From nobody Fri Jan 6 13:14:40 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 063B9129601 for ; Fri, 6 Jan 2017 13:14:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.401 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.401 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, RCVD_IN_SORBS_SPAM=0.5] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kDLdYab3HU5s for ; Fri, 6 Jan 2017 13:14:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.smtpout.orange.fr (smtp09.smtpout.orange.fr [80.12.242.131]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2C3891295E2 for ; Fri, 6 Jan 2017 13:14:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from macbook-pro-de-julien-elie.home ([92.170.5.52]) by mwinf5d18 with ME id V9Eb1u00p17Lgi4039EcFe; Fri, 06 Jan 2017 22:14:36 +0100 X-ME-Helo: macbook-pro-de-julien-elie.home X-ME-Auth: anVsaWVuLmVsaWU0ODdAd2FuYWRvby5mcg== X-ME-Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2017 22:14:36 +0100 X-ME-IP: 92.170.5.52 References: <72631ecb-c85b-6d3f-5113-b5dbadb6cbfd@trigofacile.com> To: dispatch@ietf.org From: =?UTF-8?Q?Julien_=c3=89LIE?= Organization: TrigoFACILE -- http://www.trigofacile.com/ Message-ID: <4edc3055-b2a1-3ee1-1a15-e3897b07ab0a@trigofacile.com> Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2017 22:14:35 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.12; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dispatch] Maturity level of NNTP and Netnews-related RFCs X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2017 21:14:40 -0000 Hi Barry, >> I think that RFCs related to NNTP and Netnews can be good candidates to >> advance from Proposed Standards to Internet Standards. > > One snag here has traditionally been that there are lots of > prerequisites (normative references) that are still at PS. The major > ones here are the MIME specs (2045 and 2047) and base64 (4648). Oh, I was not aware of that prerequisite (not mentioned in RFC 6410). > To that end, there've been a couple of attempts to start pushing the > whole batch of SMTP (RFC 5321), message format (RFC 5322), MIME (RFCs > 2045 thru 2049), and several others up to IS, enabling others batches > such as NNTP to go afterward. See the aborted YAM working group for > one such attempt. > > RFCs 5321 and 5322 are really the linchpins for this; we'd need to > start with those. OK, I totally understand. Thanks for having answered, Barry. Advancing the maturity level of MIME specs and mail do not seem "easy" :-/ >> Though RFC 3977 has lots of errata, I don't think they would cause >> interoperability failures. They should be considered more than wording >> improvements and consistency than interoperability failures. For a possible future advance of NNTP core spec to Internet Standard, do you think a draft like draft-ietf-tsvwg-rfc4960-errata would be useful? (which even may be published as informational, for useful reference as it may take long time before MIME specs and mail are Internet Standards) https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-tsvwg-rfc4960-errata/ -- Julien ÉLIE « The following two statements are usually both true: There's not enough documentation. There's too much documentation. » (Larry Wall) From nobody Sat Jan 7 08:52:05 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4455129585 for ; Sat, 7 Jan 2017 08:52:03 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.8 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=yandex.ru Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2wmTUqUENM8S for ; Sat, 7 Jan 2017 08:52:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from forward19m.cmail.yandex.net (forward19m.cmail.yandex.net [5.255.216.150]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 03FF5129581 for ; Sat, 7 Jan 2017 08:52:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from mxback7h.mail.yandex.net (mxback7h.mail.yandex.net [84.201.186.16]) by forward19m.cmail.yandex.net (Yandex) with ESMTP id 8651421393; Sat, 7 Jan 2017 19:51:57 +0300 (MSK) Received: from web27h.yandex.ru (web27h.yandex.ru [84.201.187.161]) by mxback7h.mail.yandex.net (nwsmtp/Yandex) with ESMTP id ISzy30JEe2-punq9eWh; Sat, 07 Jan 2017 19:51:56 +0300 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yandex.ru; s=mail; t=1483807916; bh=O4lNqUcIQns9eK8Eo9UQCZSTm0CbPjXJ207WelOrDeA=; h=From:To:Subject:Message-Id:Date; b=XwnqVooHEspCCXVv+Y/FwqoWG8xm21ynQsiKecu8KNXQOJjjEmFju3IQBUq4eebQO 7oHy2eaRPtCslJtr722FHF7XuTen+QnUKSvNjRS3KR8weKIWuFh1N3DKG8K7Vrk8NM 3u1O+Ws+4DyrkkJ/1hNEI9GxuodAAaqMyIZcrQ50= Authentication-Results: mxback7h.mail.yandex.net; dkim=pass header.i=@yandex.ru Received: by web27h.yandex.ru with HTTP; Sat, 07 Jan 2017 19:51:56 +0300 From: Anton Tveretin To: DISPATCH list , "public-payments-wg@w3.org" MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <9603211483807916@web27h.yandex.ru> X-Mailer: Yamail [ http://yandex.ru ] 5.0 Date: Sat, 07 Jan 2017 21:51:56 +0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain Archived-At: Subject: [dispatch] NGMTP Class 9 Questions & Answers X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 07 Jan 2017 16:52:03 -0000 Hello All, I have published a small memo for the format of payment documents. This is not the actual specification. Direct URL: http://www.fit-rulez.narod.ru/ngmtp/ngmtp_c9_qa.html In the past, both work groups showed interest in these. Regards, Anton From Kris.KETELS@swift.com Mon Jan 9 05:06:56 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56A7E129C98 for ; Mon, 9 Jan 2017 05:06:56 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7.521 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.521 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-3.199, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=swift.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RqHtSgCipZZH for ; Mon, 9 Jan 2017 05:06:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from bemtal11.swift.com (mail.swift.com [194.78.35.144]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3E796129B3A for ; Mon, 9 Jan 2017 05:06:51 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=swift.com; i=@swift.com; l=1458; s=231116; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; z=From:=20KETELS=20Kris=20|To:=20An ton=20Tveretin=20,=20DISPATCH=20lis t=20,=0D=0A=09"public-payments-wg@w3.o rg"=20|CC:=20KETELS=20Kris=20< Kris.KETELS@swift.com>|Subject:=20RE:=20NGMTP=20Class=209 =20Questions=20&=20Answers|Date:=20Mon,=209=20Jan=202017 =2013:06:49=20+0000|Message-ID:=20<966D8C268A095048A7619E DB4AB0582601048209DB@BEEXCL25.swift.corp>|References:=20< 9603211483807916@web27h.yandex.ru>|In-Reply-To:=20<960321 1483807916@web27h.yandex.ru>|Content-Transfer-Encoding: =20quoted-printable|MIME-Version:=201.0; bh=864Qnjew/oZ2Bfb9l+zPTZF7avLmVLu/GHV8riWuc0k=; b=V/3Y09OukWZq2unjmkZFCvYs1InuMN+tqSyyWgg6ldzH5TvQGboLWZy9 +xAsu1yAe75+hdicua3ufcV9QYVBF4kYfafNgnk8QzPzxp8aj/OmArMIl VqxGjt5jWyK/ALE5Nd0UXPx8TWgUc63VWZo2uS7y4QnF8nw2lCpb/3TQH BR2VgNWAiadORoDw2S0dsaZnDUYhezCBmwAEXjYF3Fb4KiKYt9qqvymft F2RDzSxmZKGFuau9MFMKj21SbzYcZboCkQF5kafxzmttDSHCgJ4yHuAV9 kl8m5+VzdJBfzJhySaNwyvcy1oUWEKqfapisYd6weGoecLEWuVOO3U63M g==; Received: from unknown (HELO BEECHL06.swift.corp) ([10.64.72.96]) by bemtal11.swift.com with ESMTP/TLS/AES128-SHA; 09 Jan 2017 13:06:49 +0000 Received: from BEEXCL25.swift.corp ([169.254.3.6]) by BEECHL06.swift.corp ([10.64.72.153]) with mapi id 14.03.0319.002; Mon, 9 Jan 2017 14:06:49 +0100 From: KETELS Kris To: Anton Tveretin , DISPATCH list , "public-payments-wg@w3.org" Thread-Topic: NGMTP Class 9 Questions & Answers Thread-Index: AQHSaS4TCZRDsSpm50CHOjjW0jF4YaEwG7RQ Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2017 13:06:49 +0000 Message-ID: <966D8C268A095048A7619EDB4AB0582601048209DB@BEEXCL25.swift.corp> References: <9603211483807916@web27h.yandex.ru> In-Reply-To: <9603211483807916@web27h.yandex.ru> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.64.73.3] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 09 Jan 2017 06:53:49 -0800 Cc: KETELS Kris Subject: Re: [dispatch] NGMTP Class 9 Questions & Answers X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2017 13:58:47 -0000 Anton, SWIFT MT is totally different from ISO 15022. SWIFT uses a proprietary synt= ax for all its messages, except category 5 (securities) which uses ISO 1502= 2. SWIFT MX is not the same as ISO 20022. ISO 20022 is far more than a syntax, let alone XML. It is a modeling method= ology and a repository of conceptual semantic concepts, BusinessProcesses, = BusinessTransactions and messages. Its layered design makes its logical mod= els syntax independent, allowing for the generation of XML, ASN1 and now al= so JSON from that same logical model, fostering thus interoperability betwe= en different syntaxes. We are as we speak extending ISO 20022 to model foll= owing RESTful architectural design principles. BTW I have no clue why you attach the note 'XML must die' to SWIFT MX ISO 2= 0022. Please be informed about a standard before judging it. I would happily info= rm you or give you a crash course on what ISO 20022 is really about. regards Kris Ketels -----Original Message----- From: Anton Tveretin [mailto:tveretinas@yandex.ru]=20 Sent: 07 January 2017 22:34 To: DISPATCH list; public-payments-wg@w3.org Subject: NGMTP Class 9 Questions & Answers Hello All, I have published a small memo for the format of payment documents. This is = not the actual specification. Direct URL: http://www.fit-rulez.narod.ru/ngmtp/ngmtp_c9_qa.html In the past, both work groups showed interest in these. Regards, Anton From Kris.KETELS@swift.com Mon Jan 9 05:58:17 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C5661294D3 for ; Mon, 9 Jan 2017 05:58:17 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.221 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.221 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-3.199, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=swift.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tLHUrViNFP4Y for ; Mon, 9 Jan 2017 05:58:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from bemtal11.swift.com (mail.swift.com [194.78.35.144]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CAB1D128DF6 for ; Mon, 9 Jan 2017 05:58:13 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=swift.com; i=@swift.com; l=1807; s=231116; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:references:in-reply-to: content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; z=From:=20KETELS=20Kris=20|To:=20An ton=20Tveretin=20,=20DISPATCH=20lis t=20,=0D=0A=09"public-payments-wg@w3.o rg"=20|Subject:=20RE:=20NGMTP =20Class=209=20Questions=20&=20Answers|Date:=20Mon,=209 =20Jan=202017=2013:58:11=20+0000|Message-ID:=20<966D8C268 A095048A7619EDB4AB058260104820CA3@BEEXCL25.swift.corp> |References:=20<9603211483807916@web27h.yandex.ru>=0D=0A =20<966D8C268A095048A7619EDB4AB0582601048209DB@BEEXCL25.s wift.corp>|In-Reply-To:=20<966D8C268A095048A7619EDB4AB058 2601048209DB@BEEXCL25.swift.corp> |Content-Transfer-Encoding:=20quoted-printable |MIME-Version:=201.0; bh=vCaHVc4281b+FIvZ8BTXxDyslRf63kqds3s+lmu84YM=; b=M/PBhbygEuJhOorpOkOo4PQXvZ3ztrw9Z4/40uK6JZBoPKQiMV6MzuNr 6ClOLkB+xoZvk9H9hGprViGV1uk6orDQEBhtXOhj+TUhJxm084YaEsOYA 5kPCPOrQj3oj7K0GeUd2fdNPU8BhA/hqEuCRFTtjsVEwz/wZYNelbHpCE veVzd1VQ2yoLHI45H7eI0nCAFA5BGWgnGerk1bmuhYgVg/sCnjgEnUHaS Bg/hwgT587c1auIRH0+MWXgPW9MNL96o3kekmvvYTkQxfvBXS/aMUMnI1 tTa/fyktNr7fWy9tj4p+XUM5GjNO/ZZr0hBsHNBDhJ8OH1wZqKtHONd/n w==; Received: from unknown (HELO BEECHL06.swift.corp) ([10.64.72.96]) by bemtal11.swift.com with ESMTP/TLS/AES128-SHA; 09 Jan 2017 13:58:12 +0000 Received: from BEEXCL25.swift.corp ([169.254.3.6]) by BEECHL06.swift.corp ([10.64.72.153]) with mapi id 14.03.0319.002; Mon, 9 Jan 2017 14:58:12 +0100 From: KETELS Kris To: Anton Tveretin , DISPATCH list , "public-payments-wg@w3.org" Thread-Topic: NGMTP Class 9 Questions & Answers Thread-Index: AQHSaS4TCZRDsSpm50CHOjjW0jF4YaEwG7RQgAASHqA= Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2017 13:58:11 +0000 Message-ID: <966D8C268A095048A7619EDB4AB058260104820CA3@BEEXCL25.swift.corp> References: <9603211483807916@web27h.yandex.ru> <966D8C268A095048A7619EDB4AB0582601048209DB@BEEXCL25.swift.corp> In-Reply-To: <966D8C268A095048A7619EDB4AB0582601048209DB@BEEXCL25.swift.corp> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.64.73.3] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 09 Jan 2017 06:53:50 -0800 Subject: Re: [dispatch] NGMTP Class 9 Questions & Answers X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2017 14:02:27 -0000 May be good to complete that SWIFT uses a proprietary syntax for all its MT= messages. MX covers SWIFT specific and ISO 20022 messages. -----Original Message----- From: KETELS Kris=20 Sent: 09 January 2017 14:07 To: Anton Tveretin; DISPATCH list; public-payments-wg@w3.org Cc: KETELS Kris Subject: RE: NGMTP Class 9 Questions & Answers Anton, SWIFT MT is totally different from ISO 15022. SWIFT uses a proprietary synt= ax for all its messages, except category 5 (securities) which uses ISO 1502= 2. SWIFT MX is not the same as ISO 20022. ISO 20022 is far more than a syntax, let alone XML. It is a modeling method= ology and a repository of conceptual semantic concepts, BusinessProcesses, = BusinessTransactions and messages. Its layered design makes its logical mod= els syntax independent, allowing for the generation of XML, ASN1 and now al= so JSON from that same logical model, fostering thus interoperability betwe= en different syntaxes. We are as we speak extending ISO 20022 to model foll= owing RESTful architectural design principles. BTW I have no clue why you attach the note 'XML must die' to SWIFT MX ISO 2= 0022. Please be informed about a standard before judging it. I would happily info= rm you or give you a crash course on what ISO 20022 is really about. regards Kris Ketels -----Original Message----- From: Anton Tveretin [mailto:tveretinas@yandex.ru]=20 Sent: 07 January 2017 22:34 To: DISPATCH list; public-payments-wg@w3.org Subject: NGMTP Class 9 Questions & Answers Hello All, I have published a small memo for the format of payment documents. This is = not the actual specification. Direct URL: http://www.fit-rulez.narod.ru/ngmtp/ngmtp_c9_qa.html In the past, both work groups showed interest in these. Regards, Anton From nobody Tue Jan 10 07:27:02 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14051129533 for ; Tue, 10 Jan 2017 07:27:02 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -17.721 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-17.721 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-3.199, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3T91wsrTrish for ; Tue, 10 Jan 2017 07:27:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from alln-iport-3.cisco.com (alln-iport-3.cisco.com [173.37.142.90]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 890A012950B for ; Tue, 10 Jan 2017 07:27:00 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=714; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1484062020; x=1485271620; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-id:content-transfer-encoding: mime-version; bh=yEyPoC8MLETIQhn5BS3C+WS4Xm6BSTRl7oqEzI3Dtrc=; b=W2WE2YhHBk7wDhwK7BeaFKw7qtxXsSFzNQ3NjSxLsMsfYRaPlW4CgHUZ cjlNzAaQCDaKx0Mg6ejMSkLuRGMt2pS6sFrU7dk0sCdlW7XpKIoQ+pJst P8ZNWlfm8w9sqfsSQatZpWjeJV1TRTK9EQmYgW8lqmuusE+vA9qZ8S55S g=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0AXAQBo/HRY/4gNJK1dGQEBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBBwEBAQEBgzoBAQEBAR9fgQ0HgkGLD5InlSeCCx8LhS5HAQICggA/FAECAQE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQEBAWMohGkBAQEDAQEBODQLBQsCAQgYHhAnCyUCBA4FiFUDEAgOsmiKIwEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAR2IRwiCV4QYEQEcMoMDgjEFmyMBkVGQYZJdAR8?= =?us-ascii?q?4cFAVOBABhhxzAQGGNoEhgQ0BAQE?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.33,344,1477958400"; d="scan'208";a="370169268" Received: from alln-core-3.cisco.com ([173.36.13.136]) by alln-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 10 Jan 2017 15:26:59 +0000 Received: from XCH-RTP-004.cisco.com (xch-rtp-004.cisco.com [64.101.220.144]) by alln-core-3.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v0AFQxBQ003653 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 10 Jan 2017 15:26:59 GMT Received: from xch-rtp-004.cisco.com (64.101.220.144) by XCH-RTP-004.cisco.com (64.101.220.144) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1210.3; Tue, 10 Jan 2017 10:26:58 -0500 Received: from xch-rtp-004.cisco.com ([64.101.220.144]) by XCH-RTP-004.cisco.com ([64.101.220.144]) with mapi id 15.00.1210.000; Tue, 10 Jan 2017 10:26:58 -0500 From: "Cullen Jennings (fluffy)" To: Anton Tveretin Thread-Topic: [dispatch] NGMTP Class 9 Questions & Answers Thread-Index: AQHSa1X7RvPtosCklUilrzJwwA57eg== Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2017 15:26:58 +0000 Message-ID: References: <9603211483807916@web27h.yandex.ru> In-Reply-To: <9603211483807916@web27h.yandex.ru> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.20.249.164] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: DISPATCH list , "public-payments-wg@w3.org" Subject: Re: [dispatch] NGMTP Class 9 Questions & Answers X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2017 15:27:02 -0000 So the sit you are using plays really weird video adds and content that my = corporate firewall marks as bad. Any chance you could just send an email to= the list or publish a draft.=20 Thanks > On Jan 7, 2017, at 9:51 AM, Anton Tveretin wrote: >=20 > Hello All, > I have published a small memo for the format of payment documents. This i= s not the actual specification. > Direct URL: http://www.fit-rulez.narod.ru/ngmtp/ngmtp_c9_qa.html > In the past, both work groups showed interest in these. > Regards, > Anton >=20 > _______________________________________________ > dispatch mailing list > dispatch@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dispatch From nobody Wed Jan 11 23:43:20 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9000F12948D for ; Wed, 11 Jan 2017 23:43:19 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.118 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.118 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-3.199, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ENO3nHJc8XHa for ; Wed, 11 Jan 2017 23:43:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from relais-inet.orange.com (mta241.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.66.41]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4F86812943E for ; Wed, 11 Jan 2017 23:43:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from opfedar07.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.9]) by opfedar27.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 8732C6048D; Thu, 12 Jan 2017 08:43:14 +0100 (CET) Received: from Exchangemail-eme2.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.31.19]) by opfedar07.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 6BAB4C0056; Thu, 12 Jan 2017 08:43:14 +0100 (CET) Received: from OPEXCLILMA4.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::65de:2f08:41e6:ebbe]) by OPEXCLILM44.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::b08d:5b75:e92c:a45f%18]) with mapi id 14.03.0319.002; Thu, 12 Jan 2017 08:43:14 +0100 From: To: "Dale R. Worley" , "dispatch@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [dispatch] Two week review: Progressing draft-mohali-dispatch-originating-cdiv-parameter as AD sponsored Thread-Index: AQHSJArVOeMZ5kkmq0+/ZV3ssisE7KE1BeGw Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2017 07:43:13 +0000 Message-ID: <24870_1484206994_58773392_24870_3860_1_8B970F90C584EA4E97D5BAAC9172DBB81C8AE14B@OPEXCLILMA4.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: (mary.ietf.barnes@gmail.com) <87bmyqzgva.fsf@hobgoblin.ariadne.com> In-Reply-To: <87bmyqzgva.fsf@hobgoblin.ariadne.com> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.168.234.1] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dispatch] Two week review: Progressing draft-mohali-dispatch-originating-cdiv-parameter as AD sponsored X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2017 07:43:19 -0000 Hi, I've submitted a new version (-03) for the P-Served-User header extension d= efining the originating-cdiv session case hereafter: URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-mohali-dispatch-= originating-cdiv-parameter-03.txt Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-mohali-dispatch-originati= ng-cdiv-parameter-03 Diff: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-mohali-dispatch-o= riginating-cdiv-parameter-03 I've tried to take on board all the comments I received from Dale and other= s. This version contains a huge number of improvements. If you have more comments on this version, please don't hesitate. Best regards, Marianne > -----Message d'origine----- > De=A0: dispatch [mailto:dispatch-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de Dale R. = Worley > Envoy=E9=A0: mercredi 12 octobre 2016 00:00 > =C0=A0: dispatch@ietf.org > Objet=A0: Re: [dispatch] Two week review: Progressing draft-mohali-dispat= ch- > originating-cdiv-parameter as AD sponsored >=20 > Review of draft-mohali-dispatch-originating-cdiv-parameter-02 >=20 > Since 3GPP has a need for this work, and since it is compatible with gene= ral SIP > usage, I support progressing this document once the following technical i= ssues > are resolved. >=20 > Dale > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > These comments are based on my understanding of how the P-Served-User > header is used. If my understanding is incorrect, it would probably be u= seful to > revise the text to clarifying the misunderstanding. >=20 > Technical: >=20 > - There has been discussion on the Dispatch mailing list of the possibili= ty of > multiple P-Served-User headers in one request. But it appears to me that > semantically there should never be more then one P-Served-User header fie= ld > value because the "orig", "orig-cdiv", and "term" session cases are mutua= lly > exclusive for a particular session at a particular time. Indeed, since a= n AS uses > P-Served-User to determine the session case, having more than one in a > request makes the AS unable to determine the correct behavior. >=20 > I believe this is why RFC 5502 does not authorize repeating P-Served-User= , and > why its ABNF does not allow a comma-separated list of values. However, R= FC > 5502 does not forbid repeating P-Served-User, either. I think it would b= e useful > to either file an erratum to RFC > 5502 specifying that P-Served-User cannot be repeated, or insert a clause= in > this draft updating RFC 5502 in that manner. >=20 > - It seems that once the originating S-CSCF is done performing the origin= ating > services, it must remove the P-Served-User header from the INVITE before > sending the INVITE to the transit/terminating proxy, even if that proxy i= s within > the same trust domain. Otherwise, the next proxy will have to obey the P- > Served-User header: >=20 > RFC 5502 section 7.2 >=20 > A proxy that supports the header MUST, upon receiving from a trusted > node the P-Served-User header in initial requests for a dialog or in > standalone requests, take the value of the P-Served-User header to > represent the served user in operations that require such > information. >=20 > However, this behavior is not specified in RFC 5502 section 7.2, which on= ly > described removing P-Served-User when the request crosses a Trust Domain > boundary. >=20 > How does my expectation compare to the behavior of 3GPP systems? Do RFC > 5502 sections 7.1 and 7.2 completely describe how 3GPP adds and removes P- > Served-User headers? >=20 > - It seems natural to me for "orig-cdiv" to be an alternative value of the > "sescase" parameter. I.e., to change RFC 5502 to >=20 > sessioncase-param =3D "sescase" EQUAL ( "orig" / "orig-cdiv" /= "term" ) >=20 > "orig", "term", and "orig-cdiv" are mutually exclusive states of a sessio= n, and > that fact is naturally expressed by alternative values of a single parame= ter. (Of > course, this change requires numerous small edits in the document.) >=20 > - This example is given in section 4.2: >=20 > P-Served-User: ; orig-cdiv; regstate=3Dreg >=20 > However, the description in section 2 of the proxy behavior that creates = a P- > Served-User header with "orig-cdiv" is: >=20 > In that case, the S-CSCF updates > the P-Served-User header field content by removing both "sescase" and > "regstate" header field parameters and inserting the "orig-cdiv" > header field parameter. >=20 > which can never create a P-Served-User header with both "orig-cdiv" > and "regstate". The example should be updated to what can occur in corre= ct > processing. >=20 > - The ABNF in RFC 5502 is incorrect: >=20 > sessioncase-param =3D "sescase" EQUAL "orig" / "term" > registration-state-param =3D "regstate" EQUAL "unreg" / "reg" >=20 > As written, it means: >=20 > sessioncase-param =3D ( "sescase" EQUAL "orig" ) / "term" > registration-state-param =3D ( "regstate" EQUAL "unreg" ) / "reg" >=20 > (because concatenation binds tighter than alternation) whereas what is > intended is: >=20 > sessioncase-param =3D "sescase" EQUAL ( "orig" / "term" ) > registration-state-param =3D "regstate" EQUAL ( "unreg" / "reg" ) >=20 > I have filed this as erratum 4827 to 5502 (since 5502 as written did not = specify > what was intended). Perhaps this draft should normatively update 5502 to= fix > this. >=20 > - In section 2, "Proxy behavior and parameter handling", is: >=20 > In that case, the S-CSCF updates > the P-Served-User header field content by removing both "sescase" and > "regstate" header field parameters and inserting the "orig-cdiv" > header field parameter. >=20 > However, it seems to me that the URI (PServedUser-value) will also have t= o be > changed. Before diversion, during terminating processing, the header is >=20 > P-Served-User: sip:terminating-user;sescase=3Dterm >=20 > After diversion, during Originating CDIV processing, the header has to be >=20 > P-Served-User: sip:originating-user;orig-cdiv >=20 > Editorial: >=20 > - The use of the "vspace" element in > draft-mohali-dispatch-originating-cdiv-parameter-02.xml is unusual. > In places, '' is used to generate what appears = to be a > paragraph break, but (from the point of view of XML2RFC) is not. >=20 > In other places, '' is used to break the line but not insert a b= lank line, > although the locations where that is done appear to me to be good places = for > paragraph breaks. That usage is uncommon in the formatting of RFCs. >=20 > It seems to me that in both cases, replacing the vspace with a paragraph = break > (in practice, changing it to "" or "{line > break}") would use XML2RFC in a way more consonant with common > usage. >=20 > - In regard to keywords, "5502" is listed in the XML, but it seems that t= he > format "RFC5502" is the more common format. You might want to add the > keyword "served user", as that seems to be the standard 3GPP term for the > user identity on whose behalf services are being executed. (Or is that > unnecessary because "served user" appears in the Abstract?) It would als= o help > if the parameter itself, orig-cdiv, appeared as a keyword. >=20 > - The long title, "P-Served-User Header Field Parameter for Originating C= DIV > session case in [SIP]", is correct but hard to read. > One alternative is "A P-Served-User Header Field Parameter for the Origin= ating > CDIV session case in [SIP]", or "The orig-cdiv parameter of the P-Served-= User > Header Field for the Originating CDIV session case in [SIP]". >=20 > Similarly, the start of the Abstract is hard to read: 'This specificatio= n defines a > new Session Initiation Protocol (SIP) P-Served-User header field paramete= r, > "orig-cdiv-param", which defines the session case ...' I think it would = be easier > to read as 'This specification defines the "orig-cdiv" parameter of the P= -Served- > User header field in the Session Initiation Protocol (SIP), which defines= the > session case...'. >=20 > - The short title, "orig-cdiv session case" is difficult to understand wi= thout the > draft as context. Perhaps "P-Served-User parameter orig-cdiv". >=20 > - The phrase "orig-cdiv-param" and variants of it are used in various pla= ces to > describe the "orig-cdiv" parameter of the P-Served-User header field. It= would > be clearer and more correct to use the words '"orig-cdiv" parameter', as = "orig- > cdiv-param" is only used as a nonterminal in the ABNF. >=20 > - In section 1.2, "Use Case", is: >=20 > Indeed, the originating user > remains the same and the diverting user's originating services do not > have to be triggered as if it was an originating call. For instance, > the originating user identity should not be hidden because the > diverting user has a privacy service for his/her own identity. In > the same manner, some specific services may be triggered when > performing a call diversion that would not be for a normal > originating call. >=20 > Reading this text, I am not sure if IMS always processes diversions in a = one > particular way, and that way is triggered by "orig-cdiv", or if there are > alternative ways that IMS allows. (The words "Indeed ... remains ..." im= plies > that a diverted call is always treated as orig-cdiv, but the words "do no= t have to > be triggered", "because the diverting user has a privacy service", "may be > triggered" suggest that there are alternative processing choices.) >=20 > I suspect that there are two allowed alternatives: (1) treat the session= as an > originating call by the diverting user ("P-Served-User: > sip:diverting-user;sescase=3Dorig"), or (2) treat the call as a call-dive= rsion > origination by the originating user ("P-Served-User: > sip:originating-user;orig-cdiv"). >=20 > In either case, the text should make it clearer what possibilities are al= lowed in > IMS. >=20 > - Section 5, "IANA Considerations", is: >=20 > This specification defines a new P-Served-User header field parameter > called orig-cdiv-param in the "Header Field Parameters and Parameter > Values" sub-registry as per the registry created by [RFC3968]. >=20 > The syntax is defined in Section 4. >=20 > The required information is: >=20 > Header Name References > -------------- ------------------ > P-Served-User [RFC5502][RFCXXXX] >=20 > The shown "required information" does not match the structure of the "Hea= der > Field Parameters and Parameter Values" registry, which is: >=20 > Header Field Parameter Name Predefined Values Reference > ------------ -------------- ----------------- --------- > Accept q No [RFC3261] > Accept-Encoding q No [RFC3261] > ... >=20 > However, the original error is in RFC 5502, which did not specify that en= tries > for P-Served-User be put into that registry. (P-Served-User is in the re= gistry > "Header Fields", however.) >=20 > It is not clear to me what the correct way to fix this is, but ultimately= , the > "Header Field Parameters and Parameter Values" > registry must contain these three rows that it does not now contain: >=20 > Header Field Parameter Name Predefined Values Reference > ------------ -------------- ----------------- --------- > P-Served-User sescase Yes [RFC5502] > P-Served-User regstate Yes [RFC5502] > P-Served-User orig-cdiv No [RFC5502] >=20 > Either this draft could provide all of these registrations, or an erratum= for RFC > 5502 could provide the first two, and the last one is provided by this dr= aft. In > any case, the listed "required information" in this draft needs to be rev= ised. >=20 > Nits: >=20 > Abstract >=20 > This document updates RFC5502 in order to add the originating after > CDIV session case. >=20 > I think this could be clarified by adding double-quotes here: >=20 > This document updates RFC5502 in order to add the "originating after > CDIV" session case. >=20 > 1.1. General >=20 > This document extends the P-Served- > User header field to include the session case for a forwarded leg > when a call diversion service (CDIV) has been invoked. >=20 > Does this processing apply to all call diversions or only some of them? = If it > applies in only some cases, I think the sentence needs to be extended as = "has > been invoked and [certain conditions]." >=20 > The generic-param of the P-Served-User is extended by the "orig-cdiv- > param" created as a new parameter for this Originating_CDIV session > case. >=20 > This isn't quite correct and isn't really how you want to phrase it. > Perhaps: >=20 > The generic-param of the P-Served-User is extended by defining a > parameter "orig-cdiv" for the Originating_CDIV session case. >=20 > But "Originating_CDIV" is used nowhere else in the draft, though "Origina= ting > CDIV" (without the underscore) is used in the title. Is this the best te= rm to use, > and what is the standard punctuation to use? >=20 > header field parameter usage, Section 2 specifies the proxy behavior > for the new header field parameter handling, and Section 3 discusses >=20 > I think this reads better if "handling" is moved: "... the proxy behavior= for > handling the new header field parameter, ..." >=20 > Section 4 describes the Syntax, >=20 > s/Syntax/syntax/ >=20 > header field parameter with the IANA >=20 > s/the IANA/IANA/ >=20 > 1.2. Use Case >=20 > To be able to determine which responsibilities the S-CSCF and the > Application Server haves to perform and on which user's behalf, it is > necessary to know in which situation is the session and who is the > current served user.[RFC5502] defines the originating and terminating > session cases. >=20 > This could be made clearer, and also, it could define "session case": >=20 > To be able to determine which responsibilities the S-CSCF and the > Application Server have to perform and on which user's behalf, it is > necessary to know the "session case", which is the current > situation of the session, and the current "served user", which is > the user on whose behalf originating or terminating services are > being performed.[RFC5502] >=20 > 2. Proxy behavior and parameter handling >=20 > The orig-cdiv-param header filed parameter can be used inside a trust >=20 > s/filed/field/ >=20 > In that case, the S-CSCF updates > the P-Served-User header field content by removing both "sescase" and > "regstate" header field parameters and inserting the "orig-cdiv" > header field parameter. >=20 > I think it would be clearer if this sentence specified what value is plac= ed (or > remains) in the PServedUser-value. However, there is a technical issue a= bove > regarding what that value should be. >=20 > Then the procedure would continue forwarding the INVITE request over > to an AS >=20 > The use of the subjunctive "would" does not match the rest of the section. > Better would be "Then the procedure continues by forwarding ...". >=20 > When the AS receives the INVITE request, it determines that the > session case is for "orig-cdiv" session case and will perform the > originating services to be executed after retargeting for the served > user. >=20 > It would probably be clearer to add "... the served user, which is the or= iginating > user, not the diverting user." >=20 > 3. Applicability >=20 > The use of the P-Served-User header field extensions is only > applicable inside a Trust Domain for served user. >=20 > I think the phrase "Trust Domain for served user" is intended to be "Trust > Domain for P-Served-User". Both phrases are used in RFC 5502, but the fi= rst > one appears to be incorrect: If one proxy trusts another proxy, it trust= s it for all > values of P-Served-User, it does not trust different sets of proxies for = different > served users -- as is explained the next sentence of the section. >=20 > 6. Security Considerations >=20 > As the orig-cdiv-param P-Served-User header field parameter can be >=20 > This would be easier to read as "As the orig-cdiv-param parameter of P-Se= rved- > User can be ...". >=20 > [END] >=20 > _______________________________________________ > dispatch mailing list > dispatch@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dispatch ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el= ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been = modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. From nobody Thu Jan 12 11:56:22 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1283312951E for ; Thu, 12 Jan 2017 11:56:21 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.934 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.934 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id u4-uMdmz6HzB for ; Thu, 12 Jan 2017 11:56:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from resqmta-po-08v.sys.comcast.net (resqmta-po-08v.sys.comcast.net [IPv6:2001:558:fe16:19:96:114:154:167]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F1CCE1294F9 for ; Thu, 12 Jan 2017 11:56:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from resomta-po-06v.sys.comcast.net ([96.114.154.230]) by resqmta-po-08v.sys.comcast.net with SMTP id RlSqcSaeJwySVRlTucvaSI; Thu, 12 Jan 2017 19:56:18 +0000 Received: from hobgoblin.ariadne.com ([IPv6:2601:192:4603:9471:222:fbff:fe91:d396]) by resomta-po-06v.sys.comcast.net with SMTP id RlTtc8jiUpJ41RlTuccoQ7; Thu, 12 Jan 2017 19:56:18 +0000 Received: from hobgoblin.ariadne.com (hobgoblin.ariadne.com [127.0.0.1]) by hobgoblin.ariadne.com (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id v0CJuHhN018225; Thu, 12 Jan 2017 14:56:17 -0500 Received: (from worley@localhost) by hobgoblin.ariadne.com (8.14.7/8.14.7/Submit) id v0CJuHJa018222; Thu, 12 Jan 2017 14:56:17 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: hobgoblin.ariadne.com: worley set sender to worley@alum.mit.edu using -f From: worley@ariadne.com (Dale R. Worley) To: In-Reply-To: <24870_1484206994_58773392_24870_3860_1_8B970F90C584EA4E97D5BAAC9172DBB81C8AE14B@OPEXCLILMA4.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> (marianne.mohali@orange.com) Sender: worley@ariadne.com (Dale R. Worley) Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2017 14:56:17 -0500 Message-ID: <87bmvc6oim.fsf@hobgoblin.ariadne.com> Archived-At: Cc: dispatch@ietf.org Subject: Re: [dispatch] Two week review: Progressing draft-mohali-dispatch-originating-cdiv-parameter as AD sponsored X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2017 19:56:21 -0000 Comments regarding the much-improved draft-mohali-dispatch-originating-cdiv-parameter-03: The ABNF in section 4.2 could be clarified and simplified, I think. There are various nits I could mention, but those matters will be better handled by the RFC Editor. 4.2. ABNF sessioncase-param = 1("sescase" EQUAL 1("orig" / "term")/ orig-cdiv) registration-state-param = "regstate" EQUAL 1("unreg" / "reg") orig-cdiv = "orig-cdiv" It seems like you could simplify the BNF by using "orig-cdiv" as a constant rather than having a nonterminal for it. The "1" multipliers aren't needed, since that is the default effect of "(...)". If the multiplers are removed, the outer parentheses for "sessioncase-param" aren't needed. Adding parentheses around the first alternative of "sessioncase-param" makes the production clearer. (per RFC 5234 section 3.5, "It is strongly advised that grouping notation be used, rather than relying on the proper reading of "bare" alternations, when alternatives consist of multiple rule names or literals.") The result of these changes would be sessioncase-param = ("sescase" EQUAL ("orig" / "term")) / "orig-cdiv" registration-state-param = "regstate" EQUAL ("unreg" / "reg") Dale From nobody Thu Jan 12 13:00:55 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29CB312948C for ; Thu, 12 Jan 2017 13:00:53 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-3.199, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=comcast.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ixyQz7gov8Bc for ; Thu, 12 Jan 2017 13:00:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from resqmta-po-09v.sys.comcast.net (resqmta-po-09v.sys.comcast.net [IPv6:2001:558:fe16:19:96:114:154:168]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D707D127A90 for ; Thu, 12 Jan 2017 13:00:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from resomta-po-08v.sys.comcast.net ([96.114.154.232]) by resqmta-po-09v.sys.comcast.net with SMTP id RmTqc4Kex5lLvRmUMcWQZ5; Thu, 12 Jan 2017 21:00:50 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=comcast.net; s=q20161114; t=1484254850; bh=CqKkvsc5IC9AfjwS4lM5O+Cs/WSYK3aALr96MVh4cRc=; h=Received:Received:Subject:To:From:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version: Content-Type; b=LGa7rveUlvAmRXeHUA364+9K2EBSANYSxByHsZotmqi62VfWara673r5tSwFVaDt7 J7gWII/0fw8UA7O+lLT21BY0yEnJISUBk3XMk61dE+jkIE2hc2RF9FSEpc0S9PZMwy HRCZLhFlSRmCV0nfcNioU2sqIxRNLHJFvE6mGXCQCdffzs9wKPuLZxizMDfXcp6w2n DBAmTK3EdUsLBIo4njuugntkxVU4rJIXBMxsGJvtcOLkE2oF0oCcja7lIL88SgDVQB 2/pU+LtsDspS2lh9NSV0SXnsitgYDWyCmIj4Hxqygu25de2ewmWeLliTm/9aJ73ewU 54fJQPHtNwREA== Received: from [192.168.1.110] ([73.186.127.100]) by resomta-po-08v.sys.comcast.net with SMTP id RmULcUb8dud4LRmULcySJ0; Thu, 12 Jan 2017 21:00:50 +0000 To: dispatch@ietf.org References: <87bmvc6oim.fsf@hobgoblin.ariadne.com> From: Paul Kyzivat Message-ID: <2ba6852d-aa93-7630-d24d-98f21865fc8b@comcast.net> Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2017 16:00:49 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <87bmvc6oim.fsf@hobgoblin.ariadne.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dispatch] Two week review: Progressing draft-mohali-dispatch-originating-cdiv-parameter as AD sponsored X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2017 21:00:53 -0000 On 1/12/17 2:56 PM, Dale R. Worley wrote: > The result of these changes would be > > sessioncase-param = ("sescase" EQUAL ("orig" / "term")) / "orig-cdiv" > registration-state-param = "regstate" EQUAL ("unreg" / "reg") registration-state-param = "regstate" EQUAL ["un"] "reg" From nobody Thu Jan 12 13:55:05 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E86BF129443 for ; Thu, 12 Jan 2017 13:55:03 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -17.721 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-17.721 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-3.199, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HYK0LWfAL3Q8 for ; Thu, 12 Jan 2017 13:55:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from rcdn-iport-4.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-4.cisco.com [173.37.86.75]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DD5F3124281 for ; Thu, 12 Jan 2017 13:55:01 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=713; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1484258101; x=1485467701; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-id:content-transfer-encoding: mime-version; bh=aS3nY4ueFYq1LnVksCdxpKvfC4sN4T6Di7kcynGsqXc=; b=G1xvwLc6nVIlXjaVI+3m7OIjxSCa8LmS5fwjKazBQ8si9cCCCEmjt3nD XjcOLv4AhiJOjcklBQbF1HnN/+4U4S8N7JDrVfCamhXIHnhhCJJ3XLq4S RePTg32MzKdwYbCYOqH0ae3UEm7Zezja8Ai4wtJaL9Zn+sfKmC45rjR/Q 4=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0DjAgBe+ndY/5BdJa1dGQEBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBBwEBAQEBgzwBAQEBAR9fgQkHgkKdI5c3HwuFLkcBAgKCCEIRAQIBAQEBAQE?= =?us-ascii?q?BYyiEaQEBAQMBAQE4NAsFCwIBCBgeECcLJQIEDgWIZQMQCA6zEYoNAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBHYhHgl+EGBEBHDKDAYIxBZssAZFVkGqSYwE1InFTFTo?= =?us-ascii?q?QAYYecwEBhjaBIYENAQEB?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.33,220,1477958400"; d="scan'208";a="194071454" Received: from rcdn-core-8.cisco.com ([173.37.93.144]) by rcdn-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 12 Jan 2017 21:55:00 +0000 Received: from XCH-RTP-001.cisco.com (xch-rtp-001.cisco.com [64.101.220.141]) by rcdn-core-8.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v0CLt0NX016352 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 12 Jan 2017 21:55:00 GMT Received: from xch-rtp-004.cisco.com (64.101.220.144) by XCH-RTP-001.cisco.com (64.101.220.141) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1210.3; Thu, 12 Jan 2017 16:54:59 -0500 Received: from xch-rtp-004.cisco.com ([64.101.220.144]) by XCH-RTP-004.cisco.com ([64.101.220.144]) with mapi id 15.00.1210.000; Thu, 12 Jan 2017 16:54:59 -0500 From: "Cullen Jennings (fluffy)" To: Anton Tveretin Thread-Topic: [dispatch] NGMTP Class 9 Questions & Answers Thread-Index: AQHSbR6FRvPtosCklUilrzJwwA57eg== Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2017 21:54:59 +0000 Message-ID: References: <9603211483807916@web27h.yandex.ru> In-Reply-To: <9603211483807916@web27h.yandex.ru> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.20.249.164] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: DISPATCH list , "public-payments-wg@w3.org" Subject: Re: [dispatch] NGMTP Class 9 Questions & Answers X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2017 21:55:04 -0000 So the site you sent plays weird video advertisements and content that my c= orporate firewall marks as bad. Any chance you could just send an email to = the list or publish a draft.=20 Thanks > On Jan 7, 2017, at 9:51 AM, Anton Tveretin wrote: >=20 > Hello All, > I have published a small memo for the format of payment documents. This i= s not the actual specification. > Direct URL: http://www.fit-rulez.narod.ru/ngmtp/ngmtp_c9_qa.html > In the past, both work groups showed interest in these. > Regards, > Anton >=20 > _______________________________________________ > dispatch mailing list > dispatch@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dispatch From nobody Thu Jan 12 18:12:38 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 109EA1297DE for ; Thu, 12 Jan 2017 18:12:38 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.934 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.934 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pjY5WU4ggoN5 for ; Thu, 12 Jan 2017 18:12:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from resqmta-po-12v.sys.comcast.net (resqmta-po-12v.sys.comcast.net [IPv6:2001:558:fe16:19:96:114:154:171]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0FB481297CF for ; Thu, 12 Jan 2017 18:12:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from resomta-po-18v.sys.comcast.net ([96.114.154.242]) by resqmta-po-12v.sys.comcast.net with SMTP id RrLMcehpHn2TRRrM2cAD2g; Fri, 13 Jan 2017 02:12:34 +0000 Received: from hobgoblin.ariadne.com ([IPv6:2601:192:4603:9471:222:fbff:fe91:d396]) by resomta-po-18v.sys.comcast.net with SMTP id RrM1ce3Ww9HUeRrM2cdrMI; Fri, 13 Jan 2017 02:12:34 +0000 Received: from hobgoblin.ariadne.com (hobgoblin.ariadne.com [127.0.0.1]) by hobgoblin.ariadne.com (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id v0D2CXDg012343; Thu, 12 Jan 2017 21:12:33 -0500 Received: (from worley@localhost) by hobgoblin.ariadne.com (8.14.7/8.14.7/Submit) id v0D2CWPJ012340; Thu, 12 Jan 2017 21:12:32 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: hobgoblin.ariadne.com: worley set sender to worley@alum.mit.edu using -f From: worley@ariadne.com (Dale R. Worley) To: Paul Kyzivat In-Reply-To: <2ba6852d-aa93-7630-d24d-98f21865fc8b@comcast.net> (paul.kyzivat@comcast.net) Sender: worley@ariadne.com (Dale R. Worley) Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2017 21:12:32 -0500 Message-ID: <87lgufvhbj.fsf@hobgoblin.ariadne.com> X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfIditFQvRzOWxsj/kdYk1gdbMhdQ/IIThFS5DFZVZRiyCxhdHUqS+B9xfsqNXjgaaRIXxGAo/cRf1hXbRHwnBKuYTc+l+Mnfy1oGHQfkL4La9pgTnZqc YsbRkYOcgkB1VozddBnD8WWWEUfB2NMLgV9Bc87jlwSp4OuP/GGEUIxm27RGSLLj6KGGJD8JgcXxYqEP7eRISor+1iaUSM+k+Us= Archived-At: Cc: dispatch@ietf.org Subject: Re: [dispatch] Two week review: Progressing draft-mohali-dispatch-originating-cdiv-parameter as AD sponsored X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2017 02:12:38 -0000 Paul Kyzivat writes: >> sessioncase-param = ("sescase" EQUAL ("orig" / "term")) / "orig-cdiv" >> registration-state-param = "regstate" EQUAL ("unreg" / "reg") > > registration-state-param = "regstate" EQUAL ["un"] "reg" That's correct, but only slightly simpler. And I fear that people would mis-read it as allowing (or even requiring) regstate=un reg Are there other places we've done constructions like this? Dale From nobody Thu Jan 12 22:37:26 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C552E129AA4 for ; Thu, 12 Jan 2017 22:37:24 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-3.199, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=comcast.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VX3K9leYHKff for ; Thu, 12 Jan 2017 22:37:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from resqmta-ch2-02v.sys.comcast.net (resqmta-ch2-02v.sys.comcast.net [IPv6:2001:558:fe21:29:69:252:207:34]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 89780129AA0 for ; Thu, 12 Jan 2017 22:37:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from resomta-ch2-13v.sys.comcast.net ([69.252.207.109]) by resqmta-ch2-02v.sys.comcast.net with SMTP id RvUIcjrjn9XRkRvUIc5chS; Fri, 13 Jan 2017 06:37:22 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=comcast.net; s=q20161114; t=1484289442; bh=5S8+5traH9VAbToeAAkVlhPvIaXNjy29NxYnPIFFp9Q=; h=Received:Received:Subject:To:From:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version: Content-Type; b=cogbDnHy9jrXzndq3L6mN7g7X6Uc2cJqWHhwVXQz9xSDJjJtC2CEdybo85aqj2GbA cJySCw4SuoImmvdKRmprfYViEbQIrBu7poOb010kNE8T9Oh7sAFtxUlepzQL4plqtq FuiQlt9kPkrLT2azlPgUftZt8nHif7Y+QxcwhMDNcuHMTDQxge7/HIFwwkcK7KqTkq tYYTACiu0RKsM5ZQ1DPMbEaBqk8498PIFtTenw33bUlWxEJSvhU51j/AMk7036EwLx Jx0OolyEl/maYqFl7ZcjlQsfoAk+01djgg5pPPG6IspsCIphb8UPDafzAHzWFxBnO5 steLIE9Fd9DBA== Received: from [192.168.1.110] ([73.186.127.100]) by resomta-ch2-13v.sys.comcast.net with SMTP id RvUHczGMXmtGiRvUIc5aBL; Fri, 13 Jan 2017 06:37:22 +0000 To: "Dale R. Worley" References: <87lgufvhbj.fsf@hobgoblin.ariadne.com> From: Paul Kyzivat Message-ID: <70a4090a-5717-c35b-8099-900c24d5faad@comcast.net> Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2017 01:37:21 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <87lgufvhbj.fsf@hobgoblin.ariadne.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfJSV1R9NnjyVVhAyJ7N8u7q0NEv6yPb2oQDo9qRRdrxmE//3w1Ow/DcV1ct0x2eaCturHQKaMlF60DdKe9rgpeDZIkQRZmNlDdc2hRIomLz1sEOnYSMG ELXilCNSO58Rcp2NMWCpvNbLA/eJ0zsOf8U/GRqmwg3XkrH9Yi2LaGvMmxkBttVcwDPIsLiNuLogijO9VqAqQHLWyewT0MCkRw0= Archived-At: Cc: dispatch@ietf.org Subject: Re: [dispatch] Two week review: Progressing draft-mohali-dispatch-originating-cdiv-parameter as AD sponsored X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2017 06:37:25 -0000 On 1/12/17 9:12 PM, Dale R. Worley wrote: > Paul Kyzivat writes: >>> sessioncase-param = ("sescase" EQUAL ("orig" / "term")) / "orig-cdiv" >>> registration-state-param = "regstate" EQUAL ("unreg" / "reg") >> >> registration-state-param = "regstate" EQUAL ["un"] "reg" > > That's correct, but only slightly simpler. And I fear that people would > mis-read it as allowing (or even requiring) > > regstate=un reg > > Are there other places we've done constructions like this? I don't know. Clearly this is a matter of taste. Thanks, Paul From nobody Fri Jan 13 08:46:41 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 558E7129C69; Fri, 13 Jan 2017 08:46:38 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -17.721 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-17.721 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-3.199, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1wB1fibvY01O; Fri, 13 Jan 2017 08:46:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from alln-iport-1.cisco.com (alln-iport-1.cisco.com [173.37.142.88]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5D318129C5E; Fri, 13 Jan 2017 08:46:35 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=292; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1484325995; x=1485535595; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-id:content-transfer-encoding: mime-version; bh=HtvO2DU4wxRnmJt3hNNxs7c8NFd2eSGZWODpZE0h7XI=; b=Qyratb8eViRwt3pPyjIYxtkwP0vwWYcTahVpH3Q247T7CtSqMcczOvCm XdsVJyVXAycXJ65+PmG5ZscxRjXmd3eePMpBThp65cSMFsOrW4S5SOA+6 SBKNhBOTo3qfbKOLc54EYSxz2aN5rx3a8ca3e0EfD/dy+lGOD9pxU5q1Y g=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0DJAgAiBHlY/5hdJa1dGQEBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBBwEBAQEBgz8BAQEBAR+BaAefZ5Uqgg2GIgKCFEATAQIBAQEBAQEBYyiEaQE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQMBOj8FCwIBCBgeEDIlAgQOBYh7CLMkiXMBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEdiEeCX4RGhWQBBJsyAZFYgV8BF4UOiWiOUoQSASEBNYFEFUoBhh9zh1mBDQE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQ?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.33,222,1477958400"; d="scan'208";a="372423865" Received: from rcdn-core-1.cisco.com ([173.37.93.152]) by alln-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 13 Jan 2017 16:46:16 +0000 Received: from XCH-RTP-005.cisco.com (xch-rtp-005.cisco.com [64.101.220.145]) by rcdn-core-1.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v0DGkFPr023899 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 13 Jan 2017 16:46:15 GMT Received: from xch-rtp-004.cisco.com (64.101.220.144) by XCH-RTP-005.cisco.com (64.101.220.145) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1210.3; Fri, 13 Jan 2017 11:46:14 -0500 Received: from xch-rtp-004.cisco.com ([64.101.220.144]) by XCH-RTP-004.cisco.com ([64.101.220.144]) with mapi id 15.00.1210.000; Fri, 13 Jan 2017 11:46:14 -0500 From: "Cullen Jennings (fluffy)" To: Ben Campbell Thread-Topic: [dispatch] Review of draft-mohali-dispatch-cause-for-service-number-12 Thread-Index: AQHSbbyNxSaCOuhRskCPewugJtCnYA== Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2017 16:46:14 +0000 Message-ID: <65AAD523-48FB-41CA-A0E6-92323072027B@cisco.com> References: <148186064804.24550.3460112022117949321.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <9E288F8F-BD52-49D0-83B2-472F1B223127@nostrum.com> <67748928-2d86-58d7-0cff-919470b67815@nostrum.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.20.249.164] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <0FB1495F1C5CB6419992EFA1637B20E2@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: DISPATCH list , IETF Subject: Re: [dispatch] Review of draft-mohali-dispatch-cause-for-service-number-12 X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2017 16:46:38 -0000 > On Dec 20, 2016, at 4:49 PM, Ben Campbell wrote: >=20 >>=20 >> Hold your noses and let this go please. >=20 > In case it has been unclear from my other comments, this is my preference= as an individual as well. I can live with whatever you decide on this.=20 From nobody Fri Jan 13 13:47:25 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFEFB129E6E for ; Fri, 13 Jan 2017 13:47:23 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gVR4ugJOkkaf for ; Fri, 13 Jan 2017 13:47:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qt0-x236.google.com (mail-qt0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c0d::236]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7AD6A129C72 for ; Fri, 13 Jan 2017 13:47:21 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qt0-x236.google.com with SMTP id x49so59532319qtc.2 for ; Fri, 13 Jan 2017 13:47:21 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=YUfqtef/TOWE38upq5p1r1PApzlCTiERof1dZ4vI1LM=; b=MXMfF5jf/RVW4z3ySa9VfF1GBS1rGTLjeKA2DRmYFb3O+trSjFzIYGNu0r1neNSD76 Zqti3SGC0gEeoQC7wa3KQE716DuX+bgdR3H6X8wTEuLh5jmxiApec7Z/Nq7bPWqM8cqg k8tzf+iXgnfsAa9hn5FgqaqjlA5/eXL73lWQwtyUMbFAMB1W/DUWvm5uFgcBaHIPkgQ8 Dn1humBHayRbsnNObStf4CApWLr1u98VCgQ8bYtxXzo94mT7M457jfElQYHnJGXDnvaU cMj1pcm/5n5sTJ4Hxy4g9DGxr0WSxOscxLFQQqffQvppncKaKa8QQOe8/lbTqZ4XGLtP ARdw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=YUfqtef/TOWE38upq5p1r1PApzlCTiERof1dZ4vI1LM=; b=SWIetORecE/n5V5+sGg9GmvII0nUYzFDwhjcWq+eBvCVGPNzo4442RlA1Wt/HIQfYO wg1E8ojcghewaqaxD3jic/Z6zWoGmXtNMvYvA9LGO1j8usXrShCAQ2c4Zmds7atYV3ks VYeCPwodrMnXZYybl2cr0kwZYR6q+eg/QnOsUT3t00LFZOdUtDImnSaRNL9c5+zuv/DS Ag1jd9EwNbYWbtDml0cKNF3gtVPc0RSyJiWOK0lpWlVb/lE8h2bkObWjKPJh0OsDP86l Rvec8vsY27bi7a4AqACXcAkbHEc1ckKEPw7WkU4Z7uF/jgDDXgFnvofr2yiC4scDRwcc 5Erg== X-Gm-Message-State: AIkVDXJK8FZ5IuH3bryW/otqmdotDTi9gI3+m/G36Ol998AianuH69TFAEPdJtGj33amffZFBbCTgADLfLILRg== X-Received: by 10.237.50.229 with SMTP id z92mr13921229qtd.182.1484344040112; Fri, 13 Jan 2017 13:47:20 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.140.98.181 with HTTP; Fri, 13 Jan 2017 13:47:19 -0800 (PST) From: Mary Barnes Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2017 15:47:19 -0600 Message-ID: To: DISPATCH Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=94eb2c124a283c5016054600c798 Archived-At: Subject: [dispatch] Reminder: DISPATCH WG Deadlines for IETF-98 X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2017 21:47:24 -0000 --94eb2c124a283c5016054600c798 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi all, The DISPATCH WG wiki has been updated with the deadlines for IETF-98, with the first deadline being 4 weeks out for formal IETF BoF requests: https://trac.ietf.org/trac/dispatch/wiki The deadlines are summarized below: - February 10, 2017. Cutoff date for IETF BoF submissions. - February 19, 2017. Cutoff date to notify the chairs/DISPATCH WG of plans to submit a proposal. - February 26, 2017. Cutoff for charter proposals for topics. - March 5, 2017. Announcement of topics that have been dispatched for IETF-98. - March 19, 2017. Draft submission deadline. If you are submitting drafts, PLEASE include the -dispatch- in the draft name per the usual convention. Even if the document is agreed to be progressed in another WG, the wonderful tools allow you to link to the original draft. It makes it much easier when we are preparing for the meeting and updating the wiki. Regards, Mary --94eb2c124a283c5016054600c798 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi all,

The DISPATCH WG wiki has been u= pdated with the deadlines for IETF-98, with the first deadline being 4 week= s out for formal IETF BoF requests: =C2=A0https://trac.ietf.org/trac/dispatch/wiki
=

The deadlines are summarized below:
=
  • February 10, 2017. Cutoff date for IETF BoF submissions.
  • February 19, 2017. Cutoff = date to notify the chairs/DISPATCH WG of plans to submit a proposal.=
  • February 26, 2017. Cutoff = for charter proposals for topics.
  • March 5, 2017. Announcemen= t of topics that have been dispatched for IETF-98.
  • March 19, 2017. Draft subm= ission deadline.

If you are submitting drafts, PLEASE include= the -dispatch- in the draft name per the usual convention.=C2=A0 Even if t= he document is agreed to be progressed in another WG, the wonderful tools a= llow you to link to the original draft. =C2=A0 It makes it much easier when= we are preparing for the meeting and updating the wiki.

Regards,
Mary

--94eb2c124a283c5016054600c798-- From nobody Fri Jan 13 17:14:56 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB272129536 for ; Fri, 13 Jan 2017 17:14:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.934 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.934 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id S2X0zF-kZ4f6 for ; Fri, 13 Jan 2017 17:14:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from resqmta-ch2-08v.sys.comcast.net (resqmta-ch2-08v.sys.comcast.net [IPv6:2001:558:fe21:29:69:252:207:40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A265B1294FF for ; Fri, 13 Jan 2017 17:14:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from resomta-ch2-20v.sys.comcast.net ([69.252.207.116]) by resqmta-ch2-08v.sys.comcast.net with SMTP id SCvKcz3HvdT7bSCvkcVq3w; Sat, 14 Jan 2017 01:14:52 +0000 Received: from hobgoblin.ariadne.com ([IPv6:2601:192:4603:9471:222:fbff:fe91:d396]) by resomta-ch2-20v.sys.comcast.net with SMTP id SCvjcgLRWeSQaSCvkcCFWs; Sat, 14 Jan 2017 01:14:52 +0000 Received: from hobgoblin.ariadne.com (hobgoblin.ariadne.com [127.0.0.1]) by hobgoblin.ariadne.com (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id v0E1EpPT023294; Fri, 13 Jan 2017 20:14:51 -0500 Received: (from worley@localhost) by hobgoblin.ariadne.com (8.14.7/8.14.7/Submit) id v0E1EosN023289; Fri, 13 Jan 2017 20:14:51 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: hobgoblin.ariadne.com: worley set sender to worley@alum.mit.edu using -f From: worley@ariadne.com (Dale R. Worley) To: Paul Kyzivat In-Reply-To: <70a4090a-5717-c35b-8099-900c24d5faad@comcast.net> (paul.kyzivat@comcast.net) Sender: worley@ariadne.com (Dale R. Worley) Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2017 20:14:50 -0500 Message-ID: <87eg06tpbp.fsf@hobgoblin.ariadne.com> X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfE84/y+SpPk3a1KkdFlhlrlNdTopTaZyYXVq8VgM69PwtGntogiChdWRaVfP7j6QB426UqqCzarD3M/fGQym/0avJEufqUOcWYHCaOcDgpr3HrrRetVb 6UwC4CxZV0N299lkyUA7BLiTiX1fwaqyJqsDNPjswSBAl05WAS5zE5KzikE2dMMNUYshFsxewMwj1r62XBcZ9vxqys51QZogYJo= Archived-At: Cc: dispatch@ietf.org Subject: Re: [dispatch] Two week review: Progressing draft-mohali-dispatch-originating-cdiv-parameter as AD sponsored X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2017 01:14:55 -0000 Paul Kyzivat writes: >>> registration-state-param = "regstate" EQUAL ["un"] "reg" >> >> That's correct, but only slightly simpler. And I fear that people would >> mis-read it as allowing (or even requiring) >> >> regstate=un reg >> >> Are there other places we've done constructions like this? > > I don't know. > > Clearly this is a matter of taste. I tried to get some evidence regarding the styles that have been used in RFCs. grep '[^ ]" *[]] * "' rfc????.txt turns up a hundred or so situations where BNF has an optional string literal concatenated with a string literal. But in almost all of those, one of the strings is punctuation. To limit the situation to when two "identifier" string literals are adjacent, I did grep -i '[a-z]" *[][] * "[a-z]' rfc????.txt Most of those hits are some sort of e-mail filtering language where juxtaposition isn't concatenation. The remaining examples are: rfc1014.txt: [ "unsigned" ] "int" rfc1014.txt: | [ "unsigned" ] "hyper" rfc1832.txt: [ "unsigned" ] "int" rfc1832.txt: | [ "unsigned" ] "hyper" rfc4506.txt: [ "unsigned" ] "int" rfc4506.txt: | [ "unsigned" ] "hyper" which are versions of the XDR specification, and though the grammar doesn't state it very clearly, "unsigned" means a *token* not a *string*, etc., so the first line means that once the text has been tokenized, there is either "unsigned" followed by "int", or only "int". Dale From nobody Fri Jan 13 19:53:58 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 113B91293FE for ; Fri, 13 Jan 2017 19:53:57 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-3.199, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=comcast.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id n7f7-qHMMcfT for ; Fri, 13 Jan 2017 19:53:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from resqmta-po-03v.sys.comcast.net (resqmta-po-03v.sys.comcast.net [IPv6:2001:558:fe16:19:96:114:154:162]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5393D129452 for ; Fri, 13 Jan 2017 19:53:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from resomta-po-08v.sys.comcast.net ([96.114.154.232]) by resqmta-po-03v.sys.comcast.net with SMTP id SFOzc5B0DcKypSFPecjXw9; Sat, 14 Jan 2017 03:53:54 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=comcast.net; s=q20161114; t=1484366034; bh=Sy5lkXQR/jA9NfntRe4ePbi34wPYbVI7hfFmmRCZMYE=; h=Received:Received:Subject:To:From:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version: Content-Type; b=oVo7ZqwtUff56WrhSUMsHQXzQnwpOoarY0m3eIdMT9QMJQtbSYBXNtoi4yTKqrZYY f5PO6IrHtdoPzamcIOjjr8vCo8YjHEeyVV5KvsqwhzMAY0vDqZzi6vjbOb/6moHfLV k8936KwRNniGp1AXgA3MTuUYN2hJvSDmqjFVKI8UvrxbvHP5SBb61VyltURbY/lp3V 0smiJzq3JpbLftBCIkS/sgNqRbKfj2a/qQ9F4XMmdCPZcs8AZyj3Rj7uVMZIxafrhE eaHA4zkVvCbSXn41UdsEVZkFkqVNfs6qow2qKjjA7fkKsThUCllKFuLxXqv5SFgdLO 1Bdryr/3nmgEA== Received: from [192.168.1.110] ([73.186.127.100]) by resomta-po-08v.sys.comcast.net with SMTP id SFPdcaclHud4LSFPdc1KXD; Sat, 14 Jan 2017 03:53:54 +0000 To: dispatch@ietf.org References: <87eg06tpbp.fsf@hobgoblin.ariadne.com> From: Paul Kyzivat Message-ID: Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2017 22:53:53 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <87eg06tpbp.fsf@hobgoblin.ariadne.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dispatch] Two week review: Progressing draft-mohali-dispatch-originating-cdiv-parameter as AD sponsored X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2017 03:53:57 -0000 Interesting research. I don't know what to make of it. IMO it is merely a matter of which people find easiest to understand. I personally find them equally clear and easy, so I don't have much of an opinion one way or the other. But I don't have much sympathy for people who think the two mean something different. If they don't correctly understand what these mean then that is a problem. They will have many more problems understanding the rest of sip and sdp. ABNF is *not* difficult. If you can program in *any* language (including Javascript, XML, SQL) then should have no trouble with it. If you can't, then you also shouldn't be trying to interpret specs like this in detail. Thanks, Paul On 1/13/17 8:14 PM, Dale R. Worley wrote: > Paul Kyzivat writes: >>>> registration-state-param = "regstate" EQUAL ["un"] "reg" >>> >>> That's correct, but only slightly simpler. And I fear that people would >>> mis-read it as allowing (or even requiring) >>> >>> regstate=un reg >>> >>> Are there other places we've done constructions like this? >> >> I don't know. >> >> Clearly this is a matter of taste. > > I tried to get some evidence regarding the styles that have been used in > RFCs. > > grep '[^ ]" *[]] * "' rfc????.txt > > turns up a hundred or so situations where BNF has an optional string > literal concatenated with a string literal. But in almost all of those, > one of the strings is punctuation. > > To limit the situation to when two "identifier" string literals are > adjacent, I did > > grep -i '[a-z]" *[][] * "[a-z]' rfc????.txt > > Most of those hits are some sort of e-mail filtering language where > juxtaposition isn't concatenation. The remaining examples are: > > rfc1014.txt: [ "unsigned" ] "int" > rfc1014.txt: | [ "unsigned" ] "hyper" > rfc1832.txt: [ "unsigned" ] "int" > rfc1832.txt: | [ "unsigned" ] "hyper" > rfc4506.txt: [ "unsigned" ] "int" > rfc4506.txt: | [ "unsigned" ] "hyper" > > which are versions of the XDR specification, and though the grammar > doesn't state it very clearly, "unsigned" means a *token* not a > *string*, etc., so the first line means that once the text has been > tokenized, there is either "unsigned" followed by "int", or only "int". > > Dale > > _______________________________________________ > dispatch mailing list > dispatch@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dispatch > From nobody Thu Jan 19 07:00:10 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0FF5129602 for ; Thu, 19 Jan 2017 07:00:08 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7.498 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.498 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-3.199] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=telekom.de Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SAhP7iYVHpnJ for ; Thu, 19 Jan 2017 07:00:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailout24.telekom.de (MAILOUT24.telekom.de [80.149.113.254]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3BD73129463 for ; Thu, 19 Jan 2017 07:00:04 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=telekom.de; i=@telekom.de; q=dns/txt; s=dtag1; t=1484838005; x=1516374005; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version; bh=1MjBqCWOF8roHlboabNTI3O6tfRQ2EUHj6+HE3AraVM=; b=nmAi/fcINDFhvo7vsyu9praxuLOdL6eJFJma0SQc/twDEZK1QHnKjDy1 traF+kMZzQqjZqdL2fS2HCKYtJqRkozMnqGkgi4OIfkzaTATfdAcr4qNS +TtyMzsWD1CNrHhpk1fCtipHu/mLl8/bj+J/q6ixS6cOANd+b4+3BObVJ 4ltuBsFmUGD4HqZQDV/1XegjSA7b6ivcrTNhWNN8HuVFLWbIfaTwfEpYb voz4NCCeJA2PcjIIRJcr/76sBgVCl3eYAqSZHGzfwXtnOF6BRV5Kf1FHr dE6GWP3xv/f4UTeoKKPNKKwDwqzPAQ5sPFfWo3Uy6co9sYPGxDvcXQpr5 A==; Received: from q4de8ssaz61.gppng.telekom.de ([10.206.166.200]) by MAILOUT21.telekom.de with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA; 19 Jan 2017 16:00:01 +0100 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.33,254,1477954800"; d="jpg'145?scan'145,208,217,145";a="1106821036" Received: from he105829.emea1.cds.t-internal.com ([10.169.119.32]) by q4de8ssazdv.gppng.telekom.de with ESMTP/TLS/AES256-SHA; 19 Jan 2017 15:59:53 +0100 Received: from HE105828.EMEA1.cds.t-internal.com (10.169.119.31) by HE105829.emea1.cds.t-internal.com (10.169.119.32) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1236.3; Thu, 19 Jan 2017 15:59:48 +0100 Received: from HE105828.EMEA1.cds.t-internal.com ([fe80::753e:c05:6c77:b585]) by HE105828.emea1.cds.t-internal.com ([fe80::753e:c05:6c77:b585%26]) with mapi id 15.00.1236.000; Thu, 19 Jan 2017 15:59:47 +0100 From: To: Thread-Topic: new draft: draft-winterbottom-dispatch-locparam-02.txt Thread-Index: AdJyZKwydZ5w95xgRXyhcWS+jzq62g== Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2017 14:59:47 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: de-DE, en-US Content-Language: de-DE X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.213.124.125] Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="_004_cc86e8f470c54650bf019371da3d5437HE105828emea1cdstintern_"; type="multipart/alternative" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: [dispatch] new draft: draft-winterbottom-dispatch-locparam-02.txt X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2017 15:00:08 -0000 --_004_cc86e8f470c54650bf019371da3d5437HE105828emea1cdstintern_ Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_cc86e8f470c54650bf019371da3d5437HE105828emea1cdstintern_" --_000_cc86e8f470c54650bf019371da3d5437HE105828emea1cdstintern_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear all, now I have taken the task to proceed with James draft on the "Location Sour= ce Parameter for the SIP Geolocation". This is needed to support ETSI the work as part of their M/493 stage-3 docu= ment. They would like to finalize their work mid of 2017. https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-winterbottom-dispatch-locparam-02 There was one comment on the list: https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/di= spatch/current/msg06193.html which I have addressed within the new draft. Thank you and Best Regards Roland Mit freundlichen Gr=FC=DFen Roland Jesske Deutsche Telekom Technik GmbH Fixed Mobile Engineering Deutschland Roland Jesske FMED93-5 Heinrich-Hertz-Stra=DFe 3-7, 64295 Darmstadt +49 6151 58-12766 (Tel.) +49 6151 58-13395 (Fax) +49 171 8618-445 (Mobil) http://www.telekom.com Erleben, was verbindet. [cid:image001.png@01CFD71F.3CB1D880] Pflichtangaben gem=E4=DF =A7 35 a GmbHG www.telekom.de/pflichtangaben-dttechnik Gro=DFe Ver=E4nderungen fangen klein an - Ressourcen schonen und nicht jede= E-Mail drucken. --_000_cc86e8f470c54650bf019371da3d5437HE105828emea1cdstintern_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear all,
now I have taken the task to proceed with James draft on the “Lo= cation Source Parameter for the SIP Geolocation”. 
This is needed to support ETSI the work as part of their M/493 stage-3= document. They would like to finalize their work mid of 2017.
 
 
There was one comment on the list: https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/dispatch/current/msg06193.html&nb= sp; which I have addressed within the new draft.
 
Thank you and Best Regards
 
Roland
 
 
Mit freundlichen Gr= =FC=DFen
 <= /div>
Roland Jesske<= /font>
Deutsche Telekom Technik GmbH
Fixed Mobile Engineering Deutschland
Roland Jesske
FMED93-5
Heinrich-Hertz-Stra=DFe 3-7, 64295 Darmstadt
+49 6151 58-12766 (Tel.)
+49 6151 58-13395 (Fax)
+49 171 8618-445 (Mobil)
http://www.telek= om.com
 
Erleben, was verbin= det. 
 


Pflich= tangaben gem=E4=DF =A7 35 a GmbHG
<= b>www.telekom.de/pflichtangaben-dttechnik
Gro=DFe Ver=E4nderungen fangen klein an – Ressourcen schonen und nicht jede E-Mail dr= ucken.
 
 
 
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BfcyhSC524GcYXoDyckDJ4z0GE7GTt0H0UUUhBRRRQB//9k= --_004_cc86e8f470c54650bf019371da3d5437HE105828emea1cdstintern_-- From nobody Thu Jan 19 10:55:52 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dispatch@ietf.org Delivered-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3AD06129512; Thu, 19 Jan 2017 10:55:50 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "\"IETF Meeting Session Request Tool\"" To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.40.3 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <148485215023.10320.10768776174471858593.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2017 10:55:50 -0800 Archived-At: Cc: ben@nostrum.com, dispatch@ietf.org, fluffy@iii.ca, dispatch-chairs@ietf.org Subject: [dispatch] dispatch - New Meeting Session Request for IETF 98 X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2017 18:55:50 -0000 A new meeting session request has just been submitted by Cullen Jennings, a Chair of the dispatch working group. --------------------------------------------------------- Working Group Name: Dispatch Area Name: Applications and Real-Time Area Session Requester: Cullen Jennings Number of Sessions: 1 Length of Session(s): 1.5 Hours Number of Attendees: 100 Conflicts to Avoid: First Priority: appsawg core clue bfcpbis avtext avtcore apparea dbound ecrit insipid mmusic netvc payload rmcat rtcweb sipcore stir stox straw webpush xrblock Second Priority: tram tsvwg tsvarea opsarea lmap Special Requests: Please schedule in the 1st slot on Monday morning, list the meeting as coupled with ARTAREA, and avoid the same kind of conflicts with other area meetings and any Bofs and potential new ART WGs. --------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Fri Jan 27 09:15:42 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69C651296A8; Fri, 27 Jan 2017 09:15:28 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.818 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.818 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-3.199, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QEUedJXk7Kxi; Fri, 27 Jan 2017 09:15:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from relais-inet.orange.com (mta134.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.70.34]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DAAE312969C; Fri, 27 Jan 2017 09:15:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from opfednr00.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.64]) by opfednr27.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 36EFEA079E; Fri, 27 Jan 2017 18:15:25 +0100 (CET) Received: from Exchangemail-eme2.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.31.19]) by opfednr00.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id EFF8A1A0077; Fri, 27 Jan 2017 18:15:24 +0100 (CET) Received: from OPEXCLILMA4.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::65de:2f08:41e6:ebbe]) by OPEXCLILM44.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::b08d:5b75:e92c:a45f%18]) with mapi id 14.03.0319.002; Fri, 27 Jan 2017 18:15:24 +0100 From: To: Joel Halpern , "gen-art@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Review of draft-mohali-dispatch-cause-for-service-number-12 Thread-Index: AQHSV1CHvHTQY58KVkSYsqTpbOYMOaFM0nZA Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2017 17:15:24 +0000 Message-ID: <24963_1485537325_588B802D_24963_968_1_8B970F90C584EA4E97D5BAAC9172DBB81C8C6DE3@OPEXCLILMA4.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <148186064804.24550.3460112022117949321.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <148186064804.24550.3460112022117949321.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.168.234.1] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "dispatch@ietf.org" , "ietf@ietf.org" , "draft-mohali-dispatch-cause-for-service-number.all@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [dispatch] Review of draft-mohali-dispatch-cause-for-service-number-12 X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2017 17:15:28 -0000 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dGVjdGVkIGJ5IGxhdzsKdGhleSBzaG91bGQgbm90IGJlIGRpc3RyaWJ1dGVkLCB1c2VkIG9yIGNv cGllZCB3aXRob3V0IGF1dGhvcmlzYXRpb24uCklmIHlvdSBoYXZlIHJlY2VpdmVkIHRoaXMgZW1h aWwgaW4gZXJyb3IsIHBsZWFzZSBub3RpZnkgdGhlIHNlbmRlciBhbmQgZGVsZXRlIHRoaXMgbWVz c2FnZSBhbmQgaXRzIGF0dGFjaG1lbnRzLgpBcyBlbWFpbHMgbWF5IGJlIGFsdGVyZWQsIE9yYW5n ZSBpcyBub3QgbGlhYmxlIGZvciBtZXNzYWdlcyB0aGF0IGhhdmUgYmVlbiBtb2RpZmllZCwgY2hh bmdlZCBvciBmYWxzaWZpZWQuClRoYW5rIHlvdS4KCg== From nobody Fri Jan 27 12:17:48 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3F5512986F; Fri, 27 Jan 2017 12:17:39 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-3.199] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4zhtqG4M05FR; Fri, 27 Jan 2017 12:17:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3320F129602; Fri, 27 Jan 2017 12:17:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.0.1.39] (cpe-66-25-7-22.tx.res.rr.com [66.25.7.22]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id v0RKHaVM018787 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Fri, 27 Jan 2017 14:17:37 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from ben@nostrum.com) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host cpe-66-25-7-22.tx.res.rr.com [66.25.7.22] claimed to be [10.0.1.39] From: "Ben Campbell" To: marianne.mohali@orange.com Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2017 14:17:36 -0600 Message-ID: <9FFD25ED-6781-47D2-8231-CFBFC2A10920@nostrum.com> In-Reply-To: <24963_1485537325_588B802D_24963_968_1_8B970F90C584EA4E97D5BAAC9172DBB81C8C6DE3@OPEXCLILMA4.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <148186064804.24550.3460112022117949321.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <24963_1485537325_588B802D_24963_968_1_8B970F90C584EA4E97D5BAAC9172DBB81C8C6DE3@OPEXCLILMA4.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: MailMate (1.9.6r5319) Archived-At: Cc: "dispatch@ietf.org" , "gen-art@ietf.org" , Joel Halpern , "ietf@ietf.org" , "draft-mohali-dispatch-cause-for-service-number.all@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [dispatch] Review of draft-mohali-dispatch-cause-for-service-number-12 X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2017 20:17:40 -0000 On 27 Jan 2017, at 11:15, marianne.mohali@orange.com wrote: > Hi Joel, > > I have submitted a new version (v-13) of the draft. > I have addressed your comment for IPv6 addresses format in the = > example. > Concerning your major comment, the discussion is leaded by Ben. To that point: Please note that version 13 adds a comment to the end of = the introduction to make it clear that this draft documents something = that another group (3GPP) does. It is not an IETF standard. Thanks! Ben. > > I hope I have correctly address your comment. > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-mohali-dispatch-cause-for-servic= e-number/ > > Best regards, > Marianne > >> -----Message d'origine----- >> De=C2=A0: Joel Halpern [mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com] >> Envoy=C3=A9=C2=A0: vendredi 16 d=C3=A9cembre 2016 04:57 >> =C3=80=C2=A0: gen-art@ietf.org >> Cc=C2=A0: ietf@ietf.org; draft-mohali-dispatch-cause-for-service- >> number.all@ietf.org; dispatch@ietf.org >> Objet=C2=A0: Review of draft-mohali-dispatch-cause-for-service-number-= 12 >> >> Reviewer: Joel Halpern >> Review result: Ready with Issues >> >> Major: >> This document defines a new code for use in SIP, and specifies = >> new behavior >> both for the code itself and for its use in history-info. I am thus = >> confused as to >> how this can be an informational RFC. It looks like it either = >> Proposed Standard >> or experimental. Yes, I see that RFC 4458, which this updates is = >> Informational. >> But just because we did it wrong before does not make that behavior = >> correct >> now. In addition to my understanding of the roles of different RFCs, = >> I note that >> RFC 3969 and the IANA registry both state that this assignment must = >> be made >> by a standards track RFC. >> >> Minor: >> Given our emphasis on IPv6 over IPv4, would it not make sense for = >> the >> examples to use IPv6 addresses? (Inspired by the Id-Nits alert.) > > > _______________________________________________________________________= __________________________________________________ > > Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations = > confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc > pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez = > recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler > a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les = > messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, > Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, = > deforme ou falsifie. Merci. > > This message and its attachments may contain confidential or = > privileged information that may be protected by law; > they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. > If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and = > delete this message and its attachments. > As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have = > been modified, changed or falsified. > Thank you. 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with ESMTPSA id 7A4C51C0487; Fri, 27 Jan 2017 15:01:09 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2017 17:01:05 -0600 Message-ID: Importance: normal From: "jmh.direct" To: Ben Campbell , marianne.mohali@orange.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--_com.samsung.android.email_2249831801890" Archived-At: Cc: "dispatch@ietf.org" , "gen-art@ietf.org" , Joel Halpern , "ietf@ietf.org" , "draft-mohali-dispatch-cause-for-service-number.all@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [dispatch] Review of draft-mohali-dispatch-cause-for-service-number-12 X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2017 23:01:12 -0000 ----_com.samsung.android.email_2249831801890 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 VGhhbmsgeW91LlRoYXQgc2VlbXMgYSByZWFzb25hYmxlIGNvbXByb21pc2UgYW1vbmcgdGhlIGNv 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