From stpeter@stpeter.im Wed Feb 2 08:29:04 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: clouds@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: clouds@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44FA63A6D7B for ; Wed, 2 Feb 2011 08:29:04 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.586 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.586 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.013, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id B6+psfqi1tGw for ; Wed, 2 Feb 2011 08:29:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from stpeter.im (stpeter.im [207.210.219.233]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF64C3A6D78 for ; Wed, 2 Feb 2011 08:28:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from squire.local (dsl-251-175.dynamic-dsl.frii.net [216.17.251.175]) (Authenticated sender: stpeter) by stpeter.im (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 89E3B400F6 for ; Wed, 2 Feb 2011 09:49:11 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <4D498711.2050003@stpeter.im> Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2011 09:32:17 -0700 From: Peter Saint-Andre User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; en-US; rv:1.9.2.13) Gecko/20101207 Thunderbird/3.1.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "clouds@ietf.org" X-Enigmail-Version: 1.1.1 OpenPGP: url=http://www.saint-andre.com/me/stpeter.asc Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="------------ms030803050900090200060901" Subject: [clouds] Cloud-APPS BoF request and list status X-BeenThere: clouds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Clouds pre-BOF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2011 16:29:04 -0000 This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms030803050900090200060901 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Folks, during yesterday's BoF Coordination Call, the joint IAB and IESG decided to reject the request for a "Cloud-APPS" Birds of a Feather (BoF) session at IETF 80 in Prague. In essence, numerous IAB and IESG members expressed concerns about the lack of a clearly defined engineering problem that would be appropriate for solving within the limited scope of an IETF working group. Furthermore, many IAB and IESG members also are not confident that the lack of a clearly defined engineering problem can be overcome on this list, given (a) the unfocused nature of the discussions here and (b) the overly broad topic (anything to do with "clouds"). Therefore, as one of the Area Directors for the Applications Area (under which the clouds@ietf.org list is slotted), I shall ask the IETF Secretariat to close this list. I (or other IESG/IAB members) might be open to starting a new list in the future devoted to a specific engineering topic (e.g., a virtual desktop protocol). However, before starting such a list I for one would need to see that the proponents of such work have learned some of the lessons that knowledgeable people with IETF experience have been trying to impart to folks on this list over the last year, including: 1. Focus on a problem statement and proposed charter, not on early solution work or wide-ranging surveys. 2. Focus on protocols, not on services, frameworks, or architectures. 3. Focus on what protocols you can reuse, what protocols you need to extend, and what protocols you might need to invent from scratch. 4. Focus on engineering in a 12- to 18-month time horizon. 5. Focus on a modular approach, identifying modules that (mostly) fit into one IETF area. When working groups get formed at the IETF, it's usually because the proponents have been focused in the ways just described. As mentioned, one of the primary concerns about the clouds list has been the unfocused nature of the discussions. Although some IAB and IESG members appear to agree that cloud computing presents an interesting and important deployment scenario, IETF people are engineers and tend to focus on engineering problems. It's not enough to say "we need to do this work because it's cloud-related"; it's better to say "here is an interesting and important engineering problem that just happens to arise in cloud computing deployment scenarios". Once you've gotten that far, you really need to demonstrate the following (to quote RFC 5434): - there is a problem that needs solving, and the IETF is the right group to attempt solving it. - there is a critical mass of participants willing to work on the problem (e.g., write drafts, review drafts, etc.). - the scope of the problem is well defined and understood, that is, people generally understand what the WG will work on (and what it won't) and what its actual deliverables will be. - there is agreement that the specific deliverables (i.e., proposed documents) are the right set. - it is believed that the WG has a reasonable probability of having success (i.e., in completing the deliverables in its charter in a timely fashion). That is a relatively simple checklist, but over the past year there has been very little progress toward completing those tasks. Rather than leave this list open indefinitely, it seems more appropriate to close the list and encourage folks who are interested in engineering problems that happen to arise in cloud computing deployment scenarios to (a) do some hard thinking, (b) continue to write Internet-Drafts if they so desire, and (c) perhaps work to propose a very tightly defined working group at some point in the future. Continuing to flail about is not productive for the proponents, for people who are currently serving in IETF leadership roles (IESG and IAB members), or for IETF participants as a whole. If you have any questions regarding rejection of the BoF request or closing of this list, please let me know. Peter Saint-Andre, as co-AD of the Applications Area --------------ms030803050900090200060901 Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIITzjCC BjQwggQcoAMCAQICASMwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQELBQAwfTELMAkGA1UEBhMCSUwxFjAUBgNVBAoT DVN0YXJ0Q29tIEx0ZC4xKzApBgNVBAsTIlNlY3VyZSBEaWdpdGFsIENlcnRpZmljYXRlIFNp Z25pbmcxKTAnBgNVBAMTIFN0YXJ0Q29tIENlcnRpZmljYXRpb24gQXV0aG9yaXR5MB4XDTA3 MTAyNDIxMDMzM1oXDTE3MTAyNDIxMDMzM1owgYwxCzAJBgNVBAYTAklMMRYwFAYDVQQKEw1T dGFydENvbSBMdGQuMSswKQYDVQQLEyJTZWN1cmUgRGlnaXRhbCBDZXJ0aWZpY2F0ZSBTaWdu aW5nMTgwNgYDVQQDEy9TdGFydENvbSBDbGFzcyAzIFByaW1hcnkgSW50ZXJtZWRpYXRlIENs aWVudCBDQTCCASIwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEBBQADggEPADCCAQoCggEBALmjSW4SPiDKlAinvVeL ZOVfItiuP1aRHL530E7QUc9icCwL33+PH+Js1HAh8CgWFl34sOxx1FJyS/C4VLPRsqDfP72j 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From vumip1@gmail.com Thu Feb 10 09:45:53 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: clouds@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: clouds@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8B803A6A5F for ; Thu, 10 Feb 2011 09:45:53 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QrytmqF6w3HI for ; Thu, 10 Feb 2011 09:45:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-yw0-f44.google.com (mail-yw0-f44.google.com [209.85.213.44]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DE023A6A58 for ; Thu, 10 Feb 2011 09:45:52 -0800 (PST) Received: by ywk9 with SMTP id 9so785063ywk.31 for ; Thu, 10 Feb 2011 09:46:04 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=vxu5DuO4mW5dRWYDrot/vXxxo+vRPJtuYFKbehMruE4=; b=d+LVQK9dvSvCtnYGGp/biADUkOsc2PGm4lVTv3xWCOq67tUvvNF6PWJT3aP6Z/lBiD tRIZPIsWL7NDtbwibR52YTCJZBpfhc0ajGq+de1c19KSfVEM7OM2JedxQAKOkc5OPg0i 3oH9P6Tb1h5JVwX+my08KOC7EPJUFD39/E84Q= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; b=XJg3kkmDhMQZru/H3w3wRB0Ly4gTPx5RRY2p5Nqt6cFqZJpYWvWx8gEp9SJDZz0bIj L9cKFPa6tECgK5zzKzeci3An8DIjOdg+WwA3xBG9Ji/JAu8VNe70147XEDOxNIChZjHF Du6gGQWyG22EXTz7uQKdpIozJ690MsiY22DjA= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.150.135.8 with SMTP id i8mr3801416ybd.52.1297359963405; Thu, 10 Feb 2011 09:46:03 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.147.171.9 with HTTP; Thu, 10 Feb 2011 09:46:03 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <4D498711.2050003@stpeter.im> References: <4D498711.2050003@stpeter.im> Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 12:46:03 -0500 Message-ID: From: Bhumip Khasnabish To: Peter Saint-Andre Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cd59cdcc3beb5049bf127a0 Cc: "clouds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [clouds] Cloud-APPS BoF request and list status X-BeenThere: clouds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Clouds pre-BOF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 17:45:54 -0000 --000e0cd59cdcc3beb5049bf127a0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Peter, Per your suggestion, we plan to focus virtual desktop infrastructure (VDI) and related materials only going forward. We'll review these and related contributions during our scheduled call (sending DIN and PC soon) at 10 AM ET tomorrow (Friday-11-Feb.-2011). Would appreciate if you can join the call. Thanks. Best Regards. Bhumip Khasnabish (Mobile:+001-781-752-8003, vumip1@gmail.com) http://www.linkedin.com/in/bhumipkhasnabish On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 11:32 AM, Peter Saint-Andre wrote: > Folks, during yesterday's BoF Coordination Call, the joint IAB and IESG > decided to reject the request for a "Cloud-APPS" Birds of a Feather > (BoF) session at IETF 80 in Prague. > > In essence, numerous IAB and IESG members expressed concerns about the > lack of a clearly defined engineering problem that would be appropriate > for solving within the limited scope of an IETF working group. > > Furthermore, many IAB and IESG members also are not confident that the > lack of a clearly defined engineering problem can be overcome on this > list, given (a) the unfocused nature of the discussions here and (b) the > overly broad topic (anything to do with "clouds"). > > Therefore, as one of the Area Directors for the Applications Area (under > which the clouds@ietf.org list is slotted), I shall ask the IETF > Secretariat to close this list. > > I (or other IESG/IAB members) might be open to starting a new list in > the future devoted to a specific engineering topic (e.g., a virtual > desktop protocol). However, before starting such a list I for one would > need to see that the proponents of such work have learned some of the > lessons that knowledgeable people with IETF experience have been trying > to impart to folks on this list over the last year, including: > > 1. Focus on a problem statement and proposed charter, not on early > solution work or wide-ranging surveys. > > 2. Focus on protocols, not on services, frameworks, or architectures. > > 3. Focus on what protocols you can reuse, what protocols you need to > extend, and what protocols you might need to invent from scratch. > > 4. Focus on engineering in a 12- to 18-month time horizon. > > 5. Focus on a modular approach, identifying modules that (mostly) fit > into one IETF area. > > When working groups get formed at the IETF, it's usually because the > proponents have been focused in the ways just described. As mentioned, > one of the primary concerns about the clouds list has been the unfocused > nature of the discussions. > > Although some IAB and IESG members appear to agree that cloud computing > presents an interesting and important deployment scenario, IETF people > are engineers and tend to focus on engineering problems. It's not enough > to say "we need to do this work because it's cloud-related"; it's better > to say "here is an interesting and important engineering problem that > just happens to arise in cloud computing deployment scenarios". Once > you've gotten that far, you really need to demonstrate the following (to > quote RFC 5434): > > - there is a problem that needs solving, and the IETF is the right > group to attempt solving it. > > - there is a critical mass of participants willing to work on the > problem (e.g., write drafts, review drafts, etc.). > > - the scope of the problem is well defined and understood, that > is, people generally understand what the WG will work on (and > what it won't) and what its actual deliverables will be. > > - there is agreement that the specific deliverables (i.e., > proposed documents) are the right set. > > - it is believed that the WG has a reasonable probability of > having success (i.e., in completing the deliverables in its > charter in a timely fashion). > > That is a relatively simple checklist, but over the past year there has > been very little progress toward completing those tasks. Rather than > leave this list open indefinitely, it seems more appropriate to close > the list and encourage folks who are interested in engineering problems > that happen to arise in cloud computing deployment scenarios to (a) do > some hard thinking, (b) continue to write Internet-Drafts if they so > desire, and (c) perhaps work to propose a very tightly defined working > group at some point in the future. Continuing to flail about is not > productive for the proponents, for people who are currently serving in > IETF leadership roles (IESG and IAB members), or for IETF participants > as a whole. > > If you have any questions regarding rejection of the BoF request or > closing of this list, please let me know. > > Peter Saint-Andre, as co-AD of the Applications Area > > > > > _______________________________________________ > clouds mailing list > clouds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/clouds > > --000e0cd59cdcc3beb5049bf127a0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Peter,
=A0
Per your suggestion, we plan to focus virtual desktop infrastructure (= VDI) and related materials only going forward.
=A0
We'll review these and related contributions during our scheduled = call (sending DIN and PC soon) at 10 AM ET tomorrow (Friday-11-Feb.-2011).= =A0Would appreciate if you can=A0join the call.
=A0
Thanks.
Best Regards.

Bhumip Khasnabish (Mobile:+001-781-752-8003, vumip1@gmail.com)
= h= ttp://www.linkedin.com/in/bhumipkhasnabish

=A0
On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 11:32 AM, Peter Saint-And= re <stpeter@stpe= ter.im> wrote:
Folks, during yesterday's Bo= F Coordination Call, the joint IAB and IESG
decided to reject the reques= t for a "Cloud-APPS" Birds of a Feather
(BoF) session at IETF 80 in Prague.

In essence, numerous IAB and IES= G members expressed concerns about the
lack of a clearly defined enginee= ring problem that would be appropriate
for solving within the limited sc= ope of an IETF working group.

Furthermore, many IAB and IESG members also are not confident that the<= br>lack of a clearly defined engineering problem can be overcome on thislist, given (a) the unfocused nature of the discussions here and (b) the overly broad topic (anything to do with "clouds").

Therefo= re, as one of the Area Directors for the Applications Area (under
which = the clouds@ietf.org list is slotted)= , I shall ask the IETF
Secretariat to close this list.

I (or other IESG/IAB members) might = be open to starting a new list in
the future devoted to a specific engin= eering topic (e.g., a virtual
desktop protocol). However, before startin= g such a list I for one would
need to see that the proponents of such work have learned some of the
le= ssons that knowledgeable people with IETF experience have been trying
to= impart to folks on this list over the last year, including:

1. Focu= s on a problem statement and proposed charter, not on early
solution work or wide-ranging surveys.

2. Focus on protocols, not on= services, frameworks, or architectures.

3. Focus on what protocols = you can reuse, what protocols you need to
extend, and what protocols you= might need to invent from scratch.

4. Focus on engineering in a 12- to 18-month time horizon.

5. Fo= cus on a modular approach, identifying modules that (mostly) fit
into on= e IETF area.

When working groups get formed at the IETF, it's us= ually because the
proponents have been focused in the ways just described. As mentioned,
o= ne of the primary concerns about the clouds list has been the unfocused
= nature of the discussions.

Although some IAB and IESG members appear= to agree that cloud computing
presents an interesting and important deployment scenario, IETF people
a= re engineers and tend to focus on engineering problems. It's not enough=
to say "we need to do this work because it's cloud-related&quo= t;; it's better
to say "here is an interesting and important engineering problem that<= br>just happens to arise in cloud computing deployment scenarios". Onc= e
you've gotten that far, you really need to demonstrate the followi= ng (to
quote RFC 5434):

=A0 - there is a problem that needs solving, and th= e IETF is the right
=A0 =A0 group to attempt solving it.

=A0 - th= ere is a critical mass of participants willing to work on the
=A0 =A0 pr= oblem (e.g., write drafts, review drafts, etc.).

=A0 - the scope of the problem is well defined and understood, that
= =A0 =A0 is, people generally understand what the WG will work on (and
= =A0 =A0 what it won't) and what its actual deliverables will be.
=A0 - there is agreement that the specific deliverables (i.e.,
=A0 =A0 proposed documents) are the right set.

=A0 - it is believed = that the WG has a reasonable probability of
=A0 =A0 having success (i.e.= , in completing the deliverables in its
=A0 =A0 charter in a timely fash= ion).

That is a relatively simple checklist, but over the past year there has
= been very little progress toward completing those tasks. Rather than
lea= ve this list open indefinitely, it seems more appropriate to close
the l= ist and encourage folks who are interested in engineering problems
that happen to arise in cloud computing deployment scenarios to (a) do
s= ome hard thinking, (b) continue to write Internet-Drafts if they so
desi= re, and (c) perhaps work to propose a very tightly defined working
group= at some point in the future. Continuing to flail about is not
productive for the proponents, for people who are currently serving in
I= ETF leadership roles (IESG and IAB members), or for IETF participants
as= a whole.

If you have any questions regarding rejection of the BoF r= equest or
closing of this list, please let me know.

Pe= ter Saint-Andre, as co-AD of the Applications Area



_______________________________________________
clouds mailing list clouds@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.= org/mailman/listinfo/clouds




=A0

=A0

--000e0cd59cdcc3beb5049bf127a0-- From vumip1@gmail.com Thu Feb 10 21:45:48 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: clouds@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: clouds@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD87E3A6B42 for ; Thu, 10 Feb 2011 21:45:48 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ee5v3y9moXJI for ; Thu, 10 Feb 2011 21:45:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-yi0-f44.google.com (mail-yi0-f44.google.com [209.85.218.44]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C6563A6B3F for ; Thu, 10 Feb 2011 21:45:46 -0800 (PST) Received: by yie19 with SMTP id 19so1037858yie.31 for ; Thu, 10 Feb 2011 21:46:00 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=Rz869vUhm6iUoKv1mZ8cNoTmAmyZ6qmtrv/vBXPfZV0=; b=jKLDMqgKKt9P6EYU46fwdE2dtBMYCU9aTIvT8YeluO+Pano25BLopP3wZuUhwaBmkA VqXEt6vC+2VSiDZpTAN4bSUzBPmd0DFZ4Eu0pcqsi9qILULRrVJJh7+nYVQ9fYTZ6/ML FL+RzBcPkuM0uY9Q27s85cj3N3NCqWmEuuRpA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=eL7dZ7C7STGvVG4PaQdQp7lbFnpIFs6R11uZhdgPkCHAl4i1YpLuHqaNlhiYAOKuYn gUlLB+y/RAJOEOZvH4xBBkuqg2pKqjbNVdL9PqIS5VD7h8Sr4VP+zF1nxD4nzktF7EEX Efc7C+U8WDMNW0kEz/+hEUWsFjxHx6BQRNgDs= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.150.135.8 with SMTP id i8mr133315ybd.52.1297403160251; Thu, 10 Feb 2011 21:46:00 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.147.171.9 with HTTP; Thu, 10 Feb 2011 21:46:00 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 00:46:00 -0500 Message-ID: From: Bhumip Khasnabish To: clouds@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cd59cdc7f4e46049bfb36f6 Subject: [clouds] Conf call on Friday [11-February-2011] at 10 AM US/NY time X-BeenThere: clouds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Clouds pre-BOF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 05:45:48 -0000 --000e0cd59cdc7f4e46049bfb36f6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Please plan to join a conf call on *Friday, 11-Feb.-2011 starting from 10 AM ET* (New York, USA time) to get updates on the Clouds initiatives/activities. [you may find the current NY/USA time (from your location) at the following URL: http://www.worldtimeserver.com/current_time_in_US-NY.aspx ]. Dial in number: *US Toll-free +1-866-710-5490 *If the toll-free number does not work, pls use *+001-203-875-8973* *Passcode: 204 1744* (Thanks to Mr. Ning So for providing the conf bridge). * * *Proposed Agenda:* * * 1. VEPC draft update -- Ning et al 2. CloudLog draft update -- Gene and Sam 3. Data Center Operations (DCOPS) proposal update -- Ross (with info fro= m Ron, if any) 4. draft-rfc-seamless-Cloud-masum-01.txt (27.1 KB) =96 Masum et al, *Network Abstraction for Enterprise and SP cl= ass Cloud: Seamless Cloud Abstraction and Interfaces * 5. Protocol Considerations for Workload Mobility in Clouds.txt (21.5 KB) - Masum et al, *Protocol Considerations for Workload Mobility in Clouds * 6. Karavettil-et-al-IETF-Cloud-Security-Framework-11Feb2011_v2.pdf (0.6 MB) =96 Suren et al, *updated cloud security framework (CSF) slides= * 7. draft-yokota-cloud-service-mobility-01.txt (42.0 KB) =96 Mr. Yokota et al, *Service Management for Virtualized Networks * 8. Virtual Desktop Infrastructure (VDI) Requirements and Survey update = =96 Mr. Wang and Mr. Ma 9. Cloud (client and network sides) APIs update - Sam 10. VRM update -- Mr Chu et al 11. VDI proposal expectations (further guidance) -- Peter Saint-Andre 12. VDI proposal development -- TBD 13. Any other topics? As always, all of the drafts and presentations are available at the following URL: http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/app/trac/wiki/Clouds *Next conf call* will be held on *Friday-18-February-2011** starting from 10 AM ET* (New York, USA time). *Many Thanks for Participation and Contributions.* Best Regards. Bhumip Khasnabish (Mobile:+001-781-752-8003, vumip1 at gmail.com) http://www.linkedin.com/in/bhumipkhasnabish --000e0cd59cdc7f4e46049bfb36f6 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
=A0
Please plan to join a conf call on
Friday, 11-Feb.-2011 starting from 10 AM ET (New York, USA time)

<= span style=3D"mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ascii= -font-family: Calibri; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font= : minor-latin; mso-hansi-theme-font: minor-latin">to get updates on the Clouds initiatives/activities.<= /font>

<= span style=3D"mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ascii= -font-family: Calibri; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font= : minor-latin; mso-hansi-theme-font: minor-latin">[you may find the current NY/USA time (from your location) at the = following URL:=A0=A0 http://www.worldtimeserver.com/current_time_in_US-NY.aspx= ].

<= span style=3D"mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ascii= -font-family: Calibri; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font= : minor-latin; mso-hansi-theme-font: minor-latin">
Dial in nu= mber: US Toll-free +1-866= -710-5490
If the toll-free number does not work, pls use +001-20= 3-875-8973
Passcode: 204 1744

<= font size=3D"3">(Thanks to Mr. Ning So for providing the con= f bridge).=

<= b style=3D"mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">=A0

<= b style=3D"mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">Proposed Agenda= :

<= b style=3D"mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">=A0

  1. VEPC draft update -- Ning et al
  2. CloudLog draft update -- Gene and Sam
  3. Data Center Operations (DCOPS) proposal update -- Ross (with= info from Ron, if any)
  4. draft-rfc-sea= mless-Cloud-masum-01.txt (27.1 KB) =96 Masum et al, Net= work Abstraction for Enterprise and SP class Cloud: Seamless Cloud Abstract= ion and Interfaces
  5. Protocol Considerations for Workload Mobility in Cloud= s.txt <= font face=3D"Calibri">(21.5 KB) - Masum = et al, Protocol Considerations for Workload Mobility in Clouds
  6. Karavettil-et-al-IETF-Cloud-Security-Framework-11Feb2011_v2.pd= f (0.6 MB) =96 Suren et al, = updated cloud security framework (CSF) slides
  7. draft-yo= kota-cloud-service-mobility-01.txt <= font face=3D"Calibri">(42.0 KB) =96 Mr. = Yokota et al, Service Management for Virtualized Networks
  8. Virtual Desktop= Infrastructure (VDI) Requirements and Survey update =96 Mr. Wang and Mr. M= a
  9. Cloud (client and network sides) APIs update - Sam=A0=
  10. VRM update -- Mr Chu et al
  11. VDI proposal expectations (further guidance) -- Peter Saint-Andre
  12. VDI proposal development -- =A0TBD
  13. Any other topics?

<= span style=3D"mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ascii= -font-family: Calibri; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font= : minor-latin; mso-hansi-theme-font: minor-latin">As always, all of the drafts and presentations are available at th= e following URL: http://tr= ac.tools.ietf.org/area/app/trac/wiki/Clouds

<= span style=3D"mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ascii= -font-family: Calibri; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font= : minor-latin; mso-hansi-theme-font: minor-latin">=A0

<= font size=3D"3">Next conf call will be held on =

<= font size=3D"3">Friday-18-February-2011 starting from 10 AM ET<= span style=3D"mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ascii= -font-family: Calibri; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font= : minor-latin; mso-hansi-theme-font: minor-latin"> (New York, USA time).

<= span style=3D"mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ascii= -font-family: Calibri; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font= : minor-latin; mso-hansi-theme-font: minor-latin">=A0

<= font size=3D"3">Many Thanks for Participation and Contributions.<= /p>

=A0
Best Regards.

Bhumip Khasnabish (Mobile:+001-781-752-8003, vumip1 at gmail.com)
http://www.linkedin.com/in/bhumipkh= asnabish

=A0

--000e0cd59cdc7f4e46049bfb36f6-- From ning.so@verizonbusiness.com Fri Feb 11 11:48:02 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: clouds@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: clouds@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5AA353A6A3E for ; Fri, 11 Feb 2011 11:48:02 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IcH0ZMTNghdw for ; Fri, 11 Feb 2011 11:47:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from ashesmtp02.verizonbusiness.com (ashesmtp02.verizonbusiness.com [198.4.8.166]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 127243A6A01 for ; Fri, 11 Feb 2011 11:47:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from omzismtp03.vzbi.com ([unknown] [165.122.46.170]) by firewall.verizonbusiness.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.03 32bit (built May 29 2009)) with ESMTP id <0LGG006OGXO9R290@firewall.verizonbusiness.com> for clouds@ietf.org; Fri, 11 Feb 2011 19:48:09 +0000 (GMT) Received: from omzismtp03.vzbi.com ([unknown] [127.0.0.1]) by omzismtp03.vzbi.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.03 32bit (built May 29 2009)) with SMTP id <0LGG0008XXO8YQ00@omzismtp03.vzbi.com> for clouds@ietf.org; Fri, 11 Feb 2011 19:48:08 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ASHSRV139.mcilink.com ([unknown] [153.39.68.165]) by omzismtp03.vzbi.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.03 32bit (built May 29 2009)) with ESMTP id <0LGG0004EXO8YG00@omzismtp03.vzbi.com> for clouds@ietf.org; Fri, 11 Feb 2011 19:48:08 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ASHEVS008.mcilink.com ([153.39.69.129]) by ASHSRV139.mcilink.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Fri, 11 Feb 2011 19:48:08 +0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CBCA24.9B11E4C5" Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 19:48:06 +0000 Message-id: <14584D6EE26B314187A4F68BA206060006933C32@ASHEVS008.mcilink.com> In-reply-to: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-topic: Thoughts on ClooudOPS Thread-index: AcvJrvve/wSb/dvNShOHz74F+sUVYAAbVqDg References: From: "So, Ning" To: clouds@ietf.org X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Feb 2011 19:48:08.0118 (UTC) FILETIME=[9B2C0D60:01CBCA24] Subject: [clouds] Thoughts on ClooudOPS X-BeenThere: clouds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Clouds pre-BOF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 19:48:02 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01CBCA24.9B11E4C5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bhumip and all, =20 As discussed in this morning's call, here are my personal views on the proposed CloudOPS WG and the related drafts. =20 Frameworks, high-level requirements, and best practices descriptions on cloud infrastructure that impact multiple IETF protocols under different areas and WGs, and/or protocols outside of IETF, belong to the CloudOPS WG. New protocols that impact multiple IETF protocols under different areas and WGs, and/or protocols outside of IETF, also belong to the CloudOPS WG. =20 ARMD WG's work is very focused and much needed, and I voiced my support for its establishment. However, I see difficulties in broadening its charter to make it a single and only default CloudOPS WG. All the non-ARMD related drafts will become distraction and cause confusion. =20 In my humble opinion, the following drafts belong to the CloudOPS WG. Many of them were presented at Cloud BoF in IETF79, and are in the process of getting updated for IETF80. Several are new submissions that are recently uploaded. I think what we have here is more than one and half hours of meeting time :-) I really do not want to inflict the pain on my ARMD friends. =20 =20 1. Cloud Reference Framework 2. Cloud Security Framework=20 3. VPN Extension for Cloud Services=20 4. Network Abstraction for Enterprise and SP Class Cloud=20 5. Protocol Considerations for Workload Mobility in Clouds=20 6. Service Management for Virtualized Cloud=20 7. Virtual Network Management Information Model 8. Network Probability Requirements and Models 9. Syslog Extension for Cloud Using Syslog Structured Data 10. Virtual Resource Management (VRM) in Clouds =20 =20 =20 Best regards, =20 Ning So Network Evolution Planning Verizon, Inc. (office) 972-729-7905 (Cell) 972-955-0914 =20 ________________________________ From: clouds-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:clouds-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Bhumip Khasnabish Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 11:46 PM To: clouds@ietf.org Subject: [clouds] Conf call on Friday [11-February-2011] at 10 AM US/NY time =20 =20 Please plan to join a conf call on=20 Friday, 11-Feb.-2011 starting from 10 AM ET (New York, USA time) to get updates on the Clouds initiatives/activities. [you may find the current NY/USA time (from your location) at the following URL: http://www.worldtimeserver.com/current_time_in_US-NY.aspx ].=20 Dial in number: US Toll-free +1-866-710-5490=20 If the toll-free number does not work, pls use +001-203-875-8973=20 Passcode: 204 1744 (Thanks to Mr. Ning So for providing the conf bridge). =20 Proposed Agenda: =20 1. VEPC draft update -- Ning et al 2. CloudLog draft update -- Gene and Sam 3. Data Center Operations (DCOPS) proposal update -- Ross (with info from Ron, if any) 4. draft-rfc-seamless-Cloud-masum-01.txt (27.1 KB) - Masum et al, Network Abstraction for Enterprise and SP class Cloud: Seamless Cloud Abstraction and Interfaces=20 5. Protocol Considerations for Workload Mobility in Clouds.txt (21.5 KB) - Masum et al, Protocol Considerations for Workload Mobility in Clouds=20 6. Karavettil-et-al-IETF-Cloud-Security-Framework-11Feb2011_v2.pdf (0.6 MB) - Suren et al, updated cloud security framework (CSF) slides=20 7. draft-yokota-cloud-service-mobility-01.txt (42.0 KB) - Mr. Yokota et al, Service Management for Virtualized Networks=20 8. Virtual Desktop Infrastructure (VDI) Requirements and Survey update - Mr. Wang and Mr. Ma 9. Cloud (client and network sides) APIs update - Sam=20 10. VRM update -- Mr Chu et al=20 11. VDI proposal expectations (further guidance) -- Peter Saint-Andre 12. VDI proposal development -- TBD=20 13. Any other topics? As always, all of the drafts and presentations are available at the following URL: http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/app/trac/wiki/Clouds =20 Next conf call will be held on=20 Friday-18-February-2011 starting from 10 AM ET (New York, USA time). =20 Many Thanks for Participation and Contributions. =20 Best Regards. Bhumip Khasnabish (Mobile:+001-781-752-8003, vumip1 at gmail.com ) http://www.linkedin.com/in/bhumipkhasnabish =20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01CBCA24.9B11E4C5 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Bhumip = and all,

 

As = discussed in this morning’s call, here are my personal views on the proposed = CloudOPS WG and the related drafts.

 

Frameworks, high-level requirements, and best practices descriptions on cloud infrastructure = that impact multiple IETF protocols under different areas and WGs, and/or = protocols outside of IETF, belong to the CloudOPS WG.   New protocols = that impact multiple IETF protocols under different areas and WGs, and/or = protocols outside of IETF, also belong to the CloudOPS = WG.

 

ARMD = WG’s work is very focused and much needed, and I voiced my support for its establishment.    However, I see difficulties in = broadening its charter to make it a single and only default CloudOPS WG.  All the non-ARMD related drafts will become distraction and cause = confusion.

 

In my = humble opinion, the following drafts belong to the CloudOPS WG. =   Many of them were presented at Cloud BoF in IETF79, and are in the process of = getting updated for IETF80.  Several are new submissions that are recently = uploaded.  I think what we have here is more than one and half hours of meeting = time J  I really do not want to inflict the pain on my ARMD = friends.  

 

  1. Cloud Reference = Framework
  2. Cloud Security Framework =
  3. VPN Extension for Cloud Services =
  4. Network Abstraction for Enterprise and SP Class Cloud =
  5. Protocol Considerations for Workload Mobility in = Clouds
  6. Service Management for Virtualized Cloud =
  7. Virtual Network Management Information = Model
  8. Network Probability Requirements and = Models
  9. Syslog Extension for Cloud Using Syslog Structured = Data
  10. Virtual Resource Management (VRM) in = Clouds

 

 

 

Best = regards,

 

Ning = So

Network Evolution Planning

Verizon, Inc.

(office) 972-729-7905

(Cell) = 972-955-0914

 

From: = clouds-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:clouds-bounces@ietf.org] On = Behalf Of Bhumip Khasnabish
Sent: Thursday, February = 10, 2011 11:46 PM
To: clouds@ietf.org
Subject: [clouds] Conf = call on Friday [11-February-2011] at 10 AM US/NY = time

 

 

Please plan to join a conf call on
Friday, 11-Feb.-2011 starting from = 10 AM ET (New York, = USA = time)

to get updates on the Clouds = initiatives/activities.

[you may find the current NY/USA time (from your location) at the following URL:   http://www.worldtimeserver.com/current_time_in_US-NY.as= px ].


Dial in number: = US Toll-free +1-866-710-5490
If the toll-free number does not work, pls use +001-203-875-8973
Passcode: 204 = 1744

(Thanks to = Mr. Ning So for providing the conf bridge).

 

Proposed = Agenda:

 

  1. VEPC draft update -- Ning et = al
  2. CloudLog draft update -- Gene and = Sam
  3. Data Center Operations (DCOPS) proposal = update -- Ross (with info from Ron, if any)
  4. draft-rfc-seamless-Cloud-masum-01.txt = (27.1 KB) – Masum et al, Network Abstraction for Enterprise and SP class Cloud: = Seamless Cloud Abstraction and Interfaces =
  5. Protocol Considerations for Workload Mobility in = Clouds.txt = (21.5 KB) - Masum et al, Protocol Considerations for Workload = Mobility in Clouds
  6. Karavettil-et-al-IETF-Cloud-Security-Framew= ork-11Feb2011_v2.pdf = (0.6 MB) – Suren et al, updated cloud security framework (CSF) = slides
  7. draft-yokota-cloud-service-mobility-01.txt<= /span> = (42.0 KB) – Mr. Yokota et al, = Service Management for Virtualized = Networks
  8. Virtual Desktop Infrastructure (VDI) Requirements and = Survey update – Mr. Wang and Mr. Ma
  9. Cloud (client and network sides) APIs = update - Sam 
  10. VRM update -- Mr Chu et al =
  11. VDI proposal expectations (further = guidance) -- Peter Saint-Andre
  12. VDI proposal development -- =  TBD =
  13. Any other = topics?

As always, all of the drafts and presentations are available at the = following URL: http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/app/trac/wiki/Clouds

 

Next = conf call will be held on =

Friday-18= -February-2011 = starting from 10 AM ET (New York, USA = time).

 

Many = Thanks for Participation and Contributions.

 

 

------_=_NextPart_001_01CBCA24.9B11E4C5-- From carlw@mcsr-labs.org Fri Feb 11 11:55:12 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: clouds@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: clouds@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A56FF3A6A3E for ; Fri, 11 Feb 2011 11:55:12 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FXKynnDcI7Q7 for ; Fri, 11 Feb 2011 11:55:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from xsmtp08.mail2web.com (xsmtp08.mail2web.com [168.144.250.208]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 359D33A6A01 for ; Fri, 11 Feb 2011 11:55:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.5.41.5] (helo=M2W105.mail2web.com) by xsmtp08.mail2web.com with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Pnz5O-0005vL-VA; Fri, 11 Feb 2011 14:55:26 -0500 Message-ID: <380-220112511195535345@M2W105.mail2web.com> X-Priority: 3 X-Originating-IP: 65-97-0-212 X-URL: http://mail2web.com/ From: "carlw@mcsr-labs.org" To: ning.so@verizonbusiness.com, clouds@ietf.org Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 14:55:35 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [clouds] Thoughts on ClooudOPS X-BeenThere: clouds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list Reply-To: carlw@mcsr-labs.org List-Id: Clouds pre-BOF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 19:55:12 -0000 Hi Bhumip, Thanks for the well-organized conference call that was nearly 90 minutes= today=2E It was very helpful and very structured and focused to the recommended goals and objectives=2E=20 I also agree with key discussion points and topics=2E I support the advancedment in this new working group of the Service Management for Virtualized Cloud as well=2E Carl Original Message: ----------------- From: So, Ning ning=2Eso@verizonbusiness=2Ecom Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 19:48:06 +0000 To: clouds@ietf=2Eorg Subject: [clouds] Thoughts on ClooudOPS Bhumip and all, =20 As discussed in this morning's call, here are my personal views on the proposed CloudOPS WG and the related drafts=2E =20 Frameworks, high-level requirements, and best practices descriptions on cloud infrastructure that impact multiple IETF protocols under different areas and WGs, and/or protocols outside of IETF, belong to the CloudOPS WG=2E New protocols that impact multiple IETF protocols under different areas and WGs, and/or protocols outside of IETF, also belong to the CloudOPS WG=2E =20 ARMD WG's work is very focused and much needed, and I voiced my support for its establishment=2E However, I see difficulties in broadening its charter to make it a single and only default CloudOPS WG=2E All the non-ARMD related drafts will become distraction and cause confusion=2E =20 In my humble opinion, the following drafts belong to the CloudOPS WG=2E Many of them were presented at Cloud BoF in IETF79, and are in the process of getting updated for IETF80=2E Several are new submissions that= are recently uploaded=2E I think what we have here is more than one and half hours of meeting time :-) I really do not want to inflict the pain on my ARMD friends=2E =20 =20 1=2E=09Cloud Reference Framework 2=2E=09Cloud Security Framework=20 3=2E=09VPN Extension for Cloud Services=20 4=2E=09Network Abstraction for Enterprise and SP Class Cloud=20 5=2E=09Protocol Considerations for Workload Mobility in Clouds=20 6=2E=09Service Management for Virtualized Cloud=20 7=2E=09Virtual Network Management Information Model 8=2E=09Network Probability Requirements and Models 9=2E=09Syslog Extension for Cloud Using Syslog Structured Data 10=2E=09Virtual Resource Management (VRM) in Clouds =20 =20 =20 Best regards, =20 Ning So Network Evolution Planning Verizon, Inc=2E (office) 972-729-7905 (Cell) 972-955-0914 =20 =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F From: clouds-bounces@ietf=2Eorg [mailto:clouds-bounces@ietf=2Eorg] On Beha= lf Of Bhumip Khasnabish Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 11:46 PM To: clouds@ietf=2Eorg Subject: [clouds] Conf call on Friday [11-February-2011] at 10 AM US/NY time =20 =20 Please plan to join a conf call on=20 Friday, 11-Feb=2E-2011 starting from 10 AM ET (New York, USA time) to get updates on the Clouds initiatives/activities=2E [you may find the current NY/USA time (from your location) at the following URL: http://www=2Eworldtimeserver=2Ecom/current=5Ftime=5Fin=5FUS-NY=2Easpx ]=2E= =20 Dial in number: US Toll-free +1-866-710-5490=20 If the toll-free number does not work, pls use +001-203-875-8973=20 Passcode: 204 1744 (Thanks to Mr=2E Ning So for providing the conf bridge)=2E =20 Proposed Agenda: =20 1=2E=09VEPC draft update -- Ning et al 2=2E=09CloudLog draft update -- Gene and Sam 3=2E=09Data Center Operations (DCOPS) proposal update -- Ross (with info from Ron, if any) 4=2E=09draft-rfc-seamless-Cloud-masum-01=2Etxt (27=2E1 KB) - Masum et al, Network Abstraction for Enterprise and SP class Cloud: Seamless Cloud Abstraction and Interfaces=20 5=2E=09Protocol Considerations for Workload Mobility in Clouds=2Etxt (21=2E5 KB) - Masum et al, Protocol Considerations for Workload Mobility in Clouds=20 6=2E=09Karavettil-et-al-IETF-Cloud-Security-Framework-11Feb2011=5Fv2=2Epdf= (0=2E6 M= B) - Suren et al, updated cloud security framework (CSF) slides=20 7=2E=09draft-yokota-cloud-service-mobility-01=2Etxt (42=2E0 KB) - Mr=2E Yokota et a= l, Service Management for Virtualized Networks=20 8=2E=09Virtual Desktop Infrastructure (VDI) Requirements and Survey update - Mr=2E Wang and Mr=2E Ma 9=2E=09Cloud (client and network sides) APIs update - Sam=20 10=2E=09VRM update -- Mr Chu et al=20 11=2E=09VDI proposal expectations (further guidance) -- Peter Saint-Andre 12=2E=09VDI proposal development -- TBD=20 13=2E=09Any other topics=3F As always, all of the drafts and presentations are available at the following URL: http://trac=2Etools=2Eietf=2Eorg/area/app/trac/wiki/Clouds =20 Next conf call will be held on=20 Friday-18-February-2011 starting from 10 AM ET (New York, USA time)=2E =20 Many Thanks for Participation and Contributions=2E =20 Best Regards=2E Bhumip Khasnabish (Mobile:+001-781-752-8003, vumip1 at gmail=2Ecom ) http://www=2Elinkedin=2Ecom/in/bhumipkhasnabish =20 -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web=2Ecom - Microsoft=AE Exchange solutions from a leading provider -= http://link=2Email2web=2Ecom/Business/Exchange From marcelo@it.uc3m.es Fri Feb 11 12:00:44 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: clouds@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: clouds@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71AD73A6B33 for ; Fri, 11 Feb 2011 12:00:44 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.299 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.299 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.300, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_44=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id F9u2VWFuDTiM for ; Fri, 11 Feb 2011 12:00:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp03.uc3m.es (smtp03.uc3m.es [163.117.176.133]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35F303A6C1B for ; Fri, 11 Feb 2011 12:00:33 -0800 (PST) X-uc3m-safe: yes Received: from marcelo-bagnulos-macbook-pro-2.local (57.31.18.95.dynamic.jazztel.es [95.18.31.57]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp03.uc3m.es (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FD0998DC8D for ; Fri, 11 Feb 2011 21:00:47 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <4D55956D.7050201@it.uc3m.es> Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 21:00:45 +0100 From: marcelo bagnulo braun User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; es-ES; rv:1.9.2.13) Gecko/20101207 Thunderbird/3.1.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: clouds@ietf.org References: <14584D6EE26B314187A4F68BA206060006933C32@ASHEVS008.mcilink.com> In-Reply-To: <14584D6EE26B314187A4F68BA206060006933C32@ASHEVS008.mcilink.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-TM-AS-Product-Ver: IMSS-7.0.0.3116-6.5.0.1024-17948.006 Subject: Re: [clouds] Thoughts on ClooudOPS X-BeenThere: clouds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Clouds pre-BOF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 20:00:44 -0000 Hi, just to point out some issues... below... El 11/02/11 20:48, So, Ning escribió: > > Bhumip and all, > > As discussed in this morning’s call, here are my personal views on the > proposed CloudOPS WG and the related drafts. > > Frameworks, high-level requirements, and best practices descriptions > on cloud infrastructure that impact multiple IETF protocols under > different areas and WGs, > If it is an OPS area WG what you are proposing, then the work you propose should fall into OPS, don't you think? (as opposed to multiple areas) If the work you propose fall into other WG, then it should go to the other WGs, right? > and/or protocols outside of IETF, belong to the CloudOPS WG. > If protocols are outside the IETF, then they shouldn't be defined in the IETF, don't you agree? > New protocols that impact multiple IETF protocols under different > areas and WGs, > similar comment here, if this is an OPS WG, then it should work within the OPS area scope again, if the protocol is being defined in another WG, then the work should be done in that WG. > > and/or protocols outside of IETF, also belong to the CloudOPS WG. > work outside the IETF, should be done, well, outside the IETF > ARMD WG’s work is very focused and much needed, and I voiced my > support for its establishment. However, I see difficulties in > broadening its charter to make it a single and only default CloudOPS > WG. All the non-ARMD related drafts will become distraction and cause > confusion. > i agree you should leave ARMD alone. It is well defined and well scoped problem and it is good as it currently is > In my humble opinion, the following drafts belong to the CloudOPS WG. > Many of them were presented at Cloud BoF in IETF79, and are in the > process of getting updated for IETF80. Several are new submissions > that are recently uploaded. I think what we have here is more than one > and half hours of meeting time JI really do not want to inflict the > pain on my ARMD friends. > I don't think you are approaching this from the right perspective. This is not about draft, is about real problems and concrete items that you want to work on. You should work on defining a charter, not in voicing for drafts that should be included in a WG that doesn't exist yet. In addition, all this long list seems to cover a too wide variety of topics. I would reccomend to be less ambitious, define a much scoped work, by defining a charter (As opposed to write drafts) my two cents regards, marcelo > 1. Cloud Reference Framework > 2. Cloud Security Framework > 3. VPN Extension for Cloud Services > 4. Network Abstraction for Enterprise and SP Class Cloud > 5. Protocol Considerations for Workload Mobility in Clouds > 6. Service Management for Virtualized Cloud > 7. Virtual Network Management Information Model > 8. Network Probability Requirements and Models > 9. Syslog Extension for Cloud Using Syslog Structured Data > 10. Virtual Resource Management (VRM) in Clouds > > Best regards, > > Ning So > > Network Evolution Planning > > Verizon, Inc. > > (office) 972-729-7905 > > (Cell) 972-955-0914 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:*clouds-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:clouds-bounces@ietf.org] *On > Behalf Of *Bhumip Khasnabish > *Sent:* Thursday, February 10, 2011 11:46 PM > *To:* clouds@ietf.org > *Subject:* [clouds] Conf call on Friday [11-February-2011] at 10 AM > US/NY time > > Please plan to join a conf call on > *Friday, 11-Feb.-2011 starting from 10 AM ET* (New York, USA time) > > to get updates on the Clouds initiatives/activities. > > [you may find the current NY/USA time (from your location) at the > following URL: > http://www.worldtimeserver.com/current_time_in_US-NY.aspx ]. > > > Dial in number: *US Toll-free +1-866-710-5490 > *If the toll-free number does not work, pls use *+001-203-875-8973* > *Passcode: 204 1744* > > (Thanks to Mr. Ning So for providing the conf bridge). > > ** > > *_Proposed Agenda:_* > > ** > > 1. VEPC draft update -- Ning et al > 2. CloudLog draft update -- Gene and Sam > 3. Data Center Operations (DCOPS) proposal update -- Ross (with > info from Ron, if any) > 4. draft-rfc-seamless-Cloud-masum-01.txt > (27.1 > KB) – Masum et al, /Network Abstraction for Enterprise and SP > class Cloud: Seamless Cloud Abstraction and Interfaces / > 5. Protocol Considerations for Workload Mobility in Clouds.txt > (21.5 > KB) - Masum et al, /Protocol Considerations for Workload > Mobility in Clouds / > 6. Karavettil-et-al-IETF-Cloud-Security-Framework-11Feb2011_v2.pdf > (0.6 > MB) – Suren et al, /updated cloud security framework (CSF) slides / > 7. draft-yokota-cloud-service-mobility-01.txt > (42.0 > KB) – Mr. Yokota et al, /Service Management for Virtualized > Networks / > 8. Virtual Desktop Infrastructure (VDI) Requirements and Survey > update – Mr. Wang and Mr. Ma > 9. Cloud (client and network sides) APIs update - Sam > 10. VRM update -- Mr Chu et al > 11. VDI proposal expectations (further guidance) -- Peter Saint-Andre > 12. VDI proposal development -- TBD > 13. Any other topics? > > As always, all of the drafts and presentations are available at the > following URL: http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/app/trac/wiki/Clouds > > *Next conf call*will be held on > > *_Friday-18-February-2011_**starting from 10 AM ET*(New York, USA time). > > *Many Thanks for Participation and Contributions.* > > Best Regards. > > Bhumip Khasnabish (Mobile:+001-781-752-8003, vumip1 at gmail.com > ) > http://www.linkedin.com/in/bhumipkhasnabish > > > _______________________________________________ > clouds mailing list > clouds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/clouds From ning.so@verizonbusiness.com Fri Feb 11 12:12:19 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: clouds@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: clouds@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07BBF3A69B9 for ; Fri, 11 Feb 2011 12:12:19 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.298 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.298 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.299, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_44=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FywKQNn2KyVM for ; Fri, 11 Feb 2011 12:12:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from ashesmtp01.verizonbusiness.com (ashesmtp01.verizonbusiness.com [198.4.8.163]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63FC43A698E for ; Fri, 11 Feb 2011 12:12:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from pdcismtp03.vzbi.com ([unknown] [166.40.77.73]) by firewall.verizonbusiness.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.03 32bit (built May 29 2009)) with ESMTP id <0LGG00LHNYSWAA90@firewall.verizonbusiness.com> for clouds@ietf.org; Fri, 11 Feb 2011 20:12:32 +0000 (GMT) Received: from pdcismtp03.vzbi.com ([unknown] [127.0.0.1]) by pdcismtp03.vzbi.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.03 32bit (built May 29 2009)) with SMTP id <0LGG00GKBYSW7L00@pdcismtp03.vzbi.com> for clouds@ietf.org; Fri, 11 Feb 2011 20:12:32 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ASHSRV139.mcilink.com ([unknown] [153.39.68.165]) by pdcismtp03.vzbi.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.03 32bit (built May 29 2009)) with ESMTP id <0LGG00G4HYSW7T00@pdcismtp03.vzbi.com> for clouds@ietf.org; Fri, 11 Feb 2011 20:12:32 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ASHEVS008.mcilink.com ([153.39.69.129]) by ASHSRV139.mcilink.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Fri, 11 Feb 2011 20:12:31 +0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 20:12:30 +0000 Message-id: <14584D6EE26B314187A4F68BA206060006933C7C@ASHEVS008.mcilink.com> In-reply-to: <4D55956D.7050201@it.uc3m.es> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-topic: [clouds] Thoughts on ClooudOPS Thread-index: AcvKJoOloHBMsCwSTVCcfC5sD4v0xgAAB5vQ References: <14584D6EE26B314187A4F68BA206060006933C32@ASHEVS008.mcilink.com> <4D55956D.7050201@it.uc3m.es> From: "So, Ning" To: marcelo bagnulo braun , clouds@ietf.org X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Feb 2011 20:12:31.0918 (UTC) FILETIME=[03AA34E0:01CBCA28] Subject: Re: [clouds] Thoughts on ClooudOPS X-BeenThere: clouds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Clouds pre-BOF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 20:12:19 -0000 Perhaps I am not describing my thoughts in a clearly defined terms and = definition, thus the confusion :) =20 When I say "the protocols outside IETF", I meant the interworking = between IETF protocols and the protocols outside IETF, which should be = addressed in IETF as well as outside IETF. When I say "other areas and WGs", I meant that a set of requirements may = be met with different solutions using protocols from different areas and = WGs. =20 Both cases are true for the VPN Extension Requirement for Cloud Services = draft. The CloudOPS charter has been defined and modified numerous times. I = listed the drafts meant to show that they fit into the current proposed = CloudOPS charter, not the proposed ARMD charter. =20 Hopefully this helps to clarify the matter, not causing additional = confusion :) I will keep my mouth shut on this, and let others chime = in. =20 =20 Best regards, =20 Ning So Network Evolution Planning Verizon, Inc. (office) 972-729-7905 (Cell) 972-955-0914 =20 -----Original Message----- From: clouds-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:clouds-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf = Of marcelo bagnulo braun Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 2:01 PM To: clouds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [clouds] Thoughts on ClooudOPS Hi, just to point out some issues... below... El 11/02/11 20:48, So, Ning escribi=F3: > > Bhumip and all, > > As discussed in this morning's call, here are my personal views on the = > proposed CloudOPS WG and the related drafts. > > Frameworks, high-level requirements, and best practices descriptions=20 > on cloud infrastructure that impact multiple IETF protocols under=20 > different areas and WGs, > If it is an OPS area WG what you are proposing, then the work you=20 propose should fall into OPS, don't you think? (as opposed to multiple=20 areas) If the work you propose fall into other WG, then it should go to the=20 other WGs, right? > and/or protocols outside of IETF, belong to the CloudOPS WG. > If protocols are outside the IETF, then they shouldn't be defined in the = IETF, don't you agree? > New protocols that impact multiple IETF protocols under different=20 > areas and WGs, > similar comment here, if this is an OPS WG, then it should work within=20 the OPS area scope again, if the protocol is being defined in another WG, then the work=20 should be done in that WG. > > and/or protocols outside of IETF, also belong to the CloudOPS WG. > work outside the IETF, should be done, well, outside the IETF > ARMD WG's work is very focused and much needed, and I voiced my=20 > support for its establishment. However, I see difficulties in=20 > broadening its charter to make it a single and only default CloudOPS=20 > WG. All the non-ARMD related drafts will become distraction and cause=20 > confusion. > i agree you should leave ARMD alone. It is well defined and well scoped problem and it is good as it = currently is > In my humble opinion, the following drafts belong to the CloudOPS WG.=20 > Many of them were presented at Cloud BoF in IETF79, and are in the=20 > process of getting updated for IETF80. Several are new submissions=20 > that are recently uploaded. I think what we have here is more than one = > and half hours of meeting time JI really do not want to inflict the=20 > pain on my ARMD friends. > I don't think you are approaching this from the right perspective. This is not about draft, is about real problems and concrete items that=20 you want to work on. You should work on defining a charter, not in voicing for drafts that=20 should be included in a WG that doesn't exist yet. In addition, all this long list seems to cover a too wide variety of = topics. I would reccomend to be less ambitious, define a much scoped work, by=20 defining a charter (As opposed to write drafts) my two cents regards, marcelo > 1. Cloud Reference Framework > 2. Cloud Security Framework > 3. VPN Extension for Cloud Services > 4. Network Abstraction for Enterprise and SP Class Cloud > 5. Protocol Considerations for Workload Mobility in Clouds > 6. Service Management for Virtualized Cloud > 7. Virtual Network Management Information Model > 8. Network Probability Requirements and Models > 9. Syslog Extension for Cloud Using Syslog Structured Data > 10. Virtual Resource Management (VRM) in Clouds > > Best regards, > > Ning So > > Network Evolution Planning > > Verizon, Inc. > > (office) 972-729-7905 > > (Cell) 972-955-0914 > > = ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:*clouds-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:clouds-bounces@ietf.org] *On=20 > Behalf Of *Bhumip Khasnabish > *Sent:* Thursday, February 10, 2011 11:46 PM > *To:* clouds@ietf.org > *Subject:* [clouds] Conf call on Friday [11-February-2011] at 10 AM=20 > US/NY time > > Please plan to join a conf call on > *Friday, 11-Feb.-2011 starting from 10 AM ET* (New York, USA time) > > to get updates on the Clouds initiatives/activities. > > [you may find the current NY/USA time (from your location) at the=20 > following URL:=20 > http://www.worldtimeserver.com/current_time_in_US-NY.aspx ]. > > > Dial in number: *US Toll-free +1-866-710-5490 > *If the toll-free number does not work, pls use *+001-203-875-8973* > *Passcode: 204 1744* > > (Thanks to Mr. Ning So for providing the conf bridge). > > ** > > *_Proposed Agenda:_* > > ** > > 1. VEPC draft update -- Ning et al > 2. CloudLog draft update -- Gene and Sam > 3. Data Center Operations (DCOPS) proposal update -- Ross (with > info from Ron, if any) > 4. draft-rfc-seamless-Cloud-masum-01.txt > = (27.1 > KB) - Masum et al, /Network Abstraction for Enterprise and SP > class Cloud: Seamless Cloud Abstraction and Interfaces / > 5. Protocol Considerations for Workload Mobility in Clouds.txt > = (21.5 > KB) - Masum et al, /Protocol Considerations for Workload > Mobility in Clouds / > 6. Karavettil-et-al-IETF-Cloud-Security-Framework-11Feb2011_v2.pdf > = (0.6 > MB) - Suren et al, /updated cloud security framework (CSF) = slides / > 7. draft-yokota-cloud-service-mobility-01.txt > = (42.0 > KB) - Mr. Yokota et al, /Service Management for Virtualized > Networks / > 8. Virtual Desktop Infrastructure (VDI) Requirements and Survey > update - Mr. Wang and Mr. Ma > 9. Cloud (client and network sides) APIs update - Sam > 10. VRM update -- Mr Chu et al > 11. VDI proposal expectations (further guidance) -- Peter = Saint-Andre > 12. VDI proposal development -- TBD > 13. Any other topics? > > As always, all of the drafts and presentations are available at the=20 > following URL: http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/app/trac/wiki/Clouds > > *Next conf call*will be held on > > *_Friday-18-February-2011_**starting from 10 AM ET*(New York, USA = time). > > *Many Thanks for Participation and Contributions.* > > Best Regards. > > Bhumip Khasnabish (Mobile:+001-781-752-8003, vumip1 at gmail.com=20 > ) > http://www.linkedin.com/in/bhumipkhasnabish > > > _______________________________________________ > clouds mailing list > clouds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/clouds _______________________________________________ clouds mailing list clouds@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/clouds From gregorio@um.es Mon Feb 14 10:01:51 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: clouds@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: clouds@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8AC93A6D48 for ; Mon, 14 Feb 2011 10:01:51 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.11 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.11 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_05=-1.11] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sSr5U462O6-s for ; Mon, 14 Feb 2011 10:01:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from xenon13.um.es (xenon13.um.es [155.54.212.167]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70DF03A6AB3 for ; Mon, 14 Feb 2011 10:01:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xenon13.um.es (Postfix) with ESMTP id 872245D528 for ; Mon, 14 Feb 2011 19:02:11 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: by antispam in UMU at xenon13.um.es Received: from xenon13.um.es ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (xenon13.um.es [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id vqENaypY8SQ6 for ; Mon, 14 Feb 2011 19:02:11 +0100 (CET) Received: from [95.214.66.96] (unknown [95.214.66.96]) (Authenticated sender: gregorio) by xenon13.um.es (Postfix) with ESMTPA id D78565D532 for ; Mon, 14 Feb 2011 19:02:09 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <4D596E27.40602@um.es> Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 19:02:15 +0100 From: Gregorio Martinez Organization: University of Murcia (UMU), Spain User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.0; en-GB; rv:1.9.2.13) Gecko/20101207 Thunderbird/3.1.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: clouds@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 10:12:30 -0800 Subject: [clouds] Subscribe X-BeenThere: clouds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Clouds pre-BOF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 18:07:18 -0000 Subscribe From spencer@wonderhamster.org Wed Feb 16 09:17:35 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: clouds@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: clouds@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06DF63A6C38 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2011 09:17:35 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.695 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.695 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.304, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_44=0.6, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id N36xFLuSvORB for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2011 09:17:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [74.208.4.195]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 963793A6C79 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2011 09:17:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from S73602b ([12.172.14.11]) by mrelay.perfora.net (node=mrus3) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0MCLMH-1Pyrpc218z-0092eO; Wed, 16 Feb 2011 12:18:00 -0500 Message-ID: <62B843A2D44446C2B7C8B187F47A957F@china.huawei.com> From: "Spencer Dawkins" To: "marcelo bagnulo braun" , References: <14584D6EE26B314187A4F68BA206060006933C32@ASHEVS008.mcilink.com> <4D55956D.7050201@it.uc3m.es> Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 11:17:55 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5931 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5994 X-Provags-ID: V02:K0:vkPhggK8iByiDxgrvc5rH06Pa2bdTjCLE/CU88t6i4l WnZj9mEx/b4X3DYVon7+ldlhJVWD9Q5b+cYzL8WT0khkZYCf0i 6ugZNjHwiD85QxPSF4boa2JXt300pBL9LnPx3k1DRKJnwn1mV8 +wKF9/AJnmA8cHGHcCGWBQZFteXdyaN1V6sK/fn7iF/sdgFKtv j1EXS0UXvc389WoRhlP9oCxyEFQj2A2I7dVnvVnNG4= Subject: Re: [clouds] Thoughts on ClooudOPS X-BeenThere: clouds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Clouds pre-BOF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 17:17:35 -0000 Just to mention one more issue ... Peter Saint-Andre said he would request that the IETF Secretariat close this mailing list two weeks ago. If you guys would like to have a place to discuss CloudOPS (or Data Center Ops, or ...) it would probably be great if you requested a mailing list for that. I'm thinking that Ron Bonica would be the right contact for that. If you guys would like to have a place to discuss Virtual Desktop stuff, Peter said he might be willing to create a mailing list for that, so he would be an excellent choice as the contact for that. I'm kind of surprised that this mailing list is still working at all :-) Thanks, Spencer ----- Original Message ----- From: "marcelo bagnulo braun" To: Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 2:00 PM Subject: Re: [clouds] Thoughts on ClooudOPS Hi, just to point out some issues... below... El 11/02/11 20:48, So, Ning escribió: > > Bhumip and all, > > As discussed in this morning’s call, here are my personal views on the > proposed CloudOPS WG and the related drafts. > > Frameworks, high-level requirements, and best practices descriptions on > cloud infrastructure that impact multiple IETF protocols under different > areas and WGs, > If it is an OPS area WG what you are proposing, then the work you propose should fall into OPS, don't you think? (as opposed to multiple areas) If the work you propose fall into other WG, then it should go to the other WGs, right? > and/or protocols outside of IETF, belong to the CloudOPS WG. > If protocols are outside the IETF, then they shouldn't be defined in the IETF, don't you agree? > New protocols that impact multiple IETF protocols under different areas > and WGs, > similar comment here, if this is an OPS WG, then it should work within the OPS area scope again, if the protocol is being defined in another WG, then the work should be done in that WG. > > and/or protocols outside of IETF, also belong to the CloudOPS WG. > work outside the IETF, should be done, well, outside the IETF > ARMD WG’s work is very focused and much needed, and I voiced my support > for its establishment. However, I see difficulties in broadening its > charter to make it a single and only default CloudOPS WG. All the non-ARMD > related drafts will become distraction and cause confusion. > i agree you should leave ARMD alone. It is well defined and well scoped problem and it is good as it currently is > In my humble opinion, the following drafts belong to the CloudOPS WG. Many > of them were presented at Cloud BoF in IETF79, and are in the process of > getting updated for IETF80. Several are new submissions that are recently > uploaded. I think what we have here is more than one and half hours of > meeting time JI really do not want to inflict the pain on my ARMD friends. > I don't think you are approaching this from the right perspective. This is not about draft, is about real problems and concrete items that you want to work on. You should work on defining a charter, not in voicing for drafts that should be included in a WG that doesn't exist yet. In addition, all this long list seems to cover a too wide variety of topics. I would reccomend to be less ambitious, define a much scoped work, by defining a charter (As opposed to write drafts) my two cents regards, marcelo > 1. Cloud Reference Framework > 2. Cloud Security Framework > 3. VPN Extension for Cloud Services > 4. Network Abstraction for Enterprise and SP Class Cloud > 5. Protocol Considerations for Workload Mobility in Clouds > 6. Service Management for Virtualized Cloud > 7. Virtual Network Management Information Model > 8. Network Probability Requirements and Models > 9. Syslog Extension for Cloud Using Syslog Structured Data > 10. Virtual Resource Management (VRM) in Clouds > > Best regards, > > Ning So > > Network Evolution Planning > > Verizon, Inc. > > (office) 972-729-7905 > > (Cell) 972-955-0914 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:*clouds-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:clouds-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf > Of *Bhumip Khasnabish > *Sent:* Thursday, February 10, 2011 11:46 PM > *To:* clouds@ietf.org > *Subject:* [clouds] Conf call on Friday [11-February-2011] at 10 AM US/NY > time > > Please plan to join a conf call on > *Friday, 11-Feb.-2011 starting from 10 AM ET* (New York, USA time) > > to get updates on the Clouds initiatives/activities. > > [you may find the current NY/USA time (from your location) at the > following URL: > http://www.worldtimeserver.com/current_time_in_US-NY.aspx ]. > > > Dial in number: *US Toll-free +1-866-710-5490 > *If the toll-free number does not work, pls use *+001-203-875-8973* > *Passcode: 204 1744* > > (Thanks to Mr. Ning So for providing the conf bridge). > > ** > > *_Proposed Agenda:_* > > ** > > 1. VEPC draft update -- Ning et al > 2. CloudLog draft update -- Gene and Sam > 3. Data Center Operations (DCOPS) proposal update -- Ross (with > info from Ron, if any) > 4. draft-rfc-seamless-Cloud-masum-01.txt > > (27.1 > KB) – Masum et al, /Network Abstraction for Enterprise and SP > class Cloud: Seamless Cloud Abstraction and Interfaces / > 5. Protocol Considerations for Workload Mobility in Clouds.txt > > (21.5 > KB) - Masum et al, /Protocol Considerations for Workload > Mobility in Clouds / > 6. Karavettil-et-al-IETF-Cloud-Security-Framework-11Feb2011_v2.pdf > > (0.6 > MB) – Suren et al, /updated cloud security framework (CSF) slides / > 7. draft-yokota-cloud-service-mobility-01.txt > > (42.0 > KB) – Mr. Yokota et al, /Service Management for Virtualized > Networks / > 8. Virtual Desktop Infrastructure (VDI) Requirements and Survey > update – Mr. Wang and Mr. Ma > 9. Cloud (client and network sides) APIs update - Sam > 10. VRM update -- Mr Chu et al > 11. VDI proposal expectations (further guidance) -- Peter Saint-Andre > 12. VDI proposal development -- TBD > 13. Any other topics? > > As always, all of the drafts and presentations are available at the > following URL: http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/app/trac/wiki/Clouds > > *Next conf call*will be held on > > *_Friday-18-February-2011_**starting from 10 AM ET*(New York, USA time). > > *Many Thanks for Participation and Contributions.* > > Best Regards. > > Bhumip Khasnabish (Mobile:+001-781-752-8003, vumip1 at gmail.com > ) > http://www.linkedin.com/in/bhumipkhasnabish > > > _______________________________________________ > clouds mailing list > clouds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/clouds _______________________________________________ clouds mailing list clouds@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/clouds From stpeter@stpeter.im Wed Feb 16 09:18:53 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: clouds@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: clouds@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AFB73A6CD7 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2011 09:18:53 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.200, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_44=0.6, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rxP5CDiVnMiF for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2011 09:18:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from stpeter.im (stpeter.im [207.210.219.233]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0C1F3A6C38 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2011 09:18:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from leavealone.cisco.com (72-163-0-129.cisco.com [72.163.0.129]) (Authenticated sender: stpeter) by stpeter.im (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 83568400F6 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2011 10:37:27 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <4D5C0714.6010108@stpeter.im> Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 10:19:16 -0700 From: Peter Saint-Andre User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; en-US; rv:1.9.2.13) Gecko/20101207 Thunderbird/3.1.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: clouds@ietf.org References: <14584D6EE26B314187A4F68BA206060006933C32@ASHEVS008.mcilink.com> <4D55956D.7050201@it.uc3m.es> <62B843A2D44446C2B7C8B187F47A957F@china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <62B843A2D44446C2B7C8B187F47A957F@china.huawei.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.1.1 OpenPGP: url=http://www.saint-andre.com/me/stpeter.asc Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="------------ms030406010806090706040702" Subject: Re: [clouds] Thoughts on ClooudOPS X-BeenThere: clouds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Clouds pre-BOF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 17:18:53 -0000 This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms030406010806090706040702 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sorry about that, I was travelling and then catching up afterward. This list will close very soon because I will send a request to the Secretariat *right now*. Peter On 2/16/11 10:17 AM, Spencer Dawkins wrote: > Just to mention one more issue ... >=20 > Peter Saint-Andre said he would request that the IETF Secretariat close= > this mailing list two weeks ago. >=20 > If you guys would like to have a place to discuss CloudOPS (or Data > Center Ops, or ...) it would probably be great if you requested a > mailing list for that. I'm thinking that Ron Bonica would be the right > contact for that. >=20 > If you guys would like to have a place to discuss Virtual Desktop stuff= , > Peter said he might be willing to create a mailing list for that, so he= > would be an excellent choice as the contact for that. >=20 > I'm kind of surprised that this mailing list is still working at all :-= ) >=20 > Thanks, >=20 > Spencer >=20 > ----- Original Message ----- From: "marcelo bagnulo braun" > > To: > Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 2:00 PM > Subject: Re: [clouds] Thoughts on ClooudOPS >=20 >=20 > Hi, >=20 > just to point out some issues... >=20 > below... >=20 > El 11/02/11 20:48, So, Ning escribi=C3=B3: >> >> Bhumip and all, >> >> As discussed in this morning=E2=80=99s call, here are my personal view= s on the >> proposed CloudOPS WG and the related drafts. >> >> Frameworks, high-level requirements, and best practices descriptions >> on cloud infrastructure that impact multiple IETF protocols under >> different areas and WGs, >> > If it is an OPS area WG what you are proposing, then the work you > propose should fall into OPS, don't you think? (as opposed to multiple > areas) > If the work you propose fall into other WG, then it should go to the > other WGs, right? >=20 >=20 >> and/or protocols outside of IETF, belong to the CloudOPS WG. >> > If protocols are outside the IETF, then they shouldn't be defined in th= e > IETF, don't you agree? >=20 >> New protocols that impact multiple IETF protocols under different >> areas and WGs, >> > similar comment here, if this is an OPS WG, then it should work within > the OPS area scope > again, if the protocol is being defined in another WG, then the work > should be done in that WG. >> >> and/or protocols outside of IETF, also belong to the CloudOPS WG. >> > work outside the IETF, should be done, well, outside the IETF >=20 >> ARMD WG=E2=80=99s work is very focused and much needed, and I voiced m= y >> support for its establishment. However, I see difficulties in >> broadening its charter to make it a single and only default CloudOPS >> WG. All the non-ARMD related drafts will become distraction and cause >> confusion. >> > i agree you should leave ARMD alone. > It is well defined and well scoped problem and it is good as it > currently is >=20 >> In my humble opinion, the following drafts belong to the CloudOPS WG. >> Many of them were presented at Cloud BoF in IETF79, and are in the >> process of getting updated for IETF80. Several are new submissions >> that are recently uploaded. I think what we have here is more than one= >> and half hours of meeting time JI really do not want to inflict the >> pain on my ARMD friends. >> > I don't think you are approaching this from the right perspective. > This is not about draft, is about real problems and concrete items that= > you want to work on. > You should work on defining a charter, not in voicing for drafts that > should be included in a WG that doesn't exist yet. >=20 > In addition, all this long list seems to cover a too wide variety of > topics. > I would reccomend to be less ambitious, define a much scoped work, by > defining a charter (As opposed to write drafts) >=20 > my two cents >=20 > regards, marcelo >=20 >=20 >=20 >> 1. Cloud Reference Framework >> 2. Cloud Security Framework >> 3. VPN Extension for Cloud Services >> 4. Network Abstraction for Enterprise and SP Class Cloud >> 5. Protocol Considerations for Workload Mobility in Clouds >> 6. Service Management for Virtualized Cloud >> 7. Virtual Network Management Information Model >> 8. Network Probability Requirements and Models >> 9. Syslog Extension for Cloud Using Syslog Structured Data >> 10. Virtual Resource Management (VRM) in Clouds >> >> Best regards, >> >> Ning So >> >> Network Evolution Planning >> >> Verizon, Inc. >> >> (office) 972-729-7905 >> >> (Cell) 972-955-0914 >> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------= -- >> >> *From:*clouds-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:clouds-bounces@ietf.org] *On >> Behalf Of *Bhumip Khasnabish >> *Sent:* Thursday, February 10, 2011 11:46 PM >> *To:* clouds@ietf.org >> *Subject:* [clouds] Conf call on Friday [11-February-2011] at 10 AM >> US/NY time >> >> Please plan to join a conf call on >> *Friday, 11-Feb.-2011 starting from 10 AM ET* (New York, USA time) >> >> to get updates on the Clouds initiatives/activities. >> >> [you may find the current NY/USA time (from your location) at the >> following URL: >> http://www.worldtimeserver.com/current_time_in_US-NY.aspx ]. >> >> >> Dial in number: *US Toll-free +1-866-710-5490 >> *If the toll-free number does not work, pls use *+001-203-875-8973* >> *Passcode: 204 1744* >> >> (Thanks to Mr. Ning So for providing the conf bridge). >> >> ** >> >> *_Proposed Agenda:_* >> >> ** >> >> 1. VEPC draft update -- Ning et al >> 2. CloudLog draft update -- Gene and Sam >> 3. Data Center Operations (DCOPS) proposal update -- Ross (with >> info from Ron, if any) >> 4. draft-rfc-seamless-Cloud-masum-01.txt >> >> (27.1 >> >> KB) =E2=80=93 Masum et al, /Network Abstraction for Enterprise a= nd SP >> class Cloud: Seamless Cloud Abstraction and Interfaces / >> 5. Protocol Considerations for Workload Mobility in Clouds.txt >> >> (21.5 >> >> KB) - Masum et al, /Protocol Considerations for Workload >> Mobility in Clouds / >> 6. Karavettil-et-al-IETF-Cloud-Security-Framework-11Feb2011_v2.pdf >> >> (0.6 >> >> MB) =E2=80=93 Suren et al, /updated cloud security framework (CS= F) slides / >> 7. draft-yokota-cloud-service-mobility-01.txt >> >> (42.0 >> >> KB) =E2=80=93 Mr. Yokota et al, /Service Management for Virtuali= zed >> Networks / >> 8. Virtual Desktop Infrastructure (VDI) Requirements and Survey >> update =E2=80=93 Mr. Wang and Mr. Ma >> 9. Cloud (client and network sides) APIs update - Sam >> 10. VRM update -- Mr Chu et al >> 11. VDI proposal expectations (further guidance) -- Peter Saint-Andr= e >> 12. VDI proposal development -- TBD >> 13. Any other topics? >> >> As always, all of the drafts and presentations are available at the >> following URL: http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/app/trac/wiki/Clouds >> >> *Next conf call*will be held on >> >> *_Friday-18-February-2011_**starting from 10 AM ET*(New York, USA time= ). >> >> *Many Thanks for Participation and Contributions.* >> >> Best Regards. >> >> Bhumip Khasnabish (Mobile:+001-781-752-8003, vumip1 at gmail.com >> ) >> http://www.linkedin.com/in/bhumipkhasnabish >> --------------ms030406010806090706040702 Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIITzjCC BjQwggQcoAMCAQICASMwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQELBQAwfTELMAkGA1UEBhMCSUwxFjAUBgNVBAoT DVN0YXJ0Q29tIEx0ZC4xKzApBgNVBAsTIlNlY3VyZSBEaWdpdGFsIENlcnRpZmljYXRlIFNp 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Q29tIENsYXNzIDMgUHJpbWFyeSBJbnRlcm1lZGlhdGUgQ2xpZW50IENBAgIAizANBgkqhkiG 9w0BAQEFAASCAQAUndZJlG4SnTepl+MTcEcf2TOnk99DLJiSy0c7Qm5uYZwGdikiFEeRaRm3 m8WDhXbOXCdiv0z/JOjAIn1j3oS0rzm8bYnRJVOqhv3SvSps/ovkyN5onbF3H+VUsafpY6rn qXkXBikrboOEM1tpyO0l/FzYSWIpVZr3rvF+D0JWFCfSsB6TnrFm29aGa9SnnpZ3OiXL2cqW s7F0ZAjWDwi1n02pe3XAdTFS4/D83Do8GpFr1tI9H12F5yniF3zdLAry/GOycmeX02P/Ko7L FRNBylkL/idUnfMYLD0I0ShDkey9wjABvtAJ+AR6QHaEDr65BfzZodBb4zSZcc1qhm/PAAAA AAAA --------------ms030406010806090706040702-- From vumip1@gmail.com Wed Feb 16 09:28:57 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: clouds@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: clouds@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1FC53A6EAA for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2011 09:28:56 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_44=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oF5Ks6ftfZpk for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2011 09:28:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-gw0-f44.google.com (mail-gw0-f44.google.com [74.125.83.44]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 268493A6C6E for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2011 09:28:51 -0800 (PST) Received: by gwb20 with SMTP id 20so779815gwb.31 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2011 09:29:19 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=opv01+s4Sc1rz1sXBR/4NJYTlxSD7vHWjxr8J/KLgE8=; b=s6b5/Ky5q72e/J7BFKVIF5QuIuafjfodR9d7pKpqxceTIP9T6JPRJiYK63RsTyI9st KyhFK//IE256Vo7ZxAcHcPAB5WEYYBwG00YKAoyvv0Rh/ntKkiYg2HmL9e64Z9QSYQQu l5CkKnmjyosjDdRLCxUkwx88lFf8mVcqumpm8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; b=gn1EK+Q5eBJvzRIv88y88nD/V4c+oHRTLk4ScWwdt3Lh2aExUWVci+RCV0bAYQFbhS 38fXNhe8FDeSkevSppyHbPWtfVFfzqBq1pd0jAL/GuEvu1RnR4r+udsbB8I+9EGhfoSx V/ZBASQdfkDG310Hi0A+jt0kcJlRqoiCw8I+I= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.151.7.10 with SMTP id k10mr1049386ybi.223.1297877359593; Wed, 16 Feb 2011 09:29:19 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.147.171.9 with HTTP; Wed, 16 Feb 2011 09:29:19 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <62B843A2D44446C2B7C8B187F47A957F@china.huawei.com> References: <14584D6EE26B314187A4F68BA206060006933C32@ASHEVS008.mcilink.com> <4D55956D.7050201@it.uc3m.es> <62B843A2D44446C2B7C8B187F47A957F@china.huawei.com> Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 12:29:19 -0500 Message-ID: From: Bhumip Khasnabish To: Spencer Dawkins , Ronald Bonica Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cd518ecfb0a48049c699eff Cc: clouds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [clouds] Thoughts on ClooudOPS X-BeenThere: clouds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Clouds pre-BOF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 17:28:57 -0000 --000e0cd518ecfb0a48049c699eff Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am requesting Peter to keep this mailing list up and running until cloudops@ietf.org or dcops@ietf.org and cloudApps@ietf.org or vdi@ietforg are created. Ron, Pls let me know what we need to do to get cloudops@ietf.org or dcops@ietf.org created. Peter, Is it possible to keep clouds@ietf.org for CloudApps (with focus on VDI) discussion. If not pls consider my request to create vdi@ietf.org, and may be we can keep the same WiKi website to keep the contributions.. PLS let me know what you think and how we should proceed. Thanks again. Best. Bhumip On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 12:17 PM, Spencer Dawkins wrote: > Just to mention one more issue ... > > Peter Saint-Andre said he would request that the IETF Secretariat close > this mailing list two weeks ago. > > If you guys would like to have a place to discuss CloudOPS (or Data Cente= r > Ops, or ...) it would probably be great if you requested a mailing list f= or > that. I'm thinking that Ron Bonica would be the right contact for that. > > If you guys would like to have a place to discuss Virtual Desktop stuff, > Peter said he might be willing to create a mailing list for that, so he > would be an excellent choice as the contact for that. > > I'm kind of surprised that this mailing list is still working at all :-) > > Thanks, > > Spencer > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "marcelo bagnulo braun" < > marcelo@it.uc3m.es> > To: > Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 2:00 PM > > Subject: Re: [clouds] Thoughts on ClooudOPS > > > Hi, > > just to point out some issues... > > below... > > El 11/02/11 20:48, So, Ning escribi=F3: > >> >> Bhumip and all, >> >> As discussed in this morning=92s call, here are my personal views on the >> proposed CloudOPS WG and the related drafts. >> >> Frameworks, high-level requirements, and best practices descriptions on >> cloud infrastructure that impact multiple IETF protocols under different >> areas and WGs, >> >> If it is an OPS area WG what you are proposing, then the work you > propose should fall into OPS, don't you think? (as opposed to multiple > areas) > If the work you propose fall into other WG, then it should go to the > other WGs, right? > > > and/or protocols outside of IETF, belong to the CloudOPS WG. >> >> If protocols are outside the IETF, then they shouldn't be defined in the > IETF, don't you agree? > > New protocols that impact multiple IETF protocols under different areas a= nd >> WGs, >> >> similar comment here, if this is an OPS WG, then it should work within > the OPS area scope > again, if the protocol is being defined in another WG, then the work > should be done in that WG. > >> >> and/or protocols outside of IETF, also belong to the CloudOPS WG. >> >> work outside the IETF, should be done, well, outside the IETF > > ARMD WG=92s work is very focused and much needed, and I voiced my support= for >> its establishment. However, I see difficulties in broadening its charter= to >> make it a single and only default CloudOPS WG. All the non-ARMD related >> drafts will become distraction and cause confusion. >> >> i agree you should leave ARMD alone. > It is well defined and well scoped problem and it is good as it currently > is > > In my humble opinion, the following drafts belong to the CloudOPS WG. Man= y >> of them were presented at Cloud BoF in IETF79, and are in the process of >> getting updated for IETF80. Several are new submissions that are recentl= y >> uploaded. I think what we have here is more than one and half hours of >> meeting time JI really do not want to inflict the pain on my ARMD friend= s. >> >> I don't think you are approaching this from the right perspective. > This is not about draft, is about real problems and concrete items that > you want to work on. > You should work on defining a charter, not in voicing for drafts that > should be included in a WG that doesn't exist yet. > > In addition, all this long list seems to cover a too wide variety of > topics. > I would reccomend to be less ambitious, define a much scoped work, by > defining a charter (As opposed to write drafts) > > my two cents > > regards, marcelo > > > > 1. Cloud Reference Framework >> 2. Cloud Security Framework >> 3. VPN Extension for Cloud Services >> 4. Network Abstraction for Enterprise and SP Class Cloud >> 5. Protocol Considerations for Workload Mobility in Clouds >> 6. Service Management for Virtualized Cloud >> 7. Virtual Network Management Information Model >> 8. Network Probability Requirements and Models >> 9. Syslog Extension for Cloud Using Syslog Structured Data >> 10. Virtual Resource Management (VRM) in Clouds >> >> Best regards, >> >> Ning So >> >> Network Evolution Planning >> >> Verizon, Inc. >> >> (office) 972-729-7905 >> >> (Cell) 972-955-0914 >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> *From:*clouds-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:clouds-bounces@ietf.org] *On >> Behalf Of *Bhumip Khasnabish >> *Sent:* Thursday, February 10, 2011 11:46 PM >> *To:* clouds@ietf.org >> *Subject:* [clouds] Conf call on Friday [11-February-2011] at 10 AM US/N= Y >> time >> >> Please plan to join a conf call on >> *Friday, 11-Feb.-2011 starting from 10 AM ET* (New York, USA time) >> >> to get updates on the Clouds initiatives/activities. >> >> [you may find the current NY/USA time (from your location) at the >> following URL: http://www.worldtimeserver.com/current_time_in_US-NY.aspx= ]. >> >> >> Dial in number: *US Toll-free +1-866-710-5490 >> *If the toll-free number does not work, pls use *+001-203-875-8973* >> *Passcode: 204 1744* >> >> (Thanks to Mr. Ning So for providing the conf bridge). >> >> ** >> >> *_Proposed Agenda:_* >> >> ** >> >> 1. VEPC draft update -- Ning et al >> 2. CloudLog draft update -- Gene and Sam >> 3. Data Center Operations (DCOPS) proposal update -- Ross (with >> info from Ron, if any) >> 4. draft-rfc-seamless-Cloud-masum-01.txt >> >> < >> http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/app/trac/attachment/wiki/Clouds/draft-rf= c-seamless-Cloud-masum-01.txt >> >(27.1 >> KB) =96 Masum et al, /Network Abstraction for Enterprise and SP >> class Cloud: Seamless Cloud Abstraction and Interfaces / >> 5. Protocol Considerations for Workload Mobility in Clouds.txt >> >> < >> http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/app/trac/attachment/wiki/Clouds/Protocol= %20Considerations%20for%20Workload%20Mobility%20in%20Clouds.txt >> >(21.5 >> KB) - Masum et al, /Protocol Considerations for Workload >> Mobility in Clouds / >> 6. Karavettil-et-al-IETF-Cloud-Security-Framework-11Feb2011_v2.pdf >> >> < >> http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/app/trac/attachment/wiki/Clouds/Karavett= il-et-al-IETF-Cloud-Security-Framework-11Feb2011_v2.pdf >> >(0.6 >> MB) =96 Suren et al, /updated cloud security framework (CSF) slides= / >> 7. draft-yokota-cloud-service-mobility-01.txt >> >> < >> http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/app/trac/attachment/wiki/Clouds/draft-yo= kota-cloud-service-mobility-01.txt >> >(42.0 >> KB) =96 Mr. Yokota et al, /Service Management for Virtualized >> Networks / >> 8. Virtual Desktop Infrastructure (VDI) Requirements and Survey >> update =96 Mr. Wang and Mr. Ma >> 9. Cloud (client and network sides) APIs update - Sam >> 10. VRM update -- Mr Chu et al >> 11. VDI proposal expectations (further guidance) -- Peter Saint-Andre >> 12. VDI proposal development -- TBD >> 13. Any other topics? >> >> As always, all of the drafts and presentations are available at the >> following URL: http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/app/trac/wiki/Clouds >> >> *Next conf call*will be held on >> >> *_Friday-18-February-2011_**starting from 10 AM ET*(New York, USA time). >> >> *Many Thanks for Participation and Contributions.* >> >> Best Regards. >> >> Bhumip Khasnabish (Mobile:+001-781-752-8003, vumip1 at gmail.com > vumip1%20at%20gmail.com>) >> http://www.linkedin.com/in/bhumipkhasnabish >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> clouds mailing list >> clouds@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/clouds >> > > _______________________________________________ > clouds mailing list > clouds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/clouds > _______________________________________________ > clouds mailing list > clouds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/clouds > --000e0cd518ecfb0a48049c699eff Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I am requesting Peter to keep this mailing list up an= d running until cloudops@ietf.org or dcops@ietf.org
and
cloudApps@ietf.= org or vdi@ietforg are created.<= /div>
=A0
Ron,
Pls let me know what we need to do to get cloudops@ietf.org or = dcops@ietf.org created.
=A0
Peter,
Is it possible to keep clouds@ietf.org for CloudApps (with focus on VDI) discussion.
If not pls consider my request to create vdi@ietf.org, and may be we can keep the same WiKi = website to keep the contributions.. PLS let me know what you think and how = we should proceed. Thanks again.
Best.
Bhumip
=A0
=A0
=A0


On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 12:17 PM, Spencer Dawkin= s <spence= r@wonderhamster.org> wrote:
Just to mention one more issue .= ..

Peter Saint-Andre said he would request that the IETF Secretariat= close this mailing list two weeks ago.

If you guys would like to have a place to discuss CloudOPS (or Data Cen= ter Ops, or ...) it would probably be great if you requested a mailing list= for that. I'm thinking that Ron Bonica would be the right contact for = that.

If you guys would like to have a place to discuss Virtual Desktop stuff= , Peter said he might be willing to create a mailing list for that, so he w= ould be an excellent choice as the contact for that.

I'm kind of= surprised that this mailing list is still working at all :-)

Thanks,

Spencer

----- Original Message ----- From: "= marcelo bagnulo braun" <marcelo@it.uc3m.es>
To: <clouds@ietf.org>
Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 2:00 PM=20

Subject: Re: [clouds] Thoughts on ClooudOPS

Hi,

just to point out some issues...

below.= ..

El 11/02/11 20:48, So, Ning escribi=F3:

Bhumip and all,

As di= scussed in this morning=92s call, here are my personal views on the propose= d CloudOPS WG and the related drafts.

Frameworks, high-level requirements, and best practices descriptions on= cloud infrastructure that impact multiple IETF protocols under different a= reas and WGs,

If it is an OPS area WG what you are prop= osing, then the work you
propose should fall into OPS, don't you think? (as opposed to multiple<= br>areas)
If the work you propose fall into other WG, then it should go = to the
other WGs, right?


and/or protocols outside of IETF= , belong to the CloudOPS WG.

If protocols are outside t= he IETF, then they shouldn't be defined in the
IETF, don't you agree?

New protocols that impact multip= le IETF protocols under different areas and WGs,

simila= r comment here, if this is an OPS WG, then it should work within
the OPS area scope
again, if the protocol is being defined in another WG= , then the work
should be done in that WG.

and/or protocols outside of = IETF, also belong to the CloudOPS WG.

work outside the = IETF, should be done, well, outside the IETF

ARMD WG=92s work is very focused= and much needed, and I voiced my support for its establishment. However, I= see difficulties in broadening its charter to make it a single and only de= fault CloudOPS WG. All the non-ARMD related drafts will become distraction = and cause confusion.

i agree you should leave ARMD alone.
It is well defined= and well scoped problem and it is good as it currently is

In my humble opinion, the follow= ing drafts belong to the CloudOPS WG. Many of them were presented at Cloud = BoF in IETF79, and are in the process of getting updated for IETF80. Severa= l are new submissions that are recently uploaded. I think what we have here= is more than one and half hours of meeting time JI really do not want to i= nflict the pain on my ARMD friends.

I don't think you are approaching this from the right = perspective.
This is not about draft, is about real problems and concret= e items that
you want to work on.
You should work on defining a chart= er, not in voicing for drafts that
should be included in a WG that doesn't exist yet.

In addition, = all this long list seems to cover a too wide variety of topics.
I would = reccomend to be less ambitious, define a much scoped work, by
defining a= charter (As opposed to write drafts)

my two cents

regards, marcelo



=A0 1. Cloud Reference Framework=
=A0 2. Cloud Security Framework
=A0 3. VPN Extension for Cloud Servi= ces
=A0 4. Network Abstraction for Enterprise and SP Class Cloud
=A0 5. Prot= ocol Considerations for Workload Mobility in Clouds
=A0 6. Service Manag= ement for Virtualized Cloud
=A0 7. Virtual Network Management Informatio= n Model
=A0 8. Network Probability Requirements and Models
=A0 9. Syslog Extensi= on for Cloud Using Syslog Structured Data
=A010. Virtual Resource Manage= ment (VRM) in Clouds

Best regards,

Ning So

Network Evo= lution Planning

Verizon, Inc.

(office) 972-729-7905

(Cell) 972-955-0914
---------------------------------------------------------------------= ---

*From:*clouds-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:clouds-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Bhumi= p Khasnabish
*Sent:* Thursday, February 10, 2011 11:46 PM
*To:* clouds@ietf.org
*Subject:* [clouds] = Conf call on Friday [11-February-2011] at 10 AM US/NY time

Please pl= an to join a conf call on
*Friday, 11-Feb.-2011 starting from 10 AM ET* (New York, USA time)

t= o get updates on the Clouds initiatives/activities.

[you may find th= e current NY/USA time (from your location) at the following URL: http://www.worldtimeserver.com/current_time_in_US-NY.aspx ].


Dial in number: *US Toll-free +1-866-710-5490
*If the toll-free = number does not work, pls use *+001-203-875-8973*
*Passcode: 204 1744*
(Thanks to Mr. Ning So for providing the conf bridge).

**

*_Proposed Agenda:_*

**

=A0 1. VEPC draft update -- Ning = et al
=A0 2. CloudLog draft update -- Gene and Sam
=A0 3. Data Center= Operations (DCOPS) proposal update -- Ross (with
=A0 =A0 =A0info from R= on, if any)
=A0 4. draft-rfc-seamless-Cloud-masum-01.txt

<http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/app/t= rac/attachment/wiki/Clouds/draft-rfc-seamless-Cloud-masum-01.txt>(27= .1
=A0 =A0 =A0KB) =96 Masum et al, /Network Abstraction for Enterprise and SP<= br>=A0 =A0 =A0class Cloud: Seamless Cloud Abstraction and Interfaces /
= =A0 5. Protocol Considerations for Workload Mobility in Clouds.txt

&= lt;http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/app/trac/attachment/wiki= /Clouds/Protocol%20Considerations%20for%20Workload%20Mobility%20in%20Clouds= .txt>(21.5
=A0 =A0 =A0KB) - Masum et al, /Protocol Considerations for Workload
=A0 = =A0 =A0Mobility in Clouds /
=A0 6. Karavettil-et-al-IETF-Cloud-Security-= Framework-11Feb2011_v2.pdf

<http://trac.tools.ietf.org/ar= ea/app/trac/attachment/wiki/Clouds/Karavettil-et-al-IETF-Cloud-Security-Fra= mework-11Feb2011_v2.pdf>(0.6
=A0 =A0 =A0MB) =96 Suren et al, /updated cloud security framework (CSF) sli= des /
=A0 7. draft-yokota-cloud-service-mobility-01.txt

<http://trac.tools.= ietf.org/area/app/trac/attachment/wiki/Clouds/draft-yokota-cloud-service-mo= bility-01.txt>(42.0
=A0 =A0 =A0KB) =96 Mr. Yokota et al, /Service Management for Virtualized=A0 =A0 =A0Networks /
=A0 8. Virtual Desktop Infrastructure (VDI) Requi= rements and Survey
=A0 =A0 =A0update =96 Mr. Wang and Mr. Ma
=A0 9. C= loud (client and network sides) APIs update - Sam
=A010. VRM update -- Mr Chu et al
=A011. VDI proposal expectations (furt= her guidance) -- Peter Saint-Andre
=A012. VDI proposal development -- TB= D
=A013. Any other topics?

As always, all of the drafts and prese= ntations are available at the following URL: http://trac.tools.ietf= .org/area/app/trac/wiki/Clouds

*Next conf call*will be held on

*_Friday-18-February-2011_**star= ting from 10 AM ET*(New York, USA time).

*Many Thanks for Participat= ion and Contributions.*

Best Regards.

Bhumip Khasnabish (Mobi= le:+001-781-752-8003, vumip1 at gmail.com <mailto:vumip1%20at%20gmail.com>)
h= ttp://www.linkedin.com/in/bhumipkhasnabish


_________________= ______________________________
clouds mailing list
clouds@ietf.org
= https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/clouds

______= _________________________________________
clouds mailing list
clouds@ietf.org
= https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/clouds
______________________= _________________________
clouds mailing list
clouds@ietf.org
= https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/clouds


=A0 --000e0cd518ecfb0a48049c699eff-- From stpeter@stpeter.im Wed Feb 16 11:51:23 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: clouds@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: clouds@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D25553A6CFF for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2011 11:51:23 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.200, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_44=0.6, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XpHbBwKZasCg for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2011 11:51:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from stpeter.im (stpeter.im [207.210.219.233]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED9F43A6A00 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2011 11:51:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from leavealone.cisco.com (72-163-0-129.cisco.com [72.163.0.129]) (Authenticated sender: stpeter) by stpeter.im (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3FEC2400F6; Wed, 16 Feb 2011 13:09:57 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <4D5C2AD3.6020601@stpeter.im> Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 12:51:47 -0700 From: Peter Saint-Andre User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; en-US; rv:1.9.2.13) Gecko/20101207 Thunderbird/3.1.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bhumip Khasnabish References: <14584D6EE26B314187A4F68BA206060006933C32@ASHEVS008.mcilink.com> <4D55956D.7050201@it.uc3m.es> <62B843A2D44446C2B7C8B187F47A957F@china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.1.1 OpenPGP: url=http://www.saint-andre.com/me/stpeter.asc Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="------------ms070408010208040406040307" Cc: clouds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [clouds] Thoughts on ClooudOPS X-BeenThere: clouds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Clouds pre-BOF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 19:51:24 -0000 This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms070408010208040406040307 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I see no reason to delay closing of this list. In fact, I suggest that it might be more productive for folks who are interested in these topics to self-organize on lists hosted elsewhere, instead of continuing to consume IETF bandwidth (both electronic and mental). On 2/16/11 10:29 AM, Bhumip Khasnabish wrote: > I am requesting Peter to keep this mailing list up and running until=20 > cloudops@ietf.org or dcops@ietf.org=20 > and cloudApps@ietf.org > or vdi@ietforg are > created. >=20 > Ron, Pls let me know what we need to do to get cloudops@ietf.org=20 > or dcops@ietf.org > created. >=20 > Peter, Is it possible to keep clouds@ietf.org > for CloudApps (with focus on VDI) > discussion. If not pls consider my request to create vdi@ietf.org=20 > , and may be we can keep the same WiKi website > to keep the contributions.. PLS let me know what you think and how > we should proceed. Thanks again. Best. Bhumip >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 12:17 PM, Spencer Dawkins=20 > > > wrote: >=20 > Just to mention one more issue ... >=20 > Peter Saint-Andre said he would request that the IETF Secretariat=20 > close this mailing list two weeks ago. >=20 > If you guys would like to have a place to discuss CloudOPS (or Data=20 > Center Ops, or ...) it would probably be great if you requested a=20 > mailing list for that. I'm thinking that Ron Bonica would be the=20 > right contact for that. >=20 > If you guys would like to have a place to discuss Virtual Desktop=20 > stuff, Peter said he might be willing to create a mailing list for=20 > that, so he would be an excellent choice as the contact for that. >=20 > I'm kind of surprised that this mailing list is still working at all > :-) >=20 > Thanks, >=20 > Spencer >=20 > ----- Original Message ----- From: "marcelo bagnulo braun"=20 > > To: > Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 2:00 PM >=20 > Subject: Re: [clouds] Thoughts on ClooudOPS >=20 >=20 > Hi, >=20 > just to point out some issues... >=20 > below... >=20 > El 11/02/11 20:48, So, Ning escribi=C3=B3: >=20 >=20 > Bhumip and all, >=20 > As discussed in this morning=E2=80=99s call, here are my personal views= on > the proposed CloudOPS WG and the related drafts. >=20 > Frameworks, high-level requirements, and best practices descriptions > on cloud infrastructure that impact multiple IETF protocols under > different areas and WGs, >=20 > If it is an OPS area WG what you are proposing, then the work you=20 > propose should fall into OPS, don't you think? (as opposed to > multiple areas) If the work you propose fall into other WG, then it > should go to the other WGs, right? >=20 >=20 > and/or protocols outside of IETF, belong to the CloudOPS WG. >=20 > If protocols are outside the IETF, then they shouldn't be defined in > the IETF, don't you agree? >=20 > New protocols that impact multiple IETF protocols under different > areas and WGs, >=20 > similar comment here, if this is an OPS WG, then it should work > within the OPS area scope again, if the protocol is being defined in > another WG, then the work should be done in that WG. >=20 >=20 > and/or protocols outside of IETF, also belong to the CloudOPS WG. >=20 > work outside the IETF, should be done, well, outside the IETF >=20 > ARMD WG=E2=80=99s work is very focused and much needed, and I voiced my= =20 > support for its establishment. However, I see difficulties in=20 > broadening its charter to make it a single and only default CloudOPS > WG. All the non-ARMD related drafts will become distraction and cause > confusion. >=20 > i agree you should leave ARMD alone. It is well defined and well > scoped problem and it is good as it currently is >=20 > In my humble opinion, the following drafts belong to the CloudOPS WG. > Many of them were presented at Cloud BoF in IETF79, and are in the > process of getting updated for IETF80. Several are new submissions > that are recently uploaded. I think what we have here is more than > one and half hours of meeting time JI really do not want to inflict > the pain on my ARMD friends. >=20 > I don't think you are approaching this from the right perspective.=20 > This is not about draft, is about real problems and concrete items > that you want to work on. You should work on defining a charter, not > in voicing for drafts that should be included in a WG that doesn't > exist yet. >=20 > In addition, all this long list seems to cover a too wide variety of=20 > topics. I would reccomend to be less ambitious, define a much scoped > work, by defining a charter (As opposed to write drafts) >=20 > my two cents >=20 > regards, marcelo >=20 >=20 >=20 > 1. Cloud Reference Framework 2. Cloud Security Framework 3. VPN > Extension for Cloud Services 4. Network Abstraction for Enterprise > and SP Class Cloud 5. Protocol Considerations for Workload Mobility > in Clouds 6. Service Management for Virtualized Cloud 7. Virtual > Network Management Information Model 8. Network Probability > Requirements and Models 9. Syslog Extension for Cloud Using Syslog > Structured Data 10. Virtual Resource Management (VRM) in Clouds >=20 > Best regards, >=20 > Ning So >=20 > Network Evolution Planning >=20 > Verizon, Inc. >=20 > (office) 972-729-7905 >=20 > (Cell) 972-955-0914 >=20 > -----------------------------------------------------------------------= - > > *From:*clouds-bounces@ietf.org =20 > [mailto:clouds-bounces@ietf.org ] *On > Behalf Of *Bhumip Khasnabish *Sent:* Thursday, February 10, 2011 > 11:46 PM *To:* clouds@ietf.org *Subject:* > [clouds] Conf call on Friday [11-February-2011] at 10 AM US/NY time >=20 > Please plan to join a conf call on *Friday, 11-Feb.-2011 starting > from 10 AM ET* (New York, USA time) >=20 > to get updates on the Clouds initiatives/activities. >=20 > [you may find the current NY/USA time (from your location) at the > following URL:=20 > http://www.worldtimeserver.com/current_time_in_US-NY.aspx ]. >=20 >=20 > Dial in number: *US Toll-free +1-866-710-5490 *If the toll-free > number does not work, pls use *+001-203-875-8973* *Passcode: 204 > 1744* >=20 > (Thanks to Mr. Ning So for providing the conf bridge). >=20 > ** >=20 > *_Proposed Agenda:_* >=20 > ** >=20 > 1. VEPC draft update -- Ning et al 2. CloudLog draft update -- Gene > and Sam 3. Data Center Operations (DCOPS) proposal update -- Ross > (with info from Ron, if any) 4. > draft-rfc-seamless-Cloud-masum-01.txt >=20 > (27.1 > >=20 KB) =E2=80=93 Masum et al, /Network Abstraction for Enterprise and SP > class Cloud: Seamless Cloud Abstraction and Interfaces / 5. Protocol > Considerations for Workload Mobility in Clouds.txt >=20 > (21.5 > >=20 KB) - Masum et al, /Protocol Considerations for Workload > Mobility in Clouds / 6. > Karavettil-et-al-IETF-Cloud-Security-Framework-11Feb2011_v2.pdf >=20 > (0.6 > >=20 MB) =E2=80=93 Suren et al, /updated cloud security framework (CSF) > slides / 7. draft-yokota-cloud-service-mobility-01.txt >=20 > (42.0 > >=20 KB) =E2=80=93 Mr. Yokota et al, /Service Management for Virtualized > Networks / 8. Virtual Desktop Infrastructure (VDI) Requirements and > Survey update =E2=80=93 Mr. Wang and Mr. Ma 9. Cloud (client and networ= k > sides) APIs update - Sam 10. VRM update -- Mr Chu et al 11. VDI > proposal expectations (further guidance) -- Peter Saint-Andre 12. VDI > proposal development -- TBD 13. Any other topics? >=20 > As always, all of the drafts and presentations are available at the > following URL: http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/app/trac/wiki/Clouds >=20 > *Next conf call*will be held on >=20 > *_Friday-18-February-2011_**starting from 10 AM ET*(New York, USA > time). >=20 > *Many Thanks for Participation and Contributions.* >=20 > Best Regards. >=20 > Bhumip Khasnabish (Mobile:+001-781-752-8003, vumip1 at gmail.com=20 > >)=20 > http://www.linkedin.com/in/bhumipkhasnabish >=20 --------------ms070408010208040406040307 Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIITzjCC BjQwggQcoAMCAQICASMwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQELBQAwfTELMAkGA1UEBhMCSUwxFjAUBgNVBAoT DVN0YXJ0Q29tIEx0ZC4xKzApBgNVBAsTIlNlY3VyZSBEaWdpdGFsIENlcnRpZmljYXRlIFNp 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RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iOk6J0s7HFQe for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2011 12:08:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from mexforward.lss.emc.com (mexforward.lss.emc.com [128.222.32.20]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D46AB3A6C32 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2011 12:08:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from hop04-l1d11-si04.isus.emc.com (HOP04-L1D11-SI04.isus.emc.com [10.254.111.24]) by mexforward.lss.emc.com (Switch-3.4.3/Switch-3.4.3) with ESMTP id p1GK9LEM016052 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 16 Feb 2011 15:09:21 -0500 Received: from mailhub.lss.emc.com (mailhubhoprd02.lss.emc.com [10.254.221.253]) by hop04-l1d11-si04.isus.emc.com (RSA Interceptor); Wed, 16 Feb 2011 15:09:09 -0500 Received: from mxhub03.corp.emc.com (mxhub03.corp.emc.com [10.254.141.105]) by mailhub.lss.emc.com (Switch-3.4.3/Switch-3.4.3) with ESMTP id p1GK8jIj002088; Wed, 16 Feb 2011 15:08:45 -0500 Received: from mx14a.corp.emc.com ([169.254.2.180]) by mxhub03.corp.emc.com ([10.254.141.105]) with mapi; Wed, 16 Feb 2011 15:08:45 -0500 From: To: Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 15:08:44 -0500 Thread-Topic: [clouds] Thoughts on CloudOPS Thread-Index: AcvOFBLfFyduGHphRLyTaUnECrDwfQAARzrg Message-ID: <7C4DFCE962635144B8FAE8CA11D0BF1E03E33375DA@MX14A.corp.emc.com> References: <14584D6EE26B314187A4F68BA206060006933C32@ASHEVS008.mcilink.com> <4D55956D.7050201@it.uc3m.es> <62B843A2D44446C2B7C8B187F47A957F@china.huawei.com> <4D5C2AD3.6020601@stpeter.im> In-Reply-To: <4D5C2AD3.6020601@stpeter.im> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-EMM-MHVC: 1 Cc: clouds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [clouds] Thoughts on CloudOPS X-BeenThere: clouds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Clouds pre-BOF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 20:08:55 -0000 KzEsIC0tRGF2aWQNCg0KPiAtLS0tLU9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLQ0KPiBGcm9tOiBjbG91 ZHMtYm91bmNlc0BpZXRmLm9yZyBbbWFpbHRvOmNsb3Vkcy1ib3VuY2VzQGlldGYub3JnXSBPbiBC ZWhhbGYgT2YgUGV0ZXIgU2FpbnQtQW5kcmUNCj4gU2VudDogV2VkbmVzZGF5LCBGZWJydWFyeSAx NiwgMjAxMSAyOjUyIFBNDQo+IFRvOiBCaHVtaXAgS2hhc25hYmlzaA0KPiBDYzogY2xvdWRzQGll dGYub3JnDQo+IFN1YmplY3Q6IFJlOiBbY2xvdWRzXSBUaG91Z2h0cyBvbiBDbG9vdWRPUFMNCj4g DQo+IEkgc2VlIG5vIHJlYXNvbiB0byBkZWxheSBjbG9zaW5nIG9mIHRoaXMgbGlzdC4NCj4gDQo+ IEluIGZhY3QsIEkgc3VnZ2VzdCB0aGF0IGl0IG1pZ2h0IGJlIG1vcmUgcHJvZHVjdGl2ZSBmb3Ig Zm9sa3Mgd2hvIGFyZSBpbnRlcmVzdGVkIGluIHRoZXNlIHRvcGljcyB0bw0KPiBzZWxmLW9yZ2Fu aXplIG9uIGxpc3RzIGhvc3RlZCBlbHNld2hlcmUsIGluc3RlYWQgb2YgY29udGludWluZyB0byBj b25zdW1lIElFVEYgYmFuZHdpZHRoIChib3RoDQo+IGVsZWN0cm9uaWMgYW5kIG1lbnRhbCkuDQo+ 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Y29tL2luL2JodW1pcGtoYXNuYWJpc2gNCj4gPg0KDQo= From gene@alertlogic.com Thu Feb 17 10:47:04 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: clouds@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: clouds@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7FB63A6D31 for ; Thu, 17 Feb 2011 10:47:04 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.265 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.265 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6AuxTQ1aKFyp for ; Thu, 17 Feb 2011 10:47:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp201.dfw.emailsrvr.com (smtp201.dfw.emailsrvr.com [67.192.241.201]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 610B23A6A0F for ; Thu, 17 Feb 2011 10:47:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp20.relay.dfw1a.emailsrvr.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id DE38B2581AF; Thu, 17 Feb 2011 13:47:34 -0500 (EST) X-Virus-Scanned: OK Received: from smtp192.mex07a.mlsrvr.com (smtp192.mex07a.mlsrvr.com [67.192.133.192]) by smtp20.relay.dfw1a.emailsrvr.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTPS id BD318258118; Thu, 17 Feb 2011 13:47:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from 34093-MBX-C01.mex07a.mlsrvr.com ([192.168.1.63]) by DFW1HUB12.mex07a.mlsrvr.com ([192.168.1.208]) with mapi; Thu, 17 Feb 2011 12:47:34 -0600 From: Gene Golovinsky To: Dan Schlitt , "Heinbockel, Bill" , "clouds@ietf.org" Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 12:47:33 -0600 Thread-Topic: [Syslog] draft-cloud-log-00 / CEE - why not IPFIX? Thread-Index: AcvOxxvimbNTmqoKTxOIAS4W5JyZrQAC/PPQ Message-ID: References: <4D5A60C8.3090000@unfix.org> <93ED0A84F9A1D74FA65021D940AA588405446C41F9@IMCMBX3.MITRE.ORG> <4D5BA85B.7040007@unfix.org> <93ED0A84F9A1D74FA65021D940AA5884054477F158@IMCMBX3.MITRE.ORG> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: Sam Johnston , Event Expression , "syslog@ietf.org" , "Common@core3.amsl.com" Subject: Re: [clouds] [Syslog] draft-cloud-log-00 / CEE - why not IPFIX? X-BeenThere: clouds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Clouds pre-BOF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 18:47:04 -0000 Is there a link to the article? --Gene -----Original Message----- From: syslog-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:syslog-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of= Dan Schlitt Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2011 11:21 AM To: Heinbockel, Bill Cc: Sam Johnston; Event Expression; syslog@ietf.org; Common@core3.amsl.com Subject: Re: [Syslog] draft-cloud-log-00 / CEE - why not IPFIX? On this topic it might be well to look at Tom Limoncelli's article in the F= ebruary Communications of the ACM. He is highly respected in the system adm= inistrator community and speaks for many of us. /dan --=20 Dan Schlitt schlitt@world.std.com On Thu, 17 Feb 2011, Heinbockel, Bill wrote: > Thanks for that, I did not realize that IPFIX had been extended beyond=20 > its netflow past. > > I don't have the time now, but I am interested in looking into it=20 > further. It does kind of remind me of ASN.1/SNMP, where we need to=20 > worry about the names/OID translation > > Also, a lot of vendors and users seem to prefer the ease of text-based=20 > protocols like Syslog for logging. I am not saying this is good or=20 > bad, but it seems to be the sweetspot -- binary is not natively human=20 > readable and XML has too much overhead. > > > William Heinbockel > The MITRE Corporation > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Jeroen Massar [mailto:jeroen@unfix.org] >> Sent: Wednesday, 16 February 2011 05:35 >> To: Heinbockel, Bill >> Cc: syslog@ietf.org; Chris Lonvick; Gene Golovinsky; Sam Johnston;=20 >> Common Event Expression >> Subject: Re: [Syslog] draft-cloud-log-00 / CEE - why not IPFIX? >> >> On 2011-02-16 06:21, Heinbockel, Bill wrote: >>> From what I understand, IPFIX is for expression of IP flows from=20 >>> network >> sensing >>> devices. >> >> For a short bit forget about the history of IPFIX, it indeed comes=20 >> from NetFlow, and thus is used quite in a network centric way, but=20 >> effectively it is a structured streaming data format. >> >>> Could you please explain how IPFIX is relevant to event and cloud=20 >>> logging >> data? >>> I understand how CEE and IPFIX may overlap for describing networking >> events, but >>> it is unclear to me how IPFIX could handle things like Windows Event=20 >>> Logs >> and >>> RHEL audit logs. >> >> There are two parts to IPFIX: Templates + Data >> >> The template describes how the data looks like, for instance, lets=20 >> take an Apache CLF log entry: >> >> 66.249.66.174 - - [16/Feb/2011:10:48:11 +0100] "GET /robots.txt=20 >> HTTP/1.1" 200 2629 "-" "Googlebot-Image/0" >> >> We can make an IPFIX template for that >> >> [ >> {4, IPv4_SRC }, >> {4, TIMESTAMP}, >> {4, HTTP_METHOD}, >> {v, URL}, >> {v, HTTP_PROTOCOL}, >> {2, HTTP_RESULT}, >> {8, OCTETS}, >> {v, HTTP_REFER}, >> {v, HTTP_USERAGENT}, >> ] >> >> The 'v' markers indicate variable fieldlengths, the others indicates=20 >> the number of bytes such a field takes. The data is then just encoded=20 >> in the above format, presto. >> >> The above is a simple example, one can also have repeating lists and=20 >> of course you could make a variable template which just includes the=20 >> fields that you actually want to look at or you could already do some=20 >> aggregation and add other fields. Templates are only sent every now=20 >> and then, as they should not change. The data is the important bit. >> >> The fieldnames are actually numbers in the data, thus very compact,=20 >> and are mapped to descriptions, data types etc, per a nice XML file=20 >> http://www.iana.org/assignments/ipfix/ipfix.xml (or .xhtml or .txt=20 >> for a more human readable version ;) for the official IANA list and=20 >> with the help of Enterprise IDs any others can easily be added. >> >> The big advantage is that you can more or less do static templates if=20 >> you want and you only need one single parser on the collector side,=20 >> thus one does not have to create another parser and collector again=20 >> for decoding other protocols, just one, the IPFIX one, and you can=20 >> optimize that really well for all kinds of scenarios. >> >> Greets, >> Jeroen > _______________________________________________ Syslog mailing list Syslog@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/syslog