From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Wed Mar 2 09:25:22 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA15206; Wed, 2 Mar 2005 09:25:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D6Uo8-0001gf-29; Wed, 02 Mar 2005 09:26:37 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D6Umv-0007R8-NF; Wed, 02 Mar 2005 09:25:21 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D6Umt-0007QW-L1 for tools-discuss@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 02 Mar 2005 09:25:19 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA15187 for ; Wed, 2 Mar 2005 09:25:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from av5-1-sn3.vrr.skanova.net ([81.228.9.113]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D6Uo2-0001gV-VC for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Wed, 02 Mar 2005 09:26:32 -0500 Received: by av5-1-sn3.vrr.skanova.net (Postfix, from userid 502) id A4BDB37E53; Wed, 2 Mar 2005 15:25:07 +0100 (CET) Received: from smtp1-1-sn3.vrr.skanova.net (smtp1-1-sn3.vrr.skanova.net [81.228.9.177]) by av5-1-sn3.vrr.skanova.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9753037E47 for ; Wed, 2 Mar 2005 15:25:07 +0100 (CET) Received: from shiraz.levkowetz.com (h195n1fls311o871.telia.com [213.64.174.195]) by smtp1-1-sn3.vrr.skanova.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8725738039 for ; Wed, 2 Mar 2005 15:25:07 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by shiraz.levkowetz.com with esmtp (Exim 4.44) id 1D6Umh-0005aT-Dp for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Wed, 02 Mar 2005 15:25:07 +0100 Message-ID: <4225CCC3.4090100@levkowetz.com> Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2005 15:25:07 +0100 From: Henrik Levkowetz User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.9 (Macintosh/20041103) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Tools Team Discussion X-Enigmail-Version: 0.89.5.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 127.0.0.1 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on shiraz.levkowetz.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7a6398bf8aaeabc7a7bb696b6b0a2aad Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Tools-discuss] New version ( v1.61 ) of idnits out X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 856eb5f76e7a34990d1d457d8e8e5b7f Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, I've updated idnits to refer to RFC 3978/3979 which is now out, rather than the predecessors 3667/3668. This version is lenient in that it should (is intended to :) accept both references to 3667/3668 and 3978/3979 in the boilerplate. I expect to restrict this to only accepting references to 3978/3979 in the future, but will wait for an indication that the secretariat is being stricter before making idnits stricter. idnits is available from http://ietf.levkowetz.com/tools/idnits/ . Henrik _______________________________________________ Tools-discuss mailing list Tools-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Wed Mar 2 14:41:19 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA17938; Wed, 2 Mar 2005 14:41:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D6Zjv-0000eC-Jd; Wed, 02 Mar 2005 14:42:36 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D6ZiA-0003tE-WF; Wed, 02 Mar 2005 14:40:47 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D6Zi9-0003t6-Kl; Wed, 02 Mar 2005 14:40:45 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA17905; Wed, 2 Mar 2005 14:40:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from exprod6og8.obsmtp.com ([64.18.1.128] helo=psmtp.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D6ZjM-0000dG-2G; Wed, 02 Mar 2005 14:42:01 -0500 Received: from source ([193.95.148.142]) by exprod6ob8.obsmtp.com ([64.18.5.12]) with SMTP; Wed, 02 Mar 2005 11:40:40 PST Received: from inner-relay-1.corp.adobe.com ([153.32.1.51]) by outbound-smtp-2.corp.adobe.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j22JkgTG001570; Wed, 2 Mar 2005 11:46:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from calsj-dev (calsj-dev.corp.adobe.com [153.32.1.193]) by inner-relay-1.corp.adobe.com (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j22JebBQ010969; Wed, 2 Mar 2005 11:40:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from MasinterT40 ([130.248.178.65]) by mailsj-v1.corp.adobe.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.21 (built Sep 8 2003)) with ESMTP id <0ICQ00K56PBO1T@mailsj-v1.corp.adobe.com>; Wed, 02 Mar 2005 11:40:37 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2005 11:40:36 -0800 From: Larry Masinter To: tools-team@ietf.org, "'IETF TOOLS discussion'" Message-id: <0ICQ00K57PBO1T@mailsj-v1.corp.adobe.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thread-index: AcUfX7TH3/Bk2kksQRuJ1e6pgMU/0w== X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7d33c50f3756db14428398e2bdedd581 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Cc: "'Leslie Daigle'" Subject: [Tools-discuss] mailing lists X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ffa9dfbbe7cc58b3fa6b8ae3e57b0aa3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT A discussion on the uri@w3.org mailing list, discussing an internet draft I'm working on, raised the question: What are the mechanics and infrastructure of @ietf.org mailing lists? Who manages them? How do you get one? What is the policy for granting and maintaining them? How do we do spam-prevention for open mailing lists? Should we offer some other technology (BBS, TWiki, etc.) for public review? This is in the case of establishing an IANA-maintained registry, and supporting the "mailing-list review" process; there are a number of lists already set up or in process for public review of registered values. I wonder if this topic is something that the Tools team would take on. Larry _______________________________________________ Tools-discuss mailing list Tools-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Wed Mar 2 16:32:32 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA29283; Wed, 2 Mar 2005 16:32:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D6bTb-0003ee-A7; Wed, 02 Mar 2005 16:33:51 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D6bS2-0000qr-G7; Wed, 02 Mar 2005 16:32:14 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D6bS1-0000qf-65; Wed, 02 Mar 2005 16:32:13 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA29264; Wed, 2 Mar 2005 16:32:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from furball.foretec.com ([132.151.15.110] helo=foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D6bTE-0003eM-OC; Wed, 02 Mar 2005 16:33:29 -0500 Received: from [65.246.255.62] (helo=D1GSDG11.foretec.com) by foretec.com with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1D6bRx-0001Uz-IP; Wed, 02 Mar 2005 16:32:09 -0500 Message-Id: <6.1.2.0.2.20050302161258.0383f690@furball.foretec.com> X-Sender: bfuller@furball.foretec.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.2.0 Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2005 16:25:43 -0500 To: Larry Masinter From: "Barbara B. Fuller" In-Reply-To: <0ICQ00K57PBO1T@mailsj-v1.corp.adobe.com> References: <0ICQ00K57PBO1T@mailsj-v1.corp.adobe.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 02ec665d00de228c50c93ed6b5e4fc1a Cc: Harald Alvestrand , Brian Carpenter , tools-team@ietf.org, tools-discuss@ietf.org Subject: [Tools-discuss] Re: [Tools-team] mailing lists X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: b4a0a5f5992e2a4954405484e7717d8c Hi Larry: Have you tried the Secretariat's Email List Request Tool (https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/request_list.cgi)? It is a Web-based tool for requesting that an e-mail list be hosted at the ietf.org domain. The tool allows the user to enter all of the information required by the Secretariat to create or move an e-mail list, and to request and obtain approval for the e-mail list, if required. The tool is accessible from the Working Group Chairs Web Page (http://www.ietf.org/IESG/wgchairs.html). We made the tool available to the working group chairs in May 2004, and people have been using it to request mailing lists ever since that time. Regards, Barbara -------------------------------------------------------------------------- At 02:40 PM 3/2/2005, you wrote: >A discussion on the uri@w3.org mailing list, discussing >an internet draft I'm working on, raised the question: > >What are the mechanics and infrastructure of @ietf.org >mailing lists? Who manages them? How do you get one? What >is the policy for granting and maintaining them? How do we >do spam-prevention for open mailing lists? Should we >offer some other technology (BBS, TWiki, etc.) for >public review? > >This is in the case of establishing an IANA-maintained >registry, and supporting the "mailing-list review" >process; there are a number of lists already set up >or in process for public review of registered values. > >I wonder if this topic is something that the Tools >team would take on. > >Larry > > > >_______________________________________________ >Tools-team mailing list >Tools-team@ietf.org >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team ------------------------------------------------ Barbara B. Fuller Acting Executive Director Internet Engineering Task Force Natick, Massachusetts Office: Phone: +1-508-650-4020 Fax: +1-508-650-4639 Reston, Virginia Office: Phone: +1-703-620-9053 Fax: +1-703-620-9071 _______________________________________________ Tools-discuss mailing list Tools-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Wed Mar 2 18:40:48 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA12591; Wed, 2 Mar 2005 18:40:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D6dTl-0006ba-3j; Wed, 02 Mar 2005 18:42:09 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D6dR6-0008Of-7d; Wed, 02 Mar 2005 18:39:24 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D6dR2-0008NR-BR; Wed, 02 Mar 2005 18:39:20 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA12405; Wed, 2 Mar 2005 18:39:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from basie.internet2.edu ([207.75.164.22]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D6dSG-0006YO-KM; Wed, 02 Mar 2005 18:40:37 -0500 Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by basie.internet2.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8231F1CD6B7; Wed, 2 Mar 2005 18:39:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from basie.internet2.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (basie.internet2.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 06930-01; Wed, 2 Mar 2005 18:39:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by basie.internet2.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 571D31CD60D; Wed, 2 Mar 2005 18:39:17 -0500 (EST) To: ietf@ietf.org References: <86u0ntevlw.fsf@abel.internet2.edu> <42260FC8.4090103@levkowetz.com> <86fyzdetlm.fsf@abel.internet2.edu> From: stanislav shalunov Date: 02 Mar 2005 18:39:24 -0500 In-Reply-To: <86fyzdetlm.fsf@abel.internet2.edu> Message-ID: <86r7ixbosz.fsf_-_@abel.internet2.edu> Lines: 68 User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: by mail.internet2.edu virus scanner X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: f60d0f7806b0c40781eee6b9cd0b2135 Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org Subject: [Tools-discuss] indication of internet-draft status X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: fb6060cb60c0cea16e3f7219e40a0a81 Context: The IETF Tools team works on requirements for various automated tools for the IETF. Many of the tools have to deal with internet-drafts; in these cases, the information whether an internet-draft is a working group draft or a personal draft is important. The mechanism by which such information is kept thus needs to be known to the tools and, correspondingly, reflected in the requirements. There appear to be at least three conceivable ways of keeping the information about internet-draft status: 1. Internet-draft name: working group internet-drafts are always named "draft-ietf-*", while personal drafts do not match this pattern. For a working group internet-draft, the third component of the file name is the working group abbreviation. When a personal internet-draft becomes a working group item, or when a working group item is no longer one, or when an internet-draft changes the working group, the internet-draft gets republished under a new name, without exception. (This could be automated in a way that would ensure that name history is consistently and reliably captured.) 2. Metadata kept separately: the file name has nothing to do with the status, which is kept separately. The file name is stable and never changes (other than the version number). The working group status is prominently indicated by all tools (in announcement subject lines, etc.). 3. Current situation: technically, (2) (however, name stability isn't enforced or actively encouraged). Informally, (1) for most working groups. Many (most?) participants infer (1). Tools penalize non-"draft-ietf-*" working group internet-drafts by making their working group status less prominent. For the purposes of specifying the requirements for tool development, it is necessary to know which way to keep the information. It is rather obvious that (1) and (2) are both vastly preferable to (3). The choice between (1) and (2) is less clear. Advantages of (1): * simpler; * matches existing expectations of most participants; * makes working group status automatically prominent. Advantages of (2): * cleaner; * allows tracking of document history better and easier. It appears that the Tools team has a slight preference of (1) in favor of (2) because of the existing convention (but (2) is perfectly workable; it would simply require a bit of an education effort). However, (3) appears so much inferior to either (1) or (2) that proponents of (1) and (2) would both be reasonably expected to be willing to compromise so that (3) is avoided. With this in mind, we would like to raise the question: Which way of keeping the status should the Tools team use in the requirements for the tools it is specifying? -- Stanislav Shalunov http://www.internet2.edu/~shalunov/ This message is designed to be viewed with 0.06479891g of NaCl. _______________________________________________ Tools-discuss mailing list Tools-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Wed Mar 2 19:24:42 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA16279; Wed, 2 Mar 2005 19:24:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D6eAF-0007ej-4s; Wed, 02 Mar 2005 19:26:04 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D6e7Z-0001AD-JB; Wed, 02 Mar 2005 19:23:17 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D6ddN-0002qG-Fl; Wed, 02 Mar 2005 18:52:05 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA13460; Wed, 2 Mar 2005 18:52:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from klutz.cs.utk.edu ([160.36.56.50]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D6dec-0006pX-2I; Wed, 02 Mar 2005 18:53:23 -0500 Received: from localhost (klutz [127.0.0.1]) by klutz.cs.utk.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F4A1400D9; Wed, 2 Mar 2005 18:52:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from klutz.cs.utk.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (klutz [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 11098-05; Wed, 2 Mar 2005 18:52:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from astro.cs.utk.edu (astro.cs.utk.edu [160.36.58.43]) by klutz.cs.utk.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57B4A40169; Wed, 2 Mar 2005 18:52:01 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2005 18:51:59 -0500 From: Keith Moore To: stanislav shalunov Message-Id: <20050302185159.64520048.moore@cs.utk.edu> In-Reply-To: <86r7ixbosz.fsf_-_@abel.internet2.edu> References: <86u0ntevlw.fsf@abel.internet2.edu> <42260FC8.4090103@levkowetz.com> <86fyzdetlm.fsf@abel.internet2.edu> <86r7ixbosz.fsf_-_@abel.internet2.edu> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 1.0.0beta3 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386--netbsdelf) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at cs.utk.edu by ClamAV and McAfee X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 93238566e09e6e262849b4f805833007 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 02 Mar 2005 19:23:16 -0500 Cc: moore@cs.utk.edu, ietf@ietf.org, tools-discuss@ietf.org Subject: [Tools-discuss] Re: indication of internet-draft status X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9466e0365fc95844abaf7c3f15a05c7d Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Which way of > keeping the status should the Tools team use in the requirements for > the tools it is specifying? "2. Metadata kept separately" a) it's often desirable and occasionally necessary to allow drafts to change from individual to wg and vice versa (or for that matter from one wg to another, as sometimes happens) without having to change the filename b) you're going to need to keep separate metadata for other reasons anyway - you may as well put all of the metadata in one place rather than have some of it in the filename and some of it elsewhere. c) more generally, the tools should exist to support the work rather than impose arbitrary restrictions on the work. which is not to say that the tools should not impose restrictions on how the metadata is used. but if you put some of the metadata in the filename, and tools depend on it being there, it's going to be harder to change, because some of the constraints on the use of that metadata will be artifacts of how the metadata is stored, rather than constraints chosen in such a way as to support IETF's work. _______________________________________________ Tools-discuss mailing list Tools-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Wed Mar 2 19:25:07 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA16340; Wed, 2 Mar 2005 19:25:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D6eAd-0007f4-TO; Wed, 02 Mar 2005 19:26:29 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D6e7Z-0001AI-Nr; Wed, 02 Mar 2005 19:23:17 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D6du4-0006LM-L5; Wed, 02 Mar 2005 19:09:20 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA14916; Wed, 2 Mar 2005 19:09:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from minbar.fac.cs.cmu.edu ([128.2.185.161]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D6dvK-0007EY-9a; Wed, 02 Mar 2005 19:10:38 -0500 Received: from SIRIUS.FAC.CS.CMU.EDU ([128.2.209.170]) by minbar.fac.cs.cmu.edu id aa29186; 2 Mar 2005 19:08 EST Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2005 19:08:54 -0500 From: Jeffrey Hutzelman To: stanislav shalunov , ietf@ietf.org Message-ID: <08B5D20352089D1D0247630F@sirius.fac.cs.cmu.edu> In-Reply-To: <86r7ixbosz.fsf_-_@abel.internet2.edu> References: <86u0ntevlw.fsf@abel.internet2.edu> <42260FC8.4090103@levkowetz.com> <86fyzdetlm.fsf@abel.internet2.edu> <86r7ixbosz.fsf_-_@abel.internet2.edu> Originator-Info: login-token=Mulberry:01mpwgBgQElXrm55iHzRpQdTEOVzEh0JkHEU5r0Bw=; token_authority=postmaster@andrew.cmu.edu X-Mailer: Mulberry/3.1.6 (Linux/x86) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: c0bedb65cce30976f0bf60a0a39edea4 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 02 Mar 2005 19:23:16 -0500 Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org Subject: [Tools-discuss] Re: indication of internet-draft status X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d0bdc596f8dd1c226c458f0b4df27a88 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Wednesday, March 02, 2005 06:39:24 PM -0500 stanislav shalunov wrote: > Context: The IETF Tools team works on requirements for various > automated tools for the IETF. Many of the tools have to deal with > internet-drafts; in these cases, the information whether an > internet-draft is a working group draft or a personal draft is > important. The mechanism by which such information is kept thus needs > to be known to the tools and, correspondingly, reflected in the > requirements. > > There appear to be at least three conceivable ways of keeping the > information about internet-draft status: > > 1. Internet-draft name: working group internet-drafts are always named > "draft-ietf-*", while personal drafts do not match this pattern. > For a working group internet-draft, the third component of the file > name is the working group abbreviation. When a personal > internet-draft becomes a working group item, or when a working > group item is no longer one, or when an internet-draft changes the > working group, the internet-draft gets republished under a new > name, without exception. (This could be automated in a way that > would ensure that name history is consistently and reliably > captured.) > > 2. Metadata kept separately: the file name has nothing to do with the > status, which is kept separately. The file name is stable and > never changes (other than the version number). The working group > status is prominently indicated by all tools (in announcement > subject lines, etc.). This vastly oversimplifies the situation, not leastwise by assuming that WG affiliation is the only interesting piece of metadata. There are really a lot of questions here: - MUST draft filenames change to reflect WG ownership? - MUST the "title" part of a draft be unique across all drafts? - Does the version number reset to 00 when WG ownership changes? - Which deadlines apply when? Is this based on version or history? - If a filename changes, how are the old and new files tied together? A lot of these are policy issues, not really within the scope of defining tools behaviour. Good tools will be able to deal with the various possible answers as we adjust policy based on whining and experimentation. With regard to design and implementation of tools, I think there is a principle which applies here. Filenames are JUST NAMES; their value is in their meaning to the humans who use them. They are not metadata, and software should not infer metadata from filenames any more than it should infer what services a host provides from its domain name (see other thread). Any I-D metadata needed by tools should be maintained in a suitable database, separate from the filenames, which tools should use _only_ to access files and as user-visible labels. Note that this principle does not require either (1) or (2) above, and it certainly does not require (3). In fact, it has the flexibility to support any of these scenarios, by making tools NOT CARE about what policies we choose to adopt for filenames. This is appropriate; tools should never dictate policy. -- Jeffrey T. Hutzelman (N3NHS) Sr. Research Systems Programmer School of Computer Science - Research Computing Facility Carnegie Mellon University - Pittsburgh, PA _______________________________________________ Tools-discuss mailing list Tools-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Wed Mar 2 19:25:18 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA16368; Wed, 2 Mar 2005 19:25:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D6eAp-0007fE-23; Wed, 02 Mar 2005 19:26:40 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D6e7Z-0001AN-SZ; Wed, 02 Mar 2005 19:23:17 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D6dwI-0006cc-Fx; Wed, 02 Mar 2005 19:11:38 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA15074; Wed, 2 Mar 2005 19:11:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from minbar.fac.cs.cmu.edu ([128.2.185.161]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D6dxX-0007H7-BI; Wed, 02 Mar 2005 19:12:56 -0500 Received: from SIRIUS.FAC.CS.CMU.EDU ([128.2.209.170]) by minbar.fac.cs.cmu.edu id aa29192; 2 Mar 2005 19:11 EST Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2005 19:11:10 -0500 From: Jeffrey Hutzelman To: Keith Moore , stanislav shalunov Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20050302185159.64520048.moore@cs.utk.edu> References: <86u0ntevlw.fsf@abel.internet2.edu> <42260FC8.4090103@levkowetz.com> <86fyzdetlm.fsf@abel.internet2.edu> <86r7ixbosz.fsf_-_@abel.internet2.edu> <20050302185159.64520048.moore@cs.utk.edu> Originator-Info: login-token=Mulberry:01p0BO8xGow2fzi8Z02r5+Yj6yhR4udMcUtXxY3cA=; token_authority=postmaster@andrew.cmu.edu X-Mailer: Mulberry/3.1.6 (Linux/x86) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 08170828343bcf1325e4a0fb4584481c Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 02 Mar 2005 19:23:16 -0500 Cc: ietf@ietf.org, tools-discuss@ietf.org Subject: [Tools-discuss] Re: indication of internet-draft status X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 79899194edc4f33a41f49410777972f8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Wednesday, March 02, 2005 06:51:59 PM -0500 Keith Moore wrote: >> Which way of >> keeping the status should the Tools team use in the requirements for >> the tools it is specifying? > > "2. Metadata kept separately" Good grief. You managed to say basically the same things as me, but more clearly and in half as much text. -- Jeff _______________________________________________ Tools-discuss mailing list Tools-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Fri Mar 4 15:06:48 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA27677; Fri, 4 Mar 2005 15:06:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D7J67-0004hS-5t; Fri, 04 Mar 2005 15:08:31 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D7J4Q-0000B8-GN; Fri, 04 Mar 2005 15:06:46 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D7J4Q-0000Aw-1I for tools-discuss@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 04 Mar 2005 15:06:46 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA27663 for ; Fri, 4 Mar 2005 15:06:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from av7-1-sn1.fre.skanova.net ([81.228.11.113]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D7J63-0004hB-SX for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Fri, 04 Mar 2005 15:08:28 -0500 Received: by av7-1-sn1.fre.skanova.net (Postfix, from userid 502) id 5BFCC37E49; Fri, 4 Mar 2005 21:06:37 +0100 (CET) Received: from smtp3-1-sn1.fre.skanova.net (smtp3-1-sn1.fre.skanova.net [81.228.11.163]) by av7-1-sn1.fre.skanova.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DFC337E43 for ; Fri, 4 Mar 2005 21:06:37 +0100 (CET) Received: from shiraz.levkowetz.com (h195n1fls311o871.telia.com [213.64.174.195]) by smtp3-1-sn1.fre.skanova.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E23537E57 for ; Fri, 4 Mar 2005 21:06:37 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by shiraz.levkowetz.com with esmtp (Exim 4.44) id 1D7J4G-0005Gb-TV for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Fri, 04 Mar 2005 21:06:37 +0100 Message-ID: <4228BFCC.9010302@levkowetz.com> Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2005 21:06:36 +0100 From: Henrik Levkowetz User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.9 (Macintosh/20041103) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Tools Team Discussion X-Enigmail-Version: 0.89.5.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------000503070903060001040103" X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 127.0.0.1 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on shiraz.levkowetz.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0770535483960d190d4a0d020e7060bd Subject: [Tools-discuss] [Fwd: Re: New tool prototypes] X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 1449ead51a2ff026dcb23465f5379250 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------000503070903060001040103 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Forwarding an interesting note from Fred Baker on the wg chairs list, relevant to the notification services in general and the draft notifications draft in particular. Henrik --------------000503070903060001040103 Content-Type: message/rfc822; name="Re: New tool prototypes" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Re: New tool prototypes" X-Account-Key: account1 Return-path: Envelope-to: henrik@levkowetz.com Delivery-date: Fri, 04 Mar 2005 19:33:46 +0100 Received: from sj-iport-5.cisco.com ([171.68.10.87]) by shiraz.levkowetz.com with esmtp (Exim 4.44) id 1D7HcO-0006WZ-MK for henrik@levkowetz.com; Fri, 04 Mar 2005 19:33:46 +0100 Received: from sj-core-4.cisco.com (171.68.223.138) by sj-iport-5.cisco.com with ESMTP; 04 Mar 2005 10:20:30 -0800 X-BrightmailFiltered: true X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-IronPort-AV: i="3.90,135,1107763200"; d="scan'208"; a="165291797:sNHT5469508282" Received: from mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com (IDENT:mirapoint@mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com [171.71.163.14]) by sj-core-4.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j24IKGYO014950; Fri, 4 Mar 2005 10:20:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.32.244.222] (stealth-10-32-244-222.cisco.com [10.32.244.222]) by mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com (MOS 3.4.5-GR) with SMTP id BCL86134; Fri, 4 Mar 2005 10:20:15 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <42284FBF.1010806@levkowetz.com> References: <42284FBF.1010806@levkowetz.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: Cc: WG Chairs From: Baker Fred Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 10:20:14 -0800 To: Henrik Levkowetz X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 171.68.10.87 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: fred@cisco.com Subject: Re: New tool prototypes X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Tue, 25 Jan 2005 19:36:50 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on shiraz.levkowetz.com) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.2 (2004-11-16) on shiraz.levkowetz.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=2.5 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.0.2 X-Destination-Folder: /home/henrik/Mail//folks/B/Baker_Fred X-UID: 34721 X-Keywords: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks much for this. I have been looking at what the best way might be to stay on top of changes in drafts related to a working group. I have been thinking about possibly using one of the paid or free "web site watching" services, or installing one of several PERL or AppleScript applications on my own computer. It would be *really*nice* if somewhere, perhaps in the I-D tracker, a "tickle" function could be installed. What I'm looking for is, as a working group chair, to have the working group chairs notified by email whenever a new draft is posted that claims to have relevance to my WG. That would be any draft-ietf- draft, or any personal submission draft--. There are four possible actions that I was WG chair might then do: - draft---*-00.txt invite discussion on the WG mailer, with a view to determining whether this is really appropriate to the WG and is really a good solution to its stated problem - other draft---* discuss draft with authors - draft-ietf--*-00.txt note to working group encouraging people to comment on the mailer - other draft-ietf--* note to authors copying WG asking them to summarize changes and inviting discussion In addition, whenever the ID tracker changes status for my WG (at most once per day), I would like myself and my co-chair to receive an email noting that there was a change and summarizing the change. For example, it might include as an attachment the html page that would result from opening the ID tracker and typing in my WG's name, but with diff marking highlighting what changed (the state of a given draft changed or whatever). In addition, whenever the ID tracker changes *detail* status for a draft in my WG (at most once per day), I want the authors to be sent a note, copying the chairs and the WG, indicating the state change and containing the URL. For example, if an AD enters a note, the authors would get a tickle email. I would (obviously) have to say who the authors were. I can do part of that from services like http://www.changedetect.com/, and maybe that is the right solution in the near term. What the services I see won't give me is the ability to list other recipients for the email like my co-chair or the authors, or the WG, or to tell me about new drafts being posted. So I'm not completely wacko... Maybe I just need to do some scripting? On Mar 4, 2005, at 4:08 AM, Henrik Levkowetz wrote: > > Two prototypes of new tools for the IETF community are now available > from > the Tools-team website, http://tools.ietf.org/ : > 1. Workgroup agenda pages with embedded html links to all drafts > and URLs > referred to in the agendas: http://tools.ietf.org/agenda/62/ > > 2. Workgroup status pages showing the current status of the drafts > belonging to a workgroup: http://tools.ietf.org/wg/ > > There are links from the html-ized agenda page to both the html-ized WG > agendas and to the WG status pages, and links from the WG status pages > to the > WG agendas. > > As these are prototypes, they are not expected to be perfect or > complete, > but they are expected to be useful to the community as-is, and comments > on functionality, missing features and bugs are welcome! > > Comments will be taken as input to specification of full-fledged > versions > of similar tools, and may also be fed back into the prototypes. > > > Henrik > > _______________________________________________ > IETF-Announce mailing list > IETF-Announce@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce > --------------000503070903060001040103 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit _______________________________________________ Tools-discuss mailing list Tools-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss --------------000503070903060001040103-- From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Fri Mar 4 15:47:09 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA02200; Fri, 4 Mar 2005 15:47:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D7JjA-0005ZO-Qb; Fri, 04 Mar 2005 15:48:53 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D7Jh6-0007Vb-KZ; Fri, 04 Mar 2005 15:46:44 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D7Jh6-0007UE-2A for tools-discuss@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 04 Mar 2005 15:46:44 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA02173 for ; Fri, 4 Mar 2005 15:46:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from av3-1-sn4.m-sp.skanova.net ([81.228.10.114]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D7Jij-0005YU-Cl for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Fri, 04 Mar 2005 15:48:25 -0500 Received: by av3-1-sn4.m-sp.skanova.net (Postfix, from userid 502) id ADCBD37E56; Fri, 4 Mar 2005 21:46:33 +0100 (CET) Received: from smtp2-2-sn4.m-sp.skanova.net (smtp2-2-sn4.m-sp.skanova.net [81.228.10.182]) by av3-1-sn4.m-sp.skanova.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F33537E45; Fri, 4 Mar 2005 21:46:33 +0100 (CET) Received: from shiraz.levkowetz.com (h195n1fls311o871.telia.com [213.64.174.195]) by smtp2-2-sn4.m-sp.skanova.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FDA737E58; Fri, 4 Mar 2005 21:46:31 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by shiraz.levkowetz.com with esmtp (Exim 4.44) id 1D7Jgs-0003Bl-Tg; Fri, 04 Mar 2005 21:46:31 +0100 Message-ID: <4228C926.7000508@levkowetz.com> Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2005 21:46:30 +0100 From: Henrik Levkowetz User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.9 (Macintosh/20041103) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Thomas Narten References: <200501251912.j0PJCTO9020857@rotala.raleigh.ibm.com> <42057791.7070001@levkowetz.com> In-Reply-To: <42057791.7070001@levkowetz.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.89.5.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 127.0.0.1 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on shiraz.levkowetz.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 67c1ea29f88502ef6a32ccec927970f0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Tools Team Discussion Subject: [Tools-discuss] Re: [Tools-team] tool suggestion for MPLS IETF X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 2086112c730e13d5955355df27e3074b Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thomas, Following up on the conversation below, and adding the tools-discuss list to the recipients, you can now fetch an off-line viewable snapshot of the agenda of a particular WG, with associated drafts, by doing a wget of the html-ized agenda page at http://tools.ietf.org/ . For an individual workgroup I'd suggest using this wget incantation: (change "tools" to whatever subdirectory name takes your fancy, and replace with the appropriate WG acronym) wget -pkKEr -nH -l2 -P tools http://tools.ietf.org/agenda/62/.html For all the agendas and all associated drafts, and also the wg status page for each WG, use the following instead: (note the change in number of levels to retrieve, "-l3" instead of "-l2" above, and the absence of a specific WG name) wget -pkKEr -nH -l3 -P tools http://tools.ietf.org/agenda/62/ Henrik On 2005-02-06 2:49 am Henrik Levkowetz said the following: > Thomas, > > Returning to your suggestion (below) and trying to get a handle on > the requirements for this, it seems to me that the task is split into > two parts: Presentation part, and update part. > > For the presentation part, it could be done by one page which simply > listed the workgroup names as a long list of links to individual pages, > or it could be a bit more fancy, basically using the IETF-62 agenda > as a starting point, and linking off that; pretty much matching the > format of the agenda-page in html-format which the secretariat provides, > but adding the html links to drafts, RFCs and other URLs. > > Is either of these options what you had in mind? > > One sample of the latter is available at > http://ietf.levkowetz.com/schedule/?url=http://www.ietf.org/meetings/agenda_61.html > but has the drawback that it has kept the secretariat-provided links > to the charters -- if you want to be able to get this by an rsync or > similar to have it available off line, I guess you'd prefer not to > have those link in there. > > Is it important that the whole set of agendas be available by rsync, > or would wget also be acceptable? > > For the update part, it could be done pretty easily by using a wiki > page per workgroup (as already suggested). which would require that > agendas always be entered in the wiki (and updated there) as well as > sent in to the secretariat. Or it could be a bit more fancy, providing > fallback to the wg-agendas from the secretariat if no newer one had been > entered through the wiki; which would be easier on the chairs, but require > a bit more work to put together. > > Does these options match what you had in mind, or is there some non- > obvious drawback to using a wiki? (The obvious one being no access > control - anybody could update any agenda...) > > One alternative I'm considering is to extract the email addresses > of the chairs of each workgroup from the charter pages, and arrange > for agenda updates by email, where the sender email would have to match > the workgroup for an update to go through. This would probably be a > bit more custom programming than going with the wiki, though. > > Comments? > > Henrik > > > On 2005-01-25 8:12 pm Thomas Narten said the following: >> Recalling a discussion from the last IETF, it sure would be nice if >> there was a single web page that listed all WG agendas, and the >> agendas were actually up-to-date. >> >> Problem statement: >> >> WG agendas should be collected on a single page, and be updatable in >> essentially real-time, even during the WG meetings; can't we just have >> a tool that does this? >> >> requirements (?) >> - viewable via browser of course, should be html to support links >> (e.g., to IDs, etc.). But .txt file works too. >> - single rsync/wget to get a snapshot of entire set of agendas >> (e.g., before getting onto plane) >> - chairs can update as often as they like (in real time), >> including moments before their WG meeting. >> - simple format/interface is fine -- each chair gets to update >> one file (i.e, their agenda). so, need the equivalent of >> allowing a restricted "scp" to update a page >> - run without secretariate help, so CNRI doesn't have be involved >> (they have enough to do around meeting times anyway, it >> seems. Plus, we want this to be done completely through software.) >> - might be useful to have a secondary tool that sends reminders to >> chairs of wgs that don't have agendas listed, at least to get >> at least an initial agenda posted... But that is detail... >> >> (might be more requirements...) >> >> Thoughts? >> >> What about running a prototype/experiment that attempts the above and >> then evaluate how it works? We do it ourselves, on our own (non-CNRI) >> web site, and ask WG-chairs to participate. >> >> Thomas > > _______________________________________________ > Tools-team mailing list > Tools-team@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team > _______________________________________________ Tools-discuss mailing list Tools-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Fri Mar 4 17:12:01 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA10569; Fri, 4 Mar 2005 17:12:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D7L3K-0007iX-BC; Fri, 04 Mar 2005 17:13:46 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D7L0Y-0005e9-VU; Fri, 04 Mar 2005 17:10:54 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D7KIm-000617-Ft for tools-discuss@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 04 Mar 2005 16:25:40 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA04890 for ; Fri, 4 Mar 2005 16:25:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from almso2.att.com ([192.128.166.71] helo=almso2.proxy.att.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D7KKP-0006Tt-5V for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Fri, 04 Mar 2005 16:27:22 -0500 Received: from maillennium.att.com ([135.25.114.99]) by almso2.proxy.att.com (AT&T IPNS/MSO-5.5) with ESMTP id j24LPT8Q026299 for ; Fri, 4 Mar 2005 16:25:29 -0500 Received: from [135.70.1.105] (unknown[135.70.1.105](misconfigured sender)) by maillennium.att.com (mailgw1) with ESMTP id <20050304212506gw100fm4pee> (Authid: tony); Fri, 4 Mar 2005 21:25:06 +0000 Message-ID: <4228D23F.5020604@att.com> Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2005 16:25:19 -0500 From: Tony Hansen User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Henrik Levkowetz Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] [Fwd: Re: New tool prototypes] References: <4228BFCC.9010302@levkowetz.com> In-Reply-To: <4228BFCC.9010302@levkowetz.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 92df29fa99cf13e554b84c8374345c17 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 04 Mar 2005 17:10:54 -0500 Cc: Tools Team Discussion X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 00e94c813bef7832af255170dca19e36 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think what Fred is proposing would have lots of uses, not only for WG chairs but for anyone who is interested in the documents of a particular set of working groups. Of course, it assumes and perpetuates the notion that WG documents are named draft-ietf-WG, a topic that was recently discussed separately. Tony Hansen tony@att.com Henrik Levkowetz wrote: > Forwarding an interesting note from Fred Baker on the wg chairs list, > relevant to the notification services in general and the draft > notifications draft in particular. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: Re: New tool prototypes > From: Baker Fred > Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 10:20:14 -0800 > To: Henrik Levkowetz > > I have been looking at what the best way might be to stay on top of > changes in drafts related to a working group. I have been thinking about > possibly using one of the paid or free "web site watching" services, or > installing one of several PERL or AppleScript applications on my own > computer. It would be *really*nice* if somewhere, perhaps in the I-D > tracker, a "tickle" function could be installed. > > What I'm looking for is, as a working group chair, to have the working > group chairs notified by email whenever a new draft is posted that > claims to have relevance to my WG. That would be any draft-ietf- > draft, or any personal submission draft--. There are four > possible actions that I was WG chair might then do: > > - draft---*-00.txt > invite discussion on the WG mailer, with a view to determining > whether this is really appropriate to the WG and is really a good > solution to its stated problem > > - other draft---* > discuss draft with authors > > - draft-ietf--*-00.txt > note to working group encouraging people to comment on the mailer > > - other draft-ietf--* > note to authors copying WG asking them to summarize changes and > inviting discussion > > In addition, whenever the ID tracker changes status for my WG (at most > once per day), I would like myself and my co-chair to receive an email > noting that there was a change and summarizing the change. For example, > it might include as an attachment the html page that would result from > opening the ID tracker and typing in my WG's name, but with diff marking > highlighting what changed (the state of a given draft changed or whatever). > > In addition, whenever the ID tracker changes *detail* status for a draft > in my WG (at most once per day), I want the authors to be sent a note, > copying the chairs and the WG, indicating the state change and > containing the URL. For example, if an AD enters a note, the authors > would get a tickle email. I would (obviously) have to say who the > authors were. > > I can do part of that from services like http://www.changedetect.com/, > and maybe that is the right solution in the near term. What the services > I see won't give me is the ability to list other recipients for the > email like my co-chair or the authors, or the WG, or to tell me about > new drafts being posted. So I'm not completely wacko... > > Maybe I just need to do some scripting? _______________________________________________ Tools-discuss mailing list Tools-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Fri Mar 4 18:09:27 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA15325; Fri, 4 Mar 2005 18:09:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D7Lwu-0000Wq-DV; Fri, 04 Mar 2005 18:11:13 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D7Luz-00066j-VH; Fri, 04 Mar 2005 18:09:13 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D7Lux-00066e-RW for tools-discuss@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 04 Mar 2005 18:09:12 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA15281 for ; Fri, 4 Mar 2005 18:09:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from sj-iport-2-in.cisco.com ([171.71.176.71] helo=sj-iport-2.cisco.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D7Lwb-0000WY-ME for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Fri, 04 Mar 2005 18:10:54 -0500 Received: from sj-core-1.cisco.com (171.71.177.237) by sj-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 04 Mar 2005 15:22:18 -0800 Received: from mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com (IDENT:mirapoint@mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com [171.71.163.14]) by sj-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j24N8uuC024625; Fri, 4 Mar 2005 15:08:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.32.244.222] (stealth-10-32-244-222.cisco.com [10.32.244.222]) by mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com (MOS 3.4.5-GR) with SMTP id BCM22201; Fri, 4 Mar 2005 15:08:58 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <4228D23F.5020604@att.com> References: <4228BFCC.9010302@levkowetz.com> <4228D23F.5020604@att.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Baker Fred Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] [Fwd: Re: New tool prototypes] Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 15:08:57 -0800 To: Tony Hansen X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7bac9cb154eb5790ae3b2913587a40de Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Henrik Levkowetz , Tools Team Discussion X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 08170828343bcf1325e4a0fb4584481c Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Mar 4, 2005, at 1:25 PM, Tony Hansen wrote: > Of course, it assumes and perpetuates the notion that WG documents are > named draft-ietf-WG, a topic that was recently discussed separately. In my WG, they are... But that said, I have 38 sites I am monitoring, 36 of which are documents somewhere in the IETF mill, about 8 of which are mine personally. The concept, as you say, is in no sense limited to WG documents. _______________________________________________ Tools-discuss mailing list Tools-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Fri Mar 4 18:22:08 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA17326; Fri, 4 Mar 2005 18:22:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D7M9C-0000pb-Fy; Fri, 04 Mar 2005 18:23:54 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D7M5a-0007nU-Qx; Fri, 04 Mar 2005 18:20:10 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D7M5Y-0007mw-C7 for tools-discuss@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 04 Mar 2005 18:20:08 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA17077 for ; Fri, 4 Mar 2005 18:20:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from salvelinus.brooktrout.com ([204.176.205.6]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D7M7D-0000ll-20 for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Fri, 04 Mar 2005 18:21:51 -0500 Received: from nhmail2.needham.brooktrout.com (nhmail2.brooktrout.com [204.176.205.242]) by salvelinus.brooktrout.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id j24NFIhH007121 for ; Fri, 4 Mar 2005 18:15:18 -0500 (EST) Received: by nhmail2.brooktrout.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Fri, 4 Mar 2005 18:11:22 -0500 Message-ID: From: Eric Burger To: tools-discuss@ietf.org Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 18:11:22 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: a8a20a483a84f747e56475e290ee868e Subject: [Tools-discuss] RE: indication of internet-draft status X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: a7d2e37451f7f22841e3b6f40c67db0f I would add that it is much easier to track the history of a document if it keeps it's name as it gets passed through Individual->WG A->WG B->Back to Individual, rather than discovering that some draft has been discussed thoroughly before (under a different name). > -----Original Message----- > From: ietf-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ietf-bounces@ietf.org]On Behalf Of > Jeffrey Hutzelman > Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 7:09 PM > To: stanislav shalunov; ietf@ietf.org > Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org > Subject: Re: indication of internet-draft status > > > > > On Wednesday, March 02, 2005 06:39:24 PM -0500 stanislav shalunov > wrote: > > > Context: The IETF Tools team works on requirements for various > > automated tools for the IETF. Many of the tools have to deal with > > internet-drafts; in these cases, the information whether an > > internet-draft is a working group draft or a personal draft is > > important. The mechanism by which such information is kept > thus needs > > to be known to the tools and, correspondingly, reflected in the > > requirements. > > > > There appear to be at least three conceivable ways of keeping the > > information about internet-draft status: > > > > 1. Internet-draft name: working group internet-drafts are > always named > > "draft-ietf-*", while personal drafts do not match this pattern. > > For a working group internet-draft, the third component > of the file > > name is the working group abbreviation. When a personal > > internet-draft becomes a working group item, or when a working > > group item is no longer one, or when an internet-draft > changes the > > working group, the internet-draft gets republished under a new > > name, without exception. (This could be automated in a way that > > would ensure that name history is consistently and reliably > > captured.) > > > > 2. Metadata kept separately: the file name has nothing to > do with the > > status, which is kept separately. The file name is stable and > > never changes (other than the version number). The working group > > status is prominently indicated by all tools (in announcement > > subject lines, etc.). > > This vastly oversimplifies the situation, not leastwise by > assuming that WG > affiliation is the only interesting piece of metadata. There > are really a > lot of questions here: > > - MUST draft filenames change to reflect WG ownership? > - MUST the "title" part of a draft be unique across all drafts? > - Does the version number reset to 00 when WG ownership changes? > - Which deadlines apply when? Is this based on version or history? > - If a filename changes, how are the old and new files tied together? > > A lot of these are policy issues, not really within the scope > of defining > tools behaviour. Good tools will be able to deal with the > various possible > answers as we adjust policy based on whining and experimentation. > > With regard to design and implementation of tools, I think there is a > principle which applies here. Filenames are JUST NAMES; > their value is in > their meaning to the humans who use them. They are not metadata, and > software should not infer metadata from filenames any more > than it should > infer what services a host provides from its domain name (see other > thread). Any I-D metadata needed by tools should be maintained in a > suitable database, separate from the filenames, which tools > should use > _only_ to access files and as user-visible labels. > > Note that this principle does not require either (1) or (2) > above, and it > certainly does not require (3). In fact, it has the > flexibility to support > any of these scenarios, by making tools NOT CARE about what > policies we > choose to adopt for filenames. This is appropriate; tools > should never > dictate policy. > > -- Jeffrey T. Hutzelman (N3NHS) > Sr. Research Systems Programmer > School of Computer Science - Research Computing Facility > Carnegie Mellon University - Pittsburgh, PA > > > _______________________________________________ > Ietf mailing list > Ietf@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf > _______________________________________________ Tools-discuss mailing list Tools-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Mon Mar 7 13:49:42 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA20721; Mon, 7 Mar 2005 13:49:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D8NKl-0003J8-EI; Mon, 07 Mar 2005 13:52:04 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D8NI8-0000IJ-A1; Mon, 07 Mar 2005 13:49:20 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D8NI5-0000Hy-7q for tools-discuss@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 07 Mar 2005 13:49:18 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA20641 for ; Mon, 7 Mar 2005 13:49:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from measurement-factory.com ([206.168.0.5]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D8NKG-0003I5-4z for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Mon, 07 Mar 2005 13:51:34 -0500 Received: from pail.measurement-factory.com (nat.measurement-factory.com [206.168.0.3]) by measurement-factory.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j27In63a007420; Mon, 7 Mar 2005 11:49:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rousskov@measurement-factory.com) Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2005 11:48:26 -0700 To: "Eric Burger" , tools-discuss@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] RE: indication of internet-draft status References: From: "Alex Rousskov" Organization: The Measurement Factory Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Opera M2/7.54 (FreeBSD, build 955) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0bc60ec82efc80c84b8d02f4b0e4de22 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: b19722fc8d3865b147c75ae2495625f2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Fri, 2005/03/04 (MST), wrote: > I would add that it is much easier to track the history of a document if > it keeps it's name as it gets passed through Individual->WG A->WG > B->Back to > Individual, rather than discovering that some draft has been discussed > thoroughly before (under a different name). Constant name makes tracking easier if you do manual tracking and interested in all the states of the named draft. In many other cases, it is arguably harder. For example, if I am only interested in official WG A documents, then I do not care about "individual" and "WG B" states. I believe the "ease" of tracking becomes a non-issue if tracking is done by software; only interface (i.e., ability to specify what is it that you want to track) matters then. This is an argument for removing all state information from draft names. A draft name becomes a persistent opaque identifier so that meta-info can change at will and nobody tries to extract meta-info from the draft name. While I am almost sure that opaque identifiers are a better design, I am not sure IETF can support such a significant departure from the current state. I am sure many people rely on draft filenames too much to make such a transition easy. On the other hand, we can, in theory, provide access based on both old-name and opaque-id during the transition period (with an automated N:1 mapping). Alex. _______________________________________________ Tools-discuss mailing list Tools-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Mon Mar 7 14:02:32 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA21861; Mon, 7 Mar 2005 14:02:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D8NXA-0003gE-Sc; Mon, 07 Mar 2005 14:04:53 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D8NS2-0001w9-EI; Mon, 07 Mar 2005 13:59:34 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D8NS1-0001w4-Fx for tools-discuss@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 07 Mar 2005 13:59:33 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA21626 for ; Mon, 7 Mar 2005 13:59:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from measurement-factory.com ([206.168.0.5]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D8NUE-0003bi-86 for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Mon, 07 Mar 2005 14:01:52 -0500 Received: from pail.measurement-factory.com (nat.measurement-factory.com [206.168.0.3]) by measurement-factory.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j27IxT3a007674 for ; Mon, 7 Mar 2005 11:59:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rousskov@measurement-factory.com) Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2005 11:58:49 -0700 To: "Tools Team Discussion" Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] [Fwd: Re: New tool prototypes] References: <4228BFCC.9010302@levkowetz.com> From: "Alex Rousskov" Organization: The Measurement Factory Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4228BFCC.9010302@levkowetz.com> User-Agent: Opera M2/7.54 (FreeBSD, build 955) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 856eb5f76e7a34990d1d457d8e8e5b7f Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7655788c23eb79e336f5f8ba8bce7906 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Fri, 2005/03/04 (MST), wrote: > Forwarding an interesting note from Fred Baker on the wg chairs list, > relevant to the notification services in general and the draft > notifications draft in particular. IMO, the current notification draft (or its intent) should already address most Fred's needs. The one important feature that we need to think about is aggregating of events. Fred wants "one notification about X per day". Current draft does not seem to address it well. We need to decide where aggregation fits into the notification architecture. Note that aggregation is yet another argument for having a generic layer because most aggregation logic is likely to be independent from the event generator type. Thanks, Alex. _______________________________________________ Tools-discuss mailing list Tools-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Wed Mar 9 09:17:38 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA06002; Wed, 9 Mar 2005 09:17:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D922w-0008W2-A4; Wed, 09 Mar 2005 09:20:22 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D91zP-0003WB-IZ; Wed, 09 Mar 2005 09:16:43 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D91zN-0003W3-UT for tools-discuss@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 09 Mar 2005 09:16:42 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA05863 for ; Wed, 9 Mar 2005 09:16:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from sj-iport-3-in.cisco.com ([171.71.176.72] helo=sj-iport-3.cisco.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D921y-0008Ts-IJ for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Wed, 09 Mar 2005 09:19:22 -0500 Received: from sj-core-1.cisco.com (171.71.177.237) by sj-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 09 Mar 2005 07:33:46 +0000 X-BrightmailFiltered: true X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-IronPort-AV: i="3.90,150,1107734400"; d="scan'208"; a="233072276:sNHT21169900" Received: from mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com (IDENT:mirapoint@mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com [171.71.163.14]) by sj-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j29EGPuC016096; Wed, 9 Mar 2005 06:16:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.84.118.98] (sjc-vpn5-327.cisco.com [10.21.89.71]) by mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com (MOS 3.4.5-GR) with ESMTP id BCQ02506; Wed, 9 Mar 2005 06:16:28 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Baker Fred Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2005 08:16:27 -0600 To: Pekka Savola X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 34d35111647d654d033d58d318c0d21a Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Discussion Team Tools Subject: [Tools-discuss] Re: document status and other WG information X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: e1b0e72ff1bbd457ceef31828f216a86 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My only problem with it is that it tells me a lot about drafts that are already expired and nothing about a number of private submissions to v6ops that the working group is, in at least some cases, actively tracking, and will be presented this morning. A diff between the sorted list of drafts mentioned on the tools page and the currently-posted draft-*-v6ops-* files: 1,2c1,5 < draft-palet-v6tc-goals-tunneling < draft-pouffary-v6ops-ent-v6net --- > draft-choi-v6ops-natpt-ipsec > draft-chown-v6ops-campus-transition > draft-chown-v6ops-renumber-thinkabout > draft-chown-v6ops-vlan-usage > draft-huitema-v6ops-teredo 4,6d6 < draft-ietf-v6ops-3gpp-cases < draft-ietf-v6ops-3gpp-ipv6use < draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-security 8d7 < draft-ietf-v6ops-assisted-tunneling-requirements 12,22d10 < draft-ietf-v6ops-entnet-scenarios < draft-ietf-v6ops-ipv4survey < draft-ietf-v6ops-ipv4survey-apps < draft-ietf-v6ops-ipv4survey-gen < draft-ietf-v6ops-ipv4survey-int < draft-ietf-v6ops-ipv4survey-intro < draft-ietf-v6ops-ipv4survey-ops < draft-ietf-v6ops-ipv4survey-routing < draft-ietf-v6ops-ipv4survey-sec < draft-ietf-v6ops-ipv4survey-subip < draft-ietf-v6ops-ipv4survey-trans 28,29d15 < draft-ietf-v6ops-unman-scenarios < draft-ietf-v6ops-unmaneval 30a17,27 > draft-larsson-v6ops-mip-scenarios > draft-liumin-v6ops-silkroad > draft-ooms-v6ops-bgp-tunnel > draft-palet-v6ops-auto-trans > draft-palet-v6ops-ipv6security > draft-palet-v6ops-solution-tun-auto-disc > draft-palet-v6ops-tun-auto-disc > draft-savola-v6ops-security-overview > draft-tschofenig-v6ops-secure-tunnels > draft-vandevelde-v6ops-nap > draft-vives-v6ops-ipv6-security-ps It is the ones with the ">" symbol that I need information on. Tell me: how are these pages maintained? I suspect that the information came from the chairs of the WG. Let me throw out another thought. I can get a current list of WG and personal submissions to v6ops from https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/pidtracker.cgi? command=search_list&search_job_owner=0&search_group_acronym=&search_stat us_id=&search_cur_state=&sub_state_id=6&search_filename=v6ops&search_rfc number=&search_area_acronym=&search_button=SEARCH What I really now need is an annotation of some sort as to what the WG chair thinks of a personal submission that the AD is not yet tracking - - has not yet been picked up by the chair, or - moved to some other WG and therefore replaced with another draft, - is being tracked by the WG chair, - is relevant to a discussion the WG has decided to not follow up on. This last makes it truly a personal submission to the IETF. Other than "replaced by", which requires an actual text entry, these may simply be additional states in the state table... On Mar 9, 2005, at 8:07 AM, Tim Chown wrote: > It would be very nice to see current personal drafts under v6ops there > too... > > On Wed, Mar 09, 2005 at 03:44:49PM +0200, Pekka Savola wrote: >> Hi, >> >> The proto team has developed a couple of very nice pages, e.g., to >> better illustrate the document status of a WG. >> >> Please take a look at it at: >> http://tools.ietf.org/wg/v6ops/ >> >> -- >> Pekka Savola "You each name yourselves king, yet the >> Netcore Oy kingdom bleeds." >> Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings > > -- > Tim _______________________________________________ Tools-discuss mailing list Tools-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Wed Mar 9 09:36:52 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA08298; Wed, 9 Mar 2005 09:36:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D92LY-0000jp-Nj; Wed, 09 Mar 2005 09:39:36 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D92DZ-0005A0-Gd; Wed, 09 Mar 2005 09:31:21 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D92DY-00059t-Is for tools-discuss@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 09 Mar 2005 09:31:20 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA07419 for ; Wed, 9 Mar 2005 09:31:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from netcore.fi ([193.94.160.1]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D92G9-0000SN-8X for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Wed, 09 Mar 2005 09:34:02 -0500 Received: from localhost (pekkas@localhost) by netcore.fi (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id j29EV1c04898; Wed, 9 Mar 2005 16:31:01 +0200 Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2005 16:31:01 +0200 (EET) From: Pekka Savola To: Baker Fred In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7baded97d9887f7a0c7e8a33c2e3ea1b Cc: Discussion Team Tools Subject: [Tools-discuss] Re: document status and other WG information X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: cab78e1e39c4b328567edb48482b6a69 On Wed, 9 Mar 2005, Baker Fred wrote: > My only problem with it is that it tells me a lot about drafts that are > already expired and nothing about a number of private submissions to v6ops > that the working group is, in at least some cases, actively tracking, and > will be presented this morning. Yes, this shortcoming is known by the tools team, and likely addressed at some point. > It is the ones with the ">" symbol that I need information on. Sure. It just does not list personal submissions at this point. > Tell me: how are these pages maintained? I suspect that the information came > from the chairs of the WG. Let me throw out another thought. Automatically based on I-D announcements and the I-D database, I think. The chairs have no say on what goes on these pages. (Except on the tools-discuss and wgchairs lists :) > What I really now need is an annotation of some sort as to what the WG chair > thinks of a personal submission that the AD is not yet tracking - > - has not yet been picked up by the chair, or > - moved to some other WG and therefore replaced with another draft, > - is being tracked by the WG chair, > - is relevant to a discussion the WG has decided to not follow up on. > > This last makes it truly a personal submission to the IETF. Other than > "replaced by", which requires an actual text entry, these may simply be > additional states in the state table... Yes, I agree this would be highly useful if the page were to include the personal submissions. There should be a pretty strong disclaimer or a note by the chairs what's the intention (and relevance) of these submissions. -- Pekka Savola "You each name yourselves king, yet the Netcore Oy kingdom bleeds." Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings _______________________________________________ Tools-discuss mailing list Tools-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Wed Mar 9 13:34:47 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA05251; Wed, 9 Mar 2005 13:34:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D963r-0007Ro-33; Wed, 09 Mar 2005 13:37:35 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D960u-0002Un-Ba; Wed, 09 Mar 2005 13:34:32 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D960s-0002Ua-H1 for tools-discuss@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 09 Mar 2005 13:34:30 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA05195 for ; Wed, 9 Mar 2005 13:34:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from av1-2-sn4.m-sp.skanova.net ([81.228.10.115]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D963W-0007Q0-CX for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Wed, 09 Mar 2005 13:37:14 -0500 Received: by av1-2-sn4.m-sp.skanova.net (Postfix, from userid 502) id E7FEF37E90; Wed, 9 Mar 2005 19:34:13 +0100 (CET) Received: from smtp2-1-sn4.m-sp.skanova.net (smtp2-1-sn4.m-sp.skanova.net [81.228.10.183]) by av1-2-sn4.m-sp.skanova.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA2A537E52; Wed, 9 Mar 2005 19:34:13 +0100 (CET) Received: from shiraz.levkowetz.com (h195n1fls311o871.telia.com [213.64.174.195]) by smtp2-1-sn4.m-sp.skanova.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7F8237E51; Wed, 9 Mar 2005 19:34:13 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by shiraz.levkowetz.com with esmtp (Exim 4.44) id 1D960b-00031g-8G; Wed, 09 Mar 2005 19:34:13 +0100 Message-ID: <422F419A.3050402@levkowetz.com> Date: Wed, 09 Mar 2005 12:34:02 -0600 From: Henrik Levkowetz User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.9 (Macintosh/20041103) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Pekka Savola Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Re: document status and other WG information References: In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 0.89.5.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 127.0.0.1 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on shiraz.levkowetz.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0a7aa2e6e558383d84476dc338324fab Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Baker Fred , Discussion Team Tools X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 244a2fd369eaf00ce6820a760a3de2e8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit on 2005-03-09 8:31 am Pekka Savola said the following: > On Wed, 9 Mar 2005, Baker Fred wrote: >> My only problem with it is that it tells me a lot about drafts that are >> already expired and nothing about a number of private submissions to v6ops >> that the working group is, in at least some cases, actively tracking, and >> will be presented this morning. > > Yes, this shortcoming is known by the tools team, and likely addressed > at some point. Correct. It's high on my TO-DO list for the WG Status pages. >> It is the ones with the ">" symbol that I need information on. > > Sure. It just does not list personal submissions at this point. > >> Tell me: how are these pages maintained? I suspect that the information came >> from the chairs of the WG. Let me throw out another thought. > > Automatically based on I-D announcements and the I-D database, I > think. The chairs have no say on what goes on these pages. (Except on > the tools-discuss and wgchairs lists :) The pages are generated automatically based on information published by the secretariat - the drafts themselves, and the files 1wg_charter.txt, 1wg_summary.txt, all_id.txt, 1id-abstracts.txt, and 1id-index.txt Just yesterday the secretariat developer Mile Lee on request added a feature to the I-D tracker and I-D db web interfaces which permits me to query tracker and db information by exact explicit draft name - this will let me add information to the draft pages which is not in the above files, but is in the tracker / database. >> What I really now need is an annotation of some sort as to what the WG chair >> thinks of a personal submission that the AD is not yet tracking - >> - has not yet been picked up by the chair, or >> - moved to some other WG and therefore replaced with another draft, >> - is being tracked by the WG chair, >> - is relevant to a discussion the WG has decided to not follow up on. >> >> This last makes it truly a personal submission to the IETF. Other than >> "replaced by", which requires an actual text entry, these may simply be >> additional states in the state table... > > Yes, I agree this would be highly useful if the page were to include > the personal submissions. There should be a pretty strong disclaimer > or a note by the chairs what's the intention (and relevance) of these > submissions. I have planned to give _chairs_ the ability to add notes relevant to any draft, which will be shown on the WG draft status pages. Are you indicating that it would be helpful to also give the _draft authors_ the ability to add annotations about individual drafts, so that these annotations also show up on the draft status pages? Henrik _______________________________________________ Tools-discuss mailing list Tools-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Wed Mar 9 14:08:30 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA08661; Wed, 9 Mar 2005 14:08:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D96aS-0008Qh-Qk; Wed, 09 Mar 2005 14:11:17 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D96X0-0007zP-8O; Wed, 09 Mar 2005 14:07:42 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D96Wy-0007zA-Nw for tools-discuss@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 09 Mar 2005 14:07:40 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA08595 for ; Wed, 9 Mar 2005 14:07:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from netcore.fi ([193.94.160.1]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D96Zb-0008Ov-MS for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Wed, 09 Mar 2005 14:10:25 -0500 Received: from localhost (pekkas@localhost) by netcore.fi (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id j29J6NI12436; Wed, 9 Mar 2005 21:06:23 +0200 Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2005 21:06:23 +0200 (EET) From: Pekka Savola To: Henrik Levkowetz Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Re: document status and other WG information In-Reply-To: <422F419A.3050402@levkowetz.com> Message-ID: References: <422F419A.3050402@levkowetz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 79899194edc4f33a41f49410777972f8 Cc: Baker Fred , Discussion Team Tools X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9182cfff02fae4f1b6e9349e01d62f32 On Wed, 9 Mar 2005, Henrik Levkowetz wrote: >> Yes, I agree this would be highly useful if the page were to include >> the personal submissions. There should be a pretty strong disclaimer >> or a note by the chairs what's the intention (and relevance) of these >> submissions. > > I have planned to give _chairs_ the ability to add notes relevant to > any draft, which will be shown on the WG draft status pages. > > Are you indicating that it would be helpful to also give the _draft > authors_ the ability to add annotations about individual drafts, so > that these annotations also show up on the draft status pages? At least I think this information should be writable by the WG chairs (and maybe WG secretary, if any) only. -- Pekka Savola "You each name yourselves king, yet the Netcore Oy kingdom bleeds." Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings _______________________________________________ Tools-discuss mailing list Tools-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Wed Mar 9 14:27:40 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA10237; Wed, 9 Mar 2005 14:27:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D96t1-0000Oi-0a; Wed, 09 Mar 2005 14:30:27 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D96pi-0002i1-Mh; Wed, 09 Mar 2005 14:27:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D96ph-0002hv-37 for tools-discuss@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 09 Mar 2005 14:27:01 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA10173 for ; Wed, 9 Mar 2005 14:26:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from av2-2-sn3.vrr.skanova.net ([81.228.9.108]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D96sK-0000Mr-Mc for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Wed, 09 Mar 2005 14:29:46 -0500 Received: by av2-2-sn3.vrr.skanova.net (Postfix, from userid 502) id 52EC437E45; Wed, 9 Mar 2005 20:26:50 +0100 (CET) Received: from smtp1-2-sn3.vrr.skanova.net (smtp1-2-sn3.vrr.skanova.net [81.228.9.178]) by av2-2-sn3.vrr.skanova.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4533D37E42; Wed, 9 Mar 2005 20:26:50 +0100 (CET) Received: from shiraz.levkowetz.com (h195n1fls311o871.telia.com [213.64.174.195]) by smtp1-2-sn3.vrr.skanova.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33AFB38019; Wed, 9 Mar 2005 20:26:50 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by shiraz.levkowetz.com with esmtp (Exim 4.44) id 1D96pV-0001FU-QH; Wed, 09 Mar 2005 20:26:50 +0100 Message-ID: <422F4DF9.1050900@levkowetz.com> Date: Wed, 09 Mar 2005 13:26:49 -0600 From: Henrik Levkowetz User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.9 (Macintosh/20041103) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Pekka Savola Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Re: document status and other WG information References: <422F419A.3050402@levkowetz.com> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 0.89.5.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 127.0.0.1 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on shiraz.levkowetz.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 93238566e09e6e262849b4f805833007 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Baker Fred , Discussion Team Tools X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9466e0365fc95844abaf7c3f15a05c7d Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit on 2005-03-09 1:06 pm Pekka Savola said the following: > On Wed, 9 Mar 2005, Henrik Levkowetz wrote: >>> Yes, I agree this would be highly useful if the page were to include >>> the personal submissions. There should be a pretty strong disclaimer >>> or a note by the chairs what's the intention (and relevance) of these >>> submissions. >> >> I have planned to give _chairs_ the ability to add notes relevant to >> any draft, which will be shown on the WG draft status pages. >> >> Are you indicating that it would be helpful to also give the _draft >> authors_ the ability to add annotations about individual drafts, so >> that these annotations also show up on the draft status pages? > > At least I think this information should be writable by the WG chairs > (and maybe WG secretary, if any) only. Ok. It certainly makes sense to me that the Secretary should be able to do this. Henrik _______________________________________________ Tools-discuss mailing list Tools-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Thu Mar 10 17:52:41 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA16555; Thu, 10 Mar 2005 17:52:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D9WZA-0004Q8-BM; Thu, 10 Mar 2005 17:55:43 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D9WVf-0004VR-Hk; Thu, 10 Mar 2005 17:52:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D9WVd-0004VM-R5 for tools-discuss@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 10 Mar 2005 17:52:02 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA16539 for ; Thu, 10 Mar 2005 17:51:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from imh.informatik.uni-bremen.de ([134.102.224.4] helo=informatik.uni-bremen.de) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D9WYV-0004PR-M7 for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Thu, 10 Mar 2005 17:55:01 -0500 Received: from [IPv6:::1] (imh [134.102.224.4]) by informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j2AMofWB014088; Thu, 10 Mar 2005 23:50:43 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <422F4DF9.1050900@levkowetz.com> References: <422F419A.3050402@levkowetz.com> <422F4DF9.1050900@levkowetz.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Carsten Bormann Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Re: document status and other WG information Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 16:50:40 -0600 To: Henrik Levkowetz X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS/Sophos at informatik.uni-bremen.de X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 08170828343bcf1325e4a0fb4584481c Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Carsten Bormann , Pekka Savola , Discussion Team Tools , Baker Fred X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 79899194edc4f33a41f49410777972f8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My proposal would be to add process for declaring individual I-Ds "interesting" to a WG. E.g.: If an individual I-D has been solicited by the WG (e.g., from a DT), or the WG has discussed an individual submission and decided to invest further work into it, the WG chair can designate it as a document "watched" by the WG. Updates of watched documents become watched documents automatically. The WG chair can "unwatch" an individual I-D when the WG loses interest. When a WG adopts an individual I-D as a WG document, the category watched/unwatched no longer applies (all WG documents are by definition interesting to the WG). Gruesse, Carsten _______________________________________________ Tools-discuss mailing list Tools-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Mon Mar 14 18:26:41 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA04844; Mon, 14 Mar 2005 18:26:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DAz19-00036R-4l; Mon, 14 Mar 2005 18:30:35 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DAysC-0000hJ-UY; Mon, 14 Mar 2005 18:21:20 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DAysB-0000hA-MY for tools-discuss@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 14 Mar 2005 18:21:19 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA03980 for ; Mon, 14 Mar 2005 18:21:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from vapor.isi.edu ([128.9.64.64]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DAyvs-0002gX-UZ for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Mon, 14 Mar 2005 18:25:10 -0500 Received: from nak.isi.edu (nak.isi.edu [128.9.168.79]) by vapor.isi.edu (8.11.6p2+0917/8.11.2) with ESMTP id j2ENK7B01613 for ; Mon, 14 Mar 2005 15:20:07 -0800 (PST) Received: by nak.isi.edu (Postfix, from userid 3494) id 3DD326AC49D; Mon, 14 Mar 2005 15:19:59 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 15:19:58 -0800 From: Aaron Falk To: tools-discuss@ietf.org Message-ID: <20050314231953.GJ661@isi.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i X-Cynicism-Level: 3 Organization: USC ISI X-ISI-4-38-10-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-From: falk@isi.edu X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 08e48e05374109708c00c6208b534009 Subject: [Tools-discuss] wishlist item: archive spam cleaner X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7a6398bf8aaeabc7a7bb696b6b0a2aad Hi- I wish there was a nice tool for cleaning spam entries from list archives. Some of the IRTF RG list archives at ietf.org have been horribly corrupted. See, e.g., http://www1.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/asrg-announce/current/ --aaron _______________________________________________ Tools-discuss mailing list Tools-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Tue Mar 15 02:41:05 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA10747; Tue, 15 Mar 2005 02:41:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DB6je-00084K-0H; Tue, 15 Mar 2005 02:45:02 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DB6dv-0005F5-1v; Tue, 15 Mar 2005 02:39:07 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DB6dr-0005F0-4n for tools-discuss@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 15 Mar 2005 02:39:03 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA10552 for ; Tue, 15 Mar 2005 02:39:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from av9-2-sn4.m-sp.skanova.net ([81.228.10.107]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DB6hc-00081R-OU for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Tue, 15 Mar 2005 02:42:58 -0500 Received: by av9-2-sn4.m-sp.skanova.net (Postfix, from userid 502) id E513637EA5; Tue, 15 Mar 2005 08:38:51 +0100 (CET) Received: from smtp2-1-sn4.m-sp.skanova.net (smtp2-1-sn4.m-sp.skanova.net [81.228.10.183]) by av9-2-sn4.m-sp.skanova.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D459237E9F; Tue, 15 Mar 2005 08:38:51 +0100 (CET) Received: from shiraz.levkowetz.com (h195n1fls311o871.telia.com [213.64.174.195]) by smtp2-1-sn4.m-sp.skanova.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C227537E4F; Tue, 15 Mar 2005 08:38:51 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by shiraz.levkowetz.com with esmtp (Exim 4.44) id 1DB6df-0004eF-6e; Tue, 15 Mar 2005 08:38:51 +0100 Message-ID: <4236910B.1020209@levkowetz.com> Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 08:38:51 +0100 From: Henrik Levkowetz User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Macintosh/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Aaron Falk Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] wishlist item: archive spam cleaner References: <20050314231953.GJ661@isi.edu> In-Reply-To: <20050314231953.GJ661@isi.edu> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.89.5.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 127.0.0.1 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on shiraz.levkowetz.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 93238566e09e6e262849b4f805833007 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9466e0365fc95844abaf7c3f15a05c7d Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Aaron, On 2005-03-15 12:19 am Aaron Falk said the following: > I wish there was a nice tool for cleaning spam entries from list > archives. Some of the IRTF RG list archives at ietf.org have been > horribly corrupted. See, e.g., > http://www1.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/asrg-announce/current/ Awful. I think this may be well handled by a small script run locally on the mail archiving machine, as a one-time measure, once the primary problem of mail being accepted directly to the archives is fixed. I suspect that the people administering the mail servers should be able to put one together without too much effort, but if that isn't the case I can do so, no big sweat. Just in case there isn't an open issue registered for the problem of spam entering the archives, I've just submitted one. Henrik _______________________________________________ Tools-discuss mailing list Tools-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Tue Mar 15 11:16:47 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA12399; Tue, 15 Mar 2005 11:05:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DBEcJ-0001No-4R; Tue, 15 Mar 2005 11:09:59 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DBEXy-0001hU-BT; Tue, 15 Mar 2005 11:05:30 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DBEXv-0001h7-TZ for tools-discuss@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 15 Mar 2005 11:05:29 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA11980 for ; Tue, 15 Mar 2005 11:05:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from vapor.isi.edu ([128.9.64.64]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DBEbh-0000Zq-QC for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Tue, 15 Mar 2005 11:09:22 -0500 Received: from nak.isi.edu (67.sub-70-219-160.myvzw.com [70.219.160.67]) by vapor.isi.edu (8.11.6p2+0917/8.11.2) with ESMTP id j2FG3jB13585; Tue, 15 Mar 2005 08:03:45 -0800 (PST) Received: by nak.isi.edu (Postfix, from userid 3494) id 93F396ACB00; Tue, 15 Mar 2005 08:03:38 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 08:03:38 -0800 From: Aaron Falk To: Henrik Levkowetz Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] wishlist item: archive spam cleaner Message-ID: <20050315160334.GC2101@isi.edu> References: <20050314231953.GJ661@isi.edu> <4236910B.1020209@levkowetz.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4236910B.1020209@levkowetz.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i X-Cynicism-Level: 3 Organization: USC ISI X-ISI-4-38-10-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-From: falk@isi.edu X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 68c8cc8a64a9d0402e43b8eee9fc4199 Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: de4f315c9369b71d7dd5909b42224370 Henrik Levkowetz wrote: > > Just in case there isn't an open issue registered for the problem of > spam entering the archives, I've just submitted one. I also put in a ticket with ietf-action. In fact, I think the vulnerability (allowing the archives to recieve email from more than just the list) was identified and fixed some months ago but I think the IRTF lists were overlooked. --aaron _______________________________________________ Tools-discuss mailing list Tools-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Tue Mar 15 12:26:55 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA23900; Tue, 15 Mar 2005 12:17:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DBFfa-0001al-4o; Tue, 15 Mar 2005 12:17:26 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DBFRh-0003kO-9x; Tue, 15 Mar 2005 12:03:05 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DBFRg-0003jp-2S for tools-discuss@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 15 Mar 2005 12:03:04 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA21917 for ; Tue, 15 Mar 2005 12:00:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from eagle.ericsson.se ([193.180.251.53]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DBFGU-0004Sw-ME for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Tue, 15 Mar 2005 11:51:31 -0500 Received: from esealmw128.eemea.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.121]) by eagle.ericsson.se (8.12.10/8.12.10/WIREfire-1.8b) with ESMTP id j2FGlTO6021317; Tue, 15 Mar 2005 17:47:29 +0100 Received: from esealmw126.eemea.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.170]) by esealmw128.eemea.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Tue, 15 Mar 2005 17:47:29 +0100 Received: from [147.214.237.81] ([147.214.237.81]) by esealmw126.eemea.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Tue, 15 Mar 2005 17:47:28 +0100 Message-ID: <42371196.2090501@levkowetz.com> Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 17:47:18 +0100 From: Henrik Levkowetz User-Agent: Debian Thunderbird 1.0 (X11/20050116) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Aaron Falk Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] wishlist item: archive spam cleaner References: <20050314231953.GJ661@isi.edu> <4236910B.1020209@levkowetz.com> <20050315160334.GC2101@isi.edu> In-Reply-To: <20050315160334.GC2101@isi.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Mar 2005 16:47:28.0768 (UTC) FILETIME=[AC904000:01C5297E] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d6b246023072368de71562c0ab503126 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 93238566e09e6e262849b4f805833007 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 03/15/2005 05:03 PM Aaron Falk said the following: > Henrik Levkowetz wrote: > >>Just in case there isn't an open issue registered for the problem of >>spam entering the archives, I've just submitted one. > > I also put in a ticket with ietf-action. Oh, good :-) > In fact, I think the > vulnerability (allowing the archives to receive email from more than > just the list) was identified and fixed some months ago but I think > the IRTF lists were overlooked. I'm not so sure - I see very recent spam which has bypassed the list in the MIP4 archive, too ... Henrik _______________________________________________ Tools-discuss mailing list Tools-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Thu Mar 17 14:40:33 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA11618; Thu, 17 Mar 2005 14:40:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DC0vW-00049F-GE; Thu, 17 Mar 2005 14:45:02 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DC0oE-0000eE-5b; Thu, 17 Mar 2005 14:37:30 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DC0oD-0000e9-KY for tools-discuss@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 17 Mar 2005 14:37:29 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA11347 for ; Thu, 17 Mar 2005 14:37:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from vapor.isi.edu ([128.9.64.64]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DC0sU-00044W-0T for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Thu, 17 Mar 2005 14:41:56 -0500 Received: from nak.isi.edu (host75.miarm.hyatthsia.com [12.149.86.75] (may be forged)) by vapor.isi.edu (8.11.6p2+0917/8.11.2) with ESMTP id j2HJaMB07869 for ; Thu, 17 Mar 2005 11:36:22 -0800 (PST) Received: by nak.isi.edu (Postfix, from userid 3494) id 129F56AE56C; Thu, 17 Mar 2005 14:36:14 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 14:36:14 -0500 From: Aaron Falk To: tools-discuss@ietf.org Message-ID: <20050317193610.GA2141@isi.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i X-Cynicism-Level: 3 Organization: USC ISI X-ISI-4-38-10-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-From: falk@isi.edu X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7bac9cb154eb5790ae3b2913587a40de Subject: [Tools-discuss] nice mail archive web interface X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 08170828343bcf1325e4a0fb4584481c Hi- I ran into this today digging up something on mutt, my MUA. It's a very nice interface for digging through email archives. In particular, check out the thread visualization. The search function is good, too. http://lurker.sourceforge.net/ --aaron _______________________________________________ Tools-discuss mailing list Tools-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Fri Mar 18 10:52:47 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA20563; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 10:52:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DCJqn-0002P3-TF; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 10:57:27 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DCJkn-0003mI-Pe; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 10:51:13 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DCJkm-0003lz-DL for tools-discuss@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 10:51:12 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA20417 for ; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 10:51:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from av3-1-sn1.fre.skanova.net ([81.228.11.109]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DCJpE-0002MD-V8 for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 10:55:49 -0500 Received: by av3-1-sn1.fre.skanova.net (Postfix, from userid 502) id 71FB237EC5; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 16:51:01 +0100 (CET) Received: from smtp3-1-sn1.fre.skanova.net (smtp3-1-sn1.fre.skanova.net [81.228.11.163]) by av3-1-sn1.fre.skanova.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 649B637E6D; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 16:51:01 +0100 (CET) Received: from shiraz.levkowetz.com (h195n1fls311o871.telia.com [213.64.174.195]) by smtp3-1-sn1.fre.skanova.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 546D537E49; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 16:51:01 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by shiraz.levkowetz.com with esmtp (Exim 4.44) id 1DCJkb-0007fv-3J; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 16:51:01 +0100 Message-ID: <423AF8E4.7000505@levkowetz.com> Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 16:51:00 +0100 From: Henrik Levkowetz User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Macintosh/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Aaron Falk Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] nice mail archive web interface References: <20050317193610.GA2141@isi.edu> In-Reply-To: <20050317193610.GA2141@isi.edu> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.89.5.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 127.0.0.1 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on shiraz.levkowetz.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 856eb5f76e7a34990d1d457d8e8e5b7f Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7655788c23eb79e336f5f8ba8bce7906 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Aaron, On 2005-03-17 8:36 pm Aaron Falk said the following: > I ran into this today digging up something on mutt, my MUA. It's a > very nice interface for digging through email archives. In > particular, check out the thread visualization. The search function > is good, too. > > http://lurker.sourceforge.net/ Yes, I've run into this before, and tried it out for a short time for archiving, but I got rather quickly tired of the much larger number of clicks needed to get to the messages I wanted to see, and the screen real-estate taken up by cute non-essentials. To me it was beguiling at first, but didn't have staying power :-) Henrik _______________________________________________ Tools-discuss mailing list Tools-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Fri Mar 18 11:37:49 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA26098; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 11:37:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DCKYP-0004eU-O1; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 11:42:29 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DCKRK-0005UL-6j; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 11:35:10 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DCKRI-0005UG-OQ for tools-discuss@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 11:35:08 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA25743 for ; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 11:35:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from e3.ny.us.ibm.com ([32.97.182.143]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DCKVl-0004Yd-BJ for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 11:39:46 -0500 Received: from d01relay02.pok.ibm.com (d01relay02.pok.ibm.com [9.56.227.234]) by e3.ny.us.ibm.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j2IGYwQs016839 for ; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 11:34:58 -0500 Received: from d01av03.pok.ibm.com (d01av03.pok.ibm.com [9.56.224.217]) by d01relay02.pok.ibm.com (8.12.10/NCO/VER6.6) with ESMTP id j2IGYwXZ095374 for ; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 11:34:58 -0500 Received: from d01av03.pok.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d01av03.pok.ibm.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j2IGYmF8008078 for ; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 11:34:48 -0500 Received: from rotala.raleigh.ibm.com (rotala.raleigh.ibm.com [9.37.211.15]) by d01av03.pok.ibm.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j2IGYlWK007698; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 11:34:47 -0500 Received: from rotala.raleigh.ibm.com (rotala.raleigh.ibm.com [127.0.0.1]) by rotala.raleigh.ibm.com (8.13.1/8.12.5) with ESMTP id j2IGVmK9013283; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 11:31:48 -0500 Message-Id: <200503181631.j2IGVmK9013283@rotala.raleigh.ibm.com> To: Aaron Falk Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] wishlist item: archive spam cleaner In-Reply-To: Message from falk@ISI.EDU of "Thu, 17 Mar 2005 14:36:14 EST." <20050317193610.GA2141@isi.edu> Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 11:31:48 -0500 From: Thomas Narten X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: bb8f917bb6b8da28fc948aeffb74aa17 Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7baded97d9887f7a0c7e8a33c2e3ea1b > I wish there was a nice tool for cleaning spam entries from list > archives. Some of the IRTF RG list archives at ietf.org have been > horribly corrupted. See, e.g., > http://www1.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/asrg-announce/current/ What I've done in the past is something like the following: Convert the raw archive to unix mbox format, if necessary. (I think you have to strip off leading ">" characters in some cases, though I didn't below.) Then, run through procmail via formail using something like: formail -s procmail tmp/procmail.dhc < /tmp/current where procmail.dhc looks something like: DEFAULT=/tmp/dhcwg-spam :: ^List-Id:.*dhcwg.ietf.org /tmp/dhcwg-incoming Doing the above on the "current" contents of the dhcwg archive, I get 78 messages dumped into spam, vs. 67 kept as legit. This (with some additional tuning) would probably be a straightforward way to clean out spam. e.g., legit "From" lines should all start with something like: >From dhcwg-bounces@ietf.org Tue Mar 1 01:56:01 2005 and so forth. Thomas _______________________________________________ Tools-discuss mailing list Tools-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Fri Mar 18 11:47:18 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA27022; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 11:47:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DCKha-00056H-DB; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 11:51:59 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DCKXg-00066o-DP; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 11:41:44 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DCKXf-00066Z-Ds for tools-discuss@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 11:41:43 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA26543 for ; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 11:41:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from vapor.isi.edu ([128.9.64.64]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DCKc8-0004rL-2o for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 11:46:21 -0500 Received: from nak.isi.edu (host254.tethered.net [206.117.27.254] (may be forged)) by vapor.isi.edu (8.11.6p2+0917/8.11.2) with ESMTP id j2IGels03816; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 08:40:47 -0800 (PST) Received: by nak.isi.edu (Postfix, from userid 3494) id 02EBD6AF07D; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 11:40:40 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 11:40:40 -0500 From: Aaron Falk To: Henrik Levkowetz Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] nice mail archive web interface Message-ID: <20050318164037.GE674@isi.edu> References: <20050317193610.GA2141@isi.edu> <423AF8E4.7000505@levkowetz.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <423AF8E4.7000505@levkowetz.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i X-Cynicism-Level: 3 Organization: USC ISI X-ISI-4-38-10-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-From: falk@isi.edu X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7d33c50f3756db14428398e2bdedd581 Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ffa9dfbbe7cc58b3fa6b8ae3e57b0aa3 Henrik Levkowetz wrote: > Hi Aaron, > > On 2005-03-17 8:36 pm Aaron Falk said the following: > > I ran into this today digging up something on mutt, my MUA. It's a > > very nice interface for digging through email archives. In > > particular, check out the thread visualization. The search function > > is good, too. > > > > http://lurker.sourceforge.net/ > > Yes, I've run into this before, and tried it out for a short time > for archiving, but I got rather quickly tired of the much larger > number of clicks needed to get to the messages I wanted to see, and > the screen real-estate taken up by cute non-essentials. To me it was > beguiling at first, but didn't have staying power :-) > Perhaps if the cute stuff could be disabled... --aaron _______________________________________________ Tools-discuss mailing list Tools-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Fri Mar 18 11:47:42 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA27077; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 11:47:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DCKhz-000578-98; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 11:52:23 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DCKdQ-0006Wa-VA; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 11:47:40 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DCKdP-0006WT-An for tools-discuss@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 11:47:39 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA27074 for ; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 11:47:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from vapor.isi.edu ([128.9.64.64]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DCKht-000571-5B for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 11:52:17 -0500 Received: from nak.isi.edu (host254.tethered.net [206.117.27.254] (may be forged)) by vapor.isi.edu (8.11.6p2+0917/8.11.2) with ESMTP id j2IGlRs05397; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 08:47:27 -0800 (PST) Received: by nak.isi.edu (Postfix, from userid 3494) id 3381E6AF098; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 11:47:21 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 11:47:20 -0500 From: Aaron Falk To: Thomas Narten Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] wishlist item: archive spam cleaner Message-ID: <20050318164719.GF674@isi.edu> References: <20050317193610.GA2141@isi.edu> <200503181631.j2IGVmK9013283@rotala.raleigh.ibm.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200503181631.j2IGVmK9013283@rotala.raleigh.ibm.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i X-Cynicism-Level: 3 Organization: USC ISI X-ISI-4-38-10-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-From: falk@isi.edu X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 1ac7cc0a4cd376402b85bc1961a86ac2 Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d6b246023072368de71562c0ab503126 Thomas Narten wrote: > > I wish there was a nice tool for cleaning spam entries from list > > archives. Some of the IRTF RG list archives at ietf.org have been > > horribly corrupted. See, e.g., > > http://www1.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/asrg-announce/current/ > > What I've done in the past is something like the following: > > Convert the raw archive to unix mbox format, if necessary. yes, this would work for raw archives. But what about the web archives? The link I sent is basically useless. --aaron _______________________________________________ Tools-discuss mailing list Tools-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Fri Mar 18 12:06:18 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA28438; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 12:06:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DCKzy-0005qH-Gs; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 12:10:59 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DCKo2-0000Yd-LT; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 11:58:38 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DCKo1-0000YV-0b for tools-discuss@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 11:58:37 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA27980 for ; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 11:58:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from e35.co.us.ibm.com ([32.97.110.133]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DCKsT-0005TV-MR for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 12:03:15 -0500 Received: from d03relay04.boulder.ibm.com (d03relay04.boulder.ibm.com [9.17.195.106]) by e35.co.us.ibm.com (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j2IGwPLg531524 for ; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 11:58:25 -0500 Received: from d03av02.boulder.ibm.com (d03av02.boulder.ibm.com [9.17.195.168]) by d03relay04.boulder.ibm.com (8.12.10/NCO/VER6.6) with ESMTP id j2IGwPOV179226 for ; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 09:58:25 -0700 Received: from d03av02.boulder.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d03av02.boulder.ibm.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j2IGwP25032603 for ; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 09:58:25 -0700 Received: from rotala.raleigh.ibm.com (rotala.raleigh.ibm.com [9.37.211.15]) by d03av02.boulder.ibm.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j2IGwPBm032580; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 09:58:25 -0700 Received: from rotala.raleigh.ibm.com (rotala.raleigh.ibm.com [127.0.0.1]) by rotala.raleigh.ibm.com (8.13.1/8.12.5) with ESMTP id j2IGtZdS013346; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 11:55:35 -0500 Message-Id: <200503181655.j2IGtZdS013346@rotala.raleigh.ibm.com> To: Aaron Falk Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] wishlist item: archive spam cleaner In-Reply-To: Message from falk@ISI.EDU of "Fri, 18 Mar 2005 11:47:20 EST." <20050318164719.GF674@isi.edu> Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 11:55:35 -0500 From: Thomas Narten X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d17f825e43c9aed4fd65b7edddddec89 Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: cf4fa59384e76e63313391b70cd0dd25 > yes, this would work for raw archives. But what about the web > archives? The link I sent is basically useless. Raw archives need to be fixed, and then an appropriate web interface run on top of the cleaned-up data. IMO, the current web interface is unusable for many reasons, with spam not even being the biggest one. E.g., try finding a thread that you know took place (say) last summer. Thomas _______________________________________________ Tools-discuss mailing list Tools-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Fri Mar 18 12:15:18 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA29326; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 12:15:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DCL8h-0006Ei-D9; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 12:19:59 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DCL3M-00054h-08; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 12:14:28 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DCL3K-00054a-HL for tools-discuss@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 12:14:26 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA29249 for ; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 12:14:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from av3-2-sn3.vrr.skanova.net ([81.228.9.110]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DCL7o-0006A6-Ff for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 12:19:04 -0500 Received: by av3-2-sn3.vrr.skanova.net (Postfix, from userid 502) id 76DD537E4C; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 18:14:16 +0100 (CET) Received: from smtp1-2-sn3.vrr.skanova.net (smtp1-2-sn3.vrr.skanova.net [81.228.9.178]) by av3-2-sn3.vrr.skanova.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6495337E42; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 18:14:16 +0100 (CET) Received: from shiraz.levkowetz.com (h195n1fls311o871.telia.com [213.64.174.195]) by smtp1-2-sn3.vrr.skanova.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4085538002; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 18:14:15 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by shiraz.levkowetz.com with esmtp (Exim 4.44) id 1DCL39-0001I0-Ma; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 18:14:15 +0100 Message-ID: <423B0C67.5090708@levkowetz.com> Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 18:14:15 +0100 From: Henrik Levkowetz User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Macintosh/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Thomas Narten Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] wishlist item: archive spam cleaner References: <200503181631.j2IGVmK9013283@rotala.raleigh.ibm.com> In-Reply-To: <200503181631.j2IGVmK9013283@rotala.raleigh.ibm.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.89.5.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 127.0.0.1 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on shiraz.levkowetz.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 50a516d93fd399dc60588708fd9a3002 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Aaron Falk , tools-discuss@ietf.org X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7aafa0432175920a4b3e118e16c5cb64 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit on 2005-03-18 5:31 pm Thomas Narten said the following: >> I wish there was a nice tool for cleaning spam entries from list >> archives. Some of the IRTF RG list archives at ietf.org have been >> horribly corrupted. See, e.g., >> http://www1.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/asrg-announce/current/ > > What I've done in the past is something like the following: > > Convert the raw archive to unix mbox format, if necessary. (I think > you have to strip off leading ">" characters in some cases, though I > didn't below.) Umm, I think it's best to leave the added ">" (in front of email body lines starting with "From ") to make sure formail doesn't mistake them for the envelope "From ". If needed they can be stripped after going through formail and procmail, though. > Then, run through procmail via formail using something like: > > formail -s procmail tmp/procmail.dhc < /tmp/current > > where procmail.dhc looks something like: > > DEFAULT=/tmp/dhcwg-spam > :: > ^List-Id:.*dhcwg.ietf.org > /tmp/dhcwg-incoming > Looks right, simple and economical to me :-) > Doing the above on the "current" contents of the dhcwg archive, I get > 78 messages dumped into spam, vs. 67 kept as legit. > > This (with some additional tuning) would probably be a straightforward > way to clean out spam. e.g., legit "From" lines should all start with > something like: > >>From dhcwg-bounces@ietf.org Tue Mar 1 01:56:01 2005 Right. Henrik > and so forth. > > Thomas _______________________________________________ Tools-discuss mailing list Tools-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Fri Mar 18 12:22:56 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA00103; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 12:22:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DCLG5-0006Ya-BH; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 12:27:37 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DCL8v-000656-IC; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 12:20:13 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DCL8t-000651-Pg for tools-discuss@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 12:20:11 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA29708 for ; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 12:20:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from av3-2-sn3.vrr.skanova.net ([81.228.9.110]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DCLDN-0006NF-SL for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 12:24:50 -0500 Received: by av3-2-sn3.vrr.skanova.net (Postfix, from userid 502) id A3F6137E55; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 18:20:02 +0100 (CET) Received: from smtp1-2-sn3.vrr.skanova.net (smtp1-2-sn3.vrr.skanova.net [81.228.9.178]) by av3-2-sn3.vrr.skanova.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 937CB37E42; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 18:20:02 +0100 (CET) Received: from shiraz.levkowetz.com (h195n1fls311o871.telia.com [213.64.174.195]) by smtp1-2-sn3.vrr.skanova.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D51F3800C; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 18:20:02 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by shiraz.levkowetz.com with esmtp (Exim 4.44) id 1DCL8k-0003Y9-B8; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 18:20:02 +0100 Message-ID: <423B0DC2.6070904@levkowetz.com> Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 18:20:02 +0100 From: Henrik Levkowetz User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Macintosh/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Aaron Falk Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] wishlist item: archive spam cleaner References: <20050317193610.GA2141@isi.edu> <200503181631.j2IGVmK9013283@rotala.raleigh.ibm.com> <20050318164719.GF674@isi.edu> In-Reply-To: <20050318164719.GF674@isi.edu> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.89.5.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 127.0.0.1 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on shiraz.levkowetz.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ffa9dfbbe7cc58b3fa6b8ae3e57b0aa3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Thomas Narten , tools-discuss@ietf.org X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: e5ba305d0e64821bf3d8bc5d3bb07228 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit on 2005-03-18 5:47 pm Aaron Falk said the following: > Thomas Narten wrote: >> > I wish there was a nice tool for cleaning spam entries from list >> > archives. Some of the IRTF RG list archives at ietf.org have been >> > horribly corrupted. See, e.g., >> > http://www1.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/asrg-announce/current/ >> >> What I've done in the past is something like the following: >> >> Convert the raw archive to unix mbox format, if necessary. > > yes, this would work for raw archives. But what about the web > archives? The link I sent is basically useless. Oh, once the incoming hole is plugged, I would expect the mail archive maintainers to be able to do that kind of laundering process on the raw archive data, and have the web-pages re-generated based on the laundered archive. I don't know for certain that MHonArch has the capability to re-generate the web-pages, but even if it hasn't got that out of the box, it should be fairly easy to tweak it to run the same program on all of the archives as it normally runs on the most recent archive to update the web-pages. Henrik _______________________________________________ Tools-discuss mailing list Tools-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Fri Mar 18 13:25:51 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA07663; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 13:25:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DCMEz-0000rh-2X; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 13:30:34 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DCMAD-0001qg-KJ; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 13:25:37 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DCMAB-0001qY-PQ for tools-discuss@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 13:25:35 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA07648 for ; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 13:25:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail-red.research.att.com ([192.20.225.110] helo=mail-white.research.att.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DCMEf-0000nf-JG for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 13:30:14 -0500 Received: from bright.research.att.com (bright.research.att.com [135.207.20.189]) by mail-green.research.att.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB0ADA7BD5; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 13:25:25 -0500 (EST) Received: (from fenner@localhost) by bright.research.att.com (8.12.11/8.12.10/Submit) id j2IIPPKP000908; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 12:25:25 -0600 Message-Id: <200503181825.j2IIPPKP000908@bright.research.att.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII To: falk@ISI.EDU Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] nice mail archive web interface Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 12:25:25 -0600 From: Bill Fenner Versions: dmail (linux) 2.6d/makemail 2.10 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7bac9cb154eb5790ae3b2913587a40de Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 08170828343bcf1325e4a0fb4584481c I have several lists archived at rtg.ietf.org using lurker: http://rtg.ietf.org/lurker/ I like the search functionality a lot. I tried to figure out how to change the look (the back end generates xml and then xslt's it to HTML) but didn't get very far. Bill _______________________________________________ Tools-discuss mailing list Tools-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Fri Mar 18 13:26:56 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA07755; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 13:26:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DCMG2-0000t8-AZ; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 13:31:38 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DCMB9-00022t-Bq; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 13:26:35 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DCMB7-00021b-Sn for tools-discuss@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 13:26:33 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA07706 for ; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 13:26:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from netcore.fi ([193.94.160.1]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DCMFc-0000s7-6P for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 13:31:12 -0500 Received: from localhost (pekkas@localhost) by netcore.fi (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id j2IIQAl25683; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 20:26:10 +0200 Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 20:26:09 +0200 (EET) From: Pekka Savola To: Henrik Levkowetz Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] wishlist item: archive spam cleaner In-Reply-To: <423B0DC2.6070904@levkowetz.com> Message-ID: References: <20050317193610.GA2141@isi.edu> <200503181631.j2IGVmK9013283@rotala.raleigh.ibm.com> <20050318164719.GF674@isi.edu> <423B0DC2.6070904@levkowetz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 97adf591118a232206bdb5a27b217034 Cc: Thomas Narten , Aaron Falk , tools-discuss@ietf.org X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8b30eb7682a596edff707698f4a80f7d On Fri, 18 Mar 2005, Henrik Levkowetz wrote: >> yes, this would work for raw archives. But what about the web >> archives? The link I sent is basically useless. > > Oh, once the incoming hole is plugged, I would expect the mail > archive maintainers to be able to do that kind of laundering process on > the raw archive data, and have the web-pages re-generated based on > the laundered archive. > > I don't know for certain that MHonArch has the capability to re-generate > the web-pages, but even if it hasn't got that out of the box, it should > be fairly easy to tweak it to run the same program on all of the archives > as it normally runs on the most recent archive to update the web-pages. Ummm.? Doesn't this have a big problem? AFAIK, if the raw archive (available from ftp.ietf.org) is cleaned up, and the web archive regenerated, I think the html mail generator changes the URLs for existing the messages? For example, the message: http://www1.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/v6tc/current/msg00161.html ..becomes a completely different message, because the numbers are assigned sequentially. As people refer to messages by the above URLs, we can't just remove them. Maybe just mark them as spam/cleaned-up, and not show them in the date/thread index. I wonder how doable this would be. -- Pekka Savola "You each name yourselves king, yet the Netcore Oy kingdom bleeds." Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings _______________________________________________ Tools-discuss mailing list Tools-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Fri Mar 18 15:25:08 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA21864; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 15:25:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DCO6P-0005iu-M5; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 15:29:50 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DCO1Q-0006PU-LY; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 15:24:40 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DCO1P-0006PP-JI for tools-discuss@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 15:24:39 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA21798 for ; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 15:24:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from av2-2-sn3.vrr.skanova.net ([81.228.9.108]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DCO5u-0005iF-Ro for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 15:29:19 -0500 Received: by av2-2-sn3.vrr.skanova.net (Postfix, from userid 502) id A93D637E63; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 21:24:28 +0100 (CET) Received: from smtp1-1-sn3.vrr.skanova.net (smtp1-1-sn3.vrr.skanova.net [81.228.9.177]) by av2-2-sn3.vrr.skanova.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9825037E4A; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 21:24:28 +0100 (CET) Received: from shiraz.levkowetz.com (h195n1fls311o871.telia.com [213.64.174.195]) by smtp1-1-sn3.vrr.skanova.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8305138003; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 21:24:28 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by shiraz.levkowetz.com with esmtp (Exim 4.44) id 1DCO1E-0002Md-D3; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 21:24:28 +0100 Message-ID: <423B38FC.9040802@levkowetz.com> Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 21:24:28 +0100 From: Henrik Levkowetz User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Macintosh/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Pekka Savola Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] wishlist item: archive spam cleaner References: <20050317193610.GA2141@isi.edu> <200503181631.j2IGVmK9013283@rotala.raleigh.ibm.com> <20050318164719.GF674@isi.edu> <423B0DC2.6070904@levkowetz.com> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 0.89.5.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 127.0.0.1 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on shiraz.levkowetz.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 39bd8f8cbb76cae18b7e23f7cf6b2b9f Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: a7d6aff76b15f3f56fcb94490e1052e4 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Pekka, On 2005-03-18 7:26 pm Pekka Savola said the following: > On Fri, 18 Mar 2005, Henrik Levkowetz wrote: [...] >> I don't know for certain that MHonArch has the capability to re-generate >> the web-pages, but even if it hasn't got that out of the box, it should >> be fairly easy to tweak it to run the same program on all of the archives >> as it normally runs on the most recent archive to update the web-pages. > > Ummm.? Doesn't this have a big problem? AFAIK, if the raw archive > (available from ftp.ietf.org) is cleaned up, and the web archive > regenerated, I think the html mail generator changes the URLs for > existing the messages? Ahh... You're quite right. We can't re-generate, we'll have to edit the existing html files. > For example, the message: > http://www1.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/v6tc/current/msg00161.html > ..becomes a completely different message, because the numbers are > assigned sequentially. > > As people refer to messages by the above URLs, we can't just remove > them. Maybe just mark them as spam/cleaned-up, and not show them in > the date/thread index. > > I wonder how doable this would be. Oh, it would be doable all right, but one would have to edit the html files instead of regenerating them. A bit more work, but not really a major undertaking. I'd estimate up to a week's worth of work for a capable contractor to understand the situation, build the tool, run it on all the archives, verify them, and wrap up. Henrik _______________________________________________ Tools-discuss mailing list Tools-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Tue Mar 22 16:09:51 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA05819; Tue, 22 Mar 2005 16:09:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DDqii-0005Zp-FV; Tue, 22 Mar 2005 16:15:24 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DDqWT-00010t-R7; Tue, 22 Mar 2005 16:02:45 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DDqWS-00010g-Ay for tools-discuss@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 22 Mar 2005 16:02:44 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA04004 for ; Tue, 22 Mar 2005 16:02:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from sj-iport-3-in.cisco.com ([171.71.176.72] helo=sj-iport-3.cisco.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DDqbm-0004ti-74 for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Tue, 22 Mar 2005 16:08:15 -0500 Received: from sj-core-1.cisco.com (171.71.177.237) by sj-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 22 Mar 2005 13:02:33 -0800 X-IronPort-AV: i="3.91,111,1110182400"; d="scan'208"; a="238994465:sNHT381624096" Received: from mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com (IDENT:mirapoint@mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com [171.71.163.14]) by sj-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j2ML2TDr003977 for ; Tue, 22 Mar 2005 13:02:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.32.244.218] (stealth-10-32-244-218.cisco.com [10.32.244.218]) by mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com (MOS 3.4.5-GR) with SMTP id BDE74755; Tue, 22 Mar 2005 13:02:31 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <8b5d2a4287a2c7891dbd674d8ca69951@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed To: Discussion Team Tools From: Baker Fred Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 13:02:30 -0800 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d6b246023072368de71562c0ab503126 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Tools-discuss] A simple tool... X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 93238566e09e6e262849b4f805833007 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What would it take for the secretariat to post the agenda in (among other things) CalSched (aka Outlook/iCal) format? many of us are using a CalSched-based calendaring tool. It would be nice if we could share/import that data... I have put together a simple prototype. If you look at ftp://ftpeng.cisco.com/fred/ietf-agenda you will find the agenda for IETF 62 extracted from agenda_62.txt using a simple awk script and recast as if it were the agenda of IETF 63. The files at that site include a shell script, an awk script, the agenda for IETF 62, and the calendars (.ics files) the meetings associated with specific areas, the "other" things like breaks, receptions, and plenaries, and a calendar incorporating them all. My thought is that whatever tool generates agenda_N.txt could run my script or something like it and produce a calendar from it, or if someone wanted such a calendar could be generated and then used to schedule the meetings. _______________________________________________ Tools-discuss mailing list Tools-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Tue Mar 22 16:37:20 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA10647; Tue, 22 Mar 2005 16:37:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DDr9K-0007Sp-4S; Tue, 22 Mar 2005 16:42:54 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DDr2r-0006h3-37; Tue, 22 Mar 2005 16:36:13 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DDr2q-0006gy-8A for tools-discuss@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 22 Mar 2005 16:36:12 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA10542 for ; Tue, 22 Mar 2005 16:36:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from av5-1-sn3.vrr.skanova.net ([81.228.9.113]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DDr8B-0007P1-GV for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Tue, 22 Mar 2005 16:41:43 -0500 Received: by av5-1-sn3.vrr.skanova.net (Postfix, from userid 502) id 7250037E65; Tue, 22 Mar 2005 22:36:02 +0100 (CET) Received: from smtp1-1-sn3.vrr.skanova.net (smtp1-1-sn3.vrr.skanova.net [81.228.9.177]) by av5-1-sn3.vrr.skanova.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60C6037E42; Tue, 22 Mar 2005 22:36:02 +0100 (CET) Received: from shiraz.levkowetz.com (h195n1fls311o871.telia.com [213.64.174.195]) by smtp1-1-sn3.vrr.skanova.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B63438007; Tue, 22 Mar 2005 22:36:02 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by shiraz.levkowetz.com with esmtp (Exim 4.44) id 1DDr2g-0001Wh-2e; Tue, 22 Mar 2005 22:36:02 +0100 Message-ID: <42408FC0.3020400@levkowetz.com> Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 22:36:00 +0100 From: Henrik Levkowetz User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Macintosh/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Baker Fred Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] A simple tool... References: <8b5d2a4287a2c7891dbd674d8ca69951@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <8b5d2a4287a2c7891dbd674d8ca69951@cisco.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.89.5.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 127.0.0.1 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on shiraz.levkowetz.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8b30eb7682a596edff707698f4a80f7d Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Tools Discuss X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 21c69d3cfc2dd19218717dbe1d974352 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit on 2005-03-22 10:02 pm Baker Fred said the following: > What would it take for the secretariat to post the agenda in (among > other things) CalSched (aka Outlook/iCal) format? many of us are using > a CalSched-based calendaring tool. It would be nice if we could > share/import that data... > > I have put together a simple prototype. If you look at > ftp://ftpeng.cisco.com/fred/ietf-agenda > > you will find the agenda for IETF 62 extracted from agenda_62.txt using > a simple awk script and recast as if it were the agenda of IETF 63. The > files at that site include a shell script, an awk script, the agenda > for IETF 62, and the calendars (.ics files) the meetings associated > with specific areas, the "other" things like breaks, receptions, and > plenaries, and a calendar incorporating them all. > > My thought is that whatever tool generates agenda_N.txt could run my > script or something like it and produce a calendar from it, or if > someone wanted such a calendar could be generated and then used to > schedule the meetings. Very nice. We could certainly start by making this available as a prototype on tools.ietf.org, for IETF-63. (How we migrate tools from there to the production environment is not clear yet, but we should be able to work that out once IASA is up and running, and we have contracts in place.) Somebody posted an .ics file for IETF-62 ahead of the meeting too, but that one lacked timezone information. I notice that you've included that, which is very nice. The same goes for the place of each meeting. One thing I would consider adding when putting this up as a prototype is an option to make individual extracts from the total calendar, by indicating which working group acronyms were of interest in a web form, and have an individually tailored .ics file delivered. Henrik _______________________________________________ Tools-discuss mailing list Tools-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Tue Mar 22 16:52:42 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA11960; Tue, 22 Mar 2005 16:52:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DDrOC-000804-7h; Tue, 22 Mar 2005 16:58:16 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DDrHP-0008Ve-06; Tue, 22 Mar 2005 16:51:15 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DDrHK-0008V7-HO for tools-discuss@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 22 Mar 2005 16:51:12 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA11770 for ; Tue, 22 Mar 2005 16:51:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from handynerds.com ([207.234.208.55]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DDrMe-0007vB-5R for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Tue, 22 Mar 2005 16:56:41 -0500 Received: from apache by HandyNerds.com with local (Exim 4.41) id 1DDrHI-0000kX-D7 for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Tue, 22 Mar 2005 16:51:08 -0500 Received: from cisco.mcdonaldbradley.com ([12.165.216.2]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user bthorson); by www.handynerds.com with HTTP; Tue, 22 Mar 2005 16:51:08 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <32558.12.165.216.2.1111528268.squirrel@12.165.216.2> Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 16:51:08 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] A simple tool... From: "Brett Thorson" To: tools-discuss@ietf.org User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.3a-0.f1.1 X-Mailer: SquirrelMail/1.4.3a-0.f1.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal References: <8b5d2a4287a2c7891dbd674d8ca69951@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <8b5d2a4287a2c7891dbd674d8ca69951@cisco.com> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: cf3becbbd6d1a45acbe2ffd4ab88bdc2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: ietf@HandyNerds.com List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: a8a20a483a84f747e56475e290ee868e Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Mr. Baker, Sorry to answer your question with a question but; What about a place that houses tools that can be used against IETF data, but doesn't get run by the IETF or make the IETF responsible for them? I suggest this for the following reason. After hours & e-mails of negotiations, we finally get the secretariat to run this script for us, it will then become part of the required operations performed by the secretariat and require that it be maintained by the secretariat. This script is used for two or three years and then maybe the format isn't as popular anymore. Now how do we terminate this tool? It took "X" amount of effort to get the secretariat to accept and run this script now it will take "X*5" amount of effort to see if anyone is using it, find out if we should keep it around, then judge to see if those people can convince the secretariat that it is a dire and needed service and should not be terminated (possibly at the expense of other utilities that would benefit more people, but aren't in the scope of these 5 people who really want this calendar making script). The TEXT file might never go out of date, and it is an easily modifiable format. However, the Outlook/iCal format, well who knows if that is going to be around and popular in 5 years. The problem comes about that if even 5 people seem to use the iCal format after 5 years, it makes it difficult to cut them off (see discussions about the MAILSERV facilities). If however, the tool is made available to the community at will, it then becomes more of an open source model, where by if there are people who are using it, and depending upon it, let them support it. If it comes down to 5 people who have the strength to vocally support it's continued use but not sit down and support it with code and modifications, then the answer is clear, defined and easy. In the end, it allows the secretariat to focus on something with a longer term goal, with a wider audience. Maybe making it a .CSV file with defined fields for example or publishing it in XML. That way anyone can write tools to modify that data into their desired format, and the IETF isn't supporting one protocol over another or one company's format over another. If you support the script, and run the code for each meeting, that would be great. If you get sick of maintaining the code, you can quit. If you want to pass the torch, you can. If you quit, and nobody says anything, you tombstone the project. For the IETF/Secretariat to take quick and decisive measures to terminate these tools might be a significantly larger undertaking simply due to the nature and consistency of the community that it supports. Mind you this is not the fault of the IETF or the secretariat, more over it is the difficulty that is inherent in the model where there is 1. scarcity of resources 2. A very heterogenous base of users 3. A base of users with a focused view of their needs and how they are most productive 4. An inability to possibly judge the cost/benefit of their request against the greater good (scarcity of global knowledge i.e. what else could the secretariat be working on). Regards, --Brett > What would it take for the secretariat to post the agenda in (among other things) CalSched (aka Outlook/iCal) format? many of us are using a CalSched-based calendaring tool. It would be nice if we could > share/import that data... > > I have put together a simple prototype. If you look at > ftp://ftpeng.cisco.com/fred/ietf-agenda > > you will find the agenda for IETF 62 extracted from agenda_62.txt using a simple awk script and recast as if it were the agenda of IETF 63. The files at that site include a shell script, an awk script, the agenda for IETF 62, and the calendars (.ics files) the meetings associated with specific areas, the "other" things like breaks, receptions, and plenaries, and a calendar incorporating them all. > > My thought is that whatever tool generates agenda_N.txt could run my script or something like it and produce a calendar from it, or if someone wanted such a calendar could be generated and then used to schedule the meetings. > > _______________________________________________ > Tools-discuss mailing list > Tools-discuss@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss > _______________________________________________ Tools-discuss mailing list Tools-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Tue Mar 22 17:05:15 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA12601; Tue, 22 Mar 2005 17:05:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DDraL-0008Mu-Eg; Tue, 22 Mar 2005 17:10:49 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DDrUD-0002mS-V4; Tue, 22 Mar 2005 17:04:29 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DDrUC-0002mN-UX for tools-discuss@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 22 Mar 2005 17:04:28 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA12549 for ; Tue, 22 Mar 2005 17:04:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from sj-iport-2-in.cisco.com ([171.71.176.71] helo=sj-iport-2.cisco.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DDrZW-0008Ll-JN for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Tue, 22 Mar 2005 17:10:00 -0500 Received: from sj-core-2.cisco.com (171.71.177.254) by sj-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 22 Mar 2005 14:04:18 -0800 Received: from mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com (IDENT:mirapoint@mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com [171.71.163.14]) by sj-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j2MM4AgE017521; Tue, 22 Mar 2005 14:04:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.32.244.218] (stealth-10-32-244-218.cisco.com [10.32.244.218]) by mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com (MOS 3.4.5-GR) with SMTP id BDE81776; Tue, 22 Mar 2005 14:04:14 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <42408FC0.3020400@levkowetz.com> References: <8b5d2a4287a2c7891dbd674d8ca69951@cisco.com> <42408FC0.3020400@levkowetz.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Baker Fred Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] A simple tool... Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 14:04:14 -0800 To: Henrik Levkowetz X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 08e48e05374109708c00c6208b534009 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Tools Discuss X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7a6398bf8aaeabc7a7bb696b6b0a2aad Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Mar 22, 2005, at 1:36 PM, Henrik Levkowetz wrote: > One thing I would consider adding when putting this up as a prototype > is an option to make individual extracts from the total calendar, by > indicating which working group acronyms were of interest in a web > form, and have an individually tailored .ics file delivered. That is easily enough done. My only real comment is that it begins to look like an applet or a perl script rather than a file to download. _______________________________________________ Tools-discuss mailing list Tools-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Tue Mar 22 17:36:07 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA15069; Tue, 22 Mar 2005 17:36:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DDs4D-0000tz-M1; Tue, 22 Mar 2005 17:41:41 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DDry4-0007Xo-Ol; Tue, 22 Mar 2005 17:35:20 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DDry3-0007Xj-G7 for tools-discuss@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 22 Mar 2005 17:35:19 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA15028 for ; Tue, 22 Mar 2005 17:35:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail-red.research.att.com ([192.20.225.110] helo=mail-white.research.att.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DDs3O-0000sm-DQ for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Tue, 22 Mar 2005 17:40:51 -0500 Received: from bright.research.att.com (bright.research.att.com [135.207.20.189]) by mail-blue.research.att.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B8F119735D; Tue, 22 Mar 2005 17:15:48 -0500 (EST) Received: (from fenner@localhost) by bright.research.att.com (8.12.11/8.12.10/Submit) id j2MMZ8kT001599; Tue, 22 Mar 2005 14:35:08 -0800 Message-Id: <200503222235.j2MMZ8kT001599@bright.research.att.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII To: fred@cisco.com Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] A simple tool... Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 14:35:08 -0800 From: Bill Fenner Versions: dmail (linux) 2.6d/makemail 2.10 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7d33c50f3756db14428398e2bdedd581 Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ffa9dfbbe7cc58b3fa6b8ae3e57b0aa3 I've been reformatting the secretariat's agenda for years now, ever since the 1-hour slots got introduced on Tuesdays and I couldn't tell whether something was two sequential one-hour slots or not. Its HTML output is at http://rtg.ietf.org/~fenner/0mtg-agenda.html (You can tell how old it is by the filename it uses) and its iCalendar output is in the rtg.ietf.org icalendar viewer: http://rtg.ietf.org/ietf62/IETF%2062%20Agenda/PloneiCalendar_view_by_day?ts=1110268800 (yes, ugly url, sorry) The .ics version would be http://rtg.ietf.org/ietf62/IETF%2062%20Agenda/download Bill _______________________________________________ Tools-discuss mailing list Tools-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Tue Mar 22 17:37:00 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA15196; Tue, 22 Mar 2005 17:37:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DDs54-00010n-IJ; Tue, 22 Mar 2005 17:42:34 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DDrz9-0007kx-1j; Tue, 22 Mar 2005 17:36:27 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DDrz7-0007jg-RV for tools-discuss@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 22 Mar 2005 17:36:25 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA15100 for ; Tue, 22 Mar 2005 17:36:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from av1-2-sn4.m-sp.skanova.net ([81.228.10.115]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DDs4S-0000u3-OU for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Tue, 22 Mar 2005 17:41:58 -0500 Received: by av1-2-sn4.m-sp.skanova.net (Postfix, from userid 502) id 651B637E54; Tue, 22 Mar 2005 23:36:15 +0100 (CET) Received: from smtp2-2-sn4.m-sp.skanova.net (smtp2-2-sn4.m-sp.skanova.net [81.228.10.182]) by av1-2-sn4.m-sp.skanova.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 543CF37E42; Tue, 22 Mar 2005 23:36:15 +0100 (CET) Received: from shiraz.levkowetz.com (h195n1fls311o871.telia.com [213.64.174.195]) by smtp2-2-sn4.m-sp.skanova.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42C7237E4E; Tue, 22 Mar 2005 23:36:15 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by shiraz.levkowetz.com with esmtp (Exim 4.44) id 1DDryw-0007RU-Q0; Tue, 22 Mar 2005 23:36:14 +0100 Message-ID: <42409DDE.4000303@levkowetz.com> Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 23:36:14 +0100 From: Henrik Levkowetz User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Macintosh/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Baker Fred Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] A simple tool... References: <8b5d2a4287a2c7891dbd674d8ca69951@cisco.com> <42408FC0.3020400@levkowetz.com> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 0.89.5.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 127.0.0.1 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on shiraz.levkowetz.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7d33c50f3756db14428398e2bdedd581 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Tools Discuss X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ffa9dfbbe7cc58b3fa6b8ae3e57b0aa3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit on 2005-03-22 11:04 pm Baker Fred said the following: > On Mar 22, 2005, at 1:36 PM, Henrik Levkowetz wrote: >> One thing I would consider adding when putting this up as a prototype >> is an option to make individual extracts from the total calendar, by >> indicating which working group acronyms were of interest in a web >> form, and have an individually tailored .ics file delivered. > > That is easily enough done. My only real comment is that it begins to > look like an applet or a perl script rather than a file to download. Yes. It's just that my experience with the .ics file for IETF-62 was that the time it took to remove those meetings I had no interest in so that I could get an overview and useful calendar was large enough that I did *not* want to re-do the import if/when the agenda would change - which it did after I'd done the import ... Henrik _______________________________________________ Tools-discuss mailing list Tools-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Tue Mar 22 19:05:19 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA23785; Tue, 22 Mar 2005 19:05:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DDtSX-00043X-Sm; Tue, 22 Mar 2005 19:10:55 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DDtMW-0005eN-Mb; Tue, 22 Mar 2005 19:04:40 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DDtMV-0005eG-6A for tools-discuss@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 22 Mar 2005 19:04:39 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA23677 for ; Tue, 22 Mar 2005 19:04:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from sj-iport-3-in.cisco.com ([171.71.176.72] helo=sj-iport-3.cisco.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DDtRq-00041z-S1 for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Tue, 22 Mar 2005 19:10:12 -0500 Received: from sj-core-2.cisco.com (171.71.177.254) by sj-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 22 Mar 2005 16:04:28 -0800 X-IronPort-AV: i="3.91,112,1110182400"; d="scan'208"; a="239090572:sNHT56609970" Received: from mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com (IDENT:mirapoint@mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com [171.71.163.14]) by sj-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j2N04MgE021013; Tue, 22 Mar 2005 16:04:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.32.244.218] (stealth-10-32-244-218.cisco.com [10.32.244.218]) by mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com (MOS 3.4.5-GR) with SMTP id BDE96525; Tue, 22 Mar 2005 16:04:25 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <200503222235.j2MMZ8kT001599@bright.research.att.com> References: <200503222235.j2MMZ8kT001599@bright.research.att.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <2eb76dde9394c1cdff7b0df65998f215@cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Baker Fred Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] A simple tool... Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 16:04:25 -0800 To: Bill Fenner X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: bb8eae9af85e4fcfe76f325e38493bf4 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8ac499381112328dd60aea5b1ff596ea Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If you would rather extract it than I, I'm all for it... _______________________________________________ Tools-discuss mailing list Tools-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Wed Mar 23 02:39:54 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA11607; Wed, 23 Mar 2005 02:39:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DE0YV-0003aQ-Fw; Wed, 23 Mar 2005 02:45:32 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DE0ST-0004KW-CG; Wed, 23 Mar 2005 02:39:17 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DE0Ru-0004Ff-L7 for tools-discuss@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 23 Mar 2005 02:38:43 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA11507 for ; Wed, 23 Mar 2005 02:38:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from av9-1-sn4.m-sp.skanova.net ([81.228.10.108]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DE0XJ-0003WA-Ty for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Wed, 23 Mar 2005 02:44:19 -0500 Received: by av9-1-sn4.m-sp.skanova.net (Postfix, from userid 502) id 1F1EF37ED7; Wed, 23 Mar 2005 08:38:31 +0100 (CET) Received: from smtp2-2-sn4.m-sp.skanova.net (smtp2-2-sn4.m-sp.skanova.net [81.228.10.182]) by av9-1-sn4.m-sp.skanova.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1078537E47; Wed, 23 Mar 2005 08:38:31 +0100 (CET) Received: from shiraz.levkowetz.com (h195n1fls311o871.telia.com [213.64.174.195]) by smtp2-2-sn4.m-sp.skanova.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3BBA37E43; Wed, 23 Mar 2005 08:38:30 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by shiraz.levkowetz.com with esmtp (Exim 4.44) id 1DE0Ri-0007q5-HM; Wed, 23 Mar 2005 08:38:30 +0100 Message-ID: <42411CF6.8000506@levkowetz.com> Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 08:38:30 +0100 From: Henrik Levkowetz User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Macintosh/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Baker Fred Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] A simple tool... References: <200503222235.j2MMZ8kT001599@bright.research.att.com> <2eb76dde9394c1cdff7b0df65998f215@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <2eb76dde9394c1cdff7b0df65998f215@cisco.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.89.5.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 127.0.0.1 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on shiraz.levkowetz.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7aefe408d50e9c7c47615841cb314bed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 68c8cc8a64a9d0402e43b8eee9fc4199 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit on 2005-03-23 1:04 am Baker Fred said the following: > If you would rather extract it than I, I'm all for it... I'm fine with that :-) Henrik _______________________________________________ Tools-discuss mailing list Tools-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Thu Mar 24 01:03:39 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA12282; Thu, 24 Mar 2005 01:03:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DELX5-0006er-TC; Thu, 24 Mar 2005 01:09:28 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DELQU-000879-21; Thu, 24 Mar 2005 01:02:38 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DELQS-00086x-Ao for tools-discuss@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 24 Mar 2005 01:02:36 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA12196 for ; Thu, 24 Mar 2005 01:02:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from cyteen.hactrn.net ([66.92.66.68]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DELW3-0006bf-Ll for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Thu, 24 Mar 2005 01:08:25 -0500 Received: from thrintun.hactrn.net (thrintun.hactrn.net [IPv6:2002:425c:4242:0:250:daff:fe82:1c39]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "thrintun.hactrn.net", Issuer "Grunchweather Associates" (verified OK)) by cyteen.hactrn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F20CA for ; Thu, 24 Mar 2005 00:20:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from thrintun.hactrn.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by thrintun.hactrn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9776B41E3 for ; Thu, 24 Mar 2005 00:20:41 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 00:20:41 -0500 From: Rob Austein To: tools-discuss@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] wishlist item: archive spam cleaner In-Reply-To: <423B0C67.5090708@levkowetz.com> References: <200503181631.j2IGVmK9013283@rotala.raleigh.ibm.com> <423B0C67.5090708@levkowetz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.5 - "Awara-Onsen") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Message-Id: <20050324052041.9776B41E3@thrintun.hactrn.net> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8abaac9e10c826e8252866cbe6766464 X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 39bd8f8cbb76cae18b7e23f7cf6b2b9f if one wants to hack the raw archives, the easiest tool to use would probably be nmh: $ inc -file rawarchive.txt +tainted $ pick --list-id mylist.ietf.org | xargs refile +cleaned "inc" breaks the archive into message files in a mailbox ("+tainted"), pick selects the ones with the desired list-id: header, refile moves the selected messages to a different mailbox ("+cleaned"). the main problem with this approach is that, decades of tradition notwithstanding, uucp format makes a really bad mail archive. no internal sanity checks, crazy matching rules that routinely require an mda to mange text just to crock around the shortcomings of the mailbox format, and very widely implemented, badly. so in a typical archive, inc (or procmail's formail command or pretty much anything else) will fail to recognize some of the messages boundaries. basicly, all known mailbox formats that depend on magic delimiters between messages are broken and have been known to be broken for decades, but people keep writing tools that use them. uucp format is a pathologically silly example. mmdf and babyl formats are somewhat better (at least their magic delimiters don't routinely appear in ordinary text), but a sane format would use separate files (mh, maildir), counted length (mm), or something that was designed to be used as an archive format (tar, zip). but i digress. _______________________________________________ Tools-discuss mailing list Tools-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Thu Mar 24 12:40:04 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA07904; Thu, 24 Mar 2005 12:40:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DEWPB-0003DJ-Tv; Thu, 24 Mar 2005 12:46:02 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DEWIk-00019r-MK; Thu, 24 Mar 2005 12:39:22 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DEWIi-00019a-R1 for tools-discuss@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 24 Mar 2005 12:39:20 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA07840 for ; Thu, 24 Mar 2005 12:39:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from sj-iport-3-in.cisco.com ([171.71.176.72] helo=sj-iport-3.cisco.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DEWOR-0003AC-9S for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Thu, 24 Mar 2005 12:45:15 -0500 Received: from sj-core-1.cisco.com (171.71.177.237) by sj-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 24 Mar 2005 09:39:11 -0800 X-IronPort-AV: i="3.91,119,1110182400"; d="scan'208"; a="240209540:sNHT28475592" Received: from mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com (IDENT:mirapoint@mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com [171.71.163.14]) by sj-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j2OHd9Dr013268 for ; Thu, 24 Mar 2005 09:39:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.32.244.218] (stealth-10-32-244-218.cisco.com [10.32.244.218]) by mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com (MOS 3.4.5-GR) with SMTP id BDG82989; Thu, 24 Mar 2005 09:39:08 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619.2) In-Reply-To: <42408B26.8060605@levkowetz.com> References: <0ce801c52d4e$db9d5f30$e8878182@DFNJGL21> <5.1.0.14.2.20050321102921.024714d0@127.0.0.1> <102f01c52e12$a293c750$e8878182@DFNJGL21> <978F96B669B40DF1F9E52BF2@scan.jck.com> <423FDEE4.8090103@levkowetz.com> <62a0000b8175493d5b566099bc08ee65@cisco.com> <42406524.5050007@levkowetz.com> <55c61a89c0d5e086cdf8bf905c166e6a@cisco.com> <42408B26.8060605@levkowetz.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Baker Fred Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 09:39:07 -0800 To: Tools Discuss X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 87a3f533bb300b99e2a18357f3c1563d Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Tools-discuss] Re: Meeting models X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 29dc808194f5fb921c09d0040806d6eb Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As requested, reposting on tools-discuss On Mar 22, 2005, at 1:16 PM, Henrik Levkowetz wrote: > Hi Fred, > > Some comments inline. As earlier, I wonder if I may forward your > note and this to the tools-discuss list, too? > > > on 2005-03-22 9:26 pm Baker Fred said the following: >> Hmm. OK, I see it now. For some reason, I expected that the pointers >> that point to that page pointed instead to the current text of the >> document. I seem to be able to get to a number of places easily, but >> not there... > > Ah. Ok. Good point. I'll see if I can tweak the page to make that more > obvious. > >> So where I see this going is that I see this as replacing a good >> portion of the document management function at the secretariat. Given >> this, there is no substantive reason for an author to send an email to >> internet-drafts@ietf.org. Rather, s/he simply uploads documents. > > Yes. But there are a lot of checks and some other functions done by > the secretariat now which this take on upload capability does not > handle (which I assume you know as well as me, or better :) > > These are captured in draft-ietf-tools-draft-submission-07.txt, and > hopefully the secretariat will be able to start implementing a tool > for uploads based on that. If that tool, as a centralised function, > is the right way in the long run can be questioned. Certainly > something > like the WG pages, with some added checks for the upload functionality, > could be an alternative route. > >> Thoughts... >> (1) as an author of random documents, I need a way to upload a -00 >> contribution to a working group as an individual submission, and a way >> to upload random documents "to the IETF" when there is no obvious >> working group. > > Yes. Mid-term, both will be handled by the document submission web > page based on the draft mentioned above - the question is whether > this should also be added to the WG pages? One of the already > requested features is for a chair to be able to do this, which is > much easier from an authentication viewpoint. > >> (2) as a working group chair, I need a way to make an individual >> submission into a working group submission. My personal preference >> would be some gadget that would allow me to rename a document, in the >> sense of >> >> mv draft-baker-v6ops-mumble-07.txt draft-ietf-v6ops-mumble-00.txt >> >> and have the latter be considered a working group document. Yes, BTW, >> I >> did drink the kool-aid concerning naming conventions. I find them very >> useful. > > Ah. This is a twist I don't think we've considered. Mmm, interesting. > Yes, that makes sense to me. > >> (3) also as a working group chair, I'd like to have a way to set a >> "desired state". If a document is in the state "AD Followup", there >> are >> several possible next states. Rather than sending an email to the >> secretariat or David asking for a change of state, I'd far prefer to >> click on a UI thing that selects the appropriate next state. > > Right. For the current prototype, the state which is maintained in > the id-tracker can't be influenced, but moving this to a production > system that would make a lot of sense. > >> (4) there are some authentication/authorization issues in all that. > > Yes ;-) > > For the prototype system, I've implemented something which is quite > simple, which is deployable now, but won't be added until it is of > some practical use (i.e., a service which requires authentication): > Knowing the emails of the WG chairs, there will be an option to ask > for a password to be sent to a chair email address. A password may > not be requested more frequent than each N hours. This will give the > chairs access to their own WG area with a minimum of fuzz and admin > overhead. > > For a production system, one might want to improve on this. > > > Henrik > > > >> On Mar 22, 2005, at 10:34 AM, Henrik Levkowetz wrote: >> >>> Hi Fred, >>> >>>> I am a new co-chair in v6ops. What isn't clear to me from this page >>>> is >>>> what I need to to do get things added or changed on it? >>>> >>>>> The capability to upload new document revs (and sub-revs, when >>>>> named >>>>> with an added dot and letter - e.g., ...-03.a.txt) is provided by >>>>> the prototype WG status and draft overview pages available under >>>>> http://tools.ietf.org/wg/ ... >>> >>> Currently, the only thing you (or an author) can do is to upload >>> new versions of existing documents; in order to do that you need to >>> go >>> to the page for the document in question (e.g., >>> http://tools.ietf.org/wg/v6ops/draft-ietf-v6ops-mech-v2/ >>> >>> - at the bottom of the page there is an upload form. >>> >>> Your question prompts me to wonder if I maybe should add a "help" >>> link >>> to the WG status page, which explains this and other things in more >>> detail - but I'd rather the usage and layout was so obvious that a >>> help page wasn't needed... >>> >>> Further on, I plan to add more capabilities - the list of features is >>> here: http://tools.ietf.org/wg/FEATURES . >>> >>> I've started working on some of these; if you have a look at >>> http://tools.ietf.org/wg/mip4/admin >>> you should get a rough idea of the first things I'd like to put >>> in place. >>> >>> ---- >>> >>> Your earlier request for having related individual drafts also >>> listed on the overview pages is currently waiting on new disks, >>> for which I placed an order just a few days ago. I'm getting >>> pretty close to having full disks, and adding pages also for >>> individual drafts would probably make me hit 100%... >>> >>> >>> Henrik >>> >> > _______________________________________________ Tools-discuss mailing list Tools-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Thu Mar 24 13:03:41 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA09990; Thu, 24 Mar 2005 13:03:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DEWm3-0003sr-Ec; Thu, 24 Mar 2005 13:09:39 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DEWeq-0003Po-93; Thu, 24 Mar 2005 13:02:12 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DEWel-0003Pa-7f for tools-discuss@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 24 Mar 2005 13:02:11 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA09894 for ; Thu, 24 Mar 2005 13:02:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from sj-iport-3-in.cisco.com ([171.71.176.72] helo=sj-iport-3.cisco.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DEWkT-0003pO-4o for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Thu, 24 Mar 2005 13:08:02 -0500 Received: from sj-core-2.cisco.com (171.71.177.254) by sj-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 24 Mar 2005 10:01:13 -0800 X-IronPort-AV: i="3.91,119,1110182400"; d="scan'208"; a="240224489:sNHT9502945746" Received: from mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com (IDENT:mirapoint@mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com [171.71.163.14]) by sj-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j2OI13gI028924; Thu, 24 Mar 2005 10:01:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.32.244.218] (stealth-10-32-244-218.cisco.com [10.32.244.218]) by mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com (MOS 3.4.5-GR) with SMTP id BDG85892; Thu, 24 Mar 2005 10:00:02 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <32558.12.165.216.2.1111528268.squirrel@12.165.216.2> References: <8b5d2a4287a2c7891dbd674d8ca69951@cisco.com> <32558.12.165.216.2.1111528268.squirrel@12.165.216.2> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <80e1852fe0b5d268bd318be69bcfe720@cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Baker Fred Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] A simple tool... Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 10:00:00 -0800 To: ietf@HandyNerds.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 97adf591118a232206bdb5a27b217034 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8b30eb7682a596edff707698f4a80f7d Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Mar 22, 2005, at 1:51 PM, Brett Thorson wrote: > Sorry to answer your question with a question but; What about a place > that houses tools that can be used against IETF data, but doesn't get > run by the IETF or make the IETF responsible for them? I have no problem with that. There is some requirement that we have some understandings among us of how that might work. For example, right now my prototype is an awk script that uses command line parameters. In all probability, for a general tool, you would want me (or someone) to externalize a web page (that the secretariat can point to) that used a java applet to download the agenda from the right place, accept some set of text strings (like "v6ops", "BOF", "Plenary", etc) as selectors, and create a calsched file using your compute cycles and leaving the resulting file on your machine. That's all well and good, unless someone has a particular love of perl or any of a list of other options. In the particular case, the changeability of the agenda format also poses a problem. In my tool, I make a number of assumptions, like that the names of days will be capitalized throughout (but I have seen agendas on which Friday was written "Friday" instead of "FRIDAY"), or that the location of a general meeting follows a " - " string (as in "Reception - Grand Ballroom") on certain lines and is the text preceding the area ID (as in "Salon E TSV v6ops ...") on others. OK, what if "Reception - Grand Ballroom" gets written "Reception- Grand Ballroom"? My tool will miss the location and include the information with the name of the event. And how do I parse a hyphenated name, should that come up? There are a number of possible solutions to that. The simplest is to ask the Secretariat to own it and handle it; I could imagine them building yet-another-output from whatever tool they use, or manually managing an Outlook/iCal calendar and exporting the result. _______________________________________________ Tools-discuss mailing list Tools-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Thu Mar 24 13:46:55 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA14624; Thu, 24 Mar 2005 13:46:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DEXRs-0005Qi-9d; Thu, 24 Mar 2005 13:52:53 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DEXK7-0001Ha-5p; Thu, 24 Mar 2005 13:44:51 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DEXK6-0001HQ-J6 for tools-discuss@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 24 Mar 2005 13:44:50 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA14385; Thu, 24 Mar 2005 13:44:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from klutz.cs.utk.edu ([160.36.56.50]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DEXPo-0005Lr-PI; Thu, 24 Mar 2005 13:50:46 -0500 Received: from localhost (klutz [127.0.0.1]) by klutz.cs.utk.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE65540174; Thu, 24 Mar 2005 13:44:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from klutz.cs.utk.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (klutz [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 17856-10; Thu, 24 Mar 2005 13:44:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from astro.cs.utk.edu (astro.cs.utk.edu [160.36.58.43]) by klutz.cs.utk.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id A91EF40097; Thu, 24 Mar 2005 13:44:41 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 13:44:41 -0500 From: Keith Moore To: ietf-ipr@ietf.org Message-Id: <20050324134441.3c1ca2d6.moore@cs.utk.edu> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 1.0.3 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386--netbsdelf) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at cs.utk.edu by ClamAV and McAfee X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: de4f315c9369b71d7dd5909b42224370 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: moore@cs.utk.edu, tools-discuss@ietf.org Subject: [Tools-discuss] http://www.ietf.org/ietf/IPR/MICROSOFT-499.txt X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 798b2e660f1819ae38035ac1d8d5e3ab Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The IPR disclosure in http://www.ietf.org/ietf/IPR/MICROSOFT-499.txt appears to pertain to draft-ietf-zeroconf-ipv4-linklocal-17 , a product of the (former?) IETF zeroconf working group and a candidate for proposed standard status. I'm sending this because U.S. Patent No. 6,101,499 , referred to in the disclosure, obviously relates to the above mentioned draft but does not show up under IPR related to the activity of the zeroconf working group or of that draft. It was not obvious as to how to correct this using the web-based IPR submission form. There may also be a need for IETF document tracking tools to keep track of associated IPR so that IPR disclosures can continue to be associated with documents across changes in document filenames, or when document content is split across multiple documents. Keith _______________________________________________ Tools-discuss mailing list Tools-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Thu Mar 24 16:51:08 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA09540; Thu, 24 Mar 2005 16:51:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DEaKA-00056a-Tf; Thu, 24 Mar 2005 16:57:07 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DEaDa-0002hM-D2; Thu, 24 Mar 2005 16:50:18 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DEZjj-0005vU-S2 for tools-discuss@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 24 Mar 2005 16:19:27 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA07118; Thu, 24 Mar 2005 16:19:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from [132.151.6.18] (helo=ticket.ietf.org) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DEZpU-00049C-GV; Thu, 24 Mar 2005 16:25:24 -0500 Received: from apache by ticket.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.33) id 1DEa3L-0003xQ-4A; Thu, 24 Mar 2005 16:39:43 -0500 From: " via RT" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Precedence: bulk X-RT-Loop-Prevention: Inquiry RT-Ticket: Inquiry #45800 Managed-by: RT 3.2.1 (http://www.bestpractical.com/rt/) RT-Originator: bfuller@foretec.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" X-RT-Original-Encoding: utf-8 Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 16:39:43 -0500 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 25620135586de10c627e3628c432b04a X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 16:50:17 -0500 Cc: moore@cs.utk.edu, ietf-ipr@ietf.org, tools-discuss@ietf.org Subject: [Tools-discuss] [Inquiry #45800] http://www.ietf.org/ietf/IPR/MICROSOFT-499.txt X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Reply-To: ietf-ipr@ietf.org List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: cd26b070c2577ac175cd3a6d878c6248 Dear Keith: The IPR disclosure that you are referring to, "Microsoft's Patent Statment pertaining to draft-ietf-dhc-ipv4-autoconfig and draft-cheshire-ipv4-linklocal," ID #164, was submitted by Microsoft Corporation on August 3, 2000. Your inquiry raises three issues that are actually broader than this particular IPR disclosure. I will try to address each one independently. Issue #1: The document draft-cheshire-ipv4-linklocal-00.txt, "Dynamic Configuration of IPv4 link-local addresses," was an independent submission that expired. The document draft-ietf-zeroconf-ipv4-linklocal-17.txt,"Dynamic Configuration of IPv4 Link-Local Addresses," is a working group submission that has just been published as an RFC. >From the titles of the two documents, it would appear that they are related. However, the Secretariat does not make these decisions. When an I-D is published as an RFC, or when one RFC "obsoletes" another RFC, then the pairs of documents are automatically marked as related in our systems. However, if one I-D replaces another I-D (e.g., when an individual submission is adopted by a working group, and its filename is changed from "draft-author" to "draft-ietf-wg"), then the only way that the Secretariat knows that the documents are related is if someone tells us. In the case of these two documents, we were not given that information, and the documents are not marked as related in our systems. If they were marked as related in our system, then the IPR disclosure would be returned when a search is performed for IPR related to either one. Issue #2: The Secretariat does not update an IPR disclosure unless the submitter of the original IPR disclosure requests that we do so. For example, we do not make judgements about the documents to which Microsoft's patent No. 6,101,499 applies. If we know that two documents are related, then our system will automatically link IPR disclosures submitted for both documents (see Issue #1 above). Issue #3: If you believe that Microsoft has IPR in draft-cheshire-ipv4-linklocal-00.txt due to patent No. 6,101,499, then you may take action to link the original IPR disclosure to that document in our system. All you need do is submit a "third-party" IPR disclosure. Go to the "IETF IPR Disclosure Page," https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/ipr_disclosure.cgi, click on the link that says: "Notify the IETF of IPR other than your own," and complete the template. Please let us know if you have any additional questions or require assistance in filing a "third-party" IPR disclosure. Regards, Barbara ---------------------------------------------- > [moore@cs.utk.edu - Thu Mar 24 14:05:06 2005]: > > The IPR disclosure in http://www.ietf.org/ietf/IPR/MICROSOFT-499.txt > appears to pertain to draft-ietf-zeroconf-ipv4-linklocal-17 , > a product of the (former?) IETF zeroconf working group and a candidate > for proposed standard status. > > I'm sending this because U.S. Patent No. 6,101,499 , referred to in > the disclosure, obviously relates to the above mentioned draft but > does not show up under IPR related to the activity of the zeroconf > working group or of that draft. It was not obvious as to how to > correct this using the web-based IPR submission form. > > There may also be a need for IETF document tracking tools to keep > track of associated IPR so that IPR disclosures can continue to be > associated with documents across changes in document filenames, > or when document content is split across multiple documents. > > Keith > > _______________________________________________ Tools-discuss mailing list Tools-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Thu Mar 24 16:53:34 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA09755; Thu, 24 Mar 2005 16:53:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DEaMX-0005BQ-SQ; Thu, 24 Mar 2005 16:59:34 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DEaEe-0002sQ-Sj; Thu, 24 Mar 2005 16:51:24 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DEaEd-0002sL-DT for tools-discuss@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 24 Mar 2005 16:51:23 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA09562 for ; Thu, 24 Mar 2005 16:51:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from av5-1-sn1.fre.skanova.net ([81.228.11.111]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DEaKM-00056i-Uv for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Thu, 24 Mar 2005 16:57:20 -0500 Received: by av5-1-sn1.fre.skanova.net (Postfix, from userid 502) id B3C2137E4F; Thu, 24 Mar 2005 22:51:11 +0100 (CET) Received: from smtp3-2-sn1.fre.skanova.net (smtp3-2-sn1.fre.skanova.net [81.228.11.164]) by av5-1-sn1.fre.skanova.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A577237E46; Thu, 24 Mar 2005 22:51:11 +0100 (CET) Received: from shiraz.levkowetz.com (h195n1fls311o871.telia.com [213.64.174.195]) by smtp3-2-sn1.fre.skanova.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97B4A37E4F; Thu, 24 Mar 2005 22:51:11 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by shiraz.levkowetz.com with esmtp (Exim 4.44) id 1DEaEQ-0004YT-Kq; Thu, 24 Mar 2005 22:51:10 +0100 Message-ID: <4243364E.50605@levkowetz.com> Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 22:51:10 +0100 From: Henrik Levkowetz User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Macintosh/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Baker Fred Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] A simple tool... References: <8b5d2a4287a2c7891dbd674d8ca69951@cisco.com> <32558.12.165.216.2.1111528268.squirrel@12.165.216.2> <80e1852fe0b5d268bd318be69bcfe720@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <80e1852fe0b5d268bd318be69bcfe720@cisco.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.89.5.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 127.0.0.1 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on shiraz.levkowetz.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d6b246023072368de71562c0ab503126 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 93238566e09e6e262849b4f805833007 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit on 2005-03-24 7:00 pm Baker Fred said the following: [...] > There are a number of possible solutions to that. The simplest is to > ask the Secretariat to own it and handle it; I could imagine them > building yet-another-output from whatever tool they use, or manually > managing an Outlook/iCal calendar and exporting the result. There's also the additional option of moving in the direction in which we (the tools team) has desired to move for some little time now, which is to define XML schema for all information published by the secretariat, and get the information published in XML format along with any other textual or html or whatever format. That would make the basic information the responsibility of the secretariat, while providing a solid and consistent base on which to build other tools. Henrik _______________________________________________ Tools-discuss mailing list Tools-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Thu Mar 24 23:49:22 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA19674; Thu, 24 Mar 2005 23:49:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DEgqz-0000g0-M8; Thu, 24 Mar 2005 23:55:25 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DEgjd-0000hk-Gv; Thu, 24 Mar 2005 23:47:49 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DEbHv-00056e-TI for tools-discuss@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 24 Mar 2005 17:58:52 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA16144; Thu, 24 Mar 2005 17:58:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from [132.151.6.18] (helo=ticket.ietf.org) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DEbNh-0007Dd-FT; Thu, 24 Mar 2005 18:04:49 -0500 Received: from apache by ticket.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.33) id 1DEbbY-0004Cn-Fd; Thu, 24 Mar 2005 18:19:08 -0500 From: " via RT" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Precedence: bulk X-RT-Loop-Prevention: Inquiry RT-Ticket: Inquiry #45800 Managed-by: RT 3.2.1 (http://www.bestpractical.com/rt/) RT-Originator: bfuller@foretec.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" X-RT-Original-Encoding: utf-8 Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 18:19:08 -0500 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 25620135586de10c627e3628c432b04a X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 23:47:37 -0500 Cc: moore@cs.utk.edu, ietf-ipr@ietf.org, tools-discuss@ietf.org Subject: [Tools-discuss] [Inquiry #45800] http://www.ietf.org/ietf/IPR/MICROSOFT-499.txt X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Reply-To: ietf-ipr@ietf.org List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: cd26b070c2577ac175cd3a6d878c6248 Dear Keith: The IPR disclosure that you are referring to, "Microsoft's Patent Statment pertaining to draft-ietf-dhc-ipv4-autoconfig and draft-cheshire-ipv4-linklocal," ID #164, was submitted by Microsoft Corporation on August 3, 2000. Your inquiry raises three issues that are actually broader than this particular IPR disclosure. I will try to address each one independently. Issue #1: The document draft-cheshire-ipv4-linklocal-00.txt, "Dynamic Configuration of IPv4 link-local addresses," was an independent submission that expired. The document draft-ietf-zeroconf-ipv4-linklocal-17.txt,"Dynamic Configuration of IPv4 Link-Local Addresses," is a working group submission that has just been published as an RFC. >From the titles of the two documents, it would appear that they are related. However, the Secretariat does not make these decisions. When an I-D is published as an RFC, or when one RFC "obsoletes" another RFC, then the pairs of documents are automatically marked as related in our systems. However, if one I-D replaces another I-D (e.g., when an individual submission is adopted by a working group, and its filename is changed from "draft-author" to "draft-ietf-wg"), then the only way that the Secretariat knows that the documents are related is if someone tells us. In the case of these two documents, we were not given that information, and the documents are not marked as related in our systems. If they were marked as related in our system, then the IPR disclosure would be returned when a search is performed for IPR related to either one. Issue #2: The Secretariat does not update an IPR disclosure unless the submitter of the original IPR disclosure requests that we do so. For example, we do not make judgements about the documents to which Microsoft's patent No. 6,101,499 applies. If we know that two documents are related, then our system will automatically link IPR disclosures submitted for both documents (see Issue #1 above). Issue #3: If you believe that Microsoft has IPR in draft-cheshire-ipv4-linklocal-00.txt due to patent No. 6,101,499, then you may take action to link the original IPR disclosure to that document in our system. All you need do is submit a "third-party" IPR disclosure. Go to the "IETF IPR Disclosure Page," https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/ipr_disclosure.cgi, click on the link that says: "Notify the IETF of IPR other than your own," and complete the template. Please let us know if you have any additional questions or require assistance in filing a "third-party" IPR disclosure. Regards, Barbara ---------------------------------------------- > [moore@cs.utk.edu - Thu Mar 24 14:05:06 2005]: > > The IPR disclosure in http://www.ietf.org/ietf/IPR/MICROSOFT-499.txt > appears to pertain to draft-ietf-zeroconf-ipv4-linklocal-17 , > a product of the (former?) IETF zeroconf working group and a candidate > for proposed standard status. > > I'm sending this because U.S. Patent No. 6,101,499 , referred to in > the disclosure, obviously relates to the above mentioned draft but > does not show up under IPR related to the activity of the zeroconf > working group or of that draft. It was not obvious as to how to > correct this using the web-based IPR submission form. > > There may also be a need for IETF document tracking tools to keep > track of associated IPR so that IPR disclosures can continue to be > associated with documents across changes in document filenames, > or when document content is split across multiple documents. > > Keith > > _______________________________________________ Tools-discuss mailing list Tools-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Thu Mar 31 02:43:16 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA12922; Thu, 31 Mar 2005 02:43:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DGuRo-00042e-2U; Thu, 31 Mar 2005 02:50:36 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DGuJb-0002aM-6z; Thu, 31 Mar 2005 02:42:07 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DGuJX-0002Zt-2k for tools-discuss@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 31 Mar 2005 02:42:03 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA12845 for ; Thu, 31 Mar 2005 02:42:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from [82.206.247.212] (helo=SMART.net) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DGuQZ-00041L-0r for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Thu, 31 Mar 2005 02:49:20 -0500 Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 08:41:44 +0000 To: "Tools-discuss" From: "Henrik" Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="--------yziahxlwmeefxwzkcecq" X-Spam-Score: 2.8 (++) X-Scan-Signature: d6b246023072368de71562c0ab503126 Subject: [Tools-discuss] Is delivered mail X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 2.3 (++) X-Scan-Signature: e5ba305d0e64821bf3d8bc5d3bb07228 ----------yziahxlwmeefxwzkcecq Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks for use of our software.
----------yziahxlwmeefxwzkcecq Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="siupd02.cpl" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="siupd02.cpl" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 ----------yziahxlwmeefxwzkcecq Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit _______________________________________________ Tools-discuss mailing list Tools-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss ----------yziahxlwmeefxwzkcecq--