From brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com Mon Feb 1 17:59:51 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 842D63A69B4 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 2010 17:59:51 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WJYiO4Qm2Cut for ; Mon, 1 Feb 2010 17:59:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pz0-f183.google.com (mail-pz0-f183.google.com [209.85.222.183]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 224C13A67B3 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 2010 17:59:50 -0800 (PST) Received: by pzk13 with SMTP id 13so965625pzk.32 for ; Mon, 01 Feb 2010 18:00:24 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from :organization:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=jAEmYRRrAoJLx7fKw1BWATbrKM5zxQfNRucL6rNgt/4=; b=dEVUxkSzBjLgDOyJoan/l/dC05xLIqby3D5BMMNxcK+3gG3q3tdBjjIkxv8ktEKZkA XIGZPxjGaekOXJgBJIjeDnkStQwTfj6MX6H9T46VY9ns0c/x9SvidlQZbzJpB1ssRXcG JViXHsFouJObBLB/GvRwIAQDRJDDnbbfW3kH8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:organization:user-agent:mime-version:to :subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=VL4cy6Q7lY08BFW6HPqwDV2KNmep82ZKEyKJoS/dbvaZ+2akpSF8lAVH9HcRghjZx9 y7MRh2hpfevX/NL7Mvq7ZeN60hvoXdebXQ8AsnR7VAB1Qo7PEiWw8YzVbqJhG/q9FUbO SuzkcRzs7Ig9Oxm2sfYdsKQih8Ly5Ln9eoqn4= Received: by 10.115.132.12 with SMTP id j12mr3475927wan.121.1265076023624; Mon, 01 Feb 2010 18:00:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?130.216.38.124? (stf-brian.sfac.auckland.ac.nz [130.216.38.124]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 22sm5077979pzk.2.2010.02.01.18.00.22 (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Mon, 01 Feb 2010 18:00:23 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <4B678734.30903@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 15:00:20 +1300 From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: University of Auckland User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tools-discuss@ietf.org References: <4ADFC75A.5040209@gmail.com> <808FD6E27AD4884E94820BC333B2DB773C09B0B0FE@NOK-EUMSG-01.mgdnok.nokia.com> <4CFEEAE415874CC2ACE4D95FCB5771EF@china.huawei.com> <4B1966D2.90005@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <4B1966D2.90005@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] draft-hixie-thewebsocketprotocol-100.txt X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 01:59:51 -0000 Version 73 has appeared. The current prediction for version 100 is still June 2010. Regards Brian Carpenter On 2009-12-05 08:45, Brian E Carpenter wrote: > The current rate for this draft is one version per 4.4 days, > so it looks like version 100 will appear around June 2010. > > Version 00 appeared in January 2009, so extrapolating from > then, we won't see version 100 until August 2010. But the > rate appears to be accelerating... > > Brian > >> -------- Original Message -------- >> Subject: I-D Action:draft-hixie-thewebsocketprotocol-60.txt >> Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2009 03:45:02 -0800 (PST) >> From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org >> Reply-To: internet-drafts@ietf.org >> To: i-d-announce@ietf.org >> >> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. >> >> Title : The Web Socket protocol >> Author(s) : I. Hickson >> Filename : draft-hixie-thewebsocketprotocol-60.txt >> Pages : 38 >> Date : 2009-12-04 > > > Regards > Brian Carpenter > > > > > On 2009-10-23 00:33, Spencer Dawkins wrote: >> I'm thinking that we should NOT fix the tools to accommodate three-digit >> draft numbers, because if this happens even once, there are things that >> are more broken than the tools... >> >> bernard pointed me to the excellent web page >> http://www.arkko.com/tools/lifecycle/extremes.html a couple of days ago. >> Words fail me. >> >> Spencer >> >>>> So, half way to the interesting case of someone trying to submit >>>> a -100.txt draft. How many tools will that break, I wonder? >>> It looks like the ID submission tool does check that revision >>> is <= 99. And the database field for this has type 'CHAR(2)' anyway :-) >>> >>> (However, I think there are places that would break if someone >>> managed to submit -99; so the check should be "<= 98"). >> > > From henrik@levkowetz.com Tue Feb 2 04:18:00 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 768583A693C for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2010 04:18:00 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id H7a8G0gNZ2dm for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2010 04:17:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from merlot.tools.ietf.org (merlot.tools.ietf.org [IPv6:2a01:3f0:0:31:214:22ff:fe21:bb]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DD983A68FA for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2010 04:17:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from brunello.autonomica.se ([2a01:3f0:1:0:21e:c2ff:fe13:7e3e]:65469 helo=dyn-fg117.sth.netnod.se) by merlot.tools.ietf.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1NcHi8-0006Et-JU; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 13:18:30 +0100 Message-ID: <4B681813.9080805@levkowetz.com> Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 13:18:27 +0100 From: Henrik Levkowetz User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; en-GB; rv:1.9.1.7) Gecko/20100111 Thunderbird/3.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brian E Carpenter References: <4B63B605.7030109@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <4B63B605.7030109@gmail.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 2a01:3f0:1:0:21e:c2ff:fe13:7e3e X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com, tools-discuss@ietf.org, henrik-sent@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1 (built Sat, 01 Aug 2009 12:09:26 +0000) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on merlot.tools.ietf.org) Cc: Tools Team Discussion Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] ID-nits contains an obsolete URL X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 12:18:00 -0000 Hi Brian, On 2010-01-30 05:31 Brian E Carpenter said the following: >> Checking nits according to http://www.ietf.org/ID-Checklist.html: >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Umm, this is 404. It seems to have moved to > http://www.ietf.org/id-info/checklist.html Well, "http://www.ietf.org/ID-Checklist.html:" (with the trailing colon) does indeed give a 404, but "http://www.ietf.org/ID-Checklist.html" (without the colon), which is the correct old URL for the checklist is correctly redirected to the new location you mention. I'll update idnits to use the new URL. > >> ** The document seems to lack an Introduction section. > > Well, I see that this *is* listed as a requirement. Does anyone > here know why? No, sorry. Henrik From brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com Tue Feb 2 12:31:08 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDF3428C0E7 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2010 12:31:08 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.266 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.266 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.667, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Wh+mkr+ZWxid for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2010 12:31:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-px0-f186.google.com (mail-px0-f186.google.com [209.85.216.186]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E984828B23E for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2010 12:31:07 -0800 (PST) Received: by pxi16 with SMTP id 16so466425pxi.29 for ; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 12:31:45 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from :organization:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=mRt+OKvBzD6rd2zI6VrUWtziBdGplfK2A99h0JDzGCc=; b=sx9a9zU9HmL37ZqJKPW5pdcEOyp59jWGfhZoTXH+K90hL9jaVaORXwT1j1CHgzIs13 u+aihvNuJ4T4hZQJ6cvwSBstaIeF/TcQ5Isbc3Cn4o+k/7VhY8buvQlecq14gzYcSjkl ApQhadxwzrh+hMMaOQRUcvXD2WQLL7vczzEUg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:organization:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc :subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=i2qKxXqcN/wpIrF2Bts5jpMNyGge4DNzwySNAq768U9mhXvafrCyV+478ps+7DH+53 Ub6B1Y4s3etH3+SDXYYoXr3/mygNE1WPlpfI2d/iBZdFRV+MJPVEeg7n5xlyqE6JfTq+ I57FnCST+Aujy3hIrNi40SskzylfbNkK1YL2o= Received: by 10.141.90.19 with SMTP id s19mr4517951rvl.66.1265142699690; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 12:31:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?130.216.38.124? (stf-brian.sfac.auckland.ac.nz [130.216.38.124]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 22sm5776359pzk.6.2010.02.02.12.31.38 (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Tue, 02 Feb 2010 12:31:39 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <4B688BA6.8000607@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 09:31:34 +1300 From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: University of Auckland User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Henrik Levkowetz References: <4B63B605.7030109@gmail.com> <4B681813.9080805@levkowetz.com> In-Reply-To: <4B681813.9080805@levkowetz.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Tools Team Discussion Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] ID-nits contains an obsolete URL X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 20:31:08 -0000 On 2010-02-03 01:18, Henrik Levkowetz wrote: > Hi Brian, > > On 2010-01-30 05:31 Brian E Carpenter said the following: >>> Checking nits according to http://www.ietf.org/ID-Checklist.html: >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Umm, this is 404. It seems to have moved to >> http://www.ietf.org/id-info/checklist.html > > > Well, "http://www.ietf.org/ID-Checklist.html:" (with the trailing colon) Duh > does indeed give a 404, but "http://www.ietf.org/ID-Checklist.html" (without > the colon), which is the correct old URL for the checklist is correctly > redirected to the new location you mention. > > I'll update idnits to use the new URL. Thanks Brian > >>> ** The document seems to lack an Introduction section. >> Well, I see that this *is* listed as a requirement. Does anyone >> here know why? > > No, sorry. > > > Henrik > From henrik@levkowetz.com Tue Feb 2 13:22:58 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CD3E3A6B81 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2010 13:22:58 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nVTRd7oVJxKK for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2010 13:22:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from merlot.tools.ietf.org (merlot.tools.ietf.org [IPv6:2a01:3f0:0:31:214:22ff:fe21:bb]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5B213A6996 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2010 13:22:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from h-85-245.a212.priv.bahnhof.se ([94.254.85.245]:55698) by merlot.tools.ietf.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1NcQDZ-00029p-PA; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 22:23:30 +0100 Message-ID: <4B6897D0.3060509@levkowetz.com> Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 22:23:28 +0100 From: Henrik Levkowetz User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; en-US; rv:1.9.1.7) Gecko/20100111 Thunderbird/3.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brian E Carpenter References: <4ADFC75A.5040209@gmail.com> <808FD6E27AD4884E94820BC333B2DB773C09B0B0FE@NOK-EUMSG-01.mgdnok.nokia.com> <4CFEEAE415874CC2ACE4D95FCB5771EF@china.huawei.com> <4B1966D2.90005@gmail.com> <4B678734.30903@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <4B678734.30903@gmail.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 94.254.85.245 X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com, tools-discuss@ietf.org, henrik-sent@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1 (built Sat, 01 Aug 2009 12:09:26 +0000) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on merlot.tools.ietf.org) Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] draft-hixie-thewebsocketprotocol-100.txt X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 21:22:58 -0000 Hi Brian, On 2010-02-02 03:00 Brian E Carpenter said the following: > Version 73 has appeared. The current prediction for version 100 > is still June 2010. Humm. The easy workaround once we hit -99 is to submit a replacement draft draft-hixie-thewebsocketprotocol-1-00.txt and carry on ... But this prompted something else: Curious as to what drives the draft to pass so swiftly through the revisions, I started to look at the side-by-side diffs, and soon got fed up with manually moving from one diff to another. Accordingly I added backwards and forwards links to the side-by-side diffs. The links are pretty simpleminded; they're added to the diff page whether the next and previous revisions are available or not; still, I hope they will be of some use: http://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-hixie-thewebsocketprotocol-73.txt Best, Henrik > Regards > Brian Carpenter > > On 2009-12-05 08:45, Brian E Carpenter wrote: >> The current rate for this draft is one version per 4.4 days, >> so it looks like version 100 will appear around June 2010. >> >> Version 00 appeared in January 2009, so extrapolating from >> then, we won't see version 100 until August 2010. But the >> rate appears to be accelerating... >> >> Brian >> >>> -------- Original Message -------- >>> Subject: I-D Action:draft-hixie-thewebsocketprotocol-60.txt >>> Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2009 03:45:02 -0800 (PST) >>> From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org >>> Reply-To: internet-drafts@ietf.org >>> To: i-d-announce@ietf.org >>> >>> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. >>> >>> Title : The Web Socket protocol >>> Author(s) : I. Hickson >>> Filename : draft-hixie-thewebsocketprotocol-60.txt >>> Pages : 38 >>> Date : 2009-12-04 >> >> >> Regards >> Brian Carpenter >> >> >> >> >> On 2009-10-23 00:33, Spencer Dawkins wrote: >>> I'm thinking that we should NOT fix the tools to accommodate three-digit >>> draft numbers, because if this happens even once, there are things that >>> are more broken than the tools... >>> >>> bernard pointed me to the excellent web page >>> http://www.arkko.com/tools/lifecycle/extremes.html a couple of days ago. >>> Words fail me. >>> >>> Spencer >>> >>>>> So, half way to the interesting case of someone trying to submit >>>>> a -100.txt draft. How many tools will that break, I wonder? >>>> It looks like the ID submission tool does check that revision >>>> is <= 99. And the database field for this has type 'CHAR(2)' anyway :-) >>>> >>>> (However, I think there are places that would break if someone >>>> managed to submit -99; so the check should be "<= 98"). >>> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Tools-discuss mailing list > Tools-discuss@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss > From spencer@wonderhamster.org Tue Feb 2 13:39:21 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90DF23A6985 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2010 13:39:21 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.58 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.58 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.018, BAYES_00=-2.599, STOX_REPLY_TYPE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id G2-92Yo+i6Ut for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2010 13:39:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [74.208.4.194]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC8DD3A6972 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2010 13:39:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from S73602b (w173.z064002096.dfw-tx.dsl.cnc.net [64.2.96.173]) by mrelay.perfora.net (node=mrus2) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0LmamR-1OCJ7a1EQ7-00aC8X; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 16:39:49 -0500 Message-ID: <6FCF27ADF1064B439FA0E7C351C006DA@china.huawei.com> From: "Spencer Dawkins" To: "Henrik Levkowetz" , "Brian E Carpenter" References: <4ADFC75A.5040209@gmail.com> <808FD6E27AD4884E94820BC333B2DB773C09B0B0FE@NOK-EUMSG-01.mgdnok.nokia.com> <4CFEEAE415874CC2ACE4D95FCB5771EF@china.huawei.com> <4B1966D2.90005@gmail.com><4B678734.30903@gmail.com> <4B6897D0.3060509@levkowetz.com> Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 15:39:32 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX18iwJcfUt4YdO6fenwLc9ZxYIqtCHBAGd6bKp7 t605KlP/7OBzmGxzjawn4blWhvwTZ7lsypd9p8Nanp56VCb2eL UoaawOsAvQsL0VH5Y98FavTA8bWb06eQA2YJvJBlgw= Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] draft-hixie-thewebsocketprotocol-100.txt X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 21:39:21 -0000 Hi, Henrik, Speaking as a Gen-ART reviewer, I find this addition very helpful - it's not uncommon for a draft to be revved multiple times between the IETF Last Call version (which Gen-ART looks at) and the version on an IESG telechat (which Gen-ART also looks at). It's trivial enough for us to do a diff that shows us what we need to see (the diff between -08 and -11), but what you've added is simple enough to use that it invites reviewers to look at intermediate changes as well - and that's often useful when we're trying to understand what the community has been talking about during the review cycle. Thanks, Spencer > Hi Brian, > > On 2010-02-02 03:00 Brian E Carpenter said the following: >> Version 73 has appeared. The current prediction for version 100 >> is still June 2010. > > Humm. > > The easy workaround once we hit -99 is to submit a replacement draft > draft-hixie-thewebsocketprotocol-1-00.txt and carry on ... > > But this prompted something else: > > Curious as to what drives the draft to pass so swiftly through the > revisions, I started to look at the side-by-side diffs, and soon got > fed up with manually moving from one diff to another. Accordingly > I added backwards and forwards links to the side-by-side diffs. The > links are pretty simpleminded; they're added to the diff page whether > the next and previous revisions are available or not; still, I hope > they will be of some use: > > > http://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-hixie-thewebsocketprotocol-73.txt > > Best, > > Henrik From tony@att.com Tue Feb 2 13:56:21 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D88328B23E for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2010 13:56:21 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -105.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-105.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.600, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id h026AvACnqyG for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2010 13:56:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail161.messagelabs.com (mail161.messagelabs.com [216.82.253.115]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D8103A65A6 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2010 13:56:20 -0800 (PST) X-VirusChecked: Checked X-Env-Sender: tony@att.com X-Msg-Ref: server-5.tower-161.messagelabs.com!1265147818!12786986!1 X-StarScan-Version: 6.2.4; banners=-,-,- X-Originating-IP: [144.160.20.146] Received: (qmail 27754 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2010 21:56:59 -0000 Received: from sbcsmtp7.sbc.com (HELO mlpd194.enaf.sfdc.sbc.com) (144.160.20.146) by server-5.tower-161.messagelabs.com with DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA encrypted SMTP; 2 Feb 2010 21:56:59 -0000 Received: from enaf.sfdc.sbc.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mlpd194.enaf.sfdc.sbc.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o12Lup4N026154 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2010 16:56:51 -0500 Received: from klpd017.kcdc.att.com (klpd017.kcdc.att.com [135.188.40.86]) by mlpd194.enaf.sfdc.sbc.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o12LulB5026109 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2010 16:56:47 -0500 Received: from kcdc.att.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by klpd017.kcdc.att.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o12LusM9020612 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2010 15:56:54 -0600 Received: from maillennium.att.com (mailgw1.maillennium.att.com [135.25.114.99]) by klpd017.kcdc.att.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o12Luo5p020565 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2010 15:56:50 -0600 Received: from [135.70.245.47] (vpn-135-70-245-47.vpn.east.att.com[135.70.245.47]) by maillennium.att.com (mailgw1) with ESMTP id <20100202215649gw100m6bohe> (Authid: tony); Tue, 2 Feb 2010 21:56:50 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [135.70.245.47] Message-ID: <4B689FA1.3060706@att.com> Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 16:56:49 -0500 From: Tony Hansen User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Windows/20090812) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Henrik Levkowetz References: <4ADFC75A.5040209@gmail.com> <808FD6E27AD4884E94820BC333B2DB773C09B0B0FE@NOK-EUMSG-01.mgdnok.nokia.com> <4CFEEAE415874CC2ACE4D95FCB5771EF@china.huawei.com> <4B1966D2.90005@gmail.com> <4B678734.30903@gmail.com> <4B6897D0.3060509@levkowetz.com> In-Reply-To: <4B6897D0.3060509@levkowetz.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] draft-hixie-thewebsocketprotocol-100.txt X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 21:56:21 -0000 nice addition! Henrik Levkowetz wrote: > Hi Brian, > > On 2010-02-02 03:00 Brian E Carpenter said the following: >> Version 73 has appeared. The current prediction for version 100 >> is still June 2010. > > Humm. > > The easy workaround once we hit -99 is to submit a replacement draft > draft-hixie-thewebsocketprotocol-1-00.txt and carry on ... > > But this prompted something else: > > Curious as to what drives the draft to pass so swiftly through the > revisions, I started to look at the side-by-side diffs, and soon got > fed up with manually moving from one diff to another. Accordingly > I added backwards and forwards links to the side-by-side diffs. The > links are pretty simpleminded; they're added to the diff page whether > the next and previous revisions are available or not; still, I hope > they will be of some use: > > http://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-hixie-thewebsocketprotocol-73.txt > > Best, > > Henrik > >> Regards >> Brian Carpenter >> >> On 2009-12-05 08:45, Brian E Carpenter wrote: >>> The current rate for this draft is one version per 4.4 days, >>> so it looks like version 100 will appear around June 2010. >>> >>> Version 00 appeared in January 2009, so extrapolating from >>> then, we won't see version 100 until August 2010. But the >>> rate appears to be accelerating... >>> >>> Brian >>> >>>> -------- Original Message -------- >>>> Subject: I-D Action:draft-hixie-thewebsocketprotocol-60.txt >>>> Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2009 03:45:02 -0800 (PST) >>>> From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org >>>> Reply-To: internet-drafts@ietf.org >>>> To: i-d-announce@ietf.org >>>> >>>> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. >>>> >>>> Title : The Web Socket protocol >>>> Author(s) : I. Hickson >>>> Filename : draft-hixie-thewebsocketprotocol-60.txt >>>> Pages : 38 >>>> Date : 2009-12-04 >>> >>> Regards >>> Brian Carpenter >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 2009-10-23 00:33, Spencer Dawkins wrote: >>>> I'm thinking that we should NOT fix the tools to accommodate three-digit >>>> draft numbers, because if this happens even once, there are things that >>>> are more broken than the tools... >>>> >>>> bernard pointed me to the excellent web page >>>> http://www.arkko.com/tools/lifecycle/extremes.html a couple of days ago. >>>> Words fail me. >>>> >>>> Spencer >>>> >>>>>> So, half way to the interesting case of someone trying to submit >>>>>> a -100.txt draft. How many tools will that break, I wonder? >>>>> It looks like the ID submission tool does check that revision >>>>> is <= 99. And the database field for this has type 'CHAR(2)' anyway :-) >>>>> >>>>> (However, I think there are places that would break if someone >>>>> managed to submit -99; so the check should be "<= 98"). >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Tools-discuss mailing list >> Tools-discuss@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss >> > _______________________________________________ > Tools-discuss mailing list > Tools-discuss@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From julian.reschke@gmx.de Tue Feb 2 14:34:03 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0497D3A68B6 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2010 14:34:03 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.04 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.04 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.441, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id v0OxsuURQFLh for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2010 14:34:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id B8BFE3A6B2E for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2010 14:34:01 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 02 Feb 2010 22:34:39 -0000 Received: from p508FC2DE.dip.t-dialin.net (EHLO [192.168.178.33]) [80.143.194.222] by mail.gmx.net (mp067) with SMTP; 02 Feb 2010 23:34:39 +0100 X-Authenticated: #1915285 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1/DDQYCqo3DmdJSqMtnBp89jjAcwkW0J23+orjck4 w1DEyEwpHepyvN Message-ID: <4B68A875.8060209@gmx.de> Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 23:34:29 +0100 From: Julian Reschke User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; de; rv:1.8.0.4) Gecko/20060516 Thunderbird/1.5.0.4 Mnenhy/0.7.4.666 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Henrik Levkowetz References: <4ADFC75A.5040209@gmail.com> <808FD6E27AD4884E94820BC333B2DB773C09B0B0FE@NOK-EUMSG-01.mgdnok.nokia.com> <4CFEEAE415874CC2ACE4D95FCB5771EF@china.huawei.com> <4B1966D2.90005@gmail.com> <4B678734.30903@gmail.com> <4B6897D0.3060509@levkowetz.com> In-Reply-To: <4B6897D0.3060509@levkowetz.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-FuHaFi: 0.72999999999999998 Cc: Brian E Carpenter , tools-discuss@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] draft-hixie-thewebsocketprotocol-100.txt X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 22:34:03 -0000 Henrik Levkowetz wrote: > Humm. > > The easy workaround once we hit -99 is to submit a replacement draft > draft-hixie-thewebsocketprotocol-1-00.txt and carry on ... > > But this prompted something else: > > Curious as to what drives the draft to pass so swiftly through the > revisions, I started to look at the side-by-side diffs, and soon got > ... The author submits *every single change* as Internet Draft. Best regards, Julian From sm@resistor.net Tue Feb 2 14:54:30 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60FE63A68B2 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2010 14:54:30 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.451 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.451 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.148, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VbCFZlcllPm3 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2010 14:54:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns1.qubic.net (ns1.qubic.net [208.69.177.116]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 967643A6861 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2010 14:54:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from SUBMAN.resistor.net ([10.0.0.1]) (authenticated bits=0) by ns1.qubic.net (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id o12MV2JO027097 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 2 Feb 2010 14:31:09 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=resistor.net; s=mail; t=1265149871; x=1265236271; bh=npuWU4n4aS7CjUrKSlXGRZA//llKtKSwQP03gmcTWrw=; h=Message-Id:Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References: Mime-Version:Content-Type; b=DQ8U0gE5WS59WQ9penqJEg9KwGKQ/rO3yMY5O1rY+YRCWCBMxTd6/+zL4omCx8nAG MDpVgbBzAMDB81/AehEpv5BX4vpVBZ+uq38dy/hHR2OBrdllat7NRciDmrtrYCw6Ye eEHkdNrOYDvgcg8fOzvIu1UVs8ROztSbWZ3T4S3s= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; s=mail; d=resistor.net; c=simple; q=dns; b=PPf0aVKt00AhI3lajTX5+qUArl7/2ckleLE+ajlAUbhVf7GW7L+qAF4onTGkLrl0L 1ijX2cKNwu7O6Iwc86Op+gZJpt7RsYixsKjChwci7rZ3ynGvQ660uO97nREkk4gcsYF cz2smwdNO9PVNUV3O124TPKVsN1huZpt91E2d5E= Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20100202140722.08042298@resistor.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 14:28:19 -0800 To: Henrik Levkowetz From: SM In-Reply-To: <4B6897D0.3060509@levkowetz.com> References: <4ADFC75A.5040209@gmail.com> <808FD6E27AD4884E94820BC333B2DB773C09B0B0FE@NOK-EUMSG-01.mgdnok.nokia.com> <4CFEEAE415874CC2ACE4D95FCB5771EF@china.huawei.com> <4B1966D2.90005@gmail.com> <4B678734.30903@gmail.com> <4B6897D0.3060509@levkowetz.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] draft-hixie-thewebsocketprotocol-100.txt X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 22:54:30 -0000 Hi Henrik, At 13:23 02-02-10, Henrik Levkowetz wrote: >But this prompted something else: > >Curious as to what drives the draft to pass so swiftly through the >revisions, I started to look at the side-by-side diffs, and soon got The author of that I-D has a commit script that uploads any changes to the draft to tools.ietf.org. Regards, -sm From touch@ISI.EDU Tue Feb 2 15:04:57 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA6003A6878 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2010 15:04:57 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rVcEEt41WCDI for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2010 15:04:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from nitro.isi.edu (nitro.isi.edu [128.9.208.207]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17D543A6B91 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2010 15:04:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from [128.9.184.223] ([128.9.184.223]) (authenticated bits=0) by nitro.isi.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id o12N3rgD005073 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Tue, 2 Feb 2010 15:03:54 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <4B68AF59.6070403@isi.edu> Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 15:03:53 -0800 From: Joe Touch User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Windows/20090812) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SM References: <4ADFC75A.5040209@gmail.com> <808FD6E27AD4884E94820BC333B2DB773C09B0B0FE@NOK-EUMSG-01.mgdnok.nokia.com> <4CFEEAE415874CC2ACE4D95FCB5771EF@china.huawei.com> <4B1966D2.90005@gmail.com> <4B678734.30903@gmail.com> <4B6897D0.3060509@levkowetz.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20100202140722.08042298@resistor.net> In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20100202140722.08042298@resistor.net> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.96.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enig9C6C528C4A41786BFB85E6B4" X-MailScanner-ID: o12N3rgD005073 X-ISI-4-69-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-From: touch@isi.edu Cc: Henrik Levkowetz , tools-discuss@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] draft-hixie-thewebsocketprotocol-100.txt X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 23:04:58 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enig9C6C528C4A41786BFB85E6B4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable SM wrote: > Hi Henrik, > At 13:23 02-02-10, Henrik Levkowetz wrote: >> But this prompted something else: >> >> Curious as to what drives the draft to pass so swiftly through the >> revisions, I started to look at the side-by-side diffs, and soon got >=20 > The author of that I-D has a commit script that uploads any changes to > the draft to tools.ietf.org. It might be useful to ask him to have the script upload commits only periodically (once a month?) or when explicitly asked, rather than for every commit. Joe --------------enig9C6C528C4A41786BFB85E6B4 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (MingW32) iEYEARECAAYFAktor1kACgkQE5f5cImnZrvzjQCfZD9NjHeHNr2QS7HUUMR69p28 BvgAn2ldW/WlGY2JDQHZPbnEYN6NpmZ5 =qlA1 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enig9C6C528C4A41786BFB85E6B4-- From julian.reschke@gmx.de Tue Feb 2 15:18:24 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10D313A6878 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2010 15:18:24 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.92 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.92 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.321, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BIZZ2QfWZ7QL for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2010 15:18:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id C4BBA28C133 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2010 15:18:22 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 02 Feb 2010 23:18:59 -0000 Received: from p508FC2DE.dip.t-dialin.net (EHLO [192.168.178.33]) [80.143.194.222] by mail.gmx.net (mp006) with SMTP; 03 Feb 2010 00:18:59 +0100 X-Authenticated: #1915285 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX19AQHwKXlZAtPDG4zI+Ebv/Ns8gBoNi0IAVgmws0j 9v6bEsvgBLT9kP Message-ID: <4B68B2D4.6030407@gmx.de> Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 00:18:44 +0100 From: Julian Reschke User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; de; rv:1.8.0.4) Gecko/20060516 Thunderbird/1.5.0.4 Mnenhy/0.7.4.666 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Joe Touch References: <4ADFC75A.5040209@gmail.com> <808FD6E27AD4884E94820BC333B2DB773C09B0B0FE@NOK-EUMSG-01.mgdnok.nokia.com> <4CFEEAE415874CC2ACE4D95FCB5771EF@china.huawei.com> <4B1966D2.90005@gmail.com> <4B678734.30903@gmail.com> <4B6897D0.3060509@levkowetz.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20100202140722.08042298@resistor.net> <4B68AF59.6070403@isi.edu> In-Reply-To: <4B68AF59.6070403@isi.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-FuHaFi: 0.68000000000000005 Cc: Henrik Levkowetz , tools-discuss@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] draft-hixie-thewebsocketprotocol-100.txt X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 23:18:24 -0000 Joe Touch wrote: > SM wrote: >> Hi Henrik, >> At 13:23 02-02-10, Henrik Levkowetz wrote: >>> But this prompted something else: >>> >>> Curious as to what drives the draft to pass so swiftly through the >>> revisions, I started to look at the side-by-side diffs, and soon got >> The author of that I-D has a commit script that uploads any changes to >> the draft to tools.ietf.org. > > It might be useful to ask him to have the script upload commits only > periodically (once a month?) or when explicitly asked, rather than for > every commit. Been there, done that. Try yourself. Good luck with that. From sm@resistor.net Tue Feb 2 17:35:07 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 922DE3A68DA for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2010 17:35:07 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.462 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.462 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.137, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sbQIjHuBeKd2 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2010 17:35:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns1.qubic.net (ns1.qubic.net [208.69.177.116]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDDFE3A68AF for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2010 17:35:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from SUBMAN.resistor.net ([10.0.0.1]) (authenticated bits=0) by ns1.qubic.net (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id o131ZavW019597 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 2 Feb 2010 17:35:42 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=resistor.net; s=mail; t=1265160945; x=1265247345; bh=BBJbCUALyjGNQueZlBPL5SHuefMfCRdTK4ajqbL2edo=; h=Message-Id:Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References: Mime-Version:Content-Type; b=e0oCHLS/0GiVdIgoIR7dsMHV9jELWOhetjydMzEwtSF7oXd4rNWIk5CqjxfDu/KV8 fn0hyMz+fRFpofdQwYSx2Cj8I0q8JNA9cnOlXpt7mmq3qbNUX3ozlZamFKWD9aWseS sBSXos5pXGFBfBIHk2XQ19bPOtE79afuNetE3Yok= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; s=mail; d=resistor.net; c=simple; q=dns; b=mGV/2ZidV3DyIE1rtVYvfA4HCbZLPsmCdvqmb+p9NzpJKr++2MUHBXk3DSP6ybPK/ IniKaW1p+Ef7HWNL6FaPkAJYUQIRQWl60w4eA84S9SvKu6FbdQAx+J6EHWobnyozsUz o9JXXBC32L42yARJlHB0hb/WyloyFE2adPKtVmE= Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20100202154841.07baeb88@resistor.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 17:35:16 -0800 To: Joe Touch From: SM In-Reply-To: <4B68AF59.6070403@isi.edu> References: <4ADFC75A.5040209@gmail.com> <808FD6E27AD4884E94820BC333B2DB773C09B0B0FE@NOK-EUMSG-01.mgdnok.nokia.com> <4CFEEAE415874CC2ACE4D95FCB5771EF@china.huawei.com> <4B1966D2.90005@gmail.com> <4B678734.30903@gmail.com> <4B6897D0.3060509@levkowetz.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20100202140722.08042298@resistor.net> <4B68AF59.6070403@isi.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] draft-hixie-thewebsocketprotocol-100.txt X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 01:35:07 -0000 Hi Joe, At 15:03 02-02-10, Joe Touch wrote: >It might be useful to ask him to have the script upload commits only >periodically (once a month?) or when explicitly asked, rather than for >every commit. Several persons on the mailing list pointed out that it was not a good idea to submit a new version of the I-D every few days. That was before the commit script was mentioned. The author replied that he was just following a "release early release often" policy. Regards, -sm From spencer@wonderhamster.org Tue Feb 2 21:17:02 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97E023A6829 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2010 21:16:59 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.469 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.469 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.130, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EiGHmvsIO+KX for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2010 21:16:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [74.208.4.195]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 950263A680A for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2010 21:16:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from S73602b (cpe-76-182-230-135.tx.res.rr.com [76.182.230.135]) by mrelay.perfora.net (node=mrus2) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0M3AGF-1NviON0AZb-00sxTf; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 00:17:15 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Spencer Dawkins" To: "Joe Touch" , "SM" References: <4ADFC75A.5040209@gmail.com><808FD6E27AD4884E94820BC333B2DB773C09B0B0FE@NOK-EUMSG-01.mgdnok.nokia.com><4CFEEAE415874CC2ACE4D95FCB5771EF@china.huawei.com><4B1966D2.90005@gmail.com> <4B678734.30903@gmail.com><4B6897D0.3060509@levkowetz.com><6.2.5.6.2.20100202140722.08042298@resistor.net><4B68AF59.6070403@isi.edu> <6.2.5.6.2.20100202154841.07baeb88@resistor.net> Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 23:16:59 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1+w5iM0GNYCVeUuthH1vKp0uuwmQk4fOWvkHqc mMPZyrFvqT3hswcdRRXVgexZ3qO8ikQ7ryoqs0SuEEeIaZ53uH SjWF8XBlYEBA+bgEN+KoT2nk7Gv8rZ6LIV1QNDXHWc= Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] draft-hixie-thewebsocketprotocol-100.txt X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 05:17:02 -0000 I do feel sorry for the ADs who might be trying to watch this, and I wish it wasn't a distraction for Henrik, but for the rest of us... Without trying to be TOO snotty, it is helpful to have authors self-identify as people whose draft revisions you can safely ignore, because you're sure that another revision will come along in, oh, let's say 4 days :D "release early release often" is brilliant when you have an automated test procedure catching the output. If it's just humans downstream, I'd say "semi-brilliant". Spencer >>It might be useful to ask him to have the script upload commits only >>periodically (once a month?) or when explicitly asked, rather than for >>every commit. > > Several persons on the mailing list pointed out that it was not a good > idea to submit a new version of the I-D every few days. That was before > the commit script was mentioned. The author replied that he was just > following a "release early release often" policy. From klensin@jck.com Mon Feb 1 21:42:02 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1557B28C226 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 2010 21:42:02 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.672 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.672 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.073, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xa+6oFYgAEJa for ; Mon, 1 Feb 2010 21:42:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from bs.jck.com (ns.jck.com [209.187.148.211]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B73F28C21B for ; Mon, 1 Feb 2010 21:42:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=localhost) by bs.jck.com with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1NcBX2-0004cz-OR; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 00:42:36 -0500 Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 00:42:36 -0500 From: John C Klensin To: tools-discuss@ietf.org Message-ID: <7061ECB770B6C18ED9E4B1F6@PST.JCK.COM> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.8 (Win32) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 05:38:15 -0800 Subject: [Tools-discuss] Question about I-D version numbers X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 05:42:02 -0000 Out of curiosity, what is going to happen when the version number in an I-D reaches -99 and then a new version shows up? As far as I know, we have never discussed or dealt with the issue. But Ian Hickson seems to have a pattern of posting three to five versions of draft-hixie-thewebsocketprotocol in bursts within a 24 - 36 hour period. He is up to -74 now and a very rough extrapolation from the sequence of new drafts over the last several months suggests that he will be in the 90s before the winter is over, possibly even before IETF 77. Not my problem, but I thought you might like the heads up :-( john From henrik@levkowetz.com Thu Feb 4 06:10:49 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9317B3A6DC2 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 2010 06:10:48 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iBv6LuUSl0lp for ; Thu, 4 Feb 2010 06:10:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from merlot.tools.ietf.org (merlot.tools.ietf.org [IPv6:2a01:3f0:0:31:214:22ff:fe21:bb]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4A0F3A6DBB for ; Thu, 4 Feb 2010 06:10:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from brunello.autonomica.se ([2a01:3f0:1:0:21e:c2ff:fe13:7e3e]:54681 helo=dyn-fg117.sth.netnod.se) by merlot.tools.ietf.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Nd2QY-0008OD-V6; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 15:11:27 +0100 Message-ID: <4B6AD58E.8080608@levkowetz.com> Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 15:11:26 +0100 From: Henrik Levkowetz User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; en-GB; rv:1.9.1.7) Gecko/20100111 Thunderbird/3.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: John C Klensin References: <7061ECB770B6C18ED9E4B1F6@PST.JCK.COM> In-Reply-To: <7061ECB770B6C18ED9E4B1F6@PST.JCK.COM> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.0.1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 2a01:3f0:1:0:21e:c2ff:fe13:7e3e X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: klensin@jck.com, tools-discuss@ietf.org, henrik-sent@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1 (built Sat, 01 Aug 2009 12:09:26 +0000) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on merlot.tools.ietf.org) Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Question about I-D version numbers X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 14:10:49 -0000 Hi John, On 2010-02-02 06:42 John C Klensin said the following: > Out of curiosity, what is going to happen when the version > number in an I-D reaches -99 and then a new version shows up? > As far as I know, we have never discussed or dealt with the > issue. But Ian Hickson seems to have a pattern of posting > three to five versions of draft-hixie-thewebsocketprotocol in > bursts within a 24 - 36 hour period. He is up to -74 now and a > very rough extrapolation from the sequence of new drafts over > the last several months suggests that he will be in the 90s > before the winter is over, possibly even before IETF 77. > > Not my problem, but I thought you might like the heads up :-( I've checked the current submission tool code, and it should refuse drafts numbered higher than -99. My suggestion is to submit a replacement draft at that point. Maybe something like draft-hixie-thewebsocketprotocol-98 draft-hixie-thewebsocketprotocol-99 draft-hixie-thewebsocketprotocol-1-00 (replacing draft-hixie-thewebsocketprotocol) draft-hixie-thewebsocketprotocol-1-01 etc. Henrik From klensin@jck.com Thu Feb 4 08:52:58 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D06BB28B797 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 2010 08:52:58 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.664 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.664 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.065, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sMFi9BtxPXst for ; Thu, 4 Feb 2010 08:52:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from bs.jck.com (ns.jck.com [209.187.148.211]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0C9A3A6AFB for ; Thu, 4 Feb 2010 08:52:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=localhost) by bs.jck.com with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1Nd4xb-000Fr2-Na; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 11:53:43 -0500 Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 11:53:43 -0500 From: John C Klensin To: Henrik Levkowetz Message-ID: <371944FA8B66AAD1080E50C9@PST.JCK.COM> In-Reply-To: <4B6AD58E.8080608@levkowetz.com> References: <7061ECB770B6C18ED9E4B1F6@PST.JCK.COM> <4B6AD58E.8080608@levkowetz.com> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.8 (Win32) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Question about I-D version numbers X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 16:52:58 -0000 --On Thursday, February 04, 2010 15:11 +0100 Henrik Levkowetz wrote: > Hi John, > > On 2010-02-02 06:42 John C Klensin said the following: >> Out of curiosity, what is going to happen when the version >> number in an I-D reaches -99 and then a new version shows up? >> As far as I know, we have never discussed or dealt with the >> issue. But Ian Hickson seems to have a pattern of posting >> three to five versions of draft-hixie-thewebsocketprotocol in >> bursts within a 24 - 36 hour period. He is up to -74 now and >> a very rough extrapolation from the sequence of new drafts >> over the last several months suggests that he will be in the >> 90s before the winter is over, possibly even before IETF 77. >> >> Not my problem, but I thought you might like the heads up :-( > > I've checked the current submission tool code, and it should > refuse drafts numbered higher than -99. As long as it does that cleanly, there should be no problem. > My suggestion is to > submit a replacement draft at that point. Maybe something like > > draft-hixie-thewebsocketprotocol-98 > draft-hixie-thewebsocketprotocol-99 > draft-hixie-thewebsocketprotocol-1-00 > (replacing draft-hixie-thewebsocketprotocol) > draft-hixie-thewebsocketprotocol-1-01 > > etc. Sounds good. I'll pass it along. thanks, john From tony@att.com Thu Feb 4 10:27:16 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3E613A6DC0 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 2010 10:27:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.229 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.229 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.370, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EcppxnrpZnBX for ; Thu, 4 Feb 2010 10:27:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail121.messagelabs.com (mail121.messagelabs.com [216.82.242.3]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B31F3A6C8F for ; Thu, 4 Feb 2010 10:27:15 -0800 (PST) X-VirusChecked: Checked X-Env-Sender: tony@att.com X-Msg-Ref: server-3.tower-121.messagelabs.com!1265308081!36479917!1 X-StarScan-Version: 6.2.4; banners=-,-,- X-Originating-IP: [144.160.20.146] Received: (qmail 10421 invoked from network); 4 Feb 2010 18:28:01 -0000 Received: from sbcsmtp7.sbc.com (HELO mlpd194.enaf.sfdc.sbc.com) (144.160.20.146) by server-3.tower-121.messagelabs.com with DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA encrypted SMTP; 4 Feb 2010 18:28:01 -0000 Received: from enaf.sfdc.sbc.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mlpd194.enaf.sfdc.sbc.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o14IRs2C002024 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 2010 13:27:54 -0500 Received: from klpd017.kcdc.att.com (klpd017.kcdc.att.com [135.188.40.86]) by mlpd194.enaf.sfdc.sbc.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o14IRnqd001947 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 2010 13:27:49 -0500 Received: from kcdc.att.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by klpd017.kcdc.att.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o14IRt9L021874 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 2010 12:27:55 -0600 Received: from maillennium.att.com (mailgw1.maillennium.att.com [135.25.114.99]) by klpd017.kcdc.att.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o14IRn2Q021731 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 2010 12:27:49 -0600 Received: from [135.91.110.95] (dn135-91-110-95.dhcpn.ugn.att.com[135.91.110.95]) by maillennium.att.com (mailgw1) with ESMTP id <20100204182748gw100m6b4ae> (Authid: tony); Thu, 4 Feb 2010 18:27:48 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [135.91.110.95] Message-ID: <4B6B11A4.8030505@att.com> Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 13:27:48 -0500 From: Tony Hansen User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Windows/20090812) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tools-discuss@ietf.org References: <7061ECB770B6C18ED9E4B1F6@PST.JCK.COM> <4B6AD58E.8080608@levkowetz.com> <371944FA8B66AAD1080E50C9@PST.JCK.COM> In-Reply-To: <371944FA8B66AAD1080E50C9@PST.JCK.COM> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Question about I-D version numbers X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 18:27:16 -0000 It would be useful if the various databases were able to easily and/or automatically track the renaming of -99 to -1-00, so that tools.ietf.org's rfcdiff would continue working, the "<"/">" feature in tools.ietf.org/html pages continued to work, etc. Tony Hansen John C Klensin wrote: > > --On Thursday, February 04, 2010 15:11 +0100 Henrik Levkowetz > wrote: > >> Hi John, >> >> On 2010-02-02 06:42 John C Klensin said the following: >>> Out of curiosity, what is going to happen when the version >>> number in an I-D reaches -99 and then a new version shows up? >>> As far as I know, we have never discussed or dealt with the >>> issue. But Ian Hickson seems to have a pattern of posting >>> three to five versions of draft-hixie-thewebsocketprotocol in >>> bursts within a 24 - 36 hour period. He is up to -74 now and >>> a very rough extrapolation from the sequence of new drafts >>> over the last several months suggests that he will be in the >>> 90s before the winter is over, possibly even before IETF 77. >>> >>> Not my problem, but I thought you might like the heads up :-( >> I've checked the current submission tool code, and it should >> refuse drafts numbered higher than -99. > > As long as it does that cleanly, there should be no problem. > >> My suggestion is to >> submit a replacement draft at that point. Maybe something like >> >> draft-hixie-thewebsocketprotocol-98 >> draft-hixie-thewebsocketprotocol-99 >> draft-hixie-thewebsocketprotocol-1-00 >> (replacing draft-hixie-thewebsocketprotocol) >> draft-hixie-thewebsocketprotocol-1-01 >> >> etc. > > Sounds good. I'll pass it along. > thanks, > john > > _______________________________________________ > Tools-discuss mailing list > Tools-discuss@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From touch@ISI.EDU Thu Feb 4 10:37:20 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43AF728C0E9 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 2010 10:37:20 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Iuyhzo8Z4XSh for ; Thu, 4 Feb 2010 10:37:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from vapor.isi.edu (vapor.isi.edu [128.9.64.64]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7618D3A6DEF for ; Thu, 4 Feb 2010 10:37:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from [75.214.242.122] (122.sub-75-214-242.myvzw.com [75.214.242.122]) (authenticated bits=0) by vapor.isi.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id o14IZfV6029817 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Thu, 4 Feb 2010 10:35:43 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <4B6B137C.3050208@isi.edu> Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 10:35:40 -0800 From: Joe Touch User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Windows/20090812) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Tony Hansen References: <7061ECB770B6C18ED9E4B1F6@PST.JCK.COM> <4B6AD58E.8080608@levkowetz.com> <371944FA8B66AAD1080E50C9@PST.JCK.COM> <4B6B11A4.8030505@att.com> In-Reply-To: <4B6B11A4.8030505@att.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.96.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enig7E39550618E32D415C7B7D45" X-ISI-4-43-8-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-From: touch@isi.edu Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Question about I-D version numbers X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 18:37:20 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enig7E39550618E32D415C7B7D45 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Tony Hansen wrote: > It would be useful if the various databases were able to easily and/or > automatically track the renaming of -99 to -1-00, so that > tools.ietf.org's rfcdiff would continue working, the "<"/">" feature in= > tools.ietf.org/html pages continued to work, etc. If they did, wouldn't it be easier to just have them support -100? However, I would suggest that any doc that gets to that high number is doing something badly broken somewhere, and a fresh version starting at -00 is a good idea anyway. 100 revisions is the kind of past history best deleted. Joe >=20 > Tony Hansen >=20 > John C Klensin wrote: >> >> --On Thursday, February 04, 2010 15:11 +0100 Henrik Levkowetz >> wrote: >> >>> Hi John, >>> >>> On 2010-02-02 06:42 John C Klensin said the following: >>>> Out of curiosity, what is going to happen when the version >>>> number in an I-D reaches -99 and then a new version shows up? >>>> As far as I know, we have never discussed or dealt with the >>>> issue. But Ian Hickson seems to have a pattern of posting >>>> three to five versions of draft-hixie-thewebsocketprotocol in >>>> bursts within a 24 - 36 hour period. He is up to -74 now and >>>> a very rough extrapolation from the sequence of new drafts >>>> over the last several months suggests that he will be in the >>>> 90s before the winter is over, possibly even before IETF 77. >>>> >>>> Not my problem, but I thought you might like the heads up :-( >>> I've checked the current submission tool code, and it should >>> refuse drafts numbered higher than -99. >> >> As long as it does that cleanly, there should be no problem. >> >>> My suggestion is to >>> submit a replacement draft at that point. Maybe something like >>> >>> draft-hixie-thewebsocketprotocol-98 >>> draft-hixie-thewebsocketprotocol-99 >>> draft-hixie-thewebsocketprotocol-1-00 (replacing >>> draft-hixie-thewebsocketprotocol) >>> draft-hixie-thewebsocketprotocol-1-01 >>> >>> etc. >> >> Sounds good. I'll pass it along. >> thanks, >> john >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Tools-discuss mailing list >> Tools-discuss@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss > _______________________________________________ > Tools-discuss mailing list > Tools-discuss@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss --------------enig7E39550618E32D415C7B7D45 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (MingW32) iEYEARECAAYFAktrE3wACgkQE5f5cImnZruL0QCeIbi23wCO0ldnVUQmMmHHkueU /lsAoImMEXRnzgIVmw4Q4v3nBoPt9TZp =aYJL -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enig7E39550618E32D415C7B7D45-- From mnot@mnot.net Fri Feb 5 04:39:57 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9B153A6D78 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 2010 04:39:57 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.078 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.078 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.479, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ALAxC97DQ77Z for ; Fri, 5 Feb 2010 04:39:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from mxout-07.mxes.net (mxout-07.mxes.net [216.86.168.182]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3C5E3A6911 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 2010 04:39:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from chancetrain-lm.mnot.net (unknown [118.209.26.233]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.mxes.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 51B2122E247; Fri, 5 Feb 2010 07:40:38 -0500 (EST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1077) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Mark Nottingham In-Reply-To: <4B6AD58E.8080608@levkowetz.com> Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 23:40:35 +1100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: References: <7061ECB770B6C18ED9E4B1F6@PST.JCK.COM> <4B6AD58E.8080608@levkowetz.com> To: Henrik Levkowetz X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1077) Cc: John C Klensin , tools-discuss@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Question about I-D version numbers X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 12:39:57 -0000 Have we suggested this to Ian? :) On 05/02/2010, at 1:11 AM, Henrik Levkowetz wrote: > Hi John, > > On 2010-02-02 06:42 John C Klensin said the following: >> Out of curiosity, what is going to happen when the version >> number in an I-D reaches -99 and then a new version shows up? >> As far as I know, we have never discussed or dealt with the >> issue. But Ian Hickson seems to have a pattern of posting >> three to five versions of draft-hixie-thewebsocketprotocol in >> bursts within a 24 - 36 hour period. He is up to -74 now and a >> very rough extrapolation from the sequence of new drafts over >> the last several months suggests that he will be in the 90s >> before the winter is over, possibly even before IETF 77. >> >> Not my problem, but I thought you might like the heads up :-( > > I've checked the current submission tool code, and it should refuse > drafts numbered higher than -99. My suggestion is to submit a > replacement draft at that point. Maybe something like > > draft-hixie-thewebsocketprotocol-98 > draft-hixie-thewebsocketprotocol-99 > draft-hixie-thewebsocketprotocol-1-00 > (replacing draft-hixie-thewebsocketprotocol) > draft-hixie-thewebsocketprotocol-1-01 > > etc. > > > Henrik > _______________________________________________ > Tools-discuss mailing list > Tools-discuss@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss -- Mark Nottingham http://www.mnot.net/ From klensin@jck.com Fri Feb 5 05:27:22 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D9C128C101 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 2010 05:27:22 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.662 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.662 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.063, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AZjOmmbALhGW for ; Fri, 5 Feb 2010 05:27:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from bs.jck.com (ns.jck.com [209.187.148.211]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 122F23A6F00 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 2010 05:27:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=localhost) by bs.jck.com with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1NdOEC-000H4H-K1; Fri, 05 Feb 2010 08:28:08 -0500 Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 08:28:07 -0500 From: John C Klensin To: Mark Nottingham , Henrik Levkowetz Message-ID: <4C8046ACF1F388482432BB29@PST.JCK.COM> In-Reply-To: References: <7061ECB770B6C18ED9E4B1F6@PST.JCK.COM> <4B6AD58E.8080608@levkowetz.com> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.8 (Win32) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Question about I-D version numbers X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 13:27:22 -0000 --On Friday, February 05, 2010 23:40 +1100 Mark Nottingham wrote: > Have we suggested this to Ian? > > :) Mark, While I'm concerned about running past the two-digit limit, Ian isn't going to run out in the next month or two. To me, the important part of Henrik's message is that the tools are not going to fail at -99 or accept -100. Better to know that now than to risk a crisis later. I think Henrik's suggestion of "new name" is the right one. However, if I understand what Ian is doing, this won't be the last time, and a standardized convention will probably serve us well in the long term and avoid needing to complexify arrangements for links to previously-named versions. Advice about such a convention is an IETF problem, and, yes, I've pinged the Apps ADs on this. Unless Ian is likely to generate 25 more versions in the next month or two (he hasn't been nearly that fast), there is lots of time for the IESG to either decide something or decide that every author who runs into the issue should make up his or her own convention. john From henrik@levkowetz.com Fri Feb 5 12:55:22 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 421C93A6CEC for ; Fri, 5 Feb 2010 12:55:22 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7uJtGVGoN70y for ; Fri, 5 Feb 2010 12:55:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from merlot.tools.ietf.org (merlot.tools.ietf.org [IPv6:2a01:3f0:0:31:214:22ff:fe21:bb]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5112E3A68C6 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 2010 12:55:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from h-85-245.a212.priv.bahnhof.se ([94.254.85.245]:50830) by merlot.tools.ietf.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1NdVDj-0006V3-4D; Fri, 05 Feb 2010 21:56:07 +0100 Message-ID: <4B6C85E6.2060208@levkowetz.com> Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 21:56:06 +0100 From: Henrik Levkowetz User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; en-US; rv:1.9.1.7) Gecko/20100111 Thunderbird/3.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Tony Hansen References: <7061ECB770B6C18ED9E4B1F6@PST.JCK.COM> <4B6AD58E.8080608@levkowetz.com> <371944FA8B66AAD1080E50C9@PST.JCK.COM> <4B6B11A4.8030505@att.com> In-Reply-To: <4B6B11A4.8030505@att.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 94.254.85.245 X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: tony@att.com, tools-discuss@ietf.org, henrik-sent@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1 (built Sat, 01 Aug 2009 12:09:26 +0000) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on merlot.tools.ietf.org) Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Question about I-D version numbers X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 20:55:22 -0000 Hi Tony, On 2010-02-04 19:27 Tony Hansen said the following: > It would be useful if the various databases were able to easily and/or > automatically track the renaming of -99 to -1-00, so that > tools.ietf.org's rfcdiff would continue working, the "<"/">" feature in > tools.ietf.org/html pages continued to work, etc. I'm already complementing the submission-time labelling (by the submitter) of drafts as replacements with a heuristic generation of replacement information -- similar to the one Lars Eggert regularly posts to the wgchairs list. It would be trivial to recognize this new pattern and add the relevant 'replaces/replaced-by' information. The diffs already works backwards across replacement draft boundaries (although I know of one rfcdiff bug related to this which I'll fix soon.). The same kind of information should also, as you suggest, be built into the tools surrounding the datatracker database. Henrik > Tony Hansen > > John C Klensin wrote: >> >> --On Thursday, February 04, 2010 15:11 +0100 Henrik Levkowetz >> wrote: >> >>> Hi John, >>> >>> On 2010-02-02 06:42 John C Klensin said the following: >>>> Out of curiosity, what is going to happen when the version >>>> number in an I-D reaches -99 and then a new version shows up? >>>> As far as I know, we have never discussed or dealt with the >>>> issue. But Ian Hickson seems to have a pattern of posting >>>> three to five versions of draft-hixie-thewebsocketprotocol in >>>> bursts within a 24 - 36 hour period. He is up to -74 now and >>>> a very rough extrapolation from the sequence of new drafts >>>> over the last several months suggests that he will be in the >>>> 90s before the winter is over, possibly even before IETF 77. >>>> >>>> Not my problem, but I thought you might like the heads up :-( >>> I've checked the current submission tool code, and it should >>> refuse drafts numbered higher than -99. >> >> As long as it does that cleanly, there should be no problem. >> >>> My suggestion is to >>> submit a replacement draft at that point. Maybe something like >>> >>> draft-hixie-thewebsocketprotocol-98 >>> draft-hixie-thewebsocketprotocol-99 >>> draft-hixie-thewebsocketprotocol-1-00 >>> (replacing draft-hixie-thewebsocketprotocol) >>> draft-hixie-thewebsocketprotocol-1-01 >>> >>> etc. >> >> Sounds good. I'll pass it along. >> thanks, >> john >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Tools-discuss mailing list >> Tools-discuss@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss > _______________________________________________ > Tools-discuss mailing list > Tools-discuss@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss > From Pasi.Eronen@nokia.com Mon Feb 8 03:40:08 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF9E83A69B6 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 2010 03:40:08 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.321 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.321 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.278, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id an86CrMu0k4O for ; Mon, 8 Feb 2010 03:40:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from mgw-mx09.nokia.com (smtp.nokia.com [192.100.105.134]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86DD03A6D48 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 2010 03:40:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from esebh105.NOE.Nokia.com (esebh105.ntc.nokia.com [172.21.138.211]) by mgw-mx09.nokia.com (Switch-3.3.3/Switch-3.3.3) with ESMTP id o18BelCb017352; Mon, 8 Feb 2010 05:41:08 -0600 Received: from esebh102.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.21.138.183]) by esebh105.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Mon, 8 Feb 2010 13:40:57 +0200 Received: from smtp.mgd.nokia.com ([65.54.30.7]) by esebh102.NOE.Nokia.com over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Mon, 8 Feb 2010 13:40:57 +0200 Received: from NOK-EUMSG-01.mgdnok.nokia.com ([65.54.30.86]) by nok-am1mhub-03.mgdnok.nokia.com ([65.54.30.7]) with mapi; Mon, 8 Feb 2010 12:40:56 +0100 From: To: Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 12:40:55 +0100 Thread-Topic: [Tools-discuss] Datatracker improvements for testing Thread-Index: AcqiBHsDvbVvpyWKRQWo8/EJAgyNXQGrX0NQ Message-ID: <808FD6E27AD4884E94820BC333B2DB77584149340D@NOK-EUMSG-01.mgdnok.nokia.com> References: <808FD6E27AD4884E94820BC333B2DB77584119A04D@NOK-EUMSG-01.mgdnok.nokia.com> <2D4D86DB-4D6D-4088-99F4-95D026B75F69@mnot.net> In-Reply-To: <2D4D86DB-4D6D-4088-99F4-95D026B75F69@mnot.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Feb 2010 11:40:57.0577 (UTC) FILETIME=[94657590:01CAA8B3] X-Nokia-AV: Clean Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Datatracker improvements for testing X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 11:40:08 -0000 Thanks for your comments! I don't think we can get down to one view any time soon, but yes, the=20 plan is to replace several current URLs with redirects. This includes=20 at least these URLs on datatracker: http://datatracker.ietf.org/drafts/draft-ietf-pce-pcep/ http://datatracker.ietf.org/drafts/draft-ietf-pce-pcep/related/ http://datatracker.ietf.org/idtracker/draft-ietf-pce-pcep/ http://datatracker.ietf.org/idtracker/ballot/2762/ (IESG only) https://datatracker.ietf.org/cgi-bin/idtracker.cgi?command=3Dvi= ew_id&dTag=3D14049 (IESG only) https://datatracker.ietf.org/cgi-bin/idtracker.cgi?command=3Dop= en_ballot&id_document_tag=3D14049 On www.ietf.org, I think we don't have anything except the plain text (e.g. http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-6lowpan-hc-06.txt); that will stay as-is. Tools.ietf.org is a separate system, and I think Henrik wants to continue maintaining it separately for the time being: http://tools.ietf.org/wg/pce/draft-ietf-pce-pcep/ http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pce-pcep-19 Best regards, Pasi > -----Original Message----- > From: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:tools-discuss- > bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of ext Mark Nottingham > Sent: 31 January, 2010 01:32 > To: Eronen Pasi (Nokia-NRC/Helsinki) > Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Datatracker improvements for testing >=20 > These look fantastic. >=20 > My only feedback is that once these are deemed "live" (now?), the > various other I-D URLs hosted on tools, datatracker and ietf.org should > 301 redirect to them, so there's ONE view of this information, not > (seemingly, sometimes) fifteen. >=20 > Cheers, >=20 >=20 > On 27/01/2010, at 6:17 AM, > wrote: >=20 > > Hi everyone, > > > > I'd like to invite everyone on the tools-discuss list to test the > > upcoming datatracker improvements that Russ referred to recently: > > > > http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ietf- > announce/current/msg06907.html > > > > Two starting points: > > > > o The new search page (try searching for "nsis" for a good overview > > of new features): > > http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/ > > > > This page will eventually replace at least three separate search > > interfaces in the current datatracker: /idtracker/, /drafts/, and > > the IESG tracker search page. > > > > o New per-draft page: > > http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-csi-sndp-prob/ > > > > Here the goal is again to simplify the system, and replace at > > least three separate per-draft pages (one under /idtracker/, > > another under /drafts/, and third in the IESG tracker) with one > > page that shows all the information previously found on those > > separate pages (and has "edit" buttons if you're logged in > > as area director). > > > > As Russ noted, this code is developed by volunteers, so please send > > bug reports, enhancement ideas, and other comments to this list, not > > the IETF secretariat. > > > > (Note that if you have used this interface earlier, it might be > > necessary to click "Reload" to clear old data from the cache.) > > > > Best regards, > > Pasi > > _______________________________________________ > > Tools-discuss mailing list > > Tools-discuss@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss >=20 >=20 > -- > Mark Nottingham http://www.mnot.net/ >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Tools-discuss mailing list > Tools-discuss@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From mnot@mnot.net Mon Feb 8 04:17:48 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7883C3A71AE for ; Mon, 8 Feb 2010 04:17:48 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.328 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.328 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-2.125, BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YEhXMl5gGj+d for ; Mon, 8 Feb 2010 04:17:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from mxout-07.mxes.net (mxout-07.mxes.net [216.86.168.182]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C8E53A7038 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 2010 04:17:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from chancetrain-lm.mnot.net (unknown [118.209.26.233]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.mxes.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 359CA22E247; Mon, 8 Feb 2010 07:18:41 -0500 (EST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1077) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Mark Nottingham In-Reply-To: <808FD6E27AD4884E94820BC333B2DB77584149340D@NOK-EUMSG-01.mgdnok.nokia.com> Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 23:18:38 +1100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <5520939E-5896-4A75-80D5-0A7C8828B65B@mnot.net> References: <808FD6E27AD4884E94820BC333B2DB77584119A04D@NOK-EUMSG-01.mgdnok.nokia.com> <2D4D86DB-4D6D-4088-99F4-95D026B75F69@mnot.net> <808FD6E27AD4884E94820BC333B2DB77584149340D@NOK-EUMSG-01.mgdnok.nokia.com> To: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1077) Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Datatracker improvements for testing X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 12:17:48 -0000 OK. Would it be possible to also have http://datatracker.ietf.org/id/... redirect to it? That way, if I'm on a www.ietf.org-hosted draft, I only = need to replace 'www' with 'datatracker'... Cheers,=20 On 08/02/2010, at 10:40 PM, = wrote: > Thanks for your comments! >=20 > I don't think we can get down to one view any time soon, but yes, the=20= > plan is to replace several current URLs with redirects. This includes=20= > at least these URLs on datatracker: >=20 > http://datatracker.ietf.org/drafts/draft-ietf-pce-pcep/ > http://datatracker.ietf.org/drafts/draft-ietf-pce-pcep/related/ > http://datatracker.ietf.org/idtracker/draft-ietf-pce-pcep/ > http://datatracker.ietf.org/idtracker/ballot/2762/ > (IESG only) = https://datatracker.ietf.org/cgi-bin/idtracker.cgi?command=3Dview_id&dTag=3D= 14049 > (IESG only) = https://datatracker.ietf.org/cgi-bin/idtracker.cgi?command=3Dopen_ballot&i= d_document_tag=3D14049 >=20 > On www.ietf.org, I think we don't have anything except the plain text > (e.g. http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-6lowpan-hc-06.txt); that will > stay as-is. >=20 > Tools.ietf.org is a separate system, and I think Henrik wants to > continue maintaining it separately for the time being: >=20 > http://tools.ietf.org/wg/pce/draft-ietf-pce-pcep/ > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pce-pcep-19 >=20 > Best regards, > Pasi >=20 >> -----Original Message----- >> From: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:tools-discuss- >> bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of ext Mark Nottingham >> Sent: 31 January, 2010 01:32 >> To: Eronen Pasi (Nokia-NRC/Helsinki) >> Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Datatracker improvements for testing >>=20 >> These look fantastic. >>=20 >> My only feedback is that once these are deemed "live" (now?), the >> various other I-D URLs hosted on tools, datatracker and ietf.org = should >> 301 redirect to them, so there's ONE view of this information, not >> (seemingly, sometimes) fifteen. >>=20 >> Cheers, >>=20 >>=20 >> On 27/01/2010, at 6:17 AM, >> wrote: >>=20 >>> Hi everyone, >>>=20 >>> I'd like to invite everyone on the tools-discuss list to test the >>> upcoming datatracker improvements that Russ referred to recently: >>>=20 >>> http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ietf- >> announce/current/msg06907.html >>>=20 >>> Two starting points: >>>=20 >>> o The new search page (try searching for "nsis" for a good overview >>> of new features): >>> http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/ >>>=20 >>> This page will eventually replace at least three separate search >>> interfaces in the current datatracker: /idtracker/, /drafts/, and >>> the IESG tracker search page. >>>=20 >>> o New per-draft page: >>> http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-csi-sndp-prob/ >>>=20 >>> Here the goal is again to simplify the system, and replace at >>> least three separate per-draft pages (one under /idtracker/, >>> another under /drafts/, and third in the IESG tracker) with one >>> page that shows all the information previously found on those >>> separate pages (and has "edit" buttons if you're logged in >>> as area director). >>>=20 >>> As Russ noted, this code is developed by volunteers, so please send >>> bug reports, enhancement ideas, and other comments to this list, not >>> the IETF secretariat. >>>=20 >>> (Note that if you have used this interface earlier, it might be >>> necessary to click "Reload" to clear old data from the cache.) >>>=20 >>> Best regards, >>> Pasi >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Tools-discuss mailing list >>> Tools-discuss@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss >>=20 >>=20 >> -- >> Mark Nottingham http://www.mnot.net/ >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> Tools-discuss mailing list >> Tools-discuss@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss >=20 -- Mark Nottingham http://www.mnot.net/ From spencer@wonderhamster.org Mon Feb 8 05:21:02 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B48083A7317 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 2010 05:21:02 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.583 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.583 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.015, BAYES_00=-2.599, STOX_REPLY_TYPE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZYKnLPU55Ejp for ; Mon, 8 Feb 2010 05:21:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [74.208.4.194]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3D8D3A71E7 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 2010 05:21:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from S73602b (w173.z064002096.dfw-tx.dsl.cnc.net [64.2.96.173]) by mrelay.perfora.net (node=mrus0) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0Lhgtt-1O0w8F1ZsP-00mms5; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 08:22:03 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Spencer Dawkins" To: "Mark Nottingham" , References: <808FD6E27AD4884E94820BC333B2DB77584119A04D@NOK-EUMSG-01.mgdnok.nokia.com><2D4D86DB-4D6D-4088-99F4-95D026B75F69@mnot.net><808FD6E27AD4884E94820BC333B2DB77584149340D@NOK-EUMSG-01.mgdnok.nokia.com> <5520939E-5896-4A75-80D5-0A7C8828B65B@mnot.net> Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 07:21:53 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX192pfbr9TqjMQQ50iYCxTg8bte3fFGAsL4Qz/N Mn42TYqhtrZu1MrcJCeU9m66aDW3i1QvW8ENcPLJXinnlLWfZ0 N/22ULdDQjLFLMASX8Ap+lUIunrub2t8JoYlNBpgbM= Cc: IETF TOOLS discussion Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Datatracker improvements for testing X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 13:21:02 -0000 I don't want to put words in Mark's mouth, so he might not agree with this, but I agree with my understanding of Mark's comment, which is, "gee, no matter where *I* go, I want to have pretty much the same capabilities as I have using the tools system". As a Gen-ART reviewer, I usually want to know all kinds of things about a draft that I'm reviewing - IESG evaluation record, shepherd writeup (usually, but not automatically, cut-and-pasted into the ID tracker), e-mail addresses to contact everyone who needs to see the review - we had that conversation last week - links to previous versions and to diffs from previous versions... I'm really spoiled by the tools capability - so much so that when I click on a URL that brings up bare ASCII text with no links, and that I can't even get to the previous version(s) by editing the version number in the URL, because that version has expired, I just sigh. So ... having as many links as possible redirect, would be awesome :D Thanks, Spencer > OK. Would it be possible to also have > > http://datatracker.ietf.org/id/... > > redirect to it? That way, if I'm on a www.ietf.org-hosted draft, I only > need to replace 'www' with 'datatracker'... > > Cheers, > > > On 08/02/2010, at 10:40 PM, > wrote: > >> Thanks for your comments! >> >> I don't think we can get down to one view any time soon, but yes, the >> plan is to replace several current URLs with redirects. This includes >> at least these URLs on datatracker: >> >> http://datatracker.ietf.org/drafts/draft-ietf-pce-pcep/ >> http://datatracker.ietf.org/drafts/draft-ietf-pce-pcep/related/ >> http://datatracker.ietf.org/idtracker/draft-ietf-pce-pcep/ >> http://datatracker.ietf.org/idtracker/ballot/2762/ >> (IESG only) >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/cgi-bin/idtracker.cgi?command=view_id&dTag=14049 >> (IESG only) >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/cgi-bin/idtracker.cgi?command=open_ballot&id_document_tag=14049 >> >> On www.ietf.org, I think we don't have anything except the plain text >> (e.g. http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-6lowpan-hc-06.txt); that will >> stay as-is. >> >> Tools.ietf.org is a separate system, and I think Henrik wants to >> continue maintaining it separately for the time being: >> >> http://tools.ietf.org/wg/pce/draft-ietf-pce-pcep/ >> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pce-pcep-19 >> >> Best regards, >> Pasi >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:tools-discuss- >>> bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of ext Mark Nottingham >>> Sent: 31 January, 2010 01:32 >>> To: Eronen Pasi (Nokia-NRC/Helsinki) >>> Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org >>> Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Datatracker improvements for testing >>> >>> These look fantastic. >>> >>> My only feedback is that once these are deemed "live" (now?), the >>> various other I-D URLs hosted on tools, datatracker and ietf.org should >>> 301 redirect to them, so there's ONE view of this information, not >>> (seemingly, sometimes) fifteen. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> >>> On 27/01/2010, at 6:17 AM, >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi everyone, >>>> >>>> I'd like to invite everyone on the tools-discuss list to test the >>>> upcoming datatracker improvements that Russ referred to recently: >>>> >>>> http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ietf- >>> announce/current/msg06907.html >>>> >>>> Two starting points: >>>> >>>> o The new search page (try searching for "nsis" for a good overview >>>> of new features): >>>> http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/ >>>> >>>> This page will eventually replace at least three separate search >>>> interfaces in the current datatracker: /idtracker/, /drafts/, and >>>> the IESG tracker search page. >>>> >>>> o New per-draft page: >>>> http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-csi-sndp-prob/ >>>> >>>> Here the goal is again to simplify the system, and replace at >>>> least three separate per-draft pages (one under /idtracker/, >>>> another under /drafts/, and third in the IESG tracker) with one >>>> page that shows all the information previously found on those >>>> separate pages (and has "edit" buttons if you're logged in >>>> as area director). >>>> >>>> As Russ noted, this code is developed by volunteers, so please send >>>> bug reports, enhancement ideas, and other comments to this list, not >>>> the IETF secretariat. >>>> >>>> (Note that if you have used this interface earlier, it might be >>>> necessary to click "Reload" to clear old data from the cache.) >>>> >>>> Best regards, >>>> Pasi From mnot@mnot.net Tue Feb 9 04:37:16 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81DCA3A74E4 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 2010 04:37:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.344 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.344 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-2.141, BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zXGMpKoQUTbS for ; Tue, 9 Feb 2010 04:37:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from mxout-08.mxes.net (mxout-08.mxes.net [216.86.168.183]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A3DF3A71BD for ; Tue, 9 Feb 2010 04:37:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from chancetrain-lm.mnot.net (unknown [118.209.89.188]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.mxes.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 88D8B509B4; Tue, 9 Feb 2010 07:38:13 -0500 (EST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1077) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Mark Nottingham X-Priority: 3 In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 23:38:10 +1100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <808FD6E27AD4884E94820BC333B2DB77584119A04D@NOK-EUMSG-01.mgdnok.nokia.com><2D4D86DB-4D6D-4088-99F4-95D026B75F69@mnot.net><808FD6E27AD4884E94820BC333B2DB77584149340D@NOK-EUMSG-01.mgdnok.nokia.com> <5520939E-5896-4A75-80D5-0A7C8828B65B@mnot.net> To: Spencer Dawkins X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1077) Cc: pasi.Eronen@nokia.com, IETF TOOLS discussion Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Datatracker improvements for testing X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 12:37:16 -0000 Agreed. One other thing - it would be wonderful if the print CSS for the page = would remove the navigation elements, and place page breaks = appropriately. I know that the CSS for page breaks isn't terribly = well-supported, but it would be nice to try... (I can help with the CSS if needed) Cheers, On 09/02/2010, at 12:21 AM, Spencer Dawkins wrote: > I don't want to put words in Mark's mouth, so he might not agree with = this, > but I agree with my understanding of Mark's comment, which is, >=20 > "gee, no matter where *I* go, I want to have pretty much the same > capabilities as I have using the tools system". >=20 > As a Gen-ART reviewer, I usually want to know all kinds of things = about a > draft that I'm reviewing - IESG evaluation record, shepherd writeup > (usually, but not automatically, cut-and-pasted into the ID tracker), = e-mail > addresses to contact everyone who needs to see the review - we had = that > conversation last week - links to previous versions and to diffs from > previous versions... >=20 > I'm really spoiled by the tools capability - so much so that when I = click on > a URL that brings up bare ASCII text with no links, and that I can't = even > get to the previous version(s) by editing the version number in the = URL, > because that version has expired, I just sigh. >=20 > So ... having as many links as possible redirect, would be awesome :D >=20 > Thanks, >=20 > Spencer >=20 >=20 >> OK. Would it be possible to also have >>=20 >> http://datatracker.ietf.org/id/... >>=20 >> redirect to it? That way, if I'm on a www.ietf.org-hosted draft, I = only >> need to replace 'www' with 'datatracker'... >>=20 >> Cheers, >>=20 >>=20 >> On 08/02/2010, at 10:40 PM, >> wrote: >>=20 >>> Thanks for your comments! >>>=20 >>> I don't think we can get down to one view any time soon, but yes, = the >>> plan is to replace several current URLs with redirects. This = includes >>> at least these URLs on datatracker: >>>=20 >>> http://datatracker.ietf.org/drafts/draft-ietf-pce-pcep/ >>> http://datatracker.ietf.org/drafts/draft-ietf-pce-pcep/related/ >>> http://datatracker.ietf.org/idtracker/draft-ietf-pce-pcep/ >>> http://datatracker.ietf.org/idtracker/ballot/2762/ >>> (IESG only) >>> = https://datatracker.ietf.org/cgi-bin/idtracker.cgi?command=3Dview_id&dTag=3D= 14049 >>> (IESG only) >>> = https://datatracker.ietf.org/cgi-bin/idtracker.cgi?command=3Dopen_ballot&i= d_document_tag=3D14049 >>>=20 >>> On www.ietf.org, I think we don't have anything except the plain = text >>> (e.g. http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-6lowpan-hc-06.txt); that = will >>> stay as-is. >>>=20 >>> Tools.ietf.org is a separate system, and I think Henrik wants to >>> continue maintaining it separately for the time being: >>>=20 >>> http://tools.ietf.org/wg/pce/draft-ietf-pce-pcep/ >>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pce-pcep-19 >>>=20 >>> Best regards, >>> Pasi >>>=20 >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:tools-discuss- >>>> bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of ext Mark Nottingham >>>> Sent: 31 January, 2010 01:32 >>>> To: Eronen Pasi (Nokia-NRC/Helsinki) >>>> Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org >>>> Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Datatracker improvements for testing >>>>=20 >>>> These look fantastic. >>>>=20 >>>> My only feedback is that once these are deemed "live" (now?), the >>>> various other I-D URLs hosted on tools, datatracker and ietf.org = should >>>> 301 redirect to them, so there's ONE view of this information, not >>>> (seemingly, sometimes) fifteen. >>>>=20 >>>> Cheers, >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> On 27/01/2010, at 6:17 AM, >>>> wrote: >>>>=20 >>>>> Hi everyone, >>>>>=20 >>>>> I'd like to invite everyone on the tools-discuss list to test the >>>>> upcoming datatracker improvements that Russ referred to recently: >>>>>=20 >>>>> http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ietf- >>>> announce/current/msg06907.html >>>>>=20 >>>>> Two starting points: >>>>>=20 >>>>> o The new search page (try searching for "nsis" for a good = overview >>>>> of new features): >>>>> http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/ >>>>>=20 >>>>> This page will eventually replace at least three separate search >>>>> interfaces in the current datatracker: /idtracker/, /drafts/, and >>>>> the IESG tracker search page. >>>>>=20 >>>>> o New per-draft page: >>>>> http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-csi-sndp-prob/ >>>>>=20 >>>>> Here the goal is again to simplify the system, and replace at >>>>> least three separate per-draft pages (one under /idtracker/, >>>>> another under /drafts/, and third in the IESG tracker) with one >>>>> page that shows all the information previously found on those >>>>> separate pages (and has "edit" buttons if you're logged in >>>>> as area director). >>>>>=20 >>>>> As Russ noted, this code is developed by volunteers, so please = send >>>>> bug reports, enhancement ideas, and other comments to this list, = not >>>>> the IETF secretariat. >>>>>=20 >>>>> (Note that if you have used this interface earlier, it might be >>>>> necessary to click "Reload" to clear old data from the cache.) >>>>>=20 >>>>> Best regards, >>>>> Pasi >=20 -- Mark Nottingham http://www.mnot.net/ From julian.reschke@gmx.de Tue Feb 9 05:27:46 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 965BB3A71DB for ; Tue, 9 Feb 2010 05:27:46 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.751 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.751 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-2.152, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id O-bIguQ2wRiZ for ; Tue, 9 Feb 2010 05:27:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 55DAD3A71D7 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 2010 05:27:45 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 09 Feb 2010 13:28:50 -0000 Received: from mail.greenbytes.de (EHLO [192.168.1.105]) [217.91.35.233] by mail.gmx.net (mp056) with SMTP; 09 Feb 2010 14:28:50 +0100 X-Authenticated: #1915285 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1+6aiFWmWu6opNe6R19BUO6Qgriesg7ll+AYYewLi ibZgyXfQ3JswtZ Message-ID: <4B71630F.8020405@gmx.de> Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 14:28:47 +0100 From: Julian Reschke User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; de; rv:1.8.0.4) Gecko/20060516 Thunderbird/1.5.0.4 Mnenhy/0.7.4.666 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mark Nottingham References: <808FD6E27AD4884E94820BC333B2DB77584119A04D@NOK-EUMSG-01.mgdnok.nokia.com><2D4D86DB-4D6D-4088-99F4-95D026B75F69@mnot.net><808FD6E27AD4884E94820BC333B2DB77584149340D@NOK-EUMSG-01.mgdnok.nokia.com> <5520939E-5896-4A75-80D5-0A7C8828B65B@mnot.net> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-FuHaFi: 0.75 Cc: pasi.Eronen@nokia.com, IETF TOOLS discussion Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Datatracker improvements for testing X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 13:27:46 -0000 Mark Nottingham wrote: > Agreed. > > One other thing - it would be wonderful if the print CSS for the page would remove the navigation elements, and place page breaks appropriately. I know that the CSS for page breaks isn't terribly well-supported, but it would be nice to try... > > (I can help with the CSS if needed) > ... I think forced page breaks work across UAs, and Henrik's http://tools.ietf.org/tools/rfcmarkup/ already does the right thing, so just steal from it's output. Best regards, Julian From brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com Wed Feb 10 18:33:00 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B54BE3A7647 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 2010 18:33:00 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.76 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.76 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.161, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 10+q8Cdw6vaf for ; Wed, 10 Feb 2010 18:32:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-px0-f179.google.com (mail-px0-f179.google.com [209.85.216.179]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0F1D3A72D1 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 2010 18:32:59 -0800 (PST) Received: by pxi9 with SMTP id 9so464208pxi.24 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 2010 18:34:09 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from :organization:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=zXxrCMIwySdFI6P7Ay5oG/PPnSPy/bZqWl7avC2NfFA=; b=QMtA5f+1EcEz2uqyrmGGDnw7DKTuMrdAzCqX9r1SCREvuHZVoNnKiCbBLInHnxDOFl 8/s98xs+g3todPUwFwZxeSmdCTT3P1cLbpF+Gd65AKTGSINzLm5Tay37AT9d6x5akq+m smgy96GOBWntS5no69Ai84zB/yIoe85UvYDS4= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:organization:user-agent:mime-version:to :subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=ayHxpGEW2qFCAQ5GPZuvFoh5xPb1GJ5M4bJZ2BDSPeD2sdfFxttMbVBI4OQzr+IaZF Z7gqLSfCoLj8J7TMbdIXvOSZf7i3JqWyWEj0NNElf3JVaqr+qKdgI/ur7NMxrKWQLAua FU936U0f80TYxEgqUFxr1FUhVkDnfUP8z16Yo= Received: by 10.142.201.14 with SMTP id y14mr732180wff.95.1265855649644; Wed, 10 Feb 2010 18:34:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?130.216.38.124? (stf-brian.sfac.auckland.ac.nz [130.216.38.124]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 21sm558408pzk.15.2010.02.10.18.34.08 (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Wed, 10 Feb 2010 18:34:09 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <4B736C90.2070105@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 15:33:52 +1300 From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: University of Auckland User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Tools Team Discussion References: <4B637374.3030909@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <4B637374.3030909@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Tools-discuss] .all@tools.ietf.org X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 02:33:00 -0000 > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Datatracker improvements for testing > Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 13:21:42 +0100 > From: Henrik Levkowetz > To: Pasi.Eronen@Nokia.com > CC: tools-discuss@ietf.org > > Hi Spencer, Pasi, > > Additional information on one item below: > > On 2010-01-28 18:27 Pasi.Eronen@Nokia.com said the following: >> Spencer Dawkins wrote: > .. >>> Re: mailing addresses for the draft - I bet there aren't many people >>> who do use this - but as a Gen-ART reviewer, I find it >>> invaluable. > ... > The draft aliases currently available on tools.ietf.org have been > enhanced during last autumn, so that the following are now available: > > @tools.ietf.org # Draft authors (for now, could change) > .authors@ # Draft authors > .chairs@ # WG Chairs (if the draft is a WG draft) > .notify@ # The addresses entered into the tracker's > # email notification field for the draft > .ad@ # The sponsoring AD, if the draft has gone > # to the IESG > .all@ # All of the above, merged into one alias I just fell into a Brian-shaped trap by unthinkingly sending mail to draft-ietf-tcpm-icmp-attacks-all@tools.ietf.org instead of draft-ietf-tcpm-icmp-attacks.all@tools.ietf.org I see the logic of "." as the delimiter but I fear my fingers will keep typing "-" whatever my brain tells them ;-) Brian From henrik@levkowetz.com Thu Feb 11 02:11:25 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65BE23A769C for ; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 02:11:25 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ecx6aOYNlm0s for ; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 02:11:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from merlot.tools.ietf.org (merlot.tools.ietf.org [IPv6:2a01:3f0:0:31:214:22ff:fe21:bb]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69E533A76A0 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 02:11:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from brunello.autonomica.se ([2a01:3f0:1:0:21e:c2ff:fe13:7e3e]:50781 helo=dyn-fg117.sth.netnod.se) by merlot.tools.ietf.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1NfW1y-0000yX-Ay; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 11:12:18 +0100 Message-ID: <4B73D801.5000109@levkowetz.com> Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 11:12:17 +0100 From: Henrik Levkowetz User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; en-GB; rv:1.9.1.7) Gecko/20100111 Thunderbird/3.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brian E Carpenter References: <4B637374.3030909@gmail.com> <4B736C90.2070105@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <4B736C90.2070105@gmail.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.0.1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 2a01:3f0:1:0:21e:c2ff:fe13:7e3e X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com, tools-discuss@ietf.org, henrik-sent@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1 (built Sat, 01 Aug 2009 12:09:26 +0000) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on merlot.tools.ietf.org) Cc: Tools Team Discussion Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] .all@tools.ietf.org X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 10:11:26 -0000 Hi Brian, On 2010-02-11 03:33 Brian E Carpenter said the following: ... > > I just fell into a Brian-shaped trap by unthinkingly sending mail to > draft-ietf-tcpm-icmp-attacks-all@tools.ietf.org instead of > draft-ietf-tcpm-icmp-attacks.all@tools.ietf.org > > I see the logic of "." as the delimiter but I fear my fingers > will keep typing "-" whatever my brain tells them ;-) Mmm. So do you suggest we add '-' delimited versions of the current '.' delimited aliases? It does create the possibility of alias collisions, if there are at some point drafts named both and -all, and -chairs etc., but this is maybe a sufficiently improbable case that we can ignore it? I'm not sure what's best here -- the programmer shrinks at the thought of creating a potential name collision, but the pragmatist sees the advantage of making things easy on the people who will use the aliases... Best, Henrik From scott.brim@gmail.com Thu Feb 11 05:33:11 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 976EF28C1C8 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 05:33:11 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.52 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.52 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.079, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4IdArpAlqNjy for ; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 05:33:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from qw-out-2122.google.com (qw-out-2122.google.com [74.125.92.25]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B384928C1C6 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 05:33:10 -0800 (PST) Received: by qw-out-2122.google.com with SMTP id 9so272978qwb.31 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 05:34:21 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from :user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to :x-enigmail-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=9ij93BV2okzUDuhajwTwHPJc8zQW/qp83achyEOqDpY=; b=qGmFODB2fNA+2IzPjO/WYlEFyfb1atgEqsAEk/cNAnGCvDfHlBrw+mlq4gy5IHg8l6 +5ccT/BDkaWuav88Hm3oXqFa6p1TYfuIxhgd96gy8oYXGcEti+2sbuM1xkKirpCDN4Mm WlzKb/fuLu8fL47/fk+i0Xh9c0B72E6kue8UQ= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:x-enigmail-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=mUZsOKDwx88dufIzAuZhpMy4fPz0zwchPy3X8H4fLNtCWXcfEredkCy+XM+xyB8rsn SsFg9gVGyIqttg0TF6RW1wPGTyWvMCN69ZF5i51spOfMNFkbMCOGBR5A9ZqpJdcKAp+F ZOSWiycJ8GJToGGCEhHb3Rir4xLQnf7QHhyPc= Received: by 10.224.50.144 with SMTP id z16mr895612qaf.378.1265895261437; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 05:34:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from sbrim-mbp.local (198-135-0-233.cisco.com [198.135.0.233]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 5sm6192164qwg.38.2010.02.11.05.34.18 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Thu, 11 Feb 2010 05:34:19 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <4B740758.5060704@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 08:34:16 -0500 From: Scott Brim User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; en-US; rv:1.9.1.7) Gecko/20100111 Thunderbird/3.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Henrik Levkowetz References: <4B637374.3030909@gmail.com> <4B736C90.2070105@gmail.com> <4B73D801.5000109@levkowetz.com> In-Reply-To: <4B73D801.5000109@levkowetz.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.0.1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Brian E Carpenter , Tools Team Discussion Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] .all@tools.ietf.org X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 13:33:11 -0000 Henrik Levkowetz allegedly wrote on 02/11/2010 05:12 EST: > Hi Brian, > > On 2010-02-11 03:33 Brian E Carpenter said the following: > ... >> >> I just fell into a Brian-shaped trap by unthinkingly sending mail to >> draft-ietf-tcpm-icmp-attacks-all@tools.ietf.org instead of >> draft-ietf-tcpm-icmp-attacks.all@tools.ietf.org >> >> I see the logic of "." as the delimiter but I fear my fingers >> will keep typing "-" whatever my brain tells them ;-) > > Mmm. So do you suggest we add '-' delimited versions of the current '.' > delimited aliases? It does create the possibility of alias collisions, > if there are at some point drafts named both and -all, > and -chairs etc., but this is maybe a sufficiently > improbable case that we can ignore it? > > I'm not sure what's best here -- the programmer shrinks at the thought > of creating a potential name collision, but the pragmatist sees the > advantage of making things easy on the people who will use the aliases... To reduce the possibility of error, the keywords should clearly be distribution keywords. The problem is that "authors", "chairs", etc. could be used in document names. Some such as "authors" are pretty safe but we might see "draft-dawkins-advice-to-authors@tools.ietf.org". To eliminate the possibility of collision, make the distribution keywords clearly scoped. Hmm ... Possibly make them unique with a modifier, e.g. "draft-ietf-tcpm-icmp-attacks.distauthors"? "draft-ietf-tcpm-icmp-attacks.authors-list"? Possibly just require the distribution keyword to be all capitals? Scott From adam@nostrum.com Thu Feb 11 06:46:57 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FFAA3A76FF for ; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 06:46:57 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.552 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.552 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.048, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tHuqoU0Hv3t8 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 06:46:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from nostrum.com (nostrum-pt.tunnel.tserv2.fmt.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f03:267::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 251493A7557 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 06:46:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from [172.16.3.231] (vicuna-alt.estacado.net [75.53.54.121]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o1BEm6Dd043198 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 11 Feb 2010 08:48:07 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from adam@nostrum.com) Message-ID: <4B7418A6.2030902@nostrum.com> Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 08:48:06 -0600 From: Adam Roach User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; en-US; rv:1.9.1.7) Gecko/20100111 Thunderbird/3.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Henrik Levkowetz References: <4B637374.3030909@gmail.com> <4B736C90.2070105@gmail.com> <4B73D801.5000109@levkowetz.com> In-Reply-To: <4B73D801.5000109@levkowetz.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received-SPF: pass (nostrum.com: 75.53.54.121 is authenticated by a trusted mechanism) Cc: Brian E Carpenter , Tools Team Discussion Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] .all@tools.ietf.org X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 14:46:57 -0000 On 2/11/10 4:12 AM, Henrik Levkowetz wrote: > Mmm. So do you suggest we add '-' delimited versions of the current > '.' delimited aliases? It does create the possibility of alias > collisions, if there are at some point drafts named both > and -all, and -chairs etc., but this is > maybe a sufficiently improbable case that we can ignore it? I'm not so sure. It would only be through sheer force of will that I would be able to prevent myself from submitting drafts with names that intentionally end in -all. I'm sure there are some who are more discordian and less restrained in our community who won't actually be able to resist the temptation. /a From spencer@wonderhamster.org Thu Feb 11 07:59:59 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30F793A7708 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 07:59:59 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.587 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.587 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.012, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sgLnBmDd99lH for ; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 07:59:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [74.208.4.195]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40FCF3A68AC for ; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 07:59:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from S73602b (w173.z064002096.dfw-tx.dsl.cnc.net [64.2.96.173]) by mrelay.perfora.net (node=mrus3) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0MVvVI-1ND33c1oJU-00Xj5F; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 11:00:49 -0500 Message-ID: <293FE7A2949E434DB09D5A4C69EA5BCC@china.huawei.com> From: "Spencer Dawkins" To: "Adam Roach" , "Henrik Levkowetz" References: <4B637374.3030909@gmail.com> <4B736C90.2070105@gmail.com><4B73D801.5000109@levkowetz.com> <4B7418A6.2030902@nostrum.com> Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 10:00:41 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1/7Qea3VxXzOoPDYBbgUNYnDaaW3G6mZzmOMdp MleseGGZtuMwqAU2hXT12ox2n/q77JGpXK2d1C2rSCvFT7aSf5 f4MDSfSBiqTQkMJ09Tx9y+9iu9u7c5G7T5t+21aGbI= Cc: Brian E Carpenter , Tools Team Discussion Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] .all@tools.ietf.org X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 15:59:59 -0000 Hi, Henrik, (with apologies to Brian) >> Mmm. So do you suggest we add '-' delimited versions of the current '.' >> delimited aliases? It does create the possibility of alias collisions, if >> there are at some point drafts named both and -all, >> and -chairs etc., but this is maybe a sufficiently >> improbable case that we can ignore it? > > I'm not so sure. It would only be through sheer force of will that I would > be able to prevent myself from submitting drafts with names that > intentionally end in -all. I'm sure there are some who are more discordian > and less restrained in our community who won't actually be able to resist > the temptation. > > /a I'm afraid I'm with Adam here. Most of the suffixes on the current list of aliases are terms that wouldn't surprise us if they appeared at the end of a real filename, especially one about IETF process. I'd rather have Henrik working on some other high-priority request, rather than working on heuristics to keep us from having this problem. And I don't have to be discordian to set off this land mine - simply picking a filename at the last moment before ID cutoff might be the most likely cause of a conflict. Thanks, Spencer From brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com Thu Feb 11 11:28:34 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 951223A73B2 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 11:28:34 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.63 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.63 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.031, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id F2Yl5onv9QZF for ; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 11:28:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ew0-f228.google.com (mail-ew0-f228.google.com [209.85.219.228]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6417D3A7193 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 11:28:33 -0800 (PST) Received: by ewy28 with SMTP id 28so296927ewy.28 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 11:29:44 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from :organization:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=4xo33MXKqD4hNjsPSIcD88KCJiph3MhdUTPpMeWfaGE=; b=p8LX2UH5I1ATijyfF7sJWn9jiO47pSUmvgoDcDk2x+tU1AC7b9SAa3wu90cfksuWH3 HRc3K89oBxUM+9nyQxYIvSmkb7vJF/TF7DUdg12ei6ozaKZ1Nyvot9gH7f90oG6Bo+xl F5WH4GFOTPC9+mBanWcxuzBKkalOAtVXXmQZc= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:organization:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc :subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=fiZRpJjKDCSW8Gd9Us9FbsyxrhaMCWgWjAZ8Vei0pbdOF3vv74JAhBOs4yH9RRMWia hAmHJhuO3IvYluKYlg0NrsGqvzrm9OcbHKuyXDW2755+uiKZbFbbrqHLmWm2frEA8ddU IFKWyYdxwST4q4JsDGxWIXJ4AR7NfKlcsrhsc= Received: by 10.216.87.136 with SMTP id y8mr188638wee.43.1265916581864; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 11:29:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?10.1.1.5? ([121.98.142.15]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id n12sm4017918gve.14.2010.02.11.11.29.37 (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Thu, 11 Feb 2010 11:29:40 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <4B745A96.704@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 08:29:26 +1300 From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: University of Auckland User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Spencer Dawkins References: <4B637374.3030909@gmail.com> <4B736C90.2070105@gmail.com><4B73D801.5000109@levkowetz.com> <4B7418A6.2030902@nostrum.com> <293FE7A2949E434DB09D5A4C69EA5BCC@china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <293FE7A2949E434DB09D5A4C69EA5BCC@china.huawei.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Henrik Levkowetz , Tools Team Discussion Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] .all@tools.ietf.org X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 19:28:34 -0000 On 2010-02-12 05:00, Spencer Dawkins wrote: > Hi, Henrik, (with apologies to Brian) > >>> Mmm. So do you suggest we add '-' delimited versions of the current >>> '.' delimited aliases? It does create the possibility of alias >>> collisions, if there are at some point drafts named both >>> and -all, and -chairs etc., but this >>> is maybe a sufficiently improbable case that we can ignore it? >> >> I'm not so sure. It would only be through sheer force of will that I >> would be able to prevent myself from submitting drafts with names that >> intentionally end in -all. I'm sure there are some who are more >> discordian and less restrained in our community who won't actually be >> able to resist the temptation. >> >> /a > > I'm afraid I'm with Adam here. Most of the suffixes on the current list > of aliases are terms that wouldn't surprise us if they appeared at the > end of a real filename, especially one about IETF process. I'd rather > have Henrik working on some other high-priority request, rather than > working on heuristics to keep us from having this problem. > > And I don't have to be discordian to set off this land mine - simply > picking a filename at the last moment before ID cutoff might be the most > likely cause of a conflict. On balance, I agree. Mixing syntax and semantics is a computer science blunder. Maybe any documentation of the scheme should flag this as a common mistake to be avoided. Brian From spencer@wonderhamster.org Thu Feb 11 15:30:04 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 578A03A726B for ; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 15:30:04 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.5 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.098, BAYES_00=-2.599, STOX_REPLY_TYPE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KUAjcn+Ff5MK for ; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 15:30:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [74.208.4.194]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F203B3A75FB for ; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 15:30:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from S73602b (cpe-76-182-230-135.tx.res.rr.com [76.182.230.135]) by mrelay.perfora.net (node=mrus0) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0MHItv-1NTM9K1ykd-00EH7o; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 18:31:02 -0500 Message-ID: <56962337DBC94ADFB8F8D5D28431493A@china.huawei.com> From: "Spencer Dawkins" To: "Brian E Carpenter" References: <4B637374.3030909@gmail.com> <4B736C90.2070105@gmail.com><4B73D801.5000109@levkowetz.com> <4B7418A6.2030902@nostrum.com> <293FE7A2949E434DB09D5A4C69EA5BCC@china.huawei.com> <4B745A96.704@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:30:55 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="UTF-8"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX19u5LRVVMWtt358En452IZBbTHeWkn4+cBVCtl p29IA0RMcmxOFivmRPsuslwuH7d4zHkTxzXSxoLOgqvGPcJdYo mCAN6jiTk0XlWXmV78X/UjqdCJl5I/el0MaL/9j1I0= Cc: Henrik Levkowetz , Tools Team Discussion Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] .all@tools.ietf.org X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 23:30:04 -0000 On behalf of everyone who misaddresses e-mail, I agree ;-) Spencer >> Hi, Henrik, (with apologies to Brian) >> >>>> Mmm. So do you suggest we add '-' delimited versions of the current >>>> '.' delimited aliases? It does create the possibility of alias >>>> collisions, if there are at some point drafts named both >>>> and -all, and -chairs etc., but this >>>> is maybe a sufficiently improbable case that we can ignore it? >>> >>> I'm not so sure. It would only be through sheer force of will that I >>> would be able to prevent myself from submitting drafts with names that >>> intentionally end in -all. I'm sure there are some who are more >>> discordian and less restrained in our community who won't actually be >>> able to resist the temptation. >>> >>> /a >> >> I'm afraid I'm with Adam here. Most of the suffixes on the current list >> of aliases are terms that wouldn't surprise us if they appeared at the >> end of a real filename, especially one about IETF process. I'd rather >> have Henrik working on some other high-priority request, rather than >> working on heuristics to keep us from having this problem. >> >> And I don't have to be discordian to set off this land mine - simply >> picking a filename at the last moment before ID cutoff might be the most >> likely cause of a conflict. > > On balance, I agree. Mixing syntax and semantics is a computer science > blunder. Maybe any documentation of the scheme should flag this as a > common mistake to be avoided. > > Brian From pekkas@netcore.fi Fri Feb 12 04:41:49 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4356C3A72E7 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 04:41:49 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.549 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.549 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.050, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id P0QfQaF6Elig for ; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 04:41:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from netcore.fi (eunet-gw.ipv6.netcore.fi [IPv6:2001:670:86:3001::1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE04F3A6D48 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 04:41:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from netcore.fi (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by netcore.fi (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id o1CCh0qT016750 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 14:43:00 +0200 Received: from localhost (pekkas@localhost) by netcore.fi (8.13.8/8.13.8/Submit) with ESMTP id o1CCh0r4016747 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 14:43:00 +0200 Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 14:43:00 +0200 (EET) From: Pekka Savola To: tools-discuss@ietf.org Message-ID: User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (LRH 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.95.3 at otso.netcore.fi X-Virus-Status: Clean Subject: [Tools-discuss] WG mail archive search X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 12:41:49 -0000 Hi, The mail archive search at tools.ietf.org WG pages has some shortcomings, I wonder if these are known issues? It's only searching maillist.html, and as a consequence: - it's always returning at most one hit (the big HTML file), and you have to find the offending message yourself, - it's not searching mail bodies just the headers in maillist.html, and - in mailing lists with more activity, earliest records have been moved to the next pages. -- Pekka Savola "You each name yourselves king, yet the Netcore Oy kingdom bleeds." Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings From rjsparks@nostrum.com Fri Feb 12 08:53:06 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 956E53A771E for ; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 08:53:06 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.49 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.49 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.110, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ISqsCc-O7Ams for ; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 08:53:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from nostrum.com (nostrum-pt.tunnel.tserv2.fmt.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f03:267::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B328F3A76EB for ; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 08:53:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.2.48] (pool-173-71-49-71.dllstx.fios.verizon.net [173.71.49.71]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o1CGsKkA017419 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Fri, 12 Feb 2010 10:54:20 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from rjsparks@nostrum.com) Message-Id: <74A180AD-371E-43AA-B5CE-7E814BCF48C3@nostrum.com> From: Robert Sparks To: Pekka Savola In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v936) Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 10:54:19 -0600 References: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.936) Received-SPF: pass (nostrum.com: 173.71.49.71 is authenticated by a trusted mechanism) Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] WG mail archive search X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 16:53:06 -0000 +1! There's a wishlist at for this or the next codesprint. Please go add things like this to it. If anybody else has something they want the tools to do, get it on that list. If you are willing to make some of them happen, please sign up for the sprint: RjS On Feb 12, 2010, at 6:43 AM, Pekka Savola wrote: > Hi, > > The mail archive search at tools.ietf.org WG pages has some > shortcomings, I wonder if these are known issues? It's only > searching maillist.html, and as a consequence: > > - it's always returning at most one hit (the big HTML file), and you > have to find the offending message yourself, > - it's not searching mail bodies just the headers in maillist.html, > and > - in mailing lists with more activity, earliest records have been > moved to the next pages. > > -- > Pekka Savola "You each name yourselves king, yet the > Netcore Oy kingdom bleeds." > Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings > _______________________________________________ > Tools-discuss mailing list > Tools-discuss@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From rjsparks@nostrum.com Fri Feb 12 08:56:01 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B44EF28C17C; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 08:56:01 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.499 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.499 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.100, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CnWn0JFqNAMJ; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 08:56:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from nostrum.com (nostrum-pt.tunnel.tserv2.fmt.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f03:267::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 563343A771C; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 08:55:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.2.48] (pool-173-71-49-71.dllstx.fios.verizon.net [173.71.49.71]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o1CGvF1w017640 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Fri, 12 Feb 2010 10:57:15 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from rjsparks@nostrum.com) Message-Id: <07FD8805-89F9-48D8-80C3-02E5702ACA0F@nostrum.com> From: Robert Sparks To: Tools Discuss , codesprints@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-36--76173831 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v936) Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 10:57:14 -0600 References: <20100205163214.6AD0628C113@core3.amsl.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.936) Received-SPF: pass (nostrum.com: 173.71.49.71 is authenticated by a trusted mechanism) Subject: [Tools-discuss] Fwd: Anaheim IETF Codesprint X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 16:56:01 -0000 --Apple-Mail-36--76173831 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If you haven't already signed up for this codesprint and want to help, please let us know now! Information about the sprint is coming together at Please go add what you would like to see happen to the wishlist on that page. The signup is at RjS Begin forwarded message: > From: IETF Chair > Date: February 5, 2010 10:32:14 AM CST > To: IETF Announcement list > Cc: 77all@ietf.org, ietf@ietf.org > Subject: Anaheim IETF Codesprint > Reply-To: ietf@ietf.org > > Anaheim IETF Codesprint > > When: March 20, 2010, beginning at 9:30 AM > > Where: IETF Hotel > > What: A bunch of hackers get together to work on code for the IETF. > Some people may be preparing for the transition to a new data > base schema; some people may be preparing for the upcoming > extensions to support working groups; some people may be > adding exciting new functionality. All code will become > part of the open source IETF tools. > > Who: Hopefully you can help > > Many of the results of previous codesprint activities are being > used every day by the IETF community. Steve Conte will be helping > with advance planning. Henrik Levkowetz will be coordinating the > event in Anaheim. More information is available at: > > http://trac.tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb/wiki/IETF77Sprint > > If you are able to participate, please sign up on the wiki at: > > http://trac.tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb/wiki/IETF77SprintSignUp > > Please support the tools development effort, > Russ > _______________________________________________ > Ietf mailing list > Ietf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf --Apple-Mail-36--76173831 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable If you haven't already signed = up for this codesprint and want to help,
please let us know = now!

Information about the sprint is coming = together at

<= /div>
Please go add what you would like to see happen to the = wishlist on that page.

The signup is = at
<h= ttp://trac.tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb/wiki/IETF77SprintSignUp>


RjS

Begi= n forwarded message:

From: = IETF Chair <chair@ietf.org>
Date: = February 5, 2010 10:32:14 AM CST
To: IETF = Announcement list <ietf-announce@ietf.org>
Subject: = Anaheim IETF Codesprint 
Reply-To: = ietf@ietf.org

Anaheim IETF = Codesprint

When:  March 20, 2010, beginning at 9:30 = AM

Where: IETF Hotel

What:  A bunch of hackers get = together to work on code for the IETF.
=      Some people may be preparing for the = transition to a new data
     base schema; = some people may be preparing for the upcoming
=      extensions to support working groups; some = people may be
     adding exciting new = functionality.  All code will become
=      part of the open source IETF = tools.

Who:   Hopefully you can help

Many of the = results of previous codesprint activities are being
used every day by = the IETF community.  Steve Conte will be helping
with advance = planning.  Henrik Levkowetz will be coordinating the
event in = Anaheim.  More information is available at:

http://= trac.tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb/wiki/IETF77Sprint

If you are = able to participate, please sign up on the wiki at:

h= ttp://trac.tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb/wiki/IETF77SprintSignUp

= Please support the tools development effort,
=  Russ
_______________________________________________
Ietf = mailing list
Ietf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/ma= ilman/listinfo/ietf

= --Apple-Mail-36--76173831-- From Pasi.Eronen@nokia.com Mon Feb 15 00:01:46 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C44223A77B5 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 2010 00:01:46 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.372 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.372 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.227, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aP-X7CETXYuo for ; Mon, 15 Feb 2010 00:01:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from mgw-mx03.nokia.com (smtp.nokia.com [192.100.122.230]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C6253A7720 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 2010 00:01:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from esebh105.NOE.Nokia.com (esebh105.ntc.nokia.com [172.21.138.211]) by mgw-mx03.nokia.com (Switch-3.3.3/Switch-3.3.3) with ESMTP id o1F82vq7031316 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 2010 10:03:12 +0200 Received: from vaebh102.NOE.Nokia.com ([10.160.244.23]) by esebh105.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Mon, 15 Feb 2010 10:03:10 +0200 Received: from vaebh101.NOE.Nokia.com ([10.160.244.22]) by vaebh102.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Mon, 15 Feb 2010 10:03:04 +0200 Received: from smtp.mgd.nokia.com ([65.54.30.7]) by vaebh101.NOE.Nokia.com over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Mon, 15 Feb 2010 10:03:01 +0200 Received: from NOK-EUMSG-01.mgdnok.nokia.com ([65.54.30.86]) by nok-am1mhub-03.mgdnok.nokia.com ([65.54.30.7]) with mapi; Mon, 15 Feb 2010 09:03:00 +0100 From: To: Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 09:02:57 +0100 Thread-Topic: Data sources / alternatives to screen scraping Thread-Index: AcquFUjhZRIRdljIT/+nJJWVIPTJIQ== Message-ID: <808FD6E27AD4884E94820BC333B2DB775841610C5C@NOK-EUMSG-01.mgdnok.nokia.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Feb 2010 08:03:01.0269 (UTC) FILETIME=[4B337450:01CAAE15] X-Nokia-AV: Clean Subject: [Tools-discuss] Data sources / alternatives to screen scraping X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 08:01:46 -0000 Hi all, As Russ announced on the ietf-announce list a month ago, the upcoming datatracker user interface changes will break scripts that do "screen-scraping", or try to parse the HTML pages to extract some information. Much of the information is also available in forms that are intended to parseable by scripts; however, those data sources aren't exactly well documented (and it's not always easy to tell which of them are authorative primary data, and which derived). I've now updated the data source documentation on the Tools wiki (http://trac.tools.ietf.org/group/tools/trac/wiki/DataSources). Here's a quick summary about the most important primary data sources: --------- Status of all internet-drafts (tab-separated text; generated from the database by a cron job once a day): http://www.ietf.org/id/all_id.txt Title/authors/abstract/date for active internet-drafts (text; generated from the database by cron jobs once a day. Although these text files were probably originally intended for mainly human consumption, their format has been very stable over the years, and as they're currently used by number of tools, I would expect this to continue): http://www.ietf.org/id/1id-index.txt http://www.ietf.org/id/1id-abstracts.txt All RFCs (XML/text; note that the XML has much more information than the text version): http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc-index.xml http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc-index.txt Documents that are currently in IETF last call (Atom feed; generated from the database on-the-fly): http://datatracker.ietf.org/feed/last-call/ Document that are on the agenda of upcoming IESG telechats (tab-separated text; generated from the database on-the-fly): http://datatracker.ietf.org/iesg/agenda/documents.txt Documents in the RFC editor queue (XML): http://www.rfc-editor.org/queue2.xml Detailed datatracker history for a particular draft (Atom feed; generated from the database on-the-fly): http://datatracker.ietf.org/feed/comments/draft-ietf-msec-newtype-keyid/ Information about active WGs, chairs, mailing lists, charters, etc (text; generated from the database on-the-fly): http://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/summary.txt http://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/1wg-charters.txt IPR disclosures by draft (tab-separated text; generated from the database on-the-fly): http://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/by-draft/=20 --------- The upcoming datatracker UI changes will affect only HTML pages, not any of the text/Atom/etc. URLs listed above. =20 Best regards, Pasi From henrik@levkowetz.com Mon Feb 15 05:50:18 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 298A43A798A for ; Mon, 15 Feb 2010 05:50:18 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ovJsBAy+PYVj for ; Mon, 15 Feb 2010 05:50:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from merlot.tools.ietf.org (merlot.tools.ietf.org [IPv6:2a01:3f0:0:31:214:22ff:fe21:bb]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDA0C3A7710 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 2010 05:50:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from brunello.autonomica.se ([2a01:3f0:1:0:21e:c2ff:fe13:7e3e]:58748 helo=dyn-fg117.sth.netnod.se) by merlot.tools.ietf.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Nh1MT-0001TV-Tx; Mon, 15 Feb 2010 14:51:42 +0100 Message-ID: <4B79516D.9050705@levkowetz.com> Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 14:51:41 +0100 From: Henrik Levkowetz User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; en-GB; rv:1.9.1.7) Gecko/20100111 Thunderbird/3.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Pekka Savola References: In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.0.1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 2a01:3f0:1:0:21e:c2ff:fe13:7e3e X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: pekkas@netcore.fi, tools-discuss@ietf.org, henrik-sent@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1 (built Sat, 01 Aug 2009 12:09:26 +0000) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on merlot.tools.ietf.org) Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] WG mail archive search X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 13:50:18 -0000 Hi Pekka, On 2010-02-12 13:43 Pekka Savola said the following: > Hi, > > The mail archive search at tools.ietf.org WG pages has some > shortcomings, I wonder if these are known issues? It's only searching > maillist.html, and as a consequence: Oops. That's not the way it should be. When I originally added this, the mailing list archive URLs specified in the charters were generally of the form http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/avt/ while now I find that they just as often can be of the form http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/avt/index.html or even http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/btns/current/maillist.html To fix this, I'm now removing any trailing '*.html' component, and if there is a '/current/' part I remove that, too. This should fix the issue in most cases. Best, Henrik From falk@bbn.com Thu Feb 18 11:19:22 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 272CE3A7B46 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 11:19:22 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.138 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.138 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.338, BAYES_00=-2.599, SARE_SUB_RAND_LETTRS4=0.799, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dswzXtoGsO67 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 11:19:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.bbn.com (smtp.bbn.com [128.33.1.81]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E7403A8035 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 11:19:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from dhcp89-081-193.bbn.com ([128.89.81.193]) by smtp.bbn.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NiBvh-0002M4-B5; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 14:20:53 -0500 Message-ID: <4B7D9314.4090405@bbn.com> Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 14:20:52 -0500 From: Aaron Falk User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; en-US; rv:1.9.1.7) Gecko/20100111 Lightning/1.0b1 Thunderbird/3.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Henrik Levkowetz Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Elwyn Davies , tools-discuss@ietf.org, Stephen Farrell Subject: [Tools-discuss] IRTF trac ticket 'description' field non-editable X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 19:19:22 -0000 Hi Henrik- Elwyn has discovered that he can't edit the ticket description field on the IRTF Trac server. The IRSG is starting to be more attentive to ticket contents and fixing errors in tickets is desirable. (Ticket descriptions tend to contain meta-data about documents.) c.f. http://trac.tools.ietf.org/group/irtf/trac/ticket/31 Can you make it so 'description' can be edited? --aaron From henrik@levkowetz.com Thu Feb 18 14:10:24 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B870B28C0EC for ; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 14:10:24 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.45 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.45 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.650, BAYES_00=-2.599, SARE_SUB_RAND_LETTRS4=0.799, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ChETJGz2PD87 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 14:10:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from merlot.tools.ietf.org (merlot.tools.ietf.org [IPv6:2a01:3f0:0:31:214:22ff:fe21:bb]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 475DD3A8078 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 14:10:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from h-85-245.a212.priv.bahnhof.se ([94.254.85.245]:59041) by merlot.tools.ietf.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1NiEb0-0000Kv-F4; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 23:11:44 +0100 Message-ID: <4B7DBB1D.1050504@levkowetz.com> Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 23:11:41 +0100 From: Henrik Levkowetz User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; en-US; rv:1.9.1.7) Gecko/20100111 Thunderbird/3.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Aaron Falk References: <4B7D9314.4090405@bbn.com> In-Reply-To: <4B7D9314.4090405@bbn.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 94.254.85.245 X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: falk@bbn.com, elwynd@dial.pipex.com, stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie, tools-discuss@ietf.org, henrik-sent@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1 (built Sat, 01 Aug 2009 12:09:26 +0000) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on merlot.tools.ietf.org) Cc: Elwyn Davies , tools-discuss@ietf.org, Stephen Farrell Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] IRTF trac ticket 'description' field non-editable X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 22:10:24 -0000 Hi, On 2010-02-18 20:20 Aaron Falk said the following: > Hi Henrik- > > Elwyn has discovered that he can't edit the ticket description field on > the IRTF Trac server. The IRSG is starting to be more attentive to > ticket contents and fixing errors in tickets is desirable. (Ticket > descriptions tend to contain meta-data about documents.) > > c.f. http://trac.tools.ietf.org/group/irtf/trac/ticket/31 > > Can you make it so 'description' can be edited? Fixed! Best, Henrik From falk@bbn.com Thu Feb 18 14:58:55 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 956A93A807D for ; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 14:58:55 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.114 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.114 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.314, BAYES_00=-2.599, SARE_SUB_RAND_LETTRS4=0.799, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id E0bS07Fc56P4 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 14:58:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.bbn.com (smtp.bbn.com [128.33.0.80]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02BB73A7FEE for ; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 14:58:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from dhcp89-081-193.bbn.com ([128.89.81.193]) by smtp.bbn.com with esmtps (TLSv1:CAMELLIA256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NiFMI-000BiV-8a; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 18:00:34 -0500 Message-ID: <4B7DC68F.6030700@bbn.com> Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 18:00:31 -0500 From: Aaron Falk User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; en-US; rv:1.9.1.7) Gecko/20100111 Lightning/1.0b1 Thunderbird/3.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Henrik Levkowetz References: <4B7D9314.4090405@bbn.com> <4B7DBB1D.1050504@levkowetz.com> In-Reply-To: <4B7DBB1D.1050504@levkowetz.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Elwyn Davies , tools-discuss@ietf.org, Stephen Farrell Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] IRTF trac ticket 'description' field non-editable X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 22:58:55 -0000 On 2/18/10 5:11 PM, Henrik Levkowetz wrote: >> Can you make it so 'description' can be edited? >> > Fixed! > > Yay! Thanks!! --aaron From falk@bbn.com Sun Feb 21 21:08:29 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B83FD28C196 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 21:08:29 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.092 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.092 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.293, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SARE_SUB_RAND_LETTRS4=0.799, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kRtu62Ee9aqf for ; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 21:08:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.bbn.com (smtp.bbn.com [128.33.0.80]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7886428C238 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 21:08:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from [128.89.255.172] (helo=dhcp-205-69.housing.utah.edu) by smtp.bbn.com with esmtp (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NjQYq-000Hxp-N6; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 00:10:25 -0500 Message-ID: <4B8211BF.6080001@bbn.com> Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 22:10:23 -0700 From: Aaron Falk User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; en-US; rv:1.9.1.7) Gecko/20100111 Lightning/1.0b1 Thunderbird/3.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Henrik Levkowetz Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------080000080400050609010500" Cc: Internet Research Steering Group , tools-discuss@ietf.org Subject: [Tools-discuss] Fwd: [IRSG] IRTF document state names X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 05:08:29 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------080000080400050609010500 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------020408030802080903020304" --------------020408030802080903020304 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Henrik- Can you make the change proposed below to the IRTF Trac config? Thanks, --aaron -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [IRSG] IRTF document state names Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 13:31:28 -0500 From: Aaron Falk To: Internet Research Steering Group Hi Folks- The IRTF trac tickets need to be tweaked a bit IMO. The current states a document ticket can take are 0. RG Review 1. Initiation of IRSG review 2. IRSG review received 3. IRSG review concluded 4. Awaiting IESG review 5. Awaiting submission to RFC Editor 6. In RFC Ed Queue The IRSG review states are not very useful and there is no reflection of the transition from conclusion of the IRSG review to the IRSG polling period. I suggest the following: 0. In research group 1. IRSG review 2. IRSG poll 3. IESG review 4. RFC Editor Queue 5. Published I'm not sure whether there should be a state called 'RG revision' since a doc can transition to 'in research group' from any of the other states should revision be required. In the interests of keeping things simple, I suggest an additional state is not needed. Barring any objection, I'll ask Henrik to make the appropriate changes. Once that's done I'll ask you to check that the tickets for your documents are accurate. Open tickets are listed here: http://trac.tools.ietf.org/group/irtf/trac/report/1 I was surprised to see this page, http://wiki.tools.ietf.org/group/irtf/, links to the trac tickets. The status column is from the IETF document tracker. On a related note, there's an effort starting to make the IETF doc tracker, which was initially developed for IESG use, accessible to working group chairs and other document streams. This effort may result in consolidation of the IRTF and IETF tools, if it turns out the IETF tools are useful to us. I understand there will be a bof on this subject Friday morning in Anaheim. The agenda of the BoF is focused on wg chairs. However, there will be an opportunity for the RG chairs to provide input slightly later. --aaron --------------020408030802080903020304 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Henrik-

Can you make the change proposed below to the IRTF Trac config?

Thanks,

--aaron

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [IRSG] IRTF document state names
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 13:31:28 -0500
From: Aaron Falk <falk@bbn.com>
To: Internet Research Steering Group <irsg@ISI.EDU>


Hi Folks-

The IRTF trac tickets need to be tweaked a bit IMO.  The current states a document ticket can take are
0. RG Review
1. Initiation of IRSG review
2. IRSG review received
3. IRSG review concluded
4. Awaiting IESG review
5. Awaiting submission to RFC Editor
6. In RFC Ed Queue

The IRSG review states are not very useful and there is no reflection of the transition from conclusion of the IRSG review to the IRSG polling period.  I suggest the following:
0. In research group
1. IRSG review
2. IRSG poll
3. IESG review
4. RFC Editor Queue
5. Published

I'm not sure whether there should be a state called 'RG revision' since a doc can transition to 'in research group' from any of the other states should revision be required.  In the interests of keeping things simple, I suggest an additional state is not needed.

Barring any objection, I'll ask Henrik to make the appropriate changes.  Once that's done I'll ask you to check that the tickets for your documents are accurate.  Open tickets are listed here: http://trac.tools.ietf.org/group/irtf/trac/report/1

I was surprised to see this page, http://wiki.tools.ietf.org/group/irtf/, links to the trac tickets.  The status column is from the IETF document tracker.  On a related note, there's an effort starting to make the IETF doc tracker, which was initially developed for IESG use, accessible to working group chairs and other document streams.  This effort may result in consolidation of the IRTF and IETF tools, if it turns out the IETF tools are useful to us.  I understand there will be a bof on this subject Friday morning in Anaheim.  The agenda of the BoF is focused on wg chairs.  However, there will be an opportunity for the RG chairs to provide input slightly later.

--aaron

--------------020408030802080903020304-- --------------080000080400050609010500 Content-Type: text/plain; name="Attached Message Part" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Attached Message Part" _______________________________________________ IRSG mailing list IRSG@mailman.isi.edu http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/irsg --------------080000080400050609010500-- From stpeter@stpeter.im Tue Feb 23 15:08:28 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E4CE28C349 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:08:28 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.594 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.594 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.005, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rk0QePKYzdyr for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:08:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from stpeter.im (stpeter.im [207.210.219.233]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE87B28C111 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:08:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from dhcp-64-101-72-201.cisco.com (dhcp-64-101-72-201.cisco.com [64.101.72.201]) (Authenticated sender: stpeter) by stpeter.im (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id F402B40332 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:10:30 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <4B846066.8040905@stpeter.im> Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:10:30 -0700 From: Peter Saint-Andre User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; en-US; rv:1.9.1.7) Gecko/20100111 Thunderbird/3.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Enigmail-Version: 1.0.1 OpenPGP: url=http://www.saint-andre.com/me/stpeter.asc Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="------------ms080107080200020102000705" Subject: [Tools-discuss] flaky wiki? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 23:08:28 -0000 This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms080107080200020102000705 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The Trac wiki seems flaky -- I make edits but they don't appear, etc. Perhaps this is a browser caching issue (because Trac uses HTTP GET) but I don't recall seeing this behavior before. Just wondering. :) Peter --=20 Peter Saint-Andre https://stpeter.im/ --------------ms080107080200020102000705 Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIWnDCC B1cwggY/oAMCAQICAVUwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwgYwxCzAJBgNVBAYTAklMMRYwFAYDVQQK Ew1TdGFydENvbSBMdGQuMSswKQYDVQQLEyJTZWN1cmUgRGlnaXRhbCBDZXJ0aWZpY2F0ZSBT aWduaW5nMTgwNgYDVQQDEy9TdGFydENvbSBDbGFzcyAzIFByaW1hcnkgSW50ZXJtZWRpYXRl IENsaWVudCBDQTAeFw0wOTA3MDYwMDAwMDFaFw0xMDA3MDYyMzU5NTlaMIHCMQswCQYDVQQG EwJVUzERMA8GA1UECBMIQ29sb3JhZG8xDzANBgNVBAcTBkRlbnZlcjEiMCAGA1UEChMZWE1Q UCBTdGFuZGFyZHMgRm91bmRhdGlvbjEsMCoGA1UECxMjU3RhcnRDb20gVHJ1c3RlZCBDZXJ0 aWZpY2F0ZSBNZW1iZXIxGjAYBgNVBAMTEVBldGVyIFNhaW50LUFuZHJlMSEwHwYJKoZIhvcN AQkBFhJzdHBldGVyQHN0cGV0ZXIuaW0wggEiMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBAQUAA4IBDwAwggEKAoIB 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--------------ms080107080200020102000705-- From henrik@levkowetz.com Tue Feb 23 16:58:26 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED8A328C38D for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:58:25 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VHfEFbDZH430 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:58:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from merlot.tools.ietf.org (merlot.tools.ietf.org [IPv6:2a01:3f0:0:31:214:22ff:fe21:bb]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB70D28C210 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:58:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from h-79-136-5-155.na.cust.bahnhof.se ([79.136.5.155]:63430) by merlot.tools.ietf.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Nk5bz-0004Mg-F6; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 02:00:23 +0100 Message-ID: <4B847A26.3050704@levkowetz.com> Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 02:00:22 +0100 From: Henrik Levkowetz User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; en-US; rv:1.9.1.7) Gecko/20100111 Thunderbird/3.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Peter Saint-Andre References: <4B846066.8040905@stpeter.im> In-Reply-To: <4B846066.8040905@stpeter.im> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 79.136.5.155 X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: stpeter@stpeter.im, tools-discuss@ietf.org, henrik-sent@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1 (built Sat, 01 Aug 2009 12:09:26 +0000) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on merlot.tools.ietf.org) Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] flaky wiki? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 00:58:26 -0000 Hi Peter, On 2010-02-24 00:10 Peter Saint-Andre said the following: > The Trac wiki seems flaky -- I make edits but they don't appear, etc. > Perhaps this is a browser caching issue (because Trac uses HTTP GET) but > I don't recall seeing this behavior before. > > Just wondering. :) URL please? This doesn't sound like something I recognize, but with 134 instances of Trac running on the tools servers, it makes it easier to search the logs and do some testing if you can indicate where you had problems... Best, Henrik From stpeter@stpeter.im Tue Feb 23 17:42:42 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FFDB28C37B for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 17:42:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.586 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.586 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.014, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QDO9vHNLqfHU for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 17:42:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from stpeter.im (stpeter.im [207.210.219.233]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DD2028C3E2 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 17:42:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from squire.local (dsl-140-211.dynamic-dsl.frii.net [216.17.140.211]) (Authenticated sender: stpeter) by stpeter.im (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6760B40126; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 18:44:44 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <4B848482.5050603@stpeter.im> Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 18:44:34 -0700 From: Peter Saint-Andre User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; en-US; rv:1.9.1.7) Gecko/20100111 Thunderbird/3.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Henrik Levkowetz References: <4B846066.8040905@stpeter.im> <4B847A26.3050704@levkowetz.com> In-Reply-To: <4B847A26.3050704@levkowetz.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.0.1 OpenPGP: url=http://www.saint-andre.com/me/stpeter.asc Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="------------ms030109040805050605010701" Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] flaky wiki? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 01:42:42 -0000 This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms030109040805050605010701 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2/23/10 6:00 PM, Henrik Levkowetz wrote: > Hi Peter, >=20 > On 2010-02-24 00:10 Peter Saint-Andre said the following: >> The Trac wiki seems flaky -- I make edits but they don't appear, etc. >> Perhaps this is a browser caching issue (because Trac uses HTTP GET) b= ut >> I don't recall seeing this behavior before. >> >> Just wondering. :) >=20 > URL please? This doesn't sound like something I recognize, but with > 134 instances of Trac running on the tools servers, it makes it easier > to search the logs and do some testing if you can indicate where you > had problems... This was reported to me by Jean-Marc Valin, who had problems here: http://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/codec/trac/wiki/CodecMatrix He said that he would edit the page and then the text that he added did not show up in the editing interface after he saved his changes. I ran into a similar problem on the same wiki, but for me the changes didn't show up on the rendered page. If I force-reloaded the page, it was fine. Quite possibly a caching issue in a particular browser (I'm using FF 3.5.7 on OS X 10.5.8, not sure about Jean-Marc). I'd be happy to test further. I'm sure that tools-discuss is not the best place to report such issues, perhaps webmaster@tools.ietf.org is better? 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--------------ms030109040805050605010701-- From henrik@levkowetz.com Wed Feb 24 05:51:22 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41F9C3A7CA3 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 05:51:22 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2Y3mSYoDA4ks for ; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 05:51:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from merlot.tools.ietf.org (merlot.tools.ietf.org [IPv6:2a01:3f0:0:31:214:22ff:fe21:bb]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 125FE3A73C7 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 05:51:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from brunello.autonomica.se ([2a01:3f0:1:0:21e:c2ff:fe13:7e3e]:50354 helo=dyn-fg117.sth.netnod.se) by merlot.tools.ietf.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1NkHg1-0001iG-Du; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 14:53:22 +0100 Message-ID: <4B852F50.1090908@levkowetz.com> Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 14:53:20 +0100 From: Henrik Levkowetz User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; en-GB; rv:1.9.1.7) Gecko/20100111 Thunderbird/3.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Peter Saint-Andre References: <4B846066.8040905@stpeter.im> <4B847A26.3050704@levkowetz.com> <4B848482.5050603@stpeter.im> In-Reply-To: <4B848482.5050603@stpeter.im> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.0.1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 2a01:3f0:1:0:21e:c2ff:fe13:7e3e X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: stpeter@stpeter.im, tools-discuss@ietf.org, henrik-sent@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1 (built Sat, 01 Aug 2009 12:09:26 +0000) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on merlot.tools.ietf.org) Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] flaky wiki? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 13:51:22 -0000 Hi Peter, On 2010-02-24 02:44 Peter Saint-Andre said: > > This was reported to me by Jean-Marc Valin, who had problems here: > > http://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/codec/trac/wiki/CodecMatrix Thanks. > He said that he would edit the page and then the text that he added did > not show up in the editing interface after he saved his changes. The server logs show 5 POST operations for this URL; 3 of those have an HTTP 303 code (redirecting to the url without the '?action=edit' arguments) and correspond timewise exactly to the 3 versions listed in the edit log of the page: http://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/codec/trac/wiki/CodecMatrix?action=history The remaining 2 (just before the 3rd change) presumably are previews. Not seeing any other POST actions, I guess that some network problem may have caused the original failed post to not reach the server. I'm still a bit puzzled though, as I don't see any accesses from what I assume is Jean-Marc's IP address until just before the 3rd edit. But maybe he did the first attempt from a different address... > I ran > into a similar problem on the same wiki, but for me the changes didn't > show up on the rendered page. If I force-reloaded the page, it was fine. > Quite possibly a caching issue in a particular browser (I'm using FF > 3.5.7 on OS X 10.5.8, not sure about Jean-Marc). I'd be happy to test > further. I'm using 3.5.8 on OS-X 10.6.2, was using 3.5.7 till just a few days ago, but haven't seen this. It would be good if you would keep your eyes open and let me know the circumstances around any further misbehaviour, though. > I'm sure that tools-discuss is not the best place to report such issues, > perhaps webmaster@tools.ietf.org is better? is good, but this list is also just fine for me. The advantage of is that email to that address lands directly in my inbox and gets immediate attention, while the response latency for list mail will be a bit longer. Best, Henrik From stpeter@stpeter.im Wed Feb 24 16:30:36 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1D6628C292 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:30:36 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.595 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.595 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.004, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SQbdp-wm6Uhl for ; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:30:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from stpeter.im (stpeter.im [207.210.219.233]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5852228C29C for ; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:30:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from dhcp-64-101-72-201.cisco.com (dhcp-64-101-72-201.cisco.com [64.101.72.201]) (Authenticated sender: stpeter) by stpeter.im (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5246C40126; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 17:32:42 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <4B85C529.9030104@stpeter.im> Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 17:32:41 -0700 From: Peter Saint-Andre User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; en-US; rv:1.9.1.7) Gecko/20100111 Thunderbird/3.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Henrik Levkowetz References: <4B846066.8040905@stpeter.im> <4B847A26.3050704@levkowetz.com> <4B848482.5050603@stpeter.im> <4B852F50.1090908@levkowetz.com> In-Reply-To: <4B852F50.1090908@levkowetz.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.0.1 OpenPGP: url=http://www.saint-andre.com/me/stpeter.asc Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="------------ms070608070005050204060509" Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] flaky wiki? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 00:30:36 -0000 This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms070608070005050204060509 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2/24/10 6:53 AM, Henrik Levkowetz wrote: > Hi Peter, >=20 > On 2010-02-24 02:44 Peter Saint-Andre said: >=20 >> >> This was reported to me by Jean-Marc Valin, who had problems here: >> >> http://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/codec/trac/wiki/CodecMatrix >=20 > Thanks. >=20 >> He said that he would edit the page and then the text that he added di= d >> not show up in the editing interface after he saved his changes.=20 >=20 > The server logs show 5 POST operations for this URL; 3 of those have an= > HTTP 303 code (redirecting to the url without the '?action=3Dedit' argu= ments) > and correspond timewise exactly to the 3 versions listed in the edit lo= g > of the page: > http://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/codec/trac/wiki/CodecMatrix?action=3Dhi= story >=20 > The remaining 2 (just before the 3rd change) presumably are previews. >=20 > Not seeing any other POST actions, I guess that some network problem ma= y > have caused the original failed post to not reach the server. I'm stil= l > a bit puzzled though, as I don't see any accesses from what I assume is= > Jean-Marc's IP address until just before the 3rd edit. But maybe he > did the first attempt from a different address... >=20 >> I ran >> into a similar problem on the same wiki, but for me the changes didn't= >> show up on the rendered page. If I force-reloaded the page, it was fin= e. >> Quite possibly a caching issue in a particular browser (I'm using FF >> 3.5.7 on OS X 10.5.8, not sure about Jean-Marc). I'd be happy to test >> further. >=20 > I'm using 3.5.8 on OS-X 10.6.2, was using 3.5.7 till just a few days ag= o, > but haven't seen this. It would be good if you would keep your eyes op= en > and let me know the circumstances around any further misbehaviour, thou= gh. Will do. Thanks for following up. 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