From brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com Sun Dec 29 17:20:20 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: internetgovtech@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: internetgovtech@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB71A1AE362 for ; Sun, 29 Dec 2013 17:20:20 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_05=-0.5, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id czK-N9i1Sa4K for ; Sun, 29 Dec 2013 17:20:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pd0-x22e.google.com (mail-pd0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c02::22e]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FBF61AE35B for ; Sun, 29 Dec 2013 17:20:19 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pd0-f174.google.com with SMTP id x10so10743496pdj.19 for ; Sun, 29 Dec 2013 17:20:13 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:organization:user-agent:mime-version:to :subject:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=6xVniq8M72lhRdx+myG0roHQ/qUffRCjiKm2jXi4kJc=; b=wphI8tIv08+Ds5CyUvLHRP17ijY9ybQ9Mnwdle8um/xkSv5uCeENtJfaSEIGKwXy+9 MAtAvgPwhYSPtqrvEiHJG+tkgQEev3GHOGAWnafTpuEruqNbtEiy+rOnfxx/voBcQelm +wCU4fwrFn9rfjTBxJhYKv6zkOZ3qXhfms8FtqhAdarxoU7HYWYw6t2kVn6C7UMp/nnZ wj90i7BWf379oB7tw/NJxsOq2LbqefDopuyuzaGB7Lan75YySa7WtcinR8mFK/mx2kD2 zlPtZSQiAew0G2Atg7cInBPNE48USjck1LkRIbySAVakbey0hGe35XVT8c0oSFA2Bh5u 1Gcg== X-Received: by 10.66.179.204 with SMTP id di12mr185563pac.155.1388366413679; Sun, 29 Dec 2013 17:20:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.178.21] (187.195.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz. [111.69.195.187]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id qv8sm77402222pbc.31.2013.12.29.17.20.12 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sun, 29 Dec 2013 17:20:12 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <52C0CA4A.7030105@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2013 14:20:10 +1300 From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: University of Auckland User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: internetgovtech@iab.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Internetgovtech] Time to be more precise about Internet Governance X-BeenThere: internetgovtech@iab.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Internet Governance and IETF technical work List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2013 01:20:21 -0000 Hi, I've been swimming in the entropy pool on the 1net list recently, and decided to write up my thoughts, which may be of interest: https://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~brian/CrossBorderInfoGovernance.pdf Regards Brian Carpenter From dogwallah@gmail.com Mon Dec 30 05:45:09 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: internetgovtech@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: internetgovtech@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E4CF1AE0B9 for ; Mon, 30 Dec 2013 05:45:09 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9jn3xx6R_Kv2 for ; Mon, 30 Dec 2013 05:45:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-bk0-x22a.google.com (mail-bk0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4008:c01::22a]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E36C41AE027 for ; Mon, 30 Dec 2013 05:45:06 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-bk0-f42.google.com with SMTP id w11so3807143bkz.29 for ; Mon, 30 Dec 2013 05:45:00 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc:content-type; bh=W9FdlfP3Nc7bIszsAwX0jJ5D/8+BLnQi+i1Fl/GQcc0=; b=FEXDUWPJdmAuR79CR0M6ef8SGdGIsUl6m+L6BADe6lVHlKapy9x5tUnSELppVXse2z ubkxQ8rn32GLoBRCehatHN0U7pJxu6qpncqr9NYklRDeSEdjXw4ywW/EQ87SVQuQFo3z dcyRzCLzHpyCwD1meDXr4UVgYvNwHAwo465roiowObjokT7x7UbEgwjL8UVAWeCqCFPM Cd9vCHlFwWfMS0a3P+pDOOLtuvbsDqrZW79LCd+OtIwDt4l3UZVZWcxDgfZhuLcGCtHi LRVYY0e6fGqFFbXSzkTPQs6zSGxwPXQI7oBsYZ0bZmTDQ7qlUizxM2Vc91gjijXkkSh6 LPeA== X-Received: by 10.204.98.205 with SMTP id r13mr89377bkn.149.1388411100374; Mon, 30 Dec 2013 05:45:00 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: dogwallah@gmail.com Received: by 10.204.66.73 with HTTP; Mon, 30 Dec 2013 05:44:20 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <52C0CA4A.7030105@gmail.com> References: <52C0CA4A.7030105@gmail.com> From: McTim Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2013 08:44:20 -0500 X-Google-Sender-Auth: _bBrQodGlQwWUkusyuIEXtKftNw Message-ID: To: Brian E Carpenter Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: internetgovtech@iab.org Subject: Re: [Internetgovtech] Time to be more precise about Internet Governance X-BeenThere: internetgovtech@iab.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Internet Governance and IETF technical work List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2013 13:45:09 -0000 Thanks Brian, Very useful indeed! rgds, McTim On Sun, Dec 29, 2013 at 8:20 PM, Brian E Carpenter wrote: > Hi, > > I've been swimming in the entropy pool on the 1net list recently, and > decided to write up my thoughts, which may be of interest: > > https://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~brian/CrossBorderInfoGovernance.pdf > > Regards > Brian Carpenter > > > _______________________________________________ > Internetgovtech mailing list > Internetgovtech@iab.org > https://www.iab.org/mailman/listinfo/internetgovtech From jefsey@jefsey.com Mon Dec 30 16:46:02 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: internetgovtech@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: internetgovtech@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A36671AE334 for ; Mon, 30 Dec 2013 16:46:02 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.297 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.297 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, MISSING_MID=0.497] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5iMexHODoop4 for ; Mon, 30 Dec 2013 16:46:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from sonic.altserver.com (sonic.altserver.com [72.34.37.74]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4985D1AE32B for ; Mon, 30 Dec 2013 16:46:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from lns-c10k03-v-62-35-238-138.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr ([62.35.238.138]:61452 helo=MORFIN-PC.jefsey.com) by sonic.altserver.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1VxnT0-00073c-Ud for internetgovtech@iab.org; Mon, 30 Dec 2013 16:45:55 -0800 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2013 01:45:52 +0100 To: internetgovtech@iab.org From: JFC Morfin In-Reply-To: <52C0CA4A.7030105@gmail.com> References: <52C0CA4A.7030105@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - sonic.altserver.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - iab.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - jefsey.com X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: sonic.altserver.com: authenticated_id: jefsey+jefsey.com/only user confirmed/virtual account not confirmed Subject: Re: [Internetgovtech] Time to be more precise about Internet Governance X-BeenThere: internetgovtech@iab.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Internet Governance and IETF technical work List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2013 00:46:02 -0000 At 02:20 30/12/2013, Brian E Carpenter wrote: >I've been swimming in the entropy pool on the 1net list recently, and >decided to write up my thoughts, which may be of interest: >https://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~brian/CrossBorderInfoGovernance.pdf As I explained on the 1net list, I can only agree with you within the very limited "1978/2013 ARPA/IETF internet" framework. The target of the Sao Paulo meeting is to enlarge that framework through "practical solutions because the world's confidence in the global Internet is injured" and therefore renew the "grounds for our work in governing the internet" ("our" no being clear defined). The US/OECD WCIT position and the incomplete OpenStand decision process (*) lead to consider possible political and technical conflicts. They may result in forks in the technical internet governance functions, no one having a technical monopoly on the internet. ICANN ICP-3 forecasts that a unique root will not last for ever. IETF is challenged over its security oriented architectural choices. Sao Paulo is to discuss a multilateral "ICANN and IANA globalization" whatever it may mean. I understand that this list is where the IETF/IAB want to prepare themselves in order to address new/critical situations, most probably through propositions of consensual/MS technical IG options/compromises. It seems that a quarter is a short period of time to consider the different risks and prepare the corresponding guide-lines to the IETF/IAB representatives/leaders. Seasons greetings. jfc (*) under the circumstances I think preferable to delay my ISOC appeal, not to prematuraly put ISOC at disavantage in showing there is no OpenStand normative process (hence a discontinuity with the internet technical community), before the premises of a new normative concordance have emerged.