From sbrim@cisco.com Tue Dec 1 06:06:22 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB9AC3A68BE for ; Tue, 1 Dec 2009 06:06:22 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AGoZDbdRtVWA for ; Tue, 1 Dec 2009 06:06:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from sj-iport-2.cisco.com (sj-iport-2.cisco.com [171.71.176.71]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDFD13A6783 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 2009 06:06:21 -0800 (PST) Authentication-Results: sj-iport-2.cisco.com; dkim=neutral (message not signed) header.i=none X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AjMGAB+xFEtAZnwN/2dsb2JhbABWeJJdhGaoC5gBhDEE X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.47,321,1257120000"; d="scan'208";a="226532356" Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com ([64.102.124.13]) by sj-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 01 Dec 2009 14:06:14 +0000 Received: from sbrim-mbp.local (bxb-vpn3-688.cisco.com [10.86.250.176]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.13.8/8.14.3) with ESMTP id nB1E6D9C000029 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 2009 14:06:14 GMT Message-ID: <4B1522D5.2060305@cisco.com> Date: Tue, 01 Dec 2009 09:06:13 -0500 From: Scott Brim Organization: Cisco Systems, Inc. User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Macintosh/20090812) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tools-discuss@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Tools-discuss] wiki.tools.ietf.org certificate expired on Nov 30th X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Dec 2009 14:06:22 -0000 so says Firefox. From jhutz@cmu.edu Tue Dec 1 18:14:20 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E52BB3A69CE for ; Tue, 1 Dec 2009 18:14:20 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.851 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.851 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.252, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id c9KkG3X0nFMI for ; Tue, 1 Dec 2009 18:14:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp03.srv.cs.cmu.edu (SMTP03.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.217.198]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDA1E3A688F for ; Tue, 1 Dec 2009 18:14:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from ATLANTIS.WV.CS.CMU.EDU (SIRIUS.FAC.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.216.216]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp03.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id nB22E8v3005706 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 1 Dec 2009 21:14:10 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 01 Dec 2009 21:14:08 -0500 From: Jeffrey Hutzelman To: tools-discuss@ietf.org Message-ID: X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.8 (Linux/x86) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.217.198 Cc: jhutz@cmu.edu Subject: [Tools-discuss] auth48 diffs? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Dec 2009 02:14:21 -0000 It's really useful that the HTML id/rfc interfaces let you flip between versions, perform diffs, and follow the lifetime of a document through multiple filenames and eventual publication as an RFC. I use these capabilities a lot in reviewing documents, especially in managing WG documents to insure issues have been resolved as they approach WGLC and then make their way through the process. I can't imagine handling such tasks without these features. For documents in AUTH48, it would be terribly convenient for the version progression to extend into the RFC-to-be, so it is easy to examine differences between the last I-D version and the RFC-Editor's proposed final document. -- Jeff From julian.reschke@gmx.de Wed Dec 2 00:42:32 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD24628C179 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 2009 00:42:32 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.376 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.376 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.777, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uYrybp2H-QKO for ; Wed, 2 Dec 2009 00:42:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 8796628C174 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 2009 00:42:17 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 02 Dec 2009 08:42:06 -0000 Received: from p508FBC11.dip.t-dialin.net (EHLO [192.168.178.33]) [80.143.188.17] by mail.gmx.net (mp065) with SMTP; 02 Dec 2009 09:42:06 +0100 X-Authenticated: #1915285 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1853Q53Vbo5uW/BQ1qx39gz8skwpdAehEhovr3uTR m/rQHKnhdrZm/w Message-ID: <4B162854.6050102@gmx.de> Date: Wed, 02 Dec 2009 09:41:56 +0100 From: Julian Reschke User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; de; rv:1.8.0.4) Gecko/20060516 Thunderbird/1.5.0.4 Mnenhy/0.7.4.666 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jeffrey Hutzelman References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-FuHaFi: 0.6899999999999999 Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] auth48 diffs? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Dec 2009 08:42:32 -0000 Jeffrey Hutzelman wrote: > It's really useful that the HTML id/rfc interfaces let you flip between > versions, perform diffs, and follow the lifetime of a document through > multiple filenames and eventual publication as an RFC. I use these > capabilities a lot in reviewing documents, especially in managing WG > documents to insure issues have been resolved as they approach WGLC and > then make their way through the process. I can't imagine handling such > tasks without these features. > > For documents in AUTH48, it would be terribly convenient for the version > progression to extend into the RFC-to-be, so it is easy to examine > differences between the last I-D version and the RFC-Editor's proposed > final document. > ... A simple way to achieve this would be the post the proposed final document as Internet Draft. Best regards, Julian From henrik@levkowetz.com Wed Dec 2 02:59:44 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C86A23A6A64 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 2009 02:59:44 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -104.3 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-104.3 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=2.300, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Tqln7dhxvg45 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 2009 02:59:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from merlot.tools.ietf.org (merlot.tools.ietf.org [194.146.105.14]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 640213A683E for ; Wed, 2 Dec 2009 02:59:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from brunello.autonomica.se ([2a01:3f0:1:0:21e:c2ff:fe13:7e3e]:64529 helo=dyn-fg117.sth.netnod.se) by merlot.tools.ietf.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NFmsc-00084U-VO; Wed, 02 Dec 2009 11:56:19 +0100 Message-ID: <4B1647D2.9040402@levkowetz.com> Date: Wed, 02 Dec 2009 11:56:18 +0100 From: Henrik Levkowetz User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Macintosh/20090812) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Scott Brim References: <4B1522D5.2060305@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <4B1522D5.2060305@cisco.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.96.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 2a01:3f0:1:0:21e:c2ff:fe13:7e3e X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: sbrim@cisco.com, tools-discuss@ietf.org, henrik-sent@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1 (built Sat, 01 Aug 2009 12:09:26 +0000) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on merlot.tools.ietf.org) Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] wiki.tools.ietf.org certificate expired on Nov 30th X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Dec 2009 10:59:44 -0000 On 2009-12-01 15:06 Scott Brim said the following: > so says Firefox. Should be fixed now. Henrik From touch@ISI.EDU Wed Dec 2 07:17:09 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 872F528C1DD for ; Wed, 2 Dec 2009 07:17:09 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.587 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.587 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.012, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id D7wvetLaJfez for ; Wed, 2 Dec 2009 07:17:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from vapor.isi.edu (vapor.isi.edu [128.9.64.64]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B59E428C1C0 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 2009 07:17:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.43] (pool-71-106-88-10.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net [71.106.88.10]) (authenticated bits=0) by vapor.isi.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id nB2FGBnY000470 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Wed, 2 Dec 2009 07:16:13 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <4B1684BB.6050902@isi.edu> Date: Wed, 02 Dec 2009 07:16:11 -0800 From: Joe Touch User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Windows/20090812) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Julian Reschke References: <4B162854.6050102@gmx.de> In-Reply-To: <4B162854.6050102@gmx.de> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.96.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ISI-4-43-8-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-From: touch@isi.edu Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org, Jeffrey Hutzelman Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] auth48 diffs? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Dec 2009 15:17:09 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Julian Reschke wrote: > Jeffrey Hutzelman wrote: >> It's really useful that the HTML id/rfc interfaces let you flip >> between versions, perform diffs, and follow the lifetime of a document >> through multiple filenames and eventual publication as an RFC. I use >> these capabilities a lot in reviewing documents, especially in >> managing WG documents to insure issues have been resolved as they >> approach WGLC and then make their way through the process. I can't >> imagine handling such tasks without these features. >> >> For documents in AUTH48, it would be terribly convenient for the >> version progression to extend into the RFC-to-be, so it is easy to >> examine differences between the last I-D version and the RFC-Editor's >> proposed final document. >> ... > > A simple way to achieve this would be the post the proposed final > document as Internet Draft. That would be sufficient for 6 months ;-) Joe -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (MingW32) iEYEARECAAYFAksWhLsACgkQE5f5cImnZruS+wCgy7OuzgRISwcqSwW/zlxXfc0j n8UAnip53YJeXvo52aMk2DksZO2XAcFW =tJzc -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From julian.reschke@gmx.de Wed Dec 2 07:23:21 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 603F33A6817 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 2009 07:23:21 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.8 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.8 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-2.201, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CUvhhBpFpzWK for ; Wed, 2 Dec 2009 07:23:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 3278A3A67FA for ; Wed, 2 Dec 2009 07:23:19 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 02 Dec 2009 15:23:11 -0000 Received: from mail.greenbytes.de (EHLO [192.168.1.105]) [217.91.35.233] by mail.gmx.net (mp043) with SMTP; 02 Dec 2009 16:23:11 +0100 X-Authenticated: #1915285 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX18BMSwgCu0BZU5oz4FYtul+THl012t4htTb42PCuT SYCO/8vVd5qCWR Message-ID: <4B168659.3000405@gmx.de> Date: Wed, 02 Dec 2009 16:23:05 +0100 From: Julian Reschke User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; de; rv:1.8.0.4) Gecko/20060516 Thunderbird/1.5.0.4 Mnenhy/0.7.4.666 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Joe Touch References: <4B162854.6050102@gmx.de> <4B1684BB.6050902@isi.edu> In-Reply-To: <4B1684BB.6050902@isi.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-FuHaFi: 0.78 Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org, Jeffrey Hutzelman Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] auth48 diffs? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Dec 2009 15:23:21 -0000 Joe Touch wrote: > ... >> A simple way to achieve this would be the post the proposed final >> document as Internet Draft. > > That would be sufficient for 6 months ;-) > ... I thought we were talking about the services offered by tools.ietf.org, which indeed keeps the copies of expired drafts. BR, Julian From jhutz@cmu.edu Wed Dec 2 07:28:12 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7193928C1FA for ; Wed, 2 Dec 2009 07:28:12 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.83 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.83 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.231, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AFpsZm2QenA2 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 2009 07:28:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp01.srv.cs.cmu.edu (SMTP01.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.217.196]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 995CF28C1F1 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 2009 07:28:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from ATLANTIS.WV.CS.CMU.EDU (SIRIUS.FAC.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.216.216]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp01.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id nB2FRx6l022701 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 2 Dec 2009 10:28:00 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 02 Dec 2009 10:27:59 -0500 From: Jeffrey Hutzelman To: Julian Reschke Message-ID: <4323DEF2EFCFE159562A5693@atlantis.pc.cs.cmu.edu> In-Reply-To: <4B162854.6050102@gmx.de> References: <4B162854.6050102@gmx.de> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.8 (Linux/x86) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.217.196 Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org, jhutz@cmu.edu Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] auth48 diffs? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Dec 2009 15:28:12 -0000 --On Wednesday, December 02, 2009 09:41:56 AM +0100 Julian Reschke wrote: > Jeffrey Hutzelman wrote: >> It's really useful that the HTML id/rfc interfaces let you flip between >> versions, perform diffs, and follow the lifetime of a document through >> multiple filenames and eventual publication as an RFC. I use these >> capabilities a lot in reviewing documents, especially in managing WG >> documents to insure issues have been resolved as they approach WGLC and >> then make their way through the process. I can't imagine handling such >> tasks without these features. >> >> For documents in AUTH48, it would be terribly convenient for the version >> progression to extend into the RFC-to-be, so it is easy to examine >> differences between the last I-D version and the RFC-Editor's proposed >> final document. >> ... > > A simple way to achieve this would be the post the proposed final > document as Internet Draft. That gets messy... Posting a new I-D version requires cooperation of the document author, and will likely confuse the RFC-Editor. Also, the "final" version tends to change frequently; posting each version as a new I-D could significantly increase the number of I-D versions on file for a document. -- Jeff From julian.reschke@gmx.de Wed Dec 2 07:39:25 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F6583A67FA for ; Wed, 2 Dec 2009 07:39:25 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.761 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.761 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-2.162, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rjYsPCvExhiV for ; Wed, 2 Dec 2009 07:39:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 4CEAF3A6848 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 2009 07:39:23 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 02 Dec 2009 15:39:15 -0000 Received: from mail.greenbytes.de (EHLO [192.168.1.105]) [217.91.35.233] by mail.gmx.net (mp005) with SMTP; 02 Dec 2009 16:39:15 +0100 X-Authenticated: #1915285 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX198Zh0MnoZ8PjJThzCzvFUpI6BDC9kSTb+URVidpc eipbBgLqcXE9+M Message-ID: <4B168A1E.5040409@gmx.de> Date: Wed, 02 Dec 2009 16:39:10 +0100 From: Julian Reschke User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; de; rv:1.8.0.4) Gecko/20060516 Thunderbird/1.5.0.4 Mnenhy/0.7.4.666 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jeffrey Hutzelman References: <4B162854.6050102@gmx.de> <4323DEF2EFCFE159562A5693@atlantis.pc.cs.cmu.edu> In-Reply-To: <4323DEF2EFCFE159562A5693@atlantis.pc.cs.cmu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-FuHaFi: 0.71 Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] auth48 diffs? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Dec 2009 15:39:25 -0000 Jeffrey Hutzelman wrote: > ... > That gets messy... Posting a new I-D version requires cooperation of > the document author, and will likely confuse the RFC-Editor. Also, the > "final" version tends to change frequently; posting each version as a > new I-D could significantly increase the number of I-D versions on file > for a document. > ... Oh, I didn't realize that you wanted diffs for every single change. In which case another obvious suggestion would be to have all changes being done in a revision control system with public read access. Best regards, Julian PS: I still think it would be good to post the the "final" text as an I-D for tracking purposes From touch@ISI.EDU Wed Dec 2 07:49:21 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2496E3A6955 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 2009 07:49:21 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.589 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.589 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.010, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 80+bYg9DYjR5 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 2009 07:49:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from nitro.isi.edu (nitro.isi.edu [128.9.208.207]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 729563A6945 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 2009 07:49:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.43] (pool-71-106-88-10.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net [71.106.88.10]) (authenticated bits=0) by nitro.isi.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id nB2Flgdn025957 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Wed, 2 Dec 2009 07:47:46 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <4B168C1E.4000104@isi.edu> Date: Wed, 02 Dec 2009 07:47:42 -0800 From: Joe Touch User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Windows/20090812) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Julian Reschke References: <4B162854.6050102@gmx.de> <4B1684BB.6050902@isi.edu> <4B168659.3000405@gmx.de> In-Reply-To: <4B168659.3000405@gmx.de> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.96.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-MailScanner-ID: nB2Flgdn025957 X-ISI-4-69-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-From: touch@isi.edu Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org, Jeffrey Hutzelman Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] auth48 diffs? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Dec 2009 15:49:21 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Julian Reschke wrote: > Joe Touch wrote: >> ... >>> A simple way to achieve this would be the post the proposed final >>> document as Internet Draft. >> >> That would be sufficient for 6 months ;-) >> ... > > I thought we were talking about the services offered by tools.ietf.org, > which indeed keeps the copies of expired drafts. Hmm. The ISOC is allowed to keep copies for IPR reasons, but I wasn't aware that they authorized the public posting of them after they have expired. There is a reason they expire. If this behavior continues, we should either just publish IDs and skip the RFCs altogether, or just stop writing IDs. Joe -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (MingW32) iEYEARECAAYFAksWjB4ACgkQE5f5cImnZrvvcwCdEuurwaMJ8l0uHDeQzV9pYuKY 6mIAoITwyU9VRfeSfwwFHf7sENu2OyT9 =ufNi -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jhutz@cmu.edu Wed Dec 2 07:51:10 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A67383A68D4 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 2009 07:51:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.812 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.812 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.213, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aSzIfZEIdsUc for ; Wed, 2 Dec 2009 07:51:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp01.srv.cs.cmu.edu (SMTP01.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.217.196]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDBD43A6811 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 2009 07:51:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from ATLANTIS.WV.CS.CMU.EDU (SIRIUS.FAC.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.216.216]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp01.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id nB2FowKu023263 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 2 Dec 2009 10:50:58 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 02 Dec 2009 10:50:58 -0500 From: Jeffrey Hutzelman To: Julian Reschke Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4B168A1E.5040409@gmx.de> References: <4B162854.6050102@gmx.de> <4323DEF2EFCFE159562A5693@atlantis.pc.cs.cmu.edu> <4B168A1E.5040409@gmx.de> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.8 (Linux/x86) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.217.196 Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org, jhutz@cmu.edu Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] auth48 diffs? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Dec 2009 15:51:10 -0000 --On Wednesday, December 02, 2009 04:39:10 PM +0100 Julian Reschke wrote: > Jeffrey Hutzelman wrote: >> ... >> That gets messy... Posting a new I-D version requires cooperation of >> the document author, and will likely confuse the RFC-Editor. Also, the >> "final" version tends to change frequently; posting each version as a >> new I-D could significantly increase the number of I-D versions on file >> for a document. >> ... > > Oh, I didn't realize that you wanted diffs for every single change. Well, I don't think we need to keep every (or any) intermediate version, but yes, it would be nice for an author or shepherd or AD to be able to see at any time during AUTH48 what the current differences are between the last I-D and the edited document, especially when the author and copy editor have had a long discussion about changes. Note that AUTH48 can last a long time; for one recently published RFC, it took nearly 9 months. > In which case another obvious suggestion would be to have all changes > being done in a revision control system with public read access. Yes, that would be useful. How much ability do we have to influence the way the RFC Production Center does its work? > PS: I still think it would be good to post the the "final" text as an I-D > for tracking purposes I'm not sure why -- it's the same as the published RFC, and the tools already provide convenient access to that. From julian.reschke@gmx.de Wed Dec 2 08:00:25 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 917583A698C for ; Wed, 2 Dec 2009 08:00:25 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.736 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.736 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-2.137, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bmyrge19j4Jh for ; Wed, 2 Dec 2009 08:00:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 4632E3A6ABC for ; Wed, 2 Dec 2009 08:00:24 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 02 Dec 2009 16:00:15 -0000 Received: from mail.greenbytes.de (EHLO [192.168.1.105]) [217.91.35.233] by mail.gmx.net (mp045) with SMTP; 02 Dec 2009 17:00:15 +0100 X-Authenticated: #1915285 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX19Zpb5MelFZqRDxhN2+bWF8eQD8QdyUtUtuVtYUHX EI/YulUQvBOnUe Message-ID: <4B168F09.1080309@gmx.de> Date: Wed, 02 Dec 2009 17:00:09 +0100 From: Julian Reschke User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; de; rv:1.8.0.4) Gecko/20060516 Thunderbird/1.5.0.4 Mnenhy/0.7.4.666 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jeffrey Hutzelman References: <4B162854.6050102@gmx.de> <4323DEF2EFCFE159562A5693@atlantis.pc.cs.cmu.edu> <4B168A1E.5040409@gmx.de> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-FuHaFi: 0.7 Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] auth48 diffs? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Dec 2009 16:00:25 -0000 Jeffrey Hutzelman wrote: > ... >> PS: I still think it would be good to post the the "final" text as an I-D >> for tracking purposes > > I'm not sure why -- it's the same as the published RFC, and the tools > already provide convenient access to that. > ... The main reason I can think of is that publication as an ID would potentially *prevent* something to be published as RFC; so it would be for community review, albeit for a very short time (a few days)? Best regards, Julian From cabo@tzi.org Wed Dec 2 08:27:15 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9A7828C1FC for ; Wed, 2 Dec 2009 08:27:15 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.249 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.249 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ve3PG79OJOhZ for ; Wed, 2 Dec 2009 08:27:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9:209:3dff:fe00:7136]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6708C3A6403 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 2009 08:27:14 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de (smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de [134.102.224.120]) by informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id nB2GQrfc018327; Wed, 2 Dec 2009 17:26:53 +0100 (CET) Received: from [192.168.217.101] (p5489FC60.dip.t-dialin.net [84.137.252.96]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF42DB8FA; Wed, 2 Dec 2009 17:26:51 +0100 (CET) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1077) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 17:26:50 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <4B162854.6050102@gmx.de> <4323DEF2EFCFE159562A5693@atlantis.pc.cs.cmu.edu> <4B168A1E.5040409@gmx.de> To: Jeffrey Hutzelman X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1077) Cc: Tools Team Discussion Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] auth48 diffs? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Dec 2009 16:27:15 -0000 On Dec 2, 2009, at 16:50, Jeffrey Hutzelman wrote: > Well, I don't think we need to keep every (or any) intermediate = version, but yes, it would be nice for an author or shepherd or AD to be = able to see at any time during AUTH48 what the current differences are = between the last I-D and the edited document,=20 I'm a bit confused by this discussion. The RFC editor tends to put out files like http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/authors/rfc5756-diff.html which I have used a lot during AUTH48. (Yes, these go away when the RFC has been published, so I'm pointing to = a random current one.) What would a tools implementation add? Gruesse, Carsten From jhutz@cmu.edu Wed Dec 2 08:45:41 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7AB53A6870 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 2009 08:45:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.797 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.797 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.198, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id k9v9OGqoP0j4 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 2009 08:45:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp01.srv.cs.cmu.edu (SMTP01.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.217.196]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 432DE3A67AC for ; Wed, 2 Dec 2009 08:45:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from ATLANTIS.WV.CS.CMU.EDU (SIRIUS.FAC.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.216.216]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp01.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id nB2GjPgj024410 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 2 Dec 2009 11:45:26 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 02 Dec 2009 11:45:25 -0500 From: Jeffrey Hutzelman To: Carsten Bormann Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: <4B162854.6050102@gmx.de> <4323DEF2EFCFE159562A5693@atlantis.pc.cs.cmu.edu> <4B168A1E.5040409@gmx.de> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.8 (Linux/x86) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.217.196 Cc: Tools Team Discussion , jhutz@cmu.edu Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] auth48 diffs? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Dec 2009 16:45:41 -0000 --On Wednesday, December 02, 2009 05:26:50 PM +0100 Carsten Bormann wrote: > On Dec 2, 2009, at 16:50, Jeffrey Hutzelman wrote: > >> Well, I don't think we need to keep every (or any) intermediate version, >> but yes, it would be nice for an author or shepherd or AD to be able to >> see at any time during AUTH48 what the current differences are between >> the last I-D and the edited document, > > I'm a bit confused by this discussion. > The RFC editor tends to put out files like > > http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/authors/rfc5756-diff.html > > which I have used a lot during AUTH48. > (Yes, these go away when the RFC has been published, so I'm pointing to a > random current one.) > > What would a tools implementation add? - colored diffs (the "diff2" link) which IMHO are much more usable - easy reference from the hTML I-D page - all of the usual bells and whistles on the HTML I-D page -- Jeff From adam@nostrum.com Wed Dec 2 08:55:33 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CEBBD3A6839 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 2009 08:55:33 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.858 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.858 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.258, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hma57IFwhIE9 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 2009 08:55:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from nostrum.com (nostrum-pt.tunnel.tserv2.fmt.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f03:267::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7977C3A67F4 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 2009 08:55:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from [172.16.3.231] (vicuna-alt.estacado.net [75.53.54.121]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id nB2GtKgp032339 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 2 Dec 2009 10:55:20 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from adam@nostrum.com) Message-ID: <4B169BF8.1060808@nostrum.com> Date: Wed, 02 Dec 2009 10:55:20 -0600 From: Adam Roach User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; en-US; rv:1.9.1.5) Gecko/20091121 Thunderbird/3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jeffrey Hutzelman References: <4B162854.6050102@gmx.de> <4323DEF2EFCFE159562A5693@atlantis.pc.cs.cmu.edu> <4B168A1E.5040409@gmx.de> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received-SPF: pass (nostrum.com: 75.53.54.121 is authenticated by a trusted mechanism) Cc: Carsten Bormann , Tools Team Discussion Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] auth48 diffs? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Dec 2009 16:55:33 -0000 On 12/2/09 10:45 AM, Jeffrey Hutzelman wrote: > --On Wednesday, December 02, 2009 05:26:50 PM +0100 Carsten Bormann > wrote: > >> On Dec 2, 2009, at 16:50, Jeffrey Hutzelman wrote: >> >>> Well, I don't think we need to keep every (or any) intermediate >>> version, >>> but yes, it would be nice for an author or shepherd or AD to be able to >>> see at any time during AUTH48 what the current differences are between >>> the last I-D and the edited document, >> >> I'm a bit confused by this discussion. >> The RFC editor tends to put out files like >> >> http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/authors/rfc5756-diff.html >> >> which I have used a lot during AUTH48. >> (Yes, these go away when the RFC has been published, so I'm pointing >> to a >> random current one.) >> >> What would a tools implementation add? > > - colored diffs (the "diff2" link) which IMHO are much more usable http://tools.ietf.org//rfcdiff?url1=draft-ietf-pkix-rfc4055-update-02&url2=http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/authors/rfc5756.txt /a From hagens@ISI.EDU Wed Dec 2 10:01:31 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F18A33A6A31 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 2009 10:01:31 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id C+nynST4DPeW for ; Wed, 2 Dec 2009 10:01:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from nitro.isi.edu (nitro.isi.edu [128.9.208.207]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E865C3A69DD for ; Wed, 2 Dec 2009 10:01:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from [128.9.176.213] (c2-vpn04.isi.edu [128.9.176.213]) (authenticated bits=0) by nitro.isi.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id nB2I01ik022331 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Wed, 2 Dec 2009 10:00:02 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <4B162854.6050102@gmx.de> <4323DEF2EFCFE159562A5693@atlantis.pc.cs.cmu.edu> <4B168A1E.5040409@gmx.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v753.1) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <6366E552-89D7-456C-957F-442BECE358CF@isi.edu> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Alice Hagens Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 13:00:00 -0500 To: Jeffrey Hutzelman X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.753.1) X-MailScanner-ID: nB2I01ik022331 X-ISI-4-69-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-From: hagens@isi.edu Cc: Carsten Bormann , Tools Team Discussion , RFC Editor Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] auth48 diffs? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Dec 2009 18:01:32 -0000 As Carsten pointed out, the AUTH48 notification message from the RFC Editor includes a link to the diff file (e.g., http://www.rfc- editor.org/authors/rfc5687-diff.html). Also, there is a link to the diff file from the AUTH48 status page, e.g., http://www.rfc- editor.org/auth48/rfc5687. The AUTH48 diff files are provided for the authors' convenience. IMHO, the intermediary versions between approved Internet-Draft and published RFC are for author review, not for posting as I-Ds. Jeff wrote: > - colored diffs (the "diff2" link) which IMHO are much more usable As for using rfcdiff (a.k.a. Diff2) instead of htmlwdiff (a.k.a. Diff1) for AUTH48 purposes, one reason we prefer htmlwdiff is because it shows the document as a whole, not just the portions containing changes. The htmlwdiff file contains the whole document, thus providing the context of the changes. (For example, this is needed when reviewing changes made for consistency within a document.) Although if you want the rfcdiff file, as Adam pointed out, it is easy to view: > http://tools.ietf.org//rfcdiff?url1=draft-ietf-pkix-rfc4055- > update-02&url2=http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/authors/rfc5756.txt We welcome suggestions, and we'll investigate the issue more post- transition. Thank you. Alice for the RFC Editor On Dec 2, 2009, at 11:26 AM, Carsten Bormann wrote: > On Dec 2, 2009, at 16:50, Jeffrey Hutzelman wrote: > >> Well, I don't think we need to keep every (or any) intermediate >> version, but yes, it would be nice for an author or shepherd or AD >> to be able to see at any time during AUTH48 what the current >> differences are between the last I-D and the edited document, > > I'm a bit confused by this discussion. > The RFC editor tends to put out files like > > http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/authors/rfc5756-diff.html > > which I have used a lot during AUTH48. > (Yes, these go away when the RFC has been published, so I'm > pointing to a random current one.) > > What would a tools implementation add? > > Gruesse, Carsten > > _______________________________________________ > Tools-discuss mailing list > Tools-discuss@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From jhutz@cmu.edu Wed Dec 2 10:57:04 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B26C13A697C for ; Wed, 2 Dec 2009 10:57:04 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.784 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.784 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.185, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TLUItWLw-llQ for ; Wed, 2 Dec 2009 10:57:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp02.srv.cs.cmu.edu (SMTP02.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.217.197]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4B593A6945 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 2009 10:57:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from ATLANTIS.WV.CS.CMU.EDU (SIRIUS.FAC.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.216.216]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp02.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id nB2IurTi011690 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 2 Dec 2009 13:56:53 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 02 Dec 2009 13:56:53 -0500 From: Jeffrey Hutzelman To: Alice Hagens Message-ID: <196FFC7CCFA92B1E3994D462@atlantis.pc.cs.cmu.edu> In-Reply-To: <6366E552-89D7-456C-957F-442BECE358CF@isi.edu> References: <4B162854.6050102@gmx.de> <4323DEF2EFCFE159562A5693@atlantis.pc.cs.cmu.edu> <4B168A1E.5040409@gmx.de> <6366E552-89D7-456C-957F-442BECE358CF@isi.edu> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.8 (Linux/x86) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.217.197 Cc: Carsten Bormann , jhutz@cmu.edu, Tools Team Discussion , RFC Editor Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] auth48 diffs? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Dec 2009 18:57:04 -0000 --On Wednesday, December 02, 2009 01:00:00 PM -0500 Alice Hagens wrote: > The AUTH48 diff files are provided for the authors' convenience. IMHO, > the intermediary versions between approved Internet-Draft and published > RFC are for author review, not for posting as I-Ds. I agree. > As for using rfcdiff (a.k.a. Diff2) instead of htmlwdiff (a.k.a. Diff1) > for AUTH48 purposes, one reason we prefer htmlwdiff is because it shows > the document as a whole, not just the portions containing changes. The > htmlwdiff file contains the whole document, thus providing the context of > the changes. (For example, this is needed when reviewing changes made for > consistency within a document.) This is a matter of taste. The rfcdiff output uses a color scheme that, at least for me, makes changes stand out more. As you note, htmlwdiff shows the entire document, which can be very useful, except, perhaps, when the document is NFSv4. :-) In addition, the two tools use slightly different algorithms for identifying word-level differences. In a document with complicated changes, sometimes one does a better job than the other at calling out the real changes without lots of spurious garbage. I've had at least one document where I actually used both, because it was the only way to wrap my head around the changes while retaining my sanity (IIRC, that was in dealing with post-last-call changes, rather than AUTH48). > We welcome suggestions, and we'll investigate the issue more > post-transition. Thanks. Over the past several years, the various tools available (both official and unofficial) and the level of user interface integration has gone way up, which I think makes things easier for everyone. This is, or at least I thought it was, a suggestion for something hopefully relatively simple the tools team could do (in their copious free time) to improve integration of existing tools. -- Jeff From spencer@wonderhamster.org Wed Dec 2 15:43:01 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9998B28C0F6 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 2009 15:43:01 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.346 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.346 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.248, BAYES_05=-1.11, FAKE_REPLY_C=2.012] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id H-rZIwH0+yFj for ; Wed, 2 Dec 2009 15:43:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [74.208.4.195]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B367C3A690F for ; Wed, 2 Dec 2009 15:43:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from S73602b (84-119.96-97.tampabay.res.rr.com [97.96.119.84]) by mrelay.perfora.net (node=mrus0) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0M2sXu-1O4vIz0doE-00sfsP; Wed, 02 Dec 2009 18:42:52 -0500 Message-ID: <1EB53DCD490347B885ED1F7BCC99D14C@china.huawei.com> From: "Spencer Dawkins" To: Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 18:42:39 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1/VMpG6meclqc4WZ8tXqSyoG4P6lRtimHmjsOw 3gpcv6W7cdBaBe6I5uGR6YSZtxs3D33P6Q7Bu8EBlWAx7lhhd1 xuhEQYhsBRQirnhaC81j364y20cZx6yqUol1C8GRPo= Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] auth48 diffs? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Dec 2009 23:43:01 -0000 (I submitted this earlier today, but it got wedged on the way to the mailing list. Apologies if you've already seen it!) Just to follow up on Jeff's note - I know that we're headed to a conversation that needs to happen with the larger community, but since Jeff pointed this out... >>> For documents in AUTH48, it would be terribly convenient for the version >>> progression to extend into the RFC-to-be, so it is easy to examine >>> differences between the last I-D version and the RFC-Editor's proposed >>> final document. >>> ... >> >> A simple way to achieve this would be the post the proposed final >> document as Internet Draft. > > That gets messy... Posting a new I-D version requires cooperation of the > document author, and will likely confuse the RFC-Editor. Also, the > "final" version tends to change frequently; posting each version as a new > I-D could significantly increase the number of I-D versions on file for a > document. > > -- Jeff Yeah, about that. I'm not making this up. Aaron Falk was working AT ISI when we had one of the PILC drafts go through something like 18 AUTH48 revisions based on something like 250 e-mails that copied the RFC Editor. The revisions happened for a variety of reasons, some of them good. I talked about this experience in the Working Group Leadership tutorial for several years afterwards, but I'm not proud of it (the context in the tutorial was "learn from our mistakes"). We may have set the indoor record for AUTH48 revisions, but I know that other people do multiple revisions in AUTH48, too. That's making me think along two lines: If we just dropped this change on the community, that WOULD confused people, and not just the RFC Editor (insert the visual image of ADs going "huh???" here, not to mention the working group, etc). So let's not do that. But if we thought this through, we might end up with (1) some backpressure for posting AUTH48 comments that then get modified by other authors, resetting the AUTH48 process each time, instead of having the conversations and THEN posting AUTH48 comments - maybe not once, but a smaller number of times, and (2) greater visibility for the working group that post-approval changes are happening, and people who care might want to look at diffs, which would be easy because the changes show up as just another draft revision. At this time, I don't believe the working group gets any notification about these changes until the RFC is published, unless an editor/working group chair/AD chooses to manually post a note about the changes on the working group mailing list. In my experience, both of these changes would be beneficial. If most authors/editors just tell the RFC Editor "the AUTH48 version is fine", this would be a no-op for them, of course. Do people think we should continue this discussion on the WG chairs mailing list, for example? Or on the IETF discussion list? Thanks, Spencer From brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com Wed Dec 2 17:45:48 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C20363A69A4 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 2009 17:45:48 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kFGph0krhsIo for ; Wed, 2 Dec 2009 17:45:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pw0-f50.google.com (mail-pw0-f50.google.com [209.85.160.50]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC6053A69BB for ; Wed, 2 Dec 2009 17:45:41 -0800 (PST) Received: by pwi19 with SMTP id 19so711960pwi.29 for ; Wed, 02 Dec 2009 17:45:31 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from :organization:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=smAlvETKoG9Skzzn6DHBAaF3hxAkxoIt2Qn+XZ9w7j8=; b=Rw1VZLXACd1VcZjPT3OTPgcgJLKOYgYOR2WKaYtX5ORQql9n2zthPWsP5KR+B2ywwa j9z+sVcfEZGPaZnyOyeQ/k+/869fzpkepP/llegHSaFUnWucY0mBA4IFUZYwljbRWCVZ oZiu+89SdUOyJIuNCgw7rIqawpNLSOALr3fAQ= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:organization:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc :subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=xIlQW+u3wXzwwhmclbfbiKy5ocgKWu6W/HQheB3sjh7V7ZVfttEJqZuxRIVnxwm+dC s2Qgxz7l1RArSy2tyXLn7krWF4/YLLOIwV16fyKPt/EIWBUKoshAUZt8YFlR2DNoOG64 3WZmcPKgGMZ2m22ixuSNIycpbLdistvkYlQSI= Received: by 10.114.237.30 with SMTP id k30mr1560390wah.102.1259804731008; Wed, 02 Dec 2009 17:45:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?130.216.38.124? (stf-brian.sfac.auckland.ac.nz [130.216.38.124]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 22sm1276534pzk.10.2009.12.02.17.45.29 (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Wed, 02 Dec 2009 17:45:30 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <4B171842.7030204@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 03 Dec 2009 14:45:38 +1300 From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: University of Auckland User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Spencer Dawkins References: <1EB53DCD490347B885ED1F7BCC99D14C@china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <1EB53DCD490347B885ED1F7BCC99D14C@china.huawei.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] auth48 diffs? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Dec 2009 01:45:48 -0000 > Do people think we should continue this discussion on the WG chairs mailing > list, for example? Or on the IETF discussion list? And is this a new discussion? I seem to remember having it a few times before (so I've deleted most of this thread unread). After IESG approval, there should be *no* substantive change without rechecking consensus with the WG. Maybe the PILC case had 18 editorial changes that need 250 emails to get them right. I don't know. But if even one of those changes was a real technical change, it should have gone back to the WG. Whether a new I-D is needed is surely a matter of common sense in a particular case. I can't get excited about it, but it obviously isn't needed in the majority of cases, otherwise we'd be having this conversation every week. Brian From Pasi.Eronen@nokia.com Thu Dec 3 01:12:06 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE67C28C0ED for ; Thu, 3 Dec 2009 01:12:04 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.515 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.515 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.084, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OSRlP0M8ikNu for ; Thu, 3 Dec 2009 01:11:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from mgw-mx09.nokia.com (smtp.nokia.com [192.100.105.134]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 255B128C129 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 2009 01:11:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from esebh106.NOE.Nokia.com (esebh106.ntc.nokia.com [172.21.138.213]) by mgw-mx09.nokia.com (Switch-3.3.3/Switch-3.3.3) with ESMTP id nB39BK7V024059; Thu, 3 Dec 2009 03:11:42 -0600 Received: from esebh102.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.21.138.183]) by esebh106.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Thu, 3 Dec 2009 11:11:35 +0200 Received: from smtp.mgd.nokia.com ([65.54.30.6]) by esebh102.NOE.Nokia.com over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Thu, 3 Dec 2009 11:11:35 +0200 Received: from NOK-EUMSG-01.mgdnok.nokia.com ([65.54.30.106]) by nok-am1mhub-02.mgdnok.nokia.com ([65.54.30.6]) with mapi; Thu, 3 Dec 2009 10:11:34 +0100 From: To: Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 10:11:32 +0100 Thread-Topic: [Tools-discuss] auth48 diffs? Thread-Index: AcpzgUQNqPPxXaVzRDG63jePPWC5uQAdlLug Message-ID: <808FD6E27AD4884E94820BC333B2DB774F31233F59@NOK-EUMSG-01.mgdnok.nokia.com> References: <4B162854.6050102@gmx.de> <4323DEF2EFCFE159562A5693@atlantis.pc.cs.cmu.edu> <4B168A1E.5040409@gmx.de> <6366E552-89D7-456C-957F-442BECE358CF@isi.edu> <196FFC7CCFA92B1E3994D462@atlantis.pc.cs.cmu.edu> In-Reply-To: <196FFC7CCFA92B1E3994D462@atlantis.pc.cs.cmu.edu> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Dec 2009 09:11:35.0851 (UTC) FILETIME=[9D1D57B0:01CA73F8] X-Nokia-AV: Clean Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org, rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] auth48 diffs? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Dec 2009 09:12:07 -0000 Jeffrey Hutzelman wrote: > This is a matter of taste. The rfcdiff output uses a color scheme > that, at least for me, makes changes stand out more. =20 Not only taste! The htmlwdiff output assumes that red text stands out very clearly from green text, and vice versa. This is not the case for ~7% of male RFC authors, who have genes that "moderately affect red-green hue discrimination" (to use a phrase from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_blindness -- you can tell red and green apart, but red text doesn't immediately stand out from green text, or vice versa). The color scheme used in rfcdiff relies much less on red-green hues.=20 Best regards, Pasi From lars.eggert@nokia.com Thu Dec 3 16:08:41 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CC5E3A6836 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 2009 16:08:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Uj7KhHmyfJ9B for ; Thu, 3 Dec 2009 16:08:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.fit.nokia.com (mail.fit.nokia.com [195.148.124.195]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85ABC3A681B for ; Thu, 3 Dec 2009 16:08:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.1.3.153] (64-129-14-254.static.twtelecom.net [64.129.14.254] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by mail.fit.nokia.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id nB408GpP029617 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Fri, 4 Dec 2009 02:08:18 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from lars.eggert@nokia.com) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1077) Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary=Apple-Mail-42-257733087; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1 From: Lars Eggert In-Reply-To: <4B1684BB.6050902@isi.edu> Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 14:08:10 -1000 Message-Id: References: <4B162854.6050102@gmx.de> <4B1684BB.6050902@isi.edu> To: Joe Touch X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1077) X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.3 (mail.fit.nokia.com [212.213.221.39]); Fri, 04 Dec 2009 02:08:20 +0200 (EET) Cc: Julian Reschke , "tools-discuss@ietf.org" , Jeffrey Hutzelman Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] auth48 diffs? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Dec 2009 00:08:41 -0000 --Apple-Mail-42-257733087 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On 2009-12-2, at 5:16, Joe Touch wrote: > Julian Reschke wrote: >> A simple way to achieve this would be the post the proposed final >> document as Internet Draft. >=20 > That would be sufficient for 6 months ;-) Drafts don't time out anymore during and after IESG evaluation, so this = would actually work fine IMO. 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Fri, 4 Dec 2009 07:10:20 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.001 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nfyI4fL4qGHK for ; Fri, 4 Dec 2009 07:10:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from sccmmhc92.asp.att.net (sccmmhc92.asp.att.net [204.127.203.212]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BBA03A684A for ; Fri, 4 Dec 2009 07:10:18 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; q=dns/txt; d=mchsi.com; s=dkim01; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1259939410; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Date:Subject:To:From; bh=t4A0M pH3ggkMjvhXvIhpFO4ZnX1pOqLJH4qJKDCyA/Y=; b=wsoYh3zF/VQMOFj8tEAjfc75 CPXRe0JjRytukYiPHz4RrBvN4VoLesO7aHw9C1VBKBKHzU3tGjUl1ine83ey+w== Received: from dellinspiron530 (173-20-81-156.client.mchsi.com[173.20.81.156]) by mchsi.com (sccmmhc92) with SMTP id <20091204151009m9200qrfbte>; Fri, 4 Dec 2009 15:10:09 +0000 From: "Lowell Thomas" To: Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2009 10:10:02 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 Importance: Normal Subject: [Tools-discuss] A New ABNF Web Service X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Dec 2009 15:10:21 -0000 I’m new to this list and even though I have read RFC 4677 I’m still pretty fuzzy on how this all works. I’d like to contribute but I’m not sure where I might fit in. I’m the developer of APG – an ABNF Parser Generator. There is a link to it on the http://tools.ietf.org/inventory/verif-tools page. I’ve just completed a web service for debugging ABNF grammars and the language sentences (or protocol messages) that the grammar defines. That is, once the grammar is syntactically correct, it generates a JavaScript parser in the background and lets you parse messages with it. You can find it a here: http://www.coasttocoastresearch.com/interactiveapg It does have some (carefully considered) deviations from RFC 4234 which I would be happy to discuss further if there is interest. If you have criticisms or comments I’d like to hear about those too, but mainly if you have any suggestions as to how I might make it more useful to the IETF I would give those suggestions serious consideration. Thanks, Lowell Thomas From brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com Fri Dec 4 11:45:40 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6EDD3A67D8 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 2009 11:45:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fIjWW6By5sxS for ; Fri, 4 Dec 2009 11:45:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pz0-f176.google.com (mail-pz0-f176.google.com [209.85.222.176]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA0E63A672E for ; Fri, 4 Dec 2009 11:45:39 -0800 (PST) Received: by pzk6 with SMTP id 6so2625573pzk.29 for ; Fri, 04 Dec 2009 11:45:28 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from :organization:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=7CDaTqCG2m6YwSi1nH4yV0cfDXWDN2+LcQSs79G527M=; b=S6tgiWBrQOo4E+2LuigcuA071kbdelAJPDb4biwrNF43tVdiHIjPekK6H5cUogn1Bn 6ZfV4TcdUhF3zGj5Cnw8TFnfP7Md1vaqbbr2g7pG4chNyv2+H40LYMpG+HsbmhBMywVN 3LKxMfvBSBkyRWVPE7i+b8Mksr7ofai3asdGE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:organization:user-agent:mime-version:to :subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=T78rZR7+9VCVjsKhbvKR2XiTo+MefxoBTVT7nOmRAzRm6pv07wPwLLh1maLZcFk/Eu m7NIR+NsV7JkFOUjMIZtA28sxSiH9nKfxciIQvflDiymnqkxvePzCupuVJHPvhdThd1g EpyGzxegdySJ3Pgytu3awMLrz+iTvlkggASsM= Received: by 10.114.251.5 with SMTP id y5mr4410205wah.215.1259955927435; Fri, 04 Dec 2009 11:45:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?10.1.1.4? ([121.98.142.15]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 22sm1153706pxi.14.2009.12.04.11.45.26 (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Fri, 04 Dec 2009 11:45:27 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <4B1966D2.90005@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 05 Dec 2009 08:45:22 +1300 From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: University of Auckland User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tools-discuss@ietf.org References: <4ADFC75A.5040209@gmail.com> <808FD6E27AD4884E94820BC333B2DB773C09B0B0FE@NOK-EUMSG-01.mgdnok.nokia.com> <4CFEEAE415874CC2ACE4D95FCB5771EF@china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <4CFEEAE415874CC2ACE4D95FCB5771EF@china.huawei.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Tools-discuss] draft-hixie-thewebsocketprotocol-100.txt X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Dec 2009 19:45:40 -0000 The current rate for this draft is one version per 4.4 days, so it looks like version 100 will appear around June 2010. Version 00 appeared in January 2009, so extrapolating from then, we won't see version 100 until August 2010. But the rate appears to be accelerating... Brian > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: I-D Action:draft-hixie-thewebsocketprotocol-60.txt > Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2009 03:45:02 -0800 (PST) > From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org > Reply-To: internet-drafts@ietf.org > To: i-d-announce@ietf.org > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. > > Title : The Web Socket protocol > Author(s) : I. Hickson > Filename : draft-hixie-thewebsocketprotocol-60.txt > Pages : 38 > Date : 2009-12-04 Regards Brian Carpenter On 2009-10-23 00:33, Spencer Dawkins wrote: > I'm thinking that we should NOT fix the tools to accommodate three-digit > draft numbers, because if this happens even once, there are things that > are more broken than the tools... > > bernard pointed me to the excellent web page > http://www.arkko.com/tools/lifecycle/extremes.html a couple of days ago. > Words fail me. > > Spencer > >>> So, half way to the interesting case of someone trying to submit >>> a -100.txt draft. How many tools will that break, I wonder? >> >> It looks like the ID submission tool does check that revision >> is <= 99. And the database field for this has type 'CHAR(2)' anyway :-) >> >> (However, I think there are places that would break if someone >> managed to submit -99; so the check should be "<= 98"). > > From stpeter@stpeter.im Fri Dec 4 12:04:15 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AFF63A67FD for ; Fri, 4 Dec 2009 12:04:15 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.555 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.555 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.044, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vBKDAEtg6Fcu for ; Fri, 4 Dec 2009 12:04:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from stpeter.im (stpeter.im [207.210.219.233]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 462563A63EB for ; Fri, 4 Dec 2009 12:04:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from dhcp-64-101-72-196.cisco.com (dhcp-64-101-72-196.cisco.com [64.101.72.196]) (Authenticated sender: stpeter) by stpeter.im (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id EEC8C40329; Fri, 4 Dec 2009 13:04:04 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <4B196B33.1060300@stpeter.im> Date: Fri, 04 Dec 2009 13:04:03 -0700 From: Peter Saint-Andre User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Macintosh/20090812) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brian E Carpenter References: <4ADFC75A.5040209@gmail.com> <808FD6E27AD4884E94820BC333B2DB773C09B0B0FE@NOK-EUMSG-01.mgdnok.nokia.com> <4CFEEAE415874CC2ACE4D95FCB5771EF@china.huawei.com> <4B1966D2.90005@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <4B1966D2.90005@gmail.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.96.0 OpenPGP: url=http://www.saint-andre.com/me/stpeter.asc Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="------------ms040706080507070208010307" Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] draft-hixie-thewebsocketprotocol-100.txt X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Dec 2009 20:04:15 -0000 This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms040706080507070208010307 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 12/4/09 12:45 PM, Brian E Carpenter wrote: > The current rate for this draft is one version per 4.4 days, > so it looks like version 100 will appear around June 2010. > > Version 00 appeared in January 2009, so extrapolating from > then, we won't see version 100 until August 2010. But the > rate appears to be accelerating... 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--------------ms040706080507070208010307-- From elwynd@dial.pipex.com Mon Dec 14 10:33:58 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 776BE3A6405 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 2009 10:33:58 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.545 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.545 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.054, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OsDch8izM31B for ; Mon, 14 Dec 2009 10:33:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from a.painless.aaisp.net.uk (a.painless.aaisp.net.uk [IPv6:2001:8b0:0:30::51bb:1e33]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E6BA3A68DB for ; Mon, 14 Dec 2009 10:33:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from 153.107.2.81.in-addr.arpa ([81.2.107.153] helo=[81.187.254.247]) by a.painless.aaisp.net.uk with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NKFjp-0007vV-10 for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Mon, 14 Dec 2009 18:33:41 +0000 Message-ID: <4B268587.5030508@dial.pipex.com> Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 18:35:51 +0000 From: Elwyn Davies User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Windows/20090812) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Tools Team Discussion Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Tools-discuss] idnits not ignoring tombstones? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 18:33:58 -0000 Hi. I updated a draft today using xml2rfc bibxml3 repository and then ran idnits. I got the following warnings: > Checking references for intended status: Informational > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > == Outdated reference: A later version (-22) exists of > draft-ietf-nsis-qspec-21 > > == Outdated reference: A later version (-06) exists of > draft-cordeiro-nsis-hypath-05 > > == Outdated reference: A later version (-01) exists of > draft-manner-nsis-gist-dccp-00 > > == Outdated reference: A later version (-05) exists of > draft-manner-nsis-nslp-auth-04 > > == Outdated reference: A later version (-02) exists of > draft-manner-nsis-peering-data-01 It looks to me as if several of these are incorrect - the most recent versions are 'tombstones' for expired drafts in some cases (draft-cordeiro and draft-manner-nsis-gist at least). Isn't idnits supposed to ignore tombstones? [The draft-ietf-nsis-qspec problem is not idnits' fault - the bibxml3 database is out of date as well.] Regards, Elwyn From henrik@levkowetz.com Mon Dec 14 15:08:46 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 451643A686E for ; Mon, 14 Dec 2009 15:08:46 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id baj3SnO34Osf for ; Mon, 14 Dec 2009 15:08:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from merlot.tools.ietf.org (merlot.tools.ietf.org [IPv6:2a01:3f0:0:31:214:22ff:fe21:bb]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54EFC3A686B for ; Mon, 14 Dec 2009 15:08:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from h-209-11.a212.priv.bahnhof.se ([85.24.209.11]:56133) by merlot.tools.ietf.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NKK1l-0003Nj-GU; Tue, 15 Dec 2009 00:08:29 +0100 Message-ID: <4B26C56C.6030508@levkowetz.com> Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 00:08:28 +0100 From: Henrik Levkowetz User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Macintosh/20090812) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Elwyn Davies References: <4B268587.5030508@dial.pipex.com> In-Reply-To: <4B268587.5030508@dial.pipex.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.96.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 85.24.209.11 X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: elwynd@dial.pipex.com, tools-discuss@ietf.org, henrik-sent@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1 (built Sat, 01 Aug 2009 12:09:26 +0000) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on merlot.tools.ietf.org) Cc: Tools Team Discussion Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] idnits not ignoring tombstones? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 23:08:46 -0000 Hi Elwyn, On 2009-12-14 19:35 Elwyn Davies said the following: > Hi. > > I updated a draft today using xml2rfc bibxml3 repository and then ran > idnits. I got the following warnings: >> Checking references for intended status: Informational >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> == Outdated reference: A later version (-22) exists of >> draft-ietf-nsis-qspec-21 >> >> == Outdated reference: A later version (-06) exists of >> draft-cordeiro-nsis-hypath-05 >> >> == Outdated reference: A later version (-01) exists of >> draft-manner-nsis-gist-dccp-00 >> >> == Outdated reference: A later version (-05) exists of >> draft-manner-nsis-nslp-auth-04 >> >> == Outdated reference: A later version (-02) exists of >> draft-manner-nsis-peering-data-01 > It looks to me as if several of these are incorrect - the most recent > versions are 'tombstones' for expired drafts in some cases > (draft-cordeiro and draft-manner-nsis-gist at least). Isn't idnits > supposed to ignore tombstones? It is, indeed. I'll have a look at the drafts above, and fix as needed. Regards, Henrik From narten@us.ibm.com Tue Dec 15 06:56:48 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 948C33A6A69 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 2009 06:56:48 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.191 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.191 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.408, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IwFsSjSwnElG for ; Tue, 15 Dec 2009 06:56:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from e8.ny.us.ibm.com (e8.ny.us.ibm.com [32.97.182.138]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2ED33A69AC for ; Tue, 15 Dec 2009 06:56:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from d01relay06.pok.ibm.com (d01relay06.pok.ibm.com [9.56.227.116]) by e8.ny.us.ibm.com (8.14.3/8.13.1) with ESMTP id nBFEpMkX001850 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 2009 09:51:22 -0500 Received: from d01av03.pok.ibm.com (d01av03.pok.ibm.com [9.56.224.217]) by d01relay06.pok.ibm.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/NCO v10.0) with ESMTP id nBFEuPd21343618 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 2009 09:56:25 -0500 Received: from d01av03.pok.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d01av03.pok.ibm.com (8.14.3/8.13.1/NCO v10.0 AVout) with ESMTP id nBFEuP7i009786 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 2009 12:56:25 -0200 Received: from cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com (sig-9-76-142-182.mts.ibm.com [9.76.142.182]) by d01av03.pok.ibm.com (8.14.3/8.13.1/NCO v10.0 AVin) with ESMTP id nBFEuNu2009727 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 15 Dec 2009 12:56:24 -0200 Received: from cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com (8.14.3/8.12.5) with ESMTP id nBFEuNKK000361 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 2009 09:56:23 -0500 Message-Id: <200912151456.nBFEuNKK000361@cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com> To: "Tools Team Discussion" Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 09:56:23 -0500 From: Thomas Narten Subject: [Tools-discuss] ID Submission tool not parsing abstract correctly X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 14:56:48 -0000 Not sure if this is for tools team or if I should just report this to ietf-action, but when submitting an ID today, I noticed that the submission tool was misparsing the abstract to include the status of the memo and other parts of the document as being "part of the abstract". Looking at some other recent ID announcements, this has been happening at least since November 23rd, but I'm not sure exactly how much before that. Who's job is this to deal with? Thomas From julian.reschke@gmx.de Tue Dec 15 07:00:24 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB92F3A6A6F for ; Tue, 15 Dec 2009 07:00:24 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.689 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.689 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-2.090, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XSX-B34mKsc6 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 2009 07:00:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 8629F3A6A81 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 2009 07:00:23 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 15 Dec 2009 15:00:01 -0000 Received: from mail.greenbytes.de (EHLO [192.168.1.105]) [217.91.35.233] by mail.gmx.net (mp036) with SMTP; 15 Dec 2009 16:00:01 +0100 X-Authenticated: #1915285 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1/7MRZGxGf7sVYHEst6ToFma56F5zs/4K1on1IGLE psGopU5ESZoZhc Message-ID: <4B27A46A.1070502@gmx.de> Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 15:59:54 +0100 From: Julian Reschke User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; de; rv:1.8.0.4) Gecko/20060516 Thunderbird/1.5.0.4 Mnenhy/0.7.4.666 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Thomas Narten References: <200912151456.nBFEuNKK000361@cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com> In-Reply-To: <200912151456.nBFEuNKK000361@cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-FuHaFi: 0.76 Cc: Tools Team Discussion Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] ID Submission tool not parsing abstract correctly X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 15:00:24 -0000 Thomas Narten wrote: > Not sure if this is for tools team or if I should just report this to > ietf-action, but when submitting an ID today, I noticed that the > submission tool was misparsing the abstract to include the status of > the memo and other parts of the document as being "part of the > abstract". > > Looking at some other recent ID announcements, this has been happening > at least since November 23rd, but I'm not sure exactly how much before > that. This may be because the Abstract now appears first on the page... > ... Best regards, Julian From Jeff.Hodges@KingsMountain.com Tue Dec 15 15:14:18 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5EC73A690B for ; Tue, 15 Dec 2009 15:14:18 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.644 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.644 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.379, BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id brsMm0bNEhNJ for ; Tue, 15 Dec 2009 15:14:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from outbound-mail-141.bluehost.com (outbound-mail-141.bluehost.com [67.222.38.31]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 9362F3A68C7 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 2009 15:14:16 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 17313 invoked by uid 0); 15 Dec 2009 23:14:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box514.bluehost.com) (74.220.219.114) by outboundproxy5.bluehost.com with SMTP; 15 Dec 2009 23:14:03 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=default; d=kingsmountain.com; h=Received:Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:CC:Subject:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Identified-User; b=3eMCfWLurVZk6PFKNRmDZZMcap3CQ2AGIjmpCEqSZ5J1AJM9PfzThWHU3yqWENpdFJd/c5tKJhEkAoLFo3RMxxASg718iTQ7dcFeU/vjvv9oiZjqFyXD3SQb++HWgkj/; Received: from outbound4.ebay.com ([216.113.168.128] helo=[10.244.48.58]) by box514.bluehost.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NKgah-0001rw-2k; Tue, 15 Dec 2009 16:14:03 -0700 Message-ID: <4B28183F.70906@KingsMountain.com> Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 15:14:07 -0800 From: =JeffH User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.14ubu (X11/20080306) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: webmaster@tools.ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Identified-User: {11025:box514.bluehost.com:kingsmou:kingsmountain.com} {sentby:smtp auth 216.113.168.128 authed with jeff.hodges+kingsmountain.com} Cc: IETF Tools List Subject: [Tools-discuss] new WG page on tools.ietf.org/wg and Trac use? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 23:14:18 -0000 Ok, I note that the below link's been added to the left-hand sidebar of tools.ietf.org.. httpstate http://tools.ietf.org/wg/httpstate/ ..but the page presently 404's. Is that because we do not as yet have any WG I-Ds ? Also, is it possible to use the Trac tracker functionality for an individual I-D, or general WG items, or must we have at least one official WG I-D active to be able to do so? thanks, =JeffH From pekkas@netcore.fi Wed Dec 16 00:53:58 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F19463A696C for ; Wed, 16 Dec 2009 00:53:58 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.475 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.475 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.124, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bBqzRMLt3zhD for ; Wed, 16 Dec 2009 00:53:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from netcore.fi (eunet-gw.ipv6.netcore.fi [IPv6:2001:670:86:3001::1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D017E3A6782 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 2009 00:53:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from netcore.fi (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by netcore.fi (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id nBG8rgJN018579 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 16 Dec 2009 10:53:42 +0200 Received: from localhost (pekkas@localhost) by netcore.fi (8.13.8/8.13.8/Submit) with ESMTP id nBG8rg8d018576 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 2009 10:53:42 +0200 Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 10:53:42 +0200 (EET) From: Pekka Savola To: tools-discuss@ietf.org Message-ID: User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (LRH 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.95.3 at otso.netcore.fi X-Virus-Status: Clean Subject: [Tools-discuss] Updates to draft-xxx@tools.ietf.org aliases stalled? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 08:53:59 -0000 Hello, Are draft-xxx@tools.ietf.org aliases supposed to be updated when a document is updated? If yes, there appears to be some problem here (I've experienced this a couple of times). For example, when sending mail to draft-ietf-dkim-deployment@tools.ietf.org, I get an autoresponder from esiegel@constantcontact.com. That was the contact in -05 of the document published on June 3, 2009. In -06 it was "esiegel@????.com". In -07 through -09 it has been "dkim@esiegel.net". It appears the updates have stalled for some reason. (Hopefully the ????.com didn't mess this up?). Not sure if this is a generic problem or specific to some document(s). -- Pekka Savola "You each name yourselves king, yet the Netcore Oy kingdom bleeds." Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings From Jeff.Hodges@KingsMountain.com Wed Dec 16 13:00:30 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50F193A6A79 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 2009 13:00:30 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.543 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.543 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.137, BAYES_20=-0.74, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fE8N-LvDiBCk for ; Wed, 16 Dec 2009 13:00:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from outbound-mail-121.bluehost.com (outbound-mail-121.bluehost.com [67.222.38.21]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 6FB573A6A03 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 2009 13:00:29 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 1979 invoked by uid 0); 16 Dec 2009 21:00:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box514.bluehost.com) (74.220.219.114) by outboundproxy4.bluehost.com with SMTP; 16 Dec 2009 21:00:14 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=default; d=kingsmountain.com; h=Received:Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:Subject:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Identified-User; b=Zg+3K+x+5RYB5dV+AXY0o5gL8jHrsrhbeRuG3A4hR57ZRGc1o+PGEtbx3R2yz74xkR5TN/6drs+KDSe+NMZX5ap7P/hErfA6wQoL7Twd+U+TLIRF8c4i8IpwqcR7C00D; Received: from outbound4.ebay.com ([216.113.168.128] helo=[10.244.48.56]) by box514.bluehost.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NL0yj-0005P3-BT; Wed, 16 Dec 2009 14:00:13 -0700 Message-ID: <4B294A62.9010701@KingsMountain.com> Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 13:00:18 -0800 From: =JeffH User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.14ubu (X11/20080306) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Henrik Levkowetz , IETF Tools List Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Identified-User: {11025:box514.bluehost.com:kingsmou:kingsmountain.com} {sentby:smtp auth 216.113.168.128 authed with jeff.hodges+kingsmountain.com} Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] new WG page on tools.ietf.org/wg and Trac use? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 21:00:30 -0000 > As noted earlier, this has been fixed. One of the servers had run out > of disk space... yes, thanks. >> Also, is it possible to use the Trac tracker functionality for an individual >> I-D, or general WG items, or must we have at least one official WG I-D active >> to be able to do so? > > You can use it for anything you like, but to classify issues under different > 'components' you need to log in using the email address associated with your > WG chair status to get admin access, and go to the admin area (admin link to hm, I don't seem to get an "Admin" link rendered on any page in the set of httpstate pages. I do get this error displayed tho.. Warning: Can't synchronize with the repository (/home/svn/wg/httpstate does not appear to be a Subversion repository.). Look in the Trac log for more information. thanks, =JeffH From henrik@levkowetz.com Wed Dec 16 14:34:03 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 020FD3A6A71 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 2009 14:34:03 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PAwkRsp7xQ+8 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 2009 14:33:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from merlot.tools.ietf.org (merlot.tools.ietf.org [IPv6:2a01:3f0:0:31:214:22ff:fe21:bb]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 619FC3A6840 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 2009 14:33:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from h-74-92.a212.priv.bahnhof.se ([94.254.74.92]:61689) by merlot.tools.ietf.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NL2R3-00070b-8C; Wed, 16 Dec 2009 23:33:33 +0100 Message-ID: <4B29603C.1000603@levkowetz.com> Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 23:33:32 +0100 From: Henrik Levkowetz User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Macintosh/20090812) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: =JeffH References: <4B294A62.9010701@KingsMountain.com> In-Reply-To: <4B294A62.9010701@KingsMountain.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.96.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 94.254.74.92 X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: Jeff.Hodges@KingsMountain.com, tools-discuss@ietf.org, henrik-sent@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1 (built Sat, 01 Aug 2009 12:09:26 +0000) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on merlot.tools.ietf.org) Cc: IETF Tools List Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] new WG page on tools.ietf.org/wg and Trac use? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 22:34:03 -0000 Hi Jeff, The full disk apparently had more repercussions. I think I've fixed them all now: On 2009-12-16 22:00 =JeffH said the following: > > As noted earlier, this has been fixed. One of the servers had run out > > of disk space... > > yes, thanks. > > >> Also, is it possible to use the Trac tracker functionality for an individual > >> I-D, or general WG items, or must we have at least one official WG I-D active > >> to be able to do so? > > > > You can use it for anything you like, but to classify issues under different > > 'components' you need to log in using the email address associated with your > > WG chair status to get admin access, and go to the admin area (admin link to > > hm, I don't seem to get an "Admin" link rendered on any page in the set of > httpstate pages. Ok, this was an issue with the case of the email address used for your chair role. Fixed so you're now registered as admin with the all-lowercase address. > I do get this error displayed tho.. > > Warning: Can't synchronize with the repository (/home/svn/wg/httpstate does not > appear to be a Subversion repository.). Look in the Trac log for more information. SVN repository now created and synced. Looks good from here now. Best, Henrik From dwing@cisco.com Wed Dec 16 23:59:44 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 314EE3A6937 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 2009 23:59:44 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.755 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.755 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.356, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_73=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_83=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3wGsgt5yAd3D for ; Wed, 16 Dec 2009 23:59:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from sj-iport-5.cisco.com (sj-iport-5.cisco.com [171.68.10.87]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 599DA3A657C for ; Wed, 16 Dec 2009 23:59:43 -0800 (PST) Authentication-Results: sj-iport-5.cisco.com; dkim=neutral (message not signed) header.i=none X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AnUFAAt0KUurRN+K/2dsb2JhbACIX4EWtGGXE4QtBIkb X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.47,410,1257120000"; d="scan'208";a="121117424" Received: from sj-core-4.cisco.com ([171.68.223.138]) by sj-iport-5.cisco.com with ESMTP; 17 Dec 2009 07:59:29 +0000 Received: from dwingwxp01 ([10.32.240.196]) by sj-core-4.cisco.com (8.13.8/8.14.3) with ESMTP id nBH7xTor015680; Thu, 17 Dec 2009 07:59:29 GMT From: "Dan Wing" To: "'Julian Reschke'" , "'Thomas Narten'" References: <200912151456.nBFEuNKK000361@cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com> <4B27A46A.1070502@gmx.de> Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 23:59:29 -0800 Message-ID: <04cf01ca7eee$dc266360$c4f0200a@cisco.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: Acp9l1v4u4GfG8DXTxqAojhFPGS1FgBVfbkQ X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 In-Reply-To: <4B27A46A.1070502@gmx.de> Cc: 'Tools Team Discussion' Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] ID Submission tool not parsing abstractcorrectly X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 07:59:44 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org > [mailto:tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Julian Reschke > Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 7:00 AM > To: Thomas Narten > Cc: Tools Team Discussion > Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] ID Submission tool not parsing > abstractcorrectly > > Thomas Narten wrote: > > Not sure if this is for tools team or if I should just > > report this to > > ietf-action, but when submitting an ID today, I noticed that the > > submission tool was misparsing the abstract to include the status of > > the memo and other parts of the document as being "part of the > > abstract". > > > > Looking at some other recent ID announcements, this has > > been happening > > at least since November 23rd, but I'm not sure exactly how > > much before that. > > This may be because the Abstract now appears first on the page... (resending without attachment. Sorry if duplicates show up.) For whatever it's worth, I coded up two sed scripts a few years ago which extract the Abstract. I haven't had to change them to deal with the new location of the abstract. The two sed files are inside of ftp://ftpeng.cisco.com/dwing/abstract.zip To use them: sed -f abstract.sed DRAFTNAME | sed -f tighten.sed -d ----- Example: sed -f abstract.sed draft-narten-radir-problem-statement-04.txt | sed -f tighten.sed There has been much discussion over the last years about the overall scalability of the Internet routing system. This document attempts to describe what the actual problem is and the various demands being placed on the routing system that have made finding a straightforward solution difficult. Comments should be sent to rrg@psg.com or to radir@ietf.org. From henrik@levkowetz.com Thu Dec 17 04:49:39 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7C963A697A for ; Thu, 17 Dec 2009 04:49:39 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PHD9opVbRkVf for ; Thu, 17 Dec 2009 04:49:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from merlot.tools.ietf.org (merlot.tools.ietf.org [IPv6:2a01:3f0:0:31:214:22ff:fe21:bb]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6E983A6936 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 2009 04:49:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from brunello.autonomica.se ([2a01:3f0:1:0:21e:c2ff:fe13:7e3e]:59702 helo=dyn-fg117.sth.netnod.se) by merlot.tools.ietf.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NLFnF-0001UV-36; Thu, 17 Dec 2009 13:49:21 +0100 Message-ID: <4B2A28D0.2060800@levkowetz.com> Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 13:49:20 +0100 From: Henrik Levkowetz User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Macintosh/20090812) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Thomas Narten References: <200912151456.nBFEuNKK000361@cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com> In-Reply-To: <200912151456.nBFEuNKK000361@cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.96.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 2a01:3f0:1:0:21e:c2ff:fe13:7e3e X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: narten@us.ibm.com, tools-discuss@ietf.org, henrik-sent@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1 (built Sat, 01 Aug 2009 12:09:26 +0000) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on merlot.tools.ietf.org) Cc: Tools Team Discussion Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] ID Submission tool not parsing abstract correctly X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 12:49:39 -0000 Hi Thomas, On 2009-12-15 15:56 Thomas Narten said the following: > Not sure if this is for tools team or if I should just report this to > ietf-action, but when submitting an ID today, I noticed that the > submission tool was misparsing the abstract to include the status of > the memo and other parts of the document as being "part of the > abstract". > > Looking at some other recent ID announcements, this has been happening > at least since November 23rd, but I'm not sure exactly how much before > that. > > Who's job is this to deal with? The current submission tool is broken in many known ways. Bill Fenner has been working on a total rewrite, but stalled, and I've recently continued on the rewrite. I may be able to complete it within a couple of months, but I'm right now focusing on converting the IETF database content from the old fragmented schema to a new schema design which will let us move forward more easily. This has pre-empted the submission tool work; and it's possible it should be farmed out to once we get the IDIQ contracts in place. Henrik From henrik@levkowetz.com Thu Dec 17 05:04:04 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3DD33A69DC for ; Thu, 17 Dec 2009 05:04:04 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id awYfSV0BjezV for ; Thu, 17 Dec 2009 05:04:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from merlot.tools.ietf.org (merlot.tools.ietf.org [IPv6:2a01:3f0:0:31:214:22ff:fe21:bb]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E36003A6A8F for ; Thu, 17 Dec 2009 05:04:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from brunello.autonomica.se ([2a01:3f0:1:0:21e:c2ff:fe13:7e3e]:59728 helo=dyn-fg117.sth.netnod.se) by merlot.tools.ietf.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NLG1D-0007Py-UZ; Thu, 17 Dec 2009 14:03:48 +0100 Message-ID: <4B2A2C2B.7000004@levkowetz.com> Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 14:03:39 +0100 From: Henrik Levkowetz User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Macintosh/20090812) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Pekka Savola References: In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 0.96.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enigD4D83236343117A4E7FAC875" X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 2a01:3f0:1:0:21e:c2ff:fe13:7e3e X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: pekkas@netcore.fi, tools-discuss@ietf.org, henrik-sent@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1 (built Sat, 01 Aug 2009 12:09:26 +0000) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on merlot.tools.ietf.org) Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Updates to draft-xxx@tools.ietf.org aliases stalled? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 13:04:05 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enigD4D83236343117A4E7FAC875 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Pekka, On 2009-12-16 09:53 Pekka Savola said the following: > Hello, >=20 > Are draft-xxx@tools.ietf.org aliases supposed to be updated when a=20 > document is updated? Yes, with some reservations with respect to discarding old addresses, see further down. > If yes, there appears to be some problem here=20 > (I've experienced this a couple of times). >=20 > For example, when sending mail to=20 > draft-ietf-dkim-deployment@tools.ietf.org, I get an autoresponder from = > esiegel@constantcontact.com. That was the contact in -05 of the=20 > document published on June 3, 2009. In -06 it was "esiegel@????.com". = > In -07 through -09 it has been "dkim@esiegel.net". The alias file has the following entry for this draft. As you see, the defunct address is part of the alias, but all the current authors are also there: draft-ietf-dkim-deployment: dcrocker@bbiw.net, dkim@esiegel.net, esiege= l@constantcontact.com, pbaker@verisign.com, phillip@hallambaker.com, tony= +dkimov@maillennium.att.com (There has been a lot of inconsistency in the sources for the the author email addresses over time, and simply replacing old addresses with the most recent listed in for instance the database has repeatedly resulted in no addresses at all. For this reason the code which is maintaining the alias list is quite reluctant to abandon old known addresses...) > It appears the updates have stalled for some reason. (Hopefully the=20 > ????.com didn't mess this up?). Not sure if this is a generic problem = > or specific to some document(s). =20 As far as I can see this is not a generic problem -- the alias lists were= most recently updated 30 minutes ago, as I write. If you have examples where some authors are *not* getting the emails they should be getting (as opposed to the case above where the emails also go to an old defunct address) I'd be very interested in getting the specifics. Best, Henrik --------------enigD4D83236343117A4E7FAC875 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iEYEARECAAYFAksqLDMACgkQeVhrtTJkXCOX4gCg18Iui0exUm1VbwS+smWLzQC9 HbYAn3nidrb/uFfdTjaUlT8AutY3uwCD =tIvf -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enigD4D83236343117A4E7FAC875-- From pekkas@netcore.fi Thu Dec 17 05:08:59 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDD5728C0DF for ; Thu, 17 Dec 2009 05:08:59 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.493 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.493 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.106, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id x3BO3333zEpP for ; Thu, 17 Dec 2009 05:08:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from netcore.fi (eunet-gw.ipv6.netcore.fi [IPv6:2001:670:86:3001::1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B397428B56A for ; Thu, 17 Dec 2009 05:08:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from netcore.fi (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by netcore.fi (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id nBHD8aXo027387 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 17 Dec 2009 15:08:36 +0200 Received: from localhost (pekkas@localhost) by netcore.fi (8.13.8/8.13.8/Submit) with ESMTP id nBHD8ZCY027384; Thu, 17 Dec 2009 15:08:35 +0200 Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 15:08:35 +0200 (EET) From: Pekka Savola To: Henrik Levkowetz In-Reply-To: <4B2A2C2B.7000004@levkowetz.com> Message-ID: References: <4B2A2C2B.7000004@levkowetz.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (LRH 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.95.3 at otso.netcore.fi X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Updates to draft-xxx@tools.ietf.org aliases stalled? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 13:09:00 -0000 On Thu, 17 Dec 2009, Henrik Levkowetz wrote: > As far as I can see this is not a generic problem -- the alias lists were > most recently updated 30 minutes ago, as I write. If you have examples > where some authors are *not* getting the emails they should be getting > (as opposed to the case above where the emails also go to an old defunct > address) I'd be very interested in getting the specifics. Ok, I understand this better now. From the user's perspective this is inoptimal, as you get bounces from malfunctioning addresses, and if you don't know the implementation specifics, you can't know if the author really got the message or not. But I suppose the problem is not reliably fixable. Maybe old addresses could be removed after X iterations or Y months, but not sure if that would be easy to implement or much better. -- Pekka Savola "You each name yourselves king, yet the Netcore Oy kingdom bleeds." Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings From julian.reschke@gmx.de Thu Dec 17 05:20:34 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2A0E3A697D for ; Thu, 17 Dec 2009 05:20:33 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.282 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.282 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.683, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PGGraDJ3Eztu for ; Thu, 17 Dec 2009 05:20:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 9A0C53A685A for ; Thu, 17 Dec 2009 05:20:32 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 17 Dec 2009 13:20:14 -0000 Received: from p508FBEA4.dip.t-dialin.net (EHLO [192.168.178.33]) [80.143.190.164] by mail.gmx.net (mp013) with SMTP; 17 Dec 2009 14:20:14 +0100 X-Authenticated: #1915285 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1/4uedGxWn4PXWY9vyybYnOAbheuMewJq8/TYSM/p koWK8KCmglvvw2 Message-ID: <4B2A2FFF.5030909@gmx.de> Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 14:19:59 +0100 From: Julian Reschke User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; de; rv:1.8.0.4) Gecko/20060516 Thunderbird/1.5.0.4 Mnenhy/0.7.4.666 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Pekka Savola References: <4B2A2C2B.7000004@levkowetz.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-FuHaFi: 0.64 Cc: Henrik Levkowetz , tools-discuss@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Updates to draft-xxx@tools.ietf.org aliases stalled? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 13:20:34 -0000 Pekka Savola wrote: > On Thu, 17 Dec 2009, Henrik Levkowetz wrote: >> As far as I can see this is not a generic problem -- the alias lists were >> most recently updated 30 minutes ago, as I write. If you have examples >> where some authors are *not* getting the emails they should be getting >> (as opposed to the case above where the emails also go to an old defunct >> address) I'd be very interested in getting the specifics. > > Ok, I understand this better now. From the user's perspective this is > inoptimal, as you get bounces from malfunctioning addresses, and if you > don't know the implementation specifics, you can't know if the author > really got the message or not. > > But I suppose the problem is not reliably fixable. Maybe old addresses > could be removed after X iterations or Y months, but not sure if that > would be easy to implement or much better. For IDs which are submitted with XML source, extracting the email addresses could be made reliable, so there'd be no point in trying to get them from the TXT version, and keeping old ones... Best regards, Julian From henrik@levkowetz.com Thu Dec 17 05:57:22 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F1B63A6889 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 2009 05:57:22 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OXzdRcrdpAmm for ; Thu, 17 Dec 2009 05:57:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from merlot.tools.ietf.org (merlot.tools.ietf.org [IPv6:2a01:3f0:0:31:214:22ff:fe21:bb]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96ECF28C124 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 2009 05:57:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from brunello.autonomica.se ([2a01:3f0:1:0:21e:c2ff:fe13:7e3e]:59843 helo=dyn-fg117.sth.netnod.se) by merlot.tools.ietf.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NLGqn-00068I-QR; Thu, 17 Dec 2009 14:57:06 +0100 Message-ID: <4B2A38B0.3030202@levkowetz.com> Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 14:57:04 +0100 From: Henrik Levkowetz User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Macintosh/20090812) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Pekka Savola References: <4B2A2C2B.7000004@levkowetz.com> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 0.96.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enigFC8D86F6C200575F59C9E232" X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 2a01:3f0:1:0:21e:c2ff:fe13:7e3e X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: pekkas@netcore.fi, tools-discuss@ietf.org, henrik-sent@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1 (built Sat, 01 Aug 2009 12:09:26 +0000) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on merlot.tools.ietf.org) Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Updates to draft-xxx@tools.ietf.org aliases stalled? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 13:57:22 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enigFC8D86F6C200575F59C9E232 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Pekka, On 2009-12-17 14:08 Pekka Savola said the following: > On Thu, 17 Dec 2009, Henrik Levkowetz wrote: >> As far as I can see this is not a generic problem -- the alias lists w= ere >> most recently updated 30 minutes ago, as I write. If you have example= s >> where some authors are *not* getting the emails they should be getting= >> (as opposed to the case above where the emails also go to an old defun= ct >> address) I'd be very interested in getting the specifics. >=20 > Ok, I understand this better now. From the user's perspective this is = > inoptimal, as you get bounces from malfunctioning addresses, and if=20 > you don't know the implementation specifics, you can't know if the=20 > author really got the message or not. >=20 > But I suppose the problem is not reliably fixable. Maybe old=20 > addresses could be removed after X iterations or Y months, but not=20 > sure if that would be easy to implement or much better. I've revisited the code which merges old and new addresses, and managed to make some fixes which should result in better address lists, even give= n the preference for hanging on to old addresses if new are missing. When testing this on the particular example you had, the address list is much improved, and this should be reflected in the alias list the next time it= is regenerated. Best, Henrik --------------enigFC8D86F6C200575F59C9E232 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iEYEARECAAYFAksqOLEACgkQeVhrtTJkXCMcBQCbBHtpVWfDw/4veBiXlba/Pq8A etMAniMnZQmFwm6p4fxybDaWyIX5mMyw =A1r2 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enigFC8D86F6C200575F59C9E232-- From Jeff.Hodges@KingsMountain.com Thu Dec 17 12:23:43 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2D6E3A689B for ; Thu, 17 Dec 2009 12:23:43 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.225 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.225 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-5.374, BAYES_40=-0.185, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gN1x4Ibej4nI for ; Thu, 17 Dec 2009 12:23:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from outbound-mail-113.bluehost.com (outbound-mail-113.bluehost.com [69.89.24.3]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id C10903A6842 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 2009 12:23:42 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 28230 invoked by uid 0); 17 Dec 2009 20:23:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box514.bluehost.com) (74.220.219.114) by outboundproxy3.bluehost.com with SMTP; 17 Dec 2009 20:23:28 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=default; d=kingsmountain.com; h=Received:Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:Subject:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Identified-User; b=XISqVF33mUbgkckBr26RLY+EoDxrj1y1r7mDA0HW+/+Ttq6hm1kAuibEOji1OXgHMvzyxbCIpCms4tc09asN0nMbHPG+5cOkub5mGb+q1iFumXBdshqcZnIwWMMkCRLd; Received: from c-67-161-32-29.hsd1.ca.comcast.net ([67.161.32.29] helo=[192.168.11.10]) by box514.bluehost.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NLMsi-0007Yj-C2 for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Thu, 17 Dec 2009 13:23:28 -0700 Message-ID: <4B2A933F.6000607@KingsMountain.com> Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 12:23:27 -0800 From: =JeffH User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.14ubu (X11/20080306) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: IETF Tools List Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Identified-User: {11025:box514.bluehost.com:kingsmou:kingsmountain.com} {sentby:smtp auth 67.161.32.29 authed with jeff.hodges+kingsmountain.com} Subject: [Tools-discuss] who reads mail sent to mailman@ietf.org (just curious) X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 20:23:43 -0000 who reads mail sent to mailman@ietf.org (just curious) ? thanks, =JeffH From henrik@levkowetz.com Sun Dec 20 09:14:32 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6C483A68AA for ; Sun, 20 Dec 2009 09:14:32 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.67 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.67 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.930, BAYES_20=-0.74, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id epZDvTpGCEaH for ; Sun, 20 Dec 2009 09:14:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from shiraz.levkowetz.com (shiraz.levkowetz.com [77.72.230.31]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0BD13A681D for ; Sun, 20 Dec 2009 09:14:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56428 helo=chardonnay.local) by shiraz.levkowetz.com with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NMPLa-0000Tz-Md; Sun, 20 Dec 2009 18:13:35 +0100 Message-ID: <4B2E5B35.3000403@levkowetz.com> Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 18:13:25 +0100 From: Henrik Levkowetz User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Macintosh/20090812) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: RIchard Lee References: In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 0.96.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 127.0.0.1 X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: iceboundrock@msn.com, tools-discuss@ietf.org, henrik-sent@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on shiraz.levkowetz.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Rfcmarkup-1.85 feedback X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 17:14:33 -0000 Hi Richard, On 2009-12-20 10:55 RIchard Lee said the following: > Dear Henrik Levkowetz, >=20 > I found a bug in the Rfcmarkup 1.85 at line 1130. There is a regex: > "(?m)^(\s*)(\d+(\.\d+)*)(\.?[ ]+)(.*[^ .])( *\.? ?\.?)(.*[0-9])$" , I > suppose it should be =B3(?m)^(\s*)(\d+(\.\d+)*)(\.?[ ]+)(.*[^ .])( *\.?= > ?\.?)(.*[0-9])$=B2. Because some contents line do not contain =B3.=B2. = Such as > section 10.2.1.1 of rfc3261. Hmm. Right, that line in the table of content becomes troublesome. The problem is that there will be many more lines outside of the ToC which will match the regex if it is loosened to permit matches without sequence= s of '.'. The best solution would really be to make the regex treatment mo= re content sensitive, by recognizing areas such as document head, table of contents, body text, artwork (figures) etc., and have different treatment= depending on the area type. But for now, I'll leave this as-is -- the frequency of ToC lines which aren't treated correctly seem to be fairly low. Best, Henrik From brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com Sun Dec 20 12:06:45 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C30063A67EA for ; Sun, 20 Dec 2009 12:06:45 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.646 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.646 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.047, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NNYk05rvIf7P for ; Sun, 20 Dec 2009 12:06:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-yx0-f192.google.com (mail-yx0-f192.google.com [209.85.210.192]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ECAD73A6774 for ; Sun, 20 Dec 2009 12:06:44 -0800 (PST) Received: by yxe30 with SMTP id 30so5345273yxe.29 for ; Sun, 20 Dec 2009 12:06:26 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from :organization:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=ZNI0PiR/EhZy04gsVO4hnsMlcX0r2p8t7LurhQtVdSI=; b=SMAFYWhXWqeQnJR4FGD974gsIxfyRpdf9LBSEP7Bek25BRUCEQIuIrUFZWYjSteV0R Iph2uWULko0MNUcLQEIm/2NUihTjoaO8QlPGmQdttzEeFg6Qe51HaG7PfdwBD0YgT/8G 8iDhCJQHkuMvg/L6CXdIwTb0lhJBh3sEgt4Dk= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:organization:user-agent:mime-version:to :subject:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=NLj/1rBKi5UjqY05gVwxKxC0MvbmE8E3a116alC6rLfnJyXKnoTd3JQxAgiWB1hWJA I5TsVstpVqTFJxSC4+k0XeYn/1yEiejOCLaZBO09nrJ4N+MrmSgsdSS36zZO4JsjuYv4 UrwY6n+M2+hGh0B1zAhTe6ZrP2DYgGpprH1b4= Received: by 10.101.133.39 with SMTP id k39mr9783099ann.190.1261339585029; Sun, 20 Dec 2009 12:06:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?10.1.1.4? ([121.98.142.15]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 20sm4175767iwn.1.2009.12.20.12.06.23 (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Sun, 20 Dec 2009 12:06:24 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <4B2E83B8.2090604@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 09:06:16 +1300 From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: University of Auckland User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tools-discuss@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Tools-discuss] idnits nit X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 20:06:45 -0000 Hi, While running http://tools.ietf.org/tools/idnits/ on draft-bryan-metalink-24 for a Gen-ART review, I got this bogon: ** Downref: Normative reference to an Not Issued RFC: RFC 5646 Some database out of date? Brian From henrik@levkowetz.com Fri Dec 25 12:48:05 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A14D3A6900 for ; Fri, 25 Dec 2009 12:48:05 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QPGRfGjUiXB2 for ; Fri, 25 Dec 2009 12:48:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from merlot.tools.ietf.org (merlot.tools.ietf.org [IPv6:2a01:3f0:0:31:214:22ff:fe21:bb]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 645663A689A for ; Fri, 25 Dec 2009 12:48:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from c-5eea33ed-74736162.cust.telenor.se ([94.234.51.237]:40173 helo=chardonnay.local) by merlot.tools.ietf.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1NOH4Z-0005ju-90; Fri, 25 Dec 2009 21:47:44 +0100 Message-ID: <4B3524E7.7010801@levkowetz.com> Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2009 21:47:35 +0100 From: Henrik Levkowetz User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; en-US; rv:1.9.1.5) Gecko/20091204 Thunderbird/3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brian E Carpenter References: <4B2E83B8.2090604@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <4B2E83B8.2090604@gmail.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 94.234.51.237 X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com, tools-discuss@ietf.org, henrik-sent@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1 (built Sat, 01 Aug 2009 12:09:26 +0000) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on merlot.tools.ietf.org) Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] idnits nit X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2009 20:48:05 -0000 Hi Brian, On 2009-12-20 21:06 Brian E Carpenter said the following: > Hi, > > While running http://tools.ietf.org/tools/idnits/ on draft-bryan-metalink-24 > for a Gen-ART review, I got this bogon: > > ** Downref: Normative reference to an Not Issued RFC: RFC 5646 > > Some database out of date? Failed parsing of the rfcindex. Base problem fixed, and update running. Should be good again within a couple of hours. Thanks for reporting this :-) Best, Henrik From falk@bbn.com Wed Dec 30 13:27:51 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD43F3A6923 for ; Wed, 30 Dec 2009 13:27:51 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.700, BAYES_50=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SARE_SUB_RAND_LETTRS4=0.799] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id m8TNuU-wOP0k for ; Wed, 30 Dec 2009 13:27:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.bbn.com (smtp.bbn.com [128.33.1.81]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0833B3A691C for ; Wed, 30 Dec 2009 13:27:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from [128.89.254.203] (helo=nut.local) by smtp.bbn.com with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NQ64o-0003f1-9m; Wed, 30 Dec 2009 16:27:30 -0500 Message-ID: <4B3BC5C1.1010306@bbn.com> Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 16:27:29 -0500 From: Aaron Falk User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; en-US; rv:1.9.1.5) Gecko/20091204 Thunderbird/3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tools-discuss@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------010804020107080602030300" Cc: "Eddy, Wesley M. \(GRC-RCN0\)\[VZ\]" Subject: [Tools-discuss] IRTF trac error X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 21:27:51 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------010804020107080602030300 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit FYI. --aaron -------- Original Message -------- Subject: FW: [IRSG] IRSG review/poll for draft-irtf-iccrg-welzl-congestion-control-open-research Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 11:25:59 -0600 From: Eddy, Wesley M. (GRC-MS00)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP] To: Aaron Falk CC: michawe@ifi.uio.no Hi Aaron, we got an IRSG review from Stefano Previdi for the ICCRG's open-issues document, and it had a "ready to publish" vote (which I tried to enter into the tickets page this morning, but ran into Trac error messages after logging in: "DatabaseError: database disk image is malformed"). --------------010804020107080602030300 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit FYI.

--aaron

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: FW: [IRSG] IRSG review/poll for draft-irtf-iccrg-welzl-congestion-control-open-research
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 11:25:59 -0600
From: Eddy, Wesley M. (GRC-MS00)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP] <wesley.m.eddy@nasa.gov>
To: Aaron Falk <falk@bbn.com>
CC: michawe@ifi.uio.no <michawe@ifi.uio.no> 


Hi Aaron, we got an IRSG review from Stefano Previdi
for the ICCRG's open-issues document, and it had a
"ready to publish" vote (which I tried to enter into
the tickets page this morning, but ran into Trac error
messages after logging in:
"DatabaseError: database disk image is malformed").
--------------010804020107080602030300-- From henrik@levkowetz.com Wed Dec 30 16:22:20 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3BA43A68C6 for ; Wed, 30 Dec 2009 16:22:20 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.27 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.27 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.329, BAYES_20=-0.74, SARE_SUB_RAND_LETTRS4=0.799, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jZeZpgV7T68e for ; Wed, 30 Dec 2009 16:22:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from merlot.tools.ietf.org (merlot.tools.ietf.org [IPv6:2a01:3f0:0:31:214:22ff:fe21:bb]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E30423A687F for ; Wed, 30 Dec 2009 16:22:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from c-5eea3625-74736162.cust.telenor.se ([94.234.54.37]:40987 helo=chardonnay.local) by merlot.tools.ietf.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1NQ8na-000769-Co; Thu, 31 Dec 2009 01:21:55 +0100 Message-ID: <4B3BEE9A.7090005@levkowetz.com> Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 01:21:46 +0100 From: Henrik Levkowetz User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; en-US; rv:1.9.1.5) Gecko/20091204 Thunderbird/3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Aaron Falk References: <4B3BC5C1.1010306@bbn.com> In-Reply-To: <4B3BC5C1.1010306@bbn.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 94.234.54.37 X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: falk@bbn.com, tools-discuss@ietf.org, Wesley.M.Eddy@nasa.gov, henrik-sent@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1 (built Sat, 01 Aug 2009 12:09:26 +0000) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on merlot.tools.ietf.org) Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org, "Eddy, Wesley M. \(GRC-RCN0\)\[VZ\]" Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] IRTF trac error X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 00:22:21 -0000 Hi Aaron, On 2009-12-30 22:27 Aaron Falk said the following: > FYI. Hmm. The database file was very large, and with some operations gave the result 'database disk image is malformed'. I've dumped to cleartext, removed about 50 Meg of old session information, and loaded back into a new database file. Everything seems OK now, but if there is anything still amiss, please let me know. Best, Henrik > --aaron > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: FW: [IRSG] IRSG review/poll for > draft-irtf-iccrg-welzl-congestion-control-open-research > Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 11:25:59 -0600 > From: Eddy, Wesley M. (GRC-MS00)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP] > > To: Aaron Falk > CC: michawe@ifi.uio.no > > > > Hi Aaron, we got an IRSG review from Stefano Previdi > for the ICCRG's open-issues document, and it had a > "ready to publish" vote (which I tried to enter into > the tickets page this morning, but ran into Trac error > messages after logging in: > "DatabaseError: database disk image is malformed"). > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Tools-discuss mailing list > Tools-discuss@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From falk@bbn.com Thu Dec 31 11:39:18 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A83E93A6951 for ; Thu, 31 Dec 2009 11:39:18 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.633 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.633 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.167, BAYES_00=-2.599, SARE_SUB_RAND_LETTRS4=0.799] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ibhp2QAFI7pR for ; Thu, 31 Dec 2009 11:39:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.bbn.com (smtp.bbn.com [128.33.1.81]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D20C63A6A61 for ; Thu, 31 Dec 2009 11:39:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from [128.89.254.203] (helo=nut.local) by smtp.bbn.com with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NQQrH-0005aH-BE; Thu, 31 Dec 2009 14:38:55 -0500 Message-ID: <4B3CFDCF.5040403@bbn.com> Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 14:38:55 -0500 From: Aaron Falk User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; en-US; rv:1.9.1.5) Gecko/20091204 Thunderbird/3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Henrik Levkowetz References: <4B3BC5C1.1010306@bbn.com> <4B3BEE9A.7090005@levkowetz.com> In-Reply-To: <4B3BEE9A.7090005@levkowetz.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org, "Eddy, Wesley M. \(GRC-RCN0\)\[VZ\]" Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] IRTF trac error X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 19:39:19 -0000 Many thanks! --aaron On 12/30/09 7:21 PM, Henrik Levkowetz wrote: > Hi Aaron, > > On 2009-12-30 22:27 Aaron Falk said the following: > >> FYI. >> > Hmm. The database file was very large, and with some operations > gave the result 'database disk image is malformed'. I've dumped > to cleartext, removed about 50 Meg of old session information, > and loaded back into a new database file. Everything seems OK > now, but if there is anything still amiss, please let me know. > > Best, > > Henrik > > >> --aaron >> >> -------- Original Message -------- >> Subject: FW: [IRSG] IRSG review/poll for >> draft-irtf-iccrg-welzl-congestion-control-open-research >> Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 11:25:59 -0600 >> From: Eddy, Wesley M. (GRC-MS00)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP] >> >> To: Aaron Falk >> CC: michawe@ifi.uio.no >> >> >> >> Hi Aaron, we got an IRSG review from Stefano Previdi >> for the ICCRG's open-issues document, and it had a >> "ready to publish" vote (which I tried to enter into >> the tickets page this morning, but ran into Trac error >> messages after logging in: >> "DatabaseError: database disk image is malformed"). >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Tools-discuss mailing list >> Tools-discuss@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss >> >