From nobody Mon Sep 1 10:47:22 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0DC11A063F for ; Mon, 1 Sep 2014 10:47:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.748 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.748 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_40=-0.001, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fN01doNAcAng for ; Mon, 1 Sep 2014 10:47:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from proper.com (Hoffman.Proper.COM [207.182.41.81]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1F1C91A0339 for ; Mon, 1 Sep 2014 10:47:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.20.30.90] (142-254-17-22.dsl.dynamic.fusionbroadband.com [142.254.17.22]) (authenticated bits=0) by proper.com (8.14.9/8.14.7) with ESMTP id s81HlGdM049686 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 1 Sep 2014 10:47:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from paul.hoffman@vpnc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: proper.com: Host 142-254-17-22.dsl.dynamic.fusionbroadband.com [142.254.17.22] claimed to be [10.20.30.90] From: Paul Hoffman Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2014 10:47:15 -0700 To: Tools Team Discussion Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tools-discuss/B_Rev6IIkV66uxWZR898ep56aH0 Subject: [Tools-discuss] WG Wiki through subversion? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2014 17:47:21 -0000 Greetings again. I want to create a page for a WG wiki that will involve = some pretty significant table editing. Thus, I want to be able to do = that with my computer's text editor, not editing on the Wiki web page. = Is it possible to put one or more of the pages on the wiki in the WG's = subversion repo? If not, is there some way I can easily do the editing = remotely? --Paul Hoffman= From nobody Mon Sep 1 11:54:16 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C48A1A0340 for ; Mon, 1 Sep 2014 11:54:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6p1pVbpNiAeC for ; Mon, 1 Sep 2014 11:54:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zinfandel.tools.ietf.org (zinfandel.tools.ietf.org [IPv6:2001:1890:123a::1:2a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 46C041A0292 for ; Mon, 1 Sep 2014 11:54:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([::1]:46949 helo=vigonier.tools.ietf.org) by zinfandel.tools.ietf.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82_1-5b7a7c0-XX) (envelope-from ) id 1XOWjy-0007xd-TT; Mon, 01 Sep 2014 11:54:11 -0700 Message-ID: <5404C0D0.7060201@levkowetz.com> Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2014 20:54:08 +0200 From: Henrik Levkowetz User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.9; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paul Hoffman , Tools Team Discussion References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: ::1 X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: paul.hoffman@vpnc.org, tools-discuss@ietf.org, henrik-sent@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on zinfandel.tools.ietf.org); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tools-discuss/vnYVBhAgpQBQ2fCcHb16JdyrWr4 Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] WG Wiki through subversion? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2014 18:54:14 -0000 Hi Paul, On 2014-09-01 19:47 Paul Hoffman said the following: > Greetings again. I want to create a page for a WG wiki that will > involve some pretty significant table editing. Thus, I want to be > able to do that with my computer's text editor, not editing on the > Wiki web page. Right. > Is it possible to put one or more of the pages on the > wiki in the WG's subversion repo? Not as far as I know, no. > If not, is there some way I can easily do the editing remotely? Cut it, paste into editor, edit as desired, then cut and paste to the wiki? Also, if you take advantage of Trac's support for ReStructuredText, you'll have more advanced table support than in the default wiki markup language: http://trac.tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb/wiki/WikiRestructuredText Regards, Henrik From nobody Mon Sep 1 12:11:04 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 158E61A069A for ; Mon, 1 Sep 2014 12:11:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.647 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.647 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id J_abffJbZKAc for ; Mon, 1 Sep 2014 12:11:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from proper.com (Hoffman.Proper.COM [207.182.41.81]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 10D291A0292 for ; Mon, 1 Sep 2014 12:11:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.20.30.90] (142-254-17-22.dsl.dynamic.fusionbroadband.com [142.254.17.22]) (authenticated bits=0) by proper.com (8.14.9/8.14.7) with ESMTP id s81JAv4C057923 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Mon, 1 Sep 2014 12:10:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from paul.hoffman@vpnc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: proper.com: Host 142-254-17-22.dsl.dynamic.fusionbroadband.com [142.254.17.22] claimed to be [10.20.30.90] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) From: Paul Hoffman In-Reply-To: <5404C0D0.7060201@levkowetz.com> Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2014 12:10:56 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <5404C0D0.7060201@levkowetz.com> To: Henrik Levkowetz X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tools-discuss/XqAiLUviAuBlxzd_DvPUkjFaqwU Cc: Tools Team Discussion Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] WG Wiki through subversion? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2014 19:11:02 -0000 On Sep 1, 2014, at 11:54 AM, Henrik Levkowetz = wrote: > Cut it, paste into editor, edit as desired, then cut and paste to the > wiki? That works for once and a while. It does not work well for frequent = updates, which is what I am expecting. > Also, if you take advantage of Trac's support for ReStructuredText, = you'll > have more advanced table support than in the default wiki markup = language: >=20 > http://trac.tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb/wiki/WikiRestructuredText >=20 This looks nice too. However, it will still be painful to edit the file = locally. As a reverse question, is it possible to have a specific page on the = WG's svn repo be served without wrapping it in the HTML goop that seems = to be done automatically? (If none of this is possible, we'll probably just use GitHub, but it = would be nicer to use the IETF Tools.) --Paul Hoffman= From nobody Mon Sep 1 12:15:11 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 022A21A06B2 for ; Mon, 1 Sep 2014 12:14:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XhpADlfpQOvy for ; Mon, 1 Sep 2014 12:14:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zinfandel.tools.ietf.org (zinfandel.tools.ietf.org [IPv6:2001:1890:123a::1:2a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9303B1A06A3 for ; Mon, 1 Sep 2014 12:14:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([::1]:47640 helo=vigonier.tools.ietf.org) by zinfandel.tools.ietf.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82_1-5b7a7c0-XX) (envelope-from ) id 1XOX3w-0004Sa-91; Mon, 01 Sep 2014 12:14:48 -0700 Message-ID: <5404C5A5.7070104@levkowetz.com> Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2014 21:14:45 +0200 From: Henrik Levkowetz User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.9; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paul Hoffman References: <5404C0D0.7060201@levkowetz.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: ::1 X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: paul.hoffman@vpnc.org, tools-discuss@ietf.org, henrik-sent@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on zinfandel.tools.ietf.org); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tools-discuss/e60356nlKqdrFg6MLmJkxrugqs4 Cc: Tools Team Discussion Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] WG Wiki through subversion? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2014 19:14:54 -0000 On 2014-09-01 21:10 Paul Hoffman said the following: > On Sep 1, 2014, at 11:54 AM, Henrik Levkowetz > wrote: > >> Cut it, paste into editor, edit as desired, then cut and paste to >> the wiki? > > That works for once and a while. It does not work well for frequent > updates, which is what I am expecting. Aha. Ok. >> Also, if you take advantage of Trac's support for ReStructuredText, >> you'll have more advanced table support than in the default wiki >> markup language: >> >> http://trac.tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb/wiki/WikiRestructuredText >> > > This looks nice too. However, it will still be painful to edit the > file locally. Ack. > As a reverse question, is it possible to have a specific page on the > WG's svn repo be served without wrapping it in the HTML goop that > seems to be done automatically? Point directly to the repo? Here's an HTML file in the httpbis repo: http://svn.tools.ietf.org/svn/wg/httpbis/draft-ietf-httpbis-method-registrations/latest/draft-ietf-httpbis-method-registrations.html > (If none of this is possible, we'll probably just use GitHub, but it > would be nicer to use the IETF Tools.) Ack. Henrik From nobody Mon Sep 1 15:48:05 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A14A71A0B72 for ; Mon, 1 Sep 2014 15:48:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cDvRxt-hbhm0 for ; Mon, 1 Sep 2014 15:48:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from che.mayfirst.org (che.mayfirst.org [209.234.253.108]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CB9D1A0B09 for ; Mon, 1 Sep 2014 15:48:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.12.134] (ool-6c3a0662.static.optonline.net [108.58.6.98]) by che.mayfirst.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 9FF5EF985; Mon, 1 Sep 2014 18:47:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <5404F797.3080300@fifthhorseman.net> Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2014 18:47:51 -0400 From: Daniel Kahn Gillmor User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Icedove/31.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paul Hoffman , Henrik Levkowetz References: <5404C0D0.7060201@levkowetz.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="9OgWvNeBkUTUAOX3O53uHP0hAHhFsswGG" Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tools-discuss/eK69r502mjBXHsr9xzuDtiT4GT8 Cc: Tools Team Discussion Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] WG Wiki through subversion? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2014 22:48:03 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --9OgWvNeBkUTUAOX3O53uHP0hAHhFsswGG Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 09/01/2014 03:10 PM, Paul Hoffman wrote: > On Sep 1, 2014, at 11:54 AM, Henrik Levkowetz wr= ote: >=20 >> > Cut it, paste into editor, edit as desired, then cut and paste to th= e >> > wiki? > That works for once and a while. It does not work well for frequent upd= ates, which is what I am expecting. I don't know what browser you use, but there is a mozilla extension that is intended to streamline this workflow: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/its-all-text/ A local git-based workflow still has many advantages, of course :/ --dkg --9OgWvNeBkUTUAOX3O53uHP0hAHhFsswGG Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1 iQJ8BAEBCgBmBQJUBPeXXxSAAAAAAC4AKGlzc3Vlci1mcHJAbm90YXRpb25zLm9w ZW5wZ3AuZmlmdGhob3JzZW1hbi5uZXRFQjk2OTEyODdBN0FEREUzNzU3RDkxMUVB NTI0MDFCMTFCRkRGQTVDAAoJEKUkAbEb/fpc2G0QALjPMrfrx4RPJQjOmQuwzV4a s0pfDqTtz3BsZquZitmI/ZFi36wX1POa/aX9+p6QyvaTTXaDnuA9AYfccJG/OuJw 7r+h1mLkM03vRXPbSv84Cx5zOxpfXGyHDk+GyTtKAN63I+7wQnXqCupasH41q/f4 KVvpL/pX3YwqtikyyUcwrO8Mgs5SqzmgWFqK6k2BRY91DSdOGExgEGkMP7FfAgiL zHJZ5AQO8+1ZM/QcUICOQGe9gtaOaIsBivdI3AMC09EOgxI/x5Q4rg4haPeKCIkd Qgm/jq9Y2YLoc7Z7GDlZfM/6VbOLDoKHKMyDEHxndyyJf5kYKMZTOSA33hsUHjg+ 8C3fxpGZM+R2/IpG233fssUw04JYoCTizQF/a/rqaDCvl8iYya9zarmYwsE5+R05 jYEDeUNPI+YsfOJh8NfAyZzFwUY3dIuCceHWLYXMHYdX6N1b6vreekcLnLxXICV9 OypQoENhCXZdUSUp/ygh7hJg7rnNWWNslNEZMi5jR/fLS5HTi/tLWRaMpWR+gV+F E750NECuVd1Eq7Yujv2RDSsxsrJhfyViEPtGyQwb7aQ6hCZiipLBYTKHsfSMgEgU oIveSAZ9ViqVPbc1FCMggfIjEZycsReIpueHHfIpyv1kBEHzYMhO2a0oQ2lDKvKR UeO86ovpz4IP1b+Wobyb =8E+b -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --9OgWvNeBkUTUAOX3O53uHP0hAHhFsswGG-- From nobody Mon Sep 1 15:48:06 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43E551A0B0C for ; Mon, 1 Sep 2014 15:48:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id u8kP9WwTj9mt for ; Mon, 1 Sep 2014 15:48:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from che.mayfirst.org (che.mayfirst.org [209.234.253.108]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8273D1A0B05 for ; Mon, 1 Sep 2014 15:48:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.12.134] (ool-6c3a0662.static.optonline.net [108.58.6.98]) by che.mayfirst.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4DB1CF984; Mon, 1 Sep 2014 18:47:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <5404F791.3090106@fifthhorseman.net> Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2014 18:47:45 -0400 From: Daniel Kahn Gillmor User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Icedove/31.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paul Hoffman , Henrik Levkowetz References: <5404C0D0.7060201@levkowetz.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="0Ilx9lh1EtpIACVfvB8NqXe0h8rrKFMwu" Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tools-discuss/zzspyf7-tjvIsEIXJI12o_gyZs0 Cc: Tools Team Discussion Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] WG Wiki through subversion? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2014 22:48:03 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --0Ilx9lh1EtpIACVfvB8NqXe0h8rrKFMwu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 09/01/2014 03:10 PM, Paul Hoffman wrote: > On Sep 1, 2014, at 11:54 AM, Henrik Levkowetz wr= ote: >=20 >> > Cut it, paste into editor, edit as desired, then cut and paste to th= e >> > wiki? > That works for once and a while. It does not work well for frequent upd= ates, which is what I am expecting. I don't know what browser you use, but there is a mozilla extension that is intended to streamline this workflow: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/its-all-text/ A local git-based workflow still has many advantages, of course :/ --dkg --0Ilx9lh1EtpIACVfvB8NqXe0h8rrKFMwu Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1 iQJ8BAEBCgBmBQJUBPeRXxSAAAAAAC4AKGlzc3Vlci1mcHJAbm90YXRpb25zLm9w ZW5wZ3AuZmlmdGhob3JzZW1hbi5uZXRFQjk2OTEyODdBN0FEREUzNzU3RDkxMUVB NTI0MDFCMTFCRkRGQTVDAAoJEKUkAbEb/fpc5P8QANr98c6m0dSqdG5QCx3N/rBP bFCym/RT0V4OGX72gfv+ihIQp0jEiaaKJ4mZBH9UucOoV4UHPDATRilhg4qtseu6 xKrGNdfeQ1gjcW5ZFAcfgKtueqdUVmLmrTZW7ZDNFQBdJV21OKHytQBx/29RlDdD GUryISiOT+WgDFOvDrlLtZXNUVF8VhevvOUNUfbN8SJsxohctx3xioZSioAhHIkr EVtr2OaV20w9kNvDTHifUIccbqloPpp2NPHA/ziAt2kRvWsuYDU5VzCFFaT1QwV7 bVE5a7DMLOZ7/J76W/Te9xYagbx+7pslnyVzWi6YFxNPMpEYlofx9aNTWSa9/HHX oY5UO9gjJHyWRoLi2Lk3fJ/kHPrZLhk/kqZSOC18TD/koPrkmJTwVSL/l91ZqCmI RWcl69+MtYMK/7vxP/+QYjqKnO4vrzf0jH/z83D2OyYKj2DFDPdYDIcOZpxkoUWF yBKJIa+24TOrwg5VM2yukC1AHDZO/3Og21WEu0KqtFqVIXV/lahr78/hyUxn4PGD sOohOIPQzW07xdjfNTqmr38qkUp0tZIOLU6707LW6c03vmn5SZ4M8KkmzpuEXmc9 EDPI35fbpK4hrJ2TG4veGM8trsMhaU3qUm0nGFfxEanCRheuTED6eLfPnhdvehyn yNZwSYeu1gRL+f9d+ldn =g8u2 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --0Ilx9lh1EtpIACVfvB8NqXe0h8rrKFMwu-- From nobody Tue Sep 2 09:28:16 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19B151A0329 for ; Tue, 2 Sep 2014 09:28:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.647 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.647 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ak33DptzQ6wN for ; Tue, 2 Sep 2014 09:28:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from proper.com (Hoffman.Proper.COM [207.182.41.81]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 68D0E1A00FE for ; Tue, 2 Sep 2014 09:28:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.20.30.90] (142-254-17-22.dsl.dynamic.fusionbroadband.com [142.254.17.22]) (authenticated bits=0) by proper.com (8.14.9/8.14.7) with ESMTP id s82GS9aT015930 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 2 Sep 2014 09:28:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from paul.hoffman@vpnc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: proper.com: Host 142-254-17-22.dsl.dynamic.fusionbroadband.com [142.254.17.22] claimed to be [10.20.30.90] From: Paul Hoffman Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <90E7018C-133F-408F-84CA-E21FD9556DCC@vpnc.org> Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2014 09:28:07 -0700 To: Tools Team Discussion Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tools-discuss/iZbi2G3rcGts0M_sxo01QrReBag Subject: [Tools-discuss] https: redirects to http: for tools.ietf.org? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2014 16:28:14 -0000 Greetings again. I am about to create a tool that is writing a bunch of = URIs for tools.ietf.org. I note that https: URLs redirect to http:. Is = that a temporary glitch? Is the idea of having the tools site running = TLS imminent, or longer-term? --Paul Hoffman= From nobody Tue Sep 2 09:35:44 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 696871A02B9 for ; Tue, 2 Sep 2014 09:35:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wNU9Bft6HCIO for ; Tue, 2 Sep 2014 09:35:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from che.mayfirst.org (che.mayfirst.org [209.234.253.108]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B3741A0188 for ; Tue, 2 Sep 2014 09:35:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.70.10.54] (unknown [38.109.115.130]) by che.mayfirst.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 429F8F984; Tue, 2 Sep 2014 12:35:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <5405F1C6.3080007@fifthhorseman.net> Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2014 12:35:18 -0400 From: Daniel Kahn Gillmor User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Icedove/31.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paul Hoffman , Tools Team Discussion References: <90E7018C-133F-408F-84CA-E21FD9556DCC@vpnc.org> In-Reply-To: <90E7018C-133F-408F-84CA-E21FD9556DCC@vpnc.org> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="ItXx7VIvoWCfWcxgFdhLCTMP6nLKJgNqS" Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tools-discuss/Ud2tFBkMn5iYEJkjn9d2pjdLFaI Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] https: redirects to http: for tools.ietf.org? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2014 16:35:43 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --ItXx7VIvoWCfWcxgFdhLCTMP6nLKJgNqS Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 09/02/2014 12:28 PM, Paul Hoffman wrote: > Greetings again. I am about to create a tool that is writing a bunch of= URIs for tools.ietf.org. I note that https: URLs redirect to http:. Is t= hat a temporary glitch? Is the idea of having the tools site running TLS = imminent, or longer-term? I'm not seeing any redirection there. Can you give an example of what URL is giving you a redirection? here's the non-redirected fetch for me: 0 dkg@alice:/tmp/cdtemp.GivL4D$ wget https://tools.ietf.org --2014-09-02 12:34:09-- https://tools.ietf.org/ Resolving tools.ietf.org (tools.ietf.org)... 209.208.19.222, 64.170.98.42, 2001:1890:123a::1:2a Connecting to tools.ietf.org (tools.ietf.org)|209.208.19.222|:443... connected. HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 200 OK Length: unspecified [text/html] Saving to: =E2=80=98index.html=E2=80=99 [ <=3D> ] 92,105 526KB/s in 0.2s 2014-09-02 12:34:09 (526 KB/s) - =E2=80=98index.html=E2=80=99 saved [9210= 5] 0 dkg@alice:/tmp/cdtemp.GivL4D$ --dkg --ItXx7VIvoWCfWcxgFdhLCTMP6nLKJgNqS Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1 iQJ8BAEBCgBmBQJUBfHGXxSAAAAAAC4AKGlzc3Vlci1mcHJAbm90YXRpb25zLm9w ZW5wZ3AuZmlmdGhob3JzZW1hbi5uZXRFQjk2OTEyODdBN0FEREUzNzU3RDkxMUVB NTI0MDFCMTFCRkRGQTVDAAoJEKUkAbEb/fpckfkP+wX2FlfKIHnra0kNBdEPPZKU dRAyHf7surbXPoeQM8HptPeO5uBIc3gYxS8X43eteHoy5EuLBSZD2qDcwFQxWSb6 3O0YSEuDCtnj7Xe8zig8YCHd8bZg4OPasHEJT9Ca2KlQkhSNIGySCI2E5aPqzNtv XRTM/t29tf7adnDpAJoOCt5421SuF/z5x7qakk2XNabAZRvH8WSyahOj10aVoXsu LLbFppPEUxJtdeDXE0BhDfa508qTk3GHYlcuHG7EdElfOsap0bFxMiPbfRiCgLQe GPDh0fOBxWn5LDFyhwRs+DVptM6ufXg1h8d9JGDs9ByzlmzE1MU6PWOojsPWJQS+ 6HeEJor+6Jun4WVcJ4umEpLEEIkIGduSn/ar4XD/dXRTuwrytyZO/RsBMbdMUGhn BPAo2TFCANXGoQ11wBajH+nyA1BuTPRphHPMpsTudrThdMD/IMWrbsqYoWmSBqiM U6BMAl0EDo9fzYvYolfvSg3KW0m45MbMvk2NnLYJdOmtLdphlxFaTfckLLth4v6X /CDSIp9sG7t+/myL8poUzrhCLrayaaTOqJWwMbG0Ez4oLIoEUb9RS+mCazQo1YIA b6bme3/x413S/Tf7KUyotZG0c26rZQNU2SU6LZalV+qHKYW+xUuRM6CTYOS9n2wJ mZU635EFJiPXL9Y8q9E2 =Q7Yc -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --ItXx7VIvoWCfWcxgFdhLCTMP6nLKJgNqS-- From nobody Tue Sep 2 09:42:21 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D68781A045B for ; Tue, 2 Sep 2014 09:42:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.647 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.647 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FDDfDSufjG5h for ; Tue, 2 Sep 2014 09:42:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from proper.com (Hoffman.Proper.COM [207.182.41.81]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A9B071A0412 for ; Tue, 2 Sep 2014 09:42:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.20.30.90] (142-254-17-22.dsl.dynamic.fusionbroadband.com [142.254.17.22]) (authenticated bits=0) by proper.com (8.14.9/8.14.7) with ESMTP id s82Gg9Xa016412 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Tue, 2 Sep 2014 09:42:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from paul.hoffman@vpnc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: proper.com: Host 142-254-17-22.dsl.dynamic.fusionbroadband.com [142.254.17.22] claimed to be [10.20.30.90] Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_F60B91BB-207D-4135-8EE8-4277AE9F92A4"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) From: Paul Hoffman In-Reply-To: <5405F1C6.3080007@fifthhorseman.net> Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2014 09:42:04 -0700 Message-Id: References: <90E7018C-133F-408F-84CA-E21FD9556DCC@vpnc.org> <5405F1C6.3080007@fifthhorseman.net> To: Daniel Kahn Gillmor X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tools-discuss/a49i9qoep6yDOOk22AS2HtRdz2Q Cc: Tools Team Discussion Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] https: redirects to http: for tools.ietf.org? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2014 16:42:20 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_F60B91BB-207D-4135-8EE8-4277AE9F92A4 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Sep 2, 2014, at 9:35 AM, Daniel Kahn Gillmor = wrote: > I'm not seeing any redirection there. All of the redirections that I see are from https: to http:. For = example, try https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dnsop-edns-chain-query That redirects to http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dnsop-edns-chain-query-00 --Paul Hoffman --Apple-Mail=_F60B91BB-207D-4135-8EE8-4277AE9F92A4 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJUBfNgAAoJEJz/fXByZmLZmtAH/AliMMdZMqSCyHtPs8EUsRmV zNKCjQly06W6F46kS5/szx1LTy9MgB+Zt0rsTzmA06Q2HVb/mdDve4hh84Si/LaK fVCB4SOp9clpoGeRKzbFwpNIjzqnMMp/4KazYxQ9YCVWjleYdEOWcLSGGB8wtlh/ h59oJZ16ZUSpMvUgepIlhOBf8MYYq6+j9rS0NmS/4xodvQC4A6MhyYfSzUypOh2I AzLPGD0ApP1kW03K5yayP/rHkWNLyRILQj37bndKevkk7y6PdbiKC+YXKs3fiHEn eFOVrls+IJD7LwIwY4y+5/Ktn1GXmdkG4X/Qp6rOQCXnmeFS2bqH3TZqRAHtakQ= =06LE -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_F60B91BB-207D-4135-8EE8-4277AE9F92A4-- From nobody Tue Sep 2 10:13:22 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AEAB31A0700 for ; Tue, 2 Sep 2014 10:13:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kX8rLYBNpGWz for ; Tue, 2 Sep 2014 10:13:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from che.mayfirst.org (che.mayfirst.org [209.234.253.108]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CD831A0860 for ; Tue, 2 Sep 2014 10:13:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.70.10.54] (unknown [38.109.115.130]) by che.mayfirst.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E92FDF984; Tue, 2 Sep 2014 13:13:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <5405FA93.4000000@fifthhorseman.net> Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2014 13:12:51 -0400 From: Daniel Kahn Gillmor User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Icedove/31.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paul Hoffman References: <90E7018C-133F-408F-84CA-E21FD9556DCC@vpnc.org> <5405F1C6.3080007@fifthhorseman.net> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="HXcCCjvxf0vLaggVPxEkeM7Iu4Ep0J5hj" Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tools-discuss/zVfQCKIZKbTGxftT7IcrT-lLfxA Cc: Tools Team Discussion Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] https: redirects to http: for tools.ietf.org? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2014 17:13:18 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --HXcCCjvxf0vLaggVPxEkeM7Iu4Ep0J5hj Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 09/02/2014 12:42 PM, Paul Hoffman wrote: > On Sep 2, 2014, at 9:35 AM, Daniel Kahn Gillmor = wrote: >=20 >> I'm not seeing any redirection there. >=20 > All of the redirections that I see are from https: to http:. For exampl= e, try > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dnsop-edns-chain-query > That redirects to > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dnsop-edns-chain-query-00 aha, it's the non-exact redirects that are supplying the http:// in the Location response. the target page is *also* available under https, but the 302 redirect doesn't point that way. So requesting a draft name without the version suffix, or just a substring of the draft name produces the full URL. Probably, the Location response should be absolute , or at least schema-less. The latest spec for the Location header [0] looks like either of these structures should be acceptable: [0] https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7231#section-7.1.2 I don't know where the code is for generating these redirects, but i'd be happy to take a look at it if someone can point me to it. thanks for catching this, Paul. I'm using https-everywhere in my main browser, so it all just stays https for me. --dkg --HXcCCjvxf0vLaggVPxEkeM7Iu4Ep0J5hj Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1 iQJ8BAEBCgBmBQJUBfqTXxSAAAAAAC4AKGlzc3Vlci1mcHJAbm90YXRpb25zLm9w ZW5wZ3AuZmlmdGhob3JzZW1hbi5uZXRFQjk2OTEyODdBN0FEREUzNzU3RDkxMUVB NTI0MDFCMTFCRkRGQTVDAAoJEKUkAbEb/fpcSMwQAJs/u0+qf01q14YrO8iPGvno muehKK2lTQ1cYa5/+242TIunOGjxe7jbdHyPX17MIBoyjEff0stfMAkAu9h/NRws dsb2FHU8w0CeTduOMTp78aWTxKtXsyGbHQmCh5HuBG7SJKDcIu9GQfOjBNlfIXgw lS3U6wietN/4wmwmSV7zkfNhHl0VH3VIH7oBWcTeq8RtUCGqgv+UksHixEHZ9BzE Y6MPh0/rpzJ9c4F0+CBGK0GgHY6BTS9A2ShdIq5ChT7Vpp4TlndF48Mz8G67HxDU EAEuOl7Aa9RYTZ85DiAmirnqQUEcrOHpCe3NCV5DM7pEy5RGZs8C68fBRANP/bI2 ZkCFyVXXp9wpQwErbe6D19y7S4nvCOv590qTBviKKW9pWSzqbsgUas7MLVzMNJ2P 604Lgb6jg9cci6IrR46LhaVEz3I8lWvtWFf1ugmhru6awkXHm+N4gl8oEPyZJN64 j/v9yh5ppRs+hyYw9vdeRdammihxTRnDzp81UC8Gyq5YCkNTpyMaEhm5cbJkrXa/ qI6I4KaIg+Szszw+Y3lnj3P5A+6DQlyBn95VCEXkPP0Aeh3UCJelXxXEB7g4h1au eg6P9g/sBHVNnOzxHTH/aasIxui9RAdjEySCzoQtrCfb8x2vylJPFvGjoGyEMGvd JCDNlJBis1kpk+rzCERR =ju4E -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --HXcCCjvxf0vLaggVPxEkeM7Iu4Ep0J5hj-- From nobody Tue Sep 2 10:15:50 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 122611A0700 for ; Tue, 2 Sep 2014 10:15:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id D47eFLBtW8Vo for ; Tue, 2 Sep 2014 10:15:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zinfandel.tools.ietf.org (zinfandel.tools.ietf.org [IPv6:2001:1890:123a::1:2a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3D5DE1A0676 for ; Tue, 2 Sep 2014 10:15:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([::1]:38921 helo=vigonier.tools.ietf.org) by zinfandel.tools.ietf.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82_1-5b7a7c0-XX) (envelope-from ) id 1XOrgI-00086c-Kv; Tue, 02 Sep 2014 10:15:47 -0700 Message-ID: <5405FB3F.2010605@levkowetz.com> Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2014 19:15:43 +0200 From: Henrik Levkowetz User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.9; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paul Hoffman , Tools Team Discussion References: <90E7018C-133F-408F-84CA-E21FD9556DCC@vpnc.org> In-Reply-To: <90E7018C-133F-408F-84CA-E21FD9556DCC@vpnc.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: ::1 X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: paul.hoffman@vpnc.org, tools-discuss@ietf.org, henrik-sent@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on zinfandel.tools.ietf.org); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tools-discuss/JRisKy90d9r_QnChT0SvUHDjbX4 Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] https: redirects to http: for tools.ietf.org? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2014 17:15:49 -0000 Hi Paul, On 2014-09-02 18:28 Paul Hoffman said the following: > Greetings again. I am about to create a tool that is writing a bunch > of URIs for tools.ietf.org. I note that https: URLs redirect to > http:. Examples? > Is that a temporary glitch? Is the idea of having the tools > site running TLS imminent, or longer-term? Tools in general is capable of using TLS, and has been so for years. I need specifics on where you see something else. Regards, Henrik From nobody Tue Sep 2 10:18:04 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C2CF1A0676 for ; Tue, 2 Sep 2014 10:18:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.647 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.647 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JZKqD820O5Qd for ; Tue, 2 Sep 2014 10:18:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from proper.com (Hoffman.Proper.COM [207.182.41.81]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2DCEA1A0438 for ; Tue, 2 Sep 2014 10:18:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.20.30.90] (142-254-17-22.dsl.dynamic.fusionbroadband.com [142.254.17.22]) (authenticated bits=0) by proper.com (8.14.9/8.14.7) with ESMTP id s82HHxmO018621 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Tue, 2 Sep 2014 10:18:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from paul.hoffman@vpnc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: proper.com: Host 142-254-17-22.dsl.dynamic.fusionbroadband.com [142.254.17.22] claimed to be [10.20.30.90] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) From: Paul Hoffman In-Reply-To: <5405FB3F.2010605@levkowetz.com> Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2014 10:17:58 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <16B91CB3-6C93-4127-89BB-F57CB1477648@vpnc.org> References: <90E7018C-133F-408F-84CA-E21FD9556DCC@vpnc.org> <5405FB3F.2010605@levkowetz.com> To: Henrik Levkowetz X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tools-discuss/MbyLnoYgUvTiU1Va9c-NaR3hTow Cc: Tools Team Discussion Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] https: redirects to http: for tools.ietf.org? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2014 17:18:03 -0000 On Sep 2, 2014, at 10:15 AM, Henrik Levkowetz = wrote: > Hi Paul, >=20 > On 2014-09-02 18:28 Paul Hoffman said the following: >> Greetings again. I am about to create a tool that is writing a bunch >> of URIs for tools.ietf.org. I note that https: URLs redirect to >> http:. >=20 > Examples? >=20 >> Is that a temporary glitch? Is the idea of having the tools >> site running TLS imminent, or longer-term? >=20 > Tools in general is capable of using TLS, and has been so for years. = I need > specifics on where you see something else. See my message from about a half an hour ago. All the redirects for the = drafts (at least) redirect to http:. --Paul Hoffman= From nobody Tue Sep 2 10:34:00 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3EFFF1A87BC for ; Tue, 2 Sep 2014 10:33:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ffHu3hvJ2naz for ; Tue, 2 Sep 2014 10:33:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zinfandel.tools.ietf.org (zinfandel.tools.ietf.org [IPv6:2001:1890:123a::1:2a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5217F1A87BB for ; Tue, 2 Sep 2014 10:33:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([::1]:39925 helo=vigonier.tools.ietf.org) by zinfandel.tools.ietf.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82_1-5b7a7c0-XX) (envelope-from ) id 1XOrxt-0000hi-Qx; Tue, 02 Sep 2014 10:33:58 -0700 Message-ID: <5405FF82.3030402@levkowetz.com> Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2014 19:33:54 +0200 From: Henrik Levkowetz User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.9; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paul Hoffman References: <90E7018C-133F-408F-84CA-E21FD9556DCC@vpnc.org> <5405FB3F.2010605@levkowetz.com> <16B91CB3-6C93-4127-89BB-F57CB1477648@vpnc.org> In-Reply-To: <16B91CB3-6C93-4127-89BB-F57CB1477648@vpnc.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: ::1 X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: paul.hoffman@vpnc.org, tools-discuss@ietf.org, henrik-sent@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on zinfandel.tools.ietf.org); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tools-discuss/AHIe-PA_k-F2Smboyo29T8i7b1g Cc: Tools Team Discussion Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] https: redirects to http: for tools.ietf.org? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2014 17:33:59 -0000 On 2014-09-02 19:17 Paul Hoffman said the following: > On Sep 2, 2014, at 10:15 AM, Henrik Levkowetz wrote: > >> Hi Paul, >> >> On 2014-09-02 18:28 Paul Hoffman said the following: >>> Greetings again. I am about to create a tool that is writing a bunch >>> of URIs for tools.ietf.org. I note that https: URLs redirect to >>> http:. >> >> Examples? >> >>> Is that a temporary glitch? Is the idea of having the tools >>> site running TLS imminent, or longer-term? >> >> Tools in general is capable of using TLS, and has been so for years. I need >> specifics on where you see something else. > > See my message from about a half an hour ago. All the redirects for > the drafts (at least) redirect to http:. No, Paul, that's too great a generalization. I can't work with that. I'm sure that when you say 'All the redirect for drafts' you have something quite specific in mind, but if I'm going to guess that it's (for example) redirects related to wiki expansions of terms starting with draft-, or redirects from tools.ietf.org/id/hoffman to a list of all *-hoffman-* drafts, and then start running around trying to find out *which* of all the redirect mechanisms I've built over the years that needs attention, then I'm going to loose too much time. Your response to Daniel, with a specific example, was more helpful. Have you seen any _other_ redirects than from a version-less tools.ietf.org/html/draft-foo URL to a version-specific tools.ietf.org/html/draft-foo-NN URL which exhibits this behaviour? Henrik From nobody Tue Sep 2 10:36:23 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F7C41A87D9 for ; Tue, 2 Sep 2014 10:36:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ILG2Q1t003A0 for ; Tue, 2 Sep 2014 10:36:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zinfandel.tools.ietf.org (zinfandel.tools.ietf.org [IPv6:2001:1890:123a::1:2a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 129021A87E3 for ; Tue, 2 Sep 2014 10:36:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([::1]:40008 helo=vigonier.tools.ietf.org) by zinfandel.tools.ietf.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82_1-5b7a7c0-XX) (envelope-from ) id 1XOs0C-0001NH-7t; Tue, 02 Sep 2014 10:36:20 -0700 Message-ID: <54060011.5030000@levkowetz.com> Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2014 19:36:17 +0200 From: Henrik Levkowetz User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.9; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Daniel Kahn Gillmor , Paul Hoffman References: <90E7018C-133F-408F-84CA-E21FD9556DCC@vpnc.org> <5405F1C6.3080007@fifthhorseman.net> <5405FA93.4000000@fifthhorseman.net> In-Reply-To: <5405FA93.4000000@fifthhorseman.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: ::1 X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: dkg@fifthhorseman.net, paul.hoffman@vpnc.org, tools-discuss@ietf.org, henrik-sent@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on zinfandel.tools.ietf.org); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tools-discuss/mHUQ6Ezh_Q0QfMub-Dd7W96SmCI Cc: Tools Team Discussion Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] https: redirects to http: for tools.ietf.org? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2014 17:36:22 -0000 Hi DKG, On 2014-09-02 19:12 Daniel Kahn Gillmor said the following: > On 09/02/2014 12:42 PM, Paul Hoffman wrote: >> On Sep 2, 2014, at 9:35 AM, Daniel Kahn Gillmor wrote: >> >>> I'm not seeing any redirection there. >> >> All of the redirections that I see are from https: to http:. For example, try >> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dnsop-edns-chain-query >> That redirects to >> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dnsop-edns-chain-query-00 > > aha, it's the non-exact redirects that are supplying the http:// in the > Location response. the target page is *also* available under https, but > the 302 redirect doesn't point that way. > > So requesting a draft name without the version suffix, or just a > substring of the draft name produces the full URL. Probably, the > Location response should be absolute , or at least schema-less. I've made these redirect explicitly use https: now. > The latest spec for the Location header [0] looks like either of these > structures should be acceptable: > > [0] https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7231#section-7.1.2 > > I don't know where the code is for generating these redirects, but i'd > be happy to take a look at it if someone can point me to it. In this case, the code was in the apache 404 handler for the /html/ expansions. Thanks for the offer. Fixed now. Best regards, Henrik From nobody Tue Sep 2 10:55:11 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99B201A039B for ; Tue, 2 Sep 2014 10:55:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.647 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.647 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JQPcMXtMHOJI for ; Tue, 2 Sep 2014 10:55:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from proper.com (Hoffman.Proper.COM [207.182.41.81]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1AA7E1A029F for ; Tue, 2 Sep 2014 10:55:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.20.30.90] (142-254-17-22.dsl.dynamic.fusionbroadband.com [142.254.17.22]) (authenticated bits=0) by proper.com (8.14.9/8.14.7) with ESMTP id s82Ht4I5022442 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Tue, 2 Sep 2014 10:55:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from paul.hoffman@vpnc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: proper.com: Host 142-254-17-22.dsl.dynamic.fusionbroadband.com [142.254.17.22] claimed to be [10.20.30.90] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) From: Paul Hoffman In-Reply-To: <54060011.5030000@levkowetz.com> Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2014 10:55:02 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <29A80728-6DD5-4491-A234-1379D6146694@vpnc.org> References: <90E7018C-133F-408F-84CA-E21FD9556DCC@vpnc.org> <5405F1C6.3080007@fifthhorseman.net> <5405FA93.4000000@fifthhorseman.net> <54060011.5030000@levkowetz.com> To: Henrik Levkowetz X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tools-discuss/jHIFVH6GO1lRP3k6EA7oV6-VJnY Cc: Tools Team Discussion Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] https: redirects to http: for tools.ietf.org? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2014 17:55:08 -0000 On Sep 2, 2014, at 10:36 AM, Henrik Levkowetz = wrote: > I've made these redirect explicitly use https: now. Many thanks for the quick response! I'll use https: in the new thing I'm = writing. And, this made me realize that my IETF CLI tool = (http://svn.tools.ietf.org/svn/tools/ietf-cli/) still had http: URIs in = it; those have now all been updated. --Paul Hoffman= From nobody Tue Sep 2 11:50:36 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59F0A1A8863 for ; Tue, 2 Sep 2014 11:50:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lqaS3cV-9WjX for ; Tue, 2 Sep 2014 11:50:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pa0-f45.google.com (mail-pa0-f45.google.com [209.85.220.45]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AEEE51A885E for ; Tue, 2 Sep 2014 11:50:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pa0-f45.google.com with SMTP id bj1so15271688pad.4 for ; Tue, 02 Sep 2014 11:50:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to :cc:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=9OF7dglNBK4wG3YBzgA9+id7UBuDbSTHbeSn9wQMxWw=; b=lLssydubUEgSDw6xGh6jPNGNSZb3aL0JfIF5t2aS76yFdeOZpjMh8rvczCXZZGntT1 Znn0HuM8PYIFX7k2pQv0WtBBUkAIe5tcs3up8NvC9g82XG2rRNc46k2x0UPw4gYCQk+g gl4en3/p4/K+kPHTc/iRyq9MJp55+lZ2x2Cd+vTsyVaulp57i93pd0EOz2/VTk9KxvCi 1TMBacOZ6ZA+ZNZdRY2HS1AZ01Vf/3EVCmTQFiG2m0+gF4HbyVVo64EdO6XQG/9wWmbP yMnMXFru8N1M9R+ug6w6RZSrrgNe5h7U5wHi5VtD+EQ/k/UR+dlaw1S1ghRrXrBd2S8g mUww== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkpN3gEqvnM+nPZAWdJOmLhvQJedWhOVXJRXWxoFTqEi7taJ2zXOPG1JRD4XFcxzn4tWxnm X-Received: by 10.70.128.17 with SMTP id nk17mr29929954pdb.89.1409683830856; Tue, 02 Sep 2014 11:50:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tamias.local ([64.214.126.166]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id cf4sm4645318pbb.87.2014.09.02.11.50.29 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 02 Sep 2014 11:50:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <54061178.5080008@thaumas.net> Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2014 11:50:32 -0700 From: Ralph Giles User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Henrik Levkowetz References: <90E7018C-133F-408F-84CA-E21FD9556DCC@vpnc.org> <5405F1C6.3080007@fifthhorseman.net> <5405FA93.4000000@fifthhorseman.net> <54060011.5030000@levkowetz.com> In-Reply-To: <54060011.5030000@levkowetz.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tools-discuss/qDPrNiDDSOWEvicefUHNFjXdNDI Cc: Tools Team Discussion Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] https: redirects to http: for tools.ietf.org? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2014 18:50:33 -0000 On 2014-09-02 10:36 AM, Henrik Levkowetz wrote: >> So requesting a draft name without the version suffix, or just a >> substring of the draft name produces the full URL. Probably, the >> Location response should be absolute , or at least schema-less. > > I've made these redirect explicitly use https: now. Thank you! The link to the text version at the top of https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-codec-oggopus-04 goes to http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-codec-oggopus-04.txt (non-https) In addition, the links to svn, jabber logs, and list archives at the top of https://tools.ietf.org/wg/codec/ use http when the target resources are available over https. -r From nobody Tue Sep 2 12:18:00 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C35F31A885A for ; Tue, 2 Sep 2014 12:17:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ajVaU8VVCJ3L for ; Tue, 2 Sep 2014 12:17:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zinfandel.tools.ietf.org (zinfandel.tools.ietf.org [IPv6:2001:1890:123a::1:2a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9C12C1A8859 for ; Tue, 2 Sep 2014 12:17:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([::1]:44327 helo=vigonier.tools.ietf.org) by zinfandel.tools.ietf.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82_1-5b7a7c0-XX) (envelope-from ) id 1XOtaX-0000wv-KF; Tue, 02 Sep 2014 12:17:57 -0700 Message-ID: <540617DC.4060000@levkowetz.com> Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2014 21:17:48 +0200 From: Henrik Levkowetz User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.9; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ralph Giles References: <90E7018C-133F-408F-84CA-E21FD9556DCC@vpnc.org> <5405F1C6.3080007@fifthhorseman.net> <5405FA93.4000000@fifthhorseman.net> <54060011.5030000@levkowetz.com> <54061178.5080008@thaumas.net> In-Reply-To: <54061178.5080008@thaumas.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: ::1 X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: giles@thaumas.net, tools-discuss@ietf.org, henrik-sent@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on zinfandel.tools.ietf.org); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tools-discuss/KLWWtexqhABjiIfPuUAvAJTOTsU Cc: Tools Team Discussion Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] https: redirects to http: for tools.ietf.org? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2014 19:17:59 -0000 Hi Ralph, On 2014-09-02 20:50 Ralph Giles said the following: > On 2014-09-02 10:36 AM, Henrik Levkowetz wrote: > >>> So requesting a draft name without the version suffix, or just a >>> substring of the draft name produces the full URL. Probably, the >>> Location response should be absolute , or at least schema-less. >> >> I've made these redirect explicitly use https: now. > > Thank you! > > The link to the text version at the top of > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-codec-oggopus-04 goes to > http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-codec-oggopus-04.txt (non-https) Ok, fixed in the htmlizer, which will be rolled out to all the tools sites shortly. It will take about a month before all htmlized files have been re-converted, though, so you won't see this fixed for all drafts at once. > In addition, the links to svn, jabber logs, and list archives at the top > of https://tools.ietf.org/wg/codec/ use http when the target resources > are available over https. Ok. Some of these come from the datatracker, and will have to be fixed there -- I'll fix the others though. Best regards, Henrik From nobody Tue Sep 2 13:56:45 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88F091A06CE for ; Tue, 2 Sep 2014 13:56:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jx-z7tRWEUCk for ; Tue, 2 Sep 2014 13:56:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ie0-f174.google.com (mail-ie0-f174.google.com [209.85.223.174]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 074291A06C1 for ; Tue, 2 Sep 2014 13:56:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ie0-f174.google.com with SMTP id at20so8510262iec.19 for ; Tue, 02 Sep 2014 13:56:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to :cc:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=2pYzFN6z/CI883+bA9Xc9hI4fk/bKaJlokA842x+47Y=; b=c2ItT4sw8x/sWOniL3CVSafCa0/MurqZ3KwokmzBwQ8D6xWP03WTa68ojo0udCcFXa wJEp4/fvlERnwoSPnGeTjWOROm2MjHjO2zzME0JnIU07s7nLVFYGzS9b0hy2+1QHx7Mi 8OP6RHsmsjJ5lzw3BP1rVaKSLCAa2acfcpa9QWl1RMGrg7AxGuBxxCXnQww7EJVYC9IL ZcDoJvEP6VD7wbpyPNGbrYNUI10TEEgqSku32VyityZiri4in9fRKb17RGgEWokTW9Ef rTBBHzpRJOx6sa2Wszri6txLKOvunmaNwkn+GWuYK0nXZM9cZZGcbGmuafkPMckTYjjI ZoAw== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkGkW5PxVuLebmp3hVhWGyTewBx3l6EJaEQhUXsf4N5MtVu7SSJbuLgIdXWelwAZ2Mog31U X-Received: by 10.42.25.141 with SMTP id a13mr33748109icc.37.1409691401098; Tue, 02 Sep 2014 13:56:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tamias.local ([2001:450:1c:224:3812:bca1:344e:1e0]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id y3sm174560ign.1.2014.09.02.13.56.39 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 02 Sep 2014 13:56:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <54062F08.7050808@thaumas.net> Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2014 13:56:40 -0700 From: Ralph Giles User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Henrik Levkowetz References: <90E7018C-133F-408F-84CA-E21FD9556DCC@vpnc.org> <5405F1C6.3080007@fifthhorseman.net> <5405FA93.4000000@fifthhorseman.net> <54060011.5030000@levkowetz.com> <54061178.5080008@thaumas.net> <540617DC.4060000@levkowetz.com> In-Reply-To: <540617DC.4060000@levkowetz.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tools-discuss/0bSip-S64WVUu_IZawh0gO9yIB8 Cc: Tools Team Discussion Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] https: redirects to http: for tools.ietf.org? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2014 20:56:45 -0000 On 2014-09-02 12:17 PM, Henrik Levkowetz wrote: > Ok. Some of these come from the datatracker, and will have to be fixed > there -- I'll fix the others though. Thanks. Where do I report datatracker bugs? -r From nobody Wed Sep 3 01:37:19 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDE0F1A7D85 for ; Wed, 3 Sep 2014 01:37:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.89 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.89 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, T_FILL_THIS_FORM_SHORT=0.01, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pgLiUk-hEvAZ for ; Wed, 3 Sep 2014 01:37:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp5.iomartmail.com (asmtp5.iomartmail.com [62.128.201.176]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4E46E1A702D for ; Wed, 3 Sep 2014 01:37:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp5.iomartmail.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by asmtp5.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id s838bBB9023710; Wed, 3 Sep 2014 09:37:11 +0100 Received: from 950129200 (union-hotels-13.gh-union.si [91.208.88.13]) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp5.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id s838b99k023657 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Wed, 3 Sep 2014 09:37:10 +0100 From: "Adrian Farrel" To: References: <201409030248.s832m1vb081023@maildrop11.v6ds.occnc.com> In-Reply-To: <201409030248.s832m1vb081023@maildrop11.v6ds.occnc.com> Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2014 09:37:11 +0100 Message-ID: <05b901cfc752$4294d6d0$c7be8470$@olddog.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQH7OEoW2g5+F4NtlN6tWRcp5e4zY5uYMV1g Content-Language: en-gb X-TM-AS-MML: disable X-TM-AS-Product-Ver: IMSS-7.1.0.1576-7.5.0.1018-20926.004 X-TM-AS-Result: No--10.920-10.0-31-10 X-imss-scan-details: No--10.920-10.0-31-10 X-TMASE-MatchedRID: QW5G6BKkLTowJ6xbTjBa5nyX60mMab9I0i/hFXziUdN+MjPrJSTe7NlG rbpvJjlTzrghaTsKwMw3NDohSgs0Tp/yorkJXkCFma6DzXaohvN2wzeakDmDsrDP7EataxHeZvo +mFW19mB4lZp554YkkvFPDHhQkgxyoB+xacuTKy2VUcz8XpiS9B9fNWA7SFWqDYbe/PyX8gQaVC ToL9Pd8U9S6ceOfjJFOj1q7g+RVhR/cp06gDsgiE+4wmL9kCTxmNCGpBaOYyYgOnjvjQ5gMRjpd xl9skrF4vM1YF6AJbZcLc3sLtjOt1ZFWWuOwo7w3QfwsVk0UbtuRXh7bFKB7gcjCmdhKMAuEXBx rnHBG0yU8RM5nFTZctp/x4H0IDw7H8FerAT0dJY= Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tools-discuss/FzZQToTfbBC-epehRPIKWbAj4JE Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org, 'Alia Atlas' Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] email to routing-discussion@ietf.org X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: adrian@olddog.co.uk List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2014 08:37:17 -0000 Curtis, I'm tickled! Also assuming that you did not get blown off by the tools-discuss list (or maybe you did?). I think that might be an important thing to note for the Tools team. Firstly, I just checked that you are correctly subscribed to the list from this address. That all looks good. So the problem is reverse look-up. Curiously, and this is why I'm amused, my ISP is ferocious on reverse look-up and bounces a few long-time IETFers because they use multiple servers with the same domain name but different IP addresses and don't fix up their DNS advertisements correctly. However, obviously I have received your email address so I am going to suggest that your DNS is perfect but that the tools server is having trouble doing the reverse lookup of your IPv6 address. FWIW, where I am in Slovenia I see.... c:>nslookup maildrop2.v6ds.occnc.com Server: dnslj1.t-2.net Address: 84.255.209.79 Name: maildrop2.v6ds.occnc.com Address: 2001:470:88e6:3::232 c:>nslookup 2001:470:88e6:3::232 Server: dnslj1.t-2.net Address: 84.255.209.79 *** dnslj1.t-2.net can't find 2001:470:88e6:3::232: Server failed But I think that is just the local DNS server being v4 only. > -----Original Message----- > From: Curtis Villamizar [mailto:curtis@ipv6.occnc.com] > Sent: 03 September 2014 03:48 > To: Adrian Farrel; Alia Atlas > Cc: curtis@ipv6.occnc.com; tools-discuss@ietf.org > Subject: email to routing-discussion@ietf.org > > > > Adrian, Alia, > > I'm not sure who to go to with this problem. I copied tools-discuss. > > It seems you now have IPv6 on the mail servers but the MTA can't deal > with IPv6 addresses in the headers. > > Below are error messages in a bounce email. Below that are the > forward and reverse DNS entries it complained about (which are fine). > > Full headers on request. > > Curtis > > > > This is a MIME-encapsulated message > > --s82JJ2Jx021712.1409685548/maildrop2.v6ds.occnc.com > > The original message was received at Thu, 28 Aug 2014 15:08:20 -0400 > (EDT) > from harbor3.v6ds.occnc.com [IPv6:2001:470:88e6:3::239] > > ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- > > (reason: 450 4.7.1 Client host rejected: cannot find your reverse > hostname, > [2001:470:88e6:3::232]) > > ----- Transcript of session follows ----- > ... while talking to mail.ietf.org.: > >>> DATA > <<< 450 4.7.1 Client host rejected: cannot find your reverse hostname, > [2001:470:88e6:3::232] > ... Deferred: 450 4.7.1 Client host > rejected: cannot find your reverse hostname, [2001:470:88e6:3::232] > > > > % host maildrop2.v6ds.occnc.com > maildrop2.v6ds.occnc.com has IPv6 address 2001:470:88e6:3::232 > > > % host -t ptr 2001:470:88e6:3::232 > 2.3.2.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.3.0.0.0.6.e.8.8.0.7.4.0.1.0.0.2.ip6.arpa > domain name pointer maildrop2.v6ds.occnc.com. From nobody Wed Sep 3 03:04:19 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAF031A0450 for ; Wed, 3 Sep 2014 03:04:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vAX7nwLeA-ti for ; Wed, 3 Sep 2014 03:04:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zinfandel.tools.ietf.org (zinfandel.tools.ietf.org [IPv6:2001:1890:123a::1:2a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DE1F41A0195 for ; Wed, 3 Sep 2014 03:04:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([::1]:55353 helo=tannat.netnod.se) by zinfandel.tools.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.82_1-5b7a7c0-XX) (envelope-from ) id 1XP7Q7-0000ZU-0p; Wed, 03 Sep 2014 03:04:07 -0700 Message-ID: <5406E796.6020108@levkowetz.com> Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2014 12:04:06 +0200 From: Henrik Levkowetz User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.9; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: adrian@olddog.co.uk, curtis@ipv6.occnc.com References: <201409030248.s832m1vb081023@maildrop11.v6ds.occnc.com> <05b901cfc752$4294d6d0$c7be8470$@olddog.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <05b901cfc752$4294d6d0$c7be8470$@olddog.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: ::1 X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: adrian@olddog.co.uk, curtis@ipv6.occnc.com, tools-discuss@ietf.org, akatlas@gmail.com, henrik-sent@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on zinfandel.tools.ietf.org); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tools-discuss/C36RDJHF80ky37q5GKifTE4MU6M Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org, 'Alia Atlas' Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] email to routing-discussion@ietf.org X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2014 10:04:16 -0000 Hi Adrian, Curtis, The email address in question () is handled by mail.ietf.org, so this is something for the secretariat -- neither tools-discuss nor I personally will be able to sort this out. Best regards, Henrik On 2014-09-03 10:37 Adrian Farrel said: > Curtis, > > I'm tickled! > > Also assuming that you did not get blown off by the tools-discuss list (or maybe > you did?). I think that might be an important thing to note for the Tools team. > > Firstly, I just checked that you are correctly subscribed to the list from this > address. That all looks good. > > So the problem is reverse look-up. Curiously, and this is why I'm amused, my ISP > is ferocious on reverse look-up and bounces a few long-time IETFers because they > use multiple servers with the same domain name but different IP addresses and > don't fix up their DNS advertisements correctly. However, obviously I have > received your email address so I am going to suggest that your DNS is perfect > but that the tools server is having trouble doing the reverse lookup of your > IPv6 address. > > FWIW, where I am in Slovenia I see.... > > c:>nslookup maildrop2.v6ds.occnc.com > Server: dnslj1.t-2.net > Address: 84.255.209.79 > > Name: maildrop2.v6ds.occnc.com > Address: 2001:470:88e6:3::232 > > > c:>nslookup 2001:470:88e6:3::232 > Server: dnslj1.t-2.net > Address: 84.255.209.79 > > *** dnslj1.t-2.net can't find 2001:470:88e6:3::232: Server failed > > But I think that is just the local DNS server being v4 only. > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Curtis Villamizar [mailto:curtis@ipv6.occnc.com] >> Sent: 03 September 2014 03:48 >> To: Adrian Farrel; Alia Atlas >> Cc: curtis@ipv6.occnc.com; tools-discuss@ietf.org >> Subject: email to routing-discussion@ietf.org >> >> >> >> Adrian, Alia, >> >> I'm not sure who to go to with this problem. I copied tools-discuss. >> >> It seems you now have IPv6 on the mail servers but the MTA can't deal >> with IPv6 addresses in the headers. >> >> Below are error messages in a bounce email. Below that are the >> forward and reverse DNS entries it complained about (which are fine). >> >> Full headers on request. >> >> Curtis >> >> >> >> This is a MIME-encapsulated message >> >> --s82JJ2Jx021712.1409685548/maildrop2.v6ds.occnc.com >> >> The original message was received at Thu, 28 Aug 2014 15:08:20 -0400 >> (EDT) >> from harbor3.v6ds.occnc.com [IPv6:2001:470:88e6:3::239] >> >> ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- >> >> (reason: 450 4.7.1 Client host rejected: cannot find your reverse >> hostname, >> [2001:470:88e6:3::232]) >> >> ----- Transcript of session follows ----- >> ... while talking to mail.ietf.org.: >> >>> DATA >> <<< 450 4.7.1 Client host rejected: cannot find your reverse hostname, >> [2001:470:88e6:3::232] >> ... Deferred: 450 4.7.1 Client host >> rejected: cannot find your reverse hostname, [2001:470:88e6:3::232] >> >> >> >> % host maildrop2.v6ds.occnc.com >> maildrop2.v6ds.occnc.com has IPv6 address 2001:470:88e6:3::232 >> >> >> % host -t ptr 2001:470:88e6:3::232 >> 2.3.2.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.3.0.0.0.6.e.8.8.0.7.4.0.1.0.0.2.ip6.arpa >> domain name pointer maildrop2.v6ds.occnc.com. > From nobody Wed Sep 3 03:05:37 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B385D1A8701 for ; Wed, 3 Sep 2014 03:05:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id U3euU_rZhr_a for ; Wed, 3 Sep 2014 03:05:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zinfandel.tools.ietf.org (zinfandel.tools.ietf.org [IPv6:2001:1890:123a::1:2a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4B5191A02E3 for ; Wed, 3 Sep 2014 03:05:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([::1]:55397 helo=tannat.netnod.se) by zinfandel.tools.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.82_1-5b7a7c0-XX) (envelope-from ) id 1XP7RP-0000vn-9H; Wed, 03 Sep 2014 03:05:27 -0700 Message-ID: <5406E7E6.6080209@levkowetz.com> Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2014 12:05:26 +0200 From: Henrik Levkowetz User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.9; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ralph Giles References: <90E7018C-133F-408F-84CA-E21FD9556DCC@vpnc.org> <5405F1C6.3080007@fifthhorseman.net> <5405FA93.4000000@fifthhorseman.net> <54060011.5030000@levkowetz.com> <54061178.5080008@thaumas.net> <540617DC.4060000@levkowetz.com> <54062F08.7050808@thaumas.net> In-Reply-To: <54062F08.7050808@thaumas.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: ::1 X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: giles@thaumas.net, tools-discuss@ietf.org, henrik-sent@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on zinfandel.tools.ietf.org); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tools-discuss/OlfkXJKSZgkLcm78_feflErpogM Cc: Tools Team Discussion Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] https: redirects to http: for tools.ietf.org? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2014 10:05:34 -0000 Hi Ralph, On 2014-09-02 22:56 Ralph Giles said: > On 2014-09-02 12:17 PM, Henrik Levkowetz wrote: >> Ok. Some of these come from the datatracker, and will have to be fixed >> there -- I'll fix the others though. > > Thanks. Where do I report datatracker bugs? http://tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb (That's also indicated in the list signature for the tools-discuss list). Henrik From nobody Sun Sep 7 18:20:43 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1C6A1A0AE6 for ; Sun, 7 Sep 2014 18:20:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.647 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.647 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gaf2xpJJCm87 for ; Sun, 7 Sep 2014 18:20:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from proper.com (Hoffman.Proper.COM [207.182.41.81]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 34A0E1A0AE5 for ; Sun, 7 Sep 2014 18:20:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.20.30.90] (142-254-17-22.dsl.dynamic.fusionbroadband.com [142.254.17.22]) (authenticated bits=0) by proper.com (8.14.9/8.14.7) with ESMTP id s881KZZ0014314 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 7 Sep 2014 18:20:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from paul.hoffman@vpnc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: proper.com: Host 142-254-17-22.dsl.dynamic.fusionbroadband.com [142.254.17.22] claimed to be [10.20.30.90] From: Paul Hoffman Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2014 18:20:33 -0700 To: Tools Team Discussion Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tools-discuss/UZQ_GPyG9NMxrVjr8P7IhMyiuLQ Subject: [Tools-discuss] Changing the location of a closed WG's archive X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2014 01:20:39 -0000 Greetings. https://tools.ietf.org/wg/openpgp/ says that the mail archive = is at http://www.imc.org/ietf-openpgp/mail-archive/; it should instead = point to https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/openpgp, which is the = IETF-run list. --Paul Hoffman= From nobody Sun Sep 7 19:09:05 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B8BE1A0B74 for ; Sun, 7 Sep 2014 19:09:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.647 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.647 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id K24CDxQf5vsU for ; Sun, 7 Sep 2014 19:09:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from proper.com (Hoffman.Proper.COM [207.182.41.81]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C37DC1A0B73 for ; Sun, 7 Sep 2014 19:09:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.20.30.90] (142-254-17-22.dsl.dynamic.fusionbroadband.com [142.254.17.22]) (authenticated bits=0) by proper.com (8.14.9/8.14.7) with ESMTP id s8828x6c015533 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 7 Sep 2014 19:09:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from paul.hoffman@vpnc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: proper.com: Host 142-254-17-22.dsl.dynamic.fusionbroadband.com [142.254.17.22] claimed to be [10.20.30.90] From: Paul Hoffman Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2014 19:08:57 -0700 To: Tools Team Discussion Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tools-discuss/dWM3T_EtkkeYfYSLrkrnu36uFM4 Subject: [Tools-discuss] Opening tickets X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2014 02:09:03 -0000 Greetings yet again. After I sent that last message to this list, I see = from the footer of the message that I was supposed to instead turn in a = trouble ticket, so I did: http://tools.ietf.org/tools/issues/ticket/2 Yes, it is only the second ticket in the ticketing system, and #1 was a = test message. Is that thing on? --Paul Hoffman= From nobody Sun Sep 7 21:30:25 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D7BA1A6EF1 for ; Sun, 7 Sep 2014 21:30:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -100.001 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-100.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_20=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id a6D7I6RJGHUn for ; Sun, 7 Sep 2014 21:30:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zinfandel.tools.ietf.org (zinfandel.tools.ietf.org [IPv6:2001:1890:123a::1:2a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C82FA1A6EE8 for ; Sun, 7 Sep 2014 21:30:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([::1]:57284 helo=vigonier.tools.ietf.org) by zinfandel.tools.ietf.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.82_1-5b7a7c0-XX) (envelope-from ) id 1XQqaq-0003Yn-NU; Sun, 07 Sep 2014 21:30:20 -0700 Message-ID: <540D30DA.9060401@levkowetz.com> Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2014 06:30:18 +0200 From: Henrik Levkowetz User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.9; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.1.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paul Hoffman , Tools Team Discussion References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: ::1 X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: henrik-sent@levkowetz.com, tools-discuss@ietf.org, paul.hoffman@vpnc.org X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on zinfandel.tools.ietf.org); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tools-discuss/cgzDR3LOm06-GVtMAVzf3-64X0g Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Opening tickets X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2014 04:30:24 -0000 Hi Paul, On 2014-09-08 04:08, Paul Hoffman wrote: > Greetings yet again. After I sent that last message to this list, I > see from the footer of the message that I was supposed to instead > turn in a trouble ticket, so I did: > http://tools.ietf.org/tools/issues/ticket/2 Thank you so much for using the ticket system :-) > Yes, it is only the second ticket in the ticketing system, and #1 was > a test message. > > Is that thing on? It is, it is. It has been an uphill fight to make people use it, though; witness the time between the first and the second tickets (almost a year). Best regards, Henrik From nobody Mon Sep 8 06:43:39 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B54B51A87D5 for ; Mon, 8 Sep 2014 06:43:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.521 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.521 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_20=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BFN2VjRPaqp6 for ; Mon, 8 Sep 2014 06:43:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ob0-x235.google.com (mail-ob0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c01::235]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DD4841A87CE for ; Mon, 8 Sep 2014 06:43:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ob0-f181.google.com with SMTP id vb8so10769710obc.40 for ; Mon, 08 Sep 2014 06:43:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cridland.net; s=google; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=Gx3C74w7ZPsxvLj/MMYJBMeapnr2fmKEUJ3G+HWyC/o=; b=jJ54XYyl8mF9z0urvpb26liy5V/8lnGOV07NTETZl35F2lTrjCCwuDW5MSq5mAlAsU PCvUKeibgKWEwg/QY0WekPeNi57CoNROi2FucidcjxjWpXrYYPmOe4vWRB6yt0uXY3Tt Bqvb6DOD9SZmaRS8lAFrleSvs+0ym3ptcPhus= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=Gx3C74w7ZPsxvLj/MMYJBMeapnr2fmKEUJ3G+HWyC/o=; b=Gzl91m0qvI8Yvh5ZmMqXx/NfH6oRTGxLmFXNvEVoN6h1tC0s5C4rFptorSFGN66u65 O08IUGnd2zUv6MZ7URrEtHh/BRI7Y/XEnSw6srtsKWPukMd+chj3Llj9g8lljHZBK/f8 LDJsd/pk+rfT+MxJJecFFeKGYGBVj+IeEo68WV2Y5YrWw42aHFQ41rQ0VKHeSLP6j14+ Ku7aH3/JfGWFtYk6eOkHRASYUL5fXy9+exPuaVMrpx72rzjDfuT11wiK8lAgbZB2yfwt RBDGmBQ3Vzbq7JlNKY+mWe2LGQsTFoORr5SWLawCix7Sb4CZJUZSqnAytIphFsMEVGvk Wa4A== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQn8N4aqG2jS0/Kgm8vAaDW5hT/Xyc7GARnEsgz3LakdDqvJE8K38VpKjIv3lS3pSj6P09Pg MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.182.80.33 with SMTP id o1mr3485805obx.78.1410183811201; Mon, 08 Sep 2014 06:43:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.60.55.1 with HTTP; Mon, 8 Sep 2014 06:43:31 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <540D30DA.9060401@levkowetz.com> References: <540D30DA.9060401@levkowetz.com> Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2014 14:43:31 +0100 Message-ID: From: Dave Cridland To: Henrik Levkowetz Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b2e440223ad4c05028e01e9 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tools-discuss/qZcSoAlwuik5GeRgpA9g3E5n2Bs Cc: Paul Hoffman , Tools Team Discussion Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Opening tickets X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2014 13:43:37 -0000 --047d7b2e440223ad4c05028e01e9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 It won't help that gmail strips off the "signature" - in the "-- " sense - from display. On 8 September 2014 05:30, Henrik Levkowetz wrote: > Hi Paul, > > On 2014-09-08 04:08, Paul Hoffman wrote: > > Greetings yet again. After I sent that last message to this list, I > > see from the footer of the message that I was supposed to instead > > turn in a trouble ticket, so I did: > > http://tools.ietf.org/tools/issues/ticket/2 > > Thank you so much for using the ticket system :-) > > > Yes, it is only the second ticket in the ticketing system, and #1 was > > a test message. > > > > Is that thing on? > > It is, it is. It has been an uphill fight to make people use it, though; > witness the time between the first and the second tickets (almost a year). > > > Best regards, > > Henrik > > -- > Tools-discuss mailing list > Tools-discuss@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss > > Please reports datatracker.ietf.org bugs at > http://tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb > Please reports tools.ietf.org bugs at http://tools.ietf.org/tools/issues > or > send email to webmaster@tools.ietf.org > --047d7b2e440223ad4c05028e01e9 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
It won't help that gmail strips off the "signatur= e" - in the "-- " sense - from display.

On 8 September 2014 05:30, Henri= k Levkowetz <henrik@levkowetz.com> wrote:
Hi Paul,

On 2014-09-08 04:08, Paul Hoffman wrote:
> Greetings yet again. After I sent that last message to this list, I > see from the footer of the message that I was supposed to instead
> turn in a trouble ticket, so I did:
> http://tools.ietf.org/tools/issues/ticket/2

Thank you so much for using the ticket system :-)

> Yes, it is only the second ticket in the ticketing system, and #1 was<= br> > a test message.
>
> Is that thing on?

It is, it is.=C2=A0 It has been an uphill fight to make people use i= t, though;
witness the time between the first and the second tickets (almost a year).<= br>

Best regards,

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Henrik

--
Tools-discuss mailing list
Tools-discuss@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss

Please reports da= tatracker.ietf.org bugs at http://tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb
Please reports tools.ie= tf.org bugs at http://tools.ietf.org/tools/issues or
send email to webmaster@tools.i= etf.org

--047d7b2e440223ad4c05028e01e9-- From nobody Tue Sep 16 12:07:19 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7473F1A8774 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 2014 12:07:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3HJcQksqBtsJ for ; Tue, 16 Sep 2014 12:07:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ie0-x233.google.com (mail-ie0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c03::233]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 36E411A8753 for ; 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charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tools-discuss/_HTtuRXuJ8oR9L8s33c4VT7I6O4 Subject: [Tools-discuss] RFC search and mixed content X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2014 19:07:17 -0000 The search page at https://tools.ietf.org/html/ is broken, due to the following Google assets being loaded over HTTP: "http://www.google.com/afsonline/show_afs_search.js" "http://www.google.com/coop/cse/brand?form=searchbox_011177064926444307064%3Arsqif7nmmi0" From nobody Fri Sep 19 02:44:29 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A8A81A0077; Fri, 19 Sep 2014 02:44:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wWA_nW_Tj-16; Fri, 19 Sep 2014 02:44:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp4.iomartmail.com (asmtp4.iomartmail.com [62.128.201.175]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8B16D1A0072; Fri, 19 Sep 2014 02:44:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp4.iomartmail.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by asmtp4.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id s8J9iN4M009032; Fri, 19 Sep 2014 10:44:23 +0100 Received: from 950129200 (176-227-128-84.ip.skylogicnet.com [176.227.128.84]) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp4.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id s8J9i9bc008962 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Fri, 19 Sep 2014 10:44:19 +0100 From: "Adrian Farrel" To: , Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2014 10:44:08 +0100 Message-ID: <06bf01cfd3ee$4a1d5ff0$de581fd0$@olddog.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: Ac/T7j+VRXxSYORESlS5qn7OkEScfA== Content-Language: en-gb X-TM-AS-MML: disable X-TM-AS-Product-Ver: IMSS-7.1.0.1576-7.5.0.1018-20962.006 X-TM-AS-Result: No--11.186-10.0-31-10 X-imss-scan-details: No--11.186-10.0-31-10 X-TMASE-MatchedRID: uz066wf0knJQ1gfDAEwQErttJwl7IC+WgJTL4myGM+ZojAWuSDNe9k1V CZILs3Im8p796sClznJApmh3apo2WuFBn+sIzaHLRLYH80czGtcrxL9+V2xlNH+xQ2Bqcl6t9gx Y+N3L4PhqfyaKbUVEvUkQ36IxbU+l/dTzVyoAQ5nmAId+2bAQwn0tCKdnhB58vqq8s2MNhPB/KM EkOe61SFBIVsvVu9ABIAcCikR3vq+YD72B3fBAVuTV8jVIbgGu1zGoYTBhFRODlMPeZeCT/BJ6a 5opWSmY Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tools-discuss/WGS1EmvZYQyE7xDDZSXg4eVjO-4 Subject: [Tools-discuss] Wondering about moving some aliases to be real lists X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: adrian@olddog.co.uk List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2014 09:44:27 -0000 Hi, In RTG we have been happily using rtg-chairs@ietf.org as a good communication tool for the chairs to share information and ideas. However, this is an alias not a list, so there is no archive. We're wondering about migrating to an archived list with restricted membership and limited access to the archive. Does anyone have any thoughts for or against? One question is whether the membership of a mailman list can be automated. Consider, for example, that the IESG list is manually updated as IESG members come and go. Thanks, Adrian From nobody Fri Sep 19 05:55:00 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92A411A0125; Fri, 19 Sep 2014 05:54:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WFy_T06DLFw0; Fri, 19 Sep 2014 05:54:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sbh17.songbird.com (sbh17.songbird.com [72.52.113.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9DA041A010E; Fri, 19 Sep 2014 05:54:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.66] (76-218-8-156.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net [76.218.8.156]) (authenticated bits=0) by sbh17.songbird.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id s8JCsmDd001152 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Fri, 19 Sep 2014 05:54:51 -0700 Message-ID: <541C2791.5050301@dcrocker.net> Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2014 05:54:41 -0700 From: Dave Crocker Organization: Brandenburg InternetWorking User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: adrian@olddog.co.uk, iesg@ietf.org, tools-discuss@ietf.org References: <06bf01cfd3ee$4a1d5ff0$de581fd0$@olddog.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <06bf01cfd3ee$4a1d5ff0$de581fd0$@olddog.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.0 (sbh17.songbird.com [72.52.113.66]); Fri, 19 Sep 2014 05:54:51 -0700 (PDT) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tools-discuss/uYlh4R2kwFyAVXKCfyuT9Xbs794 Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Wondering about moving some aliases to be real lists X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: dcrocker@bbiw.net List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2014 12:54:55 -0000 On 9/19/2014 2:44 AM, Adrian Farrel wrote: > However, this is an alias > not a list, so there is no archive. There are a number of other, standard, role-based addresses, such as the one for i-d authors. Once we start archiving one of these, it's worth considering archiving all of them. Just for completeness: A counterpoint is that we aren't very consistent about actually /using/ role addresses. So mail that is sent to the personal address of a chair of course won't get archived. I don't see any solution to that, and I suspect there shouldn't be one... d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net From nobody Fri Sep 19 08:07:10 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EEB51A0104 for ; Fri, 19 Sep 2014 08:07:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.552 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.552 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-1.652] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id M9qV1joE9DPh for ; Fri, 19 Sep 2014 08:07:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 503301A00B2 for ; Fri, 19 Sep 2014 08:07:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from unnumerable.local (pool-173-71-50-162.dllstx.fios.verizon.net [173.71.50.162]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.14.9/8.14.7) with ESMTP id s8JF756I028185 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=OK) for ; Fri, 19 Sep 2014 10:07:05 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from rjsparks@nostrum.com) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host pool-173-71-50-162.dllstx.fios.verizon.net [173.71.50.162] claimed to be unnumerable.local Message-ID: <541C4699.6010904@nostrum.com> Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2014 10:07:05 -0500 From: Robert Sparks User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.9; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tools-discuss@ietf.org References: <06bf01cfd3ee$4a1d5ff0$de581fd0$@olddog.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <06bf01cfd3ee$4a1d5ff0$de581fd0$@olddog.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tools-discuss/EUa5B9WnTfTLuGYL_TNv6PTZ4QE Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Wondering about moving some aliases to be real lists X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2014 15:07:08 -0000 On 9/19/14 4:44 AM, Adrian Farrel wrote: > Hi, > > In RTG we have been happily using rtg-chairs@ietf.org as a good communication > tool for the chairs to share information and ideas. However, this is an alias > not a list, so there is no archive. > > We're wondering about migrating to an archived list with restricted membership > and limited access to the archive. > > Does anyone have any thoughts for or against? Just one. If something sent to this list really _needs_ archiving, would it be better sent to the area list instead? Ok two : we're in the 'proliferation of lists' swing of a pendulum that's made many cycles. When the backswing comes, is this something you would defend as a separate archived list, or would you give in and let it be consolidated with something else? > One question is whether the membership of a mailman list can be automated. Probably, but there would be some non-trivial initial effort, and, I expect, discovery of surprising edge cases along the way. (The mechanic is the sync-members command at http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/site.html) A group like a rtg-chairs would be a better group than the IESG to start experimenting with. > Consider, for example, that the IESG list is manually updated as IESG members > come and go. > > Thanks, > Adrian > From nobody Mon Sep 22 06:11:39 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 067CA1A1AC6 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 06:11:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7.687 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.687 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.786, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=unavailable Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MrBMtRYQAx9a for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 06:11:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from e9.ny.us.ibm.com (e9.ny.us.ibm.com [32.97.182.139]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 62A5B1A1AB9 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 06:11:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from /spool/local by e9.ny.us.ibm.com with IBM ESMTP SMTP Gateway: Authorized Use Only! Violators will be prosecuted for from ; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 09:11:26 -0400 Received: from d01dlp03.pok.ibm.com (9.56.250.168) by e9.ny.us.ibm.com (192.168.1.109) with IBM ESMTP SMTP Gateway: Authorized Use Only! Violators will be prosecuted; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 09:11:23 -0400 Received: from b01cxnp22036.gho.pok.ibm.com (b01cxnp22036.gho.pok.ibm.com [9.57.198.26]) by d01dlp03.pok.ibm.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85645C9003E; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 09:00:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from d01av01.pok.ibm.com (d01av01.pok.ibm.com [9.56.224.215]) by b01cxnp22036.gho.pok.ibm.com (8.14.9/8.14.9/NCO v10.0) with ESMTP id s8MDBMQu62128322; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 13:11:22 GMT Received: from d01av01.pok.ibm.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by d01av01.pok.ibm.com (8.14.4/8.14.4/NCO v10.0 AVout) with ESMTP id s8MDBMNu011378; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 09:11:22 -0400 Received: from cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com ([9.80.109.235]) by d01av01.pok.ibm.com (8.14.4/8.14.4/NCO v10.0 AVin) with ESMTP id s8MDBM5o011306 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 22 Sep 2014 09:11:22 -0400 Received: from cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com.us.ibm.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com (8.14.4/8.12.5) with ESMTP id s8MDBLCZ016625; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 09:11:21 -0400 Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 09:11:21 -0400 Message-ID: From: Thomas Narten To: adrian@olddog.co.uk In-Reply-To: <06bf01cfd3ee$4a1d5ff0$de581fd0$@olddog.co.uk> References: <06bf01cfd3ee$4a1d5ff0$de581fd0$@olddog.co.uk> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) SEMI-EPG/1.14.7 (Harue) FLIM/1.14.9 (=?ISO-8859-4?Q?Goj=F2?=) APEL/10.8 EasyPG/1.0.0 Emacs/23.1 (x86_64-redhat-linux-gnu) MULE/6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI-EPG 1.14.7 - "Harue") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-TM-AS-MML: disable X-Content-Scanned: Fidelis XPS MAILER x-cbid: 14092213-7182-0000-0000-00000083085C Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tools-discuss/mYxXprWY8ipXNcXEiBHwf8bswdU Cc: iesg@ietf.org, tools-discuss@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Wondering about moving some aliases to be real lists X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 13:11:36 -0000 Please migrate to a proper mailing list. One minor annoyance I have with the current setup is that it adds a "Resent-To" header line that lists the individual addresses that rtg-chairs expands to. That means having to special-case procmail rules in some cases for such pseudo-lists. :-( Thomas And, the individual addresses At Fri, 19 Sep 2014 10:44:08 +0100, Adrian Farrel wrote: > > Hi, > > In RTG we have been happily using rtg-chairs@ietf.org as a good communication > tool for the chairs to share information and ideas. However, this is an alias > not a list, so there is no archive. > > We're wondering about migrating to an archived list with restricted membership > and limited access to the archive. > > Does anyone have any thoughts for or against? > One question is whether the membership of a mailman list can be automated. > Consider, for example, that the IESG list is manually updated as IESG members > come and go. > > Thanks, > Adrian > > -- > Tools-discuss mailing list > Tools-discuss@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss > > Please reports datatracker.ietf.org bugs at http://tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb > Please reports tools.ietf.org bugs at http://tools.ietf.org/tools/issues or > send email to webmaster@tools.ietf.org > From nobody Mon Sep 22 06:15:40 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8FDB1A1AB8 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 06:15:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_05=-0.5, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vAbUCsOsuObO for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 06:15:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ig0-x230.google.com (mail-ig0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c05::230]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 96F961A00CA for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 06:15:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ig0-f176.google.com with SMTP id hn15so2644258igb.3 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 06:15:33 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=v31dDT1S+ZNtWTSvy/tnMDbFW7xZy8Qh3+ehMUxRinQ=; b=gPhxmWosKlo5Df0VZ1O4/OhfAwxLqFK+x+j69CI6HWDoZK/fCGCiq4XnHWO9V8qpGc feQli7xM0Adqmh4JpL6c2q0kQdxVPSmDrYKzf+dmJjd73OntRKSw8uuypSMQJ5EGOv4Z FAXRtF5NjmXawEPyUsV6mwUKTBAnb2XpAkwACHgs0UsByBRL4/IJD+qmnewlRaVek17Y UO0YvaDngLxfhcTejmzfTkcUTD8u23VyT4P4t1zXpjPIAuQm9PK3kGmp2E8BpKx7AMSL Ffg2qAMHdq8DnQwFsSwHqJRkvgLsDdoNmsHMRRpYzLFIYuSYL2UPLn/aCjRATPUgGp2t wa2g== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.50.87.99 with SMTP id w3mr3110207igz.4.1411391732952; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 06:15:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.107.10.143 with HTTP; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 06:15:32 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <541C4699.6010904@nostrum.com> References: <06bf01cfd3ee$4a1d5ff0$de581fd0$@olddog.co.uk> <541C4699.6010904@nostrum.com> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 09:15:32 -0400 Message-ID: From: Richard Barnes To: Robert Sparks Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tools-discuss/E04rX2nwV7mJgZ3HHKS2R9tVWm4 Cc: Tools Team Discussion Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Wondering about moving some aliases to be real lists X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 13:15:38 -0000 I would really rather not have it be the case that rai-ads@ietf.org be archived. My personal mail store works well enough, and there's no confusion as to whether it's public or not. Adrian: Why is it that the IETF needs to archive these messages for you, as opposed to you keeping a local copy? Also, +1 to Robert's point that if it's important enough to be archived, it's important enough to be on a list. On Fri, Sep 19, 2014 at 11:07 AM, Robert Sparks wrote: > > On 9/19/14 4:44 AM, Adrian Farrel wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> In RTG we have been happily using rtg-chairs@ietf.org as a good >> communication >> tool for the chairs to share information and ideas. However, this is an >> alias >> not a list, so there is no archive. >> >> We're wondering about migrating to an archived list with restricted >> membership >> and limited access to the archive. >> >> Does anyone have any thoughts for or against? > > Just one. If something sent to this list really _needs_ archiving, would it > be better > sent to the area list instead? > > Ok two : we're in the 'proliferation of lists' swing of a pendulum that's > made many cycles. > When the backswing comes, is this something you would defend as a separate > archived list, > or would you give in and let it be consolidated with something else? >> >> One question is whether the membership of a mailman list can be automated. > > Probably, but there would be some non-trivial initial effort, and, I expect, > discovery of surprising edge cases along the way. > (The mechanic is the sync-members command at > http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/site.html) > > A group like a rtg-chairs would be a better group than the IESG to start > experimenting with. > >> Consider, for example, that the IESG list is manually updated as IESG >> members >> come and go. >> >> Thanks, >> Adrian >> > > -- > Tools-discuss mailing list > Tools-discuss@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss > > Please reports datatracker.ietf.org bugs at > http://tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb > Please reports tools.ietf.org bugs at http://tools.ietf.org/tools/issues or > send email to webmaster@tools.ietf.org From nobody Mon Sep 22 06:35:04 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6AEDA1A1AD3 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 06:35:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.687 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.687 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.786, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FvlSPh31i9nL for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 06:35:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 629471A1AD4 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 06:35:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.21]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60DF020012; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 09:40:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: by sandelman.ca (Postfix, from userid 179) id 9914C63AE9; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 09:34:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8673563AD5; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 09:34:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: Richard Barnes In-Reply-To: References: <06bf01cfd3ee$4a1d5ff0$de581fd0$@olddog.co.uk> <541C4699.6010904@nostrum.com> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.2; nmh 1.3-dev; GNU Emacs 23.4.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Sender: mcr@sandelman.ca Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tools-discuss/wIFsEoXbyYboAYJkhtqjg8922Dk Cc: Tools Team Discussion , Robert Sparks Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Wondering about moving some aliases to be real lists X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 13:35:02 -0000 Richard Barnes wrote: > I would really rather not have it be the case that rai-ads@ietf.org be > archived. My personal mail store works well enough, and there's no > confusion as to whether it's public or not. It's not just about the archive, I think. It's also that DMARC fallout is impossible to mitigate when it is an alias. From nobody Mon Sep 22 07:12:33 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 058751A1AED for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 07:12:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Uo7rtMq8Hvum for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 07:12:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ie0-x22b.google.com (mail-ie0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c03::22b]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ABF3E1A1B16 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 07:05:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ie0-f171.google.com with SMTP id rd18so2636539iec.2 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 07:05:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=83I2YM6IMFf+uew30Rvg6yQluPWX+Bfo0N0XAkgL7ec=; b=cgBhLpZ9AmsXDwrtO7ycaB1uh8TEXGPbdKE2LU9f+PIsyK4omBzrFHc+HNmE/2LR56 MJun/zG2okk2Yu182za+AKoEf9u/83DFKHwGGsKgWy357F93/6jA3Z4HgD/pRMGivsRb HmCFD1U/9OHjSaf83osgA7YPpqkui+O+3Nt3K8azlq26eHoDhMJzm/yoQCiTqfMPDBTB VoyorUvGWRFrNPVJAOJAxb/qpm3ySc9D92RQWkKbZGGkIgHoowx5nHwaLyqFkanX9nHI 4zaEX7CwLJTJ6bqztAFsZVEACOCKKT9gkZDQGKLxgCeczuJXhkJSJn6p31KCRQFKH7X9 RDxw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.42.114.203 with SMTP id h11mr938956icq.86.1411394741086; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 07:05:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.107.10.143 with HTTP; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 07:05:41 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <31790.1411392897@sandelman.ca> References: <06bf01cfd3ee$4a1d5ff0$de581fd0$@olddog.co.uk> <541C4699.6010904@nostrum.com> <31790.1411392897@sandelman.ca> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 10:05:41 -0400 Message-ID: From: Richard Barnes To: Michael Richardson Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tools-discuss/iULVSKhG83qi_riI7bhhy_A_nfA Cc: Tools Team Discussion , Robert Sparks Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Wondering about moving some aliases to be real lists X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 14:12:28 -0000 Can you expand on this, for someone unfamiliar with DMARC? On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 9:34 AM, Michael Richardson wrote: > > Richard Barnes wrote: > > I would really rather not have it be the case that rai-ads@ietf.org be > > archived. My personal mail store works well enough, and there's no > > confusion as to whether it's public or not. > > It's not just about the archive, I think. > It's also that DMARC fallout is impossible to mitigate when it is an alias. > From nobody Mon Sep 22 10:35:49 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C44EE1A1BC1 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 10:35:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.677 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.677 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.786, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_TVD_MIME_NO_HEADERS=0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id e3nFoNK1DNAV for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 10:35:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 921351A1BBF for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 10:35:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60F03E00D; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 13:40:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: by sandelman.ca (Postfix, from userid 179) id DF7CB63AE9; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 13:35:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB64763AD5; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 13:35:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: Richard Barnes In-Reply-To: References: <06bf01cfd3ee$4a1d5ff0$de581fd0$@olddog.co.uk> <541C4699.6010904@nostrum.com> <31790.1411392897@sandelman.ca> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.2; nmh 1.3-dev; GNU Emacs 23.4.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Sender: mcr@sandelman.ca Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tools-discuss/rsg1zoQbkZS6ReH2o23s3p6jnhM Cc: Tools Team Discussion , Robert Sparks Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Wondering about moving some aliases to be real lists X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 17:35:48 -0000 --=-=-= Richard Barnes wrote: > Can you expand on this, for someone unfamiliar with DMARC? Nor am I. Just a victim. https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/search/?q=DMARC+ietf&f_list=ietf&gbt=1 -- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) iQEVAwUBVCBd7oCLcPvd0N1lAQIYiQf+L/oS1QP85ZDxbmyz4+70oLRmcRLPhQIM kQpw94REQNQqIPLdgDI6sOEaMeEfFJn/l1Vcd9B8H6xgSoeW5PtAEgS0XI0SnedV wr14hUeM3eleC3CGBSgfZRXlaIcXqOqm19+PEOh9wotJqajF+ch2N5M9ogna8nvc 3M3i+y0Zx5RzDZff68DPR+GEbXxuudwTmWsZmrW293dtLRR+psGNn19NzYjNoNs/ HCZ4rjw3+taFwxHvBEpEwtv7JKiOFconZzuU4Y5m5qyJ8h3yQnse+zKB4eNpP04Y MVVahWMyDY+bQ3AjMKBtM3WSV35RdD5aHo0cUMiHX6k3nUJOnhD+3Q== =EShN -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Mon Sep 22 12:43:20 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA19C1A1B29 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 12:43:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id whtv-0ZLUvpN for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 12:43:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ig0-x229.google.com (mail-ig0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c05::229]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C42E01A1BD2 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 12:43:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ig0-f169.google.com with SMTP id l13so4520437iga.4 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 12:43:18 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=kqkER6EQXI1/8FSaUzADEzjiQMbWG6oxqzqSFCul4Uc=; b=DtCktMUqQ5l11gd/y2E64x9HYC/GM9KqfGxdsxfN+E/vqnq8JbQp2A3TVXIXyW+z0U UcpCucYoM/ZaJP4jAg8GhigQtAmf7/Vq5Xgwg9gdGS6xYWBoi9CPWR3VwjWiTArOvuEf qJTZ/Zu/1e4c+zXXbkRGInSMVbSckN1/KOK/IHqR1XxI2Jz/ExDpO1agvML2DyTBxMTH RQmGHJ4vvNW3K25Gvs0/YO/I6d2dmWj0xejB/Xojggtvi8Pf9IKEyUDqmlYu/TbsGKh5 ugsJL11aW4V3MFmZFSrTV/sa/JJpo3MGemyOeCsj6krRCDd89IUNJZexXJh5wQHz7ooQ 4Yfg== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.42.114.203 with SMTP id h11mr2754832icq.86.1411414998141; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 12:43:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.107.10.143 with HTTP; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 12:43:18 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <19496.1411407344@sandelman.ca> References: <06bf01cfd3ee$4a1d5ff0$de581fd0$@olddog.co.uk> <541C4699.6010904@nostrum.com> <31790.1411392897@sandelman.ca> <19496.1411407344@sandelman.ca> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 15:43:18 -0400 Message-ID: From: Richard Barnes To: Michael Richardson Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tools-discuss/IWQinCHWqC__yIe5u4zLF4HZO3A Cc: Tools Team Discussion , Robert Sparks Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Wondering about moving some aliases to be real lists X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 19:43:20 -0000 Maybe I'm being dense here, but I don't see anything in that thread about DMARC having problems with aliases. --Richard On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 1:35 PM, Michael Richardson wrote: > > Richard Barnes wrote: > > Can you expand on this, for someone unfamiliar with DMARC? > > Nor am I. > Just a victim. > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/search/?q=DMARC+ietf&f_list=ietf&gbt=1 > > > -- > Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works > -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- > > > From nobody Mon Sep 22 13:26:06 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07E101A1A92 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 13:26:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dHj_yjTClYto for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 13:26:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sbh17.songbird.com (sbh17.songbird.com [72.52.113.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 390EC1A01EF for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 13:26:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.66] (76-218-8-156.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net [76.218.8.156]) (authenticated bits=0) by sbh17.songbird.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id s8MKPxvh018372 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Mon, 22 Sep 2014 13:26:03 -0700 Message-ID: <542085D4.2050506@dcrocker.net> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 13:25:56 -0700 From: Dave Crocker Organization: Brandenburg InternetWorking User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Michael Richardson , Richard Barnes References: <06bf01cfd3ee$4a1d5ff0$de581fd0$@olddog.co.uk> <541C4699.6010904@nostrum.com> <31790.1411392897@sandelman.ca> In-Reply-To: <31790.1411392897@sandelman.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.0 (sbh17.songbird.com [72.52.113.66]); Mon, 22 Sep 2014 13:26:03 -0700 (PDT) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tools-discuss/mYMHEfg4s0ieP2vmy30QPvXNs-w Cc: Tools Team Discussion , Robert Sparks Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Wondering about moving some aliases to be real lists X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: dcrocker@bbiw.net List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 20:26:05 -0000 On 9/22/2014 6:34 AM, Michael Richardson wrote: > It's also that DMARC fallout is impossible to mitigate when it is an alias. Typical email aliasing mechanisms do not change the message (header + body). Rather they merely replace the rfc5321.RcptTo command address. As such, DKIM signatures should survive. Mailing lists mess with the message text and, therefore, /do/ break DKIM signatures. So while aliasing isn't the same as pure relaying, it's very close, since it only message with a part of the SMTP envelope. SPF authentication won't survive aliasing, but DKIM signing should. d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net From nobody Tue Sep 23 06:48:35 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 442251A802F for ; Tue, 23 Sep 2014 06:48:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.687 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.687 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.786, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lfU5kEz7u-b6 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 2014 06:48:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3:216:3eff:fe7c:d1f3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C4FAC1A8033 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 2014 06:48:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id A938020012; Tue, 23 Sep 2014 09:53:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: by sandelman.ca (Postfix, from userid 179) id 5051663AE9; Tue, 23 Sep 2014 09:48:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B04E63AD5; Tue, 23 Sep 2014 09:48:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: dcrocker@bbiw.net In-Reply-To: <542085D4.2050506@dcrocker.net> References: <06bf01cfd3ee$4a1d5ff0$de581fd0$@olddog.co.uk> <541C4699.6010904@nostrum.com> <31790.1411392897@sandelman.ca> <542085D4.2050506@dcrocker.net> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.2; nmh 1.3-dev; GNU Emacs 23.4.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Sender: mcr@sandelman.ca Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tools-discuss/KlaLmS_h0Foan77sUA5y7YEgbno Cc: Richard Barnes , Tools Team Discussion , Robert Sparks Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Wondering about moving some aliases to be real lists X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 13:48:33 -0000 Dave Crocker wrote: > On 9/22/2014 6:34 AM, Michael Richardson wrote: >> It's also that DMARC fallout is impossible to mitigate when it is an alias. > Typical email aliasing mechanisms do not change the message (header + > body). Rather they merely replace the rfc5321.RcptTo command address. > As such, DKIM signatures should survive. > Mailing lists mess with the message text and, therefore, /do/ break DKIM > signatures. yeah, but they change which IP address is sending the message with the given From: > So while aliasing isn't the same as pure relaying, it's very close, > since it only message with a part of the SMTP envelope. > SPF authentication won't survive aliasing, but DKIM signing should. And DMARC is about both. From nobody Tue Sep 23 07:18:26 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 845D21A8033 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 2014 07:18:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1J1OnQX-6Cf5 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 2014 07:17:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sbh17.songbird.com (sbh17.songbird.com [72.52.113.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D246C1A86EA for ; Tue, 23 Sep 2014 07:17:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.66] (76-218-8-156.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net [76.218.8.156]) (authenticated bits=0) by sbh17.songbird.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id s8NEHffi009486 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Tue, 23 Sep 2014 07:17:44 -0700 Message-ID: <542180FE.2060507@dcrocker.net> Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 07:17:34 -0700 From: Dave Crocker Organization: Brandenburg InternetWorking User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Michael Richardson References: <06bf01cfd3ee$4a1d5ff0$de581fd0$@olddog.co.uk> <541C4699.6010904@nostrum.com> <31790.1411392897@sandelman.ca> <542085D4.2050506@dcrocker.net> <6872.1411480109@sandelman.ca> In-Reply-To: <6872.1411480109@sandelman.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.0 (sbh17.songbird.com [72.52.113.66]); Tue, 23 Sep 2014 07:17:44 -0700 (PDT) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tools-discuss/3OFarjVOjyG405ev5jQkkQnCBJ0 Cc: Richard Barnes , Tools Team Discussion , Robert Sparks Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Wondering about moving some aliases to be real lists X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: dcrocker@bbiw.net List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 14:18:17 -0000 On 9/23/2014 6:48 AM, Michael Richardson wrote: > Dave Crocker wrote: > > Mailing lists mess with the message text and, therefore, /do/ break DKIM > > signatures. > > yeah, but they change which IP address is sending the message with the given From: DKIM has nothing to do with the IP address. And, by the way, it also really has nothing to do with any other message field, such as From. > > So while aliasing isn't the same as pure relaying, it's very close, > > since it only message with a part of the SMTP envelope. > > > SPF authentication won't survive aliasing, but DKIM signing should. > > And DMARC is about both. DMARC is about /either/. It does not require both. A valid DKIM signature for a domain that aligns with the rfc5322.From field's domain is sufficient. d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net From nobody Wed Sep 24 08:56:39 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46BF21A00BB for ; Wed, 24 Sep 2014 08:56:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.101 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.101 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_20=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sV6WZzqLRjUk for ; Wed, 24 Sep 2014 08:56:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ie0-x230.google.com (mail-ie0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c03::230]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 037B11A015F for ; Wed, 24 Sep 2014 08:56:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ie0-f176.google.com with SMTP id ar1so11353568iec.7 for ; Wed, 24 Sep 2014 08:56:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=Hf2e5KetZsu0LJ4Yn3bDXsRBHcmXLCZ7ORzcxj4IvSc=; b=k4PU/QA0f5gFXQhFmtPjwqE3cyOUnlh8VPadFXzjEcRH8EctRts0uBcJwgRJVy7528 xFkZmLIQ1wKlsjsTQDn5NBisTd8dIBVFk7aJ9IoDBbhAE806TfZz60s2xvddc1G+SjIg QGhGSG/RBhTDV13aL73D7pojXWss9xBdNBNIg75bBc+j6slgJeYbAIWkCG9L7oQI3uU7 pSVIBkFenQJx8Czol39CljNuFmEtV4zyiN9GbAsJL67ztMpBSxH1EbzB6i5I+hMwQp1M yjwoxbhCjvK5FoJ8JevTmwdj1sdv/WNPeKTsadg5OAysNh9qlWa5ErtR+0ZyOK6W1mBm 6SQA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.51.17.2 with SMTP id ga2mr32724675igd.12.1411574191393; Wed, 24 Sep 2014 08:56:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.107.10.143 with HTTP; Wed, 24 Sep 2014 08:56:31 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 11:56:31 -0400 Message-ID: From: Richard Barnes To: Tools Team Discussion Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tools-discuss/8K5vl01d9XMtHGYLvTHynzxDR9Y Subject: [Tools-discuss] Crash in wiki on tools.ietf.org X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 15:56:37 -0000 STR: 1. Navigate to http://trac.tools.ietf.org/group/iesg/trac/wiki/3rdIEEE802andIETFleaders 2. Click the "login" link In addition, if I go to another page in the IESG wiki and log in, I still don't appear as logged in on this page. Traceback (most recent call last): File "/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/trac/web/api.py", line 441, in send_error data, 'text/html') File "/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/trac/web/chrome.py", line 825, in render_template message = req.session.pop('chrome.%s.%d' % (type_, i)) File "/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/trac/web/api.py", line 216, in __getattr__ value = self.callbacks[name](self) File "/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/trac/web/main.py", line 306, in _get_session return Session(self.env, req) File "/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/trac/web/session.py", line 211, in __init__ self.promote_session(sid) File "/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/trac/web/session.py", line 319, in promote_session self.bake_cookie(0) # expire the cookie File "/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/trac/web/session.py", line 215, in bake_cookie assert self.sid, 'Session ID not set' AssertionError: Session ID not set From nobody Sun Sep 28 10:16:08 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CAFC1A1B67; Sun, 28 Sep 2014 10:16:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -13.695 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-13.695 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DATE_IN_PAST_03_06=1.592, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.786, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id A8DRwPhfyCqY; Sun, 28 Sep 2014 10:16:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alln-iport-2.cisco.com (alln-iport-2.cisco.com [173.37.142.89]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 585041A0371; Sun, 28 Sep 2014 10:16:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=947; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1411924563; x=1413134163; h=message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:subject:references: in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=kGyvDWCWzxK78Px6cB9vG5/93ro/iGCeWsCpCH0sXJo=; b=N1IsJT1OmL4As0DOphw34jVSPzZpDCN6o06w3DEmO6IwrpIiMGV0HdfK a8tj4Zmioa986pJVR7q1X/eO3aiym43q0HUkRq8UjDlGuvCmwb2jn8GZN q6YJAi4Foz/qgLl+tJEw35SxtlOZnFCqgjf4uDT9FtaFUL9+IXSwJsTLX Y=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AusFAKVBKFStJA2G/2dsb2JhbABgJ4JngSrRXQJ7FgF7hAQBAQMBOEAGCwshFg8JAwIBAgFFBwwGAgEBiDIIvmcYj0ZfhEsBBJ0oh1KOC4NlOy+BBoFEAQEB X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.04,615,1406592000"; d="scan'208";a="82069870" Received: from alln-core-12.cisco.com ([173.36.13.134]) by alln-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 28 Sep 2014 17:16:03 +0000 Received: from [10.82.249.232] (rtp-vpn6-487.cisco.com [10.82.249.232]) by alln-core-12.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s8SHG2pK019894; Sun, 28 Sep 2014 17:16:02 GMT Message-ID: <5427F9B6.8080805@cisco.com> Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2014 14:06:14 +0200 From: Benoit Claise User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: adrian@olddog.co.uk, iesg@ietf.org, tools-discuss@ietf.org References: <06bf01cfd3ee$4a1d5ff0$de581fd0$@olddog.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <06bf01cfd3ee$4a1d5ff0$de581fd0$@olddog.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tools-discuss/tygwxbbzJEBpyqNe8wRYEg73Tho Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Wondering about moving some aliases to be real lists X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2014 17:16:05 -0000 Adrian, In OPS, we had both ops-chairs@ietf.org and a list. We discovered some inconsistencies between the two. ops-chairs is auto-generated, and always right. In the end, we removed the list. Bottom line: make sure they're consistent ... or maybe the trick is to have a new list, with a single member ops-chairs@ietf.org? Regards, Benoit > Hi, > > In RTG we have been happily using rtg-chairs@ietf.org as a good communication > tool for the chairs to share information and ideas. However, this is an alias > not a list, so there is no archive. > > We're wondering about migrating to an archived list with restricted membership > and limited access to the archive. > > Does anyone have any thoughts for or against? > One question is whether the membership of a mailman list can be automated. > Consider, for example, that the IESG list is manually updated as IESG members > come and go. > > Thanks, > Adrian > > From nobody Sun Sep 28 12:02:06 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 384261A1BC8; Sun, 28 Sep 2014 12:02:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4ej5dkpDuz53; Sun, 28 Sep 2014 12:02:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp5.iomartmail.com (asmtp5.iomartmail.com [62.128.201.176]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 67A311A1BC6; Sun, 28 Sep 2014 12:02:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp5.iomartmail.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by asmtp5.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id s8SJ1vS0027814; Sun, 28 Sep 2014 20:01:57 +0100 Received: from 950129200 ([65.114.129.62]) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp5.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id s8SJ1tpe027796 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Sun, 28 Sep 2014 20:01:56 +0100 From: "Adrian Farrel" To: "'Benoit Claise'" , , References: <06bf01cfd3ee$4a1d5ff0$de581fd0$@olddog.co.uk> <5427F9B6.8080805@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <5427F9B6.8080805@cisco.com> Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2014 20:01:51 +0100 Message-ID: <013601cfdb4e$aab95b40$002c11c0$@olddog.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQFhIxHAIeqVI3YEajyqc6AB75Jb0wHcyt0WnOVwO2A= Content-Language: en-gb X-TM-AS-MML: disable X-TM-AS-Product-Ver: IMSS-7.1.0.1576-7.5.0.1018-20982.002 X-TM-AS-Result: No--22.756-10.0-31-10 X-imss-scan-details: No--22.756-10.0-31-10 X-TMASE-MatchedRID: u7Yf2n7Ca/3u31/g7B8QDtjko+KiQPUGv8jdqvFOu+IifM7JMNHW683j ZEBv99cRQZ6svIellgPxTwx4UJIMcgHu7QwNULrhBSRvGZl8inUZskwWqoib3GNaiBF7CFNSPrM cTVgfnXDQkGj4hVOCccrwwM67bcRV+VdtpE9/9fZpkKPFjEzl6N4CyCoU5HLbPlG+gER+0nFoov Fhogfo0KrTmxXu7ddXXmwg6oPgxpVzTPHfIwf6zES2B/NHMxrXK8S/fldsZTR/sUNganJerfYMW Pjdy+D4an8mim1FRL1JEN+iMW1Ppf3U81cqAEOZ5gCHftmwEMJ9LQinZ4QefL6qvLNjDYTwfY9h sM0xN70qtq5d3cxkNQP90fJP9eHt Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tools-discuss/yWAK63d27tEedgpxJRpNTMhHzSI Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Wondering about moving some aliases to be real lists X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: adrian@olddog.co.uk List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2014 19:02:04 -0000 I just spent 10 seconds going "Oh Benoit is so smart. Damn! Why didn't I think of that" Then I remembered the archive problem - we want the archives to be closed to all but list members, but we *do* want the list members to be able to see them. I guess normal service has been restored - Benoit is as dumb as I am ;-) A > -----Original Message----- > From: Benoit Claise [mailto:bclaise@cisco.com] > Sent: 28 September 2014 13:06 > To: adrian@olddog.co.uk; iesg@ietf.org; tools-discuss@ietf.org > Subject: Re: Wondering about moving some aliases to be real lists > > Adrian, > > In OPS, we had both ops-chairs@ietf.org and a list. We discovered some > inconsistencies between the two. > ops-chairs is auto-generated, and always right. In the end, we removed > the list. > Bottom line: make sure they're consistent ... or maybe the trick is to > have a new list, with a single member ops-chairs@ietf.org? > > Regards, Benoit > > > Hi, > > > > In RTG we have been happily using rtg-chairs@ietf.org as a good > communication > > tool for the chairs to share information and ideas. However, this is an alias > > not a list, so there is no archive. > > > > We're wondering about migrating to an archived list with restricted > membership > > and limited access to the archive. > > > > Does anyone have any thoughts for or against? > > One question is whether the membership of a mailman list can be automated. > > Consider, for example, that the IESG list is manually updated as IESG members > > come and go. > > > > Thanks, > > Adrian > > > > From nobody Sun Sep 28 12:54:39 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56DC41A1BC8; Sun, 28 Sep 2014 12:54:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -15.287 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-15.287 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.786, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CiJ__IXo_Em5; Sun, 28 Sep 2014 12:54:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-1.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-1.cisco.com [173.37.86.72]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EF34B1A1BB3; Sun, 28 Sep 2014 12:54:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=1685; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1411934077; x=1413143677; h=message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:subject:references: in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=2Pf/+cZEPZ0IGr4lWqeFZ20xN4pcZS2uN9hy0kUevJ0=; b=Ku54vwfleDcDbkfZQBiTR2sZKbhRpRNFu2WXTl2gtCRSBkifQdzHh7+B DbPlaj5pHqAivcjK88xaUpHV/qdr3E+9MgRhRyhPJPdK8YYpNqC98Qv8I gvlIuPmbbDOqNsOqc5BW9dw3+t+x59CSQq/nMDBv++nyVpesthYjjbV+y w=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgQFALBmKFStJV2S/2dsb2JhbABggw7TDQJ7FgF7hAMBAQEEOEANBAsRBAEBChYIBwkDAgECATQJCAcMBgIBAYg6vw4BF49GXwaERQEEnSiHUo4Lg2U7L4EGgUQBAQE X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.04,615,1406592000"; d="scan'208";a="358723327" Received: from rcdn-core-10.cisco.com ([173.37.93.146]) by rcdn-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 28 Sep 2014 19:54:36 +0000 Received: from [10.82.234.186] (rtp-vpn5-696.cisco.com [10.82.234.186]) by rcdn-core-10.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s8SJsZLN011579; Sun, 28 Sep 2014 19:54:35 GMT Message-ID: <5428677B.8050701@cisco.com> Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2014 21:54:35 +0200 From: Benoit Claise User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: adrian@olddog.co.uk, iesg@ietf.org, tools-discuss@ietf.org References: <06bf01cfd3ee$4a1d5ff0$de581fd0$@olddog.co.uk> <5427F9B6.8080805@cisco.com> <013601cfdb4e$aab95b40$002c11c0$@olddog.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <013601cfdb4e$aab95b40$002c11c0$@olddog.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tools-discuss/ClWq2Efb-zkyASAd74RXys9EYaM Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Wondering about moving some aliases to be real lists X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2014 19:54:38 -0000 Happy to help brother :-) B. > I just spent 10 seconds going "Oh Benoit is so smart. Damn! Why didn't I think > of that" > Then I remembered the archive problem - we want the archives to be closed to all > but list members, but we *do* want the list members to be able to see them. > > > > I guess normal service has been restored - Benoit is as dumb as I am ;-) > > A > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Benoit Claise [mailto:bclaise@cisco.com] >> Sent: 28 September 2014 13:06 >> To: adrian@olddog.co.uk; iesg@ietf.org; tools-discuss@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: Wondering about moving some aliases to be real lists >> >> Adrian, >> >> In OPS, we had both ops-chairs@ietf.org and a list. We discovered some >> inconsistencies between the two. >> ops-chairs is auto-generated, and always right. In the end, we removed >> the list. >> Bottom line: make sure they're consistent ... or maybe the trick is to >> have a new list, with a single member ops-chairs@ietf.org? >> >> Regards, Benoit >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> In RTG we have been happily using rtg-chairs@ietf.org as a good >> communication >>> tool for the chairs to share information and ideas. However, this is an > alias >>> not a list, so there is no archive. >>> >>> We're wondering about migrating to an archived list with restricted >> membership >>> and limited access to the archive. >>> >>> Does anyone have any thoughts for or against? >>> One question is whether the membership of a mailman list can be automated. >>> Consider, for example, that the IESG list is manually updated as IESG > members >>> come and go. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Adrian >>> >>> > . > From nobody Mon Sep 29 08:31:38 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A2901A87B0; Mon, 29 Sep 2014 08:31:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.5 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.5 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QcxhVPHUvGLJ; Mon, 29 Sep 2014 08:31:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sbh17.songbird.com (sbh17.songbird.com [72.52.113.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47ACF1A8799; Mon, 29 Sep 2014 08:31:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.66] (76-218-8-156.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net [76.218.8.156]) (authenticated bits=0) by sbh17.songbird.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id s8TFVDxw024450 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Mon, 29 Sep 2014 08:31:21 -0700 Message-ID: <54297B31.3060709@dcrocker.net> Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2014 08:30:57 -0700 From: Dave Crocker Organization: Brandenburg InternetWorking User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: adrian@olddog.co.uk, "'Benoit Claise'" , iesg@ietf.org, tools-discuss@ietf.org References: <06bf01cfd3ee$4a1d5ff0$de581fd0$@olddog.co.uk> <5427F9B6.8080805@cisco.com> <013601cfdb4e$aab95b40$002c11c0$@olddog.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <013601cfdb4e$aab95b40$002c11c0$@olddog.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.0 (sbh17.songbird.com [72.52.113.66]); Mon, 29 Sep 2014 08:31:24 -0700 (PDT) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tools-discuss/79hA0YxJCCevRF4YwOfKpDo_Ros Subject: [Tools-discuss] Archive access models - Re: Wondering about moving some aliases to be real lists X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: dcrocker@bbiw.net List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2014 15:31:35 -0000 On 9/28/2014 12:01 PM, Adrian Farrel wrote: > Then I remembered the archive problem - we want the archives to be closed to all > but list members, but we *do* want the list members to be able to see them. Do you want the archive open to only /current/ list members, or to anyone who has ever been a member? The former might sound more naturally reasonable, but note that means new folk will have access to earlier archive entries from previous members, but those earlier folk won't have access to more recent postings. So, what is the management/privacy justification for that particular restriction model? Or any other particular model? In addition, over time, the number of people who will have been members gets quite large, which starts approximating 'everyone'. This, too, raises the question of what the actual privacy model is and why? If privacy of the group's communications is of meaningful concern, this probably requires an archive model that has a fresh archive for every cycle of membership. And that, of course, leaves the question of who gets to see earlier versions of the archive... d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net From nobody Mon Sep 29 08:35:44 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5BF51A87C8; Mon, 29 Sep 2014 08:35:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Vl8Ekqbikp2A; Mon, 29 Sep 2014 08:35:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp2.iomartmail.com (asmtp2.iomartmail.com [62.128.201.249]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 31F3A1A87A1; Mon, 29 Sep 2014 08:35:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp2.iomartmail.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by asmtp2.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id s8TFZVd9028402; Mon, 29 Sep 2014 16:35:31 +0100 Received: from 950129200 ([12.133.26.10]) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp2.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id s8TFZSrG028383 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Mon, 29 Sep 2014 16:35:29 +0100 From: "Adrian Farrel" To: , "'Benoit Claise'" , , References: <06bf01cfd3ee$4a1d5ff0$de581fd0$@olddog.co.uk> <5427F9B6.8080805@cisco.com> <013601cfdb4e$aab95b40$002c11c0$@olddog.co.uk> <54297B31.3060709@dcrocker.net> In-Reply-To: <54297B31.3060709@dcrocker.net> Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2014 16:35:25 +0100 Message-ID: <037701cfdbfa$fe8c53b0$fba4fb10$@olddog.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQFhIxHAIeqVI3YEajyqc6AB75Jb0wHcyt0WAsLq1iQCK1khIZy/V0RQ Content-Language: en-gb X-TM-AS-MML: disable X-TM-AS-Product-Ver: IMSS-7.1.0.1576-7.5.0.1018-20984.000 X-TM-AS-Result: No--18.348-10.0-31-10 X-imss-scan-details: No--18.348-10.0-31-10 X-TMASE-MatchedRID: L8tZF6zWW2rMy6K24fisq/HkpkyUphL9Ud7Bjfo+5jQAhmnHHeGnvTc/ pey/d/oNSel7Da5+ZUEXbxq1cQP/bSixDnTIszDOBEfU2vugRF2Ms7LXcKBvj5722hDqHosT6mW XQTudWRdSFmHeCaa+hJ0N70b6uSpfLZXKgIDET/+4jAucHcCqnUDnBZmMFwDyQQ1XgvCe7sE2y3 tW7HZmzuGRurpsoFp/vd5SlouppHvAl7Z7y1eR5wArNgt5xpQYVBDQSDMig9GbKItl61J/ycnjL TA/UDoApPKClyoUSzyNo+PRbWqfRJBlLa6MK1y4 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tools-discuss/NKIj6YG5CL7VLsDib6nVfNRxPCw Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Archive access models - Re: Wondering about moving some aliases to be real lists X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: adrian@olddog.co.uk List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2014 15:35:43 -0000 This is a good point, and means that Benoit's proposal might do the trick. > -----Original Message----- > From: Dave Crocker [mailto:dhc@dcrocker.net] > Sent: 29 September 2014 16:31 > To: adrian@olddog.co.uk; 'Benoit Claise'; iesg@ietf.org; tools-discuss@ietf.org > Subject: Archive access models - Re: [Tools-discuss] Wondering about moving > some aliases to be real lists > > On 9/28/2014 12:01 PM, Adrian Farrel wrote: > > Then I remembered the archive problem - we want the archives to be closed to > all > > but list members, but we *do* want the list members to be able to see them. > > > Do you want the archive open to only /current/ list members, or to > anyone who has ever been a member? > > The former might sound more naturally reasonable, but note that means > new folk will have access to earlier archive entries from previous > members, but those earlier folk won't have access to more recent postings. > > So, what is the management/privacy justification for that particular > restriction model? Or any other particular model? > > In addition, over time, the number of people who will have been members > gets quite large, which starts approximating 'everyone'. This, too, > raises the question of what the actual privacy model is and why? > > If privacy of the group's communications is of meaningful concern, this > probably requires an archive model that has a fresh archive for every > cycle of membership. > > And that, of course, leaves the question of who gets to see earlier > versions of the archive... > > d/ > > -- > Dave Crocker > Brandenburg InternetWorking > bbiw.net From nobody Tue Sep 30 09:09:18 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50CAC1A1A5C for ; Tue, 30 Sep 2014 09:09:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.276 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.276 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=0.723, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sAQZ1UJENya8 for ; Tue, 30 Sep 2014 09:09:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-we0-x229.google.com (mail-we0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c03::229]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CCB3E1A1A09 for ; Tue, 30 Sep 2014 09:09:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-we0-f169.google.com with SMTP id w61so2580981wes.28 for ; Tue, 30 Sep 2014 09:09:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=VwyBVNyEhn9qLGYdaOTdERI60GmGgujs87h69FNtmHU=; b=ZmTyPq44muGl5D3YdanzmwzntHrPkd+CD68bJvkSFH8HL0PHKVrCF4GhZ6u3AH/QWg JxkKAVJarkR4hBlhnGWRiGCdIlvxn0QocShGsbTOhdPO/WRd7iBKFEz3414Oxl1fNFef VX/SYKt/1rEgpW7++6JosMiGGkCtDTgXW6hmJBFxRaP5d/8jMyCR72EPVMtByOEQgJKn ZvWqk8g+RZIymdCtiD/JVKLBYNZZgAALslLW1jOe/cWj53Rydz7TZdBykrY9PVH2Q+Yx CdSWUhhx2DMFZiMVZSdU+P64Ca5gqNWKra0al5npf5XTFhaTuqP1iDqX/eP2AJ1X+1fQ aTkQ== X-Received: by 10.180.97.101 with SMTP id dz5mr6915758wib.52.1412093352144; Tue, 30 Sep 2014 09:09:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.2.0.78] (85-250-123-108.bb.netvision.net.il. [85.250.123.108]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id ey6sm15622803wib.16.2014.09.30.09.09.10 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 30 Sep 2014 09:09:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <542AD5A5.4030108@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 19:09:09 +0300 From: Yaron Sheffer User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.1.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tools-discuss@ietf.org Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tools-discuss/34i9DlYcKZs9B7gwIfnRusW1cbA Subject: [Tools-discuss] Outdated I-D reference X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 16:09:15 -0000 Hi,

I am running xml2rfc 2.4.8 locally, on Ubuntu. When referencing my own I-D.ietf-uta-tls-attacks, it insists on generating a ref to version -01 of the draft, even though -04 is available (and appears on http://xml2rfc.ietf.org/public/rfc/bibxml3/). The online xml2rfc tool works fine. Any ideas?

Thanks,
    Yaron