From syslog-sec-bounces@willers.employees.org Mon Jun 14 13:55:52 2004 Received: from willers.employees.org (willers.employees.org [192.83.249.36]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA17768 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 2004 13:55:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from willers.employees.org (localhost.employees.org [127.0.0.1]) by willers.employees.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F3225C9DE; Mon, 14 Jun 2004 10:55:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: syslog-sec@employees.org Delivered-To: syslog-sec@employees.org Received: from sj-iport-3.cisco.com (sj-iport-3-in.cisco.com [171.71.176.72]) by willers.employees.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F9695C7C7 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 2004 10:55:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sj-core-1.cisco.com (171.71.177.237) by sj-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 14 Jun 2004 10:57:34 +0000 X-BrightmailFiltered: true Received: from edison.cisco.com (edison.cisco.com [171.71.180.109]) by sj-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i5EHtmIn017093 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 2004 10:55:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (clonvick@localhost) by edison.cisco.com (8.8.6 (PHNE_14041)/CISCO.SERVER.1.2) with ESMTP id KAA25635 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 2004 10:55:48 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 10:55:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Chris Lonvick To: syslog-sec@employees.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [Syslog-sec] IETF 60 Meeting and WG Mailing List X-BeenThere: syslog-sec@www.employees.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.4 Precedence: list List-Id: syslog-sec.www.employees.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: syslog-sec-bounces@willers.employees.org Errors-To: syslog-sec-bounces@willers.employees.org Hi Folks, I've been trying to get the IETF people to set up a WG mailing list for us to replace the one on employees.org. I believe that I've sent them all of the information but I havn't heard back from them in a few weeks. However, it appears that employees.org has gotten a new lease on life and so I'll continue here until I get something going on the IETF machines. I've had a discussion with Anton and Rainer. It looks like both IDs are getting close to being finished. I've asked them to wrap up any remaining issues and let's get this into WG Last Call. We need to do a nit check but I'm very hopeful that we can get them to the IESG in a few weeks. I think that our time will be better spent in this work rather than in preparing for the meeting in San Diego. As such, I'd like to propose that we not have a meeting in San Diego. Please watch for the new IDs to be posted and please comment upon them. Thanks, Chris _______________________________________________ Syslog-sec mailing list Syslog-sec@www.employees.org http://www.employees.org/mailman/listinfo/syslog-sec From syslog-sec-bounces@willers.employees.org Wed Jun 16 08:54:51 2004 Received: from willers.employees.org (willers.employees.org [192.83.249.36]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA23832 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 2004 08:54:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from willers.employees.org (localhost.employees.org [127.0.0.1]) by willers.employees.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F14325C93C; Wed, 16 Jun 2004 03:52:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: syslog-sec@employees.org Delivered-To: syslog-sec@employees.org Received: from gab54-1.com (unknown [193.136.195.3]) by willers.employees.org (Postfix) with SMTP id A6EDB5C917 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 2004 03:52:39 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 11:58:44 +0000 To: "Syslog-sec" From: "Clonvick" Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="--------flogzsfloheltkzejqlc" Subject: [Syslog-sec] Fax Message Received X-BeenThere: syslog-sec@www.employees.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.4 Precedence: list List-Id: syslog-sec.www.employees.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: syslog-sec-bounces@willers.employees.org Errors-To: syslog-sec-bounces@willers.employees.org ----------flogzsfloheltkzejqlc Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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Syslog-sec@www.employees.org http://www.employees.org/mailman/listinfo/syslog-sec ----------flogzsfloheltkzejqlc-- From syslog-sec-bounces@willers.employees.org Wed Jun 16 09:08:14 2004 Received: from willers.employees.org (willers.employees.org [192.83.249.36]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA24082 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 2004 09:08:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from willers.employees.org (localhost.employees.org [127.0.0.1]) by willers.employees.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C4E15C8F2; Wed, 16 Jun 2004 02:45:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: syslog-sec@employees.org Delivered-To: syslog-sec@employees.org Received: from mail.hq.adiscon.com (mail.hq.adiscon.com [217.6.190.188]) by willers.employees.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9A335C8E0 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 2004 02:44:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.hq.adiscon.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31E709C76B for ; Wed, 16 Jun 2004 11:55:11 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mail.hq.adiscon.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (grfdeb [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 26851-07 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 2004 11:54:00 +0200 (CEST) Received: from grfext.intern.adiscon.com (unknown [192.168.0.2]) by mail.hq.adiscon.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 7270C9C755 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 2004 11:54:00 +0200 (CEST) Received: from 172.19.0.5 by grfext.intern.adiscon.com (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Wed, 16 Jun 2004 11:43:47 +0200 Received: from grfint2.intern.adiscon.com ([172.19.0.6]) by grfint.intern.adiscon.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Wed, 16 Jun 2004 11:43:40 +0200 Subject: RE: [Syslog-sec] IETF 60 Meeting and WG Mailing List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 11:43:43 +0200 Message-ID: <577465F99B41C842AAFBE9ED71E70ABA5DC6@grfint2.intern.adiscon.com> Content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Thread-Topic: [Syslog-sec] IETF 60 Meeting and WG Mailing List Thread-Index: AcRSOO1puBwCArfXT3qJtfx2WjK3hQBPbB9g From: "Rainer Gerhards" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Jun 2004 09:43:40.0984 (UTC) FILETIME=[68105380:01C45386] X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p5 (Debian) at adiscon.com X-BeenThere: syslog-sec@www.employees.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.4 Precedence: list List-Id: syslog-sec.www.employees.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: syslog-sec-bounces@willers.employees.org Errors-To: syslog-sec-bounces@willers.employees.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Folks, a quick status update from my side. I've been out of office for quite a while and I am now coming back to real work (after a pile of email). I will create a new draft within the next 3 weeks or so. I'd really appreciate any more comments if there are. I will work through past comments soon. Rainer > -----Original Message----- > From: syslog-sec-bounces@www.employees.org=20 > [mailto:syslog-sec-bounces@www.employees.org] On Behalf Of=20 > Chris Lonvick > Sent: Monday, June 14, 2004 7:56 PM > To: syslog-sec@employees.org > Subject: [Syslog-sec] IETF 60 Meeting and WG Mailing List >=20 > Hi Folks, >=20 > I've been trying to get the IETF people to set up a WG=20 > mailing list for us > to replace the one on employees.org. I believe that I've=20 > sent them all of > the information but I havn't heard back from them in a few weeks. > However, it appears that employees.org has gotten a new lease=20 > on life and > so I'll continue here until I get something going on the IETF=20 > machines. >=20 > I've had a discussion with Anton and Rainer. It looks like=20 > both IDs are > getting close to being finished. I've asked them to wrap up=20 > any remaining > issues and let's get this into WG Last Call. We need to do a=20 > nit check > but I'm very hopeful that we can get them to the IESG in a=20 > few weeks. I > think that our time will be better spent in this work rather than in > preparing for the meeting in San Diego. As such, I'd like to=20 > propose that > we not have a meeting in San Diego. Please watch for the new=20 > IDs to be > posted and please comment upon them. >=20 > Thanks, > Chris > _______________________________________________ > Syslog-sec mailing list > Syslog-sec@www.employees.org > http://www.employees.org/mailman/listinfo/syslog-sec >=20 _______________________________________________ Syslog-sec mailing list Syslog-sec@www.employees.org http://www.employees.org/mailman/listinfo/syslog-sec From syslog-sec-bounces@willers.employees.org Wed Jun 16 10:56:13 2004 Received: from willers.employees.org (willers.employees.org [192.83.249.36]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA02762 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 2004 10:56:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from willers.employees.org (localhost.employees.org [127.0.0.1]) by willers.employees.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F7605C776; Wed, 16 Jun 2004 07:56:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: syslog-sec@employees.org Delivered-To: syslog-sec@employees.org Received: from sj-iport-3.cisco.com (sj-iport-3-in.cisco.com [171.71.176.72]) by willers.employees.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C90BC5C8A1 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 2004 07:56:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sj-core-5.cisco.com (171.71.177.238) by sj-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 16 Jun 2004 07:58:16 +0000 X-BrightmailFiltered: true Received: from flask.cisco.com (IDENT:mirapoint@flask.cisco.com [161.44.122.62]) by sj-core-5.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i5GEu8tV006802 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 2004 07:56:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aokmiansw2k ([161.44.64.231]) by flask.cisco.com (MOS 3.4.6-GR) with ESMTP id AJL51691; Wed, 16 Jun 2004 10:56:07 -0400 (EDT) From: "Anton Okmianski" To: Subject: RE: [Syslog-sec] IETF 60 Meeting and WG Mailing List Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 10:56:06 -0400 Message-ID: <000101c453b2$0dd6c6c0$e7402ca1@amer.cisco.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.5709 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <577465F99B41C842AAFBE9ED71E70ABA5DC6@grfint2.intern.adiscon.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4927.1200 X-BeenThere: syslog-sec@www.employees.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.4 Precedence: list List-Id: syslog-sec.www.employees.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: syslog-sec-bounces@willers.employees.org Errors-To: syslog-sec-bounces@willers.employees.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Here is my update on syslog-transport. After posting the last draft, I have not received any substantive comments. But I had quite a few on the pre-draft version. Seems like the draft satisfied all the concerns raised against the earlier versions. =20 Rainer & I talked about his concerns with doing fragmentation the way we do it now in transport. He would prefer to do it using structured content within syslog message like the earlier proposals or some other scheme that pushes the re-assembly on the log processor (analyzer) instead of every party in transmission (potentially including syslog relays).=20 I am not sure we reached complete consensus yet. But I think, with fragmentation being optional now (only required for messages over certain size), both approaches can co-exist. People can use structured content as they please and break messages, or they could use a syslog transport implementation which supports fragmentation. Or just use small messages and forget about all of this. =20 Other than this, the syslog-transport draft is ready to go. Thanks, Anton. =20 > -----Original Message----- > From: syslog-sec-bounces@willers.employees.org=20 > [mailto:syslog-sec-bounces@willers.employees.org] On Behalf=20 > Of Rainer Gerhards > Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2004 5:44 AM > To: syslog-sec@employees.org > Subject: RE: [Syslog-sec] IETF 60 Meeting and WG Mailing List >=20 >=20 > Hi Folks, >=20 > a quick status update from my side. I've been out of office=20 > for quite a while and I am now coming back to real work=20 > (after a pile of email). I will create a new draft within the=20 > next 3 weeks or so. I'd really appreciate any more comments=20 > if there are. I will work through past comments soon. >=20 > Rainer >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: syslog-sec-bounces@www.employees.org > > [mailto:syslog-sec-bounces@www.employees.org] On Behalf Of=20 > > Chris Lonvick > > Sent: Monday, June 14, 2004 7:56 PM > > To: syslog-sec@employees.org > > Subject: [Syslog-sec] IETF 60 Meeting and WG Mailing List > >=20 > > Hi Folks, > >=20 > > I've been trying to get the IETF people to set up a WG > > mailing list for us > > to replace the one on employees.org. I believe that I've=20 > > sent them all of > > the information but I havn't heard back from them in a few weeks. > > However, it appears that employees.org has gotten a new lease=20 > > on life and > > so I'll continue here until I get something going on the IETF=20 > > machines. > >=20 > > I've had a discussion with Anton and Rainer. It looks like > > both IDs are > > getting close to being finished. I've asked them to wrap up=20 > > any remaining > > issues and let's get this into WG Last Call. We need to do a=20 > > nit check > > but I'm very hopeful that we can get them to the IESG in a=20 > > few weeks. I > > think that our time will be better spent in this work rather than in > > preparing for the meeting in San Diego. As such, I'd like to=20 > > propose that > > we not have a meeting in San Diego. Please watch for the new=20 > > IDs to be > > posted and please comment upon them. > >=20 > > Thanks, > > Chris > > _______________________________________________ > > Syslog-sec mailing list > > Syslog-sec@www.employees.org=20 > > http://www.employees.org/mailman/listinfo/syslog-sec > >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Syslog-sec mailing list > Syslog-sec@www.employees.org=20 > http://www.employees.org/mailman/listinfo/sysl> og-sec >=20 _______________________________________________ Syslog-sec mailing list Syslog-sec@www.employees.org http://www.employees.org/mailman/listinfo/syslog-sec From syslog-sec-bounces@willers.employees.org Wed Jun 16 11:41:41 2004 Received: from willers.employees.org (willers.employees.org [192.83.249.36]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA11806 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 2004 11:41:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from willers.employees.org (localhost.employees.org [127.0.0.1]) by willers.employees.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 577285C82B; Wed, 16 Jun 2004 08:40:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: syslog-sec@employees.org Delivered-To: syslog-sec@employees.org Received: from sccrmhc13.comcast.net (sccrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.202.64]) by willers.employees.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD3A15C826 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 2004 08:40:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from d55py901 (h00104b8ce2a3.ne.client2.attbi.com[24.128.104.220]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc13) with SMTP id <200406161539590160085ucqe>; Wed, 16 Jun 2004 15:39:59 +0000 From: "David B Harrington" To: "'Anton Okmianski'" , Subject: RE: [Syslog-sec] IETF 60 Meeting and WG Mailing List Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 11:39:43 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Thread-Index: AcRTshG7GNLGJnZmSieDPM3glwmWJgAAtc2A In-Reply-To: <000101c453b2$0dd6c6c0$e7402ca1@amer.cisco.com> Message-Id: <20040616154000.BD3A15C826@willers.employees.org> X-BeenThere: syslog-sec@www.employees.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.4 Precedence: list Reply-To: ietfdbh@comcast.net List-Id: syslog-sec.www.employees.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: syslog-sec-bounces@willers.employees.org Errors-To: syslog-sec-bounces@willers.employees.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, I have not reviewed the new drafts yet. I strongly dislike "standards" that say "do it however you want." A standard should standardize the behavior to be consistent and predictable. Therefore I would like to see us choose either application-layer-fragmentation or transport-layer-fragmentation, but not both. If the transport-layer-fragmentation to which you refer requires the transport layer to understand syslog messages in any way, or even require the transport layer to know that a given payload *is* a syslog message, that would be a violation of the layering principle, and would seem to be a bad choice. Short messages impose the least on both the sender and receiver implementations, and should be preferred unless short messages really cannot do the job adequately. Application-layer-fragmentation would seem to require the user/developer to do more work to fragment messages, rather than "passing the buck" to the transport layer. This might lead vendors to use shorter messages, where adeqaute, to avoid having to do the fragmentation, which I would view as a good thing. Using the 90/10 rule, I suggest making support for long/fragmented messages optional (despite my belief that standards shouldn't say "do what you want"). Most implementors will support short messages, and they will be adequate for 90% of users. For those 10% of device vendors who believe long messages are really important, and those 10% of receivers that believe supporting long messages is important, they can suffer the additional expense of supporting this at the application-layer, without forcing all implementations to support it. My $.02 dbh > -----Original Message----- > From: syslog-sec-bounces@www.employees.org > [mailto:syslog-sec-bounces@www.employees.org] On Behalf Of > Anton Okmianski > Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2004 10:56 AM > To: syslog-sec@employees.org > Subject: RE: [Syslog-sec] IETF 60 Meeting and WG Mailing List > > Here is my update on syslog-transport. > > After posting the last draft, I have not received any > substantive comments. But I had quite a few on the pre-draft > version. Seems like the draft satisfied all the concerns > raised against the earlier versions. > > Rainer & I talked about his concerns with doing fragmentation > the way we do it now in transport. He would prefer to do it > using structured content within syslog message like the > earlier proposals or some other scheme that pushes the > re-assembly on the log processor (analyzer) instead of every > party in transmission (potentially including syslog relays). > > I am not sure we reached complete consensus yet. But I think, > with fragmentation being optional now (only required for > messages over certain size), both approaches can co-exist. > People can use structured content as they please and break > messages, or they could use a syslog transport implementation > which supports fragmentation. Or just use small messages and > forget about all of this. > > Other than this, the syslog-transport draft is ready to go. > > Thanks, > Anton. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: syslog-sec-bounces@willers.employees.org > > [mailto:syslog-sec-bounces@willers.employees.org] On Behalf > Of Rainer > > Gerhards > > Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2004 5:44 AM > > To: syslog-sec@employees.org > > Subject: RE: [Syslog-sec] IETF 60 Meeting and WG Mailing List > > > > > > Hi Folks, > > > > a quick status update from my side. I've been out of office > for quite > > a while and I am now coming back to real work (after a pile > of email). > > I will create a new draft within the next 3 weeks or so. I'd really > > appreciate any more comments if there are. I will work through past > > comments soon. > > > > Rainer > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: syslog-sec-bounces@www.employees.org > > > [mailto:syslog-sec-bounces@www.employees.org] On Behalf Of Chris > > > Lonvick > > > Sent: Monday, June 14, 2004 7:56 PM > > > To: syslog-sec@employees.org > > > Subject: [Syslog-sec] IETF 60 Meeting and WG Mailing List > > > > > > Hi Folks, > > > > > > I've been trying to get the IETF people to set up a WG > mailing list > > > for us to replace the one on employees.org. I believe that I've > > > sent them all of the information but I havn't heard back > from them > > > in a few weeks. > > > However, it appears that employees.org has gotten a new lease on > > > life and so I'll continue here until I get something going on the > > > IETF machines. > > > > > > I've had a discussion with Anton and Rainer. It looks > like both IDs > > > are getting close to being finished. I've asked them to > wrap up any > > > remaining issues and let's get this into WG Last Call. > We need to > > > do a nit check but I'm very hopeful that we can get them > to the IESG > > > in a few weeks. I think that our time will be better > spent in this > > > work rather than > in > > > preparing for the meeting in San Diego. As such, I'd like to > > > propose that we not have a meeting in San Diego. Please > watch for > > > the new IDs to be posted and please comment upon them. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Chris > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Syslog-sec mailing list > > > Syslog-sec@www.employees.org > > > http://www.employees.org/mailman/listinfo/syslog-sec > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Syslog-sec mailing list > > Syslog-sec@www.employees.org > > http://www.employees.org/mailman/listinfo/sysl> og-sec > > > > _______________________________________________ > Syslog-sec mailing list > Syslog-sec@www.employees.org > http://www.employees.org/mailman/listinfo/syslog-sec > _______________________________________________ Syslog-sec mailing list Syslog-sec@www.employees.org http://www.employees.org/mailman/listinfo/syslog-sec From syslog-sec-bounces@willers.employees.org Wed Jun 16 13:35:59 2004 Received: from willers.employees.org (willers.employees.org [192.83.249.36]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA23766 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 2004 13:35:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from willers.employees.org (localhost.employees.org [127.0.0.1]) by willers.employees.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AF485C9C6; Wed, 16 Jun 2004 10:35:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: syslog-sec@employees.org Delivered-To: syslog-sec@employees.org Received: from sj-iport-5.cisco.com (sj-iport-5.cisco.com [171.68.10.87]) by willers.employees.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49ED95C8F5 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 2004 10:27:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sj-core-3.cisco.com (171.68.223.137) by sj-iport-5.cisco.com with ESMTP; 16 Jun 2004 10:29:00 -0700 X-BrightmailFiltered: true Received: from flask.cisco.com (IDENT:mirapoint@flask.cisco.com [161.44.122.62]) by sj-core-3.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i5GHRgsI027610; Wed, 16 Jun 2004 10:27:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aokmiansw2k ([161.44.64.231]) by flask.cisco.com (MOS 3.4.6-GR) with ESMTP id AJL67369; Wed, 16 Jun 2004 13:27:41 -0400 (EDT) From: "Anton Okmianski" To: , Subject: RE: [Syslog-sec] IETF 60 Meeting and WG Mailing List Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 13:27:41 -0400 Message-ID: <000001c453c7$3ae3ee30$e7402ca1@amer.cisco.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.5709 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <200406161539.i5GFd2ah004243@sj-inbound-2.cisco.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4927.1200 X-BeenThere: syslog-sec@www.employees.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.4 Precedence: list List-Id: syslog-sec.www.employees.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: syslog-sec-bounces@willers.employees.org Errors-To: syslog-sec-bounces@willers.employees.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable David: Thanks for the reply... I think for the most part we are on the same page. Comment below. > I have not reviewed the new drafts yet. >=20 > I strongly dislike "standards" that say "do it however you=20 > want." A standard should standardize the behavior to be=20 > consistent and predictable. Therefore I would like to see us=20 > choose either application-layer-fragmentation or=20 > transport-layer-fragmentation, but not both. I understand you point. Well, really, what I propose is not a bunch of options. Either use small messages or... Use syslog implementations which support fragmentation or... If you have good reasons not to the use above, you are on your own, but nothing prevents you from doing application-level fragmentation on client side, provided you know how to deal with these messages on the other side. So, the last option is possible, but is outside of our scope. =20 > If the transport-layer-fragmentation to which you refer=20 > requires the transport layer to understand syslog messages in=20 > any way, or even require the transport layer to know that a=20 > given payload *is* a syslog message, that would be a=20 > violation of the layering principle, and would seem to be a=20 > bad choice.=20 No, in current draft, current transport layer only needs to understand transport header, and it treats syslog messages as generic payload. Indeed, layer isolation is a key goal. This is also why I do not like the idea of copying syslog message header in all transport fragments. This would have allowed relay to make forwarding decision based on this data without re-assembly, but would require the transport layer to understand the payload (which has variable size fields).=20 > Short messages impose the least on both the sender and=20 > receiver implementations, and should be preferred unless=20 > short messages really cannot do the job adequately. Transport layer recommends short messages.=20 > Application-layer-fragmentation would seem to require the=20 > user/developer to do more work to fragment messages, rather=20 > than "passing the buck" to the transport layer. This might=20 > lead vendors to use shorter messages, where adequate, to=20 > avoid having to do the fragmentation, which I would view as a=20 > good thing.=20 Yes, but by that logic, if we make syslog hard to use, this may also encourage people to use something else altogether. I'd rather not create deliberate obstacles.=20 > Using the 90/10 rule, I suggest making support for=20 > long/fragmented messages optional (despite my belief that=20 > standards shouldn't say "do what you want").=20 It is optional in the transport. It is only required for messages over certain size and implementations are not required to support larger messages. If some application needs to send large messages, the administrators will have to ensure that it is deployed in an environment with appropriate implementations. Same thing as with UDP. Yeah, by protocol it supports 64k payload. But you better know that your client, server and all networking devices in between support these large messages. Until recently you have would have been hard pressed to find many combinations that would. =20 > Most=20 > implementors will support short messages, and they will be=20 > adequate for 90% of users. For those 10% of device vendors=20 > who believe long messages are really important, and those 10%=20 > of receivers that believe supporting long messages is=20 > important, they can suffer the additional expense of=20 > supporting this at the application-layer, without forcing all=20 > implementations to support it. I agree with 90-10 rule, but I have proposed a different way of dealing with the 10%. Basically, fragmentation is in the transport, but it is optional. I think this can ensure better interoperability because people are not going to have to invent application-specific fragmentation. Even if we standardize application-level fragmentation, the log analyzers would then need to be able to understand that. All of a sudden fragmentation creeps in deeper into various applications instead of being shielded in a some lower layer. > My $.02 Thanks! Anton.=20 >=20 > dbh >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: syslog-sec-bounces@www.employees.org > > [mailto:syslog-sec-bounces@www.employees.org] On Behalf Of=20 > > Anton Okmianski > > Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2004 10:56 AM > > To: syslog-sec@employees.org > > Subject: RE: [Syslog-sec] IETF 60 Meeting and WG Mailing List > >=20 > > Here is my update on syslog-transport. > >=20 > > After posting the last draft, I have not received any > > substantive comments. But I had quite a few on the pre-draft=20 > > version. Seems like the draft satisfied all the concerns=20 > > raised against the earlier versions. =20 > >=20 > > Rainer & I talked about his concerns with doing fragmentation > > the way we do it now in transport. He would prefer to do it=20 > > using structured content within syslog message like the=20 > > earlier proposals or some other scheme that pushes the=20 > > re-assembly on the log processor (analyzer) instead of every=20 > > party in transmission (potentially including syslog relays).=20 > >=20 > > I am not sure we reached complete consensus yet. But I think, > > with fragmentation being optional now (only required for=20 > > messages over certain size), both approaches can co-exist.=20 > > People can use structured content as they please and break=20 > > messages, or they could use a syslog transport implementation=20 > > which supports fragmentation. Or just use small messages and=20 > > forget about all of this. =20 > >=20 > > Other than this, the syslog-transport draft is ready to go. > >=20 > > Thanks, > > Anton. =20 > >=20 > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: syslog-sec-bounces@willers.employees.org > > > [mailto:syslog-sec-bounces@willers.employees.org] On Behalf > > Of Rainer > > > Gerhards > > > Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2004 5:44 AM > > > To: syslog-sec@employees.org > > > Subject: RE: [Syslog-sec] IETF 60 Meeting and WG Mailing List > > >=20 > > >=20 > > > Hi Folks, > > >=20 > > > a quick status update from my side. I've been out of office > > for quite > > > a while and I am now coming back to real work (after a pile > > of email). > > > I will create a new draft within the next 3 weeks or so.=20 > I'd really > > > appreciate any more comments if there are. I will work=20 > through past=20 > > > comments soon. > > >=20 > > > Rainer > > >=20 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: syslog-sec-bounces@www.employees.org > > > > [mailto:syslog-sec-bounces@www.employees.org] On Behalf Of Chris > > > > Lonvick > > > > Sent: Monday, June 14, 2004 7:56 PM > > > > To: syslog-sec@employees.org > > > > Subject: [Syslog-sec] IETF 60 Meeting and WG Mailing List > > > >=20 > > > > Hi Folks, > > > >=20 > > > > I've been trying to get the IETF people to set up a WG > > mailing list > > > > for us to replace the one on employees.org. I believe that I've > > > > sent them all of the information but I havn't heard back=20 > > from them > > > > in a few weeks. > > > > However, it appears that employees.org has gotten a new lease on > > > > life and so I'll continue here until I get something=20 > going on the=20 > > > > IETF machines. > > > >=20 > > > > I've had a discussion with Anton and Rainer. It looks > > like both IDs > > > > are getting close to being finished. I've asked them to > > wrap up any > > > > remaining issues and let's get this into WG Last Call. > > We need to > > > > do a nit check but I'm very hopeful that we can get them > > to the IESG > > > > in a few weeks. I think that our time will be better > > spent in this > > > > work rather than > > in > > > > preparing for the meeting in San Diego. As such, I'd like to > > > > propose that we not have a meeting in San Diego. Please=20 > > watch for > > > > the new IDs to be posted and please comment upon them. > > > >=20 > > > > Thanks, > > > > Chris > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Syslog-sec mailing list > > > > Syslog-sec@www.employees.org=20 > > > > http://www.employees.org/mailman/listinfo/syslog-sec > > > >=20 > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Syslog-sec mailing list > > > Syslog-sec@www.employees.org=20 > > > http://www.employees.org/mailman/listinfo/sysl> og-sec > > >=20 > >=20 > > _______________________________________________ > > Syslog-sec mailing list > > Syslog-sec@www.employees.org=20 > > http://www.employees.org/mailman/listinfo/syslog-sec > >=20 >=20 >=20 _______________________________________________ Syslog-sec mailing list Syslog-sec@www.employees.org http://www.employees.org/mailman/listinfo/syslog-sec From syslog-sec-bounces@willers.employees.org Thu Jun 17 07:55:15 2004 Received: from willers.employees.org (willers.employees.org [192.83.249.36]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA21326 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 2004 07:55:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from willers.employees.org (localhost.employees.org [127.0.0.1]) by willers.employees.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F25075C87F; Thu, 17 Jun 2004 04:55:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: syslog-sec@employees.org Delivered-To: syslog-sec@employees.org Received: from mail.hq.adiscon.com (mail.hq.adiscon.com [217.6.190.188]) by willers.employees.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E4D45C874 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 2004 04:55:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.hq.adiscon.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 463629C76B for ; Thu, 17 Jun 2004 14:05:31 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mail.hq.adiscon.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (grfdeb [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 28635-08 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 2004 14:04:23 +0200 (CEST) Received: from grfext.intern.adiscon.com (unknown [192.168.0.2]) by mail.hq.adiscon.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 961F09C761 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 2004 14:04:23 +0200 (CEST) Received: from 172.19.0.5 by grfext.intern.adiscon.com (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Thu, 17 Jun 2004 13:54:04 +0200 Received: from grfint2.intern.adiscon.com ([172.19.0.6]) by grfint.intern.adiscon.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Thu, 17 Jun 2004 13:53:59 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 13:53:59 +0200 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Message-ID: <577465F99B41C842AAFBE9ED71E70ABA5DF1@grfint2.intern.adiscon.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Thread-Topic: syslog fragmentation Thread-Index: AcRUYcbKiD7XA9H3TOyM79jYD1ZpKg== From: "Rainer Gerhards" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Jun 2004 11:53:59.0335 (UTC) FILETIME=[C693C370:01C45461] X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p5 (Debian) at adiscon.com Subject: [Syslog-sec] syslog fragmentation X-BeenThere: syslog-sec@www.employees.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.4 Precedence: list List-Id: syslog-sec.www.employees.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: syslog-sec-bounces@willers.employees.org Errors-To: syslog-sec-bounces@willers.employees.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi WG, I had some private conversation with Anton on the fragmentation, and as this is now being discussed on-list, I would like to share my points (Anton: sorry for some re-iteration). My initial use case for fragmentation is this: I *need* to support very occasional (1 out of 10,000 if not fewer) message that get *really* large. I don't think it is appropriate that any interim system needs to know this data all belongs to a single message. So I modelled something (the multi-part messages now removed from -protocol) that allows the sender to indicate that a message is only part of a larger entity, but nobody except the=20 a) sender b) log ANALYZER (endpoint) must be aware of the larger entity. This was meant as a way to ensure that even the largest size message can be pushed to the ANALYZER without the need for some interim system (even the recording syslogd!) to actually know everything about it. Actually, in this scheme each "fragment" of the multi-part message was a valid syslog message in its own right. Only if somebody wanted/needed the full message, that somebody could re-assemble it. So this was meant to provide a way to say "hey, here are more than one syslog message, but these all somehow belong together". Again, I was concerned about the FINAL recipient, not (necessarily) an interim system. I went into that schema, because many people on-list told us that they do not see any need at all for large messages (and in reality I very seldomly see message larger than 128 bytes). Anton, if I understood correctly, has a totally different use case, that is he needs to actually feed a single message through all interim systems and all of them must be aware of the full message. This, of course forces the interim systems to re-assemble the message, which obviously means more work to do and much more status keeping. The plus, of course, is that each interim system can act on the full message and base routing decision on it (if the administrator desires and the implementation supports such decisions). As Anton pointed out, there were also comments from others that such a functionality would be desirable. As in this approach each system MUST re-assmble the message, Anton obviously needs a low max message size, as otherwise an receiver may be easily overrun. So the maximum message size (IPv4) that can reliably be used is 507 byte, which will be sufficient in most cases. I remember that we also talked about requiring a transport to support at least 64K message size in -protocol (not yet in the draft). If so, I think this will be sufficient in 99,999% of the cases. But if we do that, we also force all -yet the minimalist - implementations to support fragmentation (and if we don't, we actually have max size of 507 bytes for "reliable" delivery). Anyhow, even with 64K, some of my use cases are in the remaining 0,001% range, so I need to find a way to use something like the previous multi-part messaging mechanism in order to deliver my data. Actually, this is not a big concern: it looks like a single-vendor issue and so we will most probably go ahead and use a vendor extension for this. Right now, I think we will actually use what formerly was in -protocol. I'd preferred to do it in a standard way, but I think it is not a big deal if a single vendor uses a specific approach for a quite uncommon problem. After all, this is why extensibility has been build into -protocol. Other than that, I have to admit that I do not like the idea of interim systems needing to re-assemble large-size message. Actually, I don't like the necessary real-time reassembly at all. I am not sure if this is in the simple spirit of syslog. This "feeling" is my remaining point on the current approach. Of course, I can easily go over it - but maybe somebody has a suggestion in this regard. Rainer _______________________________________________ Syslog-sec mailing list Syslog-sec@www.employees.org http://www.employees.org/mailman/listinfo/syslog-sec From syslog-sec-bounces@willers.employees.org Thu Jun 17 08:04:06 2004 Received: from willers.employees.org (willers.employees.org [192.83.249.36]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA22526 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 2004 08:04:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from willers.employees.org (localhost.employees.org [127.0.0.1]) by willers.employees.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 191275C83D; Thu, 17 Jun 2004 05:04:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: syslog-sec@employees.org Delivered-To: syslog-sec@employees.org Received: from mail.hq.adiscon.com (mail.hq.adiscon.com [217.6.190.188]) by willers.employees.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42EF95C7B3 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 2004 05:04:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.hq.adiscon.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 371699C76B for ; Thu, 17 Jun 2004 14:14:23 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mail.hq.adiscon.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (grfdeb [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 28789-06 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 2004 14:13:15 +0200 (CEST) Received: from grfext.intern.adiscon.com (unknown [192.168.0.2]) by mail.hq.adiscon.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 9DDBE9C761 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 2004 14:13:15 +0200 (CEST) Received: from 172.19.0.5 by grfext.intern.adiscon.com (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Thu, 17 Jun 2004 14:02:57 +0200 Received: from grfint2.intern.adiscon.com ([172.19.0.6]) by grfint.intern.adiscon.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Thu, 17 Jun 2004 14:02:50 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 14:02:52 +0200 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Message-ID: <577465F99B41C842AAFBE9ED71E70ABA5DF5@grfint2.intern.adiscon.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Thread-Topic: -transport-udp, section 4.2 - source port Thread-Index: AcRUYwSB4ONnuSInQkytMNi1S1m7/g== From: "Rainer Gerhards" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Jun 2004 12:02:50.0578 (UTC) FILETIME=[03390320:01C45463] X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p5 (Debian) at adiscon.com Subject: [Syslog-sec] -transport-udp, section 4.2 - source port X-BeenThere: syslog-sec@www.employees.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.4 Precedence: list List-Id: syslog-sec.www.employees.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: syslog-sec-bounces@willers.employees.org Errors-To: syslog-sec-bounces@willers.employees.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable WG, 4.2 says: ### Each syslog sender process MUST attempt to use the same source port for the life of the process. If due to an error or other condition it becomes impossible for the process to continue to use the same port, it MAY start using a new source port, but it MUST generate a new random MessageId for the first message after changing the port and then MUST continue incrementing the new MessageId value for subsequent messages. ### Is the MUST really necessary? I think a SHOULD would do nicely. Reasoning: Look at a multi-threaded sender, sending syslog messages from multiple concurrently running threads. In such an implementation, each thread eventually has its own send socket and as such the source port will not be consistend within the process. Of course, for a single fragmented message, the source would be consistent, as this would be sent by a single thread. I opt to make it a SHOULD. Rainer _______________________________________________ Syslog-sec mailing list Syslog-sec@www.employees.org http://www.employees.org/mailman/listinfo/syslog-sec From syslog-sec-bounces@willers.employees.org Thu Jun 17 08:09:32 2004 Received: from willers.employees.org (willers.employees.org [192.83.249.36]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA22832 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 2004 08:09:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from willers.employees.org (localhost.employees.org [127.0.0.1]) by willers.employees.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B9DC5C85A; Thu, 17 Jun 2004 05:09:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: syslog-sec@employees.org Delivered-To: syslog-sec@employees.org Received: from mail.hq.adiscon.com (mail.hq.adiscon.com [217.6.190.188]) by willers.employees.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D5695C876 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 2004 05:09:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.hq.adiscon.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BFA29C773 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 2004 14:19:50 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mail.hq.adiscon.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (grfdeb [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 28920-02 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 2004 14:18:42 +0200 (CEST) Received: from grfext.intern.adiscon.com (unknown [192.168.0.2]) by mail.hq.adiscon.com (Postfix) with SMTP id CFBA89C761 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 2004 14:18:42 +0200 (CEST) Received: from 172.19.0.5 by grfext.intern.adiscon.com (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Thu, 17 Jun 2004 14:08:23 +0200 Received: from grfint2.intern.adiscon.com ([172.19.0.6]) by grfint.intern.adiscon.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Thu, 17 Jun 2004 14:08:16 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 14:08:18 +0200 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Message-ID: <577465F99B41C842AAFBE9ED71E70ABA5DF7@grfint2.intern.adiscon.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Thread-Topic: -transport-udp, section 4.4 - UDP RFCs Thread-Index: AcRUY8bgW7Os/vWVQfmeaCNo62AHQw== From: "Rainer Gerhards" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Jun 2004 12:08:17.0078 (UTC) FILETIME=[C5D4F560:01C45463] X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p5 (Debian) at adiscon.com Subject: [Syslog-sec] -transport-udp, section 4.4 - UDP RFCs X-BeenThere: syslog-sec@www.employees.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.4 Precedence: list List-Id: syslog-sec.www.employees.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: syslog-sec-bounces@willers.employees.org Errors-To: syslog-sec-bounces@willers.employees.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable WG, Section 4.4 specifically requires certain RFC formats for UDP. I wonder if it wouldn't be wiser to just say "UDP" without pointing to a specific RFC. The reasoning behind this is that e.g. a revision to RFC2640 that leads to a new RFC number would also require a revision of -transport-udp just to update the RFC number. As of my understanding, the term "UDP" should be well defined enough so that there is no need to point to the specific RFCs. This is just a thought, I am neiter sure about it nor do I have a strong opinion. Rainer _______________________________________________ Syslog-sec mailing list Syslog-sec@www.employees.org http://www.employees.org/mailman/listinfo/syslog-sec From syslog-sec-bounces@willers.employees.org Thu Jun 17 08:09:43 2004 Received: from willers.employees.org (willers.employees.org [192.83.249.36]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA22889 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 2004 08:09:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from willers.employees.org (localhost.employees.org [127.0.0.1]) by willers.employees.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E41875C897; Thu, 17 Jun 2004 05:09:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: syslog-sec@employees.org Delivered-To: syslog-sec@employees.org Received: from mail.hq.adiscon.com (mail.hq.adiscon.com [217.6.190.188]) by willers.employees.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 488785C83D for ; Thu, 17 Jun 2004 05:09:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.hq.adiscon.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4EA89C761 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 2004 14:19:58 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mail.hq.adiscon.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (grfdeb [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 28789-08 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 2004 14:18:51 +0200 (CEST) Received: from grfext.intern.adiscon.com (unknown [192.168.0.2]) by mail.hq.adiscon.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 8732A9C76B for ; Thu, 17 Jun 2004 14:18:51 +0200 (CEST) Received: from 172.19.0.5 by grfext.intern.adiscon.com (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Thu, 17 Jun 2004 14:08:33 +0200 Received: from grfint2.intern.adiscon.com ([172.19.0.6]) by grfint.intern.adiscon.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Thu, 17 Jun 2004 14:08:26 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 14:08:28 +0200 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Message-ID: <577465F99B41C842AAFBE9ED71E70ABA5DF8@grfint2.intern.adiscon.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Thread-Topic: -transport-udp, section 4.4 - UDP checksums Thread-Index: AcRUY8yrs7bX0wTLR6mYVQjIDd3avQ== From: "Rainer Gerhards" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Jun 2004 12:08:26.0812 (UTC) FILETIME=[CBA23FC0:01C45463] X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p5 (Debian) at adiscon.com Subject: [Syslog-sec] -transport-udp, section 4.4 - UDP checksums X-BeenThere: syslog-sec@www.employees.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.4 Precedence: list List-Id: syslog-sec.www.employees.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: syslog-sec-bounces@willers.employees.org Errors-To: syslog-sec-bounces@willers.employees.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable WG, section 4.4 demands UDP checksums in all cases (which means on IPv4, too). I am in doubt if all IPv4 stacks support UDP checksums (e.g. minimalistic stack in embedded device). So I propose that we just recommend them, but not demand them. Rainer _______________________________________________ Syslog-sec mailing list Syslog-sec@www.employees.org http://www.employees.org/mailman/listinfo/syslog-sec From syslog-sec-bounces@willers.employees.org Thu Jun 17 10:51:35 2004 Received: from willers.employees.org (willers.employees.org [192.83.249.36]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA06611 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 2004 10:51:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from willers.employees.org (localhost.employees.org [127.0.0.1]) by willers.employees.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 302485C816; Thu, 17 Jun 2004 07:51:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: syslog-sec@employees.org Delivered-To: syslog-sec@employees.org Received: from sj-iport-5.cisco.com (sj-iport-5.cisco.com [171.68.10.87]) by willers.employees.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0C775C8BA for ; Thu, 17 Jun 2004 07:51:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sj-core-4.cisco.com (171.68.223.138) by sj-iport-5.cisco.com with ESMTP; 17 Jun 2004 07:52:58 -0700 X-BrightmailFiltered: true Received: from flask.cisco.com (IDENT:mirapoint@flask.cisco.com [161.44.122.62]) by sj-core-4.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i5HEpUk0012144; Thu, 17 Jun 2004 07:51:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aokmiansw2k ([161.44.64.231]) by flask.cisco.com (MOS 3.4.6-GR) with ESMTP id AJM43895; Thu, 17 Jun 2004 10:51:29 -0400 (EDT) From: "Anton Okmianski" To: "'Rainer Gerhards'" , Subject: RE: [Syslog-sec] -transport-udp, section 4.4 - UDP checksums Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 10:51:29 -0400 Message-ID: <000a01c4547a$93451d20$e7402ca1@amer.cisco.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.5709 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <577465F99B41C842AAFBE9ED71E70ABA5DF8@grfint2.intern.adiscon.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4927.1200 X-BeenThere: syslog-sec@www.employees.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.4 Precedence: list List-Id: syslog-sec.www.employees.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: syslog-sec-bounces@willers.employees.org Errors-To: syslog-sec-bounces@willers.employees.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Rainer, I think it is a good point.=20 I am fine with changing this to SHOULD if hear no objections. Note, UDP checksums are already required in IPv6. The SHOULD will only apply to IPv4.=20 Anton.=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: syslog-sec-bounces@willers.employees.org=20 > [mailto:syslog-sec-bounces@willers.employees.org] On Behalf=20 > Of Rainer Gerhards > Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2004 8:08 AM > To: syslog-sec@employees.org > Subject: [Syslog-sec] -transport-udp, section 4.4 - UDP checksums >=20 >=20 > WG, >=20 > section 4.4 demands UDP checksums in all cases (which means=20 > on IPv4, too). I am in doubt if all IPv4 stacks support UDP=20 > checksums (e.g. minimalistic stack in embedded device). So I=20 > propose that we just recommend them, but not demand them. >=20 >=20 > Rainer > _______________________________________________ > Syslog-sec mailing list > Syslog-sec@www.employees.org=20 > http://www.employees.org/mailman/listinfo/sysl> og-sec >=20 _______________________________________________ Syslog-sec mailing list Syslog-sec@www.employees.org http://www.employees.org/mailman/listinfo/syslog-sec From syslog-sec-bounces@willers.employees.org Thu Jun 17 11:09:50 2004 Received: from willers.employees.org (willers.employees.org [192.83.249.36]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA08522 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 2004 11:09:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from willers.employees.org (localhost.employees.org [127.0.0.1]) by willers.employees.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B7B05C854; Thu, 17 Jun 2004 08:09:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: syslog-sec@employees.org Delivered-To: syslog-sec@employees.org Received: from sj-iport-2.cisco.com (sj-iport-2-in.cisco.com [171.71.176.71]) by willers.employees.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 743795C816 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 2004 08:09:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sj-core-5.cisco.com (171.71.177.238) by sj-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 17 Jun 2004 08:11:01 -0700 Received: from flask.cisco.com (IDENT:mirapoint@flask.cisco.com [161.44.122.62]) by sj-core-5.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i5HF9hiJ004081; Thu, 17 Jun 2004 08:09:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aokmiansw2k ([161.44.64.231]) by flask.cisco.com (MOS 3.4.6-GR) with ESMTP id AJM46150; Thu, 17 Jun 2004 11:09:43 -0400 (EDT) From: "Anton Okmianski" To: "'Rainer Gerhards'" Subject: RE: [Syslog-sec] -transport-udp, section 4.4 - UDP RFCs Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 11:09:44 -0400 Message-ID: <001301c4547d$200fd450$e7402ca1@amer.cisco.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.5709 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <577465F99B41C842AAFBE9ED71E70ABA5DF7@grfint2.intern.adiscon.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4927.1200 Cc: syslog-sec@employees.org X-BeenThere: syslog-sec@www.employees.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.4 Precedence: list List-Id: syslog-sec.www.employees.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: syslog-sec-bounces@willers.employees.org Errors-To: syslog-sec-bounces@willers.employees.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Rainer, I think it is good to mention both original UDP RFC and RFC2460 since the latter clarified certain things about UDP use with IPv6. But I think I already kinda do it in one sentence: "This transport protocol was designed to work on top of UDP [3] over both IPv4 [4] and IPv6 [5]." ... Where 3 is RFC768, 4 - RFC 791 and 5 - RFC 2460. RFC 2460 does clarify certain things with UDP (like use of checksums). I can change it to this if you like: "This transport protocol was designed to work on top of UDP [3][5] over both IPv4 [4] and IPv6 [5]." I don't like the idea of having no reference to a specific RFCs for UDP. Anton. > -----Original Message----- > From: syslog-sec-bounces@willers.employees.org > [mailto:syslog-sec-bounces@willers.employees.org] On Behalf > Of Rainer Gerhards > Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2004 8:08 AM > To: syslog-sec@employees.org > Subject: [Syslog-sec] -transport-udp, section 4.4 - UDP RFCs > > > WG, > > Section 4.4 specifically requires certain RFC formats for > UDP. I wonder if it wouldn't be wiser to just say "UDP" > without pointing to a specific RFC. The reasoning behind this > is that e.g. a revision to RFC2640 that leads to a new RFC > number would also require a revision of -transport-udp just > to update the RFC number. As of my understanding, the term > "UDP" should be well defined enough so that there is no need > to point to the specific RFCs. This is just a thought, I am > neiter sure about it nor do I have a strong opinion. > > Rainer > _______________________________________________ > Syslog-sec mailing list > Syslog-sec@www.employees.org > http://www.employees.org/mailman/listinfo/sysl> og-sec > _______________________________________________ Syslog-sec mailing list Syslog-sec@www.employees.org http://www.employees.org/mailman/listinfo/syslog-sec From syslog-sec-bounces@willers.employees.org Thu Jun 17 11:13:30 2004 Received: from willers.employees.org (willers.employees.org [192.83.249.36]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA08894 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 2004 11:13:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from willers.employees.org (localhost.employees.org [127.0.0.1]) by willers.employees.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73FFF5C83D; Thu, 17 Jun 2004 08:13:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: syslog-sec@employees.org Delivered-To: syslog-sec@employees.org Received: from sj-iport-2.cisco.com (sj-iport-2-in.cisco.com [171.71.176.71]) by willers.employees.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FB0B5C7E9 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 2004 08:13:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sj-core-5.cisco.com (171.71.177.238) by sj-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 17 Jun 2004 08:14:44 -0700 Received: from flask.cisco.com (IDENT:mirapoint@flask.cisco.com [161.44.122.62]) by sj-core-5.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i5HFDRiJ007439; Thu, 17 Jun 2004 08:13:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aokmiansw2k ([161.44.64.231]) by flask.cisco.com (MOS 3.4.6-GR) with ESMTP id AJM46547; Thu, 17 Jun 2004 11:13:26 -0400 (EDT) From: "Anton Okmianski" To: "'Rainer Gerhards'" , Subject: RE: [Syslog-sec] -transport-udp, section 4.2 - source port Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 11:13:27 -0400 Message-ID: <001401c4547d$a4f150e0$e7402ca1@amer.cisco.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.5709 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <577465F99B41C842AAFBE9ED71E70ABA5DF5@grfint2.intern.adiscon.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4927.1200 X-BeenThere: syslog-sec@www.employees.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.4 Precedence: list List-Id: syslog-sec.www.employees.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: syslog-sec-bounces@willers.employees.org Errors-To: syslog-sec-bounces@willers.employees.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Rainer, I think this is a very good point. I will have to explain the scenario, so it is clear why it is a should and update some text around description of use of MessageId field as well. With your use-case, each thread may have its own MessageId field it increments. This would not violate current draft, but would go against its recommendation. =20 I will update the draft to reflect your proposal if I hear no objections from others.=20 Thanks! Anton.=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: syslog-sec-bounces@willers.employees.org=20 > [mailto:syslog-sec-bounces@willers.employees.org] On Behalf=20 > Of Rainer Gerhards > Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2004 8:03 AM > To: syslog-sec@employees.org > Subject: [Syslog-sec] -transport-udp, section 4.2 - source port >=20 >=20 > WG, >=20 > 4.2 says: >=20 > ### > Each syslog sender process MUST attempt to use the same source port > for the life of the process. If due to an error or other condition > it becomes impossible for the process to continue to use the same > port, it MAY start using a new source port, but it MUST generate a > new random MessageId for the first message after changing the port > and then MUST continue incrementing the new MessageId value for > subsequent messages. > ### >=20 > Is the MUST really necessary? I think a SHOULD would do nicely. >=20 > Reasoning: > Look at a multi-threaded sender, sending syslog messages from=20 > multiple concurrently running threads. In such an=20 > implementation, each thread eventually has its own send=20 > socket and as such the source port will not be consistend=20 > within the process. Of course, for a single fragmented=20 > message, the source would be consistent, as this would be=20 > sent by a single thread. >=20 > I opt to make it a SHOULD. >=20 > Rainer > _______________________________________________ > Syslog-sec mailing list > Syslog-sec@www.employees.org=20 > http://www.employees.org/mailman/listinfo/sysl> og-sec >=20 _______________________________________________ Syslog-sec mailing list Syslog-sec@www.employees.org http://www.employees.org/mailman/listinfo/syslog-sec From syslog-sec-bounces@willers.employees.org Thu Jun 17 11:15:06 2004 Received: from willers.employees.org (willers.employees.org [192.83.249.36]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA09021 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 2004 11:15:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from willers.employees.org (localhost.employees.org [127.0.0.1]) by willers.employees.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CE555C8BF; Thu, 17 Jun 2004 08:15:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: syslog-sec@employees.org Delivered-To: syslog-sec@employees.org Received: from mail.hq.adiscon.com (mail.hq.adiscon.com [217.6.190.188]) by willers.employees.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B88D85C8A5 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 2004 08:15:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.hq.adiscon.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED5CD9C773; Thu, 17 Jun 2004 17:25:24 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mail.hq.adiscon.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (grfdeb [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 29089-10; Thu, 17 Jun 2004 17:24:16 +0200 (CEST) Received: from grfext.intern.adiscon.com (unknown [192.168.0.2]) by mail.hq.adiscon.com (Postfix) with SMTP id BE73B9C761; Thu, 17 Jun 2004 17:24:16 +0200 (CEST) Received: from 172.19.0.5 by grfext.intern.adiscon.com (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Thu, 17 Jun 2004 17:13:57 +0200 Received: from grfint2.intern.adiscon.com ([172.19.0.6]) by grfint.intern.adiscon.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Thu, 17 Jun 2004 17:13:51 +0200 Subject: RE: [Syslog-sec] -transport-udp, section 4.4 - UDP RFCs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 17:13:52 +0200 Message-ID: <577465F99B41C842AAFBE9ED71E70ABA5E07@grfint2.intern.adiscon.com> Content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Thread-Topic: [Syslog-sec] -transport-udp, section 4.4 - UDP RFCs Thread-Index: AcRUfS280O6Xrn6/Tm+5NqGqLRbnwgAADVdg From: "Rainer Gerhards" To: "Anton Okmianski" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Jun 2004 15:13:51.0468 (UTC) FILETIME=[B2720AC0:01C4547D] X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p5 (Debian) at adiscon.com Cc: syslog-sec@employees.org X-BeenThere: syslog-sec@www.employees.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.4 Precedence: list List-Id: syslog-sec.www.employees.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: syslog-sec-bounces@willers.employees.org Errors-To: syslog-sec-bounces@willers.employees.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Anton: as I wrote, I have no strong opinion on this. I just thought I post it so that others with more experience may comment. From my point of view, I think the current text is fine. Rainer=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Anton Okmianski [mailto:aokmians@cisco.com]=20 > Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2004 5:10 PM > To: Rainer Gerhards > Cc: syslog-sec@employees.org > Subject: RE: [Syslog-sec] -transport-udp, section 4.4 - UDP RFCs >=20 > Rainer, I think it is good to mention both original UDP RFC and > RFC2460 since the latter clarified certain things about UDP use with > IPv6. But I think I already kinda do it in one sentence:=20 >=20 > "This transport protocol was designed to work on top of UDP [3] over > both IPv4 [4] and IPv6 [5]." >=20 > ... Where 3 is RFC768, 4 - RFC 791 and 5 - RFC 2460. RFC 2460 does > clarify certain things with UDP (like use of checksums). I can change > it to this if you like: >=20 > "This transport protocol was designed to work on top of UDP [3][5] > over both IPv4 [4] and IPv6 [5]." >=20 > I don't like the idea of having no reference to a specific RFCs for > UDP. =20 >=20 > Anton. =20 _______________________________________________ Syslog-sec mailing list Syslog-sec@www.employees.org http://www.employees.org/mailman/listinfo/syslog-sec From syslog-sec-bounces@willers.employees.org Thu Jun 17 19:11:19 2004 Received: from willers.employees.org (willers.employees.org [192.83.249.36]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA24701 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 2004 19:11:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from willers.employees.org (localhost.employees.org [127.0.0.1]) by willers.employees.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 910AF5C7EF; Thu, 17 Jun 2004 16:11:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: syslog-sec@employees.org Delivered-To: syslog-sec@employees.org Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com (rtp-iport-1.cisco.com [64.102.122.148]) by willers.employees.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D79C5C7BA for ; Thu, 17 Jun 2004 16:11:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (64.102.124.12) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 17 Jun 2004 19:16:53 -0400 X-BrightmailFiltered: true Received: from flask.cisco.com (IDENT:mirapoint@flask.cisco.com [161.44.122.62]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i5HNBF4w006725 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 2004 19:11:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aokmiansw2k ([161.44.64.231]) by flask.cisco.com (MOS 3.4.6-GR) with ESMTP id AJM94810; Thu, 17 Jun 2004 19:11:14 -0400 (EDT) From: "Anton Okmianski" To: Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 19:11:14 -0400 Message-ID: <000701c454c0$63636990$e7402ca1@amer.cisco.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.5709 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4927.1200 Importance: Normal Subject: [Syslog-sec] Time away X-BeenThere: syslog-sec@www.employees.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.4 Precedence: list List-Id: syslog-sec.www.employees.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: syslog-sec-bounces@willers.employees.org Errors-To: syslog-sec-bounces@willers.employees.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I will be on vacation next week. Please keep the comments about syslog = transport draft coming. I will address them when I come back and should = have the next draft ready fairly quickly. Anton.=20 _______________________________________________ Syslog-sec mailing list Syslog-sec@www.employees.org http://www.employees.org/mailman/listinfo/syslog-sec From syslog-sec-bounces@willers.employees.org Fri Jun 18 05:25:13 2004 Received: from willers.employees.org (willers.employees.org [192.83.249.36]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA08633 for ; Fri, 18 Jun 2004 05:25:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from willers.employees.org (localhost.employees.org [127.0.0.1]) by willers.employees.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85B0F5C84A; Fri, 18 Jun 2004 02:25:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: syslog-sec@employees.org Delivered-To: syslog-sec@employees.org Received: from gab54-1.com (unknown [193.136.195.3]) by willers.employees.org (Postfix) with SMTP id EAE035C83E for ; Fri, 18 Jun 2004 02:25:09 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2004 10:31:13 +0000 To: "Syslog-sec" From: "Clonvick" Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="--------aoersiypxjbbpjnbywrm" Subject: [Syslog-sec] Re: Yahoo! X-BeenThere: syslog-sec@www.employees.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.4 Precedence: list List-Id: syslog-sec.www.employees.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: syslog-sec-bounces@willers.employees.org Errors-To: syslog-sec-bounces@willers.employees.org ----------aoersiypxjbbpjnbywrm Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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(PDT) X-Original-To: syslog-sec@employees.org Delivered-To: syslog-sec@employees.org Received: from sj-iport-2.cisco.com (sj-iport-2-in.cisco.com [171.71.176.71]) by willers.employees.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B9DE5C7F0 for ; Fri, 18 Jun 2004 13:22:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sj-core-1.cisco.com (171.71.177.237) by sj-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 18 Jun 2004 13:23:49 -0700 Received: from edison.cisco.com (edison.cisco.com [171.71.180.109]) by sj-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i5IKMGlq004048 for ; Fri, 18 Jun 2004 13:22:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (clonvick@localhost) by edison.cisco.com (8.8.6 (PHNE_14041)/CISCO.SERVER.1.2) with ESMTP id NAA15868 for ; Fri, 18 Jun 2004 13:22:16 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2004 13:22:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Chris Lonvick To: syslog-sec@employees.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 18 Jun 2004 13:24:43 -0700 Subject: [Syslog-sec] New maillist policy X-BeenThere: syslog-sec@www.employees.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.4 Precedence: list List-Id: syslog-sec.www.employees.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: syslog-sec-bounces@willers.employees.org Errors-To: syslog-sec-bounces@willers.employees.org Hi Folks, It was brought to my attention that spam has been making its way through the new list on employees.org. :-( I've changed things back to the way they were before the latest change. I'm now manually approving all messages again. -sigh- That's really not what I want but I really don't think that anyone on IETF mailing lists should be subjected to spam. I'm still working with the IETF people to get the list moved over to their servers. More news on that as it happens. >From this, if you post something to the list and it doesn't come out pretty quickly, I may be sleeping. If it doesn't come out within a reasonable time (I sleep during nighttime hours here in Austin, Texas, USA), please ping me at clonvick@cisco.com to see if I'm still sleeping. We havn't had any problems with this method in the past but I'd just like to remind people that this is the way it's going to be again. Apologies for the spam stuff that did make it through. Thanks, Chris _______________________________________________ Syslog-sec mailing list Syslog-sec@www.employees.org http://www.employees.org/mailman/listinfo/syslog-sec From syslog-sec-bounces@willers.employees.org Mon Jun 28 11:57:24 2004 Received: from willers.employees.org (willers.employees.org [192.83.249.36]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA12927 for ; Mon, 28 Jun 2004 11:57:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from willers.employees.org (localhost.employees.org [127.0.0.1]) by willers.employees.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 790E75C767; Mon, 28 Jun 2004 08:57:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: syslog-sec@employees.org Delivered-To: syslog-sec@employees.org Received: from mail.hq.adiscon.com (mail.hq.adiscon.com [217.6.190.188]) by willers.employees.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A3385C729 for ; Mon, 28 Jun 2004 00:49:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.hq.adiscon.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 922819C757; Mon, 28 Jun 2004 10:00:35 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mail.hq.adiscon.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (grfdeb [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 06227-07; Mon, 28 Jun 2004 09:58:24 +0200 (CEST) Received: from grfext.intern.adiscon.com (unknown [192.168.0.2]) by mail.hq.adiscon.com (Postfix) with SMTP id BC69B9C755; Mon, 28 Jun 2004 09:58:24 +0200 (CEST) Received: from 172.19.0.5 by grfext.intern.adiscon.com (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Mon, 28 Jun 2004 09:46:47 +0200 Received: from grfint2.intern.adiscon.com ([172.19.0.6]) by grfint.intern.adiscon.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Mon, 28 Jun 2004 09:46:48 +0200 Received: from grfext.intern.adiscon.com ([172.19.0.3]) by grfint.intern.adiscon.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Mon, 10 May 2004 06:12:06 +0200 Received: from 192.168.0.6 by grfext.intern.adiscon.com (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Mon, 10 May 2004 06:12:08 +0200 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.hq.adiscon.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8588A9C773 for ; Mon, 10 May 2004 06:19:04 +0200 (CEST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Received: from mail.hq.adiscon.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (grfdeb [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 00820-02 for ; Mon, 10 May 2004 06:19:00 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ipx10102.ipxserver.de (ipx10102.ipxserver.de [80.190.240.92]) by mail.hq.adiscon.com (Postfix) with SMTP id EA2359C755 for ; Mon, 10 May 2004 06:18:59 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ipx10102.ipxserver.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED5FD1B0067 for ; Mon, 10 May 2004 06:12:15 +0200 (CEST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Received: from ipx10102.ipxserver.de ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (ipx10102 [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 12453-04 for ; Mon, 10 May 2004 06:12:12 +0200 (CEST) Received: from willers.employees.org (willers.employees.org [128.107.241.167]) by ipx10102.ipxserver.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA0B91B005E for ; Mon, 10 May 2004 06:12:11 +0200 (CEST) Received: from willers.employees.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by willers.employees.org (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4A2i4ap010136 for ; Sun, 9 May 2004 19:44:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by willers.employees.org (8.12.10/8.12.5/Submit) id i4A2i4tl010135 for syslog-sec-outgoing; Sun, 9 May 2004 19:44:04 -0700 (PDT) Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 09:46:45 +0200 Message-ID: <577465F99B41C842AAFBE9ED71E70ABA0141CC@grfint2.intern.adiscon.com> Thread-Topic: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-syslog-protocol-04.txt Thread-Index: AcQu/ZO+UDU0iQm5QF2EdZSuifactAGbbdiw From: "Rainer Gerhards" To: "Anton Okmianski" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Jun 2004 07:46:48.0905 (UTC) FILETIME=[117EFB90:01C45CE4] X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p5 (Debian) at adiscon.com X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 08:57:24 -0700 Subject: [Syslog-sec] RE: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-syslog-protocol-04.txt X-BeenThere: syslog-sec@www.employees.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.4 Precedence: list List-Id: syslog-sec.www.employees.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: syslog-sec-bounces@willers.employees.org Errors-To: syslog-sec-bounces@willers.employees.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi list, I am editing -protocol-04 and I would appreciate some feedback on these points here (raised some time ago): > Why do we default to IPv6 unknown IP? It is longer. I can change this, but I think/hope some time IPv6 will look more natural - no other reasoning for this. > I also don't > understand the value of distinguishing the IPv4 unknown IP and IPv6 > address. It is still unknown. It also creates ambiguity, what is the > stack supports both. I found this possibility while describing the scenarios. I can remove it, if that is concensus. > "The TAG is used to denote the process sending the message." Should > this be a MUST? I pass this on to the list... It sounds good, but doesn't we need to create a TAG value repository in this case? Rainer _______________________________________________ Syslog-sec mailing list Syslog-sec@www.employees.org http://www.employees.org/mailman/listinfo/syslog-sec