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To: dispatch@ietf.org
From: Anders Rundgren <anders.rundgren.net@gmail.com>
Cc: Samuel Erdtman <samuel@erdtman.se>, Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com>, Ben Campbell <ben@nostrum.com>
Message-ID: <4fea5830-dd5a-1709-f0d6-c8af28a78f94@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2018 07:47:13 +0200
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dispatch/fMU5UY9DGHxBrg2H0nay-53owC4>
Subject: [dispatch] JSON Canonicalization Standard
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Hi Dispatchers,

I'm currently trying to develop a JSON Canonicalization Standard as an individual effort: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-rundgren-json-canonicalization-scheme-01
I have been asked by the individual submission editor to get feedback from the SEC and ART directors but they in turn have directed me to the DISPATCH forum, and here I am :-)

There are efforts creating an alternative to JOSE JWS since there are JSON-based protocols not benefiting from being cast into a form converting signed JSON messages into something completely alien to their unsigned counterpart.  However, after a number of iterations and vendor feedback, I have come to the conclusion that the "Missing Link" is not necessary a new signature format but a way to canonicalize [*] JSON data.

The scheme is currently implemented in Java, C#/.NET, Python3 and EcmaScript V6 (https://www.npmjs.com/package/canonicalize).

Related: https://github.com/cyberphone/jws-jcs#combining-detached-jws-with-jcs-json-canonicalization-scheme
If you want to test the jws-jcs signature scheme, an on-line demo is currently available at: https://mobilepki.org/jws-jcs/home

What do you think?

Sincerely,
Anders Rundgren

*] The goal is rather creating a "hashable" JSON representation but since the described scheme does not change data, these terms are effectively interchangeable.


From nobody Mon Aug 20 12:27:47 2018
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Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2018 15:27:30 -0400
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Subject: [dispatch] HTTP, QUIC, proxies, and HELIUM
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--0000000000003a00840573e2e79f
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At the DISPATCH session in Montreal, the chairs suggested reaching out to
this list with a taxonomy of the problems that HELIUM is trying to solve.
Here=E2=80=99s a quick attempt at that. (For more information, see Lucas Pa=
rdue=E2=80=99s
=E2=80=9CHiNT=E2=80=9D draft and slides.)

The starting point is the observation that HTTP/QUIC can forward HTTPS
(with HTTP CONNECT), but cannot forward HTTP/QUIC (because CONNECT is
TCP-only).  The baseline requirement, then, is to enable an HTTP/QUIC
server to forward a QUIC connection.

Although this is the starting use case, it is not the only property that
one might desire.  Some additional goals that we=E2=80=99ve considered incl=
ude

   -

   extending the supported contents to include WebRTC, DNS, or even
   arbitrary IP
   -

   extending the supported substrates to include HTTP/2 or even HTTP/1.1
   -

   extending the performance goals (beyond merely =E2=80=9Cfunctional=E2=80=
=9D) to include
   minimizing setup latency, or even enhancing congestion control performan=
ce
   on difficult paths (e.g. high loss, high latency, or variable latency)


HELIUM attempts to cover all of these extended goals, at least to some
extent, which results in an unconventional, extremely flexible design.

Some participants asked for sketches of solutions with reduced scope that
enable a more familiar approach.  Here are a few:

   -

   If we require that the proxied contents are end-to-end congestion
   controlled (e.g. only QUIC is allowed), then the substrate could safely
   disable congestion control (and reliability and flow control) for those
   packets.  This would require some modifications to HTTP/QUIC (creating a
   DTLS-like mode) but would make congestion control stability much easier =
to
   achieve.
   -

   If we require that contents are plain UDP only (no IP options like DSCP
   or TTL) and exclude support for server-like behavior, then we can use a
   protocol that maps 1:1 with TURN, for familiar semantics.
   -

   If we require that the server has full =E2=80=9Craw IP sockets=E2=80=9D =
access, then we
   can remove all mention of UDP and simply define a VPN-type IP tunnel.


In my view, a protocol that solves one of these restricted problems would
still be a worthwhile advance.

Finally, I=E2=80=99ll note that the level of performance achievable with HE=
LIUM=E2=80=99s
current design is not entirely clear, due to the worrying presence of
layered congestion control.  A more ambitious approach to performance
enhancement might allow the proxy to peek into the content=E2=80=99s conges=
tion
control information. This could enable optimizations like retransmission
from the middle (in both directions) in the event of packet loss.


My question to DISPATCH participants is: what would it take for a solution
to be useful to you?


--Ben

--0000000000002eb3ad0573e2e7da
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><span id=3D"gmail-docs-internal-guid-6ab16986-7fff-cc09-f7=
31-98c4f29703d6"><p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;ma=
rgin-bottom:0pt"><span style=3D"font-family:Arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);backgrou=
nd-color:transparent;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:no=
rmal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">At the DISPATCH session =
in Montreal, the chairs suggested reaching out to this list with a taxonomy=
 of the problems that HELIUM is trying to solve.=C2=A0 Here=E2=80=99s a qui=
ck attempt at that.  (For more information, see Lucas Pardue=E2=80=99s =E2=
=80=9CHiNT=E2=80=9D draft and slides.)</span></p><br><p dir=3D"ltr" style=
=3D"line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style=3D"font-=
family:Arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;font-variant-num=
eric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-sp=
ace:pre-wrap">The starting point is the observation that HTTP/QUIC can forw=
ard HTTPS (with HTTP CONNECT), but cannot forward HTTP/QUIC (because CONNEC=
T is TCP-only).=C2=A0 The baseline requirement, then, is to enable an HTTP/=
QUIC server to forward a QUIC connection.</span></p><br><p dir=3D"ltr" styl=
e=3D"line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style=3D"font=
-family:Arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;font-variant-nu=
meric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-s=
pace:pre-wrap">Although this is the starting use case, it is not the only p=
roperty that one might desire.=C2=A0 Some additional goals that we=E2=80=99=
ve considered include</span></p><ul style=3D"margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0=
pt"><li dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"list-style-type:disc;font-family:Arial;color:r=
gb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-var=
iant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre"><p dir=3D"l=
tr" style=3D"line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style=
=3D"background-color:transparent;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-e=
ast-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">extending th=
e supported contents to include WebRTC, DNS, or even arbitrary IP</span></p=
></li><li dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"list-style-type:disc;font-family:Arial;color=
:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-v=
ariant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre"><p dir=3D=
"ltr" style=3D"line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span sty=
le=3D"background-color:transparent;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant=
-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">extending =
the supported substrates to include HTTP/2 or even HTTP/1.1</span></p></li>=
<li dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"list-style-type:disc;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(0=
,0,0);background-color:transparent;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant=
-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre"><p dir=3D"ltr" =
style=3D"line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style=3D"=
background-color:transparent;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-=
asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">extending the pe=
rformance goals (beyond merely =E2=80=9Cfunctional=E2=80=9D) to include min=
imizing setup latency, or even enhancing congestion control performance on =
difficult paths (e.g. high loss, high latency, or variable latency)</span><=
/p></li></ul><br><p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;ma=
rgin-bottom:0pt"><span style=3D"font-family:Arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);backgrou=
nd-color:transparent;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:no=
rmal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">HELIUM attempts to cover=
 all of these extended goals, at least to some extent, which results in an =
unconventional, extremely flexible design.</span></p><br><p dir=3D"ltr" sty=
le=3D"line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style=3D"fon=
t-family:Arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;font-variant-n=
umeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-=
space:pre-wrap">Some participants asked for sketches of solutions with redu=
ced scope that enable a more familiar approach.=C2=A0 Here are a few:</span=
></p><ul style=3D"margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><li dir=3D"ltr" style=
=3D"list-style-type:disc;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-colo=
r:transparent;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;ve=
rtical-align:baseline;white-space:pre"><p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"line-height:=
1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style=3D"background-color:tran=
sparent;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical=
-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">If we require that the proxied conten=
ts are end-to-end congestion controlled (e.g. only QUIC is allowed), then t=
he substrate could safely disable congestion control (and reliability and f=
low control) for those packets.=C2=A0 This would require some modifications=
 to HTTP/QUIC (creating a DTLS-like mode) but would make congestion control=
 stability much easier to achieve.</span></p></li><li dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"=
list-style-type:disc;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:tr=
ansparent;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertic=
al-align:baseline;white-space:pre"><p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"line-height:1.38=
;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style=3D"background-color:transpar=
ent;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-ali=
gn:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">If we require that contents are plain UDP=
 only (no IP options like DSCP or TTL) and exclude support for server-like =
behavior, then we can use a protocol that maps 1:1 with TURN, for familiar =
semantics.</span></p></li><li dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"list-style-type:disc;fon=
t-family:Arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;font-variant-n=
umeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-=
space:pre"><p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-b=
ottom:0pt"><span style=3D"background-color:transparent;font-variant-numeric=
:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:=
pre-wrap">If we require that the server has full =E2=80=9Craw IP sockets=E2=
=80=9D access, then we can remove all mention of UDP and simply define a VP=
N-type IP tunnel.</span></p></li></ul><br><p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"line-heig=
ht:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style=3D"font-family:Arial;=
color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;font-variant-numeric:normal;f=
ont-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"=
>In my view, a protocol that solves one of these restricted problems would =
still be a worthwhile advance.</span></p><br><p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"line-h=
eight:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style=3D"font-family:Ari=
al;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;font-variant-numeric:norma=
l;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wr=
ap">Finally, I=E2=80=99ll note that the level of performance achievable wit=
h HELIUM=E2=80=99s current design is not entirely clear, due to the worryin=
g presence of layered congestion control.=C2=A0 A more ambitious approach t=
o performance enhancement might allow the proxy to peek into the content=E2=
=80=99s congestion control information.  This could enable optimizations li=
ke retransmission from the middle (in both directions) in the event of pack=
et loss.</span></p><p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;=
margin-bottom:0pt"><span style=3D"font-family:Arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);backgr=
ound-color:transparent;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:=
normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"><br></span></p><p styl=
e=3D"line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><font color=3D"#000=
000" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"white-space:pre-wrap">My question to DIS=
PATCH participants is: what would it take for a solution to be useful to yo=
u?</span></font></p><p style=3D"line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bott=
om:0pt"><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"white-space:p=
re-wrap"><br></span></font></p><p style=3D"line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;=
margin-bottom:0pt"><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"wh=
ite-space:pre-wrap">--Ben</span></font></p></span><br class=3D"gmail-Apple-=
interchange-newline"></div>

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