
From tim.moses@entrust.com  Fri Nov 15 05:42:35 2013
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From: Tim Moses <tim.moses@entrust.com>
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Colleagues - The minutes and other materials related to last week's  meetin=
g in Vancouver are here.

http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/88/wpkops.html

All the best.  Tim.

--_000_5B68A271B9C97046963CB6A5B8D6F62C7D2A3417SOTTEXCH11corpa_
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Colleagues &#8211; The minutes and other materials r=
elated to last week&#8217;s &nbsp;meeting in Vancouver are here.<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/88/wpkops=
.html">http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/88/wpkops.html</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">All the best.&nbsp; Tim.<o:p></o:p></p>
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From: t.petch <ietfc@btconnect.com>
To: Tim Moses <tim.moses@entrust.com>, <wpkops@ietf.org>
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The minutes seem to have lost the concept of the new-line, which renders
them so hard to read as to be almost unreadable.  Other WG minutes from
IETF88 do not suffer from this problem.

My browser is Internet Explorer.

Curiously, if I view the page's source with Notepad, they are
understandable - usually, it is the other way round.

Tom Petch


----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Moses" <tim.moses@entrust.com>
To: <wpkops@ietf.org>
Sent: Friday, November 15, 2013 1:42 PM

Colleagues - The minutes and other materials related to last week's
meeting in Vancouver are here.

http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/88/wpkops.html

All the best.  Tim.



------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------


> _______________________________________________
> wpkops mailing list
> wpkops@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/wpkops
>



From tim.moses@entrust.com  Tue Nov 19 06:03:05 2013
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From: Tim Moses <tim.moses@entrust.com>
To: t.petch <ietfc@btconnect.com>
Thread-Topic: [wpkops] Meeting materials
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Tom - It's heart-warming to know that someone read (or at least tried to re=
ad) the minutes.

I have revised the file and tested it with your favourite reader.  Let me k=
now if you still have a problem.

All the best.  Tim.

-----Original Message-----
From: t.petch [mailto:ietfc@btconnect.com]=20
Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2013 5:37 AM
To: Tim Moses; wpkops@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [wpkops] Meeting materials

The minutes seem to have lost the concept of the new-line, which renders th=
em so hard to read as to be almost unreadable.  Other WG minutes from
IETF88 do not suffer from this problem.

My browser is Internet Explorer.

Curiously, if I view the page's source with Notepad, they are understandabl=
e - usually, it is the other way round.

Tom Petch


----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Moses" <tim.moses@entrust.com>
To: <wpkops@ietf.org>
Sent: Friday, November 15, 2013 1:42 PM

Colleagues - The minutes and other materials related to last week's meeting=
 in Vancouver are here.

http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/88/wpkops.html

All the best.  Tim.



------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------


> _______________________________________________
> wpkops mailing list
> wpkops@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/wpkops
>



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From: t.petch <ietfc@btconnect.com>
To: Tim Moses <tim.moses@entrust.com>
References: <5B68A271B9C97046963CB6A5B8D6F62C7D2A3417@SOTTEXCH11.corp.ad.entrust.com> <02a301cee513$59737040$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> <5B68A271B9C97046963CB6A5B8D6F62C7D2A4EA8@SOTTEXCH11.corp.ad.entrust.com>
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Beautiful.

One thought is - what are the four documents?  The minutes do not say
and I do not see that clearly in the charter unless it is
 - current server behaviour
 - current browser behaviour
 - historic server behaviour
 - historic browser behaviour
(which is not where I think that I would start).

Tom Petch

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Moses" <tim.moses@entrust.com>
To: "t.petch" <ietfc@btconnect.com>
Cc: <wpkops@ietf.org>
Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2013 2:02 PM

Tom - It's heart-warming to know that someone read (or at least tried to
read) the minutes.

I have revised the file and tested it with your favourite reader.  Let
me know if you still have a problem.

All the best.  Tim.

-----Original Message-----
From: t.petch [mailto:ietfc@btconnect.com]
Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2013 5:37 AM
To: Tim Moses; wpkops@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [wpkops] Meeting materials

The minutes seem to have lost the concept of the new-line, which renders
them so hard to read as to be almost unreadable.  Other WG minutes from
IETF88 do not suffer from this problem.

My browser is Internet Explorer.

Curiously, if I view the page's source with Notepad, they are
understandable - usually, it is the other way round.

Tom Petch


----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Moses" <tim.moses@entrust.com>
To: <wpkops@ietf.org>
Sent: Friday, November 15, 2013 1:42 PM

Colleagues - The minutes and other materials related to last week's
meeting in Vancouver are here.

http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/88/wpkops.html

All the best.  Tim.





From tim.moses@entrust.com  Tue Nov 19 10:34:10 2013
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From: Tim Moses <tim.moses@entrust.com>
To: t.petch <ietfc@btconnect.com>
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Subject: Re: [wpkops] Meeting materials
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Tom - The four documents are:

- The trust model;
- The contents and processing of fields and extensions;
- The processing of revocation schemes;
- How the TLS stack deals with PKI.

All the best.  Tim.

-----Original Message-----
From: t.petch [mailto:ietfc@btconnect.com]=20
Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2013 1:03 PM
To: Tim Moses
Cc: wpkops@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [wpkops] Meeting materials

Beautiful.

One thought is - what are the four documents?  The minutes do not say and I=
 do not see that clearly in the charter unless it is
 - current server behaviour
 - current browser behaviour
 - historic server behaviour
 - historic browser behaviour
(which is not where I think that I would start).

Tom Petch

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Moses" <tim.moses@entrust.com>
To: "t.petch" <ietfc@btconnect.com>
Cc: <wpkops@ietf.org>
Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2013 2:02 PM

Tom - It's heart-warming to know that someone read (or at least tried to
read) the minutes.

I have revised the file and tested it with your favourite reader.  Let me k=
now if you still have a problem.

All the best.  Tim.

-----Original Message-----
From: t.petch [mailto:ietfc@btconnect.com]
Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2013 5:37 AM
To: Tim Moses; wpkops@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [wpkops] Meeting materials

The minutes seem to have lost the concept of the new-line, which renders th=
em so hard to read as to be almost unreadable.  Other WG minutes from
IETF88 do not suffer from this problem.

My browser is Internet Explorer.

Curiously, if I view the page's source with Notepad, they are understandabl=
e - usually, it is the other way round.

Tom Petch


----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Moses" <tim.moses@entrust.com>
To: <wpkops@ietf.org>
Sent: Friday, November 15, 2013 1:42 PM

Colleagues - The minutes and other materials related to last week's meeting=
 in Vancouver are here.

http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/88/wpkops.html

All the best.  Tim.





From tim.moses@entrust.com  Tue Nov 26 09:40:33 2013
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From: Tim Moses <tim.moses@entrust.com>
To: "wpkops@ietf.org" <wpkops@ietf.org>
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Colleagues - The working group document authors met today by teleconference=
.  The main point of discussion was the plan to survey vendors concerning t=
he behaviour of their Web products as it relates to PKI.

Rick Andrews of Symantec has graciously agreed to coordinate the compilatio=
n of survey questions and to interact with vendors.  He will circulate an i=
nitial set of questions upon which to comment in the near future.

We also discussed the timetable for completion of the project.  While we ha=
ve missed two interim deadlines, it is our intention to hold to the end-dat=
es.  We do not, however, intend to modify the charter to reflect the revise=
d interim milestone dates at this point.

So, look out for a message from Rick containing his proposal for survey que=
stions and give him your thoughtful feedback

Thanks a lot.  All the best.  Tim.

--_000_5B68A271B9C97046963CB6A5B8D6F62C7D2A8A1ESOTTEXCH11corpa_
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Colleagues &#8211; The working group document author=
s met today by teleconference.&nbsp; The main point of discussion was the p=
lan to survey vendors concerning the behaviour of their Web products as it =
relates to PKI.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Rick Andrews of Symantec has graciously agreed to co=
ordinate the compilation of survey questions and to interact with vendors.&=
nbsp; He will circulate an initial set of questions upon which to comment i=
n the near future.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">We also discussed the timetable for completion of th=
e project.&nbsp; While we have missed two interim deadlines, it is our inte=
ntion to hold to the end-dates.&nbsp; We do not, however, intend to modify =
the charter to reflect the revised interim milestone
 dates at this point.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">So, look out for a message from Rick containing his =
proposal for survey questions and give him your thoughtful feedback<o:p></o=
:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks a lot.&nbsp; All the best.&nbsp; Tim.<o:p></o=
:p></p>
</div>
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From Rick_Andrews@symantec.com  Tue Nov 26 15:46:13 2013
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From: Rick Andrews <Rick_Andrews@symantec.com>
To: "wpkops@ietf.org" <wpkops@ietf.org>
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2013 15:46:05 -0800
Thread-Topic: OCSP Responder Vendors
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Subject: [wpkops] OCSP Responder Vendors
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Folks,

I'm thinking we should also send the survey to vendors of OCSP Responder so=
ftware. I know of CoreStreet, and I've heard tell of others, but I don't kn=
ow who they are.
-       Do you think we should include such companies?
-       If yes, should we create a separate section in the questionnaire fo=
r them?
-       If yes, do you know of other candidate companies, and maybe a conta=
ct point for each of them?

Thanks,

-Rick


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<div>Folks,</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>I&#8217;m thinking we should also send the survey to vendors of OCSP R=
esponder software. I know of CoreStreet, and I&#8217;ve heard tell of other=
s, but I don&#8217;t know who they are.</div>
<ul style=3D"margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 36pt; ">
<li>Do you think we should include such companies?</li><li>If yes, should w=
e create a separate section in the questionnaire for them?</li><li>If yes, =
do you know of other candidate companies, and maybe a contact point for eac=
h of them?</li></ul>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>-Rick</div>
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From Rick_Andrews@symantec.com  Tue Nov 26 16:27:20 2013
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From: Rick Andrews <Rick_Andrews@symantec.com>
To: "wpkops@ietf.org" <wpkops@ietf.org>
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2013 16:27:14 -0800
Thread-Topic: Early draft of vendor questionnaire
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Subject: [wpkops] Early draft of vendor questionnaire
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Folks,

Here's a very early draft, started by Tim with updates from David and me. I=
've turned on Track Changes; please feel free to add edits and comments.

I'm sure there's many more questions we can ask. Please pile 'em on.

-Rick




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<div>Folks,</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>Here&#8217;s a very early draft, started by Tim with updates from Davi=
d and me. I&#8217;ve turned on Track Changes; please feel free to add edits=
 and comments.</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>I&#8217;m sure there&#8217;s many more questions we can ask. Please pi=
le &#8216;em on.</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>-Rick</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div> </div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
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Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2013 09:27:31 +0100
From: i-barreira@izenpe.net
To: Rick_Andrews@symantec.com, wpkops@ietf.org
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Subject: Re: [wpkops] OCSP Responder Vendors
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1.- If we can find a list of all OCSP responders, perfect

2.- yes

3.- we use Safelayer Keyone products for CA, VA and TSA. The web is =
www.safelayer.com

=20

=20

=20

I=F1igo Barreira
Responsable del =C1rea t=E9cnica
i-barreira@izenpe.net <mailto:i-barreira@izenpe.net>=20

945067705

=20

=20

ERNE! Baliteke mezu honen zatiren bat edo mezu osoa legez babestuta =
egotea. Mezua badu bere hartzailea. Okerreko helbidera heldu bada =
(helbidea gaizki idatzi, transmisioak huts egin) eman abisu igorleari, =
korreo honi erantzuna. KONTUZ!
ATENCION! Este mensaje contiene informacion privilegiada o confidencial =
a la que solo tiene derecho a acceder el destinatario. Si usted lo =
recibe por error le agradeceriamos que no hiciera uso de la informacion =
y que se pusiese en contacto con el remitente.

=20

De: wpkops [mailto:wpkops-bounces@ietf.org] En nombre de Rick Andrews
Enviado el: mi=E9rcoles, 27 de noviembre de 2013 0:46
Para: wpkops@ietf.org
Asunto: [wpkops] OCSP Responder Vendors

=20

Folks,

=20

I'm thinking we should also send the survey to vendors of OCSP Responder =
software. I know of CoreStreet, and I've heard tell of others, but I =
don't know who they are.

*	Do you think we should include such companies?
*	If yes, should we create a separate section in the questionnaire for =
them?
*	If yes, do you know of other candidate companies, and maybe a contact =
point for each of them?

=20

Thanks,

=20

-Rick

=20


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lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>1.- If we can find a list of all OCSP responders, =
perfect<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>2.- yes<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>3.- we use Safelayer Keyone products for CA, VA and TSA. The web is =
<a =
href=3D"http://www.safelayer.com">www.safelayer.com</a><o:p></o:p></span>=
</p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'line-height:9.75pt'><b><span lang=3DES-TRAD =
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>I=
=F1igo Barreira</span></b><span lang=3DES-TRAD =
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'><=
br>Responsable del =C1rea t=E9cnica<br><a =
href=3D"mailto:i-barreira@izenpe.net"><span =
style=3D'color:blue'>i-barreira@izenpe.net</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></=
p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DES-TRAD =
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>9=
45067705</span><span lang=3DES-TRAD =
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D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DES-TRAD =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><img border=3D0 width=3D585 height=3D111 id=3D"Imagen_x0020_1" =
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cid:image001.png@01CE3152.B4804EB0"></span><span lang=3DES-TRAD =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'line-height:9.75pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#888888;=
mso-fareast-language:ES-TRAD'>ERNE! Baliteke mezu honen zatiren bat edo =
mezu osoa legez babestuta egotea. Mezua badu bere hartzailea. Okerreko =
helbidera heldu bada (helbidea gaizki idatzi, transmisioak huts egin) =
eman abisu igorleari, korreo honi erantzuna. KONTUZ!</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#88888=
8;mso-fareast-language:ES-TRAD'><br></span><span =
style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#888888;=
mso-fareast-language:ES-TRAD'>ATENCION! Este mensaje contiene =
informacion privilegiada o confidencial a la que solo tiene derecho a =
acceder el destinatario. Si usted lo recibe por error le agradeceriamos =
que no hiciera uso de la informacion y que se pusiese en contacto con el =
remitente.</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:navy;mso-fareast-langua=
ge:ES-TRAD'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>De:</span></=
b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
wpkops [mailto:wpkops-bounces@ietf.org] <b>En nombre de </b>Rick =
Andrews<br><b>Enviado el:</b> mi=E9rcoles, 27 de noviembre de 2013 =
0:46<br><b>Para:</b> wpkops@ietf.org<br><b>Asunto:</b> [wpkops] OCSP =
Responder Vendors<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Folks,<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>I&#8217;m =
thinking we should also send the survey to vendors of OCSP Responder =
software. I know of CoreStreet, and I&#8217;ve heard tell of others, but =
I don&#8217;t know who they are.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><ul =
type=3Ddisc><li class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 =
level1 lfo1'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Do you =
think we should include such companies?<o:p></o:p></span></li><li =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 =
level1 lfo1'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>If yes, =
should we create a separate section in the questionnaire for =
them?<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 =
level1 lfo1'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>If yes, do =
you know of other candidate companies, and maybe a contact point for =
each of them?<o:p></o:p></span></li></ul><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Thanks,<o:p=
></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>-Rick<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p></div></div></body></html>=

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--Boundary_(ID_EG8b60yGb6dBQMjB7PIQqg)--


From rob.stradling@comodo.com  Wed Nov 27 02:07:33 2013
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Subject: Re: [wpkops] OCSP Responder Vendors
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On 26/11/13 23:46, Rick Andrews wrote:
> Folks,
> I’m thinking we should also send the survey to vendors of OCSP Responder
> software. I know of CoreStreet, and I’ve heard tell of others, but I
> don’t know who they are.

Hi Rick.  Some CAs have written their own OCSP Responder software 
in-house.  Since it's for their own use, they're not acting as 
"vendors", but nonetheless I'd say that the behaviour of this software 
is of just as much interest as the behaviour of, say, Corestreet's software.

Perhaps we need to send the survey to every publicly-trusted CA!

-- 
Rob Stradling
Senior Research & Development Scientist
COMODO - Creating Trust Online


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Complicated:-(  Perhaps there is a danger of losing the wood for the
trees.

Thus, I think of TLS in terms of cipher suites and think that software
vendors would too; the mix and match approach of algorithms in 2) (where
is RC4 or AEAD or AES-GCM?) seems likely to produce the wrong answers.

I also think of TLS in terms of versions, of which there are two values
that appear separately in setting up a TLS connection, and many software
vendors would appear not to understand what the specification says in
that regard and so are in breach of it.  Fallback attacks derived
therefrom are a significant part of using TLS.

And then there is Key Usage; some check, other do not.

And the hot topic of three years ago was Renego and support for it;
still significant today.  Links into fallback attacks.

While a running sore is where does the software get its identifier from;
this document keeps talking of DN (I wonder how common that is).
RFC6125 should probably be in there somewhere.

And the treatment of user certs (I know what Microsoft does and it is
very sensible but suspect that it is unique).

etc etc

Tom Petch

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Andrews" <Rick_Andrews@symantec.com>
To: <wpkops@ietf.org>
Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2013 12:27 AM

Folks,

Here's a very early draft, started by Tim with updates from David and
me. I've turned on Track Changes; please feel free to add edits and
comments.

I'm sure there's many more questions we can ask. Please pile 'em on.

-Rick






------------------------------------------------------------------------
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From tim.moses@entrust.com  Wed Nov 27 05:20:21 2013
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From: Tim Moses <tim.moses@entrust.com>
To: t.petch <ietfc@btconnect.com>
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Cc: "wpkops@ietf.org" <wpkops@ietf.org>, Rick Andrews <Rick_Andrews@symantec.com>
Subject: Re: [wpkops] Early draft of vendor questionnaire
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Tom.  These are good points.  They relate more to the TLS stack than the PK=
I.  But, they are relevant for all that.

Can you provide specific questions?

All the best. Tim.

> On Nov 27, 2013, at 6:09 AM, "t.petch" <ietfc@btconnect.com> wrote:
>=20
> Complicated:-(  Perhaps there is a danger of losing the wood for the
> trees.
>=20
> Thus, I think of TLS in terms of cipher suites and think that software
> vendors would too; the mix and match approach of algorithms in 2) (where
> is RC4 or AEAD or AES-GCM?) seems likely to produce the wrong answers.
>=20
> I also think of TLS in terms of versions, of which there are two values
> that appear separately in setting up a TLS connection, and many software
> vendors would appear not to understand what the specification says in
> that regard and so are in breach of it.  Fallback attacks derived
> therefrom are a significant part of using TLS.
>=20
> And then there is Key Usage; some check, other do not.
>=20
> And the hot topic of three years ago was Renego and support for it;
> still significant today.  Links into fallback attacks.
>=20
> While a running sore is where does the software get its identifier from;
> this document keeps talking of DN (I wonder how common that is).
> RFC6125 should probably be in there somewhere.
>=20
> And the treatment of user certs (I know what Microsoft does and it is
> very sensible but suspect that it is unique).
>=20
> etc etc
>=20
> Tom Petch
>=20
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rick Andrews" <Rick_Andrews@symantec.com>
> To: <wpkops@ietf.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2013 12:27 AM
>=20
> Folks,
>=20
> Here's a very early draft, started by Tim with updates from David and
> me. I've turned on Track Changes; please feel free to add edits and
> comments.
>=20
> I'm sure there's many more questions we can ask. Please pile 'em on.
>=20
> -Rick
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --------
>=20
>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> wpkops mailing list
>> wpkops@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/wpkops
>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> wpkops mailing list
> wpkops@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/wpkops

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From: Tim Moses <tim.moses@entrust.com>
To: Rick Andrews <Rick_Andrews@symantec.com>
Thread-Topic: [wpkops] OCSP Responder Vendors
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How about Tumbleweed (inheritor of the Valicert legacy)?

All the best. Tim.

On Nov 26, 2013, at 10:16 PM, "Rick Andrews" <Rick_Andrews@symantec.com<mai=
lto:Rick_Andrews@symantec.com>> wrote:

Folks,

I=92m thinking we should also send the survey to vendors of OCSP Responder =
software. I know of CoreStreet, and I=92ve heard tell of others, but I don=
=92t know who they are.

  *   Do you think we should include such companies?
  *   If yes, should we create a separate section in the questionnaire for =
them?
  *   If yes, do you know of other candidate companies, and maybe a contact=
 point for each of them?


Thanks,

-Rick

_______________________________________________
wpkops mailing list
wpkops@ietf.org<mailto:wpkops@ietf.org>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/wpkops

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<div>How about Tumbleweed (inheritor of the Valicert legacy)?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>All the best. Tim.</div>
<div><br>
On Nov 26, 2013, at 10:16 PM, &quot;Rick Andrews&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailt=
o:Rick_Andrews@symantec.com">Rick_Andrews@symantec.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
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<div>Folks,</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>I=92m thinking we should also send the survey to vendors of OCSP Respo=
nder software. I know of CoreStreet, and I=92ve heard tell of others, but I=
 don=92t know who they are.</div>
<ul style=3D"margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 36pt; ">
<li>Do you think we should include such companies?</li><li>If yes, should w=
e create a separate section in the questionnaire for them?</li><li>If yes, =
do you know of other candidate companies, and maybe a contact point for eac=
h of them?</li></ul>
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<div>Thanks,</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>-Rick</div>
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From tim.moses@entrust.com  Wed Nov 27 05:27:32 2013
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From: Tim Moses <tim.moses@entrust.com>
To: Rob Stradling <rob.stradling@comodo.com>
Thread-Topic: [wpkops] OCSP Responder Vendors
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Subject: Re: [wpkops] OCSP Responder Vendors
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Hi Rob.  I would say "yes" to this if we thought it might uncover an issue =
that needed fixing.  Otherwise, we might just be creating a lot of extra wo=
rk for little benefit.

What do you think?  All the best. Tim.

> On Nov 27, 2013, at 5:08 AM, "Rob Stradling" <rob.stradling@comodo.com> w=
rote:
>=20
>> On 26/11/13 23:46, Rick Andrews wrote:
>> Folks,
>> I=92m thinking we should also send the survey to vendors of OCSP Respond=
er
>> software. I know of CoreStreet, and I=92ve heard tell of others, but I
>> don=92t know who they are.
>=20
> Hi Rick.  Some CAs have written their own OCSP Responder software in-hous=
e.  Since it's for their own use, they're not acting as "vendors", but none=
theless I'd say that the behaviour of this software is of just as much inte=
rest as the behaviour of, say, Corestreet's software.
>=20
> Perhaps we need to send the survey to every publicly-trusted CA!
>=20
> --=20
> Rob Stradling
> Senior Research & Development Scientist
> COMODO - Creating Trust Online
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> wpkops mailing list
> wpkops@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/wpkops

From bruce.morton@entrust.com  Wed Nov 27 05:42:22 2013
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From: Bruce Morton <bruce.morton@entrust.com>
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Now they are Axway.

From: wpkops [mailto:wpkops-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Tim Moses
Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2013 8:24 AM
To: Rick Andrews
Cc: wpkops@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [wpkops] OCSP Responder Vendors

How about Tumbleweed (inheritor of the Valicert legacy)?

All the best. Tim.

On Nov 26, 2013, at 10:16 PM, "Rick Andrews" <Rick_Andrews@symantec.com<mai=
lto:Rick_Andrews@symantec.com>> wrote:
Folks,

I'm thinking we should also send the survey to vendors of OCSP Responder so=
ftware. I know of CoreStreet, and I've heard tell of others, but I don't kn=
ow who they are.

  *   Do you think we should include such companies?
  *   If yes, should we create a separate section in the questionnaire for =
them?
  *   If yes, do you know of other candidate companies, and maybe a contact=
 point for each of them?

Thanks,

-Rick

_______________________________________________
wpkops mailing list
wpkops@ietf.org<mailto:wpkops@ietf.org>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/wpkops

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ol
	{margin-bottom:0in;}
ul
	{margin-bottom:0in;}
--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit">
<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
</head>
<body lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Now they are Axway.<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> wpkops [=
mailto:wpkops-bounces@ietf.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Tim Moses<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, November 27, 2013 8:24 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Rick Andrews<br>
<b>Cc:</b> wpkops@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [wpkops] OCSP Responder Vendors<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">How about Tumbleweed (inheritor of the Valicert lega=
cy)?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">All the best. Tim.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
On Nov 26, 2013, at 10:16 PM, &quot;Rick Andrews&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailt=
o:Rick_Andrews@symantec.com">Rick_Andrews@symantec.com</a>&gt; wrote:<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Folks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">I&#8217;m thinking we should also send =
the survey to vendors of OCSP Responder software. I know of CoreStreet, and=
 I&#8217;ve heard tell of others, but I don&#8217;t know who they are.<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<ul type=3D"disc">
<li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-=
alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;">Do you think we should include such companies?<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-=
bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;">If yes, should we create a separate section in the questionnai=
re for them?<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-mar=
gin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;">If yes, do you know of other candidate companies, and maybe a =
contact point for each of them?<o:p></o:p></span></li></ul>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">-Rick<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>
wpkops mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:wpkops@ietf.org">wpkops@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/wpkops">https://www.ietf.o=
rg/mailman/listinfo/wpkops</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_452C99D20750E74083DBA441FF9323857D5CB191SOTTEXCH11corpa_--

From rob.stradling@comodo.com  Wed Nov 27 06:30:25 2013
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Cc: "wpkops@ietf.org" <wpkops@ietf.org>, Rick Andrews <Rick_Andrews@symantec.com>
Subject: Re: [wpkops] OCSP Responder Vendors
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On 27/11/13 13:27, Tim Moses wrote:
> Hi Rob.  I would say "yes" to this if we thought it might uncover an issue that needed fixing.  Otherwise, we might just be creating a lot of extra work for little benefit.
>
> What do you think?  All the best. Tim.

I have no idea if this would uncover any issues that would need fixing.

But if we're going to scrutinize the commercial software, why wouldn't 
we also scrutinize the in-house software?

In-house software isn't any less likely to contain bugs just because it 
isn't sold commercially!

>> On Nov 27, 2013, at 5:08 AM, "Rob Stradling" <rob.stradling@comodo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 26/11/13 23:46, Rick Andrews wrote:
>>> Folks,
>>> I’m thinking we should also send the survey to vendors of OCSP Responder
>>> software. I know of CoreStreet, and I’ve heard tell of others, but I
>>> don’t know who they are.
>>
>> Hi Rick.  Some CAs have written their own OCSP Responder software in-house.  Since it's for their own use, they're not acting as "vendors", but nonetheless I'd say that the behaviour of this software is of just as much interest as the behaviour of, say, Corestreet's software.
>>
>> Perhaps we need to send the survey to every publicly-trusted CA!

-- 
Rob Stradling
Senior Research & Development Scientist
COMODO - Creating Trust Online


From tim.moses@entrust.com  Wed Nov 27 07:43:52 2013
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From: Tim Moses <tim.moses@entrust.com>
To: Rob Stradling <rob.stradling@comodo.com>
Thread-Topic: [wpkops] OCSP Responder Vendors
Thread-Index: Ac7rAawknudXLqFITcSxsvi9mOpI7AAgLNMA///kF+6AAGVXgP//wLD6
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2013 15:43:34 +0000
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Subject: Re: [wpkops] OCSP Responder Vendors
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Hi Rob. I can't argue with that.

But, isn't our focus more on design choices than implementation flaws?  Aft=
er all, IETF can help fix problems with protocol design and configuration, =
but there is less they can do about bugs.

Generally, I would be supportive of gathering more (rather than less) infor=
mation.  But, I am also acutely aware that we have to finish the project on=
 schedule, and we are reliant on the good will of busy people.

Having said all that, I don't object to sending the survey to all the CAs i=
n the usual trust anchor lists.  But, I wouldn't necessarily give high prio=
rity to chasing responses and analyzing them.

I'm also happy to defer to the group if this is generally viewed to be of h=
igher priority.

All the best.  Tim.

> On Nov 27, 2013, at 9:30 AM, "Rob Stradling" <rob.stradling@comodo.com> w=
rote:
>=20
>> On 27/11/13 13:27, Tim Moses wrote:
>> Hi Rob.  I would say "yes" to this if we thought it might uncover an iss=
ue that needed fixing.  Otherwise, we might just be creating a lot of extra=
 work for little benefit.
>>=20
>> What do you think?  All the best. Tim.
>=20
> I have no idea if this would uncover any issues that would need fixing.
>=20
> But if we're going to scrutinize the commercial software, why wouldn't we=
 also scrutinize the in-house software?
>=20
> In-house software isn't any less likely to contain bugs just because it i=
sn't sold commercially!
>=20
>>>> On Nov 27, 2013, at 5:08 AM, "Rob Stradling" <rob.stradling@comodo.com=
> wrote:
>>>>=20
>>>> On 26/11/13 23:46, Rick Andrews wrote:
>>>> Folks,
>>>> I=92m thinking we should also send the survey to vendors of OCSP Respo=
nder
>>>> software. I know of CoreStreet, and I=92ve heard tell of others, but I
>>>> don=92t know who they are.
>>>=20
>>> Hi Rick.  Some CAs have written their own OCSP Responder software in-ho=
use.  Since it's for their own use, they're not acting as "vendors", but no=
netheless I'd say that the behaviour of this software is of just as much in=
terest as the behaviour of, say, Corestreet's software.
>>>=20
>>> Perhaps we need to send the survey to every publicly-trusted CA!
>=20
> --=20
> Rob Stradling
> Senior Research & Development Scientist
> COMODO - Creating Trust Online
>=20

From d.w.chadwick@kent.ac.uk  Wed Nov 27 07:48:16 2013
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Since this is a survey to determine the current state of play, I think
it is sensible to survey all the OCSP services that exist, regardless of
who wrote the software

regards

David

On 27/11/2013 14:30, Rob Stradling wrote:
> On 27/11/13 13:27, Tim Moses wrote:
>> Hi Rob.  I would say "yes" to this if we thought it might uncover an
>> issue that needed fixing.  Otherwise, we might just be creating a lot
>> of extra work for little benefit.
>>
>> What do you think?  All the best. Tim.
> 
> I have no idea if this would uncover any issues that would need fixing.
> 
> But if we're going to scrutinize the commercial software, why wouldn't
> we also scrutinize the in-house software?
> 
> In-house software isn't any less likely to contain bugs just because it
> isn't sold commercially!
> 
>>> On Nov 27, 2013, at 5:08 AM, "Rob Stradling"
>>> <rob.stradling@comodo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 26/11/13 23:46, Rick Andrews wrote:
>>>> Folks,
>>>> I’m thinking we should also send the survey to vendors of OCSP
>>>> Responder
>>>> software. I know of CoreStreet, and I’ve heard tell of others, but I
>>>> don’t know who they are.
>>>
>>> Hi Rick.  Some CAs have written their own OCSP Responder software
>>> in-house.  Since it's for their own use, they're not acting as
>>> "vendors", but nonetheless I'd say that the behaviour of this
>>> software is of just as much interest as the behaviour of, say,
>>> Corestreet's software.
>>>
>>> Perhaps we need to send the survey to every publicly-trusted CA!
> 

From ietfc@btconnect.com  Wed Nov 27 10:27:42 2013
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To: Tim Moses <tim.moses@entrust.com>
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Subject: Re: [wpkops] Early draft of vendor questionnaire
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---- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Moses" <tim.moses@entrust.com>
To: "t.petch" <ietfc@btconnect.com>
Cc: "Rick Andrews" <Rick_Andrews@symantec.com>; <wpkops@ietf.org>
Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2013 1:20 PM
Subject: Re: [wpkops] Early draft of vendor questionnaire


Tom.  These are good points.  They relate more to the TLS stack than the
PKI.  But, they are relevant for all that.

Can you provide specific questions?

Tim

Yes, my thoughts have a TLS bias but that is what I got from reading the
document!

And I find the document quite large already and am reluctant to add more
to it without removing something.

I think that Server Q1 is inappropriate for two reasons.
1) Different versions of eg Windows Server have very different
capabilities and I would think it verging on the impossible to fill this
in for the different versions.  Rather, people should be invited to fill
in a separate questionnaire for each version.  And it is the vendor who
knows what makes sense as a version, thus, as I recall, Windows Vista is
the same as 2008R1, but 2008R2 is the same as 7 ie it is the underlying
SChannel that matters, not the terms that might be used in marketing.
2) Many, if not most organisations, will not disclose market share and
might stop and go no further - such data is often available but from
other sources such as Universities and large web sites, not from
vendors.

And a second substantial point is Server Q2 which I find misguided - yes
you want to know what is supported but I think that this should be in
terms of TLS ciphersuites - after all, Q8 does not ask what versions of
SSH are in use!

And my third substantial point is Server Q8 which I think fundamental,
and which should come earlier, perhaps second (assuming that the
emphasis on TLS is correct); and it is a complex question, it is really
about the negotiation that takes place to find a version acceptable to
client and server which in turn affects the available ciphersuites and
so on.  I am not sure how to rephrase this question and will think some
more.

Tom Petch

All the best. Tim.

> On Nov 27, 2013, at 6:09 AM, "t.petch" <ietfc@btconnect.com> wrote:
>
> Complicated:-(  Perhaps there is a danger of losing the wood for the
> trees.
>
> Thus, I think of TLS in terms of cipher suites and think that software
> vendors would too; the mix and match approach of algorithms in 2)
(where
> is RC4 or AEAD or AES-GCM?) seems likely to produce the wrong answers.
>
> I also think of TLS in terms of versions, of which there are two
values
> that appear separately in setting up a TLS connection, and many
software
> vendors would appear not to understand what the specification says in
> that regard and so are in breach of it.  Fallback attacks derived
> therefrom are a significant part of using TLS.
>
> And then there is Key Usage; some check, other do not.
>
> And the hot topic of three years ago was Renego and support for it;
> still significant today.  Links into fallback attacks.
>
> While a running sore is where does the software get its identifier
from;
> this document keeps talking of DN (I wonder how common that is).
> RFC6125 should probably be in there somewhere.
>
> And the treatment of user certs (I know what Microsoft does and it is
> very sensible but suspect that it is unique).
>
> etc etc
>
> Tom Petch
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rick Andrews" <Rick_Andrews@symantec.com>
> To: <wpkops@ietf.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2013 12:27 AM
>
> Folks,
>
> Here's a very early draft, started by Tim with updates from David and
> me. I've turned on Track Changes; please feel free to add edits and
> comments.
>
> I'm sure there's many more questions we can ask. Please pile 'em on.
>
> -Rick
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> --------
>
>
>> _______________________________________________
>> wpkops mailing list
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>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/wpkops
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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From rob.stradling@comodo.com  Thu Nov 28 02:59:45 2013
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Cc: "wpkops@ietf.org" <wpkops@ietf.org>, Ben Laurie <benl@google.com>, Rick Andrews <Rick_Andrews@symantec.com>
Subject: Re: [wpkops] OCSP Responder Vendors
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On 27/11/13 15:43, Tim Moses wrote:
> Hi Rob. I can't argue with that.
>
> But, isn't our focus more on design choices than implementation flaws?  After all, IETF can help fix problems with protocol design and configuration, but there is less they can do about bugs.
>
> Generally, I would be supportive of gathering more (rather than less) information.  But, I am also acutely aware that we have to finish the project on schedule, and we are reliant on the good will of busy people.
>
> Having said all that, I don't object to sending the survey to all the CAs in the usual trust anchor lists.

Hi Tim.  Google may soon conduct a survey of all the publicly-trusted 
CAs to find out what CA software and OCSP software each CA is using, in 
order to find out which CA/OCSP software will need to be updated to 
support various features of Certificate Transparency (RFC6962).

I asked Ben Laurie about this yesterday, and he said he might kick off a 
survey as early as next week.  (CC'ing Ben).

If Google do their survey first, then this will hopefully yield a full 
list of OCSP software authors for WPKOPS to survey.  :-)

> But, I wouldn't necessarily give high priority to chasing responses and analyzing them.
>
> I'm also happy to defer to the group if this is generally viewed to be of higher priority.
>
> All the best.  Tim.
>
>> On Nov 27, 2013, at 9:30 AM, "Rob Stradling" <rob.stradling@comodo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 27/11/13 13:27, Tim Moses wrote:
>>> Hi Rob.  I would say "yes" to this if we thought it might uncover an issue that needed fixing.  Otherwise, we might just be creating a lot of extra work for little benefit.
>>>
>>> What do you think?  All the best. Tim.
>>
>> I have no idea if this would uncover any issues that would need fixing.
>>
>> But if we're going to scrutinize the commercial software, why wouldn't we also scrutinize the in-house software?
>>
>> In-house software isn't any less likely to contain bugs just because it isn't sold commercially!
>>
>>>>> On Nov 27, 2013, at 5:08 AM, "Rob Stradling" <rob.stradling@comodo.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On 26/11/13 23:46, Rick Andrews wrote:
>>>>> Folks,
>>>>> I’m thinking we should also send the survey to vendors of OCSP Responder
>>>>> software. I know of CoreStreet, and I’ve heard tell of others, but I
>>>>> don’t know who they are.
>>>>
>>>> Hi Rick.  Some CAs have written their own OCSP Responder software in-house.  Since it's for their own use, they're not acting as "vendors", but nonetheless I'd say that the behaviour of this software is of just as much interest as the behaviour of, say, Corestreet's software.
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps we need to send the survey to every publicly-trusted CA!
>>
>> --
>> Rob Stradling
>> Senior Research & Development Scientist
>> COMODO - Creating Trust Online
>>
> _______________________________________________
> wpkops mailing list
> wpkops@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/wpkops
>

-- 
Rob Stradling
Senior Research & Development Scientist
COMODO - Creating Trust Online
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Office Fax: +44.(0)1274.730909
www.comodo.com

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From d.w.chadwick@kent.ac.uk  Thu Nov 28 05:41:53 2013
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Hi Rick

this is getting good now. However I think q6 is too complex

6)	Does the product allow for the configuration of multiple certificates
using different public key algorithms (RSA, DSA, ECC) but the same
Subject DN,

could be answered yes or no

 and deliver the most appropriate certificate to each client based on
the client’s capabilities as indicated in the ClientHello message?
could also be answered  yes or no

So what if a user has yes for the first half and no for the second half,
or vice versa?

Maybe best to split into two questions. Same goes for q7.

Other minor comments below:

Q8, Q14, and Q17a) and Q20b) and Q22a) add (tick all that apply)

Q9 d. other add Please specify.

Q17b. What answer are you looking for? If its the numbers 1 to 9 in the
order of support, then state this (in brackets).

Q20 c. and d. are a bit vague. What answers are you looking for?

regards

David

On 27/11/2013 00:27, Rick Andrews wrote:
> Folks,
>  
> Here’s a very early draft, started by Tim with updates from David and
> me. I’ve turned on Track Changes; please feel free to add edits and
> comments.
>  
> I’m sure there’s many more questions we can ask. Please pile ‘em on.
>  
> -Rick
>  
>  
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> wpkops mailing list
> wpkops@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/wpkops
> 

From tim.moses@entrust.com  Thu Nov 28 07:41:13 2013
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From: Tim Moses <tim.moses@entrust.com>
To: Rob Stradling <rob.stradling@comodo.com>
Thread-Topic: [wpkops] OCSP Responder Vendors
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That would be awesome.  Thanks for the "heads up". All the best. Tim.

> On Nov 28, 2013, at 5:59 AM, "Rob Stradling" <rob.stradling@comodo.com> w=
rote:
>=20
>> On 27/11/13 15:43, Tim Moses wrote:
>> Hi Rob. I can't argue with that.
>>=20
>> But, isn't our focus more on design choices than implementation flaws?  =
After all, IETF can help fix problems with protocol design and configuratio=
n, but there is less they can do about bugs.
>>=20
>> Generally, I would be supportive of gathering more (rather than less) in=
formation.  But, I am also acutely aware that we have to finish the project=
 on schedule, and we are reliant on the good will of busy people.
>>=20
>> Having said all that, I don't object to sending the survey to all the CA=
s in the usual trust anchor lists.
>=20
> Hi Tim.  Google may soon conduct a survey of all the publicly-trusted CAs=
 to find out what CA software and OCSP software each CA is using, in order =
to find out which CA/OCSP software will need to be updated to support vario=
us features of Certificate Transparency (RFC6962).
>=20
> I asked Ben Laurie about this yesterday, and he said he might kick off a =
survey as early as next week.  (CC'ing Ben).
>=20
> If Google do their survey first, then this will hopefully yield a full li=
st of OCSP software authors for WPKOPS to survey.  :-)
>=20
>> But, I wouldn't necessarily give high priority to chasing responses and =
analyzing them.
>>=20
>> I'm also happy to defer to the group if this is generally viewed to be o=
f higher priority.
>>=20
>> All the best.  Tim.
>>=20
>>>> On Nov 27, 2013, at 9:30 AM, "Rob Stradling" <rob.stradling@comodo.com=
> wrote:
>>>>=20
>>>> On 27/11/13 13:27, Tim Moses wrote:
>>>> Hi Rob.  I would say "yes" to this if we thought it might uncover an i=
ssue that needed fixing.  Otherwise, we might just be creating a lot of ext=
ra work for little benefit.
>>>>=20
>>>> What do you think?  All the best. Tim.
>>>=20
>>> I have no idea if this would uncover any issues that would need fixing.
>>>=20
>>> But if we're going to scrutinize the commercial software, why wouldn't =
we also scrutinize the in-house software?
>>>=20
>>> In-house software isn't any less likely to contain bugs just because it=
 isn't sold commercially!
>>>=20
>>>>>> On Nov 27, 2013, at 5:08 AM, "Rob Stradling" <rob.stradling@comodo.c=
om> wrote:
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> On 26/11/13 23:46, Rick Andrews wrote:
>>>>>> Folks,
>>>>>> I=92m thinking we should also send the survey to vendors of OCSP Res=
ponder
>>>>>> software. I know of CoreStreet, and I=92ve heard tell of others, but=
 I
>>>>>> don=92t know who they are.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Hi Rick.  Some CAs have written their own OCSP Responder software in-=
house.  Since it's for their own use, they're not acting as "vendors", but =
nonetheless I'd say that the behaviour of this software is of just as much =
interest as the behaviour of, say, Corestreet's software.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Perhaps we need to send the survey to every publicly-trusted CA!
>>>=20
>>> --
>>> Rob Stradling
>>> Senior Research & Development Scientist
>>> COMODO - Creating Trust Online
>> _______________________________________________
>> wpkops mailing list
>> wpkops@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/wpkops
>=20
> --=20
> Rob Stradling
> Senior Research & Development Scientist
> COMODO - Creating Trust Online
> Office Tel: +44.(0)1274.730505
> Office Fax: +44.(0)1274.730909
> www.comodo.com
>=20
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>=20
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