Subject: IMC ietf-usefor archive

From: John Stanley <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 09:47:41 -0800 (PST)

Bruce Lilly <blilly@xxxxxxxxx>:

>You're not looking at "the archive"; you're looking at a bunch of HTML
>that bears a superficial resemblance to some fraction of an archive
>message.

"There is a complete archive of the mailing list." 

>If you want "the archive", I suspect that you may find a
>link to one on the IMC site ...

Yes, that's where I found it.

>Now why on Earth would somebody who refuses to accept mail
>want working mailto URIs ;/? 

I don't refuse all email, and the issue is not email, it is the continued
mangling of messages.

Frank Ellermann <nobody@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>:

>Web interfaces to archives of mailing lists _always_ munge
>anything with an "@" in it, this is just the 3rd millenium.

The don't "always" do this, and if this is already the 3rd millenium
you'd think programmers would be smart enough to know how not to do this.

>Maybe you like the GMaNe interfaces, it has even a "blog style",
>RDF news, search, NNTP, and other features. 

I like whatever "interface" it is that does not mangle the content of 
messages it is supposed to be archiving. Archives ought not to be hiding
the content they are intended to maintain.

---

From: Bruce Lilly <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 13:53:43 -0500

> "There is a complete archive of the mailing list." 

The corresponding link points to a web interface which
presents only fractions of messages.  And for the record,
the Landfield.com web interface also presented only
fractions of messages (in particular, there is no way in
either case to examine message header contents).

> >link to one on the IMC site ...

You will find on the same page the text
"You can also access the entire archive.", and the
corresponding link will provide you with the real archive,
unfettered by HTML constraints and without the
obfuscation of content that typically accompanies
web interfaces.

> the content they are intended to maintain.

The real archive, a.k.a. "entire archive" is not obfuscated.

---

From: "Charles Lindsey" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 14:45:21 GMT

>either case to examine message header contents).

Yes there is (was). The articles were also available in mbox format on a
month-by-month basis (and that same archive is now available on the new
site - indeed for stuff over 2 years old it is the only form available
until I get enough round tuits to copy over the remainder of the thml
archive).

>obfuscation of content that typically accompanies

But only as a monolithic file containing every message ever posted since
the list started. Fortunately, for this list that is not too big (yet).
But totally useless for a list like ietf-822.

Hence my complaint that the overall system is nowhere as useful as it was
on Landfield (when Landfield was working properly, that is).

-- 
Charles H. Lindsey ---------At Home, doing my own thing------------------------
Tel: +44 161 436 6131 Fax: +44 161 436 6133   Web: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~chl
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