From nobody Mon Nov 3 08:11:12 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 489BF1A03A4 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2014 08:11:11 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.444 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.444 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Qc4AKVa80oev for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2014 08:11:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from tcmail43.telekom.de (tcmail43.telekom.de [80.149.113.173]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B28311A0077 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2014 08:11:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from qdezc2.de.t-internal.com ([10.125.181.10]) by tcmail41.telekom.de with ESMTP; 03 Nov 2014 17:11:05 +0100 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.07,308,1413237600"; d="scan'208";a="160285639" Received: from he111629.emea1.cds.t-internal.com ([10.134.93.21]) by qde0ps.de.t-internal.com with ESMTP/TLS/AES128-SHA; 03 Nov 2014 17:11:04 +0100 Received: from HE113667.emea1.cds.t-internal.com ([fe80::c943:1394:e86e:fce3]) by HE111629.emea1.cds.t-internal.com ([::1]) with mapi; Mon, 3 Nov 2014 17:11:04 +0100 From: To: , Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2014 17:11:03 +0100 Thread-Topic: [dispatch] WG: New Version Notification for draft-jesske-dispatch-forking-answer-correlation-02.txt Thread-Index: Ac/0Xj8rSLiULc4cSGC+11ogzHq0mwDHjdAQ Message-ID: <058CE00BD4D6B94FAD033A2439EA1E4B01E4FF6F4904@HE113667.emea1.cds.t-internal.com> References: <058CE00BD4D6B94FAD033A2439EA1E4B01E4FF223A21@HE113667.emea1.cds.t-internal.com> <5452669B.4050504@alum.mit.edu> In-Reply-To: <5452669B.4050504@alum.mit.edu> Accept-Language: en-US, de-DE Content-Language: de-DE X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US, de-DE Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dispatch/Z7ewZqw1eMQ2OYetOLLcH-bPrp8 Subject: Re: [dispatch] WG: New Version Notification for draft-jesske-dispatch-forking-answer-correlation-02.txt X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2014 16:11:11 -0000 SGkgUGF1bCwNClRoYW5rIHlvdSBmb3IgeW91ciBjb21tZW50cy4NCg0KSGVyZSBhcmUgbXkgY29t bWVudHM6DQoNCj4gLS0tLS1VcnNwcsO8bmdsaWNoZSBOYWNocmljaHQtLS0tLQ0KPiBWb246IGRp c3BhdGNoIFttYWlsdG86ZGlzcGF0Y2gtYm91bmNlc0BpZXRmLm9yZ10gSW0gQXVmdHJhZyB2b24g UGF1bA0KPiBLeXppdmF0DQo+IEdlc2VuZGV0OiBEb25uZXJzdGFnLCAzMC4gT2t0b2JlciAyMDE0 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IGRpc3BhdGNoQGlldGYub3JnDQo+IGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGlu Zm8vZGlzcGF0Y2gNCg== From nobody Mon Nov 3 08:51:47 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1EFF1A0211 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2014 08:51:43 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7.194 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.194 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JUklSI1EniuD for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2014 08:51:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from edge20.ethz.ch (edge20.ethz.ch [82.130.99.26]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A6D571A00C5 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2014 08:51:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from CAS21.d.ethz.ch (172.31.51.111) by edge20.ethz.ch (82.130.99.26) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.195.1; Mon, 3 Nov 2014 17:51:35 +0100 Received: from MBX110.d.ethz.ch ([fe80::9d9a:a7f2:c282:5f6a]) by CAS21.d.ethz.ch ([fe80::55ba:c4a5:d8a7:ab62%10]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Mon, 3 Nov 2014 17:51:36 +0100 From: "Kovatsch Matthias" To: "dispatch@ietf.org" , =?utf-8?B?SmFpbWUgSmltw6luZXo=?= , Gonzalo Camarillo Thread-Topic: [dispatch] Review of draft-jimenez-p2psip-coap-reload Thread-Index: Ac/3gYDEXGtUD/glRdqzegozose6Xw== Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2014 16:51:35 +0000 Message-ID: <55877B3AFB359744BA0F2140E36F52B52A3EF5FF@MBX110.d.ethz.ch> Accept-Language: en-US, de-CH Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [77.57.171.155] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dispatch/OpUi8RYAPZQvZkpF90WKv-a2GMI Cc: =?utf-8?B?QXJpIEtlcsOkbmVu?= Subject: Re: [dispatch] Review of draft-jimenez-p2psip-coap-reload X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2014 16:51:44 -0000 RGVhciBHb256YWxvIGFuZCBKYWltZSwNCmRlYXIgbGlzdA0KDQpUaGFua3MgZm9yIHlvdXIgY29t bWVudHMsIHRoZXkgcmVhbGx5IGhlbHBlZCB0byBnZXQgdGhlIHdob2xlIGlkZWEuIEkgdGhpbmsg aXQgd291bGQgaW1wcm92ZSB0aGUgZHJhZnQgd2hlbiB0aGUgaW50cm9kdWN0aW9uIGNsZWFybHkg ZXhwbGFpbnMgdGhlIGxheWVyaW5nIChieSBhbHNvIHByb3ZpZGluZyB1c2UgY2FzZXMpIGFuZCBs aXN0cyB0aGUgZmVhdHVyZXMgdGhhdCBDb0FQIHdpbGwgdXNlIGZyb20gUkVMT0FEIChlLmcuLCBj YWNoaW5nIGFuZCB0aGF0IEROUyBiZWNvbWVzIG9ic29sZXRlIGFuZCB0aGF0IHRoZSBhZGRyZXNz ZXMgYXJlIHJlc29sdmVkIGluIGEgY29tcGxldGVseSBkaWZmZXJlbnQgd2F5KS4NCg0KSSB0aGlu 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ZCBJIGN1cnJlbnRseSBkbyBub3Qga25vdyBpZiBpdCBpcyByZXNvbHZlZCB5ZXQuDQoNCkEgc2Vj b25kYXJ5IGlzc3VlIGlzIHRoZSBpbnRlZ3JhdGlvbiB3aXRoIHJlc291cmNlIGRpcmVjdG9yaWVz LiBJIHRoaW5rLCBpdCB3b3VsZCBiZSBnb29kIGlmIG5vcm1hbCBSRHMgYW5kIFJFTE9BRC1SRHMg Y291bGQgY29leGlzdCBhbmQgbGluayB0byBlYWNoIG90aGVyLiBUaGlzIHdvdWxkIG1lYW4gdGhl eSB1c2UgdGhlIHNhbWUgbWVjaGFuaXNtcw0KQlRXOiBOb3JtYWwgUkRzIGFyZSBub3QgZGlzdHJp YnV0ZWQgaW4gdGhlIFAyUCBzZW5zZSwgYnV0IHRoZXkgY2FuIGJlIG1pcnJvcmVkIGFuZCBkaXN0 cmlidXRlZCBsaWtlIEROUyBzZXJ2ZXJzLg0KDQpJIGFsc28gc3R1bWJsZWQgdXBvbiB0aGlzIHBh cGVyLCB3aGljaCBwcm9wb3NlcyBhIHNpbWlsYXIgYXBwcm9hY2g6DQpodHRwOi8vaWVlZXhwbG9y ZS5pZWVlLm9yZy94cGwvYWJzdHJhY3RBdXRob3JzLmpzcD90cD0mYXJudW1iZXI9Njg5OTU3OQ0K QXJlIHlvdSBhd2FyZSBvZiB0aGlzIHdvcms/IE1heWJlIHRoZXJlIGlzIHNvbWV0aGluZyB1c2Vm dWwgdGhhdCBjYW4gYmUgaW5jbHVkZWQgaW4gdGhlIGRyYWZ0Lg0KDQpCZXN0IHJlZ2FyZHMNCk1h dHRoaWFzDQo= From nobody Sun Nov 9 09:41:14 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 711951A1BFF for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2014 09:41:09 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.348 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.348 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_40=-0.001, HELO_EQ_SE=0.35, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LSz9icQu09DU for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2014 09:41:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp7.webway.se (smtp7.webway.se [IPv6:2a02:920:212e::205]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C50211A1BEB for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2014 09:41:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.40.15] (h87-96-134-129.dynamic.se.alltele.net [87.96.134.129]) by smtp7.webway.se (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 328EB93C1AF; Sun, 9 Nov 2014 17:40:42 +0000 (UTC) From: "Olle E. Johansson" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2014 18:41:05 +0100 Message-Id: <08B87AC6-270F-4CFA-A698-3F3DDA1FA484@edvina.net> To: dispatch@ietf.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dispatch/ZqhL6TfiJ4y7cu-L6WlZzCU8aSA Subject: [dispatch] draft-procter-dispatch-outbound-discovery-01 X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2014 17:41:09 -0000 Hello, I do think this work is important. But I don't think the current proposal fits my requirement. For me, it's important that the SIP outbound proxys used are in = different networks. I need to be able to=20 force a client to choose between two or more sets of proxys in different = locations so they end up with one server in one data center and another server somewhere else. If I just have one SRV name, I don't see how I can make this happen. = With two SRV names, it can happen - but we can have a need for more. SIP outbounds says that we = need a minimum of two flows. I think we may need a NAPTR solution that ends up with a set of SRV = names that you pick one each from. All SRV lists have their own failover rules that I as a = manager of my service set up and publish to make sure that UAs have connections to different = networks/servers/ datacenters or planets. I think this draft should be dispatched to sipcore and dealt with in = that group. /O= From nobody Sun Nov 9 09:50:12 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 059961A1C00 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2014 09:50:11 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7.494 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.494 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kN-S90KXFkcK for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2014 09:50:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp-fr.alcatel-lucent.com (fr-hpgre-esg-01.alcatel-lucent.com [135.245.210.22]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DB5821A1B32 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2014 09:50:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from fr711usmtp1.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (unknown [135.239.2.122]) by Websense Email Security Gateway with ESMTPS id 8DA909A359B83; Sun, 9 Nov 2014 17:50:04 +0000 (GMT) Received: from FR711WXCHHUB02.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (fr711wxchhub02.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com [135.239.2.112]) by fr711usmtp1.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (GMO) with ESMTP id sA9Ho4kE001535 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Sun, 9 Nov 2014 18:50:07 +0100 Received: from FR712WXCHMBA11.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com ([169.254.7.25]) by FR711WXCHHUB02.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com ([135.239.2.112]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Sun, 9 Nov 2014 18:50:04 +0100 From: "DRAGE, Keith (Keith)" To: "Olle E. Johansson" , "dispatch@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [dispatch] draft-procter-dispatch-outbound-discovery-01 Thread-Index: AQHP/ERf+zbwg4p3WEOapOaQjoqEEpxYkNPg Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2014 17:50:03 +0000 Message-ID: <949EF20990823C4C85C18D59AA11AD8B2748F8@FR712WXCHMBA11.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> References: <08B87AC6-270F-4CFA-A698-3F3DDA1FA484@edvina.net> In-Reply-To: <08B87AC6-270F-4CFA-A698-3F3DDA1FA484@edvina.net> Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [135.239.27.39] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dispatch/oOHKy4dfABBTaJQ1JtHwO7FbAKg Subject: Re: [dispatch] draft-procter-dispatch-outbound-discovery-01 X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2014 17:50:11 -0000 I'd note that if I tried to apply your requirement to IMS, that would proba= bly end up having to be two separate discovery actions, one for each networ= k. So basically what I think I am saying is that the solution for your problem= depends on the relationship between the operator of the registrar and the = operator(s) of each of the edge proxies.=20 If you perform the edge proxy discovery directly with the registrar operato= r, then you need only one action. If the edge proxy discovery is supported = by the edge proxy operators, then you need separate actions if there are tw= o separate edge proxy operators. Regards Keith > -----Original Message----- > From: dispatch [mailto:dispatch-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf=20 > Of Olle E. Johansson > Sent: 09 November 2014 17:41 > To: dispatch@ietf.org > Subject: [dispatch] draft-procter-dispatch-outbound-discovery-01 >=20 > Hello, >=20 > I do think this work is important. >=20 > But I don't think the current proposal fits my requirement. >=20 > For me, it's important that the SIP outbound proxys used are=20 > in different networks. I need to be able to force a client to=20 > choose between two or more sets of proxys in different=20 > locations so they end up with one server in one data center=20 > and another server somewhere else. >=20 > If I just have one SRV name, I don't see how I can make this=20 > happen. With two SRV names, it can happen - but we can have a=20 > need for more. SIP outbounds says that we need a minimum of two flows. >=20 > I think we may need a NAPTR solution that ends up with a set=20 > of SRV names that you pick one each from. All SRV lists have=20 > their own failover rules that I as a manager of my service=20 > set up and publish to make sure that UAs have connections to=20 > different networks/servers/ datacenters or planets. >=20 > I think this draft should be dispatched to sipcore and dealt=20 > with in that group. >=20 > /O > _______________________________________________ > dispatch mailing list > dispatch@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dispatch > = From nobody Mon Nov 10 01:10:05 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0E031A894A for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 01:10:02 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4vi9-7fzgnYN for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 01:10:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from sessmg23.ericsson.net (sessmg23.ericsson.net [193.180.251.45]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7BAB11A88A3 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 01:09:59 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: c1b4fb2d-f79fc6d000001087-06-546080e5f3ce Received: from ESESSHC015.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.253.124]) by sessmg23.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 39.BD.04231.5E080645; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 10:09:57 +0100 (CET) Received: from ESESSMB307.ericsson.se ([169.254.7.251]) by ESESSHC015.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.63]) with mapi id 14.03.0174.001; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 10:09:57 +0100 From: =?Windows-1252?Q?Jaime_Jim=E9nez?= To: Kovatsch Matthias Thread-Topic: [dispatch] Review of draft-jimenez-p2psip-coap-reload Thread-Index: Ac/3gYDEXGtUD/glRdqzegozose6XwFPCxQA Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2014 09:09:56 +0000 Message-ID: <326CB7C2-90FC-448B-B181-63DA92FCA86E@ericsson.com> References: <55877B3AFB359744BA0F2140E36F52B52A3EF5FF@MBX110.d.ethz.ch> In-Reply-To: <55877B3AFB359744BA0F2140E36F52B52A3EF5FF@MBX110.d.ethz.ch> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.148] Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_2A7F03D3-08D7-41A3-8A36-1046BA4F5F78"; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFtrKIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM+Jvje7ThoQQg9nfDC2WTlrAavHseQuj A5PHkiU/mTxuv57PHMAUxWWTkpqTWZZapG+XwJVxsm8ia8Hd0oqJ73vYGxhbM7oYOTkkBEwk 5t79wQ5hi0lcuLeerYuRi0NI4AijxO3pF5ghnCWMEufWnWEEqWITcJXoWHqRFcQWEdCR+D// EVicWWABo8TF+8UgtrCAk8T/149Zuhg5gGqcJV4+8YMoN5KYOeM6O0iYRUBVYkpbOUiYV8Be 4m3PNiaQsJCAu8TBZTogYU4BD4lF1xeCLWIEOu37qTVMEIvEJW49mc8EcbKIxMOLp9kgbFGJ l4//sULYShKNS56wglzPLDCFUeLprFYmiF2CEidnPmGZwCg6C8msWcjqZiGpgyhKkpj27gQ7 hK0tsWzha2YI20DiaecrVkxxfYk37+YwQdimEq+PfmSEsK0lZvw6yAZhK0pM6X7IvoCRexWj aHFqcXFuupGxXmpRZnJxcX6eXl5qySZGYDwf3PJbdwfj6teOhxgFOBiVeHg/fIwPEWJNLCuu zD3EKM3BoiTOu+jcvGAhgfTEktTs1NSC1KL4otKc1OJDjEwcnFINjJxpHrc2TRE0fs3YduGS VJrfMo66PzIrs2XcraZfk/+n0s3X1Nes6DL10munoE92xz9/l5PQ3FPc2COzgW/ujHmsSy/t ut6ioCCSuFJtxbsUhZ8Wis/VGkQWpSXXsQseSFx6/FnA9o4WEwu2uDShe/L6FwSDw4Uu//R1 dKuMSmUSa1kf+fmhEktxRqKhFnNRcSIA3OqHcMgCAAA= Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dispatch/CAHVdi6QLOFgVFz0f3tODMXSUuQ Cc: =?Windows-1252?Q?Ari_Ker=E4nen?= , "dispatch@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [dispatch] Review of draft-jimenez-p2psip-coap-reload X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2014 09:10:03 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_2A7F03D3-08D7-41A3-8A36-1046BA4F5F78 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_7ADC6039-4965-4F19-B6A8-70ED2B5D007A" --Apple-Mail=_7ADC6039-4965-4F19-B6A8-70ED2B5D007A Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Hi Matthias, Thank you for the comments, I still haven=92t modified the draft but I = will take them into account and forward you the modified version as soon = as it is done.=20 Now regarding the link to the paper you forwarded. I have briefly = scanned through it and what they proposed is similar to our draft and = even more similar to our paper in 2012 = (http://link.springer.com/article/10.1186%2F1687-1499-2012-121) and the = DRD draft = (http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-jimenez-distributed-resource-directory-0= 0.html). Of course now in late 2014 their approach introduces a lot of = new things from CoRE that we did not have back then. Seeing that other = people come up with this problem and similar solution is encouraging to = try to work on it some more. The basic principle of having a distributed network of WSN islands is = the same as in our work. They also rely on a gateway that acts as CoAP = server/client/http proxy/=85and as a local RD on behalf of other CoAP = EPs in the WSN. They use the .well-known to link the EP resources to the = .well-known on the GW, which makes sense. The different part is that = they use two different DHT systems: DGT and DLS, the GW has to be a peer = on both of them. DGT ads the GPS coordinates to the mapping, making = discovery bind to the location of the device, this means that in = mobility scenarios it would not work alone. That is why they also use = DLS in parallel, to also have name resolution.=20 In our draft we are only looking at the second case, and we already do = it very similarly as they do using DLS. Another issue is that we are = trying to marry RELOAD and CoAP, not only DHTs and CoAP. RELOAD has its = own quirks so I would suggest to keep the two differentiated even if = they are similar. However it would be great to have people collaborate = on DRD too. Ciao, - - Jaime Jimenez On 03 Nov 2014, at 18:51, Kovatsch Matthias = wrote: > Dear Gonzalo and Jaime, > dear list >=20 > Thanks for your comments, they really helped to get the whole idea. I = think it would improve the draft when the introduction clearly explains = the layering (by also providing use cases) and lists the features that = CoAP will use from RELOAD (e.g., caching and that DNS becomes obsolete = and that the addresses are resolved in a completely different way). >=20 > I think I will need this update to better understand some of the = described features. The caching and discovery mechanisms do not appear = to be compatible with the normal CoAP mechanisms. I think from a = programmers point of view, this abstraction should be transparent, that = is, the programmer can use the same CoAP APIs and make the same requests = to achieve application goals as if there was no RELOAD network = underneath. Maybe this is the case, but it is hard to see with all the = new IANA considerations :) >=20 > The main technical issue is then the use of URIs. Since they mean = something completely different in this draft, they need their own = scheme. A look at the alternative transports in CoRE might help here, = but it was also their main issue and I currently do not know if it is = resolved yet. >=20 > A secondary issue is the integration with resource directories. I = think, it would be good if normal RDs and RELOAD-RDs could coexist and = link to each other. This would mean they use the same mechanisms > BTW: Normal RDs are not distributed in the P2P sense, but they can be = mirrored and distributed like DNS servers. >=20 > I also stumbled upon this paper, which proposes a similar approach: > = http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/abstractAuthors.jsp?tp=3D&arnumber=3D689957= 9 > Are you aware of this work? Maybe there is something useful that can = be included in the draft. >=20 > Best regards > Matthias --Apple-Mail=_7ADC6039-4965-4F19-B6A8-70ED2B5D007A Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Hi = Matthias,

Thank you for the comments, I still haven=92t= modified the draft but I will take them into account and forward you = the modified version as soon as it is = done. 

Now regarding the link to the paper = you forwarded. I have briefly scanned through it and what they proposed = is similar to our draft and even more similar to our paper in 2012 (http:= //link.springer.com/article/10.1186%2F1687-1499-2012-121) and = the DRD draft (http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-jimenez-distributed-resour= ce-directory-00.html). Of course now in late 2014 their approach = introduces a lot of new things from CoRE that we did not have back then. = Seeing that other people come up with this problem and similar solution = is encouraging to try to work on it some = more.

The basic principle of having a = distributed network of WSN islands is the same as in our work. They also = rely on a gateway that acts as CoAP server/client/http proxy/=85and as a = local RD on behalf of other CoAP EPs in the WSN. They use the = .well-known to link the EP resources to the .well-known on the GW, which = makes sense.  The different part is that they use two different DHT = systems: DGT and DLS, the GW has to be a peer on both of them. DGT ads = the GPS coordinates to the mapping, making discovery bind to the = location of the device, this means that in mobility scenarios it would = not work alone. That is why they also use DLS in parallel, to also have = name resolution. 

In our draft we are only = looking at the second case, and we already do it very similarly as they = do using DLS. Another issue is that we are trying to marry RELOAD and = CoAP, not only DHTs and CoAP. RELOAD has its own quirks so I would = suggest to keep the two differentiated even if they are similar. However = it would be great to have people collaborate on DRD = too.

Ciao,
- - Jaime Jimenez

On 03 Nov 2014, at 18:51, Kovatsch Matthias <kovatsch@inf.ethz.ch> = wrote:

Dear Gonzalo and Jaime,
dear list

Thanks for = your comments, they really helped to get the whole idea. I think it = would improve the draft when the introduction clearly explains the = layering (by also providing use cases) and lists the features that CoAP = will use from RELOAD (e.g., caching and that DNS becomes obsolete and = that the addresses are resolved in a completely different way).

I = think I will need this update to better understand some of the described = features. The caching and discovery mechanisms do not appear to be = compatible with the normal CoAP mechanisms. I think from a programmers = point of view, this abstraction should be transparent, that is, the = programmer can use the same CoAP APIs and make the same requests to = achieve application goals as if there was no RELOAD network underneath. = Maybe this is the case, but it is hard to see with all the new IANA = considerations :)

The main technical issue is then the use of = URIs. Since they mean something completely different in this draft, they = need their own scheme. A look at the alternative transports in CoRE = might help here, but it was also their main issue and I currently do not = know if it is resolved yet.

A secondary issue is the integration = with resource directories. I think, it would be good if normal RDs and = RELOAD-RDs could coexist and link to each other. This would mean they = use the same mechanisms
BTW: Normal RDs are not distributed in the = P2P sense, but they can be mirrored and distributed like DNS = servers.

I also stumbled upon this paper, which proposes a = similar approach:
http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/abstractAuthors.jsp?tp=3D&am= p;arnumber=3D6899579
Are you aware of this work? Maybe there is = something useful that can be included in the draft.

Best = regards
Matthias

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Nov 10 02:07:23 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AFA91A89A2 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 02:07:22 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.551 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.551 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_SE=0.35, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JOBX_GRbnsAl for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 02:07:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp7.webway.se (smtp7.webway.se [IPv6:2a02:920:212e::205]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C23D41A89A0 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 02:07:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.40.19] (h87-96-134-129.dynamic.se.alltele.net [87.96.134.129]) by smtp7.webway.se (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 598D093C1AF; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 10:06:54 +0000 (UTC) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) From: "Olle E. Johansson" In-Reply-To: <949EF20990823C4C85C18D59AA11AD8B2748F8@FR712WXCHMBA11.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2014 11:07:16 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <2F63DF47-A4B0-4834-8B3B-81AB3EBD2B25@edvina.net> References: <08B87AC6-270F-4CFA-A698-3F3DDA1FA484@edvina.net> <949EF20990823C4C85C18D59AA11AD8B2748F8@FR712WXCHMBA11.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> To: "DRAGE, Keith (Keith)" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dispatch/EM_lCUYq7C8qY7IH5L7osG_61-U Cc: "dispatch@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [dispatch] draft-procter-dispatch-outbound-discovery-01 X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2014 10:07:22 -0000 On 09 Nov 2014, at 18:50, DRAGE, Keith (Keith) = wrote: > I'd note that if I tried to apply your requirement to IMS, that would = probably end up having to be two separate discovery actions, one for = each network. >=20 > So basically what I think I am saying is that the solution for your = problem depends on the relationship between the operator of the = registrar and the operator(s) of each of the edge proxies.=20 Ok, this is similar to Turn discovery then. Did not think of that use = case. So we may need to start lookup from DHCP options - domain - and if that doesn't exist, the SIP = domain. But I fail to see how we can handle a case of two different operators of = edge proxys - can you describe this a bit more? >=20 > If you perform the edge proxy discovery directly with the registrar = operator, then you need only one action. If the edge proxy discovery is = supported by the edge proxy operators, then you need separate actions if = there are two separate edge proxy operators. Thanks for your feedback. Do you agree that we need to continue this = work, and if so - should that happen in sipcore? /O >=20 >=20 > Regards >=20 > Keith >=20 >> -----Original Message----- >> From: dispatch [mailto:dispatch-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf=20 >> Of Olle E. Johansson >> Sent: 09 November 2014 17:41 >> To: dispatch@ietf.org >> Subject: [dispatch] draft-procter-dispatch-outbound-discovery-01 >>=20 >> Hello, >>=20 >> I do think this work is important. >>=20 >> But I don't think the current proposal fits my requirement. >>=20 >> For me, it's important that the SIP outbound proxys used are=20 >> in different networks. I need to be able to force a client to=20 >> choose between two or more sets of proxys in different=20 >> locations so they end up with one server in one data center=20 >> and another server somewhere else. >>=20 >> If I just have one SRV name, I don't see how I can make this=20 >> happen. With two SRV names, it can happen - but we can have a=20 >> need for more. SIP outbounds says that we need a minimum of two = flows. >>=20 >> I think we may need a NAPTR solution that ends up with a set=20 >> of SRV names that you pick one each from. All SRV lists have=20 >> their own failover rules that I as a manager of my service=20 >> set up and publish to make sure that UAs have connections to=20 >> different networks/servers/ datacenters or planets. >>=20 >> I think this draft should be dispatched to sipcore and dealt=20 >> with in that group. >>=20 >> /O >> _______________________________________________ >> dispatch mailing list >> dispatch@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dispatch From nobody Mon Nov 10 09:07:39 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C68961A0111 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 09:07:31 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7.494 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.494 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FXOHHCjv_ZN5 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 09:07:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp-fr.alcatel-lucent.com (fr-hpgre-esg-01.alcatel-lucent.com [135.245.210.22]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DF5BD1A00B0 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 09:07:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from fr711usmtp1.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (unknown [135.239.2.122]) by Websense Email Security Gateway with ESMTPS id 555C216AEA575; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 17:07:24 +0000 (GMT) Received: from FR711WXCHHUB01.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (fr711wxchhub01.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com [135.239.2.111]) by fr711usmtp1.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (GMO) with ESMTP id sAAH7JVj010460 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Mon, 10 Nov 2014 18:07:25 +0100 Received: from FR712WXCHMBA11.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com ([169.254.7.25]) by FR711WXCHHUB01.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com ([135.239.2.111]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 18:06:12 +0100 From: "DRAGE, Keith (Keith)" To: "Olle E. Johansson" Thread-Topic: [dispatch] draft-procter-dispatch-outbound-discovery-01 Thread-Index: AQHP/M4a+zbwg4p3WEOapOaQjoqEEpxaFOFQ Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2014 17:06:11 +0000 Message-ID: <949EF20990823C4C85C18D59AA11AD8B27664A@FR712WXCHMBA11.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> References: <08B87AC6-270F-4CFA-A698-3F3DDA1FA484@edvina.net> <949EF20990823C4C85C18D59AA11AD8B2748F8@FR712WXCHMBA11.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> <2F63DF47-A4B0-4834-8B3B-81AB3EBD2B25@edvina.net> In-Reply-To: <2F63DF47-A4B0-4834-8B3B-81AB3EBD2B25@edvina.net> Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [135.239.27.38] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dispatch/KTse_1h51KCZRb7dATyB4WS87YY Cc: "dispatch@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [dispatch] draft-procter-dispatch-outbound-discovery-01 X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2014 17:07:32 -0000 I understood it was your requirement for two separate networks "For me, it's important that the SIP outbound proxys used are in different = networks." To me that implies two separate network operators. If that is not what you = meant, can you explain more clearly. Keith > -----Original Message----- > From: Olle E. Johansson [mailto:oej@edvina.net]=20 > Sent: 10 November 2014 10:07 > To: DRAGE, Keith (Keith) > Cc: Olle E Johansson; dispatch@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [dispatch] draft-procter-dispatch-outbound-discovery-01 >=20 >=20 > On 09 Nov 2014, at 18:50, DRAGE, Keith (Keith)=20 > wrote: >=20 > > I'd note that if I tried to apply your requirement to IMS,=20 > that would probably end up having to be two separate=20 > discovery actions, one for each network. > >=20 > > So basically what I think I am saying is that the solution=20 > for your problem depends on the relationship between the=20 > operator of the registrar and the operator(s) of each of the=20 > edge proxies.=20 > Ok, this is similar to Turn discovery then. Did not think of=20 > that use case. So we may need to start lookup from DHCP=20 > options - domain - and if that doesn't exist, the SIP domain. >=20 > But I fail to see how we can handle a case of two different=20 > operators of edge proxys - can you describe this a bit more? >=20 > >=20 > > If you perform the edge proxy discovery directly with the=20 > registrar operator, then you need only one action. If the=20 > edge proxy discovery is supported by the edge proxy=20 > operators, then you need separate actions if there are two=20 > separate edge proxy operators. >=20 > Thanks for your feedback. Do you agree that we need to=20 > continue this work, and if so - should that happen in sipcore? >=20 > /O >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > > Regards > >=20 > > Keith > >=20 > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: dispatch [mailto:dispatch-bounces@ietf.org] On=20 > Behalf Of Olle=20 > >> E. Johansson > >> Sent: 09 November 2014 17:41 > >> To: dispatch@ietf.org > >> Subject: [dispatch] draft-procter-dispatch-outbound-discovery-01 > >>=20 > >> Hello, > >>=20 > >> I do think this work is important. > >>=20 > >> But I don't think the current proposal fits my requirement. > >>=20 > >> For me, it's important that the SIP outbound proxys used are in=20 > >> different networks. I need to be able to force a client to choose=20 > >> between two or more sets of proxys in different locations=20 > so they end=20 > >> up with one server in one data center and another server somewhere=20 > >> else. > >>=20 > >> If I just have one SRV name, I don't see how I can make=20 > this happen.=20 > >> With two SRV names, it can happen - but we can have a need=20 > for more.=20 > >> SIP outbounds says that we need a minimum of two flows. > >>=20 > >> I think we may need a NAPTR solution that ends up with a=20 > set of SRV=20 > >> names that you pick one each from. All SRV lists have their own=20 > >> failover rules that I as a manager of my service set up=20 > and publish=20 > >> to make sure that UAs have connections to different=20 > networks/servers/=20 > >> datacenters or planets. > >>=20 > >> I think this draft should be dispatched to sipcore and=20 > dealt with in=20 > >> that group. > >>=20 > >> /O > >> _______________________________________________ > >> dispatch mailing list > >> dispatch@ietf.org > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dispatch >=20 > = From nobody Mon Nov 10 09:48:34 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B39D1A0231 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 09:48:33 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.551 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.551 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_SE=0.35, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ibP_9qcTXmOX for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 09:48:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp7.webway.se (smtp7.webway.se [IPv6:2a02:920:212e::205]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FE251A03A2 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 09:44:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from 217-212-102-39.customer.telia.com (217-212-102-39.customer.telia.com [217.212.102.39]) by smtp7.webway.se (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 52EAC93C1AF; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 17:43:43 +0000 (UTC) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) From: "Olle E. Johansson" In-Reply-To: <949EF20990823C4C85C18D59AA11AD8B27664A@FR712WXCHMBA11.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2014 18:44:04 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <08B87AC6-270F-4CFA-A698-3F3DDA1FA484@edvina.net> <949EF20990823C4C85C18D59AA11AD8B2748F8@FR712WXCHMBA11.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> <2F63DF47-A4B0-4834-8B3B-81AB3EBD2B25@edvina.net> <949EF20990823C4C85C18D59AA11AD8B27664A@FR712WXCHMBA11.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> To: "DRAGE, Keith (Keith)" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dispatch/VPy-9e1zn6ZU711i9_MrFUDkCOM Cc: "dispatch@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [dispatch] draft-procter-dispatch-outbound-discovery-01 X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2014 17:48:33 -0000 On 10 Nov 2014, at 18:06, DRAGE, Keith (Keith) = wrote: > I understood it was your requirement for two separate networks >=20 > "For me, it's important that the SIP outbound proxys used are in = different networks." >=20 > To me that implies two separate network operators. If that is not what = you meant, can you explain more clearly. It could be two different BGP AS domains... But still my servers, just = hosted in various places. I may want two different IP routes used, so that all flows doesn't end = up on the same fiber to the same datacenter. /O >=20 > Keith >=20 >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Olle E. Johansson [mailto:oej@edvina.net]=20 >> Sent: 10 November 2014 10:07 >> To: DRAGE, Keith (Keith) >> Cc: Olle E Johansson; dispatch@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [dispatch] draft-procter-dispatch-outbound-discovery-01 >>=20 >>=20 >> On 09 Nov 2014, at 18:50, DRAGE, Keith (Keith)=20 >> wrote: >>=20 >>> I'd note that if I tried to apply your requirement to IMS,=20 >> that would probably end up having to be two separate=20 >> discovery actions, one for each network. >>>=20 >>> So basically what I think I am saying is that the solution=20 >> for your problem depends on the relationship between the=20 >> operator of the registrar and the operator(s) of each of the=20 >> edge proxies.=20 >> Ok, this is similar to Turn discovery then. Did not think of=20 >> that use case. So we may need to start lookup from DHCP=20 >> options - domain - and if that doesn't exist, the SIP domain. >>=20 >> But I fail to see how we can handle a case of two different=20 >> operators of edge proxys - can you describe this a bit more? >>=20 >>>=20 >>> If you perform the edge proxy discovery directly with the=20 >> registrar operator, then you need only one action. If the=20 >> edge proxy discovery is supported by the edge proxy=20 >> operators, then you need separate actions if there are two=20 >> separate edge proxy operators. >>=20 >> Thanks for your feedback. Do you agree that we need to=20 >> continue this work, and if so - should that happen in sipcore? >>=20 >> /O >>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Regards >>>=20 >>> Keith >>>=20 >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: dispatch [mailto:dispatch-bounces@ietf.org] On=20 >> Behalf Of Olle=20 >>>> E. Johansson >>>> Sent: 09 November 2014 17:41 >>>> To: dispatch@ietf.org >>>> Subject: [dispatch] draft-procter-dispatch-outbound-discovery-01 >>>>=20 >>>> Hello, >>>>=20 >>>> I do think this work is important. >>>>=20 >>>> But I don't think the current proposal fits my requirement. >>>>=20 >>>> For me, it's important that the SIP outbound proxys used are in=20 >>>> different networks. I need to be able to force a client to choose=20= >>>> between two or more sets of proxys in different locations=20 >> so they end=20 >>>> up with one server in one data center and another server somewhere=20= >>>> else. >>>>=20 >>>> If I just have one SRV name, I don't see how I can make=20 >> this happen.=20 >>>> With two SRV names, it can happen - but we can have a need=20 >> for more.=20 >>>> SIP outbounds says that we need a minimum of two flows. >>>>=20 >>>> I think we may need a NAPTR solution that ends up with a=20 >> set of SRV=20 >>>> names that you pick one each from. All SRV lists have their own=20 >>>> failover rules that I as a manager of my service set up=20 >> and publish=20 >>>> to make sure that UAs have connections to different=20 >> networks/servers/=20 >>>> datacenters or planets. >>>>=20 >>>> I think this draft should be dispatched to sipcore and=20 >> dealt with in=20 >>>> that group. >>>>=20 >>>> /O >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> dispatch mailing list >>>> dispatch@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dispatch >>=20 From nobody Mon Nov 10 11:15:58 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2722C1A9232 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 11:15:56 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.978 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.978 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nSucIxscUqjl for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 11:15:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-lb0-f170.google.com (mail-lb0-f170.google.com [209.85.217.170]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 178071A9168 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 11:15:43 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-lb0-f170.google.com with SMTP id p9so3207901lbv.29 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 11:15:41 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=LW/fayqwtXLt2o7d3hBd2KZXsQgVLeJ8s/2hVmZSPt4=; b=eaFydcOQ9y4BGStxInUV3MCeE57S+SzYYKs4o6322oy8mTCIg48Qi3ToyFfbo624t4 EylnrVIuDmCikM+Ilil259sr3ZbUnslY/NoqN1umx0ncz4qpT6RI4g2oRtQusIzfgZ9Y gM2Gf8U3swrgBhabRYsWL2b1GaBwtN9I6l2k0cZwHCIZQ/3zRmLH4SwUohWsDa5MF5pq vKg5wpG8KOPsQwmLjXR3Inl5J+dDC7JLS6sogTNGZQlVfXBWotq8mesJrmE+vewLLQr0 J++3bgTkbI+fI7Vwd/faWtctM1DOyNZDrUS2BdjBjuc4DBbn5giD/PG/V+ujgD/BB70v pm/g== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQm1jP1cE2N+PtS3DTjUgea+dUCVwHES1LbNS/XRnCLY7L2UIsFSlkKdtCzm68Ywtc3DBpoS MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.152.42.212 with SMTP id q20mr32162051lal.10.1415646616092; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 11:10:16 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.25.84.135 with HTTP; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 11:10:16 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <08B87AC6-270F-4CFA-A698-3F3DDA1FA484@edvina.net> <949EF20990823C4C85C18D59AA11AD8B2748F8@FR712WXCHMBA11.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> <2F63DF47-A4B0-4834-8B3B-81AB3EBD2B25@edvina.net> <949EF20990823C4C85C18D59AA11AD8B27664A@FR712WXCHMBA11.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2014 09:10:16 -1000 Message-ID: From: Simon Perreault To: "Olle E. Johansson" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c365feae1ba9050785e90f Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dispatch/jQ-sBPafFJqV4B_bp61OvZnQMg8 Cc: "dispatch@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [dispatch] draft-procter-dispatch-outbound-discovery-01 X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2014 19:15:56 -0000 --001a11c365feae1ba9050785e90f Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On Mon, Nov 10, 2014 at 7:44 AM, Olle E. Johansson wrote: > On 10 Nov 2014, at 18:06, DRAGE, Keith (Keith) < > keith.drage@alcatel-lucent.com> wrote: > > > I understood it was your requirement for two separate networks > > > > "For me, it's important that the SIP outbound proxys used are in > different networks." > > > > To me that implies two separate network operators. If that is not what > you meant, can you explain more clearly. > It could be two different BGP AS domains... But still my servers, just > hosted in various places. > I may want two different IP routes used, so that all flows doesn't end up > on the same fiber to > the same datacenter. +1 I have interest in this use case too: one SIP operator, different datacenters. Simon --001a11c365feae1ba9050785e90f Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

= On Mon, Nov 10, 2014 at 7:44 AM, Olle E. Johansson <oej@edvina.net> wrote:
On 10 Nov 20= 14, at 18:06, DRAGE, Keith (Keith) <keith.drage@alcatel-lucent.com> wrote:

> I understood it was your requirement for two separate networks
>
> "For me, it's important that the SIP outbound proxys used are= in different networks."
>
> To me that implies two separate network operators. If that is not what= you meant, can you explain more clearly.
It could be two different BGP AS domains... But still my servers, ju= st hosted in various places.
I may want two different IP routes used, so that all flows doesn't end = up on the same fiber to
the same datacenter.

+1

I = have interest in this use case too: one SIP operator, different datacenters= .

Simo= n
--001a11c365feae1ba9050785e90f-- From nobody Mon Nov 10 23:22:48 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A9ED1A8924 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 23:22:46 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IGhMUm2uu4qD for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 23:22:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wi0-x231.google.com (mail-wi0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c05::231]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B348C1A6EE8 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 23:22:44 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wi0-f177.google.com with SMTP id ex7so679847wid.16 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 23:22:43 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=+ZOoXc0dff8mdQvoTzhQ+fX5PbVBUhDncKtkjdV01zk=; b=gJc7NVZdmVE6G202cbuskT8oZeQYSNhcxektjK0HxLGySIeUGIvQ7Na18oqR4uvdqZ 5UAqvWcRBVz8bI2oDIikJG9psQtl7zQV17qPR+wuJYrjRzZvTYKl8ESKtbLLabCgFbYO W/gUPOz/7MtnnrTCGTw3451FTVb5S4IM4tapSeGI74esICpo7b+a2+m/xXqDO8w+E9Ob +muucyfkCAay4PJ8YdfYcY5lndFfs1HzMq8wcVysxF9ML6QQbzG3W2J4fceB8BQTiqE1 Jwae5JDLmC/kMI1zHb/9cGTZct+5QCsx9Aifa71IUTtwlac9eUryR3ulq1Y25hUkOnnL QXtA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.180.84.167 with SMTP id a7mr38206329wiz.39.1415690563522; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 23:22:43 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.194.66.130 with HTTP; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 23:22:43 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <08B87AC6-270F-4CFA-A698-3F3DDA1FA484@edvina.net> References: <08B87AC6-270F-4CFA-A698-3F3DDA1FA484@edvina.net> Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2014 07:22:43 +0000 Message-ID: From: Michael Procter To: "Olle E. Johansson" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dispatch/iUFtz4Q00hQDRZVVJ_4CiVPoXhA Cc: "dispatch@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [dispatch] draft-procter-dispatch-outbound-discovery-01 X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2014 07:22:46 -0000 Hi Olle, Sorry for the delay in responding. Comments inline: On 9 November 2014 17:41, Olle E. Johansson wrote: > If I just have one SRV name, I don't see how I can make this happen. With two SRV names, it > can happen - but we can have a need for more. SIP outbounds says that we need a minimum > of two flows. I don't know exactly what you mean here. Do you mean two (or more) targets for a particular SRV answer? If so, that is exactly how the draft currently operates. If you mean that you want to perform two (or more) SRV queries for different names, then that is indeed not addressed by the current draft. > I think we may need a NAPTR solution that ends up with a set of SRV names that you pick > one each from. All SRV lists have their own failover rules that I as a manager of my service > set up and publish to make sure that UAs have connections to different networks/servers/ > datacenters or planets. *If* we need a NAPTR-based solution, I would prefer it to resolve to a set of URIs which can be used as the outbound-proxy-set, rather than a set of SRV records. We could define an RFC4848-based lookup to simplify it, but I don't know if a NAPTR-based approach would get implemented by UA vendors. In the -00 version of my draft, there was a section listing a couple of alternative approaches. Section 5.1 in particular might be another way to meet your use-case. There are other variations that might be considered too (e.g. return a 305 with a list of proxies?) but the basic approach is to use SIP. I removed this section as nobody expressed any interest in anything other than the SRV-based approach! In a later mail, you discuss the possibility of starting from DHCP options. That sounds like it wouldn't meet my use-cases, but might be more appropriately addressed by the config-framework. Regards, Michael From nobody Tue Nov 11 07:47:39 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 349D41A8ABB for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 07:47:36 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id M9qRNIx4z4Ly for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 07:47:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from resqmta-po-11v.sys.comcast.net (resqmta-po-11v.sys.comcast.net [IPv6:2001:558:fe16:19:96:114:154:170]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7D6C81A8A91 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 07:47:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from resomta-po-11v.sys.comcast.net ([96.114.154.235]) by resqmta-po-11v.sys.comcast.net with comcast id EFnC1p00754zqzk01FnXK8; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 15:47:31 +0000 Received: from hobgoblin.ariadne.com ([24.34.72.61]) by resomta-po-11v.sys.comcast.net with comcast id EFnT1p0061KKtkw01FnUEU; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 15:47:31 +0000 Received: from hobgoblin.ariadne.com (hobgoblin.ariadne.com [127.0.0.1]) by hobgoblin.ariadne.com (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id sABFlQ4W007786; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 10:47:26 -0500 Received: (from worley@localhost) by hobgoblin.ariadne.com (8.14.7/8.14.7/Submit) id sABFlPJt007784; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 10:47:25 -0500 Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2014 10:47:25 -0500 Message-Id: <201411111547.sABFlPJt007784@hobgoblin.ariadne.com> From: worley@ariadne.com (Dale R. Worley) Sender: worley@ariadne.com (Dale R. Worley) To: "Olle E. Johansson" In-reply-to: <08B87AC6-270F-4CFA-A698-3F3DDA1FA484@edvina.net> (oej@edvina.net) References: <08B87AC6-270F-4CFA-A698-3F3DDA1FA484@edvina.net> DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=comcast.net; s=q20140121; t=1415720851; bh=a0N5mS3Sr2wGeNrYN4uy3Ai/VRDEYOfp0ceSB6pg/2o=; h=Received:Received:Received:Received:Date:Message-Id:From:To: Subject; b=Pyiv2yPbI2pN8dWNgqdODk/MiNf3VuHRp4rIBlCAMWMvcoSD97X6wWq6pSvABzNTw j+9QsnSKGavhips49qKWrgnJUCZ8ZrsCz1WK2L8imZz8ZbH0jxaVKP21XFB4Rc3EIn SiOCgRCkuEKeDMSH2SYezf6rCkFpWqrpVH3wUTFbpVtX4xKbMHlSlqIjKf3mI0WvKm tPkS8+6in1qbA3UXEty8VFxxvo6oPGX4q6/8mxHal+AX4aCPrZ/d5mPYOwnAwg9pDF CYf3ZVc3JCZ9FnhIbb04p84LWDpeh+uD/rlYg19tJuZ2ChPDvVpzI/2DqLfNKyK/JK dGoB3Dah/qbJA== Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dispatch/b_HPIqlevj2XUEeI3pUV8kqhoxE Cc: dispatch@ietf.org Subject: Re: [dispatch] draft-procter-dispatch-outbound-discovery-01 X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2014 15:47:36 -0000 > From: "Olle E. Johansson" > I think this draft should be dispatched to sipcore and dealt with in > that group. +1 Dale From nobody Wed Nov 12 00:04:20 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89EA81A870A for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2014 00:04:19 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.551 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.551 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_SE=0.35, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EcTmGV5akokF for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2014 00:04:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp7.webway.se (smtp7.webway.se [IPv6:2a02:920:212e::205]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28DA91A6FE2 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2014 00:04:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.8.100] (2.69.156.56.mobile.tre.se [2.69.156.56]) by smtp7.webway.se (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 1A23493C2A3; Wed, 12 Nov 2014 08:03:50 +0000 (UTC) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) From: "Olle E. Johansson" In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 09:04:15 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <08B87AC6-270F-4CFA-A698-3F3DDA1FA484@edvina.net> To: Michael Procter X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dispatch/mORR8AfZNqwWkuXwUBFy3T2OU9U Cc: "dispatch@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [dispatch] draft-procter-dispatch-outbound-discovery-01 X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 08:04:19 -0000 On 11 Nov 2014, at 08:22, Michael Procter = wrote: > Hi Olle, >=20 > Sorry for the delay in responding. Comments inline: >=20 > On 9 November 2014 17:41, Olle E. Johansson wrote: >> If I just have one SRV name, I don't see how I can make this happen. = With two SRV names, it >> can happen - but we can have a need for more. SIP outbounds says that = we need a minimum >> of two flows. >=20 > I don't know exactly what you mean here. Do you mean two (or more) > targets for a particular SRV answer? If so, that is exactly how the > draft currently operates. If you mean that you want to perform two > (or more) SRV queries for different names, then that is indeed not > addressed by the current draft. As stated in a separate thread, I want to make sure that UAs select from = two different SRV entries in order to be able to make sure a UA doesn't end = up with two flows to the same datacenter or the same server, just different = ports. >=20 >> I think we may need a NAPTR solution that ends up with a set of SRV = names that you pick >> one each from. All SRV lists have their own failover rules that I as = a manager of my service >> set up and publish to make sure that UAs have connections to = different networks/servers/ >> datacenters or planets. >=20 > *If* we need a NAPTR-based solution, I would prefer it to resolve to a > set of URIs which can be used as the outbound-proxy-set, rather than a > set of SRV records. =20 The URIs will be resolved to SRV anyway, right.=20 > We could define an RFC4848-based lookup to > simplify it, but I don't know if a NAPTR-based approach would get > implemented by UA vendors. We don't know if anything will be implemented by UA vendors and = developers, we can only try to push them forward. If the upside is good enough, I think there will be requirements from customers to support this.=20 It's either ONE naptr, that can be in the SIP domain, so we don't need another configuration item. Or it can be two SRV names which means we need to modify provisioning of the phones. There will be work regardless of solution. >=20 > In the -00 version of my draft, there was a section listing a couple > of alternative approaches. Section 5.1 in particular might be another > way to meet your use-case. There are other variations that might be > considered too (e.g. return a 305 with a list of proxies?) but the > basic approach is to use SIP. I removed this section as nobody > expressed any interest in anything other than the SRV-based approach! For me DNS-based control is the natural way to go, which is why I focused on that... :-) >=20 > In a later mail, you discuss the possibility of starting from DHCP > options. That sounds like it wouldn't meet my use-cases, but might be > more appropriately addressed by the config-framework. II was just brainstorming based on Keiths feedback. Using that kind of discovery of outbound servers may be out of scope for this document. /O= From nobody Fri Nov 14 07:02:21 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5475C1A1A51 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 07:02:13 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gKHGOaOIEyd1 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 07:02:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wg0-x231.google.com (mail-wg0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c00::231]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 53F321A0107 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 07:02:07 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wg0-f49.google.com with SMTP id x13so19636451wgg.8 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 07:02:06 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=YEMiLZRV6BgGe3XZbgew3x9MLca9leAl11f7EbPzH5E=; b=edJMbAc+cL/CJ24+U5pM6HN2/ieXJx2EctQ24Cd/2rtfzgJhYkCO21UeL/bzAYpgNy /Pg19AppNZHM8/Aa5GUwyTugwf9wk3Ytx9N2hdggHjg85xw00nOyk9/+X3jmbVlq03NU 2yuNAVZ7QQNv6XKkj4oNjEXS10IqldibWgsxk1tbanNiIAl1DWI0jJw5JoQIXyHASSlC 10olnJ6lj3Il8DFiPnFw0HE8FJONwIuLIBD6L45JXBqzf/vLNnM2ihqD1NL19M+9D8WM 0BNnB9SmJNH0rx7WZuU4AQclYjgwd+x+QunWrrtjzv3m/RIKU7vUFXCNG4wdw/5G2Dyf /FDA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.194.243.106 with SMTP id wx10mr14322521wjc.97.1415977326009; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 07:02:06 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.194.66.130 with HTTP; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 07:02:05 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <08B87AC6-270F-4CFA-A698-3F3DDA1FA484@edvina.net> Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 15:02:05 +0000 Message-ID: From: Michael Procter To: "Olle E. Johansson" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dispatch/mJn5e8tyJfUNtFw3qXp-0-F75c0 Cc: "dispatch@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [dispatch] draft-procter-dispatch-outbound-discovery-01 X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 15:02:13 -0000 Hi Olle, On 12 November 2014 08:04, Olle E. Johansson wrote: >>> I think we may need a NAPTR solution that ends up with a set of SRV names that you pick >>> one each from. All SRV lists have their own failover rules that I as a manager of my service >>> set up and publish to make sure that UAs have connections to different networks/servers/ >>> datacenters or planets. >> >> *If* we need a NAPTR-based solution, I would prefer it to resolve to a >> set of URIs which can be used as the outbound-proxy-set, rather than a >> set of SRV records. > The URIs will be resolved to SRV anyway, right. I've been thinking about this approach a little more, and I am starting to think you might be right! To see what it would look like, I have just written a short draft (draft-procter-dispatch-outbound-unaptr-00), and it is shorter and cleaner to specify. The implementation doesn't look very hard either, which is nice. Let me know what you think. As soon as the chairs agree to dispatch it to sipcore, we can continue to pore over the details there and see which approach seems to be the best fit. Michael From nobody Fri Nov 14 15:06:57 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A1301A1A99 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 15:06:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.678 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.678 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AG6bToe4tekk for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 15:06:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qc0-f170.google.com (mail-qc0-f170.google.com [209.85.216.170]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 97C0F1A1B6F for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 15:06:52 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qc0-f170.google.com with SMTP id l6so13747671qcy.29 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 15:06:51 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=ZGbGxTGL+k/Z3poiuE44krmUOK0x6FdhJXFoKkSmi58=; b=Ap61iPls9JSJgpw5VUi9sB5ozqXPuAVv9Z0mdn0ipPkWCv0PQ0O2ae7/iJQcKsmB56 GyrnGMKc1uJ4CEufVIexqJl7eOGXIVQ1Na5i8lD7uKw3/fTccnzgPec1osEa1/IC4TAi q6seoxt8sAJ/P8SkEIQRqz86HFTFLZOvn5RB1ddl5nI5m8xhRqoaQriq8jyq5Ctm1pRF i8SmptySV/5kov8AlCpm9LgfEDZMRh+o672RnFp+YtPj2K1Hp9XWAyporGOpwzQGhF5+ 4M3v9d5ZPucp2emdkRKVRC/kFaKMVvAXBgJmaQXbnElohkAvU/AtJoOFxsPM3WC+4J33 rVYg== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkraxtB78wiF4aiN2pZV5Mc1ABNU4+rLxmo9Fx9Ff7G8oNwG0XXmrY1z7axjXvHYEEdfYb1 X-Received: by 10.224.4.197 with SMTP id 5mr15296881qas.74.1416006411847; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 15:06:51 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.96.49.100 with HTTP; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 15:06:31 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <949EF20990823C4C85C18D59AA11AD8B27664A@FR712WXCHMBA11.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> References: <08B87AC6-270F-4CFA-A698-3F3DDA1FA484@edvina.net> <949EF20990823C4C85C18D59AA11AD8B2748F8@FR712WXCHMBA11.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> <2F63DF47-A4B0-4834-8B3B-81AB3EBD2B25@edvina.net> <949EF20990823C4C85C18D59AA11AD8B27664A@FR712WXCHMBA11.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> From: =?UTF-8?Q?I=C3=B1aki_Baz_Castillo?= Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2014 00:06:31 +0100 Message-ID: To: "DRAGE, Keith (Keith)" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dispatch/GisP38JHmUvn30gBt3_dt7UpR_k Cc: "dispatch@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [dispatch] draft-procter-dispatch-outbound-discovery-01 X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 23:06:54 -0000 2014-11-10 18:06 GMT+01:00 DRAGE, Keith (Keith) : > "For me, it's important that the SIP outbound proxys used are in differen= t networks." > > To me that implies two separate network operators. I'm sorry but, why should we assume "operators world" at all? May we please assume "just pure Internet" instead of operators and their "roaming business" relationship? --=20 I=C3=B1aki Baz Castillo From nobody Fri Nov 14 15:15:42 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FC7B1AD390 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 15:15:32 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.495 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.495 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3I4MRPJrCxrZ for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 15:15:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from email1.corp.yaanatech.com (webmail10.yaanatech.com [63.128.177.10]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DE3DF1AD37E for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 15:15:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from SC9-EX2K10MB1.corp.yaanatech.com ([fe80::149d:c2e1:8065:2a47]) by ex2k10hub1.corp.yaanatech.com ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0123.003; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 15:14:35 -0800 From: Michael Hammer To: "ibc@aliax.net" , "keith.drage@alcatel-lucent.com" Thread-Topic: [dispatch] draft-procter-dispatch-outbound-discovery-01 Thread-Index: AQHP/ERhKVG54vlidEq5qWETLpVqhJxZGMGAgAERCACAAHULgIAGrgCA//97//A= Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 23:14:34 +0000 Message-ID: <00C069FD01E0324C9FFCADF539701DB3BBFF4A5F@sc9-ex2k10mb1.corp.yaanatech.com> References: <08B87AC6-270F-4CFA-A698-3F3DDA1FA484@edvina.net> <949EF20990823C4C85C18D59AA11AD8B2748F8@FR712WXCHMBA11.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> <2F63DF47-A4B0-4834-8B3B-81AB3EBD2B25@edvina.net> <949EF20990823C4C85C18D59AA11AD8B27664A@FR712WXCHMBA11.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.17.100.214] Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=SHA1; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_061D_01D00036.D79255B0" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dispatch/Eg6btWEcgIg_-Nb62dJhlcQJ9ts Cc: "dispatch@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [dispatch] draft-procter-dispatch-outbound-discovery-01 X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 23:15:32 -0000 ------=_NextPart_000_061D_01D00036.D79255B0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ummm... Why ignore the biggest users of the IETF specifications? ________________________________ Michael Hammer Principal Engineer michael.hammer@yaanatech.com Mobile: +1 408 202 9291 542 Gibraltar Drive Milpitas, CA 95035 USA www.yaanatech.com -----Original Message----- From: dispatch [mailto:dispatch-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of = I=C3=B1aki Baz Castillo Sent: Friday, November 14, 2014 6:07 PM To: DRAGE, Keith (Keith) Cc: dispatch@ietf.org Subject: Re: [dispatch] draft-procter-dispatch-outbound-discovery-01 2014-11-10 18:06 GMT+01:00 DRAGE, Keith (Keith) : > "For me, it's important that the SIP outbound proxys used are in = different networks." > > To me that implies two separate network operators. I'm sorry but, why should we assume "operators world" at all? May we = please assume "just pure Internet" instead of operators and their = "roaming business" relationship? -- I=C3=B1aki Baz Castillo _______________________________________________ dispatch mailing list dispatch@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dispatch ------=_NextPart_000_061D_01D00036.D79255B0 Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIR8DCCBBkw ggMBAhBhcMtJjF+YRSnnsKbZUFt6MA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBBQUAMIHKMQswCQYDVQQGEwJVUzEXMBUG A1UEChMOVmVyaVNpZ24sIEluYy4xHzAdBgNVBAsTFlZlcmlTaWduIFRydXN0IE5ldHdvcmsxOjA4 BgNVBAsTMShjKSAxOTk5IFZlcmlTaWduLCBJbmMuIC0gRm9yIGF1dGhvcml6ZWQgdXNlIG9ubHkx RTBDBgNVBAMTPFZlcmlTaWduIENsYXNzIDIgUHVibGljIFByaW1hcnkgQ2VydGlmaWNhdGlvbiBB dXRob3JpdHkgLSBHMzAeFw05OTEwMDEwMDAwMDBaFw0zNjA3MTYyMzU5NTlaMIHKMQswCQYDVQQG 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tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eqDJMwgldiYy for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 15:27:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qg0-f50.google.com (mail-qg0-f50.google.com [209.85.192.50]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7AF011AD3CB for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 15:27:26 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qg0-f50.google.com with SMTP id e89so1910637qgf.9 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 15:27:25 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=q7vCRDxAjVaX5j1t83UwB3FM185kMzXnceeuIdoSpE8=; b=IgRW17IV+dgw1Wr5j3pSUDjCozSw8clwzPNc8dUrEEvmhmMVc+DSNbQxa1gIcRSC4q F2HKdhC9SJXzaPCPXdZxewDNH47BDMgk4kB760/43FwAE+bspPzpYVjPxSqGL4hGS8Kn ZFOqqE7jzvY/XiBLlTFbcC97wq1VpO9xOQbANmU/1q+16cw0W+rZptHbG3Nme5vEfI7k C+VP1Oo0hTOPYpq5NfYaiPmOzhg8/whQEzwsjbAAo8ACW0VtitUeif2qrGyzsEgnNJ1I 7SBQORvwW140H7xG5KBl+L/5DjUL5+UPKjrR+ODyKtdxgn3S6H0kdJsVH9Q13qrXtkW2 74pQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQl+vHbZddb4KkrPZO8hn8kQ3MJuSoNsBzAahuMqNtvy4BZdhbUpQnjAdm3NIq1yug5lBCtw X-Received: by 10.140.105.164 with SMTP id c33mr14684460qgf.11.1416007645739; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 15:27:25 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.96.49.100 with HTTP; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 15:27:05 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <00C069FD01E0324C9FFCADF539701DB3BBFF4A5F@sc9-ex2k10mb1.corp.yaanatech.com> References: <08B87AC6-270F-4CFA-A698-3F3DDA1FA484@edvina.net> <949EF20990823C4C85C18D59AA11AD8B2748F8@FR712WXCHMBA11.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> <2F63DF47-A4B0-4834-8B3B-81AB3EBD2B25@edvina.net> <949EF20990823C4C85C18D59AA11AD8B27664A@FR712WXCHMBA11.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> <00C069FD01E0324C9FFCADF539701DB3BBFF4A5F@sc9-ex2k10mb1.corp.yaanatech.com> From: =?UTF-8?Q?I=C3=B1aki_Baz_Castillo?= Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2014 00:27:05 +0100 Message-ID: To: Michael Hammer Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dispatch/D0mvEnjihzGuuindJjL85soBI7o Cc: "dispatch@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [dispatch] draft-procter-dispatch-outbound-discovery-01 X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 23:27:27 -0000 2014-11-15 0:14 GMT+01:00 Michael Hammer : > Ummm... > > Why ignore the biggest users of the IETF specifications? Because unfortunately that (the telco/operators pollution and specs like SIMPLE) are the reason why nobody in the Internet wants SIP stuff at all, and instead of thinking in the real Internet usage we are stuck into walled gardens and no-added-value "telephony" poor quality audio calls. And because IETF means "Internet Engineering Task Force" and AFAIK "Internet !=3D Walled Gardens". --=20 I=C3=B1aki Baz Castillo From nobody Fri Nov 14 15:35:15 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FB8F1AD3E2 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 15:35:13 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.495 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.495 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yvsDryRfThvX for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 15:35:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from email1.corp.yaanatech.com (webmail10.yaanatech.com [63.128.177.10]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DCA3D1AD3DE for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 15:35:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from SC9-EX2K10MB1.corp.yaanatech.com ([fe80::149d:c2e1:8065:2a47]) by ex2k10hub1.corp.yaanatech.com ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0123.003; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 15:34:34 -0800 From: Michael Hammer To: "ibc@aliax.net" Thread-Topic: [dispatch] draft-procter-dispatch-outbound-discovery-01 Thread-Index: AQHP/ERhKVG54vlidEq5qWETLpVqhJxZGMGAgAERCACAAHULgIAGrgCA//97//CAAInAgP//e8Uw Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 23:34:34 +0000 Message-ID: <00C069FD01E0324C9FFCADF539701DB3BBFF4BC2@sc9-ex2k10mb1.corp.yaanatech.com> References: <08B87AC6-270F-4CFA-A698-3F3DDA1FA484@edvina.net> <949EF20990823C4C85C18D59AA11AD8B2748F8@FR712WXCHMBA11.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> <2F63DF47-A4B0-4834-8B3B-81AB3EBD2B25@edvina.net> <949EF20990823C4C85C18D59AA11AD8B27664A@FR712WXCHMBA11.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> <00C069FD01E0324C9FFCADF539701DB3BBFF4A5F@sc9-ex2k10mb1.corp.yaanatech.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.17.100.214] Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=SHA1; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0699_01D00039.A2C093D0" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dispatch/3_j3R5zC7y2To4xOOGwVn0DGT8k Cc: "dispatch@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [dispatch] draft-procter-dispatch-outbound-discovery-01 X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 23:35:13 -0000 ------=_NextPart_000_0699_01D00039.A2C093D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Well, pretty much all networks have walls. BTW, did you read the IAB "stop bashing service providers" memo? ________________________________ Michael Hammer Principal Engineer michael.hammer@yaanatech.com Mobile: +1 408 202 9291 542 Gibraltar Drive Milpitas, CA 95035 USA www.yaanatech.com -----Original Message----- From: I=C3=B1aki Baz Castillo [mailto:ibc@aliax.net]=20 Sent: Friday, November 14, 2014 6:27 PM To: Michael Hammer Cc: keith.drage@alcatel-lucent.com; dispatch@ietf.org Subject: Re: [dispatch] draft-procter-dispatch-outbound-discovery-01 2014-11-15 0:14 GMT+01:00 Michael Hammer : > Ummm... > > Why ignore the biggest users of the IETF specifications? Because unfortunately that (the telco/operators pollution and specs like = SIMPLE) are the reason why nobody in the Internet wants SIP stuff at = all, and instead of thinking in the real Internet usage we are stuck = into walled gardens and no-added-value "telephony" poor quality audio = calls. And because IETF means "Internet Engineering Task Force" and AFAIK = "Internet !=3D Walled Gardens". -- I=C3=B1aki Baz Castillo ------=_NextPart_000_0699_01D00039.A2C093D0 Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIR8DCCBBkw ggMBAhBhcMtJjF+YRSnnsKbZUFt6MA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBBQUAMIHKMQswCQYDVQQGEwJVUzEXMBUG A1UEChMOVmVyaVNpZ24sIEluYy4xHzAdBgNVBAsTFlZlcmlTaWduIFRydXN0IE5ldHdvcmsxOjA4 BgNVBAsTMShjKSAxOTk5IFZlcmlTaWduLCBJbmMuIC0gRm9yIGF1dGhvcml6ZWQgdXNlIG9ubHkx RTBDBgNVBAMTPFZlcmlTaWduIENsYXNzIDIgUHVibGljIFByaW1hcnkgQ2VydGlmaWNhdGlvbiBB dXRob3JpdHkgLSBHMzAeFw05OTEwMDEwMDAwMDBaFw0zNjA3MTYyMzU5NTlaMIHKMQswCQYDVQQG EwJVUzEXMBUGA1UEChMOVmVyaVNpZ24sIEluYy4xHzAdBgNVBAsTFlZlcmlTaWduIFRydXN0IE5l dHdvcmsxOjA4BgNVBAsTMShjKSAxOTk5IFZlcmlTaWduLCBJbmMuIC0gRm9yIGF1dGhvcml6ZWQg 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([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id T_iIddd91_En for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 15:44:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qc0-f176.google.com (mail-qc0-f176.google.com [209.85.216.176]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 02EBF1A88B6 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 15:44:21 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qc0-f176.google.com with SMTP id x3so13735067qcv.35 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 15:44:21 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=cFk/iqKzjUhXvImJrULtwgiQRZpLqCXmu6+OCLvauCI=; b=RUNPywnky1dLSg6XQkmEPH66wVdoIcS3goayWkyvjL6ZUG6jO2XiY+sZB55aH4iWPc iTwSv3M3/4UKuVZOz1Ru8ebSalCFCQnsD/rtWUxUhe50N2HPeTl1BbyksRDu+HikHSYG 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<00C069FD01E0324C9FFCADF539701DB3BBFF4BC2@sc9-ex2k10mb1.corp.yaanatech.com> From: =?UTF-8?Q?I=C3=B1aki_Baz_Castillo?= Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2014 00:44:00 +0100 Message-ID: To: Michael Hammer Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dispatch/YZrQ0nBDkKYR9sh2b0SKpXrdS3A Cc: "dispatch@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [dispatch] draft-procter-dispatch-outbound-discovery-01 X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 23:44:23 -0000 2014-11-15 0:34 GMT+01:00 Michael Hammer : > Well, pretty much all networks have walls. AFAIK I don't have to pay more for accessing a website in San Francisco than in my city or country. > BTW, did you read the IAB "stop bashing service providers" memo? No, and I don't find it. Anyhow, maybe you mean "stop bashing old-fashion telephony providers (those who still charge for items such as call setup) and provide access to the network (Internet) in which the real service providers are placed". --=20 I=C3=B1aki Baz Castillo From nobody Fri Nov 14 18:06:08 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1A8F1A036B for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 18:05:59 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7.194 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.194 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4W3vn3uH-G5f for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 18:05:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp-fr.alcatel-lucent.com (fr-hpgre-esg-01.alcatel-lucent.com [135.245.210.22]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CC36D1A0385 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 18:05:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from fr711usmtp1.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (unknown [135.239.2.122]) by Websense Email Security Gateway with ESMTPS id 263CB89FC6FD9; Sat, 15 Nov 2014 02:05:51 +0000 (GMT) Received: from FR711WXCHHUB02.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (fr711wxchhub02.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com [135.239.2.112]) by fr711usmtp1.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (GMO) with ESMTP id sAF25oEn000623 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Sat, 15 Nov 2014 03:05:50 +0100 Received: from FR712WXCHMBA11.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com ([169.254.7.25]) by FR711WXCHHUB02.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com ([135.239.2.112]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Sat, 15 Nov 2014 03:05:50 +0100 From: "DRAGE, Keith (Keith)" To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?I=F1aki_Baz_Castillo?= Thread-Topic: [dispatch] draft-procter-dispatch-outbound-discovery-01 Thread-Index: AQHQAF+xlwBAklRmjEGExtUB0K9AAJxg7vKQ Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2014 02:05:49 +0000 Message-ID: <949EF20990823C4C85C18D59AA11AD8B27BAE3@FR712WXCHMBA11.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> References: <08B87AC6-270F-4CFA-A698-3F3DDA1FA484@edvina.net> <949EF20990823C4C85C18D59AA11AD8B2748F8@FR712WXCHMBA11.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> <2F63DF47-A4B0-4834-8B3B-81AB3EBD2B25@edvina.net> <949EF20990823C4C85C18D59AA11AD8B27664A@FR712WXCHMBA11.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [135.239.27.41] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dispatch/gy1_GFKle-1XSUoizzANK-kGohk Cc: "dispatch@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [dispatch] draft-procter-dispatch-outbound-discovery-01 X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2014 02:06:03 -0000 By all means use whatever terminology you like. When the socialist revolution ultimately comes you may well end up being it= s president, but until then, some of us have to work on real world cost mod= els, because ultimately, they pay our wages. Regards Keith=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: I=F1aki Baz Castillo [mailto:ibc@aliax.net]=20 > Sent: 14 November 2014 23:07 > To: DRAGE, Keith (Keith) > Cc: Olle E. Johansson; dispatch@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [dispatch] draft-procter-dispatch-outbound-discovery-01 >=20 > 2014-11-10 18:06 GMT+01:00 DRAGE, Keith (Keith) > : > > "For me, it's important that the SIP outbound proxys used=20 > are in different networks." > > > > To me that implies two separate network operators. >=20 > I'm sorry but, why should we assume "operators world" at all?=20 > May we please assume "just pure Internet" instead of=20 > operators and their "roaming business" relationship? >=20 >=20 > -- > I=F1aki Baz Castillo > > = From nobody Sat Nov 15 00:00:01 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96F471A1B58 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 23:59:59 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.494 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.494 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ijABbska_I2C for ; 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Sat, 15 Nov 2014 02:59:49 -0500 Received: from mlpi408.sfdc.sbc.com (mlpi408.sfdc.sbc.com [130.9.128.240]) by alpi155.enaf.aldc.att.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id sAF7xgHi018508 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Sat, 15 Nov 2014 02:59:44 -0500 Received: from MISOUT7MSGHUBAD.ITServices.sbc.com (MISOUT7MSGHUBAD.itservices.sbc.com [130.9.129.148]) by mlpi408.sfdc.sbc.com (RSA Interceptor); Sat, 15 Nov 2014 07:59:22 GMT Received: from MISOUT7MSGUSRDB.ITServices.sbc.com ([169.254.2.35]) by MISOUT7MSGHUBAD.ITServices.sbc.com ([130.9.129.148]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Sat, 15 Nov 2014 02:59:22 -0500 From: "DOLLY, MARTIN C" To: =?utf-8?B?ScOxYWtpIEJheiBDYXN0aWxsbw==?= , Michael Hammer Thread-Topic: [dispatch] draft-procter-dispatch-outbound-discovery-01 Thread-Index: AdAAqbU/2BEp5Qf4R9CVpSmLYqRo4Q== Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2014 07:59:22 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [135.70.245.22] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-RSA-Inspected: yes X-RSA-Classifications: public X-AnalysisOut: [v=2.0 cv=Fq2yCRXq c=1 sm=1 a=dhB6nF3YHL5t/Ixux6cINA==:17 a] X-AnalysisOut: [=THeCyg9T0iYA:10 a=BLceEmwcHowA:10 a=IkcTkHD0fZMA:10 a=zQP] X-AnalysisOut: [7CpKOAAAA:8 a=XIqpo32RAAAA:8 a=48vgC7mUAAAA:8 a=scBmumm3AA] X-AnalysisOut: [AA:8 a=zja9kt98AAAA:8 a=HNlTbjTCW-0wOncgm7cA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut] X-AnalysisOut: [3YA:10 a=qM39cor4HRgA:10] X-Spam: [F=0.2000000000; CM=0.500; S=0.200(2014051901)] X-MAIL-FROM: X-SOURCE-IP: [144.160.229.24] Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dispatch/BGuAETSidgXpKfWfiJDElzsZxZA Cc: "dispatch@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [dispatch] draft-procter-dispatch-outbound-discovery-01 X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2014 07:59:59 -0000 R3JlZXRpbmdzLA0KDQpUaGUgbWFqb3JpdHkgb2YgU0lQIGRlcGxveW1lbnRzLCBtZWFzdXJlZCBp biBTSVAgZW5kIHBvaW50cywgYXJlIGF0dGFjaGVkIHRvIG1hbmFnZWQgKG9wZXJhdG9yKSBjYXJy aWVyIG5ldHdvcmtzLCBvdXRib3VuZC1kaXNjb3ZlcnkgY2Fubm90IGlnbm9yZSB0aGF0IHNlZ21l bnQgb2YgdGhlIHVzZXIgY29tbXVuaXR5Lg0KDQpQbGVhc2UgZXhwbGFpbiB0byBtZSBob3cgdGhl ICJvcGVuIGludGVybmV0IiB1c2UgY2FzZSBpcyBiZWluZyBpZ25vcmVkLiANCg0KVGhhbmsgeW91 LA0KDQpNYXJ0aW4gRG9sbHkNCkxlYWQgTWVtYmVyIFRlY2huaWNhbCBTdGFmZg0KQ29yZSAmIEdv dmVybm1lbnQvUmVndWxhdG9yeSBTdGFuZGFyZHMNCkFUJlQgU3RhbmRhcmRzIGFuZCBJbmR1c3Ry eSBBbGxpYW5jZXMNCm1kMzEzNUBhdHQuY29tDQorMS02MDktOTAzLTMzNjANCg0KDQotLS0tLU9y aWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLQ0KRnJvbTogZGlzcGF0Y2ggW21haWx0bzpkaXNwYXRjaC1ib3Vu Y2VzQGlldGYub3JnXSBPbiBCZWhhbGYgT2YgScOxYWtpIEJheiBDYXN0aWxsbw0KU2VudDogRnJp ZGF5LCBOb3ZlbWJlciAxNCwgMjAxNCA2OjQ0IFBNDQpUbzogTWljaGFlbCBIYW1tZXINCkNjOiBk aXNwYXRjaEBpZXRmLm9yZw0KU3ViamVjdDogUmU6IFtkaXNwYXRjaF0gZHJhZnQtcHJvY3Rlci1k aXNwYXRjaC1vdXRib3VuZC1kaXNjb3ZlcnktMDENCg0KMjAxNC0xMS0xNSAwOjM0IEdNVCswMTow MCBNaWNoYWVsIEhhbW1lciA8bWljaGFlbC5oYW1tZXJAeWFhbmF0ZWNoLmNvbT46DQo+IFdlbGws IHByZXR0eSBtdWNoIGFsbCBuZXR3b3JrcyBoYXZlIHdhbGxzLg0KDQpBRkFJSyBJIGRvbid0IGhh dmUgdG8gcGF5IG1vcmUgZm9yIGFjY2Vzc2luZyBhIHdlYnNpdGUgaW4gU2FuDQpGcmFuY2lzY28g dGhhbiBpbiBteSBjaXR5IG9yIGNvdW50cnkuDQoNCg0KPiBCVFcsIGRpZCB5b3UgcmVhZCB0aGUg SUFCICJzdG9wIGJhc2hpbmcgc2VydmljZSBwcm92aWRlcnMiIG1lbW8/DQoNCk5vLCBhbmQgSSBk b24ndCBmaW5kIGl0LiBBbnlob3csIG1heWJlIHlvdSBtZWFuICJzdG9wIGJhc2hpbmcNCm9sZC1m YXNoaW9uIHRlbGVwaG9ueSBwcm92aWRlcnMgKHRob3NlIHdobyBzdGlsbCBjaGFyZ2UgZm9yIGl0 ZW1zIHN1Y2gNCmFzIGNhbGwgc2V0dXApIGFuZCBwcm92aWRlIGFjY2VzcyB0byB0aGUgbmV0d29y ayAoSW50ZXJuZXQpIGluIHdoaWNoDQp0aGUgcmVhbCBzZXJ2aWNlIHByb3ZpZGVycyBhcmUgcGxh Y2VkIi4NCg0KDQotLSANCknDsWFraSBCYXogQ2FzdGlsbG8NCjxpYmNAYWxpYXgubmV0Pg0KDQpf X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KZGlzcGF0Y2gg bWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQpkaXNwYXRjaEBpZXRmLm9yZw0KaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFp bG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9kaXNwYXRjaA0K From nobody Sun Nov 16 12:06:22 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 798AF1A1ACA for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2014 12:06:09 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.551 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.551 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_SE=0.35, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6wxFrKl8Qnmr for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2014 12:06:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp7.webway.se (smtp7.webway.se [IPv6:2a02:920:212e::205]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5E2C1A1ADB for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2014 12:06:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.40.15] (h87-96-134-129.dynamic.se.alltele.net [87.96.134.129]) by smtp7.webway.se (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 74D0A93C1AF; Sun, 16 Nov 2014 20:05:31 +0000 (UTC) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) From: "Olle E. Johansson" In-Reply-To: Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2014 21:06:00 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <08B87AC6-270F-4CFA-A698-3F3DDA1FA484@edvina.net> To: Michael Procter X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dispatch/2vUbXgwqSM9BYdzWfiEeB9PGzjI Cc: "dispatch@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [dispatch] draft-procter-dispatch-outbound-discovery-01 X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2014 20:06:09 -0000 On 14 Nov 2014, at 16:02, Michael Procter = wrote: > Hi Olle, >=20 > On 12 November 2014 08:04, Olle E. Johansson wrote: >>>> I think we may need a NAPTR solution that ends up with a set of SRV = names that you pick >>>> one each from. All SRV lists have their own failover rules that I = as a manager of my service >>>> set up and publish to make sure that UAs have connections to = different networks/servers/ >>>> datacenters or planets. >>>=20 >>> *If* we need a NAPTR-based solution, I would prefer it to resolve to = a >>> set of URIs which can be used as the outbound-proxy-set, rather than = a >>> set of SRV records. >> The URIs will be resolved to SRV anyway, right. >=20 > I've been thinking about this approach a little more, and I am > starting to think you might be right! To see what it would look like, > I have just written a short draft > (draft-procter-dispatch-outbound-unaptr-00), and it is shorter and > cleaner to specify. The implementation doesn't look very hard either, > which is nice. Let me know what you think. I think it's good. In my view, the names in the first u-NAPTR lookup needs to be DNS names, not SIP uris. These should be used for RFC 3263 lookup in order to make it simple. By doing that, I can setup outbound proxys for TLS, TCP and UDP and put them in the order I want. If there are no NAPTR records, we go directly to SRV for that name. Thank you for the acknowledgement, but please check the spelling of my name :-) Cheers, /O= From nobody Sun Nov 16 12:07:39 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D70A81A1AE3 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2014 12:07:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.551 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.551 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_SE=0.35, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id isqJ22TgNuSb for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2014 12:07:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp7.webway.se (smtp7.webway.se [IPv6:2a02:920:212e::205]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 392A41A1AAF for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2014 12:07:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.40.15] (h87-96-134-129.dynamic.se.alltele.net [87.96.134.129]) by smtp7.webway.se (Postfix) with ESMTPA id D3BB493C1AF; Sun, 16 Nov 2014 20:06:38 +0000 (UTC) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) From: "Olle E. Johansson" In-Reply-To: Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2014 21:07:11 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <0C68A908-672E-4B42-95B9-49B5ADCECCFE@edvina.net> References: To: "DOLLY, MARTIN C" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dispatch/4NAse_RLJOO97kkCxmDPCuoL2sk Cc: "dispatch@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [dispatch] draft-procter-dispatch-outbound-discovery-01 X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2014 20:07:17 -0000 I think discussion is way out of scope for this draft. Which type of = organization that uses the outbound discovery is not part of the document, it was only part of a comment. /O On 15 Nov 2014, at 08:59, DOLLY, MARTIN C wrote: > Greetings, >=20 > The majority of SIP deployments, measured in SIP end points, are = attached to managed (operator) carrier networks, outbound-discovery = cannot ignore that segment of the user community. >=20 > Please explain to me how the "open internet" use case is being = ignored.=20 >=20 > Thank you, >=20 > Martin Dolly > Lead Member Technical Staff > Core & Government/Regulatory Standards > AT&T Standards and Industry Alliances > md3135@att.com > +1-609-903-3360 >=20 >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: dispatch [mailto:dispatch-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of I=F1aki = Baz Castillo > Sent: Friday, November 14, 2014 6:44 PM > To: Michael Hammer > Cc: dispatch@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [dispatch] draft-procter-dispatch-outbound-discovery-01 >=20 > 2014-11-15 0:34 GMT+01:00 Michael Hammer = : >> Well, pretty much all networks have walls. >=20 > AFAIK I don't have to pay more for accessing a website in San > Francisco than in my city or country. >=20 >=20 >> BTW, did you read the IAB "stop bashing service providers" memo? >=20 > No, and I don't find it. Anyhow, maybe you mean "stop bashing > old-fashion telephony providers (those who still charge for items such > as call setup) and provide access to the network (Internet) in which > the real service providers are placed". >=20 >=20 > --=20 > I=F1aki Baz Castillo > >=20 > _______________________________________________ > dispatch mailing list > dispatch@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dispatch > _______________________________________________ > dispatch mailing list > dispatch@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dispatch From nobody Sun Nov 16 16:44:04 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 208471A036F for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2014 16:44:03 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.678 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.678 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3YSQ9dsYOjTp for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2014 16:44:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qa0-f45.google.com (mail-qa0-f45.google.com [209.85.216.45]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7ED101A0264 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2014 16:44:01 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qa0-f45.google.com with SMTP id x12so372054qac.4 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2014 16:44:00 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=ToYDS65Ajc2zJqufrDLVRdTGhF2uu4EtFmXcJTaHlWM=; b=TgFrwEBz16DleaG/JeAD+plk50i5N3/zxFI67zy927Fh8ZeZS6fC0XGJ8K0/hu4GFd w0uf9V3BSPm0J6lwCl5KaqnsTEZpnvmkztFtlfEiwvMiwqlAdd48/9g2CVfwDlsXJ485 I7sqSWd388kMw2GqYPjWjfoz5QthwM1564aWz8hZHrq5QICb6VoUJoU5DKBNfaw/XBWU hVrvj55NPA7YScwVnSFHJV7kpU453TLLNj44b5VfFIKV0R2ciHoyQPvxYgro4z6Hgjin FmTPq3y0u4tQzjvDln9NShOlncs+h+llziU+OnB3uaSxwbr7ZRMudyrGOFYU0vhsq0me YzEA== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmQQw67LsJG0kDWtJl0eugoDLAo1GQ4qntxUx2ZTGlB5cwwSVD7NaxxULTck4H7GYPSSlYQ X-Received: by 10.224.4.197 with SMTP id 5mr30818842qas.74.1416185040738; Sun, 16 Nov 2014 16:44:00 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.96.144.10 with HTTP; Sun, 16 Nov 2014 16:43:40 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: From: =?UTF-8?Q?I=C3=B1aki_Baz_Castillo?= Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2014 01:43:40 +0100 Message-ID: To: "DOLLY, MARTIN C" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dispatch/OL_NblU__05ZvlP_ZuTmiaY15BI Cc: "dispatch@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [dispatch] draft-procter-dispatch-outbound-discovery-01 X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2014 00:44:03 -0000 2014-11-15 8:59 GMT+01:00 DOLLY, MARTIN C : > The majority of SIP deployments, measured in SIP end points, are attached= to managed (operator) carrier networks, outbound-discovery cannot ignore t= hat segment of the user community. Hi, I've implemented both Outbound and GRUU in my environments (pure Internet, no operators/PSTN) and used them for years. If a new addition or feature (like the one being discussed in this thread) comes to Outbound, and given that the "I" in IETF means "Internet" (rather than "IP"), I hope that such a feature is designed with a neutral vision in mind, rather than focusing it on no-Internet networks/users/consumers. It is just that. I'm sorry if I sounded rude. > Please explain to me how the "open internet" use case is being ignored. Well, when I read "To me that implies two separate network operators" I don't think that pure Internet usage is being considered at all. I'd be happy if I was wrong. Regards. --=20 I=C3=B1aki Baz Castillo From nobody Sun Nov 16 16:58:03 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC00E1A1C00 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2014 16:58:01 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.678 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.678 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id asJ-y-fJNJWb for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2014 16:58:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qc0-f173.google.com (mail-qc0-f173.google.com [209.85.216.173]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 850791A1AD0 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2014 16:58:00 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qc0-f173.google.com with SMTP id i17so1371312qcy.32 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2014 16:57:59 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=F2mC4avnjCxBevTgbKWaF/oP5PCm5hQHU8LfK+mQvi4=; b=Es8aA3J7gLXAQ5MlD/lFVr+guCLBTSHOTiWEgRGaML41IFUefo1FPHqqRzsaddBEWX dp7svsHPgLwHJFYwpl7R97B1q5L+qzMk0gbz2T5pdJbq7NCyXOaxc96jOt8xWCrYCmp0 YqiTU361jRpdL0EPWU87oyam1ihrQj18EhprecLu4CL4pJdpQb67HdtNYttOFT/y1Huo FX68ycdtlv2YmXM1HQ9AoP/x5B97DY/brM+AC+5uIaAUKSUR2aa06DtmweQEnH+Il8r3 1KeamgSshm7LCZfD/6e+i9+s28LyeDoYLC1ANuQem2H1vmYF141zTVEFpTG7q3RoCoiu F6lA== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQl630XfnGtmMhOSjQo53aze9nQyzVMHoZuLsDegntukYLVV+S2YWUq86AnK8zaxQLqV7bDK X-Received: by 10.224.4.197 with SMTP id 5mr30900417qas.74.1416185879697; Sun, 16 Nov 2014 16:57:59 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.96.144.10 with HTTP; Sun, 16 Nov 2014 16:57:39 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <0C68A908-672E-4B42-95B9-49B5ADCECCFE@edvina.net> References: <0C68A908-672E-4B42-95B9-49B5ADCECCFE@edvina.net> From: =?UTF-8?Q?I=C3=B1aki_Baz_Castillo?= Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2014 01:57:39 +0100 Message-ID: To: "Olle E. Johansson" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dispatch/HWEPCEM05Og5sC6KY-fks9K_avY Cc: "dispatch@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [dispatch] draft-procter-dispatch-outbound-discovery-01 X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2014 00:58:01 -0000 2014-11-16 21:07 GMT+01:00 Olle E. Johansson : > I think discussion is way out of scope for this draft. Which type of orga= nization that uses the outbound discovery > is not part of the document, it was only part of a comment. If I was a SIP provider around the entire world I would like to provide my users with a common URI(s) so that, by means of the new feature being discussed here, they connect transparently to the Outbound proxy closest to them. NAPTR usage in SIP takes the user's identity domain as input. This is, sip:alice@atlanta.com will query a DNS NAPTR for atlanta.com, and retrieve a list of SRV records. Here there is no room for the provider to select specific SRV records to provide Alice with, so indeed another approach is required. DHCP based solutions are "operator solutions" so I don't like them (because they are not valid for pure Internet users in which the SIP service is not provided by the Internet provider). BTW, which is the aim of this feature? To auto-discover via DNS a list of Outbound proxies for a given configuration domain? or to also provide the "best" Outbound proxy given the geolocation of the user? --=20 I=C3=B1aki Baz Castillo From nobody Sun Nov 16 22:29:48 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A191B1A0127 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2014 22:29:47 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.251 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.251 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_SE=0.35, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yxplUeP2Wwov for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2014 22:29:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp7.webway.se (smtp7.webway.se [IPv6:2a02:920:212e::205]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 564CA1A0120 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2014 22:29:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.40.15] (h87-96-134-129.dynamic.se.alltele.net [87.96.134.129]) by smtp7.webway.se (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 7BE8293C1AF; Mon, 17 Nov 2014 06:29:10 +0000 (UTC) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) From: "Olle E. Johansson" In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2014 07:29:37 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <20872DC1-9423-44D0-9BAF-D0988C7A0D13@edvina.net> References: <0C68A908-672E-4B42-95B9-49B5ADCECCFE@edvina.net> To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?I=F1aki_Baz_Castillo?= X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dispatch/UMPy6h60YZ_BSvnaZuylsRyJ7Z8 Cc: "dispatch@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [dispatch] draft-procter-dispatch-outbound-discovery-01 X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2014 06:29:47 -0000 On 17 Nov 2014, at 01:57, I=F1aki Baz Castillo wrote: > 2014-11-16 21:07 GMT+01:00 Olle E. Johansson : >> I think discussion is way out of scope for this draft. Which type of = organization that uses the outbound discovery >> is not part of the document, it was only part of a comment. >=20 > If I was a SIP provider around the entire world I would like to > provide my users with a common URI(s) so that, by means of the new > feature being discussed here, they connect transparently to the > Outbound proxy closest to them. >=20 > NAPTR usage in SIP takes the user's identity domain as input. This is, > sip:alice@atlanta.com will query a DNS NAPTR for atlanta.com, and > retrieve a list of SRV records. Here there is no room for the provider > to select specific SRV records to provide Alice with, so indeed > another approach is required. >=20 > DHCP based solutions are "operator solutions" so I don't like them > (because they are not valid for pure Internet users in which the SIP > service is not provided by the Internet provider). >=20 >=20 > BTW, which is the aim of this feature? To auto-discover via DNS a list > of Outbound proxies for a given configuration domain? or to also > provide the "best" Outbound proxy given the geolocation of the user? So far geolocation has been out of the scope. =46rom my point of view, the goal is to be able to find a set of SIP Outbound edge proxys based on the users configured SIP domain or the configured outbound proxy name. By using NAPTR + SRV the admin of the service can set up two or more lists of servers that the user should use to find the edge proxys. By having two or more lists the admin can avoid that the user ends up in the same server using two protocols or the same data center. /O= From nobody Sun Nov 16 22:44:08 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C94D41A014F for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2014 22:44:06 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.149 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.149 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_05=-0.5, HELO_EQ_SE=0.35, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VMc5tqdhYae3 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2014 22:44:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp7.webway.se (smtp7.webway.se [IPv6:2a02:920:212e::205]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43FF81A014A for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2014 22:44:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.40.15] (h87-96-134-129.dynamic.se.alltele.net [87.96.134.129]) by smtp7.webway.se (Postfix) with ESMTPA id C09D293C1AF; Mon, 17 Nov 2014 06:43:32 +0000 (UTC) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) From: "Olle E. Johansson" In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2014 07:44:03 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <545C283F-3C6E-4DA0-AE55-3A8ECC38CBC0@edvina.net> References: To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?I=F1aki_Baz_Castillo?= X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dispatch/AHDjfZpf0n767_W00JhEqAwNN9E Cc: "dispatch@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [dispatch] draft-procter-dispatch-outbound-discovery-01 X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2014 06:44:07 -0000 On 17 Nov 2014, at 01:43, I=F1aki Baz Castillo wrote: > Well, when I read "To me that implies two separate network operators" > I don't think that pure Internet usage is being considered at all. I'd > be happy if I was wrong. I think the word "operators" was significant here. The way I parsed = Keith's words was that the discovery of a set of outbound proxys may be = depending not only on the service network (the SIP domain) but also on the network you are connected to. It was important input to me. We have an internet with connected islands that have very broken networks. The work in TRAM has been focusing a lot on solving this, and it has impact on WebRTC as well. There's a draft now discussing whether to prioritize a TURN server provided by the local network or one provided by the application. We may end up in situations like this in regards to locating SIP = outbound servers as well. I think you overreacted this time I=F1aki. It was good = feedback that at least forced me to rethink a bit. We later came to the conclusion that the document Michael is working on focuses on services provided by the entity that hosts the domain. If we = want and see a need to work on network-provided outbound proxys we can start=20= writing another document. /O= From nobody Mon Nov 17 10:27:14 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B1081A8782 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2014 10:27:11 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9YIsz-lZ26qY for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2014 10:27:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from resqmta-ch2-10v.sys.comcast.net (resqmta-ch2-10v.sys.comcast.net [IPv6:2001:558:fe21:29:69:252:207:42]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 26EDF1A8778 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2014 10:27:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from resomta-ch2-17v.sys.comcast.net ([69.252.207.113]) by resqmta-ch2-10v.sys.comcast.net with comcast id GiSl1p0042TL4Rh01iT7Qn; Mon, 17 Nov 2014 18:27:07 +0000 Received: from hobgoblin.ariadne.com ([24.34.72.61]) by resomta-ch2-17v.sys.comcast.net with comcast id GiT61p00J1KKtkw01iT7tK; Mon, 17 Nov 2014 18:27:07 +0000 Received: from hobgoblin.ariadne.com (hobgoblin.ariadne.com [127.0.0.1]) by hobgoblin.ariadne.com (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id sAHIR0Uv018816; Mon, 17 Nov 2014 13:27:00 -0500 Received: (from worley@localhost) by hobgoblin.ariadne.com (8.14.7/8.14.7/Submit) id sAHIR0KG018810; Mon, 17 Nov 2014 13:27:00 -0500 Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2014 13:27:00 -0500 Message-Id: <201411171827.sAHIR0KG018810@hobgoblin.ariadne.com> From: worley@ariadne.com (Dale R. Worley) Sender: worley@ariadne.com (Dale R. Worley) To: Michael Procter In-reply-to: (michael.ietf@gmail.com) References: <08B87AC6-270F-4CFA-A698-3F3DDA1FA484@edvina.net> DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=comcast.net; s=q20140121; t=1416248827; bh=YC15ADJIZZEEvQLgl3fcTexrx956hXEbCIz0umD2G1s=; h=Received:Received:Received:Received:Date:Message-Id:From:To: Subject; b=A2j06dMiMNY3XJwh7k1svoW+tUfPNtd9D+bXlBWm4ZVsnPlL/zhQvhCm5VFAd5ABz x+R+HXnSpsEpgoXJN8Il0f3pr1Oqkg3ZlL1gEWSTNdMPSlrt1f5VrKAcBiSpZDCh4a 5VLZNX9yOVLFFaXUhfNG5+Ta92V8dUEkqfpJZxDVX71jbC7NQCcL+L2ofOBuPMlMh9 eWf2iQl/ea+obloXUIhe7MuG+wXNruWxCnykz445QnVpTXgegLl3LPYfUqmkpIando HHpBfY/Afa/Rh+rKVtVsSsi7gI4h90myb3NPs/9fZeyOQDbTkuZuz6EoYDOx6pjxpT AJg2jH731Rfeg== Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dispatch/Jg-3Tru9044Tt33MHP1HH9ibEkE Cc: dispatch@ietf.org Subject: Re: [dispatch] draft-procter-dispatch-outbound-discovery-01 X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2014 18:27:11 -0000 > From: Michael Procter > I've been thinking about this approach a little more, and I am > starting to think you might be right! To see what it would look like, > I have just written a short draft > (draft-procter-dispatch-outbound-unaptr-00), and it is shorter and > cleaner to specify. The implementation doesn't look very hard either, > which is nice. Let me know what you think. I assume that you intend (though you didn't write it) that the UA should maintain one connection to one of the targets derived from the URI in one of the NAPTR records, a second connection to one of the targets derived from the URI in a *different* NAPTR record, etc. Dale From nobody Mon Nov 17 10:35:39 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52AB11A886D for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2014 10:35:38 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5_gGb2Etx_Bf for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2014 10:35:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from resqmta-ch2-06v.sys.comcast.net (resqmta-ch2-06v.sys.comcast.net [IPv6:2001:558:fe21:29:69:252:207:38]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8C9551A87E3 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2014 10:34:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from resomta-ch2-18v.sys.comcast.net ([69.252.207.114]) by resqmta-ch2-06v.sys.comcast.net with comcast id GiaT1p0032Udklx01iazY4; Mon, 17 Nov 2014 18:34:59 +0000 Received: from hobgoblin.ariadne.com ([24.34.72.61]) by resomta-ch2-18v.sys.comcast.net with comcast id Giay1p0011KKtkw01iay27; Mon, 17 Nov 2014 18:34:58 +0000 Received: from hobgoblin.ariadne.com (hobgoblin.ariadne.com [127.0.0.1]) by hobgoblin.ariadne.com (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id sAHIYvCC023836; Mon, 17 Nov 2014 13:34:57 -0500 Received: (from worley@localhost) by hobgoblin.ariadne.com (8.14.7/8.14.7/Submit) id sAHIYuN2023825; Mon, 17 Nov 2014 13:34:56 -0500 Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2014 13:34:56 -0500 Message-Id: <201411171834.sAHIYuN2023825@hobgoblin.ariadne.com> From: worley@ariadne.com (Dale R. Worley) Sender: worley@ariadne.com (Dale R. Worley) To: =?utf-8?Q?I=C3=B1aki?= Baz Castillo In-reply-to: (ibc@aliax.net) References: <08B87AC6-270F-4CFA-A698-3F3DDA1FA484@edvina.net> <949EF20990823C4C85C18D59AA11AD8B2748F8@FR712WXCHMBA11.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> <2F63DF47-A4B0-4834-8B3B-81AB3EBD2B25@edvina.net> <949EF20990823C4C85C18D59AA11AD8B27664A@FR712WXCHMBA11.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=comcast.net; s=q20140121; t=1416249299; bh=FrjLvF/OsjctZLLBOjSAljfQHVV1F2yPn7hPF8k/76E=; h=Received:Received:Received:Received:Date:Message-Id:From:To: Subject:MIME-version:Content-type; b=CTlNDuPDARTyr8DN0jJRHWYFiJJy2iwQR7PQI3cEOX0dFc23Kj7HecPgjXSJUdlL+ jYGPJyGJbosADlo6hwrVX7TtGaVjfyfqvukZoA9vEjauLXq0dN9SDAYzYo37QmJRAT qJvKDbAzrH7KpGx7wkF6Q5w/lT96jVC+xYpD19YTqHl1moKaOuLGpWjDZ+16xFNrQc g2TtEmsEaHwJJIvwBexgFPsHz8uKLEL8D/3Qdv03uef4X3pXnZOAmZhGvHHxxvw6tZ 5mc2AVyczibYCwQUdaEU1FfuDR7whhJ/4F/CeFJXE3cvWrER2HIdFWJhP0dQFOKXHj LyZBHthIfjc/A== Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dispatch/DlCNWa31eMGIftTqUlJH7FjvVtc Cc: dispatch@ietf.org Subject: Re: [dispatch] draft-procter-dispatch-outbound-discovery-01 X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2014 18:35:38 -0000 > From: Iñaki Baz Castillo > I'm sorry but, why should we assume "operators world" at all? May we > please assume "just pure Internet" instead of operators and their > "roaming business" relationship? It is a sign of a robust and highly usable protocol that it works well in many different types of situation. If a protocol works well only in certain specific deployment situations, it is probably not a good solution and will be vulnerable to future changes in Internet configuration and operation. In our case, we want the solution to work smoothly in a "globally flat" Internet and in "walled garden" situations, as well as the environment that is often encountered: a large, "globally flat" part of the Internet connected to various enterprise networks which are isolated to varying degrees by firewalls/NATs, as well as connected to tightly managed service provider networks. Dale From nobody Mon Nov 17 12:25:50 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C7CD1A904E for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2014 12:25:45 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kJElBj37QTrf for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2014 12:25:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wi0-x229.google.com (mail-wi0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c05::229]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CD8131A9061 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2014 12:25:36 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wi0-f169.google.com with SMTP id r20so3656817wiv.2 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2014 12:25:35 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=wG4x4qRzf4d/Nh8EAxqr+W2kgdR0tpMgTDtZexBIPYU=; b=Ze4S8OuzYQ7+JLSpst1og44kaOS5/rxgDSLziF3qWP9dZov/oAu0sIfVDH+RnuGTWC H2nlMEfJuf5kEwKK2YJ5lQmrEunEZibQOqOFCIFtRUVHcx0DyDAZile2dmog671CxcOP xbBDWWYSccfNiL1HRUHcRTQua/WfOb51lIOIiIkRV2Qo8d3gAp4C7WN8EtqJlv8YYObS TcFH2KHk15IqTK5uXmy8o4USAuAcUv6rdFK8s0pbf27/D129eBYPI2LyPnAAmJW0mrkS 1VjgDRo8xuc420mIJB1GNK9BePGvQb31qGah0+kI69Z06htrke0ybZV4TehGJz/1N+3M E7YA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.194.110.161 with SMTP id ib1mr43315440wjb.78.1416255935607; Mon, 17 Nov 2014 12:25:35 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.194.66.130 with HTTP; Mon, 17 Nov 2014 12:25:35 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <08B87AC6-270F-4CFA-A698-3F3DDA1FA484@edvina.net> Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2014 20:25:35 +0000 Message-ID: From: Michael Procter To: "Olle E. Johansson" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dispatch/ynbxyhxe-bcBjCn5b6H1rWwQkwY Cc: "dispatch@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [dispatch] draft-procter-dispatch-outbound-discovery-01 X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2014 20:25:46 -0000 Hi Olle, On 16 November 2014 20:06, Olle E. Johansson wrote: > > On 14 Nov 2014, at 16:02, Michael Procter wrote: >> I have just written a short draft >> (draft-procter-dispatch-outbound-unaptr-00), and it is shorter and >> cleaner to specify. The implementation doesn't look very hard either, >> which is nice. Let me know what you think. > I think it's good. > > In my view, the names in the first u-NAPTR lookup needs to be DNS names, > not SIP uris. These should be used for RFC 3263 lookup in order to > make it simple. By doing that, I can setup outbound proxys for TLS, > TCP and UDP and put them in the order I want. If there are > no NAPTR records, we go directly to SRV for that name. The main advantage of getting URIs rather than DNS names is that the URIs are directly usable in the outbound-proxy-set. That is to say, this draft simply becomes a way to determine the configuration of a UA rather than an alternative way to resolve the first hop. I agree that using URIs means another stage in the lookup, but in my mind, the separation of concerns is worth the extra lookup. You will still have complete flexibility to define TLS/TCP/UDP proxies in whatever order you wish. > Thank you for the acknowledgement, but please check the spelling > of my name :-) Many apologies! I have updated my version so it is corrected in a later issue. Best regards, Michael From nobody Mon Nov 17 12:26:13 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B55011A907C for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2014 12:26:08 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id D1dcUh0mrBo2 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2014 12:25:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wi0-x235.google.com (mail-wi0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c05::235]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 97C921A9064 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2014 12:25:56 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wi0-f181.google.com with SMTP id r20so4036684wiv.2 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2014 12:25:55 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=VQ53J+xflkQsRqvyXA4IhNeOQgn/iaKiDw91WoQ7XXM=; b=s3kEdoWi4cZPbOb5iKTt1krN2lQsKklXlJDTV00kI2Zu4y6Qt5mxCFKyf7IelPlDeL QOxbgeuCpDWnS38wXxC7u3Jd7hXUcbMxbvXq7Tdoi4N93s3MXYnmVM1YugxX2OFkIqWr NbUrOzd0GLj6deRiB0gFb9LWP8ki45NL6pa7BfAuCpOz1a101v/dAZRtpCr2atD6js7P geL5RHHZwq7aScShvtJP+4HUiu6rVQQ+f7biFXeODxb2geiKtv9WUWo1eQk6CoPyaFYN nk2IhGlyA5BdKQTNtHJJ98MtvkVUkGxGjRT77qoPhP7GT0sVXHdXe4Jw+VsqXIxPzzBo w+vg== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.180.98.233 with SMTP id el9mr33457807wib.3.1416255940845; Mon, 17 Nov 2014 12:25:40 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.194.66.130 with HTTP; Mon, 17 Nov 2014 12:25:40 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <201411171827.sAHIR0KG018810@hobgoblin.ariadne.com> References: <08B87AC6-270F-4CFA-A698-3F3DDA1FA484@edvina.net> <201411171827.sAHIR0KG018810@hobgoblin.ariadne.com> Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2014 20:25:40 +0000 Message-ID: From: Michael Procter To: "Dale R. Worley" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dispatch/G8XhuwRsZsZH9i_HY9MWxyho8uE Cc: "dispatch@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [dispatch] draft-procter-dispatch-outbound-discovery-01 X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2014 20:26:09 -0000 Hi Dale, On 17 November 2014 18:27, Dale R. Worley wrote: >> From: Michael Procter > >> I've been thinking about this approach a little more, and I am >> starting to think you might be right! To see what it would look like, >> I have just written a short draft >> (draft-procter-dispatch-outbound-unaptr-00), and it is shorter and >> cleaner to specify. The implementation doesn't look very hard either, >> which is nice. Let me know what you think. > > I assume that you intend (though you didn't write it) that the UA > should maintain one connection to one of the targets derived from the > URI in one of the NAPTR records, a second connection to one of the > targets derived from the URI in a *different* NAPTR record, etc. Yes, that's right. I wrote that: A UA may use as many of these as it supports in preference order as the outbound-proxy-set. I didn't mention that the UA generally maintains a connection to each target in the outbound-proxy-set as that part is already defined in RFC5626. Best regards, Michael From nobody Mon Nov 17 12:29:53 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC7E21A90E2 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2014 12:29:45 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PHuQlxhCbq8L for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2014 12:29:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wi0-x230.google.com (mail-wi0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c05::230]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 246681A9080 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2014 12:28:52 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wi0-f176.google.com with SMTP id ex7so7019652wid.3 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2014 12:28:51 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=GTmqdsXSf72B/mJfMQCPTrbiBL3OL8mShVRtrS0oqN8=; b=Izn8GbU+nGNAr0WnxnlEBvPVQeg6ImByqbKTZHMv6Dwh9tAnrL+8C/zwW/K4xazvk1 1oR6axGJE8YHKUDsUSbIkE0UNI+6k+31UdAeBmxb7gIN3Vn9LMVFy/SLZ3qWCc9aiNpv 6ar5y+HiDKpguKfuVNU78Gg/azH2H497KrU/EI6KTQ82bXqvUjKVDtlcTKNb9DjtRPQO HdBZqLVWMOE8nkHUpO7c7lPm8SrrmT25JJ6wyMoorqgcx1sca/flueHHgfc3WtgQMzGo NvMnIQnwIhGbalWAUxxLSydelAxLaGdDUT9iRWT4bdDzw1Odd2j5oyG7xLF+mL9Ivpkg Acbw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.180.104.234 with SMTP id gh10mr33513003wib.3.1416256130955; Mon, 17 Nov 2014 12:28:50 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.194.66.130 with HTTP; Mon, 17 Nov 2014 12:28:50 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <0C68A908-672E-4B42-95B9-49B5ADCECCFE@edvina.net> Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2014 20:28:50 +0000 Message-ID: From: Michael Procter To: =?UTF-8?Q?I=C3=B1aki_Baz_Castillo?= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dispatch/qUhrMg8Sn4Z81MwHNw2GBFoy_rM Cc: "dispatch@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [dispatch] draft-procter-dispatch-outbound-discovery-01 X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2014 20:29:46 -0000 Hi I=C3=B1aki, On 17 November 2014 00:57, I=C3=B1aki Baz Castillo wrote: > BTW, which is the aim of this feature? To auto-discover via DNS a list > of Outbound proxies for a given configuration domain? or to also > provide the "best" Outbound proxy given the geolocation of the user? The first - to auto-discover via DNS a list of outbound proxies suitable for use when registering against a specific domain. Geolocation is interesting, but isn't really my intended scope. My goal is only to define a simple way to make RFC5626 more commonly used by removing the need for explicit configuration of the outbound-proxy-set. Best regards, Michael From nobody Mon Nov 17 12:34:46 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7DD81A9008 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2014 12:34:36 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.551 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.551 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_SE=0.35, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id V1XBa_vWKy2x for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2014 12:34:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp7.webway.se (smtp7.webway.se [IPv6:2a02:920:212e::205]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EEDBA1A90B4 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2014 12:34:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.40.15] (h87-96-134-129.dynamic.se.alltele.net [87.96.134.129]) by smtp7.webway.se (Postfix) with ESMTPA id C35F993C1AF; Mon, 17 Nov 2014 20:33:58 +0000 (UTC) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) From: "Olle E. Johansson" In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2014 21:34:29 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <4CF15956-2E75-483F-9D01-E6C18C564E28@edvina.net> References: <08B87AC6-270F-4CFA-A698-3F3DDA1FA484@edvina.net> To: Michael Procter X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dispatch/l0jpK2RdYEdjBGtXmO44HiWS2R4 Cc: "dispatch@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [dispatch] draft-procter-dispatch-outbound-discovery-01 X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2014 20:34:37 -0000 On 17 Nov 2014, at 21:25, Michael Procter wrote: > Hi Olle, > > On 16 November 2014 20:06, Olle E. Johansson wrote: >> >> On 14 Nov 2014, at 16:02, Michael Procter wrote: >>> I have just written a short draft >>> (draft-procter-dispatch-outbound-unaptr-00), and it is shorter and >>> cleaner to specify. The implementation doesn't look very hard either, >>> which is nice. Let me know what you think. >> I think it's good. >> >> In my view, the names in the first u-NAPTR lookup needs to be DNS names, >> not SIP uris. These should be used for RFC 3263 lookup in order to >> make it simple. By doing that, I can setup outbound proxys for TLS, >> TCP and UDP and put them in the order I want. If there are >> no NAPTR records, we go directly to SRV for that name. > > The main advantage of getting URIs rather than DNS names is that the > URIs are directly usable in the outbound-proxy-set. That is to say, > this draft simply becomes a way to determine the configuration of a UA > rather than an alternative way to resolve the first hop. I agree that > using URIs means another stage in the lookup, but in my mind, the > separation of concerns is worth the extra lookup. You will still have > complete flexibility to define TLS/TCP/UDP proxies in whatever order > you wish. How do you provide that kind of flexibility for a URI? Do you mean that we go from URI to NAPTR? (Let's assume that sips: is gone, extinct and never existed) Maybe we're on to something :-) /O From nobody Mon Nov 17 13:53:26 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA2381ACD29 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2014 13:53:24 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2Nai99c2eKxk for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2014 13:53:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wi0-x22a.google.com (mail-wi0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c05::22a]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0237B1ACD2C for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2014 13:53:22 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wi0-f170.google.com with SMTP id bs8so4453615wib.1 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2014 13:53:20 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=XddEeKD+3pkrWfS+4CuhBxT2b3mG+eEOhsTagf5VIPs=; b=FtB5SMwpNUJy4646nViEpPx+kNVNEkw90fR1YfqQqwsozYKyD72tqrdp2+5AhT6Mgy yAMMSfcJLv+Ra0/LsjUzkrq7Pay3eLcJZKdxobGh/vaJuErBkPuvdWsttGNTqAveXs6U wkYBIUMSqSQx4b+a7Z28rklYTHAI3dJ0cxDapAXWmuAaCqpLwohbtyccXFapdzv7bBQD /LxADM4rGz39balPSxJodyY8MY0xB3bktMBuhN/u31CkwmOm75rHY742IiccD1YSxxn4 SdQ4g1uUFQkPLg3fPF14cbRRj8uGnx0PiUzBlbtvoAlg/iLHWcS6yQ3BJ7OcDrbAJg13 5KCw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.180.84.167 with SMTP id a7mr34486889wiz.39.1416261200817; Mon, 17 Nov 2014 13:53:20 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.194.66.130 with HTTP; Mon, 17 Nov 2014 13:53:20 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <4CF15956-2E75-483F-9D01-E6C18C564E28@edvina.net> References: <08B87AC6-270F-4CFA-A698-3F3DDA1FA484@edvina.net> <4CF15956-2E75-483F-9D01-E6C18C564E28@edvina.net> Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2014 21:53:20 +0000 Message-ID: From: Michael Procter To: "Olle E. Johansson" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dispatch/AcIp0S0gy8c4goPJicMANFqoh98 Cc: "dispatch@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [dispatch] draft-procter-dispatch-outbound-discovery-01 X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2014 21:53:25 -0000 On 17 November 2014 20:34, Olle E. Johansson wrote: >> The main advantage of getting URIs rather than DNS names is that the >> URIs are directly usable in the outbound-proxy-set. That is to say, >> this draft simply becomes a way to determine the configuration of a UA >> rather than an alternative way to resolve the first hop. I agree that >> using URIs means another stage in the lookup, but in my mind, the >> separation of concerns is worth the extra lookup. You will still have >> complete flexibility to define TLS/TCP/UDP proxies in whatever order >> you wish. > How do you provide that kind of flexibility for a URI? > > Do you mean that we go from URI to NAPTR? > (Let's assume that sips: is gone, extinct and never existed) > Maybe we're on to something :-) Yes. RFC5626 says: The client needs to perform normal [RFC3263] SIP DNS resolution on the URI from the outbound-proxy-set to pick a transport. But this is just restating the normal behaviour when you have a pre-loaded route. The outbound-proxy essentially becomes the top-most route header and so you resolve the next hop in the usual RFC3263 manner. This is spelt out in more detail in RFC5626 Section 4.2.1, 2nd para: For each outbound proxy URI in the set, the User Agent Client (UAC) SHOULD send a REGISTER request using this URI as the default outbound proxy. [...] Forming the route set for the request is outside the scope of this document, but typically results in sending the REGISTER such that the topmost Route header field contains a loose route to the outbound proxy URI. Best regards, Michael From nobody Mon Nov 17 22:54:35 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94A871AD35B for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2014 22:54:29 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.551 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.551 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_SE=0.35, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jtSKiJxrdx1J for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2014 22:54:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp7.webway.se (smtp7.webway.se [IPv6:2a02:920:212e::205]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE1841AD2C0 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2014 22:54:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.40.15] (h87-96-134-129.dynamic.se.alltele.net [87.96.134.129]) by smtp7.webway.se (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 758AD93C1AF; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 06:53:51 +0000 (UTC) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) From: "Olle E. Johansson" In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2014 07:54:05 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: References: <08B87AC6-270F-4CFA-A698-3F3DDA1FA484@edvina.net> <4CF15956-2E75-483F-9D01-E6C18C564E28@edvina.net> To: Michael Procter X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dispatch/CrNzgMxY9sqVLZtKN5HE_JAXFr0 Cc: "dispatch@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [dispatch] draft-procter-dispatch-outbound-discovery-01 X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2014 06:54:31 -0000 On 17 Nov 2014, at 22:53, Michael Procter wrote: > On 17 November 2014 20:34, Olle E. Johansson wrote: >>> The main advantage of getting URIs rather than DNS names is that the >>> URIs are directly usable in the outbound-proxy-set. That is to say, >>> this draft simply becomes a way to determine the configuration of a UA >>> rather than an alternative way to resolve the first hop. I agree that >>> using URIs means another stage in the lookup, but in my mind, the >>> separation of concerns is worth the extra lookup. You will still have >>> complete flexibility to define TLS/TCP/UDP proxies in whatever order >>> you wish. >> How do you provide that kind of flexibility for a URI? >> >> Do you mean that we go from URI to NAPTR? >> (Let's assume that sips: is gone, extinct and never existed) >> Maybe we're on to something :-) > > Yes. RFC5626 says: > > The client needs to perform normal [RFC3263] SIP DNS resolution on > the URI from the outbound-proxy-set to pick a transport. > > But this is just restating the normal behaviour when you have a > pre-loaded route. The outbound-proxy essentially becomes the top-most > route header and so you resolve the next hop in the usual RFC3263 > manner. This is spelt out in more detail in RFC5626 Section 4.2.1, > 2nd para: > > For each outbound proxy URI in the set, the User Agent Client (UAC) > SHOULD send a REGISTER request using this URI as the default outbound > proxy. [...] Forming the route set for the request is > outside the scope of this document, but typically results in sending > the REGISTER such that the topmost Route header field contains a > loose route to the outbound proxy URI. > THank you for the clarification - this looks good. The only thing that bugs me is the difference in syntax between this NAPTR and the RFC 3263 NAPTR that has an empty regex. I understand that that type is different and has to have a SRV record. How do we handle the priorities of the NAPTR entry? /O From nobody Tue Nov 18 08:29:15 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FF871A1A94 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 08:29:13 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LX-czXxUEDKz for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 08:29:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from resqmta-po-03v.sys.comcast.net (resqmta-po-03v.sys.comcast.net [IPv6:2001:558:fe16:19:96:114:154:162]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A39291A1A4D for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 08:29:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from resomta-po-09v.sys.comcast.net ([96.114.154.233]) by resqmta-po-03v.sys.comcast.net with comcast id H4Ua1p00252QWKC014VBDE; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 16:29:11 +0000 Received: from hobgoblin.ariadne.com ([24.34.72.61]) by resomta-po-09v.sys.comcast.net with comcast id H4VA1p0021KKtkw014VAUm; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 16:29:10 +0000 Received: from hobgoblin.ariadne.com (hobgoblin.ariadne.com [127.0.0.1]) by hobgoblin.ariadne.com (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id sAIGT9AI023756; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 11:29:09 -0500 Received: (from worley@localhost) by hobgoblin.ariadne.com (8.14.7/8.14.7/Submit) id sAIGT9mx023753; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 11:29:09 -0500 Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2014 11:29:09 -0500 Message-Id: <201411181629.sAIGT9mx023753@hobgoblin.ariadne.com> From: worley@ariadne.com (Dale R. Worley) Sender: worley@ariadne.com (Dale R. Worley) To: Michael Procter In-reply-to: (michael.ietf@gmail.com) References: <08B87AC6-270F-4CFA-A698-3F3DDA1FA484@edvina.net> <201411171827.sAHIR0KG018810@hobgoblin.ariadne.com> DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=comcast.net; s=q20140121; t=1416328151; bh=R+PoOUhDB4qkfgy/YOoudZmuG75e3UiTX/+zB9u5z+A=; h=Received:Received:Received:Received:Date:Message-Id:From:To: Subject; b=f03gTHwBZuKkp0GLS19ZfV5eI6LT3mvMnBKGK5rXYPB8Kbt6pN7zPloJUoJCuFORe CqPTJWDvvwrnaf9GQCoiEO6fTQFpg+lqyslti6AvsahLfp7bLQOoCbNJw9VOsJjRbh nmYzP7YkoHV1zHm3TDKSW9ar/pCp/70PiFtBIsVbfy7J7SNtcmByyTsY1WXUcfvc1u WSJYvOrbYd1jXUa5t+dFvRPcRon/TLNrhytHO4a/REr60MDgJpJRrSpPjS3O8w2S9W 0nmrg3FRmJUvXlbcPy5b+ezW7rA+V9ABry2VIS/OxSlsZDT7k2pc4mxLCh76PDb+cX 90HE2xD9Rgk9A== Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dispatch/9FfSHZFdPmaXxXMhCIknoC5S6UQ Cc: dispatch@ietf.org Subject: Re: [dispatch] draft-procter-dispatch-outbound-discovery-01 X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2014 16:29:13 -0000 > From: Michael Procter > > I assume that you intend (though you didn't write it) that the UA > > should maintain one connection to one of the targets derived from the > > URI in one of the NAPTR records, a second connection to one of the > > targets derived from the URI in a *different* NAPTR record, etc. > > Yes, that's right. I wrote that: > A UA may use as many of these as it supports in preference > order as the outbound-proxy-set. Ah, I overlooked that sentence. > From: Michael Procter > The main advantage of getting URIs rather than DNS names is that the > URIs are directly usable in the outbound-proxy-set. That is to say, > this draft simply becomes a way to determine the configuration of a UA > rather than an alternative way to resolve the first hop. I agree that > using URIs means another stage in the lookup, but in my mind, the > separation of concerns is worth the extra lookup. This system also has the conceptual advantage that the multiplexing regarding "multiple paths to edge proxies" is represented in a different way than the usual SIP "multiple paths to equivalent targets". That is, we don't have to have a different semantic for DNS SRV records in this situation than we normally have. An advantage of having the process produce a list of URIs (rather than just domain names) is that URIs can have port numbers and other decorations (even user and password!). Dale From nobody Tue Nov 18 09:23:31 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DF5D1A1B5B for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 09:23:25 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ldx4CIaxWm1R for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 09:23:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wi0-x22a.google.com (mail-wi0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c05::22a]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 887FF1A1B91 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 09:23:19 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wi0-f170.google.com with SMTP id bs8so6993343wib.3 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 09:23:18 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=OyVdYyvJtzdCJ1gwL5heX4XdxmBCfEmgWwl2XoJND4I=; b=zCwHYd+o6Fk80jN0DcuP+a3nUJPTLjKMQvnDbeg9aUZqsHBeBN8cRTUdT53XCnABdF jfXk0+cfqkVV7ElpoZfIufBC74m3+1+GnaMFZLZgc4i07tJ1HQHrHN7+KNBKwdP6Wj58 1qI7g8yl+uqc5KZjAdT8ZpDpIJ/4tNBVLzizNlrPw3WU2gORlT/mP2vB85ox3FyeOXcU NzdEVy7382KAP4UMhGeUPVVAuYxCf6ct+XQcSpRBSRuhwyv5gOv6vuTsZLYaMekejj1u YWMVAPdS00D1yX1jB3xVuceJTe+exfobIPDkBfZA1VdTWNvWjy0YDogI4M+CggL5HcFM wqUA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.180.104.234 with SMTP id gh10mr40843473wib.3.1416331398289; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 09:23:18 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.195.13.47 with HTTP; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 09:23:18 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <08B87AC6-270F-4CFA-A698-3F3DDA1FA484@edvina.net> <4CF15956-2E75-483F-9D01-E6C18C564E28@edvina.net> Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2014 17:23:18 +0000 Message-ID: From: Michael Procter To: "Olle E. Johansson" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dispatch/Rkj5Cj0UYJ_MFsNNHR1jmDlOTE8 Cc: "dispatch@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [dispatch] draft-procter-dispatch-outbound-discovery-01 X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2014 17:23:25 -0000 On 18 November 2014 06:54, Olle E. Johansson wrote: > The only thing that bugs me is the difference in syntax between this NAPTR > and the RFC 3263 NAPTR that has an empty regex. I understand that that > type is different and has to have a SRV record. This is a consequence of using RFC4848 as the basis of the mechanism. The data has to be in the REGEXP field as the REPLACEMENT field can only contain valid domain names and I want to use URIs. RFC4848 section 2.2 defines a minimal syntax for the REGEXP field to avoid UAs needing to implement full regular expression support. Whilst a NAPTR record has both REGEXP and REPLACEMENT fields, only one can be used. As RFC3403 states in the last paragraph of section 4.1 concerning the REPLACEMENT field: This field and the REGEXP field together make up the Substitution Expression in the DDDS Algorithm. It is simply a historical optimization specifically for DNS compression that this field exists. The fields are also mutually exclusive. If a record is returned that has values for both fields then it is considered to be in error and SHOULD be either ignored or an error returned. > How do we handle the priorities of the NAPTR entry? The priority value is encoded in the NAPTR preference field. I have suggested that a UA uses the URIs to populate its outbound-proxy-set in preference order. If the UA supports only two members in the o-p-s, it uses the first two (lowest preferences). If it supports 4 (recommended in RFC5626), it uses the first four, again in preference order. Best regards, Michael From nobody Tue Nov 18 09:23:39 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56F6C1A1B5B for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 09:23:29 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sk3y7pTnArJD for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 09:23:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wg0-x231.google.com (mail-wg0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c00::231]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 71B021A1B9C for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 09:23:26 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wg0-f49.google.com with SMTP id x12so442296wgg.36 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 09:23:24 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=YsIZo6AM9IDH+FuaGPid7pXXUXR9BqzeN0tlfCAGdOg=; b=CW7MG5NkExzT5yb3EZ1rYzMLmx5/nzEBjp9wedkz+8N4QCT3cp5vkUv/Vb7pO+Pp7V Uk2yB4kERP4bOYJQHkTHr8iENfFXV5X0XA7hUbFp4fYAJbBN1vNhpbJp8i7b+D/sY1YV Iij/syJEuk+Oh3ujzg7nGLvUPIQYuqc3z3xl1+DxbezHTqASNiHEspJ/JK4VRzj4c9Be +xxhKNbK59nMBU7/TQDGI+g0Ud9TFBkM9+X7EyRjHMpgEoYjRbWzE09IZs7f9kPW2kHQ 6eNb/foNAzHij8e8aq+lLnzpj6FKmeRch5cVOq0jbYOQ/aAkrVijsLlFnHdr16jDKAMi JniQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.180.84.167 with SMTP id a7mr41558321wiz.39.1416331404060; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 09:23:24 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.195.13.47 with HTTP; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 09:23:23 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <201411181629.sAIGT9mx023753@hobgoblin.ariadne.com> References: <08B87AC6-270F-4CFA-A698-3F3DDA1FA484@edvina.net> <201411171827.sAHIR0KG018810@hobgoblin.ariadne.com> <201411181629.sAIGT9mx023753@hobgoblin.ariadne.com> Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2014 17:23:23 +0000 Message-ID: From: Michael Procter To: "Dale R. Worley" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dispatch/9ylgiPyFJMR1DEf8NH_lzs9XwaY Cc: "dispatch@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [dispatch] draft-procter-dispatch-outbound-discovery-01 X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2014 17:23:30 -0000 On 18 November 2014 16:29, Dale R. Worley wrote: > This system also has the conceptual advantage that the multiplexing > regarding "multiple paths to edge proxies" is represented in a > different way than the usual SIP "multiple paths to equivalent > targets". That is, we don't have to have a different semantic for DNS > SRV records in this situation than we normally have. That is true. Once I took the time to think through the consequences of Olle's suggestion, I came to the conclusion that it makes a lot of sense to use this approach. It avoids overloading SRV records as you say, and by generating URIs, it maps more cleanly to the problem of only providing the outbound-proxy-set. > An advantage of having the process produce a list of URIs (rather than > just domain names) is that URIs can have port numbers and other > decorations (even user and password!). Yes. There are lots of fun things that we can do with this mechanism! Best regards, Michael From nobody Wed Nov 19 09:34:09 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6A7A1AD3C8 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 09:34:07 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.348 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.348 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_20=-0.001, HELO_EQ_SE=0.35, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id udnQV8rpV1bg for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 09:34:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp7.webway.se (smtp7.webway.se [IPv6:2a02:920:212e::205]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A8831AD3BD for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 09:33:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.35.67.156] (unknown [109.159.159.194]) by smtp7.webway.se (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 4AEE093C1AF; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 17:33:22 +0000 (UTC) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) From: "Olle E. Johansson" In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 17:33:46 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <53926318-DBA4-43C3-A199-6FA22561E6E4@edvina.net> References: <08B87AC6-270F-4CFA-A698-3F3DDA1FA484@edvina.net> <201411171827.sAHIR0KG018810@hobgoblin.ariadne.com> <201411181629.sAIGT9mx023753@hobgoblin.ariadne.com> To: Michael Procter X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dispatch/QZpMcmL8XSqpiRpcdEzsWSMN37Q Cc: "dispatch@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [dispatch] draft-procter-dispatch-outbound-discovery-01 X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 17:34:08 -0000 On 18 Nov 2014, at 17:23, Michael Procter wrote: > On 18 November 2014 16:29, Dale R. Worley wrote: >> This system also has the conceptual advantage that the multiplexing >> regarding "multiple paths to edge proxies" is represented in a >> different way than the usual SIP "multiple paths to equivalent >> targets". That is, we don't have to have a different semantic for DNS >> SRV records in this situation than we normally have. > > That is true. Once I took the time to think through the consequences > of Olle's suggestion, I came to the conclusion that it makes a lot of > sense to use this approach. It avoids overloading SRV records as you > say, and by generating URIs, it maps more cleanly to the problem of > only providing the outbound-proxy-set. I do agree. Let's get this dispatched! > >> An advantage of having the process produce a list of URIs (rather than >> just domain names) is that URIs can have port numbers and other >> decorations (even user and password!). > > Yes. There are lots of fun things that we can do with this mechanism! Hrrmpf. I don't include "password in DNS" in my set of "fun things" ;-) /O From nobody Thu Nov 20 15:37:38 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25D441A89AE for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 15:37:36 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mcdL_VciOstY for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 15:37:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from resqmta-ch2-05v.sys.comcast.net (resqmta-ch2-05v.sys.comcast.net [IPv6:2001:558:fe21:29:69:252:207:37]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8FE241A89AC for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 15:37:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from resomta-ch2-11v.sys.comcast.net ([69.252.207.107]) by resqmta-ch2-05v.sys.comcast.net with comcast id Hzd81p0042Ka2Q501zdYMR; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 23:37:32 +0000 Received: from hobgoblin.ariadne.com ([24.34.72.61]) by resomta-ch2-11v.sys.comcast.net with comcast id HzdV1p0021KKtkw01zdVlK; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 23:37:32 +0000 Received: from hobgoblin.ariadne.com (hobgoblin.ariadne.com [127.0.0.1]) by hobgoblin.ariadne.com (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id sAKNbSiG021238; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 18:37:28 -0500 Received: (from worley@localhost) by hobgoblin.ariadne.com (8.14.7/8.14.7/Submit) id sAKNbQ3C021218; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 18:37:26 -0500 Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2014 18:37:26 -0500 Message-Id: <201411202337.sAKNbQ3C021218@hobgoblin.ariadne.com> From: worley@ariadne.com (Dale R. Worley) Sender: worley@ariadne.com (Dale R. Worley) To: Michael Procter In-reply-to: (michael.ietf@gmail.com) References: <08B87AC6-270F-4CFA-A698-3F3DDA1FA484@edvina.net> <4CF15956-2E75-483F-9D01-E6C18C564E28@edvina.net> DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=comcast.net; s=q20140121; t=1416526652; bh=ArGcE018p0Prz/ZdxJuVCry1GasLlwP5b3Xit/T0000=; h=Received:Received:Received:Received:Date:Message-Id:From:To: Subject; b=SC3IhhCxj6ySTciMUdLcp77W0M1FXYhIw6VwnQXcTRDcFRSpvY0aUrAsk7PX6nWKu ZN3aFDVi6kXd1IeG63LsnZiENeHnf2giXZ1/iTXUxDLSHahNLsTK9VjFPZcU9UFekz Sb0dqEt2FfI9XCsUJRNkYKq2StOVbmLzRhgl1iGt2BC32vl/WKiJR3sIAOHgpzQttw 30MFQ1kvafTQNo1h3wDURzvX0rXEh9CLbsmpb+/+7dnd7VdQnNNb09zu/pyTpMbJYR qKCUfT+wxuGGOTJO/K4N+H4M81tStr3U6gveavlQdIfXrUrfby3p1qycT53Mwpp8IS ZUuZZ1O/GHEsg== Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dispatch/iiG-TaTVibBQ1b1quODCL-YdRLE Cc: dispatch@ietf.org Subject: Re: [dispatch] draft-procter-dispatch-outbound-discovery-01 X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2014 23:37:36 -0000 > From: Michael Procter > > How do we handle the priorities of the NAPTR entry? > > The priority value is encoded in the NAPTR preference field. I have > suggested that a UA uses the URIs to populate its outbound-proxy-set > in preference order. If the UA supports only two members in the > o-p-s, it uses the first two (lowest preferences). If it supports 4 > (recommended in RFC5626), it uses the first four, again in preference > order. And conversely, we should specify that all the NAPTRs have the same "order" field. (Or perhaps fix the "order" field value?) Given that RFC 2915 is particularly strict that the resolver should consider only NAPTRs with one "order" value: Order A 16-bit unsigned integer specifying the order in which the NAPTR records MUST be processed to ensure the correct ordering of rules. Low numbers are processed before high numbers, and once a NAPTR is found whose rule "matches" the target, the client MUST NOT consider any NAPTRs with a higher value for order (except as noted below for the Flags field). > From: "Olle E. Johansson" > Hrrmpf. I don't include "password in DNS" in my set of "fun things" ;-) That's a point. Dale