From nobody Tue Jun 5 03:29:43 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dcrup@ietf.org Delivered-To: dcrup@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6806130F7E; Tue, 5 Jun 2018 03:29:40 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: dcrup@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.81.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <152819458081.18179.4618708748210660240@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2018 03:29:40 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Dcrup] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto-11.txt X-BeenThere: dcrup@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 List-Id: DKIM Crypto Update List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2018 10:29:41 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the DKIM Crypto Update WG of the IETF. Title : A new cryptographic signature method for DKIM Author : John Levine Filename : draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto-11.txt Pages : 8 Date : 2018-06-05 Abstract: This document adds a new signing algorithm to DKIM, ed25519-sha256. DKIM verifiers are required to implement this algorithm. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto-11 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto-11 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto-11 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue Jun 5 03:31:32 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dcrup@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dcrup@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C07FB130F8A for ; Tue, 5 Jun 2018 03:31:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.001 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1536-bit key) header.d=iecc.com header.b=XSRVESVR; dkim=pass (1536-bit key) header.d=taugh.com header.b=yLYJcagM Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IF7ihCdmJWnz for ; Tue, 5 Jun 2018 03:31:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gal.iecc.com (gal.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:43:6f73:7461]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 14BBE130F8D for ; Tue, 5 Jun 2018 03:31:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 6505 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2018 10:31:27 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:user-agent; s=1967.5b16667f.k1806; bh=oPSSJEYsZ9EFXCPxOTAlzeBzuF5caN8TrTw4axwUWzU=; b=XSRVESVRHi80xCHpXH1d89ZjD6PdeHdRD8PBRupWxINtsocKXGJu++ikjlJRIwnRpIu7iALXstbzTPplSLz6r+o39NFFnRCldp0mqJGHuxPHIwc9airZLBYmrK6UMBhSl3XGGmGzMwZ9KYikHAP/YFRTWxsovaQsQier7JJbnomhB9i9X3aqULJSnB5BuiiZst0qnDtAwLHOcakoo/c3BH1f0D1SkI77F/7uO0lMkLCRKjyZT6DFtcGofV8d9ip4 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=taugh.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:user-agent; s=1967.5b16667f.k1806; bh=oPSSJEYsZ9EFXCPxOTAlzeBzuF5caN8TrTw4axwUWzU=; b=yLYJcagMpx/Kb233ayHkUNTGjUVZz4Ywr6FFKfA58KHi3rXNHYPQw2mlD/QKZsmDqsRhc5jl69dHWaC+lf+/TVP/kH9LA5C8nOWi6Qe0awJC/yW3E1h3awH4psWRz2YVJra+zTZfQCVE+IGIY2P+SXgQRf0jRdTf/nxLl+9SS5IUGL/W+ARVpWhRwROaOm8+8gPjnXFMSL+UE37ucqZmoP6ysk4DXd9OZEXFNlPaMeESPKxWnWTcgFMTiceDNtXO Received: from localhost ([IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126::78:696d:6170]) by imap.iecc.com ([IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126::78:696d:6170]) with ESMTPS (TLS1.2/X.509/AEAD) via TCP6; 05 Jun 2018 10:31:27 -0000 Date: 5 Jun 2018 12:31:26 +0200 Message-ID: From: "John R Levine" To: dcrup@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <152819458081.18179.4618708748210660240@ietfa.amsl.com> References: <152819458081.18179.4618708748210660240@ietfa.amsl.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.21 (OSX 202 2017-01-01) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dcrup] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto-11.txt X-BeenThere: dcrup@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: DKIM Crypto Update List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2018 10:31:31 -0000 I hope this is the final edition. I added a two-signature example (thanks to Scott Kitterman) and picked a few minor nits. > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. > This draft is a work item of the DKIM Crypto Update WG of the IETF. > > Title : A new cryptographic signature method for DKIM > Author : John Levine > Filename : draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto-11.txt > Pages : 8 > Date : 2018-06-05 > > Abstract: > This document adds a new signing algorithm to DKIM, ed25519-sha256. > DKIM verifiers are required to implement this algorithm. From nobody Wed Jun 6 05:27:54 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dcrup@ietf.org Delivered-To: dcrup@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98710130EF2; Wed, 6 Jun 2018 05:27:44 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: dcrup@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.81.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <152828806457.6370.6619882142095013862@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2018 05:27:44 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Dcrup] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto-12.txt X-BeenThere: dcrup@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 List-Id: DKIM Crypto Update List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2018 12:27:45 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the DKIM Crypto Update WG of the IETF. Title : A new cryptographic signature method for DKIM Author : John Levine Filename : draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto-12.txt Pages : 8 Date : 2018-06-06 Abstract: This document adds a new signing algorithm to DKIM, ed25519-sha256. DKIM verifiers are required to implement this algorithm. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto-12 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto-12 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto-12 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Wed Jun 6 10:10:21 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dcrup@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dcrup@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 827DF130F66 for ; Wed, 6 Jun 2018 10:10:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.001 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=isdg.net header.b=O4bgVoQ3; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=beta.winserver.com header.b=k4iDnmkr Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oVCjnihdquzQ for ; Wed, 6 Jun 2018 10:10:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from groups.winserver.com (groups.winserver.com [76.245.57.69]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A5BB130F7E for ; Wed, 6 Jun 2018 10:10:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; d=isdg.net; s=tms1; a=rsa-sha1; c=simple/relaxed; l=1451; t=1528305009; atps=ietf.org; atpsh=sha1; h=Received:Received:Received:Received:Message-ID:Date:From: Organization:To:Subject:List-ID; bh=8XgRGJ7kfdT/4VxPvrUTTqBLmUc=; b=O4bgVoQ3pc6EPV28fiuvwPtZww96ulDJtXEle1hWdp/giFgBz+bmRhGft694oB YXX+oO46XO5eS5q4nzWxSwzhPOosy4nVsjTJglTQ6iu+tfp8sfGeoPb29EeqBSOW Bew0tMSMyE/tmLHkU/HLrBInlRTyBy/L+1o7FFC5WTQng= Received: by winserver.com (Wildcat! 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SMTP Router v7.0.454.6) for dcrup@ietf.org; Wed, 06 Jun 2018 13:01:24 -0400 Received: from [192.168.1.68] ([99.121.5.8]) by beta.winserver.com (Wildcat! SMTP v7.0.454.6) with ESMTP id 993455566.9.416740; Wed, 06 Jun 2018 13:01:23 -0400 Message-ID: <5B18156E.1060504@isdg.net> Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2018 13:10:06 -0400 From: Hector Santos Organization: Santronics Software, Inc. User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.8.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Alexey Melnikov , dcrup@ietf.org References: <20180529155705.41CC72749923@ary.qy> <1527610606.3260548.1389306840.104EE88D@webmail.messagingengine.com> In-Reply-To: <1527610606.3260548.1389306840.104EE88D@webmail.messagingengine.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dcrup] AD review of draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto-09 X-BeenThere: dcrup@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: DKIM Crypto Update List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2018 17:10:20 -0000 On 5/29/2018 12:16 PM, Alexey Melnikov wrote: > On Tue, May 29, 2018, at 4:57 PM, John Levine wrote: >> In article >> <1527583238.2346886.1388803096.0ADB2161@webmail.messagingengine.com> you >> write: >>> This is a short document, so I've started IETF LC on it. >>> >>> I have some nits though: >>> >>> Abstract >>> >>> This document adds a new signing algorithm to DKIM. >>> >>> This is a bit short, as it doesn't give a reader enough details to decide whether or not to read further. Please mention the added algorithm! >> >> How about this: >> >> This document adds a new signing algorithm, ed25519-sha256, to DKIM. >> DKIM verifiers are required to implemenent this algorithm. >> >> Other nits are fine, will fix them once we agree on the abstract. > > Yes, I think this is perfect! I believe I understand what the author is intending here, but DKIM verifiers are not required to implement this new algorithm which requires unnecessary code change, not to mention more overhead (migration double signing necessary/required). Current compliant DKIM verifiers can choose to just to stick with SHA256 and still be compliant. Not implementing this new method SHOULD NOT disqualify a perfectly valid DKIM verifier as a legitimately secured DKIM signer (and verifier) using just SHA256. Instead, maybe the abstract should explain why it should be implemented. Is there something wrong with SHA256? etc. -- HLS From nobody Wed Jun 6 10:14:55 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dcrup@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dcrup@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 265CB130F66 for ; Wed, 6 Jun 2018 10:14:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.711 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.711 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=akamai.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ira5-N5NqOrM for ; Wed, 6 Jun 2018 10:14:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx0b-00190b01.pphosted.com (mx0b-00190b01.pphosted.com [IPv6:2620:100:9005:57f::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 98531127148 for ; Wed, 6 Jun 2018 10:14:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pps.filterd (m0050102.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by m0050102.ppops.net-00190b01. 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Wed, 6 Jun 2018 13:14:42 -0400 Received: from email.msg.corp.akamai.com ([172.27.25.31]) by prod-mail-ppoint1.akamai.com with ESMTP id 2jbpkbaweq-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Wed, 06 Jun 2018 13:14:41 -0400 Received: from USTX2EX-DAG1MB1.msg.corp.akamai.com (172.27.27.101) by ustx2ex-dag1mb1.msg.corp.akamai.com (172.27.27.101) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1365.1; Wed, 6 Jun 2018 12:14:40 -0500 Received: from USTX2EX-DAG1MB1.msg.corp.akamai.com ([172.27.6.131]) by ustx2ex-dag1mb1.msg.corp.akamai.com ([172.27.6.131]) with mapi id 15.00.1365.000; Wed, 6 Jun 2018 12:14:40 -0500 From: "Salz, Rich" To: Hector Santos , Alexey Melnikov , "dcrup@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Dcrup] AD review of draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto-09 Thread-Index: AQHT9yi9Ve7OvUKN0kCu5TllZ38yVKRHMOAAgAAFgQCADKGNAP//vjeA Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2018 17:14:39 +0000 Message-ID: <7563C238-B5DB-4BD6-AB21-AE6C6F92B7A4@akamai.com> References: <20180529155705.41CC72749923@ary.qy> <1527610606.3260548.1389306840.104EE88D@webmail.messagingengine.com> <5B18156E.1060504@isdg.net> In-Reply-To: <5B18156E.1060504@isdg.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/10.d.1.180523 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [172.19.46.16] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:, , definitions=2018-06-06_07:, , signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=763 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1805220000 definitions=main-1806060195 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:, , definitions=2018-06-06_07:, , signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1011 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=703 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1805220000 definitions=main-1806060195 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dcrup] AD review of draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto-09 X-BeenThere: dcrup@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: DKIM Crypto Update List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2018 17:14:52 -0000 SGVjdG9yLA0KDQpZb3UgaGF2ZSBvYmplY3RlZCBtdWx0aXBsZSB0aW1lcy4gIE5vYm9keSBlbHNl IGluIHRoZSBXRyBzaGFyZXMgeW91ciB2aWV3cy4NCg0KU3BlYWtpbmcgYXMgY28tY2hhaXIsDQoJ L3IkDQogDQoNCg== From nobody Wed Jun 6 11:18:43 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dcrup@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dcrup@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08D9912785F for ; 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SMTP Router v7.0.454.6) for dcrup@ietf.org; Wed, 06 Jun 2018 14:09:46 -0400 Received: from [192.168.1.68] ([99.121.5.8]) by beta.winserver.com (Wildcat! SMTP v7.0.454.6) with ESMTP id 997558504.9.353564; Wed, 06 Jun 2018 14:09:46 -0400 Message-ID: <5B182576.4080701@isdg.net> Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2018 14:18:30 -0400 From: Hector Santos Organization: Santronics Software, Inc. User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.8.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Salz, Rich" , Alexey Melnikov , "dcrup@ietf.org" References: <20180529155705.41CC72749923@ary.qy> <1527610606.3260548.1389306840.104EE88D@webmail.messagingengine.com> <5B18156E.1060504@isdg.net> <7563C238-B5DB-4BD6-AB21-AE6C6F92B7A4@akamai.com> In-Reply-To: <7563C238-B5DB-4BD6-AB21-AE6C6F92B7A4@akamai.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dcrup] AD review of draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto-09 X-BeenThere: dcrup@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: DKIM Crypto Update List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2018 18:18:42 -0000 How do you conclude no one else in this WG shares my views? In this particular view regarding a last minute LC critical change? Perhaps, within the IETF WGs, critical changes should be done with more time to consider it, not made in the last minute LC. For the record, I'm objecting to a last minute LC draft abstract change that requires all DKIM verifiers to implement this hashing method when it is redundant in terms of security, i.e. nothing wrong with the current standard SHA256. It instantly makes all verifiers non-DKIM compliant with the updated STD which in fact, you don't know if all implementators are able to do it anytime soon, if ever. Thanks On 6/6/2018 1:14 PM, Salz, Rich wrote: > Hector, > > You have objected multiple times. Nobody else in the WG shares your views. > > Speaking as co-chair, > /r$ > > > _______________________________________________ > Dcrup mailing list > Dcrup@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dcrup > > -- HLS From nobody Wed Jun 6 13:51:58 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dcrup@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dcrup@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C0C0130FDB for ; Wed, 6 Jun 2018 13:51:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.711 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.711 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=akamai.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QyjV7KQUZxS0 for ; Wed, 6 Jun 2018 13:51:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx0a-00190b01.pphosted.com (mx0a-00190b01.pphosted.com [IPv6:2620:100:9001:583::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C2CFB130DD0 for ; Wed, 6 Jun 2018 13:51:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pps.filterd (m0050093.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by m0050093.ppops.net-00190b01. 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Wed, 6 Jun 2018 16:51:47 -0400 Received: from email.msg.corp.akamai.com ([172.27.25.34]) by prod-mail-ppoint4.akamai.com with ESMTP id 2jbpjw4nev-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Wed, 06 Jun 2018 16:51:47 -0400 Received: from USTX2EX-DAG1MB1.msg.corp.akamai.com (172.27.27.101) by ustx2ex-dag1mb4.msg.corp.akamai.com (172.27.27.104) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1365.1; Wed, 6 Jun 2018 15:51:46 -0500 Received: from USTX2EX-DAG1MB1.msg.corp.akamai.com ([172.27.6.131]) by ustx2ex-dag1mb1.msg.corp.akamai.com ([172.27.6.131]) with mapi id 15.00.1365.000; Wed, 6 Jun 2018 15:51:46 -0500 From: "Salz, Rich" To: Hector Santos , Alexey Melnikov , "dcrup@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Dcrup] AD review of draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto-09 Thread-Index: AQHT9yi9Ve7OvUKN0kCu5TllZ38yVKRHMOAAgAAFgQCADKGNAP//vjeAgABU5QD//+fFAA== Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2018 20:51:46 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20180529155705.41CC72749923@ary.qy> <1527610606.3260548.1389306840.104EE88D@webmail.messagingengine.com> <5B18156E.1060504@isdg.net> <7563C238-B5DB-4BD6-AB21-AE6C6F92B7A4@akamai.com> <5B182576.4080701@isdg.net> In-Reply-To: <5B182576.4080701@isdg.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/10.d.1.180523 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [172.19.46.16] Content-Type: text/plain; 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charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Jun 6, 2018, at 4:51 PM, Salz, Rich = wrote: >> How do you conclude no one else in this WG shares my views? In this part= icular view regarding a last minute LC critical change? >=20 > Please be explicit about which draft and which change you dislike. The la= test says Ed25516 with SHA256. It adds a new signing mechanism. The same poster made the same objection in February, so what is cited isn't a= late change, unless we're now going to embark on a debate of the vagaries o= f "required to implement" vs. "MUST implement": https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/dcrup/current/msg00764.html Stan= --Apple-Mail-B951272E-0DF1-4679-9538-0BD8C8E8C7D7 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Jun 6, 20= 18, at 4:51 PM, Salz, Rich <rsalz=3D40akamai.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:

<= /div>
How do y= ou conclude no one else in this WG shares my views?  In this particular view regarding a last minute LC critical change?

Please be explicit about which draft and which change y= ou dislike.  The latest says Ed25516 with SHA256.  It adds a new s= igning mechanism.

The same poste= r made the same objection in February, so what is cited isn't a late change,= unless we're now going to embark on a debate of the vagaries of "required t= o implement" vs. "MUST implement":



=
Stan
= --Apple-Mail-B951272E-0DF1-4679-9538-0BD8C8E8C7D7-- From nobody Wed Jun 6 15:23:01 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dcrup@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dcrup@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D60FD130DEC for ; Wed, 6 Jun 2018 15:22:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.721 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.721 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTTPS_HTTP_MISMATCH=1.989, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=akamai.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mgbq4WtQRBae for ; Wed, 6 Jun 2018 15:22:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 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ustx2ex-dag1mb1.msg.corp.akamai.com ([172.27.6.131]) with mapi id 15.00.1365.000; Wed, 6 Jun 2018 17:20:46 -0500 From: "Salz, Rich" To: Hector Santos CC: "dcrup@ietf.org" , Alexey Melnikov Thread-Topic: [Dcrup] AD review of draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto-09 Thread-Index: AQHT9yi9Ve7OvUKN0kCu5TllZ38yVKRHMOAAgAAFgQCADKGNAP//vjeAgABU5QD//+fFAIAAVZQA///DSQA= Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2018 22:20:46 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20180529155705.41CC72749923@ary.qy> <1527610606.3260548.1389306840.104EE88D@webmail.messagingengine.com> <5B18156E.1060504@isdg.net> <7563C238-B5DB-4BD6-AB21-AE6C6F92B7A4@akamai.com> <5B182576.4080701@isdg.net> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/10.d.1.180523 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [172.19.46.16] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_AB8EA33E64B8423EBF1C3F3AA1E61047akamaicom_" 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([2a00:1940:107::1:2f:0] helo=lap.dom.ain) with esmtpsa Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dcrup] AD review of draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto-09 X-BeenThere: dcrup@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: DKIM Crypto Update List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2018 22:32:25 -0000 On 06/06/2018 07:18 PM, Hector Santos wrote: > For the record, I'm objecting to a last minute LC draft abstract change > that requires all DKIM verifiers to implement this hashing method I'd assume that DKIM verifiers not claiming to implement the RFC this document becomes are not bound by it. Perhaps the wording could be modified to not make the inference possible? -- Jeremy From nobody Wed Jun 6 16:16:39 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dcrup@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dcrup@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D631F1277C8 for ; Wed, 6 Jun 2018 16:16:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.711 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.711 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=akamai.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Xch4M3qQsCxs for ; Wed, 6 Jun 2018 16:16:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx0b-00190b01.pphosted.com (mx0b-00190b01.pphosted.com [IPv6:2620:100:9005:57f::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5BF45130DF2 for ; 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Thu, 07 Jun 2018 00:16:11 +0100 Received: from pps.filterd (prod-mail-ppoint4.akamai.com [127.0.0.1]) by prod-mail-ppoint4.akamai.com (8.16.0.21/8.16.0.21) with SMTP id w56NFjh6021735; Wed, 6 Jun 2018 19:16:10 -0400 Received: from email.msg.corp.akamai.com ([172.27.27.25]) by prod-mail-ppoint4.akamai.com with ESMTP id 2jbpjw52hv-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Wed, 06 Jun 2018 19:16:10 -0400 Received: from USTX2EX-DAG1MB1.msg.corp.akamai.com (172.27.27.101) by ustx2ex-dag1mb4.msg.corp.akamai.com (172.27.27.104) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1365.1; Wed, 6 Jun 2018 18:16:09 -0500 Received: from USTX2EX-DAG1MB1.msg.corp.akamai.com ([172.27.6.131]) by ustx2ex-dag1mb1.msg.corp.akamai.com ([172.27.6.131]) with mapi id 15.00.1365.000; Wed, 6 Jun 2018 18:16:09 -0500 From: "Salz, Rich" To: Jeremy Harris , "dcrup@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Dcrup] AD review of draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto-09 Thread-Index: AQHT9yi9Ve7OvUKN0kCu5TllZ38yVKRHMOAAgAAFgQCADKGNAP//vjeAgABU5QCAAEbqAP//yOaA Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2018 23:16:09 +0000 Message-ID: <05EA2FAB-67CC-40FB-9E09-566C91A2BA54@akamai.com> References: <20180529155705.41CC72749923@ary.qy> <1527610606.3260548.1389306840.104EE88D@webmail.messagingengine.com> <5B18156E.1060504@isdg.net> <7563C238-B5DB-4BD6-AB21-AE6C6F92B7A4@akamai.com> <5B182576.4080701@isdg.net> <9656afc8-c28d-b7d1-356e-3cfbeb309c98@wizmail.org> In-Reply-To: <9656afc8-c28d-b7d1-356e-3cfbeb309c98@wizmail.org> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/10.d.1.180523 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [172.19.46.16] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <638274718DCF984389665E3053061B82@akamai.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:, , definitions=2018-06-06_10:, , signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=744 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1805220000 definitions=main-1806060256 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:, , definitions=2018-06-06_10:, , signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1011 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=674 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1805220000 definitions=main-1806060256 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dcrup] AD review of draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto-09 X-BeenThere: dcrup@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: DKIM Crypto Update List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2018 23:16:36 -0000 PiAgICBQZXJoYXBzIHRoZSB3b3JkaW5nIGNvdWxkIGJlIG1vZGlmaWVkIHRvIG5vdCBtYWtlIHRo ZSBpbmZlcmVuY2UNCiAgICBwb3NzaWJsZT8NCg0KV2h5PyAgV2hhdCBvdGhlciBSRkMncyBkbyB0 aGlzPw0KDQo= From nobody Wed Jun 6 17:25:42 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dcrup@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dcrup@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43069131050 for ; 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Wed, 06 Jun 2018 17:25:31 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:ab3:a04:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Wed, 6 Jun 2018 17:25:31 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20180529155705.41CC72749923@ary.qy> <1527610606.3260548.1389306840.104EE88D@webmail.messagingengine.com> <5B18156E.1060504@isdg.net> <7563C238-B5DB-4BD6-AB21-AE6C6F92B7A4@akamai.com> <5B182576.4080701@isdg.net> From: denis bider Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2018 19:25:31 -0500 Message-ID: To: "Salz, Rich" Cc: Hector Santos , "dcrup@ietf.org" , Alexey Melnikov Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000036f276056e0252a6" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dcrup] AD review of draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto-09 X-BeenThere: dcrup@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: DKIM Crypto Update List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2018 00:25:39 -0000 --00000000000036f276056e0252a6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This seems to me a strong argument that the change is an editorial one, and that the substance is not new. Hector, my understanding is that a principal reason for Ed25519 is so that signers can use a strong algorithm when they would otherwise need to use short RSA keys (e.g. 1024-bit). These are signers that are restricted to using DNS middleware which prevents them from publishing a 2048-bit RSA key due to size restrictions. They can however publish an Ed25519 key. If verifiers are not required to support Ed25519, this thwarts a principal reason to have it in the first place. On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 5:20 PM, Salz, Rich < rsalz=3D40akamai.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote: > So Hector, is the message Stan referenced what you are objecting to? > > > > Standards evolve. > > > > I repeat my question: > > > Please be explicit about which draft and which change you dislike. The > latest says Ed25516 with SHA256. It adds a new signing mechanism. > > > > > > - The same poster made the same objection in February, so what is > cited isn't a late change, unless we're now going to embark on a debat= e of > the vagaries of "required to implement" vs. "MUST implement": > > > > - https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/dcrup/current/msg00764.html > > > > > > If so, it was (a) not last-minute; and (b) really an editorial change. > > > > I still maintain you=E2=80=99re in the rough here, and the WG has consens= us around > this draft. Please provide more information, and details, to show that I > am wrong. > > > > /r$ > > > > _______________________________________________ > Dcrup mailing list > Dcrup@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dcrup > > --00000000000036f276056e0252a6 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
This seems to me a strong argument that the change is an e= ditorial one, and that the substance is not new.

Hector,= my understanding is that a principal reason for Ed25519 is so that signers= can use a strong algorithm when they would otherwise need to use short RSA= keys (e.g. 1024-bit). These are signers that are restricted to using DNS m= iddleware which prevents them from publishing a 2048-bit RSA key due to siz= e restrictions. They can however publish an Ed25519 key.

If verifiers are not required to support Ed25519, this thwarts a pri= ncipal reason to have it in the first place.

On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 5:20 PM, Salz= , Rich <rsalz=3D40akamai.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:

So Hector, is the message Stan referenced what you a= re objecting to?

=C2=A0

Standards evolve.

=C2=A0

I repeat my question:


Please be explicit about which draft and which change you dislike.=C2=A0 Th= e latest says Ed25516 with SHA256.=C2=A0 It adds a new signing mechanism.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

  • The same poster made the same objection in February, so what is cited i= sn't a late change, unless we're now going to embark on a debate of= the vagaries of "required to implement" vs. "MUST implement":

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

If so, it was (a) not last-minute; and (b) really an= editorial change.

=C2=A0

I still maintain you=E2=80=99re in the rough here, a= nd the WG has consensus around this draft.=C2=A0 Please provide more inform= ation, and details, to show that I am wrong.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 /r$

=C2=A0


_______________________________________________
Dcrup mailing list
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https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dcrup


--00000000000036f276056e0252a6-- From nobody Thu Jun 7 00:39:28 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dcrup@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dcrup@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25842130E8F for ; Thu, 7 Jun 2018 00:39:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.402 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.402 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.248, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ew6Y81Df7ll5 for ; Thu, 7 Jun 2018 00:39:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qt0-x231.google.com (mail-qt0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c0d::231]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8E8F012426A for ; Thu, 7 Jun 2018 00:39:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qt0-x231.google.com with SMTP id x34-v6so9194080qtk.5 for ; Thu, 07 Jun 2018 00:39:23 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=Uwi9q5UGoIEG8LQsnGZviO+5w1U61zAmUcMhz/eC9Qc=; b=uKWfECUvJqG+g7YRIBOKkAqGtFDSopES2kpubUZkFH9BsdwYaJpZr8PBhR5quR75hG oA2rf/zSCDs1ia/CKMUIHvrvDIRdEVSGbSkMI174sDJ2E1z8lDoZZdsVJn7gGF0Ysh0d zLQkSw+YUhMZ8Bf7cwgla86/BhtV/I13JDAXuYRTACNhBwqLpFVt2vPBUpP4JXsAZJyy FQwZH40WdVgUz0pdIrHjBSdg+cfIa2l2ZtGvMQ/tTvf4Wqz+ObB1x86ND36C6RKhjceW m+9xZDBjLT7Km8hs2+1JWp3+aB+wzyEMZQ/TMFoGT9r3VOtPZwBYhbABZQbk/OvlthUy zuEQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=Uwi9q5UGoIEG8LQsnGZviO+5w1U61zAmUcMhz/eC9Qc=; b=YWbXdzV2tjh4543YDav4PR3NGxrw2z/+ZK5GAJQBvQuOQc57FhKlQRIkFWivKtO56k hi6t+NiHVSW7NhdxTCi3QBuqsocoO72OaTnSIdCi6+O2BLHnwAgE5CaKH2F/+AClgNDc JCFMeGlukVKUy+kPkS1tiQnMJE5Ue1wOt9KVWTsLLOrHMZw3a+GMmfym9HIVAuqmgM31 vdEBw4yZo+f1cQrkWZHjThKu2qt+yYaUPHvcgeCRD7GBgt/V8Kp3gdfyQ3E7NNrWAVjv yv9EvqsnU0ybPaY7AWkUiZzI63V2QPlcSp7RJAwfbr8gm8Tkc52UytnkeFK7hk0M1UHS Jtvg== X-Gm-Message-State: APt69E1bE/TtXd7fSQaf6On/U8PuKWxwZ+xvmf4SAEno5udHRoL9c5V/ e7C6n4KMWRvRkquyPv02Kk+AZnhsGjuKZDuSa2c= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADUXVKLeGEHdyzT2hD/djtt4eVGRYkNl86CBNWF7RyH8oD+bNVcFkGfx7XmRAv06fVzCsxwo9umtU9DxeUimNqEfUJ0= X-Received: by 2002:ac8:162e:: with SMTP id p43-v6mr667674qtj.56.1528357162615; Thu, 07 Jun 2018 00:39:22 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: barryleiba.mailing.lists@gmail.com Received: by 2002:ac8:36aa:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Thu, 7 Jun 2018 00:39:22 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20180529155705.41CC72749923@ary.qy> <1527610606.3260548.1389306840.104EE88D@webmail.messagingengine.com> <5B18156E.1060504@isdg.net> <7563C238-B5DB-4BD6-AB21-AE6C6F92B7A4@akamai.com> <5B182576.4080701@isdg.net> From: Barry Leiba Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2018 09:39:22 +0200 X-Google-Sender-Auth: T_YeJmyYtwA4D1nJnkb2RQ3D_74 Message-ID: To: "Salz, Rich" Cc: Hector Santos , Alexey Melnikov , "dcrup@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dcrup] AD review of draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto-09 X-BeenThere: dcrup@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: DKIM Crypto Update List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2018 07:39:26 -0000 I, for one, *do* support an editorial change here, primarily because I don't like having a normative requirement appear only in the abstract. I think no change to the abstract is necessary, but I would like to see the following change in Section 3: OLD This is an additional DKIM signature algorithm added to Section 3.3 of [RFC6376] as envisioned in Section 3.3.4 of [RFC6376]. NEW This is an additional DKIM signature algorithm added to Section 3.3 of [RFC6376] as envisioned in Section 3.3.4 of [RFC6376]. DKIM verifiers are REQUIRED to implement this algorithm so that they can interoperate with signers that use it. END Barry On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 10:51 PM, Salz, Rich wrote: >> How do you conclude no one else in this WG shares my views? In this > particular view regarding a last minute LC critical change? > > Please be explicit about which draft and which change you dislike. The latest says Ed25516 with SHA256. It adds a new signing mechanism. > > > _______________________________________________ > Dcrup mailing list > Dcrup@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dcrup From nobody Thu Jun 7 02:26:15 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dcrup@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dcrup@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72C60130FAE for ; Thu, 7 Jun 2018 02:26:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.751 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.751 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1536-bit key) header.d=iecc.com header.b=uzswzGtr; dkim=pass (1536-bit key) header.d=taugh.com header.b=VkbdDDcy Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id b3oGI76QiFXZ for ; Thu, 7 Jun 2018 02:26:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gal.iecc.com (gal.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:43:6f73:7461]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1FD30130EBE for ; Thu, 7 Jun 2018 02:26:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 29761 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2018 09:26:03 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=743e.5b18fa2b.k1806; bh=mLEM4z8fa8VFWd06BvAAHAWIidq+eIkiZTgG6gXRrvU=; b=uzswzGtrYniJORcUVyf+DVlG8t0CA+t91B9timEVdyoZisCMdvyuMHJjjzpK74wPiUoUZFhM+tYBbagIKsAJc6GMqBzEnWKS88/iplxOO2d0eSF1f0IhWGVl3k6z6oPsWJyp3xe0YsR+nYUInrpoAH6DmERBKmH+epdNXwWcKDar+opSUxY+TmDEFXdw0h7ggjwzOk/i92Ve5DEaROVTlvqUXiKw1ddACX0rlzlkbjHNbt/AYWlAzRjCvVSdLag9 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=taugh.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=743e.5b18fa2b.k1806; bh=mLEM4z8fa8VFWd06BvAAHAWIidq+eIkiZTgG6gXRrvU=; b=VkbdDDcyBuw0uteVbGFeTX5z5MvF1h2WEhuOEPngk4QHokRzWPamnQLZ0bovBoaPK8FJVTtzr/8mNZs2bla/aWD1ZHtR8OEqGeEMQhdYhwOt9XUu4baeu/6+nOdhmkPVILsHq9c51q4UrBq5O7JN7Lktf+kA4Wc9BkXyog8hdDiEAzOC0OXlmNuBtkPfvQz2UdxEZh2MG7K16VhWIuT1Lv6Z1rhXpQ1J1hVopdFmxA5/oGCQv5IakWGrElE94HLp Received: from ary.local ([IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126::78:696d:6170]) by imap.iecc.com ([IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126::78:696d:6170]) with ESMTP via TCP6; 07 Jun 2018 09:26:03 -0000 Received: by ary.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 55C1A27BE8BF; Thu, 7 Jun 2018 11:26:02 +0200 (CEST) Date: 7 Jun 2018 11:26:02 +0200 Message-Id: <20180607092603.55C1A27BE8BF@ary.local> From: "John Levine" To: dcrup@ietf.org Cc: jgh@wizmail.org In-Reply-To: <9656afc8-c28d-b7d1-356e-3cfbeb309c98@wizmail.org> Organization: Taughannock Networks X-Headerized: yes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dcrup] AD review of draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto-09 X-BeenThere: dcrup@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: DKIM Crypto Update List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2018 09:26:12 -0000 In article <9656afc8-c28d-b7d1-356e-3cfbeb309c98@wizmail.org> you write: >On 06/06/2018 07:18 PM, Hector Santos wrote: >> For the record, I'm objecting to a last minute LC draft abstract change >> that requires all DKIM verifiers to implement this hashing method > >I'd assume that DKIM verifiers not claiming to implement the RFC this >document becomes are not bound by it. Standards track RFCs give advice on how to build systems that interoperate. We are not the Protocol Police, if you don't want to do what they say, you don't have to. Your system probably won't interoperate as well, but that's your choice. I agree that there is nothing new here. R's, John From nobody Thu Jun 7 02:30:09 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dcrup@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dcrup@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F448130FBB for ; Thu, 7 Jun 2018 02:30:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.752 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.752 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1536-bit key) header.d=iecc.com header.b=dWM8SQ+p; dkim=pass (1536-bit key) header.d=taugh.com header.b=a1B8BGpW Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AgN-RgJh7vTs for ; Thu, 7 Jun 2018 02:30:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gal.iecc.com (gal.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:43:6f73:7461]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6E65F130EBE for ; Thu, 7 Jun 2018 02:30:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 30557 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2018 09:30:03 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=775b.5b18fb1b.k1806; bh=hvSqsapUt8juw92zgFLm/5tS1V5jjiPJW3Vfemp9gpc=; b=dWM8SQ+pS7XI3IoepBifaCtg38n71nBe4cuDw1REbLafeNY060oFGte+YlVzLyaESHETqjc0JtSReVhRoNGcggPUBghsx7Knbm+RJ/bwAq8rgAmwrHAbWMt2uHrR/aUaS22W01gLn8S9VooyqER9HhUEckCn5ALsNcmp3h0y5xXxuG/3nSZoHRpeq1wvYBWhouzgThHwgkDXzaUXHqtOqxrAxKVDUARz7tqFAxdfnRFyFYwvGYg4GJZYFB8XYnXH DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=taugh.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=775b.5b18fb1b.k1806; bh=hvSqsapUt8juw92zgFLm/5tS1V5jjiPJW3Vfemp9gpc=; b=a1B8BGpWL2ak9Vn/5TKWO7GvtOXNRRHedH84jBYp77a2eq9wldukvQaGBAAz2NcmYPBhz0NMNB0Sx224abrtjneO2CniaEw6j2tSZ5pD/jkVpKPsUfNcKdI7qmVMU29sj+AXDPQT1FVnSGTXmozZtuXY/K4ZaWQ8qc+mYelxHu+bwRibsFyB3OS/qIOWiYj7YonbgNtbiZgGUpXZ+R1rV13r6RkPO+DT19//gpBM0HFjEQZKRcDHCgBBxvmhWWL1 Received: from ary.local ([IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126::78:696d:6170]) by imap.iecc.com ([IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126::78:696d:6170]) with ESMTP via TCP6; 07 Jun 2018 09:30:03 -0000 Received: by ary.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 5CE0D27BE93F; Thu, 7 Jun 2018 11:30:02 +0200 (CEST) Date: 7 Jun 2018 11:30:02 +0200 Message-Id: <20180607093003.5CE0D27BE93F@ary.local> From: "John Levine" To: dcrup@ietf.org Cc: barryleiba@computer.org In-Reply-To: Organization: Taughannock Networks X-Headerized: yes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dcrup] AD review of draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto-09 X-BeenThere: dcrup@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: DKIM Crypto Update List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2018 09:30:06 -0000 In article you write: >I, for one, *do* support an editorial change here, primarily because I >don't like having a normative requirement appear only in the abstract. It's in section 5: 5. Key and algorithm choice and strength Section 3.3 of [RFC6376] describes DKIM's hash and signature algorithms. It is updated as follows: Signers SHOULD implement and verifiers MUST implement the ed25519-sha256 algorithm. From nobody Thu Jun 7 02:33:07 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dcrup@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dcrup@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8623130FF0 for ; Thu, 7 Jun 2018 02:33:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.121 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.121 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.248, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wWQXgB_k2Xgy for ; Thu, 7 Jun 2018 02:33:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-it0-f50.google.com (mail-it0-f50.google.com [209.85.214.50]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DDB69130FE9 for ; Thu, 7 Jun 2018 02:33:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-it0-f50.google.com with SMTP id u4-v6so11994533itg.0 for ; Thu, 07 Jun 2018 02:33:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=e0Bdu6/4gpKto1tMvn/I9WJJGJl6WzJQDuEC18z5dWM=; b=S3ZNI+z/+hY6jMs/ATuwtWhhGpGjXNX2uoORszr11l7tUFgZuvUKyzWlNlmxA6hl83 aOVNac/sd05tJS9sHaVRV+sXOpyo5ijILV+jPH9oNeCXIQF3AYhk9jdmqIOZqwSccFuJ 51dE3X2ablLiFN7DxggGFO4dmVNOy7Wu2dxbWQdFp8fA4eG5vqGg0U3duoC+uNASP7Aw /QEq3HzGKhJhDvEEUmhyng7LtOacwb61wXTBhdgJPLci1XoLTCBQU6ivLyfNa1sZmzPU dIjo8qyIVUZ7vT0HRIPMkQVqirlwZpv9KwgLBGn9kC3ZRp1bV/vBGVabx6lCvttXBpu/ hgnQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APt69E0B/DJEInmQGc4K5BMbKN+1eAzDmFGwknMfzsQ6D9XSf+MAFxTs jXvvDBjRNHpPL84IPESb29FetEReKZMP9g+6GT3A7A== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADUXVKJrhpC6hKUAo1MLgQgB0trtT5Ao1oGFn7HoMVsMY6nVA6z6lGSehLt/me9PIRsK3dGEwszVUn++NVbkrSPTp9M= X-Received: by 2002:a24:f007:: with SMTP id s7-v6mr1261347ith.15.1528363982000; Thu, 07 Jun 2018 02:33:02 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20180607093003.5CE0D27BE93F@ary.local> In-Reply-To: <20180607093003.5CE0D27BE93F@ary.local> From: Barry Leiba Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2018 11:32:50 +0200 Message-ID: To: John Levine Cc: dcrup@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000003c3a06056e09f861" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dcrup] AD review of draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto-09 X-BeenThere: dcrup@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: DKIM Crypto Update List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2018 09:33:06 -0000 --0000000000003c3a06056e09f861 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Ha, I missed that; thanks. Barry On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 11:30 AM John Levine wrote: > In article < > CAC4RtVAbV8BdARZEYmA7ah9pUCX5HfUW+NUQn_4qhFqn185Neg@mail.gmail.com> you > write: > >I, for one, *do* support an editorial change here, primarily because I > >don't like having a normative requirement appear only in the abstract. > > It's in section 5: > > 5. Key and algorithm choice and strength > > Section 3.3 of [RFC6376] describes DKIM's hash and signature > algorithms. It is updated as follows: > > Signers SHOULD implement and verifiers MUST implement the > ed25519-sha256 algorithm. > > -- Barry -- Barry Leiba (barryleiba@computer.org) http://internetmessagingtechnology.org/ --0000000000003c3a06056e09f861 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Ha, I missed that; thanks.

Barry

On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 11:30 AM John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
In article <CAC4RtVAbV8BdAR= ZEYmA7ah9pUCX5HfUW+NUQn_4qhFqn185Neg@mail.gmail.com> you write:
>I, for one, *do* support an editorial change here, primarily because I<= br> >don't like having a normative requirement appear only in the abstra= ct.

It's in section 5:

5.=C2=A0 Key and algorithm choice and strength

=C2=A0 =C2=A0Section 3.3 of [RFC6376] describes DKIM's hash and signatu= re
=C2=A0 =C2=A0algorithms.=C2=A0 It is updated as follows:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0Signers SHOULD implement and verifiers MUST implement the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0ed25519-sha256 algorithm.

--
Barry
--
Barry Leiba =C2=A0(barryleiba@computer.= org)
http://internetmessagingtechnology.org/
--0000000000003c3a06056e09f861-- From nobody Thu Jun 7 09:39:15 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dcrup@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dcrup@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3391130F62 for ; Thu, 7 Jun 2018 09:39:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.001 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=isdg.net header.b=SIvSFAu1; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=beta.winserver.com header.b=EfdwPmhP Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oYjB6EHEBiYJ for ; Thu, 7 Jun 2018 09:39:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.catinthebox.net (pop3.winserver.com [76.245.57.69]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0480130F6A for ; Thu, 7 Jun 2018 09:39:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; d=isdg.net; s=tms1; a=rsa-sha1; c=simple/relaxed; l=1325; t=1528389537; atps=ietf.org; atpsh=sha1; h=Received:Received:Received:Received:Message-ID:Date:From: Organization:To:Subject:List-ID; bh=xVae16faC+2X0FK+YZI7/2uk5V0=; b=SIvSFAu1r9AyaJQp+f4JVJ725dQ4AjYG/DV5sCa8LXYQHOIX+UGVdKZHd+vgL8 d6r03/pLAtlqPIfVMIFeOLR4vyDsiInhRWpJDngPxSLbgfjfZj24pmE3eivAUB57 ODhTXtpjVXAMsgX7cl5HqQTMr8Poz6ZOA45lL6PWYD8cc= Received: by winserver.com (Wildcat! 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SMTP Router v7.0.454.6) for dcrup@ietf.org; Thu, 07 Jun 2018 12:30:12 -0400 Received: from [192.168.1.68] ([99.121.5.8]) by beta.winserver.com (Wildcat! SMTP v7.0.454.6) with ESMTP id 1077984238.9.410664; Thu, 07 Jun 2018 12:30:11 -0400 Message-ID: <5B195FA2.5060908@isdg.net> Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2018 12:38:58 -0400 From: Hector Santos Organization: Santronics Software, Inc. User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.8.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Barry Leiba , "Salz, Rich" CC: "dcrup@ietf.org" , Alexey Melnikov References: <20180529155705.41CC72749923@ary.qy> <1527610606.3260548.1389306840.104EE88D@webmail.messagingengine.com> <5B18156E.1060504@isdg.net> <7563C238-B5DB-4BD6-AB21-AE6C6F92B7A4@akamai.com> <5B182576.4080701@isdg.net> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dcrup] AD review of draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto-09 X-BeenThere: dcrup@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: DKIM Crypto Update List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2018 16:39:14 -0000 Thanks for your input Barry. I personally believe its more of a technical sales abstract that I was thinking will help. The normative language was already in the draft, not required for the abstract and I don't think it generally done that way, but maybe this is the trend. It could scare potential implementators when they just read the published abstract with no details. "Oh, I have to do this? I don't think I will worry about that for now." Denis had some good input with some "tech sales" points. That said, I remove my objection to the abstract change. Thanks -- HLS On 6/7/2018 3:39 AM, Barry Leiba wrote: > I, for one, *do* support an editorial change here, primarily because I > don't like having a normative requirement appear only in the abstract. > I think no change to the abstract is necessary, but I would like to > see the following change in Section 3: > > OLD > This is an additional DKIM signature algorithm added to Section 3.3 > of [RFC6376] as envisioned in Section 3.3.4 of [RFC6376]. > > NEW > This is an additional DKIM signature algorithm added to Section 3.3 > of [RFC6376] as envisioned in Section 3.3.4 of [RFC6376]. DKIM > verifiers are REQUIRED to implement this algorithm so that they > can interoperate with signers that use it. > > END > > Barry From nobody Mon Jun 11 09:22:35 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dcrup@ietf.org Delivered-To: dcrup@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72B3C131011; Mon, 11 Jun 2018 09:22:23 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Pete Resnick To: Cc: dcrup@ietf.org, ietf@ietf.org, draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto.all@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.81.2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <152873414342.2872.16681801090252484956@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2018 09:22:23 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Dcrup] Genart last call review of draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto-12 X-BeenThere: dcrup@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 List-Id: DKIM Crypto Update List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2018 16:22:32 -0000 Reviewer: Pete Resnick Review result: Ready with Nits I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. The General Area Review Team (Gen-ART) reviews all IETF documents being processed by the IESG for the IETF Chair. Please treat these comments just like any other last call comments. For more information, please see the FAQ at . Document: draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto-12 Reviewer: Pete Resnick Review Date: 2018-06-11 IETF LC End Date: 2018-06-12 IESG Telechat date: 2018-06-21 Summary: Nice simple document; Ready to go with nits. Major issues: None. Minor issues: None. Nits/editorial comments: Nit: You should update the 2119 template to the 8174 template. Comment: If this kind of update is only going to happen every 6 or 7 years, I guess it's fine, but all that this document really does is: - Trivially update the ABNF - Add the algorithm to the registry - Update the normative instructions to indicate that this new algorithm be used. That really could have all be done with a registry update if the registry had a field for normative instructions for use of the algorithm. I suppose it's no longer a big deal to add one more document to the eight-odd-thousand RFCs, but still... pr From nobody Mon Jun 11 09:58:48 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dcrup@ietf.org Delivered-To: dcrup@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51CFC130E76; Mon, 11 Jun 2018 09:58:35 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Paul Wouters To: Cc: dcrup@ietf.org, ietf@ietf.org, draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto.all@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.81.2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <152873631529.2793.6649645368844625316@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2018 09:58:35 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Dcrup] Secdir last call review of draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto-12 X-BeenThere: dcrup@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 List-Id: DKIM Crypto Update List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2018 16:58:36 -0000 Reviewer: Paul Wouters Review result: Has Nits NITS: I believe the [FIPS-180-4-2015] reference should be replaced with a reference to RFC-6376 Remove or indicate the RFC Editor should remove the following text: Discussion Venue: Discussion about this draft is directed to the dcrup@ietf.org [1] mailing list. This sentence doesn't parse easily: This is an additional DKIM signature algorithm added to Section 3.3 of [RFC6376] as envisioned in Section 3.3.4 of [RFC6376]. It should simply say something like "This document adds an additional key algorithm type to the DKIM Key Type Registry and a new signature type to the DKIM Hash Algorithms Registry" This text reads a little odd: Ed25519 is a widely used cryptographic technique, so the security of DKIM signatures using new signing algorithms should be at least as good as those using old algorithms. It seems to suggest that being "widely used" is a guarantee for being "at least as good as older stuff". Better would be to just point to the Security Considerations of RFC 8032 Section 4 and 8 have an introductory lines that says "update as follows" followed by a dot instead of a colon. That is a little confusing to the reader, as if some text is missing before the dot. From nobody Fri Jun 15 01:42:44 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dcrup@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dcrup@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAB7B130DE1 for ; Fri, 15 Jun 2018 01:42:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.001 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=neutral reason="invalid (unsupported algorithm ed25519-sha256)" header.d=andreasschulze.de header.b=Y7ZD9GqB; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=andreasschulze.de header.b=xWLoL0V3 Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jwUWkaW_RVlg for ; Fri, 15 Jun 2018 01:42:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.somaf.de (mail.somaf.de [IPv6:2001:470:77b3:100::7]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0AB9E130DE0 for ; Fri, 15 Jun 2018 01:42:38 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=ed25519-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=andreasschulze.de; i=@andreasschulze.de; q=dns/txt; s=ed25519; t=1529052155; h=date : message-id : from : to : subject : in-reply-to : content-type : mime-version : date : from : subject; bh=2j5rNpi33tVtEd0N1AxemLnDAIJiaEOoo4q4GjjL9C8=; b=Y7ZD9GqBC6yWB7Ycg4ZPBjd6r5FnKQoGPcAuc2DInO04UaYdZjpEvJ5t M5FQ44Ug5rTIUcPPCRjH1eK7D7qBDA== Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2018 10:42:31 +0200 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=andreasschulze.de; s=ybz; t=1529052155; x=1534052155; bh=2j5rNpi33tVtEd0N1AxemLnDAIJiaEOoo4q4GjjL9C8=; h=Date:Message-ID:From:To:Subject:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:from: reply-to:subject:date:to:cc:content-type:message-id; b=xWLoL0V3+m1VrUPl4EQ0UzCjD6Si+DoVGNrgEmyvD1Wbo6GiHsn8uXAYvxL9PIs9g PRClv3WMkU0mQSJ9Jav1DcLhDsrcv/ek+y16BoKO+SQB8wJzaq7AY5jQlsQHIck7i8 5cVOUq3ARYEmcYgpn3NqTB/DFYpmhGd/4FrMUpIGlPt8ud17ILf2Yju2nW+wPHWS/P Gxq0/8pE8CKgHA/aAuRIzr3S1hl4GJsD/QIaG2P3kziFnUn3DVfZ2wYy481LnAtFvr WM43Sova9d8WJJz01jqC6QxrdX0XVElL98dsYTzI64l/YVMC6dqzrD5yWt2vt+iQ39 9uhvCF219XEtQ== Message-ID: <20180615104231.Horde.KeNsj7CCE3y-_HbTdNKn8Rr@andreasschulze.de> From: "A. Schulze" To: dcrup@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <152828806457.6370.6619882142095013862@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed; DelSp=Yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dcrup] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto-12.txt X-BeenThere: dcrup@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: DKIM Crypto Update List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2018 08:42:42 -0000 internet-drafts: > Filename : draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto-12.txt > Date : 2018-06-06 > > Abstract: > This document adds a new signing algorithm to DKIM, ed25519-sha256. > DKIM verifiers are required to implement this algorithm. Hello, there is some confusion in the a= tag in DKIM signatures. I assume: "a=..." refer an algorithm, "k=..." refer a key https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto-12#section-4.1 define a new value for the a tag (algorithm) in DKIM signatures as "a=ed25519" with a reference to https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6376#section-3.5 *there* values for a= are defined as rsa-sha1 and rsa-sha256 Reader (including myself) may expect the new value is "a=ed25519-sha256" OK, nobody like "ed25519-sha1" so defining a=ed25519 may be sufficient, but confusing. On the other side, https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto-12#section-5 mention the algorithm again as "ed25519-sha256" Andreas From nobody Fri Jun 15 11:43:04 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dcrup@ietf.org Delivered-To: dcrup@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D938130F49; Fri, 15 Jun 2018 11:42:54 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Benjamin Kaduk To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto@ietf.org, dcrup-chairs@ietf.org, fenton@bluepopcorn.net, dcrup@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.81.2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <152908817442.27432.15705640148207208976.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2018 11:42:54 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Dcrup] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto-12: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: dcrup@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 List-Id: DKIM Crypto Update List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2018 18:43:00 -0000 Benjamin Kaduk has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto-12: Discuss When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- DISCUSS: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- This is basically pro-forma and should be easy to resolve: as pointed out in the secdir review, "this is widely used, therefore it must be secure" does not hold any weight. The security considerations should be adjusted to provide some actual justification of the primitive's security or not make such a claim. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for writing this document; it will be good to have ed25519 available for DKIM. In addition to the above DISCUSS point, there were some other good remarks in the secdir review (though I'm not sure about the "DKIM Hash Algorithms Registry" part) -- it would be good to see a reply to them as well. Section 3's Note may want to clarify that it is the public keys that are 256 bits long (the relevant part, since those are what go in the DNS). In Section 4.2: Typo, "mignt" for "might". And maybe there's a better way to format the example than with a selector of just "s"? From nobody Fri Jun 15 17:18:54 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dcrup@ietf.org Delivered-To: dcrup@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9ED28124BE5; Fri, 15 Jun 2018 17:18:45 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: dcrup@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.81.2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <152910832560.27374.17896330620220678731@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2018 17:18:45 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Dcrup] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto-13.txt X-BeenThere: dcrup@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 List-Id: DKIM Crypto Update List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2018 00:18:46 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the DKIM Crypto Update WG of the IETF. Title : A new cryptographic signature method for DKIM Author : John Levine Filename : draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto-13.txt Pages : 8 Date : 2018-06-15 Abstract: This document adds a new signing algorithm to DKIM, ed25519-sha256. DKIM verifiers are required to implement this algorithm. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto-13 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto-13 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto-13 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Fri Jun 15 17:19:49 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dcrup@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dcrup@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 126C4130E83 for ; Fri, 15 Jun 2018 17:19:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1536-bit key) header.d=iecc.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id T6QDjVnQk0vz for ; Fri, 15 Jun 2018 17:19:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gal.iecc.com (gal.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:43:6f73:7461]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3152F130F07 for ; Fri, 15 Jun 2018 17:19:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 63867 invoked from network); 16 Jun 2018 00:19:45 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:user-agent; s=f979.5b2457a1.k1806; bh=9Wan2nz8BYSqG1uccytgEWNKJqy/5c05XNIPrcII+iM=; b=kXQDDAgTJNqFhB7D9c/M6kpXgFtPHKO2uWrytx7EFrS889WKqmP/5Bbw8DyZllNj3bEPxUsdd0MzTQWw15sTb80+ZKvL1l23PJnF4K0G9bszjqxTxJaknA9Sxep/a6P3uMe83RTqBmlLZ9KKZXWYA0F1zDBrsWxNOz8xQIoGpnCkRqXuOeOf0tD8R4rwaydbsXwyaE0wZ68Zj0Z/5pXv5APkj0VrXk6hMh0Y8okfm+/8DJ2/WDCCBjPFmW4UYveO Received: from localhost ([IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126::78:696d:6170]) by imap.iecc.com ([IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126::78:696d:6170]) with ESMTPS (TLS1.2/X.509/AEAD) via TCP6; 16 Jun 2018 00:19:44 -0000 Date: 15 Jun 2018 20:19:44 -0400 Message-ID: From: "John R. Levine" To: dcrup@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <152873414342.2872.16681801090252484956@ietfa.amsl.com> References: <152873414342.2872.16681801090252484956@ietfa.amsl.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.21 (OSX 202 2017-01-01) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Archived-At: Subject: [Dcrup] last call updated draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto-13 X-BeenThere: dcrup@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: DKIM Crypto Update List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2018 00:19:48 -0000 I think the -13 addresses the last call comments. Regards, John Levine, johnl@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly From nobody Sat Jun 16 05:02:47 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dcrup@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dcrup@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A2BD130DEB for ; Sat, 16 Jun 2018 05:02:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=neutral reason="invalid (unsupported algorithm ed25519-sha256)" header.d=andreasschulze.de header.b=mYXof4v2; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=andreasschulze.de header.b=HfBbPnDv Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CjM4zekbPLvv for ; Sat, 16 Jun 2018 05:02:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.somaf.de (mail.somaf.de [IPv6:2001:470:77b3:100::7]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 89F6212F1AC for ; Sat, 16 Jun 2018 05:02:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=ed25519-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=andreasschulze.de; i=@andreasschulze.de; q=dns/txt; s=ed25519; t=1529150556; h=date : message-id : from : to : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : mime-version : date : from : subject; bh=8PLyeXtn3PP/K6KuwiG2WE2y01nuchet80zwq2iFVuM=; b=mYXof4v2mxJsNs7+CaA1ky4Dv+xYB/qk5EmbzZBsOBnD0Za9JuiyzA2V w61B+lzL0fv2Wv6H7u6FRF4wKxqjAQ== Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2018 14:02:33 +0200 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=andreasschulze.de; s=ybz; t=1529150556; x=1534150556; bh=8PLyeXtn3PP/K6KuwiG2WE2y01nuchet80zwq2iFVuM=; h=Date:Message-ID:From:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To: Content-Type:from:reply-to:subject:date:to:cc:content-type: message-id; b=HfBbPnDvDzGtg4FLh9cFgCJTY9ZjdJ9eOfm3r1rbQg+W+8Z1uOhO3gHQWy8Cqwsjo Bi6p8SFJOTSed7DBwgE4xiZd64Ayx5yel3FW0hkcuoGuZPUSo7T0gzL5jXp4IgN04G 7GeTRIbSBRxF2NqsZWPvVEMCWlsQCafXDedAjrdCT7m/++Ld2ExlFbwZkJLp/ZcDWS hDczBRkNLDwZARHHbOFmlEk18DB7doUbWk+Yu/tAG+vAR+/wVO6L6rlIbEOp7YE4Z2 rKAA6X7WTUdXwopf+Ul7nyHlvC59nZg2oJB2LtqapQNVNca1foc+ph76ANU3irAbYH pNbbVY3IiHiPw== Message-ID: <20180616140233.Horde.cpDnNbwK7BfnLAHLU1YdN4_@andreasschulze.de> From: "A. Schulze" To: dcrup@ietf.org References: <152828806457.6370.6619882142095013862@ietfa.amsl.com> <20180615104231.Horde.KeNsj7CCE3y-_HbTdNKn8Rr@andreasschulze.de> In-Reply-To: <20180615104231.Horde.KeNsj7CCE3y-_HbTdNKn8Rr@andreasschulze.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed; DelSp=Yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dcrup] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto-12.txt X-BeenThere: dcrup@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: DKIM Crypto Update List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2018 12:02:46 -0000 A. Schulze: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto-12#section-4.1 > define a new value for the a tag (algorithm) in DKIM signatures as > "a=ed25519" > with a reference to https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6376#section-3.5 > *there* values for a= are defined as rsa-sha1 and rsa-sha256 > > Reader (including myself) may expect the new value is "a=ed25519-sha256" Got it. The Draft define sig-a-tag-k ... > OK, nobody like "ed25519-sha1" so defining a=ed25519 may be > sufficient, but confusing. > On the other side, > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto-12#section-5 > mention the algorithm again as "ed25519-sha256" > > Andreas > > > _______________________________________________ > Dcrup mailing list > Dcrup@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dcrup From nobody Sat Jun 16 07:44:07 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dcrup@ietf.org Delivered-To: dcrup@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB5B4130E24; Sat, 16 Jun 2018 07:43:59 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Benjamin Kaduk To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto@ietf.org, dcrup-chairs@ietf.org, fenton@bluepopcorn.net, dcrup@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.81.2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <152916023988.6185.8096866196786504366.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2018 07:43:59 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Dcrup] Benjamin Kaduk's No Objection on draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto-13: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: dcrup@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 List-Id: DKIM Crypto Update List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2018 14:44:01 -0000 Benjamin Kaduk has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto-13: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for the quick update letting me resolve my DISCUSS! Thanks for writing this document; it will be good to have ed25519 available for DKIM. There were some remarks in the secdir review that I don't remember seeing a response to yet (though I'm not sure about the "DKIM Hash Algorithms Registry" part) -- it would be good to see a reply to them as well as the updates already made. From nobody Sat Jun 16 07:56:47 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dcrup@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dcrup@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56A84130ECC for ; Sat, 16 Jun 2018 07:56:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1536-bit key) header.d=iecc.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id b75mIOaxY8kg for ; Sat, 16 Jun 2018 07:56:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gal.iecc.com (gal.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:43:6f73:7461]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 430E2130EC2 for ; Sat, 16 Jun 2018 07:56:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 51804 invoked from network); 16 Jun 2018 14:56:40 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:user-agent; s=ca5a.5b252528.k1806; bh=3apyj8JiIunIaKePtGrKDVkVbdrNjfPeizfcQfGOiuA=; b=msAe5mrpp9bwpxOMN4StxuC9F0BRYsqQHvpbmjl8i6yvoqgq1VxvTwZbR9I/xycB/mA4P0Zcu4M/bvEg5KvZWuL1TtvnQ3rTCuyK6i7oL2OOSJ5pn9vJbBAZS+eqwh3E7m36adyWGNASiohZ4Ay7xdtqqCtFBPcCNqTafAJWPEMzqLN3c6FrJVhD5FejUbjLPYUgdX3AxuMHF1+Gkt6Cr4NYVl1Ycf/GHfvqeRRIfJAY4RFR3AXcRl83J2ITCfV4 Received: from localhost ([IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126::78:696d:6170]) by imap.iecc.com ([IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126::78:696d:6170]) with ESMTPS (TLS1.2/X.509/AEAD) via TCP6; 16 Jun 2018 14:56:40 -0000 Date: 16 Jun 2018 10:56:39 -0400 Message-ID: From: "John R. Levine" To: "Benjamin Kaduk" Cc: "The IESG" , draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto@ietf.org, dcrup-chairs@ietf.org, fenton@bluepopcorn.net, dcrup@ietf.org, alias-bounces@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <152916023988.6185.8096866196786504366.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> References: <152916023988.6185.8096866196786504366.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.21 (OSX 202 2017-01-01) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dcrup] [taugh.com-standards] Benjamin Kaduk's No Objection on draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto-13: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: dcrup@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: DKIM Crypto Update List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2018 14:56:45 -0000 On Sat, 16 Jun 2018, Benjamin Kaduk wrote: > There were some remarks in the secdir review that I don't remember seeing a response > to yet (though I'm not sure about the "DKIM Hash Algorithms Registry" part) -- it would be > good to see a reply to them as well as the updates already made. That was about a typo in an earlier version, fixed a while ago. Regards, John Levine, johnl@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly From nobody Sat Jun 16 11:28:02 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dcrup@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dcrup@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED7CB1310F6; Sat, 16 Jun 2018 11:27:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.22 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.22 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mXHHB8Y1tMCw; Sat, 16 Jun 2018 11:27:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dmz-mailsec-scanner-5.mit.edu (dmz-mailsec-scanner-5.mit.edu [18.7.68.34]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 27BFD130E47; Sat, 16 Jun 2018 11:27:58 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: 12074422-7edff700000046dc-fd-5b2556ad3532 Received: from mailhub-auth-2.mit.edu ( [18.7.62.36]) (using TLS with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by dmz-mailsec-scanner-5.mit.edu (Symantec Messaging Gateway) with SMTP id C8.45.18140.DA6552B5; Sat, 16 Jun 2018 14:27:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from outgoing.mit.edu (OUTGOING-AUTH-1.MIT.EDU [18.9.28.11]) by mailhub-auth-2.mit.edu (8.13.8/8.9.2) with ESMTP id w5GIRu3d022009; Sat, 16 Jun 2018 14:27:56 -0400 Received: from kduck.kaduk.org (24-107-191-124.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com [24.107.191.124]) (authenticated bits=56) (User authenticated as kaduk@ATHENA.MIT.EDU) by outgoing.mit.edu (8.13.8/8.12.4) with ESMTP id w5GIRotR014355 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Sat, 16 Jun 2018 14:27:53 -0400 Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2018 13:27:50 -0500 From: Benjamin Kaduk To: "John R. Levine" Cc: The IESG , draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto@ietf.org, dcrup-chairs@ietf.org, fenton@bluepopcorn.net, dcrup@ietf.org, alias-bounces@ietf.org Message-ID: <20180616182747.GX64971@kduck.kaduk.org> References: <152916023988.6185.8096866196786504366.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.9.1 (2017-09-22) X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFmpnleLIzCtJLcpLzFFi42IRYrdT0V0bphptcOQwn8Wb9h3MFqvW5Vks XPOM2aLt7mEmi2+ds5gtZvyZyGzx9ECMA7vH01WvmDz29q9n9Fiy5CdTAHMUl01Kak5mWWqR vl0CV0bz97dsBQfEK55/O8jUwHhcqIuRk0NCwERi55PPjCC2kMBiJolvPxK7GLmA7I2MEmfe djFBOFeZJB4cXMwKUsUioCrx+vFpNhCbTUBFoqH7MjOILQIU3zX3ICtIA7PAGkaJjXP+gTUI C5RK/PnxDmwFL9C6xZ0fWCDWVUls7N7FBhEXlDg58wlYnFlAS+LGv5dAmzmAbGmJ5f84QMKc AhYST+f0g5WLCihL7O07xD6BUWAWku5ZSLpnIXQvYGRexSibklulm5uYmVOcmqxbnJyYl5da pGuql5tZopeaUrqJERzeLko7GCf+8zrEKMDBqMTDK3BaOVqINbGsuDL3EKMkB5OSKO/3FpVo Ib6k/JTKjMTijPii0pzU4kOMEhzMSiK8xWVAOd6UxMqq1KJ8mJQ0B4uSOG/uIsZoIYH0xJLU 7NTUgtQimKwMB4eSBO+jUNVoIcGi1PTUirTMnBKENBMHJ8hwHqDhysB0IMRbXJCYW5yZDpE/ xagoJQ6REABJZJTmwfWC0o9E9v6aV4ziQK8I89qDrOABpi647ldAg5mABu9fCHJ1cUkiQkqq gVGLPd1RVOttwvJpszaYbKr//vvLjYJ3MfENzFPS7IpNn+psrTnxQSJ0uk7Zr0hF9eLXrV7B /90XtYUm8q2eutOwTnba0Vn/P87c3rfy/u0Wu7kGx/88Tjvblc/0RHZ1qIOTV6TIGjfHQzOn Vnj0qO4Mmj01y71aR/Bcft+NB90H71jk1xfu/qvEUpyRaKjFXFScCAB3zxu5GgMAAA== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dcrup] [taugh.com-standards] Benjamin Kaduk's No Objection on draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto-13: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: dcrup@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: DKIM Crypto Update List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2018 18:28:00 -0000 On Sat, Jun 16, 2018 at 10:56:39AM -0400, John R. Levine wrote: > On Sat, 16 Jun 2018, Benjamin Kaduk wrote: > > There were some remarks in the secdir review that I don't remember seeing a response > > to yet (though I'm not sure about the "DKIM Hash Algorithms Registry" part) -- it would be > > good to see a reply to them as well as the updates already made. > > That was about a typo in an earlier version, fixed a while ago. My ballot remark should be interpreted as "I think there are some good comments in the secdir review, but I do not understand the part of the secdir review that talks about the DKIM Hash Algorithms Registry." I don't know that an earlier rev of the document is relevant, since the secdir review (https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/review-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto-12-secdir-lc-wouters-2018-06-11/) claims to apply to revision 12, the same revision I initially reviewed. Since apparently this is difficult, let me go through the secdir review item-by-item and comment on it: % NITS: % I believe the [FIPS-180-4-2015] reference should be replaced with a % reference to RFC-6376 Still relevant. (This is the citation for SHA-256; we generally prefer IETF references to external references.) % Remove or indicate the RFC Editor should remove the following text: % % Discussion Venue: Discussion about this draft is directed to the % dcrup@ietf.org [1] mailing list. Still relevant. % This sentence doesn't parse easily: % % This is an additional DKIM signature algorithm added to Section 3.3 % of [RFC6376] as envisioned in Section 3.3.4 of [RFC6376]. % % It should simply say something like "This document adds an % additional key algorithm type to the DKIM Key Type Registry and a % new signature type to the DKIM Hash Algorithms Registry" Still relevant, though AFAICT only the Key Type Registry is impacted. % This text reads a little odd: % % Ed25519 is a widely used cryptographic technique, so the security of % DKIM signatures using new signing algorithms should be at least as % good as those using old algorithms. % % It seems to suggest that being "widely used" is a guarantee for % being "at least as good as older stuff". Better would be to just % point to the Security Considerations of RFC 8032 Addressed in the -13. % Section 4 and 8 have an introductory lines that says "update as % follows" followed by a dot instead of a colon. That is a little % confusing to the reader, as if some text is missing before the dot. Still relevant (though I guess I would prefer "as described in the following sections" to using a colon). More generally, while it's oftentime just as fine to reply to a directorate review with "thanks for your comments, but this text will be clear for the document's target audience" as to take the suggested changes, it's really unclear what conclusion to draw when the review is met with a curtain of silence. -Benjamin From nobody Sat Jun 16 12:07:56 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dcrup@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dcrup@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62D81130E3D for ; Sat, 16 Jun 2018 12:07:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1536-bit key) header.d=iecc.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8nfsnGFDX-o2 for ; Sat, 16 Jun 2018 12:07:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gal.iecc.com (gal.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:43:6f73:7461]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8A71D124D68 for ; Sat, 16 Jun 2018 12:07:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 8595 invoked from network); 16 Jun 2018 19:01:10 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:user-agent; s=218f.5b255e76.k1806; bh=wkCUH5oTm522AoeG4sdjEGcxYj+ngtgOBbu6wHiukWA=; b=lysSSK11uLv2gjP0uVi3SesNkYOGDbn0Zxv6ji7N3C7W6mi2TfUCcySL9FdpEhW6WeAzP1D+Q/0/nD8ufS2WUHctf8yPjzm6ziBZqP2jWxmwc6LVW7e4OPQYzPsryHJw1N0pqyOJlUp8+TBviEHnN9KCbyIA81EOcgQEGlelaxA4Ku9qJb9edhl3ZIDlVlicJQrs0/hc9plx42z4dBf/DlnW1YV3L/KrmO1XqmhMaVjY3gp0WB6YS+6XlNUE5CCt Received: from localhost ([IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126::78:696d:6170]) by imap.iecc.com ([IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126::78:696d:6170]) with ESMTPS (TLS1.2/X.509/AEAD) via TCP6; 16 Jun 2018 19:01:10 -0000 Date: 16 Jun 2018 15:01:09 -0400 Message-ID: From: "John R. Levine" To: "Benjamin Kaduk" Cc: "The IESG" , dcrup-chairs@ietf.org, fenton@bluepopcorn.net, dcrup@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <20180616182747.GX64971@kduck.kaduk.org> References: <152916023988.6185.8096866196786504366.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <20180616182747.GX64971@kduck.kaduk.org> User-Agent: Alpine 2.21 (OSX 202 2017-01-01) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dcrup] [taugh.com-standards] Benjamin Kaduk's No Objection on draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto-13: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: dcrup@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: DKIM Crypto Update List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2018 19:07:55 -0000 > % I believe the [FIPS-180-4-2015] reference should be replaced with a > % reference to RFC-6376 > > Still relevant. (This is the citation for SHA-256; we generally > prefer IETF references to external references.) RFC 6376 is the DKIM spec that we are updating. It uses SHA-256 and defines it by referring to the FIPS document. I suppose I could change it to "see RFC6376 reference FIPS-180-3-2008" but that seems cruel, and would miss the fact that 180-3 has been updated since 6376 was published. > % Remove or indicate the RFC Editor should remove the following text: > % > % Discussion Venue: Discussion about this draft is directed to the > % dcrup@ietf.org [1] mailing list. > > Still relevant. Sorry, relevant to what? Surely you're not saying that the staff in the RPC don't know to remove this kind of stuff as they turn drafts into RFCs. > % This sentence doesn't parse easily: > % > % This is an additional DKIM signature algorithm added to Section 3.3 > % of [RFC6376] as envisioned in Section 3.3.4 of [RFC6376]. > % > % It should simply say something like "This document adds an > % additional key algorithm type to the DKIM Key Type Registry and a > % new signature type to the DKIM Hash Algorithms Registry" > > Still relevant, though AFAICT only the Key Type Registry is > impacted. Having rewritten that sentence several times to get WG consensus, I am not inclined to mess with it unless it is wrong, which I am reasonbly sure it is not. > % Section 4 and 8 have an introductory lines that says "update as > % follows" followed by a dot instead of a colon. That is a little > % confusing to the reader, as if some text is missing before the dot. > > Still relevant (though I guess I would prefer "as described in the > following sections" to using a colon). Copyediting nit, the RPC will make it match whatever the style is. > suggested changes, it's really unclear what conclusion to draw when > the review is met with a curtain of silence. I already wrote back to Paul, didn't realize I needed to tell the entire IETF. Regards, John Levine, johnl@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly PS: if I sound crabby, my defense is that today is Porchfest in my village and I've been hearing to my neighbors play bad folk music for the past three hours. From nobody Sat Jun 16 12:17:49 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dcrup@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dcrup@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F86A130E3D; Sat, 16 Jun 2018 12:17:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=bluepopcorn.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TFC3e7lKnMeD; Sat, 16 Jun 2018 12:17:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from v2.bluepopcorn.net (v2.bluepopcorn.net [IPv6:2607:f2f8:a994::2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 24FD2129C6B; Sat, 16 Jun 2018 12:17:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [IPv6:2601:647:5500:1330:62a4:4cff:fe65:83dd] ([IPv6:2601:647:5500:1330:62a4:4cff:fe65:83dd]) (authenticated bits=0) by v2.bluepopcorn.net (8.14.4/8.14.4/Debian-8+deb8u2) with ESMTP id w5GJHUPJ021470 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Sat, 16 Jun 2018 12:17:34 -0700 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=bluepopcorn.net; s=supersize; t=1529176655; bh=USeenKIN4zfDs+Vi5QP07HQ5Rs42Y4G2quk16fMd95A=; h=Subject:To:Cc:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=Si6uxovdUOpi9cS+QJATQa1KaCQ7IJ19XMCgMawc2YlpdSiSYLLMQGZ31M1nBw1Ax qXyVMtPv1A+iIRF28LQU+4/sXYmIrDQYfsYYyPucOZJyIwbcEsgJpjsQRi3O1qB89b 0kh8GlgbEpsm2n4mKgzU5OAzS0chW7xu5DhwcWOA= To: "John R. Levine" , Benjamin Kaduk Cc: dcrup@ietf.org, dcrup-chairs@ietf.org, The IESG References: <152916023988.6185.8096866196786504366.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <20180616182747.GX64971@kduck.kaduk.org> From: Jim Fenton Message-ID: Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2018 12:17:25 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dcrup] [taugh.com-standards] Benjamin Kaduk's No Objection on draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto-13: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: dcrup@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: DKIM Crypto Update List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2018 19:17:41 -0000 On 06/16/2018 12:01 PM, John R. Levine wrote: > % Remove or indicate the RFC Editor should remove the following text: >> % >> %ย ย ย ย ย ย  Discussion Venue:ย ย ย  Discussion about this draft is directed >> to the >> %ย ย ย ย ย ย  dcrup@ietf.org [1] mailing list. >> >> Still relevant. > > Sorry, relevant to what?ย  Surely you're not saying that the staff in > the RPC don't know to remove this kind of stuff as they turn drafts > into RFCs. If there's any reason to spin another revision, I would suggest cleaning this up. I had initially thought that it was something the RFC Editor could fix as well, but it's not a good use of reviewers' time to make each of them point it out. -Jim (as document shepherd) From nobody Sat Jun 16 12:28:55 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dcrup@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dcrup@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A65D130E45; Sat, 16 Jun 2018 12:28:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KH-SDWYWeLvP; Sat, 16 Jun 2018 12:28:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dmz-mailsec-scanner-6.mit.edu (dmz-mailsec-scanner-6.mit.edu [18.7.68.35]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C7FCB129C6B; Sat, 16 Jun 2018 12:28:50 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: 12074423-2bfff7000000357a-2c-5b2564f18e76 Received: from mailhub-auth-1.mit.edu ( [18.9.21.35]) (using TLS with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by dmz-mailsec-scanner-6.mit.edu (Symantec Messaging Gateway) with SMTP id 6F.57.13690.1F4652B5; Sat, 16 Jun 2018 15:28:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from outgoing.mit.edu (OUTGOING-AUTH-1.MIT.EDU [18.9.28.11]) by mailhub-auth-1.mit.edu (8.13.8/8.9.2) with ESMTP id w5GJSlsi010212; Sat, 16 Jun 2018 15:28:48 -0400 Received: from kduck.kaduk.org (24-107-191-124.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com [24.107.191.124]) (authenticated bits=56) (User authenticated as kaduk@ATHENA.MIT.EDU) by outgoing.mit.edu (8.13.8/8.12.4) with ESMTP id w5GJShwC027119 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Sat, 16 Jun 2018 15:28:45 -0400 Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2018 14:28:43 -0500 From: Benjamin Kaduk To: "John R. Levine" Cc: The IESG , dcrup-chairs@ietf.org, fenton@bluepopcorn.net, dcrup@ietf.org Message-ID: <20180616192840.GZ64971@kduck.kaduk.org> References: <152916023988.6185.8096866196786504366.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <20180616182747.GX64971@kduck.kaduk.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.9.1 (2017-09-22) X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFupnleLIzCtJLcpLzFFi42IR4hRV1v2Yohpt0N9vYrFqXZ7FwjXPmC2+ dc5itpjxZyKzxdMDMQ6sHk9XvWLy2Nu/ntFjyZKfTAHMUVw2Kak5mWWpRfp2CVwZ/3duZynY JlfxfnUrcwPjbfEuRk4OCQETiW/nnrJ2MXJxCAksZpLof/OZCcLZyCgxrWsiI4RzlUni0pcz bCAtLAKqEk8OPGYFsdkEVCQaui8zg9giQPFdcw+CxZkFUiTmvtvMCGILC5RK/PnxDsjm4OAF Wtc3pRJi5hVGiaOHdoDN5BUQlDg58wkLRK+WxI1/L5lA6pkFpCWW/+MACXMKWErs/vITrFxU QFlib98h9gmMArOQdM9C0j0LoXsBI/MqRtmU3Crd3MTMnOLUZN3i5MS8vNQiXTO93MwSvdSU 0k2MoFBmd1Hewfiyz/sQowAHoxIPr0a4arQQa2JZcWXuIUZJDiYlUd7vLSrRQnxJ+SmVGYnF GfFFpTmpxYcYJTiYlUR4i8uAcrwpiZVVqUX5MClpDhYlcd6cRYzRQgLpiSWp2ampBalFMFkZ Dg4lCd6pyUB7BItS01Mr0jJzShDSTBycIMN5gIZPBqnhLS5IzC3OTIfIn2I05vjUMLWHmePY 5Wk9zEIsefl5qVLivLwgpQIgpRmleXDTQOlIInt/zStGcaDnhHmvgVTxAFMZ3LxXQKuYgFbt XwjyR3FJIkJKqoFRNjIjYeLt2emqZ81P6a581rL+2AfOWmcGsZrFHudtZpyYtfBlzd19LavN /iuKlq9y9VgRlrZybt22VRn9xxK/XOS+sT5jS+j8KY1L6vl07lnGbJNlWOQdWSLEaMNVts+B 9dBJZc0PM7eWl1w9Wh0+96dCBkdX9IuzjMLnOJ9rr667yRB9uSJDiaU4I9FQi7moOBEAIzdZ 7SIDAAA= Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dcrup] [taugh.com-standards] Benjamin Kaduk's No Objection on draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto-13: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: dcrup@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: DKIM Crypto Update List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2018 19:28:53 -0000 On Sat, Jun 16, 2018 at 03:01:09PM -0400, John R. Levine wrote: > [Benjamin Kaduk wrote] > > suggested changes, it's really unclear what conclusion to draw when > > the review is met with a curtain of silence. > > I already wrote back to Paul, didn't realize I needed to tell the entire > IETF. I guess you don't really, though there are some benfits from leaving at least secdir@ cc'd. It would have been good to tell "the IETF" (in some form) that you were talking more to Paul off-list, though -- that would probably have saved us some electrons today. > > % I believe the [FIPS-180-4-2015] reference should be replaced with a > > % reference to RFC-6376 > > > > Still relevant. (This is the citation for SHA-256; we generally > > prefer IETF references to external references.) > > RFC 6376 is the DKIM spec that we are updating. It uses SHA-256 and > defines it by referring to the FIPS document. I suppose I could change it > to "see RFC6376 reference FIPS-180-3-2008" but that seems cruel, and would > miss the fact that 180-3 has been updated since 6376 was published. Okay, shame on me for not looking closely enough and making assumptions. It looks like RFC 4634 is the "US Secure Hash Algorithms" one I was thinking of (which is even older, referencing 180-2). I don't know whether this work relies on any of the differences in the FIPS standards between those versions, and won't ask you to chase it down, either, but I will express slight surprise that RFC 6376 references FIPS directly for SHA256. > > % Remove or indicate the RFC Editor should remove the following text: > > % > > % Discussion Venue: Discussion about this draft is directed to the > > % dcrup@ietf.org [1] mailing list. > > > > Still relevant. > > Sorry, relevant to what? Surely you're not saying that the staff in the > RPC don't know to remove this kind of stuff as they turn drafts into RFCs. I have received explicit direction from the RFC Series Editor to please point out early "things the RFC Editor ought to catch". Everyone is human, and getting known issues fixed earlier on leaves reviewers more free to spot other potential issues. (And, as Jim notes, it saves everyone time from having multiple reviewers point it out.) > > % This sentence doesn't parse easily: > > % > > % This is an additional DKIM signature algorithm added to Section 3.3 > > % of [RFC6376] as envisioned in Section 3.3.4 of [RFC6376]. > > % > > % It should simply say something like "This document adds an > > % additional key algorithm type to the DKIM Key Type Registry and a > > % new signature type to the DKIM Hash Algorithms Registry" > > > > Still relevant, though AFAICT only the Key Type Registry is > > impacted. > > Having rewritten that sentence several times to get WG consensus, I am not > inclined to mess with it unless it is wrong, which I am reasonbly sure it > is not. Okay. > > % Section 4 and 8 have an introductory lines that says "update as > > % follows" followed by a dot instead of a colon. That is a little > > % confusing to the reader, as if some text is missing before the dot. > > > > Still relevant (though I guess I would prefer "as described in the > > following sections" to using a colon). > > Copyediting nit, the RPC will make it match whatever the style is. I guess so, but see above. > Regards, > John Levine, johnl@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", > Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly > > PS: if I sound crabby, my defense is that today is Porchfest in my village > and I've been hearing to my neighbors play bad folk music for the past > three hours. That's a solid defense; I wish I had one as good for my own crabbiness. Thanks for all the clarifications. -Benjamin From nobody Sat Jun 16 15:57:48 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dcrup@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dcrup@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C392F131114; Sat, 16 Jun 2018 15:57:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fqijSPWX1iYf; Sat, 16 Jun 2018 15:57:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-oi0-x244.google.com (mail-oi0-x244.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c06::244]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F0148130E59; Sat, 16 Jun 2018 15:57:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-oi0-x244.google.com with SMTP id f79-v6so11846199oib.7; Sat, 16 Jun 2018 15:57:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:content-language; bh=qBZye2tbovilRaQYGrlsn5R/z4hdQy3uVmZB4sUMbNo=; b=SaoklcVmjTu4R3NlrOxmmpBIMAuhRFI+L5B+cA5FprON1UPLo40RTjaqbxqzFK6zL7 tpYe5UNdvvLhWSH7m7+kVLJ3DZ1GgSwPsQNukKaPq2CVbXV7rRWbCtktL0tVvM0vAvKI x/ReHOPgF5ZVeXt+gOrsTJefIt34oGmuBqS16DLPl6GJBXk54KgEik781LgkabSBnt04 Z62amh46+IIt35xleZiYHxOCupCgDge3LleIY/0IXjFuf/B8qn6ikhV961BuLqI4oIvx IV+Tc4dAestB95rQSyu6U/OZk2CPAXWxW6KlIIagn8EsJJLZlXpnRHkqyrqe1PTZ20TE xoUA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding :content-language; bh=qBZye2tbovilRaQYGrlsn5R/z4hdQy3uVmZB4sUMbNo=; b=tzmCN4QNBAwYGRoYPTDLa79iiU2NXbS4Tk8HxH5NojLqiqsfoPa4ZeqkRpFqaJNx60 CPnMuWkWUNPL34eme8pKBrdJAJAnyOxvolvR+XrAuXKxhEpksyrY2oN6LjqnkOL7YCVW KdHbZLZhrwKRAFq0ti3w6ZtUg6pw0LC1SdCjcIyxZqaF3useGNlw6/ICThs7N+7dk7Tv lIWCLXxRmbDhCSMZZAzmE6DW8gpPc11pqb04lNV5aBXmUhnlMxWlhEPw/PZlzXR5GEGF omS8gqnlRFXZnJ0tP9aPUEmWb0yG9WydQuUTjR84P2VFDI1guta0MQR/e9rv3FbjCy7V wumw== X-Gm-Message-State: APt69E3pcIEqtfixKFLKfeRyYYtWxZIfam0qFLbrE7RYxAmVHuI7vBWO WyFeYEsEiX/E9q9yCC6amXUIVKWD X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADUXVKKSLBu6d4EW9JFVXxvh36aAV0HFFTRiUBX+EkfQSILFAt51MzRysRDKTWSyz9zBdRAOUJseIw== X-Received: by 2002:a54:4f10:: with SMTP id e16-v6mr4127188oiy.186.1529189861889; Sat, 16 Jun 2018 15:57:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.18] (cpe-66-25-210-163.tx.res.rr.com. [66.25.210.163]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id p128-v6sm4942410oia.31.2018.06.16.15.57.40 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 16 Jun 2018 15:57:41 -0700 (PDT) To: Benjamin Kaduk , "John R. Levine" Cc: fenton@bluepopcorn.net, dcrup@ietf.org, dcrup-chairs@ietf.org, The IESG References: <152916023988.6185.8096866196786504366.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <20180616182747.GX64971@kduck.kaduk.org> <20180616192840.GZ64971@kduck.kaduk.org> From: Spencer Dawkins Message-ID: Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2018 17:57:40 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20180616192840.GZ64971@kduck.kaduk.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dcrup] [taugh.com-standards] Benjamin Kaduk's No Objection on draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto-13: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: dcrup@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: DKIM Crypto Update List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2018 22:57:45 -0000 Just among us chickens (and I'll be brief, because my crabbiness is due to a water leak that's requiring our floor to be torn out (as I type :-) ... On 06/16/2018 02:28 PM, Benjamin Kaduk wrote: > I have received explicit direction from the RFC Series Editor to > please point out early "things the RFC Editor ought to catch". > Everyone is human, and getting known issues fixed earlier on leaves > reviewers more free to spot other potential issues. (And, as Jim > notes, it saves everyone time from having multiple reviewers point > it out. This may not match practice from previous IESGs, since the conversation Benjamin is referring to was a request from the RFC Editor that came in after he was named to the IESG last March. I remember the conversation and thinking "that must be something the RPC has to deal with fairly frequently, because they rarely ask the IESG for help with stuff like this". So, this might be news to at least some parts of the community. I might also mention that changing things like this early means the number of changes that authors are looking at during AUTH48 would be smaller, allowing authors to be "more free to spot other potential issues" as well. I don't know about other areas, but the list of changes in some TSV drafts can be impressive. And now I'm off to watch our short dogs dog-paddle to keep their muzzles out of the water (I kid, a little :-) Spencer From nobody Mon Jun 18 13:07:39 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dcrup@ietf.org Delivered-To: dcrup@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EE41130E22; Mon, 18 Jun 2018 13:07:36 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Warren Kumari To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto@ietf.org, dcrup-chairs@ietf.org, fenton@bluepopcorn.net, dcrup@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.81.2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <152935245631.3584.15250692552339490015.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2018 13:07:36 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Dcrup] Warren Kumari's No Objection on draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto-13: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: dcrup@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 List-Id: DKIM Crypto Update List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2018 20:07:37 -0000 Warren Kumari has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto-13: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Section 7. Security Considerations "Ed25519 is a widely used cryptographic technique, so the security of DKIM signatures using new signing algorithms should be at least as good as those using old algorithms." Could this be reworded? This might just be a pet peeve, but as it is written, it is, I believe, false[0]. This says that, because lots of people use something, it must be good / secure. That's like saying that because lots of people drink instant coffee it must be at least as good as real coffee. Adding something like "and has received lots of review from the cryptographic community", or "doesn't seem to have any weaknesses", or something would help. Oh, the Change Log "11 to 12" entry wins! W [0]: I bought a box of commas on sale this weekend. From nobody Mon Jun 18 13:23:16 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dcrup@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dcrup@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57730130E22 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2018 13:23:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cHZTGlaNoELB for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2018 13:23:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.smeinc.net (mail.smeinc.net [209.135.209.11]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2A4CE130E37 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2018 13:23:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.smeinc.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13D45300A08 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2018 16:23:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mail.smeinc.net Received: from mail.smeinc.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.smeinc.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id 1B5cNnUUd_J5 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2018 16:23:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a860b60074bd.home (pool-71-127-50-4.washdc.fios.verizon.net [71.127.50.4]) by mail.smeinc.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A3FE5300250; Mon, 18 Jun 2018 16:23:08 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) From: Russ Housley In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2018 16:23:09 -0400 Cc: dcrup@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <152873414342.2872.16681801090252484956@ietfa.amsl.com> To: John Levine X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dcrup] last call updated draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto-13 X-BeenThere: dcrup@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: DKIM Crypto Update List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2018 20:23:15 -0000 John: How hard would it be to expand section 6 to include an example of two = selectors being used, one with RSA and one with ed25519? If it is = pretty easy, I think it would help the reader. Russ > On Jun 15, 2018, at 8:19 PM, John R. Levine wrote: >=20 > I think the -13 addresses the last call comments. >=20 > Regards, > John Levine, johnl@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for = Dummies", > Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. = https://jl.ly >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Dcrup mailing list > Dcrup@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dcrup From nobody Mon Jun 18 13:37:37 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dcrup@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dcrup@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D525130E41 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2018 13:37:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.001 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=neutral reason="invalid (unsupported algorithm ed25519-sha256)" header.d=kitterman.com header.b=ylBLfgHo; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=kitterman.com header.b=ZvXbufbK Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fW6-WX4ZTeiT for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2018 13:37:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailout03.controlledmail.com (mailout03.controlledmail.com [IPv6:2607:f0d0:3001:aa::2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C3557130E22 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2018 13:37:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=ed25519-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=kitterman.com; i=@kitterman.com; q=dns/txt; s=201803e; t=1529354250; h=from : to : subject : date : message-id : in-reply-to : references : mime-version : content-transfer-encoding : content-type : from : subject : date; bh=wwFfhxIRmjcwV46wRivazsErqb8GfsGB/Ab2dIgyKDo=; b=ylBLfgHoIAFS2NigL1LpwdD7NZLLewRqKm4ZtU1s8NgWG/l2gxZEySbI WTBmUIHdhZ9BXsJhtpP9pL3xnCz9AQ== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=kitterman.com; i=@kitterman.com; q=dns/txt; s=201803r; t=1529354250; h=from : to : subject : date : message-id : in-reply-to : references : mime-version : content-transfer-encoding : content-type : from : subject : date; bh=wwFfhxIRmjcwV46wRivazsErqb8GfsGB/Ab2dIgyKDo=; b=ZvXbufbK/HJykf1K6yucOgOT+u0CK7HwwG6707lXA5DhZ/SSRyxJoL3H hMx5salYm84rmyqzlnKXfWAK0AAOKpnxRS9tCpgQobXKaKbSbsLUXXK9QG 0v4S2hz5bOwkythYj0VQVOKRNyy84kqpJPGvjSkiNKwsj/uArvkXcO2sfx gy1D4GBgiqFFApAkl22Acr1fl7ufHdjq5RJnwxCDKOyu701T+vkRZ3SPlE 8QZizETM6V3ntOSWEmLPMmu8SG1XF2C+5yl1sTvpAgRjZ2B1vR0ndbt6hI +tSZUhbBJbkY8ASOArPYI3gRlgnwO/X6C0MphhU3iDU710RFNGKOng== Received: from kitterma-e6430.localnet (static-72-81-252-22.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net [72.81.252.22]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mailout03.controlledmail.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id ACA3AC40149 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2018 15:37:30 -0500 (CDT) From: Scott Kitterman To: dcrup@ietf.org Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2018 16:37:30 -0400 Message-ID: <33998159.vzdTK0rSvT@kitterma-e6430> User-Agent: KMail/4.13.3 (Linux/3.13.0-147-generic; KDE/4.13.3; x86_64; ; ) In-Reply-To: References: <152873414342.2872.16681801090252484956@ietfa.amsl.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dcrup] last call updated draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto-13 X-BeenThere: dcrup@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: DKIM Crypto Update List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2018 20:37:35 -0000 I think we have that in the current revision in Appendix A.3. Do we need to specifically refer to that in Section 6? Scott K On Monday, June 18, 2018 04:23:09 PM Russ Housley wrote: > John: > > How hard would it be to expand section 6 to include an example of two > selectors being used, one with RSA and one with ed25519? If it is pretty > easy, I think it would help the reader. > > Russ > > > On Jun 15, 2018, at 8:19 PM, John R. Levine wrote: > > > > I think the -13 addresses the last call comments. > > > > Regards, > > John Levine, johnl@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for > > Dummies", Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. > > https://jl.ly > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Dcrup mailing list > > Dcrup@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dcrup > > _______________________________________________ > Dcrup mailing list > Dcrup@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dcrup From nobody Mon Jun 18 14:39:15 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dcrup@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dcrup@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B561129C6B for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2018 14:39:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nM-zp0wmCJlp for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2018 14:38:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.smeinc.net (mail.smeinc.net [209.135.209.11]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AACD8130EA0 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2018 14:38:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.smeinc.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F1BA300681 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2018 17:38:55 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mail.smeinc.net Received: from mail.smeinc.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.smeinc.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id Hr-Nvk7qWnKv for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2018 17:38:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a860b60074bd.home (pool-71-127-50-4.washdc.fios.verizon.net [71.127.50.4]) by mail.smeinc.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 18F5E30025C; Mon, 18 Jun 2018 17:38:54 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) From: Russ Housley In-Reply-To: <33998159.vzdTK0rSvT@kitterma-e6430> Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2018 17:38:55 -0400 Cc: dcrup@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <1363D217-5AD7-4034-A3E0-AFE3B632795E@vigilsec.com> References: <152873414342.2872.16681801090252484956@ietfa.amsl.com> <33998159.vzdTK0rSvT@kitterma-e6430> To: Scott Kitterman X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dcrup] last call updated draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto-13 X-BeenThere: dcrup@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: DKIM Crypto Update List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2018 21:39:11 -0000 Frankly, I missed it. The intro text to A.3 provides no hint that the = example is showing two signatures using different algorithms. The text is repeated below so that other readers do not need to look it = up. Russ =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D A.3. Signed Message The text in each line of the message starts at the first position except for the continuation lines on the DKIM-Signature headers which start with a single space. A blank line follows the "Joe." line. DKIM-Signature: v=3D1; a=3Ded25519-sha256; c=3Drelaxed/relaxed; d=3Dfootball.example.com; i=3D@football.example.com; q=3Ddns/txt; s=3Dbrisbane; t=3D1528637909; h=3Dfrom : to : subject : date : message-id : from : subject : date; bh=3D2jUSOH9NhtVGCQWNr9BrIAPreKQjO6Sn7XIkfJVOzv8=3D; b=3D/gCrinpcQOoIfuHNQIbq4pgh9kyIK3AQUdt9OdqQehSwhEIug4D11Bus Fa3bT3FY5OsU7ZbnKELq+eXdp1Q1Dw=3D=3D DKIM-Signature: v=3D1; a=3Drsa-sha256; c=3Drelaxed/relaxed; d=3Dfootball.example.com; i=3D@football.example.com; q=3Ddns/txt; s=3Dtest; t=3D1528637909; h=3Dfrom : to : subject : date : message-id : from : subject : date; bh=3D2jUSOH9NhtVGCQWNr9BrIAPreKQjO6Sn7XIkfJVOzv8=3D; b=3DF45dVWDfMbQDGHJFlXUNB2HKfbCeLRyhDXgFpEL8GwpsRe0IeIixNTe3 DhCVlUrSjV4BwcVcOF6+FF3Zo9Rpo1tFOeS9mPYQTnGdaSGsgeefOsk2Jz dA+L10TeYt9BgDfQNZtKdN1WO//KgIqXP7OdEFE4LjFYNcUxZQ4FADY+8=3D From: Joe SixPack To: Suzie Q Subject: Is dinner ready? Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 21:00:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <20030712040037.46341.5F8J@football.example.com> Hi. We lost the game. Are you hungry yet? Joe. > On Jun 18, 2018, at 4:37 PM, Scott Kitterman = wrote: >=20 > I think we have that in the current revision in Appendix A.3. Do we = need to=20 > specifically refer to that in Section 6? >=20 > Scott K >=20 > On Monday, June 18, 2018 04:23:09 PM Russ Housley wrote: >> John: >>=20 >> How hard would it be to expand section 6 to include an example of two >> selectors being used, one with RSA and one with ed25519? If it is = pretty >> easy, I think it would help the reader. >>=20 >> Russ >>=20 >>> On Jun 15, 2018, at 8:19 PM, John R. Levine wrote: >>>=20 >>> I think the -13 addresses the last call comments. >>>=20 >>> Regards, >>> John Levine, johnl@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet = for >>> Dummies", Please consider the environment before reading this = e-mail. >>> https://jl.ly >>>=20 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Dcrup mailing list >>> Dcrup@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dcrup >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> Dcrup mailing list >> Dcrup@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dcrup >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Dcrup mailing list > Dcrup@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dcrup From nobody Mon Jun 18 14:45:55 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dcrup@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dcrup@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9087130EA0 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2018 14:45:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.001 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=neutral reason="invalid (unsupported algorithm ed25519-sha256)" header.d=kitterman.com header.b=Y7L26+Pb; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=kitterman.com header.b=S0HLL1MM Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ugEiFL1Bq0Tg for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2018 14:45:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailout03.controlledmail.com (mailout03.controlledmail.com [IPv6:2607:f0d0:3001:aa::2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C0C6A129C6B for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2018 14:45:50 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=ed25519-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=kitterman.com; i=@kitterman.com; q=dns/txt; s=201803e; t=1529358348; h=from : to : subject : date : message-id : in-reply-to : references : mime-version : content-transfer-encoding : content-type : from : subject : date; bh=ami++1W/J6apTaRFrarePpWbjaOyciI6yU04VyuIECg=; b=Y7L26+PbFYoTuWzPNPXvyzE06Ahw/0EZdxh+fCk5DHDNzklDXjMqUca2 wciDX1KfMk19x+NR5lqMFlSgCenFDA== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=kitterman.com; i=@kitterman.com; q=dns/txt; s=201803r; t=1529358348; h=from : to : subject : date : message-id : in-reply-to : references : mime-version : content-transfer-encoding : content-type : from : subject : date; bh=ami++1W/J6apTaRFrarePpWbjaOyciI6yU04VyuIECg=; b=S0HLL1MMjcMETMNrN4AstRYfPVcsg/DifAzKYj7/gY92BrvwJn5n5FjW JER+evlDRTyeXEIEULLXbK6rgkhWUCvASJod4F48nbAKvVjSd4Zs0/sQ4i XiEKd/a6b7nOZ2+7Gevsvl0LSYYO1cf+mVEsEpshfn99MSer+6M+lBOcuh qiJgtHLuHF0n3NLfpc9LK4+4QG7eIYKem7IqKftSQTs7oPmXQvwmMWkDxv TUxAGtg9us7DELQ56NkniUZfqugwKRgAT3OL+X13tUZUSImzFNv9PQcC0c pGQzKKxIBcTOPfHkPe1c1w2igICoBOLZnlwJfwGdXQWEwOT7ldx42w== Received: from kitterma-e6430.localnet (static-72-81-252-22.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net [72.81.252.22]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mailout03.controlledmail.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 9FD3FC40079 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2018 16:45:48 -0500 (CDT) From: Scott Kitterman To: dcrup@ietf.org Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2018 17:45:48 -0400 Message-ID: <3034956.vqE5bSIrEz@kitterma-e6430> User-Agent: KMail/4.13.3 (Linux/3.13.0-147-generic; KDE/4.13.3; x86_64; ; ) In-Reply-To: <1363D217-5AD7-4034-A3E0-AFE3B632795E@vigilsec.com> References: <152873414342.2872.16681801090252484956@ietfa.amsl.com> <33998159.vzdTK0rSvT@kitterma-e6430> <1363D217-5AD7-4034-A3E0-AFE3B632795E@vigilsec.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dcrup] last call updated draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto-13 X-BeenThere: dcrup@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: DKIM Crypto Update List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2018 21:45:54 -0000 OK. Maybe added to the end of the paragraph in section 6: Current: 6. Transition Considerations For backward compatibility, signers can add multiple signatures that use old and new signing algorithms. Since there can only be a single key record in the DNS for each selector, the signatures have to use different selectors, although they can use the same d= and i= identifiers. Proposed: 6. Transition Considerations For backward compatibility, signers can add multiple signatures that use old and new signing algorithms. Since there can only be a single key record in the DNS for each selector, the signatures have to use different selectors, although they can use the same d= and i= identifiers. Appendix A.3 shows an example message signed with both ed25519-sha256 and rsa-sha256 with the same d= and i=, but unique selectors (s=brisbane and s=test respectively). Scott K On Monday, June 18, 2018 05:38:55 PM Russ Housley wrote: > Frankly, I missed it. The intro text to A.3 provides no hint that the > example is showing two signatures using different algorithms. > > The text is repeated below so that other readers do not need to look it up. > > Russ > > = = = = = = = = > > A.3. Signed Message > > The text in each line of the message starts at the first position > except for the continuation lines on the DKIM-Signature headers which > start with a single space. A blank line follows the "Joe." line. > > DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=ed25519-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; > d=football.example.com; i=@football.example.com; > q=dns/txt; s=brisbane; t=1528637909; h=from : to : > subject : date : message-id : from : subject : date; > bh=2jUSOH9NhtVGCQWNr9BrIAPreKQjO6Sn7XIkfJVOzv8=; > b=/gCrinpcQOoIfuHNQIbq4pgh9kyIK3AQUdt9OdqQehSwhEIug4D11Bus > Fa3bT3FY5OsU7ZbnKELq+eXdp1Q1Dw== > DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; > d=football.example.com; i=@football.example.com; > q=dns/txt; s=test; t=1528637909; h=from : to : subject : > date : message-id : from : subject : date; > bh=2jUSOH9NhtVGCQWNr9BrIAPreKQjO6Sn7XIkfJVOzv8=; > b=F45dVWDfMbQDGHJFlXUNB2HKfbCeLRyhDXgFpEL8GwpsRe0IeIixNTe3 > DhCVlUrSjV4BwcVcOF6+FF3Zo9Rpo1tFOeS9mPYQTnGdaSGsgeefOsk2Jz > dA+L10TeYt9BgDfQNZtKdN1WO//KgIqXP7OdEFE4LjFYNcUxZQ4FADY+8= > From: Joe SixPack > To: Suzie Q > Subject: Is dinner ready? > Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 21:00:37 -0700 (PDT) > Message-ID: <20030712040037.46341.5F8J@football.example.com> > > Hi. > > We lost the game. Are you hungry yet? > > Joe. > > > On Jun 18, 2018, at 4:37 PM, Scott Kitterman wrote: > > > > I think we have that in the current revision in Appendix A.3. Do we need > > to specifically refer to that in Section 6? > > > > Scott K > > > > On Monday, June 18, 2018 04:23:09 PM Russ Housley wrote: > >> John: > >> > >> How hard would it be to expand section 6 to include an example of two > >> selectors being used, one with RSA and one with ed25519? If it is pretty > >> easy, I think it would help the reader. > >> > >> Russ > >> > >>> On Jun 15, 2018, at 8:19 PM, John R. Levine wrote: > >>> > >>> I think the -13 addresses the last call comments. > >>> > >>> Regards, > >>> John Levine, johnl@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for > >>> Dummies", Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. > >>> https://jl.ly > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Dcrup mailing list > >>> Dcrup@ietf.org > >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dcrup > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Dcrup mailing list > >> Dcrup@ietf.org > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dcrup > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Dcrup mailing list > > Dcrup@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dcrup > > _______________________________________________ > Dcrup mailing list > Dcrup@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dcrup From nobody Mon Jun 18 14:48:09 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dcrup@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dcrup@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61844129C6B for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2018 14:48:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OAkWCduAmSUM for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2018 14:48:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.smeinc.net (mail.smeinc.net [209.135.209.11]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A325A130EA0 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2018 14:48:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.smeinc.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D44D300A1E for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2018 17:47:59 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mail.smeinc.net Received: from mail.smeinc.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.smeinc.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id 3exwRjEf2-30 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2018 17:47:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a860b60074bd.home (pool-71-127-50-4.washdc.fios.verizon.net [71.127.50.4]) by mail.smeinc.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id EC3FB30025C; Mon, 18 Jun 2018 17:47:57 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) From: Russ Housley In-Reply-To: <3034956.vqE5bSIrEz@kitterma-e6430> Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2018 17:47:59 -0400 Cc: dcrup@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <152873414342.2872.16681801090252484956@ietfa.amsl.com> <33998159.vzdTK0rSvT@kitterma-e6430> <1363D217-5AD7-4034-A3E0-AFE3B632795E@vigilsec.com> <3034956.vqE5bSIrEz@kitterma-e6430> To: Scott Kitterman X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dcrup] last call updated draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto-13 X-BeenThere: dcrup@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: DKIM Crypto Update List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2018 21:48:08 -0000 That would resolve my issue completely. Russ > On Jun 18, 2018, at 5:45 PM, Scott Kitterman = wrote: >=20 > OK. Maybe added to the end of the paragraph in section 6: >=20 > Current: >=20 > 6. Transition Considerations >=20 > For backward compatibility, signers can add multiple signatures that > use old and new signing algorithms. Since there can only be a = single > key record in the DNS for each selector, the signatures have to use > different selectors, although they can use the same d=3D and i=3D > identifiers. >=20 > Proposed: >=20 > 6. Transition Considerations >=20 > For backward compatibility, signers can add multiple signatures that > use old and new signing algorithms. Since there can only be a = single > key record in the DNS for each selector, the signatures have to use > different selectors, although they can use the same d=3D and i=3D > identifiers. Appendix A.3 shows an example message signed with both > ed25519-sha256 and rsa-sha256 with the same d=3D and i=3D, but = unique > selectors (s=3Dbrisbane and s=3Dtest respectively). >=20 > Scott K >=20 > On Monday, June 18, 2018 05:38:55 PM Russ Housley wrote: >> Frankly, I missed it. The intro text to A.3 provides no hint that = the >> example is showing two signatures using different algorithms. >>=20 >> The text is repeated below so that other readers do not need to look = it up. >>=20 >> Russ >>=20 >> =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D >>=20 >> A.3. Signed Message >>=20 >> The text in each line of the message starts at the first position >> except for the continuation lines on the DKIM-Signature headers = which >> start with a single space. A blank line follows the "Joe." line. >>=20 >> DKIM-Signature: v=3D1; a=3Ded25519-sha256; c=3Drelaxed/relaxed; >> d=3Dfootball.example.com; i=3D@football.example.com; >> q=3Ddns/txt; s=3Dbrisbane; t=3D1528637909; h=3Dfrom : to : >> subject : date : message-id : from : subject : date; >> bh=3D2jUSOH9NhtVGCQWNr9BrIAPreKQjO6Sn7XIkfJVOzv8=3D; >> b=3D/gCrinpcQOoIfuHNQIbq4pgh9kyIK3AQUdt9OdqQehSwhEIug4D11Bus >> Fa3bT3FY5OsU7ZbnKELq+eXdp1Q1Dw=3D=3D >> DKIM-Signature: v=3D1; a=3Drsa-sha256; c=3Drelaxed/relaxed; >> d=3Dfootball.example.com; i=3D@football.example.com; >> q=3Ddns/txt; s=3Dtest; t=3D1528637909; h=3Dfrom : to : subject : >> date : message-id : from : subject : date; >> bh=3D2jUSOH9NhtVGCQWNr9BrIAPreKQjO6Sn7XIkfJVOzv8=3D; >> b=3DF45dVWDfMbQDGHJFlXUNB2HKfbCeLRyhDXgFpEL8GwpsRe0IeIixNTe3 >> DhCVlUrSjV4BwcVcOF6+FF3Zo9Rpo1tFOeS9mPYQTnGdaSGsgeefOsk2Jz >> dA+L10TeYt9BgDfQNZtKdN1WO//KgIqXP7OdEFE4LjFYNcUxZQ4FADY+8=3D >> From: Joe SixPack >> To: Suzie Q >> Subject: Is dinner ready? >> Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 21:00:37 -0700 (PDT) >> Message-ID: <20030712040037.46341.5F8J@football.example.com> >>=20 >> Hi. >>=20 >> We lost the game. Are you hungry yet? >>=20 >> Joe. >>=20 >>> On Jun 18, 2018, at 4:37 PM, Scott Kitterman = wrote: >>>=20 >>> I think we have that in the current revision in Appendix A.3. Do we = need >>> to specifically refer to that in Section 6? >>>=20 >>> Scott K >>>=20 >>> On Monday, June 18, 2018 04:23:09 PM Russ Housley wrote: >>>> John: >>>>=20 >>>> How hard would it be to expand section 6 to include an example of = two >>>> selectors being used, one with RSA and one with ed25519? If it is = pretty >>>> easy, I think it would help the reader. >>>>=20 >>>> Russ >>>>=20 >>>>> On Jun 15, 2018, at 8:19 PM, John R. Levine = wrote: >>>>>=20 >>>>> I think the -13 addresses the last call comments. >>>>>=20 >>>>> Regards, >>>>> John Levine, johnl@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet = for >>>>> Dummies", Please consider the environment before reading this = e-mail. >>>>> https://jl.ly >>>>>=20 >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Dcrup mailing list >>>>> Dcrup@ietf.org >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dcrup >>>>=20 >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Dcrup mailing list >>>> Dcrup@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dcrup >>>=20 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Dcrup mailing list >>> Dcrup@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dcrup >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> Dcrup mailing list >> Dcrup@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dcrup >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Dcrup mailing list > Dcrup@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dcrup From nobody Mon Jun 18 15:02:11 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dcrup@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dcrup@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 103D9131026 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2018 15:01:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.001 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=neutral reason="invalid (unsupported algorithm ed25519-sha256)" header.d=kitterman.com header.b=LgGgYTja; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=kitterman.com header.b=YBZXOXmG Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kFOMnR4b8l5f for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2018 15:01:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailout03.controlledmail.com (mailout03.controlledmail.com [208.43.65.50]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2F26E130FDB for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2018 15:01:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=ed25519-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=kitterman.com; i=@kitterman.com; q=dns/txt; s=201803e; t=1529359295; h=from : to : subject : date : message-id : in-reply-to : references : mime-version : content-transfer-encoding : content-type : from : subject : date; bh=NHiT2HLsNWw6jzgdO4a00DrGEsKkOjdOwrC97omzpQs=; b=LgGgYTja9qigSR5hRG+/eQSx1XH5NCS0K2n8lvusBg4yx+3wI2LIXfnK 9gxB7TeINndup+xrAurCrMH7aMukBw== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=kitterman.com; i=@kitterman.com; q=dns/txt; s=201803r; t=1529359295; h=from : to : subject : date : message-id : in-reply-to : references : mime-version : content-transfer-encoding : content-type : from : subject : date; bh=NHiT2HLsNWw6jzgdO4a00DrGEsKkOjdOwrC97omzpQs=; b=YBZXOXmGVMV72cHYpJ5p+GuFtpKfP1XoKPiMXMrpsQhZThbJpIN3aXvx O2s/e1P9eigIKoaU0lQj320MkmuSvfDt8LHr98l7FatQGyxm9BjkBqIGIJ TV2JCbcLTCm5N3ZLvykyo81EPZt0ab46I6W960B4EkWTklewoGZbLaTp5L DYKP4Nf4GGJIwehdBll3KHg16KjNncXbM7XTJpSUWnQbXg0moole2dbOSx fV+v/aatAPae9M2DtixMXr2J/My4k0wP3pvsX27z4QJ/7IBs+osI9QvBKR 3bI7eBNufTrCOHwMKvdr2pBgjYZEHKp9tbaZc27YQqmqZybwV9CzKg== Received: from kitterma-e6430.localnet (static-72-81-252-22.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net [72.81.252.22]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mailout03.controlledmail.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 04441C40079 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2018 17:01:35 -0500 (CDT) From: Scott Kitterman To: dcrup@ietf.org Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2018 18:01:34 -0400 Message-ID: <3974579.l0zdJ1ShE3@kitterma-e6430> User-Agent: KMail/4.13.3 (Linux/3.13.0-147-generic; KDE/4.13.3; x86_64; ; ) In-Reply-To: References: <152873414342.2872.16681801090252484956@ietfa.amsl.com> <3034956.vqE5bSIrEz@kitterma-e6430> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dcrup] last call updated draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto-13 X-BeenThere: dcrup@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: DKIM Crypto Update List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2018 22:02:04 -0000 OK. John?? Versions are cheap, after all. Scott K On Monday, June 18, 2018 05:47:59 PM Russ Housley wrote: > That would resolve my issue completely. > > Russ > > > On Jun 18, 2018, at 5:45 PM, Scott Kitterman wrote: > > > > OK. Maybe added to the end of the paragraph in section 6: > > > > Current: > > > > 6. Transition Considerations > > > > For backward compatibility, signers can add multiple signatures that > > use old and new signing algorithms. Since there can only be a single > > key record in the DNS for each selector, the signatures have to use > > different selectors, although they can use the same d= and i= > > identifiers. > > > > Proposed: > > > > 6. Transition Considerations > > > > For backward compatibility, signers can add multiple signatures that > > use old and new signing algorithms. Since there can only be a single > > key record in the DNS for each selector, the signatures have to use > > different selectors, although they can use the same d= and i= > > identifiers. Appendix A.3 shows an example message signed with both > > ed25519-sha256 and rsa-sha256 with the same d= and i=, but unique > > selectors (s=brisbane and s=test respectively). > > > > Scott K > > > > On Monday, June 18, 2018 05:38:55 PM Russ Housley wrote: > >> Frankly, I missed it. The intro text to A.3 provides no hint that the > >> example is showing two signatures using different algorithms. > >> > >> The text is repeated below so that other readers do not need to look it > >> up. > >> > >> Russ > >> > >> = = = = = = = = > >> > >> A.3. Signed Message > >> > >> The text in each line of the message starts at the first position > >> except for the continuation lines on the DKIM-Signature headers which > >> start with a single space. A blank line follows the "Joe." line. > >> > >> DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=ed25519-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; > >> > >> d=football.example.com; i=@football.example.com; > >> q=dns/txt; s=brisbane; t=1528637909; h=from : to : > >> subject : date : message-id : from : subject : date; > >> bh=2jUSOH9NhtVGCQWNr9BrIAPreKQjO6Sn7XIkfJVOzv8=; > >> b=/gCrinpcQOoIfuHNQIbq4pgh9kyIK3AQUdt9OdqQehSwhEIug4D11Bus > >> Fa3bT3FY5OsU7ZbnKELq+eXdp1Q1Dw== > >> > >> DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; > >> > >> d=football.example.com; i=@football.example.com; > >> q=dns/txt; s=test; t=1528637909; h=from : to : subject : > >> date : message-id : from : subject : date; > >> bh=2jUSOH9NhtVGCQWNr9BrIAPreKQjO6Sn7XIkfJVOzv8=; > >> b=F45dVWDfMbQDGHJFlXUNB2HKfbCeLRyhDXgFpEL8GwpsRe0IeIixNTe3 > >> DhCVlUrSjV4BwcVcOF6+FF3Zo9Rpo1tFOeS9mPYQTnGdaSGsgeefOsk2Jz > >> dA+L10TeYt9BgDfQNZtKdN1WO//KgIqXP7OdEFE4LjFYNcUxZQ4FADY+8= > >> > >> From: Joe SixPack > >> To: Suzie Q > >> Subject: Is dinner ready? > >> Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 21:00:37 -0700 (PDT) > >> Message-ID: <20030712040037.46341.5F8J@football.example.com> > >> > >> Hi. > >> > >> We lost the game. Are you hungry yet? > >> > >> Joe. > >>> > >>> On Jun 18, 2018, at 4:37 PM, Scott Kitterman > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>> I think we have that in the current revision in Appendix A.3. Do we > >>> need > >>> to specifically refer to that in Section 6? > >>> > >>> Scott K > >>> > >>> On Monday, June 18, 2018 04:23:09 PM Russ Housley wrote: > >>>> John: > >>>> > >>>> How hard would it be to expand section 6 to include an example of two > >>>> selectors being used, one with RSA and one with ed25519? If it is > >>>> pretty > >>>> easy, I think it would help the reader. > >>>> > >>>> Russ > >>>> > >>>>> On Jun 15, 2018, at 8:19 PM, John R. Levine wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> I think the -13 addresses the last call comments. > >>>>> > >>>>> Regards, > >>>>> John Levine, johnl@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for > >>>>> Dummies", Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. > >>>>> https://jl.ly > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> Dcrup mailing list > >>>>> Dcrup@ietf.org > >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dcrup > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Dcrup mailing list > >>>> Dcrup@ietf.org > >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dcrup > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Dcrup mailing list > >>> Dcrup@ietf.org > >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dcrup > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Dcrup mailing list > >> Dcrup@ietf.org > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dcrup > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Dcrup mailing list > > Dcrup@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dcrup > > _______________________________________________ > Dcrup mailing list > Dcrup@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dcrup From nobody Mon Jun 18 15:26:59 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dcrup@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dcrup@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DD54130EA1 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2018 15:26:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.001 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1536-bit key) header.d=iecc.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TvHKEMMv_8bB for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2018 15:26:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gal.iecc.com (gal.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:43:6f73:7461]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D2608129385 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2018 15:26:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 35982 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2018 22:26:43 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:user-agent; s=8c8c.5b2831a3.k1806; bh=iYyDqEDellOP6h44i6iMIfl1Y+bL8fl59Jx9UawK03M=; b=cZUza02dj0kk59NBGj+EwiWmMqc3/rngj5cMOh6KXO7EgR359wbIsGdbD+ETVqO6ovalGole5lfXpS5REDwLjzoppNxPXnz5lszZ2tjSQUEUe7+vPniu4Q4jbesVvvdM4xuQs6PytMEbUZAFkvc1BcFV57bDsKItkG6V6LEgjEKSB5Xc1LGdm8SL6VxwJzODK5LYtJUy5pioLMCbtx84Xybip7AHln1EzcLYoiF9FUcJST/jo04wEsvWB0ZFuFYh Received: from localhost ([IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126::78:696d:6170]) by imap.iecc.com ([IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126::78:696d:6170]) with ESMTPS (TLS1.2/X.509/AEAD) via TCP6; 18 Jun 2018 22:26:43 -0000 Date: 18 Jun 2018 18:26:47 -0400 Message-ID: From: "John R. Levine" To: "Warren Kumari" Cc: "The IESG" , dcrup@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <152935245631.3584.15250692552339490015.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> References: <152935245631.3584.15250692552339490015.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.21 (OSX 202 2017-01-01) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dcrup] [taugh.com-standards] Warren Kumari's No Objection on draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto-13: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: dcrup@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: DKIM Crypto Update List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2018 22:26:50 -0000 On Mon, 18 Jun 2018, Warren Kumari wrote: > Section 7. Security Considerations > "Ed25519 is a widely used cryptographic technique, so the security of DKIM > signatures using new signing algorithms should be at least as good as those > using old algorithms." > > Could this be reworded? This might just be a pet peeve, but as it is written, > it is, I believe, false[0]. Fixed in my latest version which I will post once I'm sure there's really really really nothing more to change, just says to look at 8032. Regards, John Levine, johnl@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly From nobody Mon Jun 18 15:37:48 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dcrup@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dcrup@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AF30130E4D for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2018 15:37:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=kumari-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ACmDVmesnzJu for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2018 15:37:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x232.google.com (mail-wm0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::232]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8C1ED129385 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2018 15:37:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x232.google.com with SMTP id l15-v6so16623241wmc.1 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2018 15:37:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=kumari-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=VhnlEs1hXlRYwsHq9asaaWLhiOjMhNfMU7cOXa2d4oY=; b=ROjLTPaxTw3VYKt5f/dh0rgByphtYQ481G6Fl0pHwQPfQ97y9b01Dp1VEOTxJgAmYx cEUjTQhVMf3cY8n9v2CwwIsYqHe6ueOyPbLxVaZYCQNYEkB04Fmz35ofNWd2JbErSX// cSq5vAIax6pHCX5+8q9zmrhdPSUQ0wqx8wvbRCK6Xvg7ZFX4vhu4/CIyCT5LyHWGwZg9 T5qDBNrPM49uArLPikev7wRW8WjuYyFLQwGEpxfGD/Iyg6p0+F3QD+GP7eHtWhf3h0xy 3QvDopNe9WNiCIFbGXiEDVp5euAT+16vYQBANPUs73SOhcQM4wvYQXwIHOYW79LHaycJ 3zGQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=VhnlEs1hXlRYwsHq9asaaWLhiOjMhNfMU7cOXa2d4oY=; b=IFY0BdgsHcK0Q4D+0o1sAT3BqoJxS0xFmjDP3tGfta+YC6nGNxkKgkgKSA6u+829uf M/ljym7qZ/PAQ7ZkWuX86mk+i6HzSm2Sd0IIK6RwnSAe22KkYgwM1tf/Mc/YxTsk9RW9 ZPvBb8yvxooVfLrDdbH3PqzxezupCqwKsdq7z0au2yUZhps/Rl0ZXOuTMi6Q8twaGO5v MsbWp31NlfBoSIrOGCuZxgc4R2L8FU9FFRi8Vei7ElBbmDlJty5Q5bmTyIxClU21IobN tlWNwrVluD/sn95RB+RPUGQO7L8UxRivesLC4qaobwQ6v0lksLarMTzfN4XMdJdk3Mjy 5EtQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APt69E3cna2EY6ACEQjZSJcBL0ujiwPKjFA42a11nGRJPsQyiy1zhQ2a tib8PwD34LoQy2crmNWuROyK9EZJ6A1UQgNzD5Zaxw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADUXVKIkEiGE9rGTs34in/t537p5Hd8357+kQr0pNzst8l8hXV3iLwe+c7oa+i5tLDFa0Q6cci1QtENzVRcNBUEfUP4= X-Received: by 2002:a1c:4a9d:: with SMTP id n29-v6mr9122223wmi.46.1529361461847; Mon, 18 Jun 2018 15:37:41 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <152935245631.3584.15250692552339490015.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: From: Warren Kumari Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2018 18:37:05 -0400 Message-ID: To: John Levine Cc: The IESG , dcrup@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000aac0f3056ef2362f" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dcrup] [taugh.com-standards] Warren Kumari's No Objection on draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto-13: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: dcrup@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: DKIM Crypto Update List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2018 22:37:47 -0000 --000000000000aac0f3056ef2362f Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Cool, thanks! On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 6:26 PM John R. Levine wrote: > On Mon, 18 Jun 2018, Warren Kumari wrote: > > Section 7. Security Considerations > > "Ed25519 is a widely used cryptographic technique, so the security of > DKIM > > signatures using new signing algorithms should be at least as good as > those > > using old algorithms." > > > > Could this be reworded? This might just be a pet peeve, but as it is > written, > > it is, I believe, false[0]. > > Fixed in my latest version which I will post once I'm sure there's really > really really nothing more to change, just says to look at 8032. > > Regards, > John Levine, johnl@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for > Dummies", > Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly > -- I don't think the execution is relevant when it was obviously a bad idea in the first place. This is like putting rabid weasels in your pants, and later expressing regret at having chosen those particular rabid weasels and that pair of pants. ---maf --000000000000aac0f3056ef2362f Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Cool, thanks!=C2=A0


On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 6:26 PM John R. Levine <= ;johnl@iecc.com> wrote:
<= blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px= #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">On Mon, 18 Jun 2018, Warren Kumari wrote:
> Section 7.=C2=A0 Security Considerations
> "Ed25519 is a widely used cryptographic technique, so the securit= y of DKIM
> signatures using new signing algorithms should be at least as good as = those
> using old algorithms."
>
> Could this be reworded? This might just be a pet peeve, but as it is w= ritten,
> it is, I believe, false[0].

Fixed in my latest version which I will post once I'm sure there's = really
really really nothing more to change, just says to look at 8032.

Regards,
John Levine, johnl@iecc= .com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly


--
I don't t= hink the execution is relevant when it was obviously a bad idea in the firs= t place.
This is like putting rabid weasels in your pants, and later exp= ressing regret at having chosen those particular rabid weasels and that pai= r of pants.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0---maf
--000000000000aac0f3056ef2362f-- From nobody Mon Jun 18 21:31:11 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dcrup@ietf.org Delivered-To: dcrup@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12412131094; Mon, 18 Jun 2018 21:31:02 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Adam Roach To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto@ietf.org, dcrup-chairs@ietf.org, fenton@bluepopcorn.net, dcrup@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.81.2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <152938266206.2832.5011357550871489777.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2018 21:31:02 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Dcrup] Adam Roach's Yes on draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto-13: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: dcrup@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 List-Id: DKIM Crypto Update List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2018 04:31:03 -0000 Adam Roach has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto-13: Yes When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks to the authors and working group for the work put in on this document. I have two editorial updates to suggest. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- The draft header indicates that this document updates RFC 6376, but the abstract doesn't seem to mention this, which it should. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ยง2: > The capitalized key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", > "SHALL NOT", "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and > "OPTIONAL" in this document are to be interpreted as described in > [RFC8174]. This text is almost, but not quite, the boilerplate from RFC 8174. Please update this paragraph to match the boilerplate. From nobody Wed Jun 20 11:08:45 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dcrup@ietf.org Delivered-To: dcrup@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C89D1130DDA; Wed, 20 Jun 2018 11:08:38 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Spencer Dawkins To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto@ietf.org, dcrup-chairs@ietf.org, fenton@bluepopcorn.net, dcrup@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.81.2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <152951811881.28628.9648301610195881031.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2018 11:08:38 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Dcrup] Spencer Dawkins' Yes on draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto-13: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: dcrup@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 List-Id: DKIM Crypto Update List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2018 18:08:39 -0000 Spencer Dawkins has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto-13: Yes When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Just one nit. In DKIM [RFC6376] signs e-mail messages, by creating hashes of the message headers and body and signing the header hash with a digital signature. would it be more correct to say DKIM [RFC6376] is used to sign e-mail messages, by creating hashes of the message headers and body and signing the header hash with a digital signature. ? From nobody Wed Jun 20 11:59:06 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dcrup@ietf.org Delivered-To: dcrup@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF8E0130DFB; Wed, 20 Jun 2018 11:58:57 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Alissa Cooper To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto@ietf.org, dcrup-chairs@ietf.org, fenton@bluepopcorn.net, dcrup@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.81.2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <152952113771.28604.16540871887861131505.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2018 11:58:57 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Dcrup] Alissa Cooper's No Objection on draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto-13: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: dcrup@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 List-Id: DKIM Crypto Update List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2018 18:58:58 -0000 Alissa Cooper has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto-13: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Seems like this can be removed from Sec. 1: "Discussion Venue: Discussion about this draft is directed to the dcrup@ietf.org [1] mailing list." From nobody Wed Jun 20 12:00:57 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dcrup@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dcrup@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EA0C1311C3; Wed, 20 Jun 2018 12:00:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.701 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.701 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=cooperw.in header.b=yp09zSVn; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=rHNByLnD Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3sbV9Y2jJtmq; Wed, 20 Jun 2018 12:00:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from out2-smtp.messagingengine.com (out2-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.26]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 63C8D13124D; Wed, 20 Jun 2018 12:00:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from compute7.internal (compute7.nyi.internal [10.202.2.47]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id B40F321D34; Wed, 20 Jun 2018 15:00:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailfrontend2 ([10.202.2.163]) by compute7.internal (MEProxy); Wed, 20 Jun 2018 15:00:33 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cooperw.in; h=cc :content-transfer-encoding:content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-me-sender :x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm3; bh=CzhuiMAlDPjMyT/uhd03DDznHkbkh +ZlFNrF3WToGEk=; b=yp09zSVno6kE3NhpUT6HG7es4PvpfV/fTut1L8m4ZCSdy m6+rgv0P7wmygey5KUa52d0zOK86fJzOHUhXFf9Ct7gASmrhkaLqt2rdb/PtFhy+ MTM1xXcxOhEboPrBH9kFNLGuFS5cbLLrTCbU5ktD/oEhAO9lHhs1xvYeloT3oXry LgfX0UGZVajeQFrZqpZQKO3u0XEFI8DMei3Ow+nYKq+NaeD4nayNu4KvsB/O48Xw xEGIITvPFniGc/rRyceeOwgc0SbFxiil/xb9NTQZDfTxI+sIHyHWD7MN+xcA2t9g 0dAMxdK6ZoDrMutZ8WQqAc0ONXWTl8nVgnPpOPYAQ== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm3; bh=CzhuiM AlDPjMyT/uhd03DDznHkbkh+ZlFNrF3WToGEk=; b=rHNByLnD8o5aZj6yqeDE2S l58Ukas27FHe+1gZ93ZT9OjTaXEcZafrrKR4O9d+SBz53ylh6LwmCkwPT1hRQJW4 QM6G1Q2PVgkGqrrTQzj5FHcOJolYeU44AFr1ld/hx8W68kTBvxhLjfbZp1A/X5JV OZINj02FDeR/W3kdOI1A8rF58+5AMSBXg9zJu7rSr2Jq1WHEKPHemCRtw04mFM43 jHvYFs8awZWpby9SSdgCM3Y+DsJlP4BWSvTV3xbu7Qslq7tCA1dXXlamHV7WX745 tjEYj43+rc3CqFiDo1XJJgkp0MAbZgN/U74PfM/pDhxAJT5jF64pyml3AP7g79nw == X-ME-Proxy: X-ME-Sender: Received: from rtp-alcoop-nitro2.cisco.com (unknown [173.38.117.75]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 2211410273; Wed, 20 Jun 2018 15:00:33 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) From: Alissa Cooper In-Reply-To: <152873414342.2872.16681801090252484956@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2018 15:00:32 -0400 Cc: General Area Review Team , dcrup@ietf.org, draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto.all@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <1C53D9C5-490D-4494-860F-C5DF50B181C9@cooperw.in> References: <152873414342.2872.16681801090252484956@ietfa.amsl.com> To: Pete Resnick X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dcrup] [Gen-art] Genart last call review of draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto-12 X-BeenThere: dcrup@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: DKIM Crypto Update List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2018 19:00:55 -0000 Pete, thanks for your review. I think the whole point of chartering = DCRUP was to produce documents such as this. John, thanks for updating to reference RFC 8174, although I agree with = Adam that the boilerplate should match 8174. Thanks, Alissa > On Jun 11, 2018, at 12:22 PM, Pete Resnick = wrote: >=20 > Reviewer: Pete Resnick > Review result: Ready with Nits >=20 > I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. The General Area > Review Team (Gen-ART) reviews all IETF documents being processed > by the IESG for the IETF Chair. Please treat these comments just > like any other last call comments. >=20 > For more information, please see the FAQ at >=20 > . >=20 > Document: draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto-12 > Reviewer: Pete Resnick > Review Date: 2018-06-11 > IETF LC End Date: 2018-06-12 > IESG Telechat date: 2018-06-21 >=20 > Summary: Nice simple document; Ready to go with nits. >=20 > Major issues: >=20 > None. >=20 > Minor issues: >=20 > None. >=20 > Nits/editorial comments: >=20 > Nit: You should update the 2119 template to the 8174 template. >=20 > Comment: If this kind of update is only going to happen every 6 or 7 = years, I > guess it's fine, but all that this document really does is: - = Trivially update > the ABNF - Add the algorithm to the registry - Update the normative > instructions to indicate that this new algorithm be used. That really = could > have all be done with a registry update if the registry had a field = for > normative instructions for use of the algorithm. I suppose it's no = longer a big > deal to add one more document to the eight-odd-thousand RFCs, but = still... >=20 > pr >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Gen-art mailing list > Gen-art@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/gen-art From nobody Wed Jun 20 12:36:37 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dcrup@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dcrup@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B7F2131146 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2018 12:36:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.001 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1536-bit key) header.d=iecc.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tji8PU-arGqd for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2018 12:36:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gal.iecc.com (gal.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:43:6f73:7461]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A839F13112A for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2018 12:36:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 8421 invoked from network); 20 Jun 2018 19:36:30 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:user-agent; s=20e2.5b2aacbe.k1806; bh=8eJDFYzVzhZJ2ZJkawcxULh6dWX946me03jDeQgH45o=; b=fMAqKS5BMIUtuHKG9/kcnepoA1+UkP/i/+XBFmEwQ+2M/XV1KJukZz8txE2w4chSQSl/y+o2QIeVIHTnxVzamxBNvqsABVnPCPPIAZ9K1REXCYKjrfk8Z7v9OBDDR4tdBOHVJzw+clDY5ht+jtFItLFchK4mAHQqKTAzniRgmVFPy98nLy9Qyq71OksQ3/bDo7JcDZbuKjqpSrxCIf1Kh49Vf0ybXRuAI7qRnbP1lF4VQF0FU7j3Hc/6Boolz6z+ Received: from localhost ([IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126::78:696d:6170]) by imap.iecc.com ([IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126::78:696d:6170]) with ESMTPS (TLS1.2/X.509/AEAD) via TCP6; 20 Jun 2018 19:36:30 -0000 Date: 20 Jun 2018 15:36:29 -0400 Message-ID: From: "John R. Levine" To: "Alissa Cooper" Cc: "The IESG" , fenton@bluepopcorn.net, dcrup@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <152952113771.28604.16540871887861131505.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> References: <152952113771.28604.16540871887861131505.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.21 (OSX 202 2017-01-01) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dcrup] [taugh.com-standards] Alissa Cooper's No Objection on draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto-13: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: dcrup@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: DKIM Crypto Update List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2018 19:36:35 -0000 On Wed, 20 Jun 2018, Alissa Cooper wrote: > > Seems like this can be removed from Sec. 1: > "Discussion Venue: Discussion about this draft is directed to the > dcrup@ietf.org [1] mailing list." The XML reveals all. Regards, John Levine, johnl@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly From nobody Wed Jun 20 12:51:46 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dcrup@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dcrup@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C516213111F for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2018 12:45:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.001 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1536-bit key) header.d=iecc.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZJd1StEetxqR for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2018 12:45:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gal.iecc.com (gal.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:43:6f73:7461]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B44E4130F58 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2018 12:45:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 8921 invoked from network); 20 Jun 2018 19:38:25 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:user-agent; s=22d6.5b2aad31.k1806; bh=kOOqveVcSeW0xsdabHW5Zv1dCqD2xglKxacTpuy7e3A=; b=axIK/ikTqQPqHfU2wxU+fddwe7lB2vto6vJHWFk7iYEzb/r44Ww0CpPxsz9lF8Ol1bdAAv2ozW5z8HTfgeCvtDqEMwHAVu7vhzssZbigudlW46v/i8I+De1N635061ZHkckCJZylgeFCmzesXPoKqpq3KJAAaIxIKEjE0+VvJSC1q+OhoBk09xOA7iuSeMGW8Hp45d1xU+f7URaF4DJF38/9Hwp4bBsH5XfvTO6l3b0f88eXnYSonEr0JjMxBXu0 Received: from localhost ([IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126::78:696d:6170]) by imap.iecc.com ([IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126::78:696d:6170]) with ESMTPS (TLS1.2/X.509/AEAD) via TCP6; 20 Jun 2018 19:38:24 -0000 Date: 20 Jun 2018 15:38:24 -0400 Message-ID: From: "John R. Levine" To: "Alissa Cooper" Cc: "Pete Resnick" , "General Area Review Team" , dcrup@ietf.org, draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto.all@ietf.org, rsalz@akamai.com, "Murray Kucherawy" , alexey.melnikov@isode.com, ben@nostrum.com, adam@nostrum.com, "Alexey Melnikov" , fenton@bluepopcorn.net In-Reply-To: <1C53D9C5-490D-4494-860F-C5DF50B181C9@cooperw.in> References: <152873414342.2872.16681801090252484956@ietfa.amsl.com> <1C53D9C5-490D-4494-860F-C5DF50B181C9@cooperw.in> User-Agent: Alpine 2.21 (OSX 202 2017-01-01) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 20 Jun 2018 12:51:44 -0700 Subject: Re: [Dcrup] [taugh.com-standards] Re: [Gen-art] Genart last call review of draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto-12 X-BeenThere: dcrup@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: DKIM Crypto Update List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2018 19:45:09 -0000 > Pete, thanks for your review. I think the whole point of chartering DCRUP was to produce documents such as this. > John, thanks for updating to reference RFC 8174, although I agree with Adam that the boilerplate should match 8174. It's fixed in the copy I have here, waiting to see what other nits to fix show up in LC before posting the final. By the way, there are comments in the XML pointing out the stuff to remove, which have been there all along. R's, John From nobody Thu Jun 21 08:08:13 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dcrup@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dcrup@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F2AF130E84; Thu, 21 Jun 2018 07:25:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=cooperw.in header.b=ZX28S1EX; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=p67rLkxY Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kKL3AP1NorEb; Thu, 21 Jun 2018 07:25:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from out2-smtp.messagingengine.com (out2-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.26]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 27609130E77; Thu, 21 Jun 2018 07:25:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from compute7.internal (compute7.nyi.internal [10.202.2.47]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76A9621C77; Thu, 21 Jun 2018 10:25:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailfrontend1 ([10.202.2.162]) by compute7.internal (MEProxy); Thu, 21 Jun 2018 10:25:19 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cooperw.in; h=cc :content-transfer-encoding:content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-me-sender :x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm3; bh=7Ydhcfwjmrlwj0qEB4JXTDwpjE+gB VKN0iip3/34B9g=; b=ZX28S1EXEyDIU8wpUHcMHE2tZ2sIW+TY6RWeGILuv55iX CDY/0ab6Q0rzeCvPZKWFCOQpu6qnAwsZl4pW/fRShoR2Kg1WLT8xDd6iOopxSJyK 2ekfYbECEsK33GqZGuTqqSNI2f2QXOBqFWQnEUM/ImIA+ncQ9RT7WKNW2veiKvg5 CT1SP+hnYkq2hH1CtCLbPfKgKtYIRjm4yUUzFM6/3obVCwhD7JNdqhbDBZa9fumf zcRiiK10MEwXbGv0Zv7NJCSW7y8TdDYkFOZoWph4WZg69c53iW1NYLsrUPDe//Ns jHx+Rzw57Og95hViFuUqAoWkMCWDYCLGxuEYWR56g== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm3; bh=7Ydhcf wjmrlwj0qEB4JXTDwpjE+gBVKN0iip3/34B9g=; b=p67rLkxYLI9qK8Pv3Xqc89 JVFvUSk4sUM2PGXIdWd3mtKoT+0JeHgHLlLUfVS8KlnIxpBZPGauUcDlPIco3V7n 4wshzRdyTNxAhYr5GNl8xEp6z5E3E7CbPzNAi12gW858wwte2dxWT6CR9W+QX6Gx gSbaOt3vPZ2vdGDbbWkTj4yd+vU9AG4W22+a/uOqGHoWZLnXv2CQ1oHCybf36iKU iT9ewpnan6zw64R9ywp0yPOol6Jf8C4c1kubEO69cRQYSol/8RPDFma5/hITR2Uf YB29fR6ysPcfW/goZAKtgOIvAyzF/jBNPpwJclLuWd81KiFJZMwSEFJrNpDYdiog == X-ME-Proxy: X-ME-Sender: Received: from rtp-alcoop-nitro2.cisco.com (unknown [173.38.117.75]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 93489E4329; Thu, 21 Jun 2018 10:25:18 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) From: Alissa Cooper In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2018 10:25:17 -0400 Cc: Pete Resnick , General Area Review Team , dcrup@ietf.org, draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto.all@ietf.org, rsalz@akamai.com, Murray Kucherawy , alexey.melnikov@isode.com, ben@nostrum.com, Adam Roach , Alexey Melnikov , fenton@bluepopcorn.net Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <70148263-1CDA-4E2E-972B-C2414FC290B6@cooperw.in> References: <152873414342.2872.16681801090252484956@ietfa.amsl.com> <1C53D9C5-490D-4494-860F-C5DF50B181C9@cooperw.in> To: "John R. Levine" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 21 Jun 2018 08:08:10 -0700 Subject: Re: [Dcrup] [taugh.com-standards] [Gen-art] Genart last call review of draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto-12 X-BeenThere: dcrup@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: DKIM Crypto Update List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2018 14:25:24 -0000 > On Jun 20, 2018, at 3:38 PM, John R. Levine wrote: >=20 >> Pete, thanks for your review. I think the whole point of chartering = DCRUP was to produce documents such as this. >> John, thanks for updating to reference RFC 8174, although I agree = with Adam that the boilerplate should match 8174. >=20 > It's fixed in the copy I have here, waiting to see what other nits to = fix show up in LC before posting the final. >=20 > By the way, there are comments in the XML pointing out the stuff to = remove, which have been there all along. Ok. I don=E2=80=99t read the XML when doing my IESG reviews. Alissa >=20 > R's, > John From nobody Thu Jun 21 08:08:18 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dcrup@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dcrup@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BE5E130E9B; Thu, 21 Jun 2018 07:30:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=fastmail.fm header.b=RPP+RfTN; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=aFgm8ADf Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6vr-7AGDUOEK; Thu, 21 Jun 2018 07:30:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from out2-smtp.messagingengine.com (out2-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.26]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 12BA1130E77; Thu, 21 Jun 2018 07:30:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from compute7.internal (compute7.nyi.internal [10.202.2.47]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6BACC21D49; Thu, 21 Jun 2018 10:30:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from web5 ([10.202.2.215]) by compute7.internal (MEProxy); Thu, 21 Jun 2018 10:30:08 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fastmail.fm; h= cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-me-sender :x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm3; bh=f4M9/cSlB1bgqR/kfup4SytSnqrCK /ulnnvrmAmUK7o=; b=RPP+RfTNaZy8RVK7Rl93ecinbbfZH6yt1uX8CZxARYIlJ jbzNfDXNrSX4It/jT3KEpZHd3lk/Qg4pBvXl0TsYUQVn2XjTWwGeWBRQUjOIDPcf S50Q6pSg1u6FPH4LXx5o082xaojo7DxnmtzmqIv9gwvP0qmmYu++CsPFj5Lz04xq R5FzJeFx4LMhD6IIh3r88WFVU+PXGfKqxd+mMyTmwyKvyukHj2JyyWF7Zy2FkcWJ 1d3V9a3kLH4bCvSZ0HBMt2D+Qy+6FYmQKaUkVV4IKBTfveijuITgWnvchKhOhyJ+ kAFRIIA/td5lKZzhDOQPBNZjiADhPuOegliEan8yA== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm3; bh=f4M9/c SlB1bgqR/kfup4SytSnqrCK/ulnnvrmAmUK7o=; b=aFgm8ADfxJ3/Heqmin6yq7 HkBHanHHXe/d08FOMDwYokAUXcVrnE4u6Pm56kZTK1up+F+uB02Fbc266P0c8qXO IspjJVC5i7ja9iuv6ahjeRMLHxcMTHf7DzzQBgheyEeUnDEmEY35UGaMZXZ6FN5A 7ePHpvZgiwLfHPPjuhbUQuMEOMsZAVeAnRi9zuQAhwN0hqS5w97NDrAvR077lXuY YVd60nEnius9YcvvtrhTc0aprwKBg14Wtp/J6Hffr2E/Tpb17diM/iUzbBnRAx5m NKoZvmJXIxqw2uycFwZCdvRgmlcjcJYdY3H9J87PHrHtgNgWYvAXKxrxn1iTlx7A == X-ME-Proxy: X-ME-Sender: Received: by mailuser.nyi.internal (Postfix, from userid 99) id 450E99E09E; Thu, 21 Jun 2018 10:30:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <1529591408.3206052.1415811944.244A966F@webmail.messagingengine.com> From: Alexey Melnikov To: "John R. Levine" Cc: Pete Resnick , General Area Review Team , dcrup@ietf.org, draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto.all@ietf.org, rsalz@akamai.com, Murray Kucherawy , alexey.melnikov@isode.com, ben@nostrum.com, adam@nostrum.com, fenton@bluepopcorn.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface - ajax-0d8ea36c Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2018 15:30:08 +0100 In-Reply-To: References: <152873414342.2872.16681801090252484956@ietfa.amsl.com> <1C53D9C5-490D-4494-860F-C5DF50B181C9@cooperw.in> Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 21 Jun 2018 08:08:10 -0700 Subject: Re: [Dcrup] [taugh.com-standards] Re: [Gen-art] Genart last call review of draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto-12 X-BeenThere: dcrup@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: DKIM Crypto Update List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2018 14:30:11 -0000 Hi John, On Wed, Jun 20, 2018, at 8:38 PM, John R. Levine wrote: > > Pete, thanks for your review. I think the whole point of chartering DCRUP was to produce documents such as this. > > John, thanks for updating to reference RFC 8174, although I agree with Adam that the boilerplate should match 8174. > > It's fixed in the copy I have here, waiting to see what other nits to > fix show up in LC before posting the final. Please post a new revision. The document is approved pending a new revision (or an email from you saying that none is needed). Thank you, Alexey > By the way, there are comments in the XML pointing out the stuff to > remove, which have been there all along. From nobody Thu Jun 21 08:41:53 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dcrup@ietf.org Delivered-To: dcrup@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1855C1310BE; Thu, 21 Jun 2018 08:41:51 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: dcrup@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.81.3 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <152959571104.31792.15749321132304995225@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2018 08:41:51 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Dcrup] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto-14.txt X-BeenThere: dcrup@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 List-Id: DKIM Crypto Update List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2018 15:41:52 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the DKIM Crypto Update WG of the IETF. Title : A new cryptographic signature method for DKIM Author : John Levine Filename : draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto-14.txt Pages : 8 Date : 2018-06-21 Abstract: This document adds a new signing algorithm,ed25519-sha256, to DKIM [RFC6376]. DKIM verifiers are required to implement this algorithm. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto-14 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto-14 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto-14 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Thu Jun 21 08:49:10 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dcrup@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dcrup@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5612712F1A5 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2018 08:43:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1536-bit key) header.d=iecc.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id flm6RAEcjh0u for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2018 08:43:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gal.iecc.com (gal.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:43:6f73:7461]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E645B130EE3 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2018 08:43:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 44995 invoked from network); 21 Jun 2018 15:43:52 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:user-agent; s=afc0.5b2bc7b8.k1806; bh=BsqBzjv8gHWnjUJtOOjUn0uQYDv9qKANsXY41sLTT1Q=; b=E5CJD31WN2KFrgNONjSpeiMN43Y6Mkdp+mfwesGqr43WuMbC8QYn7e8iLb595p8F9tmB0qoRvWLehezQncHaATPtVCBkFoJ2i1DxESXV6h6J+fVUcfBT8BexOLwamhJEIQ1vd3B/HVAWztFGNNm/XJ+L8b6715MIVgOEBotIPVLnggu1fcFwK46AOlomaIGobM0hurEmUKExCJdGpG2xHjyhSO+Dh3a1EE352wE1OKdU957UqP6V/BdMGyGhKtyC Received: from localhost ([IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126::78:696d:6170]) by imap.iecc.com ([IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126::78:696d:6170]) with ESMTPS (TLS1.2/X.509/AEAD) via TCP6; 21 Jun 2018 15:43:52 -0000 Date: 21 Jun 2018 11:43:52 -0400 Message-ID: From: "John R. Levine" To: "Alexey Melnikov" Cc: "Pete Resnick" , "General Area Review Team" , dcrup@ietf.org, rsalz@akamai.com, "Murray Kucherawy" , alexey.melnikov@isode.com, ben@nostrum.com, adam@nostrum.com, fenton@bluepopcorn.net In-Reply-To: <1529591408.3206052.1415811944.244A966F@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <152873414342.2872.16681801090252484956@ietfa.amsl.com> <1C53D9C5-490D-4494-860F-C5DF50B181C9@cooperw.in> <1529591408.3206052.1415811944.244A966F@webmail.messagingengine.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.21 (OSX 202 2017-01-01) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 21 Jun 2018 08:49:08 -0700 Subject: Re: [Dcrup] [taugh.com-standards] Re:Re: [Gen-art] Genart last call review of draft-ietf-dcrup-dkim-crypto-12 X-BeenThere: dcrup@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: DKIM Crypto Update List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2018 15:43:57 -0000 > Please post a new revision. The document is approved pending a new revision (or an email from you saying that none is needed). I posted -14 which I think addresses the comments. Changed security section to point to 8032 for ed25519 rather than RSA. Added a sentence noting the two independent signatures. Fixed the MUSTard boiletplate. Whew! Regards, John Levine, johnl@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly