From rdroms.ietf@gmail.com Wed Feb 1 07:48:01 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6C7711E80C2 for ; Wed, 1 Feb 2012 07:48:01 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 68A3Kf22j4nw for ; Wed, 1 Feb 2012 07:48:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qw0-f44.google.com (mail-qw0-f44.google.com [209.85.216.44]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9318411E80B2 for ; Wed, 1 Feb 2012 07:48:01 -0800 (PST) Received: by qafi29 with SMTP id i29so3448553qaf.10 for ; Wed, 01 Feb 2012 07:48:00 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=from:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:subject:date:message-id :to:mime-version:x-mailer; bh=StF8ljX1sHPkRnHqdT5JvIXeo0EM5SlWbUNMwstW58U=; b=uuI06CLs3v96D60wAnhNYqFJ7iGdhhkc5BkrsL5ztgZjgAnGjWmZ06YEIc3sunRsXU U72CccHC2F1OHns8dPdK3LT0TWixLCL2WKiM/GIty03gHp0xEBdQAXuxgUym4NcVswY0 h5shkP6D/bZkixwowJyjjoR34RvJgkzVyI1UA= Received: by 10.224.193.66 with SMTP id dt2mr33809462qab.92.1328111280926; Wed, 01 Feb 2012 07:48:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.86.255.108] (198-135-0-233.cisco.com. [198.135.0.233]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id m20sm48281345qaj.14.2012.02.01.07.47.58 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 01 Feb 2012 07:48:00 -0800 (PST) From: Ralph Droms Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 10:47:57 -0500 Message-Id: To: IETF DNS Directorate Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1251.1) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1251.1) Subject: [dns-dir] Question about DNS-SD architecture in multi-link mesh networks X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Feb 2012 15:48:01 -0000 The ZigBee Alliance is developing Smart Energy Profile 2.0 (SEP2.0) = based on a collection of IETF protocols. One of the key pieces is the = use of DNS-SD. The initial design calls for the use of multicast DNS, = extended to use site-scoped multicast. SEP2.0 may be deployed in a mixed network composed of wired Ethernet, = WiFi and 6lowpan/IEEE802.15.4 ("ZigBee IP" or "ZIP") links. While there = is not a definitive conclusion, it seems multicast over ZIP is = problematic. There is no approved spec for multicast over ZIP and the = designs under consideration have problems. Furthermore, multicast DNS = used for other purposes on the wired/wireless links will, without = further specification, spill over and likely overwhelm the very low = bandwidth in the ZIP network. The most recent proposed design for DNS to support DNS-SD in SEP2.0 uses = a mix of "greater-than-link" scoped multicast over the ZIP mesh (note = that the IETF 6lowpan/IEEE802.15.4 architecture uses a multi-link subnet = architecture for which mDNS must be extended beyond link-scoped = multicast), mDNS on wired/wireless links and proxies on the routers. Here's an early rev of an extension to mDNS for site-scoped multicast: = http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-lynn-dnsext-site-mdns-01.txt Note that this design begs the question "How is the SEP2.0 namespace = integrated into the DNS namespace?" The mDNS-based solution defines = ".site" as an analog to ".local" I would like to hear your thoughts about how to provide DNS-SD in an = unmanaged, multi-subnet network. Don't feel constrained to mDNS-ish = solutions; everything is on the table... - Ralph From ondrej.sury@nic.cz Fri Jan 27 00:01:02 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5455B21F8522 for ; Fri, 27 Jan 2012 00:01:02 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_23=0.6, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rmQ9YtXz3rgC for ; Fri, 27 Jan 2012 00:01:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.nic.cz (mail.nic.cz [IPv6:2001:1488:800:400::400]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44E5A21F851E for ; Fri, 27 Jan 2012 00:01:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from [IPv6:2001:1488:ac14:1400:e0b7:7a23:933c:691b] (unknown [IPv6:2001:1488:ac14:1400:e0b7:7a23:933c:691b]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 2D91F2A2E2D; Fri, 27 Jan 2012 09:00:59 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nic.cz; s=default; t=1327651259; bh=fgotDQIAHRCl+al8LcRUwd7R6Z5aYPIbfuaZ1ltL/g0=; h=Subject:Mime-Version:Content-Type:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-Id:References:To; b=HJYdw8TivvmIXjfChwu1/T3FD2BLdTdfnpMuXEQf4PvjKvaafnkJF8aWw58sBW/Nw XwNy6kbIQ3YZZLSJEG+tLcn7d6Ttp1Xs3XmWbXABrGR6m4uizT5x1OW4e5atilf80u 8V1LccPj5emQQRAffNJvaVJ3U4gnCimyEd1M/2JU= Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1251.1) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: =?utf-8?Q?Ond=C5=99ej_Sur=C3=BD?= In-Reply-To: <20120104181709.GP13424@x27.adm.denic.de> Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2012 09:00:58 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <20120104181709.GP13424@x27.adm.denic.de> To: Peter Koch X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1251.1) X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.96.5 at mail X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 02 Feb 2012 08:03:13 -0800 Cc: dns-dir@ietf.org Subject: Re: [dns-dir] some comments on draft-os-ietf-sshfp-ecdsa-sha2-04.txt X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2012 08:01:02 -0000 Hi Peter, On 4. 1. 2012, at 19:17, Peter Koch wrote: > Hi Ondrej, >=20 > i came across another review of = > and would like to add some remarks. I've copied the DNS Directorate > for information. Not sure what the status of the draft is - the > datatracker confuses me by claiming 'wg document', but i do not see > which WG? Generally the draft looks like a good idea! >=20 > To start with some formalities, the header and abstract claim the = draft > updates RFC 4255. I would suggest it does not. It updates two IANA > registries defined and seeded by RFC 4255, but it does not (to my > reading) change any content of RFC 4255. If it were to update 4255, > it should probably adjust the registry policies from "IETF consensus" > as per RFC 2434 to "IETF Review" as per RFC 5226, but that's probably > for another venue to discuss. Fixed. Sound reasonable. > Second, the document aims at Standards Track and I do not see why. > An IETF/IESG reviewed RFC would be sufficient. Not saying it > should be less than ST, but what's the purpose here? Later serving > as normative reference? I am not aware of such thing as IESG reviewed RFC. RFC 2026 is no help here. Maybe you can point me to a reading material? > In section 3.2 the use of an ECDSA fingerprint is defined. I could > not find the description of the Fingerprint in RFC 5656. > Furtheron it reads >=20 > ECDSA public key fingerprints MUST use the SHA-256 algorithm for the > fingerprint as using the SHA-1 algorithm would weaken the security = of > the key. >=20 > First, could the claim 'would weaken the security' be substantiated > (maybe by reference) a bit? Second, what is the consequence, i.e. > who is supposed to act on a violation? Is it the DNS implementation > (hard to achieve with 'transparent' RR types), the DNS operator or > the consuming entity? I would suggest to reverse the logic here and > only demand that a consuming party MUST ignore SHA-1 FPs for ECDSA. Sounds reasonable, but if I were to reverse the login, it would also mean that if there's an implementation which generates ECDSA with SHA-1 it wouldn't work for consuming party and it breaks the robustness principle. I want to say - if you create the FP use SHA-256, if you receive SHA-1 key then you may use it unless you also receive SHA-256. > In 4.1, the SHA-256 fingerprint is introduced. The consuming entity > is advised "Secure Shell > implementations which support SHA-256 fingerprints MUST prefer a = SHA- > 256 fingerprint over SHA-1 if both are available for a server. If > the SHA-256 fingerprint is tested and does not match the supplied > key, then the key MUST be rejected rather than testing the > alternative SHA-1 fingerprint." >=20 > This assumes that both FPs are for the same key? Couldn't it happen = that > the server offers an RSA and an ECDSA key, using SHA-1 for the former > and ECDSA for the latter? No, I don't think so. The server always offers just one key. And in = the unlikely scenario where more servers are behind balanced IP address you would need to keep the keys in sync, because SSH would yell at you every time you get different server key. As for key rollovers - you first need to upgrade hashing algorithm and then add new key. > Nit: Add some text after the headline "5. Examples", e.g. >=20 > The following examples provide reference for both the newly defined > ECDSA algorithm number and the use of the SHA-256 fingerprint > combined with both the new and the existing algorithm numbers. Thanks for the text, added. > The examples refer to "OpenSSH format" without any reference. Good catch. > The references to the DNSSEC RFCs are probably informative only. Fixed. O. -- Ond=C5=99ej Sur=C3=BD vedouc=C3=AD v=C3=BDzkumu/Head of R&D department ------------------------------------------- CZ.NIC, z.s.p.o. -- Laborato=C5=99e CZ.NIC Americka 23, 120 00 Praha 2, Czech Republic mailto:ondrej.sury@nic.cz http://nic.cz/ tel:+420.222745110 fax:+420.222745112 ------------------------------------------- From ondrej.sury@nic.cz Fri Jan 27 05:46:55 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F75A21F8592; Fri, 27 Jan 2012 05:46:55 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_23=0.6, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9Yz8ojTvAPVw; Fri, 27 Jan 2012 05:46:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.nic.cz (mail.nic.cz [IPv6:2001:1488:800:400::400]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB59C21F8591; Fri, 27 Jan 2012 05:46:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from kimac.office.nic.cz (fw.nic.cz [217.31.207.1]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7CFF12A3056; Fri, 27 Jan 2012 14:46:53 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nic.cz; s=default; t=1327672013; bh=MlZVkJNfWV2icNfnEe5Pom86bz3CV3932502QSNP/NU=; h=Subject:Mime-Version:Content-Type:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-Id:References:To; b=Uy3YMUYDAsBZf8+ujtcoNSi9hMPMA0UG4xdW+8GhYwKoSmSW1MV+sibEjYEXAdjzp H2+4ps0MeaG3+NtDQ33ooiGOw64ysFk0B3MbqKQrbM1TWdKrgjy/OYwpxLa5GkOM+Z eoU/NDugHYHU83tNX1RIYTLovXrc0o09J18GdBaM= Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1251.1) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: =?utf-8?Q?Ond=C5=99ej_Sur=C3=BD?= In-Reply-To: <201201271218.q0RCIlXs009870@givry.fdupont.fr> Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2012 14:46:53 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <201201271218.q0RCIlXs009870@givry.fdupont.fr> To: Francis Dupont , lionel.morand@orange.com, Peter Koch , Daniel Black X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1251.1) X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.96.5 at mail X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 02 Feb 2012 08:03:13 -0800 Cc: gen-art@ietf.org, ops-dir@ietf.org, Stephen Farrell , dns-dir@ietf.org, Elwyn Davies Subject: [dns-dir] Updated draft-os-ietf-sshfp-ecdsa-sha2-06.txt X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2012 13:46:55 -0000 Hi, since I have received many comments about this block: >> ECDSA public key fingerprints MUST use the SHA-256 = algorithm >> for the fingerprint as using the SHA-1 algorithm would >> weaken the security of the key, which itself can use only >> SHA-2 family of algorithms RFC 5656 (Section 3.1.1). I have removed it from the draft version -06 and kept only the part in Implementation Considerations: 4.1. Support for SHA-256 fingerprints SSHFP-aware Secure Shell implementations SHOULD support the SHA-256 fingerprints for verification of the public key. Secure Shell implementations which support SHA-256 fingerprints MUST prefer a SHA- 256 fingerprint over SHA-1 if both are available for a server. If the SHA-256 fingerprint is tested and does not match the key SSH public key received from the SSH server key, then the key MUST be rejected rather than testing the alternative SHA-1 fingerprint. and Security Considerations Users of SSHFP are encouraged to deploy SHA-256 as soon as implementations allow for it. SHA-2 family of algorithms is widely believed to be more resilient to attack than SHA-1, and confidence in SHA-1's strength is being eroded by recently announced attacks [IACR 2007/474]. Regardless of whether or not the attacks on SHA-1 will affect SSHFP, it is believed (at the time of this writing) that SHA- 256 is the better choice for use in SSHFP records. I believe that now all concerns are solved, but I haven't got the review from secdir yet. O. -- Ond=C5=99ej Sur=C3=BD vedouc=C3=AD v=C3=BDzkumu/Head of R&D department ------------------------------------------- CZ.NIC, z.s.p.o. -- Laborato=C5=99e CZ.NIC Americka 23, 120 00 Praha 2, Czech Republic mailto:ondrej.sury@nic.cz http://nic.cz/ tel:+420.222745110 fax:+420.222745112 ------------------------------------------- From lionel.morand@orange.com Fri Jan 27 09:33:03 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1B7121F8599; Fri, 27 Jan 2012 09:33:03 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.649 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.649 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, J_CHICKENPOX_23=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tdLeZBGIPuEa; Fri, 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X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Updated draft-os-ietf-sshfp-ecdsa-sha2-06.txt Thread-Index: Aczc+iFaZ0JVKvyPQF6RAn+yVoHccQAHDDvg References: <201201271218.q0RCIlXs009870@givry.fdupont.fr> From: To: , , , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Jan 2012 17:31:30.0199 (UTC) FILETIME=[81696270:01CCDD19] X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 02 Feb 2012 08:03:13 -0800 Cc: gen-art@ietf.org, ops-dir@ietf.org, stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie, dns-dir@ietf.org, elwynd@googlemail.com Subject: Re: [dns-dir] Updated draft-os-ietf-sshfp-ecdsa-sha2-06.txt X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2012 17:33:03 -0000 VGhhbmsgeW91IQ0KDQpMaW9uZWwgDQoNCi0tLS0tTWVzc2FnZSBkJ29yaWdpbmUtLS0tLQ0KRGXC oDogT25kxZllaiBTdXLDvSBbbWFpbHRvOm9uZHJlai5zdXJ5QG5pYy5jel0gDQpFbnZvecOpwqA6 IHZlbmRyZWRpIDI3IGphbnZpZXIgMjAxMiAxNDo0Nw0Kw4DCoDogRnJhbmNpcyBEdXBvbnQ7IE1P 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Delivered-To: dns-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9881B21E801C; Wed, 8 Feb 2012 10:25:15 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -103.386 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.386 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.213, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mAgoU+uq3Zso; Wed, 8 Feb 2012 10:25:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from co300216-co-outbound.net.avaya.com (co300216-co-outbound.net.avaya.com [198.152.13.100]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9784021E801D; Wed, 8 Feb 2012 10:25:14 -0800 (PST) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Aj8HAFq9Mk+HCzI1/2dsb2JhbABDhRGZFIQyizRxgQWBbwEBAQEDAQEBDxENBDoXBgEIDQQEAQEDAgYCBAwLAQICAwElHgEHAQEFBAEEARIIARmHY55xiXaKEYEvhm2DMAEpBgGDZgGBBoJDM2MEmyeFEodS X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.73,384,1325480400"; d="scan'208";a="329062588" Received: from unknown (HELO p-us1-erheast.us1.avaya.com) ([135.11.50.53]) by co300216-co-outbound.net.avaya.com with ESMTP; 08 Feb 2012 13:25:13 -0500 Received: from unknown (HELO 307622ANEX5.global.avaya.com) ([135.64.140.13]) by p-us1-erheast-out.us1.avaya.com with ESMTP; 08 Feb 2012 13:11:03 -0500 x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2012 19:25:11 +0100 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: WG Review: Recharter of BiDirectional or Server-Initiated HTTP (hybi) Thread-Index: Aczlv/o1a4Rs1oWDTsudhClUTksNIAAzvd8Q From: "Romascanu, Dan (Dan)" To: "IETF DNS Directorate" , , , , "YANG Doctors" Subject: [dns-dir] FW: WG Review: Recharter of BiDirectional or Server-Initiated HTTP (hybi) X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Feb 2012 18:25:15 -0000 DQoNCg0KDQotLS0tLU9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLQ0KRnJvbTogaWVzZy1ib3VuY2VzQGll dGYub3JnIFttYWlsdG86aWVzZy1ib3VuY2VzQGlldGYub3JnXSBPbiBCZWhhbGYgT2YgSUVTRyBT ZWNyZXRhcnkNClNlbnQ6IFR1ZXNkYXksIEZlYnJ1YXJ5IDA3LCAyMDEyIDc6NDMgUE0NClRvOiBJ RVRGIEFubm91bmNlbWVudCBsaXN0DQpDYzogU2FsdmF0b3JlLkxvcmV0b0Blcmljc3Nvbi5jb207 IGh5YmlAaWV0Zi5vcmc7IGdfZV9tb250ZW5lZ3JvQHlhaG9vLmNvbQ0KU3ViamVjdDogV0cgUmV2 aWV3OiBSZWNoYXJ0ZXIgb2YgQmlEaXJlY3Rpb25hbCBvciBTZXJ2ZXItSW5pdGlhdGVkIEhUVFAg KGh5YmkpIA0KDQpBIG1vZGlmaWVkIGNoYXJ0ZXIgaGFzIGJlZW4gc3VibWl0dGVkIGZvciB0aGUg QmlEaXJlY3Rpb25hbCBvciBTZXJ2ZXItDQpJbml0aWF0ZWQgSFRUUCAoaHliaSkgd29ya2luZyBn 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ZGxpbmcNCg0KICBKdWwgMjAxMiAtIEFkb3B0IGEgV0cgZm9yIHRoZSBtdWx0aXBsZXhpbmcgZXh0 ZW5zaW9uDQoNCiAgQXVnIDIwMTIgLSBJc3N1ZSBXRyBsYXN0IGNhbGwgb24gdGltZW91dCBoYW5k bGluZw0KDQogIFNlcCAyMDEyIC0gSXNzdWUgV0cgbGFzdCBjYWxsIG9uIHRoZSBtdWx0aXBsZXhp bmcgZXh0ZW5zaW9uDQoNCiAgT2N0IDIwMTIgLSBTZW5kIHRpbWVvdXQgaGFuZGxpbmcgdG8gSUVT RyBmb3IgY29uc2lkZXJhdGlvbiBhcw0KICAgICAgICAgICAgIGEgUHJvcG9zZWQgU3RhbmRhcmQN Cg0KICBOb3YgMjAxMiAtIFNlbmQgbXVsdGlwbGV4aW5nIGV4dGVuc2lvbiB0byBJRVNHIGZvciBj b25zaWRlcmF0aW9uIGFzDQogICAgICAgICAgICAgYSBQcm9wb3NlZCBTdGFuZGFyZA0K From dromasca@avaya.com Wed Feb 8 10:26:52 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 554D021E8020; Wed, 8 Feb 2012 10:26:52 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -103.388 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.388 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.211, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XODp+pj18cxm; Wed, 8 Feb 2012 10:26:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from de307622-de-outbound.net.avaya.com (de307622-de-outbound.net.avaya.com [198.152.71.100]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86EC721E8010; Wed, 8 Feb 2012 10:26:50 -0800 (PST) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgMFAIa9Mk/GmAcF/2dsb2JhbABDhQ2pCHGBB4FyAQEBAQMBAQEPEQ0EOhcGAQgNBAQBAQMCBgIEDAsBAgIDASUfBwEBBQQBBAESCAEZh2OdRIl2kXqBL4odASkGAYNmAYEGGQKCKDNjBJsnjGQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.73,384,1325480400"; d="scan'208";a="290303098" Received: from unknown (HELO co300216-co-erhwest.avaya.com) ([198.152.7.5]) by de307622-de-outbound.net.avaya.com with ESMTP; 08 Feb 2012 13:26:48 -0500 Received: from unknown (HELO 307622ANEX5.global.avaya.com) ([135.64.140.13]) by co300216-co-erhwest-out.avaya.com with ESMTP; 08 Feb 2012 13:20:50 -0500 x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2012 19:26:45 +0100 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: WG Review: Recharter of Basic Level of Interoperability for SIP Services (bliss) Thread-Index: Aczlv4f43x09mVKISN28pDe+wtohIQAz5mgg From: "Romascanu, Dan (Dan)" To: "IETF DNS Directorate" , , "YANG Doctors" , , Subject: [dns-dir] FW: WG Review: Recharter of Basic Level of Interoperability for SIP Services (bliss) X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Feb 2012 18:26:52 -0000 DQoNCg0KDQotLS0tLU9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLQ0KRnJvbTogaWVzZy1ib3VuY2VzQGll 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X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: PRELIMINARY Agenda and Package for the February 16, 2012 IESG Teleconference Thread-Index: AczngMDBFp4ftpXQSTKBK5w78slDSAAVTJ3w From: "Romascanu, Dan (Dan)" To: , , "YANG Doctors" , , "IETF DNS Directorate" Subject: [dns-dir] FW: PRELIMINARY Agenda and Package for the February 16, 2012 IESG Teleconference X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2012 09:27:56 -0000 SGksDQoNClBsZWFzZSBmaW5kIGJlbG93IHRoZSBwcmVsaW1pbmFyeSBhZ2VuZGEgb2YgdGhlIDIv MTYgSUVTRyB0ZWxlY2hhdC4gUGxlYXNlIHNlbmQgeW91ciBxdWVzdGlvbnMsIGNvbW1lbnRzIGFu ZCBjb25jZXJucyBiZWZvcmUgMi8xNSBDT0IuIA0KDQpUaGFua3MgYW5kIFJlZ2FyZHMsDQoNCkRh bg0KDQoNCg0KLS0tLS1PcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlLS0tLS0NCkZyb206IGllc2ctYm91bmNlc0Bp ZXRmLm9yZyBbbWFpbHRvOmllc2ctYm91bmNlc0BpZXRmLm9yZ10gT24gQmVoYWxmIE9mIElFU0cg 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IEludGVyb3BlcmFiaWxpdHkgZm9yIFNJUCBTZXJ2aWNlcyAoYmxpc3MpDQogICAgVG9rZW46IFJv YmVydA0KDQogIG8gQmlEaXJlY3Rpb25hbCBvciBTZXJ2ZXItSW5pdGlhdGVkIEhUVFAgKGh5Ymkp DQogICAgVG9rZW46IFBldGVyDQoNCg== From narten@us.ibm.com Fri Feb 10 15:07:51 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13FF121F85C4 for ; Fri, 10 Feb 2012 15:07:51 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -110.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-110.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dF2kXCPlBgnO for ; Fri, 10 Feb 2012 15:07:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from e35.co.us.ibm.com (e35.co.us.ibm.com [32.97.110.153]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 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Violators will be prosecuted; Fri, 10 Feb 2012 16:07:43 -0700 Received: from d01relay03.pok.ibm.com (d01relay03.pok.ibm.com [9.56.227.235]) by d01dlp03.pok.ibm.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FD9AC9004D for ; Fri, 10 Feb 2012 18:07:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from d01av02.pok.ibm.com (d01av02.pok.ibm.com [9.56.224.216]) by d01relay03.pok.ibm.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/NCO v10.0) with ESMTP id q1AN7gO9281458 for ; Fri, 10 Feb 2012 18:07:42 -0500 Received: from d01av02.pok.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d01av02.pok.ibm.com (8.14.4/8.13.1/NCO v10.0 AVout) with ESMTP id q1AN7gFE005389 for ; Fri, 10 Feb 2012 21:07:42 -0200 Received: from cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com (sig-9-49-199-242.mts.ibm.com [9.49.199.242]) by d01av02.pok.ibm.com (8.14.4/8.13.1/NCO v10.0 AVin) with ESMTP id q1AN7ekg004943 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 10 Feb 2012 21:07:41 -0200 Received: from cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com (8.14.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id q1AN7AoO021519; Fri, 10 Feb 2012 18:07:10 -0500 Message-Id: <201202102307.q1AN7AoO021519@cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com> To: Ralph Droms In-reply-to: References: Comments: In-reply-to Ralph Droms message dated "Wed, 01 Feb 2012 10:47:57 -0500." Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2012 18:07:09 -0500 From: Thomas Narten X-Content-Scanned: Fidelis XPS MAILER x-cbid: 12021023-6148-0000-0000-00000357FFEB Cc: IETF DNS Directorate Subject: Re: [dns-dir] Question about DNS-SD architecture in multi-link mesh networks X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2012 23:07:51 -0000 > The ZigBee Alliance is developing Smart Energy Profile 2.0 (SEP2.0) > based on a collection of IETF protocols. One of the key pieces is > the use of DNS-SD. The initial design calls for the use of > multicast DNS, extended to use site-scoped multicast. Bad idea. multicast deployment is spotty. Link-local multicast is pretty ubiquitous (well, at least for ethernet, which is pretty ubiquitous). But it would be nuts to assume you have any multicast that spans routers, even site scoped. What SOHO environment with more than one router has site-wide multicast enabled? Thomas From paf@frobbit.se Fri Feb 10 22:56:07 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65FFC21F85CF for ; Fri, 10 Feb 2012 22:56:07 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.299 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.299 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jVbv+I3WfzqE for ; Fri, 10 Feb 2012 22:56:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from srv01.frobbit.se (srv01.frobbit.se [IPv6:2a02:80:3ffe::39]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C6E221F85C6 for ; Fri, 10 Feb 2012 22:56:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by srv01.frobbit.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C7E8130E2912; Sat, 11 Feb 2012 07:56:03 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at frobbit.se Received: from srv01.frobbit.se ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (srv01.frobbit.se [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AiysarLCTcGF; Sat, 11 Feb 2012 07:56:03 +0100 (CET) Received: from [IPv6:2a02:80:3ffc::f4b0:3f62:46f1:fe08] (unknown [IPv6:2a02:80:3ffc::f4b0:3f62:46f1:fe08]) (Authenticated sender: paf01) by srv01.frobbit.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47CF8130E2908; Sat, 11 Feb 2012 07:56:03 +0100 (CET) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1257) Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_E2D6AA1E-5282-4B2A-BA46-9D7148347F2B"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Patrik_F=E4ltstr=F6m?= In-Reply-To: <201202102307.q1AN7AoO021519@cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com> Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2012 07:56:02 +0100 Message-Id: References: <201202102307.q1AN7AoO021519@cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com> To: Thomas Narten X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1257) Cc: IETF DNS Directorate Subject: Re: [dns-dir] Question about DNS-SD architecture in multi-link mesh networks X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2012 06:56:07 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_E2D6AA1E-5282-4B2A-BA46-9D7148347F2B Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On 11 feb 2012, at 00:07, Thomas Narten wrote: >> The ZigBee Alliance is developing Smart Energy Profile 2.0 (SEP2.0) >> based on a collection of IETF protocols. One of the key pieces is >> the use of DNS-SD. The initial design calls for the use of >> multicast DNS, extended to use site-scoped multicast. >=20 > Bad idea. multicast deployment is spotty. >=20 > Link-local multicast is pretty ubiquitous (well, at least for > ethernet, which is pretty ubiquitous). >=20 > But it would be nuts to assume you have any multicast that spans > routers, even site scoped. >=20 > What SOHO environment with more than one router has site-wide > multicast enabled? Hm...I would not say "nuts". I see a number of ISPs having multicast = turned on within their network for TV distribution (for example). So I = would not be as much against this idea as Thomas. Across AS boundaries, = agree, only unicast there, but otherwise I do see multicast. = Specifically I see it working within a broadcast domain at the edge. And = that is the environment I think zigbee is working. Patrik --Apple-Mail=_E2D6AA1E-5282-4B2A-BA46-9D7148347F2B Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.17 (Darwin) iD8DBQFPNhECrMabGguI180RAucLAJ4kAyqtpTjtu+PlQzSs3u7vD1dpZwCghdBG cLUW6vtyju8AMFce5qi01DU= =7ZrJ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_E2D6AA1E-5282-4B2A-BA46-9D7148347F2B-- From rdroms.ietf@gmail.com Sat Feb 11 11:12:58 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F05921F8526 for ; Sat, 11 Feb 2012 11:12:58 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -103.399 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.399 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.200, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FEY2WOSEznEM for ; Sat, 11 Feb 2012 11:12:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pz0-f44.google.com (mail-pz0-f44.google.com [209.85.210.44]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99B5721F8542 for ; Sat, 11 Feb 2012 11:12:57 -0800 (PST) Received: by dakl33 with SMTP id l33so3475620dak.31 for ; Sat, 11 Feb 2012 11:12:57 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=subject:mime-version:content-type:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to:x-mailer; bh=s5C1lq9TDaX0L14vs+gX5M0nItdmLHBgjo5tXduPtGw=; b=WI0YkVz9tH+8Y0Ryx4t4LgSxscp3Thz3GwefLOTCSICgw3As5XW8wXd7VGjMwIlcUg KwKQWxbcaMjoSFg/dC35yBpoSY2UyfeM/RfjMn7VkSW4UGR+PoMYvyc8dWYmo3YsAeIz Z0QiyZlp1LlrxwHz+Yp16C+qD9MSc6UNgrM6E= Received: by 10.68.74.69 with SMTP id r5mr29799825pbv.118.1328987577479; Sat, 11 Feb 2012 11:12:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from sjc-vpn6-303.cisco.com (128-107-239-233.cisco.com. [128.107.239.233]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id b4sm21482691pbc.7.2012.02.11.11.12.56 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sat, 11 Feb 2012 11:12:56 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1251.1) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Ralph Droms In-Reply-To: <201202102307.q1AN7AoO021519@cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com> Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2012 14:12:55 -0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <201202102307.q1AN7AoO021519@cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com> To: Thomas Narten X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1251.1) Cc: IETF DNS Directorate Subject: Re: [dns-dir] Question about DNS-SD architecture in multi-link mesh networks X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2012 19:12:58 -0000 This problem space likely applies to homenet WG architecture and = deployment scenarios, too. Here's a short list of potential features: * Disconnected operation ("fate sharing"): name resolution for reachable = devices continues if the local network is disconnected from the global = Internet * Relative name resolution: some naming convention that allows name = resolution while mitigating the need to know an absolute location in the = global DNS namespace * Unmanaged operation * Efficient message utilization: for example, keep unwanted traffic off = of an IEEE802.15.4 network. So, in the home network environment, what's needed is a name resolution = service that can continue to operate even if the connection to the = service provider has failed. It would be nice to be able to resolve a = name like "that-printer-in-my office" without having to know the FQDN = printerXXX.rdroms.big-service-provider.net. DNS-SD should work, so a = request for "thermostat service" lists all the thermostats in the home. Extending mDNS to, say, ".site" has some of the desired features: = unmanaged operation, relative name resolution, disconnected operation. = However, it's not clear it scales well to multiple links because of = various timers, (as Thomas points out) mDNS depends on multi-router = multicast, the mDNS traffic in a typical home network would swamp an = IEEE802.15.4 network, and mDNS doesn't accommodate nodes that sometimes = sleep (I'm aware that there are proxies to mitigate this problem). On the other hand, can an unmanaged DNS server combined with DDNS and = appropriate security be used as the basis for a DNS solution? Any ideas = about some form of relative naming that can off-load the requirement to = identify the right DNS suffix for DNS-SD? - Ralph On Feb 10, 2012, at 6:07 PM 2/10/12, Thomas Narten wrote: >> The ZigBee Alliance is developing Smart Energy Profile 2.0 (SEP2.0) >> based on a collection of IETF protocols. One of the key pieces is >> the use of DNS-SD. The initial design calls for the use of >> multicast DNS, extended to use site-scoped multicast. >=20 > Bad idea. multicast deployment is spotty. >=20 > Link-local multicast is pretty ubiquitous (well, at least for > ethernet, which is pretty ubiquitous). >=20 > But it would be nuts to assume you have any multicast that spans > routers, even site scoped. >=20 > What SOHO environment with more than one router has site-wide > multicast enabled? >=20 > Thomas >=20 From paf@frobbit.se Sat Feb 11 23:34:15 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F277221F85C0 for ; Sat, 11 Feb 2012 23:34:14 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.299 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.299 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id d6PE42xX0D5V for ; Sat, 11 Feb 2012 23:34:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from srv01.frobbit.se (srv01.frobbit.se [IPv6:2a02:80:3ffe::39]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20E3D21F85BD for ; Sat, 11 Feb 2012 23:34:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by srv01.frobbit.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23E61130FFA53; Sun, 12 Feb 2012 08:34:11 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at frobbit.se Received: from srv01.frobbit.se ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (srv01.frobbit.se [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7DBV6aN5it85; Sun, 12 Feb 2012 08:34:10 +0100 (CET) Received: from [IPv6:2a02:80:3ffc::54ce:60ae:2223:70fe] (unknown [IPv6:2a02:80:3ffc::54ce:60ae:2223:70fe]) (Authenticated sender: paf01) by srv01.frobbit.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C68B130FFA49; Sun, 12 Feb 2012 08:34:10 +0100 (CET) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1257) Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_97B21358-51FB-4488-8CA6-8D016AF7F456"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Patrik_F=E4ltstr=F6m?= In-Reply-To: Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2012 08:34:09 +0100 Message-Id: <03458CDE-C746-4F5D-A643-B8E892A74A36@frobbit.se> References: <201202102307.q1AN7AoO021519@cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com> To: Ralph Droms X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1257) Cc: Thomas Narten , IETF DNS Directorate Subject: Re: [dns-dir] Question about DNS-SD architecture in multi-link mesh networks X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2012 07:34:15 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_97B21358-51FB-4488-8CA6-8D016AF7F456 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On 11 feb 2012, at 20:12, Ralph Droms wrote: > On the other hand, can an unmanaged DNS server combined with DDNS and = appropriate security be used as the basis for a DNS solution? Any ideas = about some form of relative naming that can off-load the requirement to = identify the right DNS suffix for DNS-SD? I think that already exists. Where you have "trust" in the local = multicast cloud for the name resolution for the .local (or .site) names. = You there have security on the application layer. Including using dns = proxies that cache mdns responses and queries. Then you have globally unique names as well, and you can use ddns for = that. You can as Apple has done ignore the need to configure the actual = domain path "droms.dynamic-service.provider.com", but you configure with = the name of the service, username and password. That uses authenticated = HTTP/HTML or something to register/update the names you want, but lookup = is normal DNS. Patrik --Apple-Mail=_97B21358-51FB-4488-8CA6-8D016AF7F456 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.17 (Darwin) iD8DBQFPN2txrMabGguI180RAgVAAKCV77XfI3DN7xf0CuTb5XPjaHr+5QCdHRDJ SXQKvp0QQ5dDT6d+p5Rs1sg= =mIbE -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_97B21358-51FB-4488-8CA6-8D016AF7F456-- From narten@us.ibm.com Mon Feb 13 06:19:20 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFA9F21F8574 for ; Mon, 13 Feb 2012 06:19:20 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -109.697 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-109.697 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.602, BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id s3UDAtGEZAlj for ; Mon, 13 Feb 2012 06:19:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from e39.co.us.ibm.com (e39.co.us.ibm.com [32.97.110.160]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1ABCE21F8599 for ; Mon, 13 Feb 2012 06:19:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from /spool/local by e39.co.us.ibm.com with IBM ESMTP SMTP Gateway: Authorized Use Only! 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Violators will be prosecuted; Mon, 13 Feb 2012 07:18:32 -0700 Received: from d03relay02.boulder.ibm.com (d03relay02.boulder.ibm.com [9.17.195.227]) by d03dlp03.boulder.ibm.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63F7A19D8026 for ; Mon, 13 Feb 2012 07:18:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from d03av01.boulder.ibm.com (d03av01.boulder.ibm.com [9.17.195.167]) by d03relay02.boulder.ibm.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/NCO v10.0) with ESMTP id q1DEIHse136138 for ; Mon, 13 Feb 2012 07:18:22 -0700 Received: from d03av01.boulder.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d03av01.boulder.ibm.com (8.14.4/8.13.1/NCO v10.0 AVout) with ESMTP id q1DEIHjO027691 for ; Mon, 13 Feb 2012 07:18:17 -0700 Received: from cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com (sig-9-76-153-110.mts.ibm.com [9.76.153.110]) by d03av01.boulder.ibm.com (8.14.4/8.13.1/NCO v10.0 AVin) with ESMTP id q1DEIGUm027624 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 13 Feb 2012 07:18:17 -0700 Received: from cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com (8.14.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id q1DEHiM4031389; Mon, 13 Feb 2012 09:17:45 -0500 Message-Id: <201202131417.q1DEHiM4031389@cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com> To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Patrik_F=E4ltstr=F6m?= In-reply-to: References: <201202102307.q1AN7AoO021519@cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com> Comments: In-reply-to =?iso-8859-1?Q?Patrik_F=E4ltstr=F6m?= message dated "Sat, 11 Feb 2012 07:56:02 +0100." Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2012 09:17:44 -0500 From: Thomas Narten X-Content-Scanned: Fidelis XPS MAILER x-cbid: 12021314-4242-0000-0000-000000C0F360 Cc: IETF DNS Directorate Subject: Re: [dns-dir] Question about DNS-SD architecture in multi-link mesh networks X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2012 14:19:21 -0000 > Hm...I would not say "nuts". I see a number of ISPs having multicast > turned on within their network for TV distribution (for example). yes. multicast is deployed in some environments. It is used for audio/video in some places, and it is used in financial/trading markets as well. But it is not ubiquitously deployed by any stretch of the imagination. You won't find it available in home networks (with more than one link). You generally don't find it in data centers. While I don't know much about ZigBeeSmartEnergy, it appears from their web site that one of their targetrs is nconsumers and home networks. It would seem nuts to me to base something on multicast unless it is targetted for specific deployments where enablement of multicast can be assumed or enabled. Thomas From rdroms.ietf@gmail.com Wed Feb 15 03:18:28 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5094921F8736 for ; Wed, 15 Feb 2012 03:18:28 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -103.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZkbK52abegsN for ; Wed, 15 Feb 2012 03:18:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qw0-f51.google.com (mail-qw0-f51.google.com [209.85.216.51]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69A9A21F84F6 for ; Wed, 15 Feb 2012 03:18:26 -0800 (PST) Received: by qan41 with SMTP id 41so884872qan.10 for ; Wed, 15 Feb 2012 03:18:26 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=subject:mime-version:content-type:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to:x-mailer; bh=NWnrfJpcWkll0maXGzwpUIRMeq3N86x1GFYNr9I7gCE=; b=r+nsWakjBWwueNrciI1JfNFUEIwieoel5v1uB9HhXmYgf8eELJi8Vuh84iUJyvDsfP YxDnu2Gi1G+dT7YQ5LGeQB0l2p8weQqEBE8V8ZqzZpot/rXlF6uq+9cWfvD/CO4/56wl lF33kWkJRwk0WBng6PjB8JfUOMLrA7PvGMXdY= Received: by 10.229.137.65 with SMTP id v1mr15190996qct.44.1329304704300; Wed, 15 Feb 2012 03:18:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from rtp-rdroms-8916.cisco.com (rtp-isp-nat1.cisco.com. [64.102.254.33]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id fh6sm9915474qab.22.2012.02.15.03.18.21 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 15 Feb 2012 03:18:22 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1251.1) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Ralph Droms In-Reply-To: <201202131417.q1DEHiM4031389@cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com> Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 06:18:20 -0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <0A67852B-4FAD-47D7-B1AF-E1967BBE5CD2@gmail.com> References: <201202102307.q1AN7AoO021519@cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com> <201202131417.q1DEHiM4031389@cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com> To: Thomas Narten X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1251.1) Cc: IETF DNS Directorate Subject: Re: [dns-dir] Question about DNS-SD architecture in multi-link mesh networks X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 11:18:28 -0000 On Feb 13, 2012, at 9:17 AM 2/13/12, Thomas Narten wrote: >> [....] >=20 > While I don't know much about ZigBeeSmartEnergy, it appears from their > web site that one of their targetrs is nconsumers and home networks. >=20 > It would seem nuts to me to base something on multicast unless it is > targetted for specific deployments where enablement of multicast can > be assumed or enabled. Thomas - suppose we don't use multicast. How would these design goals = be met with unicast DNS: * Disconnected operation ("fate sharing"): name resolution for reachable = devices continues if the local network is disconnected from the global = Internet * Relative name resolution: some naming convention that allows name = resolution while mitigating the need to know an absolute location in the = global DNS namespace * Unmanaged operation - Ralph >=20 > Thomas >=20 > _______________________________________________ > dns-dir mailing list > dns-dir@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dns-dir From rdroms.ietf@gmail.com Wed Feb 15 12:21:19 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C587F21E808E for ; Wed, 15 Feb 2012 12:21:19 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -103.149 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.149 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.450, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_23=0.6, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id c+49-pmxrRI9 for ; Wed, 15 Feb 2012 12:21:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qw0-f51.google.com (mail-qw0-f51.google.com [209.85.216.51]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2D1721E8090 for ; Wed, 15 Feb 2012 12:21:14 -0800 (PST) Received: by qan41 with SMTP id 41so1515645qan.10 for ; Wed, 15 Feb 2012 12:21:14 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=subject:mime-version:content-type:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to:x-mailer; bh=BfUry7v8uWnwW2eNhPEjxW1b4EJ/bw7ZuDekbebvLVM=; b=w8dHAyPP95DCdVymkZbtmlLfKQk7B5LbXh8q2p+DWj6s5aHLUK4HUBAogFymCbavZT JKtE+/uB8kQttApib2XDSyQsGY62mcAPdFHUk1WD3l/bUVqmo05edY6UXNX7u2s/EgD6 8Hri4L+obRpgnlFtowfZ9pnqh1eXYxuJjOpoI= Received: by 10.229.137.144 with SMTP id w16mr16294166qct.8.1329337273949; Wed, 15 Feb 2012 12:21:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from rtp-rdroms-8916.cisco.com (rtp-isp-nat1.cisco.com. [64.102.254.33]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id bd19sm12738786qab.17.2012.02.15.12.21.10 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 15 Feb 2012 12:21:11 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1251.1) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: Ralph Droms In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 15:21:08 -0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <20120104181709.GP13424@x27.adm.denic.de> To: =?utf-8?Q?Ond=C5=99ej_Sur=C3=BD?= , Peter Koch X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1251.1) Cc: IETF Directorate DNS Subject: Re: [dns-dir] some comments on draft-os-ietf-sshfp-ecdsa-sha2-04.txt X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 20:21:19 -0000 I have a couple of followups in line Otherwise, is the DNS Directorate OK with rev -07 of this document? - Ralph On Jan 27, 2012, at 3:00 AM 1/27/12, Ond=C5=99ej Sur=C3=BD wrote: > Hi Peter, >=20 > On 4. 1. 2012, at 19:17, Peter Koch wrote: >=20 >> Hi Ondrej, >>=20 >> i came across another review of = >> and would like to add some remarks. I've copied the DNS Directorate >> for information. Not sure what the status of the draft is - the >> datatracker confuses me by claiming 'wg document', but i do not see >> which WG? Generally the draft looks like a good idea! >>=20 >> To start with some formalities, the header and abstract claim the = draft >> updates RFC 4255. I would suggest it does not. It updates two IANA >> registries defined and seeded by RFC 4255, but it does not (to my >> reading) change any content of RFC 4255. If it were to update 4255, >> it should probably adjust the registry policies from "IETF consensus" >> as per RFC 2434 to "IETF Review" as per RFC 5226, but that's probably >> for another venue to discuss. >=20 > Fixed. Sound reasonable. >=20 >> Second, the document aims at Standards Track and I do not see why. >> An IETF/IESG reviewed RFC would be sufficient. Not saying it >> should be less than ST, but what's the purpose here? Later serving >> as normative reference? >=20 > I am not aware of such thing as IESG reviewed RFC. RFC 2026 is no > help here. Maybe you can point me to a reading material? E.g., an Informational RFC would suffice. >> In section 3.2 the use of an ECDSA fingerprint is defined. I could >> not find the description of the Fingerprint in RFC 5656. >> Furtheron it reads >>=20 >> ECDSA public key fingerprints MUST use the SHA-256 algorithm for the >> fingerprint as using the SHA-1 algorithm would weaken the security = of >> the key. >>=20 >> First, could the claim 'would weaken the security' be substantiated >> (maybe by reference) a bit? Second, what is the consequence, i.e. >> who is supposed to act on a violation? Is it the DNS implementation >> (hard to achieve with 'transparent' RR types), the DNS operator or >> the consuming entity? I would suggest to reverse the logic here and >> only demand that a consuming party MUST ignore SHA-1 FPs for ECDSA. >=20 > Sounds reasonable, but if I were to reverse the login, it would also > mean that if there's an implementation which generates ECDSA with = SHA-1 > it wouldn't work for consuming party and it breaks the robustness > principle. >=20 > I want to say - if you create the FP use SHA-256, if you receive SHA-1 > key then you may use it unless you also receive SHA-256. Section 3.2 seems to have changed. What was the ultimate resolution of = this discussion point? >=20 >> In 4.1, the SHA-256 fingerprint is introduced. The consuming entity >> is advised "Secure Shell >> implementations which support SHA-256 fingerprints MUST prefer a = SHA- >> 256 fingerprint over SHA-1 if both are available for a server. If >> the SHA-256 fingerprint is tested and does not match the supplied >> key, then the key MUST be rejected rather than testing the >> alternative SHA-1 fingerprint." >>=20 >> This assumes that both FPs are for the same key? Couldn't it happen = that >> the server offers an RSA and an ECDSA key, using SHA-1 for the former >> and ECDSA for the latter? >=20 > No, I don't think so. The server always offers just one key. And in = the > unlikely scenario where more servers are behind balanced IP address = you > would need to keep the keys in sync, because SSH would yell at you = every > time you get different server key. >=20 > As for key rollovers - you first need to upgrade hashing algorithm > and then add new key. >=20 >> Nit: Add some text after the headline "5. Examples", e.g. >>=20 >> The following examples provide reference for both the newly defined >> ECDSA algorithm number and the use of the SHA-256 fingerprint >> combined with both the new and the existing algorithm numbers. >=20 > Thanks for the text, added. >=20 >> The examples refer to "OpenSSH format" without any reference. >=20 > Good catch. >=20 >> The references to the DNSSEC RFCs are probably informative only. >=20 >=20 > Fixed. >=20 > O. > -- > Ond=C5=99ej Sur=C3=BD > vedouc=C3=AD v=C3=BDzkumu/Head of R&D department > ------------------------------------------- > CZ.NIC, z.s.p.o. -- Laborato=C5=99e CZ.NIC > Americka 23, 120 00 Praha 2, Czech Republic > mailto:ondrej.sury@nic.cz http://nic.cz/ > tel:+420.222745110 fax:+420.222745112 > ------------------------------------------- >=20 > _______________________________________________ > dns-dir mailing list > dns-dir@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dns-dir From ondrej.sury@nic.cz Wed Feb 15 12:37:19 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E30C821E80A8 for ; Wed, 15 Feb 2012 12:37:19 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_23=0.6, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uznMKigt8huS for ; Wed, 15 Feb 2012 12:37:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.nic.cz (mail.nic.cz [IPv6:2001:1488:800:400::400]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC96021E80A4 for ; Wed, 15 Feb 2012 12:37:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.10.0.6] (howl.nic.cz [217.31.204.249]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 364F72A2BF2; Wed, 15 Feb 2012 21:37:13 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nic.cz; s=default; t=1329338233; bh=GtQkxwMRWeS5Ke+RKKrl6L+LlASb5i08zXocsMamwmo=; h=Subject:Mime-Version:Content-Type:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-Id:References:To; b=wHDs3F96zhW7sfQxdTPuZjzIstM5u4UHQLR6niYTA2Z/jdMO8r7BbQNQ6e+t1J0bx cAK9SR6EaCVaEHdL/3hf5QF3P8QgwPz9IkAsmw8B7hoKbLQSsiS1oc1odO/8Y17jWH lfG0zSqY4VhEUH7w4HaaYdCql/u8c/Z9Q48N4p8g= Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1257) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: =?utf-8?Q?Ond=C5=99ej_Sur=C3=BD?= In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 21:37:12 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <6D61C047-C73E-4DFF-B052-9FAA724A82A6@nic.cz> References: <20120104181709.GP13424@x27.adm.denic.de> To: Ralph Droms , Stephen Farrell X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1257) X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.96.5 at mail X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 19 Feb 2012 02:37:36 -0800 Cc: Peter Koch , IETF Directorate DNS Subject: Re: [dns-dir] some comments on draft-os-ietf-sshfp-ecdsa-sha2-04.txt X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 20:37:20 -0000 On 15. 2. 2012, at 21:21, Ralph Droms wrote: > I have a couple of followups in line >=20 > Otherwise, is the DNS Directorate OK with rev -07 of this document? >=20 > - Ralph >=20 > On Jan 27, 2012, at 3:00 AM 1/27/12, Ond=C5=99ej Sur=C3=BD wrote: >=20 >> Hi Peter, >>=20 >> On 4. 1. 2012, at 19:17, Peter Koch wrote: >>=20 >>> Hi Ondrej, >>>=20 >>> i came across another review of = >>> and would like to add some remarks. I've copied the DNS Directorate >>> for information. Not sure what the status of the draft is - the >>> datatracker confuses me by claiming 'wg document', but i do not see >>> which WG? Generally the draft looks like a good idea! >>>=20 >>> To start with some formalities, the header and abstract claim the = draft >>> updates RFC 4255. I would suggest it does not. It updates two IANA >>> registries defined and seeded by RFC 4255, but it does not (to my >>> reading) change any content of RFC 4255. If it were to update = 4255, >>> it should probably adjust the registry policies from "IETF = consensus" >>> as per RFC 2434 to "IETF Review" as per RFC 5226, but that's = probably >>> for another venue to discuss. >>=20 >> Fixed. Sound reasonable. >>=20 >>> Second, the document aims at Standards Track and I do not see why. >>> An IETF/IESG reviewed RFC would be sufficient. Not saying it >>> should be less than ST, but what's the purpose here? Later serving >>> as normative reference? >>=20 >> I am not aware of such thing as IESG reviewed RFC. RFC 2026 is no >> help here. Maybe you can point me to a reading material? >=20 > E.g., an Informational RFC would suffice. I am fine with Informational, but is that in line with RFC 5226? It = misses the information (while explicitly cited in RFC Required) and all cited RFCs under "IETF Review" are Standards track. >>> In section 3.2 the use of an ECDSA fingerprint is defined. I could >>> not find the description of the Fingerprint in RFC 5656. >>> Furtheron it reads >>>=20 >>> ECDSA public key fingerprints MUST use the SHA-256 algorithm for the >>> fingerprint as using the SHA-1 algorithm would weaken the security = of >>> the key. >>>=20 >>> First, could the claim 'would weaken the security' be substantiated >>> (maybe by reference) a bit? Second, what is the consequence, i.e. >>> who is supposed to act on a violation? Is it the DNS implementation >>> (hard to achieve with 'transparent' RR types), the DNS operator or >>> the consuming entity? I would suggest to reverse the logic here and >>> only demand that a consuming party MUST ignore SHA-1 FPs for ECDSA. >>=20 >> Sounds reasonable, but if I were to reverse the login, it would also >> mean that if there's an implementation which generates ECDSA with = SHA-1 >> it wouldn't work for consuming party and it breaks the robustness >> principle. >>=20 >> I want to say - if you create the FP use SHA-256, if you receive = SHA-1 >> key then you may use it unless you also receive SHA-256. >=20 > Section 3.2 seems to have changed. What was the ultimate resolution = of this discussion point? I have decided to drop the pairing requirement after GEN-ART review, see = the related thread: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/gen-art/current/msg06979.html and after some iterations: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/gen-art/current/msg07133.html O. -- Ond=C5=99ej Sur=C3=BD vedouc=C3=AD v=C3=BDzkumu/Head of R&D department ------------------------------------------- CZ.NIC, z.s.p.o. -- Laborato=C5=99e CZ.NIC Americka 23, 120 00 Praha 2, Czech Republic mailto:ondrej.sury@nic.cz http://nic.cz/ tel:+420.222745110 fax:+420.222745112 ------------------------------------------- From dromasca@avaya.com Sun Feb 19 08:51:49 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A507B21F8467; Sun, 19 Feb 2012 08:51:49 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -103.36 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.36 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.239, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qVl4BnZdXCOf; Sun, 19 Feb 2012 08:51:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from co300216-co-outbound.net.avaya.com (co300216-co-outbound.net.avaya.com [198.152.13.100]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 734DE21F844F; Sun, 19 Feb 2012 08:51:48 -0800 (PST) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AhgFABsoQU/GmAcF/2dsb2JhbABChRafFI0RcoEHgXMBAQEBAwEBAQ8RDQQ6FwYBCA0EAQMBAQMCBgIEDAsBAgIDAR8GHwMEAQEFBAEEARIIARIHh2eiDYl2iQ+BL4c7Y4IyAwQTQoNwATADBQcKBoIXM2MEmzaFGIdXgVs X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.73,446,1325480400"; d="scan'208";a="331159554" Received: from unknown (HELO co300216-co-erhwest.avaya.com) ([198.152.7.5]) by co300216-co-outbound.net.avaya.com with ESMTP; 19 Feb 2012 11:51:47 -0500 Received: from unknown (HELO 307622ANEX5.global.avaya.com) ([135.64.140.13]) by co300216-co-erhwest-out.avaya.com with ESMTP; 19 Feb 2012 11:45:12 -0500 x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2012 17:51:44 +0100 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: WG Review: Recharter of Locator/ID Separation Protocol (lisp) Thread-Index: AczrZ0Wd69X1P+Q0S52JLeub7B+xoQDv3InQ From: "Romascanu, Dan (Dan)" To: , , "IETF DNS Directorate" , , "YANG Doctors" Subject: [dns-dir] FW: WG Review: Recharter of Locator/ID Separation Protocol (lisp) X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2012 16:51:49 -0000 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IGRlc2lnbnMgdG8gdGhlIElFU0cNCmZvciBwdWJsaWNhdGlvbiBhcyBhbiBFeHBlcmltZW50YWwg UkZDDQoNCk1hcmNoIDIwMTM6IFN1Ym1pdCBhIGRhdGEgbW9kZWwgKGUuZy4sIGEgTUlCKSBkb2N1 bWVudCB0byB0aGUgSUVTRyBmb3INCnB1YmxpY2F0aW9uIGFzIGFuIEV4cGVyaW1lbnRhbCBSRkMN Cg== From dromasca@avaya.com Thu Feb 23 06:56:08 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5702A21F8836 for ; Thu, 23 Feb 2012 06:56:08 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.863 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.863 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.264, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CbPRR3zHKqGY for ; Thu, 23 Feb 2012 06:56:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from p-us1-iereast-outbound.us1.avaya.com (p-us1-iereast-outbound.us1.avaya.com [135.11.29.13]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB3BE21F8833 for ; Thu, 23 Feb 2012 06:56:07 -0800 (PST) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Av0EAHRSRk+HCzI1/2dsb2JhbABEslCBB4F1AQEDEh4KPxIBFRUGDAwHVwEEGxqqaZQdiWeDHRUXPwQRBAIBAgECAoUUBYNAYwSbN4xvgVs X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.73,470,1325480400"; d="scan'208";a="233653619" Received: from unknown (HELO p-us1-erheast.us1.avaya.com) ([135.11.50.53]) by p-us1-iereast-outbound.us1.avaya.com with ESMTP; 23 Feb 2012 09:56:07 -0500 Received: from unknown (HELO 307622ANEX5.global.avaya.com) ([135.64.140.13]) by p-us1-erheast-out.us1.avaya.com with ESMTP; 23 Feb 2012 09:41:27 -0500 x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 15:56:05 +0100 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Welcome to Benoit Thread-Index: AczyO0SZyDUXmH5bQkCByanku1F2tg== From: "Romascanu, Dan (Dan)" To: "IETF DNS Directorate" Cc: Benoit Claise Subject: [dns-dir] Welcome to Benoit X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 14:56:08 -0000 Hi, As you all know by now Benoit Claise will become co-Area Director for Operations and Management, replacing me at IETF-83.=20 Benoit will also replace me in the DNS-Directorate. I am not sure who is managing the mail list - please add Benoit now, and take my name off after IETF-83.=20 Welcome and Good Luck, Benoit! I am sure that you will get full support and enjoy working with this directorate. Thanks and Regards, Dan From dromasca@avaya.com Fri Feb 24 02:31:14 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dns-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dns-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93F5421F870B; Fri, 24 Feb 2012 02:31:14 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.863 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.863 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.264, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TQtQ-RW+ti0J; Fri, 24 Feb 2012 02:31:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from p-us1-iereast-outbound.us1.avaya.com (p-us1-iereast-outbound.us1.avaya.com [135.11.29.13]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C613121F865E; Fri, 24 Feb 2012 02:30:52 -0800 (PST) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgEFAM9lR0/GmAcF/2dsb2JhbABEhTqsOXaBB4FzAQEBAQMSEQ0EUQYBCA0IBQIGBgwLAQICAwFEBwEGBAEEAQkJCBqHZKMsiXaKE4EviDKDJxEaOQcRBAqFFAUSAQsDAggDAgIBNAwDghczYwSbOoxxgVI X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.73,475,1325480400"; d="scan'208";a="233817624" Received: from unknown (HELO co300216-co-erhwest.avaya.com) ([198.152.7.5]) by p-us1-iereast-outbound.us1.avaya.com with ESMTP; 24 Feb 2012 05:30:51 -0500 Received: from unknown (HELO 307622ANEX5.global.avaya.com) ([135.64.140.13]) by co300216-co-erhwest-out.avaya.com with ESMTP; 24 Feb 2012 05:24:01 -0500 x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2012 11:30:30 +0100 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: PRELIMINARY Agenda and Package for the March 1, 2012 IESG Teleconference Thread-Index: Aczyf5lKm541iVE7SPipYwvcmY18sgAX2REQ From: "Romascanu, Dan (Dan)" To: , , "YANG Doctors" , , "IETF DNS Directorate" Subject: [dns-dir] FW: PRELIMINARY Agenda and Package for the March 1, 2012 IESG Teleconference X-BeenThere: dns-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNS directorate discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2012 10:31:14 -0000 UGxlYXNlIGZpbmQgYmVsb3cgdGhlIHByZWxpbWluYXJ5IGFnZW5kYSBvZiB0aGUgSUVTRyB0ZWxl Y2hhdCBzY2hlZHVsZWQgZm9yIDMvMS4gUGxlYXNlIHNlbmQgbWUgYWxsIHF1ZXN0aW9ucywgY29t bWVudHMgb3IgY29uY2VybnMgYmVmb3JlIDIvMjkgQ09CLiANCg0KVGhhbmtzIGFuZCBSZWdhcmRz LA0KDQpEYW4NCg0KDQoNCi0tLS0tT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZS0tLS0tDQpGcm9tOiBpZXNnLWJv dW5jZXNAaWV0Zi5vcmcgW21haWx0bzppZXNnLWJvdW5jZXNAaWV0Zi5vcmddIE9uIEJlaGFsZiBP ZiBJRVNHIFNlY3JldGFyeQ0KDQoNCjIuIFByb3RvY29sIEFjdGlvbnMNCjIuMSBXRyBTdWJtaXNz aW9ucw0KMi4xLjEgTmV3IEl0ZW1zDQoNCiAgbyBkcmFmdC1pZXRmLXJtdC1mbHV0ZS1yZXZpc2Vk LTEzDQogICAgRkxVVEUgLSBGaWxlIERlbGl2ZXJ5IG92ZXIgVW5pZGlyZWN0aW9uYWwgVHJhbnNw 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