From nobody Mon Jun 3 09:25:05 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2140612004D for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2019 09:25:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id S1rTSxYMKMtz for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2019 09:25:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3:216:3eff:fe7c:d1f3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7566F1204BE for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2019 09:25:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.21]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 394E03808A for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2019 12:23:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: by sandelman.ca (Postfix, from userid 179) id 53C4D12EE; Mon, 3 Jun 2019 12:24:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5263A107E for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2019 12:24:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Attribution: mcr X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 24.5.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: [Tools-discuss] xml2rfc.ietf.org unavailable X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2019 16:25:04 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain when running xml2rfc, it reaches out to raise RemoteDisconnected("Remote end closed connection without" urllib3.exceptions.ProtocolError: ('Connection aborted.', RemoteDisconnected('Remote end closed connection without response',)) I thought that this had been put behind cloudflare, and was no longer a "tools" item, but I've learnt that was not the case (yet?) If I wait a bit, it usually resolves itself. Running it now, tracing to be sure of the URL which is failing, for some reason, this time it is happy with the files which were cached. (Heisenbug) Given that this is all static content, it seems like we should be able to have it more widely available under the same URL. BTW: I noticed strac'ing that it actually tries to load the URL as a file: stat("https://xml2rfc.ietf.org/public/rfc/bibxml/reference.RFC.2119.xml", 0x7ffed1b5a650) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory) I guess, because the prefix might be a path. -- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAlz1SdsACgkQgItw+93Q 3WXHSQf/aZcZKdHYTGoSxgXLx/ru04QrUS03QGJS3i0zG3MKGv2R9T8EcX2S4KFE hfxCiEw94c7kU/ZDtazZ+y50rxW3+1+Ir90Rzi4QS3dLQwuMCuiYEiL13y/qO6gR ukJ6ri6bXCF9kRaAwReqHxSI63r90n9JdcJmaEh26tJ8nnAiyxKyYdjFsCsIw3+4 eT60tn+FIkwcEUa43H9sVAdmH16DPIs6xRtCnwx3pPDRiO7SnT/MuBZ9cI9c40vR r7UmHHdslmxN8ntiM1CS9ygh59mvtHBQxhIEdmPx8IKqWr/+LP1RIlfGLkUa9WNO U6hwcE8/U68dB6NBt7V53/XDhiXO1A== =sjQZ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Mon Jun 3 12:49:24 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4994312081A for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2019 12:49:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.197 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.197 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 19aJ6y87QpQI for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2019 12:49:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5B455120811 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2019 12:49:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.0.185] (unknown [178.132.72.106]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 45HlxW0yFFzyVk; Mon, 3 Jun 2019 21:49:19 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <12561.1559579099@localhost> Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2019 21:49:18 +0200 Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 581284156.714285-68f6e957797604f4090994a11e8eafff Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <12561.1559579099@localhost> To: Michael Richardson X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] xml2rfc.ietf.org unavailable X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2019 19:49:23 -0000 Maybe I have said that before, but I seem to have better experiences = with getting bibxml from xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org over xml2rfc.ietf.org. Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Mon Jun 3 15:14:30 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 334D0120120 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2019 15:14:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.44 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.44 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RDNS_NONE=0.793, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OtNDZa9Num-4 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2019 15:14:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (unknown [209.87.249.16]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B32D71200FE for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2019 15:14:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (unknown [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2:56b2:3ff:fe0b:d84]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 712F5380BE; Mon, 3 Jun 2019 18:13:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: by sandelman.ca (Postfix, from userid 179) id CC4B916A5; Mon, 3 Jun 2019 18:14:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id C78AEE69; Mon, 3 Jun 2019 18:14:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: Carsten Bormann cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org In-Reply-To: References: <12561.1559579099@localhost> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 24.5.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] xml2rfc.ietf.org unavailable X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2019 22:14:29 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Carsten Bormann wrote: > Maybe I have said that before, but I seem to have better experiences > with getting bibxml from xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org over xml2rfc.ietf.org. Oh. I was going to say that they are now aliases for each other, but they are not. xml2rfc.ietf.org is on cloudflare. my xml2rfc was 2.9.6 (on my desktop), and it is now 2.22.3 after upgrade. So maybe I'll talk to a different URL by default now. (I could go look into the source, but this way, it's much more adventurous...) -- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAlz1m8EACgkQgItw+93Q 3WW9Ygf+OOazmWSctUjI0ONtx5E2Is3Hg6CRdcsul8CJdGEGu74yYWFyUjmrUTJ2 MF6+um2uMsKruXuMDE8m8T90Xfrk4h6kAciF2QGsxnEt95Cheo7EjemY3z3hE8RZ x2/qQfDjXIUbkxbvtPeOUR3dCwKbf/qoXrVJb2kKwBuMFRk8+hWHCaiczaLjnLMu nONNk9KSqjsvQgAe3ZDI4Wy+q4giQaXNDnAuY8QpVZQEdxP7Xr3l3wj28WCiERd7 oVm58oN0kgdKid2ECOTXfuZidyjXXsrUzd7HCayc8ESPUcNNng5w7n/uRfYBsSvv ZTCPGB+IY1meRD0CpvBa1RXFacqKGw== =3f1t -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Tue Jun 4 04:04:04 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08C0D1200E9 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2019 04:04:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fBc2xHDTgX0d for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2019 04:04:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zinfandel.tools.ietf.org (zinfandel.tools.ietf.org [IPv6:2001:1890:126c::1:2a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6FE6B1200D6 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2019 04:04:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from h-202-242.a357.priv.bahnhof.se ([158.174.202.242]:58565 helo=tannat.localdomain) by zinfandel.tools.ietf.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1hY7EU-0002SU-E4; Tue, 04 Jun 2019 04:03:59 -0700 To: Michael Richardson , Carsten Bormann References: <12561.1559579099@localhost> <8533.1559600065@localhost> Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org From: Henrik Levkowetz Message-ID: Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2019 13:03:50 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <8533.1559600065@localhost> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="g7bB5qJIEAoflh5xLN2j8jou1k5SuhETo" X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 158.174.202.242 X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: tools-discuss@ietf.org, cabo@tzi.org, mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1 (built Mon, 26 Dec 2011 16:24:06 +0000) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on zinfandel.tools.ietf.org) X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] xml2rfc.ietf.org unavailable X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2019 11:04:03 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --g7bB5qJIEAoflh5xLN2j8jou1k5SuhETo Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="fSiHVc3RISD79jGuWWHClmX4CdeuQKcBF"; protected-headers="v1" From: Henrik Levkowetz To: Michael Richardson , Carsten Bormann Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org Message-ID: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] xml2rfc.ietf.org unavailable References: <12561.1559579099@localhost> <8533.1559600065@localhost> In-Reply-To: <8533.1559600065@localhost> --fSiHVc3RISD79jGuWWHClmX4CdeuQKcBF Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2019-06-04 00:14, Michael Richardson wrote: >=20 > Carsten Bormann wrote: > > Maybe I have said that before, but I seem to have better experien= ces > > with getting bibxml from xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org over xml2rfc.ietf= =2Eorg. >=20 > Oh. I was going to say that they are now aliases for each other, but th= ey are > not. xml2rfc.ietf.org is on cloudflare. Oh, bother! _That_ must be the reason why the redirects fail regularly recently. I'll have the secretariat change that. Henrik > my xml2rfc was 2.9.6 (on my desktop), and it is now 2.22.3 after upgrad= e. > So maybe I'll talk to a different URL by default now. > (I could go look into the source, but this way, it's much more adventur= ous...) >=20 > -- > Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works > -=3D IPv6 IoT consulting =3D- >=20 >=20 >=20 > ___________________________________________________________ > Tools-discuss mailing list > Tools-discuss@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss >=20 > Please report datatracker.ietf.org and mailarchive.ietf.org > bugs at http://tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb > or send email to datatracker-project@ietf.org >=20 > Please report tools.ietf.org bugs at > http://tools.ietf.org/tools/issues > or send email to webmaster@tools.ietf.org >=20 --fSiHVc3RISD79jGuWWHClmX4CdeuQKcBF-- --g7bB5qJIEAoflh5xLN2j8jou1k5SuhETo Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEEifjc5+rnL1MJBcZSTptXS4+7FxoFAlz2UBYACgkQTptXS4+7 FxqfZQ/9FSBtbGgXhw9eoy0+lhBYW7xVsFD8c9m4/mQoh8MKoob6YicUquYLAw4x wRoGjnTrgcBWL70T0dNSbG2HIZgbgI9pounUOJHVc82FeoUru30GdSpdNDWzVg3c GeH3019hf1fvMRPn+uKt+JBCrIIQuX4SdMXYtDvfT2r16fmbcWagi+xCrXQjLPQU yM/maEh+hvRd1It4RfWUCru4Np1X7ZNbVgIlBi+RmmkGekhbX5cDsY80P2sg5P1v PrrCfMnWtCNwRCbxSu62N53+htIDlFI6vPv8aoAMFUUeqljzhngpAUsk/RwR814C 8p7vW3q+1zFQGF8WBb/BWEsSF82kLWFyZkGXqhXS/n5MYf59bArjUiy38Bq+EDtQ opuiOsgtnQx4H1e0Rf9IhoWfpdG9SI9EFj8YgCKoc0siXUJTUsoVtJLfmq9Ft7Xx 07ttQWto2xabOPcwwjiogBl1Fi0RC0M2hu/y0yYPMNW6xHR2o7toes1hKwonaopF 8eZh6jvSMg/mFQX0qM1xLpVQnPbBgGzrBtvD0YguZ+40HcnRA7W7wIXmFASg8sTU OFWwITGjw57VP40KZXmn9GEZv/o8UiVRWbuelhb1KLS5MXuPJ7hb0NjsHDIhhfir ZagLwVW5ZW1aAG45XQxQsulo1EHzig4rpw3g0SHX3Gzh/v2fEic= =Jlwf -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --g7bB5qJIEAoflh5xLN2j8jou1k5SuhETo-- From nobody Tue Jun 4 04:14:52 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 191AA12006D for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2019 04:14:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pYRmclsO62dt for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2019 04:14:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zinfandel.tools.ietf.org (zinfandel.tools.ietf.org [IPv6:2001:1890:126c::1:2a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6135012002F for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2019 04:14:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from h-202-242.a357.priv.bahnhof.se ([158.174.202.242]:58592 helo=tannat.localdomain) by zinfandel.tools.ietf.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1hY7Ow-0000LU-HI; Tue, 04 Jun 2019 04:14:47 -0700 To: Michael Richardson , Carsten Bormann References: <12561.1559579099@localhost> <8533.1559600065@localhost> Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org From: Henrik Levkowetz Message-ID: <69282c96-64ac-157e-6f63-df3fbfc70225@levkowetz.com> Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2019 13:14:38 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="dG3apFaPJQdGV0OxCGfKPFOP6vX1qWfnj" X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 158.174.202.242 X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: tools-discuss@ietf.org, cabo@tzi.org, mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1 (built Mon, 26 Dec 2011 16:24:06 +0000) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on zinfandel.tools.ietf.org) X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] xml2rfc.ietf.org unavailable X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2019 11:14:50 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --dG3apFaPJQdGV0OxCGfKPFOP6vX1qWfnj Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="UpsswKMJLRNihgUUqdwC9k2CRboEaNJmd"; protected-headers="v1" From: Henrik Levkowetz To: Michael Richardson , Carsten Bormann Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org Message-ID: <69282c96-64ac-157e-6f63-df3fbfc70225@levkowetz.com> Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] xml2rfc.ietf.org unavailable References: <12561.1559579099@localhost> <8533.1559600065@localhost> In-Reply-To: --UpsswKMJLRNihgUUqdwC9k2CRboEaNJmd Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Michael, On 2019-06-04 13:03, Henrik Levkowetz wrote: >=20 >=20 > On 2019-06-04 00:14, Michael Richardson wrote: >>=20 >> Carsten Bormann wrote: >> > Maybe I have said that before, but I seem to have better experie= nces >> > with getting bibxml from xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org over xml2rfc.iet= f.org. >>=20 >> Oh. I was going to say that they are now aliases for each other, but t= hey are >> not. xml2rfc.ietf.org is on cloudflare. >=20 > Oh, bother! _That_ must be the reason why the redirects fail regularly= > recently. I'll have the secretariat change that. Looking into this some more, I _don't_ find that xml2rfc.ietf.org is served by cloudflare, as far as I can tell here: $ host xml2rfc.ietf.org xml2rfc.ietf.org is an alias for ietf.org. ietf.org has address 4.31.198.44 ietf.org has IPv6 address 2001:1900:3001:11::2c ietf.org mail is handled by 0 mail.ietf.org. Compare that to www.ietf.org: $ host www.ietf.org www.ietf.org is an alias for www.ietf.org.cdn.cloudflare.net. www.ietf.org.cdn.cloudflare.net has address 104.20.1.85 www.ietf.org.cdn.cloudflare.net has address 104.20.0.85 www.ietf.org.cdn.cloudflare.net has IPv6 address 2606:4700:10::6814:155= www.ietf.org.cdn.cloudflare.net has IPv6 address 2606:4700:10::6814:55 Could you provide more details on what makes you believe xml2rfc.ietf.org= is served by cloudflare? Henrik >=20 > Henrik >=20 >> my xml2rfc was 2.9.6 (on my desktop), and it is now 2.22.3 after upgra= de. >> So maybe I'll talk to a different URL by default now. >> (I could go look into the source, but this way, it's much more adventu= rous...) >>=20 >> -- >> Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works >> -=3D IPv6 IoT consulting =3D- >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> ___________________________________________________________ >> Tools-discuss mailing list >> Tools-discuss@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss >>=20 >> Please report datatracker.ietf.org and mailarchive.ietf.org >> bugs at http://tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb >> or send email to datatracker-project@ietf.org >>=20 >> Please report tools.ietf.org bugs at >> http://tools.ietf.org/tools/issues >> or send email to webmaster@tools.ietf.org >>=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > ___________________________________________________________ > Tools-discuss mailing list > Tools-discuss@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss >=20 > Please report datatracker.ietf.org and mailarchive.ietf.org > bugs at http://tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb > or send email to datatracker-project@ietf.org >=20 > Please report tools.ietf.org bugs at > http://tools.ietf.org/tools/issues > or send email to webmaster@tools.ietf.org >=20 --UpsswKMJLRNihgUUqdwC9k2CRboEaNJmd-- --dG3apFaPJQdGV0OxCGfKPFOP6vX1qWfnj Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEEifjc5+rnL1MJBcZSTptXS4+7FxoFAlz2Up4ACgkQTptXS4+7 FxqYrRAAk1IDJqd0BXcbZqD3pVPg6Gg1vDNHAKPhaj7hh23CZouGNyg9+EJ/Lme/ +jVP6UW+3XCdOoJ8ByApn+Ka1Seba4Jmv+V2ijV1WbmKY11mTJWdAQDZ0UQ8+YRT QusHT0ObppyNWwBM3w5PDfEigLK71m69N1J6zTTLGmMC9HFsJxtirGYvxnd10oVE 6O2EXJfcgwXRuBg1nrnhqlS8NES4Idupie+KDYfFu6Xk7mVMuLTRGWGUMi86nMv/ 5dzMSCPXIE+ypoq+FQH4sY6gGxLp3ULbWz9PJ7IVA2Ng8KFhKUdpt3bTrOquPFtq qoU3djpxg0AzSExx8NJJdaQKeLIbmWHR61z+O47mOyo9zRL3AS809X7/n2rhGtRv Xk7zY6nT97lROkriSgJdMKl3vWcQEnFdnVmU6CWQkqFTDT4jmDb8fSt1mVjRTcd9 kcpPSYtjhJCjTESvOnnW2YGMgwg1NzHmsRyxlV7i1nMWBNHp8dCq7tEANEY3dczp Cn3uHNYzUYqT9HCbCIrNzC7UYv3SoclZTDQgyhEnHuCRgejt99kQiTNGsUZqkrRH a+guNiCb3a+V6lnGY4p6uEvf1DExeBhARdo0OXkIdxNCwd9h/ZyHfpELQ5wwE18t HqLLtmcx9P6mXJkme5jQ940hrsxLW3Iz9JDm0rN+vm2Gehm1G9Q= =yQtk -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --dG3apFaPJQdGV0OxCGfKPFOP6vX1qWfnj-- From nobody Tue Jun 4 07:46:10 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39372120088 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2019 07:46:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.441 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.441 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RDNS_NONE=0.793, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9xOd4RL-h5FO for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2019 07:46:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (unknown [209.87.249.16]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7752512002F for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2019 07:46:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (unknown [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2:56b2:3ff:fe0b:d84]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96184380BE; Tue, 4 Jun 2019 10:44:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: by sandelman.ca (Postfix, from userid 179) id E55381027; Tue, 4 Jun 2019 10:46:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id E231AE69; Tue, 4 Jun 2019 10:46:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: Henrik Levkowetz cc: Carsten Bormann , tools-discuss@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <69282c96-64ac-157e-6f63-df3fbfc70225@levkowetz.com> References: <12561.1559579099@localhost> <8533.1559600065@localhost> <69282c96-64ac-157e-6f63-df3fbfc70225@levkowetz.com> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 24.5.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] xml2rfc.ietf.org unavailable X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2019 14:46:08 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Henrik Levkowetz wrote: >> On 2019-06-04 00:14, Michael Richardson wrote: >>> >>> Carsten Bormann wrote: >>> > Maybe I have said that before, but I seem to have better experiences >>> > with getting bibxml from xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org over xml2rfc.ietf.org. >>> >>> Oh. I was going to say that they are now aliases for each other, but they are >>> not. xml2rfc.ietf.org is on cloudflare. >> >> Oh, bother! _That_ must be the reason why the redirects fail regularly >> recently. I'll have the secretariat change that. > Looking into this some more, I _don't_ find that xml2rfc.ietf.org is > served by cloudflare, as far as I can tell here: > $ host xml2rfc.ietf.org > xml2rfc.ietf.org is an alias for ietf.org. > ietf.org has address 4.31.198.44 > ietf.org has IPv6 address 2001:1900:3001:11::2c > ietf.org mail is handled by 0 mail.ietf.org. > Compare that to www.ietf.org: > $ host www.ietf.org > www.ietf.org is an alias for www.ietf.org.cdn.cloudflare.net. > www.ietf.org.cdn.cloudflare.net has address 104.20.1.85 > www.ietf.org.cdn.cloudflare.net has address 104.20.0.85 > www.ietf.org.cdn.cloudflare.net has IPv6 address 2606:4700:10::6814:155 > www.ietf.org.cdn.cloudflare.net has IPv6 address 2606:4700:10::6814:55 > Could you provide more details on what makes you believe xml2rfc.ietf.org > is served by cloudflare? ignorance!!! I assumed that "ietf.org" was now always pointing at cloudflare, not realizing that www.ief.org pointed at that longer name. I also noticed that xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org and xml2rfc.ietf.org were not pointing at the same IP, although I now notice they are on the same subnet, so probably the same host. Given that it's all relatively static content, is there a reason cloudflare couldn't be invoked for the reference.* files? I know that the online xml2rfc utility is at xml2rfc.*, so I'd be happy to have another hostname for the reference files. -- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAlz2hCoACgkQgItw+93Q 3WXEtAgAh65HsDOnaH7gc0Fcsy15iNoKfLYh+Z1GonMg/n4sbdfjvRa+wBVwivXr 4g9TTsJYhpNweSRaZ5VrIDLF/MEjkUkUKCYJLne7NXLsIif5XSPoSt/35azyrxRU QT30o953cEl0Y/YT2O3/yhILXHQFLQfGma5JRkNtAghUvdr0KA+LBTVhWTOMUeta wliozlhc1RlZT1bWwM9edgM+ZVUU42opS7pFYEnjoTG84/atZNm64mbSxwOcJifx u666A/fZEUrfSU7hCl/6k33uZtEVC6JuHUBVroP40VFw1ORXStcK+O4JNmTxO47J m/sc5oz8WAneiGHBmosXyiBKyEEdwg== =3hlv -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Tue Jun 4 09:47:14 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3CB51200D5 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2019 09:47:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4v8JJoD8SdXC for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2019 09:47:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zinfandel.tools.ietf.org (zinfandel.tools.ietf.org [IPv6:2001:1890:126c::1:2a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 581701200B9 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2019 09:47:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from h-202-242.a357.priv.bahnhof.se ([158.174.202.242]:59889 helo=tannat.localdomain) by zinfandel.tools.ietf.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1hYCaa-0002uk-Iv; Tue, 04 Jun 2019 09:47:09 -0700 To: Michael Richardson References: <12561.1559579099@localhost> <8533.1559600065@localhost> <69282c96-64ac-157e-6f63-df3fbfc70225@levkowetz.com> <19960.1559659562@localhost> Cc: Carsten Bormann , tools-discuss@ietf.org From: Henrik Levkowetz Message-ID: <605170cf-eb5b-f358-6f92-70c659edb1f6@levkowetz.com> Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2019 18:46:52 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <19960.1559659562@localhost> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="NXNevX2U3Q6bGhP15eqnQ2RuGMugXED9E" X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 158.174.202.242 X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: tools-discuss@ietf.org, cabo@tzi.org, mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1 (built Mon, 26 Dec 2011 16:24:06 +0000) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on zinfandel.tools.ietf.org) X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] xml2rfc.ietf.org unavailable X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2019 16:47:12 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --NXNevX2U3Q6bGhP15eqnQ2RuGMugXED9E Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Bm74U4dIJAxaT32f1v7rFXo2J4FSSQSpR"; protected-headers="v1" From: Henrik Levkowetz To: Michael Richardson Cc: Carsten Bormann , tools-discuss@ietf.org Message-ID: <605170cf-eb5b-f358-6f92-70c659edb1f6@levkowetz.com> Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] xml2rfc.ietf.org unavailable References: <12561.1559579099@localhost> <8533.1559600065@localhost> <69282c96-64ac-157e-6f63-df3fbfc70225@levkowetz.com> <19960.1559659562@localhost> In-Reply-To: <19960.1559659562@localhost> --Bm74U4dIJAxaT32f1v7rFXo2J4FSSQSpR Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Michael, On 2019-06-04 16:46, Michael Richardson wrote: >=20 > ignorance!!! > I assumed that "ietf.org" was now always pointing at cloudflare, not > realizing that www.ief.org pointed at that longer name. >=20 > I also noticed that xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org and xml2rfc.ietf.org were no= t > pointing at the same IP, although I now notice they are on the same sub= net, > so probably the same host. No, one is the official ietf.org server, the other is one of the tools.ie= tf.org servers. > Given that it's all relatively static content, is there a reason cloudf= lare > couldn't be invoked for the reference.* files? Cloudflare won't cache indefinitely, and if the redirect is not in cache,= you might see exactly the problem we've been seing lately. Serving the redirects isn't heavy on the server. For the tools servers, there are other complications, one being that it's a delegated domain, so would possibly need a new cloudflare contract. See also below WRT a rewrite. The reason the actual content isn't available on the main IETF server, an= d served through cloudflare, is that it's still being generated by legacy T= CL code inherited from Marshall Rose. Getting that running in the first pla= ce involved ferreting out old libs from various places, and I've just not ha= d the energy to organize all of that (through the AMS ops staff) for the ma= in server. Additionally, I think it's really time for a rewrite. That said, the failures to redirect properly started fairly recently, and= I'd like to sort that out -- there's no reason to have that issue. > I know that the online > xml2rfc utility is at xml2rfc.*, so I'd be happy to have another hostna= me > for the reference files. Given the pain we had when transitioning from the repositories being serv= ed from xml.resource.org to xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org, I would not seriously consider another hostname. There are too many files out there being copi= ed and re-used which assume one of the current 2 names (xml2rfc.ietf.org or = the equivalent tools domain). Best regards, Henrik --Bm74U4dIJAxaT32f1v7rFXo2J4FSSQSpR-- --NXNevX2U3Q6bGhP15eqnQ2RuGMugXED9E Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEEifjc5+rnL1MJBcZSTptXS4+7FxoFAlz2oHwACgkQTptXS4+7 FxoI3RAAyXYgfOTGB6T9cM+UoIU5qAToTlpYRSXma8eczKmEVUiuSZ6GBpMqMCIV aNg2hND5A3e64m5HFGxBmLJhur6+pcZMmbtHt/iPb+W0k96Nj73Lxe6pt3EMCOfI x4WUu9keSxWZu8TXLR5uaoRq8NRLD9374xUTqa4R8Nj4wYNp6b9I8/Hd8eVsJ4Qe 8Z4L5+7TY5Fs4GKrp5T63WX+rtqs1eqVFxwkrATQ3WUCMWf3u8nNvT20EHjT8/Gh Fqc9bgZVMNBKLWCBArEQIxnvJHPenYJEgOVa7QoAeJVUbgq/HPUOVjWA/2AGbziF DJM56S7XjGrPTGijzpdlW2KR6H1b2W3bQFuA1uTAytNfMsTzRCh5Ot6kWKqH5z5G GJIAIggZv22a2pdhvodniTGBe8DGK1O3T6XryoQ1M7T1Fd0pDvDMSrkhSeMwUcke UZO++RLZToppWrQlnHo4r//z/GkWqUdUUTnwciiwhNAY+Sgodo+ro1hOJDY8HvGU KUiGXVzdoF6rEX9wOU1ofBIrRLzejyjkPme/Qk4X4Cs47D/Tb4Fn1wPghnWyL7gY T4ieHzQU/+cg9wjeEnczO+fEq8+8Sj4pvr6rzotj+TBMi/DAb2r/kUQJKIyMVm5x 8j0dWD7kyZ03s2vP34+5t3UcpaujFaz/nyGeUrCaQMz7AtMkicc= =NPSw -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --NXNevX2U3Q6bGhP15eqnQ2RuGMugXED9E-- From nobody Tue Jun 4 23:13:28 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 351D6120224 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2019 23:13:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=gmx.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id X9mWM0-KcJf7 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2019 23:13:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.17.21]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0C490120602 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2019 23:13:23 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1559715201; bh=NZY4PUFSONduG26e2bUmUQWITvwQOva4mLtA9wwtXVk=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Subject:To:Cc:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=IKqO/yXes2k5VLvJUm7MI1DdteytNxCdDN6PQU/U6tRPK7XcovTYZ1qfp7aLIDn+i OF8gCbcya+uznkAwSVuz6UPq2ZLJM5Ck4YkFEWmDLD6EBUvWlrQ5/mUskX/Ntr+8X8 7cQ8ntFdbdnSJ977EjI8MHc5zco5QhXgryCbOu5o= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from [192.168.178.124] ([84.171.153.2]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx105 [212.227.17.168]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MgNct-1gvCHT3Fxn-00hxRx; Wed, 05 Jun 2019 07:48:44 +0200 To: Carsten Bormann Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org References: <12561.1559579099@localhost> From: Julian Reschke Message-ID: Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2019 07:48:44 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:XXhyGbcXPFoNPGCksh7oiemu0HiolmYmPGJBOc3OLnn/Ry+h1oJ hwWJi6faWz4QumcJY8tO87iIk/qUD22qGU+byfWpjrhorPI26VedMhxNQ89J6K5kOZLuzZQ WZolBgSLgvqIOCE1LI6i7IOgSCyorhPKTyO9wJ8/tlhBh3MtolMifxGVpqdhNULKg1+w8/p 6Ibxdm0nkeWnvrZUiE9eA== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:YueMTX7vtWU=:JS3jbs1HH2yZBME/nMOqf3 nbxHhuGuc0e/bOZymk/VahgmemQqqoMVJevOONwPbVi6n0hCteNpUdnT8MgP5ihzFzaaufQ3Y WqJc1QrDOstdGov4aJIsgD92YsMUH3wjXn2zspA9QpngUw2wKGgSZCQlmrhERHv0+b48myMOk colxTZI2V3bapQrh4GheQRVzYpGXEKx6Fyc/6HaNIrCHXAZLaEzOjlTCaC3/VIH+fDQ72OMM8 Z9beNBqvKcMHW4gviB/gRlqhk/B4Lvn9SZ9y4rMHZ7RIP/FQn7o26MLkCPJlsIQCGFFgZKk12 gOmxKapBq53e85XcZj+ay4NleLHvejj6vMS7PpUgB3S713I50iEAvpcUdSZ+qahPTs2lC7w1k 8fUesyE+pmDV/d7g4wUAnaQBTZzJr0IUIdr894Yvkk6kwt3FNOTQ29Wbl1QIqzdxqTOfsf+ER YGkLzi8qjLZrnSSq/lXdlkYUfHvolwyTI4yfEn3KdpYC4ya0im9dw1cSHl0H/TNNxg6594s3F aThMEm5D1BX8to4UsuU0jrgAaPaflofR2qOSMch05ycCZuqRovqpi3oyKP4ZylfWUpHuE6f2J a7i1Pwf4LifcGVCsy2UewliMrdZZRi+OS8EmO2rv5xhp+TqW+imohSJJTuX4q7uiN1czfQ46x lbYihjkZSi/IwRVnoIcEbKEzzG7sHYy7C6zCjy8c68H04luvixyuxIwDLJcex5Vw1SjkCzcqY TgiWmwO2uzsY5Me4Y3WsE8pifVeSNGMBSMzbdJ61bFfShobdqrRR/UYhQIn+SpLsHBtr6rCJK xChRGSGzObngffTYPgsLrGYZFBMSki9PunpeknB0hoB/ujWBRYb9GNYC5hHdu5Hwt7xu2A50h 38Xd/lF17er8cPsJVyOJELuE1o1zFMIJfDIiDveWodDeHJbi/qYHQqhKrA64nzinRwsYzb0s3 t/QdU95ztu0Y9MLv19zikta+VHeiOLL3Qd/Ama4jtL6pSTu3kORYi Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] xml2rfc.ietf.org unavailable X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2019 06:13:26 -0000 On 03.06.2019 21:49, Carsten Bormann wrote: > Maybe I have said that before, but I seem to have better experiences wit= h getting bibxml from xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org over xml2rfc.ietf.org. > ... Yes, as there's a 302 redirect. FWIW, it would be helpful if it was a 301 instead - some caches might be smart enough to take advantage of that. Best regards, Julian From nobody Wed Jun 12 08:45:59 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4C2C120123 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 08:45:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dEEaMFbh7fG0 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 08:45:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3:216:3eff:fe7c:d1f3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A5AFC1200C1 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 08:45:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (unknown [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2:56b2:3ff:fe0b:d84]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id B37B7380BE for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 11:44:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: by sandelman.ca (Postfix, from userid 179) id 4C9D0F4A; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 11:45:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47C2191B for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 11:45:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: tools-discuss@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <20190612150100.84AF538185@tuna.sandelman.ca> References: <20190612150100.84AF538185@tuna.sandelman.ca> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 24.5.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: [Tools-discuss] emailing authors of an RFC X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 15:45:57 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain The page at: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc7030/ has an email button that generates: draft-ietf-pkix-est@ietf.org is this correct? (That was the correct draft name). mail.ietf.org, says: : host mail.ietf.org[4.31.198.44] said: 550 5.1.1 could this be because this draft predates having contact addresses? Is this because the draft has been published, but we don't update the email contacts, or...? -- ] Never tell me the odds! | ipv6 mesh networks [ ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works | IoT architect [ ] mcr@sandelman.ca http://www.sandelman.ca/ | ruby on rails [ -- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAl0BHi4ACgkQgItw+93Q 3WXSigf+P1ktn/zk3n0sXrR2nQlKhpuDrk/pVvxJxJr0o5LyeEXVpn0A+VJW9c+b TSoiWYjpGUm2hXYeI5Uwa921/RCfgUVS+YtZXMcl3yZiAUYd8f4CcYltDhsyUphH VLhGCnoQPpjI7lM3E//7Rf8IABsMLnUbMGVW7f4l99YHK3RZrwJotF1CdJo42mIV dUcxhGdeYX4pcDg0dDZRWMHL8UFj5MLbOWvWJvylgh1l3rnewYRhdsgmSqIC1OIw qhm5uNQ9XUXif3beotrcXNAERwplULAmDFIdNcv5nW8Utcedm9bL7ZRSK1zSgv5J C8yVkODEvBhTyOIv/ZSnwIG9RHORvQ== =eYEQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Wed Jun 12 08:53:00 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DCDAA120178 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 08:52:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SdasxR83yH0z for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 08:52:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3:216:3eff:fe7c:d1f3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 40F6D120196 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 08:52:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (unknown [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2:56b2:3ff:fe0b:d84]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42CCF380BE for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 11:51:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: by sandelman.ca (Postfix, from userid 179) id D6A18F4A; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 11:52:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id D226691B for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 11:52:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson to: tools-discuss@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <31204.1560354351@localhost> References: <20190612150100.84AF538185@tuna.sandelman.ca> <31204.1560354351@localhost> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 24.5.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] emailing authors of an RFC X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 15:52:59 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Michael Richardson wrote: > The page at: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc7030/ has an email button > that generates: > draft-ietf-pkix-est@ietf.org BTW, I think that we want to encourage people to use the aliases @ietf.org for authors for three reasons: 1) I think that it will indirect through DT database, so if an author changes their email, it should follow them? 2) we can include WG chairs, WG lists, or BIS authors, or other people, particularly we can also keep people from spamming authors if necessary. (particularly authors who have moved on) 3) we can archive things if that makes sense, or even bring request trackers into the loop if it seems appropriate in the future. -- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAl0BH8IACgkQgItw+93Q 3WWr8gf+JTmhFGX5tnItxRnls27Bm/ytd88tiUHs36VlIep7x/HJvdRdNQG9U4nP zLbcUi80C7U50AzIC3v4m5qcKxMuMJjg9aw4uWN+I+5Sf8OdZiQKw0piL9MpTAPK HxtSJQ38TRpKeGBj5J7UgQ3U1yHVzHhtScA9g2YfD1IYAqNMnallU7wx+m/9JxbY SiR+tdfM7mLWZUfFOIzXz4uggLgTBeKuqpaihmdJnt+tTydHC86UvwOHxpBJlkjH nV1VKq/u0bIJmKZi3SXNZIjascp9Sostz4B/hwfn1RKNQqfHlzT2PGykDoquAZqZ sLllH9uIDmePY3cX/HC9Es/XYcFX1w== =PoLG -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Wed Jun 12 10:12:28 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B10E412004B for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 10:12:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UZk-6_Ksv7rq for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 10:12:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zinfandel.tools.ietf.org (zinfandel.tools.ietf.org [IPv6:2001:1890:126c::1:2a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A6DB212017C for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 10:12:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from h-202-242.a357.priv.bahnhof.se ([158.174.202.242]:55698 helo=tannat.localdomain) by zinfandel.tools.ietf.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1hb6nI-00006l-4t; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 10:12:17 -0700 To: Michael Richardson , tools-discuss@ietf.org References: <20190612150100.84AF538185@tuna.sandelman.ca> <31204.1560354351@localhost> From: Henrik Levkowetz Message-ID: Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 19:12:08 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <31204.1560354351@localhost> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="hFc2iiLTGwqsiUcs6RRsUc8xNWW8TnWAo" X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 158.174.202.242 X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: tools-discuss@ietf.org, mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1 (built Mon, 26 Dec 2011 16:24:06 +0000) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on zinfandel.tools.ietf.org) X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] emailing authors of an RFC X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 17:12:27 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --hFc2iiLTGwqsiUcs6RRsUc8xNWW8TnWAo Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="AM6lwDUDbrctVK9FLGiutLLSrbXqhg5wU"; protected-headers="v1" From: Henrik Levkowetz To: Michael Richardson , tools-discuss@ietf.org Message-ID: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] emailing authors of an RFC References: <20190612150100.84AF538185@tuna.sandelman.ca> <31204.1560354351@localhost> In-Reply-To: <31204.1560354351@localhost> --AM6lwDUDbrctVK9FLGiutLLSrbXqhg5wU Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Michael, On 2019-06-12 17:45, Michael Richardson wrote: >=20 > The page at: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc7030/ has an email but= ton > that generates: > draft-ietf-pkix-est@ietf.org >=20 > is this correct? (That was the correct draft name). That was a correct draft alias, but draft aliases expire 2 years after th= e draft's expiration. We should not show the button when the alias doesn't exist. That we=20 currently do so is a bug. Best regards, Henrik > mail.ietf.org, says: > : host mail.ietf.org[4.31.198.44] sai= d: 550 5.1.1 >=20 > could this be because this draft predates having contact addresses? > Is this because the draft has been published, but we don't update the e= mail > contacts, or...? >=20 > -- > ] Never tell me the odds! | ipv6 mesh net= works [ > ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works | IoT archit= ect [ > ] mcr@sandelman.ca http://www.sandelman.ca/ | ruby on rai= ls [ >=20 >=20 > -- > Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works > -=3D IPv6 IoT consulting =3D- >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > ___________________________________________________________ > Tools-discuss mailing list > Tools-discuss@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss >=20 > Please report datatracker.ietf.org and mailarchive.ietf.org > bugs at http://tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb > or send email to datatracker-project@ietf.org >=20 > Please report tools.ietf.org bugs at > http://tools.ietf.org/tools/issues > or send email to webmaster@tools.ietf.org >=20 --AM6lwDUDbrctVK9FLGiutLLSrbXqhg5wU-- --hFc2iiLTGwqsiUcs6RRsUc8xNWW8TnWAo Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEEifjc5+rnL1MJBcZSTptXS4+7FxoFAl0BMmgACgkQTptXS4+7 FxpA3Q//dp9m2Zq048ZWuc6UfoF8oTryIfQeInt/0zlz9cfytu/b4YlGDbu99Rse EtwDd6hVen2i76+chXzssYacf3iuR6WNkIP3MJ1QzPXq+X7H/79pCmfq+tcktKq8 lZuNwssnaqQxRRmFlt1ir9+WIUV7dsf0L0DGv68KldUOEE9ujPxOxOWN8yfarLAN YGhlvJOxNgCXUDTFeKjlj3g/Cal89cnOkbwnJyMvlSO0dUr/Q7L9yIPawSEdTrJW DQVxAXKGPbCuVR1GFipI65ZrHPKpPkq+wh9OYLOfW98p4EMxY6T/cRv0ALcgZFhP H0g6bEyMTtrGxoOrRXYF7TvVQTvL6Ukv+mMfICbGl+zCV7338N9rNty386J2RfDJ VNu9n5FZT+V0PRcTjM+mvHi+N64k69oySJmnCAYTNZ2TQaX9ONlEfXpe/IwFa+RA 4iYlTAM5yhRHj+UCe2wvEmpxw/Re49JMRgUQkmKxCGp3acC0NTCBDS5qZy7gp8j8 GhF5zzK4K2DfO+UsAOdLSEb51RNjrbNBPtcCR7JR6Hw7ZG/R74JgHLqtFh52SVur t+wZM6hDUjKVVa7n/L3Vvyv9jgem0w9AAAnqWe5JrmwF5+xYZldOsHg6n0C1mts2 NVkWHrvN6/1UMPUDU9tiz0uy67BE+P4f9fjcTYIdFEyD+SXycnU= =q6gQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --hFc2iiLTGwqsiUcs6RRsUc8xNWW8TnWAo-- From nobody Wed Jun 12 10:20:05 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39AAB12024D for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 10:20:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2MfVsuNqw9lb for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 10:20:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zinfandel.tools.ietf.org (zinfandel.tools.ietf.org [IPv6:2001:1890:126c::1:2a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7CDF3120230 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 10:20:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from h-202-242.a357.priv.bahnhof.se ([158.174.202.242]:55781 helo=tannat.localdomain) by zinfandel.tools.ietf.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1hb6uY-0008Q1-3J; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 10:19:48 -0700 To: Michael Richardson , tools-discuss@ietf.org References: <20190612150100.84AF538185@tuna.sandelman.ca> <31204.1560354351@localhost> <616.1560354754@localhost> From: Henrik Levkowetz Message-ID: <88766251-39ac-f1a3-4483-834f1ac57184@levkowetz.com> Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 19:19:38 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <616.1560354754@localhost> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="7mhugMfV8DKRrsH69hrkXpjmM1NXjopX5" X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 158.174.202.242 X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: tools-discuss@ietf.org, mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1 (built Mon, 26 Dec 2011 16:24:06 +0000) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on zinfandel.tools.ietf.org) X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] emailing authors of an RFC X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 17:20:04 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --7mhugMfV8DKRrsH69hrkXpjmM1NXjopX5 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="5bBaqX6KmuT3Hmr2PkNvcWO3tdKhGbqxM"; protected-headers="v1" From: Henrik Levkowetz To: Michael Richardson , tools-discuss@ietf.org Message-ID: <88766251-39ac-f1a3-4483-834f1ac57184@levkowetz.com> Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] emailing authors of an RFC References: <20190612150100.84AF538185@tuna.sandelman.ca> <31204.1560354351@localhost> <616.1560354754@localhost> In-Reply-To: <616.1560354754@localhost> --5bBaqX6KmuT3Hmr2PkNvcWO3tdKhGbqxM Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2019-06-12 17:52, Michael Richardson wrote: >=20 > Michael Richardson wrote: > > The page at: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc7030/ has an ema= il button > > that generates: > > draft-ietf-pkix-est@ietf.org >=20 > BTW, I think that we want to encourage people to use the aliases @ietf.= org > for authors for three reasons: You mean, as opposed to explicit author email addresses, yes? >=20 > 1) I think that it will indirect through DT database, so if an author c= hanges > their email, it should follow them? Yes. > 2) we can include WG chairs, WG lists, or BIS authors, or other people,= particularly > we can also keep people from spamming authors if necessary. > (particularly authors who have moved on) Yes, if an author disable all their email addresses in the datatracker, that will be the effect. > 3) we can archive things if that makes sense, or even bring request tra= ckers > into the loop if it seems appropriate in the future. Ack. Henrik --5bBaqX6KmuT3Hmr2PkNvcWO3tdKhGbqxM-- --7mhugMfV8DKRrsH69hrkXpjmM1NXjopX5 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEEifjc5+rnL1MJBcZSTptXS4+7FxoFAl0BNCoACgkQTptXS4+7 FxrwfQ/+L7rNcXZxPLo5vEKKO7CkasxXWNvAVt/KS1F0FhFDNWVZaPw11LzRSw/e w//UG3h7zzJcvp+d3u/KIUGqGSzTcKBsqYPFxs4gVrnydW4ZMl/miqlLp9PNHW8s /WzzqUhvUQmHWp704CkaSzW9CMSAfpA45pilnfHUUCqKRVtPtCZyyJQyfE1v/rv5 ZiiaM9CdvgADOIAsVfs2xhozw0AAhKDbfetex4juHAmqv2FszUpMyA1Pk4WFKbM2 D/L/frJZW0m/CfzY/cTO57kG8C6AZtDnFqva+fjBmsoybPRMwwpN/n17YVjFmkrj oQqESvG3n2aNyn2K3mGU18Iu+1N2LgqxaxmXAHcNWPnbd5Z+VAS9o9xt+8sxdcYq kqD2/CK/42L8EG+5kW5Zu8dDvpJa7hkH9s0su3s16cZViP3Io4TvR9WNICWbCqkG U5ou7O9fYPt/eek1tjPX5ddSNLlPlhZCTwhjsv+zZX+UE1VgbiNMiyoysQ0RXyvk wInVdpeyRD67cPdv7xiwLv1oSYCon4hsK3JSUTRE01hjX6h0IdZCT7QnLzO28gHj YwqwJ0tRd1RnH4Ng+uoI9glNcczQMlTRkDUmz8CnXmJGnI6MckuojS/p6bfMXgmg uIFN71dk4YZlpBozfSXdClBlXAPtAmtL8ohg9abmc+4Xn4umCHs= =/A1i -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --7mhugMfV8DKRrsH69hrkXpjmM1NXjopX5-- From nobody Wed Jun 12 11:44:08 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F345120131 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 11:44:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Q9KDhhltIBNi for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 11:44:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3:216:3eff:fe7c:d1f3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8F92712004F for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 11:44:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (unknown [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2:56b2:3ff:fe0b:d84]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C69C38183; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 14:42:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: by sandelman.ca (Postfix, from userid 179) id 5E4A3107F; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 14:44:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5CE2291F; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 14:44:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: Henrik Levkowetz cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <88766251-39ac-f1a3-4483-834f1ac57184@levkowetz.com> References: <20190612150100.84AF538185@tuna.sandelman.ca> <31204.1560354351@localhost> <616.1560354754@localhost> <88766251-39ac-f1a3-4483-834f1ac57184@levkowetz.com> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 24.5.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] emailing authors of an RFC X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 18:44:07 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Henrik Levkowetz wrote: > On 2019-06-12 17:52, Michael Richardson wrote: >> >> Michael Richardson wrote: >> > The page at: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc7030/ has an email button >> > that generates: >> > draft-ietf-pkix-est@ietf.org >> >> BTW, I think that we want to encourage people to use the aliases >> @ietf.org >> for authors for three reasons: > You mean, as opposed to explicit author email addresses, yes? Yes, exactly. I don't know if we would want to remove author email addresses from RFCs, but it sure would be nice to draw attention to the DT alias, and I don't think we do much in the production process. That's kinda a second order issue though. Getting the DT aliases to work consistently is the first issue. >> 1) I think that it will indirect through DT database, so if an author >> changes >> their email, it should follow them? > Yes. Coolness. So what's up with draft-ietf-pkix-est@ or I'd have thought it would be rfc7030@ and I keep wondering if we shouldn't put it at @doc.ietf.org or something like that rather than @ietf.org, as the list will keep growing, and maybe we want to have different spam filtering policies. -- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAl0BR/MACgkQgItw+93Q 3WVtBggAwLMrkx8q+naK0L4HFCferEj39gSft1qqRq01S9BKleYSjcqaarFLYXu7 8LwfpP/bY+3dzChqDsVV+RRVZttE56YsMPchhSrdWAaUMEkKmYiih4HgCZr+ltxu TC0UOuuSs9heGbaPL4xwF+H8q/tMu5Cva4yt5B+sQs8M0DZEubf/2KTXHwbdzuzk L/kfQNBERL6M6gPvoCKKst2e+IN/qwKyElY+2e2rxlyM6hWFNxSMLiVZT6TUINPc hy0o4DxwR+2ashpJB9fFHia7S2//Q32e73mMPp+lsO57atbWf0owRFfyIUSS9BIT YWFoNQCiXktHAWC20ihdonu9sM6xnQ== =jbNS -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Wed Jun 12 11:45:27 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 596D0120131 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 11:45:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id V1gQh4Lvg88q for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 11:45:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3:216:3eff:fe7c:d1f3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 766F112004F for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 11:45:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.21]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D093380BE; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 14:43:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: by sandelman.ca (Postfix, from userid 179) id 1F637107F; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 14:45:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E1DA91F; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 14:45:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: Henrik Levkowetz cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org In-Reply-To: References: <20190612150100.84AF538185@tuna.sandelman.ca> <31204.1560354351@localhost> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 24.5.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] emailing authors of an RFC X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 18:45:26 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Henrik Levkowetz wrote: >> that generates: >> draft-ietf-pkix-est@ietf.org >> >> is this correct? (That was the correct draft name). > That was a correct draft alias, but draft aliases expire 2 years after > the draft's expiration. > We should not show the button when the alias doesn't exist. That we > currently do so is a bug. but the draft became an RFC. And it's displayed on the RFC document DT page. Do we have author aliases for RFCs? Maybe we don't. -- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAl0BSEIACgkQgItw+93Q 3WVsoQf9FMG4ZV2cL1pdkwZdwYUSRBMv0Q4MiwOkC6chd1WgjEZ1QJSt78fpHHC1 gSg5d04i56/YxQiw1UzlGuAffOrDAFzwv09ykFsbrTCAXhuKk58w9r2lZUHSfEEd JNI5kwSQNC5KP4WB32oFHxOHhVF+5QHjoj4L2maLACywOX9ClqQVtKiT8lWSLOp+ c92qlOuZcmDGqeBr9QSTICX5BzHBdbKC5sLmxzdkcMZrtWBtlcIpSR8g/ddl4sD9 pd7ui8filp9HlesnLhfwiKn+fN4XlRyVhxr7nYVzkDp8R+Xssi67oDxqkSDBn7nl ba/quF0xecqyVAplX5g1od0AwW2kbQ== =R5hY -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Wed Jun 12 13:14:38 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35CBA120144 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 13:14:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id S3f9-6Ebqbid for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 13:14:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zinfandel.tools.ietf.org (zinfandel.tools.ietf.org [IPv6:2001:1890:126c::1:2a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 90248120091 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 13:14:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from h-202-242.a357.priv.bahnhof.se ([158.174.202.242]:56749 helo=tannat.localdomain) by zinfandel.tools.ietf.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1hb9dh-0006S6-A6; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 13:14:33 -0700 To: Michael Richardson References: <20190612150100.84AF538185@tuna.sandelman.ca> <31204.1560354351@localhost> <13329.1560365123@localhost> Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org From: Henrik Levkowetz Message-ID: Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 22:14:25 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <13329.1560365123@localhost> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="1vVq7FRKNGu4KQAMTEsAiudJfNp1j11FR" X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 158.174.202.242 X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: tools-discuss@ietf.org, mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1 (built Mon, 26 Dec 2011 16:24:06 +0000) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on zinfandel.tools.ietf.org) X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] emailing authors of an RFC X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 20:14:36 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --1vVq7FRKNGu4KQAMTEsAiudJfNp1j11FR Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="rRVVHiTaM3VNM9G8tgOaIaAXOWibBgm9d"; protected-headers="v1" From: Henrik Levkowetz To: Michael Richardson Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org Message-ID: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] emailing authors of an RFC References: <20190612150100.84AF538185@tuna.sandelman.ca> <31204.1560354351@localhost> <13329.1560365123@localhost> In-Reply-To: <13329.1560365123@localhost> --rRVVHiTaM3VNM9G8tgOaIaAXOWibBgm9d Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2019-06-12 20:45, Michael Richardson wrote: >=20 > Henrik Levkowetz wrote: > >> that generates: > >> draft-ietf-pkix-est@ietf.org > >> > >> is this correct? (That was the correct draft name). >=20 > > That was a correct draft alias, but draft aliases expire 2 years = after > > the draft's expiration. >=20 > > We should not show the button when the alias doesn't exist. That= we > > currently do so is a bug. >=20 > but the draft became an RFC. > And it's displayed on the RFC document DT page. > Do we have author aliases for RFCs? Maybe we don't. No. Not sure if we should. Henrik --rRVVHiTaM3VNM9G8tgOaIaAXOWibBgm9d-- --1vVq7FRKNGu4KQAMTEsAiudJfNp1j11FR Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEEifjc5+rnL1MJBcZSTptXS4+7FxoFAl0BXSEACgkQTptXS4+7 FxpMJw//aDBjE/QFN51G66aGpKNdVGeYTDIvll6Gls/tltAAyK9qA6DsTs0dPCcf Gr/+pIw+PwC7hAabYKHkzWxU7lTby1Q/wDmsZF67io15m2lL6yT9ltsaUVjOFzx6 syOPRmSCt+yuMwTTPrtMNm6MX6Djs4yh+qcHPvmP5SUTHJOzBhPrlPa+e1uWyyED kGABTTmCZVCSgI61iyrKhN6PI5wK7f88sAobF0kIh7RJYUIAW/dD30T/EE2oSl9b iLgkox+wfUFzzEaxs0S83EGeFAx8eGv3T+f/KqG7/Hc+hx6V/easwXkVkCjpPSjl yG3dDXMlAhD6LQ7qY8JDSP9+nwf8YyZum5OKetQpBxzvwV2+BLIR9TmvvOL2TGyB JIN/JXxVtQKEl+x/unfE/Rbr5rQ0si6iIc2cvAEgqG2tYzUkQc6LgmjzOu77JCMR yIWRnmL+g4/hVs9HkJW0lVA4QL88wVJKRyM65yTaWpXOwSVkCcQJfh1n+VNlwSci dCxa6iV+ALdYKSMhnk6rSz6uD//wt1lNPa3ltuoK2ftMO5QUoQ7BLMqtyU+gz0YQ dEhwVoX6XFYARIl4NqoAWyXGTn7j6WpWGwdADI3wRVxMznROvjEldLw+lzCZOgF5 o1aMvNMp3OmenO0sVXc+EFfGuNN5rkaI+uwppv+uTnqdOcVe/fc= =Sjxa -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --1vVq7FRKNGu4KQAMTEsAiudJfNp1j11FR-- From nobody Wed Jun 12 23:39:17 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B87A1201D2 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 23:39:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.197 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.197 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iCed7wxMhw_D for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 23:39:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4F93C120033 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 23:39:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from client-0045.vpn.uni-bremen.de (client-0045.vpn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.107.45]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 45PYxC0wKqzyb4; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 08:39:11 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2019 08:39:10 +0200 Cc: Michael Richardson , tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 582100748.45155-5d8f080ca24010ae6bcdc51ac5bd0883 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <20190612150100.84AF538185@tuna.sandelman.ca> <31204.1560354351@localhost> <13329.1560365123@localhost> To: Henrik Levkowetz X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] emailing authors of an RFC X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2019 06:39:15 -0000 On Jun 12, 2019, at 22:14, Henrik Levkowetz = wrote: >=20 >> Do we have author aliases for RFCs? Maybe we don't. >=20 > No. Not sure if we should. Yes, we should. (See the discussion over at=20 Archived-At: = =E2=81=A8=E2=81=A9 for an example why this would be a good idea.) The draft-ietf-*@ietf.org aliases have been serving as a stand-in for = the missing RFC author set aliases. I for one was not aware that these = are now being deleted automatically, which makes plugging the RFC author = alias hole more important. (Yes, authors of RFCs for wildly successful [RFC5218] protocols may want = to have a way to opt out. Instead of deleting an alias and causing a = non-delivery message, a helpful piece of information how the IETF works = and how to reach out to the WG or any successor would be useful for = those.) Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Thu Jun 13 06:18:36 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12448120226 for ; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 06:18:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id f8q7KJAqo03m for ; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 06:18:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zinfandel.tools.ietf.org (zinfandel.tools.ietf.org [IPv6:2001:1890:126c::1:2a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A340812013A for ; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 06:18:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from h-202-242.a357.priv.bahnhof.se ([158.174.202.242]:61974 helo=tannat.localdomain) by zinfandel.tools.ietf.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1hbPcb-0000vy-GG; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 06:18:30 -0700 To: Carsten Bormann References: <20190612150100.84AF538185@tuna.sandelman.ca> <31204.1560354351@localhost> <13329.1560365123@localhost> Cc: Michael Richardson , tools-discuss@ietf.org From: Henrik Levkowetz Message-ID: <9de6bcc1-2965-eeb0-a200-5581867db81b@levkowetz.com> Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2019 15:18:19 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="o5cWWbRWnrqF8KPsk46RBEdnWCo9mGv0d" X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 158.174.202.242 X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: tools-discuss@ietf.org, mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca, cabo@tzi.org X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1 (built Mon, 26 Dec 2011 16:24:06 +0000) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on zinfandel.tools.ietf.org) X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] emailing authors of an RFC X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2019 13:18:34 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --o5cWWbRWnrqF8KPsk46RBEdnWCo9mGv0d Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="lUO5BbKmmjbtGD0pSvFomeihSwelaUfIf"; protected-headers="v1" From: Henrik Levkowetz To: Carsten Bormann Cc: Michael Richardson , tools-discuss@ietf.org Message-ID: <9de6bcc1-2965-eeb0-a200-5581867db81b@levkowetz.com> Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] emailing authors of an RFC References: <20190612150100.84AF538185@tuna.sandelman.ca> <31204.1560354351@localhost> <13329.1560365123@localhost> In-Reply-To: --lUO5BbKmmjbtGD0pSvFomeihSwelaUfIf Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2019-06-13 08:39, Carsten Bormann wrote: > On Jun 12, 2019, at 22:14, Henrik Levkowetz wrot= e: >>=20 >>> Do we have author aliases for RFCs? Maybe we don't. >>=20 >> No. Not sure if we should. >=20 > Yes, we should. (See the discussion over at=20 > Archived-At: =E2=81=A8=E2=81=A9 > for an example why this would be a good idea.) Let me clarify. I wasn't trying to say that RFC author aliases wouldn't = be a good thing, I was questioning whether the IETF should provide these, ra= ther than the RFC Editor. > The draft-ietf-*@ietf.org aliases have been serving as a stand-in for > the missing RFC author set aliases. I for one was not aware that > these are now being deleted automatically, which makes plugging the > RFC author alias hole more important. The draft-* aliases have always been time-limited; I think I kept them for 12 months after expiration when they were hosted on @tools.ietf.org, and extended that to 24 months when we moved them to @ietf.org. Regards, Henrik > (Yes, authors of RFCs for wildly successful [RFC5218] protocols may > want to have a way to opt out. Instead of deleting an alias and > causing a non-delivery message, a helpful piece of information how > the IETF works and how to reach out to the WG or any successor would > be useful for those.) >=20 > Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten >=20 > ___________________________________________________________ > Tools-discuss mailing list > Tools-discuss@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss >=20 > Please report datatracker.ietf.org and mailarchive.ietf.org > bugs at http://tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb > or send email to datatracker-project@ietf.org >=20 > Please report tools.ietf.org bugs at > http://tools.ietf.org/tools/issues > or send email to webmaster@tools.ietf.org >=20 --lUO5BbKmmjbtGD0pSvFomeihSwelaUfIf-- --o5cWWbRWnrqF8KPsk46RBEdnWCo9mGv0d Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEEifjc5+rnL1MJBcZSTptXS4+7FxoFAl0CTRsACgkQTptXS4+7 FxpzAw/+IIhcAWKkgPYTQtGO2A79+RsbKn1+5CGj6Rt+Fu7FzbReLYxDbaNDP2J0 FWVAg3FDz0DxKl5TzHD7bD+OJ6kkOYpuOfEr8Vr8vfFPhTDYFgUSM1jnkRDtimcp 15w9JhqSeu3szx36/+ZKoeb9rZIP8VAMaGJ0IWicMUYmcrEJfQA9IyM9q2ite+td f2UoAmDFHqWDPufsiAPg03uiCDX7NtXebUsXiII+KWsc/vLtUNtqGnLc5l1RgiMg v7cuBsfZgBYPtYdSyF8IEhoaGISiI58n628laNVh1bEj2QKrxe1pccvaR85fr9fO T9t5M8xwn2lpiWzasJ3FNNP2r7CSVE5CIs2UHgZQb7eBis+r84wOiWib+AYtz8MM 4yHLHnpBYJD/E6d9myBaxgtq2w3CSlzWT2hDUMSbMwsOfrw9EGGszLHM5RqPtN/m +6BK+q0xIGhzODIB33K2r77rTA0Oev5cy1P+7Snsut5vH13A8l6S00vh7ceAAHCZ mv9MQN/WKzzYzgfGj/iPOuexs5dr+Yu/y9pcVxgomaIwadTWalepphtCpCIs/cwp OP6uy3tVfxN+GawxLmFBdNWvLBGgAohZ6/qXdFcp91hfd7j1RlWQNHthTQQ5lrGJ QHekAKUp1QD+2qdIzyRQNOuU2tmib0/CmvyqbOVC0CALkbfEcZ8= =4waq -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --o5cWWbRWnrqF8KPsk46RBEdnWCo9mGv0d-- From nobody Thu Jun 13 06:49:15 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24694120298 for ; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 06:49:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.197 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.197 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uxSxQlAkiBSb for ; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 06:49:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3AC1F1200FA for ; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 06:49:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [134.102.116.196] (unknown [134.102.116.196]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 45PlTK2fRyz1073; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 15:49:09 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <9de6bcc1-2965-eeb0-a200-5581867db81b@levkowetz.com> Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2019 15:49:09 +0200 Cc: Michael Richardson , tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 582126547.395887-aa62625e5854ca43dd1b24197d73de1b Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <2223BFC5-D26B-41DD-9B40-679477650F2D@tzi.org> References: <20190612150100.84AF538185@tuna.sandelman.ca> <31204.1560354351@localhost> <13329.1560365123@localhost> <9de6bcc1-2965-eeb0-a200-5581867db81b@levkowetz.com> To: Henrik Levkowetz X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] emailing authors of an RFC X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2019 13:49:13 -0000 On Jun 13, 2019, at 15:18, Henrik Levkowetz = wrote: >=20 > Let me clarify. I wasn't trying to say that RFC author aliases = wouldn't be > a good thing, I was questioning whether the IETF should provide these, = rather > than the RFC Editor. That is a valid question. However, the IETF does have the datatracker identities, which can make = these aliases a bit more sustainable. Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Thu Jun 13 06:52:26 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED0CB120298 for ; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 06:52:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pIp2jQb70seW for ; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 06:52:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zinfandel.tools.ietf.org (zinfandel.tools.ietf.org [IPv6:2001:1890:126c::1:2a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 690BE1201DB for ; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 06:52:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from h-202-242.a357.priv.bahnhof.se ([158.174.202.242]:62288 helo=tannat.localdomain) by zinfandel.tools.ietf.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1hbQ9M-0005Of-EG; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 06:52:21 -0700 To: Carsten Bormann References: <20190612150100.84AF538185@tuna.sandelman.ca> <31204.1560354351@localhost> <13329.1560365123@localhost> <9de6bcc1-2965-eeb0-a200-5581867db81b@levkowetz.com> <2223BFC5-D26B-41DD-9B40-679477650F2D@tzi.org> Cc: Michael Richardson , tools-discuss@ietf.org From: Henrik Levkowetz Message-ID: Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2019 15:52:12 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <2223BFC5-D26B-41DD-9B40-679477650F2D@tzi.org> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="C0qw5c4TeG0PahL8k9I7IlHS9Fk1saOOX" X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 158.174.202.242 X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: tools-discuss@ietf.org, mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca, cabo@tzi.org X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1 (built Mon, 26 Dec 2011 16:24:06 +0000) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on zinfandel.tools.ietf.org) X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] emailing authors of an RFC X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2019 13:52:24 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --C0qw5c4TeG0PahL8k9I7IlHS9Fk1saOOX Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="F7mRH6CE20hGmA8lB1CgGNxF6SGgajnEe"; protected-headers="v1" From: Henrik Levkowetz To: Carsten Bormann Cc: Michael Richardson , tools-discuss@ietf.org Message-ID: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] emailing authors of an RFC References: <20190612150100.84AF538185@tuna.sandelman.ca> <31204.1560354351@localhost> <13329.1560365123@localhost> <9de6bcc1-2965-eeb0-a200-5581867db81b@levkowetz.com> <2223BFC5-D26B-41DD-9B40-679477650F2D@tzi.org> In-Reply-To: <2223BFC5-D26B-41DD-9B40-679477650F2D@tzi.org> --F7mRH6CE20hGmA8lB1CgGNxF6SGgajnEe Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2019-06-13 15:49, Carsten Bormann wrote: > On Jun 13, 2019, at 15:18, Henrik Levkowetz wrot= e: >>=20 >> Let me clarify. I wasn't trying to say that RFC author aliases wouldn= 't be >> a good thing, I was questioning whether the IETF should provide these,= rather >> than the RFC Editor. >=20 > That is a valid question. >=20 > However, the IETF does have the datatracker identities, which can > make these aliases a bit more sustainable. Yes. The datatracker already exports some information to the RFC Editor;= if it is deemed that the RFC Editor should own the RFC author alias email= addresses, we'd make sure they could pull the relevant information from the datatracker. Regards, Henrik --F7mRH6CE20hGmA8lB1CgGNxF6SGgajnEe-- --C0qw5c4TeG0PahL8k9I7IlHS9Fk1saOOX Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEEifjc5+rnL1MJBcZSTptXS4+7FxoFAl0CVQwACgkQTptXS4+7 FxrLMBAArYhHXTFQla6bnZJn+67344MOwqfpkS9pbSWH914OVjdoJgOVs9V9CIsK WMgmLmbbmljPy83MdxYiYfKyKC4dhnMhrsMZBOrIXQa65ZA9XA8vW6iPw0g7JTN0 YBhdObZ3D51n7hXiwEt7JBQ2oqznItHVV57+ZAIrNW1toyRgFvLhD53x4636N+s4 BdGZzO1dtXhUDr3ht7s8kyxqkjF8TRCxFHCvj6Hgackp30d/wAYZQ3zdGwCdryoY wTv2WYVKeBHPLIn7aWAcdpZ6xOKA912QQUYgymXzBX5bU1Zqkd3ZYiiVU47NzO4F B8ueITBPyPdLPHHuqdStUmfM+AWJG57O8keIGaMrf8lFhSKLoHzIGOCoVFqJIWqm B+Q0B5MjaaWpPlYCVLqBRwgF9cce+xEAm+sDZHO+NZnlGn7LXHeSkUeklCaHk7ND 2W2PFLXOY8UIhStsKK6e+8NzW9SDUqkUyujN1wXz5Wyo7VFsg3/sQWmIA282P9b5 DF9Mv8UxJNBzIqJcH1w47fg+nJII+si3S0PSET9viDYfqcy2bRIvsgPYvI7dPWz7 NTHgDOSqdbCVVDG8WcPu13Kkum683lcTD11DBjf3iPRFne/x/awGjMPcPusRJ9cs CI4TcA8+8na7u7fz2mEowcuNiCKlzk2PubvuRpPlIE7s2d3StmM= =5HJd -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --C0qw5c4TeG0PahL8k9I7IlHS9Fk1saOOX-- From nobody Thu Jun 13 08:22:47 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2357120276 for ; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 08:22:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HaAHy7iJsj7v for ; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 08:22:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr1-x42c.google.com (mail-wr1-x42c.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::42c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2D838120026 for ; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 08:22:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wr1-x42c.google.com with SMTP id r16so2094152wrl.11 for ; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 08:22:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=NdhYPeGNuzqb1fzn0jN+eQBtNCUW1z/PHokkk0pTb4M=; b=kh9flKBco68OLknCPwo4uovSu8oNyUTP75L17Ni7tNieIGzITcIrOGfQQn7bMvBTgY ShUU6YW8bDNuDvMcrG0Iqmx0zMGwCXUBwUa3fRJVCjSzg1YF/yBNxRfGz2pvNJ1clGPM mVkhjTXaaD7UFjjvID8DWxnPlRgV6L/gVmbnltQEDBeftibsFNGWC9uuNf5G/4WcPgeC CwsBE9ATcMHvaUmeFTsix2MEF6+0qM/NQRhadiExqMxyREvQBt6BZLwKGqTXJQvbXbZ5 Z1YhbbJcy3okCw6Ane0T9DizSDzHCoEXOoJIvYZU5kXcYDxnTsRtsyw+ytUAkF5ny+tV q7sA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=NdhYPeGNuzqb1fzn0jN+eQBtNCUW1z/PHokkk0pTb4M=; b=dRF0yxsbO6g5E4XvJq9Mmo2R028l3UMHbQ88VNd1iSbBrJ4btk+9xgnYrdl69P74Ru IzMReurUuIB3m9R50XyLCRURwh+5Bs+640gRK9+bA/RbzcLhp1m+36LvKVQkw3HWtlX3 YbTYmfMHb21uHtwMab9qMXTzSSIvAQpJTP7Oiqr5+LJb4X79dbbMVpUIA1ejgz4sbT/5 wXoV9P0dAzi98+so59JtPm16IgfMRY1CWjcdDZeshNX/MSI8aqzdkMb+veYKIfU7Ip26 6xp+bJimsL4q25KylRuZLfey1+ECJaDcxbDaE+SFvDyNJDwHz3EjUDYAan2UFJrmTCtx Qg8w== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAU7bK7usfxdf2a9RQlEnvl0Gc/kDA5KLfcvAkQMvK08KibUvj5j pjJuCW4VQB2zFbYJwn8uxqc= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyrTswAcUhIFM6bwxwUevz+s6GSgJwXujhWtFieVvAJmlNIVB8m5uooIQerASwkWXQkSRGSzw== X-Received: by 2002:a5d:46ce:: with SMTP id g14mr3008936wrs.203.1560439360544; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 08:22:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2601:647:5a00:ef0b:9805:4c00:7c9f:97a5? ([2601:647:5a00:ef0b:9805:4c00:7c9f:97a5]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id w67sm251824wma.24.2019.06.13.08.22.38 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 13 Jun 2019 08:22:39 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) From: Bob Hinden In-Reply-To: <9de6bcc1-2965-eeb0-a200-5581867db81b@levkowetz.com> Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2019 08:22:34 -0700 Cc: Bob Hinden , Carsten Bormann , Michael Richardson , tools-discuss@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <8203EB90-A7D1-41E4-98E6-310B339A2941@gmail.com> References: <20190612150100.84AF538185@tuna.sandelman.ca> <31204.1560354351@localhost> <13329.1560365123@localhost> <9de6bcc1-2965-eeb0-a200-5581867db81b@levkowetz.com> To: Henrik Levkowetz X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] emailing authors of an RFC X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2019 15:22:45 -0000 Henrik, > On Jun 13, 2019, at 6:18 AM, Henrik Levkowetz = wrote: >=20 >=20 > On 2019-06-13 08:39, Carsten Bormann wrote: >> On Jun 12, 2019, at 22:14, Henrik Levkowetz = wrote: >>>=20 >>>> Do we have author aliases for RFCs? Maybe we don't. >>>=20 >>> No. Not sure if we should. >>=20 >> Yes, we should. (See the discussion over at=20 >> Archived-At: = =E2=81=A8=E2=81=A9 >> for an example why this would be a good idea.) >=20 > Let me clarify. I wasn't trying to say that RFC author aliases = wouldn't be > a good thing, I was questioning whether the IETF should provide these, = rather > than the RFC Editor. I agree, this is a question for the RFC Editor. Personally, I am not sure I see too much value, as maintaining an alias = over many years will be difficult. Especially for people who don=E2=80=99= t contribute frequently. But that is again a question for the RFC = Editor. Thanks, Bob From nobody Thu Jun 13 10:21:11 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71402120123 for ; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 10:21:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.198 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.198 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PSjfCsm5E9VA for ; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 10:21:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.amsl.com (c8a.amsl.com [4.31.198.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F1AFE12011C for ; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 10:21:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by c8a.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29B5A1C3DB8; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 10:20:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from c8a.amsl.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (c8a.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UNM5rnzLQ9sw; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 10:20:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [IPv6:2605:e000:1524:de:e462:b66b:56e9:f8de] (unknown [IPv6:2605:e000:1524:de:e462:b66b:56e9:f8de]) by c8a.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C89E91C3DB6; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 10:20:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Sandy Ginoza Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_83367C9E-8A73-40C4-BA06-4F22FBD872D4" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2019 10:20:11 -0700 In-Reply-To: <8203EB90-A7D1-41E4-98E6-310B339A2941@gmail.com> Cc: Henrik Levkowetz , Michael Richardson , Carsten Bormann , Tools Team Discussion , Heather Flanagan To: Bob Hinden References: <20190612150100.84AF538185@tuna.sandelman.ca> <31204.1560354351@localhost> <13329.1560365123@localhost> <9de6bcc1-2965-eeb0-a200-5581867db81b@levkowetz.com> <8203EB90-A7D1-41E4-98E6-310B339A2941@gmail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] emailing authors of an RFC X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2019 17:21:10 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_83367C9E-8A73-40C4-BA06-4F22FBD872D4 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi all, Adding Heather to the thread. =20 I think this is a reasonable thing that could be added to the RFC info = pages. My main concern is the ongoing maintenance effort if the = underlying addresses are supposed be kept current. Henrik, if any of = the underlying addresses become stale with the existing aliases, what = happens? Do you have a method for keeping them up to date?=20 Michael, just curious - what=E2=80=99s your use case for this? = Currently on the info pages, we have text suggesting the user email the = WG if they want to discuss the RFC; for example, this is what appears = for RFC 7030: Discuss this RFC: Send questions or comments to pkix@ietf.org = Thanks, Sandy > On Jun 13, 2019, at 8:22 AM, Bob Hinden wrote: >=20 > Henrik, >=20 >> On Jun 13, 2019, at 6:18 AM, Henrik Levkowetz = wrote: >>=20 >>=20 >> On 2019-06-13 08:39, Carsten Bormann wrote: >>> On Jun 12, 2019, at 22:14, Henrik Levkowetz = wrote: >>>>=20 >>>>> Do we have author aliases for RFCs? Maybe we don't. >>>>=20 >>>> No. Not sure if we should. >>>=20 >>> Yes, we should. (See the discussion over at=20 >>> Archived-At: = =E2=81=A8=E2=81=A9 >>> for an example why this would be a good idea.) >>=20 >> Let me clarify. I wasn't trying to say that RFC author aliases = wouldn't be >> a good thing, I was questioning whether the IETF should provide = these, rather >> than the RFC Editor. >=20 > I agree, this is a question for the RFC Editor. >=20 > Personally, I am not sure I see too much value, as maintaining an = alias over many years will be difficult. Especially for people who = don=E2=80=99t contribute frequently. But that is again a question for = the RFC Editor. >=20 > Thanks, > Bob >=20 >=20 > ___________________________________________________________ > Tools-discuss mailing list > Tools-discuss@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss >=20 > Please report datatracker.ietf.org and mailarchive.ietf.org > bugs at http://tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb > or send email to datatracker-project@ietf.org >=20 > Please report tools.ietf.org bugs at > http://tools.ietf.org/tools/issues > or send email to webmaster@tools.ietf.org --Apple-Mail=_83367C9E-8A73-40C4-BA06-4F22FBD872D4 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Hi all,

Adding Heather to the thread.  

I think this is a reasonable thing that = could be added to the RFC info pages.  My main concern is the = ongoing maintenance effort if the underlying addresses are supposed be = kept current.  Henrik, if any of the underlying addresses become = stale with the existing aliases, what happens?  Do you have a = method for keeping them up to date? 

Michael, just curious - what=E2=80=99s = your use case for this?  Currently on the info pages, we have text = suggesting the user email the WG if they want to discuss the RFC; for = example, this is what appears for RFC 7030:

Discuss this RFC: Send questions or = comments to pkix@ietf.org


Thanks,
Sandy

On Jun 13, 2019, at 8:22 AM, = Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com> wrote:

Henrik,

On Jun 13, 2019, at 6:18 AM, Henrik Levkowetz <henrik@levkowetz.com> wrote:


On 2019-06-13 08:39, Carsten Bormann wrote:
On Jun 12, 2019, at = 22:14, Henrik Levkowetz <henrik@levkowetz.com> wrote:

Do we have author aliases for RFCs?  Maybe we don't.

No.  Not sure if we = should.

Yes, we should. =  (See the discussion over at
Archived-At: =E2=81=A8<= ;https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/anima/sfev_MdLg-cgZTVFxE8= jl3SQCIo>=E2=81=A9
for an example why this would be = a good idea.)

Let me clarify. =  I wasn't trying to say that RFC author aliases wouldn't be
a good thing, I was questioning whether the IETF should = provide these, rather
than the RFC Editor.

I agree, this is a question for = the RFC Editor.

Personally, I am not sure I = see too much value, as maintaining an alias over many years will be = difficult.  Especially for people who don=E2=80=99t contribute = frequently.  But that is again a question for the RFC Editor.

Thanks,
Bob


___________________________________________________________
Tools-discuss mailing list
Tools-discuss@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss

Please report datatracker.ietf.org and = mailarchive.ietf.org
bugs at = http://tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb
or send email to = datatracker-project@ietf.org

Please report = tools.ietf.org bugs at
http://tools.ietf.org/tools/issuesor send email to webmaster@tools.ietf.org

= --Apple-Mail=_83367C9E-8A73-40C4-BA06-4F22FBD872D4-- From nobody Thu Jun 13 12:38:16 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72D2C12068F; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 12:38:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.997 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.997 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vWisK05nOjF8; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 12:38:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qt1-x829.google.com (mail-qt1-x829.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::829]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BB53912068D; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 12:38:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qt1-x829.google.com with SMTP id x2so23075811qtr.0; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 12:38:11 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=FKqU05t4IJ8X2Vz7bWiJly03C7iq2CdtRPB9E5xF9Ec=; b=P2YC2dgrig7GUcDaggHVQG+9rzyZDC7LfDbQHVuEL9F+5WydPXPaGkilsvtsajlVZ4 ydw76bgh8ivEqMymAokrg5dq6LYyHwgK6uo2Mw2HIcqzPUmKXLe3OzXZFnuywUAk4oFt rAFoMq8Bb3QzSDstnJtlNM2IgjAOBRwBDbERBOG/hT1leU78saoSjWCRkoeW4dFMdMPA myaIeRtL0xcFaUd/UftEKDakIQm6VuiJgNc/eNi/FaHNCtBaihmd1bpOfTXOVQ/Qoo9V ZNkXBz08lmUDIXgoX4qIj3MVHYWwHM9CWuDJaTL/P1bbKLKdyK1nqM9RJHa5YH6YnnVu lwRg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=FKqU05t4IJ8X2Vz7bWiJly03C7iq2CdtRPB9E5xF9Ec=; b=KntNWTPtnbuHUmO6zq3PEWEOx46/fokex66qhz1VCXQl889k1HzBzrjUcN+Pe6ZxX2 5m1chcq4aQd0Q4iTDo9Mu8P63gFxs98dtowg26nYFNDSgTovgjOwzV3cVIrU3J3zVVg4 Cb85woAICAbWppImKQL0Khrdy4dRDfJLAlL+9Eat0S9Jhx6erskvLyMz3BKE8KUKJnqf 2vPMu+FCTTZiK8FeT4cJbssNBJDuryDVbcTqPKxN2bJfO0AR6Qo7UUfBm2OAoE/DuUN4 80D6IYVvncUGC+VesaeftK4bPjB12heZuCvqwR2bRWaUSCVO3RVIf1pmHh1N3g948xX8 Pfvw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAW04LB/Dxkgcri7lILk7AyL0vCvB4vSXJeyXNQAx35znYGD2VlB 8HDldxhGqL8SyOlbPic0KKQX7fFG2QArcH+uxOjG8DpE X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyqak+3TzvFR42ZKEa2Ku7mFaDbRPQnKjWnsaWICZpQGrf7yJSFbTw3/cq6e+wq4khBg7JE62Bk4EnXKCHuunM= X-Received: by 2002:ac8:2194:: with SMTP id 20mr31375068qty.203.1560454690726; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 12:38:10 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: "Andrew G. Malis" Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2019 15:37:59 -0400 Message-ID: To: RFC Markdown , tools-discuss Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000008767e0058b39ab94" Archived-At: Subject: [Tools-discuss] Kramdown bug? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2019 19:38:15 -0000 --0000000000008767e0058b39ab94 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" This using kramdown-rfc2629-1.2.11 ruby 2.5.1p57 (2018-03-29 revision 63029) [x86_64-linux]. I put together an OpenFlow reference using the following: OPENFLOW: title: " OpenFlow Switch Specification, Version 1.5.1 (Protocol version 0x06)" seriesinfo: ONF TS-025 date: March 2015 target: https://www.opennetworking.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/openflow-switch-v1.5.1.pdf author: org: Open Networking Foundation The resulting reference looks like: [OPENFLOW] Open Networking Foundation, "OpenFlow Switch Specification, Version 1.5.1 (Protocol version 0x06)", ONF TS-025 , March 2015, . In particular, there is a space between the seriesinfo and the following comma, even though there is no space following it in the source file. Or am I using seriesinfo incorrectly? Thanks, Andy --0000000000008767e0058b39ab94 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
This using kramdown-rfc2629-1.2.11
ruby 2.5.1p57 (2018-= 03-29 revision 63029) [x86_64-linux].

I put together an OpenFlow ref= erence using the following:

=C2=A0 OPENFLOW:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 title:= " OpenFlow Switch Specification, Version 1.5.1 (Protocol version 0x06= )"
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 seriesinfo:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 ONF TS-025
= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 date: March 2015
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 target: https://www.opennetworking.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/openflow-switc= h-v1.5.1.pdf
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 author:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0org: Open = Networking Foundation

The resulting reference looks like:

=C2= =A0 =C2=A0[OPENFLOW]
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Op= en Networking Foundation, "OpenFlow Switch
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Specification, Version 1.5.1 (Protocol version 0x0= 6)", ONF
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 TS-025 , = March 2015, <https://www.= opennetworking.org/wp-
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 content/uploads/2014/10/openflow-switch-v1.5.1.pdf>.

In parti= cular, there is a space between the seriesinfo=C2=A0and the following comma= , even though there is no space following it in the source file. Or am I us= ing seriesinfo incorrectly?

Thanks,
Andy
=

--0000000000008767e0058b39ab94-- From nobody Thu Jun 13 12:56:58 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 374301206F2; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 12:56:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.198 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.198 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 62IUOzf2asn1; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 12:56:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 28BB71206F0; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 12:56:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.217.113] (p54A6CA4C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.166.202.76]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 45PvdV5lKszylv; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 21:56:46 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2019 21:56:45 +0200 Cc: RFC Markdown , tools-discuss X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 582148602.2133501-e8db31a574d7677fdfa23d763cd2fc59 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: To: "Andrew G. Malis" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] [Rfc-markdown] Kramdown bug? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2019 19:56:51 -0000 > seriesinfo: > ONF TS-025 Probably best fix: seriesinfo: ONF: TS-025 Each seriesinfo entry always is a key-value pair (name=3D, value=3D), = both of which are then shown, simply separated by a space. Kramdown-rfc is a bit too permissive here, allowing an empty value. = They key you gave and the empty value are separated by a space, causing = a trailing space. I don=E2=80=99t know a way to use seriesinfo to place a single string = that does not have a space (but then I never actually needed that). Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Thu Jun 13 13:04:27 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE2241206FD; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 13:04:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.997 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.997 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FyhhoDuOZRzv; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 13:04:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qt1-x833.google.com (mail-qt1-x833.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::833]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CB1D81206CA; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 13:04:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qt1-x833.google.com with SMTP id p15so4688041qtl.3; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 13:04:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=KMgVFrhlZS8GEzzIJNh7EBCTRbBsh4zV8pTEDcoWwPY=; b=LkI6n7mjVNwftC4lFu5cd2WjJat5a1z6hfI2GO1SwpW1iYMDHgSZb0vv7HOa3pELtt TMoEsNuXw9Gd0e6tDF5gLjgG+qWIUZcv/DbCR2zS1z/ptPGHHwOuNzasdgKIoH9h2UTx Ah8mHTGoVQ/NMhSWaAyMkSMyVZ3xZp+nxN6ttr2TkbtOUni7aIv7uV2VD1EdSh7K3rkN 6nGIiyztmYDYvE2kGauAw1Qa7OhgbQa51voDbswG4H4xf9DYyWh9H4l7G4AcbK6/aTwZ UlRIeSeFjd+dmQZH2QgOrYFtk3PTCqEnW3F6YfA5D4X/NUx52Cs4mZ9Mtc7vrPIYM2Bg gZ7w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=KMgVFrhlZS8GEzzIJNh7EBCTRbBsh4zV8pTEDcoWwPY=; b=si0pz3NDLHu/53PRgjqIK5J4BhhNiJDICIgwF1l+7RBkdByrenD1Re5TMvTgA5cn3Q 7YJVEbqhrYv/z9G6Gnpjdff9cAlc04qVgpYl+MeGDZRgQO2eXhNjEKShlFTORUXhAw/h GvmcqXJCcfou439CNa01I1DEm6Q9bsKJh0cE3X09uCxi+04dv3snrxNNAFiEuKZNxEnv BBVsPg47RjYoXhqsd2z0pEfZWvV8UxvKB0H0fcDB+3FS0YrOQdngLy1FMhFKd9N9XN2+ UDpjCyHuCoB2RUwVYn3nPdCKgN1GpCMgchxp9wK1FRte59eFB14fipXCifodKovnax01 K2WA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAW2peKqXg8rZ9wNnRllpU4jM+4BOpCAeR0bE1ZY1H3L+OLbJTuM hFv1+cZVxtv7s0cM7Hg8NpTqEe3v3b0SSro5ZkkbFe4Y X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyf5x+jIXrF0jZaftzGEmjf7Z/tSlCl1xjjt73m56UHDjBv76/SX3jcVn5Ts7PX70J5sQik04XETsQ0CssR1YA= X-Received: by 2002:ac8:2194:: with SMTP id 20mr31435301qty.203.1560456254930; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 13:04:14 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: "Andrew G. Malis" Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2019 16:04:03 -0400 Message-ID: To: Carsten Bormann Cc: RFC Markdown , tools-discuss Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000c343c4058b3a086d" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] [Rfc-markdown] Kramdown bug? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2019 20:04:18 -0000 --000000000000c343c4058b3a086d Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Carsten, Thanks, that fixed it! [OPENFLOW] Open Networking Foundation, "OpenFlow Switch Specification, Version 1.5.1 (Protocol version 0x06)", ONF TS-025, March 2015, . Cheers, Andy On Thu, Jun 13, 2019 at 3:56 PM Carsten Bormann wrote: > > seriesinfo: > > ONF TS-025 > > Probably best fix: > > seriesinfo: > ONF: TS-025 > > Each seriesinfo entry always is a key-value pair (name=3D, value=3D), bot= h of > which are then shown, simply separated by a space. > > Kramdown-rfc is a bit too permissive here, allowing an empty value. They > key you gave and the empty value are separated by a space, causing a > trailing space. > > I don=E2=80=99t know a way to use seriesinfo to place a single string tha= t does > not have a space (but then I never actually needed that). > > Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten > > --000000000000c343c4058b3a086d Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Carsten,

Thanks, that fixed= it!

=C2=A0 =C2=A0[OPENFLOW]
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Open Networking Foundation, "OpenFlow Switch
=C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Specification, Version 1.5.1 (Pro= tocol version 0x06)",
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 ONF TS-025, March 2015, <https://www.opennetworking.org/
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 wp-content/uploads/2014/10/openflow-switch-v1.5.1.pdf>.
Cheers,
Andy

On Thu, Jun 13, 2019 at 3:56 PM Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org> wrote:
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0seriesinfo= :
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0ONF TS-025

Probably best fix:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0seriesinfo:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0ONF: TS-0= 25

Each seriesinfo entry always is a key-value pair (name=3D, value=3D), b= oth of which are then shown, simply separated by a space.

Kramdown-rfc is a bit too permissive here, allowing an empty value.=C2= =A0 They key you gave and the empty value are separated by a space, causing= a trailing space.

I don=E2=80=99t know a way to use seriesinfo to place a single string t= hat does not have a space (but then I never actually needed that).

Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten

--000000000000c343c4058b3a086d-- From nobody Thu Jun 13 13:07:29 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C306512071D for ; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 13:07:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Fg0p_9XXUZfI for ; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 13:07:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zinfandel.tools.ietf.org (zinfandel.tools.ietf.org [IPv6:2001:1890:126c::1:2a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DCC4112071B for ; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 13:07:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from h-202-242.a357.priv.bahnhof.se ([158.174.202.242]:64796 helo=tannat.localdomain) by zinfandel.tools.ietf.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1hbW0I-0000Xt-66; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 13:07:23 -0700 To: Sandy Ginoza , Bob Hinden References: <20190612150100.84AF538185@tuna.sandelman.ca> <31204.1560354351@localhost> <13329.1560365123@localhost> <9de6bcc1-2965-eeb0-a200-5581867db81b@levkowetz.com> <8203EB90-A7D1-41E4-98E6-310B339A2941@gmail.com> Cc: Michael Richardson , Carsten Bormann , Tools Team Discussion , Heather Flanagan From: Henrik Levkowetz Message-ID: <6d62989c-3bab-2461-9bc0-b50d4e84e9d8@levkowetz.com> Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2019 22:07:14 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="kEpulI6qQiSf2oOm1dvogNlnaJskgpfbP" X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 158.174.202.242 X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rse@rfc-editor.org, tools-discuss@ietf.org, cabo@tzi.org, mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca, bob.hinden@gmail.com, sginoza@amsl.com X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1 (built Mon, 26 Dec 2011 16:24:06 +0000) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on zinfandel.tools.ietf.org) X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] emailing authors of an RFC X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2019 20:07:28 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --kEpulI6qQiSf2oOm1dvogNlnaJskgpfbP Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="gov4mQvkCBBBJcnnGUUWsUG1jfF4rRHOq"; protected-headers="v1" From: Henrik Levkowetz To: Sandy Ginoza , Bob Hinden Cc: Michael Richardson , Carsten Bormann , Tools Team Discussion , Heather Flanagan Message-ID: <6d62989c-3bab-2461-9bc0-b50d4e84e9d8@levkowetz.com> Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] emailing authors of an RFC References: <20190612150100.84AF538185@tuna.sandelman.ca> <31204.1560354351@localhost> <13329.1560365123@localhost> <9de6bcc1-2965-eeb0-a200-5581867db81b@levkowetz.com> <8203EB90-A7D1-41E4-98E6-310B339A2941@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: --gov4mQvkCBBBJcnnGUUWsUG1jfF4rRHOq Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Sandy, all, On 2019-06-13 19:20, Sandy Ginoza wrote: > Hi all, >=20 > Adding Heather to the thread. =20 >=20 > I think this is a reasonable thing that could be added to the RFC > info pages. My main concern is the ongoing maintenance effort if the > underlying addresses are supposed be kept current. Henrik, if any of > the underlying addresses become stale with the existing aliases, what > happens? Do you have a method for keeping them up to date? The draft email aliases use the latest email information from each author= 's datatracker account. If the address used when submitting a draft has been marked inactive, the current primary address for that author is used= instead. If the account of an author has no active addresses (presumably= because the author has marked them all inactive) no email will go out to that author. The aim is to use the most current address for each author. Of course, if an author doesn't keep their set of email addresses current in the datatracker, we're not better off (but also not worse off) than using the= original email address from the document. Sometimes, though, an author will ask the secretariat to update the address set of a co-author, which helps for authors who don't have a login or don't maintain their set of email addresses. What I think we could easily do is to provide an API that provides a JSON blob with the best set of author addresses for a given RFC, based on the information in the datatracker accounts of the authors; you could then use that to maintain rfc author aliases similar to the draft author aliases provided at @ietf.org. > Michael, just curious - what=E2=80=99s your use case for this? Current= ly on > the info pages, we have text suggesting the user email the WG if they > want to discuss the RFC; for example, this is what appears for RFC > 7030: > Discuss this RFC: Send questions or comments to pkix@ietf.org > >=20 > Thanks, > Sandy >=20 >> On Jun 13, 2019, at 8:22 AM, Bob Hinden wrote: >>=20 >> Henrik, >>=20 >>> On Jun 13, 2019, at 6:18 AM, Henrik Levkowetz = wrote: >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> On 2019-06-13 08:39, Carsten Bormann wrote: >>>> On Jun 12, 2019, at 22:14, Henrik Levkowetz w= rote: >>>>>=20 >>>>>> Do we have author aliases for RFCs? Maybe we don't. >>>>>=20 >>>>> No. Not sure if we should. >>>>=20 >>>> Yes, we should. (See the discussion over at=20 >>>> Archived-At: =E2=81=A8=E2=81=A9 >>>> for an example why this would be a good idea.) >>>=20 >>> Let me clarify. I wasn't trying to say that RFC author aliases would= n't be >>> a good thing, I was questioning whether the IETF should provide these= , rather >>> than the RFC Editor. >>=20 >> I agree, this is a question for the RFC Editor. >>=20 >> Personally, I am not sure I see too much value, as maintaining an alia= s over many years will be difficult. Especially for people who don=E2=80= =99t contribute frequently. But that is again a question for the RFC Edi= tor. >>=20 >> Thanks, >> Bob >>=20 >>=20 >> ___________________________________________________________ >> Tools-discuss mailing list >> Tools-discuss@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss >>=20 >> Please report datatracker.ietf.org and mailarchive.ietf.org >> bugs at http://tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb >> or send email to datatracker-project@ietf.org >>=20 >> Please report tools.ietf.org bugs at >> http://tools.ietf.org/tools/issues >> or send email to webmaster@tools.ietf.org >=20 >=20 --gov4mQvkCBBBJcnnGUUWsUG1jfF4rRHOq-- --kEpulI6qQiSf2oOm1dvogNlnaJskgpfbP Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEEifjc5+rnL1MJBcZSTptXS4+7FxoFAl0CrPIACgkQTptXS4+7 FxpqVhAAv4VryYD8IAzFr8wa6xNmOl7NKrQXGRQOSOqCMUCqQuV1gXj9IByJJJtE sdoC4akC+RSRTsme2WwdCnqPxO4HfEW+1FOPxofa5nCLawUDVq2Z/aDa7uMDpx23 UmIRdlRTZe4TgcPqKej7KPju7POnQpSk/YfMl+CAW2ZtvKrp/qNzAVVrZ+8SG5n/ Y6ANOfI701PXhQod07M39kgO2qjllgEIzvMnPU3VfCh4I79ZEQRVl5EJD3jjZSKb Sm6WrEnssba4wM1HRKbW0mVhSnrgbGCnzFZcp8r7Olr/FR3lYzwbobYWr0wgvK5y GG5DarPcAWREmS1Eyk7AGlEtLoOJCnUrAoLCN3scb6NO2hK/x2z2SDsuobFPzD4/ 3KjFtmaZwCa/TZuuZkcqqtpdiHmGLx4PMTOsjFiC4cLIE2omXAh7P1qQXNgAQ/jA thCrhWJDQuzmEP/NRcH7+4ipg0F7bOnEZUPwQyIPXl5pmVeX0udpckBj47DC+A37 uV1OvdPtgBYP+dUNccHX8hrYMX3bb3o2X6cHsuMhMHL/CcZ6aZA4bTmhoJ2pVQB9 fSNkSQVtMDTGuOwBsXj4jzvdbMsGcXL65DuICKtcRCzSdiWwKxCZznQ9vYQk+P/G fYrFOSL8zj4BGmPC//v8Ocb04nZksXeFTc78naKp7vyevjOMDFc= =Smcv -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --kEpulI6qQiSf2oOm1dvogNlnaJskgpfbP-- From nobody Thu Jun 13 17:05:15 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F6F612004B for ; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 17:05:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jLK4QPzKAWEF for ; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 17:05:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3:216:3eff:fe7c:d1f3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 55B7212000E for ; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 17:05:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (unknown [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2:56b2:3ff:fe0b:d84]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E977380BE; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 20:03:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: by sandelman.ca (Postfix, from userid 179) id D8E3BFD8; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 20:05:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7729F2F; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 20:05:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: Sandy Ginoza cc: Tools Team Discussion , Heather Flanagan In-Reply-To: References: <20190612150100.84AF538185@tuna.sandelman.ca> <31204.1560354351@localhost> <13329.1560365123@localhost> <9de6bcc1-2965-eeb0-a200-5581867db81b@levkowetz.com> <8203EB90-A7D1-41E4-98E6-310B339A2941@gmail.com> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 24.5.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] emailing authors of an RFC X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2019 00:05:13 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sandy Ginoza wrote: > the underlying addresses become stale with the existing aliases, what > happens? Do you have a method for keeping them up to date? I think that rfc-editor website could likely pull the data from DT using the API. > Michael, just curious - what=E2=80=99s your use case for this? Curre= ntly on > the info pages, we have text suggesting the user email the WG if they > want to discuss the RFC; for example, this is what appears for RFC > 7030: The RFC7030 WG, PKIX, is pretty much closed. While I actually know the authors, I felt it was more appropriate to use the alias. I don't really know if the authors are on the list either. > Discuss this RFC: Send questions or comments to pkix@ietf.org > =2D- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -=3D IPv6 IoT consulting =3D- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAl0C5LMACgkQgItw+93Q 3WVs9AgAqp4CwO84jnmE746gCqNPS1L4L9Zer5Af5Ljc6eqMl9GskFGB+KZXjq82 g4w6oZl7NBx1G6CTR83DRYLqtS46LLgTjUIYH2H+bSlh2k0TC2Bo1JmSLr9sLlEj xntUVAqbFPfDXYWS13/9wH43zlvschHRxRJjbBcyjninSBIrj4cHhmmGoVyL6AV7 vXLg6OXVIiK116PoyCsTesSZkUTNM71iQt/cp1vR077IXo4asiT8w8RVzmR4SWoz xSZHKUijtqns3Mol2HMqeM9MvOLr/lRyRcDIPZVpIVszlt5OmMxdWljM9KtfMIbA gfVvi1S0kUJxpDmn57UXB2aOsxZwSA== =K1Z2 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Mon Jun 17 05:47:43 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E86F312006A for ; Mon, 17 Jun 2019 05:47:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qaFPoni6OJdE for ; Mon, 17 Jun 2019 05:47:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B1356120048 for ; Mon, 17 Jun 2019 05:47:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (unknown [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2:56b2:3ff:fe0b:d84]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7A383808A for ; Mon, 17 Jun 2019 08:46:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: by sandelman.ca (Postfix, from userid 179) id 1B4D2107D; Mon, 17 Jun 2019 08:47:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19EE5EA0 for ; Mon, 17 Jun 2019 08:47:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Attribution: mcr X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 24.5.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: [Tools-discuss] too long draft names error X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2019 12:47:42 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain I think that there mus tbe something wrong with the error message: %make submit curl -S -F "user=mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca" -F "xml=@rfc7030est-clarifications.xml" https://datatracker.ietf.org/api/submit Validation Error: {'__all__': [u"Expected name 'draft-...' using lowercase ascii letters, digits, and hyphen; found 'draft-richardson-lamps-rfc7030est-clarifications-00'."]}% I had the same error using the web interface. I shortened the draft name to draft-richardson-lamps-rfc7030est-clarify-00 and then it worked. Maybe an additional error message would help? -- ] Never tell me the odds! | ipv6 mesh networks [ ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works | IoT architect [ ] mcr@sandelman.ca http://www.sandelman.ca/ | ruby on rails [ -- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAl0Hi+cACgkQgItw+93Q 3WVuHAf6A6HVv2G6XyTZKqpVh+Yp6AHUoScpG5XeoVEaJ4AxVLO5Gdm2o7ksLiVk IeS/iNLuSqeQScK8TY8l9TAOicWS8ZgagltDRRYCRMLrHb4AoWfh78kefLlpJ0qX kteXjrYkkvy5Z0qN3Pjq2RdsjrPMgaFd0IHAYiapamjIAAxKNRheXBX+mQWjVtZa xOrjvhi6REs2Bq/SXCJ8QUk9BPZOLueQd3z0coyXrMa+aZJFdRjIfP4+3QVeBNOA +uo0hQ+/Fd+GAfccd2iqLZPi8+qJ8e9AHEJES9URRb/hi4pI5RcTlI6C4wYf3RKb sWMxW16pb4gYaVaX7mPXlRR+fDCspw== =gDaS -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Mon Jun 17 06:25:53 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17B701200F7 for ; Mon, 17 Jun 2019 06:25:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QIHlkoVHm9a4 for ; Mon, 17 Jun 2019 06:25:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zinfandel.tools.ietf.org (zinfandel.tools.ietf.org [IPv6:2001:1890:126c::1:2a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4ECF51200B6 for ; Mon, 17 Jun 2019 06:25:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from h-202-242.a357.priv.bahnhof.se ([158.174.202.242]:53411 helo=tannat.localdomain) by zinfandel.tools.ietf.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1hcrdr-0001QO-Mg; Mon, 17 Jun 2019 06:25:48 -0700 To: Michael Richardson , tools-discuss@ietf.org References: <4461.1560775656@localhost> From: Henrik Levkowetz Message-ID: Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2019 15:25:39 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <4461.1560775656@localhost> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="MG4NUonIKPPAar3TvNbr5KIOoR27sPalS" X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 158.174.202.242 X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: tools-discuss@ietf.org, mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1 (built Mon, 26 Dec 2011 16:24:06 +0000) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on zinfandel.tools.ietf.org) X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] too long draft names error X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2019 13:25:51 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --MG4NUonIKPPAar3TvNbr5KIOoR27sPalS Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="DDH97mSOg2TxCcc3c1QRAVTlKR25SN9pG"; protected-headers="v1" From: Henrik Levkowetz To: Michael Richardson , tools-discuss@ietf.org Message-ID: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] too long draft names error References: <4461.1560775656@localhost> In-Reply-To: <4461.1560775656@localhost> --DDH97mSOg2TxCcc3c1QRAVTlKR25SN9pG Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Michael, On 2019-06-17 14:47, Michael Richardson wrote: >=20 > I think that there mus tbe something wrong with the error message: >=20 > %make submit > curl -S -F "user=3Dmcr+ietf@sandelman.ca" -F "xml=3D@rfc7030est-clarifi= cations.xml" https://datatracker.ietf.org/api/submit > Validation Error: {'__all__': [u"Expected name 'draft-...' using lowerc= ase ascii letters, digits, and hyphen; found 'draft-richardson-lamps-rfc7= 030est-clarifications-00'."]}% >=20 > I had the same error using the web interface. >=20 > I shortened the draft name to draft-richardson-lamps-rfc7030est-clarify= -00 > and then it worked. Maybe an additional error message would help? Right. Will fix. Henrik --DDH97mSOg2TxCcc3c1QRAVTlKR25SN9pG-- --MG4NUonIKPPAar3TvNbr5KIOoR27sPalS Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEEifjc5+rnL1MJBcZSTptXS4+7FxoFAl0HlNMACgkQTptXS4+7 FxpsiBAAoy8ifFHC73sBTiqa6tl2V1Wcv630elVxKcsTrZYmsa2OgEY/JNn6tZWF 9/bbzjW4lfYFRfk4wU5MPoZvZS0iYRMGkuEwEHdOF829W7DD554Da2dinhn7EGYI fEZdKkgzfl+lkg0if4jP/Mdgm1tMBeRpv4ekvr3rFjwiAgVUhwWDb0UPBbzga9vk xf2BiiiAKwjLYEZ8FizJKS1D2tv6RyxQuiyp2rNp9zJ/bceYMpKy8k5DCfj2OQIL 6leXVOk7E4Ohzl397DUrnQcmfplXnFdFrUag2xsdtVPZJmtBwjB4PfuJaiwVMk7p K7TUpVMFbqOTOK53AwDxJfBR7ZNAWnNHz4DbYoLhg1N6DztJ0E4I6j8y5A9KSZCF wzCYnxl+FlyLpH7oElaeQOK/fQK0BDN7G9GYxm5E+Hziq0n6BA9lLV2m5JIjkIFH c+Zq4m8Wx90jxL1zTLETeY0PWFb5PJZiy3zARV+kMgIg85jWBN/xI8Z5MQhOOSMl 5fxKYr3D/UisgkCQIxbvDFKULv3qFGJ3g/w+8z++VglLDuIdLjRH4RgiWCTDbAny Y6an7C3qt1k0ZE7a/ycFW3m0Wp2RRWS1rcW12X1eEoxoCdsc9R7KQaBkc8Mn2/SZ tZG8Mx0Ql2128GeqUuDMEeyieiBLV14JFUoTy2DP0szBLX3/7no= =BBMN -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --MG4NUonIKPPAar3TvNbr5KIOoR27sPalS-- From nobody Mon Jun 17 14:36:19 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6962B12008D for ; Mon, 17 Jun 2019 14:36:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lltiLJVvu0DN for ; Mon, 17 Jun 2019 14:36:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pf1-x42f.google.com (mail-pf1-x42f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::42f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 52BD8120191 for ; Mon, 17 Jun 2019 14:36:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pf1-x42f.google.com with SMTP id i189so6348867pfg.10 for ; Mon, 17 Jun 2019 14:36:11 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=/x8Kd5d5zn8YvIc+7ed+a3rFU+eT/5LeQKNHAhIfYds=; b=YLpOkECOtBG3fpIXxpPZXJocdtAaLz8Uwi0Kw8/PWWzv48FWfpmaDHMV3SdUHvrlQl NSkdaUgrJOmYJ4q7rNMx/qd3XcPDc2VuVPR0mMpYARwUsOzxIS1edshWaZPil7XbcnBH kTv8yvs9vluGdUHcmKCLxmMre7lvEpG9JIAyEIs3UA1xNKvzzoRn3Ljrn8avRpyf/ykY Dc2aTLdXPdxCDeeif/M/mRLr7MiAJvvs+Rv/pTOrFpzVrxlasCJFLVOalwZGsBVrTlix H2S3pmRhMNe/xv0ro41dQbkX3KPrhXcAq2jXzJ8OwOOUi5+2XbMxUs5cfXXXU6PpnHPo lLVA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=/x8Kd5d5zn8YvIc+7ed+a3rFU+eT/5LeQKNHAhIfYds=; b=oh5u25PCo2qr456YQ5JzR3Dn/79UzjvoAdKqHVmD5PFPTP0/a5Agk0UkQbfm5qc2GF yHAXgI6j1kIwDANpFjAh9ig+oFmOuTPblDmK3DbsHkAJIOQfXdogp8Zy1oTm6+Bk1PXL yEZvJ6znNQMF7tP+i0go3aPI102d53LsdLdqiMyod9Ryg1HZs/6fAVuPt9ECnDotpQnr JhVyXy36PJuEMyGjRKqN3X/vl5Ke2NhTNDMqVeN07raMdt7GqRhl49ULmjDHZb7ujQO0 iFju0++p4JaiDRcCxNMaDAoIN9JJieqM7+XVVRqiKUHOklbwjtjOqR6k9M9nISi2iZl2 iBuQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWWl3gcbUlhthATpXT4ZcMEC+wiBeKjFUKnKPk2G61/i1SvawBt a2qQVOHwLofU5qm20gy1zJiWkE/U X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqx6bEAbHG00YJxGWTBhUwpUMGJnRFTb9c6ysQIofT1IO+q2EznLNqyTw2qHTQa2dXeruG9O6w== X-Received: by 2002:aa7:8555:: with SMTP id y21mr59375190pfn.104.1560807370435; Mon, 17 Jun 2019 14:36:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.178.30] (32.23.255.123.dynamic.snap.net.nz. [123.255.23.32]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id g8sm11371838pfi.8.2019.06.17.14.36.08 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 17 Jun 2019 14:36:09 -0700 (PDT) To: tools-discuss@ietf.org References: <4461.1560775656@localhost> From: Brian E Carpenter Message-ID: <57d691a5-0650-cdd6-639c-3eb9e3d08750@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2019 09:36:09 +1200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.7.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] too long draft names error X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2019 21:36:14 -0000 On 18-Jun-19 01:25, Henrik Levkowetz wrote: > Hi Michael, > > On 2019-06-17 14:47, Michael Richardson wrote: >> >> I think that there mus tbe something wrong with the error message: >> >> %make submit >> curl -S -F "user=mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca" -F "xml=@rfc7030est-clarifications.xml" https://datatracker.ietf.org/api/submit >> Validation Error: {'__all__': [u"Expected name 'draft-...' using lowercase ascii letters, digits, and hyphen; found 'draft-richardson-lamps-rfc7030est-clarifications-00'."]}% >> >> I had the same error using the web interface. >> >> I shortened the draft name to draft-richardson-lamps-rfc7030est-clarify-00 >> and then it worked. Maybe an additional error message would help? > > Right. Will fix. Does anyone know why the rules limit names to 50 characters (https://www.ietf.org/standards/ids/guidelines/#7)? I'm not saying there shouldn't be a limit, but Michael's original name didn't seem unreasonable. Brian From nobody Tue Jun 18 04:42:23 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74BC2120479 for ; Tue, 18 Jun 2019 04:42:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Pt2Y_wNbIQbR for ; Tue, 18 Jun 2019 04:42:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zinfandel.tools.ietf.org (zinfandel.tools.ietf.org [IPv6:2001:1890:126c::1:2a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4D420120075 for ; Tue, 18 Jun 2019 04:42:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from h-202-242.a357.priv.bahnhof.se ([158.174.202.242]:62569 helo=tannat.localdomain) by zinfandel.tools.ietf.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1hdCVH-0002HW-Gj; Tue, 18 Jun 2019 04:42:20 -0700 To: Brian E Carpenter , tools-discuss@ietf.org References: <4461.1560775656@localhost> <57d691a5-0650-cdd6-639c-3eb9e3d08750@gmail.com> From: Henrik Levkowetz Message-ID: <5ebba0e0-f236-f0f9-2749-0daedec55678@levkowetz.com> Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2019 13:42:11 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <57d691a5-0650-cdd6-639c-3eb9e3d08750@gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="mkj1EvEsq0l76tgO8MSuMIdgmSpkluw2e" X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 158.174.202.242 X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: tools-discuss@ietf.org, brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1 (built Mon, 26 Dec 2011 16:24:06 +0000) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on zinfandel.tools.ietf.org) X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] too long draft names error X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2019 11:42:22 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --mkj1EvEsq0l76tgO8MSuMIdgmSpkluw2e Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="QriPMWm7LaNPTdUV3lukEXl85ecOlms2h"; protected-headers="v1" From: Henrik Levkowetz To: Brian E Carpenter , tools-discuss@ietf.org Message-ID: <5ebba0e0-f236-f0f9-2749-0daedec55678@levkowetz.com> Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] too long draft names error References: <4461.1560775656@localhost> <57d691a5-0650-cdd6-639c-3eb9e3d08750@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <57d691a5-0650-cdd6-639c-3eb9e3d08750@gmail.com> --QriPMWm7LaNPTdUV3lukEXl85ecOlms2h Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Brian, On 2019-06-17 23:36, Brian E Carpenter wrote: > On 18-Jun-19 01:25, Henrik Levkowetz wrote: >> Hi Michael, >>=20 >> On 2019-06-17 14:47, Michael Richardson wrote: >>> >>> I think that there mus tbe something wrong with the error message: >>> >>> %make submit >>> curl -S -F "user=3Dmcr+ietf@sandelman.ca" -F "xml=3D@rfc7030est-clari= fications.xml" https://datatracker.ietf.org/api/submit >>> Validation Error: {'__all__': [u"Expected name 'draft-...' using lowe= rcase ascii letters, digits, and hyphen; found 'draft-richardson-lamps-rf= c7030est-clarifications-00'."]}% >>> >>> I had the same error using the web interface. >>> >>> I shortened the draft name to draft-richardson-lamps-rfc7030est-clari= fy-00 >>> and then it worked. Maybe an additional error message would help? >>=20 >> Right. Will fix. >=20 > Does anyone know why the rules limit names to 50 characters (https://ww= w.ietf.org/standards/ids/guidelines/#7)? I'm not saying there shouldn't b= e a limit, but Michael's original name didn't seem unreasonable. I don't, but here is what I know: I introduced a check for the 50 character limit in idnits 1.95, 4 may 200= 6. A copy of the 1id-guidelines.txt file I have from 2002 does not mention i= t, while a copy with timestamp 24 March 2005, internal date March 25, men= tions the limit. That was written by Bill Fenner for the IESG. The current guidelines has this in Change History: Changes from Feb 8, 2005 version to March 25, 2005 version: ... o Spell out exactly how drafts are named. which aligns with the explicit mention of the 50 character limit in the March 24 version. Best regards, Henrik --QriPMWm7LaNPTdUV3lukEXl85ecOlms2h-- --mkj1EvEsq0l76tgO8MSuMIdgmSpkluw2e Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEEifjc5+rnL1MJBcZSTptXS4+7FxoFAl0IzhQACgkQTptXS4+7 FxrrjxAAhGx3L1r52TRpBPz1pq0ID/lqJUTP9tOsgh2aebI0sg/tmKGI6753GoAZ yMwCwZrGjt+VE57Mdue4gKDhEfR/UVj6hCr8i72hQc3O8mvF82Rf9v7fmmKGen5/ XJLkpxCjX6M3o1AmR9XrXsbCbQVT5qXxrNMYON1krrynTYX8L2+z2ZjbEtQfjiU5 YdyhPHxWN710xBCFNfabkM9nP4ox5CeDWG5R0Z3RNbhdzd477YPCzlMOB1v4dWZQ vj7c0uRDno/qwcch4TdCLVAvcGdbpZZhT9rrcpbtoWM2bYKeHTnYvm79gNAphKTf yAmyPbyIo3cKGrwmBlyyeRiT8ucbf9iygCWeZzHKziHlHxWWnTVxNiVQEdCW9AaC nGnmzQNrbIFtFkcjRXmmFbl0Ra8x8FRztbAR42oJ8UP3v404rl8yePSb3se9fCGF F0OTdr/cPXvdjlRVgg+ZJjhuPvt3j1Kf7g6rXANTkNunELPRF1YlnCLV9Q4qPGDk A+2QgPRqrRs1lhHy8yRjg1IMs6guoAxniIZLM3wgpxhCWYnMdeCeDQ5tnKQEm2kT vSBfISlu01aUqhr+MrafibljFx4l0QUqiuhWzvLB7eTgQam4IkXP2bvh5Zaph4Ur CHVPHV5zHsuiuFYKuOeB+4siRIP/7N7BZ0uMzM8nSJW5ijBv11A= =PS+w -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --mkj1EvEsq0l76tgO8MSuMIdgmSpkluw2e-- From nobody Fri Jun 21 11:17:41 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A064D1200DF for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2019 11:17:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.197 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.197 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0Kzu0Om8NeMt for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2019 11:17:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6FD811200B8 for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2019 11:17:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.217.113] (p54A6CA4C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.166.202.76]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 45Vn3L2PV8zyXW; Fri, 21 Jun 2019 20:17:34 +0200 (CEST) From: Carsten Bormann Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 582833852.12536-c3368f3a288d63a3b12b91830efc84bc Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2019 20:17:33 +0200 Message-Id: <4F0329F2-5B73-4659-9158-74568B059E3D@tzi.org> To: tools-discuss X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: [Tools-discuss] Bib entry for IANA.enterprise-numbers... X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2019 18:17:40 -0000 =E2=80=A6 looks like this: [PEN] IANA, "enterprise-numbers", . (anchor supplied by me), when I=E2=80=99d have expected at least = something like [PEN] IANA, =E2=80=9CPrivate Enterprise Numbers=E2=80=9D, . This might be related to the fact that this particular registry does not = have a HTML version. Compare: [IANA.cbor-tags] IANA, "Concise Binary Object Representation (CBOR) Tags", . Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Sun Jun 23 18:05:52 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D326120271 for ; Sun, 23 Jun 2019 18:05:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.801 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.801 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=mnot.net header.b=eSZG4Mmu; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=Yl/TG0p0 Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qR71YoosT1EZ for ; Sun, 23 Jun 2019 18:05:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from out2-smtp.messagingengine.com (out2-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.26]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 242E612004A for ; Sun, 23 Jun 2019 18:05:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from compute3.internal (compute3.nyi.internal [10.202.2.43]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA59B2151C for ; Sun, 23 Jun 2019 21:05:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailfrontend2 ([10.202.2.163]) by compute3.internal (MEProxy); Sun, 23 Jun 2019 21:05:47 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mnot.net; h=from :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:subject :message-id:date:to; s=fm3; bh=2MCT27jfD1tiHt90ceHM0ca33hIHyezI6 2N1krBSvCE=; b=eSZG4MmuFhkmjq7HC5ULv7PPQpnVstd1FhUDZZ0JTDAMEXjsK obRZnIimOOV0Si2P+GIqlCRHjZVL+bB6uvooEhgh+zqvOXkG3+DMhFk31ZhoagJI va2Qsi42VSUQF8splxVRbilwzJy65becHVCGATlJIr8KUmyQUkuJhkfZ99kcNpNC S0H0PjXKMkCy0k6TroCnqqLZKOLtcG/iNLfYldKyG3hfQJLtmIlTxPGQUmLKc1PT Agy1QZ7B7plcUDezal3rK9B7ZHPoJPtwxjUIojvMaWuFe1tIEssLkL0boF+jvrza XR/H2ZWZk1PdP5WXUjaqb89Qph2ZvjLWkA/Hg== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:to:x-me-proxy :x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm3; bh=2MCT27 jfD1tiHt90ceHM0ca33hIHyezI62N1krBSvCE=; b=Yl/TG0p0tmA/VI07Nyelgc Sj+a1WOZExEbybHVE3eVp0oYO1n6RzCrza80XYLuopNo4YQQv5STjyhkl4yDKYFk vfEr8uMZN3bYA9nGIrFFR/iTeL1kwv0gVf1kGCnY6RGvfXJC2OvtYwZvqcxs/ir+ gSuS56ob4G8rVhJxFdtW/bqAvfzkFN41cOM2isNQoTWv2VAja5N68/fR4gyPiL5A S/beOJ1hBnNBdWtdrfPl/78y8f76fLmxJC0W7h1t0WO+dy7Zq5j/+6Xvp8J/lC6K hT4Lt8C2VCn4thqHapIKzhYg8KCVu8TQEH7SSTaBe4sCWObMhKqLcbPfaDRGS8GA == X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduvddruddugdegvdcutefuodetggdotefrodftvf curfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfghnecu uegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecunecujfgurhephfgtgfgguffkfffvofesthhqmhdthh dtvdenucfhrhhomhepofgrrhhkucfpohhtthhinhhghhgrmhcuoehmnhhothesmhhnohht rdhnvghtqeenucffohhmrghinhepmhhnohhtrdhnvghtnecukfhppedugeegrddufeeird dujeehrddvkeenucfrrghrrghmpehmrghilhhfrhhomhepmhhnohhtsehmnhhothdrnhgv thenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedt X-ME-Proxy: Received: from macbook-pro.mnot.net (unknown [144.136.175.28]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 293E5380076 for ; Sun, 23 Jun 2019 21:05:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Nottingham Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Message-Id: <11E75566-9C0B-4A55-93BF-6D2AF3C013D2@mnot.net> Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 11:05:38 +1000 To: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) Archived-At: Subject: [Tools-discuss] postconfirm X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 01:05:51 -0000 Hello, For the escape-workshop-pc mailing list, we had a number of submissions = from non-IETF people get stuck at the confirmation stage, because people = who were not familiar with postman norms didn't realise they had to = respond to the confirm message. In particular, the Subject of the e-mail is "Confirm: ...", and the most = prominent line is "Confirmation of list posting -- confirmation ID: ..." = -- which can be read to say that THIS e-mail is confirming that posting = has already occurred. Would it be possible to rewrite the confirmation message to make it more = clear to busy readers that they need to act on the message? Cheers, -- Mark Nottingham https://www.mnot.net/ From nobody Sun Jun 23 19:28:23 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 161411202E8 for ; Sun, 23 Jun 2019 19:28:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DATGycBlEZwM for ; Sun, 23 Jun 2019 19:28:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zinfandel.tools.ietf.org (zinfandel.tools.ietf.org [IPv6:2001:1890:126c::1:2a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E9144120288 for ; Sun, 23 Jun 2019 19:28:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from h-202-242.a357.priv.bahnhof.se ([158.174.202.242]:53595 helo=tannat.localdomain) by zinfandel.tools.ietf.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1hfEiS-00061L-6K; Sun, 23 Jun 2019 19:28:20 -0700 To: Mark Nottingham , tools-discuss@ietf.org References: <11E75566-9C0B-4A55-93BF-6D2AF3C013D2@mnot.net> From: Henrik Levkowetz Message-ID: Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 04:28:12 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <11E75566-9C0B-4A55-93BF-6D2AF3C013D2@mnot.net> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="Xe36mt8eeqh57CPnc2FDpnUe075FEssh1" X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 158.174.202.242 X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: tools-discuss@ietf.org, mnot@mnot.net X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1 (built Mon, 26 Dec 2011 16:24:06 +0000) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on zinfandel.tools.ietf.org) X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] postconfirm X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 02:28:22 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --Xe36mt8eeqh57CPnc2FDpnUe075FEssh1 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="ELFJ4mKfnQoPsfJ83vLC6pWKifXlOhicS"; protected-headers="v1" From: Henrik Levkowetz To: Mark Nottingham , tools-discuss@ietf.org Message-ID: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] postconfirm References: <11E75566-9C0B-4A55-93BF-6D2AF3C013D2@mnot.net> In-Reply-To: <11E75566-9C0B-4A55-93BF-6D2AF3C013D2@mnot.net> --ELFJ4mKfnQoPsfJ83vLC6pWKifXlOhicS Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Mark, On 2019-06-24 03:05, Mark Nottingham wrote: > Hello, >=20 > For the escape-workshop-pc mailing list, we had a number of > submissions from non-IETF people get stuck at the confirmation stage, > because people who were not familiar with postman norms didn't > realise they had to respond to the confirm message. >=20 > In particular, the Subject of the e-mail is "Confirm: ...", and the > most prominent line is "Confirmation of list posting -- confirmation > ID: ..." -- which can be read to say that THIS e-mail is confirming > that posting has already occurred. >=20 > Would it be possible to rewrite the confirmation message to make it > more clear to busy readers that they need to act on the message? Certainly. Do you have a proposal for the changed message? Regards, Henrik --ELFJ4mKfnQoPsfJ83vLC6pWKifXlOhicS-- --Xe36mt8eeqh57CPnc2FDpnUe075FEssh1 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEEifjc5+rnL1MJBcZSTptXS4+7FxoFAl0QNTwACgkQTptXS4+7 FxpP7BAAj5jtjMKa4VxDzaXtjgDT7b45d9KMmiKk/L5UmUUUKSjT1Hw67U1VhKVT R81bhTEfglkzgFYHOb12VVGKsUulLoyE+xvWTPUXvN3zJUI6u5aKE+D0pGmguyQi fMv7TRMATbMFoFjImUFCatTp6lOyvN5ObosYRA9CUc6+buV1lrjuWhDskzf6NTyq 6T2lE7wNdhDMidD0FZymlFEr8qZ0pZOHDvloSthOeJGcF+JzluwZZYVZUog74s/+ D8veP5pVBkGY013oL6h4c+mOr5goubyhXKCDLGeLC6ynwIU2tf0G7WslgLniqs9O IpINo3pmLS5z+chzUOCF/+zwgHy5Ht6Rhnez4OoHYAQquzQpD895GBUK3btwckY9 jvsnmPh+ximXYgMU6xICfzbxmgIzCwkO50xgeQou893Z4wkxFQhJ9j9z26Da4P9F MMxrV0iME4jgh924yDx0hK3l1TsBYtcZdB7KDHIleXomOEmJm9lw7lrVyXzwRc/R 0hLFkZnzoZQGZ4liE8VvPB0Hsic8TWF0zZISSi8NfT+Wm8sSe8nd0CO5OTCiDOOh 3we9jOYCSUzbWpQyPbR11vFcfL3LZOxCljO8/ogGziyFCNFEOd1gCmcAHCXNf6O+ CEwcUV6jc+iwce4nti159u659EqRztO7uIaFerLO85wHEYVq6sc= =2ItQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Xe36mt8eeqh57CPnc2FDpnUe075FEssh1-- From nobody Mon Jun 24 11:23:43 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDD0212006B for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 11:23:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.679 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.679 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_INVALID=0.1, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, T_SPF_HELO_PERMERROR=0.01, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=fail (1024-bit key) reason="fail (message has been altered)" header.d=nostrum.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SCdAmNA1mTm5 for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 11:23:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 37A9C1201E9 for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 11:23:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from unultimate.local ([47.186.39.7]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id x5OINbab028853 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Mon, 24 Jun 2019 13:23:38 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from rjsparks@nostrum.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nostrum.com; s=default; t=1561400619; bh=g8Uz5zK8b2Zm+sgxlgpbmnk4L0rej0arHDvCgWPWyLw=; h=Subject:To:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=Y4avQJ6Re4g9abhmcMsJaWYkaSBDab/RAYaYm8xibQe7AiCvijdEAemLcU2j8maRC eRqjzCjBAwxixpIMeSFZg9gwvKJE2QABBwLRn84HAX6ICtF/FjPFK4zItQhk6xBMau 1t38v5NR/6rYVJkxOrPPg9cUEDJ/HmM8Xc+b9LRc= X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host [47.186.39.7] claimed to be unultimate.local To: Henrik Levkowetz , Mark Nottingham , tools-discuss@ietf.org References: <11E75566-9C0B-4A55-93BF-6D2AF3C013D2@mnot.net> From: Robert Sparks Message-ID: <38e51d14-ff2e-209b-0707-2659e4967a02@nostrum.com> Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 13:23:37 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.13; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.7.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------7FE490745A0BD32A38EA5580" Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] postconfirm X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 18:23:42 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------7FE490745A0BD32A38EA5580 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Perhaps start the subject with "Action Required:" ? RjS On 6/23/19 9:28 PM, Henrik Levkowetz wrote: > Hi Mark, > > On 2019-06-24 03:05, Mark Nottingham wrote: >> Hello, >> >> For the escape-workshop-pc mailing list, we had a number of >> submissions from non-IETF people get stuck at the confirmation stage, >> because people who were not familiar with postman norms didn't >> realise they had to respond to the confirm message. >> >> In particular, the Subject of the e-mail is "Confirm: ...", and the >> most prominent line is "Confirmation of list posting -- confirmation >> ID: ..." -- which can be read to say that THIS e-mail is confirming >> that posting has already occurred. >> >> Would it be possible to rewrite the confirmation message to make it >> more clear to busy readers that they need to act on the message? > Certainly. > > Do you have a proposal for the changed message? > > > Regards, > > Henrik > > > ___________________________________________________________ > Tools-discuss mailing list > Tools-discuss@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss > > Please report datatracker.ietf.org and mailarchive.ietf.org > bugs at http://tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb > or send email to datatracker-project@ietf.org > > Please report tools.ietf.org bugs at > http://tools.ietf.org/tools/issues > or send email to webmaster@tools.ietf.org --------------7FE490745A0BD32A38EA5580 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Perhaps start the subject with "Action Required:" ?

RjS

On 6/23/19 9:28 PM, Henrik Levkowetz wrote:
Hi Mark,

On 2019-06-24 03:05, Mark Nottingham wrote:

Hello,

For the escape-workshop-pc mailing list, we had a number of
submissions from non-IETF people get stuck at the confirmation stage,
because people who were not familiar with postman norms didn't
realise they had to respond to the confirm message.

In particular, the Subject of the e-mail is "Confirm: ...", and the
most prominent line is "Confirmation of list posting -- confirmation
ID: ..." -- which can be read to say that THIS e-mail is confirming
that posting has already occurred.

Would it be possible to rewrite the confirmation message to make it
more clear to busy readers that they need to act on the message?

Certainly.

Do you have a proposal for the changed message?


Regards,

	Henrik



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Please report tools.ietf.org bugs at
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--------------7FE490745A0BD32A38EA5580-- From nobody Mon Jun 24 16:52:16 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32BF012010F for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 16:52:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.701 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.701 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=mnot.net header.b=fCnIumL4; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=fcn3Yyqr Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id D_4K_BrZoxi5 for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 16:52:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wout1-smtp.messagingengine.com (wout1-smtp.messagingengine.com [64.147.123.24]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DA632120041 for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 16:52:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from compute3.internal (compute3.nyi.internal [10.202.2.43]) by mailout.west.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 045DC523; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 19:52:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailfrontend1 ([10.202.2.162]) by compute3.internal (MEProxy); Mon, 24 Jun 2019 19:52:10 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mnot.net; h= content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; s=fm3; bh=n IakArrVSeorPoHHsrKnzbmjwa3OBB3VHKtp1hnj19o=; b=fCnIumL4ChtQJLm6j to2PseEmeicPUFa5CFxdiSsIy8e9X5EueuokGQ9C+QVzx8oKF4Bm5zHO5o77Jhz2 4/5A7DGe1+iy2tV/0dEZOM82NgxKZBDV9S2/q0ygRFgqg1gez1hykbHwTVpUIGtH RdnWbT7e8Ls0rPRIgNrGX42f1j7YA/HMWIOyYDWFN2LyfiD2kP1+WZq84cfx6GDM BN3U8HVcLcOaDSsZ+u1NFLDLWySyA/VmVViPMCUp/wERjLXBYr8mT7nMZPqwY+KS lpwuFQ5xEtBOtUGFNh2GiYJy8Ekaocefc5350Orr9B5V18xJFwt/f03NIoOvpTd2 s/mWA== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender :x-sasl-enc; s=fm3; bh=nIakArrVSeorPoHHsrKnzbmjwa3OBB3VHKtp1hnj1 9o=; b=fcn3YyqrVoPJHooG5GpQrtD+ioiBdNS42ckhL92Hc1FcR2Q2Cddf7n/BR gUn1LZONB+mL1lJdei2cjVfZR0E6US7AkrrxfBKMgK+gI36ZGnJxEE5rmyx5gqv7 KCX3WoTdh7z4cOVF1i/oWUyfd8dIs255u9hGcjAaKXdmxed1fL6E1Clb+rl/0IXI bWt9Gt3e2AvQruEPLob+xptIWlFr+2alarUX1fg+6fsTxrEJDDN0Z3zxLelxkK63 kLRoUGfbhDPsvXzY/x3/GpTGLxF203+4JZEi4Xujdo1LxN1q/ZvhAasuXD5+mdBK FRoixFcS5y7ZifHAgA9PM+7sriKZg== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduvddrudefgdeftdcutefuodetggdotefrodftvf curfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfghnecu uegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmdenuc fjughrpegtggfuhfgjfffgkfhfvffosehtqhhmtdhhtddvnecuhfhrohhmpeforghrkhcu pfhothhtihhnghhhrghmuceomhhnohhtsehmnhhothdrnhgvtheqnecuffhomhgrihhnpe hivghtfhdrohhrghdpmhhnohhtrdhnvghtnecukfhppedugeegrddufeeirddujeehrddv keenucfrrghrrghmpehmrghilhhfrhhomhepmhhnohhtsehmnhhothdrnhgvthenucevlh hushhtvghrufhiiigvpedt X-ME-Proxy: Received: from macbook-pro.mnot.net (unknown [144.136.175.28]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 9092180060; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 19:52:06 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) From: Mark Nottingham In-Reply-To: <38e51d14-ff2e-209b-0707-2659e4967a02@nostrum.com> Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 09:52:02 +1000 Cc: Henrik Levkowetz , tools-discuss@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <1F2CA98A-E689-4955-8AE0-BC1F4B9E9F9A@mnot.net> References: <11E75566-9C0B-4A55-93BF-6D2AF3C013D2@mnot.net> <38e51d14-ff2e-209b-0707-2659e4967a02@nostrum.com> To: Robert Sparks X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] postconfirm X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 23:52:14 -0000 That would really help. Could we also start the mail with something = like: "Attention: your message has not been posted to the list yet. Please = confirm your posting by..."? Cheers, > On 25 Jun 2019, at 4:23 am, Robert Sparks = wrote: >=20 > Perhaps start the subject with "Action Required:" ? >=20 > RjS >=20 > On 6/23/19 9:28 PM, Henrik Levkowetz wrote: >> Hi Mark, >>=20 >> On 2019-06-24 03:05, Mark Nottingham wrote: >>=20 >>> Hello, >>>=20 >>> For the escape-workshop-pc mailing list, we had a number of >>> submissions from non-IETF people get stuck at the confirmation = stage, >>> because people who were not familiar with postman norms didn't >>> realise they had to respond to the confirm message. >>>=20 >>> In particular, the Subject of the e-mail is "Confirm: ...", and the >>> most prominent line is "Confirmation of list posting -- confirmation >>> ID: ..." -- which can be read to say that THIS e-mail is confirming >>> that posting has already occurred. >>>=20 >>> Would it be possible to rewrite the confirmation message to make it >>> more clear to busy readers that they need to act on the message? >>>=20 >> Certainly. >>=20 >> Do you have a proposal for the changed message? >>=20 >>=20 >> Regards, >>=20 >> Henrik >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> ___________________________________________________________ >> Tools-discuss mailing list >>=20 >> Tools-discuss@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss >>=20 >>=20 >> Please report datatracker.ietf.org and mailarchive.ietf.org >> bugs at=20 >> http://tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb >>=20 >> or send email to=20 >> datatracker-project@ietf.org >>=20 >>=20 >> Please report tools.ietf.org bugs at >>=20 >> http://tools.ietf.org/tools/issues >>=20 >> or send email to=20 >> webmaster@tools.ietf.org -- Mark Nottingham https://www.mnot.net/ From nobody Mon Jun 24 17:29:02 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B838D1201E8 for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 17:29:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6LpETjBrqUNY for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 17:28:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zinfandel.tools.ietf.org (zinfandel.tools.ietf.org [IPv6:2001:1890:126c::1:2a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0EDB41201EC for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 17:28:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from h-202-242.a357.priv.bahnhof.se ([158.174.202.242]:59364 helo=tannat.localdomain) by zinfandel.tools.ietf.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1hfZKS-0003os-EH; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 17:28:58 -0700 To: Mark Nottingham , Robert Sparks References: <11E75566-9C0B-4A55-93BF-6D2AF3C013D2@mnot.net> <38e51d14-ff2e-209b-0707-2659e4967a02@nostrum.com> <1F2CA98A-E689-4955-8AE0-BC1F4B9E9F9A@mnot.net> Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org From: Henrik Levkowetz Message-ID: <156f4f16-ecfa-ca46-48c3-63ece3b1d575@levkowetz.com> Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 02:28:48 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <1F2CA98A-E689-4955-8AE0-BC1F4B9E9F9A@mnot.net> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="av0Air813kg7orTXJQPV41m7TkHqWaIMV" X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 158.174.202.242 X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: tools-discuss@ietf.org, rjsparks@nostrum.com, mnot@mnot.net X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1 (built Mon, 26 Dec 2011 16:24:06 +0000) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on zinfandel.tools.ietf.org) X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] postconfirm X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 00:29:01 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --av0Air813kg7orTXJQPV41m7TkHqWaIMV Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="TjJ67rEvq0UGoqncVdarfg2sx2wFMTXTN"; protected-headers="v1" From: Henrik Levkowetz To: Mark Nottingham , Robert Sparks Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org Message-ID: <156f4f16-ecfa-ca46-48c3-63ece3b1d575@levkowetz.com> Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] postconfirm References: <11E75566-9C0B-4A55-93BF-6D2AF3C013D2@mnot.net> <38e51d14-ff2e-209b-0707-2659e4967a02@nostrum.com> <1F2CA98A-E689-4955-8AE0-BC1F4B9E9F9A@mnot.net> In-Reply-To: <1F2CA98A-E689-4955-8AE0-BC1F4B9E9F9A@mnot.net> --TjJ67rEvq0UGoqncVdarfg2sx2wFMTXTN Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Mark, Robert, On 2019-06-25 01:52, Mark Nottingham wrote: > That would really help. Could we also start the mail with something lik= e: >=20 > "Attention: your message has not been posted to the list yet. Please co= nfirm your posting by..."? The body is based on a template, so easily changed. Changing the subject= line has repercussions on the code, so let's see if a body change would be enough. So, the proposal is to change the body as follows: Old template text: Confirmation of list posting -- confirmation ID: $filename =20 The ietf.org mailing-list server has received a list posting from=20 $sender to $recipient with the subject=20 '$[msg["subject"]]' =20 As the sender address isn't subscribed to the list, and has not been confirmed earlier, we have to request a confirmation of the address. To confirm the address, send a message to $recipient, with the same subject line as this message. =20 (Simply sending a 'reply' to this message should work from most email interfaces, since that usually leaves the subject line in the right form. The reply's additional "Re:" is ok.) =20 If you do not wish your posting to the list to go through, simply disregard this message. Questions to $[conf.admin_address]. New template text: Attention: your message has not been posted to the list yet. Please confirm your posting by responding to this message: =20 The ietf.org mailing-list server has received a list posting from=20 $sender to $recipient with the subject=20 '$[msg["subject"]]' As the sender address isn't subscribed to the list, and has not been confirmed earlier, we have to request a confirmation of the address. To confirm the address, send a message to $recipient, with the same subject line as this message. (Simply sending a 'reply' to this message should work from most email interfaces, since that usually leaves the subject line in the right form. The reply's additional "Re:" is ok.) If you do not wish your posting to the list to go through, simply disregard this message. Questions to $[conf.admin_address]. Does that match your proposal? Henrik >=20 > Cheers, >=20 >=20 >=20 >> On 25 Jun 2019, at 4:23 am, Robert Sparks wrote= : >>=20 >> Perhaps start the subject with "Action Required:" ? >>=20 >> RjS >>=20 >> On 6/23/19 9:28 PM, Henrik Levkowetz wrote: >>> Hi Mark, >>>=20 >>> On 2019-06-24 03:05, Mark Nottingham wrote: >>>=20 >>>> Hello, >>>>=20 >>>> For the escape-workshop-pc mailing list, we had a number of >>>> submissions from non-IETF people get stuck at the confirmation stage= , >>>> because people who were not familiar with postman norms didn't >>>> realise they had to respond to the confirm message. >>>>=20 >>>> In particular, the Subject of the e-mail is "Confirm: ...", and the >>>> most prominent line is "Confirmation of list posting -- confirmation= >>>> ID: ..." -- which can be read to say that THIS e-mail is confirming >>>> that posting has already occurred. >>>>=20 >>>> Would it be possible to rewrite the confirmation message to make it >>>> more clear to busy readers that they need to act on the message? >>>>=20 >>> Certainly. >>>=20 >>> Do you have a proposal for the changed message? >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Regards, >>>=20 >>> Henrik >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> ___________________________________________________________ >>> Tools-discuss mailing list >>>=20 >>> Tools-discuss@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Please report datatracker.ietf.org and mailarchive.ietf.org >>> bugs at=20 >>> http://tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb >>>=20 >>> or send email to=20 >>> datatracker-project@ietf.org >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Please report tools.ietf.org bugs at >>>=20 >>> http://tools.ietf.org/tools/issues >>>=20 >>> or send email to=20 >>> webmaster@tools.ietf.org >=20 > -- > Mark Nottingham https://www.mnot.net/ >=20 > ___________________________________________________________ > Tools-discuss mailing list > Tools-discuss@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss >=20 > Please report datatracker.ietf.org and mailarchive.ietf.org > bugs at http://tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb > or send email to datatracker-project@ietf.org >=20 > Please report tools.ietf.org bugs at > http://tools.ietf.org/tools/issues > or send email to webmaster@tools.ietf.org >=20 --TjJ67rEvq0UGoqncVdarfg2sx2wFMTXTN-- --av0Air813kg7orTXJQPV41m7TkHqWaIMV Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEEifjc5+rnL1MJBcZSTptXS4+7FxoFAl0RasAACgkQTptXS4+7 Fxp0bQ//b/HlEluZT9VI7VKT3rwfGXne53uiFskCAFGDwLJ2RPnfQHxybFWMYr+N pF85zH/Mh/DcGxfGI39v2Vr5U9qGM2P09+0BJ+/swFOpeZhLF9PTz8xuP5+miXDq 6AyQDteqEB0v95KBF1wfgyesZXxBMI/vpKWGTzy9adI5P6y28/QNf68z9Qe/Ui06 /mH1bJS4rbhVZVu5tcUTZOIK8SiqNJ7BQIODAs3K57gsHJvJW2InBx4+wVP4J3Rc 9IAGm602+nVJt20Y8uGUSAXC4he9xMJdHzN5NYeEVSwie1GAMi3QkFcoqNEMpnvA 7qqXwF8LBVnoMupAfem38CpCLVylpwhHxTedX5KmdKY0SbWLVX+sS9IfJnRSjPU4 EaNnlvnNCRx5ds+UdlCqqPr3x+H5xMloyudScc9DgGS7wcem+srzAwFZ07PWqU7D mpyCOaUSB+NfCvuVcXA2SVO37lhUD1XOCMkgTMpMUuMYNUVtTxESTIpCrEOe0JaV PXeoFq9ZDIR9JHuCrxjHOfExkLRb4qjdTej4eLo7uMCwad3Ea3uOrIOuBMfdtrA8 ay4uoxknDVK3Vx1zeeCmEnJFxs0+d6P8sTIqHqLZNE6CRroMW/fGh2IcrEY8VH2K TD+MzDsvI7jYYr8wK84gEEXMi6gN6wIQIJ8DAMc7iyRGv2S8f/g= =cJn4 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --av0Air813kg7orTXJQPV41m7TkHqWaIMV-- From nobody Mon Jun 24 19:36:04 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 988191201F0 for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 19:36:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.979 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.979 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, T_SPF_HELO_PERMERROR=0.01, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nostrum.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jlV3A_J-I33B for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 19:36:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 588EF1200B4 for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 19:36:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.3.102] ([47.186.39.7]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id x5P2ZwFA009000 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Mon, 24 Jun 2019 21:35:59 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from rjsparks@nostrum.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nostrum.com; s=default; t=1561430159; bh=1bIWmYeESpCRofu5V3dHD5P5b3b7sBIfwCD3gw0gUw0=; h=Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To; b=ZKGbrqGRk903cpRkBaFzCpMtjvzXF15XHeQZztnwaboO4+H+BFGv9bhI3hJXVig6h LipQ6W6ihP3qFzOUwfzlMSZDYp0DDFZHtb94DsJki0+tHbKSp+iZADHVvkN+x4pNAo cCsO/sZfXGxxkU4pe0Tk2G0LwRZjrI/bRqcQ004M= X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host [47.186.39.7] claimed to be [192.168.3.102] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) From: Robert Sparks X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (16E227) In-Reply-To: <156f4f16-ecfa-ca46-48c3-63ece3b1d575@levkowetz.com> Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 21:35:57 -0500 Cc: Mark Nottingham , tools-discuss@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <9F9AF464-7598-42F2-9EAF-DAE5353C5C24@nostrum.com> References: <11E75566-9C0B-4A55-93BF-6D2AF3C013D2@mnot.net> <38e51d14-ff2e-209b-0707-2659e4967a02@nostrum.com> <1F2CA98A-E689-4955-8AE0-BC1F4B9E9F9A@mnot.net> <156f4f16-ecfa-ca46-48c3-63ece3b1d575@levkowetz.com> To: Henrik Levkowetz Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] postconfirm X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 02:36:03 -0000 I think mark=E2=80=99s point is that the people he was trying to reach triag= ed the mail on the subject and never looked at the body (so a body change wo= uld be a no-op).=20 As an aside, we have other templates that pull the envelope into the templat= e. Perhaps this one should go there too? Sent from my iPhone > On Jun 24, 2019, at 7:28 PM, Henrik Levkowetz wrote= : >=20 > Hi Mark, Robert, >=20 >> On 2019-06-25 01:52, Mark Nottingham wrote: >> That would really help. Could we also start the mail with something like:= >>=20 >> "Attention: your message has not been posted to the list yet. Please conf= irm your posting by..."? >=20 > The body is based on a template, so easily changed. Changing the subject > line has repercussions on the code, so let's see if a body change would > be enough. So, the proposal is to change the body as follows: >=20 > Old template text: >=20 > Confirmation of list posting -- confirmation ID: $filename >=20 > The ietf.org mailing-list server has received a list posting from=20 > $sender to $recipient with the subject=20 > '$[msg["subject"]]' >=20 > As the sender address isn't subscribed to the list, and has not been > confirmed earlier, we have to request a confirmation of the address. > To confirm the address, send a message to $recipient, > with the same subject line as this message. >=20 > (Simply sending a 'reply' to this message should work from most email > interfaces, since that usually leaves the subject line in the right > form. The reply's additional "Re:" is ok.) >=20 > If you do not wish your posting to the list to go through, simply > disregard this message. Questions to $[conf.admin_address]. >=20 > New template text: >=20 > Attention: your message has not been posted to the list yet. > Please confirm your posting by responding to this message: >=20 > The ietf.org mailing-list server has received a list posting from=20 > $sender to $recipient with the subject=20 > '$[msg["subject"]]' >=20 > As the sender address isn't subscribed to the list, and has not been > confirmed earlier, we have to request a confirmation of the address. > To confirm the address, send a message to $recipient, > with the same subject line as this message. >=20 > (Simply sending a 'reply' to this message should work from most email > interfaces, since that usually leaves the subject line in the right > form. The reply's additional "Re:" is ok.) >=20 > If you do not wish your posting to the list to go through, simply > disregard this message. Questions to $[conf.admin_address]. >=20 > Does that match your proposal? >=20 >=20 > Henrik >=20 >=20 >>=20 >> Cheers, >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>> On 25 Jun 2019, at 4:23 am, Robert Sparks wrote: >>>=20 >>> Perhaps start the subject with "Action Required:" ? >>>=20 >>> RjS >>>=20 >>>> On 6/23/19 9:28 PM, Henrik Levkowetz wrote: >>>> Hi Mark, >>>>=20 >>>>> On 2019-06-24 03:05, Mark Nottingham wrote: >>>>>=20 >>>>> Hello, >>>>>=20 >>>>> For the escape-workshop-pc mailing list, we had a number of >>>>> submissions from non-IETF people get stuck at the confirmation stage, >>>>> because people who were not familiar with postman norms didn't >>>>> realise they had to respond to the confirm message. >>>>>=20 >>>>> In particular, the Subject of the e-mail is "Confirm: ...", and the >>>>> most prominent line is "Confirmation of list posting -- confirmation >>>>> ID: ..." -- which can be read to say that THIS e-mail is confirming >>>>> that posting has already occurred. >>>>>=20 >>>>> Would it be possible to rewrite the confirmation message to make it >>>>> more clear to busy readers that they need to act on the message? >>>>>=20 >>>> Certainly. >>>>=20 >>>> Do you have a proposal for the changed message? >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> Regards, >>>>=20 >>>> Henrik >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> ___________________________________________________________ >>>> Tools-discuss mailing list >>>>=20 >>>> Tools-discuss@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> Please report datatracker.ietf.org and mailarchive.ietf.org >>>> bugs at=20 >>>> http://tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb >>>>=20 >>>> or send email to=20 >>>> datatracker-project@ietf.org >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> Please report tools.ietf.org bugs at >>>>=20 >>>> http://tools.ietf.org/tools/issues >>>>=20 >>>> or send email to=20 >>>> webmaster@tools.ietf.org >>=20 >> -- >> Mark Nottingham https://www.mnot.net/ >>=20 >> ___________________________________________________________ >> Tools-discuss mailing list >> Tools-discuss@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss >>=20 >> Please report datatracker.ietf.org and mailarchive.ietf.org >> bugs at http://tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb >> or send email to datatracker-project@ietf.org >>=20 >> Please report tools.ietf.org bugs at >> http://tools.ietf.org/tools/issues >> or send email to webmaster@tools.ietf.org >>=20 >=20 From nobody Mon Jun 24 20:10:28 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72087120161 for ; 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Mon, 24 Jun 2019 23:10:19 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) From: Mark Nottingham In-Reply-To: <9F9AF464-7598-42F2-9EAF-DAE5353C5C24@nostrum.com> Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 13:10:16 +1000 Cc: Henrik Levkowetz , tools-discuss@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <88A9A8C0-2F57-4765-B4CC-CE5864AEE9B1@mnot.net> References: <11E75566-9C0B-4A55-93BF-6D2AF3C013D2@mnot.net> <38e51d14-ff2e-209b-0707-2659e4967a02@nostrum.com> <1F2CA98A-E689-4955-8AE0-BC1F4B9E9F9A@mnot.net> <156f4f16-ecfa-ca46-48c3-63ece3b1d575@levkowetz.com> <9F9AF464-7598-42F2-9EAF-DAE5353C5C24@nostrum.com> To: Robert Sparks X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] postconfirm X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 03:10:27 -0000 Exactly. Thanks, > On 25 Jun 2019, at 12:35 pm, Robert Sparks = wrote: >=20 > I think mark=E2=80=99s point is that the people he was trying to reach = triaged the mail on the subject and never looked at the body (so a body = change would be a no-op).=20 >=20 > As an aside, we have other templates that pull the envelope into the = template. Perhaps this one should go there too? >=20 > Sent from my iPhone >=20 >> On Jun 24, 2019, at 7:28 PM, Henrik Levkowetz = wrote: >>=20 >> Hi Mark, Robert, >>=20 >>> On 2019-06-25 01:52, Mark Nottingham wrote: >>> That would really help. Could we also start the mail with something = like: >>>=20 >>> "Attention: your message has not been posted to the list yet. Please = confirm your posting by..."? >>=20 >> The body is based on a template, so easily changed. Changing the = subject >> line has repercussions on the code, so let's see if a body change = would >> be enough. So, the proposal is to change the body as follows: >>=20 >> Old template text: >>=20 >> Confirmation of list posting -- confirmation ID: $filename >>=20 >> The ietf.org mailing-list server has received a list posting from=20 >> $sender to $recipient with the subject=20 >> '$[msg["subject"]]' >>=20 >> As the sender address isn't subscribed to the list, and has not been >> confirmed earlier, we have to request a confirmation of the address. >> To confirm the address, send a message to $recipient, >> with the same subject line as this message. >>=20 >> (Simply sending a 'reply' to this message should work from most email >> interfaces, since that usually leaves the subject line in the right >> form. The reply's additional "Re:" is ok.) >>=20 >> If you do not wish your posting to the list to go through, simply >> disregard this message. Questions to $[conf.admin_address]. >>=20 >> New template text: >>=20 >> Attention: your message has not been posted to the list yet. >> Please confirm your posting by responding to this message: >>=20 >> The ietf.org mailing-list server has received a list posting from=20 >> $sender to $recipient with the subject=20 >> '$[msg["subject"]]' >>=20 >> As the sender address isn't subscribed to the list, and has not been >> confirmed earlier, we have to request a confirmation of the address. >> To confirm the address, send a message to $recipient, >> with the same subject line as this message. >>=20 >> (Simply sending a 'reply' to this message should work from most email >> interfaces, since that usually leaves the subject line in the right >> form. The reply's additional "Re:" is ok.) >>=20 >> If you do not wish your posting to the list to go through, simply >> disregard this message. Questions to $[conf.admin_address]. >>=20 >> Does that match your proposal? >>=20 >>=20 >> Henrik >>=20 >>=20 >>>=20 >>> Cheers, >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>> On 25 Jun 2019, at 4:23 am, Robert Sparks = wrote: >>>>=20 >>>> Perhaps start the subject with "Action Required:" ? >>>>=20 >>>> RjS >>>>=20 >>>>> On 6/23/19 9:28 PM, Henrik Levkowetz wrote: >>>>> Hi Mark, >>>>>=20 >>>>>> On 2019-06-24 03:05, Mark Nottingham wrote: >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Hello, >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> For the escape-workshop-pc mailing list, we had a number of >>>>>> submissions from non-IETF people get stuck at the confirmation = stage, >>>>>> because people who were not familiar with postman norms didn't >>>>>> realise they had to respond to the confirm message. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> In particular, the Subject of the e-mail is "Confirm: ...", and = the >>>>>> most prominent line is "Confirmation of list posting -- = confirmation >>>>>> ID: ..." -- which can be read to say that THIS e-mail is = confirming >>>>>> that posting has already occurred. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Would it be possible to rewrite the confirmation message to make = it >>>>>> more clear to busy readers that they need to act on the message? >>>>>>=20 >>>>> Certainly. >>>>>=20 >>>>> Do you have a proposal for the changed message? >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> Regards, >>>>>=20 >>>>> Henrik >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> ___________________________________________________________ >>>>> Tools-discuss mailing list >>>>>=20 >>>>> Tools-discuss@ietf.org >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> Please report datatracker.ietf.org and mailarchive.ietf.org >>>>> bugs at=20 >>>>> http://tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb >>>>>=20 >>>>> or send email to=20 >>>>> datatracker-project@ietf.org >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> Please report tools.ietf.org bugs at >>>>>=20 >>>>> http://tools.ietf.org/tools/issues >>>>>=20 >>>>> or send email to=20 >>>>> webmaster@tools.ietf.org >>>=20 >>> -- >>> Mark Nottingham https://www.mnot.net/ >>>=20 >>> ___________________________________________________________ >>> Tools-discuss mailing list >>> Tools-discuss@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss >>>=20 >>> Please report datatracker.ietf.org and mailarchive.ietf.org >>> bugs at http://tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb >>> or send email to datatracker-project@ietf.org >>>=20 >>> Please report tools.ietf.org bugs at >>> http://tools.ietf.org/tools/issues >>> or send email to webmaster@tools.ietf.org >>>=20 >>=20 >=20 -- Mark Nottingham https://www.mnot.net/ From nobody Mon Jun 24 22:24:53 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09E3812022A for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 22:24:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id exd5KT9UKvtP for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 22:24:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zinfandel.tools.ietf.org (zinfandel.tools.ietf.org [IPv6:2001:1890:126c::1:2a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C87F112022B for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 22:24:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from h-202-242.a357.priv.bahnhof.se ([158.174.202.242]:64737 helo=tannat.localdomain) by zinfandel.tools.ietf.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1hfdwk-0001N6-UM; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 22:24:49 -0700 To: Robert Sparks References: <11E75566-9C0B-4A55-93BF-6D2AF3C013D2@mnot.net> <38e51d14-ff2e-209b-0707-2659e4967a02@nostrum.com> <1F2CA98A-E689-4955-8AE0-BC1F4B9E9F9A@mnot.net> <156f4f16-ecfa-ca46-48c3-63ece3b1d575@levkowetz.com> <9F9AF464-7598-42F2-9EAF-DAE5353C5C24@nostrum.com> Cc: Mark Nottingham , tools-discuss@ietf.org From: Henrik Levkowetz Message-ID: <86c5873c-1513-b50e-6e9a-aa81d59d43a6@levkowetz.com> Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 07:24:36 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <9F9AF464-7598-42F2-9EAF-DAE5353C5C24@nostrum.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="iV9NSTGx1jfT0ipiSIOhXuqHnmqUUBiJV" X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 158.174.202.242 X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: tools-discuss@ietf.org, mnot@mnot.net, rjsparks@nostrum.com X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1 (built Mon, 26 Dec 2011 16:24:06 +0000) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on zinfandel.tools.ietf.org) X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] postconfirm X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 05:24:52 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --iV9NSTGx1jfT0ipiSIOhXuqHnmqUUBiJV Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="QPFMWtd4SOtuffA1VcCUdO14j9mU01wUG"; protected-headers="v1" From: Henrik Levkowetz To: Robert Sparks Cc: Mark Nottingham , tools-discuss@ietf.org Message-ID: <86c5873c-1513-b50e-6e9a-aa81d59d43a6@levkowetz.com> Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] postconfirm References: <11E75566-9C0B-4A55-93BF-6D2AF3C013D2@mnot.net> <38e51d14-ff2e-209b-0707-2659e4967a02@nostrum.com> <1F2CA98A-E689-4955-8AE0-BC1F4B9E9F9A@mnot.net> <156f4f16-ecfa-ca46-48c3-63ece3b1d575@levkowetz.com> <9F9AF464-7598-42F2-9EAF-DAE5353C5C24@nostrum.com> In-Reply-To: <9F9AF464-7598-42F2-9EAF-DAE5353C5C24@nostrum.com> --QPFMWtd4SOtuffA1VcCUdO14j9mU01wUG Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2019-06-25 04:35, Robert Sparks wrote: > I think mark=E2=80=99s point is that the people he was trying to reach > triaged the mail on the subject and never looked at the body (so a > body change would be a no-op). That's not how I read Mark's email. > As an aside, we have other templates that pull the envelope into the > template. Perhaps this one should go there too? The problem here is that the confirmation verification code looks at the subject line, by ignoring some parts (like tacked-on Re:) and splits the remainder in group. The Subject template should be close to that code to= avoid getting them out of sync; and, as indicated below, body changes do not require code changes, but Subject changes almost certainly _will_ require code changes. So no, the Subject line should not be part of the body template. Henrik >=20 > Sent from my iPhone >=20 >> On Jun 24, 2019, at 7:28 PM, Henrik Levkowetz w= rote: >>=20 >> Hi Mark, Robert, >>=20 >>> On 2019-06-25 01:52, Mark Nottingham wrote: >>> That would really help. Could we also start the mail with something l= ike: >>>=20 >>> "Attention: your message has not been posted to the list yet. Please = confirm your posting by..."? >>=20 >> The body is based on a template, so easily changed. Changing the subj= ect >> line has repercussions on the code, so let's see if a body change woul= d >> be enough. So, the proposal is to change the body as follows: >>=20 >> Old template text: >>=20 >> Confirmation of list posting -- confirmation ID: $filename >>=20 >> The ietf.org mailing-list server has received a list posting from=20 >> $sender to $recipient with the subject=20 >> '$[msg["subject"]]' >>=20 >> As the sender address isn't subscribed to the list, and has not been >> confirmed earlier, we have to request a confirmation of the address. >> To confirm the address, send a message to $recipient, >> with the same subject line as this message. >>=20 >> (Simply sending a 'reply' to this message should work from most email= >> interfaces, since that usually leaves the subject line in the right >> form. The reply's additional "Re:" is ok.) >>=20 >> If you do not wish your posting to the list to go through, simply >> disregard this message. Questions to $[conf.admin_address]. >>=20 >> New template text: >>=20 >> Attention: your message has not been posted to the list yet. >> Please confirm your posting by responding to this message: >>=20 >> The ietf.org mailing-list server has received a list posting from=20 >> $sender to $recipient with the subject=20 >> '$[msg["subject"]]' >>=20 >> As the sender address isn't subscribed to the list, and has not been >> confirmed earlier, we have to request a confirmation of the address. >> To confirm the address, send a message to $recipient, >> with the same subject line as this message. >>=20 >> (Simply sending a 'reply' to this message should work from most email= >> interfaces, since that usually leaves the subject line in the right >> form. The reply's additional "Re:" is ok.) >>=20 >> If you do not wish your posting to the list to go through, simply >> disregard this message. Questions to $[conf.admin_address]. >>=20 >> Does that match your proposal? >>=20 >>=20 >> Henrik >>=20 >>=20 >>>=20 >>> Cheers, >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>> On 25 Jun 2019, at 4:23 am, Robert Sparks wro= te: >>>>=20 >>>> Perhaps start the subject with "Action Required:" ? >>>>=20 >>>> RjS >>>>=20 >>>>> On 6/23/19 9:28 PM, Henrik Levkowetz wrote: >>>>> Hi Mark, >>>>>=20 >>>>>> On 2019-06-24 03:05, Mark Nottingham wrote: >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Hello, >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> For the escape-workshop-pc mailing list, we had a number of >>>>>> submissions from non-IETF people get stuck at the confirmation sta= ge, >>>>>> because people who were not familiar with postman norms didn't >>>>>> realise they had to respond to the confirm message. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> In particular, the Subject of the e-mail is "Confirm: ...", and th= e >>>>>> most prominent line is "Confirmation of list posting -- confirmati= on >>>>>> ID: ..." -- which can be read to say that THIS e-mail is confirmin= g >>>>>> that posting has already occurred. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Would it be possible to rewrite the confirmation message to make i= t >>>>>> more clear to busy readers that they need to act on the message? >>>>>>=20 >>>>> Certainly. >>>>>=20 >>>>> Do you have a proposal for the changed message? >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> Regards, >>>>>=20 >>>>> Henrik >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> ___________________________________________________________ >>>>> Tools-discuss mailing list >>>>>=20 >>>>> Tools-discuss@ietf.org >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> Please report datatracker.ietf.org and mailarchive.ietf.org >>>>> bugs at=20 >>>>> http://tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb >>>>>=20 >>>>> or send email to=20 >>>>> datatracker-project@ietf.org >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> Please report tools.ietf.org bugs at >>>>>=20 >>>>> http://tools.ietf.org/tools/issues >>>>>=20 >>>>> or send email to=20 >>>>> webmaster@tools.ietf.org >>>=20 >>> -- >>> Mark Nottingham https://www.mnot.net/ >>>=20 >>> ___________________________________________________________ >>> Tools-discuss mailing list >>> Tools-discuss@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss >>>=20 >>> Please report datatracker.ietf.org and mailarchive.ietf.org >>> bugs at http://tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb >>> or send email to datatracker-project@ietf.org >>>=20 >>> Please report tools.ietf.org bugs at >>> http://tools.ietf.org/tools/issues >>> or send email to webmaster@tools.ietf.org >>>=20 >>=20 >=20 >=20 --QPFMWtd4SOtuffA1VcCUdO14j9mU01wUG-- --iV9NSTGx1jfT0ipiSIOhXuqHnmqUUBiJV Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEEifjc5+rnL1MJBcZSTptXS4+7FxoFAl0RsBUACgkQTptXS4+7 FxqtBxAAgavWQZvKEPaOW/Ugy8uoag2reLYvv3Ox1j+lv9dIJvC0ue/jM6/kLxOu HP5iGAR634QlOQW1yRRCrTEOl3vFyYSCpGSZvFZ1SZgJy28cMBSMRgCHDtbkXC7e 1a3NHi5OiecIPffEsF3wJ97wEE44OevLe0amVyN/RSO0uz64aEzVartZHuXUI3F6 Ff/aXPvrcT7zWoPTSeHxUrMa5k577Kg7ZSPc3aEeZYeae6f3g8uPpATVm9DlT1zd Z1IkS6rM984i1bS761yn+nr2yta2EypkIwVrgr9CwykW3ic7J+O2WdKN0Qj6/Rh6 iND46VT+1nXE8k+aUYnFWmJbyqWFKl+eFMRx4LBodTqdl6VY3oAFRfd669GsEnpw hUnGLAvKXG/TJ+g1Md+ZS49ZNjUx4VNYPc5YLywj9O0yxz8cf9rCNBP9YFYFD6sE xLW5axPdA81Zg4Hfm6JhtfcKHYjhwvx27XXG4gUiJv+6nieSskMPH2Nqmr5lxY1j 0pVhupG1O7vIP+MTYbGO1rYl3HMe4Mvh0/za66H3xKz/enItzThRRomerT3luUMK Tj/nCoJ1+nKhAAASQ4Tui6ZLqpTNlHhQaFwN1MpDddzIIf7zF/7Ir6Vw8AdI/gbk IyfyJ7YmoJGOz6aX+sPP2+fHUJcVEx7mZ9DFuNGrLMSOPseCULY= =gDMB -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --iV9NSTGx1jfT0ipiSIOhXuqHnmqUUBiJV-- From nobody Mon Jun 24 22:30:44 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5372912022B for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 22:30:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nE7MeJcr8vLn for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 22:30:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zinfandel.tools.ietf.org (zinfandel.tools.ietf.org [IPv6:2001:1890:126c::1:2a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6D16912022D for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 22:30:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from h-202-242.a357.priv.bahnhof.se ([158.174.202.242]:64851 helo=tannat.localdomain) by zinfandel.tools.ietf.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1hfe2S-0001J4-Dt; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 22:30:41 -0700 To: Mark Nottingham , Robert Sparks References: <11E75566-9C0B-4A55-93BF-6D2AF3C013D2@mnot.net> <38e51d14-ff2e-209b-0707-2659e4967a02@nostrum.com> <1F2CA98A-E689-4955-8AE0-BC1F4B9E9F9A@mnot.net> <156f4f16-ecfa-ca46-48c3-63ece3b1d575@levkowetz.com> <9F9AF464-7598-42F2-9EAF-DAE5353C5C24@nostrum.com> <88A9A8C0-2F57-4765-B4CC-CE5864AEE9B1@mnot.net> Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org From: Henrik Levkowetz Message-ID: <350cd758-fab6-83a1-d362-0158fbf3921c@levkowetz.com> Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 07:30:32 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <88A9A8C0-2F57-4765-B4CC-CE5864AEE9B1@mnot.net> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="hQccF3F5elFo4iPS5fLNKa53wINDtpU0s" X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 158.174.202.242 X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: tools-discuss@ietf.org, rjsparks@nostrum.com, mnot@mnot.net X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1 (built Mon, 26 Dec 2011 16:24:06 +0000) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on zinfandel.tools.ietf.org) X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] postconfirm X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 05:30:43 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --hQccF3F5elFo4iPS5fLNKa53wINDtpU0s Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="GropvKWRj3Qa5NO9LQQkGhOpAeDMaKejE"; protected-headers="v1" From: Henrik Levkowetz To: Mark Nottingham , Robert Sparks Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org Message-ID: <350cd758-fab6-83a1-d362-0158fbf3921c@levkowetz.com> Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] postconfirm References: <11E75566-9C0B-4A55-93BF-6D2AF3C013D2@mnot.net> <38e51d14-ff2e-209b-0707-2659e4967a02@nostrum.com> <1F2CA98A-E689-4955-8AE0-BC1F4B9E9F9A@mnot.net> <156f4f16-ecfa-ca46-48c3-63ece3b1d575@levkowetz.com> <9F9AF464-7598-42F2-9EAF-DAE5353C5C24@nostrum.com> <88A9A8C0-2F57-4765-B4CC-CE5864AEE9B1@mnot.net> In-Reply-To: <88A9A8C0-2F57-4765-B4CC-CE5864AEE9B1@mnot.net> --GropvKWRj3Qa5NO9LQQkGhOpAeDMaKejE Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2019-06-25 05:10, Mark Nottingham wrote: > Exactly. Ok, so if the body was never read, that change is immaterial? For the Subject change, is this the proposal? Old subject line text: Confirm: {recipient}:{filename}:{hash} New subject line text: Action Required: Confirm: {recipient}:{filename}:{hash} Henrik > Thanks, >=20 >=20 >> On 25 Jun 2019, at 12:35 pm, Robert Sparks >> wrote: >>=20 >> I think mark=E2=80=99s point is that the people he was trying to reach= >> triaged the mail on the subject and never looked at the body (so a >> body change would be a no-op). >>=20 >> As an aside, we have other templates that pull the envelope into >> the template. Perhaps this one should go there too? >>=20 >> Sent from my iPhone >>=20 >>> On Jun 24, 2019, at 7:28 PM, Henrik Levkowetz = wrote: >>>=20 >>> Hi Mark, Robert, >>>=20 >>>> On 2019-06-25 01:52, Mark Nottingham wrote: >>>> That would really help. Could we also start the mail with something = like: >>>>=20 >>>> "Attention: your message has not been posted to the list yet. Please= confirm your posting by..."? >>>=20 >>> The body is based on a template, so easily changed. Changing the sub= ject >>> line has repercussions on the code, so let's see if a body change wou= ld >>> be enough. So, the proposal is to change the body as follows: >>>=20 >>> Old template text: >>>=20 >>> Confirmation of list posting -- confirmation ID: $filename >>>=20 >>> The ietf.org mailing-list server has received a list posting from=20 >>> $sender to $recipient with the subject=20 >>> '$[msg["subject"]]' >>>=20 >>> As the sender address isn't subscribed to the list, and has not been >>> confirmed earlier, we have to request a confirmation of the address. >>> To confirm the address, send a message to $recipient, >>> with the same subject line as this message. >>>=20 >>> (Simply sending a 'reply' to this message should work from most email= >>> interfaces, since that usually leaves the subject line in the right >>> form. The reply's additional "Re:" is ok.) >>>=20 >>> If you do not wish your posting to the list to go through, simply >>> disregard this message. Questions to $[conf.admin_address]. >>>=20 >>> New template text: >>>=20 >>> Attention: your message has not been posted to the list yet. >>> Please confirm your posting by responding to this message: >>>=20 >>> The ietf.org mailing-list server has received a list posting from=20 >>> $sender to $recipient with the subject=20 >>> '$[msg["subject"]]' >>>=20 >>> As the sender address isn't subscribed to the list, and has not been >>> confirmed earlier, we have to request a confirmation of the address. >>> To confirm the address, send a message to $recipient, >>> with the same subject line as this message. >>>=20 >>> (Simply sending a 'reply' to this message should work from most email= >>> interfaces, since that usually leaves the subject line in the right >>> form. The reply's additional "Re:" is ok.) >>>=20 >>> If you do not wish your posting to the list to go through, simply >>> disregard this message. Questions to $[conf.admin_address]. >>>=20 >>> Does that match your proposal? >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Henrik >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> Cheers, >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>> On 25 Jun 2019, at 4:23 am, Robert Sparks wr= ote: >>>>>=20 >>>>> Perhaps start the subject with "Action Required:" ? >>>>>=20 >>>>> RjS >>>>>=20 >>>>>> On 6/23/19 9:28 PM, Henrik Levkowetz wrote: >>>>>> Hi Mark, >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> On 2019-06-24 03:05, Mark Nottingham wrote: >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> Hello, >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> For the escape-workshop-pc mailing list, we had a number of >>>>>>> submissions from non-IETF people get stuck at the confirmation st= age, >>>>>>> because people who were not familiar with postman norms didn't >>>>>>> realise they had to respond to the confirm message. >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> In particular, the Subject of the e-mail is "Confirm: ...", and t= he >>>>>>> most prominent line is "Confirmation of list posting -- confirmat= ion >>>>>>> ID: ..." -- which can be read to say that THIS e-mail is confirmi= ng >>>>>>> that posting has already occurred. >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> Would it be possible to rewrite the confirmation message to make = it >>>>>>> more clear to busy readers that they need to act on the message? >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Certainly. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Do you have a proposal for the changed message? >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Henrik >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> ___________________________________________________________ >>>>>> Tools-discuss mailing list >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Tools-discuss@ietf.org >>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Please report datatracker.ietf.org and mailarchive.ietf.org >>>>>> bugs at=20 >>>>>> http://tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> or send email to=20 >>>>>> datatracker-project@ietf.org >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Please report tools.ietf.org bugs at >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> http://tools.ietf.org/tools/issues >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> or send email to=20 >>>>>> webmaster@tools.ietf.org >>>>=20 >>>> -- >>>> Mark Nottingham https://www.mnot.net/ >>>>=20 >>>> ___________________________________________________________ >>>> Tools-discuss mailing list >>>> Tools-discuss@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss >>>>=20 >>>> Please report datatracker.ietf.org and mailarchive.ietf.org >>>> bugs at http://tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb >>>> or send email to datatracker-project@ietf.org >>>>=20 >>>> Please report tools.ietf.org bugs at >>>> http://tools.ietf.org/tools/issues >>>> or send email to webmaster@tools.ietf.org >>>>=20 >>>=20 >>=20 >=20 > -- > Mark Nottingham https://www.mnot.net/ >=20 >=20 --GropvKWRj3Qa5NO9LQQkGhOpAeDMaKejE-- --hQccF3F5elFo4iPS5fLNKa53wINDtpU0s Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEEifjc5+rnL1MJBcZSTptXS4+7FxoFAl0RsXgACgkQTptXS4+7 FxptuA//TYLOSpRgfPrZBnH/A82Zr6Dq0DkPXGAic9CVfWvZrw3NB6jOrguLcGsL OmU6oNskAGmRG6TRXNamJ9FUNK4xxLQ4LXVs9Xod8jUJWcjsnzXUe8571pFfUteT KQekCsIYaeiS7gv9jD8NSS/g+xhR9vKB6DWmrIl0M2CpJoQEfJfT73+rBEzM6xpH +K10vhdVfgQ7Wxv7HFR8nG0B6vBjGXgORAJz0k+ODSn0SGwu660EmHJ1dwJ3Nc0t QiWOXGms6AstHuLL9sIo0SHL04sWhPfn6D/JDs3OWw6L0zN8S+gLcailvS9ffWfX EkXxd2y9e63Dubw/mwVt58tLrVr7GV+VR15+qKx5lcO6upn/rSvnTC7h+A5JgsOx LGalQr2ElAwjBo8D4St1NvaoWIj+rb8F9p3fOaymcvfjFGZeFiA7OziuCK1LSQGP OAxt2Vdklao0WaS/ZazXCAa6zrh8ZGtE/tTTMW5EX+ecdkUQ7dAaIErP/h73Fb8b PNNPYb0Or19NZ/AlRGYf8Ajt+4g/KrvZdKquPxVcsskhFqPrBvbKZcBsZ6t8XSB1 8AjU3AMlfCxVll/yasXXFZBicbjI7M33Z2nw8Gxt8BGf1X+xMdt9Ia7beUdwjsF9 m7Z9I3OZRy9aPvqcS02UzmUm07N23DBRpBYVEoCQcpdmk9d63xU= =jVVr -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --hQccF3F5elFo4iPS5fLNKa53wINDtpU0s-- From nobody Tue Jun 25 03:26:05 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6457912027B for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 03:26:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.197 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.197 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Q_V84eJ26199 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 03:26:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 940071200DE for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 03:26:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.217.110] (p54A6CA4C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.166.202.76]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 45Y2PN473ZzymW; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 12:26:00 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <350cd758-fab6-83a1-d362-0158fbf3921c@levkowetz.com> Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 12:25:59 +0200 Cc: Mark Nottingham , Robert Sparks , tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 583151158.1141779-aa2a1ac07b8aa3c2f7b1d1cc619ed137 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <1D19F482-1CAF-442C-8975-3BD05136F3F4@tzi.org> References: <11E75566-9C0B-4A55-93BF-6D2AF3C013D2@mnot.net> <38e51d14-ff2e-209b-0707-2659e4967a02@nostrum.com> <1F2CA98A-E689-4955-8AE0-BC1F4B9E9F9A@mnot.net> <156f4f16-ecfa-ca46-48c3-63ece3b1d575@levkowetz.com> <9F9AF464-7598-42F2-9EAF-DAE5353C5C24@nostrum.com> <88A9A8C0-2F57-4765-B4CC-CE5864AEE9B1@mnot.net> <350cd758-fab6-83a1-d362-0158fbf3921c@levkowetz.com> To: Henrik Levkowetz X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] postconfirm X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 10:26:04 -0000 On Jun 25, 2019, at 07:30, Henrik Levkowetz = wrote: >=20 > Ok, so if the body was never read, that change is immaterial? I wouldn=E2=80=99t say that =E2=80=94 you don=E2=80=99t want to lose the = first half of the people in the Subject line and then the second half = when they do read the body, so both need to convey the =E2=80=9Caction = required=E2=80=9D message. Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Tue Jun 25 03:52:13 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F278120033 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 03:52:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rqCWSVwPIDKb for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 03:52:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zinfandel.tools.ietf.org (zinfandel.tools.ietf.org [IPv6:2001:1890:126c::1:2a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CFEE51200FA for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 03:52:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from h-202-242.a357.priv.bahnhof.se ([158.174.202.242]:54023 helo=tannat.localdomain) by zinfandel.tools.ietf.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1hfj3V-00068t-It; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 03:52:07 -0700 To: Carsten Bormann References: <11E75566-9C0B-4A55-93BF-6D2AF3C013D2@mnot.net> <38e51d14-ff2e-209b-0707-2659e4967a02@nostrum.com> <1F2CA98A-E689-4955-8AE0-BC1F4B9E9F9A@mnot.net> <156f4f16-ecfa-ca46-48c3-63ece3b1d575@levkowetz.com> <9F9AF464-7598-42F2-9EAF-DAE5353C5C24@nostrum.com> <88A9A8C0-2F57-4765-B4CC-CE5864AEE9B1@mnot.net> <350cd758-fab6-83a1-d362-0158fbf3921c@levkowetz.com> <1D19F482-1CAF-442C-8975-3BD05136F3F4@tzi.org> Cc: Mark Nottingham , tools-discuss@ietf.org, Robert Sparks From: Henrik Levkowetz Message-ID: <7533ac34-0716-c202-a034-e470599f8c42@levkowetz.com> Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 12:51:57 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <1D19F482-1CAF-442C-8975-3BD05136F3F4@tzi.org> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="20B6FqPrun7XLERJgjDD4DDa3rwOJ9Cor" X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 158.174.202.242 X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rjsparks@nostrum.com, tools-discuss@ietf.org, mnot@mnot.net, cabo@tzi.org X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1 (built Mon, 26 Dec 2011 16:24:06 +0000) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on zinfandel.tools.ietf.org) X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] postconfirm X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 10:52:11 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --20B6FqPrun7XLERJgjDD4DDa3rwOJ9Cor Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Vh2uDlAjghclovoNmT0M2T4L2IxibN9NP"; protected-headers="v1" From: Henrik Levkowetz To: Carsten Bormann Cc: Mark Nottingham , tools-discuss@ietf.org, Robert Sparks Message-ID: <7533ac34-0716-c202-a034-e470599f8c42@levkowetz.com> Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] postconfirm References: <11E75566-9C0B-4A55-93BF-6D2AF3C013D2@mnot.net> <38e51d14-ff2e-209b-0707-2659e4967a02@nostrum.com> <1F2CA98A-E689-4955-8AE0-BC1F4B9E9F9A@mnot.net> <156f4f16-ecfa-ca46-48c3-63ece3b1d575@levkowetz.com> <9F9AF464-7598-42F2-9EAF-DAE5353C5C24@nostrum.com> <88A9A8C0-2F57-4765-B4CC-CE5864AEE9B1@mnot.net> <350cd758-fab6-83a1-d362-0158fbf3921c@levkowetz.com> <1D19F482-1CAF-442C-8975-3BD05136F3F4@tzi.org> In-Reply-To: <1D19F482-1CAF-442C-8975-3BD05136F3F4@tzi.org> --Vh2uDlAjghclovoNmT0M2T4L2IxibN9NP Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Carsten, On 2019-06-25 12:25, Carsten Bormann wrote: > On Jun 25, 2019, at 07:30, Henrik Levkowetz wrot= e: >>=20 >> Ok, so if the body was never read, that change is immaterial? >=20 > I wouldn=E2=80=99t say that =E2=80=94 you don=E2=80=99t want to lose th= e first half of the people in the Subject line and then the second half w= hen they do read the body, so both need to convey the =E2=80=9Caction req= uired=E2=80=9D message. I would not say that either, but with Mark saying "Exactly" to Robert's statement that a body change would be a no-op, I'd like to be perfectly clear on what changes are actually desired, before I go touching the email pipeline. Mark, could you please accept or modify the proposed changes to subject line and body? You're the only one who have had direct contact with the people who experienced an issue, so you have more information than the rest of us about what the actual perception was. Henrik --Vh2uDlAjghclovoNmT0M2T4L2IxibN9NP-- --20B6FqPrun7XLERJgjDD4DDa3rwOJ9Cor Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEEifjc5+rnL1MJBcZSTptXS4+7FxoFAl0R/M0ACgkQTptXS4+7 FxrQRhAAvTCs7HxFB/Aj+6A1w8e8F5gzxzJ0f0NuZPVSANCS6SCv4E0tye/C4g7w GnsGXzss/xYwpPN4gk5HP0CXNrv1SmXvus3zjZfYlsHWWOUPLqEFrGavECem4nw7 H8nWPUXVqwQOPDZrLjJIBm5Ut2Aju4wBaaeIP5AoCcTBlfDfy9+0sD85WDTewaai j5QqMuRyn8rqn3Nji05ZM4QE9hPwdek6j2yh7TK1MMy6cNPtr7KLHLzTn9Q2na4d e3dvmnP4EpYdI0T5ep15TXyK18nvd3MEr3nPzDJiufHki/YtGpv3lrIjUktEd7R6 GEzDJwoKdtZjX3oE4lAGQsnIuHK6+FG3cmTLpgaRj/sWSeLejUspQgWHAW5xMKoa umnXi5wuAedrXg0mA7GrdfoZAknnZklatoSdOHgg59ysN23x2CN6338UYWtI6fux ZVrj7Lf4q++KtqGGivL86TdPBuaxuli1I6KZLzCSzg4TUKPwkjvioyOAcCcHsrT8 qp41dAU0BOkolruBAcwR7B2qlx5/6z6h9ZIeLu/TE4qoJd3ufUciRPcg9XRUdoKT BPMNJoq9qIlj0y1Ao5iLTmlsKFvSqLkzy10vW5N6KhzL+H2lDG/a/3gxyFCW6G+I k6y83517NuDEiAUD7L+g26JKWWJO9cg8HIfrCvjY88PprGAErC8= =jXv+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --20B6FqPrun7XLERJgjDD4DDa3rwOJ9Cor-- From nobody Tue Jun 25 06:44:20 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BC9712008D for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 06:44:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.997 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.997 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Txs6NyUBaR9o for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 06:44:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qk1-x72c.google.com (mail-qk1-x72c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::72c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 37A4112006A for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 06:44:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qk1-x72c.google.com with SMTP id d15so12590994qkl.4 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 06:44:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=TnFWPaGGqy49VCES2hWfqm7rS6BHLEQ55CXhbp0qnjA=; b=lyuZrhGPxKrra6ko2m5gKEVLdqfk870gpozITk2s0AGZhL0klUGZTPH/BvYjfJTh9t eljGv/1mU5gh+2LycEKVq7RT9uOBY0ieWqfmxLwrhpC8KLppTTWBazuYiQiMbrjpfY/5 s9lyowXQFaPvJzQWsy3XSHOjpOhbPq1plz4UrDVSCHMCDmjIwYHsvNov2zJ+Eg3MSUGP YLC/IDd8LQxeF5L78Vr85ABvRlGsE9ennYEKwTEltMcvlur4q4WNW81AzRPTLZm/uaQ5 8qMr4SRj1mCi7/OrSvEZsuajBmK+tDkZFr6qvpxFXgLfpcge/WMq4w95GgFPjXkSlv/e pBzQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=TnFWPaGGqy49VCES2hWfqm7rS6BHLEQ55CXhbp0qnjA=; b=m8HoDOFBveStwzY+suS9PZjB8qJsKnIn/lrNtpI1My0gsqaodJRgAq8cIJnBJAyUcI ClZqhJYUvWPrQ4joDnTQsn0SDvVf2pq/Lo2IIfuBjdoqvui5l296gHiLShMOhE/y8Ap7 8pqG1KlJd45Srx6Aw0myIQMvHEf9StcMv4MOHdpbl8yXHchGfsYW1Nygr2/SCy1LczLK 4bJKI17liMLPTNuNnpWROZwa9W+sVuTNZ7BOrpkKWvaRxsG9el8JfKtWdlcxRi7JeP9I npIXE6mihxzghJscox94Am/tkg5L7YEP+yW7bIuLgZH79wJEvODQ1THCDIDld3vtp40T N8yQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUIUhMEWrGZ/nf882hR9ztXZnasDsvcGhm4/viRgGtk3iHZakyS hW4EIhTPc2/SROX0tdBK92hxYAiIdYqqxSRpcio4OHYn X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqz8uE3UobBQrrZwHEyKh9QAtzw72+ClF9zeOUSIr8gaVi+o85YoLEdZfnX3jN3AGcZ5JJSRZxPFv/LBFJEcvSw= X-Received: by 2002:ae9:f443:: with SMTP id z3mr57955747qkl.203.1561470255918; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 06:44:15 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <11E75566-9C0B-4A55-93BF-6D2AF3C013D2@mnot.net> In-Reply-To: <11E75566-9C0B-4A55-93BF-6D2AF3C013D2@mnot.net> From: Richard Barnes Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 09:43:46 -0400 Message-ID: To: Tools Team Discussion Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000ee738e058c261fde" Archived-At: Subject: [Tools-discuss] Confirm on I-D submission (was Re: postconfirm) X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 13:44:20 -0000 --000000000000ee738e058c261fde Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" This reminded me of a complaint I've had for a while: When I use the Datatracker to submit an I-D, I have to go through the "open email, click a link" dance, click a button" dance even though I am logged in to the Datatracker. Is it not possible to just match the logged-in user ID with the author email addresses and proceed directly to posting? --Richard On Sun, Jun 23, 2019 at 9:05 PM Mark Nottingham wrote: > Hello, > > For the escape-workshop-pc mailing list, we had a number of submissions > from non-IETF people get stuck at the confirmation stage, because people > who were not familiar with postman norms didn't realise they had to respond > to the confirm message. > > In particular, the Subject of the e-mail is "Confirm: ...", and the most > prominent line is "Confirmation of list posting -- confirmation ID: ..." -- > which can be read to say that THIS e-mail is confirming that posting has > already occurred. > > Would it be possible to rewrite the confirmation message to make it more > clear to busy readers that they need to act on the message? > > Cheers, > > -- > Mark Nottingham https://www.mnot.net/ > > ___________________________________________________________ > Tools-discuss mailing list > Tools-discuss@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss > > Please report datatracker.ietf.org and mailarchive.ietf.org > bugs at http://tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb > or send email to datatracker-project@ietf.org > > Please report tools.ietf.org bugs at > http://tools.ietf.org/tools/issues > or send email to webmaster@tools.ietf.org > --000000000000ee738e058c261fde Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
This reminded me of a complaint I've had for a wh= ile:

When I use the Datatracker to submit an I-D, = I have to go through the "open email, click a link" dance, click = a button" dance even though I am logged in to the Datatracker.=C2=A0 I= s it not possible to just match the logged-in user ID with the author email= addresses and proceed directly to posting?

--Rich= ard


On Sun, Jun 23, 2019 at 9:05 PM Mark Nottingham <mnot@mnot.net> wrote:
Hello,

For the escape-workshop-pc mailing list, we had a number of submissions fro= m non-IETF people get stuck at the confirmation stage, because people who w= ere not familiar with postman norms didn't realise they had to respond = to the confirm message.

In particular, the Subject of the e-mail is "Confirm: ...", and t= he most prominent line is "Confirmation of list posting -- confirmatio= n ID: ..." -- which can be read to say that THIS e-mail is confirming = that posting has already occurred.

Would it be possible to rewrite the confirmation message to make it more cl= ear to busy readers that they need to act on the message?

Cheers,

--
Mark Nottingham=C2=A0 =C2=A0https://www.mnot.net/

___________________________________________________________
Tools-discuss mailing list
Tools-discuss@i= etf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discu= ss

Please report datatracker.ietf.org and mailarchive.ietf.org
bugs at http://tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb
or send email to datatracker-project@ietf.org

Please report tools.ietf.org bugs at
http://tools.ietf.org/tools/issues
or send email to webmaster@tools.ietf.org
--000000000000ee738e058c261fde-- From nobody Tue Jun 25 06:48:04 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E5F81200D8 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 06:48:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id msVaj-FGvsnt for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 06:48:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zinfandel.tools.ietf.org (zinfandel.tools.ietf.org [IPv6:2001:1890:126c::1:2a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1D09912003F for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 06:48:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from h-202-242.a357.priv.bahnhof.se ([158.174.202.242]:57741 helo=tannat.localdomain) by zinfandel.tools.ietf.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1hflnk-0001eR-2s; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 06:48:00 -0700 To: Richard Barnes , Tools Team Discussion References: <11E75566-9C0B-4A55-93BF-6D2AF3C013D2@mnot.net> From: Henrik Levkowetz Message-ID: <75ea49ba-e910-3dc0-9f64-71953b6f7a5c@levkowetz.com> Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 15:47:51 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="kNfMWrJPSi9dTvJswvaEJlmUpE0Ilu0QH" X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 158.174.202.242 X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: tools-discuss@ietf.org, richard.barnes@gmail.com X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1 (built Mon, 26 Dec 2011 16:24:06 +0000) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on zinfandel.tools.ietf.org) X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Confirm on I-D submission (was Re: postconfirm) X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 13:48:03 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --kNfMWrJPSi9dTvJswvaEJlmUpE0Ilu0QH Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="u0LVXs3h3XRwPWSGgjkDktIvg3htwiBvj"; protected-headers="v1" From: Henrik Levkowetz To: Richard Barnes , Tools Team Discussion Message-ID: <75ea49ba-e910-3dc0-9f64-71953b6f7a5c@levkowetz.com> Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Confirm on I-D submission (was Re: postconfirm) References: <11E75566-9C0B-4A55-93BF-6D2AF3C013D2@mnot.net> In-Reply-To: --u0LVXs3h3XRwPWSGgjkDktIvg3htwiBvj Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Richard, On 2019-06-25 15:43, Richard Barnes wrote: > This reminded me of a complaint I've had for a while: >=20 > When I use the Datatracker to submit an I-D, I have to go through the "= open > email, click a link" dance, click a button" dance even though I am logg= ed > in to the Datatracker. Is it not possible to just match the logged-in = user > ID with the author email addresses and proceed directly to posting? Yes. This is something we want to do, but it hasn't reached the top of the priority list yet. Best regards, Henrik >=20 > --Richard >=20 >=20 > On Sun, Jun 23, 2019 at 9:05 PM Mark Nottingham wrote: >=20 >> Hello, >> >> For the escape-workshop-pc mailing list, we had a number of submission= s >> from non-IETF people get stuck at the confirmation stage, because peop= le >> who were not familiar with postman norms didn't realise they had to re= spond >> to the confirm message. >> >> In particular, the Subject of the e-mail is "Confirm: ...", and the mo= st >> prominent line is "Confirmation of list posting -- confirmation ID: ..= =2E" -- >> which can be read to say that THIS e-mail is confirming that posting h= as >> already occurred. >> >> Would it be possible to rewrite the confirmation message to make it mo= re >> clear to busy readers that they need to act on the message? >> >> Cheers, >> >> -- >> Mark Nottingham https://www.mnot.net/ >> >> ___________________________________________________________ >> Tools-discuss mailing list >> Tools-discuss@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss >> >> Please report datatracker.ietf.org and mailarchive.ietf.org >> bugs at http://tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb >> or send email to datatracker-project@ietf.org >> >> Please report tools.ietf.org bugs at >> http://tools.ietf.org/tools/issues >> or send email to webmaster@tools.ietf.org >> >=20 >=20 >=20 > ___________________________________________________________ > Tools-discuss mailing list > Tools-discuss@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss >=20 > Please report datatracker.ietf.org and mailarchive.ietf.org > bugs at http://tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb > or send email to datatracker-project@ietf.org >=20 > Please report tools.ietf.org bugs at > http://tools.ietf.org/tools/issues > or send email to webmaster@tools.ietf.org >=20 --u0LVXs3h3XRwPWSGgjkDktIvg3htwiBvj-- --kNfMWrJPSi9dTvJswvaEJlmUpE0Ilu0QH Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEEifjc5+rnL1MJBcZSTptXS4+7FxoFAl0SJggACgkQTptXS4+7 FxqQohAAiLvTZ1xbFCGuPoBWuKUq4y72t755VA5dXxmeH3kFSBikfsMHDVMGWBam SQSp77tChQaNctxa2IELkR/LcIg/HYGPVLutfVkFmmzXVY/pLgc3N9sixt0ZLNDi 0tat86iYlsSqN/n/Aaeo/iuT3JzpeVClrzPE941K4cuGTy0djoR5djCN8fOS7+1t i4hxj7Y7QSzlXcAr0hO1fltGUT6/k4XKx+TQ2vOSjn8MV6DFPRIhv6yVQWejcBeh grcqul2LEvuF2HPecILTbdKF++FxEwEppAlFmAjdAFtO8IGOtnIDID+9IrilsE6Y lMi/ZtXYNPQekZBKmLX8k4mB04zLuvDt/uKXZRlsmDDCDYhyxClSuZRTqk+q7tXG ugp8y/sX/NjnVUt/47j8HiLbBlAPtgkmoVXeE2aHx+evFmJ3/N0PkVetTj31sEhv Tc1Vsl8nJNspc+8cVyIihI/Np/wkVB4E6M3AzKiRZ9fDsOhWJrrehnh3UbkaUT8E gI7IOxFmlqQAjpnoYiIdthGW7KTsx+5hzTQXTh+ghKhoFmNmDhstWD/fmW2Aw/pa lH8hFYVPj2tp9gY5k5iyCWwI5fMtHzS0RvGWpGVTt4r2WLQewsXBccZr3rEfYKLP Oa5oMCyGg/i/zZVCBuDeVLQAkTXZU0bVeJQlWefSwIWlHP3hjYI= =P3Oy -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --kNfMWrJPSi9dTvJswvaEJlmUpE0Ilu0QH-- From nobody Tue Jun 25 07:14:48 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4A091202DC for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 07:14:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IGBDYqc3lPvy for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 07:14:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.smeinc.net (mail.smeinc.net [209.135.209.11]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6F8AA120338 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 07:14:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.smeinc.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 794B7300AFB for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 09:55:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mail.smeinc.net Received: from mail.smeinc.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.smeinc.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id c_sMON1tJUqJ for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 09:55:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a860b60074bd.fios-router.home (unknown [138.88.156.37]) by mail.smeinc.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0661B3000D7; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 09:55:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Russ Housley Message-Id: <38887F94-0784-4A48-9CAA-F279D28AD922@vigilsec.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_41FE494E-96AD-4651-B348-038E7FCC1D97"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 10:14:39 -0400 In-Reply-To: <75ea49ba-e910-3dc0-9f64-71953b6f7a5c@levkowetz.com> Cc: Richard Barnes , Tools Team Discussion To: Henrik Levkowetz References: <11E75566-9C0B-4A55-93BF-6D2AF3C013D2@mnot.net> <75ea49ba-e910-3dc0-9f64-71953b6f7a5c@levkowetz.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Confirm on I-D submission (was Re: postconfirm) X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 14:14:47 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_41FE494E-96AD-4651-B348-038E7FCC1D97 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > On 2019-06-25 15:43, Richard Barnes wrote: >> This reminded me of a complaint I've had for a while: >>=20 >> When I use the Datatracker to submit an I-D, I have to go through the = "open >> email, click a link" dance, click a button" dance even though I am = logged >> in to the Datatracker. Is it not possible to just match the = logged-in user >> ID with the author email addresses and proceed directly to posting? >=20 > Yes. This is something we want to do, but it hasn't reached the top = of > the priority list yet. Yes, indeed. Remember that the I-D submission was added to the = Datatracker long before end-user accounts. At the time it was added, = only the Secretariat and the Area Directors had accounts. Russ --Apple-Mail=_41FE494E-96AD-4651-B348-038E7FCC1D97 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org iF0EARECAB0WIQRJuTEKFXbtfFQz5huK5O7Q9ZwRywUCXRIsTwAKCRCK5O7Q9ZwR y/8OAJ0aFhpZ2uoNShfFfOJGVVk0ecDeZwCeLMsnoOoeR1X61q1wYz/re1LsuhY= =f/ZU -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_41FE494E-96AD-4651-B348-038E7FCC1D97-- From nobody Tue Jun 25 13:28:49 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 553521200D8 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 13:28:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9Ae-9puknyIe for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 13:28:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pg1-x52a.google.com (mail-pg1-x52a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::52a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CEC3D12003F for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 13:28:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pg1-x52a.google.com with SMTP id y8so8761pgl.4 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 13:28:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=H5Lv6b0+UI4kp8i9t2E2qgsReInCK/mCLtj1WcU/qOA=; b=HS285v8A8kaC9vGY7d4yJQIbZF0JE3MyZetYO5Js4xl/SOY9uhsI9xEh6uYXpQe/Vb mvf6na/HzFWvM5B3RrQNmKAB2oa0mc1iD/rpGkV9m4LKx+zHad+xji18QxkkgC4BEiVs aOueTp78mnKCcpTedd/kH+a3sQPCWDgIIDexm+FM+wMlY9T4VcS6Yphrk/lobqPgg32S SnfmegQxox+G1XDU3LKsRVeOEhKAX7QEGb/rzFQCinhusCPu3U6nAv4gpXel2SfcjN8M uV7cH4z9NgPV8/l9DZLSzlgKoSZ12CFTwGAQbAwm1rxWAIvpiL2CABrjNRH4HXSfVb2G Ifyw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=H5Lv6b0+UI4kp8i9t2E2qgsReInCK/mCLtj1WcU/qOA=; b=KJcGugYFTz2YmIAh0hrIT0WQBFuIBlJuclanyy7ZX7O9QhhUJ9Pf/Z9ioZmjZBEZHO kodTd1jnTeKhx2FkaM/wohQ2By5a/7dofoKrFfHFnxPK7H3T0Km+bu+esS/Cv6d3ejU9 NxfPNNOHqtz9X5dlgF9D0I1UzaP/SpaxtKBAVLz2ThoWpYNs3myf+zkKi583kLk17wZD sIJyQSHR5KeOWTtwMaNSNQOwtTmfNjUdagi6xL4R695l1qwtpHvV5FcOJEK51IQ70POO USMM1PIr+qoQKT481py7n6Ib6KDu+ZYDgG+PuYyhJBCP1zjxHq+vGpav6v5V7cfgAXhE fVcA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWkx6Fc0jNGv0MCweUXpZK5qL6cZDgSvYqyeR0njPvuzWW+fZVq DHMr3SrUI59G/OeuaM7SUvw9KIEq X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzsuTvuz1bCVT3oQnDwo9yCQb6dZj9o4ZdGh/dz8NlEbY3yJuiWqe2qEY+h1AaKFOE9sdYw1A== X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:3310:: with SMTP id m16mr776548pjb.7.1561494524542; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 13:28:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.178.30] (32.23.255.123.dynamic.snap.net.nz. [123.255.23.32]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id w7sm14242431pfb.117.2019.06.25.13.28.42 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 25 Jun 2019 13:28:43 -0700 (PDT) To: tools-discuss@ietf.org References: <11E75566-9C0B-4A55-93BF-6D2AF3C013D2@mnot.net> <75ea49ba-e910-3dc0-9f64-71953b6f7a5c@levkowetz.com> <38887F94-0784-4A48-9CAA-F279D28AD922@vigilsec.com> From: Brian E Carpenter Message-ID: <4ae44fe8-8613-4490-90c7-791f46cfd750@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2019 08:28:41 +1200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.7.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <38887F94-0784-4A48-9CAA-F279D28AD922@vigilsec.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Confirm on I-D submission (was Re: postconfirm) X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 20:28:47 -0000 On 26-Jun-19 02:14, Russ Housley wrote: > >> On 2019-06-25 15:43, Richard Barnes wrote: >>> This reminded me of a complaint I've had for a while: >>> >>> When I use the Datatracker to submit an I-D, I have to go through the "open >>> email, click a link" dance, click a button" dance even though I am logged >>> in to the Datatracker. Is it not possible to just match the logged-in user >>> ID with the author email addresses and proceed directly to posting? >> >> Yes. This is something we want to do, but it hasn't reached the top of >> the priority list yet. > > Yes, indeed. Remember that the I-D submission was added to the Datatracker long before end-user accounts. At the time it was added, only the Secretariat and the Area Directors had accounts. However, the current system has the virtue of allowing a team of authors to include people who are not registered tracker users. Also it prevents somebody usurping authorship of a draft, because only *previous* authors can approve a posting. Both of those properties need to be kept. (I'd also say that among the annoyances in my life, having to wait for the confirmation email when posting an I-D is truly very minor.) Brian From nobody Wed Jun 26 06:02:02 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA760120470 for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 06:02:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 231FdI5V_MvG for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 06:02:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zinfandel.tools.ietf.org (zinfandel.tools.ietf.org [IPv6:2001:1890:126c::1:2a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 368F01201B7 for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 06:02:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from h-202-242.a357.priv.bahnhof.se ([158.174.202.242]:55779 helo=tannat.localdomain) by zinfandel.tools.ietf.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1hg7Yk-0007Ki-E2; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 06:01:58 -0700 References: <11E75566-9C0B-4A55-93BF-6D2AF3C013D2@mnot.net> <38e51d14-ff2e-209b-0707-2659e4967a02@nostrum.com> <1F2CA98A-E689-4955-8AE0-BC1F4B9E9F9A@mnot.net> <156f4f16-ecfa-ca46-48c3-63ece3b1d575@levkowetz.com> <9F9AF464-7598-42F2-9EAF-DAE5353C5C24@nostrum.com> <88A9A8C0-2F57-4765-B4CC-CE5864AEE9B1@mnot.net> <350cd758-fab6-83a1-d362-0158fbf3921c@levkowetz.com> <1D19F482-1CAF-442C-8975-3BD05136F3F4@tzi.org> <7533ac34-0716-c202-a034-e470599f8c42@levkowetz.com> Cc: Carsten Bormann , tools-discuss@ietf.org, Robert Sparks To: Mark Nottingham From: Henrik Levkowetz Message-ID: <36790986-5936-95ff-71d6-d3c62f28de3d@levkowetz.com> Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2019 15:01:49 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <7533ac34-0716-c202-a034-e470599f8c42@levkowetz.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="FqrI6UD2j062jSV48qcFqah0u086ETdMn" X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 158.174.202.242 X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rjsparks@nostrum.com, tools-discuss@ietf.org, cabo@tzi.org, mnot@mnot.net X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1 (built Mon, 26 Dec 2011 16:24:06 +0000) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on zinfandel.tools.ietf.org) X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] postconfirm X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2019 13:02:02 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --FqrI6UD2j062jSV48qcFqah0u086ETdMn Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="vCmEBu0UfKMlootLDi1NnDniONNt2JI0o"; protected-headers="v1" From: Henrik Levkowetz To: Mark Nottingham Cc: Carsten Bormann , tools-discuss@ietf.org, Robert Sparks Message-ID: <36790986-5936-95ff-71d6-d3c62f28de3d@levkowetz.com> Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] postconfirm References: <11E75566-9C0B-4A55-93BF-6D2AF3C013D2@mnot.net> <38e51d14-ff2e-209b-0707-2659e4967a02@nostrum.com> <1F2CA98A-E689-4955-8AE0-BC1F4B9E9F9A@mnot.net> <156f4f16-ecfa-ca46-48c3-63ece3b1d575@levkowetz.com> <9F9AF464-7598-42F2-9EAF-DAE5353C5C24@nostrum.com> <88A9A8C0-2F57-4765-B4CC-CE5864AEE9B1@mnot.net> <350cd758-fab6-83a1-d362-0158fbf3921c@levkowetz.com> <1D19F482-1CAF-442C-8975-3BD05136F3F4@tzi.org> <7533ac34-0716-c202-a034-e470599f8c42@levkowetz.com> In-Reply-To: <7533ac34-0716-c202-a034-e470599f8c42@levkowetz.com> --vCmEBu0UfKMlootLDi1NnDniONNt2JI0o Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mark: Please confirm or modify the proposed changes to subject line and body, so I can move forward with this. Henrik On 2019-06-25 12:51, Henrik Levkowetz wrote: > Hi Carsten, >=20 > On 2019-06-25 12:25, Carsten Bormann wrote: >> On Jun 25, 2019, at 07:30, Henrik Levkowetz wro= te: >>>=20 >>> Ok, so if the body was never read, that change is immaterial? >>=20 >> I wouldn=E2=80=99t say that =E2=80=94 you don=E2=80=99t want to lose t= he first half of the people in the Subject line and then the second half = when they do read the body, so both need to convey the =E2=80=9Caction re= quired=E2=80=9D message. >=20 > I would not say that either, but with Mark saying "Exactly" to Robert's= > statement that a body change would be a no-op, I'd like to be perfectly= > clear on what changes are actually desired, before I go touching the > email pipeline. >=20 > Mark, could you please accept or modify the proposed changes to subject= > line and body? You're the only one who have had direct contact with th= e > people who experienced an issue, so you have more information than the > rest of us about what the actual perception was. >=20 >=20 > Henrik >=20 --vCmEBu0UfKMlootLDi1NnDniONNt2JI0o-- --FqrI6UD2j062jSV48qcFqah0u086ETdMn Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEEifjc5+rnL1MJBcZSTptXS4+7FxoFAl0TbL0ACgkQTptXS4+7 FxrnzA/9FZ11YwSOjFmX975Z1vDEJVpePDQZxB4QouUE/WzZQIJIzEbsLQcDCiuZ nnrQNS8vhUzGIU7h/r4Rt2MlRUR8ZcPLY6M0V+sHc3qY8pFxtDCp/UKYZMOpXCjD INkzqNMQPsb0qDjGTZsOx815hqhUcMOw/2ZagP3xTRvhEBaCIMth8fPGptLVb1Ey VV3EUr1FQevWIvjXeFAdHDxAUEmzi3RFKVJ/zCOPHrpgZcYhZa7DXpfdR0kw0pkq 3+p5WHrIfv7jFV1L/Xy8dFLTrZ29yJAGQpkC7NrTSiw6mCV6XrhCXqsbtHYVAcaK OpRWeRB91DmmFo7PsCpSU1ve7xPF/0Fh8AI65WblvwE4pg+zGzepPIrEqYn3+6N4 qmThR50PHgRDrc4ZFaGVjVHU1tTvvpICWSlav/3S/Mt7IRZGvggUivCTRIXwPdVK Ye025NP3vhwob1CXyQ9g7chx9+9qxcX3Klsu5t2IFu5JJiht76rGtWThKtVScgIX TLoiUQ3me1wPZFpyRjYP617RLPgWKojo18zPxcP2Gg9qmBHPvJEGXnlq5kc+kqHR Nt8e+O51DpgU5+NOkeePmRe5D6bO/8ZwTMVjR8AWwVy/izyuTvGhESV5ThUIOfdW OZ1nmkorTN6RhrQnzp/Tk0WY4w+EkPbMNVSXanqnq8/4yKKTXV8= =jhM8 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --FqrI6UD2j062jSV48qcFqah0u086ETdMn-- From nobody Thu Jun 27 15:04:07 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EA72120253 for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 15:04:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qW3_O0rACRNz for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 15:04:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3:216:3eff:fe7c:d1f3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 183C91200F1 for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 15:04:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (unknown [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2:56b2:3ff:fe0b:d84]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD49C38183 for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 18:02:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 166A161 for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 18:04:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: tools-discuss@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <156166862058.21353.11154801767060383990.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> References: <156166862058.21353.11154801767060383990.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 24.5.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: [Tools-discuss] what is (was Re: New Non-WG Mailing List: qlog) X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 22:04:06 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain IETF Secretariat wrote: > A new IETF non-working group email list has been created. ... > Purpose: ... > into account aspects such as privacy and security. Further discussion > can also be done at https://github.com/quiclog/internet-drafts > Why do we have this redirect via fireeye.com? -- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAl0VPVEACgkQgItw+93Q 3WUSNQf9HeApB86Xybk9T+As6BRTl3IHxZUZqtsX/cl3uUkUNle86j9DksFC5riu WHZhYqsx4E/0fz24kF3Xh91O5C1Omv4wd0vik5xaui8tsn+sOWzCZr15FHmkAlEa poagF/teXdYPsrPGjEzJ/SHf9nPC0a/BTlRauSnG3SiOXnTuyhTzPVJWI1NtuDzF jPzhUSiS4Kl+jGOCOvc6PBp0JNxpefWquZeY6PzngJu6mcgcmoJKSFw4sT8il/6I vW3qLD9XOEvLfd3FZG2/4/+FTg1x7pWo+wBaOFAHTegwDjWWJsLUZPKkSBQ4+Xg2 HsRVFrbFjHGU9pB1J8+mfrSMN7hZog== =cIsg -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=--