From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Fri Feb 02 14:27:19 2007 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HD440-0004QN-D9; Fri, 02 Feb 2007 14:27:12 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HD43y-0004Q8-LD for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Fri, 02 Feb 2007 14:27:10 -0500 Received: from main.gmane.org ([80.91.229.2] helo=ciao.gmane.org) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HD43w-0006wr-AT for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Fri, 02 Feb 2007 14:27:10 -0500 Received: from list by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1HD43X-00009y-Sl for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Fri, 02 Feb 2007 20:26:44 +0100 Received: from 212.82.251.96 ([212.82.251.96]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Fri, 02 Feb 2007 20:26:43 +0100 Received: from nobody by 212.82.251.96 with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Fri, 02 Feb 2007 20:26:43 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: tools-discuss@ietf.org From: Frank Ellermann Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2007 20:24:23 +0100 Organization: Lines: 20 Message-ID: <45C38FE7.1B03@xyzzy.claranet.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 212.82.251.96 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (OS/2; U) X-Spam-Score: 1.6 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 7d33c50f3756db14428398e2bdedd581 Subject: [Tools-discuss] Dependency tool X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Hi, when I use the draft dependency tool at http://rtg.ietf.org/~fenner/ietf/deps/index.cgi I'm often interested to see the RFCs and I-Ds with a reference *TO* the specified document, and not the references *FROM* this document. For that I use this form with say ?dep=2142 instead of ?doc=2142. But then the list of links gives me the same link to RFC 2142 in its right = target column again and again, but no links for the sources in its left column. Could this form be split into a "from" style of results (as is for ?doc=), and a "to" style of results (as is for ?dep=, but with links shown in the left = source column) ? Or maybe it's simpler to offer links in both columns. Frank _______________________________________________ Tools-discuss mailing list Tools-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Mon Feb 12 17:54:28 2007 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HGk3i-0000xy-IT; Mon, 12 Feb 2007 17:54:06 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HGk3h-0000xk-2n for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Mon, 12 Feb 2007 17:54:05 -0500 Received: from vapor.isi.edu ([128.9.64.64]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HGk3f-0000Ux-AG for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Mon, 12 Feb 2007 17:54:05 -0500 Received: from [128.9.168.63] (bet.isi.edu [128.9.168.63]) (authenticated bits=0) by vapor.isi.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l1CMroo1005971 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Mon, 12 Feb 2007 14:53:50 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <45D0F02D.6050309@isi.edu> Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 14:54:37 -0800 From: Joe Touch User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0b2 (Windows/20070116) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tools-discuss@ietf.org, rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org References: <442C83AF.3020107@isi.edu> In-Reply-To: <442C83AF.3020107@isi.edu> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95b X-ISI-4-43-8-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-From: touch@isi.edu X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 4adaf050708fb13be3316a9eee889caa Cc: Subject: [Tools-discuss] updated Word template and tools X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0354663513==" Errors-To: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --===============0354663513== Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enig9F75F0BD0EA23D957F9CA59C" This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enig9F75F0BD0EA23D957F9CA59C Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all, A new version of my Word template is now available; it includes: - moved boilerplate to regular text to make it easier for authors to track the evolution of BCP 78 - added Intended status: header item - added acknowledgement of use of this template updated ID: http://www.isi.edu/touch/pubs/draft-touch-msword-template-v2.0-05.txt updated template: http://www.isi.edu/touch/tools/2-Word-v2.0.template.dot (this is always the most up-to-date one, if you just want to link it in) perl post-processor: http://www.isi.edu/touch/tools/2-Word-post-v2.0.pl (same thing - always updated) Feedback would be appreciated. This version appears to be final, and will likely be submitted for publication as an RFC. Comments welcome. Joe --------------enig9F75F0BD0EA23D957F9CA59C Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFF0PAtE5f5cImnZrsRAvBhAJ4yL/aRSY+t5qXK1852AcXTHshvwQCdG3wo wBhby4VcUwLjNNMMy/kqLYM= =/Rr2 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enig9F75F0BD0EA23D957F9CA59C-- --===============0354663513== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Tools-discuss mailing list Tools-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss --===============0354663513==-- From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Tue Feb 13 07:45:23 2007 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HGx27-0007H5-2N; Tue, 13 Feb 2007 07:45:19 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HGx25-0007Gx-Pf for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Tue, 13 Feb 2007 07:45:17 -0500 Received: from mtagate3.uk.ibm.com ([195.212.29.136]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HGx23-0008H5-B4 for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Tue, 13 Feb 2007 07:45:17 -0500 Received: from d06nrmr1407.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (d06nrmr1407.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com [9.149.38.185]) by mtagate3.uk.ibm.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l1DCjE3a043280 for ; Tue, 13 Feb 2007 12:45:14 GMT Received: from d06av01.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (d06av01.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com [9.149.37.212]) by d06nrmr1407.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/NCO v8.2) with ESMTP id l1DCjEUB950350 for ; Tue, 13 Feb 2007 12:45:14 GMT Received: from d06av01.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d06av01.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.13.3) with ESMTP id l1DCjEUp019821 for ; Tue, 13 Feb 2007 12:45:14 GMT Received: from sihl.zurich.ibm.com (sihl.zurich.ibm.com [9.4.16.232]) by d06av01.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l1DCjE9E019796; Tue, 13 Feb 2007 12:45:14 GMT Received: from [9.4.210.81] ([9.4.210.81]) by sihl.zurich.ibm.com (AIX4.3/8.9.3p2/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA344212; Tue, 13 Feb 2007 13:45:13 +0100 Message-ID: <45D1B2D9.30506@zurich.ibm.com> Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 13:45:13 +0100 From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: IBM User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (Windows/20061207) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Joe Touch Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] updated Word template and tools References: <442C83AF.3020107@isi.edu> <45D0F02D.6050309@isi.edu> In-Reply-To: <45D0F02D.6050309@isi.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 21c69d3cfc2dd19218717dbe1d974352 Cc: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org, tools-discuss@ietf.org X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Joe, Thanks for this. I'm not sure anything like this is ever truly 'final' though. It seems like the sort of updatable materal that IONs are aimed at. Brian On 2007-02-12 23:54, Joe Touch wrote: > Hi, all, > > A new version of my Word template is now available; it includes: > > - moved boilerplate to regular text to make it easier > for authors to track the evolution of BCP 78 > - added Intended status: header item > - added acknowledgement of use of this template > > updated ID: > http://www.isi.edu/touch/pubs/draft-touch-msword-template-v2.0-05.txt > > updated template: > http://www.isi.edu/touch/tools/2-Word-v2.0.template.dot > (this is always the most up-to-date one, if you just want to link it in) > > perl post-processor: > http://www.isi.edu/touch/tools/2-Word-post-v2.0.pl > (same thing - always updated) > > Feedback would be appreciated. This version appears to be final, and > will likely be submitted for publication as an RFC. Comments welcome. > > Joe > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Tools-discuss mailing list > Tools-discuss@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss _______________________________________________ Tools-discuss mailing list Tools-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Tue Feb 13 10:27:26 2007 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HGzYr-0004Mo-Jz; Tue, 13 Feb 2007 10:27:17 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HGzYq-0004L1-Fd for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Tue, 13 Feb 2007 10:27:16 -0500 Received: from vapor.isi.edu ([128.9.64.64]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HGzYp-0000q3-1t for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Tue, 13 Feb 2007 10:27:16 -0500 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (pool-71-106-87-237.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net [71.106.87.237]) by vapor.isi.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l1DFQwCY025549; Tue, 13 Feb 2007 07:26:59 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <45D1D8BE.4050608@isi.edu> Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 07:26:54 -0800 From: Joe Touch User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0b2 (Windows/20070116) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brian E Carpenter Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] updated Word template and tools References: <442C83AF.3020107@isi.edu> <45D0F02D.6050309@isi.edu> <45D1B2D9.30506@zurich.ibm.com> In-Reply-To: <45D1B2D9.30506@zurich.ibm.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.1.2.0 X-ISI-4-43-8-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-From: touch@isi.edu X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 10d3e4e3c32e363f129e380e644649be Cc: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org, tools-discuss@ietf.org X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0878891886==" Errors-To: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --===============0878891886== Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enig2A46CC5A3A2F041A09D80560" This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enig2A46CC5A3A2F041A09D80560 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Although the template can continue to be updated to track boilerplate, the description of what the template is and how it was designed should be as stable as many other RFCs. I.e., to the extent that the BCP78 docs are RFCs, this should as well. If we did have a series solely for RFC administration purposes, then both should be moved there. In summary, I intend to submit this for publication as an Informational RFC. That is the meaning behind "final". Joe Brian E Carpenter wrote: > Joe, >=20 > Thanks for this. >=20 > I'm not sure anything like this is ever truly 'final' though. > It seems like the sort of updatable materal that IONs are aimed > at. >=20 > Brian >=20 > On 2007-02-12 23:54, Joe Touch wrote: >> Hi, all, >> >> A new version of my Word template is now available; it includes: >> >> - moved boilerplate to regular text to make it easier >> for authors to track the evolution of BCP 78 >> - added Intended status: header item >> - added acknowledgement of use of this template >> >> updated ID: >> http://www.isi.edu/touch/pubs/draft-touch-msword-template-v2.0-05.txt >> >> updated template: >> http://www.isi.edu/touch/tools/2-Word-v2.0.template.dot >> (this is always the most up-to-date one, if you just want to link it i= n) >> >> perl post-processor: >> http://www.isi.edu/touch/tools/2-Word-post-v2.0.pl >> (same thing - always updated) >> >> Feedback would be appreciated. This version appears to be final, and >> will likely be submitted for publication as an RFC. Comments welcome. >> >> Joe >> >> >> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------= -- >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Tools-discuss mailing list >> Tools-discuss@ietf.org >> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss --=20 ---------------------------------------- Joe Touch Sr. Network Engineer, USAF TSAT Space Segment --------------enig2A46CC5A3A2F041A09D80560 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFF0di/E5f5cImnZrsRAjESAKD6P1YtNAD+tWUt7fGCfjsVD311kQCeOcFG lyfLv9uAw/Ef6HtHk3OETRg= =YyST -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enig2A46CC5A3A2F041A09D80560-- --===============0878891886== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Tools-discuss mailing list Tools-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss --===============0878891886==-- From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Tue Feb 13 10:59:27 2007 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HH03z-00061f-7B; Tue, 13 Feb 2007 10:59:27 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HH03x-0005vk-So for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Tue, 13 Feb 2007 10:59:25 -0500 Received: from mtagate8.uk.ibm.com ([195.212.29.141]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HH03w-0000cH-BR for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Tue, 13 Feb 2007 10:59:25 -0500 Received: from d06nrmr1407.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (d06nrmr1407.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com [9.149.38.185]) by mtagate8.uk.ibm.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l1DFxNAt219866 for ; Tue, 13 Feb 2007 15:59:23 GMT Received: from d06av03.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (d06av03.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com [9.149.37.213]) by d06nrmr1407.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/NCO v8.2) with ESMTP id l1DFxNTm1101992 for ; Tue, 13 Feb 2007 15:59:23 GMT Received: from d06av03.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d06av03.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.13.3) with ESMTP id l1DFxN5F022576 for ; Tue, 13 Feb 2007 15:59:23 GMT Received: from sihl.zurich.ibm.com (sihl.zurich.ibm.com [9.4.16.232]) by d06av03.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l1DFxNsm022569; Tue, 13 Feb 2007 15:59:23 GMT Received: from [9.4.210.81] ([9.4.210.81]) by sihl.zurich.ibm.com (AIX4.3/8.9.3p2/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA323834; Tue, 13 Feb 2007 16:59:22 +0100 Message-ID: <45D1E05A.3020305@zurich.ibm.com> Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 16:59:22 +0100 From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: IBM User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (Windows/20061207) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Joe Touch Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] updated Word template and tools References: <442C83AF.3020107@isi.edu> <45D0F02D.6050309@isi.edu> <45D1B2D9.30506@zurich.ibm.com> <45D1D8BE.4050608@isi.edu> In-Reply-To: <45D1D8BE.4050608@isi.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: cd26b070c2577ac175cd3a6d878c6248 Cc: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org, tools-discuss@ietf.org X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Joe, I don't see the analogy with any BCPs - they are rules, whereas xml2rfc, your template, and the various nroff templates still around are just tools - very useful tools - but are they archival material? I would ask the same question of RFC2629 if it came up today; in fact it's out of date, which sort of proves my point. I'm sure there are other RFCs that are also in this class. That's why we invented IONs, in fact. Brian On 2007-02-13 16:26, Joe Touch wrote: > Although the template can continue to be updated to track boilerplate, > the description of what the template is and how it was designed should > be as stable as many other RFCs. > > I.e., to the extent that the BCP78 docs are RFCs, this should as well. > If we did have a series solely for RFC administration purposes, then > both should be moved there. > > In summary, I intend to submit this for publication as an Informational > RFC. That is the meaning behind "final". > > Joe > > Brian E Carpenter wrote: >> Joe, >> >> Thanks for this. >> >> I'm not sure anything like this is ever truly 'final' though. >> It seems like the sort of updatable materal that IONs are aimed >> at. >> >> Brian >> >> On 2007-02-12 23:54, Joe Touch wrote: >>> Hi, all, >>> >>> A new version of my Word template is now available; it includes: >>> >>> - moved boilerplate to regular text to make it easier >>> for authors to track the evolution of BCP 78 >>> - added Intended status: header item >>> - added acknowledgement of use of this template >>> >>> updated ID: >>> http://www.isi.edu/touch/pubs/draft-touch-msword-template-v2.0-05.txt >>> >>> updated template: >>> http://www.isi.edu/touch/tools/2-Word-v2.0.template.dot >>> (this is always the most up-to-date one, if you just want to link it in) >>> >>> perl post-processor: >>> http://www.isi.edu/touch/tools/2-Word-post-v2.0.pl >>> (same thing - always updated) >>> >>> Feedback would be appreciated. This version appears to be final, and >>> will likely be submitted for publication as an RFC. Comments welcome. >>> >>> Joe >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Tools-discuss mailing list >>> Tools-discuss@ietf.org >>> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Tools-discuss mailing list > Tools-discuss@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss _______________________________________________ Tools-discuss mailing list Tools-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Tue Feb 13 12:08:51 2007 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HH195-00068R-Lp; Tue, 13 Feb 2007 12:08:47 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HH194-00067n-HG for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Tue, 13 Feb 2007 12:08:46 -0500 Received: from vapor.isi.edu ([128.9.64.64]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HH193-0000Fd-2c for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Tue, 13 Feb 2007 12:08:46 -0500 Received: from [128.9.168.63] (bet.isi.edu [128.9.168.63]) (authenticated bits=0) by vapor.isi.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l1DH8Sd3022104 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Tue, 13 Feb 2007 09:08:34 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <45D1F065.70501@isi.edu> Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 09:07:49 -0800 From: Joe Touch User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0b2 (Windows/20070116) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brian E Carpenter Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] updated Word template and tools References: <442C83AF.3020107@isi.edu> <45D0F02D.6050309@isi.edu> <45D1B2D9.30506@zurich.ibm.com> <45D1D8BE.4050608@isi.edu> <45D1E05A.3020305@zurich.ibm.com> In-Reply-To: <45D1E05A.3020305@zurich.ibm.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95b X-ISI-4-43-8-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-From: touch@isi.edu X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 6ffdee8af20de249c24731d8414917d3 Cc: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org, tools-discuss@ietf.org X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1831219695==" Errors-To: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --===============1831219695== Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enig57B12435F83B7D8B14CD4FB7" This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enig57B12435F83B7D8B14CD4FB7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Brian E Carpenter wrote: > Joe, >=20 > I don't see the analogy with any BCPs - they are rules, whereas > xml2rfc, your template, and the various nroff templates still around > are just tools - very useful tools - but are they archival material? The tools no. The RFCs describing the tools - presumably in a non-versionspecific way - yes. > I would ask the same question of RFC2629 if it came up today; in fact > it's out of date, which sort of proves my point. I'm sure there are oth= er > RFCs that are also in this class. That's why we invented IONs, in fact.= Who's "we", and where are IONs? Joe >=20 > Brian >=20 > On 2007-02-13 16:26, Joe Touch wrote: >> Although the template can continue to be updated to track boilerplate,= >> the description of what the template is and how it was designed should= >> be as stable as many other RFCs. >> >> I.e., to the extent that the BCP78 docs are RFCs, this should as well.= >> If we did have a series solely for RFC administration purposes, then >> both should be moved there. >> >> In summary, I intend to submit this for publication as an Informationa= l >> RFC. That is the meaning behind "final". >> >> Joe >> >> Brian E Carpenter wrote: >>> Joe, >>> >>> Thanks for this. >>> >>> I'm not sure anything like this is ever truly 'final' though. >>> It seems like the sort of updatable materal that IONs are aimed >>> at. >>> >>> Brian >>> >>> On 2007-02-12 23:54, Joe Touch wrote: >>>> Hi, all, >>>> >>>> A new version of my Word template is now available; it includes: >>>> >>>> - moved boilerplate to regular text to make it easier >>>> for authors to track the evolution of BCP 78 >>>> - added Intended status: header item >>>> - added acknowledgement of use of this template >>>> >>>> updated ID: >>>> http://www.isi.edu/touch/pubs/draft-touch-msword-template-v2.0-05.tx= t >>>> >>>> updated template: >>>> http://www.isi.edu/touch/tools/2-Word-v2.0.template.dot >>>> (this is always the most up-to-date one, if you just want to link it= >>>> in) >>>> >>>> perl post-processor: >>>> http://www.isi.edu/touch/tools/2-Word-post-v2.0.pl >>>> (same thing - always updated) >>>> >>>> Feedback would be appreciated. This version appears to be final, and= >>>> will likely be submitted for publication as an RFC. Comments welcome= =2E >>>> >>>> Joe >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------= ---- >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Tools-discuss mailing list >>>> Tools-discuss@ietf.org >>>> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss >> >> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------= -- >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Tools-discuss mailing list >> Tools-discuss@ietf.org >> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss --------------enig57B12435F83B7D8B14CD4FB7 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFF0fBoE5f5cImnZrsRAss7AKD4I/sJ60TyWhqikt9RponlCYu+lgCcCh6q yD6BjDyhrpr64BjXr0+ffrs= =HhB3 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enig57B12435F83B7D8B14CD4FB7-- --===============1831219695== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Tools-discuss mailing list Tools-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss --===============1831219695==-- From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 14 03:17:27 2007 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HHFKI-0002Cc-SP; Wed, 14 Feb 2007 03:17:18 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HHFKH-0002CT-Ci for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Wed, 14 Feb 2007 03:17:17 -0500 Received: from mtagate3.de.ibm.com ([195.212.29.152]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HHFKE-0004G6-Rk for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Wed, 14 Feb 2007 03:17:17 -0500 Received: from d12nrmr1607.megacenter.de.ibm.com (d12nrmr1607.megacenter.de.ibm.com [9.149.167.49]) by mtagate3.de.ibm.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l1E8HD6V048890 for ; Wed, 14 Feb 2007 08:17:13 GMT Received: from d12av04.megacenter.de.ibm.com (d12av04.megacenter.de.ibm.com [9.149.165.229]) by d12nrmr1607.megacenter.de.ibm.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/NCO v8.2) with ESMTP id l1E8HDtQ2236454 for ; Wed, 14 Feb 2007 09:17:13 +0100 Received: from d12av04.megacenter.de.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d12av04.megacenter.de.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.13.3) with ESMTP id l1E8HDg7008932 for ; Wed, 14 Feb 2007 09:17:13 +0100 Received: from sihl.zurich.ibm.com (sihl.zurich.ibm.com [9.4.16.232]) by d12av04.megacenter.de.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l1E8HDZW008925; Wed, 14 Feb 2007 09:17:13 +0100 Received: from [9.4.211.7] ([9.4.211.7]) by sihl.zurich.ibm.com (AIX4.3/8.9.3p2/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA366150; Wed, 14 Feb 2007 09:17:12 +0100 Message-ID: <45D2C588.8050104@zurich.ibm.com> Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 09:17:12 +0100 From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: IBM User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (Windows/20061207) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Joe Touch Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] updated Word template and tools References: <442C83AF.3020107@isi.edu> <45D0F02D.6050309@isi.edu> <45D1B2D9.30506@zurich.ibm.com> <45D1D8BE.4050608@isi.edu> <45D1E05A.3020305@zurich.ibm.com> <45D1F065.70501@isi.edu> In-Reply-To: <45D1F065.70501@isi.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 5011df3e2a27abcc044eaa15befcaa87 Cc: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org, tools-discuss@ietf.org X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org On 2007-02-13 18:07, Joe Touch wrote: > > Brian E Carpenter wrote: >> Joe, >> >> I don't see the analogy with any BCPs - they are rules, whereas >> xml2rfc, your template, and the various nroff templates still around >> are just tools - very useful tools - but are they archival material? > > The tools no. The RFCs describing the tools - presumably in a > non-versionspecific way - yes. > >> I would ask the same question of RFC2629 if it came up today; in fact >> it's out of date, which sort of proves my point. I'm sure there are other >> RFCs that are also in this class. That's why we invented IONs, in fact. > > Who's "we", and where are IONs? "We" is presumably the IETF community, since RFC 4693 was approved after a last call debate. The main culprits were Harald Alvestrand, Cullen Jennings and myself. http://www.ietf.org/IESG/content/ions.html Bfrian > > Joe > >> Brian >> >> On 2007-02-13 16:26, Joe Touch wrote: >>> Although the template can continue to be updated to track boilerplate, >>> the description of what the template is and how it was designed should >>> be as stable as many other RFCs. >>> >>> I.e., to the extent that the BCP78 docs are RFCs, this should as well. >>> If we did have a series solely for RFC administration purposes, then >>> both should be moved there. >>> >>> In summary, I intend to submit this for publication as an Informational >>> RFC. That is the meaning behind "final". >>> >>> Joe >>> >>> Brian E Carpenter wrote: >>>> Joe, >>>> >>>> Thanks for this. >>>> >>>> I'm not sure anything like this is ever truly 'final' though. >>>> It seems like the sort of updatable materal that IONs are aimed >>>> at. >>>> >>>> Brian >>>> >>>> On 2007-02-12 23:54, Joe Touch wrote: >>>>> Hi, all, >>>>> >>>>> A new version of my Word template is now available; it includes: >>>>> >>>>> - moved boilerplate to regular text to make it easier >>>>> for authors to track the evolution of BCP 78 >>>>> - added Intended status: header item >>>>> - added acknowledgement of use of this template >>>>> >>>>> updated ID: >>>>> http://www.isi.edu/touch/pubs/draft-touch-msword-template-v2.0-05.txt >>>>> >>>>> updated template: >>>>> http://www.isi.edu/touch/tools/2-Word-v2.0.template.dot >>>>> (this is always the most up-to-date one, if you just want to link it >>>>> in) >>>>> >>>>> perl post-processor: >>>>> http://www.isi.edu/touch/tools/2-Word-post-v2.0.pl >>>>> (same thing - always updated) >>>>> >>>>> Feedback would be appreciated. This version appears to be final, and >>>>> will likely be submitted for publication as an RFC. Comments welcome. >>>>> >>>>> Joe >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Tools-discuss mailing list >>>>> Tools-discuss@ietf.org >>>>> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Tools-discuss mailing list >>> Tools-discuss@ietf.org >>> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss > _______________________________________________ Tools-discuss mailing list Tools-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 14 09:36:23 2007 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HHLF0-0005OV-El; Wed, 14 Feb 2007 09:36:14 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HHLEz-0005OQ-Gn for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Wed, 14 Feb 2007 09:36:13 -0500 Received: from vapor.isi.edu ([128.9.64.64]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HHLEx-0004I0-17 for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Wed, 14 Feb 2007 09:36:13 -0500 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (pool-71-106-87-237.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net [71.106.87.237]) by vapor.isi.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l1EEZkOx019241; Wed, 14 Feb 2007 06:35:48 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <45D31E3B.8000804@isi.edu> Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 06:35:39 -0800 From: Joe Touch User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0b2 (Windows/20070116) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brian E Carpenter Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] updated Word template and tools References: <442C83AF.3020107@isi.edu> <45D0F02D.6050309@isi.edu> <45D1B2D9.30506@zurich.ibm.com> <45D1D8BE.4050608@isi.edu> <45D1E05A.3020305@zurich.ibm.com> <45D1F065.70501@isi.edu> <45D2C588.8050104@zurich.ibm.com> In-Reply-To: <45D2C588.8050104@zurich.ibm.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.1.2.0 X-ISI-4-43-8-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-From: touch@isi.edu X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d2b46e3b2dfbff2088e0b72a54104985 Cc: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org, tools-discuss@ietf.org X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1188064329==" Errors-To: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --===============1188064329== Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enigEAFFB94D3BA43DA7BABF69EF" This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enigEAFFB94D3BA43DA7BABF69EF Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Brian E Carpenter wrote: > On 2007-02-13 18:07, Joe Touch wrote: >> >> Brian E Carpenter wrote: >>> Joe, >>> >>> I don't see the analogy with any BCPs - they are rules, whereas >>> xml2rfc, your template, and the various nroff templates still around >>> are just tools - very useful tools - but are they archival material? >> >> The tools no. The RFCs describing the tools - presumably in a >> non-versionspecific way - yes. >> >>> I would ask the same question of RFC2629 if it came up today; in fact= >>> it's out of date, which sort of proves my point. I'm sure there are >>> other >>> RFCs that are also in this class. That's why we invented IONs, in fac= t. >> >> Who's "we", and where are IONs? >=20 > "We" is presumably the IETF community, since RFC 4693 was approved > after a last call debate. The main culprits were Harald Alvestrand, > Cullen Jennings and myself. >=20 > http://www.ietf.org/IESG/content/ions.html That was agreed to as an experiment. There doesn't appear to be a process in place for these as yet. I'll consider participating in that track after BCP 78 is in that series; that will convince me it exists and that it's ready for use. Joe >>> Brian >>> >>> On 2007-02-13 16:26, Joe Touch wrote: >>>> Although the template can continue to be updated to track boilerplat= e, >>>> the description of what the template is and how it was designed shou= ld >>>> be as stable as many other RFCs. >>>> >>>> I.e., to the extent that the BCP78 docs are RFCs, this should as wel= l. >>>> If we did have a series solely for RFC administration purposes, then= >>>> both should be moved there. >>>> >>>> In summary, I intend to submit this for publication as an Informatio= nal >>>> RFC. That is the meaning behind "final". >>>> >>>> Joe >>>> >>>> Brian E Carpenter wrote: >>>>> Joe, >>>>> >>>>> Thanks for this. >>>>> >>>>> I'm not sure anything like this is ever truly 'final' though. >>>>> It seems like the sort of updatable materal that IONs are aimed >>>>> at. >>>>> >>>>> Brian >>>>> >>>>> On 2007-02-12 23:54, Joe Touch wrote: >>>>>> Hi, all, >>>>>> >>>>>> A new version of my Word template is now available; it includes: >>>>>> >>>>>> - moved boilerplate to regular text to make it easier >>>>>> for authors to track the evolution of BCP 78 >>>>>> - added Intended status: header item >>>>>> - added acknowledgement of use of this template >>>>>> >>>>>> updated ID: >>>>>> http://www.isi.edu/touch/pubs/draft-touch-msword-template-v2.0-05.= txt >>>>>> >>>>>> updated template: >>>>>> http://www.isi.edu/touch/tools/2-Word-v2.0.template.dot >>>>>> (this is always the most up-to-date one, if you just want to link = it >>>>>> in) >>>>>> >>>>>> perl post-processor: >>>>>> http://www.isi.edu/touch/tools/2-Word-post-v2.0.pl >>>>>> (same thing - always updated) >>>>>> >>>>>> Feedback would be appreciated. This version appears to be final, a= nd >>>>>> will likely be submitted for publication as an RFC. Comments welco= me. >>>>>> >>>>>> Joe >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------= ------ >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Tools-discuss mailing list >>>>>> Tools-discuss@ietf.org >>>>>> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss >>>> >>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------= ---- >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Tools-discuss mailing list >>>> Tools-discuss@ietf.org >>>> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss >> --=20 ---------------------------------------- Joe Touch Sr. Network Engineer, USAF TSAT Space Segment --------------enigEAFFB94D3BA43DA7BABF69EF Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFF0x5AE5f5cImnZrsRAlJtAJ9PpCI7bH1SHS+tMxSWcExmXJfZRwCgnAEJ +iiYZC4BJPfGLMdU6bOaXQQ= =6dVB -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enigEAFFB94D3BA43DA7BABF69EF-- --===============1188064329== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Tools-discuss mailing list Tools-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss --===============1188064329==-- From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 14 10:40:29 2007 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HHMEr-0003G0-HF; Wed, 14 Feb 2007 10:40:09 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HHMEq-0003Fv-5Z for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Wed, 14 Feb 2007 10:40:08 -0500 Received: from mtagate1.uk.ibm.com ([195.212.29.134]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HHMEn-0004Jl-Km for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Wed, 14 Feb 2007 10:40:08 -0500 Received: from d06nrmr1407.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (d06nrmr1407.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com [9.149.38.185]) by mtagate1.uk.ibm.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l1EFe52Q118178 for ; Wed, 14 Feb 2007 15:40:05 GMT Received: from d06av02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (d06av02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com [9.149.37.228]) by d06nrmr1407.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/NCO v8.2) with ESMTP id l1EFe4aA1159224 for ; Wed, 14 Feb 2007 15:40:04 GMT Received: from d06av02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d06av02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.13.3) with ESMTP id l1EFe4bO028320 for ; Wed, 14 Feb 2007 15:40:04 GMT Received: from sihl.zurich.ibm.com (sihl.zurich.ibm.com [9.4.16.232]) by d06av02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l1EFe4VJ028316; Wed, 14 Feb 2007 15:40:04 GMT Received: from [9.4.211.7] ([9.4.211.7]) by sihl.zurich.ibm.com (AIX4.3/8.9.3p2/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA105466; Wed, 14 Feb 2007 16:40:03 +0100 Message-ID: <45D32D51.4020809@zurich.ibm.com> Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 16:40:01 +0100 From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: IBM User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (Windows/20061207) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Joe Touch Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] updated Word template and tools References: <442C83AF.3020107@isi.edu> <45D0F02D.6050309@isi.edu> <45D1B2D9.30506@zurich.ibm.com> <45D1D8BE.4050608@isi.edu> <45D1E05A.3020305@zurich.ibm.com> <45D1F065.70501@isi.edu> <45D2C588.8050104@zurich.ibm.com> <45D31E3B.8000804@isi.edu> In-Reply-To: <45D31E3B.8000804@isi.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 1676547e4f33b5e63227e9c02bd359e3 Cc: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org, tools-discuss@ietf.org X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org On 2007-02-14 15:35, Joe Touch wrote: > > Brian E Carpenter wrote: >> On 2007-02-13 18:07, Joe Touch wrote: >>> Brian E Carpenter wrote: >>>> Joe, >>>> >>>> I don't see the analogy with any BCPs - they are rules, whereas >>>> xml2rfc, your template, and the various nroff templates still around >>>> are just tools - very useful tools - but are they archival material? >>> The tools no. The RFCs describing the tools - presumably in a >>> non-versionspecific way - yes. >>> >>>> I would ask the same question of RFC2629 if it came up today; in fact >>>> it's out of date, which sort of proves my point. I'm sure there are >>>> other >>>> RFCs that are also in this class. That's why we invented IONs, in fact. >>> Who's "we", and where are IONs? >> "We" is presumably the IETF community, since RFC 4693 was approved >> after a last call debate. The main culprits were Harald Alvestrand, >> Cullen Jennings and myself. >> >> http://www.ietf.org/IESG/content/ions.html > > That was agreed to as an experiment. There doesn't appear to be a > process in place for these as yet. Well, we have three approved ones so far, and two more just exited public comment. > > I'll consider participating in that track after BCP 78 is in that > series; that will convince me it exists and that it's ready for use. Joe, by definition, a BCP will *never* be an ION. IONs are not for rules; they are only for operational procedures. Brian > Joe > >>>> Brian >>>> >>>> On 2007-02-13 16:26, Joe Touch wrote: >>>>> Although the template can continue to be updated to track boilerplate, >>>>> the description of what the template is and how it was designed should >>>>> be as stable as many other RFCs. >>>>> >>>>> I.e., to the extent that the BCP78 docs are RFCs, this should as well. >>>>> If we did have a series solely for RFC administration purposes, then >>>>> both should be moved there. >>>>> >>>>> In summary, I intend to submit this for publication as an Informational >>>>> RFC. That is the meaning behind "final". >>>>> >>>>> Joe >>>>> >>>>> Brian E Carpenter wrote: >>>>>> Joe, >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks for this. >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm not sure anything like this is ever truly 'final' though. >>>>>> It seems like the sort of updatable materal that IONs are aimed >>>>>> at. >>>>>> >>>>>> Brian >>>>>> >>>>>> On 2007-02-12 23:54, Joe Touch wrote: >>>>>>> Hi, all, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> A new version of my Word template is now available; it includes: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> - moved boilerplate to regular text to make it easier >>>>>>> for authors to track the evolution of BCP 78 >>>>>>> - added Intended status: header item >>>>>>> - added acknowledgement of use of this template >>>>>>> >>>>>>> updated ID: >>>>>>> http://www.isi.edu/touch/pubs/draft-touch-msword-template-v2.0-05.txt >>>>>>> >>>>>>> updated template: >>>>>>> http://www.isi.edu/touch/tools/2-Word-v2.0.template.dot >>>>>>> (this is always the most up-to-date one, if you just want to link it >>>>>>> in) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> perl post-processor: >>>>>>> http://www.isi.edu/touch/tools/2-Word-post-v2.0.pl >>>>>>> (same thing - always updated) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Feedback would be appreciated. This version appears to be final, and >>>>>>> will likely be submitted for publication as an RFC. Comments welcome. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Joe >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Tools-discuss mailing list >>>>>>> Tools-discuss@ietf.org >>>>>>> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Tools-discuss mailing list >>>>> Tools-discuss@ietf.org >>>>> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Tools-discuss mailing list > Tools-discuss@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss _______________________________________________ Tools-discuss mailing list Tools-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 14 11:11:02 2007 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HHMiV-00040E-N5; Wed, 14 Feb 2007 11:10:47 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HHMi9-0002yn-UP for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Wed, 14 Feb 2007 11:10:26 -0500 Received: from vapor.isi.edu ([128.9.64.64]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HHMdT-0007fS-T8 for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Wed, 14 Feb 2007 11:05:37 -0500 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (pool-71-106-87-237.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net [71.106.87.237]) by vapor.isi.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l1EG52Wt014368; Wed, 14 Feb 2007 08:05:03 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <45D3332B.4070809@isi.edu> Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 08:04:59 -0800 From: Joe Touch User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0b2 (Windows/20070116) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brian E Carpenter Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] updated Word template and tools References: <442C83AF.3020107@isi.edu> <45D0F02D.6050309@isi.edu> <45D1B2D9.30506@zurich.ibm.com> <45D1D8BE.4050608@isi.edu> <45D1E05A.3020305@zurich.ibm.com> <45D1F065.70501@isi.edu> <45D2C588.8050104@zurich.ibm.com> <45D31E3B.8000804@isi.edu> <45D32D51.4020809@zurich.ibm.com> In-Reply-To: <45D32D51.4020809@zurich.ibm.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.1.2.0 X-ISI-4-43-8-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-From: touch@isi.edu X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: f4c2cf0bccc868e4cc88dace71fb3f44 Cc: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org, tools-discuss@ietf.org X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1933006008==" Errors-To: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --===============1933006008== Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enigADB97B35F423C502CF0BDD89" This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enigADB97B35F423C502CF0BDD89 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Brian E Carpenter wrote: =2E.. >>> http://www.ietf.org/IESG/content/ions.html >> >> That was agreed to as an experiment. There doesn't appear to be a >> process in place for these as yet. >=20 > Well, we have three approved ones so far, and two more just exited > public comment. The RFC-Editor page has no reference to them. The IETF pages have no clear indication of them. Your roadmap doc from Aug 06 has no reference to them. RFC4228 has no indication of how to submit them. They're buried under the IESG directory now. And this is not an IESG process doc. While this is an interesting experiment, and might be useful for minutes and the like, I don't agree that it is ready for other documents at this point. >> I'll consider participating in that track after BCP 78 is in that >> series; that will convince me it exists and that it's ready for use. >=20 > Joe, by definition, a BCP will *never* be an ION. IONs are not for > rules; they are only for operational procedures. See Section 3 of the RFC; it specifically calls for moving BCP 78 into an ION. I appreciate that this may result in its losing the "BCP" title, but I thought the idea above was otherwise clear. Joe --=20 ---------------------------------------- Joe Touch Sr. Network Engineer, USAF TSAT Space Segment --------------enigADB97B35F423C502CF0BDD89 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFF0zMsE5f5cImnZrsRAiXCAKDKIpgix+bcMnLmNTi31rVYMdNPPwCfY/E3 4gsU2HpfmrmeEXPrPRM+DHs= =IWG0 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enigADB97B35F423C502CF0BDD89-- --===============1933006008== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Tools-discuss mailing list Tools-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss --===============1933006008==-- From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Thu Feb 15 04:55:29 2007 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HHdKC-0000iy-JN; Thu, 15 Feb 2007 04:54:48 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HHdKC-0000il-7P for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Thu, 15 Feb 2007 04:54:48 -0500 Received: from mtagate8.uk.ibm.com ([195.212.29.141]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HHdKA-00076O-N3 for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Thu, 15 Feb 2007 04:54:48 -0500 Received: from d06nrmr1407.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (d06nrmr1407.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com [9.149.38.185]) by mtagate8.uk.ibm.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l1F9sfCW078588 for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2007 09:54:41 GMT Received: from d06av03.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (d06av03.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com [9.149.37.213]) by d06nrmr1407.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/NCO v8.2) with ESMTP id l1F9sfNA1245240 for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2007 09:54:41 GMT Received: from d06av03.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d06av03.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.13.3) with ESMTP id l1F9sfnk014593 for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2007 09:54:41 GMT Received: from sihl.zurich.ibm.com (sihl.zurich.ibm.com [9.4.16.232]) by d06av03.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l1F9sf07014583; Thu, 15 Feb 2007 09:54:41 GMT Received: from [9.4.210.81] ([9.4.210.81]) by sihl.zurich.ibm.com (AIX4.3/8.9.3p2/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA197554; Thu, 15 Feb 2007 10:54:39 +0100 Message-ID: <45D42DDE.3090008@zurich.ibm.com> Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 10:54:38 +0100 From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: IBM User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (Windows/20061207) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Joe Touch Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] updated Word template and tools References: <442C83AF.3020107@isi.edu> <45D0F02D.6050309@isi.edu> <45D1B2D9.30506@zurich.ibm.com> <45D1D8BE.4050608@isi.edu> <45D1E05A.3020305@zurich.ibm.com> <45D1F065.70501@isi.edu> <45D2C588.8050104@zurich.ibm.com> <45D31E3B.8000804@isi.edu> <45D32D51.4020809@zurich.ibm.com> <45D3332B.4070809@isi.edu> In-Reply-To: <45D3332B.4070809@isi.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 31247fb3be228bb596db9127becad0bc Cc: rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org, tools-discuss@ietf.org X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org On 2007-02-14 17:04, Joe Touch wrote: > Brian E Carpenter wrote: > ... >>>> http://www.ietf.org/IESG/content/ions.html >>> That was agreed to as an experiment. There doesn't appear to be a >>> process in place for these as yet. >> Well, we have three approved ones so far, and two more just exited >> public comment. > > The RFC-Editor page has no reference to them. Of course not; they are IETF internal operations notes. > The IETF pages have no > clear indication of them. Correct. As long as they are formally an experiment, I don't think it's appropriate to have them on the front page. > Your roadmap doc from Aug 06 has no reference > to them. Correct; but that is now a draft ION... > RFC4228 has no indication of how to submit them. No, because it describes our requirements for archival publication for the world at large, not for IETF internals. > They're buried > under the IESG directory now. And this is not an IESG process doc. No, it's an IETF operational procedure (which can of course be of value to independent submission authors, too). > > While this is an interesting experiment, and might be useful for minutes > and the like, I don't agree that it is ready for other documents at this > point. It is not intended for minutes and the like. It's intended for exactly what it's called: IETF Operational Notes. I don't get what's unclear about that. > >>> I'll consider participating in that track after BCP 78 is in that >>> series; that will convince me it exists and that it's ready for use. >> Joe, by definition, a BCP will *never* be an ION. IONs are not for >> rules; they are only for operational procedures. > > See Section 3 of the RFC; it specifically calls for moving BCP 78 into > an ION. More precisely, 'the existence of the ION series may cause the following documents to be split into a "policy and principles" BCP and a "procedures and boilerplate" document published as ION' There's no plan to move formal rules of process anywhere other than BCP. BCPs explicitly require IETF consensus (and in the case of process rules, ISOC Board acceptance to complete the legal liability chain). IONs are approved on the fly. Enough said,I think, for this distro. Brian > I appreciate that this may result in its losing the "BCP" title, > but I thought the idea above was otherwise clear. > > Joe > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Tools-discuss mailing list > Tools-discuss@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss _______________________________________________ Tools-discuss mailing list Tools-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Thu Feb 15 08:48:17 2007 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HHgy4-0008DT-9i; Thu, 15 Feb 2007 08:48:12 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HHOw0-0005BT-Pp for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Wed, 14 Feb 2007 13:32:52 -0500 Received: from rufus.isode.com ([62.3.217.251]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HHOvl-0003XH-6h for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Wed, 14 Feb 2007 13:32:52 -0500 Received: from [192.168.1.104] ((unknown) [24.176.246.106]) by rufus.isode.com (submission channel) via TCP with ESMTPA id for ; Wed, 14 Feb 2007 18:32:35 +0000 X-SMTP-Protocol-Errors: NORDNS Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed To: tools-discuss@ietf.org From: Kurt Zeilenga Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 10:32:29 -0800 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 08e48e05374109708c00c6208b534009 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 08:48:10 -0500 Subject: [Tools-discuss] Idnits-2.02.1 feedback X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Version 2.02.1 falsely detects OIDs in dotted-decimel form, e.g. 1.3.6.1.4.1.1466.115.121.1.12, as an IPv4 address literal, and then issues a warning that its not in the example range. I suggest the regex be adjusted to be exclude sequences where a component is greater than 255 and the number of components is not 4. Kurt _______________________________________________ Tools-discuss mailing list Tools-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Thu Feb 15 09:22:18 2007 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HHhV0-0000ki-04; Thu, 15 Feb 2007 09:22:14 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HHhUz-0000kd-OJ for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Thu, 15 Feb 2007 09:22:13 -0500 Received: from av9-2-sn3.vrr.skanova.net ([81.228.9.186]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HHhUy-0004zW-F1 for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Thu, 15 Feb 2007 09:22:13 -0500 Received: by av9-2-sn3.vrr.skanova.net (Postfix, from userid 502) id B974B383B1; Thu, 15 Feb 2007 15:22:11 +0100 (CET) Received: from smtp3-2-sn3.vrr.skanova.net (smtp3-2-sn3.vrr.skanova.net [81.228.9.102]) by av9-2-sn3.vrr.skanova.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D7BE37E5B; Thu, 15 Feb 2007 15:22:11 +0100 (CET) Received: from shiraz.levkowetz.com (81-232-110-214-no16.tbcn.telia.com [81.232.110.214]) by smtp3-2-sn3.vrr.skanova.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81D7837E46; Thu, 15 Feb 2007 15:22:11 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by shiraz.levkowetz.com with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1HHhUw-0007yj-FZ; Thu, 15 Feb 2007 15:22:10 +0100 Message-ID: <45D46C8C.1070905@levkowetz.com> Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 15:22:04 +0100 From: Henrik Levkowetz User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (Macintosh/20061207) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Kurt Zeilenga Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Idnits-2.02.1 feedback References: In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.1.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 127.0.0.1 X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: Kurt.Zeilenga@Isode.com, tools-discuss@ietf.org, henrik-sent@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on shiraz.levkowetz.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 1ac7cc0a4cd376402b85bc1961a86ac2 Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Hi Kurt, on 2007-02-14 19:32 Kurt Zeilenga said the following: > Version 2.02.1 falsely detects OIDs in dotted-decimel form, > e.g. 1.3.6.1.4.1.1466.115.121.1.12, as an IPv4 address literal, > and then issues a warning that its not in the example range. > I suggest the regex be adjusted to be exclude sequences where > a component is greater than 255 and the number of components > is not 4. Good point. I'll have this fixed in 2.02.2 Henrik _______________________________________________ Tools-discuss mailing list Tools-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss