Subject: RE: [Syslog] Having IPR in IETF Documents

From: "Rainer Gerhards" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 11:09:42 +0200

Chris,

ok, you have pointed to the IPR IETF list, anyhow, one comment on this
list is due:

> I do want to be clear on this subject.  Hauwei is well within 
> their rights 
> to discover something while writing a Working Group document, 
> and then to 
> claim IPR on that discovery.  This has happened in the past 
> which was why 
> the IETF started writing BCP 79 - currently RFC 3979.  The 
> discussion of 
> the use of IPR in IETF documents has been very rocky but 
> overall, the IETF 
> is really just catching up with other standards developing 
> organizations.
> Almost all other standards organizations have developed clear 
> rules about 
> bringing IPR into their documents and the IETF has done the same.

There might (might!) be some reasoning for this in some cases. In our
case, this is more than frivolous. I thought Huawei claims something the
have "invented" before writing the tls document. If it really belongs to
the document - I actually feel I shall be ripped of my work. I've just
scanned the 3 (!) core pages of syslog-tls. It is nice to hear that
Huawei has "discovered" how tls works. The only "novel" thing in the
pages is using a byte-counted header. I think I can claim IPR on that
because I introduced it in the -tls discussion (of course other people
introduced this concept too, but I was the first one to apply it to
syslog ;)). Huawei didn't even initially understand how this was
supposed to work, so I and others (namely Anton, who could also start
the patent race...) needed to explain in detail. 

Other than these things, there is not even any technical content in the
document. It's a stupid simple protcol mapping.

I am upset. I think I need to consider applying for a patent on the
layered architecture for syslog as well as for using structured data.
Sounds silly? I think it's less silly than what Huawei seems to claim.
Probably I go for that.

Folks, this is not the way I like to work. I have to re-word my mail
from yesterday. In this case, Huawei actually seems to *abuse* an
already *abusive patent system*. I have no understanding for this and I
have a hard time understanding those folks that think this is the right
course of action.

I am not against patenting *invention* in a general sense. But I would
like to see something *invented* (that means you design something that
is *new*, aka "did not exist before"). And I definitely do not like to
see that my work is stolen by someone else. I've contributed to this WG
in the thought that would lead to a freely usable open standard. Looks
like the GPL folks are actually right...

If the claim is actually arisen out of -transport-tls, I will no longer
work with the authors of this draft. I ask the WG to look for some other
authors.

I am staying tuned if the claim actually *roots* in -transport-tls.

Rainer

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---

From: Chris Lonvick <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 06:29:50 -0700 (PDT)

Hi Rainer,

> the patent race...) needed to explain in detail.

Right.  We don't know what Hauwei is claiming, or even if they discovered 
something in this document.  BCP 79 is more clear than I was, there might 
be something in the document that was discovered before the authors 
started writing.

> have a hard time understanding those folks that think this is the right

Again, let's please be patient.  Hauwei is new to the IETF and, as it's 
been pointed out on the list already, they are new in the patent filing 
system.  Let's follow the process and see what works out.

> I am staying tuned if the claim actually *roots* in -transport-tls.

Please do.  I will convey information as it happens.

Thanks,
Chris