From nobody Tue Jul 4 01:25:19 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2037A131B08 for ; Tue, 4 Jul 2017 01:25:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.222 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.222 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7z4yF1K5WszL for ; Tue, 4 Jul 2017 01:25:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C4073131B07 for ; Tue, 4 Jul 2017 01:25:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO LHREML714-CAH.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DQJ30234; Tue, 04 Jul 2017 08:25:13 +0000 (GMT) Received: from NKGEML411-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.70) by LHREML714-CAH.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.37) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Tue, 4 Jul 2017 09:24:31 +0100 Received: from NKGEML513-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.25]) by nkgeml411-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.70]) with mapi id 14.03.0235.001; Tue, 4 Jul 2017 16:24:27 +0800 From: "Huangyihong (Rachel)" To: DISPATCH Thread-Topic: New Version Notification for draft-huang-dispatch-hybrid-video-delivery-00.txt Thread-Index: AQHS8+Payt8IzxO9hk2Y5e32BsKNgKJDQ75A Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2017 08:24:27 +0000 Message-ID: <51E6A56BD6A85142B9D172C87FC3ABBB9C4CEC9B@nkgeml513-mbx.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.134.153.152] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A020206.595B50EA.0021, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.1.25, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: 1d203b30f707a08e73d9eb52351c7e2b Archived-At: Subject: [dispatch] fwd: New Version Notification for draft-huang-dispatch-hybrid-video-delivery-00.txt X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2017 08:25:18 -0000 SGksDQoNClRoaXMgZHJhZnQgd2FzIHBvc3RlZCB5ZXN0ZXJkYXkuIEl0IGRpc2N1c3NlZCB0aGUg ZGlmZmVyZW50IHRlY2hub2xvZ2llcyBvZiBkZWxpdmVyeSB2aWRlbyBzZXJ2aWNlcywgYW5kIHRo ZSBpbXBhY3Qgb2YgdGhlIGRpdmVyc2l0eSBpbiBhIGh5YnJpZCBuZXR3b3JrLiBGZWVkYmFja3Mg YXJlIHdlbGNvbWUuDQoNCkJSLA0KUmFjaGVsDQoNCi0tLS0t6YKu5Lu25Y6f5Lu2LS0tLS0NCuWP keS7tuS6ujogaW50ZXJuZXQtZHJhZnRzQGlldGYub3JnIFttYWlsdG86aW50ZXJuZXQtZHJhZnRz QGlldGYub3JnXSANCuWPkemAgeaXtumXtDogMjAxN+W5tDfmnIgz5pelIDE4OjA1DQrmlLbku7bk uro6IEh1YW5neWlob25nIChSYWNoZWwpOyBaaGVuZ2h1aSAoTWFydmluKTsgUm9uaSBFdmVuDQrk uLvpopg6IE5ldyBWZXJzaW9uIE5vdGlmaWNhdGlvbiBmb3IgZHJhZnQtaHVhbmctZGlzcGF0Y2gt aHlicmlkLXZpZGVvLWRlbGl2ZXJ5LTAwLnR4dA0KDQoNCkEgbmV3IHZlcnNpb24gb2YgSS1ELCBk cmFmdC1odWFuZy1kaXNwYXRjaC1oeWJyaWQtdmlkZW8tZGVsaXZlcnktMDAudHh0DQpoYXMgYmVl biBzdWNjZXNzZnVsbHkgc3VibWl0dGVkIGJ5IEh1aSBaaGVuZyBhbmQgcG9zdGVkIHRvIHRoZSBJ RVRGIHJlcG9zaXRvcnkuDQoNCk5hbWU6CQlkcmFmdC1odWFuZy1kaXNwYXRjaC1oeWJyaWQtdmlk ZW8tZGVsaXZlcnkNClJldmlzaW9uOgkwMA0KVGl0bGU6CQlWaWRlbyBEZWxpdmVyeSBpbiBIeWJy aWQgTmV0d29yaw0KRG9jdW1lbnQgZGF0ZToJMjAxNy0wNy0wMw0KR3JvdXA6CQlJbmRpdmlkdWFs IFN1Ym1pc3Npb24NClBhZ2VzOgkJNg0KVVJMOiAgICAgICAgICAgIGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYu b3JnL2ludGVybmV0LWRyYWZ0cy9kcmFmdC1odWFuZy1kaXNwYXRjaC1oeWJyaWQtdmlkZW8tZGVs aXZlcnktMDAudHh0DQpTdGF0dXM6ICAgICAgICAgaHR0cHM6Ly9kYXRhdHJhY2tlci5pZXRmLm9y Zy9kb2MvZHJhZnQtaHVhbmctZGlzcGF0Y2gtaHlicmlkLXZpZGVvLWRlbGl2ZXJ5Lw0KSHRtbGl6 ZWQ6ICAgICAgIGh0dHBzOi8vdG9vbHMuaWV0Zi5vcmcvaHRtbC9kcmFmdC1odWFuZy1kaXNwYXRj aC1oeWJyaWQtdmlkZW8tZGVsaXZlcnktMDANCkh0bWxpemVkOiAgICAgICBodHRwczovL2RhdGF0 cmFja2VyLmlldGYub3JnL2RvYy9odG1sL2RyYWZ0LWh1YW5nLWRpc3BhdGNoLWh5YnJpZC12aWRl by1kZWxpdmVyeS0wMA0KDQoNCkFic3RyYWN0Og0KICAgVGhlIGluZHVzdHJ5IHRyZW5kIG9mIGRl bGl2ZXJpbmcgdmlkZW8gc2VydmljZSBpcyBtb3ZpbmcgdG93YXJkcyBhbGwNCiAgIElQIHNvbHV0 aW9ucy4gIEhvd2V2ZXIsIHRoZXJlIGV4aXQgbXVsdGlwbGUgaW5jb21wYXRpYmxlIHBsYXRmb3Jt cw0KICAgZm9yIHZpZGVvIGRpc3RyaWJ1dGlvbi4gIFRoaXMgZG9jdW1lbnQgZXhwbG9yZXMgdGhl IGV4aXN0aW5nIHZpZGVvDQogICBkZWxpdmVyeSB0ZWNobm9sb2dpZXMgYW5kIGFuYWx5c2VzIHRo ZSBjaGFsbGVuZ2VzIG9mIHVuaWZ5aW5nIHRob3NlDQogICB0ZWNobm9sb2dpZXMuDQoNCiAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICANCg0KDQpQbGVhc2Ugbm90ZSB0aGF0IGl0IG1heSB0YWtlIGEg Y291cGxlIG9mIG1pbnV0ZXMgZnJvbSB0aGUgdGltZSBvZiBzdWJtaXNzaW9uIHVudGlsIHRoZSBo dG1saXplZCB2ZXJzaW9uIGFuZCBkaWZmIGFyZSBhdmFpbGFibGUgYXQgdG9vbHMuaWV0Zi5vcmcu DQoNClRoZSBJRVRGIFNlY3JldGFyaWF0DQoNCg== From nobody Wed Jul 5 09:59:14 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09CDB131CC1 for ; Wed, 5 Jul 2017 09:59:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.8, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id a_dsCACsN_Mg for ; Wed, 5 Jul 2017 09:59:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp64.iad3a.emailsrvr.com (smtp64.iad3a.emailsrvr.com [173.203.187.64]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3F7EC131D7B for ; Wed, 5 Jul 2017 09:59:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp25.relay.iad3a.emailsrvr.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp25.relay.iad3a.emailsrvr.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 5AFCD2589A for ; Wed, 5 Jul 2017 12:59:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Auth-ID: fluffy@iii.ca Received: by smtp25.relay.iad3a.emailsrvr.com (Authenticated sender: fluffy-AT-iii.ca) with ESMTPSA id 47EDC254F7 for ; 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[128.107.241.188]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA) by 0.0.0.0:587 (trex/5.7.12); Wed, 05 Jul 2017 12:59:08 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) From: Cullen Jennings In-Reply-To: <51E6A56BD6A85142B9D172C87FC3ABBB9C4CEC9B@nkgeml513-mbx.china.huawei.com> Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2017 12:58:31 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <63522D4C-9B46-4FB0-9C37-FE2CA205A51A@iii.ca> References: <51E6A56BD6A85142B9D172C87FC3ABBB9C4CEC9B@nkgeml513-mbx.china.huawei.com> To: DISPATCH X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dispatch] New Version Notification for draft-huang-dispatch-hybrid-video-delivery-00.txt X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2017 16:59:13 -0000 One thing that would be interesting to understand is do we have interest = from the both the folks that deploy file mode and the folks that deploy = packet mode in using a common solution if we made one ? > On Jul 4, 2017, at 4:24 AM, Huangyihong (Rachel) = wrote: >=20 > Hi, >=20 > This draft was posted yesterday. It discussed the different = technologies of delivery video services, and the impact of the diversity = in a hybrid network. Feedbacks are welcome. >=20 > BR, > Rachel >=20 > -----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6----- > =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: internet-drafts@ietf.org = [mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org]=20 > =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2017=E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=883=E6=97=A5 = 18:05 > =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Huangyihong (Rachel); Zhenghui (Marvin); = Roni Even > =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: New Version Notification for = draft-huang-dispatch-hybrid-video-delivery-00.txt >=20 >=20 > A new version of I-D, = draft-huang-dispatch-hybrid-video-delivery-00.txt > has been successfully submitted by Hui Zheng and posted to the IETF = repository. >=20 > Name: draft-huang-dispatch-hybrid-video-delivery > Revision: 00 > Title: Video Delivery in Hybrid Network > Document date: 2017-07-03 > Group: Individual Submission > Pages: 6 > URL: = https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-huang-dispatch-hybrid-video-del= ivery-00.txt > Status: = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-huang-dispatch-hybrid-video-deliver= y/ > Htmlized: = https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-huang-dispatch-hybrid-video-delivery-00 > Htmlized: = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-huang-dispatch-hybrid-video-de= livery-00 >=20 >=20 > Abstract: > The industry trend of delivering video service is moving towards all > IP solutions. However, there exit multiple incompatible platforms > for video distribution. This document explores the existing video > delivery technologies and analyses the challenges of unifying those > technologies. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of = submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at = tools.ietf.org. >=20 > The IETF Secretariat >=20 > _______________________________________________ > dispatch mailing list > dispatch@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dispatch From nobody Wed Jul 5 12:12:28 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E37612EC21 for ; Wed, 5 Jul 2017 12:12:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.42 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.42 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RCVD_IN_SORBS_SPAM=0.5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id v-buRPoQffvw for ; Wed, 5 Jul 2017 12:12:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.apache.org (hermes.apache.org [140.211.11.3]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 62D481205F0 for ; Wed, 5 Jul 2017 12:12:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 95918 invoked by uid 99); 5 Jul 2017 19:12:23 -0000 Received: from mail-relay.apache.org (HELO mail-relay.apache.org) (140.211.11.15) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Wed, 05 Jul 2017 19:12:23 +0000 Received: from mail-it0-f46.google.com (mail-it0-f46.google.com [209.85.214.46]) by mail-relay.apache.org (ASF Mail Server at mail-relay.apache.org) with ESMTPSA id E48431A060E for ; Wed, 5 Jul 2017 19:12:22 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-it0-f46.google.com with SMTP id m68so121295560ith.1 for ; Wed, 05 Jul 2017 12:12:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Gm-Message-State: AIVw112sY7GFYjzsk4LE7aIlB31FO8uQ1cDV0yvlAAa2iF1j5mj1hgaj ZVelg11tC3tYfq1YqPAsYabQKf2Wcw== X-Received: by 10.36.228.142 with SMTP id o136mr18981689ith.71.1499281942390; Wed, 05 Jul 2017 12:12:22 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <51E6A56BD6A85142B9D172C87FC3ABBB9C4CEC9B@nkgeml513-mbx.china.huawei.com> <63522D4C-9B46-4FB0-9C37-FE2CA205A51A@iii.ca> In-Reply-To: <63522D4C-9B46-4FB0-9C37-FE2CA205A51A@iii.ca> From: Phil Sorber Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2017 19:12:11 +0000 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: Cullen Jennings , DISPATCH Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="94eb2c1102e6985dd4055396c72d" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dispatch] New Version Notification for draft-huang-dispatch-hybrid-video-delivery-00.txt X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2017 19:12:26 -0000 --94eb2c1102e6985dd4055396c72d Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I would at least be interested in hearing more about this. Just to clarify, this is meant to be a problem statement for a WG forming BoF or similar and not a standalone document, correct? On Wed, Jul 5, 2017 at 10:59 AM Cullen Jennings wrote: > > One thing that would be interesting to understand is do we have interest > from the both the folks that deploy file mode and the folks that deploy > packet mode in using a common solution if we made one ? > > > > On Jul 4, 2017, at 4:24 AM, Huangyihong (Rachel) < > rachel.huang@huawei.com> wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > This draft was posted yesterday. It discussed the different technologie= s > of delivery video services, and the impact of the diversity in a hybrid > network. Feedbacks are welcome. > > > > BR, > > Rachel > > > > -----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6----- > > =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: internet-drafts@ietf.org [mailto:internet-= drafts@ietf.org] > > =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2017=E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=883=E6=97=A5= 18:05 > > =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Huangyihong (Rachel); Zhenghui (Marvin); R= oni Even > > =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: New Version Notification for > draft-huang-dispatch-hybrid-video-delivery-00.txt > > > > > > A new version of I-D, draft-huang-dispatch-hybrid-video-delivery-00.txt > > has been successfully submitted by Hui Zheng and posted to the IETF > repository. > > > > Name: draft-huang-dispatch-hybrid-video-delivery > > Revision: 00 > > Title: Video Delivery in Hybrid Network > > Document date: 2017-07-03 > > Group: Individual Submission > > Pages: 6 > > URL: > https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-huang-dispatch-hybrid-video-de= livery-00.txt > > Status: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-huang-dispatch-hybrid-video-delive= ry/ > > Htmlized: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-huang-dispatch-hybrid-video-delivery-00 > > Htmlized: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-huang-dispatch-hybrid-video-d= elivery-00 > > > > > > Abstract: > > The industry trend of delivering video service is moving towards all > > IP solutions. However, there exit multiple incompatible platforms > > for video distribution. This document explores the existing video > > delivery technologies and analyses the challenges of unifying those > > technologies. > > > > > > > > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at > tools.ietf.org. > > > > The IETF Secretariat > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dispatch mailing list > > dispatch@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dispatch > > _______________________________________________ > dispatch mailing list > dispatch@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dispatch > --94eb2c1102e6985dd4055396c72d Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I would at least be interested in hearing more about this.= Just to clarify, this is meant to be a problem statement for a WG forming = BoF or similar and not a standalone document, correct?

On Wed, Jul 5, 2017 at 10:59 AM Cullen = Jennings <fluffy@iii.ca> wrote:<= br>

One thing that would be interesting to understand is do we have interest=C2= =A0 from the both the folks that deploy file mode and the folks that deploy= packet mode in using a common solution if we made one ?


> On Jul 4, 2017, at 4:24 AM, Huangyihong (Rachel) <rachel.huang@huawei.com>= wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> This draft was posted yesterday. It discussed the different technologi= es of delivery video services, and the impact of the diversity in a hybrid = network. Feedbacks are welcome.
>
> BR,
> Rachel
>
> -----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6-----
> =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: internet-drafts@ietf.org [mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org]<= br> > =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2017=E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=883=E6=97= =A5 18:05
> =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Huangyihong (Rachel); Zhenghui (Marvin); = Roni Even
> =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: New Version Notification for draft-huang-dispatch-= hybrid-video-delivery-00.txt
>
>
> A new version of I-D, draft-huang-dispatch-hybrid-video-delivery-00.tx= t
> has been successfully submitted by Hui Zheng and posted to the IETF re= pository.
>
> Name:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0draft-huang-dispatch-hybrid-vid= eo-delivery
> Revision:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A000
> Title:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Video De= livery in Hybrid Network
> Document date:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 2017-07-03
> Group:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Individu= al Submission
> Pages:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 6
> URL:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/d= raft-huang-dispatch-hybrid-video-delivery-00.txt
> Status:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-huang-dispatch= -hybrid-video-delivery/
> Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-huang-dispatch-hybrid-video= -delivery-00
> Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-huang-d= ispatch-hybrid-video-delivery-00
>
>
> Abstract:
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0The industry trend of delivering video service is moving t= owards all
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0IP solutions.=C2=A0 However, there exit multiple incompati= ble platforms
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0for video distribution.=C2=A0 This document explores the e= xisting video
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0delivery technologies and analyses the challenges of unify= ing those
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0technologies.
>
>
>
>
> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of subm= ission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.=
>
> The IETF Secretariat
>
> _______________________________________________
> dispatch mailing list
> dispatch@ietf.o= rg
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dispatch

_______________________________________________
dispatch mailing list
dispatch@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dispatch
--94eb2c1102e6985dd4055396c72d-- From nobody Wed Jul 5 19:44:08 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9116B129B6A for ; Wed, 5 Jul 2017 19:44:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.221 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.221 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ROhYUctN-YdO for ; Wed, 5 Jul 2017 19:44:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 23E55129B67 for ; Wed, 5 Jul 2017 19:44:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml702-cah.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DJV20377; Thu, 06 Jul 2017 02:44:00 +0000 (GMT) Received: from NKGEML413-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.74) by lhreml702-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.43) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Thu, 6 Jul 2017 03:43:59 +0100 Received: from NKGEML513-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.25]) by NKGEML413-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.74]) with mapi id 14.03.0235.001; Thu, 6 Jul 2017 10:43:48 +0800 From: "Huangyihong (Rachel)" To: Phil Sorber , Cullen Jennings , DISPATCH Thread-Topic: [dispatch] New Version Notification for draft-huang-dispatch-hybrid-video-delivery-00.txt Thread-Index: AQHS8+Payt8IzxO9hk2Y5e32BsKNgKJDQ75AgAGuOoCAACVYgIAA/7MQ Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2017 02:43:48 +0000 Message-ID: <51E6A56BD6A85142B9D172C87FC3ABBB9C4CF39B@nkgeml513-mbx.china.huawei.com> References: <51E6A56BD6A85142B9D172C87FC3ABBB9C4CEC9B@nkgeml513-mbx.china.huawei.com> <63522D4C-9B46-4FB0-9C37-FE2CA205A51A@iii.ca> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.134.153.152] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_51E6A56BD6A85142B9D172C87FC3ABBB9C4CF39Bnkgeml513mbxchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A0B0206.595DA3F0.0095, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.1.25, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: 5e96c45192b3337e93eb2461cd7d13a3 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dispatch] New Version Notification for draft-huang-dispatch-hybrid-video-delivery-00.txt X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List 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[127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xd_nOrtA93cw for ; Wed, 5 Jul 2017 19:57:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.apache.org (hermes.apache.org [140.211.11.3]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id AAA82129AB7 for ; Wed, 5 Jul 2017 19:57:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 89244 invoked by uid 99); 6 Jul 2017 02:57:53 -0000 Received: from mail-relay.apache.org (HELO mail-relay.apache.org) (140.211.11.15) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Thu, 06 Jul 2017 02:57:53 +0000 Received: from mail-it0-f48.google.com (mail-it0-f48.google.com [209.85.214.48]) by mail-relay.apache.org (ASF Mail Server at mail-relay.apache.org) with ESMTPSA id 816CF1A00C5 for ; Thu, 6 Jul 2017 02:57:53 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-it0-f48.google.com with SMTP id m84so104692053ita.0 for ; Wed, 05 Jul 2017 19:57:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Gm-Message-State: AKS2vOwu93Ij+5/QSbQmiQCsgNzB2HSz1bju/g0O7065dYDl9KCR8zSw Pabqyb1GTTEy/EtgHf8y9bnrYRVRmw== X-Received: by 10.36.18.74 with SMTP id 71mr42657992itp.71.1499309872873; Wed, 05 Jul 2017 19:57:52 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <51E6A56BD6A85142B9D172C87FC3ABBB9C4CEC9B@nkgeml513-mbx.china.huawei.com> <63522D4C-9B46-4FB0-9C37-FE2CA205A51A@iii.ca> <51E6A56BD6A85142B9D172C87FC3ABBB9C4CF39B@nkgeml513-mbx.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <51E6A56BD6A85142B9D172C87FC3ABBB9C4CF39B@nkgeml513-mbx.china.huawei.com> From: Phil Sorber Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2017 02:57:42 +0000 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: "Huangyihong (Rachel)" , Cullen Jennings , DISPATCH Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a114497fc618dbc05539d48ec" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dispatch] New Version Notification for draft-huang-dispatch-hybrid-video-delivery-00.txt X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2017 02:57:57 -0000 --001a114497fc618dbc05539d48ec Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm interested in your side meeting. I'm part of a team that works on a CDN for IP video delivery. Both Linear and VOD. Currently doing pull and would like to add push. Thanks. On Wed, Jul 5, 2017 at 8:44 PM Huangyihong (Rachel) wrote: > No, it=E2=80=99s just for an open discussion. It=E2=80=99s too early in a= stage to propose > a WG or similar. The intention of this draft is to get the feedback from > IETF on this topic if they think we should solve the problem or not. If > people are interested in this, probably we may have a side meeting to > discuss it more and exchange ideas. > > > > BR, > > Rachel > > > > *=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA:* dispatch [mailto:dispatch-bounces@ietf.org= ] *=E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8 *Phil Sorber > *=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4:* 2017=E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=886=E6=97=A5= 3:12 > *=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA:* Cullen Jennings; DISPATCH > *=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98:* Re: [dispatch] New Version Notification for > draft-huang-dispatch-hybrid-video-delivery-00.txt > > > > I would at least be interested in hearing more about this. Just to > clarify, this is meant to be a problem statement for a WG forming BoF or > similar and not a standalone document, correct? > > > > On Wed, Jul 5, 2017 at 10:59 AM Cullen Jennings wrote: > > > One thing that would be interesting to understand is do we have interest > from the both the folks that deploy file mode and the folks that deploy > packet mode in using a common solution if we made one ? > > > > On Jul 4, 2017, at 4:24 AM, Huangyihong (Rachel) < > rachel.huang@huawei.com> wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > This draft was posted yesterday. It discussed the different technologie= s > of delivery video services, and the impact of the diversity in a hybrid > network. Feedbacks are welcome. > > > > BR, > > Rachel > > > > -----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6----- > > =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: internet-drafts@ietf.org [mailto:internet-= drafts@ietf.org] > > =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2017=E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=883=E6=97=A5= 18:05 > > =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Huangyihong (Rachel); Zhenghui (Marvin); R= oni Even > > =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: New Version Notification for > draft-huang-dispatch-hybrid-video-delivery-00.txt > > > > > > A new version of I-D, draft-huang-dispatch-hybrid-video-delivery-00.txt > > has been successfully submitted by Hui Zheng and posted to the IETF > repository. > > > > Name: draft-huang-dispatch-hybrid-video-delivery > > Revision: 00 > > Title: Video Delivery in Hybrid Network > > Document date: 2017-07-03 > > Group: Individual Submission > > Pages: 6 > > URL: > https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-huang-dispatch-hybrid-video-de= livery-00.txt > > Status: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-huang-dispatch-hybrid-video-delive= ry/ > > Htmlized: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-huang-dispatch-hybrid-video-delivery-00 > > Htmlized: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-huang-dispatch-hybrid-video-d= elivery-00 > > > > > > Abstract: > > The industry trend of delivering video service is moving towards all > > IP solutions. However, there exit multiple incompatible platforms > > for video distribution. This document explores the existing video > > delivery technologies and analyses the challenges of unifying those > > technologies. > > > > > > > > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at > tools.ietf.org. > > > > The IETF Secretariat > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dispatch mailing list > > dispatch@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dispatch > > _______________________________________________ > dispatch mailing list > dispatch@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dispatch > > --001a114497fc618dbc05539d48ec Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I'm interested in your side meeting. I'm part= of a team that works on a CDN for IP video delivery. Both Linear and VOD. = Currently doing pull and would like to add push.

Thanks.

On Wed, Jul 5, 2017= at 8:44 PM Huangyihong (Rachel) <rachel.huang@huawei.com> wrote:

No, it=E2= =80=99s just for an open discussion. It=E2=80=99s too early in a stage to p= ropose a WG or similar. The intention of this draft is to get the feedback from IETF on this topic if =C2=A0they think we should solve the problem or= not. If people are interested in this, probably we may have a side meeting= to discuss it more and exchange ideas.

=C2= =A0

BR,=

Rachel<= /u>

=C2= =A0

=E5=8F=91=E4=BB= =B6=E4=BA=BA: dispatch [mailto:dispatch-bounces@ietf.org] =E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8 Phil Sorber
=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9= =97=B4: 2017=E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=886=E6=97=A5<= span lang=3D"EN-US"> 3:12
=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Cullen Jennings; DISPATCH
=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [dispatch] New Version Notification for draft-huang-dispatch-hy= brid-video-delivery-00.txt

=C2=A0

I would at least be interested = in hearing more about this. Just to clarify, this is meant to be a problem = statement for a WG forming BoF or similar and not a standalone document, co= rrect?

=C2=A0

On Wed, Jul 5, 2017 at 10:59 AM= Cullen Jennings <flu= ffy@iii.ca> wrote:


One thing that would be interesting to understand is do we have interest=C2= =A0 from the both the folks that deploy file mode and the folks that deploy= packet mode in using a common solution if we made one ?


> On Jul 4, 2017, at 4:24 AM, Huangyihong (Rachel) <rachel.huang@huawei.com>= wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> This draft was posted yesterday. It discussed the different technologi= es of delivery video services, and the impact of the diversity in a hybrid = network. Feedbacks are welcome.
>
> BR,
> Rachel
>
> -----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6-= ----
> =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: internet-drafts@ietf.org [mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org]
> =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2017= =E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=88= 3=E6=97=A5 18:05
> =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Huangyihong (= Rachel); Zhenghui (Marvin); Roni Even
> =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: New Version Notificati= on for draft-huang-dispatch-hybrid-video-delivery-00.txt
>
>
> A new version of I-D, draft-huang-dispatch-hybrid-video-delivery-00.tx= t
> has been successfully submitted by Hui Zheng and posted to the IETF re= pository.
>
> Name:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0draft-huang-dispatch-hybrid-vid= eo-delivery
> Revision:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A000
> Title:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Video De= livery in Hybrid Network
> Document date:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 2017-07-03
> Group:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Individu= al Submission
> Pages:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 6
> URL:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-huang-dispatch-hybrid-video-deli= very-00.txt
> Status:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-huang-dispatch-hybrid-video-deliv= ery/
> Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https= ://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-huang-dispatch-hybrid-video-delivery-00 > Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-huang-dispatch-hybrid-vide= o-delivery-00
>
>
> Abstract:
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0The industry trend of delivering video service is moving t= owards all
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0IP solutions.=C2=A0 However, there exit multiple incompati= ble platforms
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0for video distribution.=C2=A0 This document explores the e= xisting video
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0delivery technologies and analyses the challenges of unify= ing those
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0technologies.
>
>
>
>
> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of subm= ission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
>
> The IETF Secretariat
>
> _______________________________________________
> dispatch mailing list
> dispatch@ietf.o= rg
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dispatch

_______________________________________________
dispatch mailing list
dispatch@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dispatch

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charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: microsoft.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 06 Jul 2017 19:45:09.3881 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 72f988bf-86f1-41af-91ab-2d7cd011db47 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: MWHPR21MB0285 Archived-At: Subject: [dispatch] Internet-Draft: Using URIs With Multiple Transport Stacks X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2017 19:45:14 -0000 UmVjZW50bHkgd2UndmUgc2VlbiBtdWx0aXBsZSByZXF1ZXN0cyAoaW5jbHVkaW5nIGZyb20gdGhy ZWUgZGlmZmVyZW50IFNET3MpIGFuZA0KZGlzY3Vzc2lvbnMgb24gZGlmZmVyZW50IGxpc3RzIHJl Z2FyZGluZyB1c2luZyBVUkkgc2NoZW1lcyBmb3IgYXBwbGljYXRpb24tbGF5ZXIgcHJvdG9jb2xz DQp0aGF0IGNhbiBvcGVyYXRlIG92ZXIgbXVsdGlwbGUgdHJhbnNwb3J0IHN0YWNrcyAoZS5nLiwg VURQLCBUQ1AsIHdlYnNvY2tldHMsIEhUVFAsIGV0Yy4pLiANClRoaXMgZHJhZnQgc3VtbWFyaXpl cyB0aGUgdmFyaW91cyB0ZWNobmljYWwgZGlzY3Vzc2lvbnMgYW5kIGlzc3VlcyByYWlzZWQuDQoN Ck5vdCBzdXJlIGlmIHRoZXJlIGlzIGFueSByZWd1bGFyIG1lZXRpbmcgdGltZSBhdmFpbGFibGUg YXQgSUVURiwgYnV0IEkgYXQgbGVhc3Qgd2FudGVkDQp0byBzaGFyZSB0aGlzIG1vcmUgYnJvYWRs eSBmb3IgdmlzaWJpbGl0eSwgYW5kIHRvIHNvbGljaXQgYWRkaXRpb25hbCBmZWVkYmFjay4NCg0K RGF2ZQ0KDQotLS0tLU9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLQ0KQSBOZXcgSW50ZXJuZXQtRHJhZnQg aXMgYXZhaWxhYmxlIGZyb20gdGhlIG9uLWxpbmUgSW50ZXJuZXQtRHJhZnRzIGRpcmVjdG9yaWVz Lg0KDQogICAgICAgIFRpdGxlICAgICAgICAgICA6IFVzaW5nIFVSSXMgV2l0aCBNdWx0aXBsZSBU cmFuc3BvcnQgU3RhY2tzDQogICAgICAgIEF1dGhvciAgICAgICAgICA6IERhdmUgVGhhbGVyDQoJ RmlsZW5hbWUgICAgICAgIDogZHJhZnQtdGhhbGVyLWFwcHNhd2ctbXVsdGktdHJhbnNwb3J0LXVy aXMtMDEudHh0DQoJUGFnZXMgICAgICAgICAgIDogMTANCglEYXRlICAgICAgICAgICAgOiAyMDE3 LTA3LTAzDQoNCkFic3RyYWN0Og0KICAgTWFueSBVbmlmb3JtIFJlc291cmNlIElkZW50aWZpZXJz IChVUklzKSB0b2RheSBoYXZlIHNvbWUgbWVjaGFuaXNtIHRvDQogICByZXNvbHZlIHRoZW0gdG8g b25lIG9yIG1vcmUgc3BlY2lmaWMgZW5kcG9pbnRzIHdoZXJlIHRoYXQgcmVzb3VyY2UgaXMNCiAg IGF2YWlsYWJsZS4gIFRoaXMgZG9jdW1lbnQgZGlzY3Vzc2VzIGlzc3VlcyB0aGF0IGFyaXNlIHdo ZW4gdGhlIHNhbWUNCiAgIHJlc291cmNlIGNhbiBiZSByZWFjaGVkIG92ZXIgbXVsdGlwbGUgcHJv dG9jb2wgc3RhY2tzLCBhbmQgZGlzY3Vzc2VzDQogICB2YXJpb3VzIGFwcHJvYWNoZXMgdGhhdCBo YXZlIGJlZW4gdXNlZCBvciBkaXNjdXNzZWQsIGFuZCB0aGUNCiAgIHRyYWRlb2ZmcyBiZXR3ZWVu IHRoZW0uICBTdWNoIGlzc3VlcyBhcmUgaW1wb3J0YW50IHRvIGNvbnNpZGVyIHdoZW4NCiAgIGRl ZmluaW5nIG5ldyBVUkkgc2NoZW1lcyBhbmQgcmVzb2x1dGlvbiBtZWNoYW5pc21zLg0KDQoNClRo ZSBJRVRGIGRhdGF0cmFja2VyIHN0YXR1cyBwYWdlIGZvciB0aGlzIGRyYWZ0IGlzOg0KaHR0cHM6 Ly9kYXRhdHJhY2tlci5pZXRmLm9yZy9kb2MvZHJhZnQtdGhhbGVyLWFwcHNhd2ctbXVsdGktdHJh bnNwb3J0LXVyaXMvDQoNClRoZXJlIGFyZSBhbHNvIGh0bWxpemVkIHZlcnNpb25zIGF2YWlsYWJs ZSBhdDoNCmh0dHBzOi8vdG9vbHMuaWV0Zi5vcmcvaHRtbC9kcmFmdC10aGFsZXItYXBwc2F3Zy1t dWx0aS10cmFuc3BvcnQtdXJpcy0wMQ0KaHR0cHM6Ly9kYXRhdHJhY2tlci5pZXRmLm9yZy9kb2Mv aHRtbC9kcmFmdC10aGFsZXItYXBwc2F3Zy1tdWx0aS10cmFuc3BvcnQtdXJpcy0wMQ0KDQpBIGRp ZmYgZnJvbSB0aGUgcHJldmlvdXMgdmVyc2lvbiBpcyBhdmFpbGFibGUgYXQ6DQpodHRwczovL3d3 dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9yZmNkaWZmP3VybDI9ZHJhZnQtdGhhbGVyLWFwcHNhd2ctbXVsdGktdHJhbnNw b3J0LXVyaXMtMDENCg0KDQpQbGVhc2Ugbm90ZSB0aGF0IGl0IG1heSB0YWtlIGEgY291cGxlIG9m IG1pbnV0ZXMgZnJvbSB0aGUgdGltZSBvZiBzdWJtaXNzaW9uDQp1bnRpbCB0aGUgaHRtbGl6ZWQg dmVyc2lvbiBhbmQgZGlmZiBhcmUgYXZhaWxhYmxlIGF0IHRvb2xzLmlldGYub3JnLg0KDQpJbnRl cm5ldC1EcmFmdHMgYXJlIGFsc28gYXZhaWxhYmxlIGJ5IGFub255bW91cyBGVFAgYXQ6DQpmdHA6 Ly9mdHAuaWV0Zi5vcmcvaW50ZXJuZXQtZHJhZnRzLw0K From nobody Fri Jul 7 08:15:18 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4AB4912EBF5; Fri, 7 Jul 2017 08:15:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Mv84VrgnrYpm; Fri, 7 Jul 2017 08:15:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from loire.is.ed.ac.uk (loire.is.ed.ac.uk [129.215.16.10]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B57C6131642; Fri, 7 Jul 2017 08:15:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from crunchie.inf.ed.ac.uk (crunchie.inf.ed.ac.uk [129.215.33.180]) by loire.is.ed.ac.uk (8.14.7/8.14.6) with ESMTP id v67FF9Ku010692; Fri, 7 Jul 2017 16:15:09 +0100 Received: from troutbeck.inf.ed.ac.uk (troutbeck.inf.ed.ac.uk [129.215.25.32]) by crunchie.inf.ed.ac.uk (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id v67FF8vc029302; Fri, 7 Jul 2017 16:15:08 +0100 Received: from troutbeck.inf.ed.ac.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by troutbeck.inf.ed.ac.uk (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id v67FF9lL015825; Fri, 7 Jul 2017 16:15:09 +0100 Received: (from ht@localhost) by troutbeck.inf.ed.ac.uk (8.14.7/8.14.7/Submit) id v67FF8aX015824; Fri, 7 Jul 2017 16:15:08 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: troutbeck.inf.ed.ac.uk: ht set sender to ht@inf.ed.ac.uk using -f To: Dave Thaler Cc: "uri-review\@ietf.org" , "dispatch\@ietf.org" , "art\@ietf.org" References: From: ht@inf.ed.ac.uk (Henry S. Thompson) Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2017 16:15:08 +0100 In-Reply-To: (Dave Thaler's message of "Thu\, 6 Jul 2017 19\:45\:09 +0000") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.1012 (Gnus v5.10.12) XEmacs/21.5-b34 (linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Edinburgh-Scanned: at loire.is.ed.ac.uk with MIMEDefang 2.78, Sophie, Sophos Anti-Virus, Clam AntiVirus X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.78 on 129.215.16.10 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dispatch] [Uri-review] Internet-Draft: Using URIs With Multiple Transport Stacks X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2017 15:15:16 -0000 Dave Thaler writes: > Recently we've seen multiple requests (including from three different > SDOs) and discussions on different lists regarding using URI schemes > for application-layer protocols that can operate over multiple > transport stacks (e.g., UDP, TCP, websockets, HTTP, etc.). This draft > summarizes the various technical discussions and issues raised. > > Not sure if there is any regular meeting time available at IETF, but I > at least wanted to share this more broadly for visibility, and to > solicit additional feedback. The W3C TAG devoted a fair amount of effort to this issue about 12 years ago, and our thinking at the time (2005) is recorded here: https://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/SchemeProtocols.html which may provide a useful independent perspective, albeit somewhat dated in some respects. ht -- Henry S. Thompson, School of Informatics, University of Edinburgh 10 Crichton Street, Edinburgh EH8 9AB, SCOTLAND -- (44) 131 650-4440 Fax: (44) 131 650-4587, e-mail: ht@inf.ed.ac.uk URL: http://www.ltg.ed.ac.uk/~ht/ [mail from me _always_ has a .sig like this -- mail without it is forged spam] From nobody Fri Jul 7 11:17:58 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D41591317C2; Fri, 7 Jul 2017 11:17:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.021 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.021 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=microsoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tyqfdgVOHriC; Fri, 7 Jul 2017 11:17:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from NAM03-BY2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-by2nam03on0101.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.42.101]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5E7BA129B36; Fri, 7 Jul 2017 11:17:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version; bh=7vUzevS01wMiIErAsxHwTvyHDN9QnQYwyCacj5bZscE=; b=lND2YDCH3jdjwWsjaEuIz+HPUk2ShRl3Je/PUHZely3WnT9l/s2gXOOuMpJAVIFNBVEMeX2lh577Z+8KAmXafUPYfDkkpLjlQyhmE7r/1BF/UXR9vraGIqfSH7/y6iVDzRjsWNNVCB7N4ub/6swuVicLZs0itqwtjFD1azfonuk= Received: from MWHPR21MB0125.namprd21.prod.outlook.com (10.173.52.7) by MWHPR21MB0479.namprd21.prod.outlook.com (10.172.102.18) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1261.3; Fri, 7 Jul 2017 18:17:34 +0000 Received: from MWHPR21MB0125.namprd21.prod.outlook.com ([10.173.52.7]) by MWHPR21MB0125.namprd21.prod.outlook.com ([10.173.52.7]) with mapi id 15.01.1261.007; Fri, 7 Jul 2017 18:17:34 +0000 From: Dave Thaler To: "Henry S. Thompson" CC: "uri-review@ietf.org" , "dispatch@ietf.org" , "art@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Uri-review] Internet-Draft: Using URIs With Multiple Transport Stacks Thread-Index: AdL2j89KknngpoFTRaiO7w0jXk0ylAApAZzNAAZX9MA= Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2017 18:17:34 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: inf.ed.ac.uk; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none; inf.ed.ac.uk; dmarc=none action=none header.from=microsoft.com; x-originating-ip: [167.220.1.79] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; MWHPR21MB0479; 7:Tic95E8xNrFubmg8RD0caHY+6xdQ5sF93sCEcKb95IOBnevNiaPrEyVBBJnQhYkGe2bYoVWXCkB3hOSOozy5JuxgnQpMEsry31PzLLhm3N31S5pOfX/hHc9sKLhLXciUpgNN1Ki9QtpOkOu07BB+cLSJ1+gUNoxRD84B0CSEcNAj9kaoFx8FGMByIqjJ5LJJ7ZTeQWVCygTU1Fv/FvuLJC+FlPljeN1kfUoE1AeJ5t6NcmAHefOlW8OxTXpMkYhHfQ0E+38Hg1dNrfyBpBxKf1/0Ckqi1T3OV2juGaaWbuE9x9rLntQfkeYAHGSCNQiRYq0bKI0rhICXaaYLIteG2WxjfQrg+k+I8q6oMc/bu6uqaB0KK6sYBoYSo+Q0NxjLQUew7Sj0woUSMNVm/nSx3yfhoQFEnbKHTh0q1u80I65cwpW8hp7VZVUh2ZBAbEsmB6cEReJx0zUaW8WPZ2aDhTI5i/8IAytI4LOP7E8PpunxA265M3wtsCSguF8qYMPBeBlj36c5a50HejweVI5heMX0sNJr4TFCiJBNNVuvwa+xKUOjFEd2GWtVTw68UiCCatFo9p+ELVzPsj5S3+WEKEHKA4JAFvZzf0ZbEP4ui5wVm3vmvkTo+ER3rJzhNtTFqi9BTq24XNTc3vfcS/qmxMuizoAw0GmpaQ5NDFj0X+/ywV5n/Cl410N9qej76cr4TFpWxPALXH5zEFecDeeN8VWEghf3GgdhUPGsYa/Oc/vRQupjGSRiwWMdczJY9AFVcjcOIlY1VFfVBfngQcklFDDkIlCxZI9SXM5mEO0+LxrUmvk5RDQN1IxVW3Ga4sRu x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: d074b94f-2977-4516-77df-08d4c56470ed x-ms-office365-filtering-ht: Tenant x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(300000500095)(300135000095)(300000501095)(300135300095)(22001)(300000502095)(300135100095)(2017030254075)(48565401081)(300000503095)(300135400095)(2017052603031)(201703131423075)(201703031133081)(300000504095)(300135200095)(300000505095)(300135600095)(300000506095)(300135500095); SRVR:MWHPR21MB0479; x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: MWHPR21MB0479: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:(236129657087228)(189930954265078)(90097320859284)(181193635805523)(219752817060721); x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(100000700101)(100105000095)(100000701101)(100105300095)(100000702101)(100105100095)(61425038)(6040450)(601004)(2401047)(8121501046)(5005006)(2017060910066)(93006095)(93001095)(100000703101)(100105400095)(3002001)(10201501046)(6055026)(61426038)(61427038)(6041248)(20161123560025)(20161123558100)(20161123555025)(20161123564025)(201703131423075)(201702281528075)(201703061421075)(201703061406153)(20161123562025)(6072148)(100000704101)(100105200095)(100000705101)(100105500095); SRVR:MWHPR21MB0479; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(100000800101)(100110000095)(100000801101)(100110300095)(100000802101)(100110100095)(100000803101)(100110400095)(100000804101)(100110200095)(100000805101)(100110500095); SRVR:MWHPR21MB0479; x-forefront-prvs: 0361212EA8 x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(6009001)(39860400002)(39400400002)(39410400002)(39450400003)(39840400002)(39850400002)(377454003)(13464003)(252514010)(7696004)(66066001)(5660300001)(77096006)(33656002)(76176999)(50986999)(54356999)(8936002)(478600001)(2906002)(229853002)(110136004)(102836003)(6306002)(3846002)(54906002)(9686003)(10090500001)(6116002)(4326008)(81166006)(99286003)(38730400002)(55016002)(8676002)(6246003)(3280700002)(6506006)(74316002)(5005710100001)(305945005)(6436002)(7736002)(2900100001)(3660700001)(8990500004)(966005)(189998001)(2950100002)(6916009)(14454004)(25786009)(53546010)(86362001)(86612001)(575784001)(10290500003)(53936002); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:MWHPR21MB0479; H:MWHPR21MB0125.namprd21.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; MLV:sfv; LANG:en; spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: microsoft.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 07 Jul 2017 18:17:34.6844 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 72f988bf-86f1-41af-91ab-2d7cd011db47 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: MWHPR21MB0479 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dispatch] [Uri-review] Internet-Draft: Using URIs With Multiple Transport Stacks X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2017 18:17:39 -0000 Thanks Henry for the pointer, that is very relevant and I will cite it (and= some points in it) in a future version of this draft. Dave -----Original Message----- From: Henry S. Thompson [mailto:ht@inf.ed.ac.uk]=20 Sent: Friday, July 7, 2017 8:15 AM To: Dave Thaler Cc: uri-review@ietf.org; dispatch@ietf.org; art@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Uri-review] Internet-Draft: Using URIs With Multiple Transpor= t Stacks Dave Thaler writes: > Recently we've seen multiple requests (including from three different > SDOs) and discussions on different lists regarding using URI schemes=20 > for application-layer protocols that can operate over multiple=20 > transport stacks (e.g., UDP, TCP, websockets, HTTP, etc.). This draft=20 > summarizes the various technical discussions and issues raised. > > Not sure if there is any regular meeting time available at IETF, but I=20 > at least wanted to share this more broadly for visibility, and to=20 > solicit additional feedback. The W3C TAG devoted a fair amount of effort to this issue about 12 years ag= o, and our thinking at the time (2005) is recorded here: https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3= .org%2F2001%2Ftag%2Fdoc%2FSchemeProtocols.html&data=3D02%7C01%7Cdthaler%40m= icrosoft.com%7C8ef6fcd0d8f64853727a08d4c54af6f5%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd= 011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636350373145131799&sdata=3D7tkNgY68gW0EwKJQGU676kclstxp88= Pf1CveKwVzdmM%3D&reserved=3D0 which may provide a useful independent perspective, albeit somewhat dated i= n some respects. ht --=20 Henry S. Thompson, School of Informatics, University of Edinburgh 10 Crichton Street, Edinburgh EH8 9AB, SCOTLAND -- (44) 131 650-4440 Fax: (44) 131 650-4587, e-mail: ht@inf.ed.ac.uk URL: https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?= url=3Dhttp:%2F%2Fwww.ltg.ed.ac.uk%2F~ht%2F&data=3D02%7C01%7Cdthaler%40micro= soft.com%7C8ef6fcd0d8f64853727a08d4c54af6f5%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011d= b47%7C1%7C0%7C636350373145141803&sdata=3DN5MVPCx%2BN%2FeOzkFQLmC%2BPeq9JClV= ApoWwysXCPq4FGc%3D&reserved=3D0 [mail from me _always_ has a .sig like this -- mail without it is forged s= pam] From nobody Sun Jul 9 00:09:21 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5CE8B129AC6; Sun, 9 Jul 2017 00:09:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id f_rQ1_mAr_A9; Sun, 9 Jul 2017 00:09:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay16.mail.ox.ac.uk (relay16.mail.ox.ac.uk [163.1.2.166]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EA5E3129AC1; Sun, 9 Jul 2017 00:09:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp6.mail.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.2.206]) by relay16.mail.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1dU6LE-0001Ai-pd; Sun, 09 Jul 2017 08:09:16 +0100 Received: from gklyne38.plus.com ([81.174.129.24] helo=sasharissa.local) by smtp6.mail.ox.ac.uk with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1dU6LD-0008t3-LJ; Sun, 09 Jul 2017 08:09:15 +0100 Message-ID: <5961D699.50909@ninebynine.org> Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2017 08:09:13 +0100 From: Graham Klyne User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Henry S. Thompson" , Dave Thaler CC: "art@ietf.org" , "uri-review@ietf.org" , "dispatch@ietf.org" References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Oxford-Username: zool0635 X-Oxmail-Spam-Status: score=0.0 tests=none X-Oxmail-Spam-Level: / Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dispatch] [Uri-review] Internet-Draft: Using URIs With Multiple Transport Stacks X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2017 07:09:19 -0000 Henry, thanks for this reminder. FWIW, looking at section 4 (http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/SchemeProtocols.html#findings), I think R1, R3, G5, G6, R7, G8, G9 (i.e., most of the findings!) all have some bearing on the issues being discussed, insofar as they affect the World Wide Web. On a brief scan, I think the discussion here is as relevant today as it was in 2005 - some maybe more so with the move to HTTPS-everywhere. #g -- On 07/07/2017 16:15, Henry S. Thompson wrote: > Dave Thaler writes: > >> Recently we've seen multiple requests (including from three different >> SDOs) and discussions on different lists regarding using URI schemes >> for application-layer protocols that can operate over multiple >> transport stacks (e.g., UDP, TCP, websockets, HTTP, etc.). This draft >> summarizes the various technical discussions and issues raised. >> >> Not sure if there is any regular meeting time available at IETF, but I >> at least wanted to share this more broadly for visibility, and to >> solicit additional feedback. > > The W3C TAG devoted a fair amount of effort to this issue about 12 years > ago, and our thinking at the time (2005) is recorded here: > > https://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/SchemeProtocols.html > > which may provide a useful independent perspective, albeit somewhat > dated in some respects. > > ht > From nobody Mon Jul 10 02:30:53 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E32E128DE5; Mon, 10 Jul 2017 02:30:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.701 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.701 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=mnot.net header.b=IRjK3+0s; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=am1CYEwR Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id G6elSJ9Xvg_m; Mon, 10 Jul 2017 02:30:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from out3-smtp.messagingengine.com (out3-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.27]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1CA401270A7; Mon, 10 Jul 2017 02:30:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from compute3.internal (compute3.nyi.internal [10.202.2.43]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B8B020A8A; Mon, 10 Jul 2017 05:30:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from frontend1 ([10.202.2.160]) by compute3.internal (MEProxy); Mon, 10 Jul 2017 05:30:47 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mnot.net; h=cc :content-transfer-encoding:content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-me-sender :x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc:x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=le1L3c9C4EyUTru7Ox GEaop5rAPKo4vYxmtFIBh/0iI=; b=IRjK3+0sSiC4gUCMa3oDykqMnSNRPnnlFQ hhVeLHHgpVPTkcrG4qP4mu0C4tk1S2nMbKt7EsIu5B/5i85+9/0qIWmhRIwE+H/w U/8MPoPn9LAgTlBmwbmyaxCDUFkoSHAfnx2Elqtfr0OJgRI2ICFli2Kww+gkFR4P s/+c4gVzLftxbrOyAxpOtunZOr3gbRH4udiS1KFMuSg2s6rjy+osQa+9a2YuxWPw XFb8mjGLbPWtMqCk/1aHPWk8v1v4l8LZ6d2Tcxd5I+xqmg767bH5PVXCQAh7+L5U I4Y84I6Wn9b0OTR2bv2HfvKSspXBMqg7/qUosT4C09TPCfDFqnZw== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc:x-sasl-enc; s= fm1; bh=le1L3c9C4EyUTru7OxGEaop5rAPKo4vYxmtFIBh/0iI=; b=am1CYEwR zSZc1ZdfD+w6BmfX+gZX63AoNr33qWMUrgHhncU8XXPSlks1kTrgiAsVcVenxhkH 8+TzHSTcqIaVdhVkKZ9hHkA7ZDg8L8WzTq7uU7iPbuz6Eay25zI3nPFn+eFxUF9M tMLkcgBNSsLOVmsd31vTk3IjZnLB5xXBFuBTMNHhykdu1Zws9mM1Cuyk3iFsYuYY 6jS55fZgi4cHZwxa0rcuoMFQPe3a9AYvgTZvx8bv64yxF+LqbvEdhdb5VXq10cl4 KBWYbI1vtxJX9n1YYP7GeYgWMQ1S06PJqqEDFgJWQfeSALQzhuz14zyHSRyoxTFL /+85AIcFsR9DEA== X-ME-Sender: X-Sasl-enc: mHaAEC8llzyntVAhNyWWThociHmglXPzOCDQgnIiwkkN 1499679047 Received: from [192.168.1.14] (cpe-124-188-19-231.hdbq1.win.bigpond.net.au [124.188.19.231]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 5C72B7E8B9; Mon, 10 Jul 2017 05:30:45 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) From: Mark Nottingham In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2017 19:30:43 +1000 Cc: Dave Thaler , "art@ietf.org" , "uri-review@ietf.org" , "dispatch@ietf.org" , Noah Mendelsohn , Daniel Appelquist Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <2BA6A41C-7933-4405-997D-BE2D0DA69CF5@mnot.net> References: To: "Henry S. Thompson" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dispatch] [Uri-review] Internet-Draft: Using URIs With Multiple Transport Stacks X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2017 09:30:51 -0000 Hi Henry, Thanks for that. Looping in Noah and Dan (sorry for including you on a = list reply!). Why was the document left in draft state? Does the current TAG have any = interest in progressing a finding like this one? Cheers, > On 8 Jul 2017, at 1:15 am, Henry S. Thompson wrote: >=20 > Dave Thaler writes: >=20 >> Recently we've seen multiple requests (including from three different >> SDOs) and discussions on different lists regarding using URI schemes >> for application-layer protocols that can operate over multiple >> transport stacks (e.g., UDP, TCP, websockets, HTTP, etc.). This draft >> summarizes the various technical discussions and issues raised. >>=20 >> Not sure if there is any regular meeting time available at IETF, but = I >> at least wanted to share this more broadly for visibility, and to >> solicit additional feedback. >=20 > The W3C TAG devoted a fair amount of effort to this issue about 12 = years > ago, and our thinking at the time (2005) is recorded here: >=20 > https://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/SchemeProtocols.html >=20 > which may provide a useful independent perspective, albeit somewhat > dated in some respects. >=20 > ht > --=20 > Henry S. Thompson, School of Informatics, University of = Edinburgh > 10 Crichton Street, Edinburgh EH8 9AB, SCOTLAND -- (44) 131 = 650-4440 > Fax: (44) 131 650-4587, e-mail: ht@inf.ed.ac.uk > URL: http://www.ltg.ed.ac.uk/~ht/ > [mail from me _always_ has a .sig like this -- mail without it is = forged spam] >=20 > _______________________________________________ > dispatch mailing list > dispatch@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dispatch -- Mark Nottingham https://www.mnot.net/ From nobody Tue Jul 11 00:29:43 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F8C51319BB for ; Tue, 11 Jul 2017 00:29:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NsB8VKdw1euD for ; Tue, 11 Jul 2017 00:29:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ua0-x22e.google.com (mail-ua0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c08::22e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 93EC41319B9 for ; Tue, 11 Jul 2017 00:29:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ua0-x22e.google.com with SMTP id j53so68695101uaa.2 for ; Tue, 11 Jul 2017 00:29:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=kBz7tlc4Z2HnHJC+TcWXJt+G0V+9ElC1TcYMCjkbm3U=; b=fjXuT+HX92GnzjvFdmnZAUEyDlrIhxmwYFkvz/XOJRwStrZ0ZSRBil88xbRhuqps8G 4yGZIc8JkegW0Z0feY/G6FBz7V7qIHqFTp4s6L8dJzXzHzpu1BFjQyhJtiJljIA6xete rnKAgI6AeLnl4eadT3l0kad5ngozpvaUopSni/lORziU/nqvr6exYJtgpYzq/v/ujzAA lDJae2+m3naKqe7Pk9ulgA43AtcNnVK6eIrN6KrqhG9PWTpUHJreDgmsrb4GColB7tv9 aR2ONe1SGgf0cnkQ+AB7v735+SyioB35yKMw+tFcwfWA9Xl3s83P+GQyvFThghaeyLML ARBA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=kBz7tlc4Z2HnHJC+TcWXJt+G0V+9ElC1TcYMCjkbm3U=; b=SWAH1h/ZEXbkYROoPKO3dvc1o9a8GDyG+Ye0hZLN8yOYoog1ccD4esdeH68L+im6cz VmJojy3bJcJ9oFHebTkjOxoxxgvZW442X9uv7XAmJEU0wYIREgdAaw4Z4vqeCWiIu+Fx JbLdNnhKqjoKU7THvo323FLkAQMvVPNAOVSGkA8uHGQPNT5vrdnx2Cy0t9eqhcxyeu8f wf3VufYGFjmTzokQo1p51dpaQpUbh9fbZnUSmiQ8bJfRWj8kBe4hc8p0FSPSG1+eYPm3 jKRDhMf5gBCWmzh+27R5d6tyUxw1sw+SiqnkDpyApHHvlZM/AejzvRB4QVzjMB1qye7/ KFPw== X-Gm-Message-State: AIVw113KkPfZUgDY9GQOkjEvp16VbvOGhITra0HqRVRDT/ZV08PCJ7LE KfHWqWmbIkmGyPaWeZWn/3lA2qYkrQD3bY8= X-Received: by 10.176.4.50 with SMTP id 47mr11272841uav.151.1499758178424; Tue, 11 Jul 2017 00:29:38 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.103.126.196 with HTTP; Tue, 11 Jul 2017 00:29:37 -0700 (PDT) From: "Murray S. Kucherawy" Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2017 00:29:37 -0700 Message-ID: To: DISPATCH list Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a114b927e79631d055405a910" Archived-At: Subject: [dispatch] IETF 99 DISPATCH agenda posted X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2017 07:29:41 -0000 --001a114b927e79631d055405a910 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" A preliminary agenda for our IETF 99 session has been posted: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/agenda-99-dispatch/ I'm on the hook for coordinating the slide decks and will be arriving in Prague late Sunday, so I'll need more than a couple of jet-lagged hours to assemble everything. Therefore, if you have an assigned slot, please get your slides to dispatch-chairs@ietf.org by the end of Friday, July 14. I will be unable to accept late submissions or last-minute USB stick presentations. If you do not have an assigned slot but believe you should have one, please email dispatch-chairs@ietf.org immediately. If there is any early agenda bashing anyone would like to do, please reply to this thread. See you all in Prague, -MSK, DISPATCH co-chair --001a114b927e79631d055405a910 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
If you do not have an assigned slot but believe you = should have one, please email d= ispatch-chairs@ietf.org immediately.

If there is any early= agenda bashing anyone would like to do, please reply to this thread.
See you all in Prague,

-MSK, DISPATCH co-chair
--001a114b927e79631d055405a910-- From nobody Tue Jul 11 00:46:00 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44FD11319C4; Tue, 11 Jul 2017 00:45:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.22 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.22 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Vfws3jXR6lZ1; Tue, 11 Jul 2017 00:45:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 943591319BD; Tue, 11 Jul 2017 00:45:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DKD36450; Tue, 11 Jul 2017 07:45:53 +0000 (GMT) Received: from NKGEML413-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.74) by lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.45) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Tue, 11 Jul 2017 08:45:53 +0100 Received: from DGGEMM401-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.3.20.209) by NKGEML413-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.74) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.235.1; Tue, 11 Jul 2017 15:45:50 +0800 Received: from DGGEMM506-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.3.18]) by DGGEMM401-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.3.20.209]) with mapi id 14.03.0301.000; Tue, 11 Jul 2017 15:45:40 +0800 From: Roni Even To: "Murray S. Kucherawy" , "dispatch-chairs@ietf.org" CC: "Huangyihong (Rachel)" , DISPATCH list Thread-Topic: [dispatch] IETF 99 DISPATCH agenda posted Thread-Index: AQHS+hd/8BsbKijPfE2Ncdt0Ym8tJKJOPjSw Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2017 07:45:40 +0000 Message-ID: <6E58094ECC8D8344914996DAD28F1CCD7DEE1E@DGGEMM506-MBX.china.huawei.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.200.202.245] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_6E58094ECC8D8344914996DAD28F1CCD7DEE1EDGGEMM506MBXchina_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A020203.59648232.0014, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.3.18, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: 8fa6f3512b9dd999aeda93acea8239c0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dispatch] IETF 99 DISPATCH agenda posted X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 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IHJlcGx5IHRvIHRoaXMgdGhyZWFkLjxvOnA+PC9vOnA+PC9wPg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8ZGl2Pg0KPHAg Y2xhc3M9Ik1zb05vcm1hbCIgc3R5bGU9Im1hcmdpbi1ib3R0b206MTIuMHB0Ij5TZWUgeW91IGFs bCBpbiBQcmFndWUsPG86cD48L286cD48L3A+DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjxwIGNsYXNzPSJNc29Ob3JtYWwi IHN0eWxlPSJtYXJnaW4tYm90dG9tOjEyLjBwdCI+LU1TSywgRElTUEFUQ0ggY28tY2hhaXI8bzpw PjwvbzpwPjwvcD4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjwvYm9keT4NCjwvaHRtbD4NCg== --_000_6E58094ECC8D8344914996DAD28F1CCD7DEE1EDGGEMM506MBXchina_-- From nobody Wed Jul 12 13:00:54 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 259261317AB for ; Wed, 12 Jul 2017 13:00:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.701 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.701 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.8, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham 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[128.107.241.185]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384) by 0.0.0.0:587 (trex/5.7.12); Wed, 12 Jul 2017 16:00:48 -0400 From: Cullen Jennings Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.2 \(3259\)) Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2017 14:00:46 -0600 Message-Id: To: DISPATCH X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3259) Archived-At: Subject: [dispatch] Draft agenda for DISPATCH WG and Art Area meeting X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2017 20:00:53 -0000 DISPATCH WG Agenda IETF 99 =E2=80=94 Prague, Czech Republic July 17, 2017 09:30-11:30 *** PRELIMINARY v3 *** DISPATCH WG Session 09:30 Adminitrivia - Chairs (5 min) Agenda bashing; blue sheets; jabber scribe; note taker 09:35 Updates from Area Directors - ADs (5 min) 09:40 Web Packaging - Jeffrey Yasskin (30 min)=20 https://github.com/WICG/webpackage 10:10 DNS Over HTTPS - Paul Hoffman (40 min) draft-hoffman-dispatch-dns-over-https ARTAREA Session 10:50 BoF Summaries - various artists (5 min) 10:55 New Working Group Summaries -various artists (5 min) 11:00 Using URIs With Multiple Transport Stacks - Dave Thaler (15 min) draft-thaler-appsawg-multi-transport-uris 11:15 Hybrid Video Content - Rachel & Roni (10 min) draft-huang-dispatch-hybrid-video-delivery 11:25 Open Microphone/AOB (remaining time; TBD) Possible topics: - TBD From nobody Fri Jul 14 05:45:00 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94B13131678; Fri, 14 Jul 2017 05:44:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RTctepWkXtqx; Fri, 14 Jul 2017 05:44:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 29A36128DE5; Fri, 14 Jul 2017 05:44:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::b]) by mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v6ECiprN005609; Fri, 14 Jul 2017 14:44:51 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.10.10.206] (unknown [62.214.5.194]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3x8C7l3XXnzDKlr; Fri, 14 Jul 2017 14:44:51 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2017 14:44:49 +0200 Cc: Dave Thaler , "art@ietf.org" , "uri-review@ietf.org" , "dispatch@ietf.org" X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 521729089.263934-877c281628a79c5651999f5a11a7df6d Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <2A71B82F-4A5C-4F09-ADDB-2DD50742D14A@tzi.org> References: To: "Henry S. Thompson" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dispatch] [art] [Uri-review] Internet-Draft: Using URIs With Multiple Transport Stacks X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2017 12:44:58 -0000 On Jul 7, 2017, at 17:15, Henry S. Thompson wrote: >=20 > https://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/SchemeProtocols.html I think this is an interesting reference, as it confirms what has been = my perception of the debate so far: > Although new protocols have traditionally been associated with new URI = schemes, there are also advantages to supporting new protocols using = existing schemes. In particular, the URIs of existing resources may be = widely known, may have been bookmarked or otherwise recorded, or may = have been the subject of semantic web assertions. It seems to me that the conventional wisdom in this space is shaped by = experience with URIs that are intended to be long-term, stable, possibly = user-visible. Like https://facebook.com =E2=80=94 a *strategic* use of = URIs. The stability of this URI is so important that the additional = time and effort to do discovery (here: DNS lookup, possibly Happy = Eyeballs) is apparently justified (*). In CoRE, URIs are quite often the *result* of discovery (e.g., involving = a resource directory). They are meant to be instantly usable. They are = much more likely to contain IP addresses than in the Browser Web, to = avoid additional lookups. They are *tactical* URIs. I=E2=80=99m not sure we should be applying the wisdom we have for = strategic URIs to tactical URIs without checking whether the underlying = assumptions still apply. Maybe using the URI concept for tactical purposes is the wrong approach. = URIs were the one part of the three pillars of the Web we thought we = could use unmodified, but that caused some trade-offs. There are = multiple proposals to define a URI-like data structure for the purpose = that I called =E2=80=9Ctactical=E2=80=9D above. Doing that would also = enable us to solve the rather limited support for security that URIs = have; right now URIs often need to be packaged with security information = in a larger structure, so we might want to unpack the URI into that. But for now, URIs are in wide use, and it would be good if we could use = them for tactical purposes without getting stuck with all the baggage of = strategic use. Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten (*) And yet, it only recently replaced http://facebook.com...= From nobody Sat Jul 15 01:49:13 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C31C512EC18; Sat, 15 Jul 2017 01:49:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.88 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.88 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, T_SPF_HELO_PERMERROR=0.01, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DwKUTSOzc2Cc; Sat, 15 Jul 2017 01:49:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 78E28127058; Sat, 15 Jul 2017 01:49:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dhcp-9616.meeting.ietf.org (dhcp-9616.meeting.ietf.org [31.133.150.22]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id v6F8mw87064523 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Sat, 15 Jul 2017 03:49:00 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from adam@nostrum.com) To: Carsten Bormann , "Henry S. Thompson" Cc: "art@ietf.org" , "uri-review@ietf.org" , "dispatch@ietf.org" , Dave Thaler References: <2A71B82F-4A5C-4F09-ADDB-2DD50742D14A@tzi.org> From: Adam Roach Message-ID: <7bddc0af-25df-93ba-a682-43fce63c4022@nostrum.com> Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2017 10:48:57 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <2A71B82F-4A5C-4F09-ADDB-2DD50742D14A@tzi.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dispatch] [art] [Uri-review] Internet-Draft: Using URIs With Multiple Transport Stacks X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2017 08:49:05 -0000 On 7/14/17 14:44, Carsten Bormann wrote: > On Jul 7, 2017, at 17:15, Henry S. Thompson wrote: >> https://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/SchemeProtocols.html > I think this is an interesting reference, as it confirms what has been my perception of the debate so far: > >> Although new protocols have traditionally been associated with new URI schemes, there are also advantages to supporting new protocols using existing schemes. In particular, the URIs of existing resources may be widely known, may have been bookmarked or otherwise recorded, or may have been the subject of semantic web assertions. > > It seems to me that the conventional wisdom in this space is shaped by experience with URIs that are intended to be long-term, stable, possibly user-visible. Like https://facebook.com — a *strategic* use of URIs. The stability of this URI is so important that the additional time and effort to do discovery (here: DNS lookup, possibly Happy Eyeballs) is apparently justified (*). > > In CoRE, URIs are quite often the *result* of discovery (e.g., involving a resource directory). They are meant to be instantly usable. They are much more likely to contain IP addresses than in the Browser Web, to avoid additional lookups. They are *tactical* URIs. I think you stopped quoting the paragraph before it got to something highly relevant for CoAP: "...there are serious drawbacks to naming the same resource with more than one URI..." I do see that the TCP draft as submitted for consideration tries to deal with this by making making the TCP-only schemes use a different namespace than the original schemes, but this looks like a sleight of hand: in practice, it seems highly likely that servers will need to make resources available to both TCP-only clients and UDP-only clients, which makes this kind of aliasing inevitable. I do not believe the "tactical versus strategic" distinction you're trying to draw here has any bearing on that aspect of URL use. /a From nobody Sat Jul 15 02:12:56 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2419412EBF9; Sat, 15 Jul 2017 02:12:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.802 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.802 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.8, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=microsoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6jpTBV5m4vVn; Sat, 15 Jul 2017 02:12:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from NAM03-DM3-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-dm3nam03on0119.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.41.119]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 91F5F126DC2; Sat, 15 Jul 2017 02:12:48 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version; bh=Idjp4k4+NP+mnCk5wwRCFZiA4MsgHH/+DqEz06jfdKc=; b=MahVPiYhzkVg4LqTdfvG3t7sZFEwDlRYtJQN+Fgf4hJPyJzW+a6UiVWPjhDVCrTQ3ife1ZLapZR7yqY6+egEw3iNNBLwH0h5nBYBNeApuLWf2OEfJ9qu1UJngIdRlcbzlZtFDbEvQlIm9s7uvR/9Pkv9pjBYqftakRW3YexVmX8= Received: from MWHPR21MB0125.namprd21.prod.outlook.com (10.173.52.7) by MWHPR21MB0509.namprd21.prod.outlook.com (10.172.95.139) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1282.2; Sat, 15 Jul 2017 09:12:47 +0000 Received: from MWHPR21MB0125.namprd21.prod.outlook.com ([10.173.52.7]) by MWHPR21MB0125.namprd21.prod.outlook.com ([10.173.52.7]) with mapi id 15.01.1282.007; Sat, 15 Jul 2017 09:12:47 +0000 From: Dave Thaler To: Adam Roach , Carsten Bormann , "Henry S. Thompson" CC: "art@ietf.org" , "uri-review@ietf.org" , "dispatch@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [dispatch] [art] [Uri-review] Internet-Draft: Using URIs With Multiple Transport Stacks Thread-Index: AdL2j89KknngpoFTRaiO7w0jXk0ylAApAZzNAVrJRIAAKg3LgAAArVag Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2017 09:12:47 +0000 Message-ID: References: <2A71B82F-4A5C-4F09-ADDB-2DD50742D14A@tzi.org> <7bddc0af-25df-93ba-a682-43fce63c4022@nostrum.com> In-Reply-To: <7bddc0af-25df-93ba-a682-43fce63c4022@nostrum.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: nostrum.com; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;nostrum.com; dmarc=none action=none header.from=microsoft.com; x-originating-ip: [2001:67c:1232:144:f040:15e5:6be1:892c] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; MWHPR21MB0509; 7: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 x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 3f4b8bec-462d-45c0-1d8f-08d4cb61a8e9 x-ms-office365-filtering-ht: Tenant x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:; 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charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: microsoft.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 15 Jul 2017 09:12:47.1417 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 72f988bf-86f1-41af-91ab-2d7cd011db47 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: MWHPR21MB0509 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dispatch] [art] [Uri-review] Internet-Draft: Using URIs With Multiple Transport Stacks X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2017 09:12:50 -0000 QWRhbSBSb2FjaCB3cm90ZToNCj4gSSB0aGluayB5b3Ugc3RvcHBlZCBxdW90aW5nIHRoZSBwYXJh Z3JhcGggYmVmb3JlIGl0IGdvdCB0byBzb21ldGhpbmcgaGlnaGx5IHJlbGV2YW50IGZvciBDb0FQ OiANCj4gIi4uLnRoZXJlIGFyZSBzZXJpb3VzIGRyYXdiYWNrcyB0byBuYW1pbmcgdGhlIHNhbWUg cmVzb3VyY2Ugd2l0aCBtb3JlIHRoYW4gb25lIFVSSS4uLiIgIEkgZG8gDQo+IHNlZSB0aGF0IHRo ZSBUQ1AgZHJhZnQgYXMgc3VibWl0dGVkIGZvciBjb25zaWRlcmF0aW9uIHRyaWVzIHRvIGRlYWwg d2l0aCB0aGlzIGJ5IG1ha2luZyBtYWtpbmcgDQo+IHRoZSBUQ1Atb25seSBzY2hlbWVzIHVzZSBh IGRpZmZlcmVudCBuYW1lc3BhY2UgdGhhbiB0aGUgb3JpZ2luYWwgc2NoZW1lcywgYnV0IHRoaXMg bG9va3MgbGlrZQ0KPiBhIHNsZWlnaHQgb2YgaGFuZDogaW4gcHJhY3RpY2UsIGl0IHNlZW1zIGhp Z2hseSBsaWtlbHkgdGhhdCBzZXJ2ZXJzIHdpbGwgbmVlZCB0byBtYWtlIHJlc291cmNlcw0KPiBh dmFpbGFibGUgdG8gYm90aCBUQ1Atb25seSBjbGllbnRzIGFuZCBVRFAtb25seSBjbGllbnRzLCB3 aGljaCBtYWtlcyB0aGlzIGtpbmQgb2YgYWxpYXNpbmcgaW5ldml0YWJsZS4NCj4NCj4gSSBkbyBu b3QgYmVsaWV2ZSB0aGUgInRhY3RpY2FsIHZlcnN1cyBzdHJhdGVnaWMiIGRpc3RpbmN0aW9uIHlv dSdyZSB0cnlpbmcgdG8gZHJhdyBoZXJlIGhhcyBhbnkgYmVhcmluZw0KPiBvbiB0aGF0IGFzcGVj dCBvZiBVUkwgdXNlLg0KDQpPQ0YgZGVmaW5lcyBhIGhpZ2hlciBsYXllciBVUkkgd2hpY2ggaXMg dGhlIHNhbWUgcmVnYXJkbGVzcyBvZiB3aGljaCB0cmFuc3BvcnQgeW91IHVzZSAoQ09BUCBvdmVy DQpVRFAsIENPQVAgb3ZlciBUQ1AsIEhUVFAsIHdoYXRldmVyIGVsc2UpIGZvciB0aGUgcmVhc29u cyB5b3UgYWxsdWRlIHRvLCBidXQgdGhhdCBVUkkgaXMgYXQgdGhlIA0KbGF5ZXIgdGhhdCBhcHBz IHNob3VsZCB1c2UgKHdoaWNoIEkgdGFrZSBpdCBpcyB3aGF0IENhcnN0ZW4gY2FsbHMgInN0cmF0 ZWdpYyIpLiAgIEJ1dCB0aGF0IGhhcyB0byBiZSByZXNvbHZlZA0KdG8gYSBzZXQgb2YgdHJhbnNw b3J0IGVuZHBvaW50cywgYW5kIGluIHNvbWUgY2FzZXMgdGhlIHRyYW5zcG9ydCBlbmRwb2ludHMg YXJlIGFscmVhZHkgZXhwcmVzc2VkDQp2aWEgVVJJcyAoZS5nLiwgYSB3ZWJzb2NrZXQpLiAgIFRo YXQncyB0aGUgbGF5ZXIgdGhhdCBJIHRoaW5rIENhcnN0ZW4gaXMgY2FsbGluZyAidGFjdGljYWwi LiAgIEEgZGlmZmVyZW50DQp0ZXJtaW5vbG9neSBtaWdodCBiZSBpZCB2cyBsb2NhdG9yLCB3aGVy ZSBVUklzIGFyZSBhbHNvIHVzZWQgZm9yIGxvY2F0b3JzIGluIHRoYXQgc2Vuc2UuICAgVGhhdCdz DQp3aGF0IHRoZSBDT0FQLVRDUCBkcmFmdCBpcyBkb2luZy4uLiBkZWZpbmluZyBzY2hlbWVzIHVz YWJsZSBmb3IgbG9jYXRvcnMgdW5kZXJuZWF0aCBpZHMuICAgT25lIHBvaW50DQppbiBteSBkb2Mg aXMgdGhhdCB0aGVyZSBjYW4gYmUgbXVsdGlwbGUgbGF5ZXJzIG5vdCBqdXN0IHR3byAoaWQgdnMg bG9jYXRvcikgYW5kIHNvIHVzaW5nIFVSSXMgYXQgZWFjaCANCmxheWVyIGFsbG93cyBzdWNoIGNo YWluaW5nL3N0YWNraW5nLg0KDQpEYXZlDQo= From nobody Sat Jul 15 09:14:17 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36FB2129AD3 for ; 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Sat, 15 Jul 2017 09:14:13 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.103.126.196 with HTTP; Sat, 15 Jul 2017 09:14:12 -0700 (PDT) From: "Murray S. Kucherawy" Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2017 09:14:12 -0700 Message-ID: To: DISPATCH list Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="f4030437a8ace7f31005545d74f9" Archived-At: Subject: [dispatch] Slides! (was Re: IETF 99 DISPATCH agenda posted) X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2017 16:14:16 -0000 --f4030437a8ace7f31005545d74f9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Tue, Jul 11, 2017 at 12:29 AM, Murray S. Kucherawy wrote: > > I'm on the hook for coordinating the slide decks and will be arriving in > Prague late Sunday, so I'll need more than a couple of jet-lagged hours to > assemble everything. Therefore, if you have an assigned slot, please get > your slides to dispatch-chairs@ietf.org by the end of Friday, July 14. I > will be unable to accept late submissions or last-minute USB stick > presentations. > > We do not yet have slide decks from all presenters. If you plan to show slides during your presentation, please send them immediately. -MSK --f4030437a8ace7f31005545d74f9 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Tue, Jul 11, 2017 at 12:29 AM, Murray S. Kucherawy <= superuser@gmail.com> wrote:

I'm on the hook for coordinating the slide d= ecks and will be arriving in Prague late Sunday, so I'll need more than= a couple of jet-lagged hours to assemble everything.=C2=A0 Therefore, if y= ou have an assigned slot, please get your slides to dispatch-chairs@ietf.org by the = end of Friday, July 14.=C2=A0 I will be unable to accept late submissions o= r last-minute USB stick presentations.


We do not yet have slide decks from all present= ers.=C2=A0 If you plan to show slides during your presentation, please send= them immediately.

-MSK
--f4030437a8ace7f31005545d74f9-- From nobody Mon Jul 17 01:34:09 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A50B131A95 for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 01:34:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.22 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.22 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UW26wKpIhkVg for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 01:34:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6183A131AD7 for ; 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Cross posting, since the following proposal&n= bsp;is also art related, want to solicit = ;feedback from art area as well. Thanks = Dan for good suggestion.

Sent from HUAWEI AnyOffice
=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA Qin Wu
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA tsv-area@ietf.org;
=B3=AD=CB=CD=A3=BA =D6=A3=BB=D4;
=D6=F7=CC=E2=A3=BA Proposal for revising RFC4445 or make RFC444= 5bis
=CA=B1=BC=E4=A3=BA 2017-07-17 07:39:46


Hi, All:

We like to get a sense of this idea, more than 10 years ago, at the time= of RFC4445 writing,

The popularity of delivery of streaming media over packet swtiched netwo= rk has just began,

not all implementations support QoS methods to improve media delivery. M= any service

delivery systems may compose the network with QoS support or without QoS= support. This add difficulty on characterizing dynamic behavior of the net= work.

 

10 years have passed, we see most of widely deployed implementions have = adopted various different QoS mechanisms

such as diffserv Intserv, Traffic Engineering, providing QoS guarantee t= o improve delivery of media streaming,

especially for time senestive or loss senstive application become a must= ; Therefore we see a lot of value of MDI defined in RFC4445 since it provid= e s a handy diagnostic tool for operators and service providers to measure = the peformance of the network carrying streaming media and quickly identify fault in the network.

 

Today we also see many service providers begain to offer on de= mand streaming media service, many operator deployed CDN in the last mile t= o provide better SLA, or provide hybrid TV service, in addition more and mo= re real time application not limited to IPTV application, VOIP application have been developed,network monitoring and n= etwork troubleshooting began more and more complicated and costy. We h= ear a lot of operators get hurted and want to have a common tool to help th= em to measure performance in this kind of networks and provider better troubleshooting.

 

Another observation is today more and more implementations have adopted = packet loss repair methods to improve media delivery.

However MDI defined in RFC4445 doesn't take into acount of various diffe= rent packet loss repair mechanims, in addition, RFC4445 is only designed fo= r monitoring MPEG Transport Stream (TS) packets over UDP and fall short to = addressing needs in hybrid senarios or on demand streaming media scenarios.

 

In addition, we see at the time of RFC4445 publication, IESG doesn't rec= ommend this standard, mostly becos RFC4445 doesn't define complete Metric a= nd clarify the relationship with existing IETF work such as RFC3611 and RFC= 3933, I am wondering if it is a good idea to revise RFC4445 to address IESG concern today and in addition = fill new needs in today's service deployment.

Comments and suggestions?

 

-Qin

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NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Qvzrhp6TpI4v for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 07:43:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from softronics.hoeneisen.ch (softronics.hoeneisen.ch [62.2.86.178]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AF33D131C2A for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 07:43:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=localhost) by softronics.hoeneisen.ch with esmtp (Exim 4.86_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dX7FF-0006FK-2P for dispatch@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 16:43:33 +0200 Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2017 16:43:33 +0200 (CEST) From: Bernie Hoeneisen X-X-Sender: bhoeneis@softronics.hoeneisen.ch To: IETF DISPATCH list Message-ID: User-Agent: Alpine 2.20 (DEB 67 2015-01-07) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; BOUNDARY="37663318-215620151-1500302613=:22991" X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 127.0.0.1 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: bernie@ietf.hoeneisen.ch X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on softronics.hoeneisen.ch); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Archived-At: Subject: [dispatch] =?utf-8?q?=5Bsaag=5D_BarBoF=3A_opportunistic_encryptio?= =?utf-8?q?n_with_p=E2=89=A1p_on_Thu_2017-07-20_19=3A30_CEST_starting_room?= =?utf-8?q?_Tyrolka=2C_ending_in_a_bar_=3B-=29_=28fwd=29?= X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2017 14:43:38 -0000 This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. --37663318-215620151-1500302613=:22991 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Hi, After the short outline on opportunistic encryption with pEp at the end of today's dispatch session (by Volker Birk), we'd like to inform you that Volker will present the topic in the SAAG session on Thursday afternoon. For those of you who want to know even more about the pEp system, you are cordially invited to join the BarBOF with a demo on Thu 19:30 in room Tyrolka; followed by Q&A and discussion, likely ending in a bar (see also below). Looking forward to meeting you on Thursday! cheers Bernie -- http://ucom.ch/ Modern Telephony Solutions and Tech Consulting for Internet Technology ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2017 16:10:00 From: Volker Birk To: saag Subject: [saag] BarBoF: opportunistic encryption with p≡p on Thu 2017-07-20 19:30 CEST starting room Tyrolka, ending in a bar ;-) Hi, following the intro being delivered in the SAAG Open Meeting starting 13:30: https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/99/agenda/agenda-99-saag-02.txt for people being interested in oportunistic encryption of email and instant messaging p≡p is offering a short workshop in room Tyrolka on Mezzanine level on Thursday, 20th of July 2017 19:30 CEST for all pre-beer questions. Post-beer questions (and beer) will be served in a bar nearby subsequently ;-) We're happy to receive all people being interested in this topic and all surrounding technical fields. However, personally I would be most happy to have people delivering strong opinions and frank critics ;-) Yours, VB. -- Volker Birk, p≡p project mailto:vb@pep.foundation https://pep-project.org --37663318-215620151-1500302613=:22991-- From nobody Mon Jul 17 08:13:53 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7CA6126D73 for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 08:13:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.88 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.88 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, T_SPF_HELO_PERMERROR=0.01, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5a_s1hm_yMjh for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 08:13:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B3EAE1200FC for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 08:13:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dhcp-9bb5.meeting.ietf.org (dhcp-9bb5.meeting.ietf.org [31.133.155.181]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id v6HFDghT002158 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 10:13:44 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from mahoney@nostrum.com) To: DISPATCH list From: "A. Jean Mahoney" Message-ID: <74a32e29-ed58-70c7-db1c-b7bd55671205@nostrum.com> Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2017 17:13:41 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.12; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: [dispatch] IETF 99 DISPATCH meeting notes - raw X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2017 15:13:52 -0000 Hi all, Below are my raw notes from the meeting this morning. Things I missed I marked with ... Thanks! Jean --------------------------------------------------------------------- DISPATCH WG Session IETF 99 — Prague, Czech Republic July 17, 2017 09:30-11:30, Congress III --------------------------------------------------------------------- 09:30 Administrivia - Chairs (5 min) Agenda bashing; blue sheets; jabber scribe; note taker https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/99/slides/slides-99-dispatch-chair-slide-deck-00.pdf Mary Barnes presented chair slides. slide 1: Title slide 2: Administrivia Note takers: John Levine, Jean Mahoney Jabber scribe: Rich Salz slide 3: NOTE WELL This is the old NOTE WELL slide slide 4: NOTE WELL, in other words slide 5: Deadlines for IETF 100 Mary: Charter proposals don't have to be formal - need a problem statement - what problem do you want to solve? slide 6: Working With Deadlines slide 7: A Reminder about Mailing Lists 09:35 Updates from Area Directors - ADs (5 min) slide 8: Updates from Area Directors Ben Campbell: The CELLAR meeting is happening this IETF. It's like a solar eclipse, it's a once in a lifetime occurrence. Murray Kucherawy: appsawg is closed. --------------------------------------------------------------------- 09:40 Web Packaging - Jeffrey Yasskin (30 min) https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/99/slides/slides-99-dispatch-web-packaging-00.pdf https://github.com/WICG/webpackage Jeffrey Yasskin presented. Mark Nottingham: First I thought - just do it in the w3c, but after some thinking, some work can be done here. Some history - W3C TAG has a doc that covered this but died. It's not the first time this has been proposed. I can see a place for this work in the IETF. Split this into components. A format to persist HTTP requests/responses. Need to assert that a request/response pair is from an authority. Then there's the glue that ties that to your work cases. The first two components are protocol - could do that here. the gluey stuff can be done in W3C. First two items can go to the ... Cullen Jennings: By gluey stuff, do you mean signatures? Mark: No, that's #2. We're talking about it in HTTPBIS right now. ... Cullen: What should be done here? Mark: we can ... We can assert that request/response pair came from an authority. But how browsers can support those - that's out of scope for us. Murray: This is all in HTTP? or other WG? Mark: My kind co-chair pointed out that ... There are pit falls around use cases. This is HTTP. Murray: you would recharter? Mark: Sure we can do it. We don't recharter much. We just determine whether we want to work on new drafts. Don't know if that surprised our AD or not. Making this protocol neutral would be a mistake. Phillip Hallam-Baker (PHB): Is there a proper specification for MHTML? Jeffrey: No. PHB: You need to fix that. I don't think this should go into HTTP. We're already doing two sessions here. Packaging is separate. I'm working on something related: think about having everything encrypted and stays encrypted. I'm doing this. I'm not using the encryption you know. We can talk offline. Jeffrey: The first two cases don't work with encryption. PHB: I've got it running. Magnus Westerlund: Have you read out-of-band encoding? It's solving the same. Martin Thomson: This has been pitched umpteen times. This isn't about packaging. It's about the 2 use cases that Mark mentions. Having to guess what someone might ask for and when - is a challenge. Lot of debate about push and getting it to work. In a narrow context maybe. Another ... we've tilted at the signatures windmill. I don't have the stomach for it anymore. If we can work out the preservation problem ... maybe. Eric Rescorla (ekr): It was a hack in PUSH. Request and response are milliseconds apart. Passivation - here's like the request that ... that's an odd structure for what's basically a zip file. It makes sense in push. You have very preprocessed data. Treating it like a stored http session. I don't know why that's an attractive solution. Security - the http credentials are there for you to sign for the long term. If you allow the https signature to span weeks, it creates weaknesses. Daniel K Gillmor (DKG): The idea that you are shipping web-based apps. There's a long history with linux distributions, ... they still get it wrong with dependencies. You mentioned downgrade attacks. Jeffrey: It's not designed fully. Daniel: And this is not designed fully in Debian, and it's not designed fully for other distributions, etc., and they are centralized. You are talking distributed. Look at folks who have prior art. Language-based package distribution. Linux distribution systems 10 years ago. Patrick McManus: IETF is not the right venue for this ... Murray: Alexey, what are you thoughts? Alexey: If this goes to HTTPBIS, I will have some say. We need more fleshed out proposal to what the work looks like. I don't want to answer yet. Could go to an existing WG, and WGs to be created. Are people interested? Cullen: OK, one or more working groups. Let's hear people at the mic and then take a hum. Mark: I don't think we should bring into HTTP now. Need more careful description of use cases and breaking down how to solve the use cases. Won't talk at HTTP this week. Love to talk about this. We should also talk to W3C before we take it on. Martin: Mark has captured my thoughts - I want clarity in requirements. We have a big ball of wax and a big ball wax to address it. Framing as packaging is problematic. DKG: I wanted to clarify my thoughts - if you define signature formats without understanding what needs to be signed, or not signed - you build a dangerous thing. Jeffrey: ... defines a packaged ... Murray: You can discuss on the art mailing list first. Ben Schwartz: This is relevant to my needs and applications, it serves people ... Paul Hoffman: People misinterpret signed packages. It sounds like you are mimicking ... If you had given the query at this time, you would have gotten this - and froze it. If you close and open the browser hours later - some things would have changed and maybe died. If the signature says to you ... For the hum - ask, if you saw one of these things, would you be able to use it. I can use it if it was unsigned. Signing will be easy to misinterpret. ekr: Just start with use case and requirements doc. Chop the bottom of the doc off. Cullen: The feedback I'm hearing - There's work to be done, but not start working group today. The question we have - we'll discuss on the work list. Who will work on this? (about 10 hands). Alexey? Cullen - anyone have problems with discussion on the mailing list? And if there's lots of discussion, we'll move it to a separate mailing list. Rich Salz: People in the Jabber room are saying have a bof. Cullen: That's an option or dispatch. When we look at it, it will become obvious. --------------------------------------------------------------------- 10:10 DNS Over HTTPS - Paul Hoffman (40 min) https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/99/slides/slides-99-dispatch-dns-over-https-00.pdf draft-hoffman-dispatch-dns-over-https Magnus: how do you control the resolver? Patrick: the bootstrapping of finding the DNS server? Magnus: is it the site ... Patrick: one use case - instead of a stub. Bootstrap through an OS. ... It applies in the browser context. Could be an application-specific configuration. Discovery problems are out of scope for this. Magnus: the privacy aspects of this mechanism, who has control of which HTTP server responds and where it gets cached. Patrick: The clients have this problem right now. This work doesn't sort out which DNS server is used. To use data from this mechanism will require further work in HTTP. This is how to carry DNS info in HTTP. That's the extent of it. Magnus: I'm worried about punting on the use of this and the privacy considerations. Paul: it's no different from what it is going now. Patrick: it's an improvement for privacy. Mark: I think it's good, and well scoped and it's good to punt on the use right now. I have feedback. Patrick: Feedback on http on this would be good. Mark: there's discussion on jabber on why h2 and not legacy. I think it's good to specify a version, be careful with language, though, http1 is still in use, it's not legacy. Patrick: ... Mark: what if peers downgrade to http1? That may happen. Dave Lawrence: I agree with Mark on this is good and I like what is going so far. I don't agree on punting on the use cases. DNS encapsulation format will be tempting for browser vendors for pushing more DNS data down the pipe. Needs to be clarified. What are we doing via ... Paul: do you want to see more in this draft? Dave: Acknowledge the issue. It's a competing idea. The issue needs to be identified and implications. Ted Hardie: If you find your DNS server by an existing server and treat it as recursive. Why doesn't it fold into dprive? When you blend with http services, it becomes a dprive mechanism that doesn't use dprive. What doesn't work in dprive and why? Paul: this isn't simply about privacy, which is the goal of dprive. It would require rechartering dprive. Ted: you are creating a new substrate for the DNS protocol that provides privacy. Keith Moore: this seems like a can of worms. My concern is that it forks DNS. A special set of DNS servers intended for web applications. You are providing a web specific interface to DNS. Doesn't have to be used like that. DNS is already polluted enough as it is. Interception proxies, servers that only serve parts of domains. I don't want to see another fork. Patrick: web apps are near and dear to my heart - my hope that OS libraries will do this. But you get better mixing with http traffic, which has strong properties, better privacy properties. Paul: this is not intended to do the split you are worried about it. Could be same server with the same data. It would be easy to add for another transport. Keith: I'm worried about unintended consequences. From the jabber room: John Klensin MIC: I'm trying to figure out what it would mean to use content negotiation to select variants (as one of the slides indicated) given that the DNS does not support a "give me all the aliases for this name" function (much less their properties). The draft talks about alternatives, but doesn't seem to say. Could you talk a bit more about that? Paul: content negotiation is not for different names, its for the format - wire format or JSON. If it's not clear in the draft it should be, he's right you don't get to say. Yoav Nir: ... why is that? Paul: with regular DNS - can see the DNS traffic and block it. With dprive, you can tell it's a DNS session, and block it. With this you can't. Nir: trying to get past evil firewall. Paul: not the only use case, but yes. Nir: the same firewalls will negotiate client servers down to http1. If this draft won't accept http1 - Patrick: We can talk about it in the draft. Nir: When is post used? Patrick: ... enables media negotiation in a better way. The other has better caching properties. In scope for discussion and building consensus ... John Klensin: MIC: Thanks. And, yes the draft says "alternative" but the slide said "variants" and that term has taken on a special meaning where the DNS is concerned. "alternatives", but the slide said "variants" which has taken on a special meaning WRT the DNS. DKG: I support this work. Having something like Doe(?) would be useful. I'm concerned about content negotiations. You can't validate DNSSEC over JSON, only over wire format. Paul: if someone wanted to create a smaller and different format they can. Mandatory to implement will be wire format. DKG: ... useful simplification to get this out the door. The non-UDP wire format doesn't have a way to handle DNSSEC signatures. I'm glad that discovery is not in this. I'm not sure about arbitrary end points. ... .wellknown. I appreciate http2. ekr: I'm sad that we're talking about this as we are finishing dprive. It's a superset of dprive. Want to push on mixture on DNS and http. Maybe with google you can get this. Patrick: any widespread CDN ekr: because Akamai serves Facebook ... ? Paul: ... your connection in the coffee shop. ekr: the coffee shop controls my IP address, not the Akamai servers. What actual settings does this happen in? Paul: we don't have it now, but could with CDNs. Patrick: ... more than a tunnel. ekr: I'm not sure this is a good way of hiding the traffic. You're lying that you doing DNS. Paul: I'm using 443. ekr: the enforcer ... Paul: if you are on 443, you may be pushing more than pictures of cats, you may be doing something else. Jonathan Lennox: ekr: want to see use case descriptions for dprive ++ and ... They have different security requirements. ... pushing the resolver into the browser. back to the hypothetical. Bron Gondwana: Thunderbird doesn't do DNS lookups. 2nd point ... 3rd point - wire format will be more difficult to do, unlike JSON. Having a format that's easier to implement would be good. Ben Schwartz - there are 2 - open resolve, dns.google.com, an argument for standardization. Jonathan: Can a java script implementation can do this without the browser knowing? Paul: yes. Murray: want to talk about next steps. Cullen: we're struggling here - how much this relates to dprive and how much in new wg, or not doing it. AD? Alexey: Art ADs will talk to Int and Sec ADs about dprive. Don't have an answer now. It's clear there is some interest. Need to find a place for it. Cullen: show of hands willing to read drafts and do work. Wow - tons. --------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------- ARTAREA Session --------------------------------------------------------------------- 10:50 BoF Summaries - various artists (5 min) Murray: didn't get replies from bof chairs. Anyone want to talk about these? (No one volunteered) BANANA - BANdwidth Aggregation for interNet Access (int) IDEAS - IDentity Enabled Networks (rtg) IASA20 - IASA 2.0 (gen) NETSLICING - Network slicing (ops) --------------------------------------------------------------------- 10:55 New Working Group Summaries -various artists (5 min) DCRUP - DKIM crypto update Murray: upgrading size of keys and how to move them. May only meet once or twice it its lifetime. Meets Thursday. Rich (?): we've shifted the meeting time and it shares a time with DMARC, it will now start at 10:30 --------------------------------------------------------------------- 11:00 Using URIs With Multiple Transport Stacks - Dave Thaler (15 min) draft-thaler-appsawg-multi-transport-uris Jonathan: maybe SIP is an anti-pattern, transport=tcp. Dave: the argument for the anti-pattern, the ... (info is for the server? the client has already made a transport choice.) point is talked about in the doc. Carsten: why need them for the protocol that runs over CORE, it sees something like transport in the URI, it confuses them. Dave: The point of the doc is not to make recommendations, just document ways to solve it and document the tradeoffs. PHB: we have a doc that describes how to use SRV records for discovery. I like the idea of taking all the cruft and explaining it. Every wg has a discussion on discovery. I'd like to come to an agreement on how to do it. When I define a web service, I get my name, my URI, my ... prefix. ... I don't want a URI that has the same name. I want one solution for discovery. Dave: challenge on finding one solution. Keith: I feel like I've gone back to 1993. This is the URN problem again. The result, sad to say, was to create a huge mess. I want to believe it's over with, but it's not. I don't want to discourage you. There's something dangerous here or elusive about the problem space. Everyone looks at the layer of indirection and then projects ideas of what they want on it. Hard to create anything coherent. When you define an identifier scheme, and then later you try to change what it means. For example, IPv4 addresses - Class A, B or C, and remaining bits. And we had to change classes, and now we have NATs. Adding Layers of indirection break things. URNs let you tell the difference between schemes, how do you keep people from inserting layers of indirection? John Klensin MIC: Dave, seems to me that halfway to your 4th approach is to focus on identification the resource and go with URNs, allowing the protocol to be sorted out as part of the resolution mechanism.. but that is still a URI, not a different mechanism Mark: it's appropriate to give this kind of advice. There are cases that are different. Different requirements from different protocols. Documenting these tradeoffs is important. I encourage you to look into this area. This is part of a larger problem, which is how to identify protocols. Dave: there are 2 audiences - IETF, and the other for people who don't have permanent schemes. Murray: This is an art area discussion, it's not being dispatched. Alexey: Can it be done in dispatch? There's an exception for IANA-related things. Chairs: no. Mary: do you want to AD sponsor it? Barry Leiba: Do we just want an informational doc, or do we want to come up with an answer with a BCP? I'm leaning toward BCP, and AD sponsoring it won't do it. Dave: 2 efforts - updating requirements for permanent registration ... Adam Roach: Get input from the art community on the art mailing list. Then we can circle back. PHB: mapping the swamp is a good way to start to find the path. --------------------------------------------------------------------- 11:15 Hybrid Video Content - Roni Even (10 min) draft-huang-dispatch-hybrid-video-delivery Cullen: of the people who build these systems, are they willing to switch systems to use a new IETF solution? Are there people who will participate? (3 people raised hands). Magnus: this is too fluffy. It's a question of which of several different problems - how to invoke multicast from browsers? does the multicast transfer protocols have the right features? do the meta data in MPEG...? It's easy to step over borders, and the people are in other fora. Roni: we need to understand the generality, source to receiver. I don't think it's been discussed in IETF. We can start with more info on the structure. If there is no interest, no point of writing docs. Keith: I started out thinking that this is an MPEG problem. There may be role for collaboration between MPEG and IETF. Best you can hope for is some sort of MPEG ... if the format is not amenable to slicing and dicing, not much you can do. Roni: trying to see how to transfer in a better way. We see this problem in live video, MPEG doesn't address this issue. Need to provide the whole view. Murray: we should encourage discussion on art list. --------------------------------------------------------------------- 11:25 Open Microphone/AOB (remaining time; TBD) Possible topics: - TBD Volker Birk: We've implemented opportunistic encryption of chat messages and email. We are trying now to get what we are doing into an open standard. Maybe you want to have a look at what we're doing. We have a protocol stack that syncs keys and trust, and addresses and schedule. Internally in our database, peer-2-peer, always local. we are using URI schemes that are not standardized. We have message formats that are not available in openPGP and SMIME. We have ... (https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/saag/current/msg07789.html) Murray: Submit drafts if you have any and then post to the art list. Matthew Miller: You should contact the XMPP standards foundation. From nobody Mon Jul 17 08:14:41 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1149131C21 for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 08:14:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.88 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.88 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, T_SPF_HELO_PERMERROR=0.01, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 08ATIukLpJAN for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 08:14:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8AEE8131C3C for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 08:14:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dhcp-9bb5.meeting.ietf.org (dhcp-9bb5.meeting.ietf.org [31.133.155.181]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id v6HFEVk6002224 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 10:14:32 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from mahoney@nostrum.com) To: DISPATCH list From: "A. Jean Mahoney" Message-ID: <33a165b5-d6c4-b1be-fe68-f4ba94bc2d7f@nostrum.com> Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2017 17:14:30 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.12; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: [dispatch] IETF 99 DISPATCH meeting notes - summary X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2017 15:14:40 -0000 Hi all, Here are my notes all summarized and compact. Thanks! Jean --------------------------------------------------------------------- DISPATCH WG Session IETF 99 — Prague, Czech Republic July 17, 2017 09:30-11:30, Congress III --------------------------------------------------------------------- 09:30 Administrivia - Chairs (5 min) Mary Barnes presented chair slides. Note takers: John Levine, Jean Mahoney. Jabber scribe: Rich Salz Mary reminded people that charter proposals don't have to be formal. Ben Campbell announced that CELLAR was actually meeting this week. Murray announced that APPSAWG is closed. --------------------------------------------------------------------- 09:40 Web Packaging - Jeffrey Yasskin (30 min) https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/99/slides/slides-99-dispatch-web-packaging-00.pdf https://github.com/WICG/webpackage Mark Nottingham felt that two aspects of the problem could be worked on - A format to persist HTTP requests/responses, and the ability to assert that a request/response pair is from an authority (signatures). Phillip Hallam-Baker wanted a proper specification for MHTML first. Magnus Westerlund suggested that Jeffrey read about out-of-band encoding. Martin Thomson declared that the problem had been pitched numerous times. Eric Rescorla pointed out that there were security issues with allowing an HTTPS signature to span weeks. Daniel Gillmor brought up the flavors of Linux distributions and that they still don't handle dependencies well and they were centralized, unlike this solution. Patrick McManus did not feel the IETF was the right venue for this. Mark would love to discuss it further and felt it could go to HTTPBIS working group, just not now. It needed a careful description of use cases and solutions to those use cases. The W3C should also be consulted before the IETF took the work on. Daniel said that there needed to be a better understanding of what needed to be signed. Ben Schwartz supported the work. Paul Hoffman said that people misinterpret the meaning of signed packages, and wanted to know if people could use them. Eric wanted to start with just the use cases and the requirements. People in the Jabber room said that it should have a BOF. Cullen asked how many people were interested in working on this problem. About 10 hands raised. Murray said the discussion could continue on the art mailing list. Cullen said if the discussion got too heavy, a new mailing list could be spun up. ACTION: Continue discussion on ART mailing list. --------------------------------------------------------------------- 10:10 DNS Over HTTPS - Paul Hoffman (40 min) https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/99/slides/slides-99-dispatch-dns-over-https-00.pdf draft-hoffman-dispatch-dns-over-https Magnus wanted to know how the resolver was controlled, and who has control of which HTTP server responds, and had concerns about and privacy. Patrick said that discovery problems are out of scope, but it provides an improvement for privacy. Mark thought the draft was good, well-scoped and agreed on punting on the use right now. He said that the draft should take care not to call http1 legacy. It is still in use. Mark also raised the issue of the peers downgrading to http1 - what would happen? Dave Lawrence like the draft so far but did not agree with dropping the use cases. (Dave also mentioned that there was a competing idea [which the note taker failed capture] that should be acknowledged in the draft. Ted Hardie wanted to know why DPRIVE wouldn't work. Paul said that this solution wasn't simply about privacy and taking it to DPRIVE would require rechartering. Keith Moore felt that this solution forked DNS, that there would be web-specific interfaces. John Klensin asked about content negotiation. Paul clarified that it was for format (like wire format or JSON), not different names. Yoav Nir had a question [missed by note taker], that Paul responded that DPRIVE traffic could be identified and blocked. With this solution, DNS traffic could not be identified. Nir also brought up the fact that intermediaries could downgrade http2 connections to http1, and that the draft should discuss what to do there. Nir asked when was POST used. Patrick responded that POST enables media negotiation in a better way, while GET had better caching properties, but it was up for discussion. Daniel supported the work, and recommended having something like doe [?]. Daniel pointed out that you can't validate DNSSEC over JSON, only over wire format. Paul said that wire format would be mandatory to implement. Daniel was also glad that discovery was not in scope, that http2 was specified, but wasn't sure about arbitrary endpoints and mentioned something about .wellknown. Eric was sad that this was being discussed just as DPRIVE was finishing, and wanted to know the settings in which HTTP and DNS could be mixed. He didn't feel that this was a good way of hiding traffic. Eric wanted to see use cases. Bron Gondwana pointed out that Thunderbird doesn't do DNS lookups and that wire format would be more difficult to implement, unlike JSON [he had another point that the note taker missed.] Ben Schwartz pointed out there were two independent attempts to solve this issue and it would be good to standardize. Jonathan asked a question about ports and wanted to know if a java script implementation could do this without the browser knowing, the answer is yes. Cullen asked for a show of hands of who was willing to read drafts and do work. Many, many hands raised. ACTIONS: Art ADs will talk with Int and Sec ADs about DPRIVE, and will look for a place for it. --------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------- ARTAREA Session --------------------------------------------------------------------- 10:50 BoF Summaries - various artists (5 min) BANANA - BANdwidth Aggregation for interNet Access (int) IDEAS - IDentity Enabled Networks (rtg) IASA20 - IASA 2.0 (gen) NETSLICING - Network slicing (ops) No volunteers to provide summaries. --------------------------------------------------------------------- 10:55 New Working Group Summaries -various artists (5 min) DCRUP - DKIM crypto update The WG is sharing time with DMARC and is meeting at 10:30. --------------------------------------------------------------------- 11:00 Using URIs With Multiple Transport Stacks - Dave Thaler (15 min) draft-thaler-appsawg-multi-transport-uris Dave highlighted that the point of the draft was not to make recommendations, just capture the ways the problem has been solved and detail the trade offs. Phillip wanted a draft that provided a single solution. Keith Moore pointed out there was issues with changing the meaning of identifier schemes, and that layers of indirection are added later. Mark felt that it was appropriate to give this kind of advice and said that a larger problem was how to identify protocols. Barry Leiba felt that maybe it should be a BCP not just an informational doc. ACTION: Get input from the community on the art mailing list. --------------------------------------------------------------------- 11:15 Hybrid Video Content - Roni Even (10 min) draft-huang-dispatch-hybrid-video-delivery https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/99/slides/slides-99-dispatch-video-delivery-in-hybrid-network-00.pdf Magnus felt the draft was too fluffy, covering several different problems, and it overlapped with the work in other fora. Keith thought that there may be a role for collaboration between MPEG and IETF. Cullen asked, of the people who build these systems, who would be willing to implement a new IETF solution and who would participate. 3 hands raised. ACTION: Chairs to encourage discussion the mailing list. --------------------------------------------------------------------- 11:25 Open Microphone/AOB Volker Birk from pretty Easy privacy (pEp) foundation spoke briefly about his foundation's opportunistic encryption application for chat and email. They are interested in making it an open standard. More information can be found here: https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/saag/current/msg07789.html Murray recommended that they submit drafts and post to the art list. Matthew Miller suggested that they also talk to the XMPP standards foundation. From nobody Fri Jul 21 15:02:55 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CD4C128A32 for ; Fri, 21 Jul 2017 15:02:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=yandex.ru Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ixny4sSmrg3N for ; Fri, 21 Jul 2017 15:02:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from forward16p.cmail.yandex.net (forward16p.cmail.yandex.net [IPv6:2a02:6b8:0:1465::bf]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 453D7124B0A for ; Fri, 21 Jul 2017 15:02:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mxback2j.mail.yandex.net (mxback2j.mail.yandex.net [IPv6:2a02:6b8:0:1619::10b]) by forward16p.cmail.yandex.net (Yandex) with ESMTP id 7559C21FBB for ; Sat, 22 Jul 2017 01:02:47 +0300 (MSK) Received: from web35j.yandex.ru (web35j.yandex.ru [5.45.198.138]) by mxback2j.mail.yandex.net (nwsmtp/Yandex) with ESMTP id nX6TJDTlZk-2kemD4Fh; Sat, 22 Jul 2017 01:02:47 +0300 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yandex.ru; s=mail; t=1500674567; bh=0F5Hbjl9Hgtx3lGYio273bgw9SYYAwWJK/sYYAX0HD8=; h=From:To:Subject:Message-Id:Date; b=Do5rjqg6AMfNnkWQE53vWDCVZsFsmcUr1iART+7A5eKd7yHvqDFdJ9/M+J28rDW30 SJnvpwD/XpSavYAQrkYSavzmVIZXaaHRnCFxfgrvgO9YuDJwvnQPteNTUNjRrq5LIU 5rtJtJ94qIazYUeH5Yrm+37dizxa+eVLG9yPfuZY= Authentication-Results: mxback2j.mail.yandex.net; dkim=pass header.i=@yandex.ru Received: by web35j.yandex.ru with HTTP; Sat, 22 Jul 2017 01:02:46 +0300 From: Anton Tveretin To: DISPATCH list MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <1930721500674566@web35j.yandex.ru> X-Mailer: Yamail [ http://yandex.ru ] 5.0 Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2017 03:02:46 +0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain Archived-At: Subject: [dispatch] URLs and Protocols (was IETF 99 DISPATCH meeting notes - summary (A. Jean Mahoney)) X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2017 22:02:53 -0000 Hello All, Maybe off-topic, but: This reminds me how SDP defines a protocol stack. Consider a (rather) simple stack: audio/g722(PT=15)/RTP/UDP(port=1505)/IP(10.2.3.4). But SDP transforms it into 3 (or more) lines: m=audio 1505 RTP/AVP 15 c=IN IP4 10.2.3.4 a=rtpmap:15 g722 So introducing new protocols (SCTP, DTLS) into a stack became a problem. We should remember the KISS principle. Regards, Anton From nobody Sun Jul 30 21:18:01 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FD6E131DA1; Sun, 30 Jul 2017 21:17:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.02 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.02 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=arcanedomain.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HcAYwbginZuo; Sun, 30 Jul 2017 21:17:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from homiemail-a9.g.dreamhost.com (homie.mail.dreamhost.com [208.97.132.208]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D505D131D7F; Sun, 30 Jul 2017 21:17:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from homiemail-a9.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by homiemail-a9.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36B4A5BE06D; Sun, 30 Jul 2017 21:17:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=arcanedomain.com; h= subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s= arcanedomain.com; bh=QodkO/7zh0jVZN3+4PRJtfsJVT0=; b=kfahYwjBwW0 QoW8ou19yOvPz6Lq0YDtgY9Icz0ovYC9Zp6MEj8oze2BNOdp3OFdgH2vAEhEg0ks YwxHcRcNC2WqARizOVk80aLJtx1ZcrqzhPAWJAj51aEKmlPBXJysjqicQj7fm9tj 2YLsjcqnXX97DTUU8Uoa2abH1yJyUbPM= Received: from [192.168.1.101] (216-15-112-214.s4564.c3-0.arl-ubr1.sbo-arl.ma.cable.rcncustomer.com [216.15.112.214]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: webmaster@arcanedomain.com) by homiemail-a9.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0C7F65BE06B; Sun, 30 Jul 2017 21:17:51 -0700 (PDT) To: Mark Nottingham , "Henry S. Thompson" Cc: Dave Thaler , "art@ietf.org" , "uri-review@ietf.org" , "dispatch@ietf.org" , Daniel Appelquist , Dan Connolly References: <2BA6A41C-7933-4405-997D-BE2D0DA69CF5@mnot.net> From: Noah Mendelsohn Message-ID: Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2017 00:17:50 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <2BA6A41C-7933-4405-997D-BE2D0DA69CF5@mnot.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dispatch] [Uri-review] Internet-Draft: Using URIs With Multiple Transport Stacks X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2017 04:17:55 -0000 On 7/10/2017 5:30 AM, Mark Nottingham wrote: > Hi Henry, > > Thanks for that. Looping in Noah and Dan (sorry for including you on a list reply!). > > Why was the document left in draft state? Does the current TAG have any interest in progressing a finding like this one? > > Cheers, > A little history on the drafts at: https://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/SchemeProtocols.html There were two of these drafts, the first one dated 16 June 2005 and the second one 21 November 2005. As a newly appointed member of the TAG at the time I found the relationship between URIs to be interesting, somewhat confusing, and as far as I could tell not completely documented. I did not at the time consider myself expert in the nuances, so I decided to write a draft (June version) that set out how I assumed things worked. My assumption was that the relationship was in fact clear. My hope was to set down the rules clearly, and in the process to learn them myself. Discussion at the subsequent TAG meeting made clear that several members had serious concerns with some of what was said, so I wrote the November draft to try to get closer to "the truth" and to capture the advice I'd received. Discussion of the November draft also resulted in strong concerns being expressed, some of which seemed to contradict what I had been advised in June. On a break at the meeting I expressed my newcomer's confusion to someone (probably Dan Connolly) who said: "well, you know that TAG members XXXX, YYYY and ZZZZ famously disagree about this subject?" No, I hadn't known. I thought all Web experts must have agreed on something so fundamental. One aspect of the disagreement was whether schemes and protocols should always be 1-to-1 (modulo incremental versioning of the protocol), but there were other disagreements as well. My perception (not necessarily correct) was that Tim BL preferred that there be (nearly) no new schemes introduced, with use of http/https schemes encouraged wherever possible. The reason, I believe, was so that resourcews could have stable names that wouldn't change even if the protocols used for deployment evolved over time. New protocols would be introduced either as HTTP X.Y, or activated by retrieval via traditional HTTP of a document that would as a consequence of its Content-type and contents lead to further interactions using some new protocol. So, video resources would be named something like http://example.com/myvideo. If some non-HTTP peer-to-peer protocol were to be used, there would be an initial traditional HTTP interaction; the video server would return a document of a Content-type that could convey the instruction to "start using P2P to get the video". In any case, the creation of and confusing debate about the draft TAG finding convinced me that (1) what I had assumed to be a straightforward aspect of the Web that merely needed better documention was in fact subtle and a source of disagreement even among the best experts and (2) that I as a new TAG member who had not been part of the prior debates was not the right person to drive the discussion to consensus. I therefore abandoned work on the drafts and as I recall the TAG did not revisit the topic in its general form during my time in the group. Maybe or maybe not there is useful discussion in either of the drafts, but there was no TAG consensus on either. Furthermore it's not clear that there was more agreement with the 2nd draft than with the first. I hope this is helpful. Noah From nobody Mon Jul 31 08:34:29 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dispatch@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFA0613253D; Mon, 31 Jul 2017 08:34:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.02 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.02 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=arcanedomain.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PkDa3aNe6DH9; Mon, 31 Jul 2017 08:34:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from homiemail-a9.g.dreamhost.com (homie.mail.dreamhost.com [208.97.132.208]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 45401132522; Mon, 31 Jul 2017 08:34:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from homiemail-a9.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by homiemail-a9.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7B425BE06D; Mon, 31 Jul 2017 08:34:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=arcanedomain.com; h= subject:from:to:cc:references:message-id:date:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s= arcanedomain.com; bh=/LvZ9Z5ia3qj0kKEb2yQlBE4pxk=; b=WYzXASju+1n yVJqOBavNwWMPI4lSQvL9PNgd7riSqEW4izbErF4eWrItdRcf2Jo7PBlWPSJc6oe veDOyQYIMbxY6KfIS+ixNezW7aFQmsLst5R9tyKvgKc0O/YpTLwFH/4xplEA0mRl FSWuLKWPsPd8EahoaShU6ph/yT/g9TPw= Received: from [192.168.1.101] (216-15-112-214.s4564.c3-0.arl-ubr1.sbo-arl.ma.cable.rcncustomer.com [216.15.112.214]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: webmaster@arcanedomain.com) by homiemail-a9.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id DF6285BE066; Mon, 31 Jul 2017 08:34:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Noah Mendelsohn To: Mark Nottingham , "Henry S. Thompson" Cc: Dave Thaler , "art@ietf.org" , "uri-review@ietf.org" , "dispatch@ietf.org" , Daniel Appelquist , Dan Connolly References: <2BA6A41C-7933-4405-997D-BE2D0DA69CF5@mnot.net> Message-ID: Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2017 11:34:14 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dispatch] [Uri-review] Internet-Draft: Using URIs With Multiple Transport Stacks X-BeenThere: dispatch@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: DISPATCH Working Group Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2017 15:34:20 -0000 On 7/31/2017 12:17 AM, Noah Mendelsohn wrote: > As a newly appointed member of the TAG at the time I found the relationship > between URIs to be interesting Typo. I meant: "As a newly appointed member of the TAG at the time I found the relationship between URI schemes and Web protocols to be interesting" Noah