0000 From: Alexander Vainshtein To: "spring@ietf.org" CC: Michael Gorokhovsky , Sheetal Jangeed , Madhav Purohit , Abhijit Gokaraju , Dmitry Valdman Thread-Topic: A question regarding Section 3.2 of RFC 8402 Thread-Index: AdWvR90JFVFlVi/cQa2YeNQhog9JBQFdWREw Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2019 09:36:13 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [147.234.241.1] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-ht: Tenant x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 025ec8b0-08b9-43d4-ed98-08d782d48efc x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: AM0PR03MB3667: x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:10000; x-forefront-prvs: 02543CD7CD x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(396003)(136003)(346002)(376002)(366004)(39860400002)(189003)(199004)(51874003)(53754006)(66574012)(8936002)(53546011)(478600001)(26005)(66476007)(55016002)(81166006)(81156014)(8676002)(33656002)(52536014)(6506007)(66556008)(54906003)(64756008)(66946007)(66446008)(316002)(186003)(6916009)(71200400001)(86362001)(107886003)(9686003)(2906002)(4326008)(5660300002)(7696005)(76116006); 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, This is a gentle reminder - we have not seen any responses from anybody on= the WG mailing list... To make it clear: If you think that this is a non-issue, please say so as = well. Regards, Sasha Office: +972-39266302 Cell: +972-549266302 Email: Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com From: Alexander Vainshtein Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2019 1:14 PM To: spring@ietf.org Cc: Michael Gorokhovsky ; Sheetal Jangeed= ; Madhav Purohit ; Abhijit Gokaraju (Abhijit.Gokaraju@ecitele.com) ; Dmitry Valdman Subject: A question regarding Section 3.2 of RFC 8402 Importance: High Hi all, My colleagues and I have a question pertaining to Section 3.2 of RFC 8402= . This section says= : An IGP Node-SID MUST NOT be associated with a prefix that is owned by more than one router within the same routing domain. The requirement itself is well understood. However, neither RFC 8402 nor a= ny other SPRING document I have seen defines the expected behavior of SR-c= apable nodes if, due to misconfiguration, a certain prefix that is owned b= y multiple nodes in the SR domain is associated with the Node-SID in at le= ast one of them. There are several sub-scenarios of the misconfiguration problem above, e.g= .: * The prefix is owned by multiple nodes. One of these nodes advert= ises it as associated with the Node-SID, while the other owners do not ass= ociate it with any SID at all * The prefix is owned by multiple nodes. One of these nodes advert= ises it as associated with the Node-SID, while one (or more) of the other = nodes advertise it as associated with an IGP-Prefix SID but not as a Node-= SID * The prefix is owned by multiple nodes, and two (or more) of the= se nodes advertise it as associated with the Node-SID but with different i= ndices in the SRGB * The prefix is owned by multiple nodes, and two (or more) of the= se nodes advertise it as associated with the Node-SID with the same index = in the SRGB. Our experiments (admittedly incomplete) with SR-capable equipment from dif= ferent vendors have shown that: * None of the tested devices have reported this situation as an er= ror when they encounter some of the problematic scenarios * Different devices have demonstrated different forwarding behavio= r when they encounter some of the problematic scenarios. In some of these = scenarios the offending prefix would be associated with some SID and the r= esulting forwarding behavior installed. We think that it would be nice if the WG could define a minimal set of req= uirements for handling this kind of misconfiguration. These requirements s= hould include at least the following: * A device that encounters this kind of misconfiguration SHOULD re= port the problem to the network management layer * The prefix for which this kind of misconfiguration has been dete= cted SHOULD NOT be associated with any IGP Prefix-SID at all. There may be other possibilities, but we feel that RFC 8402 is underspecif= ied in this regard, We would highly appreciate your feedback. Regards, and lots of thanks in advance, Sasha (on behalf of the team). Office: +972-39266302 Cell: +972-549266302 Email: Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com __________________________________________________________________________= _ This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains inform= ation which is=20 CONFIDENTIAL and which may be proprietary to ECI Telecom. If you have rece= ived this=20 transmission in error, please inform us by e-mail, phone or fax, and then = delete the original=20 and all copies thereof. __________________________________________________________________________= _ --_000_AM0PR03MB3828FA3A5FC4ACF4B7F32DB69D500AM0PR03MB3828eurp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi all,

This is a gentle remi= nder – we have not seen any responses from anybody on the WG mailing= list...

To make it clear: If = you think that this is a non-issue, please say so as well.

 

Regards,

Sasha

 

Office: +972-3926= 6302

Cell:  &nbs= p;   +972-549266302

Email:   Al= exander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com

 

From: Alexander Vainshtein
Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2019 1:14 PM
To: spring@ietf.org
Cc: Michael Gorokhovsky <Michael.Gorokhovsky@ecitele.com>; Sh= eetal Jangeed <Sheetal.Jangeed@ecitele.com>; Madhav Purohit <Madh= av.Purohit@ecitele.com>; Abhijit Gokaraju (Abhijit.Gokaraju@ecitele.com= ) <Abhijit.Gokaraju@ecitele.com>; Dmitry Valdman <Dmitry.Valdman@= ecitele.com>
Subject: A question regarding Section 3.2 of RFC 8402
Importance: High

 

Hi all,

My colleagues and I have a question pertaining to &= nbsp;Section 3.2 of RFC 8402. This section says:

 

   An IGP Node-SID MUST NOT be ass= ociated with a prefix that is owned by

   more than one router within the= same routing domain.

 

The requirement itself is well understood. However,= neither RFC 8402 nor any other SPRING document I have seen defines the ex= pected behavior of SR-capable nodes if, due to misconfiguration, a certain= prefix that is owned by multiple nodes in the SR domain is associated with the Node-SID in at least one of them.=

 

There are several sub-scenarios of the misconfigura= tion problem above, e.g.:

·         The prefix is owne= d by multiple nodes. One of these nodes advertises it as associated with t= he Node-SID, while the other owners do not associate it with any SID at al= l

·         The prefix is owne= d by multiple nodes. One of these nodes advertises it as associated with t= he Node-SID, while one (or more) of the other nodes advertise it as associ= ated with an IGP-Prefix SID but not as a Node-SID

·         The prefix is owne= d by multiple nodes, and  two (or more) of these nodes advertise it a= s associated with the Node-SID but with different indices in the SRGB=

·         The prefix is owne= d by multiple nodes, and  two (or more) of these nodes advertise it a= s associated with the Node-SID with the same index in the SRGB.=

 

Our experiments (admittedly incomplete) with SR-cap= able equipment from different vendors have shown that:

·         None of the tested= devices have reported this situation as an error when they encounter some= of the problematic scenarios

·         Different devices = have demonstrated different forwarding behavior when they encounter some o= f the problematic scenarios. In some of these scenarios the offending pref= ix would be associated with some SID and the resulting forwarding behavior installed.

 

We think that it would be nice if the WG could defi= ne a minimal set of requirements for handling this kind of misconfiguratio= n. These requirements should include at least the following:

·         A device that enco= unters this kind of misconfiguration SHOULD report the problem to the netw= ork management layer

·         The prefix for whi= ch this kind of misconfiguration has been detected SHOULD NOT be associate= d with any IGP Prefix-SID at all.

 

There may be other possibilities, but we feel that = RFC 8402 is underspecified in this regard,

 

We would highly appreciate your feedback.

 

Regards, and lots of thanks in advance,<= /p>

Sasha (on behalf of the team).

 

Office: +972-39266302

Cell:      +972-549266= 302

Email:   Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com

 


__________________________________________________________________________= _

This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains inform= ation which is
CONFIDENTIAL and which may be proprietary to ECI Telecom. If you have rece= ived this
transmission in error, please inform us by e-mail, phone or fax, and then = delete the original
and all copies thereof.
__________________________________________________________________________= _
--_000_AM0PR03MB3828FA3A5FC4ACF4B7F32DB69D500AM0PR03MB3828eurp_-- From nobody Tue Dec 17 01:59:04 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D897B12011D for ; Tue, 17 Dec 2019 01:59:02 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=raszuk.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Rg6DS_56C1O6 for ; Tue, 17 Dec 2019 01:58:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qk1-x72a.google.com (mail-qk1-x72a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::72a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 72861120114 for ; Tue, 17 Dec 2019 01:58:59 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qk1-x72a.google.com with SMTP id x1so7746531qkl.12 for ; Tue, 17 Dec 2019 01:58:59 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=raszuk.net; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=cy5LCGLThgRUtAkBqyvT2i1TifuiyD9jONrkOZyYI9o=; b=SxKYlK2uwMQ8VIK6oDfNfXhSNMHPJ2QIcz1ITdv20ByaCZg88JbiuZYyBqoWWuzG8D fXCZ/z/IbYtTtrZMk3JZYrv+pRP3/QmbnE0cv/at/4TBqCTpoqcz9Pb7fytT2xrp9kl7 mTieGAvjIxXXrY/amVA57EtGjLmt4bLHLWUrKE++47nyEJTM3/7/VkvxMvgTQ+thieX9 W+nW9qqet3xOlwYxupzMz2VM1sVcw+12sNE4y9efr8qlUW5O/4tHrES+++7T1wHzff8F 5HslLIOe/RlxHicaS3kz/gCaPLAXlMyV8dD8NiNQlJ0R7nGGx/6W7KkxTjsi6+GwsJIW 2ZjQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=cy5LCGLThgRUtAkBqyvT2i1TifuiyD9jONrkOZyYI9o=; b=cSlxQVRIrpIliuyJ54nKypd1LtRunUeURTocbEixkBrSWnOgS3KCxQ9nsE9eeCoEVj d4CkBJkq7eB++HxsbO8jiJeY6fmUcD7E9+xS0dlhD1ebBnwTgwqElCMzhCbl7LLJ2aWu Mgkz5vHBoM+FKHNy9aw/gasovLZqohO1aps7FFPhHoHgtqLEvOwDibKtwY0hZ6lgd9JT 0wNzHhzqkO469nFycxdZ7bAPAj1td4kNGilBr9hhVbnqGS35pz5vGgT97y+4y1Soe/L6 IOysEyQfiTDEsoICKFr/RGrue1nkHw2yJDCDJwDfb1wjNVHt7fm/7YJ2E8hUyuBU4ctU jNOQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAX6+KPajFMhwQ+4zVW2surNDT7ElX+hdELT20FytIJLG6425403 rQpglXZCr11/cC9AKYF8313FBohoVz8CVem9UrUr1dQF7GU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqy1y4q5TKv1BY5ysIFSZIOEqsjoxhZRqX1poiuYh5oBwougI5SMxHWE6vMg/t7innYhm8pl83Ur1VBTyzmz9T0= X-Received: by 2002:a37:4ac6:: with SMTP id x189mr579573qka.219.1576576738328; Tue, 17 Dec 2019 01:58:58 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <38b14bf5-b6d9-4d46-ad1d-d26d3376df51@Spark> In-Reply-To: From: Robert Raszuk Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2019 10:58:50 +0100 Message-ID: To: Nat Kao Cc: SPRING WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000731b6f0599e360fb" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Different MSDs for different traffic types on the same headend. X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2019 09:59:03 -0000 --000000000000731b6f0599e360fb Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Nat, I am having a bit of difficulty understanding reasoning and the way you are separating transport from service labels. The processing label limit usually comes from data plane capabilities of the platform namely LFIB or hardware below. Such layer is function agnostic and it does not matter what role the label serves. Label lookup results in pointer to a adj. rewrite on the outbound side. It really does not matter if the adjacent peer is your P router, segment endpoint or CE. Of course there are number of processing exceptions - for example concept of aggregate VPN label, additional header modifications etc ... Likely some platforms put such artificial boundary between transport and service hence your request. But if so IMHO this is more of an issue with specific platform or its marketing message then IETF :). Many thx, R. On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 6:06 AM Nat Kao wrote: > Hi, Jeff. > > Consider a headend that can perform 1 of the following 2 modes(but not > both): > 1) Plain IPv4: 6 transport labels + 0 service label =3D> traffic can be > steered into a 6-label SR-TE policy. > 2) Any type of VPN: 3 transport labels + 1~3 service labels =3D> traffic > cannot be steered into a 6-label SR-TE policy. > > a) As defined in RFC8491, the BMI-MSD is 6 for this headend. Do we have a > standardized way to signal the transport label depth in mode 2? > Maybe in a different MSD type? > b) Since plain IPv4 and VPN routes can be steered into the same SR-TE > policy, do we have a standardized headend behavior in this situation? > (Should I open a new thread to discuss this? It seems not quite > MSD-relative.) > > Thanks.. > Nat > > > On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 11:14 AM Nat Kao wrote: > >> Hi, Jeff. >> >> Consider a headend that can perform 1 of the following 2 modes(but not >> both): >> 1) Plain IPv4: 6 transport labels + 0 service label =3D> traffic can be >> steered into a 6-label SR-TE policy. >> 2) Any type of VPN: 3 transport labels + 1~3 service labels =3D> traffic >> cannot be steered into a 6-label SR-TE policy. >> >> a) As defined in RFC8491, the BMI-MSD is 6 for this headend. Do we have = a >> standardized way to signal the transport label depth in mode 2? >> Maybe in a different MSD type? >> b) Since plain IPv4 and VPN routes can be steered into the same SR-TE >> policy, do we have a standardized headend behavior in this situation? >> (Should I open a new thread to discuss this? It seems not quite >> MSD-relative.) >> >> Thanks. >> Nat. >> >> >> On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 7:19 AM Jeff Tantsura >> wrote: >> >>> Gyan, >>> >>> MSD is only relevant for a device that either imposes the label stack >>> (head-end) or manipulates it (BSID anchor). There are some other constr= ains >>> when it comes to entropy labels and ERLD, please read the respective dr= afts. >>> In general, SID stack would grow when TE is in use (any time you need t= o >>> use additional SID to deviate from SPT), another case is when additiona= l >>> SID=E2=80=99s are used for services on the nodes, other than the tail-e= nd. >>> That=E2=80=99s why we've designed MSD to be very flexible to accommodat= e all the >>> different use cases, it is upto computational logic to decide how to de= al >>> with different constrains (MSD types) >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Jeff >>> >>> P.S. you might want to see the NANOG MSD presentation I did some time >>> ago. >>> >>> https://pc.nanog.org/static/published/meetings/NANOG71/1424/20171004_Ta= ntsura_The_Critical_Role_v1.pdf >>> On Dec 14, 2019, 11:59 PM -0800, Gyan Mishra , >>> wrote: >>> >>> Jeff >>> >>> With SR-MPLS with SR-TR let=E2=80=99s say if you use cSPF snd don=E2=80= =99t have an ERO >>> strict explicit path defined or is a loose path, then the for the cSPF >>> would the transport labels be 1. For loose would also be 1 also. If t= he >>> path were explicit defined to egress PE and was 7 hops from ingress to >>> egress then transport would be 6. And if L3 vpn service sid was signal= ed >>> that would be 1 vpn label. >>> >>> Let me know if I have that right. >>> >>> In Nats scenario for IPv6 he has 3 vpnv6 labels. >>> >>> Why is that? >>> >>> With both SR-MPLS and SRv6 the L3 vpn AFI/SAFI MBGP services overlay >>> single label sits on top off SR as if does today with MPLS so why 3 vpn >>> labels. >>> >>> So with this draft with BGP-LS and BMI-MSD you can flood into the IGP >>> the SID depth so all the nodes along the SR-TE path don=E2=80=99t go ov= er the >>> maximum which would result in an error. >>> >>> If you set your MTU high enough in the core like 9216, does that >>> overcome the SID depth issues with SR-TE? >>> >>> Warm regards, >>> >>> Gyan >>> >>> On Sat, Dec 14, 2019 at 2:43 AM Nat Kao wrote: >>> >>>> Hi, Jeff. >>>> >>>> Thanks for the BMI-MSD reference. If I understand correctly: >>>> >>>> BMI-MSD =3D Transport Label Depth + Service Label Depth >>>> Only former can be utilized by SR-TE policies. >>>> >>>> Currently do we have any method to determine the composition of BMI? >>>> We need to know the transport label depth when doing service route >>>> per-destination steering. >>>> >>>> This problem arises when trying to steer a plain IPv4 route and a VPN >>>> service route into the same SR-TE policy that exceeds the transport la= bel >>>> depth of the service route. I'm trying to figure out the standard beha= vior >>>> in this case since the headend we use currently produces some interest= ing >>>> results. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Nat. >>>> >>>> On Sat, Dec 14, 2019 at 2:42 AM Jeff Tantsura >>> > wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi Nat, >>>>> >>>>> Please read https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8491#section-5 >>>>> Currently defined MSD types are: >>>>> 1: BMI >>>>> 2: ERLD >>>>> >>>>> Specifically to BMI: >>>>> Base MPLS Imposition MSD (BMI-MSD) signals the total number of MPLS l= abels >>>>> that can be imposed, including all service/transport/special labels. >>>>> The answer to your question is 6 >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> Jeff >>>>> On Dec 13, 2019, 3:42 AM -0800, Nat Kao , wrote= : >>>>> >>>>> Hello, SPRING WG. >>>>> >>>>> How do we deal with an SR-TE policy headend with different MSDs for >>>>> different types of traffic? >>>>> For example, a headend H can impose: >>>>> 6 transport labels for plain IPv4 packets; >>>>> 5 transport labels + 1 IPv6 ExpNull label for plain IPv6 packets; >>>>> 3 transport labels + 3 VPN labels for VPN packets. >>>>> >>>>> a) For a plain IPv4 route R4 and a VPN route Rv both steered into the >>>>> SR-TE policy P1 with SID list , what will H perfo= rm in >>>>> this situation? >>>>> b) What is the MSD of H? 6, 5 or 3? >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Nat. >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> spring mailing list >>>>> spring@ietf.org >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> spring mailing list >>>> spring@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring >>>> >>> -- >>> >>> Gyan S. Mishra >>> >>> IT Network Engineering & Technology >>> >>> Verizon Communications Inc. (VZ) >>> >>> 13101 Columbia Pike FDC1 3rd Floor >>> >>> Silver Spring, MD 20904 >>> >>> United States >>> >>> Phone: 301 502-1347 >>> >>> Email: gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com >>> >>> www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies-consultant >>> >>> _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > --000000000000731b6f0599e360fb Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Nat,

I am having a bit of difficulty= understanding reasoning and the way you are separating transport from serv= ice labels.=C2=A0

The processing label limit usual= ly comes from data plane capabilities=C2=A0of the platform namely LFIB or h= ardware below.=C2=A0

Such layer is function agnost= ic and it does not matter what role the label serves.=C2=A0

<= /div>
Label lookup results in pointer to a adj. rewrite on the outbound= side. It really does not matter if the adjacent=C2=A0peer is your P router= , segment endpoint=C2=A0or CE.=C2=A0

Of course the= re are number of processing exceptions - for example concept of aggregate V= PN label, additional header modifications etc ...=C2=A0

Likely some platforms put such artificial=C2=A0boundary between trans= port=C2=A0and service hence your request. But if so IMHO this is more of an= issue=C2=A0with specific platform or its marketing message then IETF :).= =C2=A0

Many thx,
R.





<= br>
On Tue,= Dec 17, 2019 at 6:06 AM Nat Kao <lekao@pyxisworks.org> wrote:
Hi, Jeff.

Consider a headend that can perform 1 of = the following 2 modes(but not both):
1) Plain IPv4: 6 transport la= bels + 0 service label =3D> traffic can be steered into a 6-label SR-TE = policy.
2) Any type of VPN: 3 transport labels + 1~3 service label= s =3D> traffic cannot be steered into a 6-label SR-TE policy.

a) As defined in RFC8491, the BMI-MSD is 6 for this headend. Do we have a=20 standardized way to signal the transport label depth in mode 2?
=C2=A0=C2=A0 Maybe in a different MSD type?
b) Since plain IPv4 and VPN routes can be steered into the same SR-TE=20 policy, do we have a standardized headend behavior in this situation?
=C2=A0=C2=A0 (Should I open a new thread to discuss this? It seems not = quite MSD-relative.)

Thanks= ..
Nat=


On Tue, Dec 17, 20= 19 at 11:14 AM Nat Kao <lekao@pyxisworks.org> wrote:
=
Hi, Jeff.

Consider a headend that can perform 1 of the fo= llowing 2 modes(but not both):
1) Plain IPv4: 6 transport labels += 0 service label =3D> traffic can be steered into a 6-label SR-TE policy= .
2) Any type of VPN: 3 transport labels + 1~3 service labels =3D&= gt; traffic cannot be steered into a 6-label SR-TE policy.

a) = As defined in RFC8491, the BMI-MSD is 6 for this headend. Do we have a stan= dardized way to signal the transport label depth in mode 2?
= =C2=A0=C2=A0 Maybe in a different MSD type?
b) Since plain IPv4 an= d VPN routes can be steered into the same SR-TE policy, do we have a standa= rdized headend behavior in this situation?
=C2=A0=C2=A0= (Should I open a new thread to discuss this? It seems not quite MSD-relati= ve.)

Thanks.
= Nat.


On Tue, Dec 17, = 2019 at 7:19 AM Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:
Gyan,

MSD is only relevant for a device that either imposes the= label stack (head-end) or manipulates it (BSID anchor). There are some oth= er constrains when it comes to entropy labels and ERLD, please read the res= pective drafts.
In general, SID stack would grow when TE is in use (any t= ime you need to use additional SID to deviate from SPT), another case is wh= en additional SID=E2=80=99s are used for services on the nodes, other than = the tail-end.
That=E2=80=99s why we've designed MSD to be very flex= ible to accommodate all the different use cases, it is upto computational l= ogic to decide how to deal with different constrains (MSD types)=C2=A0

Cheers,
Jeff

P.S. you might want to see the NANOG MSD presentation I d= id some time ago.
On Dec 14, 2019, 11:59 PM -0800, Gyan Mis= hra <hayabusa= gsm@gmail.com>, wrote:
Jeff

With SR-MPLS with SR-TR let=E2=80=99s say if you use cSPF= snd don=E2=80=99t have an ERO strict explicit path defined or is a loose p= ath, then the for the cSPF would the transport labels be 1.=C2=A0 For loose= would also be 1 also.=C2=A0 If the path were explicit defined to egress PE= and was 7 hops from ingress to egress then transport would be 6.=C2=A0 And= if L3 vpn service sid was signaled that would be 1 vpn label. =C2=A0

Let me know if I have that right. =C2=A0

In Nats scenario for IPv6 he has 3 vpnv6 labels. =C2=A0

Why is that? =C2=A0

With both SR-MPLS and SRv6 the L3 vpn AFI/SAFI MBGP servi= ces overlay single label sits on top off SR as if does today with MPLS so w= hy 3 vpn labels.

So with this draft with BGP-LS and BMI-MSD you can flood = into the IGP the SID depth so all the nodes along the SR-TE path don=E2=80= =99t go over the maximum which would result in an error.

If you set your MTU high enough in the core like 9216, do= es that overcome the SID depth issues with SR-TE?

Warm=C2=A0regards,

Gyan

On Sat, Dec 14, 2019 at 2:43 AM Nat K= ao <lekao@pyxi= sworks.org> wrote:
Hi, Jeff.

Thanks for the BMI-MSD reference. If I understand correctly:

BMI-MSD =3D Transport Label Depth + Service Label Depth
Only former can be utilized by SR-TE policies.

Currently do we have any method to determine the composition of BMI?
We need to know the transport label depth when doing service route per= -destination steering.

This problem arises when trying to steer a plain IPv4 route and a VPN = service route into the same SR-TE policy that exceeds the transport label d= epth of the service route. I'm trying to figure out the standard behavi= or in this case since the headend we use currently produces some interestin= g results.

Regards,
Nat.

On Sat, Dec 14, 2019 at 2:42 AM Jeff = Tantsura <= jefftant.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Nat,

Currently defined MSD types are:=C2=A0
1: BMI
2: ERLD

Specifically to BMI:
Base MPLS Imposition MSD (BMI-MSD) signals the total numb= er of MPLS=C2=A0labels that can be imposed, including all service/tra= nsport/special=C2=A0labels.
The answer to your question is 6

Cheers,
Jeff
On Dec 13, 2019, 3:42 AM -0800, Nat Kao &= lt;lekao@pyxiswor= ks.org>, wrote:
Hello, SPRING WG.

How do we deal with an SR-TE policy headend with different MSDs for differe= nt types of traffic?
For example, a headend H can impose:
6 transport labels for plain IPv4 packets;
5 transport labels + 1 IPv6 ExpNull label for plain IPv6 packets;
3 transport labels=C2=A0+ 3 VPN=C2=A0 labels for VPN packets.

a) For a plain IPv4 route R4 and a VPN route Rv both steered into the SR-TE= policy P1 with SID list <S1, S2, S3, S4, S5>, what will H perform in= this situation?
b) What is the MSD of H? 6, 5 or 3?

Thanks,
Nat.
_______________________________________________
spring mailing list
spring@ietf.org = https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
_______________________________________________
spring mailing list
spring@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
--

Gyan S. Mishra

IT Network Engineering & Technology=C2=A0

Verizon Communications=C2=A0Inc. (VZ)

13101 Columbia Pike FDC1 3rd Floor

Silver Spring, MD 20904

United StatesPhone:=C2=A0301 502-1347

Email:=C2=A0gyan.s.mis= hra@verizon.com

www.linkedin.com/i= n/networking-technologies-consultant


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--000000000000731b6f0599e360fb-- From nobody Tue Dec 17 02:12:39 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9AC21209C3 for ; Tue, 17 Dec 2019 02:12:37 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=raszuk.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TWm3ntCsfCXj for ; Tue, 17 Dec 2019 02:12:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qk1-x72c.google.com (mail-qk1-x72c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::72c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 280BB120114 for ; Tue, 17 Dec 2019 02:12:35 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qk1-x72c.google.com with SMTP id t129so1569682qke.10 for ; Tue, 17 Dec 2019 02:12:35 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=raszuk.net; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=vY7EhO8iTYE0uT/J9/sPzYKc/cMm2S/W04nUm63fFvE=; b=MiR+9nQ4O99NwvxZDwyrruGKOW9yS15YpRPgss3iZfwgRtnnnJo6h0qBgjKZYAFfHv pXyVuEVG3Aehxtz+ycV7qRZ3gDw50gRY60ZtydY+jS9ExSIeawRrDd4YNDWfv0p6ytGV /TGqzxJIqOqUXL1ZgQ1J5CySpDXN+jQgfIu/SZQwVx41j9QXsbnySmyHdFHuHpQTJB33 RdgkNlcWhYRVj8OXtahKdtLEi/R4iofNk5hLVeaV9LAK9y0oG1qvDdcCsp7TxB5R/4Og rBGM5YDZ5AVHsqZ78+SzP1H24zMNUnYnPdUcUvYSI01gRvbod1d8VSP9jlIeNjOT716V YWYA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=vY7EhO8iTYE0uT/J9/sPzYKc/cMm2S/W04nUm63fFvE=; b=uGA/D6UBj9lwOmlnLVD2cC5DgrrYD3+ieSdHlmEYgnKIHxpkO8zrUmHwkCYAAty46g /2pQ3lQ/GtTBrU0kOv40tIgkjRa+9F7316EZb6rK2xVITjC5njWLBQJbCineA6hp2Ja0 hqgAHMeCG95fzDbb8Pr5sLJsBt21epRnJDQtwcbLw0kNgyPN6zRfcig7d42cykaPhuNN vyzqtdDvPcHB23Mk50p5eKhjrdhfFXz1iQjCpt1OzB/AXKBVJtQkXcdpRWzNZGfg/R15 nGQMx59W1lvxwhQJgWFNh4CVRNE2cuMLiFu07u2bQSuNEQ/e1d4Tj1bG9aHN0olr4YDh 9FeQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXmJJRrp5jUkTCMAr5DlwONUWHQC/78mjGNFky7hi1kjlQS3Y/0 Qawh9cgqDg0V9auJl93pBc0yKMxGKg840gjfune8ejey/vc= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwK/WotkzSbXnM+uuNqWJ5pONbMKyZi3UpmTQ/vGGCrJf6JrO1i7F1Ma6/pY34xNpugGPU1O9w9DpmHK8ZxBC8= X-Received: by 2002:a37:693:: with SMTP id 141mr4088497qkg.134.1576577553989; Tue, 17 Dec 2019 02:12:33 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Robert Raszuk Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2019 11:12:25 +0100 Message-ID: To: Andrew Alston Cc: Alexandre Petrescu , SPRING WG email list Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000110cb00599e39179" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] packet captures for draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-06? X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2019 10:12:38 -0000 --000000000000110cb00599e39179 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Andrew, My personal opinion is that with below you are now going way outside of what should be discussed on IETF mailing lists. Hope SPRING charis will address it. IETF is not the right forum for any vendor implementation discussion regardless if this is Cisco, Juniper, Arrcus, Nokia etc .... I recommend you move it to -nsp lists. If standards or drafts are not clear you are welcome to ask questions on those. Any implementation is a private choice of given vendor and in no way should influence WG decision in regards of the choices we make in protocol design. If you think that some implementations violate standards or even WG drafts you are more then welcome to propose specific questions to the implementation reports which chairs would be normally more than happy to include in the process and ask or even enforce all vendors to fill the blanks. Regards, Robert. On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 6:58 AM Andrew Alston < Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com> wrote: > Alex, > > > > Will try and get you some captures off the devices I=E2=80=99ve been test= ing on =E2=80=93 > in order to make sure I understood this draft properly, and in light of t= he > deployment status draft, I decided to play a lot more deeply and setup a > bit of a lab. I=E2=80=99m still doing tests and soon as I have some othe= r bits > completed will send through the packet captures from those against (Since > the XR boxes that I have to test on seem to have absolutely no ability to > setup traffic steering with SRv6 (and I actually have requested details o= f > how to configure this in the past but gotten no response), I=E2=80=99m ju= st > finishing the code to inject packets from outside with a sid stack to tes= t > this. I also acknowledge that I=E2=80=99m running tests against code tha= t is > implementing a draft that seems far from final =E2=80=93 and so shouldn= =E2=80=99t have that > many expectations. > > > > That being said, In light of the deployment draft =E2=80=93 I do have som= e > concerns that there is a draft that specifies that people have put this > stuff into production =E2=80=93 yet the implementation in current shippin= g code > seems to be **way** off the draft and contrary to things we have been > told in the working group. > > > > Some of the more interesting finds so far: > > > > - In Montreal =E2=80=93 I questioned the growth in the IGP tables =E2= =80=93 since I > would have to use a separate locator on each router =E2=80=93 I was ex= plicitly told > this wasn=E2=80=99t necessary and could use the loopbacks =E2=80=93 no= t so in current code > =E2=80=93 use of the loopback marks the locator as down. > > > > - Locator size is not configurable as anything other than a /64 > > > > - XR 7.0.1 claims a maximum number of SID=E2=80=99s at 8000 =E2=80=93 = I=E2=80=99m still > unclear if this limitation in the code is based on locally configured = SID=E2=80=99s > or received SID=E2=80=99s =E2=80=93 and will run some tests on this in= the coming day or > two to verify > > > > - There seems to be a limit on a single locator per box =E2=80=93 I=E2= =80=99m still > trying to figure out what impact this will have in a multi-area or > multi-level IGP deployment scenario. > > > > - By default when configuring a locator =E2=80=93 the device configure= s a > separate End.X (PSP) for each interface =E2=80=93 now =E2=80=93 this i= s where things get > interesting. If I am reading the NP text correctly, End.X (PSP) shoul= d be > locator:0006:: - However, in the shipping code, that is not the case = at > all =E2=80=93 as per the below: > > > > *RP/0/RP0/CPU0:SRV6-R2#show segment-routing srv6 locator R2 sid Sun Dec 1= 5 > 04:56:10.913 UTC* > > *SID Behavior > Context Owner State RW* > > *-------------------------- ----------- > ------------------------------ ------------------ ----- --* > > *2001:db8:ee:2:1:: End (PSP) > 'default':1 sidmgr InUse Y* > > *2001:db8:ee:2:11:: End.OP > 'default' sidmgr InUse Y* > > *2001:db8:ee:2:40:: End.X (PSP) [Gi0/0/0/0, > Link-Local] isis-64 InUse Y* > > *2001:db8:ee:2:41:: End.X (PSP) [Gi0/0/0/1, > Link-Local] isis-64 InUse Y* > > *2001:db8:ee:2:42:: End.X (PSP) [Gi0/0/0/3, > Link-Local] isis-64 InUse Y* > > > > So from my perspective =E2=80=93 I have to wonder about the production de= ployments > =E2=80=93 because particularly on this last point =E2=80=93 if people hav= e been putting > this stuff in production, and the implementation is so different from the > text, its going to create some rather interesting breakage going forward = if > my reading of the text is correct. > > > > Anyway =E2=80=93 will send some packet captures hopefully in the next 48 = hours > once I=E2=80=99ve got a more complete set of captures from my lab setup. > > > > Thanks > > > > Andrew > > > > > > *From:* spring *On Behalf Of *Alexandre Petresc= u > *Sent:* Monday, 16 December 2019 17:34 > *To:* SPRING WG email list > *Subject:* [spring] packet captures for > draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-06? > > > > Hi, SPRINGers, > > My comments on SRv6 relate to a worry about modifying packets in transit. > > In order to better explain myself, or maybe to remove the worry > altogether, I would like to ask for packet dumps of SRv6. > > By looking at the packet contents that go into the network it is much > easier to clarify and to avoid misunderstandings. > > Alex > > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > --000000000000110cb00599e39179 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Andrew,

My personal opinion is that = with below you are now going way outside of what should be discussed on IET= F mailing lists. Hope SPRING charis will address it. IETF is not the right = forum for any vendor implementation discussion regardless if this is Cisco,= Juniper, Arrcus, Nokia etc .... I recommend you move it to -nsp lists.=C2= =A0

If standards or drafts are not clear you are w= elcome to ask questions on those. Any implementation is a private choice of= given vendor and in no way should influence WG decision in regards of the = choices we make in protocol design.=C2=A0

If you= =C2=A0think that some implementations violate standards or even WG drafts y= ou are more then welcome to propose specific=C2=A0questions to the=C2=A0imp= lementation reports which chairs would be normally more than happy to inclu= de in the process and ask or even enforce all vendors to fill the blanks.= =C2=A0

Regards,
Robert.


On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 6:58 AM Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom= .com> wrote:

Alex,

=C2=A0

Will try and get you some captu= res off the devices I=E2=80=99ve been testing on =E2=80=93 in order to make= sure I understood this draft properly, and in light of the deployment stat= us draft, I decided to play a lot more deeply and setup a bit of a lab.=C2=A0 I=E2=80=99m stil= l doing tests and soon as I have some other bits completed will send throug= h the packet captures from those against (Since the XR boxes that I have to= test on seem to have absolutely no ability to setup traffic steering with SRv6 (and I actually have requested details of= how to configure this in the past but gotten no response), I=E2=80=99m jus= t finishing the code to inject packets from outside with a sid stack to tes= t this.=C2=A0 I also acknowledge that I=E2=80=99m running tests against code that is implementing a draft that seems far from final = =E2=80=93 and so shouldn=E2=80=99t have that many expectations.

=C2=A0

That being said, In light of th= e deployment draft =E2=80=93 I do have some concerns that there is a draft = that specifies that people have put this stuff into production =E2=80=93 ye= t the implementation in current shipping code seems to be *way* off the draft and contra= ry to things we have been told in the working group.

=C2=A0

Some of the more interesting fi= nds so far:

=C2=A0

  • In Montreal =E2=80=93 I = questioned the growth in the IGP tables =E2=80=93 since I would have to use= a separate locator on each router =E2=80=93 I was explicitly told this wasn=E2=80=99t necessary and could use the loopbacks = =E2=80=93 not so in current code =E2=80=93 use of the loopback marks the lo= cator as down.

=C2=A0

  • Locator size is not conf= igurable as anything other than a /64

=C2=A0

  • XR 7.0.1 claims a maximu= m number of SID=E2=80=99s at 8000 =E2=80=93 I=E2=80=99m still unclear if th= is limitation in the code is based on locally configured SID=E2=80=99s or received SID=E2=80=99s =E2=80=93 and will run some tests = on this in the coming day or two to verify

=C2=A0

  • There seems to be a limi= t on a single locator per box =E2=80=93 I=E2=80=99m still trying to figure = out what impact this will have in a multi-area or multi-level IGP deployment scenario.

=C2=A0

  • By default when configur= ing a locator =E2=80=93 the device configures a separate End.X (PSP) for ea= ch interface =E2=80=93 now =E2=80=93 this is where things get interesting.=C2=A0 If I am reading the NP text correctly, End.X= (PSP) should be locator:0006::=C2=A0 - However, in the shipping code, that= is not the case at all =E2=80=93 as per the below:

=C2=A0

RP/0/RP0/CPU0:SRV6-R2#show segment-routing srv6 = locator R2 sid Sun Dec 15 04:56:10.913 UTC

SID=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Behavior=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Context=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Ow= ner=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0 State=C2=A0 RW

--------------------------=C2=A0 -----------=C2= =A0 ------------------------------=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ------------------=C2= =A0 -----=C2=A0 --

2001:db8:ee:2:1::=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 End (PSP)=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 'default'= ;:1=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 sidmgr=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 In= Use=C2=A0 Y

2001:db8:ee:2:11::=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 End.OP=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 'de= fault'=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0 sidmgr=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 InUse=C2=A0 Y

2001:db8:ee:2:40::=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 End.X (PSP)=C2=A0 [Gi0/0/0/0, Link-Local]=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 isis-64=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 InUse=C2=A0 Y<= /u>

2001:db8:ee:2:41::=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0End.X (PSP)=C2=A0 [Gi0/0/0/1, Link-Local]=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 isis-64=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 InUse=C2=A0 Y<= u>

2001:db8:ee:2:42::=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 End.X (PSP)=C2=A0 [Gi0/0/0/3, Link-Local]=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 isis-64=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 InUse=C2=A0 Y<= /u>

=C2=A0

So from my perspective =E2=80=93 I have to wonder a= bout the production deployments =E2=80=93 because particularly on this last= point =E2=80=93 if people have been putting this stuff in production, and = the implementation is so different from the text, its going to create some rather interesting breakage going forwa= rd if my reading of the text is correct.

=C2=A0

Anyway =E2=80=93 will send some packet captures hop= efully in the next 48 hours once I=E2=80=99ve got a more complete set of ca= ptures from my lab setup.

=C2=A0

Thanks

=C2=A0

Andrew

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

From: spring <spring-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Alexandre Petrescu
Sent: Monday, 16 December 2019 17:34
To: SPRING WG email list <spring@ietf.org>
Subject: [spring] packet captures for draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network= -programming-06?

=C2=A0

Hi, SPRINGers,

My comments on SRv6 relate to a worry about modifying packets in transit.
In order to better explain myself, or maybe to remove the worry
altogether, I would like to ask for packet dumps of SRv6.

By looking at the packet contents that go into the network it is much
easier to clarify and to avoid misunderstandings.

Alex

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--000000000000110cb00599e39179-- From nobody Tue Dec 17 02:59:56 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D2AE120A16 for ; Tue, 17 Dec 2019 02:59:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.496 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.496 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, FROM_LOCAL_NOVOWEL=0.5, HK_RANDOM_ENVFROM=0.001, HK_RANDOM_FROM=1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dFPYVETpWUwp for ; Tue, 17 Dec 2019 02:59:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ot1-x32b.google.com (mail-ot1-x32b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::32b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F397A120A03 for ; Tue, 17 Dec 2019 02:59:51 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ot1-x32b.google.com with SMTP id p8so13282137oth.10 for ; Tue, 17 Dec 2019 02:59:51 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=pAoG7FG6enmIsyRykhqBoJm7/dSw2gUoEZLCFxHh05k=; b=dgGwGF2Lc3IoGv8cnimRpLFIAE5qaKx3VTqswXQEnVEgWBsrt5USiwwCHnnYRQJAbG WPLterIzX0X+9qPHnejsOfPTFKYEIHBWvBXvmHed9G+p254JT1QdPc+50pdt/UO3OR44 4t7eJIqOh4nyGCKlf2Ji2QQOsae2QY73FvWbOghNx+WTqt3ki2FcxcJdbNfoiCVdmLM6 3czIXgIod66sE5wOsZHAapomNT9glzpRDprRpUJ/AOKwTFIkizUBnpiK7WZnqNIGLw2P jbe63a+blRY+NZb0OXICqb9ZqdjfyC3uoZ0ZOUzDhSD9O23tH631W51hp1Rf3Ga34pcg Dosw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=pAoG7FG6enmIsyRykhqBoJm7/dSw2gUoEZLCFxHh05k=; b=R9fWc5PBrYIb4R0H56INab3Mv+dfm1ioo+s0i794ht5WjXwHSNCMR4zhqOSbpBaTuZ GHC3WnJEb53eIptOJqSEDDBoAPvRuLuCKh9e3Q1JPQrLqj5DWYJM4U4Ik7i/1FHQ1t2g 6omcvDN/HsYKMZ2L7DJSGubpDR9vQjyuDgkgIuNlpTDbM+psXr1jcnt+hXxf8KO0iqxV K4VS+AOiAsqDkPFO53Heg40f03vd3f68IJkA0y6i0i27yvAvqdRvk5VfWtlKZcQYBk62 bYCnfJKiBmE8XUqPfnyO4I+4sBxrKEz8PwtWloyqpwHkKFruLLHAOG7/BWW+mJIk95nM qAEA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUbWfTvz+RhM7ex3lnsFzVuhADTP8cmx/7YNvSBkdE1Jrr1RrED 4xTeII4Lr98HbmYgZH0OeOC00OyObf583/edSVU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxTYMzgjYGerHc++cHQjGybw/xwP5kpP7XIoVk1jTY1SRTUDzlcGX4xo5tkICrYso3zgNYuJhCHXAdZuOXrWNA= X-Received: by 2002:a9d:6005:: with SMTP id h5mr38721538otj.153.1576580391109; Tue, 17 Dec 2019 02:59:51 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Mark Smith Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2019 21:59:38 +1100 Message-ID: To: Robert Raszuk Cc: Andrew Alston , Alexandre Petrescu , SPRING WG email list Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000002c07bf0599e43a01" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] packet captures for draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-06? X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2019 10:59:54 -0000 --0000000000002c07bf0599e43a01 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, 17 Dec 2019, 21:12 Robert Raszuk, wrote: > Hi Andrew, > > My personal opinion is that with below you are now going way outside of > what should be discussed on IETF mailing lists. Hope SPRING charis will > address it. IETF is not the right forum for any vendor implementation > discussion regardless if this is Cisco, Juniper, Arrcus, Nokia etc .... I > recommend you move it to -nsp lists. > I think it matters when a draft is reporting deployments, and there are drafts that are justifying decisions based on apparent operator deployment popularity rather than providing objective technical and engineering justification. The Internet Engineering Task Force shouldn't fall victim to any logical fallacies. https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com > If standards or drafts are not clear you are welcome to ask questions on > those. Any implementation is a private choice of given vendor and in no w= ay > should influence WG decision in regards of the choices we make in protoco= l > design. > > If you think that some implementations violate standards or even WG draft= s > you are more then welcome to propose specific questions to > the implementation reports which chairs would be normally more than happy > to include in the process and ask or even enforce all vendors to fill the > blanks. > > Regards, > Robert. > > > On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 6:58 AM Andrew Alston < > Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom..com > wrote= : > >> Alex, >> >> >> >> Will try and get you some captures off the devices I=E2=80=99ve been tes= ting on =E2=80=93 >> in order to make sure I understood this draft properly, and in light of = the >> deployment status draft, I decided to play a lot more deeply and setup a >> bit of a lab. I=E2=80=99m still doing tests and soon as I have some oth= er bits >> completed will send through the packet captures from those against (Sinc= e >> the XR boxes that I have to test on seem to have absolutely no ability t= o >> setup traffic steering with SRv6 (and I actually have requested details = of >> how to configure this in the past but gotten no response), I=E2=80=99m j= ust >> finishing the code to inject packets from outside with a sid stack to te= st >> this. I also acknowledge that I=E2=80=99m running tests against code th= at is >> implementing a draft that seems far from final =E2=80=93 and so shouldn= =E2=80=99t have that >> many expectations. >> >> >> >> That being said, In light of the deployment draft =E2=80=93 I do have so= me >> concerns that there is a draft that specifies that people have put this >> stuff into production =E2=80=93 yet the implementation in current shippi= ng code >> seems to be **way** off the draft and contrary to things we have been >> told in the working group. >> >> >> >> Some of the more interesting finds so far: >> >> >> >> - In Montreal =E2=80=93 I questioned the growth in the IGP tables =E2= =80=93 since I >> would have to use a separate locator on each router =E2=80=93 I was e= xplicitly told >> this wasn=E2=80=99t necessary and could use the loopbacks =E2=80=93 n= ot so in current code >> =E2=80=93 use of the loopback marks the locator as down. >> >> >> >> - Locator size is not configurable as anything other than a /64 >> >> >> >> - XR 7.0.1 claims a maximum number of SID=E2=80=99s at 8000 =E2=80=93= I=E2=80=99m still >> unclear if this limitation in the code is based on locally configured= SID=E2=80=99s >> or received SID=E2=80=99s =E2=80=93 and will run some tests on this i= n the coming day or >> two to verify >> >> >> >> - There seems to be a limit on a single locator per box =E2=80=93 I= =E2=80=99m still >> trying to figure out what impact this will have in a multi-area or >> multi-level IGP deployment scenario. >> >> >> >> - By default when configuring a locator =E2=80=93 the device configur= es a >> separate End.X (PSP) for each interface =E2=80=93 now =E2=80=93 this = is where things get >> interesting. If I am reading the NP text correctly, End.X (PSP) shou= ld be >> locator:0006:: - However, in the shipping code, that is not the case= at >> all =E2=80=93 as per the below: >> >> >> >> *RP/0/RP0/CPU0:SRV6-R2#show segment-routing srv6 locator R2 sid Sun Dec >> 15 04:56:10.913 UTC* >> >> *SID Behavior >> Context Owner State RW* >> >> *-------------------------- ----------- >> ------------------------------ ------------------ ----- --* >> >> *2001:db8:ee:2:1:: End (PSP) >> 'default':1 sidmgr InUse Y* >> >> *2001:db8:ee:2:11:: End.OP >> 'default' sidmgr InUse Y* >> >> *2001:db8:ee:2:40:: End.X (PSP) [Gi0/0/0/0, >> Link-Local] isis-64 InUse Y* >> >> *2001:db8:ee:2:41:: End.X (PSP) [Gi0/0/0/1, >> Link-Local] isis-64 InUse Y* >> >> *2001:db8:ee:2:42:: End.X (PSP) [Gi0/0/0/3, >> Link-Local] isis-64 InUse Y* >> >> >> >> So from my perspective =E2=80=93 I have to wonder about the production >> deployments =E2=80=93 because particularly on this last point =E2=80=93 = if people have been >> putting this stuff in production, and the implementation is so different >> from the text, its going to create some rather interesting breakage goin= g >> forward if my reading of the text is correct. >> >> >> >> Anyway =E2=80=93 will send some packet captures hopefully in the next 48= hours >> once I=E2=80=99ve got a more complete set of captures from my lab setup. >> >> >> >> Thanks >> >> >> >> Andrew >> >> >> >> >> >> *From:* spring *On Behalf Of *Alexandre >> Petrescu >> *Sent:* Monday, 16 December 2019 17:34 >> *To:* SPRING WG email list >> *Subject:* [spring] packet captures for >> draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-06? >> >> >> >> Hi, SPRINGers, >> >> My comments on SRv6 relate to a worry about modifying packets in transit= . >> >> In order to better explain myself, or maybe to remove the worry >> altogether, I would like to ask for packet dumps of SRv6. >> >> By looking at the packet contents that go into the network it is much >> easier to clarify and to avoid misunderstandings. >> >> Alex >> >> _______________________________________________ >> spring mailing list >> spring@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring >> _______________________________________________ >> spring mailing list >> spring@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring >> > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > --0000000000002c07bf0599e43a01 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Tue, 17 Dec 2019, 21:12 Robert Raszuk, <robert@raszuk.net> wrote:
Hi Andrew,

My personal op= inion is that with below you are now going way outside of what should be di= scussed on IETF mailing lists. Hope SPRING charis will address it. IETF is = not the right forum for any vendor implementation discussion regardless if = this is Cisco, Juniper, Arrcus, Nokia etc .... I recommend you move it to -= nsp lists.=C2=A0

=
I think it matters when a draft is reporting deploy= ments, and there are drafts that are justifying decisions based on apparent= operator deployment popularity rather than providing objective technical a= nd engineering justification.

The Internet Engineering Task Force shouldn't fall victim to any = logical fallacies.








=


If = standards or drafts are not clear you are welcome to ask questions on those= . Any implementation is a private choice of given vendor and in no way shou= ld influence WG decision in regards of the choices we make in protocol desi= gn.=C2=A0

If you=C2=A0think that some implementati= ons violate standards or even WG drafts you are more then welcome to propos= e specific=C2=A0questions to the=C2=A0implementation reports which chairs w= ould be normally more than happy to include in the process and ask or even = enforce all vendors to fill the blanks.=C2=A0

Rega= rds,
Robert.


On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 6:58 AM = Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alst= on@liquidtelecom..com> wrote:

Alex,

=C2=A0

Will try and get you some captu= res off the devices I=E2=80=99ve been testing on =E2=80=93 in order to make= sure I understood this draft properly, and in light of the deployment stat= us draft, I decided to play a lot more deeply and setup a bit of a lab.=C2=A0 I=E2=80=99m stil= l doing tests and soon as I have some other bits completed will send throug= h the packet captures from those against (Since the XR boxes that I have to= test on seem to have absolutely no ability to setup traffic steering with SRv6 (and I actually have requested details of= how to configure this in the past but gotten no response), I=E2=80=99m jus= t finishing the code to inject packets from outside with a sid stack to tes= t this.=C2=A0 I also acknowledge that I=E2=80=99m running tests against code that is implementing a draft that seems far from final = =E2=80=93 and so shouldn=E2=80=99t have that many expectations.

=C2=A0

That being said, In light of th= e deployment draft =E2=80=93 I do have some concerns that there is a draft = that specifies that people have put this stuff into production =E2=80=93 ye= t the implementation in current shipping code seems to be *way* off the draft and contra= ry to things we have been told in the working group.

=C2=A0

Some of the more interesting fi= nds so far:

=C2=A0

  • In Montreal =E2=80=93 I = questioned the growth in the IGP tables =E2=80=93 since I would have to use= a separate locator on each router =E2=80=93 I was explicitly told this wasn=E2=80=99t necessary and could use the loopbacks = =E2=80=93 not so in current code =E2=80=93 use of the loopback marks the lo= cator as down.

=C2=A0

  • Locator size is not conf= igurable as anything other than a /64

=C2=A0

  • XR 7.0.1 claims a maximu= m number of SID=E2=80=99s at 8000 =E2=80=93 I=E2=80=99m still unclear if th= is limitation in the code is based on locally configured SID=E2=80=99s or received SID=E2=80=99s =E2=80=93 and will run some tests = on this in the coming day or two to verify

=C2=A0

  • There seems to be a limi= t on a single locator per box =E2=80=93 I=E2=80=99m still trying to figure = out what impact this will have in a multi-area or multi-level IGP deployment scenario.

=C2=A0

  • By default when configur= ing a locator =E2=80=93 the device configures a separate End.X (PSP) for ea= ch interface =E2=80=93 now =E2=80=93 this is where things get interesting.=C2=A0 If I am reading the NP text correctly, End.X= (PSP) should be locator:0006::=C2=A0 - However, in the shipping code, that= is not the case at all =E2=80=93 as per the below:

=C2=A0

RP/0/RP0/CPU0:SRV6-R2#show segment-routing srv6 = locator R2 sid Sun Dec 15 04:56:10.913 UTC

SID=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Behavior=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Context=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Ow= ner=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0 State=C2=A0 RW

--------------------------=C2=A0 -----------=C2= =A0 ------------------------------=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ------------------=C2= =A0 -----=C2=A0 --

2001:db8:ee:2:1::=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 End (PSP)=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 'default'= ;:1=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 sidmgr=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 In= Use=C2=A0 Y

2001:db8:ee:2:11::=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 End.OP=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 'de= fault'=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0 sidmgr=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 InUse=C2=A0 Y

2001:db8:ee:2:40::=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 End.X (PSP)=C2=A0 [Gi0/0/0/0, Link-Local]=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 isis-64=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 InUse=C2=A0 Y<= /u>

2001:db8:ee:2:41::=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0End.X (PSP)=C2=A0 [Gi0/0/0/1, Link-Local]=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 isis-64=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 InUse=C2=A0 Y<= u>

2001:db8:ee:2:42::=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 End.X (PSP)=C2=A0 [Gi0/0/0/3, Link-Local]=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 isis-64=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 InUse=C2=A0 Y<= /u>

=C2=A0

So from my perspective =E2=80=93 I have to wonder a= bout the production deployments =E2=80=93 because particularly on this last= point =E2=80=93 if people have been putting this stuff in production, and = the implementation is so different from the text, its going to create some rather interesting breakage going forwa= rd if my reading of the text is correct.

=C2=A0

Anyway =E2=80=93 will send some packet captures hop= efully in the next 48 hours once I=E2=80=99ve got a more complete set of ca= ptures from my lab setup.

=C2=A0

Thanks

=C2=A0

Andrew

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

From: spring <spring-bounces= @ietf.org> On Behalf Of Alexandre Petrescu
Sent: Monday, 16 December 2019 17:34
To: SPRING WG email list <spring@i= etf.org>
Subject: [spring] packet captures for draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network= -programming-06?

=C2=A0

Hi, SPRINGers,

My comments on SRv6 relate to a worry about modifying packets in transit.
In order to better explain myself, or maybe to remove the worry
altogether, I would like to ask for packet dumps of SRv6.

By looking at the packet contents that go into the network it is much
easier to clarify and to avoid misunderstandings.

Alex

_______________________________________________
spring mailing list
spring@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/ma= ilman/listinfo/spring

_______________________________________________
spring mailing list
spring@ietf.org
https://www.= ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
_______________________________________________
spring mailing list
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https://www.= ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
--0000000000002c07bf0599e43a01-- From nobody Tue Dec 17 03:04:07 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A25E12012D for ; Tue, 17 Dec 2019 03:03:59 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=raszuk.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hViTyofQJw2P for ; Tue, 17 Dec 2019 03:03:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qt1-x836.google.com (mail-qt1-x836.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::836]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BB9EB120122 for ; Tue, 17 Dec 2019 03:03:55 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qt1-x836.google.com with SMTP id e5so7104354qtm.6 for ; Tue, 17 Dec 2019 03:03:55 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=raszuk.net; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=rPfV8bn4bx5yPaWZbK7ryYoXVV6gytqG9PP2zBeWnP0=; b=NbgT3+BQ7qiLLOuHRgR0gEtVL3vJERLA4QY0ivgKGNr1ILDJNWmOIfdMg+7fyyikSD Y+MctI3f1wJlKoRl0CbkDZQHYOxoP6qIAW93TkFHazfB6umVu1RE07Hr26odhQvdGWfx dI8ibxl22W1Ju4j0BYdWigalFdLfLOkkASfZnOnNHL5556gY1dfLKg9Bk2q8MnF20sv3 E1j31+bUNjrW8B/+b8cyES/5zOSNkazMi8YSK62JLU32oKoFYF2oLD7Ik3caKJrRVMky DyUwTh7u2XXZpf86PNeEce2U/sTT7qlpnRWSATdnR8JByGmD8L7OsksiMBZZfS9BIZn0 os4w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=rPfV8bn4bx5yPaWZbK7ryYoXVV6gytqG9PP2zBeWnP0=; b=nRD0xkJrgFIRIDY5LqinmM4f004hS2xsyOPBBmUo5R1IE9UADIBpUHBxxnNi3rFEin G2Hz/7YJrq+DUfVo77/Lm711e4uZSYIYTaCee2kZUVBKi237w7GTrFqtiSAvhfrSukWC J1t/QxtFrVrvr0E07wZ+SACQVXhy3Nao2XQGhZzDDKBAErGwazQ1Vihl1AqDNszWnBCW j5gGUJtVqhcXWQGzQameWQwa3gRljlrbTaeZVOwz29Fg/7a/KiRd6TxZo67AuaZq/6Nr Ib4Jr9ihW26NhWeAYT8uLFSlK5P+7ih0JGuQGQIX/XAs6zzgyjoqSHvLX4aMeLu/Ryex igzA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUhJbEXSCUjQyxZGkKDrTRLr6PO7bA88JmhWEcAIJRXjyXjKCea lnC4/uPnNElT+G1gYwV6sSkZj5EHWkxkexJTG14jDA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyoX+HI0IVnlPexZvIphJIxeVSr2O89onKYeE0QbqPSKgdfJ4cAC+P9A3gxK65FzsWPI1HCh0GGNMBG4/7dKx0= X-Received: by 2002:ac8:3703:: with SMTP id o3mr3843598qtb.208.1576580634675; Tue, 17 Dec 2019 03:03:54 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Robert Raszuk Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2019 12:03:41 +0100 Message-ID: To: Mark Smith Cc: Andrew Alston , Alexandre Petrescu , SPRING WG email list Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000b0a1fd0599e44886" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] packet captures for draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-06? X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2019 11:04:00 -0000 --000000000000b0a1fd0599e44886 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Amazing .. but I agree with you again ! ;) Cheers R. On Tue, Dec 17, 2019, 11:59 Mark Smith wrote: > > > On Tue, 17 Dec 2019, 21:12 Robert Raszuk, wrote: > >> Hi Andrew, >> >> My personal opinion is that with below you are now going way outside of >> what should be discussed on IETF mailing lists. Hope SPRING charis will >> address it. IETF is not the right forum for any vendor implementation >> discussion regardless if this is Cisco, Juniper, Arrcus, Nokia etc .... = I >> recommend you move it to -nsp lists. >> > > I think it matters when a draft is reporting deployments, and there are > drafts that are justifying decisions based on apparent operator deploymen= t > popularity rather than providing objective technical and engineering > justification. > > The Internet Engineering Task Force shouldn't fall victim to any logical > fallacies. > > https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com > > > > > > > > > >> If standards or drafts are not clear you are welcome to ask questions on >> those. Any implementation is a private choice of given vendor and in no = way >> should influence WG decision in regards of the choices we make in protoc= ol >> design. >> >> If you think that some implementations violate standards or even WG >> drafts you are more then welcome to propose specific questions to >> the implementation reports which chairs would be normally more than happ= y >> to include in the process and ask or even enforce all vendors to fill th= e >> blanks. >> >> Regards, >> Robert. >> >> >> On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 6:58 AM Andrew Alston < >> Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom..com > >> wrote: >> >>> Alex, >>> >>> >>> >>> Will try and get you some captures off the devices I=E2=80=99ve been te= sting on >>> =E2=80=93 in order to make sure I understood this draft properly, and i= n light of >>> the deployment status draft, I decided to play a lot more deeply and se= tup >>> a bit of a lab. I=E2=80=99m still doing tests and soon as I have some = other bits >>> completed will send through the packet captures from those against (Sin= ce >>> the XR boxes that I have to test on seem to have absolutely no ability = to >>> setup traffic steering with SRv6 (and I actually have requested details= of >>> how to configure this in the past but gotten no response), I=E2=80=99m = just >>> finishing the code to inject packets from outside with a sid stack to t= est >>> this. I also acknowledge that I=E2=80=99m running tests against code t= hat is >>> implementing a draft that seems far from final =E2=80=93 and so shouldn= =E2=80=99t have that >>> many expectations. >>> >>> >>> >>> That being said, In light of the deployment draft =E2=80=93 I do have s= ome >>> concerns that there is a draft that specifies that people have put this >>> stuff into production =E2=80=93 yet the implementation in current shipp= ing code >>> seems to be **way** off the draft and contrary to things we have been >>> told in the working group. >>> >>> >>> >>> Some of the more interesting finds so far: >>> >>> >>> >>> - In Montreal =E2=80=93 I questioned the growth in the IGP tables = =E2=80=93 since I >>> would have to use a separate locator on each router =E2=80=93 I was = explicitly told >>> this wasn=E2=80=99t necessary and could use the loopbacks =E2=80=93 = not so in current code >>> =E2=80=93 use of the loopback marks the locator as down. >>> >>> >>> >>> - Locator size is not configurable as anything other than a /64 >>> >>> >>> >>> - XR 7.0.1 claims a maximum number of SID=E2=80=99s at 8000 =E2=80= =93 I=E2=80=99m still >>> unclear if this limitation in the code is based on locally configure= d SID=E2=80=99s >>> or received SID=E2=80=99s =E2=80=93 and will run some tests on this = in the coming day or >>> two to verify >>> >>> >>> >>> - There seems to be a limit on a single locator per box =E2=80=93 I= =E2=80=99m still >>> trying to figure out what impact this will have in a multi-area or >>> multi-level IGP deployment scenario. >>> >>> >>> >>> - By default when configuring a locator =E2=80=93 the device configu= res a >>> separate End.X (PSP) for each interface =E2=80=93 now =E2=80=93 this= is where things get >>> interesting. If I am reading the NP text correctly, End.X (PSP) sho= uld be >>> locator:0006:: - However, in the shipping code, that is not the cas= e at >>> all =E2=80=93 as per the below: >>> >>> >>> >>> *RP/0/RP0/CPU0:SRV6-R2#show segment-routing srv6 locator R2 sid Sun Dec >>> 15 04:56:10.913 UTC* >>> >>> *SID Behavior >>> Context Owner State RW* >>> >>> *-------------------------- ----------- >>> ------------------------------ ------------------ ----- --* >>> >>> *2001:db8:ee:2:1:: End (PSP) >>> 'default':1 sidmgr InUse Y* >>> >>> *2001:db8:ee:2:11:: End.OP >>> 'default' sidmgr InUse Y* >>> >>> *2001:db8:ee:2:40:: End.X (PSP) [Gi0/0/0/0, >>> Link-Local] isis-64 InUse Y* >>> >>> *2001:db8:ee:2:41:: End.X (PSP) [Gi0/0/0/1, >>> Link-Local] isis-64 InUse Y* >>> >>> *2001:db8:ee:2:42:: End.X (PSP) [Gi0/0/0/3, >>> Link-Local] isis-64 InUse Y* >>> >>> >>> >>> So from my perspective =E2=80=93 I have to wonder about the production >>> deployments =E2=80=93 because particularly on this last point =E2=80=93= if people have been >>> putting this stuff in production, and the implementation is so differen= t >>> from the text, its going to create some rather interesting breakage goi= ng >>> forward if my reading of the text is correct. >>> >>> >>> >>> Anyway =E2=80=93 will send some packet captures hopefully in the next 4= 8 hours >>> once I=E2=80=99ve got a more complete set of captures from my lab setup= . >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks >>> >>> >>> >>> Andrew >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* spring *On Behalf Of *Alexandre >>> Petrescu >>> *Sent:* Monday, 16 December 2019 17:34 >>> *To:* SPRING WG email list >>> *Subject:* [spring] packet captures for >>> draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-06? >>> >>> >>> >>> Hi, SPRINGers, >>> >>> My comments on SRv6 relate to a worry about modifying packets in transi= t. >>> >>> In order to better explain myself, or maybe to remove the worry >>> altogether, I would like to ask for packet dumps of SRv6. >>> >>> By looking at the packet contents that go into the network it is much >>> easier to clarify and to avoid misunderstandings. >>> >>> Alex >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> spring mailing list >>> spring@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring >>> _______________________________________________ >>> spring mailing list >>> spring@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> spring mailing list >> spring@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring >> > --000000000000b0a1fd0599e44886 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Amazing .. but I agree with you again ! ;)

Cheers
R.
=
On Tue= , Dec 17, 2019, 11:59 Mark Smith <markzzzsmith@gmail.com> wrote:


On Tue, 17 Dec 2019, 21:12 Robert Raszuk, <= ;robert@raszuk.net> wrote:
=
Hi Andrew,

My personal opinion is that with below you are now going way outside of = what should be discussed on IETF mailing lists. Hope SPRING charis will add= ress it. IETF is not the right forum for any vendor implementation discussi= on regardless if this is Cisco, Juniper, Arrcus, Nokia etc .... I recommend= you move it to -nsp lists.=C2=A0

I think it matters when a draft is= reporting deployments, and there are drafts that are justifying decisions = based on apparent operator deployment popularity rather than providing obje= ctive technical and engineering justification.

<= /div>
The Internet Engineering Task Force shouldn't fa= ll victim to any logical fallacies.






=



If standards or drafts= are not clear you are welcome to ask questions on those. Any implementatio= n is a private choice of given vendor and in no way should influence WG dec= ision in regards of the choices we make in protocol design.=C2=A0

If you=C2=A0think that some implementations violate standar= ds or even WG drafts you are more then welcome to propose specific=C2=A0que= stions to the=C2=A0implementation reports which chairs would be normally mo= re than happy to include in the process and ask or even enforce all vendors= to fill the blanks.=C2=A0

Regards,
Robe= rt.


On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 6:58 AM Andrew Alston <<= a href=3D"mailto:Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com" rel=3D"noreferrer norefer= rer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">Andrew.Alston@liqui= dtelecom..com> wrote:

Alex,

=C2=A0

Will try and get you some captu= res off the devices I=E2=80=99ve been testing on =E2=80=93 in order to make= sure I understood this draft properly, and in light of the deployment stat= us draft, I decided to play a lot more deeply and setup a bit of a lab.=C2=A0 I=E2=80=99m stil= l doing tests and soon as I have some other bits completed will send throug= h the packet captures from those against (Since the XR boxes that I have to= test on seem to have absolutely no ability to setup traffic steering with SRv6 (and I actually have requested details of= how to configure this in the past but gotten no response), I=E2=80=99m jus= t finishing the code to inject packets from outside with a sid stack to tes= t this.=C2=A0 I also acknowledge that I=E2=80=99m running tests against code that is implementing a draft that seems far from final = =E2=80=93 and so shouldn=E2=80=99t have that many expectations.

=C2=A0

That being said, In light of th= e deployment draft =E2=80=93 I do have some concerns that there is a draft = that specifies that people have put this stuff into production =E2=80=93 ye= t the implementation in current shipping code seems to be *way* off the draft and contra= ry to things we have been told in the working group.

=C2=A0

Some of the more interesting fi= nds so far:

=C2=A0

  • In Montreal =E2=80=93 I = questioned the growth in the IGP tables =E2=80=93 since I would have to use= a separate locator on each router =E2=80=93 I was explicitly told this wasn=E2=80=99t necessary and could use the loopbacks = =E2=80=93 not so in current code =E2=80=93 use of the loopback marks the lo= cator as down.

=C2=A0

  • Locator size is not conf= igurable as anything other than a /64

=C2=A0

  • XR 7.0.1 claims a maximu= m number of SID=E2=80=99s at 8000 =E2=80=93 I=E2=80=99m still unclear if th= is limitation in the code is based on locally configured SID=E2=80=99s or received SID=E2=80=99s =E2=80=93 and will run some tests = on this in the coming day or two to verify

=C2=A0

  • There seems to be a limi= t on a single locator per box =E2=80=93 I=E2=80=99m still trying to figure = out what impact this will have in a multi-area or multi-level IGP deployment scenario.

=C2=A0

  • By default when configur= ing a locator =E2=80=93 the device configures a separate End.X (PSP) for ea= ch interface =E2=80=93 now =E2=80=93 this is where things get interesting.=C2=A0 If I am reading the NP text correctly, End.X= (PSP) should be locator:0006::=C2=A0 - However, in the shipping code, that= is not the case at all =E2=80=93 as per the below:

=C2=A0

RP/0/RP0/CPU0:SRV6-R2#show segment-routing srv6 = locator R2 sid Sun Dec 15 04:56:10.913 UTC

SID=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Behavior=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Context=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Ow= ner=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0 State=C2=A0 RW

--------------------------=C2=A0 -----------=C2= =A0 ------------------------------=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ------------------=C2= =A0 -----=C2=A0 --

2001:db8:ee:2:1::=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 End (PSP)=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 'default'= ;:1=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 sidmgr=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 In= Use=C2=A0 Y

2001:db8:ee:2:11::=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 End.OP=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 'de= fault'=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0 sidmgr=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 InUse=C2=A0 Y

2001:db8:ee:2:40::=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 End.X (PSP)=C2=A0 [Gi0/0/0/0, Link-Local]=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 isis-64=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 InUse=C2=A0 Y<= /u>

2001:db8:ee:2:41::=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0End.X (PSP)=C2=A0 [Gi0/0/0/1, Link-Local]=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 isis-64=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 InUse=C2=A0 Y<= u>

2001:db8:ee:2:42::=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 End.X (PSP)=C2=A0 [Gi0/0/0/3, Link-Local]=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 isis-64=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 InUse=C2=A0 Y<= /u>

=C2=A0

So from my perspective =E2=80=93 I have to wonder a= bout the production deployments =E2=80=93 because particularly on this last= point =E2=80=93 if people have been putting this stuff in production, and = the implementation is so different from the text, its going to create some rather interesting breakage going forwa= rd if my reading of the text is correct.

=C2=A0

Anyway =E2=80=93 will send some packet captures hop= efully in the next 48 hours once I=E2=80=99ve got a more complete set of ca= ptures from my lab setup.

=C2=A0

Thanks

=C2=A0

Andrew

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

From: spring <spr= ing-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Alexandre Petrescu
Sent: Monday, 16 December 2019 17:34
To: SPRING WG email list <spring@ietf.org>
Subject: [spring] packet captures for draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network= -programming-06?

=C2=A0

Hi, SPRINGers,

My comments on SRv6 relate to a worry about modifying packets in transit.
In order to better explain myself, or maybe to remove the worry
altogether, I would like to ask for packet dumps of SRv6.

By looking at the packet contents that go into the network it is much
easier to clarify and to avoid misunderstandings.

Alex

_______________________________________________
spring mailing list
spring@ietf.org
https://www.= ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring

_______________________________________________
spring mailing list
spring@ietf.org
h= ttps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
_______________________________________________
spring mailing list
spring@ietf.org
h= ttps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
--000000000000b0a1fd0599e44886-- From nobody Tue Dec 17 03:21:55 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D121120088 for ; Tue, 17 Dec 2019 03:21:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.496 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.496 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, FROM_LOCAL_NOVOWEL=0.5, HK_RANDOM_ENVFROM=0.001, HK_RANDOM_FROM=1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ccGWpffgd0v6 for ; Tue, 17 Dec 2019 03:21:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ot1-x32d.google.com (mail-ot1-x32d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::32d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C91C612004C for ; Tue, 17 Dec 2019 03:21:49 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ot1-x32d.google.com with SMTP id 77so13369729oty.6 for ; Tue, 17 Dec 2019 03:21:49 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=YvWuwZ68F2HH1UxGqxJ/BnTsPNc2K41NZ+zlwtVrS4A=; b=IMA0+iNu3uBn5SrSx7LWngvJHdMnkvuOMLYekO7XKIT7INryiAtetFi779upwR3tes Sh0aIVxNfMGR45kh8xf6lnC1I1zkoMbGq3aw79rggU9ubXnQ1UVRb0t+sDGNOmMA2hSm N1MMjPgh6AbeWN1L4jBwv7kFz9mMrhP8vbR7sOZlPEkXkDDllLZwlHIK0uw9L+wtYmFM +ZBaRpnPk0YYypS7vP3l7hdXr/066X60yrg42K9DTSbF2yKtjOUXjsilEY4W1O8VsibQ 22lM/Ja1hVCHMm8k+u6+gYL/3VsfYC1KwsIi9L437hoVmofiX/zK4uyPaZFtRb/k+AEX ZkdQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=YvWuwZ68F2HH1UxGqxJ/BnTsPNc2K41NZ+zlwtVrS4A=; b=mcKh27AncXQNbidW59am5Nu4iuDvyou8LEFkzjwM0H8n9zXnm4kRCaYhLZx2CMx+wl vjTkgoqPKici0F0paT9Uzv0RA3XdFr37XE1TATP7C7DA6yNEQXzEry/AC5l07KohUH/5 Ss+2YHwHGVuHpsZsca1psEkpPXvyYECmkkLaDk75DbkRORb3m5NY7+Qfu2laZN9a1t+s iKxUCN3xmZR5u7qohgT99iJ/xjm2iPxJyiMVhcrY/JLkd73SXdVfr01vbS/AonTm2BHy MiNUDhbcqnhmULPtkLXYwK2hfkK9IfN9SgFTKO5qbD6wDwz1hxx9ZtESEPkVr/AgXhSW ehTQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWa4yZW9eT2TQgBDnMfMMrQxUqxIUNEXR31ktdr2YklGZjl/gBP qau4MwesIegEy/OHKD53yN3+3yCp0b02RPCBgho= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxe7V8V4Whewjop8VFiniJTG2fJ+yUM2gcchTWajxMA8tPIVRdlTnEcvpD2DwvbfEhvXuvpZ9WBsW+/Nuhr7jI= X-Received: by 2002:a9d:798e:: with SMTP id h14mr521621otm.257.1576581709196; Tue, 17 Dec 2019 03:21:49 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Mark Smith Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2019 22:21:36 +1100 Message-ID: To: Robert Raszuk Cc: Andrew Alston , Alexandre Petrescu , SPRING WG email list Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000bc745f0599e48800" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] packet captures for draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-06? X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2019 11:21:54 -0000 --000000000000bc745f0599e48800 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, 17 Dec 2019, 22:03 Robert Raszuk, wrote: > Amazing .. but I agree with you again ! ;) > Hopefully it shouldn't be all that amazing, I try hard to be logical and not fall victim to all the biases we humans have. (I'm planning to release a line of digital hifi cables for audiophiles under the brand "Confirmation Bias". I figure I should get in on the $2900 = USD Ethernet cables market. Those 1s and 0s know which direction they're going, and really care if it's the wrong way!) > Cheers > R. > > On Tue, Dec 17, 2019, 11:59 Mark Smith wrote: > >> >> >> On Tue, 17 Dec 2019, 21:12 Robert Raszuk, wrote: >> >>> Hi Andrew, >>> >>> My personal opinion is that with below you are now going way outside of >>> what should be discussed on IETF mailing lists. Hope SPRING charis will >>> address it. IETF is not the right forum for any vendor implementation >>> discussion regardless if this is Cisco, Juniper, Arrcus, Nokia etc ....= I >>> recommend you move it to -nsp lists. >>> >> >> I think it matters when a draft is reporting deployments, and there are >> drafts that are justifying decisions based on apparent operator deployme= nt >> popularity rather than providing objective technical and engineering >> justification. >> >> The Internet Engineering Task Force shouldn't fall victim to any logical >> fallacies. >> >> https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> If standards or drafts are not clear you are welcome to ask questions o= n >>> those. Any implementation is a private choice of given vendor and in no= way >>> should influence WG decision in regards of the choices we make in proto= col >>> design. >>> >>> If you think that some implementations violate standards or even WG >>> drafts you are more then welcome to propose specific questions to >>> the implementation reports which chairs would be normally more than hap= py >>> to include in the process and ask or even enforce all vendors to fill t= he >>> blanks. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Robert. >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 6:58 AM Andrew Alston < >>> Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom..com > >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Alex, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Will try and get you some captures off the devices I=E2=80=99ve been t= esting on >>>> =E2=80=93 in order to make sure I understood this draft properly, and = in light of >>>> the deployment status draft, I decided to play a lot more deeply and s= etup >>>> a bit of a lab. I=E2=80=99m still doing tests and soon as I have some= other bits >>>> completed will send through the packet captures from those against (Si= nce >>>> the XR boxes that I have to test on seem to have absolutely no ability= to >>>> setup traffic steering with SRv6 (and I actually have requested detail= s of >>>> how to configure this in the past but gotten no response), I=E2=80=99m= just >>>> finishing the code to inject packets from outside with a sid stack to = test >>>> this. I also acknowledge that I=E2=80=99m running tests against code = that is >>>> implementing a draft that seems far from final =E2=80=93 and so should= n=E2=80=99t have that >>>> many expectations. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> That being said, In light of the deployment draft =E2=80=93 I do have = some >>>> concerns that there is a draft that specifies that people have put thi= s >>>> stuff into production =E2=80=93 yet the implementation in current ship= ping code >>>> seems to be **way** off the draft and contrary to things we have been >>>> told in the working group. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Some of the more interesting finds so far: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> - In Montreal =E2=80=93 I questioned the growth in the IGP tables = =E2=80=93 since I >>>> would have to use a separate locator on each router =E2=80=93 I was= explicitly told >>>> this wasn=E2=80=99t necessary and could use the loopbacks =E2=80=93= not so in current code >>>> =E2=80=93 use of the loopback marks the locator as down. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> - Locator size is not configurable as anything other than a /64 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> - XR 7.0.1 claims a maximum number of SID=E2=80=99s at 8000 =E2=80= =93 I=E2=80=99m still >>>> unclear if this limitation in the code is based on locally configur= ed SID=E2=80=99s >>>> or received SID=E2=80=99s =E2=80=93 and will run some tests on this= in the coming day or >>>> two to verify >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> - There seems to be a limit on a single locator per box =E2=80=93 I= =E2=80=99m still >>>> trying to figure out what impact this will have in a multi-area or >>>> multi-level IGP deployment scenario. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> - By default when configuring a locator =E2=80=93 the device config= ures a >>>> separate End.X (PSP) for each interface =E2=80=93 now =E2=80=93 thi= s is where things get >>>> interesting. If I am reading the NP text correctly, End.X (PSP) sh= ould be >>>> locator:0006:: - However, in the shipping code, that is not the ca= se at >>>> all =E2=80=93 as per the below: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> *RP/0/RP0/CPU0:SRV6-R2#show segment-routing srv6 locator R2 sid Sun De= c >>>> 15 04:56:10.913 UTC* >>>> >>>> *SID Behavior >>>> Context Owner State RW* >>>> >>>> *-------------------------- ----------- >>>> ------------------------------ ------------------ ----- --* >>>> >>>> *2001:db8:ee:2:1:: End (PSP) >>>> 'default':1 sidmgr InUse Y* >>>> >>>> *2001:db8:ee:2:11:: End.OP >>>> 'default' sidmgr InUse Y* >>>> >>>> *2001:db8:ee:2:40:: End.X (PSP) [Gi0/0/0/0, >>>> Link-Local] isis-64 InUse Y* >>>> >>>> *2001:db8:ee:2:41:: End.X (PSP) [Gi0/0/0/1, >>>> Link-Local] isis-64 InUse Y* >>>> >>>> *2001:db8:ee:2:42:: End.X (PSP) [Gi0/0/0/3, >>>> Link-Local] isis-64 InUse Y* >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> So from my perspective =E2=80=93 I have to wonder about the production >>>> deployments =E2=80=93 because particularly on this last point =E2=80= =93 if people have been >>>> putting this stuff in production, and the implementation is so differe= nt >>>> from the text, its going to create some rather interesting breakage go= ing >>>> forward if my reading of the text is correct. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Anyway =E2=80=93 will send some packet captures hopefully in the next = 48 hours >>>> once I=E2=80=99ve got a more complete set of captures from my lab setu= p. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Andrew >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> *From:* spring *On Behalf Of *Alexandre >>>> Petrescu >>>> *Sent:* Monday, 16 December 2019 17:34 >>>> *To:* SPRING WG email list >>>> *Subject:* [spring] packet captures for >>>> draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-06? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Hi, SPRINGers, >>>> >>>> My comments on SRv6 relate to a worry about modifying packets in >>>> transit. >>>> >>>> In order to better explain myself, or maybe to remove the worry >>>> altogether, I would like to ask for packet dumps of SRv6. >>>> >>>> By looking at the packet contents that go into the network it is much >>>> easier to clarify and to avoid misunderstandings. >>>> >>>> Alex >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> spring mailing list >>>> spring@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> spring mailing list >>>> spring@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> spring mailing list >>> spring@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring >>> >> --000000000000bc745f0599e48800 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Tue, 17 Dec 2019, 22:03 Robert Raszuk, <robert@raszuk.net> wrote:
Amazing .. but I agree with you again ! ;)

Hopefully it= shouldn't be all that amazing, I try hard to be logical and not fall v= ictim to all the biases we humans have.

(I'm planning to release a line of digital hifi cables = for audiophiles under the brand "Confirmation Bias". I figure I s= hould get in on the $2900=C2=A0USD Ethernet ca= bles market. Those 1s and 0s know which direction they're going, and re= ally care if it's the wrong way!)



Cheers
R.

On Tue, Dec 17, 2019, 1= 1:59 Mark Smith <markzzzsmith@gmail.com>= ; wrote:

On Tu= e, 17 Dec 2019, 21:12 Robert Raszuk, <robert@raszuk.net> wrote:
Hi Andrew,

My personal opinion is that with below you are now going way outside of wh= at should be discussed on IETF mailing lists. Hope SPRING charis will addre= ss it. IETF is not the right forum for any vendor implementation discussion= regardless if this is Cisco, Juniper, Arrcus, Nokia etc .... I recommend y= ou move it to -nsp lists.=C2=A0

I think it matters when a draft is r= eporting deployments, and there are drafts that are justifying decisions ba= sed on apparent operator deployment popularity rather than providing object= ive technical and engineering justification.

The Internet Engineering Task Force shouldn't fall= victim to any logical fallacies.










If standards or drafts are not clear you are welcome to ask question= s on those. Any implementation is a private choice of given vendor and in n= o way should influence WG decision in regards of the choices we make in pro= tocol design.=C2=A0

If you=C2=A0think that some im= plementations violate standards or even WG drafts you are more then welcome= to propose specific=C2=A0questions to the=C2=A0implementation reports whic= h chairs would be normally more than happy to include in the process and as= k or even enforce all vendors to fill the blanks.=C2=A0

Regards,
Robert.


On Tue, Dec 17, 2019= at 6:58 AM Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom..c= om> wrote:

Alex,

=C2=A0

Will try and get you some captu= res off the devices I=E2=80=99ve been testing on =E2=80=93 in order to make= sure I understood this draft properly, and in light of the deployment stat= us draft, I decided to play a lot more deeply and setup a bit of a lab.=C2=A0 I=E2=80=99m stil= l doing tests and soon as I have some other bits completed will send throug= h the packet captures from those against (Since the XR boxes that I have to= test on seem to have absolutely no ability to setup traffic steering with SRv6 (and I actually have requested details of= how to configure this in the past but gotten no response), I=E2=80=99m jus= t finishing the code to inject packets from outside with a sid stack to tes= t this.=C2=A0 I also acknowledge that I=E2=80=99m running tests against code that is implementing a draft that seems far from final = =E2=80=93 and so shouldn=E2=80=99t have that many expectations.

=C2=A0

That being said, In light of th= e deployment draft =E2=80=93 I do have some concerns that there is a draft = that specifies that people have put this stuff into production =E2=80=93 ye= t the implementation in current shipping code seems to be *way* off the draft and contra= ry to things we have been told in the working group.

=C2=A0

Some of the more interesting fi= nds so far:

=C2=A0

  • In Montreal =E2=80=93 I = questioned the growth in the IGP tables =E2=80=93 since I would have to use= a separate locator on each router =E2=80=93 I was explicitly told this wasn=E2=80=99t necessary and could use the loopbacks = =E2=80=93 not so in current code =E2=80=93 use of the loopback marks the lo= cator as down.

=C2=A0

  • Locator size is not conf= igurable as anything other than a /64

=C2=A0

  • XR 7.0.1 claims a maximu= m number of SID=E2=80=99s at 8000 =E2=80=93 I=E2=80=99m still unclear if th= is limitation in the code is based on locally configured SID=E2=80=99s or received SID=E2=80=99s =E2=80=93 and will run some tests = on this in the coming day or two to verify

=C2=A0

  • There seems to be a limi= t on a single locator per box =E2=80=93 I=E2=80=99m still trying to figure = out what impact this will have in a multi-area or multi-level IGP deployment scenario.

=C2=A0

  • By default when configur= ing a locator =E2=80=93 the device configures a separate End.X (PSP) for ea= ch interface =E2=80=93 now =E2=80=93 this is where things get interesting.=C2=A0 If I am reading the NP text correctly, End.X= (PSP) should be locator:0006::=C2=A0 - However, in the shipping code, that= is not the case at all =E2=80=93 as per the below:

=C2=A0

RP/0/RP0/CPU0:SRV6-R2#show segment-routing srv6 = locator R2 sid Sun Dec 15 04:56:10.913 UTC

SID=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Behavior=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Context=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Ow= ner=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0 State=C2=A0 RW

--------------------------=C2=A0 -----------=C2= =A0 ------------------------------=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ------------------=C2= =A0 -----=C2=A0 --

2001:db8:ee:2:1::=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 End (PSP)=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 'default'= ;:1=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 sidmgr=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 In= Use=C2=A0 Y

2001:db8:ee:2:11::=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 End.OP=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 'de= fault'=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0 sidmgr=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 InUse=C2=A0 Y

2001:db8:ee:2:40::=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 End.X (PSP)=C2=A0 [Gi0/0/0/0, Link-Local]=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 isis-64=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 InUse=C2=A0 Y<= /u>

2001:db8:ee:2:41::=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0End.X (PSP)=C2=A0 [Gi0/0/0/1, Link-Local]=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 isis-64=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 InUse=C2=A0 Y<= u>

2001:db8:ee:2:42::=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 End.X (PSP)=C2=A0 [Gi0/0/0/3, Link-Local]=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 isis-64=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 InUse=C2=A0 Y<= /u>

=C2=A0

So from my perspective =E2=80=93 I have to wonder a= bout the production deployments =E2=80=93 because particularly on this last= point =E2=80=93 if people have been putting this stuff in production, and = the implementation is so different from the text, its going to create some rather interesting breakage going forwa= rd if my reading of the text is correct.

=C2=A0

Anyway =E2=80=93 will send some packet captures hop= efully in the next 48 hours once I=E2=80=99ve got a more complete set of ca= ptures from my lab setup.

=C2=A0

Thanks

=C2=A0

Andrew

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

From: spring <spring-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Alexandre Petrescu
Sent: Monday, 16 December 2019 17:34
To: SPRING WG email list <spring@ietf.org>
Subject: [spring] packet captures for draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network= -programming-06?

=C2=A0

Hi, SPRINGers,

My comments on SRv6 relate to a worry about modifying packets in transit.
In order to better explain myself, or maybe to remove the worry
altogether, I would like to ask for packet dumps of SRv6.

By looking at the packet contents that go into the network it is much
easier to clarify and to avoid misunderstandings.

Alex

_______________________________________________
spring mailing list
s= pring@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring

_______________________________________________
spring mailing list
s= pring@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sprin= g
_______________________________________________
spring mailing list
s= pring@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sprin= g
--000000000000bc745f0599e48800-- From nobody Tue Dec 17 03:46:06 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFCC6120180 for ; Tue, 17 Dec 2019 03:46:01 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=pyxisworks-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4ByRLnI85yQT for ; Tue, 17 Dec 2019 03:45:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ot1-x334.google.com (mail-ot1-x334.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::334]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B7CFD12016E for ; Tue, 17 Dec 2019 03:45:57 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ot1-x334.google.com with SMTP id c22so2163638otj.13 for ; Tue, 17 Dec 2019 03:45:57 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=pyxisworks-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=JQH3nkTVOw9CSyOe1N8JYrIYdl3zX1o54PUdxSxxURU=; b=dJqQemfGbgca+CQCTaGFd5Qi3t8Ub5wJlGkOS7tTREveoINJAr+/U3BPT0sq+cYaId HzT6/IcovkBRw1qZ05n/x1/YXpTDgs0EQ0zfrNRbhLT9JXerNykzBySkEMWlCvshAR5d Q3eJ98CMy9Li6ZAjisqVQ8t/Piduw+JJjrUKKOkQPTke9vPaVy6TJkdFRc7asRSIw654 TtsK/joQfi2TxP84lR2ETvBA/h2y9ZLAkO5FRgXKtjstCfeaNvs9eaKWc0QQNGf4bA3R +31M/JoB6UPPv32890EuRjOM28cTvAcpUgjkcjnu6l87vK1uN0bjg0/GVgRNE6omQKEI L1SQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=JQH3nkTVOw9CSyOe1N8JYrIYdl3zX1o54PUdxSxxURU=; b=EtLkULnfuEfhRDl47g9Pf0TJyfSdGCn5LGGLyPDRJbT/tegkblhQUc/pMBgVdWDUAZ KsSTIrXTkxWh9ywlVx/nNp4EVddCc6D8jE89Lan8wIbUVmCRaPT8KKhGVVnCauDPWJSa yBbIruWu/XR56LqSSS5DCWe6EPS8dpZCAgR/54joRZNopbByZcpJ3vhl3dJXhkf7e2pm bOtSFVqmhEIAaSMWTCi+wj+vd3sfptkTzzcBEV6tHpX62eHC8fZayrJm6oosa725RaKb l5FyDd2twgJMByBlkoj4ZC0c2lVsA66CS5k314KlRC8fHrUL3Q80gBfwr9PRv6mY9GYY f0vA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUOlnkjsxuINh78eUFiNzmaGwYimL8Mmg4Bwui8+SLlkify5X3X NhO6Ucn1kgr1o3Z1W/wjs5WpKowi9zV9DCToeDQkJA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxfYheXib0BYZc3ovAT+bFlKIiVhSO0ayg1Tq1FBQjs8uBylp5kCjsyJgDWhHMc3LYgdaBwEU84gHb7UuLCyWo= X-Received: by 2002:a9d:149:: with SMTP id 67mr2803723otu.217.1576583157036; Tue, 17 Dec 2019 03:45:57 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <38b14bf5-b6d9-4d46-ad1d-d26d3376df51@Spark> In-Reply-To: From: Nat Kao Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2019 19:45:44 +0800 Message-ID: To: Robert Raszuk Cc: SPRING WG , Nat Kao Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000008cb7c0599e4df5b" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Different MSDs for different traffic types on the same headend. X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2019 11:46:02 -0000 --00000000000008cb7c0599e4df5b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, Robert. Surely the current BMI-MSD definition is sufficient for platforms without artificial boundaries. In this ideal case, maximum labels available for SR-TE policy can be inferred from BMI-MSD and VPN routes. However we have 3 different artificial boundaries across 3 different platforms now. Hardcoding these boundaries might not scale well. (Especially different OS versions may behave differently.) A standard mechanism to discover this boundary would greatly help constructing SR-TE policy candidate paths. Regards, Nat. On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 5:58 PM Robert Raszuk wrote: > Hi Nat, > > I am having a bit of difficulty understanding reasoning and the way you > are separating transport from service labels. > > The processing label limit usually comes from data plane capabilities of > the platform namely LFIB or hardware below. > > Such layer is function agnostic and it does not matter what role the labe= l > serves. > > Label lookup results in pointer to a adj. rewrite on the outbound side. I= t > really does not matter if the adjacent peer is your P router, segment > endpoint or CE. > > Of course there are number of processing exceptions - for example concept > of aggregate VPN label, additional header modifications etc ... > > Likely some platforms put such artificial boundary between transport and > service hence your request. But if so IMHO this is more of an issue with > specific platform or its marketing message then IETF :). > > Many thx, > R. > > > > > > > > On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 6:06 AM Nat Kao wrote: > >> Hi, Jeff. >> >> Consider a headend that can perform 1 of the following 2 modes(but not >> both): >> 1) Plain IPv4: 6 transport labels + 0 service label =3D> traffic can be >> steered into a 6-label SR-TE policy. >> 2) Any type of VPN: 3 transport labels + 1~3 service labels =3D> traffic >> cannot be steered into a 6-label SR-TE policy. >> >> a) As defined in RFC8491, the BMI-MSD is 6 for this headend. Do we have = a >> standardized way to signal the transport label depth in mode 2? >> Maybe in a different MSD type? >> b) Since plain IPv4 and VPN routes can be steered into the same SR-TE >> policy, do we have a standardized headend behavior in this situation? >> (Should I open a new thread to discuss this? It seems not quite >> MSD-relative.) >> >> Thanks.. >> Nat >> >>> >>> On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 7:19 AM Jeff Tantsura >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Gyan, >>>> >>>> MSD is only relevant for a device that either imposes the label stack >>>> (head-end) or manipulates it (BSID anchor). There are some other const= rains >>>> when it comes to entropy labels and ERLD, please read the respective d= rafts. >>>> In general, SID stack would grow when TE is in use (any time you need >>>> to use additional SID to deviate from SPT), another case is when addit= ional >>>> SID=E2=80=99s are used for services on the nodes, other than the tail-= end. >>>> That=E2=80=99s why we've designed MSD to be very flexible to accommoda= te all >>>> the different use cases, it is upto computational logic to decide how = to >>>> deal with different constrains (MSD types) >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Jeff >>>> >>>> P.S. you might want to see the NANOG MSD presentation I did some time >>>> ago. >>>> >>>> https://pc.nanog.org/static/published/meetings/NANOG71/1424/20171004_T= antsura_The_Critical_Role_v1.pdf >>>> On Dec 14, 2019, 11:59 PM -0800, Gyan Mishra , >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Jeff >>>> >>>> With SR-MPLS with SR-TR let=E2=80=99s say if you use cSPF snd don=E2= =80=99t have an ERO >>>> strict explicit path defined or is a loose path, then the for the cSPF >>>> would the transport labels be 1. For loose would also be 1 also. If = the >>>> path were explicit defined to egress PE and was 7 hops from ingress to >>>> egress then transport would be 6. And if L3 vpn service sid was signa= led >>>> that would be 1 vpn label. >>>> >>>> Let me know if I have that right. >>>> >>>> In Nats scenario for IPv6 he has 3 vpnv6 labels. >>>> >>>> Why is that? >>>> >>>> With both SR-MPLS and SRv6 the L3 vpn AFI/SAFI MBGP services overlay >>>> single label sits on top off SR as if does today with MPLS so why 3 vp= n >>>> labels. >>>> >>>> So with this draft with BGP-LS and BMI-MSD you can flood into the IGP >>>> the SID depth so all the nodes along the SR-TE path don=E2=80=99t go o= ver the >>>> maximum which would result in an error. >>>> >>>> If you set your MTU high enough in the core like 9216, does that >>>> overcome the SID depth issues with SR-TE? >>>> >>>> Warm regards, >>>> >>>> Gyan >>>> >>>> On Sat, Dec 14, 2019 at 2:43 AM Nat Kao wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi, Jeff. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks for the BMI-MSD reference. If I understand correctly: >>>>> >>>>> BMI-MSD =3D Transport Label Depth + Service Label Depth >>>>> Only former can be utilized by SR-TE policies. >>>>> >>>>> Currently do we have any method to determine the composition of BMI? >>>>> We need to know the transport label depth when doing service route >>>>> per-destination steering. >>>>> >>>>> This problem arises when trying to steer a plain IPv4 route and a VPN >>>>> service route into the same SR-TE policy that exceeds the transport l= abel >>>>> depth of the service route. I'm trying to figure out the standard beh= avior >>>>> in this case since the headend we use currently produces some interes= ting >>>>> results. >>>>> >>>>> Regards, >>>>> Nat. >>>>> >>>>> On Sat, Dec 14, 2019 at 2:42 AM Jeff Tantsura >>>> > wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi Nat, >>>>>> >>>>>> Please read https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8491#section-5 >>>>>> Currently defined MSD types are: >>>>>> 1: BMI >>>>>> 2: ERLD >>>>>> >>>>>> Specifically to BMI: >>>>>> Base MPLS Imposition MSD (BMI-MSD) signals the total number of MPLS = labels >>>>>> that can be imposed, including all service/transport/special labels. >>>>>> The answer to your question is 6 >>>>>> >>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>> Jeff >>>>>> On Dec 13, 2019, 3:42 AM -0800, Nat Kao , >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Hello, SPRING WG. >>>>>> >>>>>> How do we deal with an SR-TE policy headend with different MSDs for >>>>>> different types of traffic? >>>>>> For example, a headend H can impose: >>>>>> 6 transport labels for plain IPv4 packets; >>>>>> 5 transport labels + 1 IPv6 ExpNull label for plain IPv6 packets; >>>>>> 3 transport labels + 3 VPN labels for VPN packets. >>>>>> >>>>>> a) For a plain IPv4 route R4 and a VPN route Rv both steered into th= e >>>>>> SR-TE policy P1 with SID list , what will H perf= orm in >>>>>> this situation? >>>>>> b) What is the MSD of H? 6, 5 or 3? >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> Nat. >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> spring mailing list >>>>>> spring@ietf.org >>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> spring mailing list >>>>> spring@ietf.org >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring >>>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> Gyan S. Mishra >>>> >>>> IT Network Engineering & Technology >>>> >>>> Verizon Communications Inc. (VZ) >>>> >>>> 13101 Columbia Pike FDC1 3rd Floor >>>> >>>> Silver Spring, MD 20904 >>>> >>>> United States >>>> >>>> Phone: 301 502-1347 >>>> >>>> Email: gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com >>>> >>>> www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies-consultant >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >> spring mailing list >> spring@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring >> > --00000000000008cb7c0599e4df5b Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello, Robert.

Sur= ely the current BMI-MSD definition is sufficient for platforms without arti= ficial boundaries.
In this ideal case, maximum labels availab= le for SR-TE policy can be inferred from BMI-MSD and VPN routes.
<= div>
However we have 3 different artificial boundaries across 3 differen= t platforms now.
Hardcoding these boundaries might not scale = well. (Especially different OS versions may behave differently.)
<= div>A standard mechanism to discover this boundary would greatly help const= ructing SR-TE policy candidate paths.

Regards,
Nat.


On Tue, Dec 17, 2019= at 5:58 PM Robert Raszuk <robert@r= aszuk.net> wrote:
Hi Nat,

I am having a bit of= difficulty understanding reasoning and the way you are separating transpor= t from service labels.=C2=A0

The processing label = limit usually comes from data plane capabilities=C2=A0of the platform namel= y LFIB or hardware below.=C2=A0

Such layer is func= tion agnostic and it does not matter what role the label serves.=C2=A0

Label lookup results in pointer to a adj. rewrite on t= he outbound side. It really does not matter if the adjacent=C2=A0peer is yo= ur P router, segment endpoint=C2=A0or CE.=C2=A0

Of= course there are number of processing exceptions - for example concept of = aggregate VPN label, additional header modifications etc ...=C2=A0

Likely some platforms put such artificial=C2=A0boundary be= tween transport=C2=A0and service hence your request. But if so IMHO this is= more of an issue=C2=A0with specific platform or its marketing message then= IETF :).=C2=A0

Many thx,
R.







On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 6:06 AM Nat Kao <lekao@pyxisworks.org> wrote:
<= blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-l= eft:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
Hi, Jeff.

Consider a he= adend that can perform 1 of the following 2 modes(but not both):
1= ) Plain IPv4: 6 transport labels + 0 service label =3D> traffic can be s= teered into a 6-label SR-TE policy.
2) Any type of VPN: 3 transpor= t labels + 1~3 service labels =3D> traffic cannot be steered into a 6-la= bel SR-TE policy.

a) As defined in RFC8491, the BMI-MSD is 6 for this headend. Do we have a=20 standardized way to signal the transport label depth in mode 2?
=C2=A0=C2=A0 Maybe in a different MSD type?
b) Since plain IPv4 and VPN routes can be steered into the same SR-TE=20 policy, do we have a standardized headend behavior in this situation?
=C2=A0=C2=A0 (Should I open a new thread to discuss this? It seems not = quite MSD-relative.)

Thanks= ..
Nat=

On Tue, Dec 17, 2019= at 7:19 AM Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:
Gyan,

MSD is only relevant for a device that either imposes the= label stack (head-end) or manipulates it (BSID anchor). There are some oth= er constrains when it comes to entropy labels and ERLD, please read the res= pective drafts.
In general, SID stack would grow when TE is in use (any t= ime you need to use additional SID to deviate from SPT), another case is wh= en additional SID=E2=80=99s are used for services on the nodes, other than = the tail-end.
That=E2=80=99s why we've designed MSD to be very flex= ible to accommodate all the different use cases, it is upto computational l= ogic to decide how to deal with different constrains (MSD types)=C2=A0

Cheers,
Jeff

P.S. you might want to see the NANOG MSD presentation I d= id some time ago.
On Dec 14, 2019, 11:59 PM -0800, Gyan Mis= hra <hayabusa= gsm@gmail.com>, wrote:
Jeff

With SR-MPLS with SR-TR let=E2=80=99s say if you use cSPF= snd don=E2=80=99t have an ERO strict explicit path defined or is a loose p= ath, then the for the cSPF would the transport labels be 1.=C2=A0 For loose= would also be 1 also.=C2=A0 If the path were explicit defined to egress PE= and was 7 hops from ingress to egress then transport would be 6.=C2=A0 And= if L3 vpn service sid was signaled that would be 1 vpn label. =C2=A0

Let me know if I have that right. =C2=A0

In Nats scenario for IPv6 he has 3 vpnv6 labels. =C2=A0

Why is that? =C2=A0

With both SR-MPLS and SRv6 the L3 vpn AFI/SAFI MBGP servi= ces overlay single label sits on top off SR as if does today with MPLS so w= hy 3 vpn labels.

So with this draft with BGP-LS and BMI-MSD you can flood = into the IGP the SID depth so all the nodes along the SR-TE path don=E2=80= =99t go over the maximum which would result in an error.

If you set your MTU high enough in the core like 9216, do= es that overcome the SID depth issues with SR-TE?

Warm=C2=A0regards,

Gyan

On Sat, Dec 14, 2019 at 2:43 AM Nat K= ao <lekao@pyxi= sworks.org> wrote:
Hi, Jeff.

Thanks for the BMI-MSD reference. If I understand correctly:

BMI-MSD =3D Transport Label Depth + Service Label Depth
Only former can be utilized by SR-TE policies.

Currently do we have any method to determine the composition of BMI?
We need to know the transport label depth when doing service route per= -destination steering.

This problem arises when trying to steer a plain IPv4 route and a VPN = service route into the same SR-TE policy that exceeds the transport label d= epth of the service route. I'm trying to figure out the standard behavi= or in this case since the headend we use currently produces some interestin= g results.

Regards,
Nat.

On Sat, Dec 14, 2019 at 2:42 AM Jeff = Tantsura <= jefftant.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Nat,

Currently defined MSD types are:=C2=A0
1: BMI
2: ERLD

Specifically to BMI:
Base MPLS Imposition MSD (BMI-MSD) signals the total numb= er of MPLS=C2=A0labels that can be imposed, including all service/tra= nsport/special=C2=A0labels.
The answer to your question is 6

Cheers,
Jeff
On Dec 13, 2019, 3:42 AM -0800, Nat Kao &= lt;lekao@pyxiswor= ks.org>, wrote:
Hello, SPRING WG.

How do we deal with an SR-TE policy headend with different MSDs for differe= nt types of traffic?
For example, a headend H can impose:
6 transport labels for plain IPv4 packets;
5 transport labels + 1 IPv6 ExpNull label for plain IPv6 packets;
3 transport labels=C2=A0+ 3 VPN=C2=A0 labels for VPN packets.

a) For a plain IPv4 route R4 and a VPN route Rv both steered into the SR-TE= policy P1 with SID list <S1, S2, S3, S4, S5>, what will H perform in= this situation?
b) What is the MSD of H? 6, 5 or 3?

Thanks,
Nat.
_______________________________________________
spring mailing list
spring@ietf.org = https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
_______________________________________________
spring mailing list
spring@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
--

Gyan S. Mishra

IT Network Engineering & Technology=C2=A0

Verizon Communications=C2=A0Inc. (VZ)

13101 Columbia Pike FDC1 3rd Floor

Silver Spring, MD 20904

United StatesPhone:=C2=A0301 502-1347

Email:=C2=A0gyan.s.mis= hra@verizon.com

www.linkedin.com/i= n/networking-technologies-consultant


_______________________________________________
spring mailing list
spring@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
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Tue, 17 Dec 2019 12:21:24 +0000 From: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" To: Nat Kao , Robert Raszuk CC: SPRING WG Thread-Topic: [spring] Different MSDs for different traffic types on the same headend. 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From: Ron Bonica To: "Voyer, Daniel" , "Xiejingrong (Jingrong)" , "spring@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [spring] Is srv6 PSP a good idea Thread-Index: AQHVsgKjYcjkTdPeG0y33ySTkvbV/ae+baGw Content-Class: Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2019 14:53:21 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: msip_labels: MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_Enabled=True; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_SiteId=bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_Owner=rbonica@juniper.net; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_SetDate=2019-12-17T14:53:19.1917368Z; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_Name=Juniper Business Use Only; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_Application=Microsoft Azure Information Protection; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_ActionId=02ec020c-456f-4296-80a0-09f26617fa11; 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SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8DGwMpE08H14 for ; Tue, 17 Dec 2019 15:08:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-io1-xd2d.google.com (mail-io1-xd2d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d2d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 013531200B1 for ; Tue, 17 Dec 2019 15:08:13 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-io1-xd2d.google.com with SMTP id i11so9856504ioi.12 for ; Tue, 17 Dec 2019 15:08:12 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=DVikEBvgxPLwUTtwX0ziWiu6PxhUAIaQII58Uq6iHrk=; 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APjAAAVfWh6L2BHkwTU3itDRY6tWTI7PpS/DCFxdI2alVO/KchYo1C51 cImWFsQFPyxDBJJPEWUoOvg3TRlaFzrClOZ7KNk= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwgtQrWO3hY3Vt0yRcl/2N4xMQfP29fS7g5MqnRIJovU1gLxtCzDnnYLFYymIO9e3VyCiUn7gdN8e+fuCiVAC8= X-Received: by 2002:a6b:c9ca:: with SMTP id z193mr250524iof.276.1576624091979; Tue, 17 Dec 2019 15:08:11 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <5c2a4b36-0c59-709e-23eb-00f4aa1ce52f@joelhalpern.com> <9B89F4C2-5594-4D31-8893-21F3F4A0DF6C@cisco.com> <58ED78D3-9E0C-4556-8853-8754B361DF6D@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: From: Gyan Mishra Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2019 18:08:01 -0500 Message-ID: To: Ron Bonica Cc: "Joel M. Halpern" , "Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)" , "spring@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000f266700599ee660f" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Is srv6 PSP a good idea X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2019 23:08:16 -0000 --000000000000f266700599ee660f Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 10:05 AM Ron Bonica wrote: > Pablo, > > In your message below, are you arguing that it is easier for the > penultimate node to remove the SRH than it is for the ultimate node to > ignore it? I think that would be a stretch. > > > Ron > > > > Juniper Business Use Only > > -----Original Message----- > From: Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril) > Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2019 4:50 AM > To: Ron Bonica ; Joel M. Halpern ; > spring@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [spring] Is srv6 PSP a good idea > > Ron, > > What is the "price paid by the penultimate segment"? All the current > implementations do this at linerate with no performance degradation as I > have explained in my email before. > > There is substantial benefit. Four operators have deployed PSP, which > proves the benefit. > It enables new use-cases that have been provided by other members in the > list. [1], [2] and [5]. > From operational perspective it is not complex as explained in [3]. > Operators have expressed their value in [4] and [5]. > > [1].- > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/= wTLJQkzC6xwSNPbhB84VH0mLXx0__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!TzJ8_ZyDvWvLPNwsalQ6RiBzoLkP6Vj= 30eGaDVFEWdDq_IdPkWwaIL4IcdXeBzk_$ > [2].- > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/= V0ZpjVLSVZxHaBwecXFxqJjlg_c__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!TzJ8_ZyDvWvLPNwsalQ6RiBzoLkP6Vj= 30eGaDVFEWdDq_IdPkWwaIL4IcU9bihBc$ > [3].- > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/= ssobwemrPz0uEZjvRCZP1e4l_l0__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!TzJ8_ZyDvWvLPNwsalQ6RiBzoLkP6Vj= 30eGaDVFEWdDq_IdPkWwaIL4Icc_wo902$ > [4].- > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/= KXCBHT8Tpy17S5BsJXLBS35yZbk__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!TzJ8_ZyDvWvLPNwsalQ6RiBzoLkP6Vj= 30eGaDVFEWdDq_IdPkWwaIL4IcRXo_q-1$ > [5].- > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/= ErcErN39RIlzkL5SKNVAeEWpnAI__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!TzJ8_ZyDvWvLPNwsalQ6RiBzoLkP6Vj= 30eGaDVFEWdDq_IdPkWwaIL4IceGPpSab$ > > Cheers, > Pablo. > > =EF=BB=BF-----Original Message----- > From: Ron Bonica > Date: Thursday, 12 December 2019 at 21:50 > To: "Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)" , "Joel M. Halpern" = < > jmh@joelhalpern.com>, "spring@ietf.org" > Subject: RE: [spring] Is srv6 PSP a good idea > > Pablo, > > I am not convinced the benefit derived by the ultimate segment > justifies the price paid by the penultimate segment. Specifically, > > - the ultimate segment benefits because it doesn't have to skip over > the SRH with SL =3D=3D 0 > - in order for the ultimate segment to derive this benefit, the > penultimate segment needs to remove bytes from the middle of the packet a= nd > update two fields in the IPv6 header > > As Joel said, we typically don't add options (i.e., complexity) to a > specification unless there is substantial benefit. > > Ron > > > > > Juniper Business Use Only > > -----Original Message----- > From: spring On Behalf Of Pablo Camarillo > (pcamaril) > Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2019 3:12 PM > To: Joel M. Halpern ; spring@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [spring] Is srv6 PSP a good idea > > Joel, > > 1.- The use-case for PSP has already been provided at the mailer. > There are scenarios where it provides benefits to operators. > > 2.- The PSP behavior is optional. It is up to the operator in his > deployment to decide whether to enable it or not at one particular router= . > Similarly, a vendor may decide not to implement it. The PSP behavior > has been implemented by several vendors and deployed (see the srv6 > deployment draft). > > 3.- A network may have PSP enabled at some nodes and not at others. > Everything is still interoperable and works fine. > > 4.- PSP is not a complex operation in hardware (doable at linerate on > existing merchant silicon). > Example: It has been implemented and deployed on Broadcom J/J+. If I > recall correctly Broadcom Jericho+ started shipping in March 2016! PSP is > supported on this platform at linerate with no performance degradation > (neither PPPS nor BW). > Given that this is doable in a platform from more than 3 years ago, I > fail to see how you need "very special provision" to do this. > > Is it really something that horrible to provide freedom of choice to > the operators deploying? > > In summary, it can be implemented without any burden in hardware and > deployment experience prove this is beneficial to operators. > > Thanks, > Pablo. > > -----Original Message----- > From: spring on behalf of "Joel M. Halpern" > > Date: Wednesday, 11 December 2019 at 03:55 > To: "spring@ietf.org" > Subject: [spring] Is srv6 PSP a good idea > > For purposes of this thread, even if you think PSP violates RFC > 8200, > let us assume that it is legal. > > As I understand it, the PSP situation is: > o the packet arrives at the place (let's not argue about whether > SIDs > are locators) identified by the SID in the destination address > field > o that SID is the next to last SID in the SID list > o that sid is marked as / known to be PSP > o at the intended place in the processing pseudocode, the last > (first) > entry in the SRH is copied into the destination IPv6 address fiel= d > of > the packet > -> The SRH being used is then removed from the packet. > > In order to evaluate whether this is a good idea, we have to have > some > idea of the benefit. It may be that I am missing some of the > benefit, > and I would appreciate clarification. > As far as I can tell, the benefit of this removal is that in > exchange > for this node doing the work of removing the SRH, the final node > in the > SRH does not have to process the SRH at all, as it has been > removed. > > I have trouble seeing how that work tradeoff can be beneficial. > Removing bytes from the middle of a packet is a complex operation= . > Doing so in Silicon (we expect this to be done in the fast path o= f > significant forwarders as I understand it) requires very special > provision. Even in software, removing bytes from the middle of a > packet > requires somewhere between some and a lot of extra work. It is > distinctly NOT free. > > In contrast, we have assumed that the work of processing SRH > itself is > tractable, since otherwise all of SRv6 would be problematic. So > why is > this necessary. > > Yours, > Joel > > PS: Note that both the MPLS case and the encapsulation case are > very > different in that the material being removed is at the front of > the IP > packet. Pop or prepend are MUCH easier than middle-removal (or > middle-insertion). > [Gyan]. Good point Joel. So I think providing parity between SR-MPLS an= d SRv6 being two completely different specifications like apple versus orange. SR-MPLS reuses the MPLS ldp data plane so PHP and UHP is popping the traditional MPLS 4 byte shim. So with SR-MPLS since you are reusing the ldp data plane with new SRGB range 16000-23999 you are still doing label swapping and not label stacking. Only when doing SR-TE are you stacking the transport labels additional transport label per hop for the traceroute. My point is that SRV6 being a completely different animal from SR-MPLS we don=E2=80=99t have to and should not carry over feature parity for the sake= of doing so if it=E2=80=99s unnecessary. The main point here is PSP and USP a= re not popping a transport header or topmost label as with SR-MPLS. So with PSP and USP the pseudocode is identical and repetitive with SL=3D=3D0, pop SRH. >From an SRV6 technical standpoint at the egress P PSP node or egress PE USP node you would always only have a single SRH present The only process that adds the additional SRH is TI-LFA and I believe we decided that SRH would be part of a new 6in6 encapsulation done st the PLR node. If I am wrong, please correct me. The only other scenario which I believe was brought up is if the SRH was so large that it was fragmented and so have a fragmentation eh present as well and then in that case instead of popping both SRHs now present on the USP egress PE node which would be more processing you would pop the 1st EH on the PSP node and the last EH fragment on the USP egress PE node. I want to make sure I am not off on my thinking on USP and PSP as far as when each happens. So both USP and PSP are the 1st two SIDs in the list USP then PSP and the SL is processed in reverse order. So am I wrong in my thinking that in processing the SL as PSSI occurs at each hop along the source routed path that when SL=3D=3D0 you would process the 2nd to last special PSP SID and that would be the 2nd to last node in the SRv6 domain which would in fact be the Penultimate hop node and you pop the SRH. Then when SL=3D=3D0 you you process the last special USP SID and that would be t= he last node in the SRv6 domain which would be in fact the Ultimate hop PE node and then you would pop the final SRH of present. > > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring_= _;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!Uvd5DRUIJlsmob5a7r4JRgMMbZcE60JOPIW3K2MubKpIuKXA1r78vsFpWAH= a8hW2$ > > > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring_= _;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!Uvd5DRUIJlsmob5a7r4JRgMMbZcE60JOPIW3K2MubKpIuKXA1r78vsFpWAH= a8hW2$ > > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > --=20 Gyan S. Mishra IT Network Engineering & Technology Verizon Communications Inc. (VZ) 13101 Columbia Pike FDC1 3rd Floor Silver Spring, MD 20904 United States Phone: 301 502-1347 Email: gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies-consultant --000000000000f266700599ee660f Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 10:05 AM Ron Bonica <rbonica=3D<= a href=3D"mailto:40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org">40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org= > wrote:
Pablo,

In your message below, are you arguing that it is easier for the penultimat= e node to remove the SRH than it is for the ultimate node to ignore it? I t= hink that would be a stretch.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Ron



Juniper Business Use Only

-----Original Message-----
From: Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril) <pcamaril@cisco.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2019 4:50 AM
To: Ron Bonica <rbonica@juniper.net>; Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com>; spring@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [spring] Is srv6 PSP a good idea

Ron,

What is the "price paid by the penultimate segment"? All the curr= ent implementations do this at linerate with no performance degradation as = I have explained in my email before.

There is substantial benefit. Four operators have deployed PSP, which prove= s the benefit.
It enables new use-cases that have been provided by other members in the li= st. [1], [2] and [5].
>From operational perspective it is not complex as explained in [3].
Operators have expressed their value in [4] and [5].

[1].- https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/= msg/spring/wTLJQkzC6xwSNPbhB84VH0mLXx0__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!TzJ8_ZyDvWvLPNwsalQ6= RiBzoLkP6Vj30eGaDVFEWdDq_IdPkWwaIL4IcdXeBzk_$
[2].- https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/= msg/spring/V0ZpjVLSVZxHaBwecXFxqJjlg_c__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!TzJ8_ZyDvWvLPNwsalQ6= RiBzoLkP6Vj30eGaDVFEWdDq_IdPkWwaIL4IcU9bihBc$
[3].- https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/= msg/spring/ssobwemrPz0uEZjvRCZP1e4l_l0__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!TzJ8_ZyDvWvLPNwsalQ6= RiBzoLkP6Vj30eGaDVFEWdDq_IdPkWwaIL4Icc_wo902$
[4].- https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/= msg/spring/KXCBHT8Tpy17S5BsJXLBS35yZbk__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!TzJ8_ZyDvWvLPNwsalQ6= RiBzoLkP6Vj30eGaDVFEWdDq_IdPkWwaIL4IcRXo_q-1$
[5].- https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/= msg/spring/ErcErN39RIlzkL5SKNVAeEWpnAI__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!TzJ8_ZyDvWvLPNwsalQ6= RiBzoLkP6Vj30eGaDVFEWdDq_IdPkWwaIL4IceGPpSab$

Cheers,
Pablo.

=EF=BB=BF-----Original Message-----
From: Ron Bonica <rbonica@juniper.net>
Date: Thursday, 12 December 2019 at 21:50
To: "Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)" <pcamaril@cisco.com>, "Joel M. Halpe= rn" <jmh@j= oelhalpern.com>, "spring@ietf.org" <spring@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [spring] Is srv6 PSP a good idea

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Pablo,

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 I am not convinced the benefit derived by the ultimate segmen= t justifies the price paid by the penultimate segment. Specifically,

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 - the ultimate segment benefits because it doesn't have t= o skip over the SRH with SL =3D=3D 0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 - in order for the ultimate segment to derive this benefit, t= he penultimate segment needs to remove bytes from the middle of the packet = and update two fields in the IPv6 header

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 As Joel said, we typically don't add options (i.e., compl= exity) to a specification unless there is substantial benefit.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Ron




=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Juniper Business Use Only

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 -----Original Message-----
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 From: spring <spring-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Pablo Camaril= lo (pcamaril)
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2019 3:12 PM
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 To: Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com>; spring@ietf.org
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Subject: Re: [spring] Is srv6 PSP a good idea

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Joel,

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 1.- The use-case for PSP has already been provided at the mai= ler. There are scenarios where it provides benefits to operators.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 2.- The PSP behavior is optional. It is up to the operator in= his deployment to decide whether to enable it or not at one particular rou= ter.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Similarly, a vendor may decide not to implement it. The PSP b= ehavior has been implemented by several vendors and deployed (see the srv6 = deployment draft).

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 3.- A network may have PSP enabled at some nodes and not at o= thers.=C2=A0 Everything is still interoperable and works fine.=C2=A0

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 4.- PSP is not a complex operation in hardware (doable at lin= erate on existing merchant silicon).
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Example: It has been implemented and deployed on Broadcom J/J= +. If I recall correctly Broadcom Jericho+ started shipping in March 2016! = PSP is supported on this platform at linerate with no performance degradati= on (neither PPPS nor BW).
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Given that this is doable in a platform from more than 3 year= s ago, I fail to see how you need "very special provision" to do = this.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Is it really something that horrible to provide freedom of ch= oice to the operators deploying?

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 In summary, it can be implemented without any burden in hardw= are and deployment experience prove this is beneficial to operators.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Thanks,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Pablo.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 -----Original Message-----
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 From: spring <spring-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of "Joel M.= Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Date: Wednesday, 11 December 2019 at 03:55
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 To: "spring@ietf.org" <spring@ietf.org>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Subject: [spring] Is srv6 PSP a good idea

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 For purposes of this thread, even if you think = PSP violates RFC 8200,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 let us assume that it is legal.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 As I understand it, the PSP situation is:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 o the packet arrives at the place (let's no= t argue about whether SIDs
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 are locators) identified by the SID in the dest= ination address field
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 o that SID is the next to last SID in the SID l= ist
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 o that sid is marked as / known to be PSP
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 o at the intended place in the processing pseud= ocode, the last (first)
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 entry in the SRH is copied into the destination= IPv6 address field of
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 the packet
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 -> The SRH being used is then removed from t= he packet.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 In order to evaluate whether this is a good ide= a, we have to have some
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 idea of the benefit.=C2=A0 It may be that I am = missing some of the benefit,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 and I would appreciate clarification.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 As far as I can tell, the benefit of this remov= al is that in exchange
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 for this node doing the work of removing the SR= H, the final node in the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 SRH does not have to process the SRH at all, as= it has been removed.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 I have trouble seeing how that work tradeoff ca= n be beneficial.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Removing bytes from the middle of a packet is a= complex operation.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Doing so in Silicon (we expect this to be done = in the fast path of
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 significant forwarders as I understand it) requ= ires very special
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 provision.=C2=A0 Even in software, removing byt= es from the middle of a packet
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 requires somewhere between some and a lot of ex= tra work.=C2=A0 It is
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 distinctly NOT free.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 In contrast, we have assumed that the work of p= rocessing SRH itself is
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 tractable, since otherwise all of SRv6 would be= problematic.=C2=A0 So why is
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 this necessary.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Yours,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Joel

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 PS: Note that both the MPLS case and the encaps= ulation case are very
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 different in that the material being removed is= at the front of the IP
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 packet.=C2=A0 Pop or prepend are MUCH easier th= an middle-removal (or
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 middle-insertion).


[Gyan].=C2=A0 Good point Joel.=C2=A0 So I th= ink providing parity between SR-MPLS and SRv6 being two completely differen= t specifications like apple versus orange.=C2=A0 SR-MPLS reuses the MPLS ld= p data plane so PHP and UHP is popping the traditional MPLS 4 byte shim.=C2= =A0 So with SR-MPLS since you are reusing the ldp data plane with new SRGB = range 16000-23999 you are still doing label swapping and not label stacking= . Only when doing SR-TE are you stacking the transport labels additional tr= ansport label per hop for the traceroute. =C2=A0
My point is that SRV6 being a completely different= animal from SR-MPLS we don=E2=80=99t have to and should not carry over fea= ture parity for the sake of doing so if it=E2=80=99s unnecessary.=C2=A0 The= main point here is PSP and USP are not popping a transport header or topmo= st label as with SR-MPLS.=C2=A0 So with PSP and USP the pseudocode is ident= ical and repetitive with SL=3D=3D0, pop SRH.=C2=A0 From an SRV6 technical s= tandpoint at the egress P PSP node or egress PE USP node you would always o= nly have a single SRH present

The only process that adds the additional SRH is TI-LFA and I believe= we decided that SRH would be part of a new 6in6 encapsulation done st the = PLR node.

If I am wrong,= please correct me.

The = only other scenario which I believe was brought up is if the SRH was so lar= ge that it was fragmented and so have a fragmentation eh present as well an= d then in that case instead of popping both SRHs now present on the USP egr= ess PE node which would be more processing you would pop the 1st EH on the = PSP node and the last EH fragment on the USP egress PE node.

I want to make sure I am not off on m= y thinking on USP and PSP as far as when each happens.=C2=A0 So both USP an= d =C2=A0 PSP are the 1st two SIDs in the list USP then PSP and the SL is pr= ocessed in reverse order.=C2=A0 So am I wrong in my thinking that in proces= sing the SL as PSSI occurs at each hop along the source routed path that wh= en SL=3D=3D0 you would process the 2nd to last special =C2=A0PSP SID and th= at would be the 2nd to last node in the SRv6 domain which would in fact be = the Penultimate hop node and you pop the SRH. Then when SL=3D=3D0 you you p= rocess the last special USP SID and that would be the last node in the SRv6= domain which would be in fact the Ultimate hop PE node and then you would = pop the final SRH of present.=C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 _______________________________________________=
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=C2=A0 =C2=A0 _______________________________________________
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 spring mailing list
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=C2=A0 =C2=A0 https:/= /urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring__;!!NEt6y= MaO-gk!Uvd5DRUIJlsmob5a7r4JRgMMbZcE60JOPIW3K2MubKpIuKXA1r78vsFpWAHa8hW2$

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--
<= div dir=3D"ltr">

Gyan S. Mishra

IT Networ= k Engineering & Technology=C2=A0=

Verizon Communications=C2=A0Inc. (VZ)=

13101 Columbia Pike FDC1 3rd Floor

=

Silver Spring, MD 20904

United States<= span style=3D"color:rgb(80,0,80);background-image:initial;background-positi= on:initial;background-repeat:initial">

Phone:=C2=A0301 502-1347

Email:=C2=A0gyan.s.mishra@verizon.= com

www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies-co= nsultant


--000000000000f266700599ee660f-- From nobody Tue Dec 17 15:45:28 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CBD512016E for ; Tue, 17 Dec 2019 15:45:24 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.997 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.997 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, FREEMAIL_REPLY=1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id M0aQOJWAs6-g for ; Tue, 17 Dec 2019 15:45:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-il1-x134.google.com (mail-il1-x134.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::134]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 82B10120026 for ; Tue, 17 Dec 2019 15:45:01 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-il1-x134.google.com with SMTP id v15so93066iln.0 for ; Tue, 17 Dec 2019 15:45:01 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=qyVDxvvrp3qA/fLKVnAvfAoFnHIOrOokhjv/aLw2PR8=; b=ejTFIjuHtM7dGLh1ktv0+rplFFIVCieasPID6gTcKq+46hieKLwxYCCV9x7Hibmx0A 038K0pUw0hYp12JpesT2x8msWLd16mA/5ZCuxwwswfwaIs36hdUShEEA/0DjZqCTnVPW YVF85/wL5desgbsqw26XE86QyDb0LylEap8m522LQCgPIDdv/kjSwtqkZSpbYqjQU9EY 4GwPJYNRYDSChGyhXut6QWWCslbLBfGPAxzlvSc2Mu/E3yaD2MdYzRXBvzoj4wnm6MyK usF4f1aOeHC99bOQd/Gads2Jwz4c0EumRKq/Xmw6VlEIP+LKY22v372g3BtHpfp5iOCe 3kRA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=qyVDxvvrp3qA/fLKVnAvfAoFnHIOrOokhjv/aLw2PR8=; b=j2V+pEejF4geu0q4KlixCgvpzcA827SeY1LJGmm1c/khoEItr/a1rfP3JXewEXPUG4 ZxVLrKxcDb6CCW3Mm36gf5b+C6j72Uiq8QSACFMiLI2wAtf4Dc6YejxMbwoQ8K8zLd99 BG0blsXfKc0MnXrwfYutzPyXO9syME2IeAmnKjWwTB3jlT/QQIWqW1sipSKQlWpjrgcT YsdQ0jop0rBmOyr/LeJzp0tsZOodzTBgJ57Mui/g+eaMoW7QeaFrV2CdeKvtLA1kUEzr D8U14LOgBJmoz6+LQdkdM2pjnqtRhqSq3dN6ZB6v7lWUY32exOwtg+6BriOzNAxxhfp8 3mbA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXeymuQRvgCf8QbpF6e26MkU6ZinCJ8AL0hoQkVM7F0sgcso/ST BZ4Ta6TSypt29l4nTzWY9SUD37oSt6rGhx3xQV8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzlW0hhOfKW1xKZYyRO0tBPn7QEIqm7Y+C03+eJZ2LhjhtVvUmQtvpkoEE0vK1N+jT6IvC1irXAIeHo5lqqEN8= X-Received: by 2002:a92:4e:: with SMTP id 75mr370489ila.276.1576626300527; Tue, 17 Dec 2019 15:45:00 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <38b14bf5-b6d9-4d46-ad1d-d26d3376df51@Spark> In-Reply-To: From: Gyan Mishra Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2019 18:44:34 -0500 Message-ID: To: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" Cc: Nat Kao , Robert Raszuk , SPRING WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000962a0d0599eeeabc" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Different MSDs for different traffic types on the same headend. X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2019 23:45:24 -0000 --000000000000962a0d0599eeeabc Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Ketan Is this the artificial boundary below for SR-TE from the document provided by Jeff. MSD supported by different HW/SW differs widely : =E2=80=93 Linux (kernel 4.10): 2 SID=E2=80=99s, some improvements recently = (as of 4.11) =E2=80=93 Low end off the shelf (merchant) silicon, e.g. BCM Trident2: 3-5 SID=E2=80= =99s =E2=80=93 High end off the shelf (merchant) silicon, e.g BCM Jericho1 : 4-7 SID=E2=80= =99s =E2=80=93 Vendor=E2=80=99 silicon, e.g. Juniper=E2=80=99 Trio, Nokia=E2=80=99 FP3: 4-= 10+ SID=E2=80=99s So if you are doing MPLS-TE w/o SR-TE policies reusing they MPLS data plane the label stack is identical to MPLS just with different label range for SRGB 16000-23999 for absolute or indexed label. Label stack for SR-MPLS is identical to MPLS with single topmost label for label switching through the core and bottom of stack services label for L3 vpn services. For clarity on nomenclature below please comment: Transport label - This is the SID label stack insertion at the ingress PE head end to the SR-MPLS domain performing SR-TE. Each hop along the way hop the top SID label is popped until SL=3D=3D0 at which time PHP default o= r UHP explicit null =E2=80=9Cpipe mode=E2=80=9D is performed. (Similar to top= most in MPLS label switch world but now its a stack of labels instead of a single label= ) Once you get past the transport label now you are on common ground with M-BGP overlay services Services label- L3 vpn service SID signaled. So with the service label that is signaled from ingress to egress PE for service. Is this a single label like traditional L3 vpn aggregate label or more then one or many labels. The services label my guess should be fixed and not have any vendor specific boundary constraints. Gyan On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 7:21 AM Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) wrote: > Hi Nat, > > > > The MSD framework enables us to define more/new MSD types. If there is a > real use-case and requirement (as you express) and the necessary MSD > type(s) can be formally defined then perhaps the WG can evaluate it. > > > > Thanks, > > Ketan > > > > *From:* spring *On Behalf Of *Nat Kao > *Sent:* 17 December 2019 17:16 > *To:* Robert Raszuk > *Cc:* SPRING WG ; Nat Kao > *Subject:* Re: [spring] Different MSDs for different traffic types on the > same headend. > > > > Hello, Robert. > > Surely the current BMI-MSD definition is sufficient for platforms without > artificial boundaries. > > In this ideal case, maximum labels available for SR-TE policy can be > inferred from BMI-MSD and VPN routes. > > > However we have 3 different artificial boundaries across 3 different > platforms now. > > Hardcoding these boundaries might not scale well. (Especially different O= S > versions may behave differently.) > > A standard mechanism to discover this boundary would greatly help > constructing SR-TE policy candidate paths. > > > > Regards, > > Nat. > > > > > > On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 5:58 PM Robert Raszuk wrote: > > Hi Nat, > > > > I am having a bit of difficulty understanding reasoning and the way you > are separating transport from service labels. > > > > The processing label limit usually comes from data plane capabilities of > the platform namely LFIB or hardware below. > > > > Such layer is function agnostic and it does not matter what role the labe= l > serves. > > > > Label lookup results in pointer to a adj. rewrite on the outbound side. I= t > really does not matter if the adjacent peer is your P router, segment > endpoint or CE. > > > > Of course there are number of processing exceptions - for example concept > of aggregate VPN label, additional header modifications etc ... > > > > Likely some platforms put such artificial boundary between transport and > service hence your request. But if so IMHO this is more of an issue with > specific platform or its marketing message then IETF :). > > > > Many thx, > R. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 6:06 AM Nat Kao wrote: > > Hi, Jeff. > > Consider a headend that can perform 1 of the following 2 modes(but not > both): > > 1) Plain IPv4: 6 transport labels + 0 service label =3D> traffic can be > steered into a 6-label SR-TE policy. > > 2) Any type of VPN: 3 transport labels + 1~3 service labels =3D> traffic > cannot be steered into a 6-label SR-TE policy. > > a) As defined in RFC8491, the BMI-MSD is 6 for this headend. Do we have a > standardized way to signal the transport label depth in mode 2? > > Maybe in a different MSD type? > > b) Since plain IPv4 and VPN routes can be steered into the same SR-TE > policy, do we have a standardized headend behavior in this situation? > > (Should I open a new thread to discuss this? It seems not quite > MSD-relative.) > > > > Thanks... > > Nat > > > > On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 7:19 AM Jeff Tantsura > wrote: > > Gyan, > > > > MSD is only relevant for a device that either imposes the label stack > (head-end) or manipulates it (BSID anchor). There are some other constrai= ns > when it comes to entropy labels and ERLD, please read the respective draf= ts. > > In general, SID stack would grow when TE is in use (any time you need to > use additional SID to deviate from SPT), another case is when additional > SID=E2=80=99s are used for services on the nodes, other than the tail-end= . > > That=E2=80=99s why we've designed MSD to be very flexible to accommodate = all the > different use cases, it is upto computational logic to decide how to deal > with different constrains (MSD types) > > > > Cheers, > > Jeff > > > > P.S. you might want to see the NANOG MSD presentation I did some time ago= . > > > https://pc.nanog.org/static/published/meetings/NANOG71/1424/20171004_Tant= sura_The_Critical_Role_v1.pdf > > On Dec 14, 2019, 11:59 PM -0800, Gyan Mishra , > wrote: > > Jeff > > > > With SR-MPLS with SR-TR let=E2=80=99s say if you use cSPF snd don=E2=80= =99t have an ERO > strict explicit path defined or is a loose path, then the for the cSPF > would the transport labels be 1. For loose would also be 1 also. If the > path were explicit defined to egress PE and was 7 hops from ingress to > egress then transport would be 6. And if L3 vpn service sid was signaled > that would be 1 vpn label. > > > > Let me know if I have that right. > > > > In Nats scenario for IPv6 he has 3 vpnv6 labels. > > > > Why is that? > > > > With both SR-MPLS and SRv6 the L3 vpn AFI/SAFI MBGP services overlay > single label sits on top off SR as if does today with MPLS so why 3 vpn > labels. > > > > So with this draft with BGP-LS and BMI-MSD you can flood into the IGP the > SID depth so all the nodes along the SR-TE path don=E2=80=99t go over the= maximum > which would result in an error. > > > > If you set your MTU high enough in the core like 9216, does that overcome > the SID depth issues with SR-TE? > > > > Warm regards, > > > > Gyan > > > > On Sat, Dec 14, 2019 at 2:43 AM Nat Kao wrote: > > Hi, Jeff. > > > > Thanks for the BMI-MSD reference. If I understand correctly: > > > > BMI-MSD =3D Transport Label Depth + Service Label Depth > > Only former can be utilized by SR-TE policies. > > > > Currently do we have any method to determine the composition of BMI? > > We need to know the transport label depth when doing service route > per-destination steering. > > > > This problem arises when trying to steer a plain IPv4 route and a VPN > service route into the same SR-TE policy that exceeds the transport label > depth of the service route. I'm trying to figure out the standard behavio= r > in this case since the headend we use currently produces some interesting > results. > > > > Regards, > > Nat. > > > > On Sat, Dec 14, 2019 at 2:42 AM Jeff Tantsura > wrote: > > Hi Nat, > > > > Please read https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8491#section-5 > > Currently defined MSD types are: > > 1: BMI > > 2: ERLD > > > > Specifically to BMI: > > Base MPLS Imposition MSD (BMI-MSD) signals the total number of MPLS label= s > that can be imposed, including all service/transport/special labels. > > The answer to your question is 6 > > > > Cheers, > > Jeff > > On Dec 13, 2019, 3:42 AM -0800, Nat Kao , wrote: > > Hello, SPRING WG. > > How do we deal with an SR-TE policy headend with different MSDs for > different types of traffic? > > For example, a headend H can impose: > 6 transport labels for plain IPv4 packets; > 5 transport labels + 1 IPv6 ExpNull label for plain IPv6 packets; > > 3 transport labels + 3 VPN labels for VPN packets. > > > > a) For a plain IPv4 route R4 and a VPN route Rv both steered into the > SR-TE policy P1 with SID list , what will H perform i= n > this situation? > b) What is the MSD of H? 6, 5 or 3? > > > > Thanks, > > Nat. > > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > > -- > > Gyan S. Mishra > > IT Network Engineering & Technology > > Verizon Communications Inc. (VZ) > > 13101 Columbia Pike > > FDC1 3rd Floor > > Silver Spring, MD 20904 > > United States > > Phone: 301 502-1347 > > Email: gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com > > www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies-consultant > > > > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > --=20 Gyan S. Mishra IT Network Engineering & Technology Verizon Communications Inc. (VZ) 13101 Columbia Pike FDC1 3rd Floor Silver Spring, MD 20904 United States Phone: 301 502-1347 Email: gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies-consultant --000000000000962a0d0599eeeabc Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Ketan=C2=A0

Is this the artificial boundary below for SR-T= E from the document provided by Jeff.

=C2=A0MSD supported by different HW/SW diff= ers widely :
=E2=80=93 Linux (kernel 4.10): 2 SID=E2= =80=99s, some improvements recently (as of 4.11) =E2=80=93 Low end off the = shelf (merchant) silicon, e.g. BCM Trident2: 3-5 SID=E2=80=99s =E2=80=93 Hi= gh end off the shelf (merchant) silicon, e.g BCM Jericho1 : 4-7 SID=E2=80= =99s =E2=80=93 Vendor=E2=80=99 silicon, e.g. Juniper=E2=80=99 Trio, Nokia= =E2=80=99 FP3: 4-10+ SID=E2=80=99s

So if you are doing MPLS-TE w/o SR-TE policies reusing they MPLS= data plane the label stack is identical to MPLS just with different label = range for SRGB 16000-23999 for absolute or indexed label.
Label stack for SR-MPLS is identical to MPLS with single topmost labe= l for label switching through the core and bottom of stack services label f= or L3 vpn services.

For = clarity on nomenclature below please comment:

Transport label - This is the SID label stack inserti= on at the ingress PE head end to the SR-MPLS domain performing SR-TE.=C2=A0= Each hop along the way hop the top SID label is popped until SL=3D=3D0 at = which time PHP default or UHP explicit null =E2=80=9Cpipe mode=E2=80=9D is = performed. (Similar to topmost in MPLS label switch world but now its a sta= ck of labels =C2=A0instead of a single label)

Once you get past the transport label now you are on = common ground with M-BGP overlay services

=
Services label- L3 vpn service SID signaled.
So with the service label that is signaled from ingress to egres= s PE for service.=C2=A0 Is this a single label like traditional L3 vpn aggr= egate label or more then one or many labels.

The services label my guess should be fixed and not ha= ve any vendor specific boundary constraints.

Gyan

On Tue, Dec 17, 2019= at 7:21 AM Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com> wrote:

Hi Nat,

=C2=A0

The MSD framework enables us to define more/ne= w MSD types. If there is a real use-case and requirement (as you express) a= nd the necessary MSD type(s) can be formally defined then perhaps the WG ca= n evaluate it.

=C2=A0

Thanks,

Ketan

=C2=A0

From: spring <spring-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Nat Kao
Sent: 17 December 2019 17:16
To: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Cc: SPRING WG <spring@ietf.org>; Nat Kao <lekao@pyxisworks.org>
Subject: Re: [spring] Different MSDs for different traffic types on = the same headend.

=C2=A0

Hello, Robert.=

Surely the current BMI-MSD definition is sufficient = for platforms without artificial boundaries.

In this ideal case, maximum labels available for SR-= TE policy can be inferred from BMI-MSD and VPN routes.


However we have 3 different artificial boundaries across 3 different platfo= rms now.

Hardcoding these boundaries might not scale well. (E= specially different OS versions may behave differently.)

A standard mechanism to discover this boundary would= greatly help constructing SR-TE policy candidate paths.

=C2=A0

Regards,

Nat.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 5:58 PM Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net&= gt; wrote:

Hi Nat,

=C2=A0

I am having a bit of difficulty understanding reason= ing and the way you are separating transport from service labels.=C2=A0<= /u>

=C2=A0

The processing label limit usually comes from data p= lane capabilities=C2=A0of the platform namely LFIB or hardware below.=C2=A0=

=C2=A0

Such layer is function agnostic and it does not matt= er what role the label serves.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Label lookup results in pointer to a adj. rewrite on= the outbound side. It really does not matter if the adjacent=C2=A0peer is = your P router, segment endpoint=C2=A0or CE.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Of course there are number of processing exceptions = - for example concept of aggregate VPN label, additional header modificatio= ns etc ...=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Likely some platforms put such artificial=C2=A0bound= ary between transport=C2=A0and service hence your request. But if so IMHO t= his is more of an issue=C2=A0with specific platform or its marketing messag= e then IETF :).=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Many thx,
R.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 6:06 AM Nat Kao <lekao@pyxisworks.org= > wrote:

Hi, Jeff.

Consider a headend that can perform 1 of the followi= ng 2 modes(but not both):

1) Plain IPv4: 6 transport labels + 0 service label = =3D> traffic can be steered into a 6-label SR-TE policy.

2) Any type of VPN: 3= transport labels + 1~3 service labels =3D> traffic cannot be steered in= to a 6-label SR-TE policy.

a) As defined in RFC8491, the BMI-MSD is 6 for this = headend. Do we have a standardized way to signal the transport label depth = in mode 2?

=C2=A0=C2=A0 Maybe in a different MSD type?

b) Since plain IPv4 and VPN routes can be steered in= to the same SR-TE policy, do we have a standardized headend behavior in thi= s situation?

=C2=A0=C2=A0 (Should I open a new thread to discuss = this? It seems not quite MSD-relative.)

=C2=A0

Thanks...

Nat

=C2=A0

On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 7:19 AM Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gm= ail.com> wrote:

=

Gyan,

=C2=A0

MSD is only relevant for a device that either impose= s the label stack (head-end) or manipulates it (BSID anchor). There are som= e other constrains when it comes to entropy labels and ERLD, please read th= e respective drafts.

In general, SID stack would grow when TE is in use (= any time you need to use additional SID to deviate from SPT), another case = is when additional SID=E2=80=99s are used for services on the nodes, other = than the tail-end.

That=E2=80=99s why we've designed MSD to be very= flexible to accommodate all the different use cases, it is upto computatio= nal logic to decide how to deal with different constrains (MSD types)=C2=A0=

=C2=A0

Cheers,

Jeff

=C2=A0

P.S. you might want to see the NANOG MSD presentatio= n I did some time ago.

On Dec 14, 2019, 11:59 PM -0800, Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.c= om>, wrote:

Jeff

=C2=A0

With SR-MPLS with SR-TR let=E2=80=99s say if you use= cSPF snd don=E2=80=99t have an ERO strict explicit path defined or is a lo= ose path, then the for the cSPF would the transport labels be 1.=C2=A0 For = loose would also be 1 also.=C2=A0 If the path were explicit defined to egress PE and was 7 hops from ingress to egress then transport = would be 6.=C2=A0 And if L3 vpn service sid was signaled that would be 1 vp= n label. =C2=A0

=C2=A0

Let me know if I have that right. =C2=A0

=C2=A0

In Nats scenario for IPv6 he has 3 vpnv6 labels. =C2= =A0

=C2=A0

Why is that? =C2=A0

=C2=A0

With both SR-MPLS and SRv6 the L3 vpn AFI/SAFI MBGP = services overlay single label sits on top off SR as if does today with MPLS= so why 3 vpn labels.

=C2=A0

So with this draft with BGP-LS and BMI-MSD you can f= lood into the IGP the SID depth so all the nodes along the SR-TE path don= =E2=80=99t go over the maximum which would result in an error.

=C2=A0

If you set your MTU high enough in the core like 921= 6, does that overcome the SID depth issues with SR-TE?

=C2=A0

Warm=C2=A0regards,

=C2=A0

Gyan

=C2=A0

On Sat, Dec 14, 2019 at 2:43 AM Nat Kao <lekao@pyxisworks.org= > wrote:

Hi, Jeff.

=C2=A0

Thanks for the BMI-MSD reference. If I understand co= rrectly:

=C2=A0

BMI-MSD =3D Transport Label Depth + Service Label De= pth

Only former can be utilized by SR-TE policies.

=C2=A0

Currently do we have any method to determine the com= position of BMI?

We need to know the transport label depth when doing= service route per-destination steering.

=C2=A0

This problem arises when trying to steer a plain IPv= 4 route and a VPN service route into the same SR-TE policy that exceeds the= transport label depth of the service route. I'm trying to figure out t= he standard behavior in this case since the headend we use currently produces some interesting results.<= /u>

=C2=A0

Regards,

Nat.

=C2=A0

On Sat, Dec 14, 2019 at 2:42 AM Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@g= mail.com> wrote:

Hi Nat,

=C2=A0

Currently defined MSD types are:=C2=A0=

1: BMI

2: ERLD

=C2=A0

Specifically to BMI:

Base MPLS Imposition MSD (BMI-MSD) signals the total= number of MPLS=C2=A0labels that can be imposed, including all service/tran= sport/special=C2=A0labels.

The answer to your question is 6

=C2=A0

Cheers,

Jeff

On Dec 13, 2019, 3:42 AM -0800, Nat Kao <lekao@pyxisworks.org= >, wrote:

Hello, SPRING WG.<= /u>

How do we deal with an SR-TE policy headend with dif= ferent MSDs for different types of traffic?

For example, a headend H can impose:
6 transport labels for plain IPv4 packets;
5 transport labels + 1 IPv6 ExpNull label for plain IPv6 packets;=

3 transport labels=C2=A0+ 3 VPN=C2=A0 labels for VPN= packets.

=C2=A0

a) For a plain IPv4 route R4 and a VPN route Rv both= steered into the SR-TE policy P1 with SID list <S1, S2, S3, S4, S5>,= what will H perform in this situation?
b) What is the MSD of H? 6, 5 or 3?

=C2=A0

Thanks,

Nat.

_______________________________________________
spring mailing list
spring@ietf.org = https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring

_______________________________________________
spring mailing list
spring@ietf.org = https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring

--

Gyan S. Mishra<= u>

IT Network Engineering= & Technology=C2=A0

Verizon Communications= =C2=A0Inc. (VZ)

1= 3101 Columbia Pike FDC1 3rd Floor

Silver Spring, MD 2090= 4

United States

Phone:=C2=A0301 502-1347=

Email:=C2=A0gyan.s.mishra@v= erizon.com

www.linkedin.com/in/= networking-technologies-consultant

=C2=A0

_______________________________________________
spring mailing list
spring@ietf.org = https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring

_______________________________________________
spring mailing list
spring@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
--
<= div dir=3D"ltr">

Gyan S. Mishra

IT Networ= k Engineering & Technology=C2=A0=

Verizon Communications=C2=A0Inc. (VZ)=

13101 Columbia Pike FDC1 3rd Floor

=

Silver Spring, MD 20904

United States<= span style=3D"color:rgb(80,0,80);background-image:initial;background-positi= on:initial;background-repeat:initial">

Phone:=C2=A0301 502-1347

Email:=C2=A0gyan.s.mishra@verizon.= com

www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies-co= nsultant


--000000000000962a0d0599eeeabc-- From nobody Tue Dec 17 16:42:50 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14A9112000F for ; Tue, 17 Dec 2019 16:42:46 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pYY-fKa1UeRN for ; Tue, 17 Dec 2019 16:42:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pl1-x635.google.com (mail-pl1-x635.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::635]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2EC44120033 for ; Tue, 17 Dec 2019 16:42:36 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pl1-x635.google.com with SMTP id p9so156210plk.9 for ; Tue, 17 Dec 2019 16:42:36 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=date:from:to:cc:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject :mime-version; bh=hVYt5tFOrNVzfaVGFCfGf9mYehJKAJ69tpDfEqn8aEQ=; b=bTsQ7qr1CTGs/EinzuZv4njOoHSBUJB/05KaRuxNHYCMaLqDRhD1xxQRICRRceX08q pQZIayc6ldAG7DNZNT7GTB2DximGhhJITHYTK4znXeJjPYNumsKzwcu/4Zd7s5w0ef5T GaDNu7rZ9Z3YVbvnvmIMzj7t1UcvzNP+JdkzHE2iy79GretdHuhyreZYfNz4YnlqJhWY SqHWoCW8nikhPpIzZaweBYwGNQlmexOfpFmJE9xbPZAy3gzH+EZcvUz8QIqFkXrkfGZ8 P7zhv86C6Bag5Xx51mMrDKBsKOQGoIZufvmgYG5Dsly1wTBgMLbAlmYChX6SE9bpyBn/ GROg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:cc:message-id:in-reply-to :references:subject:mime-version; bh=hVYt5tFOrNVzfaVGFCfGf9mYehJKAJ69tpDfEqn8aEQ=; b=m1FQUhwZ6ZCRu+1DbcTKvEA3DKRvINiDlkgXBuBMYN9TKLSlFgMt8xmAPga6zxIslq Bfkqcve/SpaRU6c4CIGHyiVWKf1XAbqsOI2NiPkN/DTy9nTuQ65VIdoNMDLxOL4wwYWM eyWBQI+7VIQZoC6kdgdHsGA41LF840A5g9UE912ftox93BgHhM5X2dknzUqS/9BATW1p 3p4cu2v2r57jsgi45LUnr1IZnDpMA5ovPJkLnpwN71qIvsLWMOe0JSVNg2vb8UoojG2u EH8jff5w9qFPh1aNxJcL2okYokHyAjWnUCdBUiFAdR7xqCacAkX5TAOOTI5btjxg/FdS wLWA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXqKyQklDyxZ8vtQX2x/ihW1M5ww3Arv143/x5EaAYMEUPdjWo3 zaDDhmvXOoYC8aaZLtKsm9ATOoDG X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyJNLNKR2q39fDxGKWwpPI10MUHkf8otU/zhlsmvWBkxsYRxLn3BeN7qz9lOyljBLesEYMgZw== X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:23ee:: with SMTP id g101mr226275pje.14.1576629755426; Tue, 17 Dec 2019 16:42:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.1.253.22] ([216.221.150.18]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id w5sm186616pgb.78.2019.12.17.16.42.34 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 17 Dec 2019 16:42:34 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2019 16:42:28 -0800 From: Jeff Tantsura To: Nat Kao , Robert Raszuk Cc: SPRING WG Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: <38b14bf5-b6d9-4d46-ad1d-d26d3376df51@Spark> X-Readdle-Message-ID: ff911cc4-d2af-49af-bf5c-e9cf651b05f3@Spark MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="5df975f9_5992a02e_872b" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Different MSDs for different traffic types on the same headend. X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2019 00:42:46 -0000 --5df975f9_5992a02e_872b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Robert, While you are correct wrt single ASIC platforms, on a line-card based pla= tforms (at least ones I=E2=80=99m familiar with and that includes merchan= t silicon) =C2=A0in some case service labels were imposed on egress LC wh= ile transport on ingress, in any case, they are imposed at different stag= es in the pipeline. When you program HW there are clear differences and t= rade-offs associated. On many NPU=E2=80=99s, there=E2=80=99s a way to recirculate packets insid= e ASIC/NPU to provide additional manipulations, usually comes with perfor= mance penalty, perfect use case for an additional MSD type (Cisco is doin= g exactly that on Jericho+ to increase MSD). In general - as long as a device can provide any additional information t= hat could be used by computation logic to compute the most optimized path= , it is a good thing. Cheers, Jeff On Dec 17, 2019, 1:59 AM -0800, Robert Raszuk , wrot= e: > Hi Nat, > > I am having a bit of difficulty understanding reasoning and the way you= are separating transport from service labels. > > The processing label limit usually comes from data plane capabilities=C2= =A0of the platform namely L=46IB or hardware below. > > Such layer is function agnostic and it does not matter what role the la= bel serves. > > Label lookup results in pointer to a adj. rewrite on the outbound side.= It really does not matter if the adjacent=C2=A0peer is your P router, se= gment endpoint=C2=A0or CE. > > Of course there are number of processing exceptions - for example conce= pt of aggregate VPN label, additional header modifications etc ... > > Likely some platforms put such artificial=C2=A0boundary between transpo= rt=C2=A0and service hence your request. But if so IMHO this is more of an= issue=C2=A0with specific platform or its marketing message then IET=46 := ). > > Many thx, > R. > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 6:06 AM Nat Kao wrot= e: > > > Hi, Jeff. > > > > > > Consider a headend that can perform 1 of the following 2 modes(but = not both): > > > 1) Plain IPv4: 6 transport labels + 0 service label =3D> traffic ca= n be steered into a 6-label SR-TE policy. > > > 2) Any type of VPN: 3 transport labels + 1=7E3 service labels =3D> = traffic cannot be steered into a 6-label SR-TE policy. > > > > > > a) As defined in R=46C8491, the BMI-MSD is 6 for this headend. Do w= e have a standardized way to signal the transport label depth in mode 2=3F= > > > =C2=A0=C2=A0 Maybe in a different MSD type=3F > > > b) Since plain IPv4 and VPN routes can be steered into the same SR-= TE policy, do we have a standardized headend behavior in this situation=3F= > > > =C2=A0=C2=A0 (Should I open a new thread to discuss this=3F It seem= s not quite MSD-relative.) > > > > > > Thanks... > > > Nat > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 11:14 AM Nat Kao = wrote: > > > > > Hi, Jeff. > > > > > > > > > > Consider a headend that can perform 1 of the following 2 modes(= but not both): > > > > > 1) Plain IPv4: 6 transport labels + 0 service label =3D> traffi= c can be steered into a 6-label SR-TE policy.. > > > > > 2) Any type of VPN: 3 transport labels + 1=7E3 service labels =3D= > traffic cannot be steered into a 6-label SR-TE policy. > > > > > > > > > > a) As defined in R=46C8491, the BMI-MSD is 6 for this headend. = Do we have a standardized way to signal the transport label depth in mode= 2=3F > > > > > =C2=A0=C2=A0 Maybe in a different MSD type=3F > > > > > b) Since plain IPv4 and VPN routes can be steered into the same= SR-TE policy, do we have a standardized headend behavior in this situati= on=3F > > > > > =C2=A0=C2=A0 (Should I open a new thread to discuss this=3F It = seems not quite MSD-relative.) > > > > > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > > Nat. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 7:19 AM Jeff Tantsura wrote: > > > > > > > Gyan, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > MSD is only relevant for a device that either imposes the l= abel stack (head-end) or manipulates it (BSID anchor). There are some oth= er constrains when it comes to entropy labels and ERLD, please read the r= espective drafts. > > > > > > > In general, SID stack would grow when TE is in use (any tim= e you need to use additional SID to deviate from SPT), another case is wh= en additional SID=E2=80=99s are used for services on the nodes, other tha= n the tail-end. > > > > > > > That=E2=80=99s why we've designed MSD to be very flexible t= o accommodate all the different use cases, it is upto computational logic= to decide how to deal with different constrains (MSD types) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > > Jeff > > > > > > > > > > > > > > P.S. you might want to see the NANOG MSD presentation I did= some time ago. > > > > > > > https://pc.nanog.org/static/published/meetings/NANOG71/1424= /20171004=5FTantsura=5FThe=5FCritical=5FRole=5Fv1.pdf > > > > > > > On Dec 14, 2019, 11:59 PM -0800, Gyan Mishra , wrote: > > > > > > > > Jeff > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With SR-MPLS with SR-TR let=E2=80=99s say if you use cSP=46= snd don=E2=80=99t have an ERO strict explicit path defined or is a loose= path, then the for the cSP=46 would the transport labels be 1.=C2=A0 =46= or loose would also be 1 also.=C2=A0 If the path were explicit defined to= egress PE and was 7 hops from ingress to egress then transport would be = 6.=C2=A0 And if L3 vpn service sid was signaled that would be 1 vpn label= . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let me know if I have that right. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In Nats scenario for IPv6 he has 3 vpnv6 labels. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why is that=3F > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With both SR-MPLS and SRv6 the L3 vpn A=46I/SA=46I MBGP s= ervices overlay single label sits on top off SR as if does today with MPL= S so why 3 vpn labels. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So with this draft with BGP-LS and BMI-MSD you can flood = into the IGP the SID depth so all the nodes along the SR-TE path don=E2=80= =99t go over the maximum which would result in an error. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you set your MTU high enough in the core like 9216, do= es that overcome the SID depth issues with SR-TE=3F > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Warm=C2=A0regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Gyan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Dec 14, 2019 at 2:43 AM Nat Kao wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi, Jeff. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for the BMI-MSD reference. If I understand cor= rectly: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > BMI-MSD =3D Transport Label Depth + Service Label Dep= th > > > > > > > > > > Only former can be utilized by SR-TE policies. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Currently do we have any method to determine the comp= osition of BMI=3F > > > > > > > > > > We need to know the transport label depth when doing = service route per-destination steering. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This problem arises when trying to steer a plain IPv4= route and a VPN service route into the same SR-TE policy that exceeds th= e transport label depth of the service route. I'm trying to figure out th= e standard behavior in this case since the headend we use currently produ= ces some interesting results. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > Nat. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Dec 14, 2019 at 2:42 AM Jeff Tantsura wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Nat, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please read=C2=A0https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8= 491=23section-5 > > > > > > > > > > > > Currently defined MSD types are: > > > > > > > > > > > > 1: BMI > > > > > > > > > > > > 2: ERLD > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Specifically to BMI: > > > > > > > > > > > > Base MPLS Imposition MSD (BMI-MSD) signals the to= tal number of MPLS=C2=A0labels that can be imposed, including all service= /transport/special=C2=A0labels. > > > > > > > > > > > > The answer to your question is 6 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > > > > > > > Jeff > > > > > > > > > > > > On Dec 13, 2019, 3:42 AM -0800, Nat Kao , wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello, SPRING WG. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How do we deal with an SR-TE policy headend wit= h different MSDs for different types of traffic=3F > > > > > > > > > > > > > =46or example, a headend H can impose: > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6 transport labels for plain IPv4 packets; > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5 transport labels + 1 IPv6 ExpNull label for p= lain IPv6 packets; > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3 transport labels=C2=A0+ 3 VPN=C2=A0 labels fo= r VPN packets. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > a) =46or a plain IPv4 route R4 and a VPN route = Rv both steered into the SR-TE policy P1 with SID list , what will H perform in this situation=3F > > > > > > > > > > > > > b) What is the MSD of H=3F 6, 5 or 3=3F > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nat. > > > > > > > > > > > > > =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F > > > > > > > > > > > > > spring mailing list > > > > > > > > > > > > > spring=40ietf.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > > > > > > > > > > =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F > > > > > > > > > > spring mailing list > > > > > > > > > > spring=40ietf.org > > > > > > > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > Gyan S. Mishra > > > > > > > > IT Network Engineering & Technology > > > > > > > > Verizon Communications=C2=A0Inc. (VZ) > > > > > > > > 13101 Columbia Pike =46DC1 3rd =46loor > > > > > > > > Silver Spring, MD 20904 > > > > > > > > United States > > > > > > > > Phone:=C2=A0301 502-1347 > > > > > > > > Email:=C2=A0gyan.s.mishra=40verizon.com > > > > > > > > www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies-consultant > > > > > > > > > > > =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F > > > spring mailing list > > > spring=40ietf.org > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F > spring mailing list > spring=40ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring --5df975f9_5992a02e_872b Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline
Robert,

While you are correct wrt single ASIC platforms, on= a line-card based platforms (at least ones I=E2=80=99m familiar with and= that includes merchant silicon) &=23160;in some case service labels were= imposed on egress LC while transport on ingress, in any case, they are i= mposed at different stages in the pipeline. When you program HW there are= clear differences and trade-offs associated.&=23160;
On many NPU=E2=80=99s, there=E2=80=99s a way to rec= irculate packets inside ASIC/NPU to provide additional manipulations, usu= ally comes with performance penalty, perfect use case for an additional M= SD type (Cisco is doing exactly that on Jericho+ to increase MSD).
In general - as long as a device can provide any ad= ditional information that could be used by computation logic to compute t= he most optimized path, it is a good thing.

Cheers,
Jeff
On Dec 17, 2019, 1:59 AM -0800, Rob= ert Raszuk <robert=40raszuk.net>, wrote:
Hi Nat,

I am having a bit of difficulty understanding reasoning and the way = you are separating transport from service labels.&=23160;

The processing label limit usually comes from data plane capabilitie= s&=23160;of the platform namely L=46IB or hardware below.&=23160;

Such layer is function agnostic and it does not matter what role the= label serves.&=23160;

Label lookup results in pointer to a adj. rewrite on the outbound si= de. It really does not matter if the adjacent&=23160;peer is your P route= r, segment endpoint&=23160;or CE.&=23160;

Of course there are number of processing exceptions - for example co= ncept of aggregate VPN label, additional header modifications etc ...&=23= 160;

Likely some platforms put such artificial&=23160;boundary between tr= ansport&=23160;and service hence your request. But if so IMHO this is mor= e of an issue&=23160;with specific platform or its marketing message then= IET=46 :).&=23160;

Many thx,
R.







On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 6= :06 AM Nat Kao <lekao=40= pyxisworks.org> wrote:
Hi, Jeff.

Consider a headend that can perform 1 of the following 2 modes(but not bo= th):
1) Plain IPv4: 6 transport labels + 0 service label =3D> traffic can b= e steered into a 6-label SR-TE policy.
2) Any type of VPN: 3 transport labels + 1=7E3 service labels =3D> tra= ffic cannot be steered into a 6-label SR-TE policy.

a) As defined in R=46C8491, the BMI-MSD is 6 for this headend. Do we have= a standardized way to signal the transport label depth in mode 2=3F
&=23160;&=23160; Maybe in a different MSD type=3F
b) Since plain IPv4 and VPN routes can be steered into the same SR-TE pol= icy, do we have a standardized headend behavior in this situation=3F
&=23160;&=23160; (Should I open a new thread to discuss this=3F It seems = not quite MSD-relative.)

Thanks...
Nat


On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 1= 1:14 AM Nat Kao <lekao=40pyxisworks.org> wrote:
Hi, Jeff.

Consider a headend that can perform 1 of the following 2 modes(but not bo= th):
1) Plain IPv4: 6 transport labels + 0 service label =3D> traffic can b= e steered into a 6-label SR-TE policy..
2) Any type of VPN: 3 transport labels + 1=7E3 service labels =3D> tra= ffic cannot be steered into a 6-label SR-TE policy.

a) As defined in R=46C8491, the BMI-MSD is 6 for this headend. Do we have= a standardized way to signal the transport label depth in mode 2=3F
&=23160;&=23160; Maybe in a different MSD type=3F
b) Since plain IPv4 and VPN routes can be steered into the same SR-TE pol= icy, do we have a standardized headend behavior in this situation=3F
&=23160;&=23160; (Should I open a new thread to discuss this=3F It seems = not quite MSD-relative.)

Thanks.
Nat.


On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 7= :19 AM Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf=40gmail.com> wrote:
Gyan,

MSD is only relevant for a device that either impos= es the label stack (head-end) or manipulates it (BSID anchor). There are = some other constrains when it comes to entropy labels and ERLD, please re= ad the respective drafts.
In general, SID stack would grow when TE is in use = (any time you need to use additional SID to deviate from SPT), another ca= se is when additional SID=E2=80=99s are used for services on the nodes, o= ther than the tail-end.
That=E2=80=99s why we've designed MSD to be very fl= exible to accommodate all the different use cases, it is upto computation= al logic to decide how to deal with different constrains (MSD types)&=231= 60;

Cheers,
Jeff

P.S. you might want to see the NANOG MSD presentati= on I did some time ago.
On Dec 14, 2019, 11:59 PM -0800, Gy= an Mishra <hayabusagsm=40gmail.com>, wrote:
Jeff

With SR-MPLS with SR-TR let=E2=80=99s say if you us= e cSP=46 snd don=E2=80=99t have an ERO strict explicit path defined or is= a loose path, then the for the cSP=46 would the transport labels be 1.&=23= 160; =46or loose would also be 1 also.&=23160; If the path were explicit = defined to egress PE and was 7 hops from ingress to egress then transport= would be 6.&=23160; And if L3 vpn service sid was signaled that would be= 1 vpn label. &=23160;

Let me know if I have that right. &=23160;

In Nats scenario for IPv6 he has 3 vpnv6 labels. &=23= 160;

Why is that=3F &=23160;

With both SR-MPLS and SRv6 the L3 vpn A=46I/SA=46I = MBGP services overlay single label sits on top off SR as if does today wi= th MPLS so why 3 vpn labels.

So with this draft with BGP-LS and BMI-MSD you can = flood into the IGP the SID depth so all the nodes along the SR-TE path do= n=E2=80=99t go over the maximum which would result in an error.

If you set your MTU high enough in the core like 92= 16, does that overcome the SID depth issues with SR-TE=3F

Warm&=23160;regards,

Gyan

On Sat, Dec 14, 2019 at 2= :43 AM Nat Kao <lekao=40pyxisworks.org> wrote:
Hi, Jeff.

Thanks for the BMI-MSD reference. If I understand correctly:

BMI-MSD =3D Transport Label Depth + Service Label Depth
Only former can be utilized by SR-TE policies.

Currently do we have any method to determine the composition of BMI=3F=
We need to know the transport label depth when doing service route p= er-destination steering.

This problem arises when trying to steer a plain IPv4 route and a VP= N service route into the same SR-TE policy that exceeds the transport lab= el depth of the service route. I'm trying to figure out the standard beha= vior in this case since the headend we use currently produces some intere= sting results.

Regards,
Nat.

On Sat, Dec 14, 2019 at 2= :42 AM Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf=40gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Nat,

Currently defined MSD types are:&=23160;
1: BMI
2: ERLD

Specifically to BMI:
Base MPLS Imposition MSD (BMI-MSD) signals the tota= l number of MPLS&=23160;labels that can be imposed, including all s= ervice/transport/special&=23160;labels.
The answer to your question is 6
=

Cheers,
Jeff
On Dec 13, 2019, 3:42 AM -0800, Nat= Kao <lekao=40pyxisworks.org>, wrote:
Hello, SPRING WG.

How do we deal with an SR-TE policy headend with different MSDs for diffe= rent types of traffic=3F
=46or example, a headend H can impose:
6 transport labels for plain IPv4 packets;
5 transport labels + 1 IPv6 ExpNull label for plain IPv6 packets;
3 transport labels&=23160;+ 3 VPN&=23160; labels for VPN packets.

a) =46or a plain IPv4 route R4 and a VPN route Rv both steered into the S= R-TE policy P1 with SID list <S1, S2, S3, S4, S5>, what will H perf= orm in this situation=3F
b) What is the MSD of H=3F 6, 5 or 3=3F

Thanks,
Nat.
=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F
spring mailing list
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spring mailing list
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--

Gyan S. Mishra

IT Network Engineering & Technology&=23= 160;

Verizon Communications&=23160;Inc. (VZ)

13101 Columbia Pike =46DC1 3rd =46loor

Silver Spring, MD 20904

United States

Phone:&=23160;301 502-1347

Email:&=23160;gyan.s.mishra=40verizon.com<= span>

www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies-consultant=


=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F
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--5df975f9_5992a02e_872b-- From nobody Tue Dec 17 16:45:11 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E34BB12000F for ; Tue, 17 Dec 2019 16:45:06 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.997 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.997 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_FONT_LOW_CONTRAST=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 31uc4wjFivSL for ; Tue, 17 Dec 2019 16:45:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pj1-x1030.google.com (mail-pj1-x1030.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::1030]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 540ED12002E for ; Tue, 17 Dec 2019 16:44:59 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pj1-x1030.google.com with SMTP id w23so43254pjd.2 for ; Tue, 17 Dec 2019 16:44:59 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=date:from:to:cc:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject :mime-version; bh=w+/hY6MVCYkCuh6PglA+yI9ob6hld1a2E7clWvCuKTU=; b=LpAAjBNNFfQcBfCu29W7lfCGowl4PXVbLn/Ka+QdZyLkrCJnNiXD+BnaAPPd8gOCwb jLJrocToS+H4Irpba3YO7KjNiKcS77x3hsKQgFbyVPletp1iu3JeKvcgc0FOW1Vgfk+0 tFZoBWeDWjQSNoM/mxSVHYKemij2ynizJV79/pz/zOUaRDy+v6CQlmPeJQ9mJw/Llba4 WTGcEgVUXAHJLHu3QxE8ppHP3hcJPYw6uPnHMZhfCfSGZvY2SbnaixyL0OY9j5O9v5GY QiEk1M3wic1D0GUs6aVszDJJcIdzvCJCu+dO5ozUfaMuPaAPhh5aw6KutCGzhJG7Hr7e MNMw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:cc:message-id:in-reply-to :references:subject:mime-version; bh=w+/hY6MVCYkCuh6PglA+yI9ob6hld1a2E7clWvCuKTU=; b=gRgedOQ/ryYw1RtCsX+Jr/QHXnBMsX9UWtICh07vVho6lljYIct4jv2bsL3W9tqbzm fECBznfvTxojsrwf2zZ7w9x9Bc78tqs3I8ZlikVrVeeqTG3H4E2ZjlhY1HtQOfvlRSAD 2tIUTod8pYhEGCT2SKHgNh5qQ/V9a4dONA4nS0fv8Z0ShBWt1/9U0ocpy5H4Zlnn1J7r wE3H01+MZymi81Uu8UO6BLkp8ZSV+r1RCCbbZ5E0nKma4E/x6E3/+vgw+wVwIgZmif4N XC5JNgAueKAS5C2ZuJJ5rJ6v8N/cEzQifLsW0R4Tea+SP/wVqn6JVDfX+yyGdF1EakVa pgSw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUVv+FMuIJuHIi4XyZ28WS2GLwY1hIWBCt/3PHvTLGda4vLwfjM ZvOZkj/6Hf/PcO4sRBPWPv4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqy3/4xFby7CtzsMt/frM2ohDbj2qUY9jXoEbBX9L04q8PET64278F/bxsv49atWAVpfj/pAIg== X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:b906:: with SMTP id bf6mr1097461plb.154.1576629898527; Tue, 17 Dec 2019 16:44:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.1.253.22] ([216.221.150.18]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id l127sm208545pgl.48.2019.12.17.16.44.57 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 17 Dec 2019 16:44:57 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2019 16:44:50 -0800 From: Jeff Tantsura To: Nat Kao , Robert Raszuk , "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" Cc: SPRING WG Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: <38b14bf5-b6d9-4d46-ad1d-d26d3376df51@Spark> X-Readdle-Message-ID: fa412e53-8f14-4dc8-bbaf-bd677ca04be3@Spark MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="5df97687_71d601af_872b" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Different MSDs for different traffic types on the same headend. X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2019 00:45:07 -0000 --5df97687_71d601af_872b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Hi Nat, Please bring your use case to the wg, MSD has specifically=C2=A0been=C2=A0= designed to address new types with a very little effort. Cheers, Jeff On Dec 17, 2019, 4:21 AM -0800, Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) , wrote: > Hi Nat, > > The MSD framework enables us to define more/new MSD types. If there is = a real use-case and requirement (as you express) and the necessary MSD ty= pe(s) can be formally defined then perhaps the WG can evaluate it. > > Thanks, > Ketan > > =46rom: spring On Behalf Of Nat Kao > Sent: 17 December 2019 17:16 > To: Robert Raszuk > Cc: SPRING WG ; Nat Kao > Subject: Re: =5Bspring=5D Different MSDs for different traffic types on= the same headend. > > Hello, Robert. > Surely the current BMI-MSD definition is sufficient for platforms witho= ut artificial boundaries. > In this ideal case, maximum labels available for SR-TE policy can be in= ferred from BMI-MSD and VPN routes. > > However we have 3 different artificial boundaries across 3 different pl= atforms now. > Hardcoding these boundaries might not scale well. (Especially different= OS versions may behave differently.) > A standard mechanism to discover this boundary would greatly help const= ructing SR-TE policy candidate paths. > > Regards, > Nat. > > > On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 5:58 PM Robert Raszuk wro= te: > > Hi Nat, > > > > I am having a bit of difficulty understanding reasoning and the way y= ou are separating transport from service labels. > > > > The processing label limit usually comes from data plane capabilities= =C2=A0of the platform namely L=46IB or hardware below. > > > > Such layer is function agnostic and it does not matter what role the = label serves. > > > > Label lookup results in pointer to a adj. rewrite on the outbound sid= e. It really does not matter if the adjacent=C2=A0peer is your P router, = segment endpoint=C2=A0or CE. > > > > Of course there are number of processing exceptions - for example con= cept of aggregate VPN label, additional header modifications etc ... > > > > Likely some platforms put such artificial=C2=A0boundary between trans= port=C2=A0and service hence your request. But if so IMHO this is more of = an issue=C2=A0with specific platform or its marketing message then IET=46= :). > > > > Many thx, > > R. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 6:06 AM Nat Kao wrot= e: > > > Hi, Jeff. > > > Consider a headend that can perform 1 of the following 2 modes(but = not both): > > > 1) Plain IPv4: 6 transport labels + 0 service label =3D> traffic ca= n be steered into a 6-label SR-TE policy. > > > 2) Any type of VPN: 3 transport labels + 1=7E3 service labels =3D> = traffic cannot be steered into a 6-label SR-TE policy. > > > a) As defined in R=46C8491, the BMI-MSD is 6 for this headend. Do w= e have a standardized way to signal the transport label depth in mode 2=3F= > > > =C2=A0=C2=A0 Maybe in a different MSD type=3F > > > b) Since plain IPv4 and VPN routes can be steered into the same SR-= TE policy, do we have a standardized headend behavior in this situation=3F= > > > =C2=A0=C2=A0 (Should I open a new thread to discuss this=3F It seem= s not quite MSD-relative.) > > > > > > Thanks... > > > Nat > > > > > > > > On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 7:19 AM Jeff Tantsura wrote: > > > > > Gyan, > > > > > > > > > > MSD is only relevant for a device that either imposes the label= stack (head-end) or manipulates it (BSID anchor). There are some other c= onstrains when it comes to entropy labels and ERLD, please read the respe= ctive drafts. > > > > > In general, SID stack would grow when TE is in use (any time yo= u need to use additional SID to deviate from SPT), another case is when a= dditional SID=E2=80=99s are used for services on the nodes, other than th= e tail-end. > > > > > That=E2=80=99s why we've designed MSD to be very flexible to ac= commodate all the different use cases, it is upto computational logic to = decide how to deal with different constrains (MSD types) > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > Jeff > > > > > > > > > > P.S. you might want to see the NANOG MSD presentation I did som= e time ago. > > > > > https://pc.nanog.org/static/published/meetings/NANOG71/1424/201= 71004=5FTantsura=5FThe=5FCritical=5FRole=5Fv1.pdf > > > > > On Dec 14, 2019, 11:59 PM -0800, Gyan Mishra , wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Jeff > > > > > > > > > > > > With SR-MPLS with SR-TR let=E2=80=99s say if you use cSP=46 s= nd don=E2=80=99t have an ERO strict explicit path defined or is a loose p= ath, then the for the cSP=46 would the transport labels be 1.=C2=A0 =46or= loose would also be 1 also.=C2=A0 If the path were explicit defined to e= gress PE and was 7 hops from ingress to egress then transport would be 6.= =C2=A0 And if L3 vpn service sid was signaled that would be 1 vpn label. > > > > > > > > > > > > Let me know if I have that right. > > > > > > > > > > > > In Nats scenario for IPv6 he has 3 vpnv6 labels. > > > > > > > > > > > > Why is that=3F > > > > > > > > > > > > With both SR-MPLS and SRv6 the L3 vpn A=46I/SA=46I MBGP servi= ces overlay single label sits on top off SR as if does today with MPLS so= why 3 vpn labels. > > > > > > > > > > > > So with this draft with BGP-LS and BMI-MSD you can flood into= the IGP the SID depth so all the nodes along the SR-TE path don=E2=80=99= t go over the maximum which would result in an error. > > > > > > > > > > > > If you set your MTU high enough in the core like 9216, does t= hat overcome the SID depth issues with SR-TE=3F > > > > > > > > > > > > Warm=C2=A0regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > Gyan > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Dec 14, 2019 at 2:43 AM Nat Kao wrote: > > > > > > > Hi, Jeff. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for the BMI-MSD reference. If I understand correctly= : > > > > > > > > > > > > > > BMI-MSD =3D Transport Label Depth + Service Label Depth > > > > > > > Only former can be utilized by SR-TE policies. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Currently do we have any method to determine the compositio= n of BMI=3F > > > > > > > We need to know the transport label depth when doing servic= e route per-destination steering. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This problem arises when trying to steer a plain IPv4 route= and a VPN service route into the same SR-TE policy that exceeds the tran= sport label depth of the service route. I'm trying to figure out the stan= dard behavior in this case since the headend we use currently produces so= me interesting results. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > Nat. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Dec 14, 2019 at 2:42 AM Jeff Tantsura wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Nat, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please read=C2=A0https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8491=23se= ction-5 > > > > > > > > Currently defined MSD types are: > > > > > > > > 1: BMI > > > > > > > > 2: ERLD > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Specifically to BMI: > > > > > > > > Base MPLS Imposition MSD (BMI-MSD) signals the total numb= er of MPLS=C2=A0labels that can be imposed, including all service/transpo= rt/special=C2=A0labels. > > > > > > > > The answer to your question is 6 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > > > Jeff > > > > > > > > On Dec 13, 2019, 3:42 AM -0800, Nat Kao , wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello, SPRING WG. > > > > > > > > > How do we deal with an SR-TE policy headend with differ= ent MSDs for different types of traffic=3F > > > > > > > > > =46or example, a headend H can impose: > > > > > > > > > 6 transport labels for plain IPv4 packets; > > > > > > > > > 5 transport labels + 1 IPv6 ExpNull label for plain IPv= 6 packets; > > > > > > > > > 3 transport labels=C2=A0+ 3 VPN=C2=A0 labels for VPN pa= ckets. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > a) =46or a plain IPv4 route R4 and a VPN route Rv both = steered into the SR-TE policy P1 with SID list , what= will H perform in this situation=3F > > > > > > > > > b) What is the MSD of H=3F 6, 5 or 3=3F > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > Nat. > > > > > > > > > =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F > > > > > > > > > spring mailing list > > > > > > > > > spring=40ietf.org > > > > > > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > > > > > > > =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F > > > > > > > spring mailing list > > > > > > > spring=40ietf.org > > > > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Gyan S. Mishra > > > > > > IT Network Engineering & Technology > > > > > > Verizon Communications=C2=A0Inc. (VZ) > > > > > > 13101 Columbia Pike =46DC1 3rd =46loor > > > > > > Silver Spring, MD 20904 > > > > > > United States > > > > > > Phone:=C2=A0301 502-1347 > > > > > > Email:=C2=A0gyan.s.mishra=40verizon.com > > > > > > www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies-consultant > > > > > > > > > =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F > > > spring mailing list > > > spring=40ietf.org > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F > spring mailing list > spring=40ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring --5df97687_71d601af_872b Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline
Hi Nat,

Please bring your use case to the wg, MSD has speci= fically&=23160;been&=23160;designed to address new types with a very little effor= t.

Cheers,
Jeff
On Dec 17, 2019, 4:21 AM -0800, Ket= an Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant=40cisco.com>, wrote:

Hi Nat,

&=23160;

The MSD framework enables us to define more/new MSD types. If there is a= real use-case and requirement (as you express) and the necessary MSD typ= e(s) can be formally defined then perhaps the WG can evaluate it.<= /p>

&=23160;

Thanks,

Ketan

&=23160;

=46rom: s= pring <spring-bounces=40ietf.org> On Behalf Of Nat Kao
= Sent: 17 December 2019 17:16
To: Robert Raszuk <robert=40raszuk.net>
Cc: SPRING WG <spring=40ietf.org>; Nat Kao <lekao=40pyxis= works.org>
Subject: Re: =5Bspring=5D Different MSDs for different traffic typ= es on the same headend.

&=23160;

Hello, Robe= rt.

Surely the current BMI-MSD definition is suffi= cient for platforms without artificial boundaries.

In this ideal case, maximum labels available f= or SR-TE policy can be inferred from BMI-MSD and VPN routes.


However we have 3 different artificial boundaries across 3 different plat= forms now.

Hardcoding these boundaries might not scale we= ll. (Especially different OS versions may behave differently.)

A standard mechanism to discover this boundary= would greatly help constructing SR-TE policy candidate paths.

&=23160;

Regards,

Nat.

&=23160;

&=23160;

On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 5:58 PM Robert Raszuk = <robert=40raszuk.net>= ; wrote:

Hi Nat,

&=23160;

I am having a bit of difficulty understanding = reasoning and the way you are separating transport from service labels.&=23= 160;

&=23160;

The processing label limit usually comes from = data plane capabilities&=23160;of the platform namely L=46IB or hardware = below.&=23160;

&=23160;

Such layer is function agnostic and it does no= t matter what role the label serves.&=23160;

&=23160;

Label lookup results in pointer to a adj. rewr= ite on the outbound side. It really does not matter if the adjacent&=2316= 0;peer is your P router, segment endpoint&=23160;or CE.&=23160;

&=23160;

Of course there are number of processing excep= tions - for example concept of aggregate VPN label, additional header mod= ifications etc ...&=23160;

&=23160;

Likely some platforms put such artificial&=231= 60;boundary between transport&=23160;and service hence your request. But = if so IMHO this is more of an issue&=23160;with specific platform or its = marketing message then IET=46 :).&=23160;

&=23160;

Many thx,
R.

&=23160;

&=23160;

&=23160;

&=23160;

&=23160;

&=23160;

&=23160;

On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 6:06 AM Nat Kao <lekao= =40pyxisworks.org> wrote:

Hi, Jeff.

Consider a headend that can perform 1 of the f= ollowing 2 modes(but not both):

1) Plain IPv4: 6 transport labels + 0 service = label =3D> traffic can be steered into a 6-label SR-TE policy.

2) Any type= of VPN: 3 transport labels + 1=7E3 service labels =3D> traffic cannot= be steered into a 6-label SR-TE policy.

a) As defined in R=46C8491, the BMI-MSD is 6 f= or this headend. Do we have a standardized way to signal the transport la= bel depth in mode 2=3F

&=23160;&=23160; Maybe in a different MSD type= =3F

b) Since plain IPv4 and VPN routes can be stee= red into the same SR-TE policy, do we have a standardized headend behavio= r in this situation=3F

&=23160;&=23160; (Should I open a new thread t= o discuss this=3F It seems not quite MSD-relative.)

&=23160;

Thanks...

Nat=

&=23160;

On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 7:19 AM Jeff Tantsura = <jefftant.ietf=40gmail.com> wrote:

Gyan,

&=23160;

MSD is only relevant for a device that either = imposes the label stack (head-end) or manipulates it (BSID anchor). There= are some other constrains when it comes to entropy labels and ERLD, plea= se read the respective drafts.

In general, SID stack would grow when TE is in= use (any time you need to use additional SID to deviate from SPT), anoth= er case is when additional SID=E2=80=99s are used for services on the nod= es, other than the tail-end.

That=E2=80=99s why we've designed MSD to be ve= ry flexible to accommodate all the different use cases, it is upto comput= ational logic to decide how to deal with different constrains (MSD types)= &=23160;

&=23160;

Cheers,

Jeff

&=23160;

P.S. you might want to see the NANOG MSD prese= ntation I did some time ago.

On Dec 14, 2019, 11:59 PM -0800, Gyan Mishra &= lt;hayabusagsm=40gmail.com>, wrote:

Jeff

&=23160;

With SR-MPLS with SR-TR let=E2=80=99s say if y= ou use cSP=46 snd don=E2=80=99t have an ERO strict explicit path defined = or is a loose path, then the for the cSP=46 would the transport labels be= 1.&=23160; =46or loose would also be 1 also.&=23160; If the path were ex= plicit defined to egress PE and was 7 hops from ingress to egress then tr= ansport would be 6.&=23160; And if L3 vpn service sid was signaled that w= ould be 1 vpn label. &=23160;

&=23160;

Let me know if I have that right. &=23160;

=

&=23160;

In Nats scenario for IPv6 he has 3 vpnv6 label= s. &=23160;

&=23160;

Why is that=3F &=23160;

&=23160;

With both SR-MPLS and SRv6 the L3 vpn A=46I/SA= =46I MBGP services overlay single label sits on top off SR as if does tod= ay with MPLS so why 3 vpn labels.

&=23160;

So with this draft with BGP-LS and BMI-MSD you= can flood into the IGP the SID depth so all the nodes along the SR-TE pa= th don=E2=80=99t go over the maximum which would result in an error.

&=23160;

If you set your MTU high enough in the core li= ke 9216, does that overcome the SID depth issues with SR-TE=3F

&=23160;

Warm&=23160;regards,

&=23160;

Gyan

&=23160;

On Sat, Dec 14, 2019 at 2:43 AM Nat Kao <lekao= =40pyxisworks.org> wrote:

Hi, Jeff.

&=23160;

Thanks for the BMI-MSD reference. If I underst= and correctly:

&=23160;

BMI-MSD =3D Transport Label Depth + Service La= bel Depth

Only former can be utilized by SR-TE policies.=

&=23160;

Currently do we have any method to determine t= he composition of BMI=3F

We need to know the transport label depth when= doing service route per-destination steering.

&=23160;

This problem arises when trying to steer a pla= in IPv4 route and a VPN service route into the same SR-TE policy that exc= eeds the transport label depth of the service route. I'm trying to figure= out the standard behavior in this case since the headend we use currentl= y produces some interesting results.

&=23160;

Regards,

Nat.

&=23160;

On Sat, Dec 14, 2019 at 2:42 AM Jeff Tantsura = <jefftant.ietf=40gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Nat,

&=23160;

Currently defined MSD types are:&=23160;

1: BMI

2: ERLD

&=23160;

Specifically to BMI:

Base MPLS Imposition MSD (BMI-MSD) signals the= total number of MPLS&=23160;labels that can be imposed, including all se= rvice/transport/special&=23160;labels.

The answer to your question is 6

&=23160;

Cheers,

Jeff

On Dec 13, 2019, 3:42 AM -0800, Nat Kao <lekao= =40pyxisworks.org>, wrote:

Hello, SPRI= NG WG.

How do we deal with an SR-TE policy headend wi= th different MSDs for different types of traffic=3F

=46or example, a headend H can impose:
6 transport labels for plain IPv4 packets;
5 transport labels + 1 IPv6 ExpNull label for plain IPv6 packets;

3 transport labels&=23160;+ 3 VPN&=23160; labe= ls for VPN packets.

&=23160;

a) =46or a plain IPv4 route R4 and a VPN route= Rv both steered into the SR-TE policy P1 with SID list <S1, S2, S3, S= 4, S5>, what will H perform in this situation=3F
b) What is the MSD of H=3F 6, 5 or 3=3F

&=23160;

Thanks,

Nat.

=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F
spring mailing list
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=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F
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--

Gyan S. Mishra

IT Network Enginee= ring & Technology&=23160;

Verizon Communicat= ions&=23160;Inc. (VZ)

13101 Columbia Pik= e =46DC1 3rd =46loor

Silver Spring, MD = 20904

United States

Phone:&=2316= 0;301 502-1347

Email:&=2316= 0;gyan.s.mishra=40verizon.com

www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies-cons= ultant

&=23160;

=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F
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X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2019 01:41:33 -0000 --5df983c5_1f404301_872b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Gyan, I wrote this presentation =7E3 years ago, so the numbers are not necessar= ily current. Please see inline, hope this helps you to better understand the technolog= y behind the terminology. Let me know if anything is unclear. Cheers, Jeff On Dec 17, 2019, 3:45 PM -0800, Gyan Mishra , wr= ote: > > Hi Ketan > > Is this the artificial boundary below for SR-TE from the document provi= ded by Jeff. > > =C2=A0MSD supported by different HW/SW differs widely : > =E2=80=93 Linux (kernel 4.10): 2 SID=E2=80=99s, some improvements recen= tly (as of 4.11) =E2=80=93 Low end off the shelf (merchant) silicon, e.g.= BCM Trident2: 3-5 SID=E2=80=99s =E2=80=93 High end off the shelf (mercha= nt) silicon, e.g BCM Jericho1 : 4-7 SID=E2=80=99s =E2=80=93 Vendor=E2=80=99= silicon, e.g. Juniper=E2=80=99 Trio, Nokia=E2=80=99 =46P3: 4-10+ SID=E2=80= =99s > > So if you are doing MPLS-TE w/o SR-TE policies reusing they MPLS data p= lane the label stack is identical to MPLS just with different label range= for SRGB 16000-23999 for absolute or indexed label. =5Bjeff=5DSRGB is either configurable or a static label range, it doesn=E2= =80=99t have to be identical with SR domain, indexing provides the abstra= ction (and there=E2=80=99s life outside of Cisco ;-)) > Label stack for SR-MPLS is identical to MPLS with single topmost label = for label switching through the core and bottom of stack services label f= or L3 vpn services. =5Bjeff=5D NH in the VPN route is recursively resolved to a LSP (or polic= y in modern lingo) that could have 1 or more SID=E2=80=99s associated wit= h it (). In MPLS case, without TE, would be the label/N-SID of the egress= PE, the SID stack would grow any time you need to use Adj-SID=E2=80=99s = to deviate from SPT. Specifically to SR, egress PE can also associate a p= articular path (color) with the route and signal to the ingress PE what p= ath to take in order to reach it (NH). > > =46or clarity on nomenclature below please comment: > > Transport label - This is the SID label stack insertion at the ingress = PE head end to the SR-MPLS domain performing SR-TE.=C2=A0 Each hop along = the way hop the top SID label is popped until SL=3D=3D0 at which time PHP= default or UHP explicit null =E2=80=9Cpipe mode=E2=80=9D is performed. (= Similar to topmost in MPLS label switch world but now its a stack of labe= ls =C2=A0instead of a single label) =5Bjeff=5D There=E2=80=99s no SL field in MPLS header, there=E2=80=99s ho= wever BoS bit that should be set on the most bottom label (in this case -= VPN label), PHP is explicitly signaled by the egress PE (P/NP-flag in Pr= efix-SID) > > Once you get past the transport label now you are on common ground with= M-BGP overlay services > > Services label- L3 vpn service SID signaled. > So with the service label that is signaled from ingress to egress PE fo= r service.=C2=A0 Is this a single label like traditional L3 vpn aggregate= label or more then one or many labels. =5Bjeff=5D there=E2=80=99s no differences with any other VPNover=46oo, se= rvice labels are signaled in exactly same way independently of the transp= ort and are locally significant (that=E2=80=99s why LxVPN=E2=80=99s are s= uch a great technology) > > The services label my guess should be fixed and not have any vendor spe= cific boundary constraints. =5Bjeff=5D they are locally significant, in any implementation - label bl= ocks are associated with particular functions and programmed in HW, so th= e service label would come out of the service range, which is significant= to the device advertising it. In modern OS=E2=80=99s the ranges are configurable, in older ones, it is = static and there=E2=80=99s usually a header file that looks like: =23define MPLS=5FL3VPN=5FMIN=5FLABEL =C2=A00x40000 =23define MPLS=5FL3VPN=5FMAX=5FLABEL 0x85=46=46=46 > Gyan > > > On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 7:21 AM Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) wrote: > > > Hi Nat, > > > > > > The MSD framework enables us to define more/new MSD types. If there= is a real use-case and requirement (as you express) and the necessary MS= D type(s) can be formally defined then perhaps the WG can evaluate it. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Ketan > > > > > > =46rom: spring On Behalf Of Nat Kao > > > Sent: 17 December 2019 17:16 > > > To: Robert Raszuk > > > Cc: SPRING WG ; Nat Kao = > > > Subject: Re: =5Bspring=5D Different MSDs for different traffic type= s on the same headend. > > > > > > Hello, Robert. > > > Surely the current BMI-MSD definition is sufficient for platforms w= ithout artificial boundaries. > > > In this ideal case, maximum labels available for SR-TE policy can b= e inferred from BMI-MSD and VPN routes. > > > > > > However we have 3 different artificial boundaries across 3 differen= t platforms now. > > > Hardcoding these boundaries might not scale well. (Especially diffe= rent OS versions may behave differently.) > > > A standard mechanism to discover this boundary would greatly help c= onstructing SR-TE policy candidate paths. > > > > > > Regards, > > > Nat. > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 5:58 PM Robert Raszuk = wrote: > > > > Hi Nat, > > > > > > > > I am having a bit of difficulty understanding reasoning and the w= ay you are separating transport from service labels. > > > > > > > > The processing label limit usually comes from data plane capabili= ties=C2=A0of the platform namely L=46IB or hardware below. > > > > > > > > Such layer is function agnostic and it does not matter what role = the label serves. > > > > > > > > Label lookup results in pointer to a adj. rewrite on the outbound= side. It really does not matter if the adjacent=C2=A0peer is your P rout= er, segment endpoint=C2=A0or CE. > > > > > > > > Of course there are number of processing exceptions - for example= concept of aggregate VPN label, additional header modifications etc ... > > > > > > > > Likely some platforms put such artificial=C2=A0boundary between t= ransport=C2=A0and service hence your request. But if so IMHO this is more= of an issue=C2=A0with specific platform or its marketing message then IE= T=46 :). > > > > > > > > Many thx, > > > > R. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 6:06 AM Nat Kao = wrote: > > > > > Hi, Jeff. > > > > > Consider a headend that can perform 1 of the following 2 modes(= but not both): > > > > > 1) Plain IPv4: 6 transport labels + 0 service label =3D> traffi= c can be steered into a 6-label SR-TE policy. > > > > > 2) Any type of VPN: 3 transport labels + 1=7E3 service labels =3D= > traffic cannot be steered into a 6-label SR-TE policy. > > > > > a) As defined in R=46C8491, the BMI-MSD is 6 for this headend. = Do we have a standardized way to signal the transport label depth in mode= 2=3F > > > > > =C2=A0=C2=A0 Maybe in a different MSD type=3F > > > > > b) Since plain IPv4 and VPN routes can be steered into the same= SR-TE policy, do we have a standardized headend behavior in this situati= on=3F > > > > > =C2=A0=C2=A0 (Should I open a new thread to discuss this=3F It = seems not quite MSD-relative.) > > > > > > > > > > Thanks... > > > > > Nat > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 7:19 AM Jeff Tantsura wrote: > > > > > > > Gyan, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > MSD is only relevant for a device that either imposes the l= abel stack (head-end) or manipulates it (BSID anchor). There are some oth= er constrains when it comes to entropy labels and ERLD, please read the r= espective drafts. > > > > > > > In general, SID stack would grow when TE is in use (any tim= e you need to use additional SID to deviate from SPT), another case is wh= en additional SID=E2=80=99s are used for services on the nodes, other tha= n the tail-end. > > > > > > > That=E2=80=99s why we've designed MSD to be very flexible t= o accommodate all the different use cases, it is upto computational logic= to decide how to deal with different constrains (MSD types) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > > Jeff > > > > > > > > > > > > > > P.S. you might want to see the NANOG MSD presentation I did= some time ago. > > > > > > > https://pc.nanog.org/static/published/meetings/NANOG71/1424= /20171004=5FTantsura=5FThe=5FCritical=5FRole=5Fv1.pdf > > > > > > > On Dec 14, 2019, 11:59 PM -0800, Gyan Mishra , wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jeff > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With SR-MPLS with SR-TR let=E2=80=99s say if you use cSP=46= snd don=E2=80=99t have an ERO strict explicit path defined or is a loose= path, then the for the cSP=46 would the transport labels be 1.=C2=A0 =46= or loose would also be 1 also.=C2=A0 If the path were explicit defined to= egress PE and was 7 hops from ingress to egress then transport would be = 6.=C2=A0 And if L3 vpn service sid was signaled that would be 1 vpn label= . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let me know if I have that right. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In Nats scenario for IPv6 he has 3 vpnv6 labels. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why is that=3F > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With both SR-MPLS and SRv6 the L3 vpn A=46I/SA=46I MBGP s= ervices overlay single label sits on top off SR as if does today with MPL= S so why 3 vpn labels. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So with this draft with BGP-LS and BMI-MSD you can flood = into the IGP the SID depth so all the nodes along the SR-TE path don=E2=80= =99t go over the maximum which would result in an error. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you set your MTU high enough in the core like 9216, do= es that overcome the SID depth issues with SR-TE=3F > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Warm=C2=A0regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Gyan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Dec 14, 2019 at 2:43 AM Nat Kao wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hi, Jeff. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for the BMI-MSD reference. If I understand corre= ctly: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > BMI-MSD =3D Transport Label Depth + Service Label Depth= > > > > > > > > > Only former can be utilized by SR-TE policies. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Currently do we have any method to determine the compos= ition of BMI=3F > > > > > > > > > We need to know the transport label depth when doing se= rvice route per-destination steering. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This problem arises when trying to steer a plain IPv4 r= oute and a VPN service route into the same SR-TE policy that exceeds the = transport label depth of the service route. I'm trying to figure out the = standard behavior in this case since the headend we use currently produce= s some interesting results. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > Nat. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Dec 14, 2019 at 2:42 AM Jeff Tantsura wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi Nat, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please read=C2=A0https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8491=23= section-5 > > > > > > > > > > Currently defined MSD types are: > > > > > > > > > > 1: BMI > > > > > > > > > > 2: ERLD > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Specifically to BMI: > > > > > > > > > > Base MPLS Imposition MSD (BMI-MSD) signals the total = number of MPLS=C2=A0labels that can be imposed, including all service/tra= nsport/special=C2=A0labels. > > > > > > > > > > The answer to your question is 6 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > > > > > Jeff > > > > > > > > > > On Dec 13, 2019, 3:42 AM -0800, Nat Kao , wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello, SPRING WG. > > > > > > > > > > > How do we deal with an SR-TE policy headend with di= fferent MSDs for different types of traffic=3F > > > > > > > > > > > =46or example, a headend H can impose: > > > > > > > > > > > 6 transport labels for plain IPv4 packets; > > > > > > > > > > > 5 transport labels + 1 IPv6 ExpNull label for plain= IPv6 packets; > > > > > > > > > > > 3 transport labels=C2=A0+ 3 VPN=C2=A0 labels for VP= N packets. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > a) =46or a plain IPv4 route R4 and a VPN route Rv b= oth steered into the SR-TE policy P1 with SID list , = what will H perform in this situation=3F > > > > > > > > > > > b) What is the MSD of H=3F 6, 5 or 3=3F > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > > Nat. > > > > > > > > > > > =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F > > > > > > > > > > > spring mailing list > > > > > > > > > > > spring=40ietf.org > > > > > > > > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > > > > > > > > > =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F > > > > > > > > > spring mailing list > > > > > > > > > spring=40ietf.org > > > > > > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > Gyan S. Mishra > > > > > > > > IT Network Engineering & Technology > > > > > > > > Verizon Communications=C2=A0Inc. (VZ) > > > > > > > > 13101 Columbia Pike =46DC1 3rd =46loor > > > > > > > > Silver Spring, MD 20904 > > > > > > > > United States > > > > > > > > Phone:=C2=A0301 502-1347 > > > > > > > > Email:=C2=A0gyan.s.mishra=40verizon.com > > > > > > > > www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies-consultant > > > > > > > > > > > > > =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F > > > > > spring mailing list > > > > > spring=40ietf.org > > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > > > =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F > > > spring mailing list > > > spring=40ietf.org > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > -- > Gyan S. Mishra > IT Network Engineering & Technology > Verizon Communications=C2=A0Inc. (VZ) > 13101 Columbia Pike =46DC1 3rd =46loor > Silver Spring, MD 20904 > United States > Phone:=C2=A0301 502-1347 > Email:=C2=A0gyan.s.mishra=40verizon.com > www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies-consultant > > =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F > spring mailing list > spring=40ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring --5df983c5_1f404301_872b Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline
Gyan,

I wrote this presentation =7E3 years ago, so the nu= mbers are not necessarily current.

Please see inline, hope this helps you to better un= derstand the technology behind the terminology.
Let me know if anything is unclear.

Cheers,
Jeff
On Dec 17, 2019, 3:45 PM -0800, Gya= n Mishra <hayabusagsm=40gmail.com>, wrote:

Hi Ketan&=23160;

Is this the artificial boundary below for SR-TE fro= m the document provided by Jeff.

&=23160;MSD supported by different HW/SW differs wi= dely :
=E2=80=93 Linux (kernel 4.10): 2 SID=E2=80=99s, som= e improvements recently (as of 4.11) =E2=80=93 Low end off the shelf (mer= chant) silicon, e.g. BCM Trident2: 3-5 SID=E2=80=99s =E2=80=93 High end o= ff the shelf (merchant) silicon, e.g BCM Jericho1 : 4-7 SID=E2=80=99s =E2= =80=93 Vendor=E2=80=99 silicon, e.g. Juniper=E2=80=99 Trio, Nokia=E2=80=99= =46P3: 4-10+ SID=E2=80=99s

So if you are doing MPLS-TE w/o SR-TE policies reus= ing they MPLS data plane the label stack is identical to MPLS just with d= ifferent label range for SRGB 16000-23999 for absolute or indexed label.&= =23160;
=5Bjeff=5DSRGB is either configurable or a static label range, it do= esn=E2=80=99t have to be identical with SR domain, indexing provides the = abstraction (and there=E2=80=99s life outside of Cisco ;-))&=23160;
=
Label stack for SR-MPLS is identical to MPLS with s= ingle topmost label for label switching through the core and bottom of st= ack services label for L3 vpn services.&=23160;
=5Bjeff=5D NH in the VPN route is recursively resolved to a LSP (or = policy in modern lingo) that could have 1 or more SID=E2=80=99s associate= d with it (). In MPLS case, without TE, would be the label/N-SID of the e= gress PE, the SID stack would grow any time you need to use Adj-SID=E2=80= =99s to deviate from SPT. Specifically to SR, egress PE can also associat= e a particular path (color) with the route and signal to the ingress PE w= hat path to take in order to reach it (NH).

=46or clarity on nomenclature below please comment:=

Transport label - This is the SID label stack inser= tion at the ingress PE head end to the SR-MPLS domain performing SR-TE.&=23= 160; Each hop along the way hop the top SID label is popped until SL=3D=3D= 0 at which time PHP default or UHP explicit null =E2=80=9Cpipe mode=E2=80= =9D is performed. (Similar to topmost in MPLS label switch world but now = its a stack of labels &=23160;instead of a single label)&=23160;
=5Bjeff=5D There=E2=80=99s no SL field in MPLS header, there=E2=80=99= s however BoS bit that should be set on the most bottom label (in this ca= se - VPN label), PHP is explicitly signaled by the egress PE (P/NP-flag i= n Prefix-SID)

Once you get past the transport label now you are o= n common ground with M-BGP overlay services

Services label- L3 vpn service SID signaled.
So with the service label that is signaled from ing= ress to egress PE for service.&=23160; Is this a single label like tradit= ional L3 vpn aggregate label or more then one or many labels.&=23160;
=5Bjeff=5D there=E2=80=99s no differences with any other VPNover=46o= o, service labels are signaled in exactly same way independently of the t= ransport and are locally significant (that=E2=80=99s why LxVPN=E2=80=99s = are such a great technology) &=23160;

The services label my guess should be fixed and not= have any vendor specific boundary constraints.&=23160;
=5Bjeff=5D they are locally significant, in any implementation - lab= el blocks are associated with particular functions and programmed in HW, = so the service label would come out of the service range, which is signif= icant to the device advertising it.
In modern OS=E2=80=99s the ranges are configurable,= in older ones, it is static and there=E2=80=99s usually a header file th= at looks like:
=23define MPLS=5FL3VPN=5FMIN=5FLABEL &=23160;0x4000= 0
=23define MPLS=5FL3VPN=5FMAX=5FLABEL 0x85=46=46=46<= /div>


Gyan

On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 7= :21 AM Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant=40cisco.com> wrote:

Hi Nat,

&=23160;

The MSD framework enables us to define m= ore/new MSD types. If there is a real use-case and requirement (as you ex= press) and the necessary MSD type(s) can be formally defined then perhaps= the WG can evaluate it.

&=23160;

Thanks,

Ketan

&=23160;

=46rom: s= pring <spring-bounces=40ietf.org> On Behalf Of Nat Kao Sent: 17 December 2019 17:16
To: Robert Raszuk <robert=40raszuk.net>
Cc: SPRING WG <spring=40ietf.org>; Nat Kao <lekao=40pyxisworks.org= >
Subject: Re: =5Bspring=5D Different MSDs for different traffic typ= es on the same headend.

&=23160;

Hello, Robe= rt.

Surely the current BMI-MSD definition is suffi= cient for platforms without artificial boundaries.

In this ideal case, maximum labels available f= or SR-TE policy can be inferred from BMI-MSD and VPN routes.


However we have 3 different artificial boundaries across 3 different plat= forms now.

Hardcoding these boundaries might not scale we= ll. (Especially different OS versions may behave differently.)<= /u>

A standard mechanism to discover this boundary= would greatly help constructing SR-TE policy candidate paths.<= /u>

&=23160;

Regards,

Nat.

&=23160;

&=23160;

On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 5:58 PM Robert Raszuk = <ro= bert=40raszuk.net> wrote:

Hi Nat,

&=23160;

I am having a bit of difficulty understanding = reasoning and the way you are separating transport from service labels.&=23= 160;

&=23160;

The processing label limit usually comes from = data plane capabilities&=23160;of the platform namely L=46IB or hardware = below.&=23160;

&=23160;

Such layer is function agnostic and it does no= t matter what role the label serves.&=23160;

&=23160;

Label lookup results in pointer to a adj. rewr= ite on the outbound side. It really does not matter if the adjacent&=2316= 0;peer is your P router, segment endpoint&=23160;or CE.&=23160;=

&=23160;

Of course there are number of processing excep= tions - for example concept of aggregate VPN label, additional header mod= ifications etc ...&=23160;

&=23160;

Likely some platforms put such artificial&=231= 60;boundary between transport&=23160;and service hence your request. But = if so IMHO this is more of an issue&=23160;with specific platform or its = marketing message then IET=46 :).&=23160;

&=23160;

Many thx,
R.

&=23160;

&=23160;

&=23160;

&=23160;

&=23160;

&=23160;

&=23160;

On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 6:06 AM Nat Kao <lekao= =40pyxisworks.org> wrote:

Hi, Jeff.

Consider a headend that can perform 1 of the f= ollowing 2 modes(but not both):

1) Plain IPv4: 6 transport labels + 0 service = label =3D> traffic can be steered into a 6-label SR-TE policy.<= u>

2) Any type= of VPN: 3 transport labels + 1=7E3 service labels =3D> traffic cannot= be steered into a 6-label SR-TE policy.

a) As defined in R=46C8491, the BMI-MSD is 6 f= or this headend. Do we have a standardized way to signal the transport la= bel depth in mode 2=3F

&=23160;&=23160; Maybe in a different MSD type= =3F

b) Since plain IPv4 and VPN routes can be stee= red into the same SR-TE policy, do we have a standardized headend behavio= r in this situation=3F

&=23160;&=23160; (Should I open a new thread t= o discuss this=3F It seems not quite MSD-relative.)

&=23160;

Thanks...

Nat=

&=23160;

On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 7:19 AM Jeff Tantsura = <jefftant.ietf=40gmail.com> wrote:

Gyan,

&=23160;

MSD is only relevant for a device that either = imposes the label stack (head-end) or manipulates it (BSID anchor). There= are some other constrains when it comes to entropy labels and ERLD, plea= se read the respective drafts.

In general, SID stack would grow when TE is in= use (any time you need to use additional SID to deviate from SPT), anoth= er case is when additional SID=E2=80=99s are used for services on the nod= es, other than the tail-end.

That=E2=80=99s why we've designed MSD to be ve= ry flexible to accommodate all the different use cases, it is upto comput= ational logic to decide how to deal with different constrains (MSD types)= &=23160;

&=23160;

Cheers,

Jeff

&=23160;

P.S. you might want to see the NANOG MSD prese= ntation I did some time ago.

On Dec 14, 2019, 11:59 PM -0800, Gyan Mishra &= lt;hayabusagsm=40gmail.com>, wrote:

Jeff

&=23160;

With SR-MPLS with SR-TR let=E2=80=99s say if y= ou use cSP=46 snd don=E2=80=99t have an ERO strict explicit path defined = or is a loose path, then the for the cSP=46 would the transport labels be= 1.&=23160; =46or loose would also be 1 also.&=23160; If the path were ex= plicit defined to egress PE and was 7 hops from ingress to egress then tr= ansport would be 6.&=23160; And if L3 vpn service sid was signaled that w= ould be 1 vpn label. &=23160;

&=23160;

Let me know if I have that right. &=23160;<= /u>

&=23160;

In Nats scenario for IPv6 he has 3 vpnv6 label= s. &=23160;

&=23160;

Why is that=3F &=23160;

&=23160;

With both SR-MPLS and SRv6 the L3 vpn A=46I/SA= =46I MBGP services overlay single label sits on top off SR as if does tod= ay with MPLS so why 3 vpn labels.

&=23160;

So with this draft with BGP-LS and BMI-MSD you= can flood into the IGP the SID depth so all the nodes along the SR-TE pa= th don=E2=80=99t go over the maximum which would result in an error.

&=23160;

If you set your MTU high enough in the core li= ke 9216, does that overcome the SID depth issues with SR-TE=3F<= /u>

&=23160;

Warm&=23160;regards,

&=23160;

Gyan

&=23160;

On Sat, Dec 14, 2019 at 2:43 AM Nat Kao <lekao= =40pyxisworks.org> wrote:

Hi, Jeff.

&=23160;

Thanks for the BMI-MSD reference. If I underst= and correctly:

&=23160;

BMI-MSD =3D Transport Label Depth + Service La= bel Depth

Only former can be utilized by SR-TE policies.=

&=23160;

Currently do we have any method to determine t= he composition of BMI=3F

We need to know the transport label depth when= doing service route per-destination steering.

&=23160;

This problem arises when trying to steer a pla= in IPv4 route and a VPN service route into the same SR-TE policy that exc= eeds the transport label depth of the service route. I'm trying to figure= out the standard behavior in this case since the headend we use currentl= y produces some interesting results.

&=23160;

Regards,

Nat.

&=23160;

On Sat, Dec 14, 2019 at 2:42 AM Jeff Tantsura = <jefftant.ietf=40gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Nat,

&=23160;

Currently defined MSD types are:&=23160;

1: BMI

2: ERLD

&=23160;

Specifically to BMI:

Base MPLS Imposition MSD (BMI-MSD) signals the= total number of MPLS&=23160;labels that can be imposed, including all se= rvice/transport/special&=23160;labels.

The answer to your question is 6=

&=23160;

Cheers,

Jeff

On Dec 13, 2019, 3:42 AM -0800, Nat Kao <lekao= =40pyxisworks.org>, wrote:

Hello, SPRI= NG WG.

How do we deal with an SR-TE policy headend wi= th different MSDs for different types of traffic=3F

=46or example, a headend H can impose:
6 transport labels for plain IPv4 packets;
5 transport labels + 1 IPv6 ExpNull label for plain IPv6 packets;<= u>

3 transport labels&=23160;+ 3 VPN&=23160; labe= ls for VPN packets.

&=23160;

a) =46or a plain IPv4 route R4 and a VPN route= Rv both steered into the SR-TE policy P1 with SID list <S1, S2, S3, S= 4, S5>, what will H perform in this situation=3F
b) What is the MSD of H=3F 6, 5 or 3=3F

&=23160;

Thanks,

Nat.

=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F
spring mailing list
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=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F
spring mailing list
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--

Gyan S. Mi= shra

IT Network= Engineering & Technology&=23160;

Verizon Co= mmunications&=23160;Inc. (VZ)

13101 Columbia Pike =46DC1 3rd =46loor<= /u>

Silver Spr= ing, MD 20904

United Sta= tes

Phone:&=23160;301 502-1347

Email:&=23160;gyan.s.mishr= a=40verizon.com

www.linkedin.com/in/networ= king-technologies-consultant

&=23160;

=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F
spring mailing list
spring=40= ietf.org
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=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F
spring mailing list
spring=40= ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/= spring
--

Gyan S. Mishra

IT Network Engineering & Technology&=23= 160;

Verizon Communications&=23160;Inc. (VZ)

13101 Columbia Pike =46DC1 3rd =46loor

Silver Spring, MD 20904

United States

Phone:&=23160;301 502-1347

Email:&=23160;gyan.s.mishra=40verizon.com<= span>

www.linkedin.com= /in/networking-technologies-consultant


=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F
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--5df983c5_1f404301_872b-- From nobody Tue Dec 17 22:20:55 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31D0D1208B2 for ; Tue, 17 Dec 2019 22:20:53 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=pyxisworks-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 53hyDWJ7CZgV for ; Tue, 17 Dec 2019 22:20:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ot1-x332.google.com (mail-ot1-x332.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::332]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B58A112006B for ; Tue, 17 Dec 2019 22:20:48 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ot1-x332.google.com with SMTP id p8so1039203oth.10 for ; Tue, 17 Dec 2019 22:20:48 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=pyxisworks-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=PtqvuCv+VJg3iLyt6LQV0vHlVeubFXfX7U+na8YnuBM=; b=zlNKpTIkb+JV0g5Vuyse4RMIXa+IYoEewnRCTWe22svvRfvB9nXhvAMSWtYSkbsL9Q iDzy1Oqp2mIS+lArBhWy81UxSJA3FmIvucupROCxtOn2NbUXXbqPZ9LPTqsXOofDYE1o cnaJl4+md+12uO7/WGRukJAE1JoONlfDzoUOU8UUTkA4Ryew8l6k9Fa/Qjpw+V8ai83U BOgJUZGPc0WXCkvf16zZA1qOgX+EZoy1WLzuh2YljKv9OfOIrvq8f5SWaZaHeJg0WVdC twvJFIA/ZnlAiRhVZJ62IeAszuEvGUZKQ8pZGyeeZV/hev0lpYaVIcpb15wd4MjdjO6v glbw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=PtqvuCv+VJg3iLyt6LQV0vHlVeubFXfX7U+na8YnuBM=; b=atRYzcrVNZc3ge9PX4mZWvTkMaTC/u8f/zgjZP1TI7/H0ePAjb5CJi50JYR69UbHr5 3OeWiB0+gpqQTTF6NXkTv+efvpFdic4QNvMpp1Zi0hXQYxvKsQLjK2gErSdtGru1XpSd 2IQgOm0nTd/Mo22FhgrenlLe5VODUue/Ltpspm8J4TKDHgW2dGEm5zoZBvSPBnBrlUdb D3NZjcZC7ANMr11oJ/OdVCA18rMexnfD+vFZ6wbUA9+MCsyPLVJ3ZGqadxrhQtEPr+nA fymmaGZSCn9Ml6TgU676ckrHmvLmZ/xRtVhtgy0SGoM3MZ+cYg7K9WUC48eEzQFYp/Ut BUww== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXnJ0WnSiCmb1LNo8wUmEUUldBnnMSygREIshVuhD011UoQDF2m nMrYkdIxej0tzZXOwAqGaFRNlJ2jQSXnjqYfBctoGw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwYIpJR84gwKPwTgQXyCox4t/tqvBL7y14EyT4aStVlN2so0qqFBoxp0hJRqartjA2uobEujDxazCtWW3BDmJ8= X-Received: by 2002:a9d:7410:: with SMTP id n16mr903166otk.23.1576650047984; Tue, 17 Dec 2019 22:20:47 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <38b14bf5-b6d9-4d46-ad1d-d26d3376df51@Spark> In-Reply-To: From: Nat Kao Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2019 14:20:35 +0800 Message-ID: To: Jeff Tantsura , "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" Cc: Robert Raszuk , SPRING WG , Nat Kao Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000000baac20599f472d7" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Different MSDs for different traffic types on the same headend. X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2019 06:20:53 -0000 --0000000000000baac20599f472d7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Jeff & Ketan. For better discussion, let's assume these first: "TP-MSD" denotes the maximum transport label depth for traffic without service labels. "SRV-TP-MSD" denotes the maximum transport label depth for traffic with 1+ service label(s). Here's one of the use cases: A customized best-effort TE process: 1. Decide which route R (incl. VPN routes) to diverge from its shortest-path. 2. Compute SID-list S for R that satisfies the (TE or whatever) constraints= . 3a. If R is a plain IPv4/IPv6 route, we consult TP-MSD. If length(S) <=3D headend's TP-MSD: Inject an SR-TE policy candidate path P with color X by BGP. Inject a new route R' with color X and larger localpref value. else: This path is not feasible, consider another route. 3b. If R is a service route, we consult SRV-TP-MSD. If length(S) <=3D headend's SRV-TP-MSD: Inject an SR-TE policy candidate path P with color X by BGP. Inject a new route R' with color X and larger localpref value. else: This path is not feasible, consider another route. 4. Repeat 1 to 3 until the main objectives are met.(best-effort approach, some might fail) Notes: a) Clearly, BMI-MSD >=3D TP-MSD >=3D SRV-TP-MSD b) TP-MSD & SRV-TP-MSD can be signaled by the same methods as BMI-MSD. c) If a change on headend that modifies transport label depths(ex: recirculation), TP-MSD & SRV-TP-MSD shall reflect that change accordingly. d) If a change on headend that modifies transport label depths of certain LCs, TP-MSD & SRV-TP-MSD of those links shall reflect that change, too. Hope this helps. Regards, Nat On Wed, Dec 18, 2019 at 8:44 AM Jeff Tantsura wrote: > Hi Nat, > > Please bring your use case to the wg, MSD has specifically been designed > to address new types with a very little effort. > > Cheers, > Jeff > On Dec 17, 2019, 4:21 AM -0800, Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) < > ketant@cisco.com>, wrote: > > Hi Nat, > > > > The MSD framework enables us to define more/new MSD types. If there is a > real use-case and requirement (as you express) and the necessary MSD > type(s) can be formally defined then perhaps the WG can evaluate it. > > > > Thanks, > > Ketan > > > > *From:* spring *On Behalf Of* Nat Kao > *Sent:* 17 December 2019 17:16 > *To:* Robert Raszuk > *Cc:* SPRING WG ; Nat Kao > *Subject:* Re: [spring] Different MSDs for different traffic types on the > same headend. > > > > Hello, Robert. > > Surely the current BMI-MSD definition is sufficient for platforms without > artificial boundaries. > > In this ideal case, maximum labels available for SR-TE policy can be > inferred from BMI-MSD and VPN routes. > > > However we have 3 different artificial boundaries across 3 different > platforms now. > > Hardcoding these boundaries might not scale well. (Especially different O= S > versions may behave differently.) > > A standard mechanism to discover this boundary would greatly help > constructing SR-TE policy candidate paths. > > > > Regards, > > Nat. > > > > > > On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 5:58 PM Robert Raszuk wrote: > > Hi Nat, > > > > I am having a bit of difficulty understanding reasoning and the way you > are separating transport from service labels. > > > > The processing label limit usually comes from data plane capabilities of > the platform namely LFIB or hardware below. > > > > Such layer is function agnostic and it does not matter what role the labe= l > serves. > > > > Label lookup results in pointer to a adj. rewrite on the outbound side. I= t > really does not matter if the adjacent peer is your P router, segment > endpoint or CE. > > > > Of course there are number of processing exceptions - for example concept > of aggregate VPN label, additional header modifications etc ... > > > > Likely some platforms put such artificial boundary between transport and > service hence your request. But if so IMHO this is more of an issue with > specific platform or its marketing message then IETF :). > > > > Many thx, > R. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 6:06 AM Nat Kao wrote: > > Hi, Jeff. > > Consider a headend that can perform 1 of the following 2 modes(but not > both): > > 1) Plain IPv4: 6 transport labels + 0 service label =3D> traffic can be > steered into a 6-label SR-TE policy. > > 2) Any type of VPN: 3 transport labels + 1~3 service labels =3D> traffic > cannot be steered into a 6-label SR-TE policy. > > a) As defined in RFC8491, the BMI-MSD is 6 for this headend. Do we have a > standardized way to signal the transport label depth in mode 2? > > Maybe in a different MSD type? > > b) Since plain IPv4 and VPN routes can be steered into the same SR-TE > policy, do we have a standardized headend behavior in this situation? > > (Should I open a new thread to discuss this? It seems not quite > MSD-relative.) > > > > Thanks... > > Nat > > > > On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 7:19 AM Jeff Tantsura > wrote: > > Gyan, > > > > MSD is only relevant for a device that either imposes the label stack > (head-end) or manipulates it (BSID anchor). There are some other constrai= ns > when it comes to entropy labels and ERLD, please read the respective draf= ts. > > In general, SID stack would grow when TE is in use (any time you need to > use additional SID to deviate from SPT), another case is when additional > SID=E2=80=99s are used for services on the nodes, other than the tail-end= . > > That=E2=80=99s why we've designed MSD to be very flexible to accommodate = all the > different use cases, it is upto computational logic to decide how to deal > with different constrains (MSD types) > > > > Cheers, > > Jeff > > > > P.S. you might want to see the NANOG MSD presentation I did some time ago= . > > > https://pc.nanog.org/static/published/meetings/NANOG71/1424/20171004_Tant= sura_The_Critical_Role_v1.pdf > > On Dec 14, 2019, 11:59 PM -0800, Gyan Mishra , > wrote: > > Jeff > > > > With SR-MPLS with SR-TR let=E2=80=99s say if you use cSPF snd don=E2=80= =99t have an ERO > strict explicit path defined or is a loose path, then the for the cSPF > would the transport labels be 1. For loose would also be 1 also. If the > path were explicit defined to egress PE and was 7 hops from ingress to > egress then transport would be 6. And if L3 vpn service sid was signaled > that would be 1 vpn label. > > > > Let me know if I have that right. > > > > In Nats scenario for IPv6 he has 3 vpnv6 labels. > > > > Why is that? > > > > With both SR-MPLS and SRv6 the L3 vpn AFI/SAFI MBGP services overlay > single label sits on top off SR as if does today with MPLS so why 3 vpn > labels. > > > > So with this draft with BGP-LS and BMI-MSD you can flood into the IGP the > SID depth so all the nodes along the SR-TE path don=E2=80=99t go over the= maximum > which would result in an error. > > > > If you set your MTU high enough in the core like 9216, does that overcome > the SID depth issues with SR-TE? > > > > Warm regards, > > > > Gyan > > > > On Sat, Dec 14, 2019 at 2:43 AM Nat Kao wrote: > > Hi, Jeff. > > > > Thanks for the BMI-MSD reference. If I understand correctly: > > > > BMI-MSD =3D Transport Label Depth + Service Label Depth > > Only former can be utilized by SR-TE policies. > > > > Currently do we have any method to determine the composition of BMI? > > We need to know the transport label depth when doing service route > per-destination steering. > > > > This problem arises when trying to steer a plain IPv4 route and a VPN > service route into the same SR-TE policy that exceeds the transport label > depth of the service route. I'm trying to figure out the standard behavio= r > in this case since the headend we use currently produces some interesting > results. > > > > Regards, > > Nat. > > > > On Sat, Dec 14, 2019 at 2:42 AM Jeff Tantsura > wrote: > > Hi Nat, > > > > Please read https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8491#section-5 > > Currently defined MSD types are: > > 1: BMI > > 2: ERLD > > > > Specifically to BMI: > > Base MPLS Imposition MSD (BMI-MSD) signals the total number of MPLS label= s > that can be imposed, including all service/transport/special labels. > > The answer to your question is 6 > > > > Cheers, > > Jeff > > On Dec 13, 2019, 3:42 AM -0800, Nat Kao , wrote: > > Hello, SPRING WG. > > How do we deal with an SR-TE policy headend with different MSDs for > different types of traffic? > > For example, a headend H can impose: > 6 transport labels for plain IPv4 packets; > 5 transport labels + 1 IPv6 ExpNull label for plain IPv6 packets; > > 3 transport labels + 3 VPN labels for VPN packets. > > > > a) For a plain IPv4 route R4 and a VPN route Rv both steered into the > SR-TE policy P1 with SID list , what will H perform i= n > this situation? > b) What is the MSD of H? 6, 5 or 3? > > > > Thanks, > > Nat. > > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > > -- > > Gyan S. Mishra > > IT Network Engineering & Technology > > Verizon Communications Inc. (VZ) > > 13101 Columbia Pike FDC1 3rd Floor > > Silver Spring, MD 20904 > > United States > > Phone: 301 502-1347 > > Email: gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com > > www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies-consultant > > > > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > > --0000000000000baac20599f472d7 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi, Jeff & Ketan.

Fo= r better discussion, let's assume these first:

"TP-MSD"= ; denotes the maximum transport label depth for traffic without service lab= els.
"SRV-TP-MSD" denotes the maximum transport lab= el depth for traffic with 1+ service label(s).

Here= 's one of the use cases:

A customized best-effort TE process:
1. Decide which route R (incl. VPN routes) to diverge from = its shortest-path.

2. Compute SID-list S for R that satis= fies the (TE or whatever) constraints.

3a. If R is a plain IPv4/IPv6= route, we consult TP-MSD.
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 If length(S) <=3D heade= nd's TP-MSD:
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 I= nject an SR-TE policy candidate path P with color X by BGP.
= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Inject a new route R' with c= olor X and larger localpref value.
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 else:
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 This path is not fe= asible, consider another route.

3b. If R is a service rou= te, we consult SRV-TP-MSD.
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 If length(S) &l= t;=3D headend's SRV-TP-MSD:
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Inject an SR-TE policy candidate path P with color X by BGP= .
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Inject a new rou= te R' with color X and larger localpref value.
=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0 else:
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Th= is path is not feasible, consider another route.

4. Repea= t 1 to 3 until the main objectives are met.(best-effort approach, some migh= t fail)

Notes:

a) Clearly, BMI-MSD >=3D TP-MSD = >=3D SRV-TP-MSD
b) TP-MSD & SRV-TP-MSD can be signaled= by the same methods as BMI-MSD.
c) If a change on headend th= at modifies transport label depths(ex: recirculation), TP-MSD & SRV-TP-= MSD shall reflect that change accordingly.
d) If a change on = headend that modifies transport label depths of certain LCs, TP-MSD & S= RV-TP-MSD of those links shall reflect that change, too.

=
Hope this helps.

Regards,
Nat




On Wed, Dec 18, 2019 at 8:44= AM Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.i= etf@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Nat,

Please bring your use case to the wg, MSD has specificall= y=C2=A0been=C2=A0designed to address new types with a ve= ry little effort.

Cheers,
Jeff
On Dec 17, 2019, 4:21 AM -0800, Ketan Tal= aulikar (ketant) <= ketant@cisco.com>, wrote:

Hi Nat,

=C2=A0

The MSD framework enables us to define more/ne= w MSD types. If there is a real use-case and requirement (as you express) a= nd the necessary MSD type(s) can be formally defined then perhaps the WG ca= n evaluate it.

=C2=A0

Thanks,

Ketan

=C2=A0

From: spring <spring-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Nat Kao
Sent: 17 December 2019 17:16
To: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Cc: SPRING WG <spring@ietf.org>; Nat Kao <lekao@pyxisworks.org>
Subject: Re: [spring] Different MSDs for different traffic types on = the same headend.

=C2=A0

Hello, Robert.

Surely the current BMI-MSD definition is sufficient = for platforms without artificial boundaries.

In this ideal case, maximum labels available for SR-= TE policy can be inferred from BMI-MSD and VPN routes.


However we have 3 different artificial boundaries across 3 different platfo= rms now.

Hardcoding these boundaries might not scale well. (E= specially different OS versions may behave differently.)

A standard mechanism to discover this boundary would= greatly help constructing SR-TE policy candidate paths.

=C2=A0

Regards,

Nat.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 5:58 PM Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net&= gt; wrote:

Hi Nat,

=C2=A0

I am having a bit of difficulty understanding reason= ing and the way you are separating transport from service labels.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

The processing label limit usually comes from data p= lane capabilities=C2=A0of the platform namely LFIB or hardware below.=C2=A0=

=C2=A0

Such layer is function agnostic and it does not matt= er what role the label serves.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Label lookup results in pointer to a adj. rewrite on= the outbound side. It really does not matter if the adjacent=C2=A0peer is = your P router, segment endpoint=C2=A0or CE.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Of course there are number of processing exceptions = - for example concept of aggregate VPN label, additional header modificatio= ns etc ...=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Likely some platforms put such artificial=C2=A0bound= ary between transport=C2=A0and service hence your request. But if so IMHO t= his is more of an issue=C2=A0with specific platform or its marketing messag= e then IETF :).=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Many thx,
R.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 6:06 AM Nat Kao <lekao@pyxisworks.org= > wrote:

Hi, Jeff.

Consider a headend that can perform 1 of the followi= ng 2 modes(but not both):

1) Plain IPv4: 6 transport labels + 0 service label = =3D> traffic can be steered into a 6-label SR-TE policy.

2) Any type of VPN: 3 t= ransport labels + 1~3 service labels =3D> traffic cannot be steered into= a 6-label SR-TE policy.

a) As defined in RFC8491, the BMI-MSD is 6 for this = headend. Do we have a standardized way to signal the transport label depth = in mode 2?

=C2=A0=C2=A0 Maybe in a different MSD type?

b) Since plain IPv4 and VPN routes can be steered in= to the same SR-TE policy, do we have a standardized headend behavior in thi= s situation?

=C2=A0=C2=A0 (Should I open a new thread to discuss = this? It seems not quite MSD-relative.)

=C2=A0

Thanks...

Nat

=C2=A0

On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 7:19 AM Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gm= ail.com> wrote:

Gyan,

=C2=A0

MSD is only relevant for a device that either impose= s the label stack (head-end) or manipulates it (BSID anchor). There are som= e other constrains when it comes to entropy labels and ERLD, please read th= e respective drafts.

In general, SID stack would grow when TE is in use (= any time you need to use additional SID to deviate from SPT), another case = is when additional SID=E2=80=99s are used for services on the nodes, other = than the tail-end.

That=E2=80=99s why we've designed MSD to be very= flexible to accommodate all the different use cases, it is upto computatio= nal logic to decide how to deal with different constrains (MSD types)=C2=A0=

=C2=A0

Cheers,

Jeff

=C2=A0

P.S. you might want to see the NANOG MSD presentatio= n I did some time ago.

On Dec 14, 2019, 11:59 PM -0800, Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.c= om>, wrote:

Jeff

=C2=A0

With SR-MPLS with SR-TR let=E2=80=99s say if you use= cSPF snd don=E2=80=99t have an ERO strict explicit path defined or is a lo= ose path, then the for the cSPF would the transport labels be 1.=C2=A0 For = loose would also be 1 also.=C2=A0 If the path were explicit defined to egre= ss PE and was 7 hops from ingress to egress then transport would be 6.=C2= =A0 And if L3 vpn service sid was signaled that would be 1 vpn label. =C2= =A0

=C2=A0

Let me know if I have that right. =C2=A0

=C2=A0

In Nats scenario for IPv6 he has 3 vpnv6 labels. =C2= =A0

=C2=A0

Why is that? =C2=A0

=C2=A0

With both SR-MPLS and SRv6 the L3 vpn AFI/SAFI MBGP = services overlay single label sits on top off SR as if does today with MPLS= so why 3 vpn labels.

=C2=A0

So with this draft with BGP-LS and BMI-MSD you can f= lood into the IGP the SID depth so all the nodes along the SR-TE path don= =E2=80=99t go over the maximum which would result in an error.

=C2=A0

If you set your MTU high enough in the core like 921= 6, does that overcome the SID depth issues with SR-TE?

=C2=A0

Warm=C2=A0regards,

=C2=A0

Gyan

=C2=A0

On Sat, Dec 14, 2019 at 2:43 AM Nat Kao <lekao@pyxisworks.org= > wrote:

Hi, Jeff.

=C2=A0

Thanks for the BMI-MSD reference. If I understand co= rrectly:

=C2=A0

BMI-MSD =3D Transport Label Depth + Service Label De= pth

Only former can be utilized by SR-TE policies.

=C2=A0

Currently do we have any method to determine the com= position of BMI?

We need to know the transport label depth when doing= service route per-destination steering.

=C2=A0

This problem arises when trying to steer a plain IPv= 4 route and a VPN service route into the same SR-TE policy that exceeds the= transport label depth of the service route. I'm trying to figure out t= he standard behavior in this case since the headend we use currently produc= es some interesting results.

=C2=A0

Regards,

Nat.

=C2=A0

On Sat, Dec 14, 2019 at 2:42 AM Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@g= mail.com> wrote:

Hi Nat,

=C2=A0

Currently defined MSD types are:=C2=A0

1: BMI

2: ERLD

=C2=A0

Specifically to BMI:

Base MPLS Imposition MSD (BMI-MSD) signals the total= number of MPLS=C2=A0labels that can be imposed, including all service/tran= sport/special=C2=A0labels.

The answer to your question is 6

=C2=A0

Cheers,

Jeff

On Dec 13, 2019, 3:42 AM -0800, Nat Kao <lekao@pyxisworks.org= >, wrote:

Hello, SPRING WG.

How do we deal with an SR-TE policy headend with dif= ferent MSDs for different types of traffic?

For example, a headend H can impose:
6 transport labels for plain IPv4 packets;
5 transport labels + 1 IPv6 ExpNull label for plain IPv6 packets;

3 transport labels=C2=A0+ 3 VPN=C2=A0 labels for VPN= packets.

=C2=A0

a) For a plain IPv4 route R4 and a VPN route Rv both= steered into the SR-TE policy P1 with SID list <S1, S2, S3, S4, S5>,= what will H perform in this situation?
b) What is the MSD of H? 6, 5 or 3?

=C2=A0

Thanks,

Nat.

_______________________________________________
spring mailing list
spring@ietf.org = https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring

_______________________________________________
spring mailing list
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--

Gyan S. Mishra

IT Network Engine= ering & Technology=C2=A0

Verizon Communica= tions=C2=A0Inc. (VZ)

13101 Columbia Pi= ke FDC1 3rd Floor

Silver Spring, MD= 20904

United States

Pho= ne:=C2=A0301 502-1347

Ema= il:=C2=A0gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com

www.linkedin.com/in/networki= ng-technologies-consultant

=C2=A0

_______________________________________________
spring mailing list
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--0000000000000baac20599f472d7-- From nobody Tue Dec 17 22:28:09 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 190241208B3 for ; Tue, 17 Dec 2019 22:28:08 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, FREEMAIL_REPLY=1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UpwKbIpqMldU for ; Tue, 17 Dec 2019 22:28:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-il1-x135.google.com (mail-il1-x135.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::135]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D00201200C7 for ; Tue, 17 Dec 2019 22:28:04 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-il1-x135.google.com with SMTP id v69so715312ili.10 for ; Tue, 17 Dec 2019 22:28:04 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=pe64ShISQo1neohJ5/NdQ6qYw6vBltjhQRWX7KP2o7Y=; b=Ls1M5hNVkIFQy9kj0gztNqpoRvVMi/nOfK9miqTa87Y826Ns19iWnRMn0z+3GztJ1f um/ivaF+8KOo1dGkykSHUTNpunNMLfZ7bvSZXXgAygynEK9TaOjIGnu8p4bAdP/j1dtl vKFsZ6NbaojdoFxuLxNwHMfD/uXmCY5/deiF5PjeZK0M74e4Uhqw5g95pxA0ZyhE83y6 6UvVcJJH4hnWqeLSS2ykXpqNNqr8W9oCwNS+kMjf/heThQ00o6zZaadgWiUbEjGiGDGF uYRSm/ub0L2Z6048oyoazkxa9NR6M+0WwLmhtHd6jp/adGKQiF8pUQ5tYdIMiY2dnTyH ++fg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=pe64ShISQo1neohJ5/NdQ6qYw6vBltjhQRWX7KP2o7Y=; b=t7eVyVLOELbmN1MUYAVuVJRBuu6BeKzxwuOJwECDXUR0aQOL9kB+t5vWptvuQt0XU8 WtJX3UQuNDwSwJ45SIVLf5w4nBBdCamfIY5fOoSHpzHMZSW3ApByf63OiSpJQCS8VGy7 LGEXjulIdACdRKa7WubvPziLeFlYt+jRqWpfaMknlKQqs2ptyCI8uim4+Kw+SvqZw3uG 5t42tBZtTWQRwVs8R1C6je/G6Aik6uJ7Pbc4WmULb4ixs7XuJK5JMz2Izh2paWnJ0FXs ouDLdAtBIeGIpCmdFzVgxrPYokksi+7UbLNYQl0EWuKDpqU4JtumYRXDxgXa970WhgXu l3ew== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAV+9r6g5Pbo0Pexx1e1QDXz9mbxH1Rr3Nx+olX5k/KGiD2/ZduG lFoY1qhNYeIdI0AlsLMrUjmvySmuoYmKM27B5L4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqznCSxG/K2zn4dEdoEGK66m4TwISMOgDmybDJ5W/Bfzihcmpn9tmlZZoI4fUqd58K6EvsWf68XZ0wsHFEkadgc= X-Received: by 2002:a92:4095:: with SMTP id d21mr422018ill.158.1576650483760; Tue, 17 Dec 2019 22:28:03 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <38b14bf5-b6d9-4d46-ad1d-d26d3376df51@Spark> <45229771-83a4-418c-89f8-f8217c72cda0@Spark> In-Reply-To: <45229771-83a4-418c-89f8-f8217c72cda0@Spark> From: Gyan Mishra Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2019 01:27:38 -0500 Message-ID: To: Jeff Tantsura Cc: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" , Nat Kao , Robert Raszuk , SPRING WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000000502e60599f48c47" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Different MSDs for different traffic types on the same headend. X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2019 06:28:08 -0000 --0000000000000502e60599f48c47 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks Jeff!! Kind regards I have a personal Cisco VIRL server server which I just finished building out the SP topology with two SP SR domains. Cisco XRv supports SRv6 in 6.6.1 so I have loaded the latest image 7.0.1 so hopefully have all features. Plan to get it all up and running tomorrow. Question- Since SR-MPLS uses an IPv4 data plane and since SRv6 uses IPv6 data plane is it possible to run SRv6 as an overlay both SR-MPLS and SRv6 together as two ships in the night. Would save on having to go back and forth between simulations if they can both live together so I can test both simultaneously. In-line questions follow up On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 8:41 PM Jeff Tantsura wrote: > Gyan, > > I wrote this presentation ~3 years ago, so the numbers are not necessaril= y > current. > > Please see inline, hope this helps you to better understand the technolog= y > behind the terminology. > Let me know if anything is unclear. > > Cheers, > Jeff > On Dec 17, 2019, 3:45 PM -0800, Gyan Mishra , > wrote: > > > Hi Ketan > > Is this the artificial boundary below for SR-TE from the document provide= d > by Jeff. > > MSD supported by different HW/SW differs widely : > =E2=80=93 Linux (kernel 4.10): 2 SID=E2=80=99s, some improvements recentl= y (as of 4.11) =E2=80=93 > Low end off the shelf (merchant) silicon, e.g. BCM Trident2: 3-5 SID=E2= =80=99s =E2=80=93 > High end off the shelf (merchant) silicon, e.g BCM Jericho1 : 4-7 SID=E2= =80=99s =E2=80=93 > Vendor=E2=80=99 silicon, e.g. Juniper=E2=80=99 Trio, Nokia=E2=80=99 FP3: = 4-10+ SID=E2=80=99s > > So if you are doing MPLS-TE w/o SR-TE policies reusing they MPLS data > plane the label stack is identical to MPLS just with different label rang= e > for SRGB 16000-23999 for absolute or indexed label. > > [jeff]SRGB is either configurable or a static label range, it doesn=E2=80= =99t have > to be identical with SR domain, indexing provides the abstraction (and > there=E2=80=99s life outside of Cisco ;-)) > > Label stack for SR-MPLS is identical to MPLS with single topmost label fo= r > label switching through the core and bottom of stack services label for L= 3 > vpn services. > > [jeff] NH in the VPN route is recursively resolved to a LSP (or policy in > modern lingo) that could have 1 or more SID=E2=80=99s associated with it = (). In > MPLS case, without TE, would be the label/N-SID of the egress PE, the SID > stack would grow any time you need to use Adj-SID=E2=80=99s to deviate fr= om SPT. > Specifically to SR, egress PE can also associate a particular path (color= ) > with the route and signal to the ingress PE what path to take in order to > reach it (NH). > [gyan] So if you are running just SR-MPLS using SPF path and don=E2=80= =99t deviate from that then with prefix/node SID which I believe is like the egress PE ibgp NH loopback FEC destination, that you have a SID label binding for your LSP to build topmost reusing the MPLS data plane. In the case described there would be only 1 transport label. Correct? You would only have an Adj-SID if you are doing SR-TE. Correct? In that case if you had one Adj-SID in the middle of the path like a loose explicit route object ERO, then would still be only 1 transport label in the stack as if you were not doing SR-TE. Or would it be 2 labels, not sure. So let=E2=80=99s say If your SR-TE path deviated from the spf along 10 hops= , so then you would have 10 Adj-SIDs and so 10 labels in the stack. So this is where MSD and BGP-LS IGP extensions come into play to signal back to the head end that the maximum SID depth has exceeded resulting in an error. At that point the SR-TE LSP would be broken and you would have to manually build policy with less strict hops. I guess If you were using PCEP centralized controller that would signal MSD exceeded but I think you would still be in a broken LSP state. The pcep controller would have to be sitting next to the head end for the SR-TE policy for the LSP to fix automatically. Is that correct? So for SR-TE due to the MSD issues and SID depth asic limitations even with the latest asic, you really have to deploy a pcep controller based architecture near the head end with SR-MPLS if using SR-TE. If you are not using SR-TE then I believe there is really no benefit of going to SR-MPLS. You agree. I guess you save on having to maintain ldp state on each node. Thats not a big deal or business justification to switch to SR-MPLS as for operators =E2=80=9CMPLS=E2=80=9D is their bread & butter they are use to so why chang= e. I think the big benefit for both SR-MPLS and SRv6 is individual coloring of vpn flows. Cisco calls it per-VRF TE, but it=E2=80=99s ugly to configure a= nd manage. So SR-MPLS and SRv6 is the future solution for operators that need the per vpn coloring. Given the issues with SR-TE with SID depth asic limitations is it possible to use traditional RSVP TE. I am going to try in my virl setup as that could be a good workaround for SR-TE hardware limitations until the hardware is up to snuff to handle very long explicit paths. I believe their is a draft with teas in the works for IP TE to use rsvp bandwidth signaling path and reserve messages with both SR-MPLS and SRv6. > For clarity on nomenclature below please comment: > > Transport label - This is the SID label stack insertion at the ingress PE > head end to the SR-MPLS domain performing SR-TE. Each hop along the way > hop the top SID label is popped until SL=3D=3D0 at which time PHP default= or > UHP explicit null =E2=80=9Cpipe mode=E2=80=9D is performed. (Similar to t= opmost in MPLS > label switch world but now its a stack of labels instead of a single > label) > > [jeff] There=E2=80=99s no SL field in MPLS header, there=E2=80=99s howeve= r BoS bit that > should be set on the most bottom label (in this case - VPN label), PHP is > explicitly signaled by the egress PE (P/NP-flag in Prefix-SID) > > > Once you get past the transport label now you are on common ground with > M-BGP overlay services > > Services label- L3 vpn service SID signaled. > So with the service label that is signaled from ingress to egress PE for > service. Is this a single label like traditional L3 vpn aggregate label = or > more then one or many labels. > > [jeff] there=E2=80=99s no differences with any other VPNoverFoo, service = labels > are signaled in exactly same way independently of the transport and are > locally significant (that=E2=80=99s why LxVPN=E2=80=99s are such a great = technology) > > > The services label my guess should be fixed and not have any vendor > specific boundary constraints. > > [jeff] they are locally significant, in any implementation - label blocks > are associated with particular functions and programmed in HW, so the > service label would come out of the service range, which is significant t= o > the device advertising it. > In modern OS=E2=80=99s the ranges are configurable, in older ones, it is = static > and there=E2=80=99s usually a header file that looks like: > #define MPLS_L3VPN_MIN_LABEL 0x40000 > #define MPLS_L3VPN_MAX_LABEL 0x85FFF > > > Gyan > > On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 7:21 AM Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) < > ketant@cisco.com> wrote: > >> Hi Nat, >> >> >> >> The MSD framework enables us to define more/new MSD types. If there is a >> real use-case and requirement (as you express) and the necessary MSD >> type(s) can be formally defined then perhaps the WG can evaluate it. >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> Ketan >> >> >> >> *From:* spring *On Behalf Of* Nat Kao >> *Sent:* 17 December 2019 17:16 >> *To:* Robert Raszuk >> *Cc:* SPRING WG ; Nat Kao >> *Subject:* Re: [spring] Different MSDs for different traffic types on >> the same headend. >> >> >> >> Hello, Robert. >> >> Surely the current BMI-MSD definition is sufficient for platforms withou= t >> artificial boundaries. >> >> In this ideal case, maximum labels available for SR-TE policy can be >> inferred from BMI-MSD and VPN routes. >> >> >> However we have 3 different artificial boundaries across 3 different >> platforms now. >> >> Hardcoding these boundaries might not scale well. (Especially different >> OS versions may behave differently.) >> >> A standard mechanism to discover this boundary would greatly help >> constructing SR-TE policy candidate paths. >> >> >> >> Regards, >> >> Nat. >> >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 5:58 PM Robert Raszuk wrote: >> >> Hi Nat, >> >> >> >> I am having a bit of difficulty understanding reasoning and the way you >> are separating transport from service labels. >> >> >> >> The processing label limit usually comes from data plane capabilities of >> the platform namely LFIB or hardware below. >> >> >> >> Such layer is function agnostic and it does not matter what role the >> label serves. >> >> >> >> Label lookup results in pointer to a adj. rewrite on the outbound side. >> It really does not matter if the adjacent peer is your P router, segment >> endpoint or CE. >> >> >> >> Of course there are number of processing exceptions - for example concep= t >> of aggregate VPN label, additional header modifications etc ... >> >> >> >> Likely some platforms put such artificial boundary between transport and >> service hence your request. But if so IMHO this is more of an issue with >> specific platform or its marketing message then IETF :). >> >> >> >> Many thx, >> R. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 6:06 AM Nat Kao wrote: >> >> Hi, Jeff. >> >> Consider a headend that can perform 1 of the following 2 modes(but not >> both): >> >> 1) Plain IPv4: 6 transport labels + 0 service label =3D> traffic can be >> steered into a 6-label SR-TE policy. >> >> 2) Any type of VPN: 3 transport labels + 1~3 service labels =3D> traffic >> cannot be steered into a 6-label SR-TE policy. >> >> a) As defined in RFC8491, the BMI-MSD is 6 for this headend. Do we have = a >> standardized way to signal the transport label depth in mode 2? >> >> Maybe in a different MSD type? >> >> b) Since plain IPv4 and VPN routes can be steered into the same SR-TE >> policy, do we have a standardized headend behavior in this situation? >> >> (Should I open a new thread to discuss this? It seems not quite >> MSD-relative.) >> >> >> >> Thanks... >> >> Nat >> >> >> >> On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 7:19 AM Jeff Tantsura >> wrote: >> >> Gyan, >> >> >> >> MSD is only relevant for a device that either imposes the label stack >> (head-end) or manipulates it (BSID anchor). There are some other constra= ins >> when it comes to entropy labels and ERLD, please read the respective dra= fts. >> >> In general, SID stack would grow when TE is in use (any time you need to >> use additional SID to deviate from SPT), another case is when additional >> SID=E2=80=99s are used for services on the nodes, other than the tail-en= d. >> >> That=E2=80=99s why we've designed MSD to be very flexible to accommodate= all the >> different use cases, it is upto computational logic to decide how to dea= l >> with different constrains (MSD types) >> >> >> >> Cheers, >> >> Jeff >> >> >> >> P.S. you might want to see the NANOG MSD presentation I did some time ag= o. >> >> >> https://pc.nanog.org/static/published/meetings/NANOG71/1424/20171004_Tan= tsura_The_Critical_Role_v1.pdf >> >> On Dec 14, 2019, 11:59 PM -0800, Gyan Mishra , >> wrote: >> >> Jeff >> >> >> >> With SR-MPLS with SR-TR let=E2=80=99s say if you use cSPF snd don=E2=80= =99t have an ERO >> strict explicit path defined or is a loose path, then the for the cSPF >> would the transport labels be 1. For loose would also be 1 also. If th= e >> path were explicit defined to egress PE and was 7 hops from ingress to >> egress then transport would be 6. And if L3 vpn service sid was signale= d >> that would be 1 vpn label. >> >> >> >> Let me know if I have that right. >> >> >> >> In Nats scenario for IPv6 he has 3 vpnv6 labels. >> >> >> >> Why is that? >> >> >> >> With both SR-MPLS and SRv6 the L3 vpn AFI/SAFI MBGP services overlay >> single label sits on top off SR as if does today with MPLS so why 3 vpn >> labels. >> >> >> >> So with this draft with BGP-LS and BMI-MSD you can flood into the IGP th= e >> SID depth so all the nodes along the SR-TE path don=E2=80=99t go over th= e maximum >> which would result in an error. >> >> >> >> If you set your MTU high enough in the core like 9216, does that overcom= e >> the SID depth issues with SR-TE? >> >> >> >> Warm regards, >> >> >> >> Gyan >> >> >> >> On Sat, Dec 14, 2019 at 2:43 AM Nat Kao wrote: >> >> Hi, Jeff. >> >> >> >> Thanks for the BMI-MSD reference. If I understand correctly: >> >> >> >> BMI-MSD =3D Transport Label Depth + Service Label Depth >> >> Only former can be utilized by SR-TE policies. >> >> >> >> Currently do we have any method to determine the composition of BMI? >> >> We need to know the transport label depth when doing service route >> per-destination steering. >> >> >> >> This problem arises when trying to steer a plain IPv4 route and a VPN >> service route into the same SR-TE policy that exceeds the transport labe= l >> depth of the service route. I'm trying to figure out the standard behavi= or >> in this case since the headend we use currently produces some interestin= g >> results. >> >> >> >> Regards, >> >> Nat. >> >> >> >> On Sat, Dec 14, 2019 at 2:42 AM Jeff Tantsura > > wrote: >> >> Hi Nat, >> >> >> >> Please read https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8491#section-5 >> >> Currently defined MSD types are: >> >> 1: BMI >> >> 2: ERLD >> >> >> >> Specifically to BMI: >> >> Base MPLS Imposition MSD (BMI-MSD) signals the total number of >> MPLS labels that can be imposed, including all >> service/transport/special labels. >> >> The answer to your question is 6 >> >> >> >> Cheers, >> >> Jeff >> >> On Dec 13, 2019, 3:42 AM -0800, Nat Kao , wrote: >> >> Hello, SPRING WG. >> >> How do we deal with an SR-TE policy headend with different MSDs for >> different types of traffic? >> >> For example, a headend H can impose: >> 6 transport labels for plain IPv4 packets; >> 5 transport labels + 1 IPv6 ExpNull label for plain IPv6 packets; >> >> 3 transport labels + 3 VPN labels for VPN packets. >> >> >> >> a) For a plain IPv4 route R4 and a VPN route Rv both steered into the >> SR-TE policy P1 with SID list , what will H perform = in >> this situation? >> b) What is the MSD of H? 6, 5 or 3? >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> Nat. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> spring mailing list >> spring@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring >> >> _______________________________________________ >> spring mailing list >> spring@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring >> >> -- >> >> Gyan S. Mishra >> >> IT Network Engineering & Technology >> >> Verizon Communications Inc. (VZ) >> >> 13101 Columbia Pike >> >> FDC1 3rd Floor >> >> Silver Spring, MD 20904 >> >> United States >> >> Phone: 301 502-1347 >> >> Email: gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com >> >> www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies-consultant >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> spring mailing list >> spring@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring >> >> _______________________________________________ >> spring mailing list >> spring@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring >> > -- > > Gyan S. Mishra > > IT Network Engineering & Technology > > Verizon Communications Inc. (VZ) > > 13101 Columbia Pike > > FDC1 3rd Floor > > Silver Spring, MD 20904 > > United States > > Phone: 301 502-1347 > > Email: gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com > > www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies-consultant > > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > > -- Gyan S. Mishra IT Network Engineering & Technology Verizon Communications Inc. (VZ) 13101 Columbia Pike FDC1 3rd Floor Silver Spring, MD 20904 United States Phone: 301 502-1347 Email: gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies-consultant --0000000000000502e60599f48c47 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Thanks Jeff!!
=
Kind=C2=A0regards

I have a personal Cisco VIRL server server which I ju= st finished building out the SP topology with two SP SR domains.=C2=A0 Cisc= o XRv supports SRv6 in 6.6.1 so I have loaded the latest image 7.0.1 so hop= efully have all features.=C2=A0 Plan to get it all up and running tomorrow.=

Question- =C2=A0Since S= R-MPLS uses an IPv4 data plane and since SRv6 uses IPv6 data plane is it po= ssible to run SRv6 as an overlay both SR-MPLS and SRv6 together as two ship= s in the night.=C2=A0 Would save on having to go back and forth between sim= ulations if they can both live together =C2=A0so I can test both simultaneo= usly.

In-line questions = follow up

On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 8:41 PM Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:
=
Gyan,

I wrote this presentation ~3 years ago, so the numbers ar= e not necessarily current.

Please see inline, hope this helps you to better understa= nd the technology behind the terminology.
Let me know if anything is unclear.

Cheers,
Jeff
On Dec 17, 2019, 3:45 PM -0800, Gyan Mish= ra <hayabusag= sm@gmail.com>, wrote:

Hi Ketan=C2=A0

Is this the artificial boundary below for SR-TE from the = document provided by Jeff.

=C2=A0MSD supported by different HW/SW differs widely :
=E2=80=93 Linux (kernel 4.10): 2 SID=E2=80=99s, some impr= ovements recently (as of 4.11) =E2=80=93 Low end off the shelf (merchant) s= ilicon, e.g. BCM Trident2: 3-5 SID=E2=80=99s =E2=80=93 High end off the she= lf (merchant) silicon, e.g BCM Jericho1 : 4-7 SID=E2=80=99s =E2=80=93 Vendo= r=E2=80=99 silicon, e.g. Juniper=E2=80=99 Trio, Nokia=E2=80=99 FP3: 4-10+ S= ID=E2=80=99s

So if you are doing MPLS-TE w/o SR-TE policies reusing th= ey MPLS data plane the label stack is identical to MPLS just with different= label range for SRGB 16000-23999 for absolute or indexed label.=C2=A0
[jeff]SRGB is either configurable or a static label range, it doesn=E2= =80=99t have to be identical with SR domain, indexing provides the abstract= ion (and there=E2=80=99s life outside of Cisco ;-))=C2=A0
Label stack for SR-MPLS is identical to MPLS with single = topmost label for label switching through the core and bottom of stack serv= ices label for L3 vpn services.=C2=A0
[jeff] NH in the VPN route is recursively resolved to a LSP (or policy= in modern lingo) that could have 1 or more SID=E2=80=99s associated with i= t (). In MPLS case, without TE, would be the label/N-SID of the egress PE, = the SID stack would grow any time you need to use Adj-SID=E2=80=99s to devi= ate from SPT. Specifically to SR, egress PE can also associate a particular= path (color) with the route and signal to the ingress PE what path to take= in order to reach it (NH).

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 [gyan] So if you are running jus= t SR-MPLS using SPF path and don=E2=80=99t deviate from that then with pref= ix/node SID which I believe is like the egress PE ibgp NH loopback FEC dest= ination, that you have a SID label binding for your LSP to build topmost re= using the MPLS data plane.=C2=A0 In the case described there would be only = 1 transport label.=C2=A0 Correct?

You would only have an Adj-SID if you are doing SR-TE.=C2=A0 Corr= ect?=C2=A0 In that case if you had one Adj-SID in the middle of the path li= ke a loose explicit route object ERO, then would still be only 1 transport = label in the stack as if you were not doing SR-TE.=C2=A0 Or would it be 2 l= abels, not sure.

So let= =E2=80=99s say If your SR-TE path deviated from the spf along 10 hops, so t= hen you would have 10 Adj-SIDs and so 10 labels in the stack.=C2=A0 So this= is where MSD and BGP-LS IGP extensions come into play to signal back to th= e head end that the maximum SID depth has exceeded resulting in an error.= =C2=A0 At that point the=C2=A0
SR-TE LSP would be br= oken and you would have to manually build policy with less strict hops. =C2= =A0

I guess If you were = using PCEP centralized controller that would signal MSD exceeded but I thin= k you would still be in a broken LSP state.=C2=A0 The pcep controller would= have to be sitting next to the head end for the SR-TE policy for the LSP t= o fix automatically.=C2=A0 Is that correct?

So for SR-TE due to the MSD issues and SID depth asic l= imitations even with the latest asic, you really have to deploy a pcep cont= roller based architecture near the head end with SR-MPLS if using SR-TE.=C2= =A0 If you are not using SR-TE then I believe there is really no benefit of= going to SR-MPLS. =C2=A0

You agree. =C2=A0

I gu= ess you save on having to maintain ldp state on each node.=C2=A0 Thats =C2= =A0not a big deal or business justification to switch to SR-MPLS as for ope= rators =E2=80=9CMPLS=E2=80=9D is their bread & butter they are use to s= o why change. =C2=A0

I t= hink the big benefit for both SR-MPLS and SRv6 is individual coloring of vp= n flows.=C2=A0 Cisco calls it per-VRF TE, but it=E2=80=99s ugly to configur= e and manage. =C2=A0

So = SR-MPLS and SRv6 is the future solution for operators that need the per vpn= coloring.

Given the iss= ues with SR-TE with SID depth asic limitations is it possible to use tradit= ional RSVP TE.

I am goin= g to try in my virl setup as that could be a good workaround for SR-TE hard= ware limitations until the hardware is up to snuff to handle very long expl= icit paths.

I believe th= eir is a draft with teas in the works for IP TE to use rsvp bandwidth signa= ling path and reserve messages with both SR-MPLS and SRv6.


For clarity on nomenclature below please comment:

Transport label - This is the SID label stack insertion a= t the ingress PE head end to the SR-MPLS domain performing SR-TE.=C2=A0 Eac= h hop along the way hop the top SID label is popped until SL=3D=3D0 at whic= h time PHP default or UHP explicit null =E2=80=9Cpipe mode=E2=80=9D is perf= ormed. (Similar to topmost in MPLS label switch world but now its a stack o= f labels =C2=A0instead of a single label)=C2=A0
[jeff] There=E2=80=99s no SL field in MPLS header, there=E2=80=99s how= ever BoS bit that should be set on the most bottom label (in this case - VP= N label), PHP is explicitly signaled by the egress PE (P/NP-flag in Prefix-= SID)

Once you get past the transport label now you are on comm= on ground with M-BGP overlay services

Services label- L3 vpn service SID signaled.
So with the service label that is signaled from ingress t= o egress PE for service.=C2=A0 Is this a single label like traditional L3 v= pn aggregate label or more then one or many labels.=C2=A0
[jeff] there=E2=80=99s no differences with any other VPNoverFoo, servi= ce labels are signaled in exactly same way independently of the transport a= nd are locally significant (that=E2=80=99s why LxVPN=E2=80=99s are such a g= reat technology) =C2=A0

The services label my guess should be fixed and not have = any vendor specific boundary constraints.=C2=A0
[jeff] they are locally significant, in any implementation - label blo= cks are associated with particular functions and programmed in HW, so the s= ervice label would come out of the service range, which is significant to t= he device advertising it.
In modern OS=E2=80=99s the ranges are configurable, in ol= der ones, it is static and there=E2=80=99s usually a header file that looks= like:
#define MPLS_L3VPN_MIN_LABEL =C2=A00x40000
#define MPLS_L3VPN_MAX_LABEL 0x85FFF


Gyan

On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 7:21 AM Ketan= Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com> wrote:

Hi Nat,

=C2=A0

The MSD framework enables us to define more/ne= w MSD types. If there is a real use-case and requirement (as you express) a= nd the necessary MSD type(s) can be formally defined then perhaps the WG ca= n evaluate it.

=C2=A0

Thanks,

Ketan

=C2=A0

From: spring <spring-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Nat Kao
Sent: 17 December 2019 17:16
To: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Cc: SPRING WG <spring@ietf.org>; Nat Kao <lekao@pyxisworks.org>
Subject: Re: [spring] Different MSDs for different traffic types on = the same headend.

=C2=A0

Hello, Robert.=

Surely the current BMI-MSD definition is sufficient = for platforms without artificial boundaries.

In this ideal case, maximum labels available for SR-= TE policy can be inferred from BMI-MSD and VPN routes.


However we have 3 different artificial boundaries across 3 different platfo= rms now.

Hardcoding these boundaries might not scale well. (E= specially different OS versions may behave differently.)

A standard mechanism to discover this boundary would= greatly help constructing SR-TE policy candidate paths.

=C2=A0

Regards,

Nat.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 5:58 PM Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net&= gt; wrote:

Hi Nat,

=C2=A0

I am having a bit of difficulty understanding reason= ing and the way you are separating transport from service labels.=C2=A0<= /u>

=C2=A0

The processing label limit usually comes from data p= lane capabilities=C2=A0of the platform namely LFIB or hardware below.=C2=A0=

=C2=A0

Such layer is function agnostic and it does not matt= er what role the label serves.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Label lookup results in pointer to a adj. rewrite on= the outbound side. It really does not matter if the adjacent=C2=A0peer is = your P router, segment endpoint=C2=A0or CE.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Of course there are number of processing exceptions = - for example concept of aggregate VPN label, additional header modificatio= ns etc ...=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Likely some platforms put such artificial=C2=A0bound= ary between transport=C2=A0and service hence your request. But if so IMHO t= his is more of an issue=C2=A0with specific platform or its marketing messag= e then IETF :).=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Many thx,
R.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 6:06 AM Nat Kao <lekao@pyxisworks.org= > wrote:

Hi, Jeff.

Consider a headend that can perform 1 of the followi= ng 2 modes(but not both):

1) Plain IPv4: 6 transport labels + 0 service label = =3D> traffic can be steered into a 6-label SR-TE policy.

2) Any type of VPN: 3= transport labels + 1~3 service labels =3D> traffic cannot be steered in= to a 6-label SR-TE policy.

a) As defined in RFC8491, the BMI-MSD is 6 for this = headend. Do we have a standardized way to signal the transport label depth = in mode 2?

=C2=A0=C2=A0 Maybe in a different MSD type?

b) Since plain IPv4 and VPN routes can be steered in= to the same SR-TE policy, do we have a standardized headend behavior in thi= s situation?

=C2=A0=C2=A0 (Should I open a new thread to discuss = this? It seems not quite MSD-relative.)

=C2=A0

Thanks...

Nat

=C2=A0

On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 7:19 AM Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gm= ail.com> wrote:

Gyan,

=C2=A0

MSD is only relevant for a device that either impose= s the label stack (head-end) or manipulates it (BSID anchor). There are som= e other constrains when it comes to entropy labels and ERLD, please read th= e respective drafts.

In general, SID stack would grow when TE is in use (= any time you need to use additional SID to deviate from SPT), another case = is when additional SID=E2=80=99s are used for services on the nodes, other = than the tail-end.

That=E2=80=99s why we've designed MSD to be very= flexible to accommodate all the different use cases, it is upto computatio= nal logic to decide how to deal with different constrains (MSD types)=C2=A0=

=C2=A0

Cheers,

Jeff

=C2=A0

P.S. you might want to see the NANOG MSD presentatio= n I did some time ago.

On Dec 14, 2019, 11:59 PM -0800, Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.c= om>, wrote:

Jeff

=C2=A0

With SR-MPLS with SR-TR let=E2=80=99s say if you use= cSPF snd don=E2=80=99t have an ERO strict explicit path defined or is a lo= ose path, then the for the cSPF would the transport labels be 1.=C2=A0 For = loose would also be 1 also.=C2=A0 If the path were explicit defined to egre= ss PE and was 7 hops from ingress to egress then transport would be 6.=C2= =A0 And if L3 vpn service sid was signaled that would be 1 vpn label. =C2= =A0

=C2=A0

Let me know if I have that right. =C2=A0

=C2=A0

In Nats scenario for IPv6 he has 3 vpnv6 labels. =C2= =A0

=C2=A0

Why is that? =C2=A0

=C2=A0

With both SR-MPLS and SRv6 the L3 vpn AFI/SAFI MBGP = services overlay single label sits on top off SR as if does today with MPLS= so why 3 vpn labels.

=C2=A0

So with this draft with BGP-LS and BMI-MSD you can f= lood into the IGP the SID depth so all the nodes along the SR-TE path don= =E2=80=99t go over the maximum which would result in an error.

=C2=A0

If you set your MTU high enough in the core like 921= 6, does that overcome the SID depth issues with SR-TE?

=C2=A0

Warm=C2=A0regards,

=C2=A0

Gyan

=C2=A0

On Sat, Dec 14, 2019 at 2:43 AM Nat Kao <lekao@pyxisworks.org= > wrote:

Hi, Jeff.

=C2=A0

Thanks for the BMI-MSD reference. If I understand co= rrectly:

=C2=A0

BMI-MSD =3D Transport Label Depth + Service Label De= pth

Only former can be utilized by SR-TE policies.

=C2=A0

Currently do we have any method to determine the com= position of BMI?

We need to know the transport label depth when doing= service route per-destination steering.

=C2=A0

This problem arises when trying to steer a plain IPv= 4 route and a VPN service route into the same SR-TE policy that exceeds the= transport label depth of the service route. I'm trying to figure out t= he standard behavior in this case since the headend we use currently produc= es some interesting results.

=C2=A0

Regards,

Nat.

=C2=A0

On Sat, Dec 14, 2019 at 2:42 AM Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@g= mail.com> wrote:

Hi Nat,

=C2=A0

Currently defined MSD types are:=C2=A0=

1: BMI

2: ERLD

=C2=A0

Specifically to BMI:

Base MPLS Imposition MSD (BMI-MSD) signals the total= number of MPLS=C2=A0labels that can be imposed, including all service/tran= sport/special=C2=A0labels.

The answer to your question is 6

=C2=A0

Cheers,

Jeff

On Dec 13, 2019, 3:42 AM -0800, Nat Kao <lekao@pyxisworks.org= >, wrote:

Hello, SPRING WG.<= /u>

How do we deal with an SR-TE policy headend with dif= ferent MSDs for different types of traffic?

For example, a headend H can impose:
6 transport labels for plain IPv4 packets;
5 transport labels + 1 IPv6 ExpNull label for plain IPv6 packets;=

3 transport labels=C2=A0+ 3 VPN=C2=A0 labels for VPN= packets.

=C2=A0

a) For a plain IPv4 route R4 and a VPN route Rv both= steered into the SR-TE policy P1 with SID list <S1, S2, S3, S4, S5>,= what will H perform in this situation?
b) What is the MSD of H? 6, 5 or 3?

=C2=A0

Thanks,

Nat.

_______________________________________________
spring mailing list
spring@ietf.org = https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring

_______________________________________________
spring mailing list
spring@ietf.org = https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring

--

Gyan S. Mishra<= u>

IT Network Engineering= & Technology=C2=A0

Verizon Communications= =C2=A0Inc. (VZ)

13101 Columbia Pike FDC1 3rd Floor

Silver Spring, MD 2090= 4

United States

Phone:= =C2=A0301 502-1347

Email:= =C2=A0gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com<= u>

= www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies-consultant=

=C2=A0

_______________________________________________
spring mailing list
spring@ietf.org = https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring

_______________________________________________
spring mailing list
spring@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
--

Gyan S. Mishra

IT Network Engineering & Technology=C2=A0

Verizon Communications=C2=A0Inc. (VZ)

13101 Columbia Pike FDC1 3rd Flo= or

Silver Spring, MD 20904

United StatesPhone:=C2=A0301 502-1347

Email:=C2=A0gyan.s.mis= hra@verizon.com

www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies-consul= tant


_______________________________________________
spring mailing list
spring@ietf.org = https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
--
<= div dir=3D"ltr">

Gyan S. Mishra

IT Networ= k Engineering & Technology=C2=A0=

Verizon Communications=C2=A0Inc. (VZ)=

13101 Columbia Pike FDC1 3rd Floor

=

Silver Spring, MD 20904

United States<= span style=3D"color:rgb(80,0,80);background-image:initial;background-positi= on:initial;background-repeat:initial">

Phone:=C2=A0301 502-1347

Email:=C2=A0gyan.s.mishra@verizon.= com

www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies-co= nsultant


--0000000000000502e60599f48c47-- From nobody Tue Dec 17 22:32:24 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1C081208B7; Tue, 17 Dec 2019 22:32:22 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ToLqrVLA9JlL; Tue, 17 Dec 2019 22:32:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-vs1-xe2e.google.com (mail-vs1-xe2e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::e2e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BA8041208B4; Tue, 17 Dec 2019 22:32:19 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-vs1-xe2e.google.com with SMTP id b79so693549vsd.9; Tue, 17 Dec 2019 22:32:19 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=qkVqtP4wMk8sv0D5QkgMu4qjZk9AcpIUzvJ+lYaqjuk=; b=IZ7WpJVMV1djqFkPkSWwCVs9UXJUo6WmAjV3Q3zn8AG87s9bRs73bAdXZJFwSaUh/F cwmfafMduQQR1++2wdVqg+0z/Z8sUUrQYb8nIoSBljOTFWfwMhBw5KwrwyY6x461rsy/ Th1k9hWxDfpVX+ZvGNbGDU129AgBNwlnzDQjeo9GSCDkDVlubdMFBamJ/fmrYZAU2OMs SbbubTwkLcaR6VOnvj2RKAc6mfDzQL7b3M063Qyb23T9/f39OexMP/601rfNy3Y0L/rn bkkyW6sCzi5bk2kjluDNWdjqGxIiD1ZQg7byy1315WZkMqIZJTvFj9PtlTQYxPv5ZaxI f9iA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=qkVqtP4wMk8sv0D5QkgMu4qjZk9AcpIUzvJ+lYaqjuk=; b=sZtLlpdZKNOUh0AwZrqX5notUJDtcM5V25vTbNik83LeLQCWQjQL6hPvZVEIH9e0Ru Ut7YgKVYmJOxf79KfrTyi+PNp3+35HDX5S7uEPz8QUKV57MTHguJ3c8FvYGBj7aeajqz s9nwaROfZWNyrWr0atp1//lU3603jmlpJ1UGyJBEf3eAK9gUkBGj6RYJO8gUDSgPLBmd 04cNte6gwEQr6gC6tCDK+tC4lwl40i4Qm/B2fBiz+enlreBe4K22sxavHPZ+3zYKxxjH 6kwjDtRa13TeI+Ivn+nK6nTJcWezvkt/osQa0QtgDQL6Yyw6lBoPVYFNLsI1m8j3TxGm 21GA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXRgm7VTd7KQjy77z1mclHFx+gBo8JR31WLyzpNTDxM/2neDYdq XjYLXT7AfEAHr+rDIADea7o2U6bXuLpAnFG2DQ8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwdd2eWaJ9ukqZmmYRSbCHPj45HuJLNn6kWzuLk78HzHi2n4EFUTwJaCRMbZ9bhoYUSHDqz4S5/GUwGAvvPpe8= X-Received: by 2002:a67:fa1a:: with SMTP id i26mr429857vsq.204.1576650738659; Tue, 17 Dec 2019 22:32:18 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Hani Elmalky Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2019 22:31:42 -0800 Message-ID: To: ShaoWen Ma Cc: "Kamran Raza (skraza)" , "bruno.decraene@orange.com" , SPRING WG List , draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000003676a00599f49bea" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] IPR poll for draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2019 06:32:23 -0000 --0000000000003676a00599f49bea Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I=E2=80=99m not aware of any undisclosed IPR related to this document. / Hani Elmalky On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 1:06 AM ShaoWen Ma wrote: > Hi All, > > As a contributor, I=E2=80=99m not aware of any undisclosed IPR related = to this > document. > > Best Regards > Shaowen Ma > > On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 10:46 AM Kamran Raza (skraza) > wrote: > >> I=E2=80=99m not aware of any undisclosed IPR related to this document. >> >> Rgds, >> -- Kamran >> >> =EF=BB=BFOn 2019-12-16, 12:31 PM, "spring on behalf of Satish Mynam" < >> spring-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of satishm@arrcus.com> wrote: >> >> As contributor, I=E2=80=99m not aware of any undisclosed IPR related= to this >> document. >> >> Thanks, >> Satish >> >> >> On 12/5/19, 8:50 AM, "bruno.decraene@orange.com" < >> bruno.decraene@orange.com> wrote: >> >> Hi SPRING WG, >> >> In parallel to the WGLC for draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-progr= amming, >> we would like to poll for IPR. >> >> If you are aware of IPR that applies to >> draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming [1] please respond to this >> email. If you are aware of IPR, please indicate whether it has been >> disclosed in accordance with IETF IPR rules (RFCs 3979, 4879, >> 3669 and 5378 provide more details). >> >> If you are an *author or contributor* please respond to this >> email regardless of whether or not you're aware of any IPR. >> >> This document will not advance until IPR confirmations have been >> received from all authors and contributors. >> >> Thank you, >> Bruno >> >> [1] >> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-0= 5 >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> _____________________________________________________________ >> >> Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des >> informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc >> pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vou= s >> avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler >> a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les >> messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, >> Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, >> deforme ou falsifie. Merci. >> >> This message and its attachments may contain confidential or >> privileged information that may be protected by law; >> they should not be distributed, used or copied without >> authorisation. >> If you have received this email in error, please notify the >> sender and delete this message and its attachments. >> As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that >> have been modified, changed or falsified. >> Thank you. >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> spring mailing list >> spring@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> spring mailing list >> spring@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring >> > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > --0000000000003676a00599f49bea Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I=E2=80=99m not aware of any undiscl= osed IPR related to this document.

/ Hani Elmalky


On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 1:06 AM ShaoWen Ma <mashaowen@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi All,

= =C2=A0 As a= contributor, I=E2=80=99m not aware of any undisclosed IPR related to this = document.

Best Regards
Shaowen Ma

On Tue, Dec 17, 2= 019 at 10:46 AM Kamran Raza (skraza) <skraza@cisco.com> wrote:
I= =E2=80=99m not aware of any undisclosed IPR related to this document.

Rgds,
-- Kamran
=EF=BB=BFOn 2019-12-16, 12:31 PM, "spring on behalf of Satish Mynam&qu= ot; <spring= -bounces@ietf.org on behalf of satishm@arrcus.com> wrote:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 As contributor, I=E2=80=99m not aware of any undisclosed IPR = related to this document.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Thanks,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Satish

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 On 12/5/19, 8:50 AM, "bruno.decraene@orange.com" <bruno.decraene@ora= nge.com> wrote:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Hi SPRING WG,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 In parallel to the WGLC for draft-ietf-spring-s= rv6-network-programming, we would like to poll for IPR.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 If you are aware of IPR that applies to draft-i= etf-spring-srv6-network-programming [1] please respond to this email. If you ar= e aware of IPR, please indicate whether it has been
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 disclosed in accordance with IETF IPR rules (RF= Cs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 provide more details).
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 If you are an *author or contributor* please re= spond to this email regardless of whether or not you're aware of any IP= R.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 This document will not advance until IPR confir= mations have been received from all authors and contributors.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Thank you,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Bruno
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 [1] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming= -05

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 ___________________________________________________= ______________________________________________________________________
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent conten= ir des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans aut= orisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les= pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'altera= tion,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce messa= ge a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 This message and its attachments may contain co= nfidential or privileged information that may be protected by law;
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 they should not be distributed, used or copied = without authorisation.
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=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable = for messages that have been modified, changed or falsified.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Thank you.



=C2=A0 =C2=A0 _______________________________________________
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draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-06.txt Thread-Index: AdWy4hb6WRZE2f3ZSWKmDwtbtf5+NACj/4sg Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2019 08:08:20 +0000 Message-ID: References: <8532651c71c94715abfa96990aec3854@nokia-sbell.com> In-Reply-To: <8532651c71c94715abfa96990aec3854@nokia-sbell.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [135.251.51.115] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_d9df05ad8391437ab1a6b1e9ebfb6056nokiasbellcom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFprIIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsXS/ts4T7f03s9YgwUd/BbHL/xmdGD0WLLk J1MAYxSXTUpqTmZZapG+XQJXxoYZ05gKTq5grFh4ditzA+OjWYxdjJwcEgImEls+9rJ2MXJx CAkcYpLY13+UHcL5yygx9cgDNghnE6PEjQMLmUFa2ATcJCZt2wWU4OAQEVCXeHY0HCQsLBAi sffVWjYQW0QgVOLYm5nsELaRxMmmRUwgNouAqkTzz01gcV4BO4n2hfPBRgoB2R86OlhARnIK 2EusvskKEmYUEJP4fmoNWCuzgLjErSfzmSCOFpBYsuc8M4QtKvHy8T9WkFYJASWJvg1Q5akS Xx+dY4HYJChxcuYTlgmMIrOQTJqFpGwWkjKIuJbEvIbfUDWKElO6H7JD2JoSVyYfgrK1JZYt 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Hi SPRING WG and authors:

 

I need in further express my opinion about USD SID. =

From the content in this last draft, I find lots of = SIDs defined in draft, such as END.DX, END.DT, END.DX2 etc., which imply in= fact that the next-header immediately following SRH being processed are up= per-layer header such NH=3D=3D41 or 4 (IPv4 or IPv6 or Ethernet frame), which is payload in sense. So if the 2 c= ontext assumption mentioned in previous email, =A1=B0multi extension header= may exist and no successive multi SRHs in one packet=A1=B1, are removed, t= he behavior of SIDs mentioned above keep no change, because the 2 assumption has not effective for these SIDs. But reg= arding to END, END.X and END.T with USD, it may be impacted, because it is = possible that there are other extension headers residing between SRH and up= per-layer header,  as such, in order to decapsulate the outer header to expose inner packet (IPv4/6 or Ethernet= ), the SR-node has to handle all extension headers existing in this packet = until reaching the upper-layer header within its pseudocode module, the fun= ction of processing all extension headers has been in normal IPv6 module, so I think it is not necessary for= introducing USD, it is better to remove the USD definition.

 

I hope someone give reply on this question or point = out where is my misunderstanding.

 

Cheers!

 

Wang Weibin

 

From: Wang, Weibin (NSB - CN/Shanghai)
Sent: 2019=C4=EA12=D4=C215=C8=D5 10:09
To: Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril) <pcamaril@cisco.com>
Cc: 'spring@ietf.org' <spring@ietf.org>
Subject: USD/USP question in draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programm= ing-06.txt

 

Hi Pablo:

 

After the 2 context a= ssumption in previous version of this draft,  =A1=B0we assume that there is no other extension header than the SRH.=A1=B1  and  =A1=B0We as= sume

   that the SRH may be present multiple times inside each pac= ket=A1=B1, are removed in this last draft, I feel a bit confusion on USD SID, as well as combination of USD & USP.<= /p>

 

First, within the content of this last draft, the wo= rd =A1=B0Further on=A1=B1 marked red in the following pseudocode in section= =A1=B04.16.3=A1=B1 is hard to understand if the packet being processed has= other EH embed between SRH and Upper-layer header, such as AH or other EH, then the processing control of this packet will be pass= ed to normal IPv6 module from current SRH processing module in SR-Node, so = my question is : Can its control after completing AH processing (for exampl= e)  be back to SRH module (or call it pseudocode module) to proceed the next header like =A1=B0upper-lay head= er type =3D=3D41 or 4=A1=B1.

Or, if not, Did you created a new EH processing prot= ocol stack instance in parallel to normal IPv6 module within the scope of S= RH processing in SR-node.

 

4.16.3.  USD: Ultimate= Segment Decapsulation

 

S02.   If (Segments Left =3D=3D 0) {

   S03.      Skip the SRH processing= and proceed to the next header

   S04. &nbs= p; }

 

the Upper-layer header processing of the En= d, End.X and

   End.T behaviors are modified as follows:=

 

   End:

   S01. If (Upper-layer Header type =3D=3D 41 || 4) {

   S02.    Remove the outer IPv6 Header with a= ll its extension headers

   S03.    Submit the packet to the egress IP = FIB lookup and

            = ;  transmission to the new destination

   S04. } Else {

   S05.    Send an ICMP Parameter Problem mess= age to the Source Address

            = ;  Code 4 (SR Upper-layer Header Error),

            = ;  Pointer set to the offset of the upper-layer header.

            = ;  Interrupt packet processing and discard the packet.

 

   S06. }<= o:p>

 

From my understanding, the all processing action abo= ut specific SID must be completed successively. That is to say, upon USD, t= he upper-layer header (type 41 or 4) must be followed the SRH header being = processed currently, or second SRH following the same rule (of course, the draft not considering 2 or more su= ccessive SRHs).

 

Second, the mixed SIDs function with combination of = USD and USP (even PSP&USD&USP), I think, it is easy to understand w= hen the two assumption above exist, but now I think it isn=A1=AFt clear if = you only provide the following sentence in this draft, i.e.  =A1=B0if =A1=AD else=A1=AD=A1=B1 statement:

=A1=B0An implementation that supports the USD flavor in conjunction wit= h

   the USP flavor MAY optimize the packet processing by first= looking

   whether the conditions for the USD flavor are met, in whic= h case it

   can proceed wi= th USD processing else do USP processing.=A1=B1

This confusion is also described in my another mail.= Of course, if the first question is addressed then this confusion does not= exist.

 

By the way, is it really no different in text descri= ption before and after the two context assumption above removed?=

 

 

Cheers !

 

WANG Weibin=

--_000_d9df05ad8391437ab1a6b1e9ebfb6056nokiasbellcom_-- From nobody Wed Dec 18 02:01:36 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89463120025 for ; Wed, 18 Dec 2019 02:01:33 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.106 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.106 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RDNS_NONE=0.793, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zei6bnWP5k0G for ; Wed, 18 Dec 2019 02:01:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from cnshjsmin03.nokia-sbell.com (unknown [116.246.26.71]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 74885120071 for ; Wed, 18 Dec 2019 02:01:29 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: ac189297-0e1ff700000012ae-1c-5df9f8d52fee Received: from CNSHPPEXCH1608.nsn-intra.net (Unknown_Domain [135.251.51.108]) (using TLS with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by cnshjsmin03.nokia-sbell.com (Symantec Messaging Gateway) with SMTP id AA.76.04782.5D8F9FD5; Wed, 18 Dec 2019 18:00:53 +0800 (HKT) Received: from CNSHPPEXCH1605.nsn-intra.net (135.251.51.105) by CNSHPPEXCH1608.nsn-intra.net (135.251.51.108) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256) id 15.1.1713.5; Wed, 18 Dec 2019 18:00:52 +0800 Received: from CNSHPPEXCH1605.nsn-intra.net ([135.251.51.105]) by CNSHPPEXCH1605.nsn-intra.net ([135.251.51.105]) with mapi id 15.01.1713.007; Wed, 18 Dec 2019 18:00:52 +0800 From: "Wang, Weibin (NSB - CN/Shanghai)" To: "spring@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: USD/USP question in draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-06.txt Thread-Index: AdWy4hb6WRZE2f3ZSWKmDwtbtf5+NACj/4sgAAWyGNA= Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2019 10:00:52 +0000 Message-ID: <8b9d8f46098c4ae69c355d4f4b64dc59@nokia-sbell.com> References: <8532651c71c94715abfa96990aec3854@nokia-sbell.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [135.251.51.115] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_8b9d8f46098c4ae69c355d4f4b64dc59nokiasbellcom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFprIIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsXS/ts4R/fqj5+xBl0zOC2OX/jN6MDosWTJ T6YAxigum5TUnMyy1CJ9uwSujC+3D7MVvN7JWNHxq5OlgfHcKsYuRg4OCQETiXUNFl2MXBxC AoeYJL4972OHcP4ySjzbsIYJwtnEKNHV9oGli5GTg03ATWLStl1sIN0iAuoSz46Gg4SFBUIk 9r5aywZiiwiEShx7M5MdwraS2DjjG1icRUBVYs7aN0wgNq+AncTB+22MILaQQLHEjguHwGo4 Bewl5p9aD9bLKCAm8f3UGrB6ZgFxiVtP5oPZEgICEkv2nGeGsEUlXj7+xwrxjJJE3wao8lSJ xR9uQa0SlDg58wnLBEaRWUgmzUJSNgtJGURcS2Jew2+oGkWJKd0P2SFsTYkrkw9B2doSyxa+ 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well, I went through again some sections about speci= fic SIDs definition in last draft, I feel that SRH processing module (pseud= ocode module) include outright all kinds of EHs processing. OK.<= /p>

 

 

Cheers!

 

Wang Weibin

 

From: Wang, Weibin (NSB - CN/Shanghai)
Sent: 2019= =C4=EA12=D4= =C218=C8=D5<= /span> 16:08
To: spring@ietf.org
Subject: RE: USD/USP question in draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-prog= ramming-06.txt

 

Hi SPRING WG and authors:

 

I need in further express my opinion about USD SID. =

From the content in this last draft, I find lots of = SIDs defined in draft, such as END.DX, END.DT, END.DX2 etc., which imply in= fact that the next-header immediately following SRH being processed are up= per-layer header such NH=3D=3D41 or 4 (IPv4 or IPv6 or Ethernet frame), which is payload in sense. So if the 2 c= ontext assumption mentioned in previous email, =A1=B0multi extension header= may exist and no successive multi SRHs in one packet=A1=B1, are removed, t= he behavior of SIDs mentioned above keep no change, because the 2 assumption has not effective for these SIDs. But reg= arding to END, END.X and END.T with USD, it may be impacted, because it is = possible that there are other extension headers residing between SRH and up= per-layer header,  as such, in order to decapsulate the outer header to expose inner packet (IPv4/6 or Ethernet= ), the SR-node has to handle all extension headers existing in this packet = until reaching the upper-layer header within its pseudocode module, the fun= ction of processing all extension headers has been in normal IPv6 module, so I think it is not necessary for= introducing USD, it is better to remove the USD definition.

 

I hope someone give reply on this question or point = out where is my misunderstanding.

 

Cheers!

 

Wang Weibin

 

From: Wang, Weibin (NSB - CN/Shanghai)
Sent: 2019=C4=EA12=D4=C215=C8=D5 10:09
To: Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril) <pcamaril@cisco.com>
Cc: 'spring@ietf.org' <spring@= ietf.org>
Subject: USD/USP question in draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programm= ing-06.txt

 

Hi Pablo:

 

After the 2 context a= ssumption in previous version of this draft,  =A1=B0we assume that there is no other extension header than the SRH.=A1=B1  and  =A1=B0We as= sume

   that the SRH may be present multiple times inside each pac= ket=A1=B1, are removed in this last draft, I feel a bit confusion on USD SID, as well as combination of USD & USP.<= /p>

 

First, within the content of this last draft, the wo= rd =A1=B0Further on=A1=B1 marked red in the following pseudocode in section= =A1=B04.16.3=A1=B1 is hard to understand if the packet being processed has= other EH embed between SRH and Upper-layer header, such as AH or other EH, then the processing control of this packet will be pass= ed to normal IPv6 module from current SRH processing module in SR-Node, so = my question is : Can its control after completing AH processing (for exampl= e)  be back to SRH module (or call it pseudocode module) to proceed the next header like =A1=B0upper-lay head= er type =3D=3D41 or 4=A1=B1.

Or, if not, Did you created a new EH processing prot= ocol stack instance in parallel to normal IPv6 module within the scope of S= RH processing in SR-node.

 

4.16.3.  USD: Ultimate= Segment Decapsulation

 

S02.   If (Segments Left =3D=3D 0) {

   S03.      Skip the SRH processing= and proceed to the next header

   S04. &nbs= p; }

 

the Upper-layer header processing of the En= d, End.X and

   End.T behaviors are modified as follows:=

 

   End:

   S01. If (Upper-layer Header type =3D=3D 41 || 4) {

   S02.    Remove the outer IPv6 Header with a= ll its extension headers

   S03.    Submit the packet to the egress IP = FIB lookup and

            = ;  transmission to the new destination

   S04. } Else {

   S05.    Send an ICMP Parameter Problem mess= age to the Source Address

            = ;  Code 4 (SR Upper-layer Header Error),

            = ;  Pointer set to the offset of the upper-layer header.

            = ;  Interrupt packet processing and discard the packet.

 

   S06. }<= o:p>

 

From my understanding, the all processing action abo= ut specific SID must be completed successively. That is to say, upon USD, t= he upper-layer header (type 41 or 4) must be followed the SRH header being = processed currently, or second SRH following the same rule (of course, the draft not considering 2 or more su= ccessive SRHs).

 

Second, the mixed SIDs function with combination of = USD and USP (even PSP&USD&USP), I think, it is easy to understand w= hen the two assumption above exist, but now I think it isn=A1=AFt clear if = you only provide the following sentence in this draft, i.e.  =A1=B0if =A1=AD else=A1=AD=A1=B1 statement:

=A1=B0An implementation that supports the USD flavor in conjunction wit= h

   the USP flavor MAY optimize the packet processing by first= looking

   whether the conditions for the USD flavor are met, in whic= h case it

   can proceed wi= th USD processing else do USP processing.=A1=B1

This confusion is also described in my another mail.= Of course, if the first question is addressed then this confusion does not= exist.

 

By the way, is it really no different in text descri= ption before and after the two context assumption above removed?=

 

 

Cheers !

 

WANG Weibin

--_000_8b9d8f46098c4ae69c355d4f4b64dc59nokiasbellcom_-- From nobody Wed Dec 18 08:25:30 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5F17120994 for ; Wed, 18 Dec 2019 08:25:28 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.632 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.632 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id u81DVNxHZH9I for ; Wed, 18 Dec 2019 08:25:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from oxalide-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (oxalide-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr [132.168.224.13]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C71801209A1 for ; Wed, 18 Dec 2019 08:25:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by oxalide-sys.extra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id xBIGAdW7011571; Wed, 18 Dec 2019 17:10:39 +0100 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id 4568B207E3D; Wed, 18 Dec 2019 17:10:39 +0100 (CET) Received: from muguet1-smtp-out.intra.cea.fr (muguet1-smtp-out.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.12]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32A5A201B5B; Wed, 18 Dec 2019 17:10:39 +0100 (CET) Received: from [10.8.35.150] (is154594.intra.cea.fr [10.8.35.150]) by muguet1-sys.intra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id xBIGAdHu005788; Wed, 18 Dec 2019 17:10:39 +0100 To: Mark Smith , Robert Raszuk Cc: Andrew Alston , SPRING WG email list References: From: Alexandre Petrescu Message-ID: <54a97ad4-620f-a51a-1afd-75af0e24a1e6@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2019 17:10:39 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] packet captures for draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-06? X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2019 16:25:29 -0000 Excuse me for posting in reply interspersed to someone else. It's because I did not get the original from R. Raszuk. Le 17/12/2019 à 11:59, Mark Smith a écrit : > > > On Tue, 17 Dec 2019, 21:12 Robert Raszuk, > wrote: > > Hi Andrew, > > My personal opinion is that with below you are now going way outside > of what should be discussed on IETF mailing lists. I think his post is very valuable. > Hope SPRING charis will address it. Please take this more informal. It is not a big problem. > IETF is not the right forum for any vendor implementation discussion > regardless if this is Cisco, Juniper, Arrcus, Nokia etc .... I > recommend you move it to -nsp lists. What is -nsp list? I would like to tell you the following: in many IETF email lists I look at the distance between theory and implementation is too high. And, some people suggest to rather go to other implementation-specific lists, like lkml. But there, the traffic is too high to cope with. So one ends up with not discussing the issue at all. We dont want that either. > > I think it matters when a draft is reporting deployments, and there > are drafts that are justifying decisions based on apparent operator > deployment popularity rather than providing objective technical and > engineering justification. I agree. Alex > > The Internet Engineering Task Force shouldn't fall victim to any > logical fallacies. > > https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com > > > > > > > > > > If standards or drafts are not clear you are welcome to ask > questions on those. Any implementation is a private choice of given > vendor and in no way should influence WG decision in regards of the > choices we make in protocol design. > > If you think that some implementations violate standards or even WG > drafts you are more then welcome to propose specific questions to > the implementation reports which chairs would be normally more than > happy to include in the process and ask or even enforce all vendors > to fill the blanks. > > Regards, Robert. > > > On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 6:58 AM Andrew Alston > > wrote: > > Alex,____ > > __ __ > > Will try and get you some captures off the devices I’ve been testing > on – in order to make sure I understood this draft properly, and in > light of the deployment status draft, I decided to play a lot more > deeply and setup a bit of a lab. I’m still doing tests and soon as > I have some other bits completed will send through the packet > captures from those against (Since the XR boxes that I have to test > on seem to have absolutely no ability to setup traffic steering with > SRv6 (and I actually have requested details of how to configure this > in the past but gotten no response), I’m just finishing the code to > inject packets from outside with a sid stack to test this. I also > acknowledge that I’m running tests against code that is implementing > a draft that seems far from final – and so shouldn’t have that many > expectations.____ > > __ __ > > That being said, In light of the deployment draft – I do have some > concerns that there is a draft that specifies that people have put > this stuff into production – yet the implementation in current > shipping code seems to be **way** off the draft and contrary to > things we have been told in the working group.____ > > __ __ > > Some of the more interesting finds so far:____ > > __ __ > > * In Montreal – I questioned the growth in the IGP tables – since I > would have to use a separate locator on each router – I was > explicitly told this wasn’t necessary and could use the loopbacks – > not so in current code – use of the loopback marks the locator as > down.____ > > __ __ > > * Locator size is not configurable as anything other than a /64____ > > __ __ > > * XR 7.0.1 claims a maximum number of SID’s at 8000 – I’m still > unclear if this limitation in the code is based on locally > configured SID’s or received SID’s – and will run some tests on this > in the coming day or two to verify____ > > __ __ > > * There seems to be a limit on a single locator per box – I’m still > trying to figure out what impact this will have in a multi-area or > multi-level IGP deployment scenario.____ > > __ __ > > * By default when configuring a locator – the device configures a > separate End.X (PSP) for each interface – now – this is where things > get interesting. If I am reading the NP text correctly, End.X (PSP) > should be locator:0006:: - However, in the shipping code, that is > not the case at all – as per the below:____ > > __ __ > > /RP/0/RP0/CPU0:SRV6-R2#show segment-routing srv6 locator R2 sid Sun > Dec 15 04:56:10.913 UTC____/ > > /SID Behavior Context Owner > State RW____/ > > /-------------------------- ----------- > ------------------------------ ------------------ ----- --____/ > > /2001:db8:ee:2:1:: End (PSP) 'default':1 sidmgr > InUse Y____/ > > /2001:db8:ee:2:11:: End.OP 'default' sidmgr > InUse Y____/ > > /2001:db8:ee:2:40:: End.X (PSP) [Gi0/0/0/0, Link-Local] > isis-64 InUse Y____/ > > /2001:db8:ee:2:41:: End.X (PSP) [Gi0/0/0/1, Link-Local] > isis-64 InUse Y____/ > > /2001:db8:ee:2:42:: End.X (PSP) [Gi0/0/0/3, Link-Local] > isis-64 InUse Y____/ > > /__ __/ > > So from my perspective – I have to wonder about the production > deployments – because particularly on this last point – if people > have been putting this stuff in production, and the implementation > is so different from the text, its going to create some rather > interesting breakage going forward if my reading of the text is > correct.____ > > __ __ > > Anyway – will send some packet captures hopefully in the next 48 > hours once I’ve got a more complete set of captures from my lab > setup.____ > > __ __ > > Thanks____ > > __ __ > > Andrew____ > > __ __ > > __ __ > > *From:*spring > *On Behalf Of *Alexandre Petrescu > *Sent:* Monday, 16 December 2019 17:34 *To:* SPRING WG email list > > *Subject:* [spring] > packet captures for > draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-06?____ > > __ __ > > Hi, SPRINGers, > > My comments on SRv6 relate to a worry about modifying packets in > transit. > > In order to better explain myself, or maybe to remove the worry > altogether, I would like to ask for packet dumps of SRv6. > > By looking at the packet contents that go into the network it is much > easier to clarify and to avoid misunderstandings. > > Alex > > _______________________________________________ spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring____ > > _______________________________________________ spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > > _______________________________________________ spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > From nobody Wed Dec 18 08:37:07 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73FA41208FF for ; Wed, 18 Dec 2019 08:37:05 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.632 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.632 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id O7ghyI0edEsd for ; Wed, 18 Dec 2019 08:37:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from cirse-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (cirse-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr [132.167.192.148]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1769C1209EC for ; Wed, 18 Dec 2019 08:36:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by cirse-sys.extra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id xBIGCKNF028721; Wed, 18 Dec 2019 17:12:20 +0100 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id 14D0F208104; Wed, 18 Dec 2019 17:12:20 +0100 (CET) Received: from muguet1-smtp-out.intra.cea.fr (muguet1-smtp-out.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.12]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A87E208103; Wed, 18 Dec 2019 17:12:20 +0100 (CET) Received: from [10.8.35.150] (is154594.intra.cea.fr [10.8.35.150]) by muguet1-sys.intra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id xBIGCJCS006697; Wed, 18 Dec 2019 17:12:19 +0100 To: Andrew Alston References: Cc: SPRING WG email list From: Alexandre Petrescu Message-ID: <6f388b0d-9d66-5ce5-3419-965c3a9c3924@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2019 17:12:19 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Language: fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] packet captures for draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-06? X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2019 16:37:05 -0000 Andrew, Le 17/12/2019 à 06:57, Andrew Alston a écrit : > Alex, > > Will try and get you some captures off the devices I’ve been testing on > – in order to make sure I understood this draft properly, and in light > of the deployment status draft, I decided to play a lot more deeply and > setup a bit of a lab.  I’m still doing tests and soon as I have some > other bits completed will send through the packet captures from those > against (Since the XR boxes that I have to test on seem to have > absolutely no ability to setup traffic steering with SRv6 (and I > actually have requested details of how to configure this in the past but > gotten no response), I’m just finishing the code to inject packets from > outside with a sid stack to test this.  I also acknowledge that I’m > running tests against code that is implementing a draft that seems far > from final – and so shouldn’t have that many expectations. > > That being said, In light of the deployment draft – I do have some > concerns that there is a draft that specifies that people have put this > stuff into production – yet the implementation in current shipping code > seems to be **way** off the draft and contrary to things we have been > told in the working group. > > Some of the more interesting finds so far: > > * In Montreal – I questioned the growth in the IGP tables – since I > would have to use a separate locator on each router – I was > explicitly told this wasn’t necessary and could use the loopbacks – > not so in current code – use of the loopback marks the locator as down. > > * Locator size is not configurable as anything other than a /64 > > * XR 7.0.1 claims a maximum number of SID’s at 8000 – I’m still > unclear if this limitation in the code is based on locally > configured SID’s or received SID’s – and will run some tests on this > in the coming day or two to verify > > * There seems to be a limit on a single locator per box – I’m still > trying to figure out what impact this will have in a multi-area or > multi-level IGP deployment scenario. > > * By default when configuring a locator – the device configures a > separate End.X (PSP) for each interface – now – this is where things > get interesting.  If I am reading the NP text correctly, End.X (PSP) > should be locator:0006::  - However, in the shipping code, that is > not the case at all – as per the below: > > /RP/0/RP0/CPU0:SRV6-R2#show segment-routing srv6 locator R2 sid Sun Dec > 15 04:56:10.913 UTC/ > > /SID                         Behavior > Context                           Owner               State  RW/ > > /--------------------------  ----------- > ------------------------------    ------------------  -----  --/ > > /2001:db8:ee:2:1::           End (PSP) > 'default':1                       sidmgr              InUse  Y/ I would like to ask you whether that 2001:db8:ee:2:1:: could rather be 2001:db8:ee:ff:2:1::? It is important for the 64 limit. Alex [...] From nobody Wed Dec 18 08:40:50 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46141120A16 for ; Wed, 18 Dec 2019 08:40:48 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=proximus.com header.b=CKHsAARV; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=proximuscorp.onmicrosoft.com header.b=meDF35/D Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tG2n16bTagaf for ; Wed, 18 Dec 2019 08:40:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx26.belgacom.be (mx26.belgacom.be [213.181.45.236]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E87C9120A0A for ; 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boundary="_000_BN7PR05MB5699D85CC99CB23B1B573901AE530BN7PR05MB5699namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: bc5464ec-e5b5-45b3-1c29-08d783ddf6b0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 18 Dec 2019 17:16:04.4243 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: 6kuz5E01Y4TBr1V/9lm1grx5Bw4tZoX8XDK/iaYfYZFQXlLevl1RJC4jAQv/eb53ffMFUciV+X5ynUsvFdo8wg== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN7PR05MB6307 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.95,18.0.572 definitions=2019-12-18_05:2019-12-17,2019-12-18 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_spam_notspam policy=outbound_spam score=0 suspectscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 clxscore=1015 priorityscore=1501 lowpriorityscore=0 impostorscore=0 adultscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=739 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-1910280000 definitions=main-1912180139 Archived-At: Subject: [spring] 64-bit locators X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2019 17:16:14 -0000 --_000_BN7PR05MB5699D85CC99CB23B1B573901AE530BN7PR05MB5699namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Folks, I am warming to the idea of fix-length, 64-bit locators. Benefits follow: * There is no use-case for less specific (e.g., /56) locators * It would make the FUNC part of the address appear in a predictable lo= cation. This would facilitate ACLs that match on function. While you might save a IPv6 address space with more specific locators, the = savings might not be worth the administrative headache. In this case, we should probably change the document to reflect implemented= behavior. Ron Juniper Business Use Only --_000_BN7PR05MB5699D85CC99CB23B1B573901AE530BN7PR05MB5699namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Folks,

 

I am warming to the idea of fix-length, 64-bit locat= ors. Benefits follow:

 

  • There is no use-case for less specific (e.g., /56) locators
  • It would make the FUNC part of the address appear in a predicta= ble location. This would facilitate ACLs that match on function.=

 

While you might save a IPv6 address space with more = specific locators, the savings might not be worth the administrative headac= he.

 

In this case, we should probably change the document= to reflect implemented behavior.

 

         &nb= sp;            =             &nb= sp;            =             &nb= sp;           Ron

 


Juniper Business= Use Only

--_000_BN7PR05MB5699D85CC99CB23B1B573901AE530BN7PR05MB5699namp_-- From nobody Wed Dec 18 12:54:08 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80296120C79 for ; Wed, 18 Dec 2019 12:54:07 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LLnwE8-uSnTn for ; Wed, 18 Dec 2019 12:54:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from eu-smtp-delivery-182.mimecast.com (eu-smtp-delivery-182.mimecast.com [146.101.78.182]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1C3581209A1 for ; Wed, 18 Dec 2019 12:54:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from EUR02-HE1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-he1eur02lp2054.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.5.54]) (Using TLS) by relay.mimecast.com with ESMTP id uk-mtapsc-1-aMAmxstiMG-xm-cAprlBYQ-1; Wed, 18 Dec 2019 20:53:58 +0000 Received: from DBBPR03MB5415.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com (20.179.47.79) by DBBPR03MB5223.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com (20.179.47.142) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.2538.18; Wed, 18 Dec 2019 20:53:57 +0000 Received: from DBBPR03MB5415.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::f4ba:55b5:8f6c:5256]) by DBBPR03MB5415.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::f4ba:55b5:8f6c:5256%5]) with mapi id 15.20.2538.019; Wed, 18 Dec 2019 20:53:57 +0000 From: Andrew Alston To: Alexandre Petrescu CC: SPRING WG email list Thread-Topic: [spring] packet captures for draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-06? Thread-Index: AQHVtB30yUuQpd+rN06ZUFj620sk56e90UZAgAJCVoCAAID4gA== Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2019 20:53:56 +0000 Message-ID: <820561C3-E885-4ED9-9DF9-0E870793271F@liquidtelecom.com> References: <6f388b0d-9d66-5ce5-3419-965c3a9c3924@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <6f388b0d-9d66-5ce5-3419-965c3a9c3924@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-GB X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/10.20.0.191208 x-originating-ip: [2c0f:fe40:3:3:94a6:92e4:6816:d202] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-ht: Tenant x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: d2934c63-3f3a-4fd8-e4ad-08d783fc66a5 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: DBBPR03MB5223: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:8882; x-forefront-prvs: 0255DF69B9 x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(346002)(366004)(376002)(396003)(39860400002)(136003)(189003)(199004)(478600001)(8936002)(2906002)(6512007)(81166006)(316002)(4326008)(33656002)(86362001)(71200400001)(558084003)(186003)(8676002)(91956017)(6916009)(66446008)(2616005)(66946007)(64756008)(66556008)(66476007)(76116006)(6506007)(81156014)(6486002)(36756003)(5660300002); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:DBBPR03MB5223; H:DBBPR03MB5415.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:1; x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: w2a+NUmluikhvITSN1rzOuN8Gs4tlNzirph/jmsxxdeltv4/gukJzflaqDtVDSyGHBfYhi+vtRX1zhd93f3ynIcwFpnf0jCGjr4joFN/QkIuNTL5lWDJuyK5RmIwfI86L+BuloXyd9UwCnNuXzOzf1bFkbGNjqTakzak2jD4K5rzBRnX8ZX7dfsF9QyfNIK5pIcJMbehn+MH9PGU4n9h/qzrJ42/blxFYTxbqOBUfW7Lwk/yJGNlWqK0R9wrYiIYr6HLgT4c7m/N3TUPonkMHnkMpIv3bAWUnNNLktl0urt78P9GVkLlShkrwiH3UOvsqGhslsGLorj1a1oWJHlHSN6TXvE5O750GJpPBD5KpdGNMu0LFzKiOwOBspaP70Xr+ASs7fu9+aiToTc94adz/fmrRaRV8R2wcBdi5p264QW72arIQzTmBaGxovroSkul x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True Content-ID: <020156D58A5A4B4081C3BD65A6719AB7@eurprd03.prod.outlook.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: liquidtelecom.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: d2934c63-3f3a-4fd8-e4ad-08d783fc66a5 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 18 Dec 2019 20:53:57.1001 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 68792612-0f0e-46cb-b16a-fcb82fd80cb1 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: NpT3RRb/b5FOhLMjfSmALqSuZyj1nuLFIaLBSWkGXx3Cn5j6LL78Dc+J+y5xwB+xlYGm0E35YLC5OYO9K2NwRXULxX3JZHSEb3i3klcZ9Vw= X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DBBPR03MB5223 X-MC-Unique: aMAmxstiMG-xm-cAprlBYQ-1 X-Mimecast-Spam-Score: 0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] packet captures for draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-06? X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2019 20:54:07 -0000 ID4gICBJIHdvdWxkIGxpa2UgdG8gYXNrIHlvdSB3aGV0aGVyIHRoYXQNCj4gICAgMjAwMTpkYjg6 ZWU6MjoxOjoNCj4gICAgY291bGQgcmF0aGVyIGJlDQo+ICAgIDIwMDE6ZGI4OmVlOmZmOjI6MTo6 Pw0KICAgIA0KICBObyAtIHRoZSBsb2NhdG9yIGhhcyB0byBiZSBvbiBhIDY0Yml0IGJvdW5kYXJ5 IC0gaXQgcmVmdXNlcyBjb25maWd1cmF0aW9uIGZvciBhbnl0aGluZyBlbHNlIGluIHRoZSBjb2Rl IGJhc2VzIEkgaGF2ZSB0ZXN0ZWQgb24uDQoNClRoYW5rcw0KDQpBbmRyZXcNCg0KDQoNCg== From nobody Wed Dec 18 12:59:49 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D243120B1D for ; Wed, 18 Dec 2019 12:59:46 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id chvMo-l0rTlD for ; Wed, 18 Dec 2019 12:59:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from eu-smtp-delivery-182.mimecast.com (eu-smtp-delivery-182.mimecast.com [207.82.80.182]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 56F5D1208AA for ; Wed, 18 Dec 2019 12:59:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from EUR03-AM5-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-am5eur03lp2050.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.8.50]) (Using TLS) by relay.mimecast.com with ESMTP id uk-mta-182-DktUDsZjNdm_9rUnutAs2w-1; Wed, 18 Dec 2019 20:59:40 +0000 Received: from DBBPR03MB5415.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com (20.179.47.79) by DBBPR03MB5223.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com (20.179.47.142) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.2538.18; Wed, 18 Dec 2019 20:59:39 +0000 Received: from DBBPR03MB5415.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::f4ba:55b5:8f6c:5256]) by DBBPR03MB5415.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::f4ba:55b5:8f6c:5256%5]) with mapi id 15.20.2538.019; Wed, 18 Dec 2019 20:59:39 +0000 From: Andrew Alston To: Alexandre Petrescu CC: SPRING WG email list Thread-Topic: [spring] packet captures for draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-06? Thread-Index: AQHVtB30yUuQpd+rN06ZUFj620sk56e90UZAgAJCVoCAAIKPgA== Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2019 20:59:39 +0000 Message-ID: <6C666DCB-840B-4E18-99A4-081B6EDD7225@liquidtelecom.com> References: <6f388b0d-9d66-5ce5-3419-965c3a9c3924@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <6f388b0d-9d66-5ce5-3419-965c3a9c3924@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-GB X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/10.20.0.191208 x-originating-ip: [2c0f:fe40:3:3:94a6:92e4:6816:d202] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-ht: Tenant x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 4ea4be5d-f304-411e-b75c-08d783fd32aa x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: DBBPR03MB5223: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:9508; x-forefront-prvs: 0255DF69B9 x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(346002)(39840400004)(366004)(376002)(396003)(136003)(189003)(199004)(478600001)(8936002)(2906002)(6512007)(81166006)(316002)(4326008)(33656002)(86362001)(71200400001)(186003)(8676002)(91956017)(6916009)(66446008)(2616005)(66946007)(64756008)(66556008)(66476007)(76116006)(6506007)(81156014)(6486002)(36756003)(5660300002)(4744005); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:DBBPR03MB5223; H:DBBPR03MB5415.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:1; x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 69L5fNYWkp4gx/v3+sS7reqCwRahhWSHcZHOkXF8fm/oGGf/daCaBGC3yJ+6SuRapzI3txvFHbKycj+YKPHJOb/cFSM42mccVBgOgLS7/Obv52SnLqyZuKEYLDjcob4sKXRpHzU1V9zhdYw2sRv5JRM+mJI/L7ZgK75DWH+99KKA3uK2KkV6QqL3qvD7ho7coou4ORoaYAeuU7DI38uUozvB5nrtXcm3cj0czEd/wOf8cJAk2jf8O7jZUhNp7TtsCN9nv4M4ETXN6MGd9UXaTNs3c/ve6huAVKn9Z3bL+oZQuX4+HymbdcmB3R+H2VuvfxPBMyGWNaGWQSFmRFnePwX2dIchVUCv+cMMOkRnTGvD6dzIyrWsKPZLqjYWvStkrPiXhmrVt0/4ehfIR7Zb/t9NU5RxeK1Y5RNLNSUP1/6ycrHEQ42xz5c62DPqGWxT x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True Content-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: liquidtelecom.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 4ea4be5d-f304-411e-b75c-08d783fd32aa X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 18 Dec 2019 20:59:39.3199 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 68792612-0f0e-46cb-b16a-fcb82fd80cb1 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: zFkAlpwUBcCr0RLzfZdr7Dmw+CBSrvKu0XOlU3HAnBEeGthsw9iCHXkKYiJY0tYAX/qptzbWXAC4BVZk2gAdvfzFVGRuW2h8rkTbVUbniWw= X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DBBPR03MB5223 X-MC-Unique: DktUDsZjNdm_9rUnutAs2w-1 X-Mimecast-Spam-Score: 0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] packet captures for draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-06? X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2019 20:59:47 -0000 PiAgICA+IC9SUC8wL1JQMC9DUFUwOlNSVjYtUjIjc2hvdyBzZWdtZW50LXJvdXRpbmcgc3J2NiBs b2NhdG9yIFIyIHNpZCBTdW4gRGVjIA0KPiAgICA+IDE1IDA0OjU2OjEwLjkxMyBVVEMvDQo+ICAg ID4gDQo+ICAgID4gL1NJRCAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICBCZWhhdmlvciAgICAgDQo+ ICAgID4gQ29udGV4dCAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIE93bmVyICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgU3RhdGUgIFJXLw0KPiAgICA+IA0KPiAgICA+IC8tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LSAgLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0gIA0KPiAgICA+IC0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLSAg ICAtLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0gIC0tLS0tICAtLS8NCj4gICAgPiANCj4gICAgPiAvMjAwMTpk Yjg6ZWU6MjoxOjogICAgICAgICAgIEVuZCAoUFNQKSAgICANCj4gICAgPiAnZGVmYXVsdCc6MSAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgc2lkbWdyICAgICAgICAgICAgICBJblVzZSAgWS8NCiAgICAN Cj4gICAgSSB3b3VsZCBsaWtlIHRvIGFzayB5b3Ugd2hldGhlciB0aGF0DQo+ICAgIDIwMDE6ZGI4 OmVlOjI6MTo6DQo+ICAgIGNvdWxkIHJhdGhlciBiZQ0KPiAgICAyMDAxOmRiODplZTpmZjoyOjE6 Oj8NCiAgICANCiBKdXN0IHRvIGNsYXJpZnkgdG8geSBsYXN0IGVtYWlsIC0gaW4gdGhlIGFib3Zl IC0gMjAwMTpkYjg6ZWU6MiBpcyB0aGUgbG9jYXRvciAtIDEgc2VlbXMgdG8gYmUgYSBmdW5jdGlv biAtIHdoaWNoIEkgYWxzbyByZWFsaXplIGRvZXMgbm90IGFsaWduIGF0IGFsbCB3aXRoIHNlY3Rp b24gOS4yIG9mIHRoZSBkcmFmdCAtIGJ1dCBhbSBJIGNvcnJlY3QgaW4gdW5kZXJzdGFuZGluZyB5 b3UgYXJlIGFza2luZyBpZiB0aGUgbG9jYXRvciBjb3VsZCBiZSAyMDAxOmRiODplZTpmZjoyOjog LSB3aXRoIDEgYmVpbmcgdGhlIGZ1bmN0aW9uIC0gaW4gd2hpY2ggY2FzZSB0aGUgYW5zd2VyLCBh cyBwZXIgbXkgcHJldmlvdXMgZW1haWwsIGlzIG5vIC0gbm90IGluIHRoZSBjb2RlIGJhc2VzIEkg YW0gdGVzdGluZyBvbi4NCg0KVGhhbmtzDQoNCkFuZHJldw0KDQoNCg== From nobody Wed Dec 18 13:07:19 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73CCA1208AA; 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: b7a16b97-c230-4e61-8e74-08d783fe3fbf X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 18 Dec 2019 21:07:10.7616 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: VLnnS3z6vJla06RGFZY4KXEru+OFyF85J275t6Z+OpX35jKXjkqDargBht5TSHknQO2wEt4uPwUzKTO9NgKwDQ== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN7PR05MB5938 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.95,18.0.572 definitions=2019-12-18_07:2019-12-17,2019-12-18 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_spam_notspam policy=outbound_spam score=0 lowpriorityscore=0 suspectscore=0 priorityscore=1501 mlxscore=0 phishscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1015 bulkscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 malwarescore=0 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-1910280000 definitions=main-1912180162 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] 6man w.g. last call for X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2019 21:07:17 -0000 Ole, I have reviewed version-02 of this document and believe that it still has t= he following major issues: - Section 3.1.1 assumes implementation details (e.g., that the implementati= on has an OAM process) but fails to describe any externally observable beha= vior. The externally observable behaviors are described, incompletely, in S= ections 4.1.2 and 4.2.2. - Section 3.5 seems to be incomplete. What TLV are we talking about and wha= t role does it play? - Section 4 talks about future revisions of this document. Aren't we in WGL= C? - Section 4.1.2.1 - When the ping succeeds, what does the success message l= ook like? An ICMP Echo Response? What is the source address? A SID? - Section 4.1.2.2 - Does this work with PSP? - Section 4.2.2.1 - Do we need to examine flags even when SL =3D=3D 0? = Ron Juniper Business Use Only -----Original Message----- From: ipv6 On Behalf Of Ole Troan Sent: Wednesday, December 4, 2019 3:53 PM To: 6man WG ; SPRING WG Cc: 6man Chairs <6man-chairs@ietf.org> Subject: 6man w.g. last call for Hello, As agreed in the working group session in Singapore, this message starts = a new two week 6MAN Working Group Last Call on advancing: Title : Operations, Administration, and Maintenance (OAM) in Segment R= outing Networks with IPv6 Data plane (SRv6) Author : Z. Ali, C. Filsfils, S. Matsushima, D. Voyer, M. Chen Filename : draft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6-oam-02 Pages : 23 Date : 2019-11-20 =20 https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf= -6man-spring-srv6-oam/__;!8WoA6RjC81c!XSqnzjZKANP41cvNa8ybSjYCuTDO6XCHjQyZ4= ARNtx4MhYWG7vdEvXi-22No-zDm$=20 as a Proposed Standard. =20 Substantive comments and statements of support for publishing this document= should be directed to the mailing list. Editorial suggestions can be sent to the author. This last call will end on= the 18th of December 2019. To improve document quality and ensure that bugs are caught as early as pos= sible, we would require at least two reviewers to do a complete review of t= he document. Please let the chairs know if you are willing to be a reviewe= r. The last call will be forwarded to the spring working group, with discussio= n directed to the ipv6 list. Thanks, Bob & Ole, 6man co-chairs -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/m= ailman/listinfo/ipv6__;!8WoA6RjC81c!XSqnzjZKANP41cvNa8ybSjYCuTDO6XCHjQyZ4AR= Ntx4MhYWG7vdEvXi-2-1yR5ZL$ -------------------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Wed Dec 18 13:14:42 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0ADE11208A8 for ; Wed, 18 Dec 2019 13:14:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.632 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.632 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id k7Ausvj1Cqru for ; Wed, 18 Dec 2019 13:14:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from sainfoin-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (sainfoin-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr [132.167.192.228]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0E7F4120232 for ; Wed, 18 Dec 2019 13:14:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by sainfoin-sys.extra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id xBILEbZw045127 for ; Wed, 18 Dec 2019 22:14:37 +0100 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id 237A820823F for ; Wed, 18 Dec 2019 22:14:37 +0100 (CET) Received: from muguet2-smtp-out.intra.cea.fr (muguet2-smtp-out.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.13]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A4682080B0 for ; Wed, 18 Dec 2019 22:14:37 +0100 (CET) Received: from [10.11.240.32] ([10.11.240.32]) by muguet2-sys.intra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id xBILEWVJ014179 for ; Wed, 18 Dec 2019 22:14:34 +0100 To: spring@ietf.org References: From: Alexandre Petrescu Message-ID: <841ae01a-1840-c7ce-044a-a0f3b8df2c50@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2019 22:14:32 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Language: fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] 64-bit locators X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2019 21:14:41 -0000 Le 18/12/2019 à 18:16, Ron Bonica a écrit : > Folks, > > I am warming to the idea of fix-length, 64-bit locators. Benefits follow: > > * There is no use-case for less specific (e.g., /56) locators > * It would make the FUNC part of the address appear in a predictable > location. This would facilitate ACLs that match on function. I think it sounds as if one needs a locator. That locator must have a fixed length. I suggest that locator to be an IP address whose length is 128bit. Interpreting a part of an IP address as a locator (be that 65bit or other length) might lead to confusion between roles of locator and identifier. And, ACL matching is indeed better on fixed length keys, but I think it is even better on full addresses than on parts of addresses. Alex > > While you might save a IPv6 address space with more specific locators, > the savings might not be worth the administrative headache. > > In this case, we should probably change the document to reflect > implemented behavior. > >                                                                        Ron > > > Juniper Business Use Only > > > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > From nobody Wed Dec 18 13:17:56 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A524F120836 for ; Wed, 18 Dec 2019 13:17:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.632 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.632 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QLIBEjsSdRd4 for ; Wed, 18 Dec 2019 13:17:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from oxalide-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (oxalide-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr [132.168.224.13]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A618D120232 for ; Wed, 18 Dec 2019 13:17:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by oxalide-sys.extra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id xBILHolp019836; Wed, 18 Dec 2019 22:17:50 +0100 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id 6563A208175; Wed, 18 Dec 2019 22:17:50 +0100 (CET) Received: from muguet2-smtp-out.intra.cea.fr (muguet2-smtp-out.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.13]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57C022080BA; Wed, 18 Dec 2019 22:17:50 +0100 (CET) Received: from [10.11.240.32] ([10.11.240.32]) by muguet2-sys.intra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id xBILHmHJ015181; Wed, 18 Dec 2019 22:17:49 +0100 To: Andrew Alston Cc: SPRING WG email list References: <6f388b0d-9d66-5ce5-3419-965c3a9c3924@gmail.com> <820561C3-E885-4ED9-9DF9-0E870793271F@liquidtelecom.com> From: Alexandre Petrescu Message-ID: Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2019 22:17:48 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <820561C3-E885-4ED9-9DF9-0E870793271F@liquidtelecom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] packet captures for draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-06? X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2019 21:17:54 -0000 Le 18/12/2019 à 21:53, Andrew Alston a écrit : > > I would like to ask you whether that >> 2001:db8:ee:2:1:: >> could rather be >> 2001:db8:ee:ff:2:1::? > > No - the locator has to be on a 64bit boundary - it refuses configuration for anything else in the code bases I have tested on. Are the fixed-length locators aware of a similar distinction in IPv4 before CIDR existed? Does SRv6 appreciate class existence in IPv6? Alex > > Thanks > > Andrew > > > From nobody Wed Dec 18 13:27:54 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7051120236 for ; Wed, 18 Dec 2019 13:27:52 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.632 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.632 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id m3FApJq5RuwQ for ; Wed, 18 Dec 2019 13:27:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from sainfoin-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (sainfoin-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr [132.167.192.228]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7AFEA12001A for ; Wed, 18 Dec 2019 13:27:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by sainfoin-sys.extra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id xBILRnJ6047749; Wed, 18 Dec 2019 22:27:49 +0100 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id DA3CC208190; Wed, 18 Dec 2019 22:27:49 +0100 (CET) Received: from muguet2-smtp-out.intra.cea.fr (muguet2-smtp-out.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.13]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCA45208173; Wed, 18 Dec 2019 22:27:49 +0100 (CET) Received: from [10.11.240.32] ([10.11.240.32]) by muguet2-sys.intra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id xBILRlkY017140; Wed, 18 Dec 2019 22:27:47 +0100 To: Andrew Alston Cc: SPRING WG email list References: <6f388b0d-9d66-5ce5-3419-965c3a9c3924@gmail.com> <6C666DCB-840B-4E18-99A4-081B6EDD7225@liquidtelecom.com> From: Alexandre Petrescu Message-ID: <61fd6778-b5f1-01ef-fdbc-ee73026692c5@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2019 22:27:47 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <6C666DCB-840B-4E18-99A4-081B6EDD7225@liquidtelecom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] packet captures for draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-06? X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2019 21:27:53 -0000 Le 18/12/2019 à 21:59, Andrew Alston a écrit : >> > /RP/0/RP0/CPU0:SRV6-R2#show segment-routing srv6 locator R2 sid Sun Dec >> > 15 04:56:10.913 UTC/ >> > >> > /SID Behavior >> > Context Owner State RW/ >> > >> > /-------------------------- ----------- >> > ------------------------------ ------------------ ----- --/ >> > >> > /2001:db8:ee:2:1:: End (PSP) >> > 'default':1 sidmgr InUse Y/ > >> I would like to ask you whether that >> 2001:db8:ee:2:1:: >> could rather be >> 2001:db8:ee:ff:2:1::? > > Just to clarify to y last email - in the above - 2001:db8:ee:2 is the > locator - 1 seems to be a function - which I also realize does not > align at all with section 9.2 of the draft - but am I correct in > understanding you are asking if the locator could be > 2001:db8:ee:ff:2:: - with 1 being the function - in which case the > answer, as per my previous email, is no - not in the code bases I am > testing on. Thank you for the reply. If the locator can only be 64bit in length then I think it is wrong. But I am aware the more I say that the stronger and more numerous the RFCs using a fixed 64 are published :-) It is not what I want. So I stop saying it. Alex > > Thanks > > Andrew > > From nobody Wed Dec 18 13:28:26 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 496BA120236; Wed, 18 Dec 2019 13:28:20 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id g0JH7tYMSXb2; Wed, 18 Dec 2019 13:28:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from clarinet.employees.org (clarinet.employees.org [198.137.202.74]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 12F1612001A; Wed, 18 Dec 2019 13:28:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from astfgl.hanazo.no (unknown [IPv6:2a01:79d:53aa:d30:d8fa:3c9d:687b:162b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by clarinet.employees.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id F25044E14535; Wed, 18 Dec 2019 21:28:16 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [IPv6:::1] (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by astfgl.hanazo.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4789326C3A84; Wed, 18 Dec 2019 22:28:15 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.0 \(3601.0.10\)) From: otroan@employees.org In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2019 22:28:15 +0100 Cc: 6man WG , SPRING WG , 6man Chairs <6man-chairs@ietf.org> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: To: Ron Bonica X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3601.0.10) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] 6man w.g. last call for X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2019 21:28:20 -0000 Hi Ron, Thank you, the last call for this document will stay open until the = issues raised are closed. Currently we are awaiting a new revision from the authors. I expect a = few more rounds on this one. Best regards, Ole > On 18 Dec 2019, at 22:07, Ron Bonica wrote: >=20 > Ole, >=20 > I have reviewed version-02 of this document and believe that it still = has the following major issues: >=20 > - Section 3.1.1 assumes implementation details (e.g., that the = implementation has an OAM process) but fails to describe any externally = observable behavior. The externally observable behaviors are described, = incompletely, in Sections 4.1.2 and 4.2.2. >=20 > - Section 3.5 seems to be incomplete. What TLV are we talking about = and what role does it play? >=20 > - Section 4 talks about future revisions of this document. Aren't we = in WGLC? >=20 > - Section 4.1.2.1 - When the ping succeeds, what does the success = message look like? An ICMP Echo Response? What is the source address? A = SID? >=20 > - Section 4.1.2.2 - Does this work with PSP? >=20 > - Section 4.2.2.1 - Do we need to examine flags even when SL =3D=3D 0? >=20 > = Ron >=20 >=20 >=20 > Juniper Business Use Only >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: ipv6 On Behalf Of Ole Troan > Sent: Wednesday, December 4, 2019 3:53 PM > To: 6man WG ; SPRING WG > Cc: 6man Chairs <6man-chairs@ietf.org> > Subject: 6man w.g. last call for >=20 > Hello, >=20 > As agreed in the working group session in Singapore, this message = starts a new two week 6MAN Working Group Last Call on advancing: >=20 > Title : Operations, Administration, and Maintenance (OAM) in = Segment Routing Networks with IPv6 Data plane (SRv6) > Author : Z. Ali, C. Filsfils, S. Matsushima, D. Voyer, M. Chen > Filename : draft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6-oam-02 > Pages : 23 > Date : 2019-11-20 >=20 > = https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-6m= an-spring-srv6-oam/__;!8WoA6RjC81c!XSqnzjZKANP41cvNa8ybSjYCuTDO6XCHjQyZ4AR= Ntx4MhYWG7vdEvXi-22No-zDm$=20 >=20 > as a Proposed Standard. =20 >=20 > Substantive comments and statements of support for publishing this = document should be directed to the mailing list. > Editorial suggestions can be sent to the author. This last call will = end on the 18th of December 2019. >=20 > To improve document quality and ensure that bugs are caught as early = as possible, we would require at least two reviewers to do a complete = review of the document. Please let the chairs know if you are willing = to be a reviewer. >=20 > The last call will be forwarded to the spring working group, with = discussion directed to the ipv6 list. >=20 > Thanks, > Bob & Ole, 6man co-chairs >=20 >=20 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: = https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6__;!= 8WoA6RjC81c!XSqnzjZKANP41cvNa8ybSjYCuTDO6XCHjQyZ4ARNtx4MhYWG7vdEvXi-2-1yR5= ZL$ > -------------------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Wed Dec 18 15:14:14 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19BFB120A91 for ; Wed, 18 Dec 2019 15:14:13 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.498 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.498 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, FROM_LOCAL_NOVOWEL=0.5, HK_RANDOM_ENVFROM=0.001, HK_RANDOM_FROM=0.999, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id d5-ildp0K0Ou for ; Wed, 18 Dec 2019 15:14:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-oi1-x231.google.com (mail-oi1-x231.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::231]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F35CE120047 for ; Wed, 18 Dec 2019 15:14:11 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-oi1-x231.google.com with SMTP id x14so2104099oic.10 for ; Wed, 18 Dec 2019 15:14:11 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=iHKq59/GtrnBNKhYd7W/qpdWvdZ6jhPCD+58pv4bOXc=; b=k4O1Fz0iumvLotSmxeVEp0fHyq6DwJpZvQaXib26S87S9o8PWNPYQJ5DJiUeGeDmnB dpfI1Uo+mm/xtrLzAJjx5VDcuOqDUfwixBZCzihC8R62pg/3zDjH7SsZbPS8wyvmJkPv IzEM9M/bnE/YYEKhhfHFvIkvoc9WVRFzTgzq9INkFenU070mFGwoO9+LkfmxoetO2mcD L9MVM8U92hxtxpgc9rUkYLGnA8M2IeTePlsicu9vupHShgCgGmAMEJEtr6GUbA83dmn3 2CyhUvDzvIw+pxpVDu519oUw6lZ3MzmoJi+EWjaf0FnHZDLprV4rsd4Ga5NV/P8XhPHK 5HgA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=iHKq59/GtrnBNKhYd7W/qpdWvdZ6jhPCD+58pv4bOXc=; b=QuMMNPfsVniok8t9AEYEpWWStXW48CpMORtzcEAA2be76lv/rpEXWcNSPJc8hYQdN/ DDizur12ZyZaIjULd+0eMurA2f1A1cJzJHitNL42AtpgTxqhUcBhXh0lah4OoKL731mW Cp/TdJvvxB/8QfDgGuRl/5nMQYXFdgEuDaiRdKeK9ss3DEbT5GuBMf9NmEZqrvluURr6 hsLNoTEXL0z3Ofl1O9Av7q5jxIYu4KTMIJoVmEaqFfd2P9zX3FGMrjg/F6dmgqJVVcrt gMdXz4+3KoTzyAkelwKFR/WUdJWS5vEsoJd6mm+wWdXldONf0Xwf8fsPlwSYkh9dfVIE lkEw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUr/qa9x8S9weNJk8iqhCifgUmvrifebh70OVQXDbdod+LaGbqU Nxg6IvpNqLx9M/6PS77NaOyM5bpEIo8fGxyfK9cpUy0R X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyTototkJNi/ObKrB/hIBqTgN0fRiBsa6RMQ6sIU0I37Aqy3WhLwBeZg5o6EZB3h86YDhpuGlzDROlLfWdf77U= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6808:98d:: with SMTP id a13mr1655293oic.7.1576710851210; Wed, 18 Dec 2019 15:14:11 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Mark Smith Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2019 10:13:44 +1100 Message-ID: To: Ron Bonica Cc: SPRING WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000033347f059a029a90" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] 64-bit locators X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2019 23:14:13 -0000 --00000000000033347f059a029a90 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Thu, 19 Dec 2019, 04:16 Ron Bonica, wrote: > Folks, > > > > I am warming to the idea of fix-length, > I think fixed length or single size is always a good thing to aim for. RFC5505, although about host configuration, sums it up the benefits very well. "Anything that can be configured can be misconfigured. Section 3.8 of "Architectural Principles of the Internet" [RFC1958] states: "Avoid options and parameters whenever possible. Any options and parameters should be configured or negotiated dynamically rather than manually." 64-bit locators. Benefits follow: > > > > - There is no use-case for less specific (e.g., /56) locators > - It would make the FUNC part of the address appear in a predictable > location. This would facilitate ACLs that match on function. > > > > While you might save a IPv6 address space with more specific locators, the > savings might not be worth the administrative headache. > Agree. When people have a choice because they have a lot of address space such as in an RFC1918 addressed network, they'll commonly choose a single and simple fixed size e.g. universal IPv4 /24s for all links IPv4 for that reason. VLSM is fundamentally hard, Regards, Mark. > > > In this case, we should probably change the document to reflect > implemented behavior. > > > > Ron > > > > Juniper Business Use Only > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > --00000000000033347f059a029a90 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Thu, 19 Dec 2019, 04:16 Ron Bonica= , <rbonica=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org> w= rote:

Folks,

=C2=A0

I am warming to the idea of fix-length,


= I think fixed length or single size is always a good thing to aim for.

RFC5505, although about host= configuration, sums it up the benefits very well.
<= br>
"Anything that can be configured can be mis= configured.=C2=A0 Section 3.8 of
=C2=A0 =C2=A0"Architectural Prin= ciples of the Internet" [RFC1958] states: "Avoid
=C2=A0 =C2=A0= options and parameters whenever possible.=C2=A0 Any options and parameters<= br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0should be configured or negotiated dynamically rather than = manually."

64-bit locators. Benefi= ts follow:

=C2=A0

  • There is no use-case for less specific (e.g.,= /56) locators
  • It would mak= e the FUNC part of the address appear in a predictable location. This would= facilitate ACLs that match on function.

=C2=A0

While you might save a IPv6 address space with more = specific locators, the savings might not be worth the administrative headac= he.


Agree.

When people=C2=A0have a choice because they have a lot of address = space such as in an RFC1918 addressed network, they'll commonly choose = a single and simple fixed size e.g.=C2=A0 universal IPv4 /24s for all links= IPv4 for that reason. VLSM is fundamentally hard,=C2=A0

Regards,
Mark.
=C2=A0

=C2=A0

In this case, we should probably change the document= to reflect implemented behavior.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Ron=

=C2=A0


Juniper Business Use Only

_______________________________________________
spring mailing list
spring@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/ma= ilman/listinfo/spring
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Thu, 19 Dec 2019 00:01:16 +0000 From: "Zafar Ali (zali)" To: "Joel M. Halpern" , 6man WG , "SPRING WG" CC: "Zafar Ali (zali)" Thread-Topic: 6man w.g. last call for Thread-Index: AQHVquT4fiT0mGN0ekCReZDXMAlj3aeqgDOAgAGReoCAAFYZgIAABS0AgBPoSYA= Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2019 00:01:16 +0000 Message-ID: <8F662D6A-1720-4D31-AEB8-6A3F7E40E996@cisco.com> References: <15bc440b-1dbc-0930-137f-f016ca527c2c@joelhalpern.com> <8FAF234D-B5C9-42C7-B483-F57C4ECB349F@cisco.com> <6c3eabf3-410d-ecb6-324f-967544b29a30@joelhalpern.com> <95afdc48-b88a-ab1f-f51f-13193ba5dc1c@joelhalpern.com> In-Reply-To: <95afdc48-b88a-ab1f-f51f-13193ba5dc1c@joelhalpern.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/10.1f.0.191110 authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=zali@cisco.com; x-originating-ip: [2001:420:c0cc:1006::31] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 6b6ef8ed-7111-4517-1363-08d7841691d4 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: DM6PR11MB4395: 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6f4417ec-2d42-4c78-850e-6202df1fcf0f@Spark MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="5dfac0a3_226f5320_872b" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Different MSDs for different traffic types on the same headend. X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2019 00:13:32 -0000 --5dfac0a3_226f5320_872b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Pleasure, see inline /*somewhat philosophical ;-) Cheers, Jeff On Dec 17, 2019, 10:28 PM -0800, Gyan Mishra , w= rote: > > Thanks Jeff=21=21 > > Kind=C2=A0regards > > I have a personal Cisco VIRL server server which I just finished buildi= ng out the SP topology with two SP SR domains.=C2=A0 Cisco XRv supports S= Rv6 in 6.6.1 so I have loaded the latest image 7.0.1 so hopefully have al= l features.=C2=A0 Plan to get it all up and running tomorrow. > > Question- =C2=A0Since SR-MPLS uses an IPv4 data plane and since SRv6 us= es IPv6 data plane is it possible to run SRv6 as an overlay both SR-MPLS = and SRv6 together as two ships in the night.=C2=A0 Would save on having t= o go back and forth between simulations if they can both live together =C2= =A0so I can test both simultaneously. =5Bjeff=5D I=E2=80=99m not sure what you mean by overlay, just run ipv4+m= pls for SR-MPLS and ipv6 for SRv6, perhaps different interfaces rather th= an dual stack > > In-line questions follow up > > > On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 8:41 PM Jeff Tantsura wrote: > > > Gyan, > > > > > > I wrote this presentation =7E3 years ago, so the numbers are not ne= cessarily current. > > > > > > Please see inline, hope this helps you to better understand the tec= hnology behind the terminology. > > > Let me know if anything is unclear. > > > > > > Cheers, > > > Jeff > > > On Dec 17, 2019, 3:45 PM -0800, Gyan Mishra , wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Ketan > > > > > > > > Is this the artificial boundary below for SR-TE from the document= provided by Jeff. > > > > > > > > =C2=A0MSD supported by different HW/SW differs widely : > > > > =E2=80=93 Linux (kernel 4.10): 2 SID=E2=80=99s, some improvements= recently (as of 4.11) =E2=80=93 Low end off the shelf (merchant) silicon= , e.g. BCM Trident2: 3-5 SID=E2=80=99s =E2=80=93 High end off the shelf (= merchant) silicon, e.g BCM Jericho1 : 4-7 SID=E2=80=99s =E2=80=93 Vendor=E2= =80=99 silicon, e.g. Juniper=E2=80=99 Trio, Nokia=E2=80=99 =46P3: 4-10+ S= ID=E2=80=99s > > > > > > > > So if you are doing MPLS-TE w/o SR-TE policies reusing they MPLS = data plane the label stack is identical to MPLS just with different label= range for SRGB 16000-23999 for absolute or indexed label. > > > =5Bjeff=5DSRGB is either configurable or a static label range, it d= oesn=E2=80=99t have to be identical with SR domain, indexing provides the= abstraction (and there=E2=80=99s life outside of Cisco ;-)) > > > > Label stack for SR-MPLS is identical to MPLS with single topmost = label for label switching through the core and bottom of stack services l= abel for L3 vpn services. > > > =5Bjeff=5D NH in the VPN route is recursively resolved to a LSP (or= policy in modern lingo) that could have 1 or more SID=E2=80=99s associat= ed with it (). In MPLS case, without TE, would be the label/N-SID of the = egress PE, the SID stack would grow any time you need to use Adj-SID=E2=80= =99s to deviate from SPT. Specifically to SR, egress PE can also associat= e a particular path (color) with the route and signal to the ingress PE w= hat path to take in order to reach it (NH). > > > > =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =5Bgyan=5D So if you are running just SR-MPLS using SP=46= path and don=E2=80=99t deviate from that then with prefix/node SID which= I believe is like the egress PE ibgp NH loopback =46EC destination, that= you have a SID label binding for your LSP to build topmost reusing the M= PLS data plane.=C2=A0 In the case described there would be only 1 transpo= rt label.=C2=A0 Correct=3F =5Bjeff=5D yes, the only difference with LDP/RSVP would be the =E2=80=9Cg= lobally significant label=E2=80=9D (N-SID of egress PE), so there=E2=80=99= s no swap (there is but to the same value) > > > > You would only have an Adj-SID if you are doing SR-TE.=C2=A0 Correct=3F= =C2=A0 In that case if you had one Adj-SID in the middle of the path like= a loose explicit route object ERO, then would still be only 1 transport = label in the stack as if you were not doing SR-TE.=C2=A0 Or would it be 2= labels, not sure. =5Bjeff=5D if Adj-SID is locally significant (L flag not set) (default in= most implementation) is must be evaluated only by the node that it is lo= cal to, which should result in 2 label construct (N-SID,Adj-SID), there a= re ways to optimize but this is the idea. > > > > So let=E2=80=99s say If your SR-TE path deviated from the spf along 1= 0 hops, so then you would have 10 Adj-SIDs and so 10 labels in the stack.= =C2=A0 So this is where MSD and BGP-LS IGP extensions come into play to s= ignal back to the head end that the maximum SID depth has exceeded result= ing in an error.=C2=A0 At that point the > > SR-TE LSP would be broken and you would have to manually build policy= with less strict hops. =5Bjeff=5D depends on implementation, it could as well be 20. No, this is= other way around - (simplified version) BGP-LS distributes SR related da= ta to the PCE and then PCE computes a path that meets the constrains, MSD= being one of them, in other words - if PCE can=E2=80=99t compute a path = to a destination that meets the constrains, it will not be instantiated > > > > I guess If you were using PCEP centralized controller that would sign= al MSD exceeded but I think you would still be in a broken LSP state.=C2=A0= The pcep controller would have to be sitting next to the head end for th= e SR-TE policy for the LSP to fix automatically.=C2=A0 Is that correct=3F= =5Bjeff=5Dsee previous answer, if MSD (or any other) constrains can=E2=80= =99t be met, the path is not going to be instantiated PCEP is the protocol between PCE and PCC and has little to do with comput= ation logic, PCE could compute a path but use for example RESTCON=46 to c= ommunicate with the head-end > > > > So for SR-TE due to the MSD issues and SID depth asic limitations eve= n with the latest asic, you really have to deploy a pcep controller based= architecture near the head end with SR-MPLS if using SR-TE.=C2=A0 If you= are not using SR-TE then I believe there is really no benefit of going t= o SR-MPLS. =5Bjeff=5D you mean PCE controller. I disagree with you, reducing number = of protocols in the network is a great goal (reduces complexity and numbe= r of interactions between them). Look at RSVP - there are many people usi= ng it but a only little part of them is actually doing TE, most use it fo= r =46RR and tactical TE. To cite a great book ;-) - complexity doesn=E2=80=99t disappear, it moves= to different places. In SR we have significantly reduced amount of =C2=A0= state and complexity associated with maintaining it in the network, but i= t is still there, it has just moved to a controller. In RSVP for example,= you could do in-band =C2=A0BW reservations, in SR it is =E2=80=9Csoft=E2= =80=9D controller has to do it and then network gets configured. Multicas= t works in IP because there=E2=80=99s enough state to compute loop-free M= DT and so forth > > > > You agree. > > > > I guess you save on having to maintain ldp state on each node.=C2=A0 = Thats =C2=A0not a big deal or business justification to switch to SR-MPLS= as for operators =E2=80=9CMPLS=E2=80=9D is their bread & butter they are= use to so why change. =5Bjeff=5D No, I don=E2=80=99t agree - =C2=A0the value is not in removing= LDP state but reducing overall complexity, interactions between IGPs and= LDP are complex and error prone, over the time resulted in 100=E2=80=99s= of high severity bugs and broken networks (if you are old enough you sho= uld remember :)) > > > > I think the big benefit for both SR-MPLS and SRv6 is individual color= ing of vpn flows.=C2=A0 Cisco calls it per-VR=46 TE, but it=E2=80=99s ugl= y to configure and manage. =5Bjeff=5D well, complain to your account, building networking features i= s quite different from intuitive interfaces ;-) color is a piece of metad= ata associated with a route, on itself not directly related to SR, nothin= g prevents you of signaling a RSVP LSP or similar, there=E2=80=99s some w= ork on generalization of colored path advertisement which I find very val= uable (draft-chan-idr-bgp-lu2/ =C2=A0draft-szarecki-idr-bgp-lcu-traffic-s= teering) > > > > So SR-MPLS and SRv6 is the future solution for operators that need th= e per vpn coloring. =5Bjeff=5D different people have different requirements, our job here is = to build technology that is flexible enough to address them at scale whil= e manageable. > > > > Given the issues with SR-TE with SID depth asic limitations is it pos= sible to use traditional RSVP TE. =5Bjeff=5D I don=E2=80=99t think you are right, while limitations are the= re, there are solvable, by a better silicon (or trading off capacity for = functionality - looping/recycling packets), by a more clever computation,= by brining some of the state back (take a look at=C2=A0draft-chunduri-ls= r-isis-preferred-path-routing) > > > > I am going to try in my virl setup as that could be a good workaround= for SR-TE hardware limitations until the hardware is up to snuff to hand= le very long explicit paths. > > > > I believe their is a draft with teas in the works for IP TE to use rs= vp bandwidth signaling path and reserve messages with both SR-MPLS and SR= v6. =5Bjeff=5D good engineering is always a right balance of trade-offs, extr= emities on either side (no state/all the state in a packet) (Open=46low i= s a great example) are rigid and won=E2=80=99t survive when deployed at s= cale. > > > > > > > > > > =46or clarity on nomenclature below please comment: > > > > > > > > Transport label - This is the SID label stack insertion at the in= gress PE head end to the SR-MPLS domain performing SR-TE.=C2=A0 Each hop = along the way hop the top SID label is popped until SL=3D=3D0 at which ti= me PHP default or UHP explicit null =E2=80=9Cpipe mode=E2=80=9D is perfor= med. (Similar to topmost in MPLS label switch world but now its a stack o= f labels =C2=A0instead of a single label) > > > =5Bjeff=5D There=E2=80=99s no SL field in MPLS header, there=E2=80=99= s however BoS bit that should be set on the most bottom label (in this ca= se - VPN label), PHP is explicitly signaled by the egress PE (P/NP-flag i= n Prefix-SID) > > > > > > > > Once you get past the transport label now you are on common groun= d with M-BGP overlay services > > > > > > > > Services label- L3 vpn service SID signaled. > > > > So with the service label that is signaled from ingress to egress= PE for service.=C2=A0 Is this a single label like traditional L3 vpn agg= regate label or more then one or many labels. > > > =5Bjeff=5D there=E2=80=99s no differences with any other VPNover=46= oo, service labels are signaled in exactly same way independently of the = transport and are locally significant (that=E2=80=99s why LxVPN=E2=80=99s= are such a great technology) > > > > > > > > The services label my guess should be fixed and not have any vend= or specific boundary constraints. > > > =5Bjeff=5D they are locally significant, in any implementation - la= bel blocks are associated with particular functions and programmed in HW,= so the service label would come out of the service range, which is signi= ficant to the device advertising it. > > > In modern OS=E2=80=99s the ranges are configurable, in older ones, = it is static and there=E2=80=99s usually a header file that looks like: > > > =23define MPLS=5FL3VPN=5FMIN=5FLABEL =C2=A00x40000 > > > =23define MPLS=5FL3VPN=5FMAX=5FLABEL 0x85=46=46=46 > > > > > > > > > > Gyan > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 7:21 AM Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) wrote: > > > > > > Hi Nat, > > > > > > > > > > > > The MSD framework enables us to define more/new MSD types. If= there is a real use-case and requirement (as you express) and the necess= ary MSD type(s) can be formally defined then perhaps the WG can evaluate = it. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Ketan > > > > > > > > > > > > =46rom: spring On Behalf Of Nat K= ao > > > > > > Sent: 17 December 2019 17:16 > > > > > > To: Robert Raszuk > > > > > > Cc: SPRING WG ; Nat Kao > > > > > > Subject: Re: =5Bspring=5D Different MSDs for different traffi= c types on the same headend. > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello, Robert. > > > > > > Surely the current BMI-MSD definition is sufficient for platf= orms without artificial boundaries. > > > > > > In this ideal case, maximum labels available for SR-TE policy= can be inferred from BMI-MSD and VPN routes. > > > > > > > > > > > > However we have 3 different artificial boundaries across 3 di= fferent platforms now. > > > > > > Hardcoding these boundaries might not scale well. (Especially= different OS versions may behave differently.) > > > > > > A standard mechanism to discover this boundary would greatly = help constructing SR-TE policy candidate paths. > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Nat. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 5:58 PM Robert Raszuk wrote: > > > > > > > Hi Nat, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am having a bit of difficulty understanding reasoning and= the way you are separating transport from service labels. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The processing label limit usually comes from data plane ca= pabilities=C2=A0of the platform namely L=46IB or hardware below. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Such layer is function agnostic and it does not matter what= role the label serves. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Label lookup results in pointer to a adj. rewrite on the ou= tbound side. It really does not matter if the adjacent=C2=A0peer is your = P router, segment endpoint=C2=A0or CE. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Of course there are number of processing exceptions - for e= xample concept of aggregate VPN label, additional header modifications et= c ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Likely some platforms put such artificial=C2=A0boundary bet= ween transport=C2=A0and service hence your request. But if so IMHO this i= s more of an issue=C2=A0with specific platform or its marketing message t= hen IET=46 :). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Many thx, > > > > > > > R. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 6:06 AM Nat Kao wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi, Jeff. > > > > > > > > Consider a headend that can perform 1 of the following 2 = modes(but not both): > > > > > > > > 1) Plain IPv4: 6 transport labels + 0 service label =3D> = traffic can be steered into a 6-label SR-TE policy. > > > > > > > > 2) Any type of VPN: 3 transport labels + 1=7E3 service la= bels =3D> traffic cannot be steered into a 6-label SR-TE policy. > > > > > > > > a) As defined in R=46C8491, the BMI-MSD is 6 for this hea= dend. Do we have a standardized way to signal the transport label depth i= n mode 2=3F > > > > > > > > =C2=A0=C2=A0 Maybe in a different MSD type=3F > > > > > > > > b) Since plain IPv4 and VPN routes can be steered into th= e same SR-TE policy, do we have a standardized headend behavior in this s= ituation=3F > > > > > > > > =C2=A0=C2=A0 (Should I open a new thread to discuss this=3F= It seems not quite MSD-relative.) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks... > > > > > > > > Nat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 7:19 AM Jeff Tantsura wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Gyan, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > MSD is only relevant for a device that either imposes= the label stack (head-end) or manipulates it (BSID anchor). There are so= me other constrains when it comes to entropy labels and ERLD, please read= the respective drafts. > > > > > > > > > > In general, SID stack would grow when TE is in use (a= ny time you need to use additional SID to deviate from SPT), another case= is when additional SID=E2=80=99s are used for services on the nodes, oth= er than the tail-end. > > > > > > > > > > That=E2=80=99s why we've designed MSD to be very flex= ible to accommodate all the different use cases, it is upto computational= logic to decide how to deal with different constrains (MSD types) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > > > > > Jeff > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > P.S. you might want to see the NANOG MSD presentation= I did some time ago. > > > > > > > > > > https://pc.nanog.org/static/published/meetings/NANOG7= 1/1424/20171004=5FTantsura=5FThe=5FCritical=5FRole=5Fv1.pdf > > > > > > > > > > On Dec 14, 2019, 11:59 PM -0800, Gyan Mishra , wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jeff > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With SR-MPLS with SR-TR let=E2=80=99s say if you us= e cSP=46 snd don=E2=80=99t have an ERO strict explicit path defined or is= a loose path, then the for the cSP=46 would the transport labels be 1.=C2= =A0 =46or loose would also be 1 also.=C2=A0 If the path were explicit def= ined to egress PE and was 7 hops from ingress to egress then transport wo= uld be 6.=C2=A0 And if L3 vpn service sid was signaled that would be 1 vp= n label. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let me know if I have that right. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In Nats scenario for IPv6 he has 3 vpnv6 labels. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why is that=3F > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With both SR-MPLS and SRv6 the L3 vpn A=46I/SA=46I = MBGP services overlay single label sits on top off SR as if does today wi= th MPLS so why 3 vpn labels. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So with this draft with BGP-LS and BMI-MSD you can = flood into the IGP the SID depth so all the nodes along the SR-TE path do= n=E2=80=99t go over the maximum which would result in an error. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you set your MTU high enough in the core like 92= 16, does that overcome the SID depth issues with SR-TE=3F > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Warm=C2=A0regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Gyan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Dec 14, 2019 at 2:43 AM Nat Kao wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, Jeff. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for the BMI-MSD reference. If I understand= correctly: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > BMI-MSD =3D Transport Label Depth + Service Label= Depth > > > > > > > > > > > > Only former can be utilized by SR-TE policies. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Currently do we have any method to determine the = composition of BMI=3F > > > > > > > > > > > > We need to know the transport label depth when do= ing service route per-destination steering. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This problem arises when trying to steer a plain = IPv4 route and a VPN service route into the same SR-TE policy that exceed= s the transport label depth of the service route. I'm trying to figure ou= t the standard behavior in this case since the headend we use currently p= roduces some interesting results. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > Nat. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Dec 14, 2019 at 2:42 AM Jeff Tantsura wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Nat, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please read=C2=A0https://tools.ietf.org/html/rf= c8491=23section-5 > > > > > > > > > > > > > Currently defined MSD types are: > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1: BMI > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2: ERLD > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Specifically to BMI: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Base MPLS Imposition MSD (BMI-MSD) signals the = total number of MPLS=C2=A0labels that can be imposed, including all servi= ce/transport/special=C2=A0labels. > > > > > > > > > > > > > The answer to your question is 6 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jeff > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Dec 13, 2019, 3:42 AM -0800, Nat Kao , wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello, SPRING WG. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How do we deal with an SR-TE policy headend w= ith different MSDs for different types of traffic=3F > > > > > > > > > > > > > > =46or example, a headend H can impose: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6 transport labels for plain IPv4 packets; > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5 transport labels + 1 IPv6 ExpNull label for= plain IPv6 packets; > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3 transport labels=C2=A0+ 3 VPN=C2=A0 labels = for VPN packets. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > a) =46or a plain IPv4 route R4 and a VPN rout= e Rv both steered into the SR-TE policy P1 with SID list , what will H perform in this situation=3F > > > > > > > > > > > > > > b) What is the MSD of H=3F 6, 5 or 3=3F > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nat. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F > > > > > > > > > > > > > > spring mailing list > > > > > > > > > > > > > > spring=40ietf.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > > > > > > > > > > > > =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F > > > > > > > > > > > > spring mailing list > > > > > > > > > > > > spring=40ietf.org > > > > > > > > > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > Gyan S. Mishra > > > > > > > > > > > IT Network Engineering & Technology > > > > > > > > > > > Verizon Communications=C2=A0Inc. (VZ) > > > > > > > > > > > 13101 Columbia Pike =46DC1 3rd =46loor > > > > > > > > > > > Silver Spring, MD 20904 > > > > > > > > > > > United States > > > > > > > > > > > Phone:=C2=A0301 502-1347 > > > > > > > > > > > Email:=C2=A0gyan.s.mishra=40verizon.com > > > > > > > > > > > www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies-consult= ant > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F > > > > > > > > spring mailing list > > > > > > > > spring=40ietf.org > > > > > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > > > > > > =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F > > > > > > spring mailing list > > > > > > spring=40ietf.org > > > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > > > > -- > > > > Gyan S. Mishra > > > > IT Network Engineering & Technology > > > > Verizon Communications=C2=A0Inc. (VZ) > > > > 13101 Columbia Pike =46DC1 3rd =46loor > > > > Silver Spring, MD 20904 > > > > United States > > > > Phone:=C2=A0301 502-1347 > > > > Email:=C2=A0gyan.s.mishra=40verizon.com > > > > www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies-consultant > > > > > > > > =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= > > > > spring mailing list > > > > spring=40ietf.org > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > -- > Gyan S. Mishra > IT Network Engineering & Technology > Verizon Communications=C2=A0Inc. (VZ) > 13101 Columbia Pike =46DC1 3rd =46loor > Silver Spring, MD 20904 > United States > Phone:=C2=A0301 502-1347 > Email:=C2=A0gyan.s.mishra=40verizon.com > www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies-consultant > --5dfac0a3_226f5320_872b Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline
Pleasure, see inline
/*somewhat philosophical ;-)

Cheers,
Jeff
On Dec 17, 2019, 10:28 PM -0800, Gy= an Mishra <hayabusagsm=40gmail.com>, wrote:

Thanks Jeff=21=21

Kind&=23160;regards

I have a personal Cisco VIRL server server which I = just finished building out the SP topology with two SP SR domains.&=23160= ; Cisco XRv supports SRv6 in 6.6.1 so I have loaded the latest image 7.0.= 1 so hopefully have all features.&=23160; Plan to get it all up and runni= ng tomorrow.

Question- &=23160;Since SR-MPLS uses an IPv4 data p= lane and since SRv6 uses IPv6 data plane is it possible to run SRv6 as an= overlay both SR-MPLS and SRv6 together as two ships in the night.&=23160= ; Would save on having to go back and forth between simulations if they c= an both live together &=23160;so I can test both simultaneously.&=23160;<= /div>
=5Bjeff=5D I=E2=80=99m not sure what you mean by overlay, just run i= pv4+mpls for SR-MPLS and ipv6 for SRv6, perhaps different interfaces rath= er than dual stack

In-line questions follow up

On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 8= :41 PM Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf=40gmail.com> wrote:
Gyan,

I wrote this presentation =7E3 years ago, so the nu= mbers are not necessarily current.

Please see inline, hope this helps you to better un= derstand the technology behind the terminology.
Let me know if anything is unclear.

Cheers,
Jeff
On Dec 17, 2019, 3:45 PM -0800, Gya= n Mishra <hayabusagsm=40gmail.com>, wrote:

Hi Ketan&=23160;

Is this the artificial boundary below for SR-TE fro= m the document provided by Jeff.

&=23160;MSD supported by different HW/SW differs wi= dely :
=E2=80=93 Linux (kernel 4.10): 2 SID=E2=80=99s, som= e improvements recently (as of 4.11) =E2=80=93 Low end off the shelf (mer= chant) silicon, e.g. BCM Trident2: 3-5 SID=E2=80=99s =E2=80=93 High end o= ff the shelf (merchant) silicon, e.g BCM Jericho1 : 4-7 SID=E2=80=99s =E2= =80=93 Vendor=E2=80=99 silicon, e.g. Juniper=E2=80=99 Trio, Nokia=E2=80=99= =46P3: 4-10+ SID=E2=80=99s

So if you are doing MPLS-TE w/o SR-TE policies reus= ing they MPLS data plane the label stack is identical to MPLS just with d= ifferent label range for SRGB 16000-23999 for absolute or indexed label.&= =23160;
=5Bjeff=5DSRGB is either configurable or a static label range, it do= esn=E2=80=99t have to be identical with SR domain, indexing provides the = abstraction (and there=E2=80=99s life outside of Cisco ;-))&=23160;
=
Label stack for SR-MPLS is identical to MPLS with s= ingle topmost label for label switching through the core and bottom of st= ack services label for L3 vpn services.&=23160;
=5Bjeff=5D NH in the VPN route is recursively resolved to a LSP (or = policy in modern lingo) that could have 1 or more SID=E2=80=99s associate= d with it (). In MPLS case, without TE, would be the label/N-SID of the e= gress PE, the SID stack would grow any time you need to use Adj-SID=E2=80= =99s to deviate from SPT. Specifically to SR, egress PE can also associat= e a particular path (color) with the route and signal to the ingress PE w= hat path to take in order to reach it (NH).

&=23160; &=23160; =5Bgyan=5D So if you are running = just SR-MPLS using SP=46 path and don=E2=80=99t deviate from that then wi= th prefix/node SID which I believe is like the egress PE ibgp NH loopback= =46EC destination, that you have a SID label binding for your LSP to bui= ld topmost reusing the MPLS data plane.&=23160; In the case described the= re would be only 1 transport label.&=23160; Correct=3F&=23160;
=5Bjeff=5D yes, the only difference with LDP/RSVP would be the =E2=80= =9Cglobally significant label=E2=80=9D (N-SID of egress PE), so there=E2=80= =99s no swap (there is but to the same value)

You would only have an Adj-SID if you are doing SR-= TE.&=23160; Correct=3F&=23160; In that case if you had one Adj-SID in the= middle of the path like a loose explicit route object ERO, then would st= ill be only 1 transport label in the stack as if you were not doing SR-TE= .&=23160; Or would it be 2 labels, not sure.&=23160;
=5Bjeff=5D if Adj-SID is locally significant (L flag not set) (defau= lt in most implementation) is must be evaluated only by the node that it = is local to, which should result in 2 label construct (N-SID,Adj-SID), th= ere are ways to optimize but this is the idea.

So let=E2=80=99s say If your SR-TE path deviated fr= om the spf along 10 hops, so then you would have 10 Adj-SIDs and so 10 la= bels in the stack.&=23160; So this is where MSD and BGP-LS IGP extensions= come into play to signal back to the head end that the maximum SID depth= has exceeded resulting in an error.&=23160; At that point the&=23160;
SR-TE LSP would be broken and you would have to man= ually build policy with less strict hops. &=23160;&=23160;
=5Bjeff=5D depends on implementation, it could as well be 20. No, th= is is other way around - (simplified version) BGP-LS distributes SR relat= ed data to the PCE and then PCE computes a path that meets the constrains= , MSD being one of them, in other words - if PCE can=E2=80=99t compute a = path to a destination that meets the constrains, it will not be instantia= ted&=23160;

I guess If you were using PCEP centralized controll= er that would signal MSD exceeded but I think you would still be in a bro= ken LSP state.&=23160; The pcep controller would have to be sitting next = to the head end for the SR-TE policy for the LSP to fix automatically.&=23= 160; Is that correct=3F&=23160;
=5Bjeff=5Dsee previous answer, if MSD (or any other) constrains can=E2= =80=99t be met, the path is not going to be instantiated
PCEP is the protocol between PCE and PCC and has li= ttle to do with computation logic, PCE could compute a path but use for e= xample RESTCON=46 to communicate with the head-end

So for SR-TE due to the MSD issues and SID depth as= ic limitations even with the latest asic, you really have to deploy a pce= p controller based architecture near the head end with SR-MPLS if using S= R-TE.&=23160; If you are not using SR-TE then I believe there is really n= o benefit of going to SR-MPLS. &=23160;&=23160;
=5Bjeff=5D you mean PCE controller. I disagree with you, reducing nu= mber of protocols in the network is a great goal (reduces complexity and = number of interactions between them). Look at RSVP - there are many peopl= e using it but a only little part of them is actually doing TE, most use = it for =46RR and tactical TE.
To cite a great book ;-) - complexity doesn=E2=80=99= t disappear, it moves to different places. In SR we have significantly re= duced amount of &=23160;state and complexity associated with maintaining = it in the network, but it is still there, it has just moved to a controll= er. In RSVP for example, you could do in-band &=23160;BW reservations, in= SR it is =E2=80=9Csoft=E2=80=9D controller has to do it and then network= gets configured. Multicast works in IP because there=E2=80=99s enough st= ate to compute loop-free MDT and so forth

You agree. &=23160;

I guess you save on having to maintain ldp state on= each node.&=23160; Thats &=23160;not a big deal or business justificatio= n to switch to SR-MPLS as for operators =E2=80=9CMPLS=E2=80=9D is their b= read & butter they are use to so why change. &=23160;&=23160;
=5Bjeff=5D No, I don=E2=80=99t agree - &=23160;the value is not in r= emoving LDP state but reducing overall complexity, interactions between I= GPs and LDP are complex and error prone, over the time resulted in 100=E2= =80=99s of high severity bugs and broken networks (if you are old enough = you should remember :))&=23160;

I think the big benefit for both SR-MPLS and SRv6 i= s individual coloring of vpn flows.&=23160; Cisco calls it per-VR=46 TE, = but it=E2=80=99s ugly to configure and manage. &=23160;&=23160;
=5Bjeff=5D well, complain to your account, building networking featu= res is quite different from intuitive interfaces ;-) color is a piece of = metadata associated with a route, on itself not directly related to SR, n= othing prevents you of signaling a RSVP LSP or similar, there=E2=80=99s s= ome work on generalization of colored path advertisement which I find ver= y valuable (draft-chan-idr-bgp-lu2/ &=23160;draft-szarecki-idr-bgp-lcu-tr= affic-steering)&=23160;

So SR-MPLS and SRv6 is the future solution for oper= ators that need the per vpn coloring.&=23160;
=5Bjeff=5D different people have different requirements, our job her= e is to build technology that is flexible enough to address them at scale= while manageable.&=23160;

Given the issues with SR-TE with SID depth asic lim= itations is it possible to use traditional RSVP TE.&=23160;
=5Bjeff=5D I don=E2=80=99t think you are right, while limitations ar= e there, there are solvable, by a better silicon (or trading off capacity= for functionality - looping/recycling packets), by a more clever computa= tion, by brining some of the state back (take a look at&=23160;draft-chun= duri-lsr-isis-preferred-path-routing)

I am going to try in my virl setup as that could be= a good workaround for SR-TE hardware limitations until the hardware is u= p to snuff to handle very long explicit paths.

I believe their is a draft with teas in the works f= or IP TE to use rsvp bandwidth signaling path and reserve messages with b= oth SR-MPLS and SRv6.&=23160;
=5Bjeff=5D good engineering is always a right balance of trade-offs,= extremities on either side (no state/all the state in a packet) (Open=46= low is a great example) are rigid and won=E2=80=99t survive when deployed= at scale.


=46or clarity on nomenclature below please comment:=

Transport label - This is the SID label stack inser= tion at the ingress PE head end to the SR-MPLS domain performing SR-TE.&=23= 160; Each hop along the way hop the top SID label is popped until SL=3D=3D= 0 at which time PHP default or UHP explicit null =E2=80=9Cpipe mode=E2=80= =9D is performed. (Similar to topmost in MPLS label switch world but now = its a stack of labels &=23160;instead of a single label)&=23160;
=5Bjeff=5D There=E2=80=99s no SL field in MPLS header, there=E2=80=99= s however BoS bit that should be set on the most bottom label (in this ca= se - VPN label), PHP is explicitly signaled by the egress PE (P/NP-flag i= n Prefix-SID)

Once you get past the transport label now you are o= n common ground with M-BGP overlay services

Services label- L3 vpn service SID signaled.
So with the service label that is signaled from ing= ress to egress PE for service.&=23160; Is this a single label like tradit= ional L3 vpn aggregate label or more then one or many labels.&=23160;
=5Bjeff=5D there=E2=80=99s no differences with any other VPNover=46o= o, service labels are signaled in exactly same way independently of the t= ransport and are locally significant (that=E2=80=99s why LxVPN=E2=80=99s = are such a great technology) &=23160;

The services label my guess should be fixed and not= have any vendor specific boundary constraints.&=23160;
=5Bjeff=5D they are locally significant, in any implementation - lab= el blocks are associated with particular functions and programmed in HW, = so the service label would come out of the service range, which is signif= icant to the device advertising it.
In modern OS=E2=80=99s the ranges are configurable,= in older ones, it is static and there=E2=80=99s usually a header file th= at looks like:
=23define MPLS=5FL3VPN=5FMIN=5FLABEL &=23160;0x4000= 0
=23define MPLS=5FL3VPN=5FMAX=5FLABEL 0x85=46=46=46<= /div>


Gyan

On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 7= :21 AM Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant=40cisco.com> wrote:

Hi Nat,

&=23160;

The MSD framework enables us to define m= ore/new MSD types. If there is a real use-case and requirement (as you ex= press) and the necessary MSD type(s) can be formally defined then perhaps= the WG can evaluate it.

&=23160;

Thanks,

Ketan

&=23160;

=46rom: s= pring <spring-bounces=40ietf.org> On Behalf Of Nat Kao Sent: 17 December 2019 17:16
To: Robert Raszuk <robert=40raszuk.net>
Cc: SPRING WG <spring=40ietf.org>; Nat Kao <lekao=40pyxisworks.org= >
Subject: Re: =5Bspring=5D Different MSDs for different traffic typ= es on the same headend.

&=23160;

Hello, Robe= rt.

Surely the current BMI-MSD definition is suffi= cient for platforms without artificial boundaries.

In this ideal case, maximum labels available f= or SR-TE policy can be inferred from BMI-MSD and VPN routes.


However we have 3 different artificial boundaries across 3 different plat= forms now.

Hardcoding these boundaries might not scale we= ll. (Especially different OS versions may behave differently.)<= /u>

A standard mechanism to discover this boundary= would greatly help constructing SR-TE policy candidate paths.<= /u>

&=23160;

Regards,

Nat.

&=23160;

&=23160;

On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 5:58 PM Robert Raszuk = <ro= bert=40raszuk.net> wrote:

Hi Nat,

&=23160;

I am having a bit of difficulty understanding = reasoning and the way you are separating transport from service labels.&=23= 160;

&=23160;

The processing label limit usually comes from = data plane capabilities&=23160;of the platform namely L=46IB or hardware = below.&=23160;

&=23160;

Such layer is function agnostic and it does no= t matter what role the label serves.&=23160;

&=23160;

Label lookup results in pointer to a adj. rewr= ite on the outbound side. It really does not matter if the adjacent&=2316= 0;peer is your P router, segment endpoint&=23160;or CE.&=23160;=

&=23160;

Of course there are number of processing excep= tions - for example concept of aggregate VPN label, additional header mod= ifications etc ...&=23160;

&=23160;

Likely some platforms put such artificial&=231= 60;boundary between transport&=23160;and service hence your request. But = if so IMHO this is more of an issue&=23160;with specific platform or its = marketing message then IET=46 :).&=23160;

&=23160;

Many thx,
R.

&=23160;

&=23160;

&=23160;

&=23160;

&=23160;

&=23160;

&=23160;

On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 6:06 AM Nat Kao <lekao= =40pyxisworks.org> wrote:

Hi, Jeff.

Consider a headend that can perform 1 of the f= ollowing 2 modes(but not both):

1) Plain IPv4: 6 transport labels + 0 service = label =3D> traffic can be steered into a 6-label SR-TE policy.<= u>

2) Any type= of VPN: 3 transport labels + 1=7E3 service labels =3D> traffic cannot= be steered into a 6-label SR-TE policy.

a) As defined in R=46C8491, the BMI-MSD is 6 f= or this headend. Do we have a standardized way to signal the transport la= bel depth in mode 2=3F

&=23160;&=23160; Maybe in a different MSD type= =3F

b) Since plain IPv4 and VPN routes can be stee= red into the same SR-TE policy, do we have a standardized headend behavio= r in this situation=3F

&=23160;&=23160; (Should I open a new thread t= o discuss this=3F It seems not quite MSD-relative.)

&=23160;

Thanks...

Nat=

&=23160;

On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 7:19 AM Jeff Tantsura = <jefftant.ietf=40gmail.com> wrote:

Gyan,

&=23160;

MSD is only relevant for a device that either = imposes the label stack (head-end) or manipulates it (BSID anchor). There= are some other constrains when it comes to entropy labels and ERLD, plea= se read the respective drafts.

In general, SID stack would grow when TE is in= use (any time you need to use additional SID to deviate from SPT), anoth= er case is when additional SID=E2=80=99s are used for services on the nod= es, other than the tail-end.

That=E2=80=99s why we've designed MSD to be ve= ry flexible to accommodate all the different use cases, it is upto comput= ational logic to decide how to deal with different constrains (MSD types)= &=23160;

&=23160;

Cheers,

Jeff

&=23160;

P.S. you might want to see the NANOG MSD prese= ntation I did some time ago.

On Dec 14, 2019, 11:59 PM -0800, Gyan Mishra &= lt;hayabusagsm=40gmail.com>, wrote:

Jeff

&=23160;

With SR-MPLS with SR-TR let=E2=80=99s say if y= ou use cSP=46 snd don=E2=80=99t have an ERO strict explicit path defined = or is a loose path, then the for the cSP=46 would the transport labels be= 1.&=23160; =46or loose would also be 1 also.&=23160; If the path were ex= plicit defined to egress PE and was 7 hops from ingress to egress then tr= ansport would be 6.&=23160; And if L3 vpn service sid was signaled that w= ould be 1 vpn label. &=23160;

&=23160;

Let me know if I have that right. &=23160;<= /u>

&=23160;

In Nats scenario for IPv6 he has 3 vpnv6 label= s. &=23160;

&=23160;

Why is that=3F &=23160;

&=23160;

With both SR-MPLS and SRv6 the L3 vpn A=46I/SA= =46I MBGP services overlay single label sits on top off SR as if does tod= ay with MPLS so why 3 vpn labels.

&=23160;

So with this draft with BGP-LS and BMI-MSD you= can flood into the IGP the SID depth so all the nodes along the SR-TE pa= th don=E2=80=99t go over the maximum which would result in an error.

&=23160;

If you set your MTU high enough in the core li= ke 9216, does that overcome the SID depth issues with SR-TE=3F<= /u>

&=23160;

Warm&=23160;regards,

&=23160;

Gyan

&=23160;

On Sat, Dec 14, 2019 at 2:43 AM Nat Kao <lekao= =40pyxisworks.org> wrote:

Hi, Jeff.

&=23160;

Thanks for the BMI-MSD reference. If I underst= and correctly:

&=23160;

BMI-MSD =3D Transport Label Depth + Service La= bel Depth

Only former can be utilized by SR-TE policies.=

&=23160;

Currently do we have any method to determine t= he composition of BMI=3F

We need to know the transport label depth when= doing service route per-destination steering.

&=23160;

This problem arises when trying to steer a pla= in IPv4 route and a VPN service route into the same SR-TE policy that exc= eeds the transport label depth of the service route. I'm trying to figure= out the standard behavior in this case since the headend we use currentl= y produces some interesting results.

&=23160;

Regards,

Nat.

&=23160;

On Sat, Dec 14, 2019 at 2:42 AM Jeff Tantsura = <jefftant.ietf=40gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Nat,

&=23160;

Currently defined MSD types are:&=23160;

1: BMI

2: ERLD

&=23160;

Specifically to BMI:

Base MPLS Imposition MSD (BMI-MSD) signals the= total number of MPLS&=23160;labels that can be imposed, including all se= rvice/transport/special&=23160;labels.

The answer to your question is 6=

&=23160;

Cheers,

Jeff

On Dec 13, 2019, 3:42 AM -0800, Nat Kao <lekao= =40pyxisworks.org>, wrote:

Hello, SPRI= NG WG.

How do we deal with an SR-TE policy headend wi= th different MSDs for different types of traffic=3F

=46or example, a headend H can impose:
6 transport labels for plain IPv4 packets;
5 transport labels + 1 IPv6 ExpNull label for plain IPv6 packets;<= u>

3 transport labels&=23160;+ 3 VPN&=23160; labe= ls for VPN packets.

&=23160;

a) =46or a plain IPv4 route R4 and a VPN route= Rv both steered into the SR-TE policy P1 with SID list <S1, S2, S3, S= 4, S5>, what will H perform in this situation=3F
b) What is the MSD of H=3F 6, 5 or 3=3F

&=23160;

Thanks,

Nat.

=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F
spring mailing list
spring=40= ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring

=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F
spring mailing list
spring=40= ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring

--

Gyan S. Mi= shra

IT Network= Engineering & Technology&=23160;

Verizon Co= mmunications&=23160;Inc. (VZ)

13101 Columbia Pike =46DC= 1 3rd =46loor

Silver Spr= ing, MD 20904

United Sta= tes

Phone:&=23160;301 502-1347

Email:&=23160;gyan.s.mishr= a=40verizon.com

www.linkedin.com/in/networ= king-technologies-consultant

&=23160;

=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F
spring mailing list
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=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F
spring mailing list
spring=40= ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/= spring
--

Gyan S. Mishra

IT Network Engineering & Technology&=23= 160;

Verizon Communications&=23160;Inc. (VZ)

13101 Columbia= Pike =46DC1 3rd =46loor

Silver Spring, MD 20904

United States

Phone:&=23160;301 502-1347

Email:&=23160;gyan.s.mishra=40verizon.com<= span>

www.linkedin.com= /in/networking-technologies-consultant


=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F
spring mailing list
spring=40= ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
--

Gyan S. Mishra

IT Network Engineering & Technology&=23= 160;

Verizon Communications&=23160;Inc. (VZ)

13101 Columbia Pike =46DC1 3rd =46loor

Silver Spring, MD 20904

United States

Phone:&=23160;301 502-1347

Email:&=23160;gyan.s.mishra=40verizon.com<= span>

www.linkedin.com= /in/networking-technologies-consultant


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19 Dec 2019 00:19:40 +0000 From: "Zafar Ali (zali)" To: Greg Mirsky , Ole Troan CC: SPRING WG , 6man WG , 6man Chairs <6man-chairs@ietf.org>, "Zafar Ali (zali)" Thread-Topic: [spring] 6man w.g. last call for Thread-Index: AQHVquT4fiT0mGN0ekCReZDXMAlj3aesHu4AgBQ7cQA= Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2019 00:19:40 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/10.1f.0.191110 authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=zali@cisco.com; x-originating-ip: [2001:420:c0cc:1006::31] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 0c69e7a1-7e9c-4623-5426-08d7841923a8 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: DM6PR11MB2972: x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:10000; x-forefront-prvs: 0256C18696 x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; 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Ali (zali)" , 6man WG , SPRING WG References: <15bc440b-1dbc-0930-137f-f016ca527c2c@joelhalpern.com> <8FAF234D-B5C9-42C7-B483-F57C4ECB349F@cisco.com> <6c3eabf3-410d-ecb6-324f-967544b29a30@joelhalpern.com> <95afdc48-b88a-ab1f-f51f-13193ba5dc1c@joelhalpern.com> <8F662D6A-1720-4D31-AEB8-6A3F7E40E996@cisco.com> From: Joel Halpern Direct Message-ID: <52b1d2b1-cd18-9a47-d81e-a30214ab1a14@joelhalpern.com> Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2019 19:29:01 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <8F662D6A-1720-4D31-AEB8-6A3F7E40E996@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] 6man w.g. last call for X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2019 00:29:07 -0000 Zafar, thank you for taking steps to address my concerns. There seem to be several issues remaining. I am not sure I spotted them all, as the ones I see may be masking other issues. [Side note to the chairs: I have no idea how to enter a general discussion of this sort as a pull request. I do not understand the desired behavior well enough to propose specific text.] First, the draft still has as its focus "punt to the control processor". But "Punt to the control process" is not an external observable. It is not a subject for standardization. What needs to be standardized is the behavior to be applied to the packet, not who applies it. Heck, if someone implements all this logic in their fast path (or if they have only one path and therefore can not punt anywhere) it should still be possible to conform to whatever RFC we agree to for OAM processing. Second, there appears to be no description of any case where the O bit is used. All of the examples seem to use the END.OP and END.OTP processing instructions. Since the O_bit definition is clear that the upper layer protocol is NOT to be processed, what is the processing to be performed when the O bit is set? Related to the above, given that the O-bit definition and the END.OP / END.OTP both over-write the S01 step, what is to happen if both are true? Minor: I presume that both over-writes for the S01 step of the SRH are intended to retain the base document "When an SRH is processed" text? If so, given that they say they replace that step, the caveat needs to be included. It looks like one side-effect of END.OP is that once could actually establish communication (TCP or UDP) with a node by addressing it at its END.OP SID? (Presumably from another node inside the SR Domain?) Also, it looks like END.OP and END.OTP both cause termination of the SID processing. I believe it would be helpful to be more explicit about this. Yours, Joel On 12/18/2019 7:01 PM, Zafar Ali (zali) wrote: > Hi Joel, > > Thanks for your review. > > The processing details were embedded in the Section 4. > > We brought them up in the Section 3 and also added additional normative > language in Section 4. > > We have been maintaining the latest version of the draft in the Github. > > However, we also posted the latest diffs, which addresses your comments > as follows: > > * In the new revision, we have added normative text at the beginning > of 3.1.1 where O-bit is defined. > * Sections 3.3 and 3.4 adds normative texts for OAM SIDs. > * 4.1.2 and 4.2.2 further adds additional normative text for Ping and > traceroute use-cases, respectively. > > Latest version is kept in the Github and also uploaded as > https://www.ietf.org/staging/draft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6-oam-03.txt. > > Thanks > > Regards … Zafar > > *From: *"Joel M. Halpern" > *Date: *Thursday, December 5, 2019 at 10:01 PM > *To: *"Zafar Ali (zali)" , 6man WG , > SPRING WG > *Subject: *Re: 6man w.g. last call for > > Sorry, minor typo.  SRH, not NSH, in the 4th paragraph. > > Joel > > On 12/5/2019 9:42 PM, Joel M. Halpern wrote: > > The normative behavior for the bits in various places says that the > > packet is punted to the control process.  In and of itself, that is > fine. > > However, in order for that to be useful, the control process has to > know > > what to do with the packet when it gets there.  In the classic case of > > router redirect, this is coupled with definition of various content to > > be processed by the router control logic. > > In the case of this document, there is no normative definition of what > > the control process is to do with the packet.  And particularly > since in > > many of the cases described the packet that is punted still has an SRH, > > normal packet processing would simply reach the same "punt" step.  With > > nowhere to punt it. > > You asssume in the examples that some forms of parsing that bypass the > > NSH will take place.  But processing does not take place by instinct or > > magic.  It takes place because we write RFCs that describe what has to > > happen.  Without some definition of the required parsing, and I believe > > (although I am guessing due to the lack of description) we also need > > some normative description of what the control process is required > to do. > > Note that in most OAM, we define the behavior that is required, and > then > > indicate where it is permitted to use the control plane to achieve it. > > This results in a clear specification, and implementation flexibility. > > Yours, > > Joel > > On 12/5/2019 9:34 PM, Zafar Ali (zali) wrote: > > Hi Joel, > > I did not understand your comment. > > Can you please point to specific text in the draft for which the > draft > > needs to define normative behavior for the "node punt processor > look > > past the SRH and make determinations based on the content."? > > Thanks > > Regards … Zafar > > *From: *ipv6 > on behalf of "Joel M. Halpern" > > > > > *Date: *Wednesday, December 4, 2019 at 4:37 PM > > *To: *Ole Troan >, 6man WG >, > > SPRING WG > > > *Subject: *Re: 6man w.g. last call for > > > I re-read this draft, and I am afraid it is currently > under-specified. > > In order for the various examples to work, there is assumed > behavior by > > the processor to which packets are punted.  I could not find > where this > > normative behavior is described explicitly.  It appears that the > > behavior requires that the node "punt processor" look past the > SRH and > > make determinations based on the content.  This needs to be > described > > explicitly.  And it needs some discussion of why it is legitimate to > > look past the SRH when the SRH does not show SL=0. > > Yours, > > Joel > > On 12/4/2019 3:53 PM, Ole Troan wrote: > >     Hello, > >          As agreed in the working group session in Singapore, this > >     message starts a new two week 6MAN Working Group Last Call on > > advancing: > >          Title    : Operations, Administration, and Maintenance > (OAM) in > >     Segment Routing Networks with IPv6 Data plane (SRv6) > >          Author   : Z. Ali, C. Filsfils, S. Matsushima, D. > Voyer, M. Chen > >          Filename : draft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6-oam-02 > >          Pages    : 23 > >          Date     : 2019-11-20 > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6-oam/ > >     as a Proposed Standard. > >     Substantive comments and statements of support for > publishing this > >     document should be directed to the mailing list. > >     Editorial suggestions can be sent to the author. This last > call will > >     end on the 18th of December 2019. > >     To improve document quality and ensure that bugs are caught > as early > >     as possible, we would require at least > >     two reviewers to do a complete review of the > document.  Please let > >     the chairs know if you are willing to be a reviewer. > >     The last call will be forwarded to the spring working > group, with > >     discussion directed to the ipv6 list. > >     Thanks, > >     Bob & Ole, 6man co-chairs > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > >     IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > > ipv6@ietf.org > >     Administrative Requests: > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > > ipv6@ietf.org > > Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > > 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([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jqwl5EYnxmZj; Wed, 18 Dec 2019 16:45:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from maila2.tigertech.net (maila2.tigertech.net [208.80.4.152]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9A22F120013; Wed, 18 Dec 2019 16:45:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by maila2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47dY7j3tpJz6GBsF; Wed, 18 Dec 2019 16:45:21 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=joelhalpern.com; s=2.tigertech; t=1576716321; bh=e1Fpx9VJpVXPB6wQ5TSf9mqUAxS8gb6C9iWJCnYFx60=; h=Subject:To:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=TS6vj0M4ny1YAjip/uPYWyLFTkQ9XrodBSvxSvisjuhZDuJR2HKWCDwOoUK0UCj3A zrgPZ5kcJUS61sv6no+oGlhZaQIQUzoN5MsQVmYbIuyOV1MdgolQNR3yQhDeJpGrbH I/egXtOWWDM7EAmV3or46qsJnTN57QkWAITtQY+A= X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at a2.tigertech.net Received: from [192.168.128.43] (209-255-163-147.ip.mcleodusa.net [209.255.163.147]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by maila2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 47dY7h6Z2Pz6GBDc; Wed, 18 Dec 2019 16:45:20 -0800 (PST) To: "Zafar Ali (zali)" , 6man WG , SPRING WG References: <15bc440b-1dbc-0930-137f-f016ca527c2c@joelhalpern.com> <8FAF234D-B5C9-42C7-B483-F57C4ECB349F@cisco.com> <6c3eabf3-410d-ecb6-324f-967544b29a30@joelhalpern.com> <95afdc48-b88a-ab1f-f51f-13193ba5dc1c@joelhalpern.com> <8F662D6A-1720-4D31-AEB8-6A3F7E40E996@cisco.com> From: "Joel M. Halpern" Message-ID: <13540a0f-a653-2e52-d253-062b647454d7@joelhalpern.com> Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2019 19:45:19 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <8F662D6A-1720-4D31-AEB8-6A3F7E40E996@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] 6man w.g. last call for - END.OTP X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2019 00:45:24 -0000 If I am reading the draft correctly, the difference between END.OP and END.OTP is that an internal process is to attach in some internal location a timestamp to the packet. In the abstract, I understand why such cna be useful. However, there is no defined behavior that I know of that can make use of this timestamp. Until such a behavior is defined, what is the value in defining the END.OTP behavior? (Taken in the extreme, until there is such a definition, any implementation which treated END.OTP as END.OP would seem to be indistinguishable from proper operation in terms of behavior on the wire.) Yours, Joel On 12/18/2019 7:01 PM, Zafar Ali (zali) wrote: > Hi Joel, > > Thanks for your review. > > The processing details were embedded in the Section 4. > > We brought them up in the Section 3 and also added additional normative > language in Section 4. > > We have been maintaining the latest version of the draft in the Github. > > However, we also posted the latest diffs, which addresses your comments > as follows: > > * In the new revision, we have added normative text at the beginning > of 3.1.1 where O-bit is defined. > * Sections 3.3 and 3.4 adds normative texts for OAM SIDs. > * 4.1.2 and 4.2.2 further adds additional normative text for Ping and > traceroute use-cases, respectively. > > Latest version is kept in the Github and also uploaded as > https://www.ietf.org/staging/draft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6-oam-03.txt. > > Thanks > > Regards … Zafar > > *From: *"Joel M. Halpern" > *Date: *Thursday, December 5, 2019 at 10:01 PM > *To: *"Zafar Ali (zali)" , 6man WG , > SPRING WG > *Subject: *Re: 6man w.g. last call for > > Sorry, minor typo.  SRH, not NSH, in the 4th paragraph. > > Joel > > On 12/5/2019 9:42 PM, Joel M. Halpern wrote: > > The normative behavior for the bits in various places says that the > > packet is punted to the control process.  In and of itself, that is > fine. > > However, in order for that to be useful, the control process has to > know > > what to do with the packet when it gets there.  In the classic case of > > router redirect, this is coupled with definition of various content to > > be processed by the router control logic. > > In the case of this document, there is no normative definition of what > > the control process is to do with the packet.  And particularly > since in > > many of the cases described the packet that is punted still has an SRH, > > normal packet processing would simply reach the same "punt" step.  With > > nowhere to punt it. > > You asssume in the examples that some forms of parsing that bypass the > > NSH will take place.  But processing does not take place by instinct or > > magic.  It takes place because we write RFCs that describe what has to > > happen.  Without some definition of the required parsing, and I believe > > (although I am guessing due to the lack of description) we also need > > some normative description of what the control process is required > to do. > > Note that in most OAM, we define the behavior that is required, and > then > > indicate where it is permitted to use the control plane to achieve it. > > This results in a clear specification, and implementation flexibility. > > Yours, > > Joel > > On 12/5/2019 9:34 PM, Zafar Ali (zali) wrote: > > Hi Joel, > > I did not understand your comment. > > Can you please point to specific text in the draft for which the > draft > > needs to define normative behavior for the "node punt processor > look > > past the SRH and make determinations based on the content."? > > Thanks > > Regards … Zafar > > *From: *ipv6 > on behalf of "Joel M. Halpern" > > > > > *Date: *Wednesday, December 4, 2019 at 4:37 PM > > *To: *Ole Troan >, 6man WG >, > > SPRING WG > > > *Subject: *Re: 6man w.g. last call for > > > I re-read this draft, and I am afraid it is currently > under-specified. > > In order for the various examples to work, there is assumed > behavior by > > the processor to which packets are punted.  I could not find > where this > > normative behavior is described explicitly.  It appears that the > > behavior requires that the node "punt processor" look past the > SRH and > > make determinations based on the content.  This needs to be > described > > explicitly.  And it needs some discussion of why it is legitimate to > > look past the SRH when the SRH does not show SL=0. > > Yours, > > Joel > > On 12/4/2019 3:53 PM, Ole Troan wrote: > >     Hello, > >          As agreed in the working group session in Singapore, this > >     message starts a new two week 6MAN Working Group Last Call on > > advancing: > >          Title    : Operations, Administration, and Maintenance > (OAM) in > >     Segment Routing Networks with IPv6 Data plane (SRv6) > >          Author   : Z. Ali, C. Filsfils, S. Matsushima, D. > Voyer, M. Chen > >          Filename : draft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6-oam-02 > >          Pages    : 23 > >          Date     : 2019-11-20 > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6-oam/ > >     as a Proposed Standard. > >     Substantive comments and statements of support for > publishing this > >     document should be directed to the mailing list. > >     Editorial suggestions can be sent to the author. This last > call will > >     end on the 18th of December 2019. > >     To improve document quality and ensure that bugs are caught > as early > >     as possible, we would require at least > >     two reviewers to do a complete review of the > document.  Please let > >     the chairs know if you are willing to be a reviewer. > >     The last call will be forwarded to the spring working > group, with > >     discussion directed to the ipv6 list. > >     Thanks, > >     Bob & Ole, 6man co-chairs > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > >     IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > > ipv6@ietf.org > >     Administrative Requests: > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > > ipv6@ietf.org > > Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > > 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boundary="000000000000d5bf36059a051788" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Different MSDs for different traffic types on the same headend. X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2019 02:12:34 -0000 --000000000000d5bf36059a051788 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thank you Jeff for taking the time for the detailed response!! Cheers & Happy Holidays!! Gyan On Wed, Dec 18, 2019 at 7:13 PM Jeff Tantsura wrote: > Pleasure, see inline > /*somewhat philosophical ;-) > > Cheers, > Jeff > On Dec 17, 2019, 10:28 PM -0800, Gyan Mishra , > wrote: > > > Thanks Jeff!! > > Kind regards > > I have a personal Cisco VIRL server server which I just finished building > out the SP topology with two SP SR domains. Cisco XRv supports SRv6 in > 6.6.1 so I have loaded the latest image 7.0.1 so hopefully have all > features. Plan to get it all up and running tomorrow. > > Question- Since SR-MPLS uses an IPv4 data plane and since SRv6 uses IPv6 > data plane is it possible to run SRv6 as an overlay both SR-MPLS and SRv6 > together as two ships in the night. Would save on having to go back and > forth between simulations if they can both live together so I can test > both simultaneously. > > [jeff] I=E2=80=99m not sure what you mean by overlay, just run ipv4+mpls = for > SR-MPLS and ipv6 for SRv6, perhaps different interfaces rather than dual > stack > > > In-line questions follow up > > On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 8:41 PM Jeff Tantsura > wrote: > >> Gyan, >> >> I wrote this presentation ~3 years ago, so the numbers are not >> necessarily current. >> >> Please see inline, hope this helps you to better understand the >> technology behind the terminology. >> Let me know if anything is unclear. >> >> Cheers, >> Jeff >> On Dec 17, 2019, 3:45 PM -0800, Gyan Mishra , >> wrote: >> >> >> Hi Ketan >> >> Is this the artificial boundary below for SR-TE from the document >> provided by Jeff. >> >> MSD supported by different HW/SW differs widely : >> =E2=80=93 Linux (kernel 4.10): 2 SID=E2=80=99s, some improvements recent= ly (as of 4.11) =E2=80=93 >> Low end off the shelf (merchant) silicon, e.g. BCM Trident2: 3-5 SID=E2= =80=99s =E2=80=93 >> High end off the shelf (merchant) silicon, e.g BCM Jericho1 : 4-7 SID=E2= =80=99s =E2=80=93 >> Vendor=E2=80=99 silicon, e.g. Juniper=E2=80=99 Trio, Nokia=E2=80=99 FP3:= 4-10+ SID=E2=80=99s >> >> So if you are doing MPLS-TE w/o SR-TE policies reusing they MPLS data >> plane the label stack is identical to MPLS just with different label ran= ge >> for SRGB 16000-23999 for absolute or indexed label. >> >> [jeff]SRGB is either configurable or a static label range, it doesn=E2= =80=99t >> have to be identical with SR domain, indexing provides the abstraction (= and >> there=E2=80=99s life outside of Cisco ;-)) >> >> Label stack for SR-MPLS is identical to MPLS with single topmost label >> for label switching through the core and bottom of stack services label = for >> L3 vpn services. >> >> [jeff] NH in the VPN route is recursively resolved to a LSP (or policy i= n >> modern lingo) that could have 1 or more SID=E2=80=99s associated with it= (). In >> MPLS case, without TE, would be the label/N-SID of the egress PE, the SI= D >> stack would grow any time you need to use Adj-SID=E2=80=99s to deviate f= rom SPT. >> Specifically to SR, egress PE can also associate a particular path (colo= r) >> with the route and signal to the ingress PE what path to take in order t= o >> reach it (NH). >> > > [gyan] So if you are running just SR-MPLS using SPF path and don=E2= =80=99t > deviate from that then with prefix/node SID which I believe is like the > egress PE ibgp NH loopback FEC destination, that you have a SID label > binding for your LSP to build topmost reusing the MPLS data plane. In th= e > case described there would be only 1 transport label. Correct? > > [jeff] yes, the only difference with LDP/RSVP would be the =E2=80=9Cgloba= lly > significant label=E2=80=9D (N-SID of egress PE), so there=E2=80=99s no sw= ap (there is but > to the same value) > > > You would only have an Adj-SID if you are doing SR-TE. Correct? In that > case if you had one Adj-SID in the middle of the path like a loose explic= it > route object ERO, then would still be only 1 transport label in the stack > as if you were not doing SR-TE. Or would it be 2 labels, not sure. > > [jeff] if Adj-SID is locally significant (L flag not set) (default in mos= t > implementation) is must be evaluated only by the node that it is local to= , > which should result in 2 label construct (N-SID,Adj-SID), there are ways = to > optimize but this is the idea. > > > So let=E2=80=99s say If your SR-TE path deviated from the spf along 10 ho= ps, so > then you would have 10 Adj-SIDs and so 10 labels in the stack. So this i= s > where MSD and BGP-LS IGP extensions come into play to signal back to the > head end that the maximum SID depth has exceeded resulting in an error. = At > that point the > SR-TE LSP would be broken and you would have to manually build policy wit= h > less strict hops. > > [jeff] depends on implementation, it could as well be 20. No, this is > other way around - (simplified version) BGP-LS distributes SR related dat= a > to the PCE and then PCE computes a path that meets the constrains, MSD > being one of them, in other words - if PCE can=E2=80=99t compute a path t= o a > destination that meets the constrains, it will not be instantiated > > > I guess If you were using PCEP centralized controller that would signal > MSD exceeded but I think you would still be in a broken LSP state. The > pcep controller would have to be sitting next to the head end for the SR-= TE > policy for the LSP to fix automatically. Is that correct? > > [jeff]see previous answer, if MSD (or any other) constrains can=E2=80=99t= be met, > the path is not going to be instantiated > PCEP is the protocol between PCE and PCC and has little to do with > computation logic, PCE could compute a path but use for example RESTCONF = to > communicate with the head-end > > > So for SR-TE due to the MSD issues and SID depth asic limitations even > with the latest asic, you really have to deploy a pcep controller based > architecture near the head end with SR-MPLS if using SR-TE. If you are n= ot > using SR-TE then I believe there is really no benefit of going to SR-MPLS= . > > > [jeff] you mean PCE controller. I disagree with you, reducing number of > protocols in the network is a great goal (reduces complexity and number o= f > interactions between them). Look at RSVP - there are many people using it > but a only little part of them is actually doing TE, most use it for FRR > and tactical TE. > To cite a great book ;-) - complexity doesn=E2=80=99t disappear, it moves= to > different places. In SR we have significantly reduced amount of state an= d > complexity associated with maintaining it in the network, but it is still > there, it has just moved to a controller. In RSVP for example, you could = do > in-band BW reservations, in SR it is =E2=80=9Csoft=E2=80=9D controller h= as to do it and > then network gets configured. Multicast works in IP because there=E2=80= =99s enough > state to compute loop-free MDT and so forth > > > You agree. > > I guess you save on having to maintain ldp state on each node. Thats no= t > a big deal or business justification to switch to SR-MPLS as for operator= s > =E2=80=9CMPLS=E2=80=9D is their bread & butter they are use to so why cha= nge. > > [jeff] No, I don=E2=80=99t agree - the value is not in removing LDP stat= e but > reducing overall complexity, interactions between IGPs and LDP are comple= x > and error prone, over the time resulted in 100=E2=80=99s of high severity= bugs and > broken networks (if you are old enough you should remember :)) > > > I think the big benefit for both SR-MPLS and SRv6 is individual coloring > of vpn flows. Cisco calls it per-VRF TE, but it=E2=80=99s ugly to config= ure and > manage. > > [jeff] well, complain to your account, building networking features is > quite different from intuitive interfaces ;-) color is a piece of metadat= a > associated with a route, on itself not directly related to SR, nothing > prevents you of signaling a RSVP LSP or similar, there=E2=80=99s some wor= k on > generalization of colored path advertisement which I find very valuable > (draft-chan-idr-bgp-lu2/ draft-szarecki-idr-bgp-lcu-traffic-steering) > > > So SR-MPLS and SRv6 is the future solution for operators that need the pe= r > vpn coloring. > > [jeff] different people have different requirements, our job here is to > build technology that is flexible enough to address them at scale while > manageable. > > > Given the issues with SR-TE with SID depth asic limitations is it possibl= e > to use traditional RSVP TE. > > [jeff] I don=E2=80=99t think you are right, while limitations are there, = there are > solvable, by a better silicon (or trading off capacity for functionality = - > looping/recycling packets), by a more clever computation, by brining some > of the state back (take a look > at draft-chunduri-lsr-isis-preferred-path-routing) > > > I am going to try in my virl setup as that could be a good workaround for > SR-TE hardware limitations until the hardware is up to snuff to handle ve= ry > long explicit paths. > > I believe their is a draft with teas in the works for IP TE to use rsvp > bandwidth signaling path and reserve messages with both SR-MPLS and SRv6. > > [jeff] good engineering is always a right balance of trade-offs, > extremities on either side (no state/all the state in a packet) (OpenFlow > is a great example) are rigid and won=E2=80=99t survive when deployed at = scale. > > > >> For clarity on nomenclature below please comment: >> >> Transport label - This is the SID label stack insertion at the ingress P= E >> head end to the SR-MPLS domain performing SR-TE. Each hop along the way >> hop the top SID label is popped until SL=3D=3D0 at which time PHP defaul= t or >> UHP explicit null =E2=80=9Cpipe mode=E2=80=9D is performed. (Similar to = topmost in MPLS >> label switch world but now its a stack of labels instead of a single >> label) >> >> [jeff] There=E2=80=99s no SL field in MPLS header, there=E2=80=99s howev= er BoS bit that >> should be set on the most bottom label (in this case - VPN label), PHP i= s >> explicitly signaled by the egress PE (P/NP-flag in Prefix-SID) >> >> >> Once you get past the transport label now you are on common ground with >> M-BGP overlay services >> >> Services label- L3 vpn service SID signaled. >> So with the service label that is signaled from ingress to egress PE for >> service. Is this a single label like traditional L3 vpn aggregate label= or >> more then one or many labels. >> >> [jeff] there=E2=80=99s no differences with any other VPNoverFoo, service= labels >> are signaled in exactly same way independently of the transport and are >> locally significant (that=E2=80=99s why LxVPN=E2=80=99s are such a great= technology) >> >> >> The services label my guess should be fixed and not have any vendor >> specific boundary constraints. >> >> [jeff] they are locally significant, in any implementation - label block= s >> are associated with particular functions and programmed in HW, so the >> service label would come out of the service range, which is significant = to >> the device advertising it. >> In modern OS=E2=80=99s the ranges are configurable, in older ones, it is= static >> and there=E2=80=99s usually a header file that looks like: >> #define MPLS_L3VPN_MIN_LABEL 0x40000 >> #define MPLS_L3VPN_MAX_LABEL 0x85FFF >> >> >> Gyan >> >> On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 7:21 AM Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) < >> ketant@cisco.com> wrote: >> >>> Hi Nat, >>> >>> >>> >>> The MSD framework enables us to define more/new MSD types. If there is = a >>> real use-case and requirement (as you express) and the necessary MSD >>> type(s) can be formally defined then perhaps the WG can evaluate it. >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Ketan >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* spring *On Behalf Of* Nat Kao >>> *Sent:* 17 December 2019 17:16 >>> *To:* Robert Raszuk >>> *Cc:* SPRING WG ; Nat Kao >>> *Subject:* Re: [spring] Different MSDs for different traffic types on >>> the same headend. >>> >>> >>> >>> Hello, Robert. >>> >>> Surely the current BMI-MSD definition is sufficient for platforms >>> without artificial boundaries. >>> >>> In this ideal case, maximum labels available for SR-TE policy can be >>> inferred from BMI-MSD and VPN routes. >>> >>> >>> However we have 3 different artificial boundaries across 3 different >>> platforms now. >>> >>> Hardcoding these boundaries might not scale well. (Especially different >>> OS versions may behave differently.) >>> >>> A standard mechanism to discover this boundary would greatly help >>> constructing SR-TE policy candidate paths. >>> >>> >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Nat. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 5:58 PM Robert Raszuk wrote= : >>> >>> Hi Nat, >>> >>> >>> >>> I am having a bit of difficulty understanding reasoning and the way you >>> are separating transport from service labels. >>> >>> >>> >>> The processing label limit usually comes from data plane capabilities o= f >>> the platform namely LFIB or hardware below. >>> >>> >>> >>> Such layer is function agnostic and it does not matter what role the >>> label serves. >>> >>> >>> >>> Label lookup results in pointer to a adj. rewrite on the outbound side. >>> It really does not matter if the adjacent peer is your P router, segmen= t >>> endpoint or CE. >>> >>> >>> >>> Of course there are number of processing exceptions - for example >>> concept of aggregate VPN label, additional header modifications etc ... >>> >>> >>> >>> Likely some platforms put such artificial boundary between transport an= d >>> service hence your request. But if so IMHO this is more of an issue wit= h >>> specific platform or its marketing message then IETF :). >>> >>> >>> >>> Many thx, >>> R. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 6:06 AM Nat Kao wrote: >>> >>> Hi, Jeff. >>> >>> Consider a headend that can perform 1 of the following 2 modes(but not >>> both): >>> >>> 1) Plain IPv4: 6 transport labels + 0 service label =3D> traffic can be >>> steered into a 6-label SR-TE policy. >>> >>> 2) Any type of VPN: 3 transport labels + 1~3 service labels =3D> traffi= c >>> cannot be steered into a 6-label SR-TE policy. >>> >>> a) As defined in RFC8491, the BMI-MSD is 6 for this headend. Do we have >>> a standardized way to signal the transport label depth in mode 2? >>> >>> Maybe in a different MSD type? >>> >>> b) Since plain IPv4 and VPN routes can be steered into the same SR-TE >>> policy, do we have a standardized headend behavior in this situation? >>> >>> (Should I open a new thread to discuss this? It seems not quite >>> MSD-relative.) >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks... >>> >>> Nat >>> >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 7:19 AM Jeff Tantsura >>> wrote: >>> >>> Gyan, >>> >>> >>> >>> MSD is only relevant for a device that either imposes the label stack >>> (head-end) or manipulates it (BSID anchor). There are some other constr= ains >>> when it comes to entropy labels and ERLD, please read the respective dr= afts. >>> >>> In general, SID stack would grow when TE is in use (any time you need t= o >>> use additional SID to deviate from SPT), another case is when additiona= l >>> SID=E2=80=99s are used for services on the nodes, other than the tail-e= nd. >>> >>> That=E2=80=99s why we've designed MSD to be very flexible to accommodat= e all the >>> different use cases, it is upto computational logic to decide how to de= al >>> with different constrains (MSD types) >>> >>> >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> Jeff >>> >>> >>> >>> P.S. you might want to see the NANOG MSD presentation I did some time >>> ago. >>> >>> >>> https://pc.nanog.org/static/published/meetings/NANOG71/1424/20171004_Ta= ntsura_The_Critical_Role_v1.pdf >>> >>> On Dec 14, 2019, 11:59 PM -0800, Gyan Mishra , >>> wrote: >>> >>> Jeff >>> >>> >>> >>> With SR-MPLS with SR-TR let=E2=80=99s say if you use cSPF snd don=E2=80= =99t have an ERO >>> strict explicit path defined or is a loose path, then the for the cSPF >>> would the transport labels be 1. For loose would also be 1 also. If t= he >>> path were explicit defined to egress PE and was 7 hops from ingress to >>> egress then transport would be 6. And if L3 vpn service sid was signal= ed >>> that would be 1 vpn label. >>> >>> >>> >>> Let me know if I have that right. >>> >>> >>> >>> In Nats scenario for IPv6 he has 3 vpnv6 labels. >>> >>> >>> >>> Why is that? >>> >>> >>> >>> With both SR-MPLS and SRv6 the L3 vpn AFI/SAFI MBGP services overlay >>> single label sits on top off SR as if does today with MPLS so why 3 vpn >>> labels. >>> >>> >>> >>> So with this draft with BGP-LS and BMI-MSD you can flood into the IGP >>> the SID depth so all the nodes along the SR-TE path don=E2=80=99t go ov= er the >>> maximum which would result in an error. >>> >>> >>> >>> If you set your MTU high enough in the core like 9216, does that >>> overcome the SID depth issues with SR-TE? >>> >>> >>> >>> Warm regards, >>> >>> >>> >>> Gyan >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sat, Dec 14, 2019 at 2:43 AM Nat Kao wrote: >>> >>> Hi, Jeff. >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks for the BMI-MSD reference. If I understand correctly: >>> >>> >>> >>> BMI-MSD =3D Transport Label Depth + Service Label Depth >>> >>> Only former can be utilized by SR-TE policies. >>> >>> >>> >>> Currently do we have any method to determine the composition of BMI? >>> >>> We need to know the transport label depth when doing service route >>> per-destination steering. >>> >>> >>> >>> This problem arises when trying to steer a plain IPv4 route and a VPN >>> service route into the same SR-TE policy that exceeds the transport lab= el >>> depth of the service route. I'm trying to figure out the standard behav= ior >>> in this case since the headend we use currently produces some interesti= ng >>> results. >>> >>> >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Nat. >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sat, Dec 14, 2019 at 2:42 AM Jeff Tantsura >> > wrote: >>> >>> Hi Nat, >>> >>> >>> >>> Please read https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8491#section-5 >>> >>> Currently defined MSD types are: >>> >>> 1: BMI >>> >>> 2: ERLD >>> >>> >>> >>> Specifically to BMI: >>> >>> Base MPLS Imposition MSD (BMI-MSD) signals the total number of >>> MPLS labels that can be imposed, including all >>> service/transport/special labels. >>> >>> The answer to your question is 6 >>> >>> >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> Jeff >>> >>> On Dec 13, 2019, 3:42 AM -0800, Nat Kao , wrote: >>> >>> Hello, SPRING WG. >>> >>> How do we deal with an SR-TE policy headend with different MSDs for >>> different types of traffic? >>> >>> For example, a headend H can impose: >>> 6 transport labels for plain IPv4 packets; >>> 5 transport labels + 1 IPv6 ExpNull label for plain IPv6 packets; >>> >>> 3 transport labels + 3 VPN labels for VPN packets. >>> >>> >>> >>> a) For a plain IPv4 route R4 and a VPN route Rv both steered into the >>> SR-TE policy P1 with SID list , what will H perform= in >>> this situation? >>> b) What is the MSD of H? 6, 5 or 3? >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Nat. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> spring mailing list >>> spring@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> spring mailing list >>> spring@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Gyan S. Mishra >>> >>> IT Network Engineering & Technology >>> >>> Verizon Communications Inc. (VZ) >>> >>> 13101 Columbia Pike >>> >>> FDC1 3rd Floor >>> >>> Silver Spring, MD 20904 >>> >>> United States >>> >>> Phone: 301 502-1347 >>> >>> Email: gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com >>> >>> www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies-consultant >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> spring mailing list >>> spring@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> spring mailing list >>> spring@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring >>> >> -- >> >> Gyan S. Mishra >> >> IT Network Engineering & Technology >> >> Verizon Communications Inc. (VZ) >> >> 13101 Columbia Pike >> >> FDC1 3rd Floor >> >> Silver Spring, MD 20904 >> >> United States >> >> Phone: 301 502-1347 >> >> Email: gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com >> >> www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies-consultant >> >> _______________________________________________ >> spring mailing list >> spring@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring >> >> -- > > Gyan S. Mishra > > IT Network Engineering & Technology > > Verizon Communications Inc. (VZ) > > 13101 Columbia Pike > > FDC1 3rd Floor > > Silver Spring, MD 20904 > > United States > > Phone: 301 502-1347 > > Email: gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com > > www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies-consultant > > -- Gyan S. Mishra IT Network Engineering & Technology Verizon Communications Inc. (VZ) 13101 Columbia Pike FDC1 3rd Floor Silver Spring, MD 20904 United States Phone: 301 502-1347 Email: gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies-consultant --000000000000d5bf36059a051788 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thank you Jeff for taking the time for the detailed = response!!

Cheers = & Happy=C2=A0Holidays!!

Gyan

On Wed, Dec 18, 2019 at 7:13 PM Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:
Pleasure, see inline
/*somewhat philosophical ;-)

Cheers,
Jeff
On Dec 17, 2019, 10:28 PM -0800, Gyan Mis= hra <hayabusa= gsm@gmail.com>, wrote:

Thanks Jeff!!

Kind=C2=A0regards

I have a personal Cisco VIRL server server which I just f= inished building out the SP topology with two SP SR domains.=C2=A0 Cisco XR= v supports SRv6 in 6.6.1 so I have loaded the latest image 7.0.1 so hopeful= ly have all features.=C2=A0 Plan to get it all up and running tomorrow.

Question- =C2=A0Since SR-MPLS uses an IPv4 data plane and= since SRv6 uses IPv6 data plane is it possible to run SRv6 as an overlay b= oth SR-MPLS and SRv6 together as two ships in the night.=C2=A0 Would save o= n having to go back and forth between simulations if they can both live tog= ether =C2=A0so I can test both simultaneously.=C2=A0
[jeff] I=E2=80=99m not sure what you mean by overlay, just run ipv4+mp= ls for SR-MPLS and ipv6 for SRv6, perhaps different interfaces rather than = dual stack

In-line questions follow up

On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 8:41 PM Jeff = Tantsura <j= efftant.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:
Gyan,

I wrote this presentation ~3 years ago, so the numbers ar= e not necessarily current.

Please see inline, hope this helps you to better understa= nd the technology behind the terminology.
Let me know if anything is unclear.

Cheers,
Jeff
On Dec 17, 2019, 3:45 PM -0800, Gyan Mish= ra <hayabusag= sm@gmail.com>, wrote:

Hi Ketan=C2=A0

Is this the artificial boundary below for SR-TE from the = document provided by Jeff.

=C2=A0MSD supported by different HW/SW differs widely :
=E2=80=93 Linux (kernel 4.10): 2 SID=E2=80=99s, some impr= ovements recently (as of 4.11) =E2=80=93 Low end off the shelf (merchant) s= ilicon, e.g. BCM Trident2: 3-5 SID=E2=80=99s =E2=80=93 High end off the she= lf (merchant) silicon, e.g BCM Jericho1 : 4-7 SID=E2=80=99s =E2=80=93 Vendo= r=E2=80=99 silicon, e.g. Juniper=E2=80=99 Trio, Nokia=E2=80=99 FP3: 4-10+ S= ID=E2=80=99s

So if you are doing MPLS-TE w/o SR-TE policies reusing th= ey MPLS data plane the label stack is identical to MPLS just with different= label range for SRGB 16000-23999 for absolute or indexed label.=C2=A0
[jeff]SRGB is either configurable or a static label range, it doesn=E2= =80=99t have to be identical with SR domain, indexing provides the abstract= ion (and there=E2=80=99s life outside of Cisco ;-))=C2=A0
Label stack for SR-MPLS is identical to MPLS with single = topmost label for label switching through the core and bottom of stack serv= ices label for L3 vpn services.=C2=A0
[jeff] NH in the VPN route is recursively resolved to a LSP (or policy= in modern lingo) that could have 1 or more SID=E2=80=99s associated with i= t (). In MPLS case, without TE, would be the label/N-SID of the egress PE, = the SID stack would grow any time you need to use Adj-SID=E2=80=99s to devi= ate from SPT. Specifically to SR, egress PE can also associate a particular= path (color) with the route and signal to the ingress PE what path to take= in order to reach it (NH).

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 [gyan] So if you are running just SR-MPLS u= sing SPF path and don=E2=80=99t deviate from that then with prefix/node SID= which I believe is like the egress PE ibgp NH loopback FEC destination, th= at you have a SID label binding for your LSP to build topmost reusing the M= PLS data plane.=C2=A0 In the case described there would be only 1 transport= label.=C2=A0 Correct?=C2=A0
[jeff] yes, the only difference with LDP/RSVP would be the =E2=80=9Cgl= obally significant label=E2=80=9D (N-SID of egress PE), so there=E2=80=99s = no swap (there is but to the same value)

You would only have an Adj-SID if you are doing SR-TE.=C2= =A0 Correct?=C2=A0 In that case if you had one Adj-SID in the middle of the= path like a loose explicit route object ERO, then would still be only 1 tr= ansport label in the stack as if you were not doing SR-TE.=C2=A0 Or would i= t be 2 labels, not sure.=C2=A0
[jeff] if Adj-SID is locally significant (L flag not set) (default in = most implementation) is must be evaluated only by the node that it is local= to, which should result in 2 label construct (N-SID,Adj-SID), there are wa= ys to optimize but this is the idea.

So let=E2=80=99s say If your SR-TE path deviated from the= spf along 10 hops, so then you would have 10 Adj-SIDs and so 10 labels in = the stack.=C2=A0 So this is where MSD and BGP-LS IGP extensions come into p= lay to signal back to the head end that the maximum SID depth has exceeded = resulting in an error.=C2=A0 At that point the=C2=A0
SR-TE LSP would be broken and you would have to manually = build policy with less strict hops. =C2=A0=C2=A0
[jeff] depends on implementation, it could as well be 20. No, this is = other way around - (simplified version) BGP-LS distributes SR related data = to the PCE and then PCE computes a path that meets the constrains, MSD bein= g one of them, in other words - if PCE can=E2=80=99t compute a path to a de= stination that meets the constrains, it will not be instantiated=C2=A0

I guess If you were using PCEP centralized controller tha= t would signal MSD exceeded but I think you would still be in a broken LSP = state.=C2=A0 The pcep controller would have to be sitting next to the head = end for the SR-TE policy for the LSP to fix automatically.=C2=A0 Is that co= rrect?=C2=A0
[jeff]see previous answer, if MSD (or any other) constrains can=E2=80= =99t be met, the path is not going to be instantiated
PCEP is the protocol between PCE and PCC and has little t= o do with computation logic, PCE could compute a path but use for example R= ESTCONF to communicate with the head-end

So for SR-TE due to the MSD issues and SID depth asic lim= itations even with the latest asic, you really have to deploy a pcep contro= ller based architecture near the head end with SR-MPLS if using SR-TE.=C2= =A0 If you are not using SR-TE then I believe there is really no benefit of= going to SR-MPLS. =C2=A0=C2=A0
[jeff] you mean PCE controller. I disagree with you, reducing number o= f protocols in the network is a great goal (reduces complexity and number o= f interactions between them). Look at RSVP - there are many people using it= but a only little part of them is actually doing TE, most use it for FRR a= nd tactical TE.
To cite a great book ;-) - complexity doesn=E2=80=99t dis= appear, it moves to different places. In SR we have significantly reduced a= mount of =C2=A0state and complexity associated with maintaining it in the n= etwork, but it is still there, it has just moved to a controller. In RSVP f= or example, you could do in-band =C2=A0BW reservations, in SR it is =E2=80= =9Csoft=E2=80=9D controller has to do it and then network gets configured. = Multicast works in IP because there=E2=80=99s enough state to compute loop-= free MDT and so forth

You agree. =C2=A0

I guess you save on having to maintain ldp state on each = node.=C2=A0 Thats =C2=A0not a big deal or business justification to switch = to SR-MPLS as for operators =E2=80=9CMPLS=E2=80=9D is their bread & but= ter they are use to so why change. =C2=A0=C2=A0
[jeff] No, I don=E2=80=99t agree - =C2=A0the value is not in removing = LDP state but reducing overall complexity, interactions between IGPs and LD= P are complex and error prone, over the time resulted in 100=E2=80=99s of h= igh severity bugs and broken networks (if you are old enough you should rem= ember :))=C2=A0

I think the big benefit for both SR-MPLS and SRv6 is indi= vidual coloring of vpn flows.=C2=A0 Cisco calls it per-VRF TE, but it=E2=80= =99s ugly to configure and manage. =C2=A0=C2=A0
[jeff] well, complain to your account, building networking features is= quite different from intuitive interfaces ;-) color is a piece of metadata= associated with a route, on itself not directly related to SR, nothing pre= vents you of signaling a RSVP LSP or similar, there=E2=80=99s some work on = generalization of colored path advertisement which I find very valuable (dr= aft-chan-idr-bgp-lu2/ =C2=A0draft-szarecki-idr-bgp-lcu-traffic-steering)=C2= =A0

So SR-MPLS and SRv6 is the future solution for operators = that need the per vpn coloring.=C2=A0
[jeff] different people have different requirements, our job here is t= o build technology that is flexible enough to address them at scale while m= anageable.=C2=A0

Given the issues with SR-TE with SID depth asic limitatio= ns is it possible to use traditional RSVP TE.=C2=A0
[jeff] I don=E2=80=99t think you are right, while limitations are ther= e, there are solvable, by a better silicon (or trading off capacity for fun= ctionality - looping/recycling packets), by a more clever computation, by b= rining some of the state back (take a look at=C2=A0draft-chunduri-lsr-isis-= preferred-path-routing)

I am going to try in my virl setup as that could be a goo= d workaround for SR-TE hardware limitations until the hardware is up to snu= ff to handle very long explicit paths.

I believe their is a draft with teas in the works for IP = TE to use rsvp bandwidth signaling path and reserve messages with both SR-M= PLS and SRv6.=C2=A0
[jeff] good engineering is always a right balance of trade-offs, extre= mities on either side (no state/all the state in a packet) (OpenFlow is a g= reat example) are rigid and won=E2=80=99t survive when deployed at scale.


For clarity on nomenclature below please comment:

Transport label - This is the SID label stack insertion a= t the ingress PE head end to the SR-MPLS domain performing SR-TE.=C2=A0 Eac= h hop along the way hop the top SID label is popped until SL=3D=3D0 at whic= h time PHP default or UHP explicit null =E2=80=9Cpipe mode=E2=80=9D is perf= ormed. (Similar to topmost in MPLS label switch world but now its a stack o= f labels =C2=A0instead of a single label)=C2=A0
[jeff] There=E2=80=99s no SL field in MPLS header, there=E2=80=99s how= ever BoS bit that should be set on the most bottom label (in this case - VP= N label), PHP is explicitly signaled by the egress PE (P/NP-flag in Prefix-= SID)

Once you get past the transport label now you are on comm= on ground with M-BGP overlay services

Services label- L3 vpn service SID signaled.
So with the service label that is signaled from ingress t= o egress PE for service.=C2=A0 Is this a single label like traditional L3 v= pn aggregate label or more then one or many labels.=C2=A0
[jeff] there=E2=80=99s no differences with any other VPNoverFoo, servi= ce labels are signaled in exactly same way independently of the transport a= nd are locally significant (that=E2=80=99s why LxVPN=E2=80=99s are such a g= reat technology) =C2=A0

The services label my guess should be fixed and not have = any vendor specific boundary constraints.=C2=A0
[jeff] they are locally significant, in any implementation - label blo= cks are associated with particular functions and programmed in HW, so the s= ervice label would come out of the service range, which is significant to t= he device advertising it.
In modern OS=E2=80=99s the ranges are configurable, in ol= der ones, it is static and there=E2=80=99s usually a header file that looks= like:
#define MPLS_L3VPN_MIN_LABEL =C2=A00x40000
#define MPLS_L3VPN_MAX_LABEL 0x85FFF


Gyan

On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 7:21 AM Ketan= Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com> wrote:

Hi Nat,

=C2=A0

The MSD framework enables us to define more/ne= w MSD types. If there is a real use-case and requirement (as you express) a= nd the necessary MSD type(s) can be formally defined then perhaps the WG ca= n evaluate it.

=C2=A0

Thanks,

Ketan

=C2=A0

From: spring <spring-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Nat Kao
Sent: 17 December 2019 17:16
To: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Cc: SPRING WG <spring@ietf.org>; Nat Kao <lekao@pyxisworks.org>
Subject: Re: [spring] Different MSDs for different traffic types on = the same headend.

=C2=A0

Hello, Robert.=

Surely the current BMI-MSD definition is sufficient = for platforms without artificial boundaries.

In this ideal case, maximum labels available for SR-= TE policy can be inferred from BMI-MSD and VPN routes.


However we have 3 different artificial boundaries across 3 different platfo= rms now.

Hardcoding these boundaries might not scale well. (E= specially different OS versions may behave differently.)

A standard mechanism to discover this boundary would= greatly help constructing SR-TE policy candidate paths.

=C2=A0

Regards,

Nat.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 5:58 PM Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net&= gt; wrote:

Hi Nat,

=C2=A0

I am having a bit of difficulty understanding reason= ing and the way you are separating transport from service labels.=C2=A0<= /u>

=C2=A0

The processing label limit usually comes from data p= lane capabilities=C2=A0of the platform namely LFIB or hardware below.=C2=A0=

=C2=A0

Such layer is function agnostic and it does not matt= er what role the label serves.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Label lookup results in pointer to a adj. rewrite on= the outbound side. It really does not matter if the adjacent=C2=A0peer is = your P router, segment endpoint=C2=A0or CE.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Of course there are number of processing exceptions = - for example concept of aggregate VPN label, additional header modificatio= ns etc ...=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Likely some platforms put such artificial=C2=A0bound= ary between transport=C2=A0and service hence your request. But if so IMHO t= his is more of an issue=C2=A0with specific platform or its marketing messag= e then IETF :).=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Many thx,
R.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 6:06 AM Nat Kao <lekao@pyxisworks.org= > wrote:

Hi, Jeff.

Consider a headend that can perform 1 of the followi= ng 2 modes(but not both):

1) Plain IPv4: 6 transport labels + 0 service label = =3D> traffic can be steered into a 6-label SR-TE policy.

2) Any type of VPN: 3= transport labels + 1~3 service labels =3D> traffic cannot be steered in= to a 6-label SR-TE policy.

a) As defined in RFC8491, the BMI-MSD is 6 for this = headend. Do we have a standardized way to signal the transport label depth = in mode 2?

=C2=A0=C2=A0 Maybe in a different MSD type?

b) Since plain IPv4 and VPN routes can be steered in= to the same SR-TE policy, do we have a standardized headend behavior in thi= s situation?

=C2=A0=C2=A0 (Should I open a new thread to discuss = this? It seems not quite MSD-relative.)

=C2=A0

Thanks...

Nat

=C2=A0

On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 7:19 AM Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gm= ail.com> wrote:

Gyan,

=C2=A0

MSD is only relevant for a device that either impose= s the label stack (head-end) or manipulates it (BSID anchor). There are som= e other constrains when it comes to entropy labels and ERLD, please read th= e respective drafts.

In general, SID stack would grow when TE is in use (= any time you need to use additional SID to deviate from SPT), another case = is when additional SID=E2=80=99s are used for services on the nodes, other = than the tail-end.

That=E2=80=99s why we've designed MSD to be very= flexible to accommodate all the different use cases, it is upto computatio= nal logic to decide how to deal with different constrains (MSD types)=C2=A0=

=C2=A0

Cheers,

Jeff

=C2=A0

P.S. you might want to see the NANOG MSD presentatio= n I did some time ago.

On Dec 14, 2019, 11:59 PM -0800, Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.c= om>, wrote:

Jeff

=C2=A0

With SR-MPLS with SR-TR let=E2=80=99s say if you use= cSPF snd don=E2=80=99t have an ERO strict explicit path defined or is a lo= ose path, then the for the cSPF would the transport labels be 1.=C2=A0 For = loose would also be 1 also.=C2=A0 If the path were explicit defined to egre= ss PE and was 7 hops from ingress to egress then transport would be 6.=C2= =A0 And if L3 vpn service sid was signaled that would be 1 vpn label. =C2= =A0

=C2=A0

Let me know if I have that right. =C2=A0

=C2=A0

In Nats scenario for IPv6 he has 3 vpnv6 labels. =C2= =A0

=C2=A0

Why is that? =C2=A0

=C2=A0

With both SR-MPLS and SRv6 the L3 vpn AFI/SAFI MBGP = services overlay single label sits on top off SR as if does today with MPLS= so why 3 vpn labels.

=C2=A0

So with this draft with BGP-LS and BMI-MSD you can f= lood into the IGP the SID depth so all the nodes along the SR-TE path don= =E2=80=99t go over the maximum which would result in an error.

=C2=A0

If you set your MTU high enough in the core like 921= 6, does that overcome the SID depth issues with SR-TE?

=C2=A0

Warm=C2=A0regards,

=C2=A0

Gyan

=C2=A0

On Sat, Dec 14, 2019 at 2:43 AM Nat Kao <lekao@pyxisworks.org= > wrote:

Hi, Jeff.

=C2=A0

Thanks for the BMI-MSD reference. If I understand co= rrectly:

=C2=A0

BMI-MSD =3D Transport Label Depth + Service Label De= pth

Only former can be utilized by SR-TE policies.

=C2=A0

Currently do we have any method to determine the com= position of BMI?

We need to know the transport label depth when doing= service route per-destination steering.

=C2=A0

This problem arises when trying to steer a plain IPv= 4 route and a VPN service route into the same SR-TE policy that exceeds the= transport label depth of the service route. I'm trying to figure out t= he standard behavior in this case since the headend we use currently produc= es some interesting results.

=C2=A0

Regards,

Nat.

=C2=A0

On Sat, Dec 14, 2019 at 2:42 AM Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@g= mail.com> wrote:

Hi Nat,

=C2=A0

Currently defined MSD types are:=C2=A0=

1: BMI

2: ERLD

=C2=A0

Specifically to BMI:

Base MPLS Imposition MSD (BMI-MSD) signals the total= number of MPLS=C2=A0labels that can be imposed, including all service/tran= sport/special=C2=A0labels.

The answer to your question is 6

=C2=A0

Cheers,

Jeff

On Dec 13, 2019, 3:42 AM -0800, Nat Kao <lekao@pyxisworks.org= >, wrote:

Hello, SPRING WG.<= /u>

How do we deal with an SR-TE policy headend with dif= ferent MSDs for different types of traffic?

For example, a headend H can impose:
6 transport labels for plain IPv4 packets;
5 transport labels + 1 IPv6 ExpNull label for plain IPv6 packets;=

3 transport labels=C2=A0+ 3 VPN=C2=A0 labels for VPN= packets.

=C2=A0

a) For a plain IPv4 route R4 and a VPN route Rv both= steered into the SR-TE policy P1 with SID list <S1, S2, S3, S4, S5>,= what will H perform in this situation?
b) What is the MSD of H? 6, 5 or 3?

=C2=A0

Thanks,

Nat.

_______________________________________________
spring mailing list
spring@ietf.org = https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring

_______________________________________________
spring mailing list
spring@ietf.org = https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring

--

Gyan S. Mishra<= u>

IT Network Engineering= & Technology=C2=A0

Verizon Communications= =C2=A0Inc. (VZ)

13101 Columbia Pike FDC1 3rd Floor

Silver Spring, MD 2090= 4

United States

Phone:= =C2=A0301 502-1347

Email:= =C2=A0gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com<= u>

= www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies-consultant=

=C2=A0

_______________________________________________
spring mailing list
spring@ietf.org = https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring

_______________________________________________
spring mailing list
spring@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
--

Gyan S. Mishra

IT Network Engineering & Technology=C2=A0

Verizon Communications=C2=A0Inc. (VZ)

13101 Columbia Pik= e FDC1 3rd Floor

Silver Spring, MD 20904

United StatesPhone:=C2=A0301 502-1347

Email:=C2=A0gyan.s.mis= hra@verizon.com

www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies-consul= tant


_______________________________________________
spring mailing list
spring@ietf.org = https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
--

Gyan S. Mishra

IT Network Engineering & Technology=C2=A0

Verizon Communications=C2=A0Inc. (VZ)

13101 Columbia Pike FDC1 3rd Flo= or

Silver Spring, MD 20904

United StatesPhone:=C2=A0301 502-1347

Email:=C2=A0gyan.s.mis= hra@verizon.com

www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies-consul= tant


--
<= div dir=3D"ltr">

Gyan S. Mishra

IT Networ= k Engineering & Technology=C2=A0=

Verizon Communications=C2=A0Inc. (VZ)=

13101 Columbia Pike FDC1 3rd Floor

=

Silver Spring, MD 20904

United States<= span style=3D"color:rgb(80,0,80);background-image:initial;background-positi= on:initial;background-repeat:initial">

Phone:=C2=A0301 502-1347

Email:=C2=A0gyan.s.mishra@verizon.= com

www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies-co= nsultant


--000000000000d5bf36059a051788-- From nobody Thu Dec 19 00:44:22 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D383120144 for ; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 00:44:20 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.331 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.331 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 020dkMRWaH1o for ; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 00:44:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp3-g21.free.fr (smtp3-g21.free.fr [IPv6:2a01:e0c:1:1599::12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B9EC1120131 for ; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 00:44:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from [IPv6:2a01:e35:2e59:ce10::b4cc:8eb9] (unknown [IPv6:2a01:e35:2e59:ce10::b4cc:8eb9]) by smtp3-g21.free.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82A0E13F80A for ; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 09:44:16 +0100 (CET) To: spring@ietf.org References: From: Alexandre Petrescu Message-ID: <8f5607c9-645a-ea88-e2a7-a4bed8206fc8@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2019 09:44:16 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] 64-bit locators X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2019 08:44:21 -0000 Le 19/12/2019 à 00:13, Mark Smith a écrit : [...] > VLSM [variable length subnet mask] is fundamentally hard, We need VLSM in other places too, such as in ULA prefixes fd and fc. I think it is indeed a difficult to grasp concept, but it is there for growth. Alex > > Regards, > Mark. > > __ > > In this case, we should probably change the document to reflect > implemented behavior.____ > > __ __ > > >                                                                     Ron____ > > __ __ > > > Juniper Business Use Only > > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > > > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > From nobody Thu Dec 19 01:56:35 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69F99120219 for ; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 01:56:26 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=raszuk.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6dS8BnDhLZga for ; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 01:56:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qk1-x731.google.com (mail-qk1-x731.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::731]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CE82112011C for ; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 01:56:23 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qk1-x731.google.com with SMTP id t129so4121796qke.10 for ; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 01:56:23 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=raszuk.net; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=z31MsUEq7+nid4YBoVVefDlXbCXF2TcENkuW856KsHk=; b=ULTYHImRn5uOEMdG2CBqDl73JotYRnZQGJ+89nala+TPOsImDkA4x8XC1V+sEMe9gH wNFYg4nK7Jhr/PQL00/WjOAHqDvRCBDRkVnm3w1qxc3KaFkwkH0szeDrH41JqHSeQVNY zUtxPgSps9ouLAcwpAmL1Ch+oOL+XyuTpMjijmsPT5DtNnn+HlySVUt5BJY8jUunSbqC L4FA+aC16iyLM7pnRrOBdKtD8Gt+i7l3Nk2VDvVSYtdvTfc40YRN2UzkioplODGfu4Sg hKaAOiz0hxoBBuxZvqs8wQlmuqYXi6z+3kxB3P2VPyiBK8UdBfUGq3bIiYpem+fH2qNI +GRQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=z31MsUEq7+nid4YBoVVefDlXbCXF2TcENkuW856KsHk=; b=l2tGDw4wS8WclGk4bkB2cyMkWK7Zx9JUqwLmzwDYZcZKnEp245QoHwhKw1UJIr851v sWkTg5KJwmFn1bxTm3p/mbMpXbylZp+UJVc05Xud8pMlAa9wzYY8MavoNyc8f80Rx0NV t3Llon8hxcdP4ZueUT2t2U7UuMyG8nsk3jmtR1+YL4PZ0pk+usTGHJuTq4xPUx93K+VW WfZfnoDsBJwLPmA+FmjfJiFnreQJpMBoslhJfRW22Z3yc/CwOVa/UHDFUaYQtfykK905 s1wVwhhSHOlO6+O6EFlDaZCLsNURFNwdI2Rf5c4Ow0BtyMsAlTYEJKJWMl/dVI6b0g7M x7Mw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUZBU2nseXazkh+ty43rx1Llf6wG9BJSxtmkFXwoV2keGtJ07ny eCza2XD3jUmgfQteMNLd91jXi5HEsKS47c1hmIoPrw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzSUwXtWzFRm3UlgP/xfip0jlKxqk3KhPF9V26zEq1RlYRmGCDhpwvlTNpkMdYuwauy/5k/MPqAFL91Z/0ras8= X-Received: by 2002:ae9:ed53:: with SMTP id c80mr6903082qkg.445.1576749382677; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 01:56:22 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <15bc440b-1dbc-0930-137f-f016ca527c2c@joelhalpern.com> <8FAF234D-B5C9-42C7-B483-F57C4ECB349F@cisco.com> <6c3eabf3-410d-ecb6-324f-967544b29a30@joelhalpern.com> <95afdc48-b88a-ab1f-f51f-13193ba5dc1c@joelhalpern.com> <8F662D6A-1720-4D31-AEB8-6A3F7E40E996@cisco.com> <13540a0f-a653-2e52-d253-062b647454d7@joelhalpern.com> In-Reply-To: <13540a0f-a653-2e52-d253-062b647454d7@joelhalpern.com> From: Robert Raszuk Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2019 10:56:14 +0100 Message-ID: To: "Joel M. Halpern" Cc: "Zafar Ali (zali)" , 6man WG , SPRING WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000daca98059a0b9246" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] 6man w.g. last call for - END.OTP X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2019 09:56:26 -0000 --000000000000daca98059a0b9246 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Joel, > However, there is no defined behavior that I know of that can make use > of this timestamp. Not sure how to read that statement. Are you expecting IETF draft to tell vendor that computing delta of N values is needed ? Or is IETF draft needed to tell packet analyzers to evaluate the quality of the path based on packets timestamps ? Yes routers may never be involved in such processing, but other network monitoring components do. Sure current networking in this regard is in stone ages, but there are real efforts and working code which goes beyond that already in place. Example: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-data-08 So there is huge value in defining packet timestamping in all oam documents IETF produces these days and it would be rather disservice to remove such important option. Thx, r. On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 1:45 AM Joel M. Halpern wrote= : > If I am reading the draft correctly, the difference between END.OP and > END.OTP is that an internal process is to attach in some internal > location a timestamp to the packet. In the abstract, I understand why > such cna be useful. > > However, there is no defined behavior that I know of that can make use > of this timestamp. Until such a behavior is defined, what is the value > in defining the END.OTP behavior? (Taken in the extreme, until there is > such a definition, any implementation which treated END.OTP as END.OP > would seem to be indistinguishable from proper operation in terms of > behavior on the wire.) > > Yours, > Joel > > On 12/18/2019 7:01 PM, Zafar Ali (zali) wrote: > > Hi Joel, > > > > Thanks for your review. > > > > The processing details were embedded in the Section 4. > > > > We brought them up in the Section 3 and also added additional normative > > language in Section 4. > > > > We have been maintaining the latest version of the draft in the Github. > > > > However, we also posted the latest diffs, which addresses your comments > > as follows: > > > > * In the new revision, we have added normative text at the beginning > > of 3.1.1 where O-bit is defined. > > * Sections 3.3 and 3.4 adds normative texts for OAM SIDs. > > * 4.1.2 and 4.2.2 further adds additional normative text for Ping and > > traceroute use-cases, respectively. > > > > Latest version is kept in the Github and also uploaded as > > https://www.ietf.org/staging/draft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6-oam-03.txt. > > > > Thanks > > > > Regards =E2=80=A6 Zafar > > > > *From: *"Joel M. Halpern" > > *Date: *Thursday, December 5, 2019 at 10:01 PM > > *To: *"Zafar Ali (zali)" , 6man WG , > > SPRING WG > > *Subject: *Re: 6man w.g. last call for > > > > Sorry, minor typo. SRH, not NSH, in the 4th paragraph. > > > > Joel > > > > On 12/5/2019 9:42 PM, Joel M. Halpern wrote: > > > > The normative behavior for the bits in various places says that the > > > > packet is punted to the control process. In and of itself, that is > > fine. > > > > However, in order for that to be useful, the control process has to > > know > > > > what to do with the packet when it gets there. In the classic case > of > > > > router redirect, this is coupled with definition of various content > to > > > > be processed by the router control logic. > > > > In the case of this document, there is no normative definition of > what > > > > the control process is to do with the packet. And particularly > > since in > > > > many of the cases described the packet that is punted still has an > SRH, > > > > normal packet processing would simply reach the same "punt" step. > With > > > > nowhere to punt it. > > > > You asssume in the examples that some forms of parsing that bypass > the > > > > NSH will take place. But processing does not take place by instinc= t > or > > > > magic. It takes place because we write RFCs that describe what has > to > > > > happen. Without some definition of the required parsing, and I > believe > > > > (although I am guessing due to the lack of description) we also nee= d > > > > some normative description of what the control process is required > > to do. > > > > Note that in most OAM, we define the behavior that is required, and > > then > > > > indicate where it is permitted to use the control plane to achieve > it. > > > > This results in a clear specification, and implementation > flexibility. > > > > Yours, > > > > Joel > > > > On 12/5/2019 9:34 PM, Zafar Ali (zali) wrote: > > > > Hi Joel, > > > > I did not understand your comment. > > > > Can you please point to specific text in the draft for which th= e > > draft > > > > needs to define normative behavior for the "node punt processor > > look > > > > past the SRH and make determinations based on the content."? > > > > Thanks > > > > Regards =E2=80=A6 Zafar > > > > *From: *ipv6 > > on behalf of "Joel M. Halpern" > > > > > > > > > *Date: *Wednesday, December 4, 2019 at 4:37 PM > > > > *To: *Ole Troan > >, 6man WG > >, > > > > SPRING WG > > > > > *Subject: *Re: 6man w.g. last call for > > > > > > I re-read this draft, and I am afraid it is currently > > under-specified. > > > > In order for the various examples to work, there is assumed > > behavior by > > > > the processor to which packets are punted. I could not find > > where this > > > > normative behavior is described explicitly. It appears that th= e > > > > behavior requires that the node "punt processor" look past the > > SRH and > > > > make determinations based on the content. This needs to be > > described > > > > explicitly. And it needs some discussion of why it is > legitimate to > > > > look past the SRH when the SRH does not show SL=3D0. > > > > Yours, > > > > Joel > > > > On 12/4/2019 3:53 PM, Ole Troan wrote: > > > > Hello, > > > > As agreed in the working group session in Singapore, > this > > > > message starts a new two week 6MAN Working Group Last Call > on > > > > advancing: > > > > Title : Operations, Administration, and Maintenanc= e > > (OAM) in > > > > Segment Routing Networks with IPv6 Data plane (SRv6) > > > > Author : Z. Ali, C. Filsfils, S. Matsushima, D. > > Voyer, M. Chen > > > > Filename : draft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6-oam-02 > > > > Pages : 23 > > > > Date : 2019-11-20 > > > > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6-oam/ > > > > as a Proposed Standard. > > > > Substantive comments and statements of support for > > publishing this > > > > document should be directed to the mailing list. > > > > Editorial suggestions can be sent to the author. This last > > call will > > > > end on the 18th of December 2019. > > > > To improve document quality and ensure that bugs are caugh= t > > as early > > > > as possible, we would require at least > > > > two reviewers to do a complete review of the > > document. Please let > > > > the chairs know if you are willing to be a reviewer. > > > > The last call will be forwarded to the spring working > > group, with > > > > discussion directed to the ipv6 list. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Bob & Ole, 6man co-chairs > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > > > > ipv6@ietf.org > > > > Administrative Requests: > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > > > > ipv6@ietf.org > > > > Administrative Requests: > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------= - > > > > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > > > > ipv6@ietf.org > > > > Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------= - > > > > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > --000000000000daca98059a0b9246 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Joel,

>=C2=A0 However, there is no defined behavior that I know of that c= an make use=C2=A0
>=C2=A0of this timestamp.=C2=A0 = =C2=A0

Not sure how to read that s= tatement. Are you expecting IETF draft to tell vendor that computing=C2=A0d= elta of N values is needed ? Or is IETF draft needed to tell packet analyze= rs to evaluate the quality of the path based on packets timestamps ? Yes ro= uters may never be involved in such processing, but other network monitorin= g components do.=C2=A0

Sure current ne= tworking in this regard is in stone ages, but there are real efforts and wo= rking code which goes beyond that already in place. Example: https://tools.ietf.o= rg/html/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-data-08

So there = is huge value in=C2=A0defining=C2=A0packet timestamping in all oam=C2=A0doc= uments IETF produces these days and it would be rather disservice to remove= such important option.=C2=A0

Thx,
r.


On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 1:45 AM Joel M. Halpern <= ;jmh@joelhalpern.com> wrote:<= br>
If I am reading = the draft correctly, the difference between END.OP and
END.OTP is that an internal process is to attach in some internal
location a timestamp to the packet.=C2=A0 In the abstract, I understand why=
such cna be useful.

However, there is no defined behavior that I know of that can make use
of this timestamp.=C2=A0 Until such a behavior is defined, what is the valu= e
in defining the END.OTP behavior?=C2=A0 (Taken in the extreme, until there = is
such a definition, any implementation which treated END.OTP as END.OP
would seem to be indistinguishable from proper operation in terms of
behavior on the wire.)

Yours,
Joel

On 12/18/2019 7:01 PM, Zafar Ali (zali) wrote:
> Hi Joel,
>
> Thanks for your review.
>
> The processing details were embedded in the Section 4.
>
> We brought them up in the Section 3 and also added additional normativ= e
> language in Section 4.
>
> We have been maintaining the latest version of the draft in the Github= .
>
> However, we also posted the latest diffs, which addresses your comment= s
> as follows:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0* In the new revision, we have added normative text at the= beginning
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0of 3.1.1 where O-bit is defined.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0* Sections 3.3 and 3.4 adds normative texts for OAM SIDs.<= br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0* 4.1.2 and 4.2.2 further adds additional normative text f= or Ping and
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0traceroute use-cases, respectively.
>
> Latest version is kept in the Github and also uploaded as
> https://www.ietf.org/staging= /draft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6-oam-03.txt.
>
> Thanks
>
> Regards =E2=80=A6 Zafar
>
> *From: *"Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>
> *Date: *Thursday, December 5, 2019 at 10:01 PM
> *To: *"Zafar Ali (zali)" <zali@cisco.com>, 6man WG <ipv6@ietf.org>,
> SPRING WG <spr= ing@ietf.org>
> *Subject: *Re: 6man w.g. last call for <draft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6= -oam>
>
> Sorry, minor typo.=C2=A0=C2=A0SRH, not NSH, in the 4th paragraph.
>
> Joel
>
> On 12/5/2019 9:42 PM, Joel M. Halpern wrote:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0The normative behavior for the bits in various plac= es says that the
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0packet is punted to the control process.=C2=A0 In a= nd of itself, that is
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0fine.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0However, in order for that to be useful, the contro= l process has to
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0know
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0what to do with the packet when it gets there.=C2= =A0 In the classic case of
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0router redirect, this is coupled with definition of= various content to
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0be processed by the router control logic.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0In the case of this document, there is no normative= definition of what
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0the control process is to do with the packet.=C2=A0= And particularly
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0since in
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0many of the cases described the packet that is punt= ed still has an SRH,
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0normal packet processing would simply reach the sam= e "punt" step.=C2=A0 With
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0nowhere to punt it.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0You asssume in the examples that some forms of pars= ing that bypass the
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0NSH will take place.=C2=A0 But processing does not = take place by instinct or
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0magic.=C2=A0 It takes place because we write RFCs t= hat describe what has to
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0happen.=C2=A0 Without some definition of the requir= ed parsing, and I believe
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0(although I am guessing due to the lack of descript= ion) we also need
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0some normative description of what the control proc= ess is required
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0to do.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Note that in most OAM, we define the behavior that = is required, and
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0then
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0indicate where it is permitted to use the control p= lane to achieve it.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0This results in a clear specification, and implemen= tation flexibility.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Yours,
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Joel
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0On 12/5/2019 9:34 PM, Zafar Ali (zali) wrote:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Hi Joel,
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0I did not understand your comment. >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Can you please point to specific text= in the draft for which the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0draft
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0needs to define normative behavior fo= r the "node punt processor
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0look
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0past the SRH and make determinations = based on the content."?
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Thanks
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Regards =E2=80=A6 Zafar
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0*From: *ipv6 <ipv6-bounces@ietf.org
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:ipv6-bounces@ietf.org>> on behal= f of "Joel M. Halpern"
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<jmh@joelhalpern.com <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com>> >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0*Date: *Wednesday, December 4, 2019 a= t 4:37 PM
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0*To: *Ole Troan <otroan@employees.org
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:otroan@employees.org>>, 6man WG &= lt;ipv6@ietf.org
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:ipv6@ietf.org>>,
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0SPRING WG <spring@ietf.org <mailto:spring@ietf.org>>
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0*Subject: *Re: 6man w.g. last call fo= r
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<draft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6-oam&g= t;
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0I re-read this draft, and I am afraid= it is currently
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0under-specified.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0In order for the various examples to = work, there is assumed
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0behavior by
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0the processor to which packets are pu= nted.=C2=A0=C2=A0I could not find
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0where this
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0normative behavior is described expli= citly.=C2=A0=C2=A0It appears that the
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0behavior requires that the node "= ;punt processor" look past the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0SRH and
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0make determinations based on the cont= ent.=C2=A0=C2=A0This needs to be
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0described
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0explicitly.=C2=A0=C2=A0And it needs s= ome discussion of why it is legitimate to
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0look past the SRH when the SRH does n= ot show SL=3D0.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Yours,
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Joel
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0On 12/4/2019 3:53 PM, Ole Troan wrote= :
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Hello,
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0As agreed in the working group session in Singapore, this >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 message starts a = new two week 6MAN Working Group Last Call on
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0advancing:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Title=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0: Operations, Administration, a= nd Maintenance
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0(OAM) in
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Segment Routing N= etworks with IPv6 Data plane (SRv6)
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Author=C2=A0=C2=A0 : Z. Ali, C. Filsfils, S. Matsushima, D.<= br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Voyer, M. Chen
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Filename : draft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6-oam-02
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Pages=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0: 23
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Date=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 : 2019-11-20
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6-oam/ >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 as a Proposed Sta= ndard.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Substantive comme= nts and statements of support for
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0publishing this
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 document should b= e directed to the mailing list.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Editorial suggest= ions can be sent to the author. This last
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0call will
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 end on the 18th o= f December 2019.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 To improve docume= nt quality and ensure that bugs are caught
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0as early
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 as possible, we w= ould require at least
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 two reviewers to = do a complete review of the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0document.=C2=A0=C2=A0Please let
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 the chairs know i= f you are willing to be a reviewer.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 The last call wil= l be forwarded to the spring working
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0group, with
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 discussion direct= ed to the ipv6 list.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Thanks,
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Bob & Ole, 6m= an co-chairs
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0-------------------------------------= -------------------------------
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 IETF IPv6 working= group mailing list
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0ipv6@ietf.org <mailto:ipv6@ietf.org> <mailto:ipv6@ietf.org>
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Administrative Re= quests:
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://www.ietf.org= /mailman/listinfo/ipv6
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0-------------------------------------= -------------------------------
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0-------------------------------------= -------------------------------
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0IETF IPv6 working group mailing list<= br> >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0ipv6@ietf.org <mailto:ipv6@ietf.org> <mailto:ipv6@ietf.org>
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0-------------------------------------= -------------------------------
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0---------------------------------------------------= -----------------
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0IETF IPv6 working group mailing list
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= ipv6@ietf.org <mailto:ipv6@ietf.org>
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Administrative Requests: https://w= ww.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0---------------------------------------------------= -----------------
>

_______________________________________________
spring mailing list
spring@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
--000000000000daca98059a0b9246-- From nobody Thu Dec 19 03:46:18 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietf.org Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 027DD1200F7; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 03:46:11 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: spring@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.113.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: spring@ietf.org Message-ID: <157675597092.27417.15494441164136615153@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2019 03:46:11 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [spring] I-D Action: draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-07.txt X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2019 11:46:11 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Source Packet Routing in Networking WG of the IETF. Title : SRv6 Network Programming Authors : Clarence Filsfils Pablo Camarillo Garvia John Leddy Daniel Voyer Satoru Matsushima Zhenbin Li Filename : draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-07.txt Pages : 38 Date : 2019-12-19 Abstract: The SRv6 Network Programming framework enables a network operator or an application to specify a packet packet processing program by encoding a sequence of instructions in the IPv6 packet header. Each instruction is implemented on one or several nodes in the network and identified by an SRv6 Segment Identifier in the packet. This document defines the SRv6 Network Programming concept and specifies the base set of SRv6 behaviors that enables the creation of interoperable overlays with underlay optimization (Service Level Agreements). The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-07 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-07 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-07 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Thu Dec 19 03:46:53 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 084291200F7 for ; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 03:46:52 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.497 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.497 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com header.b=IbZpJ+c/; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.onmicrosoft.com header.b=BFbWr0DJ Received: from mail.ietf.org 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19 Dec 2019 11:48:14 +0000 From: "Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)" To: "Wang, Weibin (NSB - CN/Shanghai)" , "spring@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [spring] USD/USP question in draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-06.txt Thread-Index: AQHVtmIx6NVBXdpUB0ypaBRlyGuOeQ== Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2019 11:48:14 +0000 Message-ID: <872C2640-EA42-4B63-AD52-AFFC59992411@cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-GB X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/10.20.0.191208 authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=pcamaril@cisco.com; x-originating-ip: [2001:420:44da:1250:2dac:e1f3:236d:5679] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 72644c1a-86a5-4631-a34f-08d7847954f4 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: MWHPR11MB1262: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:10000; x-forefront-prvs: 0256C18696 x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; 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2019 11:52:49 +0000 From: "Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)" To: Alexandre Petrescu , "spring@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [spring] Question about SRv6 Insert function Thread-Index: AQHVXxis/gF6F9KunkOxVqkDbflgtacT7YMwgAFf0ICAA0V6AIABQWiAgANe6oCAlbReAIABVZmAgAAm8oCAAOg1gIAABUaAgAEzGwCABvg3gIADHtWR Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2019 11:52:49 +0000 Message-ID: References: <3e31873a-278a-2154-0e71-4d820bba323d@gont.com.ar> <4012D854-2F10-4476-951D-FFFE73C5083C@gmail.com> <28214_1567694772_5D711FB4_28214_238_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48BFA9F3@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <129bbb32-0f14-b799-430c-8f76fb6b1279@gont.com.ar> <1824_1575998223_5DEFD30F_1824_112_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D24EBD@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <4384c08a-65f5-dbfb-85c7-8365feba9662@gmail.com> <11783_1576056453_5DF0B685_11783_221_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D261E9@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <260f6f3c-e3cc-e174-1782-456df7cded86@gmail.com> 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ICAgIFRoYXQgd29ya3MuDQogICAgVGhlIGNvcnJlY3QgbGFuZ3VhZ2UgZm9yIHRoZSBsYXN0IGJs b2NrIGlzICJSZXNlcnZlZC4gTm90IHRvIGJlIGFsbG9jYXRlZC4iDQogICAgKE5vdGUgZm9yIHlv dTogYSBmdXR1cmUgc3RhbmRhcmRzIHRyYWNrIGRvY3VtZW50IGNhbiBjaGFuZ2UgdGhlIGFsbG9j YXRpb24gcG9saWN5IGZvciB0aGF0IGJsb2NrIG1lYW5pbmcgaXQgY2FuIHRoZW4gYmUgdXNlZC4p DQoNClBDOiBUaGFua3MgZm9yIHRoZSBjb3JyZWN0aW9uLiBGaXhlZC4gVGhhbmtzLg0KICAgIA0K ICAgIA0KDQo= From nobody Thu Dec 19 05:33:29 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC85E12086C for ; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 05:33:25 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.631 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.631 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665, 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(Postfix) with ESMTP id E5C7C2042A7; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 14:33:18 +0100 (CET) Received: from [10.8.35.150] (is154594.intra.cea.fr [10.8.35.150]) by muguet1-sys.intra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id xBJDXIrg013915; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 14:33:18 +0100 To: "Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)" , "spring@ietf.org" References: <3e31873a-278a-2154-0e71-4d820bba323d@gont.com.ar> <4012D854-2F10-4476-951D-FFFE73C5083C@gmail.com> <28214_1567694772_5D711FB4_28214_238_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48BFA9F3@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <129bbb32-0f14-b799-430c-8f76fb6b1279@gont.com.ar> <1824_1575998223_5DEFD30F_1824_112_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D24EBD@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <4384c08a-65f5-dbfb-85c7-8365feba9662@gmail.com> <11783_1576056453_5DF0B685_11783_221_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D261E9@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <260f6f3c-e3cc-e174-1782-456df7cded86@gmail.com> <8683D672-1A59-4253-AC46-14DD2D8C8B14@cisco.com> <35c4119f-1d46-0220-d7e4-168b27beb782@gmail.com> From: Alexandre Petrescu Message-ID: <3b78c6b0-1153-b8ad-6b97-84c91ee915c5@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2019 14:33:18 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Question about SRv6 Insert function X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2019 13:33:28 -0000 Le 19/12/2019 à 12:52, Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril) a écrit : > Hi Alex. > > Please see inline. > > Many thanks, > > Pablo. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > *From:*Alexandre Petrescu *Sent:* > Monday, December 16, 2019 3:31 PM *To:* Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril) > ; ipv6@ietf.org *Subject:* Re: > [spring] Question about SRv6 Insert function > > Hi, SPRINGers, > > This is my first post to this list. > > This is about draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-06 more > precisely the T.Encaps section 5.2. > > Le 11/12/2019 à 21:05, Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril) a écrit : >> Alex, >> >> The precise definition T.Encaps is done in section 5.1 [5.2 now] of >> draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-06. If you have any >> comment on such definition please let me know -on a separate thread >> and directed to SPRING mailer-. > > Thank you for the reply. > > Please make the T.Encaps part of the draft easier for me to read, > e.g.: -expand what it means 'S01'; is it 'Step 01', like in BASIC > programming language? > > PC: Same format as in other documents (e.g. SRH). What is the other document SRH? > -clarify that the original packet in transit is not modified upon > transition (modulo the Hop Limit field and the Segments Left field if > present); new packet is created to carry the original packet - yes. > > PC: I have added a paragraph in the latest version of the draft to > capture your point. See rev07. Many thanks. I think you mean that you added this paragraph: > The T.Encaps received packet is encapsulated unmodified (with the > exception of the TTL or Hop Limit that is decremented as described in > [RFC2473]). I think it is good to say the packet is encapsulated unmodified. Indeed the Hop Limit is the sole exception. I think the TTL should not be mentioned. (side note: each IPv4 occurence should be dropped from everywhere in the document now :-) > -clarify what it means 'a packet (A, S2)(S3, S2, S1; SL=1)'; because > it is confusing in several ways; (A,S2) invites to think it is src > and dst addresses, but their place is switched (the normal order is > Source, Destination). S in 'S2' might mean a Source Address but > also might mean a Segment ID, or a Destination address. Confusion > should be avoided, at least in my mind. > > PC: This is explained in the terminology section of the draft (with > a detailed example). It is indeed in the terminology section. It clarifies many things to me. I am still left with the question: is a Segment Identifier an IPv6 address? (all the 128bits of it). I cant find an answer neither in this I-D neither in its reference RFC8402 "Segment Routing" terminology section. This is important to know, because in below the text says a destination address is an S1 (DA=S1) and it also says that S1 is part of a segment list. In a destination address field one cant have something else than an IPv6 address. But a segment identifier could be something else than an IPv6 address, if so it wanted. (somewhere else people talk about 'locator' being a 64bit value, I am not sure). About my initial worry - now T.Encaps cahnged its name into H.Encaps, right? It seems to not modify packets in transit, but to encapsulate them, which is ok. > Node N receives two packets P1=(A, B2) and P2=(A,B2)(B3, B2, B1; > SL=1). B2 is neither a local address nor SID of N. > > N steers the transit packets P1 and P2 into an SR Policy with a > Source Address T and a Segment list . > > The H.Encaps transit encapsulation behavior is defined as follows: > > S01. Push an IPv6 header with its own SRH (S3, S2, S1; SL=2) > S02. Set outer IPv6 SA = T and outer IPv6 DA = S1 > S03. Set outer payload length, traffic class and flow label > S04. Update the Next-Header value 'Update' or rather 'create'? I hope it is the next-header value of the outer IPv6 header; this is the first time to put something inside, so it is rather a creation. 'Updating' makes think that maybe the next header value of the inner (original) packet is updated from value x to y. Or? > S05. Decrement inner Hop Limit or TTL > S06. Submit the packet to the IPv6 module for transmission to S1 > > After the H.Encaps behavior, P1 and P2 respectively look like: > > - (T, S1) (S3, S2, S1; SL=2) (A, B2) > > - (T, S1) (S3, S2, S1; SL=2) (A, B2) (B3, B2, B1; SL=1) It looks ok - the P1 and P2 packets have not been modified in transit, but encapsulated. I wonder though about the 1 value for SL (SL=1) in P2 original and P2 transited. I wonder whether it should be decremented or not. I think it might complicated but I do not mind. 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boundary="_000_BN7PR05MB5699CFAEC4E5D3A8A308EADFAE520BN7PR05MB5699namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: d808e7f1-2d14-4638-dc92-08d7848ba0e6 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 19 Dec 2019 13:59:12.8380 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: Mhv+QGiEPQU9JATaBVcD1m//pIWjd/05l2ZX7X7NLUI6ISqvxeHXi1j21tLeMjC4uuGssWoAASiNEtFj+UEBpw== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN7PR05MB5732 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.95,18.0.572 definitions=2019-12-19_01:2019-12-17,2019-12-19 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_spam_notspam policy=outbound_spam score=0 suspectscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 clxscore=1015 priorityscore=1501 lowpriorityscore=0 impostorscore=0 adultscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-1910280000 definitions=main-1912190118 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] SRv6 Network Programming - ICMP Source Address Selection X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2019 13:59:18 -0000 --_000_BN7PR05MB5699CFAEC4E5D3A8A308EADFAE520BN7PR05MB5699namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Pablo, Can you provide a specific reference into draft-ietf-6man-segment-routing-h= eader? I can't find the answer to my question in there. = Ron Juniper Business Use Only From: Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril) Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2019 6:47 AM To: Ron Bonica ; spring@ietf.org Subject: Re: SRv6 Network Programming - ICMP Source Address Selection Ron, This is exactly the same as in the SRH. There is no text in draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming that changes= this. Cheers, Pablo. From: Ron Bonica > Date: Monday, 9 December 2019 at 23:48 To: "Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)" >, SPRING WG >, 6man <6man@ietf= .org> Subject: RE: SRv6 Network Programming - ICMP Source Address Selection Pablo, Section 2.2 of RFC 4443 offers two options. If you think that a SID is a un= icast address, the first option is applicable. If you think that a SID is n= ot a unicast address, the second option is applicable. Which did you choose? Ro= n Juniper Business Use Only From: Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril) > Sent: Monday, December 9, 2019 10:18 AM To: Ron Bonica >; SPRING WG= >; 6man <6man@ietf.org> Subject: Re: SRv6 Network Programming - ICMP Source Address Selection Ron, As you pointed out in your email, RFC4443 Section 2.2 is very clear about h= ow to select the source address. draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming does not change this. Thanks, Pablo. From: ipv6 > on behalf = of Ron Bonica > Date: Friday, 6 December 2019 at 17:40 To: SPRING WG >, 6man <6man@ietf.or= g> Subject: SRv6 Network Programming - ICMP Source Address Selection Authors, When an SRv6 node sends an ICMP message, how does it select the ICMP messag= e's source address? Section 2.2 of RFC 4443 offers two options. If you think that a SID is a un= icast address, the first option is applicable. If you think that a SID is n= ot a unicast address, the second option is applicable. Ron Juniper Business Use Only --_000_BN7PR05MB5699CFAEC4E5D3A8A308EADFAE520BN7PR05MB5699namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Pablo,

 

Can you provide a specific reference into draft-ietf= -6man-segment-routing-header? I can’t find the answer to my question = in there.

 

        &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;     Ron

 

 

 

 

Juniper Business Use Only

From: Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril) <pcamaril= @cisco.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2019 6:47 AM
To: Ron Bonica <rbonica@juniper.net>; spring@ietf.org
Subject: Re: SRv6 Network Programming - ICMP Source Address Selectio= n

 

Ron,

 

This is exactly the same as in = the SRH.

There is no text in draft-ietf-= spring-srv6-network-programming that changes this.

 

Cheers,

Pablo.

 

From: Ron Bonica <rbonica@juniper.net>
Date: Monday, 9 December 2019 at 23:48
To: "Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)" <pcamaril@cisco.com>, SPRING WG <spring@ietf.org>, 6man <6man@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: SRv6 Network Programming - ICMP Source Address Selectio= n

 

Pablo,

 

Section 2.2 of RFC 4443 o= ffers two options. If you think that a SID is a unicast address, the first = option is applicable. If you think that a SID is not a unicast address, the= second option is applicable.

 

Which did you choose?

 

    &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;      Ron

 

 

Juniper Business Use Only

From: Pablo Camari= llo (pcamaril) <pcamaril@cisco.com= >
Sent: Monday, December 9, 2019 10:18 AM
To: Ron Bonica <rbonica@ju= niper.net>; SPRING WG <spring@= ietf.org>; 6man <6man@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: SRv6 Network Programming - ICMP Source Address Selectio= n

 

Ron,=

&nbs= p;

As y= ou pointed out in your email, RFC4443 Section 2.2 is very clear about how t= o select the source address.

draf= t-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming does not change this.

&nbs= p;

Than= ks,

Pabl= o.

&nbs= p;

From: ipv6 <ipv6-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Ron Bonica <= rbonica=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>
Date: Friday, 6 December 2019 at 17:40
To: SPRING WG <spring@ietf.org>, 6man <= ;6man@ietf.org>
Subject: SRv6 Network Programming - ICMP Source Address Selection

 

Authors,

 

When an SRv6 node sends = an ICMP message, how does it select the ICMP message’s source address= ?

 

Section 2.2 of RFC 4443 = offers two options. If you think that a SID is a unicast address, the first= option is applicable. If you think that a SID is not a unicast address, th= e second option is applicable.

 

    =             &nb= sp;            =             &nb= sp;            =             &nb= sp;  Ron

 =

Juniper Business Us= e Only

--_000_BN7PR05MB5699CFAEC4E5D3A8A308EADFAE520BN7PR05MB5699namp_-- From nobody Thu Dec 19 06:07:43 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9094D120810 for ; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 06:07:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.632 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.632 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VsaF9MovZzYe for ; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 06:07:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from oxalide-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (oxalide-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr [132.168.224.13]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3C773120818 for ; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 06:07:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by oxalide-sys.extra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id xBJE7XQA003613 for ; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 15:07:33 +0100 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id 20B942042CB for ; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 15:07:33 +0100 (CET) Received: from muguet1-smtp-out.intra.cea.fr (muguet1-smtp-out.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.12]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16BFF2021E0 for ; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 15:07:33 +0100 (CET) Received: from [10.8.35.150] (is154594.intra.cea.fr [10.8.35.150]) by muguet1-sys.intra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id xBJE7X9u006438 for ; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 15:07:33 +0100 To: spring@ietf.org References: <3e31873a-278a-2154-0e71-4d820bba323d@gont.com.ar> <4012D854-2F10-4476-951D-FFFE73C5083C@gmail.com> <28214_1567694772_5D711FB4_28214_238_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48BFA9F3@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <129bbb32-0f14-b799-430c-8f76fb6b1279@gont.com.ar> <1824_1575998223_5DEFD30F_1824_112_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D24EBD@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <4384c08a-65f5-dbfb-85c7-8365feba9662@gmail.com> <11783_1576056453_5DF0B685_11783_221_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D261E9@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <260f6f3c-e3cc-e174-1782-456df7cded86@gmail.com> <8683D672-1A59-4253-AC46-14DD2D8C8B14@cisco.com> <35c4119f-1d46-0220-d7e4-168b27beb782@gmail.com> <3b78c6b0-1153-b8ad-6b97-84c91ee915c5@gmail.com> From: Alexandre Petrescu Message-ID: <0c241920-36e7-2198-e956-f41f9251a7a4@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2019 15:07:32 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <3b78c6b0-1153-b8ad-6b97-84c91ee915c5@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] Question about SRv6 Insert function X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2019 14:07:41 -0000 Le 19/12/2019 à 14:33, Alexandre Petrescu a écrit : > > > Le 19/12/2019 à 12:52, Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril) a écrit : [...] >>    S05.   Decrement inner Hop Limit or TTL >>    S06.   Submit the packet to the IPv6 module for transmission to S1 >> >>    After the H.Encaps behavior, P1 and P2 respectively look like: P1 and P2 respectively dont look like that. They are encapsulated. These are new packets that are created. >>    - (T, S1) (S3, S2, S1; SL=2) (A, B2) >> >>    - (T, S1) (S3, S2, S1; SL=2) (A, B2) (B3, B2, B1; SL=1) The P1 and P2 are indeed not modified, they are encapsulated. But there are new packets that are shown there: P1` and P2` if you wish. After encapsulation one couldnt say that a packet looks like before. An encapsulated packet does not know what's happening to itself, and has no idea about its encapsulating header. Alex From nobody Thu Dec 19 06:49:41 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C4061200B8; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 06:49:39 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.997 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.997 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KBYzgoDw1tMc; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 06:49:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-lj1-x229.google.com (mail-lj1-x229.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AC51D12003E; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 06:49:35 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-lj1-x229.google.com with SMTP id z22so1719521ljg.1; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 06:49:35 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=kQBmVDMkGWSyXN1QpLV3BRCJhNxepEwNLFzwFuT8tpc=; b=BKk8KZDg1CqjZRGwPJCMaLQyxc6TNYzoR4pxbUlHw4RX2XQr4tH6O5HTGET5fk8FNc fQaDyDAg7MStzmsOlSBn9q9LP2IeWrY2ZxGteVocb+qFU77REMgtxW0c6+5FBCzs+/zt lyZVniHyg8tQZEz9eWr2gmdEt851Ryft7KdvnoAtJbLwXtGX058GD2Y1JI7WviOMeayb lwj5L6TOvXxA/BPkXZraswjyX/VpErBRTBAkizhGh0CQC4avQsA663cgcy7peuHN4F72 uALhP+ihwfJFoNaoXkNZB8gy5E+oU1Ou2mRFryyn/ybV2cV/1MHDo1OzOzGebGNwxAxz uuDw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=kQBmVDMkGWSyXN1QpLV3BRCJhNxepEwNLFzwFuT8tpc=; b=IIWG4Bo4145gI0aYEHM0RZaXN/KM1yYCCEbj1yi20d2mfJfNg5i0mHpu3JzlnIY2sD ITqvkpvU77zqtLeBJJlD7+I+83gfS6iZOUJMUoHDycinl6VH2bo1ebGPH/WibtdQdlSW bBRjofBpZSoJyoiUO6mXfJhHba5U3eqxHw45ZBdlTKC1qteFT0KQ2NKjVrm+KEuP5O4f 6Y7gu9gBcz8SFQTlNmA3I4TtHEB+HWCKxIqxNUsVljdfo6krGT7t4H+zncwTlPqQPb4i +nGX5U+ABBfCzZJmSpTWR+MGRkbGtcnAGAcdDk/09hDV/OPmQHAp1kHLEEvQQ9ZlznHY R1UA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXFQiPhiF5XlPa/LDlDqj5wzseAgDaj95hHQF8VtMU43oeN6TYl HM7Y/kX8c7d56Z/jppYPdvCCQgvtn1P1/tnEo/Q= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwpfYpRggu4pdDiDn85eIIGQ/jOglgWFpZBt/aNR5sKsuFSaY8kSszWYttHeHkiV9lK5J1cXJXlCvnLN7kK6to= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:6c06:: with SMTP id h6mr6032996ljc.246.1576766973762; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 06:49:33 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <15bc440b-1dbc-0930-137f-f016ca527c2c@joelhalpern.com> <8FAF234D-B5C9-42C7-B483-F57C4ECB349F@cisco.com> <6c3eabf3-410d-ecb6-324f-967544b29a30@joelhalpern.com> <95afdc48-b88a-ab1f-f51f-13193ba5dc1c@joelhalpern.com> <8F662D6A-1720-4D31-AEB8-6A3F7E40E996@cisco.com> <13540a0f-a653-2e52-d253-062b647454d7@joelhalpern.com> In-Reply-To: From: Greg Mirsky Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2019 06:49:23 -0800 Message-ID: To: Robert Raszuk Cc: "Joel M. Halpern" , 6man WG , SPRING WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000005d6438059a0fab5f" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] 6man w.g. last call for - END.OTP X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2019 14:49:40 -0000 --0000000000005d6438059a0fab5f Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Robert, could you please clarify your statement "there is huge value in defining packet timestamping in all oam documents IETF produces these days"? Is that applicable to Active OAM methods or to other OAM methodologies, including, Passive and Hybrid? If the timestamping operation is entirely local to a networking node is applied to a data flow, in other words, the timestamp value is not stored in the forwarded downstream data packet, which performance metric your expect to produce? Or is the expectation to use the Alternate Marking methodology, as described in RFC 8321, in combination with the local timestamping? If the product of the timestamping operation is stored in the data packet, then how is that different from what is already described in the iOAM draft you've referenced? I believe that iOAM already has defined a method to collect timestamps and the method to trigger timestamping described in the draft we're discussing is duplicating that. Would you agree? Regards, Greg On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 1:56 AM Robert Raszuk wrote: > Hi Joel, > > > However, there is no defined behavior that I know of that can make use > > of this timestamp. > > Not sure how to read that statement. Are you expecting IETF draft to tell > vendor that computing delta of N values is needed ? Or is IETF draft need= ed > to tell packet analyzers to evaluate the quality of the path based on > packets timestamps ? Yes routers may never be involved in such processing= , > but other network monitoring components do. > > Sure current networking in this regard is in stone ages, but there are > real efforts and working code which goes beyond that already in place. > Example: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-data-08 > > So there is huge value in defining packet timestamping in all > oam documents IETF produces these days and it would be rather disservice = to > remove such important option. > > Thx, > r. > > > On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 1:45 AM Joel M. Halpern > wrote: > >> If I am reading the draft correctly, the difference between END.OP and >> END.OTP is that an internal process is to attach in some internal >> location a timestamp to the packet. In the abstract, I understand why >> such cna be useful. >> >> However, there is no defined behavior that I know of that can make use >> of this timestamp. Until such a behavior is defined, what is the value >> in defining the END.OTP behavior? (Taken in the extreme, until there is >> such a definition, any implementation which treated END.OTP as END.OP >> would seem to be indistinguishable from proper operation in terms of >> behavior on the wire.) >> >> Yours, >> Joel >> >> On 12/18/2019 7:01 PM, Zafar Ali (zali) wrote: >> > Hi Joel, >> > >> > Thanks for your review. >> > >> > The processing details were embedded in the Section 4. >> > >> > We brought them up in the Section 3 and also added additional normativ= e >> > language in Section 4. >> > >> > We have been maintaining the latest version of the draft in the Github= .. >> > >> > However, we also posted the latest diffs, which addresses your comment= s >> > as follows: >> > >> > * In the new revision, we have added normative text at the beginning >> > of 3.1.1 where O-bit is defined. >> > * Sections 3.3 and 3.4 adds normative texts for OAM SIDs. >> > * 4.1.2 and 4.2.2 further adds additional normative text for Ping an= d >> > traceroute use-cases, respectively. >> > >> > Latest version is kept in the Github and also uploaded as >> > https://www.ietf.org/staging/draft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6-oam-03.txt. >> > >> > Thanks >> > >> > Regards =E2=80=A6 Zafar >> > >> > *From: *"Joel M. Halpern" >> > *Date: *Thursday, December 5, 2019 at 10:01 PM >> > *To: *"Zafar Ali (zali)" , 6man WG , >> > SPRING WG >> > *Subject: *Re: 6man w.g. last call for >> > >> > Sorry, minor typo. SRH, not NSH, in the 4th paragraph. >> > >> > Joel >> > >> > On 12/5/2019 9:42 PM, Joel M. Halpern wrote: >> > >> > The normative behavior for the bits in various places says that th= e >> > >> > packet is punted to the control process. In and of itself, that i= s >> > fine. >> > >> > However, in order for that to be useful, the control process has t= o >> > know >> > >> > what to do with the packet when it gets there. In the classic cas= e >> of >> > >> > router redirect, this is coupled with definition of various conten= t >> to >> > >> > be processed by the router control logic. >> > >> > In the case of this document, there is no normative definition of >> what >> > >> > the control process is to do with the packet. And particularly >> > since in >> > >> > many of the cases described the packet that is punted still has an >> SRH, >> > >> > normal packet processing would simply reach the same "punt" step. >> With >> > >> > nowhere to punt it. >> > >> > You asssume in the examples that some forms of parsing that bypass >> the >> > >> > NSH will take place. But processing does not take place by >> instinct or >> > >> > magic. It takes place because we write RFCs that describe what ha= s >> to >> > >> > happen. Without some definition of the required parsing, and I >> believe >> > >> > (although I am guessing due to the lack of description) we also ne= ed >> > >> > some normative description of what the control process is required >> > to do. >> > >> > Note that in most OAM, we define the behavior that is required, an= d >> > then >> > >> > indicate where it is permitted to use the control plane to achieve >> it. >> > >> > This results in a clear specification, and implementation >> flexibility. >> > >> > Yours, >> > >> > Joel >> > >> > On 12/5/2019 9:34 PM, Zafar Ali (zali) wrote: >> > >> > Hi Joel, >> > >> > I did not understand your comment. >> > >> > Can you please point to specific text in the draft for which t= he >> > draft >> > >> > needs to define normative behavior for the "node punt processo= r >> > look >> > >> > past the SRH and make determinations based on the content."? >> > >> > Thanks >> > >> > Regards =E2=80=A6 Zafar >> > >> > *From: *ipv6 > > > on behalf of "Joel M. Halpern" >> > >> > > jmh@joelhalpern.com>> >> > >> > *Date: *Wednesday, December 4, 2019 at 4:37 PM >> > >> > *To: *Ole Troan > > >, 6man WG > > >, >> > >> > SPRING WG > >> > >> > *Subject: *Re: 6man w.g. last call for >> > >> > >> > I re-read this draft, and I am afraid it is currently >> > under-specified. >> > >> > In order for the various examples to work, there is assumed >> > behavior by >> > >> > the processor to which packets are punted. I could not find >> > where this >> > >> > normative behavior is described explicitly. It appears that t= he >> > >> > behavior requires that the node "punt processor" look past the >> > SRH and >> > >> > make determinations based on the content. This needs to be >> > described >> > >> > explicitly. And it needs some discussion of why it is >> legitimate to >> > >> > look past the SRH when the SRH does not show SL=3D0. >> > >> > Yours, >> > >> > Joel >> > >> > On 12/4/2019 3:53 PM, Ole Troan wrote: >> > >> > Hello, >> > >> > As agreed in the working group session in Singapore, >> this >> > >> > message starts a new two week 6MAN Working Group Last Cal= l >> on >> > >> > advancing: >> > >> > Title : Operations, Administration, and Maintenan= ce >> > (OAM) in >> > >> > Segment Routing Networks with IPv6 Data plane (SRv6) >> > >> > Author : Z. Ali, C. Filsfils, S. Matsushima, D. >> > Voyer, M. Chen >> > >> > Filename : draft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6-oam-02 >> > >> > Pages : 23 >> > >> > Date : 2019-11-20 >> > >> > >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6-oam/ >> > >> > as a Proposed Standard. >> > >> > Substantive comments and statements of support for >> > publishing this >> > >> > document should be directed to the mailing list. >> > >> > Editorial suggestions can be sent to the author. This las= t >> > call will >> > >> > end on the 18th of December 2019. >> > >> > To improve document quality and ensure that bugs are caug= ht >> > as early >> > >> > as possible, we would require at least >> > >> > two reviewers to do a complete review of the >> > document. Please let >> > >> > the chairs know if you are willing to be a reviewer. >> > >> > The last call will be forwarded to the spring working >> > group, with >> > >> > discussion directed to the ipv6 list. >> > >> > Thanks, >> > >> > Bob & Ole, 6man co-chairs >> > >> > >> > >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > >> > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list >> > >> > ipv6@ietf.org >> > >> > Administrative Requests: >> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 >> > >> > >> > >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > >> > >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > >> > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list >> > >> > ipv6@ietf.org >> > >> > Administrative Requests: >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 >> > >> > >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------= -- >> > >> > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list >> > >> > ipv6@ietf.org >> > >> > Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv= 6 >> > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------= -- >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> spring mailing list >> spring@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring >> > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > --0000000000005d6438059a0fab5f Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Robert,
could you please clarify your statement &qu= ot;there is huge value in=C2=A0defining=C2=A0packet timestamping in all oam= =C2=A0documents IETF produces these days"? Is that applicable to Activ= e OAM methods or to other OAM methodologies, including, Passive and Hybrid?= If the timestamping operation is entirely local to a networking node is ap= plied to a data flow, in other words, the timestamp value is not stored in = the forwarded downstream data packet, which performance metric your expect = to produce? Or is the expectation to use the Alternate Marking methodology,= as described in RFC 8321, in combination with the local timestamping? If t= he product of the timestamping operation is stored in the data packet, then= how is that different from what is already described in the iOAM draft you= 've referenced? I believe that iOAM already has defined a method to col= lect timestamps and the method to trigger timestamping described in the dra= ft we're discussing is duplicating that. Would you agree?
Regards,
Greg

On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 1:56 AM Ro= bert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net&= gt; wrote:
Hi Joel,

= >=C2=A0 However, there is no defined behavior that I know of that can ma= ke use=C2=A0
>=C2=A0of this timestamp.=C2=A0 =C2= =A0

Not sure how to read that stat= ement. Are you expecting IETF draft to tell vendor that computing=C2=A0delt= a of N values is needed ? Or is IETF draft needed to tell packet analyzers = to evaluate the quality of the path based on packets timestamps ? Yes route= rs may never be involved in such processing, but other network monitoring c= omponents do.=C2=A0

Sure current netwo= rking in this regard is in stone ages, but there are real efforts and worki= ng code which goes beyond that already in place. Example: https= ://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-data-08

So there is huge value in=C2=A0defining=C2=A0packet timestamping in a= ll oam=C2=A0documents IETF produces these days and it would be rather disse= rvice to remove such important option.=C2=A0

Thx,<= /div>
r.


On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 1:45 AM Joel= M. Halpern <jm= h@joelhalpern.com> wrote:
If I am reading the draft correctly, the difference betwee= n END.OP and
END.OTP is that an internal process is to attach in some internal
location a timestamp to the packet.=C2=A0 In the abstract, I understand why=
such cna be useful.

However, there is no defined behavior that I know of that can make use
of this timestamp.=C2=A0 Until such a behavior is defined, what is the valu= e
in defining the END.OTP behavior?=C2=A0 (Taken in the extreme, until there = is
such a definition, any implementation which treated END.OTP as END.OP
would seem to be indistinguishable from proper operation in terms of
behavior on the wire.)

Yours,
Joel

On 12/18/2019 7:01 PM, Zafar Ali (zali) wrote:
> Hi Joel,
>
> Thanks for your review.
>
> The processing details were embedded in the Section 4.
>
> We brought them up in the Section 3 and also added additional normativ= e
> language in Section 4.
>
> We have been maintaining the latest version of the draft in the Github= ..
>
> However, we also posted the latest diffs, which addresses your comment= s
> as follows:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0* In the new revision, we have added normative text at the= beginning
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0of 3.1.1 where O-bit is defined.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0* Sections 3.3 and 3.4 adds normative texts for OAM SIDs.<= br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0* 4.1.2 and 4.2.2 further adds additional normative text f= or Ping and
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0traceroute use-cases, respectively.
>
> Latest version is kept in the Github and also uploaded as
> https://www.ietf.org/staging= /draft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6-oam-03.txt.
>
> Thanks
>
> Regards =E2=80=A6 Zafar
>
> *From: *"Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>
> *Date: *Thursday, December 5, 2019 at 10:01 PM
> *To: *"Zafar Ali (zali)" <zali@cisco.com>, 6man WG <ipv6@ietf.org>,
> SPRING WG <spr= ing@ietf.org>
> *Subject: *Re: 6man w.g. last call for <draft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6= -oam>
>
> Sorry, minor typo.=C2=A0=C2=A0SRH, not NSH, in the 4th paragraph.
>
> Joel
>
> On 12/5/2019 9:42 PM, Joel M. Halpern wrote:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0The normative behavior for the bits in various plac= es says that the
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0packet is punted to the control process.=C2=A0 In a= nd of itself, that is
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0fine.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0However, in order for that to be useful, the contro= l process has to
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0know
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0what to do with the packet when it gets there.=C2= =A0 In the classic case of
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0router redirect, this is coupled with definition of= various content to
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0be processed by the router control logic.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0In the case of this document, there is no normative= definition of what
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0the control process is to do with the packet.=C2=A0= And particularly
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0since in
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0many of the cases described the packet that is punt= ed still has an SRH,
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0normal packet processing would simply reach the sam= e "punt" step.=C2=A0 With
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0nowhere to punt it.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0You asssume in the examples that some forms of pars= ing that bypass the
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0NSH will take place.=C2=A0 But processing does not = take place by instinct or
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0magic.=C2=A0 It takes place because we write RFCs t= hat describe what has to
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0happen.=C2=A0 Without some definition of the requir= ed parsing, and I believe
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0(although I am guessing due to the lack of descript= ion) we also need
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0some normative description of what the control proc= ess is required
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0to do.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Note that in most OAM, we define the behavior that = is required, and
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0then
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0indicate where it is permitted to use the control p= lane to achieve it.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0This results in a clear specification, and implemen= tation flexibility.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Yours,
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Joel
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0On 12/5/2019 9:34 PM, Zafar Ali (zali) wrote:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Hi Joel,
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0I did not understand your comment. >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Can you please point to specific text= in the draft for which the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0draft
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0needs to define normative behavior fo= r the "node punt processor
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0look
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0past the SRH and make determinations = based on the content."?
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Thanks
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Regards =E2=80=A6 Zafar
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0*From: *ipv6 <ipv6-bounces@ietf.org
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:ipv6-bounces@ietf.org>> on behal= f of "Joel M. Halpern"
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<jmh@joelhalpern.com <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com>> >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0*Date: *Wednesday, December 4, 2019 a= t 4:37 PM
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0*To: *Ole Troan <otroan@employees.org
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:otroan@employees.org>>, 6man WG &= lt;ipv6@ietf.org
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:ipv6@ietf.org>>,
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0SPRING WG <spring@ietf.org <mailto:spring@ietf.org>>
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0*Subject: *Re: 6man w.g. last call fo= r
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<draft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6-oam&g= t;
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0I re-read this draft, and I am afraid= it is currently
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0under-specified.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0In order for the various examples to = work, there is assumed
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0behavior by
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0the processor to which packets are pu= nted.=C2=A0=C2=A0I could not find
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0where this
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0normative behavior is described expli= citly.=C2=A0=C2=A0It appears that the
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0behavior requires that the node "= ;punt processor" look past the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0SRH and
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0make determinations based on the cont= ent.=C2=A0=C2=A0This needs to be
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0described
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0explicitly.=C2=A0=C2=A0And it needs s= ome discussion of why it is legitimate to
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0look past the SRH when the SRH does n= ot show SL=3D0.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Yours,
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Joel
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0On 12/4/2019 3:53 PM, Ole Troan wrote= :
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Hello,
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0As agreed in the working group session in Singapore, this >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 message starts a = new two week 6MAN Working Group Last Call on
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0advancing:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Title=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0: Operations, Administration, a= nd Maintenance
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0(OAM) in
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Segment Routing N= etworks with IPv6 Data plane (SRv6)
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Author=C2=A0=C2=A0 : Z. Ali, C. Filsfils, S. Matsushima, D.<= br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Voyer, M. Chen
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Filename : draft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6-oam-02
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Pages=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0: 23
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Date=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 : 2019-11-20
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6-oam/ >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 as a Proposed Sta= ndard.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Substantive comme= nts and statements of support for
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0publishing this
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 document should b= e directed to the mailing list.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Editorial suggest= ions can be sent to the author. This last
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0call will
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 end on the 18th o= f December 2019.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 To improve docume= nt quality and ensure that bugs are caught
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0as early
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 as possible, we w= ould require at least
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 two reviewers to = do a complete review of the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0document.=C2=A0=C2=A0Please let
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 the chairs know i= f you are willing to be a reviewer.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 The last call wil= l be forwarded to the spring working
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0group, with
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 discussion direct= ed to the ipv6 list.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Thanks,
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Bob & Ole, 6m= an co-chairs
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0-------------------------------------= -------------------------------
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 IETF IPv6 working= group mailing list
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0ipv6@ietf.org <mailto:ipv6@ietf.org> <mailto:ipv6@ietf.org>
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Administrative Re= quests:
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://www.ietf.org= /mailman/listinfo/ipv6
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0-------------------------------------= -------------------------------
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0-------------------------------------= -------------------------------
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0IETF IPv6 working group mailing list<= br> >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0ipv6@ietf.org <mailto:ipv6@ietf.org> <mailto:ipv6@ietf.org>
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0-------------------------------------= -------------------------------
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0---------------------------------------------------= -----------------
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0IETF IPv6 working group mailing list
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= ipv6@ietf.org <mailto:ipv6@ietf.org>
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Administrative Requests: https://w= ww.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0---------------------------------------------------= -----------------
>

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--0000000000005d6438059a0fab5f-- From nobody Thu Dec 19 06:57:59 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A34F112004C; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 06:57:51 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.997 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.997 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yHNAvDE6lnTY; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 06:57:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-lj1-x22b.google.com (mail-lj1-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::22b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1579912002F; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 06:57:47 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-lj1-x22b.google.com with SMTP id j6so6576637lja.2; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 06:57:46 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=SKHD+mezxaDb7U6IUZd1/gv14SEa3Peur/TKTGGNK04=; b=SOTAJf/xyl4ZLZKal57FnbpNG9yqtdhTraUmUJI1rABtrJZyuo4RLmnZ9NU2PRth5I Oew/zg5Ct1PKY2z8+5bkovfhC0Uh1Wav5fjieZV0aRRnLDj+s1mfimmW6dhsE8C1GTpl mgybsIOhW/CKfF7KbWNqBY/fAHJ/JgQmX9wpTYCHQlpzmwzcAMqusn8xKMTC+KXtH8uI RrdlXXmERCGIsDhPSjhV9ydTIbbnlWfxCPkmfkrxP6Vo4ADw30y9mfo2MrFDWqyD7Tki uJhhx7rHBpcNtNRk82QCCD7nM/LF81mslk8+pK7027iX4N1bAQZZ4zkVJ92wHbT4Y9Wh VDqA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=SKHD+mezxaDb7U6IUZd1/gv14SEa3Peur/TKTGGNK04=; b=G4rCITFX6kQgusypcZ0C6EYjiUGHNKIODo28tuTz0vJfSjX56zLLWXIvYkMZqKTUoK tF8385yO529gt2KaQsZAWD4N5RTetNw4oX36EwUSGuKc1OS0ljCZgCBOpUVd8dcvUegh pT637E5Fj2akh8UqWrS2T+2uJ7frqlBMzq99rT62WGyIqgKxVAUiMgkP5GyMgJcUeKHD 3QMfL9jsshsZdRPVgO7I4Uk4CfZ8ajjhHRGk1o51k+HcOnFMytGBB4LGi3mF70iGztGz mWIHhprb6J2iVVpfgeKdly13PIRZCmKcRs3YZRdQ9hK99aHDopOHOmBNnVMTxh2FEtOl R8WA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWfT0GNcBz4ZEJrJKt8mmMAdDqMNG4b2GQWlj9beQAGc9M0WZqc k8KawVb6V33PH83rABLBHSx7Cb+XChiQZptHaw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwyNIncZrzrBudD5nEaoRzxDhsMajha9aQXyDqcdFAcg11uLMvOA1/RpFq1z9L6daUye2geRSjcPO2OrqFbkrw= X-Received: by 2002:a05:651c:c4:: with SMTP id 4mr6366425ljr.131.1576767465333; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 06:57:45 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <15bc440b-1dbc-0930-137f-f016ca527c2c@joelhalpern.com> <8FAF234D-B5C9-42C7-B483-F57C4ECB349F@cisco.com> <6c3eabf3-410d-ecb6-324f-967544b29a30@joelhalpern.com> <95afdc48-b88a-ab1f-f51f-13193ba5dc1c@joelhalpern.com> <8F662D6A-1720-4D31-AEB8-6A3F7E40E996@cisco.com> <13540a0f-a653-2e52-d253-062b647454d7@joelhalpern.com> In-Reply-To: From: Rakesh Gandhi Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2019 09:57:34 -0500 Message-ID: To: Greg Mirsky Cc: Robert Raszuk , SPRING WG , "Joel M. Halpern" , 6man WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000aa26d6059a0fc849" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] 6man w.g. last call for - END.OTP X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2019 14:57:52 -0000 --000000000000aa26d6059a0fc849 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Greg, Joel, FYI, END.OTP is used with TWAMP Light (RFC 5357) (and STAMP) in draft-gandhi-spring-twamp-srpm and RFC 6374 in draft-gandhi-spring-rfc6374-srpm-udp, for performance delay measurement use-case. thanks, Rakesh On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 9:49 AM Greg Mirsky wrote: > Hi Robert, > could you please clarify your statement "there is huge value > in defining packet timestamping in all oam documents IETF produces these > days"? Is that applicable to Active OAM methods or to other OAM > methodologies, including, Passive and Hybrid? If the timestamping operati= on > is entirely local to a networking node is applied to a data flow, in othe= r > words, the timestamp value is not stored in the forwarded downstream data > packet, which performance metric your expect to produce? Or is the > expectation to use the Alternate Marking methodology, as described in RFC > 8321, in combination with the local timestamping? If the product of the > timestamping operation is stored in the data packet, then how is that > different from what is already described in the iOAM draft you've > referenced? I believe that iOAM already has defined a method to collect > timestamps and the method to trigger timestamping described in the draft > we're discussing is duplicating that. Would you agree? > > Regards, > Greg > > On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 1:56 AM Robert Raszuk wrote: > >> Hi Joel, >> >> > However, there is no defined behavior that I know of that can make us= e >> > of this timestamp. >> >> Not sure how to read that statement. Are you expecting IETF draft to tel= l >> vendor that computing delta of N values is needed ? Or is IETF draft nee= ded >> to tell packet analyzers to evaluate the quality of the path based on >> packets timestamps ? Yes routers may never be involved in such processin= g, >> but other network monitoring components do. >> >> Sure current networking in this regard is in stone ages, but there are >> real efforts and working code which goes beyond that already in place. >> Example: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-data-08 >> >> So there is huge value in defining packet timestamping in all >> oam documents IETF produces these days and it would be rather disservice= to >> remove such important option. >> >> Thx, >> r. >> >> >> On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 1:45 AM Joel M. Halpern >> wrote: >> >>> If I am reading the draft correctly, the difference between END.OP and >>> END.OTP is that an internal process is to attach in some internal >>> location a timestamp to the packet. In the abstract, I understand why >>> such cna be useful. >>> >>> However, there is no defined behavior that I know of that can make use >>> of this timestamp. Until such a behavior is defined, what is the value >>> in defining the END.OTP behavior? (Taken in the extreme, until there i= s >>> such a definition, any implementation which treated END.OTP as END.OP >>> would seem to be indistinguishable from proper operation in terms of >>> behavior on the wire.) >>> >>> Yours, >>> Joel >>> >>> On 12/18/2019 7:01 PM, Zafar Ali (zali) wrote: >>> > Hi Joel, >>> > >>> > Thanks for your review. >>> > >>> > The processing details were embedded in the Section 4. >>> > >>> > We brought them up in the Section 3 and also added additional >>> normative >>> > language in Section 4. >>> > >>> > We have been maintaining the latest version of the draft in the >>> Github... >>> > >>> > However, we also posted the latest diffs, which addresses your >>> comments >>> > as follows: >>> > >>> > * In the new revision, we have added normative text at the beginnin= g >>> > of 3.1.1 where O-bit is defined. >>> > * Sections 3.3 and 3.4 adds normative texts for OAM SIDs. >>> > * 4.1.2 and 4.2.2 further adds additional normative text for Ping a= nd >>> > traceroute use-cases, respectively. >>> > >>> > Latest version is kept in the Github and also uploaded as >>> > https://www.ietf.org/staging/draft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6-oam-03.txt. >>> > >>> > Thanks >>> > >>> > Regards =E2=80=A6 Zafar >>> > >>> > *From: *"Joel M. Halpern" >>> > *Date: *Thursday, December 5, 2019 at 10:01 PM >>> > *To: *"Zafar Ali (zali)" , 6man WG , >>> > SPRING WG >>> > *Subject: *Re: 6man w.g. last call for >>> >>> > >>> > Sorry, minor typo. SRH, not NSH, in the 4th paragraph. >>> > >>> > Joel >>> > >>> > On 12/5/2019 9:42 PM, Joel M. Halpern wrote: >>> > >>> > The normative behavior for the bits in various places says that t= he >>> > >>> > packet is punted to the control process. In and of itself, that = is >>> > fine. >>> > >>> > However, in order for that to be useful, the control process has = to >>> > know >>> > >>> > what to do with the packet when it gets there. In the classic >>> case of >>> > >>> > router redirect, this is coupled with definition of various >>> content to >>> > >>> > be processed by the router control logic. >>> > >>> > In the case of this document, there is no normative definition of >>> what >>> > >>> > the control process is to do with the packet. And particularly >>> > since in >>> > >>> > many of the cases described the packet that is punted still has a= n >>> SRH, >>> > >>> > normal packet processing would simply reach the same "punt" step. >>> With >>> > >>> > nowhere to punt it. >>> > >>> > You asssume in the examples that some forms of parsing that bypas= s >>> the >>> > >>> > NSH will take place. But processing does not take place by >>> instinct or >>> > >>> > magic. It takes place because we write RFCs that describe what >>> has to >>> > >>> > happen. Without some definition of the required parsing, and I >>> believe >>> > >>> > (although I am guessing due to the lack of description) we also >>> need >>> > >>> > some normative description of what the control process is require= d >>> > to do. >>> > >>> > Note that in most OAM, we define the behavior that is required, a= nd >>> > then >>> > >>> > indicate where it is permitted to use the control plane to achiev= e >>> it. >>> > >>> > This results in a clear specification, and implementation >>> flexibility. >>> > >>> > Yours, >>> > >>> > Joel >>> > >>> > On 12/5/2019 9:34 PM, Zafar Ali (zali) wrote: >>> > >>> > Hi Joel, >>> > >>> > I did not understand your comment. >>> > >>> > Can you please point to specific text in the draft for which >>> the >>> > draft >>> > >>> > needs to define normative behavior for the "node punt process= or >>> > look >>> > >>> > past the SRH and make determinations based on the content."? >>> > >>> > Thanks >>> > >>> > Regards =E2=80=A6 Zafar >>> > >>> > *From: *ipv6 >> > > on behalf of "Joel M. Halpern= " >>> > >>> > >> jmh@joelhalpern.com>> >>> > >>> > *Date: *Wednesday, December 4, 2019 at 4:37 PM >>> > >>> > *To: *Ole Troan >> > >, 6man WG >> > >, >>> > >>> > SPRING WG > >>> > >>> > *Subject: *Re: 6man w.g. last call for >>> > >>> > >>> > I re-read this draft, and I am afraid it is currently >>> > under-specified. >>> > >>> > In order for the various examples to work, there is assumed >>> > behavior by >>> > >>> > the processor to which packets are punted. I could not find >>> > where this >>> > >>> > normative behavior is described explicitly. It appears that >>> the >>> > >>> > behavior requires that the node "punt processor" look past th= e >>> > SRH and >>> > >>> > make determinations based on the content. This needs to be >>> > described >>> > >>> > explicitly. And it needs some discussion of why it is >>> legitimate to >>> > >>> > look past the SRH when the SRH does not show SL=3D0. >>> > >>> > Yours, >>> > >>> > Joel >>> > >>> > On 12/4/2019 3:53 PM, Ole Troan wrote: >>> > >>> > Hello, >>> > >>> > As agreed in the working group session in Singapore= , >>> this >>> > >>> > message starts a new two week 6MAN Working Group Last >>> Call on >>> > >>> > advancing: >>> > >>> > Title : Operations, Administration, and >>> Maintenance >>> > (OAM) in >>> > >>> > Segment Routing Networks with IPv6 Data plane (SRv6) >>> > >>> > Author : Z. Ali, C. Filsfils, S. Matsushima, D. >>> > Voyer, M. Chen >>> > >>> > Filename : draft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6-oam-02 >>> > >>> > Pages : 23 >>> > >>> > Date : 2019-11-20 >>> > >>> > >>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6-oam/ >>> > >>> > as a Proposed Standard. >>> > >>> > Substantive comments and statements of support for >>> > publishing this >>> > >>> > document should be directed to the mailing list. >>> > >>> > Editorial suggestions can be sent to the author. This la= st >>> > call will >>> > >>> > end on the 18th of December 2019. >>> > >>> > To improve document quality and ensure that bugs are >>> caught >>> > as early >>> > >>> > as possible, we would require at least >>> > >>> > two reviewers to do a complete review of the >>> > document. Please let >>> > >>> > the chairs know if you are willing to be a reviewer. >>> > >>> > The last call will be forwarded to the spring working >>> > group, with >>> > >>> > discussion directed to the ipv6 list. >>> > >>> > Thanks, >>> > >>> > Bob & Ole, 6man co-chairs >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> > >>> > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list >>> > >>> > ipv6@ietf.org >>> > >>> > Administrative Requests: >>> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> > >>> > >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> > >>> > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list >>> > >>> > ipv6@ietf.org >>> > >>> > Administrative Requests: >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 >>> > >>> > >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> > >>> > >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> > >>> > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list >>> > >>> > ipv6@ietf.org >>> > >>> > Administrative Requests: >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 >>> > >>> > >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> > >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> spring mailing list >>> spring@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring >>> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> IETF IPv6 working group mailing list >> ipv6@ietf.org >> Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > --000000000000aa26d6059a0fc849 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Greg, Joel,

FYI, END.OTP i= s used with TWAMP Light (RFC 5357) (and STAMP) in draft-gandhi-spring-t= wamp-srpm and RFC 6374 in draft-gandhi-spring-rfc6374-srpm-udp, for perf= ormance delay measurement use-case.
thanks,
Rakesh<=
/font>

On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 9:49 AM Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com> wrote:
H= i Robert,
could you please clarify your statement "there is huge v= alue in=C2=A0defining=C2=A0packet timestamping in all oam=C2=A0documents IE= TF produces these days"? Is that applicable to Active OAM methods or t= o other OAM methodologies, including, Passive and Hybrid? If the timestampi= ng operation is entirely local to a networking node is applied to a data fl= ow, in other words, the timestamp value is not stored in the forwarded down= stream data packet, which performance metric your expect to produce? Or is = the expectation to use the Alternate Marking methodology, as described in R= FC 8321, in combination with the local timestamping? If the product of the = timestamping operation is stored in the data packet, then how is that diffe= rent from what is already described in the iOAM draft you've referenced= ? I believe that iOAM already has defined a method to collect timestamps an= d the method to trigger timestamping described in the draft we're discu= ssing is duplicating that. Would you agree?

Regard= s,
Greg

On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 1:56 AM Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net&= gt; wrote:
Hi Joel,

= >=C2=A0 However, there is no defined behavior that I know of that can ma= ke use=C2=A0
>=C2=A0of this timestamp.=C2=A0 =C2= =A0

Not sure how to read that stat= ement. Are you expecting IETF draft to tell vendor that computing=C2=A0delt= a of N values is needed ? Or is IETF draft needed to tell packet analyzers = to evaluate the quality of the path based on packets timestamps ? Yes route= rs may never be involved in such processing, but other network monitoring c= omponents do.=C2=A0

Sure current netwo= rking in this regard is in stone ages, but there are real efforts and worki= ng code which goes beyond that already in place. Example: https= ://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-data-08

So there is huge value in=C2=A0defining=C2=A0packet timestamping in a= ll oam=C2=A0documents IETF produces these days and it would be rather disse= rvice to remove such important option.=C2=A0

Thx,<= /div>
r.


On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 1:45 AM Joel= M. Halpern <jm= h@joelhalpern.com> wrote:
If I am reading the draft correctly, the difference betwee= n END.OP and
END.OTP is that an internal process is to attach in some internal
location a timestamp to the packet.=C2=A0 In the abstract, I understand why=
such cna be useful.

However, there is no defined behavior that I know of that can make use
of this timestamp.=C2=A0 Until such a behavior is defined, what is the valu= e
in defining the END.OTP behavior?=C2=A0 (Taken in the extreme, until there = is
such a definition, any implementation which treated END.OTP as END.OP
would seem to be indistinguishable from proper operation in terms of
behavior on the wire.)

Yours,
Joel

On 12/18/2019 7:01 PM, Zafar Ali (zali) wrote:
> Hi Joel,
>
> Thanks for your review.
>
> The processing details were embedded in the Section 4.
>
> We brought them up in the Section 3 and also added additional normativ= e
> language in Section 4.
>
> We have been maintaining the latest version of the draft in the Github= ...
>
> However, we also posted the latest diffs, which addresses your comment= s
> as follows:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0* In the new revision, we have added normative text at the= beginning
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0of 3.1.1 where O-bit is defined.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0* Sections 3.3 and 3.4 adds normative texts for OAM SIDs.<= br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0* 4.1.2 and 4.2.2 further adds additional normative text f= or Ping and
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0traceroute use-cases, respectively.
>
> Latest version is kept in the Github and also uploaded as
> https://www.ietf.org/staging= /draft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6-oam-03.txt.
>
> Thanks
>
> Regards =E2=80=A6 Zafar
>
> *From: *"Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>
> *Date: *Thursday, December 5, 2019 at 10:01 PM
> *To: *"Zafar Ali (zali)" <zali@cisco.com>, 6man WG <ipv6@ietf.org>,
> SPRING WG <spr= ing@ietf.org>
> *Subject: *Re: 6man w.g. last call for <draft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6= -oam>
>
> Sorry, minor typo.=C2=A0=C2=A0SRH, not NSH, in the 4th paragraph.
>
> Joel
>
> On 12/5/2019 9:42 PM, Joel M. Halpern wrote:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0The normative behavior for the bits in various plac= es says that the
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0packet is punted to the control process.=C2=A0 In a= nd of itself, that is
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0fine.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0However, in order for that to be useful, the contro= l process has to
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0know
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0what to do with the packet when it gets there.=C2= =A0 In the classic case of
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0router redirect, this is coupled with definition of= various content to
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0be processed by the router control logic.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0In the case of this document, there is no normative= definition of what
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0the control process is to do with the packet.=C2=A0= And particularly
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0since in
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0many of the cases described the packet that is punt= ed still has an SRH,
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0normal packet processing would simply reach the sam= e "punt" step.=C2=A0 With
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0nowhere to punt it.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0You asssume in the examples that some forms of pars= ing that bypass the
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0NSH will take place.=C2=A0 But processing does not = take place by instinct or
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0magic.=C2=A0 It takes place because we write RFCs t= hat describe what has to
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0happen.=C2=A0 Without some definition of the requir= ed parsing, and I believe
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0(although I am guessing due to the lack of descript= ion) we also need
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0some normative description of what the control proc= ess is required
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0to do.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Note that in most OAM, we define the behavior that = is required, and
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0then
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0indicate where it is permitted to use the control p= lane to achieve it.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0This results in a clear specification, and implemen= tation flexibility.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Yours,
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Joel
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0On 12/5/2019 9:34 PM, Zafar Ali (zali) wrote:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Hi Joel,
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0I did not understand your comment. >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Can you please point to specific text= in the draft for which the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0draft
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0needs to define normative behavior fo= r the "node punt processor
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0look
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0past the SRH and make determinations = based on the content."?
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Thanks
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Regards =E2=80=A6 Zafar
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0*From: *ipv6 <ipv6-bounces@ietf.org
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:ipv6-bounces@ietf.org>> on behal= f of "Joel M. Halpern"
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<jmh@joelhalpern.com <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com>><= br> >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0*Date: *Wednesday, December 4, 2019 a= t 4:37 PM
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0*To: *Ole Troan <otroan@employees.org
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:otroan@employees.org>>, 6man WG &= lt;ipv6@ietf.org
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:ipv6@ietf.org>>,
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0SPRING WG <spring@ietf.org <mailto:spring@ietf.org>>
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0*Subject: *Re: 6man w.g. last call fo= r
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<draft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6-oam&g= t;
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0I re-read this draft, and I am afraid= it is currently
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0under-specified.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0In order for the various examples to = work, there is assumed
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0behavior by
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0the processor to which packets are pu= nted.=C2=A0=C2=A0I could not find
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0where this
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0normative behavior is described expli= citly.=C2=A0=C2=A0It appears that the
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0behavior requires that the node "= ;punt processor" look past the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0SRH and
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0make determinations based on the cont= ent.=C2=A0=C2=A0This needs to be
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0described
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0explicitly.=C2=A0=C2=A0And it needs s= ome discussion of why it is legitimate to
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0look past the SRH when the SRH does n= ot show SL=3D0.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Yours,
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Joel
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0On 12/4/2019 3:53 PM, Ole Troan wrote= :
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Hello,
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0As agreed in the working group session in Singapore, this >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 message starts a = new two week 6MAN Working Group Last Call on
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0advancing:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Title=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0: Operations, Administration, a= nd Maintenance
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0(OAM) in
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Segment Routing N= etworks with IPv6 Data plane (SRv6)
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Author=C2=A0=C2=A0 : Z. Ali, C. Filsfils, S. Matsushima, D.<= br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Voyer, M. Chen
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Filename : draft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6-oam-02
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Pages=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0: 23
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Date=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 : 2019-11-20
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6-oam/ >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 as a Proposed Sta= ndard.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Substantive comme= nts and statements of support for
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0publishing this
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 document should b= e directed to the mailing list.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Editorial suggest= ions can be sent to the author. This last
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0call will
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 end on the 18th o= f December 2019.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 To improve docume= nt quality and ensure that bugs are caught
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0as early
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 as possible, we w= ould require at least
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 two reviewers to = do a complete review of the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0document.=C2=A0=C2=A0Please let
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 the chairs know i= f you are willing to be a reviewer.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 The last call wil= l be forwarded to the spring working
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0group, with
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 discussion direct= ed to the ipv6 list.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Thanks,
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Bob & Ole, 6m= an co-chairs
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0-------------------------------------= -------------------------------
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 IETF IPv6 working= group mailing list
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>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0ipv6@ietf.org <mailto:ipv6@ietf.org> <mailto:ipv6@ietf.org>
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Administrative Re= quests:
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://www.ietf.org= /mailman/listinfo/ipv6
>
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>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0-------------------------------------= -------------------------------
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0-------------------------------------= -------------------------------
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>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0IETF IPv6 working group mailing list<= br> >
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--000000000000aa26d6059a0fc849-- From nobody Thu Dec 19 07:04:42 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38306120059; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 07:04:31 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.997 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.997 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zQo7XJyalfsi; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 07:04:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-lf1-x131.google.com (mail-lf1-x131.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::131]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5B82C12004C; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 07:04:27 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-lf1-x131.google.com with SMTP id y19so4563529lfl.9; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 07:04:27 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=+Fa5lRthqtsG60wTuMrfgdb0d+R6EpQjgLUISS4Vv9g=; b=ummT+VmztULiCyJ1mihvV7ZAQ2vOonOs554nRK6UAGTVa7Ef/Fe96gOBcJuS5EzjVj H4/zl3etUarN+7duEeFdAFYdoDkOzAb75XOPONS7bFyZkiz+LIS9/4soR22A7IxoWbu1 gQjfsivkhZV6JeMzBFxCWDpZhPimm+mMg2HVSDYPiw1Lq6yJjYe3ApkZDLxtJ+VfnwDL WrZJx9OgGSySMn83+3qJh+WKq5W17xjpPPcvI6FPCGdNenu8hJKBfu+4lzk3RK5Q/MEi UkRrOS+AJfF6DHXhxTI6sqnkBL7RKbUBmARR8dGo2B2FEbmJJXaNa9hOMKrGn1c/ZAFW Y8zw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=+Fa5lRthqtsG60wTuMrfgdb0d+R6EpQjgLUISS4Vv9g=; b=mc732nRSA8fI9asqrjjIkyGuPtKtnMbpq6z4qD7W0+vTDGRz4Al+9kzdP1REZQQrfL wFnjT6u+pqg0oNw/wchzZCJVNMVvdQ0btw/p1bi+bn1fgzRYPeSSslyqqXED1B2I5MjP gNfSMQTa9do+/upwVF4VRhUplfdNIGt6e2ZxFUPGKGfMn8uzQ6THQwtALpdLteN6eI0s 09cxEpVASX4patYatse7XwImkyVr7usmueezHlJIGsRzKAeokOwFI5htBGbxuwKid6YG 17vu0vCYPIYPBqGBg2byLrJN/GxfuPUPozQ7uEyVlk5hW3QEkmY4NjqHzTBvu+6gZuWh hbXQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWgptei4ix8QmmMtZInhVvYUNZjM1M5OyKBPugiVaAZj3tCsY+8 pbiAAGlVge9srp4zdgIaJiJrDShecy1PBHOFMGM= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwvnpQPxpWCi0kwE9vrmTMqEy1PSGqAAxHCo6e8qGKFvHqZ+yVkZCykWz6HeIT8DbmYoSc6K4tdIeq6VEcmu20= X-Received: by 2002:a19:5f58:: with SMTP id a24mr5788926lfj.9.1576767865475; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 07:04:25 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <15bc440b-1dbc-0930-137f-f016ca527c2c@joelhalpern.com> <8FAF234D-B5C9-42C7-B483-F57C4ECB349F@cisco.com> <6c3eabf3-410d-ecb6-324f-967544b29a30@joelhalpern.com> <95afdc48-b88a-ab1f-f51f-13193ba5dc1c@joelhalpern.com> <8F662D6A-1720-4D31-AEB8-6A3F7E40E996@cisco.com> <13540a0f-a653-2e52-d253-062b647454d7@joelhalpern.com> In-Reply-To: From: Greg Mirsky Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2019 07:04:15 -0800 Message-ID: To: Rakesh Gandhi Cc: Robert Raszuk , SPRING WG , "Joel M. Halpern" , 6man WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000083d6a8059a0fe090" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] 6man w.g. last call for - END.OTP X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2019 15:04:31 -0000 --00000000000083d6a8059a0fe090 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Rakesh, thank you for pointing to this interesting proposal. But, as I understand RFC 5357 and Appendix I, timestamp collection is already part of the TWAMP. Why there's the need to duplicate what is being documented in RFC 5357? Regards, Greg On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 6:57 AM Rakesh Gandhi wrote: > Hi Greg, Joel, > > FYI, END.OTP is used with TWAMP Light (RFC 5357) (and STAMP) in > draft-gandhi-spring-twamp-srpm and RFC 6374 in > draft-gandhi-spring-rfc6374-srpm-udp, for performance delay measurement > use-case. > > thanks, > Rakesh > > > On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 9:49 AM Greg Mirsky wrote= : > >> Hi Robert, >> could you please clarify your statement "there is huge value >> in defining packet timestamping in all oam documents IETF produces these >> days"? Is that applicable to Active OAM methods or to other OAM >> methodologies, including, Passive and Hybrid? If the timestamping operat= ion >> is entirely local to a networking node is applied to a data flow, in oth= er >> words, the timestamp value is not stored in the forwarded downstream dat= a >> packet, which performance metric your expect to produce? Or is the >> expectation to use the Alternate Marking methodology, as described in RF= C >> 8321, in combination with the local timestamping? If the product of the >> timestamping operation is stored in the data packet, then how is that >> different from what is already described in the iOAM draft you've >> referenced? I believe that iOAM already has defined a method to collect >> timestamps and the method to trigger timestamping described in the draft >> we're discussing is duplicating that. Would you agree? >> >> Regards, >> Greg >> >> On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 1:56 AM Robert Raszuk wrote: >> >>> Hi Joel, >>> >>> > However, there is no defined behavior that I know of that can make >>> use >>> > of this timestamp. >>> >>> Not sure how to read that statement. Are you expecting IETF draft to >>> tell vendor that computing delta of N values is needed ? Or is IETF dra= ft >>> needed to tell packet analyzers to evaluate the quality of the path bas= ed >>> on packets timestamps ? Yes routers may never be involved in such >>> processing, but other network monitoring components do. >>> >>> Sure current networking in this regard is in stone ages, but there are >>> real efforts and working code which goes beyond that already in place. >>> Example: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-data-08 >>> >>> So there is huge value in defining packet timestamping in all >>> oam documents IETF produces these days and it would be rather disservic= e to >>> remove such important option. >>> >>> Thx, >>> r. >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 1:45 AM Joel M. Halpern >>> wrote: >>> >>>> If I am reading the draft correctly, the difference between END.OP and >>>> END.OTP is that an internal process is to attach in some internal >>>> location a timestamp to the packet. In the abstract, I understand why >>>> such cna be useful. >>>> >>>> However, there is no defined behavior that I know of that can make use >>>> of this timestamp. Until such a behavior is defined, what is the valu= e >>>> in defining the END.OTP behavior? (Taken in the extreme, until there >>>> is >>>> such a definition, any implementation which treated END.OTP as END.OP >>>> would seem to be indistinguishable from proper operation in terms of >>>> behavior on the wire.) >>>> >>>> Yours, >>>> Joel >>>> >>>> On 12/18/2019 7:01 PM, Zafar Ali (zali) wrote: >>>> > Hi Joel, >>>> > >>>> > Thanks for your review. >>>> > >>>> > The processing details were embedded in the Section 4. >>>> > >>>> > We brought them up in the Section 3 and also added additional >>>> normative >>>> > language in Section 4. >>>> > >>>> > We have been maintaining the latest version of the draft in the >>>> Github... >>>> > >>>> > However, we also posted the latest diffs, which addresses your >>>> comments >>>> > as follows: >>>> > >>>> > * In the new revision, we have added normative text at the beginni= ng >>>> > of 3.1.1 where O-bit is defined. >>>> > * Sections 3.3 and 3.4 adds normative texts for OAM SIDs. >>>> > * 4.1.2 and 4.2.2 further adds additional normative text for Ping >>>> and >>>> > traceroute use-cases, respectively. >>>> > >>>> > Latest version is kept in the Github and also uploaded as >>>> > https://www.ietf.org/staging/draft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6-oam-03.txt. >>>> > >>>> > Thanks >>>> > >>>> > Regards =E2=80=A6 Zafar >>>> > >>>> > *From: *"Joel M. Halpern" >>>> > *Date: *Thursday, December 5, 2019 at 10:01 PM >>>> > *To: *"Zafar Ali (zali)" , 6man WG , >>>> > SPRING WG >>>> > *Subject: *Re: 6man w.g. last call for >>>> >>>> > >>>> > Sorry, minor typo. SRH, not NSH, in the 4th paragraph. >>>> > >>>> > Joel >>>> > >>>> > On 12/5/2019 9:42 PM, Joel M. Halpern wrote: >>>> > >>>> > The normative behavior for the bits in various places says that >>>> the >>>> > >>>> > packet is punted to the control process. In and of itself, that >>>> is >>>> > fine. >>>> > >>>> > However, in order for that to be useful, the control process has >>>> to >>>> > know >>>> > >>>> > what to do with the packet when it gets there. In the classic >>>> case of >>>> > >>>> > router redirect, this is coupled with definition of various >>>> content to >>>> > >>>> > be processed by the router control logic. >>>> > >>>> > In the case of this document, there is no normative definition o= f >>>> what >>>> > >>>> > the control process is to do with the packet. And particularly >>>> > since in >>>> > >>>> > many of the cases described the packet that is punted still has >>>> an SRH, >>>> > >>>> > normal packet processing would simply reach the same "punt" >>>> step. With >>>> > >>>> > nowhere to punt it. >>>> > >>>> > You asssume in the examples that some forms of parsing that >>>> bypass the >>>> > >>>> > NSH will take place. But processing does not take place by >>>> instinct or >>>> > >>>> > magic. It takes place because we write RFCs that describe what >>>> has to >>>> > >>>> > happen. Without some definition of the required parsing, and I >>>> believe >>>> > >>>> > (although I am guessing due to the lack of description) we also >>>> need >>>> > >>>> > some normative description of what the control process is requir= ed >>>> > to do. >>>> > >>>> > Note that in most OAM, we define the behavior that is required, >>>> and >>>> > then >>>> > >>>> > indicate where it is permitted to use the control plane to >>>> achieve it. >>>> > >>>> > This results in a clear specification, and implementation >>>> flexibility. >>>> > >>>> > Yours, >>>> > >>>> > Joel >>>> > >>>> > On 12/5/2019 9:34 PM, Zafar Ali (zali) wrote: >>>> > >>>> > Hi Joel, >>>> > >>>> > I did not understand your comment. >>>> > >>>> > Can you please point to specific text in the draft for which >>>> the >>>> > draft >>>> > >>>> > needs to define normative behavior for the "node punt >>>> processor >>>> > look >>>> > >>>> > past the SRH and make determinations based on the content."? >>>> > >>>> > Thanks >>>> > >>>> > Regards =E2=80=A6 Zafar >>>> > >>>> > *From: *ipv6 >>> > > on behalf of "Joel M. >>>> Halpern" >>>> > >>>> > >>> jmh@joelhalpern.com>> >>>> > >>>> > *Date: *Wednesday, December 4, 2019 at 4:37 PM >>>> > >>>> > *To: *Ole Troan >>> > >, 6man WG >>> > >, >>>> > >>>> > SPRING WG > >>>> > >>>> > *Subject: *Re: 6man w.g. last call for >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > I re-read this draft, and I am afraid it is currently >>>> > under-specified. >>>> > >>>> > In order for the various examples to work, there is assumed >>>> > behavior by >>>> > >>>> > the processor to which packets are punted. I could not find >>>> > where this >>>> > >>>> > normative behavior is described explicitly. It appears that >>>> the >>>> > >>>> > behavior requires that the node "punt processor" look past t= he >>>> > SRH and >>>> > >>>> > make determinations based on the content. This needs to be >>>> > described >>>> > >>>> > explicitly. And it needs some discussion of why it is >>>> legitimate to >>>> > >>>> > look past the SRH when the SRH does not show SL=3D0. >>>> > >>>> > Yours, >>>> > >>>> > Joel >>>> > >>>> > On 12/4/2019 3:53 PM, Ole Troan wrote: >>>> > >>>> > Hello, >>>> > >>>> > As agreed in the working group session in >>>> Singapore, this >>>> > >>>> > message starts a new two week 6MAN Working Group Last >>>> Call on >>>> > >>>> > advancing: >>>> > >>>> > Title : Operations, Administration, and >>>> Maintenance >>>> > (OAM) in >>>> > >>>> > Segment Routing Networks with IPv6 Data plane (SRv6) >>>> > >>>> > Author : Z. Ali, C. Filsfils, S. Matsushima, D. >>>> > Voyer, M. Chen >>>> > >>>> > Filename : draft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6-oam-02 >>>> > >>>> > Pages : 23 >>>> > >>>> > Date : 2019-11-20 >>>> > >>>> > >>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6-oam/ >>>> > >>>> > as a Proposed Standard. >>>> > >>>> > Substantive comments and statements of support for >>>> > publishing this >>>> > >>>> > document should be directed to the mailing list. >>>> > >>>> > Editorial suggestions can be sent to the author. This >>>> last >>>> > call will >>>> > >>>> > end on the 18th of December 2019. >>>> > >>>> > To improve document quality and ensure that bugs are >>>> caught >>>> > as early >>>> > >>>> > as possible, we would require at least >>>> > >>>> > two reviewers to do a complete review of the >>>> > document. Please let >>>> > >>>> > the chairs know if you are willing to be a reviewer. >>>> > >>>> > The last call will be forwarded to the spring working >>>> > group, with >>>> > >>>> > discussion directed to the ipv6 list. >>>> > >>>> > Thanks, >>>> > >>>> > Bob & Ole, 6man co-chairs >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> > >>>> > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list >>>> > >>>> > ipv6@ietf.org >>>> > >>>> > Administrative Requests: >>>> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> > >>>> > >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> > >>>> > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list >>>> > >>>> > ipv6@ietf.org >>>> > >>>> > Administrative Requests: >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 >>>> > >>>> > >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> > >>>> > >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> > >>>> > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list >>>> > >>>> > ipv6@ietf.org >>>> > >>>> > Administrative Requests: >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 >>>> > >>>> > >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> > >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> spring mailing list >>>> spring@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring >>>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> IETF IPv6 working group mailing list >>> ipv6@ietf.org >>> Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> spring mailing list >> spring@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring >> > --00000000000083d6a8059a0fe090 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Rakesh,
thank you for pointing to this interesting = proposal. But, as I understand RFC 5357 and Appendix I, timestamp collectio= n is already part of the TWAMP. Why there's the need to duplicate what = is being documented in RFC 5357?

Regards,
Greg

On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 6:57 AM Rakesh Gandhi <rgandhi.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Greg, Joel= ,

FYI, END.OTP is used with TWAMP Light = (RFC 5357) (and STAMP) in draft-gandhi-spring-twamp-srpm and RFC 6374= in draft-gandhi-spring-rfc6374-srpm-udp, for performance delay measurement= use-case.
thanks,
Rakesh

On = Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 9:49 AM Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com> wrote:
=
Hi Rober= t,
could you please clarify your statement "there is huge value in= =C2=A0defining=C2=A0packet timestamping in all oam=C2=A0documents IETF prod= uces these days"? Is that applicable to Active OAM methods or to other= OAM methodologies, including, Passive and Hybrid? If the timestamping oper= ation is entirely local to a networking node is applied to a data flow, in = other words, the timestamp value is not stored in the forwarded downstream = data packet, which performance metric your expect to produce? Or is the exp= ectation to use the Alternate Marking methodology, as described in RFC 8321= , in combination with the local timestamping? If the product of the timesta= mping operation is stored in the data packet, then how is that different fr= om what is already described in the iOAM draft you've referenced? I bel= ieve that iOAM already has defined a method to collect timestamps and the m= ethod to trigger timestamping described in the draft we're discussing i= s duplicating that. Would you agree?

Regards,
Greg

On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 1:56 AM Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> w= rote:
Hi Joel,

>= ;=C2=A0 However, there is no defined behavior that I know of that can make = use=C2=A0
>=C2=A0of this timestamp.=C2=A0 =C2=A0

Not sure how to read that statement= . Are you expecting IETF draft to tell vendor that computing=C2=A0delta of = N values is needed ? Or is IETF draft needed to tell packet analyzers to ev= aluate the quality of the path based on packets timestamps ? Yes routers ma= y never be involved in such processing, but other network monitoring compon= ents do.=C2=A0

Sure current networking= in this regard is in stone ages, but there are real efforts and working co= de which goes beyond that already in place. Example: https://to= ols.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-data-08

So there is huge value in=C2=A0defining=C2=A0packet timestamping in all oa= m=C2=A0documents IETF produces these days and it would be rather disservice= to remove such important option.=C2=A0

Thx,
=
r.


On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 1:45 AM Joel M. H= alpern <jmh@joe= lhalpern.com> wrote:
If I am reading the draft correctly, the difference between END= .OP and
END.OTP is that an internal process is to attach in some internal
location a timestamp to the packet.=C2=A0 In the abstract, I understand why=
such cna be useful.

However, there is no defined behavior that I know of that can make use
of this timestamp.=C2=A0 Until such a behavior is defined, what is the valu= e
in defining the END.OTP behavior?=C2=A0 (Taken in the extreme, until there = is
such a definition, any implementation which treated END.OTP as END.OP
would seem to be indistinguishable from proper operation in terms of
behavior on the wire.)

Yours,
Joel

On 12/18/2019 7:01 PM, Zafar Ali (zali) wrote:
> Hi Joel,
>
> Thanks for your review.
>
> The processing details were embedded in the Section 4.
>
> We brought them up in the Section 3 and also added additional normativ= e
> language in Section 4.
>
> We have been maintaining the latest version of the draft in the Github= ...
>
> However, we also posted the latest diffs, which addresses your comment= s
> as follows:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0* In the new revision, we have added normative text at the= beginning
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0of 3.1.1 where O-bit is defined.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0* Sections 3.3 and 3.4 adds normative texts for OAM SIDs.<= br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0* 4.1.2 and 4.2.2 further adds additional normative text f= or Ping and
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0traceroute use-cases, respectively.
>
> Latest version is kept in the Github and also uploaded as
> https://www.ietf.org/staging= /draft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6-oam-03.txt.
>
> Thanks
>
> Regards =E2=80=A6 Zafar
>
> *From: *"Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>
> *Date: *Thursday, December 5, 2019 at 10:01 PM
> *To: *"Zafar Ali (zali)" <zali@cisco.com>, 6man WG <ipv6@ietf.org>,
> SPRING WG <spr= ing@ietf.org>
> *Subject: *Re: 6man w.g. last call for <draft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6= -oam>
>
> Sorry, minor typo.=C2=A0=C2=A0SRH, not NSH, in the 4th paragraph.
>
> Joel
>
> On 12/5/2019 9:42 PM, Joel M. Halpern wrote:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0The normative behavior for the bits in various plac= es says that the
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0packet is punted to the control process.=C2=A0 In a= nd of itself, that is
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0fine.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0However, in order for that to be useful, the contro= l process has to
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0know
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0what to do with the packet when it gets there.=C2= =A0 In the classic case of
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0router redirect, this is coupled with definition of= various content to
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0be processed by the router control logic.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0In the case of this document, there is no normative= definition of what
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0the control process is to do with the packet.=C2=A0= And particularly
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0since in
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0many of the cases described the packet that is punt= ed still has an SRH,
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0normal packet processing would simply reach the sam= e "punt" step.=C2=A0 With
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0nowhere to punt it.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0You asssume in the examples that some forms of pars= ing that bypass the
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0NSH will take place.=C2=A0 But processing does not = take place by instinct or
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0magic.=C2=A0 It takes place because we write RFCs t= hat describe what has to
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0happen.=C2=A0 Without some definition of the requir= ed parsing, and I believe
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0(although I am guessing due to the lack of descript= ion) we also need
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0some normative description of what the control proc= ess is required
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0to do.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Note that in most OAM, we define the behavior that = is required, and
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0then
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0indicate where it is permitted to use the control p= lane to achieve it.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0This results in a clear specification, and implemen= tation flexibility.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Yours,
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Joel
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0On 12/5/2019 9:34 PM, Zafar Ali (zali) wrote:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Hi Joel,
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0I did not understand your comment. >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Can you please point to specific text= in the draft for which the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0draft
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0needs to define normative behavior fo= r the "node punt processor
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0look
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0past the SRH and make determinations = based on the content."?
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Thanks
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Regards =E2=80=A6 Zafar
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0*From: *ipv6 <ipv6-bounces@ietf.org
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:ipv6-bounces@ietf.org>> on behal= f of "Joel M. Halpern"
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<jmh@joelhalpern.com <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com>><= br> >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0*Date: *Wednesday, December 4, 2019 a= t 4:37 PM
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0*To: *Ole Troan <otroan@employees.org
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:otroan@employees.org>>, 6man WG &= lt;ipv6@ietf.org
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:ipv6@ietf.org>>,
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0SPRING WG <spring@ietf.org <mailto:spring@ietf.org>>
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0*Subject: *Re: 6man w.g. last call fo= r
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<draft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6-oam&g= t;
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0I re-read this draft, and I am afraid= it is currently
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0under-specified.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0In order for the various examples to = work, there is assumed
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0behavior by
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0the processor to which packets are pu= nted.=C2=A0=C2=A0I could not find
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0where this
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0normative behavior is described expli= citly.=C2=A0=C2=A0It appears that the
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0behavior requires that the node "= ;punt processor" look past the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0SRH and
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0make determinations based on the cont= ent.=C2=A0=C2=A0This needs to be
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0described
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0explicitly.=C2=A0=C2=A0And it needs s= ome discussion of why it is legitimate to
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0look past the SRH when the SRH does n= ot show SL=3D0.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Yours,
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Joel
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0On 12/4/2019 3:53 PM, Ole Troan wrote= :
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Hello,
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0As agreed in the working group session in Singapore, this >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 message starts a = new two week 6MAN Working Group Last Call on
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0advancing:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Title=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0: Operations, Administration, a= nd Maintenance
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0(OAM) in
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Segment Routing N= etworks with IPv6 Data plane (SRv6)
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Author=C2=A0=C2=A0 : Z. Ali, C. Filsfils, S. Matsushima, D.<= br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Voyer, M. Chen
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Filename : draft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6-oam-02
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Pages=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0: 23
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Date=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 : 2019-11-20
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6-oam/ >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 as a Proposed Sta= ndard.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Substantive comme= nts and statements of support for
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0publishing this
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 document should b= e directed to the mailing list.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Editorial suggest= ions can be sent to the author. This last
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0call will
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 end on the 18th o= f December 2019.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 To improve docume= nt quality and ensure that bugs are caught
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0as early
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 as possible, we w= ould require at least
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 two reviewers to = do a complete review of the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0document.=C2=A0=C2=A0Please let
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 the chairs know i= f you are willing to be a reviewer.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 The last call wil= l be forwarded to the spring working
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0group, with
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 discussion direct= ed to the ipv6 list.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Thanks,
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Bob & Ole, 6m= an co-chairs
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0-------------------------------------= -------------------------------
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 IETF IPv6 working= group mailing list
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0ipv6@ietf.org <mailto:ipv6@ietf.org> <mailto:ipv6@ietf.org>
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Administrative Re= quests:
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://www.ietf.org= /mailman/listinfo/ipv6
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0-------------------------------------= -------------------------------
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0-------------------------------------= -------------------------------
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0IETF IPv6 working group mailing list<= br> >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0ipv6@ietf.org <mailto:ipv6@ietf.org> <mailto:ipv6@ietf.org>
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0-------------------------------------= -------------------------------
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0---------------------------------------------------= -----------------
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0IETF IPv6 working group mailing list
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= ipv6@ietf.org <mailto:ipv6@ietf.org>
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Administrative Requests: https://w= ww.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0---------------------------------------------------= -----------------
>

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--00000000000083d6a8059a0fe090-- From nobody Thu Dec 19 07:07:04 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CB401200B3 for ; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 07:06:58 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=raszuk.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IC0MyS-ywyoT for ; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 07:06:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qv1-xf30.google.com (mail-qv1-xf30.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::f30]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 36E8E120059 for ; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 07:06:55 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qv1-xf30.google.com with SMTP id f16so2334881qvi.4 for ; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 07:06:55 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=raszuk.net; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=jE5M5H2HAbG2SWZU13l+A80u0xjotJ/XBZnX7CWF5y4=; b=dbx08u8ISgxVbGEtWchF1b4YGwDeFLa5v7fygRrN+tL+oTA+tVUKweSGxATFXD5oPa fI+f6VaV5cv4E0DiJwhxo4TsZPSbieSQjVWjF/htilNtm/KcPDPXIZzSuMdz6Qeh7qdw wwBpm6oqlMkhYek1tqdwK+qTmfTi2k4YovFw471IsoMbu3baKuX3t6buxovJTEOBQxEr uTZG7h3rRYMoLgV38YrE+QhAlBLTYofYu7fU1odix8laht0dXDEdZs1Qkj1bKTbTyYul YoctXad0mNgmShvd4xWJX2d5PfvtieXUqxHUrg4ipDmlPWwLF3L0//MfHsnJIhlN2ipg UlSg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=jE5M5H2HAbG2SWZU13l+A80u0xjotJ/XBZnX7CWF5y4=; b=QKJ8/8beB0v7k4tEsNjC2UX5gqC4Xzj2UkFGhAljjqyAdtLMRXyuVozce9pspR6SKO H9vDLY6PFgCQj4mc+lFTr0aW2hvke0x6h0GnTuWxHFwoJZPLhoWLeIR+L8gBTJu/M7y8 +sFcKtnJllbvlcNpAVOpiOIkKE+Q187MsPlnH+UkTiuXkSAY1XnqN8OdwSaNZlLymqp/ vll7h5rEX9i+dB98vRzkq0x6GQOucFhRVJx51IQ0nKEPKqgEqvb3VoOCLXPelrt/+wGS w+7XNkHoxwI3FCo8pcJCo28cMuBV1ddOfZWHWWcvgMQbb0ByeK08FTGpQoG0NavZBqhC Avfg== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAU5Y2VlCxs+l79YjgR9hQtKNkNzHSb18q3IrJU7Z9/jWuRobBtr 9hQoR7TZCTXOjZM5ieOujjieYRGBuQ5UmsB0V4f2Ew== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyTXxw4r7JNLjZDwMYcUb7d2lJiqc7ft+90e7ZQkXz0jOdUicAHsYhWIZQO5qM9fgESg9vKuh7GaKW32g5CP3M= X-Received: by 2002:ad4:408c:: with SMTP id l12mr8048095qvp.164.1576768014035; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 07:06:54 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <15bc440b-1dbc-0930-137f-f016ca527c2c@joelhalpern.com> <8FAF234D-B5C9-42C7-B483-F57C4ECB349F@cisco.com> <6c3eabf3-410d-ecb6-324f-967544b29a30@joelhalpern.com> <95afdc48-b88a-ab1f-f51f-13193ba5dc1c@joelhalpern.com> <8F662D6A-1720-4D31-AEB8-6A3F7E40E996@cisco.com> <13540a0f-a653-2e52-d253-062b647454d7@joelhalpern.com> In-Reply-To: From: Robert Raszuk Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2019 16:06:39 +0100 Message-ID: To: Greg Mirsky Cc: "Joel M. Halpern" , 6man WG , SPRING WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000005ec4df059a0fe997" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] 6man w.g. last call for - END.OTP X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2019 15:06:58 -0000 --0000000000005ec4df059a0fe997 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Greg, > I believe that iOAM already has defined a method to collect timestamps > and the method to trigger timestamping described in the draft we're > discussing is duplicating that. Would you agree? Nope not at all. The timestamping is needed in the SR paths in the outer header. iOAM says: Scope: This document defines the data fields and associated data types for in-situ OAM. The in-situ OAM data field can be transported by a variety of transport protocols, including NSH, Segment Routing, Geneve, IPv6, or IPv4. * Specification details for these different transport protocols are outside the scope of this document.* I think current SR OAM draft fills that gap. Thx R. On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 3:49 PM Greg Mirsky wrote: > Hi Robert, > could you please clarify your statement "there is huge value > in defining packet timestamping in all oam documents IETF produces these > days"? Is that applicable to Active OAM methods or to other OAM > methodologies, including, Passive and Hybrid? If the timestamping operati= on > is entirely local to a networking node is applied to a data flow, in othe= r > words, the timestamp value is not stored in the forwarded downstream data > packet, which performance metric your expect to produce? Or is the > expectation to use the Alternate Marking methodology, as described in RFC > 8321, in combination with the local timestamping? If the product of the > timestamping operation is stored in the data packet, then how is that > different from what is already described in the iOAM draft you've > referenced? I believe that iOAM already has defined a method to collect > timestamps and the method to trigger timestamping described in the draft > we're discussing is duplicating that. Would you agree? > > Regards, > Greg > > On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 1:56 AM Robert Raszuk wrote: > >> Hi Joel, >> >> > However, there is no defined behavior that I know of that can make us= e >> > of this timestamp. >> >> Not sure how to read that statement. Are you expecting IETF draft to tel= l >> vendor that computing delta of N values is needed ? Or is IETF draft nee= ded >> to tell packet analyzers to evaluate the quality of the path based on >> packets timestamps ? Yes routers may never be involved in such processin= g, >> but other network monitoring components do. >> >> Sure current networking in this regard is in stone ages, but there are >> real efforts and working code which goes beyond that already in place. >> Example: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-data-08 >> >> So there is huge value in defining packet timestamping in all >> oam documents IETF produces these days and it would be rather disservice= to >> remove such important option. >> >> Thx, >> r. >> >> >> On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 1:45 AM Joel M. Halpern >> wrote: >> >>> If I am reading the draft correctly, the difference between END.OP and >>> END.OTP is that an internal process is to attach in some internal >>> location a timestamp to the packet. In the abstract, I understand why >>> such cna be useful. >>> >>> However, there is no defined behavior that I know of that can make use >>> of this timestamp. Until such a behavior is defined, what is the value >>> in defining the END.OTP behavior? (Taken in the extreme, until there i= s >>> such a definition, any implementation which treated END.OTP as END.OP >>> would seem to be indistinguishable from proper operation in terms of >>> behavior on the wire.) >>> >>> Yours, >>> Joel >>> >>> On 12/18/2019 7:01 PM, Zafar Ali (zali) wrote: >>> > Hi Joel, >>> > >>> > Thanks for your review. >>> > >>> > The processing details were embedded in the Section 4. >>> > >>> > We brought them up in the Section 3 and also added additional >>> normative >>> > language in Section 4. >>> > >>> > We have been maintaining the latest version of the draft in the >>> Github.. >>> > >>> > However, we also posted the latest diffs, which addresses your >>> comments >>> > as follows: >>> > >>> > * In the new revision, we have added normative text at the beginnin= g >>> > of 3.1.1 where O-bit is defined. >>> > * Sections 3.3 and 3.4 adds normative texts for OAM SIDs. >>> > * 4.1.2 and 4.2.2 further adds additional normative text for Ping a= nd >>> > traceroute use-cases, respectively. >>> > >>> > Latest version is kept in the Github and also uploaded as >>> > https://www.ietf.org/staging/draft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6-oam-03.txt. >>> > >>> > Thanks >>> > >>> > Regards =E2=80=A6 Zafar >>> > >>> > *From: *"Joel M. Halpern" >>> > *Date: *Thursday, December 5, 2019 at 10:01 PM >>> > *To: *"Zafar Ali (zali)" , 6man WG , >>> > SPRING WG >>> > *Subject: *Re: 6man w.g. last call for >>> >>> > >>> > Sorry, minor typo. SRH, not NSH, in the 4th paragraph. >>> > >>> > Joel >>> > >>> > On 12/5/2019 9:42 PM, Joel M. Halpern wrote: >>> > >>> > The normative behavior for the bits in various places says that t= he >>> > >>> > packet is punted to the control process. In and of itself, that = is >>> > fine. >>> > >>> > However, in order for that to be useful, the control process has = to >>> > know >>> > >>> > what to do with the packet when it gets there. In the classic >>> case of >>> > >>> > router redirect, this is coupled with definition of various >>> content to >>> > >>> > be processed by the router control logic. >>> > >>> > In the case of this document, there is no normative definition of >>> what >>> > >>> > the control process is to do with the packet. And particularly >>> > since in >>> > >>> > many of the cases described the packet that is punted still has a= n >>> SRH, >>> > >>> > normal packet processing would simply reach the same "punt" step. >>> With >>> > >>> > nowhere to punt it. >>> > >>> > You asssume in the examples that some forms of parsing that bypas= s >>> the >>> > >>> > NSH will take place. But processing does not take place by >>> instinct or >>> > >>> > magic. It takes place because we write RFCs that describe what >>> has to >>> > >>> > happen. Without some definition of the required parsing, and I >>> believe >>> > >>> > (although I am guessing due to the lack of description) we also >>> need >>> > >>> > some normative description of what the control process is require= d >>> > to do. >>> > >>> > Note that in most OAM, we define the behavior that is required, a= nd >>> > then >>> > >>> > indicate where it is permitted to use the control plane to achiev= e >>> it. >>> > >>> > This results in a clear specification, and implementation >>> flexibility. >>> > >>> > Yours, >>> > >>> > Joel >>> > >>> > On 12/5/2019 9:34 PM, Zafar Ali (zali) wrote: >>> > >>> > Hi Joel, >>> > >>> > I did not understand your comment. >>> > >>> > Can you please point to specific text in the draft for which >>> the >>> > draft >>> > >>> > needs to define normative behavior for the "node punt process= or >>> > look >>> > >>> > past the SRH and make determinations based on the content."? >>> > >>> > Thanks >>> > >>> > Regards =E2=80=A6 Zafar >>> > >>> > *From: *ipv6 >> > > on behalf of "Joel M. Halpern= " >>> > >>> > >> jmh@joelhalpern.com>> >>> > >>> > *Date: *Wednesday, December 4, 2019 at 4:37 PM >>> > >>> > *To: *Ole Troan >> > >, 6man WG >> > >, >>> > >>> > SPRING WG > >>> > >>> > *Subject: *Re: 6man w.g. last call for >>> > >>> > >>> > I re-read this draft, and I am afraid it is currently >>> > under-specified. >>> > >>> > In order for the various examples to work, there is assumed >>> > behavior by >>> > >>> > the processor to which packets are punted. I could not find >>> > where this >>> > >>> > normative behavior is described explicitly. It appears that >>> the >>> > >>> > behavior requires that the node "punt processor" look past th= e >>> > SRH and >>> > >>> > make determinations based on the content. This needs to be >>> > described >>> > >>> > explicitly. And it needs some discussion of why it is >>> legitimate to >>> > >>> > look past the SRH when the SRH does not show SL=3D0. >>> > >>> > Yours, >>> > >>> > Joel >>> > >>> > On 12/4/2019 3:53 PM, Ole Troan wrote: >>> > >>> > Hello, >>> > >>> > As agreed in the working group session in Singapore= , >>> this >>> > >>> > message starts a new two week 6MAN Working Group Last >>> Call on >>> > >>> > advancing: >>> > >>> > Title : Operations, Administration, and >>> Maintenance >>> > (OAM) in >>> > >>> > Segment Routing Networks with IPv6 Data plane (SRv6) >>> > >>> > Author : Z. Ali, C. Filsfils, S. Matsushima, D. >>> > Voyer, M. Chen >>> > >>> > Filename : draft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6-oam-02 >>> > >>> > Pages : 23 >>> > >>> > Date : 2019-11-20 >>> > >>> > >>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6-oam/ >>> > >>> > as a Proposed Standard. >>> > >>> > Substantive comments and statements of support for >>> > publishing this >>> > >>> > document should be directed to the mailing list. >>> > >>> > Editorial suggestions can be sent to the author. This la= st >>> > call will >>> > >>> > end on the 18th of December 2019. >>> > >>> > To improve document quality and ensure that bugs are >>> caught >>> > as early >>> > >>> > as possible, we would require at least >>> > >>> > two reviewers to do a complete review of the >>> > document. Please let >>> > >>> > the chairs know if you are willing to be a reviewer. >>> > >>> > The last call will be forwarded to the spring working >>> > group, with >>> > >>> > discussion directed to the ipv6 list. >>> > >>> > Thanks, >>> > >>> > Bob & Ole, 6man co-chairs >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> > >>> > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list >>> > >>> > ipv6@ietf.org >>> > >>> > Administrative Requests: >>> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> > >>> > >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> > >>> > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list >>> > >>> > ipv6@ietf.org >>> > >>> > Administrative Requests: >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 >>> > >>> > >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> > >>> > >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> > >>> > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list >>> > >>> > ipv6@ietf.org >>> > >>> > Administrative Requests: >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 >>> > >>> > >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> > >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> spring mailing list >>> spring@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring >>> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> IETF IPv6 working group mailing list >> ipv6@ietf.org >> Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > --0000000000005ec4df059a0fe997 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Greg,

> I believe that iOAM alrea= dy has defined a method to collect timestamps=C2=A0
> and the = method to trigger timestamping described in the draft we're=C2=A0
=
> discussing is duplicating that. Would you agree?=C2=A0=C2=A0
<= /div>

Nope not at all.=C2=A0

Th= e timestamping is needed in the SR paths in the outer header. iOAM says:

=
   Scope: This document defines the data fields and associated data
   types for in-situ OAM.  The in-situ OAM data field can be transported
   by a variety of transport protocols, including NSH, Segment Routing,
   Geneve, IPv6, or IPv4.  Specification details for these different
   transport protocols are outside the scope of this document.

I think current SR OAM draft fills=
 that gap.=C2=A0

Thx
R.

On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 3:49 PM Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Robert,<= div>could you please clarify your statement "there is huge value in=C2= =A0defining=C2=A0packet timestamping in all oam=C2=A0documents IETF produce= s these days"? Is that applicable to Active OAM methods or to other OA= M methodologies, including, Passive and Hybrid? If the timestamping operati= on is entirely local to a networking node is applied to a data flow, in oth= er words, the timestamp value is not stored in the forwarded downstream dat= a packet, which performance metric your expect to produce? Or is the expect= ation to use the Alternate Marking methodology, as described in RFC 8321, i= n combination with the local timestamping? If the product of the timestampi= ng operation is stored in the data packet, then how is that different from = what is already described in the iOAM draft you've referenced? I believ= e that iOAM already has defined a method to collect timestamps and the meth= od to trigger timestamping described in the draft we're discussing is d= uplicating that. Would you agree?

Regards,
Greg

On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 1:56 AM Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> wrote:=
Hi Joel,

>=C2=A0= However, there is no defined behavior that I know of that can make use=C2= =A0
>=C2=A0of this timestamp.=C2=A0 =C2=A0

Not sure how to read that statement. Are = you expecting IETF draft to tell vendor that computing=C2=A0delta of N valu= es is needed ? Or is IETF draft needed to tell packet analyzers to evaluate= the quality of the path based on packets timestamps ? Yes routers may neve= r be involved in such processing, but other network monitoring components d= o.=C2=A0

Sure current networking in th= is regard is in stone ages, but there are real efforts and working code whi= ch goes beyond that already in place. Example: https://tools.ie= tf.org/html/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-data-08

So th= ere is huge value in=C2=A0defining=C2=A0packet timestamping in all oam=C2= =A0documents IETF produces these days and it would be rather disservice to = remove such important option.=C2=A0

Thx,
r.


On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 1:45 AM Joel M. Halpe= rn <jmh@joelhal= pern.com> wrote:
If I am reading the draft correctly, the difference between END.OP = and
END.OTP is that an internal process is to attach in some internal
location a timestamp to the packet.=C2=A0 In the abstract, I understand why=
such cna be useful.

However, there is no defined behavior that I know of that can make use
of this timestamp.=C2=A0 Until such a behavior is defined, what is the valu= e
in defining the END.OTP behavior?=C2=A0 (Taken in the extreme, until there = is
such a definition, any implementation which treated END.OTP as END.OP
would seem to be indistinguishable from proper operation in terms of
behavior on the wire.)

Yours,
Joel

On 12/18/2019 7:01 PM, Zafar Ali (zali) wrote:
> Hi Joel,
>
> Thanks for your review.
>
> The processing details were embedded in the Section 4.
>
> We brought them up in the Section 3 and also added additional normativ= e
> language in Section 4.
>
> We have been maintaining the latest version of the draft in the Github= ..
>
> However, we also posted the latest diffs, which addresses your comment= s
> as follows:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0* In the new revision, we have added normative text at the= beginning
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0of 3.1.1 where O-bit is defined.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0* Sections 3.3 and 3.4 adds normative texts for OAM SIDs.<= br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0* 4.1.2 and 4.2.2 further adds additional normative text f= or Ping and
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0traceroute use-cases, respectively.
>
> Latest version is kept in the Github and also uploaded as
> https://www.ietf.org/staging= /draft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6-oam-03.txt.
>
> Thanks
>
> Regards =E2=80=A6 Zafar
>
> *From: *"Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>
> *Date: *Thursday, December 5, 2019 at 10:01 PM
> *To: *"Zafar Ali (zali)" <zali@cisco.com>, 6man WG <ipv6@ietf.org>,
> SPRING WG <spr= ing@ietf.org>
> *Subject: *Re: 6man w.g. last call for <draft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6= -oam>
>
> Sorry, minor typo.=C2=A0=C2=A0SRH, not NSH, in the 4th paragraph.
>
> Joel
>
> On 12/5/2019 9:42 PM, Joel M. Halpern wrote:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0The normative behavior for the bits in various plac= es says that the
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0packet is punted to the control process.=C2=A0 In a= nd of itself, that is
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0fine.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0However, in order for that to be useful, the contro= l process has to
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0know
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0what to do with the packet when it gets there.=C2= =A0 In the classic case of
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0router redirect, this is coupled with definition of= various content to
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0be processed by the router control logic.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0In the case of this document, there is no normative= definition of what
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0the control process is to do with the packet.=C2=A0= And particularly
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0since in
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0many of the cases described the packet that is punt= ed still has an SRH,
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0normal packet processing would simply reach the sam= e "punt" step.=C2=A0 With
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0nowhere to punt it.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0You asssume in the examples that some forms of pars= ing that bypass the
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0NSH will take place.=C2=A0 But processing does not = take place by instinct or
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0magic.=C2=A0 It takes place because we write RFCs t= hat describe what has to
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0happen.=C2=A0 Without some definition of the requir= ed parsing, and I believe
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0(although I am guessing due to the lack of descript= ion) we also need
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0some normative description of what the control proc= ess is required
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0to do.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Note that in most OAM, we define the behavior that = is required, and
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0then
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0indicate where it is permitted to use the control p= lane to achieve it.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0This results in a clear specification, and implemen= tation flexibility.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Yours,
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Joel
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0On 12/5/2019 9:34 PM, Zafar Ali (zali) wrote:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Hi Joel,
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0I did not understand your comment. >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Can you please point to specific text= in the draft for which the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0draft
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0needs to define normative behavior fo= r the "node punt processor
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0look
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0past the SRH and make determinations = based on the content."?
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Thanks
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Regards =E2=80=A6 Zafar
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0*From: *ipv6 <ipv6-bounces@ietf.org
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:ipv6-bounces@ietf.org>> on behal= f of "Joel M. Halpern"
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<jmh@joelhalpern.com <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com>> >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0*Date: *Wednesday, December 4, 2019 a= t 4:37 PM
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0*To: *Ole Troan <otroan@employees.org
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:otroan@employees.org>>, 6man WG &= lt;ipv6@ietf.org
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:ipv6@ietf.org>>,
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0SPRING WG <spring@ietf.org <mailto:spring@ietf.org>>
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0*Subject: *Re: 6man w.g. last call fo= r
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<draft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6-oam&g= t;
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0I re-read this draft, and I am afraid= it is currently
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0under-specified.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0In order for the various examples to = work, there is assumed
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0behavior by
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0the processor to which packets are pu= nted.=C2=A0=C2=A0I could not find
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0where this
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0normative behavior is described expli= citly.=C2=A0=C2=A0It appears that the
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0behavior requires that the node "= ;punt processor" look past the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0SRH and
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0make determinations based on the cont= ent.=C2=A0=C2=A0This needs to be
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0described
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0explicitly.=C2=A0=C2=A0And it needs s= ome discussion of why it is legitimate to
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0look past the SRH when the SRH does n= ot show SL=3D0.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Yours,
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Joel
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0On 12/4/2019 3:53 PM, Ole Troan wrote= :
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Hello,
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0As agreed in the working group session in Singapore, this >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 message starts a = new two week 6MAN Working Group Last Call on
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0advancing:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Title=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0: Operations, Administration, a= nd Maintenance
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0(OAM) in
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Segment Routing N= etworks with IPv6 Data plane (SRv6)
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Author=C2=A0=C2=A0 : Z. Ali, C. Filsfils, S. Matsushima, D.<= br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Voyer, M. Chen
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Filename : draft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6-oam-02
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Pages=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0: 23
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Date=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 : 2019-11-20
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6-oam/ >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 as a Proposed Sta= ndard.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Substantive comme= nts and statements of support for
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0publishing this
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 document should b= e directed to the mailing list.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Editorial suggest= ions can be sent to the author. This last
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0call will
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 end on the 18th o= f December 2019.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 To improve docume= nt quality and ensure that bugs are caught
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0as early
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 as possible, we w= ould require at least
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 two reviewers to = do a complete review of the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0document.=C2=A0=C2=A0Please let
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 the chairs know i= f you are willing to be a reviewer.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 The last call wil= l be forwarded to the spring working
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0group, with
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 discussion direct= ed to the ipv6 list.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Thanks,
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Bob & Ole, 6m= an co-chairs
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0-------------------------------------= -------------------------------
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 IETF IPv6 working= group mailing list
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0ipv6@ietf.org <mailto:ipv6@ietf.org> <mailto:ipv6@ietf.org>
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Administrative Re= quests:
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://www.ietf.org= /mailman/listinfo/ipv6
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0-------------------------------------= -------------------------------
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0-------------------------------------= -------------------------------
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0IETF IPv6 working group mailing list<= br> >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0ipv6@ietf.org <mailto:ipv6@ietf.org> <mailto:ipv6@ietf.org>
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0-------------------------------------= -------------------------------
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0---------------------------------------------------= -----------------
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0IETF IPv6 working group mailing list
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= ipv6@ietf.org <mailto:ipv6@ietf.org>
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>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Administrative Requests: https://w= ww.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0---------------------------------------------------= -----------------
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--0000000000005ec4df059a0fe997-- From nobody Thu Dec 19 07:20:26 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 058381200A4; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 07:20:19 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.997 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.997 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7vk5HZmvDhtT; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 07:20:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-lj1-x22a.google.com (mail-lj1-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::22a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D4997120059; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 07:20:14 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-lj1-x22a.google.com with SMTP id z22so1837148ljg.1; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 07:20:14 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=dpq8uZhZbRkVdtx7hwYDXxh58dJDgVrNkBA/Ubn8Ha4=; b=RALerbZzvSD78+V78WKkoZipjxtVjMCYwgsYWvA4rqR9RbnNyYJXuarVAR5E/30b+l I9KVanSlWYvwVTwzerQOFJxyPGIWXzMEGLDJO2CZwpq4DaYjrHx7Xzs4ffjvgHbzISdK 5hpnZtr3lEgQWiVIeay/arA9jHPL34IqR1Td9LMmOWZRtjj8C7dbs0uZawc6ZZPBTtU8 fOgje+x2H2zLHVa8Wn/xjSQUhZbNWo81yzIC+yx8wKEUQLzCYqQV/ckcobV53OYqmS6l In/knANwjgh1qmk1c3yEnUq0ii/0rnn9+Ly4M33Rxk4ypy0Ghzn2r+L+5TpgfMDlEA1D VU4w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=dpq8uZhZbRkVdtx7hwYDXxh58dJDgVrNkBA/Ubn8Ha4=; b=HGnIev+1X7QPCq57rsX0uyOZ0JoOFaD51Ub3A8OKPg9PYuv8OKDby2+h6vO5i5PbnQ jFVI5FWCVL5HXJ06EPHM2VW935yGNUHSi1pTPeh9cHA868LRAxNRaMloHP+ZnIRGlU09 dZbaH3DirTPRZZ7NM2ypGj/XQogbu+6OMeyIhomR39wNv8NahYaMpnSIUMYNCGRLZmAl fss0wQcNVyh1udyjkSjh6qs536XDv0z3QX4hpGN/w5jCjRmd0oLDtWdgaCgzNc91cfpm 3LsZTejjPAsAeY/Sa/SIpNyADICuoCZtQMGikGglnj8v1chNxyLvFVLGyBjfFnTjIHcL Upqg== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXh3mga11m+bw1y3wvoIQeYZ1JVuCxcOSnzr8XBtvmD3YUSiSKc HJ2GsTz6msV9JilSj0mYPVk6D5S3kn8IPcBLgBw= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwnXCQC8RlgYbXTyqRi5/eAQC13bcWNVmBLNo5yGoYF/fYCUbNvk9+CstkHEahmMN7CNSJ2TQxzq06gvwvpLzg= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:b0db:: with SMTP id g27mr6643335ljl.74.1576768813050; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 07:20:13 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <15bc440b-1dbc-0930-137f-f016ca527c2c@joelhalpern.com> <8FAF234D-B5C9-42C7-B483-F57C4ECB349F@cisco.com> <6c3eabf3-410d-ecb6-324f-967544b29a30@joelhalpern.com> <95afdc48-b88a-ab1f-f51f-13193ba5dc1c@joelhalpern.com> <8F662D6A-1720-4D31-AEB8-6A3F7E40E996@cisco.com> <13540a0f-a653-2e52-d253-062b647454d7@joelhalpern.com> In-Reply-To: From: Greg Mirsky Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2019 07:20:02 -0800 Message-ID: To: Robert Raszuk Cc: "Joel M. Halpern" , 6man WG , SPRING WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000feb015059a10183d" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] 6man w.g. last call for - END.OTP X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2019 15:20:19 -0000 --000000000000feb015059a10183d Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Robert, thank you for your quick response. Could you please help me understand how this proposed mechanism complements what is defined in the combination of i= OAM data and iOAM in IPv6 drafts? As I understand it, the data draft already includes the mechanism to trigger the timestamp collection on a node by setting the appropriate flags in the IOAM-Trace-Type field. And the IOAM-Trace-Type field is part of iOAM in IPv6 encapsulation. If that is the case, I don't see the gap that needs to be closed but the duplication of functionality by the proposed END.OTP function. Regards, Greg On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 7:06 AM Robert Raszuk wrote: > Hi Greg, > > > I believe that iOAM already has defined a method to collect timestamps > > and the method to trigger timestamping described in the draft we're > > discussing is duplicating that. Would you agree? > > Nope not at all. > > The timestamping is needed in the SR paths in the outer header. iOAM says= : > > Scope: This document defines the data fields and associated data > types for in-situ OAM. The in-situ OAM data field can be transported > by a variety of transport protocols, including NSH, Segment Routing, > Geneve, IPv6, or IPv4. * Specification details for these different > transport protocols are outside the scope of this document.* > > > I think current SR OAM draft fills that gap. > > Thx > R. > > > On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 3:49 PM Greg Mirsky wrote= : > >> Hi Robert, >> could you please clarify your statement "there is huge value >> in defining packet timestamping in all oam documents IETF produces these >> days"? Is that applicable to Active OAM methods or to other OAM >> methodologies, including, Passive and Hybrid? If the timestamping operat= ion >> is entirely local to a networking node is applied to a data flow, in oth= er >> words, the timestamp value is not stored in the forwarded downstream dat= a >> packet, which performance metric your expect to produce? Or is the >> expectation to use the Alternate Marking methodology, as described in RF= C >> 8321, in combination with the local timestamping? If the product of the >> timestamping operation is stored in the data packet, then how is that >> different from what is already described in the iOAM draft you've >> referenced? I believe that iOAM already has defined a method to collect >> timestamps and the method to trigger timestamping described in the draft >> we're discussing is duplicating that. Would you agree? >> >> Regards, >> Greg >> >> On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 1:56 AM Robert Raszuk wrote: >> >>> Hi Joel, >>> >>> > However, there is no defined behavior that I know of that can make >>> use >>> > of this timestamp. >>> >>> Not sure how to read that statement. Are you expecting IETF draft to >>> tell vendor that computing delta of N values is needed ? Or is IETF dra= ft >>> needed to tell packet analyzers to evaluate the quality of the path bas= ed >>> on packets timestamps ? Yes routers may never be involved in such >>> processing, but other network monitoring components do. >>> >>> Sure current networking in this regard is in stone ages, but there are >>> real efforts and working code which goes beyond that already in place. >>> Example: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-data-08 >>> >>> So there is huge value in defining packet timestamping in all >>> oam documents IETF produces these days and it would be rather disservic= e to >>> remove such important option. >>> >>> Thx, >>> r. >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 1:45 AM Joel M. Halpern >>> wrote: >>> >>>> If I am reading the draft correctly, the difference between END.OP and >>>> END.OTP is that an internal process is to attach in some internal >>>> location a timestamp to the packet. In the abstract, I understand why >>>> such cna be useful. >>>> >>>> However, there is no defined behavior that I know of that can make use >>>> of this timestamp. Until such a behavior is defined, what is the valu= e >>>> in defining the END.OTP behavior? (Taken in the extreme, until there >>>> is >>>> such a definition, any implementation which treated END.OTP as END.OP >>>> would seem to be indistinguishable from proper operation in terms of >>>> behavior on the wire.) >>>> >>>> Yours, >>>> Joel >>>> >>>> On 12/18/2019 7:01 PM, Zafar Ali (zali) wrote: >>>> > Hi Joel, >>>> > >>>> > Thanks for your review. >>>> > >>>> > The processing details were embedded in the Section 4. >>>> > >>>> > We brought them up in the Section 3 and also added additional >>>> normative >>>> > language in Section 4. >>>> > >>>> > We have been maintaining the latest version of the draft in the >>>> Github.. >>>> > >>>> > However, we also posted the latest diffs, which addresses your >>>> comments >>>> > as follows: >>>> > >>>> > * In the new revision, we have added normative text at the beginni= ng >>>> > of 3.1.1 where O-bit is defined. >>>> > * Sections 3.3 and 3.4 adds normative texts for OAM SIDs. >>>> > * 4.1.2 and 4.2.2 further adds additional normative text for Ping >>>> and >>>> > traceroute use-cases, respectively. >>>> > >>>> > Latest version is kept in the Github and also uploaded as >>>> > https://www.ietf.org/staging/draft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6-oam-03.txt. >>>> > >>>> > Thanks >>>> > >>>> > Regards =E2=80=A6 Zafar >>>> > >>>> > *From: *"Joel M. Halpern" >>>> > *Date: *Thursday, December 5, 2019 at 10:01 PM >>>> > *To: *"Zafar Ali (zali)" , 6man WG , >>>> > SPRING WG >>>> > *Subject: *Re: 6man w.g. last call for >>>> >>>> > >>>> > Sorry, minor typo. SRH, not NSH, in the 4th paragraph. >>>> > >>>> > Joel >>>> > >>>> > On 12/5/2019 9:42 PM, Joel M. Halpern wrote: >>>> > >>>> > The normative behavior for the bits in various places says that >>>> the >>>> > >>>> > packet is punted to the control process. In and of itself, that >>>> is >>>> > fine. >>>> > >>>> > However, in order for that to be useful, the control process has >>>> to >>>> > know >>>> > >>>> > what to do with the packet when it gets there. In the classic >>>> case of >>>> > >>>> > router redirect, this is coupled with definition of various >>>> content to >>>> > >>>> > be processed by the router control logic. >>>> > >>>> > In the case of this document, there is no normative definition o= f >>>> what >>>> > >>>> > the control process is to do with the packet. And particularly >>>> > since in >>>> > >>>> > many of the cases described the packet that is punted still has >>>> an SRH, >>>> > >>>> > normal packet processing would simply reach the same "punt" >>>> step. With >>>> > >>>> > nowhere to punt it. >>>> > >>>> > You asssume in the examples that some forms of parsing that >>>> bypass the >>>> > >>>> > NSH will take place. But processing does not take place by >>>> instinct or >>>> > >>>> > magic. It takes place because we write RFCs that describe what >>>> has to >>>> > >>>> > happen. Without some definition of the required parsing, and I >>>> believe >>>> > >>>> > (although I am guessing due to the lack of description) we also >>>> need >>>> > >>>> > some normative description of what the control process is requir= ed >>>> > to do. >>>> > >>>> > Note that in most OAM, we define the behavior that is required, >>>> and >>>> > then >>>> > >>>> > indicate where it is permitted to use the control plane to >>>> achieve it. >>>> > >>>> > This results in a clear specification, and implementation >>>> flexibility. >>>> > >>>> > Yours, >>>> > >>>> > Joel >>>> > >>>> > On 12/5/2019 9:34 PM, Zafar Ali (zali) wrote: >>>> > >>>> > Hi Joel, >>>> > >>>> > I did not understand your comment. >>>> > >>>> > Can you please point to specific text in the draft for which >>>> the >>>> > draft >>>> > >>>> > needs to define normative behavior for the "node punt >>>> processor >>>> > look >>>> > >>>> > past the SRH and make determinations based on the content."? >>>> > >>>> > Thanks >>>> > >>>> > Regards =E2=80=A6 Zafar >>>> > >>>> > *From: *ipv6 >>> > > on behalf of "Joel M. >>>> Halpern" >>>> > >>>> > >>> jmh@joelhalpern.com>> >>>> > >>>> > *Date: *Wednesday, December 4, 2019 at 4:37 PM >>>> > >>>> > *To: *Ole Troan >>> > >, 6man WG >>> > >, >>>> > >>>> > SPRING WG > >>>> > >>>> > *Subject: *Re: 6man w.g. last call for >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > I re-read this draft, and I am afraid it is currently >>>> > under-specified. >>>> > >>>> > In order for the various examples to work, there is assumed >>>> > behavior by >>>> > >>>> > the processor to which packets are punted. I could not find >>>> > where this >>>> > >>>> > normative behavior is described explicitly. It appears that >>>> the >>>> > >>>> > behavior requires that the node "punt processor" look past t= he >>>> > SRH and >>>> > >>>> > make determinations based on the content. This needs to be >>>> > described >>>> > >>>> > explicitly. And it needs some discussion of why it is >>>> legitimate to >>>> > >>>> > look past the SRH when the SRH does not show SL=3D0. >>>> > >>>> > Yours, >>>> > >>>> > Joel >>>> > >>>> > On 12/4/2019 3:53 PM, Ole Troan wrote: >>>> > >>>> > Hello, >>>> > >>>> > As agreed in the working group session in >>>> Singapore, this >>>> > >>>> > message starts a new two week 6MAN Working Group Last >>>> Call on >>>> > >>>> > advancing: >>>> > >>>> > Title : Operations, Administration, and >>>> Maintenance >>>> > (OAM) in >>>> > >>>> > Segment Routing Networks with IPv6 Data plane (SRv6) >>>> > >>>> > Author : Z. Ali, C. Filsfils, S. Matsushima, D. >>>> > Voyer, M. Chen >>>> > >>>> > Filename : draft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6-oam-02 >>>> > >>>> > Pages : 23 >>>> > >>>> > Date : 2019-11-20 >>>> > >>>> > >>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6-oam/ >>>> > >>>> > as a Proposed Standard. >>>> > >>>> > Substantive comments and statements of support for >>>> > publishing this >>>> > >>>> > document should be directed to the mailing list. >>>> > >>>> > Editorial suggestions can be sent to the author. This >>>> last >>>> > call will >>>> > >>>> > end on the 18th of December 2019. >>>> > >>>> > To improve document quality and ensure that bugs are >>>> caught >>>> > as early >>>> > >>>> > as possible, we would require at least >>>> > >>>> > two reviewers to do a complete review of the >>>> > document. Please let >>>> > >>>> > the chairs know if you are willing to be a reviewer. >>>> > >>>> > The last call will be forwarded to the spring working >>>> > group, with >>>> > >>>> > discussion directed to the ipv6 list. >>>> > >>>> > Thanks, >>>> > >>>> > Bob & Ole, 6man co-chairs >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> > >>>> > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list >>>> > >>>> > ipv6@ietf.org >>>> > >>>> > Administrative Requests: >>>> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> > >>>> > >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> > >>>> > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list >>>> > >>>> > ipv6@ietf.org >>>> > >>>> > Administrative Requests: >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 >>>> > >>>> > >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> > >>>> > >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> > >>>> > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list >>>> > >>>> > ipv6@ietf.org >>>> > >>>> > Administrative Requests: >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 >>>> > >>>> > >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> > >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> spring mailing list >>>> spring@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring >>>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> IETF IPv6 working group mailing list >>> ipv6@ietf.org >>> Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >> --000000000000feb015059a10183d Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Robert,
thank you for your quick response. Could yo= u please help me understand how this proposed mechanism complements what is= defined in the combination of iOAM data and iOAM in IPv6 drafts? As I = understand it, the data draft already includes the mechanism to trigger the= timestamp collection on a node by setting the appropriate flags in the=C2= =A0IOAM-Trace-Type field. And the IOAM-Trace-Type field is part of iOAM in = IPv6 encapsulation. If that is=C2=A0the case, I don't see the gap that = needs to be closed but the duplication of functionality by the proposed END= .OTP function.

Regards,
Greg
=
On Thu= , Dec 19, 2019 at 7:06 AM Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> wrote:
Hi Greg,

> I = believe that iOAM already has defined a method to collect timestamps=C2=A0<= /div>
> and the method to trigger timestamping described in the draf= t we're=C2=A0
> discussing is duplicating that. Would you = agree?=C2=A0=C2=A0

Nope not at all.=C2=A0

The timestamping is needed in the SR paths in the oute= r header. iOAM says:

 =
  Scope: This document defines the data fields and associated data
   types for in-situ OAM.  The in-situ OAM data field can be transported
   by a variety of transport protocols, including NSH, Segment Routing,
   Geneve, IPv6, or IPv4.  Specification details for these different
   transport protocols are outside the scope of this document.

I think=
 current SR OAM draft fills that gap.=C2=A0

Thx
R.

On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 3:49 PM Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com> w= rote:
Hi Robert,
could you please clarify your statement "there= is huge value in=C2=A0defining=C2=A0packet timestamping in all oam=C2=A0do= cuments IETF produces these days"? Is that applicable to Active OAM me= thods or to other OAM methodologies, including, Passive and Hybrid? If the = timestamping operation is entirely local to a networking node is applied to= a data flow, in other words, the timestamp value is not stored in the forw= arded downstream data packet, which performance metric your expect to produ= ce? Or is the expectation to use the Alternate Marking methodology, as desc= ribed in RFC 8321, in combination with the local timestamping? If the produ= ct of the timestamping operation is stored in the data packet, then how is = that different from what is already described in the iOAM draft you've = referenced? I believe that iOAM already has defined a method to collect tim= estamps and the method to trigger timestamping described in the draft we= 9;re discussing is duplicating that. Would you agree?

<= div>Regards,
Greg

On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 1:56 AM Robert Ras= zuk <robert@raszu= k.net> wrote:
Hi Joel,

>=C2=A0 However, there is no defined behavior that I know of t= hat can make use=C2=A0
>=C2=A0of this timestamp.= =C2=A0 =C2=A0

Not sure how to read= that statement. Are you expecting IETF draft to tell vendor that computing= =C2=A0delta of N values is needed ? Or is IETF draft needed to tell packet = analyzers to evaluate the quality of the path based on packets timestamps ?= Yes routers may never be involved in such processing, but other network mo= nitoring components do.=C2=A0

Sure cur= rent networking in this regard is in stone ages, but there are real efforts= and working code which goes beyond that already in place. Example: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-data-08

So there is huge value in=C2=A0defining=C2=A0packet timesta= mping in all oam=C2=A0documents IETF produces these days and it would be ra= ther disservice to remove such important option.=C2=A0

=
Thx,
r.


On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 1:= 45 AM Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com> wrote:
If I am reading the draft correctly, the differe= nce between END.OP and
END.OTP is that an internal process is to attach in some internal
location a timestamp to the packet.=C2=A0 In the abstract, I understand why=
such cna be useful.

However, there is no defined behavior that I know of that can make use
of this timestamp.=C2=A0 Until such a behavior is defined, what is the valu= e
in defining the END.OTP behavior?=C2=A0 (Taken in the extreme, until there = is
such a definition, any implementation which treated END.OTP as END.OP
would seem to be indistinguishable from proper operation in terms of
behavior on the wire.)

Yours,
Joel

On 12/18/2019 7:01 PM, Zafar Ali (zali) wrote:
> Hi Joel,
>
> Thanks for your review.
>
> The processing details were embedded in the Section 4.
>
> We brought them up in the Section 3 and also added additional normativ= e
> language in Section 4.
>
> We have been maintaining the latest version of the draft in the Github= ..
>
> However, we also posted the latest diffs, which addresses your comment= s
> as follows:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0* In the new revision, we have added normative text at the= beginning
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0of 3.1.1 where O-bit is defined.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0* Sections 3.3 and 3.4 adds normative texts for OAM SIDs.<= br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0* 4.1.2 and 4.2.2 further adds additional normative text f= or Ping and
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0traceroute use-cases, respectively.
>
> Latest version is kept in the Github and also uploaded as
> https://www.ietf.org/staging= /draft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6-oam-03.txt.
>
> Thanks
>
> Regards =E2=80=A6 Zafar
>
> *From: *"Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>
> *Date: *Thursday, December 5, 2019 at 10:01 PM
> *To: *"Zafar Ali (zali)" <zali@cisco.com>, 6man WG <ipv6@ietf.org>,
> SPRING WG <spr= ing@ietf.org>
> *Subject: *Re: 6man w.g. last call for <draft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6= -oam>
>
> Sorry, minor typo.=C2=A0=C2=A0SRH, not NSH, in the 4th paragraph.
>
> Joel
>
> On 12/5/2019 9:42 PM, Joel M. Halpern wrote:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0The normative behavior for the bits in various plac= es says that the
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0packet is punted to the control process.=C2=A0 In a= nd of itself, that is
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0fine.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0However, in order for that to be useful, the contro= l process has to
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0know
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0what to do with the packet when it gets there.=C2= =A0 In the classic case of
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0router redirect, this is coupled with definition of= various content to
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0be processed by the router control logic.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0In the case of this document, there is no normative= definition of what
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0the control process is to do with the packet.=C2=A0= And particularly
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0since in
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0many of the cases described the packet that is punt= ed still has an SRH,
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0normal packet processing would simply reach the sam= e "punt" step.=C2=A0 With
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0nowhere to punt it.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0You asssume in the examples that some forms of pars= ing that bypass the
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0NSH will take place.=C2=A0 But processing does not = take place by instinct or
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0magic.=C2=A0 It takes place because we write RFCs t= hat describe what has to
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0happen.=C2=A0 Without some definition of the requir= ed parsing, and I believe
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0(although I am guessing due to the lack of descript= ion) we also need
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0some normative description of what the control proc= ess is required
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0to do.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Note that in most OAM, we define the behavior that = is required, and
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0then
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0indicate where it is permitted to use the control p= lane to achieve it.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0This results in a clear specification, and implemen= tation flexibility.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Yours,
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Joel
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0On 12/5/2019 9:34 PM, Zafar Ali (zali) wrote:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Hi Joel,
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0I did not understand your comment. >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Can you please point to specific text= in the draft for which the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0draft
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0needs to define normative behavior fo= r the "node punt processor
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0look
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0past the SRH and make determinations = based on the content."?
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Thanks
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Regards =E2=80=A6 Zafar
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0*From: *ipv6 <ipv6-bounces@ietf.org
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:ipv6-bounces@ietf.org>> on behal= f of "Joel M. Halpern"
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<jmh@joelhalpern.com <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com>> >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0*Date: *Wednesday, December 4, 2019 a= t 4:37 PM
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0*To: *Ole Troan <otroan@employees.org
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:otroan@employees.org>>, 6man WG &= lt;ipv6@ietf.org
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:ipv6@ietf.org>>,
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0SPRING WG <spring@ietf.org <mailto:spring@ietf.org>>
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0*Subject: *Re: 6man w.g. last call fo= r
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<draft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6-oam&g= t;
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0I re-read this draft, and I am afraid= it is currently
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0under-specified.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0In order for the various examples to = work, there is assumed
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0behavior by
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0the processor to which packets are pu= nted.=C2=A0=C2=A0I could not find
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0where this
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0normative behavior is described expli= citly.=C2=A0=C2=A0It appears that the
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0behavior requires that the node "= ;punt processor" look past the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0SRH and
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0make determinations based on the cont= ent.=C2=A0=C2=A0This needs to be
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0described
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0explicitly.=C2=A0=C2=A0And it needs s= ome discussion of why it is legitimate to
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0look past the SRH when the SRH does n= ot show SL=3D0.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Yours,
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Joel
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0On 12/4/2019 3:53 PM, Ole Troan wrote= :
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Hello,
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0As agreed in the working group session in Singapore, this >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 message starts a = new two week 6MAN Working Group Last Call on
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0advancing:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Title=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0: Operations, Administration, a= nd Maintenance
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0(OAM) in
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Segment Routing N= etworks with IPv6 Data plane (SRv6)
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Author=C2=A0=C2=A0 : Z. Ali, C. Filsfils, S. Matsushima, D.<= br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Voyer, M. Chen
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Filename : draft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6-oam-02
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Pages=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0: 23
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Date=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 : 2019-11-20
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6-oam/ >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 as a Proposed Sta= ndard.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Substantive comme= nts and statements of support for
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0publishing this
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 document should b= e directed to the mailing list.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Editorial suggest= ions can be sent to the author. This last
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0call will
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 end on the 18th o= f December 2019.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 To improve docume= nt quality and ensure that bugs are caught
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0as early
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 as possible, we w= ould require at least
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 two reviewers to = do a complete review of the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0document.=C2=A0=C2=A0Please let
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 the chairs know i= f you are willing to be a reviewer.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 The last call wil= l be forwarded to the spring working
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0group, with
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 discussion direct= ed to the ipv6 list.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Thanks,
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Bob & Ole, 6m= an co-chairs
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0-------------------------------------= -------------------------------
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 IETF IPv6 working= group mailing list
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0ipv6@ietf.org <mailto:ipv6@ietf.org> <mailto:ipv6@ietf.org>
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Administrative Re= quests:
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://www.ietf.org= /mailman/listinfo/ipv6
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0-------------------------------------= -------------------------------
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0-------------------------------------= -------------------------------
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0IETF IPv6 working group mailing list<= br> >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0ipv6@ietf.org <mailto:ipv6@ietf.org> <mailto:ipv6@ietf.org>
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0-------------------------------------= -------------------------------
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0---------------------------------------------------= -----------------
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0IETF IPv6 working group mailing list
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= ipv6@ietf.org <mailto:ipv6@ietf.org>
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Administrative Requests: https://w= ww.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0---------------------------------------------------= -----------------
>

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--000000000000feb015059a10183d-- From nobody Thu Dec 19 07:21:45 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF8F31200F1; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 07:21:43 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=joelhalpern.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id W8fHtpJm0ASa; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 07:21:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from maila2.tigertech.net (maila2.tigertech.net [208.80.4.152]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FCC51200CE; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 07:21:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by maila2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47dwZq046jz6GDCy; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 07:21:39 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=joelhalpern.com; s=2.tigertech; t=1576768899; bh=Yt3mpv4G+Lu8ZqGwm4Rk7AWnf5HLGUaR81+rmRACJVU=; h=Subject:To:Cc:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=cSrhWA0v7czKtTlA37NsWvpyEvXVRHyFZA1EmNAKwlZb2WLS9lj4FqAtQ1C1VJSwy uh4xhT/MsAYZPjYaHN9/VUS6AwUI5LnXU4tQwupQ9bNQ+KFmX7R8LsjxKqVkxb5u4D 5R27gj+86RHpz8Fixb3rz46TzW1O7tigX9ovvFmQ= X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at a2.tigertech.net Received: from [192.168.128.43] (209-255-163-147.ip.mcleodusa.net [209.255.163.147]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by maila2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 47dwZp2MJ3z6GDCw; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 07:21:38 -0800 (PST) To: Rakesh Gandhi Cc: SPRING WG , 6man WG References: <15bc440b-1dbc-0930-137f-f016ca527c2c@joelhalpern.com> <8FAF234D-B5C9-42C7-B483-F57C4ECB349F@cisco.com> <6c3eabf3-410d-ecb6-324f-967544b29a30@joelhalpern.com> <95afdc48-b88a-ab1f-f51f-13193ba5dc1c@joelhalpern.com> <8F662D6A-1720-4D31-AEB8-6A3F7E40E996@cisco.com> <13540a0f-a653-2e52-d253-062b647454d7@joelhalpern.com> From: "Joel M. Halpern" Message-ID: <219d20cc-9ae8-ca1a-1118-0e2eca2eff08@joelhalpern.com> Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2019 10:21:36 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] 6man w.g. last call for - END.OTP X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2019 15:21:44 -0000 Rakesh, I appreciate the pointers. However, I believe some clarification is in order. RFC 5357 does not use END.OTP. It does not mention END.OTP. It can't, since END.OTP did not exist when it was written. Your individual draft on twamp does reference END.OTP. This leads to two possible paths that make sense to me. One way is to define that behavior as part of the SRv6 OAM draft. In that case, the draft would define END.OTP and explain a case where it was useful. So there would be a point in defining it. Alternatively, and more realistically since there is not yet WG agreement on your draft, your SR OAM draft could define END.OTP. In which case Zafar could simply remove it from the base draft. A draft defining a distinction of internal behavior that is not externally visible is not providing value in that regard. I have had this same discussion with folks in other working groups. Defining a code point without giving it a usage is not clean standardization. Yours, Joel On 12/19/2019 9:57 AM, Rakesh Gandhi wrote: > Hi Greg, Joel, > > FYI, END.OTP is used with TWAMP Light (RFC 5357) (and STAMP) in > draft-gandhi-spring-twamp-srpmand RFC 6374 in > draft-gandhi-spring-rfc6374-srpm-udp, for performance delay measurement > use-case. > > thanks, > Rakesh > > > On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 9:49 AM Greg Mirsky > wrote: > > Hi Robert, > could you please clarify your statement "there is huge value > in defining packet timestamping in all oam documents IETF produces > these days"? Is that applicable to Active OAM methods or to other > OAM methodologies, including, Passive and Hybrid? If the > timestamping operation is entirely local to a networking node is > applied to a data flow, in other words, the timestamp value is not > stored in the forwarded downstream data packet, which performance > metric your expect to produce? Or is the expectation to use the > Alternate Marking methodology, as described in RFC 8321, in > combination with the local timestamping? If the product of the > timestamping operation is stored in the data packet, then how is > that different from what is already described in the iOAM draft > you've referenced? I believe that iOAM already has defined a method > to collect timestamps and the method to trigger timestamping > described in the draft we're discussing is duplicating that. Would > you agree? > > Regards, > Greg > > On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 1:56 AM Robert Raszuk > wrote: > > Hi Joel, > > >  However, there is no defined behavior that I know of that > can make use > > of this timestamp. > > Not sure how to read that statement. Are you expecting IETF > draft to tell vendor that computing delta of N values is needed > ? Or is IETF draft needed to tell packet analyzers to evaluate > the quality of the path based on packets timestamps ? Yes > routers may never be involved in such processing, but other > network monitoring components do. > > Sure current networking in this regard is in stone ages, but > there are real efforts and working code which goes beyond that > already in place. Example: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-data-08 > > So there is huge value in defining packet timestamping in all > oam documents IETF produces these days and it would be rather > disservice to remove such important option. > > Thx, > r. > > > On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 1:45 AM Joel M. Halpern > > wrote: > > If I am reading the draft correctly, the difference between > END.OP and > END.OTP is that an internal process is to attach in some > internal > location a timestamp to the packet.  In the abstract, I > understand why > such cna be useful. > > However, there is no defined behavior that I know of that > can make use > of this timestamp.  Until such a behavior is defined, what > is the value > in defining the END.OTP behavior?  (Taken in the extreme, > until there is > such a definition, any implementation which treated END.OTP > as END.OP > would seem to be indistinguishable from proper operation in > terms of > behavior on the wire.) > > Yours, > Joel > > On 12/18/2019 7:01 PM, Zafar Ali (zali) wrote: > > Hi Joel, > > > > Thanks for your review. > > > > The processing details were embedded in the Section 4. > > > > We brought them up in the Section 3 and also added > additional normative > > language in Section 4. > > > > We have been maintaining the latest version of the draft > in the Github... > > > > However, we also posted the latest diffs, which addresses > your comments > > as follows: > > > >   * In the new revision, we have added normative text at > the beginning > >     of 3.1.1 where O-bit is defined. > >   * Sections 3.3 and 3.4 adds normative texts for OAM SIDs. > >   * 4.1.2 and 4.2.2 further adds additional normative > text for Ping and > >     traceroute use-cases, respectively. > > > > Latest version is kept in the Github and also uploaded as > > > https://www.ietf.org/staging/draft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6-oam-03.txt. > > > > Thanks > > > > Regards … Zafar > > > > *From: *"Joel M. Halpern" > > > *Date: *Thursday, December 5, 2019 at 10:01 PM > > *To: *"Zafar Ali (zali)" >, 6man WG >, > > SPRING WG > > > *Subject: *Re: 6man w.g. last call for > > > > > Sorry, minor typo.  SRH, not NSH, in the 4th paragraph. > > > > Joel > > > > On 12/5/2019 9:42 PM, Joel M. Halpern wrote: > > > >     The normative behavior for the bits in various places > says that the > > > >     packet is punted to the control process.  In and of > itself, that is > >     fine. > > > >     However, in order for that to be useful, the control > process has to > >     know > > > >     what to do with the packet when it gets there.  In > the classic case of > > > >     router redirect, this is coupled with definition of > various content to > > > >     be processed by the router control logic. > > > >     In the case of this document, there is no normative > definition of what > > > >     the control process is to do with the packet.  And > particularly > >     since in > > > >     many of the cases described the packet that is punted > still has an SRH, > > > >     normal packet processing would simply reach the same > "punt" step.  With > > > >     nowhere to punt it. > > > >     You asssume in the examples that some forms of > parsing that bypass the > > > >     NSH will take place.  But processing does not take > place by instinct or > > > >     magic.  It takes place because we write RFCs that > describe what has to > > > >     happen.  Without some definition of the required > parsing, and I believe > > > >     (although I am guessing due to the lack of > description) we also need > > > >     some normative description of what the control > process is required > >     to do. > > > >     Note that in most OAM, we define the behavior that is > required, and > >     then > > > >     indicate where it is permitted to use the control > plane to achieve it. > > > >     This results in a clear specification, and > implementation flexibility. > > > >     Yours, > > > >     Joel > > > >     On 12/5/2019 9:34 PM, Zafar Ali (zali) wrote: > > > >         Hi Joel, > > > >         I did not understand your comment. > > > >         Can you please point to specific text in the > draft for which the > >         draft > > > >         needs to define normative behavior for the "node > punt processor > >         look > > > >         past the SRH and make determinations based on the > content."? > > > >         Thanks > > > >         Regards … Zafar > > > >         *From: *ipv6 > >          >> on behalf of "Joel M. Halpern" > > > >          >> > > > >         *Date: *Wednesday, December 4, 2019 at 4:37 PM > > > >         *To: *Ole Troan > >          >>, 6man WG > >         >>, > > > >         SPRING WG >> > > > >         *Subject: *Re: 6man w.g. last call for > >          > > > >         I re-read this draft, and I am afraid it is currently > >         under-specified. > > > >         In order for the various examples to work, there > is assumed > >         behavior by > > > >         the processor to which packets are punted.  I > could not find > >         where this > > > >         normative behavior is described explicitly.  It > appears that the > > > >         behavior requires that the node "punt processor" > look past the > >         SRH and > > > >         make determinations based on the content.  This > needs to be > >         described > > > >         explicitly.  And it needs some discussion of why > it is legitimate to > > > >         look past the SRH when the SRH does not show SL=0. > > > >         Yours, > > > >         Joel > > > >         On 12/4/2019 3:53 PM, Ole Troan wrote: > > > >              Hello, > > > >                   As agreed in the working group session > in Singapore, this > > > >              message starts a new two week 6MAN Working > Group Last Call on > > > >         advancing: > > > >                   Title    : Operations, Administration, > and Maintenance > >         (OAM) in > > > >              Segment Routing Networks with IPv6 Data > plane (SRv6) > > > >                   Author   : Z. Ali, C. Filsfils, S. > Matsushima, D. > >         Voyer, M. Chen > > > >                   Filename : > draft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6-oam-02 > > > >                   Pages    : 23 > > > >                   Date     : 2019-11-20 > > > > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6-oam/ > > > >              as a Proposed Standard. > > > >              Substantive comments and statements of > support for > >         publishing this > > > >              document should be directed to the mailing list. > > > >              Editorial suggestions can be sent to the > author. This last > >         call will > > > >              end on the 18th of December 2019. > > > >              To improve document quality and ensure that > bugs are caught > >         as early > > > >              as possible, we would require at least > > > >              two reviewers to do a complete review of the > >         document.  Please let > > > >              the chairs know if you are willing to be a > reviewer. > > > >              The last call will be forwarded to the > spring working > >         group, with > > > >              discussion directed to the ipv6 list. > > > >              Thanks, > > > >              Bob & Ole, 6man co-chairs > > > > > > >  -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >              IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > > > > ipv6@ietf.org > > > > > > > >              Administrative Requests: > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > > > > > > >  -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > >  -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >         IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > > > > ipv6@ietf.org > > > > > > > >         Administrative Requests: > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > > > > >  -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > >  -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >     IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > > > > ipv6@ietf.org > > > > > >     Administrative Requests: > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > > > > >  -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > From nobody Thu Dec 19 07:34:35 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A51A11200F1 for ; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 07:34:33 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.701 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.701 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=joelhalpern.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vijFUW9-wJ5E for ; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 07:34:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from maila2.tigertech.net (maila2.tigertech.net [208.80.4.152]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B96A41200A4 for ; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 07:34:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by maila2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47dwsg4pQ8z6GDFj for ; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 07:34:31 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=joelhalpern.com; s=2.tigertech; t=1576769671; bh=ZOo0cZmBAINHjpEkN+vFlFIsz9ugwl3D0VYLnlk30/g=; h=To:From:Subject:Date:From; b=X34/fZ1ADZ8g7kP7fwhY8fe+n09uNslqY54FkrAN0Cqub2lkIRLIgXbIh4qcm3fzB buLLSMBNO63vLUvmhmiLb824yvHjWegdt9YLFTSY0nl1pzJgIMIVsmFAnaz5DKDF2V lFkCOdfNMeSHgIA+uyyt5hQgCiCt51W2reR4JKcs= X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at a2.tigertech.net Received: from [192.168.128.43] (209-255-163-147.ip.mcleodusa.net [209.255.163.147]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by maila2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 47dwsg1dpmz6GD0x for ; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 07:34:31 -0800 (PST) To: "spring@ietf.org" From: "Joel M. Halpern" Message-ID: Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2019 10:34:30 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: [spring] SRv6 Network Programming Endpoint Behavior Registry X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2019 15:34:34 -0000 In talking with folks, and looking at the draft, I realized that there were two different interpretations of the Endpoint Behavior Registry. I can not tell which is intended. I had assumed, possibly incorrectly, that the list of code points was a list of code points to use in routing and control protocols (so all the control mechanisms sould have inter-changeable semantics for SRv6 SIDs. I thus assumed that one would see in routing an advertisement that in some form said "SID prefix X is serviced by node Y and provides functionality of Endpoint Behavior Z, with the remaining bits as defined in the registry." Other folks have read this text as defining the bits that must appear in the explicit SID in the SID list, between the loactor portion and the arguments. This would provide some small savings in the routing and control infrastructure (but not a lot since there still need to be advertisements about what Endpoint Behaviors each node actually supports.) This would seem to constrain implementations to use exactly these code point. I am reminded of diffserv, where we looked at doing that and concluded that operator needs were such that it did not make sense to mandate the on-the-wire code point. Can the authors please clarify which meaning they intend? Possibly by pointing me at the wording in the document that makes it clear? 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boundary="_000_BN7PR05MB56990E24B6226A6B020F3E2CAE520BN7PR05MB5699namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: e2bba84c-5e2d-4912-376f-08d784a06df5 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 19 Dec 2019 16:28:06.8666 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: 9suh46F0aVDcCHhsokeoH55xXC5p6fQ3cbdu+wXS9bgAFtw6VC69rzDc/cmgaU1cj+Xl3PGWkwQmS+z8QmSpow== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN7PR05MB4562 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.95,18.0.572 definitions=2019-12-19_04:2019-12-17,2019-12-19 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_spam_notspam policy=outbound_spam score=0 spamscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 bulkscore=0 adultscore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 clxscore=1015 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-1910280000 definitions=main-1912190135 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] End.DT/End.DX SIDs (was Re: USD/USP question in draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-06.txt) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2019 16:28:28 -0000 --_000_BN7PR05MB56990E24B6226A6B020F3E2CAE520BN7PR05MB5699namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Pablo, In L3VPN, all of these are combined into a single 20-bit MPLS label. Why ca= n SRv6 not do likewise? Ron Juniper Business Use Only From: spring On Behalf Of Pablo Camarillo (pcamar= il) Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2019 6:47 AM To: Wang, Weibin (NSB - CN/Shanghai) ; Gyan Mi= shra Cc: spring@ietf.org; Voyer, Daniel Subject: [spring] End.DT/End.DX SIDs (was Re: USD/USP question in draft-iet= f-spring-srv6-network-programming-06.txt) Gyan, The End.DX4/End.DX6 can be seen as an equivalent to the MPLS per-CE VPN lab= el. The End.DT4/End.DT6 can be seen as an equivalent to the MPLS per-VRF VPN la= bel. I believe that they cannot be combined. Cheers, Pablo. From: Gyan Mishra > Date: Sunday, 15 December 2019 at 08:29 To: "Wang, Weibin (NSB - CN/Shanghai)" > Cc: "Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)" >, "Voyer, Daniel" >,= "spring@ietf.org" > Subject: Re: [spring] USD/USP question in draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-pr= ogramming-06.txt Hi Wang & Pablo & Spring Authors, Had another question? These 4 sections. Trying to understand the difference between end.dx4 end.= dx6 and end.dt4 and end.dt6. They both seem very similar. One says xconne= ct but other has v4 v6 lookup but for both you have to signal L3 vpn servi= ces sid. Not sure why both SIDs dx dt Sid function why they cannot be comb= ined. I noticed this difference below that the dx4 dt4 account for the global tab= le scenario where the PE-CE is native IPv4 or IPv6. In the MPLS world that= use case is very different in that there is not any L3 vpn label and do th= e label stack only had a single topmost label. Also in the MPLS scenario w= ith IPv6 global table PE-CE with a IPv4 core you require BGP -LU labeled un= icast "send label" to label all the IPv6 prefixed tunneled over IPv4. Sin= ce that scenario is very different with global table does it make sense to = have a separate End.x variant for global table for both IPv4 and IPv6. Note that an End.DT6 may be defined for the main IPv6 table in which case and End.DT6 supports the equivalent of an IPv6inIPv6 decapsulation (without VPN/tenant implication). 4.4. End.DX6: Decapsu= lation and IPv6 cross-connect . . . . . . 12 4.5. End.DX4: Decapsu= lation and IPv4 cross-connect . . . . . . 13 4.6. End.DT6: Decapsu= lation and specific IPv6 table lookup . . 14 4.7. End.DT4: Decapsu= lation and specific IPv4 table lookup . . 15 Also I was trying to understand end.dt46. So if the PE-CE edge is dual stacked anhas both v4 and v6 you have a VRF te= nant v4 and v6 separate peers signaled via L3 vpn services TLV. So why do = you need this end.dt46 sid 4.8. End.DT46: Decapsulati= on and specific IP table lookup . . 16 Kind Regards, Gyan On Sun, Dec 15, 2019 at 2:06 AM Gyan Mishra > wrote: Hi Wang I have a question regarding the PSP, USP and USD sections I pasted below. I just sent an email to Spring WG related to PSP and technically why that i= s necessary as that is a legacy concept that has parity to MPLS but is not = used today due to QOS issues. Please see that email related to that topic. In the PSP section can If we have to keep PSP can we add verbiage that stat= es that PSP removal of the SRH header occurs on the Penultimate egress P no= de. In the USP section can we also add that all remaining SRH present in the pa= cket are popped on the egress PE ultimate node. In looking at these 3 SID functions the PSP and USP pop the EH and the USP = removes the 6in6 encapsulation so that the other end.x dt4 dt6 etc can pop = the services L3vpn headers. Why can't the USD 6in6 encapsulation removal be done on with the USP SID? Why does the USP and USD SID have to be separate? 4.16.1. PSP: Penultimat= e Segment Pop of the SRH The SRH processing of the End, End.X and End.T behaviors are modified: after the instruction "S14. Update IPv6 DA with Segment List[Segments Left]" is executed, the following instructions must be executed as well: S14.1. If (updated SL =3D=3D 0) { S14.2. Pop the SRH S14.3. } 4.16.2. USP: Ultimate S= egment Pop of the SRH The SRH processing of the End, End.X and End.T behaviors are modified: the instructions S02-S04 are substituted by the following ones: S02. If (Segments Left =3D=3D 0) { S03. Pop the SRH S04. } 4.16.3. USD: Ultimate S= egment Decapsulation The SRH processing of the End, End.X and End.T behaviors are modified: the instructions S02-S04 are substituted by the following ones: S02. If (Segments Left =3D=3D 0) { S03. Skip the SRH processing and proceed to the next header S04. } Further on, the Upper-layer header processing of the End, End.X and End.T behaviors are modified as follows: Kind regards, Gyan On Sat, Dec 14, 2019 at 9:08 PM Wang, Weibin (NSB - CN/Shanghai) > wrote: Hi Pablo: After the 2 context assumption in previous version of this draft, "we assu= me that there is no other extension header than the SRH." and "We assume that the SRH may be present multiple times inside each packet", are remo= ved in this last draft, I feel a bit confusion on USD SID, as well as combi= nation of USD & USP. First, within the content of this last draft, the word "Further on" marked = red in the following pseudocode in section "4.16.3" is hard to understand i= f the packet being processed has other EH embed between SRH and Upper-layer= header, such as AH or other EH, then the processing control of this packet= will be passed to normal IPv6 module from current SRH processing module in= SR-Node, so my question is : Can its control after completing AH processin= g (for example) be back to SRH module (or call it pseudocode module) to pr= oceed the next header like "upper-lay header type =3D=3D41 or 4". Or, if not, Did you created a new EH processing protocol stack instance in = parallel to normal IPv6 module within the scope of SRH processing in SR-nod= e. 4.16.3. USD: Ultimate Segment Decapsulation S02. If (Segments Left =3D=3D 0) { S03. Skip the SRH processing and proceed to the next header S04. } Further on, the Upper-layer header processing of the End, End.X and End.T behaviors are modified as follows: End: S01. If (Upper-layer Header type =3D=3D 41 || 4) { S02. Remove the outer IPv6 Header with all its extension headers S03. Submit the packet to the egress IP FIB lookup and transmission to the new destination S04. } Else { S05. Send an ICMP Parameter Problem message to the Source Address Code 4 (SR Upper-layer Header Error), Pointer set to the offset of the upper-layer header. Interrupt packet processing and discard the packet. S06. } >From my understanding, the all processing action about specific SID must be= completed successively. That is to say, upon USD, the upper-layer header (= type 41 or 4) must be followed the SRH header being processed currently, or= second SRH following the same rule (of course, the draft not considering 2= or more successive SRHs). Second, the mixed SIDs function with combination of USD and USP (even PSP&U= SD&USP), I think, it is easy to understand when the two assumption above ex= ist, but now I think it isn't clear if you only provide the following sente= nce in this draft, i.e. "if ... else..." statement: "An implementation that supports the USD flavor in conjunction with the USP flavor MAY optimize the packet processing by first looking whether the conditions for the USD flavor are met, in which case it can proceed with USD processing else do USP processing." This confusion is also described in my another mail. Of course, if the firs= t question is addressed then this confusion does not exist. By the way, is it really no different in text description before and after = the two context assumption above removed? Cheers ! WANG Weibin _______________________________________________ spring mailing list spring@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring -- Gyan S. Mishra IT Network Engineering & Technology Verizon Communications Inc. (VZ) 13101 Columbia Pike FDC1 3rd Floor Silver Spring, MD 20904 United States Phone: 301 502-1347 Email: gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies-consultant -- Gyan S. Mishra IT Network Engineering & Technology Verizon Communications Inc. (VZ) 13101 Columbia Pike FDC1 3rd Floor Silver Spring, MD 20904 United States Phone: 301 502-1347 Email: gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies-consultant --_000_BN7PR05MB56990E24B6226A6B020F3E2CAE520BN7PR05MB5699namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Pablo,

 

In L3VPN, all of these are combined into a single 20= -bit MPLS label. Why can SRv6 not do likewise?

 

        &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;           Ron

 

 

Juniper Business Use Only

From: spring <spring-bounces@ietf.org> = On Behalf Of Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)
Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2019 6:47 AM
To: Wang, Weibin (NSB - CN/Shanghai) <weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com= >; Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
Cc: spring@ietf.org; Voyer, Daniel <daniel.voyer@bell.ca>
Subject: [spring] End.DT/End.DX SIDs (was Re: USD/USP question in dr= aft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-06.txt)

 

Gyan,

 

The End.DX4/End.DX6 can be seen= as an equivalent to the MPLS per-CE VPN label.

The End.DT4/End.DT6 can be seen= as an equivalent to the MPLS per-VRF VPN label.

 

I believe that they cannot be c= ombined.

 

Cheers,

Pablo.

 

From: Gyan Mi= shra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com= >
Date: Sunday, 15 December 2019 at 08:29
To: "Wang, Weibin (NSB - CN/Shanghai)" <weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com>
Cc: "Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)" <pcamaril@cisco.com>, "Voyer, Daniel" <= daniel.voyer@bell.ca>, "= ;spring@ietf.org" <spring@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [spring] USD/USP question in draft-ietf-spring-srv6-net= work-programming-06.txt

&n= bsp;

&n= bsp;

Hi Wang= & Pablo & Spring Authors,

&n= bsp;

Had ano= ther question?

&n= bsp;

These 4= sections.  Trying to understand the difference between end.dx4 end.dx= 6 and end.dt4 and end.dt6.  They both seem very similar.  One say= s xconnect but other has v4 v6 lookup but for both you have to signal  L3 vpn services sid.  Not sure why both SIDs dx = dt Sid function why they cannot be combined.

&n= bsp;

I notic= ed this difference below that the dx4 dt4 account for the global table scen= ario where the PE-CE is native IPv4 or IPv6.  In the MPLS world that u= se case is very different in that there is not any L3 vpn label and do the label stack only had a single topmost labe= l.  Also in the MPLS scenario with IPv6 global table PE-CE with a IPv4= core you require BGP -LU labeled unicast “send label” to label= all the IPv6 prefixed tunneled over IPv4.   Since that scenario is very different with global table does it make sense to ha= ve a separate End.x variant for global table for both IPv4 and IPv6.

&n= bsp;

   Note that an End.DT6 may be defined for =
the main IPv6 table in which
   case and End.DT6 supports the equivalent of an IPv6inIPv6
   decapsulation (without VPN/tenant implication).
 
     4.4.  End.DX6: Decapsulation and IPv6 cross-connect . . . . . . =
; 12
     4.5.  End.DX4=
: Decapsulation and IPv4 cross-connect . . . . . .  13
     4.6.  End.DT6=
: Decapsulation and specific IPv6 table lookup . .  14
     4.7.  End.DT4=
: Decapsulation and specific IPv4 table lookup . .  15
 
Also I was trying to understand end.dt46.<=
/span>
 
So if the PE-CE edge is dual stacked anhas both v4 an=
d v6 you have a VRF tenant v4 and v6 separate peers signaled via L3 vpn ser=
vices TLV.  So why do you need this end.dt46 sid

 


4.8.  End.DT46: Deca=
psulation and specific IP table lookup  . .  16


     


 


Kind Regards,


 


Gyan


 

On Sun,= Dec 15, 2019 at 2:06 AM Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Wang

 

I have a question regarding the PSP, USP and USD section= s I pasted below.

 

I just sent an email to Spring WG related to PSP and tec= hnically why that is necessary as that is a legacy concept that has parity = to MPLS but is not used today due to QOS issues.  Please see that email related to that topic.

 

 

In the PSP section can If we have to keep PSP can we add= verbiage that states that PSP removal of the SRH header occurs on the Penu= ltimate egress P node.

 

In the USP section can we also add that all remaining SR= H present in the packet are popped on the egress PE ultimate node.

 

In looking at these 3 SID functions the PSP and USP pop = the EH and the USP removes the 6in6 encapsulation so that the other end.x d= t4 dt6 etc can pop the services L3vpn headers.

 

Why can’t the USD 6in6 encapsulation removal be do= ne on with the USP SID?

 

Why does the USP and USD SID have to be separate?

 

4.16.= 1.  PSP: Penultimate Segment Pop of the SRH

<=
o:p> 
<=
o:p> 
&=
nbsp;  The SRH processing of the End, End.X and End.T behaviors are
&=
nbsp;  modified: after the instruction "S14.  Update IPv6 DA=
 with Segment
&=
nbsp;  List[Segments Left]" is executed, the following instructio=
ns must be
&=
nbsp;  executed as well:
<=
o:p> 
&=
nbsp;  S14.1.   If (updated SL =3D=3D 0) {=

&=
nbsp;  S14.2.      Pop the SRH
&=
nbsp;  S14.3.   }
<=
o:p> 

4.16.2.  USP: Ultimate Segment Pop of the SRH

<=
o:p> 
<=
o:p> 
&=
nbsp;  The SRH processing of the End, End.X and End.T behaviors are
&=
nbsp;  modified: the instructions S02-S04 are substituted by the follo=
wing
&=
nbsp;  ones:
<=
o:p> 
&=
nbsp;  S02.   If (Segments Left =3D=3D 0) {
&=
nbsp;  S03.       Pop the SRH=

&=
nbsp;  S04.   }
<=
o:p> 

4.16.3.  USD: Ultimate Segment Decapsulation

<=
o:p> 
<=
o:p> 
&=
nbsp;  The SRH processing of the End, End.X and End.T behaviors are
&=
nbsp;  modified: the instructions S02-S04 are substituted by the follo=
wing
&=
nbsp;  ones:
<=
o:p> 
&=
nbsp;  S02.   If (Segments Left =3D=3D 0) {
&=
nbsp;  S03.      Skip the SRH processing and =
proceed to the next header
&=
nbsp;  S04.   }
<=
o:p> 
<=
o:p> 
&=
nbsp;  Further on, the Upper-layer header processing of the End, End.X=
 and
&=
nbsp;  End.T behaviors are modified as follows:

 


 


Kind regards,


 


Gyan=

&n= bsp;

On Sat,= Dec 14, 2019 at 9:08 PM Wang, Weibin (NSB - CN/Shanghai) <weibin.wang@nokia-sbell= .com> wrote:

Hi Pablo:

 

After the 2 context assumption in previous version of this draft,  = 220;we assume that there is no other extensi= on header than the SRH.”  and  “We assume

   that the SRH may be present mul= tiple times inside each packet”, are removed in this last draf= t, I feel a bit confusion on USD SID, as well as combination of USD & USP.

 

First, within the content of this last draft, the word “Further on= 221; marked red in the following pseudocode in section “4.16.3”= is hard to understand if the packet being processed has other EH embed bet= ween SRH and Upper-layer header, such as AH or other EH, then the processing control of this packet will be passed to normal IPv6 m= odule from current SRH processing module in SR-Node, so my question is : Ca= n its control after completing AH processing (for example)  be back to= SRH module (or call it pseudocode module) to proceed the next header like “upper-lay header type =3D=3D41 or 4= ”.

Or, if not, Did you created a new EH processing protocol stack instance in = parallel to normal IPv6 module within the scope of SRH processing in SR-nod= e.

 

4.16.3.  USD: Ultimate Segment Decapsul= ation

 

S02.   If (Segments Left =3D=3D 0)= {

   S03.    &nb= sp; Skip the SRH processing and proceed to the next header

   S04.   }<= /o:p>

 

Further on, the Upper-layer header processing of = the End, End.X and

   End.T behaviors are modified as= follows:

 

   End:

   S01. If (Upper-layer Header typ= e =3D=3D 41 || 4) {

   S02.    Remove t= he outer IPv6 Header with all its extension headers

   S03.    Submit t= he packet to the egress IP FIB lookup and

       &n= bsp;      transmission to the new destination

   S04. } Else {=

   S05.    Send an = ICMP Parameter Problem message to the Source Address

       &n= bsp;      Code 4 (SR Upper-layer Header Error),

       &n= bsp;      Pointer set to the offset of the upper-l= ayer header.

       &n= bsp;      Interrupt packet processing and discard = the packet.

 

   S06. }

 

>From my understanding, the all processing action about specific SID must be= completed successively. That is to say, upon USD, the upper-layer header (= type 41 or 4) must be followed the SRH header being processed currently, or= second SRH following the same rule (of course, the draft not considering 2 or more successive SRHs).

 

Second, the mixed SIDs function with combination of USD and USP (even PSP&a= mp;USD&USP), I think, it is easy to understand when the two assumption = above exist, but now I think it isn’t clear if you only provide the f= ollowing sentence in this draft, i.e.  “if … else…&#= 8221; statement:

“An implementation that supports the U= SD flavor in conjunction with

   the USP flavor MAY optimize the= packet processing by first looking

   whether the conditions for the = USD flavor are met, in which case it

   can proceed with USD processing= else do USP processing.”

This confusion is also described in my another mail. Of course, if the firs= t question is addressed then this confusion does not exist.

 

By the way, is it really no different in text description before and after = the two context assumption above removed?

 

 

Cheers !

 

WANG Weibin

_______= ________________________________________
spring mailing list
spring@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spr= ing

--

Gyan S. Mishra

IT Network Engineering & Tech= nology 

Verizon Communications Inc. = (VZ)

13101 Columbia Pike FDC1 3rd Floo= r

Silver Spring, MD 20904

United States

Phone: 301 502-1347

Email: gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com

www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies-consultant

&n= bsp;

--

Gyan S. Mishra

IT Network Engineering & Tech= nology 

Verizon Communications Inc. = (VZ)

13101 Columbia Pike FDC1 3rd Floo= r

Silver Spring, MD 20904

United States

Phone: 301 502-1347

Email: gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com

www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies-consultant

&n= bsp;

--_000_BN7PR05MB56990E24B6226A6B020F3E2CAE520BN7PR05MB5699namp_-- From nobody Thu Dec 19 08:54:02 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D91E21200F1 for ; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 08:53:59 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.597 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.597 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id y2zpFvW_OpUy for ; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 08:53:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from relais-inet.orange.com (relais-inet.orange.com [80.12.70.34]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8CA241200A4 for ; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 08:53:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from opfednr07.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.71]) by opfednr23.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 47dydH04CSz5w1Y for ; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 17:53:55 +0100 (CET) Received: from Exchangemail-eme6.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.13.38]) by opfednr07.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 47dydG4tS5zFpWy for ; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 17:53:54 +0100 (CET) Received: from OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::b846:2467:1591:5d9d]) by OPEXCAUBM5C.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::393d:418c:3f1d:991d%21]) with mapi id 14.03.0468.000; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 17:53:54 +0100 From: To: SPRING WG Thread-Topic: draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming - 2 week Early Allocation Call Thread-Index: AdW2iKoK1d+PmmgsTNy50jATkx4LXQ== Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2019 16:53:54 +0000 Message-ID: <18437_1576774434_5DFBAB22_18437_317_31_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D392D1@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.247] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D392D1OPEXCAUBM43corp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: [spring] draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming - 2 week Early Allocation Call X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2019 16:54:00 -0000 --_000_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D392D1OPEXCAUBM43corp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi SPRING WG, This begins a 2 week Early Allocation call for a "Ethernet" value from the = "Protocol Numbers" registry. https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-07#s= ection-9.1 https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-07#s= ection-5.3 https://www.iana.org/assignments/protocol-numbers/protocol-numbers.xhtml In parallel of the Working Group Last Call which is currently running, the = authors are requesting for early code point allocation from IANA as impleme= ntations are under way. The criteria for early allocation are: a. The code points must be from a space designated as "RFC Required", "IETF Review", or "Standards Action". Additionally, requests for early assignment of code points from a "Specification Required" registry are allowed if the specification will be published as an RFC. b. The format, semantics, processing, and other rules related to handling the protocol entities defined by the code points (henceforth called "specifications") must be adequately described in an Internet-Draft. c. The specifications of these code points must be stable; i.e., if there is a change, implementations based on the earlier and later specifications must be seamlessly interoperable. d. The Working Group chairs and Area Directors (ADs) judge that there is sufficient interest in the community for early (pre-RFC) implementation and deployment, or that failure to make an early allocation might lead to contention for the code point in the field. https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7120#section-2 I believe the above conditions are met. (minus the AD judgement which is fu= rther down in the process) As a reminder, this topic has mainly been discussed following IETF 105 (Mon= tr=E9al) both during the meeting and on the mailing list. During IETF 106 it has been discussed in the IntArea WG. https://datatracke= r.ietf.org/meeting/106/proceedings#intarea Note that this code point is not to be specific to SRv6. Depending on AD gu= idance, this specific code point even be moved from draft-ietf-spring-srv6-= network-programming into a specific 1 page draft. If you support early adoption, please include "support" along with any com= ments about the draft's technical solution. If you do not support early allocation, please include "no support" in your= email and indicate why. Thank you, --Bruno ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el= ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been = modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. --_000_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D392D1OPEXCAUBM43corp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 
Hi SPRING WG,
 
This begins a 2=
 week Early Allocation call for a “Ethernet” value from the &qu=
ot;Protocol Numbers" registry.
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programm=
ing-07#section-9.1
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programm=
ing-07#section-5.3
https=
://www.iana.org/assignments/protocol-numbers/protocol-numbers.xhtml
 
In parallel of =
the Working Group Last Call which is currently running, the authors are req=
uesting for early code point allocation from IANA as implementations are un=
der way.
 
The criteria fo=
r early allocation are:
   a.&n=
bsp; The code points must be from a space designated as "RFC
       Required"=
;, "IETF Review", or "Standards Action".  Additionally,
       requests for =
early assignment of code points from a
       "Specifi=
cation Required" registry are allowed if the
       specification=
 will be published as an RFC.
 
   b.&n=
bsp; The format, semantics, processing, and other rules related to
       handling the =
protocol entities defined by the code points
       (henceforth c=
alled "specifications") must be adequately described
       in an Interne=
t-Draft.
 
   c.&n=
bsp; The specifications of these code points must be stable; i.e., i=
f
       there is a ch=
ange, implementations based on the earlier and later
       specification=
s must be seamlessly interoperable.
 
   d.&n=
bsp; The Working Group chairs and Area Directors (ADs) judge that
       there is suff=
icient interest in the community for early (pre-RFC)
       implementatio=
n and deployment, or that failure to make an early
       allocation mi=
ght lead to contention for the code point in the
       field.
https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7=
120#section-2
 
I believe the a=
bove conditions are met. (minus the AD judgement which is further down in t=
he process)
 
As a reminder, =
this topic has mainly been discussed following IETF 105 (Montr=E9al) both d=
uring the meeting and on the mailing list.
During IETF 106=
 it has been discussed in the IntArea WG. https=
://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/106/proceedings#intarea
 
Note that this =
code point is not to be specific to SRv6. Depending on AD guidance, this sp=
ecific code point even be moved from draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-program=
ming into a specific 1 page draft.
 
If you support =
early adoption,  please include “support” along with any c=
omments about the draft’s technical solution.
 
If you do not s=
upport early allocation, please include “no support” in your em=
ail and indicate why.
 
Thank you,=

--Bruno

 

______________________________________________________________________=
___________________________________________________

Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden=
tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu=
 ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el=
ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou =
falsifie. Merci.

This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf=
ormation that may be protected by law;
they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele=
te this message and its attachments.
As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been =
modified, changed or falsified.
Thank you.
--_000_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D392D1OPEXCAUBM43corp_-- From nobody Thu Dec 19 09:11:50 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 938F4120271; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 09:11:48 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DpM--AxcAg8R; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 09:11:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from relais-inet.orange.com (relais-inet.orange.com [80.12.66.39]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 83B57120170; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 09:11:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from opfedar01.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.2]) by opfedar20.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 47dz1r66wxz8tTF; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 18:11:44 +0100 (CET) Received: from Exchangemail-eme6.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.13.92]) by opfedar01.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 47dz1r5Ct0zBrLG; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 18:11:44 +0100 (CET) Received: from OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::b846:2467:1591:5d9d]) by OPEXCAUBM34.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::7873:1668:636f:52c%21]) with mapi id 14.03.0468.000; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 18:11:44 +0100 From: To: 'SPRING WG List' CC: draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming Thread-Topic: IPR poll for draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming Thread-Index: AdWri8PrYNknLVMMSPK3l23i6uOM3wLAxfDQ Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2019 17:11:44 +0000 Message-ID: <12635_1576775504_5DFBAF50_12635_107_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D39377@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <26660_1575564615_5DE93547_26660_39_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D1A2A9@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: <26660_1575564615_5DE93547_26660_39_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D1A2A9@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.247] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] IPR poll for draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2019 17:11:48 -0000 As a contributor, I am not aware of non-disclosed IPR related to this docu= ment. --Bruno -----Original Message----- From: spring [mailto:spring-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of bruno.decraene@o= range.com Sent: Thursday, December 5, 2019 5:50 PM To: 'SPRING WG List'; draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming Subject: [spring] IPR poll for draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming Hi SPRING WG, In parallel to the WGLC for draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming, we = would like to poll for IPR. If you are aware of IPR that applies to draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-prog= ramming [1] please respond to this email. If you are aware of IPR, please i= ndicate whether it has been disclosed in accordance with IETF IPR rules (RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378= provide more details). If you are an *author or contributor* please respond to this email regardle= ss of whether or not you're aware of any IPR.=20 This document will not advance until IPR confirmations have been received f= rom all authors and contributors. Thank you, Bruno [1] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-= 05 ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el= ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been = modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. _______________________________________________ spring mailing list spring@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el= ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. 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19 Dec 2019 17:27:47 +0000 From: "Zafar Ali (zali)" To: Greg Mirsky , Robert Raszuk CC: SPRING WG , 6man WG , "Zafar Ali (zali)" Thread-Topic: [spring] 6man w.g. last call for - END.OTP Thread-Index: AQHVtgWkvTytpCGUsketLxaHNct8MafBOQ0AgABR6ICAAATTgIAAA70A///P2YA= Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2019 17:27:47 +0000 Message-ID: <8B69112B-5093-4109-8423-9B54A2744A19@cisco.com> References: <15bc440b-1dbc-0930-137f-f016ca527c2c@joelhalpern.com> <8FAF234D-B5C9-42C7-B483-F57C4ECB349F@cisco.com> <6c3eabf3-410d-ecb6-324f-967544b29a30@joelhalpern.com> <95afdc48-b88a-ab1f-f51f-13193ba5dc1c@joelhalpern.com> <8F662D6A-1720-4D31-AEB8-6A3F7E40E996@cisco.com> <13540a0f-a653-2e52-d253-062b647454d7@joelhalpern.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/10.1f.0.191110 authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=zali@cisco.com; x-originating-ip: [2001:420:c0cc:1006::31] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email 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"Zafar Ali (zali)" Cc: SPRING WG , 6man WG References: <15bc440b-1dbc-0930-137f-f016ca527c2c@joelhalpern.com> <8FAF234D-B5C9-42C7-B483-F57C4ECB349F@cisco.com> <6c3eabf3-410d-ecb6-324f-967544b29a30@joelhalpern.com> <95afdc48-b88a-ab1f-f51f-13193ba5dc1c@joelhalpern.com> <8F662D6A-1720-4D31-AEB8-6A3F7E40E996@cisco.com> <13540a0f-a653-2e52-d253-062b647454d7@joelhalpern.com> <8B69112B-5093-4109-8423-9B54A2744A19@cisco.com> From: "Joel M. Halpern" Message-ID: <741b29f5-385b-f24c-6965-53368b031730@joelhalpern.com> Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2019 12:35:23 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <8B69112B-5093-4109-8423-9B54A2744A19@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] 6man w.g. last call for - END.OTP X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2019 17:35:31 -0000 I am probably missing something. As far as I can tell, the draft does not give any clue as to what the END.OTP behavior is to be used for. Without such description, how is the reader to know that it is "NOT ... to be used for in-situ OAM." Yours, Joel On 12/19/2019 12:27 PM, Zafar Ali (zali) wrote: > Hi Greg, > > The END.OTP SID is NOT defined or to be used for in-situ OAM. > > Thanks > > Regards … Zafar > > *From: *ipv6 on behalf of Greg Mirsky > > *Date: *Thursday, December 19, 2019 at 10:21 AM > *To: *Robert Raszuk > *Cc: *SPRING WG , 6man WG > *Subject: *Re: [spring] 6man w.g. last call for > - END.OTP > > Hi Robert, > > thank you for your quick response. Could you please help me understand > how this proposed mechanism complements what is defined in the > combination of iOAM data > and iOAM in > IPv6 > drafts? As I understand it, the data draft already includes the > mechanism to trigger the timestamp collection on a node by setting the > appropriate flags in the IOAM-Trace-Type field. And the IOAM-Trace-Type > field is part of iOAM in IPv6 encapsulation. If that is the case, I > don't see the gap that needs to be closed but the duplication of > functionality by the proposed END..OTP function. > > Regards, > > Greg > > On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 7:06 AM Robert Raszuk > wrote: > > Hi Greg, > > > I believe that iOAM already has defined a method to collect > timestamps > > > and the method to trigger timestamping described in the draft we're > > > discussing is duplicating that. Would you agree? > > Nope not at all. > > The timestamping is needed in the SR paths in the outer header. iOAM > says: > >    Scope: This document defines the data fields and associated data > >    types for in-situ OAM.  The in-situ OAM data field can be > transported > >    by a variety of transport protocols, including NSH, Segment Routing, > >    Geneve, IPv6, or IPv4. * Specification details for these different* > > *   transport protocols are outside the scope of this document.* > > I think current SR OAM draft fills that gap. > > Thx > > R. > > On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 3:49 PM Greg Mirsky > wrote: > > Hi Robert, > > could you please clarify your statement "there is huge value > in defining packet timestamping in all oam documents IETF > produces these days"? Is that applicable to Active OAM methods > or to other OAM methodologies, including, Passive and Hybrid? If > the timestamping operation is entirely local to a networking > node is applied to a data flow, in other words, the timestamp > value is not stored in the forwarded downstream data packet, > which performance metric your expect to produce? Or is the > expectation to use the Alternate Marking methodology, as > described in RFC 8321, in combination with the local > timestamping? If the product of the timestamping operation is > stored in the data packet, then how is that different from what > is already described in the iOAM draft you've referenced? I > believe that iOAM already has defined a method to collect > timestamps and the method to trigger timestamping described in > the draft we're discussing is duplicating that. Would you agree? > > Regards, > > Greg > > On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 1:56 AM Robert Raszuk > wrote: > > Hi Joel, > > >  However, there is no defined behavior that I know of > that can make use > > > of this timestamp. > > Not sure how to read that statement. Are you expecting IETF > draft to tell vendor that computing delta of N values is > needed ? Or is IETF draft needed to tell packet analyzers to > evaluate the quality of the path based on packets timestamps > ? Yes routers may never be involved in such processing, but > other network monitoring components do. > > Sure current networking in this regard is in stone ages, but > there are real efforts and working code which goes beyond > that already in place. Example: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-data-08 > > So there is huge value in defining packet timestamping in > all oam documents IETF produces these days and it would be > rather disservice to remove such important option. > > Thx, > > r. > > On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 1:45 AM Joel M. Halpern > > wrote: > > If I am reading the draft correctly, the difference > between END.OP and > END.OTP is that an internal process is to attach in some > internal > location a timestamp to the packet.  In the abstract, I > understand why > such cna be useful. > > However, there is no defined behavior that I know of > that can make use > of this timestamp.  Until such a behavior is defined, > what is the value > in defining the END.OTP behavior?  (Taken in the > extreme, until there is > such a definition, any implementation which treated > END.OTP as END.OP > would seem to be indistinguishable from proper operation > in terms of > behavior on the wire.) > > Yours, > Joel > > On 12/18/2019 7:01 PM, Zafar Ali (zali) wrote: > > Hi Joel, > > > > Thanks for your review. > > > > The processing details were embedded in the Section 4. > > > > We brought them up in the Section 3 and also added > additional normative > > language in Section 4. > > > > We have been maintaining the latest version of the > draft in the Github... > > > > However, we also posted the latest diffs, which > addresses your comments > > as follows: > > > >   * In the new revision, we have added normative text > at the beginning > >     of 3.1.1 where O-bit is defined. > >   * Sections 3.3 and 3.4 adds normative texts for OAM > SIDs. > >   * 4.1.2 and 4.2.2 further adds additional normative > text for Ping and > >     traceroute use-cases, respectively. > > > > Latest version is kept in the Github and also > uploaded as > > > https://www.ietf.org/staging/draft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6-oam-03.txt. > > > > Thanks > > > > Regards … Zafar > > > > *From: *"Joel M. Halpern" > > > *Date: *Thursday, December 5, 2019 at 10:01 PM > > *To: *"Zafar Ali (zali)" >, 6man WG >, > > SPRING WG > > > *Subject: *Re: 6man w.g. last call for > > > > > Sorry, minor typo.  SRH, not NSH, in the 4th paragraph. > > > > Joel > > > > On 12/5/2019 9:42 PM, Joel M. Halpern wrote: > > > >     The normative behavior for the bits in various > places says that the > > > >     packet is punted to the control process.  In and > of itself, that is > >     fine. > > > >     However, in order for that to be useful, the > control process has to > >     know > > > >     what to do with the packet when it gets there. > In the classic case of > > > >     router redirect, this is coupled with definition > of various content to > > > >     be processed by the router control logic. > > > >     In the case of this document, there is no > normative definition of what > > > >     the control process is to do with the packet. > And particularly > >     since in > > > >     many of the cases described the packet that is > punted still has an SRH, > > > >     normal packet processing would simply reach the > same "punt" step.  With > > > >     nowhere to punt it. > > > >     You asssume in the examples that some forms of > parsing that bypass the > > > >     NSH will take place.  But processing does not > take place by instinct or > > > >     magic.  It takes place because we write RFCs that > describe what has to > > > >     happen.  Without some definition of the required > parsing, and I believe > > > >     (although I am guessing due to the lack of > description) we also need > > > >     some normative description of what the control > process is required > >     to do. > > > >     Note that in most OAM, we define the behavior > that is required, and > >     then > > > >     indicate where it is permitted to use the control > plane to achieve it. > > > >     This results in a clear specification, and > implementation flexibility. > > > >     Yours, > > > >     Joel > > > >     On 12/5/2019 9:34 PM, Zafar Ali (zali) wrote: > > > >         Hi Joel, > > > >         I did not understand your comment. > > > >         Can you please point to specific text in the > draft for which the > >         draft > > > >         needs to define normative behavior for the > "node punt processor > >         look > > > >         past the SRH and make determinations based on > the content."? > > > >         Thanks > > > >         Regards … Zafar > > > >         *From: *ipv6 > >          >> on behalf of "Joel M. > Halpern" > > > >          > >> > > > >         *Date: *Wednesday, December 4, 2019 at 4:37 PM > > > >         *To: *Ole Troan > >          >>, 6man WG > >         >>, > > > >         SPRING WG >> > > > >         *Subject: *Re: 6man w.g. last call for > >          > > > >         I re-read this draft, and I am afraid it is > currently > >         under-specified. > > > >         In order for the various examples to work, > there is assumed > >         behavior by > > > >         the processor to which packets are punted.  I > could not find > >         where this > > > >         normative behavior is described > explicitly.  It appears that the > > > >         behavior requires that the node "punt > processor" look past the > >         SRH and > > > >         make determinations based on the > content.  This needs to be > >         described > > > >         explicitly.  And it needs some discussion of > why it is legitimate to > > > >         look past the SRH when the SRH does not show > SL=0. > > > >         Yours, > > > >         Joel > > > >         On 12/4/2019 3:53 PM, Ole Troan wrote: > > > >              Hello, > > > >                   As agreed in the working group > session in Singapore, this > > > >              message starts a new two week 6MAN > Working Group Last Call on > > > >         advancing: > > > >                   Title    : Operations, > Administration, and Maintenance > >         (OAM) in > > > >              Segment Routing Networks with IPv6 Data > plane (SRv6) > > > >                   Author   : Z. Ali, C. Filsfils, S. > Matsushima, D. > >         Voyer, M. Chen > > > >                   Filename : > draft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6-oam-02 > > > >                   Pages    : 23 > > > >                   Date     : 2019-11-20 > > > > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6-oam/ > > > >              as a Proposed Standard. > > > >              Substantive comments and statements of > support for > >         publishing this > > > >              document should be directed to the > mailing list. > > > >              Editorial suggestions can be sent to the > author. This last > >         call will > > > >              end on the 18th of December 2019. > > > >              To improve document quality and ensure > that bugs are caught > >         as early > > > >              as possible, we would require at least > > > >              two reviewers to do a complete review of the > >         document.  Please let > > > >              the chairs know if you are willing to be > a reviewer. > > > >              The last call will be forwarded to the > spring working > >         group, with > > > >              discussion directed to the ipv6 list. > > > >              Thanks, > > > >              Bob & Ole, 6man co-chairs > > > > > > >  -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >              IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > > > > ipv6@ietf.org > > > > > > > >              Administrative Requests: > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > > > > > > >  -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > >  -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >         IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > > > > ipv6@ietf.org > > > > > > > >         Administrative Requests: > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > > > > >  -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > >  -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >     IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > > > > ipv6@ietf.org > > > > > >     Administrative Requests: > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > > > > >  -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > From nobody Thu Dec 19 09:44:11 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E66A1202DD; 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Thu, 19 Dec 2019 09:43:58 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <15bc440b-1dbc-0930-137f-f016ca527c2c@joelhalpern.com> <8FAF234D-B5C9-42C7-B483-F57C4ECB349F@cisco.com> <6c3eabf3-410d-ecb6-324f-967544b29a30@joelhalpern.com> <95afdc48-b88a-ab1f-f51f-13193ba5dc1c@joelhalpern.com> <8F662D6A-1720-4D31-AEB8-6A3F7E40E996@cisco.com> <13540a0f-a653-2e52-d253-062b647454d7@joelhalpern.com> <8B69112B-5093-4109-8423-9B54A2744A19@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <8B69112B-5093-4109-8423-9B54A2744A19@cisco.com> From: Greg Mirsky Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2019 09:43:47 -0800 Message-ID: To: "Zafar Ali (zali)" Cc: Robert Raszuk , SPRING WG , 6man WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000164370059a121b78" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] 6man w.g. last call for - END.OTP X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2019 17:44:05 -0000 --000000000000164370059a121b78 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Zafar, thank you for your clarification, most helpful. If END.OTP is not intended to be used in conjunction with iOAM in UIPv6, may I suggest to add a text which will make that explicit. For example, END.OTP MUST NOT be used in IPv6 packets that include iOAM. If END.OTP and iOAM are both present in the IPv6 packet, END.OTP processing MUST be skipped and only iOAM MUST be processed. An implementation MUST use mechanisms, e.g., logging, to inform an operator of the conflict between OAM functions. Regards, Greg On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 9:27 AM Zafar Ali (zali) wrote: > Hi Greg, > > > > The END.OTP SID is NOT defined or to be used for in-situ OAM. > > > > Thanks > > > > Regards =E2=80=A6 Zafar > > > > *From: *ipv6 on behalf of Greg Mirsky < > gregimirsky@gmail.com> > *Date: *Thursday, December 19, 2019 at 10:21 AM > *To: *Robert Raszuk > *Cc: *SPRING WG , 6man WG > *Subject: *Re: [spring] 6man w.g. last call for > - END.OTP > > > > Hi Robert, > > thank you for your quick response. Could you please help me understand ho= w > this proposed mechanism complements what is defined in the combination of= iOAM > data and iOAM > in IPv6 > drafts? As I understand it, the data draft already includes the mechanism > to trigger the timestamp collection on a node by setting the appropriate > flags in the IOAM-Trace-Type field. And the IOAM-Trace-Type field is part > of iOAM in IPv6 encapsulation. If that is the case, I don't see the gap > that needs to be closed but the duplication of functionality by the > proposed END..OTP function. > > > > Regards, > > Greg > > > > On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 7:06 AM Robert Raszuk > wrote: > > Hi Greg, > > > > > I believe that iOAM already has defined a method to collect timestamps > > > and the method to trigger timestamping described in the draft we're > > > discussing is duplicating that. Would you agree? > > > > Nope not at all. > > > > The timestamping is needed in the SR paths in the outer header. iOAM says= : > > > > Scope: This document defines the data fields and associated data > > types for in-situ OAM. The in-situ OAM data field can be transported > > by a variety of transport protocols, including NSH, Segment Routing, > > Geneve, IPv6, or IPv4. * Specification details for these different* > > * transport protocols are outside the scope of this document.* > > > > I think current SR OAM draft fills that gap. > > > > Thx > > R. > > > > > > > > On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 3:49 PM Greg Mirsky wrote= : > > Hi Robert, > > could you please clarify your statement "there is huge value > in defining packet timestamping in all oam documents IETF produces these > days"? Is that applicable to Active OAM methods or to other OAM > methodologies, including, Passive and Hybrid? If the timestamping operati= on > is entirely local to a networking node is applied to a data flow, in othe= r > words, the timestamp value is not stored in the forwarded downstream data > packet, which performance metric your expect to produce? Or is the > expectation to use the Alternate Marking methodology, as described in RFC > 8321, in combination with the local timestamping? If the product of the > timestamping operation is stored in the data packet, then how is that > different from what is already described in the iOAM draft you've > referenced? I believe that iOAM already has defined a method to collect > timestamps and the method to trigger timestamping described in the draft > we're discussing is duplicating that. Would you agree? > > > > Regards, > > Greg > > > > On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 1:56 AM Robert Raszuk wrote: > > Hi Joel, > > > > > However, there is no defined behavior that I know of that can make use > > > of this timestamp. > > > > Not sure how to read that statement. Are you expecting IETF draft to tell > vendor that computing delta of N values is needed ? Or is IETF draft need= ed > to tell packet analyzers to evaluate the quality of the path based on > packets timestamps ? Yes routers may never be involved in such processing= , > but other network monitoring components do. > > > > Sure current networking in this regard is in stone ages, but there are > real efforts and working code which goes beyond that already in place. > Example: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-data-08 > > > > So there is huge value in defining packet timestamping in all > oam documents IETF produces these days and it would be rather disservice = to > remove such important option. > > > > Thx, > > r. > > > > > > On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 1:45 AM Joel M. Halpern > wrote: > > If I am reading the draft correctly, the difference between END.OP and > END.OTP is that an internal process is to attach in some internal > location a timestamp to the packet. In the abstract, I understand why > such cna be useful. > > However, there is no defined behavior that I know of that can make use > of this timestamp. Until such a behavior is defined, what is the value > in defining the END.OTP behavior? (Taken in the extreme, until there is > such a definition, any implementation which treated END.OTP as END.OP > would seem to be indistinguishable from proper operation in terms of > behavior on the wire.) > > Yours, > Joel > > On 12/18/2019 7:01 PM, Zafar Ali (zali) wrote: > > Hi Joel, > > > > Thanks for your review. > > > > The processing details were embedded in the Section 4. > > > > We brought them up in the Section 3 and also added additional normative > > language in Section 4. > > > > We have been maintaining the latest version of the draft in the Github.= .. > > > > However, we also posted the latest diffs, which addresses your comments > > as follows: > > > > * In the new revision, we have added normative text at the beginning > > of 3.1.1 where O-bit is defined. > > * Sections 3.3 and 3.4 adds normative texts for OAM SIDs. > > * 4.1.2 and 4.2.2 further adds additional normative text for Ping and > > traceroute use-cases, respectively. > > > > Latest version is kept in the Github and also uploaded as > > https://www.ietf.org/staging/draft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6-oam-03.txt. > > > > Thanks > > > > Regards =E2=80=A6 Zafar > > > > *From: *"Joel M. Halpern" > > *Date: *Thursday, December 5, 2019 at 10:01 PM > > *To: *"Zafar Ali (zali)" , 6man WG , > > SPRING WG > > *Subject: *Re: 6man w.g. last call for > > > > Sorry, minor typo. SRH, not NSH, in the 4th paragraph. > > > > Joel > > > > On 12/5/2019 9:42 PM, Joel M. Halpern wrote: > > > > The normative behavior for the bits in various places says that the > > > > packet is punted to the control process. In and of itself, that is > > fine. > > > > However, in order for that to be useful, the control process has to > > know > > > > what to do with the packet when it gets there. In the classic case > of > > > > router redirect, this is coupled with definition of various content > to > > > > be processed by the router control logic. > > > > In the case of this document, there is no normative definition of > what > > > > the control process is to do with the packet. And particularly > > since in > > > > many of the cases described the packet that is punted still has an > SRH, > > > > normal packet processing would simply reach the same "punt" step. > With > > > > nowhere to punt it. > > > > You asssume in the examples that some forms of parsing that bypass > the > > > > NSH will take place. But processing does not take place by instinc= t > or > > > > magic. It takes place because we write RFCs that describe what has > to > > > > happen. Without some definition of the required parsing, and I > believe > > > > (although I am guessing due to the lack of description) we also nee= d > > > > some normative description of what the control process is required > > to do. > > > > Note that in most OAM, we define the behavior that is required, and > > then > > > > indicate where it is permitted to use the control plane to achieve > it. > > > > This results in a clear specification, and implementation > flexibility. > > > > Yours, > > > > Joel > > > > On 12/5/2019 9:34 PM, Zafar Ali (zali) wrote: > > > > Hi Joel, > > > > I did not understand your comment. > > > > Can you please point to specific text in the draft for which th= e > > draft > > > > needs to define normative behavior for the "node punt processor > > look > > > > past the SRH and make determinations based on the content."? > > > > Thanks > > > > Regards =E2=80=A6 Zafar > > > > *From: *ipv6 > > on behalf of "Joel M. Halpern" > > > > jmh@joelhalpern.com>> > > > > *Date: *Wednesday, December 4, 2019 at 4:37 PM > > > > *To: *Ole Troan > >, 6man WG > >, > > > > SPRING WG > > > > > *Subject: *Re: 6man w.g. last call for > > > > > > I re-read this draft, and I am afraid it is currently > > under-specified. > > > > In order for the various examples to work, there is assumed > > behavior by > > > > the processor to which packets are punted. I could not find > > where this > > > > normative behavior is described explicitly. It appears that th= e > > > > behavior requires that the node "punt processor" look past the > > SRH and > > > > make determinations based on the content. This needs to be > > described > > > > explicitly. And it needs some discussion of why it is > legitimate to > > > > look past the SRH when the SRH does not show SL=3D0. > > > > Yours, > > > > Joel > > > > On 12/4/2019 3:53 PM, Ole Troan wrote: > > > > Hello, > > > > As agreed in the working group session in Singapore, > this > > > > message starts a new two week 6MAN Working Group Last Call > on > > > > advancing: > > > > Title : Operations, Administration, and Maintenanc= e > > (OAM) in > > > > Segment Routing Networks with IPv6 Data plane (SRv6) > > > > Author : Z. Ali, C. Filsfils, S. Matsushima, D. > > Voyer, M. Chen > > > > Filename : draft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6-oam-02 > > > > Pages : 23 > > > > Date : 2019-11-20 > > > > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6-oam/ > > > > as a Proposed Standard. > > > > Substantive comments and statements of support for > > publishing this > > > > document should be directed to the mailing list. > > > > Editorial suggestions can be sent to the author. This last > > call will > > > > end on the 18th of December 2019. > > > > To improve document quality and ensure that bugs are caugh= t > > as early > > > > as possible, we would require at least > > > > two reviewers to do a complete review of the > > document. Please let > > > > the chairs know if you are willing to be a reviewer. > > > > The last call will be forwarded to the spring working > > group, with > > > > discussion directed to the ipv6 list. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Bob & Ole, 6man co-chairs > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > > > > ipv6@ietf.org > > > > Administrative Requests: > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > > > > ipv6@ietf.org > > > > Administrative Requests: > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------= - > > > > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > > > > ipv6@ietf.org > > > > Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------= - > > > > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > --000000000000164370059a121b78 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Zafar,
thank you for your clarification, most helpf= ul. If END.OTP is not intended to be used in conjunction=C2=A0with iOAM in = UIPv6, may I suggest to add a text which=C2=A0will make that explicit. For = example,
END.OTP MUST NOT be used in IPv6 packets that include iOAM. If END.= OTP and iOAM are both present in the IPv6 packet, END.OTP processing MUST b= e skipped and only iOAM MUST be processed. An implementation MUST use mecha= nisms, e.g., logging, to inform an operator of the conflict between OAM fun= ctions.

Regards,
Greg
=

= On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 9:27 AM Zafar Ali (zali) <zali@cisco.com> wrote:

Hi Greg,

=C2=A0

The END.OTP SID is NOT defined or to be used for in-= situ OAM.

=C2=A0

Thanks

=C2=A0

Regards =E2=80=A6 Zafar

=C2=A0

From: = ipv6 <ipv6-bounces@ietf.org>= ; on behalf of Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
Date: Thursday, December 19, 2019 at 10:21 AM
To: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Cc: SPRING WG <spring@ietf.org>, 6man WG <ipv6@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [spring] 6man w.g. last call for <draft-ietf-6man-sp= ring-srv6-oam> - END.OTP

=C2=A0

Hi Robert,

thank you for your quick response. Could you please = help me understand how this proposed mechanism complements what is defined = in the combination of iOAM data and iOAM in IPv6 drafts? As I understand it, the data d= raft already includes the mechanism to trigger the timestamp collection on = a node by setting the appropriate flags in the=C2=A0IOAM-Trace-Type field. And the IOAM-Trace-Type field is part of iOAM in IPv6 encapsulation= . If that is=C2=A0the case, I don't see the gap that needs to be closed= but the duplication of functionality by the proposed END..OTP function.=

=C2=A0

Regards,

Greg

=C2=A0

On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 7:06 AM Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net= > wrote:

Hi Greg,

=C2=A0

> I believe that iOAM already has defined a metho= d to collect timestamps=C2=A0

> and the method to trigger timestamping describe= d in the draft we're=C2=A0

> discussing is duplicating that. Would you agree= ?=C2=A0=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Nope not at all.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

The timestamping is needed in the SR paths in the ou= ter header. iOAM says:

=C2=A0

=C2=A0=C2=A0 S=
cope: This document defines the data fields and associated data
=C2=A0=C2=A0 types for in-situ OAM.=C2=A0 =
The in-situ OAM data field can be transported
=C2=A0=C2=A0 by a variety of transport pro=
tocols, including NSH, Segment Routing,
=C2=A0=C2=A0 Geneve, IPv6, or IPv4. =C2=
=A0Specification details for these different
=C2=A0=C2=A0 transport protocols are ou=
tside the scope of this document.=

=C2=A0<=
u>
I think curren=
t SR OAM draft fills that gap.=C2=A0
=C2=A0
Thx
R.
=C2=A0
=C2=A0

=C2=A0

On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 3:49 PM Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.co= m> wrote:

Hi Robert,

could you please clarify your statement "there = is huge value in=C2=A0defining=C2=A0packet timestamping in all oam=C2=A0doc= uments IETF produces these days"? Is that applicable to Active OAM met= hods or to other OAM methodologies, including, Passive and Hybrid? If the timestamping operation is entirely local to a networking no= de is applied to a data flow, in other words, the timestamp value is not st= ored in the forwarded downstream data packet, which performance metric your= expect to produce? Or is the expectation to use the Alternate Marking methodology, as described in RFC 8321, in com= bination with the local timestamping? If the product of the timestamping op= eration is stored in the data packet, then how is that different from what = is already described in the iOAM draft you've referenced? I believe that iOAM already has defined a met= hod to collect timestamps and the method to trigger timestamping described = in the draft we're discussing is duplicating that. Would you agree?<= /u>

=C2=A0

Regards,

Greg

=C2=A0

On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 1:56 AM Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net&= gt; wrote:

Hi Joel,

=C2=A0

>=C2=A0 However, there is no defined behavior tha= t I know of that can make use=C2=A0

>=C2=A0of this timestamp.=C2=A0 =C2=A0<= /u>

=C2=A0

Not sure how to read that statement. Are you expecti= ng IETF draft to tell vendor that computing=C2=A0delta of N values is neede= d ? Or is IETF draft needed to tell packet analyzers to evaluate the qualit= y of the path based on packets timestamps ? Yes routers may never be involved in such processing, but other network = monitoring components do.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Sure current networking in this regard is in stone a= ges, but there are real efforts and working code which goes beyond that alr= eady in place. Example: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-data-08<= /p>

=C2=A0

So there is huge value in=C2=A0defining=C2=A0packet = timestamping in all oam=C2=A0documents IETF produces these days and it woul= d be rather disservice to remove such important option.=C2=A0=

=C2=A0

Thx,

r.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 1:45 AM Joel M. Halpern <= jmh@joelhalpern.co= m> wrote:

If I am reading the draft correctly, the difference = between END.OP and
END.OTP is that an internal process is to attach in some internal
location a timestamp to the packet.=C2=A0 In the abstract, I understand why=
such cna be useful.

However, there is no defined behavior that I know of that can make use
of this timestamp.=C2=A0 Until such a behavior is defined, what is the valu= e
in defining the END.OTP behavior?=C2=A0 (Taken in the extreme, until there = is
such a definition, any implementation which treated END.OTP as END.OP
would seem to be indistinguishable from proper operation in terms of
behavior on the wire.)

Yours,
Joel

On 12/18/2019 7:01 PM, Zafar Ali (zali) wrote:
> Hi Joel,
>
> Thanks for your review.
>
> The processing details were embedded in the Section 4.
>
> We brought them up in the Section 3 and also added additional normativ= e
> language in Section 4.
>
> We have been maintaining the latest version of the draft in the Github= ...
>
> However, we also posted the latest diffs, which addresses your comment= s
> as follows:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0* In the new revision, we have added normative text at the= beginning
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0of 3.1.1 where O-bit is defined.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0* Sections 3.3 and 3.4 adds normative texts for OAM SIDs.<= br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0* 4.1.2 and 4.2.2 further adds additional normative text f= or Ping and
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0traceroute use-cases, respectively.
>
> Latest version is kept in the Github and also uploaded as
> https://www.ietf.org/staging/draft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6-oam-03.txt. >
> Thanks
>
> Regards =E2=80=A6 Zafar
>
> *From: *"Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>
> *Date: *Thursday, December 5, 2019 at 10:01 PM
> *To: *"Zafar Ali (zali)" <zali@cisco.com>, 6man WG <ipv6@ietf.org>,
> SPRING WG <spr= ing@ietf.org>
> *Subject: *Re: 6man w.g. last call for <draft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6= -oam>
>
> Sorry, minor typo.=C2=A0=C2=A0SRH, not NSH, in the 4th paragraph.
>
> Joel
>
> On 12/5/2019 9:42 PM, Joel M. Halpern wrote:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0The normative behavior for the bits in various plac= es says that the
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0packet is punted to the control process.=C2=A0 In a= nd of itself, that is
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0fine.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0However, in order for that to be useful, the contro= l process has to
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0know
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0what to do with the packet when it gets there.=C2= =A0 In the classic case of
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0router redirect, this is coupled with definition of= various content to
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0be processed by the router control logic.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0In the case of this document, there is no normative= definition of what
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0the control process is to do with the packet.=C2=A0= And particularly
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0since in
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0many of the cases described the packet that is punt= ed still has an SRH,
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0normal packet processing would simply reach the sam= e "punt" step.=C2=A0 With
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0nowhere to punt it.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0You asssume in the examples that some forms of pars= ing that bypass the
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0NSH will take place.=C2=A0 But processing does not = take place by instinct or
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0magic.=C2=A0 It takes place because we write RFCs t= hat describe what has to
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0happen.=C2=A0 Without some definition of the requir= ed parsing, and I believe
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0(although I am guessing due to the lack of descript= ion) we also need
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0some normative description of what the control proc= ess is required
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0to do.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Note that in most OAM, we define the behavior that = is required, and
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0then
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0indicate where it is permitted to use the control p= lane to achieve it.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0This results in a clear specification, and implemen= tation flexibility.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Yours,
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Joel
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0On 12/5/2019 9:34 PM, Zafar Ali (zali) wrote:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Hi Joel,
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0I did not understand your comment. >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Can you please point to specific text= in the draft for which the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0draft
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0needs to define normative behavior fo= r the "node punt processor
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0look
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0past the SRH and make determinations = based on the content."?
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Thanks
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Regards =E2=80=A6 Zafar
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0*From: *ipv6 <ipv6-bounces@ietf.org
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:ipv6-bounces@ietf.org>> on behal= f of "Joel M. Halpern"
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<jmh@joelhalpern.com <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com>><= br> >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0*Date: *Wednesday, December 4, 2019 a= t 4:37 PM
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0*To: *Ole Troan <otroan@employees.org
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:otroan@employees.org>>, 6man WG &= lt;ipv6@ietf.org
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:ipv6@ietf.org>>,
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0SPRING WG <spring@ietf.org <mailto:spring@ietf.org>>
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0*Subject: *Re: 6man w.g. last call fo= r
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<draft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6-oam&g= t;
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0I re-read this draft, and I am afraid= it is currently
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0under-specified.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0In order for the various examples to = work, there is assumed
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0behavior by
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0the processor to which packets are pu= nted.=C2=A0=C2=A0I could not find
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0where this
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0normative behavior is described expli= citly.=C2=A0=C2=A0It appears that the
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0behavior requires that the node "= ;punt processor" look past the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0SRH and
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0make determinations based on the cont= ent.=C2=A0=C2=A0This needs to be
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0described
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0explicitly.=C2=A0=C2=A0And it needs s= ome discussion of why it is legitimate to
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0look past the SRH when the SRH does n= ot show SL=3D0.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Yours,
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Joel
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0On 12/4/2019 3:53 PM, Ole Troan wrote= :
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Hello,
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0As agreed in the working group session in Singapore, this >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 message starts a = new two week 6MAN Working Group Last Call on
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0advancing:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Title=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0: Operations, Administration, a= nd Maintenance
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0(OAM) in
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Segment Routing N= etworks with IPv6 Data plane (SRv6)
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Author=C2=A0=C2=A0 : Z. Ali, C. Filsfils, S. Matsushima, D.<= br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Voyer, M. Chen
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Filename : draft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6-oam-02
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Pages=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0: 23
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Date=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 : 2019-11-20
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://datatrac= ker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6-oam/
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 as a Proposed Sta= ndard.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Substantive comme= nts and statements of support for
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0publishing this
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 document should b= e directed to the mailing list.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Editorial suggest= ions can be sent to the author. This last
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0call will
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 end on the 18th o= f December 2019.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 To improve docume= nt quality and ensure that bugs are caught
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0as early
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 as possible, we w= ould require at least
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 two reviewers to = do a complete review of the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0document.=C2=A0=C2=A0Please let
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 the chairs know i= f you are willing to be a reviewer.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 The last call wil= l be forwarded to the spring working
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0group, with
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 discussion direct= ed to the ipv6 list.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Thanks,
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Bob & Ole, 6m= an co-chairs
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0-------------------------------------= -------------------------------
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 IETF IPv6 working= group mailing list
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0ipv6@ietf.org <mailto:ipv6@ietf.org> <mailto:ipv6@ietf.org>
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Administrative Re= quests:
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i= pv6
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0-------------------------------------= -------------------------------
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0-------------------------------------= -------------------------------
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0IETF IPv6 working group mailing list<= br> >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0ipv6@ietf.org <mailto:ipv6@ietf.org> <mailto:ipv6@ietf.org>
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0-------------------------------------= -------------------------------
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0---------------------------------------------------= -----------------
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0IETF IPv6 working group mailing list
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= ipv6@ietf.org <mailto:ipv6@ietf.org>
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0---------------------------------------------------= -----------------
>

_______________________________________________
spring mailing list
spring@ietf.org = https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring

----------------------------------------------------= ----------------
IETF IPv6 working group mailing list
ipv6@ietf.org
Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6
--------------------------------------------------------------------=

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DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=joelhalpern.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NxNTXkC98Qld for ; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 10:34:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from maila2.tigertech.net (maila2.tigertech.net [208.80.4.152]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ACA20120A08 for ; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 10:34:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by maila2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47f0s24LqDz6GDGq; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 10:34:14 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=joelhalpern.com; s=2.tigertech; t=1576780454; bh=feAZupY/YzqQE37zUyC7pTOWwQAHxaMaxJHqWyJRU5w=; h=Subject:To:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=TTijT7LO9m/jWX0XqxjzR4Mf0Im5ZANhpjB/o05wlqisMTVK3vPCt61vi04AuRliS KobYYnsCtr00JTmKf9fNnX3i35CY0kxySEYopMmbbm8yXPzUROJesBVOSFgCkwWoiy VnQfEd4Z6+rgTgBEh2aOfaqJA1r5kA2QmPyYWzMg= X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at a2.tigertech.net Received: from [192.168.128.43] (209-255-163-147.ip.mcleodusa.net [209.255.163.147]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by maila2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 47f0s20jKhz6GDFt; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 10:34:13 -0800 (PST) To: "Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)" , "spring@ietf.org" References: From: "Joel M. Halpern" Message-ID: <38492ce0-936e-af52-5cae-5be265ee7454@joelhalpern.com> Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2019 13:34:12 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] SRv6 Network Programming Endpoint Behavior Registry X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2019 18:34:16 -0000 Thanks Pablo. Given that I know some folks read it differently, could we add some additional text. Maybe in 3.1, after the sentence you quote about FUNCT, add "The means of associating the behaviors defined in this document with specific FUNCT bit patterns is outside the scope of this document." And in section 9.2, could we add: "This registry is established to provide consistency for control means which need to refer to these behaviors. It does not represent encodings within SIDs?" Thank you, Joel On 12/19/2019 12:54 PM, Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril) wrote: > Joel, > > Thank you for your question. Your original understanding is correct. > > The table “SRv6 Endpoint Behaviors†contains behaviors. Behaviors are > not present in the SRv6 SIDs. They are only used in the control plane. > > As you requested, here is the relevant piece of text: > > Section 2 (Terminology): > >    SRv6 SID function: The function part of the SID is an opaque > >    identification of a local behavior bound to the SID.  It is formally > >    defined in Section 3.1 > of > this document. > >    SRv6 segment endpoint behavior: A packet processing behavior executed > >    at an SRv6 segment endpoint. > > Section 3.1 (SID Format): > >    This document defines an SRv6 SID as consisting of LOC:FUNCT:ARG, > >    where a locator (LOC) is encoded in the L most significant bits of > >    the SID, followed by F bits of function (FUNCT) and A bits of > >    arguments (ARG). > > ... > >    The FUNCT is an opaque identification of a local behavior bound to > >    the SID. > >    The term "function" refers to the bit-string in the SRv6 SID.  The > >    term "behavior" identifies the behavior bound to the SID. > > Section 9.2 (IANA) > >     Table 3: SRv6 Endpoint *Behaviors* Registry > > Thank you, > > Pablo. > > -----Original Message----- > > From: spring on behalf of "Joel M. Halpern" > > > Date: Thursday, 19 December 2019 at 16:35 > > To: "spring@ietf.org" > > Subject: [spring] SRv6 Network Programming Endpoint Behavior Registry > >     In talking with folks, and looking at the draft, I realized that there > >     were two different interpretations of the Endpoint Behavior Registry. > >     I can not tell which is intended. > >     I had assumed, possibly incorrectly, that the list of code points > was a > >     list of code points to use in routing and control protocols (so all > the > >     control mechanisms sould have inter-changeable semantics for SRv6 > SIDs. > >     I thus assumed that one would see in routing an advertisement that in > >     some form said "SID prefix X is serviced by node Y and provides > >     functionality of Endpoint Behavior Z, with the remaining bits as > defined > >     in the registry." > >     Other folks have read this text as defining the bits that must > appear in > >     the explicit SID in the SID list, between the loactor portion and the > >     arguments.  This would provide some small savings in the routing and > >     control infrastructure (but not a lot since there still need to be > >     advertisements about what Endpoint Behaviors each node actually > >     supports.)  This would seem to constrain implementations to use > exactly > >     these code point.  I am reminded of diffserv, where we looked at doing > >     that and concluded that operator needs were such that it did not make > >     sense to mandate the on-the-wire code point. > >     Can the authors please clarify which meaning they intend?  Possibly by > >     pointing me at the wording in the document that makes it clear? > >     Thank you, > >     Joel > >     _______________________________________________ > >     spring mailing list > >     spring@ietf.org > >     https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > From nobody Thu Dec 19 10:44:28 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1AA8120AE3 for ; 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Thu, 19 Dec 2019 18:44:18 +0000 From: "Darren Dukes (ddukes)" To: Andrew Alston CC: Alexandre Petrescu , SPRING WG email list Thread-Topic: [spring] packet captures for draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-06? 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xwINAk3vvetPHCWniqlYJfBfSQVVrLsyutLWMlQb1uLOk15iAAQGZ4jgwFJnMZtDb1q5 1TAw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWI5bLFw+C1qNM2Vof0gBbZCIYAeGfP37R4mSkt+C91p0oJn3EH fG5yp+JB/t5CUToBFKCDWtVDBqOPEkBEg7cTJxQ= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwiu/P11QDloV97shWxGgCZumvhL9bNov9p3jqdoG2G7JnQDo6r/UGw+yO60QOCYqBjVWZGH8Rn48/ROwEHZFc= X-Received: by 2002:aca:cf50:: with SMTP id f77mr3198642oig.60.1576790243328; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 13:17:23 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <8f5607c9-645a-ea88-e2a7-a4bed8206fc8@gmail.com> <63F5AA66-AEF8-4278-B98C-D3C53AC5A60A@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <63F5AA66-AEF8-4278-B98C-D3C53AC5A60A@cisco.com> From: Mark Smith Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2019 08:16:56 +1100 Message-ID: To: "Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)" Cc: Alexandre Petrescu , SPRING WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000056c5c6059a1516e4" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] 64-bit locators X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2019 21:17:25 -0000 --00000000000056c5c6059a1516e4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, 19 Dec 2019, 22:48 Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril), wrote: > Hi, > > As mentioned in the draft, the choice of the locator length is deployment > specific. > LINE has deployed SRv6 using a locator different than a /64. > This is effectively an appeal to authority. What makes what LINE has done the best and right thing to do? I can already see they're using the IPv4 link-local 169.254/16 prefix in a manner that wildly violates how it is specified to be used in RFC3927. See Slides 9, 12, 24. Tying your IPv6 addressing plan to IPv4 addressing could end up imposing IPv4's addressing limitations on IPv6 - defeating the primary purpose of IPv6 - providing many more addresses than IPv4. Slide 32 shows they're violating RFC 4193 (IPv6 ULAs), because they're using ULA-Cs ('fc') rather than ULA-Ls ('fd'), despite there being no central registry. Their 40 bit Global ID of "17" could be random, although I'm guessing not, as random numbers would usually have far less zeros in them. These sorts of ULA errors are why I presented "Getting IPv6 Addressing Right" at AusNOG this year - https://www.slideshare.net/markzzzsmith/ausnog-2019-getting-ipv6-private-ad= dressing-right . This is an Internet Draft, so this is the best time to make these sorts of changes, as it is much easier now. When things become RFCs it becomes much harder (and much, much harder when they become Internet Standards). If somebody has deployed Internet Draft level technology, they have to accept the risk that what they've deployed might not comply with the eventual RFC. Regards, Mark. > Cheers, > Pablo. > > [1] > https://speakerdeck.com/line_developers/line-data-center-networking-with-= srv6 > > =EF=BB=BF-----Original Message----- > From: spring on behalf of Alexandre Petrescu < > alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> > Date: Thursday, 19 December 2019 at 09:44 > To: "spring@ietf.org" > Subject: Re: [spring] 64-bit locators > > > > Le 19/12/2019 =C3=A0 00:13, Mark Smith a =C3=A9crit : > [...] > > > VLSM [variable length subnet mask] is fundamentally hard, > > We need VLSM in other places too, such as in ULA prefixes fd and fc. > > I think it is indeed a difficult to grasp concept, but it is there fo= r > growth. > > Alex > > > > > Regards, > > Mark. > > > > __ > > > > In this case, we should probably change the document to reflect > > implemented behavior.____ > > > > __ __ > > > > > > > Ron____ > > > > __ __ > > > > > > Juniper Business Use Only > > > > _______________________________________________ > > spring mailing list > > spring@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > spring mailing list > > spring@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > > > > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > > > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > --00000000000056c5c6059a1516e4 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Thu, 19 Dec 2019, 22:48 Pablo Cama= rillo (pcamaril), <pcamaril@cisco.com> wrote:
Hi,

As mentioned in the draft, the choice of the locator length is deployment s= pecific.
LINE has deployed SRv6 using a locator different than a /64.

This is effecti= vely an appeal to authority.

What makes what LINE has done the best and right thing to do?

I can already see they're using the IPv4 = link-local 169.254/16 prefix in a manner that wildly violates how it is spe= cified to be used in RFC3927. See Slides 9, 12, 24.

Tying your IPv6 addressing plan to IPv4 addressing could end up impos= ing IPv4's addressing limitations on IPv6 - defeating the primary purpo= se of IPv6 - providing many more addresses than IPv4.

Slide 32 shows they're violating RFC 4193 (IPv6 ULAs), because = they're using ULA-Cs ('fc') rather than ULA-Ls ('fd'), = despite there being no central registry.=C2=A0 Their 40 bit Global ID of &q= uot;17" could be random, although I'm guessing not, as random numb= ers would usually have far less zeros in them. These sorts of ULA errors ar= e why I presented "Getting IPv6 Addressing Right" at AusNOG this = year -=C2=A0https://www.slideshare.net/markzzzsm= ith/ausnog-2019-getting-ipv6-private-addressing-right=C2=A0.


This is an Internet D= raft, so this is the best time to make these sorts of changes, as it is muc= h easier now. When things become RFCs it becomes much harder (and much, muc= h harder when they become Internet Standards).
<= br>
If somebody has deployed Internet Draft level technology, the= y have to accept the risk that what they've deployed might not comply w= ith the eventual RFC.

Regards,
<= div>Mark.



Cheers,
Pablo.

[1] https://speakerdeck.com/line_developers/line-data-center-networking-with= -srv6

=EF=BB=BF-----Original Message-----
From: spring <spring-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf = of Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com= >
Date: Thursday, 19 December 2019 at 09:44
To: "spring@ietf.org" <spring@ietf.org= >
Subject: Re: [spring] 64-bit locators



=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Le 19/12/2019 =C3=A0 00:13, Mark Smith a =C3=A9crit :
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 [...]

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > VLSM [variable length subnet mask] is fundamentally hard= ,

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 We need VLSM in other places too, such as in ULA prefixes fd = and fc.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 I think it is indeed a difficult to grasp concept, but it is = there for
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 growth.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Alex

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > Regards,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > Mark.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0__
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0In this case, we should probably chan= ge the document to reflect
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0implemented behavior.____
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0__ __
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Ron____
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0__ __
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Juniper Business Use Only
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0_____________________________________= __________
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0spring mailing list
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0spring@ietf.org <mailt= o:spring@ietf.org>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > _______________________________________________
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > spring mailing list
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > spring@ietf.org
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > https://www.iet= f.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 _______________________________________________
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 spring mailing list
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 spring@ietf.org
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://www.ietf.or= g/mailman/listinfo/spring


_______________________________________________
spring mailing list
spring@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listi= nfo/spring
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[111.69.147.228]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id f127sm10011063pfa.112.2019.12.19.13.39.42 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 19 Dec 2019 13:39:44 -0800 (PST) To: "Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)" , "spring@ietf.org" References: <157609408568.11496.11799785813274132900@ietfa.amsl.com> <4c762fc5-8a61-e182-a9cc-d45b0f586ccc@gmail.com> <3A12D735-7899-4679-8FC8-DF8875D40A62@cisco.com> <628e5dfb-7ba4-d841-ebeb-cfc52d7294f1@gmail.com> From: Brian E Carpenter Message-ID: <49b7e45f-a26f-cf4a-f8be-9aa917c34203@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2019 10:39:39 +1300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] I-D Action: draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-06.txt X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2019 21:39:49 -0000 Sorry, I am still confused, see in line: On 20-Dec-19 00:53, Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril) wrote: > Brian, > > Inline. > > Thank you, > Pablo. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Brian E Carpenter > Date: Saturday, 14 December 2019 at 21:04 > To: "Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)" , "spring@ietf.org" > Subject: Re: [spring] I-D Action: draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-06.txt > > Hi Pablo, > > See in line: > > On 14-Dec-19 22:34, Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril) wrote: > > Brian, > > > > Many thanks for having another look to the draft. Please see inline [PC]. > > > > Thank you, > > Pablo. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: spring on behalf of Brian E Carpenter > > Date: Wednesday, 11 December 2019 at 23:06 > > To: "spring@ietf.org" > > Subject: Re: [spring] I-D Action: draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-06.txt > > > > So, I've tried to look at this with fresh eyes, and thanks for the > > various updates and clarifications. > > > > (I'm still not on the SPRING list so please leave me in CC.) > > > > I remain a bit puzzled. First, a quote from the SRH specification > > (draft-ietf-6man-segment-routing-header-26): > > > > > 4.2. Transit Node > > > > > > As specified in [RFC8200], the only node allowed to inspect the > > > Routing Extension Header (and therefore the SRH), is the node > > > corresponding to the DA of the packet. Any other transit node MUST > > > NOT inspect the underneath routing header and MUST forward the packet > > > toward the DA according to its IPv6 routing table. > > > > Next, a quote from the current draft: > > > > > SRH[n]: A shorter representation of Segment List[n], as defined in > > > [I-D.ietf-6man-segment-routing-header]. > > > > > > When a packet is intercepted on a wire, it is possible that SRH[SL] > > > is different from the DA. > > > > Huh? That would be extremely unusual in the normal interpretation > > of a routing header, where is RH[SL] is by definition the next > > destination where the RH will be processed. Any other node is a transit > > node, and I don't see anything in draft-ietf-6man-segment-routing-header-26 > > that allows for anything else. So it seems to me that the quoted statement > > needs an explanation of why it isn't a violation of > > draft-ietf-6man-segment-routing-header-26, not to mention why it's useful. > > > > PC: This occurs when we use the reduced SRH as described in: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-6man-segment-routing-header-26#section-4.1.1 > > OK, well that definitely needs to be added to the draft, since it is very far from > obvious to a newcomer. > > PC: I have removed this sentence from the latest revision of the draft. Unneeded, misleading and covered in the SRH. See rev07. Thank you for your comment. Thanks. > > > If you think this sentence does not reflect that, I can edit it for the next revision of the draft. > > > > That leads us back to: > > > > > 4.16.1. PSP: Penultimate Segment Pop of the SRH > > > > > > The SRH processing of the End, End.X and End.T behaviors are > > > modified: after the instruction "S14. Update IPv6 DA with Segment > > > List[Segments Left]" is executed, the following instructions must be > > > executed as well: > > > > > > S14.1. If (Segments Left == 0) { > > > S14.2. Update the Next Header field in the preceding header to the > > > Next Header value of the SRH > > > S14.3. Decrease the IPv6 header Payload Length by the Hdr Ext Len > > > value of the SRH > > > S14.4. Remove the SRH from the IPv6 extension header chain > > > S14.5. } > > > > This is clearly a breach of RFC8200, but it can never be reached if DA == SRH[SL]. > > > PC: PSP executes at the segment that is the Destination Address. > > I am probably being stupid, but I don't understand what is "penultimate" about > a condition where SL == 0 and the packet has reached the node that owns DA. > Where will the packet be sent next, since it's already at the final DA? > > PC: You are reading line 14 of a pseudocode. In the previous lines we have received a packet with Segments Left = 1, and we have decremented by one such value. If I have this right, the PSP case is inserted in this pseudocode: S14. Update IPv6 DA with Segment List[Segments Left] S15. Submit the packet to the egress IPv6 FIB lookup and transmission to the new destination which produces: S14. Update IPv6 DA with Segment List[Segments Left] S14.1. If (Segments Left == 0) { S14.2. Update the Next Header field in the preceding header to the Next Header value of the SRH S14.3. Decrease the IPv6 header Payload Length by the Hdr Ext Len value of the SRH S14.4. Remove the SRH from the IPv6 extension header chain S14.5. } S15. Submit the packet to the egress IPv6 FIB lookup and transmission to the new destination That's explicitly removing the header before forwarding the packet. How can that not be a violation of RFC 8200? And where is it forwarded to, since we are already at the DA? Brian From nobody Thu Dec 19 13:57:52 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9354120180 for ; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 13:57:50 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.997 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.997 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id K4mnGnytX2zf for ; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 13:57:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-io1-xd2d.google.com (mail-io1-xd2d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d2d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8B5541200CC for ; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 13:57:47 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-io1-xd2d.google.com with SMTP id b10so7345140iof.11 for ; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 13:57:47 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=bY/mcsBQZgu2pzvujwmCqXlTXcTR7qbVIA6a0NRUbKo=; b=kz74Qm+/rTviMVtf7hoj4qLoZ5dA+nl3sHyUSfAQGMz9nJtstVVphUr+xZ67dkbKMY M9T+uWIpjJBb/EstGRQos0skvt4WLSu6YVd/9DlRppAyx+47f9w+7BYNPc1B0gyk4z0x 4i3/ZfEB+9E6S3zxOU0/lPx7S49jxYr3lOJHTD5gO/RaCX2+QjUFB9eHoPcWttmzSK4u fHT4VdliUZYBSrGxMrZJvOno75ZrBSxWnnGUs2DCtTq2CvUI2UmrMAanUL7UZ7ljEDQ3 H120oNl0pXqZs5re5uMCmvSrg2seaYjnVWh3m3DJahzAo91E77Cm8oy1gFddLlf0T4fs oD1g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=bY/mcsBQZgu2pzvujwmCqXlTXcTR7qbVIA6a0NRUbKo=; b=FdzD6zE1LX3ky/kCRyoLXghihNLpl5g8xo54pGfg9d0XZrwoEsV2rKI1K/k8wo8EEL loHeQDhh9fDk8GZIEP6iriB91YrValXWtm2iQS0z6MZQzlVn25eo8yO+Tapqsd47sxVn VxRbubvhoZTD7hytfebwwUbYd+jQMpAIGCPVq8m2BN9FIjn0RuQbl9kUyb5izeB8nS+U q966CiLTQZLUc1AQvi2R7qoYydeICCnrfIng144BVPB5+oCMvdID9wysSBSIL2Fkfadf x0AMB69mWsSgyyJtBGmyf2J9JKCkojQZnJ9X2YN9DbDYkDy0p9hUo2GcXgJP4dfpPeva 9ZuQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAU3Nl2EXN941yA3E9DgIM9COQ7N2i7fRF2KaRxzuVcnNJiSppnE 3rCYuG+udVS96Nk0H7UUxhLQjMPUE2PBsLRAFbk= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwa2NN5HL5MYBxUI/TPDbaQIt0RopNWkCAkbCYoWsT0F41f+iIfA7tgGKXbk5elGhIuc/U0ckLSyDWWz8k8PVI= X-Received: by 2002:a6b:c9ca:: with SMTP id z193mr7367664iof.276.1576792666725; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 13:57:46 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <8f5607c9-645a-ea88-e2a7-a4bed8206fc8@gmail.com> <63F5AA66-AEF8-4278-B98C-D3C53AC5A60A@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: From: Gyan Mishra Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2019 16:57:36 -0500 Message-ID: To: Mark Smith Cc: Alexandre Petrescu , "Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)" , SPRING WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000c8dfcd059a15a6fc" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] 64-bit locators X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2019 21:57:51 -0000 --000000000000c8dfcd059a15a6fc Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 4:17 PM Mark Smith wrote: > > > On Thu, 19 Dec 2019, 22:48 Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril), > wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> As mentioned in the draft, the choice of the locator length is deploymen= t >> specific. >> LINE has deployed SRv6 using a locator different than a /64. >> > > This is effectively an appeal to authority. > > What makes what LINE has done the best and right thing to do? > > I can already see they're using the IPv4 link-local 169.254/16 prefix in = a > manner that wildly violates how it is specified to be used in RFC3927. Se= e > Slides 9, 12, 24. > > Tying your IPv6 addressing plan to IPv4 addressing could end up imposing > IPv4's addressing limitations on IPv6 - defeating the primary purpose of > IPv6 - providing many more addresses than IPv4. > > Slide 32 shows they're violating RFC 4193 (IPv6 ULAs), because they're > using ULA-Cs ('fc') rather than ULA-Ls ('fd'), despite there being no > central registry. Their 40 bit Global ID of "17" could be random, althou= gh > I'm guessing not, as random numbers would usually have far less zeros in > them. These sorts of ULA errors are why I presented "Getting IPv6 > Addressing Right" at AusNOG this year - > https://www.slideshare.net/markzzzsmith/ausnog-2019-getting-ipv6-private-= addressing-right > . > > > This is an Internet Draft, so this is the best time to make these sorts o= f > changes, as it is much easier now. When things become RFCs it becomes muc= h > harder (and much, much harder when they become Internet Standards). > > If somebody has deployed Internet Draft level technology, they have to > accept the risk that what they've deployed might not comply with the > eventual RFC. > > Regards, > Mark. > [Gyan] For IPv6 addressing you can have any length prefix up to /128. i am all for flexibility with vlsm even though may not be widely used. SRv6 SID encoding differs in that we had 3 fields {locator;function;arguments} that I think it makes sense to be fixed in the specification as Ron has brought up. >From an operator perspective for programmability as SRv6 deployments with or without centralized controller, fixed length of the 3 fields makes sense so operators can easily craft ACLs for deployments. I think we could go crazy with the sizing but I think since 64 bit boundary exists today for slaac we could make the locator /64 as well is fine. We could split the other 2 fields evenly 32 bits each or make the function longer. I think we=E2=80=99ll defined sizing is important so SID addressin= g plan is not chaotic. > > > >> Cheers, >> Pablo. >> >> [1] >> https://speakerdeck.com/line_developers/line-data-center-networking-with= -srv6 >> >> =EF=BB=BF-----Original Message----- >> From: spring on behalf of Alexandre Petrescu < >> alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> >> Date: Thursday, 19 December 2019 at 09:44 >> To: "spring@ietf.org" >> Subject: Re: [spring] 64-bit locators >> >> >> >> Le 19/12/2019 =C3=A0 00:13, Mark Smith a =C3=A9crit : >> [...] >> >> > VLSM [variable length subnet mask] is fundamentally hard, >> >> We need VLSM in other places too, such as in ULA prefixes fd and fc. >> >> I think it is indeed a difficult to grasp concept, but it is there >> for >> growth. >> >> Alex >> >> > >> > Regards, >> > Mark. >> > >> > __ >> > >> > In this case, we should probably change the document to reflec= t >> > implemented behavior.____ >> > >> > __ __ >> > >> > >> > >> Ron____ >> > >> > __ __ >> > >> > >> > Juniper Business Use Only >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > spring mailing list >> > spring@ietf.org >> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > spring mailing list >> > spring@ietf.org >> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> spring mailing list >> spring@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> spring mailing list >> spring@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring >> > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > --=20 Gyan S. Mishra IT Network Engineering & Technology Verizon Communications Inc. (VZ) 13101 Columbia Pike FDC1 3rd Floor Silver Spring, MD 20904 United States Phone: 301 502-1347 Email: gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies-consultant --000000000000c8dfcd059a15a6fc Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 4:17 PM Mark Smith <markzzzsmith@gmail.com> wrote:

Tying your IPv6 addressing plan to IPv4 addressing could end up impos= ing IPv4's addressing limitations on IPv6 - defeating the primary purpo= se of IPv6 - providing many more addresses than IPv4.


Thi= s is an Internet Draft, so this is the best time to make these sorts of cha= nges, as it is much easier now. When things become RFCs it becomes much har= der (and much, much harder when they become Internet Standards).
<= div dir=3D"auto">
If somebody has deployed Internet Draft lev= el technology, they have to accept the risk that what they've deployed = might not comply with the eventual RFC.

Regards,
Mark.
=C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0
=C2=A0[Gyan] For IPv6 addressing you can have any length prefix up to /1= 28. =C2=A0i am all for flexibility with vlsm even though may not be widely = used.

SRv6 SID encod= ing differs in that we had 3 fields {locator;function;arguments} that I thi= nk it makes sense to be fixed in the specification as Ron has brought up. = =C2=A0

From an operator = perspective for programmability as SRv6 deployments with or without central= ized controller, fixed length of the 3 fields makes sense so operators can = easily craft ACLs for deployments. =C2=A0

=
I think we could go crazy with the sizing but I think sin= ce 64 bit boundary exists today for slaac we could make the locator /64 as = well is fine.=C2=A0 We could split the other 2 fields evenly 32 bits each o= r make the function longer.=C2=A0 I think we=E2=80=99ll defined sizing is i= mportant so SID addressing plan is not chaotic.



Cheers,
Pablo.

[1] https://speakerdeck.com/line_developers/line-data-center-networking-with= -srv6

=EF=BB=BF-----Original Message-----
From: spring <spring-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf = of Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com= >
Date: Thursday, 19 December 2019 at 09:44
To: "spring@ietf.org" <spring@ietf.org= >
Subject: Re: [spring] 64-bit locators



=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Le 19/12/2019 =C3=A0 00:13, Mark Smith a =C3=A9crit :
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 [...]

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > VLSM [variable length subnet mask] is fundamentally hard= ,

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 We need VLSM in other places too, such as in ULA prefixes fd = and fc.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 I think it is indeed a difficult to grasp concept, but it is = there for
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 growth.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Alex

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > Regards,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > Mark.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0__
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0In this case, we should probably chan= ge the document to reflect
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0implemented behavior.____
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0__ __
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Ron____
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0__ __
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Juniper Business Use Only
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0_____________________________________= __________
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0spring mailing list
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0spring@ietf.org <mailt= o:spring@ietf.org>
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=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > _______________________________________________
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > spring mailing list
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > spring@ietf.org
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=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 _______________________________________________
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--
<= div dir=3D"ltr">

Gyan S. Mishra

IT Networ= k Engineering & Technology=C2=A0=

Verizon Communications=C2=A0Inc. (VZ)=

13101 Columbia Pike FDC1 3rd Floor

=

Silver Spring, MD 20904

United States<= span style=3D"color:rgb(80,0,80);background-image:initial;background-positi= on:initial;background-repeat:initial">

Phone:=C2=A0301 502-1347

Email:=C2=A0gyan.s.mishra@verizon.= com

www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies-co= nsultant


--000000000000c8dfcd059a15a6fc-- From nobody Thu Dec 19 14:12:46 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 143F4120180 for ; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 14:12:45 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.997 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.997 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LzyeS9KlNhkt for ; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 14:12:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-io1-xd35.google.com (mail-io1-xd35.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d35]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B2DB0120048 for ; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 14:12:41 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-io1-xd35.google.com with SMTP id b10so7382269iof.11 for ; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 14:12:41 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=eRHbo8r9V1R5eTVbEDgZZvfSTMAl1dMKw+wFIOhwrNQ=; b=NKTIOmJnKLRMVe1ZdXotfmId0iLezBwaDH/ZPxrVOJw7K3hg0WUp3m8191485R/bLY DIVFc3tCiOeDldRX3SmgksBr4R5R94cmBr0j+bap8R3vlRX7M/aJpuSrm0yxaYiw9Gwp txIMj1vETP781YrtoKtLvd3IF+aaeQNJDZLk5loYeiJn2Xw4FNSLGJqCpN2DFinZTpRz 7tyOBXoMFC/V5VnrqTE9LLReVzNdMQyVUDZBfGcwz5ILhKr5SpnlmsgkoMWIiBUNW/Cc 22srycooB1ZHhmnlSKAhpqfxBCQgQmL3Bv3wan6yMUHam0KyDNXY9KREA1SGikdXNZOW 0fAQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=eRHbo8r9V1R5eTVbEDgZZvfSTMAl1dMKw+wFIOhwrNQ=; b=unguLkpaF3LztqBdcgjFR8yrTCmK/oU72P5EFIR7tSuP/PdnR2EP3yoquPaP2tjhIQ snZ2a6Z8ysfNNUmFwb9iwwLWN4JSlbVqne24urcQgZrCC0QSZpAiXUQ7Hi+fQ/ODUqGt Gie3A18HP8d6TZYzpspi5nQHZt2AAx75guZ+bRGtg5r3KQzGXL0dmljZ0QHbkAubjCk1 H6S66gzxn7ZwHluwt6X1GOXIr2QunilskTg2bxPPxYtDOldGsQUvmPGXgC2sIxiGj8z1 sipTwQxmKtbGwej0OBghy8L3bScrMXus/3hQlA7VCsarbbvEcy8HwuuFT7nyO6oj0EIc 6ZBw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXK9iawGX/6owKlWNqSmeYtUYLmHT9KU5eNE16MVweLs8lNG2oj LeJiHVM7EenfBHPOlgQde3pk0hClqVQRR17VZRw= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyjv26jZS9sF2USITnWVwTlYiPML0GESE9I5TurPnY8DFLCV6BPQ+CU3KmjZa88GNeybP56tvHXduCHSKEoo/o= X-Received: by 2002:a02:6c41:: with SMTP id w62mr9516012jab.52.1576793560784; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 14:12:40 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <2CFF8BC8-7B75-476D-8EF1-3F35652D995A@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <2CFF8BC8-7B75-476D-8EF1-3F35652D995A@cisco.com> From: Gyan Mishra Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2019 17:12:12 -0500 Message-ID: To: "Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)" Cc: "Voyer, Daniel" , "Wang, Weibin (NSB - CN/Shanghai)" , "spring@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000001321b1059a15dca5" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] End.DT/End.DX SIDs (was Re: USD/USP question in draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-06.txt) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2019 22:12:45 -0000 --0000000000001321b1059a15dca5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 6:47 AM Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril) < pcamaril@cisco.com> wrote: > Gyan, > > > > The End.DX4/End.DX6 can be seen as an equivalent to the MPLS per-CE VPN > label. > > The End.DT4/End.DT6 can be seen as an equivalent to the MPLS per-VRF VPN > label. > > > > I believe that they cannot be combined. > I was proposing if possible to combine End.DX4 with End.DT4 and End.DX6 with End.DT6. Also noticed that dx4 and dx6 also have global table IPv4 IPv6 PE-CE scenario where there is not any vpn label signaled. The L3 vpn service sid is signaled only for tenant VRF vpnv4 vpnv6. Since global does not have vpn service label how would that work. I think you would have to create a separate End.x variant for global v4 v6. For the end.dt46 I am not sure why you would have a combined 46 sid as v4 and v6 would have their separate edge PE-CE peering and the other separate end. dx4 dx6 dt4 dt6 should accommodate. The only think I am guessing is a Recent update on BESS WG regarding sending IPv4 prefixes with IPv6 NLRI. In that scenario you would just have a PE-CE v6 peer only and that would fall under dx6 dt6. So even then I don=E2=80=99t think this dt64 is necess= ary. > > Cheers, > > Pablo. > > > > *From: *Gyan Mishra > *Date: *Sunday, 15 December 2019 at 08:29 > *To: *"Wang, Weibin (NSB - CN/Shanghai)" > *Cc: *"Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)" , "Voyer, Daniel" = < > daniel.voyer@bell.ca>, "spring@ietf.org" > *Subject: *Re: [spring] USD/USP question in > draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-06.txt > > > > > > Hi Wang & Pablo & Spring Authors, > > > > Had another question? > > > > These 4 sections. Trying to understand the difference between end.dx4 > end.dx6 and end.dt4 and end.dt6. They both seem very similar. One says > xconnect but other has v4 v6 lookup but for both you have to signal L3 v= pn > services sid. Not sure why both SIDs dx dt Sid function why they cannot = be > combined. > > > > I noticed this difference below that the dx4 dt4 account for the global > table scenario where the PE-CE is native IPv4 or IPv6. In the MPLS world > that use case is very different in that there is not any L3 vpn label and > do the label stack only had a single topmost label. Also in the MPLS > scenario with IPv6 global table PE-CE with a IPv4 core you require BGP -L= U > labeled unicast =E2=80=9Csend label=E2=80=9D to label all the IPv6 prefix= ed tunneled over > IPv4. Since that scenario is very different with global table does it > make sense to have a separate End.x variant for global table for both IPv= 4 > and IPv6. > > > > Note that an End.DT6 may be defined for the main IPv6 table in which > > case and End.DT6 supports the equivalent of an IPv6inIPv6 > > decapsulation (without VPN/tenant implication). > > > > 4.4 . End.DX6: Decapsulation and IPv6 cross-connect . .= . . . . 12 > > 4.5 . End.DX4: Decapsulation and IPv4 cross-connect . .= . . . . 13 > > 4.6 . End.DT6: Decapsulation and specific IPv6 table lo= okup . . 14 > > 4.7 . End.DT4: Decapsulation and specific IPv4 table lo= okup . . 15 > > > > Also I was trying to understand end.dt46. > > > > So if the PE-CE edge is dual stacked anhas both v4 and v6 you have a VRF = tenant v4 and v6 separate peers signaled via L3 vpn services TLV. So why d= o you need this end.dt46 sid > > > > 4.8 . End.DT46: Decapsulation and specific IP table lookup = . . 16 > > > > > > Kind Regards, > > > > Gyan > > > > On Sun, Dec 15, 2019 at 2:06 AM Gyan Mishra wrote= : > > Hi Wang > > > > I have a question regarding the PSP, USP and USD sections I pasted below. > > > > I just sent an email to Spring WG related to PSP and technically why that > is necessary as that is a legacy concept that has parity to MPLS but is n= ot > used today due to QOS issues. Please see that email related to that topi= c. > > > > > > In the PSP section can If we have to keep PSP can we add verbiage that > states that PSP removal of the SRH header occurs on the Penultimate egres= s > P node. > > > > In the USP section can we also add that all remaining SRH present in the > packet are popped on the egress PE ultimate node. > > > > In looking at these 3 SID functions the PSP and USP pop the EH and the US= P > removes the 6in6 encapsulation so that the other end.x dt4 dt6 etc can po= p > the services L3vpn headers. > > > > Why can=E2=80=99t the USD 6in6 encapsulation removal be done on with the = USP SID? > > > > Why does the USP and USD SID have to be separate? > > > 4.16.1 > . > PSP: Penultimate Segment Pop of the SRH > > > > > > The SRH processing of the End, End.X and End.T behaviors are > > modified: after the instruction "S14. Update IPv6 DA with Segment > > List[Segments Left]" is executed, the following instructions must be > > executed as well: > > > > S14.1. If (updated SL =3D=3D 0) { > > S14.2. Pop the SRH > > S14.3. } > > > > 4.16.2 > . > USP: Ultimate Segment Pop of the SRH > > > > > > The SRH processing of the End, End.X and End.T behaviors are > > modified: the instructions S02-S04 are substituted by the following > > ones: > > > > S02. If (Segments Left =3D=3D 0) { > > S03. Pop the SRH > > S04. } > > > > 4.16.3 > . > USD: Ultimate Segment Decapsulation > > > > > > The SRH processing of the End, End.X and End.T behaviors are > > modified: the instructions S02-S04 are substituted by the following > > ones: > > > > S02. If (Segments Left =3D=3D 0) { > > S03. Skip the SRH processing and proceed to the next header > > S04. } > > > > > > Further on, the Upper-layer header processing of the End, End.X and > > End.T behaviors are modified as follows: > > > > > > Kind regards, > > > > Gyan > > > > On Sat, Dec 14, 2019 at 9:08 PM Wang, Weibin (NSB - CN/Shanghai) < > weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com> wrote: > > Hi Pablo: > > > > After the 2 context assumption in previous version of this draft, =E2=80= =9Cwe > assume that there is no other extension header than the SRH.=E2=80=9D an= d =E2=80=9CWe > assume > > that the SRH may be present multiple times inside each packet=E2=80=9D= , are > removed in this last draft, I feel a bit confusion on USD SID, as well as > combination of USD & USP. > > > > First, within the content of this last draft, the word =E2=80=9CFurther o= n=E2=80=9D marked > red in the following pseudocode in section =E2=80=9C4.16.3=E2=80=9D is ha= rd to understand > if the packet being processed has other EH embed between SRH and > Upper-layer header, such as AH or other EH, then the processing control o= f > this packet will be passed to normal IPv6 module from current SRH > processing module in SR-Node, so my question is : Can its control after > completing AH processing (for example) be back to SRH module (or call it > pseudocode module) to proceed the next header like =E2=80=9Cupper-lay hea= der type > =3D=3D41 or 4=E2=80=9D. > > Or, if not, Did you created a new EH processing protocol stack instance i= n > parallel to normal IPv6 module within the scope of SRH processing in > SR-node. > > > > 4.16.3. USD: Ultimate Segment Decapsulation > > > > S02. If (Segments Left =3D=3D 0) { > > S03. Skip the SRH processing and proceed to the next header > > S04. } > > > > Further on, the Upper-layer header processing of the End, End.X and > > End.T behaviors are modified as follows: > > > > End: > > S01. If (Upper-layer Header type =3D=3D 41 || 4) { > > S02. Remove the outer IPv6 Header with all its extension headers > > S03. Submit the packet to the egress IP FIB lookup and > > transmission to the new destination > > S04. } Else { > > S05. Send an ICMP Parameter Problem message to the Source Address > > Code 4 (SR Upper-layer Header Error), > > Pointer set to the offset of the upper-layer header. > > Interrupt packet processing and discard the packet. > > > > S06. } > > > > From my understanding, the all processing action about specific SID must > be completed successively. That is to say, upon USD, the upper-layer head= er > (type 41 or 4) must be followed the SRH header being processed currently, > or second SRH following the same rule (of course, the draft not consideri= ng > 2 or more successive SRHs). > > > > Second, the mixed SIDs function with combination of USD and USP (even > PSP&USD&USP), I think, it is easy to understand when the two assumption > above exist, but now I think it isn=E2=80=99t clear if you only provide t= he > following sentence in this draft, i.e. =E2=80=9Cif =E2=80=A6 else=E2=80= =A6=E2=80=9D statement: > > =E2=80=9CAn implementation that supports the USD flavor in conjunction wi= th > > the USP flavor MAY optimize the packet processing by first looking > > whether the conditions for the USD flavor are met, in which case it > > can proceed with USD processing else do USP processing.=E2=80=9D > > This confusion is also described in my another mail. Of course, if the > first question is addressed then this confusion does not exist. > > > > By the way, is it really no different in text description before and afte= r > the two context assumption above removed? > > > > > > *Cheers !* > > > > *WANG Weibin* > > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > > -- > > Gyan S. Mishra > > IT Network Engineering & Technology > > Verizon Communications Inc. (VZ) > > 13101 Columbia Pike > > FDC1 3rd Floor > > Silver Spring, MD 20904 > > United States > > Phone: 301 502-1347 > > Email: gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com > > www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies-consultant > > > > -- > > Gyan S. Mishra > > IT Network Engineering & Technology > > Verizon Communications Inc. (VZ) > > 13101 Columbia Pike > > FDC1 3rd Floor > > Silver Spring, MD 20904 > > United States > > Phone: 301 502-1347 > > Email: gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com > > www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies-consultant > > > --=20 Gyan S. Mishra IT Network Engineering & Technology Verizon Communications Inc. (VZ) 13101 Columbia Pike FDC1 3rd Floor Silver Spring, MD 20904 United States Phone: 301 502-1347 Email: gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies-consultant --0000000000001321b1059a15dca5 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 6:47 AM Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril) = <pcamaril@cisco.com> wrote:=

Gyan,

=C2=A0

The End.DX4/End.DX6 can be seen= as an equivalent to the MPLS per-CE VPN label.

The End.DT4/End.DT6 can be seen= as an equivalent to the MPLS per-VRF VPN label.

=C2=A0

I believe that they cannot be c= ombined.


=C2=A0 =C2=A0I was proposing if possible to combine End.DX4 = with End.DT4 and End.DX6 with End.DT6.


Also noticed that dx4 and dx6 al= so have global table IPv4 IPv6 PE-CE scenario where there is not any vpn la= bel signaled.=C2=A0 The L3 vpn service sid is signaled only for tenant VRF = vpnv4 vpnv6.=C2=A0 Since global does not have vpn service label how would t= hat work.

I think you wo= uld have to create a separate End.x variant for global v4 v6.

For the end.dt46 =C2=A0I am not sure = why you would have a combined 46 sid as v4 and v6 would have their separate= edge PE-CE peering and the other separate end. dx4 dx6 dt4 dt6 should acco= mmodate.=C2=A0 The only think I am guessing is a Recent update on BESS WG r= egarding sending IPv4 prefixes with IPv6 NLRI.=C2=A0 In that scenario you w= ould just have a PE-CE v6 peer only and that would fall under dx6 dt6.=C2= =A0 So even then I don=E2=80=99t think this dt64 is necessary.

=C2=A0

Cheers,

Pablo.

=C2=A0

From: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.c= om>
Date: Sunday, 15 December 2019 at 08:29
To: "Wang, Weibin (NSB - CN/Shanghai)" <weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.c= om>
Cc: "Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)" <pcamaril@cisco.com>, "Voyer,= Daniel" <daniel.voyer@bell.ca>, "spring@ietf.org" <spring@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [spring] USD/USP question in draft-ietf-spring-srv6-net= work-programming-06.txt

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Hi Wang & Pablo &am= p; Spring Authors,

=C2=A0

Had another question?

=C2=A0

These 4 sections.=C2=A0= Trying to understand the difference between end.dx4 end.dx6 and end.dt4 an= d end.dt6.=C2=A0 They both seem very similar.=C2=A0 One says xconnect but o= ther has v4 v6 lookup but for both you have to signal =C2=A0L3 vpn services sid.=C2=A0 Not sure why both SIDs dx dt Sid function= why they cannot be combined.

=C2=A0

I noticed this differen= ce below that the dx4 dt4 account for the global table scenario where the P= E-CE is native IPv4 or IPv6.=C2=A0 In the MPLS world that use case is very = different in that there is not any L3 vpn label and do the label stack only had a single topmost label.=C2=A0 Also i= n the MPLS scenario with IPv6 global table PE-CE with a IPv4 core you requi= re BGP -LU labeled unicast =E2=80=9Csend label=E2=80=9D to label all the IP= v6 prefixed tunneled over IPv4. =C2=A0 Since that scenario is very different with global table does it make sense to have a separate = End.x variant for global table for both IPv4 and IPv6.

=C2=A0 

=C2=A0=C2=A0 Note that an End.DT6 may be defined for the main IPv=
6 table in which
=C2=A0=
=C2=A0 case and End.DT6 supports the equivalent of an IPv6inIPv6<=
/u>
=C2=A0=
=C2=A0 decapsulation (without VPN/tenant implication).=

=C2=A0
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 4.4.=C2=A0 End.DX6: Decapsulation and IPv6 cross-connect . . . . =
. .=C2=A0 12
=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 4.5.=
=C2=A0 End.DX4: Decapsulation and IPv4 cross-connect . . . . . .=C2=A0 13=

=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 4.6.=
=C2=A0 End.DT6: Decapsulation and specific IPv6 table lookup . .=C2=A0 14=

=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 4.7.=
=C2=A0 End.DT4: Decapsulation and specific IPv4 table lookup . .=C2=A0 15=

=C2=A0
Also I was trying to understand end.dt46.

=C2=A0


So if the PE-CE edge is dual stacked anhas both v4 and v6 you hav=
e a VRF tenant v4 and v6 separate peers signaled via L3 vpn services TLV.=
=C2=A0 So why do you need this end.dt46 sid


=C2=A0


4.8=
.=C2=A0 End.DT46: Decapsulation and specific IP table lookup=C2=A0 . .=C2=
=A0 16


=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 


=C2=A0


Kind Regards,


=C2=A0


Gyan


=C2=A0

On Sun, Dec 15, 2019 at= 2:06 AM Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Wang

=C2=A0

I have a question regarding the PSP, USP and USD sections I pasted b= elow.

=C2=A0

I just sent an email to Spring WG related to PSP and technically why= that is necessary as that is a legacy concept that has parity to MPLS but = is not used today due to QOS issues.=C2=A0 Please see that email related to that topic.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

In the PSP section can If we have to keep PSP can we add verbiage th= at states that PSP removal of the SRH header occurs on the Penultimate egre= ss P node.

=C2=A0

In the USP section can we also add that all remaining SRH present in= the packet are popped on the egress PE ultimate node.=

=C2=A0

In looking at these 3 SID functions the PSP and USP pop the EH and t= he USP removes the 6in6 encapsulation so that the other end.x dt4 dt6 etc c= an pop the services L3vpn headers.

=C2=A0

Why can=E2=80=99t the USD 6in6 encapsulation removal be done on with= the USP SID?

=C2=A0

Why does the USP and USD SID have to be separate?

=C2=A0

4.16.1.=C2=A0 PSP: Penultimate Segment Pop of the SRH

=C2=
=A0
=C2=
=A0
=C2=A0=C2=
=A0 The SRH processing of the End, End.X and End.T behaviors are<=
/u>
=C2=A0=C2=
=A0 modified: after the instruction "S14.=C2=A0 Update IPv6 DA with Se=
gment
=C2=A0=C2=
=A0 List[Segments Left]" is executed, the following instructions must =
be
=C2=A0=C2=
=A0 executed as well:
=C2=
=A0
=C2=A0=C2=
=A0 S14.1.=C2=A0=C2=A0 If (updated SL =3D=3D 0) {

=C2=A0=C2=
=A0 S14.2.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Pop the SRH

=C2=A0=C2=
=A0 S14.3.=C2=A0=C2=A0 }


=C2=
=A0


4.16.2.=C2=A0
 USP: Ultimate Segment Pop of the SRH


=C2=
=A0


=C2=
=A0


=C2=A0=C2=
=A0 The SRH processing of the End, End.X and End.T behaviors are<=
/u>


=C2=A0=C2=
=A0 modified: the instructions S02-S04 are substituted by the following<=
/u>


=C2=A0=C2=
=A0 ones:


=C2=
=A0


=C2=A0=C2=
=A0 S02.=C2=A0=C2=A0 If (Segments Left =3D=3D 0) {

=C2=A0=C2=
=A0 S03.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Pop the SRH


=C2=A0=C2=
=A0 S04.=C2=A0=C2=A0 }


=C2=
=A0




4.16.3.=C2=A0
 USD: Ultimate Segment Decapsulation




=C2=
=A0


=C2=
=A0


=C2=A0=C2=
=A0 The SRH processing of the End, End.X and End.T behaviors are<=
/u>


=C2=A0=C2=
=A0 modified: the instructions S02-S04 are substituted by the following<=
/u>


=C2=A0=C2=
=A0 ones:


=C2=
=A0


=C2=A0=C2=
=A0 S02.=C2=A0=C2=A0 If (Segments Left =3D=3D 0) {

=C2=A0=C2=
=A0 S03.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Skip the SRH processing and proceed =
to the next header


=C2=A0=C2=
=A0 S04.=C2=A0=C2=A0 }


=C2=
=A0


=C2=
=A0


=C2=A0=C2=
=A0 Further on, the Upper-layer header processing of the End, End.X and<=
/u>


=C2=A0=C2=
=A0 End.T behaviors are modified as follows:


=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Kind regards,


=C2=A0

Gyan

=C2=A0

On Sat, Dec 14, 2019 at= 9:08 PM Wang, Weibin (NSB - CN/Shanghai) <weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com> wro= te:

Hi Pablo:

=C2=A0

After the 2 context assumption in previous version of = this draft, =C2=A0=E2=80=9Cw= e assume that there is no other extension header than the SRH.=E2=80=9D =C2=A0and =C2=A0=E2=80=9CWe= assume

=C2=A0=C2=A0 that the SRH may be pr= esent multiple times inside each packet=E2=80= =9D, are removed in this last draft, I feel a bit confusion on USD SID, as well as combination of USD & USP.

=C2=A0

First, within the content of this last draft, the word= =E2=80=9CFurther on=E2=80=9D marked red in the following pseudocode in sec= tion =E2=80=9C4.16.3=E2=80=9D is hard to understand if the packet being pro= cessed has other EH embed between SRH and Upper-layer header, such as AH or other EH, then the processing control of this packet will be pass= ed to normal IPv6 module from current SRH processing module in SR-Node, so = my question is : Can its control after completing AH processing (for exampl= e) =C2=A0be back to SRH module (or call it pseudocode module) to proceed the next header like =E2=80=9Cupper-lay h= eader type =3D=3D41 or 4=E2=80=9D.

Or, if not, Did you created a new EH processing protoc= ol stack instance in parallel to normal IPv6 module within the scope of SRH= processing in SR-node.

=C2=A0

4.16.3.=C2=A0 USD: Ultimate Segment= Decapsulation

=C2=A0<= u>

S02.=C2=A0=C2=A0 If (Segments Left = =3D=3D 0) {

=C2=A0=C2=A0 S03.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0 Skip the SRH processing and proceed to the next header<= span lang=3D"EN-US">

=C2=A0=C2=A0 S04.=C2=A0=C2=A0 }

=C2=A0

Further on, the Upper-layer header proce= ssing of the End, End.X and

=C2=A0=C2=A0 End.T behaviors are mo= dified as follows:

=C2=A0<= u>

=C2=A0=C2=A0 End:

=C2=A0=C2=A0 S01. If (Upper-layer H= eader type =3D=3D 41 || 4) {

=C2=A0=C2=A0 S02.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= Remove the outer IPv6 Header with all its extension headers

=C2=A0=C2=A0 S03.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= Submit the packet to the egress IP FIB lookup and

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 transmission to the new desti= nation

=C2=A0=C2=A0 S04. } Else {

=C2=A0=C2=A0 S05.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= Send an ICMP Parameter Problem message to the Source Address

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Code 4 (SR Upper-layer Header= Error),

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Pointer set to the offset of = the upper-layer header.

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Interrupt packet processing a= nd discard the packet.

=C2=A0<= u>

=C2=A0=C2=A0 S06. }

=C2=A0

From my understanding, the all processing action about= specific SID must be completed successively. That is to say, upon USD, the= upper-layer header (type 41 or 4) must be followed the SRH header being pr= ocessed currently, or second SRH following the same rule (of course, the draft not considering 2 or more successive S= RHs).

=C2=A0

Second, the mixed SIDs function with combination of US= D and USP (even PSP&USD&USP), I think, it is easy to understand whe= n the two assumption above exist, but now I think it isn=E2=80=99t clear if= you only provide the following sentence in this draft, i.e. =C2=A0=E2=80=9Cif =E2=80=A6 else=E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D statement:<= u>

=E2=80=9C

=C2=A0=C2=A0 the USP flavor MAY opt= imize the packet processing by first looking=

=C2=A0=C2=A0 whether the conditions= for the USD flavor are met, in which case it

=C2=A0=C2=A0 can proceed with USD p= rocessing else do USP processing.=E2=80=9D

This confusion is also described in my another mail. O= f course, if the first question is addressed then this confusion does not e= xist.

=C2=A0

By the way, is it really no different in text descript= ion before and after the two context assumption above removed?

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Cheers !

=C2=A0<= /span>

WANG Weibin=

_______________________= ________________________
spring mailing list
spring@ietf.org = https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring

--

Gyan S. Mishra

IT Network Engineering & Technology=C2=A0=

Verizon Communications=C2=A0Inc. (VZ)<= /p>

13101 Columbia Pike = FDC1 3rd Floor

Silver Spring, MD 20904

United States

Phone:=C2=A0301 502-1347=

Email:=C2=A0gyan.s.m= ishra@verizon.com

www.linkedin.com/in/networking-tech= nologies-consultant

=C2=A0

--

Gyan S. Mishra

IT Network Engineering & Technology=C2=A0=

Verizon Communications=C2=A0Inc. (VZ)<= /p>

13101 Columbia Pike = FDC1 3rd Floor

Silver Spring, MD 20904

United States

Phone:=C2=A0301 502-1347=

Email:=C2=A0gyan.s.m= ishra@verizon.com

www.linkedin.com/in/networking-tech= nologies-consultant

=C2=A0

--
<= div dir=3D"ltr">

Gyan S. Mishra

IT Networ= k Engineering & Technology=C2=A0=

Verizon Communications=C2=A0Inc. (VZ)=

13101 Columbia Pike FDC1 3rd Floor

=

Silver Spring, MD 20904

United States<= span style=3D"color:rgb(80,0,80);background-image:initial;background-positi= on:initial;background-repeat:initial">

Phone:=C2=A0301 502-1347

Email:=C2=A0gyan.s.mishra@verizon.= com

www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies-co= nsultant


--0000000000001321b1059a15dca5-- From nobody Thu Dec 19 14:51:25 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F719120048 for ; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 14:51:24 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.997 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.997 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wHpq1ukJa5XF for ; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 14:51:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-io1-xd2b.google.com (mail-io1-xd2b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d2b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 667E212001A for ; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 14:51:20 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-io1-xd2b.google.com with SMTP id c16so3918914ioo.8 for ; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 14:51:20 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=jrhJcz5zkRcFzkqugA0Cg563GYPOrd15iWVS2yrumUM=; b=nJunpxwqFyoBFBM9m2EARk/3JLS4LaXFGmCFeVJJmOCG91yXnMdgkpD2G33axreq5P VZ7ldzEZXw0xWfGgos1ciJ8lDhGM6+KfbRjaGRfYDbSfw2Gx4mfd8sIkZIWJCxVoSedS HqutPWL1tAi7DXed8Z8W7X6fRKk5+ZxfD+aMbu7993bKymi06ML4WHnlMfZTlMCU+n6h RCb5L2ckdrDvyO5NprhUXESyxmzjtbdCx8SCctF3MT756EiovJ+c3mmaUewmmla3sjwW /P5A9dw1LOQwXbYU5lwdQ3M+lBcyPT0bB+Fu1mI/b1ybaAjipzvNQAnRCeWLgH+aSt3Q QWTA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=jrhJcz5zkRcFzkqugA0Cg563GYPOrd15iWVS2yrumUM=; b=aHPjNZ+ECcFlBhX8vj7JySU9vNSWy1zKKUZ/jrCOH5zmtoR/lsFfUGtdNM1XKtwk7v 8j7qTlumtY4VpHUg5wR+oc+KhYhnA7qDIdvFi+w6+zxDgV17DBFI11/c4E4xNZGyikhU x2HMNYt6TwXwWhNZSahSxCjeFzzuLnN7Iy2yw1kJwyTbNuPVq4uBX7UjdDNYKspFmBe6 NOIL2DZYF0eoNGwGl05riXW60pVkNFOwXTYuUNYLe79EIsHpZdC6t/wu8vdCkS2dzaUE 8jJFDdSA0ONm6XP/1GvrBSH0QZOLHwwi1Qyyqigh8YtEa4IQNA6ofz78XAowY/2mYj0L z4XQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAU0gjvhPkQXBEHmxBqfZf/DTooMpSXCFu03JhHpKK3FBYWY3zzO KUk03AKOVWaRgAo7gbTyu12y8R+Tc9rmKIGeArk= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyYdfqs5B1bEofxGjmvOdbLWRX+C6ilyrmlsuTvquD6DcFnXirvHYOxa8hQ7GUm4RNYeyVrGL8pBWfF2+q211Q= X-Received: by 2002:a02:13c2:: with SMTP id 185mr3737269jaz.0.1576795879429; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 14:51:19 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <2CFF8BC8-7B75-476D-8EF1-3F35652D995A@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: From: Gyan Mishra Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2019 17:51:08 -0500 Message-ID: To: Ron Bonica Cc: "Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)" , "Voyer, Daniel" , "Wang, Weibin (NSB - CN/Shanghai)" , "spring@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000046e6cf059a1666d8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] End.DT/End.DX SIDs (was Re: USD/USP question in draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-06.txt) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2019 22:51:24 -0000 --00000000000046e6cf059a1666d8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 11:28 AM Ron Bonica wrote: > Pablo, > > > > In L3VPN, all of these are combined into a single 20-bit MPLS label. Why > can SRv6 not do likewise? > > > > Ron > > [Gyan] Very good point. All of those are related to BOS=3D1 vpn service > label. This is covered with BESS in detail in the L3 vpn service SID. > https://tools.ietf.org/pdf/draft-ietf-bess-srv6-services-01.pdf > SRv6 programming is related to the end.x cross connects within the SR > domain similar to in MPLS terms =E2=80=9Ctopmost label=E2=80=9D. So the = external to SRv6 > domain, PE-CE M-BGP BGP services is really separate covered by the draft > above. > > > Juniper Business Use Only > > *From:* spring *On Behalf Of *Pablo Camarillo > (pcamaril) > *Sent:* Thursday, December 19, 2019 6:47 AM > *To:* Wang, Weibin (NSB - CN/Shanghai) ; > Gyan Mishra > *Cc:* spring@ietf.org; Voyer, Daniel > *Subject:* [spring] End.DT/End.DX SIDs (was Re: USD/USP question in > draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-06.txt) > > > > Gyan, > > > > The End.DX4/End.DX6 can be seen as an equivalent to the MPLS per-CE VPN > label. > > The End.DT4/End.DT6 can be seen as an equivalent to the MPLS per-VRF VPN > label. > > > > I believe that they cannot be combined. > > > > Cheers, > > Pablo. > > > > *From: *Gyan Mishra > *Date: *Sunday, 15 December 2019 at 08:29 > *To: *"Wang, Weibin (NSB - CN/Shanghai)" > *Cc: *"Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)" , "Voyer, Daniel" = < > daniel.voyer@bell.ca>, "spring@ietf.org" > *Subject: *Re: [spring] USD/USP question in > draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-06.txt > > > > > > Hi Wang & Pablo & Spring Authors, > > > > Had another question? > > > > These 4 sections. Trying to understand the difference between end.dx4 > end.dx6 and end.dt4 and end.dt6. They both seem very similar. One says > xconnect but other has v4 v6 lookup but for both you have to signal L3 v= pn > services sid. Not sure why both SIDs dx dt Sid function why they cannot = be > combined. > > > > I noticed this difference below that the dx4 dt4 account for the global > table scenario where the PE-CE is native IPv4 or IPv6. In the MPLS world > that use case is very different in that there is not any L3 vpn label and > do the label stack only had a single topmost label. Also in the MPLS > scenario with IPv6 global table PE-CE with a IPv4 core you require BGP -L= U > labeled unicast =E2=80=9Csend label=E2=80=9D to label all the IPv6 prefix= ed tunneled over > IPv4. Since that scenario is very different with global table does it > make sense to have a separate End.x variant for global table for both IPv= 4 > and IPv6. > > > > Note that an End.DT6 may be defined for the main IPv6 table in which > > case and End.DT6 supports the equivalent of an IPv6inIPv6 > > decapsulation (without VPN/tenant implication). > > > > 4.4 . End.DX6: Deca= psulation and IPv6 cross-connect . . . . . . 12 > > 4.5 . End.DX4: Deca= psulation and IPv4 cross-connect . . . . . . 13 > > 4.6 . End.DT6: Deca= psulation and specific IPv6 table lookup . . 14 > > 4.7 . End.DT4: Deca= psulation and specific IPv4 table lookup . . 15 > > > > Also I was trying to understand end.dt46. > > > > So if the PE-CE edge is dual stacked anhas both v4 and v6 you have a VRF = tenant v4 and v6 separate peers signaled via L3 vpn services TLV. So why d= o you need this end.dt46 sid > > > > 4.8 . End.DT46: Decapsul= ation and specific IP table lookup . . 16 > > > > > > Kind Regards, > > > > Gyan > > > > On Sun, Dec 15, 2019 at 2:06 AM Gyan Mishra wrote= : > > Hi Wang > > > > I have a question regarding the PSP, USP and USD sections I pasted below. > > > > I just sent an email to Spring WG related to PSP and technically why that > is necessary as that is a legacy concept that has parity to MPLS but is n= ot > used today due to QOS issues. Please see that email related to that topi= c. > > > > > > In the PSP section can If we have to keep PSP can we add verbiage that > states that PSP removal of the SRH header occurs on the Penultimate egres= s > P node. > > > > In the USP section can we also add that all remaining SRH present in the > packet are popped on the egress PE ultimate node. > > > > In looking at these 3 SID functions the PSP and USP pop the EH and the US= P > removes the 6in6 encapsulation so that the other end.x dt4 dt6 etc can po= p > the services L3vpn headers. > > > > Why can=E2=80=99t the USD 6in6 encapsulation removal be done on with the = USP SID? > > > > Why does the USP and USD SID have to be separate? > > > 4.16.1 > . > PSP: Penultimate Segment Pop of the SRH > > > > > > The SRH processing of the End, End.X and End.T behaviors are > > modified: after the instruction "S14. Update IPv6 DA with Segment > > List[Segments Left]" is executed, the following instructions must be > > executed as well: > > > > S14.1. If (updated SL =3D=3D 0) { > > S14.2. Pop the SRH > > S14.3. } > > > > 4.16.2 > . > USP: Ultimate Segment Pop of the SRH > > > > > > The SRH processing of the End, End.X and End.T behaviors are > > modified: the instructions S02-S04 are substituted by the following > > ones: > > > > S02. If (Segments Left =3D=3D 0) { > > S03. Pop the SRH > > S04. } > > > > 4.16.3 > . > USD: Ultimate Segment Decapsulation > > > > > > The SRH processing of the End, End.X and End.T behaviors are > > modified: the instructions S02-S04 are substituted by the following > > ones: > > > > S02. If (Segments Left =3D=3D 0) { > > S03. Skip the SRH processing and proceed to the next header > > S04. } > > > > > > Further on, the Upper-layer header processing of the End, End.X and > > End.T behaviors are modified as follows: > > > > > > Kind regards, > > > > Gyan > > > > On Sat, Dec 14, 2019 at 9:08 PM Wang, Weibin (NSB - CN/Shanghai) < > weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com> wrote: > > Hi Pablo: > > > > After the 2 context assumption in previous version of this draft, =E2=80= =9Cwe > assume that there is no other extension header than the SRH.=E2=80=9D an= d =E2=80=9CWe > assume > > that the SRH may be present multiple times inside each packet=E2=80=9D= , are > removed in this last draft, I feel a bit confusion on USD SID, as well as > combination of USD & USP. > > > > First, within the content of this last draft, the word =E2=80=9CFurther o= n=E2=80=9D marked > red in the following pseudocode in section =E2=80=9C4.16.3=E2=80=9D is ha= rd to understand > if the packet being processed has other EH embed between SRH and > Upper-layer header, such as AH or other EH, then the processing control o= f > this packet will be passed to normal IPv6 module from current SRH > processing module in SR-Node, so my question is : Can its control after > completing AH processing (for example) be back to SRH module (or call it > pseudocode module) to proceed the next header like =E2=80=9Cupper-lay hea= der type > =3D=3D41 or 4=E2=80=9D. > > Or, if not, Did you created a new EH processing protocol stack instance i= n > parallel to normal IPv6 module within the scope of SRH processing in > SR-node. > > > > 4.16.3. USD: Ultimate Segment Decapsulation > > > > S02. If (Segments Left =3D=3D 0) { > > S03. Skip the SRH processing and proceed to the next header > > S04. } > > > > Further on, the Upper-layer header processing of the End, End.X and > > End.T behaviors are modified as follows: > > > > End: > > S01. If (Upper-layer Header type =3D=3D 41 || 4) { > > S02. Remove the outer IPv6 Header with all its extension headers > > S03. Submit the packet to the egress IP FIB lookup and > > transmission to the new destination > > S04. } Else { > > S05. Send an ICMP Parameter Problem message to the Source Address > > Code 4 (SR Upper-layer Header Error), > > Pointer set to the offset of the upper-layer header. > > Interrupt packet processing and discard the packet. > > > > S06. } > > > > From my understanding, the all processing action about specific SID must > be completed successively. That is to say, upon USD, the upper-layer head= er > (type 41 or 4) must be followed the SRH header being processed currently, > or second SRH following the same rule (of course, the draft not consideri= ng > 2 or more successive SRHs). > > > > Second, the mixed SIDs function with combination of USD and USP (even > PSP&USD&USP), I think, it is easy to understand when the two assumption > above exist, but now I think it isn=E2=80=99t clear if you only provide t= he > following sentence in this draft, i.e. =E2=80=9Cif =E2=80=A6 else=E2=80= =A6=E2=80=9D statement: > > =E2=80=9CAn implementation that supports the USD flavor in conjunction wi= th > > the USP flavor MAY optimize the packet processing by first looking > > whether the conditions for the USD flavor are met, in which case it > > can proceed with USD processing else do USP processing.=E2=80=9D > > This confusion is also described in my another mail. Of course, if the > first question is addressed then this confusion does not exist. > > > > By the way, is it really no different in text description before and afte= r > the two context assumption above removed? > > > > > > *Cheers !* > > > > *WANG Weibin* > > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > > > -- > > Gyan S. Mishra > > IT Network Engineering & Technology > > Verizon Communications Inc. (VZ) > > 13101 Columbia Pike > > FDC1 3rd Floor > > Silver Spring, MD 20904 > > United States > > Phone: 301 502-1347 > > Email: gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com > > www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies-consultant > > > > > -- > > Gyan S. Mishra > > IT Network Engineering & Technology > > Verizon Communications Inc. (VZ) > > 13101 Columbia Pike > > FDC1 3rd Floor > > Silver Spring, MD 20904 > > United States > > Phone: 301 502-1347 > > Email: gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com > > www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies-consultant > > > > --=20 Gyan S. Mishra IT Network Engineering & Technology Verizon Communications Inc. (VZ) 13101 Columbia Pike FDC1 3rd Floor Silver Spring, MD 20904 United States Phone: 301 502-1347 Email: gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies-consultant --00000000000046e6cf059a1666d8 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 11:28 AM Ron Bonica <rbonica@juniper.net> wrote:

Pablo,

=C2=A0

In L3VPN, all of these are combined into a single 20= -bit MPLS label. Why can SRv6 not do likewise?

=C2=A0

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Ron<= u>

=C2=A0[Gyan] Very good point.=C2=A0 All of th= ose are related to BOS=3D1 vpn service label.=C2=A0 This is covered with BE= SS in detail in the L3 vpn service SID. =C2=A0

=

https://tools.ietf.org/pdf/draft-ietf-bess-srv6-services-01.pdf=C2= =A0

SRv6 programming is related to the end.x cross con= nects within the SR domain similar to in MPLS terms =E2=80=9Ctopmost label= =E2=80=9D.=C2=A0 So the external to SRv6 domain, =C2=A0PE-CE M-BGP BGP serv= ices is really separate covered by the draft above.


<= /div>

=C2=A0

Juniper Business Use Only

From: spring <spring-bounces@ietf.org> On Beha= lf Of Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)
Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2019 6:47 AM
To: Wang, Weibin (NSB - CN/Shanghai) <weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com>; = Gyan Mishra <= hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
Cc: spring@ietf= .org; Voyer, Daniel <daniel.voyer@bell.ca>
Subject: [spring] End.DT/End.DX SIDs (was Re: USD/USP question in dr= aft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-06.txt)

=C2=A0

Gyan,

=C2=A0

The End.DX4/End.DX6 can be seen= as an equivalent to the MPLS per-CE VPN label.

The End.DT4/End.DT6 can be seen= as an equivalent to the MPLS per-VRF VPN label.

=C2=A0

I believe that they cannot be c= ombined.

=C2=A0

Cheers,

Pablo.

=C2=A0

From: Gyan Mi= shra <hayabus= agsm@gmail.com>
Date: Sunday, 15 December 2019 at 08:29
To: "Wang, Weibin (NSB - CN/Shanghai)" <weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.c= om>
Cc: "Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)" <pcamaril@cisco.com>, "Voyer,= Daniel" <daniel.voyer@bell.ca>, "spring@ietf.org" <spring@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [spring] USD/USP question in draft-ietf-spring-srv6-net= work-programming-06.txt

= =C2=A0

= =C2=A0

Hi Wang= & Pablo & Spring Authors,

= =C2=A0

Had ano= ther question?

= =C2=A0

These 4= sections.=C2=A0 Trying to understand the difference between end.dx4 end.dx= 6 and end.dt4 and end.dt6.=C2=A0 They both seem very similar.=C2=A0 One say= s xconnect but other has v4 v6 lookup but for both you have to signal =C2=A0L3 vpn services sid.=C2=A0 Not sure why both SIDs dx = dt Sid function why they cannot be combined.

= =C2=A0

I notic= ed this difference below that the dx4 dt4 account for the global table scen= ario where the PE-CE is native IPv4 or IPv6.=C2=A0 In the MPLS world that u= se case is very different in that there is not any L3 vpn label and do the label stack only had a single topmost labe= l.=C2=A0 Also in the MPLS scenario with IPv6 global table PE-CE with a IPv4= core you require BGP -LU labeled unicast =E2=80=9Csend label=E2=80=9D to l= abel all the IPv6 prefixed tunneled over IPv4. =C2=A0 Since that scenario is very different with global table does it make sense to ha= ve a separate End.x variant for global table for both IPv4 and IPv6.=

= =C2=A0

=C2=A0=C2=A0 Note that an End.DT6 may be defined for =
the main IPv6 table in which
=C2=A0=C2=A0 case and End.DT6 supports the equivalent of an IPv6inIPv6=

=C2=A0=C2=A0 decapsulation (without VPN/tenant implication).
=C2=A0
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <=
span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">4.4.=C2=A0 End.DX6: Decapsulation and IPv6 cross-connec=
t . . . . . .=C2=A0 12
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 4.5.=C2=A0 End.DX4: Decapsulation and IPv4 cross-connect . . . . . .=C2=A0 =
13
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 4.6.=C2=A0 End.DT6: Decapsulation and specific IPv6 table lookup . .=C2=A0 =
14
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 4.7.=C2=A0 End.DT4: Decapsulation and specific IPv4 table lookup . .=C2=A0 =
15
=C2=A0
Also I was trying to understand end.dt46.
=C2=A0
So if the PE-CE edge is dual stacked anhas both v4 an=
d v6 you have a VRF tenant v4 and v6 separate peers signaled via L3 vpn ser=
vices TLV.=C2=A0 So why do you need this end.dt46 sid<=
/pre>

=C2=A0


4.8=
.=C2=
=A0 End.DT46: Decapsulation and specific IP table lookup=C2=A0 . .=C2=A0 16


=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 


=C2=A0


Kind Regards,


=C2=A0


Gyan


=C2=A0

On Sun,= Dec 15, 2019 at 2:06 AM Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com> wrote:=

Hi Wang

=C2=A0

I have a question regarding the PSP, USP and USD section= s I pasted below.

=C2=A0

I just sent an email to Spring WG related to PSP and tec= hnically why that is necessary as that is a legacy concept that has parity = to MPLS but is not used today due to QOS issues.=C2=A0 Please see that email related to that topic.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

In the PSP section can If we have to keep PSP can we add= verbiage that states that PSP removal of the SRH header occurs on the Penu= ltimate egress P node.

=C2=A0

In the USP section can we also add that all remaining SR= H present in the packet are popped on the egress PE ultimate node.

=C2=A0

In looking at these 3 SID functions the PSP and USP pop = the EH and the USP removes the 6in6 encapsulation so that the other end.x d= t4 dt6 etc can pop the services L3vpn headers.

=C2=A0

Why can=E2=80=99t the USD 6in6 encapsulation removal be = done on with the USP SID?

=C2=A0

Why does the USP and USD SID have to be separate?=

=C2=A0

4.16.= 1.=C2=A0 PSP: Penultimate Segment Pop of the SRH

<=
u>=C2=A0
<=
u>=C2=A0
=
=C2=A0=C2=A0 The SRH processing of the End, End.X and End.T behaviors are
=
=C2=A0=C2=A0 modified: after the instruction "S14.=C2=A0 Update IPv6 D=
A with Segment
=
=C2=A0=C2=A0 List[Segments Left]" is executed, the following instructi=
ons must be
=
=C2=A0=C2=A0 executed as well:
<=
u>=C2=A0
=
=C2=A0=C2=A0 S14.1.=C2=A0=C2=A0 If (updated SL =3D=3D 0) {
=
=C2=A0=C2=A0 S14.2.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Pop the SRH=

=
=C2=A0=C2=A0 S14.3.=C2=A0=C2=A0 }
<=
u>=C2=A0

4.16.2.=C2=A0 USP: Ultimate Segment Pop of the SRH

<=
u>=C2=A0
<=
u>=C2=A0
=
=C2=A0=C2=A0 The SRH processing of the End, End.X and End.T behaviors are
=
=C2=A0=C2=A0 modified: the instructions S02-S04 are substituted by the foll=
owing
=
=C2=A0=C2=A0 ones:
<=
u>=C2=A0
=
=C2=A0=C2=A0 S02.=C2=A0=C2=A0 If (Segments Left =3D=3D 0) {
=
=C2=A0=C2=A0 S03.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Pop the SRH=

=
=C2=A0=C2=A0 S04.=C2=A0=C2=A0 }
<=
u>=C2=A0

4.16.3.=C2=A0 USD: Ultimate Segment Decapsulation

<=
u>=C2=A0
<=
u>=C2=A0
=
=C2=A0=C2=A0 The SRH processing of the End, End.X and End.T behaviors are
=
=C2=A0=C2=A0 modified: the instructions S02-S04 are substituted by the foll=
owing
=
=C2=A0=C2=A0 ones:
<=
u>=C2=A0
=
=C2=A0=C2=A0 S02.=C2=A0=C2=A0 If (Segments Left =3D=3D 0) {
=
=C2=A0=C2=A0 S03.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Skip the SRH processing and=
 proceed to the next header
=
=C2=A0=C2=A0 S04.=C2=A0=C2=A0 }
<=
u>=C2=A0
<=
u>=C2=A0
=
=C2=A0=C2=A0 Further on, the Upper-layer header processing of the End, End.=
X and
=
=C2=A0=C2=A0 End.T behaviors are modified as follows:<=
/pre>

=C2=A0


=C2=A0


Kind regards,


=C2=A0


Gyan

= =C2=A0

On Sat,= Dec 14, 2019 at 9:08 PM Wang, Weibin (NSB - CN/Shanghai) <weibin.wang@nokia-sbell= .com> wrote:

Hi Pablo:

=C2=A0

After the 2 context assumption in previous version of this draft, =C2=A0=E2= =80=9Cwe assume that there is no other exten= sion header than the SRH.=E2=80=9D =C2=A0and =C2=A0=E2=80=9CWe assume

=C2=A0=C2=A0 that the SRH may be present mul= tiple times inside each packet=E2=80=9D, are removed in this last dr= aft, I feel a bit confusion on USD SID, as well as combination of USD & USP.

=C2=A0

First, within the content of this last draft, the word =E2=80=9CFurther on= =E2=80=9D marked red in the following pseudocode in section =E2=80=9C4.16.3= =E2=80=9D is hard to understand if the packet being processed has other EH = embed between SRH and Upper-layer header, such as AH or other EH, then the processing control of this packet will be passed to normal IPv6 m= odule from current SRH processing module in SR-Node, so my question is : Ca= n its control after completing AH processing (for example) =C2=A0be back to= SRH module (or call it pseudocode module) to proceed the next header like =E2=80=9Cupper-lay header type =3D=3D41 or= 4=E2=80=9D.

Or, if not, Did you created a new EH processing protocol stack instance in = parallel to normal IPv6 module within the scope of SRH processing in SR-nod= e.

=C2=A0

4.16.3.=C2=A0 USD: Ultimate Segment Decapsul= ation

=C2=A0

S02.=C2=A0=C2=A0 If (Segments Left =3D=3D 0)= {

=C2=A0=C2=A0 S03.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0 Skip the SRH processing and proceed to the next header=

=C2=A0=C2=A0 S04.=C2=A0=C2=A0 }

=C2=A0

Further on, the Upper-layer header processing of = the End, End.X and

=C2=A0=C2=A0 End.T behaviors are modified as= follows:

=C2=A0

=C2=A0=C2=A0 End:

=C2=A0=C2=A0 S01. If (Upper-layer Header typ= e =3D=3D 41 || 4) {

=C2=A0=C2=A0 S02.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Remove t= he outer IPv6 Header with all its extension headers

=C2=A0=C2=A0 S03.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Submit t= he packet to the egress IP FIB lookup and

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 transmission to the new destination

=C2=A0=C2=A0 S04. } Else {<= /u>

=C2=A0=C2=A0 S05.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Send an = ICMP Parameter Problem message to the Source Address

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Code 4 (SR Upper-layer Header Error),<= /span>

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Pointer set to the offset of the upper= -layer header.

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Interrupt packet processing and discar= d the packet.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0=C2=A0 S06. }

=C2=A0

>From my understanding, the all processing action about specific SID must be= completed successively. That is to say, upon USD, the upper-layer header (= type 41 or 4) must be followed the SRH header being processed currently, or= second SRH following the same rule (of course, the draft not considering 2 or more successive SRHs). <= u>

=C2=A0

Second, the mixed SIDs function with combination of USD and USP (even PSP&a= mp;USD&USP), I think, it is easy to understand when the two assumption = above exist, but now I think it isn=E2=80=99t clear if you only provide the= following sentence in this draft, i.e. =C2=A0=E2=80=9Cif =E2=80=A6 else=E2= =80=A6=E2=80=9D statement:

=E2=80=9CAn implementation that supports the= USD flavor in conjunction with

=C2=A0=C2=A0 the USP flavor MAY optimize the= packet processing by first looking

=C2=A0=C2=A0 whether the conditions for the = USD flavor are met, in which case it

=C2=A0=C2=A0 can proceed with USD processing= else do USP processing.=E2=80=9D

This confusion is also described in my another mail. Of course, if the firs= t question is addressed then this confusion does not exist.

=C2=A0

By the way, is it really no different in text description before and after = the two context assumption above removed?

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Cheers !

=C2=A0

WANG Weibin

_______= ________________________________________
spring mailing list
spring@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spr= ing

-- <= /u>

Gyan S. Mishra

IT Network Engineering & Tech= nology=C2=A0

Verizon Communications=C2=A0Inc. = (VZ)

13101 Columb= ia Pike FDC1 3rd Floor

Silver Spring, MD 20904

United States

Phone:=C2=A0301 502-1347

Email:=C2=A0gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com

www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies-consultant

= =C2=A0

-- <= /u>

Gyan S. Mishra

IT Network Engineering & Tech= nology=C2=A0

Verizon Communications=C2=A0Inc. = (VZ)

13101 Columb= ia Pike FDC1 3rd Floor

Silver Spring, MD 20904

United States

Phone:=C2=A0301 502-1347

Email:=C2=A0gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com

www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies-consultant

= =C2=A0

--
<= div dir=3D"ltr">

Gyan S. Mishra

IT Networ= k Engineering & Technology=C2=A0=

Verizon Communications=C2=A0Inc. (VZ)=

13101 Columbia Pike FDC1 3rd Floor

=

Silver Spring, MD 20904

United States<= span style=3D"color:rgb(80,0,80);background-image:initial;background-positi= on:initial;background-repeat:initial">

Phone:=C2=A0301 502-1347

Email:=C2=A0gyan.s.mishra@verizon.= com

www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies-co= nsultant


--00000000000046e6cf059a1666d8-- From nobody Thu Dec 19 15:02:09 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0FA7D120089 for ; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 15:02:08 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=raszuk.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5glblu-wHQjQ for ; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 15:02:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qt1-x82d.google.com (mail-qt1-x82d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::82d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5DEAF12001A for ; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 15:02:06 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qt1-x82d.google.com with SMTP id d18so3825503qtj.10 for ; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 15:02:06 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=raszuk.net; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=HLkr/H6kbsy+zcsQ+6OSQu3pGxX3W8XpUxihqtv9mwU=; b=RbDB44vx50G0v/wqHt0RvKJaOAkfllT+0Wp4al6w/RdpssIn8w3KD0PnC2auaNGD4n umIDwTUL3KMLc0k0kOm6ZVwLZgNZJ3WmtkH4MWLZgFvnB9w8KBXDoen2j4wp9UGmDtug +YO70UsuqCz7O97AKY9sZ+kbtIU5g2iFRPIwEEJGVyYi2mE24lAYBIQIyei/AXH4nn0Q 1T2X/RRfF2xd3w4dN5B6b8CkizJIfgWdb1rpURooXIgvxtz+amkfDBn+NiN5b5gP7LBf s+ShPIVyKPpUasp3qR7PQYeaz4v26ckt3fbbuzOLUbWPUYwDhWo7Vh/3bUlVKLVFWlAh V0ng== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=HLkr/H6kbsy+zcsQ+6OSQu3pGxX3W8XpUxihqtv9mwU=; b=JhQBeNo3UejcPTKT78t2sh5p5gF1fImRg5tGzEVy0ucYmokg3dfFC62OqoApEQWOtb h+Wh4ZSJDqbIks34a5pw3zBdh/HY+Dlsvu/KqZ4cXVjfTH6YLBXR8bILrIdiK1KRZ3PS MpnzQforQnmJLoQF56p5bTBVBYbVlKeA0j1yPnrgfJujRwDyiYtzw5TeafDQajUekNyo sIdtOgQk0+d+siPEHZQINXsyP66qnQbw3Ln+g0dk1SFzvl/VISWnVuX9RZm2R8sJWLEe 65Jw2aKYE3LIhp2GfezBrvLAPha8M+pP3tKqBVPDcheU9rYV7C1aTtPe2tMqdf+0kHIC yW1Q== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAX8Hd95RDVJR5/HOOMXTa3sHBCXGYMPEb2Bcm82qW37JvPCiilC 7v/Y7lbop7zgHVPp4meK4n6UiYqYxCHULrxBabvHcQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxmekBfZs5itmbjzJDas28Lf4alg69GLCXmwLkJunrs3AsYNvp2MmEgUo8rMc1hYVaIDeKoJyGYXsp6Qqxo29s= X-Received: by 2002:ac8:3703:: with SMTP id o3mr9238801qtb.208.1576796525399; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 15:02:05 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <157609408568.11496.11799785813274132900@ietfa.amsl.com> <4c762fc5-8a61-e182-a9cc-d45b0f586ccc@gmail.com> <3A12D735-7899-4679-8FC8-DF8875D40A62@cisco.com> <628e5dfb-7ba4-d841-ebeb-cfc52d7294f1@gmail.com> <49b7e45f-a26f-cf4a-f8be-9aa917c34203@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <49b7e45f-a26f-cf4a-f8be-9aa917c34203@gmail.com> From: Robert Raszuk Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2019 00:01:57 +0100 Message-ID: To: Brian E Carpenter Cc: "Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)" , "spring@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000c7a317059a168c5f" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] I-D Action: draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-06.txt X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2019 23:02:08 -0000 --000000000000c7a317059a168c5f Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > And where is it forwarded to, since we are already at the DA? PSP operates at the n-1 segment end of the SR path so naturally after swapping DA it is forwarded to the segment end. Note that we are all along operating on the encapsulated header ... original packet including its original IPv6 header is sitting as passenger here. So last segment here will received encapsulated IPv6 packet will decapsulate it and fwd based on the original DA. Seems very simple :) Cheers, R. --000000000000c7a317059a168c5f Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0And where is it forwarde= d to, since we are already at the DA?

= PSP operates at the n-1 segment end of the SR path so naturally after swapp= ing DA it is forwarded to the segment end. Note that we are all along opera= ting on the encapsulated header ... original packet including its original = IPv6 header is sitting as passenger here.=C2=A0

So= last segment here will received encapsulated IPv6 packet will decapsulate = it and fwd based on the original DA.=C2=A0

Seems v= ery simple :)=C2=A0

Cheers,
R.
--000000000000c7a317059a168c5f-- From nobody Thu Dec 19 15:06:45 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D59C120089 for ; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 15:06:44 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=joelhalpern.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BY6mbQ2pikVn for ; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 15:06:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from maila2.tigertech.net (maila2.tigertech.net [208.80.4.152]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 40D2012001A for ; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 15:06:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by maila2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47f6vR1RZ6z6GDFl; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 15:06:43 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=joelhalpern.com; s=2.tigertech; t=1576796803; bh=Ye5mQzmsU/M1k/psk8mhNxtemDlVkW/jpgHirdQwi7I=; h=Subject:To:Cc:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=nUXXghnLNhMXQOguXghS0F2TQQrHH7NinAvsea7HqdS4KDhLQJtAdNLlUak5E3wBl Q+TNPnZNFzMJTCwBWfgzshCThGe00PN069sn9jCOmkiMMVQlyllAzyz2HEHnJCS/zc 3Bp8P/EtTWbZ664HXf5L+fow6iPa0aqje7vfqLVY= X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at a2.tigertech.net Received: from [192.168.128.43] (209-255-163-147.ip.mcleodusa.net [209.255.163.147]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by maila2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 47f6vQ4XjHz6GDCw; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 15:06:42 -0800 (PST) To: Robert Raszuk Cc: "spring@ietf.org" References: <157609408568.11496.11799785813274132900@ietfa.amsl.com> <4c762fc5-8a61-e182-a9cc-d45b0f586ccc@gmail.com> <3A12D735-7899-4679-8FC8-DF8875D40A62@cisco.com> <628e5dfb-7ba4-d841-ebeb-cfc52d7294f1@gmail.com> <49b7e45f-a26f-cf4a-f8be-9aa917c34203@gmail.com> From: "Joel M. Halpern" Message-ID: Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2019 18:06:40 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] I-D Action: draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-06.txt X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2019 23:06:44 -0000 Robert, you say we are operating on the encapsulating header. Do things still work right for the case that the authors felt was important in the SRH document where the source and destination hosts are inside the SR Domain, and therefore there is only one IPv6 header? (I would not be surprised if they do still work. But your assertion in the email below, and the repeated mention that the encapsulated case was the only case during the header insertion discussion in Singapore leaves me needing to clarify.) Yours, Joel On 12/19/2019 6:01 PM, Robert Raszuk wrote: > >   And where is it forwarded to, since we are already at the DA? > > PSP operates at the n-1 segment end of the SR path so naturally after > swapping DA it is forwarded to the segment end. Note that we are all > along operating on the encapsulated header ... original packet including > its original IPv6 header is sitting as passenger here. > > So last segment here will received encapsulated IPv6 packet will > decapsulate it and fwd based on the original DA. > > Seems very simple :) > > Cheers, > R. > > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > From nobody Thu Dec 19 15:07:20 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA193120125 for ; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 15:07:19 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=raszuk.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id woN7qPaUMYrt for ; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 15:07:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qk1-x734.google.com (mail-qk1-x734.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::734]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 882C812001A for ; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 15:07:17 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qk1-x734.google.com with SMTP id c17so6091863qkg.7 for ; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 15:07:17 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=raszuk.net; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=SwP1XBXlOVY6VH0I2KjKEaLke8jo6KIfEjCuoq39qs0=; b=CfZ75jNZLJNv96q5cF3VzSNaakE1bVimnfsbF7kUdErMiaYdUIpvmOHINms8TeFYPq VzHg1XS2Pfh0TuVizm2irmyIEMUw4ja/dpmv46KfoTZLVQlDcnSJpb4M7gxmu83/Iutj V4UynzweHyankO3Fl3AC6+RAUz6e6sYTZLG87nM9cEi8qXFpYpjOHNdzWlbVVvzNol// kAIO4DecarfseMp+Nspj1EyZ+PQnpPde1tNXBf4MRlVvwWZHRwcWahCaTX1428PMkjbg Vp5G8IzWByA9gYIiug+TP6DdjGM1woIo/bPAdL0ZxLMOKWVTmN9DEjDzvIzr9zOkZqCu UR9g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=SwP1XBXlOVY6VH0I2KjKEaLke8jo6KIfEjCuoq39qs0=; b=nb1cGEzPIBxWMPone0cw13uqbwSxZJe780An+eQmSDIKu5uXalZyRBdTuR7RT/QNeY tjj5r5ubWxKHP6WhPfrYIZdPoM4DCPCd17oZcrcLaoWtLcPUg9Qy/0yrdokBAuISGLvG qa3JYdNUVjclYRlTJnzGjYzPSAJVrUUUt2SHzlWwemCfaWmH8+1bT+41uGMKfz3RMMtc 4mWyQKjqFQOZ0Rm53YZt7D1kk2y2c7rs58xYbWVhBYyChzff1TgNv3gWoygCOjNNsvdq uP4Z2cJUwm5cl6cufx7reErwAq6ti2pYeYbrMpRIum901y/eH93kuwwUqS3OeEJw2nGv 810A== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWIpY2Iwt9s2nsjpbf7b3cE1Vso3U6xpFmYcxNfG7TAsxNvu243 5b+GWMlSWlZvYsGmkJj4/KM6zYCQ6D8yvfXo8BE6Dw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzJco62CCmHNv0hErkPfHDPf4U7silKTDCVo9cHRQaKkHpJ/DQ75iP2xazjTyB2JkkfivuDIO+w3ygPcXJR7a4= X-Received: by 2002:a37:274a:: with SMTP id n71mr10216093qkn.302.1576796836376; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 15:07:16 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <8f5607c9-645a-ea88-e2a7-a4bed8206fc8@gmail.com> <63F5AA66-AEF8-4278-B98C-D3C53AC5A60A@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: From: Robert Raszuk Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2019 00:07:08 +0100 Message-ID: To: Gyan Mishra Cc: Mark Smith , Alexandre Petrescu , SPRING WG , "Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000050c4a4059a169fb4" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] 64-bit locators X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2019 23:07:20 -0000 --00000000000050c4a4059a169fb4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Fixed length of any field LOC:FUNC:ARGs makes no sense to me. What is optimal for Ron or Mark may not be optimal for me. While we are at that fixed size of 128 bits of IPv6 also makes no sense - but that vessel left the harbour a while ago. Cheers, R. On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 10:57 PM Gyan Mishra wrote: > > > On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 4:17 PM Mark Smith wrote= : > >> >> >> On Thu, 19 Dec 2019, 22:48 Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril), < >> pcamaril@cisco.com> wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> As mentioned in the draft, the choice of the locator length is >>> deployment specific. >>> LINE has deployed SRv6 using a locator different than a /64. >>> >> >> This is effectively an appeal to authority. >> >> What makes what LINE has done the best and right thing to do? >> >> I can already see they're using the IPv4 link-local 169.254/16 prefix in >> a manner that wildly violates how it is specified to be used in RFC3927. >> See Slides 9, 12, 24. >> >> Tying your IPv6 addressing plan to IPv4 addressing could end up imposing >> IPv4's addressing limitations on IPv6 - defeating the primary purpose of >> IPv6 - providing many more addresses than IPv4. >> >> Slide 32 shows they're violating RFC 4193 (IPv6 ULAs), because they're >> using ULA-Cs ('fc') rather than ULA-Ls ('fd'), despite there being no >> central registry. Their 40 bit Global ID of "17" could be random, altho= ugh >> I'm guessing not, as random numbers would usually have far less zeros in >> them. These sorts of ULA errors are why I presented "Getting IPv6 >> Addressing Right" at AusNOG this year - >> https://www.slideshare.net/markzzzsmith/ausnog-2019-getting-ipv6-private= -addressing-right >> . >> >> >> This is an Internet Draft, so this is the best time to make these sorts >> of changes, as it is much easier now. When things become RFCs it becomes >> much harder (and much, much harder when they become Internet Standards). >> >> If somebody has deployed Internet Draft level technology, they have to >> accept the risk that what they've deployed might not comply with the >> eventual RFC. >> >> Regards, >> Mark. >> > > > [Gyan] For IPv6 addressing you can have any length prefix up to /128. i > am all for flexibility with vlsm even though may not be widely used. > > SRv6 SID encoding differs in that we had 3 fields > {locator;function;arguments} that I think it makes sense to be fixed in t= he > specification as Ron has brought up. > > From an operator perspective for programmability as SRv6 deployments with > or without centralized controller, fixed length of the 3 fields makes sen= se > so operators can easily craft ACLs for deployments. > > I think we could go crazy with the sizing but I think since 64 bit > boundary exists today for slaac we could make the locator /64 as well is > fine. We could split the other 2 fields evenly 32 bits each or make the > function longer. I think we=E2=80=99ll defined sizing is important so SI= D > addressing plan is not chaotic. > >> >> >> >>> Cheers, >>> Pablo. >>> >>> [1] >>> https://speakerdeck.com/line_developers/line-data-center-networking-wit= h-srv6 >>> >>> =EF=BB=BF-----Original Message----- >>> From: spring on behalf of Alexandre Petrescu = < >>> alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> >>> Date: Thursday, 19 December 2019 at 09:44 >>> To: "spring@ietf.org" >>> Subject: Re: [spring] 64-bit locators >>> >>> >>> >>> Le 19/12/2019 =C3=A0 00:13, Mark Smith a =C3=A9crit : >>> [...] >>> >>> > VLSM [variable length subnet mask] is fundamentally hard, >>> >>> We need VLSM in other places too, such as in ULA prefixes fd and fc= . >>> >>> I think it is indeed a difficult to grasp concept, but it is there >>> for >>> growth. >>> >>> Alex >>> >>> > >>> > Regards, >>> > Mark. >>> > >>> > __ >>> > >>> > In this case, we should probably change the document to refle= ct >>> > implemented behavior.____ >>> > >>> > __ __ >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Ron____ >>> > >>> > __ __ >>> > >>> > >>> > Juniper Business Use Only >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > spring mailing list >>> > spring@ietf.org >>> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > spring mailing list >>> > spring@ietf.org >>> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring >>> > >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> spring mailing list >>> spring@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> spring mailing list >>> spring@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> spring mailing list >> spring@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring >> > -- > > Gyan S. Mishra > > IT Network Engineering & Technology > > Verizon Communications Inc. (VZ) > > 13101 Columbia Pike FDC1 3rd Floor > > Silver Spring, MD 20904 > > United States > > Phone: 301 502-1347 > > Email: gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com > > www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies-consultant > > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > --00000000000050c4a4059a169fb4 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Fixed length=C2=A0of any field LOC:FUNC:ARG= s makes no sense to me. What is optimal for Ron or Mark may not be optimal = for me.=C2=A0

While we are at that fixed size of 128 bit= s of IPv6 also makes no sense - but that vessel left the harbour a while ag= o.=C2=A0

Cheers,
R.

<= br>


On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 10:57 PM Gyan Mishra = <hayabusagsm@gmail.com> = wrote:

=

On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 4:17 PM Mark Smith <markzzzsmith@gmail.com> wrote:<= br>


On Thu, 19 Dec 2019, 22:48 Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)= , <pcamaril@cisco.com> wrote:
Hi,

As mentioned in the draft, the choice of the locator length is deployment s= pecific.
LINE has deployed SRv6 using a locator different than a /64.

This is effecti= vely an appeal to authority.

What makes what LINE has done the best and right thing to do?

I can already see they're using the IPv4 = link-local 169.254/16 prefix in a manner that wildly violates how it is spe= cified to be used in RFC3927. See Slides 9, 12, 24.

Tying your IPv6 addressing plan to IPv4 addressing could end up impos= ing IPv4's addressing limitations on IPv6 - defeating the primary purpo= se of IPv6 - providing many more addresses than IPv4.

Slide 32 shows they're violating RFC 4193 (IPv6 ULAs), because = they're using ULA-Cs ('fc') rather than ULA-Ls ('fd'), = despite there being no central registry.=C2=A0 Their 40 bit Global ID of &q= uot;17" could be random, although I'm guessing not, as random numb= ers would usually have far less zeros in them. These sorts of ULA errors ar= e why I presented "Getting IPv6 Addressing Right" at AusNOG this = year -=C2=A0https://www.slides= hare.net/markzzzsmith/ausnog-2019-getting-ipv6-private-addressing-right= =C2=A0.


Thi= s is an Internet Draft, so this is the best time to make these sorts of cha= nges, as it is much easier now. When things become RFCs it becomes much har= der (and much, much harder when they become Internet Standards).
<= div dir=3D"auto">
If somebody has deployed Internet Draft lev= el technology, they have to accept the risk that what they've deployed = might not comply with the eventual RFC.

Regards,
Mark.
=C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0
=C2=A0[Gyan] For IPv6 addressing you can have any length prefix up to /1= 28. =C2=A0i am all for flexibility with vlsm even though may not be widely = used.

SRv6 SID encod= ing differs in that we had 3 fields {locator;function;arguments} that I thi= nk it makes sense to be fixed in the specification as Ron has brought up. = =C2=A0

From an operator = perspective for programmability as SRv6 deployments with or without central= ized controller, fixed length of the 3 fields makes sense so operators can = easily craft ACLs for deployments. =C2=A0

=
I think we could go crazy with the sizing but I think sin= ce 64 bit boundary exists today for slaac we could make the locator /64 as = well is fine.=C2=A0 We could split the other 2 fields evenly 32 bits each o= r make the function longer.=C2=A0 I think we=E2=80=99ll defined sizing is i= mportant so SID addressing plan is not chaotic.



Cheers,
Pablo.

[1] https://speakerdeck.com/line_developers/line-data-center-networking-with= -srv6

=EF=BB=BF-----Original Message-----
From: spring <spring-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf = of Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com= >
Date: Thursday, 19 December 2019 at 09:44
To: "spring@ietf.org" <spring@ietf.org= >
Subject: Re: [spring] 64-bit locators



=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Le 19/12/2019 =C3=A0 00:13, Mark Smith a =C3=A9crit :
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 [...]

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > VLSM [variable length subnet mask] is fundamentally hard= ,

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 We need VLSM in other places too, such as in ULA prefixes fd = and fc.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 I think it is indeed a difficult to grasp concept, but it is = there for
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 growth.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Alex

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > Regards,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > Mark.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0__
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0In this case, we should probably chan= ge the document to reflect
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0implemented behavior.____
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0__ __
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Ron____
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0__ __
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Juniper Business Use Only
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0_____________________________________= __________
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0spring mailing list
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0spring@ietf.org <mailt= o:spring@ietf.org>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > _______________________________________________
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > spring mailing list
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > spring@ietf.org
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > https://www.iet= f.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 _______________________________________________
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 spring mailing list
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 spring@ietf.org
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://www.ietf.or= g/mailman/listinfo/spring


_______________________________________________
spring mailing list
spring@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listi= nfo/spring
_______________________________________________
spring mailing list
spring@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
--

Gyan S. Mishra<= span style=3D"color:rgb(80,0,80);background-image:initial;background-positi= on:initial;background-repeat:initial">

IT Network Engineering & Technology=C2=A0=

Verizon Communications=C2=A0Inc. (VZ)=

13101 Columbia Pike FDC1 3rd Floor

=

Silver Spring, MD 20904

United States<= span style=3D"color:rgb(80,0,80);background-image:initial;background-positi= on:initial;background-repeat:initial">

Phone:=C2=A0301 502-1347

Email:=C2=A0gyan.s.mishra@verizon.= com

www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies-co= nsultant


_______________________________________________
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--00000000000050c4a4059a169fb4-- From nobody Thu Dec 19 15:11:09 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C05612001A for ; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 15:11:08 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=raszuk.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id awIK-HIxv3ml for ; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 15:11:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qt1-x836.google.com (mail-qt1-x836.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::836]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B1685120089 for ; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 15:11:06 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qt1-x836.google.com with SMTP id k40so6523973qtk.8 for ; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 15:11:06 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=raszuk.net; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=WeIx4AZ4hxn9jyC/SY4LGZDwe6Iq8DObI6BUUSa2/uI=; b=MPXHtzGat7EIlHv091YOrPz8v0swn+p+dmhJ9L9+yFPvtGGBPPwEqt2P0NQ4Zi6F8e d7mYlQa1I/PSnZRa9ToZlD/CDfOcYk79nnbCLAL2ayC7ejq4PD2Hzk4lOUz6oF13ILw2 FCrX1r53UaVViIMa889SHc72JdGFTScPYx947XiamuRYbxlCgTfRzBE+S/zQ0ZlIhrlq jYBrzZVaV//EbKFp3EduK3S8FCiuA3JAFRykQlBR9ELbsFSEs/PgKGYpZTMNXcC8EQMs orD6v7Com044rmMpZw/nlbU9Jm6C0PUpdk6HmeY1RQCJWQzndm/udkhXhbOhyN5fYPoi ZkUw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=WeIx4AZ4hxn9jyC/SY4LGZDwe6Iq8DObI6BUUSa2/uI=; b=I3dadv4DNXiA1khb0JCP2+Rb8V7jClKhjVf0N9dmVGJ+cOFUjXCgEPO1bo3pgdlAnR Q1sfSrhBTvPjDxCegty+GXJpAMt7yuBL1+QsNa99gi7HJ946LTKvAVG6L8CDBz7GzFIi c7u405qrzIonO7FDOhXLo+bweqjk9tmdfGIOpqw/SEeXRGXsq4+TnJFl8RYKxHvjuavD fUte3C+vDqR+AdqIPtwT70IKqlDWlLmI3j/rsOapG7Tou1c8dr7jWrhE/Nc9gG7ugWpd 6N02s+/SmxZS/UgnOm/3ms3pqHCGC9vmFwXXTvnKisMbJEt84pxGJH1f2IPjONk8Jxt5 acbQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAV0U0DZZ//9WK0lf0aCxNSPX6rZgVv/1sPgTCc48zWfI1bvnF4D oENkWGrNSoWSl/E1q1DGa641HJK611BcQUBGX/JOgqYdTyg= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwLXFXpVWFEkIbw2jMn6HeHLfazv8/+gGMewb/3nqdxIHj7zki1zHD9eG9tb7fm/U1bqtD1t4KV1GxqSk802uQ= X-Received: by 2002:aed:2584:: with SMTP id x4mr9746935qtc.343.1576797065847; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 15:11:05 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <157609408568.11496.11799785813274132900@ietfa.amsl.com> <4c762fc5-8a61-e182-a9cc-d45b0f586ccc@gmail.com> <3A12D735-7899-4679-8FC8-DF8875D40A62@cisco.com> <628e5dfb-7ba4-d841-ebeb-cfc52d7294f1@gmail.com> <49b7e45f-a26f-cf4a-f8be-9aa917c34203@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: From: Robert Raszuk Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2019 00:10:58 +0100 Message-ID: To: "Joel M. Halpern" Cc: "spring@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000fe3ac0059a16ac61" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] I-D Action: draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-06.txt X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2019 23:11:08 -0000 --000000000000fe3ac0059a16ac61 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Joel, Yes I do not see why things would not work if original SRC would insert SRH and PSP would happen leaving original DA to forward. Case of no encap. I was more responding to Brian's question "Where are we forwarding if we are at DA" ... that very DA was the encapsulated one I presume. But your observation is correct. Many thx, R. On Fri, Dec 20, 2019 at 12:06 AM Joel M. Halpern wrote: > Robert, you say we are operating on the encapsulating header. > Do things still work right for the case that the authors felt was > important in the SRH document where the source and destination hosts are > inside the SR Domain, and therefore there is only one IPv6 header? (I > would not be surprised if they do still work. But your assertion in the > email below, and the repeated mention that the encapsulated case was the > only case during the header insertion discussion in Singapore leaves me > needing to clarify.) > > Yours, > Joel > > On 12/19/2019 6:01 PM, Robert Raszuk wrote: > > > And where is it forwarded to, since we are already at the DA? > > > > PSP operates at the n-1 segment end of the SR path so naturally after > > swapping DA it is forwarded to the segment end. Note that we are all > > along operating on the encapsulated header ... original packet including > > its original IPv6 header is sitting as passenger here. > > > > So last segment here will received encapsulated IPv6 packet will > > decapsulate it and fwd based on the original DA. > > > > Seems very simple :) > > > > Cheers, > > R. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > spring mailing list > > spring@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > > > --000000000000fe3ac0059a16ac61 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Joel,

Yes I do not see why things wo= uld not work if original=C2=A0SRC would insert SRH and PSP would happen lea= ving original=C2=A0DA to forward.=C2=A0 Case of no encap.=C2=A0
<= br>
I was more responding to Brian's question "Where are= we forwarding if we are at DA" ... that very DA was the encapsulated= =C2=A0one I presume.=C2=A0

But your observation is= correct.=C2=A0

Many thx,
R.




On Fri, Dec 20, 2019 at 12:06 AM Joel M. Ha= lpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com>= ; wrote:
Robert,= you say we are operating on the encapsulating header.
Do things still work right for the case that the authors felt was
important in the SRH document where the source and destination hosts are inside the SR Domain, and therefore there is only one IPv6 header?=C2=A0 (I=
would not be surprised if they do still work.=C2=A0 But your assertion in t= he
email below, and the repeated mention that the encapsulated case was the only case during the header insertion discussion in Singapore leaves me needing to clarify.)

Yours,
Joel

On 12/19/2019 6:01 PM, Robert Raszuk wrote:
>=C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0And where is it forwarded to, since we are alre= ady at the DA?
>
> PSP operates at the n-1 segment end of the SR path so naturally after =
> swapping DA it is forwarded to the segment end. Note that we are all <= br> > along operating on the encapsulated header ... original packet includi= ng
> its original IPv6 header is sitting as passenger here.
>
> So last segment here will received encapsulated IPv6 packet will
> decapsulate it and fwd based on the original DA.
>
> Seems very simple :)
>
> Cheers,
> R.
>
> _______________________________________________
> spring mailing list
> spring@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring >
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definitions=main-1912190173 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] SRv6 Network Programming Endpoint Behavior Registry X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2019 23:41:49 -0000 --_000_BN7PR05MB56999FF3CF568E0EEF30A0ABAE520BN7PR05MB5699namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 UGFibG8sDQoNCkNvdWxkIHlvdSBtYWtlIHRoYXQgY2xlYXIgaW4gU2VjdGlvbiA5LjIuIEkgcmVh ZCBpdCB0aGUgb3RoZXIgd2F5Lg0KDQogICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgUm9uDQoNCg0KDQpKdW5pcGVyIEJ1c2luZXNzIFVzZSBPbmx5DQpG cm9tOiBzcHJpbmcgPHNwcmluZy1ib3VuY2VzQGlldGYub3JnPiBPbiBCZWhhbGYgT2YgUGFibG8g Q2FtYXJpbGxvIChwY2FtYXJpbCkNClNlbnQ6IFRodXJzZGF5LCBEZWNlbWJlciAxOSwgMjAxOSAx Mjo1NCBQTQ0KVG86IEpvZWwgTS4gSGFscGVybiA8am1oQGpvZWxoYWxwZXJuLmNvbT47IHNwcmlu 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[111.69.147.228]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 189sm10317344pfw.73.2019.12.19.17.44.49 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 19 Dec 2019 17:44:50 -0800 (PST) To: Robert Raszuk Cc: "Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)" , "spring@ietf.org" References: <157609408568.11496.11799785813274132900@ietfa.amsl.com> <4c762fc5-8a61-e182-a9cc-d45b0f586ccc@gmail.com> <3A12D735-7899-4679-8FC8-DF8875D40A62@cisco.com> <628e5dfb-7ba4-d841-ebeb-cfc52d7294f1@gmail.com> <49b7e45f-a26f-cf4a-f8be-9aa917c34203@gmail.com> From: Brian E Carpenter Message-ID: <0f492db1-d168-473c-8447-9e08d51c2039@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2019 14:44:45 +1300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] I-D Action: draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-06.txt X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2019 01:44:55 -0000 On 20-Dec-19 12:01, Robert Raszuk wrote: >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0And where is it forwarded to, since we are already at the = DA? >=20 > PSP operates at the n-1 segment end of the SR path so naturally after s= wapping DA it is forwarded to the segment end. Note that we are all along= operating on the encapsulated header ... original packet including its o= riginal IPv6 header is sitting as passenger here.=C2=A0 >=20 > So last segment here will received encapsulated IPv6 packet will decaps= ulate it and fwd based on the original DA.=C2=A0 >=20 > Seems very simple :)=C2=A0 Right, but the language in the PSP sub-section does not talk about decaps= ulation. I think the root problem may be using the word "pop", which is r= elevant in the MPLS label stack context but not here, without additional = definition. Brian From nobody Thu Dec 19 19:39:32 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E830A120116 for ; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 19:39:30 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.997 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.997 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XcdNj6dUlylS for ; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 19:39:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-lj1-x22f.google.com (mail-lj1-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::22f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EC10912006F for ; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 19:39:25 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-lj1-x22f.google.com with SMTP id u71so8485321lje.11 for ; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 19:39:25 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=SY98bJqqCAv+x3gz/jukZHKkSLotmP7Yt4acXQ5p++Y=; b=ROacb7h90E+sqpHkjSo0HRTEB5bBNMda069gpS4vEqH7+6Y/aPDJcKwRtbobgggf+g nSSzcGV1Bj34NlomzKPtKraGDtL/36IHzhcPRAhD/stkOgaYMjzEFboRTZP5jwXEB4O7 OWombXeRsWBN0l0FqiE+c/jVWOfRElxJO5h1UBV/tGbgTmD2aoFk2zvIUO7FJbLDjJ5+ 7y+6Tuy4YdFWcqSaA4hEy8dRC1iPQZSgM9C0+AKcdk1lujDo1Vy1pEa6DwWalfJ6N2P/ 10M4Ul3fhBy7mjGXQddTZJd33NyNzaOt0PNp1k5L0dsVMJE0teIcjALZaS4T+V8fv2sq iFPg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=SY98bJqqCAv+x3gz/jukZHKkSLotmP7Yt4acXQ5p++Y=; b=UhuMCkVS+B8wvk7LKoJYtVCYZ0OKOVlFcRi2EpizMKVio/8B5S91rkgPAbWs4TeRhy FFb5qT4fMLcfCjpfBC8PFB8SSvDNUpYN6mSkl2Wzj8lqz3o3AB1AIckVUEba1OlxdP3h ZoB2Wh4YrMoxwBoFnZoJSGyey6ZCj2rlBfaXJHJ+/pF/NIy2cDUKbw/jy5xB8QvTlfH+ FXj2V/8HbVOBJsb+ICXgpetIt9VY2geVM72Jp9JwicyEI6vjoRPfQd2vSrHd4gjUQIoT F85ZMJS7cwEHSpiXDWDHvGZlwyaOHc3mfWMiMNho3onLjNkK5l4sFcxGqzQl0M9KqK1b y2ng== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVKEviaNKpI3OHXTcmD6qPqt/TLnmeB1Zb3ODso/UstR7j5P5iB KIF2dNbYg6brN/o65oPgnk9TWj2I2YMhQ03XcaFHow== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyydbnLBSzzbJjhWLAGUGoGAx2wF6AXgXUR94JVNWnn0b7MIbcfba9VcRu0pDjqs6C4JOWS6bxRNqhXEpo29kI= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:6c06:: with SMTP id h6mr7987005ljc.246.1576813163658; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 19:39:23 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <157681308946.15810.5035622155250288552.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <157681308946.15810.5035622155250288552.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Greg Mirsky Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2019 19:39:12 -0800 Message-ID: To: spring Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000007f41a9059a1a6c91" Archived-At: Subject: [spring] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-mirsky-spring-bfd-09.txt X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2019 03:39:31 -0000 --0000000000007f41a9059a1a6c91 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Dear All, a new section Implementation Status has been added. Your comments and questions are alwaysl ---------- Forwarded message --------- From: Date: Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 7:38 PM Subject: New Version Notification for draft-mirsky-spring-bfd-09.txt To: Ilya Varlashkin , Gregory Mirsky < gregimirsky@gmail.com>, Ilya Varlashkin , Jeff Tantsura < jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>, Mach Chen (Guoyi) A new version of I-D, draft-mirsky-spring-bfd-09.txt has been successfully submitted by Greg Mirsky and posted to the IETF repository. Name: draft-mirsky-spring-bfd Revision: 09 Title: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection (BFD) in Segment Routing Networks Using MPLS Dataplane Document date: 2019-12-19 Group: Individual Submission Pages: 13 URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-mirsky-spring-bfd-09.txt Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-mirsky-spring-bfd/ Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-mirsky-spring-bfd-09 Htmlized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-mirsky-spring-bfd Diff: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-mirsky-spring-bfd-09 Abstract: Segment Routing (SR) architecture leverages the paradigm of source routing. It can be realized in the Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS) network without any change to the data plane. A segment is encoded as an MPLS label, and an ordered list of segments is encoded as a stack of labels. Bidirectional Forwarding Detection (BFD) is expected to monitor any existing path between systems. This document defines how to use Label Switched Path Ping to bootstrap a BFD session, control path in reverse direction of the SR-MPLS tunnel and applicability of BFD Demand mode in the SR-MPLS domain. Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. The IETF Secretariat --0000000000007f41a9059a1a6c91 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear All,
a new section Implementation Status has been= added.
Your comments and questions are alwaysl

---------- Forwarded= message ---------
From: <internet-drafts@ietf.org>
Date: Thu, D= ec 19, 2019 at 7:38 PM
Subject: New Version Notification for draft-mirsk= y-spring-bfd-09.txt
To: Ilya Varlashkin <ilya@nobulus.com>, Gregory Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>, Ilya Varlashkin <Ilya@nobulus.com>, Jeff Tantsura <= jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>,= Mach Chen (Guoyi) <mach.chen@hu= awei.com>



A new version of I-D, draft-mirsky-spring-bfd-09.txt
has been successfully submitted by Greg Mirsky and posted to the
IETF repository.

Name:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0draft-mirsky-spring-bfd
Revision:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A009
Title:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Bidirectional Forwarding Detection= (BFD) in Segment Routing Networks Using MPLS Dataplane
Document date:=C2=A0 2019-12-19
Group:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Individual Submission
Pages:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 13
URL:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-mirsky-spring-bfd-0= 9.txt
Status:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0ht= tps://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-mirsky-spring-bfd/
Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://to= ols.ietf.org/html/draft-mirsky-spring-bfd-09
Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0htt= ps://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-mirsky-spring-bfd
Diff:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-mirsky-spring-bfd-09<= br>
Abstract:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Segment Routing (SR) architecture leverages the paradigm of so= urce
=C2=A0 =C2=A0routing.=C2=A0 It can be realized in the Multiprotocol Label S= witching
=C2=A0 =C2=A0(MPLS) network without any change to the data plane.=C2=A0 A s= egment is
=C2=A0 =C2=A0encoded as an MPLS label, and an ordered list of segments is e= ncoded
=C2=A0 =C2=A0as a stack of labels.=C2=A0 Bidirectional Forwarding Detection= (BFD) is
=C2=A0 =C2=A0expected to monitor any existing path between systems.=C2=A0 T= his document
=C2=A0 =C2=A0defines how to use Label Switched Path Ping to bootstrap a BFD=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0session, control path in reverse direction of the SR-MPLS tunn= el and
=C2=A0 =C2=A0applicability of BFD Demand mode in the SR-MPLS domain.




Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio= n
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

The IETF Secretariat

--0000000000007f41a9059a1a6c91-- From nobody Thu Dec 19 19:40:43 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DCA3812006F for ; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 19:40:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.997 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.997 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4bQNjotgab9d for ; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 19:40:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-lf1-x12c.google.com (mail-lf1-x12c.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::12c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CEE3612001A for ; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 19:40:36 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-lf1-x12c.google.com with SMTP id f15so5876813lfl.13 for ; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 19:40:36 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=N1hm3KHiY38GQatnuj2q9LJ8EoffUtQP+0ocQ0d2aFM=; b=Zd1g0sLZKb6DN78W9mUrBgOHbCxE5omEOxMJozyk8QWepFTtbqFnQKPKtEphBxKJNN O0VYjz87AJmYzsK1Hr/2NMKvtdulDJD1nq48rL99WDLQnAJZpbDpAHm9bXmHZJYfzjKa dws0fUnO5QV+5J1bPMuDAeDogeoy5EKVaB6uzoEeAYA3MDzd5K/w2X3pOLw9Ws2+KHj3 VQp8CPxTR70j0Ksx17AMLSwtbrGW471SEgjOj6DqC4wo88DHkU8OBysbl3Kcm9jJZy1p hhQhltyrsXpYRvfsZox5XPoUWruFYYs5I6Cp3j1JBFf/msEYcHKx1HZnHAiV47g1H/wZ QTPA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=N1hm3KHiY38GQatnuj2q9LJ8EoffUtQP+0ocQ0d2aFM=; b=dmCaBnC3RLhLLRcgls85j+Spvigs4Wm2yQWuYB/Oetx+TYDMcXXHX22qRgH7MMmTRU td7Frve5pDJ/vWpuEZqSIblvm1QCSU8A7EJqP0aBoPcHkD2T0/SbleU4sYqtqGek3h3O SDBSqfiz6SdhzvoqTt5xGFqwyf3bAlYh/S6HXQ7HzIJDTdSI7YYLwWxckWT2uyptyIEI l6eVZyAq3mfbx/ToNly0ZHFt9RCZD4G4hOsDFHVWvFCFlzu1o8Lrj5zBm+IlLbv7tNMC Fyuq0u6RTrOMpX23Wj4wksCofcGPLsyqS5rIz1fU/cp3VU+SmbSr72XXGTRhNH0w5zJu Kttw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUvEMyU6QYEF0nzqqFYpqSV4Cdn+ZS2niYzT+vpjXhLwDW1JZac +nBTKZfgXoU/dDAZU5UrhSyArTHSziZQc3Z3g6Akag== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzt4zQ7YuL8idu1kr+8tGQeQG/cB5b08DppQjtpSAyQO9l/Z7g4oosuStIj4K0AKtk9KBIrCaBhh+M7otKiTv4= X-Received: by 2002:a19:ca59:: with SMTP id h25mr7382434lfj.27.1576813234601; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 19:40:34 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <157681308946.15810.5035622155250288552.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: From: Greg Mirsky Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2019 19:40:23 -0800 Message-ID: To: spring Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000b9c2bc059a1a7085" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] New Version Notification for draft-mirsky-spring-bfd-09.txt X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2019 03:40:42 -0000 --000000000000b9c2bc059a1a7085 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Dear All, Your comments and questions are always welcome and greatly appreciated. Best regards, Greg On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 7:39 PM Greg Mirsky wrote: > Dear All, > a new section Implementation Status has been added. > Your comments and questions are alwaysl > > ---------- Forwarded message --------- > From: > Date: Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 7:38 PM > Subject: New Version Notification for draft-mirsky-spring-bfd-09.txt > To: Ilya Varlashkin , Gregory Mirsky < > gregimirsky@gmail.com>, Ilya Varlashkin , Jeff Tantsura > , Mach Chen (Guoyi) > > > > A new version of I-D, draft-mirsky-spring-bfd-09.txt > has been successfully submitted by Greg Mirsky and posted to the > IETF repository. > > Name: draft-mirsky-spring-bfd > Revision: 09 > Title: Bidirectional Forwarding Detection (BFD) in Segment > Routing Networks Using MPLS Dataplane > Document date: 2019-12-19 > Group: Individual Submission > Pages: 13 > URL: > https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-mirsky-spring-bfd-09.txt > Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-mirsky-spring-bfd/ > Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-mirsky-spring-bfd-09 > Htmlized: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-mirsky-spring-bfd > Diff: > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-mirsky-spring-bfd-09 > > Abstract: > Segment Routing (SR) architecture leverages the paradigm of source > routing. It can be realized in the Multiprotocol Label Switching > (MPLS) network without any change to the data plane. A segment is > encoded as an MPLS label, and an ordered list of segments is encoded > as a stack of labels. Bidirectional Forwarding Detection (BFD) is > expected to monitor any existing path between systems. This document > defines how to use Label Switched Path Ping to bootstrap a BFD > session, control path in reverse direction of the SR-MPLS tunnel and > applicability of BFD Demand mode in the SR-MPLS domain. > > > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > The IETF Secretariat > > --000000000000b9c2bc059a1a7085 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear All,
Your comments and questions are always welco= me and greatly appreciated.

Best regards,
Greg=

On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 7:39 PM Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear All,a new section Implementation Status has been added.
Your comme= nts and questions are alwaysl

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: = <internet-drafts@ietf.org>
Date: Thu, Dec 19, 2= 019 at 7:38 PM
Subject: New Version Notification for draft-mirsky-spring= -bfd-09.txt
To: Ilya Varlashkin <ilya@nobulus.com>, Gregory Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>= ;, Ilya Varlashkin <Ilya@nobulus.com>, Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>, Mach Chen = (Guoyi) <mach.= chen@huawei.com>



A new version of I-D, draft-mirsky-spring-bfd-09.txt
has been successfully submitted by Greg Mirsky and posted to the
IETF repository.

Name:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0draft-mirsky-spring-bfd
Revision:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A009
Title:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Bidirectional Forwarding Detection= (BFD) in Segment Routing Networks Using MPLS Dataplane
Document date:=C2=A0 2019-12-19
Group:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Individual Submission
Pages:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 13
URL:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-mirsky-spring-bfd-0= 9.txt
Status:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0ht= tps://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-mirsky-spring-bfd/
Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://to= ols.ietf.org/html/draft-mirsky-spring-bfd-09
Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0htt= ps://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-mirsky-spring-bfd
Diff:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-mirsky-spring-bfd-09<= br>
Abstract:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Segment Routing (SR) architecture leverages the paradigm of so= urce
=C2=A0 =C2=A0routing.=C2=A0 It can be realized in the Multiprotocol Label S= witching
=C2=A0 =C2=A0(MPLS) network without any change to the data plane.=C2=A0 A s= egment is
=C2=A0 =C2=A0encoded as an MPLS label, and an ordered list of segments is e= ncoded
=C2=A0 =C2=A0as a stack of labels.=C2=A0 Bidirectional Forwarding Detection= (BFD) is
=C2=A0 =C2=A0expected to monitor any existing path between systems.=C2=A0 T= his document
=C2=A0 =C2=A0defines how to use Label Switched Path Ping to bootstrap a BFD=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0session, control path in reverse direction of the SR-MPLS tunn= el and
=C2=A0 =C2=A0applicability of BFD Demand mode in the SR-MPLS domain.




Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio= n
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

The IETF Secretariat

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charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: [spring] =?gb2312?b?tPC4tDogSVBSIHBvbGwgZm9yIGRyYWZ0LWlldGYtc3By?= =?gb2312?b?aW5nLXNydjYtbmV0d29yay1wcm9ncmFtbWluZw==?= X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2019 03:47:51 -0000 SGkgYWxsLCANCg0KQSByZW1pbmRlciBmb3IgdGhpcyBJUFIgUG9sbC4gDQoNClRoZSBtaXNzaW5n IGF1dGhvcnM6IFAuIENhbWFyaWxsbw0KVGhlIG1pc3NpbmcgY29udHJpYnV0b3JzOiBQcmVtIEpv bm5hbGFnYWRkYSwgTWlsYWQgU2hhcmlmLCBHYXVyYXYgTmFpaywgQXJ0aGkgQXl5YW5nYXINCg0K UGxlYXNlIGxldCBtZSBrbm93IGlmIHlvdSBoYXZlIGFscmVhZHkgcmVwbGllZC4gVGhhbmsgeW91 ISANCg0KQmVzdCByZWdhcmRzLCANClNodXBpbmcNCg0KDQoNCi0tLS0t08q8/tStvP4tLS0tLQ0K t6K8/sjLOiBzcHJpbmcgW21haWx0bzpzcHJpbmctYm91bmNlc0BpZXRmLm9yZ10gtPqx7SBicnVu by5kZWNyYWVuZUBvcmFuZ2UuY29tDQq3osvNyrG85DogMjAxOcTqMTLUwjbI1SAwOjUwDQrK1bz+ yMs6ICdTUFJJTkcgV0cgTGlzdCcgPHNwcmluZ0BpZXRmLm9yZz47IGRyYWZ0LWlldGYtc3ByaW5n LXNydjYtbmV0d29yay1wcm9ncmFtbWluZyA8ZHJhZnQtaWV0Zi1zcHJpbmctc3J2Ni1uZXR3b3Jr LXByb2dyYW1taW5nQGlldGYub3JnPg0K1vfM4jogW3NwcmluZ10gSVBSIHBvbGwgZm9yIGRyYWZ0 LWlldGYtc3ByaW5nLXNydjYtbmV0d29yay1wcm9ncmFtbWluZw0KDQpIaSBTUFJJTkcgV0csDQoN CkluIHBhcmFsbGVsIHRvIHRoZSBXR0xDIGZvciBkcmFmdC1pZXRmLXNwcmluZy1zcnY2LW5ldHdv cmstcHJvZ3JhbW1pbmcsIHdlIHdvdWxkIGxpa2UgdG8gcG9sbCBmb3IgSVBSLg0KDQpJZiB5b3Ug YXJlIGF3YXJlIG9mIElQUiB0aGF0IGFwcGxpZXMgdG8gZHJhZnQtaWV0Zi1zcHJpbmctc3J2Ni1u ZXR3b3JrLXByb2dyYW1taW5nIFsxXSBwbGVhc2UgcmVzcG9uZCB0byB0aGlzIGVtYWlsLiBJZiB5 b3UgYXJlIGF3YXJlIG9mIElQUiwgcGxlYXNlIGluZGljYXRlIHdoZXRoZXIgaXQgaGFzIGJlZW4g ZGlzY2xvc2VkIGluIGFjY29yZGFuY2Ugd2l0aCBJRVRGIElQUiBydWxlcyAoUkZDcyAzOTc5LCA0 ODc5LCAzNjY5IGFuZCA1Mzc4IHByb3ZpZGUgbW9yZSBkZXRhaWxzKS4NCg0KSWYgeW91IGFyZSBh biAqYXV0aG9yIG9yIGNvbnRyaWJ1dG9yKiBwbGVhc2UgcmVzcG9uZCB0byB0aGlzIGVtYWlsIHJl Z2FyZGxlc3Mgb2Ygd2hldGhlciBvciBub3QgeW91J3JlIGF3YXJlIG9mIGFueSBJUFIuIA0KDQpU aGlzIGRvY3VtZW50IHdpbGwgbm90IGFkdmFuY2UgdW50aWwgSVBSIGNvbmZpcm1hdGlvbnMgaGF2 ZSBiZWVuIHJlY2VpdmVkIGZyb20gYWxsIGF1dGhvcnMgYW5kIGNvbnRyaWJ1dG9ycy4NCg0KVGhh bmsgeW91LA0KQnJ1bm8NCg0KWzFdIGh0dHBzOi8vdG9vbHMuaWV0Zi5vcmcvaHRtbC9kcmFmdC1p ZXRmLXNwcmluZy1zcnY2LW5ldHdvcmstcHJvZ3JhbW1pbmctMDUNCg0KDQpfX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQoNCkNl IG1lc3NhZ2UgZXQgc2VzIHBpZWNlcyBqb2ludGVzIHBldXZlbnQgY29udGVuaXIgZGVzIGluZm9y bWF0aW9ucyBjb25maWRlbnRpZWxsZXMgb3UgcHJpdmlsZWdpZWVzIGV0IG5lIGRvaXZlbnQgZG9u YyBwYXMgZXRyZSBkaWZmdXNlcywgZXhwbG9pdGVzIG91IGNvcGllcyBzYW5zIGF1dG9yaXNhdGlv bi4gU2kgdm91cyBhdmV6IHJlY3UgY2UgbWVzc2FnZSBwYXIgZXJyZXVyLCB2ZXVpbGxleiBsZSBz aWduYWxlciBhIGwnZXhwZWRpdGV1ciBldCBsZSBkZXRydWlyZSBhaW5zaSBxdWUgbGVzIHBpZWNl cyBqb2ludGVzLiBMZXMgbWVzc2FnZXMgZWxlY3Ryb25pcXVlcyBldGFudCBzdXNjZXB0aWJsZXMg ZCdhbHRlcmF0aW9uLCBPcmFuZ2UgZGVjbGluZSB0b3V0ZSByZXNwb25zYWJpbGl0ZSBzaSBjZSBt ZXNzYWdlIGEgZXRlIGFsdGVyZSwgZGVmb3JtZSBvdSBmYWxzaWZpZS4gTWVyY2kuDQoNClRoaXMg bWVzc2FnZSBhbmQgaXRzIGF0dGFjaG1lbnRzIG1heSBjb250YWluIGNvbmZpZGVudGlhbCBvciBw cml2aWxlZ2VkIGluZm9ybWF0aW9uIHRoYXQgbWF5IGJlIHByb3RlY3RlZCBieSBsYXc7IHRoZXkg c2hvdWxkIG5vdCBiZSBkaXN0cmlidXRlZCwgdXNlZCBvciBjb3BpZWQgd2l0aG91dCBhdXRob3Jp c2F0aW9uLg0KSWYgeW91IGhhdmUgcmVjZWl2ZWQgdGhpcyBlbWFpbCBpbiBlcnJvciwgcGxlYXNl IG5vdGlmeSB0aGUgc2VuZGVyIGFuZCBkZWxldGUgdGhpcyBtZXNzYWdlIGFuZCBpdHMgYXR0YWNo bWVudHMuDQpBcyBlbWFpbHMgbWF5IGJlIGFsdGVyZWQsIE9yYW5nZSBpcyBub3QgbGlhYmxlIGZv ciBtZXNzYWdlcyB0aGF0IGhhdmUgYmVlbiBtb2RpZmllZCwgY2hhbmdlZCBvciBmYWxzaWZpZWQu DQpUaGFuayB5b3UuDQoNCl9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fDQpzcHJpbmcgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQpzcHJpbmdAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCmh0dHBzOi8vd3d3 LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vc3ByaW5nDQo= From nobody Thu Dec 19 19:51:54 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B53312006F; 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Fri, 20 Dec 2019 03:51:48 +0000 Received: from lhreml702-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.51) by lhreml702-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.51) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1713.5; Fri, 20 Dec 2019 03:51:48 +0000 Received: from DGGEML406-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.3.17.50) by lhreml702-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.51) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_0, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA_P256) id 15.1.1713.5 via Frontend Transport; Fri, 20 Dec 2019 03:51:48 +0000 Received: from DGGEML532-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.8.131]) by dggeml406-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.3.17.50]) with mapi id 14.03.0439.000; Fri, 20 Dec 2019 11:51:42 +0800 From: "Pengshuping (Peng Shuping)" To: "bruno.decraene@orange.com" , "draft-voyer-spring-sr-replication-segment@ietf.org" CC: spring Thread-Topic: IPR Poll: draft-voyer-spring-sr-replication-segment Thread-Index: AdWZercV+XdEVZ/yTWOOVJruoYO+Wgdbd4Tg Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2019 03:51:42 +0000 Message-ID: <4278D47A901B3041A737953BAA078ADE14BA532B@DGGEML532-MBX.china.huawei.com> References: <1416_1573578258_5DCAE612_1416_318_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48C98379@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: <1416_1573578258_5DCAE612_1416_318_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48C98379@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.108.203.165] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_4278D47A901B3041A737953BAA078ADE14BA532BDGGEML532MBXchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: [spring] =?gb2312?b?tPC4tDogSVBSIFBvbGw6IGRyYWZ0LXZveWVyLXNwcmlu?= =?gb2312?b?Zy1zci1yZXBsaWNhdGlvbi1zZWdtZW50?= X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2019 03:51:53 -0000 --_000_4278D47A901B3041A737953BAA078ADE14BA532BDGGEML532MBXchi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGkgYWxsLA0KDQpBIHJlbWluZGVyIGZvciB0aGlzIElQUiBQb2xsLg0KDQpUaGUgbWlzc2luZyBh dXRob3JzOiBSLiBQYXJla2gsIFouIFpoYW5nDQpUaGUgbWlzc2luZyBjb250cmlidXRvcnM6IEt1 cnRpcyBHaWxsaXMNCg0KUGxlYXNlIGxldCBtZSBrbm93IGlmIHlvdSBoYXZlIGFscmVhZHkgcmVw bGllZC4gVGhhbmsgeW91IQ0KDQpCZXN0IHJlZ2FyZHMsDQpTaHVwaW5nDQoNCg0Kt6K8/sjLOiBz cHJpbmcgW21haWx0bzpzcHJpbmctYm91bmNlc0BpZXRmLm9yZ10gtPqx7SBicnVuby5kZWNyYWVu ZUBvcmFuZ2UuY29tDQq3osvNyrG85DogMjAxOcTqMTHUwjEzyNUgMTowNA0KytW8/sjLOiBkcmFm dC12b3llci1zcHJpbmctc3ItcmVwbGljYXRpb24tc2VnbWVudEBpZXRmLm9yZw0Ks63LzTogc3By aW5nIDxzcHJpbmdAaWV0Zi5vcmc+DQrW98ziOiBbc3ByaW5nXSBJUFIgUG9sbDogZHJhZnQtdm95 ZXItc3ByaW5nLXNyLXJlcGxpY2F0aW9uLXNlZ21lbnQNCg0KSGkgQXV0aG9ycywgU1BSSU5HIFdH LA0KDQpBdXRob3JzIG9mIGRyYWZ0LXZveWVyLXNwcmluZy1zci1yZXBsaWNhdGlvbi1zZWdtZW50 IFsxXSBoYXZlIGFza2VkIGZvciBXRyBhZG9wdGlvbi4NCkJlZm9yZSB0aGUgY2FsbCBmb3Igd29y a2luZyBncm91cCBhZG9wdGlvbiB3ZSB3b3VsZCBsaWtlIHRvIHBvbGwgZm9yIElQUi4NCg0KSWYg eW91IGFyZSBhd2FyZSBvZiBJUFIgdGhhdCBhcHBsaWVzIHRvIGRyYWZ0LXZveWVyLXNwcmluZy1z ci1yZXBsaWNhdGlvbi1zZWdtZW50IHBsZWFzZSByZXNwb25kIHRvIHRoaXMgZW1haWwuDQpJZiB5 b3UgYXJlIGF3YXJlIG9mIElQUiwgcGxlYXNlIGluZGljYXRlIHdoZXRoZXIgaXQgaGFzIGJlZW4g ZGlzY2xvc2VkIGluDQphY2NvcmRhbmNlIHRvIHRoZSBJRVRGIElQUiBydWxlcyAoZGV0YWlsZWQg YXJlIGRlc2NyaWJlZCBpbiBSRkNzIDM5NzksIDQ4NzksIDM2NjkgYW5kIDUzNzgpLg0KDQpJZiB5 b3UgYXJlIGFuICphdXRob3Igb3IgY29udHJpYnV0b3IqIHBsZWFzZSByZXNwb25kIHRvIHRoaXMg ZW1haWwsIG9uIHRoZSBTUFJJTkcgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0LA0KcmVnYXJkbGVzcyBvZiB3aGV0aGVy IG9yIG5vdCB5b3UncmUgYXdhcmUgb2YgYW55IElQUi4gSWYgeW91IGFyZSBub3QgYW4NCmF1dGhv ciBvciBjb250cmlidXRvciwgcGxlYXNlIGV4cGxpY2l0bHkgcmVzcG9uZCBvbmx5IGlmIHlvdSdy ZSBhd2FyZSBvZg0KSVBSIHRoYXQgaGFzIG5vdCB5ZXQgYmVlbiBkaXNjbG9zZWQuDQoNClRoaXMg ZG9jdW1lbnQgd2lsbCBub3QgYWR2YW5jZSBpbnRvIHRoZSB3b3JraW5nIGdyb3VwIHVudGlsIHN1 Y2ggdGltZSBhcw0Kd2UgaGF2ZSByZWNlaXZlZCBJUFIgY29uZmlybWF0aW9ucyBmcm9tIGFsbCBh dXRob3JzIGFuZCBjb250cmlidXRvcnMuDQoNClRoYW5rcyENCg0KUm9iICYgQnJ1bm8NCg0KDQpb MV0gaHR0cHM6Ly90b29scy5pZXRmLm9yZy9odG1sL2RyYWZ0LXZveWVyLXNwcmluZy1zci1yZXBs aWNhdGlvbi1zZWdtZW50LTAwDQoNCg0KX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KDQoNCg0KQ2UgbWVzc2FnZSBldCBzZXMg cGllY2VzIGpvaW50ZXMgcGV1dmVudCBjb250ZW5pciBkZXMgaW5mb3JtYXRpb25zIGNvbmZpZGVu dGllbGxlcyBvdSBwcml2aWxlZ2llZXMgZXQgbmUgZG9pdmVudCBkb25jDQoNCnBhcyBldHJlIGRp ZmZ1c2VzLCBleHBsb2l0ZXMgb3UgY29waWVzIHNhbnMgYXV0b3Jpc2F0aW9uLiBTaSB2b3VzIGF2 ZXogcmVjdSBjZSBtZXNzYWdlIHBhciBlcnJldXIsIHZldWlsbGV6IGxlIHNpZ25hbGVyDQoNCmEg bCdleHBlZGl0ZXVyIGV0IGxlIGRldHJ1aXJlIGFpbnNpIHF1ZSBsZXMgcGllY2VzIGpvaW50ZXMu IExlcyBtZXNzYWdlcyBlbGVjdHJvbmlxdWVzIGV0YW50IHN1c2NlcHRpYmxlcyBkJ2FsdGVyYXRp b24sDQoNCk9yYW5nZSBkZWNsaW5lIHRvdXRlIHJlc3BvbnNhYmlsaXRlIHNpIGNlIG1lc3NhZ2Ug YSBldGUgYWx0ZXJlLCBkZWZvcm1lIG91IGZhbHNpZmllLiBNZXJjaS4NCg0KDQoNClRoaXMgbWVz c2FnZSBhbmQgaXRzIGF0dGFjaG1lbnRzIG1heSBjb250YWluIGNvbmZpZGVudGlhbCBvciBwcml2 aWxlZ2VkIGluZm9ybWF0aW9uIHRoYXQgbWF5IGJlIHByb3RlY3RlZCBieSBsYXc7DQoNCnRoZXkg c2hvdWxkIG5vdCBiZSBkaXN0cmlidXRlZCwgdXNlZCBvciBjb3BpZWQgd2l0aG91dCBhdXRob3Jp c2F0aW9uLg0KDQpJZiB5b3UgaGF2ZSByZWNlaXZlZCB0aGlzIGVtYWlsIGluIGVycm9yLCBwbGVh c2Ugbm90aWZ5IHRoZSBzZW5kZXIgYW5kIGRlbGV0ZSB0aGlzIG1lc3NhZ2UgYW5kIGl0cyBhdHRh Y2htZW50cy4NCg0KQXMgZW1haWxzIG1heSBiZSBhbHRlcmVkLCBPcmFuZ2UgaXMgbm90IGxpYWJs ZSBmb3IgbWVzc2FnZXMgdGhhdCBoYXZlIGJlZW4gbW9kaWZpZWQsIGNoYW5nZWQgb3IgZmFsc2lm aWVkLg0KDQpUaGFuayB5b3UuDQo= --_000_4278D47A901B3041A737953BAA078ADE14BA532BDGGEML532MBXchi_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi all,

 

A reminder for this IPR Poll.

 

The missing authors: R. Parekh, Z. Zha= ng

The missing contributors: Kurtis Gilli= s

 

Please let me know if you have already= replied. Thank you!

 

Best regards,

Shuping

 

 

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: spring [mailto:spring-bounces@ietf.org] =B4=FA=B1=ED bruno.decraene@orang= e.com
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2019= =C4=EA11=D4= =C213=C8=D5 1:04
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: draft-voyer-spring-sr-replication-segment@ietf.org
=B3=AD=CB=CD: spring <spring@ietf.org>
=D6=F7=CC=E2: [spring] IPR Poll: draft-voyer-spring-sr-replication-segment

 

Hi Authors, SPRING = WG,

 

Authors of draft-vo= yer-spring-sr-replication-segment [1] have asked for WG adoption.

Before the call for= working group adoption we would like to poll for IPR.

 

If you are aware of= IPR that applies to draft-voyer-spring-sr-replication-segment please = respond to this email.

If you are aware of= IPR, please indicate whether it has been disclosed in

accordance to the I= ETF IPR rules (detailed are described in RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378).

 

If you are an *auth= or or contributor* please respond to this email, on the SPRING mailing= list,

regardless of wheth= er or not you're aware of any IPR. If you are not an

author or contribut= or, please explicitly respond only if you're aware of

IPR that has not ye= t been disclosed.

 

This document will = not advance into the working group until such time as

we have received IP= R confirmations from all authors and contributors.

 

Thanks!

 

Rob & Bruno

 

 

[1] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-voyer-spring-sr-replication-segment-00

 

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Dear All,

Resource awareness seg= ment routing is essential for enhanced VPN.  This feature also enriche= s SPRING by taking the resource of each hop enroute into account when doing= the source routing.
Hope all the comments and suggestions are in= corporated in this version. As a co-author I believe it is ready for WG ado= ption call.
=0A=

Best Regards,
Zhenqiang Li
=0A=
li_zhenqiang@hotmail.com
=0A=
 
Date:&nbs= p;2019-12-16 18:36
Subject:=  [spring] Update and request to adopt draft-dong-spring-sr-for-enhance= d-vpn
Dear WG,
=0A=
 
=0A=
We just submitted a new revision of draft-dong-spring-sr-for-enhanced-= vpn to solve the comments and suggestions received both during IETF106 and = on the mail list.
=0A=
 
=0A=
The major changes are:
=0A=
 
=0A=
1. Following the chairs' suggestion, we reduced the description about = network slicing and enhanced VPN service from the abstract, introduction an= d the following sections, so that it mainly focuses on the SR based data pl= ane mechanism, use case and procedures.
=0A=
 
=0A=
2. Solve the comments received from Sasha (thanks again).
=0A=
 
=0A=
3. Some editorial changes.
=0A=
 
=0A=
After this update, this document describes a generic mechanism to enha= nce SR with resource awareness, and the major content of the document has b= een stable. Thus the co-authors believe it is ready for SPRING WG to adopt = it, and would like to solicit to initiate the adoption poll on this documen= t. Thanks.
=0A=
 
=0A=
Best regards,
=0A=
Jie
=0A=
 
=0A=
-----Original Message-----
=0A=
From: internet-drafts@ietf.org [mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org] =0A=
Sent: Monday, December 16, 2019 5:13 PM
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To: Takuya Miyasaka <ta-miyasaka@kddi.com>; Zhenqiang Li <li_= zhenqiang@hotmail.com>; Fengwei Qin <qinfengwei@chinamobile.com>; = Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>; Yongqing Zhu <zhuyq.gd@= chinatelecom.cn>; Dongjie (Jimmy) <jie.dong@huawei.com>
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Subject: New Version Notification for draft-dong-spring-sr-for-enhance= d-vpn-06.txt
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A new version of I-D, draft-dong-spring-sr-for-enhanced-vpn-06.txt=0A=
has been successfully submitted by Jie Dong and posted to the IETF rep= ository.
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Name: draft-dong-spring-sr-for-enhanced-vpn
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Revision: 06
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Title: Segment Routing for Resource Partitioned Virtual Networks=0A=
Document date: 2019-12-16
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Group: Individual Submission
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Pages: 18
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URL:           = https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-dong-spring-sr-for-enhanced-vpn= -06.txt
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Status:         https://datatr= acker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dong-spring-sr-for-enhanced-vpn/
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Htmlized:       https://tools.ietf.org/h= tml/draft-dong-spring-sr-for-enhanced-vpn-06
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Htmlized:       https://datatracker.ietf= .org/doc/html/draft-dong-spring-sr-for-enhanced-vpn
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Diff:           http= s://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-dong-spring-sr-for-enhanced-vpn-06=0A=
 
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Abstract:
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   This document describes the mechanism to associate Segmen= t Routing
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   Identifiers (SIDs) with network resource attributes. = ; The resource-
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   aware SIDs retain their original functionality, with the = additional
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   semantics of identifying the set of network resources ava= ilable for
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   the packet processing action.  These SIDs can be use= d to build SID
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   lists with reserved network resources, which can be used = for many
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   network scenarios.  One typical use case is to provi= de SR virtual
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   networks with required network topology and resource attr= ibutes.  The
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   proposed mechanism is applicable to both segment routing = with MPLS
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   data plane (SR-MPLS) and segment routing with IPv6 data p= lane (SRv6).
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           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;      
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Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of subm= ission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.=
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The IETF Secretariat
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_______________________________________________
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spring mailing list
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spring@ietf.org
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https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
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=0A= = ------=_001_NextPart638112861148_=------ From nobody Thu Dec 19 21:10:35 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62BF81207FD for ; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 21:10:32 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AFaBxEwG5SyV for ; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 21:10:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from eu-smtp-delivery-182.mimecast.com (eu-smtp-delivery-182.mimecast.com [207.82.80.182]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4B5EB120045 for ; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 21:10:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from EUR01-VE1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-ve1eur01lp2054.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.1.54]) (Using TLS) by relay.mimecast.com with ESMTP id uk-mta-248-E7ewBjaQOqi5Os5C0DXn0w-1; Fri, 20 Dec 2019 05:10:21 +0000 Received: from DBBPR03MB5415.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com (20.179.47.79) by DBBPR03MB5334.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com (20.179.46.142) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.2559.14; Fri, 20 Dec 2019 05:10:19 +0000 Received: from DBBPR03MB5415.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::f4ba:55b5:8f6c:5256]) by DBBPR03MB5415.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::f4ba:55b5:8f6c:5256%5]) with mapi id 15.20.2559.015; Fri, 20 Dec 2019 05:10:18 +0000 From: Andrew Alston To: "Darren Dukes (ddukes)" CC: Alexandre Petrescu , SPRING WG email list Thread-Topic: [spring] packet captures for draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-06? 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APjAAAUAVxjSB3O1kkLcgQbGKF18nEnzVbEukAEsxQ+Nlbt3goYVNKvd RQNebwbF+/TVSczREGWC9Of8rETvEX0u8CAzLC4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxNVYb0cBlkLZnxrrLUyMmMb0Vj7bCSZtlYKYuil5+1cIJ0Dbn1lW9LDsqnZjQwNQA3z9wCKqQ1KGuFkqAdU8o= X-Received: by 2002:a5d:6b47:: with SMTP id x7mr13139502wrw.277.1576820124335; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 21:35:24 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <1416_1573578258_5DCAE612_1416_318_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48C98379@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <4278D47A901B3041A737953BAA078ADE14BA532B@DGGEML532-MBX.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <4278D47A901B3041A737953BAA078ADE14BA532B@DGGEML532-MBX.china.huawei.com> From: Rishabh Parekh Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2019 21:35:11 -0800 Message-ID: To: "Pengshuping (Peng Shuping)" Cc: "bruno.decraene@orange.com" , "draft-voyer-spring-sr-replication-segment@ietf.org" , spring Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiBJUFIgUG9sbDogZHJhZnQtdm95ZXItc3By?= =?utf-8?q?ing-sr-replication-segment?= X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2019 05:35:31 -0000 Shuping, I had replied on 13th Nov. https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/1Bi0X0AQgvdRFcFyoubQla7Vjto -Rishabh Parekh On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 7:52 PM Pengshuping (Peng Shuping) wrote: > > Hi all, > > > > A reminder for this IPR Poll. > > > > The missing authors: R. Parekh, Z. Zhang > > The missing contributors: Kurtis Gillis > > > > Please let me know if you have already replied. Thank you! > > > > Best regards, > > Shuping > > > > > > =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: spring [mailto:spring-bounces@ietf.org] =E4= =BB=A3=E8=A1=A8 bruno.decraene@orange.com > =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2019=E5=B9=B411=E6=9C=8813=E6=97=A5= 1:04 > =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: draft-voyer-spring-sr-replication-segment@ie= tf.org > =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: spring > =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: [spring] IPR Poll: draft-voyer-spring-sr-replication-= segment > > > > Hi Authors, SPRING WG, > > > > Authors of draft-voyer-spring-sr-replication-segment [1] have asked for W= G adoption. > > Before the call for working group adoption we would like to poll for IPR. > > > > If you are aware of IPR that applies to draft-voyer-spring-sr-replication= -segment please respond to this email. > > If you are aware of IPR, please indicate whether it has been disclosed in > > accordance to the IETF IPR rules (detailed are described in RFCs 3979, 48= 79, 3669 and 5378). > > > > If you are an *author or contributor* please respond to this email, on th= e SPRING mailing list, > > regardless of whether or not you're aware of any IPR. If you are not an > > author or contributor, please explicitly respond only if you're aware of > > IPR that has not yet been disclosed. > > > > This document will not advance into the working group until such time as > > we have received IPR confirmations from all authors and contributors. > > > > Thanks! > > > > Rob & Bruno > > > > > > [1] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-voyer-spring-sr-replication-segment= -00 > > > > _________________________________________________________________________= ________________________________________________ > > > > Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confid= entielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc > > pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez re= cu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler > > a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages = electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, > > Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme o= u falsifie. Merci. > > > > This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged i= nformation that may be protected by law; > > they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. > > If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and de= lete this message and its attachments. > > As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have bee= n modified, changed or falsified. > > Thank you. > > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring From nobody Thu Dec 19 21:45:59 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26079120840; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 21:45:57 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pKeKAFIpEa1C; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 21:45:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wm1-x32c.google.com (mail-wm1-x32c.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::32c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D3ECD120819; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 21:45:54 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wm1-x32c.google.com with SMTP id p9so7672427wmc.2; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 21:45:54 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=xRXouPZFwA6jTQRP7C0/mahY7sEuLlt+E851xo36Lrk=; b=qKxfxrvwSLyvGW6JaB0U3k2UFGjE41/8ljUH/HTAVWzc8G/ykVAzGavXuNLIefIIW9 c4NbxNTCJzNQ1M9V00HaRMDpvJ0z4sdAp7l0EVI7wPxlXIDlDJkNE89z4istti2BVOm+ Krxc/v05iZpaOwz0ZcSF51GyBGngPjRdaJbu1HSKdtcI3SRFyD++8B1c+t1npEdBqRsc mtQqM8TAU86pXzC1es1RMvmsuOXWNTVI5WbtsWHrMfxnHvhTifhps4lYMMr5KuO6av8c 1ezPYbSLUjQRV4dEkzp0Ku1mh0oiK51OHLM6lEr0IkmKjRmF20gHWWBQt7H62VxE3gEE DeUg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=xRXouPZFwA6jTQRP7C0/mahY7sEuLlt+E851xo36Lrk=; b=rsA226INY6LQrWcnCynqIrJMVgKOpB93l2Hlfo+I78V5qyoNhr28rQNJECflGznp6Q LaJMmf1Zvoc9S4+QjHpMWFKRMb6ex723dobhjMemEJiYuU5ZZVb3APmVIUxOL//YPwH7 AWQq24nnoiE6j2/hHSA4CEXvOczVQ/07kjh0SSdFfu8k5oz+Fnkd5K3P8ta69rzyeOUR TtFcgxdcOpfFL4J4dl3BIv7on8G/dhvRfGfEFr/Fzx8sSjH9WcoI/Ij3yGtlzaArO+kS mirRSHYgV9X5QX6r96v9SWR6efO578+x7VqpxynxaV5JMxEfGigStPHaIzp7VQzrqB/k lPCA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAX/iUdnijhRNsNxMZjgPnigyGXRtHKMB+XESd6LJHW0wozKSfju x+SOv0NXiEuteE9R0crdVEBH/CORosjmRRNRj10= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwB0WhsNvyzPrMCHqeTTcn6gOa0ediuU+VoBwrI+liZGxSk261IH/o2o1aeuEpZ8hgwiJITJMrWGaNmCzfPpPs= X-Received: by 2002:a05:600c:10cd:: with SMTP id l13mr14836742wmd.102.1576820753281; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 21:45:53 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <1416_1573578258_5DCAE612_1416_318_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48C98379@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <4278D47A901B3041A737953BAA078ADE14BA532B@DGGEML532-MBX.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <4278D47A901B3041A737953BAA078ADE14BA532B@DGGEML532-MBX.china.huawei.com> From: Rishabh Parekh Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2019 21:45:42 -0800 Message-ID: To: "Pengshuping (Peng Shuping)" Cc: "bruno.decraene@orange.com" , "draft-voyer-spring-sr-replication-segment@ietf.org" , spring Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiBJUFIgUG9sbDogZHJhZnQtdm95ZXItc3By?= =?utf-8?q?ing-sr-replication-segment?= X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2019 05:45:57 -0000 Shuping, Jeffrey Zhang has also replied on 13th Nov. https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/bxoZuvyAY7X_roxnOULvqc1Dd-Q -Rishabh On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 7:52 PM Pengshuping (Peng Shuping) wrote: > > Hi all, > > > > A reminder for this IPR Poll. > > > > The missing authors: R. Parekh, Z. Zhang > > The missing contributors: Kurtis Gillis > > > > Please let me know if you have already replied. Thank you! > > > > Best regards, > > Shuping > > > > > > =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: spring [mailto:spring-bounces@ietf.org] =E4= =BB=A3=E8=A1=A8 bruno.decraene@orange.com > =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2019=E5=B9=B411=E6=9C=8813=E6=97=A5= 1:04 > =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: draft-voyer-spring-sr-replication-segment@ie= tf.org > =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: spring > =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: [spring] IPR Poll: draft-voyer-spring-sr-replication-= segment > > > > Hi Authors, SPRING WG, > > > > Authors of draft-voyer-spring-sr-replication-segment [1] have asked for W= G adoption. > > Before the call for working group adoption we would like to poll for IPR. > > > > If you are aware of IPR that applies to draft-voyer-spring-sr-replication= -segment please respond to this email. > > If you are aware of IPR, please indicate whether it has been disclosed in > > accordance to the IETF IPR rules (detailed are described in RFCs 3979, 48= 79, 3669 and 5378). > > > > If you are an *author or contributor* please respond to this email, on th= e SPRING mailing list, > > regardless of whether or not you're aware of any IPR. If you are not an > > author or contributor, please explicitly respond only if you're aware of > > IPR that has not yet been disclosed. > > > > This document will not advance into the working group until such time as > > we have received IPR confirmations from all authors and contributors. > > > > Thanks! > > > > Rob & Bruno > > > > > > [1] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-voyer-spring-sr-replication-segment= -00 > > > > _________________________________________________________________________= ________________________________________________ > > > > Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confid= entielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc > > pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez re= cu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler > > a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages = electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, > > Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme o= u falsifie. Merci. > > > > This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged i= nformation that may be protected by law; > > they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. > > If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and de= lete this message and its attachments. > > As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have bee= n modified, changed or falsified. > > Thank you. > > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring From nobody Thu Dec 19 22:12:21 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 596D1120043; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 22:12:19 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 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lhreml722-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.73) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256) id 15.1.1713.5; Fri, 20 Dec 2019 06:12:11 +0000 Received: from DGGEML405-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.3.17.49) by lhreml722-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.73) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_0, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA) id 15.1.1713.5 via Frontend Transport; Fri, 20 Dec 2019 06:12:10 +0000 Received: from DGGEML532-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.8.131]) by dggeml405-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.3.17.49]) with mapi id 14.03.0439.000; Fri, 20 Dec 2019 14:12:03 +0800 From: "Pengshuping (Peng Shuping)" To: Rishabh Parekh CC: "bruno.decraene@orange.com" , "draft-voyer-spring-sr-replication-segment@ietf.org" , spring Thread-Topic: =?utf-8?B?W3NwcmluZ10g562U5aSNOiBJUFIgUG9sbDogZHJhZnQtdm95ZXItc3ByaW5n?= =?utf-8?Q?-sr-replication-segment?= Thread-Index: AdWZercV+XdEVZ/yTWOOVJruoYO+Wgdbd4Tg//+aJwD//3LPEA== Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2019 06:12:03 +0000 Message-ID: <4278D47A901B3041A737953BAA078ADE14BA7142@DGGEML532-MBX.china.huawei.com> References: <1416_1573578258_5DCAE612_1416_318_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48C98379@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <4278D47A901B3041A737953BAA078ADE14BA532B@DGGEML532-MBX.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.108.203.165] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: [spring] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiAg562U5aSNOiBJUFIgUG9sbDogZHJhZnQt?= =?utf-8?q?voyer-spring-sr-replication-segment?= X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2019 06:12:19 -0000 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<3A12D735-7899-4679-8FC8-DF8875D40A62@cisco.com> <628e5dfb-7ba4-d841-ebeb-cfc52d7294f1@gmail.com> <49b7e45f-a26f-cf4a-f8be-9aa917c34203@gmail.com> <0f492db1-d168-473c-8447-9e08d51c2039@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <0f492db1-d168-473c-8447-9e08d51c2039@gmail.com> From: Gyan Mishra Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2019 01:22:15 -0500 Message-ID: To: Brian E Carpenter Cc: "Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)" , Robert Raszuk , "spring@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000009c0800059a1cb387" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] I-D Action: draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-06.txt X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2019 06:22:30 -0000 --0000000000009c0800059a1cb387 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 8:45 PM Brian E Carpenter < brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> wrote: > On 20-Dec-19 12:01, Robert Raszuk wrote: > >> And where is it forwarded to, since we are already at the DA? > > > > PSP operates at the n-1 segment end of the SR path so naturally after > swapping DA it is forwarded to the segment end. Note that we are all alon= g > operating on the encapsulated header ... original packet including its > original IPv6 header is sitting as passenger here. > > > > So last segment here will received encapsulated IPv6 packet will > decapsulate it and fwd based on the original DA. > > > > Seems very simple :) > > Right, but the language in the PSP sub-section does not talk about > decapsulation. I think the root problem may be using the word "pop", whic= h > is relevant in the MPLS label stack context but not here, without > additional definition. > [Gyan] I agree with what Brian is saying that pop in MPLS PHP or UHP you are popping an MPLS label 4 byte shim, where here you are removing the SRH header. Not a really a pop. The MPLS shim is an encapsulation since it=E2= =80=99s sits between the L2 and L3 header. I think if we fix the verbiage and change from pop to remove we may want to come up with some other name like PSR & USR if =E2=80=9Cremove=E2=80=9D was used. > > Brian > > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > --=20 Gyan S. Mishra IT Network Engineering & Technology Verizon Communications Inc. (VZ) 13101 Columbia Pike FDC1 3rd Floor Silver Spring, MD 20904 United States Phone: 301 502-1347 Email: gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies-consultant --0000000000009c0800059a1cb387 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 8:45 PM Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com&g= t; wrote:
On 20-Dec-19 12:01, Rober= t Raszuk wrote:
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0And where is it forwarded to, since we are already at = the DA?
>
> PSP operates at the n-1 segment end of the SR path so naturally after = swapping DA it is forwarded to the segment end. Note that we are all along = operating on the encapsulated header ... original packet including its orig= inal IPv6 header is sitting as passenger here.=C2=A0
>
> So last segment here will received encapsulated IPv6 packet will decap= sulate it and fwd based on the original DA.=C2=A0
>
> Seems very simple :)=C2=A0

Right, but the language in the PSP sub-section does not talk about decapsul= ation. I think the root problem may be using the word "pop", whic= h is relevant in the MPLS label stack context but not here, without additio= nal definition.

=C2=A0 [Gyan] I = agree with what Brian is saying that pop in MPLS PHP or UHP you are popping= an MPLS label 4 byte shim, where here you are removing the SRH header.=C2= =A0 Not a really a pop.=C2=A0 The MPLS shim is an encapsulation since it=E2= =80=99s sits between the L2 and L3 header.=C2=A0 I think if we fix the verb= iage and change from pop to remove we may want to come up with some other n= ame like PSR & USR if =E2=80=9Cremove=E2=80=9D was used.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Brian

_______________________________________________
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spring@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
--
<= div dir=3D"ltr">

Gyan S. Mishra

IT Networ= k Engineering & Technology=C2=A0=

Verizon Communications=C2=A0Inc. (VZ)=

13101 Columbia Pike FDC1 3rd Floor

=

Silver Spring, MD 20904

United States<= span style=3D"color:rgb(80,0,80);background-image:initial;background-positi= on:initial;background-repeat:initial">

Phone:=C2=A0301 502-1347

Email:=C2=A0gyan.s.mishra@verizon.= com

www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies-co= nsultant


--0000000000009c0800059a1cb387-- From nobody Thu Dec 19 23:21:50 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC548120129 for ; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 23:21:48 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.997 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.997 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id s15Y8naVma-V for ; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 23:21:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-io1-xd2c.google.com (mail-io1-xd2c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d2c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0C28012006E for ; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 23:21:47 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-io1-xd2c.google.com with SMTP id r13so8420468ioa.3 for ; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 23:21:47 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=kM7lIGcCdaDiaTUQ5p/tph3+dQMimL+nVJFJyh31hQI=; b=NhrsJOjEvH53NubNsCtP8UKE0BRcVETHEvBK5R26LQXX94AaZvqAI2O76QxVm0lMES m3HUem8vUhJnxV0oG2cqiT6uU+sar6T1YJpvSjUiTQD07l0wL1FpVv61wHjR+eNUyRqX dQX3HCOLvWr8wCNQRryn2Kz3spGrXl2vTLr3f5Sq2NVHJHy8a5WbScmXNOSA1ShwsxXj xfhOJLyDby+6qzL64nC1wAgKDKyoj8bEC18Ubmv7ghoD71cTpoCkXZQm/1XDy1eRfvor xEc6jgQWcKJHQEFwvyjgTEhI2pasTum7KwUuwaJ5zDHk5pjytdcPHvhfzzNjy/zED6i5 hPXg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=kM7lIGcCdaDiaTUQ5p/tph3+dQMimL+nVJFJyh31hQI=; b=UuBgug0DB63b7uskhhRNYpQ75gxJo8Q+N10kNDHdwCwmYbrw3L36WmuBKv8DZ3W2Ga m6H1DWMENeX7bbCdKhJd6/3MYmTy7FSxCoZ3d3AKRzexWG+5OmCyvlPPzq9XLlprqDw1 oUabiqiUts1yeRE11QhEpcdSJTZOnmKhDuzWWtkSDDvG9fBCfm3bC1ZAqNAeblY6efvK inHIWJKxdEKtLriiWQ1AguaLLFeqjBoe10gczBWIUFuQ6B1H5REIszfVIqriy7j9VR6s p0bI5+o5EqLwwyIwtoVXghmBU/U6LOsF0wkvsdeFFuU+W3IpNSjWnLQGbtM1dNPoVcVS DA+Q== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXLpE6BsDF3tkrUXS98O5cyfq4K9NOmHzoeae4o5nQ5pozh9NGV OydFXD46aUN9mGU/DBeevDgISQQ1jZ1EFmjTMgQPQYKf9Jo= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwvvri5xttF9vkmnn/iBsULvam3AJAfxckdla/Q1vT+qEqt61M/NqVfL+YPnRPbAvb/bfV/eB+Mx0FYqkuFrDs= X-Received: by 2002:a6b:ee07:: with SMTP id i7mr4260428ioh.78.1576826506220; Thu, 19 Dec 2019 23:21:46 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <157609408568.11496.11799785813274132900@ietfa.amsl.com> <4c762fc5-8a61-e182-a9cc-d45b0f586ccc@gmail.com> <3A12D735-7899-4679-8FC8-DF8875D40A62@cisco.com> <628e5dfb-7ba4-d841-ebeb-cfc52d7294f1@gmail.com> <49b7e45f-a26f-cf4a-f8be-9aa917c34203@gmail.com> <0f492db1-d168-473c-8447-9e08d51c2039@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: From: Gyan Mishra Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2019 02:21:35 -0500 Message-ID: To: Brian E Carpenter Cc: "Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)" , Robert Raszuk , "spring@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000c699f2059a1d874e" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] I-D Action: draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-06.txt X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2019 07:21:49 -0000 --000000000000c699f2059a1d874e Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Dec 20, 2019 at 1:22 AM Gyan Mishra wrote: > > > On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 8:45 PM Brian E Carpenter < > brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> wrote: > >> On 20-Dec-19 12:01, Robert Raszuk wrote: >> >> And where is it forwarded to, since we are already at the DA? >> > >> > PSP operates at the n-1 segment end of the SR path so naturally after >> swapping DA it is forwarded to the segment end. Note that we are all alo= ng >> operating on the encapsulated header ... original packet including its >> original IPv6 header is sitting as passenger here. >> > >> > So last segment here will received encapsulated IPv6 packet will >> decapsulate it and fwd based on the original DA. >> > >> > Seems very simple :) >> >> Right, but the language in the PSP sub-section does not talk about >> decapsulation. I think the root problem may be using the word "pop", whi= ch >> is relevant in the MPLS label stack context but not here, without >> additional definition. >> > > [Gyan] I agree with what Brian is saying that pop in MPLS PHP or UHP yo= u > are popping an MPLS label 4 byte shim, where here you are removing the SR= H > header. Not a really a pop. The MPLS shim is an encapsulation since it= =E2=80=99s > sits between the L2 and L3 header. I think if we fix the verbiage and > change from pop to remove we may want to come up with some other name lik= e > PSR & USR if =E2=80=9Cremove=E2=80=9D was used. > >> With both SRv6 and MPLS within their respective domains when the packet comes in from external to the domain on the PE-CE attachment circuit with MPLS the label 4 byte shim imposition or encapsulation happens on the PE upon forwarding on any MPLS enabled =E2=80=9Ccore=E2=80=9D interface PE= -P link. With SRv6 the 6in6 encapsulation occurs when a packet from the PE-CE attachment circuit originating from outside the SRv6 domain hits the SRv6 source node ingress PE which 6in6 encapsulates the packet from the CE and then adds the SRH header to source route the packet through the SRv6 domain. With mpls the label disposition happens with PHP on egress P penultimate node. So that de-encapsulation with SRv6 ends up mapping to USD end.x SID function where the original 6in6 encapsulation done on the SRv6 source node is now removed. So big difference here in nomenclature with PSP and USP removing SRH and not performing any de-encapsulation which is decoupled to a separate USD function. > >> Brian >> >> _______________________________________________ >> spring mailing list >> spring@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring >> > -- > > Gyan S. Mishra > > IT Network Engineering & Technology > > Verizon Communications Inc. (VZ) > > 13101 Columbia Pike FDC1 3rd Floor > > Silver Spring, MD 20904 > > United States > > Phone: 301 502-1347 > > Email: gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com > > www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies-consultant > > -- Gyan S. Mishra IT Network Engineering & Technology Verizon Communications Inc. (VZ) 13101 Columbia Pike FDC1 3rd Floor Silver Spring, MD 20904 United States Phone: 301 502-1347 Email: gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies-consultant --000000000000c699f2059a1d874e Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Fri, Dec 20, 2019 at 1:22 AM Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com> wrote:


On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 8:45 = PM Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> wrote:
On 20-Dec-19 12:01, Robert Raszuk wrote:
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0And where is it forwarded to, since we are already at = the DA?
>
> PSP operates at the n-1 segment end of the SR path so naturally after = swapping DA it is forwarded to the segment end. Note that we are all along = operating on the encapsulated header ... original packet including its orig= inal IPv6 header is sitting as passenger here.=C2=A0
>
> So last segment here will received encapsulated IPv6 packet will decap= sulate it and fwd based on the original DA.=C2=A0
>
> Seems very simple :)=C2=A0

Right, but the language in the PSP sub-section does not talk about decapsul= ation. I think the root problem may be using the word "pop", whic= h is relevant in the MPLS label stack context but not here, without additio= nal definition.

=C2=A0 [Gyan] I = agree with what Brian is saying that pop in MPLS PHP or UHP you are popping= an MPLS label 4 byte shim, where here you are removing the SRH header.=C2= =A0 Not a really a pop.=C2=A0 The MPLS shim is an encapsulation since it=E2= =80=99s sits between the L2 and L3 header.=C2=A0 I think if we fix the verb= iage and change from pop to remove we may want to come up with some other n= ame like PSR & USR if =E2=80=9Cremove=E2=80=9D was used.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 W= ith both SRv6 and MPLS within their respective domains when the packet come= s in from external to the domain on the PE-CE attachment circuit with MPLS = the label =C2=A04 byte shim imposition or encapsulation happens on the PE u= pon forwarding on any MPLS enabled =E2=80=9Ccore=E2=80=9D =C2=A0interface P= E-P link.=C2=A0 With SRv6 the 6in6 encapsulation occurs when a packet from = the PE-CE attachment circuit originating from outside the SRv6 domain hits = the SRv6 source node ingress PE which 6in6 encapsulates the packet from the= CE and then adds the SRH header to source route the packet through the SRv= 6 domain.=C2=A0 With mpls the label disposition happens with PHP on egress = P penultimate node.=C2=A0 So that de-encapsulation with SRv6 ends up mappin= g to USD end.x SID function where the original 6in6 encapsulation done on t= he SRv6 source node is now removed.=C2=A0 So big difference here in nomencl= ature with PSP and USP removing SRH and not performing any de-encapsulation= which is decoupled to a separate USD function.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Brian

_______________________________________________
spring mailing list
spring@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
--

Gyan S. Mishra

IT Network Engineering & Technology=C2=A0=

Verizon Communications=C2=A0Inc. (VZ)=

13101 Columbia Pike FDC1 3rd Floor

=

Silver Spring, MD 20904

United States<= span style=3D"color:rgb(80,0,80);background-image:initial;background-positi= on:initial;background-repeat:initial">

Phone:=C2=A0301 502-1347

Email:=C2=A0gyan.s.mishra@verizon.= com

www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies-co= nsultant


--
<= div dir=3D"ltr">

Gyan S. Mishra

IT Networ= k Engineering & Technology=C2=A0=

Verizon Communications=C2=A0Inc. (VZ)=

13101 Columbia Pike FDC1 3rd Floor

=

Silver Spring, MD 20904

United States<= span style=3D"color:rgb(80,0,80);background-image:initial;background-positi= on:initial;background-repeat:initial">

Phone:=C2=A0301 502-1347

Email:=C2=A0gyan.s.mishra@verizon.= com

www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies-co= nsultant


--000000000000c699f2059a1d874e-- From nobody Fri Dec 20 01:19:02 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDFD11201E4 for ; Fri, 20 Dec 2019 01:19:00 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=raszuk.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jshJDprmoy-W for ; Fri, 20 Dec 2019 01:18:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qk1-x72d.google.com (mail-qk1-x72d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::72d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DA22D12018B for ; Fri, 20 Dec 2019 01:18:58 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qk1-x72d.google.com with SMTP id r14so7042577qke.13 for ; Fri, 20 Dec 2019 01:18:58 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=raszuk.net; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=qriLDFFPtWhLf0ig8n+E5Ah9Ozyi4aOEYCQU69VWBTo=; b=F66BF0tcNGPDCR5zHwrdQN2agQ2dkhlYgS6njXOypjIh1mwHnXWdPfH6zHiFaahd8c wEWQZWlME7C4EwXgPUv3IE1oxb/u6zO6FXBiOnOwOWKrAKecL5WOv8O/E9qIVj84CVsS pD8ODkubPOAzZ3vcJvBqtZxCgVtKAt8YMg6+udqB3oEkBk75cnxZq7RVD2N3Aq/00LWc /jMez5VQeeyXdsiOa8mI+Ev/v1JSlyYLmeRvakNROsvZCCn4IZmuJoZb69HBFsZDEO71 TFP0U1LvkoOI3FMowpiQgoPGPFYGL8wv6gRfd9USW+6wEMbYjeWpgjR25CdKThpbAC9G vqbA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=qriLDFFPtWhLf0ig8n+E5Ah9Ozyi4aOEYCQU69VWBTo=; b=YwNFvemVHcRl0CYbXshgJZQkHWeiYny0WNqz+aCAC3rm5EbHXFdHfA2xFWkf+iwGEp goDZ2r4Vo8xauDysjXAi5jbRG608lECprJNoOq58tiSnIfpE+H8H6CIX7r4y9EX/cqqX 6a35nntheEfghGmIZISPFQv3TYGYiG/xphC0KRNXQxsv4faISGmqnsJxvmqX1aMyoGmd PyizqRs3xsNjC3nX0tvfvas97nwIt2xYXTTmaYy+AS5lQAELt+mgO27WzrywPXcMeYKS nXMq5g55Mrt/P1cjTUyFmxY+yX2ovdbL9vx71qj+/VK+udj/wSqvYB7mYn20wQE8BYQ3 Ut0A== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVa/tqxxp68Bi/zJqX8XHLwAkrsdfnNiabLC4KbI3be78383Vmq WKhs6PQ7WRKMz4nAYaNmjVJFj8stAE4UbguoXEQr9w== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzIx4Fpy6oY8SEPbISkCWuuR3gwO82UFp5ih1BAoazhDSpZPKgyWhtoOw01Iv53M1qLnlGMdV5OnPIeJ3jcFM0= X-Received: by 2002:a37:4ac6:: with SMTP id x189mr12090733qka.219.1576833537471; Fri, 20 Dec 2019 01:18:57 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <157609408568.11496.11799785813274132900@ietfa.amsl.com> <4c762fc5-8a61-e182-a9cc-d45b0f586ccc@gmail.com> <3A12D735-7899-4679-8FC8-DF8875D40A62@cisco.com> <628e5dfb-7ba4-d841-ebeb-cfc52d7294f1@gmail.com> <49b7e45f-a26f-cf4a-f8be-9aa917c34203@gmail.com> <0f492db1-d168-473c-8447-9e08d51c2039@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <0f492db1-d168-473c-8447-9e08d51c2039@gmail.com> From: Robert Raszuk Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2019 10:18:50 +0100 Message-ID: To: Brian E Carpenter Cc: "Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)" , "spring@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000df3a25059a1f2a74" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] I-D Action: draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-06.txt X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2019 09:19:01 -0000 --000000000000df3a25059a1f2a74 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Brian, Right, but the language in the PSP sub-section does not talk about > decapsulation. Sure as in a way there is no decapsulation there. This is Segment N-1 node not Final Segment End node. Of course the other way to look at this would be to conceptually describe this as decapsulation at *each* segment end point and on most just copy the SRH to a new IPv6 header and on PSP happening on Segment N-1 to not copy it. I think the root problem may be using the word "pop", which is relevant in > the MPLS label stack context but not here, without additional definition. Well I agree. "POP" does not sound like the best terminology choice here for SRH removal or deletion :). Now all what is needed for WG to convince Pablo for massive editing .... Happy Holidays, R. --000000000000df3a25059a1f2a74 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Brian,

Right, but the langua= ge in the PSP sub-section does not talk about decapsulation.
<= div>
Sure as in a way there is no decapsulation there. This i= s Segment N-1 node not Final Segment End node.=C2=A0

Of course the other way to look at this would be to conceptually describ= e this as decapsulation at *each* segment end point and on most just copy t= he SRH to a new IPv6 header and on PSP happening on Segment N-1 to not copy= it.=C2=A0

I think the root problem may be using the word "pop", which= is relevant in the MPLS label stack context but not here, without addition= al definition.

Well I agree. "POP"= ; does not sound like the best terminology choice here for SRH removal or d= eletion :). Now all what is needed for WG to convince Pablo for massive edi= ting ....=C2=A0

Happy Holidays,
R.
=
=C2=A0
--000000000000df3a25059a1f2a74-- From nobody Fri Dec 20 02:33:53 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C0531200F3 for ; Fri, 20 Dec 2019 02:33:51 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.307 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.307 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DATE_IN_PAST_03_06=1.592, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IJOKRLf5LELU for ; Fri, 20 Dec 2019 02:33:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from fgont.go6lab.si (fgont.go6lab.si [91.239.96.14]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3A510120882 for ; Fri, 20 Dec 2019 02:33:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.8] (unknown [181.113.146.253]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by fgont.go6lab.si (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4C20986A8D; Fri, 20 Dec 2019 11:33:45 +0100 (CET) To: Brian E Carpenter , Robert Raszuk Cc: "spring@ietf.org" , "Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)" References: <157609408568.11496.11799785813274132900@ietfa.amsl.com> <4c762fc5-8a61-e182-a9cc-d45b0f586ccc@gmail.com> <3A12D735-7899-4679-8FC8-DF8875D40A62@cisco.com> <628e5dfb-7ba4-d841-ebeb-cfc52d7294f1@gmail.com> <49b7e45f-a26f-cf4a-f8be-9aa917c34203@gmail.com> <0f492db1-d168-473c-8447-9e08d51c2039@gmail.com> From: Fernando Gont Autocrypt: addr=fernando@gont.com.ar; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBE5so2gBEACzBQBLUy8nzgAzSZn6ViXT6TmZBFNYNqTpPRvTVtUqF6+tkI+IEd9N2E8p pXUXCd0W4dkxz6o7pagnK63m4QSueggvp881RVVHOF8oTSHOdnGxLfLeLNJFKE1FOutU3vod GK/wG/Fwzkv9MebdXpMlLV8nnJuAt66XGl/lU1JrNfrKO4SoYQi4TsB/waUQcygh7OR/PEO0 EttiU8kZUbZNv58WH+PAj/rdZCrgUSiGXiWUQQKShqKnJxLuAcTcg5YRwL8se/V6ciW0QR9i /sr52gSmLLbW5N3hAoO+nv1V/9SjJAUvzXu43k8sua/XlCXkqU7uLj41CRR72JeUZ4DQsYfP LfNPC98ZGTVxbWbFtLXxpzzDDT8i3uo7w1LJ2Ij/d5ezcARqw01HGljWWxnidUrjbTpxkJ9X EllcsH94mer728j/HKzC9OcTuz6WUBP3Crgl6Q47gY5ZIiF0lsmd9/wxbaq5NiJ+lGuBRZrD v0dQx9KmyI0/pH2AF8cW897/6ypvcyD/1/11CJcN+uAGIrklwJlVpRSbKbFtGC6In592lhu7 wnK8cgyP5cTU+vva9+g6P1wehi4bylXdlKc6mMphbtSA+T3WBNP557+mh3L62l4pGaEGidcZ DLYT2Ud18eAJmxU3HnM8P3iZZgeoK7oqgb53/eg96vkONXNIOwARAQABtCVGZXJuYW5kbyBH b250IDxmZ29udEBzaTZuZXR3b3Jrcy5jb20+iQJBBBMBAgArAhsjBQkSzAMABgsJCAcDAgYV CAIJCgsEFgIDAQIeAQIXgAUCTmylpQIZAQAKCRCuJQ1VHU50kv7wD/9fuNtTfxSLk3B3Hs3p ixTy8YXVjdkVwWlnJjFd7BOWmg7sI+LDhpjGfT6+ddOiwkumnvUZpObodj4ysH0i8c7P4C5t F9yu7WjklSlrB5Rth2CGChg5bKt541z2WHkFFxys9qBLmCSYDeKQkzLqhCjIUJizY2kOJ2GI MnSFDzJjhSFEh//oW830Y8fel1xnf/NVF+lBVtRMtMOfoWUqDjvP3sJ1G4zgkDCnF0CfncLx +hq2Mv26Uq9OTzvLH9aSQQ/f067BOkKAJKsfHdborX4E96ISTz57/4xECRSMr5dVsKVm4Y// uVIsb+L5z+a32FaiBZIAKDgnJO7Z8j6CV5e5yfuBTtX52Yi9HjYYqnYJGSDxYd6igD4bWu+7 xmJPHjkdqZgGV6dQIgiUfqkU+s5Cv350vK48CMaT/ZLo2BdsMhWsmaHmb+waePUMyq6E4E9x 9Js+EJb9ZiCfxS9exgieZQpet1L36IvhiwByvkQM009ywfa30JeMOltUtfLi5V06WQWsTzPL 5C+4cpkguSuAJVDTctjCA0moIeVDOpJ8WH9voQ4IeWapQnX35OIoj1jGJqqYdx65gc1ygbyx b8vw+pJ9E5GLse5TQnYifOWpXzX9053dtbwp/2OVhU4KLlzfCPCEsoTyfu9nIZxdI2PMwiL5 M85BfjX4NmwBLmPGoLkCDQRObKNoARAAqqXCkr250BchRDmi+05F5UQFgylUh10XTAJxBeaQ UNtdxZiZRm6jgomSrqeYtricM9t9K0qb4X2ZXmAMW8o8AYW3RrQHTjcBwMnAKzUIEXXWaLfG cid/ygmvWzIHgMDQKP+MUq1AGQrnvt/MRLvZLyczAV1RTXS58qNaxtaSpc3K/yrDozh/a4pu WcUsVvIkzyx43sqcwamDSBb6U8JFoZizuLXiARLLASgyHrrCedNIZdWSx0z0iHEpZIelA2ih AGLiSMtmtikVEyrJICgO81DkKNCbBbPg+7fi23V6M24+3syHk3IdQibTtBMxinIPyLFF0byJ aGm0fmjefhnmVJyCIl/FDkCHprVhTme57G2/WdoGnUvnT7mcwDRb8XY5nNRkOJsqqLPemKjz kx8mXdQbunXtX9bKyVgd1gIl+LLsxbdzRCch773UBVoortPdK3kMyLtZ4uMeDX3comjx+6VL bztUdJ1Zc9/njwVG8fgmQ+0Kj5+bzQfUY+MmX0HTXIx3B4R1I1a8QoOwi1N+iZNdewV5Zfq+ 29NlQLnVPjCRCKbaz9k6RJ2oIti55YUI6zSsL3lmlOXsRbXN5bRswFczkNSCJxJMlDiyAUIC WOay7ymzvgzPa+BY/mYn94vRaurDQ4/ljOfj6oqgfjts+dJev4Jj89vp8MQI3KJpZPEAEQEA AYkCJQQYAQIADwUCTmyjaAIbDAUJEswDAAAKCRCuJQ1VHU50km4xEACho45PZrUjY4Zl2opR DFNo5a6roTOPpgwO9PcBb3I5F8yX2Dnew+9OhgWXbBhAFq4DCx+9Gjs43Bn60qbZTDbLGJ/m 8N4PwEiq0e5MKceYcbetEdEUWhm5L6psU9ZZ82GR3UGxPXYe+oifEoJjOXQ39avf9S8p3yKP Diil0E79rn7LbJjMcgMLyjFg9SDoJ6pHLtniJoDhEAaSSgeV7Y745+gyMIdtQmrFHfqrFdjq D6G0HE+Z68ywc5KN67YxhvhBmSycs1ZSKAXv1zLDlXdmjHDHkU3xMcB+RkuiTba8yRFYwb/n j62CC4NhFTuIKOc4ta3dJsyXTGh/hO9UjWUnmAGfd0fnzTBZF8Qlnw/8ftx5lt4/O+eqY1EN RITScnPzXE/wMOlTtdkddQ+QN6xt6jyR2XtAIi7aAFHypIqA3lLI9hF9x+lj4UQ2yA9LqpoX 6URpPOd13JhAyDe47cwsP1u9Y+OBvQTVLSvw7Liu2b4KjqL4lx++VdBi7dXsjJ6kjIRjI6Lb WVpxe8LumMCuVDepTafBZ49gr7Fgc4F9ZSCo6ChgQNLn6WDzIkqFX+42KuHz90AHWhuW+KZR 1aJylERWeTcMCGUSBptd48KniWmD6kPKpzwoMkJtEXTuO2lVuborxzwuqOTNuYg9lWDl7zKt wPI9brGzquUHy4qRrA== Message-ID: Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2019 00:22:00 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.2.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <0f492db1-d168-473c-8447-9e08d51c2039@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] I-D Action: draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-06.txt X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2019 10:33:51 -0000 On 19/12/19 20:44, Brian E Carpenter wrote: > On 20-Dec-19 12:01, Robert Raszuk wrote: >>>    And where is it forwarded to, since we are already at the DA? >> >> PSP operates at the n-1 segment end of the SR path so naturally after swapping DA it is forwarded to the segment end. Note that we are all along operating on the encapsulated header ... original packet including its original IPv6 header is sitting as passenger here.  >> >> So last segment here will received encapsulated IPv6 packet will decapsulate it and fwd based on the original DA.  >> >> Seems very simple :)  > > Right, but the language in the PSP sub-section does not talk about decapsulation. Because it's not. :-) They are deleting an EH. Thanks, -- Fernando Gont e-mail: fernando@gont.com.ar || fgont@si6networks.com PGP Fingerprint: 7809 84F5 322E 45C7 F1C9 3945 96EE A9EF D076 FFF1 From nobody Fri Dec 20 03:13:02 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E483B1200E6 for ; Fri, 20 Dec 2019 03:12:59 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.499 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.499 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com header.b=UaQyzP1w; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.onmicrosoft.com header.b=q1L2Fc6T Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rVn3mod1gsFT for ; 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Fri, 20 Dec 2019 11:12:48 +0000 From: "Darren Dukes (ddukes)" To: Andrew Alston CC: Alexandre Petrescu , SPRING WG email list Thread-Topic: [spring] packet captures for draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-06? 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X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2019 11:13:00 -0000 --_000_BN7PR11MB2594239BD21083EC255C4969C82D0BN7PR11MB2594namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Andrew. Perhaps brevity can help here. I=92m only replying to the last sentence of= your email. Were you to have initiated this thread with =93This implementation allocate= d multiple END.X SIDs, is that in opposition to section... of draft...? I i= nterpret section ... to mean ....=94 My reply could have been =93You seem to have misunderstood, allow me to exp= lain... =94 then we could have had a good conversation and arrived at the c= larifying text. I hope this helps. Thanks! Darren ________________________________ From: Andrew Alston Sent: Friday, December 20, 2019 12:10:18 AM To: Darren Dukes (ddukes) Cc: Alexandre Petrescu ; SPRING WG email list= Subject: RE: [spring] packet captures for draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-pr= ogramming-06? Hi Darren, > You state that =93code seems to be *way* off the draft=94, but there is n= othing in your email to support this. Firstly - this quote leaves out a key statement in my original email - that= I may have been reading the document incorrectly. > You have made claims based on unfortunate misunderstandings of SRv6. A misunderstanding that quite frankly should concern the authors of this dr= aft, since it has been clearly demonstrated in subsequent emails that I was= not alone in this misunderstanding, please seehttps://mailarchive.ietf.org= /arch/msg/spring/d45B3wI5UBliIE0aoJPU-PDNe7w and https://mailarchive.ietf.o= rg/arch/msg/spring/JbL22XULyiNA9HH9LFANZpi4Bbs > Let=92s return focus to discussing technical points and progressing the W= G agenda and milestones with diligence and a constructive mindset. Why do we standardize? For the purpose of inter-op. Why is running code c= entral to IETF philosophies? In my view, its so that people can demonstrat= e what is in the draft and so that the understanding of what is in the draf= t can be tested in real code. Indeed, I point to the introduction of this = draft: This document defines the SRv6 Network Programming concept and aims at standardizing the main segment routing functionsto enable the creation of interoperable overlays with underlay optimization and service programming. Therefore =96 if the text in the draft is being mis-interpreted =96 I would= say that the questioning of this is both relevant and constructive =96 bec= ause a mis-reading of this by multiple people, both vendors and operators a= like it would seem, would result in significant challenges to inter-op impl= ementations of said text. I would also point out that the cornerstone of th= e IETF is to find consensus, and a major part of meeting WG milestones rev= olves around finding of consensus. I question how we will find consensus i= f it is demonstrable that the participants in this process have totally dif= ferent interpretations of what is in the document. It therefore moves to t= he authors to clarify in the text so that the meaning becomes clear and pre= sent so that a shared understanding can be gained to then gauge the consens= us. As such, I view this not only as constructive, but diligent, and I vie= w this also as a technical point, since the misunderstandings of the text r= evolve around technical issues in a technical draft. As such, do you not feel that a more appropriate response to my email would= have been, =93You seem to have misunderstood, perhaps we can provide some = text in order to ensure such misunderstandings are less likely to occur? Thanks Andrew On Dec 17, 2019, at 12:57 AM, Andrew Alston wrote: Alex, Will try and get you some captures off the devices I=92ve been testing on = =96 in order to make sure I understood this draft properly, and in light of= the deployment status draft, I decided to play a lot more deeply and setup= a bit of a lab. I=92m still doing tests and soon as I have some other bit= s completed will send through the packet captures from those against (Since= the XR boxes that I have to test on seem to have absolutely no ability to = setup traffic steering with SRv6 (and I actually have requested details of = how to configure this in the past but gotten no response), I=92m just finis= hing the code to inject packets from outside with a sid stack to test this.= I also acknowledge that I=92m running tests against code that is implemen= ting a draft that seems far from final =96 and so shouldn=92t have that man= y expectations. That being said, In light of the deployment draft =96 I do have some concer= ns that there is a draft that specifies that people have put this stuff int= o production =96 yet the implementation in current shipping code seems to b= e *way* off the draft and contrary to things we have been told in the worki= ng group. Some of the more interesting finds so far: =95 In Montreal =96 I questioned the growth in the IGP tables =96 since I w= ould have to use a separate locator on each router =96 I was explicitly tol= d this wasn=92t necessary and could use the loopbacks =96 not so in current= code =96 use of the loopback marks the locator as down. =95 Locator size is not configurable as anything other than a /64 =95 XR 7.0.1 claims a maximum number of SID=92s at 8000 =96 I=92m still unc= lear if this limitation in the code is based on locally configured SID=92s = or received SID=92s =96 and will run some tests on this in the coming day o= r two to verify =95 There seems to be a limit on a single locator per box =96 I=92m still t= rying to figure out what impact this will have in a multi-area or multi-lev= el IGP deployment scenario. =95 By default when configuring a locator =96 the device configures a separ= ate End.X (PSP) for each interface =96 now =96 this is where things get int= eresting. If I am reading the NP text correctly, End.X (PSP) should be loc= ator:0006:: - However, in the shipping code, that is not the case at all = =96 as per the below: RP/0/RP0/CPU0:SRV6-R2#show segment-routing srv6 locator R2 sid Sun Dec 15 0= 4:56:10.913 UTC SID Behavior Context = Owner State RW -------------------------- ----------- ------------------------------ = ------------------ ----- -- 2001:db8:ee:2:1:: End (PSP) 'default':1 = sidmgr InUse Y 2001:db8:ee:2:11:: End.OP 'default' = sidmgr InUse Y 2001:db8:ee:2:40:: End.X (PSP) [Gi0/0/0/0, Link-Local] = isis-64 InUse Y 2001:db8:ee:2:41:: End.X (PSP) [Gi0/0/0/1, Link-Local] = isis-64 InUse Y 2001:db8:ee:2:42:: End.X (PSP) [Gi0/0/0/3, Link-Local] = isis-64 InUse Y So from my perspective =96 I have to wonder about the production deployment= s =96 because particularly on this last point =96 if people have been putti= ng this stuff in production, and the implementation is so different from th= e text, its going to create some rather interesting breakage going forward = if my reading of the text is correct. Anyway =96 will send some packet captures hopefully in the next 48 hours on= ce I=92ve got a more complete set of captures from my lab setup. Thanks Andrew From: spring On Behalf Of Alexandre Petres= cu Sent: Monday, 16 December 2019 17:34 To: SPRING WG email list Subject: [spring] packet captures for draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-progra= mming-06? Hi, SPRINGers, My comments on SRv6 relate to a worry about modifying packets in transit. In order to better explain myself, or maybe to remove the worry altogether, I would like to ask for packet dumps of SRv6. By looking at the packet contents that go into the network it is much easier to clarify and to avoid misunderstandings. Alex _______________________________________________ spring mailing list mailto:spring@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring _______________________________________________ spring mailing list mailto:spring@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring --_000_BN7PR11MB2594239BD21083EC255C4969C82D0BN7PR11MB2594namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello Andrew. 

Perhaps brevity can help here.  I=92m= only replying to the last sentence of your email.

Were you to have initiated this thread with =93This implementation allocate= d multiple END.X SIDs, is that in opposition to section... of draft...? I i= nterpret section ... to mean ....=94

My reply could have been =93You seem to have misunderstood, allow me to exp= lain... =94 then we could have had a good conversation and arrived at the c= larifying text.

I hope this helps. 

Thanks!
  Darren 

From: Andr= ew Alston <Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com>
Sent: Friday, December 20, 2019 12:10:18 AM
To: Darren Dukes (ddukes) <ddukes@cisco.com>
Cc: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>; SPRING = WG email list <spring@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [spring] packet captures for draft-ietf-spring-srv6-net= work-programming-06?
 

Hi Darren,

 

 

> You state that =93code seems to be *way* off the draft=94, but = there is nothing in your email to support this. 

 

Firstly - this quote leave= s out a key statement in my original email - that I may have been reading t= he document incorrectly.

 

> You have made claims based on unfortunate misunderstandings of = SRv6.

 

A misunderstanding that qu= ite frankly should concern the authors of this draft, since it has been cle= arly demonstrated in subsequent emails that I was not alone in this misunde= rstanding, please seehttps://mailarchiv= e.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/d45B3wI5UBliIE0aoJPU-PDNe7w and https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/JbL22XULyiNA9HH9LFANZpi4Bbs

 

> Let=92s return focus to discussing technical points and progres= sing the WG agenda and milestones with diligence and a constructive mi= ndset.

 

Why do we standardize? &nb= sp;For the purpose of inter-op.  Why is running code central to IETF p= hilosophies?  In my view, its so that people can demonstrate what is i= n the draft and so that the understanding of what is in the draft can be tested in real code.  Indeed, I point to the intr= oduction of this draft:

 

This document defines the SRv6 Networ= k Programming concept and aims

at standardizing the main segment rou= ting functionsto enable the

creation of interoperable overlays= with underlay optimization and

service programming.

Therefore =96 if the text = in the draft is being mis-interpreted =96 I would say that the questioning = of this is both relevant and constructive =96 because a mis-reading of this= by multiple people, both vendors and operators alike it would seem, would result in significant challenges to inter-op im= plementations of said text. I would also point out that the cornerstone of = the IETF is to find consensus,  and a major part of meeting WG milesto= nes revolves around finding of consensus.  I question how we will find consensus if it is demonstrable that the parti= cipants in this process have totally different interpretations of what is i= n the document.  It therefore moves to the authors to clarify in the t= ext so that the meaning becomes clear and present so that a shared understanding can be gained to then gauge the= consensus.  As such, I view this not only as constructive, but dilige= nt, and I view this also as a technical point, since the misunderstandings = of the text revolve around technical issues in a technical draft.

 

As such, do you not feel t= hat a more appropriate response to my email would have been, =93You seem to= have misunderstood, perhaps we can provide some text in order to ensure su= ch misunderstandings are less likely to occur?

 

Thanks

 

Andrew

 

On Dec 17, 2019, at 12:57 = AM, Andrew Alston <mailto:Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com> wrote:

 

Alex,

 

Will try and get you some = captures off the devices I=92ve been testing on =96 in order to make sure I= understood this draft properly, and in light of the deployment status draf= t, I decided to play a lot more deeply and setup a bit of a lab.  I=92m still doing tests and soon as I have som= e other bits completed will send through the packet captures from those aga= inst (Since the XR boxes that I have to test on seem to have absolutely no = ability to setup traffic steering with SRv6 (and I actually have requested details of how to configure this in th= e past but gotten no response), I=92m just finishing the code to inject pac= kets from outside with a sid stack to test this.  I also acknowledge t= hat I=92m running tests against code that is implementing a draft that seems far from final =96 and so shouldn=92t h= ave that many expectations.

 

That being said, In light = of the deployment draft =96 I do have some concerns that there is a draft t= hat specifies that people have put this stuff into production =96 yet the i= mplementation in current shipping code seems to be *way* off the draft and contrary to things we have been told in the = working group.

 

Some of the more interesti= ng finds so far:

 

=95 In Montreal =96 I ques= tioned the growth in the IGP tables =96 since I would have to use a separat= e locator on each router =96 I was explicitly told this wasn=92t necessary = and could use the loopbacks =96 not so in current code =96 use of the loopback marks the locator as down.

 

=95 Locator size is not co= nfigurable as anything other than a /64

 

=95 XR 7.0.1 claims a maxi= mum number of SID=92s at 8000 =96 I=92m still unclear if this limitation in= the code is based on locally configured SID=92s or received SID=92s =96 an= d will run some tests on this in the coming day or two to verify

 

=95 There seems to be a li= mit on a single locator per box =96 I=92m still trying to figure out what i= mpact this will have in a multi-area or multi-level IGP deployment scenario= .

 

=95 By default when config= uring a locator =96 the device configures a separate End.X (PSP) for each i= nterface =96 now =96 this is where things get interesting.  If I am re= ading the NP text correctly, End.X (PSP) should be locator:0006::  - However, in the shipping code, that is not the case= at all =96 as per the below:

 

RP/0/RP0/CPU0:SRV6-R2#show= segment-routing srv6 locator R2 sid Sun Dec 15 04:56:10.913 UTC

SID    = ;            &n= bsp;        Behavior   &n= bsp; Context          &nb= sp;            =     Owner        &nb= sp;      State  RW

--------------------------=   -----------  ------------------------------    -= -----------------  -----  --

2001:db8:ee:2:1:: &nb= sp;         End (PSP)  &n= bsp; 'default':1          = ;             s= idmgr           &nbs= p;  InUse  Y

2001:db8:ee:2:11:: &n= bsp;        End.OP   &nbs= p;   'default'        &nb= sp;            =     sidmgr        &n= bsp;     InUse  Y

2001:db8:ee:2:40:: &n= bsp;        End.X (PSP)  [Gi0/0/0/0= , Link-Local]           i= sis-64           &nb= sp; InUse  Y

2001:db8:ee:2:41:: &n= bsp;        End.X (PSP)  [Gi0/0/0/1= , Link-Local]           i= sis-64           &nb= sp; InUse  Y

2001:db8:ee:2:42:: &n= bsp;        End.X (PSP)  [Gi0/0/0/3= , Link-Local]           i= sis-64           &nb= sp; InUse  Y

 

So from my perspective =96= I have to wonder about the production deployments =96 because particularly= on this last point =96 if people have been putting this stuff in productio= n, and the implementation is so different from the text, its going to create some rather interesting breakage going = forward if my reading of the text is correct.

 

Anyway =96 will send some = packet captures hopefully in the next 48 hours once I=92ve got a more compl= ete set of captures from my lab setup.

 

Thanks

 

Andrew

 

 

From: spring <mail= to:spring-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Alexandre Petrescu

Sent: Monday, 16 Dece= mber 2019 17:34

To: SPRING WG email l= ist <mailto:spring@ietf.org>

Subject: [spring] pac= ket captures for draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-06?

 

Hi, SPRINGers,

 

My comments on SRv6 relate= to a worry about modifying packets in transit.

 

In order to better explain= myself, or maybe to remove the worry 

altogether, I would like t= o ask for packet dumps of SRv6.

 

By looking at the packet c= ontents that go into the network it is much 

easier to clarify and to a= void misunderstandings.

 

Alex

 

__________________________= _____________________

spring mailing list=

mailto:spring@ietf.org

https://www.ietf.o= rg/mailman/listinfo/spring

__________________________= _____________________

spring mailing list=

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--_000_BN7PR11MB2594239BD21083EC255C4969C82D0BN7PR11MB2594namp_-- From nobody Fri Dec 20 04:44:15 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22C31120106 for ; Fri, 20 Dec 2019 04:44:14 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0W_5SEhhkwPB for ; Fri, 20 Dec 2019 04:44:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from cnshjsmin05.nokia-sbell.com (cnshjsmin05.nokia-sbell.com [116.246.26.45]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 812931200F7 for ; Fri, 20 Dec 2019 04:44:08 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: ac18929d-ae3ff7000000138b-c4-5dfcc19b53af Received: from CNSHPPEXCH1604.nsn-intra.net (Unknown_Domain [135.251.51.104]) (using TLS with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by cnshjsmin05.nokia-sbell.com (Symantec Messaging Gateway) with SMTP id 47.B8.05003.B91CCFD5; Fri, 20 Dec 2019 20:42:03 +0800 (HKT) Received: from CNSHPPEXCH1605.nsn-intra.net (135.251.51.105) by CNSHPPEXCH1604.nsn-intra.net (135.251.51.104) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256) id 15.1.1713.5; Fri, 20 Dec 2019 20:42:03 +0800 Received: from CNSHPPEXCH1605.nsn-intra.net ([135.251.51.105]) by CNSHPPEXCH1605.nsn-intra.net ([135.251.51.105]) with mapi id 15.01.1713.007; Fri, 20 Dec 2019 20:42:03 +0800 From: "Wang, Weibin (NSB - CN/Shanghai)" To: "Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)" CC: "spring@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: different meaning of destination address in draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming Thread-Index: AdW3JC8rtn3qhR26TEecxPzuCB6VbA== Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2019 12:42:02 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [135.251.51.115] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_e56efa4aa5334edf876fc610632d2a8fnokiasbellcom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFupjkeLIzCtJLcpLzFFi42Jp/22coSty6E+swd8+RYtfx3exWBy/8JvR gcljyu+NrB5LlvxkCmCK4rJJSc3JLEst0rdL4Mr4d2oyY0FXSsWDuc/ZGxg7IroYOTkkBEwk Xsw8wg5iCwkcYpI4dC6li5ELyP7LKHFm2SkmCGcTo8TGHfeZQarYBNwkJm3bxQZiiwiYSkzd cIUVxGYWUJdYtv8CC4gtLJAo0fprM1RNmsT3lXNYIGw9iXW3LzOB2CwCqhIHV50D28wrYCex 6OsUMJtRQEzi+6k1TBAzxSVuPZnPBHGpgMSSPeeZIWxRiZeP/wHt5QCylST6NkCVp0rs/7CR CWKkoMTJmU9YJjAKz0IyaRaSsllIyiDiOhILdn9ig7C1JZYtfM0MY5858JgJWXwBI/sqRunk vOKMrOLczDwDU728/OzMRN3ipNScHL3k/NxNjMBYWiMxae4Oxs7O+EOMAhyMSjy8J/b9iRVi TSwrrsw9xCjBwawkwnu742esEG9KYmVValF+fFFpTmrxIUZpDhYlcd6WyQtjhQTSE0tSs1NT C1KLYLJMHJxSDYwtMlGbJZ+sfRijckjk2uuNVnJ+a4sM+FM3XPTcVTlF/eicjP4HCZZck706 Eoqko9J5/srERLKEPnBTd83XULn9bNmpjWxK7/8/sbS0Sdr13eROfQ5DkFNIrTnnw/dlrF9s GmrOaKTqLaste7dI2fZBIU+WZM+3woO+a5bvi/lyvWDe7m4vViWW4oxEQy3mouJEAFoiiiKh AgAA Archived-At: Subject: [spring] different meaning of destination address in draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2019 12:44:14 -0000 --_000_e56efa4aa5334edf876fc610632d2a8fnokiasbellcom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Authors: I have a bit confusion on understanding the meaning of "B2" in packet P1 an= d P2 in following section 5.1 in the latest draft; I notice that "H.Encaps" cover two application scenario which you have ment= ioned in text, one is for CE-ingress PE for L3VPN using SR-policy, the othe= r is TI-LFA in intermediate Node within SRv6 domain; First for L3VPN scenario and the P1 is native packet toward ingress PE from= CE; So, I believe that "B2" in packet P1 is common ipv6 address (rfc4291), not = SID. Of course, I believe B2 in P2 always be SID, because it is included Segment= List and it isn't last one. As a result, I think the same B2 have different meaning in P1 and P2 in thi= s example. That lead easily to be confused. it is better to using another letter in p= acket P1. Second scenario, the P1 steered at PLR for TI-LFA; With this scenario, of course, the B2 in P1 may have any meaning, it may be= SID (END.DT4) or rfc4291-style GUA address (native IPv6 traffic). So, B2 i= n P1 has still different meaning compared with B2 in P2, because B2 in P2 i= s only SID. So you had better distinguish the letter "B2" in P1 and P2 at same example,= Is it right? 5.1. H.Encaps: SR Headend with Encapsulation in an SRv6 Policy Node N receives two packets P1=3D(A, B2) and P2=3D(A,B2)(B3, B2, B1; SL=3D1). B2 is neither a local address nor SID of N. N steers the transit packets P1 and P2 into an SR Policy with a Source Address T and a Segment list . The H.Encaps transit encapsulation behavior is defined as follows: S01. Push an IPv6 header with its own SRH (S3, S2, S1; SL=3D2) S02. Set outer IPv6 SA =3D T and outer IPv6 DA =3D S1 S03. Set outer payload length, traffic class and flow label S04. Update the Next-Header value S05. Decrement inner Hop Limit or TTL S06. Submit the packet to the IPv6 module for transmission to S1 After the H.Encaps behavior, P1 and P2 respectively look like: - (T, S1) (S3, S2, S1; SL=3D2) (A, B2) - (T, S1) (S3, S2, S1; SL=3D2) (A, B2) (B3, B2, B1; SL=3D1) Cheers ! WANG Weibin --_000_e56efa4aa5334edf876fc610632d2a8fnokiasbellcom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Authors:

 

I have a bit confusion on understanding the meaning = of “B2” in packet P1 and P2 in following section 5.1 in the lat= est draft;

I notice that “H.Encaps” cover two appli= cation scenario which you have mentioned in text, one is for CE-ingress PE = for L3VPN using SR-policy, the other is TI-LFA in intermediate Node within = SRv6 domain;  

First for L3VPN scenario and the P1 is native packet= toward ingress PE from CE;

So, I believe that “B2” in packet P1 is = common ipv6 address (rfc4291), not SID.

Of course, I believe B2 in P2 always be SID, because= it is included Segment List and it isn’t last one.

As a result, I think the same B2 have different mean= ing in P1 and P2 in this example.

That lead easily to be confused.  it is better = to using another letter in packet P1.

 

Second scenario, the P1 steered at PLR for TI-LFA;

With this scenario, of course, the B2 in P1 may have= any meaning, it may be SID (END.DT4) or rfc4291-style GUA address (native = IPv6 traffic). So, B2 in P1 has still different meaning compared with B2 in= P2, because B2 in P2 is only SID.

 

So you had better distinguish the letter “B2&#= 8221; in P1 and P2 at same example, Is it right?

 

5.1.  H.Encaps: SR Headend with Encapsulation in an SRv6 Policy

 

   Node N receives two packets P1=3D(A, B2) an= d P2=3D(A,B2)(B3, B2, B1;

   SL=3D1).  B2 is neither a local address nor SID of N.=

 

   N steers the transit packets P1 and P2 into an SR Policy w= ith a

   Source Address T and a Segment list <S1, S2, S3>.

 

   The H.Encaps transit encapsulation behavior is defined as = follows:

 

   S01.   Push an IPv6 header with its own SRH (S3,= S2, S1; SL=3D2)

   S02.   Set outer IPv6 SA =3D T and outer IPv6 DA= =3D S1

   S03.   Set outer payload length, traffic class a= nd flow label

   S04.   Update the Next-Header value

   S05.   Decrement inner Hop Limit or TTL

   S06.   Submit the packet to the IPv6 module for = transmission to S1

 

   After the H.Encaps behavior, P1 and P2 respectively look l= ike:

 

   - (T, S1) (S3, S2, S1; SL=3D2) (A, B2)

 

   - (T, S1) (S3,= S2, S1; SL=3D2) (A, B2) (B3, B2, B1; SL=3D1)

 

 

 

 

Cheers !

 

WANG Weibin

 

--_000_e56efa4aa5334edf876fc610632d2a8fnokiasbellcom_-- From nobody Fri Dec 20 07:19:00 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E87CF120098 for ; Fri, 20 Dec 2019 07:18:58 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.631 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.631 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6kaRiduP-KxH for ; Fri, 20 Dec 2019 07:18:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from sainfoin-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (sainfoin-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr [132.167.192.228]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E22EB12009E for ; Fri, 20 Dec 2019 07:18:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by sainfoin-sys.extra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id xBKFIqYI023504; Fri, 20 Dec 2019 16:18:52 +0100 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id 5A725206EAE; Fri, 20 Dec 2019 16:18:52 +0100 (CET) Received: from muguet1-smtp-out.intra.cea.fr (muguet1-smtp-out.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.12]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44C36206DCC; Fri, 20 Dec 2019 16:18:52 +0100 (CET) Received: from [10.11.240.44] ([10.11.240.44]) by muguet1-sys.intra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id xBKFIpfW011281; Fri, 20 Dec 2019 16:18:51 +0100 To: Robert Raszuk , Gyan Mishra Cc: Mark Smith , SPRING WG , "Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)" References: <8f5607c9-645a-ea88-e2a7-a4bed8206fc8@gmail.com> <63F5AA66-AEF8-4278-B98C-D3C53AC5A60A@cisco.com> From: Alexandre Petrescu Message-ID: <069e6021-537c-422a-37da-f090a6ac334b@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2019 16:18:51 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] 64-bit locators X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2019 15:18:59 -0000 Le 20/12/2019 à 00:07, Robert Raszuk a écrit : > > Fixed length of any field LOC:FUNC:ARGs makes no sense to me. What is > optimal for Ron or Mark may not be optimal for me. I think I can legitimately wonder whether the 'SID' Segment Identfier should not be something else than an IP address. Making a SID an IP address might lead to other well-known confusions like in OSPF: there is a Router ID which is an IP address in some manufacturer's speak, it works fine, but it does not reply to ping under any configuration whatsoever. That is not a good thing. The router id looks like an IP address but it is not one. When migrating OSPF to IPv6 all was changed but the Router ID stayed like an IPv4 address. So it is an IPv6 OSPF but has some IPv4 in it. The column-hextet notation, or more precisely something like "2001:db8::", denotes an IP address. Not only is it a Documentaiton Prefix, but it is an IP address. There is an RFC for it. It is somehow reserved and it shouldnt be used for something else, otherwise it creates confusion. It could be easy to create a new space for SID, with its distinct notation, like 64bit identifiers "ab_cd_ef_gh_01_02__". Nobody would try to ping these because they dont look like IP addresses. Then, we might wonder whether these SIDs should be fixed or variable length. Alex > > While we are at that fixed size of 128 bits of IPv6 also makes no sense > - but that vessel left the harbour a while ago. > > Cheers, > R. > > > > > On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 10:57 PM Gyan Mishra > wrote: > > > > On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 4:17 PM Mark Smith > wrote: > > > > On Thu, 19 Dec 2019, 22:48 Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril), > > wrote: > > Hi, > > As mentioned in the draft, the choice of the locator length > is deployment specific. > LINE has deployed SRv6 using a locator different than a /64. > > > This is effectively an appeal to authority. > > What makes what LINE has done the best and right thing to do? > > I can already see they're using the IPv4 link-local 169.254/16 > prefix in a manner that wildly violates how it is specified to > be used in RFC3927. See Slides 9, 12, 24. > > Tying your IPv6 addressing plan to IPv4 addressing could end up > imposing IPv4's addressing limitations on IPv6 - defeating the > primary purpose of IPv6 - providing many more addresses than IPv4. > > Slide 32 shows they're violating RFC 4193 (IPv6 ULAs), because > they're using ULA-Cs ('fc') rather than ULA-Ls ('fd'), despite > there being no central registry.  Their 40 bit Global ID of "17" > could be random, although I'm guessing not, as random numbers > would usually have far less zeros in them. These sorts of ULA > errors are why I presented "Getting IPv6 Addressing Right" at > AusNOG this year - > https://www.slideshare.net/markzzzsmith/ausnog-2019-getting-ipv6-private-addressing-right . > > > This is an Internet Draft, so this is the best time to make > these sorts of changes, as it is much easier now. When things > become RFCs it becomes much harder (and much, much harder when > they become Internet Standards). > > If somebody has deployed Internet Draft level technology, they > have to accept the risk that what they've deployed might not > comply with the eventual RFC. > > Regards, > Mark. > >  [Gyan] For IPv6 addressing you can have any length prefix up to > /128.  i am all for flexibility with vlsm even though may not be > widely used. > > SRv6 SID encoding differs in that we had 3 fields > {locator;function;arguments} that I think it makes sense to be fixed > in the specification as Ron has brought up. > > From an operator perspective for programmability as SRv6 > deployments with or without centralized controller, fixed length of > the 3 fields makes sense so operators can easily craft ACLs for > deployments. > > I think we could go crazy with the sizing but I think since 64 bit > boundary exists today for slaac we could make the locator /64 as > well is fine.  We could split the other 2 fields evenly 32 bits each > or make the function longer.  I think we’ll defined sizing is > important so SID addressing plan is not chaotic. > > > > > Cheers, > Pablo. > > [1] > https://speakerdeck.com/line_developers/line-data-center-networking-with-srv6 > > -----Original Message----- > From: spring > on behalf of Alexandre > Petrescu > > Date: Thursday, 19 December 2019 at 09:44 > To: "spring@ietf.org " > > > Subject: Re: [spring] 64-bit locators > > > >     Le 19/12/2019 à 00:13, Mark Smith a écrit : >     [...] > >     > VLSM [variable length subnet mask] is fundamentally hard, > >     We need VLSM in other places too, such as in ULA > prefixes fd and fc. > >     I think it is indeed a difficult to grasp concept, but > it is there for >     growth. > >     Alex > >     > >     > Regards, >     > Mark. >     > >     >     __ >     > >     >     In this case, we should probably change the > document to reflect >     >     implemented behavior.____ >     > >     >     __ __ >     > >     > >     > >                     Ron____ >     > >     >     __ __ >     > >     > >     >     Juniper Business Use Only >     > >     >     _______________________________________________ >     >     spring mailing list >     > spring@ietf.org > > >     > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring >     > >     > >     > _______________________________________________ >     > spring mailing list >     > spring@ietf.org >     > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring >     > > >     _______________________________________________ >     spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > > > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > > -- > > Gyan S. Mishra > > IT Network Engineering & Technology > > Verizon Communications Inc. (VZ) > > 13101 Columbia Pike FDC1 3rd Floor > > Silver Spring, MD 20904 > > United States > > Phone: 301 502-1347 > > Email: gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com > > www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies-consultant > > > > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > From nobody Fri Dec 20 07:24:13 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2FDC1200B2 for ; Fri, 20 Dec 2019 07:24:11 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=raszuk.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nNC_zmefX-n0 for ; Fri, 20 Dec 2019 07:24:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qt1-x82d.google.com (mail-qt1-x82d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::82d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 079E31200B1 for ; Fri, 20 Dec 2019 07:24:09 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qt1-x82d.google.com with SMTP id j5so8459808qtq.9 for ; Fri, 20 Dec 2019 07:24:08 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=raszuk.net; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=CxoAcEj80ZrPOp207rt5Dd9YphxgBzt1F7+SR/VZ+hg=; b=EpNI5B+jhDAUdOTb/2QWC0OsDfSzOdRV0XDc7mAZUv21vBsGLwOQHCN5SK8xNZncFs OAOHUVGDqdsqAXbQa6/N8HLjvju8MYa/0bU1hjya69Ph5ERl9mzSd9I6DG+5vU9w3Y0B YJU5HO9Qr37wmnQYcVSys48IQVNSzkFj/7JP/lHvqHakI7BJJ2uOOVMVVnh1XVBoKy1t 0iedOZUfXezI6cHspxzcS/Br1uLzxT2T2VV0G0Zk0wnnWaKkOIdgjSodfU+l+XiJz17p zHhUI9lC06t6mAXk+ujw3fljbLIzZvHc3kKjjPM4Pw+z6RVTS5ne5xUk+Lk6I3qeTHbJ ihTA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=CxoAcEj80ZrPOp207rt5Dd9YphxgBzt1F7+SR/VZ+hg=; b=hDbUn5PjXBtemTBoNXENrxzDXQs/p3prTfVfqShUGBB1AOHqNRZsIGe0+30b/jC8IX HO3S44g2Sm3KFnvMt5yAsINoxeagFl8/5Ey+OpYqKBrcTHhLR1R1ugHAKH443DzVnmo6 cR5yZQVJH4p/gQHN4wma1YvrronQkPLgcDjphbLuyQA6AvJeRTMzeYpRCYT341mOi753 V+zRPLF/PwQA5NH4StbvWMfO1rUrGHh+CHWaqFEB5ar3JoDqJmXSflbHnBu3UbwUmfBp wNdsZBQibxvZ3K5NbY7rCEOIWeNGRdmATM3IMgzZvq7WvRSrLQnevWelxi2V2NHPRbk+ DQ/g== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVK4Vpe97xib0yhFwCVFZfLCodT5dklrmbz4gBwvuGY0O7FMRAr BcCd1geHl8atYGHLm7fV+ZFs8LJdimzapxUkzSuPWg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwSE49eZ58TUjHSk+hE9yePDw2gr/DtWhqy+pixMCrXwSGfePAHOnp7X58XYbHeBKWAK0j23GBsa2XO04qXsqs= X-Received: by 2002:ac8:a8b:: with SMTP id d11mr11782748qti.94.1576855448069; Fri, 20 Dec 2019 07:24:08 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <8f5607c9-645a-ea88-e2a7-a4bed8206fc8@gmail.com> <63F5AA66-AEF8-4278-B98C-D3C53AC5A60A@cisco.com> <069e6021-537c-422a-37da-f090a6ac334b@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <069e6021-537c-422a-37da-f090a6ac334b@gmail.com> From: Robert Raszuk Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2019 16:23:53 +0100 Message-ID: To: Alexandre Petrescu Cc: Gyan Mishra , Mark Smith , SPRING WG , "Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000d833cd059a24445f" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] 64-bit locators X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2019 15:24:12 -0000 --000000000000d833cd059a24445f Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Alexandre, You are missing a huge two advantages of actually using part of SID to be a routable prefix. You do not need a mapping plane + nodes not SR aware just forward vanilla IPv6 packets. With basic IGP or BGP IPv6 reachability you can easily construct you segment paths. And to your point of router_id not being pingable .. well a lot of deployments use loopback address as router_id and it is easily pingable when advertised via routing protocol of your choice. Thx, R. On Fri, Dec 20, 2019 at 4:18 PM Alexandre Petrescu < alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Le 20/12/2019 =C3=A0 00:07, Robert Raszuk a =C3=A9crit : > > > > Fixed length of any field LOC:FUNC:ARGs makes no sense to me. What is > > optimal for Ron or Mark may not be optimal for me. > > I think I can legitimately wonder whether the 'SID' Segment Identfier > should not be something else than an IP address. > > Making a SID an IP address might lead to other well-known confusions > like in OSPF: there is a Router ID which is an IP address in some > manufacturer's speak, it works fine, but it does not reply to ping under > any configuration whatsoever. > > That is not a good thing. The router id looks like an IP address but it > is not one. When migrating OSPF to IPv6 all was changed but the Router > ID stayed like an IPv4 address. So it is an IPv6 OSPF but has some IPv4 > in it. > > The column-hextet notation, or more precisely something like > "2001:db8::", denotes an IP address. Not only is it a Documentaiton > Prefix, but it is an IP address. There is an RFC for it. It is somehow > reserved and it shouldnt be used for something else, otherwise it > creates confusion. > > It could be easy to create a new space for SID, with its distinct > notation, like 64bit identifiers "ab_cd_ef_gh_01_02__". Nobody would > try to ping these because they dont look like IP addresses. > > Then, we might wonder whether these SIDs should be fixed or variable > length. > > Alex > > > > > While we are at that fixed size of 128 bits of IPv6 also makes no sense > > - but that vessel left the harbour a while ago. > > > > Cheers, > > R. > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 10:57 PM Gyan Mishra > > wrote: > > > > > > > > On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 4:17 PM Mark Smith > > wrote: > > > > > > > > On Thu, 19 Dec 2019, 22:48 Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril), > > > wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > As mentioned in the draft, the choice of the locator length > > is deployment specific. > > LINE has deployed SRv6 using a locator different than a /64= . > > > > > > This is effectively an appeal to authority. > > > > What makes what LINE has done the best and right thing to do? > > > > I can already see they're using the IPv4 link-local 169.254/16 > > prefix in a manner that wildly violates how it is specified to > > be used in RFC3927. See Slides 9, 12, 24. > > > > Tying your IPv6 addressing plan to IPv4 addressing could end up > > imposing IPv4's addressing limitations on IPv6 - defeating the > > primary purpose of IPv6 - providing many more addresses than > IPv4. > > > > Slide 32 shows they're violating RFC 4193 (IPv6 ULAs), because > > they're using ULA-Cs ('fc') rather than ULA-Ls ('fd'), despite > > there being no central registry. Their 40 bit Global ID of "17= " > > could be random, although I'm guessing not, as random numbers > > would usually have far less zeros in them. These sorts of ULA > > errors are why I presented "Getting IPv6 Addressing Right" at > > AusNOG this year - > > > https://www.slideshare.net/markzzzsmith/ausnog-2019-getting-ipv6-private-= addressing-right > . > > > > > > This is an Internet Draft, so this is the best time to make > > these sorts of changes, as it is much easier now. When things > > become RFCs it becomes much harder (and much, much harder when > > they become Internet Standards). > > > > If somebody has deployed Internet Draft level technology, they > > have to accept the risk that what they've deployed might not > > comply with the eventual RFC. > > > > Regards, > > Mark. > > > > [Gyan] For IPv6 addressing you can have any length prefix up to > > /128. i am all for flexibility with vlsm even though may not be > > widely used. > > > > SRv6 SID encoding differs in that we had 3 fields > > {locator;function;arguments} that I think it makes sense to be fixe= d > > in the specification as Ron has brought up. > > > > From an operator perspective for programmability as SRv6 > > deployments with or without centralized controller, fixed length of > > the 3 fields makes sense so operators can easily craft ACLs for > > deployments. > > > > I think we could go crazy with the sizing but I think since 64 bit > > boundary exists today for slaac we could make the locator /64 as > > well is fine. We could split the other 2 fields evenly 32 bits eac= h > > or make the function longer. I think we=E2=80=99ll defined sizing = is > > important so SID addressing plan is not chaotic. > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > Pablo. > > > > [1] > > > https://speakerdeck.com/line_developers/line-data-center-networking-with-= srv6 > > > > =EF=BB=BF-----Original Message----- > > From: spring > > on behalf of Alexandre > > Petrescu > > > > Date: Thursday, 19 December 2019 at 09:44 > > To: "spring@ietf.org " > > > > > Subject: Re: [spring] 64-bit locators > > > > > > > > Le 19/12/2019 =C3=A0 00:13, Mark Smith a =C3=A9crit : > > [...] > > > > > VLSM [variable length subnet mask] is fundamentally > hard, > > > > We need VLSM in other places too, such as in ULA > > prefixes fd and fc. > > > > I think it is indeed a difficult to grasp concept, but > > it is there for > > growth. > > > > Alex > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > Mark. > > > > > > __ > > > > > > In this case, we should probably change the > > document to reflect > > > implemented behavior.____ > > > > > > __ __ > > > > > > > > > > > Ron____ > > > > > > __ __ > > > > > > > > > Juniper Business Use Only > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > spring mailing list > > > spring@ietf.org > > > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > spring mailing list > > > spring@ietf.org > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > spring mailing list > > spring@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > spring mailing list > > spring@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > > > > _______________________________________________ > > spring mailing list > > spring@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > > > > -- > > > > Gyan S. Mishra > > > > IT Network Engineering & Technology > > > > Verizon Communications Inc. (VZ) > > > > 13101 Columbia Pike FDC1 3rd Floor > > > > Silver Spring, MD 20904 > > > > United States > > > > Phone: 301 502-1347 > > > > Email: gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com > > > > www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies-consultant > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > spring mailing list > > spring@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > > > --000000000000d833cd059a24445f Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Alexandre,

You are missing a huge two a= dvantages of actually using part of SID to be a routable prefix. You do not= need a mapping plane + nodes not SR aware just forward vanilla IPv6 packet= s. With basic IGP or BGP IPv6 reachability you can easily construct you seg= ment paths.=C2=A0

And to your point of router_id n= ot being pingable .. well a lot of deployments use loopback address as rout= er_id and it is easily pingable when advertised via routing protocol=C2=A0o= f your choice.=C2=A0

Thx,
R.


On Fri, Dec 20, 2019 at 4:18 PM Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> wrote:


Le 20/12/2019 =C3=A0 00:07, Robert Raszuk a =C3=A9crit=C2=A0:
>
> Fixed length=C2=A0of any field LOC:FUNC:ARGs makes no sense to me. Wha= t is
> optimal for Ron or Mark may not be optimal for me.

I think I can legitimately wonder whether the 'SID' Segment Identfi= er
should not be something else than an IP address.

Making a SID an IP address might lead to other well-known confusions
like in OSPF: there is a Router ID which is an IP address in some
manufacturer's speak, it works fine, but it does not reply to ping unde= r
any configuration whatsoever.

That is not a good thing.=C2=A0 The router id looks like an IP address but = it
is not one.=C2=A0 When migrating OSPF to IPv6 all was changed but the Route= r
ID stayed like an IPv4 address.=C2=A0 So it is an IPv6 OSPF but has some IP= v4
in it.

The column-hextet notation, or more precisely something like
"2001:db8::", denotes an IP address.=C2=A0 Not only is it a Docum= entaiton
Prefix, but it is an IP address.=C2=A0 There is an RFC for it.=C2=A0 It is = somehow
reserved and it shouldnt be used for something else, otherwise it
creates confusion.

It could be easy to create a new space for SID, with its distinct
notation, like 64bit identifiers "ab_cd_ef_gh_01_02__".=C2=A0 Nob= ody would
try to ping these because they dont look like IP addresses.

Then, we might wonder whether these SIDs should be fixed or variable length= .

Alex

>
> While we are at that fixed size of 128 bits of IPv6 also makes no sens= e
> - but that vessel left the harbour a while ago.
>
> Cheers,
> R.
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 10:57 PM Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com
> <mailto:= hayabusagsm@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 4:17 PM Mark Smith <markzzzsmith@gmail.= com
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:markzzzsmith@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0On Thu, 19 Dec 2019, 22:48 Pablo Cama= rillo (pcamaril),
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<pcamaril@cisco.com <mailto:pcamaril@cisco.com>> wrote:=
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Hi,
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0As mentioned in the dra= ft, the choice of the locator length
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0is deployment specific.=
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0LINE has deployed SRv6 = using a locator different than a /64.
>
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0This is effectively an appeal to auth= ority.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0What makes what LINE has done the bes= t and right thing to do?
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0I can already see they're using t= he IPv4 link-local 169.254/16
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0prefix in a manner that wildly violat= es how it is specified to
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0be used in RFC3927. See Slides 9, 12,= 24.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Tying your IPv6 addressing plan to IP= v4 addressing could end up
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0imposing IPv4's addressing limita= tions on IPv6 - defeating the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0primary purpose of IPv6 - providing m= any more addresses than IPv4.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Slide 32 shows they're violating = RFC 4193 (IPv6 ULAs), because
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0they're using ULA-Cs ('fc'= ;) rather than ULA-Ls ('fd'), despite
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0there being no central registry.=C2= =A0 Their 40 bit Global ID of "17"
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0could be random, although I'm gue= ssing not, as random numbers
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0would usually have far less zeros in = them. These sorts of ULA
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0errors are why I presented "Gett= ing IPv6 Addressing Right" at
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0AusNOG this year -
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://www.slideshare.net/markzzzsmith/ausnog-2= 019-getting-ipv6-private-addressing-right=C2=A0.
>
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0This is an Internet Draft, so this is= the best time to make
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0these sorts of changes, as it is much= easier now. When things
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0become RFCs it becomes much harder (a= nd much, much harder when
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0they become Internet Standards).
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0If somebody has deployed Internet Dra= ft level technology, they
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0have to accept the risk that what the= y've deployed might not
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0comply with the eventual RFC.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Regards,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Mark.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0[Gyan] For IPv6 addressing you can have any = length prefix up to
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0/128. =C2=A0i am all for flexibility with vlsm even= though may not be
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0widely used.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0SRv6 SID encoding differs in that we had 3 fields >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0{locator;function;arguments} that I think it makes = sense to be fixed
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0in the specification as Ron has brought up.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 From an operator perspective for programmability a= s SRv6
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0deployments with or without centralized controller,= fixed length of
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0the 3 fields makes sense so operators can easily cr= aft ACLs for
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0deployments.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0I think we could go crazy with the sizing but I thi= nk since 64 bit
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0boundary exists today for slaac we could make the l= ocator /64 as
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0well is fine.=C2=A0 We could split the other 2 fiel= ds evenly 32 bits each
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0or make the function longer.=C2=A0 I think we=E2=80= =99ll defined sizing is
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0important so SID addressing plan is not chaotic. >
>
>
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Cheers,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Pablo.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0[1]
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://speakerdeck.com/line_developers/line-d= ata-center-networking-with-srv6
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=EF=BB=BF-----Original = Message-----
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0From: spring <spring-bounces@ietf.= org
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:spring-bounces@ietf.org>> on behalf of Alexandre
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@= gmail.com
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:alexandre.petrescu@gm= ail.com>>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Date: Thursday, 19 Dece= mber 2019 at 09:44
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0To: "spring@ietf.org <mailto:spring@ietf.org>&qu= ot;
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<spring@ietf.org <mailto:spring@ietf.org>>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Subject: Re: [spring] 6= 4-bit locators
>
>
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Le 19/12= /2019 =C3=A0 00:13, Mark Smith a =C3=A9crit :
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 [...] >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > VLS= M [variable length subnet mask] is fundamentally hard,
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 We need = VLSM in other places too, such as in ULA
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0prefixes fd and fc.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 I think = it is indeed a difficult to grasp concept, but
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0it is there for
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 growth.<= br> >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Alex
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > Reg= ards,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > Mar= k.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0__
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0In this case, we should probably change the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0document to reflect
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0implemented behavior.____
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0__ __
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Ron____
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0__ __
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Juniper Business Use Only
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0_______________________________________________
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0spring mailing list
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > spring@ietf.org <m= ailto:spring@ietf.org<= /a>>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:spring@ietf.org <mailto:spring@ietf.org>&g= t;
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > ___= ____________________________________________
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > spr= ing mailing list
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > spring@ietf.org <m= ailto:spring@ietf.org<= /a>>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 ________= _______________________________________
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 spring m= ailing list
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0spring@ietf.org <mailto:spring@ietf.org>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0http= s://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
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>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0_______________________= ________________________
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0spring mailing list
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0spring@ietf.org <mailto:spring@ietf.org>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0http= s://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0_____________________________________= __________
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0spring mailing list
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0spring@ietf.org <mailto:spring@ietf.org>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://www.ietf.o= rg/mailman/listinfo/spring
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0--
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Gyan S. Mishra
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0IT Network Engineering & Technology
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Verizon Communications=C2=A0Inc. (VZ)
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A013101 Columbia Pike FDC1 3rd Floor
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>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Silver Spring, MD 20904
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0United States
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Phone:=C2=A0301 502-1347
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Email: gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com <mailto:gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com>
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0www.linkedin.co= m/in/networking-technologies-consultant
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<http://www.= linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies-consultant>
>
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0_______________________________________________
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0spring mailing list
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0spring@ietf.org <mailto:spring@ietf.org>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://www.ietf.org/mailman/lis= tinfo/spring
>
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by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7AE451200C3 for ; Fri, 20 Dec 2019 07:33:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from EUR02-VE1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-ve1eur02lp2056.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.6.56]) (Using TLS) by relay.mimecast.com with ESMTP id uk-mta-153-gYEQe13IMZC94O5k-NUFEw-1; Fri, 20 Dec 2019 15:33:27 +0000 Received: from DBBPR03MB5415.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com (20.179.47.79) by DBBPR03MB5432.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com (20.179.46.84) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.2538.18; Fri, 20 Dec 2019 15:33:25 +0000 Received: from DBBPR03MB5415.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::f4ba:55b5:8f6c:5256]) by DBBPR03MB5415.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::f4ba:55b5:8f6c:5256%5]) with mapi id 15.20.2559.015; Fri, 20 Dec 2019 15:33:24 +0000 From: Andrew Alston To: Alexandre Petrescu , Robert Raszuk , Gyan Mishra CC: SPRING WG , Mark Smith , "Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)" Thread-Topic: [spring] 64-bit locators Thread-Index: AdW1xQ51WdCKfYi8Srq12h55LZUKvwAM7yQAABPs9wAACIEPAAARyE4AAAFrlwAAAm2tAAAh79OAAAASruA= Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2019 15:33:24 +0000 Message-ID: References: <8f5607c9-645a-ea88-e2a7-a4bed8206fc8@gmail.com> <63F5AA66-AEF8-4278-B98C-D3C53AC5A60A@cisco.com> <069e6021-537c-422a-37da-f090a6ac334b@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <069e6021-537c-422a-37da-f090a6ac334b@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [2c0f:fe40:3:1:885a:9913:a5d8:815f] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-ht: Tenant x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 2c03a732-a502-4b84-301a-08d78561f412 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: DBBPR03MB5432: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:7219; x-forefront-prvs: 025796F161 x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; 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X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: R9autha3lgcjULuzDuyYD00My3mIMAutEHLq/Dvmlv7XGIejRbmBEjGemnDARx3HZkBfryxq3q4HzUQm76TP2syUfxrOtpBDv8afzoD0T0k= X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DBBPR03MB5432 X-MC-Unique: gYEQe13IMZC94O5k-NUFEw-1 X-Mimecast-Spam-Score: 0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_DBBPR03MB5415CDB6870E8E6B69522E40EE2D0DBBPR03MB5415eurp_" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] 64-bit locators X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2019 15:33:38 -0000 --_000_DBBPR03MB5415CDB6870E8E6B69522E40EE2D0DBBPR03MB5415eurp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 KzENCg0KSSBoYXZlIGxvbmcgYXJndWVkIHRoYXQgU1J2NiBlc3NlbnRpYWxseSByZWRlZmluZXMg YW5kIG92ZXJsb2FkcyB0aGUgaXB2NiBhZGRyZXNzIGFzIGRlZmluZWQg4oCTIHRoZSBhcmd1bWVu 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bh=I7sOpjQT7K0OL5cfEf5WElRplO04RRvs3Bz2idWSuIk=; b=psd4q8QhoXKz4Vx0QJllqw8Y/YA2ge8bqjgM/sbnR86FHlzSZEC9ucWEOMstdKIiBb lNJ/oWVMY7aVpHbmmq1zyY09APLrXJ5OPXxZgTnRMxLKbTV/xcrYOigS+4id/OVvxvTs i29fkARO4HKLIdcUvalnkpmVIycpujkYCfocdo2mbdV1/SycECQsI6LTcUrqdj7YIOHu W7aHjOaGUmEmXht4dTtwSd3tfwP/bp1MZ9KK78/vALQ20IqQAenvXS5jwdXhwFt3mJS4 2O4aK8UjRUfIsG6cD2p2PDeofXk+IlWnwLxHK84mfkdWxYCroAzBlOju2rw8TQAORRZT Jxtw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWc0BTXgQ4+qjQKA4j1u7iS8FiCBE3FvXUgdE+OFtoKUt5jc7of XaHI87HtDhXana/DmLrrhRuWGPemIJ+U6HZInEkIDg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzjoMGLHUwmfb4vO5IV0IAxUApNolFZL9HB9+GDuuyPKUTqOvQ1HALfGKrU2f+QXAHj0jp1+SljlldfMKG5HEU= X-Received: by 2002:ae9:e887:: with SMTP id a129mr13676948qkg.465.1576856735255; Fri, 20 Dec 2019 07:45:35 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <8f5607c9-645a-ea88-e2a7-a4bed8206fc8@gmail.com> <63F5AA66-AEF8-4278-B98C-D3C53AC5A60A@cisco.com> <069e6021-537c-422a-37da-f090a6ac334b@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: From: Robert Raszuk Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2019 16:45:20 +0100 Message-ID: To: Andrew Alston Cc: Alexandre Petrescu , Gyan Mishra , SPRING WG , Mark Smith , "Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000009124e8059a2491db" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] 64-bit locators X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2019 15:45:39 -0000 --0000000000009124e8059a2491db Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > So we are left with a chicken and egg situation =E2=80=93 is the SID an = address or isn=E2=80=99t it. I do not see here neither chicken nor an egg here. SID definition for SRv6 is very clear. It is . Done. Obviously LOCator part is routable. Thx, R. On Fri, Dec 20, 2019 at 4:33 PM Andrew Alston < Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com> wrote: > +1 > > > > I have long argued that SRv6 essentially redefines and overloads the ipv6 > address as defined =E2=80=93 the argument that I have been given is that = the SID is > in fact not an address =E2=80=93 however =E2=80=93 by virtue of the fact = that the SID in > SRv6 is copied into the address field during traffic steering =E2=80=93 a= nd routing > occurs based on that DA =E2=80=93 it most certainly is an address. > > > > So we are left with a chicken and egg situation =E2=80=93 is the SID an = address > or isn=E2=80=99t it. If it isn=E2=80=99t =E2=80=93 I 100% agree with you= that something else > should be used =E2=80=93 in which case how do you address the steering is= sue. If > it is an address =E2=80=93 then this draft fundamentally redefines the IP= v6 address > semantics =E2=80=93 and I would argue that should only be done by an upda= te of > RFC4291, and potentially a number of other documents which rely on the > current semantic. > > > > But =E2=80=93 either way =E2=80=93 I do not think we can argue that the S= ID and a v6 > address are currently different things in the drafts =E2=80=93 since a SI= D is > copied into the DA field =E2=80=93 and used to route on =E2=80=93 and whi= le that remains =E2=80=93 > I have stated before, and will state again, I have deep concerns as to th= e > unknown consequences of fundamentally changing the semantics of an addres= s > as it was defined in other RFC=E2=80=99s and as have wide deployment. > > > > Thanks > > > > Andrew > > > > > > *From:* spring *On Behalf Of *Alexandre Petresc= u > *Sent:* Friday, 20 December 2019 18:19 > *To:* Robert Raszuk ; Gyan Mishra < > hayabusagsm@gmail.com> > *Cc:* SPRING WG ; Mark Smith ; > Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril) > *Subject:* Re: [spring] 64-bit locators > > > > > > Le 20/12/2019 =C3=A0 00:07, Robert Raszuk a =C3=A9crit : > > > > Fixed length of any field LOC:FUNC:ARGs makes no sense to me. What is > > optimal for Ron or Mark may not be optimal for me. > > I think I can legitimately wonder whether the 'SID' Segment Identfier > should not be something else than an IP address. > > Making a SID an IP address might lead to other well-known confusions > like in OSPF: there is a Router ID which is an IP address in some > manufacturer's speak, it works fine, but it does not reply to ping under > any configuration whatsoever. > > That is not a good thing. The router id looks like an IP address but it > is not one. When migrating OSPF to IPv6 all was changed but the Router > ID stayed like an IPv4 address. So it is an IPv6 OSPF but has some IPv4 > in it. > > The column-hextet notation, or more precisely something like > "2001:db8::", denotes an IP address. Not only is it a Documentaiton > Prefix, but it is an IP address. There is an RFC for it. It is somehow > reserved and it shouldnt be used for something else, otherwise it > creates confusion. > > It could be easy to create a new space for SID, with its distinct > notation, like 64bit identifiers "ab_cd_ef_gh_01_02__". Nobody would > try to ping these because they dont look like IP addresses. > > Then, we might wonder whether these SIDs should be fixed or variable > length. > > Alex > > > > > While we are at that fixed size of 128 bits of IPv6 also makes no sense > > - but that vessel left the harbour a while ago. > > > > Cheers, > > R. > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 10:57 PM Gyan Mishra > >> wrote: > > > > > > > > On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 4:17 PM Mark Smith > >> wrote: > > > > > > > > On Thu, 19 Dec 2019, 22:48 Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril), > > > wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > As mentioned in the draft, the choice of the locator length > > is deployment specific. > > LINE has deployed SRv6 using a locator different than a /64. > > > > > > This is effectively an appeal to authority. > > > > What makes what LINE has done the best and right thing to do? > > > > I can already see they're using the IPv4 link-local 169.254/16 > > prefix in a manner that wildly violates how it is specified to > > be used in RFC3927. See Slides 9, 12, 24. > > > > Tying your IPv6 addressing plan to IPv4 addressing could end up > > imposing IPv4's addressing limitations on IPv6 - defeating the > > primary purpose of IPv6 - providing many more addresses than IPv4. > > > > Slide 32 shows they're violating RFC 4193 (IPv6 ULAs), because > > they're using ULA-Cs ('fc') rather than ULA-Ls ('fd'), despite > > there being no central registry. Their 40 bit Global ID of "17" > > could be random, although I'm guessing not, as random numbers > > would usually have far less zeros in them. These sorts of ULA > > errors are why I presented "Getting IPv6 Addressing Right" at > > AusNOG this year - > > > https://www.slideshare.net/markzzzsmith/ausnog-2019-getting-ipv6-private-= addressing-right > . > > > > > > This is an Internet Draft, so this is the best time to make > > these sorts of changes, as it is much easier now. When things > > become RFCs it becomes much harder (and much, much harder when > > they become Internet Standards). > > > > If somebody has deployed Internet Draft level technology, they > > have to accept the risk that what they've deployed might not > > comply with the eventual RFC. > > > > Regards, > > Mark. > > > > [Gyan] For IPv6 addressing you can have any length prefix up to > > /128. i am all for flexibility with vlsm even though may not be > > widely used. > > > > SRv6 SID encoding differs in that we had 3 fields > > {locator;function;arguments} that I think it makes sense to be fixed > > in the specification as Ron has brought up. > > > > From an operator perspective for programmability as SRv6 > > deployments with or without centralized controller, fixed length of > > the 3 fields makes sense so operators can easily craft ACLs for > > deployments. > > > > I think we could go crazy with the sizing but I think since 64 bit > > boundary exists today for slaac we could make the locator /64 as > > well is fine. We could split the other 2 fields evenly 32 bits each > > or make the function longer. I think we=E2=80=99ll defined sizing is > > important so SID addressing plan is not chaotic. > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > Pablo. > > > > [1] > > > https://speakerdeck.com/line_developers/line-data-center-networking-with-= srv6 > > > > =EF=BB=BF-----Original Message----- > > From: spring > >> on behalf of Alexandre > > Petrescu > >> > > Date: Thursday, 19 December 2019 at 09:44 > > To: "spring@ietf.org " > > > > > Subject: Re: [spring] 64-bit locators > > > > > > > > Le 19/12/2019 =C3=A0 00:13, Mark Smith a =C3=A9crit : > > [...] > > > > > VLSM [variable length subnet mask] is fundamentally hard, > > > > We need VLSM in other places too, such as in ULA > > prefixes fd and fc. > > > > I think it is indeed a difficult to grasp concept, but > > it is there for > > growth. > > > > Alex > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > Mark. > > > > > > __ > > > > > > In this case, we should probably change the > > document to reflect > > > implemented behavior.____ > > > > > > __ __ > > > > > > > > > > > Ron____ > > > > > > __ __ > > > > > > > > > Juniper Business Use Only > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > spring mailing list > > > spring@ietf.org > > > >> > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > spring mailing list > > > spring@ietf.org > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > spring mailing list > > spring@ietf.org > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > spring mailing list > > spring@ietf.org > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > > > > _______________________________________________ > > spring mailing list > > spring@ietf.org > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > > > > -- > > > > Gyan S. Mishra > > > > IT Network Engineering & Technology > > > > Verizon Communications Inc. (VZ) > > > > 13101 Columbia Pike FDC1 3rd Floor > > > > Silver Spring, MD 20904 > > > > United States > > > > Phone: 301 502-1347 > > > > Email: gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com > > > > > www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies-consultant > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > spring mailing list > > spring@ietf.org > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > > > > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > --0000000000009124e8059a2491db Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> So =C2=A0we are left with a chicken and egg situation= =E2=80=93 is the SID an address or isn=E2=80=99t it.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
=

I do not see here neither chicken nor an egg here. SID = definition for SRv6 is very clear. It is <LOC:FUNC:ARG>.=C2=A0
<= div>
Done.=C2=A0

Obviously LOCator p= art is routable.=C2=A0

Thx,
R.

<= div class=3D"gmail_quote">
On Fri, Dec= 20, 2019 at 4:33 PM Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com> wrote:

+1

=C2=A0

I have long argued that SRv6 es= sentially redefines and overloads the ipv6 address as defined =E2=80=93 the= argument that I have been given is that the SID is in fact not an address = =E2=80=93 however =E2=80=93 by virtue of the fact that the SID in SRv6 is copied into the ad= dress field during traffic steering =E2=80=93 and routing occurs based on t= hat DA =E2=80=93 it most certainly is an address.

=C2=A0

So =C2=A0we are left with a chi= cken and egg situation =E2=80=93 is the SID an address or isn=E2=80=99t it.= =C2=A0 If it isn=E2=80=99t =E2=80=93 I 100% agree with you that something e= lse should be used =E2=80=93 in which case how do you address the steering issue.=C2=A0 If it is an address =E2=80=93 then this = draft fundamentally redefines the IPv6 address semantics =E2=80=93 and I wo= uld argue that should only be done by an update of RFC4291, and potentially= a number of other documents which rely on the current semantic.

=C2=A0

But =E2=80=93 either way =E2=80= =93 I do not think we can argue that the SID and a v6 address are currently= different things in the drafts =E2=80=93 since a SID is copied into the DA= field =E2=80=93 and used to route on =E2=80=93 and while that remains =E2=80=93 I have stated before, and wi= ll state again, I have deep concerns as to the unknown consequences of fund= amentally changing the semantics of an address as it was defined in other R= FC=E2=80=99s and as have wide deployment.

=C2=A0

Thanks

=C2=A0

Andrew

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

From: spring <spring-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Alexandre Petrescu
Sent: Friday, 20 December 2019 18:19
To: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>; Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
Cc: SPRING WG <spring@ietf.org>; Mark Smith <markzzzsmith@gmail.com>; Pablo Camarillo= (pcamaril) <pca= maril@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: [spring] 64-bit locators

=C2=A0



Le 20/12/2019 =C3=A0 00:07, Robert Raszuk a =C3=A9crit=C2=A0:
>
> Fixed length=C2=A0of any field LOC:FUNC:ARGs makes no sense to me. Wha= t is
> optimal for Ron or Mark may not be optimal for me.

I think I can legitimately wonder whether the 'SID' Segment Identfi= er
should not be something else than an IP address.

Making a SID an IP address might lead to other well-known confusions
like in OSPF: there is a Router ID which is an IP address in some
manufacturer's speak, it works fine, but it does not reply to ping unde= r
any configuration whatsoever.

That is not a good thing. The router id looks like an IP address but it is not one. When migrating OSPF to IPv6 all was changed but the Router
ID stayed like an IPv4 address. So it is an IPv6 OSPF but has some IPv4 in it.

The column-hextet notation, or more precisely something like
"2001:db8::", denotes an IP address. Not only is it a Documentait= on
Prefix, but it is an IP address. There is an RFC for it. It is somehow
reserved and it shouldnt be used for something else, otherwise it
creates confusion.

It could be easy to create a new space for SID, with its distinct
notation, like 64bit identifiers "ab_cd_ef_gh_01_02__". Nobody wo= uld
try to ping these because they dont look like IP addresses.

Then, we might wonder whether these SIDs should be fixed or variable length= .

Alex

>
> While we are at that fixed size of 128 bits of IPv6 also makes no sens= e
> - but that vessel left the harbour a while ago.
>
> Cheers,
> R.
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 10:57 PM Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com
> <mai= lto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 4:17 PM Mark Smith <markzzzsmith@gmail.com
> <ma= ilto:markzzzsmith@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>
>
> On Thu, 19 Dec 2019, 22:48 Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril),
> <pcamaril@cisco.com <mailto:pcamaril@cisco.com&g= t;> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> As mentioned in the draft, the choice of the locator length
> is deployment specific.
> LINE has deployed SRv6 using a locator different than a /64.
>
>
> This is effectively an appeal to authority.
>
> What makes what LINE has done the best and right thing to do?
>
> I can already see they're using the IPv4 link-local 169.254/16
> prefix in a manner that wildly violates how it is specified to
> be used in RFC3927. See Slides 9, 12, 24.
>
> Tying your IPv6 addressing plan to IPv4 addressing could end up
> imposing IPv4's addressing limitations on IPv6 - defeating the
> primary purpose of IPv6 - providing many more addresses than IPv4.
>
> Slide 32 shows they're violating RFC 4193 (IPv6 ULAs), because
> they're using ULA-Cs ('fc') rather than ULA-Ls ('fd= 9;), despite
> there being no central registry.=C2=A0 Their 40 bit Global ID of "= ;17"
> could be random, although I'm guessing not, as random numbers
> would usually have far less zeros in them. These sorts of ULA
> errors are why I presented "Getting IPv6 Addressing Right" a= t
> AusNOG this year -
> https://www.slideshare.net/markzzzsmith/ausnog-2019-getting-ipv6-private-ad= dressing-right=C2=A0.
>
>
> This is an Internet Draft, so this is the best time to make
> these sorts of changes, as it is much easier now. When things
> become RFCs it becomes much harder (and much, much harder when
> they become Internet Standards).
>
> If somebody has deployed Internet Draft level technology, they
> have to accept the risk that what they've deployed might not
> comply with the eventual RFC.
>
> Regards,
> Mark.
>
> =C2=A0[Gyan] For IPv6 addressing you can have any length prefix up to<= br> > /128. =C2=A0i am all for flexibility with vlsm even though may not be<= br> > widely used.
>
> SRv6 SID encoding differs in that we had 3 fields
> {locator;function;arguments} that I think it makes sense to be fixed > in the specification as Ron has brought up.
>
> From an operator perspective for programmability as SRv6
> deployments with or without centralized controller, fixed length of > the 3 fields makes sense so operators can easily craft ACLs for
> deployments.
>
> I think we could go crazy with the sizing but I think since 64 bit
> boundary exists today for slaac we could make the locator /64 as
> well is fine.=C2=A0 We could split the other 2 fields evenly 32 bits e= ach
> or make the function longer.=C2=A0 I think we=E2=80=99ll defined sizin= g is
> important so SID addressing plan is not chaotic.
>
>
>
>
> Cheers,
> Pablo.
>
> [1]
> https://speakerdeck.com/line_developers/line-data-center-networking-with-sr= v6
>
> =EF=BB=BF-----Original Message-----
> From: spring <spring-bounces@ietf.org
> <m= ailto:spring-bounces@ietf.org>> on behalf of Alexandre
> Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com
> <mailto:alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>>
> Date: Thursday, 19 December 2019 at 09:44
> To: "spring@ietf.org <mailto:spring@ietf.org>&= quot;
> <spring@ietf.org <mailto:spring@ietf.org>>
> Subject: Re: [spring] 64-bit locators
>
>
>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Le 19/12/2019 =C3=A0 00:13, Mark Smith a =C3=A9crit : > =C2=A0 =C2=A0 [...]
>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > VLSM [variable length subnet mask] is fundamentally= hard,
>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 We need VLSM in other places too, such as in ULA
> prefixes fd and fc.
>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 I think it is indeed a difficult to grasp concept, but > it is there for
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 growth.
>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Alex
>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > Regards,
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > Mark.
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0__
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0In this case, we should probably= change the
> document to reflect
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0implemented behavior.____
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0__ __
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = Ron____
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0__ __
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Juniper Business Use Only
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0________________________________= _______________
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0spring mailing list
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > spring@ietf.org <mailto:spring@ietf.org>
> <mailto:spring@ietf.org <mailto:spring@ietf.org>>= ;
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > _______________________________________________
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > spring mailing list
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > spring@ietf.org <mailto:spring@ietf.org>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 _______________________________________________
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>
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> spring@ietf.org <mailto:spring@i= etf.org>
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
>
> --
>
> Gyan S. Mishra
>
> IT Network Engineering & Technology
>
> Verizon Communications=C2=A0Inc. (VZ)
>
> 13101 Columbia Pike FDC1 3rd Floor
>
> Silver Spring, MD 20904
>
> United States
>
> Phone:=C2=A0301 502-1347
>
> Email: = gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com <mailto:gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com>
>
> www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies-consultant
> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologie= s-consultant>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> spring mailing list
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> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
>

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Mark Smith , "Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)" Thread-Topic: [spring] 64-bit locators Thread-Index: AdW1xQ51WdCKfYi8Srq12h55LZUKvwAM7yQAABPs9wAACIEPAAARyE4AAAFrlwAAAm2tAAAh79OAAAASruAAANoaAAAAIVcA Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2019 15:50:14 +0000 Message-ID: References: <8f5607c9-645a-ea88-e2a7-a4bed8206fc8@gmail.com> <63F5AA66-AEF8-4278-B98C-D3C53AC5A60A@cisco.com> <069e6021-537c-422a-37da-f090a6ac334b@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [2c0f:fe40:3:1:885a:9913:a5d8:815f] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-ht: Tenant x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: a61e9195-6624-48e5-0cf8-08d785644deb x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: DBBPR03MB5368: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:7691; x-forefront-prvs: 025796F161 x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; 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(pcamaril)" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000001cfab4059a24bd2f" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] 64-bit locators X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2019 15:57:51 -0000 --0000000000001cfab4059a24bd2f Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > Therefore =E2=80=93 this redefines the address semantics =E2=80=93 and th= at =E2=80=93 should be > accompanied by an update to said drafts to avoid confusion and to avoid > potential future complications > Please observe that we have a lot of IETF documents putting various stuff into IPv6 128 bits. Take rfc7599 as an easy example. Where do you see anyone in IETF requested to update IPv6 base specs when any of such documents were going via standards track ? Cheers, R. > --0000000000001cfab4059a24bd2f Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
=C2=A0

Therefore =E2=80=93 this redefines the address semantics =E2=80=93 and= that =E2=80=93 should be accompanied by an update to said drafts to avoid = confusion and to avoid potential future complications


Please observe that we have a lot of IETF= documents putting various stuff into IPv6 128 bits. Take rfc7599 as an eas= y example. Where do you see anyone in IETF requested to update IPv6 base sp= ecs when any of such documents=C2=A0were going via standards track ?=C2=A0<= /div>

Cheers,
R.
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by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CCC4912016E for ; Fri, 20 Dec 2019 08:18:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from EUR04-HE1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-he1eur04lp2051.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.13.51]) (Using TLS) by relay.mimecast.com with ESMTP id uk-mta-50-isG8qSr9M2iTKWsq5debdA-1; Fri, 20 Dec 2019 16:18:06 +0000 Received: from DBBPR03MB5415.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com (20.179.47.79) by DBBPR03MB5270.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com (20.179.45.205) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.2559.15; Fri, 20 Dec 2019 16:18:04 +0000 Received: from DBBPR03MB5415.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::f4ba:55b5:8f6c:5256]) by DBBPR03MB5415.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::f4ba:55b5:8f6c:5256%5]) with mapi id 15.20.2559.015; Fri, 20 Dec 2019 16:18:04 +0000 From: Andrew Alston To: Robert Raszuk CC: Alexandre Petrescu , Gyan Mishra , SPRING WG , Mark Smith , "Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)" Thread-Topic: [spring] 64-bit 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DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=raszuk.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gjRvSIsfD-KP for ; Fri, 20 Dec 2019 08:24:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qv1-xf2c.google.com (mail-qv1-xf2c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::f2c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 59620120840 for ; Fri, 20 Dec 2019 08:24:24 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qv1-xf2c.google.com with SMTP id y8so3823276qvk.6 for ; Fri, 20 Dec 2019 08:24:24 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=raszuk.net; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; 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X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAV67+vhCw4nnLYV815iI6w0M1iVOVQvIbrLD18swCM4ac2rWAib ZTZRnrGtj9EDKJMjR5Vfgec2Or708KX9p340u2syZA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqz0IzUsOQP2Lb0scMxT89McmLVryT+7tHQ0oox02tguSvLJbOP6ScWbr8AZbDAYEDicXTc9KalLQYqtKaGZ/qI= X-Received: by 2002:a0c:e84d:: with SMTP id l13mr13086436qvo.53.1576859063277; Fri, 20 Dec 2019 08:24:23 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <8f5607c9-645a-ea88-e2a7-a4bed8206fc8@gmail.com> <63F5AA66-AEF8-4278-B98C-D3C53AC5A60A@cisco.com> <069e6021-537c-422a-37da-f090a6ac334b@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: From: Robert Raszuk Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2019 17:24:08 +0100 Message-ID: To: Andrew Alston Cc: Alexandre Petrescu , Gyan Mishra , SPRING WG , Mark Smith , "Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000053f274059a251c54" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] 64-bit locators X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2019 16:24:30 -0000 --00000000000053f274059a251c54 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Really ? If in an implementation SID would be just a logical interface on a box doesn't it deserve to be both routable as well as have an arbitrary opaque ID assigned to it ? On Fri, Dec 20, 2019 at 5:18 PM Andrew Alston < Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com> wrote: > In my view =E2=80=93 there is a fundamental difference. > > > > The stated rfc refers to a derived interface identifier =E2=80=93 with an > interface identifier being a well defined concept in RFC4291 =E2=80=93 it= specifies > the actions taken on said interface identifier =E2=80=93 it does not alte= r the > specification. > > > > Here =E2=80=93 you have gone way beyond that. > > > > This actually eliminates the interface identifier from the address and > replaces the interface identifier with something that has no bearing on a= n > interface =E2=80=93 that is a redefinition of the specification. > > > > Andrew > > > > *From:* Robert Raszuk > *Sent:* Friday, 20 December 2019 18:58 > *To:* Andrew Alston > *Cc:* Alexandre Petrescu ; Gyan Mishra < > hayabusagsm@gmail.com>; SPRING WG ; Mark Smith < > markzzzsmith@gmail.com>; Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril) > *Subject:* Re: [spring] 64-bit locators > > > > > > Therefore =E2=80=93 this redefines the address semantics =E2=80=93 and th= at =E2=80=93 should be > accompanied by an update to said drafts to avoid confusion and to avoid > potential future complications > > > > Please observe that we have a lot of IETF documents putting various stuff > into IPv6 128 bits. Take rfc7599 as an easy example. Where do you see > anyone in IETF requested to update IPv6 base specs when any of such > documents were going via standards track ? > > > > Cheers, > R. > --00000000000053f274059a251c54 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Really ?=C2=A0

If in an implementation = SID would be just a logical interface on a box doesn't it deserve to be= both routable as well as have an arbitrary opaque ID assigned to it ?=C2= =A0

On Fri, Dec 20, 2019 at 5:18 PM Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.c= om> wrote:

In my view =E2=80=93 there is a= fundamental difference.

=C2=A0

The stated rfc refers to a deri= ved interface identifier =E2=80=93 with an interface identifier being a wel= l defined concept in RFC4291 =E2=80=93 it specifies the actions taken on sa= id interface identifier =E2=80=93 it does not alter the specification.

=C2=A0

Here =E2=80=93 you have gone wa= y beyond that.

=C2=A0

This actually eliminates the in= terface identifier from the address and replaces the interface identifier w= ith something that has no bearing on an interface =E2=80=93 that is a redef= inition of the specification.

=C2=A0

Andrew

=C2=A0

From: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Sent: Friday, 20 December 2019 18:58
To: Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com>
Cc: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>; Gyan Mishra = <hayabusagsm@= gmail.com>; SPRING WG <spring@ietf.org>; Mark Smith <markzzzsmith@gmail.com>; Pablo = Camarillo (pcamaril) <pcamaril@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: [spring] 64-bit locators

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Therefore =E2=80=93 this redefi= nes the address semantics =E2=80=93 and that =E2=80=93 should be accompanie= d by an update to said drafts to avoid confusion and to avoid potential fut= ure complications

=C2=A0

Please observe that we have a lot of IETF documents = putting various stuff into IPv6 128 bits. Take rfc7599 as an easy example. = Where do you see anyone in IETF requested to update IPv6 base specs when an= y of such documents=C2=A0were going via standards track ?=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Cheers,
R.

--00000000000053f274059a251c54-- From nobody Fri Dec 20 08:58:02 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC72312084D for ; Fri, 20 Dec 2019 08:58:00 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.597 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.597 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id W6clYriacGCM for ; Fri, 20 Dec 2019 08:57:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from relais-inet.orange.com (relais-inet.orange.com [80.12.66.41]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0CF25120859 for ; Fri, 20 Dec 2019 08:57:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from opfedar06.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.8]) by opfedar26.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 47fZgT1BYGzFqQt for ; Fri, 20 Dec 2019 17:57:57 +0100 (CET) Received: from Exchangemail-eme6.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.13.42]) by opfedar06.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 47fZgT0Kq3z3wbV for ; Fri, 20 Dec 2019 17:57:57 +0100 (CET) Received: from OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::b846:2467:1591:5d9d]) by OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0468.000; Fri, 20 Dec 2019 17:57:57 +0100 From: To: 'SPRING WG List' Thread-Topic: WG status - pending calls Thread-Index: AdW3VRibbwDDUKaATWa2S/ScjKOqUg== Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2019 16:57:56 +0000 Message-ID: <19505_1576861077_5DFCFD95_19505_187_12_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D3BD97@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.247] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D3BD97OPEXCAUBM43corp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: [spring] WG status - pending calls X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2019 16:58:01 -0000 --_000_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D3BD97OPEXCAUBM43corp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi SPRING, A number of authors have asked for their document to be adopted or last cal= led. Chairs have some backlog on this. The WG has also been pretty busy over the= last 6 months with a set of subjects triggering many emails and this is no= t always the best time to ask for review of additional documents (versus sh= ort '+1'). Chairs/WG will work on this calls in 2020. In the meantime, for a better tr= ansparency, Shuping has been kind enough to track this on the wiki https://= trac.ietf.org/trac/spring Thank you Shuping. If your document is missing from the list of pending calls for adoption/las= t call, please send an email to the chairs or to the list, as you wish. Otherwise, your request is been tracked. Content of this page is subject to change. In particular, the goal is not t= o duplicate the information already tracked in the ietf datatracker. E.g. h= ttps://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/search?name=3D&sort=3D&activedrafts=3Don&by= =3Dgroup&group=3Dspring I take this opportunity to wish everyone Merry Christmas, an Happy New Year= and possibly Happy Holidays. --Bruno ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el= ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been = modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. --_000_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D3BD97OPEXCAUBM43corp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi SPRING,

 

A number of authors have asked for their document to be adopted or last = called.

Chairs have some backlog on this. The WG has also been pretty busy over = the last 6 months with a set of subjects triggering many emails and this is= not always the best time to ask for review of additional documents (versus short ‘+1’).

Chairs/WG will work on this calls in 2020. In the meantime, for a better= transparency, Shuping has been kind enough to track this on the wiki https://trac.ietf.org/trac/sp= ring Thank you Shuping.

If your document is missing from the list of pending calls for adoption/= last call, please send an email to the chairs or to the list, as you wish.<= o:p>

Otherwise, your request is been tracked.

 

Content of this page is subject to change. In particular, the goal is no= t to duplicate the information already tracked in the ietf datatracker. E.g. https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/search?name=3D&sort=3D&activedraft= s=3Don&by=3Dgroup&group=3Dspring

 

I take this opportunity to wish everyone Merry Christmas, an Happy New Y= ear and possibly Happy Holidays.

--Bruno

 

 

______________________________________________________________________=
___________________________________________________

Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden=
tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu=
 ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el=
ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou =
falsifie. Merci.

This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf=
ormation that may be protected by law;
they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele=
te this message and its attachments.
As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been =
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Thank you.
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b=QRbpyKYfucsmeSen4mnXdIU1vHrbOJ2j7fFfxgmuK9pv05dqxN/R+nNLSKl8HMZR+Lk1h6n5yOMYVfFyorkm3Mxj4gUsUdx1iQQkQQGwIKtJH/1SEA4LX8296ktUMveqha8kkD3xx9MDnqt72BkN2tUKQOuZgaXf3ggERjFO63o= Received: from MWHPR11MB1374.namprd11.prod.outlook.com (10.169.234.8) by MWHPR11MB1646.namprd11.prod.outlook.com (10.172.54.9) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.2538.19; Fri, 20 Dec 2019 17:38:03 +0000 Received: from MWHPR11MB1374.namprd11.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::b04b:c9bb:2378:7a8d]) by MWHPR11MB1374.namprd11.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::b04b:c9bb:2378:7a8d%11]) with mapi id 15.20.2559.016; Fri, 20 Dec 2019 17:38:03 +0000 From: "Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)" To: Ron Bonica , "Joel M. Halpern" , "spring@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [spring] Is srv6 PSP a good idea Thread-Index: AQHVr85jMV33kJTkH0WlnUgh9KVMGKe15N2AgAEXEoCAAnzoAIAE/jYAgATx/AA= Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2019 17:36:01 +0000 Message-ID: <81A30B25-9857-467E-85AE-1FE84B6F3197@cisco.com> References: <5c2a4b36-0c59-709e-23eb-00f4aa1ce52f@joelhalpern.com> <9B89F4C2-5594-4D31-8893-21F3F4A0DF6C@cisco.com> <58ED78D3-9E0C-4556-8853-8754B361DF6D@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-GB X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/10.20.0.191208 authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=pcamaril@cisco.com; x-originating-ip: [173.38.220.35] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: f141de0b-8357-4e06-ad31-08d785735d7f x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: MWHPR11MB1646: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:10000; x-forefront-prvs: 025796F161 x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; 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[111.69.147.228]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id h128sm18573552pfe.172.2019.12.21.11.22.29 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 21 Dec 2019 11:22:31 -0800 (PST) To: Robert Raszuk Cc: "Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)" , "spring@ietf.org" References: <157609408568.11496.11799785813274132900@ietfa.amsl.com> <4c762fc5-8a61-e182-a9cc-d45b0f586ccc@gmail.com> <3A12D735-7899-4679-8FC8-DF8875D40A62@cisco.com> <628e5dfb-7ba4-d841-ebeb-cfc52d7294f1@gmail.com> <49b7e45f-a26f-cf4a-f8be-9aa917c34203@gmail.com> <0f492db1-d168-473c-8447-9e08d51c2039@gmail.com> From: Brian E Carpenter Message-ID: <42cac054-ac09-fff3-4ed1-1890c7803ec9@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2019 08:22:28 +1300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] I-D Action: draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-06.txt X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2019 19:22:35 -0000 On 20-Dec-19 22:18, Robert Raszuk wrote: > Hi Brian, > > Right, but the language in the PSP sub-section does not talk about decapsulation. > > > Sure as in a way there is no decapsulation there. This is Segment N-1 node not Final Segment End node. If there is no decapsulation and the words mean what they say, then there is certainly a violation of RFC 8200. That needs to be said *explicitly* in the text so that the community can decide what to do about it. > > Of course the other way to look at this would be to conceptually describe this as decapsulation at *each* segment end point and on most just copy the SRH to a new IPv6 header and on PSP happening on Segment N-1 to not copy it. No, we're not talking about "conceptual" decapsulation. If a packet addressed to address A contains a packet addressed to address B, it isn't going to get to B unless A physically decapsulates it. (Since we're in a state where Segments Left == 0, we're already at the end of the segment list in the RH, so I don't see where Segment N-1 comes in.) Where are the diagrams showing example packets to illustrate exactly what happens during PSP? > > I think the root problem may be using the word "pop", which is relevant in the MPLS label stack context but not here, without additional definition. > > > Well I agree. "POP" does not sound like the best terminology choice here for SRH removal or deletion :). Now all what is needed for WG to convince Pablo for massive editing .... Yes, but that is precisely because MPLS is designed to support a label stack with pushing and popping, and IPv6 is not designed that way. So "pop" really is completely false terminology when referring to an IPv6 header. If the explanation was that the original packet is fully decapsulated at the PSP node, so that the SRH disappears along with the rest of the encapsulating header, we wouldn't be having this conversation. > Happy Holidays, Indeed! 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[111.69.147.228]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 81sm18644497pfx.30.2019.12.21.11.33.27 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 21 Dec 2019 11:33:28 -0800 (PST) To: "Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)" Cc: "spring@ietf.org" References: <157609408568.11496.11799785813274132900@ietfa.amsl.com> <4c762fc5-8a61-e182-a9cc-d45b0f586ccc@gmail.com> <3A12D735-7899-4679-8FC8-DF8875D40A62@cisco.com> <628e5dfb-7ba4-d841-ebeb-cfc52d7294f1@gmail.com> <49b7e45f-a26f-cf4a-f8be-9aa917c34203@gmail.com> <7EA318BC-20C2-447C-AD43-9510B859F51D@cisco.com> From: Brian E Carpenter Message-ID: <108693d1-472d-8170-02a7-37997a502e9c@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2019 08:33:26 +1300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <7EA318BC-20C2-447C-AD43-9510B859F51D@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] I-D Action: draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-06.txt X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2019 19:33:33 -0000 Comment at the end: On 21-Dec-19 06:30, Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril) wrote: > Inline. >=20 > Thanks. >=20 > =EF=BB=BF-----Original Message----- > From: Brian E Carpenter > Date: Thursday, 19 December 2019 at 22:39 > To: "Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)" , "spring@ietf.org= " > Subject: Re: [spring] I-D Action: draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-progra= mming-06.txt >=20 > Sorry, I am still confused, see in line: > =20 > On 20-Dec-19 00:53, Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril) wrote: > > Brian, > >=20 > > Inline. > >=20 > > Thank you, > > Pablo. > >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Brian E Carpenter > > Date: Saturday, 14 December 2019 at 21:04 > > To: "Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)" , "spring@ie= tf.org" > > Subject: Re: [spring] I-D Action: draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-= programming-06.txt > >=20 > > Hi Pablo, > > =20 > > See in line: > > =20 > > On 14-Dec-19 22:34, Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril) wrote: > > > Brian, > > >=20 > > > Many thanks for having another look to the draft. Please se= e inline [PC]. > > >=20 > > > Thank you, > > > Pablo. > > >=20 > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: spring on behalf of Brian E= Carpenter > > > Date: Wednesday, 11 December 2019 at 23:06 > > > To: "spring@ietf.org" > > > Subject: Re: [spring] I-D Action: draft-ietf-spring-srv6-ne= twork-programming-06.txt > > >=20 > > > So, I've tried to look at this with fresh eyes, and tha= nks for the > > > various updates and clarifications. > > > =20 > > > (I'm still not on the SPRING list so please leave me in= CC.) > > > =20 > > > I remain a bit puzzled. First, a quote from the SRH spe= cification > > > (draft-ietf-6man-segment-routing-header-26): > > > =20 > > > > 4.2. Transit Node > > > >=20 > > > > As specified in [RFC8200], the only node allowed t= o inspect the > > > > Routing Extension Header (and therefore the SRH), = is the node > > > > corresponding to the DA of the packet. Any other = transit node MUST > > > > NOT inspect the underneath routing header and MUST= forward the packet > > > > toward the DA according to its IPv6 routing table.= > > > =20 > > > Next, a quote from the current draft: > > > =20 > > > > SRH[n]: A shorter representation of Segment List[n= ], as defined in > > > > [I-D.ietf-6man-segment-routing-header]. > > > >=20 > > > > When a packet is intercepted on a wire, it is poss= ible that SRH[SL] > > > > is different from the DA. > > > =20 > > > Huh? That would be extremely unusual in the normal inte= rpretation > > > of a routing header, where is RH[SL] is by definition t= he next > > > destination where the RH will be processed. Any other n= ode is a transit > > > node, and I don't see anything in draft-ietf-6man-segme= nt-routing-header-26 > > > that allows for anything else. So it seems to me that t= he quoted statement > > > needs an explanation of why it isn't a violation of > > > draft-ietf-6man-segment-routing-header-26, not to menti= on why it's useful. > > >=20 > > > PC: This occurs when we use the reduced SRH as described in= : https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-6man-segment-routing-header-26#s= ection-4.1.1 > >=20 > > OK, well that definitely needs to be added to the draft, sinc= e it is very far from > > obvious to a newcomer. > >=20 > > PC: I have removed this sentence from the latest revision of the = draft. Unneeded, misleading and covered in the SRH. See rev07. Thank you = for your comment. > =20 > Thanks. > =20 > >=20 > > > If you think this sentence does not reflect that, I can edi= t it for the next revision of the draft.=20 > > > =20 > > > That leads us back to: > > > =20 > > > > 4.16.1. PSP: Penultimate Segment Pop of the SRH > > > >=20 > > > > The SRH processing of the End, End.X and End.T beh= aviors are > > > > modified: after the instruction "S14. Update IPv6= DA with Segment > > > > List[Segments Left]" is executed, the following in= structions must be > > > > executed as well: > > > >=20 > > > > S14.1. If (Segments Left =3D=3D 0) { > > > > S14.2. Update the Next Header field in the prec= eding header to the > > > > Next Header value of the SRH > > > > S14.3. Decrease the IPv6 header Payload Length = by the Hdr Ext Len > > > > value of the SRH > > > > S14.4. Remove the SRH from the IPv6 extension h= eader chain > > > > S14.5. } > > > =20 > > > This is clearly a breach of RFC8200, but it can never b= e reached if DA =3D=3D SRH[SL].=20 > > =20 > > > PC: PSP executes at the segment that is the Destination Add= ress. > > =20 > > I am probably being stupid, but I don't understand what is "p= enultimate" about > > a condition where SL =3D=3D 0 and the packet has reached the = node that owns DA. > > Where will the packet be sent next, since it's already at the= final DA? > >=20 > > PC: You are reading line 14 of a pseudocode. In the previous line= s we have received a packet with Segments Left =3D 1, and we have decreme= nted by one such value. > =20 > If I have this right, the PSP case is inserted in this pseudocode: > =20 > S14. Update IPv6 DA with Segment List[Segments Left] > S15. Submit the packet to the egress IPv6 FIB lookup and > transmission to the new destination > =20 > which produces: > =20 > S14. Update IPv6 DA with Segment List[Segments Left] > S14.1. If (Segments Left =3D=3D 0) { > S14.2. Update the Next Header field in the preceding header = to the > Next Header value of the SRH > S14.3. Decrease the IPv6 header Payload Length by the Hdr Ex= t Len > value of the SRH > S14.4. Remove the SRH from the IPv6 extension header chain > S14.5. } > S15. Submit the packet to the egress IPv6 FIB lookup and > transmission to the new destination > =20 > That's explicitly removing the header before forwarding the packet.= How > can that not be a violation of RFC 8200? And where is it forwarded = to, since > we are already at the DA? >=20 > PC: > I receive a packet at the node identified in the Destination Address fi= eld of the IPv6 header. > I process the extension header and delete it (in that same node). > The packet, with the updated Destination Address, is forwarded towards = the node identified in the Destination Address field of the IPv6 header. Thanks, I understand that. I think that after the holidays we need to tak= e that explanation back to 6MAN, where I suspect we will find strong obje= ctions. This means that two strange things are happening to the packet: i= n-flight deletion of a header and NAT. As I just said to Robert, MPLS was designed in a way that makes this natu= ral, but IPv6 wasn't. The natural solution for IPv6 is Penultimate Segmen= t Decapsulation, not PSP, I think. 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boundary="_000_BN7PR05MB5699B27F84C5E8051028D97AAE2C0BN7PR05MB5699namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 4cdbd5cb-2054-4dd2-9eb4-08d786504b39 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 21 Dec 2019 19:59:30.8800 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: fp+w9OqzkNSxwYHtUasPHhL6dZTBkO6+VEKR5fz01HTaiDCNt61MfuQsqjgkx/EDl4EQe6XwTVjT1PtEDtw94w== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN7PR05MB5922 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.95,18.0.572 definitions=2019-12-21_06:2019-12-17,2019-12-21 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_spam_notspam policy=outbound_spam score=0 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 clxscore=1015 impostorscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 priorityscore=1501 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-1910280000 definitions=main-1912210176 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] SRv6 Network Programming - ICMP Source Address Selection X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2019 19:59:39 -0000 --_000_BN7PR05MB5699B27F84C5E8051028D97AAE2C0BN7PR05MB5699namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Pablo, Section 2.2 of RFC 4443 offers the following options: " (a) If the message is a response to a message sent to one of the node's unicast addresses, the Source Address of the reply MUST be that same address. (b) If the message is a response to a message sent to any other address, such as - a multicast group address, - an anycast address implemented by the node, or - a unicast address that does not belong to the node the Source Address of the ICMPv6 packet MUST be a unicast address belonging to the node. " So, the question boils down to whether you consider a SID to be one of the = node's unicast addresses. If so, the answer is a). If not, the answer is b)= . So, which is it? Happy Holidays, Ron Juniper Business Use Only From: Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril) Sent: Friday, December 20, 2019 12:30 PM To: Ron Bonica Cc: spring@ietf.org Subject: Re: [spring] SRv6 Network Programming - ICMP Source Address Select= ion Ron, I guess that draft-ietf-6man-segment-routing-header does not contain any ex= plicit text about it because it is not needed. Instead draft-ietf-6man-segment-routing-header contains a reference to RFC4= 443 that details in section 2.2 how to select it. There is no text in draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming that changes= such behavior. Happy Holidays, Pablo. From: spring > on b= ehalf of Ron Bonica > Date: Thursday, 19 December 2019 at 14:59 To: "Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)" >, "spring@ietf.org" > Subject: Re: [spring] SRv6 Network Programming - ICMP Source Address Select= ion Pablo, Can you provide a specific reference into draft-ietf-6man-segment-routing-h= eader? I can't find the answer to my question in there. = Ron Juniper Business Use Only From: Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril) > Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2019 6:47 AM To: Ron Bonica >; spring@ie= tf.org Subject: Re: SRv6 Network Programming - ICMP Source Address Selection Ron, This is exactly the same as in the SRH. There is no text in draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming that changes= this. Cheers, Pablo. From: Ron Bonica > Date: Monday, 9 December 2019 at 23:48 To: "Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)" >, SPRING WG >, 6man <6man@ietf= .org> Subject: RE: SRv6 Network Programming - ICMP Source Address Selection Pablo, Section 2.2 of RFC 4443 offers two options. If you think that a SID is a un= icast address, the first option is applicable. If you think that a SID is n= ot a unicast address, the second option is applicable. Which did you choose? Ro= n Juniper Business Use Only From: Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril) > Sent: Monday, December 9, 2019 10:18 AM To: Ron Bonica >; SPRING WG= >; 6man <6man@ietf.org> Subject: Re: SRv6 Network Programming - ICMP Source Address Selection Ron, As you pointed out in your email, RFC4443 Section 2.2 is very clear about h= ow to select the source address. draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming does not change this. Thanks, Pablo. From: ipv6 > on behalf = of Ron Bonica > Date: Friday, 6 December 2019 at 17:40 To: SPRING WG >, 6man <6man@ietf.or= g> Subject: SRv6 Network Programming - ICMP Source Address Selection Authors, When an SRv6 node sends an ICMP message, how does it select the ICMP messag= e's source address? Section 2.2 of RFC 4443 offers two options. If you think that a SID is a un= icast address, the first option is applicable. If you think that a SID is n= ot a unicast address, the second option is applicable. Ron Juniper Business Use Only --_000_BN7PR05MB5699B27F84C5E8051028D97AAE2C0BN7PR05MB5699namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Pablo,

 

Section 2.2 of RFC 4443 offers the following options= :

 

“   (a) If the message is a response= to a message sent to one of the

       node's unicast = addresses, the Source Address of the reply MUST be

       that same addre= ss.

 

   (b) If the message is a response to a m= essage sent to any other

       address, such a= s

 

       - a multicast g= roup address,

       - an anycast ad= dress implemented by the node, or

       - a unicast add= ress that does not belong to the node

 

      the Source Address of= the ICMPv6 packet MUST be a unicast address

      belonging to the node= . “

 

So, the question boils down to whether you consider = a SID to be one of the node’s unicast addresses. If so, the answer is= a). If not, the answer is b).

 

So, which is it?

 

        &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;     Happy Holidays,

        &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;          Ron<= /p>

 

 

 

 

Juniper Business Use Only

From: Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril) <pcamaril= @cisco.com>
Sent: Friday, December 20, 2019 12:30 PM
To: Ron Bonica <rbonica@juniper.net>
Cc: spring@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [spring] SRv6 Network Programming - ICMP Source Address= Selection

 

Ron,

 

I guess that draft-ietf-6man-se= gment-routing-header does not contain any explicit text about it because it= is not needed.

Instead draft-ietf-6man-segment= -routing-header contains a reference to RFC4443 that details in section 2.2= how to select it.

 

There is no text in draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-p= rogramming that changes such behavior.

 

Happy Holidays,

Pablo.

 

From: spring <spring-bounces@ietf.org> on beha= lf of Ron Bonica <rbonica=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>
Date: Thursday, 19 December 2019 at 14:59
To: "Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)" <pcamaril@cisco.com>, "spring@ietf.org" <spring@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [spring] SRv6 Network Programming - ICMP Source Address= Selection

 

Pablo,

 

Can you provide a specifi= c reference into draft-ietf-6man-segment-routing-header? I can’t find= the answer to my question in there.

 

    &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;         Ron

 

 

 

 

Juniper Business Use Only

From: Pablo Camari= llo (pcamaril) <pcamaril@cisco.com= >
Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2019 6:47 AM
To: Ron Bonica <rbonica@ju= niper.net>; spring@ietf.org
Subject: Re: SRv6 Network Programming - ICMP Source Address Selectio= n

 

Ron,=

&nbs= p;

This= is exactly the same as in the SRH.

Ther= e is no text in draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming that changes thi= s.

&nbs= p;

Chee= rs,

Pabl= o.

&nbs= p;

From: Ron Bonica <rbonica@juniper.net>
Date: Monday, 9 December 2019 at 23:48
To: "Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)" <pcamaril@cisco.com>, SPRING WG <spring@ietf.org>, 6man <6man@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: SRv6 Network Programming - ICMP Source Address Selectio= n

 

Pablo,

 

Section 2.2 of RFC 4443 = offers two options. If you think that a SID is a unicast address, the first= option is applicable. If you think that a SID is not a unicast address, th= e second option is applicable.

 

Which did you choose?

 

    =             &nb= sp;            =             &nb= sp;            =             &nb= sp;      Ron

 

 

Juniper Business Use Only

From: Pablo Camar= illo (pcamaril) <pcamaril@cisco.com>
Sent: Monday, December 9, 2019 10:18 AM
To: Ron Bonica <rbonica@juniper.net>; SPR= ING WG <spring@ietf.org>; 6man <6man@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: SRv6 Network Programming - ICMP Source Address Selectio= n

 

Ron= ,

&nb= sp;

As = you pointed out in your email, RFC4443 Section 2.2 is very clear about how = to select the source address.

dra= ft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming does not change this.

&nb= sp;

Tha= nks,

Pab= lo.

&nb= sp;

From: ipv6 <ipv6-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Ron Bonica <= rbonica=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>
Date: Friday, 6 December 2019 at 17:40
To: SPRING WG <spring@ietf.org>, 6man <= ;6man@ietf.org>
Subject: SRv6 Network Programming - ICMP Source Address Selection

 

Authors,

 

When an SRv6 node sends = an ICMP message, how does it select the ICMP message’s source address= ?

 

Section 2.2 of RFC 4443 = offers two options. If you think that a SID is a unicast address, the first= option is applicable. If you think that a SID is not a unicast address, th= e second option is applicable.

 

    =             &nb= sp;            =             &nb= sp;            =             &nb= sp;  Ron

 =

Juniper Business Us= e Only

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From: Ron Bonica To: "bruno.decraene@orange.com" , 'SPRING WG List' Thread-Topic: WG status - pending calls Thread-Index: AdW3VRibbwDDUKaATWa2S/ScjKOqUgA6SLpQ Content-Class: Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2019 20:37:02 +0000 Message-ID: References: <19505_1576861077_5DFCFD95_19505_187_12_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D3BD97@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: <19505_1576861077_5DFCFD95_19505_187_12_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D3BD97@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: msip_labels: MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_Enabled=True; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_SiteId=bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_Owner=rbonica@juniper.net; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_SetDate=2019-12-21T20:36:56.8694553Z; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_Name=Juniper Business Use Only; 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bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: Tc4wgMkJKNaI07XSbCx21o8xmaiOwEIildPQ3TZOjpTp3NAEMFVnnsHVSWiAMNTZhgBoUCklNU/Zds+Jm/5m9w== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN7PR05MB5826 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.95,18.0.572 definitions=2019-12-21_06:2019-12-17,2019-12-21 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_spam_notspam policy=outbound_spam score=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 adultscore=0 suspectscore=0 clxscore=1015 malwarescore=0 impostorscore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 priorityscore=1501 mlxlogscore=999 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-1910280000 definitions=main-1912210181 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] WG status - pending calls X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2019 20:37:08 -0000 --_000_BN7PR05MB56990C1BE8C03FB70CF4CA2CAE2C0BN7PR05MB5699namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Shuping, Please add draft-bonica-spring-sr-mapped-six as a candidate for adoption. Ron Juniper Business Use Only From: spring On Behalf Of bruno.decraene@orange.c= om Sent: Friday, December 20, 2019 11:58 AM To: 'SPRING WG List' Subject: [spring] WG status - pending calls Hi SPRING, A number of authors have asked for their document to be adopted or last cal= led. Chairs have some backlog on this. The WG has also been pretty busy over the= last 6 months with a set of subjects triggering many emails and this is no= t always the best time to ask for review of additional documents (versus sh= ort '+1'). Chairs/WG will work on this calls in 2020. In the meantime, for a better tr= ansparency, Shuping has been kind enough to track this on the wiki https://= trac.ietf.org/trac/spring Thank you Shuping. If your document is missing from the list of pending calls for adoption/las= t call, please send an email to the chairs or to the list, as you wish. Otherwise, your request is been tracked. Content of this page is subject to change. In particular, the goal is not t= o duplicate the information already tracked in the ietf datatracker. E.g. h= ttps://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/search?name=3D&sort=3D&activedrafts=3Don&by= =3Dgroup&group=3Dspring I take this opportunity to wish everyone Merry Christmas, an Happy New Year= and possibly Happy Holidays. --Bruno ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el= ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci. 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Shuping,

 

Please add draft-bonica-spring-sr-mapped-six as a ca= ndidate for adoption.

 

        &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            Ron

 

 

 

Juniper Business Use Only

From: spring <spring-bounces@ietf.org> = On Behalf Of bruno.decraene@orange.com
Sent: Friday, December 20, 2019 11:58 AM
To: 'SPRING WG List' <spring@ietf.org>
Subject: [spring] WG status - pending calls

 

Hi SPRING,

 

A number of authors have asked for their document to= be adopted or last called.

Chairs have some backlog on this. The WG has also be= en pretty busy over the last 6 months with a set of subjects triggering man= y emails and this is not always the best time to ask for review of addition= al documents (versus short ‘+1’).

Chairs/WG will work on this calls in 2020. In the me= antime, for a better transparency, Shuping has been kind enough to track th= is on the wiki https://trac.ietf.org/trac/spring Thank you Shuping.

If your document is missing from the list of pending= calls for adoption/last call, please send an email to the chairs or to the= list, as you wish.

Otherwise, your request is been tracked.<= /p>

 

Content of this page is subject to change. In partic= ular, the goal is not to duplicate the information already tracked in the i= etf datatracker. E.g. https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/search?name=3D&sort=3D&activedraft= s=3Don&by=3Dgroup&group=3Dspring

 

I take this opportunity to wish everyone Merry Chris= tmas, an Happy New Year and possibly Happy Holidays.

--Bruno

 

 

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([2607:fb90:84e8:10bc:1cd3:9112:ba62:6f2f]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id e6sm18230373pfh.32.2019.12.21.14.26.44 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 21 Dec 2019 14:26:44 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-D3156A25-04E8-464C-A10E-2636B6F615F8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Jeff Tantsura Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2019 14:26:43 -0800 Message-Id: References: In-Reply-To: To: SPRING WG List X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (17C54) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] WG status - pending calls X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2019 22:26:48 -0000 --Apple-Mail-D3156A25-04E8-464C-A10E-2636B6F615F8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Shuping, Please also add draft-anand-spring-poi-sr-08. Thanks and happy holidays! Regards, Jeff > On Dec 21, 2019, at 12:37, Ron Bonica wrote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BF > Shuping, > =20 > Please add draft-bonica-spring-sr-mapped-six as a candidate for adoption. > =20 > Ron= > =20 > =20 > =20 > Juniper Business Use Only > From: spring On Behalf Of bruno.decraene@orange.= com > Sent: Friday, December 20, 2019 11:58 AM > To: 'SPRING WG List' > Subject: [spring] WG status - pending calls > =20 > Hi SPRING, > =20 > A number of authors have asked for their document to be adopted or last ca= lled. > Chairs have some backlog on this. The WG has also been pretty busy over th= e last 6 months with a set of subjects triggering many emails and this is no= t always the best time to ask for review of additional documents (versus sho= rt =E2=80=98+1=E2=80=99). > Chairs/WG will work on this calls in 2020. In the meantime, for a better t= ransparency, Shuping has been kind enough to track this on the wiki https://= trac.ietf.org/trac/spring Thank you Shuping. > If your document is missing from the list of pending calls for adoption/la= st call, please send an email to the chairs or to the list, as you wish. > Otherwise, your request is been tracked. > =20 > Content of this page is subject to change. In particular, the goal is not t= o duplicate the information already tracked in the ietf datatracker. E.g. ht= tps://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/search?name=3D&sort=3D&activedrafts=3Don&by=3D= group&group=3Dspring > =20 > I take this opportunity to wish everyone Merry Christmas, an Happy New Yea= r and possibly Happy Holidays. > --Bruno > =20 > =20 > __________________________________________________________________________= _______________________________________________ > =20 > Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confide= ntielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc > pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez rec= u ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler > a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages e= lectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, > Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou= falsifie. Merci. > =20 > This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged in= formation that may be protected by law; > they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. > If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and del= ete this message and its attachments. > As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been= modified, changed or falsified. > Thank you. > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring --Apple-Mail-D3156A25-04E8-464C-A10E-2636B6F615F8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Shuping,

Please also add=  draft-anand-spring-poi-sr-08.

Thanks and hap= py holidays!

Regards,
Jeff

On Dec 21, 2019, at 12:37= , Ron Bonica <rbonica=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:

=EF=BB=BF =

Shuping,

 

Please add draft-bonica-spring-sr-mapped-six as a can= didate for adoption.

 

         = ;            &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;            = ;            &nb= sp;           Ron

 

 

 

Juniper Business Use Only=

From: spring <spring-bounces@ietf.org> <= b>On Behalf Of bruno.decraene@orange.com
Sent: Friday, December 20, 2019 11:58 AM
To: 'SPRING WG List' <spring@ietf.org>
Subject: [spring] WG status - pending calls

 

Hi SPRING,

 

A number of authors have asked for their document to b= e adopted or last called.

Chairs have some backlog on this. The WG has also bee= n pretty busy over the last 6 months with a set of subjects triggering many e= mails and this is not always the best time to ask for review of additional d= ocuments (versus short =E2=80=98+1=E2=80=99).

Chairs/WG will work on this calls in 2020. In the mea= ntime, for a better transparency, Shuping has been kind enough to track this= on the wiki https://trac.ietf.org/trac/spring Thank you Shuping.

If your document is missing from the list of pending c= alls for adoption/last call, please send an email to the chairs or to the li= st, as you wish.

Otherwise, your request is been tracked.

 

Content of this page is subject to change. In particu= lar, the goal is not to duplicate the information already tracked in the iet= f datatracker. E.g. https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/search?name=3D&sort=3D&activedrafts= =3Don&by=3Dgroup&group=3Dspring

 

I take this opportunity to wish everyone Merry Christ= mas, an Happy New Year and possibly Happy Holidays.

--Bruno

 

 

_____________________________________________________=
____________________________________________________________________
 
Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des=
 informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc<=
/span>
pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisat=
ion. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jo=
intes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a e=
te altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci.
 
This message and its attachments may contain confiden=
tial or privileged information that may be protected by law;
they should not be distributed, used or copied withou=
t authorisation.
If you have received this email in error, please noti=
fy the sender and delete this message and its attachments.=

As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for me=
ssages that have been modified, changed or falsified.

Thank you.
_______________________________________________
spring= mailing list
spring@ietf.org
https://www.ie= tf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
= --Apple-Mail-D3156A25-04E8-464C-A10E-2636B6F615F8-- From nobody Sat Dec 21 15:38:12 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14FB812008B for ; Sat, 21 Dec 2019 15:38:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=raszuk.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IoFm_Wax_ql4 for ; Sat, 21 Dec 2019 15:38:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qk1-x729.google.com (mail-qk1-x729.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::729]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0714F12007C for ; Sat, 21 Dec 2019 15:38:07 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qk1-x729.google.com with SMTP id c16so10757248qko.6 for ; Sat, 21 Dec 2019 15:38:07 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=raszuk.net; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=UXVApJMRkOrIVxySPfMe/Dedgy/xXUOdnB/XfpJJamU=; b=XnxzQzSlBKePzQytR/intf7v5mz23OLJ7jy4FwMTk1xQbljgEe84HG/De5FVoNLNV0 6JBfsFpJ43Cq1AnwdnTZIkUhfqrY/DiIWysIeRpx6HZqoVjAO1rjUeHSxkGsQRo9fdmc r0eiC8jCGJJiD6WMC+zINdjtBPKnLRekvzFFs6F8bWYsVaDA94XbDCGTUQ7ziBWgsALR +wuzRVusg9E9XFLSA7AiKgRINT2o8DrQS+ym+yc7//N0wKkyUX9E1YWOrhBl2qJyOM2B v7y2RkmZLDxssOdA8kNUiOIN7f3n2kurGhrBJ2++NKdG9PKPKG3j2t3CDBECWhNJfuhv CjYQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=UXVApJMRkOrIVxySPfMe/Dedgy/xXUOdnB/XfpJJamU=; b=I8qHbFprktePApytKJ4/JBIwIsxqxmwLI8E/uWJwj+XfZv+XiLIMDSu998aHg3tJHY 6ih90v4xv7Y9567Wlgh6m0J+BRws+6y2X+diNu9RptMqBKU5Utbng/CbQQyWkgKCil9s /mLYhGdthor32OZdqgElqsVtHQbL6sx6iBWakKfKK3R9J/6aVgKi788MPw1Kau4lO2Hd hRvkXl9hwRa+q8aiBE8mBmisL+JpgBMKn+w6tBsOHRxA/ZCyc9bi7m4cRTVEnRDENZHD JRKmt1OCXbVgJq0e04auUB5ENt3lpb9W+maG/01fjYeDqbLY7+NrIg8Ex4PSRHbPGM+6 k/Qg== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAV1eJibdBEH5iDswgYGXcA0Jy4mgVdSoskgj7Zq++5sKrMD4fT/ 3zq1bwhEMlERvOSKPEIRkOchO1HL/bRfjX+tGV70jQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyopb8jePCA5W9H1PJIRI2SNKfmkHrJwgIyOFSS8YIPQi0aK4PdGvwCZbswVcEdKpb+36oY4PsnXTn6ST/MPc8= X-Received: by 2002:ae9:ed53:: with SMTP id c80mr19156641qkg.445.1576971486870; Sat, 21 Dec 2019 15:38:06 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <157609408568.11496.11799785813274132900@ietfa.amsl.com> <4c762fc5-8a61-e182-a9cc-d45b0f586ccc@gmail.com> <3A12D735-7899-4679-8FC8-DF8875D40A62@cisco.com> <628e5dfb-7ba4-d841-ebeb-cfc52d7294f1@gmail.com> <49b7e45f-a26f-cf4a-f8be-9aa917c34203@gmail.com> <0f492db1-d168-473c-8447-9e08d51c2039@gmail.com> <42cac054-ac09-fff3-4ed1-1890c7803ec9@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <42cac054-ac09-fff3-4ed1-1890c7803ec9@gmail.com> From: Robert Raszuk Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2019 00:38:00 +0100 Message-ID: To: Brian E Carpenter Cc: "Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)" , "spring@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000004bd404059a3f49e8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] I-D Action: draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-06.txt X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2019 23:38:10 -0000 --0000000000004bd404059a3f49e8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > No, we're not talking about "conceptual" decapsulation. Well if you want to take what has been said here to 6man after holidays no one will stop you there. But let's keep in mind that a lot of forwarding engines takes input from various sources and generate a complete outbound rewrite of the packet header from given offset. No one I know at data plane is playing with atomic bits or octets overrides in the packets. Leave alone that data plane does not even do full processing on entire packets normally. All it does is to copy packet header leaving the payload in fast local DRAM and just saving pointer to it. So literally if we agree that IPv6 packet can be encapsulated before it reaches final destination - what really happens at each segment endpoint if you zoom in is a decapsulation and encapsulation operation. Hence full compliance with all IPv6 specs. IETF drafts usually never go to that level of detail as they do not have to. Besides even what I just described above significantly differes in pipeline processing vs run-to-completion NPUs. So sure after Santa arrives we can argue about all of that for a long time. But IMHO it would be best if first we really all well understand what are we really after ... Cheers, Robert On Sat, Dec 21, 2019 at 8:22 PM Brian E Carpenter < brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> wrote: > On 20-Dec-19 22:18, Robert Raszuk wrote: > > Hi Brian, > > > > Right, but the language in the PSP sub-section does not talk about > decapsulation. > > > > > > Sure as in a way there is no decapsulation there. This is Segment N-1 > node not Final Segment End node. > > If there is no decapsulation and the words mean what they say, then there > is certainly a violation of RFC 8200. That needs to be said *explicitly* in > the text so that the community can decide what to do about it. > > > > > Of course the other way to look at this would be to conceptually > describe this as decapsulation at *each* segment end point and on most just > copy the SRH to a new IPv6 header and on PSP happening on Segment N-1 to > not copy it. > > No, we're not talking about "conceptual" decapsulation. If a packet > addressed to address A contains a packet addressed to address B, it isn't > going to get to B unless A physically decapsulates it. (Since we're in a > state where Segments Left == 0, we're already at the end > of the segment list in the RH, so I don't see where Segment N-1 comes in.) > > Where are the diagrams showing example packets to illustrate exactly what > happens during PSP? > > > > > I think the root problem may be using the word "pop", which is > relevant in the MPLS label stack context but not here, without additional > definition. > > > > > > Well I agree. "POP" does not sound like the best terminology choice here > for SRH removal or deletion :). Now all what is needed for WG to convince > Pablo for massive editing .... > > Yes, but that is precisely because MPLS is designed to support a label > stack with pushing and popping, and IPv6 is not designed that way. So "pop" > really is completely false terminology when referring to an IPv6 header. > > If the explanation was that the original packet is fully decapsulated at > the PSP node, so that the SRH disappears along with the rest of the > encapsulating header, we wouldn't be having this conversation. > > > Happy Holidays, > > Indeed! > Brian > > --0000000000004bd404059a3f49e8 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> No, we're not talking about "conceptual"= ; decapsulation.=C2=A0=C2=A0

Well if you want to tak= e what has been said here to 6man after holidays no one will stop you there= .=C2=A0

But let's keep in mind that a lot of f= orwarding engines takes input from various sources and generate a complete = outbound rewrite of the packet header from given offset.=C2=A0
No one I know at data plane is playing with atomic bits or oct= ets overrides in the packets. Leave alone that data plane does not even do = full processing on entire packets normally. All it does is to copy packet h= eader leaving the payload in fast local DRAM and=C2=A0just saving pointer t= o it.=C2=A0

So literally if we agree that IPv6 pac= ket can be encapsulated before it reaches final destination - what really h= appens at each segment endpoint if you zoom in is a decapsulation and encap= sulation operation. Hence full compliance with all IPv6 specs.=C2=A0
<= div>
IETF drafts usually never go to that level of detail as = they do not have to. Besides even=C2=A0what I just described above signific= antly differes=C2=A0in pipeline processing vs run-to-completion NPUs.=C2=A0=

So sure after Santa arrives we can argue about al= l of that for a long time. But IMHO it would be best if first we=C2=A0reall= y all well understand what are we really after ...=C2=A0

Cheers,
Robert

<= div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sat, Dec 21, 2019 at 8:22 PM Brian = E Carpenter <brian.e.carp= enter@gmail.com> wrote:
On 20-Dec-19 22:18, Robert Raszuk wrote:
> Hi Brian,
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Right, but the language in the PSP sub-section does= not talk about decapsulation.
>
>
> Sure as in a way there is no decapsulation there. This is Segment N-1 = node not Final Segment End node.

If there is no decapsulation and the words mean what they say, then there i= s certainly a violation of RFC 8200. That needs to be said *explicitly* in = the text so that the community can decide what to do about it.

>
> Of course the other way to look at this would be to conceptually descr= ibe this as decapsulation at *each* segment end point and on most just copy= the SRH to a new IPv6 header and on PSP happening on Segment N-1 to not co= py it.

No, we're not talking about "conceptual" decapsulation. If a = packet addressed to address A contains a packet addressed to address B, it = isn't going to get to B unless A physically decapsulates it. (Since we&= #39;re in a state where Segments Left =3D=3D 0, we're already at the en= d
of the segment list in the RH, so I don't see where Segment N-1 comes i= n.)

Where are the diagrams showing example packets to illustrate exactly what h= appens during PSP?

>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0I think the root problem may be using the word &quo= t;pop", which is relevant in the MPLS label stack context but not here= , without additional definition.
>
>
> Well I agree. "POP" does not sound like the best terminology= choice here for SRH removal or deletion :). Now all what is needed for WG = to convince Pablo for massive editing ....

Yes, but that is precisely because MPLS is designed to support a label stac= k with pushing and popping, and IPv6 is not designed that way. So "pop= " really is completely false terminology when referring to an IPv6 hea= der.

If the explanation was that the original packet is fully decapsulated at th= e PSP node, so that the SRH disappears along with the rest of the encapsula= ting header, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

> Happy Holidays,

Indeed!
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Brian

--0000000000004bd404059a3f49e8-- From nobody Sat Dec 21 15:42:43 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72A2912008A for ; Sat, 21 Dec 2019 15:42:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTTPS_HTTP_MISMATCH=0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=raszuk.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vB4vj6GMN5jJ for ; Sat, 21 Dec 2019 15:42:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qt1-x830.google.com (mail-qt1-x830.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::830]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BD99012007C for ; Sat, 21 Dec 2019 15:42:37 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qt1-x830.google.com with SMTP id j5so11937501qtq.9 for ; Sat, 21 Dec 2019 15:42:37 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=raszuk.net; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=EvdeBwBUt0AXQk8hI+PwDhDY4ptw0LANKSAHG1ve6Ik=; b=ZzADKL/qwm67BDojAIVmYinl7eqP+sjAwJCTSoBeEZ8yhhWzz6PXGWCad7C1WDBKUs rwt/B4xku820G7n1M9JPQ56yHfijgROG4va0GuuLA7JDFncMi/U7nPac3KTkT7nJT5/8 /mfzSzE7q2IqZ/8xzuta5GrVGXv8T68V4CKoYaIQa4NsZCR4GuuCP619wOYxs2pRqat6 B6RcUz3FV8/uNwDz4ob68wVblY/iT+t58DkQcgyLFYyByJBFrvyUC/olHZaTs1FH5vaV vb+ZV1odSQrg1vdmxplixNwDZGl46ebfDUAeJgDAwml8IHhveHjqPV3j9UCZPDuCWUkM EnYA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=EvdeBwBUt0AXQk8hI+PwDhDY4ptw0LANKSAHG1ve6Ik=; b=qnbhxmqIj1Y76ilmVaowtkHFV34sYcHgdK7LbccVlR1sErQ9iuyyusxZc2Ki4kl+fn iTmDAPkzYDWrMOd4Vv6e40RFJpZIV6H0f+S1Fx3fKd1XKppoAHxXoFnfSiNM1RK+x/1K qL0MR7nbEHO3DmvwG7okV3yNpEnirRZuDmt1wseexBq1SMhcZG07NaDSH9bCvL/EGim9 yF3edE8ZWzzXKpMJUqyCzKrrhoES147n09HqZAXGqTdf5k7BjkP5VPO6XKB2vUtTr+Kt JwPP7IvXbjTPRUJzve+gToazOzCyKRmMtJHTwvOTWrMN/q5ZIfL6fZSH2p5j7cWA/NkB 8XVQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXATAWqpJ5acjqAS75xG4i+H1gya5Uxi8gMgEd9b5cji+K4fwb/ 5Sd1T5eRDM/+nIbVo14fMmRnIfm4tE663EFfXSoN8A== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyaahEMb7vwodA735TEJXQ202PmvBefUr1KIFkmC//icza0A42rwSqFaFn7Lb839N5uNxJFhwltJwq/dhKN6Ho= X-Received: by 2002:ac8:3703:: with SMTP id o3mr17436905qtb.208.1576971756774; Sat, 21 Dec 2019 15:42:36 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <8f5607c9-645a-ea88-e2a7-a4bed8206fc8@gmail.com> <63F5AA66-AEF8-4278-B98C-D3C53AC5A60A@cisco.com> <069e6021-537c-422a-37da-f090a6ac334b@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: From: Robert Raszuk Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2019 00:42:30 +0100 Message-ID: To: Ron Bonica Cc: Andrew Alston , Alexandre Petrescu , SPRING WG , Gyan Mishra , "Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)" , Mark Smith Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000623cf5059a3f5986" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] 64-bit locators X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2019 23:42:42 -0000 --000000000000623cf5059a3f5986 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hey Ron, > Leaving both chickens and eggs in the hen house=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6.. Indeed ... after all it is not Easter Time ! > Only one answer can be correct =F0=9F=98=89 To me this is very obvious ... SID is NOT an IPv6 address. Part of the SID is a locator which is used for vanilla IPv6 forwarding (based on IPv6 routing prefixes), but that is all this 128 bit string has in common with IPv6. Merry SID-less Christmas, R. On Sat, Dec 21, 2019 at 9:32 PM Ron Bonica wrote: > Robert, > > > > Leaving both chickens and eggs in the hen house=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6.. > > > > We have never explicitly stated whether a SID **is** and IPv6 address or = **merely > resembles** an IPv6 address. Which is it? > > > > Hint: This is a multiple choice question. Only one answer can be correct > =F0=9F=98=89 > > > > Happy Holidays, > > Ron > > > > > > *From:* spring *On Behalf Of *Robert Raszuk > *Sent:* Friday, December 20, 2019 10:45 AM > *To:* Andrew Alston > *Cc:* Alexandre Petrescu ; SPRING WG < > spring@ietf.org>; Gyan Mishra ; Pablo Camarillo > (pcamaril) ; Mark Smith > *Subject:* Re: [spring] 64-bit locators > > > > > So we are left with a chicken and egg situation =E2=80=93 is the SID a= n address > or isn=E2=80=99t it. > > > > I do not see here neither chicken nor an egg here. SID definition for SRv= 6 > is very clear. It is . > > > > Done. > > > > Obviously LOCator part is routable. > > > > Thx, > R. > > > > On Fri, Dec 20, 2019 at 4:33 PM Andrew Alston < > Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com> wrote: > > +1 > > > > I have long argued that SRv6 essentially redefines and overloads the ipv6 > address as defined =E2=80=93 the argument that I have been given is that = the SID is > in fact not an address =E2=80=93 however =E2=80=93 by virtue of the fact = that the SID in > SRv6 is copied into the address field during traffic steering =E2=80=93 a= nd routing > occurs based on that DA =E2=80=93 it most certainly is an address. > > > > So we are left with a chicken and egg situation =E2=80=93 is the SID an = address > or isn=E2=80=99t it. If it isn=E2=80=99t =E2=80=93 I 100% agree with you= that something else > should be used =E2=80=93 in which case how do you address the steering is= sue. If > it is an address =E2=80=93 then this draft fundamentally redefines the IP= v6 address > semantics =E2=80=93 and I would argue that should only be done by an upda= te of > RFC4291, and potentially a number of other documents which rely on the > current semantic. > > > > But =E2=80=93 either way =E2=80=93 I do not think we can argue that the S= ID and a v6 > address are currently different things in the drafts =E2=80=93 since a SI= D is > copied into the DA field =E2=80=93 and used to route on =E2=80=93 and whi= le that remains =E2=80=93 > I have stated before, and will state again, I have deep concerns as to th= e > unknown consequences of fundamentally changing the semantics of an addres= s > as it was defined in other RFC=E2=80=99s and as have wide deployment. > > > > Thanks > > > > Andrew > > > > > > > > Juniper Business Use Only > > *From:* spring *On Behalf Of *Alexandre Petresc= u > *Sent:* Friday, 20 December 2019 18:19 > *To:* Robert Raszuk ; Gyan Mishra < > hayabusagsm@gmail.com> > *Cc:* SPRING WG ; Mark Smith ; > Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril) > *Subject:* Re: [spring] 64-bit locators > > > > > > Le 20/12/2019 =C3=A0 00:07, Robert Raszuk a =C3=A9crit : > > > > Fixed length of any field LOC:FUNC:ARGs makes no sense to me. What is > > optimal for Ron or Mark may not be optimal for me. > > I think I can legitimately wonder whether the 'SID' Segment Identfier > should not be something else than an IP address. > > Making a SID an IP address might lead to other well-known confusions > like in OSPF: there is a Router ID which is an IP address in some > manufacturer's speak, it works fine, but it does not reply to ping under > any configuration whatsoever. > > That is not a good thing. The router id looks like an IP address but it > is not one. When migrating OSPF to IPv6 all was changed but the Router > ID stayed like an IPv4 address. So it is an IPv6 OSPF but has some IPv4 > in it. > > The column-hextet notation, or more precisely something like > "2001:db8::", denotes an IP address. Not only is it a Documentaiton > Prefix, but it is an IP address. There is an RFC for it. It is somehow > reserved and it shouldnt be used for something else, otherwise it > creates confusion. > > It could be easy to create a new space for SID, with its distinct > notation, like 64bit identifiers "ab_cd_ef_gh_01_02__". Nobody would > try to ping these because they dont look like IP addresses. > > Then, we might wonder whether these SIDs should be fixed or variable > length.. > > Alex > > > > > While we are at that fixed size of 128 bits of IPv6 also makes no sense > > - but that vessel left the harbour a while ago. > > > > Cheers, > > R. > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 10:57 PM Gyan Mishra > >> wrote: > > > > > > > > On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 4:17 PM Mark Smith > >> wrote: > > > > > > > > On Thu, 19 Dec 2019, 22:48 Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril), > > > wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > As mentioned in the draft, the choice of the locator length > > is deployment specific. > > LINE has deployed SRv6 using a locator different than a /64. > > > > > > This is effectively an appeal to authority. > > > > What makes what LINE has done the best and right thing to do? > > > > I can already see they're using the IPv4 link-local 169.254/16 > > prefix in a manner that wildly violates how it is specified to > > be used in RFC3927. See Slides 9, 12, 24. > > > > Tying your IPv6 addressing plan to IPv4 addressing could end up > > imposing IPv4's addressing limitations on IPv6 - defeating the > > primary purpose of IPv6 - providing many more addresses than IPv4. > > > > Slide 32 shows they're violating RFC 4193 (IPv6 ULAs), because > > they're using ULA-Cs ('fc') rather than ULA-Ls ('fd'), despite > > there being no central registry. Their 40 bit Global ID of "17" > > could be random, although I'm guessing not, as random numbers > > would usually have far less zeros in them. These sorts of ULA > > errors are why I presented "Getting IPv6 Addressing Right" at > > AusNOG this year - > > > https://www.slideshare.net/markzzzsmith/ausnog-2019-getting-ipv6-private-= addressing-right > > . > > > > > > This is an Internet Draft, so this is the best time to make > > these sorts of changes, as it is much easier now. When things > > become RFCs it becomes much harder (and much, much harder when > > they become Internet Standards). > > > > If somebody has deployed Internet Draft level technology, they > > have to accept the risk that what they've deployed might not > > comply with the eventual RFC. > > > > Regards, > > Mark. > > > > [Gyan] For IPv6 addressing you can have any length prefix up to > > /128. i am all for flexibility with vlsm even though may not be > > widely used. > > > > SRv6 SID encoding differs in that we had 3 fields > > {locator;function;arguments} that I think it makes sense to be fixed > > in the specification as Ron has brought up. > > > > From an operator perspective for programmability as SRv6 > > deployments with or without centralized controller, fixed length of > > the 3 fields makes sense so operators can easily craft ACLs for > > deployments. > > > > I think we could go crazy with the sizing but I think since 64 bit > > boundary exists today for slaac we could make the locator /64 as > > well is fine. We could split the other 2 fields evenly 32 bits each > > or make the function longer. I think we=E2=80=99ll defined sizing is > > important so SID addressing plan is not chaotic. > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > Pablo. > > > > [1] > > > https://speakerdeck.com/line_developers/line-data-center-networking-with-= srv6 > > > > > =EF=BB=BF-----Original Message----- > > From: spring > >> on behalf of Alexandre > > Petrescu > >> > > Date: Thursday, 19 December 2019 at 09:44 > > To: "spring@ietf.org " > > > > > Subject: Re: [spring] 64-bit locators > > > > > > > > Le 19/12/2019 =C3=A0 00:13, Mark Smith a =C3=A9crit : > > [...] > > > > > VLSM [variable length subnet mask] is fundamentally hard, > > > > We need VLSM in other places too, such as in ULA > > prefixes fd and fc. > > > > I think it is indeed a difficult to grasp concept, but > > it is there for > > growth. > > > > Alex > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > Mark. > > > > > > __ > > > > > > In this case, we should probably change the > > document to reflect > > > implemented behavior.____ > > > > > > __ __ > > > > > > > > > > > Ron____ > > > > > > __ __ > > > > > > > > > Juniper Business Use Only > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > spring mailing list > > > spring@ietf.org > > > >> > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > spring mailing list > > > spring@ietf.org > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > spring mailing list > > spring@ietf.org > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > spring mailing list > > spring@ietf.org > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > spring mailing list > > spring@ietf.org > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > > > > > -- > > > > Gyan S. Mishra > > > > IT Network Engineering & Technology > > > > Verizon Communications Inc. (VZ) > > > > 13101 Columbia Pike FDC1 3rd Floor > > > > Silver Spring, MD 20904 > > > > United States > > > > Phone: 301 502-1347 > > > > Email: gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com > > > > > www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies-consultant > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > spring mailing list > > spring@ietf.org > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > > > > > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > > > --000000000000623cf5059a3f5986 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hey Ron,

> Leaving both chickens and= eggs in the hen house=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6..=C2=A0=C2=A0

Indeed ... after all it is not Easter Time !=C2=A0

<= /div>
> Only one answer can be correct=C2=A0=F0=9F=98=89=C2=A0=C2=A0

To me this is very obvious ...=C2=A0
=
SID is NOT an IPv6 address. Part of the SID is a locator whi= ch is used for vanilla IPv6 forwarding (based on IPv6 routing prefixes), bu= t that is all this 128 bit string has in common with IPv6.=C2=A0
=
Merry SID-less Christmas,
R.

On Sat, = Dec 21, 2019 at 9:32 PM Ron Bonica <rbonica@juniper.net> wrote:

Robert,

=C2=A0

Leaving both chickens and eggs in the hen house=E2= =80=A6=E2=80=A6..

=C2=A0

We have never explicitly stated whether a SID *is= * and IPv6 address or *merely resembles* an IPv6 address. Which = is it?

=C2=A0

Hint: This is a multiple choice question. Only one a= nswer can be correct =F0=9F=98= =89

=C2=A0

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Happy Holidays,

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Ro= n

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

From: spring <spring-bounces@ietf.org> On Beha= lf Of Robert Raszuk
Sent: Friday, December 20, 2019 10:45 AM
To: Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com>
Cc: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>; SPRING WG &l= t;spring@ietf.org&= gt;; Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>; Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril) <pcamaril@cisco.com>= ; Mark Smith <markzzzsmith@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [spring] 64-bit locators

=C2=A0

> So =C2=A0we are left with a chicken and egg sit= uation =E2=80=93 is the SID an address or isn=E2=80=99t it.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0

=C2=A0

I do not see here neither chicken nor an egg here. S= ID definition for SRv6 is very clear. It is <LOC:FUNC:ARG>.=C2=A0<= /u>

=C2=A0

Done.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Obviously LOCator part is routable.=C2=A0<= /u>

=C2=A0

Thx,
R.

=C2=A0

On Fri, Dec 20, 2019 at 4:33 PM Andrew Alston <Andrew.A= lston@liquidtelecom.com> wrote:

+1

=C2=A0

I have long argued that SRv6 essentially redefines a= nd overloads the ipv6 address as defined =E2=80=93 the argument that I have= been given is that the SID is in fact not an address =E2=80=93 however =E2=80=93 by virtue of the fact that the SID in SRv6 is copied into the ad= dress field during traffic steering =E2=80=93 and routing occurs based on t= hat DA =E2=80=93 it most certainly is an address.

=C2=A0

So =C2=A0we are left with a chicken and egg situatio= n =E2=80=93 is the SID an address or isn=E2=80=99t it.=C2=A0 If it isn=E2= =80=99t =E2=80=93 I 100% agree with you that something else should be used = =E2=80=93 in which case how do you address the steering issue.=C2=A0 If it is an address =E2=80=93 the= n this draft fundamentally redefines the IPv6 address semantics =E2=80=93 a= nd I would argue that should only be done by an update of RFC4291, and pote= ntially a number of other documents which rely on the current semantic.

=C2=A0

But =E2=80=93 either way =E2=80=93 I do not think we= can argue that the SID and a v6 address are currently different things in = the drafts =E2=80=93 since a SID is copied into the DA field =E2=80=93 and = used to route on =E2=80=93 and while that remains =E2=80=93 I have stated before, = and will state again, I have deep concerns as to the unknown consequences o= f fundamentally changing the semantics of an address as it was defined in o= ther RFC=E2=80=99s and as have wide deployment.

=C2=A0

Thanks

=C2=A0

Andrew

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Juniper Business Use Only<= u>

From: spring <spring-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Alexandre Petrescu
Sent: Friday, 20 December 2019 18:19
To: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>; Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
Cc: SPRING WG <spring@ietf.org>; Mark Smith <markzzzsmith@gmail.com>; Pablo Camarillo= (pcamaril) <pca= maril@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: [spring] 64-bit locators

=C2=A0



Le 20/12/2019 =C3=A0 00:07, Robert Raszuk a =C3=A9crit=C2=A0:
>
> Fixed length=C2=A0of any field LOC:FUNC:ARGs makes no sense to me. Wha= t is
> optimal for Ron or Mark may not be optimal for me.

I think I can legitimately wonder whether the 'SID' Segment Identfi= er
should not be something else than an IP address.

Making a SID an IP address might lead to other well-known confusions
like in OSPF: there is a Router ID which is an IP address in some
manufacturer's speak, it works fine, but it does not reply to ping unde= r
any configuration whatsoever.

That is not a good thing. The router id looks like an IP address but it is not one. When migrating OSPF to IPv6 all was changed but the Router
ID stayed like an IPv4 address. So it is an IPv6 OSPF but has some IPv4 in it.

The column-hextet notation, or more precisely something like
"2001:db8::", denotes an IP address. Not only is it a Documentait= on
Prefix, but it is an IP address. There is an RFC for it. It is somehow
reserved and it shouldnt be used for something else, otherwise it
creates confusion.

It could be easy to create a new space for SID, with its distinct
notation, like 64bit identifiers "ab_cd_ef_gh_01_02__". Nobody wo= uld
try to ping these because they dont look like IP addresses.

Then, we might wonder whether these SIDs should be fixed or variable length= ..

Alex

>
> While we are at that fixed size of 128 bits of IPv6 also makes no sens= e
> - but that vessel left the harbour a while ago.
>
> Cheers,
> R.
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 10:57 PM Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com
> <mai= lto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 4:17 PM Mark Smith <markzzzsmith@gmail.com
> <ma= ilto:markzzzsmith@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>
>
> On Thu, 19 Dec 2019, 22:48 Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril),
> <pcamaril@cisco.com <mailto:pcamaril@cisco.com&g= t;> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> As mentioned in the draft, the choice of the locator length
> is deployment specific.
> LINE has deployed SRv6 using a locator different than a /64.
>
>
> This is effectively an appeal to authority.
>
> What makes what LINE has done the best and right thing to do?
>
> I can already see they're using the IPv4 link-local 169.254/16
> prefix in a manner that wildly violates how it is specified to
> be used in RFC3927. See Slides 9, 12, 24.
>
> Tying your IPv6 addressing plan to IPv4 addressing could end up
> imposing IPv4's addressing limitations on IPv6 - defeating the
> primary purpose of IPv6 - providing many more addresses than IPv4.
>
> Slide 32 shows they're violating RFC 4193 (IPv6 ULAs), because
> they're using ULA-Cs ('fc') rather than ULA-Ls ('fd= 9;), despite
> there being no central registry.=C2=A0 Their 40 bit Global ID of "= ;17"
> could be random, although I'm guessing not, as random numbers
> would usually have far less zeros in them. These sorts of ULA
> errors are why I presented "Getting IPv6 Addressing Right" a= t
> AusNOG this year -
> https://www.slideshare.net/markzzzsmith/ausnog-2019-getting-ipv6-private-ad= dressing-right=C2=A0.
>
>
> This is an Internet Draft, so this is the best time to make
> these sorts of changes, as it is much easier now. When things
> become RFCs it becomes much harder (and much, much harder when
> they become Internet Standards).
>
> If somebody has deployed Internet Draft level technology, they
> have to accept the risk that what they've deployed might not
> comply with the eventual RFC.
>
> Regards,
> Mark.
>
> =C2=A0[Gyan] For IPv6 addressing you can have any length prefix up to<= br> > /128. =C2=A0i am all for flexibility with vlsm even though may not be<= br> > widely used.
>
> SRv6 SID encoding differs in that we had 3 fields
> {locator;function;arguments} that I think it makes sense to be fixed > in the specification as Ron has brought up.
>
> From an operator perspective for programmability as SRv6
> deployments with or without centralized controller, fixed length of > the 3 fields makes sense so operators can easily craft ACLs for
> deployments.
>
> I think we could go crazy with the sizing but I think since 64 bit
> boundary exists today for slaac we could make the locator /64 as
> well is fine.=C2=A0 We could split the other 2 fields evenly 32 bits e= ach
> or make the function longer.=C2=A0 I think we=E2=80=99ll defined sizin= g is
> important so SID addressing plan is not chaotic.
>
>
>
>
> Cheers,
> Pablo.
>
> [1]
> https://speakerdeck.com/line_developers/line-data-center-networking-with-sr= v6
>
> =EF=BB=BF-----Original Message-----
> From: spring <spring-bounces@ietf.org
> <m= ailto:spring-bounces@ietf.org>> on behalf of Alexandre
> Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com
> <mailto:alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>>
> Date: Thursday, 19 December 2019 at 09:44
> To: "spring@ietf.org <mailto:spring@ietf.org>&= quot;
> <spring@ietf.org <mailto:spring@ietf.org>>
> Subject: Re: [spring] 64-bit locators
>
>
>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Le 19/12/2019 =C3=A0 00:13, Mark Smith a =C3=A9crit : > =C2=A0 =C2=A0 [...]
>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > VLSM [variable length subnet mask] is fundamentally= hard,
>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 We need VLSM in other places too, such as in ULA
> prefixes fd and fc.
>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 I think it is indeed a difficult to grasp concept, but > it is there for
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 growth.
>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Alex
>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > Regards,
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > Mark.
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0__
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0In this case, we should probably= change the
> document to reflect
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0implemented behavior.____
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0__ __
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = Ron____
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0__ __
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Juniper Business Use Only
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0________________________________= _______________
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0spring mailing list
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > spring@ietf.org <mailto:spring@ietf.org>
> <mailto:spring@ietf.org <mailto:spring@ietf.org>>= ;
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > _______________________________________________
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > spring mailing list
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > spring@ietf.org <mailto:spring@ietf.org>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 _______________________________________________
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 spring mailing list
> spring@ietf.org <mailto:spring@i= etf.org>
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> spring mailing list
> spring@ietf.org <mailto:spring@i= etf.org>
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
>
> _______________________________________________
> spring mailing list
> spring@ietf.org <mailto:spring@i= etf.org>
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
>
> --
>
> Gyan S. Mishra
>
> IT Network Engineering & Technology
>
> Verizon Communications=C2=A0Inc. (VZ)
>
> 13101 Columbia Pike FDC1 3rd Floor
>
> Silver Spring, MD 20904
>
> United States
>
> Phone:=C2=A0301 502-1347
>
> Email: = gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com <mailto:gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com>
>
> www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies-consultant
> <http://www.link= edin.com/in/networking-technologies-consultant>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> spring mailing list
> spring@ietf.org <mailto:spring@i= etf.org>
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
>

_______________________________________________
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Mark Smith Thread-Topic: [spring] 64-bit locators Thread-Index: AdW1xQ51WdCKfYi8Srq12h55LZUKvwAM7yQAABPs9wAACIEPAAARyE4AAAFrlwAAAm2tAAAh79OAAAASruAAANoaAAA8Om3wAAa6YQAAEiDRAA== Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2019 00:21:35 +0000 Message-ID: References: <8f5607c9-645a-ea88-e2a7-a4bed8206fc8@gmail.com> <63F5AA66-AEF8-4278-B98C-D3C53AC5A60A@cisco.com> <069e6021-537c-422a-37da-f090a6ac334b@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-GB X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/10.1f.0.191110 x-originating-ip: [152.108.254.22] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-ht: Tenant x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: d4945689-26a6-4a18-4d8e-08d78674e7cc x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: DBBPR03MB5464: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:4502; x-forefront-prvs: 02596AB7DA x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; 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Ron Bonica To: "Zafar Ali (zali)" , Ole Troan , 6man WG , SPRING WG CC: 6man Chairs <6man-chairs@ietf.org> Thread-Topic: [spring] 6man w.g. last call for Thread-Index: AQHVt0vyoCx1YOJrTk65d/nHDJ2JGKfIEzwA Content-Class: Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2019 19:49:11 +0000 Message-ID: References: <404921DA-48AE-41A7-8313-4DBA792466C6@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <404921DA-48AE-41A7-8313-4DBA792466C6@cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: msip_labels: MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_Enabled=True; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_SiteId=bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_Owner=rbonica@juniper.net; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_SetDate=2019-12-23T19:49:04.8702335Z; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_Name=Juniper Business Use Only; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_Application=Microsoft Azure Information Protection; 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boundary="_000_BN7PR05MB56997DAF58F3B44CFEF41ABFAE2E0BN7PR05MB5699namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: d9d66614-1837-449c-87d1-08d787e12eb6 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 23 Dec 2019 19:49:11.6070 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: oIwsaLPeweqJRE+TA4x0ollwMS04ZgBOaUmmnRTH2iD+9BDdmioRMXlTBWx8Ra2wcMiQ+8EG18gKqYgs8QUwgg== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN7PR05MB5875 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.95,18.0.572 definitions=2019-12-23_07:2019-12-23,2019-12-23 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_spam_notspam policy=outbound_spam score=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 spamscore=0 bulkscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 mlxscore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 clxscore=1011 priorityscore=1501 impostorscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-1910280000 definitions=main-1912230170 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] 6man w.g. last call for X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2019 19:49:24 -0000 --_000_BN7PR05MB56997DAF58F3B44CFEF41ABFAE2E0BN7PR05MB5699namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Ali, I have review what I believe to be the latest version (in github) and have= the following comments: Major -------- * A close reading of Section 3.1.1 reveals that the O-flag is processed= even when Segments Left is equal to 0. This would make the SRH the only IP= v6 Routing Header that requires processing when Segments Left is equal to z= ero. Do you really want to go there? * In Section 4.1.1, Classic PING isn't used to "ping a remote IP Prefix= ". It is used to query the liveness of an interface. * In Section 4.1.1, N1 sends (A:1::, B:2:C31)(A:5::, B:4:C52, B:2:C31, = SL=3D2, NH =3D ICMPv6)(ICMPv6 Echo Request). The SRH contains an IPv6 addr= ess that is not a SID ( A:1:: ). Is this legal? * In Section 4.1.1.1, the PHP is not required. If N5 doesn't understand= SRH, it skips over it. * In Section 4.2.1, N1 sends a traceroute (A:1::, B:2:C31)(A:5::, B:4:C= 52, B:2:C31, SL=3D2,). The SRH contains an IPv6 address that is not a SID (= A:1:: ). Is this legal? * Minor --------- * In Section 3.1.1 you make it clear that you duplicate the packet, for= ward one copy and send the other copy for OAM processing. A strict reading = of Sections 3.3 and 3.4 suggest that you send the one and only copy of the = packet for OAM processing. You may forward the packet after OAM processing = is complete. I don't think that this is what you mean to say. Nits ----- * You might want to reference RFC 2151 for Classic PING and Traceroute * In Paragraph 2 of Section 4.1.2, you say that the PING failed because= the next header was ICMP and not SRH. That is true if B:4:C52 requires SL = to be greater than 0, but not true in the general case. In the general case= , the PING fails because the ENH is ICMP, and B:4:C52 requires something ot= her than ICMP as the ENH. Juniper Business Use Only From: Zafar Ali (zali) Sent: Friday, December 20, 2019 10:42 AM To: Ron Bonica ; Ole Troan ; 6ma= n WG ; SPRING WG Cc: 6man Chairs <6man-chairs@ietf.org>; Zafar Ali (zali) Subject: Re: [spring] 6man w.g. last call for Hi Ron, Thanks for your review. Unfortunately, you seem to have not get the latest version from the Github = (which was later posted as v03). Good news is that your comments were addressed in the latest version. Please see specifics in-line. Happy Holidays! Thanks Regards ... Zafar From: spring > on b= ehalf of Ron Bonica > Date: Wednesday, December 18, 2019 at 4:07 PM To: Ole Troan >, 6man WG = >, SPRING WG > Cc: 6man Chairs <6man-chairs@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [spring] 6man w.g. last call for Ole, I have reviewed version-02 of this document and believe that it still has t= he following major issues: - Section 3.1.1 assumes implementation details (e.g., that the implementati= on has an OAM process) but fails to describe any externally observable beha= vior. The externally observable behaviors are described, incompletely, in S= ections 4.1.2 and 4.2.2. [ZA] Like you mentioned, processing details were embedded in the Section 4.= We brought them up in the Section 3 and also added additional normative la= nguage in Section 4. Specifically, In the new revision: * We have added normative text at the beginning of 3.1.1 where O-bit is= defined. * Sections 3.3 and 3.4 adds normative texts for OAM SIDs. * 4.1.2 and 4.2.2 further adds additional normative text for Ping and t= raceroute use-cases, respectively. - Section 3.5 seems to be incomplete. What TLV are we talking about and wha= t role does it play? [ZA] This has been already addressed. Specifically, indeed, the draft does = not define any TLV for OAM purposes. However, section was added as future d= rafts may define OAM TLVs. However, the section has been removed in the new= revision. - Section 4 talks about future revisions of this document. Aren't we in WGL= C? [ZA] This has been already addressed in the latest version. - Section 4.1.2.1 - When the ping succeeds, what does the success message l= ook like? An ICMP Echo Response? What is the source address? A SID? [ZA] Yes, it is an ICMP Echo Response ICMP Echo Response. The v03 specifica= lly mentions the same. As mentioned in the draft, the upper layer header pr= ocessing follows RFC4443. - Section 4.1.2.2 - Does this work with PSP? [ZA] This does not apply. There is no PSP flavor defined for END.OP SID. - Section 4.2.2.1 - Do we need to examine flags even when SL =3D=3D 0? [ZA] The O-bit is for telemetry purpose and packets with SL=3D0 are also te= lemetered. = Ron Juniper Business Use Only -----Original Message----- From: ipv6 > On Behalf = Of Ole Troan Sent: Wednesday, December 4, 2019 3:53 PM To: 6man WG >; SPRING WG > Cc: 6man Chairs <6man-chairs@ietf.org> Subject: 6man w.g. last call for Hello, As agreed in the working group session in Singapore, this message starts = a new two week 6MAN Working Group Last Call on advancing: Title : Operations, Administration, and Maintenance (OAM) in Segment R= outing Networks with IPv6 Data plane (SRv6) Author : Z. Ali, C. Filsfils, S. Matsushima, D. Voyer, M. Chen Filename : draft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6-oam-02 Pages : 23 Date : 2019-11-20 https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf= -6man-spring-srv6-oam/__;!8WoA6RjC81c!XSqnzjZKANP41cvNa8ybSjYCuTDO6XCHjQyZ4= ARNtx4MhYWG7vdEvXi-22No-zDm$ as a Proposed Standard. Substantive comments and statements of support for publishing this document= should be directed to the mailing list. Editorial suggestions can be sent to the author. This last call will end on= the 18th of December 2019. To improve document quality and ensure that bugs are caught as early as pos= sible, we would require at least two reviewers to do a complete review of t= he document. Please let the chairs know if you are willing to be a reviewe= r. The last call will be forwarded to the spring working group, with discussio= n directed to the ipv6 list. Thanks, Bob & Ole, 6man co-chairs -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/m= ailman/listinfo/ipv6__;!8WoA6RjC81c!XSqnzjZKANP41cvNa8ybSjYCuTDO6XCHjQyZ4AR= Ntx4MhYWG7vdEvXi-2-1yR5ZL$ -------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ spring mailing list spring@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring --_000_BN7PR05MB56997DAF58F3B44CFEF41ABFAE2E0BN7PR05MB5699namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Ali,

 

I have review what I believe to be the latest  = version (in github) and have the following comments:

 

Major

-------- 

 

  • A close re= ading of Section 3.1.1 reveals that the O-flag is processed even when Segme= nts Left is equal to 0. This would make the SRH the only IPv6 Routing Heade= r that requires processing when Segments Left is equal to zero. Do you really want to go there?
  • In Section 4.1= .1, Classic PING isn’t used to “ping a remote IP Prefix”.= It is used to query the liveness of an interface.
  • In Section 4.1.1, N= 1 sends (A:1::, B:2:C31)(A:5::, B:4:C52, B:2:C31, SL=3D2, NH =3D  ICMP= v6)(ICMPv6 Echo Request). The SRH contains an IPv6 address that is not a SI= D ( A:1:: ). Is this legal?
  • In Section 4.1.1.1, the PHP is not require= d. If N5 doesn’t understand SRH, it skips over it.
    • In Section 4.= 2.1, N1 sends a traceroute (A:1::, B:2:C31)(A:5::, B:4:C52, B:2:C31, SL=3D2= ,). The SRH contains an IPv6 address that is not a SID ( A:1:: ). Is this l= egal?
  •  

Minor

---------

  • In Section= 3.1.1 you make it clear that you duplicate the packet, forward one copy an= d send the other copy for OAM processing. A strict reading of Sections 3.3 = and 3.4 suggest that you send the one and only copy of the packet for OAM processing. You may forward the packet= after OAM processing is complete. I don’t think that this is what yo= u mean to say.

Nits
-----

  • You might = want to reference RFC 2151 for Classic PING and Traceroute
    • <= li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"mso-list:l6 level1 lfo6">In Paragrap= h 2 of Section 4.1.2, you say that the PING failed because the next header = was ICMP and not SRH. That is true if B:4:C52 requires SL to be greater tha= n 0, but not true in the general case. In the general case, the PING fails because the ENH is ICMP, and B:4:C52 r= equires something other than ICMP as the ENH.

 

 

Juniper Business Use Only

From: Zafar Ali (zali) <zali@cisco.com>=
Sent: Friday, December 20, 2019 10:42 AM
To: Ron Bonica <rbonica@juniper.net>; Ole Troan <otroan@emp= loyees.org>; 6man WG <ipv6@ietf.org>; SPRING WG <spring@ietf.or= g>
Cc: 6man Chairs <6man-chairs@ietf.org>; Zafar Ali (zali) <z= ali@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: [spring] 6man w.g. last call for <draft-ietf-6man-sp= ring-srv6-oam>

 

Hi Ron,

 

Thanks for your review.

 

Unfortunately, you seem to have not get the latest v= ersion from the Github (which was later posted as v03).

Good news is that your comments were addressed in th= e latest version.

 

Please see specifics in-line.

 

Happy Holidays!

 

Thanks

 

Regards … Zafar

 

From= : spring <spring-bounces@ietf.org> on beh= alf of Ron Bonica <rbonica=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>
Date: Wednesday, December 18, 2019 at 4:07 PM
To: Ole Troan <otroan@emp= loyees.org>, 6man WG <ipv6@ietf.= org>, SPRING WG <spring@ietf.o= rg>
Cc: 6man Chairs <6man-cha= irs@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [spring] 6man w.g. last call for <draft-ietf-6man-sp= ring-srv6-oam>

 

Ole,

 

I have reviewed version-02 of this document and beli= eve that it still has the following major issues:

 

- Section 3.1.1 assumes implementation details (e.g.= , that the implementation has an OAM process) but fails to describe any ext= ernally observable behavior. The externally observable behaviors are descri= bed, incompletely, in Sections 4.1.2 and 4.2.2.

 

[ZA] Like you mentioned,= processing details were embedded in the Section 4. We brought them up in t= he Section 3 and also added additional normative language in Section 4. Spe= cifically, In the new revision:

  • We h= ave added normative text at the beginning of 3.1.1 where O-bit is defined.<= o:p>
  • Sections 3.3 and 3.4 adds normative texts for OAM SIDs.
  • 4.1.2 and 4.2.2 further adds additional normative text for Ping and trac= eroute use-cases, respectively.

 

- Section 3.5 seems to be incomplete. What TLV are w= e talking about and what role does it play?

 

[ZA] This has been already addressed. Specifically, = indeed, the draft does not define any TLV for OAM purposes. However, section was ad= ded as future drafts may define OAM TLVs. However, the section has been rem= oved in the new revision.

 

- Section 4 talks about future revisions of this doc= ument. Aren't we in WGLC?

 

[ZA] This has been already addressed in the latest v= ersion.

 

- Section 4.1.2.1 - When the ping succeeds, what doe= s the success message look like? An ICMP Echo Response? What is the source = address? A SID?

 

[ZA] Yes, it is an ICMP Echo Response ICMP Echo Resp= onse. The v03 specifically mentions the same. As mentioned in the draft, th= e upper layer header processing follows RFC4443.  

 

- Section 4.1.2.2 - Does this work with PSP?

 

[ZA] This does not apply. There is no PSP flavor def= ined for END.OP SID.

 

- Section 4.2.2.1 - Do we need to examine flags even= when SL =3D=3D 0?

 

[ZA] The O-bit is for telemetry purpose and packets = with SL=3D0 are also telemetered.

 

 

        &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;   Ron

 

 

 

Juniper Business Use Only

 

-----Original Message-----

From: ipv6 <ipv6-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Ole Troan

Sent: Wednesday, December 4, 2019 3:53 PM=

To: 6man WG <ipv= 6@ietf.org>; SPRING WG <spring= @ietf.org>

Cc: 6man Chairs <6man-chairs@ietf.org>

Subject: 6man w.g. last call for <draft-ietf-6man= -spring-srv6-oam>

 

Hello,

 

  As agreed in the working group session i= n Singapore, this message starts a new two week 6MAN Working Group Last Cal= l on advancing:

 

  Title    : Operation= s, Administration, and Maintenance (OAM) in Segment Routing Networks with I= Pv6 Data plane (SRv6)

  Author   : Z. Ali, C. Filsfils= , S. Matsushima, D. Voyer, M. Chen

  Filename : draft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6-o= am-02

  Pages    : 23

  Date     : 2019-11-2= 0

        &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;  

 

as a Proposed Standard.  

 

Substantive comments and statements of support for p= ublishing this document should be directed to the mailing list.<= /p>

Editorial suggestions can be sent to the author. Thi= s last call will end on the 18th of December 2019.

 

To improve document quality and ensure that bugs are= caught as early as possible, we would require at least two reviewers to do= a complete review of the document.  Please let the chairs know i= f you are willing to be a reviewer.

 

The last call will be forwarded to the spring workin= g group, with discussion directed to the ipv6 list.

 

Thanks,

Bob & Ole, 6man co-chairs

 

 

----------------------------------------------------= ----------------

IETF IPv6 working group mailing list

----------------------------------------------------= ----------------

 

_______________________________________________=

spring mailing list

 

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b=bxEMOwFXQVSHt1FYbVlPC+MU2skaWJWDlMDw6OPNtbT+jeqm+m5TeULrGIHvlTXauIaHu+ h/Sz6P6nj8q3S+eXxDG94RETwo9uD6WfEfs45t4lWKZlv4BQT2yJhhtBNRWn5BPBF2rII+ n25sgpBlrlAvNWU3ML9749pGBOM4r4jKjGV6gjgGzOx0BAjGi4TBJN9f/5QEvx3NcYz2iy 7jJ5S8fA9Vqv7IR0VvDd9UOHAVaF85yQcsTJj6oVNreLu3gjVEDUfJvgD3CxbRKdMIj+Ij I2tYqQRx3Ui9cumcvmrCn2pGYJUYm0pTQpO7Pk7LHsiaWDrkwqw9pEiduPOzrA== To: spring@ietf.org References: <157675597092.27417.15494441164136615153@ietfa.amsl.com> <54EF2F5E-35B9-402B-9864-1237760B2A25@cisco.com> From: Stefano Salsano Message-ID: <60315836-586d-faf0-4395-f3f9e2f6e5bf@uniroma2.it> Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2019 00:35:53 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <54EF2F5E-35B9-402B-9864-1237760B2A25@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: it-IT Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.100.0 at smtp-2015 X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] I-D Action: draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-07.txt X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2019 23:36:13 -0000 Il 2019-12-19 12:51, Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril) ha scritto: > We have published a new revision of draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming that addresses comments received throughout this week. [...] > - Renamed Transit Behaviors section as discussed with Adrian Hi Pablo, I strongly agree with this change... it was misleading to refer to the encapsulation behaviors as "transit" behaviors please align the terminology according to this change, my suggestions follow: 1) in section 7 Security Consideration errata: This document introduces SRv6 Endpoint and Transit Nodes behaviors corrige: This document introduces SRv6 Endpoint and SR Policy Headend behaviors 2) in section 8.4 errata: The following table summarizes which transit capabilities are corrige: The following table summarizes which SR Policy Headend capabilities are errata: Table 2: SRv6 transit behaviors signaling corrige: Table 2: SRv6 Policy Headend behaviors signaling 3) in section 5.1 errata: The H.Encaps transit encapsulation behavior corrige: The H.Encaps encapsulation behavior ciao Stefano > -----Original Message----- > From: spring on behalf of "internet-drafts@ietf.org" > Reply to: "spring@ietf.org" > Date: Thursday, 19 December 2019 at 12:46 > To: "i-d-announce@ietf.org" > Cc: "spring@ietf.org" > Subject: [spring] I-D Action: draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-07.txt > > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. > This draft is a work item of the Source Packet Routing in Networking WG of the IETF. > > Title : SRv6 Network Programming > Authors : Clarence Filsfils > Pablo Camarillo Garvia > John Leddy > Daniel Voyer > Satoru Matsushima > Zhenbin Li > Filename : draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-07.txt > Pages : 38 > Date : 2019-12-19 > > Abstract: > The SRv6 Network Programming framework enables a network operator or > an application to specify a packet packet processing program by > encoding a sequence of instructions in the IPv6 packet header. > > Each instruction is implemented on one or several nodes in the > network and identified by an SRv6 Segment Identifier in the packet. > > This document defines the SRv6 Network Programming concept and > specifies the base set of SRv6 behaviors that enables the creation of > interoperable overlays with underlay optimization (Service Level > Agreements). > > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming/ > > There are also htmlized versions available at: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-07 > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-07 > > A diff from the previous version is available at: > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-07 > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > > > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > -- ******************************************************************* Stefano Salsano Professore Associato Dipartimento Ingegneria Elettronica Universita' di Roma Tor Vergata Viale Politecnico, 1 - 00133 Roma - ITALY http://netgroup.uniroma2.it/Stefano_Salsano/ E-mail : stefano.salsano@uniroma2.it Cell. : +39 320 4307310 Office : (Tel.) +39 06 72597770 (Fax.) +39 06 72597435 ******************************************************************* From nobody Mon Dec 23 17:35:58 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50199120CD8 for ; Mon, 23 Dec 2019 17:35:57 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.099 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"bruno.decraene@orange.com" , "draft-voyer-spring-sr-replication-segment@ietf.org" CC: spring Thread-Topic: IPR Poll: draft-voyer-spring-sr-replication-segment Thread-Index: AdWZercV+XdEVZ/yTWOOVJruoYO+Wggf/Uuw Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2019 01:40:10 +0000 Message-ID: <4278D47A901B3041A737953BAA078ADE14BEF68A@DGGEML532-MBX.china.huawei.com> References: <1416_1573578258_5DCAE612_1416_318_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48C98379@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: <1416_1573578258_5DCAE612_1416_318_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48C98379@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.108.203.165] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_4278D47A901B3041A737953BAA078ADE14BEF68ADGGEML532MBXchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: [spring] =?gb2312?b?tPC4tDogSVBSIFBvbGw6IGRyYWZ0LXZveWVyLXNwcmlu?= 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Dear Chairs, all,

 

We have received IPR confirmations fro= m all authors and contributors of this draft.

 

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

 

Best regards,

Shuping

 

 

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: spring [mailto:spring-bounces@ietf.org] =B4=FA=B1=ED bruno.decraene@orang= e.com
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2019= =C4=EA11=D4= =C213=C8=D5 1:04
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: draft-voyer-spring-sr-replication-segment@ietf.org
=B3=AD=CB=CD: spring <spring@ietf.org>
=D6=F7=CC=E2: [spring] IPR Poll: draft-voyer-spring-sr-replication-segment

 

Hi Authors, SPRING = WG,

 

Authors of draft-vo= yer-spring-sr-replication-segment [1] have asked for WG adoption.

Before the call for= working group adoption we would like to poll for IPR.

 

If you are aware of= IPR that applies to draft-voyer-spring-sr-replication-segment please = respond to this email.

If you are aware of= IPR, please indicate whether it has been disclosed in

accordance to the I= ETF IPR rules (detailed are described in RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378).

 

If you are an *auth= or or contributor* please respond to this email, on the SPRING mailing= list,

regardless of wheth= er or not you're aware of any IPR. If you are not an

author or contribut= or, please explicitly respond only if you're aware of

IPR that has not ye= t been disclosed.

 

This document will = not advance into the working group until such time as

we have received IP= R confirmations from all authors and contributors.

 

Thanks!

 

Rob & Bruno

 

 

[1] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-voyer-spring-sr-replication-segment-00

 

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Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B6E41201C6 for ; Fri, 27 Dec 2019 09:06:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=raszuk.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5DRq4lqMEwwL for ; Fri, 27 Dec 2019 09:06:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qk1-x731.google.com (mail-qk1-x731.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::731]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher 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Fri, 27 Dec 2019 18:05:14 +0100 Message-ID: To: Ron Bonica Cc: SPRING WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000a8d4af059ab27f56" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] 64-bit locators X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2019 17:06:41 -0000 --000000000000a8d4af059ab27f56 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Ron, Great to hear an agreement from you ! Must be power of Christmas :). I actually see no conflict in the claim that SID is not an address in itself with statement that it can be a routable entity which was I believe the original intention of the text you quote. I think your conclusion that we are both wrong based on section 2 of RFC8402 sits at the fact that the term "address" is rather broad and used (as already proven in other messages) imprecisely or loosely all over IETF. It is just like router_id ... it is a numerical representation of a node while the moment you put this numeric 32 bit string under logical interface and advertise it - it suddenly becomes a valid destination target or for that matter src originator. So to your first question ... I think we agreed in the other mail from which spaces the IPv6 locator can be used. Of course as things evolve making any assumption that such binding is going to stay intact would be rather weak advice to any hardware designer. To your second point I think SID itself when mapped to interface can be a src. I see really nothing which could prevent me to use any address as src or dst in my network. I am actually not sure where are you going with those if you will "restrictions" as to the SID semantical components. To me SID is a locally significant value in the network (including overlay network) which chooses to use SRv6 and I really see no reason to constrain it in any additional way. Perhaps your point is that SID does not fit to RFC4291 IPv6 Addressing Architecture. Well perhaps but if so RFC8402 should be listed in 4291 as updating it - just like 5952, 6052, 7136, 7346, 7371, 8064 all do. Frankly I am not sure why it is not there now in the first place. Kind regards, Robert. On Fri, Dec 27, 2019 at 4:21 PM Ron Bonica wrote: > Robert, > > > > Personally, I agree with what you say below. =E2=80=9CA SID is NOT an IPv= 6 > address.=E2=80=9D > > > > However, Section 2 of RFC 8402 says that we are both wrong. It defines an > SRv6 SID as follows: > > > > =E2=80=9CSRv6 SID: an IPv6 address explicitly associated with the segment= .=E2=80=9D > > > > So, assuming that a SID is an IPv6 address, we must figure out how it fit= s > into the IPv6 addressing architecture. Questions like the following must = be > answered: > > > > - From which special purpose prefixes [RFC 6890] can SIDs be drawn? > - Can a SID appear in the source address field of an IPv6 packet? > > > > So far, the co-authors have avoided such issues. > > > > Ron > > > > > > *From:* Robert Raszuk > *Sent:* Saturday, December 21, 2019 6:43 PM > *To:* Ron Bonica > *Cc:* Andrew Alston ; Alexandre Petrescu > ; SPRING WG ; Gyan Mishra = < > hayabusagsm@gmail.com>; Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril) ; > Mark Smith > *Subject:* Re: [spring] 64-bit locators > > > > Hey Ron, > > > > > Leaving both chickens and eggs in the hen house=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6.. > > > > Indeed ... after all it is not Easter Time ! > > > > > Only one answer can be correct =F0=9F=98=89 > > > > To me this is very obvious ... > > > > SID is NOT an IPv6 address. Part of the SID is a locator which is used fo= r > vanilla IPv6 forwarding (based on IPv6 routing prefixes), but that is all > this 128 bit string has in common with IPv6. > > > > Merry SID-less Christmas, > R. > > > > > > On Sat, Dec 21, 2019 at 9:32 PM Ron Bonica wrote: > > Robert, > > > > Leaving both chickens and eggs in the hen house=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6.. > > > > We have never explicitly stated whether a SID **is** and IPv6 address or = **merely > resembles** an IPv6 address. Which is it? > > > > Hint: This is a multiple choice question. Only one answer can be correct > =F0=9F=98=89 > > > > Happy Holidays, > > Ron > > > > --000000000000a8d4af059ab27f56 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Ron,

Great=C2=A0to hear a= n agreement from you ! Must be power of Christmas :).=C2=A0

<= /div>
I actually see no conflict in the claim that SID is not an addres= s in itself with statement that it can be a routable entity which was I bel= ieve the original intention of the text you quote.=C2=A0

I think your conclusion that we are both wrong based on section 2 of= RFC8402 sits at the fact that the term "address" is rather broad= and used (as already proven in other messages) imprecisely or loosely all = over IETF.=C2=A0

It is just like router_id ... it = is a numerical representation of a node while the moment you put this numer= ic 32 bit string under logical interface and advertise it - it suddenly=C2= =A0becomes a valid destination target or for that matter src originator.=C2= =A0

So to your first question ... I think we agree= d in the other mail from which spaces the IPv6 locator can be used. Of cour= se as things evolve making any assumption that such binding is going to sta= y intact would be rather weak advice to any hardware designer.=C2=A0
<= div>
To your second=C2=A0point I think SID itself when mapped= to interface can be a src. I see really nothing which could prevent me to = use any address as src or dst in my network.=C2=A0

I am actually not sure where are you going with those if you will "re= strictions" as to the SID semantical components. To me SID is a locall= y significant value in the network (including overlay network) which choose= s to use SRv6 and I really see no reason to constrain it in any additional = way.=C2=A0

Perhaps your point is that SID does not= fit to RFC4291 IPv6 Addressing Architecture. Well perhaps but if so RFC840= 2 should be listed in 4291 as updating it - just like=C2=A05952, 6052, 7136= , 7346, 7371, 8064 all do. Frankly I am not sure why it is not there now in= the first place.=C2=A0

Kind regards,
Ro= bert.


Robert,

=C2=A0

Personally, I agree with what you say below. =E2=80= =9CA SID is NOT an IPv6 address.=E2=80=9D

=C2=A0

However, Section 2 of RFC 8402 says that we are both= wrong. It defines an SRv6 SID as follows:

=C2=A0

=E2=80=9CSRv6 SID: an IPv6 address explicitly associated with the segmen= t.=E2=80=9D

=C2=A0

So, assuming that a SID is an IPv6 address, we must = figure out how it fits into the IPv6 addressing architecture. Questions lik= e the following must be answered:

=C2=A0

  • From which special purpose prefixes [RFC 6890= ] =C2=A0can SIDs be drawn?
  • = Can a SID appear in the source address field of an IPv6 packet?

=C2=A0

So far, the co-authors have avoided such issues.<= /u>

=C2=A0

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Ron

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

From: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2019 6:43 PM
To: Ron Bonica <rbonica@juniper.net>
Cc: Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com>; Alexandre P= etrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>; SPRING WG <spring@ietf.org>; Gyan Mishra <<= a href=3D"mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">hayabusagsm@gmail= .com>; Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril) <pcamaril@cisco.com>; Mark Smith <markzzzsmith@gmail.co= m>
Subject: Re: [spring] 64-bit locators

=C2=A0

Hey Ron,

=C2=A0

> Leaving both chickens and eggs in the hen house= =E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6..=C2=A0=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Indeed ... after all it is not Easter Time !=C2=A0

=C2=A0

> Only one answer can be correct=C2=A0=F0=9F=98=89= =C2=A0=C2=A0

=C2=A0

To me this is very obvious ...=C2=A0

=C2=A0

SID is NOT an IPv6 address. Part of the SID is a loc= ator which is used for vanilla IPv6 forwarding (based on IPv6 routing prefi= xes), but that is all this 128 bit string has in common with IPv6.=C2=A0=

=C2=A0

Merry SID-less Christmas,
R.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

On Sat, Dec 21, 2019 at 9:32 PM Ron Bonica <rbonica@juniper.net= > wrote:

Robert,

=C2=A0

Leaving both chickens and eggs in the hen house=E2= =80=A6=E2=80=A6..

=C2=A0

We have never explicitly stated whether a SID *is= * and IPv6 address or *merely resembles* an IPv6 address. Which = is it?

=C2=A0

Hint: This is a multiple choice question. Only one a= nswer can be correct =F0=9F=98= =89

=C2=A0

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Happy Holidays,

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Ro= n

=C2=A0

--000000000000a8d4af059ab27f56-- From nobody Fri Dec 27 11:29:12 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1D07120909 for ; Fri, 27 Dec 2019 11:29:11 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.597 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.597 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, MAY_BE_FORGED=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FUQUse4ohkZu for ; Fri, 27 Dec 2019 11:29:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from mta7.iomartmail.com (mta7.iomartmail.com [62.128.193.157]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 602ED1208E0 for ; Fri, 27 Dec 2019 11:29:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from vs2.iomartmail.com (vs2.iomartmail.com [10.12.10.123]) by mta7.iomartmail.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id xBRJT2kY028473; Fri, 27 Dec 2019 19:29:02 GMT Received: from vs2.iomartmail.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by IMSVA (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0C5C22044; Fri, 27 Dec 2019 19:29:02 +0000 (GMT) Received: from asmtp1.iomartmail.com (unknown [10.12.10.248]) by vs2.iomartmail.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9BF9B22042; Fri, 27 Dec 2019 19:29:02 +0000 (GMT) Received: from LAPTOPK7AS653V (185-58-55-221.customers.tirolnet.com [185.58.55.221] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp1.iomartmail.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id xBRJSXtP003884 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 27 Dec 2019 19:29:02 GMT Reply-To: From: "Adrian Farrel" To: "'Pablo Camarillo \(pcamaril\)'" Cc: References: <17421_1575566127_5DE93B2F_17421_93_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48D1A3DA@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <035701d5ac4d$a3ea7ad0$ebbf7070$@olddog.co.uk> <0CB8E109-95E3-4A75-BCEF-1186817F68CE@cisco.com> <062c01d5b06f$bf4b76f0$3de264d0$@olddog.co.uk> In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2019 19:28:33 -0000 Organization: Old Dog Consulting Message-ID: <000f01d5bceb$e56dc350$b04949f0$@olddog.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQKiVutP/sPEol3Kl3K9aNZrJmBKoAKU5q/XAgYPVnEB0w+WwgG5XkwopfPETVA= Content-Language: en-gb X-Originating-IP: 185.58.55.221 X-Thinkmail-Auth: adrian@olddog.co.uk X-TM-AS-GCONF: 00 X-TM-AS-Product-Ver: IMSVA-9.0.0.1623-8.2.0.1013-25132.002 X-TM-AS-Result: No--17.349-10.0-31-10 X-imss-scan-details: No--17.349-10.0-31-10 X-TMASE-Version: IMSVA-9.0.0.1623-8.2.1013-25132.002 X-TMASE-Result: 10--17.349000-10.000000 X-TMASE-MatchedRID: 8HTFlOrbAtGyoI+bK8UPQnFPUrVDm6jt1WwSQLxOvlUTvdh6VFADyTPL 4IpXLngeGTMtyR+11BAOTuh/VaLhzEl1QBuOVAUMaPXXRVSBBovIEQTlh1/QMVhs8uimgHNCJkK /E7btc7NA/wDjVQ3ooD6Ot1kkU6saSnUqDs/R//UD2WXLXdz+AQZyESFXAljfe7ijHq7g9obTZ9 Wt1IEO+BRx762Th3kz74stnIm4P8Bqh+ZwiDQlS5K9FvwQx1hFfLNHMurfykhTpFNEkr6HJsmWT +h5S9Ng2gkDLfDgF4ml8brZMAV8Y2As6CFGKh4grdLFFKR7dulpFbUvmRjLcgbYcy9YQl6eXZrp mK5A+7T7nGGoxPDfng1Vne6ruInSPmKDzjF+t1BxPA6arkYp0GQBrQiRNt2IqPGqHIPGZiNDAvn /gQtzahwgoGMJ+H2zYx1rfvEm9E3dszRFwcTb57zgL/eLACDEuoKFNtn4sqP+7KZICEbEshxpgC zz8XrXkkJ8gFxhltjGGYg3mTSEyVveAk06OSKsbWgRGvgWOREft0d48Iev3+QydRUvl3QTAEOxG w6OfA3VoERDD5Sflnc1ZaiuhQysD+bxlHlzfzUHIUJsejWV9CIk3dpe5X+hvjdkdo+07/6A2U4D oCTZiO1wbykd6xTu5u2idQTviR8WUcwJqSCXncBfYoduOb6LSkWlzdsmIx75w23Kuluq0bnKeol HNmVg5q5c/gQ8dUgKNPLapsvgO7/KM1zCNPCMAI0UpQvEYJm/yN2q8U674pm7qvjz9eAEBTybns JRoKb4t7Ggrzlk7iMc2ott4KOcBsdYbEqwgW6eAiCmPx4NwFkMvWAuahr8i2QFaYS1v20qtq5d3 cxkNQwWxr7XDKH8lExlQIQeRG0= X-TMASE-SNAP-Result: 1.821001.0001-0-1-12:0,22:0,33:0,34:0-0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2019 19:29:12 -0000 Thanks Pablo and Happy Imminent New Year. > I have reviewed your suggested changes and incorporated them > in the latest revision of the document.=20 Great. I will try to pull that and review it soon. > Please see below inline for more detail. [snipped] =20 >> 4.1 >> >> I was surprised by... >> >> S01. When an SRH is processed { >> S02. If (Segments Left =3D=3D 0) { >> S03. Send an ICMP Parameter Problem message to the Source = Address >> Code TBD-SRH (SR Upper-layer Header Error), >> Pointer set to the offset of the upper-layer = header, >> interrupt packet processing and discard the packet >> S04. } >> S05. If (IPv6 Hop Limit <=3D 1) { >> S06. Send an ICMP Time Exceeded message to the Source = Address, >> Code 0 (Hop limit exceeded in transit), >> interrupt packet processing and discard the packet >> S07. } >> >> Are you sure that Hop Limit processing is left so late? Isn't it = one of >> the first things done with a packet before even the SRH is = discovered to >> be present? > > PC: Is there any difference on the hop limit check if I do it two = lines earlier?=20 > I believe that the end result is the same. =20 It makes a difference which ICMP error is sent. I would argue that = you shouldn't be looking at the SRH of a packet when the Hop Limit has = expired. PC: I've checked with the SRH draft and the ICMP check is the last check = happening in the pseudocode. I would tend to agree that this should be = the last thing done once you have determined that the packet needs to be = forwarded.=20 AF: So, just to check I understand what you are saying. If a packet = arrives with Hop Limit already at zero you would still look inside the = SRH? =20 >> 4.1 (and other sections) >>=20 >> I spent rather too much time trying to work out >>=20 >> S08. max_LE =3D (Hdr Ext Len / 2) - 1 >> S09. If ((Last Entry > max_LE) or (Segments Left > Last = Entry+1)) { >>=20 >> As far as I can see, for an SRH, >>=20 >> Hdr Ext Len =3D 7 + (16 * (Last Entry + 1) ) + sum(all TLV = lengths) >>=20 >> So, while I see that you want to check that Last Entry doesn't = point out >> beyond the end of the SRH, I don't see how your computation of = max_LE=20 >> helps. >>=20 >> What have I missed? >=20 > PC: How do you propose to check whether Last Entry value exceeds > the maximum possible theoretical Last Entry value? > The only information you have is the Header Extension Length. = Based > on this I compute the maximum theoretical Last Entry possible = value, > and then just compare the values. > > Maybe I am the one who have missed something. If you have a = simpler > proposal please let me know. =20 OK, we agree that the right thing to do is work out the largest = possible Last Entry value (max_LE) and compare it to the actual Last = Entry value. That is good. =20 I also agree that all you have in hand is the Header Extension = Length (Hdr Ext Len) =20 I just don't think that you are computing the right value for max_LE = using max_LE =3D (Hdr Ext Len / 2) - 1. =20 I would agree that max_LE < (Hdr Ext Len / 2) - 1 so that comparing = Last Entry with that value provides a check. I just don't think it is a = very precise check. =20 Perhaps my understanding of the actual value of Hdr Ext Len is = incorrect, but if I am right, then you could probably get closer to a = good number. =20 PC: Ok. I rechecked it and I believe that we cannot get any better than = that. [RFC8200] Hdr Ext Len 8-bit unsigned integer. Length of the Routing header in 8-octet units, not including the first 8 octets. [draft-ietf-6man-segment-routing-header-26] o Last Entry: contains the index (zero based), in the Segment List, of the last element of the Segment List. Let us consider an SRH containing k SIDs and 0 or more TLVs. Hdr Ext Len >=3D k x (16 / 8) =3D k x 2 Last Entry =3D k - 1 Isolating k on one side of each equation: k <=3D Hdr Ext Len / 2 k =3D Last Entry + 1 Combining the two equations together: Last Entry + 1 <=3D Hdr Ext Len / 2 Isolating Last Entry on one side of the equation: Last Entry <=3D Hdr Ext Len / 2 - 1 Further note that, if no TLV is present, we have: Last Entry =3D Hdr Ext Len / 2 - 1 PC: If I'm still missing the point let me know! AF: Very (very) sorry. My bad. I entirely missed " Length of the Routing header *in*8-octet*units*, not = including the first 8 octets" Now I feel stupid. >> 6.1 >>=20 >> I agree with this section, but I am concerned that you are = updating=20 >> draft-ietf-6man-segment-routing-header by adding normative = language to >> describe nodes that process the SRH. Does that mean you should = use an >> "Updates" clause in the document header? >> =20 >> After describing CNT-1 and CNt-2 you say... >>=20 >> Furthermore, an SRv6 capable node maintains an aggregate = counter >> CNT-3 tracking the IPv6 traffic that was received with a = destination >> address matching a local interface address that is not a = locally >> instantiated SID and the next-header is SRH with SL>0. >>=20 >> That looks like s/maintains/MUST maintain/ unless you have a = reference >> for the assertion that it does maintain CNT-3. > > PC: I disagree that this is an update to the SRH. The SRH defines = a > header and one type of segment processing. > Defining a counter is not related to the SRH at all. =20 Well, perhaps you didn't just say what you meant to say because the = text I quoted most clearly says that the counter is counting events = related to the SRH. =20 But to the point: the document says... Any SRv6 capable node SHOULD implement the following set of = combined counters (packets and bytes): "Any SRv6 capable node" is clearly in the scope of = draft-ietf-6man-segment-routing-header PC: This document talks of the processing and behaviours of SRv6. And = hence the counters are included in this draft. AF: Last try before I give up on this one (you may be relieved to know). Does every device that supports SRv6 have to support this document? I = had formed the impression not: that is a simple SRv6 routing node = functions fine without this document (even if this document also = describes it's behaviour). But, in the quoted text you are adding = description of function for all "SRv6 capable nodes" that is not = described elsewhere. So either: - it is not possible to have an SRv6 capable node prior to this draft or - you are updating some other document that describes SRv6 capable nodes Many thanks for the work, Adrian From nobody Fri Dec 27 12:11:19 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03D1B1200E5 for ; Fri, 27 Dec 2019 12:11:18 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.022 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.022 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665, URIBL_PH_SURBL=0.61] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5m5zOmXII4M0 for ; Fri, 27 Dec 2019 12:11:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from sainfoin-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (sainfoin-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr [132.167.192.228]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1803412006F for ; Fri, 27 Dec 2019 12:11:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by sainfoin-sys.extra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id xBRKB9YA027515; Fri, 27 Dec 2019 21:11:09 +0100 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id 70FB3202BF5; Fri, 27 Dec 2019 21:11:09 +0100 (CET) Received: from muguet1-smtp-out.intra.cea.fr (muguet1-smtp-out.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.12]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56A27201595; Fri, 27 Dec 2019 21:11:09 +0100 (CET) Received: from [10.11.240.11] ([10.11.240.11]) by muguet1-sys.intra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id xBRKB8bg007724; Fri, 27 Dec 2019 21:11:08 +0100 To: Robert Raszuk , Ron Bonica Cc: Andrew Alston , SPRING WG , Gyan Mishra , "Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)" , Mark Smith References: <8f5607c9-645a-ea88-e2a7-a4bed8206fc8@gmail.com> <63F5AA66-AEF8-4278-B98C-D3C53AC5A60A@cisco.com> <069e6021-537c-422a-37da-f090a6ac334b@gmail.com> From: Alexandre Petrescu Message-ID: <877e46a2-443b-1945-ea9a-8b178dcf34f2@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2019 21:11:08 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] 64-bit locators X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2019 20:11:18 -0000 Le 22/12/2019 à 00:42, Robert Raszuk a écrit : > Hey Ron, > > > Leaving both chickens and eggs in the hen house…….. > > Indeed ... after all it is not Easter Time ! > > > Only one answer can be correct 😉 > > To me this is very obvious ... > > SID is NOT an IPv6 address. If not, then one cant represent it with the hextet-column notation "2001:db8::" because that denotes an IPv6 address. A new notation for SID might be needed. Alex Part of the SID is a locator which is used > for vanilla IPv6 forwarding (based on IPv6 routing prefixes), but that > is all this 128 bit string has in common with IPv6. If it > > Merry SID-less Christmas, > R. > > > On Sat, Dec 21, 2019 at 9:32 PM Ron Bonica > wrote: > > Robert,____ > > __ __ > > Leaving both chickens and eggs in the hen house……..____ > > __ __ > > We have never explicitly stated whether a SID **is** and IPv6 > address or **merely resembles** an IPv6 address. Which is it?____ > > __ __ > > Hint: This is a multiple choice question. Only one answer can be > correct 😉____ > > __ __ > >                                                     Happy Holidays,____ > >                                                            Ron____ > > __ __ > > __ __ > > *From:* spring > *On Behalf Of *Robert Raszuk > *Sent:* Friday, December 20, 2019 10:45 AM > *To:* Andrew Alston > > *Cc:* Alexandre Petrescu >; SPRING WG >; Gyan Mishra >; Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril) > >; Mark Smith > > > *Subject:* Re: [spring] 64-bit locators____ > > __ __ > > > So  we are left with a chicken and egg situation – is the SID an > address or isn’t it. ____ > > __ __ > > I do not see here neither chicken nor an egg here. SID definition > for SRv6 is very clear. It is . ____ > > __ __ > > Done. ____ > > __ __ > > Obviously LOCator part is routable. ____ > > __ __ > > Thx, > R.____ > > __ __ > > On Fri, Dec 20, 2019 at 4:33 PM Andrew Alston > > wrote:____ > > +1____ > > ____ > > I have long argued that SRv6 essentially redefines and overloads > the ipv6 address as defined – the argument that I have been > given is that the SID is in fact not an address – however – by > virtue of the fact that the SID in SRv6 is copied into the > address field during traffic steering – and routing occurs based > on that DA – it most certainly is an address.____ > > ____ > > So  we are left with a chicken and egg situation – is the SID an > address or isn’t it.  If it isn’t – I 100% agree with you that > something else should be used – in which case how do you address > the steering issue.  If it is an address – then this draft > fundamentally redefines the IPv6 address semantics – and I would > argue that should only be done by an update of RFC4291, and > potentially a number of other documents which rely on the > current semantic.____ > > ____ > > But – either way – I do not think we can argue that the SID and > a v6 address are currently different things in the drafts – > since a SID is copied into the DA field – and used to route on – > and while that remains – I have stated before, and will state > again, I have deep concerns as to the unknown consequences of > fundamentally changing the semantics of an address as it was > defined in other RFC’s and as have wide deployment.____ > > ____ > > Thanks____ > > ____ > > Andrew____ > > ____ > > ____ > > __ __ > > Juniper Business Use Only____ > > *From:* spring > *On Behalf Of *Alexandre Petrescu > *Sent:* Friday, 20 December 2019 18:19 > *To:* Robert Raszuk >; Gyan Mishra > > *Cc:* SPRING WG >; Mark > Smith >; > Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril) > > *Subject:* Re: [spring] 64-bit locators____ > > ____ > > > > Le 20/12/2019 à 00:07, Robert Raszuk a écrit : > > > > Fixed length of any field LOC:FUNC:ARGs makes no sense to me. > What is > > optimal for Ron or Mark may not be optimal for me. > > I think I can legitimately wonder whether the 'SID' Segment > Identfier > should not be something else than an IP address. > > Making a SID an IP address might lead to other well-known > confusions > like in OSPF: there is a Router ID which is an IP address in some > manufacturer's speak, it works fine, but it does not reply to > ping under > any configuration whatsoever. > > That is not a good thing. The router id looks like an IP address > but it > is not one. When migrating OSPF to IPv6 all was changed but the > Router > ID stayed like an IPv4 address. So it is an IPv6 OSPF but has > some IPv4 > in it. > > The column-hextet notation, or more precisely something like > "2001:db8::", denotes an IP address. Not only is it a Documentaiton > Prefix, but it is an IP address. There is an RFC for it. It is > somehow > reserved and it shouldnt be used for something else, otherwise it > creates confusion. > > It could be easy to create a new space for SID, with its distinct > notation, like 64bit identifiers "ab_cd_ef_gh_01_02__". Nobody > would > try to ping these because they dont look like IP addresses. > > Then, we might wonder whether these SIDs should be fixed or > variable length.. > > Alex > > > > > While we are at that fixed size of 128 bits of IPv6 also > makes no sense > > - but that vessel left the harbour a while ago. > > > > Cheers, > > R. > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 10:57 PM Gyan Mishra > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 4:17 PM Mark Smith > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > On Thu, 19 Dec 2019, 22:48 Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril), > > >> wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > As mentioned in the draft, the choice of the locator length > > is deployment specific. > > LINE has deployed SRv6 using a locator different than a /64. > > > > > > This is effectively an appeal to authority. > > > > What makes what LINE has done the best and right thing to do? > > > > I can already see they're using the IPv4 link-local 169.254/16 > > prefix in a manner that wildly violates how it is specified to > > be used in RFC3927. See Slides 9, 12, 24. > > > > Tying your IPv6 addressing plan to IPv4 addressing could end up > > imposing IPv4's addressing limitations on IPv6 - defeating the > > primary purpose of IPv6 - providing many more addresses than > IPv4. > > > > Slide 32 shows they're violating RFC 4193 (IPv6 ULAs), because > > they're using ULA-Cs ('fc') rather than ULA-Ls ('fd'), despite > > there being no central registry.  Their 40 bit Global ID of "17" > > could be random, although I'm guessing not, as random numbers > > would usually have far less zeros in them. These sorts of ULA > > errors are why I presented "Getting IPv6 Addressing Right" at > > AusNOG this year - > > > https://www.slideshare.net/markzzzsmith/ausnog-2019-getting-ipv6-private-addressing-right >  . > > > > > > This is an Internet Draft, so this is the best time to make > > these sorts of changes, as it is much easier now. When things > > become RFCs it becomes much harder (and much, much harder when > > they become Internet Standards). > > > > If somebody has deployed Internet Draft level technology, they > > have to accept the risk that what they've deployed might not > > comply with the eventual RFC. > > > > Regards, > > Mark. > > > >  [Gyan] For IPv6 addressing you can have any length prefix up to > > /128.  i am all for flexibility with vlsm even though may not be > > widely used. > > > > SRv6 SID encoding differs in that we had 3 fields > > {locator;function;arguments} that I think it makes sense to > be fixed > > in the specification as Ron has brought up. > > > > From an operator perspective for programmability as SRv6 > > deployments with or without centralized controller, fixed > length of > > the 3 fields makes sense so operators can easily craft ACLs for > > deployments. > > > > I think we could go crazy with the sizing but I think since > 64 bit > > boundary exists today for slaac we could make the locator /64 as > > well is fine.  We could split the other 2 fields evenly 32 > bits each > > or make the function longer.  I think we’ll defined sizing is > > important so SID addressing plan is not chaotic. > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > Pablo. > > > > [1] > > > https://speakerdeck.com/line_developers/line-data-center-networking-with-srv6 > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: spring > > > on behalf of Alexandre > > Petrescu > > > > > Date: Thursday, 19 December 2019 at 09:44 > > To: "spring@ietf.org > " > > >> > > Subject: Re: [spring] 64-bit locators > > > > > > > >     Le 19/12/2019 à 00:13, Mark Smith a écrit : > >     [...] > > > >     > VLSM [variable length subnet mask] is fundamentally hard, > > > >     We need VLSM in other places too, such as in ULA > > prefixes fd and fc. > > > >     I think it is indeed a difficult to grasp concept, but > > it is there for > >     growth. > > > >     Alex > > > >     > > >     > Regards, > >     > Mark. > >     > > >     >     __ > >     > > >     >     In this case, we should probably change the > > document to reflect > >     >     implemented behavior.____ > >     > > >     >     __ __ > >     > > >     > > >     > > >                     Ron____ > >     > > >     >     __ __ > >     > > >     > > >     >     Juniper Business Use Only > >     > > >     >     _______________________________________________ > >     >     spring mailing list > >     > spring@ietf.org > > > >> > >     > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > > >     > > >     > > >     > _______________________________________________ > >     > spring mailing list > >     > spring@ietf.org > > >     > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > > >     > > > > >     _______________________________________________ > >     spring mailing list > > spring@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > spring mailing list > > spring@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > spring mailing list > > spring@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > > > > > -- > > > > Gyan S. Mishra > > > > IT Network Engineering & Technology > > > > Verizon Communications Inc. (VZ) > > > > 13101 Columbia Pike FDC1 3rd Floor > > > > Silver Spring, MD 20904 > > > > United States > > > > Phone: 301 502-1347 > > > > Email: gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com > > > > > > www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies-consultant > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > spring mailing list > > spring@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > > > > > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > ____ > From nobody Fri Dec 27 14:16:57 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFF70120815 for ; Fri, 27 Dec 2019 14:16:55 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.498 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.498 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, FROM_LOCAL_NOVOWEL=0.5, HK_RANDOM_ENVFROM=0.001, HK_RANDOM_FROM=0.999, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sRELpwN-G7dO for ; Fri, 27 Dec 2019 14:16:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ot1-x331.google.com (mail-ot1-x331.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::331]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8F8EA120639 for ; Fri, 27 Dec 2019 14:16:53 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ot1-x331.google.com with SMTP id k16so33309260otb.2 for ; Fri, 27 Dec 2019 14:16:53 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=nAfkRpWprEc7LHXOFayAIp57pn53PGK8gCMZXI7UKLI=; b=PyDypDGVg1mpOq2ksC3mq/wkBIqfh1WFpHtT0yAHnUizpKnEBmCJL40+EP1c6pfOGV s5ZxI88G6QyoobvcY/P6B7zEvXuvbMJAB+f1lKQzMNU61oDrivxTTVB6u1lPTWjeNI1I HiMNnzE8oI8P137I3nkIBhGY462a4mqQRUThiZWEJ169I/hM2veta1UcknROa9JYw7Jz sdmQFw3wJl0GTysEc+RfYbgeotP6EfDjGoJV8dFtqUG7QPuZAY+eNCX6JLnMk36+NBlz Os5JYjL1j9tRjaC/C6uZEfAE8QGGdNPobcGAvhIaj8FuSWcrfRopBqNB9fi2A90cdzfk dB2w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=nAfkRpWprEc7LHXOFayAIp57pn53PGK8gCMZXI7UKLI=; b=G5BYQAOgNB8bCRJpk5eznB6yRqpkflV11nnlDioFSnIH6VtMBVWMMmPrg8pAmu9MVk gaA1uHolXCWgD8VCQvjsdg6UXtoHlwiLYeQZaxfqmGQd2z5M6NO/aCpVGCuckYRv4Wl7 /2qdkj5PPEkt2b7sgcEM7SynkQtVw8tCoCxdjf0e/zekRqWxBTLkrUvz+xs/M5GLpj6W GqlCPgnT7Ge8cjWuudzOI/9gR8cDA97ChPtbR4G4z2I8N2uniBILIpNASt5RlBPMdHR7 FcUo1utPc7nFL84+lIru6Q1edKPKJsr2NAYwbrCAVgh5RqyuRnml6mxdNGHSAC3sEvuy MwWQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAX9mf26fcbBnryRSq7s6dfkHOLBqf2U+s82+nhbuB5apZdTkSwx vXys3dxHFj05bxea65qK2x/dKDjnpAq3e1Ue7Dk= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqw0vZ675Jftoz6H0VvlFqmhMLYxpNCQYx2LWqvaRO5rdh1hHE2tJg3kKMJQRRcm8PGxWXw/eJQArwavaCYI93I= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6830:151a:: with SMTP id k26mr41177087otp.74.1577485012870; Fri, 27 Dec 2019 14:16:52 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <8f5607c9-645a-ea88-e2a7-a4bed8206fc8@gmail.com> <63F5AA66-AEF8-4278-B98C-D3C53AC5A60A@cisco.com> <069e6021-537c-422a-37da-f090a6ac334b@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: From: Mark Smith Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2019 09:16:40 +1100 Message-ID: To: Robert Raszuk Cc: Ron Bonica , SPRING WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000d4ab18059ab6d9ed" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] 64-bit locators X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2019 22:16:56 -0000 --000000000000d4ab18059ab6d9ed Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, 28 Dec 2019, 04:06 Robert Raszuk, wrote: > Hi Ron, > > Great to hear an agreement from you ! Must be power of Christmas :). > > I actually see no conflict in the claim that SID is not an address in > itself with statement that it can be a routable entity which was I believ= e > the original intention of the text you quote. > > I think your conclusion that we are both wrong based on section 2 of > RFC8402 sits at the fact that the term "address" is rather broad and used > (as already proven in other messages) imprecisely or loosely all over IET= F. > > It is just like router_id ... it is a numerical representation of a node > while the moment you put this numeric 32 bit string under logical interfa= ce > and advertise it - it suddenly becomes a valid destination target or for > that matter src originator. > Router IDs aren't used outside of the protocol they're defined in. OSPF and BGP don't eventually put the RID in an IPv4 packet's DA field. I've used a router ID of 255.255.255.255 in OSPF as a temporary special RID because our convention was to have the RID match the unicast OAM address of the router. I knew the IPv4 broadcast address value wouldn't conflict. I knew it wouldn't cause problems for OSPF because OSPF never uses it as an IPv4 DA. The key point is that RIDs look like IPv4 addresses, but are not. They only have adopted the formatting convention of IPv4 addresses. They're 32 bit quantities. They could have just as easily been formatted as 0x hex strings e.g. 0xffffffff for my example. Their continued use as 32 bit quantities and identifiers in IPv6 supporting OSPFv3 shows how decoupled from both IPv4 and IPv6 they are. SIDs on the other hand are at some point in time used as IPv6 destination addresses. That means they have to either always comply with IPv6 address requirements - RFC4291 - or be converted to meet IPv6 address requirements when they're used as IPv6 addresses (e.g. they're 64 bit quantities that are then used as an IPv6 Interface Identifier by prepending an IPv6 addressing compliant /64 prefix) > So to your first question ... I think we agreed in the other mail from > which spaces the IPv6 locator can be used. Of course as things evolve > making any assumption that such binding is going to stay intact would be > rather weak advice to any hardware designer. > > To your second point I think SID itself when mapped to interface can be a > src. I see really nothing which could prevent me to use any address as sr= c > or dst in my network. > > I am actually not sure where are you going with those if you will > "restrictions" as to the SID semantical components. To me SID is a locall= y > significant value in the network (including overlay network) which choose= s > to use SRv6 and I really see no reason to constrain it in any additional > way. > > Perhaps your point is that SID does not fit to RFC4291 IPv6 Addressing > Architecture. Well perhaps but if so RFC8402 should be listed in 4291 as > updating it - just like 5952, 6052, 7136, 7346, 7371, 8064 all do. Frankl= y > I am not sure why it is not there now in the first place. > > Kind regards, > Robert. > > > On Fri, Dec 27, 2019 at 4:21 PM Ron Bonica wrote: > >> Robert, >> >> >> >> Personally, I agree with what you say below. =E2=80=9CA SID is NOT an IP= v6 >> address.=E2=80=9D >> >> >> >> However, Section 2 of RFC 8402 says that we are both wrong. It defines a= n >> SRv6 SID as follows: >> >> >> >> =E2=80=9CSRv6 SID: an IPv6 address explicitly associated with the segmen= t.=E2=80=9D >> >> >> >> So, assuming that a SID is an IPv6 address, we must figure out how it >> fits into the IPv6 addressing architecture. Questions like the following >> must be answered: >> >> >> >> - From which special purpose prefixes [RFC 6890] can SIDs be drawn? >> - Can a SID appear in the source address field of an IPv6 packet? >> >> >> >> So far, the co-authors have avoided such issues. >> >> >> >> Ron >> >> >> >> >> >> *From:* Robert Raszuk >> *Sent:* Saturday, December 21, 2019 6:43 PM >> *To:* Ron Bonica >> *Cc:* Andrew Alston ; Alexandre >> Petrescu ; SPRING WG ; >> Gyan Mishra >; Pablo >> Camarillo (pcamaril) ; Mark Smith < >> markzzzsmith@gmail.com> >> *Subject:* Re: [spring] 64-bit locators >> >> >> >> Hey Ron, >> >> >> >> > Leaving both chickens and eggs in the hen house=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6.. >> >> >> >> Indeed ... after all it is not Easter Time ! >> >> >> >> > Only one answer can be correct =F0=9F=98=89 >> >> >> >> To me this is very obvious ... >> >> >> >> SID is NOT an IPv6 address. Part of the SID is a locator which is used >> for vanilla IPv6 forwarding (based on IPv6 routing prefixes), but that i= s >> all this 128 bit string has in common with IPv6. >> >> >> >> Merry SID-less Christmas, >> R. >> >> >> >> >> >> On Sat, Dec 21, 2019 at 9:32 PM Ron Bonica wrote: >> >> Robert, >> >> >> >> Leaving both chickens and eggs in the hen house=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6.. >> >> >> >> We have never explicitly stated whether a SID **is** and IPv6 address or >> **merely resembles** an IPv6 address. Which is it? >> >> >> >> Hint: This is a multiple choice question. Only one answer can be correct >> =F0=9F=98=89 >> >> >> >> Happy Holidays, >> >> Ron >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > --000000000000d4ab18059ab6d9ed Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Sat, 28 Dec 2019, 04:06 Robert Raszuk, <robert@r= aszuk.net> wrote:
Hi Ron,

Great=C2=A0to hear an agreem= ent from you ! Must be power of Christmas :).=C2=A0

I actually see no conflict in the claim that SID is not an address in its= elf with statement that it can be a routable entity which was I believe the= original intention of the text you quote.=C2=A0

I think your conclusion tha= t we are both wrong based on section 2 of RFC8402 sits at the fact that the= term "address" is rather broad and used (as already proven in ot= her messages) imprecisely or loosely all over IETF.=C2=A0

It is just like router_id ... it is a numerical representation of a= node while the moment you put this numeric 32 bit string under logical int= erface and advertise it - it suddenly=C2=A0becomes a valid destination targ= et or for that matter src originator.=C2=A0
<= /div>

Router IDs aren't us= ed outside of the protocol they're defined in. OSPF and BGP don't e= ventually put the RID in an IPv4 packet's DA field.

I've used a router ID of 255.255.255.25= 5 in OSPF as a temporary special RID because our convention was to have the= RID match the unicast OAM address of the router. I knew the IPv4 broadcast= address value wouldn't conflict. I knew it wouldn't cause problems= for OSPF because OSPF never uses it as an IPv4 DA.
=
The key point is that RIDs look like IPv4 addre= sses, but are not. They only have adopted the formatting convention of IPv4= addresses. They're 32 bit quantities. They could have just as easily b= een formatted as 0x hex strings e.g. 0xffffffff for my example. Their conti= nued use as 32 bit quantities and identifiers in IPv6 supporting OSPFv3 sho= ws how decoupled from both IPv4 and IPv6 they are.
<= br>
SIDs on the other hand are at some point in time= used as IPv6 destination addresses. That means they have to either always = comply with IPv6 address requirements - RFC4291 - or be converted to meet I= Pv6 address requirements when they're used as IPv6 addresses (e.g. they= 're 64 bit quantities that are then used as an IPv6 Interface Identifie= r by prepending an IPv6 addressing compliant /64 prefix)



So to your first question ... I think we agreed in the other mail fro= m which spaces the IPv6 locator can be used. Of course as things evolve mak= ing any assumption that such binding is going to stay intact would be rathe= r weak advice to any hardware designer.=C2=A0

To y= our second=C2=A0point I think SID itself when mapped to interface can be a = src. I see really nothing which could prevent me to use any address as src = or dst in my network.=C2=A0

I am actually not sure= where are you going with those if you will "restrictions" as to = the SID semantical components. To me SID is a locally significant value in = the network (including overlay network) which chooses to use SRv6 and I rea= lly see no reason to constrain it in any additional way.=C2=A0
Perhaps your point is that SID does not fit to RFC4291 IPv6 Ad= dressing Architecture. Well perhaps but if so RFC8402 should be listed in 4= 291 as updating it - just like=C2=A05952, 6052, 7136, 7346, 7371, 8064 all = do. Frankly I am not sure why it is not there now in the first place.=C2=A0=

Kind regards,
Robert.


On = Fri, Dec 27, 2019 at 4:21 PM Ron Bonica <rbonica@juniper.net= > wrote:

Robert,

=C2=A0

Personally, I agree with what you say below. =E2=80= =9CA SID is NOT an IPv6 address.=E2=80=9D

=C2=A0

However, Section 2 of RFC 8402 says that we are both= wrong. It defines an SRv6 SID as follows:

=C2=A0

=E2=80=9CSRv6 SID: an IPv6 address explicitly associated with the segmen= t.=E2=80=9D

=C2=A0

So, assuming that a SID is an IPv6 address, we must = figure out how it fits into the IPv6 addressing architecture. Questions lik= e the following must be answered:

=C2=A0

  • From which special purpose prefixes [RFC 6890= ] =C2=A0can SIDs be drawn?
  • = Can a SID appear in the source address field of an IPv6 packet?

=C2=A0

So far, the co-authors have avoided such issues.<= /u>

=C2=A0

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Ron

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

From: Robert Raszuk <robert@rasz= uk.net>
Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2019 6:43 PM
To: Ron Bonica <rbonica@juniper.net>
Cc: Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston@liquidte= lecom.com>; Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.pe= trescu@gmail.com>; SPRING WG <spring@ietf.org>; Gy= an Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail..com>; Pablo Camarillo= (pcamaril) <pcamaril@cisco.com>; Mark Smith <markzzzsmith@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [spring] 64-bit locators

=C2=A0

Hey Ron,

=C2=A0

> Leaving both chickens and eggs in the hen house= =E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6..=C2=A0=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Indeed ... after all it is not Easter Time !=C2=A0

=C2=A0

> Only one answer can be correct=C2=A0=F0=9F=98=89= =C2=A0=C2=A0

=C2=A0

To me this is very obvious ...=C2=A0

=C2=A0

SID is NOT an IPv6 address. Part of the SID is a loc= ator which is used for vanilla IPv6 forwarding (based on IPv6 routing prefi= xes), but that is all this 128 bit string has in common with IPv6.=C2=A0=

=C2=A0

Merry SID-less Christmas,
R.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

On Sat, Dec 21, 2019 at 9:32 PM Ron Bonica <rbonica@juniper.net> wrote:

Robert,

=C2=A0

Leaving both chickens and eggs in the hen house=E2= =80=A6=E2=80=A6..

=C2=A0

We have never explicitly stated whether a SID *is= * and IPv6 address or *merely resembles* an IPv6 address. Which = is it?

=C2=A0

Hint: This is a multiple choice question. Only one a= nswer can be correct =F0=9F=98= =89

=C2=A0

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Happy Holidays,

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Ro= n

=C2=A0

_______________________________________________
spring mailing list
spring@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listi= nfo/spring
--000000000000d4ab18059ab6d9ed-- From nobody Fri Dec 27 14:45:06 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90BDA1200DB for ; Fri, 27 Dec 2019 14:45:03 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=raszuk.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cK_jmZRd2Vhw for ; Fri, 27 Dec 2019 14:45:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qt1-x834.google.com (mail-qt1-x834.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::834]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2F4701200CE for ; Fri, 27 Dec 2019 14:45:01 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qt1-x834.google.com with SMTP id q20so25519571qtp.3 for ; Fri, 27 Dec 2019 14:45:01 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=raszuk.net; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=aVAerLZv7UMoRlBGhfRJrpWeGoJP1aZxlbYrPC6vkYk=; b=MHby4IonyxKwBAkvOaVkcGzsiG9U82ccb7Lu9mdYa/r6FSMNQQpGixn1L9NWU4bX2K mqxiY5G4iAdUPtyWeoQ2ApZA7RpIdwcsMxY8xFaJsN2Sopl709TgpkpSihQn3Q4OvpXS KruXX7y7e5mprtk9wFBuKk06AT8rRRbhx2sTOGKk44SB77M9Ypc5LMIwTa0wAEWeMcg0 i9d2TWE86IteHSKjDlVqsy4GGXAPPHvcq31qLAw9Kz+PE4rRcsztC5O2xE5QYJO1wbNW sk+dAjd307yQmnuroPl5l0hNfaPIem0oUdeQn+RkaiPInpwRpwrB9wHcurcoBWvuP0nT 4l6g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=aVAerLZv7UMoRlBGhfRJrpWeGoJP1aZxlbYrPC6vkYk=; b=YwtNo1THGX0kBPbOyVFNcRm6U3siB/MQJ9kUGb7D8kB3hP/YM6HuXT8ujgTKAP7mtT gaKbIt6tLz/q0v+XNeHLkXXbun3vtoAwyBhppfkh96MuqrKmA96wXwtQE+QUs3fJ5LZX WeMq/ouw8FYINdnPEZt0KsOBZ4HAuRn5qYsTpjTSnPTQq2r0oBI0NN6NQcgaTVygYfLk 6mp3XSoBC3C382lFoElfrTzbRAllKJIyiDL+bU0Yhwx6TICeXYCJl47kRBzt/ClOC+LZ 94p7iFs7MxGazIa17l5zKHu5r57aDzygKf9ONoCGwci6bxvadMMykgzZbvllzg9FJKhL BOmQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUEsVAv6cigAdYYuoNxrGR/QejQOOk2LfumZzEa1Ne1CdZCjdkm p1Kko0vi5XMfajOBoTHYbovNJHOQdvw9rFoU6lYuqg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqym4zAA95A3lnjen6K+z4mYIYkV3WnHMJc+F9pW+XDNWcximtSDOMFpj/MrUu77DRFUNzpbMFAmS+A8+fYCsDQ= X-Received: by 2002:ac8:a8b:: with SMTP id d11mr38715954qti.94.1577486700213; Fri, 27 Dec 2019 14:45:00 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <8f5607c9-645a-ea88-e2a7-a4bed8206fc8@gmail.com> <63F5AA66-AEF8-4278-B98C-D3C53AC5A60A@cisco.com> <069e6021-537c-422a-37da-f090a6ac334b@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: From: Robert Raszuk Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2019 23:44:54 +0100 Message-ID: To: Mark Smith Cc: Ron Bonica , SPRING WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000678c52059ab73e4f" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] 64-bit locators X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2019 22:45:03 -0000 --000000000000678c52059ab73e4f Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Mark, Happy New Year ! > The key point is that RIDs look like IPv4 addresses, but are not. They > only have adopted the formatting convention of IPv4 addresses. They're 32 > bit quantities. They could have just as easily been formatted as 0x hex > strings e.g. 0xffffffff for my example. Their continued use as 32 bit > quantities and identifiers in IPv6 supporting OSPFv3 shows how decoupled > from both IPv4 and IPv6 they are. > We are again in 100% agreement here. That was exactly my analogy to RID made to Ron. But on the other hand let's also recognize that this is pretty common to assign router_id to be yr loopback address in number of protocols. > SIDs on the other hand are at some point in time used as IPv6 destination > addresses. > Well SID locators (of variable length) need to assure packet delivery to a segment end points. That is a subtle but very important difference. > That means they have to either always comply with IPv6 address > requirements - RFC4291 - or be converted to meet IPv6 address requirements > when they're used as IPv6 addresses (e.g. they're 64 bit quantities that > are then used as an IPv6 Interface Identifier by prepending an IPv6 > addressing compliant /64 prefix) > IPv6 address fields are 128 bits (for good or for bad of it). And there are no :: or : there to the point Alex made earlier. What matters is to make sure that routing prefixes deliver packets to correct destinations. I am very puzzled reading those messages what is the point regarding all remaining bits outside of locator ? If this is to say RFC4291 did not defined a SID - sure you won - game over. But at the same time I do not see anything in RFC4291 which would prohibit me to put any bit sequence I like in the remaining (least significant) bits of the address. And I think this is the crux of the little discussion here. Cheers, R. --000000000000678c52059ab73e4f Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Mark,

Happy=C2=A0New=C2=A0Year !=C2=A0
=C2=A0
T= he key point is that RIDs look like IPv4 addresses, but are not. They only = have adopted the formatting convention of IPv4 addresses. They're 32 bi= t quantities. They could have just as easily been formatted as 0x hex strin= gs e.g. 0xffffffff for my example. Their continued use as 32 bit quantities= and identifiers in IPv6 supporting OSPFv3 shows how decoupled from both IP= v4 and IPv6 they are.

We ar= e again in 100% agreement here. That was exactly=C2=A0my analogy to RID mad= e to Ron. But on the=C2=A0other hand let's also recognize that this is = pretty common to assign router_id to be yr loopback address in number of pr= otocols.=C2=A0
=C2=A0
SIDs on the other hand are at some point in time used as IPv6 destination = addresses.

Well SID locators (= of variable length) need to assure packet delivery to a segment end points.= That is a subtle but very important difference.=C2=A0
=C2=A0
=
<= div dir=3D"auto">That means they have to either always comply with IPv6 add= ress requirements - RFC4291 - or be converted to meet IPv6 address requirem= ents when they're used as IPv6 addresses (e.g. they're 64 bit quant= ities that are then used as an IPv6 Interface Identifier by prepending an I= Pv6 addressing compliant /64 prefix)

IPv6 address fields are 128 bits (for good or for bad of it). And the= re are no :: or : there to the point Alex made earlier. What matters is to = make sure that routing prefixes deliver packets to correct destinations.=C2= =A0

I am very puzzled reading those messages what = is the point regarding all remaining bits outside of locator ? If this is t= o say RFC4291 did not defined a SID - sure you won - game over. But at the = same time I do not see anything in RFC4291 which would prohibit me to put a= ny bit sequence I like in the remaining (least significant) bits of the add= ress. And I think this is the crux of the little discussion here.=C2=A0

Cheers,
R.



=C2=A0
--000000000000678c52059ab73e4f-- From nobody Fri Dec 27 15:41:48 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE7AD12013B for ; Fri, 27 Dec 2019 15:41:46 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id i7AGmp0HS482 for ; Fri, 27 Dec 2019 15:41:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-io1-xd32.google.com (mail-io1-xd32.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d32]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BAEF01200CE for ; Fri, 27 Dec 2019 15:41:43 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-io1-xd32.google.com with SMTP id v18so27002843iol.2 for ; Fri, 27 Dec 2019 15:41:43 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=W7o35iWQkaiB0Gr0zgqZbhhV8cfBdbuaJlgXtTyrjig=; b=oy1Uf4QsQ1u2C32zIBvekmbjFSz7S40T5bXNDpoCc0VuFu+n5Ag/HwYrIpE8SVH/jx ibCZrztuezN8hZG7GrjrctAZvJ/IZ4TnyNlwexhUEcUSyTeFNBiACBSswN5OuIt0wUEn tpoB1IGN9tVz+vQLRec3l2FTIHi6PuLj80pxobsppq6OerVgxFZwAaftwPq1OGq5UFyH 7SZmCCOyEFEaan3byZSZuQN8CJSsUkh6gWzzLFskqb2xIK/4fKTAoEtmxIIgB4AOpNLV 6jZxh0hHwEtiEtKEWeNFqYbm8OB6BHmgvu3/5zshBreq7m81TcAWTzhlyMxJzrL5lyvE SNnA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=W7o35iWQkaiB0Gr0zgqZbhhV8cfBdbuaJlgXtTyrjig=; b=HtAzHo9EZrcnHe1IJVS2yL3PRUaScLLbooBiKGXxYtlj8WtfV1LgwGY/txg28ltRHq mVsDUamSIaYL80WJTPONzTYSvwJMk4ogkgJ9idA4e9U3ReQjSsbAunLJ/QTNc4LFfOwj WJNjDnowraQA/cdDnz4TPgi8muNwxV3sCzfYPjIc1pzyEJ2aue5DRSW49fMYVSeT0h36 b9RrExfw00B1LopD85wvJKjMuQk3hcwHYzCjuBumE6DU0K1dkjQlQ8pseO2um4WIxO+n qznB6HgLQur4ejLBsMPK75gG51/FgYF3WD+KWPofPzaWB1XROdz/Pig2YHchN07+driz 4jTA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXI0JaJO4mJs14Re7dbTbXPX2fRWGJoagFdQzAf3bGAvqI4J3By vwWS9tL/LCQw+MCHNr3Gs8KwIoIS+JNNyaYUmg8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwlJLaM5xNYgK9dDia1iYp9qOOxgTy68K44B9UdIZp2TF9WSytmHdGhDSh2sG+y+qOOYIoSlgg2z3NtN0kcJcA= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6638:76c:: with SMTP id y12mr43799776jad.95.1577490102809; Fri, 27 Dec 2019 15:41:42 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <8f5607c9-645a-ea88-e2a7-a4bed8206fc8@gmail.com> <63F5AA66-AEF8-4278-B98C-D3C53AC5A60A@cisco.com> <069e6021-537c-422a-37da-f090a6ac334b@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: From: Gyan Mishra Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2019 18:41:31 -0500 Message-ID: To: Robert Raszuk Cc: Mark Smith , Ron Bonica , SPRING WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000036f9a6059ab8094e" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] 64-bit locators X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2019 23:41:47 -0000 --00000000000036f9a6059ab8094e Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Dec 27, 2019 at 5:45 PM Robert Raszuk wrote: > Hi Mark, > > Happy New Year ! > > >> The key point is that RIDs look like IPv4 addresses, but are not. They >> only have adopted the formatting convention of IPv4 addresses. They're 3= 2 >> bit quantities. They could have just as easily been formatted as 0x hex >> strings e.g. 0xffffffff for my example. Their continued use as 32 bit >> quantities and identifiers in IPv6 supporting OSPFv3 shows how decoupled >> from both IPv4 and IPv6 they are. >> > > We are again in 100% agreement here. That was exactly my analogy to RID > made to Ron. But on the other hand let's also recognize that this is pret= ty > common to assign router_id to be yr loopback address in number of > protocols. > > >> SIDs on the other hand are at some point in time used as IPv6 destinatio= n >> addresses. >> > > Well SID locators (of variable length) need to assure packet delivery to = a > segment end points. That is a subtle but very important difference. > > >> That means they have to either always comply with IPv6 address >> requirements - RFC4291 - or be converted to meet IPv6 address requiremen= ts >> when they're used as IPv6 addresses (e.g. they're 64 bit quantities that >> are then used as an IPv6 Interface Identifier by prepending an IPv6 >> addressing compliant /64 prefix) >> > > IPv6 address fields are 128 bits (for good or for bad of it). And there > are no :: or : there to the point Alex made earlier. What matters is to > make sure that routing prefixes deliver packets to correct destinations. > > I am very puzzled reading those messages what is the point regarding all > remaining bits outside of locator ? If this is to say RFC4291 did not > defined a SID - sure you won - game over. But at the same time I do not s= ee > anything in RFC4291 which would prohibit me to put any bit sequence I lik= e > in the remaining (least significant) bits of the address. And I think thi= s > is the crux of the little discussion here. > > Cheers, > R. > > [Gyan] The router-id scenario is a good one to compare to this SID addres= s > format scenario. How this scenario differs which is the crux is the > router-id is not required to be routable, where the SID locator must be > routable for traffic steering ; copying SID locator into the DA. > If the SID locator was not copied into the DA, and was not required to be > routable, it could have an abstract notation =E2=80=9Cnon IPv6 hextet=E2= =80=9D format. > However, the fact that the SID locator, locally significant on each SRv6 > node for hop by hop traffic steering ; the SID has to be reachable via I= GP > within the SR domain. The SID locator is in fact is an IPv6 address > which I think cannot be disputed. > So now any formatting of the SID however that maybe for {locator;func;arg} must be updated in RFC 4291 to start and all other related RFCs that define the IPv6 formatting. As far as our current IPv6 addressing standards SLAAC defines a strict /64 bit boundary where DHCPv6 and manual IPv6 assignment does not have the /64 boundary and support VLSM. So at the beginning of this discussion was mentioned keeping the 3 SID fields fixed or variable. So since there are 3 fields and not 2 fields, the SID format does not fall in the current IPv6 addressing architecture made up of 2 fields for slaac 64 bit boundary or no discrete fields for vlsm. There are protocols that use the bits within the IID for IPv4/IPv6 translators RFC 6144 used for NAT64 for example. This case with SRv6 the major issue is that with the 3 fields it does not fall in any currently defined addressing formats. That=E2=80=99s the issue. SRv6 is the first protocol where there are 3 fields defined that requires an IPv6 address notation. I think what is really need is the explicit definition of bits for each of the 3 fields and update all IPv6 addressing specs starting with RFC 4291. > > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > --=20 Gyan S. Mishra IT Network Engineering & Technology Verizon Communications Inc. (VZ) 13101 Columbia Pike FDC1 3rd Floor Silver Spring, MD 20904 United States Phone: 301 502-1347 Email: gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies-consultant --00000000000036f9a6059ab8094e Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Fri, Dec 27, 2019 at 5:45 PM Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> wrote:
Hi Mark,

Happy=C2=A0New=C2=A0Year !=C2=A0
<= div>=C2=A0
The key point is that RIDs look like IPv4 addre= sses, but are not. They only have adopted the formatting convention of IPv4= addresses. They're 32 bit quantities. They could have just as easily b= een formatted as 0x hex strings e.g. 0xffffffff for my example. Their conti= nued use as 32 bit quantities and identifiers in IPv6 supporting OSPFv3 sho= ws how decoupled from both IPv4 and IPv6 they are.

We are again in 100% agreement here. That was exact= ly=C2=A0my analogy to RID made to Ron. But on the=C2=A0other hand let's= also recognize that this is pretty common to assign router_id to be yr loo= pback address in number of protocols.=C2=A0
=C2=A0
SIDs on the other hand are at some point in t= ime used as IPv6 destination addresses.

<= /div>
Well SID locators (of variable length) need to assure packet deli= very to a segment end points. That is a subtle but very important differenc= e.=C2=A0
=C2=A0
That means they have to eith= er always comply with IPv6 address requirements - RFC4291 - or be converted= to meet IPv6 address requirements when they're used as IPv6 addresses = (e.g. they're 64 bit quantities that are then used as an IPv6 Interface= Identifier by prepending an IPv6 addressing compliant /64 prefix)

IPv6 address fields are 128 bits (for g= ood or for bad of it). And there are no :: or : there to the point Alex mad= e earlier. What matters is to make sure that routing prefixes deliver packe= ts to correct destinations.=C2=A0

I am very puzzle= d reading those messages what is the point regarding all remaining bits out= side of locator ? If this is to say RFC4291 did not defined a SID - sure yo= u won - game over. But at the same time I do not see anything in RFC4291 wh= ich would prohibit me to put any bit sequence I like in the remaining (leas= t significant) bits of the address. And I think this is the crux of the lit= tle discussion here.=C2=A0

Cheers,
R.

[Gyan] The router-id scenario is a good one to compa= re to this SID address format scenario. How =C2=A0 this scenario differs wh= ich is the crux is the router-id is not required to be routable, where the = SID locator must be routable for traffic steering ; copying SID locator int= o the DA.

I= f the SID locator was not copied into the DA, and was not required to be ro= utable, =C2=A0it could have an abstract notation =E2=80=9Cnon IPv6 hextet= =E2=80=9D format.=C2=A0 However, the fact that the SID locator, locally sig= nificant on each SRv6 node for hop by hop traffic steering ; =C2=A0the SID = has to be reachable via IGP within the SR domain.=C2=A0 The =C2=A0SID locat= or =C2=A0is in fact is an IPv6 address which I think cannot be disputed.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 So now any formatting of the SID however that m= aybe for {locator;func;arg} must be updated in RFC 4291 to start and all ot= her related RFCs that define the IPv6 formatting.=C2=A0 As far as our curre= nt IPv6 addressing standards SLAAC defines a strict /64 bit boundary where = DHCPv6 and manual IPv6 assignment does not have the /64 boundary and suppor= t VLSM. =C2=A0

So at the= beginning of this discussion was mentioned keeping the 3 SID fields fixed = or variable. =C2=A0

So s= ince there are 3 fields and not 2 fields, the SID format =C2=A0does not fal= l in the current IPv6 addressing architecture made up of 2 fields for slaac= 64 bit boundary or no discrete fields for vlsm.=C2=A0 There are protocols = that use the bits within the IID for IPv4/IPv6 translators RFC 6144 used fo= r NAT64 for example.=C2=A0 This case with SRv6 the major issue is that with= the 3 fields it does not fall in any currently defined addressing formats.= =C2=A0 That=E2=80=99s the issue.

SRv6 is the first protocol where there are 3 fields defined that = requires an IPv6 address notation.

I think what is really need is the explicit definition of bits f= or each of the 3 fields and update all IPv6 addressing =C2=A0specs starting= with RFC 4291.



=C2=A0=
_______________________________________________
spring mailing list
spring@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
--
<= div dir=3D"ltr">

Gyan S. Mishra

IT Networ= k Engineering & Technology=C2=A0=

Verizon Communications=C2=A0Inc. (VZ)=

13101 Columbia Pike FDC1 3rd Floor

=

Silver Spring, MD 20904

United States<= span style=3D"color:rgb(80,0,80);background-image:initial;background-positi= on:initial;background-repeat:initial">

Phone:=C2=A0301 502-1347

Email:=C2=A0gyan.s.mishra@verizon.= com

www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies-co= nsultant


--00000000000036f9a6059ab8094e-- From nobody Fri Dec 27 16:56:51 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFAD7120137 for ; Fri, 27 Dec 2019 16:56:50 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.498 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.498 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, FROM_LOCAL_NOVOWEL=0.5, HK_RANDOM_ENVFROM=0.001, HK_RANDOM_FROM=0.999, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7Z5Kxc6qvYIv for ; Fri, 27 Dec 2019 16:56:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ot1-x32e.google.com (mail-ot1-x32e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::32e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C0D611200E5 for ; Fri, 27 Dec 2019 16:56:46 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ot1-x32e.google.com with SMTP id k16so33712013otb.2 for ; Fri, 27 Dec 2019 16:56:46 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=UUVBiB10scmjCbJp4mvA70FTBbwTJehBN0Fyb05FXeM=; b=LJCrGWiyWUfU6EiKFSK42X6FcWlM4qj3FioQGn59Ro1q2mOzX3NE+VWUC4udtgC2xv 6pLqUoQtlxtrXbsuTm3dPeQuGm2XU5z+T65TJVkIS85w6pyLQL8DNbWDLGS+A5+9XBh1 GCJw9iv9S6sm/PqE/jGk5iyVlZwWOj8PhNhVlbjmIOlbCkqzpKVIEHhPedhviufduWCN yfePRhLACCzNpuHtbVsKeex73P9tF3+VdPaihy+hcrYk9SoexJRueVgDsngH9cXSV3XX sE4Z0cST5q8eQT6VyetWTQpuq4ybZviCAXcao7tTLM7PGTa0DqBHoXK+sCjogZXwA8WS p2NQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=UUVBiB10scmjCbJp4mvA70FTBbwTJehBN0Fyb05FXeM=; b=gjcUdlqNLmZWPxLKxScd94Pxi/RlPFYeIqZfezmJK3pM2DrJUznRWVMT4d6l6YIpic 9UL8/pNRiG3HO6uZ9J7A1PIMDIS1frc1i9TB53cKw8DHg25Y1j5dkfLH7o+e1485YkA3 CbcTNoEy3OLuWqL4gEPnFF2aWdnAabT05Ue2x3i4Z4Ofe6I4U4F+5C9URJ+mQnW1n8ED Ja3dS+oLGVTYks61XAt1n9OE52kJfnewY9UxijhrHK5WA5wAFMnlPeTi27WQiYFBsKgp fclyIejck5cwXyARj2R0v788jSssVS/meOGvJsgfq7gaNiWaczexYRBndMEYXyFdvT2x bveA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXLdYidjFLOYZ1Es57dRFDgsQBCTV3pNoNUPWgWQd97ad0K4t93 PQRdt7szLnmUPT0A8ZUrYouJBltig5z4D36EXa8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxb1/3eFrx+Qam8ey4Sz2/xEe53TiYAJGi/omjN4KYEaGHzCB+j83Vm04f1Yr2hU8P8U2ymeZw7shW17f/Dpxk= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6830:151a:: with SMTP id k26mr41850577otp.74.1577494606044; Fri, 27 Dec 2019 16:56:46 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <8f5607c9-645a-ea88-e2a7-a4bed8206fc8@gmail.com> <63F5AA66-AEF8-4278-B98C-D3C53AC5A60A@cisco.com> <069e6021-537c-422a-37da-f090a6ac334b@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: From: Mark Smith Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2019 11:56:19 +1100 Message-ID: To: Robert Raszuk Cc: Ron Bonica , SPRING WG Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] 64-bit locators X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2019 00:56:51 -0000 On Sat, 28 Dec 2019 at 09:45, Robert Raszuk wrote: > > Hi Mark, > > Happy New Year ! > >> >> The key point is that RIDs look like IPv4 addresses, but are not. They o= nly have adopted the formatting convention of IPv4 addresses. They're 32 bi= t quantities. They could have just as easily been formatted as 0x hex strin= gs e.g. 0xffffffff for my example. Their continued use as 32 bit quantities= and identifiers in IPv6 supporting OSPFv3 shows how decoupled from both IP= v4 and IPv6 they are. > > > We are again in 100% agreement here. That was exactly my analogy to RID m= ade to Ron. But on the other hand let's also recognize that this is pretty = common to assign router_id to be yr loopback address in number of protocols= . > Right. I've done that. However, it is a convention, nothing more. In OSPF and BGP the RID is not an IPv4 address even if it looks like one, and is never used as an IPv4 address. SIDs are used as IPv6 addresses. When SIDs are used as IPv6 addresses, they must be compliant with the IPv6 specifications. >> >> SIDs on the other hand are at some point in time used as IPv6 destinatio= n addresses. > > > Well SID locators (of variable length) need to assure packet delivery to = a segment end points. That is a subtle but very important difference. > >> >> That means they have to either always comply with IPv6 address requireme= nts - RFC4291 - or be converted to meet IPv6 address requirements when they= 're used as IPv6 addresses (e.g. they're 64 bit quantities that are then us= ed as an IPv6 Interface Identifier by prepending an IPv6 addressing complia= nt /64 prefix) > > > IPv6 address fields are 128 bits (for good or for bad of it). >And there are no :: or : there to the point Alex made earlier. What matter= s is to make sure that routing prefixes deliver packets to correct destinat= ions. > > I am very puzzled reading those messages what is the point regarding all = remaining bits outside of locator ? If this is to say RFC4291 did not defin= ed a SID - sure you won - game over. But at the same time I do not see anyt= hing in RFC4291 which would prohibit me to put any bit sequence I like in t= he remaining (least significant) bits of the address. If you limit yourself to the Interface Identifier portion of the IPv6 address, you can encode other semantics in that portion that are significant to the end points. That is permitted by RFC 7136, "Significance of IPv6 Interface Identifiers:" "In all cases, the bits in an IID have no generic semantics; in other words, they have opaque values. In fact, the whole IID value MUST be viewed as an opaque bit string by third parties, except possibly in the local context." While the packet is being forwarded towards an end point, those end-point semantics are to be ignored, because IPv6 forwarding is longest match across all 128 bits: BCP 198/RFC 7608, "IPv6 Prefix Length Recommendation for Forwarding" Regards, Mark. >And I think this is the crux of the little discussion here. > > Cheers, > R. > > > > From nobody Fri Dec 27 17:18:40 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C9D51200E5 for ; Fri, 27 Dec 2019 17:18:39 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.997 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.997 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id D_6wWVpwa6NC for ; Fri, 27 Dec 2019 17:18:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-il1-x12b.google.com (mail-il1-x12b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::12b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A6D341200A1 for ; Fri, 27 Dec 2019 17:18:36 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-il1-x12b.google.com with SMTP id v69so23574362ili.10 for ; Fri, 27 Dec 2019 17:18:36 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=PTUE1COZEZTdCc4v+k59D6feyVkA46shwYG/kHCVz9A=; b=vO2vtvsL5gQHNn4ZGDSoKYJJ5jyhdx0pGplrMEmcQ5Y98Hky6hW7WyK/nciKU9oWaX DGsbx042zQ5z0uFtX1XADpwO4MkeZQ+aINxOIEspgO8gDGKVEsSipQI5Rr2zstchNLWp mox42ZkmHGmH89VZWKi5NNZ/4UFKLgHY1qnTj8tQrz3PBLddl5S3S4ugQ0JBLdi1TL2b LgSG7u8QFTNbqXBucu2Hz2c45lElJ2bf3tuWjHN1qXQlX35fZvctXlvQwZIEaHBFT+Gb M4qQubL6520J8/IdKb60JZetb60chYUMWWL7NWrCMv3qO2bcN0XdkFzGFkx0LqADsrEk QlkA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=PTUE1COZEZTdCc4v+k59D6feyVkA46shwYG/kHCVz9A=; b=RsWn7lzfTtzih9J5W2PQzQgD3GePzdCxcYPY4P8Tie+kbfasengOHAJ/zzmZgT1/p8 3BTpqeMqDJbsQgEvOzJxda+SAFIZaJWT7T8aApDgsESQpuGJP95oa00A15vG7vlh8F55 Oc4N1pHugs18jXJeltL2EVK5gfjUcpsyAH28noK+TH3+fdrHyiAkDj06tDlsW/uOGhWz jepkUOv+2Fanq2bsOAexzXD0B5fXbJbXz9esDCrU1+S15o+yHGZuqt9HGODvGz3td0TT zbGJ0zZdWiib78KarDvO+UPqgu/zV6TgFopAy19FWJap9G1E8qQQx7DyjvoSMIb0rUfC J5kg== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWsM0dAm3AfDWJ3MOUVroTFWojkT8N1GgENk/mpp6gf+JLswZ8O ibNki6pnOTLilF+JCXkYjjayR6wfzmavqHBmmBU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqw1ADt681skTQJfBQ48OuU5TAoCv5ffeUXKzjXr3rQbXXhz/dzht1qbzUghzHODEPE2BaJzWF5dkxioi9xAMMI= X-Received: by 2002:a92:1547:: with SMTP id v68mr44825495ilk.58.1577495915794; Fri, 27 Dec 2019 17:18:35 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <8f5607c9-645a-ea88-e2a7-a4bed8206fc8@gmail.com> <63F5AA66-AEF8-4278-B98C-D3C53AC5A60A@cisco.com> <069e6021-537c-422a-37da-f090a6ac334b@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: From: Gyan Mishra Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2019 20:18:25 -0500 Message-ID: To: Mark Smith Cc: Robert Raszuk , Ron Bonica , SPRING WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000b217cd059ab96352" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] 64-bit locators X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2019 01:18:39 -0000 --000000000000b217cd059ab96352 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Fri, Dec 27, 2019 at 7:56 PM Mark Smith wrote: > On Sat, 28 Dec 2019 at 09:45, Robert Raszuk wrote: > > > > Hi Mark, > > > > Happy New Year ! > > > >> > >> The key point is that RIDs look like IPv4 addresses, but are not. They > only have adopted the formatting convention of IPv4 addresses. They're 32 > bit quantities. They could have just as easily been formatted as 0x hex > strings e.g. 0xffffffff for my example. Their continued use as 32 bit > quantities and identifiers in IPv6 supporting OSPFv3 shows how decoupled > from both IPv4 and IPv6 they are. > > > > > > We are again in 100% agreement here. That was exactly my analogy to RID > made to Ron. But on the other hand let's also recognize that this is pretty > common to assign router_id to be yr loopback address in number of protocols. > > > > > Right. I've done that. However, it is a convention, nothing more. In > OSPF and BGP the RID is not an IPv4 address even if it looks like one, > and is never used as an IPv4 address. > > SIDs are used as IPv6 addresses. When SIDs are used as IPv6 addresses, > they must be compliant with the IPv6 specifications. > > > >> > >> SIDs on the other hand are at some point in time used as IPv6 > destination addresses. > > > > > > Well SID locators (of variable length) need to assure packet delivery to > a segment end points. That is a subtle but very important difference. > > > >> > >> That means they have to either always comply with IPv6 address > requirements - RFC4291 - or be converted to meet IPv6 address requirements > when they're used as IPv6 addresses (e.g. they're 64 bit quantities that > are then used as an IPv6 Interface Identifier by prepending an IPv6 > addressing compliant /64 prefix) > > > > > > IPv6 address fields are 128 bits (for good or for bad of it). > >And there are no :: or : there to the point Alex made earlier. What > matters is to make sure that routing prefixes deliver packets to correct > destinations. > > > > I am very puzzled reading those messages what is the point regarding all > remaining bits outside of locator ? If this is to say RFC4291 did not > defined a SID - sure you won - game over. But at the same time I do not see > anything in RFC4291 which would prohibit me to put any bit sequence I like > in the remaining (least significant) bits of the address. > > If you limit yourself to the Interface Identifier portion of the IPv6 > address, you can encode other semantics in that portion that are > significant to the end points. That is permitted by RFC 7136, > "Significance of IPv6 Interface Identifiers:" > > "In all cases, the bits in an IID have no generic semantics; in other > words, they have opaque values. In fact, the whole IID value MUST be > viewed as an opaque bit string by third parties, except possibly in > the local context." > > While the packet is being forwarded towards an end point, those > end-point semantics are to be ignored, because IPv6 forwarding is > longest match across all 128 bits: > > BCP 198/RFC 7608, "IPv6 Prefix Length Recommendation for Forwarding" > [Gyan] The 64 bit IID has historically has been in the context of SLAAC and various encoding mechanisms for privacy for the 64 bit IID. For SRv6 SID prefix, since this would be a manual allocation by the operator, it would fall under manual vlsm IPv6 addressing. The caveat there is the current IPv6 specification does not define the SID IPv6 addressing format for locator;func;arg So I think this new manual IPv6 addressing schema for SID has to be now defined in the IPv6 specification. > > > Regards, > Mark. > > > >And I think this is the crux of the little discussion here. > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > R. > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > -- Gyan S. Mishra IT Network Engineering & Technology Verizon Communications Inc. (VZ) 13101 Columbia Pike FDC1 3rd Floor Silver Spring, MD 20904 United States Phone: 301 502-1347 Email: gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies-consultant --000000000000b217cd059ab96352 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Fri, Dec 27, 2019 at 7:56 PM Mark Smith <markzzzsmith@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sat, 28 Dec 2019 at 09:45, Robert Raszu= k <robert@raszuk.= net> wrote:
>
> Hi Mark,
>
> Happy New Year !
>
>>
>> The key point is that RIDs look like IPv4 addresses, but are not. = They only have adopted the formatting convention of IPv4 addresses. They= 9;re 32 bit quantities. They could have just as easily been formatted as 0x= hex strings e.g. 0xffffffff for my example. Their continued use as 32 bit = quantities and identifiers in IPv6 supporting OSPFv3 shows how decoupled fr= om both IPv4 and IPv6 they are.
>
>
> We are again in 100% agreement here. That was exactly my analogy to RI= D made to Ron. But on the other hand let's also recognize that this is = pretty common to assign router_id to be yr loopback address in number of pr= otocols.
>


Right. I've done that. However, it is a convention, nothing more. In OSPF and BGP the RID is not an IPv4 address even if it looks like one,
and is never used as an IPv4 address.

SIDs are used as IPv6 addresses. When SIDs are used as IPv6 addresses,
they must be compliant with the IPv6 specifications.


>>
>> SIDs on the other hand are at some point in time used as IPv6 dest= ination addresses.
>
>
> Well SID locators (of variable length) need to assure packet delivery = to a segment end points. That is a subtle but very important difference. >
>>
>> That means they have to either always comply with IPv6 address req= uirements - RFC4291 - or be converted to meet IPv6 address requirements whe= n they're used as IPv6 addresses (e.g. they're 64 bit quantities th= at are then used as an IPv6 Interface Identifier by prepending an IPv6 addr= essing compliant /64 prefix)
>
>
> IPv6 address fields are 128 bits (for good or for bad of it).
>And there are no :: or : there to the point Alex made earlier. What mat= ters is to make sure that routing prefixes deliver packets to correct desti= nations.
>
> I am very puzzled reading those messages what is the point regarding a= ll remaining bits outside of locator ? If this is to say RFC4291 did not de= fined a SID - sure you won - game over. But at the same time I do not see a= nything in RFC4291 which would prohibit me to put any bit sequence I like i= n the remaining (least significant) bits of the address.

If you limit yourself to the Interface Identifier portion of the IPv6
address, you can encode other semantics in that portion that are
significant to the end points. That is permitted by RFC 7136,
"Significance of IPv6 Interface Identifiers:"

"In all cases, the bits in an IID have no generic semantics; in other<= br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0words, they have opaque values.=C2=A0 In fact, the whole IID v= alue MUST be
=C2=A0 =C2=A0viewed as an opaque bit string by third parties, except possib= ly in
=C2=A0 =C2=A0the local context."

While the packet is being forwarded towards an end point, those
end-point semantics are to be ignored, because IPv6 forwarding is
longest match across all 128 bits:

BCP 198/RFC 7608, "IPv6 Prefix Length Recommendation for Forwarding&qu= ot;
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0
= =C2=A0 [Gyan] The 64 bit IID has historically has been in the context of SL= AAC and various encoding mechanisms for privacy for the 64 bit IID. =C2=A0<= /div>

For SRv6 SID prefix, =C2= =A0since this would be a manual allocation by the operator, it would fall u= nder manual vlsm IPv6 addressing. The caveat there is the current =C2=A0IPv= 6 specification does not define the SID IPv6 addressing format for locator;= func;arg=C2=A0

So I thin= k this new manual IPv6 addressing schema for SID has to be now defined in t= he IPv6 specification.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0


Regards,
Mark.


>And I think this is the crux of the little discussion here.
>





> Cheers,
> R.
>
>
>
>

_______________________________________________
spring mailing list
spring@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
--
<= div dir=3D"ltr">

Gyan S. Mishra

IT Networ= k Engineering & Technology=C2=A0=

Verizon Communications=C2=A0Inc. (VZ)=

13101 Columbia Pike FDC1 3rd Floor

=

Silver Spring, MD 20904

United States<= span style=3D"color:rgb(80,0,80);background-image:initial;background-positi= on:initial;background-repeat:initial">

Phone:=C2=A0301 502-1347

Email:=C2=A0gyan.s.mishra@verizon.= com

www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies-co= nsultant


--000000000000b217cd059ab96352-- From nobody Sat Dec 28 07:05:00 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC87E1200CD for ; Sat, 28 Dec 2019 07:04:58 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.3 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.3 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=steffann.nl Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id b671pMCo7P19 for ; Sat, 28 Dec 2019 07:04:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.sintact.nl (mail.sintact.nl [83.247.10.6]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9734212001A for ; Sat, 28 Dec 2019 07:04:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.sintact.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FF684B; Sat, 28 Dec 2019 16:04:53 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=steffann.nl; h= x-mailer:references:in-reply-to:date:date:subject:subject :mime-version:content-type:content-type:message-id:from:from :received:received; s=mail; t=1577545489; bh=c9G1gumpMDZuAbG0Abt cIm2CVlwp7fQypxqy5jj84X8=; b=ancql/qhZjSPSTFcDinGjQnlYyrAB+8aOEG eqN9dxcMxkfjHKU+L4sN3QMbTcdO3kaYb/Au+dqYgWe2xra+qbwQaLb+8lDq6fIJ miWn48JwhHsBdRQt4b6k/iX4HhlOKlr45I15Rfn6AEZlQ0oSlVN6BL4a2CacGCa/ ggcQ22e8= X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at mail.sintact.nl Received: from mail.sintact.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.sintact.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id GfRSUsjIVbeX; Sat, 28 Dec 2019 16:04:49 +0100 (CET) Received: from [IPv6:2a02:a213:a300:ce80:20ca:437d:2767:e784] (unknown [IPv6:2a02:a213:a300:ce80:20ca:437d:2767:e784]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mail.sintact.nl (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A3AAC3C; Sat, 28 Dec 2019 16:04:48 +0100 (CET) X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett From: Sander Steffann Message-Id: <0AB65279-2B13-49DC-AEEB-2DF7D0D03E26@steffann.nl> Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_1D48EED8-818F-4A39-9A09-F4E37C692BC9"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha256 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.0 \(3594.4.19\)) Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2019 16:04:41 +0100 In-Reply-To: Cc: Robert Raszuk , Ron Bonica , SPRING WG To: Mark Smith References: <8f5607c9-645a-ea88-e2a7-a4bed8206fc8@gmail.com> <63F5AA66-AEF8-4278-B98C-D3C53AC5A60A@cisco.com> <069e6021-537c-422a-37da-f090a6ac334b@gmail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3594.4.19) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] 64-bit locators X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2019 15:04:59 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_1D48EED8-818F-4A39-9A09-F4E37C692BC9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi Mark, > Right. I've done that. However, it is a convention, nothing more. In > OSPF and BGP the RID is not an IPv4 address even if it looks like one, > and is never used as an IPv4 address. > > SIDs are used as IPv6 addresses. When SIDs are used as IPv6 addresses, > they must be compliant with the IPv6 specifications. This Sander --Apple-Mail=_1D48EED8-818F-4A39-9A09-F4E37C692BC9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEEl13OIanoifT0p8LWWPjdc9pon8sFAl4HbwkACgkQWPjdc9po n8t81g//fL1/CQz2iyKJBnMKsGU+KzN3Qxt+4v2ddBGq6/roIYpt0sT82paO4nmv IyvF1fkUKmrjZmJ1AUjGNxFzZLqVUXD/R9uLOe7C7sQgLAO+hp2hFRpp24Ez7o7Y viQ3fIgFKQYUZN+5Kc2eqdF3nkM8qoVgMy2H/Hz0xjv9YIRXBXfqGTcHFFw/pbjJ x4ZMw8DqyGCCpp9x50aYuQ6oZbYJqp9BIrZDG7Il8WWkYq7xG51DwdYkSijBjdAK +g7tBwHlxwctsHbrCDT5tZ7y2zYxFcvSegP3avbyDdmxqNj2f7TYaPZZwpIjV/zi giogtTS1KdV4aGSd3rIFptGZPHDxb27mBtavdL0wm9ULPJ/CAoQB42K918W5MsuK vFVwa9JcVbc5c2VYy3z8acReXcy0tgbPMDOUxfrj4Hb9iuATuTcOfgrrn/i16MQ9 LVhM7ib7LdJ7sEXf4CNbisFT2Zqshd1PxkrfDHQH0vcIgpEyRLJ3OFE51/3wQnFh d3beVi8ji4RUi+cME23lJVW6jv+/pLaT4GhBf4Mma4rXDpSSeQv49sBqi7NJq8ok iFb9316y6YD6jSjjUkiwKKkQrhoS1kvi7jzWAFGgD78JOJmuy6ml4QGnirnkU6ZZ STIDfiCMSl1YwKFfwCojNKiOOiKCirNpmMOC1r2ODqRdHmLTvpI= =p3Lz -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_1D48EED8-818F-4A39-9A09-F4E37C692BC9-- From nobody Sat Dec 28 08:19:37 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34A36120118 for ; Sat, 28 Dec 2019 08:19:35 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=raszuk.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZIENfEqxcubD for ; Sat, 28 Dec 2019 08:19:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qk1-x735.google.com (mail-qk1-x735.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::735]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 545DE12006E for ; Sat, 28 Dec 2019 08:19:33 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qk1-x735.google.com with SMTP id j9so23972763qkk.1 for ; Sat, 28 Dec 2019 08:19:33 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=raszuk.net; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=G9T7fQkulhUgR2AT4CDehWHDdtjBf6OLS/a5e2Y6z5c=; b=fNZS0mAXBxOL00HQfRej4igHOfLF7XqB70vOifJDO+Gxk5K2A1eekXmPMQA7wn0RGk TYsONBi8yWYEcIpSx3ANCpFuaDTt3u/z8fryg4xdwzZV2ADtnU9FEt+1xFeXt6WlpO4E VJ79GxH8JmRGRWuAW+nMNw4Oi2vkPypBvaYwvxVp/pWiHk3XC4JO/MZvKA0yw5AtJNNs hOwu+wppP4NYava8IfWWERHfyI4Raw7lNO23W4GwE58Cg53O1L2rFu5VX1zCIb8ZL2Eb 1I6hFNNKAbfVGTgB6K1H68BbK/V7ztOhUM7Km7flBKkRJx/q+dOjqRqYJmGfpkJ6eJgT wFow== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=G9T7fQkulhUgR2AT4CDehWHDdtjBf6OLS/a5e2Y6z5c=; b=bKJOtSOqTBCAgnDlaKsAcS2QaFLjWBJ7DMBqdweWySM0VbyeR/affsfEt+YMR/TD0S F1GNSKcIk63itQn7nPQMzLXBg2MaKrCQBvENrJysT3eWTANs1HY7h0IntQLh6qZixc7Z DgQWpBDg3VtjeyZj3jE9PN+fwuCojv5AO9K0qKXbWt0I9JfgJMeVhW77LYlSayLYv2LF IkXjO84JbMVQlXWpvfwc8qfWZd/kA6MLWSbfpLdADMZvfnqOn6LEloHKtxzu3Ngh8LBc xdPTOtTtS6EtzZCQ5V74pOJGzwrw9gtVtIkJNRWR3USpbdbVHLZ/d4ABqzwepBw06oxC 3DJw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAX8X7vy7G5JdRPQq1yenspluKInGQX2oBLF/PooKamMjqyAyitB 4LKmzvd6Mg1drOB+qeWivWd9Tz65QIlUi/fV30DFug== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwf2dn84iBbEAZ2Xq77kaKMLLmwMmoxRNatwtTEAH99TXprf4h/zdoru9grh8nhYDQ4Pb6d6fWxLsB69xxHKbU= X-Received: by 2002:a37:4ac6:: with SMTP id x189mr46804052qka.219.1577549972057; Sat, 28 Dec 2019 08:19:32 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <8f5607c9-645a-ea88-e2a7-a4bed8206fc8@gmail.com> <63F5AA66-AEF8-4278-B98C-D3C53AC5A60A@cisco.com> <069e6021-537c-422a-37da-f090a6ac334b@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: From: Robert Raszuk Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2019 17:19:26 +0100 Message-ID: To: Mark Smith Cc: Ron Bonica , SPRING WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000b34426059ac5f998" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] 64-bit locators X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2019 16:19:35 -0000 --000000000000b34426059ac5f998 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > I am very puzzled reading those messages what is the point regarding all > remaining bits outside of locator ? If this is to say RFC4291 did not > defined a SID - sure you won - game over. But at the same time I do not see > anything in RFC4291 which would prohibit me to put any bit sequence I like > in the remaining (least significant) bits of the address. > > If you limit yourself to the Interface Identifier portion of the IPv6 > address, you can encode other semantics in that portion that are > significant to the end points. That is permitted by RFC 7136, > "Significance of IPv6 Interface Identifiers:" > > "In all cases, the bits in an IID have no generic semantics; in other > words, they have opaque values. In fact, the whole IID value MUST be > viewed as an opaque bit string by third parties, except possibly in > the local context." > > While the packet is being forwarded towards an end point, those > end-point semantics are to be ignored, because IPv6 forwarding is > longest match across all 128 bits: > All correct. And that means that if you consider FUNC:ARGs bits as IIDs there is no conflict at all and current SRv6 SIDs are compliant verbatim with section 2.5.4 of RFC4291. Maybe SRv6 drafts should all make it clear. And yes they are only significant to the destination of the packet too. Just keep in mind that destination is an encapsulation destination == each segment end. Best, R. --000000000000b34426059ac5f998 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

> I am very puzzled readin= g those messages what is the point regarding all remaining bits outside of = locator ? If this is to say RFC4291 did not defined a SID - sure you won - = game over. But at the same time I do not see anything in RFC4291 which woul= d prohibit me to put any bit sequence I like in the remaining (least signif= icant) bits of the address.

If you limit yourself to the Interface Identifier portion of the IPv6
address, you can encode other semantics in that portion that are
significant to the end points. That is permitted by RFC 7136,
"Significance of IPv6 Interface Identifiers:"

"In all cases, the bits in an IID have no generic semantics; in other<= br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0words, they have opaque values.=C2=A0 In fact, the whole IID v= alue MUST be
=C2=A0 =C2=A0viewed as an opaque bit string by third parties, except possib= ly in
=C2=A0 =C2=A0the local context."

While the packet is being forwarded towards an end point, those
end-point semantics are to be ignored, because IPv6 forwarding is
longest match across all 128 bits:

All = correct.=C2=A0

And that means that if you consider= FUNC:ARGs bits as IIDs there is no conflict at all and current SRv6 SIDs a= re compliant=C2=A0verbatim with section 2.5.4 of RFC4291. Maybe SRv6 drafts= should all make it clear.=C2=A0

And yes they are = only significant to the destination of the packet too. Just keep in mind th= at destination is an encapsulation destination =3D=3D each segment end.=C2= =A0

Best,
R.

<= /div> --000000000000b34426059ac5f998-- From nobody Sat Dec 28 21:00:38 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 671D1120086 for ; Sat, 28 Dec 2019 21:00:37 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fmF_NK1qBbHC for ; Sat, 28 Dec 2019 21:00:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-lj1-x22f.google.com (mail-lj1-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::22f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3FDEB120018 for ; Sat, 28 Dec 2019 21:00:35 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-lj1-x22f.google.com with SMTP id j1so23010067lja.2 for ; Sat, 28 Dec 2019 21:00:35 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=ZKmoClkGr107g+iAj99WLsNAth5lLG24lEYcl1LrXDM=; b=FfmmxIiQ4cKc8NOYUUgccWPYWzyc4JJHJxXLq0OCtLu7WOZMZybgSdmzspvtnw5R5a jpX9UD2HdkzBx7InB/NhJsHTPkW1xr0fCxI/IDjVysPMi9USK/02WtL5Axf7SJRc4xXH QvFd8NJGTGMPGd/Fe/4Zuc7vUFyHsMu9eKX4QPNJ9uZ/q1641ELOHVfA1hkkQV5NRgEX rwOZ2JXs90edBMinTf96m9V2E6K2L6SsOWvXrqvwB43DXpvU4qjbXIQoFb7CTSh3S3DO s/AEUOILI/veqWIU6RJMQekDGdFpilJ7sgFYZqoyQshky63jwz+HEIjDEVx4J379iW+b aVSg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=ZKmoClkGr107g+iAj99WLsNAth5lLG24lEYcl1LrXDM=; b=SZPISStCuyVS1OkNoGb/zzF82Vu5Z5N+TJY/3Gb+gAq5H1iYoU+QO8hVY/49TAt252 4MGo9h0SO6iu29LJgK0GgxVtw1pp0S8PnQc/pkUzgqgigs8Izk3dU+eidBkAAcgp1XJY oY7Oz23lEvp5b/Q1kx7uidD8XIAM4NoPZiPeFpUQNUKOv5pFfKUT+v5Ho34rxLTaggqb Xn04FQoWAFlFcY3gCH/Cf/fWT+VCq3SdDwtCcSS/Wfh30df8VHH9jsXSWIv5oQ58qBn+ Y68F2ttBnYpgNXnyOHdbNYiifCr5ZdRzTvVSJN25Za5GVVs1aAZU0ZEhN/94yQ5yklBs ueRQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAV/2lQ2YKZ+CoH5lt3SjB0tEHWSU2rS61NQEpxqqCx8pCWvFfv1 K5ww29rBM/Kl+WQjmeGzxMm/k3jWI4iPIgmA6EY= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyMvxxtQ8/wD0LEsvhOut4qj2FjzkqiaVx7pT69Vn7/TvpNvdVCoxi1fU0UI9EAzX2wd0HfEOkmBVfkhaFjhD8= X-Received: by 2002:a05:651c:2046:: with SMTP id t6mr21193119ljo.180.1577595633525; Sat, 28 Dec 2019 21:00:33 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <8f5607c9-645a-ea88-e2a7-a4bed8206fc8@gmail.com> <63F5AA66-AEF8-4278-B98C-D3C53AC5A60A@cisco.com> <069e6021-537c-422a-37da-f090a6ac334b@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: From: Miya Kohno Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2019 14:00:23 +0900 Message-ID: To: Robert Raszuk Cc: Andrew Alston , Alexandre Petrescu , SPRING WG , Gyan Mishra , "Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)" , Mark Smith Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000055e8c1059ad09bdd" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] 64-bit locators X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2019 05:00:37 -0000 --00000000000055e8c1059ad09bdd Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Also rfc6164 (and rfc6547).. On Sat, Dec 21, 2019 at 12:57 AM Robert Raszuk wrote: > > >> Therefore =E2=80=93 this redefines the address semantics =E2=80=93 and t= hat =E2=80=93 should be >> accompanied by an update to said drafts to avoid confusion and to avoid >> potential future complications >> > > Please observe that we have a lot of IETF documents putting various stuff > into IPv6 128 bits. Take rfc7599 as an easy example. Where do you see > anyone in IETF requested to update IPv6 base specs when any of such > documents were going via standards track ? > > Cheers, > R. > >> _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > --00000000000055e8c1059ad09bdd Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Also rfc6164 (and rfc6547)..
On Sat, D= ec 21, 2019 at 12:57 AM Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> wrote:
=C2= =A0

Therefore =E2=80=93 th= is redefines the address semantics =E2=80=93 and that =E2=80=93 should be a= ccompanied by an update to said drafts to avoid confusion and to avoid pote= ntial future complications


Please observe that we have a lot of IETF documents putting various = stuff into IPv6 128 bits. Take rfc7599 as an easy example. Where do you see= anyone in IETF requested to update IPv6 base specs when any of such docume= nts=C2=A0were going via standards track ?=C2=A0

Ch= eers,
R.
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--00000000000055e8c1059ad09bdd-- From nobody Sat Dec 28 21:10:46 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 858FA12013B for ; Sat, 28 Dec 2019 21:10:45 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sD1wglR3xt7P for ; Sat, 28 Dec 2019 21:10:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-lj1-x22c.google.com (mail-lj1-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::22c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 79905120018 for ; Sat, 28 Dec 2019 21:10:43 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-lj1-x22c.google.com with SMTP id u1so30383250ljk.7 for ; Sat, 28 Dec 2019 21:10:43 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=ghKQ43NUrLPrIuQBYzqaYzHy2/JzWuqAqHtV5XTnSUQ=; b=iz1owKm+xynyMOIW/2f5MIgnVzO7wRyO+Rcw8ScWVxNb5A+5wXG5neu8giFU1td4N1 wmP5xztfA2h0aOf658C8XEuzljlFqIAM1dUG2fIEbJqkXu60B1nFbNDoHIP5bQGv0mwG KbG3GEo7VWd5T3PEaCLE5FP8XGkt0uBb+rQRO7SFrdfDJyQxdchdhKvbAWOw+iyJxdA+ V+NOGKZBl1HCcuDi4Pgr8rcCD6XwWBzGooFbioROb/sTUFAW/wiYX6MUX0j+e8+UrtJz Xp3t6LGZt41IZpyTS+42D3pCsebshs6IkOT+WZYbG+wK+OSRM66tcpReI6AQLZh9TVed 2D1w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=ghKQ43NUrLPrIuQBYzqaYzHy2/JzWuqAqHtV5XTnSUQ=; b=MZA9TUkQwOpaIs7jQJAj4EcvQ/9f92JirAwXOo6ikx8315BJfUFj4C0ohNjs+cRevh T5bDDc9huSLhdNCJvCT01YR809WFkgx+lDAbhXhEHTnpDdOPCHy32Hg/A1w0fR2GgmYv z90jbqsUbQq9MsiQTze++Bsa8lyF7Mzs/RgndxmAgpM1pQt1id9Lxqj1+O/WhBM0r+tX ltJtkmrOCMOxj/uDC7/aDQwa4QSc4zv3LLnb0PONZkbS2xCyccNkl8zYPY4c2CJXK8VK QQlIncesEsO0CGLw9rRRezp8L5f9yAuRwlGrfPpNXA6u94SOV68GjW1NbGkJWEiVUVXd BIMQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXAB+FU3JhCRhcwf9W6gbQZSccRVmxROF7SUViwHwEODd+UxaS2 KH4tiJ5dgo37PyPruzQOQYdoKia5EMn2zcUWgHesrE76m6VIaQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxIYvXWNsAqikWmT4tfgp9R6yKNWVTRmQJvroIJjtzQumx0EymWjBzMXvW4/pwcFhRqK0jLIA0Oinup1BJezlQ= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:9592:: with SMTP id w18mr32566793ljh.98.1577596241838; Sat, 28 Dec 2019 21:10:41 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <8f5607c9-645a-ea88-e2a7-a4bed8206fc8@gmail.com> <63F5AA66-AEF8-4278-B98C-D3C53AC5A60A@cisco.com> <069e6021-537c-422a-37da-f090a6ac334b@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: From: Miya Kohno Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2019 14:10:31 +0900 Message-ID: To: Robert Raszuk Cc: Mark Smith , Ron Bonica , SPRING WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000980821059ad0bfca" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] 64-bit locators X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2019 05:10:45 -0000 --000000000000980821059ad0bfca Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I agree with Robert. Modern language is generous about type ([*] as an example). C also has a concept of "union", though. The stubborn discussion of IPv6 address will hinder creativity and innovation for the future. [*] https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0484/#union-types Miya On Sun, Dec 29, 2019 at 1:19 AM Robert Raszuk wrote: > > > I am very puzzled reading those messages what is the point regarding all >> remaining bits outside of locator ? If this is to say RFC4291 did not >> defined a SID - sure you won - game over. But at the same time I do not see >> anything in RFC4291 which would prohibit me to put any bit sequence I like >> in the remaining (least significant) bits of the address. >> >> If you limit yourself to the Interface Identifier portion of the IPv6 >> address, you can encode other semantics in that portion that are >> significant to the end points. That is permitted by RFC 7136, >> "Significance of IPv6 Interface Identifiers:" >> >> "In all cases, the bits in an IID have no generic semantics; in other >> words, they have opaque values. In fact, the whole IID value MUST be >> viewed as an opaque bit string by third parties, except possibly in >> the local context." >> >> While the packet is being forwarded towards an end point, those >> end-point semantics are to be ignored, because IPv6 forwarding is >> longest match across all 128 bits: >> > > All correct. > > And that means that if you consider FUNC:ARGs bits as IIDs there is no > conflict at all and current SRv6 SIDs are compliant verbatim with section > 2.5.4 of RFC4291. Maybe SRv6 drafts should all make it clear. > > And yes they are only significant to the destination of the packet too. > Just keep in mind that destination is an encapsulation destination == each > segment end. > > Best, > R. > > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > --000000000000980821059ad0bfca Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I agree with Robert.
Modern language i= s generous about type ([*] as an example). C also has a concept of "un= ion", though.

The stubborn discussion of= IPv6 address will hinder creativity and innovation for the future.


On Sun, Dec 29, 2019 at 1:19 AM Robert R= aszuk <robert@raszuk.net> wr= ote:

> I am very puzzled reading those mes= sages what is the point regarding all remaining bits outside of locator ? I= f this is to say RFC4291 did not defined a SID - sure you won - game over. = But at the same time I do not see anything in RFC4291 which would prohibit = me to put any bit sequence I like in the remaining (least significant) bits= of the address.

If you limit yourself to the Interface Identifier portion of the IPv6
address, you can encode other semantics in that portion that are
significant to the end points. That is permitted by RFC 7136,
"Significance of IPv6 Interface Identifiers:"

"In all cases, the bits in an IID have no generic semantics; in other<= br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0words, they have opaque values.=C2=A0 In fact, the whole IID v= alue MUST be
=C2=A0 =C2=A0viewed as an opaque bit string by third parties, except possib= ly in
=C2=A0 =C2=A0the local context."

While the packet is being forwarded towards an end point, those
end-point semantics are to be ignored, because IPv6 forwarding is
longest match across all 128 bits:

All = correct.=C2=A0

And that means that if you consider= FUNC:ARGs bits as IIDs there is no conflict at all and current SRv6 SIDs a= re compliant=C2=A0verbatim with section 2.5.4 of RFC4291. Maybe SRv6 drafts= should all make it clear.=C2=A0

And yes they are = only significant to the destination of the packet too. Just keep in mind th= at destination is an encapsulation destination =3D=3D each segment end.=C2= =A0

Best,
R.

<= /div> _______________________________________________
spring mailing list
spring@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
--000000000000980821059ad0bfca-- From nobody Sat Dec 28 22:14:03 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7AC71201EF for ; Sat, 28 Dec 2019 22:14:01 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.498 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.498 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, FROM_LOCAL_NOVOWEL=0.5, HK_RANDOM_ENVFROM=0.001, HK_RANDOM_FROM=0.999, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hY8iK1tAgo4Z for ; Sat, 28 Dec 2019 22:14:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ot1-x330.google.com (mail-ot1-x330.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::330]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1FBFD120018 for ; Sat, 28 Dec 2019 22:14:00 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ot1-x330.google.com with SMTP id k14so42087112otn.4 for ; Sat, 28 Dec 2019 22:14:00 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=VWqwi4np4Zjvu5MEEoBn5dTwFDPP9t2NnhlUCRXFlqo=; b=K2WJ9d4wdLpI1yf2/ijlaeDVIq2B98dGnFx7IpAVGdAlYmv7I93ACWgt1IP+CHRqYU WIzUbnju4vW6YkdfC8xRd5VtWrtbWvLTyenUjYljyPn440AU+qd/GlhJcC3XPB0JTEmx O/ttHPUpsLRzLoXol2f4QIA0HP/2clr9B4ZUh2oqxuRVaWeq8Rg1090OOMDT3lyzfIg6 rcajyRLIP4ZRhotzqk5McmNzHU6d7hLr6N5Gqd6nAwDGxkaynYJppjnCyMlKLHdPdXRP +8H/gcQ6hO+fEiaC9o/3qLKxgG6EAmuhHv7XKxFVo3rUgXcCDoXyVfdjYVpxyfQ1FFbt nuTg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=VWqwi4np4Zjvu5MEEoBn5dTwFDPP9t2NnhlUCRXFlqo=; b=SlFV+OhShs3PpHRO+25YP8Tw7/0ijTFc6S/bRMgYK0ApG5tWikqrBXuu83vIvF4YfT k6i1y0dRzDOr0zy4mBDfovmxRMZcBeD/KAR47iWDqGHQNQ1DDPILQ+dbSr4DD2yHCC32 z1TO3BRVNOCGSXQO9nhYnGSQku6wWvCXem1z32mKm8H6Gj6Y65m9jTdezaGLeA9X1cTd IvlgZVXErEwZkQ8gvDqGIwCzVGV9w/1tE6zbx0FZYisCvJEysWT9OlapQgLNJU+4TKhF VhofcqvqMXijIxGjkz+NJVYhRStbuzXNOpLrmBncVEcqrvItkrtrb2o0G8r8Kg7Lgi9P g8vQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUBH5hvzsAX73Q7GBrdUsTVYppFxzvMAsm2cHCWa5Xn4iejHqcH 1griTC/CApyi3F9J9x+lp1ATOPichcFF31nc7RU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyAAaNtU0teuVbpPSwfMqG7s21n+AKkQOpN1OfOPW6x0rNnveUfBrSAsql3QSLQfFFFus438W2SW/6w6/WZYWQ= X-Received: by 2002:a9d:6005:: with SMTP id h5mr69395316otj.153.1577600038841; Sat, 28 Dec 2019 22:13:58 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <8f5607c9-645a-ea88-e2a7-a4bed8206fc8@gmail.com> <63F5AA66-AEF8-4278-B98C-D3C53AC5A60A@cisco.com> <069e6021-537c-422a-37da-f090a6ac334b@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: From: Mark Smith Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2019 17:13:46 +1100 Message-ID: To: Miya Kohno Cc: Robert Raszuk , Ron Bonica , SPRING WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000e9b36e059ad1a13c" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] 64-bit locators X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2019 06:14:02 -0000 --000000000000e9b36e059ad1a13c Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Sun, 29 Dec 2019, 16:10 Miya Kohno, wrote: > I agree with Robert. > Modern language is generous about type ([*] as an example). C also has a > concept of "union", though. . > We are talking about network protocols, not programming languages. A union is an internal data representation function to save memory. The access type to that memory is encoded in the source code implicitly. In networking protocols that type information is encoded explicitly in type fields or field definitions themselves. > The stubborn discussion of IPv6 address will hinder creativity and > innovation for the future. > When you have a 24 year old protocol (RFC1883) that is still interoperable with the newest implementations, that has literally been implemented in billions of devices, and where continued interoperability is critical, because it's expected to be the most deployed and used protocol of all in the future, creativity and innovation are naturally hindered. That's the price you have to be willing to pay if you want to use and benefit from a commodity and therefore cheap to use protocol. This is why the SPRING approach in a number of cases doesn't make sense. Use IPv6 because it is commodity; then propose quite radical and non-compliant changes that customise the protocol for SPRING's special cases. Customising a commodity protocol defeats the purpose of using it in the first place - because your customisations decommodify it. You lose the scales of economy, the interoperability with existing implementations and the existing knowledge, history and experience with the commodity protocol. There is room for change in IPv6, but only in certain places, and they have to be compatible with existing implementations. RFC7217 is a recent example of that, as is RFC6437. IPv6 is like at 24 year old house for lease. When you rent it, some rooms can be used for different purposes without too many issues e.g. a lounge as a bedroom, or a bedroom as a study. There's enough flexibility in those rooms that they can be multipurpose (although in some cases a lounge room would not be private enough to be a satisfactory bedroom, and perhaps too central to the house). However you can't make the bathroom a lounge, or the kitchen into a toilet. Those rooms have fixed and strictly defined purposes and infrastructure, making them unsuitable for any other purpose. If you owned the house you could make those changes - at great expense. SPRING is renting IPv6. SPRING doesn't own IPv6. Look for lounge rooms you can make bedrooms, or bedrooms you can make studies. Don't try to covert a bathroom into a lounge or a kitchen into a toilet (EH insertion, PSP, uSID, NH=59 implicit payload ...). > [*] https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0484/#union-types > > Miya > > On Sun, Dec 29, 2019 at 1:19 AM Robert Raszuk wrote: > >> >> > I am very puzzled reading those messages what is the point regarding >>> all remaining bits outside of locator ? If this is to say RFC4291 did not >>> defined a SID - sure you won - game over. But at the same time I do not see >>> anything in RFC4291 which would prohibit me to put any bit sequence I like >>> in the remaining (least significant) bits of the address. >>> >>> If you limit yourself to the Interface Identifier portion of the IPv6 >>> address, you can encode other semantics in that portion that are >>> significant to the end points. That is permitted by RFC 7136, >>> "Significance of IPv6 Interface Identifiers:" >>> >>> "In all cases, the bits in an IID have no generic semantics; in other >>> words, they have opaque values. In fact, the whole IID value MUST be >>> viewed as an opaque bit string by third parties, except possibly in >>> the local context." >>> >>> While the packet is being forwarded towards an end point, those >>> end-point semantics are to be ignored, because IPv6 forwarding is >>> longest match across all 128 bits: >>> >> >> All correct. >> >> And that means that if you consider FUNC:ARGs bits as IIDs there is no >> conflict at all and current SRv6 SIDs are compliant verbatim with section >> 2.5.4 of RFC4291. Maybe SRv6 drafts should all make it clear. >> >> And yes they are only significant to the destination of the packet too. >> Just keep in mind that destination is an encapsulation destination == each >> segment end. >> >> Best, >> R. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> spring mailing list >> spring@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring >> > --000000000000e9b36e059ad1a13c Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Sun, 29 Dec 2019, 16:10 Miya Kohno, <miya.kohno@gmail.com> = wrote:
I agre= e with Robert.
Modern language is generous about type ([*] a= s an example). C also has a concept of "union", though. .

We are talking about network protocols, not programming languages.

A union is an internal data = representation function to save memory. The access type to that memory is e= ncoded in the source code implicitly.

In networking protocols that type information is encoded expl= icitly in type fields or field definitions themselves.


=
The stubborn discussion of IPv6 address will hinder creativi= ty and innovation for the future.

When you have a 24 year=C2=A0old p= rotocol (RFC1883) that is still interoperable with the newest implementatio= ns, that has literally been implemented in billions of devices, and where c= ontinued interoperability is critical, because it's expected to be the = most deployed and used protocol of all in the future, creativity and innova= tion are naturally hindered.

That's the price you have to be willing to pay if you want to use = and benefit from a commodity and therefore cheap to use protocol.

This is why the SPRING approach i= n a number of cases doesn't make sense.
=C2=A0
Use IPv6 because it is commodity; then propose quite = radical and non-compliant changes that customise the protocol for SPRING= 9;s special cases.

Custo= mising a commodity protocol defeats the purpose of using it in the first pl= ace - because your customisations decommodify it.
You lose the scales of economy, the interoperabil= ity with existing implementations and the existing knowledge, history and e= xperience with the commodity protocol.

There is room for change in IPv6, but only in certain places= , and they have to be compatible with existing implementations. RFC7217 is = a recent example of that, as is RFC6437.=C2=A0

<= /div>
IPv6 is like at 24 year old house for lease.

When you rent it, some rooms ca= n be used for different purposes without too many issues e.g. a lounge as a= bedroom, or a bedroom as a study. There's enough flexibility in those = rooms that they can be multipurpose (although in some cases a lounge room w= ould not be private enough to be a satisfactory bedroom, and perhaps too ce= ntral to the house).

How= ever you can't make the bathroom a lounge, or the kitchen into a toilet= . Those rooms have fixed and strictly defined purposes and infrastructure, = making them unsuitable for any other purpose.

If you owned the house you could make those changes -= at great expense.

SPRIN= G is renting IPv6. SPRING doesn't own IPv6. Look for lounge rooms you c= an make bedrooms, or bedrooms you can make studies. Don't try to covert= a bathroom into a lounge or a kitchen into a toilet (EH insertion, PSP, uS= ID, NH=3D59 implicit payload ...).



Miya

On Sun, Dec 29, 2019 at 1:19 AM Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> wrote:
=

> I am very puzzled reading those messages = what is the point regarding all remaining bits outside of locator ? If this= is to say RFC4291 did not defined a SID - sure you won - game over. But at= the same time I do not see anything in RFC4291 which would prohibit me to = put any bit sequence I like in the remaining (least significant) bits of th= e address.

If you limit yourself to the Interface Identifier portion of the IPv6
address, you can encode other semantics in that portion that are
significant to the end points. That is permitted by RFC 7136,
"Significance of IPv6 Interface Identifiers:"

"In all cases, the bits in an IID have no generic semantics; in other<= br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0words, they have opaque values.=C2=A0 In fact, the whole IID v= alue MUST be
=C2=A0 =C2=A0viewed as an opaque bit string by third parties, except possib= ly in
=C2=A0 =C2=A0the local context."

While the packet is being forwarded towards an end point, those
end-point semantics are to be ignored, because IPv6 forwarding is
longest match across all 128 bits:

All = correct.=C2=A0

And that means that if you consider= FUNC:ARGs bits as IIDs there is no conflict at all and current SRv6 SIDs a= re compliant=C2=A0verbatim with section 2.5.4 of RFC4291. Maybe SRv6 drafts= should all make it clear.=C2=A0

And yes they are = only significant to the destination of the packet too. Just keep in mind th= at destination is an encapsulation destination =3D=3D each segment end.=C2= =A0

Best,
R.

<= /div> _______________________________________________
spring mailing list
spring@ietf.= org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
--000000000000e9b36e059ad1a13c-- From nobody Sat Dec 28 23:27:16 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45364120180 for ; Sat, 28 Dec 2019 23:27:14 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hVjZ7sBIiYA1 for ; Sat, 28 Dec 2019 23:27:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-lj1-x229.google.com (mail-lj1-x229.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EC38F12004E for ; Sat, 28 Dec 2019 23:27:11 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-lj1-x229.google.com with SMTP id j26so30513969ljc.12 for ; Sat, 28 Dec 2019 23:27:11 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=5nTGHmS1Pgs9LpnTpFamEVvLLTVBlw9dV774wOt1SZM=; b=C3EgbM/WaFw4+a8IAfTRXNlnHy0bcZZznYVCN2ylRMybvY9Q5okhwZRxxubRKRlyky Foc5zCl4l7aj5biny20jgXkhoaFxO+0rt6hF7KoTNLplnT0AYyEQVzEB9CF0OemMofij kHgS/gen6r4aDOfXL57B5bszmPclgSe19Guwo8IlZfQve/6vWPqjeKBaO7jqvJZqrmFH +WCvX9vAVbh3JMvtcxMIJypsDHRiFmdXRdgUmubMy15NvQ/u38jn+NWrv170MKqmgTz5 vIE2ckb4XMpOaUdAaheChJfIgvt9KwLMy3OvvtbP1My/Tgoh0nfuj2DeuSJGhxQaK7+d gOuQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=5nTGHmS1Pgs9LpnTpFamEVvLLTVBlw9dV774wOt1SZM=; b=R1+fRRky2ho7lHn7hyVGrFFBGe7xN/jjXq05ZVOYDD7MgVNWJKHCyREEsWyTcj39aS aYtwR/431tzY+hErFQR7YcoZj2CFINCiV+ckl4eJQiupHPeLNKuudWDb7KM90jpoMgVY DThB0b/fPHa3ah7czNLz52liRHsC7LZuwlbn8A+urrrNacgg/69NYChaz4Td2pDnBMN4 mR3wPzS21ixXLhqLKg3sbMXrAqGSOrLehEzTzJ2nSTXorwMT1f4JNkIzshPoUU/bYrny WKnERYIoajKRZfthUUp/EhRrU9s1wMM2tZAUMXxW/LBT8APsUvk2R8d7m088ti/YwDZs yaPA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAU4T4UX/mNo8PXqe+pusciquKtU17Gf/UpAKrsJYjCF0Ua1IfOH oUIPOnh81IYcwTTutR84rSB3upyv2UHZAIzWkM4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxjxlRhZczZ7d4+nOluVEcd50+BFp0zuqxx+zu7aihemVB8D9HM9pa5K3cL/rPVeCNLCZUFUgjWNv7J3cmWvTM= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:9592:: with SMTP id w18mr32970845ljh.98.1577604430231; Sat, 28 Dec 2019 23:27:10 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <8f5607c9-645a-ea88-e2a7-a4bed8206fc8@gmail.com> <63F5AA66-AEF8-4278-B98C-D3C53AC5A60A@cisco.com> <069e6021-537c-422a-37da-f090a6ac334b@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: From: Miya Kohno Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2019 16:26:59 +0900 Message-ID: To: Mark Smith Cc: Robert Raszuk , Ron Bonica , SPRING WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000a8fc37059ad2a7ae" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] 64-bit locators X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2019 07:27:14 -0000 --000000000000a8fc37059ad2a7ae Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Yes, Mark, we are talking about network protocols. And what's remarkable is that the "declarative" nature of network protocol can ensure backward compatibility and co-existing possibility between the commodity and the new innovation. Miya On Sun, Dec 29, 2019 at 3:13 PM Mark Smith wrote: > > > On Sun, 29 Dec 2019, 16:10 Miya Kohno, wrote: > >> I agree with Robert. >> Modern language is generous about type ([*] as an example). C also has a >> concept of "union", though. . >> > > We are talking about network protocols, not programming languages. > > A union is an internal data representation function to save memory. The > access type to that memory is encoded in the source code implicitly. > > In networking protocols that type information is encoded explicitly in > type fields or field definitions themselves. > > > >> The stubborn discussion of IPv6 address will hinder creativity and >> innovation for the future. >> > > When you have a 24 year old protocol (RFC1883) that is still interoperable > with the newest implementations, that has literally been implemented in > billions of devices, and where continued interoperability is critical, > because it's expected to be the most deployed and used protocol of all in > the future, creativity and innovation are naturally hindered. > > That's the price you have to be willing to pay if you want to use and > benefit from a commodity and therefore cheap to use protocol. > > This is why the SPRING approach in a number of cases doesn't make sense. > > Use IPv6 because it is commodity; then propose quite radical and > non-compliant changes that customise the protocol for SPRING's special > cases. > > Customising a commodity protocol defeats the purpose of using it in the > first place - because your customisations decommodify it. > > You lose the scales of economy, the interoperability with existing > implementations and the existing knowledge, history and experience with the > commodity protocol. > > There is room for change in IPv6, but only in certain places, and they > have to be compatible with existing implementations. RFC7217 is a recent > example of that, as is RFC6437. > > IPv6 is like at 24 year old house for lease. > > When you rent it, some rooms can be used for different purposes without > too many issues e.g. a lounge as a bedroom, or a bedroom as a study. > There's enough flexibility in those rooms that they can be multipurpose > (although in some cases a lounge room would not be private enough to be a > satisfactory bedroom, and perhaps too central to the house). > > However you can't make the bathroom a lounge, or the kitchen into a > toilet. Those rooms have fixed and strictly defined purposes and > infrastructure, making them unsuitable for any other purpose. > > If you owned the house you could make those changes - at great expense. > > SPRING is renting IPv6. SPRING doesn't own IPv6. Look for lounge rooms you > can make bedrooms, or bedrooms you can make studies. Don't try to covert a > bathroom into a lounge or a kitchen into a toilet (EH insertion, PSP, uSID, > NH=59 implicit payload ...). > > >> [*] https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0484/#union-types >> >> Miya >> >> On Sun, Dec 29, 2019 at 1:19 AM Robert Raszuk wrote: >> >>> >>> > I am very puzzled reading those messages what is the point regarding >>>> all remaining bits outside of locator ? If this is to say RFC4291 did not >>>> defined a SID - sure you won - game over. But at the same time I do not see >>>> anything in RFC4291 which would prohibit me to put any bit sequence I like >>>> in the remaining (least significant) bits of the address. >>>> >>>> If you limit yourself to the Interface Identifier portion of the IPv6 >>>> address, you can encode other semantics in that portion that are >>>> significant to the end points. That is permitted by RFC 7136, >>>> "Significance of IPv6 Interface Identifiers:" >>>> >>>> "In all cases, the bits in an IID have no generic semantics; in other >>>> words, they have opaque values. In fact, the whole IID value MUST be >>>> viewed as an opaque bit string by third parties, except possibly in >>>> the local context." >>>> >>>> While the packet is being forwarded towards an end point, those >>>> end-point semantics are to be ignored, because IPv6 forwarding is >>>> longest match across all 128 bits: >>>> >>> >>> All correct. >>> >>> And that means that if you consider FUNC:ARGs bits as IIDs there is no >>> conflict at all and current SRv6 SIDs are compliant verbatim with section >>> 2.5.4 of RFC4291. Maybe SRv6 drafts should all make it clear. >>> >>> And yes they are only significant to the destination of the packet too. >>> Just keep in mind that destination is an encapsulation destination == each >>> segment end. >>> >>> Best, >>> R. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> spring mailing list >>> spring@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring >>> >> --000000000000a8fc37059ad2a7ae Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Yes, Mark, we are talking about network protocols. An= d what's remarkable is that the "declarative" nature of netwo= rk protocol can ensure backward compatibility and co-existing possibility b= etween the commodity and the new innovation.

Miya<= br>


On Sun, Dec 29, 2019 at 3:13 PM Mark Smith <markzzzsmith@gmail.com> wrote:
<= blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-l= eft:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">

On Su= n, 29 Dec 2019, 16:10 Miya Kohno, <miya.kohno@gmail.com> wrote:
I agree with = Robert.
Modern language is generous about type ([*] as an ex= ample). C also has a concept of "union", though. .

We = are talking about network protocols, not programming languages.

A union is an internal data represe= ntation function to save memory. The access type to that memory is encoded = in the source code implicitly.

In networking protocols that type information is encoded explicitly = in type fields or field definitions themselves.

=


The stubborn discussion of IPv6 address will hin= der creativity and innovation for the future.

When you have a 24 yea= r=C2=A0old protocol (RFC1883) that is still interoperable with the newest i= mplementations, that has literally been implemented in billions of devices,= and where continued interoperability is critical, because it's expecte= d to be the most deployed and used protocol of all in the future, creativit= y and innovation are naturally hindered.

<= div dir=3D"auto">That's the price you have to be willing to pay if you = want to use and benefit from a commodity and therefore cheap to use protoco= l.

This is why the SPRIN= G approach in a number of cases doesn't make sense.
=C2=A0
Use IPv6 because it is commodity; then pr= opose quite radical and non-compliant changes that customise the protocol f= or SPRING's special cases.

Customising a commodity protocol defeats the purpose of using it in = the first place - because your customisations decommodify it.

You lose the scales of economy, the i= nteroperability with existing implementations and the existing knowledge, h= istory and experience with the commodity protocol.
<= br>
There is room for change in IPv6, but only in ce= rtain places, and they have to be compatible with existing implementations.= RFC7217 is a recent example of that, as is RFC6437.=C2=A0

IPv6 is like at 24 year old house for le= ase.

When you rent it, s= ome rooms can be used for different purposes without too many issues e.g. a= lounge as a bedroom, or a bedroom as a study. There's enough flexibili= ty in those rooms that they can be multipurpose (although in some cases a l= ounge room would not be private enough to be a satisfactory bedroom, and pe= rhaps too central to the house).

However you can't make the bathroom a lounge, or the kitchen = into a toilet. Those rooms have fixed and strictly defined purposes and inf= rastructure, making them unsuitable for any other purpose.

If you owned the house you could make th= ose changes - at great expense.

SPRING is renting IPv6. SPRING doesn't own IPv6. Look for lou= nge rooms you can make bedrooms, or bedrooms you can make studies. Don'= t try to covert a bathroom into a lounge or a kitchen into a toilet (EH ins= ertion, PSP, uSID, NH=3D59 implicit payload ...).


On Sun, Dec 29, 2019 at 1:19 AM Robert R= aszuk <= robert@raszuk.net> wrote:

> I am ve= ry puzzled reading those messages what is the point regarding all remaining= bits outside of locator ? If this is to say RFC4291 did not defined a SID = - sure you won - game over. But at the same time I do not see anything in R= FC4291 which would prohibit me to put any bit sequence I like in the remain= ing (least significant) bits of the address.

If you limit yourself to the Interface Identifier portion of the IPv6
address, you can encode other semantics in that portion that are
significant to the end points. That is permitted by RFC 7136,
"Significance of IPv6 Interface Identifiers:"

"In all cases, the bits in an IID have no generic semantics; in other<= br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0words, they have opaque values.=C2=A0 In fact, the whole IID v= alue MUST be
=C2=A0 =C2=A0viewed as an opaque bit string by third parties, except possib= ly in
=C2=A0 =C2=A0the local context."

While the packet is being forwarded towards an end point, those
end-point semantics are to be ignored, because IPv6 forwarding is
longest match across all 128 bits:

All = correct.=C2=A0

And that means that if you consider= FUNC:ARGs bits as IIDs there is no conflict at all and current SRv6 SIDs a= re compliant=C2=A0verbatim with section 2.5.4 of RFC4291. Maybe SRv6 drafts= should all make it clear.=C2=A0

And yes they are = only significant to the destination of the packet too. Just keep in mind th= at destination is an encapsulation destination =3D=3D each segment end.=C2= =A0

Best,
R.

<= /div> _______________________________________________
spring mailing list
spring@ietf.= org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
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boundary="_000_BN7PR05MB3938D4C5788283FC40963A69AE240BN7PR05MB3938namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: eea9023e-b37b-4c6f-d350-08d78c85d7d4 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 29 Dec 2019 17:37:57.2644 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: omsHo3xVEstW39wSeDsHLlXC+5PXr3xFAc7tOFJCR5bflVNpaY/Mt8GwBGn2C05Vh4a9dcINHTCG3nON1PmU3A== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN7PR05MB3971 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.95,18.0.572 definitions=2019-12-29_03:2019-12-27,2019-12-29 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_spam_notspam policy=outbound_spam score=0 mlxscore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 impostorscore=0 clxscore=1015 priorityscore=1501 spamscore=0 bulkscore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 malwarescore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-1910280000 definitions=main-1912290165 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] End.DT/End.DX SIDs (was Re: USD/USP question in draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-06.txt) X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2019 17:38:15 -0000 --_000_BN7PR05MB3938D4C5788283FC40963A69AE240BN7PR05MB3938namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Camillo, I may be misunderstanding something. Do the numeric constants defined in Se= ction 9.2.1 of draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network programming appear in SIDs? For example, assume that a node advertises the locator 2001:db8:0:1::/64. C= an we assume that all END.DX6 SIDs instantiated on that node will be drawn = from 2001:db8:0:1:10::/80? Ron Juniper Business Use Only From: Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril) Sent: Friday, December 20, 2019 12:31 PM To: weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com; hayabusagsm@gmail.com; Ron Bonica Cc: spring@ietf.org; Voyer, Daniel Subject: Re: [spring] End.DT/End.DX SIDs (was Re: USD/USP question in draft= -ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-06.txt) Ron, Gyan, Sections 4.4 to 4.8 of draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming define th= e local dataplane processing on the egress PE. As far as L3VPN signaling is concerned [draft-ietf-bess-srv6-services], the= egress PE signals opaque behavior for the SID, so it is transparent to the= control plane. Whether the egress PE is doing End.DX or End.DT is transpar= ent to the ingress PE. Happy holidays, Pablo. From: Ron Bonica > Date: Thursday, 19 December 2019 at 17:29 To: "Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)" >, "Wang, Weibin (NSB - CN/Shanghai)" >, Gyan Mishra > Cc: "spring@ietf.org" >, "Voyer, Daniel" > Subject: RE: [spring] End.DT/End.DX SIDs (was Re: USD/USP question in draft= -ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-06.txt) Pablo, In L3VPN, all of these are combined into a single 20-bit MPLS label. Why ca= n SRv6 not do likewise? Ron Juniper Business Use Only From: spring > On B= ehalf Of Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril) Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2019 6:47 AM To: Wang, Weibin (NSB - CN/Shanghai) >; Gyan Mishra > Cc: spring@ietf.org; Voyer, Daniel > Subject: [spring] End.DT/End.DX SIDs (was Re: USD/USP question in draft-iet= f-spring-srv6-network-programming-06.txt) Gyan, The End.DX4/End.DX6 can be seen as an equivalent to the MPLS per-CE VPN lab= el. The End.DT4/End.DT6 can be seen as an equivalent to the MPLS per-VRF VPN la= bel. I believe that they cannot be combined. Cheers, Pablo. From: Gyan Mishra > Date: Sunday, 15 December 2019 at 08:29 To: "Wang, Weibin (NSB - CN/Shanghai)" > Cc: "Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)" >, "Voyer, Daniel" >,= "spring@ietf.org" > Subject: Re: [spring] USD/USP question in draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-pr= ogramming-06.txt Hi Wang & Pablo & Spring Authors, Had another question? These 4 sections. Trying to understand the difference between end.dx4 end.= dx6 and end.dt4 and end.dt6. They both seem very similar. One says xconne= ct but other has v4 v6 lookup but for both you have to signal L3 vpn servi= ces sid. Not sure why both SIDs dx dt Sid function why they cannot be comb= ined. I noticed this difference below that the dx4 dt4 account for the global tab= le scenario where the PE-CE is native IPv4 or IPv6. In the MPLS world that= use case is very different in that there is not any L3 vpn label and do th= e label stack only had a single topmost label. Also in the MPLS scenario w= ith IPv6 global table PE-CE with a IPv4 core you require BGP -LU labeled un= icast "send label" to label all the IPv6 prefixed tunneled over IPv4. Sin= ce that scenario is very different with global table does it make sense to = have a separate End.x variant for global table for both IPv4 and IPv6. Note that an End.DT6 may be defined for the main IPv6 table in which case and End.DT6 supports the equivalent of an IPv6inIPv6 decapsulation (without VPN/tenant implication). 4.4. End.DX6: Decapsu= lation and IPv6 cross-connect . . . . . . 12 4.5. End.DX4: Decapsu= lation and IPv4 cross-connect . . . . . . 13 4.6. End.DT6: Decapsu= lation and specific IPv6 table lookup . . 14 4.7. End.DT4: Decapsu= lation and specific IPv4 table lookup . . 15 Also I was trying to understand end.dt46. So if the PE-CE edge is dual stacked anhas both v4 and v6 you have a VRF te= nant v4 and v6 separate peers signaled via L3 vpn services TLV. So why do = you need this end.dt46 sid 4.8. End.DT46: Decapsulati= on and specific IP table lookup . . 16 Kind Regards, Gyan On Sun, Dec 15, 2019 at 2:06 AM Gyan Mishra > wrote: Hi Wang I have a question regarding the PSP, USP and USD sections I pasted below. I just sent an email to Spring WG related to PSP and technically why that i= s necessary as that is a legacy concept that has parity to MPLS but is not = used today due to QOS issues. Please see that email related to that topic. In the PSP section can If we have to keep PSP can we add verbiage that stat= es that PSP removal of the SRH header occurs on the Penultimate egress P no= de. In the USP section can we also add that all remaining SRH present in the pa= cket are popped on the egress PE ultimate node. In looking at these 3 SID functions the PSP and USP pop the EH and the USP = removes the 6in6 encapsulation so that the other end.x dt4 dt6 etc can pop = the services L3vpn headers. Why can't the USD 6in6 encapsulation removal be done on with the USP SID? Why does the USP and USD SID have to be separate? 4.16.1. PSP: Penultimat= e Segment Pop of the SRH The SRH processing of the End, End.X and End.T behaviors are modified: after the instruction "S14. Update IPv6 DA with Segment List[Segments Left]" is executed, the following instructions must be executed as well: S14.1. If (updated SL =3D=3D 0) { S14.2. Pop the SRH S14.3. } 4.16.2. USP: Ultimate S= egment Pop of the SRH The SRH processing of the End, End.X and End.T behaviors are modified: the instructions S02-S04 are substituted by the following ones: S02. If (Segments Left =3D=3D 0) { S03. Pop the SRH S04. } 4.16.3. USD: Ultimate S= egment Decapsulation The SRH processing of the End, End.X and End.T behaviors are modified: the instructions S02-S04 are substituted by the following ones: S02. If (Segments Left =3D=3D 0) { S03. Skip the SRH processing and proceed to the next header S04. } Further on, the Upper-layer header processing of the End, End.X and End.T behaviors are modified as follows: Kind regards, Gyan On Sat, Dec 14, 2019 at 9:08 PM Wang, Weibin (NSB - CN/Shanghai) > wrote: Hi Pablo: After the 2 context assumption in previous version of this draft, "we assu= me that there is no other extension header than the SRH." and "We assume that the SRH may be present multiple times inside each packet", are remo= ved in this last draft, I feel a bit confusion on USD SID, as well as combi= nation of USD & USP. First, within the content of this last draft, the word "Further on" marked = red in the following pseudocode in section "4.16.3" is hard to understand i= f the packet being processed has other EH embed between SRH and Upper-layer= header, such as AH or other EH, then the processing control of this packet= will be passed to normal IPv6 module from current SRH processing module in= SR-Node, so my question is : Can its control after completing AH processin= g (for example) be back to SRH module (or call it pseudocode module) to pr= oceed the next header like "upper-lay header type =3D=3D41 or 4". Or, if not, Did you created a new EH processing protocol stack instance in = parallel to normal IPv6 module within the scope of SRH processing in SR-nod= e. 4.16.3. USD: Ultimate Segment Decapsulation S02. If (Segments Left =3D=3D 0) { S03. Skip the SRH processing and proceed to the next header S04. } Further on, the Upper-layer header processing of the End, End.X and End.T behaviors are modified as follows: End: S01. If (Upper-layer Header type =3D=3D 41 || 4) { S02. Remove the outer IPv6 Header with all its extension headers S03. Submit the packet to the egress IP FIB lookup and transmission to the new destination S04. } Else { S05. Send an ICMP Parameter Problem message to the Source Address Code 4 (SR Upper-layer Header Error), Pointer set to the offset of the upper-layer header. Interrupt packet processing and discard the packet. S06. } >From my understanding, the all processing action about specific SID must be= completed successively. That is to say, upon USD, the upper-layer header (= type 41 or 4) must be followed the SRH header being processed currently, or= second SRH following the same rule (of course, the draft not considering 2= or more successive SRHs). Second, the mixed SIDs function with combination of USD and USP (even PSP&U= SD&USP), I think, it is easy to understand when the two assumption above ex= ist, but now I think it isn't clear if you only provide the following sente= nce in this draft, i.e. "if ... else..." statement: "An implementation that supports the USD flavor in conjunction with the USP flavor MAY optimize the packet processing by first looking whether the conditions for the USD flavor are met, in which case it can proceed with USD processing else do USP processing." This confusion is also described in my another mail. Of course, if the firs= t question is addressed then this confusion does not exist. By the way, is it really no different in text description before and after = the two context assumption above removed? Cheers ! WANG Weibin _______________________________________________ spring mailing list spring@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring -- Gyan S. Mishra IT Network Engineering & Technology Verizon Communications Inc. (VZ) 13101 Columbia Pike FDC1 3rd Floor Silver Spring, MD 20904 United States Phone: 301 502-1347 Email: gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies-consultant -- Gyan S. Mishra IT Network Engineering & Technology Verizon Communications Inc. (VZ) 13101 Columbia Pike FDC1 3rd Floor Silver Spring, MD 20904 United States Phone: 301 502-1347 Email: gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies-consultant --_000_BN7PR05MB3938D4C5788283FC40963A69AE240BN7PR05MB3938namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Camillo,

 

I may be misunderstanding something. Do the numeric = constants defined in Section 9.2.1 of draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network progra= mming appear in SIDs?

 

For example, assume that a node advertises the locat= or 2001:db8:0:1::/64. Can we assume that all END.DX6 SIDs instantiated on t= hat node will be drawn from  2001:db8:0:1:10::/80?

 

        &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;         Ron

 

 

 

Juniper Business Use Only

From: Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril) <pcamaril= @cisco.com>
Sent: Friday, December 20, 2019 12:31 PM
To: weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com; hayabusagsm@gmail.com; Ron Bonica &= lt;rbonica@juniper.net>
Cc: spring@ietf.org; Voyer, Daniel <daniel.voyer@bell.ca>
Subject: Re: [spring] End.DT/End.DX SIDs (was Re: USD/USP question i= n draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-06.txt)

 

Ron, Gyan,

 

Sections 4.4 to 4.8 of draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ= k-programming define the local dataplane processing on the egress PE.<= /o:p>

 

As far as L3VPN signaling is concerned [draft-ietf-b= ess-srv6-services], the egress PE signals opaque behavior for the SID, so i= t is transparent to the control plane. Whether the egress PE is doing End.D= X or End.DT is transparent to the ingress PE.

 

Happy holidays,

Pablo.

 

From: Ron Bonica <rbonica@juniper.net>
Date: Thursday, 19 December 2019 at 17:29
To: "Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)" <pcamaril@cisco.com>, "Wang, Weibin (NSB - CN/S= hanghai)" <weibin.wa= ng@nokia-sbell.com>, Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
Cc: "spring@ietf.org&quo= t; <spring@ietf.org>, "Vo= yer, Daniel" <daniel.voyer@= bell.ca>
Subject: RE: [spring] End.DT/End.DX SIDs (was Re: USD/USP question i= n draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-06.txt)

 

Pablo,

 

In L3VPN, all of these ar= e combined into a single 20-bit MPLS label. Why can SRv6 not do likewise?

 

    &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Ron

 

 

Juniper Business Use Only

From: spring <<= a href=3D"mailto:spring-bounces@ietf.org">spring-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)
Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2019 6:47 AM
To: Wang, Weibin (NSB - CN/Shanghai) <weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com>; Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
Cc: spring@ietf.org; Voyer, D= aniel <daniel.voyer@bell.ca&= gt;
Subject: [spring] End.DT/End.DX SIDs (was Re: USD/USP question in dr= aft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-06.txt)

 

Gyan= ,

&nbs= p;

The = End.DX4/End.DX6 can be seen as an equivalent to the MPLS per-CE VPN label.<= /span>

The = End.DT4/End.DT6 can be seen as an equivalent to the MPLS per-VRF VPN label.=

&nbs= p;

I be= lieve that they cannot be combined.

&nbs= p;

Chee= rs,

Pabl= o.

&nbs= p;

From: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
Date: Sunday, 15 December 2019 at 08:29
To: "Wang, Weibin (NSB - CN/Shanghai)" <weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com= >
Cc: "Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)" <pcamaril@cisco.com>, "Voyer, Daniel" <daniel.voyer@bell.ca>, "spring@ietf.org" <spring@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [spring] USD/USP question in draft-ietf-spring-srv6-net= work-programming-06.txt

 

 

Hi Wang & Pablo &= ; Spring Authors,

 

Had another question?

 

These 4 sections.  = Trying to understand the difference between end.dx4 end.dx6 and end.dt4 and= end.dt6.  They both seem very similar.  One says xconnect but ot= her has v4 v6 lookup but for both you have to signal  L3 vpn services sid.  Not sure why both SIDs dx dt Sid function= why they cannot be combined.

 

I noticed this differenc= e below that the dx4 dt4 account for the global table scenario where the PE= -CE is native IPv4 or IPv6.  In the MPLS world that use case is very d= ifferent in that there is not any L3 vpn label and do the label stack only had a single topmost label.  Also i= n the MPLS scenario with IPv6 global table PE-CE with a IPv4 core you requi= re BGP -LU labeled unicast “send label” to label all the IPv6 p= refixed tunneled over IPv4.   Since that scenario is very different with global table does it make sense to have a separate = End.x variant for global table for both IPv4 and IPv6.

 

   Note that an End.DT6 may be defined for the main IPv6=
 table in which
 &nb=
sp; case and End.DT6 supports the equivalent of an IPv6inIPv6
 &nb=
sp; decapsulation (without VPN/tenant implication).
 
     4.4.&nbs=
p; End.DX6: Decapsulation and IPv6 cross-connect . . . . . .  <=
span lang=3D"ES">12
 &nb=
sp;   4.=
5.  End.DX4: Decaps=
ulation and IPv4 cross-connect . . . . . .  <=
a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf=
-spring-srv6-network-programming-05*page-13__;Iw!!NEt6yMaO-gk!QzHlcRglDrowI=
q4p7kbUU8tNwsbwrneoRiLDYAClyLIXp1ZLWOSxDhU6JHAg09NC$">13
 &nb=
sp;   4.=
6.  End.DT6: Decaps=
ulation and specific IPv6 table lookup . .  <=
a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf=
-spring-srv6-network-programming-05*page-14__;Iw!!NEt6yMaO-gk!QzHlcRglDrowI=
q4p7kbUU8tNwsbwrneoRiLDYAClyLIXp1ZLWOSxDhU6JA89XfKV$">14
 &nb=
sp;   4.=
7.  End.DT4: Decaps=
ulation and specific IPv4 table lookup . .  <=
a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf=
-spring-srv6-network-programming-05*page-15__;Iw!!NEt6yMaO-gk!QzHlcRglDrowI=
q4p7kbUU8tNwsbwrneoRiLDYAClyLIXp1ZLWOSxDhU6JICjeckL$">15
 
Also I was trying to understand end.dt46.
 
So if the PE-CE edge is dual stacked anhas both v4 and v6 you have=
 a VRF tenant v4 and v6 separate peers signaled via L3 vpn services TLV.&nb=
sp; So why do you need this end.dt46 sid
 
4.8.  End.DT46: =
Decapsulation and specific IP table lookup  . .  16
     
 
Kind Regards,
 
Gyan
 

Hi Wang

 

I have a question regarding the PSP, USP and USD sections I pasted be= low.

 

I just sent an email to Spring WG related to PSP and technically why = that is necessary as that is a legacy concept that has parity to MPLS but i= s not used today due to QOS issues.  Please see that email related to that topic.

 

 

In the PSP section can If we have to keep PSP can we add verbiage tha= t states that PSP removal of the SRH header occurs on the Penultimate egres= s P node.

 

In the USP section can we also add that all remaining SRH present in = the packet are popped on the egress PE ultimate node.

 

In looking at these 3 SID functions the PSP and USP pop the EH and th= e USP removes the 6in6 encapsulation so that the other end.x dt4 dt6 etc ca= n pop the services L3vpn headers.

 

Why can’t the USD 6in6 encapsulation removal be done on with th= e USP SID?

 

Why does the USP and USD SID have to be separate?

 

4.16.1.  PSP: Penultimate Segment Pop of the SRH

 
 
  =
 The SRH processing of the End, End.X and End.T behaviors are
  =
 modified: after the instruction "S14.  Update IPv6 DA with Segme=
nt
  =
 List[Segments Left]" is executed, the following instructions must be<=
/span>
  =
 executed as well:
 
  =
 S14.1.   If (updated SL =3D=3D 0) {
  =
 S14.2.      Pop the SRH
  =
 S14.3.   }
 

4.16.2.  USP: Ultimate Segment Pop of the SRH

 
 
  =
 The SRH processing of the End, End.X and End.T behaviors are
  =
 modified: the instructions S02-S04 are substituted by the following=

  =
 ones:
 
  =
 S02.   If (Segments Left =3D=3D 0) {
  =
 S03.       Pop the SRH

  =
 S04.   }


 




4.16.3. 
 USD: Ultimate Segment Decapsulation




 


 


  =
 The SRH processing of the End, End.X and End.T behaviors are


  =
 modified: the instructions S02-S04 are substituted by the following=



  =
 ones:


 


  =
 S02.   If (Segments Left =3D=3D 0) {


  =
 S03.      Skip the SRH processing and proceed to =
the next header


  =
 S04.   }


 


 


  =
 Further on, the Upper-layer header processing of the End, End.X and=



  =
 End.T behaviors are modified as follows:


 


 


Kind regards,

 


Gyan

 

On Sat, Dec 14, 2019 at = 9:08 PM Wang, Weibin (NSB - CN/Shanghai) <w= eibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com> wrote:

Hi Pablo:

 

After the 2 context assumption in previous version of this draft,  = 220;we assume that there is no other extension hea= der than the SRH.”  and  “We assume

   that the SRH may be present multiple = times inside each packet”, are removed in this last draft, I f= eel a bit confusion on USD SID, as well as combination of USD & USP.

 

First, within the content of this last draft, the word “Further on= 221; marked red in the following pseudocode in section “4.16.3”= is hard to understand if the packet being processed has other EH embed bet= ween SRH and Upper-layer header, such as AH or other EH, then the processing control of this packet will be passed to normal IPv6 m= odule from current SRH processing module in SR-Node, so my question is : Ca= n its control after completing AH processing (for example)  be back to= SRH module (or call it pseudocode module) to proceed the next header like “upper-lay header type =3D=3D41 or 4= ”.

Or, if not, Did you created a new EH processing protocol stack instance in = parallel to normal IPv6 module within the scope of SRH processing in SR-nod= e.

 

4.16.3.  USD: Ultimate Segment Decapsulation<= /span>

 

S02.   If (Segments Left =3D=3D 0) {

   S03.      Sk= ip the SRH processing and proceed to the next header

   S04.   }<= /p>

 

Further on, the Upper-layer header processing of the En= d, End.X and

   End.T behaviors are modified as follo= ws:

 

   End:

   S01. If (Upper-layer Header type =3D= =3D 41 || 4) {

   S02.    Remove the out= er IPv6 Header with all its extension headers

   S03.    Submit the pac= ket to the egress IP FIB lookup and

        &n= bsp;     transmission to the new destination

   S04. } Else {

   S05.    Send an ICMP P= arameter Problem message to the Source Address

        &n= bsp;     Code 4 (SR Upper-layer Header Error),

        &n= bsp;     Pointer set to the offset of the upper-layer h= eader.

        &n= bsp;     Interrupt packet processing and discard the pa= cket.

 

   S06. }

 

>From my understanding, the all processing action about specific SID must be= completed successively. That is to say, upon USD, the upper-layer header (= type 41 or 4) must be followed the SRH header being processed currently, or= second SRH following the same rule (of course, the draft not considering 2 or more successive SRHs).

 

Second, the mixed SIDs function with combination of USD and USP (even PSP&a= mp;USD&USP), I think, it is easy to understand when the two assumption = above exist, but now I think it isn’t clear if you only provide the f= ollowing sentence in this draft, i.e.  “if … else…&#= 8221; statement:

“An implementation that supports the USD fla= vor in conjunction with

   the USP flavor MAY optimize the packe= t processing by first looking

   whether the conditions for the USD fl= avor are met, in which case it

   can proceed with USD processing else = do USP processing.”

This confusion is also described in my another mail. Of course, if the firs= t question is addressed then this confusion does not exist.

 

By the way, is it really no different in text description before and after = the two context assumption above removed?

 

 

Cheers !

 

WANG Weibin

________________________= _______________________
spring mailing list
spring@ietf.org
ht= tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring

--

Gyan S. Mishra

IT Network Engineering & Technology =

Verizon Communications Inc. (VZ)<= o:p>

13101 Columbia Pike FDC1 3rd Floor

Silver Spring, MD 20904

United States

Phone: 301 502-1347

Email: gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com<= /o:p>

www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies= -consultant

 

--

Gyan S. Mishra

IT Network Engineering & Technology =

Verizon Communications Inc. (VZ)<= o:p>

13101 Columbia Pike FDC1 3rd Floor

Silver Spring, MD 20904

United States

Phone: 301 502-1347

Email: gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com<= /o:p>

www.linkedin.com/in/networking-technologies= -consultant

 

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<069e6021-537c-422a-37da-f090a6ac334b@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: From: Robert Raszuk Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2019 19:34:53 +0100 Message-ID: To: Ron Bonica Cc: SPRING WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000004a4cb4059adbfccb" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] 64-bit locators X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2019 18:35:10 -0000 --0000000000004a4cb4059adbfccb Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Ron, My personal reading of number of similar discussions on this - including our own emails leads me to believe that indeed what you stated below would be helpful - but with one significant addition. We should be perhaps putting those constraints to SID LOCATORS only (in RFC4291 language global routing prefixes) and not so much to the encoded IIDs in the remaining bits. After all IIDs are of local significance to sender and receiver of outer encapsulated packets - they are not in any way take part in packet transit routing or at any point can impact or endanger interoperability. Regards, R. On Sun, Dec 29, 2019 at 6:49 PM Ron Bonica wrote: > Robert, > > > > We may be converging! > > > > In another email thread, you and I agreed that a SID should be drawn from > global unicast address space or ULA space, but not from any other special > address space (e.g., link-local, multicast). It would be great if that > agreement were reflected in the document. > > > > We should also consider the consequences of sending packets with SIDs as > source addresses. In particular, we should consider the consequences of > sending an ICMP message with a SID in the source address field. > > > > Another restriction may be required here. > > > > Ron > > > > > > *From:* Robert Raszuk > *Sent:* Friday, December 27, 2019 12:05 PM > *To:* Ron Bonica > *Cc:* SPRING WG > *Subject:* Re: [spring] 64-bit locators > > > > Hi Ron, > > > > Great to hear an agreement from you ! Must be power of Christmas :). > > > > I actually see no conflict in the claim that SID is not an address in > itself with statement that it can be a routable entity which was I believ= e > the original intention of the text you quote. > > > > I think your conclusion that we are both wrong based on section 2 of > RFC8402 sits at the fact that the term "address" is rather broad and used > (as already proven in other messages) imprecisely or loosely all over IET= F. > > > > It is just like router_id ... it is a numerical representation of a node > while the moment you put this numeric 32 bit string under logical interfa= ce > and advertise it - it suddenly becomes a valid destination target or for > that matter src originator. > > > > So to your first question ... I think we agreed in the other mail from > which spaces the IPv6 locator can be used. Of course as things evolve > making any assumption that such binding is going to stay intact would be > rather weak advice to any hardware designer. > > > > To your second point I think SID itself when mapped to interface can be a > src. I see really nothing which could prevent me to use any address as sr= c > or dst in my network. > > > > I am actually not sure where are you going with those if you will > "restrictions" as to the SID semantical components. To me SID is a locall= y > significant value in the network (including overlay network) which choose= s > to use SRv6 and I really see no reason to constrain it in any additional > way. > > > > Perhaps your point is that SID does not fit to RFC4291 IPv6 Addressing > Architecture. Well perhaps but if so RFC8402 should be listed in 4291 as > updating it - just like 5952, 6052, 7136, 7346, 7371, 8064 all do. Frankl= y > I am not sure why it is not there now in the first place. > > > > Kind regards, > > Robert. > > > > > > On Fri, Dec 27, 2019 at 4:21 PM Ron Bonica wrote: > > Robert, > > > > Personally, I agree with what you say below. =E2=80=9CA SID is NOT an IPv= 6 > address.=E2=80=9D > > > > However, Section 2 of RFC 8402 says that we are both wrong. It defines an > SRv6 SID as follows: > > > > =E2=80=9CSRv6 SID: an IPv6 address explicitly associated with the segment= .=E2=80=9D > > > > So, assuming that a SID is an IPv6 address, we must figure out how it fit= s > into the IPv6 addressing architecture. Questions like the following must = be > answered: > > > > - From which special purpose prefixes [RFC 6890] can SIDs be drawn? > - Can a SID appear in the source address field of an IPv6 packet? > > > > So far, the co-authors have avoided such issues. > > > > Ron > > > > > > *From:* Robert Raszuk > *Sent:* Saturday, December 21, 2019 6:43 PM > *To:* Ron Bonica > *Cc:* Andrew Alston ; Alexandre Petrescu > ; SPRING WG ; Gyan Mishra = < > hayabusagsm@gmail.com>; Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril) ; > Mark Smith > *Subject:* Re: [spring] 64-bit locators > > > > Hey Ron, > > > > > Leaving both chickens and eggs in the hen house=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6.. > > > > Indeed ... after all it is not Easter Time ! > > > > > Only one answer can be correct =F0=9F=98=89 > > > > To me this is very obvious ... > > > > SID is NOT an IPv6 address. Part of the SID is a locator which is used fo= r > vanilla IPv6 forwarding (based on IPv6 routing prefixes), but that is all > this 128 bit string has in common with IPv6. > > > > Merry SID-less Christmas, > R. > > > > > > On Sat, Dec 21, 2019 at 9:32 PM Ron Bonica wrote: > > Robert, > > > > Leaving both chickens and eggs in the hen house=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6.. > > > > We have never explicitly stated whether a SID **is** and IPv6 address or = **merely > resembles** an IPv6 address. Which is it? > > > > Hint: This is a multiple choice question. Only one answer can be correct > =F0=9F=98=89 > > > > Happy Holidays, > > Ron > > > > > > Juniper Business Use Only > > --0000000000004a4cb4059adbfccb Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Ron,

My personal reading of number o= f similar discussions on this - including our own emails leads me to believ= e that indeed what you stated below would be helpful - but with one signifi= cant addition. We should be perhaps putting those constraints=C2=A0to SID L= OCATORS only (in RFC4291 language global routing prefixes) and not so much = to the encoded IIDs in the remaining bits.=C2=A0

A= fter all IIDs are of local significance to sender and receiver of outer enc= apsulated packets - they are not in any way take part in packet transit rou= ting or at any point can impact or endanger interoperability.=C2=A0

Regards,
R.



On Sun, Dec 29, 2019 at 6:49 PM Ron Bonica <rbonica@juniper.net> wrote:

Robert,

=C2=A0

We may be converging!

=C2=A0

In another email thread, you and I agreed that a SID= should be drawn from global unicast address space or ULA space, but not fr= om any other special address space (e.g., link-local, multicast). It would = be great if that agreement were reflected in the document.

=C2=A0

We should also consider the consequences of sending = packets with SIDs as source addresses. In particular, we should consider th= e consequences of sending an ICMP message with a SID in the source address = field.

=C2=A0

Another restriction may be required here.<= /u>

=C2=A0

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Ron<= u>

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

From: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Sent: Friday, December 27, 2019 12:05 PM
To: Ron Bonica <rbonica@juniper.net>
Cc: SPRING WG <spring@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [spring] 64-bit locators

=C2=A0

Hi Ron,

=C2=A0

Great=C2=A0to hear an agreement from you ! Must be p= ower of Christmas :).=C2=A0

=C2=A0

I actually see no conflict in the claim that SID is = not an address in itself with statement that it can be a routable entity wh= ich was I believe the original intention of the text you quote.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

I think your conclusion that we are both wrong based= on section 2 of RFC8402 sits at the fact that the term "address"= is rather broad and used (as already proven in other messages) imprecisely= or loosely all over IETF.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

It is just like router_id ... it is a numerical repr= esentation of a node while the moment you put this numeric 32 bit string un= der logical interface and advertise it - it suddenly=C2=A0becomes a valid d= estination target or for that matter src originator.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

So to your first question ... I think we agreed in t= he other mail from which spaces the IPv6 locator can be used. Of course as = things evolve making any assumption that such binding is going to stay inta= ct would be rather weak advice to any hardware designer.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

To your second=C2=A0point I think SID itself when ma= pped to interface can be a src. I see really nothing which could prevent me= to use any address as src or dst in my network.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

I am actually not sure where are you going with thos= e if you will "restrictions" as to the SID semantical components.= To me SID is a locally significant value in the network (including overlay= network) which chooses to use SRv6 and I really see no reason to constrain it in any additional way.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Perhaps your point is that SID does not fit to RFC42= 91 IPv6 Addressing Architecture. Well perhaps but if so RFC8402 should be l= isted in 4291 as updating it - just like=C2=A05952, 6052, 7136, 7346, 7371,= 8064 all do. Frankly I am not sure why it is not there now in the first place.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Kind regards,

Robert.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

On Fri, Dec 27, 2019 at 4:21 PM Ron Bonica <rbonica@juniper.net= > wrote:

Robert,

=C2=A0

Personally, I agree with what you say below. =E2=80= =9CA SID is NOT an IPv6 address.=E2=80=9D

=C2=A0

However, Section 2 of RFC 8402 says that we are both= wrong. It defines an SRv6 SID as follows:

=C2=A0

=E2=80=9CSRv6 SID: an IPv6 address explicitly associated with the segmen= t.=E2=80=9D

=C2=A0

So, assuming that a SID is an IPv6 address, we must = figure out how it fits into the IPv6 addressing architecture. Questions lik= e the following must be answered:

=C2=A0

  • >From which special purpose prefixes [RFC 6890] =C2=A0can SIDs be drawn?<= /u>
  • Can a SID appear in the source address field of an IPv6 packet?

=C2=A0

So far, the co-authors have avoided such issues.<= /u>

=C2=A0

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Ron

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

From: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2019 6:43 PM
To: Ron Bonica <rbonica@juniper.net>
Cc: Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com>; Alexandre P= etrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>; SPRING WG <spring@ietf.org>; Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>; Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril) <pcamaril@cisco.com>; Mar= k Smith <mar= kzzzsmith@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [spring] 64-bit locators

=C2=A0

Hey Ron,

=C2=A0

> Leaving both chickens and eggs in the hen house= =E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6..=C2=A0=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Indeed ... after all it is not Easter Time !=C2=A0

=C2=A0

> Only one answer can be correct=C2=A0=F0=9F=98=89= =C2=A0=C2=A0

=C2=A0

To me this is very obvious ...=C2=A0

=C2=A0

SID is NOT an IPv6 address. Part of the SID is a loc= ator which is used for vanilla IPv6 forwarding (based on IPv6 routing prefi= xes), but that is all this 128 bit string has in common with IPv6.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Merry SID-less Christmas,
R.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

On Sat, Dec 21, 2019 at 9:32 PM Ron Bonica <rbonica@juniper.net= > wrote:

Robert,

=C2=A0

Leaving both chickens and eggs in the hen house=E2= =80=A6=E2=80=A6..

=C2=A0

We have never explicitly stated whether a SID *is= * and IPv6 address or *merely resembles* an IPv6 address. Which = is it?

=C2=A0

Hint: This is a multiple choice question. Only one a= nswer can be correct =F0=9F=98= =89

=C2=A0

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Happy Holidays,

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Ro= n

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Juniper Business Use Only<= u>

--0000000000004a4cb4059adbfccb-- From nobody Sun Dec 29 13:46:39 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1EFC1200C3 for ; Sun, 29 Dec 2019 13:46:37 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id A2BeKYQnCeVc for ; Sun, 29 Dec 2019 13:46:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ed1-x529.google.com (mail-ed1-x529.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::529]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B7D661200BA for ; Sun, 29 Dec 2019 13:46:34 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ed1-x529.google.com with SMTP id v28so31018338edw.12 for ; Sun, 29 Dec 2019 13:46:34 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=Q103axiPmCTu0nQNEVOnch31T8D1R4cVVu3iVBOXxHI=; b=ogxzJ7Nx36I6BEbYXfaqYHunX31RprbXnqPG7wN0SdoRSvXdQUBrl8qy/U7nKO6NnS hznqjFYMAKY6UGppgh6WRgTQv8xSVFCvrJCwKSJZXDz9pkw0sCrHW0ZLmDN1lZR3UIi1 Rw2ZeuoVkMXycW97mAaehXmG9R0Hh7Owsx9Dw/7dAS0SOlo52MuhACE3hdHzVi6pFfZd fV7cdvMkNFrMYIgqwIUzwdpgiNcTXMtQgF22Q6Ad8BdHz0AgIPSvID4qKajEfaFuW6oY tQhLNm65KWcBYil95SN5oe1Yt83OYV4dKnhTjGtIWuApvkUZZnyhTzNQruTOWI0lCpJZ jxCQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=Q103axiPmCTu0nQNEVOnch31T8D1R4cVVu3iVBOXxHI=; b=JEb8Ozf57vZ56q+jg7Vy92oq8az1B3EwjyFS4kdqnuBQjPZq+FVHc9QLtaDoNCmBvE pvbH/xqbFQaGgtwtDYAQAk1oE689PuFb4uEGhEckaZv1s/SmIG7zo1JGSz8D+KxtLf3k +Z60ysgoEnC70OYzRisz1WxYhN3HJ7xRdQsp9TXbHvFXxqQB6wPeD4n5dNKPJ8LJDkmo psi00BmHNTXI6Dfcq6MHb1xwawIGqD/hB//QthUP1GS5aLNV58sVIdayyMP3gnztKkYn FaE8mg3Ecv+dKYoeY+sZGrbhEByh2xGNVUM+rwBviLJpoEjYab8jPtVQlL/08Scv20td I8JA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUm3JfMlDra25swz9D6nDPCUC33wual4x4hcnLPJ4s01/5qnu4r x/dC5VWO6tXNGb43PLFl+jTK/tCaL2y0dSK52VQ= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwitJ9ec78fNTUy5+RHf+QO5i1VGh8HB6ygDndDH9zJLBaQnvyV0qfNwIis5Ma/w4m7YNAhjjNErxWPxTKVimk= X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:31c6:: with SMTP id f6mr66697208ejf.17.1577655993284; Sun, 29 Dec 2019 13:46:33 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <8f5607c9-645a-ea88-e2a7-a4bed8206fc8@gmail.com> <63F5AA66-AEF8-4278-B98C-D3C53AC5A60A@cisco.com> <069e6021-537c-422a-37da-f090a6ac334b@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: From: Erik Kline Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2019 13:46:21 -0800 Message-ID: To: Ron Bonica Cc: Robert Raszuk , SPRING WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000000ebd39059adea91b" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] 64-bit locators X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2019 21:46:38 -0000 --0000000000000ebd39059adea91b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Dec 29, 2019 at 9:49 AM Ron Bonica wrote: > Robert, > > > > We may be converging! > > > > In another email thread, you and I agreed that a SID should be drawn from > global unicast address space or ULA space, but not from any other special > address space (e.g., link-local, multicast). It would be great if that > agreement were reflected in the document. > Agreed (unless there's some convincing argument for straying outside of 2000::/3). Separately, do you want to ask IANA to reallocate some portion of an old 6bone prefix for this use? ;-) We should also consider the consequences of sending packets with SIDs as > source addresses. In particular, we should consider the consequences of > sending an ICMP message with a SID in the source address field. > My first thought is that SIDs as source addresses for ICMP errors are likely to be of less operational value than one of the router's global unicast addresses. The SID would still be visible in the encapsulated offending payload section of the ICMP datagram, but it's probably going to be more useful to have something more strongly indicative of the processing router's ID than the SID as the src addr. > Another restriction may be required here. > > > > Ron > > > > > > *From:* Robert Raszuk > *Sent:* Friday, December 27, 2019 12:05 PM > *To:* Ron Bonica > *Cc:* SPRING WG > *Subject:* Re: [spring] 64-bit locators > > > > Hi Ron, > > > > Great to hear an agreement from you ! Must be power of Christmas :). > > > > I actually see no conflict in the claim that SID is not an address in > itself with statement that it can be a routable entity which was I believ= e > the original intention of the text you quote. > > > > I think your conclusion that we are both wrong based on section 2 of > RFC8402 sits at the fact that the term "address" is rather broad and used > (as already proven in other messages) imprecisely or loosely all over IET= F. > > > > It is just like router_id ... it is a numerical representation of a node > while the moment you put this numeric 32 bit string under logical interfa= ce > and advertise it - it suddenly becomes a valid destination target or for > that matter src originator. > > > > So to your first question ... I think we agreed in the other mail from > which spaces the IPv6 locator can be used. Of course as things evolve > making any assumption that such binding is going to stay intact would be > rather weak advice to any hardware designer. > > > > To your second point I think SID itself when mapped to interface can be a > src. I see really nothing which could prevent me to use any address as sr= c > or dst in my network. > > > > I am actually not sure where are you going with those if you will > "restrictions" as to the SID semantical components. To me SID is a locall= y > significant value in the network (including overlay network) which choose= s > to use SRv6 and I really see no reason to constrain it in any additional > way. > > > > Perhaps your point is that SID does not fit to RFC4291 IPv6 Addressing > Architecture. Well perhaps but if so RFC8402 should be listed in 4291 as > updating it - just like 5952, 6052, 7136, 7346, 7371, 8064 all do. Frankl= y > I am not sure why it is not there now in the first place. > > > > Kind regards, > > Robert. > > > > > > On Fri, Dec 27, 2019 at 4:21 PM Ron Bonica wrote: > > Robert, > > > > Personally, I agree with what you say below. =E2=80=9CA SID is NOT an IPv= 6 > address.=E2=80=9D > > > > However, Section 2 of RFC 8402 says that we are both wrong. It defines an > SRv6 SID as follows: > > > > =E2=80=9CSRv6 SID: an IPv6 address explicitly associated with the segment= .=E2=80=9D > > > > So, assuming that a SID is an IPv6 address, we must figure out how it fit= s > into the IPv6 addressing architecture. Questions like the following must = be > answered: > > > > - From which special purpose prefixes [RFC 6890] can SIDs be drawn? > - Can a SID appear in the source address field of an IPv6 packet? > > > > So far, the co-authors have avoided such issues. > > > > Ron > > > > > > *From:* Robert Raszuk > *Sent:* Saturday, December 21, 2019 6:43 PM > *To:* Ron Bonica > *Cc:* Andrew Alston ; Alexandre Petrescu > ; SPRING WG ; Gyan Mishra = < > hayabusagsm@gmail.com>; Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril) ; > Mark Smith > *Subject:* Re: [spring] 64-bit locators > > > > Hey Ron, > > > > > Leaving both chickens and eggs in the hen house=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6.. > > > > Indeed ... after all it is not Easter Time ! > > > > > Only one answer can be correct =F0=9F=98=89 > > > > To me this is very obvious ... > > > > SID is NOT an IPv6 address. Part of the SID is a locator which is used fo= r > vanilla IPv6 forwarding (based on IPv6 routing prefixes), but that is all > this 128 bit string has in common with IPv6. > > > > Merry SID-less Christmas, > R. > > > > > > On Sat, Dec 21, 2019 at 9:32 PM Ron Bonica wrote: > > Robert, > > > > Leaving both chickens and eggs in the hen house=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6.. > > > > We have never explicitly stated whether a SID **is** and IPv6 address or = **merely > resembles** an IPv6 address. Which is it? > > > > Hint: This is a multiple choice question. Only one answer can be correct > =F0=9F=98=89 > > > > Happy Holidays, > > Ron > > > > > > Juniper Business Use Only > > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > --0000000000000ebd39059adea91b Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Sun, Dec 29, 2019 at 9:49 AM Ron Bonic= a <rbonica=3D40juniper.n= et@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:

Robert,

=C2=A0

We may be converging!

=C2=A0

In another email thread, you and I agreed that a SID= should be drawn from global unicast address space or ULA space, but not fr= om any other special address space (e.g., link-local, multicast). It would = be great if that agreement were reflected in the document.


Agreed (u= nless there's some convincing argument for straying outside of 2000::/3= ).

Separately, do you want to ask IANA to realloca= te some portion of an old 6bone prefix for this use?=C2=A0 ;-)

We should also consider the consequences of sending packets with SIDs= as source addresses. In particular, we should consider the consequences of= sending an ICMP message with a SID in the source address field.

<= /div>

My first thought is that SIDs as sour= ce addresses for ICMP errors are likely to be of less operational value tha= n one of the router's global unicast addresses.=C2=A0 The SID would sti= ll be visible in the encapsulated offending payload section of the ICMP dat= agram, but it's probably going to be more useful to have something more= strongly indicative of the processing router's ID than the SID as the = src addr.

=C2=A0

Another restriction may be required here.<= /u>

=C2=A0

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Ron<= u>

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

From: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Sent: Friday, December 27, 2019 12:05 PM
To: Ron Bonica <rbonica@juniper.net>
Cc: SPRING WG <spring@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [spring] 64-bit locators

=C2=A0

Hi Ron,

=C2=A0

Great=C2=A0to hear an agreement from you ! Must be p= ower of Christmas :).=C2=A0

=C2=A0

I actually see no conflict in the claim that SID is = not an address in itself with statement that it can be a routable entity wh= ich was I believe the original intention of the text you quote.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

I think your conclusion that we are both wrong based= on section 2 of RFC8402 sits at the fact that the term "address"= is rather broad and used (as already proven in other messages) imprecisely= or loosely all over IETF.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

It is just like router_id ... it is a numerical repr= esentation of a node while the moment you put this numeric 32 bit string un= der logical interface and advertise it - it suddenly=C2=A0becomes a valid d= estination target or for that matter src originator.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

So to your first question ... I think we agreed in t= he other mail from which spaces the IPv6 locator can be used. Of course as = things evolve making any assumption that such binding is going to stay inta= ct would be rather weak advice to any hardware designer.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

To your second=C2=A0point I think SID itself when ma= pped to interface can be a src. I see really nothing which could prevent me= to use any address as src or dst in my network.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

I am actually not sure where are you going with thos= e if you will "restrictions" as to the SID semantical components.= To me SID is a locally significant value in the network (including overlay= network) which chooses to use SRv6 and I really see no reason to constrain it in any additional way.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Perhaps your point is that SID does not fit to RFC42= 91 IPv6 Addressing Architecture. Well perhaps but if so RFC8402 should be l= isted in 4291 as updating it - just like=C2=A05952, 6052, 7136, 7346, 7371,= 8064 all do. Frankly I am not sure why it is not there now in the first place.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Kind regards,

Robert.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

On Fri, Dec 27, 2019 at 4:21 PM Ron Bonica <rbonica@juniper.net= > wrote:

Robert,

=C2=A0

Personally, I agree with what you say below. =E2=80= =9CA SID is NOT an IPv6 address.=E2=80=9D

=C2=A0

However, Section 2 of RFC 8402 says that we are both= wrong. It defines an SRv6 SID as follows:

=C2=A0

=E2=80=9CSRv6 SID: an IPv6 address explicitly associated with the segmen= t.=E2=80=9D

=C2=A0

So, assuming that a SID is an IPv6 address, we must = figure out how it fits into the IPv6 addressing architecture. Questions lik= e the following must be answered:

=C2=A0

  • >From which special purpose prefixes [RFC 6890] =C2=A0can SIDs be drawn?<= /u>
  • Can a SID appear in the source address field of an IPv6 packet?

=C2=A0

So far, the co-authors have avoided such issues.<= /u>

=C2=A0

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Ron

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

From: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2019 6:43 PM
To: Ron Bonica <rbonica@juniper.net>
Cc: Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com>; Alexandre P= etrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>; SPRING WG <spring@ietf.org>; Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>; Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril) <pcamaril@cisco.com>; Mar= k Smith <mar= kzzzsmith@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [spring] 64-bit locators

=C2=A0

Hey Ron,

=C2=A0

> Leaving both chickens and eggs in the hen house= =E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6..=C2=A0=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Indeed ... after all it is not Easter Time !=C2=A0

=C2=A0

> Only one answer can be correct=C2=A0=F0=9F=98=89= =C2=A0=C2=A0

=C2=A0

To me this is very obvious ...=C2=A0

=C2=A0

SID is NOT an IPv6 address. Part of the SID is a loc= ator which is used for vanilla IPv6 forwarding (based on IPv6 routing prefi= xes), but that is all this 128 bit string has in common with IPv6.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Merry SID-less Christmas,
R.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

On Sat, Dec 21, 2019 at 9:32 PM Ron Bonica <rbonica@juniper.net= > wrote:

Robert,

=C2=A0

Leaving both chickens and eggs in the hen house=E2= =80=A6=E2=80=A6..

=C2=A0

We have never explicitly stated whether a SID *is= * and IPv6 address or *merely resembles* an IPv6 address. Which = is it?

=C2=A0

Hint: This is a multiple choice question. Only one a= nswer can be correct =F0=9F=98= =89

=C2=A0

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Happy Holidays,

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Ro= n

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Juniper Business Use Only<= u>

_______________________________________________
spring mailing list
spring@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
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boundary="_000_BN7PR05MB393899B40E06055BCEE73B13AE270BN7PR05MB3938namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: bd62c2e9-09bd-4473-27bb-08d78d10117a X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 30 Dec 2019 10:07:24.7356 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: 7c2jaDpwLOSDGdjjSbTHQMO1ysv2oHGNh3XM+0vqIDaXOfhMozoByRZynCgipeW77eNUZx+2EdhtPjXLRjp+ww== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN7PR05MB4001 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.95,18.0.572 definitions=2019-12-30_02:2019-12-27,2019-12-30 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_spam_notspam policy=outbound_spam score=0 spamscore=0 mlxlogscore=683 impostorscore=0 mlxscore=0 suspectscore=0 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 phishscore=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 clxscore=1015 lowpriorityscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-1910280000 definitions=main-1912300093 Archived-At: Subject: [spring] draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming: Relative advantages of SRv6 X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2019 10:07:29 -0000 --_000_BN7PR05MB393899B40E06055BCEE73B13AE270BN7PR05MB3938namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Pablo, Would you consider adding a short section to the draft explaining the relat= ive advantages of SRv6 over SR-MPLS? This section would explain why an netw= ork operator would deploy SRv6 instead of SR-MPLS. = Ron Juniper Business Use Only --_000_BN7PR05MB393899B40E06055BCEE73B13AE270BN7PR05MB3938namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Pablo,

 

Would you consider adding a short section to the dra= ft explaining the relative advantages of SRv6 over SR-MPLS? This section wo= uld explain why an network operator would deploy SRv6 instead of SR-MPLS.

 

         &nb= sp;            =             &nb= sp;            =             &nb= sp;            =             &nb= sp;    Ron

 


Juniper Business= Use Only

--_000_BN7PR05MB393899B40E06055BCEE73B13AE270BN7PR05MB3938namp_-- From nobody Mon Dec 30 02:33:43 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C23FD120133 for ; Mon, 30 Dec 2019 02:33:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.339 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.339 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_OBFUSCATE_05_10=0.26, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qJI56Ty-B_1M for ; Mon, 30 Dec 2019 02:33:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from cmccmta3.chinamobile.com (cmccmta3.chinamobile.com [221.176.66.81]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E334E12010C for ; Mon, 30 Dec 2019 02:33:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from spf.mail.chinamobile.com (unknown[172.16.121.11]) by rmmx-syy-dmz-app09-12009 (RichMail) with SMTP id 2ee95e09d252170-4422f; Mon, 30 Dec 2019 18:32:52 +0800 (CST) X-RM-TRANSID: 2ee95e09d252170-4422f X-RM-SPAM-FLAG: 00000000 Received: from chengweiqiang@chinamobile.com ( [10.2.53.197] ) by ajax-webmail-syy-appsvr06-11006 (Richmail) with HTTP; Mon, 30 Dec 2019 18:32:52 +0800 (CST) Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2019 18:32:52 +0800 (CST) From: =?utf-8?B?56iL5Lyf5by6?= To: rbonica , SPRING WG Message-ID: <2afe5e09d0735c7-00013.Richmail.00000020340441210951@chinamobile.com> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_135090_1609875975.1577701972122" X-Priority: 3 X-RM-TRANSID: 2afe5e09d0735c7-00013 X-RM-OA-ENC-TYPE: 0 X-RM-FontColor: 0 X-CLIENT-INFO: X-TIMING=0&X-MASSSENT=0&X-SENSITIVE=0 X-Mailer: Richmail_Webapp(V2.0.27) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming: Relativeadvantages of SRv6 X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2019 10:33:42 -0000 ------=_Part_135090_1609875975.1577701972122 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi,I agree with Ron. B.R. Weiqiang Cheng =20 ----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E6=96=87----=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA=EF= =BC=9ARon Bonica =E6=94=B6=E4=BB= =B6=E4=BA=BA=EF=BC=9ASPRING WG =E6=8A=84=E3=80=80=E9=80= =81: (=E6=97=A0)=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4=EF=BC=9A2019-12-30 18:= 07:24=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98=EF=BC=9A[spring] draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-pro= gramming: Relativeadvantages of SRv6 =20 Pablo, =20 Would you consider adding a short section to the draft explaining the relat= ive advantages of SRv6 over SR-MPLS? This section would explain why an netw= ork operator would deploy SRv6 instead of SR-MPLS. =20 = Ron =20 =20 Juniper Business Use Only ------=_Part_135090_1609875975.1577701972122 Content-Type: text/html;charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,
I agree with Ron.

B.R.

Weiqiang Cheng

 
--= --=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E6=96=87----
=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6= =E4=BA=BA=EF=BC=9ARon Bonica  <rbonica=3D40junip= er.net@dmarc.ietf.org>
=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA=EF=BC=9A<= /strong>SPRING WG  <spring@ietf.org>
=E6= =8A=84=E3=80=80=E9=80=81: (=E6=97=A0)
=E5=8F=91=E9=80= =81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4=EF=BC=9A2019-12-30 18:07:24
=E4= =B8=BB=E9=A2=98=EF=BC=9A[spring] draft-ietf-spring-srv6-netwo= rk-programming: Relativeadvantages of SRv6

   

Pablo,

 

Would you consider adding a short section to the draft explaining t= he relative advantages of SRv6 over SR-MPLS? This section would explain why= an network operator would deploy SRv6 instead of SR-MPLS.

 

      &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;       Ron

 


Juniper Business Use Only

------=_Part_135090_1609875975.1577701972122-- From nobody Mon Dec 30 03:15:59 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AD92120144 for ; Mon, 30 Dec 2019 03:15:57 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=raszuk.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id doHw07LlzulK for ; Mon, 30 Dec 2019 03:15:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qk1-x72e.google.com (mail-qk1-x72e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::72e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5ED0D12013B for ; Mon, 30 Dec 2019 03:15:55 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qk1-x72e.google.com with SMTP id z76so26380974qka.2 for ; Mon, 30 Dec 2019 03:15:55 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=raszuk.net; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=D7zHg7cJo9kE/TWSekNIqvhIFE/jVOoMsWtHh6zoOz0=; b=Z+YptL0f4rFAmePrjakCVlAAhodDMS8u5y/4JU2smssJHS6TPQvY+PfAq9UHaz8q4Z gK7sY0hd54ua/azm49JH27PKP3LoErPB+uiMK0G8cwhnGp5m+49TK++Qzj8XSyYTciEE pWdUyHL66LJjHQgi6xFfEbsqiNRzEr7ghvbyhVTRdmUI6q0OwEtQiPXiEaQeb9x6uGhj s+3eAHXpWQf5Ks05f88RXulmH3lYqvSmRAB/2CkO2VzehqxH/gE+clhHPa1ZDDTbk6AE NAt7pXTxGO2YepXK2aqwV/yE+XcMg+bemuhUVS2KusziDNvNOmx5VhaWSOtPsMfgFOME OQvQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=D7zHg7cJo9kE/TWSekNIqvhIFE/jVOoMsWtHh6zoOz0=; b=IK/20RAzij6TsySY+GSPx3hW75xZmAtGovRQvRiEsiK9qzj4WcyrgJ2dQkqknMtTKB WCCeeziyDpb/kqB6ZTud12OZeXfAk4c4w7IbPLWKMFqN2DmmucTOqaYl0xAVfwD0ApWG rlhNY0t8pFg+sXdR5uZrKBUlcMFdTskFb172ORcv8wrpm3PAlbH4WXyvQrKDSK3JavRM dpKh4ZzA4A+wd77D2jCFOMoOsy6RsLRouQ1lnBriWnUy45NwNQCuXRO4eMb0FReBdAGg 3JAQ4ZDYa3fhsobwVlEU08WZVCMFMJQ3o6r5+iYj7R2LXFWQvvZCJo8mfCzhRq88995W SvdA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVpmZtWW98diHWMsYVn02qy1fM5EWYcjIVJ9Uf6qsYLjrToaT7y o1F2O0ALlSeG6pY5tKKpXLEnjc74BDzcs+QSsl4qNw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzNdEIR8+/uSwjLPTtCFw7dcdwFdRPF0Iw8sJwJEW6vEnBtfH6jbdtxR46vbdJbktgfhHQMfXaAUWfd4rqKpyM= X-Received: by 2002:ae9:e887:: with SMTP id a129mr52430505qkg.465.1577704554266; Mon, 30 Dec 2019 03:15:54 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Robert Raszuk Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2019 12:15:42 +0100 Message-ID: To: Ron Bonica Cc: SPRING WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000008495ef059ae9f7ab" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming: Relative advantages of SRv6 X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2019 11:15:57 -0000 --0000000000008495ef059ae9f7ab Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Ron, How about instead of jumping into the middle of SR piece first focus on more fundamental comparison of IP transport vs MPLS transport in a network ? Do you still believe that the concept of domain wide flooding of host routes and labels attached to it - be it /32 or /128 prefixes is a wise thing ? For years MPLS world struggled with it ... and it still hurts in many ways today. Instead of nicely summarized areas or regions where you advertise single IGP summary out, when your SPF is very small (and its timers can be very aggressive) you are flooding within or across continents all of the hosts routes from 1000s of routers slowing the entire network down. That's just sick network architecture to me. And the only reason for doing it ... Your transport label is not summarizable ! For other hints pls take a look at RFC 4023 & RFC 7510 :). Do you really see any value to copy text from those drafts into subject document ? I do not. Cheers, R. PS. Once we first agree on the proper network transport - only then there is time to focus on service level discussions. On Mon, Dec 30, 2019 at 11:07 AM Ron Bonica wrote: > Pablo, > > > > Would you consider adding a short section to the draft explaining the > relative advantages of SRv6 over SR-MPLS? This section would explain why an > network operator would deploy SRv6 instead of SR-MPLS. > > > > > Ron > > > > Juniper Business Use Only > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > --0000000000008495ef059ae9f7ab Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Ron,

How about instead of jumping in= to the middle of SR piece first focus on more fundamental comparison of IP = transport vs MPLS transport in a network ?

Do you = still believe that the concept of domain wide flooding of host routes and l= abels attached to it - be it /32 or /128 prefixes is a wise thing ?=C2=A0

For=C2=A0years MPLS world struggled=C2=A0with it ..= . and it still hurts in many ways today.=C2=A0

Ins= tead of nicely summarized areas or regions where you advertise single IGP s= ummary out, when your SPF is very small (and its timers can be very aggress= ive) you are flooding within or across continents all of the hosts routes f= rom 1000s of routers slowing the entire network down. That's just sick = network architecture to me. And the only reason for doing it ... Your trans= port label is not summarizable !=C2=A0

For other h= ints pls take a look at=C2=A0RFC 4023 &=C2=A0RFC 7510 :).=C2=A0

Do you really see any value to copy text from those draft= s into subject document ? I do not.=C2=A0

Cheers,<= /div>
R.

PS. Once we first agree on the proper= network transport - only then there is time to focus on service level disc= ussions.=C2=A0


On Mon, Dec 30, 2019 at 11:07 AM Ron Bon= ica <rbonica=3D40juniper= .net@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:

Pablo,

=C2=A0

Would you consider adding a short section to the dra= ft explaining the relative advantages of SRv6 over SR-MPLS? This section wo= uld explain why an network operator would deploy SRv6 instead of SR-MPLS.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Ron

=C2=A0


Juniper Business Use Only

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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Robert, We should probably let the authors decide if that is part of the answer to = my question. = Ron From: Robert Raszuk Sent: Monday, December 30, 2019 6:16 AM To: Ron Bonica Cc: SPRING WG Subject: Re: [spring] draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming: Relative = advantages of SRv6 Hi Ron, How about instead of jumping into the middle of SR piece first focus on mor= e fundamental comparison of IP transport vs MPLS transport in a network ? Do you still believe that the concept of domain wide flooding of host route= s and labels attached to it - be it /32 or /128 prefixes is a wise thing ? For years MPLS world struggled with it .... and it still hurts in many ways= today. Instead of nicely summarized areas or regions where you advertise single IG= P summary out, when your SPF is very small (and its timers can be very aggr= essive) you are flooding within or across continents all of the hosts route= s from 1000s of routers slowing the entire network down. That's just sick n= etwork architecture to me. And the only reason for doing it ... Your transp= ort label is not summarizable ! For other hints pls take a look at RFC 4023 & RFC 7510 :). Do you really see any value to copy text from those drafts into subject doc= ument ? I do not. Cheers, R. PS. Once we first agree on the proper network transport - only then there i= s time to focus on service level discussions. On Mon, Dec 30, 2019 at 11:07 AM Ron Bonica > wrote: Pablo, Would you consider adding a short section to the draft explaining the relat= ive advantages of SRv6 over SR-MPLS? This section would explain why an netw= ork operator would deploy SRv6 instead of SR-MPLS. = Ron Juniper Business Use Only _______________________________________________ spring mailing list spring@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring Juniper Business Use Only --_000_BN7PR05MB393849548B10852E021EB9D2AE270BN7PR05MB3938namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Robert,

 

We should probably let the authors decide if that is= part of the answer to my question.

 

        &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;     Ron

 

From: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>=
Sent: Monday, December 30, 2019 6:16 AM
To: Ron Bonica <rbonica@juniper.net>
Cc: SPRING WG <spring@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [spring] draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming: Re= lative advantages of SRv6

 

Hi Ron,

 

How about instead of jumping into the middle of SR p= iece first focus on more fundamental comparison of IP transport vs MPLS tra= nsport in a network ?

 

Do you still believe that the concept of domain wide= flooding of host routes and labels attached to it - be it /32 or /128 pref= ixes is a wise thing ? 

 

For years MPLS world struggled with it ...= . and it still hurts in many ways today. 

 

Instead of nicely summarized areas or regions where = you advertise single IGP summary out, when your SPF is very small (and its = timers can be very aggressive) you are flooding within or across continents= all of the hosts routes from 1000s of routers slowing the entire network down. That's just sick network archi= tecture to me. And the only reason for doing it ... Your transport label is= not summarizable ! 

 

For other hints pls take a look at RFC 4023 &am= p; RFC 7510 :). 

 

Do you really see any value to copy text from those = drafts into subject document ? I do not. 

 

Cheers,

R.

 

PS. Once we first agree on the proper network transp= ort - only then there is time to focus on service level discussions. <= o:p>

 

 

On Mon, Dec 30, 2019 at 11:07 AM Ron Bonica <rbon= ica=3D40juniper..net@dmarc.= ietf.org> wrote:

Pablo,

 

Would you consider adding a short section to the draft explaining = the relative advantages of SRv6 over SR-MPLS? This section would explain wh= y an network operator would deploy SRv6 instead of SR-MPLS.

 

            = ;            &n= bsp;            = ;            &n= bsp;            = ;            &n= bsp;            = ;  Ron

 

 

Juniper Business Use Only=

_______________________________________________
spring mailing list
spring@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spr= ing

 

Juniper Business Use Only

--_000_BN7PR05MB393849548B10852E021EB9D2AE270BN7PR05MB3938namp_-- From nobody Mon Dec 30 05:40:48 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F50B12003E for ; Mon, 30 Dec 2019 05:40:46 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=raszuk.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LJCJfni5V3VB for ; Mon, 30 Dec 2019 05:40:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qt1-x833.google.com (mail-qt1-x833.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::833]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7E8F0120013 for ; Mon, 30 Dec 2019 05:40:44 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qt1-x833.google.com with SMTP id g1so22718038qtr.13 for ; Mon, 30 Dec 2019 05:40:44 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=raszuk.net; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=yfW19Di11yXlHGF2dtTnEva2owLsoTQdMD007tN408o=; b=CknJEmTb2pdha7tCCz2+Dl40Wa1TWs7QYIOpw/lkyW8WLWkUu/O+LeNYBmv49vzm4w /CIkdBjOoMTmsInwM81YrRHN37JHkmknD3bQWlhljqgjmzetbi2ARdCqB7sRX+/C7toQ ITC1LFSrjXJhMmLhpBOj/L63K4U+LF8I50Ao6tO2eNMuPjyHY8h1hBJ7i7K295o8HcKF Wib9CpnH/PUd0w02bkx6PIggEbaUvJIFJPkHcxdGYPeYCbiOPZtn+kZJSGa4CNFQimWg 6PasNIIzLxkUJJLxpz0qNZnlYpynWoqS8X/wrmVgO+SksIDrmB5tw4LfFmZRqnXl5Nax EKjg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=yfW19Di11yXlHGF2dtTnEva2owLsoTQdMD007tN408o=; b=X636RQ0TWI/KhktxR0JlJm1UZ9tbWkacEAxjbe5pxoljDIjGFhj7HvF4T+cM4XSiNB n+E0RxeXuX5crAd0WUDcjIFwiz4k7KiLPa8U4eGmyI+QNkjRScpNj6OxKS6cMU2stv6A 1vDmo+1YvbVdCuUfqJYsYLsGy7s/CDfGDr5h54znH/kp/rDwHiqrl2kY09iFUC1raOlS +CC7aYBYm1Y1DbtN4wq/fxDAvU4xAXqMOM2x/AeY8+AibtXDf0lhyXqYSw0izjEW8AOF Hp5MP2yGEYhDHj4K9vR5O+7AH9biBWo7fBbCqKQoYh0eGfZFQ1ULoa6F9HzC1yB7YKYZ X91A== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVwKRJdelIhS06GZyAl4M681VcnUE7Nc88tRKGroTerj2y193e8 fC9Fmx4FrSjz0GTZZ/N5ivyJZYligHkTKqRoZHLJlw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyiJOGWRWX/7e4WatK8NTtfnTy0RqqXponMHO6Wqs7p6HvxZEiAOjiN9PvcqOp9fncdDDAHHsT1yHiXUHFgvZ8= X-Received: by 2002:ac8:3703:: with SMTP id o3mr48207014qtb.208.1577713243517; Mon, 30 Dec 2019 05:40:43 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Robert Raszuk Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2019 14:40:32 +0100 Message-ID: To: Ron Bonica Cc: SPRING WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000700331059aebfdab" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming: Relative advantages of SRv6 X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2019 13:40:46 -0000 --000000000000700331059aebfdab Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Ron, I beg your pardon, but what are you trying to say? Isn't this a WG document now and *any* WG member is fully entitled to comment on any question asked or point being raised ? Leave alone formal document contributor. Are you saying that answers from those listed on top of the draft carries more weight ? Is this some new IETF process you are trying to define here ? Once document transitions to WG doc status authors who own src are becoming just editors with the obligation to incorporate WG suggested changes which got approved via rough consensus as judged by chairs. Are you questioning that too ? Thx, R. On Mon, Dec 30, 2019 at 1:19 PM Ron Bonica wrote: > Robert, > > > > We should probably let the authors decide if that is part of the answer to > my question. > > > > > Ron > > --000000000000700331059aebfdab Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Ron,

I beg=C2=A0your pardon,= but what are you trying to=C2=A0say?=C2=A0

Isn= 9;t this a WG document now and *any* WG member is fully entitled to comment= =C2=A0on any question asked or point=C2=A0being raised ?=20 Leave alone formal document contributor.=C2=A0

Are= you saying that answers from those listed on top of the draft carries more= weight ? Is this some new IETF process you are trying to define here ?=C2= =A0

Once document transitions to WG doc status aut= hors who own src are becoming=C2=A0just editors with the=C2=A0obligation to= incorporate WG suggested changes which got approved via rough consensus as= judged by chairs. Are you questioning that too ?=C2=A0

Thx,
R.

On Mon, Dec 30, 2019 at 1:19 PM Ron Bonica <<= a href=3D"mailto:rbonica@juniper.net">rbonica@juniper.net> wrote:

Robert,

=C2=A0

We should probably let the authors decide if that is= part of the answer to my question.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Ron

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boundary="_000_BN7PR05MB393811632AA9BAA112FDF26CAE270BN7PR05MB3938namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 50c1cde5-c6ac-4038-f996-08d78d464333 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 30 Dec 2019 16:35:20.8572 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: HctcklcVXclUP+nqaF8y5S5faqszXf7NB12hqSInUFpfy98B+Hu0AANUAnKNFTSRYqs/t+kkPBkY6SKxyphSmQ== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN7PR05MB5890 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.95,18.0.572 definitions=2019-12-30_05:2019-12-27,2019-12-30 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_spam_notspam policy=outbound_spam score=0 suspectscore=0 mlxscore=0 priorityscore=1501 lowpriorityscore=0 malwarescore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 clxscore=1015 adultscore=0 phishscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-1910280000 definitions=main-1912300149 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [spring] draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming: Relative advantages of SRv6 X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2019 16:35:26 -0000 --_000_BN7PR05MB393811632AA9BAA112FDF26CAE270BN7PR05MB3938namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Robert, I just realized that you are a contributor. So, I will take that as an invi= tation to contribute my two cents. Please stand by. It will take an hour or two to craft a well-considered res= ponse and it may not be ready before I shut down for the holiday. = Happy New Year, = Ron From: Robert Raszuk Sent: Monday, December 30, 2019 8:41 AM To: Ron Bonica Cc: SPRING WG Subject: Re: [spring] draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming: Relative = advantages of SRv6 Ron, I beg your pardon, but what are you trying to say? Isn't this a WG document now and *any* WG member is fully entitled to comme= nt on any question asked or point being raised ? Leave alone formal documen= t contributor. Are you saying that answers from those listed on top of the draft carries m= ore weight ? Is this some new IETF process you are trying to define here ? Once document transitions to WG doc status authors who own src are becoming= just editors with the obligation to incorporate WG suggested changes which= got approved via rough consensus as judged by chairs. Are you questioning = that too ? Thx, R. On Mon, Dec 30, 2019 at 1:19 PM Ron Bonica > wrote: Robert, We should probably let the authors decide if that is part of the answer to = my question. = Ron Juniper Business Use Only --_000_BN7PR05MB393811632AA9BAA112FDF26CAE270BN7PR05MB3938namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Robert,

 

I just realized that you are a contributor. So, I wi= ll take that as an invitation to contribute my two cents.

 

Please stand by. It will take an hour or two to craf= t a well-considered response and it may not be ready before I shut down for= the holiday.

 

        &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;        Happy New Year,<= /p>

        &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           Ron<= /o:p>

 

From: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>=
Sent: Monday, December 30, 2019 8:41 AM
To: Ron Bonica <rbonica@juniper.net>
Cc: SPRING WG <spring@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [spring] draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming: Re= lative advantages of SRv6

 

Ron,

 

I beg your pardon, but what are you trying to&n= bsp;say? 

 

Isn't this a WG document now and *any* WG member is = fully entitled to comment on any question asked or point being ra= ised ? Leave alone formal document contributor. 

 

Are you saying that answers from those listed on top= of the draft carries more weight ? Is this some new IETF process you are t= rying to define here ? 

 

Once document transitions to WG doc status authors w= ho own src are becoming just editors with the obligation to incor= porate WG suggested changes which got approved via rough consensus as judge= d by chairs. Are you questioning that too ? 

 

Thx,
R.

 

On Mon, Dec 30, 2019 at 1:19 PM Ron Bonica <rbonica@juniper.net> wrote:

Robert,

 

We should probably let the authors decide if that is part of the a= nswer to my question.

 

           =             &nb= sp;            =             &nb= sp;            =             &nb= sp;   Ron

 

Juniper Business Use Only

--_000_BN7PR05MB393811632AA9BAA112FDF26CAE270BN7PR05MB3938namp_--


On Mon, 16 Dec 2019, 21:07 Ketan Talaulikar (ketant), = <ketant@cisco.com> wrote:
=

Hi Mark,

=C2=A0

Could you share references which says it is il= legal to refer to 0.0.0.0 or :: as IP addresses?

=C2=A0

Many (if not most) implementations use these r= epresentations of IP addresses when provisioning a default static route and= there is nothing wrong with doing so.

=C2=A0

The link you shared previously that indicated = an issue because someone was using these zero addresses as destination IP i= n the packets. That would be an incorrect analogy since there is no such pr= oposal in this document.

I read "end point" as a synonym for "destination&q= uot;. I don't see how it could be describing anything else.

E.g., a tunnel "end point"= ; IP address identifies where a tunnel finishes, and that=C2=A0 is going re= sult in that IP address placed in an outer tunnel packet's destination = address field at some point in time.

A destination address identifies the point at the end (end poi= nt) of a packet's path across the network. (In RFC8200 this is always a= receiving host function, per RFC8200's definition of host and router.)=

0.0.0.0 and ::0 are pro= hibited destination or end point addresses as the don't identify one - = they're the 'unspecified' addresses.
If, as Robert said, you're describing routes o= r prefixes, then that is the terminology that should be used.

Supplying the prefix length in all in= stances would also make it much clearer that routes are being described.

Regards,
Mark.




=C2=A0

Thanks,

Ketan

=C2=A0

From: Mark Smith <markzzzsmith@gmail.com>
Sent: 16 December 2019 12:27
To: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com>
Cc: SPRING WG <spring@ietf.org>; i-d-announce@ietf.org=
Subject: Re: [spring] I-D Action: draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-= policy-06.txt

=C2=A0

=C2=A0<= /p>

On Mon, 16 Dec 2019, 16:43 Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)= , <ketant@cisco.com> wrote:

Hi Mark,

The draft talks about "destination of the policy" as in the tail-= end node of the SR Policy. It does not talk about the destination IP addres= s in the packet.

You can consider this as a "default policy" on similar lines as a= default route.

Please see the section below which will cover one of the use-cases for stee= ring over such SR policies to the null endpoint.
https://tools.i= etf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-policy-06#section-8.8.1<= br>
Hope that clarifies.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

I don't think it does.

=C2=A0

If this text is true - "The endpoint

=C2=A0 =C2=A0is specified as an IPv4 or IPv6 address" - then thos= e are illegal IPv4 and IPv6 addresses.

=C2=A0

If these are not being used as IPv4 or IPv6 addresses, then they canno= t be referred to as IPv4 or IPv6 addresses. It is confusing and inaccurate = if they are.

=C2=A0


Thanks,
Ketan

-----Original Message-----
From: spring <spring-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Mark Smi= th
Sent: 16 December 2019 06:36
To: SPRING WG <spring@ietf.org>
Cc: i-d-announce@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [spring] I-D Action: draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-policy-= 06.txt

"The endpoint indicates the destination of the policy.=C2=A0 The endpo= int
=C2=A0 =C2=A0is specified as an IPv4 or IPv6 address and is expected to be = unique
=C2=A0 =C2=A0in the domain.=C2=A0 In a specific case (refer to Section 8.8.= 1), the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0endpoint can be the null address (0.0.0.0 for IPv4, ::0 for IP= v6)."

Per Internet Standard 3 / RFC 1122, 0.0.0.0 is an illegal IPv4 destination = address.*

Per RFC 4291, ::0 is an illegal IPv6 destination address.


Regards,
Mark.


*People doing tricky things with 0.0.0.0 has cost me and a past employer 2 = weeks of needless troubleshooting, delaying a product/service launch.

http://lists.ausnog.net/pipermail/ausn= og/2017-July/039402.html


On Mon, 16 Dec 2019 at 11:08, <internet-drafts@ietf.org> wr= ote:
>
>
> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts dir= ectories.
> This draft is a work item of the Source Packet Routing in Networking W= G of the IETF.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Title=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0: Segment Routing Policy Architecture
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Authors=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0: Clarence Filsfils
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Siva Sivabalan
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Daniel Voyer
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Alex Bogdanov
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Paul Mattes
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Filename=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 := draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-policy-06.txt
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Pages=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0: 35
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Date=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 : 2019-12-15
>
> Abstract:
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Segment Routing (SR) allows a headend node to steer a pac= ket flow
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 along any path.=C2=A0 Intermediate per-flow states are el= iminated thanks
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 to source routing.=C2=A0 The headend node steers a flow i= nto an SR Policy.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 The header of a packet steered in an SR Policy is augment= ed with an
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 ordered list of segments associated with that SR Policy.= =C2=A0 This
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 document details the concepts of SR Policy and steering i= nto an SR
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Policy.
>
>
>
> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-pol<= br> > icy/
>
> There are also htmlized versions available at:
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-policy-0<= br> > 6
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-spring-segment-routin<= br> > g-policy-06
>
> A diff from the previous version is available at:
> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-po
> licy-06
>
>
> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of
> submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
>
> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
>
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