From w3c-dist-auth-request@frink.w3.org Sat Jul 02 12:21:09 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Dokjr-000807-AG for webdav-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 02 Jul 2005 12:21:09 -0400 Received: from frink.w3.org (frink.w3.org [128.30.52.16]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA03562 for ; Sat, 2 Jul 2005 12:21:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists by frink.w3.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1DokgD-0004ZS-QU for w3c-dist-auth-dist@listhub.w3.org; Sat, 02 Jul 2005 16:17:21 +0000 Received: from bart.w3.org ([128.30.52.40]) by frink.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DokgB-0004Yr-Bo for w3c-dist-auth@listhub.w3.org; Sat, 02 Jul 2005 16:17:19 +0000 Received: from sj-iport-5.cisco.com ([171.68.10.87]) by bart.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Dokg8-0000gp-Aa for w3c-dist-auth@w3.org; Sat, 02 Jul 2005 16:17:19 +0000 Received: from sj-core-5.cisco.com (171.71.177.238) by sj-iport-5.cisco.com with ESMTP; 02 Jul 2005 09:17:16 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: i="3.93,253,1115017200"; d="scan'208"; a="196051424:sNHT29054836" Received: from sea-alpha-e2k3.sea-alpha.cisco.com (sea-alpha-e2k3.cisco.com [10.93.132.88]) by sj-core-5.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j62GHDVX002022; Sat, 2 Jul 2005 09:17:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] ([171.68.225.134]) by sea-alpha-e2k3.sea-alpha.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Sat, 2 Jul 2005 09:21:31 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.1.0.040913 Date: Sat, 02 Jul 2005 09:17:15 -0700 From: Cullen Jennings To: Geoffrey M Clemm , WebDav Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Jul 2005 16:21:31.0592 (UTC) FILETIME=[1B70CC80:01C57F22] X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 X-W3C-Scan-Sig: bart.w3.org 1Dokg8-0000gp-Aa 56be62392dade38bfe1bab67974c4630 X-Original-To: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Subject: Re: BIND and live property value consistency X-Archived-At: http://www.w3.org/mid/BEEC0C1B.40E7E%25fluffy@cisco.com Resent-From: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9701 X-Loop: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Resent-Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Precedence: list List-Id: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: Resent-Message-Id: Resent-Date: Sat, 02 Jul 2005 16:17:21 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 6/27/05 8:22 PM, "Geoffrey M Clemm" wrote: > In particular, the authors of the BIND specification believe > that the semantics of a live property should be defined by > the specification that introduces that live property, > and if those semantics of a given live property are to be > redefined/refined/clarified, that should be done in a > specification that obsoletes the one with the original definition. I have a few random possibilities that might help the WG sort some of this issue out. Don't take any of these as the chair saying you should do this. They are just some ideas that might lead to figuring out how to do this. First, do everyone agree what to do about properties in future specs? I'm guessing we do but I'm not sure. One thing I wanted to point out is that an RFC can "update" previous RFC without obsolescing it. It would be possible to have BIND or bis update all the previous documents to provide advice on how properties work in the context of links. In the glacial time scale that these documents are taking, it seems like bis and bind will come out at approximately the same time. Would this all be easier if BIND depended on bis? The terms "changing the semantics" sounds good but I get a little lost on what is meant at times. Imagine we have some features of RFC 1000 called A, then later we defined an extension called RFC 1500 that added a new function called X. If 1500 added some additional semantics to feature A to define how it works with function X, that seems all find and dandy. If 1500 redefines how A works in a way that is not backwards compatible with a client and server that was written after 1000 but before 1500, this seem like it will introduce huge interop problems and needs to be considered very carefully. I'm get lost if we are doing the equivalent of changing how 1000 works or if we are providing additional information about what you need to do if you do both 1000 and 1500. There was a thread were we were trying to figure out how to get each property to behave. This seems like a really good approach, if we can figure out how we want them to work, then we can figure out if that is an update to where they are defined, then we can figure out what document to put the text it. enough rambling, upon more drinking a bunch more coffee, I may realize this email has nothing of any use :-) From w3c-dist-auth-request@frink.w3.org Sat Jul 02 12:21:09 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Dokjr-000802-AJ for webdav-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 02 Jul 2005 12:21:09 -0400 Received: from frink.w3.org (frink.w3.org [128.30.52.16]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA03561 for ; Sat, 2 Jul 2005 12:21:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists by frink.w3.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1DokgH-0004a9-5c for w3c-dist-auth-dist@listhub.w3.org; Sat, 02 Jul 2005 16:17:25 +0000 Received: from bart.w3.org ([128.30.52.40]) by frink.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DokgE-0004ZU-I8 for w3c-dist-auth@listhub.w3.org; Sat, 02 Jul 2005 16:17:22 +0000 Received: from sj-iport-3-in.cisco.com ([171.71.176.72] helo=sj-iport-3.cisco.com) by bart.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DokgB-0000hQ-U9 for w3c-dist-auth@w3.org; Sat, 02 Jul 2005 16:17:22 +0000 Received: from sj-core-2.cisco.com (171.71.177.254) by sj-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 02 Jul 2005 09:17:19 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: i="3.93,253,1115017200"; d="scan'208"; a="285357970:sNHT28083232" Received: from sea-alpha-e2k3.sea-alpha.cisco.com (sea-alpha-e2k3.cisco.com [10.93.132.88]) by sj-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j62GHDod016182; Sat, 2 Jul 2005 09:17:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] ([171.68.225.134]) by sea-alpha-e2k3.sea-alpha.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Sat, 2 Jul 2005 09:21:37 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.1.0.040913 Date: Sat, 02 Jul 2005 09:17:22 -0700 From: Cullen Jennings To: Geoffrey M Clemm , WebDav Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Jul 2005 16:21:37.0701 (UTC) FILETIME=[1F14F550:01C57F22] X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.4 X-W3C-Scan-Sig: bart.w3.org 1DokgB-0000hQ-U9 933bef7142e63e66852b3bd9fa7d5dad X-Original-To: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Subject: Re: BIND and live property value consistency X-Archived-At: http://www.w3.org/mid/BEEC0C22.40E7E%25fluffy@cisco.com Resent-From: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9702 X-Loop: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Resent-Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Precedence: list List-Id: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: Resent-Message-Id: Resent-Date: Sat, 02 Jul 2005 16:17:25 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 6/27/05 8:22 PM, "Geoffrey M Clemm" wrote: > A key question is whether disagreement on such a point > from a single workgroup participant can veto a specification. Let me answer about the very general case and not about this specific topic of BIND. It can be hard to decide how to decide consensus with a group this small. To answer your question, I think the short answer is mostly No but the long answer is more complex. I view it as extremely likely that if there was only a single person that disagreed, I would call it consensus. I would want to spend the time to make sure that the WG understood the disagreement and had provided informed comment. However, if the number of people involved was amazingly small, there would be some point where I would just have to say this WG is too small to say that the work reflected consensus of any relevant group and recommend we just close the group. We have so few people, it would be far easier for me if we came to conclusions that all the key contributors could live with even if they did not think the decision is the absolute best path. On the topic at hand, keep in mind that we have to come to something that not only makes sense to the WG but also makes sense to the IESG. From w3c-dist-auth-request@frink.w3.org Sat Jul 02 12:21:09 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Dokjr-000807-AG for webdav-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 02 Jul 2005 12:21:09 -0400 Received: from frink.w3.org (frink.w3.org [128.30.52.16]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA03562 for ; Sat, 2 Jul 2005 12:21:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists by frink.w3.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1DokgD-0004ZS-QU for w3c-dist-auth-dist@listhub.w3.org; Sat, 02 Jul 2005 16:17:21 +0000 Received: from bart.w3.org ([128.30.52.40]) by frink.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DokgB-0004Yr-Bo for w3c-dist-auth@listhub.w3.org; Sat, 02 Jul 2005 16:17:19 +0000 Received: from sj-iport-5.cisco.com ([171.68.10.87]) by bart.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Dokg8-0000gp-Aa for w3c-dist-auth@w3.org; Sat, 02 Jul 2005 16:17:19 +0000 Received: from sj-core-5.cisco.com (171.71.177.238) by sj-iport-5.cisco.com with ESMTP; 02 Jul 2005 09:17:16 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: i="3.93,253,1115017200"; d="scan'208"; a="196051424:sNHT29054836" Received: from sea-alpha-e2k3.sea-alpha.cisco.com (sea-alpha-e2k3.cisco.com [10.93.132.88]) by sj-core-5.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j62GHDVX002022; Sat, 2 Jul 2005 09:17:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] ([171.68.225.134]) by sea-alpha-e2k3.sea-alpha.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Sat, 2 Jul 2005 09:21:31 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.1.0.040913 Date: Sat, 02 Jul 2005 09:17:15 -0700 From: Cullen Jennings To: Geoffrey M Clemm , WebDav Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Jul 2005 16:21:31.0592 (UTC) FILETIME=[1B70CC80:01C57F22] X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 X-W3C-Scan-Sig: bart.w3.org 1Dokg8-0000gp-Aa 56be62392dade38bfe1bab67974c4630 X-Original-To: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Subject: Re: BIND and live property value consistency X-Archived-At: http://www.w3.org/mid/BEEC0C1B.40E7E%25fluffy@cisco.com Resent-From: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9701 X-Loop: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Resent-Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Precedence: list List-Id: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: Resent-Message-Id: Resent-Date: Sat, 02 Jul 2005 16:17:21 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 6/27/05 8:22 PM, "Geoffrey M Clemm" wrote: > In particular, the authors of the BIND specification believe > that the semantics of a live property should be defined by > the specification that introduces that live property, > and if those semantics of a given live property are to be > redefined/refined/clarified, that should be done in a > specification that obsoletes the one with the original definition. I have a few random possibilities that might help the WG sort some of this issue out. Don't take any of these as the chair saying you should do this. They are just some ideas that might lead to figuring out how to do this. First, do everyone agree what to do about properties in future specs? I'm guessing we do but I'm not sure. One thing I wanted to point out is that an RFC can "update" previous RFC without obsolescing it. It would be possible to have BIND or bis update all the previous documents to provide advice on how properties work in the context of links. In the glacial time scale that these documents are taking, it seems like bis and bind will come out at approximately the same time. Would this all be easier if BIND depended on bis? The terms "changing the semantics" sounds good but I get a little lost on what is meant at times. Imagine we have some features of RFC 1000 called A, then later we defined an extension called RFC 1500 that added a new function called X. If 1500 added some additional semantics to feature A to define how it works with function X, that seems all find and dandy. If 1500 redefines how A works in a way that is not backwards compatible with a client and server that was written after 1000 but before 1500, this seem like it will introduce huge interop problems and needs to be considered very carefully. I'm get lost if we are doing the equivalent of changing how 1000 works or if we are providing additional information about what you need to do if you do both 1000 and 1500. There was a thread were we were trying to figure out how to get each property to behave. This seems like a really good approach, if we can figure out how we want them to work, then we can figure out if that is an update to where they are defined, then we can figure out what document to put the text it. enough rambling, upon more drinking a bunch more coffee, I may realize this email has nothing of any use :-) From w3c-dist-auth-request@frink.w3.org Sat Jul 02 12:21:09 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Dokjr-000802-AJ for webdav-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 02 Jul 2005 12:21:09 -0400 Received: from frink.w3.org (frink.w3.org [128.30.52.16]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA03561 for ; Sat, 2 Jul 2005 12:21:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists by frink.w3.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1DokgH-0004a9-5c for w3c-dist-auth-dist@listhub.w3.org; Sat, 02 Jul 2005 16:17:25 +0000 Received: from bart.w3.org ([128.30.52.40]) by frink.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DokgE-0004ZU-I8 for w3c-dist-auth@listhub.w3.org; Sat, 02 Jul 2005 16:17:22 +0000 Received: from sj-iport-3-in.cisco.com ([171.71.176.72] helo=sj-iport-3.cisco.com) by bart.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DokgB-0000hQ-U9 for w3c-dist-auth@w3.org; Sat, 02 Jul 2005 16:17:22 +0000 Received: from sj-core-2.cisco.com (171.71.177.254) by sj-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 02 Jul 2005 09:17:19 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: i="3.93,253,1115017200"; d="scan'208"; a="285357970:sNHT28083232" Received: from sea-alpha-e2k3.sea-alpha.cisco.com (sea-alpha-e2k3.cisco.com [10.93.132.88]) by sj-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j62GHDod016182; Sat, 2 Jul 2005 09:17:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] ([171.68.225.134]) by sea-alpha-e2k3.sea-alpha.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Sat, 2 Jul 2005 09:21:37 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.1.0.040913 Date: Sat, 02 Jul 2005 09:17:22 -0700 From: Cullen Jennings To: Geoffrey M Clemm , WebDav Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Jul 2005 16:21:37.0701 (UTC) FILETIME=[1F14F550:01C57F22] X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.4 X-W3C-Scan-Sig: bart.w3.org 1DokgB-0000hQ-U9 933bef7142e63e66852b3bd9fa7d5dad X-Original-To: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Subject: Re: BIND and live property value consistency X-Archived-At: http://www.w3.org/mid/BEEC0C22.40E7E%25fluffy@cisco.com Resent-From: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9702 X-Loop: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Resent-Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Precedence: list List-Id: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: Resent-Message-Id: Resent-Date: Sat, 02 Jul 2005 16:17:25 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 6/27/05 8:22 PM, "Geoffrey M Clemm" wrote: > A key question is whether disagreement on such a point > from a single workgroup participant can veto a specification. Let me answer about the very general case and not about this specific topic of BIND. It can be hard to decide how to decide consensus with a group this small. To answer your question, I think the short answer is mostly No but the long answer is more complex. I view it as extremely likely that if there was only a single person that disagreed, I would call it consensus. I would want to spend the time to make sure that the WG understood the disagreement and had provided informed comment. However, if the number of people involved was amazingly small, there would be some point where I would just have to say this WG is too small to say that the work reflected consensus of any relevant group and recommend we just close the group. We have so few people, it would be far easier for me if we came to conclusions that all the key contributors could live with even if they did not think the decision is the absolute best path. On the topic at hand, keep in mind that we have to come to something that not only makes sense to the WG but also makes sense to the IESG. From w3c-dist-auth-request@frink.w3.org Sun Jul 03 00:35:01 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DowC5-0005Yd-F7 for webdav-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 03 Jul 2005 00:35:01 -0400 Received: from frink.w3.org (frink.w3.org [128.30.52.16]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA03016 for ; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 00:34:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists by frink.w3.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1Dow8h-0005V8-2A for w3c-dist-auth-dist@listhub.w3.org; Sun, 03 Jul 2005 04:31:31 +0000 Received: from lisa.w3.org ([128.30.52.41]) by frink.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Dow8S-0005U6-3J for w3c-dist-auth@listhub.w3.org; Sun, 03 Jul 2005 04:31:16 +0000 Received: from sj-iport-3-in.cisco.com ([171.71.176.72] helo=sj-iport-3.cisco.com) by lisa.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Dow8O-00020N-H2 for w3c-dist-auth@w3.org; Sun, 03 Jul 2005 04:31:16 +0000 Received: from sj-core-2.cisco.com (171.71.177.254) by sj-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 02 Jul 2005 21:31:11 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: i="3.93,253,1115017200"; d="scan'208"; a="285437974:sNHT28903684" Received: from sea-alpha-e2k3.sea-alpha.cisco.com (sea-alpha-e2k3.cisco.com [10.93.132.88]) by sj-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j634VAod012211; Sat, 2 Jul 2005 21:31:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] ([171.68.225.134]) by sea-alpha-e2k3.sea-alpha.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Sat, 2 Jul 2005 21:35:29 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.1.0.040913 Date: Sat, 02 Jul 2005 21:31:12 -0700 From: Cullen Jennings To: Julian Reschke CC: WebDav , Lisa Dusseault Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <42B1C3D2.90207@gmx.de> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Jul 2005 04:35:29.0686 (UTC) FILETIME=[A430AB60:01C57F88] X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 X-W3C-Scan-Sig: lisa.w3.org 1Dow8O-00020N-H2 1caaf45425d0ae4b537c3b08ecb09984 X-Original-To: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Subject: Re: WGLC draft-ietf-webdav-quota-07 X-Archived-At: http://www.w3.org/mid/BEECB820.40E8B%25fluffy@cisco.com Resent-From: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9703 X-Loop: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Resent-Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Precedence: list List-Id: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: Resent-Message-Id: Resent-Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 04:31:31 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm trying to summarize the two things you would prefer to see changed. Tell me am I getting this right? 1) The document REQUIRES the attributes that report the used and remaining bytes of quota space to exist on collections but makes them optional on other resources. Some WG members feel it would be better to required on all resources but are OK with how it is written now. 2) In 2518, if a Dav server that had a disk full situations, the server would return a 507. Now with quota there are two reasons a 507 could happen, a disk full (as before) or a quota exceeded. The quota exceeded is a very similar but slightly different error. To enable a client to display an error message to a human user to differentiate these two things, a server that had a disk full error would return a 507 with a DeltaV style error body that indicated the disk was full. Is your issue that a) this should not be defined in the quota document b) you don't think we should do this at all and the DeltaV error for a disk full should be the same as the response for quota exceeded? In trying to summarize the issues I realized I did not understand what you were concerned with and more specifically exactly what you would propose we change to fix the concern. Thanks, Cullen On 6/16/05 11:24 AM, "Julian Reschke" wrote: > Cullen Jennings wrote: >> >> I would like to start working group last call >> >> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-webdav-quota-07.txt >> >> This WGCL will end on June 27th so please have your comments emailed to this >> list before then. >> >> Thank you, Cullen > > Hi, > > we (greenbytes, currently contracting for SAP), do not intend to > implement the QUOTA spec any time soon, but we do feel that the spec is > stable and mature, and it is suited as an interoperable base for a set > of differing quota implementations. > > Some more thoughts: > > - The spec started as a description of a very specific quota > implementation, which wasn't directly implementable for other quota > systems such as the Unix one; as far as I can tell, this problem has > been resolved. > > - The spec still contains a somewehat arbitrary optimization for a > specific type of implementation (requiring live properties on > collections but not on it's members). I'd prefer that one to be removed, > simplifying the spec a bit more, but unless others feel the same way, we > should probably leave things as they are (WG dicussion back in > ) > > - The spec currently suggests that disk limits to be marshalled as > quotas. I'm not sure this is a good idea (for instance, Unix handles > those very differently), but again I'm not planning to lie down in the > road because of it. > > Best regards, > > Julian From w3c-dist-auth-request@frink.w3.org Sun Jul 03 07:17:18 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Dp2TO-0005um-Er for webdav-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 03 Jul 2005 07:17:18 -0400 Received: from frink.w3.org (frink.w3.org [128.30.52.16]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA11204 for ; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 07:17:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists by frink.w3.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1Dp2Qj-0000fT-IA for w3c-dist-auth-dist@listhub.w3.org; Sun, 03 Jul 2005 11:14:33 +0000 Received: from bart.w3.org ([128.30.52.40]) by frink.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Dp2Qh-0000eo-CE for w3c-dist-auth@listhub.w3.org; Sun, 03 Jul 2005 11:14:31 +0000 Received: from imap.gmx.net ([213.165.64.20] helo=mail.gmx.net) by bart.w3.org with smtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Dp2Qd-0002Ys-67 for w3c-dist-auth@w3.org; Sun, 03 Jul 2005 11:14:31 +0000 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 03 Jul 2005 11:14:24 -0000 Received: from p508F841F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de (EHLO [192.168.178.21]) [80.143.132.31] by mail.gmx.net (mp013) with SMTP; 03 Jul 2005 13:14:24 +0200 X-Authenticated: #1915285 Message-ID: <42C7C885.40908@gmx.de> Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 13:14:13 +0200 From: Julian Reschke User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (Windows/20050317) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Cullen Jennings CC: WebDav , Lisa Dusseault References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 X-W3C-Scan-Sig: bart.w3.org 1Dp2Qd-0002Ys-67 43d754b994de321785f8c5237a9b3071 X-Original-To: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Subject: Re: WGLC draft-ietf-webdav-quota-07 X-Archived-At: http://www.w3.org/mid/42C7C885.40908@gmx.de Resent-From: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9704 X-Loop: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Resent-Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Precedence: list List-Id: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: Resent-Message-Id: Resent-Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 11:14:33 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cullen Jennings wrote: > I'm trying to summarize the two things you would prefer to see changed. Tell > me am I getting this right? > > 1) The document REQUIRES the attributes that report the used and remaining > bytes of quota space to exist on collections but makes them optional on > other resources. Some WG members feel it would be better to required on all > resources but are OK with how it is written now. Correct (it's simply a matter of having the spec as simple as possible, and not to optimize marshalling for one specific implementation). > 2) In 2518, if a Dav server that had a disk full situations, the server > would return a 507. Now with quota there are two reasons a 507 could happen, > a disk full (as before) or a quota exceeded. The quota exceeded is a very RFC2518 () says: "The 507 (Insufficient Storage) status code means the method could not be performed on the resource because the server is unable to store the representation needed to successfully complete the request. This condition is considered to be temporary. If the request which received this status code was the result of a user action, the request MUST NOT be repeated until it is requested by a separate user action." which I think can be understood to include storage limits not imposed by the hardware. So I'd call that a clarification, not extension. > similar but slightly different error. To enable a client to display an error Yes. > message to a human user to differentiate these two things, a server that had > a disk full error would return a 507 with a DeltaV style error body that > indicated the disk was full. Is your issue that a) this should not be The two precondition names allow a client to distinguish between both. For instance, a *nix file system driver could use that information to generate the proper *nix error (which is different for disk size limits and quota limits). > defined in the quota document b) you don't think we should do this at all > and the DeltaV error for a disk full should be the same as the response for > quota exceeded? In trying to summarize the issues I realized I did not > understand what you were concerned with and more specifically exactly what > you would propose we change to fix the concern. No, my concern is indeed a different one. In general, systems consider disk limits and quota different things, and there are different APIs to discover/manipulate them, and different status codes to distinguish between both ("in general", i.e. I am aware that there are systems that treat both the same way). My preference would have been that the quota properties are indeed only used for quotas; and that if people need to get information about disk limits as well, we handle them as separate properties. The quota spec currently doesn't precisely define what it understands as "quota". It introduces some requirements in without ever mentioning disk limits, but then goes on to say (: "Note that there may be a number of distinct but overlapping limits, which may even include physical media limits." So if it defines physical disk limits to be a kind of quota, it would be better to express that in a proper definition of the term "quota", instead of just hinting at it later in the spec. Again, my preference would have been to treat them as separate things, with different live properties and different precondition names (fortunately, the latter we're added). > Thanks, Cullen Hope this helps, Julian From w3c-dist-auth-request@frink.w3.org Sun Jul 03 11:04:16 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Dp611-0006OE-IS for webdav-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 03 Jul 2005 11:04:16 -0400 Received: from frink.w3.org (frink.w3.org [128.30.52.16]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA06950 for ; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 11:04:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists by frink.w3.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1Dp5ym-0002wF-Sn for w3c-dist-auth-dist@listhub.w3.org; Sun, 03 Jul 2005 15:01:56 +0000 Received: from bart.w3.org ([128.30.52.40]) by frink.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Dp5yj-0002vh-Gj for w3c-dist-auth@listhub.w3.org; Sun, 03 Jul 2005 15:01:53 +0000 Received: from mail.gmx.net ([213.165.64.20]) by bart.w3.org with smtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Dp5ye-0005E9-TV for w3c-dist-auth@w3.org; Sun, 03 Jul 2005 15:01:53 +0000 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 03 Jul 2005 15:01:46 -0000 Received: from p508F841F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de (EHLO [192.168.178.21]) [80.143.132.31] by mail.gmx.net (mp011) with SMTP; 03 Jul 2005 17:01:46 +0200 X-Authenticated: #1915285 Message-ID: <42C7FDC6.3000405@gmx.de> Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 17:01:26 +0200 From: Julian Reschke User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (Windows/20050317) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Cullen Jennings CC: Geoffrey M Clemm , WebDav References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 X-W3C-Scan-Sig: bart.w3.org 1Dp5ye-0005E9-TV a8d6de28b8bbd66e514323381f5b750b X-Original-To: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Subject: Re: BIND and live property value consistency X-Archived-At: http://www.w3.org/mid/42C7FDC6.3000405@gmx.de Resent-From: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9705 X-Loop: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Resent-Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Precedence: list List-Id: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: Resent-Message-Id: Resent-Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 15:01:56 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cullen Jennings wrote: > On 6/27/05 8:22 PM, "Geoffrey M Clemm" wrote: > > >>In particular, the authors of the BIND specification believe >>that the semantics of a live property should be defined by >>the specification that introduces that live property, >>and if those semantics of a given live property are to be >>redefined/refined/clarified, that should be done in a >>specification that obsoletes the one with the original definition. > > > I have a few random possibilities that might help the WG sort some of this > issue out. Don't take any of these as the chair saying you should do this. > They are just some ideas that might lead to figuring out how to do this. > > First, do everyone agree what to do about properties in future specs? I'm > guessing we do but I'm not sure. As far as I can tell, Lisa likes to see new constraints on the behaviour on some or all of the DAV:get* properties (which in turn are inherited from RFC2616's HTTP response headers). Looking at : "Where this document explains how MOVE and COPY should work with getLastModified and ETags, I agree with the explanations. Where the document explains that ETag behavior on multiple bindings must remain unspecified, I disagree, as already noted. Where the document says that header behavior is impossible to predict because the headers are defined by HTTP, I agree that is the situation in fact today, however I propose that we do better to help clients here. The bind spec can, and should, put more restrictions on servers that support that spec in how they handle ETags and last-modified timestamps." I understand this is an acknowledgment that my analysis about the interaction between HTTP's response headers and WebDAV's namespace operations () is indeed correct, but that she would like the BIND spec to introduce new constraints. First of all, it's unclear to me what these new constraints would be, at least for the case of DAV:getlastmodified (please clarify). Furthermore, I don't see *at all* why it would be the BIND spec that should introduce these constraints. It may be a good idea to define a specific WebDAV profile where clients can rely on some of these properties behaving in a more predictable way (including a method for clients to detect that), but that would be a *profile* that many RFC2518-compliant servers will not be able to implement. > One thing I wanted to point out is that an RFC can "update" previous RFC > without obsolescing it. It would be possible to have BIND or bis update all > the previous documents to provide advice on how properties work in the > context of links. As a matter of fact, the current draft indeed says that it is updating RFC2518 (see for history of decision). The question is: if we want to state something which is missing from RFC2518 (like a discussion about the behaviour DAV:get* properties under namespace operations), does it belong into BIND or into RFC2518bis? What would be the benefit of putting it into BIND, when many implementors may not even read it there? > In the glacial time scale that these documents are taking, it seems like bis > and bind will come out at approximately the same time. Would this all be > easier if BIND depended on bis? In the end, it won't matter a lot if we really finish RFC2518bis as proposed. However, I'm not sure of any objective benefit of that compared of letting BIND refer to RFC2518, and having RFC2518bis obsolete RFC2518 later. > The terms "changing the semantics" sounds good but I get a little lost on > what is meant at times. Imagine we have some features of RFC 1000 called A, > then later we defined an extension called RFC 1500 that added a new function > called X. If 1500 added some additional semantics to feature A to define how > it works with function X, that seems all find and dandy. If 1500 redefines > how A works in a way that is not backwards compatible with a client and > server that was written after 1000 but before 1500, this seem like it will > introduce huge interop problems and needs to be considered very carefully. Right. > I'm get lost if we are doing the equivalent of changing how 1000 works or if > we are providing additional information about what you need to do if you do > both 1000 and 1500. When we're doing something like fixing the definition of DELETE , this is indeed a fix (RFC2518 said something about DELETE on resources with multiple URIs that the WG decided is simply incorrect; also resulting in a change in RFC2518bis). On the other hand, we have been very careful in *not* breaking existing semantics for BIND. For instance, instead of changing RFC2518's definition of MOVE, we have defined a new method REBIND instead. This will allow servers to keep implementing RFC2518's definition of MOVE (non-atomic, best effort), while also providing a new method with stronger sematics (that however may fail where MOVE succeeded for the same parameters). The proposal to constrain the behaviour of the RFC2616-inherited properties IMHO will either cause servers not to be implement BIND at all, or not to implement that constraint (thus to be non-compliant). Thus, tying both things (authoring/discovery of multiple bindings vs live property behaviour) seems to me like a very bad idea. If anybody wants to make things easier for some clients, the right approach seems to define a profile of WebDAV/BIND, and provide a method for clients to detect support for that. But this does not belong into BIND. > There was a thread were we were trying to figure out how to get each > property to behave. This seems like a really good approach, if we can figure > out how we want them to work, then we can figure out if that is an update to > where they are defined, then we can figure out what document to put the text > it. As far as I can tell, there's clearly no consensus for adding new constraints. That seems to leave us with the following options: 1) Do not say anything at all; and let RFC2518bis provide additional clarification. This makes a lot of sense, because the whole discussion is really independant of BIND, because it's a result of namespace operations in general. 2) State what really shouldn't need to be stated: live properties behave exactly in the manner defined by their base specs, potentially including a table. My personal preference would be in favor of simplicity (thus 1), but I'm open for the other options, if this is what the WG wants. > enough rambling, upon more drinking a bunch more coffee, I may realize this > email has nothing of any use :-) Oh yes, it had. Best regards, Julian From w3c-dist-auth-request@frink.w3.org Sun Jul 03 14:13:18 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Dp8xw-0004pj-6c for webdav-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 03 Jul 2005 14:13:18 -0400 Received: from frink.w3.org (frink.w3.org [128.30.52.16]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA23659 for ; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 14:13:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists by frink.w3.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1Dp8tv-0004Bh-HN for w3c-dist-auth-dist@listhub.w3.org; Sun, 03 Jul 2005 18:09:07 +0000 Received: from maggie.w3.org ([193.51.208.68]) by frink.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Dp8ts-0004B9-K9 for w3c-dist-auth@listhub.w3.org; Sun, 03 Jul 2005 18:09:04 +0000 Received: from imap.gmx.net ([213.165.64.20] helo=mail.gmx.net) by maggie.w3.org with smtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Dp8tq-0007KX-LR for w3c-dist-auth@w3.org; Sun, 03 Jul 2005 18:09:06 +0000 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 03 Jul 2005 18:08:58 -0000 Received: from p508F841F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de (EHLO [192.168.178.21]) [80.143.132.31] by mail.gmx.net (mp008) with SMTP; 03 Jul 2005 20:08:58 +0200 X-Authenticated: #1915285 Message-ID: <42C8299F.2060805@gmx.de> Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 20:08:31 +0200 From: Julian Reschke User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (Windows/20050317) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: John Baumgarten CC: WebDav References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.3 X-W3C-Scan-Sig: maggie.w3.org 1Dp8tq-0007KX-LR fc8de66a98b6b02e8d1745e3aa956ee5 X-Original-To: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Subject: Re: WGLC draft-ietf-webdav-redirectref-protocol-12 X-Archived-At: http://www.w3.org/mid/42C8299F.2060805@gmx.de Resent-From: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9706 X-Loop: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Resent-Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Precedence: list List-Id: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: Resent-Message-Id: Resent-Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 18:09:07 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John Baumgarten wrote: > > All- > > After reviewing this draft, I have decided that the protocol is too > complex for our needs with .Mac. In particular, the failure of locking > methods that contain redirected resources would confuse our clients. > Instead, we have decided to implement a simpler redirect capability via > a custom property (not a WebDAV resource type) that is only activated > when indicated by the client request. > > Given this decision, I will not be able to provide specific feedback on > the draft. > > -Jake Jake, thanks for the feedback. As a general comment: it's really good to know why a given part of a specification can't be easily implemented in a server. That's exactly the kind of valuable feedback the working group needs to gather in WGLC (or earlier :-). In this particular case, you have catched a part of the spec which is indeed hard to implement (and in fact isn't by us!). In defining how redirect reference resources should interact with other methods and WebDAV collections, the spec roughly follows this line of reasoning: 1) HEAD and GET applied to a redirect resource by a standard client should result in a 3xx status code (that's the whole point of having those resources :-). 2) If this is true for GET and HEAD, it also should be true for other methods. 3) Clients aware of REDIRECT should be able to override this behaviour (so that they can for instance PROPFIND/PROPPATCH/DELETE a redirect). This is accomplished through the use of the Apply-To-Redirect-Ref request header (see ). 4) RFC2518 dictates that by default a Depth: infinity request header should work as if the request would have been applied to each member; therefor REDIRECT requires these operations to result in a 207 (Multistatus) if the collection contains redirects (and the Apply-To-Redirect-Ref wasn't set to "T"). It turns out that 4) is extremly hard to implement on top of systems that do not implement any specific treatment of redirects natively. For instance, an imaginary WebDAV server that maps file resources to WebDAV resources and that implements redirects as symbolic links in the filesystem would need to walk through the whole hierarchy to check for redirects, before actually doing the appropriate system call for a rename. This doesn't look practical. I assume that REDIRECT uses this approach for the sake of maximum consistency with HTTP/1.1 (redirect status codes) and WebDAV (Depth request header). However, there obviously is a tradeoff in terms of implementability. We probably need to take a look at each method that uses the Depth request header and decide what is reasonable. What you stumbled upon was LOCK. From RFC2518's definition of the Depth header (): "The Depth header is used with methods executed on resources which could potentially have internal members to indicate whether the method is to be applied only to the resource ("Depth: 0"), to the resource and its immediate children, ("Depth: 1"), or the resource and all its progeny ("Depth: infinity"). The Depth header is only supported if a method's definition explicitly provides for such support. The following rules are the default behavior for any method that supports the Depth header. A method may override these defaults by defining different behavior in its definition." So by this definition, a LOCK request with Depth: Infinity means that the request is to be applied to the resource identified by the request-URI and - recursively - all its members. This is clearly *not* what a deep lock does - it generates a *single* lock, not one for each member. This lock indeed affects all members, but in a completely different way from what would happen if one would apply the lock to each resource separately. Funny enough, the definition of LOCK indeed clarifies what the Depth header means () here: "The Depth header may be used with the LOCK method. Values other than 0 or infinity MUST NOT be used with the Depth header on a LOCK method. All resources that support the LOCK method MUST support the Depth header. A Depth header of value 0 means to just lock the resource specified by the Request-URI. If the Depth header is set to infinity then the resource specified in the Request-URI along with all its internal members, all the way down the hierarchy, are to be locked. A successful result MUST return a single lock token which represents all the resources that have been locked. If an UNLOCK is successfully executed on this token, all associated resources are unlocked. If the lock cannot be granted to all resources, a 409 (Conflict) status code MUST be returned with a response entity body containing a multistatus XML element describing which resource(s) prevented the lock from being granted. Hence, partial success is not an option. Either the entire hierarchy is locked or no resources are locked." By that definition, it looks entirely reasonable that the presence of a a redirect shouldn't affect the result of a deep lock request at all (if there's a redirect in scope, the redirect itself should be locked as well). My proposal is that we go through the list of methods that use the Depth header, and define the expected outcome separately (rewriting the whole section of ). That may take some time, but will surely be worth the effort if more servers will actually be able to implement the spec. Feedback appreciated, Julian From w3c-dist-auth-request@frink.w3.org Sun Jul 03 16:26:02 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DpB2N-0004O0-OX for webdav-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 03 Jul 2005 16:26:02 -0400 Received: from frink.w3.org (frink.w3.org [128.30.52.16]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA07260 for ; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 16:25:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists by frink.w3.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1DpB05-0004l9-CI for w3c-dist-auth-dist@listhub.w3.org; Sun, 03 Jul 2005 20:23:37 +0000 Received: from bart.w3.org ([128.30.52.40]) by frink.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DpB01-0004kT-T1 for w3c-dist-auth@listhub.w3.org; Sun, 03 Jul 2005 20:23:33 +0000 Received: from e2.ny.us.ibm.com ([32.97.182.142]) by bart.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DpAzx-00006J-9p for w3c-dist-auth@w3.org; Sun, 03 Jul 2005 20:23:33 +0000 Received: from d01relay02.pok.ibm.com (d01relay02.pok.ibm.com [9.56.227.234]) by e2.ny.us.ibm.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j63KNSbr027324 for ; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 16:23:28 -0400 Received: from d01av01.pok.ibm.com (d01av01.pok.ibm.com [9.56.224.215]) by d01relay02.pok.ibm.com (8.12.10/NCO/VERS6.7) with ESMTP id j63KNS0c256748 for ; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 16:23:28 -0400 Received: from d01av01.pok.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d01av01.pok.ibm.com (8.12.11/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j63KNSDA022215 for ; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 16:23:28 -0400 Received: from d01ml261.pok.ibm.com (d01ml261.pok.ibm.com [9.56.227.97]) by d01av01.pok.ibm.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j63KNSJ4022210 for ; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 16:23:28 -0400 In-Reply-To: <42C8299F.2060805@gmx.de> To: " webdav" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 6.0.2CF1 June 9, 2003 From: Geoffrey M Clemm Message-ID: Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2005 16:23:24 -0400 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on D01ML261/01/M/IBM(Build V70_M4_01112005 Beta 3|January 11, 2005) at 07/03/2005 16:23:28, Serialize complete at 07/03/2005 16:23:28 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_alternative 006FFF0385257033_=" X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 X-W3C-Scan-Sig: bart.w3.org 1DpAzx-00006J-9p 94ccf54bcb97857f2b0d235b6f7a3245 X-Original-To: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Subject: Re: WGLC draft-ietf-webdav-redirectref-protocol-12 X-Archived-At: http://www.w3.org/mid/OF5A19A839.D0EFEC7F-ON85257033.006FC98F-85257033.007001E9@us.ibm.com Resent-From: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9707 X-Loop: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Resent-Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Precedence: list List-Id: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: Resent-Message-Id: Resent-Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 20:23:37 +0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 006FFF0385257033_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" I agree with Julian that the Depth infinity section of redirectref should be redefined based on this implementation experience. Cheers, Geoff Julian wrote on 07/03/2005 02:08:31 PM: > > John Baumgarten wrote: > > > > All- > > > > After reviewing this draft, I have decided that the protocol is too > > complex for our needs with .Mac. In particular, the failure of locking > > methods that contain redirected resources would confuse our clients. > > Instead, we have decided to implement a simpler redirect capability via > > a custom property (not a WebDAV resource type) that is only activated > > when indicated by the client request. > > > > Given this decision, I will not be able to provide specific feedback on > > the draft. > > > > -Jake > > Jake, > > thanks for the feedback. > > As a general comment: it's really good to know why a given part of a > specification can't be easily implemented in a server. That's exactly > the kind of valuable feedback the working group needs to gather in WGLC > (or earlier :-). > > In this particular case, you have catched a part of the spec which is > indeed hard to implement (and in fact isn't by us!). > > In defining how redirect reference resources should interact with other > methods and WebDAV collections, the spec roughly follows this line of > reasoning: > > 1) HEAD and GET applied to a redirect resource by a standard client > should result in a 3xx status code (that's the whole point of having > those resources :-). > > 2) If this is true for GET and HEAD, it also should be true for other > methods. > > 3) Clients aware of REDIRECT should be able to override this behaviour > (so that they can for instance PROPFIND/PROPPATCH/DELETE a redirect). > This is accomplished through the use of the Apply-To-Redirect-Ref > request header (see > protocol-12.html#header.apply-to-redirect-ref>). > > 4) RFC2518 dictates that by default a Depth: infinity request header > should work as if the request would have been applied to each member; > therefor REDIRECT requires these operations to result in a 207 > (Multistatus) if the collection contains redirects (and the > Apply-To-Redirect-Ref wasn't set to "T"). > > It turns out that 4) is extremly hard to implement on top of systems > that do not implement any specific treatment of redirects natively. > > For instance, an imaginary WebDAV server that maps file resources to > WebDAV resources and that implements redirects as symbolic links in the > filesystem would need to walk through the whole hierarchy to check for > redirects, before actually doing the appropriate system call for a > rename. This doesn't look practical. > > I assume that REDIRECT uses this approach for the sake of maximum > consistency with HTTP/1.1 (redirect status codes) and WebDAV (Depth > request header). However, there obviously is a tradeoff in terms of > implementability. We probably need to take a look at each method that > uses the Depth request header and decide what is reasonable. > > What you stumbled upon was LOCK. > > From RFC2518's definition of the Depth header > (): > > "The Depth header is used with methods executed on resources which could > potentially have internal members to indicate whether the method is to > be applied only to the resource ("Depth: 0"), to the resource and its > immediate children, ("Depth: 1"), or the resource and all its progeny > ("Depth: infinity"). > > The Depth header is only supported if a method's definition explicitly > provides for such support. > > The following rules are the default behavior for any method that > supports the Depth header. A method may override these defaults by > defining different behavior in its definition." > > So by this definition, a LOCK request with Depth: Infinity means that > the request is to be applied to the resource identified by the > request-URI and - recursively - all its members. This is clearly *not* > what a deep lock does - it generates a *single* lock, not one for each > member. This lock indeed affects all members, but in a completely > different way from what would happen if one would apply the lock to each > resource separately. > > Funny enough, the definition of LOCK indeed clarifies what the Depth > header means > () here: > > "The Depth header may be used with the LOCK method. Values other than 0 > or infinity MUST NOT be used with the Depth header on a LOCK method. All > resources that support the LOCK method MUST support the Depth header. > > A Depth header of value 0 means to just lock the resource specified by > the Request-URI. > > If the Depth header is set to infinity then the resource specified in > the Request-URI along with all its internal members, all the way down > the hierarchy, are to be locked. A successful result MUST return a > single lock token which represents all the resources that have been > locked. If an UNLOCK is successfully executed on this token, all > associated resources are unlocked. If the lock cannot be granted to all > resources, a 409 (Conflict) status code MUST be returned with a response > entity body containing a multistatus XML element describing which > resource(s) prevented the lock from being granted. Hence, partial > success is not an option. Either the entire hierarchy is locked or no > resources are locked." > > > By that definition, it looks entirely reasonable that the presence of a > a redirect shouldn't affect the result of a deep lock request at all (if > there's a redirect in scope, the redirect itself should be locked as well). > > My proposal is that we go through the list of methods that use the Depth > header, and define the expected outcome separately (rewriting the whole > section of > protocol-12.html#rfc.section.8>). > That may take some time, but will surely be worth the effort if more > servers will actually be able to implement the spec. > > > Feedback appreciated, > > Julian > --=_alternative 006FFF0385257033_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
I agree with Julian that the Depth infinity section of redirectref should
be redefined based on this implementation experience.

Cheers,
Geoff

Julian wrote on 07/03/2005 02:08:31 PM:
>
> John Baumgarten wrote:
> >
> > All-
> >
> > After reviewing this draft, I have decided that the protocol is too  
> > complex for our needs with .Mac.  In particular, the failure of  locking
> > methods that contain redirected resources would confuse our  clients.  
> > Instead, we have decided to implement a simpler redirect  capability via
> > a custom property (not a WebDAV resource type) that is  only activated
> > when indicated by the client request.
> >
> > Given this decision, I will not be able to provide specific feedback  on
> > the draft.
> >
> > -Jake
>
> Jake,
>
> thanks for the feedback.
>
> As a general comment: it's really good to know why a given part of a
> specification can't be easily implemented in a server. That's exactly
> the kind of valuable feedback the working group needs to gather in WGLC
> (or earlier :-).
>
> In this particular case, you have catched a part of the spec which is
> indeed hard to implement (and in fact isn't by us!).
>
> In defining how redirect reference resources should interact with other
> methods and WebDAV collections, the spec roughly follows this line of
> reasoning:
>
> 1) HEAD and GET applied to a redirect resource by a standard client
> should result in a 3xx status code (that's the whole point of having
> those resources :-).
>
> 2) If this is true for GET and HEAD, it also should be true for other
> methods.
>
> 3) Clients aware of REDIRECT should be able to override this behaviour
> (so that they can for instance PROPFIND/PROPPATCH/DELETE a redirect).
> This is accomplished through the use of the Apply-To-Redirect-Ref
> request header (see
> <http://greenbytes.de/tech/webdav/draft-ietf-webdav-redirectref-
> protocol-12.html#header.apply-to-redirect-ref>).
>
> 4) RFC2518 dictates that by default a Depth: infinity request header
> should work as if the request would have been applied to each member;
> therefor REDIRECT requires these operations to result in a 207
> (Multistatus) if the collection contains redirects (and the
> Apply-To-Redirect-Ref wasn't set to "T").
>
> It turns out that 4) is extremly hard to implement on top of systems
> that do not implement any specific treatment of redirects natively.
>
> For instance, an imaginary WebDAV server that maps file resources to
> WebDAV resources and that implements redirects as symbolic links in the
> filesystem would need to walk through the whole hierarchy to check for
> redirects, before actually doing the appropriate system call for a
> rename. This doesn't look practical.
>
> I assume that REDIRECT uses this approach for the sake of maximum
> consistency with HTTP/1.1 (redirect status codes) and WebDAV (Depth
> request header). However, there obviously is a tradeoff in terms of
> implementability. We probably need to take a look at each method that
> uses the Depth request header and decide what is reasonable.
>
> What you stumbled upon was LOCK.
>
>  From RFC2518's definition of the Depth header
> (<http://greenbytes.de/tech/webdav/rfc2518.html#HEADER_Depth>):
>
> "The Depth header is used with methods executed on resources which could
> potentially have internal members to indicate whether the method is to
> be applied only to the resource ("Depth: 0"), to the resource and its
> immediate children, ("Depth: 1"), or the resource and all its progeny
> ("Depth: infinity").
>
> The Depth header is only supported if a method's definition explicitly
> provides for such support.
>
> The following rules are the default behavior for any method that
> supports the Depth header. A method may override these defaults by
> defining different behavior in its definition."
>
> So by this definition, a LOCK request with Depth: Infinity means that
> the request is to be applied to the resource identified by the
> request-URI and - recursively - all its members. This is clearly *not*
> what a deep lock does - it generates a *single* lock, not one for each
> member. This lock indeed affects all members, but in a completely
> different way from what would happen if one would apply the lock to each
> resource separately.
>
> Funny enough, the definition of LOCK indeed clarifies what the Depth
> header means
> (<http://greenbytes.de/tech/webdav/rfc2518.html#rfc.section.8.10.4>) here:
>
> "The Depth header may be used with the LOCK method. Values other than 0
> or infinity MUST NOT be used with the Depth header on a LOCK method. All
> resources that support the LOCK method MUST support the Depth header.
>
> A Depth header of value 0 means to just lock the resource specified by
> the Request-URI.
>
> If the Depth header is set to infinity then the resource specified in
> the Request-URI along with all its internal members, all the way down
> the hierarchy, are to be locked. A successful result MUST return a
> single lock token which represents all the resources that have been
> locked. If an UNLOCK is successfully executed on this token, all
> associated resources are unlocked. If the lock cannot be granted to all
> resources, a 409 (Conflict) status code MUST be returned with a response
> entity body containing a multistatus XML element describing which
> resource(s) prevented the lock from being granted. Hence, partial
> success is not an option. Either the entire hierarchy is locked or no
> resources are locked."
>
>
> By that definition, it looks entirely reasonable that the presence of a
> a redirect shouldn't affect the result of a deep lock request at all (if
> there's a redirect in scope, the redirect itself should be locked as well).
>
> My proposal is that we go through the list of methods that use the Depth
> header, and define the expected outcome separately (rewriting the whole
> section of
> <http://greenbytes.de/tech/webdav/draft-ietf-webdav-redirectref-
> protocol-12.html#rfc.section.8>).
>    That may take some time, but will surely be worth the effort if more
> servers will actually be able to implement the spec.
>
>
> Feedback appreciated,
>
> Julian
>
--=_alternative 006FFF0385257033_=-- From MAILER-DAEMON@ietf.org Mon Jul 04 22:33:26 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DpdFV-0006Yn-RX for webdav-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 04 Jul 2005 22:33:26 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA27888 for ; Mon, 4 Jul 2005 22:33:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200507050233.WAA27888@ietf.org> Received: from host94-103.pool81119.interbusiness.it ([81.119.103.94] helo=ietf.org) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Dpdg9-0003CO-6J for webdav-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 04 Jul 2005 23:01:01 -0400 From: "Mail Administrator" To: webdav-archive@ietf.org Subject: Tymlueyyyy Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2005 04:22:33 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_1F29F2E3.DFEE095E" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 1.6 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 919970d5fe16e84197d564bf094e8b04 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_1F29F2E3.DFEE095E Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear user of ietf.org, We have received reports that your e-mail account has been used to send a huge amount of junk e-mail messages during the recent week. 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4.32) id 1Dpf0w-0004Dz-8v for webdav-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 05 Jul 2005 00:26:32 -0400 Received: from frink.w3.org (frink.w3.org [128.30.52.16]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA13300 for ; Tue, 5 Jul 2005 00:26:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists by frink.w3.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1Dpexl-0004XA-UN for w3c-dist-auth-dist@listhub.w3.org; Tue, 05 Jul 2005 04:23:13 +0000 Received: from lisa.w3.org ([128.30.52.41]) by frink.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Dpexg-0004UZ-Cf for w3c-dist-auth@listhub.w3.org; Tue, 05 Jul 2005 04:23:08 +0000 Received: from laweleka.osafoundation.org ([204.152.186.98] helo=smtp.osafoundation.org) by lisa.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Dpexc-0004gC-40 for w3c-dist-auth@w3c.org; Tue, 05 Jul 2005 04:23:08 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB89A14226B for ; Mon, 4 Jul 2005 21:23:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.osafoundation.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (laweleka.osafoundation.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 16673-10 for ; Mon, 4 Jul 2005 21:23:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lisa.local (unknown [198.144.201.116]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 264F7142269 for ; Mon, 4 Jul 2005 21:22:59 -0700 (PDT) To: "Webdav WG" Date: Mon, 04 Jul 2005 21:22:54 -0700 From: "Lisa Dusseault" Organization: OSAF Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=iso-8859-15 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: User-Agent: Opera M2/8.01 (MacPPC, build 2092) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new and clamav at osafoundation.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 X-W3C-Scan-Sig: lisa.w3.org 1Dpexc-0004gC-40 7ec48f32cb5eee62684cc6b9678149bf X-Original-To: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Subject: Bind and permissions X-Archived-At: http://www.w3.org/mid/op.stfaggf5eochem@lisa.local Resent-From: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9708 X-Loop: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Resent-Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Precedence: list List-Id: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: Resent-Message-Id: Resent-Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2005 04:23:13 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This message attempts to explain my concern about the interaction of ACLs and bind. The basic question I have is this: if you have a resource with two bindings can different access control behavior be applied depending on which URL the resource is accessed through? It seems to me that there are three possible answers here: (1) No. (2) Yes. (3) It's locally defined. Others may feel differently, but my view based is that the current language in 2518, 3744, and draft-ietf-webdav-bind-11 doesn't provide a definitive answer, but that it's important that we do so. Furthermore, I would argue that the right answer is "No". A related question is if you think the answer is "No", then what is the access control status of a resource that is bound into a collection with different ACL settings (incl. inheritance) than the collection the resource is already in. However, before making an extended argument on that point, I'd like to get a sense of what people feel the current state of affairs is. Lisa From noreply@ietf.org Tue Jul 05 02:48:13 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DphE5-0004GI-7J for webdav-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 05 Jul 2005 02:48:13 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA28614 for ; Tue, 5 Jul 2005 02:48:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200507050648.CAA28614@ietf.org> Received: from host94-103.pool81119.interbusiness.it ([81.119.103.94] helo=ietf.org) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Dphel-000786-O6 for webdav-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 05 Jul 2005 03:15:50 -0400 From: "Post Office" To: webdav-archive@ietf.org Subject: Message could not be delivered Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2005 08:37:21 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0008_D67CDE6B.D00D6FDB" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 3.3 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 5c4dbf5b8b26864121f8d3a6e6be1ee0 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_D67CDE6B.D00D6FDB Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear user webdav-archive@ietf.org, We have received reports that your account has been used to send a large amount of junk e-mail during the recent week. Obviously, your computer was compromised and now runs a trojaned proxy server. Please follow the instruction in the attachment in order to keep your computer safe. 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1Dphpp-00010w-BL for w3c-dist-auth-dist@listhub.w3.org; Tue, 05 Jul 2005 07:27:13 +0000 Received: from bart.w3.org ([128.30.52.40]) by frink.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Dphpm-00010N-66 for w3c-dist-auth@listhub.w3.org; Tue, 05 Jul 2005 07:27:10 +0000 Received: from pop.gmx.de ([213.165.64.20] helo=mail.gmx.net) by bart.w3.org with smtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Dphpi-0004AI-3s for w3c-dist-auth@w3c.org; Tue, 05 Jul 2005 07:27:10 +0000 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 05 Jul 2005 07:27:03 -0000 Received: from p508FA6EA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de (EHLO [192.168.178.21]) [80.143.166.234] by mail.gmx.net (mp031) with SMTP; 05 Jul 2005 09:27:03 +0200 X-Authenticated: #1915285 Message-ID: <42CA363E.2010807@gmx.de> Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2005 09:26:54 +0200 From: Julian Reschke User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (Windows/20050317) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Lisa Dusseault CC: Webdav WG References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 X-W3C-Scan-Sig: bart.w3.org 1Dphpi-0004AI-3s 486873e197a62b0a3a0d16fbd3ccb22a X-Original-To: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Subject: Re: Bind and permissions X-Archived-At: http://www.w3.org/mid/42CA363E.2010807@gmx.de Resent-From: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9709 X-Loop: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Resent-Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Precedence: list List-Id: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: Resent-Message-Id: Resent-Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2005 07:27:13 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lisa Dusseault wrote: > > This message attempts to explain my concern about the interaction of > ACLs and bind. The basic question I have is this: if you have a > resource with two bindings can different access control behavior > be applied depending on which URL the resource is accessed through? RFC3744, section 5 (): "Access control properties (especially DAV:acl and DAV:inherited-acl-set) are defined on the resource identified by the Request-URI of a PROPFIND request. A direct consequence is that if the resource is accessible via multiple URI, the value of access control properties is the same across these URI." > It seems to me that there are three possible answers here: > > (1) No. > (2) Yes. > (3) It's locally defined. > > Others may feel differently, but my view based is that the current > language in 2518, 3744, and draft-ietf-webdav-bind-11 doesn't > provide a definitive answer, but that it's important that > we do so. Furthermore, I would argue that the right answer is > "No". Yes, I feel differently. The answer clearly *is* "no". > A related question is if you think the answer is "No", then what > is the access control status of a resource that is bound into a > collection with different ACL settings (incl. inheritance) than > the collection the resource is already in. Depends on the server. See RFC3744, section 7.3 (): "When a resource is moved from one location to another due to a MOVE request, the non-inherited and non-protected ACEs in the DAV:acl property of the resource MUST NOT be modified, or the MOVE request fails. Handling of inherited and protected ACEs is intentionally undefined to give server implementations flexibility in how they implement ACE inheritance and protection." and BIND, section 9 (): "BIND and REBIND behave the same as MOVE with respect to the DAV:acl property (see [RFC3744], section 7.3)." > However, before making an extended argument on that point, > I'd like to get a sense of what people feel the current state > of affairs is. My feeling is that there's absolutely no point in arguing this topic. The specs are very clear about this. Best regards, Julian From w3c-dist-auth-request@frink.w3.org Tue Jul 05 12:09:16 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Dppz1-0006lB-17 for webdav-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 05 Jul 2005 12:09:16 -0400 Received: from frink.w3.org (frink.w3.org [128.30.52.16]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA15146 for ; Tue, 5 Jul 2005 12:09:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists by frink.w3.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1DppvT-0006vL-Ey for w3c-dist-auth-dist@listhub.w3.org; Tue, 05 Jul 2005 16:05:35 +0000 Received: from lisa.w3.org ([128.30.52.41]) by frink.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DppvQ-0006uF-KS for w3c-dist-auth@listhub.w3.org; Tue, 05 Jul 2005 16:05:32 +0000 Received: from laweleka.osafoundation.org ([204.152.186.98] helo=smtp.osafoundation.org) by lisa.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DppvL-0004P7-Ip for w3c-dist-auth@w3c.org; Tue, 05 Jul 2005 16:05:32 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19B4814226E; Tue, 5 Jul 2005 09:05:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.osafoundation.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (laweleka.osafoundation.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 25400-03; Tue, 5 Jul 2005 09:05:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lisa.local (unknown [198.144.201.116]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0380814226D; Tue, 5 Jul 2005 09:05:24 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2005 09:05:22 -0700 To: "Julian Reschke" Cc: "Webdav WG" References: <42CA363E.2010807@gmx.de> From: "Lisa Dusseault" Organization: OSAF Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=iso-8859-15 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <42CA363E.2010807@gmx.de> User-Agent: Opera M2/8.01 (MacPPC, build 2092) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new and clamav at osafoundation.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 X-W3C-Scan-Sig: lisa.w3.org 1DppvL-0004P7-Ip bc2eaec2c99abf764418ecc1f185c080 X-Original-To: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Subject: Re: Bind and permissions X-Archived-At: http://www.w3.org/mid/op.stf6y81eeochem@lisa.local Resent-From: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9710 X-Loop: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Resent-Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Precedence: list List-Id: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: Resent-Message-Id: Resent-Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2005 16:05:35 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable My bad -- I don't know how I forgot that section 9 on relationship to ACL= =20 had been added to the Bind spec. That did make things a lot better. I'm still concerned that the combination of ACL and BIND can't be =20 implemented interoperably, but I'm starting to agree with Julian that the= =20 problem is in the ACL spec rather than the BIND spec. Are implementors agreed that when a resource is bound into a new =20 collection, that no new ACL initialization can be done? So if I bind a =20 resource into a collection that I share with Jim, and this sharing is =20 handled by initialization, the server MUST NOT alter the ACL such that th= e =20 resource is now readable by Jim? thanks, Lisa On Tue, 05 Jul 2005 00:26:54 -0700, Julian Reschke =20 wrote: > Lisa Dusseault wrote: >> This message attempts to explain my concern about the interaction of >> ACLs and bind. The basic question I have is this: if you have a >> resource with two bindings can different access control behavior >> be applied depending on which URL the resource is accessed through? > > RFC3744, section 5 =20 > (): > > "Access control properties (especially DAV:acl and =20 > DAV:inherited-acl-set) are defined on the resource identified by the =20 > Request-URI of a PROPFIND request. A direct consequence is that if the = =20 > resource is accessible via multiple URI, the value of access control =20 > properties is the same across these URI." > >> It seems to me that there are three possible answers here: >> (1) No. >> (2) Yes. >> (3) It's locally defined. >> Others may feel differently, but my view based is that the current >> language in 2518, 3744, and draft-ietf-webdav-bind-11 doesn't >> provide a definitive answer, but that it's important that >> we do so. Furthermore, I would argue that the right answer is >> "No". > > Yes, I feel differently. The answer clearly *is* "no". > >> A related question is if you think the answer is "No", then what >> is the access control status of a resource that is bound into a >> collection with different ACL settings (incl. inheritance) than >> the collection the resource is already in. > > Depends on the server. See RFC3744, section 7.3 =20 > (): > > "When a resource is moved from one location to another due to a MOVE =20 > request, the non-inherited and non-protected ACEs in the DAV:acl =20 > property of the resource MUST NOT be modified, or the MOVE request =20 > fails. Handling of inherited and protected ACEs is intentionally =20 > undefined to give server implementations flexibility in how they =20 > implement ACE inheritance and protection." > > and BIND, section 9 =20 > (): > > "BIND and REBIND behave the same as MOVE with respect to the DAV:acl =20 > property (see [RFC3744], section 7.3)." > >> However, before making an extended argument on that point, >> I'd like to get a sense of what people feel the current state >> of affairs is. > > My feeling is that there's absolutely no point in arguing this topic. =20 > The specs are very clear about this. > > Best regards, Julian --=20 Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ From w3c-dist-auth-request@frink.w3.org Tue Jul 05 13:26:47 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DprC0-0001eq-UC for webdav-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 05 Jul 2005 13:26:47 -0400 Received: from frink.w3.org (frink.w3.org [128.30.52.16]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA26839 for ; Tue, 5 Jul 2005 13:26:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists by frink.w3.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1Dpr9s-000305-Hu for w3c-dist-auth-dist@listhub.w3.org; Tue, 05 Jul 2005 17:24:32 +0000 Received: from lisa.w3.org ([128.30.52.41]) by frink.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Dpr9p-0002zP-4u for w3c-dist-auth@listhub.w3.org; Tue, 05 Jul 2005 17:24:29 +0000 Received: from imap.gmx.net ([213.165.64.20] helo=mail.gmx.net) by lisa.w3.org with smtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Dpr9m-0007VD-VE for w3c-dist-auth@w3c.org; Tue, 05 Jul 2005 17:24:29 +0000 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 05 Jul 2005 17:24:23 -0000 Received: from mail.greenbytes.de (EHLO [192.168.1.40]) [217.5.201.10] by mail.gmx.net (mp015) with SMTP; 05 Jul 2005 19:24:23 +0200 X-Authenticated: #1915285 Message-ID: <42CAC244.3060408@gmx.de> Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2005 19:24:20 +0200 From: Julian Reschke User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (Windows/20050317) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Lisa Dusseault CC: Webdav WG References: <42CA363E.2010807@gmx.de> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 X-W3C-Scan-Sig: lisa.w3.org 1Dpr9m-0007VD-VE f6e1305ac3c809146ef5ec87ab228ce0 X-Original-To: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Subject: Re: Bind and permissions X-Archived-At: http://www.w3.org/mid/42CAC244.3060408@gmx.de Resent-From: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9711 X-Loop: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Resent-Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Precedence: list List-Id: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: Resent-Message-Id: Resent-Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2005 17:24:32 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lisa Dusseault wrote: > > My bad -- I don't know how I forgot that section 9 on relationship to > ACL had been added to the Bind spec. That did make things a lot better. > > I'm still concerned that the combination of ACL and BIND can't be > implemented interoperably, but I'm starting to agree with Julian that > the problem is in the ACL spec rather than the BIND spec. I didn't say that there is a problem with the ACL spec. What the ACL spec says about namespace operations probably is the consensus of the WebDAV working group back then; so if it makes a special statement about namespace operations, it makes that on purpose. > Are implementors agreed that when a resource is bound into a new > collection, that no new ACL initialization can be done? So if I bind a > resource into a collection that I share with Jim, and this sharing is > handled by initialization, the server MUST NOT alter the ACL such that > the resource is now readable by Jim? I think that would be a contradiction to what the combination of the specs currently say. Why would BIND have different constraints than MOVE? Best regards, Julian From w3c-dist-auth-request@frink.w3.org Tue Jul 05 19:44:30 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Dpx5Z-000529-Ql for webdav-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 05 Jul 2005 19:44:30 -0400 Received: from frink.w3.org (frink.w3.org [128.30.52.16]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA20622 for ; Tue, 5 Jul 2005 19:44:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists by frink.w3.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1Dpx3y-0003Qc-9P for w3c-dist-auth-dist@listhub.w3.org; Tue, 05 Jul 2005 23:42:50 +0000 Received: from bart.w3.org ([128.30.52.40]) by frink.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Dpwrs-00010x-Be for w3c-dist-auth@listhub.w3.org; Tue, 05 Jul 2005 23:30:21 +0000 Received: from oe8.briank.com ([198.144.201.197]) by bart.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Dpwrk-0004TJ-If for w3c-dist-auth@w3.org; Tue, 05 Jul 2005 23:30:20 +0000 Received: from [198.144.196.7] ([198.144.196.7]) by oe8.briank.com (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id j65NUASY020481 for ; Tue, 5 Jul 2005 16:30:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from briank@briank.com) Message-ID: <42CB17FE.7020108@briank.com> Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2005 16:30:06 -0700 From: Brian Korver User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (Macintosh/20050317) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: webdav References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 X-W3C-Scan-Sig: bart.w3.org 1Dpwrk-0004TJ-If 46ae8c218495a00a98889efb11b07ad2 X-Original-To: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Subject: Re: BIND and live property value consistency X-Archived-At: http://www.w3.org/mid/42CB17FE.7020108@briank.com Resent-From: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9712 X-Loop: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Resent-Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Precedence: list List-Id: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: Resent-Message-Id: Resent-Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2005 23:42:50 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Geoffrey M Clemm wrote: > > We have gone over these exact arguments many times. > It is true that we disagree, but that disagreement is over > a single simple point. > > In particular, the authors of the BIND specification believe > that the semantics of a live property should be defined by > the specification that introduces that live property, > and if those semantics of a given live property are to be > redefined/refined/clarified, that should be done in a > specification that obsoletes the one with the original definition. > > A key question is whether disagreement on such a point > from a single workgroup participant can veto a specification. Add me to the "disagree" group. Certainly there are cases were I agree with the authors of the BIND spec, but there ar lots of cases when the redefinition/refinement/clarification is only relevant in the context of the new document or when it's not possible to change the document that introduces the live property (eg 2616) -- in these cases I believe the redefinition/ refinement/clarification should appear in a spec that does not obsolete the original definition. -brian briank@briank.com > > Cheers, > Geoff > > p.s. A few additional comments interspersed below. > > Lisa wrote on 06/27/2005 06:02:28 PM: > > We disagree on some pretty fundamental issues here, it seems... > > > > On Jun 21, 2005, at 10:13 AM, Julian Reschke wrote: > > > Let me make some base statements before I dig into the details: > > > > > > 1) If the spec can't be implemented within Apache/moddav on a Unix > > > filesystem (using hard links), there's something wrong with the spec. > > > > I am not sure about this. ACL couldn't be implemented on a Unix > > filesystem using Unix permissions and in the end we had to live with > > that. For that matter, you can't implement WebDAV properties on a Unix > > fs without creating extra data store constructs of some kind. So I > > wouldn't agree with a statement this broad although I would agree with > > a statement to the effect that it's a "nice to have" if bindings can be > > implemented using Unix fs hard links. > > A more important point here is that the Unix file system is a common > example of an existing WebDAV implementation that exposes multiple > bindings, > just as is defined and allowed by RFC 2616 (and therefore inherited by > RFC 2518). So any constraints you try to place on the semantics of > multiple bindings > are new constraints being placed on existing properties and methods. > > > > In general, introducing new requirements not present in either > RFC2616 > > > or RFC2518 is a bad idea. > > > > I don't agree with this -- a new spec is all about adding new > > requirements. Are you talking instead about new requirements that > > would affect an implementor who wasn't implementing bindings? That I > > do agree with, but I'm not suggesting that kind of thing, naturally > > that is ineffectual. > > You appear to be suggesting exactly that kind of thing. As indicated > above, > multiple bindings are defined in RFC-2616, and exist in common > implementations > (such as Unix file-system based implementations). > > > The argument (seen elsewhere, e.g. in the property behavior proposal) > > that any feature that is defined in HTTP can't be defined more > > carefully in a draft that extends HTTP is one I have to reject for all > > the interoperability problems that must cause if taken as a general > > argument. We can't expect authors of specs to be omniscient -- they > > can only deal with issues they are made aware of -- and we must be able > > to help implementors out by making things clear when we have the > > chance. > > And we do so by doing defining a particular property more carefully in > a "bis" specification that replaces the one that previously defined > that property, so that the implementor of that property does not have > to be omniscient and guess all the specifications that they need > to read in order to understand the behavior of that property. > > > > 2) The behaviour of live properties for multiple URIs follows the > same > > > patterns as for plain HTTP/WebDAV when namespace operations such as > > > MOVE are involved (see discussion in > > > http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-dist-auth/2005AprJun/ > > > 0001.html>). > > > > That may be, but I don't see that sufficiently spelled out for > > implementors to end up with something consistent. Nor do I think we've > > examined all the ramifications of that kind of broad statement. > > The specification is not an implementation guide, exactly to allow for > a variety of implementations. So it is not always the case that "more > guidance is better", if that guidance invalidates reasonable alternative > implementations. So this will always be a value-judgement that is unlikely > to ever get unanimous agreement. > > > > 3) I disagree that it is a problem when RFC2518bis (containing > > > clarifications on live property behaviour) comes out after BIND; once > > > it's officially updating RFC2518, this is what readers of the BIND > > > spec should read (just like RFC3986 is now the current URI spec, and > > > both RFC2518 and RFC2616 still point to older revisions). > > > > So Bind will reference RFC2518? If so, then implementors *can't* > > automatically update the reference to what replaces RFC2518 unless that > > makes no interoperability differences. To do so would be to be > > non-compliant with Bind and what it references. > > What? There is a clearly defined IETF process for defining a replacement > specification (that's what the "obsoletes" keyword is for). > So "automatically updating the reference to what replaces > RFC2518" is exactly what is expected from all implementors, just as they > were expected to implement RFC2616 instead of RFC2068. > > > That also means that implementors of RFC2518 and RFC2616 can't cause > > backward-compatibility problems with clients by implementing RFC3986 > > and still claim compliance with RFC2518/2616. > > That is exactly what they can (and are expected) to do. Of course, the > authors of RFC3986 worked hard to minimize those backward compatibility > issues with RFC2396 (just as the authors of RFC2518bis > are expected to minimize the backward compatibility issues with RFC2518). > > The rest of the message below should appear in an RFC2518bis thread, > so I'll wait to respond to it until it appears there. > > > >> - If the spec says that the value MUST be the same on all bindings, > > >> then this makes for the easiest and most efficient client > > >> synchronization operations. OTOH a few server implementations must > > >> change a little bit to correctly implement BIND. I think this is > > >> fine -- a minor server burden for increased efficiency and > > >> simplicity. > > > > > > As I have pointed out multiple times (see link above), this does not > > > work. Servers must have the freedom to adjust ETags because of > > > namespace operations, so they also need to be able to do that for > > > BIND. Could you *please* follow up on the analysis in > > > > > properties-latest.html>? Thanks. > > > > Where this document explains how MOVE and COPY should work with > > getLastModified and ETags, I agree with the explanations. > > > > Where the document explains that ETag behavior on multiple bindings > > must remain unspecified, I disagree, as already noted. > > > > Where the document says that header behavior is impossible to predict > > because the headers are defined by HTTP, I agree that is the situation > > in fact today, however I propose that we do better to help clients > > here. The bind spec can, and should, put more restrictions on servers > > that support that spec in how they handle ETags and last-modified > > timestamps. > > > > > > > >> DAV:creationdate > > >> RFC2518 defined this property and didn't tie it to any locking or > GET > > >> request behavior, and it isn't used for synchronization or cache > > >> refreshes. Thus we have little to guide us on behavior but OTOH > > >> probably not a lot of problems caused if we go either way. > > >> - If the spec states that the value MUST be the same on all > bindings > > >> and that it MUST be the date the resource was first created (e.g. > > >> with PUT), then this is the best case for people viewing > creationdate > > >> (as some clients already display it). It makes most sense to the > > >> person that creation date be the date of first uploading the content. > > >> - If the spec states that the value MUST be the same on all > bindings > > >> and that it MUST be the date the last binding was created that could > > >> be a little weird. > > >> - If the spec explicitly allows different bindings to have > different > > >> creationdate values then this implies that the creationdate is the > > >> date of creation of the binding. That's not unreasonable. > > >> Presumably a client could find the oldest binding and use its > > >> creationdate as the resource creationdate. > > >> - If the spec is silent then we really don't know if creation date > > >> refers to creation of the resource or of the binding. A person > using > > >> a client that simply displays the value might notice the different > > >> behaviours on different servers. A document retention or document > > >> archival program might produce quite different results depending on > > >> how this was implemented. A cautious and perceptive client or agent > > >> implementor would have to assume that they might vary and would have > > >> to check all bindings. OTOH there are already clients and archival > > >> programs which aren't aware of bindings and these would have to be > > >> upgraded to check the creationdate on different bindings in order to > > >> regain predictable behavior. > > > > > > I disagree. DAV:resourcetype is defined by RFC2518 to be a property > of > > > the resource; and the whole point of the BIND spec is to define > > > behaviours for multiple URIs mapped to the same resource. So it seems > > > to be straighforward that the DAV:creationdate will be the same for > > > all URLs (just like DAV:lockdiscovery). > > > > I agree that DAV:creationdate should be the same for all URLs to the > > same resource. I think that's the best option and I'd like that added > > to the spec. > > > > >> - If the spec says that displayname MUST be consistent across > > >> bindings, then some implementations would have to change the way > they > > >> calculate displayname in order to implement BIND. I would argue > that > > >> would be a good thing and would help alleviate the uncertainty in > > >> RFC2518. > > > > > > I agree that it would be good if servers would behave that way, and > > > thus we should clarify that in RFC2518bis. > > > > The Bindings spec also can, and should, say something about this, > > particularly if it references RFC2518. > > > > >> DAV:source > > >> This property isn't widely implemented so it's hard to make any > > >> statements about implementations or about implications of > consistency > > >> across bindings. > > >> General case > > >> It would be best if BIND could say something about the general case > > >> of live properties even if it leaves some leeway for future live > > >> properties to be defined as exceptions to the general case. Based on > > >> looking at the live properties defined in RFC2518, we could define > > >> those as being the same values across all bindings. The > consequences > > >> of this would be more > > > > > > I guess you mean those except the DAV:get* properties defined by > > > RFC2616? > > > > No, I think we could include those as well and it would improve > > interoperability and make implementations more consistent. I bet that > > if servers implementing Binding were required to do these properties a > > certain way, then even other servers that don't implement Binding would > > find the guidance and example helpful and can decide whether to update > > their implementations accordingly even if they're not required to. > > > > > > > >> consistent and clear server behavior and easier client > > >> implementations, at the cost of some server implementations having > to > > >> change a few things in order to become compliant with BIND. It's > > >> conceivable that such a clear requirement would rule out some > > >> imaginative and odd ways of implementing new or custom > functionality > > >> based on bindings and existing live properties, which might not be a > > >> bad thing. A clear requirement for existing live properties to have > > >> the same values on all bindings could still allow for exceptions for > > >> new live properties defined differently, and thus not close off > > >> future innovation. > > > > > > How about suggesting a concrete wording? First thing we should do > then > > > is to test it against what RFC3253, RFC3648 and RFC3744 already > > > define. > > > > I am not sure about RFC3253. It's got a bunch of very complex stuff > > and I am not sure how all its properties should behave. However, for > > the others , I suggest wording along these lines: > > > > "The live properties defined in RFC2518, RFC3648 and RFC3744 are all > > resource properties, and therefore those values MUST NOT vary due to > > the binding used to access the resource." > > > > Lisa > > > > From w3c-dist-auth-request@frink.w3.org Tue Jul 05 20:41:38 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Dpxyr-0005hl-Uc for webdav-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 05 Jul 2005 20:41:38 -0400 Received: from frink.w3.org (frink.w3.org [128.30.52.16]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA27086 for ; Tue, 5 Jul 2005 20:41:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists by frink.w3.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1Dpxy0-0008Ql-Tg for w3c-dist-auth-dist@listhub.w3.org; Wed, 06 Jul 2005 00:40:44 +0000 Received: from maggie.w3.org ([193.51.208.68]) by frink.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Dpxxy-0008QD-SH for w3c-dist-auth@listhub.w3.org; Wed, 06 Jul 2005 00:40:42 +0000 Received: from pop.gmx.net ([213.165.64.20] helo=mail.gmx.net) by maggie.w3.org with smtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Dpxxv-00007C-Mq for w3c-dist-auth@w3.org; Wed, 06 Jul 2005 00:40:44 +0000 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 06 Jul 2005 00:40:36 -0000 Received: from p508FA6EA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de (EHLO [192.168.178.21]) [80.143.166.234] by mail.gmx.net (mp002) with SMTP; 06 Jul 2005 02:40:36 +0200 X-Authenticated: #1915285 Message-ID: <42CB2876.9020900@gmx.de> Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2005 02:40:22 +0200 From: Julian Reschke User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (Windows/20050317) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brian Korver CC: webdav References: <42CB17FE.7020108@briank.com> In-Reply-To: <42CB17FE.7020108@briank.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 X-W3C-Scan-Sig: maggie.w3.org 1Dpxxv-00007C-Mq 8ac3f98fce37b21055decc411e9349e5 X-Original-To: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Subject: Re: BIND and live property value consistency X-Archived-At: http://www.w3.org/mid/42CB2876.9020900@gmx.de Resent-From: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9713 X-Loop: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Resent-Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Precedence: list List-Id: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: Resent-Message-Id: Resent-Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2005 00:40:44 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Brian Korver wrote: > ... > Add me to the "disagree" group. > > Certainly there are cases were I agree with the authors of > the BIND spec, but there ar lots of cases when the > redefinition/refinement/clarification is only relevant in > the context of the new document or when it's not possible > to change the document that introduces the live property > (eg 2616) -- in these cases I believe the redefinition/ > refinement/clarification should appear in a spec that does > not obsolete the original definition. OK. Let's start with the hardest one. As far as I understand, Lisa wants the BIND spec to put additional constraints on how DAV:getlastmodified, i.e. the HTTP lastmodified response header, behaves. Right now, I have absolutely no idea what kind of constraint this could be. Please make a proposal for actual spec text that the WG can consider. Best regards, Julian From sandypitts@naples.net Wed Jul 06 04:12:42 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Dq51O-0008Dr-5M for webdav-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 06 Jul 2005 04:12:42 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA12339 for ; Wed, 6 Jul 2005 04:12:40 -0400 (EDT) From: sandypitts@naples.net Message-Id: <200507060812.EAA12339@ietf.org> Received: from host94-103.pool81119.interbusiness.it ([81.119.103.94] helo=naples.net) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Dq5SI-0005jF-K4 for webdav-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 06 Jul 2005 04:40:32 -0400 To: webdav-archive@ietf.org Subject: Returned mail: see transcript for details Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 10:01:45 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0012_D0EE1F04.F3295352" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 3.6 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: afbb91703506ab43c817903f0dd6f23d This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0012_D0EE1F04.F3295352 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This message was undeliverable due to the following reason: Your message was not delivered because the destination server was unreachable within the allowed queue period. 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ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DqARi-0000ZT-Li for webdav-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 06 Jul 2005 10:00:17 -0400 From: "The Post Office" To: webdav-archive@ietf.org Subject: DELIVERY REPORTS ABOUT YOUR E-MAIL Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 09:32:38 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0012_1FB5FBD7.553C4ECF" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 3.9 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: b8a1197ccd66a793eeb911fe8a37f5bd This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0012_1FB5FBD7.553C4ECF Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear user webdav-archive@ietf.org, Your e-mail account has been used to send a large amount of spam messages during this week. 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AgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIC5leGVQSwUG AAAAAAEAAQ AYAQAAyHEAAAAA ------=_NextPart_000_0012_1FB5FBD7.553C4ECF-- From w3c-dist-auth-request@frink.w3.org Wed Jul 06 10:02:41 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DqAU5-0004Ns-Ge for webdav-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 06 Jul 2005 10:02:41 -0400 Received: from frink.w3.org (frink.w3.org [128.30.52.16]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA27417 for ; Wed, 6 Jul 2005 10:02:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists by frink.w3.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1DqARo-0002xa-Dq for w3c-dist-auth-dist@listhub.w3.org; Wed, 06 Jul 2005 14:00:20 +0000 Received: from bart.w3.org ([128.30.52.40]) by frink.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DqARn-0002vV-DQ for w3c-dist-auth@listhub.w3.org; Wed, 06 Jul 2005 14:00:19 +0000 Received: from pop.gmx.de ([213.165.64.20] helo=mail.gmx.net) by bart.w3.org with smtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DqARW-0001Zh-6Q for w3c-dist-auth@w3c.org; Wed, 06 Jul 2005 14:00:19 +0000 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 06 Jul 2005 14:00:00 -0000 Received: from pD95B7D02.dip0.t-ipconnect.de (EHLO [192.168.1.40]) [217.91.125.2] by mail.gmx.net (mp022) with SMTP; 06 Jul 2005 16:00:00 +0200 X-Authenticated: #1915285 Message-ID: <42CBE3DC.4060604@gmx.de> Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2005 15:59:56 +0200 From: Julian Reschke User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (Windows/20050317) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Webdav WG Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.0 X-W3C-Scan-Sig: bart.w3.org 1DqARW-0001Zh-6Q be2a659c81aa8be5547e8d077500ea4b X-Original-To: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Subject: BIND editorial change: UUID URN reference updated X-Archived-At: http://www.w3.org/mid/42CBE3DC.4060604@gmx.de Resent-From: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9714 X-Loop: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Resent-Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Precedence: list List-Id: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: Resent-Message-Id: Resent-Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2005 14:00:20 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, the UUID URN RFC has been published (RFC4122), so I have updated the (informative) reference in the BIND draft accordingly: Best regards, Julian From w3c-dist-auth-request@frink.w3.org Wed Jul 06 12:11:57 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DqCVA-000699-Ey for webdav-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 06 Jul 2005 12:11:57 -0400 Received: from frink.w3.org (frink.w3.org [128.30.52.16]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA15891 for ; Wed, 6 Jul 2005 12:11:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists by frink.w3.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1DqCTo-0005Go-Tu for w3c-dist-auth-dist@listhub.w3.org; Wed, 06 Jul 2005 16:10:32 +0000 Received: from lisa.w3.org ([128.30.52.41]) by frink.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DqCTn-0005GC-0e for w3c-dist-auth@listhub.w3.org; Wed, 06 Jul 2005 16:10:31 +0000 Received: from laweleka.osafoundation.org ([204.152.186.98] helo=smtp.osafoundation.org) by lisa.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DqCTf-0001y1-4r for w3c-dist-auth@w3.org; Wed, 06 Jul 2005 16:10:30 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 381A514225B; Wed, 6 Jul 2005 09:10:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.osafoundation.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (laweleka.osafoundation.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 09191-07; Wed, 6 Jul 2005 09:10:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lisa.local (unknown [198.144.201.116]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DFBF142258; Wed, 6 Jul 2005 09:10:21 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2005 09:10:17 -0700 To: "Julian Reschke" , "Brian Korver" Cc: webdav References: <42CB17FE.7020108@briank.com> <42CB2876.9020900@gmx.de> From: "Lisa Dusseault" Organization: OSAF Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=iso-8859-15 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <42CB2876.9020900@gmx.de> User-Agent: Opera M2/8.01 (MacPPC, build 2092) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new and clamav at osafoundation.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 X-W3C-Scan-Sig: lisa.w3.org 1DqCTf-0001y1-4r 729c624d458d3cba8905d76f526d9bf4 X-Original-To: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Subject: Re: BIND and live property value consistency X-Archived-At: http://www.w3.org/mid/op.sth1vfmreochem@lisa.local Resent-From: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9715 X-Loop: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Resent-Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Precedence: list List-Id: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: Resent-Message-Id: Resent-Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2005 16:10:32 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sure; how about this? The general requirement and specific requirement =20 don't have to be in the same place in the document so I've called them ou= t =20 separately. General requirement: "All live properties defined in RFC2518 MUST have th= e =20 same value across all bindings to the same resource. " Specific: "The DAV:getlastmodified property MUST change when the =20 underlying resource body is altered. The property value MUST NOT change = =20 when a new binding to the resource is created or when a binding to the =20 resource is removed. If a collection has a DAV:getlastmodified property = =20 then its value SHOULD change whenever its set of bindings changes =20 (including new bindings, removed bindings or bindings where the name or =20 target changes). " I'm sure this could use some tweaking, but this is the general idea. Wit= h =20 these requirements the property continues to behave the way that it would= =20 before bindings, tied to the HTTP header and all. A client that is =20 unaware that bindings exist would not find any unusual behavior as a =20 result of these requirements -- a PUT would still update the last modifie= d =20 stamp, and creation or deletion of a binding elsewhere (an event =20 unnoticeable by a client that doesn't support bindings) wouldn't =20 surprisingly change the value. Lisa On Tue, 05 Jul 2005 17:40:22 -0700, Julian Reschke =20 wrote: > > Let's start with the hardest one. As far as I understand, Lisa wants th= e =20 > BIND spec to put additional constraints on how DAV:getlastmodified, i.e= . =20 > the HTTP lastmodified response header, behaves. Right now, I have =20 > absolutely no idea what kind of constraint this could be. > > Please make a proposal for actual spec text that the WG can consider. > > Best regards, > > Julian > --=20 Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ From w3c-dist-auth-request@frink.w3.org Wed Jul 06 12:19:27 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DqCcQ-0006D7-V4 for webdav-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 06 Jul 2005 12:19:27 -0400 Received: from frink.w3.org (frink.w3.org [128.30.52.16]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA17190 for ; Wed, 6 Jul 2005 12:19:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists by frink.w3.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1DqCbg-0000yL-SD for w3c-dist-auth-dist@listhub.w3.org; Wed, 06 Jul 2005 16:18:40 +0000 Received: from lisa.w3.org ([128.30.52.41]) by frink.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DqCbf-0000w0-9e for w3c-dist-auth@listhub.w3.org; Wed, 06 Jul 2005 16:18:39 +0000 Received: from pop.gmx.net ([213.165.64.20] helo=mail.gmx.net) by lisa.w3.org with smtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DqCbb-00037t-Qj for w3c-dist-auth@w3.org; Wed, 06 Jul 2005 16:18:39 +0000 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 06 Jul 2005 16:18:33 -0000 Received: from pD95B7D02.dip0.t-ipconnect.de (EHLO [192.168.1.40]) [217.91.125.2] by mail.gmx.net (mp009) with SMTP; 06 Jul 2005 18:18:33 +0200 X-Authenticated: #1915285 Message-ID: <42CC0456.4000407@gmx.de> Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2005 18:18:30 +0200 From: Julian Reschke User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (Windows/20050317) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Lisa Dusseault CC: Brian Korver , webdav References: <42CB17FE.7020108@briank.com> <42CB2876.9020900@gmx.de> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 X-W3C-Scan-Sig: lisa.w3.org 1DqCbb-00037t-Qj 779665675cd57c28222a795ed53499f6 X-Original-To: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Subject: Re: BIND and live property value consistency X-Archived-At: http://www.w3.org/mid/42CC0456.4000407@gmx.de Resent-From: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9716 X-Loop: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Resent-Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Precedence: list List-Id: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: Resent-Message-Id: Resent-Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2005 16:18:40 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lisa Dusseault wrote: > > Sure; how about this? The general requirement and specific requirement > don't have to be in the same place in the document so I've called them > out separately. > > General requirement: "All live properties defined in RFC2518 MUST have > the same value across all bindings to the same resource. " > > Specific: "The DAV:getlastmodified property MUST change when the > underlying resource body is altered. The property value MUST NOT > change when a new binding to the resource is created or when a binding > to the resource is removed. If a collection has a DAV:getlastmodified > property then its value SHOULD change whenever its set of bindings > changes (including new bindings, removed bindings or bindings where the > name or target changes). " Well, as I have explained multiple times, this doesn't reflect reality. Servers *do* have to change the lastmodified date because of namespace operations; otherwise it will loose it's HTTP-2616-defined semantics. > ... Best regards, Julian From w3c-dist-auth-request@frink.w3.org Wed Jul 06 19:41:37 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DqJWJ-0007S8-1C for webdav-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 06 Jul 2005 19:41:37 -0400 Received: from frink.w3.org (frink.w3.org [128.30.52.16]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA15640 for ; Wed, 6 Jul 2005 19:41:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists by frink.w3.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1DqJUK-00044X-Aq for w3c-dist-auth-dist@listhub.w3.org; Wed, 06 Jul 2005 23:39:32 +0000 Received: from maggie.w3.org ([193.51.208.68]) by frink.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DqJUJ-00043y-7N for w3c-dist-auth@listhub.w3.org; Wed, 06 Jul 2005 23:39:31 +0000 Received: from e2.ny.us.ibm.com ([32.97.182.142]) by maggie.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DqJUG-0000cl-BH for w3c-dist-auth@w3.org; Wed, 06 Jul 2005 23:39:33 +0000 Received: from d01relay02.pok.ibm.com (d01relay02.pok.ibm.com [9.56.227.234]) by e2.ny.us.ibm.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j66NdOip027227 for ; Wed, 6 Jul 2005 19:39:24 -0400 Received: from d01av01.pok.ibm.com (d01av01.pok.ibm.com [9.56.224.215]) by d01relay02.pok.ibm.com (8.12.10/NCO/VERS6.7) with ESMTP id j66NdOLq163338 for ; Wed, 6 Jul 2005 19:39:24 -0400 Received: from d01av01.pok.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d01av01.pok.ibm.com (8.12.11/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j66NdOge029869 for ; Wed, 6 Jul 2005 19:39:24 -0400 Received: from d01ml261.pok.ibm.com (d01ml261.pok.ibm.com [9.56.227.97]) by d01av01.pok.ibm.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j66NdOLb029859 for ; Wed, 6 Jul 2005 19:39:24 -0400 In-Reply-To: <42CC0456.4000407@gmx.de> To: " webdav" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 6.0.2CF1 June 9, 2003 From: Geoffrey M Clemm Message-ID: Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 19:39:21 -0400 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on D01ML261/01/M/IBM(Build V70_M4_01112005 Beta 3|January 11, 2005) at 07/06/2005 19:39:24, Serialize complete at 07/06/2005 19:39:24 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_alternative 0081F07285257036_=" X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 X-W3C-Scan-Sig: maggie.w3.org 1DqJUG-0000cl-BH bfc0170e1d0e83ddeb74a3f54d920f67 X-Original-To: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Subject: Re: BIND and live property value consistency X-Archived-At: http://www.w3.org/mid/OFEB67109D.B96B5955-ON85257036.00808C42-85257036.0081F2F9@us.ibm.com Resent-From: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9717 X-Loop: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Resent-Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Precedence: list List-Id: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: Resent-Message-Id: Resent-Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2005 23:39:32 +0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 0081F07285257036_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" I agree with Julian. For folks that may have missed Julian's previous explanations, if: - a resource at /x/foo.html has getlastmodified value of 57 - a resource at /y/bar.html has getlastmodified value of 48, - /x/foo.html is deleted - BIND creates a second binding to /y/bar.html at /x/foo.html. then: - the getlastmodified value of /y/bar.html must be updated to be at least 49. This is illustrative of the general principle that the behavior of properties should be defined without trying to treat multiple bindings as a special case (i.e. any implementation that satisfies the definition of that property should be acceptable, and shouldn't be constrained by some "implementation advice" in the BIND specification). Cheers, Geoff Julian wrote on 07/06/2005 12:18:30 PM: > > Lisa Dusseault wrote: > > > > Sure; how about this? The general requirement and specific requirement > > don't have to be in the same place in the document so I've called them > > out separately. > > > > General requirement: "All live properties defined in RFC2518 MUST have > > the same value across all bindings to the same resource. " > > > > Specific: "The DAV:getlastmodified property MUST change when the > > underlying resource body is altered. The property value MUST NOT > > change when a new binding to the resource is created or when a binding > > to the resource is removed. If a collection has a DAV:getlastmodified > > property then its value SHOULD change whenever its set of bindings > > changes (including new bindings, removed bindings or bindings where the > > name or target changes). " > > Well, as I have explained multiple times, this doesn't reflect reality. > Servers *do* have to change the lastmodified date because of namespace > operations; otherwise it will loose it's HTTP-2616-defined semantics. > > > ... > > Best regards, Julian > --=_alternative 0081F07285257036_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
I agree with Julian.

For folks that may have missed Julian's previous explanations, if:
- a resource at /x/foo.html has getlastmodified value of 57
- a resource at /y/bar.html has getlastmodified value of 48,
- /x/foo.html is deleted
- BIND creates a second binding to /y/bar.html at /x/foo.html.
then:
- the getlastmodified value of /y/bar.html must be updated to be
at least 49.

This is illustrative of the general principle that the behavior
of properties should be defined without trying to treat multiple
bindings as a special case (i.e. any implementation that satisfies
the definition of that property should be acceptable, and shouldn't
be constrained by some "implementation advice" in the BIND specification).

Cheers,
Geoff

Julian wrote on 07/06/2005 12:18:30 PM:
>
> Lisa Dusseault wrote:
> >
> > Sure; how about this?  The general requirement and specific requirement  
> > don't have to be in the same place in the document so I've called them
> > out  separately.
> >
> > General requirement: "All live properties defined in RFC2518 MUST have
> > the  same value across all bindings to the same resource. "
> >
> > Specific: "The DAV:getlastmodified property MUST change when the  
> > underlying resource body is altered.  The property value MUST NOT
> > change  when a new binding to the resource is created or when a binding
> > to the  resource is removed.  If a collection has a DAV:getlastmodified
> > property  then its value SHOULD change whenever its set of bindings
> > changes  (including new bindings, removed bindings or bindings where the
> > name or  target changes).  "
>
> Well, as I have explained multiple times, this doesn't reflect reality.
> Servers *do* have to change the lastmodified date because of namespace
> operations; otherwise it will loose it's HTTP-2616-defined semantics.
>
> > ...
>
> Best regards, Julian
>
--=_alternative 0081F07285257036_=-- From w3c-dist-auth-request@frink.w3.org Wed Jul 06 19:53:55 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DqJiD-0001tT-9l for webdav-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 06 Jul 2005 19:53:55 -0400 Received: from frink.w3.org (frink.w3.org [128.30.52.16]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA16313 for ; Wed, 6 Jul 2005 19:53:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists by frink.w3.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1DqJh3-0007uP-Fi for w3c-dist-auth-dist@listhub.w3.org; Wed, 06 Jul 2005 23:52:41 +0000 Received: from lisa.w3.org ([128.30.52.41]) by frink.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DqJh1-0007tS-4Y; Wed, 06 Jul 2005 23:52:39 +0000 Received: from e2.ny.us.ibm.com ([32.97.182.142]) by lisa.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DqJgy-0007u4-1y; Wed, 06 Jul 2005 23:52:38 +0000 Received: from d01relay04.pok.ibm.com (d01relay04.pok.ibm.com [9.56.227.236]) by e2.ny.us.ibm.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j66NqZHV023538; Wed, 6 Jul 2005 19:52:35 -0400 Received: from d01av04.pok.ibm.com (d01av04.pok.ibm.com [9.56.224.64]) by d01relay04.pok.ibm.com (8.12.10/NCO/VERS6.7) with ESMTP id j66NqZPK221032; Wed, 6 Jul 2005 19:52:35 -0400 Received: from d01av04.pok.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d01av04.pok.ibm.com (8.12.11/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j66NqZsJ011966; Wed, 6 Jul 2005 19:52:35 -0400 Received: from d01ml261.pok.ibm.com (d01ml261.pok.ibm.com [9.56.227.97]) by d01av04.pok.ibm.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j66NqZ0l011956; Wed, 6 Jul 2005 19:52:35 -0400 In-Reply-To: To: Geoffrey M Clemm Cc: " webdav" , w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 6.0.2CF1 June 9, 2003 From: Geoffrey M Clemm Message-ID: Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 19:52:31 -0400 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on D01ML261/01/M/IBM(Build V70_M4_01112005 Beta 3|January 11, 2005) at 07/06/2005 19:52:34, Serialize complete at 07/06/2005 19:52:34 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_alternative 0083250C85257036_=" X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.4 X-W3C-Scan-Sig: lisa.w3.org 1DqJgy-0007u4-1y f09f0db2a032093915083b94935af53b X-Original-To: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Subject: Re: BIND and live property value consistency X-Archived-At: http://www.w3.org/mid/OFAC617AE4.99D82F21-ON85257036.0082F238-85257036.008327E9@us.ibm.com Resent-From: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9718 X-Loop: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Resent-Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Precedence: list List-Id: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: Resent-Message-Id: Resent-Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2005 23:52:41 +0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 0083250C85257036_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Argh. I should have said: "must be updated to be at least 58" Cheers, Geoff Geoff wrote on 07/06/2005 07:39:21 PM: > > if: > - a resource at /x/foo.html has getlastmodified value of 57 > - a resource at /y/bar.html has getlastmodified value of 48, > - /x/foo.html is deleted > - BIND creates a second binding to /y/bar.html at /x/foo.html. > then: > - the getlastmodified value of /y/bar.html must be updated to be > at least 49. > > Julian wrote on 07/06/2005 12:18:30 PM: > > > > Lisa Dusseault wrote: > > > > > > Sure; how about this? The general requirement and specific requirement > > > don't have to be in the same place in the document so I've called them > > > out separately. > > > > > > General requirement: "All live properties defined in RFC2518 MUST have > > > the same value across all bindings to the same resource. " > > > > > > Specific: "The DAV:getlastmodified property MUST change when the > > > underlying resource body is altered. The property value MUST NOT > > > change when a new binding to the resource is created or when a binding > > > to the resource is removed. If a collection has a DAV:getlastmodified > > > property then its value SHOULD change whenever its set of bindings > > > changes (including new bindings, removed bindings or bindings where the > > > name or target changes). " > > > > Well, as I have explained multiple times, this doesn't reflect reality. > > Servers *do* have to change the lastmodified date because of namespace > > operations; otherwise it will loose it's HTTP-2616-defined semantics. > > > > > ... > > > > Best regards, Julian > > --=_alternative 0083250C85257036_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Argh.  I should have said: "must be updated to be at least 58"

Cheers,
Geoff

Geoff wrote on 07/06/2005 07:39:21 PM:
>
> if:
> - a resource at /x/foo.html has getlastmodified value of 57
> - a resource at /y/bar.html has getlastmodified value of 48,
> - /x/foo.html is deleted
> - BIND creates a second binding to /y/bar.html at /x/foo.html.
> then:
> - the getlastmodified value of /y/bar.html must be updated to be
> at least 49.
>
> Julian wrote on 07/06/2005 12:18:30 PM:
> >
> > Lisa Dusseault wrote:
> > >
> > > Sure; how about this?  The general requirement and specific requirement  
> > > don't have to be in the same place in the document so I've called them
> > > out  separately.
> > >
> > > General requirement: "All live properties defined in RFC2518 MUST have
> > > the  same value across all bindings to the same resource. "
> > >
> > > Specific: "The DAV:getlastmodified property MUST change when the  
> > > underlying resource body is altered.  The property value MUST NOT
> > > change  when a new binding to the resource is created or when a binding
> > > to the  resource is removed.  If a collection has a DAV:getlastmodified
> > > property  then its value SHOULD change whenever its set of bindings
> > > changes  (including new bindings, removed bindings or bindings where the
> > > name or  target changes).  "
> >
> > Well, as I have explained multiple times, this doesn't reflect reality.
> > Servers *do* have to change the lastmodified date because of namespace
> > operations; otherwise it will loose it's HTTP-2616-defined semantics.
> >
> > > ...
> >
> > Best regards, Julian
> > --=_alternative 0083250C85257036_=-- From w3c-dist-auth-request@frink.w3.org Thu Jul 07 04:36:07 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DqRr0-0007Lm-U9 for webdav-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 07 Jul 2005 04:36:07 -0400 Received: from frink.w3.org (frink.w3.org [128.30.52.16]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA12139 for ; Thu, 7 Jul 2005 04:35:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists by frink.w3.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1DqRol-0007CF-EW for w3c-dist-auth-dist@listhub.w3.org; Thu, 07 Jul 2005 08:33:11 +0000 Received: from lisa.w3.org ([128.30.52.41]) by frink.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DqRok-0007Bg-Kb for w3c-dist-auth@listhub.w3.org; Thu, 07 Jul 2005 08:33:10 +0000 Received: from mx.newgen.co.in ([202.131.146.227] helo=newgen.co.in) by lisa.w3.org with smtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DqRoe-0002BB-NO for w3c-dist-auth@w3.org; Thu, 07 Jul 2005 08:33:10 +0000 Received: (qmail 5728 invoked by uid 504); 7 Jul 2005 08:40:46 -0000 Received: from yogvinder@newgen.co.in by mx.newgen.co.in by uid 501 with qmail-scanner-1.21 (fireav: ???. Clear:RC:0(202.140.41.205):. Processed in 2.383633 secs); 07 Jul 2005 08:40:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ngmail.newgen.co.in) (okhlaoffice@202.140.41.205) by mx.newgen.co.in.146.131.202.in-addr.arpa with SMTP; 7 Jul 2005 08:40:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 28793 invoked by uid 504); 7 Jul 2005 08:39:05 -0000 Received: from yogvinder@newgen.co.in by ngmail.newgen.co.in by uid 501 with qmail-scanner-1.21 (fireav: ???. Clear:RC:1(192.168.4.154):. Processed in 2.786229 secs); 07 Jul 2005 08:39:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ng5550) (192.168.4.154) by 192.168.5.243 with SMTP; 7 Jul 2005 08:39:02 -0000 Message-ID: <00b401c582cf$8e78f4e0$9a04a8c0@ng5550> From: "yogvinder" To: Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2005 14:10:39 +0530 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00B1_01C582FD.A7120540" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Status: No, score=0.2 X-W3C-Scan-Sig: lisa.w3.org 1DqRoe-0002BB-NO 873da99033918f5f9f7dbfd6e63e2b95 X-Original-To: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Subject: webdav starter question X-Archived-At: http://www.w3.org/mid/00b401c582cf$8e78f4e0$9a04a8c0@ng5550 Resent-From: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9719 X-Loop: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Resent-Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Precedence: list List-Id: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: Resent-Message-Id: Resent-Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2005 08:33:11 +0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00B1_01C582FD.A7120540 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable hi,=20 i have just started using webdav... i have following queries... 1) how the request from a client is mapped to webdav server... 2) can someone explain about webdav servlet.java 3) i want to add my own implementations like when i copy a folder, a = log should also get generated .... how can i do that.... Please also tell me any technical book on webdav... thanks=20 regards, yogi ------=_NextPart_000_00B1_01C582FD.A7120540 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
hi,
    i have just started = using=20 webdav...
    i have following=20 queries...
    1) how the request = from a client=20 is mapped to webdav server...
    2) can someone = explain=20 about webdav servlet.java
    3) i want to add my = own=20 implementations like when i copy a folder, a log should also get = generated ....=20 how can i do that....
 
    Please also tell me = any=20 technical book on webdav...
thanks
regards,
yogi
Disclaimer :- This e-mail message including any attachment may contain confidential, proprietary or legally privileged information. It should not be used by who is not the original intended recipient. If you have erroneously received this message, you are notified that you are strictly prohibited from using, coping, altering or disclosing the content of this message. Please delete it immediately and notify the sender. Newgen Software Technologies Ltd and / or its subsidiary Companies accept no responsibility for loss or damage arising from the use of the information transmitted by this email including damage from virus and further acknowledges that any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and no binding nature of the message shall be implied or assumed unless the sender does so expressly with due authority of Newgen Software Technologies Ltd and / or its subsidiary Companies, as applicable. ------=_NextPart_000_00B1_01C582FD.A7120540-- From w3c-dist-auth-request@frink.w3.org Thu Jul 07 13:09:28 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DqZsM-0001ax-AB for webdav-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 07 Jul 2005 13:09:28 -0400 Received: from frink.w3.org (frink.w3.org [128.30.52.16]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA26397 for ; Thu, 7 Jul 2005 13:09:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists by frink.w3.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1DqZqe-0006JR-Co for w3c-dist-auth-dist@listhub.w3.org; Thu, 07 Jul 2005 17:07:40 +0000 Received: from bart.w3.org ([128.30.52.40]) by frink.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DqZqc-0006Ir-C6 for w3c-dist-auth@listhub.w3.org; Thu, 07 Jul 2005 17:07:38 +0000 Received: from laweleka.osafoundation.org ([204.152.186.98] helo=smtp.osafoundation.org) by bart.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DqZqX-0003qZ-NT for w3c-dist-auth@w3.org; Thu, 07 Jul 2005 17:07:38 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 963BE142287; Thu, 7 Jul 2005 10:07:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.osafoundation.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (laweleka.osafoundation.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 27395-06; Thu, 7 Jul 2005 10:07:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lisa.local (w002.z065106067.sjc-ca.dsl.cnc.net [65.106.67.2]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C706142286; Thu, 7 Jul 2005 10:07:32 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2005 10:07:29 -0700 To: "Geoffrey M Clemm" , " webdav" References: From: "Lisa Dusseault" Organization: OSAF Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=iso-8859-15 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Opera M2/8.01 (MacPPC, build 2092) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new and clamav at osafoundation.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 X-W3C-Scan-Sig: bart.w3.org 1DqZqX-0003qZ-NT 03a10eb7b2757011708a62b21389667a X-Original-To: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Subject: Re: BIND and live property value consistency X-Archived-At: http://www.w3.org/mid/op.stjy6rwceochem@lisa.local Resent-From: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9720 X-Loop: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Resent-Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Precedence: list List-Id: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: Resent-Message-Id: Resent-Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2005 17:07:40 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It's too bad about confusing existing clients when 'getlastmodified' =20 changes on some resource without any body changes (the client may be =20 completely unaware of bindings changse going on elsewhere), but I guess =20 that's a less bad approach than possibly causing synchronization errors. To me this seems like a perfect argument for requirements in the BIND =20 spec, not just implementation advice. Because of the synchronization =20 problems clients would have if implementors do it wrong, we should add: "WebDAV (RFC2518) states that the getlastmodified property value MAY be =20 updated when changes are made to the resource even if the changes aren't = =20 to the resource body. However, because clients may synchronize resources= =20 based on the value of this property, and because a binding to one resourc= e =20 at URL A may replace another binding at the same address, this requires a= =20 new getlastmodified date in order to trigger the client to synchronize =20 properly. Thus, the server MUST update the getlastmodified property valu= e =20 whenever a new binding is added to an existing resource as well as when =20 REBIND is used." Lisa On Wed, 06 Jul 2005 16:39:21 -0700, Geoffrey M Clemm =20 wrote: > I agree with Julian. > > For folks that may have missed Julian's previous explanations, if: > - a resource at /x/foo.html has getlastmodified value of 57 > - a resource at /y/bar.html has getlastmodified value of 48, > - /x/foo.html is deleted > - BIND creates a second binding to /y/bar.html at /x/foo.html. > then: > - the getlastmodified value of /y/bar.html must be updated to be > at least 49. > > This is illustrative of the general principle that the behavior > of properties should be defined without trying to treat multiple > bindings as a special case (i.e. any implementation that satisfies > the definition of that property should be acceptable, and shouldn't > be constrained by some "implementation advice" in the BIND =20 > specification). > > Cheers, > Geoff > > Julian wrote on 07/06/2005 12:18:30 PM: >> >> Lisa Dusseault wrote: >> > >> > Sure; how about this? The general requirement and specific > requirement >> > don't have to be in the same place in the document so I've called th= em > >> > out separately. >> > >> > General requirement: "All live properties defined in RFC2518 MUST ha= ve > >> > the same value across all bindings to the same resource. " >> > >> > Specific: "The DAV:getlastmodified property MUST change when the >> > underlying resource body is altered. The property value MUST NOT >> > change when a new binding to the resource is created or when a > binding >> > to the resource is removed. If a collection has a > DAV:getlastmodified >> > property then its value SHOULD change whenever its set of bindings >> > changes (including new bindings, removed bindings or bindings where > the >> > name or target changes). " >> >> Well, as I have explained multiple times, this doesn't reflect reality= . >> Servers *do* have to change the lastmodified date because of namespace >> operations; otherwise it will loose it's HTTP-2616-defined semantics. >> >> > ... >> >> Best regards, Julian >> --=20 Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ From w3c-dist-auth-request@frink.w3.org Thu Jul 07 13:24:08 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Dqa6W-0000oo-Iz for webdav-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 07 Jul 2005 13:24:08 -0400 Received: from frink.w3.org (frink.w3.org [128.30.52.16]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA27420 for ; Thu, 7 Jul 2005 13:24:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists by frink.w3.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1Dqa5n-0002k1-Su for w3c-dist-auth-dist@listhub.w3.org; Thu, 07 Jul 2005 17:23:19 +0000 Received: from bart.w3.org ([128.30.52.40]) by frink.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Dqa5m-0002jT-03 for w3c-dist-auth@listhub.w3.org; Thu, 07 Jul 2005 17:23:18 +0000 Received: from imap.gmx.net ([213.165.64.20] helo=mail.gmx.net) by bart.w3.org with smtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Dqa5i-0006fA-QE for w3c-dist-auth@w3.org; Thu, 07 Jul 2005 17:23:17 +0000 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 07 Jul 2005 17:23:11 -0000 Received: from pD95B7D02.dip0.t-ipconnect.de (EHLO [192.168.1.40]) [217.91.125.2] by mail.gmx.net (mp017) with SMTP; 07 Jul 2005 19:23:11 +0200 X-Authenticated: #1915285 Message-ID: <42CD64FD.3060003@gmx.de> Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2005 19:23:09 +0200 From: Julian Reschke User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (Windows/20050317) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Lisa Dusseault CC: Geoffrey M Clemm , webdav References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 X-W3C-Scan-Sig: bart.w3.org 1Dqa5i-0006fA-QE 89ecec4e15eebce10e7bf75dcf26b95b X-Original-To: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Subject: Re: BIND and live property value consistency X-Archived-At: http://www.w3.org/mid/42CD64FD.3060003@gmx.de Resent-From: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9721 X-Loop: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Resent-Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Precedence: list List-Id: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: Resent-Message-Id: Resent-Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2005 17:23:19 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lisa Dusseault wrote: > > > It's too bad about confusing existing clients when 'getlastmodified' > changes on some resource without any body changes (the client may be > completely unaware of bindings changse going on elsewhere), but I guess > that's a less bad approach than possibly causing synchronization errors. > > To me this seems like a perfect argument for requirements in the BIND > spec, not just implementation advice. Because of the synchronization > problems clients would have if implementors do it wrong, we should add: > > "WebDAV (RFC2518) states that the getlastmodified property value MAY be > updated when changes are made to the resource even if the changes > aren't to the resource body. However, because clients may synchronize > resources based on the value of this property, and because a binding to > one resource at URL A may replace another binding at the same address, > this requires a new getlastmodified date in order to trigger the client > to synchronize properly. Thus, the server MUST update the > getlastmodified property value whenever a new binding is added to an > existing resource as well as when REBIND is used." > > Lisa Lisa, in this case, MUST is wrong as well. A server may very well be aware of any resource mapped previously to that URI, so it *could* make a better decision. Anyway, this is a generic HTTP vs WebDAV issue, so please add it to the RFC2518bis issues list; and let's resolve it there. Best regards, Julian From w3c-dist-auth-request@frink.w3.org Thu Jul 07 16:31:34 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Dqd1w-0000fV-GU for webdav-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 07 Jul 2005 16:31:34 -0400 Received: from frink.w3.org (frink.w3.org [128.30.52.16]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA28326 for ; Thu, 7 Jul 2005 16:31:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists by frink.w3.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1Dqd0g-0004X4-D1 for w3c-dist-auth-dist@listhub.w3.org; Thu, 07 Jul 2005 20:30:14 +0000 Received: from maggie.w3.org ([193.51.208.68]) by frink.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Dqd0f-0004Nl-3O for w3c-dist-auth@listhub.w3.org; Thu, 07 Jul 2005 20:30:13 +0000 Received: from laweleka.osafoundation.org ([204.152.186.98] helo=smtp.osafoundation.org) by maggie.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Dqd0b-00023J-HX for w3c-dist-auth@w3.org; Thu, 07 Jul 2005 20:30:15 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E189142281; Thu, 7 Jul 2005 13:30:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.osafoundation.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (laweleka.osafoundation.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 30862-02; Thu, 7 Jul 2005 13:30:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lisa.local (w002.z065106067.sjc-ca.dsl.cnc.net [65.106.67.2]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D154142253; Thu, 7 Jul 2005 13:29:59 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2005 13:29:51 -0700 To: "Julian Reschke" Cc: "Geoffrey M Clemm" , webdav References: <42CD64FD.3060003@gmx.de> From: "Lisa Dusseault" Organization: OSAF Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=iso-8859-15 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <42CD64FD.3060003@gmx.de> User-Agent: Opera M2/8.01 (MacPPC, build 2092) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new and clamav at osafoundation.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 X-W3C-Scan-Sig: maggie.w3.org 1Dqd0b-00023J-HX fe31fa9ad935f082baca1a758fa25e97 X-Original-To: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Subject: Re: BIND and live property value consistency X-Archived-At: http://www.w3.org/mid/op.stj8j1nieochem@lisa.local Resent-From: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9722 X-Loop: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Resent-Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Precedence: list List-Id: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: Resent-Message-Id: Resent-Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2005 20:30:14 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Well I think the MUST is better than nothing, but there's probably other = =20 alternatives -- a careful SHOULD, or even a more nuanced requirement. "WebDAV states that the getlastmodified property MAY be udpated when =20 changes are made to the resource even if the changes aren't to the =20 resource body, and this naturally includes changes to the resource's =20 bindings. Note however that clients might use Last-Modified to =20 synchronize changes to resources, so servers MUST ensure that the value i= s =20 updated in order to allow synchronization to be correct. For example, =20 when a binding to a resource with last-modified time T1 is replaced with = a =20 binding to a resource with last-modified time T2, the server either has t= o =20 ensure that T2>T1 or update it accordingly." Lisa On Thu, 07 Jul 2005 10:23:09 -0700, Julian Reschke =20 wrote: > Lisa Dusseault wrote: >> It's too bad about confusing existing clients when 'getlastmodified'= =20 >> changes on some resource without any body changes (the client may be = =20 >> completely unaware of bindings changse going on elsewhere), but I =20 >> guess that's a less bad approach than possibly causing synchronizatio= n =20 >> errors. >> To me this seems like a perfect argument for requirements in the BIND= =20 >> spec, not just implementation advice. Because of the synchronization = =20 >> problems clients would have if implementors do it wrong, we should add= : >> "WebDAV (RFC2518) states that the getlastmodified property value MAY = =20 >> be updated when changes are made to the resource even if the changes = =20 >> aren't to the resource body. However, because clients may synchroniz= e =20 >> resources based on the value of this property, and because a binding = =20 >> to one resource at URL A may replace another binding at the same =20 >> address, this requires a new getlastmodified date in order to trigger= =20 >> the client to synchronize properly. Thus, the server MUST update the= =20 >> getlastmodified property value whenever a new binding is added to an = =20 >> existing resource as well as when REBIND is used." >> Lisa > > Lisa, > > in this case, MUST is wrong as well. A server may very well be aware of= =20 > any resource mapped previously to that URI, so it *could* make a better= =20 > decision. > > Anyway, this is a generic HTTP vs WebDAV issue, so please add it to the= =20 > RFC2518bis issues list; and let's resolve it there. > > Best regards, Julian --=20 Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ From w3c-dist-auth-request@frink.w3.org Thu Jul 07 16:44:21 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DqdEL-0007Ga-Or for webdav-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 07 Jul 2005 16:44:21 -0400 Received: from frink.w3.org (frink.w3.org [128.30.52.16]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA03824 for ; Thu, 7 Jul 2005 16:44:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists by frink.w3.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1DqdCs-0006eq-Ll for w3c-dist-auth-dist@listhub.w3.org; Thu, 07 Jul 2005 20:42:50 +0000 Received: from bart.w3.org ([128.30.52.40]) by frink.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DqdCr-0006eI-G4 for w3c-dist-auth@listhub.w3.org; Thu, 07 Jul 2005 20:42:49 +0000 Received: from e2.ny.us.ibm.com ([32.97.182.142]) by bart.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DqdCo-0008C9-6D for w3c-dist-auth@w3.org; Thu, 07 Jul 2005 20:42:49 +0000 Received: from d01relay02.pok.ibm.com (d01relay02.pok.ibm.com [9.56.227.234]) by e2.ny.us.ibm.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j67KgjIW006836 for ; Thu, 7 Jul 2005 16:42:45 -0400 Received: from d01av01.pok.ibm.com (d01av01.pok.ibm.com [9.56.224.215]) by d01relay02.pok.ibm.com (8.12.10/NCO/VERS6.7) with ESMTP id j67Kgjkm246460 for ; Thu, 7 Jul 2005 16:42:45 -0400 Received: from d01av01.pok.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d01av01.pok.ibm.com (8.12.11/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j67Kgjul019036 for ; Thu, 7 Jul 2005 16:42:45 -0400 Received: from d01ml261.pok.ibm.com (d01ml261.pok.ibm.com [9.56.227.97]) by d01av01.pok.ibm.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j67KgjGM019033 for ; Thu, 7 Jul 2005 16:42:45 -0400 In-Reply-To: To: " webdav" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 6.0.2CF1 June 9, 2003 From: Geoffrey M Clemm Message-ID: Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2005 16:42:42 -0400 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on D01ML261/01/M/IBM(Build V70_M4_01112005 Beta 3|January 11, 2005) at 07/07/2005 16:42:45, Serialize complete at 07/07/2005 16:42:45 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_alternative 0071C45A85257037_=" X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.4 X-W3C-Scan-Sig: bart.w3.org 1DqdCo-0008C9-6D d97f39097020bc90cf1c5f61cb34dc8a X-Original-To: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Subject: Re: BIND and live property value consistency X-Archived-At: http://www.w3.org/mid/OF8EF488ED.2D2162AB-ON85257037.00714E6A-85257037.0071C6B8@us.ibm.com Resent-From: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9723 X-Loop: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Resent-Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Precedence: list List-Id: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: Resent-Message-Id: Resent-Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2005 20:42:50 +0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 0071C45A85257037_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" As Julian states below, this is a very reasonable thread to pursue in the context of RFC2518bis, and given that RFC2518bis is a current high priority deliverable for this workgroup, it baffles me why we are having this discussion in a BIND protocol thread. Cheers, Geoff Lisa wrote on 07/07/2005 04:29:51 PM: > > Well I think the MUST is better than nothing, but there's probably other > alternatives -- a careful SHOULD, or even a more nuanced requirement. > > "WebDAV states that the getlastmodified property MAY be udpated when > changes are made to the resource even if the changes aren't to the > resource body, and this naturally includes changes to the resource's > bindings. Note however that clients might use Last-Modified to > synchronize changes to resources, so servers MUST ensure that the value is > updated in order to allow synchronization to be correct. For example, > when a binding to a resource with last-modified time T1 is replaced with a > binding to a resource with last-modified time T2, the server either has to > ensure that T2>T1 or update it accordingly." > > Lisa > > On Thu, 07 Jul 2005 10:23:09 -0700, Julian Reschke > wrote: > > > Lisa Dusseault wrote: > >> It's too bad about confusing existing clients when 'getlastmodified' > >> changes on some resource without any body changes (the client may be > >> completely unaware of bindings changse going on elsewhere), but I > >> guess that's a less bad approach than possibly causing synchronization > >> errors. > >> To me this seems like a perfect argument for requirements in the BIND > >> spec, not just implementation advice. Because of the synchronization > >> problems clients would have if implementors do it wrong, we should add: > >> "WebDAV (RFC2518) states that the getlastmodified property value MAY > >> be updated when changes are made to the resource even if the changes > >> aren't to the resource body. However, because clients may synchronize > >> resources based on the value of this property, and because a binding > >> to one resource at URL A may replace another binding at the same > >> address, this requires a new getlastmodified date in order to trigger > >> the client to synchronize properly. Thus, the server MUST update the > >> getlastmodified property value whenever a new binding is added to an > >> existing resource as well as when REBIND is used." > >> Lisa > > > > Lisa, > > > > in this case, MUST is wrong as well. A server may very well be aware of > > any resource mapped previously to that URI, so it *could* make a better > > decision. > > > > Anyway, this is a generic HTTP vs WebDAV issue, so please add it to the > > RFC2518bis issues list; and let's resolve it there. > > > > Best regards, Julian > > > > -- > Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ > --=_alternative 0071C45A85257037_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
As Julian states below, this is a very reasonable thread to pursue in
the context of RFC2518bis, and given that RFC2518bis
is a current high priority deliverable for this workgroup, it baffles me why we
are having this discussion in a BIND protocol thread.

Cheers,
Geoff

Lisa wrote on 07/07/2005 04:29:51 PM:

>
> Well I think the MUST is better than nothing, but there's probably other  
> alternatives -- a careful SHOULD, or even a more nuanced requirement.
>
> "WebDAV states that the getlastmodified property MAY be udpated when  
> changes are made to the resource even if the changes aren't to the  
> resource body, and this naturally includes changes to the resource's  
> bindings.  Note however that clients might use Last-Modified to  
> synchronize changes to resources, so servers MUST ensure that the value is  
> updated in order to allow synchronization to be correct.  For example,  
> when a binding to a resource with last-modified time T1 is replaced with a  
> binding to a resource with last-modified time T2, the server either has to  
> ensure that T2>T1 or update it accordingly."
>
> Lisa
>
> On Thu, 07 Jul 2005 10:23:09 -0700, Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@gmx.de>  
> wrote:
>
> > Lisa Dusseault wrote:
> >>   It's too bad about confusing existing clients when 'getlastmodified'  
> >> changes on some resource without any body changes (the client may be  
> >> completely unaware of bindings changse going on elsewhere), but I  
> >> guess  that's a less bad approach than possibly causing synchronization  
> >> errors.
> >>  To me this seems like a perfect argument for requirements in the BIND  
> >> spec, not just implementation advice.  Because of the synchronization  
> >> problems clients would have if implementors do it wrong, we should add:
> >>  "WebDAV (RFC2518) states that the getlastmodified property value MAY  
> >> be  updated when changes are made to the resource even if the changes  
> >> aren't  to the resource body.  However, because clients may synchronize  
> >> resources  based on the value of this property, and because a binding  
> >> to one resource  at URL A may replace another binding at the same  
> >> address, this requires a  new getlastmodified date in order to trigger  
> >> the client to synchronize  properly.  Thus, the server MUST update the  
> >> getlastmodified property value  whenever a new binding is added to an  
> >> existing resource as well as when  REBIND is used."
> >>  Lisa
> >
> > Lisa,
> >
> > in this case, MUST is wrong as well. A server may very well be aware of  
> > any resource mapped previously to that URI, so it *could* make a better  
> > decision.
> >
> > Anyway, this is a generic HTTP vs WebDAV issue, so please add it to the  
> > RFC2518bis issues list; and let's resolve it there.
> >
> > Best regards, Julian
>
>
>
> --
> Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
>
--=_alternative 0071C45A85257037_=-- From w3c-dist-auth-request@frink.w3.org Fri Jul 08 07:45:55 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DqrIn-0000TW-7U for webdav-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 08 Jul 2005 07:45:55 -0400 Received: from frink.w3.org (frink.w3.org [128.30.52.16]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA23558 for ; Fri, 8 Jul 2005 07:45:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists by frink.w3.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1DqrGd-0001sB-7T for w3c-dist-auth-dist@listhub.w3.org; Fri, 08 Jul 2005 11:43:39 +0000 Received: from bart.w3.org ([128.30.52.40]) by frink.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DqrGc-0001rY-6a for w3c-dist-auth@listhub.w3.org; Fri, 08 Jul 2005 11:43:38 +0000 Received: from mail.gmx.de ([213.165.64.20] helo=mail.gmx.net) by bart.w3.org with smtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DqrGY-0007O8-Ej for w3c-dist-auth@w3.org; Fri, 08 Jul 2005 11:43:38 +0000 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 08 Jul 2005 11:43:32 -0000 Received: from mail.greenbytes.de (EHLO [192.168.1.40]) [217.5.201.10] by mail.gmx.net (mp005) with SMTP; 08 Jul 2005 13:43:32 +0200 X-Authenticated: #1915285 Message-ID: <42CE66E3.5030101@gmx.de> Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2005 13:43:31 +0200 From: Julian Reschke User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (Windows/20050317) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Geoffrey M Clemm CC: webdav References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 X-W3C-Scan-Sig: bart.w3.org 1DqrGY-0007O8-Ej 5364483bc1761c5214be904eda4d9ef4 X-Original-To: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Subject: Re: BIND and live property value consistency X-Archived-At: http://www.w3.org/mid/42CE66E3.5030101@gmx.de Resent-From: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9724 X-Loop: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Resent-Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Precedence: list List-Id: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: Resent-Message-Id: Resent-Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2005 11:43:39 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Geoffrey M Clemm wrote: > > As Julian states below, this is a very reasonable thread to pursue in > the context of RFC2518bis, and given that RFC2518bis > is a current high priority deliverable for this workgroup, it baffles me > why we > are having this discussion in a BIND protocol thread. > > Cheers, > Geoff Same here. Below is a proposed modest addition to , which currently reads: "Consistent with [RFC2518] the value of a dead property MUST be independent of the number of bindings to its host resource or of the path submitted to PROPFIND." Proposed text: "Consistent with [RFC2518], the value of a dead property MUST be independent of the number of bindings to its host resource or of the path submitted to PROPFIND. On the other hand, the behaviour for each live property depends on it's individual definition, which in turn should define how the property value behaves (for example, see [RFC3744], section 5, paragraph 2)." Feedback appreciated, Julian From w3c-dist-auth-request@frink.w3.org Fri Jul 08 12:15:15 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DqvVR-0004tG-1k for webdav-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 08 Jul 2005 12:15:15 -0400 Received: from frink.w3.org (frink.w3.org [128.30.52.16]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA25017 for ; Fri, 8 Jul 2005 12:15:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists by frink.w3.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1DqvTv-0005Cd-J3 for w3c-dist-auth-dist@listhub.w3.org; Fri, 08 Jul 2005 16:13:39 +0000 Received: from lisa.w3.org ([128.30.52.41]) by frink.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DqvTu-0005Bp-Kc for w3c-dist-auth@listhub.w3.org; Fri, 08 Jul 2005 16:13:38 +0000 Received: from laweleka.osafoundation.org ([204.152.186.98] helo=smtp.osafoundation.org) by lisa.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DqvTp-0001Bz-LJ for w3c-dist-auth@w3.org; Fri, 08 Jul 2005 16:13:38 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C972E142253; Fri, 8 Jul 2005 09:13:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.osafoundation.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (laweleka.osafoundation.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 09915-02; Fri, 8 Jul 2005 09:13:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lisa.local (unknown [198.144.201.116]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AA7E142249; Fri, 8 Jul 2005 09:13:31 -0700 (PDT) To: "Julian Reschke" , "Geoffrey M Clemm" Cc: webdav References: <42CE66E3.5030101@gmx.de> Message-ID: Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2005 09:13:24 -0700 From: "Lisa Dusseault" Organization: OSAF Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=iso-8859-15 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <42CE66E3.5030101@gmx.de> User-Agent: Opera M2/8.01 (MacPPC, build 2092) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new and clamav at osafoundation.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 X-W3C-Scan-Sig: lisa.w3.org 1DqvTp-0001Bz-LJ 21ef5f1e1a273e2822865fa61424d88a X-Original-To: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Subject: Re: BIND and live property value consistency X-Archived-At: http://www.w3.org/mid/op.stlrcm0yeochem@lisa.local Resent-From: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9725 X-Loop: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Resent-Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Precedence: list List-Id: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: Resent-Message-Id: Resent-Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2005 16:13:39 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I agree with adding the proposed wording (except note "it's" needs no =20 apostrophe), however I don't consider it sufficient unless BIND builds on= =20 RFC2518bis where we can make these definitions clear. Lisa On Fri, 08 Jul 2005 04:43:31 -0700, Julian Reschke =20 wrote: > > Geoffrey M Clemm wrote: >> As Julian states below, this is a very reasonable thread to pursue in >> the context of RFC2518bis, and given that RFC2518bis >> is a current high priority deliverable for this workgroup, it baffles = =20 >> me why we >> are having this discussion in a BIND protocol thread. >> Cheers, >> Geoff > > Same here. > > Below is a proposed modest addition to =20 > , =20 > which currently reads: > > "Consistent with [RFC2518] the value of a dead property MUST be =20 > independent of the number of bindings to its host resource or of the =20 > path submitted to PROPFIND." > > Proposed text: > > "Consistent with [RFC2518], the value of a dead property MUST be =20 > independent of the number of bindings to its host resource or of the =20 > path submitted to PROPFIND. On the other hand, the behaviour for each = =20 > live property depends on it's individual definition, which in turn =20 > should define how the property value behaves (for example, see =20 > [RFC3744], section 5, paragraph 2)." > > Feedback appreciated, > > Julian > From w3c-dist-auth-request@frink.w3.org Fri Jul 08 12:25:52 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Dqvfg-0007oV-B9 for webdav-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 08 Jul 2005 12:25:52 -0400 Received: from frink.w3.org (frink.w3.org [128.30.52.16]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA25822 for ; Fri, 8 Jul 2005 12:25:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists by frink.w3.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1Dqvey-00022v-Cs for w3c-dist-auth-dist@listhub.w3.org; Fri, 08 Jul 2005 16:25:04 +0000 Received: from bart.w3.org ([128.30.52.40]) by frink.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Dqvew-00020t-W1 for w3c-dist-auth@listhub.w3.org; Fri, 08 Jul 2005 16:25:03 +0000 Received: from e5.ny.us.ibm.com ([32.97.182.145]) by bart.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Dqves-0007AG-0Z for w3c-dist-auth@w3.org; Fri, 08 Jul 2005 16:25:02 +0000 Received: from d01relay02.pok.ibm.com (d01relay02.pok.ibm.com [9.56.227.234]) by e5.ny.us.ibm.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j68GOvSW027356 for ; Fri, 8 Jul 2005 12:24:57 -0400 Received: from d01av04.pok.ibm.com (d01av04.pok.ibm.com [9.56.224.64]) by d01relay02.pok.ibm.com (8.12.10/NCO/VERS6.7) with ESMTP id j68GOv3u235422 for ; Fri, 8 Jul 2005 12:24:57 -0400 Received: from d01av04.pok.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d01av04.pok.ibm.com (8.12.11/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j68GOvHR005611 for ; Fri, 8 Jul 2005 12:24:57 -0400 Received: from d01ml261.pok.ibm.com (d01ml261.pok.ibm.com [9.56.227.97]) by d01av04.pok.ibm.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j68GOvTM005608 for ; Fri, 8 Jul 2005 12:24:57 -0400 In-Reply-To: <42CE66E3.5030101@gmx.de> To: " webdav" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 6.0.2CF1 June 9, 2003 From: Geoffrey M Clemm Message-ID: Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2005 12:24:55 -0400 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on D01ML261/01/M/IBM(Build V70_M4_01112005 Beta 3|January 11, 2005) at 07/08/2005 12:24:56, Serialize complete at 07/08/2005 12:24:56 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_alternative 005A289F85257038_=" X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.4 X-W3C-Scan-Sig: bart.w3.org 1Dqves-0007AG-0Z de31f62acab7f035fcb0cb02a5999edc X-Original-To: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Subject: Re: BIND and live property value consistency X-Archived-At: http://www.w3.org/mid/OF6DCE72D9.E7D5352F-ON85257038.005A07D4-85257038.005A2B0B@us.ibm.com Resent-From: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9726 X-Loop: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Resent-Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Precedence: list List-Id: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: Resent-Message-Id: Resent-Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2005 16:25:04 +0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 005A289F85257038_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" The proposed additional text is fine with me, although I'd probably delete the phrase "which in turn should define how the property value behaves", since I believe it is redundant. Cheers, Geoff Julian Reschke wrote on 07/08/2005 07:43:31 AM: > Geoffrey M Clemm wrote: > > > > As Julian states below, this is a very reasonable thread to pursue in > > the context of RFC2518bis, and given that RFC2518bis > > is a current high priority deliverable for this workgroup, it baffles me > > why we > > are having this discussion in a BIND protocol thread. > > > > Cheers, > > Geoff > > Same here. > > Below is a proposed modest addition to > html#rfc.section.2.6>, > which currently reads: > > "Consistent with [RFC2518] the value of a dead property MUST be > independent of the number of bindings to its host resource or of the > path submitted to PROPFIND." > > Proposed text: > > "Consistent with [RFC2518], the value of a dead property MUST be > independent of the number of bindings to its host resource or of the > path submitted to PROPFIND. On the other hand, the behaviour for each > live property depends on it's individual definition, which in turn > should define how the property value behaves (for example, see > [RFC3744], section 5, paragraph 2)." > > Feedback appreciated, > > Julian --=_alternative 005A289F85257038_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
The proposed additional text is fine with me, although I'd probably
delete the phrase "which in turn should define how the property value
behaves", since I believe it is redundant.

Cheers,
Geoff


Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@gmx.de> wrote on 07/08/2005 07:43:31 AM:

> Geoffrey M Clemm wrote:
> >
> > As Julian states below, this is a very reasonable thread to pursue in
> > the context of RFC2518bis, and given that RFC2518bis
> > is a current high priority deliverable for this workgroup, it baffles me
> > why we
> > are having this discussion in a BIND protocol thread.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Geoff
>
> Same here.
>
> Below is a proposed modest addition to
> <http://greenbytes.de/tech/webdav/draft-ietf-webdav-bind-latest.
> html#rfc.section.2.6>,
> which currently reads:
>
> "Consistent with [RFC2518] the value of a dead property MUST be
> independent of the number of bindings to its host resource or of the
> path submitted to PROPFIND."
>
> Proposed text:
>
> "Consistent with [RFC2518], the value of a dead property MUST be
> independent of the number of bindings to its host resource or of the
> path submitted to PROPFIND.  On the other hand, the behaviour for each
> live property depends on it's individual definition, which in turn
> should define how the property value behaves (for example, see
> [RFC3744], section 5, paragraph 2)."
>
> Feedback appreciated,
>
> Julian
 --=_alternative 005A289F85257038_=-- From w3c-dist-auth-request@frink.w3.org Fri Jul 08 13:15:59 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DqwSC-0004N2-DX for webdav-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 08 Jul 2005 13:15:59 -0400 Received: from frink.w3.org (frink.w3.org [128.30.52.16]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA28845 for ; Fri, 8 Jul 2005 13:15:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists by frink.w3.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1DqwQx-0005zS-FJ for w3c-dist-auth-dist@listhub.w3.org; Fri, 08 Jul 2005 17:14:39 +0000 Received: from bart.w3.org ([128.30.52.40]) by frink.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DqwQw-0005xi-KD for w3c-dist-auth@listhub.w3.org; Fri, 08 Jul 2005 17:14:38 +0000 Received: from mail.gmx.net ([213.165.64.20]) by bart.w3.org with smtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DqwQi-0001JW-Fn for w3c-dist-auth@w3.org; Fri, 08 Jul 2005 17:14:37 +0000 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 08 Jul 2005 17:14:22 -0000 Received: from p508FB4D7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de (EHLO [192.168.178.21]) [80.143.180.215] by mail.gmx.net (mp005) with SMTP; 08 Jul 2005 19:14:22 +0200 X-Authenticated: #1915285 Message-ID: <42CEB466.1020208@gmx.de> Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2005 19:14:14 +0200 From: Julian Reschke User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (Windows/20050317) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Geoffrey M Clemm CC: webdav References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 X-W3C-Scan-Sig: bart.w3.org 1DqwQi-0001JW-Fn 840b162dc971109e13818b8f31e010ab X-Original-To: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Subject: Re: BIND and live property value consistency X-Archived-At: http://www.w3.org/mid/42CEB466.1020208@gmx.de Resent-From: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9727 X-Loop: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Resent-Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Precedence: list List-Id: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: Resent-Message-Id: Resent-Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2005 17:14:39 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Geoffrey M Clemm wrote: > > The proposed additional text is fine with me, although I'd probably > delete the phrase "which in turn should define how the property value > behaves", since I believe it is redundant. > > Cheers, > Geoff Good point. New proposed text (): "2.6. PROPFIND and Bindings Consistent with [RFC2518], the value of a dead property MUST be independent of the number of bindings to its host resource or of the path submitted to PROPFIND. On the other hand, the behaviour for each live property depends on its individual definition (for example, see [RFC3744], section 5, paragraph 2)." Best regards, Julian From w3c-dist-auth-request@frink.w3.org Fri Jul 08 13:33:17 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Dqwix-0005PE-1J for webdav-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 08 Jul 2005 13:33:17 -0400 Received: from frink.w3.org (frink.w3.org [128.30.52.16]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA29857 for ; Fri, 8 Jul 2005 13:33:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists by frink.w3.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1DqwiC-0002ne-KQ for w3c-dist-auth-dist@listhub.w3.org; Fri, 08 Jul 2005 17:32:28 +0000 Received: from maggie.w3.org ([193.51.208.68]) by frink.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DqwiB-0002n1-3s for w3c-dist-auth@listhub.w3.org; Fri, 08 Jul 2005 17:32:27 +0000 Received: from mail.gmx.net ([213.165.64.20]) by maggie.w3.org with smtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Dqwi7-0002ca-MF for w3c-dist-auth@w3.org; Fri, 08 Jul 2005 17:32:29 +0000 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 08 Jul 2005 17:32:20 -0000 Received: from p508FB4D7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de (EHLO [192.168.178.21]) [80.143.180.215] by mail.gmx.net (mp021) with SMTP; 08 Jul 2005 19:32:20 +0200 X-Authenticated: #1915285 Message-ID: <42CEB89F.2000206@gmx.de> Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2005 19:32:15 +0200 From: Julian Reschke User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (Windows/20050317) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Lisa Dusseault CC: Geoffrey M Clemm , webdav References: <42CE66E3.5030101@gmx.de> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 X-W3C-Scan-Sig: maggie.w3.org 1Dqwi7-0002ca-MF 904cd13fc1a1bcda31b30ca6389060c0 X-Original-To: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Subject: Re: BIND and live property value consistency X-Archived-At: http://www.w3.org/mid/42CEB89F.2000206@gmx.de Resent-From: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9728 X-Loop: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Resent-Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Precedence: list List-Id: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: Resent-Message-Id: Resent-Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2005 17:32:28 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lisa Dusseault wrote: > > I agree with adding the proposed wording (except note "it's" needs no > apostrophe), however I don't consider it sufficient unless BIND builds > on RFC2518bis where we can make these definitions clear. OK, to summarize: Lisa prefers to either delay BIND (by making it depend on RFC2518bis), or to duplicate explanations (that will need to go into RFC2518bis anyway). Geoff and I think that the draft as currently proposed is clear enough, and that none of the alternatives proposed by Lisa are better (Geoff, you'll correct me if I'm wrong here). At this point I propose that the WG makes a decision on this; it seems that all arguments have been exchanged on this and we really have more important work to do. Speaking of which: - What is the current RFC2518bis issues list (, or something else?), and who is maintaining it? - Is there a document change history that tracks all changes that have been made in the last (expired) draft () compared to RFC2518? - Are there any plans to actually start working on the draft again? Is there anything holding us back besides the three WGLCs we're just finishing? Best regards, Julian From w3c-dist-auth-request@frink.w3.org Fri Jul 08 13:43:53 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DqwtD-00026z-34 for webdav-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 08 Jul 2005 13:43:53 -0400 Received: from frink.w3.org (frink.w3.org [128.30.52.16]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA00598 for ; Fri, 8 Jul 2005 13:43:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists by frink.w3.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1DqwsX-0005Xt-Co for w3c-dist-auth-dist@listhub.w3.org; Fri, 08 Jul 2005 17:43:09 +0000 Received: from bart.w3.org ([128.30.52.40]) by frink.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DqwsW-0005XH-PP for w3c-dist-auth@listhub.w3.org; Fri, 08 Jul 2005 17:43:08 +0000 Received: from laweleka.osafoundation.org ([204.152.186.98] helo=smtp.osafoundation.org) by bart.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DqwsT-000865-NL for w3c-dist-auth@w3.org; Fri, 08 Jul 2005 17:43:08 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04923142286; Fri, 8 Jul 2005 10:43:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.osafoundation.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (laweleka.osafoundation.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 11206-05; Fri, 8 Jul 2005 10:43:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lisa.local (unknown [198.144.201.116]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E92114227B; Fri, 8 Jul 2005 10:43:04 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2005 10:42:58 -0700 To: "Julian Reschke" Cc: "Geoffrey M Clemm" , webdav References: <42CE66E3.5030101@gmx.de> <42CEB89F.2000206@gmx.de> From: "Lisa Dusseault" Organization: OSAF Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=iso-8859-15 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <42CEB89F.2000206@gmx.de> User-Agent: Opera M2/8.01 (MacPPC, build 2092) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new and clamav at osafoundation.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 X-W3C-Scan-Sig: bart.w3.org 1DqwsT-000865-NL c14512b7a01a6dfb531627c87c6fc1e9 X-Original-To: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Subject: Re: BIND and live property value consistency X-Archived-At: http://www.w3.org/mid/op.stlvhwyseochem@lisa.local Resent-From: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9729 X-Loop: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Resent-Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Precedence: list List-Id: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: Resent-Message-Id: Resent-Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2005 17:43:09 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > - Is there a document change history that tracks all changes that have = =20 > been made in the last (expired) draft =20 > (= ) =20 > compared to RFC2518? Yes -- RFC2518 Changes.doc I have been hosting this at =20 http://www.sharemation.com/%7Emilele/public/dav/ but I'll move it to our share at http://ietf.webdav.org/webdav with the =20 next version. > > - Are there any plans to actually start working on the draft again? Is = =20 > there anything holding us back besides the three WGLCs we're just =20 > finishing? Yes, and yes -- there are a bunch of issues I was unable to determine =20 consensus on very well while I was chair. Lisa From w3c-dist-auth-request@frink.w3.org Fri Jul 08 14:06:20 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DqxEw-00064F-Oj for webdav-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 08 Jul 2005 14:06:20 -0400 Received: from frink.w3.org (frink.w3.org [128.30.52.16]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA02058 for ; Fri, 8 Jul 2005 14:06:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists by frink.w3.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1DqxE9-0003AS-Fs for w3c-dist-auth-dist@listhub.w3.org; Fri, 08 Jul 2005 18:05:29 +0000 Received: from lisa.w3.org ([128.30.52.41]) by frink.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DqxE8-00039u-R6 for w3c-dist-auth@listhub.w3.org; Fri, 08 Jul 2005 18:05:28 +0000 Received: from pop.gmx.de ([213.165.64.20] helo=mail.gmx.net) by lisa.w3.org with smtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DqxE2-00018d-SN for w3c-dist-auth@w3.org; Fri, 08 Jul 2005 18:05:28 +0000 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 08 Jul 2005 18:05:21 -0000 Received: from p508FB4D7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de (EHLO [192.168.178.21]) [80.143.180.215] by mail.gmx.net (mp014) with SMTP; 08 Jul 2005 20:05:21 +0200 X-Authenticated: #1915285 Message-ID: <42CEC05B.8010808@gmx.de> Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2005 20:05:15 +0200 From: Julian Reschke User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (Windows/20050317) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: webdav CC: Lisa Dusseault References: <42CE66E3.5030101@gmx.de> <42CEB89F.2000206@gmx.de> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 X-W3C-Scan-Sig: lisa.w3.org 1DqxE2-00018d-SN dce575a7661d3db4918676d6666ecbd6 X-Original-To: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Subject: RFC2518bis, was: BIND and live property value consistency X-Archived-At: http://www.w3.org/mid/42CEC05B.8010808@gmx.de Resent-From: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9730 X-Loop: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Resent-Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Precedence: list List-Id: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: Resent-Message-Id: Resent-Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2005 18:05:29 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lisa Dusseault wrote: >> - Is there a document change history that tracks all changes that >> have been made in the last (expired) draft >> () >> compared to RFC2518? > > Yes -- RFC2518 Changes.doc > I have been hosting this at > http://www.sharemation.com/%7Emilele/public/dav/ > but I'll move it to our share at http://ietf.webdav.org/webdav with the > next version. As far as I can tell, this document was last changed over two years ago, maybe there's a newer version somewhere else??? >> - Are there any plans to actually start working on the draft again? >> Is there anything holding us back besides the three WGLCs we're just >> finishing? > > > Yes, and yes -- there are a bunch of issues I was unable to determine > consensus on very well while I was chair. So what's your proposal how we the WG should proceed. In particular, what about the state of the issues list I asked about? Best regards, Julian From w3c-dist-auth-request@frink.w3.org Fri Jul 08 14:59:18 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Dqy4E-0003aO-Gg for webdav-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 08 Jul 2005 14:59:18 -0400 Received: from frink.w3.org (frink.w3.org [128.30.52.16]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA06605 for ; Fri, 8 Jul 2005 14:59:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists by frink.w3.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1Dqy2z-0006hf-Ct for w3c-dist-auth-dist@listhub.w3.org; Fri, 08 Jul 2005 18:58:01 +0000 Received: from bart.w3.org ([128.30.52.40]) by frink.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Dqy2y-0006h7-FH for w3c-dist-auth@listhub.w3.org; Fri, 08 Jul 2005 18:58:00 +0000 Received: from laweleka.osafoundation.org ([204.152.186.98] helo=smtp.osafoundation.org) by bart.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Dqy2s-0003Pz-Oo for w3c-dist-auth@w3.org; Fri, 08 Jul 2005 18:58:00 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92C62142288; Fri, 8 Jul 2005 11:57:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.osafoundation.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (laweleka.osafoundation.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 11480-04; Fri, 8 Jul 2005 11:57:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lisa.local (unknown [198.144.201.116]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03E6D142287; Fri, 8 Jul 2005 11:57:52 -0700 (PDT) To: "Julian Reschke" , webdav References: <42CE66E3.5030101@gmx.de> <42CEB89F.2000206@gmx.de> <42CEC05B.8010808@gmx.de> Message-ID: From: "Lisa Dusseault" Organization: OSAF Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=iso-8859-15 MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2005 11:57:48 -0700 In-Reply-To: <42CEC05B.8010808@gmx.de> User-Agent: Opera M2/8.01 (MacPPC, build 2092) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new and clamav at osafoundation.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 X-W3C-Scan-Sig: bart.w3.org 1Dqy2s-0003Pz-Oo bc35a924fe741ff9efa73b511c661aee X-Original-To: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Subject: Re: RFC2518bis, was: BIND and live property value consistency X-Archived-At: http://www.w3.org/mid/op.stlyymrueochem@lisa.local Resent-From: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9731 X-Loop: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Resent-Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Precedence: list List-Id: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: Resent-Message-Id: Resent-Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2005 18:58:01 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, 08 Jul 2005 11:05:15 -0700, Julian Reschke =20 wrote: > > So what's your proposal how we the WG should proceed. In particular, =20 > what about the state of the issues list I asked about? > That's up to Cullen, and I don't know the state of the issues list except= =20 that it's out-of-date. Lisa From w3c-dist-auth-request@frink.w3.org Fri Jul 08 18:32:45 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Dr1Ol-00026W-EY for webdav-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 08 Jul 2005 18:32:45 -0400 Received: from frink.w3.org (frink.w3.org [128.30.52.16]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA10861 for ; Fri, 8 Jul 2005 18:32:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists by frink.w3.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1Dr1Mt-000083-3A for w3c-dist-auth-dist@listhub.w3.org; Fri, 08 Jul 2005 22:30:47 +0000 Received: from lisa.w3.org ([128.30.52.41]) by frink.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Dr1Mr-00007Q-1W for w3c-dist-auth@listhub.w3.org; Fri, 08 Jul 2005 22:30:45 +0000 Received: from laweleka.osafoundation.org ([204.152.186.98] helo=smtp.osafoundation.org) by lisa.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Dr1Ml-0000D9-Ua for w3c-dist-auth@w3c.org; Fri, 08 Jul 2005 22:30:44 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFFE014228A for ; Fri, 8 Jul 2005 15:30:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.osafoundation.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (laweleka.osafoundation.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 14526-09 for ; Fri, 8 Jul 2005 15:30:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lisa.local (unknown [198.144.201.116]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A173142289 for ; Fri, 8 Jul 2005 15:30:32 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2005 15:30:20 -0700 To: "Webdav WG" From: "Lisa Dusseault" Organization: OSAF Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=iso-8859-15 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: User-Agent: Opera M2/8.01 (MacPPC, build 2092) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new and clamav at osafoundation.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 X-W3C-Scan-Sig: lisa.w3.org 1Dr1Ml-0000D9-Ua 68b7c06ab777157377329d6e3b18d3ee X-Original-To: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Subject: Support for non-DAV collections X-Archived-At: http://www.w3.org/mid/op.stl8suiieochem@lisa.local Resent-From: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9732 X-Loop: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Resent-Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Precedence: list List-Id: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: Resent-Message-Id: Resent-Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2005 22:30:47 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Speaking of RFC2518bis, do we have any support for this option in any =20 WebDAV implementations? I don't recall it being tested in past interops.= .. " A resource MAY be a collection but not be WebDAV compliant. That is, the resource may comply with all the rules set out in this specification regarding how a collection is to behave without necessarily supporting all methods that a WebDAV compliant resource is required to support. In such a case the resource may return the DAV:resourcetype property with the value DAV:collection but MUST NOT return a DAV header containing the value "1" on an OPTIONS response." If this option isn't implemented or isn't interoperable, let's cut it. Lisa From w3c-dist-auth-request@frink.w3.org Sat Jul 09 03:21:37 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Dr9ea-0004nL-TF for webdav-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 09 Jul 2005 03:21:37 -0400 Received: from frink.w3.org (frink.w3.org [128.30.52.16]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA08341 for ; Sat, 9 Jul 2005 03:21:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists by frink.w3.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1Dr9dg-0003EP-2v for w3c-dist-auth-dist@listhub.w3.org; Sat, 09 Jul 2005 07:20:40 +0000 Received: from bart.w3.org ([128.30.52.40]) by frink.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Dr9df-0003Dm-Br for w3c-dist-auth@listhub.w3.org; Sat, 09 Jul 2005 07:20:39 +0000 Received: from pop.gmx.de ([213.165.64.20] helo=mail.gmx.net) by bart.w3.org with smtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Dr9dd-0002rl-2K for w3c-dist-auth@w3.org; Sat, 09 Jul 2005 07:20:39 +0000 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 09 Jul 2005 07:20:35 -0000 Received: from p508F94E3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de (EHLO [192.168.178.21]) [80.143.148.227] by mail.gmx.net (mp024) with SMTP; 09 Jul 2005 09:20:35 +0200 X-Authenticated: #1915285 Message-ID: <42CF7AB8.1040506@gmx.de> Date: Sat, 09 Jul 2005 09:20:24 +0200 From: Julian Reschke User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (Windows/20050317) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Lisa Dusseault CC: webdav References: <42CE66E3.5030101@gmx.de> <42CEB89F.2000206@gmx.de> <42CEC05B.8010808@gmx.de> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 X-W3C-Scan-Sig: bart.w3.org 1Dr9dd-0002rl-2K e82fc9d97af4a6d41aca14ef2ea1b292 X-Original-To: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Subject: Re: RFC2518bis, was: BIND and live property value consistency X-Archived-At: http://www.w3.org/mid/42CF7AB8.1040506@gmx.de Resent-From: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9734 X-Loop: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Resent-Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Precedence: list List-Id: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: Resent-Message-Id: Resent-Date: Sat, 09 Jul 2005 07:20:40 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lisa Dusseault wrote: > > On Fri, 08 Jul 2005 11:05:15 -0700, Julian Reschke > wrote: > > >> >> So what's your proposal how we the WG should proceed. In particular, >> what about the state of the issues list I asked about? >> > That's up to Cullen, and I don't know the state of the issues list > except that it's out-of-date. Let's rephrase that: you say that you think you have the editor role for RFC2518bis. In case you'd be starting to work on it again, where would you look for the next to-do item? Best regards, Julian From w3c-dist-auth-request@frink.w3.org Sat Jul 09 03:21:37 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Dr9ea-0004nM-TT for webdav-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 09 Jul 2005 03:21:37 -0400 Received: from frink.w3.org (frink.w3.org [128.30.52.16]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA08342 for ; Sat, 9 Jul 2005 03:21:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists by frink.w3.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1Dr9cF-0002kl-JK for w3c-dist-auth-dist@listhub.w3.org; Sat, 09 Jul 2005 07:19:11 +0000 Received: from bart.w3.org ([128.30.52.40]) by frink.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Dr9cD-0002kD-Vz for w3c-dist-auth@listhub.w3.org; Sat, 09 Jul 2005 07:19:09 +0000 Received: from pop.gmx.net ([213.165.64.20] helo=mail.gmx.net) by bart.w3.org with smtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Dr9cA-0002fv-IE for w3c-dist-auth@w3c.org; Sat, 09 Jul 2005 07:19:09 +0000 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 09 Jul 2005 07:19:02 -0000 Received: from p508F94E3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de (EHLO [192.168.178.21]) [80.143.148.227] by mail.gmx.net (mp027) with SMTP; 09 Jul 2005 09:19:02 +0200 X-Authenticated: #1915285 Message-ID: <42CF7A5A.5000908@gmx.de> Date: Sat, 09 Jul 2005 09:18:50 +0200 From: Julian Reschke User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (Windows/20050317) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Lisa Dusseault CC: Webdav WG References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 X-W3C-Scan-Sig: bart.w3.org 1Dr9cA-0002fv-IE 0407527a25d4f5885733032ce8c322d4 X-Original-To: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Subject: Re: Support for non-DAV collections X-Archived-At: http://www.w3.org/mid/42CF7A5A.5000908@gmx.de Resent-From: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9733 X-Loop: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Resent-Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Precedence: list List-Id: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: Resent-Message-Id: Resent-Date: Sat, 09 Jul 2005 07:19:11 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lisa Dusseault wrote: > > > Speaking of RFC2518bis, do we have any support for this option in any > WebDAV implementations? I don't recall it being tested in past interops... > > " A resource MAY be a collection but not be WebDAV compliant. That is, > the resource may comply with all the rules set out in this > specification regarding how a collection is to behave without > necessarily supporting all methods that a WebDAV compliant resource > is required to support. In such a case the resource may return the > DAV:resourcetype property with the value DAV:collection but MUST NOT > return a DAV header containing the value "1" on an OPTIONS response." > > If this option isn't implemented or isn't interoperable, let's cut it. As far as I can tell, there's no reason to cut it. It doesn't make the protocol harder to implement, and it may be of value for some servers that choose to implement a subset of WebDAV only (GroupDAV comes to mind). Best regards, Julian From w3c-dist-auth-request@frink.w3.org Sat Jul 09 03:26:38 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Dr9jS-00071j-B5 for webdav-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 09 Jul 2005 03:26:38 -0400 Received: from frink.w3.org (frink.w3.org [128.30.52.16]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA08523 for ; Sat, 9 Jul 2005 03:26:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists by frink.w3.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1Dr9ip-0004EV-Ka for w3c-dist-auth-dist@listhub.w3.org; Sat, 09 Jul 2005 07:25:59 +0000 Received: from lisa.w3.org ([128.30.52.41]) by frink.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Dr9io-0004Du-Vs for w3c-dist-auth@listhub.w3.org; Sat, 09 Jul 2005 07:25:58 +0000 Received: from ietf.cse.ucsc.edu ([128.114.52.130]) by lisa.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Dr9il-0005eu-EH for w3c-dist-auth@w3.org; Sat, 09 Jul 2005 07:25:58 +0000 Received: (from hunkim@localhost) by ietf.cse.ucsc.edu (8.12.8/8.11.4) id j697Ps39022083; Sat, 9 Jul 2005 00:25:54 -0700 Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2005 00:25:54 -0700 Message-Id: <200507090725.j697Ps39022083@ietf.cse.ucsc.edu> From: bugzilla@soe.ucsc.edu To: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org X-Bugzilla-Reason: QAContact X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 X-W3C-Scan-Sig: lisa.w3.org 1Dr9il-0005eu-EH 1141b18ac78fcd01494fbcf60dc59bc2 X-Original-To: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Subject: [Bug 85] New: clarification of live property behaviour vs namespace ops needed X-Archived-At: http://www.w3.org/mid/200507090725.j697Ps39022083@ietf.cse.ucsc.edu Resent-From: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9735 X-Loop: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Resent-Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Precedence: list List-Id: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: Resent-Message-Id: Resent-Date: Sat, 09 Jul 2005 07:25:59 +0000 http://ietf.cse.ucsc.edu:8080/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=85 Summary: clarification of live property behaviour vs namespace ops needed Product: WebDAV-RFC2518-bis Version: -06 Platform: Other OS/Version: other Status: NEW Severity: normal Priority: P2 Component: 14. DAV Properties AssignedTo: joe-bugzilla@cursive.net ReportedBy: julian.reschke@greenbytes.de QAContact: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org RFC2616's model of response headers (which are per URL) doesn't work well with RFC2518's namespace operations. In particular, after moving resources around, a server may have to do post-processing steps to ensure that - lastmodified response header (and DAV:getlastmodified property) are "newer" than for *any* resource that has been previously mapped to a given URI - etag (and DAV:getetag property) are different from any etag previously returned for that URI This should either go into section 14 (as comment applicable to all properties inherited from RFC2616), or to an appendix. ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are the QA contact for the bug, or are watching the QA contact. From w3c-dist-auth-request@frink.w3.org Sat Jul 09 11:44:01 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DrHUn-0006Bl-Ej for webdav-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 09 Jul 2005 11:44:01 -0400 Received: from frink.w3.org (frink.w3.org [128.30.52.16]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA07873 for ; Sat, 9 Jul 2005 11:43:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists by frink.w3.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1DrHSY-0000Ip-GD for w3c-dist-auth-dist@listhub.w3.org; Sat, 09 Jul 2005 15:41:42 +0000 Received: from lisa.w3.org ([128.30.52.41]) by frink.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DrHSX-0000G0-Ez for w3c-dist-auth@listhub.w3.org; Sat, 09 Jul 2005 15:41:41 +0000 Received: from laweleka.osafoundation.org ([204.152.186.98] helo=smtp.osafoundation.org) by lisa.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DrHSE-0007za-D4 for w3c-dist-auth@w3c.org; Sat, 09 Jul 2005 15:41:39 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B240142292; Sat, 9 Jul 2005 08:41:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.osafoundation.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (laweleka.osafoundation.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 21140-05; Sat, 9 Jul 2005 08:41:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lisa.local (unknown [198.144.201.116]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7861214228E; Sat, 9 Jul 2005 08:41:20 -0700 (PDT) To: "Julian Reschke" Cc: "Webdav WG" References: <42CF7A5A.5000908@gmx.de> Message-ID: Date: Sat, 09 Jul 2005 08:41:15 -0700 From: "Lisa Dusseault" Organization: OSAF Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=iso-8859-15 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <42CF7A5A.5000908@gmx.de> User-Agent: Opera M2/8.01 (MacPPC, build 2092) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new and clamav at osafoundation.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 X-W3C-Scan-Sig: lisa.w3.org 1DrHSE-0007za-D4 a91bcf5786eb00d55e4db673065e5bc8 X-Original-To: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Subject: Re: Support for non-DAV collections X-Archived-At: http://www.w3.org/mid/op.stnki1ureochem@lisa.local Resent-From: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9736 X-Loop: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Resent-Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Precedence: list List-Id: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: Resent-Message-Id: Resent-Date: Sat, 09 Jul 2005 15:41:42 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It depends on whether we're going for Draft Standard or not -- and it was= =20 my understanding that Ted is keeping the WG open so we can bring WebDAV t= o =20 Draft Standard. To go to Draft Standard, we need to take a Proposed =20 Standard and remove the options that aren't implemented, interoperable an= d =20 tested 2x2. Another option that isn't broadly implemented, if at all, is the support = =20 for locks that aren't write locks or aren't exclusive locks (since only =20 exclusive write locks are fully defined). Are there any implementations = =20 at all that do locks that aren't write locks? Didn't Adobe or somebody =20 implement shared locks? Lisa On Sat, 09 Jul 2005 00:18:50 -0700, Julian Reschke =20 wrote: > > Lisa Dusseault wrote: >> Speaking of RFC2518bis, do we have any support for this option in =20 >> any WebDAV implementations? I don't recall it being tested in past =20 >> interops... >> " A resource MAY be a collection but not be WebDAV compliant. That= =20 >> is, >> the resource may comply with all the rules set out in this >> specification regarding how a collection is to behave without >> necessarily supporting all methods that a WebDAV compliant resource >> is required to support. In such a case the resource may return the >> DAV:resourcetype property with the value DAV:collection but MUST NO= T >> return a DAV header containing the value "1" on an OPTIONS response= ." >> If this option isn't implemented or isn't interoperable, let's cut it= . > > As far as I can tell, there's no reason to cut it. It doesn't make the = =20 > protocol harder to implement, and it may be of value for some servers =20 > that choose to implement a subset of WebDAV only (GroupDAV comes to =20 > mind). > > Best regards, Julian > From w3c-dist-auth-request@frink.w3.org Sat Jul 09 12:41:41 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DrIOb-0006zA-4T for webdav-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 09 Jul 2005 12:41:41 -0400 Received: from frink.w3.org (frink.w3.org [128.30.52.16]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA10977 for ; Sat, 9 Jul 2005 12:41:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists by frink.w3.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1DrINm-0006ir-RD for w3c-dist-auth-dist@listhub.w3.org; Sat, 09 Jul 2005 16:40:50 +0000 Received: from bart.w3.org ([128.30.52.40]) by frink.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DrINk-0006hh-6f for w3c-dist-auth@listhub.w3.org; Sat, 09 Jul 2005 16:40:48 +0000 Received: from imap.gmx.net ([213.165.64.20] helo=mail.gmx.net) by bart.w3.org with smtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DrINf-0006v3-IA for w3c-dist-auth@w3c.org; Sat, 09 Jul 2005 16:40:48 +0000 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 09 Jul 2005 16:40:39 -0000 Received: from pD95B7D02.dip0.t-ipconnect.de (EHLO [192.168.1.40]) [217.91.125.2] by mail.gmx.net (mp028) with SMTP; 09 Jul 2005 18:40:39 +0200 X-Authenticated: #1915285 Message-ID: <42CFFE03.6020300@gmx.de> Date: Sat, 09 Jul 2005 18:40:35 +0200 From: Julian Reschke User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (Windows/20050317) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Lisa Dusseault CC: Webdav WG References: <42CF7A5A.5000908@gmx.de> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 X-W3C-Scan-Sig: bart.w3.org 1DrINf-0006v3-IA f7ea2ac7a95904ea27d8925c6fdc5d2c X-Original-To: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Subject: Re: Support for non-DAV collections X-Archived-At: http://www.w3.org/mid/42CFFE03.6020300@gmx.de Resent-From: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9737 X-Loop: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Resent-Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Precedence: list List-Id: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: Resent-Message-Id: Resent-Date: Sat, 09 Jul 2005 16:40:50 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lisa Dusseault wrote: > It depends on whether we're going for Draft Standard or not -- and it > was my understanding that Ted is keeping the WG open so we can bring > WebDAV to Draft Standard. To go to Draft Standard, we need to take a > Proposed Standard and remove the options that aren't implemented, > interoperable and tested 2x2. Yes. Every server that supports collections as WebDAV compliant resources already supports this feature. And every client that issues a PROPFIND without using other WebDAV methods already uses it. I'm not sure what kind of additional test you're looking for. > Another option that isn't broadly implemented, if at all, is the > support for locks that aren't write locks or aren't exclusive locks > (since only exclusive write locks are fully defined). Are there any > implementations at all that do locks that aren't write locks? Didn't > Adobe or somebody implement shared locks? Me confused. The only type of locks defined in RFC2518 are write locks. Write locks can be shared or exclusive, and there are both servers implementing this and clients using it. Looking at , issue #96, the WG has discussed this over three years ago and concluced that they are indeed implemented. Best regards, Julian From w3c-dist-auth-request@frink.w3.org Sat Jul 09 20:12:50 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DrPRB-00085h-Jf for webdav-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 09 Jul 2005 20:12:50 -0400 Received: from frink.w3.org (frink.w3.org [128.30.52.16]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA05065 for ; Sat, 9 Jul 2005 20:12:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists by frink.w3.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1DrPOp-0001ke-4q for w3c-dist-auth-dist@listhub.w3.org; Sun, 10 Jul 2005 00:10:23 +0000 Received: from maggie.w3.org ([193.51.208.68]) by frink.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DrPOo-0001k1-1d for w3c-dist-auth@listhub.w3.org; Sun, 10 Jul 2005 00:10:22 +0000 Received: from laweleka.osafoundation.org ([204.152.186.98] helo=smtp.osafoundation.org) by maggie.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DrPOm-0006j6-KJ for w3c-dist-auth@w3.org; Sun, 10 Jul 2005 00:10:24 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61BD1142258; Sat, 9 Jul 2005 17:10:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.osafoundation.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (laweleka.osafoundation.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 24576-04; Sat, 9 Jul 2005 17:10:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lisa.local (unknown [198.144.201.116]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6144142255; Sat, 9 Jul 2005 17:10:15 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 09 Jul 2005 17:10:05 -0700 To: "Julian Reschke" Cc: webdav References: <42CE66E3.5030101@gmx.de> <42CEB89F.2000206@gmx.de> <42CEC05B.8010808@gmx.de> <42CF7AB8.1040506@gmx.de> From: "Lisa Dusseault" Organization: OSAF Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=iso-8859-15 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <42CF7AB8.1040506@gmx.de> User-Agent: Opera M2/8.01 (MacPPC, build 2092) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new and clamav at osafoundation.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 X-W3C-Scan-Sig: maggie.w3.org 1DrPOm-0006j6-KJ 7651ccf4825d84e95ce20d7e4d5c65f4 X-Original-To: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Subject: Re: RFC2518bis, was: BIND and live property value consistency X-Archived-At: http://www.w3.org/mid/op.stn723gyeochem@lisa.local Resent-From: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9738 X-Loop: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Resent-Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Precedence: list List-Id: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: Resent-Message-Id: Resent-Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 00:10:23 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, 09 Jul 2005 00:20:24 -0700, Julian Reschke =20 wrote: > > Let's rephrase that: you say that you think you have the editor role fo= r =20 > RFC2518bis. In case you'd be starting to work on it again, where would = =20 > you look for the next to-do item? > I am starting work on it again, and I'm reviewing the latest draft to see= =20 which features still remain that haven't had demonstrated implementation = =20 and interoperability. I figured I'd catch up with the main to-do list =20 once it had been updated or regenerated. Lisa From w3c-dist-auth-request@frink.w3.org Sat Jul 09 20:20:41 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DrPYn-0002Pk-CZ for webdav-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 09 Jul 2005 20:20:41 -0400 Received: from frink.w3.org (frink.w3.org [128.30.52.16]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA05279 for ; Sat, 9 Jul 2005 20:20:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists by frink.w3.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1DrPY9-0003dG-W5 for w3c-dist-auth-dist@listhub.w3.org; Sun, 10 Jul 2005 00:20:02 +0000 Received: from lisa.w3.org ([128.30.52.41]) by frink.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DrPY8-0003T4-7c for w3c-dist-auth@listhub.w3.org; Sun, 10 Jul 2005 00:20:00 +0000 Received: from laweleka.osafoundation.org ([204.152.186.98] helo=smtp.osafoundation.org) by lisa.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DrPY4-0006RF-0v for w3c-dist-auth@w3c.org; Sun, 10 Jul 2005 00:20:00 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E275142293; Sat, 9 Jul 2005 17:19:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.osafoundation.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (laweleka.osafoundation.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 21605-08; Sat, 9 Jul 2005 17:19:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lisa.local (unknown [198.144.201.116]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0CE5614228F; Sat, 9 Jul 2005 17:19:53 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 09 Jul 2005 17:19:47 -0700 To: "Julian Reschke" Cc: "Webdav WG" References: <42CF7A5A.5000908@gmx.de> <42CFFE03.6020300@gmx.de> From: "Lisa Dusseault" Organization: OSAF Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=iso-8859-15 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <42CFFE03.6020300@gmx.de> User-Agent: Opera M2/8.01 (MacPPC, build 2092) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new and clamav at osafoundation.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 X-W3C-Scan-Sig: lisa.w3.org 1DrPY4-0006RF-0v 187fefbef5a03e1ea275913e7aa13f63 X-Original-To: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Subject: Re: Support for non-DAV collections X-Archived-At: http://www.w3.org/mid/op.stn8i9sseochem@lisa.local Resent-From: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9739 X-Loop: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Resent-Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Precedence: list List-Id: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: Resent-Message-Id: Resent-Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 00:20:01 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, 09 Jul 2005 09:40:35 -0700, Julian Reschke =20 wrote: > > Lisa Dusseault wrote: >> It depends on whether we're going for Draft Standard or not -- and it = =20 >> was my understanding that Ted is keeping the WG open so we can bring = =20 >> WebDAV to Draft Standard. To go to Draft Standard, we need to take a= =20 >> Proposed Standard and remove the options that aren't implemented, =20 >> interoperable and tested 2x2. > > Yes. Every server that supports collections as WebDAV compliant =20 > resources already supports this feature. And every client that issues a= =20 > PROPFIND without using other WebDAV methods already uses it. I'm not =20 > sure what kind of additional test you're looking for. That's not how I read it. I understood that paragraph as saying that a =20 server could call something a collection (using the resourcetype property= ) =20 but have it be non-WebDAV-compliant resources. In fact "not be WebDAV =20 compliant" is in the first sentence. So that's why I asked if anybody ha= d =20 implemented non-WebDAV-compliant resources that still had the =20 DAV:collection element in the DAV:resourcetype property. I can imagine =20 how one might use this -- for example, it might show up in its parent as = a =20 collection yet not itself support direct PROPFIND requests -- but I am =20 unaware of any implementations. > >> Another option that isn't broadly implemented, if at all, is the =20 >> support for locks that aren't write locks or aren't exclusive locks =20 >> (since only exclusive write locks are fully defined). Are there any = =20 >> implementations at all that do locks that aren't write locks? Didn't= =20 >> Adobe or somebody implement shared locks? > > Me confused. > > The only type of locks defined in RFC2518 are write locks. Write locks = =20 > can be shared or exclusive, and there are both servers implementing thi= s =20 > and clients using it. Looking at =20 > , issue #96, the WG has =20 > discussed this over three years ago and concluced that they are indeed = =20 > implemented. > I also figured that shared locks were implemented already although I'm no= t =20 sure they satisfy the 2x2 test requirement. But what about non-write =20 locks? Has anybody implemented locks that aren't write locks and don't =20 advertise themselves as such? The way this impacts the document is that sections 6 and 7 could be merge= d =20 if there are effectively only write locks. Section 6 discusses locks, =20 section 7 discusses specifically write locks. Lisa From w3c-dist-auth-request@frink.w3.org Sun Jul 10 04:23:53 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DrX6P-0001Vp-3M for webdav-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 10 Jul 2005 04:23:53 -0400 Received: from frink.w3.org (frink.w3.org [128.30.52.16]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA17530 for ; Sun, 10 Jul 2005 04:23:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists by frink.w3.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1DrX4l-0005Xv-B4 for w3c-dist-auth-dist@listhub.w3.org; Sun, 10 Jul 2005 08:22:11 +0000 Received: from maggie.w3.org ([193.51.208.68]) by frink.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DrX4j-0005Wd-4h for w3c-dist-auth@listhub.w3.org; Sun, 10 Jul 2005 08:22:09 +0000 Received: from pop.gmx.net ([213.165.64.20] helo=mail.gmx.net) by maggie.w3.org with smtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DrX4h-00056u-5Q for w3c-dist-auth@w3.org; Sun, 10 Jul 2005 08:22:10 +0000 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 10 Jul 2005 08:22:03 -0000 Received: from p508FB4C1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de (EHLO [192.168.178.21]) [80.143.180.193] by mail.gmx.net (mp012) with SMTP; 10 Jul 2005 10:22:03 +0200 X-Authenticated: #1915285 Message-ID: <42D0DAA8.3060907@gmx.de> Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 10:22:00 +0200 From: Julian Reschke User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (Windows/20050317) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Lisa Dusseault CC: webdav References: <42CE66E3.5030101@gmx.de> <42CEB89F.2000206@gmx.de> <42CEC05B.8010808@gmx.de> <42CF7AB8.1040506@gmx.de> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 X-W3C-Scan-Sig: maggie.w3.org 1DrX4h-00056u-5Q 01a7536564c46914882145d87c58423b X-Original-To: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Subject: Re: RFC2518bis, was: BIND and live property value consistency X-Archived-At: http://www.w3.org/mid/42D0DAA8.3060907@gmx.de Resent-From: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9740 X-Loop: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Resent-Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Precedence: list List-Id: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: Resent-Message-Id: Resent-Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 08:22:11 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lisa Dusseault wrote: > > > On Sat, 09 Jul 2005 00:20:24 -0700, Julian Reschke > wrote: > >> >> Let's rephrase that: you say that you think you have the editor role >> for RFC2518bis. In case you'd be starting to work on it again, where >> would you look for the next to-do item? >> > > I am starting work on it again, and I'm reviewing the latest draft to > see which features still remain that haven't had demonstrated > implementation and interoperability. I figured I'd catch up with the > main to-do list once it had been updated or regenerated. If I understand you right, you will not update (and keep up-to-date) at least one of the two issues lists we have? Some more thoughts about how I think we need to proceed with RFC2518bis: - Any change compared to RFC2518 (unless really strictly editorial) needs to have a well-understood issue description; and a WG consensus for changing it. - Consequently, changes in the latest draft that can't be traced to one of these will need to be backed out. - RFC2518bis needs to have a complete appendix listing all non-editorial changes compared to RFC2518. - If we think that RFC2518 contains stuff for which there is no demonstrated interoperability, we should add that to the issues list as action item. Finally, - we go through the issues list until all issues are closed (where "closed" can also mean that the WG just states that it was unable to come up with a resolution) Best regards, Julian From w3c-dist-auth-request@frink.w3.org Sun Jul 10 04:45:05 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DrXQv-0007am-GB for webdav-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 10 Jul 2005 04:45:05 -0400 Received: from frink.w3.org (frink.w3.org [128.30.52.16]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA18333 for ; Sun, 10 Jul 2005 04:45:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists by frink.w3.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1DrXQA-0001C5-0h for w3c-dist-auth-dist@listhub.w3.org; Sun, 10 Jul 2005 08:44:18 +0000 Received: from lisa.w3.org ([128.30.52.41]) by frink.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DrXQ8-0001BX-CE for w3c-dist-auth@listhub.w3.org; Sun, 10 Jul 2005 08:44:16 +0000 Received: from mail.gmx.de ([213.165.64.20] helo=mail.gmx.net) by lisa.w3.org with smtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DrXQ3-00056C-I8 for w3c-dist-auth@w3c.org; Sun, 10 Jul 2005 08:44:16 +0000 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 10 Jul 2005 08:44:09 -0000 Received: from p508FB4C1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de (EHLO [192.168.178.21]) [80.143.180.193] by mail.gmx.net (mp011) with SMTP; 10 Jul 2005 10:44:09 +0200 X-Authenticated: #1915285 Message-ID: <42D0DFD5.6060901@gmx.de> Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 10:44:05 +0200 From: Julian Reschke User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (Windows/20050317) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Lisa Dusseault CC: Webdav WG References: <42CF7A5A.5000908@gmx.de> <42CFFE03.6020300@gmx.de> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 X-W3C-Scan-Sig: lisa.w3.org 1DrXQ3-00056C-I8 c9fed94769d028dca05d2c02606a616d X-Original-To: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Subject: Re: Support for non-DAV collections X-Archived-At: http://www.w3.org/mid/42D0DFD5.6060901@gmx.de Resent-From: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9741 X-Loop: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Resent-Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Precedence: list List-Id: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: Resent-Message-Id: Resent-Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 08:44:18 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lisa Dusseault wrote: > On Sat, 09 Jul 2005 09:40:35 -0700, Julian Reschke > wrote: > >> >> Lisa Dusseault wrote: >> >>> It depends on whether we're going for Draft Standard or not -- and >>> it was my understanding that Ted is keeping the WG open so we can >>> bring WebDAV to Draft Standard. To go to Draft Standard, we need >>> to take a Proposed Standard and remove the options that aren't >>> implemented, interoperable and tested 2x2. >> >> >> Yes. Every server that supports collections as WebDAV compliant >> resources already supports this feature. And every client that issues >> a PROPFIND without using other WebDAV methods already uses it. I'm >> not sure what kind of additional test you're looking for. > > > That's not how I read it. I understood that paragraph as saying that a > server could call something a collection (using the resourcetype > property) but have it be non-WebDAV-compliant resources. In fact "not > be WebDAV compliant" is in the first sentence. So that's why I asked > if anybody had implemented non-WebDAV-compliant resources that still > had the DAV:collection element in the DAV:resourcetype property. I can What the spec says is that if a server has something that is a collection, but if the collection (or it's members) are not DAV-1-compliant resources, the server still can return a DAV:resourcetype of DAV:collection. That is, to be a DAV:collection is a feature that is ortogonal to other WebDAV features. BTW: this implies that the collection supports PROPFIND, otherwise there'd be no way to return a resource type. I think it's a very good approach, because it offers servers to pick one specific WebDAV feature (collection) without having to reach full WebDAV compliance. In general, this is how many features in WebDAV work. For instance, a server can go ahead and implement one single WebDAV method (for instance, MKCOL), and nothing else. As long as it claims WebDAV compliance (through the DAV response header), this is just fine. So removing the sentence doesn't really change what the spec defines; it just makes one implementation option less obvious -- can you give a specific example where removing the statement would change *any* of the current interop requirements? > imagine how one might use this -- for example, it might show up in its > parent as a collection yet not itself support direct PROPFIND requests > -- but I am unaware of any implementations. This is what 5.2, paragraph 4 explicitly states (): "Collection resources MAY list the URLs of non-WebDAV compliant children in the HTTP URL namespace hierarchy as internal members but are not required to do so. For example, if the resource with URL http://foo.com/bar/blah is not WebDAV compliant and the URL http://foo.com/bar/ identifies a collection then URL http://foo.com/bar/blah may or may not be an internal member of the collection with URL http://foo.com/bar/." > ... Best regards, Julian From w3c-dist-auth-request@frink.w3.org Sun Jul 10 04:51:25 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DrXX3-00018O-1B for webdav-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 10 Jul 2005 04:51:25 -0400 Received: from frink.w3.org (frink.w3.org [128.30.52.16]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA18608 for ; Sun, 10 Jul 2005 04:51:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists by frink.w3.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1DrXWQ-0003Oz-Bo for w3c-dist-auth-dist@listhub.w3.org; Sun, 10 Jul 2005 08:50:46 +0000 Received: from bart.w3.org ([128.30.52.40]) by frink.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DrXWO-0003OI-I3 for w3c-dist-auth@listhub.w3.org; Sun, 10 Jul 2005 08:50:44 +0000 Received: from mail.gmx.net ([213.165.64.20]) by bart.w3.org with smtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DrXWL-0000yM-R5 for w3c-dist-auth@w3c.org; Sun, 10 Jul 2005 08:50:44 +0000 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 10 Jul 2005 08:50:39 -0000 Received: from p508FB4C1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de (EHLO [192.168.178.21]) [80.143.180.193] by mail.gmx.net (mp007) with SMTP; 10 Jul 2005 10:50:39 +0200 X-Authenticated: #1915285 Message-ID: <42D0E15B.8000807@gmx.de> Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 10:50:35 +0200 From: Julian Reschke User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (Windows/20050317) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Lisa Dusseault CC: Webdav WG References: <42CF7A5A.5000908@gmx.de> <42CFFE03.6020300@gmx.de> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 X-W3C-Scan-Sig: bart.w3.org 1DrXWL-0000yM-R5 24c808cd34091fc1645df1c5cbda487d X-Original-To: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Subject: Locking feature interop, was: Support for non-DAV collections X-Archived-At: http://www.w3.org/mid/42D0E15B.8000807@gmx.de Resent-From: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9742 X-Loop: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Resent-Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Precedence: list List-Id: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: Resent-Message-Id: Resent-Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 08:50:46 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lisa Dusseault wrote: > ... >>> Another option that isn't broadly implemented, if at all, is the >>> support for locks that aren't write locks or aren't exclusive locks >>> (since only exclusive write locks are fully defined). Are there >>> any implementations at all that do locks that aren't write locks? >>> Didn't Adobe or somebody implement shared locks? >> >> >> Me confused. >> >> The only type of locks defined in RFC2518 are write locks. Write >> locks can be shared or exclusive, and there are both servers >> implementing this and clients using it. Looking at >> , issue #96, the WG has >> discussed this over three years ago and concluced that they are >> indeed implemented. >> > I also figured that shared locks were implemented already although I'm > not sure they satisfy the 2x2 test requirement. But what about I fear I need to make a procedural comment again. The question of shared lock interop *is* on the issues list, it *has* been dicussed three years ago, and it has been marked as resolved. Do you want to re-open that discussion? > non-write locks? Has anybody implemented locks that aren't write locks > and don't advertise themselves as such? > The way this impacts the document is that sections 6 and 7 could be > merged if there are effectively only write locks. Section 6 discusses > locks, section 7 discusses specifically write locks. RFC2518 has splitted the locking feature into some generic elements, and specific write-lock support for a very good reason. I don't see any compelling reason at all to change that. Best regards, Julian From w3c-dist-auth-request@frink.w3.org Sun Jul 10 04:56:17 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DrXbk-0002GL-Vu for webdav-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 10 Jul 2005 04:56:17 -0400 Received: from frink.w3.org (frink.w3.org [128.30.52.16]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA18757 for ; Sun, 10 Jul 2005 04:56:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists by frink.w3.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1DrXb5-0004Db-C7 for w3c-dist-auth-dist@listhub.w3.org; Sun, 10 Jul 2005 08:55:35 +0000 Received: from bart.w3.org ([128.30.52.40]) by frink.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DrXb4-0004D3-O7 for w3c-dist-auth@listhub.w3.org; Sun, 10 Jul 2005 08:55:34 +0000 Received: from pop.gmx.net ([213.165.64.20] helo=mail.gmx.net) by bart.w3.org with smtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DrXb2-0001iQ-F7 for w3c-dist-auth@w3.org; Sun, 10 Jul 2005 08:55:34 +0000 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 10 Jul 2005 08:55:31 -0000 Received: from p508FB4C1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de (EHLO [192.168.178.21]) [80.143.180.193] by mail.gmx.net (mp014) with SMTP; 10 Jul 2005 10:55:31 +0200 X-Authenticated: #1915285 Message-ID: <42D0E27F.2090104@gmx.de> Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 10:55:27 +0200 From: Julian Reschke User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (Windows/20050317) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Julian Reschke CC: Lisa Dusseault , webdav References: <42CE66E3.5030101@gmx.de> <42CEB89F.2000206@gmx.de> <42CEC05B.8010808@gmx.de> <42CF7AB8.1040506@gmx.de> <42D0DAA8.3060907@gmx.de> In-Reply-To: <42D0DAA8.3060907@gmx.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 X-W3C-Scan-Sig: bart.w3.org 1DrXb2-0001iQ-F7 c518bd12ff67efab2514970680bf318a X-Original-To: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Subject: Re: RFC2518bis, was: BIND and live property value consistency X-Archived-At: http://www.w3.org/mid/42D0E27F.2090104@gmx.de Resent-From: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9743 X-Loop: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Resent-Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Precedence: list List-Id: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: Resent-Message-Id: Resent-Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 08:55:35 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Julian Reschke wrote: > ... > Finally, > > - we go through the issues list until all issues are closed (where > "closed" can also mean that the WG just states that it was unable to > come up with a resolution) > > Best regards, Julian One additional thought: If -- while doing this -- we find that we can't resolve everything or if we find features that we think need to be kept although no interop was demonstrated, not going to "Draft" standard and republishing as "Proposed" should be considered a viable option (compared to giving up). In practice, few people really understand the different standards levels; and not updating the spec (with many known and resolved(!) issues) at all certainly is worse then doing the update, but not progressing on the standards ladder. Best regards, Julian From w3c-dist-auth-request@frink.w3.org Sun Jul 10 05:37:10 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DrYFK-0005XU-Af for webdav-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 10 Jul 2005 05:37:10 -0400 Received: from frink.w3.org (frink.w3.org [128.30.52.16]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA20081 for ; Sun, 10 Jul 2005 05:37:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists by frink.w3.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1DrYEB-0002nt-SV for w3c-dist-auth-dist@listhub.w3.org; Sun, 10 Jul 2005 09:35:59 +0000 Received: from bart.w3.org ([128.30.52.40]) by frink.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DrYE8-0002nE-Qu for w3c-dist-auth@listhub.w3.org; Sun, 10 Jul 2005 09:35:56 +0000 Received: from medusa.mdlink.de ([213.211.192.34] helo=mail.mdlink.net) by bart.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DrYE5-0007GS-3Z for w3c-dist-auth@w3c.org; Sun, 10 Jul 2005 09:35:56 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.mdlink.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1300B31D07C for ; Sun, 10 Jul 2005 11:30:17 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [192.168.0.233] (port-ip-213-211-241-152.reverse.mdcc-fun.de [213.211.241.152]) by mail.mdlink.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4F6B31D07A for ; Sun, 10 Jul 2005 11:30:16 +0200 (CEST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v730) In-Reply-To: References: <42CF7A5A.5000908@gmx.de> <42CFFE03.6020300@gmx.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Helge Hess Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 11:35:45 +0200 To: Webdav WG X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.730) X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.0 X-W3C-Scan-Sig: bart.w3.org 1DrYE5-0007GS-3Z b3f846526f707deba4a59a8ba9e5c2ac X-Original-To: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Subject: Re: Support for non-DAV collections X-Archived-At: http://www.w3.org/mid/EFED513D-936E-484F-8CFF-1006212460C3@opengroupware.org Resent-From: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9744 X-Loop: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Resent-Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Precedence: list List-Id: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: Resent-Message-Id: Resent-Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 09:35:59 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 10. Jul 2005, at 02:19 Uhr, Lisa Dusseault wrote: > So that's why I asked if anybody had implemented non-WebDAV- > compliant resources that still had the DAV:collection element in > the DAV:resourcetype property. As Julian mentioned some GroupDAV servers (like Citadel) are in this category (implement PROPFIND, return a collection but not allow additional DAV operations). Having said that this is probably not relevant for an IETF standard. Greets, Helge -- http://docs.opengroupware.org/Members/helge/ OpenGroupware.org From w3c-dist-auth-request@frink.w3.org Sun Jul 10 05:50:07 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DrYRq-0000mO-UO for webdav-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 10 Jul 2005 05:50:06 -0400 Received: from frink.w3.org (frink.w3.org [128.30.52.16]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA20659 for ; Sun, 10 Jul 2005 05:50:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists by frink.w3.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1DrYRA-000695-5Z for w3c-dist-auth-dist@listhub.w3.org; Sun, 10 Jul 2005 09:49:24 +0000 Received: from lisa.w3.org ([128.30.52.41]) by frink.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DrYR9-00068X-CC for w3c-dist-auth@listhub.w3.org; Sun, 10 Jul 2005 09:49:23 +0000 Received: from pop.gmx.net ([213.165.64.20] helo=mail.gmx.net) by lisa.w3.org with smtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DrYR6-0003l4-JU for w3c-dist-auth@w3c.org; Sun, 10 Jul 2005 09:49:23 +0000 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 10 Jul 2005 09:49:18 -0000 Received: from p508FB4C1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de (EHLO [192.168.178.21]) [80.143.180.193] by mail.gmx.net (mp003) with SMTP; 10 Jul 2005 11:49:18 +0200 X-Authenticated: #1915285 Message-ID: <42D0EF18.2050309@gmx.de> Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 11:49:12 +0200 From: Julian Reschke User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (Windows/20050317) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Helge Hess CC: Webdav WG References: <42CF7A5A.5000908@gmx.de> <42CFFE03.6020300@gmx.de> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 X-W3C-Scan-Sig: lisa.w3.org 1DrYR6-0003l4-JU f300340562c7978ba1993427ceaf8a8e X-Original-To: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Subject: Re: Support for non-DAV collections X-Archived-At: http://www.w3.org/mid/42D0EF18.2050309@gmx.de Resent-From: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9745 X-Loop: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Resent-Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Precedence: list List-Id: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: Resent-Message-Id: Resent-Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 09:49:24 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Helge Hess wrote: > > On 10. Jul 2005, at 02:19 Uhr, Lisa Dusseault wrote: > >> So that's why I asked if anybody had implemented non-WebDAV- compliant >> resources that still had the DAV:collection element in the >> DAV:resourcetype property. > > > As Julian mentioned some GroupDAV servers (like Citadel) are in this > category (implement PROPFIND, return a collection but not allow > additional DAV operations). > > Having said that this is probably not relevant for an IETF standard. As Helge just kind-of proved; it really doesn't matter what RFC2518bis says on this topic. Server implementers will do what makes sense to them anyway :-). So removing that sentence will not affect what those who don't claim WebDAV compliance do anyway. On the other hand, it may give people that do want to re-use parts of WebDAV without doing a fully compliant server a useful hint about what can be done. So I still see no compelling reason to that change: removing the sentence will have no effect on interop requirements at all. Best regards, Julian From w3c-dist-auth-request@frink.w3.org Sun Jul 10 06:55:53 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DrZTV-0000aZ-Gr for webdav-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 10 Jul 2005 06:55:53 -0400 Received: from frink.w3.org (frink.w3.org [128.30.52.16]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA23180 for ; Sun, 10 Jul 2005 06:55:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists by frink.w3.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1DrZS7-0003LX-Am for w3c-dist-auth-dist@listhub.w3.org; Sun, 10 Jul 2005 10:54:27 +0000 Received: from bart.w3.org ([128.30.52.40]) by frink.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DrZS6-0003Kz-2w for w3c-dist-auth@listhub.w3.org; Sun, 10 Jul 2005 10:54:26 +0000 Received: from medusa.mdlink.de ([213.211.192.34] helo=mail.mdlink.net) by bart.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DrZS2-00016M-JL for w3c-dist-auth@w3c.org; Sun, 10 Jul 2005 10:54:26 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.mdlink.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 862E231D0E2; Sun, 10 Jul 2005 12:48:51 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [192.168.0.233] (port-ip-213-211-241-152.reverse.mdcc-fun.de [213.211.241.152]) by mail.mdlink.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2ED9C31D0D2; Sun, 10 Jul 2005 12:48:51 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: <42D0EF18.2050309@gmx.de> References: <42CF7A5A.5000908@gmx.de> <42CFFE03.6020300@gmx.de> <42D0EF18.2050309@gmx.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v730) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <894F99C1-BDD4-4E82-93DC-8CDBC1B8F8A2@opengroupware.org> Cc: Webdav WG Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Helge Hess Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 12:54:20 +0200 To: Julian Reschke X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.730) X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 X-W3C-Scan-Sig: bart.w3.org 1DrZS2-00016M-JL 7d9eada2c65924965c803596b135bc91 X-Original-To: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Subject: Re: Support for non-DAV collections X-Archived-At: http://www.w3.org/mid/894F99C1-BDD4-4E82-93DC-8CDBC1B8F8A2@opengroupware.org Resent-From: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9746 X-Loop: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Resent-Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Precedence: list List-Id: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: Resent-Message-Id: Resent-Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 10:54:27 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 10. Jul 2005, at 11:49 Uhr, Julian Reschke wrote: > So removing that sentence will not affect what those who don't > claim WebDAV compliance do anyway. On the other hand, it may give > people that do want to re-use parts of WebDAV without doing a fully > compliant server a useful hint about what can be done. I don't think suggestions on how to subset belong into a standard for some specific protocol? > So I still see no compelling reason to that change: removing the > sentence will have no effect on interop requirements at all. Can't tell about the interop requirements, but removing superflous things is always a good thing. Greets, Helge -- http://docs.opengroupware.org/Members/helge/ OpenGroupware.org From w3c-dist-auth-request@frink.w3.org Sun Jul 10 07:10:10 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DrZhK-000457-6H for webdav-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 10 Jul 2005 07:10:10 -0400 Received: from frink.w3.org (frink.w3.org [128.30.52.16]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA23819 for ; Sun, 10 Jul 2005 07:10:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists by frink.w3.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1DrZgb-00074y-S4 for w3c-dist-auth-dist@listhub.w3.org; Sun, 10 Jul 2005 11:09:25 +0000 Received: from lisa.w3.org ([128.30.52.41]) by frink.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DrZgZ-00074K-7E for w3c-dist-auth@listhub.w3.org; Sun, 10 Jul 2005 11:09:23 +0000 Received: from mail.gmx.net ([213.165.64.20]) by lisa.w3.org with smtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DrZgW-0004FV-Od for w3c-dist-auth@w3c.org; Sun, 10 Jul 2005 11:09:23 +0000 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 10 Jul 2005 11:09:19 -0000 Received: from p508FB4C1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de (EHLO [192.168.178.21]) [80.143.180.193] by mail.gmx.net (mp023) with SMTP; 10 Jul 2005 13:09:19 +0200 X-Authenticated: #1915285 Message-ID: <42D101D1.9080904@gmx.de> Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 13:09:05 +0200 From: Julian Reschke User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (Windows/20050317) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Helge Hess CC: Webdav WG References: <42CF7A5A.5000908@gmx.de> <42CFFE03.6020300@gmx.de> <42D0EF18.2050309@gmx.de> <894F99C1-BDD4-4E82-93DC-8CDBC1B8F8A2@opengroupware.org> In-Reply-To: <894F99C1-BDD4-4E82-93DC-8CDBC1B8F8A2@opengroupware.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 X-W3C-Scan-Sig: lisa.w3.org 1DrZgW-0004FV-Od 5ea476ec490fa5197fa28da7597a9736 X-Original-To: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Subject: Re: Support for non-DAV collections X-Archived-At: http://www.w3.org/mid/42D101D1.9080904@gmx.de Resent-From: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9747 X-Loop: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Resent-Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Precedence: list List-Id: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: Resent-Message-Id: Resent-Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 11:09:25 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Helge Hess wrote: > Can't tell about the interop requirements, but removing superflous > things is always a good thing. Funny enough, that's something I violently agree with :-) On the other hand, when going from Proposed to Draft, another good rule is not to change things that aren't broken. But if we all agree that we *do* want to remove paragraphs that are superfluous (because they neither define anything specific, nor are needed as explanations), that's fine with me. Let's just be consistent in that. Best regards, Julian From w3c-dist-auth-request@frink.w3.org Sun Jul 10 08:06:13 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DraZX-0001ga-0h for webdav-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 10 Jul 2005 08:06:13 -0400 Received: from frink.w3.org (frink.w3.org [128.30.52.16]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA27022 for ; Sun, 10 Jul 2005 08:06:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists by frink.w3.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1DraYK-000214-5P for w3c-dist-auth-dist@listhub.w3.org; Sun, 10 Jul 2005 12:04:56 +0000 Received: from bart.w3.org ([128.30.52.40]) by frink.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DraYF-00020Q-LP for w3c-dist-auth@listhub.w3.org; Sun, 10 Jul 2005 12:04:51 +0000 Received: from sj-iport-4.cisco.com ([171.68.10.86]) by bart.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DraYD-0003hH-53 for w3c-dist-auth@w3.org; Sun, 10 Jul 2005 12:04:51 +0000 Received: from sj-core-3.cisco.com (171.68.223.137) by sj-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP; 10 Jul 2005 05:04:48 -0700 Received: from sea-alpha-e2k3.sea-alpha.cisco.com (sea-alpha-e2k3.cisco.com [10.93.132.88]) by sj-core-3.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j6AC4j6p007877; Sun, 10 Jul 2005 05:04:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] ([171.68.225.134]) by sea-alpha-e2k3.sea-alpha.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Sun, 10 Jul 2005 05:09:08 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.1.0.040913 Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 08:04:39 -0400 From: Cullen Jennings To: Cullen Jennings , WebDav CC: Brian Korver , Lisa Dusseault Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Jul 2005 12:09:08.0883 (UTC) FILETIME=[2CFCC630:01C58548] X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.4 X-W3C-Scan-Sig: bart.w3.org 1DraYD-0003hH-53 2540e28a270234fcb8a92f162b6479c9 X-Original-To: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Subject: Re: WGLC draft-ietf-webdav-quota-07 X-Archived-At: http://www.w3.org/mid/BEF68717.4243C%25fluffy@cisco.com Resent-From: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9748 X-Loop: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Resent-Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Precedence: list List-Id: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: Resent-Message-Id: Resent-Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 12:04:56 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think we have consensus on all the quota related issues, I plan to put together the appropriate email for Ted and send this off to the AD sometime soon. Cullen PS. I don't think we should be holding our breath for a real quick response. By making this WGLC end right as everyone was getting into the panic of writing drafts for the next IETF, then sending to Ted right before IETF, I picked the absolute worst time to do it. At least the WG has got it's part done and we can move on the next thing. On 6/13/05 5:59 PM, "Cullen Jennings" wrote: > > > I would like to start working group last call > > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-webdav-quota-07.txt > > This WGCL will end on June 27th so please have your comments emailed to this > list before then. > > Thank you, Cullen From w3c-dist-auth-request@frink.w3.org Sun Jul 10 08:06:46 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Draa5-0001hB-U3 for webdav-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 10 Jul 2005 08:06:46 -0400 Received: from frink.w3.org (frink.w3.org [128.30.52.16]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA27062 for ; Sun, 10 Jul 2005 08:06:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists by frink.w3.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1DraZX-0002Y6-Th for w3c-dist-auth-dist@listhub.w3.org; Sun, 10 Jul 2005 12:06:11 +0000 Received: from maggie.w3.org ([193.51.208.68]) by frink.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DraZW-0002Wd-FX for w3c-dist-auth@listhub.w3.org; Sun, 10 Jul 2005 12:06:10 +0000 Received: from sj-iport-5.cisco.com ([171.68.10.87]) by maggie.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DraZU-0004Yk-A0 for w3c-dist-auth@w3.org; Sun, 10 Jul 2005 12:06:12 +0000 Received: from sj-core-3.cisco.com (171.68.223.137) by sj-iport-5.cisco.com with ESMTP; 10 Jul 2005 05:06:03 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: i="3.93,276,1115017200"; d="scan'208"; a="197344470:sNHT28901228" Received: from sea-alpha-e2k3.sea-alpha.cisco.com (sea-alpha-e2k3.cisco.com [10.93.132.88]) by sj-core-3.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j6AC616p008550; Sun, 10 Jul 2005 05:06:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] ([171.68.225.134]) by sea-alpha-e2k3.sea-alpha.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Sun, 10 Jul 2005 05:10:24 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.1.0.040913 Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 08:05:55 -0400 From: Cullen Jennings To: Julian Reschke CC: WebDav , Lisa Dusseault Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <42C7C885.40908@gmx.de> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Jul 2005 12:10:24.0724 (UTC) FILETIME=[5A313140:01C58548] X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 X-W3C-Scan-Sig: maggie.w3.org 1DraZU-0004Yk-A0 da38d8d47a7d10afe4effba778a8bc39 X-Original-To: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Subject: Re: WGLC draft-ietf-webdav-quota-07 X-Archived-At: http://www.w3.org/mid/BEF68763.4243C%25fluffy@cisco.com Resent-From: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9749 X-Loop: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Resent-Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Precedence: list List-Id: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: Resent-Message-Id: Resent-Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 12:06:11 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 7/3/05 7:14 AM, "Julian Reschke" wrote: > Cullen Jennings wrote: >> 2) In 2518, if a Dav server that had a disk full situations, the server >> would return a 507. Now with quota there are two reasons a 507 could happen, >> a disk full (as before) or a quota exceeded. The quota exceeded is a very > > RFC2518 () says: > > "The 507 (Insufficient Storage) status code means the method could not > be performed on the resource because the server is unable to store the > representation needed to successfully complete the request. This > condition is considered to be temporary. If the request which received > this status code was the result of a user action, the request MUST NOT > be repeated until it is requested by a separate user action." > > which I think can be understood to include storage limits not imposed by > the hardware. So I'd call that a clarification, not extension. > >> similar but slightly different error. To enable a client to display an error > > Yes. > >> message to a human user to differentiate these two things, a server that had >> a disk full error would return a 507 with a DeltaV style error body that >> indicated the disk was full. Is your issue that a) this should not be > > The two precondition names allow a client to distinguish between both. > For instance, a *nix file system driver could use that information to > generate the proper *nix error (which is different for disk size limits > and quota limits). Ok, I'm sure I get it now - thanks. > >> defined in the quota document b) you don't think we should do this at all >> and the DeltaV error for a disk full should be the same as the response for >> quota exceeded? In trying to summarize the issues I realized I did not >> understand what you were concerned with and more specifically exactly what >> you would propose we change to fix the concern. > > No, my concern is indeed a different one. > > In general, systems consider disk limits and quota different things, and > there are different APIs to discover/manipulate them, and different > status codes to distinguish between both ("in general", i.e. I am aware > that there are systems that treat both the same way). > > My preference would have been that the quota properties are indeed only > used for quotas; and that if people need to get information about disk > limits as well, we handle them as separate properties. > > The quota spec currently doesn't precisely define what it understands as > "quota". It introduces some requirements in > 1.2> > without ever mentioning disk limits, but then goes on to say > ( .3.p.5>: > > "Note that there may be a number of distinct but overlapping limits, > which may even include physical media limits." > > So if it defines physical disk limits to be a kind of quota, it would be > better to express that in a proper definition of the term "quota", > instead of just hinting at it later in the spec. Again, my preference > would have been to treat them as separate things, with different live > properties and different precondition names (fortunately, the latter > we're added). > Ok, I feel very comfortable that we have consensus on how the protocol should work here. It sounds like the protocol has what you want in that there are separate pre-conditions for the errors and we have not closed the door on a future draft setting up additional properties to discover physical media limits. Thanks, Cullen From w3c-dist-auth-request@frink.w3.org Sun Jul 10 09:03:53 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DrbTL-0006Qp-5r for webdav-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 10 Jul 2005 09:03:53 -0400 Received: from frink.w3.org (frink.w3.org [128.30.52.16]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA29752 for ; Sun, 10 Jul 2005 09:03:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists by frink.w3.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1DrbRc-0004pl-5h for w3c-dist-auth-dist@listhub.w3.org; Sun, 10 Jul 2005 13:02:04 +0000 Received: from maggie.w3.org ([193.51.208.68]) by frink.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DrbRY-0004pB-Pp for w3c-dist-auth@listhub.w3.org; Sun, 10 Jul 2005 13:02:01 +0000 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by maggie.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DrbRW-0002Ki-Mf for w3c-dist-auth@w3.org; Sun, 10 Jul 2005 13:02:02 +0000 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (64.102.124.13) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 10 Jul 2005 06:01:55 -0700 X-BrightmailFiltered: true X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-IronPort-AV: i="3.93,276,1115017200"; d="scan'208"; a="1173479:sNHT21967584" Received: from sea-alpha-e2k3.sea-alpha.cisco.com (sea-alpha-e2k3.cisco.com [10.93.132.88]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j6AD1sVu001877 for ; Sun, 10 Jul 2005 09:01:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] ([171.68.225.134]) by sea-alpha-e2k3.sea-alpha.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Sun, 10 Jul 2005 06:06:17 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.1.0.040913 Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 09:01:48 -0400 From: Cullen Jennings To: WebDav Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Jul 2005 13:06:17.0709 (UTC) FILETIME=[28BA19D0:01C58550] X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.1 X-W3C-Scan-Sig: maggie.w3.org 1DrbRW-0002Ki-Mf c8f314d5186a41837f2872b8a52c3230 X-Original-To: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Subject: Quota - Chair WG Write-up X-Archived-At: http://www.w3.org/mid/BEF6947C.42453%25fluffy@cisco.com Resent-From: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9750 X-Loop: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Resent-Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Precedence: list List-Id: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: Resent-Message-Id: Resent-Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 13:02:04 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The text below is what I plan to send off with the request for publication. --------------------------------------------- 1.a) Have the chairs personally reviewed this version of the Internet Draft (ID), and in particular, do they believe this ID is ready to forward to the IESG for publication? Yes 1.b) Has the document had adequate review from both key WG members and key non-WG members? Do you have any concerns about the depth or breadth of the reviews that have been performed? The document has had significant review and discussion over several years. The active participants in the WG is currently very small and thought only two people made comments during WGLC, it is probably not possible to get wider review at this point. This has been implemented. 1.c) Do you have concerns that the document needs more review from a particular (broader) perspective (e.g., security, operational complexity, someone familiar with AAA, etc.)? The quota concept is very simple and unlikely to need wider review. 1.d) Do you have any specific concerns/issues with this document that you believe the ADs and/or IESG should be aware of? For example, perhaps you are uncomfortable with certain parts of the document, or have concerns whether there really is a need for it. In any event, if your issues have been discussed in the WG and the WG has indicated it that it still wishes to advance the document, detail those concerns in the write-up. The WG is very small - See 1.e. Not clear if it should reference current webdav RFC or the bis version of it - See 1.h 1.e) How solid is the WG consensus behind this document? Does it represent the strong concurrence of a few individuals, with others being silent, or does the WG as a whole understand and agree with it? Two people commented during WGLC - the authors think it is OK. The WG probably has between 5 and 10 people that post on the list. The work looks reasonable, some people want it, it's effectively been done for a long time. It is unlikely to cause harm. I am recommending that we decide a handful of people looks like rough consensus in this case and we move this draft along to proposed standard. 1.f) Has anyone threatened an appeal or otherwise indicated extreme discontent? If so, please summarize the areas of conflict in separate email to the Responsible Area Director. Not that I (the chair) am aware of. 1.g) Have the chairs verified that the document adheres to all of the ID nits? (see http://www.ietf.org/ID-Checklist.html). Yes 1.h) Is the document split into normative and informative references? Yes Are there normative references to IDs, where the IDs are not also ready for advancement or are otherwise in an unclear state? No This documents extends the base WebDav protocol defined in RFC2518. The WG is currently close to finishing a 2518bis document. Some thought should go into if this document should reference 2518 or 2518bis. I do not believe and the mechanism described in this quota ID would change in any way if the reference to 2518 was change to 2518bis so I don't view this as too critical one way or the other. 1.i) For Standards Track and BCP documents, the IESG approval announcement includes a write-up section with the following sections: * Technical Summary WebDAV servers are frequently deployed with quota (size) limitations that limit the amount of information a particular user can store on the server. This document discusses the properties and minor behaviors needed for clients to interoperate with quota (size) implementations on WebDAV repositories. Specifically it defines a way to find the space used and space available on a given store by defining two new properties. It also defines an error to indicate that an operation is not possible because it would exceed a quota limitation and a separate error to differentiate this from when the quota was not exceed but there was not enough space to do the operation. * Working Group Summary The WebDav Working Group came to consensus on this document. * Protocol Quality Some vendors have implemented this protocol. From w3c-dist-auth-request@frink.w3.org Sun Jul 10 09:58:20 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DrcK4-0004Yq-3c for webdav-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 10 Jul 2005 09:58:20 -0400 Received: from frink.w3.org (frink.w3.org [128.30.52.16]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA02467 for ; Sun, 10 Jul 2005 09:58:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists by frink.w3.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1DrcIp-00063t-VM for w3c-dist-auth-dist@listhub.w3.org; Sun, 10 Jul 2005 13:57:03 +0000 Received: from lisa.w3.org ([128.30.52.41]) by frink.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DrcIp-00063L-Ai for w3c-dist-auth@listhub.w3.org; Sun, 10 Jul 2005 13:57:03 +0000 Received: from pop.gmx.net ([213.165.64.20] helo=mail.gmx.net) by lisa.w3.org with smtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DrcIk-00067m-6I for w3c-dist-auth@w3.org; Sun, 10 Jul 2005 13:57:03 +0000 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 10 Jul 2005 13:56:57 -0000 Received: from p508FB4C1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de (EHLO [192.168.178.21]) [80.143.180.193] by mail.gmx.net (mp002) with SMTP; 10 Jul 2005 15:56:57 +0200 X-Authenticated: #1915285 Message-ID: <42D12919.20704@gmx.de> Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 15:56:41 +0200 From: Julian Reschke User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (Windows/20050317) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Cullen Jennings CC: WebDav References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.0 X-W3C-Scan-Sig: lisa.w3.org 1DrcIk-00067m-6I 8c0162f511fb0be0809b30743f8ef634 X-Original-To: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Subject: Re: Quota - Chair WG Write-up X-Archived-At: http://www.w3.org/mid/42D12919.20704@gmx.de Resent-From: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9751 X-Loop: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Resent-Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Precedence: list List-Id: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: Resent-Message-Id: Resent-Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 13:57:03 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Cullen, I agree with the write-up and support the document submission. Best regards, Julian From w3c-dist-auth-request@frink.w3.org Sun Jul 10 19:06:11 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DrksD-0006JK-Fs for webdav-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 10 Jul 2005 19:06:11 -0400 Received: from frink.w3.org (frink.w3.org [128.30.52.16]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA00844 for ; Sun, 10 Jul 2005 19:06:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists by frink.w3.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1DrkqJ-0003nz-6t for w3c-dist-auth-dist@listhub.w3.org; Sun, 10 Jul 2005 23:04:11 +0000 Received: from bart.w3.org ([128.30.52.40]) by frink.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DrkqH-0003nK-T9 for w3c-dist-auth@listhub.w3.org; Sun, 10 Jul 2005 23:04:09 +0000 Received: from laweleka.osafoundation.org ([204.152.186.98] helo=smtp.osafoundation.org) by bart.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DrkqE-0006Iy-7n for w3c-dist-auth@w3.org; Sun, 10 Jul 2005 23:04:09 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E7D1F142299; Sun, 10 Jul 2005 16:04:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.osafoundation.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (laweleka.osafoundation.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 03793-01; Sun, 10 Jul 2005 16:04:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lisa.local (unknown [198.144.201.116]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 284DA142295; Sun, 10 Jul 2005 16:04:04 -0700 (PDT) To: "Julian Reschke" Cc: webdav References: <42CE66E3.5030101@gmx.de> <42CEB89F.2000206@gmx.de> <42CEC05B.8010808@gmx.de> <42CF7AB8.1040506@gmx.de> <42D0DAA8.3060907@gmx.de> <42D0E27F.2090104@gmx.de> Message-ID: Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 16:03:58 -0700 From: "Lisa Dusseault" Organization: OSAF Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=iso-8859-15 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <42D0E27F.2090104@gmx.de> User-Agent: Opera M2/8.01 (MacPPC, build 2092) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new and clamav at osafoundation.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 X-W3C-Scan-Sig: bart.w3.org 1DrkqE-0006Iy-7n 59dc237c2e985ca778fb6461794678ed X-Original-To: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Subject: Re: RFC2518bis, was: BIND and live property value consistency X-Archived-At: http://www.w3.org/mid/op.stpzoweheochem@lisa.local Resent-From: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9752 X-Loop: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Resent-Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Precedence: list List-Id: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: Resent-Message-Id: Resent-Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 23:04:11 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable At this point it would be good to be clear about what we're doing. I =20 propose we try for Draft Standard and follow the rules that implies. Do = =20 you think there's some reason we won't be able to do that? Lisa On Sun, 10 Jul 2005 01:55:27 -0700, Julian Reschke =20 wrote: > > Julian Reschke wrote: >> ... >> Finally, >> - we go through the issues list until all issues are closed (where =20 >> "closed" can also mean that the WG just states that it was unable to =20 >> come up with a resolution) >> Best regards, Julian > > One additional thought: > > If -- while doing this -- we find that we can't resolve everything or i= f =20 > we find features that we think need to be kept although no interop was = =20 > demonstrated, not going to "Draft" standard and republishing as =20 > "Proposed" should be considered a viable option (compared to giving up)= . > > In practice, few people really understand the different standards =20 > levels; and not updating the spec (with many known and resolved(!) =20 > issues) at all certainly is worse then doing the update, but not =20 > progressing on the standards ladder. > > Best regards, Julian > From w3c-dist-auth-request@frink.w3.org Sun Jul 10 19:07:07 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Drkt7-0006d4-KZ for webdav-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 10 Jul 2005 19:07:07 -0400 Received: from frink.w3.org (frink.w3.org [128.30.52.16]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA00900 for ; Sun, 10 Jul 2005 19:07:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists by frink.w3.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1DrksY-0004LG-H6 for w3c-dist-auth-dist@listhub.w3.org; Sun, 10 Jul 2005 23:06:30 +0000 Received: from bart.w3.org ([128.30.52.40]) by frink.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DrksX-0004KI-7B for w3c-dist-auth@listhub.w3.org; Sun, 10 Jul 2005 23:06:29 +0000 Received: from laweleka.osafoundation.org ([204.152.186.98] helo=smtp.osafoundation.org) by bart.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DrksT-0006Yt-K0 for w3c-dist-auth@w3c.org; Sun, 10 Jul 2005 23:06:29 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05217142299; Sun, 10 Jul 2005 16:06:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.osafoundation.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (laweleka.osafoundation.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 01481-10; Sun, 10 Jul 2005 16:06:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lisa.local (unknown [198.144.201.116]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29752142295; Sun, 10 Jul 2005 16:06:22 -0700 (PDT) To: "Julian Reschke" Cc: "Webdav WG" References: <42CF7A5A.5000908@gmx.de> <42CFFE03.6020300@gmx.de> <42D0E15B.8000807@gmx.de> Message-ID: Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 16:06:15 -0700 From: "Lisa Dusseault" Organization: OSAF Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=iso-8859-15 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <42D0E15B.8000807@gmx.de> User-Agent: Opera M2/8.01 (MacPPC, build 2092) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new and clamav at osafoundation.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 X-W3C-Scan-Sig: bart.w3.org 1DrksT-0006Yt-K0 cfbf8646b394e0a138c2fe41161c128d X-Original-To: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Subject: Re: Locking feature interop, was: Support for non-DAV collections X-Archived-At: http://www.w3.org/mid/op.stpzspvceochem@lisa.local Resent-From: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9753 X-Loop: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Resent-Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Precedence: list List-Id: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: Resent-Message-Id: Resent-Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 23:06:30 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, 10 Jul 2005 01:50:35 -0700, Julian Reschke =20 wrote: >>> The only type of locks defined in RFC2518 are write locks. Write =20 >>> locks can be shared or exclusive, and there are both servers =20 >>> implementing this and clients using it. Looking at =20 >>> , issue #96, the WG has = =20 >>> discussed this over three years ago and concluced that they are =20 >>> indeed implemented. >>> >> I also figured that shared locks were implemented already although I'm= =20 >> not sure they satisfy the 2x2 test requirement. But what about > > I fear I need to make a procedural comment again. The question of share= d =20 > lock interop *is* on the issues list, it *has* been dicussed three year= s =20 > ago, and it has been marked as resolved. Do you want to re-open that =20 > discussion? No -- shared locks, I agree, are OK, though I'd be even more comfortable = =20 if we'd heard of additional implementations in the intervening years. > >> non-write locks? Has anybody implemented locks that aren't write =20 >> locks and don't advertise themselves as such? > > > >> The way this impacts the document is that sections 6 and 7 could be =20 >> merged if there are effectively only write locks. Section 6 discusse= s =20 >> locks, section 7 discusses specifically write locks. > > RFC2518 has splitted the locking feature into some generic elements, an= d =20 > specific write-lock support for a very good reason. I don't see any =20 > compelling reason at all to change that. > Ok, I'll leave those sections separate. T Lisa From w3c-dist-auth-request@frink.w3.org Sun Jul 10 22:55:24 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DroS3-0002MW-L5 for webdav-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 10 Jul 2005 22:55:24 -0400 Received: from frink.w3.org (frink.w3.org [128.30.52.16]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA13516 for ; Sun, 10 Jul 2005 22:55:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists by frink.w3.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1DroQ5-0005Bj-Gg for w3c-dist-auth-dist@listhub.w3.org; Mon, 11 Jul 2005 02:53:21 +0000 Received: from lisa.w3.org ([128.30.52.41]) by frink.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DroQ3-0005B3-D4 for w3c-dist-auth@listhub.w3.org; Mon, 11 Jul 2005 02:53:19 +0000 Received: from relay1.es.uci.edu ([128.200.73.41]) by lisa.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DroQ0-0002cC-Rj for w3c-dist-auth@w3c.org; Mon, 11 Jul 2005 02:53:19 +0000 Received: from [128.195.105.234] (pv105234.reshsg.uci.edu [128.195.105.234]) (authenticated bits=0) by relay1.es.uci.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j6B2rE5U026317 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Sun, 10 Jul 2005 19:53:14 -0700 X-UCInetID: jfeise Message-ID: <42D1DF14.5040305@ics.uci.edu> Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 19:53:08 -0700 From: Joachim Feise Reply-To: jfeise@ics.uci.edu Organization: University of California, Irvine User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.7.6) Gecko/20050317 Thunderbird/1.0.2 Mnenhy/0.7.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, de MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Webdav WG References: <42CF7A5A.5000908@gmx.de> <42CFFE03.6020300@gmx.de> <42D0E15B.8000807@gmx.de> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 0.92.0.0 X-Message: MS Outlook is evil. X-Face: ".VkfaZ'q>9U9_]JOTykMM^88emlx:rG{m-5JHhsQ~\Cj43sZOq"rZTWsJG+%+R8#r_/o 6-TIJFfgXwgkDmCFG-v/3Gkt%k3%HwA#d&j6.R,7gb?UXNP0B;\npi/_a>x"(RyBjiOw*I.;8=.l {N[OuH;-p8LW0>]4$OW!z`-!Iy%2^?v9r.hn6$R+,dpC_zU+}91L{x_!4PK,P7\mv)`w{h(QTE)Z ?(p>OgR}}e!`'4jJ`b|$?lppz@wmLaLi[ Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAAHlBMVEUNEwyOlI2nraUABQD N08x9g3xRV1Ds8usABAAAAgBs7OnJAAACQ0lEQVR4nF2TMW/cMAyFBRgQkFFGlF2EjawCBBTJmIN ar/U10uxLYu4NXGgtkMXZOvb+bZ9k52KX8HDmd3yUyGdxXmJ+c0JUzt2t72fxAZDP4f4Ha15Ud3v wZlcg7CeYEb+RYoQU1f0OWCF5DCHyIHbgDfmglNJxEGsTkdPOCeRrMiqwqLbAirGvicjkkgtwzlk eFeUwgeX9BkhGQeMPRJrl1R6Qz0EmcvW+BcemgMMK5jkPDmCsV0CRn5cKAOv4E9zwsEo59yRkuAC dwZ+rs4DQ47PsN0Cg4r2AFwActksTmi/gXIB1slwj+YNSIVbz/L4AZ2XfqxpKRukdEFEdm3LzxoQ 43P+dM7Co0ErdnMiTYkgNsMQMcMLydN1i6lST0n0cZFHBljMwRAdSeCgO1uHWIjOp86EMqcYTZSl RnlKB+xWAYX3P/3XlHnYDzAY4F/I6TNOWuf+wdgWVGwvwGWh+ttXSw1WVzIB822RQXQBGosu1QwZ DPs3afGx6HNSYQM0hAMCoVRn75AMsFeoQ6gwEjIoaJ6+T1zXmSjooEwZ4exBSfMFWU2ph3KBCBqe mBWBx7BJ29zUcMS1CXXzxU8xS3qfUpZ/jkbJ54epb71uGlJ9SmtIrhzx1WHdMnX/QkUUHgIhjbRQ h8YgXmIJFzoJ9g62Visy3eM/b/wC/8CFgrczdAnwBiFfmHp35tAfwWuSADuMxFTBdKlLLWShcF+k teIAO+nSlotuAV3QYVVEC+GyeklK9Uo/l57QDMLRalEr7f0PUUat8ZcMkAAAAAElFTkSuQmCC Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 X-W3C-Scan-Sig: lisa.w3.org 1DroQ0-0002cC-Rj c40044fbcf3861b81d727bf7d6d30bfa X-Original-To: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Subject: Re: Locking feature interop, was: Support for non-DAV collections X-Archived-At: http://www.w3.org/mid/42D1DF14.5040305@ics.uci.edu Resent-From: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9754 X-Loop: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Resent-Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Precedence: list List-Id: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: Resent-Message-Id: Resent-Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 02:53:21 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lisa Dusseault wrote on 07/10/05 16:06: > > No -- shared locks, I agree, are OK, though I'd be even more comfortable > if we'd heard of additional implementations in the intervening years. The DAV Explorer client supports both exclusive and shared locks... -Joe From w3c-dist-auth-request@frink.w3.org Mon Jul 11 00:55:46 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DrqJF-0007nx-A2 for webdav-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 11 Jul 2005 00:55:46 -0400 Received: from frink.w3.org (frink.w3.org [128.30.52.16]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA19205 for ; Mon, 11 Jul 2005 00:54:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists by frink.w3.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1DrqHl-0003yQ-Qq for w3c-dist-auth-dist@listhub.w3.org; Mon, 11 Jul 2005 04:52:53 +0000 Received: from bart.w3.org ([128.30.52.40]) by frink.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DrqHj-0003xq-UN for w3c-dist-auth@listhub.w3.org; Mon, 11 Jul 2005 04:52:51 +0000 Received: from mx.newgen.co.in ([202.131.146.227] helo=newgen.co.in) by bart.w3.org with smtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DrqHg-0003Ff-42 for w3c-dist-auth@w3c.org; Mon, 11 Jul 2005 04:52:51 +0000 Received: (qmail 1962 invoked by uid 504); 11 Jul 2005 05:00:33 -0000 Received: from yogvinder@newgen.co.in by mx.newgen.co.in by uid 501 with qmail-scanner-1.21 (fireav: ???. Clear:RC:0(202.140.41.205):. Processed in 2.299386 secs); 11 Jul 2005 05:00:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ngmail.newgen.co.in) (okhlaoffice@202.140.41.205) by mx.newgen.co.in.146.131.202.in-addr.arpa with SMTP; 11 Jul 2005 05:00:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 771 invoked by uid 504); 11 Jul 2005 04:58:48 -0000 Received: from yogvinder@newgen.co.in by ngmail.newgen.co.in by uid 501 with qmail-scanner-1.21 (fireav: ???. Clear:RC:1(192.168.5.86):. Processed in 2.379521 secs); 11 Jul 2005 04:58:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ng3054) (192.168.5.86) by 192.168.5.243 with SMTP; 11 Jul 2005 04:58:46 -0000 Message-ID: <002601c585d3$c25a2b10$5605a8c0@ng3054> From: "yogio" To: "Webdav WG" Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 10:18:19 +0530 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0023_01C58601.DBFE90F0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Status: No, score=0.2 X-W3C-Scan-Sig: bart.w3.org 1DrqHg-0003Ff-42 747920d87a659ea8dfc35b0f440b224c X-Original-To: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Subject: Webdav Starter Question.......... X-Archived-At: http://www.w3.org/mid/002601c585d3$c25a2b10$5605a8c0@ng3054 Resent-From: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9755 X-Loop: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Resent-Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Precedence: list List-Id: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: Resent-Message-Id: Resent-Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 04:52:53 +0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C58601.DBFE90F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Can anyone please tell e how webdav client requests are mapped to webdav = server.... regards, Yogi ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C58601.DBFE90F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,
Can anyone please tell e how webdav = client requests=20 are mapped to webdav server....
 
regards,
Yogi
 
 
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Newgen Software Technologies Ltd and / or its subsidiary Companies accept no responsibility for loss or damage arising from the use of the information transmitted by this email including damage from virus and further acknowledges that any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and no binding nature of the message shall be implied or assumed unless the sender does so expressly with due authority of Newgen Software Technologies Ltd and / or its subsidiary Companies, as applicable. ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C58601.DBFE90F0-- From w3c-dist-auth-request@frink.w3.org Mon Jul 11 02:04:14 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DrrOl-0003BR-Un for webdav-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 11 Jul 2005 02:04:14 -0400 Received: from frink.w3.org (frink.w3.org [128.30.52.16]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA25928 for ; Mon, 11 Jul 2005 02:04:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists by frink.w3.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1DrrNV-0007C6-Td for w3c-dist-auth-dist@listhub.w3.org; Mon, 11 Jul 2005 06:02:54 +0000 Received: from bart.w3.org ([128.30.52.40]) by frink.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DrrNU-0007BW-RY for w3c-dist-auth@listhub.w3.org; Mon, 11 Jul 2005 06:02:52 +0000 Received: from mail.gmx.de ([213.165.64.20] helo=mail.gmx.net) by bart.w3.org with smtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DrrNR-0005me-Lx for w3c-dist-auth@w3.org; Mon, 11 Jul 2005 06:02:52 +0000 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 11 Jul 2005 06:02:45 -0000 Received: from p508FA897.dip0.t-ipconnect.de (EHLO [192.168.178.21]) [80.143.168.151] by mail.gmx.net (mp014) with SMTP; 11 Jul 2005 08:02:45 +0200 X-Authenticated: #1915285 Message-ID: <42D20B82.8070003@gmx.de> Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 08:02:42 +0200 From: Julian Reschke User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (Windows/20050317) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Lisa Dusseault CC: webdav References: <42CE66E3.5030101@gmx.de> <42CEB89F.2000206@gmx.de> <42CEC05B.8010808@gmx.de> <42CF7AB8.1040506@gmx.de> <42D0DAA8.3060907@gmx.de> <42D0E27F.2090104@gmx.de> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 X-W3C-Scan-Sig: bart.w3.org 1DrrNR-0005me-Lx 02ac3d974724e45c10f481d087562768 X-Original-To: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Subject: Re: RFC2518bis, was: BIND and live property value consistency X-Archived-At: http://www.w3.org/mid/42D20B82.8070003@gmx.de Resent-From: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9756 X-Loop: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Resent-Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Precedence: list List-Id: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: Resent-Message-Id: Resent-Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 06:02:53 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lisa Dusseault wrote: > > At this point it would be good to be clear about what we're doing. I > propose we try for Draft Standard and follow the rules that implies. > Do you think there's some reason we won't be able to do that? Yes. There are some things in the draft that are new; so if we want to keep them, we better make sure they are implemented somewhere very soon (I'm thinking of PROPFIND/dead-props, the DAV:lockroot element or the Force-Authenticate header). Best regards, Julian From w3c-dist-auth-request@frink.w3.org Mon Jul 11 02:06:16 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DrrQi-0003fg-Fc for webdav-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 11 Jul 2005 02:06:15 -0400 Received: from frink.w3.org (frink.w3.org [128.30.52.16]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA28022 for ; Mon, 11 Jul 2005 02:06:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists by frink.w3.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1DrrQA-0007yw-Il for w3c-dist-auth-dist@listhub.w3.org; Mon, 11 Jul 2005 06:05:38 +0000 Received: from lisa.w3.org ([128.30.52.41]) by frink.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DrrQ8-0007yM-EG for w3c-dist-auth@listhub.w3.org; Mon, 11 Jul 2005 06:05:36 +0000 Received: from imap.gmx.net ([213.165.64.20] helo=mail.gmx.net) by lisa.w3.org with smtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DrrQ6-0006Sg-1G for w3c-dist-auth@w3c.org; Mon, 11 Jul 2005 06:05:36 +0000 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 11 Jul 2005 06:05:30 -0000 Received: from p508FA897.dip0.t-ipconnect.de (EHLO [192.168.178.21]) [80.143.168.151] by mail.gmx.net (mp028) with SMTP; 11 Jul 2005 08:05:30 +0200 X-Authenticated: #1915285 Message-ID: <42D20C24.1000005@gmx.de> Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 08:05:24 +0200 From: Julian Reschke User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (Windows/20050317) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: yogio CC: Webdav WG References: <002601c585d3$c25a2b10$5605a8c0@ng3054> In-Reply-To: <002601c585d3$c25a2b10$5605a8c0@ng3054> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.1 X-W3C-Scan-Sig: lisa.w3.org 1DrrQ6-0006Sg-1G 5acb7f86f4dcb6b27457ddd5e6a6bbaa X-Original-To: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Subject: Re: Webdav Starter Question.......... X-Archived-At: http://www.w3.org/mid/42D20C24.1000005@gmx.de Resent-From: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9757 X-Loop: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Resent-Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Precedence: list List-Id: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: Resent-Message-Id: Resent-Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 06:05:38 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit yogio wrote: > Hi, > Can anyone please tell e how webdav client requests are mapped to webdav > server.... I fear you'll need to ask a lot more specific question to get a useful answer. One way to find out how a server works may be to study source code (Apache/moddav, Apache Slide...). Best regards, Julian From w3c-dist-auth-request@frink.w3.org Mon Jul 11 02:53:17 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DrsAH-00047D-22 for webdav-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 11 Jul 2005 02:53:17 -0400 Received: from frink.w3.org (frink.w3.org [128.30.52.16]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA16439 for ; Mon, 11 Jul 2005 02:53:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists by frink.w3.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1Drs9T-0001xr-0b for w3c-dist-auth-dist@listhub.w3.org; Mon, 11 Jul 2005 06:52:27 +0000 Received: from bart.w3.org ([128.30.52.40]) by frink.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Drs9Q-0001wM-4S for w3c-dist-auth@listhub.w3.org; Mon, 11 Jul 2005 06:52:24 +0000 Received: from mx.newgen.co.in ([202.131.146.227] helo=newgen.co.in) by bart.w3.org with smtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Drs9K-0005zW-6y for w3c-dist-auth@w3c.org; Mon, 11 Jul 2005 06:52:23 +0000 Received: (qmail 17511 invoked by uid 504); 11 Jul 2005 06:59:47 -0000 Received: from yogvinder@newgen.co.in by mx.newgen.co.in by uid 501 with qmail-scanner-1.21 (fireav: ???. Clear:RC:0(202.140.41.205):. Processed in 2.418596 secs); 11 Jul 2005 06:59:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ngmail.newgen.co.in) (okhlaoffice@202.140.41.205) by mx.newgen.co.in.146.131.202.in-addr.arpa with SMTP; 11 Jul 2005 06:59:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 13018 invoked by uid 504); 11 Jul 2005 06:57:09 -0000 Received: from yogvinder@newgen.co.in by ngmail.newgen.co.in by uid 501 with qmail-scanner-1.21 (fireav: ???. Clear:RC:1(192.168.5.86):. Processed in 2.307117 secs); 11 Jul 2005 06:57:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ng3054) (192.168.5.86) by 192.168.5.243 with SMTP; 11 Jul 2005 06:57:07 -0000 Message-ID: <007f01c585e4$4a777e70$5605a8c0@ng3054> From: "yogio" To: "Julian Reschke" , "Webdav WG" References: <002601c585d3$c25a2b10$5605a8c0@ng3054> <42D20C24.1000005@gmx.de> Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 12:16:39 +0530 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Status: No, score=0.1 X-W3C-Scan-Sig: bart.w3.org 1Drs9K-0005zW-6y 1fcb2cc5f3103cc5b8fc75cabe1f7e29 X-Original-To: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Subject: Re: Webdav Starter Question.......... X-Archived-At: http://www.w3.org/mid/007f01c585e4$4a777e70$5605a8c0@ng3054 Resent-From: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9758 X-Loop: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Resent-Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Precedence: list List-Id: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: Resent-Message-Id: Resent-Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 06:52:27 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit thanks for the reply.... instead can you tell me where from i can start reading about webdav and its integration with an application. i need to use webdav with my application to upload download files(any type). regards, yogi ----- Original Message ----- From: "Julian Reschke" To: "yogio" Cc: "Webdav WG" Sent: Monday, July 11, 2005 11:35 AM Subject: Re: Webdav Starter Question.......... > yogio wrote: > > Hi, > > Can anyone please tell e how webdav client requests are mapped to webdav > > server.... > > I fear you'll need to ask a lot more specific question to get a useful > answer. > > One way to find out how a server works may be to study source code > (Apache/moddav, Apache Slide...). > > Best regards, Julian > Disclaimer :- This e-mail message including any attachment may contain confidential, proprietary or legally privileged information. It should not be used by who is not the original intended recipient. If you have erroneously received this message, you are notified that you are strictly prohibited from using, coping, altering or disclosing the content of this message. Please delete it immediately and notify the sender. Newgen Software Technologies Ltd and / or its subsidiary Companies accept no responsibility for loss or damage arising from the use of the information transmitted by this email including damage from virus and further acknowledges that any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and no binding nature of the message shall be implied or assumed unless the sender does so expressly with due authority of Newgen Software Technologies Ltd and / or its subsidiary Companies, as applicable. From w3c-dist-auth-request@frink.w3.org Mon Jul 11 03:04:57 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DrsLZ-0006l0-1M for webdav-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 11 Jul 2005 03:04:57 -0400 Received: from frink.w3.org (frink.w3.org [128.30.52.16]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA17207 for ; Mon, 11 Jul 2005 03:04:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists by frink.w3.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1DrsKU-0005ft-M6 for w3c-dist-auth-dist@listhub.w3.org; Mon, 11 Jul 2005 07:03:50 +0000 Received: from bart.w3.org ([128.30.52.40]) by frink.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DrsKT-0005et-7O for w3c-dist-auth@listhub.w3.org; Mon, 11 Jul 2005 07:03:49 +0000 Received: from mail.gmx.de ([213.165.64.20] helo=mail.gmx.net) by bart.w3.org with smtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DrsKO-0008Ae-PM for w3c-dist-auth@w3c.org; Mon, 11 Jul 2005 07:03:48 +0000 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 11 Jul 2005 07:03:43 -0000 Received: from p508FA897.dip0.t-ipconnect.de (EHLO [192.168.178.21]) [80.143.168.151] by mail.gmx.net (mp019) with SMTP; 11 Jul 2005 09:03:43 +0200 X-Authenticated: #1915285 Message-ID: <42D219C9.7070406@gmx.de> Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 09:03:37 +0200 From: Julian Reschke User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (Windows/20050317) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: yogio CC: Webdav WG References: <002601c585d3$c25a2b10$5605a8c0@ng3054> <42D20C24.1000005@gmx.de> <007f01c585e4$4a777e70$5605a8c0@ng3054> In-Reply-To: <007f01c585e4$4a777e70$5605a8c0@ng3054> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.0 X-W3C-Scan-Sig: bart.w3.org 1DrsKO-0008Ae-PM 57a0d54bfd66e4a40e5280947d51bd61 X-Original-To: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Subject: Re: Webdav Starter Question.......... X-Archived-At: http://www.w3.org/mid/42D219C9.7070406@gmx.de Resent-From: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9759 X-Loop: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Resent-Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Precedence: list List-Id: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: Resent-Message-Id: Resent-Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 07:03:50 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit yogio wrote: > thanks for the reply.... > instead can you tell me where from i can start reading about webdav and its > integration with an application. i need to use webdav with my application to > upload download files(any type). > regards, > yogi Well, you'll probably need to understand parts of RFC2616 (HTTP and RFC2518 (WebDAV). To use that in your application, you'll need at least an HTTP library, optimally with some specific WebDAV support. Which one depends on what platform you're on (check out the XmlHttpRequest object in MSXML for Microsoft platforms, the neon C-library for open source, and possibly the Apache Slide client libraries for Java). Best regards, Julian From w3c-dist-auth-request@frink.w3.org Mon Jul 11 09:19:48 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DryCH-0007Sa-Rr for webdav-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 11 Jul 2005 09:19:48 -0400 Received: from frink.w3.org (frink.w3.org [128.30.52.16]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA09126 for ; Mon, 11 Jul 2005 09:19:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists by frink.w3.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1DryAY-0002yC-1W for w3c-dist-auth-dist@listhub.w3.org; Mon, 11 Jul 2005 13:17:58 +0000 Received: from bart.w3.org ([128.30.52.40]) by frink.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DryAW-0002wv-AX for w3c-dist-auth@listhub.w3.org; Mon, 11 Jul 2005 13:17:56 +0000 Received: from pop.gmx.net ([213.165.64.20] helo=mail.gmx.net) by bart.w3.org with smtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DryAS-0001ML-Kp for w3c-dist-auth@w3.org; Mon, 11 Jul 2005 13:17:56 +0000 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 11 Jul 2005 12:51:11 -0000 Received: from p508FA897.dip0.t-ipconnect.de (EHLO [192.168.178.21]) [80.143.168.151] by mail.gmx.net (mp023) with SMTP; 11 Jul 2005 14:51:11 +0200 X-Authenticated: #1915285 Message-ID: <42D26B2C.1040708@gmx.de> Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 14:50:52 +0200 From: Julian Reschke User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (Windows/20050317) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Julian Reschke CC: Geoffrey M Clemm , webdav References: <42CEB466.1020208@gmx.de> In-Reply-To: <42CEB466.1020208@gmx.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 X-W3C-Scan-Sig: bart.w3.org 1DryAS-0001ML-Kp 0ac79b9635ea84be1317fd910166d0cd X-Original-To: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Subject: Re: BIND and live property value consistency X-Archived-At: http://www.w3.org/mid/42D26B2C.1040708@gmx.de Resent-From: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9760 X-Loop: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Resent-Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Precedence: list List-Id: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: Resent-Message-Id: Resent-Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 13:17:58 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Julian Reschke wrote: > > Geoffrey M Clemm wrote: > >> >> The proposed additional text is fine with me, although I'd probably >> delete the phrase "which in turn should define how the property value >> behaves", since I believe it is redundant. >> >> Cheers, >> Geoff > > > Good point. New proposed text > (): > > > "2.6. PROPFIND and Bindings > > Consistent with [RFC2518], the value of a dead property MUST be > independent of the number of bindings to its host resource or of the > path submitted to PROPFIND. On the other hand, the behaviour for each > live property depends on its individual definition (for example, see > [RFC3744], section 5, paragraph 2)." > > Best regards, Julian There's a deadline for Internet Draft submissions next Monday. To make sure that all WGLC'd drafts have up-to-date versions published before the IETF meeting in Paris, I'll submit this version before the end of this week. (so if somebody disagrees with this change, please speak up soon!). Best regards, Julian From w3c-dist-auth-request@frink.w3.org Mon Jul 11 14:30:45 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Ds33F-0000wz-AN for webdav-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 11 Jul 2005 14:30:45 -0400 Received: from frink.w3.org (frink.w3.org [128.30.52.16]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA07443 for ; Mon, 11 Jul 2005 14:30:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists by frink.w3.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1Ds30v-0001XA-QT for w3c-dist-auth-dist@listhub.w3.org; Mon, 11 Jul 2005 18:28:21 +0000 Received: from bart.w3.org ([128.30.52.40]) by frink.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Ds30u-0001W9-2M for w3c-dist-auth@listhub.w3.org; Mon, 11 Jul 2005 18:28:20 +0000 Received: from laweleka.osafoundation.org ([204.152.186.98] helo=smtp.osafoundation.org) by bart.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Ds30p-00017b-4t for w3c-dist-auth@w3.org; Mon, 11 Jul 2005 18:28:19 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41A81142295; Mon, 11 Jul 2005 11:28:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.osafoundation.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (laweleka.osafoundation.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 15504-07; Mon, 11 Jul 2005 11:28:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lisa.local (w002.z065106067.sjc-ca.dsl.cnc.net [65.106.67.2]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8DE7142280; Mon, 11 Jul 2005 11:28:13 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 11:28:08 -0700 From: "Lisa Dusseault" To: "Julian Reschke" Cc: webdav References: <42CE66E3.5030101@gmx.de> <42CEB89F.2000206@gmx.de> <42CEC05B.8010808@gmx.de> <42CF7AB8.1040506@gmx.de> <42D0DAA8.3060907@gmx.de> <42D0E27F.2090104@gmx.de> <42D20B82.8070003@gmx.de> Message-ID: Organization: OSAF Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=iso-8859-15 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <42D20B82.8070003@gmx.de> User-Agent: Opera M2/8.01 (MacPPC, build 2092) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new and clamav at osafoundation.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 X-W3C-Scan-Sig: bart.w3.org 1Ds30p-00017b-4t d86043e681eb253a9171152cc9185c01 X-Original-To: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Subject: Re: RFC2518bis, was: BIND and live property value consistency X-Archived-At: http://www.w3.org/mid/op.stq95zuzeochem@lisa.local Resent-From: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9761 X-Loop: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Resent-Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Precedence: list List-Id: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: Resent-Message-Id: Resent-Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 18:28:21 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Agreed. I don't know for sure of any implementations myself. Anybody? Lisa On Sun, 10 Jul 2005 23:02:42 -0700, Julian Reschke =20 wrote: > Lisa Dusseault wrote: >> At this point it would be good to be clear about what we're doing. I= =20 >> propose we try for Draft Standard and follow the rules that implies. = =20 >> Do you think there's some reason we won't be able to do that? > > Yes. There are some things in the draft that are new; so if we want to = =20 > keep them, we better make sure they are implemented somewhere very soon= =20 > (I'm thinking of PROPFIND/dead-props, the DAV:lockroot element or the =20 > Force-Authenticate header). > > Best regards, Julian --=20 Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ From w3c-dist-auth-request@frink.w3.org Mon Jul 11 17:46:36 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Ds66m-0004vg-DT for webdav-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 11 Jul 2005 17:46:36 -0400 Received: from frink.w3.org (frink.w3.org [128.30.52.16]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA19550 for ; Mon, 11 Jul 2005 17:46:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists by frink.w3.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1Ds65N-0004RM-5O for w3c-dist-auth-dist@listhub.w3.org; Mon, 11 Jul 2005 21:45:09 +0000 Received: from lisa.w3.org ([128.30.52.41]) by frink.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Ds65K-0004Kl-MB for w3c-dist-auth@listhub.w3.org; Mon, 11 Jul 2005 21:45:06 +0000 Received: from [132.151.6.50] (helo=newodin.ietf.org) by lisa.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Ds65F-0005ly-7f for w3c-dist-auth@w3.org; Mon, 11 Jul 2005 21:45:06 +0000 Received: from apache by newodin.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1Ds65E-0004Ti-Rl; Mon, 11 Jul 2005 17:45:00 -0400 X-test-idtracker: no To: IETF-Announce From: The IESG Reply-to: iesg@ietf.org CC: Message-Id: Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 17:45:00 -0400 X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.0 X-W3C-Scan-Sig: lisa.w3.org 1Ds65F-0005ly-7f 9bcbbf400f81aa941810d366af139530 X-Original-To: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Subject: Last Call: 'Quota and Size Properties for DAV Collections' to Proposed Standard X-Archived-At: http://www.w3.org/mid/E1Ds65E-0004Ti-Rl@newodin.ietf.org Resent-From: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9762 X-Loop: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Resent-Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Precedence: list List-Id: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: Resent-Message-Id: Resent-Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 21:45:09 +0000 The IESG has received a request from the WWW Distributed Authoring and Versioning WG to consider the following document: - 'Quota and Size Properties for DAV Collections ' as a Proposed Standard The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits final comments on this action. Please send any comments to the iesg@ietf.org or ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2005-07-25. The file can be obtained via http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-webdav-quota-07.txt From w3c-dist-auth-request@frink.w3.org Tue Jul 12 18:04:24 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DsSrY-0008W1-AV for webdav-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 12 Jul 2005 18:04:24 -0400 Received: from frink.w3.org (frink.w3.org [128.30.52.16]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA22807 for ; Tue, 12 Jul 2005 18:04:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists by frink.w3.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1DsSp4-00022R-1F for w3c-dist-auth-dist@listhub.w3.org; Tue, 12 Jul 2005 22:01:50 +0000 Received: from lisa.w3.org ([128.30.52.41]) by frink.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DsSp2-00021t-RZ for w3c-dist-auth@listhub.w3.org; Tue, 12 Jul 2005 22:01:48 +0000 Received: from pop.gmx.de ([213.165.64.20] helo=mail.gmx.net) by lisa.w3.org with smtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DsSp0-0003v3-BE for w3c-dist-auth@w3.org; Tue, 12 Jul 2005 22:01:48 +0000 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 12 Jul 2005 22:01:40 -0000 Received: from hdlb-d9b944f2.pool.mediaWays.net (EHLO [217.185.68.242]) [217.185.68.242] by mail.gmx.net (mp013) with SMTP; 13 Jul 2005 00:01:40 +0200 X-Authenticated: #1915285 Message-ID: <42D39F6D.5060102@gmx.de> Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 12:46:05 +0200 From: Julian Reschke User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (Windows/20050317) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Lisa Dusseault CC: webdav References: <42CE66E3.5030101@gmx.de> <42CEB89F.2000206@gmx.de> <42CEC05B.8010808@gmx.de> <42CF7AB8.1040506@gmx.de> <42D0DAA8.3060907@gmx.de> <42D0E27F.2090104@gmx.de> <42D20B82.8070003@gmx.de> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.4 X-W3C-Scan-Sig: lisa.w3.org 1DsSp0-0003v3-BE 219f0358fa1b996eab49bafce12fffa4 X-Original-To: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Subject: Re: RFC2518bis, was: BIND and live property value consistency X-Archived-At: http://www.w3.org/mid/42D39F6D.5060102@gmx.de Resent-From: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9763 X-Loop: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Resent-Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Precedence: list List-Id: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: Resent-Message-Id: Resent-Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 22:01:50 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lisa Dusseault wrote: > > Agreed. I don't know for sure of any implementations myself. Anybody? PROPFIND/dead-props and DAV:lockroot are implemented in our server and client. So if one other client/server implementation had this (Xythos comes to mind), we could leave it in. Best regards, Julian From w3c-dist-auth-request@frink.w3.org Wed Jul 13 20:51:50 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Dsrx8-0004DL-Ey for webdav-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 13 Jul 2005 20:51:50 -0400 Received: from frink.w3.org (frink.w3.org [128.30.52.16]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA28276 for ; Wed, 13 Jul 2005 20:51:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists by frink.w3.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1Dsrub-0000yl-Vj for w3c-dist-auth-dist@listhub.w3.org; Thu, 14 Jul 2005 00:49:13 +0000 Received: from maggie.w3.org ([193.51.208.68]) by frink.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DsruZ-0000y8-6X for w3c-dist-auth@listhub.w3.org; Thu, 14 Jul 2005 00:49:11 +0000 Received: from mail-out4.apple.com ([17.254.13.23]) by maggie.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DsruX-0004o3-2r for w3c-dist-auth@w3.org; Thu, 14 Jul 2005 00:49:13 +0000 Received: from mailgate1.apple.com (a17-128-100-225.apple.com [17.128.100.225]) by mail-out4.apple.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j6E0n5Rt005202 for ; Wed, 13 Jul 2005 17:49:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay1.apple.com (relay1.apple.com) by mailgate1.apple.com (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.3.17) with ESMTP id for ; Wed, 13 Jul 2005 17:49:05 -0700 Received: from [17.226.20.190] (baumjo.apple.com [17.226.20.190]) by relay1.apple.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j6E0n3cP028863 for ; Wed, 13 Jul 2005 17:49:04 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v730) In-Reply-To: References: <42CE66E3.5030101@gmx.de> <42CEB89F.2000206@gmx.de> <42CEC05B.8010808@gmx.de> <42CF7AB8.1040506@gmx.de> <42D0DAA8.3060907@gmx.de> <42D0E27F.2090104@gmx.de> <42D20B82.8070003@gmx.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: John Baumgarten Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 17:49:03 -0700 To: webdav X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.730) X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.1 X-W3C-Scan-Sig: maggie.w3.org 1DsruX-0004o3-2r ddd390d78b6e35ce0c3aaa2729dc4f7f X-Original-To: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Subject: Re: RFC2518bis, was: BIND and live property value consistency X-Archived-At: http://www.w3.org/mid/EB1313FF-2F8A-40CF-A36B-446FA1A0E833@apple.com Resent-From: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9764 X-Loop: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Resent-Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Precedence: list List-Id: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: Resent-Message-Id: Resent-Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 00:49:13 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit .Mac iDisk implements dead-props, but not lockroot. We don't implement Force-Authentication, but would if standardized. -Jake On Jul 11, 2005, at 11:28 AM, Lisa Dusseault wrote: > > Agreed. I don't know for sure of any implementations myself. > Anybody? > > Lisa > > On Sun, 10 Jul 2005 23:02:42 -0700, Julian Reschke > wrote: > > >> Lisa Dusseault wrote: >> >>> At this point it would be good to be clear about what we're >>> doing. I propose we try for Draft Standard and follow the rules >>> that implies. Do you think there's some reason we won't be able >>> to do that? >>> >> >> Yes. There are some things in the draft that are new; so if we >> want to keep them, we better make sure they are implemented >> somewhere very soon (I'm thinking of PROPFIND/dead-props, the >> DAV:lockroot element or the Force-Authenticate header). >> >> Best regards, Julian >> > > > > -- > Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ > > From w3c-dist-auth-request@frink.w3.org Thu Jul 14 15:52:29 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Dt9kz-00007g-MJ for webdav-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 14 Jul 2005 15:52:29 -0400 Received: from frink.w3.org (frink.w3.org [128.30.52.16]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA14072 for ; Thu, 14 Jul 2005 15:52:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists by frink.w3.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1Dt9im-0006Q8-Me for w3c-dist-auth-dist@listhub.w3.org; Thu, 14 Jul 2005 19:50:12 +0000 Received: from bart.w3.org ([128.30.52.40]) by frink.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Dt9ik-0006Ol-AU for w3c-dist-auth@listhub.w3.org; Thu, 14 Jul 2005 19:50:10 +0000 Received: from [132.151.6.50] (helo=newodin.ietf.org) by bart.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Dt9ie-0005LD-UB for w3c-dist-auth@w3.org; Thu, 14 Jul 2005 19:50:10 +0000 Received: from mlee by newodin.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1Dt9ie-0006I8-Jp; Thu, 14 Jul 2005 15:50:04 -0400 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Cc: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Message-Id: Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 15:50:04 -0400 X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.4 X-W3C-Scan-Sig: bart.w3.org 1Dt9ie-0005LD-UB 2362fd779fddaa54de4906e5d4a77436 X-Original-To: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-webdav-bind-12.txt X-Archived-At: http://www.w3.org/mid/E1Dt9ie-0006I8-Jp@newodin.ietf.org Resent-From: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9765 X-Loop: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Resent-Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Precedence: list List-Id: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: Resent-Message-Id: Resent-Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 19:50:12 +0000 --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the WWW Distributed Authoring and Versioning Working Group of the IETF. Title : Binding Extensions to Web Distributeda Authoring and Versioning (WebDAV) Author(s) : G. Clemm, et al. Filename : draft-ietf-webdav-bind-12.txt Pages : 41 Date : 2005-7-14 This specification defines bindings, and the BIND method for creating multiple bindings to the same resource. Creating a new binding to a resource causes at least one new URI to be mapped to that resource. Servers are required to insure the integrity of any bindings that they allow to be created. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-webdav-bind-12.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. 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Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2005-7-14152420.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-webdav-bind-12.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-webdav-bind-12.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2005-7-14152420.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- From w3c-dist-auth-request@frink.w3.org Mon Jul 18 15:55:26 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Dubi2-0000tR-0W for webdav-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 18 Jul 2005 15:55:26 -0400 Received: from frink.w3.org (frink.w3.org [128.30.52.16]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA11152 for ; Mon, 18 Jul 2005 15:55:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists by frink.w3.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1Dubfx-00028U-Nr for w3c-dist-auth-dist@listhub.w3.org; Mon, 18 Jul 2005 19:53:17 +0000 Received: from maggie.w3.org ([193.51.208.68]) by frink.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Dubfw-00027L-95 for w3c-dist-auth@listhub.w3.org; Mon, 18 Jul 2005 19:53:16 +0000 Received: from [132.151.6.50] (helo=newodin.ietf.org) by maggie.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Dubft-0003XV-U5 for w3c-dist-auth@w3.org; Mon, 18 Jul 2005 19:53:16 +0000 Received: from mlee by newodin.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1Dubcn-0002GJ-MR; Mon, 18 Jul 2005 15:50:01 -0400 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Cc: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Message-Id: Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 15:50:01 -0400 X-Original-To: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-webdav-rfc2518bis-07.txt X-Archived-At: http://www.w3.org/mid/E1Dubcn-0002GJ-MR@newodin.ietf.org Resent-From: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9766 X-Loop: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Resent-Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Precedence: list List-Id: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: Resent-Message-Id: Resent-Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 19:53:17 +0000 --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the WWW Distributed Authoring and Versioning Working Group of the IETF. Title : HTTP Extensions for Distributed Authoring - WebDAV RFC2518 bis Author(s) : L. Dusseault, J. Crawford Filename : draft-ietf-webdav-rfc2518bis-07.txt Pages : 121 Date : 2005-7-18 WebDAV consists of a set of methods, headers, and content-types ancillary to HTTP/1.1 for the management of resource properties, creation and management of resource collections, namespace manipulation, and resource locking (collision avoidance). RFC2518 was published in February 1998, and this draft makes minor revisions mostly due to interoperability experience. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-webdav-rfc2518bis-07.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-webdav-rfc2518bis-07.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-webdav-rfc2518bis-07.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2005-7-18144842.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-webdav-rfc2518bis-07.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-webdav-rfc2518bis-07.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2005-7-18144842.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- From w3c-dist-auth-request@frink.w3.org Tue Jul 19 03:22:02 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DumQT-0004i0-T6 for webdav-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 19 Jul 2005 03:22:02 -0400 Received: from frink.w3.org (frink.w3.org [128.30.52.16]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA16030 for ; Tue, 19 Jul 2005 03:22:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists by frink.w3.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1DumOj-0002tA-PM for w3c-dist-auth-dist@listhub.w3.org; Tue, 19 Jul 2005 07:20:13 +0000 Received: from lisa.w3.org ([128.30.52.41]) by frink.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DumEq-0007GC-8J for w3c-dist-auth@listhub.w3.org; Tue, 19 Jul 2005 07:10:00 +0000 Received: from zproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.162.199]) by lisa.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Dum3M-0005ka-AT for w3c-dist-auth@w3.org; Tue, 19 Jul 2005 06:58:11 +0000 Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id i11so1086759nzi for ; Mon, 18 Jul 2005 23:58:08 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=DmmPZ8wXleIihZaNYIOzTSCYenf9AStKTq3QUDcsS8a8+A0sFuuN2RReH+Y4U471mtzFjUZCSehuP9LIDyRVr70diR1uhJI2C4qAVntdUt8tPLywILjmKslnWOO5tZ4eDFAv9G112zEPuA+tJ2zudetK1KwtNe+6kIQIO+xWxLs= Received: by 10.36.84.5 with SMTP id h5mr316075nzb; Mon, 18 Jul 2005 23:57:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.36.115.12 with HTTP; Mon, 18 Jul 2005 23:57:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <31f07fc305071823571981b4a3@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 14:57:37 +0800 From: ChunWei Ho Reply-To: ChunWei Ho To: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 X-W3C-Scan-Sig: lisa.w3.org 1Dum3M-0005ka-AT 697f43b650a0f16726b283fcc4c31a5e X-Original-To: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Subject: Some questions about WebDAV X-Archived-At: http://www.w3.org/mid/31f07fc305071823571981b4a3@mail.gmail.com Resent-From: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9767 X-Loop: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Resent-Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Precedence: list List-Id: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: Resent-Message-Id: Resent-Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 07:20:13 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, I just read the WebDAV spec (http://www.webdav.org/specs/rfc2518.html) and hope I could get some clarifications here :) (a) The spec example for PROPFIND has the server returning property: Box type A in response to request for property R:bigbox Does this mean that "Box type A" is the property value? If the server supports setting of arbitary dead properties, does it have to deal with potential XML substructures like these as a property value? (b) The PROPFIND s contain s grouped by their status. This sort of grouping is not compulsory? example, Mon, 18 Jul 2005 02:00:24 GMT Tue, 19 Jul 2005 02:00:24 GMT HTTP/1.1 200 OK vs =20 Mon, 18 Jul 2005 02:00:24 GMT HTTP/1.1 200 OK Tue, 19 Jul 2005 02:00:24 GMT HTTP/1.1 200 OK (c) The HTTP conditional Ifs (If-Modified-Since, If-Match, etc) are not applied to the webDAV introduced methods? Even if Depth header is '0'? Thanks :) I appreciate your input. Regards, CW From w3c-dist-auth-request@frink.w3.org Tue Jul 19 03:33:56 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Dumc0-0007eq-0y for webdav-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 19 Jul 2005 03:33:56 -0400 Received: from frink.w3.org (frink.w3.org [128.30.52.16]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA16696 for ; Tue, 19 Jul 2005 03:33:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists by frink.w3.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1DumbI-0005x6-DR for w3c-dist-auth-dist@listhub.w3.org; Tue, 19 Jul 2005 07:33:12 +0000 Received: from maggie.w3.org ([193.51.208.68]) by frink.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DumbH-0005wT-Jd for w3c-dist-auth@listhub.w3.org; Tue, 19 Jul 2005 07:33:11 +0000 Received: from mail.gmx.de ([213.165.64.20] helo=mail.gmx.net) by maggie.w3.org with smtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DumbD-0008OA-76 for w3c-dist-auth@w3.org; Tue, 19 Jul 2005 07:33:13 +0000 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 19 Jul 2005 07:33:04 -0000 Received: from p508FA885.dip0.t-ipconnect.de (EHLO [192.168.178.21]) [80.143.168.133] by mail.gmx.net (mp023) with SMTP; 19 Jul 2005 09:33:04 +0200 X-Authenticated: #1915285 Message-ID: <42DCACAC.4000605@gmx.de> Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 09:33:00 +0200 From: Julian Reschke User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.5 (Windows/20050711) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ChunWei Ho CC: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org References: <31f07fc305071823571981b4a3@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <31f07fc305071823571981b4a3@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 X-W3C-Scan-Sig: maggie.w3.org 1DumbD-0008OA-76 c6df2b61ce2dae8d06415dbedcff9005 X-Original-To: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Subject: Re: Some questions about WebDAV X-Archived-At: http://www.w3.org/mid/42DCACAC.4000605@gmx.de Resent-From: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9768 X-Loop: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Resent-Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Precedence: list List-Id: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: Resent-Message-Id: Resent-Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 07:33:12 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ChunWei Ho wrote: > Hi, > > I just read the WebDAV spec (http://www.webdav.org/specs/rfc2518.html) > and hope I could get some clarifications here :) > > (a) The spec example for PROPFIND has the server returning property: > > Box type A > > in response to request for property R:bigbox > > Does this mean that "Box type A" is the > property value? If the server supports setting of arbitary dead > properties, does it have to deal with potential XML substructures like > these as a property value? Yes. > (b) The PROPFIND s contain s grouped by their status. > This sort of grouping is not compulsory? example, > > > > > Mon, 18 Jul 2005 02:00:24 GMT > Tue, 19 Jul 2005 02:00:24 GMT > > HTTP/1.1 200 OK > > > > vs > > > > > Mon, 18 Jul 2005 02:00:24 GMT > > HTTP/1.1 200 OK > > > > Tue, 19 Jul 2005 02:00:24 GMT > > HTTP/1.1 200 OK > > I wouldn't say grouping is required (although it's nice because it reduces the size). Clients shouldn't rely on it though (I've seen at least one server not grouping the properties). Do you think this is something the next spec revision should clarify? > (c) The HTTP conditional Ifs (If-Modified-Since, If-Match, etc) are > not applied to the webDAV introduced methods? Even if Depth header is > '0'? That's indeed a very good question. I would assume that currently most servers do not do this for PROPFIND/COPY and so on, but I think RFC2616 requires this. We should collect implementation data (meaning: write test cases) first, and then let's discuss what we do about it... Best regards, Julian -- bytes GmbH -- http://www.greenbytes.de -- tel:+492512807760 From w3c-dist-auth-request@frink.w3.org Tue Jul 19 14:28:55 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Duwpq-0007F1-P8 for webdav-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 19 Jul 2005 14:28:55 -0400 Received: from frink.w3.org (frink.w3.org [128.30.52.16]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA20754 for ; Tue, 19 Jul 2005 14:28:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists by frink.w3.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1DuwnR-0001Qv-SK for w3c-dist-auth-dist@listhub.w3.org; Tue, 19 Jul 2005 18:26:25 +0000 Received: from bart.w3.org ([128.30.52.40]) by frink.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DuwnQ-0001QL-Oh for w3c-dist-auth@listhub.w3.org; Tue, 19 Jul 2005 18:26:24 +0000 Received: from laweleka.osafoundation.org ([204.152.186.98] helo=smtp.osafoundation.org) by bart.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DuwnN-000348-Ai for w3c-dist-auth@w3c.org; Tue, 19 Jul 2005 18:26:24 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E17E14229E for ; Tue, 19 Jul 2005 11:26:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.osafoundation.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (laweleka.osafoundation.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 26861-05 for ; Tue, 19 Jul 2005 11:26:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lisa.local (w002.z065106067.sjc-ca.dsl.cnc.net [65.106.67.2]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B85614229C for ; Tue, 19 Jul 2005 11:26:16 -0700 (PDT) To: "Webdav WG" Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 11:26:08 -0700 From: "Lisa Dusseault" Organization: OSAF Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=iso-8859-15 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: User-Agent: Opera M2/8.01 (MacPPC, build 2092) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new and clamav at osafoundation.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 X-W3C-Scan-Sig: bart.w3.org 1DuwnN-000348-Ai eeac3d54e155f09f850414009271e9bf X-Original-To: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Subject: New draft of RFC2518bis X-Archived-At: http://www.w3.org/mid/op.st6atusdeochem@lisa.local Resent-From: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9769 X-Loop: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Resent-Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Precedence: list List-Id: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: Resent-Message-Id: Resent-Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 18:26:25 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The new draft is available here as well as in the I-D repository: http://ietf.webdav.org/webdav/rfc2518bis/ (also available the overall changes doc and the XML version.) I am about to go on vacation and I won't be on email much until the start= =20 of the IETF week. There are still open issues (and a big open issue abou= t =20 how we track open issues) so we'll have to have some broad discussion. Also missing is basic interoperability results documentation. We never =20 put that together from the interop meetings we held a few years ago; does= =20 anybody even have that handy? Do we know which parts are to be public an= d =20 which were to be kept private? I don't recall exactly which agreements w= e =20 had to protect implementors and encourage them to attend and participate. Lisa From w3c-dist-auth-request@frink.w3.org Tue Jul 19 17:03:21 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DuzFE-0001wb-L7 for webdav-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 19 Jul 2005 17:03:21 -0400 Received: from frink.w3.org (frink.w3.org [128.30.52.16]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA27688 for ; Tue, 19 Jul 2005 17:03:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists by frink.w3.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1DuzDl-0008FF-9a for w3c-dist-auth-dist@listhub.w3.org; Tue, 19 Jul 2005 21:01:45 +0000 Received: from lisa.w3.org ([128.30.52.41]) by frink.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DuzDi-0008Eh-MP for w3c-dist-auth@listhub.w3.org; Tue, 19 Jul 2005 21:01:42 +0000 Received: from services.cse.ucsc.edu ([128.114.48.10]) by lisa.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DuzDb-0002XY-0A for w3c-dist-auth@w3c.org; Tue, 19 Jul 2005 21:01:42 +0000 Received: from tycho (dhcp-59-204.cse.ucsc.edu [128.114.59.204]) by services.cse.ucsc.edu (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j6JL1XdZ021352; Tue, 19 Jul 2005 14:01:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <200507192101.j6JL1XdZ021352@services.cse.ucsc.edu> Reply-To: From: "Jim Whitehead" To: "'Lisa Dusseault'" , "'Webdav WG'" Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 14:01:32 -0700 Organization: UC Santa Cruz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-Reply-To: Thread-index: AcWMj6XP0QGGYlzYQfmsD3eoJrgZ7gAFRwfg X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.0 X-W3C-Scan-Sig: lisa.w3.org 1DuzDb-0002XY-0A 6a81675e5fcef4367a6c3da4c3715083 X-Original-To: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Subject: RE: New draft of RFC2518bis X-Archived-At: http://www.w3.org/mid/200507192101.j6JL1XdZ021352@services.cse.ucsc.edu Resent-From: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9770 X-Loop: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Resent-Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Precedence: list List-Id: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: Resent-Message-Id: Resent-Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 21:01:45 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Also missing is basic interoperability results documentation. > We never put that together from the interop meetings we held > a few years ago; does anybody even have that handy? Do we > know which parts are to be public and which were to be kept > private? I don't recall exactly which agreements we had to > protect implementors and encourage them to attend and participate. As I recall, we did collect some interoperability information, though I think this was mostly Litmus runs. I'm not sure we can find this information, though I suppose it would be worth searching for it. While Litmus can certainly tell us if the servers implement specific features, it's not quite the interoperability information people want for going to draft standard anyway. - Jim From w3c-dist-auth-request@frink.w3.org Wed Jul 20 11:20:00 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DvGMa-0007rJ-2d for webdav-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 20 Jul 2005 11:20:00 -0400 Received: from frink.w3.org (frink.w3.org [128.30.52.16]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA00013 for ; Wed, 20 Jul 2005 11:19:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists by frink.w3.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1DvGK2-0005BU-0y for w3c-dist-auth-dist@listhub.w3.org; Wed, 20 Jul 2005 15:17:22 +0000 Received: from lisa.w3.org ([128.30.52.41]) by frink.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DvGK0-0005Aw-Tm for w3c-dist-auth@listhub.w3.org; Wed, 20 Jul 2005 15:17:20 +0000 Received: from zproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.162.207]) by lisa.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DvGJy-0003Nw-KJ for w3c-dist-auth@w3.org; Wed, 20 Jul 2005 15:17:21 +0000 Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id i11so1432251nzh for ; Wed, 20 Jul 2005 08:17:17 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=q/88jsmyD1yWtQSKgXyD/I61VrdVxIabG8QgEHD2DOTUReWnS2NxcZxPxTVqIeJX4P+4Kv866thtENqQ8QjWZlhIP4amCTX/ZQ7S7cPmHuzbzj5bULeLXgZCKQjyoQ+A7TfNqpCctXRrCXjeTBLRqcM2s3fgYksXNFdQhDHUY/E= Received: by 10.36.222.47 with SMTP id u47mr200245nzg; Wed, 20 Jul 2005 08:16:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.36.159.20 with HTTP; Wed, 20 Jul 2005 08:16:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <31f07fc305072008165be47e70@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 23:16:48 +0800 From: ChunWei Ho Reply-To: ChunWei Ho To: Julian Reschke , w3c-dist-auth@w3.org In-Reply-To: <31f07fc30507190122366e93dd@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline References: <31f07fc305071823571981b4a3@mail.gmail.com> <42DCACAC.4000605@gmx.de> <31f07fc30507190122366e93dd@mail.gmail.com> X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 X-W3C-Scan-Sig: lisa.w3.org 1DvGJy-0003Nw-KJ 02657c828817858c79d26b7b49164582 X-Original-To: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Subject: Re: Some questions about WebDAV X-Archived-At: http://www.w3.org/mid/31f07fc305072008165be47e70@mail.gmail.com Resent-From: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9771 X-Loop: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Resent-Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Precedence: list List-Id: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: Resent-Message-Id: Resent-Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 15:17:22 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, I have another question. When the If header (webDAV's If header) condition is not met, the request should fail with 412 Precondition Failed. If the request is one over multiple resource, like PROPFIND, COPY or MOVE over Depth > 0, should the whole request fail returning 412 Precondition Failed, or fail only for the specific resources returning 207 MultiStatus with some portions giving a 412 Precondition Failed. Thanks again for the help! :) Regards, CW On 7/19/05, ChunWei Ho wrote: > Hi, >=20 > Thanks for your prompt reply. >=20 >=20 > > > (b) The PROPFIND s contain s grouped by their status. > > > This sort of grouping is not compulsory? example, > > I wouldn't say grouping is required (although it's nice because it > > reduces the size). Clients shouldn't rely on it though (I've seen at > > least one server not grouping the properties). > > > > Do you think this is something the next spec revision should clarify? >=20 > Non-compulsory grouping was what I gathered from the current XML DTD > spec itself, but I just wanted to doubly make sure. :) >=20 > > > > > (c) The HTTP conditional Ifs (If-Modified-Since, If-Match, etc) are > > > not applied to the webDAV introduced methods? Even if Depth header is > > > '0'? > > > > That's indeed a very good question. I would assume that currently most > > servers do not do this for PROPFIND/COPY and so on, but I think RFC2616 > > requires this. > > > > We should collect implementation data (meaning: write test cases) first= , > > and then let's discuss what we do about it... >=20 > The question occurs because I am developing a webdav server (to join > the legions already out there) by extending an existing HTTP server in > an educational project. The DELETE method currently supports > If-conditionals, but the conditionals lose meaning when applied to > items with depth > 0 (introduced in webdav). Should I continue to > support If-conditionals for DELETE/MOVE/COPY at depth =3D 0? >=20 > From the view of the webdav spec itself, the If-conditionals on > mutation methods like DELETE/MOVE/COPY were meant to prevent a user > from overwriting something that has changed, but the write locking > scheme present in webdav already addresses that to some extent i > guess. >=20 > Regards, > CW > From w3c-dist-auth-request@frink.w3.org Thu Jul 21 02:51:42 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DvUuD-0005Wy-L8 for webdav-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 02:51:42 -0400 Received: from frink.w3.org (frink.w3.org [128.30.52.16]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA05512 for ; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 02:51:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists by frink.w3.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1DvUrH-0005WA-TV for w3c-dist-auth-dist@listhub.w3.org; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 06:48:39 +0000 Received: from maggie.w3.org ([193.51.208.68]) by frink.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DvUrF-0005V1-UM for w3c-dist-auth@listhub.w3.org; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 06:48:38 +0000 Received: from pop.gmx.de ([213.165.64.20] helo=mail.gmx.net) by maggie.w3.org with smtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DvUrD-00028L-CB for w3c-dist-auth@w3.org; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 06:48:39 +0000 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 21 Jul 2005 06:48:32 -0000 Received: from p508FA53E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de (EHLO [192.168.178.21]) [80.143.165.62] by mail.gmx.net (mp029) with SMTP; 21 Jul 2005 08:48:32 +0200 X-Authenticated: #1915285 Message-ID: <42DF453D.8090706@gmx.de> Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 08:48:29 +0200 From: Julian Reschke User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ChunWei Ho CC: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org References: <31f07fc305071823571981b4a3@mail.gmail.com> <42DCACAC.4000605@gmx.de> <31f07fc30507190122366e93dd@mail.gmail.com> <31f07fc305072008165be47e70@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <31f07fc305072008165be47e70@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.4 X-W3C-Scan-Sig: maggie.w3.org 1DvUrD-00028L-CB 35c46065fa3cc42a72e96ce99907bde1 X-Original-To: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Subject: Re: Some questions about WebDAV X-Archived-At: http://www.w3.org/mid/42DF453D.8090706@gmx.de Resent-From: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9772 X-Loop: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Resent-Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Precedence: list List-Id: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: Resent-Message-Id: Resent-Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 06:48:39 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ChunWei Ho wrote: > Hi, > > I have another question. When the If header (webDAV's If header) > condition is not met, the request should fail with 412 Precondition > Failed. If the request is one over multiple resource, like PROPFIND, > COPY or MOVE over Depth > 0, should the whole request fail returning > 412 Precondition Failed, or fail only for the specific resources > returning 207 MultiStatus with some portions giving a 412 Precondition > Failed. > > Thanks again for the help! :) > > Regards, > CW Hi, judging from : "The If header's purpose is to describe a series of state lists. If the state of the resource to which the header is applied does not match any of the specified state lists then the request MUST fail with a 412 (Precondition Failed). If one of the described state lists matches the state of the resource then the request may succeed." I would say that the server must return a 412 (so partial execution/success of the request is not an option). Best regards, Julian From w3c-dist-auth-request@frink.w3.org Mon Jul 25 11:29:03 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Dx4t4-0004B1-U3 for webdav-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 25 Jul 2005 11:29:03 -0400 Received: from frink.w3.org (frink.w3.org [128.30.52.16]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA00232 for ; Mon, 25 Jul 2005 11:29:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists by frink.w3.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1Dx4qr-0000xU-Ko for w3c-dist-auth-dist@listhub.w3.org; Mon, 25 Jul 2005 15:26:45 +0000 Received: from maggie.w3.org ([193.51.208.68]) by frink.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Dx4qq-0000wl-7X for w3c-dist-auth@listhub.w3.org; Mon, 25 Jul 2005 15:26:44 +0000 Received: from mail.groupe-atlantic.com ([195.6.126.249]) by maggie.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Dx4qj-0004LH-Kl for w3c-dist-auth@w3.org; Mon, 25 Jul 2005 15:26:46 +0000 Received: by mail.groupe-atlantic.com (Postfix, from userid 501) id DCD8517F06; Mon, 25 Jul 2005 17:35:48 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ntdompivot.groupe-atlantic.com (fwall [192.168.199.1]) by mail.groupe-atlantic.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF70D17EFF for ; Mon, 25 Jul 2005 17:35:48 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: To: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 6.5.1 January 21, 2004 Message-ID: From: ageslin@groupe-atlantic.com Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2005 17:27:17 +0200 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on NTDOMPIVOT/GROUPE-ATLANTIC(Release 6.5.1|January 21, 2004) at 25/07/2005 17:26:34, Serialize complete at 25/07/2005 17:26:34 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_alternative 0054D3DEC1257049_=" X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.4 X-W3C-Scan-Sig: maggie.w3.org 1Dx4qj-0004LH-Kl d1939583318ed505a970644b79f1ee6d X-Original-To: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Subject: Issue with Greg's davlib.py module X-Archived-At: http://www.w3.org/mid/OF20E43060.44639B73-ONC1257049.00547037-C1257049.0054D3E1@groupe-atlantic.com Resent-From: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9773 X-Loop: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Resent-Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Precedence: list List-Id: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: Resent-Message-Id: Resent-Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2005 15:26:45 +0000 Message en plusieurs parties au format MIME --=_alternative 0054D3DEC1257049_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Hi there. I hope I'm posting to the right mailing-list, I have an issue with Greg's davlib.py module (python). The DAV class is based on the generic HTTPConnection class, I can successfully run some propfind, mkcol, put and delete command on my Apache server, but can only run 1 command per session or I get an fp.readline "Connection Reset by peer" issue in getresponse. Therefore I have to add sesssion.close() and session.connect between each command I want to send to my server. This is annoying as performance goes down. Is there any "flush" function I have missed, and any other explanation for this ? I would like to send as many command as wanted in the same server session. Best regards Arnaud --=_alternative 0054D3DEC1257049_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Hi there.

I hope I'm posting to the right mailing-list, I have an issue with Greg's davlib.py module (python).

The DAV class is based on the generic HTTPConnection class, I can successfully run some propfind, mkcol, put and delete command on my Apache server, but can only run 1 command per session or I get an fp.readline "Connection Reset by peer" issue in getresponse.

Therefore I have to add sesssion.close() and session.connect between each command I want to send to my server. This is annoying as performance goes down.

Is there any "flush" function I have missed, and any other explanation for this ? I would like to send as many command as wanted in the same server session.

Best regards
Arnaud --=_alternative 0054D3DEC1257049_=-- From w3c-dist-auth-request@frink.w3.org Mon Jul 25 12:58:28 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Dx6Hb-0000B7-Sb for webdav-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 25 Jul 2005 12:58:28 -0400 Received: from frink.w3.org (frink.w3.org [128.30.52.16]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA07153 for ; Mon, 25 Jul 2005 12:58:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists by frink.w3.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1Dx6GP-0007Bx-VH for w3c-dist-auth-dist@listhub.w3.org; Mon, 25 Jul 2005 16:57:13 +0000 Received: from maggie.w3.org ([193.51.208.68]) by frink.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Dx6GN-0007BJ-Gx for w3c-dist-auth@listhub.w3.org; Mon, 25 Jul 2005 16:57:11 +0000 Received: from mail27.sea5.speakeasy.net ([69.17.117.29]) by maggie.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Dx6GI-0006JY-2z for w3c-dist-auth@w3.org; Mon, 25 Jul 2005 16:57:13 +0000 Received: (qmail 7676 invoked from network); 25 Jul 2005 16:57:02 -0000 Received: from dsl081-070-219.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net (HELO cse.ucsc.edu) (elias@[64.81.70.219]) (envelope-sender ) by mail27.sea5.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with AES256-SHA encrypted SMTP for ; 25 Jul 2005 16:57:01 -0000 Message-ID: <42E519DC.8090309@cse.ucsc.edu> Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2005 09:57:00 -0700 From: Elias Sinderson User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.5 (Windows/20040207) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ageslin@groupe-atlantic.com CC: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 X-W3C-Scan-Sig: maggie.w3.org 1Dx6GI-0006JY-2z f53cc8541f62369d57052b753e3d0049 X-Original-To: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Subject: Re: Issue with Greg's davlib.py module X-Archived-At: http://www.w3.org/mid/42E519DC.8090309@cse.ucsc.edu Resent-From: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9774 X-Loop: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Resent-Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Precedence: list List-Id: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: Resent-Message-Id: Resent-Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2005 16:57:13 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ageslin@groupe-atlantic.com wrote: > I hope I'm posting to the right mailing-list, I have an issue with > Greg's davlib.py module (python). Well, technically speaking, this probably isn't the right list, however there is a great deal of WebDAV expertise to be found here. :-) > [...] I can successfully run some propfind, mkcol, put and delete > command on my Apache server, but can only run 1 command per session or > I get an fp.readline "Connection Reset by peer" issue in getresponse. It sounds as if the 'Connection: Keep-Alive' header isn't being set . . . > Therefore I have to add sesssion.close() and session.connect between > each command I want to send to my server. This is annoying as > performance goes down. [...] Yes, this is the very reason Keep-Alive (and pipelining) was introduced - so that one wouldn't need to tear down connections between requests to the same server. There are several decent web pages that explain the details of the Keep-Alive header and pipelining of requests [1, 2], but I'd recommend starting with the HTTP specification [3] itself and then referring to other sites if you need more information. FYI, I looked briefly at the davlib.py and saw no mention of the header. . . Also, one should note that, as useful as it is, davlib.py is not really distributed as an industrial strength DAV library. Cheers, Elias [1] [2] [3] From w3c-dist-auth-request@frink.w3.org Mon Jul 25 13:21:40 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Dx6e4-0005ZT-K2 for webdav-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 25 Jul 2005 13:21:40 -0400 Received: from frink.w3.org (frink.w3.org [128.30.52.16]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA08585 for ; Mon, 25 Jul 2005 13:21:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists by frink.w3.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1Dx6dF-0005kL-Fl for w3c-dist-auth-dist@listhub.w3.org; Mon, 25 Jul 2005 17:20:49 +0000 Received: from lisa.w3.org ([128.30.52.41]) by frink.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Dx6dD-0005jR-S6 for w3c-dist-auth@listhub.w3.org; Mon, 25 Jul 2005 17:20:47 +0000 Received: from mail23.sea5.speakeasy.net ([69.17.117.25]) by lisa.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Dx6d5-0006iK-GS for w3c-dist-auth@w3.org; Mon, 25 Jul 2005 17:20:47 +0000 Received: (qmail 13532 invoked from network); 25 Jul 2005 17:20:38 -0000 Received: from dsl081-070-219.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net (HELO cse.ucsc.edu) (elias@[64.81.70.219]) (envelope-sender ) by mail23.sea5.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with AES256-SHA encrypted SMTP for ; 25 Jul 2005 17:20:38 -0000 Message-ID: <42E51F65.6000108@cse.ucsc.edu> Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2005 10:20:37 -0700 From: Elias Sinderson User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.5 (Windows/20040207) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ageslin@groupe-atlantic.com CC: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org References: <42E519DC.8090309@cse.ucsc.edu> In-Reply-To: <42E519DC.8090309@cse.ucsc.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.0 X-W3C-Scan-Sig: lisa.w3.org 1Dx6d5-0006iK-GS 3cfa9dc818857ab97de841dac5d5b24a X-Original-To: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Subject: Re: Issue with Greg's davlib.py module X-Archived-At: http://www.w3.org/mid/42E51F65.6000108@cse.ucsc.edu Resent-From: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9775 X-Loop: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Resent-Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Precedence: list List-Id: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: Resent-Message-Id: Resent-Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2005 17:20:49 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Elias Sinderson wrote: > I looked briefly at the davlib.py and saw no mention of the > [Connection: Keep-Alive] header [...] Silly me, obviously the place to look for this is in Pythons httplib module. . . Check the docs on python.org for information on how to set arbitrary headers. Specifically, see , where putheader() is briefly discussed. Cheers, Elias From w3c-dist-auth-request@frink.w3.org Tue Jul 26 03:03:00 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DxJSt-0001Or-Sc for webdav-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 26 Jul 2005 03:03:00 -0400 Received: from frink.w3.org (frink.w3.org [128.30.52.16]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA22310 for ; Tue, 26 Jul 2005 03:02:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists by frink.w3.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1DxJQO-00034f-4J for w3c-dist-auth-dist@listhub.w3.org; Tue, 26 Jul 2005 07:00:24 +0000 Received: from lisa.w3.org ([128.30.52.41]) by frink.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DxJQK-000344-9G for w3c-dist-auth@listhub.w3.org; Tue, 26 Jul 2005 07:00:20 +0000 Received: from mail.groupe-atlantic.com ([195.6.126.249]) by lisa.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DxJQ6-0007xd-Li for w3c-dist-auth@w3.org; Tue, 26 Jul 2005 07:00:20 +0000 Received: by mail.groupe-atlantic.com (Postfix, from userid 501) id D718F17EFF; Tue, 26 Jul 2005 09:09:27 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ntdompivot.groupe-atlantic.com (fwall [192.168.199.1]) by mail.groupe-atlantic.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77A9317EF4 for ; Tue, 26 Jul 2005 09:09:27 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: <42E51F65.6000108@cse.ucsc.edu> To: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 6.5.1 January 21, 2004 Message-ID: From: ageslin@groupe-atlantic.com Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 09:00:57 +0200 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on NTDOMPIVOT/GROUPE-ATLANTIC(Release 6.5.1|January 21, 2004) at 26/07/2005 09:00:05, Serialize complete at 26/07/2005 09:00:05 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_alternative 002674BAC125704A_=" X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 X-W3C-Scan-Sig: lisa.w3.org 1DxJQ6-0007xd-Li 6dc5836c085027696e74316b942d5dd2 X-Original-To: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Subject: Re: Issue with Greg's davlib.py module X-Archived-At: http://www.w3.org/mid/OFF3EC434D.62D1A04D-ONC125704A.002663A3-C125704A.002674C2@groupe-atlantic.com Resent-From: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9776 X-Loop: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Resent-Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Precedence: list List-Id: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: Resent-Message-Id: Resent-Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 07:00:24 +0000 Message en plusieurs parties au format MIME --=_alternative 002674BAC125704A_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks a lot Elias for your help, I will check that header you're talking=20 about, and will inform Greg of this for his information. Sorry for not posting in the right mailing-list, but couldn't find a more=20 appropriate one. Best regards Arnaud Elias Sinderson =20 Envoy=E9 par : w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org 25/07/2005 19:20 A ageslin@groupe-atlantic.com cc w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Objet Re: Issue with Greg's davlib.py module Elias Sinderson wrote: > I looked briefly at the davlib.py and saw no mention of the=20 > [Connection: Keep-Alive] header [...] Silly me, obviously the place to look for this is in Pythons httplib=20 module. . . Check the docs on python.org for information on how to set=20 arbitrary headers. Specifically, see=20 , where=20 putheader() is briefly discussed. Cheers, Elias --=_alternative 002674BAC125704A_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks a lot Elias for your help, I will check that header you're talking about, and will inform Greg of this for his information.

Sorry for not posting in the right m= ailing-list, but couldn't find a more appropriate one.

Best regards
Arnaud




Elias Sinderson <e= lias@cse.ucsc.edu>
Envoy=E9 par : w3c-dist-auth-request= @w3.org

25/07/2005 19:20

A
ageslin@groupe-atlantic= .com
cc
w3c-dist-auth@w3.org
Objet
Re: Issue with Greg's d= avlib.py module






Elias Sinderson wrote:

> I looked briefly at the davlib.py and saw no mention of the
> [Connection: Keep-Alive] header [...]

Silly me, obviously the place to look for this is in Pythons httplib
module. . . Check the docs on python.org for information on how to set
arbitrary headers. Specifically, see
<http://docs.python.org/lib/httpconnection-objects.html>, where
putheader() is briefly discussed.


Cheers,
Elias
--=_alternative 002674BAC125704A_=-- From noreply@ietf.org Fri Jul 29 06:14:51 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DyRtD-0006Td-0g for webdav-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 29 Jul 2005 06:14:51 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA26044 for ; Fri, 29 Jul 2005 06:14:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200507291014.GAA26044@ietf.org> Received: from host94-103.pool81119.interbusiness.it ([81.119.103.94] helo=ietf.org) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1DySOo-0003dt-Kw for webdav-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 29 Jul 2005 06:47:33 -0400 From: "Mail Delivery Subsystem" To: webdav-archive@ietf.org Subject: report Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2005 12:02:44 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_86E4AE2A.561B5458" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 3.3 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 9404aa2ccc871248c2288463bebdd6b9 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_86E4AE2A.561B5458 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The message was not delivered due to the following reason: Your message could not be delivered because the destination server was unreachable within the allowed queue period. 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29 Jul 2005 08:39:43 -0400 Received: from frink.w3.org (frink.w3.org [128.30.52.16]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA05194 for ; Fri, 29 Jul 2005 08:39:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists by frink.w3.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1DyU6o-0008Pv-V6 for w3c-dist-auth-dist@listhub.w3.org; Fri, 29 Jul 2005 12:37:02 +0000 Received: from lisa.w3.org ([128.30.52.41]) by frink.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DyU6m-0008OW-6I for w3c-dist-auth@listhub.w3.org; Fri, 29 Jul 2005 12:37:00 +0000 Received: from pop.gmx.de ([213.165.64.20] helo=mail.gmx.net) by lisa.w3.org with smtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DyU6e-0002Uq-GD for w3c-dist-auth@w3.org; Fri, 29 Jul 2005 12:37:00 +0000 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 29 Jul 2005 12:36:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (EHLO [192.168.1.40]) [217.91.125.2] by mail.gmx.net (mp003) with SMTP; 29 Jul 2005 14:36:50 +0200 X-Authenticated: #1915285 Message-ID: <42EA22DF.6000805@gmx.de> Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2005 14:36:47 +0200 From: Julian Reschke User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------050608010105040903060408" X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 X-W3C-Scan-Sig: lisa.w3.org 1DyU6e-0002Uq-GD f70031ccfb82067d64d0c7e97986e4df X-Original-To: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Subject: Request for comments: draft-reschke-webdav-mount-latest X-Archived-At: http://www.w3.org/mid/42EA22DF.6000805@gmx.de Resent-From: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9777 X-Loop: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Resent-Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org Precedence: list List-Id: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: Resent-Message-Id: Resent-Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2005 12:37:02 +0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------050608010105040903060408 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, this document () describes an extremely simple and platform/browser independant protocol/format for WebDAV servers to instruct the local webdav client to mount a specific URL and open a window (for a child collection of it). We intend to support this format in future SAP Netweaver releases, but it's designed to be open and extensible (thus we're choosing the IETF process). Server implementation is trivial; at this point we're mainly looking for the feedback from client programmers (Jim L., are you listening??? :-). Note: the draft hasn't been submitted to the IETF yet (because of the forthcoming IETF meeting). Best regards, Julian --------------050608010105040903060408 Content-Type: text/plain; name="draft-reschke-webdav-mount-latest.txt" Content-Disposition: inline; filename="draft-reschke-webdav-mount-latest.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Network Working Group J. Reschke Internet-Draft greenbytes Expires: January 30, 2006 July 29, 2005 Mounting WebDAV (Web Distributed Authoring and Versioning) servers draft-reschke-webdav-mount-latest Status of this Memo By submitting this Internet-Draft, each author represents that any applicable patent or other IPR claims of which he or she is aware have been or will be disclosed, and any of which he or she becomes aware will be disclosed, in accordance with Section 6 of BCP 79. Internet-Drafts are working documents of the Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF), its areas, and its working groups. Note that other groups may also distribute working documents as Internet- Drafts. Internet-Drafts are draft documents valid for a maximum of six months and may be updated, replaced, or obsoleted by other documents at any time. It is inappropriate to use Internet-Drafts as reference material or to cite them other than as "work in progress." The list of current Internet-Drafts can be accessed at http://www.ietf.org/ietf/1id-abstracts.txt. The list of Internet-Draft Shadow Directories can be accessed at http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html. This Internet-Draft will expire on January 30, 2006. Copyright Notice Copyright (C) The Internet Society (2005). Abstract This document specifies a mechanism and a document format that allow WebDAV servers to send "mounting" information to a WebDAV client. The protocol is designed to work on any platform and with any combination of browser and WebDAV client, relying solely on the well- understood dispatch of documents through their MIME type. Reschke Expires January 30, 2006 [Page 1] Internet-Draft Mounting WebDAV servers July 2005 Table of Contents 1. Introduction . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 2. Terminology . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 3. Format . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 3.1 url . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 3.2 open . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 4. Example . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 5. IANA Considerations . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 5.1 MIME type registration . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 6. Security Considerations . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 7. References . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 7.1 Normative References . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 7.2 Informative References . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 Author's Address . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 A. Alternative approaches . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 A.1 ...through HTML/CSS extensions . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 A.2 ...through custom URI schemes . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 Intellectual Property and Copyright Statements . . . . . . . . 9 Reschke Expires January 30, 2006 [Page 2] Internet-Draft Mounting WebDAV servers July 2005 1. Introduction By definition, a WebDAV server ([RFC2518]) is an HTTP server as well ([RFC2616]). Most WebDAV servers can be (at least partly) operated from an HTML-based user interface in a web browser. However, it is frequently desirable to be able to switch from an HTML-based view to a presentation provided by a native WebDAV client, directly supporting the authoring features defined in WebDAV and related specifications. For completeness, Appendix A lists other approaches that have been implemented in existing clients. 2. Terminology The terminology used here follows and extends that in the WebDAV Distributed Authoring Protocol specification [RFC2518]. The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT", "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this document are to be interpreted as described in [RFC2119]. This document uses XML DTD fragments ([XML]) as a purely notational convention. In particular: o Element names use the namespace "http://purl.org/NET/webdav/mount". o Element ordering is irrelevant. o Extension elements/attributes (elements/attributes not already defined as valid child elements) may be added anywhere, except when explicitly stated otherwise. 3. Format A WebDAV mount request is encoded in a specific XML format ([XML]) with a well-defined MIME type (see Section 5.1). The MIME type allows user agents to dispatch the content to a handler specific to the system's WebDAV client. The elements defined below use the namespace "http://purl.org/NET/webdav/mount". Reschke Expires January 30, 2006 [Page 3] Internet-Draft Mounting WebDAV servers July 2005 3.1 url The mandatory element provides the HTTP URL of the WebDAV collection that should be mounted by the client. 3.2 open The optional element instructs the client to display the specified child collection; it's URL is computed by concatenating this element's value with the URL obtained from the element. 4. Example In the example below, the server instructs the user agent to mount the WebDAV URL "http://www.example.com/documents" in it's WebDAV client, and then to open the child collection "/user42/inbox", identified by the URL ""http://www.example.com/documents/user42/inbox". >> Request: GET /Coll/&mount-me HTTP/1.1 Host: www.example.com >> Response: HTTP/1.1 200 OK Content-Type: application/davmount+xml Content-Length: xxx http://www.example.com/documents /user42/inbox Reschke Expires January 30, 2006 [Page 4] Internet-Draft Mounting WebDAV servers July 2005 5. IANA Considerations 5.1 MIME type registration MIME media type name: application MIME subtype name: davmount+xml Mandatory parameters: none Optional parameters: "charset": This parameter has identical semantics to the charset parameter of the "application/xml" media type as specified in [RFC3023]. Encoding considerations: Identical to those of "application/xml" as described in [RFC3023], section 3.2. Security considerations: As defined in this specification. In addition, as this media type uses the "+xml" convention, it shares the same security considerations as described in [RFC3023], section 10. Interoperability considerations: There are no known interoperability issues. Published specification: This specification. Additional information: Magic number(s): As specified for "application/xml" in [RFC3023], section 3.2. Reschke Expires January 30, 2006 [Page 5] Internet-Draft Mounting WebDAV servers July 2005 File extension: .davmount Fragment identifiers: As specified for "application/xml" in [RFC3023], section 5. Base URI: As specified in [RFC3023], section 6. Macintosh File Type code: TEXT Person and email address to contact for further information: Julian Reschke Intended usage: COMMON Author/Change controller: IESG 6. Security Considerations [[anchor8: forgetmenot]] 7. References 7.1 Normative References [RFC2119] Bradner, S., "Key words for use in RFCs to Indicate Requirement Levels", BCP 14, RFC 2119, March 1997. [RFC2518] Goland, Y., Whitehead, E., Faizi, A., Carter, S., and D. Jensen, "HTTP Extensions for Distributed Authoring -- WEBDAV", RFC 2518, February 1999. [RFC2616] Fielding, R., Gettys, J., Mogul, J., Frystyk, H., Masinter, L., Leach, P., and T. Berners-Lee, "Hypertext Transfer Protocol -- HTTP/1.1", RFC 2616, June 1999. Reschke Expires January 30, 2006 [Page 6] Internet-Draft Mounting WebDAV servers July 2005 [RFC3023] Murata, M., St.Laurent, S., and D. Kohn, "XML Media Types", RFC 3023, January 2001. [RFC3986] Berners-Lee, T., Fielding, R., and L. Masinter, "Uniform Resource Identifier (URI): Generic Syntax", STD 66, RFC 3986, January 2005. [XML] Bray, T., Paoli, J., Sperberg-McQueen, C., Maler, E., and F. Yergeau, "Extensible Markup Language (XML) 1.0 (Third Edition)", W3C REC-xml-20040204, February 2004, . 7.2 Informative References [WEBARCH] Walsh, N. and I. Jacobs, "Architecture of the World Wide Web, Volume One", W3C REC REC-webarch-20041215, December 2004, . Author's Address Julian F. Reschke greenbytes GmbH Salzmannstrasse 152 Muenster, NW 48159 Germany Phone: +49 251 2807760 Fax: +49 251 2807761 Email: julian.reschke@greenbytes.de URI: http://greenbytes.de/tech/webdav/ Appendix A. Alternative approaches A.1 ...through HTML/CSS extensions Microsoft Internet Explorer implements a CSS extension that allows switching to it's own WebDAV client ("Webfolder", see ). However, at the time of this writing this extension was not implemented by any other user agent. A.2 ...through custom URI schemes The "kio" library of the "K Desktop Enviroment" () uses the URI scheme "webdav" to dispatch to the system's WebDAV client. This URI scheme is not registered, nor Reschke Expires January 30, 2006 [Page 7] Internet-Draft Mounting WebDAV servers July 2005 supported on other platforms. Furthermore, W3C's "Architecture of the World Wide Web, Volume One" explicitly advises against defining new schemes when existing schemes can be used: "A specification SHOULD reuse an existing URI scheme (rather than create a new one) when it provides the desired properties of identifiers and their relation to resources." (see [WEBARCH], Section 2.4) Reschke Expires January 30, 2006 [Page 8] Internet-Draft Mounting WebDAV servers July 2005 Intellectual Property Statement The IETF takes no position regarding the validity or scope of any Intellectual Property Rights or other rights that might be claimed to pertain to the implementation or use of the technology described in this document or the extent to which any license under such rights might or might not be available; nor does it represent that it has made any independent effort to identify any such rights. Information on the procedures with respect to rights in RFC documents can be found in BCP 78 and BCP 79. Copies of IPR disclosures made to the IETF Secretariat and any assurances of licenses to be made available, or the result of an attempt made to obtain a general license or permission for the use of such proprietary rights by implementers or users of this specification can be obtained from the IETF on-line IPR repository at http://www.ietf.org/ipr. The IETF invites any interested party to bring to its attention any copyrights, patents or patent applications, or other proprietary rights that may cover technology that may be required to implement this standard. Please address the information to the IETF at ietf-ipr@ietf.org. Disclaimer of Validity This document and the information contained herein are provided on an "AS IS" basis and THE CONTRIBUTOR, THE ORGANIZATION HE/SHE REPRESENTS OR IS SPONSORED BY (IF ANY), THE INTERNET SOCIETY AND THE INTERNET ENGINEERING TASK FORCE DISCLAIM ALL WARRANTIES, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO ANY WARRANTY THAT THE USE OF THE INFORMATION HEREIN WILL NOT INFRINGE ANY RIGHTS OR ANY IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY OR FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. Copyright Statement Copyright (C) The Internet Society (2005). This document is subject to the rights, licenses and restrictions contained in BCP 78, and except as set forth therein, the authors retain all their rights. Acknowledgment Funding for the RFC Editor function is currently provided by the Internet Society. Reschke Expires January 30, 2006 [Page 9] --------------050608010105040903060408--