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Tue, 3 Mar 2020 11:00:56 +0000 From: Wayne Cutler To: "enum@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: ENUM Query Thread-Index: AdXxSRFnBGvgUDfqQUGG0eLpOyEqRQ== Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2020 11:00:56 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=wcutler@gsma.com; x-originating-ip: [86.167.201.200] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 75bc8264-c2be-42f8-d556-08d7bf622632 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: DB7PR04MB5099: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:9508; x-forefront-prvs: 03319F6FEF x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10009020)(4636009)(376002)(396003)(366004)(39850400004)(136003)(346002)(199004)(189003)(26005)(71200400001)(6916009)(3480700007)(76116006)(7696005)(81166006)(33656002)(81156014)(2906002)(186003)(478600001)(5660300002)(8936002)(66946007)(64756008)(8676002)(66476007)(66556008)(66446008)(9686003)(4743002)(7116003)(52536014)(316002)(6506007)(86362001)(55016002); 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SFV:NSPM; SKIP:0; X-MS-Exchange-CrossPremises-processed-by-journaling: Journal Agent X-OrganizationHeadersPreserved: DB7PR04MB5099.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 03 Mar 2020 08:58:26 -0800 Subject: [Enum] ENUM Query X-BeenThere: enum@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Enum Discussion List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2020 11:02:54 -0000 --_000_DB7PR04MB54183341C4145762B969A0B1C3E40DB7PR04MB5418eurp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear ENUM List, I have an ENUM Registry query that I'd like to run past you to solicit expe= rt feedback/recommendations on the best way forward. The scenario that is applicable concerns the deployment of MMTEL (Multi-Med= ia Telephony) & Advanced RCS Messaging by MNOs (Mobile Network Operators). = For historic reasons, there are two different ways that MNOs have deployed = MMTEL & RCS Messaging services :- i) Both MMTEL & RCS Messaging services are provided by a= single IMS Core Network and the UE registers to this single IMS core to re= ceive all of its services. All terminating service requests are required to= be routed to the single IMS network. Therefore, the existing ENUM infrastr= ucture is fine for this scenario as the telephone number of a given user re= solves to a SIP URI that identifies the target IMS core network. ii) The MMTEL and RCS services are provided by 2 separate= IMS Core Networks - one for MMTEL and one for RCS Messaging. In this scena= rio, the UE registers to both IMS core networks (so-called "dual registrati= on") and gets its full suite of services via a combination of the 2 IMS cor= es. The same IMPU (IMS Public User Id) is used for both IMS registrations = and the same phone number is used to route terminating service requests for= both MMTEL & RCS Messaging related requests. Therefore, in this case, an E= NUM request for a given telephone number needs to be able to identify 2 dif= ferent target IMS cores. The related service request can then be passed ont= o the correct IMS core based on the its context (i.e. does the request rela= te to a MMTEL or RCS Messaging service). This is the scenario that doesn't = seem to be covered in the existing ENUM Registry. So, the problem we have is how to resolve a single telephone number to 2 di= fferent SIP URIs. Looking at the existing ENUM registry, there seems to be = 3 options :- * Enhance the current ProtocolBasedClass of SIP as defined in RFC 376= 4 to add a sub-type - e.g. "SIP/MMTEL" & "SIP/RCS" - with the absence of a = sub-type meaning "all services". * Re-use (or perhaps re-interpret?) an existing result (e.g. Applicat= ionBasedClass of IM or unifmsg) to mean RCS Messaging - but this feels like= a kludge, * Define a new ENUM registry entry to identify RCS Messaging. I would be grateful of any advice / recommendation that you have and am hap= py to answer any further questions for clarification. Best Regards, Wayne Cutler . --_000_DB7PR04MB54183341C4145762B969A0B1C3E40DB7PR04MB5418eurp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dear ENUM List,

I have an ENUM Registry query that I’d like= to run past you to solicit expert feedback/recommendations on the best way= forward.

 

The scenario that is applicable concerns the depl= oyment of MMTEL (Multi-Media Telephony) & Advanced RCS Messaging by MNO= s (Mobile Network Operators). For historic reasons, there are two different= ways that MNOs have deployed MMTEL & RCS Messaging services :-

i)      &nbs= p;             Both MMTEL & RCS Messaging services are provide= d by a single IMS Core Network and the UE registers to this single IMS core= to receive all of its services. All terminating service requests are requi= red to be routed to the single IMS network. Therefore, the existing ENUM infrastructure is fine for this scenario as t= he telephone number of a given user resolves to a SIP URI that identifies t= he target IMS core network.

ii)      &nb= sp;            The MMTEL and RCS services are provided by 2 separa= te IMS Core Networks - one for MMTEL and one for RCS Messaging. In this sce= nario, the UE registers to both IMS core networks (so-called "dual reg= istration") and gets its full suite of services via a combination of the 2 IMS cores.  The same IMPU (IMS Pu= blic User Id) is used for both IMS registrations and the same phone number = is used to route terminating service requests for both MMTEL & RCS Mess= aging related requests. Therefore, in this case, an ENUM request for a given telephone number needs to be able to ide= ntify 2 different target IMS cores. The related service request can then be= passed onto the correct IMS core based on the its context (i.e. does the r= equest relate to a MMTEL or RCS Messaging service). This is the scenario that doesn't seem to be covered i= n the existing ENUM Registry. 

 

So, the problem we have is how to resolve a singl= e telephone number to 2 different SIP URIs. Looking at the existing ENUM re= gistry, there seems to be 3 options :-

·       Enhance the current ProtocolBasedClass of SI= P as defined in RFC 3764 to add a sub-type - e.g. "SIP/MMTEL" &am= p; "SIP/RCS" - with the absence of a sub-type meaning "all s= ervices".

·       Re-use (or perhaps re-interpret?) an existin= g result (e.g. ApplicationBasedClass of IM or unifmsg) to mean RCS Messagin= g - but this feels like a kludge,

·       Define a new ENUM registry entry to identify= RCS Messaging.

 

I would be grateful of any advice / recommendatio= n that you have and am happy to answer any further questions for clarificat= ion.

 

Best Regards,

Wayne Cutler

 

 

.

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Calling Service? If both, then how is a message/call to the TN routed? I think we would want to have some service differentiation as the = discriminator if its one network that supplies each service. Brian > On Mar 3, 2020, at 6:00 AM, Wayne Cutler wrote: >=20 > Dear ENUM List, > I have an ENUM Registry query that I=E2=80=99d like to run past you to = solicit expert feedback/recommendations on the best way forward. > =20 > The scenario that is applicable concerns the deployment of MMTEL = (Multi-Media Telephony) & Advanced RCS Messaging by MNOs (Mobile Network = Operators). For historic reasons, there are two different ways that MNOs = have deployed MMTEL & RCS Messaging services :- > i) Both MMTEL & RCS Messaging services are provided = by a single IMS Core Network and the UE registers to this single IMS = core to receive all of its services. All terminating service requests = are required to be routed to the single IMS network. Therefore, the = existing ENUM infrastructure is fine for this scenario as the telephone = number of a given user resolves to a SIP URI that identifies the target = IMS core network. > ii) The MMTEL and RCS services are provided by 2 = separate IMS Core Networks - one for MMTEL and one for RCS Messaging. In = this scenario, the UE registers to both IMS core networks (so-called = "dual registration") and gets its full suite of services via a = combination of the 2 IMS cores. The same IMPU (IMS Public User Id) is = used for both IMS registrations and the same phone number is used to = route terminating service requests for both MMTEL & RCS Messaging = related requests. Therefore, in this case, an ENUM request for a given = telephone number needs to be able to identify 2 different target IMS = cores. The related service request can then be passed onto the correct = IMS core based on the its context (i.e. does the request relate to a = MMTEL or RCS Messaging service). This is the scenario that doesn't seem = to be covered in the existing ENUM Registry.=20 > =20 > So, the problem we have is how to resolve a single telephone number to = 2 different SIP URIs. Looking at the existing ENUM registry, there seems = to be 3 options :- > =C2=B7 Enhance the current ProtocolBasedClass of SIP as defined = in RFC 3764 to add a sub-type - e.g. "SIP/MMTEL" & "SIP/RCS" - with the = absence of a sub-type meaning "all services". > =C2=B7 Re-use (or perhaps re-interpret?) an existing result = (e.g. ApplicationBasedClass of IM or unifmsg) to mean RCS Messaging - = but this feels like a kludge, > =C2=B7 Define a new ENUM registry entry to identify RCS = Messaging. > =20 > I would be grateful of any advice / recommendation that you have and = am happy to answer any further questions for clarification. > =20 > Best Regards, > Wayne Cutler=20 > =20 > =20 > . >=20 > _______________________________________________ > enum mailing list > enum@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/enum = --Apple-Mail=_D0B5DB80-F5FF-4572-BBF0-DB7C753F87FF Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 One = question: are the services that are provided on these two networks = distinct?  
Do one or both of them supply messaging = service?  Calling Service?

If both, then how is a message/call to = the TN routed?

I= think we would want to have some service differentiation as the = discriminator if its one network that supplies each service.

Brian

On Mar 3, 2020, at 6:00 AM, Wayne Cutler <wcutler@gsma.com> = wrote:

Dear ENUM = List,
I have an = ENUM Registry query that I=E2=80=99d like to run past you to solicit = expert feedback/recommendations on the best way forward.
 
The = scenario that is applicable concerns the deployment of MMTEL = (Multi-Media Telephony) & Advanced RCS Messaging by MNOs (Mobile = Network Operators). For historic reasons, there are two different ways = that MNOs have deployed MMTEL & RCS Messaging services :-
i)          &nb= sp;         Both MMTEL = & RCS Messaging services are provided by a single IMS Core Network = and the UE registers to this single IMS core to receive all of its = services. All terminating service requests are required to be routed to = the single IMS network. Therefore, the existing ENUM infrastructure is = fine for this scenario as the telephone number of a given user resolves = to a SIP URI that identifies the target IMS core network.
ii)          &nb= sp;        The MMTEL and = RCS services are provided by 2 separate IMS Core Networks - one for = MMTEL and one for RCS Messaging. In this scenario, the UE registers to = both IMS core networks (so-called "dual registration") and gets its full = suite of services via a combination of the 2 IMS cores.  The same = IMPU (IMS Public User Id) is used for both IMS registrations and the = same phone number is used to route terminating service requests for both = MMTEL & RCS Messaging related requests. Therefore, in this case, an = ENUM request for a given telephone number needs to be able to identify 2 = different target IMS cores. The related service request can then be = passed onto the correct IMS core based on the its context (i.e. does the = request relate to a MMTEL or RCS Messaging service). This is the = scenario that doesn't seem to be covered in the existing ENUM = Registry. 
 
So, the problem we have is how to resolve a single telephone = number to 2 different SIP URIs. Looking at the existing ENUM registry, = there seems to be 3 options :-
=C2=B7       Enhance = the current ProtocolBasedClass of SIP as defined in RFC 3764 to add a = sub-type - e.g. "SIP/MMTEL" & "SIP/RCS" - with the absence of a = sub-type meaning "all services".
=C2=B7       Re-use = (or perhaps re-interpret?) an existing result (e.g. = ApplicationBasedClass of IM or unifmsg) to mean RCS Messaging - but this = feels like a kludge,
=C2=B7       Define = a new ENUM registry entry to identify RCS Messaging.
 
I would = be grateful of any advice / recommendation that you have and am happy to = answer any further questions for clarification.
 
Best = Regards,
Wayne Cutler 
 
 

.

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ESMTP id 684193A0C0B for ; Wed, 4 Mar 2020 02:44:22 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id B8cgc5kkiYlm for ; Wed, 4 Mar 2020 02:44:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from softronics.hoeneisen.ch (softronics.hoeneisen.ch [62.2.86.178]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A88B33A0B9A for ; Wed, 4 Mar 2020 02:44:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by softronics.hoeneisen.ch with esmtp (Exim 4.86_2) (envelope-from ) id 1j9RVf-0008R0-UN; Wed, 04 Mar 2020 11:44:16 +0100 Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2020 11:44:15 +0100 (CET) From: Bernie Hoeneisen X-X-Sender: bhoeneis@softronics.hoeneisen.ch To: Wayne Cutler cc: Brian Rosen , "enum@ietf.org" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: User-Agent: Alpine 2.20 (DEB 67 2015-01-07) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; BOUNDARY="37663318-2060065419-1583318655=:19506" X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 127.0.0.1 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: bernie@ietf.hoeneisen.ch X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on softronics.hoeneisen.ch); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Enum] ENUM Query X-BeenThere: enum@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Enum Discussion List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2020 10:44:22 -0000 This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. --37663318-2060065419-1583318655=:19506 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Hi Wayne To better assess the scope, I also have some questions: 1) What URI Schemes are currently specified to be used in the NAPTR RRs of the ENUM response (for each of the services RCS and MMTEL)? 2) How likely do you think is it that further URI Schemes will be added in future (for each of the services RCS and MMTEL)? 3) How do you think that further services (in addition to RCS and MMTEL) will be added in future? 4) What is your prediction on SMS to be moved to RCS in future? All the Best, Bernie Hoeneisen, IESG Appointed Designated Expert for ENUM -- http://ucom.ch/ Modern Telephony Solutions and Tech Consulting for Internet Technology On Wed, 4 Mar 2020, Wayne Cutler wrote: > > Hi Brian, > > Thanks for your questions. Please see below in line.. > >   > > Regards, > > Wayne > >   > > From: Brian Rosen [mailto:br@brianrosen.net] > Sent: 03 March 2020 17:51 > To: Wayne Cutler > Cc: enum@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Enum] ENUM Query > >   > > “This email has been received from an external source – please review before actioning, clicking on links, or opening attachments” > >   > > One question: are the services that are provided on these two networks distinct?   > > WC - Yes.  The service-sets offered on the two networks do not intersect. > >   > > Do one or both of them supply messaging service?  Calling Service?  > > WC - Yes.  RCS offers a number of messaging services.  MMTEL offers voice and video calling.  For historic reasons,  SMS (which is > technically a messaging service) is part of the service-set associated with MMTEL. So, in the dual-IMS core scenario, one IMS core > provides voice/video/SMS and the second IMS Core provides RCS Messaging. > >   > > If both, then how is a message/call to the TN routed?   > > WC - GSMA defines two disjoint sets of services, which we refer to as RCS and MMTEL.  The desire is that the ENUM response provide 2 > URIs, one for each service-set, each of which resolve to an entry point to the network providing that service-set.  These URIs can be > the same or different (i.e. covering the single/dual IMS core(s) use cases). > >   > > I think we would want to have some service differentiation as the discriminator if its one network that supplies each service. > > WC - Agreed.  GSMA is responsible for the mapping of service requests to a service-set.  We intend that the ENUM response provide a URI > for each service-set.  What seems to be lacking is an ENUM service for the RCS Messaging service-set. > >   > > Brian > > > > On Mar 3, 2020, at 6:00 AM, Wayne Cutler wrote: > >   > > Dear ENUM List, > > I have an ENUM Registry query that I’d like to run past you to solicit expert feedback/recommendations on the best way forward. > >   > > The scenario that is applicable concerns the deployment of MMTEL (Multi-Media Telephony) & Advanced RCS Messaging by MNOs (Mobile > Network Operators). For historic reasons, there are two different ways that MNOs have deployed MMTEL & RCS Messaging services :- > > i)                    Both MMTEL & RCS Messaging services are provided by a single IMS Core Network and the UE registers to this > single IMS core to receive all of its services. All terminating service requests are required to be routed to the single IMS > network. Therefore, the existing ENUM infrastructure is fine for this scenario as the telephone number of a given user resolves to > a SIP URI that identifies the target IMS core network. > > ii)                   The MMTEL and RCS services are provided by 2 separate IMS Core Networks - one for MMTEL and one for RCS > Messaging. In this scenario, the UE registers to both IMS core networks (so-called "dual registration") and gets its full suite of > services via a combination of the 2 IMS cores.  The same IMPU (IMS Public User Id) is used for both IMS registrations and the same > phone number is used to route terminating service requests for both MMTEL & RCS Messaging related requests. Therefore, in this > case, an ENUM request for a given telephone number needs to be able to identify 2 different target IMS cores. The related service > request can then be passed onto the correct IMS core based on the its context (i.e. does the request relate to a MMTEL or RCS > Messaging service). This is the scenario that doesn't seem to be covered in the existing ENUM Registry.  > >   > > So, the problem we have is how to resolve a single telephone number to 2 different SIP URIs. Looking at the existing ENUM > registry, there seems to be 3 options :- > > ·       Enhance the current ProtocolBasedClass of SIP as defined in RFC 3764 to add a sub-type - e.g. "SIP/MMTEL" & "SIP/RCS" - > with the absence of a sub-type meaning "all services". > > ·       Re-use (or perhaps re-interpret?) an existing result (e.g. ApplicationBasedClass of IM or unifmsg) to mean RCS Messaging - > but this feels like a kludge, > > ·       Define a new ENUM registry entry to identify RCS Messaging. > >   > > I would be grateful of any advice / recommendation that you have and am happy to answer any further questions for clarification. > >   > > Best Regards, > > Wayne Cutler  > >   > >   > > . > > _______________________________________________ > enum mailing list > enum@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/enum > >   > > . > > > --37663318-2060065419-1583318655=:19506-- From nobody Wed Mar 4 04:45:24 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: enum@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 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PTANCj4NCj4NCj4NCj4gLg0KPg0KPg0KPg0KLg0K From nobody Sat Mar 7 16:17:13 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: enum@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: enum@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 229483A1035 for ; Sat, 7 Mar 2020 02:55:18 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.003 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.003 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aiwlRIKKvWoI for ; Sat, 7 Mar 2020 02:55:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from softronics.hoeneisen.ch (softronics.hoeneisen.ch [62.2.86.178]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 18B4B3A1033 for ; Sat, 7 Mar 2020 02:55:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by softronics.hoeneisen.ch with esmtp (Exim 4.86_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jAX6j-0001h2-Rq; Sat, 07 Mar 2020 11:55:02 +0100 Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2020 11:55:01 +0100 (CET) From: Bernie Hoeneisen X-X-Sender: bhoeneis@softronics.hoeneisen.ch To: Wayne Cutler cc: Brian Rosen , "enum@ietf.org" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: User-Agent: Alpine 2.20 (DEB 67 2015-01-07) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; BOUNDARY="37663318-128273188-1583575467=:19506" Content-ID: X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 127.0.0.1 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: bernie@ietf.hoeneisen.ch X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on softronics.hoeneisen.ch); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Enum] ENUM Query X-BeenThere: enum@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Enum Discussion List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 07 Mar 2020 10:55:18 -0000 X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 07 Mar 2020 10:55:18 -0000 This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. --37663318-128273188-1583575467=:19506 Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=UTF-8; FORMAT=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Content-ID: Hi Wayne Thanks for your response. I think I am getting closer to understand the challenges reagarding ENUM in IMS. (It's been a while since my last 3GPP/IMS meeting, which dates back to year 2002:ish.) In the following a preliminery assessment of your options (incl. further questions): > · Enhance the current ProtocolBasedClass of SIP as defined in RFC 3764 > to add a sub-type - e.g. "SIP/MMTEL" & "SIP/RCS" - with the absence of > a sub-type meaning "all services". This is a no-go, as RFC 6117 does not forsee to use subtype strings other than different URI Schemes for Protocol-Based Enumservices. cf. https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6117#section-4.2.2.2 > · Re-use (or perhaps re-interpret?) an existing result (e.g. > ApplicationBasedClass of IM or unifmsg) to mean RCS Messaging - but this > feels like a kludge, Questions: - What are the differences between im (Enumservice) and RCS as used in IMS? - What are the differences between unifmsg (Enumservice) and RCS as used in IMS? > · Define a new ENUM registry entry to identify RCS Messaging. Given the information I currently have/understand, this appears to be the cleanest approach, i.e. to define a new Application-Based Enumservice: - "rcs:sip" with URI Schemes "sip" and "sips" or both - "rcs:sip" with URI Scheme "sip" - "rcs:sips" with URI Scheme "sips" (depending on the implementation, see also: https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6117#section-4.2.3.2 ) If we go down this road, you may also want to consider the same for MMTEL, to replace your legacy approach that uses the Protocol-Based Enumservice "sip", e.g.: - "mmtel:sip" with URI Schemes "sip" and "sips" Note that anything I write here is pre-liminery and MUST NOT be interpreted in any way as "decision by the Dedicated Expert for ENUM" (or alike), but rather help you to find the right direction for a possible upcoming formal IANA registration process. cheers, Bernie -- http://ucom.ch/ Modern Telephony Solutions and Tech Consulting for Internet Technology --37663318-128273188-1583575467=:19506-- From nobody Mon Mar 9 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(20.178.104.203) by DB7PR04MB5148.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com (20.176.233.13) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.2793.17; Mon, 9 Mar 2020 14:04:44 +0000 Received: from DB7PR04MB5418.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::79e8:a6ac:7df9:c295]) by DB7PR04MB5418.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::79e8:a6ac:7df9:c295%4]) with mapi id 15.20.2793.013; Mon, 9 Mar 2020 14:04:44 +0000 From: Wayne Cutler To: Bernie Hoeneisen CC: "enum@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Enum] ENUM Query Thread-Index: AdXxSRFnBGvgUDfqQUGG0eLpOyEqRQAO0jiAAB7UIfAABIubgAACUg1QAJTuBYAAalxosA== Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2020 14:04:44 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=wcutler@gsma.com; x-originating-ip: [62.189.0.100] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 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(Postfix) with ESMTP id 0333E3A1148 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 2020 07:49:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6T9kRVLAELGz for ; Mon, 9 Mar 2020 07:49:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from softronics.hoeneisen.ch (softronics.hoeneisen.ch [62.2.86.178]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 03C493A1158 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 2020 07:49:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by softronics.hoeneisen.ch with esmtp (Exim 4.86_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jBJj2-0006eL-JU; Mon, 09 Mar 2020 15:49:48 +0100 Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2020 15:49:48 +0100 (CET) From: Bernie Hoeneisen X-X-Sender: bhoeneis@softronics.hoeneisen.ch To: Wayne Cutler cc: "enum@ietf.org" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: User-Agent: Alpine 2.20 (DEB 67 2015-01-07) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 127.0.0.1 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: bernie@ietf.hoeneisen.ch X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on softronics.hoeneisen.ch); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Enum] ENUM Query X-BeenThere: enum@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Enum Discussion List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Mar 2020 14:49:58 -0000 Hi Wayne My comments inline. On Mon, 9 Mar 2020, Wayne Cutler wrote: > So, we are after a mechanism to get a SIP URI for the RCS Messaging > Services, and these services comprise things like 1:1 Chat, File > Transfer, Geolocation Push etc. > > Regarding the differences between RCS Messaging and im/unifmsg, I would > say that :- > 1) im allows users to send and receive typically short, often textual > messages in near real-time - which sounds a lot like RCS Chat - and > returns an IM URI. So, I think that RCS is more general than im and also > the need to translate from the im URI to a SIP URI is an additional > minor nuisance. > 2) unifmsg is about having a unified (voice/video) mailbox capability in > the event of a user being unreachable. The RCS services aren't really > about the user being unreachable and so this is not really a good fit > IMO. Thanks for clarification. > So, I think the proposal to have a new Application-Based Enumservice > seems reasonable to me. What would be the next steps? Writing an > Internet Draft presumably? RFC 6117 defines the process in details cf. https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6117#section-6 > Regarding the suggestion to also take a similar approach for MMTEL, I > think there are backwards compatibility issues as there are > implementations already out there that use the Protocol-Based > Enumservice "sip" for MMTEL. Therefore, this is something we wouldn't > want to do. Not sure this creates a new backward compatibility issue. AFAICT, using two new Enumservices, new systems would be more efficient and less prone to ambiguities. And in the long run you'd get a clean system. - for old systems you probably need to maintain "sip" (only) (provision and lookup). You may add a recommendation to at least provision also the new Enumservices "mmtel:sip" and "rcs:sip" (pointing to the same as "sip"), which is easy to implement. - for new systems you could specify: - Lookup: use "rcs:sip" or "mmtel:sip" (with priority); use "sip", only if no hit with rcs or mmtel (fallback) - Provision: "rcs:sip" and "mmtel:sip" would point to the respecive services, while "sip" could be provisioned to help old systems to find the correct service, e.g. a redirection service (or alike) or a system that can deal with requests for the "wrong" (mmtel vs. rcs) service. You could deprecate "sip" Enumservice and after a long enough transition period, you may get rid of the "sip" Enumservice altogether. Does this make sense for your environment? cheers Bernie From nobody Mon Mar 9 08:50:23 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: enum@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: enum@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5C903A1289 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 2020 08:50:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.888 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.888 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=brianrosen-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 66-Cxz5wSjOP for ; Mon, 9 Mar 2020 08:50:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yw1-xc42.google.com (mail-yw1-xc42.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::c42]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A2CB13A12A6 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 2020 08:50:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-yw1-xc42.google.com with SMTP id i1so6327079ywf.4 for ; Mon, 09 Mar 2020 08:50:19 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=brianrosen-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=UhI2B4pjVXnfIMryT11je5/F+8py4dbFAi6AsoNU/x8=; b=2UAKhWcfeV96GzbNvld4+LGESsIekm0sZ6KNsbxNQqzTALON3a+sYntnqtYBgEAJ/v 3B0b6wcwEgQQZw6vYu2fsyD1FiDxSZzxfX36VK0LwnIma/Py38qMh1YTtw1WITXQukoH JbAXJEjbQ+KQHxfYwj0Mg2cB5JU5yRd3QXP9tO3kN7x6EQG9tvuFeqfTNE/vsl5ACzvL KUWShHN8je5rh51DVUbVmYBTDM8irGL79nsudD5L0/FP9HYf/Wa9K9m6JGE0HhxkifQP IQUOHT7T/jHUQI3Wg7/VLCK5ExLK06lrH/oN+gwVGFlUkLpM94h2MAbnAwjNUnDQbt4P XZqw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=UhI2B4pjVXnfIMryT11je5/F+8py4dbFAi6AsoNU/x8=; b=egqbbR0r7yRNUqWzrEzIaMcMD4qRjh8D8BSjKTTMp/1KDOgTBnlVIJ1LDDAygvDAXF tA5ZjKulEXtMHNQor2fVx9ppMwMhA4NYFgvRU7AaKOu8kgxawiXTcB/T9W8r+z81LKGl VxLZ7dlL4ttSn4EKgnQEen3UUTbbfvzIwGgLiCM/1MXdm9lqoRwwm9sPlKYfWg8kxFzy pgccGWfBBJIDYGzKaUy0fNcUktfHKbhAo/uZjoHVuY+Kjvz4uW2IP9QcgLW5fbZNB2vt 0OinmFud3DlVRNGu1mNtCcrQmwR6qvZHkQGC+Z/3QWXyJHnDabewzDBtmIBJ9fV9EUqO Dt+w== X-Gm-Message-State: ANhLgQ0nhhZ2txVjeItpcKptxIqdGhyjshYrw+az9jBecMdHD8qOuNYb TeYNplFIx9Bc8XAlJfQa/ZueudEKjwDQcw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADFU+vtkwyTcGeh7eWB6Y3oqkVZuC2UKdD/VquI9JrAI7ymvPgxEScsrOvd0IMz6AJkHpIOTbdjDGQ== X-Received: by 2002:a0d:e583:: with SMTP id o125mr18518729ywe.303.1583769017488; Mon, 09 Mar 2020 08:50:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brians-mbp-2871.lan ([72.23.94.147]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id z126sm7694191ywb.49.2020.03.09.08.50.16 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 09 Mar 2020 08:50:16 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.0 \(3608.40.2.2.4\)) From: Brian Rosen In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2020 11:50:15 -0400 Cc: Wayne Cutler , "enum@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: To: Bernie Hoeneisen X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.40.2.2.4) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Enum] ENUM Query X-BeenThere: enum@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Enum Discussion List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Mar 2020 15:50:22 -0000 I think adding new enumservices for both rcs and mmtel is a good way = forward. While we could eventually not see anyone using the sip enumservice for = messaging, it is, and will be widely used for voice calls. =20 Brian > On Mar 9, 2020, at 10:49 AM, Bernie Hoeneisen = wrote: >=20 > Hi Wayne >=20 > My comments inline. >=20 > On Mon, 9 Mar 2020, Wayne Cutler wrote: >=20 >> So, we are after a mechanism to get a SIP URI for the RCS Messaging = Services, and these services comprise things like 1:1 Chat, File = Transfer, Geolocation Push etc. >>=20 >> Regarding the differences between RCS Messaging and im/unifmsg, I = would say that :- >> 1) im allows users to send and receive typically short, often textual = messages in near real-time - which sounds a lot like RCS Chat - and = returns an IM URI. So, I think that RCS is more general than im and also = the need to translate from the im URI to a SIP URI is an additional = minor nuisance. >=20 >> 2) unifmsg is about having a unified (voice/video) mailbox capability = in the event of a user being unreachable. The RCS services aren't really = about the user being unreachable and so this is not really a good fit = IMO. >=20 > Thanks for clarification. >=20 >> So, I think the proposal to have a new Application-Based Enumservice = seems reasonable to me. What would be the next steps? Writing an = Internet Draft presumably? >=20 > RFC 6117 defines the process in details > cf. https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6117#section-6 >=20 >> Regarding the suggestion to also take a similar approach for MMTEL, I = think there are backwards compatibility issues as there are = implementations already out there that use the Protocol-Based = Enumservice "sip" for MMTEL. Therefore, this is something we wouldn't = want to do. >=20 > Not sure this creates a new backward compatibility issue. AFAICT, = using two new Enumservices, new systems would be more efficient and less = prone to ambiguities. And in the long run you'd get a clean system. >=20 > - for old systems you probably need to maintain "sip" (only) > (provision and lookup). You may add a recommendation to at > least provision also the new Enumservices "mmtel:sip" and "rcs:sip" > (pointing to the same as "sip"), which is easy to implement. >=20 > - for new systems you could specify: >=20 > - Lookup: use "rcs:sip" or "mmtel:sip" (with priority); > use "sip", only if no hit with rcs or mmtel (fallback) >=20 > - Provision: "rcs:sip" and "mmtel:sip" would point to the respecive > services, > while "sip" could be provisioned to help old systems to find the > correct service, e.g. a redirection service (or alike) or a system > that can deal with requests for the "wrong" (mmtel vs. rcs) = service. >=20 > You could deprecate "sip" Enumservice and after a long enough = transition period, you may get rid of the "sip" Enumservice altogether. >=20 > Does this make sense for your environment? >=20 > cheers > Bernie >=20 > _______________________________________________ > enum mailing list > enum@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/enum From nobody Fri Mar 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X-MS-Exchange-CrossPremises-transporttraffictype: Email X-MS-Exchange-CrossPremises-transporttrafficsubtype: X-MS-Exchange-CrossPremises-disclaimer-hash: aec8266e882fb4f8d424fb644b62ffb96bb5589a477100b41df8a31983dca2b9 X-MS-Exchange-CrossPremises-antispam-scancontext: DIR:Originating; SFV:NSPM; SKIP:0; X-MS-Exchange-CrossPremises-processed-by-journaling: Journal Agent X-OrganizationHeadersPreserved: DB7PR04MB4874.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Enum] ENUM Query X-BeenThere: enum@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Enum Discussion List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2020 11:54:59 -0000 VGhhbmtzIEJyaWFuICYgQmVybmllIGZvciB5b3VyIGZlZWRiYWNrLg0KDQpJIGNhbiBzZWUgdGhh dCBhZGRpbmcgbW10ZWwuc2lwIGRvZXMgY29tcGxpbWVudCByY3Muc2lwIGFuZCBpcyB1bmFtYmln dW91cyBpbiB0aGUgc2VydmljZSBzZXQgcHJvdmlkZWQgYnkgc3VjaCBhIHJlc3VsdC4NCg0KVGhl 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for ; Fri, 13 Mar 2020 05:09:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qv1-xf34.google.com with SMTP id p60so4400334qva.5 for ; Fri, 13 Mar 2020 05:09:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=brianrosen-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=az9UrpMv42sd8fIKln/a5WJuacjGEiCs3tWAQ5h5N28=; b=XWkcMRJlLHadYPuQwkF8Sug1mNjCqIEx3uSwmApurVQDIZeTqAI2XB1sVWRg1E5uyY 1RpYd66Cg0ciO4Rd/lGVk8HTJuVK2id7o2rv3ZjKrd2JKCz18uRvKRkCAntO4o641YGn Wgdd1h3v1Lkug0XQq25JqvysGKTZV6f2DxxX6WMNaNuXqmcmbwAI2xGBjrapsl4eigeC IyvQ4VrLj/P7b1dWvs5ppwyNT6oZr24U3LWnbR1ZrzP9YIVqgjw9lFw8B3SKPsSOrPP8 y/TRxCd8Sfgj0cxxMgfEecxKB6tN4jhlZR/O16F9elUlxiJ1IXZ5qSXOtX5rUPx6nPe9 97sg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=az9UrpMv42sd8fIKln/a5WJuacjGEiCs3tWAQ5h5N28=; b=UD/gZsLfUiJ4XJRlKyd7QS+wPT38b2KZMMd3Gc/pFAYMAngh8JsEF3ELaM2lMMjJ/c 9P+qLV6ZvM6xL+QFgl9sELYXRWVYZ4/RRT8+CeFsNn/93uDHD5Ip4UC0MjEEH0Yvz4H7 cstTESmxMkcJ4+YrmgNv+5fCPe31p49lSsPg0oV18HksNK8zjm6XFsEEWW8QZSr0sAgs QtLHHW/Ysgb9r9z0ykBuGMhMbRe7VlWySK5pEnwH9UEzaNCOfnwoEA3k6Ocf+YcJujY+ gsIHrkWXHj+wYcOtLEKw7SFOEjdlwRkxdr1jBrHDJprllWhU4ED+UJ+YEY7rpj7WAu5n dPcg== X-Gm-Message-State: ANhLgQ1relhT5lR4ZbOg9kQcGc6zW4NU66bCek3rp5vNdETHkt3yxkSw Ux4A9JTcdVGCZEl6JcwGNvOCqWMg9TFJ0ylPMhVIBeJA X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADFU+vtxgE+GlRwTCqxjM5Ada8J9wbsm32XTLHBTfudNhKd/qgRFdzSAaDbNy0EvCHAGSzrZoUUt/ECNlwH8sI/QLLo= X-Received: by 2002:a0c:f788:: with SMTP id s8mr554862qvn.236.1584101369253; Fri, 13 Mar 2020 05:09:29 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Brian Rosen Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2020 08:09:18 -0400 Message-ID: To: Wayne Cutler Cc: Bernie Hoeneisen , "enum@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000067203205a0bb57d7" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Enum] ENUM Query X-BeenThere: enum@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Enum Discussion List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2020 12:09:35 -0000 --00000000000067203205a0bb57d7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The registry is =E2=80=9Cspecification required=E2=80=9D which allows an In= formational. I would avoid discussing the root. You don=E2=80=99t need to do that. Just de= scribe the problem and create the new enumservices. Since the work group doesn=E2=80=99t exist anymore, you need an AD to spons= or it. Brian On Fri, Mar 13, 2020 at 7:54 AM Wayne Cutler wrote: > Thanks Brian & Bernie for your feedback. > > I can see that adding mmtel.sip does compliment rcs.sip and is unambiguou= s > in the service set provided by such a result. > > The current sip enumservice is currently used for MMTEL and both MMTEL & > RCS. In the former case, a number of those MNOs haven't launched RCS - an= d > therefore the sip enumservice means "all SIP-based services" or unified > communications. So, I don't think we would deprecate the use of the sip > enumservice - but could consider introducing the mmtel.sip service for > "MMTEL only". I will consult with parties internally and see what the > consensus is. > > As I've said previously, it is intended to use the new ENUM result(s) in > the so-called "Carrier ENUM" - a private ENUM infrastructure for the > telecommunications industry which uses the top level domain of " > e164enum.net" as opposed to "e164.arpa". Given that this is a private > infrastructure, using a different top level domain, would this new ENUM > service be appropriate for a standards track or informational RFC and wou= ld > it be permitted for the related internet draft to refer to the private " > e164enum.net" top level domain ? > > Best Regards, > Wayne > > -----Original Message----- > From: Brian Rosen [mailto:br@brianrosen.net] > Sent: 09 March 2020 15:50 > To: Bernie Hoeneisen > Cc: Wayne Cutler ; enum@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Enum] ENUM Query > > =E2=80=9CThis email has been received from an external source =E2=80=93 p= lease review > before actioning, clicking on links, or opening attachments=E2=80=9D > > > I think adding new enumservices for both rcs and mmtel is a good way > forward. > > While we could eventually not see anyone using the sip enumservice for > messaging, it is, and will be widely used for voice calls. > > Brian > > > On Mar 9, 2020, at 10:49 AM, Bernie Hoeneisen > wrote: > > > > Hi Wayne > > > > My comments inline. > > > > On Mon, 9 Mar 2020, Wayne Cutler wrote: > > > >> So, we are after a mechanism to get a SIP URI for the RCS Messaging > Services, and these services comprise things like 1:1 Chat, File Transfer= , > Geolocation Push etc. > >> > >> Regarding the differences between RCS Messaging and im/unifmsg, I > >> would say that :- > >> 1) im allows users to send and receive typically short, often textual > messages in near real-time - which sounds a lot like RCS Chat - and retur= ns > an IM URI. So, I think that RCS is more general than im and also the need > to translate from the im URI to a SIP URI is an additional minor nuisance= . > > > >> 2) unifmsg is about having a unified (voice/video) mailbox capability > in the event of a user being unreachable. The RCS services aren't really > about the user being unreachable and so this is not really a good fit IMO= . > > > > Thanks for clarification. > > > >> So, I think the proposal to have a new Application-Based Enumservice > seems reasonable to me. What would be the next steps? Writing an Internet > Draft presumably? > > > > RFC 6117 defines the process in details cf. > > https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftoo= l > > s.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Frfc6117%23section-6&data=3D02%7C01%7Cwcutler%40= g > > sma.com%7C7d31d0b4992a4b0afafe08d7c4419250%7C72a4ff82fec3469daafbac827 > > 6216699%7C0%7C0%7C637193658237974160&sdata=3DZhNt08ISuQHn%2FYRJUWBF= o > > HvmKS7MPI%2FI3SyUG9HWxY8%3D&reserved=3D0 > > > >> Regarding the suggestion to also take a similar approach for MMTEL, I > think there are backwards compatibility issues as there are implementatio= ns > already out there that use the Protocol-Based Enumservice "sip" for MMTEL= . > Therefore, this is something we wouldn't want to do. > > > > Not sure this creates a new backward compatibility issue. AFAICT, using > two new Enumservices, new systems would be more efficient and less prone = to > ambiguities. And in the long run you'd get a clean system. > > > > - for old systems you probably need to maintain "sip" (only) > > (provision and lookup). You may add a recommendation to at least > > provision also the new Enumservices "mmtel:sip" and "rcs:sip" > > (pointing to the same as "sip"), which is easy to implement. > > > > - for new systems you could specify: > > > > - Lookup: use "rcs:sip" or "mmtel:sip" (with priority); > > use "sip", only if no hit with rcs or mmtel (fallback) > > > > - Provision: "rcs:sip" and "mmtel:sip" would point to the respecive > > services, > > while "sip" could be provisioned to help old systems to find the > > correct service, e.g. a redirection service (or alike) or a system > > that can deal with requests for the "wrong" (mmtel vs. rcs) service. > > > > You could deprecate "sip" Enumservice and after a long enough transitio= n > period, you may get rid of the "sip" Enumservice altogether. > > > > Does this make sense for your environment? > > > > cheers > > Bernie > > > > _______________________________________________ > > enum mailing list > > enum@ietf.org > > https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww= . > > ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fenum&data=3D02%7C01%7Cwcutler%40gsm= a > > .com%7C7d31d0b4992a4b0afafe08d7c4419250%7C72a4ff82fec3469daafbac827621 > > 6699%7C0%7C0%7C637193658237974160&sdata=3DepNTFgp51vkSOeKW0PjJWVyHv= 9 > > wbuvpbvHzllK1C%2B4M%3D&reserved=3D0 > > . > --00000000000067203205a0bb57d7 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The registry is =E2=80=9Cspecification required=E2= =80=9D which allows an Informational. I would avoid discussing the root. Yo= u don=E2=80=99t need to do that. Just describe the problem and create the n= ew enumservices.=C2=A0

Since the work group doesn=E2=80=99t exist anymore, you need an AD to = sponsor it.

Brian
<= div>
On= Fri, Mar 13, 2020 at 7:54 AM Wayne Cutler <wcutler@gsma.com> wrote:
Thanks Brian & Bernie for your feedback.

I can see that adding mmtel.sip does compliment rcs.sip and is unambiguous = in the service set provided by such a result.

The current sip enumservice is currently used for MMTEL and both MMTEL &= ; RCS. In the former case, a number of those MNOs haven't launched RCS = - and therefore the sip enumservice means "all SIP-based services"= ; or unified communications. So, I don't think we would deprecate the u= se of the sip enumservice - but could consider introducing the mmtel.sip se= rvice for "MMTEL only". I will consult with parties internally an= d see what the consensus is.

As I've said previously, it is intended to use the new ENUM result(s) i= n the so-called "Carrier ENUM" - a private ENUM infrastructure fo= r the telecommunications industry which uses the top level domain of "= e164en= um.net" as opposed to "e164.arpa". Given that this is a = private infrastructure, using a different top level domain,=C2=A0 would thi= s new ENUM service be appropriate for a standards track or informational RF= C and would it be permitted for the related internet draft to refer to the = private "e164enum.net" top level domain ?

Best Regards,
Wayne

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Rosen [mailto:br@brianrosen.net]
Sent: 09 March 2020 15:50
To: Bernie Hoeneisen <bernie@ietf.hoeneisen.ch>
Cc: Wayne Cutler <= wcutler@gsma.com>; enum@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Enum] ENUM Query

=E2=80=9CThis email has been received from an external source =E2=80=93 ple= ase review before actioning, clicking on links, or opening attachments=E2= =80=9D


I think adding new enumservices for both rcs and mmtel is a good way forwar= d.

While we could eventually not see anyone using the sip enumservice for mess= aging, it is, and will be widely used for voice calls.

Brian

> On Mar 9, 2020, at 10:49 AM, Bernie Hoeneisen <bernie@ietf.hoeneisen.ch> = wrote:
>
> Hi Wayne
>
> My comments inline.
>
> On Mon, 9 Mar 2020, Wayne Cutler wrote:
>
>> So, we are after a mechanism to get a SIP URI for the RCS Messagin= g Services, and these services comprise things like 1:1 Chat, File Transfer= , Geolocation Push etc.
>>
>> Regarding the differences between RCS Messaging and im/unifmsg, I<= br> >> would say that :-
>> 1) im allows users to send and receive typically short, often text= ual messages in near real-time - which sounds a lot like RCS Chat - and ret= urns an IM URI. So, I think that RCS is more general than im and also the n= eed to translate from the im URI to a SIP URI is an additional minor nuisan= ce.
>
>> 2) unifmsg is about having a unified (voice/video) mailbox capabil= ity in the event of a user being unreachable. The RCS services aren't r= eally about the user being unreachable and so this is not really a good fit= IMO.
>
> Thanks for clarification.
>
>> So, I think the proposal to have a new Application-Based Enumservi= ce seems reasonable to me. What would be the next steps? Writing an Interne= t Draft presumably?
>
> RFC 6117 defines the process in details cf.
> https://eur03.safelinks= .protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftool
> s.i= etf.org%2Fhtml%2Frfc6117%23section-6&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Cwcutler%4= 0g
> sma.co= m%7C7d31d0b4992a4b0afafe08d7c4419250%7C72a4ff82fec3469daafbac827
> 6216699%7C0%7C0%7C637193658237974160&amp;sdata=3DZhNt08ISuQHn%2FYR= JUWBFo
> HvmKS7MPI%2FI3SyUG9HWxY8%3D&amp;reserved=3D0
>
>> Regarding the suggestion to also take a similar approach for MMTEL= , I think there are backwards compatibility issues as there are implementat= ions already out there that use the Protocol-Based Enumservice "sip&qu= ot; for MMTEL. Therefore, this is something we wouldn't want to do.
>
> Not sure this creates a new backward compatibility issue. AFAICT, usin= g two new Enumservices, new systems would be more efficient and less prone = to ambiguities. And in the long run you'd get a clean system.
>
> - for old systems you probably need to maintain "sip" (only)=
> (provision and lookup). You may add a recommendation to at=C2=A0 least=
> provision also the new Enumservices "mmtel:sip" and "rc= s:sip"
>=C2=A0 (pointing to the same as "sip"), which is easy to impl= ement.
>
> - for new systems you could specify:
>
>=C2=A0 - Lookup: use "rcs:sip" or "mmtel:sip" (with= priority);
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 use "sip", only if no hit with rcs or mmtel (fa= llback)
>
>=C2=A0 - Provision: "rcs:sip" and "mmtel:sip" would= point to the respecive
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 services,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 while "sip" could be provisioned to help old sy= stems to find the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 correct service, e.g. a redirection service (or alike) or= a system
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 that can deal with requests for the "wrong" (mm= tel vs. rcs) service.
>
> You could deprecate "sip" Enumservice and after a long enoug= h transition period, you may get rid of the "sip" Enumservice alt= ogether.
>
> Does this make sense for your environment?
>
> cheers
> Bernie
>
> _______________________________________________
> enum mailing list
> enum@ietf.org > https://eur03.safelinks.= protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.
> ietf.= org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fenum&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Cwcutler%40gsma=
> .com%7C7d31d0b4992a4b0afafe08d7c4419250%7C72a4ff82fec3469daafbac827621=
> 6699%7C0%7C0%7C637193658237974160&amp;sdata=3DepNTFgp51vkSOeKW0PjJ= WVyHv9
> wbuvpbvHzllK1C%2B4M%3D&amp;reserved=3D0

.
--00000000000067203205a0bb57d7-- From nobody Fri Mar 13 06:51:51 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: enum@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: enum@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 152B23A07EE for ; Fri, 13 Mar 2020 06:51:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IjWdOq5Z2O2V for ; Fri, 13 Mar 2020 06:51:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from softronics.hoeneisen.ch (softronics.hoeneisen.ch [62.2.86.178]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2C8163A081B for ; Fri, 13 Mar 2020 06:51:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by softronics.hoeneisen.ch with esmtp (Exim 4.86_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jCkit-0005C8-Gp; Fri, 13 Mar 2020 14:51:35 +0100 Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2020 14:51:35 +0100 (CET) From: Bernie Hoeneisen X-X-Sender: bhoeneis@softronics.hoeneisen.ch To: Brian Rosen cc: Wayne Cutler , "enum@ietf.org" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: User-Agent: Alpine 2.20 (DEB 67 2015-01-07) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; BOUNDARY="37663318-217761771-1584107495=:19532" X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 127.0.0.1 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: bernie@ietf.hoeneisen.ch X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on softronics.hoeneisen.ch); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Enum] ENUM Query X-BeenThere: enum@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Enum Discussion List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2020 13:51:49 -0000 This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. --37663318-217761771-1584107495=:19532 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Wayne, independent stream is also an option. But as Brian said, just make an Internet-Draft and I will help you to sort out the RFC-stream later. You may want to (re-)read the relevant section in RFC 6117 on the process, where all this stuff is specified. cheers, Bernie -- http://ucom.ch/ Modern Telephony Solutions and Tech Consulting for Internet Technology On Fri, 13 Mar 2020, Brian Rosen wrote: > The registry is “specification required” which allows an Informational. I would avoid discussing the root. You don’t need to do that. > Just describe the problem and create the new enumservices.  > > Since the work group doesn’t exist anymore, you need an AD to sponsor it. > > Brian > > On Fri, Mar 13, 2020 at 7:54 AM Wayne Cutler wrote: > Thanks Brian & Bernie for your feedback. > > I can see that adding mmtel.sip does compliment rcs.sip and is unambiguous in the service set provided by such a result. > > The current sip enumservice is currently used for MMTEL and both MMTEL & RCS. In the former case, a number of those MNOs > haven't launched RCS - and therefore the sip enumservice means "all SIP-based services" or unified communications. So, I > don't think we would deprecate the use of the sip enumservice - but could consider introducing the mmtel.sip service for > "MMTEL only". I will consult with parties internally and see what the consensus is. > > As I've said previously, it is intended to use the new ENUM result(s) in the so-called "Carrier ENUM" - a private ENUM > infrastructure for the telecommunications industry which uses the top level domain of "e164enum.net" as opposed to > "e164.arpa". Given that this is a private infrastructure, using a different top level domain,  would this new ENUM service > be appropriate for a standards track or informational RFC and would it be permitted for the related internet draft to refer > to the private "e164enum.net" top level domain ? > > Best Regards, > Wayne > > -----Original Message----- > From: Brian Rosen [mailto:br@brianrosen.net] > Sent: 09 March 2020 15:50 > To: Bernie Hoeneisen > Cc: Wayne Cutler ; enum@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Enum] ENUM Query > > “This email has been received from an external source – please review before actioning, clicking on links, or opening > attachments” > > > I think adding new enumservices for both rcs and mmtel is a good way forward. > > While we could eventually not see anyone using the sip enumservice for messaging, it is, and will be widely used for voice > calls. > > Brian > > > On Mar 9, 2020, at 10:49 AM, Bernie Hoeneisen wrote: > > > > Hi Wayne > > > > My comments inline. > > > > On Mon, 9 Mar 2020, Wayne Cutler wrote: > > > >> So, we are after a mechanism to get a SIP URI for the RCS Messaging Services, and these services comprise things like 1:1 > Chat, File Transfer, Geolocation Push etc. > >> > >> Regarding the differences between RCS Messaging and im/unifmsg, I > >> would say that :- > >> 1) im allows users to send and receive typically short, often textual messages in near real-time - which sounds a lot > like RCS Chat - and returns an IM URI. So, I think that RCS is more general than im and also the need to translate from the > im URI to a SIP URI is an additional minor nuisance. > > > >> 2) unifmsg is about having a unified (voice/video) mailbox capability in the event of a user being unreachable. The RCS > services aren't really about the user being unreachable and so this is not really a good fit IMO. > > > > Thanks for clarification. > > > >> So, I think the proposal to have a new Application-Based Enumservice seems reasonable to me. What would be the next > steps? Writing an Internet Draft presumably? > > > > RFC 6117 defines the process in details cf. > > https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftool > > s.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Frfc6117%23section-6&data=02%7C01%7Cwcutler%40g > > sma.com%7C7d31d0b4992a4b0afafe08d7c4419250%7C72a4ff82fec3469daafbac827 > > 6216699%7C0%7C0%7C637193658237974160&sdata=ZhNt08ISuQHn%2FYRJUWBFo > > HvmKS7MPI%2FI3SyUG9HWxY8%3D&reserved=0 > > > >> Regarding the suggestion to also take a similar approach for MMTEL, I think there are backwards compatibility issues as > there are implementations already out there that use the Protocol-Based Enumservice "sip" for MMTEL. Therefore, this is > something we wouldn't want to do. > > > > Not sure this creates a new backward compatibility issue. AFAICT, using two new Enumservices, new systems would be more > efficient and less prone to ambiguities. And in the long run you'd get a clean system. > > > > - for old systems you probably need to maintain "sip" (only) > > (provision and lookup). You may add a recommendation to at  least > > provision also the new Enumservices "mmtel:sip" and "rcs:sip" > >  (pointing to the same as "sip"), which is easy to implement. > > > > - for new systems you could specify: > > > >  - Lookup: use "rcs:sip" or "mmtel:sip" (with priority); > >    use "sip", only if no hit with rcs or mmtel (fallback) > > > >  - Provision: "rcs:sip" and "mmtel:sip" would point to the respecive > >    services, > >    while "sip" could be provisioned to help old systems to find the > >    correct service, e.g. a redirection service (or alike) or a system > >    that can deal with requests for the "wrong" (mmtel vs. rcs) service. > > > > You could deprecate "sip" Enumservice and after a long enough transition period, you may get rid of the "sip" Enumservice > altogether. > > > > Does this make sense for your environment? > > > > cheers > > Bernie > > > > _______________________________________________ > > enum mailing list > > enum@ietf.org > > https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww. > > ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fenum&data=02%7C01%7Cwcutler%40gsma > > .com%7C7d31d0b4992a4b0afafe08d7c4419250%7C72a4ff82fec3469daafbac827621 > > 6699%7C0%7C0%7C637193658237974160&sdata=epNTFgp51vkSOeKW0PjJWVyHv9 > > wbuvpbvHzllK1C%2B4M%3D&reserved=0 > > . > > > --37663318-217761771-1584107495=:19532-- From nobody Fri Mar 13 07:10:39 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: enum@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: enum@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 872C63A07CE for ; Fri, 13 Mar 2020 07:10:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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Received: by mail-qk1-x72b.google.com with SMTP id f3so12690605qkh.1 for ; Fri, 13 Mar 2020 07:14:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=brianrosen-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=5U4cClAZz4ePs2NO+G7A6b4NpW2keEV7IZ7Xxn86UXQ=; b=vHBroumvmwgGXC6VnyQhOxqmmELqA2D78hC5iaClQWxTdJ8k3ePSs0FaE0e+FyKKu+ EcMe+rxDEn87sZVDI40JWQLyVoRAmq5M0SxiGsviwBYfdYRT7ffLZ8TbbMGjX4S0EGv7 inpdxGFQv6eWbzzKcbhbWPob1FibkmNfhvpokpzeGH/C4A5Y9gePXaNpItHbbb26Iizv wZ6fWdvFg7Oe7nCU9heFpZcAT9+jLqyPathDTk0sAy1RJSTGUuwIXZybJUs1PN/s3dwR qwrMMsnJHjQxPGuj/OEyGUzKhSDN3+Mov+pLeWu/2xIbceJI3a/ZpGSQDQQQD4poZN+o EUnw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=5U4cClAZz4ePs2NO+G7A6b4NpW2keEV7IZ7Xxn86UXQ=; b=WL+xcgerPe7xXDy2u4xVRIlGfBzf3LOmPox6HbrJc3Q/0lsf+K0xKzqz0zUDPqQrgY 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list List-Id: Enum Discussion List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2020 14:14:35 -0000 --00000000000069144905a0bd1690 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Nope, you just ask one. As a practical matter, you should probably recruit an experienced IETFer to help you through this. It will be much easier on everyone. I=E2=80=99m personally not a fan of independent stream for this. It=E2=80= =99s squarely in the IETF area of expertise and I think we want the full IETF consensus process. But it=E2=80=99s up to you how you do it. Brian On Fri, Mar 13, 2020 at 10:10 AM Wayne Cutler wrote: > Thanks for the response Brian. Is there a set procedure to get =E2=80=9Ca= n AD to > sponsor=E2=80=9D? > > > > Regards, > > Wayne > > > > *From:* Brian Rosen [mailto:br@brianrosen.net] > *Sent:* 13 March 2020 12:09 > *To:* Wayne Cutler > > *Cc:* Bernie Hoeneisen ; enum@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: [Enum] ENUM Query > > > > =E2=80=9CThis email has been received from an external source =E2=80=93 p= lease review > before actioning, clicking on links, or opening attachments=E2=80=9D > > > > The registry is =E2=80=9Cspecification required=E2=80=9D which allows an = Informational. I > would avoid discussing the root. You don=E2=80=99t need to do that. Just = describe > the problem and create the new enumservices. > > > > Since the work group doesn=E2=80=99t exist anymore, you need an AD to spo= nsor it. > > > > Brian > > > > On Fri, Mar 13, 2020 at 7:54 AM Wayne Cutler wrote: > > Thanks Brian & Bernie for your feedback. > > I can see that adding mmtel.sip does compliment rcs.sip and is unambiguou= s > in the service set provided by such a result. > > The current sip enumservice is currently used for MMTEL and both MMTEL & > RCS. In the former case, a number of those MNOs haven't launched RCS - an= d > therefore the sip enumservice means "all SIP-based services" or unified > communications. So, I don't think we would deprecate the use of the sip > enumservice - but could consider introducing the mmtel.sip service for > "MMTEL only". I will consult with parties internally and see what the > consensus is. > > As I've said previously, it is intended to use the new ENUM result(s) in > the so-called "Carrier ENUM" - a private ENUM infrastructure for the > telecommunications industry which uses the top level domain of " > e164enum.net > " > as opposed to "e164.arpa". Given that this is a private infrastructure, > using a different top level domain, would this new ENUM service be > appropriate for a standards track or informational RFC and would it be > permitted for the related internet draft to refer to the private " > e164enum.net > " > top level domain ? > > Best Regards, > Wayne > > -----Original Message----- > From: Brian Rosen [mailto:br@brianrosen.net] > Sent: 09 March 2020 15:50 > To: Bernie Hoeneisen > Cc: Wayne Cutler ; enum@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Enum] ENUM Query > > =E2=80=9CThis email has been received from an external source =E2=80=93 p= lease review > before actioning, clicking on links, or opening attachments=E2=80=9D > > > I think adding new enumservices for both rcs and mmtel is a good way > forward. > > While we could eventually not see anyone using the sip enumservice for > messaging, it is, and will be widely used for voice calls. > > Brian > > > On Mar 9, 2020, at 10:49 AM, Bernie Hoeneisen > wrote: > > > > Hi Wayne > > > > My comments inline. > > > > On Mon, 9 Mar 2020, Wayne Cutler wrote: > > > >> So, we are after a mechanism to get a SIP URI for the RCS Messaging > Services, and these services comprise things like 1:1 Chat, File Transfer= , > Geolocation Push etc. > >> > >> Regarding the differences between RCS Messaging and im/unifmsg, I > >> would say that :- > >> 1) im allows users to send and receive typically short, often textual > messages in near real-time - which sounds a lot like RCS Chat - and retur= ns > an IM URI. So, I think that RCS is more general than im and also the need > to translate from the im URI to a SIP URI is an additional minor nuisance= . > > > >> 2) unifmsg is about having a unified (voice/video) mailbox capability > in the event of a user being unreachable. The RCS services aren't really > about the user being unreachable and so this is not really a good fit IMO= . > > > > Thanks for clarification. > > > >> So, I think the proposal to have a new Application-Based Enumservice > seems reasonable to me. What would be the next steps? Writing an Internet > Draft presumably? > > > > RFC 6117 defines the process in details cf. > > https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftoo= l > > s.ietf.org > > %2Fhtml%2Frfc6117%23section-6&data=3D02%7C01%7Cwcutler%40g > > sma.com > > %7C7d31d0b4992a4b0afafe08d7c4419250%7C72a4ff82fec3469daafbac827 > > 6216699%7C0%7C0%7C637193658237974160&sdata=3DZhNt08ISuQHn%2FYRJUWBF= o > > HvmKS7MPI%2FI3SyUG9HWxY8%3D&reserved=3D0 > > > >> Regarding the suggestion to also take a similar approach for MMTEL, I > think there are backwards compatibility issues as there are implementatio= ns > already out there that use the Protocol-Based Enumservice "sip" for MMTEL= . > Therefore, this is something we wouldn't want to do. > > > > Not sure this creates a new backward compatibility issue. AFAICT, using > two new Enumservices, new systems would be more efficient and less prone = to > ambiguities. And in the long run you'd get a clean system. > > > > - for old systems you probably need to maintain "sip" (only) > > (provision and lookup). You may add a recommendation to at least > > provision also the new Enumservices "mmtel:sip" and "rcs:sip" > > (pointing to the same as "sip"), which is easy to implement. > > > > - for new systems you could specify: > > > > - Lookup: use "rcs:sip" or "mmtel:sip" (with priority); > > use "sip", only if no hit with rcs or mmtel (fallback) > > > > - Provision: "rcs:sip" and "mmtel:sip" would point to the respecive > > services, > > while "sip" could be provisioned to help old systems to find the > > correct service, e.g. a redirection service (or alike) or a system > > that can deal with requests for the "wrong" (mmtel vs. rcs) service. > > > > You could deprecate "sip" Enumservice and after a long enough transitio= n > period, you may get rid of the "sip" Enumservice altogether. > > > > Does this make sense for your environment? > > > > cheers > > Bernie > > > > _______________________________________________ > > enum mailing list > > enum@ietf.org > > https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww= . > > ietf.org > > %2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fenum&data=3D02%7C01%7Cwcutler%40gsma > > .com%7C7d31d0b4992a4b0afafe08d7c4419250%7C72a4ff82fec3469daafbac827621 > > 6699%7C0%7C0%7C637193658237974160&sdata=3DepNTFgp51vkSOeKW0PjJWVyHv= 9 > > wbuvpbvHzllK1C%2B4M%3D&reserved=3D0 > > . > > . > --00000000000069144905a0bd1690 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Nope, you just ask one. As a practical matter, you s= hould probably recruit an experienced IETFer to help you through this. It w= ill be much easier on everyone.=C2=A0

I=E2=80=99m personally not a fan of independent stream = for this. It=E2=80=99s squarely in the IETF area of expertise and I think w= e want the full IETF consensus process.=C2=A0

But it=E2=80=99s up to you how you do it.

Brian

On Fri, Mar 13, 2020 at 1= 0:10 AM Wayne Cutler <wcutler@gsma.c= om> wrote:

Thanks for the response Brian. Is the= re a set procedure to get =E2=80=9Can AD to sponsor=E2=80=9D?=

=C2=A0

Regards,

Wayne

=C2=A0

From: = Brian Rosen [mailto:= br@brianrosen.net]
Sent: 13 March 2020 12:09
To: Wayne Cutler <wcutler@gsma.com>

=

Cc: Bernie Hoeneisen <bernie@ietf.hoene= isen.ch>; enum@ie= tf.org
Subject: Re: [Enum] ENUM Query

<= /div>

=C2=A0

=E2=80=9CThis email has be= en received from an external source =E2=80=93 please review before actionin= g, clicking on links, or opening attachments=E2=80=9D<= /p>

=C2=A0

The registry is =E2=80=9Cspecification required=E2= =80=9D which allows an Informational. I would avoid discussing the root. Yo= u don=E2=80=99t need to do that. Just describe the problem and create the n= ew enumservices.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Since the work group doesn=E2=80=99t exist anymore, = you need an AD to sponsor it.

=C2=A0

Brian

=C2=A0

On Fri, Mar 13, 2020 at 7:54 AM Wayne Cutler <wcutler@gsma.com>= wrote:

Thanks Brian & Bernie for your feedback.

I can see that adding mmtel.sip does compliment rcs.sip and is unambiguous = in the service set provided by such a result.

The current sip enumservice is currently used for MMTEL and both MMTEL &= ; RCS. In the former case, a number of those MNOs haven't launched RCS = - and therefore the sip enumservice means "all SIP-based services"= ; or unified communications. So, I don't think we would deprecate the use of the sip enumservice - but could consider introd= ucing the mmtel.sip service for "MMTEL only". I will consult with= parties internally and see what the consensus is.

As I've said previously, it is intended to use the new ENUM result(s) i= n the so-called "Carrier ENUM" - a private ENUM infrastructure fo= r the telecommunications industry which uses the top level domain of "= e164enum.net" as opposed to "e164.arpa". Given that this is a private infrastr= ucture, using a different top level domain,=C2=A0 would this new ENUM servi= ce be appropriate for a standards track or informational RFC and would it b= e permitted for the related internet draft to refer to the private "e164enum.net"= ; top level domain ?

Best Regards,
Wayne

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Rosen [mailto:br@brianrosen.net]
Sent: 09 March 2020 15:50
To: Bernie Hoeneisen <bernie@ietf.hoeneisen.ch>
Cc: Wayne Cutler <= wcutler@gsma.com>; enum@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Enum] ENUM Query

=E2=80=9CThis email has been received from an external source =E2=80=93 ple= ase review before actioning, clicking on links, or opening attachments=E2= =80=9D


I think adding new enumservices for both rcs and mmtel is a good way forwar= d.

While we could eventually not see anyone using the sip enumservice for mess= aging, it is, and will be widely used for voice calls.

Brian

> On Mar 9, 2020, at 10:49 AM, Bernie Hoeneisen <bernie@ietf.hoeneisen.ch> = wrote:
>
> Hi Wayne
>
> My comments inline.
>
> On Mon, 9 Mar 2020, Wayne Cutler wrote:
>
>> So, we are after a mechanism to get a SIP URI for the RCS Messagin= g Services, and these services comprise things like 1:1 Chat, File Transfer= , Geolocation Push etc.
>>
>> Regarding the differences between RCS Messaging and im/unifmsg, I<= br> >> would say that :-
>> 1) im allows users to send and receive typically short, often text= ual messages in near real-time - which sounds a lot like RCS Chat - and ret= urns an IM URI. So, I think that RCS is more general than im and also the n= eed to translate from the im URI to a SIP URI is an additional minor nuisance.
>
>> 2) unifmsg is about having a unified (voice/video) mailbox capabil= ity in the event of a user being unreachable. The RCS services aren't r= eally about the user being unreachable and so this is not really a good fit= IMO.
>
> Thanks for clarification.
>
>> So, I think the proposal to have a new Application-Based Enumservi= ce seems reasonable to me. What would be the next steps? Writing an Interne= t Draft presumably?
>
> RFC 6117 defines the process in details cf.
> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftool
> s.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Frfc6117%23section-6&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Cwcutle= r%40g
> sma.com%7C7d31d0b4992a4b0afafe08d7c4419250%7C72a4ff82fec3469daafbac827<= br> > 6216699%7C0%7C0%7C637193658237974160&amp;sdata=3DZhNt08ISuQHn%2FYR= JUWBFo
> HvmKS7MPI%2FI3SyUG9HWxY8%3D&amp;reserved=3D0
>
>> Regarding the suggestion to also take a similar approach for MMTEL= , I think there are backwards compatibility issues as there are implementat= ions already out there that use the Protocol-Based Enumservice "sip&qu= ot; for MMTEL. Therefore, this is something we wouldn't want to do.
>
> Not sure this creates a new backward compatibility issue. AFAICT, usin= g two new Enumservices, new systems would be more efficient and less prone = to ambiguities. And in the long run you'd get a clean system.
>
> - for old systems you probably need to maintain "sip" (only)=
> (provision and lookup). You may add a recommendation to at=C2=A0 least=
> provision also the new Enumservices "mmtel:sip" and "rc= s:sip"
>=C2=A0 (pointing to the same as "sip"), which is easy to impl= ement.
>
> - for new systems you could specify:
>
>=C2=A0 - Lookup: use "rcs:sip" or "mmtel:sip" (with= priority);
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 use "sip", only if no hit with rcs or mmtel (fa= llback)
>
>=C2=A0 - Provision: "rcs:sip" and "mmtel:sip" would= point to the respecive
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 services,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 while "sip" could be provisioned to help old sy= stems to find the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 correct service, e.g. a redirection service (or alike) or= a system
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 that can deal with requests for the "wrong" (mm= tel vs. rcs) service.
>
> You could deprecate "sip" Enumservice and after a long enoug= h transition period, you may get rid of the "sip" Enumservice alt= ogether.
>
> Does this make sense for your environment?
>
> cheers
> Bernie
>
> _______________________________________________
> enum mailing list
> enum@ietf.org > https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww= .
> ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fenum&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Cwcutler%4= 0gsma
> .com%7C7d31d0b4992a4b0afafe08d7c4419250%7C72a4ff82fec3469daafbac827621=
> 6699%7C0%7C0%7C637193658237974160&amp;sdata=3DepNTFgp51vkSOeKW0PjJ= WVyHv9
> wbuvpbvHzllK1C%2B4M%3D&amp;reserved=3D0

.

.

--00000000000069144905a0bd1690-- From nobody Fri Mar 13 08:47:59 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: enum@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: enum@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F1393A0D09 for ; Fri, 13 Mar 2020 08:47:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.118 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.118 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=0.001, SPF_NEUTRAL=0.779, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (768-bit key) header.d=shockey.us Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xczsbvJ9COY0 for ; Fri, 13 Mar 2020 08:47:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gateway30.websitewelcome.com (gateway30.websitewelcome.com [192.185.197.25]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 697623A0D1C for ; Fri, 13 Mar 2020 08:47:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cm16.websitewelcome.com (cm16.websitewelcome.com [100.42.49.19]) by gateway30.websitewelcome.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF6B036BD6D for ; Fri, 13 Mar 2020 10:47:44 -0500 (CDT) Received: from box5527.bluehost.com ([162.241.218.19]) by cmsmtp with SMTP id CmXIjxGjB8vkBCmXIjpQqr; Fri, 13 Mar 2020 10:47:44 -0500 X-Authority-Reason: nr=8 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=shockey.us; s=default; h=Content-type:Mime-version:In-Reply-To:References:Message-ID:CC: To:From:Subject:Date:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=1KQippNjYlQO9lqo+CziK1yJ/zJEtryXBHaXcT/IbSA=; b=Y9/ldeN2HCrKnR3PnaS85FaYLG R3akIuM3qh8nHYYDv40w6FLQW7r5TUg/HSHlxt0iD3cVDdPou8frK0ULk2DgUtAxJ5FWA+Qj6Gwei 5nlxlgdonaEEympEcMO91M6eK; Received: from pool-100-36-47-17.washdc.fios.verizon.net ([100.36.47.17]:49599 helo=[192.168.1.156]) by box5527.bluehost.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jCmXI-0013cZ-8q; Fri, 13 Mar 2020 09:47:44 -0600 User-Agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/16.35.20030802 Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2020 11:47:42 -0400 From: Richard Shockey To: Brian Rosen , Wayne Cutler CC: "enum@ietf.org" , Bernie Hoeneisen Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [Enum] ENUM Query References: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="B_3666944864_1680481825" X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - box5527.bluehost.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - shockey.us X-BWhitelist: no X-Source-IP: 100.36.47.17 X-Source-L: No X-Exim-ID: 1jCmXI-0013cZ-8q X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Source-Sender: pool-100-36-47-17.washdc.fios.verizon.net ([192.168.1.156]) [100.36.47.17]:49599 X-Source-Auth: richard+shockey.us X-Email-Count: 2 X-Source-Cap: c2hvY2tleXU7c2hvY2tleXU7Ym94NTUyNy5ibHVlaG9zdC5jb20= X-Local-Domain: yes Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Enum] ENUM Query X-BeenThere: enum@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Enum Discussion List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2020 15:47:56 -0000 > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --B_3666944864_1680481825 Content-type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable =20 I certainly don=E2=80=99t have a problem with the independent stream. IMHO this i= s exactly what the system was designed to do. =20 =20 =E2=80=94=20 Richard Shockey Shockey Consulting LLC Chairman of the Board SIP Forum www.shockey.us www.sipforum.org richardshockey.us Skype-Linkedin-Facebook =E2=80=93Twitter rshockey101 PSTN +1 703-593-2683 =20 =20 From: enum on behalf of Brian Rosen Date: Friday, March 13, 2020 at 10:14 AM To: Wayne Cutler Cc: "enum@ietf.org" , Bernie Hoeneisen Subject: Re: [Enum] ENUM Query =20 Nope, you just ask one. As a practical matter, you should probably recruit = an experienced IETFer to help you through this. It will be much easier on ev= eryone.=20 =20 I=E2=80=99m personally not a fan of independent stream for this. It=E2=80=99s squarely = in the IETF area of expertise and I think we want the full IETF consensus pr= ocess.=20 =20 But it=E2=80=99s up to you how you do it. =20 Brian =20 On Fri, Mar 13, 2020 at 10:10 AM Wayne Cutler wrote: Thanks for the response Brian. Is there a set procedure to get =E2=80=9Can AD to = sponsor=E2=80=9D? =20 Regards, Wayne =20 From: Brian Rosen [mailto:br@brianrosen.net]=20 Sent: 13 March 2020 12:09 To: Wayne Cutler Cc: Bernie Hoeneisen ; enum@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Enum] ENUM Query =20 =E2=80=9CThis email has been received from an external source =E2=80=93 please review b= efore actioning, clicking on links, or opening attachments=E2=80=9D =20 The registry is =E2=80=9Cspecification required=E2=80=9D which allows an Informational.= I would avoid discussing the root. You don=E2=80=99t need to do that. Just descri= be the problem and create the new enumservices.=20 =20 Since the work group doesn=E2=80=99t exist anymore, you need an AD to sponsor it. =20 Brian =20 On Fri, Mar 13, 2020 at 7:54 AM Wayne Cutler wrote: Thanks Brian & Bernie for your feedback. I can see that adding mmtel.sip does compliment rcs.sip and is unambiguous = in the service set provided by such a result. The current sip enumservice is currently used for MMTEL and both MMTEL & RC= S. In the former case, a number of those MNOs haven't launched RCS - and the= refore the sip enumservice means "all SIP-based services" or unified communi= cations. So, I don't think we would deprecate the use of the sip enumservice= - but could consider introducing the mmtel.sip service for "MMTEL only". I = will consult with parties internally and see what the consensus is. As I've said previously, it is intended to use the new ENUM result(s) in th= e so-called "Carrier ENUM" - a private ENUM infrastructure for the telecommu= nications industry which uses the top level domain of "e164enum.net" as oppo= sed to "e164.arpa". Given that this is a private infrastructure, using a dif= ferent top level domain, would this new ENUM service be appropriate for a s= tandards track or informational RFC and would it be permitted for the relate= d internet draft to refer to the private "e164enum.net" top level domain ? Best Regards, Wayne -----Original Message----- From: Brian Rosen [mailto:br@brianrosen.net] Sent: 09 March 2020 15:50 To: Bernie Hoeneisen Cc: Wayne Cutler ; enum@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Enum] ENUM Query =E2=80=9CThis email has been received from an external source =E2=80=93 please review b= efore actioning, clicking on links, or opening attachments=E2=80=9D I think adding new enumservices for both rcs and mmtel is a good way forwar= d. While we could eventually not see anyone using the sip enumservice for mess= aging, it is, and will be widely used for voice calls. Brian > On Mar 9, 2020, at 10:49 AM, Bernie Hoeneisen = wrote: > > Hi Wayne > > My comments inline. > > On Mon, 9 Mar 2020, Wayne Cutler wrote: > >> So, we are after a mechanism to get a SIP URI for the RCS Messaging Serv= ices, and these services comprise things like 1:1 Chat, File Transfer, Geolo= cation Push etc. >> >> Regarding the differences between RCS Messaging and im/unifmsg, I >> would say that :- >> 1) im allows users to send and receive typically short, often textual me= ssages in near real-time - which sounds a lot like RCS Chat - and returns an= IM URI. So, I think that RCS is more general than im and also the need to t= ranslate from the im URI to a SIP URI is an additional minor nuisance. > >> 2) unifmsg is about having a unified (voice/video) mailbox capability in= the event of a user being unreachable. The RCS services aren't really about= the user being unreachable and so this is not really a good fit IMO. > > Thanks for clarification. > >> So, I think the proposal to have a new Application-Based Enumservice see= ms reasonable to me. What would be the next steps? Writing an Internet Draft= presumably? > > RFC 6117 defines the process in details cf. > https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftool > s.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Frfc6117%23section-6&data=3D02%7C01%7Cwcutler%40g > sma.com%7C7d31d0b4992a4b0afafe08d7c4419250%7C72a4ff82fec3469daafbac827 > 6216699%7C0%7C0%7C637193658237974160&sdata=3DZhNt08ISuQHn%2FYRJUWBFo > HvmKS7MPI%2FI3SyUG9HWxY8%3D&reserved=3D0 > >> Regarding the suggestion to also take a similar approach for MMTEL, I th= ink there are backwards compatibility issues as there are implementations al= ready out there that use the Protocol-Based Enumservice "sip" for MMTEL. The= refore, this is something we wouldn't want to do. > > Not sure this creates a new backward compatibility issue. AFAICT, using t= wo new Enumservices, new systems would be more efficient and less prone to a= mbiguities. And in the long run you'd get a clean system. > > - for old systems you probably need to maintain "sip" (only) > (provision and lookup). You may add a recommendation to at least > provision also the new Enumservices "mmtel:sip" and "rcs:sip" > (pointing to the same as "sip"), which is easy to implement. > > - for new systems you could specify: > > - Lookup: use "rcs:sip" or "mmtel:sip" (with priority); > use "sip", only if no hit with rcs or mmtel (fallback) > > - Provision: "rcs:sip" and "mmtel:sip" would point to the respecive > services, > while "sip" could be provisioned to help old systems to find the > correct service, e.g. a redirection service (or alike) or a system > that can deal with requests for the "wrong" (mmtel vs. rcs) service. > > You could deprecate "sip" Enumservice and after a long enough transition = period, you may get rid of the "sip" Enumservice altogether. > > Does this make sense for your environment? > > cheers > Bernie > > _______________________________________________ > enum mailing list > enum@ietf.org > https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.. > ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fenum&data=3D02%7C01%7Cwcutler%40gsma > .com%7C7d31d0b4992a4b0afafe08d7c4419250%7C72a4ff82fec3469daafbac827621 > 6699%7C0%7C0%7C637193658237974160&sdata=3DepNTFgp51vkSOeKW0PjJWVyHv9 > wbuvpbvHzllK1C%2B4M%3D&reserved=3D0 .. . _______________________________________________ enum mailing list enum@ietf= .org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/enum=20 --B_3666944864_1680481825 Content-type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable

 

I certainl= y don=E2=80=99t have a problem with the independent stream. IMHO this is exactly w= hat the system was designed to do.

&nb= sp;

 

=E2=80=94 

Richard Shockey

Shockey Consulting LLC

Chairman of the Board SIP Forum

www.shockey.us

www.sipforum.org

richard<at>shockey.us

Skype-Linkedin-Facebook =E2=80=93T= witter  rshockey101

PSTN +1 703-593-2683

 

 

From: <= span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>enum <enum-bounces@ietf.org>= on behalf of Brian Rosen <br@brianrosen.net>
Date: Friday, = March 13, 2020 at 10:14 AM
To: Wayne Cutler <wcutler@gsma.com&g= t;
Cc: "enum@ietf.org" <enum@ietf.org>, Bernie Hoe= neisen <bernie@ietf.hoeneisen.ch>
Subject: Re: [Enum] ENUM Q= uery

 

Nope, you just ask one. As a practical m= atter, you should probably recruit an experienced IETFer to help you through= this. It will be much easier on everyone. 

<= div>

 

I=E2= =80=99m personally not a fan of independent stream for this. It=E2=80=99s squarely in = the IETF area of expertise and I think we want the full IETF consensus proce= ss. 

 

<= /div>

But it=E2=80=99s up to you how you do it.<= /p>

 

Brian

 <= /p>

On Fri, Mar 13, 2020 at 10:10 AM Wayne Cutle= r <wcutler@gsma.com> wrote:=

<= p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'= >Thanks for the response Brian. Is th= ere a set procedure to get =E2=80=9Can AD to sponsor=E2=80=9D?

 

Regards,

Wayne

 

From: Brian Rosen [mailto:br@brianrosen.net]
Sent: 13 March 2020 12:09
To:<= /b> Wayne Cutler <wcutl= er@gsma.com>

=

Cc: Bernie Hoeneisen <bernie@ietf.hoeneisen.ch>;= enum@ietf.org
Subj= ect: Re: [Enum] ENUM Query

<= /div>

 

=E2=80=9CThis email has been received from= an external source =E2=80=93 please review before actioning, clicking on links, o= r opening attachments=E2=80=9D

=

 

The registry is =E2=80=9Cspecification required=E2=80=9D which allows an Informatio= nal. I would avoid discussing the root. You don=E2=80=99t need to do that. Just de= scribe the problem and create the new enumservices. <= /p>

 

Since the work group doesn=E2=80=99t exist anymore, you need = an AD to sponsor it.

&nbs= p;

Brian

 

<= span lang=3DEN-GB>On Fri, Mar 13, 2020 at 7:54 AM Wayne Cutler <wcutler@gsma.com> wrote:<= /o:p>

Thanks Brian & Bernie= for your feedback.

I can see that adding mmtel.sip does compliment r= cs.sip and is unambiguous in the service set provided by such a result.
<= br>The current sip enumservice is currently used for MMTEL and both MMTEL &a= mp; RCS. In the former case, a number of those MNOs haven't launched RCS - a= nd therefore the sip enumservice means "all SIP-based services" or= unified communications. So, I don't think we would deprecate the use of the= sip enumservice - but could consider introducing the mmtel.sip service for = "MMTEL only". I will consult with parties internally and see what = the consensus is.

As I've said previously, it is intended to use the = new ENUM result(s) in the so-called "Carrier ENUM" - a private ENU= M infrastructure for the telecommunications industry which uses the top leve= l domain of "e164enum.net" as opposed to &qu= ot;e164.arpa". Given that this is a private infrastructure, using a dif= ferent top level domain,  would this new ENUM service be appropriate fo= r a standards track or informational RFC and would it be permitted for the r= elated internet draft to refer to the private "e164enu= m.net" top level domain ?

Best Regards,
Wayne

----= -Original Message-----
From: Brian Rosen [mailto:br@brianrosen.net]
Sent: 09 March 2020 15:= 50
To: Bernie Hoeneisen <bernie@ietf.hoeneisen.ch>
Cc: Wayne Cutler <wcutler@gsma.com>; enum@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [= Enum] ENUM Query

=E2=80=9CThis email has been received from an external sou= rce =E2=80=93 please review before actioning, clicking on links, or opening attach= ments=E2=80=9D


I think adding new enumservices for both rcs and mmtel i= s a good way forward.

While we could eventually not see anyone using = the sip enumservice for messaging, it is, and will be widely used for voice = calls.

Brian

> On Mar 9, 2020, at 10:49 AM, Bernie Hoeneise= n <bernie@ietf.= hoeneisen.ch> wrote:
>
> Hi Wayne
>
> My comm= ents inline.
>
> On Mon, 9 Mar 2020, Wayne Cutler wrote:
>=
>> So, we are after a mechanism to get a SIP URI for the RCS Messa= ging Services, and these services comprise things like 1:1 Chat, File Transf= er, Geolocation Push etc.
>>
>> Regarding the differences = between RCS Messaging and im/unifmsg, I
>> would say that :-
>= ;> 1) im allows users to send and receive typically short, often textual = messages in near real-time - which sounds a lot like RCS Chat - and returns = an IM URI. So, I think that RCS is more general than im and also the need to= translate from the im URI to a SIP URI is an additional minor nuisance.
= >
>> 2) unifmsg is about having a unified (voice/video) mailbox = capability in the event of a user being unreachable. The RCS services aren't= really about the user being unreachable and so this is not really a good fi= t IMO.
>
> Thanks for clarification.
>
>> So, I t= hink the proposal to have a new Application-Based Enumservice seems reasonab= le to me. What would be the next steps? Writing an Internet Draft presumably= ?
>
> RFC 6117 defines the process in details cf.
> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%= 2F%2Ftool
> s.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Frfc6117%23sect= ion-6&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Cwcutler%40g
> sma.com%7C= 7d31d0b4992a4b0afafe08d7c4419250%7C72a4ff82fec3469daafbac827
> 6216699= %7C0%7C0%7C637193658237974160&amp;sdata=3DZhNt08ISuQHn%2FYRJUWBFo
> = HvmKS7MPI%2FI3SyUG9HWxY8%3D&amp;reserved=3D0
>
>> Regarding= the suggestion to also take a similar approach for MMTEL, I think there are= backwards compatibility issues as there are implementations already out the= re that use the Protocol-Based Enumservice "sip" for MMTEL. Theref= ore, this is something we wouldn't want to do.
>
> Not sure this= creates a new backward compatibility issue. AFAICT, using two new Enumservi= ces, new systems would be more efficient and less prone to ambiguities. And = in the long run you'd get a clean system.
>
> - for old systems = you probably need to maintain "sip" (only)
> (provision and = lookup). You may add a recommendation to at  least
> provision al= so the new Enumservices "mmtel:sip" and "rcs:sip"
>= ;  (pointing to the same as "sip"), which is easy to implemen= t.
>
> - for new systems you could specify:
>
> = ; - Lookup: use "rcs:sip" or "mmtel:sip" (with priority)= ;
>    use "sip", only if no hit with rcs or mmtel= (fallback)
>
>  - Provision: "rcs:sip" and "= ;mmtel:sip" would point to the respecive
>    services,=
>    while "sip" could be provisioned to help old= systems to find the
>    correct service, e.g. a redirectio= n service (or alike) or a system
>    that can deal with req= uests for the "wrong" (mmtel vs. rcs) service.
>
> You= could deprecate "sip" Enumservice and after a long enough transit= ion period, you may get rid of the "sip" Enumservice altogether.>
> Does this make sense for your environment?
>
> ch= eers
> Bernie
>
> ________________________________________= _______
> enum mailing list
> enum@ietf.org
> https://eur03.saf= elinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww..
> ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fenum&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Cwcutler%40g= sma
> .com%7C7d31d0b4992a4b0afafe08d7c4419250%7C72a4ff82fec3469daafbac= 827621
> 6699%7C0%7C0%7C637193658237974160&amp;sdata=3DepNTFgp51vkSO= eKW0PjJWVyHv9
> wbuvpbvHzllK1C%2B4M%3D&amp;reserved=3D0

..

.

_______________________________________________ enum mailing list enu= m@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/enum

<= /body> --B_3666944864_1680481825-- From nobody Fri Mar 13 09:01:07 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: enum@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: enum@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85C903A0D9A for ; Fri, 13 Mar 2020 09:01:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.887 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.887 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=brianrosen-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id O56LXp09P3TF for ; Fri, 13 Mar 2020 09:01:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qk1-x72b.google.com (mail-qk1-x72b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::72b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8F2A73A0D99 for ; Fri, 13 Mar 2020 09:00:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qk1-x72b.google.com with SMTP id f28so13293207qkk.13 for ; Fri, 13 Mar 2020 09:00:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=brianrosen-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=ZI4miazjBo/MfqUWHUXWAGkSSJ4yHqBSgHSynYCrVco=; b=eCfe41+VNUxN0yE06v6wCT3lT5OIU9DzAuKHNPE/a1lOGjhkgy1W5v36Yjzq8uMwSl OekKXirRpXh7eO2Ga9YrQj0a7GcznmGevWCKSqJHPixNJUpL2+3uH/vOb48hB6i1U2JV uBTgYY8kEmzkWn8NNexoT5M61WVnbr+sWfEJC5qJBVuhMITlQZ2ydwyXtiGlpuRPaBAV GcetKHAIykin1bHnS3uzj3d0iqWkPDFih9iP2Sldi/S+ixEO2GEF2OhwsyFDuyL0tjWA G6CfgL3WxPKxf/xlbMcyL+3z4+FFQrJjK8Pwcj3I+lxIDQ7f6W8FtW5ZMN/bt8Vp7Bvt GGYA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=ZI4miazjBo/MfqUWHUXWAGkSSJ4yHqBSgHSynYCrVco=; b=n83WhKV3PcGrJbJdlYWZfHEL2Z0acgsi0n8QNv5Eq7di67bp0AvhiRvU0KYVfUkDxE jPY4u4/cxSOdxaWW1mKfcV5fCDXSA6JaMzvRZGNNfRwQTzgeJ1YykSpBVpCeMWLjQ7/R UdyvK+ZsdKPwtKA+t9zhCa9gZGXKNacTYaGtFNY7uK9ppuiO/2NxqJxf0JmYbufG7uu7 bDqzLSqqxd6dcAa539G9jAvFodw+/UOa5svbM6S8/vzNxbBICGtx8oRIP2VY/CunUltx xNKr3RCUAGJmNu2P/FIwgMQG+3L/vy1kn8D4P4/X4bklOeP8IQNmoRAScwDLEAneJlkZ axOQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ANhLgQ2h9ZxfBmeETXNNYFnRf6BjjffJOlYzndE7BqGNvfAQpi7KQrUy HEBo75Pu04zws7vmMpZOhXVvC1wK00c2ButipbgPIA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADFU+vtGYLUMthhe6/HalB2MNNCsNPU7K2ot1yjL2PDp+o9SLaMqNPeOQvl5H9vjIAhWwzYFt+s/rrXIwSGr0tY0W4o= X-Received: by 2002:a37:4644:: with SMTP id t65mr12734880qka.58.1584115258391; Fri, 13 Mar 2020 09:00:58 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Brian Rosen Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2020 12:00:47 -0400 Message-ID: To: Richard Shockey Cc: Bernie Hoeneisen , Wayne Cutler , "enum@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000004292c205a0be930a" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Enum] ENUM Query X-BeenThere: enum@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Enum Discussion List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2020 16:01:06 -0000 --0000000000004292c205a0be930a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Opinions differ :) I think we want the full review that AD sponsored gets. Independent stream just gets the =E2=80=9CWe don=E2=80=99t object=E2=80=9D review. In this case I think we want the full review. On Fri, Mar 13, 2020 at 11:47 AM Richard Shockey wrote= : > > > I certainly don=E2=80=99t have a problem with the independent stream. IMH= O this is > exactly what the system was designed to do. > > > > > > =E2=80=94 > > Richard Shockey > > Shockey Consulting LLC > > Chairman of the Board SIP Forum > > www.shockey.us > > www.sipforum.org > > richardshockey.us > > Skype-Linkedin-Facebook =E2=80=93Twitter rshockey101 > > PSTN +1 703-593-2683 > > > > > > *From: *enum on behalf of Brian Rosen < > br@brianrosen.net> > *Date: *Friday, March 13, 2020 at 10:14 AM > *To: *Wayne Cutler > *Cc: *"enum@ietf.org" , Bernie Hoeneisen < > bernie@ietf.hoeneisen.ch> > *Subject: *Re: [Enum] ENUM Query > > > > Nope, you just ask one. As a practical matter, you should probably recrui= t > an experienced IETFer to help you through this. It will be much easier on > everyone. > > > > I=E2=80=99m personally not a fan of independent stream for this. It=E2=80= =99s squarely in > the IETF area of expertise and I think we want the full IETF consensus > process. > > > > But it=E2=80=99s up to you how you do it. > > > > Brian > > > > On Fri, Mar 13, 2020 at 10:10 AM Wayne Cutler wrote: > > Thanks for the response Brian. Is there a set procedure to get =E2=80=9Ca= n AD to > sponsor=E2=80=9D? > > > > Regards, > > Wayne > > > > *From:* Brian Rosen [mailto:br@brianrosen.net] > *Sent:* 13 March 2020 12:09 > *To:* Wayne Cutler > > *Cc:* Bernie Hoeneisen ; enum@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: [Enum] ENUM Query > > > > =E2=80=9CThis email has been received from an external source =E2=80=93 p= lease review > before actioning, clicking on links, or opening attachments=E2=80=9D > > > > The registry is =E2=80=9Cspecification required=E2=80=9D which allows an = Informational. I > would avoid discussing the root. You don=E2=80=99t need to do that. Just = describe > the problem and create the new enumservices. > > > > Since the work group doesn=E2=80=99t exist anymore, you need an AD to spo= nsor it. > > > > Brian > > > > On Fri, Mar 13, 2020 at 7:54 AM Wayne Cutler wrote: > > Thanks Brian & Bernie for your feedback. > > I can see that adding mmtel.sip does compliment rcs.sip and is unambiguou= s > in the service set provided by such a result. > > The current sip enumservice is currently used for MMTEL and both MMTEL & > RCS. In the former case, a number of those MNOs haven't launched RCS - an= d > therefore the sip enumservice means "all SIP-based services" or unified > communications. So, I don't think we would deprecate the use of the sip > enumservice - but could consider introducing the mmtel.sip service for > "MMTEL only". I will consult with parties internally and see what the > consensus is. > > As I've said previously, it is intended to use the new ENUM result(s) in > the so-called "Carrier ENUM" - a private ENUM infrastructure for the > telecommunications industry which uses the top level domain of " > e164enum.net > " > as opposed to "e164.arpa". Given that this is a private infrastructure, > using a different top level domain, would this new ENUM service be > appropriate for a standards track or informational RFC and would it be > permitted for the related internet draft to refer to the private " > e164enum.net > " > top level domain ? > > Best Regards, > Wayne > > -----Original Message----- > From: Brian Rosen [mailto:br@brianrosen.net] > Sent: 09 March 2020 15:50 > To: Bernie Hoeneisen > Cc: Wayne Cutler ; enum@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Enum] ENUM Query > > =E2=80=9CThis email has been received from an external source =E2=80=93 p= lease review > before actioning, clicking on links, or opening attachments=E2=80=9D > > > I think adding new enumservices for both rcs and mmtel is a good way > forward. > > While we could eventually not see anyone using the sip enumservice for > messaging, it is, and will be widely used for voice calls. > > Brian > > > On Mar 9, 2020, at 10:49 AM, Bernie Hoeneisen > wrote: > > > > Hi Wayne > > > > My comments inline. > > > > On Mon, 9 Mar 2020, Wayne Cutler wrote: > > > >> So, we are after a mechanism to get a SIP URI for the RCS Messaging > Services, and these services comprise things like 1:1 Chat, File Transfer= , > Geolocation Push etc. > >> > >> Regarding the differences between RCS Messaging and im/unifmsg, I > >> would say that :- > >> 1) im allows users to send and receive typically short, often textual > messages in near real-time - which sounds a lot like RCS Chat - and retur= ns > an IM URI. So, I think that RCS is more general than im and also the need > to translate from the im URI to a SIP URI is an additional minor nuisance= . > > > >> 2) unifmsg is about having a unified (voice/video) mailbox capability > in the event of a user being unreachable. The RCS services aren't really > about the user being unreachable and so this is not really a good fit IMO= . > > > > Thanks for clarification. > > > >> So, I think the proposal to have a new Application-Based Enumservice > seems reasonable to me. What would be the next steps? Writing an Internet > Draft presumably? > > > > RFC 6117 defines the process in details cf. > > https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftoo= l > > s.ietf.org > > %2Fhtml%2Frfc6117%23section-6&data=3D02%7C01%7Cwcutler%40g > > sma.com > > %7C7d31d0b4992a4b0afafe08d7c4419250%7C72a4ff82fec3469daafbac827 > > 6216699%7C0%7C0%7C637193658237974160&sdata=3DZhNt08ISuQHn%2FYRJUWBF= o > > HvmKS7MPI%2FI3SyUG9HWxY8%3D&reserved=3D0 > > > >> Regarding the suggestion to also take a similar approach for MMTEL, I > think there are backwards compatibility issues as there are implementatio= ns > already out there that use the Protocol-Based Enumservice "sip" for MMTEL= . > Therefore, this is something we wouldn't want to do. > > > > Not sure this creates a new backward compatibility issue. AFAICT, using > two new Enumservices, new systems would be more efficient and less prone = to > ambiguities. And in the long run you'd get a clean system. > > > > - for old systems you probably need to maintain "sip" (only) > > (provision and lookup). You may add a recommendation to at least > > provision also the new Enumservices "mmtel:sip" and "rcs:sip" > > (pointing to the same as "sip"), which is easy to implement. > > > > - for new systems you could specify: > > > > - Lookup: use "rcs:sip" or "mmtel:sip" (with priority); > > use "sip", only if no hit with rcs or mmtel (fallback) > > > > - Provision: "rcs:sip" and "mmtel:sip" would point to the respecive > > services, > > while "sip" could be provisioned to help old systems to find the > > correct service, e.g. a redirection service (or alike) or a system > > that can deal with requests for the "wrong" (mmtel vs. rcs) service. > > > > You could deprecate "sip" Enumservice and after a long enough transitio= n > period, you may get rid of the "sip" Enumservice altogether. > > > > Does this make sense for your environment? > > > > cheers > > Bernie > > > > _______________________________________________ > > enum mailing list > > enum@ietf.org > > > https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww= .. > > ietf.org > > %2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fenum&data=3D02%7C01%7Cwcutler%40gsma > > .com%7C7d31d0b4992a4b0afafe08d7c4419250%7C72a4ff82fec3469daafbac827621 > > 6699%7C0%7C0%7C637193658237974160&sdata=3DepNTFgp51vkSOeKW0PjJWVyHv= 9 > > wbuvpbvHzllK1C%2B4M%3D&reserved=3D0 > > .. > > . > > _______________________________________________ enum mailing list > enum@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/enum > --0000000000004292c205a0be930a Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Opinions differ :)

=
I think we want the full review that AD sponsored g= ets.=C2=A0 Independent stream just gets the =E2=80=9CWe don=E2=80=99t objec= t=E2=80=9D review.=C2=A0

In this case I think we want the full review.=C2=A0

On Fri, Mar 13, 20= 20 at 11:47 AM Richard Shockey <ri= chard@shockey.us> wrote:

=C2=A0

I certainly don=E2=80=99t have a problem with the independ= ent stream. IMHO this is exactly what the system was designed to do.=

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=E2=80=94=C2=A0

Richard Shockey

Shockey Consulting LLC

Chairman of the Board SI= P Forum

richard<= at>shockey.us=

Skype-Linke= din-Facebook =E2=80=93Twitter =C2=A0rshockey101

<= span style=3D"font-size:8.0pt;color:black">PSTN +1 703-593-2683

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

From: en= um <enum-boun= ces@ietf.org> on behalf of Brian Rosen <br@brianrosen.net>
Date: Fri= day, March 13, 2020 at 10:14 AM
To: Wayne Cutler <wcutler@gsma.com>
Cc= : "enum@ietf.or= g" <enum@iet= f.org>, Bernie Hoeneisen <bernie@ietf.hoeneisen.ch>
Subject: = Re: [Enum] ENUM Query

=C2=A0

Nope, y= ou just ask one. As a practical matter, you should probably recruit an expe= rienced IETFer to help you through this. It will be much easier on everyone= .=C2=A0

=C2= =A0

I=E2=80=99m personally not = a fan of independent stream for this. It=E2=80=99s squarely in the IETF are= a of expertise and I think we want the full IETF consensus process.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

<= /div>

But it=E2=80=99s up to you how you do it.<= u>

=C2=A0

=

Brian

=

=C2=A0

On Fri, Mar 13, 2020 at 10:10 AM Wayne Cutler <wcutler@gsma.com> wr= ote:

Thanks for the response Brian. Is = there a set procedure to get =E2=80=9Can AD to sponsor=E2=80=9D?

=C2=A0

Regards,

Wayne

=C2=A0

From: Brian Rosen [mailto:br@brianrosen.net]
Sent: 13 March 2020 12:09<= br>To: Wayne Cutler <wcutler@gsma.com>

Cc: Bernie Hoeneisen <bernie@ietf.hoeneisen.ch>; enum@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [E= num] ENUM Query

=

=C2=A0

=E2=80=9CThis = email has been received from an external source =E2=80=93 please review bef= ore actioning, clicking on links, or opening attachments=E2=80=9D

=C2=A0

<= /div>
<= div class=3D"m_7367979978586292173WordSection1">

The registry is =E2=80=9Cspecification = required=E2=80=9D which allows an Informational. I would avoid discussing t= he root. You don=E2=80=99t need to do that. Just describe the problem and c= reate the new enumservices.=C2=A0

=

=C2=A0

=

Since the work group= doesn=E2=80=99t exist anymore, you need an AD to sponsor it.=

=C2=A0=

Brian

=

=C2=A0

<= div>

On Fri, Mar 13, 2= 020 at 7:54 AM Wayne Cutler <wcutler@gsma.com> wrote:

<= /div>

Thanks Brian & Bernie fo= r your feedback.

I can see that adding mmtel.sip does compliment rcs= .sip and is unambiguous in the service set provided by such a result.
The current sip enumservice is currently used for MMTEL and both MMTEL &a= mp; RCS. In the former case, a number of those MNOs haven't launched RC= S - and therefore the sip enumservice means "all SIP-based services&qu= ot; or unified communications. So, I don't think we would deprecate the= use of the sip enumservice - but could consider introducing the mmtel.sip = service for "MMTEL only". I will consult with parties internally = and see what the consensus is.

As I've said previously, it is in= tended to use the new ENUM result(s) in the so-called "Carrier ENUM&qu= ot; - a private ENUM infrastructure for the telecommunications industry whi= ch uses the top level domain of "e16= 4enum.net" as opposed to "e164.arpa". Given that this is= a private infrastructure, using a different top level domain,=C2=A0 would = this new ENUM service be appropriate for a standards track or informational= RFC and would it be permitted for the related internet draft to refer to t= he private "e164enum.net" to= p level domain ?

Best Regards,
Wayne

-----Original Message= -----
From: Brian Rosen [mailto:br@brianrosen.net]
Sent: 09 March 2020 15:50
To: B= ernie Hoeneisen <bernie@ietf.hoeneisen.ch>
Cc: Wayne Cutler <wcutler@gsma.com>; enum@ietf.org
Subject: = Re: [Enum] ENUM Query

=E2=80=9CThis email has been received from an = external source =E2=80=93 please review before actioning, clicking on links= , or opening attachments=E2=80=9D


I think adding new enumservice= s for both rcs and mmtel is a good way forward.

While we could event= ually not see anyone using the sip enumservice for messaging, it is, and wi= ll be widely used for voice calls.

Brian

> On Mar 9, 2020,= at 10:49 AM, Bernie Hoeneisen <bernie@ietf.hoeneisen.ch> wrote:
>
&g= t; Hi Wayne
>
> My comments inline.
>
> On Mon, 9 M= ar 2020, Wayne Cutler wrote:
>
>> So, we are after a mechani= sm to get a SIP URI for the RCS Messaging Services, and these services comp= rise things like 1:1 Chat, File Transfer, Geolocation Push etc.
>>=
>> Regarding the differences between RCS Messaging and im/unifmsg= , I
>> would say that :-
>> 1) im allows users to send an= d receive typically short, often textual messages in near real-time - which= sounds a lot like RCS Chat - and returns an IM URI. So, I think that RCS i= s more general than im and also the need to translate from the im URI to a = SIP URI is an additional minor nuisance.
>
>> 2) unifmsg is = about having a unified (voice/video) mailbox capability in the event of a u= ser being unreachable. The RCS services aren't really about the user be= ing unreachable and so this is not really a good fit IMO.
>
> T= hanks for clarification.
>
>> So, I think the proposal to ha= ve a new Application-Based Enumservice seems reasonable to me. What would b= e the next steps? Writing an Internet Draft presumably?
>
> RFC= 6117 defines the process in details cf.
> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftool<= /a>
> s.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Frfc611= 7%23section-6&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Cwcutler%40g
> sma.com%7C7d31d0b4992a4b0afafe08d7c4419250%7C72a4ff82fec34= 69daafbac827
> 6216699%7C0%7C0%7C637193658237974160&amp;sdata=3DZ= hNt08ISuQHn%2FYRJUWBFo
> HvmKS7MPI%2FI3SyUG9HWxY8%3D&amp;reserved= =3D0
>
>> Regarding the suggestion to also take a similar ap= proach for MMTEL, I think there are backwards compatibility issues as there= are implementations already out there that use the Protocol-Based Enumserv= ice "sip" for MMTEL. Therefore, this is something we wouldn't= want to do.
>
> Not sure this creates a new backward compatibi= lity issue. AFAICT, using two new Enumservices, new systems would be more e= fficient and less prone to ambiguities. And in the long run you'd get a= clean system.
>
> - for old systems you probably need to maint= ain "sip" (only)
> (provision and lookup). You may add a re= commendation to at=C2=A0 least
> provision also the new Enumservices = "mmtel:sip" and "rcs:sip"
>=C2=A0 (pointing to th= e same as "sip"), which is easy to implement.
>
> - f= or new systems you could specify:
>
>=C2=A0 - Lookup: use "= ;rcs:sip" or "mmtel:sip" (with priority);
>=C2=A0 =C2= =A0 use "sip", only if no hit with rcs or mmtel (fallback)
>= ;
>=C2=A0 - Provision: "rcs:sip" and "mmtel:sip" = would point to the respecive
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 services,
>=C2=A0 = =C2=A0 while "sip" could be provisioned to help old systems to fi= nd the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 correct service, e.g. a redirection service (or= alike) or a system
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 that can deal with requests for th= e "wrong" (mmtel vs. rcs) service.
>
> You could depr= ecate "sip" Enumservice and after a long enough transition period= , you may get rid of the "sip" Enumservice altogether.
>> Does this make sense for your environment?
>
> cheers
= > Bernie
>
> _______________________________________________=
> enum mailing list
> enum@ietf.org

=
--0000000000004292c205a0be930a-- From nobody Fri Mar 13 09:14:24 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: enum@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: enum@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D35C23A0D4B for ; Fri, 13 Mar 2020 09:14:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.623 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.623 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, KHOP_HELO_FCRDNS=0.274, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tcCqoFWNkIgL for ; Fri, 13 Mar 2020 09:14:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shaun.rfc1035.com (smtp.v6.rfc1035.com [IPv6:2001:4b10:100:7::25]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 728CD3A0DC4 for ; Fri, 13 Mar 2020 09:14:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gromit.rfc1035.com (gromit.rfc1035.com [195.54.233.69]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by shaun.rfc1035.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 375182420C28; Fri, 13 Mar 2020 16:14:08 +0000 (UTC) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: Jim Reid In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2020 16:14:07 +0000 Cc: IETF ENUM WG Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <1E380AD3-F462-4BE0-B22E-818B1C355A3B@rfc1035.com> References: To: Brian Rosen X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Enum] ENUM Query X-BeenThere: enum@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Enum Discussion List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2020 16:14:20 -0000 > On 13 Mar 2020, at 16:00, Brian Rosen wrote: >=20 > I think we want the full review that AD sponsored gets. Independent = stream just gets the =E2=80=9CWe don=E2=80=99t object=E2=80=9D review.=20= >=20 > In this case I think we want the full review.=20 Why? Could you define =E2=80=9Cwe=E2=80=9D too? What=E2=80=99s the problem with just defining a new enumservice and = being done with it? New DNS RRtypes don=E2=80=99t need AD review and I think that should = apply to new enumservices too. From nobody Fri Mar 13 09:51:56 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: enum@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: enum@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F1093A0E09 for ; Fri, 13 Mar 2020 09:51:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.888 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.888 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=brianrosen-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id B3dNQuNAWPGw for ; Fri, 13 Mar 2020 09:51:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qv1-xf2b.google.com (mail-qv1-xf2b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::f2b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BA4073A0E05 for ; Fri, 13 Mar 2020 09:51:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qv1-xf2b.google.com with SMTP id r15so4931821qve.3 for ; Fri, 13 Mar 2020 09:51:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=brianrosen-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=h6O+PdCyv6sKqzoVgWQKurZYnP5ufV1S8sg09ZB/rvs=; b=qGo1rSH147KpcFNE9u1WRmyxUNj6PGN5wplw8d1rpS+pw9xwRf9H8V3ZTCb2/BjabY 9XTt+iA4Jk8Gnl6aUFd2PsPvvcQyJjp+eduPvaId1BpofUgPAj0uzEP2hXXK4cc3BhIT +L+FtOPyulclDv79mv8SDIkFZMNn1dRWzAdvq9dDdjhcaAM9eflFyR06O/SOOZCz3+QS VYiGbu+AvUSTB34EFgRhnpgdLfrd3yIGaSRqBTKppz7zzpaWDzpE6uP0qlMR7XtPdT1M qaXkw6ZDE0/wOwXbTt0wc4YBX4cTg0VBSx8Kl5i62V7ZpjEwGIPlcRE/ZwOTjIyasO3v UELw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=h6O+PdCyv6sKqzoVgWQKurZYnP5ufV1S8sg09ZB/rvs=; b=cHC7eB7Ad5RH+8zxUYS/UamQ7dnBQ+pkbhdEOhdH6i+HTMZsdSea/0lXYDAcZQQVEw H58O4mNz9CONHAt3+nN+P6JAkrROtSYY1EB3h/na5KCsy9YcH4+o9vGFyIzfJMsB8W1p PJZsnKt+emWLkb3vG2dWKhZlULIwn6IQG07VmISear8izF7P71tFVijzgVSkJEJxSnzg cFg1lQVVuWa5kHaXr0u8vUztzNltQ2srxK8tm65ipQUzjBOSoOSNudqISJ2y2/mbRNua gUGi1Nszd8d+NdwdEhOfUby/4IbthZxEQ6SNVEAIoFHchmmWiulK4PrrnM7KZWwOi66Z 0RfQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ANhLgQ3Es+jtqo6Qjzrd/aZJ/v1g8jzlBLXRwosKaqKTCJVzlZ+8NHk8 zHSB7P1mnNVcL/c19tJHZny/XWHY3EK7Ug== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADFU+vvbF7CNU2oeM/2pGVaoyG5PQvCTvgRAAtlQpSwAWadltHBhPb2MO4Nrsv5/oMCk5/+8HtPnNA== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6214:3c9:: with SMTP id ce9mr13324077qvb.212.1584118312584; Fri, 13 Mar 2020 09:51:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brians-mbp-2871.lan ([72.23.94.147]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id f68sm416653qtb.19.2020.03.13.09.51.51 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 13 Mar 2020 09:51:52 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.0 \(3608.40.2.2.4\)) From: Brian Rosen In-Reply-To: <1E380AD3-F462-4BE0-B22E-818B1C355A3B@rfc1035.com> Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2020 12:51:49 -0400 Cc: IETF ENUM WG Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <0482B082-5F82-47C8-BA23-41F027FDBA18@brianrosen.net> References: <1E380AD3-F462-4BE0-B22E-818B1C355A3B@rfc1035.com> To: Jim Reid X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.40.2.2.4) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Enum] ENUM Query X-BeenThere: enum@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Enum Discussion List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2020 16:51:55 -0000 Because it=E2=80=99s somewhat of a change of what we previously thought = of as an enumservice. I do think it=E2=80=99s the right thing to do, = but I would want the community to review that. =E2=80=9CWe=E2=80=9D =3D IETF. I can=E2=80=99t speak for the community, = this is just my personal opinion. =20 In the end, the IESG would decide if they object to independent stream, = assuming that it=E2=80=99s done that way. =20 Not worth a lot of argument, IMO. Brian > On Mar 13, 2020, at 12:14 PM, Jim Reid wrote: >=20 >=20 >=20 >> On 13 Mar 2020, at 16:00, Brian Rosen wrote: >>=20 >> I think we want the full review that AD sponsored gets. Independent = stream just gets the =E2=80=9CWe don=E2=80=99t object=E2=80=9D review.=20= >>=20 >> In this case I think we want the full review.=20 >=20 > Why? Could you define =E2=80=9Cwe=E2=80=9D too? >=20 > What=E2=80=99s the problem with just defining a new enumservice and = being done with it? >=20 > New DNS RRtypes don=E2=80=99t need AD review and I think that should = apply to new enumservices too. >=20 From nobody Fri Mar 13 13:21:10 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: enum@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: enum@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E93F63A0E05 for ; Fri, 13 Mar 2020 13:21:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LoB6WSbAJi0q for ; Fri, 13 Mar 2020 13:21:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from softronics.hoeneisen.ch (softronics.hoeneisen.ch [62.2.86.178]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8DB273A0DD1 for ; Fri, 13 Mar 2020 13:21:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by softronics.hoeneisen.ch with esmtp (Exim 4.86_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jCqnk-00065E-Qh; Fri, 13 Mar 2020 21:21:00 +0100 Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2020 21:21:00 +0100 (CET) From: Bernie Hoeneisen X-X-Sender: bhoeneis@softronics.hoeneisen.ch To: Brian Rosen cc: IETF ENUM WG In-Reply-To: <0482B082-5F82-47C8-BA23-41F027FDBA18@brianrosen.net> Message-ID: References: <1E380AD3-F462-4BE0-B22E-818B1C355A3B@rfc1035.com> <0482B082-5F82-47C8-BA23-41F027FDBA18@brianrosen.net> User-Agent: Alpine 2.20 (DEB 67 2015-01-07) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; BOUNDARY="37663318-1651444003-1584129119=:23158" Content-ID: X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 127.0.0.1 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: bernie@ietf.hoeneisen.ch X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on softronics.hoeneisen.ch); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Enum] ENUM Query X-BeenThere: enum@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Enum Discussion List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2020 20:21:08 -0000 This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. --37663318-1651444003-1584129119=:23158 Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Content-ID: Brian, As you likely know, I am the Designated Expert for ENUM appointed by the IESG and my tasks is to sort out questions like this. The process as defined in RFC 6117 includes community review and I will ensure this is happening. In fact my first action was to point Wayne to this list (after I was contacted by IANA acting as a relay), so that the community can engage. Which people/groups beyond the community subscribed to this ENUM list you believe are essential to engage in this case? YMMV, but I can't see a point to run this through the whole IETF process, as the know-how on ENUM beyond this list is rather limited, i.e. we gain almost nothing if we did. On the other hand, we increase the workload of many people, most having little clue on what ENUM is about. As a member of the current NomCom I learned that IESG workload related to document review is a major challenge its members, so let's not add even more to their pile, if there is little to gain. cheers, Bernie -- http://ucom.ch/ Modern Telephony Solutions and Tech Consulting for Internet Technology On Fri, 13 Mar 2020, Brian Rosen wrote: > Because it’s somewhat of a change of what we previously thought of as an > enumservice. I do think it’s the right thing to do, but I would want > the community to review that. > > “We” = IETF. I can’t speak for the community, this is just my personal > opinion. > > In the end, the IESG would decide if they object to independent stream, > assuming that it’s done that way. > > Not worth a lot of argument, IMO. > > Brian > > >> On Mar 13, 2020, at 12:14 PM, Jim Reid wrote: >> >> >> >>> On 13 Mar 2020, at 16:00, Brian Rosen wrote: >>> >>> I think we want the full review that AD sponsored gets. Independent stream just gets the “We don’t object” review. >>> >>> In this case I think we want the full review. >> >> Why? Could you define “we” too? >> >> What’s the problem with just defining a new enumservice and being done with it? >> >> New DNS RRtypes don’t need AD review and I think that should apply to new enumservices too. >> > > _______________________________________________ > enum mailing list > enum@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/enum --37663318-1651444003-1584129119=:23158-- From nobody Fri Mar 13 13:38:41 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: enum@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: enum@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7505A3A0E8C for ; Fri, 13 Mar 2020 13:38:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.119 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.119 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=0.001, SPF_NEUTRAL=0.779, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (768-bit key) header.d=shockey.us Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DBa8DWhQH6mU for ; Fri, 13 Mar 2020 13:38:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gateway31.websitewelcome.com (gateway31.websitewelcome.com [192.185.144.219]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C76CE3A0E86 for ; Fri, 13 Mar 2020 13:38:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cm10.websitewelcome.com (cm10.websitewelcome.com [100.42.49.4]) by gateway31.websitewelcome.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50DC534C35 for ; Fri, 13 Mar 2020 15:38:38 -0500 (CDT) Received: from box5527.bluehost.com ([162.241.218.19]) by cmsmtp with SMTP id Cr4ojhPHhEfyqCr4ojj0JG; Fri, 13 Mar 2020 15:38:38 -0500 X-Authority-Reason: nr=8 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=shockey.us; s=default; h=Content-transfer-encoding:Content-type:Mime-version:In-Reply-To :References:Message-ID:CC:To:From:Subject:Date:Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=8uuVMZkjnj1VR9tbwZ8EBeejOE5Po8DE0nQTAM5OF/k=; b=FhdLVRCPC+BSEhIDLhbOCOwUPs GISggOTF+U5xyPB8N0Q5GV+4iY4fuVB/baW2AjIZlfdfb5p0mNzgY5djnw7J70I+n2VBYiqEDpCgu wYo2fGhXB/htlV7t/c79ZC44O; Received: from pool-100-36-47-17.washdc.fios.verizon.net ([100.36.47.17]:53171 helo=[192.168.1.156]) by box5527.bluehost.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jCr4n-0049vi-Sj; Fri, 13 Mar 2020 14:38:37 -0600 User-Agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/16.35.20030802 Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2020 16:38:36 -0400 From: Richard Shockey To: Bernie Hoeneisen , Brian Rosen CC: IETF ENUM WG Message-ID: <8BA82A30-CE2E-4D17-8146-207D71F789E4@shockey.us> Thread-Topic: [Enum] ENUM Query References: <1E380AD3-F462-4BE0-B22E-818B1C355A3B@rfc1035.com> <0482B082-5F82-47C8-BA23-41F027FDBA18@brianrosen.net> In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - box5527.bluehost.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - shockey.us X-BWhitelist: no X-Source-IP: 100.36.47.17 X-Source-L: No X-Exim-ID: 1jCr4n-0049vi-Sj X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Source-Sender: pool-100-36-47-17.washdc.fios.verizon.net ([192.168.1.156]) [100.36.47.17]:53171 X-Source-Auth: richard+shockey.us X-Email-Count: 1 X-Source-Cap: c2hvY2tleXU7c2hvY2tleXU7Ym94NTUyNy5ibHVlaG9zdC5jb20= X-Local-Domain: yes Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Enum] ENUM Query X-BeenThere: enum@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Enum Discussion List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2020 20:38:41 -0000 +1 =20 =E2=80=94=20 Richard Shockey Shockey Consulting LLC Chairman of the Board SIP Forum www.shockey.us www.sipforum.org richardshockey.us Skype-Linkedin-Facebook =E2=80=93Twitter rshockey101 PSTN +1 703-593-2683 =20 =EF=BB=BFOn 3/13/20, 4:21 PM, "enum on behalf of Bernie Hoeneisen" wrote: Brian, =20 As you likely know, I am the Designated Expert for ENUM appointed by th= e=20 IESG and my tasks is to sort out questions like this. The process as=20 defined in RFC 6117 includes community review and I will ensure this is= =20 happening. In fact my first action was to point Wayne to this list (aft= er=20 I was contacted by IANA acting as a relay), so that the community can=20 engage. =20 Which people/groups beyond the community subscribed to this ENUM list y= ou=20 believe are essential to engage in this case? =20 YMMV, but I can't see a point to run this through the whole IETF proces= s,=20 as the know-how on ENUM beyond this list is rather limited, i.e. we gai= n=20 almost nothing if we did. On the other hand, we increase the workload o= f=20 many people, most having little clue on what ENUM is about. =20 As a member of the current NomCom I learned that IESG workload related = to=20 document review is a major challenge its members, so let's not add even= =20 more to their pile, if there is little to gain. =20 cheers, Bernie =20 =20 =20 =20 -- =20 http://ucom.ch/ Modern Telephony Solutions and Tech Consulting for Internet Technology =20 =20 On Fri, 13 Mar 2020, Brian Rosen wrote: =20 > Because it=E2=80=99s somewhat of a change of what we previously thought of = as an=20 > enumservice. I do think it=E2=80=99s the right thing to do, but I would wa= nt=20 > the community to review that. >=20 > =E2=80=9CWe=E2=80=9D =3D IETF. I can=E2=80=99t speak for the community, this is just my = personal=20 > opinion. > > In the end, the IESG would decide if they object to independent strea= m,=20 > assuming that it=E2=80=99s done that way. > > Not worth a lot of argument, IMO. > > Brian > > >> On Mar 13, 2020, at 12:14 PM, Jim Reid wrote: >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>> On 13 Mar 2020, at 16:00, Brian Rosen wrote: >>>=20 >>> I think we want the full review that AD sponsored gets. Independen= t stream just gets the =E2=80=9CWe don=E2=80=99t object=E2=80=9D review.=20 >>>=20 >>> In this case I think we want the full review.=20 >>=20 >> Why? Could you define =E2=80=9Cwe=E2=80=9D too? >>=20 >> What=E2=80=99s the problem with just defining a new enumservice and being = done with it? >>=20 >> New DNS RRtypes don=E2=80=99t need AD review and I think that should apply= to new enumservices too. >>=20 > > _______________________________________________ > enum mailing list > enum@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/enum___________________________= ____________________ enum mailing list enum@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/enum =20 From nobody Fri Mar 13 13:43:41 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: enum@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: enum@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C7343A0F2C for ; Fri, 13 Mar 2020 13:43:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.888 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.888 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=brianrosen-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cbGSWRhF_3KY for ; Fri, 13 Mar 2020 13:43:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qk1-x729.google.com (mail-qk1-x729.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::729]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 478633A0EDA for ; Fri, 13 Mar 2020 13:43:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qk1-x729.google.com with SMTP id j2so2098817qkl.7 for ; Fri, 13 Mar 2020 13:43:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=brianrosen-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=8a2GscuP55X5uF5FJNAWbWrZF0fZt0QHV2qSvZ1ycU8=; b=vTRztlpJUWQQe5YBLrSoyLRtp3u3sVlgTJOADRF4gub6r8DKRfSuiZ9qztiK3WFTYW /1umdfNtjNz0+q5/un+/ShA+XPRjpys+aHZ6YAfPy1uCFN/MoiaMw7Vxsgc/B5k4fhfE wEctjLsZbjIZGoJaq2rrdFUflZBPlC8UWXoBd4QF3GxgOFLcKiFeerYowWulkSuXmbQ5 VwEnUvaZYYK+XrRALMzuPAdelIt38EuqHFsZR3XX/vDP5OHbLCNDPXkF0ksEZXNYl+2P zrV+0GD+StF72lBJS1SvSCx0e6MZuGVX2xGQ61aTWFpfrEe/IeXuyJBc86qdaFK2Q9Hu TO/w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=8a2GscuP55X5uF5FJNAWbWrZF0fZt0QHV2qSvZ1ycU8=; b=pgdRr3KOHgv8+ipuVmZ3mzL354izFTxc5koHy44T78IZjo/LOGa5Cm26dppAdX7VHo 1PfmM76+fzLhA60i8gQAAh9NnW5ONNDLN7I+q+F+uyEiuS+WzaWsgABYJGrzWiITjePH Go/np77694N5YDj9Qvb8riUTh2XZzwgxsT26d1dHI+TDCtFrbWe5my2h7oilZpDlT0od u0DOPbZ4XGqg1NASbaGyc6AfOa9/Zl9RZqWAW/YcRU0hxmNi+CEH0P1SmkKLWWKA/HrA tkbOH50Xe1Xr8HXp7TEiUxgTPpBB5SSgQ21o0OsFWZNAFlOyACHftKPQJiEjtlhzRoIU VP1g== X-Gm-Message-State: ANhLgQ0MS+ZfrvYxRshmcI9s+2yim1xtjyjn0H/kxmmWPS/bolrh8iMQ 8juZTpq6S2qRRF8OSsTGcLofmKun/fR02Q== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADFU+vvUp7IflxA8aUsW+SdwNZ4Byxr+RyNUdyf7qJowEPHhljTY96ytrvMI/HQVXnaNMMOfCWgOOg== X-Received: by 2002:a37:6556:: with SMTP id z83mr15134119qkb.381.1584132204192; Fri, 13 Mar 2020 13:43:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brians-mbp-2871.lan ([72.23.94.147]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id f93sm15583089qtd.26.2020.03.13.13.43.23 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 13 Mar 2020 13:43:23 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.0 \(3608.40.2.2.4\)) From: Brian Rosen In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2020 16:43:16 -0400 Cc: IETF ENUM WG Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <08614A46-05A3-40DC-9C5F-A82373110277@brianrosen.net> References: <1E380AD3-F462-4BE0-B22E-818B1C355A3B@rfc1035.com> <0482B082-5F82-47C8-BA23-41F027FDBA18@brianrosen.net> To: Bernie Hoeneisen X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.40.2.2.4) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Enum] ENUM Query X-BeenThere: enum@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Enum Discussion List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2020 20:43:40 -0000 Of course, it=E2=80=99s actually up to whomever writes the document, = certainly not me, to decide how to proceed. But as I said, it doesn=E2=80=99t matter that much, so I=E2=80=99ll just = stop. Brian > On Mar 13, 2020, at 4:21 PM, Bernie Hoeneisen = wrote: >=20 > Brian, >=20 > As you likely know, I am the Designated Expert for ENUM appointed by = the IESG and my tasks is to sort out questions like this. The process as = defined in RFC 6117 includes community review and I will ensure this is = happening. In fact my first action was to point Wayne to this list = (after I was contacted by IANA acting as a relay), so that the community = can engage. >=20 > Which people/groups beyond the community subscribed to this ENUM list = you believe are essential to engage in this case? >=20 > YMMV, but I can't see a point to run this through the whole IETF = process, as the know-how on ENUM beyond this list is rather limited, = i.e. we gain almost nothing if we did. On the other hand, we increase = the workload of many people, most having little clue on what ENUM is = about. >=20 > As a member of the current NomCom I learned that IESG workload related = to document review is a major challenge its members, so let's not add = even more to their pile, if there is little to gain. >=20 > cheers, > Bernie >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > -- >=20 > http://ucom.ch/ > Modern Telephony Solutions and Tech Consulting for Internet Technology >=20 >=20 > On Fri, 13 Mar 2020, Brian Rosen wrote: >=20 >> Because it=E2=80=99s somewhat of a change of what we previously = thought of as an enumservice. I do think it=E2=80=99s the right thing = to do, but I would want the community to review that. >> =E2=80=9CWe=E2=80=9D =3D IETF. I can=E2=80=99t speak for the = community, this is just my personal opinion. >>=20 >> In the end, the IESG would decide if they object to independent = stream, assuming that it=E2=80=99s done that way. >>=20 >> Not worth a lot of argument, IMO. >>=20 >> Brian >>=20 >>=20 >>> On Mar 13, 2020, at 12:14 PM, Jim Reid wrote: >>>> On 13 Mar 2020, at 16:00, Brian Rosen wrote: >>>> I think we want the full review that AD sponsored gets. = Independent stream just gets the =E2=80=9CWe don=E2=80=99t object=E2=80=9D= review. In this case I think we want the full review.=20 >>> Why? Could you define =E2=80=9Cwe=E2=80=9D too? >>> What=E2=80=99s the problem with just defining a new enumservice and = being done with it? >>> New DNS RRtypes don=E2=80=99t need AD review and I think that should = apply to new enumservices too. >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> enum mailing list >> enum@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/enum