From sumanth@cablelabs.com Tue Feb 3 13:26:18 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: drinks@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: drinks@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3C4E3A6B30 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 13:26:18 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.473 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.473 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.709, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_MODEMCABLE=0.768, HOST_EQ_MODEMCABLE=1.368, SARE_SUB_OBFU_Q1=0.227] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BhAQl2r5PneR for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 13:26:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from ondar.cablelabs.com (ondar.cablelabs.com [192.160.73.61]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A429C3A6836 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 13:26:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from kyzyl.cablelabs.com (kyzyl [10.253.0.7]) by ondar.cablelabs.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id n13LPvc5031485 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 14:25:58 -0700 Received: from srvxchg3.cablelabs.com (10.5.0.25) by kyzyl.cablelabs.com (F-Secure/fsigk_smtp/511/kyzyl.cablelabs.com); Tue, 3 Feb 2009 14:25:58 -0700 (MST) X-Virus-Status: clean(F-Secure/fsigk_smtp/511/kyzyl.cablelabs.com) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 14:25:59 -0700 Message-ID: <9AAEDF491EF7CA48AB587781B8F5D7C601952C05@srvxchg3.cablelabs.com> In-Reply-To: <8BC845943058D844ABFC73D2220D466507E6FD77@nics-mail.sbg.nic.at> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Use cases and reqs: draft-02 Thread-Index: Acl2zqrI8Hr2gV6IRxm3SygbNTf9ZAAIq6FwA9IRcEA= References: <8BC845943058D844ABFC73D2220D466507E6FD77@nics-mail.sbg.nic.at> From: "Sumanth Channabasappa" To: "IETF DRINKS WG" X-Approved: ondar Subject: [drinks] Use cases and reqs: draft-02 X-BeenThere: drinks@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DRINKS WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2009 21:26:18 -0000 Folks, An updated draft (-02) that compiles the current set of use cases and requirements from the design team has been submitted. You can access it at: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-channabasappa-drinks-usecases- requirements-02.txt Various members of the design team directly contributed to this revision, as acknowledged in the I-D. Further, the design team mailing list containing the design team discussions, call notes, intermediate revisions and unresolved or open issues can be found at the following link provided by Alex: http://mlist.labs.nic.at/pipermail/drinks-req-team/ Please note that while this version contains the current snapshot of the design team work, there were a few contributions and suggested modifications that we did not get a chance to discuss and resolve prior to this submission. Design team contributors are requested to re-submit such topics to the WG reflector. - S From alexander.mayrhofer@nic.at Wed Feb 4 01:08:33 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: drinks@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: drinks@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D60C63A67FF for ; Wed, 4 Feb 2009 01:08:33 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.184 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.184 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.246, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_AT=0.424, HOST_EQ_AT=0.745, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YQeznuZZ7Ycf for ; Wed, 4 Feb 2009 01:08:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.sbg.nic.at (mail.sbg.nic.at [192.174.68.200]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C50B3A67E5 for ; Wed, 4 Feb 2009 01:08:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost [127.0.0.1] by mail.sbg.nic.at with XWall v3.43 ; Wed, 4 Feb 2009 10:08:10 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 10:08:09 +0100 Message-ID: <8BC845943058D844ABFC73D2220D466507F11C32@nics-mail.sbg.nic.at> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [Speermint] Document Action: 'SPEERMINT Terminology' to Informational RFC Thread-Index: AcmFXOx5hZYuvRGyTRugDVaMPpDssABSv8hg From: "Alexander Mayrhofer" To: X-XWALL-BCKS: auto Subject: [drinks] WG: [Speermint] Document Action: 'SPEERMINT Terminology' to Informational RFC X-BeenThere: drinks@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DRINKS WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2009 09:08:33 -0000 fyi - SPEERMINT terminology is now approved by the IESG - which means = that if we need additional terminology we have a definitive stable basis = for additional definitions. Alex =20 -----Urspr=FCngliche Nachricht----- Von: speermint-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:speermint-bounces@ietf.org] Im = Auftrag von The IESG Gesendet: Montag, 02. Februar 2009 18:35 An: IETF-Announce Cc: speermint chair; speermint mailing list; Internet Architecture = Board; RFC Editor Betreff: [Speermint] Document Action: 'SPEERMINT Terminology' to = Informational RFC The IESG has approved the following document: - 'SPEERMINT Terminology ' as an Informational RFC This document is the product of the Session PEERing for Multimedia=20 INTerconnect Working Group.=20 The IESG contact persons are Jon Peterson and Cullen Jennings. A URL of this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-speermint-terminology-17.t= xt Technical Summary This document defines the basic terminology that is to be used in describing Session PEERing for Multimedia INTerconnect (SPEERMINT). Working Group Summary There is consensus in the WG to publish this document. Several Working Group Last Calls have been issued, and we have finally achieved consensus and resolved all concerns. All changes suggested by the WG have been made to this draft. A nits review has also been performed by our secretary, and those changes made as well. Document Quality There are no protocol implementations proposed, only terminology. The new terms and now consistently in use across all SPEERMINT documents. Personnel Document Shepherd: Jason Livingood Responsible AD: Jon Peterson IANA Experts Required: No _______________________________________________ Speermint mailing list Speermint@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/speermint From richard@shockey.us Sat Feb 7 13:04:57 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: drinks@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: drinks@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E76A3A6D0E for ; Sat, 7 Feb 2009 13:04:57 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.191 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.191 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.340, BAYES_40=-0.185, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id e1rh5Y0zepkz for ; Sat, 7 Feb 2009 13:04:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from outbound-mail-159.bluehost.com (outbound-mail-159.bluehost.com [67.222.39.39]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 493F13A67AA for ; Sat, 7 Feb 2009 13:04:56 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 31510 invoked by uid 0); 7 Feb 2009 21:02:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box462.bluehost.com) (74.220.219.62) by outboundproxy5.bluehost.com with SMTP; 7 Feb 2009 21:02:54 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=default; d=shockey.us; h=Received:From:To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Mailer:thread-index:Content-Language:X-Identified-User; b=dKBPc7JSgFucykG0JvrOAIOrGscIDrzhbTXZdHVGIx9CheLJ5rMhmFS56r1FG8c04uHua0pKPxs3g5QCSXTuSUoarQ07z70Kxtsm4vRc165s/cNCDkWiq3liriY6AHQr; Received: from pool-173-66-69-149.washdc.fios.verizon.net ([173.66.69.149] helo=rshockeyPC) by box462.bluehost.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1LVuMF-0004yc-FL for drinks@ietf.org; Sat, 07 Feb 2009 14:04:59 -0700 From: "Richard Shockey" To: "'IETF DRINKS WG'" Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 16:04:50 -0500 Message-ID: <007b01c98967$b8402c60$28c08520$@us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 thread-index: AcmGRoe+HItxQEnCTlK/PXDCz1LfHQDISHnQ Content-Language: en-us X-Identified-User: {3286:box462.bluehost.com:shockeyu:shockey.us} {sentby:smtp auth 173.66.69.149 authed with richard+shockey.us} Subject: [drinks] FW: I-D Action:draft-channabasappa-drinks-usecases-requirements-02.txt X-BeenThere: drinks@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DRINKS WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2009 21:04:57 -0000 -----Original Message----- From: i-d-announce-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:i-d-announce-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 4:30 PM To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Subject: I-D Action:draft-channabasappa-drinks-usecases-requirements-02.txt A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. Title : DRINKS Use cases and Protocol Requirements Author(s) : S. Channabasappa Filename : draft-channabasappa-drinks-usecases-requirements-02.txt Pages : 22 Date : 2009-02-03 This document captures the use cases and associated requirements for interfaces to provision session establishment data into SIP Service Provider components that aid with session routing. Specifically, the current version of this document focuses on the provisioning of one such element, termed the registry. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-channabasappa-drinks-usecases-requ irements-02.txt Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. From richard@shockey.us Sun Feb 8 10:48:23 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: drinks@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: drinks@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A0133A6817 for ; Sun, 8 Feb 2009 10:48:23 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.013 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.013 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.348, BAYES_50=0.001, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qN-yXTQjcvZv for ; Sun, 8 Feb 2009 10:48:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from outbound-mail-29.bluehost.com (outbound-mail-29.bluehost.com [69.89.17.211]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 823353A687D for ; Sun, 8 Feb 2009 10:48:22 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 25639 invoked by uid 0); 8 Feb 2009 18:48:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box462.bluehost.com) (74.220.219.62) by outboundproxy2.bluehost.com with SMTP; 8 Feb 2009 18:48:08 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=default; d=shockey.us; h=Received:From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Mailer:Thread-Index:Content-Language:X-Identified-User; b=RDTXnfjy9m+VkF2nvJu6q4RiXqLMwVgbkaIq6p9+NW3v8ElKnAGcNBCYDV8znEnRsbkJukae5kP24iv4qkb7H8KW7uCgcrMBgBKwgy30WOoeGF/x1pMtW/JEU14Gd50A; Received: from pool-173-66-69-149.washdc.fios.verizon.net ([173.66.69.149] helo=rshockeyPC) by box462.bluehost.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1LWEhd-0007DN-Kz; Sun, 08 Feb 2009 11:48:25 -0700 From: "Richard Shockey" To: "'IETF DRINKS WG'" Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 13:48:15 -0500 Message-ID: <007801c98a1d$cdc08240$694186c0$@us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: AcmKHcw6B0bgjzi/SXuMucj9S3ufAA== Content-Language: en-us X-Identified-User: {3286:box462.bluehost.com:shockeyu:shockey.us} {sentby:smtp auth 173.66.69.149 authed with richard+shockey.us} Subject: [drinks] Agenda Items... X-BeenThere: drinks@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DRINKS WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2009 18:48:23 -0000 Obviously our number one topic will be a review of A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-channabasappa-drinks-usecases-requ irements-02.txt and next steps but if there are any other topics for discussion now is the time to get your requests in. Richard Shockey PSTN Mobile: +1 703.593.2683 From richard@shockey.us Sat Feb 14 09:02:10 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: drinks@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: drinks@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B85A23A67EE for ; Sat, 14 Feb 2009 09:02:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.15 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.15 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.001, BAYES_40=-0.185, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XaYOBIK9eNk5 for ; Sat, 14 Feb 2009 09:02:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from outbound-mail-114.bluehost.com (outbound-mail-114.bluehost.com [69.89.24.4]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id A6DD83A67A4 for ; Sat, 14 Feb 2009 09:02:09 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 6497 invoked by uid 0); 14 Feb 2009 17:02:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box462.bluehost.com) (74.220.219.62) by outboundproxy3.bluehost.com with SMTP; 14 Feb 2009 17:02:16 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=default; d=shockey.us; h=Received:From:To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-Mailer:Thread-index:Content-Language:X-Identified-User; b=Lp+aI5EsL4y7B2kSdsvkMaalIMw6cs7dfl+jpg2a8ED9nP4rMraXAhR8v3SaGmrMofkaJ23A5of3A7HNrufwXodeUDI4KIIXRnKV3jfVpScRf9iihF7sOxlod3bfNofn; Received: from pool-173-66-69-164.washdc.fios.verizon.net ([173.66.69.164] helo=rshockeyPC) by box462.bluehost.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1LYNuB-0005lF-R3 for drinks@ietf.org; Sat, 14 Feb 2009 10:02:16 -0700 From: "Richard Shockey" To: "'IETF DRINKS WG'" Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 12:02:03 -0500 Message-ID: <029401c98ec5$f6060160$e2120420$@us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0295_01C98E9C.0D2FF960" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-index: AcmOxfQGcW61Aq22Sr++BXVSJz1nwQ== Content-Language: en-us X-Identified-User: {3286:box462.bluehost.com:shockeyu:shockey.us} {sentby:smtp auth 173.66.69.164 authed with richard+shockey.us} Subject: [drinks] FYI ,, so far it looks like tuesday subject to change X-BeenThere: drinks@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DRINKS WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 17:02:10 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0295_01C98E9C.0D2FF960 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit TUESDAY, March 24, 2009 0800-1800 IETF Registration - Yosemite Foyer 0800-0900 Continental Breakfast - 0900-1130 Morning Session I Breakout 6 INT l2vpn Layer 2 Virtual Private Networks WG Breakout 5 INT autoconf Ad-Hoc Network Autoconfiguration WG Breakout 4 IRTF p2prg Peer-to-Peer Research Group Breakout 2 OPS dime Diameter Maintenance and Extensions WG Breakout 3 RAI drinks Data for Reachability of Inter/tra-NetworK SIP WG Breakout 5 RTG sidr Secure Inter-Domain Routing WG Breakout 1 SEC sasl Simple Authentication and Security Layer WG Breakout 7 TSV behave Behavior Engineering for Hindrance Avoidance WG Richard Shockey PSTN Mobile: +1 703.593.2683 ------=_NextPart_000_0295_01C98E9C.0D2FF960 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

TUESDAY, March 24, 2009
0800-1800 IETF Registration - Yosemite Foyer
0800-0900 Continental Breakfast -

0900-1130 Morning Session I

Breakout 6

INT

l2vpn

Layer 2 Virtual Private Networks WG

Breakout 5

INT

autoconf=

Ad-Hoc Network Autoconfiguration WG

Breakout 4

IRTF

p2prg

Peer-to-Peer Research Group

Breakout 2

OPS

dime

Diameter Maintenance and Extensions WG

Breakout 3

RAI

drinks=

Data for Reachability of Inter/tra-NetworK SIP = WG

Breakout 5

RTG

sidr

Secure Inter-Domain Routing WG

Breakout 1

SEC

sasl

Simple Authentication and Security Layer WG

Breakout 7

TSV

behave=

Behavior Engineering for Hindrance Avoidance = WG

 

 

Richard Shockey

PSTN Mobile: +1 703.593.2683

<mailto:richard(at)shockey.us> =

 

 

 

------=_NextPart_000_0295_01C98E9C.0D2FF960-- From richard@shockey.us Mon Feb 16 13:28:46 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: drinks@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: drinks@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6E253A6D1A for ; Mon, 16 Feb 2009 13:28:46 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.242 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.242 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.093, BAYES_50=0.001, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Tdeq-LGZeRHb for ; Mon, 16 Feb 2009 13:28:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from outbound-mail-12.bluehost.com (outbound-mail-12.bluehost.com [69.89.18.112]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 535D33A6D1F for ; Mon, 16 Feb 2009 13:28:45 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 9890 invoked by uid 0); 16 Feb 2009 21:27:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box462.bluehost.com) (74.220.219.62) by outboundproxy1.bluehost.com with SMTP; 16 Feb 2009 21:27:54 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=default; d=shockey.us; h=Received:From:To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Mailer:Thread-Index:Content-Language:X-Identified-User; b=iqJ+3xY6jA4yu1XDIORkedI9XAwQpE8S2QVWGBTOKTnjuGT/Y1NuaNNo7NT/ZEyQltTsZElz1nrurpVNtm5oZ4Fus71UraLJ3+WbczuCwMHfJuINr9nWR4/0ehgFAnHG; Received: from pool-173-66-69-164.washdc.fios.verizon.net ([173.66.69.164] helo=rshockeyPC) by box462.bluehost.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1LZB1L-0008Qv-76 for drinks@ietf.org; Mon, 16 Feb 2009 14:28:55 -0700 From: "Richard Shockey" To: "'IETF DRINKS WG'" Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 16:28:36 -0500 Message-ID: <016d01c9907d$876a4450$963eccf0$@us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: AcmQfYaPwpzG3eUXTDaXC81dL2LSuw== Content-Language: en-us X-Identified-User: {3286:box462.bluehost.com:shockeyu:shockey.us} {sentby:smtp auth 173.66.69.164 authed with richard+shockey.us} Subject: [drinks] I'm not hearing a lot of comments on the Use Case Requirements document. X-BeenThere: drinks@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DRINKS WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 21:28:46 -0000 The design team spent a great deal of time working on this. I cant imagine everything has been captured here. Richard Shockey PSTN Mobile: +1 703.593.2683 From lendl@nic.at Wed Feb 25 13:01:35 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: drinks@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: drinks@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D62A28C31F for ; Wed, 25 Feb 2009 13:01:35 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.115 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.115 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_AT=0.424, HOST_EQ_AT=0.745, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, SARE_MILLIONSOF=0.315] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XbtC2PaYLzAM for ; Wed, 25 Feb 2009 13:01:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.bofh.priv.at (fardach.bofh.priv.at [88.198.34.164]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B74C28C1BA for ; Wed, 25 Feb 2009 13:01:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from [213.129.239.197] (dhcp2.bofh.priv.at [213.129.239.197]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.bofh.priv.at (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84E545CC1F0 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 2009 22:01:48 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <49A5B1BB.1070500@nic.at> Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 22:01:47 +0100 From: Otmar Lendl User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (Windows/20081209) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: IETF DRINKS WG Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [drinks] Some comments on the use-cases draft X-BeenThere: drinks@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DRINKS WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 21:01:35 -0000 Richard wanted some feedback, so here it comes. This document it a _lot_ better than -01. Much more consistent. Overall impressions: * This is a telco design. Basic bell-head thinking with only some marginal sprinkling of Internet ideas. This is a document which describes how one might carry over the telco provisioning, interconnection and call routing approaches to the VoIP world. All fine and good, but to be provocative: why is this an IETF WG document and not an ITU-T, OASIS or 3GPP paper? The role model, the actors and a most use-cases are almost straight from the PSTN playbook. * This is way too ambitious on one hand. Defining all this in a single protocol and implementing the registry which actually does all these things is a herculean task. Layering, folks. Layering. Divide the problem into discrete, clearly separated sub-problems (see the speermint LUF/LRF split for a good one) and the complexity can be brought under control. * This is way too conservative on the other hand. There is little dynamic routing. There is no integration of enterprise VoIP routing with carrier routing. There no possibility of ad-hoc peering. Okay, some specifics: > SED Record: A SED Record contains much of the session establishment > data or a 'redirect' to another registry where the session > establishment data can be discovered. SED Records types supported > are NAPTRs, CNAME, DNAME, and NS Records. What about TLS parameters, Source IP addresses of SBEs, Codec constraints, SIP profiles, ... This is far too DNS focussed. > SED is typically created by the terminating SSP and consumed by the > originating SSP. Careful here: in the case of multi-hop routing, the SED towards the next hop are relevant, and these may have little to do with whatever the terminating SSP has created. See 4.2.2. of the speermint terminology draft. > For scalability reasons SED is rarely exchanged > directly between the intended parties. Instead, it is exchanged via > intermediate systems - termed Registries within this document. Such > registries receive SED via provisioning transactions from other SSPs, > and then distribute the received data into Local Data Repositories. This is true for anything dealing with TNs. Once these are mapped to something amenable to aggregation, this argument falls completely down. We have a serious mistake in the base assumptions here. If we do proper layering, then the routing information does *not* need these intermediate registries. The registries are only needed for the TN -> Destination-Group mapping. Yes, that's the way it has been done in the PSTN and thus it would be easy to integrate VoIP into the same provisioning processes. That's one of the fundamental design question: do we design an incremental update to the way carriers have been operating, or do we design an addition to the IETF SIP world which enables scalable multihop routing based on TNs? These are two very different goals. ---- > o Registries are the authoritative source for provisioned session > establishment data (SED) and related information. Eeek. SED includes what the next hop is. In a dynamic network, this can change quickly as SBEs or links fail, congestion makes paths unavailable or some business decisions make a different path more attractive. I cannot fathom that * these real-time routing information is exchanged via the registry, * carriers outsource the business decision part of the call routing algorithm to third parties. ---- > o Aggregation of public Identifiers: The initial input "key" to a > SED lookup is a public identifier. Since many public identifiers > will share similar (or identical) destinations, and hence return > similar (or identical) SED, provisioning the same set of SED for > millions of public identifiers is inefficient, especially in cases > where the SED needs to be modified. Therefore, an aggregation > mechanism to "group" public identifiers is proposed. This > aggregation is called a "destination group". This very good. (and I'm tempted to say that this is all the registries should handle. Everything else can be done bi-laterally.) ---- Minor nit: please define the acronyms RN and TN. The latter is trivial (or not, once you leave the E.164 world), but the former might have country- specific meanings. ---- > - A Public Identity is associated with zero or more SED Records uhh, please don't go there. ---- The actual use-cases aren't that exciting for me, as the overall architecture decisions I criticize are not a consequence of the use-cases, but rather seem to come from a "that's the way we do things around here" argument. That's a bit thin. /ol -- // Otmar Lendl , T: +43 1 5056416 - 33, F: - 933 // From lendl@nic.at Thu Feb 26 13:14:24 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: drinks@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: drinks@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F4AF3A680E for ; Thu, 26 Feb 2009 13:14:24 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.272 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.272 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.157, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_AT=0.424, HOST_EQ_AT=0.745, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5nKm8XKFisnY for ; Thu, 26 Feb 2009 13:14:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.bofh.priv.at (fardach.bofh.priv.at [88.198.34.164]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5C623A6892 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 2009 13:14:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from [213.129.239.197] (dhcp2.bofh.priv.at [213.129.239.197]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.bofh.priv.at (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D9E74CCBF for ; Thu, 26 Feb 2009 22:14:38 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <49A7063C.6080503@nic.at> Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 22:14:36 +0100 From: Otmar Lendl User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (Windows/20081209) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: IETF DRINKS WG Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [drinks] Regarding domains in usecases-02 X-BeenThere: drinks@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DRINKS WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 21:14:24 -0000 I've written about this already a few times in various IETF / RIPE lists, but it seems to be relevant to the current draft as well, so here is a repeat: According to the usecases draft, SSPs report the public identities of their customers to the registry so that the registry can store the mapping to destination groups. All fine and dandy for TN based public identities, but what about sip:user@domain? These URIs come in (at least) two flavors: a) the domain is the provider's domain (e.g. "verizon.com") b) the domain is owned by the customer (e.g. "shockey.us") The first one makes it easy for the SSP to authoritatively tell the registry that it provides service for whatever URI it is going to provision. So from the point of drinks, this is easy. [I still very much doubt that solely offering such PIs to customer is dangerous to the SSPs as they might be forced to offer PI portability, which would really mess up a lot of assumptions.] So what about b)? Portability is a given, and ISPs are used to deal with customer-owned domains for email and web. Good. So what's the authorization mechanism? For email and the web it's simple: the entity which controls the domain must set the respective MX and CNAME/A records so that the rest of the world know who provides email/web services for this domain. If the control over the domain changes, so does instantly change the control over email and the website. Now, if a SSP can provision any URI regardless of the domain ownership status / domain content, this opens up a pandora's box of interesting errors. We now duplicate who operates SIP service for a domain in two databases which can and will run out of sync with each other. I consider it thus a lot more in line with the rest of the Internet protocols to store the mapping domain -> destination group in the DNS and not some other registry. /ol -- // Otmar Lendl , T: +43 1 5056416 - 33, F: - 933 // From Ray.Bellis@nominet.org.uk Fri Feb 27 00:22:26 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: drinks@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: drinks@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC3523A6A47; Fri, 27 Feb 2009 00:22:26 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3aAL-EdlIS4B; Fri, 27 Feb 2009 00:22:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx4.nominet.org.uk (mx4.nominet.org.uk [213.248.199.24]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53BE73A6A4B; Fri, 27 Feb 2009 00:22:24 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: s=main.dk.nominet.selector; d=nominet.org.uk; c=nofws; q=dns; h=X-IronPort-AV:Received:In-Reply-To:References:To:Cc: Subject:MIME-Version:X-Mailer:Message-ID:From:Date: X-MIMETrack:Content-Type; b=63LMSydyLfWLuZzGWhxjCMsHwUJvxjX4LcBdsWdcHStQFVw2l1DvrQ5h grCjXwiXfNxyVipCqVL5Hm/7FpTkCSNealWU4xXMA+oEx8OrnLwqPuO31 CjDsmb1GbsIT3kU; DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nominet.org.uk; i=Ray.Bellis@nominet.org.uk; q=dns/txt; s=main.dkim.nominet.selector; t=1235722968; x=1267258968; h=from:sender:reply-to:subject:date:message-id:to:cc: mime-version:content-transfer-encoding:content-id: content-description:resent-date:resent-from:resent-sender: resent-to:resent-cc:resent-message-id:in-reply-to: references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:list-owner:list-archive; z=From:=20Ray.Bellis@nominet.org.uk|Subject:=20Re:=20[drin ks]=20Regarding=20domains=20in=20usecases-02|Date:=20Fri, =2027=20Feb=202009=2008:22:46=20+0000|Message-ID:=20|To:=20Otmar=20Lendl=20|Cc:=20I ETF=20DRINKS=20WG=20,=0D=0A=09drinks-bou nces@ietf.org|MIME-Version:=201.0|In-Reply-To:=20<49A7063 C.6080503@nic.at>|References:=20<49A7063C.6080503@nic.at>; bh=9oTBJuTe0fav1F2WWWRb55DBvC2/Kk1SOkJT7TQVvK8=; b=cGbDAKIMkYzWBhboDgDrG7X3IJ+0c43uGvBgZ0dueqyfGAWxDhd34jr8 IzuJot9sXEFJ+dF6kxb6nL4JAuN8+RBQRy0KMvm7kjcDo0evo+BpDC+7F tT1rQEtleLKwfBk; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.38,275,1233532800"; d="scan'208";a="8709076" Received: from notes1.nominet.org.uk ([213.248.197.128]) by mx4.nominet.org.uk with ESMTP; 27 Feb 2009 08:22:46 +0000 In-Reply-To: <49A7063C.6080503@nic.at> References: <49A7063C.6080503@nic.at> To: Otmar Lendl MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Build V85_M2_08202008 August 20, 2008 Message-ID: From: Ray.Bellis@nominet.org.uk Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 08:22:46 +0000 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on notes1/Nominet(Release 7.0.1FP1 | May 25, 2006) at 27/02/2009 08:22:46 AM, Serialize complete at 27/02/2009 08:22:46 AM Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_alternative 002E07968025756A_=" Cc: IETF DRINKS WG , drinks-bounces@ietf.org Subject: Re: [drinks] Regarding domains in usecases-02 X-BeenThere: drinks@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DRINKS WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 08:22:26 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 002E07968025756A_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > a) the domain is the provider's domain (e.g. "verizon.com") > b) the domain is owned by the customer (e.g. "shockey.us") > > The first one makes it easy for the SSP to authoritatively tell the > registry that it provides service for whatever URI it is going to > provision. So from the point of drinks, this is easy. > > [I still very much doubt that solely offering such PIs to customer is > dangerous to the SSPs as they might be forced to offer PI portability, > which would really mess up a lot of assumptions.] I've heard (but not seen) suggestions that various EU commission people are rather keen on making all PIs portable... > So what about b)? Portability is a given, and ISPs are used to deal with > customer-owned domains for email and web. Good. So what's the authorization > mechanism? For email and the web it's simple: the entity which controls the > domain must set the respective MX and CNAME/A records so that the rest of > the world know who provides email/web services for this domain. If the > control over the domain changes, so does instantly change the control over > email and the website. A further consideration with either of these is that the ultimate destination may equally well depend on the local part of the PI, not just the domain part. Ray --=_alternative 002E07968025756A_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
> a) the domain is the provider's domain (e.g. "verizon.com")
> b) the domain is owned by the customer (e.g. "shockey.us")
>
> The first one makes it easy for the SSP to authoritatively tell the
> registry that it provides service for whatever URI it is going to
> provision. So from the point of drinks, this is easy.
>
> [I still very much doubt that solely offering such PIs to customer is
> dangerous to the SSPs as they might be forced to offer PI portability,
> which would really mess up a lot of assumptions.]
I've heard (but not seen) suggestions that various EU commission people are rather keen on making all PIs portable...

> So what about b)? Portability is a given, and ISPs are used to deal with
> customer-owned domains for email and web. Good. So what's the authorization
> mechanism? For email and the web it's simple: the entity which controls the
> domain must set the respective MX and CNAME/A records so that the rest of
> the world know who provides email/web services for this domain. If the
> control over the domain changes, so does instantly change the control over
> email and the website.
A further consideration with either of these is that the ultimate destination may equally well depend on the local part of the PI, not just the domain part.

Ray
--=_alternative 002E07968025756A_=--