From nobody Fri Jul 8 14:59:20 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima-bootstrap@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima-bootstrap@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 282B312B004 for ; Fri, 8 Jul 2016 14:59:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -15.947 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-15.947 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-1.426, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WgfHm2fiG4Rs for ; Fri, 8 Jul 2016 14:59:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alln-iport-6.cisco.com (alln-iport-6.cisco.com [173.37.142.93]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5B96B12D896 for ; Fri, 8 Jul 2016 14:59:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=658; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1468015155; x=1469224755; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:content-id: content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=0CSSsRWv4OPnlM0AiVpn1rDPYpn/ralArac8rWYbioQ=; b=k2evzBw7gweXF+1T62PUGJpdQO9EvTBjzVRcj6D222832UbgIz6VXcW5 Jc0xOy1Sn7VB8apR83R4wdc1q3f2WweIiGSXgIdNzTTAhwjO2LbNlTa99 x68mn0CEGTx0PuaBUNEgwX9Q3WigJELENGLe1dvfUjKsfguqreo5s5cwT 8=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0CmBQDsIIBX/51dJa1cgz5WfAa5EYF6J?= =?us-ascii?q?IceORMBAQEBAQEBZRwLhFM6UQE+QicELogVDp8Wnn4BAQEBAQUBAQEBAQEBAQE?= =?us-ascii?q?BGAWIHwiKOoIvBZkUAYYLiEOBVI1YkA0BIAIyg3FuAQGIMX8BAQE?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.28,332,1464652800"; d="scan'208";a="295537618" Received: from rcdn-core-6.cisco.com ([173.37.93.157]) by alln-iport-6.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 08 Jul 2016 21:59:14 +0000 Received: from XCH-ALN-012.cisco.com (xch-aln-012.cisco.com [173.36.7.22]) by rcdn-core-6.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id u68LxE3x005268 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Fri, 8 Jul 2016 21:59:14 GMT Received: from xch-aln-013.cisco.com (173.36.7.23) by XCH-ALN-012.cisco.com (173.36.7.22) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1210.3; Fri, 8 Jul 2016 16:59:13 -0500 Received: from xch-aln-013.cisco.com ([173.36.7.23]) by XCH-ALN-013.cisco.com ([173.36.7.23]) with mapi id 15.00.1210.000; Fri, 8 Jul 2016 16:59:13 -0500 From: "Max Pritikin (pritikin)" To: "anima-bootstrap@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: bootstrap over CoAP Thread-Index: AQHR2WP23fcrQ81c30CffFyRKuDnrw== Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2016 21:59:13 +0000 Message-ID: <3A2F4C70-4960-4592-9314-6EC53B53CC94@cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.99.106.6] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <95DAFBF2058D16478E25FC53B629F2B8@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: [Anima-bootstrap] bootstrap over CoAP X-BeenThere: anima-bootstrap@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Mailing list for the bootstrap design team of the ANIMA WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2016 21:59:19 -0000 Folks, As hinted at in section 5.7.5 of the 03 bootstrapping document we wanted to= put some more time and thought into what a CoAP requirement and solution w= ould look like. https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-anima-bootstrapping-keyinfra-03#sec= tion-5.7.5 To expand on the thinking this draft now exists: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-pritikin-coap-bootstrap-00 =09 This is of course rough thoughts. Opinions and feedback strongly solicited.= Pointers to other work you want this to contrast against and or details yo= u feel worthy of additional discussion etc are all solicited. Thanks! See you all in Berlin, - max= From nobody Sat Jul 9 03:52:27 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima-bootstrap@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima-bootstrap@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99CED12B025 for ; Sat, 9 Jul 2016 03:52:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0RUa2IVbymo5 for ; Sat, 9 Jul 2016 03:52:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x230.google.com (mail-wm0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::230]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 91C8B12B01A for ; Sat, 9 Jul 2016 03:52:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x230.google.com with SMTP id k123so38702113wme.0 for ; Sat, 09 Jul 2016 03:52:23 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=subject:to:references:from:organization:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=wvz9k84F3QLkTHbp6Wuszqb1gyLlNxoMl4yXof9Hpl0=; b=O0OuSc1dR3y/sinZ0RZ0FaWEC5LJk6gF4Ssjkn0JRbNuCtFKkuu8K/B70vyFf79Gir BP+6JaIjyhwAUn3RCKV5rgP5UzGuKsgriD5njdZvda5qbuc0OeOxeYFjzfis8RkBpoiR Oab29pB/1htgmukHG3sPLJddVbk6/6fmv8sCqcTvAacC9Vm7gYa9gAitMNLUJtQqYevU ANhL+L2SzEg3zVMo+GVH0UHSo78QUQO1jfI0VcrtqsPJ76IKy6XejkpytLJTa5dlGDov gZwGQmLkYX8DRrJ0jBRW0TIVofjIvjnJeicJeoaYjkswh8xIj/E9o2zP7xgxh7/Wk96J 9sFg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:organization :message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to :content-transfer-encoding; bh=wvz9k84F3QLkTHbp6Wuszqb1gyLlNxoMl4yXof9Hpl0=; b=Q4G8EV1yOARn62btheyZjuWqChtNd+foMWgOJf+GGMjU3HSgefpXJYClwGwyfo9woi amZsM8hFyNCARGELwmDkW/03mpIq3oj7tyWAmz0mQXYHy2iEp5tPwSzfzb9WLT39iP47 1MFgutL7WjwEG/8/gsrqcOX7vwQ4y2lbfJSjMj7oTJdJRfnUflLIiVETpVe1V/b/6Kfb xomBZNbFfkzKU5JC8TElfP3ut7R0ZICypt3Oh/pdxJZgVjGG89MLOpAnCm9bf2TTfTpE TzoEyt/ygR8iSlf1A0qnwFvo2IDeINW6CHrkTeNS+CYNx80f42/PGOZb3vtdgKz3nX/D nUGw== X-Gm-Message-State: ALyK8tIK4XJRDgs2tu/aoaEBWwGkShOdTfOsD4aZVHrFuQjD2RMt1Czo4CyrQqyyMcwtCQ== X-Received: by 10.28.189.193 with SMTP id n184mr2554113wmf.18.1468061541830; Sat, 09 Jul 2016 03:52:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.1.29] (cpc66883-mort6-2-0-cust696.19-2.cable.virginm.net. [92.233.126.185]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id z5sm7369104wme.5.2016.07.09.03.52.20 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 09 Jul 2016 03:52:21 -0700 (PDT) To: "Max Pritikin (pritikin)" , "anima-bootstrap@ietf.org" References: <3A2F4C70-4960-4592-9314-6EC53B53CC94@cisco.com> From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: University of Auckland Message-ID: <5d5623cd-fe4b-e443-da5d-6a43ffb9b5c6@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2016 22:52:35 +1200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.1.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <3A2F4C70-4960-4592-9314-6EC53B53CC94@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima-bootstrap] bootstrap over CoAP X-BeenThere: anima-bootstrap@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Mailing list for the bootstrap design team of the ANIMA WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 09 Jul 2016 10:52:25 -0000 Max, At my level of understanding of CoAP, which is very low, this seems to make sense. I do have a couple of questions, which probably betray my ignorance: 1. Is CoAP/DTLS protected against corrupt packets? (Assuming we are talking about UDP/IPv6 there will at least be the UDP checksum.) 2. In the fragmentation scenario, what happens when a fragment is corrupted or lost? Regards Brian On 09/07/2016 09:59, Max Pritikin (pritikin) wrote: > > Folks, > > As hinted at in section 5.7.5 of the 03 bootstrapping document we wanted to put some more time and thought into what a CoAP requirement and solution would look like. > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-anima-bootstrapping-keyinfra-03#section-5.7.5 > > To expand on the thinking this draft now exists: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-pritikin-coap-bootstrap-00 > > This is of course rough thoughts. Opinions and feedback strongly solicited. Pointers to other work you want this to contrast against and or details you feel worthy of additional discussion etc are all solicited. Thanks! > > See you all in Berlin, > > - max > _______________________________________________ > Anima-bootstrap mailing list > Anima-bootstrap@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/anima-bootstrap > From nobody Sat Jul 9 06:46:26 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima-bootstrap@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima-bootstrap@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D8A912D107 for ; Sat, 9 Jul 2016 06:46:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CCmoCZjaYkot for ; Sat, 9 Jul 2016 06:46:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay6-d.mail.gandi.net (relay6-d.mail.gandi.net [IPv6:2001:4b98:c:538::198]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EFA5112B03C for ; Sat, 9 Jul 2016 06:46:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mfilter47-d.gandi.net (mfilter47-d.gandi.net [217.70.178.178]) by relay6-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15436FB886; Sat, 9 Jul 2016 15:46:21 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at mfilter47-d.gandi.net Received: from relay6-d.mail.gandi.net ([IPv6:::ffff:217.70.183.198]) by mfilter47-d.gandi.net (mfilter47-d.gandi.net [::ffff:10.0.15.180]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qb7UJ_80wUhU; Sat, 9 Jul 2016 15:46:19 +0200 (CEST) X-Originating-IP: 93.199.242.26 Received: from nar-3.local (p5DC7F21A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [93.199.242.26]) (Authenticated sender: cabo@cabo.im) by relay6-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 2D5CDFB89F; Sat, 9 Jul 2016 15:46:19 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <57810029.2070408@tzi.org> Date: Sat, 09 Jul 2016 15:46:17 +0200 From: Carsten Bormann User-Agent: Postbox 4.0.8 (Macintosh/20151105) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brian E Carpenter References: <3A2F4C70-4960-4592-9314-6EC53B53CC94@cisco.com> <5d5623cd-fe4b-e443-da5d-6a43ffb9b5c6@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <5d5623cd-fe4b-e443-da5d-6a43ffb9b5c6@gmail.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.2.3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Cc: "Max Pritikin \(pritikin\)" , "anima-bootstrap@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Anima-bootstrap] bootstrap over CoAP X-BeenThere: anima-bootstrap@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Mailing list for the bootstrap design team of the ANIMA WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 09 Jul 2016 13:46:25 -0000 > 1. Is CoAP/DTLS protected against corrupt packets? (Assuming we are > talking about UDP/IPv6 there will at least be the UDP checksum.) DTLS ciphersuites usually authenticate the packets (and protect against replay), so there will be very strong protection. > 2. In the fragmentation scenario, what happens when a fragment is > corrupted or lost? I'm not sure I understood that part of the draft*), but generally CoAP is designed so you can avoid fragmentation (and use the segmentation provided by draft-ietf-core-block instead); the latter has per-segment reliability (acknowledgements and retransmits). DTLS may require fragmentation during its handshake; this is mitigated if you can use a PSK (symmetric) or, if you need asymmetric, ECC-based ciphersuite, which allows the packets to stay well below 1280 bytes. Grüße, Carsten *) We just had an interesting exchange in the CoRE WG where some people weren't aware of the terminology that differentiates fragmentation and segmentation; I apologize for sticking to that. From nobody Sat Jul 9 11:52:57 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima-bootstrap@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima-bootstrap@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36BCA12D1B8 for ; Sat, 9 Jul 2016 11:52:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.8 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AdP5GtUCGs9M for ; Sat, 9 Jul 2016 11:52:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x22a.google.com (mail-wm0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::22a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0433D12B039 for ; Sat, 9 Jul 2016 11:52:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x22a.google.com with SMTP id f126so48559079wma.1 for ; Sat, 09 Jul 2016 11:52:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=subject:to:references:cc:from:organization:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=R/SHg0ekjdfI8lK4GWMyusyXAgt36hvDrGywi7XOGzw=; b=Jruw6OczkMCkFn2kQF0kkVE2dj5Joj//CJeqGIiiftmedAhV/drYodL0tcE6KKugLf 6j6L9e6Qg3pS5MWnqWjXEVxHPJTa3QgK8tWLLmDt2YBJcMXJODOOYDHE571IcjtpzEXp 0+8m5wu6Ze3I35VExRnl9XhN0erQyPtH9t4P6/EaSCsISFKpicxOfALEK75WH/9x0je1 JyosaeLn+UuHjJXrCRvpj86RHAhwF+bVMAGURNjAcJ9CTCgJjlmJxpSL7cTfD986ZVmA 5G+Q1VeBz6TaSEOGqEBDMRL34v9V7s3WVlRCYzj9m2FODf+DMDfM7iZ/AVcR1se30hzX doKg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:cc:from:organization :message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to :content-transfer-encoding; bh=R/SHg0ekjdfI8lK4GWMyusyXAgt36hvDrGywi7XOGzw=; b=f5V01ITu6oeCaaaE29B+wpubh+iTg62gxnMaZUNc3Qv2bK1pqFwO4jFzgg/nuakk9W dlX1Dv0TO2AMp+WgT/Jdz6wAJrb3HkVBChyCfTUHpszOhFzKz8DSw1MPCdcjm6HXxG3b rPfN5PJ0Y5DdwhE6hcaPI3u59tLkTUc3K3YmokPzuZK7ArAbCj7+auGMwzuosgRs+5yG JdknTnbEoXvSniiDDr5XqvpZajvhVY4m4N9zqx9pc1pOQMJG8ALOMXi3Cs8ZlrLCDr4d jgbEAV9N704+sBrJ4lhi3SgC2+kJ3fZddaKiqB6kNogmudrxiKAvGjAN0MhzDAwnqJYs hqww== X-Gm-Message-State: ALyK8tLHck5X12LaECwzNJph2wWuc440MHzjPfQr0MwHCKNtfOl8Spp4k5+3NgXdRtQ0Sw== X-Received: by 10.28.183.134 with SMTP id h128mr3709328wmf.7.1468090372235; Sat, 09 Jul 2016 11:52:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.1.29] (cpc66883-mort6-2-0-cust696.19-2.cable.virginm.net. [92.233.126.185]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id xs9sm1803757wjc.11.2016.07.09.11.52.50 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 09 Jul 2016 11:52:51 -0700 (PDT) To: Carsten Bormann References: <3A2F4C70-4960-4592-9314-6EC53B53CC94@cisco.com> <5d5623cd-fe4b-e443-da5d-6a43ffb9b5c6@gmail.com> <57810029.2070408@tzi.org> From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: University of Auckland Message-ID: <17d1c08e-e9c6-d017-58ba-85989d56273d@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2016 06:52:50 +1200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.2.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <57810029.2070408@tzi.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Cc: "Max Pritikin \(pritikin\)" , "anima-bootstrap@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Anima-bootstrap] bootstrap over CoAP X-BeenThere: anima-bootstrap@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Mailing list for the bootstrap design team of the ANIMA WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 09 Jul 2016 18:52:55 -0000 On 10/07/2016 01:46, Carsten Bormann wrote: >> 1. Is CoAP/DTLS protected against corrupt packets? (Assuming we are >> talking about UDP/IPv6 there will at least be the UDP checksum.) >=20 > DTLS ciphersuites usually authenticate the packets (and protect against= > replay), so there will be very strong protection. Good, that's what I hoped to hear. >=20 >> 2. In the fragmentation scenario, what happens when a fragment is >> corrupted or lost? >=20 > I'm not sure I understood that part of the draft*), but generally CoAP > is designed so you can avoid fragmentation=20 That isn't what the draft seems to say, though. However, it's clearly tal= king about application-layer fragmentation to avoid IP fragmentation. > (and use the segmentation > provided by draft-ietf-core-block instead); the latter has per-segment > reliability (acknowledgements and retransmits). DTLS may require > fragmentation during its handshake; this is mitigated if you can use a > PSK (symmetric) or, if you need asymmetric, ECC-based ciphersuite, whic= h > allows the packets to stay well below 1280 bytes. Right. So the app layer chops the message into <1280 byte pieces, and one= of them is lost...? Regards Brian >=20 > Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten >=20 > *) We just had an interesting exchange in the CoRE WG where some people= > weren't aware of the terminology that differentiates fragmentation and > segmentation; I apologize for sticking to that. >=20 From nobody Sat Jul 9 12:40:21 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima-bootstrap@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima-bootstrap@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D830512B04A for ; Sat, 9 Jul 2016 12:40:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.701 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.701 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lMrNALWGGdzw for ; Sat, 9 Jul 2016 12:40:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay5-d.mail.gandi.net (relay5-d.mail.gandi.net [217.70.183.197]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6B20F12B026 for ; Sat, 9 Jul 2016 12:40:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mfilter45-d.gandi.net (mfilter45-d.gandi.net [217.70.178.176]) by relay5-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD27B41C086; Sat, 9 Jul 2016 21:40:16 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at mfilter45-d.gandi.net Received: from relay5-d.mail.gandi.net ([IPv6:::ffff:217.70.183.197]) by mfilter45-d.gandi.net (mfilter45-d.gandi.net [::ffff:10.0.15.180]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zXK78Urf3lVp; Sat, 9 Jul 2016 21:40:15 +0200 (CEST) X-Originating-IP: 93.199.242.26 Received: from nar-3.local (p5DC7F21A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [93.199.242.26]) (Authenticated sender: cabo@cabo.im) by relay5-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 2AAC441C07D; Sat, 9 Jul 2016 21:40:12 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <5781531A.1080702@tzi.org> Date: Sat, 09 Jul 2016 21:40:10 +0200 From: Carsten Bormann User-Agent: Postbox 4.0.8 (Macintosh/20151105) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brian E Carpenter References: <3A2F4C70-4960-4592-9314-6EC53B53CC94@cisco.com> <5d5623cd-fe4b-e443-da5d-6a43ffb9b5c6@gmail.com> <57810029.2070408@tzi.org> <17d1c08e-e9c6-d017-58ba-85989d56273d@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <17d1c08e-e9c6-d017-58ba-85989d56273d@gmail.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.2.3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Cc: "Max Pritikin \(pritikin\)" , "anima-bootstrap@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Anima-bootstrap] bootstrap over CoAP X-BeenThere: anima-bootstrap@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Mailing list for the bootstrap design team of the ANIMA WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 09 Jul 2016 19:40:20 -0000 >> I'm not sure I understood that part of the draft*), but generally CoAP >> is designed so you can avoid fragmentation > > That isn't what the draft seems to say, though. However, it's clearly talking > about application-layer fragmentation to avoid IP fragmentation. (that's segmentation... I know.) >> (and use the segmentation >> provided by draft-ietf-core-block instead); the latter has per-segment >> reliability (acknowledgements and retransmits). DTLS may require >> fragmentation during its handshake; this is mitigated if you can use a >> PSK (symmetric) or, if you need asymmetric, ECC-based ciphersuite, which >> allows the packets to stay well below 1280 bytes. > > Right. So the app layer chops the message into <1280 byte pieces, and one > of them is lost...? Each of those segments ("blocks") is (actually, can be, but you do want to do this with the block-wise protocol) transmitted reliably, so it doesn't get lost. Grüße, Carsten From nobody Sat Jul 9 23:33:13 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima-bootstrap@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima-bootstrap@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A8D812B01C for ; Sat, 9 Jul 2016 23:33:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id h4FXlPyQLtwk for ; Sat, 9 Jul 2016 23:33:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x22a.google.com (mail-wm0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::22a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0470B128E19 for ; Sat, 9 Jul 2016 23:33:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x22a.google.com with SMTP id f65so30204967wmi.0 for ; Sat, 09 Jul 2016 23:33:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=subject:to:references:cc:from:organization:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=c4n8LaYVcOgyYGaWTHiUpb3qO3DHEreQZmTqRl/AZHA=; b=K7yu27QhpJEpPn9kJD60Qj20iiagtkFyglqA23C2e/dPe8iI7FF+8hpf0vswzICE/D 00YKK8xI1u5vJINsf+8U8JWMXX+bzMwuGDh1zRlr8Q+o26dcT84/2b5f0MoE65WO9pFI QaTUYzh+e3Q0tMUMnguBrV9CbizFjumEUD3lBQGqtgEBrfoBNtLwwrvLBzRspPb7ZgsH fOJsLXtxeHXznCq9b7O7b2E8itrmdmIrcFe6lczj8cQshM/w1PRiBKlpQOiw67oFgjJ1 uClwWgJ2qx19rjQ+BorZqi0ZD9Nv4KvKuCfleoOkseiOIQBM3LuRZIg8EOMcK8ajqYxq fIcw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:cc:from:organization :message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to :content-transfer-encoding; bh=c4n8LaYVcOgyYGaWTHiUpb3qO3DHEreQZmTqRl/AZHA=; b=gOp01mLsqV0ShZKNVc2Lf9wlj3HTNmN+ur9TpfIW6ptIXf66+GtEFg0ddTRMO4d/0g HhunSrdKnBjEAcvvBfekeivtJ0LokdV1VssMxFVYCztpw2S0gKvEQ4Pq8Wl+qlPFD+JV CZIWfvTY2Q0HTgSRBCtzwpEtmK00Azi9j6CM77dHHRU+ZoPoNtYt1knZitDNr9dReyKF hiv8xbeY4Fadd8Zv0FuCRW3FMv64eYxJY1XZgLh8Me5nid9k26Y0UI+OGoQbA9BFc4uP dPemrRdHTOW0Dz1IXh/lUIR8HBAqZBNMjonn4woBfDcl/81fwQLeVtQRYkEOFORxh4lF wPpQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ALyK8tLNw0wYEh3lSLR3eYRdfZ/ahr7N6QkdwISA1zy1jc3p5bOU/HMBtufriioD4j8PmQ== X-Received: by 10.28.135.69 with SMTP id j66mr5770951wmd.10.1468132389429; Sat, 09 Jul 2016 23:33:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.1.29] (cpc66883-mort6-2-0-cust696.19-2.cable.virginm.net. [92.233.126.185]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id rx9sm4213626wjc.19.2016.07.09.23.33.08 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 09 Jul 2016 23:33:08 -0700 (PDT) To: Carsten Bormann References: <3A2F4C70-4960-4592-9314-6EC53B53CC94@cisco.com> <5d5623cd-fe4b-e443-da5d-6a43ffb9b5c6@gmail.com> <57810029.2070408@tzi.org> <17d1c08e-e9c6-d017-58ba-85989d56273d@gmail.com> <5781531A.1080702@tzi.org> From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: University of Auckland Message-ID: <729980b6-767a-b675-1874-5c8e1fefd025@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2016 18:33:09 +1200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.2.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <5781531A.1080702@tzi.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Cc: "Max Pritikin \(pritikin\)" , "anima-bootstrap@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Anima-bootstrap] bootstrap over CoAP X-BeenThere: anima-bootstrap@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Mailing list for the bootstrap design team of the ANIMA WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2016 06:33:12 -0000 On 10/07/2016 07:40, Carsten Bormann wrote: >>> I'm not sure I understood that part of the draft*), but generally CoA= P >>> is designed so you can avoid fragmentation=20 >> >> That isn't what the draft seems to say, though. However, it's clearly = talking >> about application-layer fragmentation to avoid IP fragmentation. >=20 > (that's segmentation... I know.) >=20 >>> (and use the segmentation >>> provided by draft-ietf-core-block instead); the latter has per-segmen= t >>> reliability (acknowledgements and retransmits). DTLS may require >>> fragmentation during its handshake; this is mitigated if you can use = a >>> PSK (symmetric) or, if you need asymmetric, ECC-based ciphersuite, wh= ich >>> allows the packets to stay well below 1280 bytes. >> >> Right. So the app layer chops the message into <1280 byte pieces, and = one >> of them is lost...? >=20 > Each of those segments ("blocks") is (actually, can be, but you do want= > to do this with the block-wise protocol) transmitted reliably, so it > doesn't get lost. OK, so I think that a couple of sentences in draft-pritikin-coap-bootstra= p could clarify all that. Thanks Brian > Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten >=20 From nobody Sun Jul 10 10:14:39 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima-bootstrap@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima-bootstrap@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3478912D0EA for ; Sun, 10 Jul 2016 10:14:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -15.808 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-15.808 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-1.287, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2GdaXNKkt2bP for ; Sun, 10 Jul 2016 10:14:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com [173.37.86.74]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EFA6912B005 for ; 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charset="utf-8" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: Carsten Bormann , "anima-bootstrap@ietf.org" , "Panos Kampanakis \(pkampana\)" Subject: Re: [Anima-bootstrap] bootstrap over CoAP X-BeenThere: anima-bootstrap@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Mailing list for the bootstrap design team of the ANIMA WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2016 17:14:37 -0000 DQo+IE9uIEp1bCA5LCAyMDE2LCBhdCAxMTozMyBQTSwgQnJpYW4gRSBDYXJwZW50ZXIgPGJyaWFu LmUuY2FycGVudGVyQGdtYWlsLmNvbT4gd3JvdGU6DQo+IA0KPiBPbiAxMC8wNy8yMDE2IDA3OjQw LCBDYXJzdGVuIEJvcm1hbm4gd3JvdGU6DQo+Pj4+IEknbSBub3Qgc3VyZSBJIHVuZGVyc3Rvb2Qg dGhhdCBwYXJ0IG9mIHRoZSBkcmFmdCopLCBidXQgZ2VuZXJhbGx5IENvQVANCj4+Pj4gaXMgZGVz aWduZWQgc28geW91IGNhbiBhdm9pZCBmcmFnbWVudGF0aW9uIA0KPj4+IA0KPj4+IFRoYXQgaXNu J3Qgd2hhdCB0aGUgZHJhZnQgc2VlbXMgdG8gc2F5LCB0aG91Z2guIEhvd2V2ZXIsIGl0J3MgY2xl YXJseSB0YWxraW5nDQo+Pj4gYWJvdXQgYXBwbGljYXRpb24tbGF5ZXIgZnJhZ21lbnRhdGlvbiB0 byBhdm9pZCBJUCBmcmFnbWVudGF0aW9uLg0KPj4gDQo+PiAodGhhdCdzIHNlZ21lbnRhdGlvbi4u LiAgSSBrbm93LikNCj4+IA0KPj4+PiAoYW5kIHVzZSB0aGUgc2VnbWVudGF0aW9uDQo+Pj4+IHBy b3ZpZGVkIGJ5IGRyYWZ0LWlldGYtY29yZS1ibG9jayBpbnN0ZWFkKTsgdGhlIGxhdHRlciBoYXMg cGVyLXNlZ21lbnQNCj4+Pj4gcmVsaWFiaWxpdHkgKGFja25vd2xlZGdlbWVudHMgYW5kIHJldHJh bnNtaXRzKS4gICBEVExTIG1heSByZXF1aXJlDQo+Pj4+IGZyYWdtZW50YXRpb24gZHVyaW5nIGl0 cyBoYW5kc2hha2U7IHRoaXMgaXMgbWl0aWdhdGVkIGlmIHlvdSBjYW4gdXNlIGENCj4+Pj4gUFNL IChzeW1tZXRyaWMpIG9yLCBpZiB5b3UgbmVlZCBhc3ltbWV0cmljLCBFQ0MtYmFzZWQgY2lwaGVy c3VpdGUsIHdoaWNoDQo+Pj4+IGFsbG93cyB0aGUgcGFja2V0cyB0byBzdGF5IHdlbGwgYmVsb3cg MTI4MCBieXRlcy4NCj4+PiANCj4+PiBSaWdodC4gU28gdGhlIGFwcCBsYXllciBjaG9wcyB0aGUg bWVzc2FnZSBpbnRvIDwxMjgwIGJ5dGUgcGllY2VzLCBhbmQgb25lDQo+Pj4gb2YgdGhlbSBpcyBs b3N0Li4uPw0KPj4gDQo+PiBFYWNoIG9mIHRob3NlIHNlZ21lbnRzICgiYmxvY2tzIikgaXMgKGFj dHVhbGx5LCBjYW4gYmUsIGJ1dCB5b3UgZG8gd2FudA0KPj4gdG8gZG8gdGhpcyB3aXRoIHRoZSBi bG9jay13aXNlIHByb3RvY29sKSB0cmFuc21pdHRlZCByZWxpYWJseSwgc28gaXQNCj4+IGRvZXNu J3QgZ2V0IGxvc3QuDQo+IA0KPiBPSywgc28gSSB0aGluayB0aGF0IGEgY291cGxlIG9mIHNlbnRl bmNlcyBpbiBkcmFmdC1wcml0aWtpbi1jb2FwLWJvb3RzdHJhcA0KPiBjb3VsZCBjbGFyaWZ5IGFs bCB0aGF0Lg0KDQpUaGFuayB5b3UuIFdlIGNhbiBtYWtlIHRoYXQgaGFwcGVuLA0KDQotIG1heA0K DQoNCj4gDQo+IFRoYW5rcw0KPiAgICBCcmlhbg0KPiANCj4+IEdyw7zDn2UsIENhcnN0ZW4NCg0K From nobody Mon Jul 11 15:07:18 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima-bootstrap@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima-bootstrap@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 248D812B03B for ; 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Mon, 11 Jul 2016 18:07:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: Brian E Carpenter In-Reply-To: <5d5623cd-fe4b-e443-da5d-6a43ffb9b5c6@gmail.com> References: <3A2F4C70-4960-4592-9314-6EC53B53CC94@cisco.com> <5d5623cd-fe4b-e443-da5d-6a43ffb9b5c6@gmail.com> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.6+dev; GNU Emacs 24.5.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Cc: "Max Pritikin \(pritikin\)" , "anima-bootstrap@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Anima-bootstrap] bootstrap over CoAP X-BeenThere: anima-bootstrap@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Mailing list for the bootstrap design team of the ANIMA WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2016 22:07:17 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Max Pritikin (pritikin) wrote: >>> Each of those segments ("blocks") is (actually, can be, but you do >>> want to do this with the block-wise protocol) transmitted reliably, >>> so it doesn't get lost. >> >> OK, so I think that a couple of sentences in >> draft-pritikin-coap-bootstrap could clarify all that. Further, we anticipate that we will sometimes need to send >1280 things (chains of certificates), and so we will need to use CoAP Block Transfer mode as well. 6tisch-security is also considering OSCOAP rather than DTLS, but this is very primilinary. -- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1 iQEVAwUBV4QYj4CLcPvd0N1lAQL/CQgAgDEBBdZpA4QgKIiEbkvzMEF9sqCd1efo v+0eIpdWWqKY2ZJxXDInpMIR1YyrYuPpMciQHsaDVQy1UwiquflzdppD3P8sI59h 7hFZ3OrDJ/qDT9yjj21Tkl3B7K5THLxT0XH/wncY7DhjSQcALwpXO1YzoCUWejZ5 7zbgK+JSflZBOD2orZmWOMn3jHH3TvYbPqF8uZR2Q9YT/43o7VN78Je/Kb4ArA8Q 4Jzv8jY1Al3Z06BkTpGAdbkjZfNbNAjY0uL+jmUW3xCA16w6OSTntbGaUDZqwHL3 O18+hRtbEVkVwheXYOuFEUCAquIcD9/YB+HE2ruE0U0EtscOoaxObg== =Z4eN -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Wed Jul 13 14:15:40 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima-bootstrap@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima-bootstrap@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 520DD12D68D for ; Wed, 13 Jul 2016 14:15:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -15.808 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-15.808 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-1.287, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GV4dptwskMs7 for ; Wed, 13 Jul 2016 14:15:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alln-iport-4.cisco.com (alln-iport-4.cisco.com [173.37.142.91]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 22FB212D67C for ; Wed, 13 Jul 2016 14:15:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=470; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1468444537; x=1469654137; h=date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references: mime-version:in-reply-to; bh=Yc0ZLbN9KlyxlmZOXqaL/8BtfnieitPC2eBBdSlq/40=; b=V6rn5u0LK3YNNVFY0rnubHvk8A88fKh2HFqm5Zmrqfql7tY1zXsw7FTE XYWmpCEoekRtn2xC10X5OLo1Na1mf4cpeGma/aXUwZ8iM1ar4IpPQlyKe jmOPIwSiS2Yw1t4PDZwFjen1vxIZKmeLykMDSs49NUHN/bgaYL86gdmbE o=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0BzBQBEroZX/4kNJK1bgz64K4QKhhkCg?= =?us-ascii?q?TY8EAEBAQEBAQFlJ4RdBjo9AhAsGgsPBToPiEPBRgEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQEBARySZIIvBY58iiCOTQqBVRaEWYhrkBc1H4I8gVUciWkBAQE?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.28,359,1464652800"; d="scan'208";a="296639315" Received: from alln-core-4.cisco.com ([173.36.13.137]) by alln-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 13 Jul 2016 21:15:36 +0000 Received: from mcast-linux1.cisco.com (mcast-linux1.cisco.com [172.27.244.121]) by alln-core-4.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id u6DLFPsd020167 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 13 Jul 2016 21:15:26 GMT Received: from mcast-linux1.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mcast-linux1.cisco.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u6DLFPmO020848; Wed, 13 Jul 2016 14:15:25 -0700 Received: (from eckert@localhost) by mcast-linux1.cisco.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/Submit) id u6DLFP88020847; Wed, 13 Jul 2016 14:15:25 -0700 Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2016 14:15:25 -0700 From: Toerless Eckert To: Brian E Carpenter Message-ID: <20160713211525.GB20369@cisco.com> References: <20160708125429.32189.27110.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <5cf12152afbe49b4b020ad56f261a147@XCH-RCD-006.cisco.com> <0ed321f7-c708-e9d6-5ea8-42fc5f08faa0@gmail.com> <20160708213823.GA15168@cisco.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20160708213823.GA15168@cisco.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.2i Archived-At: Cc: anima-bootstrap@ietf.org Subject: [Anima-bootstrap] Brian, *: GRASP and BRWSKY/ACP: Re: [Anima] FW: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-anima-autonomic-control-plane-03.txt X-BeenThere: anima-bootstrap@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Mailing list for the bootstrap design team of the ANIMA WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2016 21:15:38 -0000 Brian: Whats the best time to meet up ideally before the ANIMA meeting on monday to discuss/rectify the situation re. using GRASP re. mDNS in BRSKY/ACP ? Would like to have this solved hopefully before the EG meeting mon afternoon. I arrive Sun 2 PM in Berlin, so available from eg: 4 PM Sun and Mon morning as well, no exclusions. Whats fitting for the others here, especially MichaelB, MichaelR, Max... could you please chime in ? Cheers Toerless From nobody Thu Jul 14 12:46:10 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima-bootstrap@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima-bootstrap@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 845ED12D127 for ; Thu, 14 Jul 2016 12:46:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -15.808 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-15.808 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-1.287, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id j8QtCbUEkPnr for ; Thu, 14 Jul 2016 12:46:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alln-iport-7.cisco.com (alln-iport-7.cisco.com [173.37.142.94]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 622F612B02C for ; Thu, 14 Jul 2016 12:46:08 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=1192; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1468525568; x=1469735168; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=Z2okpRcrZwulYuDi5vuznwqNuSewTc1RPlxLeuV7C8U=; b=TmcY+gwpQ8HGEp+ILp7QdgZd0mcIHvI5/fDvTMCijwSk+i5YFg2Ti1ek PRf3KdbRwN36JCMt5fK2ooaJN+MzQncJ4EnnPuQM2c9yQ3OOkDGnOqV1S 7CSSVr4GddnpcfQ/IwHl58kb/Mlh5hmqLSN9VGAX2XZolk3S5I84a52xf Q=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0AYAgDg6odX/5pdJa1cgz5WfAasTYwZg?= =?us-ascii?q?XsihXcCgTM4FAEBAQEBAQFlJ4RcAQEFAQE4NAkCDAQCAQgRBAEBHwUEByEGCxQ?= =?us-ascii?q?IAQgCBAENBQiIDgMXDr0VDYQPAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBFwWGKoRNg?= =?us-ascii?q?kOHWAEEmGs0AYxCgg+BcoRZiG2IIId4AR42gjyBNW4Bhm5/AQEB?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.28,364,1464652800"; d="scan'208";a="297841373" Received: from rcdn-core-3.cisco.com ([173.37.93.154]) by alln-iport-7.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 14 Jul 2016 19:46:07 +0000 Received: from XCH-RCD-005.cisco.com (xch-rcd-005.cisco.com [173.37.102.15]) by rcdn-core-3.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id u6EJk7Vb006958 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 14 Jul 2016 19:46:07 GMT Received: from xch-rcd-006.cisco.com (173.37.102.16) by XCH-RCD-005.cisco.com (173.37.102.15) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1210.3; Thu, 14 Jul 2016 14:46:06 -0500 Received: from xch-rcd-006.cisco.com ([173.37.102.16]) by XCH-RCD-006.cisco.com ([173.37.102.16]) with mapi id 15.00.1210.000; Thu, 14 Jul 2016 14:46:06 -0500 From: "Michael Behringer (mbehring)" To: "Toerless Eckert (eckert)" , Brian E Carpenter Thread-Topic: [Anima-bootstrap] Brian, *: GRASP and BRWSKY/ACP: Re: [Anima] FW: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-anima-autonomic-control-plane-03.txt Thread-Index: AQHR2RfeYiYE/7lid06W/SXLRjVlG6AOfaJQgACfWwCAAEa/gIAH1T6AgAElb/A= Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2016 19:46:06 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20160708125429.32189.27110.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <5cf12152afbe49b4b020ad56f261a147@XCH-RCD-006.cisco.com> <0ed321f7-c708-e9d6-5ea8-42fc5f08faa0@gmail.com> <20160708213823.GA15168@cisco.com> <20160713211525.GB20369@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <20160713211525.GB20369@cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.55.238.135] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "anima-bootstrap@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Anima-bootstrap] Brian, *: GRASP and BRWSKY/ACP: Re: [Anima] FW: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-anima-autonomic-control-plane-03.txt X-BeenThere: anima-bootstrap@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Mailing list for the bootstrap design team of the ANIMA WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2016 19:46:09 -0000 I arrive Sunday evening only. I could do a dinner meeting only, I'm afraid.= .. > -----Original Message----- > From: Anima-bootstrap [mailto:anima-bootstrap-bounces@ietf.org] On > Behalf Of Toerless Eckert (eckert) > Sent: 13 July 2016 23:15 > To: Brian E Carpenter > Cc: anima-bootstrap@ietf.org > Subject: [Anima-bootstrap] Brian, *: GRASP and BRWSKY/ACP: Re: [Anima] > FW: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-anima-autonomic-control-plane= - > 03.txt >=20 > Brian: >=20 > Whats the best time to meet up ideally before the ANIMA meeting on > monday to discuss/rectify the situation re. using GRASP re. mDNS in > BRSKY/ACP ? Would like to have this solved hopefully before the EG meetin= g > mon afternoon. >=20 > I arrive Sun 2 PM in Berlin, so available from eg: 4 PM Sun and Mon morni= ng > as well, no exclusions. Whats fitting for the others here, especially Mic= haelB, > MichaelR, Max... could you please chime in ? >=20 > Cheers > Toerless >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Anima-bootstrap mailing list > Anima-bootstrap@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/anima-bootstrap From nobody Sun Jul 17 03:19:53 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima-bootstrap@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima-bootstrap@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A027712D1B2 for ; Sun, 17 Jul 2016 03:19:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -15.808 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-15.808 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-1.287, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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d="scan'208";a="298097392" Received: from alln-core-6.cisco.com ([173.36.13.139]) by alln-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 17 Jul 2016 10:19:50 +0000 Received: from XCH-ALN-010.cisco.com (xch-aln-010.cisco.com [173.36.7.20]) by alln-core-6.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id u6HAJnD1017205 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 17 Jul 2016 10:19:49 GMT Received: from xch-aln-013.cisco.com (173.36.7.23) by XCH-ALN-010.cisco.com (173.36.7.20) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1210.3; Sun, 17 Jul 2016 05:19:48 -0500 Received: from xch-aln-013.cisco.com ([173.36.7.23]) by XCH-ALN-013.cisco.com ([173.36.7.23]) with mapi id 15.00.1210.000; Sun, 17 Jul 2016 05:19:48 -0500 From: "Max Pritikin (pritikin)" To: Brian E Carpenter Thread-Topic: [Anima-bootstrap] bootstrap over CoAP Thread-Index: AQHR2WP3WwSJYty+90K8Z1kkbrP0XqAQQQqAgAAwiICAAFWmAIAADTkAgAC2cYCAALNBgIAKjGIA Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2016 10:19:48 +0000 Message-ID: <930872E1-2025-4EA5-B394-1991754216EE@cisco.com> References: <3A2F4C70-4960-4592-9314-6EC53B53CC94@cisco.com> <5d5623cd-fe4b-e443-da5d-6a43ffb9b5c6@gmail.com> <57810029.2070408@tzi.org> <17d1c08e-e9c6-d017-58ba-85989d56273d@gmail.com> <5781531A.1080702@tzi.org> <729980b6-767a-b675-1874-5c8e1fefd025@gmail.com> <8D35379D-678D-4293-93E4-150253AE46CE@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <8D35379D-678D-4293-93E4-150253AE46CE@cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.24.93.75] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: Carsten Bormann , "anima-bootstrap@ietf.org" , "Panos Kampanakis \(pkampana\)" Subject: Re: [Anima-bootstrap] bootstrap over CoAP X-BeenThere: anima-bootstrap@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Mailing list for the bootstrap design team of the ANIMA WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2016 10:19:52 -0000 DQo+IE9uIEp1bCAxMCwgMjAxNiwgYXQgNzoxNCBQTSwgTWF4IFByaXRpa2luIChwcml0aWtpbikg PHByaXRpa2luQGNpc2NvLmNvbT4gd3JvdGU6DQo+IA0KPj4gDQo+PiBPbiBKdWwgOSwgMjAxNiwg YXQgMTE6MzMgUE0sIEJyaWFuIEUgQ2FycGVudGVyIDxicmlhbi5lLmNhcnBlbnRlckBnbWFpbC5j b20+IHdyb3RlOg0KPj4gDQo+PiBPbiAxMC8wNy8yMDE2IDA3OjQwLCBDYXJzdGVuIEJvcm1hbm4g d3JvdGU6DQo+Pj4+PiBJJ20gbm90IHN1cmUgSSB1bmRlcnN0b29kIHRoYXQgcGFydCBvZiB0aGUg ZHJhZnQqKSwgYnV0IGdlbmVyYWxseSBDb0FQDQo+Pj4+PiBpcyBkZXNpZ25lZCBzbyB5b3UgY2Fu IGF2b2lkIGZyYWdtZW50YXRpb24gDQo+Pj4+IA0KPj4+PiBUaGF0IGlzbid0IHdoYXQgdGhlIGRy YWZ0IHNlZW1zIHRvIHNheSwgdGhvdWdoLiBIb3dldmVyLCBpdCdzIGNsZWFybHkgdGFsa2luZw0K Pj4+PiBhYm91dCBhcHBsaWNhdGlvbi1sYXllciBmcmFnbWVudGF0aW9uIHRvIGF2b2lkIElQIGZy YWdtZW50YXRpb24uDQo+Pj4gDQo+Pj4gKHRoYXQncyBzZWdtZW50YXRpb24uLi4gIEkga25vdy4p DQo+Pj4gDQo+Pj4+PiAoYW5kIHVzZSB0aGUgc2VnbWVudGF0aW9uDQo+Pj4+PiBwcm92aWRlZCBi eSBkcmFmdC1pZXRmLWNvcmUtYmxvY2sgaW5zdGVhZCk7IHRoZSBsYXR0ZXIgaGFzIHBlci1zZWdt ZW50DQo+Pj4+PiByZWxpYWJpbGl0eSAoYWNrbm93bGVkZ2VtZW50cyBhbmQgcmV0cmFuc21pdHMp LiAgIERUTFMgbWF5IHJlcXVpcmUNCj4+Pj4+IGZyYWdtZW50YXRpb24gZHVyaW5nIGl0cyBoYW5k c2hha2U7IHRoaXMgaXMgbWl0aWdhdGVkIGlmIHlvdSBjYW4gdXNlIGENCj4+Pj4+IFBTSyAoc3lt bWV0cmljKSBvciwgaWYgeW91IG5lZWQgYXN5bW1ldHJpYywgRUNDLWJhc2VkIGNpcGhlcnN1aXRl LCB3aGljaA0KPj4+Pj4gYWxsb3dzIHRoZSBwYWNrZXRzIHRvIHN0YXkgd2VsbCBiZWxvdyAxMjgw IGJ5dGVzLg0KPj4+PiANCj4+Pj4gUmlnaHQuIFNvIHRoZSBhcHAgbGF5ZXIgY2hvcHMgdGhlIG1l c3NhZ2UgaW50byA8MTI4MCBieXRlIHBpZWNlcywgYW5kIG9uZQ0KPj4+PiBvZiB0aGVtIGlzIGxv c3QuLi4/DQo+Pj4gDQo+Pj4gRWFjaCBvZiB0aG9zZSBzZWdtZW50cyAoImJsb2NrcyIpIGlzIChh Y3R1YWxseSwgY2FuIGJlLCBidXQgeW91IGRvIHdhbnQNCj4+PiB0byBkbyB0aGlzIHdpdGggdGhl IGJsb2NrLXdpc2UgcHJvdG9jb2wpIHRyYW5zbWl0dGVkIHJlbGlhYmx5LCBzbyBpdA0KPj4+IGRv ZXNuJ3QgZ2V0IGxvc3QuDQo+PiANCj4+IE9LLCBzbyBJIHRoaW5rIHRoYXQgYSBjb3VwbGUgb2Yg c2VudGVuY2VzIGluIGRyYWZ0LXByaXRpa2luLWNvYXAtYm9vdHN0cmFwDQo+PiBjb3VsZCBjbGFy aWZ5IGFsbCB0aGF0Lg0KPiANCj4gVGhhbmsgeW91LiBXZSBjYW4gbWFrZSB0aGF0IGhhcHBlbiwN Cg0KVGhlIHJlbGV2YW50IHRleHQgYXBwZWFycyB0byBiZSB0aGF0IENvQVAgW1JGQzcyNTJdIHM0 LjIgQ29uZmlybWFibGUgYW5kIG5vbi1Db25maXJtYWJsZSBtZXNzYWdlcy4gRHJhZnQtaWV0Zi1j b3JlLWJsb2NrIHJlZmVyZW5jZXMgdGhpcyBpbiBzMSAidXNpbmcgTm9uLWNvbmZpcm1hYmxlIHJl cXVlc3RzIHdpdGhpbiBibG9jay13aXNlIHRyYW5zZmVycyBvdXRzaWRlIHRoZSB1c2UgY2FzZSBv ZiANClNlY3Rpb24gMi44IHdvdWxkIGVzY2FsYXRlIHRoZSBvdmVyYWxsIG5vbi1kZWxpdmVyeSBw cm9iYWJpbGl0eeKAnS4gRWZmZWN0aXZlbHkgQ29BUCwgYW5kIHRoZW4gY29yZS1ibG9jaywgYWRk cmVzcyB0aGlzIGlzc3VlIHNvIHdlIGRvbuKAmXQgbmVlZCB0byBzYXkgYW55dGhpbmcgYWRkaXRp b25hbC4gV2UgY291bGQgbWFuZGF0ZSDigJhDb25maXJtYWJsZeKAmSBtb3JlIHNvIHRoYW4gaXMg aW5kaWNhdGVkIGluIGNvcmUtYmxvY2suIA0KDQotIG1heA0KDQo+IA0KPiAtIG1heA0KPiANCj4g DQo+PiANCj4+IFRoYW5rcw0KPj4gICBCcmlhbg0KPj4gDQo+Pj4gR3LDvMOfZSwgQ2Fyc3Rlbg0K PiANCj4gX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCj4g QW5pbWEtYm9vdHN0cmFwIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdA0KPiBBbmltYS1ib290c3RyYXBAaWV0Zi5vcmcN Cj4gaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9hbmltYS1ib290c3RyYXAN Cg0K From nobody Mon Jul 18 01:53:17 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima-bootstrap@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima-bootstrap@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B026312D14D for ; 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([2001:67c:370:176:28cc:dc4c:9703:6781]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id m11sm974649qke.36.2016.07.18.01.53.10 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 18 Jul 2016 01:53:13 -0700 (PDT) To: "Max Pritikin (pritikin)" References: <3A2F4C70-4960-4592-9314-6EC53B53CC94@cisco.com> <5d5623cd-fe4b-e443-da5d-6a43ffb9b5c6@gmail.com> <57810029.2070408@tzi.org> <17d1c08e-e9c6-d017-58ba-85989d56273d@gmail.com> <5781531A.1080702@tzi.org> <729980b6-767a-b675-1874-5c8e1fefd025@gmail.com> <8D35379D-678D-4293-93E4-150253AE46CE@cisco.com> <930872E1-2025-4EA5-B394-1991754216EE@cisco.com> From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: University of Auckland Message-ID: Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2016 20:53:09 +1200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.2.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <930872E1-2025-4EA5-B394-1991754216EE@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Cc: Carsten Bormann , "anima-bootstrap@ietf.org" , "Panos Kampanakis \(pkampana\)" Subject: Re: [Anima-bootstrap] bootstrap over CoAP X-BeenThere: anima-bootstrap@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Mailing list for the bootstrap design team of the ANIMA WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2016 08:53:17 -0000 Regards Brian Carpenter (Don't blame me, I voted Remain.) On 17/07/2016 22:19, Max Pritikin (pritikin) wrote: >=20 >> On Jul 10, 2016, at 7:14 PM, Max Pritikin (pritikin) wrote: >> >>> >>> On Jul 9, 2016, at 11:33 PM, Brian E Carpenter wrote: >>> >>> On 10/07/2016 07:40, Carsten Bormann wrote: >>>>>> I'm not sure I understood that part of the draft*), but generally = CoAP >>>>>> is designed so you can avoid fragmentation=20 >>>>> >>>>> That isn't what the draft seems to say, though. However, it's clear= ly talking >>>>> about application-layer fragmentation to avoid IP fragmentation. >>>> >>>> (that's segmentation... I know.) >>>> >>>>>> (and use the segmentation >>>>>> provided by draft-ietf-core-block instead); the latter has per-seg= ment >>>>>> reliability (acknowledgements and retransmits). DTLS may require= >>>>>> fragmentation during its handshake; this is mitigated if you can u= se a >>>>>> PSK (symmetric) or, if you need asymmetric, ECC-based ciphersuite,= which >>>>>> allows the packets to stay well below 1280 bytes. >>>>> >>>>> Right. So the app layer chops the message into <1280 byte pieces, a= nd one >>>>> of them is lost...? >>>> >>>> Each of those segments ("blocks") is (actually, can be, but you do w= ant >>>> to do this with the block-wise protocol) transmitted reliably, so it= >>>> doesn't get lost. >>> >>> OK, so I think that a couple of sentences in draft-pritikin-coap-boot= strap >>> could clarify all that. >> >> Thank you. We can make that happen, >=20 > The relevant text appears to be that CoAP [RFC7252] s4.2 Confirmable an= d non-Confirmable messages. Draft-ietf-core-block references this in s1 "= using Non-confirmable requests within block-wise transfers outside the us= e case of=20 > Section 2.8 would escalate the overall non-delivery probability=E2=80=9D= =2E Effectively CoAP, and then core-block, address this issue so we don=E2= =80=99t need to say anything additional. We could mandate =E2=80=98Confir= mable=E2=80=99 more so than is indicated in core-block.=20 I agree that you don't need to add anything normative. I still think it w= ould help the reader to point out that integrity and loss recovery are provide= d by this mechanism, because most people think of UDP as not providing thos= e properties. Brian >=20 > - max >=20 >> >> - max >> >> >>> >>> Thanks >>> Brian >>> >>>> Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Anima-bootstrap mailing list >> Anima-bootstrap@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/anima-bootstrap >=20 From nobody Mon Jul 25 08:44:41 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima-bootstrap@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima-bootstrap@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B01F12D7B8 for ; Mon, 25 Jul 2016 08:44:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.188 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.188 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-1.287, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4o1AyrCIe1PF for ; Mon, 25 Jul 2016 08:44:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0275912D11A for ; Mon, 25 Jul 2016 08:44:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.21]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 316F020183 for ; Mon, 25 Jul 2016 11:54:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from obiwan.sandelman.ca (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8666638BE for ; Mon, 25 Jul 2016 11:44:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: anima-bootstrap@ietf.org X-Attribution: mcr X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.6+dev; GNU Emacs 24.5.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: [Anima-bootstrap] calendar of meetings over summer X-BeenThere: anima-bootstrap@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Mailing list for the bootstrap design team of the ANIMA WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 15:44:39 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Max will be AFK for the next three weeks, I think he said. I propose to cancel the phone call on July 26, and on August 9. We will proceed on August 2 with a lighter agenda, possibly none. The next full call will be August 16, 23, and 30th. -- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1 iQEVAwUBV5Yz4YCLcPvd0N1lAQKOfgf/eGPF/i5F8xrOG3klxi05BesAbzNy7/bb Q78lkpu3bklWRjOxSpP2xAxzflRg/ZqGYF6w6DjretSBKyqSOcEUAg0XUZAf1NNh j6frNUvv+EmshqNq8+2KGL15xEz3Jhec38Sk8fpxe3dgP66NkGryT3SudCvn/oE3 9MrEnEw3mwjHGs7u0e2SVlhMH5qKCeT9oqotyruaabVjXjhocTx+YyUzpI9i+Qec o4oF2xbhEEfs2veTqQeYWnlGxMV2GK+9S6D3WrGp+GKq0WXA7mpz+8s0YA3ZRzMh y0Uygt0Ti3WVPXpMgu2BcE/JjeEqG7Muh8dBUB2eOW0HIwlxIqGTbw== =ZwZM -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Tue Jul 26 05:39:17 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima-bootstrap@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima-bootstrap@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63EDD12D7BD for ; Tue, 26 Jul 2016 05:39:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -15.808 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-15.808 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-1.287, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yyrIdxX0AMjq for ; Tue, 26 Jul 2016 05:39:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alln-iport-2.cisco.com (alln-iport-2.cisco.com [173.37.142.89]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ABF8712D7AA for ; Tue, 26 Jul 2016 05:39:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=1198; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1469536747; x=1470746347; h=date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references: mime-version:in-reply-to; bh=nVvKWrdw/ZrBqFMQk5k7feqXsi4dHd8GNBupFRolbKU=; b=J9yB3DKBjLQSAZSRq424G7PtLvSUg60dlf1foAKHlEsceiNuMLqxsCYQ DhHesyWSfBIGoRYzBBFOWI8c0rV58gR2luu8l9FvX4hJcVh34Tm7v7OYp NDxpDfLcWG1bx4yarqhVQqNc0UJkEnh4wIeOSN2tyY4u9++zR8idqeW5L k=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0C3BAAGWZdX/40NJK1egz9WfLh6gX0kg?= =?us-ascii?q?kKDNwKBNjgUAQEBAQEBAV0nQQ4BhA0BBQEBODQLBQsLGAklDwUTNhOIMQ63OwE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBARcFineKGwWIFIYBdT+JaI5xCo8/jC2DeB42g?= =?us-ascii?q?hAcgWwcMoJthBgEgUABAQE?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.28,424,1464652800"; d="scan'208";a="300981839" Received: from alln-core-8.cisco.com ([173.36.13.141]) by alln-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 26 Jul 2016 12:39:07 +0000 Received: from mcast-linux1.cisco.com (mcast-linux1.cisco.com [172.27.244.121]) by alln-core-8.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id u6QCd6gK012218 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 26 Jul 2016 12:39:06 GMT Received: from mcast-linux1.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by mcast-linux1.cisco.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u6QCd6uQ018859; Tue, 26 Jul 2016 05:39:06 -0700 Received: (from eckert@localhost) by mcast-linux1.cisco.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/Submit) id u6QCd6Tu018857; Tue, 26 Jul 2016 05:39:06 -0700 Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2016 05:39:06 -0700 From: Toerless Eckert To: Michael Richardson Message-ID: <20160726123906.GV7377@cisco.com> References: <23411.1469461476@obiwan.sandelman.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <23411.1469461476@obiwan.sandelman.ca> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.2i Archived-At: Cc: anima-bootstrap@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Anima-bootstrap] calendar of meetings over summer X-BeenThere: anima-bootstrap@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Mailing list for the bootstrap design team of the ANIMA WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2016 12:39:16 -0000 Thanks for planning. Sounds good. I've cancelled Mtg today, we can see if we want to cancel the 9th when we meet on the 2nd. I'd love to close on the issue of encoding the ACP parameters in the certificate, and you had suggested to do something different from what's in the draft. Would be great if you had some idea for August 2th. I am primarily looking for some idea how we would recognize an ACP address/domain-name if there are also other address/domain-name AltName entries. Cheers Toerless On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 11:44:36AM -0400, Michael Richardson wrote: > > Max will be AFK for the next three weeks, I think he said. > I propose to cancel the phone call on July 26, and on August 9. > We will proceed on August 2 with a lighter agenda, possibly none. > > The next full call will be August 16, 23, and 30th. > > > -- > Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works > -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- > > > > _______________________________________________ > Anima-bootstrap mailing list > Anima-bootstrap@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/anima-bootstrap -- --- Toerless Eckert, eckert@cisco.com From nobody Tue Jul 26 05:48:30 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima-bootstrap@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima-bootstrap@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78D0D12D7F3 for ; Tue, 26 Jul 2016 05:48:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -15.806 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-15.806 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-1.287, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5, WEIRD_PORT=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BFzG2nn2JkBD for ; Tue, 26 Jul 2016 05:48:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-8.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-8.cisco.com [173.37.86.79]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9B7C112D78F for ; Tue, 26 Jul 2016 05:38:26 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=8465; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1469536706; x=1470746306; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version; bh=Lb5Ue8lVbUUf09scDK3OHXkHmWG8oG7Vqfz6XpQyiFY=; b=TvArUbD/EzUOU6q1/zrYKzos0q/ItyDetIC8KoyMQ5ULfSil+JjULn0B gHN/apYI4dw9qhY8wYPw4vuwlW1pSdYWFnWH3DLCOhin02mEdhDyC1hxa kgIxk2TAZSijxCRHlg0LBJX6b5SBlTXzOgDyStWQc0mR+pjlUWhaMOi/x c=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0AjBACoWJdX/5hdJa1egnFOVnwBBbNvh?= =?us-ascii?q?QWBfSaFGH2BGjgUAQEBAQEBAV0nhGMjaAEMKRUCBDAmAQQBGogpDqlgjVsBAQE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQEEAQEBAQEBARIOj3aCQoJaBYgUhzWJaAGGF4hcgkGNBZAkAR42ghAcgUxvh?= =?us-ascii?q?wQEQX8BAQE?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.28,424,1464652800"; d="scan'208,217";a="128273917" Received: from rcdn-core-1.cisco.com ([173.37.93.152]) by rcdn-iport-8.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 26 Jul 2016 12:38:25 +0000 Received: from XCH-RCD-008.cisco.com (xch-rcd-008.cisco.com [173.37.102.18]) by rcdn-core-1.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id u6QCcPj1016919 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 26 Jul 2016 12:38:25 GMT Received: from xch-rcd-003.cisco.com (173.37.102.13) by XCH-RCD-008.cisco.com (173.37.102.18) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1210.3; Tue, 26 Jul 2016 07:38:24 -0500 Received: from xch-rcd-003.cisco.com ([173.37.102.13]) by XCH-RCD-003.cisco.com ([173.37.102.13]) with mapi id 15.00.1210.000; Tue, 26 Jul 2016 07:38:24 -0500 From: "Toerless Eckert (eckert)" To: "Max Pritikin (pritikin)" , "Jason Coleman (colemaj)" , "mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca" , "ietf@sandeep.de" , "Michael Behringer (mbehring)" , "alper.yegin@yegin.org" , "jiangsheng@huawei.com" , "leo.liubing@huawei.com" , "brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com" , "kwatsen@juniper.net" , "anima-bootstrap@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: NEW Weekly anima-bootstrap meeting Thread-Index: AdGharwv3p1TavlCl0mO5eQKnUzpDA== Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2016 12:38:24 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.32.225.78] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_c6bb9a177f254581835baa911c948ba1XCHRCD003ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: [Anima-bootstrap] Canceled: NEW Weekly anima-bootstrap meeting X-BeenThere: anima-bootstrap@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Mailing list for the bootstrap design team of the ANIMA WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2016 12:48:28 -0000 --_000_c6bb9a177f254581835baa911c948ba1XCHRCD003ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cancelled by suggestion of MichaelR. MichaelB also on PTO. Cheers Toerless >From the doodle poll, we have a winner (all folks who entered are green): Tue 5 PM MET: http://doodle.com/poll/m2nh9zp27575sz3m#table Etherpad: http://etherpad.tools.ietf.org:9000/p/anima-boostrapping?useMonospaceFont= =3Dtrue (note typo in boostrapping) I did not have an ietf webex account, so for now I did create a webex on th= e Cisco site. This has the benefit that telephony is free (with callbacks).= Just one of the four list members from cisco needs to be present. If this = is an issue, I'll change to IETF webex (I requested an account right now). Timezone is set to MET, so for us folks in the US, there will be some hicku= p during the weeks in March/November when EU/US do not switch the same time= , hope this is ok, else I can change to US timezone. --_000_c6bb9a177f254581835baa911c948ba1XCHRCD003ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Cancelled by suggestion of MichaelR. MichaelB also on PTO.

Cheers
    Toerless



From= the doodle poll, we have a winner (all folks who entered are green):

Tue = 5 PM MET: http://doodle.com/poll/m2nh9zp27575sz3m#table


Ethe= rpad:

http= ://etherpad.tools.ietf.org:9000/p/anima-boostrapping?useMonospaceFont=3Dtru= e

(not= e typo in boostrapping)


I di= d not have an ietf webex account, so for now I did create a webex on the Ci= sco site. This has the benefit that telephony is free (with callbacks). Jus= t one of the four list members from cisco needs to be present. If this is an issue, I’ll change to IETF = webex (I requested an account right now).


Time= zone is set to MET, so for us folks in the US, there will be some hickup du= ring the weeks in March/November when EU/US do not switch the same time, ho= pe this is ok, else I can change to US timezone.




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