From nobody Tue Sep 8 22:09:44 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: webpush@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: webpush@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 957491B3C00 for ; Tue, 8 Sep 2015 22:09:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.002 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.002 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_20=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id onC4tlCeh9Oh for ; Tue, 8 Sep 2015 22:09:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gator4135.hostgator.com (gator4135.hostgator.com [192.185.4.147]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 56DB11B3BC9 for ; Tue, 8 Sep 2015 22:09:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [50.174.96.154] (port=39350 helo=[192.168.1.14]) by gator4135.hostgator.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.85) (envelope-from ) id 1ZZXdc-000JPm-L0 for webpush@ietf.org; Wed, 09 Sep 2015 00:09:40 -0500 From: Shida Schubert Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <93A7701A-A14E-4CBD-8B4A-D3718DA86935@ntt-at.com> Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2015 22:09:39 -0700 To: webpush@ietf.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.2 \(2104\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.2104) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - gator4135.hostgator.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - ntt-at.com X-BWhitelist: no X-Source-IP: 50.174.96.154 X-Exim-ID: 1ZZXdc-000JPm-L0 X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Source-Sender: ([192.168.1.14]) [50.174.96.154]:39350 X-Source-Auth: shida@agnada.com X-Email-Count: 1 X-Source-Cap: c3NoaWRhO3NzaGlkYTtnYXRvcjQxMzUuaG9zdGdhdG9yLmNvbQ== Archived-At: Subject: [Webpush] Call for Adoption : encryption draft as a WG item X-BeenThere: webpush@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of potential IETF work on a web push protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2015 05:09:42 -0000 All,=20 At the last meeting, we discussed the need for an encryption for web = push protocol.=20 There were some debates about moving the encryption draft written by = Martin (draft-thomson-webpush-encryption-01) either as part of the core = protocol draft or as a separate draft.=20 I want to get a sense of the WG in adopting Martin=E2=80=99s draft as a = baseline for WG draft, addressing the milestone of =E2=80=9Cweb push = encryption", with a target of a Product Standard.=20 This draft will be submitted to IESG at the same time as the core = protocol draft.=20 Regards Shida= From nobody Wed Sep 9 16:55:34 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: webpush@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: webpush@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E13D1B4D9A for ; 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b=jOxxgRMMJMfoMZ6Y9GV8UiVWHpeJSCjrYxp/LwNAkq8AlYak3PNkckrzqBbaleJsYa06obRExoKo0lvTEs6ieJrqvFo0Vf40H+Ds0SsucloVG6XVb358zmY3Xg1li+WNj1FprUDuwtDBI5190CYA3LUv79X5AHCSjxz32bowYLQ= Received: from BY2PR0301MB0647.namprd03.prod.outlook.com (10.160.63.14) by BY2PR0301MB0647.namprd03.prod.outlook.com (10.160.63.14) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.262.15; Wed, 9 Sep 2015 23:55:27 +0000 Received: from BY2PR0301MB0647.namprd03.prod.outlook.com ([10.160.63.14]) by BY2PR0301MB0647.namprd03.prod.outlook.com ([10.160.63.14]) with mapi id 15.01.0262.011; Wed, 9 Sep 2015 23:55:27 +0000 From: Brian Raymor To: Shida Schubert , "webpush@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Webpush] Call for Adoption : encryption draft as a WG item Thread-Index: AQHQ6r2/Dkkby4y8EEC9nyExFtRU6540vtQg Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2015 23:55:27 +0000 Message-ID: References: <93A7701A-A14E-4CBD-8B4A-D3718DA86935@ntt-at.com> In-Reply-To: <93A7701A-A14E-4CBD-8B4A-D3718DA86935@ntt-at.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=Brian.Raymor@microsoft.com; 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DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:BY2PR0301MB0647; H:BY2PR0301MB0647.namprd03.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1; LANG:en; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: microsoft.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:23 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: microsoft.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 09 Sep 2015 23:55:27.6642 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 72f988bf-86f1-41af-91ab-2d7cd011db47 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BY2PR0301MB0647 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Webpush] Call for Adoption : encryption draft as a WG item X-BeenThere: webpush@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of potential IETF work on a web push protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2015 23:55:32 -0000 SGkgU2hpZGEsDQoNClNpbmNlIGRyYWZ0LXRob21zb24td2VicHVzaC1lbmNyeXB0aW9uLTAxIGlz IGRlcGVuZGVudCBvbiBkcmFmdC10aG9tc29uLWh0dHAtZW5jcnlwdGlvbi0wMSwgaXMgdGhlIGlu dGVudCB0byBsaWFpc29uIHdpdGggSFRUUGJpcyBhdCBJRVRGIDk0IGFuZCByZXF1ZXN0IGEgbWVj aGFuaXNtIGZvciBlbmNyeXB0ZWQgY29udGVudC1lbmNvZGluZz8gVGhpcyB3b3VsZCBiZSBzaW1p bGFyIHRvIHRoZSByZXF1ZXN0IGZyb20gSFRUUGJpcyB0byBUTFMgdG8gYWRkcmVzcyBuZXh0IHBy b3RvY29sIG5lZ290aWF0aW9uIGF0IElFVEYgODUgKFNsaWRlIDcpIC0gaHR0cDovL3d3dy5pZXRm Lm9yZy9wcm9jZWVkaW5ncy84NS9zbGlkZXMvc2xpZGVzLTg1LXRscy0xLnBkZi4NCg0KLi4uQnJp YW4NCg0KLS0tLS1PcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlLS0tLS0NCkZyb206IFdlYnB1c2ggW21haWx0bzp3 ZWJwdXNoLWJvdW5jZXNAaWV0Zi5vcmddIE9uIEJlaGFsZiBPZiBTaGlkYSBTY2h1YmVydA0KU2Vu dDogVHVlc2RheSwgU2VwdGVtYmVyIDgsIDIwMTUgMTA6MTAgUE0NClRvOiB3ZWJwdXNoQGlldGYu b3JnDQpTdWJqZWN0OiBbV2VicHVzaF0gQ2FsbCBmb3IgQWRvcHRpb24gOiBlbmNyeXB0aW9uIGRy YWZ0IGFzIGEgV0cgaXRlbQ0KDQpBbGwsIA0KDQpBdCB0aGUgbGFzdCBtZWV0aW5nLCB3ZSBkaXNj dXNzZWQgdGhlIG5lZWQgZm9yIGFuIGVuY3J5cHRpb24gZm9yIHdlYiBwdXNoIHByb3RvY29sLiAN Cg0KVGhlcmUgd2VyZSBzb21lIGRlYmF0ZXMgYWJvdXQgbW92aW5nIHRoZSBlbmNyeXB0aW9uIGRy YWZ0IHdyaXR0ZW4gYnkgTWFydGluIChkcmFmdC10aG9tc29uLXdlYnB1c2gtZW5jcnlwdGlvbi0w MSkgZWl0aGVyIGFzIHBhcnQgb2YgdGhlIGNvcmUgcHJvdG9jb2wgZHJhZnQgb3IgYXMgYSBzZXBh cmF0ZSBkcmFmdC4gDQoNCkkgd2FudCB0byBnZXQgYSBzZW5zZSBvZiB0aGUgV0cgaW4gYWRvcHRp bmcgTWFydGlu4oCZcyBkcmFmdCBhcyBhIGJhc2VsaW5lIGZvciBXRyBkcmFmdCwgYWRkcmVzc2lu ZyB0aGUgbWlsZXN0b25lIG9mIOKAnHdlYiBwdXNoIGVuY3J5cHRpb24iLCB3aXRoIGEgdGFyZ2V0 IG9mIGEgUHJvZHVjdCBTdGFuZGFyZC4gDQoNClRoaXMgZHJhZnQgd2lsbCBiZSBzdWJtaXR0ZWQg dG8gSUVTRyBhdCB0aGUgc2FtZSB0aW1lIGFzIHRoZSBjb3JlIHByb3RvY29sIGRyYWZ0LiANCg0K UmVnYXJkcw0KIFNoaWRhDQpfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fXw0KV2VicHVzaCBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCldlYnB1c2hAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCmh0dHBzOi8v d3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vd2VicHVzaA0K From nobody Wed Sep 9 18:11:56 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: webpush@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: webpush@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 105291B2BE9 for ; Wed, 9 Sep 2015 18:11:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id n-4BKQKuHan6 for ; Wed, 9 Sep 2015 18:11:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yk0-x233.google.com (mail-yk0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c07::233]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 62EB81A9234 for ; Wed, 9 Sep 2015 18:11:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by ykdt18 with SMTP id t18so22048289ykd.3 for ; Wed, 09 Sep 2015 18:11:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=nNldsEpWlLDAisViHDgseUjFR8mDUSD8g2/TeVE9kO4=; b=N7gSdgQN++9WfzbPcbFHeuijKrs8eguqSOpoKfoaBB4BrwVxZKi1mPhioK65yXa3Fb btWwEZptKpLBkrQ8+Kk3P5iZ6dZjGiJv6RNUma7VHiMegrTovwXHoo2hceLFTM40was1 eAHg0qhT1d/osMSrdQH/hZ5U1GPadIAsguAlWUvo69GrpFjTjKa5sGRhT8ilm8XBcmPR Mg8xZ6hy8FyDbL9WHanwJPEYPUwQmpHoiNmT3e17OEmSwdo+Po5wPS4FaZpCBeG7IeYi SfsBvvQXbc/50qrqy1Xozf0lAcSrWky7+GGE/PuensTcHBy/tO8GSYiE8rRILOzuYacK go+w== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.170.151.5 with SMTP id s5mr42704204ykc.98.1441847513588; Wed, 09 Sep 2015 18:11:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.129.133.130 with HTTP; Wed, 9 Sep 2015 18:11:53 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <93A7701A-A14E-4CBD-8B4A-D3718DA86935@ntt-at.com> Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2015 18:11:53 -0700 Message-ID: From: Martin Thomson To: Brian Raymor Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Cc: Shida Schubert , "webpush@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Webpush] Call for Adoption : encryption draft as a WG item X-BeenThere: webpush@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of potential IETF work on a web push protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2015 01:11:56 -0000 On 9 September 2015 at 16:55, Brian Raymor wro= te: > Since draft-thomson-webpush-encryption-01 is dependent on draft-thomson-h= ttp-encryption-01, is the intent to liaison with HTTPbis at IETF 94 and req= uest a mechanism for encrypted content-encoding? This would be similar to t= he request from HTTPbis to TLS to address next protocol negotiation at IETF= 85 (Slide 7) - http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/85/slides/slides-85-tls-1.p= df. I think that would be best, though I'd suggest that our area directors are the best people to consult on the distribution of work. As it was with ALPN, we give up change control when that happens and would have to respect the decisions made with respect to that work as it evolves. And even as I observe that we're shipping code that uses these specifications - I think that is OK and realistically the only way that this whole process is going to work properly. On a separate point entirely, I'm currently considering whether adding another key exchange method for the new curve25519 work that is about to be published. If this is adopted, then I will likely propose that the working group consider defining how 25519 works, though I think it could remain optional. Some implementations will want to use 25519 if it is available; some would want to use it even it were not :) As much as I don't like having too many choices, this option does less harm than its potential advantages. From nobody Thu Sep 10 09:14:19 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: webpush@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: webpush@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49EC21B32AC for ; Thu, 10 Sep 2015 09:14:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id h4a3oRI5yWmQ for ; Thu, 10 Sep 2015 09:14:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDE521B32D1 for ; Thu, 10 Sep 2015 09:14:11 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.4.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20150910161411.3092.51758.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2015 09:14:11 -0700 From: IETF Secretariat Archived-At: Subject: [Webpush] Milestones changed for webpush WG X-BeenThere: webpush@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: Discussion of potential IETF work on a web push protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2015 16:14:18 -0000 Changed milestone "Send web push protocol draft to the IESG as Proposed Standard", set due date to May 2016 from November 2015. Added milestone "Send web push encryption draft to IESG as Proposed Standard", due May 2016. URL: https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/webpush/charter/ From nobody Thu Sep 10 14:40:10 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: webpush@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: webpush@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37D3D1B3601 for ; Thu, 10 Sep 2015 14:40:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.002 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.002 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fcaE7BMUoc8u for ; Thu, 10 Sep 2015 14:40:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from na01-by2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-by2on0117.outbound.protection.outlook.com [207.46.100.117]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 650A21B35F8 for ; Thu, 10 Sep 2015 14:40:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=selector1; h=From:To:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version; bh=gfQ2XEtcFevDp6LDDOq3+RvmdPNHKyzsesRvG8TmOyY=; b=iU2BGrKVlRZJu+EeGu0wJCzESOwChpxGdNO5nXu/gIBxopxGB68qr7FNc3PskeMbTc0udGQesDorIFPQClOek4farAuyC51cp6Rcq5jwE+1vAbL9K2kbtKlp8eyBEK3b7IOfYkFihT8Jl/C9eVBHUX+upW3NQCGmm8BL1En1uIE= Received: from BY2PR0301MB0647.namprd03.prod.outlook.com (10.160.63.14) by BY2PR0301MB0647.namprd03.prod.outlook.com (10.160.63.14) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.262.15; Thu, 10 Sep 2015 21:40:06 +0000 Received: from BY2PR0301MB0647.namprd03.prod.outlook.com ([10.160.63.14]) by BY2PR0301MB0647.namprd03.prod.outlook.com ([10.160.63.14]) with mapi id 15.01.0262.011; Thu, 10 Sep 2015 21:40:06 +0000 From: Brian Raymor To: Martin Thomson Thread-Topic: [Webpush] Call for Adoption : encryption draft as a WG item Thread-Index: AQHQ6r2/Dkkby4y8EEC9nyExFtRU6540vtQggAA3C4CAATW1cA== Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2015 21:40:05 +0000 Message-ID: References: <93A7701A-A14E-4CBD-8B4A-D3718DA86935@ntt-at.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=Brian.Raymor@microsoft.com; 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DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:BY2PR0301MB0647; H:BY2PR0301MB0647.namprd03.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1; LANG:en; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: microsoft.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:23 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: microsoft.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 10 Sep 2015 21:40:05.9737 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 72f988bf-86f1-41af-91ab-2d7cd011db47 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BY2PR0301MB0647 Archived-At: Cc: Shida Schubert , "webpush@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Webpush] Call for Adoption : encryption draft as a WG item X-BeenThere: webpush@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of potential IETF work on a web push protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2015 21:40:09 -0000 DQpPbiA5IFNlcHRlbWJlciAyMDE1IGF0IDE4OjEyLCBNYXJ0aW4gVGhvbXNvbiA8bWFydGluLnRo b21zb25AZ21haWwuY29tPiB3cm90ZToNCg0KPiBPbiA5IFNlcHRlbWJlciAyMDE1IGF0IDE2OjU1 LCBCcmlhbiBSYXltb3IgPEJyaWFuLlJheW1vckBtaWNyb3NvZnQuY29tPiB3cm90ZToNCj4+IFNp bmNlIGRyYWZ0LXRob21zb24td2VicHVzaC1lbmNyeXB0aW9uLTAxIGlzIGRlcGVuZGVudCBvbiBk cmFmdC10aG9tc29uLWh0dHAtZW5jcnlwdGlvbi0wMSwgaXMgdGhlIGludGVudCB0byBsaWFpc29u IHdpdGggSFRUUGJpcyBhdCBJRVRGIDk0IGFuZCByZXF1ZXN0IGEgbWVjaGFuaXNtIGZvciBlbmNy eXB0ZWQgY29udGVudC1lbmNvZGluZz8gVGhpcyB3b3VsZCBiZSBzaW1pbGFyIHRvIHRoZSByZXF1 ZXN0IGZyb20gSFRUUGJpcyB0byBUTFMgdG8gYWRkcmVzcyBuZXh0IHByb3RvY29sIG5lZ290aWF0 aW9uIGF0IElFVEYgODUgKFNsaWRlIDcpIC0gaHR0cDovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9wcm9jZWVkaW5n cy84NS9zbGlkZXMvc2xpZGVzLTg1LXRscy0xLnBkZi4NCg0KPkkgdGhpbmsgdGhhdCB3b3VsZCBi ZSBiZXN0LCB0aG91Z2ggSSdkIHN1Z2dlc3QgdGhhdCBvdXIgYXJlYSBkaXJlY3RvcnMgYXJlIHRo ZSBiZXN0IHBlb3BsZSB0byBjb25zdWx0IG9uIHRoZSBkaXN0cmlidXRpb24gb2Ygd29yay4gIEFz IGl0IHdhcyB3aXRoIEFMUE4sIHdlIGdpdmUgdXAgY2hhbmdlIGNvbnRyb2wgd2hlbiB0aGF0IGhh cHBlbnMgYW5kIHdvdWxkIGhhdmUgdG8gcmVzcGVjdCB0aGUgZGVjaXNpb25zIG1hZGUgd2l0aCBy ZXNwZWN0IHRvIHRoYXQgd29yayBhcyBpdCBldm9sdmVzLg0KDQpUaGVuLCBJJ2QgcHJlZmVyIHRv IGtlZXAgZW5jcnlwdGlvbiBhcyBhbiBvcHRpb25hbCBmZWF0dXJlIGluIGEgc2VwYXJhdGUgZHJh ZnQgZnJvbSB0aGUgY29yZSBwcm90b2NvbCB1bnRpbCB0aGVyZSBpcyBtb3JlIGNsYXJpdHkuIEhh dmUgZXhpc3Rpbmcgc29sdXRpb25zIGFsc28gYmVlbiBjb21wbGV0ZWx5IHJ1bGVkIG91dD8gSSBk aWQgbWlzcyB0aGUgZWFybGllciBIVFRQYmlzIGRpc2N1c3Npb24gYXQgSUVURiA5MiBkdWUgdG8g c2NoZWR1bGUgY29uZmxpY3RzLiBUaGUgdG9uZS9kaXJlY3Rpb24gb2YgdGhlIGNvbnZlcnNhdGlv biBpcyBhIGJpdCBoYXJkIHRvIGFzc2VzcyBmcm9tIHRoZSBtaW51dGVzLg0KDQoNCi4uLkJyaWFu DQo= From nobody Thu Sep 10 15:13:05 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: webpush@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: webpush@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D9AD1A8A09 for ; Thu, 10 Sep 2015 15:13:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3NBBShB3Ppvy for ; Thu, 10 Sep 2015 15:13:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yk0-x234.google.com (mail-yk0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c07::234]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 130F71A010C for ; Thu, 10 Sep 2015 15:13:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by ykdt18 with SMTP id t18so53074971ykd.3 for ; Thu, 10 Sep 2015 15:13:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=y9JizZBX5L3MHdn5vsXzuOU+ddJsjDo1OUUbC3TJjf8=; b=dw2e3wk+j55phSSOqTrJ7vxQHmgA8WUXhOJsj20P8S8kj6F/bHwN73HoxqKQX/B11b NTFwsobrGl+ZLyCl+thtpqZ0Y1Yash0nv8irdndVuY13sEWnC8fhpfyY2c3xRdH+HkrF paxVWixYQKH2auvoW1P/ebQukBtRbFym9LyhyVQXBKf+9cVZ7uZQFDqv9t0HKT4HdQ8c Af4YJsQTyGiqhThCmeJBv6MmCaJZhos/v7qVfdKEa4MLXCjyQheM2WsVerGN5JkTCz+E dD85klY3Q093JmMe92thJb+fW+HkadthMyWSFgQyAu0mxhFNAMf28ACKsKedkWjhZqY6 0pcw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.129.51.88 with SMTP id z85mr51600138ywz.148.1441923183333; Thu, 10 Sep 2015 15:13:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.129.133.130 with HTTP; Thu, 10 Sep 2015 15:13:03 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <93A7701A-A14E-4CBD-8B4A-D3718DA86935@ntt-at.com> Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2015 15:13:03 -0700 Message-ID: From: Martin Thomson To: Brian Raymor Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: Cc: Shida Schubert , "webpush@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Webpush] Call for Adoption : encryption draft as a WG item X-BeenThere: webpush@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of potential IETF work on a web push protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2015 22:13:05 -0000 On 10 September 2015 at 14:40, Brian Raymor wrote: > Have existing solutions also been completely ruled out? What existing solutions do you refer to? I have no issue with this remaining separate, I thought that was the outcome of the discussion last meeting and the updated milestones corroborate that. From nobody Thu Sep 10 15:29:58 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: webpush@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: webpush@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3FB11B320A for ; Thu, 10 Sep 2015 15:29:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.002 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.002 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WCogDNTcnpz1 for ; Thu, 10 Sep 2015 15:29:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from na01-bl2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bl2on0137.outbound.protection.outlook.com [65.55.169.137]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AB32B1B2B82 for ; 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DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:BY2PR0301MB0648; H:BY2PR0301MB0647.namprd03.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:1; LANG:en; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: microsoft.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:23 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: microsoft.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 10 Sep 2015 22:29:52.0038 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 72f988bf-86f1-41af-91ab-2d7cd011db47 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BY2PR0301MB0648 Archived-At: Cc: Shida Schubert , "webpush@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Webpush] Call for Adoption : encryption draft as a WG item X-BeenThere: webpush@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of potential IETF work on a web push protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2015 22:29:56 -0000 DQpPbiAxMCBTZXB0ZW1iZXIgMjAxNSBhdCAzOjEzLCBNYXJ0aW4gVGhvbXNvbiA8bWFydGluLnRo b21zb25AZ21haWwuY29tPiB3cm90ZToNCj5PbiAxMCBTZXB0ZW1iZXIgMjAxNSBhdCAxNDo0MCwg QnJpYW4gUmF5bW9yIDxCcmlhbi5SYXltb3JAbWljcm9zb2Z0LmNvbT4gd3JvdGU6DQo+PiBIYXZl IGV4aXN0aW5nIHNvbHV0aW9ucyBhbHNvIGJlZW4gY29tcGxldGVseSBydWxlZCBvdXQ/DQoNCj5X aGF0IGV4aXN0aW5nIHNvbHV0aW9ucyBkbyB5b3UgcmVmZXIgdG8/DQoNCkFnYWluLCB0aGUgSUVU RiA5MiBtaW51dGVzIGFyZSBhbWJpZ3VvdXMgKHBlcmhhcHMgSSBzaG91bGQgbGlzdGVuIHRvIHRo ZSBhdWRpbyksIGJ1dCBpdCBzZWVtZWQgbGlrZSB0aGVyZSB3YXMgZmVlZGJhY2sgZnJvbSB0aGUg YXVkaWVuY2Ugb2YgIHRoZSAiV2hhdCBub3QgWCIgc29ydD8gSXMgdGhlcmUgY29uc2Vuc3VzIGlu IGh0dHBiaXMgZm9yIHRoaXMgYXBwcm9hY2ggbm93PyANCg0KaHR0cHM6Ly9naXRodWIuY29tL2h0 dHB3Zy93Zy1tYXRlcmlhbHMvYmxvYi9naC1wYWdlcy9pZXRmOTIvbWludXRlcy5tZA0KDQplbmNy eXB0ZWQgY29udGVudC1lbmNvZGluZyBmb3IgaHR0cA0KbW5vdDogd29ya2luZyBvbiB0aGlzIHcv TVQNCg0KbXQ6IGNvdXBsIHVzZSBjYXNlczogd2VicHVzaCwgbmVlZCB0byBwdXNoIHN0dWZmIHRo cnUgaW50ZXJtZWRpYXJ5LCBlbmNyeXB0IGRvYyBvbiBzZXJ2ZXINCg0KbXQ6IFRoaXMgaXMganVz dCBhIHNpbXBsZSBjdXQgZG93biB2ZXJzaW9uIG9mIHRscyByZWNvcmQgbGF5ZXIgYW5kIHNvbWUg a2V5IG1nbXQNCg0KbXQ6IHRoZXJlJ3Mgc29tZSBpbXBscyAtLSBwcmV0dHkgaW50ZXJlc3RlZCBp biBnZXR0aW5nIHRoaXMgZ29pbmcNCg0KbXQ6IHVzaW5nIGpvc2UgZGlkbid0IHdvcmsgaW4gaHR0 cCBzZW1hbnRpY3MuIGVnIGEgbXNnIGJlaW5nIHByb2Nlc3NlZCBjb250aW51b3VzbHkgcmF0aGVy IHRoYW4gYSBzaW5nbGUgYmxvYg0KDQptdDogbm8gb3B0aW9uYWxpdHkgaW4gdGhlIGZvcm1hdCAt LSBzaW1wbGUNCg0KbXQ6IHdpbGwgZW5nYWdlIHcvc2VjIGZvbGsNCg0KbG06IHRoZXJlJ3MgZGVz aXJlIGFmb290IHRvIHNlY3VyZSBodHRwIGhlYWRlcnMgYW5kIG9wdGlvbmFsbHkgYm9keSBhbmQg c28gLi4uLg0KDQpwaDogd2h5IHdvbnQgQ01TIHcvc21pbWUgZWcgc21pbWUgMyBub3Qgd29yaz8g cGxzIGVuZ2FnZSBzbWltZSBsaXN0DQoNCm1ub3Q6IHNvIHRoaXMgc3BlYyBpcyBhbiBmeWkgYXQg dGhpcyBwb2ludA0K From nobody Thu Sep 10 15:45:01 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: webpush@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: webpush@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 298381B2B9B for ; Thu, 10 Sep 2015 15:45:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2I8Z0u2q7V2N for ; Thu, 10 Sep 2015 15:44:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yk0-x22c.google.com (mail-yk0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c07::22c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5CB401B3B17 for ; Thu, 10 Sep 2015 15:44:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by ykei199 with SMTP id i199so73990520yke.0 for ; Thu, 10 Sep 2015 15:44:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=LekDYfMpU4rKt938DuxSCfygasGCOX2LKjSUs4M03HE=; b=1DhB/pbvB4AheCDWkywvZvpraqDva0xTG9MzLYjl1iV9nmfIS2xtyLjPZliub4VPTC nDqIFjW46X0Nw5BYJOBLmY2vKyxMDXW2qeU6W8zefhuedZM+ua1EXL131sFuvbb1JABV 5KgU9GLMZHCAdRcZgQx9695BaF1pp/NpZxgwj50EZC3rJVKr92eA1vPF7bYag1QgLavV Erzygp+N54D4OfTAp+3NBSaW+aVih/De/c/QObdJj4RQ6594YyLBYONgDRM+LNO0mgun wVp/0OPtXuIza1rqPtVS2OcnwkrFLpka0swH4Z7d9P0jJhPgMFoNPRbniqkxXNBQ9XN8 czlw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.13.206.67 with SMTP id q64mr51758769ywd.154.1441925097598; Thu, 10 Sep 2015 15:44:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.129.133.130 with HTTP; Thu, 10 Sep 2015 15:44:57 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <93A7701A-A14E-4CBD-8B4A-D3718DA86935@ntt-at.com> Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2015 15:44:57 -0700 Message-ID: From: Martin Thomson To: Brian Raymor Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: Cc: Shida Schubert , "webpush@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Webpush] Call for Adoption : encryption draft as a WG item X-BeenThere: webpush@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of potential IETF work on a web push protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2015 22:45:00 -0000 On 10 September 2015 at 15:29, Brian Raymor wrote: > ph: why wont CMS w/smime eg smime 3 not work? pls engage smime list This happened. I didn't get any strong signals of support, but I didn't get anyone telling me that it was wrong when I explained why I couldn't use CMS. From nobody Fri Sep 11 07:16:25 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: webpush@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: webpush@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C8D31B40D5 for ; Fri, 11 Sep 2015 07:16:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.602 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.602 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GVlfFasoAFlp for ; Fri, 11 Sep 2015 07:16:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mxout-08.mxes.net (mxout-08.mxes.net [216.86.168.183]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D9EDF1B3A7D for ; Fri, 11 Sep 2015 07:16:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.50.190] (unknown [72.11.211.243]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.mxes.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4EE17509C0; Fri, 11 Sep 2015 10:16:16 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.2 \(2104\)) From: Mark Nottingham In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2015 10:16:15 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <4EEA4359-3E21-4DFA-A539-5F26E26ED022@mnot.net> References: <93A7701A-A14E-4CBD-8B4A-D3718DA86935@ntt-at.com> To: Brian Raymor X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.2104) Archived-At: Cc: Shida Schubert , Martin Thomson , "webpush@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Webpush] Call for Adoption : encryption draft as a WG item X-BeenThere: webpush@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of potential IETF work on a web push protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2015 14:16:24 -0000 Brian et al, FWIW - I'm considering doing a Call for Adoption on that draft in the = not-too-distant future, but haven't talked to Barry about it yet.=20 That said, one of the factors that will help make that determination is = this WG having a dependency on the work. Cheers, > On 10 Sep 2015, at 5:40 pm, Brian Raymor = wrote: >=20 >=20 > On 9 September 2015 at 18:12, Martin Thomson = wrote: >=20 >> On 9 September 2015 at 16:55, Brian Raymor = wrote: >>> Since draft-thomson-webpush-encryption-01 is dependent on = draft-thomson-http-encryption-01, is the intent to liaison with HTTPbis = at IETF 94 and request a mechanism for encrypted content-encoding? This = would be similar to the request from HTTPbis to TLS to address next = protocol negotiation at IETF 85 (Slide 7) - = http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/85/slides/slides-85-tls-1.pdf. >=20 >> I think that would be best, though I'd suggest that our area = directors are the best people to consult on the distribution of work. = As it was with ALPN, we give up change control when that happens and = would have to respect the decisions made with respect to that work as it = evolves. >=20 > Then, I'd prefer to keep encryption as an optional feature in a = separate draft from the core protocol until there is more clarity. Have = existing solutions also been completely ruled out? I did miss the = earlier HTTPbis discussion at IETF 92 due to schedule conflicts. The = tone/direction of the conversation is a bit hard to assess from the = minutes. >=20 >=20 > ...Brian > _______________________________________________ > Webpush mailing list > Webpush@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/webpush -- Mark Nottingham https://www.mnot.net/