Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-usefor-usefor-06.txt

From: John Stanley <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 09:56:06 -0800 (PST)

Ken Murchison <murch@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>:

>The change section mentions the ticket number along with a description of 
>what issue the ticket corresponds to, which hopefully should point you to 
>the proper area of the document.

Here's the first "change" listed in 06:

    o  Resolved ticket #1003 (msg-id).

That tells me that something about the "msg-id" has changed. It doesn't 
tell me what a "ticket #1003" is. I shouldn't have to find some arbitrary 
website somewhere, with an invalid SSL cert and a username/password tossed 
on top, to see what the topic for the change was, or if the ticket even 
lists what the specific change was.

Harald Tveit Alvestrand <harald@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>:

>I don't think it's a big issue - there are multiple places on the net that 
>will generate a diff for you (I prefer bgp.potaroo.net, but that's because 
>I like their diff format).

I can generate a diff; that's not the issue. Of course, one must have the 
-05 draft to do the diff against, and after searching the ietf website for 
ten minutes, even their "drafttracker" cannot find the -05 draft. So, no, 
I can't do the diff, nor can most other people who come across the -06 
draft and want to know what we've been doing.

>Next time, it might be nice to include the section number in the "resolved 
>ticket" note - I've tried to keep section numbers in the ticket titles, so 
>that shouldn't be too much work.

Maybe I wasn't clear enough. What appears in this ticket system is 
irrelevant. Unless I'm a member of this group already, I won't know
what this "ticket system" is, where it is, what the username is, and 
unless I'm lax on my security (by accepting invalid certs) can't get 
logged in anyway. Keep whatever you want in the "notes". It doesn't help.

BUT, I see that as recently as draft 4, things were done in a productive
and informative way.

]Changes since draft-ietf-usefor-usefor-03

]   o  Reworked ABNFs of several headers.

]   o  Used Charles' ABNF for <msg-id>.

Well, I'm not sure which of "several headers" to look at, but gosh if I
don't know precisely what bit of the draft to look at to see what the 
second change did. And the third, and the fourth, and the fifth. Etc.

---

From: Harald Tveit Alvestrand <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 07:36:47 +0100

Following up on this aspect in case someone doesn't know...

--On tirsdag, januar 10, 2006 09:56:06 -0800 John Stanley 
<[email-masked]> wrote:

>> I don't think it's a big issue - there are multiple places on the net
>> that  will generate a diff for you (I prefer bgp.potaroo.net, but that's
>> because  I like their diff format).
>
> -05 draft to do the diff against, and after searching the ietf website
> for ten minutes, even their "drafttracker" cannot find the -05 draft. So,
> no, I can't do the diff, nor can most other people who come across the
> -06 draft and want to know what we've been doing.

For those who might not know yet:

There's a long-standing debate in the IETF about the IETF's 
right/willingness to publish old and expired versions of I-Ds. At the 
moment, the status is that the IETF only publishes the latest version.

bgp.potaroo.net, watersprings.org and others are archives that, in addition 
to the current version, keep the old versions around - something the IETF 
secretariat is unable to do at the moment, based on what the IETF has said 
its procedures are.

                 Harald

---

From: "Charles Lindsey" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 16:59:47 GMT

>moment, the status is that the IETF only publishes the latest version.

But our earlier drafts can all be found on www.imc.org/ietf-usefor, and
there is also a pointer to the issue tracker there.

-- 
Charles H. Lindsey ---------At Home, doing my own thing------------------------
Tel: +44 161 436 6131 Fax: +44 161 436 6133   Web: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~chl
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