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Subject: RE: [Ips] TMF text with updates
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David,

Your summary is only part of what I am suggesting.=20

I am also saying (indepedent of the above and in addition to it) that fast =

abort could be achieved by just sending TM on all connections of a single=20
session.
The need for the Async Message and the Nops dissapears.
The negotiation (of fast abbort) can be used to allert the target that it=20
will get TM on all connections (with same CmdSN but different ITTs).
The target will then know that:

there are no new data comming on other connections after the TMs
it does not have to do the lengthy StatSN check


Initiators can do this with more or less the same effect today (without=20
negotiation).
The penalty will be minimal and can be completely eliminated with the=20
negotiation.

Regards,
Julo



Black=5FDavid@emc.com=20
29/12/06 19:45

To
Julian Satran/Haifa/IBM@IBMIL
cc
<ips@ietf.org>
Subject
RE: [Ips] TMF text with updates






Julian,
=20
I'm not sure I completely understand what you wrote, but if you're
suggesting that for a TMF that affects tasks from multiple initiators:
- Fast abort (early termination of data transfers) is used for the sending
    initiator.
- The existing 3270 abort mechanism is used with other initiators, with
    the update that the TMF response does not have to wait for data=20
transfer
    completion.
I think that suggestion is reasonable, and it actually helps with the use
case that started this (3rd party initiator is dead).  The draft text=20
would
need to change to allow this (right now it mandates fast abort in all=20
cases
if the key is negotiated to support it)
=20
I'm not sure how target-scoped queues enter into this.
=20
Thanks,
--David
----------------------------------------------------=20
David L. Black, Senior Technologist=20
EMC Corporation, 176 South St., Hopkinton, MA  01748=20
+1 (508) 293-7953             FAX: +1 (508) 293-7786=20
black=5Fdavid@emc.com        Mobile: +1 (978) 394-7754=20
----------------------------------------------------=20

From: Julian Satran [mailto:Julian=5FSatran@il.ibm.com]=20
Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 6:16 AM
To: Black, David
Cc: cb=5Fmallikarjun@yahoo.com; ips@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Ips] TMF text with updates


David,=20

My point was that we can solve the TM issue only for a single initiator.=20
So besides puting the burden on SCSI to cleanly finish other and advise=20
that fast solutions really work if there are no target scoped queues there =

is little we can do. And if we limit ourselves to a single initiator the=20
multiple TM solution is a simpler (and basically does not deviate from=20
3270).  If you consider how software stacks are layered I assume that some =

clever implementers have figured that already (and did it).=20

Regards,=20
Julo=20


Black=5FDavid@emc.com=20
28/12/06 21:54=20


To
Julian Satran/Haifa/IBM@IBMIL, <cb=5Fmallikarjun@yahoo.com>=20
cc
<ips@ietf.org>=20
Subject
RE: [Ips] TMF text with updates








I agree with Julian that we should avoid discussing "buffer allocations"=20
and=20
the like, even though we know that something like that has to happen in at =


least iSER implementations.  A general discussion of "resources" works.=20
 =20
> You could achive the same effect by issuing the TM command on every=20
affected connection.=20
 =20
Not for TMF's that affect commands from other initiators.  Also, asking=20
the=20
target to coordinate receipt of the TM command on every connection in a=20
multi-connection session is also a bit much.=20
 =20
> The third party story is even more puzzling as in order to negotiate any =

of=20
> the new TM modes the taget will have to ascertain that all other=20
initiators=20
> support it. I fail to understand how would you handle downgrading the=20
mode=20
> for those that don't.=20
 =20
I think the target has to track this initiator by initiator, and not issue =

the=20
new async message to old initiators.  This increases the importance of=20
being=20
able to complete a TMF in the face of an uncooperative third party=20
"Legacy"=20
initiator.=20
 =20
> And if you don't downgrade why not state that fast-abort and target=20
scoped=20
> queues don't go together and simplify the mechanics to a multiple issue=20
TM.=20
This didn't parse for me - could you explain in more detail?=20
 =20
Thanks,=20
--David=20
----------------------------------------------------=20
David L. Black, Senior Technologist=20
EMC Corporation, 176 South St., Hopkinton, MA  01748=20
+1 (508) 293-7953             FAX: +1 (508) 293-7786=20
black=5Fdavid@emc.com        Mobile: +1 (978) 394-7754=20
----------------------------------------------------=20

From: Julian Satran [mailto:Julian=5FSatran@il.ibm.com]=20
Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2006 5:32 AM
To: Mallikarjun C.
Cc: ips@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Ips] TMF text with updates


Mallikarjun,=20

I would consider the text:=20

c. MUST leave all active "affected TTTs" (i.e. active TTTs associated with =

affected tasks) valid along with any buffer allocations for the TTTs=20
intact.=20

somewhat excessive as it relates too much to implementation. I would=20
rather say:=20

c. MUST leave all active "affected TTTs" (i.e. active TTTs associated with =

affected tasks) valid.=20

and leave the buffer issue to the implementer (as I have stated already on =

this list).=20

I also keep thinking (and mildly  objecting to) that the whole fast abort=20
is excesively complex.=20

You could achive the same effect by issuing the TM command on every=20
affected connection.=20
The third party story is even more puzzling as in order to negotiate any=20
of the nem TM modes the taget will have to ascertain that all other=20
initiators support it. I fail to understand how would you handle=20
downgrading the mode for those that don't. And if you don't downgrade why=20
not state that fast-abort and target scoped queues don't go together and=20
simplify the mechanics to a multiple issue TM.=20

Thanks,=20
Julo=20

"Mallikarjun C." <cb=5Fmallikarjun@yahoo.com>=20
28/12/06 06:41=20


To
ips@ietf.org=20
cc

Subject
[Ips] TMF text with updates










Attached is the latest text that incorporates David's proposed=20
enhancement.  Please review and comment.  Note especially two things: new=20
section 4.1.4 that summarizes generic implementation considerations for=20
both "clarified" and "updated" semantics, the changed text in 4.1.2 that=20
says "MAY wait for ....target transfer tags.....from third-party=20
initiators" from the previous blanket MUST.

Mallikarjun



4.1.2 Clarified multi-task abort semantics
All iSCSI implementations MUST support the protocol behavior defined in=20
this section as the default behavior.  The execution of ABORT TASK SET,=20
CLEAR TASK SET, LOGICAL UNIT RESET, TARGET WARM RESET, and TARGET COLD=20
RESET TMF Requests consists of the following sequence of actions in the=20
specified order on the specified party.=20
The initiator iSCSI layer:
a. MUST continue to respond to each TTT received for the affected tasks.=20
b. Should receive any responses that the target may provide for some tasks =

among the affected tasks (may process them as usual because they are=20
guaranteed to have chronologically originated prior to the TMF response).=20
c. Should receive the TMF Response concluding all the tasks in the set of=20
affected tasks.=20

The target iSCSI layer:
a. MUST wait for currently valid target transfer tags of the affected=20
tasks from the issuing initiator to be responded to.  MAY wait for=20
responses on currently valid target transfer tags of the affected tasks=20
from third-party initiators.
b. MUST wait (concurrent with the wait in Step.a) for all commands of the=20
affected tasks to be received based on the CmdSN ordering.   SHOULD NOT=20
wait for new commands on third-party affected sessions - only the=20
instantiated tasks have to be considered for the purpose of determining=20
the affected tasks.  In the case of target-scoped requests (i.e. TARGET=20
WARM RESET and TARGET COLD RESET), all the commands that are not yet=20
received on the issuing session in the command stream however can be=20
considered to have been received with no command waiting period - i.e. the =

entire CmdSN space up to the CmdSN of the task management function can be=20
"plugged".
c. MUST propagate the TMF request to and receive the response from the=20
target SCSI layer.=20
d. MUST address the Response Fence flag on the TMF Response on issuing=20
session as defined in 3.3.2.
e. MUST address the Response Fence flag on the first post-TMF Response on=20
third-party sessions as defined in 3.3.2.  If some tasks originate from=20
non-iSCSI I=5FT=5FL nexuses then the means by which the target ensures that=
=20
all affected tasks have returned their status to the initiator are defined =

by the specific non-iSCSI transport protocol(s).
Implementation note: Technically, the TMF servicing is complete in Step.d. =

 Data transfers corresponding to terminated tasks may however still be in=20
progress on third-party iSCSI sessiosn even at the end of Step.e.  TMF=20
Response MUST NOT be sent by the target iSCSI layer before the end of=20
Step.d, and MAY be sent at the end of Step.d despite these outstanding=20
Data transfers until after Step.e.

4.1.3 Updated multi-task abort semantics
Protocol behavior defined in this section MUST be implemented by all iSCSI =

implementations complying with this document.  Protocol behavior defined=20
in this section MUST be exhibited by iSCSI implementations on an iSCSI=20
session when they negotiate the TaskReporting (section 9.1) key to=20
?FastAbort? on that session.  The execution of ABORT TASK SET, CLEAR TASK=20
SET, LOGICAL UNIT RESET, TARGET WARM RESET, and TARGET COLD RESET TMF=20
Requests consists of the following sequence of actions in the specified=20
order on the specified party.=20
The initiator iSCSI layer:
a. MUST NOT send any more Data-Out PDUs for affected tasks on the issuing=20
connection of the issuing iSCSI session once the TMF is sent to the=20
target.
b. Should receive any responses that the target may provide for some tasks =

among the affected tasks (may process them as usual because they are=20
guaranteed to have chronologically originated prior to the TMF response).
c. MUST respond to Async Message PDU with AsyncEvent=3D5 as defined in=20
section 8.1.
d. Should receive the TMF Response concluding all the tasks in the set of=20
affected tasks.

The target iSCSI layer:
a. MUST wait for all commands of the affected tasks to be received based=20
on the CmdSN ordering on the issuing session.  SHOULD NOT wait for new=20
commands on third-party affected sessions - only the instantiated tasks=20
have to be considered for the purpose of determining the affected tasks.=20
In the case of target-scoped requests (i.e. TARGET WARM RESET and TARGET=20
COLD RESET), all the commands that are not yet received on the issuing=20
session in the command stream however can be considered to have been=20
received with no command waiting period - i.e. the entire CmdSN space up=20
to the CmdSN of the task management function can be "plugged".
b. MUST propagate the TMF request to and receive the response from the=20
target SCSI layer.=20
c. MUST leave all active "affected TTTs" (i.e. active TTTs associated with =

affected tasks) valid along with any buffer allocations for the TTTs=20
intact.
d. MUST generate an Asynchronous Message PDU with AsyncEvent=3D5 (section=20
8.1) on:
i) each connection of each third-party session that at least one affected=20
task is allegiant to, and
ii) each connection except the issuing connection of the issuing session=20
that has at least one allegiant affected task.
If there are multiple affected LUs (say due to a target reset), then one=20
Async Message PDU MUST be sent for each such LU on each connection that=20
has at least one allegiant affected task.
e. MUST address the Response Fence flag on the TMF Response on issuing=20
session as defined in 3.3.2.
f. MUST address the Response Fence flag on the first post-TMF Response on=20
third-party sessions as defined in 3.3.2. If some tasks originate from=20
non-iSCSI I=5FT=5FL nexuses then the means by which the target ensures that=
=20
all affected tasks have returned their status to the initiator are defined =

by the specific non-iSCSI transport protocol(s).
g. MUST free up the affected TTTs (and STags, if applicable) and the=20
corresponding buffers once it receives the associated Nop-Out=20
acknowledgement that the initiator generated in response to the Async=20
Message.=20
Implementation note: Technically, the TMF servicing is complete in Step.e. =

 Data transfers corresponding to terminated tasks may however still be in=20
progress even at the end of Step.f.  TMF Response MUST NOT be sent by the=20
target iSCSI layer before the end of Step.e, and MAY be sent at the end of =

Step.e despite these outstanding Data transfers until Step.g.  Step.g=20
specifies an event to free up any such resources that may have been=20
reserved to support outstanding data transfers.=20
4.1.3.1 Clearing effects update
Appendix F.1 of [RFC3720] specifies the clearing effects of target and LU=20
resets on ?Incomplete TTTs? as ?Y?.  This meant that a target warm reset=20
or a target cold reset or an LU reset would clear the active TTTs upon=20
completion.  The TaskReporting=3DFastAbort (section 9.1) semantics defined =

by this section however do not guarantee that the active TTTs are cleared=20
by the end of the reset operations.  In fact, the new semantics are=20
designed to allow clearing the TTTs in a ?lazy? fashion after the TMF=20
Response is delivered.  Thus, when TaskReporting=3DFastAbort is operational=
=20
on a session, the clearing effects of reset operations on ?Incomplete=20
TTTs? is ?N?.=20
4.1.4 Implementation considerations
Both in clarified semantics (section 4.1.2) and updated semantics (section =

4.1.3), there may be outstanding data transfers even after the TMF=20
completion is reported on the issuing session.  In the case of iSCSI/iSER=20
[iSER], these would be tagged data transfers for STags not owned by any=20
active tasks.  Whether or not real buffers support these data transfers is =

implementation-dependent.  However, the data transfers logically MUST be=20
silently discarded by the target iSCSI layer in all cases.  A target MAY,=20
on an implementation-defined internal timeout, also choose to drop the=20
connections on which it did not receive the expected Data-out sequences=20
(section 4.1.2) or Nop-Out acknowledgements (section 4.1.3) so as to=20
reclaim the associated buffer, STag and TTT resources as appropriate.


----- Original Message ----
From: "Black=5FDavid@emc.com" <Black=5FDavid@emc.com>
To: Black=5FDavid@emc.com; cb=5Fmallikarjun@yahoo.com; ips@ietf.org
Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2006 2:33:43 PM
Subject: RE: [Ips] Implementer's Guide - Task Management Issue


> Let's try this line of reasoning - the target issues the Nop-Out, now
when
> can it free the resources?  Answer:
>     - The Nop-In response comes back, OR
>     - The connection times out and is torn down.
> Now, what if the Nop-Out is not issued - what does the target wait for
to
> free the resources?  Answer:
>     - The transfers complete, OR
>     - The connection times out and is torn down.=20
> Those look similar enough at the target (the worst case is the same -
the
> resources are tied up until an uncooperative initiator times out) that
> I don't see the harm in allowing the early TMF return without the new
> key.  The clear distinction is that the first two bullets are
different;
> if the new key is not negotiated, the target has to wait for the
transfers
> to complete; the new key and the Nop-Out are necessary to walk away
earlier
> when the initiator involved is able to continue the transfers.

That got slightly twisted - what it should have talked about was the
target
issuing the new Async Message and the Nop-Out response coming back.

Thanks,
--David
----------------------------------------------------
David L. Black, Senior Technologist
EMC Corporation, 176 South St., Hopkinton, MA  01748
+1 (508) 293-7953             FAX: +1 (508) 293-7786
black=5Fdavid@emc.com        Mobile: +1 (978) 394-7754
----------------------------------------------------

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<br><font size=3D2 face=3D"sans-serif">David,</font>
<br>
<br><font size=3D2 face=3D"sans-serif">Your summary is only part of what I
am suggesting. </font>
<br>
<br><font size=3D2 face=3D"sans-serif">I am also saying (indepedent of the
above and in addition to it) that fast abort could be achieved by just
sending TM on all connections of a single session.</font>
<br><font size=3D2 face=3D"sans-serif">The need for the Async Message and t=
he
Nops dissapears.</font>
<br><font size=3D2 face=3D"sans-serif">The negotiation (of fast abbort) can
be used to allert the target that it will get TM on all connections (with
same CmdSN but different ITTs).</font>
<br><font size=3D2 face=3D"sans-serif">The target will then know that:</fon=
t>
<br>
<ul>
<li><font size=3D2 face=3D"sans-serif">there are no new data comming on oth=
er
connections after the TMs</font>
<li><font size=3D2 face=3D"sans-serif">it does not have to do the lengthy S=
tatSN
check</font></ul>
<br>
<br><font size=3D2 face=3D"sans-serif">Initiators can do this with more or
less the same effect today (without negotiation).</font>
<br><font size=3D2 face=3D"sans-serif">The penalty will be minimal and can
be completely eliminated with the negotiation.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=3D2 face=3D"sans-serif">Regards,</font>
<br><font size=3D2 face=3D"sans-serif">Julo</font>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<table width=3D100%>
<tr valign=3Dtop>
<td width=3D40%><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif"><b>Black=5FDavid@emc.com=
</b>
</font>
<p><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif">29/12/06 19:45</font>
<td width=3D59%>
<table width=3D100%>
<tr valign=3Dtop>
<td>
<div align=3Dright><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif">To</font></div>
<td><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif">Julian Satran/Haifa/IBM@IBMIL</font>
<tr valign=3Dtop>
<td>
<div align=3Dright><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif">cc</font></div>
<td><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif">&lt;ips@ietf.org&gt;</font>
<tr valign=3Dtop>
<td>
<div align=3Dright><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif">Subject</font></div>
<td><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif">RE: [Ips] TMF text with updates</fon=
t></table>
<br>
<table>
<tr valign=3Dtop>
<td>
<td></table>
<br></table>
<br>
<br>
<br><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New">Julian,</font>
<br><font size=3D3>&nbsp;</font>
<br><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New">I'm not sure I completely understand
what you wrote, but if you're</font>
<br><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New">suggesting that for a TMF that affe=
cts
tasks from multiple initiators:</font>
<br><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New">- Fast abort (early termination of
data transfers) is used for the sending</font>
<br><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New">&nbsp; &nbsp; initiator.</font>
<br><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New">- The existing 3270 abort mechanism
is used with other initiators, with</font>
<br><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New">&nbsp; &nbsp; the update that the T=
MF
response does not have to wait for data transfer</font>
<br><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New">&nbsp; &nbsp; completion.</font>
<br><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New">I think that suggestion is reasonab=
le,
and it actually helps with the use</font>
<br><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New">case that started this (3rd party i=
nitiator
is dead). &nbsp;The draft text would</font>
<br><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New">need to change to allow this (right
now it mandates fast abort in all cases</font>
<br><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New">if the key is negotiated to support
it)</font>
<br><font size=3D3>&nbsp;</font>
<br><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New">I'm not sure how target-scoped queu=
es
enter into this.</font>
<br><font size=3D3>&nbsp;</font>
<br><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New">Thanks,</font>
<br><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New">--David</font>
<br><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New">-----------------------------------=
-----------------
<br>
David L. Black, Senior Technologist <br>
EMC Corporation, 176 South St., Hopkinton, MA &nbsp;01748 <br>
+1 (508) 293-7953 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; FAX: +1 (508)
293-7786 <br>
black=5Fdavid@emc.com &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Mobile: +1 (978) 394-7754
<br>
---------------------------------------------------- </font>
<br>
<br>
<hr><font size=3D2 face=3D"Tahoma"><b>From:</b> Julian Satran [mailto:Julia=
n=5FSatran@il.ibm.com]
<b><br>
Sent:</b> Friday, December 29, 2006 6:16 AM<b><br>
To:</b> Black, David<b><br>
Cc:</b> cb=5Fmallikarjun@yahoo.com; ips@ietf.org<b><br>
Subject:</b> RE: [Ips] TMF text with updates</font><font size=3D3><br>
</font>
<br><font size=3D2 face=3D"sans-serif"><br>
David,</font><font size=3D3> <br>
</font><font size=3D2 face=3D"sans-serif"><br>
My point was that we can solve the TM issue only for a single initiator.
So besides puting the burden on SCSI to cleanly finish other and advise
that fast solutions really work if there are no target scoped queues there
is little we can do. And if we limit ourselves to a single initiator the
multiple TM solution is a simpler (and basically does not deviate from
3270). &nbsp;If you consider how software stacks are layered I assume that
some clever implementers have figured that already (and did it).</font><fon=
t size=3D3>
<br>
</font><font size=3D2 face=3D"sans-serif"><br>
Regards,</font><font size=3D3> </font><font size=3D2 face=3D"sans-serif"><b=
r>
Julo</font><font size=3D3> <br>
<br>
</font>
<table width=3D100%>
<tr valign=3Dtop>
<td width=3D28%><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif"><b>Black=5FDavid@emc.com=
</b>
</font>
<p><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif">28/12/06 21:54</font><font size=3D3> =
</font>
<td width=3D71%>
<br>
<table width=3D100%>
<tr valign=3Dtop>
<td width=3D11%>
<div align=3Dright><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif">To</font></div>
<td width=3D88%><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif">Julian Satran/Haifa/IBM@=
IBMIL,
&lt;cb=5Fmallikarjun@yahoo.com&gt;</font><font size=3D3> </font>
<tr valign=3Dtop>
<td>
<div align=3Dright><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif">cc</font></div>
<td><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif">&lt;ips@ietf.org&gt;</font><font siz=
e=3D3>
</font>
<tr valign=3Dtop>
<td>
<div align=3Dright><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif">Subject</font></div>
<td><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif">RE: [Ips] TMF text with updates</fon=
t></table>
<br>
<br>
<table>
<tr valign=3Dtop>
<td>
<td></table>
<br></table>
<br><font size=3D3><br>
<br>
</font><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><br>
I agree with Julian that we should avoid discussing &quot;buffer allocation=
s&quot;
and</font><font size=3D3> </font><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><br>
the like, even though we know that something like that has to happen in
at</font><font size=3D3> </font><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><br>
least iSER implementations. &nbsp;A general discussion of &quot;resources&q=
uot;
works.</font><font size=3D3> <br>
 &nbsp;</font><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><br>
&gt; You could achive the same effect by issuing the TM command on every
affected connection.</font><font size=3D3> <br>
 &nbsp;</font><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><br>
Not for TMF's that affect commands from other initiators. &nbsp;Also, asking
the</font><font size=3D3> </font><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><br>
target to coordinate receipt of the TM command on every connection in a</fo=
nt><font size=3D3>
</font><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><br>
multi-connection session is also a bit much.</font><font size=3D3> <br>
 &nbsp;</font><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><br>
&gt; The third party story is even more puzzling as in order to negotiate
any of</font><font size=3D3> </font><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><br>
&gt; the new TM modes the taget will have to ascertain that all other initi=
ators</font><font size=3D3>
</font><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><br>
&gt; support it. I fail to understand how would you handle downgrading
the mode</font><font size=3D3> </font><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><=
br>
&gt; for those that don't.</font><font size=3D3> <br>
 &nbsp;</font><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><br>
I think the target has to track this initiator by initiator, and not issue
the</font><font size=3D3> </font><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><br>
new async message to old initiators. &nbsp;This increases the importance
of being</font><font size=3D3> </font><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><=
br>
able to complete a TMF in the face of an uncooperative third party &quot;Le=
gacy&quot;</font><font size=3D3>
</font><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><br>
initiator.</font><font size=3D3> <br>
 &nbsp;</font><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><br>
&gt; And if you don't downgrade why not state that fast-abort and target
scoped</font><font size=3D3> </font><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><br>
&gt; queues don't go together and simplify the mechanics to a multiple
issue TM.</font><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"> </font><font size=
=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><br>
This didn't parse for me - could you explain in more detail?</font><font si=
ze=3D3>
<br>
 &nbsp;</font><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><br>
Thanks,</font><font size=3D3> </font><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><b=
r>
--David</font><font size=3D3> </font>
<p><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New">------------------------------------=
----------------</font><font size=3D3>
</font><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><br>
David L. Black, Senior Technologist</font><font size=3D3> </font><font size=
=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><br>
EMC Corporation, 176 South St., Hopkinton, MA &nbsp;01748</font><font size=
=3D3>
</font><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><br>
+1 (508) 293-7953 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; FAX: +1 (508)
293-7786</font><font size=3D3> </font><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><=
br>
black=5Fdavid@emc.com &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Mobile: +1 (978) 394-7754<=
/font><font size=3D3>
</font><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><br>
----------------------------------------------------</font><font size=3D3>
</font>
<p><font size=3D3><br>
</font>
<hr><font size=3D2 face=3D"Tahoma"><b>From:</b> Julian Satran [mailto:Julia=
n=5FSatran@il.ibm.com]
<b><br>
Sent:</b> Thursday, December 28, 2006 5:32 AM<b><br>
To:</b> Mallikarjun C.<b><br>
Cc:</b> ips@ietf.org<b><br>
Subject:</b> Re: [Ips] TMF text with updates</font><font size=3D3><br>
</font><font size=3D2 face=3D"sans-serif"><br>
<br>
Mallikarjun,</font><font size=3D3> </font><font size=3D2 face=3D"sans-serif=
"><br>
<br>
I would consider the text:</font><font size=3D3> </font><tt><font size=3D2>=
<br>
<br>
c. MUST leave all active &quot;affected TTTs&quot; (i.e. active TTTs associ=
ated
with affected tasks) valid along with any buffer allocations for the TTTs
intact.</font></tt><font size=3D3> </font><font size=3D2 face=3D"sans-serif=
"><br>
<br>
somewhat excessive as it relates too much to implementation. I would rather
say:</font><font size=3D3> </font><tt><font size=3D2><br>
<br>
c. MUST leave all active &quot;affected TTTs&quot; (i.e. active TTTs associ=
ated
with affected tasks) valid.</font></tt><font size=3D3> </font><tt><font siz=
e=3D2><br>
<br>
and leave the buffer issue to the implementer (as I have stated already
on this list).</font></tt><font size=3D3> </font><tt><font size=3D2><br>
<br>
I also keep thinking (and mildly &nbsp;objecting to) that the whole fast
abort is excesively complex.</font></tt><font size=3D3> </font><tt><font si=
ze=3D2><br>
<br>
You could achive the same effect by issuing the TM command on every affected
connection.</font></tt><font size=3D3> </font><tt><font size=3D2><br>
The third party story is even more puzzling as in order to negotiate any
of the nem TM modes the taget will have to ascertain that all other initiat=
ors
support it. I fail to understand how would you handle downgrading the mode
for those that don't. And if you don't downgrade why not state that fast-ab=
ort
and target scoped queues don't go together and simplify the mechanics to
a multiple issue TM.</font></tt><font size=3D3> </font><tt><font size=3D2><=
br>
<br>
Thanks,</font></tt><font size=3D3> </font><tt><font size=3D2><br>
Julo</font></tt><font size=3D3> <br>
</font>
<table width=3D100%>
<tr valign=3Dtop>
<td width=3D60%><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif"><b>&quot;Mallikarjun C.&=
quot;
&lt;cb=5Fmallikarjun@yahoo.com&gt;</b> </font>
<p><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif">28/12/06 06:41</font><font size=3D3> =
</font>
<td width=3D39%>
<br>
<table width=3D100%>
<tr valign=3Dtop>
<td width=3D22%>
<div align=3Dright><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif">To</font></div>
<td width=3D77%><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif">ips@ietf.org</font><font=
 size=3D3>
</font>
<tr valign=3Dtop>
<td>
<div align=3Dright><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif">cc</font></div>
<td>
<tr valign=3Dtop>
<td>
<div align=3Dright><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif">Subject</font></div>
<td><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif">[Ips] TMF text with updates</font></=
table>
<br><font size=3D3><br>
</font>
<br>
<table>
<tr valign=3Dtop>
<td>
<td></table>
<br></table>
<br><font size=3D3><br>
<br>
</font><tt><font size=3D2><br>
<br>
Attached is the latest text that incorporates David's proposed enhancement.
&nbsp;Please review and comment. &nbsp;Note especially two things: new
section 4.1.4 that summarizes generic implementation considerations for
both &quot;clarified&quot; and &quot;updated&quot; semantics, the changed
text in 4.1.2 that says &quot;MAY wait for ....target transfer tags.....from
third-party initiators&quot; from the previous blanket MUST.<br>
<br>
Mallikarjun<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
4.1.2 Clarified multi-task abort semantics<br>
All iSCSI implementations MUST support the protocol behavior defined in
this section as the default behavior. &nbsp;The execution of ABORT TASK
SET, CLEAR TASK SET, LOGICAL UNIT RESET, TARGET WARM RESET, and TARGET
COLD RESET TMF Requests consists of the following sequence of actions in
the specified order on the specified party. <br>
The initiator iSCSI layer:<br>
a. MUST continue to respond to each TTT received for the affected tasks.
<br>
b. Should receive any responses that the target may provide for some tasks
among the affected tasks (may process them as usual because they are guaran=
teed
to have chronologically originated prior to the TMF response). <br>
c. Should receive the TMF Response concluding all the tasks in the set
of affected tasks. <br>
<br>
The target iSCSI layer:<br>
a. MUST wait for currently valid target transfer tags of the affected tasks
from the issuing initiator to be responded to. &nbsp;MAY wait for responses
on currently valid target transfer tags of the affected tasks from third-pa=
rty
initiators.<br>
b. MUST wait (concurrent with the wait in Step.a) for all commands of the
affected tasks to be received based on the CmdSN ordering. &nbsp; SHOULD
NOT wait for new commands on third-party affected sessions - only the insta=
ntiated
tasks have to be considered for the purpose of determining the affected
tasks. &nbsp;In the case of target-scoped requests (i.e. TARGET WARM RESET
and TARGET COLD RESET), all the commands that are not yet received on the
issuing session in the command stream however can be considered to have
been received with no command waiting period - i.e. the entire CmdSN space
up to the CmdSN of the task management function can be &quot;plugged&quot;.=
<br>
c. MUST propagate the TMF request to and receive the response from the
target SCSI layer. <br>
d. MUST address the Response Fence flag on the TMF Response on issuing
session as defined in 3.3.2.<br>
e. MUST address the Response Fence flag on the first post-TMF Response
on third-party sessions as defined in 3.3.2. &nbsp;If some tasks originate
from non-iSCSI I=5FT=5FL nexuses then the means by which the target ensures
that all affected tasks have returned their status to the initiator are
defined by the specific non-iSCSI transport protocol(s).<br>
Implementation note: Technically, the TMF servicing is complete in Step.d.
&nbsp;Data transfers corresponding to terminated tasks may however still
be in progress on third-party iSCSI sessiosn even at the end of Step.e.
&nbsp;TMF Response MUST NOT be sent by the target iSCSI layer before the
end of Step.d, and MAY be sent at the end of Step.d despite these outstandi=
ng
Data transfers until after Step.e.<br>
<br>
4.1.3 Updated multi-task abort semantics<br>
Protocol behavior defined in this section MUST be implemented by all iSCSI
implementations complying with this document. &nbsp;Protocol behavior defin=
ed
in this section MUST be exhibited by iSCSI implementations on an iSCSI
session when they negotiate the TaskReporting (section 9.1) key to &#8220;F=
astAbort&#8221;
on that session. &nbsp;The execution of ABORT TASK SET, CLEAR TASK SET,
LOGICAL UNIT RESET, TARGET WARM RESET, and TARGET COLD RESET TMF Requests
consists of the following sequence of actions in the specified order on
the specified party. <br>
The initiator iSCSI layer:<br>
a. MUST NOT send any more Data-Out PDUs for affected tasks on the issuing
connection of the issuing iSCSI session once the TMF is sent to the target.=
<br>
b. Should receive any responses that the target may provide for some tasks
among the affected tasks (may process them as usual because they are guaran=
teed
to have chronologically originated prior to the TMF response).<br>
c. MUST respond to Async Message PDU with AsyncEvent=3D5 as defined in sect=
ion
8.1.<br>
d. Should receive the TMF Response concluding all the tasks in the set
of affected tasks.<br>
<br>
The target iSCSI layer:<br>
a. MUST wait for all commands of the affected tasks to be received based
on the CmdSN ordering on the issuing session. &nbsp;SHOULD NOT wait for
new commands on third-party affected sessions - only the instantiated tasks
have to be considered for the purpose of determining the affected tasks.
&nbsp;In the case of target-scoped requests (i.e. TARGET WARM RESET and
TARGET COLD RESET), all the commands that are not yet received on the issui=
ng
session in the command stream however can be considered to have been receiv=
ed
with no command waiting period - i.e. the entire CmdSN space up to the
CmdSN of the task management function can be &quot;plugged&quot;.<br>
b. MUST propagate the TMF request to and receive the response from the
target SCSI layer. <br>
c. MUST leave all active &quot;affected TTTs&quot; (i.e. active TTTs associ=
ated
with affected tasks) valid along with any buffer allocations for the TTTs
intact.<br>
d. MUST generate an Asynchronous Message PDU with AsyncEvent=3D5 (section
8.1) on:<br>
i) each connection of each third-party session that at least one affected
task is allegiant to, and<br>
ii) each connection except the issuing connection of the issuing session
that has at least one allegiant affected task.<br>
If there are multiple affected LUs (say due to a target reset), then one
Async Message PDU MUST be sent for each such LU on each connection that
has at least one allegiant affected task.<br>
e. MUST address the Response Fence flag on the TMF Response on issuing
session as defined in 3.3.2.<br>
f. MUST address the Response Fence flag on the first post-TMF Response
on third-party sessions as defined in 3.3.2. If some tasks originate from
non-iSCSI I=5FT=5FL nexuses then the means by which the target ensures that
all affected tasks have returned their status to the initiator are defined
by the specific non-iSCSI transport protocol(s).<br>
g. MUST free up the affected TTTs (and STags, if applicable) and the corres=
ponding
buffers once it receives the associated Nop-Out acknowledgement that the
initiator generated in response to the Async Message. &nbsp;<br>
Implementation note: Technically, the TMF servicing is complete in Step.e.
&nbsp;Data transfers corresponding to terminated tasks may however still
be in progress even at the end of Step.f. &nbsp;TMF Response MUST NOT be
sent by the target iSCSI layer before the end of Step.e, and MAY be sent
at the end of Step.e despite these outstanding Data transfers until Step.g.
&nbsp;Step.g specifies an event to free up any such resources that may
have been reserved to support outstanding data transfers. &nbsp;<br>
4.1.3.1 Clearing effects update<br>
Appendix F.1 of [RFC3720] specifies the clearing effects of target and
LU resets on &#8220;Incomplete TTTs&#8221; as &#8220;Y&#8221;. &nbsp;This m=
eant that a target
warm reset or a target cold reset or an LU reset would clear the active
TTTs upon completion. &nbsp;The TaskReporting=3DFastAbort (section 9.1) sem=
antics
defined by this section however do not guarantee that the active TTTs are
cleared by the end of the reset operations. &nbsp;In fact, the new semantics
are designed to allow clearing the TTTs in a &#8220;lazy&#8221; fashion aft=
er the
TMF Response is delivered. &nbsp;Thus, when TaskReporting=3DFastAbort is
operational on a session, the clearing effects of reset operations on &#822=
0;Incomplete
TTTs&#8221; is &#8220;N&#8221;. &nbsp;<br>
4.1.4 Implementation considerations<br>
Both in clarified semantics (section 4.1.2) and updated semantics (section
4.1.3), there may be outstanding data transfers even after the TMF completi=
on
is reported on the issuing session. &nbsp;In the case of iSCSI/iSER [iSER],
these would be tagged data transfers for STags not owned by any active
tasks. &nbsp;Whether or not real buffers support these data transfers is
implementation-dependent. &nbsp;However, the data transfers logically MUST
be silently discarded by the target iSCSI layer in all cases. &nbsp;A target
MAY, on an implementation-defined internal timeout, also choose to drop
the connections on which it did not receive the expected Data-out sequences
(section 4.1.2) or Nop-Out acknowledgements (section 4.1.3) so as to reclaim
the associated buffer, STag and TTT resources as appropriate.<br>
<br>
<br>
----- Original Message ----<br>
From: &quot;Black=5FDavid@emc.com&quot; &lt;Black=5FDavid@emc.com&gt;<br>
To: Black=5FDavid@emc.com; cb=5Fmallikarjun@yahoo.com; ips@ietf.org<br>
Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2006 2:33:43 PM<br>
Subject: RE: [Ips] Implementer's Guide - Task Management Issue<br>
<br>
<br>
&gt; Let's try this line of reasoning - the target issues the Nop-Out,
now<br>
when<br>
&gt; can it free the resources? &nbsp;Answer:<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; - The Nop-In response comes back, OR<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; - The connection times out and is torn down.<br>
&gt; Now, what if the Nop-Out is not issued - what does the target wait
for<br>
to<br>
&gt; free the resources? &nbsp;Answer:<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; - The transfers complete, OR<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; - The connection times out and is torn down. <br>
&gt; Those look similar enough at the target (the worst case is the same
-<br>
the<br>
&gt; resources are tied up until an uncooperative initiator times out)
that<br>
&gt; I don't see the harm in allowing the early TMF return without the
new<br>
&gt; key. &nbsp;The clear distinction is that the first two bullets are<br>
different;<br>
&gt; if the new key is not negotiated, the target has to wait for the<br>
transfers<br>
&gt; to complete; the new key and the Nop-Out are necessary to walk away<br>
earlier<br>
&gt; when the initiator involved is able to continue the transfers.<br>
<br>
That got slightly twisted - what it should have talked about was the<br>
target<br>
issuing the new Async Message and the Nop-Out response coming back.<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
--David<br>
----------------------------------------------------<br>
David L. Black, Senior Technologist<br>
EMC Corporation, 176 South St., Hopkinton, MA &nbsp;01748<br>
+1 (508) 293-7953 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; FAX: +1 (508)
293-7786<br>
black=5Fdavid@emc.com &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Mobile: +1 (978) 394-7754<=
br>
----------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=
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In-Reply-To: <20061229214209.44955.qmail@web51906.mail.yahoo.com>
To: "Mallikarjun C." <cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com>
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Subject: Re: [Ips] TMF text with updates
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From: Julian Satran <Julian_Satran@il.ibm.com>
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Mallikarjun,
My reading was slightly different as bellow

"Mallikarjun C." <cb=5Fmallikarjun@yahoo.com> wrote on 29/12/2006 23:42:09:

> David and Julian,
>=20
> Just to be clear on the semantics:
>=20
> "Fast abort" =3D early reporting of TMF completion despite=20
outstandingtransfers
>=20
> RFC 3720          Not allowed for issuing session, Not allowed for=20
> third-party sessions
>=20
RFC3270 pays only lip-service to third party sessions (there is little you =

can do beside it.

> IG (Last Call):=20
> FastMultiTaskAbort !=3DYes
>                            Same as RFC3720

I would clarify/correct it to say that it is allowed for third party but I =

can go for your interpretation
=20
> FastMultiTaskAbort =3DYes=20
>                           Allowed for issuing session, Allowed for=20
> third-party sessions=20

See above

> Latest updates:=20
> TaskReporting !=3DFastAbort
>                            Not allowed for issuing session, Allowed=20
> for third-party sessions=20
> TaskReporting=3DFastAbort
>                           Allowed for issuing session, Allowed for=20
> third-party sessions=20
>=20

If the mechanics is TM then as soon as TM rsponses are collected.

> Before we sanction more combinations of legal behavior, let us=20
> analyze why the last two combinations do not address the use cases=20
> we are concerned about.  More combinations mean more complexity.....
>=20
> As far as Julian's reference to "target-scoped" queues, I assume it=20
> is about the scope of a task set when TST=3D0.  IMHO, iSCSI needs to=20
> offer a reasonable processing model for this case with Clear Task=20
> Set TMF as well as that of a Logical Reset TMF (which always affects
> tasks from multiple initiators even if TST=3D1).  That is where the=20
> value of fast abort comes in.
>=20

I agree except that I would say that the effects on initiators other than=20
the issuing may be unexpected if they use a mechanism with different=20
semantics.

> Mallikarjun
>=20
>=20
>=20

> ----- Original Message ----
> From: "Black=5FDavid@emc.com" <Black=5FDavid@emc.com>
> To: Julian=5FSatran@il.ibm.com
> Cc: ips@ietf.org
> Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 9:45:25 AM
> Subject: RE: [Ips] TMF text with updates

> Julian,
>=20
> I'm not sure I completely understand what you wrote, but if you're
> suggesting that for a TMF that affects tasks from multiple initiators:
> - Fast abort (early termination of data transfers) is used for the=20
sending
>     initiator.
> - The existing 3270 abort mechanism is used with other initiators, with
>     the update that the TMF response does not have to wait for data=20
transfer
>     completion.
> I think that suggestion is reasonable, and it actually helps with the=20
use
> case that started this (3rd party initiator is dead).  The draft text=20
would
> need to change to allow this (right now it mandates fast abort in all=20
cases
> if the key is negotiated to support it)
>=20
> I'm not sure how target-scoped queues enter into this.
>=20
> Thanks,
> --David
> ----------------------------------------------------=20
> David L. Black, Senior Technologist=20
> EMC Corporation, 176 South St., Hopkinton, MA  01748=20
> +1 (508) 293-7953             FAX: +1 (508) 293-7786=20
> black=5Fdavid@emc.com        Mobile: +1 (978) 394-7754=20
> ----------------------------------------------------=20
>=20
> From: Julian Satran [mailto:Julian=5FSatran@il.ibm.com]=20
> Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 6:16 AM
> To: Black, David
> Cc: cb=5Fmallikarjun@yahoo.com; ips@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [Ips] TMF text with updates

>=20
> David,=20
>=20
> My point was that we can solve the TM issue only for a single=20
> initiator. So besides puting the burden on SCSI to cleanly finish=20
> other and advise that fast solutions really work if there are no=20
> target scoped queues there is little we can do. And if we limit=20
> ourselves to a single initiator the multiple TM solution is a=20
> simpler (and basically does not deviate from 3270).  If you consider
> how software stacks are layered I assume that some clever=20
> implementers have figured that already (and did it).=20
>=20
> Regards,=20
> Julo=20
>=20

>=20
> Black=5FDavid@emc.com=20
> 28/12/06 21:54=20
>=20
> To
>=20
> Julian Satran/Haifa/IBM@IBMIL, <cb=5Fmallikarjun@yahoo.com>=20
>=20
> cc
>=20
> <ips@ietf.org>=20
>=20
> Subject
>=20
> RE: [Ips] TMF text with updates
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> I agree with Julian that we should avoid discussing "buffer allocations" =

and=20
> the like, even though we know that something like that has to happen in=20
at=20
> least iSER implementations.  A general discussion of "resources" works.=20
>=20
> > You could achive the same effect by issuing the TM command on=20
> every affected connection.=20
>=20
> Not for TMF's that affect commands from other initiators.  Also, asking=20
the=20
> target to coordinate receipt of the TM command on every connection in a=20
> multi-connection session is also a bit much.=20
>=20
> > The third party story is even more puzzling as in order to negotiate=20
any of
> > the new TM modes the taget will have to ascertain that all other=20
initiators
> > support it. I fail to understand how would you handle downgrading the=20
mode=20
> > for those that don't.=20
>=20
> I think the target has to track this initiator by initiator, and=20
notissue the
> new async message to old initiators.  This increases the importance of=20
being=20
> able to complete a TMF in the face of an uncooperative third party=20
"Legacy"=20
> initiator.=20
>=20
> > And if you don't downgrade why not state that fast-abort and target=20
scoped=20
> > queues don't go together and simplify the mechanics to a multiple=20
issue TM.
> This didn't parse for me - could you explain in more detail?=20
>=20
> Thanks,=20
> --David=20
> ----------------------------------------------------=20
> David L. Black, Senior Technologist=20
> EMC Corporation, 176 South St., Hopkinton, MA  01748=20
> +1 (508) 293-7953             FAX: +1 (508) 293-7786=20
> black=5Fdavid@emc.com        Mobile: +1 (978) 394-7754=20
> ----------------------------------------------------=20
>=20
> From: Julian Satran [mailto:Julian=5FSatran@il.ibm.com]=20
> Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2006 5:32 AM
> To: Mallikarjun C.
> Cc: ips@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [Ips] TMF text with updates
>=20
>=20
> Mallikarjun,=20
>=20
> I would consider the text:=20
>=20
> c. MUST leave all active "affected TTTs" (i.e. active TTTs=20
> associated with affected tasks) valid along with any buffer=20
> allocations for the TTTs intact.=20
>=20
> somewhat excessive as it relates too much to implementation. I would
> rather say:=20
>=20
> c. MUST leave all active "affected TTTs" (i.e. active TTTs=20
> associated with affected tasks) valid.=20
>=20
> and leave the buffer issue to the implementer (as I have stated=20
> already on this list).=20
>=20
> I also keep thinking (and mildly  objecting to) that the whole fast=20
> abort is excesively complex.=20
>=20
> You could achive the same effect by issuing the TM command on every=20
> affected connection.=20
> The third party story is even more puzzling as in order to negotiate
> any of the nem TM modes the taget will have to ascertain that all=20
> other initiators support it. I fail to understand how would you=20
> handle downgrading the mode for those that don't. And if you don't=20
> downgrade why not state that fast-abort and target scoped queues=20
> don't go together and simplify the mechanics to a multiple issue TM.=20
>=20
> Thanks,=20
> Julo=20

>=20
> "Mallikarjun C." <cb=5Fmallikarjun@yahoo.com>=20
> 28/12/06 06:41=20
>=20
> To
>=20
> ips@ietf.org=20
>=20
> cc
>=20
> Subject
>=20
> [Ips] TMF text with updates
>=20
>=20

>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Attached is the latest text that incorporates David's proposed=20
> enhancement.  Please review and comment.  Note especially two=20
> things: new section 4.1.4 that summarizes generic implementation=20
> considerations for both "clarified" and "updated" semantics, the=20
> changed text in 4.1.2 that says "MAY wait for ....target transfer=20
> tags.....from third-party initiators" from the previous blanket MUST.
>=20
> Mallikarjun
>=20
>=20
>=20
> 4.1.2 Clarified multi-task abort semantics
> All iSCSI implementations MUST support the protocol behavior defined
> in this section as the default behavior.  The execution of ABORT=20
> TASK SET, CLEAR TASK SET, LOGICAL UNIT RESET, TARGET WARM RESET, and
> TARGET COLD RESET TMF Requests consists of the following sequence of
> actions in the specified order on the specified party.=20
> The initiator iSCSI layer:
> a. MUST continue to respond to each TTT received for the affected tasks. =


> b. Should receive any responses that the target may provide for some
> tasks among the affected tasks (may process them as usual because=20
> they are guaranteed to have chronologically originated prior to the=20
> TMF response).=20
> c. Should receive the TMF Response concluding all the tasks in the=20
> set of affected tasks.=20
>=20
> The target iSCSI layer:
> a. MUST wait for currently valid target transfer tags of the=20
> affected tasks from the issuing initiator to be responded to.  MAY=20
> wait for responses on currently valid target transfer tags of the=20
> affected tasks from third-party initiators.
> b. MUST wait (concurrent with the wait in Step.a) for all commands=20
> of the affected tasks to be received based on the CmdSN ordering.=20
> SHOULD NOT wait for new commands on third-party affected sessions -=20
> only the instantiated tasks have to be considered for the purpose of
> determining the affected tasks.  In the case of target-scoped=20
> requests (i.e. TARGET WARM RESET and TARGET COLD RESET), all the=20
> commands that are not yet received on the issuing session in the=20
> command stream however can be considered to have been received with=20
> no command waiting period - i.e. the entire CmdSN space up to the=20
> CmdSN of the task management function can be "plugged".
> c. MUST propagate the TMF request to and receive the response from=20
> the target SCSI layer.=20
> d. MUST address the Response Fence flag on the TMF Response on=20
> issuing session as defined in 3.3.2.
> e. MUST address the Response Fence flag on the first post-TMF=20
> Response on third-party sessions as defined in 3.3.2.  If some tasks
> originate from non-iSCSI I=5FT=5FL nexuses then the means by which the=20
> target ensures that all affected tasks have returned their status to
> the initiator are defined by the specific non-iSCSI transport=20
protocol(s).
> Implementation note: Technically, the TMF servicing is complete in=20
> Step.d.  Data transfers corresponding to terminated tasks may=20
> however still be in progress on third-party iSCSI sessiosn even at=20
> the end of Step.e.  TMF Response MUST NOT be sent by the target=20
> iSCSI layer before the end of Step.d, and MAY be sent at the end of=20
> Step.d despite these outstanding Data transfers until after Step.e.
>=20
> 4.1.3 Updated multi-task abort semantics
> Protocol behavior defined in this section MUST be implemented by all
> iSCSI implementations complying with this document.  Protocol=20
> behavior defined in this section MUST be exhibited by iSCSI=20
> implementations on an iSCSI session when they negotiate the=20
> TaskReporting (section 9.1) key to ?FastAbort? on that session.  The
> execution of ABORT TASK SET, CLEAR TASK SET, LOGICAL UNIT RESET,=20
> TARGET WARM RESET, and TARGET COLD RESET TMF Requests consists of=20
> the following sequence of actions in the specified order on the=20
> specified party.=20
> The initiator iSCSI layer:
> a. MUST NOT send any more Data-Out PDUs for affected tasks on the=20
> issuing connection of the issuing iSCSI session once the TMF is sent
> to the target.
> b. Should receive any responses that the target may provide for some
> tasks among the affected tasks (may process them as usual because=20
> they are guaranteed to have chronologically originated prior to the=20
> TMF response).
> c. MUST respond to Async Message PDU with AsyncEvent=3D5 as defined in
> section 8.1.
> d. Should receive the TMF Response concluding all the tasks in the=20
> set of affected tasks.
>=20
> The target iSCSI layer:
> a. MUST wait for all commands of the affected tasks to be received=20
> based on the CmdSN ordering on the issuing session.  SHOULD NOT wait
> for new commands on third-party affected sessions - only the=20
> instantiated tasks have to be considered for the purpose of=20
> determining the affected tasks.  In the case of target-scoped=20
> requests (i.e. TARGET WARM RESET and TARGET COLD RESET), all the=20
> commands that are not yet received on the issuing session in the=20
> command stream however can be considered to have been received with=20
> no command waiting period - i.e. the entire CmdSN space up to the=20
> CmdSN of the task management function can be "plugged".
> b. MUST propagate the TMF request to and receive the response from=20
> the target SCSI layer.=20
> c. MUST leave all active "affected TTTs" (i.e. active TTTs=20
> associated with affected tasks) valid along with any buffer=20
> allocations for the TTTs intact.
> d. MUST generate an Asynchronous Message PDU with AsyncEvent=3D5=20
> (section 8.1) on:
> i) each connection of each third-party session that at least one=20
> affected task is allegiant to, and
> ii) each connection except the issuing connection of the issuing=20
> session that has at least one allegiant affected task.
> If there are multiple affected LUs (say due to a target reset), then
> one Async Message PDU MUST be sent for each such LU on each=20
> connection that has at least one allegiant affected task.
> e. MUST address the Response Fence flag on the TMF Response on=20
> issuing session as defined in 3.3.2.
> f. MUST address the Response Fence flag on the first post-TMF=20
> Response on third-party sessions as defined in 3.3.2. If some tasks=20
> originate from non-iSCSI I=5FT=5FL nexuses then the means by which the=20
> target ensures that all affected tasks have returned their status to
> the initiator are defined by the specific non-iSCSI transport=20
protocol(s).
> g. MUST free up the affected TTTs (and STags, if applicable) and the
> corresponding buffers once it receives the associated Nop-Out=20
> acknowledgement that the initiator generated in response to the=20
> Async Message.=20
> Implementation note: Technically, the TMF servicing is complete in=20
> Step.e.  Data transfers corresponding to terminated tasks may=20
> however still be in progress even at the end of Step.f.  TMF=20
> Response MUST NOT be sent by the target iSCSI layer before the end=20
> of Step.e, and MAY be sent at the end of Step.e despite these=20
> outstanding Data transfers until Step.g.  Step.g specifies an event=20
> to free up any such resources that may have been reserved to support
> outstanding data transfers.=20
> 4.1.3.1 Clearing effects update
> Appendix F.1 of [RFC3720] specifies the clearing effects of target=20
> and LU resets on ?Incomplete TTTs? as ?Y?.  This meant that a target
> warm reset or a target cold reset or an LU reset would clear the=20
> active TTTs upon completion.  The TaskReporting=3DFastAbort (section=20
> 9.1) semantics defined by this section however do not guarantee that
> the active TTTs are cleared by the end of the reset operations.  In=20
> fact, the new semantics are designed to allow clearing the TTTs in a
> ?lazy? fashion after the TMF Response is delivered.  Thus, when=20
> TaskReporting=3DFastAbort is operational on a session, the clearing=20
> effects of reset operations on ?Incomplete TTTs? is ?N?.=20
> 4.1.4 Implementation considerations
> Both in clarified semantics (section 4.1.2) and updated semantics=20
> (section 4.1.3), there may be outstanding data transfers even after=20
> the TMF completion is reported on the issuing session.  In the case=20
> of iSCSI/iSER [iSER], these would be tagged data transfers for STags
> not owned by any active tasks.  Whether or not real buffers support=20
> these data transfers is implementation-dependent.  However, the data
> transfers logically MUST be silently discarded by the target iSCSI=20
> layer in all cases.  A target MAY, on an implementation-defined=20
> internal timeout, also choose to drop the connections on which it=20
> did not receive the expected Data-out sequences (section 4.1.2) or=20
> Nop-Out acknowledgements (section 4.1.3) so as to reclaim the=20
> associated buffer, STag and TTT resources as appropriate.
>=20
>=20
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: "Black=5FDavid@emc.com" <Black=5FDavid@emc.com>
> To: Black=5FDavid@emc.com; cb=5Fmallikarjun@yahoo.com; ips@ietf.org
> Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2006 2:33:43 PM
> Subject: RE: [Ips] Implementer's Guide - Task Management Issue
>=20
>=20
> > Let's try this line of reasoning - the target issues the Nop-Out, now
> when
> > can it free the resources?  Answer:
> >     - The Nop-In response comes back, OR
> >     - The connection times out and is torn down.
> > Now, what if the Nop-Out is not issued - what does the target wait for
> to
> > free the resources?  Answer:
> >     - The transfers complete, OR
> >     - The connection times out and is torn down.=20
> > Those look similar enough at the target (the worst case is the same -
> the
> > resources are tied up until an uncooperative initiator times out) that
> > I don't see the harm in allowing the early TMF return without the new
> > key.  The clear distinction is that the first two bullets are
> different;
> > if the new key is not negotiated, the target has to wait for the
> transfers
> > to complete; the new key and the Nop-Out are necessary to walk away
> earlier
> > when the initiator involved is able to continue the transfers.
>=20
> That got slightly twisted - what it should have talked about was the
> target
> issuing the new Async Message and the Nop-Out response coming back.
>=20
> Thanks,
> --David
> ----------------------------------------------------
> David L. Black, Senior Technologist
> EMC Corporation, 176 South St., Hopkinton, MA  01748
> +1 (508) 293-7953             FAX: +1 (508) 293-7786
> black=5Fdavid@emc.com        Mobile: +1 (978) 394-7754
> ----------------------------------------------------
>=20
> =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=
=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=
=5F
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around=20
> http://mail.yahoo.com=20
>=20
> =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=
=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F
> Ips mailing list
> Ips@ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ips

> =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=
=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F
> Ips mailing list
> Ips@ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ips
>=20
>=20
> =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=
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=5F
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around=20
> http://mail.yahoo.com =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=
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> Ips mailing list
> Ips@ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ips

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<br><font size=3D2 face=3D"sans-serif">Mallikarjun,</font>
<br><font size=3D2 face=3D"sans-serif">My reading was slightly different as
bellow</font>
<br>
<br><tt><font size=3D2>&quot;Mallikarjun C.&quot; &lt;cb=5Fmallikarjun@yaho=
o.com&gt;
wrote on 29/12/2006 23:42:09:<br>
<br>
&gt; David and Julian,<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Just to be clear on the semantics:<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; &quot;Fast abort&quot; =3D early reporting of TMF completion despite
outstandingtransfers<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; RFC 3720 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Not allowed for issuing
session, Not allowed for <br>
&gt; third-party sessions<br>
&gt; </font></tt>
<br><tt><font size=3D2>RFC3270 pays only lip-service to third party sessions
(there is little you can do beside it.</font></tt>
<br><tt><font size=3D2><br>
&gt; IG (Last Call): &nbsp; &nbsp; <br>
&gt; FastMultiTaskAbort !=3DYes<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Same as RFC3720</font></tt>
<br>
<br><tt><font size=3D2>I would clarify/correct it to say that it is allowed
for third party but I can go for your interpretation</font></tt>
<br><tt><font size=3D2>&nbsp;<br>
&gt; FastMultiTaskAbort =3DYes &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; <br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Allowed for issuing session, Allowed for <br>
&gt; third-party sessions </font></tt>
<br>
<br><tt><font size=3D2>See above</font></tt>
<br><tt><font size=3D2><br>
&gt; Latest updates: &nbsp;<br>
&gt; TaskReporting !=3DFastAbort<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Not allowed for issuing session, Allowed <br>
&gt; for third-party sessions <br>
&gt; TaskReporting=3DFastAbort<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Allowed for issuing session, Allowed for <br>
&gt; third-party sessions <br>
&gt; </font></tt>
<br>
<br><tt><font size=3D2>If the mechanics is TM then as soon as TM rsponses
are collected.</font></tt>
<br><tt><font size=3D2><br>
&gt; Before we sanction more combinations of legal behavior, let us <br>
&gt; analyze why the last two combinations do not address the use cases
<br>
&gt; we are concerned about. &nbsp;More combinations mean more complexity..=
...<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; As far as Julian's reference to &quot;target-scoped&quot; queues,
I assume it <br>
&gt; is about the scope of a task set when TST=3D0. &nbsp;IMHO, iSCSI needs
to <br>
&gt; offer a reasonable processing model for this case with Clear Task
<br>
&gt; Set TMF as well as that of a Logical Reset TMF (which always affects<b=
r>
&gt; tasks from multiple initiators even if TST=3D1). &nbsp;That is where
the <br>
&gt; value of fast abort comes in.<br>
&gt; </font></tt>
<br>
<br><tt><font size=3D2>I agree except that I would say that the effects on
initiators other than the issuing may be unexpected if they use a mechanism
with different semantics.</font></tt>
<br><tt><font size=3D2><br>
&gt; Mallikarjun<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
</font></tt>
<br><tt><font size=3D2>&gt; ----- Original Message ----<br>
&gt; From: &quot;Black=5FDavid@emc.com&quot; &lt;Black=5FDavid@emc.com&gt;<=
br>
&gt; To: Julian=5FSatran@il.ibm.com<br>
&gt; Cc: ips@ietf.org<br>
&gt; Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 9:45:25 AM<br>
&gt; Subject: RE: [Ips] TMF text with updates<br>
</font></tt>
<br><tt><font size=3D2>&gt; Julian,</font></tt>
<br><tt><font size=3D2>&gt; &nbsp;</font></tt>
<br><tt><font size=3D2>&gt; I'm not sure I completely understand what you
wrote, but if you're</font></tt>
<br><tt><font size=3D2>&gt; suggesting that for a TMF that affects tasks
from multiple initiators:</font></tt>
<br><tt><font size=3D2>&gt; - Fast abort (early termination of data transfe=
rs)
is used for the sending</font></tt>
<br><tt><font size=3D2>&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; initiator.</font></tt>
<br><tt><font size=3D2>&gt; - The existing 3270 abort mechanism is used with
other initiators, with</font></tt>
<br><tt><font size=3D2>&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; the update that the TMF response
does not have to wait for data transfer</font></tt>
<br><tt><font size=3D2>&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; completion.</font></tt>
<br><tt><font size=3D2>&gt; I think that suggestion is reasonable, and it
actually helps with the use</font></tt>
<br><tt><font size=3D2>&gt; case that started this (3rd party initiator is
dead). &nbsp;The draft text would</font></tt>
<br><tt><font size=3D2>&gt; need to change to allow this (right now it mand=
ates
fast abort in all cases</font></tt>
<br><tt><font size=3D2>&gt; if the key is negotiated to support it)</font><=
/tt>
<br><tt><font size=3D2>&gt; &nbsp;</font></tt>
<br><tt><font size=3D2>&gt; I'm not sure how target-scoped queues enter into
this.</font></tt>
<br><tt><font size=3D2>&gt; &nbsp;</font></tt>
<br><tt><font size=3D2>&gt; Thanks,</font></tt>
<br><tt><font size=3D2>&gt; --David</font></tt>
<br><tt><font size=3D2>&gt; -----------------------------------------------=
-----
<br>
&gt; David L. Black, Senior Technologist <br>
&gt; EMC Corporation, 176 South St., Hopkinton, MA &nbsp;01748 <br>
&gt; +1 (508) 293-7953 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; FAX: +1
(508) 293-7786 <br>
&gt; black=5Fdavid@emc.com &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Mobile: +1 (978) 394-=
7754
<br>
&gt; ---------------------------------------------------- </font></tt>
<br><tt><font size=3D2>&gt; <br>
&gt; From: Julian Satran [mailto:Julian=5FSatran@il.ibm.com] <br>
&gt; Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 6:16 AM<br>
&gt; To: Black, David<br>
&gt; Cc: cb=5Fmallikarjun@yahoo.com; ips@ietf.org<br>
&gt; Subject: RE: [Ips] TMF text with updates<br>
</font></tt>
<br><tt><font size=3D2>&gt; <br>
&gt; David, <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; My point was that we can solve the TM issue only for a single <br>
&gt; initiator. So besides puting the burden on SCSI to cleanly finish
<br>
&gt; other and advise that fast solutions really work if there are no <br>
&gt; target scoped queues there is little we can do. And if we limit <br>
&gt; ourselves to a single initiator the multiple TM solution is a <br>
&gt; simpler (and basically does not deviate from 3270). &nbsp;If you consi=
der<br>
&gt; how software stacks are layered I assume that some clever <br>
&gt; implementers have figured that already (and did it). <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Regards, <br>
&gt; Julo <br>
&gt; <br>
</font></tt>
<br><tt><font size=3D2>&gt; <br>
&gt; Black=5FDavid@emc.com </font></tt>
<br><tt><font size=3D2>&gt; 28/12/06 21:54 </font></tt>
<br><tt><font size=3D2>&gt; <br>
&gt; To</font></tt>
<br><tt><font size=3D2>&gt; <br>
&gt; Julian Satran/Haifa/IBM@IBMIL, &lt;cb=5Fmallikarjun@yahoo.com&gt; </fo=
nt></tt>
<br><tt><font size=3D2>&gt; <br>
&gt; cc</font></tt>
<br><tt><font size=3D2>&gt; <br>
&gt; &lt;ips@ietf.org&gt; </font></tt>
<br><tt><font size=3D2>&gt; <br>
&gt; Subject</font></tt>
<br><tt><font size=3D2>&gt; <br>
&gt; RE: [Ips] TMF text with updates</font></tt>
<br><tt><font size=3D2>&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; I agree with Julian that we should avoid discussing &quot;buffer alloc=
ations&quot;
and <br>
&gt; the like, even though we know that something like that has to happen
in at <br>
&gt; least iSER implementations. &nbsp;A general discussion of &quot;resour=
ces&quot;
works. <br>
&gt; &nbsp; <br>
&gt; &gt; You could achive the same effect by issuing the TM command on
<br>
&gt; every affected connection. <br>
&gt; &nbsp; <br>
&gt; Not for TMF's that affect commands from other initiators. &nbsp;Also,
asking the <br>
&gt; target to coordinate receipt of the TM command on every connection
in a <br>
&gt; multi-connection session is also a bit much. <br>
&gt; &nbsp; <br>
&gt; &gt; The third party story is even more puzzling as in order to negoti=
ate
any of<br>
&gt; &gt; the new TM modes the taget will have to ascertain that all other
initiators<br>
&gt; &gt; support it. I fail to understand how would you handle downgrading
the mode <br>
&gt; &gt; for those that don't. <br>
&gt; &nbsp; <br>
&gt; I think the target has to track this initiator by initiator, and notis=
sue
the<br>
&gt; new async message to old initiators. &nbsp;This increases the importan=
ce
of being <br>
&gt; able to complete a TMF in the face of an uncooperative third party
&quot;Legacy&quot; <br>
&gt; initiator. <br>
&gt; &nbsp; <br>
&gt; &gt; And if you don't downgrade why not state that fast-abort and
target scoped <br>
&gt; &gt; queues don't go together and simplify the mechanics to a multiple
issue TM.<br>
&gt; This didn't parse for me - could you explain in more detail? <br>
&gt; &nbsp; <br>
&gt; Thanks, <br>
&gt; --David </font></tt>
<br><tt><font size=3D2>&gt; -----------------------------------------------=
-----
<br>
&gt; David L. Black, Senior Technologist <br>
&gt; EMC Corporation, 176 South St., Hopkinton, MA &nbsp;01748 <br>
&gt; +1 (508) 293-7953 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; FAX: +1
(508) 293-7786 <br>
&gt; black=5Fdavid@emc.com &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Mobile: +1 (978) 394-=
7754
<br>
&gt; ---------------------------------------------------- </font></tt>
<br><tt><font size=3D2>&gt; <br>
&gt; From: Julian Satran [mailto:Julian=5FSatran@il.ibm.com] <br>
&gt; Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2006 5:32 AM<br>
&gt; To: Mallikarjun C.<br>
&gt; Cc: ips@ietf.org<br>
&gt; Subject: Re: [Ips] TMF text with updates<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Mallikarjun, <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; I would consider the text: <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; c. MUST leave all active &quot;affected TTTs&quot; (i.e. active TTTs
<br>
&gt; associated with affected tasks) valid along with any buffer <br>
&gt; allocations for the TTTs intact. <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; somewhat excessive as it relates too much to implementation. I would<b=
r>
&gt; rather say: <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; c. MUST leave all active &quot;affected TTTs&quot; (i.e. active TTTs
<br>
&gt; associated with affected tasks) valid. <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; and leave the buffer issue to the implementer (as I have stated <br>
&gt; already on this list). <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; I also keep thinking (and mildly &nbsp;objecting to) that the whole
fast <br>
&gt; abort is excesively complex. <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; You could achive the same effect by issuing the TM command on every
<br>
&gt; affected connection. <br>
&gt; The third party story is even more puzzling as in order to negotiate<b=
r>
&gt; any of the nem TM modes the taget will have to ascertain that all
<br>
&gt; other initiators support it. I fail to understand how would you <br>
&gt; handle downgrading the mode for those that don't. And if you don't
<br>
&gt; downgrade why not state that fast-abort and target scoped queues <br>
&gt; don't go together and simplify the mechanics to a multiple issue TM.
<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Thanks, <br>
&gt; Julo <br>
</font></tt>
<br><tt><font size=3D2>&gt; <br>
&gt; &quot;Mallikarjun C.&quot; &lt;cb=5Fmallikarjun@yahoo.com&gt; </font><=
/tt>
<br><tt><font size=3D2>&gt; 28/12/06 06:41 </font></tt>
<br><tt><font size=3D2>&gt; <br>
&gt; To</font></tt>
<br><tt><font size=3D2>&gt; <br>
&gt; ips@ietf.org </font></tt>
<br><tt><font size=3D2>&gt; <br>
&gt; cc</font></tt>
<br><tt><font size=3D2>&gt; <br>
&gt; Subject</font></tt>
<br><tt><font size=3D2>&gt; <br>
&gt; [Ips] TMF text with updates</font></tt>
<br><tt><font size=3D2>&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
</font></tt>
<br><tt><font size=3D2>&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Attached is the latest text that incorporates David's proposed <br>
&gt; enhancement. &nbsp;Please review and comment. &nbsp;Note especially
two <br>
&gt; things: new section 4.1.4 that summarizes generic implementation <br>
&gt; considerations for both &quot;clarified&quot; and &quot;updated&quot;
semantics, the <br>
&gt; changed text in 4.1.2 that says &quot;MAY wait for ....target transfer
<br>
&gt; tags.....from third-party initiators&quot; from the previous blanket
MUST.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Mallikarjun<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; 4.1.2 Clarified multi-task abort semantics<br>
&gt; All iSCSI implementations MUST support the protocol behavior defined<b=
r>
&gt; in this section as the default behavior. &nbsp;The execution of ABORT
<br>
&gt; TASK SET, CLEAR TASK SET, LOGICAL UNIT RESET, TARGET WARM RESET, and<b=
r>
&gt; TARGET COLD RESET TMF Requests consists of the following sequence
of<br>
&gt; actions in the specified order on the specified party. <br>
&gt; The initiator iSCSI layer:<br>
&gt; a. MUST continue to respond to each TTT received for the affected
tasks. <br>
&gt; b. Should receive any responses that the target may provide for some<b=
r>
&gt; tasks among the affected tasks (may process them as usual because
<br>
&gt; they are guaranteed to have chronologically originated prior to the
<br>
&gt; TMF response). <br>
&gt; c. Should receive the TMF Response concluding all the tasks in the
<br>
&gt; set of affected tasks. <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; The target iSCSI layer:<br>
&gt; a. MUST wait for currently valid target transfer tags of the <br>
&gt; affected tasks from the issuing initiator to be responded to. &nbsp;MAY
<br>
&gt; wait for responses on currently valid target transfer tags of the
<br>
&gt; affected tasks from third-party initiators.<br>
&gt; b. MUST wait (concurrent with the wait in Step.a) for all commands
<br>
&gt; of the affected tasks to be received based on the CmdSN ordering.
&nbsp; <br>
&gt; SHOULD NOT wait for new commands on third-party affected sessions
- <br>
&gt; only the instantiated tasks have to be considered for the purpose
of<br>
&gt; determining the affected tasks. &nbsp;In the case of target-scoped
<br>
&gt; requests (i.e. TARGET WARM RESET and TARGET COLD RESET), all the <br>
&gt; commands that are not yet received on the issuing session in the <br>
&gt; command stream however can be considered to have been received with
<br>
&gt; no command waiting period - i.e. the entire CmdSN space up to the
<br>
&gt; CmdSN of the task management function can be &quot;plugged&quot;.<br>
&gt; c. MUST propagate the TMF request to and receive the response from
<br>
&gt; the target SCSI layer. <br>
&gt; d. MUST address the Response Fence flag on the TMF Response on <br>
&gt; issuing session as defined in 3.3.2.<br>
&gt; e. MUST address the Response Fence flag on the first post-TMF <br>
&gt; Response on third-party sessions as defined in 3.3.2. &nbsp;If some
tasks<br>
&gt; originate from non-iSCSI I=5FT=5FL nexuses then the means by which the
<br>
&gt; target ensures that all affected tasks have returned their status
to<br>
&gt; the initiator are defined by the specific non-iSCSI transport protocol=
(s).<br>
&gt; Implementation note: Technically, the TMF servicing is complete in
<br>
&gt; Step.d. &nbsp;Data transfers corresponding to terminated tasks may
<br>
&gt; however still be in progress on third-party iSCSI sessiosn even at
<br>
&gt; the end of Step.e. &nbsp;TMF Response MUST NOT be sent by the target
<br>
&gt; iSCSI layer before the end of Step.d, and MAY be sent at the end of
<br>
&gt; Step.d despite these outstanding Data transfers until after Step.e.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; 4.1.3 Updated multi-task abort semantics<br>
&gt; Protocol behavior defined in this section MUST be implemented by all<b=
r>
&gt; iSCSI implementations complying with this document. &nbsp;Protocol
<br>
&gt; behavior defined in this section MUST be exhibited by iSCSI <br>
&gt; implementations on an iSCSI session when they negotiate the <br>
&gt; TaskReporting (section 9.1) key to &#8220;FastAbort&#8221; on that ses=
sion.
&nbsp;The<br>
&gt; execution of ABORT TASK SET, CLEAR TASK SET, LOGICAL UNIT RESET, <br>
&gt; TARGET WARM RESET, and TARGET COLD RESET TMF Requests consists of
<br>
&gt; the following sequence of actions in the specified order on the <br>
&gt; specified party. <br>
&gt; The initiator iSCSI layer:<br>
&gt; a. MUST NOT send any more Data-Out PDUs for affected tasks on the
<br>
&gt; issuing connection of the issuing iSCSI session once the TMF is sent<b=
r>
&gt; to the target.<br>
&gt; b. Should receive any responses that the target may provide for some<b=
r>
&gt; tasks among the affected tasks (may process them as usual because
<br>
&gt; they are guaranteed to have chronologically originated prior to the
<br>
&gt; TMF response).<br>
&gt; c. MUST respond to Async Message PDU with AsyncEvent=3D5 as defined
in<br>
&gt; section 8.1.<br>
&gt; d. Should receive the TMF Response concluding all the tasks in the
<br>
&gt; set of affected tasks.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; The target iSCSI layer:<br>
&gt; a. MUST wait for all commands of the affected tasks to be received
<br>
&gt; based on the CmdSN ordering on the issuing session. &nbsp;SHOULD NOT
wait<br>
&gt; for new commands on third-party affected sessions - only the <br>
&gt; instantiated tasks have to be considered for the purpose of <br>
&gt; determining the affected tasks. &nbsp;In the case of target-scoped
<br>
&gt; requests (i.e. TARGET WARM RESET and TARGET COLD RESET), all the <br>
&gt; commands that are not yet received on the issuing session in the <br>
&gt; command stream however can be considered to have been received with
<br>
&gt; no command waiting period - i.e. the entire CmdSN space up to the
<br>
&gt; CmdSN of the task management function can be &quot;plugged&quot;.<br>
&gt; b. MUST propagate the TMF request to and receive the response from
<br>
&gt; the target SCSI layer. <br>
&gt; c. MUST leave all active &quot;affected TTTs&quot; (i.e. active TTTs
<br>
&gt; associated with affected tasks) valid along with any buffer <br>
&gt; allocations for the TTTs intact.<br>
&gt; d. MUST generate an Asynchronous Message PDU with AsyncEvent=3D5 <br>
&gt; (section 8.1) on:<br>
&gt; i) each connection of each third-party session that at least one <br>
&gt; affected task is allegiant to, and<br>
&gt; ii) each connection except the issuing connection of the issuing <br>
&gt; session that has at least one allegiant affected task.<br>
&gt; If there are multiple affected LUs (say due to a target reset), then<b=
r>
&gt; one Async Message PDU MUST be sent for each such LU on each <br>
&gt; connection that has at least one allegiant affected task.<br>
&gt; e. MUST address the Response Fence flag on the TMF Response on <br>
&gt; issuing session as defined in 3.3.2.<br>
&gt; f. MUST address the Response Fence flag on the first post-TMF <br>
&gt; Response on third-party sessions as defined in 3.3.2. If some tasks
<br>
&gt; originate from non-iSCSI I=5FT=5FL nexuses then the means by which the
<br>
&gt; target ensures that all affected tasks have returned their status
to<br>
&gt; the initiator are defined by the specific non-iSCSI transport protocol=
(s).<br>
&gt; g. MUST free up the affected TTTs (and STags, if applicable) and the<b=
r>
&gt; corresponding buffers once it receives the associated Nop-Out <br>
&gt; acknowledgement that the initiator generated in response to the <br>
&gt; Async Message. &nbsp;<br>
&gt; Implementation note: Technically, the TMF servicing is complete in
<br>
&gt; Step.e. &nbsp;Data transfers corresponding to terminated tasks may
<br>
&gt; however still be in progress even at the end of Step.f. &nbsp;TMF
<br>
&gt; Response MUST NOT be sent by the target iSCSI layer before the end
<br>
&gt; of Step.e, and MAY be sent at the end of Step.e despite these <br>
&gt; outstanding Data transfers until Step.g. &nbsp;Step.g specifies an
event <br>
&gt; to free up any such resources that may have been reserved to support<b=
r>
&gt; outstanding data transfers. &nbsp;<br>
&gt; 4.1.3.1 Clearing effects update<br>
&gt; Appendix F.1 of [RFC3720] specifies the clearing effects of target
<br>
&gt; and LU resets on &#8220;Incomplete TTTs&#8221; as &#8220;Y&#8221;. &nb=
sp;This meant that
a target<br>
&gt; warm reset or a target cold reset or an LU reset would clear the <br>
&gt; active TTTs upon completion. &nbsp;The TaskReporting=3DFastAbort (sect=
ion
<br>
&gt; 9.1) semantics defined by this section however do not guarantee that<b=
r>
&gt; the active TTTs are cleared by the end of the reset operations. &nbsp;=
In
<br>
&gt; fact, the new semantics are designed to allow clearing the TTTs in
a<br>
&gt; &#8220;lazy&#8221; fashion after the TMF Response is delivered. &nbsp;=
Thus,
when <br>
&gt; TaskReporting=3DFastAbort is operational on a session, the clearing
<br>
&gt; effects of reset operations on &#8220;Incomplete TTTs&#8221; is &#8220=
;N&#8221;. &nbsp;<br>
&gt; 4.1.4 Implementation considerations<br>
&gt; Both in clarified semantics (section 4.1.2) and updated semantics
<br>
&gt; (section 4.1.3), there may be outstanding data transfers even after
<br>
&gt; the TMF completion is reported on the issuing session. &nbsp;In the
case <br>
&gt; of iSCSI/iSER [iSER], these would be tagged data transfers for STags<b=
r>
&gt; not owned by any active tasks. &nbsp;Whether or not real buffers suppo=
rt
<br>
&gt; these data transfers is implementation-dependent. &nbsp;However, the
data<br>
&gt; transfers logically MUST be silently discarded by the target iSCSI
<br>
&gt; layer in all cases. &nbsp;A target MAY, on an implementation-defined
<br>
&gt; internal timeout, also choose to drop the connections on which it
<br>
&gt; did not receive the expected Data-out sequences (section 4.1.2) or
<br>
&gt; Nop-Out acknowledgements (section 4.1.3) so as to reclaim the <br>
&gt; associated buffer, STag and TTT resources as appropriate.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; ----- Original Message ----<br>
&gt; From: &quot;Black=5FDavid@emc.com&quot; &lt;Black=5FDavid@emc.com&gt;<=
br>
&gt; To: Black=5FDavid@emc.com; cb=5Fmallikarjun@yahoo.com; ips@ietf.org<br>
&gt; Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2006 2:33:43 PM<br>
&gt; Subject: RE: [Ips] Implementer's Guide - Task Management Issue<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; &gt; Let's try this line of reasoning - the target issues the Nop-Out,
now<br>
&gt; when<br>
&gt; &gt; can it free the resources? &nbsp;Answer:<br>
&gt; &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; - The Nop-In response comes back, OR<br>
&gt; &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; - The connection times out and is torn down.<br>
&gt; &gt; Now, what if the Nop-Out is not issued - what does the target
wait for<br>
&gt; to<br>
&gt; &gt; free the resources? &nbsp;Answer:<br>
&gt; &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; - The transfers complete, OR<br>
&gt; &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; - The connection times out and is torn down. <br>
&gt; &gt; Those look similar enough at the target (the worst case is the
same -<br>
&gt; the<br>
&gt; &gt; resources are tied up until an uncooperative initiator times
out) that<br>
&gt; &gt; I don't see the harm in allowing the early TMF return without
the new<br>
&gt; &gt; key. &nbsp;The clear distinction is that the first two bullets
are<br>
&gt; different;<br>
&gt; &gt; if the new key is not negotiated, the target has to wait for
the<br>
&gt; transfers<br>
&gt; &gt; to complete; the new key and the Nop-Out are necessary to walk
away<br>
&gt; earlier<br>
&gt; &gt; when the initiator involved is able to continue the transfers.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; That got slightly twisted - what it should have talked about was the<b=
r>
&gt; target<br>
&gt; issuing the new Async Message and the Nop-Out response coming back.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Thanks,<br>
&gt; --David<br>
&gt; ----------------------------------------------------<br>
&gt; David L. Black, Senior Technologist<br>
&gt; EMC Corporation, 176 South St., Hopkinton, MA &nbsp;01748<br>
&gt; +1 (508) 293-7953 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; FAX: +1
(508) 293-7786<br>
&gt; black=5Fdavid@emc.com &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Mobile: +1 (978) 394-=
7754<br>
&gt; ----------------------------------------------------<br>
&gt; <br>
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</font></tt>
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From ips-bounces@ietf.org Mon Jan 01 08:54:17 2007
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From: "Eddy Quicksall" <Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net>
To: <Black_David@emc.com>,
	<ips@ietf.org>
References: <F222151D3323874393F83102D614E055068B8AAE@CORPUSMX20A.corp.emc.com>
Subject: Re: [Ips] iSCSI Implementer's Guide - WG Last Call status
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Actually I didn't want to discourage targets from checking but to point out 
that checking is not required unless the RFC specifically requires it. The 
note could in fact encourage checking where performance is not affected.

Eddy

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <Black_David@emc.com>
To: <ips@ietf.org>
Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2006 3:27 PM
Subject: [Ips] iSCSI Implementer's Guide - WG Last Call status


The Working Group Last Call on this draft nominally ended on
December 18th, but there was no reason to treat that as a hard
cutoff.  I am now ending the WG Last Call on this draft, although
list discussion of issues should be continued.

There have been two issues raised during this WGLC:
(1) Task Management - how to deal with uncooperative third-
party initiators.  This issue has been resolved
on the list.
(2) Target checks - whether to discourage targets from
checking for initiator mistakes that the target can
tolerate.  At the moment, I think the "rough consensus"
of the WG is not to do this - if anyone other than
Eddy thinks this is important to clarify, they need
to speak up promptly after the holidays.

The process from here is that Mallikarjun will submit a
revised version of the draft in the near future (there are
still some details to be worked out on the list).  I will
be completely out of action (no email) the first two weeks
of January, so there will be time for people to check for
problems/issues/etc.  I will check the revised draft and
send it to Lars with a request for RFC publication sometime
in the second half of January (probably during the week of
January 22nd).

Thanks,
--David

----------------------------------------------------
David L. Black, Senior Technologist
EMC Corporation, 176 South St., Hopkinton, MA  01748
+1 (508) 293-7953             FAX: +1 (508) 293-7786
black_david@emc.com        Mobile: +1 (978) 394-7754
----------------------------------------------------


_______________________________________________
Ips mailing list
Ips@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ips 


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From ips-bounces@ietf.org Mon Jan 01 20:06:08 2007
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Subject: RE: [Ips] iSCSI Implementer's Guide - WG Last Call status
Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2007 17:05:30 -0800
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From: "Sandars, Ken" <ken_sandars@adaptec.com>
To: "Eddy Quicksall" <Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net>, <Black_David@emc.com>,
	<ips@ietf.org>
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Happy New Gregorian Year,

I support Eddy's request for some words to suggest that target
implementations should be allowed to handle initiator errors in a manner
which does not damage the target behaviour.

Target behaviour should be evaluated by its transmissions on the wire
and via data integrity tests. Test suites and protocol analysers should
not assume what the target's actions will be as a result of illegal
initiator behaviour unless explicitly defined in RFC3720.

For example, say an initiator issues a Logout Request PDU with reason
code 0 (close the session), but sets the CID field to the current
connection. The target MAY process this command as though there is no
error on the part of the initiator. A test suite or protocol analyser
MUST NOT penalise the target if it does so.

Another example is an initiator which sets either the W or/and R bits in
a SCSI Command Request PDU which has an Expected Data Transfer Length of
0.

Finally, a test-suite which sets a non-zero value in reserved fields for
initiator PDUs should not expect the target to check these values.

Clearly a target which performs additional checking of the initiator's
PDUs is likely to be more robust when faced with reception errors when
not using digests.


Cheers
Ken

-----Original Message-----
From: Eddy Quicksall [mailto:Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net]=20
Sent: Tuesday, 2 January 2007 00:54
To: Black_David@emc.com; ips@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Ips] iSCSI Implementer's Guide - WG Last Call status

Actually I didn't want to discourage targets from checking but to point
out that checking is not required unless the RFC specifically requires
it. The note could in fact encourage checking where performance is not
affected.

Eddy

----- Original Message -----
From: <Black_David@emc.com>
To: <ips@ietf.org>
Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2006 3:27 PM
Subject: [Ips] iSCSI Implementer's Guide - WG Last Call status


The Working Group Last Call on this draft nominally ended on
December 18th, but there was no reason to treat that as a hard
cutoff.  I am now ending the WG Last Call on this draft, although
list discussion of issues should be continued.

There have been two issues raised during this WGLC:
(1) Task Management - how to deal with uncooperative third-
party initiators.  This issue has been resolved
on the list.
(2) Target checks - whether to discourage targets from
checking for initiator mistakes that the target can
tolerate.  At the moment, I think the "rough consensus"
of the WG is not to do this - if anyone other than
Eddy thinks this is important to clarify, they need
to speak up promptly after the holidays.

The process from here is that Mallikarjun will submit a
revised version of the draft in the near future (there are
still some details to be worked out on the list).  I will
be completely out of action (no email) the first two weeks
of January, so there will be time for people to check for
problems/issues/etc.  I will check the revised draft and
send it to Lars with a request for RFC publication sometime
in the second half of January (probably during the week of
January 22nd).

Thanks,
--David

----------------------------------------------------
David L. Black, Senior Technologist
EMC Corporation, 176 South St., Hopkinton, MA  01748
+1 (508) 293-7953             FAX: +1 (508) 293-7786
black_david@emc.com        Mobile: +1 (978) 394-7754
----------------------------------------------------


_______________________________________________
Ips mailing list
Ips@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ips=20


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Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2007 11:36:18 -0800 (PST)
From: "Mallikarjun C." <cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ips] TMF text with updates
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Julian,=0A=0AYour primary concern appears to be around unpredictability of =
interactions between issuing and third-party sessions.=0A=0AIssuing and thi=
rd-party sessions can assume one of three values for TaskReporting: Legacy,=
 ResponseFence, FastAbort=0A=0AThat makes for 9 combinations of  issuing+th=
ird-party modes.  The homogeneous combinations (Legacy+Legacy, ResponseFenc=
e+ResponseFence, FastAbort+FastAbort) I assume are not what you are concern=
ed about.=0A=0AThat leaves us with 6 heterogeneous combinations of issuing+=
third-party modes.  AFAICT, the heterogeneous combinations appear benign as=
 well, but I am obviously missing something.  Of course, whenever ResponseF=
ence is not in effect, the inter-connection network skew could deliver the =
UAs on any iSCSI session for certain SCSI events (e.g. ACA) in an unpredict=
able order, but that is only to be expected (and that's what prompted us to=
 put in the notion of response fence).=0A=0AWhat would greatly help me is i=
f you could identify a specific heterogeneous combination, its unpredictabl=
e behavior with updated TMF text and the consequences of such unpredictabil=
ity that you think are undesirable.=0A=0AYour secondary concern appears to =
be around complexity.  As always, I would welcome any suggestions from you =
on that front as well.=0A=0AI'll wait until the end of this week before I p=
ublish an updated draft revision as David suggested.=0A=0AThanks!=0A=0AMall=
ikarjun=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: Julian Satran <Julia=
n_Satran@il.ibm.com>=0ATo: Mallikarjun C. <cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com>=0ACc: =
ips@ietf.org=0ASent: Monday, January 1, 2007 5:28:14 AM=0ASubject: Re: [Ips=
] TMF text with updates=0A=0A=0AMallikarjun, =0AMy reading was slightly dif=
ferent as bellow =0A=0A"Mallikarjun C." <cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com> wrote on=
 29/12/2006 23:42:09:=0A=0A> David and Julian,=0A> =0A> Just to be clear on=
 the semantics:=0A> =0A> "Fast abort" =3D early reporting of TMF completion=
 despite outstandingtransfers=0A> =0A> RFC 3720          Not allowed for is=
suing session, Not allowed for =0A> third-party sessions=0A> =0ARFC3270 pay=
s only lip-service to third party sessions (there is little you can do besi=
de it. =0A=0A> IG (Last Call):     =0A> FastMultiTaskAbort !=3DYes=0A>     =
                       Same as RFC3720 =0A=0AI would clarify/correct it to =
say that it is allowed for third party but I can go for your interpretation=
 =0A =0A> FastMultiTaskAbort =3DYes                         =0A>           =
                Allowed for issuing session, Allowed for =0A> third-party s=
essions =0A=0ASee above =0A=0A> Latest updates:  =0A> TaskReporting !=3DFas=
tAbort=0A>                            Not allowed for issuing session, Allo=
wed =0A> for third-party sessions =0A> TaskReporting=3DFastAbort=0A>       =
                    Allowed for issuing session, Allowed for =0A> third-par=
ty sessions =0A> =0A=0AIf the mechanics is TM then as soon as TM rsponses a=
re collected. =0A=0A> Before we sanction more combinations of legal behavio=
r, let us =0A> analyze why the last two combinations do not address the use=
 cases =0A> we are concerned about.  More combinations mean more complexity=
.....=0A> =0A> As far as Julian's reference to "target-scoped" queues, I as=
sume it =0A> is about the scope of a task set when TST=3D0.  IMHO, iSCSI ne=
eds to =0A> offer a reasonable processing model for this case with Clear Ta=
sk =0A> Set TMF as well as that of a Logical Reset TMF (which always affect=
s=0A> tasks from multiple initiators even if TST=3D1).  That is where the =
=0A> value of fast abort comes in.=0A> =0A=0AI agree except that I would sa=
y that the effects on initiators other than the issuing may be unexpected i=
f they use a mechanism with different semantics. =0A=0A> Mallikarjun=0A> =
=0A> =0A> =0A=0A> ----- Original Message ----=0A> From: "Black_David@emc.co=
m" <Black_David@emc.com>=0A> To: Julian_Satran@il.ibm.com=0A> Cc: ips@ietf.=
org=0A> Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 9:45:25 AM=0A> Subject: RE: [Ips] T=
MF text with updates=0A=0A> Julian, =0A>   =0A> I'm not sure I completely u=
nderstand what you wrote, but if you're =0A> suggesting that for a TMF that=
 affects tasks from multiple initiators: =0A> - Fast abort (early terminati=
on of data transfers) is used for the sending =0A>     initiator. =0A> - Th=
e existing 3270 abort mechanism is used with other initiators, with =0A>   =
  the update that the TMF response does not have to wait for data transfer =
=0A>     completion. =0A> I think that suggestion is reasonable, and it act=
ually helps with the use =0A> case that started this (3rd party initiator i=
s dead).  The draft text would =0A> need to change to allow this (right now=
 it mandates fast abort in all cases =0A> if the key is negotiated to suppo=
rt it) =0A>   =0A> I'm not sure how target-scoped queues enter into this. =
=0A>   =0A> Thanks, =0A> --David =0A> -------------------------------------=
--------------- =0A> David L. Black, Senior Technologist =0A> EMC Corporati=
on, 176 South St., Hopkinton, MA  01748 =0A> +1 (508) 293-7953             =
FAX: +1 (508) 293-7786 =0A> black_david@emc.com        Mobile: +1 (978) 394=
-7754 =0A> ---------------------------------------------------- =0A> =0A> F=
rom: Julian Satran [mailto:Julian_Satran@il.ibm.com] =0A> Sent: Friday, Dec=
ember 29, 2006 6:16 AM=0A> To: Black, David=0A> Cc: cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.co=
m; ips@ietf.org=0A> Subject: RE: [Ips] TMF text with updates=0A=0A> =0A> Da=
vid, =0A> =0A> My point was that we can solve the TM issue only for a singl=
e =0A> initiator. So besides puting the burden on SCSI to cleanly finish =
=0A> other and advise that fast solutions really work if there are no =0A> =
target scoped queues there is little we can do. And if we limit =0A> oursel=
ves to a single initiator the multiple TM solution is a =0A> simpler (and b=
asically does not deviate from 3270).  If you consider=0A> how software sta=
cks are layered I assume that some clever =0A> implementers have figured th=
at already (and did it). =0A> =0A> Regards, =0A> Julo =0A> =0A=0A> =0A> Bla=
ck_David@emc.com =0A> 28/12/06 21:54 =0A> =0A> To =0A> =0A> Julian Satran/H=
aifa/IBM@IBMIL, <cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com> =0A> =0A> cc =0A> =0A> <ips@ietf=
.org> =0A> =0A> Subject =0A> =0A> RE: [Ips] TMF text with updates =0A> =0A>=
 =0A> =0A> =0A> I agree with Julian that we should avoid discussing "buffer=
 allocations" and =0A> the like, even though we know that something like th=
at has to happen in at =0A> least iSER implementations.  A general discussi=
on of "resources" works. =0A>   =0A> > You could achive the same effect by =
issuing the TM command on =0A> every affected connection. =0A>   =0A> Not f=
or TMF's that affect commands from other initiators.  Also, asking the =0A>=
 target to coordinate receipt of the TM command on every connection in a =
=0A> multi-connection session is also a bit much. =0A>   =0A> > The third p=
arty story is even more puzzling as in order to negotiate any of=0A> > the =
new TM modes the taget will have to ascertain that all other initiators=0A>=
 > support it. I fail to understand how would you handle downgrading the mo=
de =0A> > for those that don't. =0A>   =0A> I think the target has to track=
 this initiator by initiator, and notissue the=0A> new async message to old=
 initiators.  This increases the importance of being =0A> able to complete =
a TMF in the face of an uncooperative third party "Legacy" =0A> initiator. =
=0A>   =0A> > And if you don't downgrade why not state that fast-abort and =
target scoped =0A> > queues don't go together and simplify the mechanics to=
 a multiple issue TM.=0A> This didn't parse for me - could you explain in m=
ore detail? =0A>   =0A> Thanks, =0A> --David =0A> -------------------------=
--------------------------- =0A> David L. Black, Senior Technologist =0A> E=
MC Corporation, 176 South St., Hopkinton, MA  01748 =0A> +1 (508) 293-7953 =
            FAX: +1 (508) 293-7786 =0A> black_david@emc.com        Mobile: =
+1 (978) 394-7754 =0A> ----------------------------------------------------=
 =0A> =0A> From: Julian Satran [mailto:Julian_Satran@il.ibm.com] =0A> Sent:=
 Thursday, December 28, 2006 5:32 AM=0A> To: Mallikarjun C.=0A> Cc: ips@iet=
f.org=0A> Subject: Re: [Ips] TMF text with updates=0A> =0A> =0A> Mallikarju=
n, =0A> =0A> I would consider the text: =0A> =0A> c. MUST leave all active =
"affected TTTs" (i.e. active TTTs =0A> associated with affected tasks) vali=
d along with any buffer =0A> allocations for the TTTs intact. =0A> =0A> som=
ewhat excessive as it relates too much to implementation. I would=0A> rathe=
r say: =0A> =0A> c. MUST leave all active "affected TTTs" (i.e. active TTTs=
 =0A> associated with affected tasks) valid. =0A> =0A> and leave the buffer=
 issue to the implementer (as I have stated =0A> already on this list). =0A=
> =0A> I also keep thinking (and mildly  objecting to) that the whole fast =
=0A> abort is excesively complex. =0A> =0A> You could achive the same effec=
t by issuing the TM command on every =0A> affected connection. =0A> The thi=
rd party story is even more puzzling as in order to negotiate=0A> any of th=
e nem TM modes the taget will have to ascertain that all =0A> other initiat=
ors support it. I fail to understand how would you =0A> handle downgrading =
the mode for those that don't. And if you don't =0A> downgrade why not stat=
e that fast-abort and target scoped queues =0A> don't go together and simpl=
ify the mechanics to a multiple issue TM. =0A> =0A> Thanks, =0A> Julo =0A=
=0A> =0A> "Mallikarjun C." <cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com> =0A> 28/12/06 06:41 =
=0A> =0A> To =0A> =0A> ips@ietf.org =0A> =0A> cc =0A> =0A> Subject =0A> =0A=
> [Ips] TMF text with updates =0A> =0A> =0A=0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> At=
tached is the latest text that incorporates David's proposed =0A> enhanceme=
nt.  Please review and comment.  Note especially two =0A> things: new secti=
on 4.1.4 that summarizes generic implementation =0A> considerations for bot=
h "clarified" and "updated" semantics, the =0A> changed text in 4.1.2 that =
says "MAY wait for ....target transfer =0A> tags.....from third-party initi=
ators" from the previous blanket MUST.=0A> =0A> Mallikarjun=0A> =0A> =0A> =
=0A> 4.1.2 Clarified multi-task abort semantics=0A> All iSCSI implementatio=
ns MUST support the protocol behavior defined=0A> in this section as the de=
fault behavior.  The execution of ABORT =0A> TASK SET, CLEAR TASK SET, LOGI=
CAL UNIT RESET, TARGET WARM RESET, and=0A> TARGET COLD RESET TMF Requests c=
onsists of the following sequence of=0A> actions in the specified order on =
the specified party. =0A> The initiator iSCSI layer:=0A> a. MUST continue t=
o respond to each TTT received for the affected tasks. =0A> b. Should recei=
ve any responses that the target may provide for some=0A> tasks among the a=
ffected tasks (may process them as usual because =0A> they are guaranteed t=
o have chronologically originated prior to the =0A> TMF response). =0A> c. =
Should receive the TMF Response concluding all the tasks in the =0A> set of=
 affected tasks. =0A> =0A> The target iSCSI layer:=0A> a. MUST wait for cur=
rently valid target transfer tags of the =0A> affected tasks from the issui=
ng initiator to be responded to.  MAY =0A> wait for responses on currently =
valid target transfer tags of the =0A> affected tasks from third-party init=
iators.=0A> b. MUST wait (concurrent with the wait in Step.a) for all comma=
nds =0A> of the affected tasks to be received based on the CmdSN ordering. =
  =0A> SHOULD NOT wait for new commands on third-party affected sessions - =
=0A> only the instantiated tasks have to be considered for the purpose of=
=0A> determining the affected tasks.  In the case of target-scoped =0A> req=
uests (i.e. TARGET WARM RESET and TARGET COLD RESET), all the =0A> commands=
 that are not yet received on the issuing session in the =0A> command strea=
m however can be considered to have been received with =0A> no command wait=
ing period - i.e. the entire CmdSN space up to the =0A> CmdSN of the task m=
anagement function can be "plugged".=0A> c. MUST propagate the TMF request =
to and receive the response from =0A> the target SCSI layer. =0A> d. MUST a=
ddress the Response Fence flag on the TMF Response on =0A> issuing session =
as defined in 3.3.2.=0A> e. MUST address the Response Fence flag on the fir=
st post-TMF =0A> Response on third-party sessions as defined in 3.3.2.  If =
some tasks=0A> originate from non-iSCSI I_T_L nexuses then the means by whi=
ch the =0A> target ensures that all affected tasks have returned their stat=
us to=0A> the initiator are defined by the specific non-iSCSI transport pro=
tocol(s).=0A> Implementation note: Technically, the TMF servicing is comple=
te in =0A> Step.d.  Data transfers corresponding to terminated tasks may =
=0A> however still be in progress on third-party iSCSI sessiosn even at =0A=
> the end of Step.e.  TMF Response MUST NOT be sent by the target =0A> iSCS=
I layer before the end of Step.d, and MAY be sent at the end of =0A> Step.d=
 despite these outstanding Data transfers until after Step.e.=0A> =0A> 4.1.=
3 Updated multi-task abort semantics=0A> Protocol behavior defined in this =
section MUST be implemented by all=0A> iSCSI implementations complying with=
 this document.  Protocol =0A> behavior defined in this section MUST be exh=
ibited by iSCSI =0A> implementations on an iSCSI session when they negotiat=
e the =0A> TaskReporting (section 9.1) key to =93FastAbort=94 on that sessi=
on.  The=0A> execution of ABORT TASK SET, CLEAR TASK SET, LOGICAL UNIT RESE=
T, =0A> TARGET WARM RESET, and TARGET COLD RESET TMF Requests consists of =
=0A> the following sequence of actions in the specified order on the =0A> s=
pecified party. =0A> The initiator iSCSI layer:=0A> a. MUST NOT send any mo=
re Data-Out PDUs for affected tasks on the =0A> issuing connection of the i=
ssuing iSCSI session once the TMF is sent=0A> to the target.=0A> b. Should =
receive any responses that the target may provide for some=0A> tasks among =
the affected tasks (may process them as usual because =0A> they are guarant=
eed to have chronologically originated prior to the =0A> TMF response).=0A>=
 c. MUST respond to Async Message PDU with AsyncEvent=3D5 as defined in=0A>=
 section 8.1.=0A> d. Should receive the TMF Response concluding all the tas=
ks in the =0A> set of affected tasks.=0A> =0A> The target iSCSI layer:=0A> =
a. MUST wait for all commands of the affected tasks to be received =0A> bas=
ed on the CmdSN ordering on the issuing session.  SHOULD NOT wait=0A> for n=
ew commands on third-party affected sessions - only the =0A> instantiated t=
asks have to be considered for the purpose of =0A> determining the affected=
 tasks.  In the case of target-scoped =0A> requests (i.e. TARGET WARM RESET=
 and TARGET COLD RESET), all the =0A> commands that are not yet received on=
 the issuing session in the =0A> command stream however can be considered t=
o have been received with =0A> no command waiting period - i.e. the entire =
CmdSN space up to the =0A> CmdSN of the task management function can be "pl=
ugged".=0A> b. MUST propagate the TMF request to and receive the response f=
rom =0A> the target SCSI layer. =0A> c. MUST leave all active "affected TTT=
s" (i.e. active TTTs =0A> associated with affected tasks) valid along with =
any buffer =0A> allocations for the TTTs intact.=0A> d. MUST generate an As=
ynchronous Message PDU with AsyncEvent=3D5 =0A> (section 8.1) on:=0A> i) ea=
ch connection of each third-party session that at least one =0A> affected t=
ask is allegiant to, and=0A> ii) each connection except the issuing connect=
ion of the issuing =0A> session that has at least one allegiant affected ta=
sk.=0A> If there are multiple affected LUs (say due to a target reset), the=
n=0A> one Async Message PDU MUST be sent for each such LU on each =0A> conn=
ection that has at least one allegiant affected task.=0A> e. MUST address t=
he Response Fence flag on the TMF Response on =0A> issuing session as defin=
ed in 3.3.2.=0A> f. MUST address the Response Fence flag on the first post-=
TMF =0A> Response on third-party sessions as defined in 3.3.2. If some task=
s =0A> originate from non-iSCSI I_T_L nexuses then the means by which the =
=0A> target ensures that all affected tasks have returned their status to=
=0A> the initiator are defined by the specific non-iSCSI transport protocol=
(s).=0A> g. MUST free up the affected TTTs (and STags, if applicable) and t=
he=0A> corresponding buffers once it receives the associated Nop-Out =0A> a=
cknowledgement that the initiator generated in response to the =0A> Async M=
essage.  =0A> Implementation note: Technically, the TMF servicing is comple=
te in =0A> Step.e.  Data transfers corresponding to terminated tasks may =
=0A> however still be in progress even at the end of Step.f.  TMF =0A> Resp=
onse MUST NOT be sent by the target iSCSI layer before the end =0A> of Step=
.e, and MAY be sent at the end of Step.e despite these =0A> outstanding Dat=
a transfers until Step.g.  Step.g specifies an event =0A> to free up any su=
ch resources that may have been reserved to support=0A> outstanding data tr=
ansfers.  =0A> 4.1.3.1 Clearing effects update=0A> Appendix F.1 of [RFC3720=
] specifies the clearing effects of target =0A> and LU resets on =93Incompl=
ete TTTs=94 as =93Y=94.  This meant that a target=0A> warm reset or a targe=
t cold reset or an LU reset would clear the =0A> active TTTs upon completio=
n.  The TaskReporting=3DFastAbort (section =0A> 9.1) semantics defined by t=
his section however do not guarantee that=0A> the active TTTs are cleared b=
y the end of the reset operations.  In =0A> fact, the new semantics are des=
igned to allow clearing the TTTs in a=0A> =93lazy=94 fashion after the TMF =
Response is delivered.  Thus, when =0A> TaskReporting=3DFastAbort is operat=
ional on a session, the clearing =0A> effects of reset operations on =93Inc=
omplete TTTs=94 is =93N=94.  =0A> 4.1.4 Implementation considerations=0A> B=
oth in clarified semantics (section 4.1.2) and updated semantics =0A> (sect=
ion 4.1.3), there may be outstanding data transfers even after =0A> the TMF=
 completion is reported on the issuing session.  In the case =0A> of iSCSI/=
iSER [iSER], these would be tagged data transfers for STags=0A> not owned b=
y any active tasks.  Whether or not real buffers support =0A> these data tr=
ansfers is implementation-dependent.  However, the data=0A> transfers logic=
ally MUST be silently discarded by the target iSCSI =0A> layer in all cases=
.  A target MAY, on an implementation-defined =0A> internal timeout, also c=
hoose to drop the connections on which it =0A> did not receive the expected=
 Data-out sequences (section 4.1.2) or =0A> Nop-Out acknowledgements (secti=
on 4.1.3) so as to reclaim the =0A> associated buffer, STag and TTT resourc=
es as appropriate.=0A> =0A> =0A> ----- Original Message ----=0A> From: "Bla=
ck_David@emc.com" <Black_David@emc.com>=0A> To: Black_David@emc.com; cb_mal=
likarjun@yahoo.com; ips@ietf.org=0A> Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2006 2:3=
3:43 PM=0A> Subject: RE: [Ips] Implementer's Guide - Task Management Issue=
=0A> =0A> =0A> > Let's try this line of reasoning - the target issues the N=
op-Out, now=0A> when=0A> > can it free the resources?  Answer:=0A> >     - =
The Nop-In response comes back, OR=0A> >     - The connection times out and=
 is torn down.=0A> > Now, what if the Nop-Out is not issued - what does the=
 target wait for=0A> to=0A> > free the resources?  Answer:=0A> >     - The =
transfers complete, OR=0A> >     - The connection times out and is torn dow=
n. =0A> > Those look similar enough at the target (the worst case is the sa=
me -=0A> the=0A> > resources are tied up until an uncooperative initiator t=
imes out) that=0A> > I don't see the harm in allowing the early TMF return =
without the new=0A> > key.  The clear distinction is that the first two bul=
lets are=0A> different;=0A> > if the new key is not negotiated, the target =
has to wait for the=0A> transfers=0A> > to complete; the new key and the No=
p-Out are necessary to walk away=0A> earlier=0A> > when the initiator invol=
ved is able to continue the transfers.=0A> =0A> That got slightly twisted -=
 what it should have talked about was the=0A> target=0A> issuing the new As=
ync Message and the Nop-Out response coming back.=0A> =0A> Thanks,=0A> --Da=
vid=0A> ----------------------------------------------------=0A> David L. B=
lack, Senior Technologist=0A> EMC Corporation, 176 South St., Hopkinton, MA=
  01748=0A> +1 (508) 293-7953             FAX: +1 (508) 293-7786=0A> black_=
david@emc.com        Mobile: +1 (978) 394-7754=0A> ------------------------=
----------------------------=0A> =0A> _____________________________________=
_____________=0A> Do You Yahoo!?=0A> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the be=
st spam protection around =0A> http://mail.yahoo.com =0A> =0A> ____________=
___________________________________=0A> Ips mailing list=0A> Ips@ietf.org=
=0A> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ips=0A=0A> ____________________=
___________________________=0A> Ips mailing list=0A> Ips@ietf.org=0A> https=
://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ips =0A> =0A> =0A> ______________________=
____________________________=0A> Do You Yahoo!?=0A> Tired of spam? Yahoo! M=
ail has the best spam protection around =0A> http://mail.yahoo.com ________=
_______________________________________=0A> Ips mailing list=0A> Ips@ietf.o=
rg=0A> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ips=0A=0A____________________=
______________________________=0ADo You Yahoo!?=0ATired of spam?  Yahoo! Ma=
il has the best spam protection around =0Ahttp://mail.yahoo.com 
--0-1074182379-1167766578=:56146
Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head><style type=3D"text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;} --></style></he=
ad><body><div style=3D"font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;=
font-size:12pt"><DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman=
, new york, times, serif">Julian,</DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FO=
NT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif">&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV sty=
le=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif=
">Your primary concern appears to be around unpredictability of interaction=
s between issuing and third-party sessions.</DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE=
: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif">&nbsp;</DIV>=
=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, t=
imes, serif">Issuing and third-party sessions can assume one of three value=
s for TaskReporting: Legacy, ResponseFence, FastAbort</DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D=
"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif">&nb=
sp;</DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, ne=
w york, times, serif">That makes for 9&nbsp;combinations of&nbsp; issuing+t=
hird-party modes.&nbsp; The homogeneous combinations (Legacy+Legacy, Respon=
seFence+ResponseFence, FastAbort+FastAbort) I assume are not what you are c=
oncerned about.</DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times n=
ew roman, new york, times, serif">&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 1=
2pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif">That leaves us w=
ith 6 heterogeneous combinations of issuing+third-party modes.&nbsp; AFAICT=
, the heterogeneous combinations appear benign as well, but I am obviously =
missing something.&nbsp; Of course, whenever ResponseFence is not in effect=
, the inter-connection network skew could deliver the UAs on&nbsp;any iSCSI=
&nbsp;session for certain SCSI events (e.g. ACA) in an unpredictable order,=
 but that is only to be expected (and that's what prompted us to put in the=
 notion of response fence).</DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAM=
ILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif">&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"=
FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif">What=
 would greatly help me is if you could identify a specific heterogeneous co=
mbination, its unpredictable behavior with updated TMF text and the consequ=
ences of such unpredictability that you think are undesirable.</DIV>=0A<DIV=
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, s=
erif">&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new =
roman, new york, times, serif">Your secondary concern appears to be around =
complexity.&nbsp; As always, I would welcome any suggestions from you on th=
at front as well.</DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times=
 new roman, new york, times, serif">&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE:=
 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif">I'll wait unti=
l the end of this week before I publish an updated draft revision as David =
suggested.</DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new ro=
man, new york, times, serif">&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; =
FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif">Thanks!</DIV>=0A<DIV =
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, se=
rif">&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new r=
oman, new york, times, serif">Mallikarjun</DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif"><BR><BR>&nbsp;<=
/DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new yo=
rk, times, serif">----- Original Message ----<BR>From: Julian Satran &lt;Ju=
lian_Satran@il.ibm.com&gt;<BR>To: Mallikarjun C. &lt;cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.c=
om&gt;<BR>Cc: ips@ietf.org<BR>Sent: Monday, January 1, 2007 5:28:14 AM<BR>S=
ubject: Re: [Ips] TMF text with updates<BR><BR><BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif =
size=3D2>Mallikarjun,</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>My readin=
g was slightly different as bellow</FONT> <BR><BR><TT><FONT size=3D2>"Malli=
karjun C." &lt;cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com&gt; wrote on 29/12/2006 23:42:09:<B=
R><BR>&gt; David and Julian,<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Just to be clear on the seman=
tics:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; "Fast abort" =3D early reporting of TMF completion d=
espite outstandingtransfers<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; RFC 3720 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp;Not allowed for issuing session, Not allowed for <BR>&gt; thir=
d-party sessions<BR>&gt; </FONT></TT><BR><TT><FONT size=3D2>RFC3270 pays on=
ly lip-service to third party
 sessions (there is little you can do beside it.</FONT></TT> <BR><TT><FONT =
size=3D2><BR>&gt; IG (Last Call): &nbsp; &nbsp; <BR>&gt; FastMultiTaskAbort=
 !=3DYes<BR>&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &n=
bsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Same as RFC3720</FONT></TT> <BR><BR>=
<TT><FONT size=3D2>I would clarify/correct it to say that it is allowed for=
 third party but I can go for your interpretation</FONT></TT> <BR><TT><FONT=
 size=3D2>&nbsp;<BR>&gt; FastMultiTaskAbort =3DYes &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; <BR>&gt; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbs=
p; &nbsp; Allowed for issuing session, Allowed for <BR>&gt; third-party ses=
sions </FONT></TT><BR><BR><TT><FONT size=3D2>See above</FONT></TT> <BR><TT>=
<FONT size=3D2><BR>&gt; Latest updates: &nbsp;<BR>&gt; TaskReporting !=3DFa=
stAbort<BR>&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
 &nbsp; &nbsp;Not allowed for issuing session, Allowed <BR>&gt; for third-p=
arty sessions <BR>&gt; TaskReporting=3DFastAbort<BR>&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbs=
p; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Al=
lowed for issuing session, Allowed for <BR>&gt; third-party sessions <BR>&g=
t; </FONT></TT><BR><BR><TT><FONT size=3D2>If the mechanics is TM then as so=
on as TM rsponses are collected.</FONT></TT> <BR><TT><FONT size=3D2><BR>&gt=
; Before we sanction more combinations of legal behavior, let us <BR>&gt; a=
nalyze why the last two combinations do not address the use cases <BR>&gt; =
we are concerned about. &nbsp;More combinations mean more complexity.....<B=
R>&gt; <BR>&gt; As far as Julian's reference to "target-scoped" queues, I a=
ssume it <BR>&gt; is about the scope of a task set when TST=3D0. &nbsp;IMHO=
, iSCSI needs to <BR>&gt; offer a reasonable processing model for this case=
 with Clear Task <BR>&gt; Set TMF as well as that of a Logical Reset TMF (w=
hich always
 affects<BR>&gt; tasks from multiple initiators even if TST=3D1). &nbsp;Tha=
t is where the <BR>&gt; value of fast abort comes in.<BR>&gt; </FONT></TT><=
BR><BR><TT><FONT size=3D2>I agree except that I would say that the effects =
on initiators other than the issuing may be unexpected if they use a mechan=
ism with different semantics.</FONT></TT> <BR><TT><FONT size=3D2><BR>&gt; M=
allikarjun<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR></FONT></TT><BR><TT><FONT size=3D2=
>&gt; ----- Original Message ----<BR>&gt; From: "Black_David@emc.com" &lt;B=
lack_David@emc.com&gt;<BR>&gt; To: Julian_Satran@il.ibm.com<BR>&gt; Cc: ips=
@ietf.org<BR>&gt; Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 9:45:25 AM<BR>&gt; Subjec=
t: RE: [Ips] TMF text with updates<BR></FONT></TT><BR><TT><FONT size=3D2>&g=
t; Julian,</FONT></TT> <BR><TT><FONT size=3D2>&gt; &nbsp;</FONT></TT> <BR><=
TT><FONT size=3D2>&gt; I'm not sure I completely understand what you wrote,=
 but if you're</FONT></TT> <BR><TT><FONT size=3D2>&gt; suggesting that for =
a TMF that affects tasks from
 multiple initiators:</FONT></TT> <BR><TT><FONT size=3D2>&gt; - Fast abort =
(early termination of data transfers) is used for the sending</FONT></TT> <=
BR><TT><FONT size=3D2>&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; initiator.</FONT></TT> <BR><TT><FO=
NT size=3D2>&gt; - The existing 3270 abort mechanism is used with other ini=
tiators, with</FONT></TT> <BR><TT><FONT size=3D2>&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; the upd=
ate that the TMF response does not have to wait for data transfer</FONT></T=
T> <BR><TT><FONT size=3D2>&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; completion.</FONT></TT> <BR><T=
T><FONT size=3D2>&gt; I think that suggestion is reasonable, and it actuall=
y helps with the use</FONT></TT> <BR><TT><FONT size=3D2>&gt; case that star=
ted this (3rd party initiator is dead). &nbsp;The draft text would</FONT></=
TT> <BR><TT><FONT size=3D2>&gt; need to change to allow this (right now it =
mandates fast abort in all cases</FONT></TT> <BR><TT><FONT size=3D2>&gt; if=
 the key is negotiated to support it)</FONT></TT> <BR><TT><FONT size=3D2>&g=
t; &nbsp;</FONT></TT>
 <BR><TT><FONT size=3D2>&gt; I'm not sure how target-scoped queues enter in=
to this.</FONT></TT> <BR><TT><FONT size=3D2>&gt; &nbsp;</FONT></TT> <BR><TT=
><FONT size=3D2>&gt; Thanks,</FONT></TT> <BR><TT><FONT size=3D2>&gt; --Davi=
d</FONT></TT> <BR><TT><FONT size=3D2>&gt; ---------------------------------=
------------------- <BR>&gt; David L. Black, Senior Technologist <BR>&gt; E=
MC Corporation, 176 South St., Hopkinton, MA &nbsp;01748 <BR>&gt; +1 (508) =
293-7953 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; FAX: +1 (508) 293-7786 <=
BR>&gt; black_david@emc.com &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Mobile: +1 (978) 394=
-7754 <BR>&gt; ---------------------------------------------------- </FONT>=
</TT><BR><TT><FONT size=3D2>&gt; <BR>&gt; From: Julian Satran [mailto:Julia=
n_Satran@il.ibm.com] <BR>&gt; Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 6:16 AM<BR>&g=
t; To: Black, David<BR>&gt; Cc: cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com; ips@ietf.org<BR>&=
gt; Subject: RE: [Ips] TMF text with updates<BR></FONT></TT><BR><TT><FONT s=
ize=3D2>&gt; <BR>&gt;
 David, <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; My point was that we can solve the TM issue only =
for a single <BR>&gt; initiator. So besides puting the burden on SCSI to cl=
eanly finish <BR>&gt; other and advise that fast solutions really work if t=
here are no <BR>&gt; target scoped queues there is little we can do. And if=
 we limit <BR>&gt; ourselves to a single initiator the multiple TM solution=
 is a <BR>&gt; simpler (and basically does not deviate from 3270). &nbsp;If=
 you consider<BR>&gt; how software stacks are layered I assume that some cl=
ever <BR>&gt; implementers have figured that already (and did it). <BR>&gt;=
 <BR>&gt; Regards, <BR>&gt; Julo <BR>&gt; <BR></FONT></TT><BR><TT><FONT siz=
e=3D2>&gt; <BR>&gt; Black_David@emc.com </FONT></TT><BR><TT><FONT size=3D2>=
&gt; 28/12/06 21:54 </FONT></TT><BR><TT><FONT size=3D2>&gt; <BR>&gt; To</FO=
NT></TT> <BR><TT><FONT size=3D2>&gt; <BR>&gt; Julian Satran/Haifa/IBM@IBMIL=
, &lt;cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com&gt; </FONT></TT><BR><TT><FONT size=3D2>&gt; =
<BR>&gt; cc</FONT></TT>
 <BR><TT><FONT size=3D2>&gt; <BR>&gt; &lt;ips@ietf.org&gt; </FONT></TT><BR>=
<TT><FONT size=3D2>&gt; <BR>&gt; Subject</FONT></TT> <BR><TT><FONT size=3D2=
>&gt; <BR>&gt; RE: [Ips] TMF text with updates</FONT></TT> <BR><TT><FONT si=
ze=3D2>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I agree with Julian that we=
 should avoid discussing "buffer allocations" and <BR>&gt; the like, even t=
hough we know that something like that has to happen in at <BR>&gt; least i=
SER implementations. &nbsp;A general discussion of "resources" works. <BR>&=
gt; &nbsp; <BR>&gt; &gt; You could achive the same effect by issuing the TM=
 command on <BR>&gt; every affected connection. <BR>&gt; &nbsp; <BR>&gt; No=
t for TMF's that affect commands from other initiators. &nbsp;Also, asking =
the <BR>&gt; target to coordinate receipt of the TM command on every connec=
tion in a <BR>&gt; multi-connection session is also a bit much. <BR>&gt; &n=
bsp; <BR>&gt; &gt; The third party story is even more puzzling as in order =
to negotiate any
 of<BR>&gt; &gt; the new TM modes the taget will have to ascertain that all=
 other initiators<BR>&gt; &gt; support it. I fail to understand how would y=
ou handle downgrading the mode <BR>&gt; &gt; for those that don't. <BR>&gt;=
 &nbsp; <BR>&gt; I think the target has to track this initiator by initiato=
r, and notissue the<BR>&gt; new async message to old initiators. &nbsp;This=
 increases the importance of being <BR>&gt; able to complete a TMF in the f=
ace of an uncooperative third party "Legacy" <BR>&gt; initiator. <BR>&gt; &=
nbsp; <BR>&gt; &gt; And if you don't downgrade why not state that fast-abor=
t and target scoped <BR>&gt; &gt; queues don't go together and simplify the=
 mechanics to a multiple issue TM.<BR>&gt; This didn't parse for me - could=
 you explain in more detail? <BR>&gt; &nbsp; <BR>&gt; Thanks, <BR>&gt; --Da=
vid </FONT></TT><BR><TT><FONT size=3D2>&gt; -------------------------------=
--------------------- <BR>&gt; David L. Black, Senior Technologist <BR>&gt;=
 EMC
 Corporation, 176 South St., Hopkinton, MA &nbsp;01748 <BR>&gt; +1 (508) 29=
3-7953 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; FAX: +1 (508) 293-7786 <BR=
>&gt; black_david@emc.com &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Mobile: +1 (978) 394-7=
754 <BR>&gt; ---------------------------------------------------- </FONT></=
TT><BR><TT><FONT size=3D2>&gt; <BR>&gt; From: Julian Satran [mailto:Julian_=
Satran@il.ibm.com] <BR>&gt; Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2006 5:32 AM<BR>&g=
t; To: Mallikarjun C.<BR>&gt; Cc: ips@ietf.org<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: [Ips] T=
MF text with updates<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Mallikarjun, <BR>&gt; <BR>&g=
t; I would consider the text: <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; c. MUST leave all active "a=
ffected TTTs" (i.e. active TTTs <BR>&gt; associated with affected tasks) va=
lid along with any buffer <BR>&gt; allocations for the TTTs intact. <BR>&gt=
; <BR>&gt; somewhat excessive as it relates too much to implementation. I w=
ould<BR>&gt; rather say: <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; c. MUST leave all active "affect=
ed TTTs" (i.e.
 active TTTs <BR>&gt; associated with affected tasks) valid. <BR>&gt; <BR>&=
gt; and leave the buffer issue to the implementer (as I have stated <BR>&gt=
; already on this list). <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I also keep thinking (and mildly=
 &nbsp;objecting to) that the whole fast <BR>&gt; abort is excesively compl=
ex. <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; You could achive the same effect by issuing the TM co=
mmand on every <BR>&gt; affected connection. <BR>&gt; The third party story=
 is even more puzzling as in order to negotiate<BR>&gt; any of the nem TM m=
odes the taget will have to ascertain that all <BR>&gt; other initiators su=
pport it. I fail to understand how would you <BR>&gt; handle downgrading th=
e mode for those that don't. And if you don't <BR>&gt; downgrade why not st=
ate that fast-abort and target scoped queues <BR>&gt; don't go together and=
 simplify the mechanics to a multiple issue TM. <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Thanks, <=
BR>&gt; Julo <BR></FONT></TT><BR><TT><FONT size=3D2>&gt; <BR>&gt; "Mallikar=
jun C."
 &lt;cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com&gt; </FONT></TT><BR><TT><FONT size=3D2>&gt; 2=
8/12/06 06:41 </FONT></TT><BR><TT><FONT size=3D2>&gt; <BR>&gt; To</FONT></T=
T> <BR><TT><FONT size=3D2>&gt; <BR>&gt; ips@ietf.org </FONT></TT><BR><TT><F=
ONT size=3D2>&gt; <BR>&gt; cc</FONT></TT> <BR><TT><FONT size=3D2>&gt; <BR>&=
gt; Subject</FONT></TT> <BR><TT><FONT size=3D2>&gt; <BR>&gt; [Ips] TMF text=
 with updates</FONT></TT> <BR><TT><FONT size=3D2>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR></FONT><=
/TT><BR><TT><FONT size=3D2>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt=
; Attached is the latest text that incorporates David's proposed <BR>&gt; e=
nhancement. &nbsp;Please review and comment. &nbsp;Note especially two <BR>=
&gt; things: new section 4.1.4 that summarizes generic implementation <BR>&=
gt; considerations for both "clarified" and "updated" semantics, the <BR>&g=
t; changed text in 4.1.2 that says "MAY wait for ....target transfer <BR>&g=
t; tags.....from third-party initiators" from the previous blanket MUST.<BR=
>&gt; <BR>&gt;
 Mallikarjun<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; 4.1.2 Clarified multi-task =
abort semantics<BR>&gt; All iSCSI implementations MUST support the protocol=
 behavior defined<BR>&gt; in this section as the default behavior. &nbsp;Th=
e execution of ABORT <BR>&gt; TASK SET, CLEAR TASK SET, LOGICAL UNIT RESET,=
 TARGET WARM RESET, and<BR>&gt; TARGET COLD RESET TMF Requests consists of =
the following sequence of<BR>&gt; actions in the specified order on the spe=
cified party. <BR>&gt; The initiator iSCSI layer:<BR>&gt; a. MUST continue =
to respond to each TTT received for the affected tasks. <BR>&gt; b. Should =
receive any responses that the target may provide for some<BR>&gt; tasks am=
ong the affected tasks (may process them as usual because <BR>&gt; they are=
 guaranteed to have chronologically originated prior to the <BR>&gt; TMF re=
sponse). <BR>&gt; c. Should receive the TMF Response concluding all the tas=
ks in the <BR>&gt; set of affected tasks. <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; The target iSCS=
I
 layer:<BR>&gt; a. MUST wait for currently valid target transfer tags of th=
e <BR>&gt; affected tasks from the issuing initiator to be responded to. &n=
bsp;MAY <BR>&gt; wait for responses on currently valid target transfer tags=
 of the <BR>&gt; affected tasks from third-party initiators.<BR>&gt; b. MUS=
T wait (concurrent with the wait in Step.a) for all commands <BR>&gt; of th=
e affected tasks to be received based on the CmdSN ordering. &nbsp; <BR>&gt=
; SHOULD NOT wait for new commands on third-party affected sessions - <BR>&=
gt; only the instantiated tasks have to be considered for the purpose of<BR=
>&gt; determining the affected tasks. &nbsp;In the case of target-scoped <B=
R>&gt; requests (i.e. TARGET WARM RESET and TARGET COLD RESET), all the <BR=
>&gt; commands that are not yet received on the issuing session in the <BR>=
&gt; command stream however can be considered to have been received with <B=
R>&gt; no command waiting period - i.e. the entire CmdSN space up to the <B=
R>&gt; CmdSN
 of the task management function can be "plugged".<BR>&gt; c. MUST propagat=
e the TMF request to and receive the response from <BR>&gt; the target SCSI=
 layer. <BR>&gt; d. MUST address the Response Fence flag on the TMF Respons=
e on <BR>&gt; issuing session as defined in 3.3.2.<BR>&gt; e. MUST address =
the Response Fence flag on the first post-TMF <BR>&gt; Response on third-pa=
rty sessions as defined in 3.3.2. &nbsp;If some tasks<BR>&gt; originate fro=
m non-iSCSI I_T_L nexuses then the means by which the <BR>&gt; target ensur=
es that all affected tasks have returned their status to<BR>&gt; the initia=
tor are defined by the specific non-iSCSI transport protocol(s).<BR>&gt; Im=
plementation note: Technically, the TMF servicing is complete in <BR>&gt; S=
tep.d. &nbsp;Data transfers corresponding to terminated tasks may <BR>&gt; =
however still be in progress on third-party iSCSI sessiosn even at <BR>&gt;=
 the end of Step.e. &nbsp;TMF Response MUST NOT be sent by the target <BR>&=
gt; iSCSI
 layer before the end of Step.d, and MAY be sent at the end of <BR>&gt; Ste=
p.d despite these outstanding Data transfers until after Step.e.<BR>&gt; <B=
R>&gt; 4.1.3 Updated multi-task abort semantics<BR>&gt; Protocol behavior d=
efined in this section MUST be implemented by all<BR>&gt; iSCSI implementat=
ions complying with this document. &nbsp;Protocol <BR>&gt; behavior defined=
 in this section MUST be exhibited by iSCSI <BR>&gt; implementations on an =
iSCSI session when they negotiate the <BR>&gt; TaskReporting (section 9.1) =
key to =93FastAbort=94 on that session. &nbsp;The<BR>&gt; execution of ABOR=
T TASK SET, CLEAR TASK SET, LOGICAL UNIT RESET, <BR>&gt; TARGET WARM RESET,=
 and TARGET COLD RESET TMF Requests consists of <BR>&gt; the following sequ=
ence of actions in the specified order on the <BR>&gt; specified party. <BR=
>&gt; The initiator iSCSI layer:<BR>&gt; a. MUST NOT send any more Data-Out=
 PDUs for affected tasks on the <BR>&gt; issuing connection of the issuing =
iSCSI session
 once the TMF is sent<BR>&gt; to the target.<BR>&gt; b. Should receive any =
responses that the target may provide for some<BR>&gt; tasks among the affe=
cted tasks (may process them as usual because <BR>&gt; they are guaranteed =
to have chronologically originated prior to the <BR>&gt; TMF response).<BR>=
&gt; c. MUST respond to Async Message PDU with AsyncEvent=3D5 as defined in=
<BR>&gt; section 8.1.<BR>&gt; d. Should receive the TMF Response concluding=
 all the tasks in the <BR>&gt; set of affected tasks.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; The =
target iSCSI layer:<BR>&gt; a. MUST wait for all commands of the affected t=
asks to be received <BR>&gt; based on the CmdSN ordering on the issuing ses=
sion. &nbsp;SHOULD NOT wait<BR>&gt; for new commands on third-party affecte=
d sessions - only the <BR>&gt; instantiated tasks have to be considered for=
 the purpose of <BR>&gt; determining the affected tasks. &nbsp;In the case =
of target-scoped <BR>&gt; requests (i.e. TARGET WARM RESET and TARGET COLD =
RESET), all the
 <BR>&gt; commands that are not yet received on the issuing session in the =
<BR>&gt; command stream however can be considered to have been received wit=
h <BR>&gt; no command waiting period - i.e. the entire CmdSN space up to th=
e <BR>&gt; CmdSN of the task management function can be "plugged".<BR>&gt; =
b. MUST propagate the TMF request to and receive the response from <BR>&gt;=
 the target SCSI layer. <BR>&gt; c. MUST leave all active "affected TTTs" (=
i.e. active TTTs <BR>&gt; associated with affected tasks) valid along with =
any buffer <BR>&gt; allocations for the TTTs intact.<BR>&gt; d. MUST genera=
te an Asynchronous Message PDU with AsyncEvent=3D5 <BR>&gt; (section 8.1) o=
n:<BR>&gt; i) each connection of each third-party session that at least one=
 <BR>&gt; affected task is allegiant to, and<BR>&gt; ii) each connection ex=
cept the issuing connection of the issuing <BR>&gt; session that has at lea=
st one allegiant affected task.<BR>&gt; If there are multiple affected LUs =
(say due to a
 target reset), then<BR>&gt; one Async Message PDU MUST be sent for each su=
ch LU on each <BR>&gt; connection that has at least one allegiant affected =
task.<BR>&gt; e. MUST address the Response Fence flag on the TMF Response o=
n <BR>&gt; issuing session as defined in 3.3.2.<BR>&gt; f. MUST address the=
 Response Fence flag on the first post-TMF <BR>&gt; Response on third-party=
 sessions as defined in 3.3.2. If some tasks <BR>&gt; originate from non-iS=
CSI I_T_L nexuses then the means by which the <BR>&gt; target ensures that =
all affected tasks have returned their status to<BR>&gt; the initiator are =
defined by the specific non-iSCSI transport protocol(s).<BR>&gt; g. MUST fr=
ee up the affected TTTs (and STags, if applicable) and the<BR>&gt; correspo=
nding buffers once it receives the associated Nop-Out <BR>&gt; acknowledgem=
ent that the initiator generated in response to the <BR>&gt; Async Message.=
 &nbsp;<BR>&gt; Implementation note: Technically, the TMF servicing is comp=
lete in
 <BR>&gt; Step.e. &nbsp;Data transfers corresponding to terminated tasks ma=
y <BR>&gt; however still be in progress even at the end of Step.f. &nbsp;TM=
F <BR>&gt; Response MUST NOT be sent by the target iSCSI layer before the e=
nd <BR>&gt; of Step.e, and MAY be sent at the end of Step.e despite these <=
BR>&gt; outstanding Data transfers until Step.g. &nbsp;Step.g specifies an =
event <BR>&gt; to free up any such resources that may have been reserved to=
 support<BR>&gt; outstanding data transfers. &nbsp;<BR>&gt; 4.1.3.1 Clearin=
g effects update<BR>&gt; Appendix F.1 of [RFC3720] specifies the clearing e=
ffects of target <BR>&gt; and LU resets on =93Incomplete TTTs=94 as =93Y=94=
. &nbsp;This meant that a target<BR>&gt; warm reset or a target cold reset =
or an LU reset would clear the <BR>&gt; active TTTs upon completion. &nbsp;=
The TaskReporting=3DFastAbort (section <BR>&gt; 9.1) semantics defined by t=
his section however do not guarantee that<BR>&gt; the active TTTs are clear=
ed by the end
 of the reset operations. &nbsp;In <BR>&gt; fact, the new semantics are des=
igned to allow clearing the TTTs in a<BR>&gt; =93lazy=94 fashion after the =
TMF Response is delivered. &nbsp;Thus, when <BR>&gt; TaskReporting=3DFastAb=
ort is operational on a session, the clearing <BR>&gt; effects of reset ope=
rations on =93Incomplete TTTs=94 is =93N=94. &nbsp;<BR>&gt; 4.1.4 Implement=
ation considerations<BR>&gt; Both in clarified semantics (section 4.1.2) an=
d updated semantics <BR>&gt; (section 4.1.3), there may be outstanding data=
 transfers even after <BR>&gt; the TMF completion is reported on the issuin=
g session. &nbsp;In the case <BR>&gt; of iSCSI/iSER [iSER], these would be =
tagged data transfers for STags<BR>&gt; not owned by any active tasks. &nbs=
p;Whether or not real buffers support <BR>&gt; these data transfers is impl=
ementation-dependent. &nbsp;However, the data<BR>&gt; transfers logically M=
UST be silently discarded by the target iSCSI <BR>&gt; layer in all cases. =
&nbsp;A target
 MAY, on an implementation-defined <BR>&gt; internal timeout, also choose t=
o drop the connections on which it <BR>&gt; did not receive the expected Da=
ta-out sequences (section 4.1.2) or <BR>&gt; Nop-Out acknowledgements (sect=
ion 4.1.3) so as to reclaim the <BR>&gt; associated buffer, STag and TTT re=
sources as appropriate.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; ----- Original Message --=
--<BR>&gt; From: "Black_David@emc.com" &lt;Black_David@emc.com&gt;<BR>&gt; =
To: Black_David@emc.com; cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com; ips@ietf.org<BR>&gt; Sen=
t: Wednesday, December 20, 2006 2:33:43 PM<BR>&gt; Subject: RE: [Ips] Imple=
menter's Guide - Task Management Issue<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Let's=
 try this line of reasoning - the target issues the Nop-Out, now<BR>&gt; wh=
en<BR>&gt; &gt; can it free the resources? &nbsp;Answer:<BR>&gt; &gt; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; - The Nop-In response comes back, OR<BR>&gt; &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; - =
The connection times out and is torn down.<BR>&gt; &gt; Now, what if the No=
p-Out is not
 issued - what does the target wait for<BR>&gt; to<BR>&gt; &gt; free the re=
sources? &nbsp;Answer:<BR>&gt; &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; - The transfers complete,=
 OR<BR>&gt; &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; - The connection times out and is torn down.=
 <BR>&gt; &gt; Those look similar enough at the target (the worst case is t=
he same -<BR>&gt; the<BR>&gt; &gt; resources are tied up until an uncoopera=
tive initiator times out) that<BR>&gt; &gt; I don't see the harm in allowin=
g the early TMF return without the new<BR>&gt; &gt; key. &nbsp;The clear di=
stinction is that the first two bullets are<BR>&gt; different;<BR>&gt; &gt;=
 if the new key is not negotiated, the target has to wait for the<BR>&gt; t=
ransfers<BR>&gt; &gt; to complete; the new key and the Nop-Out are necessar=
y to walk away<BR>&gt; earlier<BR>&gt; &gt; when the initiator involved is =
able to continue the transfers.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; That got slightly twisted =
- what it should have talked about was the<BR>&gt; target<BR>&gt; issuing t=
he new Async
 Message and the Nop-Out response coming back.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Thanks,<BR>=
&gt; --David<BR>&gt; ----------------------------------------------------<B=
R>&gt; David L. Black, Senior Technologist<BR>&gt; EMC Corporation, 176 Sou=
th St., Hopkinton, MA &nbsp;01748<BR>&gt; +1 (508) 293-7953 &nbsp; &nbsp; &=
nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; FAX: +1 (508) 293-7786<BR>&gt; black_david@emc.c=
om &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Mobile: +1 (978) 394-7754<BR>&gt; -----------=
-----------------------------------------<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; ________________=
__________________________________<BR>&gt; Do You Yahoo!?<BR>&gt; Tired of =
spam? &nbsp;Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around <BR>&gt; http:/=
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______<BR>&gt; Ips mailing list<BR>&gt; Ips@ietf.org<BR>&gt; https://www1.i=
etf.org/mailman/listinfo/ips<BR></FONT></TT><BR><TT><FONT size=3D2>&gt; ___=
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t;
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> <BR><TT><FONT size=3D2>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; ___________________________=
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From ips-bounces@ietf.org Wed Jan 03 12:05:49 2007
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Message-ID: <000301c72f59$59307050$01faa8c0@ivivity.com>
From: "Eddy Quicksall" <Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net>
To: <Black_David@emc.com>,
	<cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com>,
	<ips@ietf.org>
References: <F222151D3323874393F83102D614E055068B8AAB@CORPUSMX20A.corp.emc.com>
Subject: Re: [Ips] Re: iSCSI "compliance" text
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 12:05:19 -0500
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There are two problems I have with your response to the examples:

1) for hardware to check the ITT ... it would take a lot of logic. For 
software to check it, it can take an external memory reference which could 
be a performance hit. If an initiator is going to use a bad ITT it will 
probably have even worse bugs that the target can't detect. For example, 
what if it uses the wrong ITT in the original command ... the target can't 
detect that.
2) for the immediate data case, if the target can handle it then why should 
it take the time on every single I/O to make the check?

Also, note that I'm not saying the targets/initiators are discouraged from 
making checks ... in fact I already stated that during login, where 
performance is not an issue, that the target/initiator is encouraged to make 
checks.

All I'm asking for is some simple text that clarifies that it is up to the 
target or initiator as to if a check should be made when the spec has not 
spelled it out. If the spec says MUST then clearly the check must be made.

Eddy

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <Black_David@emc.com>
To: <cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com>; <ips@ietf.org>
Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2006 3:08 PM
Subject: RE: [Ips] Re: iSCSI "compliance" text


Eddy,

I think I agree with Mallikarjun on this.  If there is specific text
in RFC 3720 that says the recipient "MUST" check thus-and-such, we
could look at whether that check is really needed, and weaken the
text if it is not.  There's certainly nothing wrong with making the
checks - if the initiator "MUST" do <X>, then the target is entitled
to rely on <X> and complain if it isn't being done.  I hesitate to
discourage targets from making checks.  The two examples you cite:
- Initiator uses wrong ITT value on data
- Initiator sends immediate data when negotiation forbids it
are things that I think I'd prefer to have blow up in the initiator's
face sooner rather than later, as they could result in bad/wrong
data being stored if the target guesses wrong about how to compensate
for that initiator mistake.

Thanks,
--David
----------------------------------------------------
David L. Black, Senior Technologist
EMC Corporation, 176 South St., Hopkinton, MA  01748
+1 (508) 293-7953             FAX: +1 (508) 293-7786
black_david@emc.com        Mobile: +1 (978) 394-7754
----------------------------------------------------

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mallikarjun C. [mailto:cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com]
> Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2006 12:03 AM
> To: ips@ietf.org
> Subject: [Ips] Re: iSCSI "compliance" text
>
> Eddy,
>
> Even if we say it in the draft, it would be pretty generic
> and will have no mandatory force.  So I do not see a lot of
> value in attempting to state it in the draft.  Unless I get
> other inputs and/or advise from David and Lars, I prefer not
> to attempt to craft such a text.  I also suspect this is not
> a case peculiar to iSCSI protocol, so I would welcome inputs
> from other WG members.
>
> Mallikarjun
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Eddy Quicksall <Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net>
> To: ips@ietf.org
> Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2006 9:20:14 AM
> Subject: Fw: [Ips] ips WG Last Call: iSCSI Implementer's Guide
>
>
> Sorry, I forgot to send this original request to the list.
>
> What I'm thinking is to say this in the iSCSI Implementer's
> Guide, if it is
> not too late.
>
> One of the problems I'm faced with is that our customers will
> run 3rd party
> tests on a final product. If 3rd party test says "failed"
> then the customer
> takes that to its word. I have found that many people think
> that if the RFC
> says the initiator MUST then they think that means the target
> MUST check to
> see that the initiator obeyed the rule (and visa versa) ...
> some of the 3rd
> party tests are in that category.
>
> Eddy
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Mallikarjun C." <cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com>
> To: "Eddy Quicksall" <Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net>
> Cc: <black_david@emc.com>; "Julian Satran" <julian_satran@il.ibm.com>
> Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 6:55 PM
> Subject: Re: [Ips] ips WG Last Call: iSCSI Implementer's Guide
>
>
> I think I understand your question.  Generally, the IETF
> philosophy is to
> "be liberal in what you accept, be conservative in what you send" (my
> paraphrasing of it, anyway) - so if your target wants to be
> more forgiving,
> I think that should be alright.
>
> The UNH tests may be testing all MUST requirements - so in
> your immediate
> data example, the initiator must be held to this rule since
> it initiates the
> immediate data send.  On the target side, I see no harm in
> turning off those
> checks in your production code when you think you can
> gracefully deal even
> with a badly-behaving initiator.  On such occasions though,
> you should be
> sure to not flag SCSI protocol errors for those same iSCSI
> protocol errors
> that you had earlier forgiven.
>
> Hope that helps.
>
> Mallikarjun
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Eddy Quicksall <Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net>
> To: Mallikarjun C. <cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 4:17:37 AM
> Subject: Re: [Ips] ips WG Last Call: iSCSI Implementer's Guide
>
>
> I know it is really late to ask this but I was wondering if
> something could
> be done to relax some of the requirements for the target or
> initiator to
> check for correctness of the protocol? For example, it could
> be said that if
> the protocol error will not affect the operation of the
> device then it is
> not necessary to check for the error.
>
> I ask this because all of these checks during Full Feature
> Phase can cause
> unnecessary performance degradation due to a check on every
> command PDU even
> when the initiator or target have been previously qualified.
> This is off the
> top of my head but one such check that comes to mind is the
> check to be sure
> the ITT of data matches the ITT of the original command... we
> have hardware
> acceleration and different types of memory with different
> speeds. To cross
> check against the command requires saving additional information and
> accessing the slow memory (the fast memory is at a premium
> and can't store
> enough information). Another is the requirement for the
> target to check for
> immediate data received when immediate data was negotiated to
> no (if the
> target can deal with it and the initiator can't but the
> initiator negotiated
> it to no then the initiator should not send it anyway and
> there should be no
> need to make the checks on every command).
>
> Maybe some of these that I call "required checks" are
> actually the result of
> a test program (such as the UNH test program) putting on the
> "requirement".
> If so then a note in the guide may help to clear up that it
> is not an error
> for the initiator or target to double check the peer.
>
> I typed this kind of fast and I'm not a good linguist so if you don't
> understand then please let me know.
>
> Eddy
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Mallikarjun C." <cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com>
> To: <ips@ietf.org>
> Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 12:34 PM
> Subject: Re: [Ips] ips WG Last Call: iSCSI Implementer's Guide
>
>
> Lars,
>
> Thanks for the comments and sorry for the delay in getting back.
>
> As far as volunteers for reviewing, we could request the
> contributors at the
> end of the document to review.  David may have already
> reviewed, based on
> his comments.  Julian Satran had some offline feedback for me
> on TMF topics.
> As the editor of the document, I was sure that each of the topics were
> discussed in detail (or at least clearly noted) on the list before I
> included them in the doc.  Hope that gives you some reassurance.
>
> >whether it is merely the original text that can be
> >misunderstood or if there is a technical error in the original text.
> > (It already does in some cases.)
>
> Yes, I'd appreciate if you could point out where you think additional
> clarifications could help.
>
> > OK, so this document not only updates 3720, but also 3721, 3722 and
> > 3723? That needs to be stated in the document header and abstract.
> > (Also, 3721 needs to be normatively cited in this case.)
>
> We could.  My intent was to make it clear that this document prevails
> whenever a subtle interpretation in future of one of these
> RFCs differs from
> what's in this document.  Now that we are nearing the end of
> the work on
> this document, we could delete some although I personally am
> tempted to
> leave it this way....from what I can think of today though,
> this doc updates
> 3720 and 3721, but does not update 3722 and 3723.
>
> 3721 is not a standards-track RFC and I wasn't sure if it needs to be
> normatively cited as such.   But I could if that's the right
> thing to do.
>
> >Suggest to find a better title, because implementer's guides don't
> >typically update the base specification in a normative way. (Maybe
> > "iSCSI Corrections and Implementer's Guide" or something like that?)
>
> FIne by me.  How about "iSCSI Corrections, Clarifications,
> Additions and
> Implementation Guidance", or is it too long?  If it is, we
> could try "iSCSI
> Changes Based on Implementers' Experience" or something like it.
>
> > The specification of the fence mechanisms should use RFC2119 terms,
> > especially in Section 3.3.2.
>
> It actually does, with a MUST preceding the bulleted list....
>  As far as
> 3.3.1, I intentionally left the model description very
> generic with the hope
> that it can be incorporated into a future T10 spec verbatim.
>
> > Nit: s/mult/multi-/
>
> Done.
>
> > I'm not sure if "should receive" describes something that should be
> > started in RFC2119 language or not. If that is the intent, a better
> > phrasing should be found. (Also elsewhere in this document where the
> > same phrasing is used.)
>
> I left the "should"s intentionally in, because they really are the
> prerogatives of the initiator's run-time behavior, i.e.
> initiator may at his
> discretion choose to discard a message for some other reason (e.g. bad
> digest) beyond the 2119 protocol requirements.
>
> >Should the sentence starting with "SHOULD NOT" start a new item in
> > this list?
>
> No, I don't think so. This bullet is all about waiting for
> missing CmdSN's.
> It happens to have a different prescription for third-party affected
> sessions.
>
> >Remove text after "considerations" to not confuse IANA. May want
> > to add a note to the RFC Editor to remove this section upon
> >publication.
>
> Done.
>
> > Nit: Cited also as [RFC 3720], which confuses idnits. Remove the
> space
> > in the other citations.
>
> Done.
>
> >iSER    Not cited.
>
> It does now.
>
> > ID does not include the required 2119 boilerplate. Also, 2119 should
> > be cited normatively.
>
> Fixed now.
>
>
> Mallikarjun
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Lars Eggert <lars.eggert@netlab.nec.de>
> To: ips@ietf.org
> Sent: Friday, December 1, 2006 4:57:59 PM
> Subject: Re: [Ips] ips WG Last Call: iSCSI Implementer's Guide
>
>
> Summary: Minor revision needed to address editorial issues. Note: I'm
>    no iSCSI expert, so I cannot fully review the technical
>    recommendations made in this document. I'd like to see at least one
>    other review from someone who has the necessary background before
> this
>    document moves forward - volunteers?
>
>    Contains non-ASCII characters, boilerplate issues and other idnits.
>    Please fix. Header should indicate that this document updates 3720
>    and potentially other IDs (abstract already partially does - good!)
>
>    It would be good if this document would state for each item it
>    discusses, whether this is a clarification to the original
> RFCs or a
>    correction, i.e., whether it is merely the original text
> that can be
>    misunderstood or if there is a technical error in the
> original text.
>    (It already does in some cases.)
>
>
> INTRODUCTION, paragraph 1:
> >                         iSCSI Implementer's Guide
>
>    Suggest to find a better title, because implementer's guides don't
>    typically update the base specification in a normative way. (Maybe
>    "iSCSI Corrections and Implementer's Guide" or something
> like that?)
>
>
> Section 2, paragraph 2:
> >    iSCSI implementers are required to reference [RFC3722] and
> >    [RFC3723] in addition to [RFC3720] for mandatory requirements.
> >    In addition, [RFC3721] also contains useful information for
> >    iSCSI implementers.  The text in this document, however, updates
> >    and supersedes the text in all the noted RFCs whenever there is
> >    such a question.
>
>    OK, so this document not only updates 3720, but also 3721, 3722 and
>    3723? That needs to be stated in the document header and abstract.
>    (Also, 3721 needs to be normatively cited in this case.)
>
>
> Section 3.3, paragraph 0:
> > 3.3  SCSI Protocol Interface Model for Response Ordering
>
>    The specification of the fence mechanisms should use RFC2119 terms,
>    especially in Section 3.3.2.
>
>
> Section 3.3.3, paragraph 4:
> >      2. The TMF Response carrying the mult-task TMF Response on the
> >        issuing session.
>
>    Nit: s/mult/multi-/
>
>
> Section 4.1.2, paragraph 4:
> >      b. Should receive any responses that the target may provide
> >            for some tasks among the affected tasks (may process them
> >            as usual because they are guaranteed to have
> >            chronologically originated prior to the TMF response).
>
>    I'm not sure if "should receive" describes something that should be
>    started in RFC2119 language or not. If that is the intent, a better
>    phrasing should be found. (Also elsewhere in this document
> where the
>    same phrasing is used.)
>
>
> Section 4.1.2, paragraph 8:
> >      b. MUST wait (concurrent with the wait in Step.a) for all
> >            commands of the affected tasks to be received
> based on the
> >            CmdSN ordering.   SHOULD NOT wait for new commands on
> >            third-party affected sessions - only the instantiated
> tasks
> >            have to be considered for the purpose of determining the
> >            affected tasks.  In the case of target-scoped requests
> >            (i.e. TARGET WARM RESET and TARGET COLD RESET), all the
> >            commands that are not yet received on the issuing session
> >            in the command stream however can be considered to have
> >            been received with no command waiting period - i.e. the
> >            entire CmdSN space up to the CmdSN of the task management
> >            function can be "plugged".
>
>    Should the sentence starting with "SHOULD NOT" start a new item in
>    this list?
>
>
> Section 4.1.3, paragraph 8:
> >      a. MUST wait for all commands of the affected tasks to be
> >           received based on the CmdSN ordering on the issuing
> >           session.  SHOULD NOT wait for new commands on third-party
> >           affected sessions - only the instantiated tasks have to be
> >           considered for the purpose of determining the affected
> >           tasks.  In the case of target-scoped requests (i.e. TARGET
> >           WARM RESET and TARGET COLD RESET), all the commands that
> >           are not yet received on the issuing session in the command
> >           stream however can be considered to have been
> received with
> >           no command waiting period - i.e. the entire CmdSN space up
> >           to the CmdSN of the task management function can be
> >           "plugged".
>
>    Should the sentence starting with "SHOULD NOT" start a new item in
>    this list?
>
>
> Section 11, paragraph 1:
> >   This draft does not have any specific IANA considerations other
> than
> >   those already noted in [RFC3720].
>
>    Remove text after "considerations" to not confuse IANA. May want
>    to add a note to the RFC Editor to remove this section upon
> publication.
>
>
> Section 12.1, paragraph 1:
> >      [RFC3720] Satran, J., Meth, K., Sapuntzakis, C., Chadalapaka,
> >           M., and E. Zeidner, "Internet Small Computer Systems
> >           Interface (iSCSI)", RFC 3720, April 2004.
>
>    Nit: Cited also as [RFC 3720], which confuses idnits. Remove the
> space
>    in the other citations.
>
>
> Section 12.2, paragraph 1:
> >      [RFC3721] Bakke, M., Hafner, J., Hufferd, J., Voruganti, K.,
> >           and M. Krueger, "Internet Small Computer Systems Interface
> >           (iSCSI) Naming and Discovery", RFC 3721, April 2004.
>
>    See above, if this ID updates 3721, it needs to
> normatively cite it.
>
>
> Section 12.2, paragraph 2:
> >      [iSER] Ko, M., Chadalapaka, M., Elzur, U., Shah, H., Thaler,
> >           P., J. Hufferd, "iSCSI Extensions for RDMA", IETF
> >           Internet Draft draft-ietf-ips-iser-04.txt (work in
> >           progress),  June 2005.
>
>    Not cited.
>
>
> Section 12.2, paragraph 3:
> >      [RFC2119] Bradner, S. "Key Words for use in RFCs to Indicate
> >           Requirement Levels", BCP 14, RFC 2119, March 1997.
>
>    ID does not include the required 2119 boilerplate. Also,
> 2119 should
>    be cited normatively.
> _______________________________________________
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>
>
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From: "Eddy Quicksall" <Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net>
To: <ips@ietf.org>
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 14:59:48 -0500
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Subject: [Ips] Response Fence Flag
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Section 3.3.1 talks about a Response Fence Flag:

SCSI protocol layer instructs the SCSI transport layer of a=20
"Response Fence" associated with the response in question when=20
the "Send Command Complete" protocol data service (SAM-2, clause=20
5.4.2) ...

But I don't see any reference to that in SAM-2.

Is this strictly an iSCSI flag? Where is the flag specified?

Eddy
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</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Section 3.3.1 talks about a Response Fence =
Flag:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>SCSI protocol layer instructs the SCSI transport layer of a =
<BR>"Response=20
Fence" associated with the response in question when <BR>the "Send =
Command=20
Complete" protocol data service (SAM-2, clause <BR>5.4.2) ...</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>But I don't see any reference to that in =
SAM-2.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Is this strictly an iSCSI flag? Where is the flag=20
specified?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Eddy</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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_______________________________________________
Ips mailing list
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https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ips

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Subject: RE: [Ips] Response Fence Flag
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Thread-Topic: [Ips] Response Fence Flag
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If T10 agrees, T10 proposal 06-341 will add it to SAM-4.
 
-- 
Rob Elliott, elliott@hp.com 
Hewlett-Packard Industry Standard Server Storage Advanced Technology 
https://ecardfile.com/id/RobElliott 



  _____  

From: Eddy Quicksall [mailto:Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 2:00 PM
To: ips@ietf.org
Subject: [Ips] Response Fence Flag


Section 3.3.1 talks about a Response Fence Flag:
 
SCSI protocol layer instructs the SCSI transport layer of a 
"Response Fence" associated with the response in question when 
the "Send Command Complete" protocol data service (SAM-2, clause 
5.4.2) ...
 
But I don't see any reference to that in SAM-2.
 
Is this strictly an iSCSI flag? Where is the flag specified?
 
Eddy


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<HTML><HEAD>
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charset=3Dus-ascii">
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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D974315421-03012007>If T10 agrees, T10 proposal 06-341 will add =
it to=20
SAM-4.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D974315421-03012007></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D974315421-03012007><!-- Converted from text/rtf format -->
<P><SPAN lang=3Den-us><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>--</FONT></SPAN> =
<BR><SPAN=20
lang=3Den-us><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rob Elliott, =
elliott@hp.com</FONT></SPAN>=20
<BR><SPAN lang=3Den-us><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hewlett-Packard =
Industry Standard=20
Server Storage Advanced Technology</FONT></SPAN> <BR><SPAN =
lang=3Den-us><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"https://ecardfile.com/id/RobElliott">https://ecardfile.com/id/Rob=
Elliott</A></FONT></SPAN>=20
</P><BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>
  <HR tabIndex=3D-1>
  <FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> Eddy Quicksall=20
  [mailto:Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, =
January 03,=20
  2007 2:00 PM<BR><B>To:</B> ips@ietf.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> [Ips] =
Response=20
  Fence Flag<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Section 3.3.1 talks about a Response Fence=20
Flag:</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>SCSI protocol layer instructs the SCSI transport layer of a =
<BR>"Response=20
  Fence" associated with the response in question when <BR>the "Send =
Command=20
  Complete" protocol data service (SAM-2, clause <BR>5.4.2) ...</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>But I don't see any reference to that in =
SAM-2.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Is this strictly an iSCSI flag? Where is the flag=20
  specified?</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Eddy</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From for@amyjacobsen.com Wed Jan 03 16:57:58 2007
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From ips-bounces@ietf.org Wed Jan 03 17:16:26 2007
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Message-ID: <008601c72f84$c95296d0$01faa8c0@ivivity.com>
From: "Eddy Quicksall" <Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net>
To: "Elliott, Robert \(Server Storage\)" <Elliott@hp.com>,
	<ips@ietf.org>
References: <B8857D46D8618E48B51E0199BB9C26F3031F0BB5@cceexcsp04.americas.cpqcorp.net>
Subject: Re: [Ips] Response Fence Flag
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How do I get that? T10.org references it as "missing":

=20

      06-341r1
     SAM-4 Response Fence for protocol services
     Rob Elliott
     Missing
    =20

  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Elliott, Robert (Server Storage)=20
  To: ips@ietf.org=20
  Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 4:55 PM
  Subject: RE: [Ips] Response Fence Flag


  If T10 agrees, T10 proposal 06-341 will add it to SAM-4.

  --=20
  Rob Elliott, elliott@hp.com=20
  Hewlett-Packard Industry Standard Server Storage Advanced Technology=20
  https://ecardfile.com/id/RobElliott=20






-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
---
    From: Eddy Quicksall [mailto:Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net]=20
    Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 2:00 PM
    To: ips@ietf.org
    Subject: [Ips] Response Fence Flag


    Section 3.3.1 talks about a Response Fence Flag:

    SCSI protocol layer instructs the SCSI transport layer of a=20
    "Response Fence" associated with the response in question when=20
    the "Send Command Complete" protocol data service (SAM-2, clause=20
    5.4.2) ...

    But I don't see any reference to that in SAM-2.

    Is this strictly an iSCSI flag? Where is the flag specified?

    Eddy


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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT size=3D2>How do I get that? T10.org =
references it=20
as =93missing=94:<?xml:namespace prefix =3D o ns =3D=20
"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" =
/><o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p><FONT =
size=3D2>&nbsp;</FONT></o:p></SPAN></P>
<TABLE class=3DMsoNormalTable style=3D"mso-cellspacing: 1.5pt" =
cellPadding=3D0=20
border=3D0>
  <TBODY>
  <TR style=3D"mso-yfti-irow: 0; mso-yfti-firstrow: yes; =
mso-yfti-lastrow: yes">
    <TD=20
    style=3D"BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; PADDING-RIGHT: 0.75pt; BORDER-TOP: =
#ece9d8; PADDING-LEFT: 0.75pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: =
#ece9d8; PADDING-TOP: 0.75pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: =
transparent">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New =
Roman'">06-341r1<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></TD>
    <TD=20
    style=3D"BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; PADDING-RIGHT: 0.75pt; BORDER-TOP: =
#ece9d8; PADDING-LEFT: 0.75pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: =
#ece9d8; PADDING-TOP: 0.75pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: =
transparent">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'">SAM-4 =
Response=20
      Fence for protocol services<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></TD>
    <TD=20
    style=3D"BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; PADDING-RIGHT: 0.75pt; BORDER-TOP: =
#ece9d8; PADDING-LEFT: 0.75pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: =
#ece9d8; PADDING-TOP: 0.75pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: =
transparent">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'">Rob=20
      Elliott<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></TD>
    <TD=20
    style=3D"BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; PADDING-RIGHT: 0.75pt; BORDER-TOP: =
#ece9d8; PADDING-LEFT: 0.75pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: =
#ece9d8; PADDING-TOP: 0.75pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: =
transparent">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New =
Roman'">Missing<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3DElliott@hp.com href=3D"mailto:Elliott@hp.com">Elliott, =
Robert (Server=20
  Storage)</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=3Dips@ietf.org=20
  href=3D"mailto:ips@ietf.org">ips@ietf.org</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, January 03, =
2007 4:55=20
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: [Ips] Response =
Fence=20
  Flag</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
  class=3D974315421-03012007>If T10 agrees, T10 proposal 06-341 will add =
it to=20
  SAM-4.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
  class=3D974315421-03012007></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
  class=3D974315421-03012007><!-- Converted from text/rtf format -->
  <P><SPAN lang=3Den-us><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>--</FONT></SPAN> =
<BR><SPAN=20
  lang=3Den-us><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rob Elliott, <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:elliott@hp.com">elliott@hp.com</A></FONT></SPAN> =
<BR><SPAN=20
  lang=3Den-us><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hewlett-Packard Industry =
Standard Server=20
  Storage Advanced Technology</FONT></SPAN> <BR><SPAN lang=3Den-us><FONT =

  face=3DArial size=3D2><A=20
  =
href=3D"https://ecardfile.com/id/RobElliott">https://ecardfile.com/id/Rob=
Elliott</A></FONT></SPAN>=20
  </P><BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV><BR>
  <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
  style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr =
align=3Dleft>
    <HR tabIndex=3D-1>
    <FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> Eddy Quicksall=20
    [mailto:Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, =
January=20
    03, 2007 2:00 PM<BR><B>To:</B> ips@ietf.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> [Ips] =

    Response Fence Flag<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
    <DIV></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Section 3.3.1 talks about a Response Fence=20
    Flag:</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV>SCSI protocol layer instructs the SCSI transport layer of a=20
    <BR>"Response Fence" associated with the response in question when =
<BR>the=20
    "Send Command Complete" protocol data service (SAM-2, clause =
<BR>5.4.2)=20
    ...</DIV>
    <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT size=3D2>But I don't see any reference to that in=20
    SAM-2.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Is this strictly an iSCSI flag? Where is the =
flag=20
    specified?</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Eddy</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <P>
  <HR>

  <P></P>_______________________________________________<BR>Ips mailing=20
  =
list<BR>Ips@ietf.org<BR>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ips<BR></B=
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From ips-bounces@ietf.org Wed Jan 03 17:45:59 2007
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Thread-Topic: [Ips] Response Fence Flag
thread-index: AccvclHDNhdyvEmuS1aoDWtomSCtTAAD24WgAAE/FJA=
From: "Robert Snively" <rsnively@Brocade.COM>
To: "Elliott, Robert (Server Storage)" <Elliott@hp.com>,
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I need a little tutorial here.  Note that this is an architectural hack
that
is very "un-SCSI" and is not required if the response is qualified with
identification
information associated with the original request.  I know that such
qualification
exists for commands, but does it exist for task management requests in
iSCSI? =20
=20
I know that it does exist for parallel SCSI (which is strictly
interlocked)
and for SAS and Fibre Channel SCSI, making such "fences" unrequired by
those technologies.
=20
Note that Rob's previous revision of 06-341 is available on www.t10.org.
=20
I would hate to see such a hack creep into the SCSI architecture.
=20
Bob
=20

________________________________

From: Elliott, Robert (Server Storage) [mailto:Elliott@hp.com]=20
Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 1:56 PM
To: ips@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Ips] Response Fence Flag


If T10 agrees, T10 proposal 06-341 will add it to SAM-4.
=20
--=20
Rob Elliott, elliott@hp.com=20
Hewlett-Packard Industry Standard Server Storage Advanced Technology=20
https://ecardfile.com/id/RobElliott=20



________________________________

	From: Eddy Quicksall [mailto:Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net]=20
	Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 2:00 PM
	To: ips@ietf.org
	Subject: [Ips] Response Fence Flag
=09
=09
	Section 3.3.1 talks about a Response Fence Flag:
	=20
	SCSI protocol layer instructs the SCSI transport layer of a=20
	"Response Fence" associated with the response in question when=20
	the "Send Command Complete" protocol data service (SAM-2, clause

	5.4.2) ...
	=20
	But I don't see any reference to that in SAM-2.
	=20
	Is this strictly an iSCSI flag? Where is the flag specified?
	=20
	Eddy


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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dus-ascii">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.5730.11" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D364133022-03012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>I need a little tutorial here.&nbsp; Note that =
this is an=20
architectural hack that</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D364133022-03012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>is very "un-SCSI" and is not required if the =
response is=20
qualified with identification</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D364133022-03012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>information associated with the original =
request.&nbsp; I=20
know that such qualification</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D364133022-03012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>exists for commands, but does it exist for task =
management=20
requests in</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D364133022-03012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>iSCSI?&nbsp; </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D364133022-03012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D364133022-03012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>I know that it does exist for parallel SCSI =
(which is=20
strictly interlocked)</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D364133022-03012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>and for SAS and Fibre Channel SCSI, making such =
"fences"=20
unrequired by</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D364133022-03012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>those technologies.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D364133022-03012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D364133022-03012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Note that Rob's previous revision of 06-341 is =
available on=20
<A href=3D"http://www.t10.org">www.t10.org</A>.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D364133022-03012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D364133022-03012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>I would hate to see such a hack creep into the =
SCSI=20
architecture.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D364133022-03012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D364133022-03012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Bob</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D364133022-03012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV><BR>
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>
<HR tabIndex=3D-1>
<FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> Elliott, Robert (Server =
Storage)=20
[mailto:Elliott@hp.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, January 03, 2007 =
1:56=20
PM<BR><B>To:</B> ips@ietf.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: [Ips] Response =
Fence=20
Flag<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D974315421-03012007>If T10 agrees, T10 proposal 06-341 will add =
it to=20
SAM-4.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D974315421-03012007></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D974315421-03012007><!-- Converted from text/rtf format -->
<P><SPAN lang=3Den-us><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>--</FONT></SPAN> =
<BR><SPAN=20
lang=3Den-us><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rob Elliott, =
elliott@hp.com</FONT></SPAN>=20
<BR><SPAN lang=3Den-us><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hewlett-Packard =
Industry Standard=20
Server Storage Advanced Technology</FONT></SPAN> <BR><SPAN =
lang=3Den-us><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"https://ecardfile.com/id/RobElliott">https://ecardfile.com/id/Rob=
Elliott</A></FONT></SPAN>=20
</P><BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>
  <HR tabIndex=3D-1>
  <FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> Eddy Quicksall=20
  [mailto:Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, =
January 03,=20
  2007 2:00 PM<BR><B>To:</B> ips@ietf.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> [Ips] =
Response=20
  Fence Flag<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Section 3.3.1 talks about a Response Fence=20
Flag:</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>SCSI protocol layer instructs the SCSI transport layer of a =
<BR>"Response=20
  Fence" associated with the response in question when <BR>the "Send =
Command=20
  Complete" protocol data service (SAM-2, clause <BR>5.4.2) ...</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>But I don't see any reference to that in =
SAM-2.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Is this strictly an iSCSI flag? Where is the flag=20
  specified?</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Eddy</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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--===============0609579760==--




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From: "Elliott, Robert (Server Storage)" <Elliott@hp.com>
To: <ips@ietf.org>
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SAM-3 and SAM-4 require all transport protocols to tag the TMF responses
with the requests:

"Each SCSI transport protocol shall allow a Received Task Management
Function Executed confirming completion of the requested task to be
associated with the corresponding Send Task Management Request."

Although iSCSI was based on SAM-2, it complies with that rule. The Fence
concept is asking for more than that - it wants the target to be able to
ensure that all previous commands/TMFs are complete before delivering a
particular TMF response (e.g., for a LOGICAL UNIT RESET).  Since iSCSI
doesn't have ACKs, the target must wait for the next PDU from the initiator
with an updated ExpStatSN.

06-341r0 discussed an alternative - add a Delivery Result output to the Send
Command Complete and Task Management Function Executed confirmations (as
previously proposed in 04-072r0 for a different purpose). This would let the
device server/task manager wait for all the previous commands/TMF responses
to complete (be ACKed) before proceeding to make additional calls (e.g.,
Task Management Function Executed for a LOGICAL UNIT RESET).

However, iSCSI allows the target port to send a NOP-IN to force delivery of
a NOP-OUT with ExpStatSN, rather than passively wait for a PDU to show up.
The device server/task manager must instruct the target port when to do
this, and the Request Fence argument serves that purpose.  Target ports
using protocols without such a force mechanism are still OK - they will just
wait for protocol-specific delivery confirmations (e.g. ACKs).

-- 
Rob Elliott, elliott@hp.com 
Hewlett-Packard Industry Standard Server Storage Advanced Technology 
https://ecardfile.com/id/RobElliott 


 

  _____  

From: Robert Snively [mailto:rsnively@Brocade.COM] 
Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 4:46 PM
To: Elliott, Robert (Server Storage); ips@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Ips] Response Fence Flag


I need a little tutorial here.  Note that this is an architectural hack that
is very "un-SCSI" and is not required if the response is qualified with
identification
information associated with the original request.  I know that such
qualification
exists for commands, but does it exist for task management requests in
iSCSI?  
 
I know that it does exist for parallel SCSI (which is strictly interlocked)
and for SAS and Fibre Channel SCSI, making such "fences" unrequired by
those technologies.
 
Note that Rob's previous revision of 06-341 is available on www.t10.org.
 
I would hate to see such a hack creep into the SCSI architecture.
 
Bob
 

  _____  

From: Elliott, Robert (Server Storage) [mailto:Elliott@hp.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 1:56 PM
To: ips@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Ips] Response Fence Flag


If T10 agrees, T10 proposal 06-341 will add it to SAM-4.
 
-- 
Rob Elliott, elliott@hp.com 
Hewlett-Packard Industry Standard Server Storage Advanced Technology 
https://ecardfile.com/id/RobElliott 



  _____  

From: Eddy Quicksall [mailto:Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 2:00 PM
To: ips@ietf.org
Subject: [Ips] Response Fence Flag


Section 3.3.1 talks about a Response Fence Flag:
 
SCSI protocol layer instructs the SCSI transport layer of a 
"Response Fence" associated with the response in question when 
the "Send Command Complete" protocol data service (SAM-2, clause 
5.4.2) ...
 
But I don't see any reference to that in SAM-2.
 
Is this strictly an iSCSI flag? Where is the flag specified?
 
Eddy


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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>
<P align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial><FONT color=3D#0000ff><FONT =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D381195622-03012007>SAM-3 and SAM-4 require all transport =
protocols to tag=20
the TMF responses with the requests:</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></P>
<P align=3Dleft><FONT><FONT><SPAN =
class=3D381195622-03012007></SPAN><FONT=20
face=3DArial><FONT color=3D#0000ff><FONT size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D381195622-03012007>"</SPAN>Each SCSI transport protocol shall =
allow a=20
<B>Received Task Management Function Executed </B>confirming<SPAN=20
class=3D381195622-03012007> </SPAN>completion of the requested task to =
be=20
associated with the corresponding <B>Send Task Management =
Request</B>.<SPAN=20
class=3D381195622-03012007>"</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></P=
>
<P align=3Dleft><FONT><FONT><FONT face=3DArial><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff><FONT=20
size=3D2><SPAN class=3D381195622-03012007>Although iSCSI was based on =
SAM-2, it=20
complies with that rule. The Fence concept is asking for more than that =
- it=20
wants the target to be able to ensure that all previous commands/TMFs =
are=20
complete before delivering a particular TMF response (e.g., for a =
LOGICAL UNIT=20
RESET).&nbsp; Since iSCSI doesn't have ACKs, the target must wait for =
the next=20
PDU from the initiator with an updated=20
ExpStatSN.</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></P>
<P align=3Dleft><FONT><FONT><FONT face=3DArial><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff><FONT=20
size=3D2><SPAN class=3D381195622-03012007>06-341r0 discussed an =
alternative - add a=20
Delivery Resu</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT><FONT><FONT><FONT =

face=3DArial><FONT color=3D#0000ff><FONT size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D381195622-03012007>lt=20
output to the Send Command Complete and Task Management Function =
Executed=20
confirmations (as previously proposed in 04-072r0 for a different =
purpose). This=20
would let the device server/task manager&nbsp;wait for all&nbsp;the =
previous=20
commands/TMF responses to complete (be ACKed) before proceeding to make=20
additional calls (e.g., Task Management Function Executed for a LOGICAL =
UNIT=20
RESET).</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></P>
<P align=3Dleft><FONT><FONT><FONT face=3DArial><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff><FONT=20
size=3D2><SPAN class=3D381195622-03012007>However, iSCSI allows the =
target port to=20
send a NOP-IN to force delivery of a NOP-OUT with&nbsp;ExpStatSN, rather =
than=20
passively wait for a PDU to show up.&nbsp; The device server/task =
manager must=20
instruct the target port when to do this, and&nbsp;the Request Fence =
argument=20
serves that purpose.&nbsp; Target ports using protocols without such a =
force=20
mechanism are still OK - they will just wait for protocol-specific =
delivery=20
confirmations (e.g.=20
ACKs).</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT><FONT><FONT><FONT=20
face=3DArial><FONT color=3D#0000ff><FONT size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D381195622-03012007><!-- Converted from text/rtf format --></P>
<P><SPAN lang=3Den-us><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>--</FONT></SPAN> =
<BR><SPAN=20
lang=3Den-us><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rob Elliott, =
elliott@hp.com</FONT></SPAN>=20
<BR><SPAN lang=3Den-us><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hewlett-Packard =
Industry Standard=20
Server Storage Advanced Technology</FONT></SPAN> <BR><SPAN =
lang=3Den-us><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"https://ecardfile.com/id/RobElliott">https://ecardfile.com/id/Rob=
Elliott</A></FONT></SPAN>=20
</P>
<P =
align=3Dleft><BR></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</P></DI=
V>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>
  <HR tabIndex=3D-1>
  <FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> Robert Snively=20
  [mailto:rsnively@Brocade.COM] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, January 03, =
2007=20
  4:46 PM<BR><B>To:</B> Elliott, Robert (Server Storage);=20
  ips@ietf.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: [Ips] Response Fence=20
  Flag<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D364133022-03012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>I need a little tutorial here.&nbsp; Note =
that this is an=20
  architectural hack that</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D364133022-03012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>is very "un-SCSI" and is not required if the =
response is=20
  qualified with identification</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D364133022-03012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>information associated with the original =
request.&nbsp; I=20
  know that such qualification</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D364133022-03012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>exists for commands, but does it exist for =
task=20
  management requests in</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D364133022-03012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>iSCSI?&nbsp; </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D364133022-03012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D364133022-03012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>I know that it does exist for parallel SCSI =
(which is=20
  strictly interlocked)</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D364133022-03012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>and for SAS and Fibre Channel SCSI, making =
such "fences"=20
  unrequired by</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D364133022-03012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>those technologies.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D364133022-03012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D364133022-03012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Note that Rob's previous revision of 06-341 =
is available=20
  on <A href=3D"http://www.t10.org">www.t10.org</A>.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D364133022-03012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D364133022-03012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>I would hate to see such a hack creep into =
the SCSI=20
  architecture.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D364133022-03012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D364133022-03012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Bob</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D364133022-03012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV><BR>
  <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>
  <HR tabIndex=3D-1>
  <FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> Elliott, Robert (Server =
Storage)=20
  [mailto:Elliott@hp.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, January 03, 2007 =
1:56=20
  PM<BR><B>To:</B> ips@ietf.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: [Ips] Response =
Fence=20
  Flag<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
  class=3D974315421-03012007>If T10 agrees, T10 proposal 06-341 will add =
it to=20
  SAM-4.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
  class=3D974315421-03012007></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
  class=3D974315421-03012007><!-- Converted from text/rtf format -->
  <P><SPAN lang=3Den-us><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>--</FONT></SPAN> =
<BR><SPAN=20
  lang=3Den-us><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rob Elliott, =
elliott@hp.com</FONT></SPAN>=20
  <BR><SPAN lang=3Den-us><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hewlett-Packard =
Industry Standard=20
  Server Storage Advanced Technology</FONT></SPAN> <BR><SPAN =
lang=3Den-us><FONT=20
  face=3DArial size=3D2><A=20
  =
href=3D"https://ecardfile.com/id/RobElliott">https://ecardfile.com/id/Rob=
Elliott</A></FONT></SPAN>=20
  </P><BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV><BR>
  <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
  style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr =
align=3Dleft>
    <HR tabIndex=3D-1>
    <FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> Eddy Quicksall=20
    [mailto:Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, =
January=20
    03, 2007 2:00 PM<BR><B>To:</B> ips@ietf.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> [Ips] =

    Response Fence Flag<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
    <DIV></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Section 3.3.1 talks about a Response Fence=20
    Flag:</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV>SCSI protocol layer instructs the SCSI transport layer of a=20
    <BR>"Response Fence" associated with the response in question when =
<BR>the=20
    "Send Command Complete" protocol data service (SAM-2, clause =
<BR>5.4.2)=20
    ...</DIV>
    <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT size=3D2>But I don't see any reference to that in=20
    SAM-2.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Is this strictly an iSCSI flag? Where is the =
flag=20
    specified?</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT =
size=3D2>Eddy</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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Chad in anti-Sudan alliance  President Omar al-Bashir told state TV: "The g=
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The problem is that the definition of "previous" in this context is most
likely flawed.
=20
The "Response Fence" is merely an internal and untestable state machine
input that
attempts to order the transmission of responses in the target port's
queue.
It  does nothing to improve the overall ordering of the responses at the
application
client.
=20
Drivers for generic SCSI transports must always be aware that requested
operations
report completion with a more or less arbitrary time relationship to
each other and must be
designed to tolerate that. =20
=20
Using LOGICAL UNIT RESET as an example, the operation does not act only
on
the device server.  As it passes down through the initiator stack, it
may clean out
previously offered commands that have not yet been transported.  Then as
it
passes up through the target stack, it may clean out previously offered
commands
that have not yet been operated on.  As it passes through the device
server
execution path, it may clean out previously offered commands that have
begun
execution and some that have completed execution without yet responding.
As its=20
response passes back down the target stack, it may clean up commands
that have completed for which the response has not yet been transmitted,
and as
it passes back up the initiator stack, it may clean up commands for
which the
response has been transmitted, but not yet been made available to the
driver or
application.  SAM-4 attempts to define the passage through the target
port,
through the device server, and back to the target port.  However, beyond
the
initiator port is outside the SAM-4 scope, and even where it is defined,
the "shall ensure"s are unlikely to be testable and in some cases not
implementable.=20
=20
Will I sometimes get command complete indications for commands after
a LOGICAL UNIT RESET response is received?  You bet.  Response Fence
doesn't
change that.
=20
Will I sometimes get command aborted indications for commands after a=20
LOGICAL UNIT RESET is response is received?  You bet.  Response Fence
doesn't change that.
=20
Is this a problem?  It never has been in the past, why is it now?
=20
Can you test the corner conditions for a fence operation?  I doubt it.
The
existence of the "Response Fence" argument is internal to the target
implementation and invisible to testing.
=20
Bob
=20

________________________________

From: Elliott, Robert (Server Storage) [mailto:Elliott@hp.com]=20
Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 3:35 PM
To: ips@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Ips] Response Fence Flag



SAM-3 and SAM-4 require all transport protocols to tag the TMF responses
with the requests:

"Each SCSI transport protocol shall allow a Received Task Management
Function Executed confirming completion of the requested task to be
associated with the corresponding Send Task Management Request."

Although iSCSI was based on SAM-2, it complies with that rule. The Fence
concept is asking for more than that - it wants the target to be able to
ensure that all previous commands/TMFs are complete before delivering a
particular TMF response (e.g., for a LOGICAL UNIT RESET).  Since iSCSI
doesn't have ACKs, the target must wait for the next PDU from the
initiator with an updated ExpStatSN.

06-341r0 discussed an alternative - add a Delivery Result output to the
Send Command Complete and Task Management Function Executed
confirmations (as previously proposed in 04-072r0 for a different
purpose). This would let the device server/task manager wait for all the
previous commands/TMF responses to complete (be ACKed) before proceeding
to make additional calls (e.g., Task Management Function Executed for a
LOGICAL UNIT RESET).

However, iSCSI allows the target port to send a NOP-IN to force delivery
of a NOP-OUT with ExpStatSN, rather than passively wait for a PDU to
show up.  The device server/task manager must instruct the target port
when to do this, and the Request Fence argument serves that purpose.
Target ports using protocols without such a force mechanism are still OK
- they will just wait for protocol-specific delivery confirmations (e.g.
ACKs).

--=20
Rob Elliott, elliott@hp.com=20
Hewlett-Packard Industry Standard Server Storage Advanced Technology=20
https://ecardfile.com/id/RobElliott=20


=20

________________________________

	From: Robert Snively [mailto:rsnively@Brocade.COM]=20
	Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 4:46 PM
	To: Elliott, Robert (Server Storage); ips@ietf.org
	Subject: RE: [Ips] Response Fence Flag
=09
=09
	I need a little tutorial here.  Note that this is an
architectural hack that
	is very "un-SCSI" and is not required if the response is
qualified with identification
	information associated with the original request.  I know that
such qualification
	exists for commands, but does it exist for task management
requests in
	iSCSI? =20
	=20
	I know that it does exist for parallel SCSI (which is strictly
interlocked)
	and for SAS and Fibre Channel SCSI, making such "fences"
unrequired by
	those technologies.
	=20
	Note that Rob's previous revision of 06-341 is available on
www.t10.org.
	=20
	I would hate to see such a hack creep into the SCSI
architecture.
	=20
	Bob
	=20

________________________________

	From: Elliott, Robert (Server Storage) [mailto:Elliott@hp.com]=20
	Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 1:56 PM
	To: ips@ietf.org
	Subject: RE: [Ips] Response Fence Flag
=09
=09
	If T10 agrees, T10 proposal 06-341 will add it to SAM-4.
	=20
	--=20
	Rob Elliott, elliott@hp.com=20
	Hewlett-Packard Industry Standard Server Storage Advanced
Technology=20
	https://ecardfile.com/id/RobElliott=20



________________________________

		From: Eddy Quicksall
[mailto:Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net]=20
		Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 2:00 PM
		To: ips@ietf.org
		Subject: [Ips] Response Fence Flag
	=09
	=09
		Section 3.3.1 talks about a Response Fence Flag:
		=20
		SCSI protocol layer instructs the SCSI transport layer
of a=20
		"Response Fence" associated with the response in
question when=20
		the "Send Command Complete" protocol data service
(SAM-2, clause=20
		5.4.2) ...
		=20
		But I don't see any reference to that in SAM-2.
		=20
		Is this strictly an iSCSI flag? Where is the flag
specified?
		=20
		Eddy


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<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>The problem is that the definition of =
"previous" in this=20
context is most likely flawed.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>The&nbsp;"Response Fence" is merely an internal =
and=20
untestable state machine input that</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>attempts to order the transmission of =
responses&nbsp;in the=20
target port's queue.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>It&nbsp;</FONT></SPAN><SPAN=20
class=3D082204116-04012007>&nbsp;<FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>does=20
nothing to improve the overall ordering of the responses at the=20
application</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>client.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Drivers for generic SCSI transports must always =
be aware=20
that requested operations</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>report completion with a more or less arbitrary =
time=20
relationship to each other and must be</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>designed to tolerate that.&nbsp; =
</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Using LOGICAL UNIT RESET as an example, the =
operation does=20
not act only on</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>the device server.&nbsp; As it passes down =
through the=20
initiator stack, it may clean out</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>previously offered commands that have not yet =
been=20
transported.&nbsp; Then as it</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>passes up through the target stack, it may =
clean out=20
previously offered commands</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>that have not yet been operated on.&nbsp; As it =
passes=20
through the device server</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>execution path, it may clean out previously =
offered=20
commands that have begun</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>execution and&nbsp;some that have completed =
execution=20
without yet responding.&nbsp; As its </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>response passes back down the target stack, it =
may clean up=20
commands</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>that have completed for which the response has =
not yet been=20
transmitted, and as</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>it passes back up the initiator stack, it may =
clean up=20
commands for which the</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>response has been transmitted, but not yet been =
made=20
available to the driver or</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>application.&nbsp; SAM-4 attempts to define the =
passage=20
through the target port,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>through the device server, and back to the =
target=20
port.&nbsp; However, beyond the</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D2><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff><SPAN=20
class=3D082204116-04012007>initiator port is outside the SAM-4 scope, =
and even=20
where it is defined,</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D2><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff><SPAN=20
class=3D082204116-04012007>the "shall ensure"s are unlikely to be =
testable and in=20
some cases not implementable.</SPAN><SPAN=20
class=3D082204116-04012007>&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Will I sometimes get command complete =
indications for=20
commands after</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D2><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff><SPAN=20
class=3D082204116-04012007>a LOGICAL UNIT RESET response is =
received</SPAN><SPAN=20
class=3D082204116-04012007>?&nbsp; You bet.&nbsp;&nbsp;Response=20
Fence&nbsp;doesn't</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>change that.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Will I sometimes </FONT></SPAN><SPAN=20
class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>get command=20
aborted indications for commands </FONT></SPAN><SPAN=20
class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>after=20
</FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>a </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>LOGICAL UNIT RESET&nbsp;is response is =
received?&nbsp; You=20
bet.&nbsp; Response Fence</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>doesn't change that.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Is this a problem?&nbsp; It never =
</FONT></SPAN><SPAN=20
class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>has been in the=20
past, why is it now?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Can you test the corner conditions for a fence=20
operation?&nbsp; I doubt it.&nbsp; The</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>existence of the "Response Fence" argument is =
internal to=20
the target</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>implementation and invisible to=20
testing.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Bob</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV><BR>
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>
<HR tabIndex=3D-1>
<FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> Elliott, Robert (Server =
Storage)=20
[mailto:Elliott@hp.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, January 03, 2007 =
3:35=20
PM<BR><B>To:</B> ips@ietf.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: [Ips] Response =
Fence=20
Flag<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>
<P align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial><FONT color=3D#0000ff><FONT =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D381195622-03012007>SAM-3 and SAM-4 require all transport =
protocols to tag=20
the TMF responses with the requests:</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></P>
<P align=3Dleft><FONT size=3D+0><FONT size=3D+0><SPAN=20
class=3D381195622-03012007></SPAN><FONT face=3DArial><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff><FONT=20
size=3D2><SPAN class=3D381195622-03012007>"</SPAN>Each SCSI transport =
protocol shall=20
allow a <B>Received Task Management Function Executed =
</B>confirming<SPAN=20
class=3D381195622-03012007> </SPAN>completion of the requested task to =
be=20
associated with the corresponding <B>Send Task Management =
Request</B>.<SPAN=20
class=3D381195622-03012007>"</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></P=
>
<P align=3Dleft><FONT size=3D+0><FONT size=3D+0><FONT face=3DArial><FONT =

color=3D#0000ff><FONT size=3D2><SPAN class=3D381195622-03012007>Although =
iSCSI was=20
based on SAM-2, it complies with that rule. The Fence concept is asking =
for more=20
than that - it wants the target to be able to ensure that all previous=20
commands/TMFs are complete before delivering a particular TMF response =
(e.g.,=20
for a LOGICAL UNIT RESET).&nbsp; Since iSCSI doesn't have ACKs, the =
target must=20
wait for the next PDU from the initiator with an updated=20
ExpStatSN.</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></P>
<P align=3Dleft><FONT size=3D+0><FONT size=3D+0><FONT face=3DArial><FONT =

color=3D#0000ff><FONT size=3D2><SPAN class=3D381195622-03012007>06-341r0 =
discussed an=20
alternative - add a Delivery =
Resu</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT><FONT=20
size=3D+0><FONT size=3D+0><FONT face=3DArial><FONT color=3D#0000ff><FONT =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D381195622-03012007>lt output to the Send Command Complete and =
Task=20
Management Function Executed confirmations (as previously proposed in =
04-072r0=20
for a different purpose). This would let the device server/task=20
manager&nbsp;wait for all&nbsp;the previous commands/TMF responses to =
complete=20
(be ACKed) before proceeding to make additional calls (e.g., Task =
Management=20
Function Executed for a LOGICAL UNIT=20
RESET).</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></P>
<P align=3Dleft><FONT size=3D+0><FONT size=3D+0><FONT face=3DArial><FONT =

color=3D#0000ff><FONT size=3D2><SPAN class=3D381195622-03012007>However, =
iSCSI allows=20
the target port to send a NOP-IN to force delivery of a NOP-OUT=20
with&nbsp;ExpStatSN, rather than passively wait for a PDU to show =
up.&nbsp; The=20
device server/task manager must instruct the target port when to do =
this,=20
and&nbsp;the Request Fence argument serves that purpose.&nbsp; Target =
ports=20
using protocols without such a force mechanism are still OK - they will =
just=20
wait for protocol-specific delivery confirmations (e.g.=20
ACKs).</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT><FONT size=3D+0><FONT=20
size=3D+0><FONT face=3DArial><FONT color=3D#0000ff><FONT size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D381195622-03012007><!-- Converted from text/rtf format --></P>
<P><SPAN lang=3Den-us><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>--</FONT></SPAN> =
<BR><SPAN=20
lang=3Den-us><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rob Elliott, =
elliott@hp.com</FONT></SPAN>=20
<BR><SPAN lang=3Den-us><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hewlett-Packard =
Industry Standard=20
Server Storage Advanced Technology</FONT></SPAN> <BR><SPAN =
lang=3Den-us><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"https://ecardfile.com/id/RobElliott">https://ecardfile.com/id/Rob=
Elliott</A></FONT></SPAN>=20
</P>
<P =
align=3Dleft><BR></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</P></DI=
V>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>
  <HR tabIndex=3D-1>
  <FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> Robert Snively=20
  [mailto:rsnively@Brocade.COM] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, January 03, =
2007=20
  4:46 PM<BR><B>To:</B> Elliott, Robert (Server Storage);=20
  ips@ietf.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: [Ips] Response Fence=20
  Flag<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D364133022-03012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>I need a little tutorial here.&nbsp; Note =
that this is an=20
  architectural hack that</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D364133022-03012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>is very "un-SCSI" and is not required if the =
response is=20
  qualified with identification</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D364133022-03012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>information associated with the original =
request.&nbsp; I=20
  know that such qualification</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D364133022-03012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>exists for commands, but does it exist for =
task=20
  management requests in</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D364133022-03012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>iSCSI?&nbsp; </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D364133022-03012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D364133022-03012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>I know that it does exist for parallel SCSI =
(which is=20
  strictly interlocked)</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D364133022-03012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>and for SAS and Fibre Channel SCSI, making =
such "fences"=20
  unrequired by</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D364133022-03012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>those technologies.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D364133022-03012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D364133022-03012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Note that Rob's previous revision of 06-341 =
is available=20
  on <A href=3D"http://www.t10.org">www.t10.org</A>.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D364133022-03012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D364133022-03012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>I would hate to see such a hack creep into =
the SCSI=20
  architecture.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D364133022-03012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D364133022-03012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Bob</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D364133022-03012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV><BR>
  <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>
  <HR tabIndex=3D-1>
  <FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> Elliott, Robert (Server =
Storage)=20
  [mailto:Elliott@hp.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, January 03, 2007 =
1:56=20
  PM<BR><B>To:</B> ips@ietf.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: [Ips] Response =
Fence=20
  Flag<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
  class=3D974315421-03012007>If T10 agrees, T10 proposal 06-341 will add =
it to=20
  SAM-4.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
  class=3D974315421-03012007></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
  class=3D974315421-03012007><!-- Converted from text/rtf format -->
  <P><SPAN lang=3Den-us><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>--</FONT></SPAN> =
<BR><SPAN=20
  lang=3Den-us><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rob Elliott, =
elliott@hp.com</FONT></SPAN>=20
  <BR><SPAN lang=3Den-us><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hewlett-Packard =
Industry Standard=20
  Server Storage Advanced Technology</FONT></SPAN> <BR><SPAN =
lang=3Den-us><FONT=20
  face=3DArial size=3D2><A=20
  =
href=3D"https://ecardfile.com/id/RobElliott">https://ecardfile.com/id/Rob=
Elliott</A></FONT></SPAN>=20
  </P><BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV><BR>
  <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
  style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr =
align=3Dleft>
    <HR tabIndex=3D-1>
    <FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> Eddy Quicksall=20
    [mailto:Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, =
January=20
    03, 2007 2:00 PM<BR><B>To:</B> ips@ietf.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> [Ips] =

    Response Fence Flag<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
    <DIV></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Section 3.3.1 talks about a Response Fence=20
    Flag:</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV>SCSI protocol layer instructs the SCSI transport layer of a=20
    <BR>"Response Fence" associated with the response in question when =
<BR>the=20
    "Send Command Complete" protocol data service (SAM-2, clause =
<BR>5.4.2)=20
    ...</DIV>
    <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT size=3D2>But I don't see any reference to that in=20
    SAM-2.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Is this strictly an iSCSI flag? Where is the =
flag=20
    specified?</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT =
size=3D2>Eddy</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 11:10:19 -0800 (PST)
From: "Mallikarjun C." <cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ips] Response Fence Flag
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Bob,=0A=0AResponse Fence prompts an end-to-end acknowledgement, it is not "=
merely an internal" artifact with no consequence.  This e2e ack can happen =
in a SCSI transport protocol specific way.=0A=0AResponse ordering is an iss=
ue for a very small % of task/TMF responses on a multi-connection iSCSI ses=
sion, due to the network skew between the different connections participati=
ng in one I_T nexus.  IPS WG discussed this during the Dallas IETF and subs=
equently on the mailing list, there is already consensus that it is an issu=
e.  I also understand that iSCSI is not alone here.=0A=0APlease see the con=
ference proceedings slides from the Dallas IETF for additional information:=
=0Ahttp://www3.ietf.org/proceedings/06mar/slides/ips-0.pdf=0A=0ASection 3.3=
 of http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ips-iscsi-impl-guide-03.=
txt discusses the semantics and section 3.3.3 lists specific cases that we =
know of today that require such a response ordering.  Section 3.3.2 defines=
 what the "transport protocol specific" way to realize e2e ack for iSCSI is=
.=0A=0AIf you would like to chat offline, feel free to give Rob or myself a=
 call.=0A=0AThanks.=0A=0AMallikarjun=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0A=
From: Robert Snively <rsnively@Brocade.COM>=0ATo: "Elliott, Robert (Server =
Storage)" <Elliott@hp.com>; ips@ietf.org=0ASent: Thursday, January 4, 2007 =
10:01:36 AM=0ASubject: RE: [Ips] Response Fence Flag=0A=0A=0AThe problem is=
 that the definition of "previous" in this context is most likely flawed.=
=0A =0AThe "Response Fence" is merely an internal and untestable state mach=
ine input that=0Aattempts to order the transmission of responses in the tar=
get port's queue.=0AIt  does nothing to improve the overall ordering of the=
 responses at the application=0Aclient.=0A =0ADrivers for generic SCSI tran=
sports must always be aware that requested operations=0Areport completion w=
ith a more or less arbitrary time relationship to each other and must be=0A=
designed to tolerate that.  =0A =0AUsing LOGICAL UNIT RESET as an example, =
the operation does not act only on=0Athe device server.  As it passes down =
through the initiator stack, it may clean out=0Apreviously offered commands=
 that have not yet been transported.  Then as it=0Apasses up through the ta=
rget stack, it may clean out previously offered commands=0Athat have not ye=
t been operated on.  As it passes through the device server=0Aexecution pat=
h, it may clean out previously offered commands that have begun=0Aexecution=
 and some that have completed execution without yet responding.  As its =0A=
response passes back down the target stack, it may clean up commands=0Athat=
 have completed for which the response has not yet been transmitted, and as=
=0Ait passes back up the initiator stack, it may clean up commands for whic=
h the=0Aresponse has been transmitted, but not yet been made available to t=
he driver or=0Aapplication.  SAM-4 attempts to define the passage through t=
he target port,=0Athrough the device server, and back to the target port.  =
However, beyond the=0Ainitiator port is outside the SAM-4 scope, and even w=
here it is defined,=0Athe "shall ensure"s are unlikely to be testable and i=
n some cases not implementable. =0A =0AWill I sometimes get command complet=
e indications for commands after=0Aa LOGICAL UNIT RESET response is receive=
d?  You bet.  Response Fence doesn't=0Achange that.=0A =0AWill I sometimes =
get command aborted indications for commands after a =0ALOGICAL UNIT RESET =
is response is received?  You bet.  Response Fence=0Adoesn't change that.=
=0A =0AIs this a problem?  It never has been in the past, why is it now?=0A=
 =0ACan you test the corner conditions for a fence operation?  I doubt it. =
 The=0Aexistence of the "Response Fence" argument is internal to the target=
=0Aimplementation and invisible to testing.=0A =0ABob=0A =0A=0A=0A=0A=0AFro=
m: Elliott, Robert (Server Storage) [mailto:Elliott@hp.com] =0ASent: Wednes=
day, January 03, 2007 3:35 PM=0ATo: ips@ietf.org=0ASubject: RE: [Ips] Respo=
nse Fence Flag=0A=0A=0ASAM-3 and SAM-4 require all transport protocols to t=
ag the TMF responses with the requests:=0A"Each SCSI transport protocol sha=
ll allow a Received Task Management Function Executed confirming completion=
 of the requested task to be associated with the corresponding Send Task Ma=
nagement Request."=0AAlthough iSCSI was based on SAM-2, it complies with th=
at rule. The Fence concept is asking for more than that - it wants the targ=
et to be able to ensure that all previous commands/TMFs are complete before=
 delivering a particular TMF response (e.g., for a LOGICAL UNIT RESET).  Si=
nce iSCSI doesn't have ACKs, the target must wait for the next PDU from the=
 initiator with an updated ExpStatSN.=0A06-341r0 discussed an alternative -=
 add a Delivery Result output to the Send Command Complete and Task Managem=
ent Function Executed confirmations (as previously proposed in 04-072r0 for=
 a different purpose). This would let the device server/task manager wait f=
or all the previous commands/TMF responses to complete (be ACKed) before pr=
oceeding to make additional calls (e.g., Task Management Function Executed =
for a LOGICAL UNIT RESET).=0AHowever, iSCSI allows the target port to send =
a NOP-IN to force delivery of a NOP-OUT with ExpStatSN, rather than passive=
ly wait for a PDU to show up.  The device server/task manager must instruct=
 the target port when to do this, and the Request Fence argument serves tha=
t purpose.  Target ports using protocols without such a force mechanism are=
 still OK - they will just wait for protocol-specific delivery confirmation=
s (e.g. ACKs).=0A-- =0ARob Elliott, elliott@hp.com =0AHewlett-Packard Indus=
try Standard Server Storage Advanced Technology =0Ahttps://ecardfile.com/id=
/RobElliott =0A=0A =0A=0A=0AFrom: Robert Snively [mailto:rsnively@Brocade.C=
OM] =0ASent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 4:46 PM=0ATo: Elliott, Robert (Ser=
ver Storage); ips@ietf.org=0ASubject: RE: [Ips] Response Fence Flag=0A=0A=
=0AI need a little tutorial here.  Note that this is an architectural hack =
that=0Ais very "un-SCSI" and is not required if the response is qualified w=
ith identification=0Ainformation associated with the original request.  I k=
now that such qualification=0Aexists for commands, but does it exist for ta=
sk management requests in=0AiSCSI?  =0A =0AI know that it does exist for pa=
rallel SCSI (which is strictly interlocked)=0Aand for SAS and Fibre Channel=
 SCSI, making such "fences" unrequired by=0Athose technologies.=0A =0ANote =
that Rob's previous revision of 06-341 is available on www.t10.org.=0A =0AI=
 would hate to see such a hack creep into the SCSI architecture.=0A =0ABob=
=0A =0A=0A=0A=0A=0AFrom: Elliott, Robert (Server Storage) [mailto:Elliott@h=
p.com] =0ASent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 1:56 PM=0ATo: ips@ietf.org=0ASu=
bject: RE: [Ips] Response Fence Flag=0A=0A=0AIf T10 agrees, T10 proposal 06=
-341 will add it to SAM-4.=0A =0A-- =0ARob Elliott, elliott@hp.com =0AHewle=
tt-Packard Industry Standard Server Storage Advanced Technology =0Ahttps://=
ecardfile.com/id/RobElliott =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AFrom: Eddy Quicksall [mail=
to:Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net] =0ASent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 2:00=
 PM=0ATo: ips@ietf.org=0ASubject: [Ips] Response Fence Flag=0A=0A=0ASection=
 3.3.1 talks about a Response Fence Flag:=0A =0ASCSI protocol layer instruc=
ts the SCSI transport layer of a =0A"Response Fence" associated with the re=
sponse in question when =0Athe "Send Command Complete" protocol data servic=
e (SAM-2, clause =0A5.4.2) ...=0A =0ABut I don't see any reference to that =
in SAM-2.=0A =0AIs this strictly an iSCSI flag? Where is the flag specified=
?=0A =0AEddy=0A_______________________________________________=0AIps mailin=
g list=0AIps@ietf.org=0Ahttps://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ips=0A=0A___=
_______________________________________________=0ADo You Yahoo!?=0ATired of=
 spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around =0Ahttp://mail.yaho=
o.com 
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<html><head><style type=3D"text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;} --></style></he=
ad><body><div style=3D"font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;=
font-size:12pt"><DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman=
, new york, times, serif">Bob,</DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-=
FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif">&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV style=
=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif">=
Response Fence prompts an end-to-end acknowledgement, it is not "merely an =
internal" artifact with no consequence.&nbsp; This e2e ack can happen in a =
SCSI transport protocol specific way.</DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt=
; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif">&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV=
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, s=
erif">Response ordering is an issue for a very small % of task/TMF response=
s on a multi-connection iSCSI&nbsp;session, due to the network skew between=
 the different connections participating in one I_T nexus.&nbsp;&nbsp;IPS W=
G discussed this during the Dallas IETF and subsequently on the mailing lis=
t, there is already consensus that it is an issue.&nbsp; I also understand =
that iSCSI is not alone here.</DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-F=
AMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif">&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV style=
=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif">=
Please see the conference proceedings slides from the Dallas IETF for addit=
ional information:</DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: time=
s new roman, new york, times, serif"><A href=3D"http://www3.ietf.org/procee=
dings/06mar/slides/ips-0.pdf">http://www3.ietf.org/proceedings/06mar/slides=
/ips-0.pdf</A></DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times ne=
w roman, new york, times, serif">&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12=
pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif">Section 3.3 of <A=
 href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ips-iscsi-impl-guid=
e-03.txt">http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ips-iscsi-impl-gui=
de-03.txt</A>&nbsp;discusses the&nbsp;semantics and section 3.3.3 lists spe=
cific cases that we know of today that require such a response ordering.&nb=
sp; Section 3.3.2 defines what the "transport protocol specific" way to rea=
lize e2e ack for iSCSI is.</DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMI=
LY: times new roman, new york, times, serif">&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"F=
ONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif">If yo=
u would like to chat offline, feel free to give Rob or myself a call.</DIV>=
=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, t=
imes, serif">&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: tim=
es new roman, new york, times, serif">Thanks.</DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SI=
ZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif">&nbsp;</DIV=
>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, =
times, serif">Mallikarjun<BR><BR></DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FO=
NT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif">----- Original Message =
----<BR>From: Robert Snively &lt;rsnively@Brocade.COM&gt;<BR>To: "Elliott, =
Robert (Server Storage)" &lt;Elliott@hp.com&gt;; ips@ietf.org<BR>Sent: Thur=
sday, January 4, 2007 10:01:36 AM<BR>Subject: RE: [Ips] Response Fence Flag=
<BR><BR>=0A<STYLE></STYLE>=0A=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D0=
82204116-04012007><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>The problem i=
s that the definition of "previous" in this context is most likely flawed.<=
/FONT></SPAN></DIV>=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-0=
4012007><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</D=
IV>=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT fa=
ce=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>The&nbsp;"Response Fence" is merely an =
internal and untestable state machine input that</FONT></SPAN></DIV>=0A<DIV=
 dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT face=3DArial=
 color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>attempts to order the transmission of responses&n=
bsp;in the target port's queue.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr align=
=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=
 size=3D2>It&nbsp;</FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007>&nbsp;<FON=
T face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>does nothing to improve the overall=
 ordering of the responses at the application</FONT></SPAN></DIV>=0A<DIV di=
r=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT face=3DArial co=
lor=3D#0000ff size=3D2>client.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr align=
=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=
 size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN cl=
ass=3D082204116-04012007><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Driver=
s for generic SCSI transports must always be aware that requested operation=
s</FONT></SPAN></DIV>=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116=
-04012007><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>report completion wit=
h a more or less arbitrary time relationship to each other and must be</FON=
T></SPAN></DIV>=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012=
007><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>designed to tolerate that.&=
nbsp; </FONT></SPAN></DIV>=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D0822=
04116-04012007><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&n=
bsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><=
FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Using LOGICAL UNIT RESET as an e=
xample, the operation does not act only on</FONT></SPAN></DIV>=0A<DIV dir=
=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT face=3DArial col=
or=3D#0000ff size=3D2>the device server.&nbsp; As it passes down through th=
e initiator stack, it may clean out</FONT></SPAN></DIV>=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr al=
ign=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#000=
0ff size=3D2>previously offered commands that have not yet been transported=
.&nbsp; Then as it</FONT></SPAN></DIV>=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN =
class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>pass=
es up through the target stack, it may clean out previously offered command=
s</FONT></SPAN></DIV>=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116=
-04012007><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>that have not yet bee=
n operated on.&nbsp; As it passes through the device server</FONT></SPAN></=
DIV>=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT f=
ace=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>execution path, it may clean out previ=
ously offered commands that have begun</FONT></SPAN></DIV>=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr=
 align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#=
0000ff size=3D2>execution and&nbsp;some that have completed execution witho=
ut yet responding.&nbsp; As its </FONT></SPAN></DIV>=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr align=
=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=
 size=3D2>response passes back down the target stack, it may clean up comma=
nds</FONT></SPAN></DIV>=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D0822041=
16-04012007><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>that have completed=
 for which the response has not yet been transmitted, and as</FONT></SPAN><=
/DIV>=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT =
face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>it passes back up the initiator stack=
, it may clean up commands for which the</FONT></SPAN></DIV>=0A<DIV dir=3Dl=
tr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT face=3DArial color=
=3D#0000ff size=3D2>response has been transmitted, but not yet been made av=
ailable to the driver or</FONT></SPAN></DIV>=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>=
<SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D=
2>application.&nbsp; SAM-4 attempts to define the passage through the targe=
t port,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082=
204116-04012007><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>through the dev=
ice server, and back to the target port.&nbsp; However, beyond the</FONT></=
SPAN></DIV>=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D2=
><FONT color=3D#0000ff><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007>initiator port is o=
utside the SAM-4 scope, and even where it is defined,</SPAN></FONT></FONT><=
/FONT></DIV>=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D=
2><FONT color=3D#0000ff><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007>the "shall ensure"=
s are unlikely to be testable and in some cases not implementable.</SPAN><S=
PAN class=3D082204116-04012007>&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>=0A<=
DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT face=3DAr=
ial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr al=
ign=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#000=
0ff size=3D2>Will I sometimes get command complete indications for commands=
 after</FONT></SPAN></DIV>=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial=
><FONT size=3D2><FONT color=3D#0000ff><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007>a LO=
GICAL UNIT RESET response is received</SPAN><SPAN class=3D082204116-0401200=
7>?&nbsp; You bet.&nbsp;&nbsp;Response Fence&nbsp;doesn't</SPAN></FONT></FO=
NT></FONT></DIV>=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-0401=
2007><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>change that.</FONT></SPAN>=
</DIV>=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT=
 face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV di=
r=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT face=3DArial co=
lor=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Will I sometimes </FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=3D0822041=
16-04012007><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>get command aborted=
 indications for commands </FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><F=
ONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>after </FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=
=3D082204116-04012007><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>a </FONT>=
</SPAN></DIV>=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-0401200=
7><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>LOGICAL UNIT RESET&nbsp;is re=
sponse is received?&nbsp; You bet.&nbsp; Response Fence</FONT></SPAN></DIV>=
=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT face=
=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>doesn't change that.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>=
=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT face=
=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV dir=3Dl=
tr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT face=3DArial color=
=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Is this a problem?&nbsp; It never </FONT></SPAN><SPAN c=
lass=3D082204116-04012007><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>has b=
een in the past, why is it now?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr align=
=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=
 size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN cl=
ass=3D082204116-04012007><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Can yo=
u test the corner conditions for a fence operation?&nbsp; I doubt it.&nbsp;=
 The</FONT></SPAN></DIV>=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204=
116-04012007><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>existence of the "=
Response Fence" argument is internal to the target</FONT></SPAN></DIV>=0A<D=
IV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT face=3DAri=
al color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>implementation and invisible to testing.</FONT>=
</SPAN></DIV>=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-0401200=
7><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>=0A=
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT face=3DA=
rial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Bob</FONT></SPAN></DIV>=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr alig=
n=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000f=
f size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV><BR>=0A<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHead=
er lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>=0A<HR tabIndex=3D-1>=0A<FONT face=
=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> Elliott, Robert (Server Storage) [mailto:El=
liott@hp.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, January 03, 2007 3:35 PM<BR><B>To=
:</B> ips@ietf.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: [Ips] Response Fence Flag<BR></FO=
NT><BR></DIV>=0A<DIV></DIV>=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>=0A<P align=3Dlef=
t><FONT face=3DArial><FONT color=3D#0000ff><FONT size=3D2><SPAN class=3D381=
195622-03012007>SAM-3 and SAM-4 require all transport protocols to tag the =
TMF responses with the requests:</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></P>=0A<P align=
=3Dleft><FONT size=3D+0><FONT size=3D+0><SPAN class=3D381195622-03012007></=
SPAN><FONT face=3DArial><FONT color=3D#0000ff><FONT size=3D2><SPAN class=3D=
381195622-03012007>"</SPAN>Each SCSI transport protocol shall allow a <B>Re=
ceived Task Management Function Executed </B>confirming<SPAN class=3D381195=
622-03012007> </SPAN>completion of the requested task to be associated with=
 the corresponding <B>Send Task Management Request</B>.<SPAN class=3D381195=
622-03012007>"</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></P>=0A<P align=3Dl=
eft><FONT size=3D+0><FONT size=3D+0><FONT face=3DArial><FONT color=3D#0000f=
f><FONT size=3D2><SPAN class=3D381195622-03012007>Although iSCSI was based =
on SAM-2, it complies with that rule. The Fence concept is asking for more =
than that - it wants the target to be able to ensure that all previous comm=
ands/TMFs are complete before delivering a particular TMF response (e.g., f=
or a LOGICAL UNIT RESET).&nbsp; Since iSCSI doesn't have ACKs, the target m=
ust wait for the next PDU from the initiator with an updated ExpStatSN.</SP=
AN></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></P>=0A<P align=3Dleft><FONT size=3D+=
0><FONT size=3D+0><FONT face=3DArial><FONT color=3D#0000ff><FONT size=3D2><=
SPAN class=3D381195622-03012007>06-341r0 discussed an alternative - add a D=
elivery Resu</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT><FONT size=3D+0><FONT=
 size=3D+0><FONT face=3DArial><FONT color=3D#0000ff><FONT size=3D2><SPAN cl=
ass=3D381195622-03012007>lt output to the Send Command Complete and Task Ma=
nagement Function Executed confirmations (as previously proposed in 04-072r=
0 for a different purpose). This would let the device server/task manager&n=
bsp;wait for all&nbsp;the previous commands/TMF responses to complete (be A=
CKed) before proceeding to make additional calls (e.g., Task Management Fun=
ction Executed for a LOGICAL UNIT RESET).</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT=
></FONT></P>=0A<P align=3Dleft><FONT size=3D+0><FONT size=3D+0><FONT face=
=3DArial><FONT color=3D#0000ff><FONT size=3D2><SPAN class=3D381195622-03012=
007>However, iSCSI allows the target port to send a NOP-IN to force deliver=
y of a NOP-OUT with&nbsp;ExpStatSN, rather than passively wait for a PDU to=
 show up.&nbsp; The device server/task manager must instruct the target por=
t when to do this, and&nbsp;the Request Fence argument serves that purpose.=
&nbsp; Target ports using protocols without such a force mechanism are stil=
l OK - they will just wait for protocol-specific delivery confirmations (e.=
g. ACKs).</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT><FONT size=3D+0><FONT si=
ze=3D+0><FONT face=3DArial><FONT color=3D#0000ff><FONT size=3D2><SPAN class=
=3D381195622-03012007></P>=0A<P><SPAN lang=3Den-us><FONT face=3DArial size=
=3D2>--</FONT></SPAN> <BR><SPAN lang=3Den-us><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Ro=
b Elliott, elliott@hp.com</FONT></SPAN> <BR><SPAN lang=3Den-us><FONT face=
=3DArial size=3D2>Hewlett-Packard Industry Standard Server Storage Advanced=
 Technology</FONT></SPAN> <BR><SPAN lang=3Den-us><FONT face=3DArial size=3D=
2><A href=3D"https://ecardfile.com/id/RobElliott" target=3D_blank rel=3Dnof=
ollow>https://ecardfile.com/id/RobElliott</A></FONT></SPAN> </P>=0A<P align=
=3Dleft><BR></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</P></DIV>=0A<B=
LOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LE=
FT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">=0A<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHea=
der lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>=0A<HR tabIndex=3D-1>=0A<FONT face=
=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> Robert Snively [mailto:rsnively@Brocade.COM=
] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, January 03, 2007 4:46 PM<BR><B>To:</B> Elliot=
t, Robert (Server Storage); ips@ietf.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: [Ips] Respo=
nse Fence Flag<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>=0A<DIV></DIV>=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3D=
left><SPAN class=3D364133022-03012007><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff si=
ze=3D2>I need a little tutorial here.&nbsp; Note that this is an architectu=
ral hack that</FONT></SPAN></DIV>=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=
=3D364133022-03012007><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>is very "=
un-SCSI" and is not required if the response is qualified with identificati=
on</FONT></SPAN></DIV>=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D36413302=
2-03012007><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>information associat=
ed with the original request.&nbsp; I know that such qualification</FONT></=
SPAN></DIV>=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D364133022-03012007>=
<FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>exists for commands, but does i=
t exist for task management requests in</FONT></SPAN></DIV>=0A<DIV dir=3Dlt=
r align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D364133022-03012007><FONT face=3DArial color=3D=
#0000ff size=3D2>iSCSI?&nbsp; </FONT></SPAN></DIV>=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr align=
=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D364133022-03012007><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=
 size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN cl=
ass=3D364133022-03012007><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>I know=
 that it does exist for parallel SCSI (which is strictly interlocked)</FONT=
></SPAN></DIV>=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D364133022-030120=
07><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>and for SAS and Fibre Channe=
l SCSI, making such "fences" unrequired by</FONT></SPAN></DIV>=0A<DIV dir=
=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D364133022-03012007><FONT face=3DArial col=
or=3D#0000ff size=3D2>those technologies.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>=0A<DIV dir=3D=
ltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D364133022-03012007><FONT face=3DArial color=
=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dlef=
t><SPAN class=3D364133022-03012007><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=
=3D2>Note that Rob's previous revision of 06-341 is available on <A href=3D=
"http://www.t10.org/" target=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow>www.t10.org</A>.</FONT=
></SPAN></DIV>=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D364133022-030120=
07><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>=
=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D364133022-03012007><FONT face=
=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>I would hate to see such a hack creep int=
o the SCSI architecture.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>=
<SPAN class=3D364133022-03012007><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D=
2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D36=
4133022-03012007><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Bob</FONT></SP=
AN></DIV>=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D364133022-03012007><F=
ONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV><BR>=0A=
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>=0A<H=
R tabIndex=3D-1>=0A<FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> Elliott, Rober=
t (Server Storage) [mailto:Elliott@hp.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, Janu=
ary 03, 2007 1:56 PM<BR><B>To:</B> ips@ietf.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: [Ips=
] Response Fence Flag<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>=0A<DIV></DIV>=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr a=
lign=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN class=3D97431=
5421-03012007>If T10 agrees, T10 proposal 06-341 will add it to SAM-4.</SPA=
N></FONT></DIV>=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0=
000ff size=3D2><SPAN class=3D974315421-03012007></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>=
=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>=
<SPAN class=3D974315421-03012007>=0A<P><SPAN lang=3Den-us><FONT face=3DAria=
l size=3D2>--</FONT></SPAN> <BR><SPAN lang=3Den-us><FONT face=3DArial size=
=3D2>Rob Elliott, elliott@hp.com</FONT></SPAN> <BR><SPAN lang=3Den-us><FONT=
 face=3DArial size=3D2>Hewlett-Packard Industry Standard Server Storage Adv=
anced Technology</FONT></SPAN> <BR><SPAN lang=3Den-us><FONT face=3DArial si=
ze=3D2><A href=3D"https://ecardfile.com/id/RobElliott" target=3D_blank rel=
=3Dnofollow>https://ecardfile.com/id/RobElliott</A></FONT></SPAN> </P><BR><=
/SPAN></FONT></DIV><BR>=0A<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px;=
 MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">=0A<D=
IV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>=0A<HR =
tabIndex=3D-1>=0A<FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> Eddy Quicksall [=
mailto:Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, January 0=
3, 2007 2:00 PM<BR><B>To:</B> ips@ietf.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> [Ips] Respons=
e Fence Flag<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>=0A<DIV></DIV>=0A<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Secti=
on 3.3.1 talks about a Response Fence Flag:</FONT></DIV>=0A<DIV><FONT size=
=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV>SCSI protocol layer instructs the SCSI tran=
sport layer of a <BR>"Response Fence" associated with the response in quest=
ion when <BR>the "Send Command Complete" protocol data service (SAM-2, clau=
se <BR>5.4.2) ...</DIV>=0A<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV><FONT size=3D2>But I don=
't see any reference to that in SAM-2.</FONT></DIV>=0A<DIV><FONT size=3D2><=
/FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Is this strictly an iSCSI flag? Wh=
ere is the flag specified?</FONT></DIV>=0A<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;=
</DIV>=0A<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Eddy</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>=0A=
<DIV>_______________________________________________<BR>Ips mailing list<BR=
>Ips@ietf.org<BR><A href=3D"https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ips" tar=
get=3D_blank>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ips</A></DIV></DIV>=0A<=
DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times=
, serif"><BR></DIV></div><br>______________________________________________=
____<br>Do You Yahoo!?<br>Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam pro=
tection around <br>http://mail.yahoo.com </body></html>
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From ips-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jan 04 15:27:43 2007
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Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 12:27:14 -0800 (PST)
From: "Mallikarjun C." <cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ips] iSCSI Implementer's Guide - WG Last Call status
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Ken,=0A=0AI think the concern here is that whatever text we put in could ea=
sily be misinterpreted as granting the target implementation the freedom to=
 "properly understand" the initiator's intent, when the problem is that the=
 initiator's intent is either fuzzy or plain confusing from the PDU content=
s and the target does not really know what the "proper intent" is.=0A=0AMal=
likarjun=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: "Sandars, Ken" <ken=
_sandars@adaptec.com>=0ATo: Eddy Quicksall <Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net>;=
 Black_David@emc.com; ips@ietf.org=0ASent: Monday, January 1, 2007 5:05:30 =
PM=0ASubject: RE: [Ips] iSCSI Implementer's Guide - WG Last Call status=0A=
=0A=0AHappy New Gregorian Year,=0A=0AI support Eddy's request for some word=
s to suggest that target=0Aimplementations should be allowed to handle init=
iator errors in a manner=0Awhich does not damage the target behaviour.=0A=
=0ATarget behaviour should be evaluated by its transmissions on the wire=0A=
and via data integrity tests. Test suites and protocol analysers should=0An=
ot assume what the target's actions will be as a result of illegal=0Ainitia=
tor behaviour unless explicitly defined in RFC3720.=0A=0AFor example, say a=
n initiator issues a Logout Request PDU with reason=0Acode 0 (close the ses=
sion), but sets the CID field to the current=0Aconnection. The target MAY p=
rocess this command as though there is no=0Aerror on the part of the initia=
tor. A test suite or protocol analyser=0AMUST NOT penalise the target if it=
 does so.=0A=0AAnother example is an initiator which sets either the W or/a=
nd R bits in=0Aa SCSI Command Request PDU which has an Expected Data Transf=
er Length of=0A0.=0A=0AFinally, a test-suite which sets a non-zero value in=
 reserved fields for=0Ainitiator PDUs should not expect the target to check=
 these values.=0A=0AClearly a target which performs additional checking of =
the initiator's=0APDUs is likely to be more robust when faced with receptio=
n errors when=0Anot using digests.=0A=0A=0ACheers=0AKen=0A=0A-----Original =
Message-----=0AFrom: Eddy Quicksall [mailto:Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net] =
=0ASent: Tuesday, 2 January 2007 00:54=0ATo: Black_David@emc.com; ips@ietf.=
org=0ASubject: Re: [Ips] iSCSI Implementer's Guide - WG Last Call status=0A=
=0AActually I didn't want to discourage targets from checking but to point=
=0Aout that checking is not required unless the RFC specifically requires=
=0Ait. The note could in fact encourage checking where performance is not=
=0Aaffected.=0A=0AEddy=0A=0A----- Original Message -----=0AFrom: <Black_Dav=
id@emc.com>=0ATo: <ips@ietf.org>=0ASent: Thursday, December 28, 2006 3:27 P=
M=0ASubject: [Ips] iSCSI Implementer's Guide - WG Last Call status=0A=0A=0A=
The Working Group Last Call on this draft nominally ended on=0ADecember 18t=
h, but there was no reason to treat that as a hard=0Acutoff.  I am now endi=
ng the WG Last Call on this draft, although=0Alist discussion of issues sho=
uld be continued.=0A=0AThere have been two issues raised during this WGLC:=
=0A(1) Task Management - how to deal with uncooperative third-=0Aparty init=
iators.  This issue has been resolved=0Aon the list.=0A(2) Target checks - =
whether to discourage targets from=0Achecking for initiator mistakes that t=
he target can=0Atolerate.  At the moment, I think the "rough consensus"=0Ao=
f the WG is not to do this - if anyone other than=0AEddy thinks this is imp=
ortant to clarify, they need=0Ato speak up promptly after the holidays.=0A=
=0AThe process from here is that Mallikarjun will submit a=0Arevised versio=
n of the draft in the near future (there are=0Astill some details to be wor=
ked out on the list).  I will=0Abe completely out of action (no email) the =
first two weeks=0Aof January, so there will be time for people to check for=
=0Aproblems/issues/etc.  I will check the revised draft and=0Asend it to La=
rs with a request for RFC publication sometime=0Ain the second half of Janu=
ary (probably during the week of=0AJanuary 22nd).=0A=0AThanks,=0A--David=0A=
=0A----------------------------------------------------=0ADavid L. Black, S=
enior Technologist=0AEMC Corporation, 176 South St., Hopkinton, MA  01748=
=0A+1 (508) 293-7953             FAX: +1 (508) 293-7786=0Ablack_david@emc.c=
om        Mobile: +1 (978) 394-7754=0A-------------------------------------=
---------------=0A=0A=0A_______________________________________________=0AI=
ps mailing list=0AIps@ietf.org=0Ahttps://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ips=
 =0A=0A=0A_______________________________________________=0AIps mailing lis=
t=0AIps@ietf.org=0Ahttps://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ips=0A=0A________=
_______________________________________=0AIps mailing list=0AIps@ietf.org=
=0Ahttps://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ips=0A=0A________________________=
__________________________=0ADo You Yahoo!?=0ATired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail h=
as the best spam protection around =0Ahttp://mail.yahoo.com 

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From: Paul Koning <pkoning@equallogic.com>
To: cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [Ips] iSCSI Implementer's Guide - WG Last Call status
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>>>>> "Mallikarjun" == Mallikarjun C <cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com> writes:

 Mallikarjun> Ken, I think the concern here is that whatever text we
 Mallikarjun> put in could easily be misinterpreted as granting the
 Mallikarjun> target implementation the freedom to "properly
 Mallikarjun> understand" the initiator's intent, when the problem is
 Mallikarjun> that the initiator's intent is either fuzzy or plain
 Mallikarjun> confusing from the PDU contents and the target does not
 Mallikarjun> really know what the "proper intent" is.

I think we've been here before.

To me the answer is very simple.  If an initiator obeys the protocol
rules, it is entitled to see behavior specified by the RFC.  If it
violates the rules, it is not entitled to anything.

A target MAY check for protocol violations, but (unless the RFC
specifically requires it, which it should only do for strong reasons)
it is under no obligation to check.  If it checks, then the initiator
will probably see a fairly clean reaction to a protocol error (for
example a disconnect, or a reject of some sort).  If the target
doesn't check, a faulty initiator may see undefined behavior.

Ditto in the other direction (swap "initiator" and "target" in the
above). 

Requiring "sane" reactions (however one might define those) to
non-sane inputs is not a good thing to ask for.  It imposes
substantial overhead on good implementations, and it only benefits bad
implementations.

	paul


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From ips-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jan 04 17:44:48 2007
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From: "Mallikarjun C." <cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ips] iSCSI Implementer's Guide - WG Last Call status
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Paul,=0A=0AAgree with everything you wrote.=0A=0ARFC 3720 does not require =
sane reactions to non-sane inputs.  This draft should not say anything that=
 suggests target/initiator may draw sane interpretations to non-sane inputs=
 either.=0A=0ASounds like an agreement to not add any new text to me.=0A=0A=
Mallikarjun=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: Paul Koning <pkonin=
g@equallogic.com>=0ATo: cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com=0ACc: ips@ietf.org=0ASent:=
 Thursday, January 4, 2007 1:11:51 PM=0ASubject: Re: [Ips] iSCSI Implemente=
r's Guide - WG Last Call status=0A=0A=0A>>>>> "Mallikarjun" =3D=3D Mallikar=
jun C <cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com> writes:=0A=0AMallikarjun> Ken, I think the=
 concern here is that whatever text we=0AMallikarjun> put in could easily b=
e misinterpreted as granting the=0AMallikarjun> target implementation the f=
reedom to "properly=0AMallikarjun> understand" the initiator's intent, when=
 the problem is=0AMallikarjun> that the initiator's intent is either fuzzy =
or plain=0AMallikarjun> confusing from the PDU contents and the target does=
 not=0AMallikarjun> really know what the "proper intent" is.=0A=0AI think w=
e've been here before.=0A=0ATo me the answer is very simple.  If an initiat=
or obeys the protocol=0Arules, it is entitled to see behavior specified by =
the RFC.  If it=0Aviolates the rules, it is not entitled to anything.=0A=0A=
A target MAY check for protocol violations, but (unless the RFC=0Aspecifica=
lly requires it, which it should only do for strong reasons)=0Ait is under =
no obligation to check.  If it checks, then the initiator=0Awill probably s=
ee a fairly clean reaction to a protocol error (for=0Aexample a disconnect,=
 or a reject of some sort).  If the target=0Adoesn't check, a faulty initia=
tor may see undefined behavior.=0A=0ADitto in the other direction (swap "in=
itiator" and "target" in the=0Aabove). =0A=0ARequiring "sane" reactions (ho=
wever one might define those) to=0Anon-sane inputs is not a good thing to a=
sk for.  It imposes=0Asubstantial overhead on good implementations, and it =
only benefits bad=0Aimplementations.=0A=0A    paul=0A=0A___________________=
_______________________________=0ADo You Yahoo!?=0ATired of spam?  Yahoo! M=
ail has the best spam protection around =0Ahttp://mail.yahoo.com 

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>>>>> "Mallikarjun" == Mallikarjun C <cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com> writes:

 Mallikarjun> Paul, Agree with everything you wrote.

 Mallikarjun> RFC 3720 does not require sane reactions to non-sane
 Mallikarjun> inputs.  This draft should not say anything that
 Mallikarjun> suggests target/initiator may draw sane interpretations
 Mallikarjun> to non-sane inputs either.

Great summary.

 Mallikarjun> Sounds like an agreement to not add any new text to me.

Well, Eddy raised the issue a while back that some people writing
conformance tests were interpreting "initiator must do X" as "target
must check that initiator does X".  That's clearly an incorrect
conclusion.  But given that people make this mistake, I wonder if a
note in the guide saying "unless RFC 3720 specifically requires it, an
implementation is not required to do protocol conformance checking on
incoming message", or something like that, would be helpful.

      paul


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From laqueta@asiamail.com Thu Jan 04 21:58:29 2007
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From: "Sharon" <laqueta@asiamail.com>
To: "Olivia" <ips-archive@lists.ietf.org>
Subject: Insure the Best possible Income
Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 04:57:17 +1000
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From ips-bounces@ietf.org Fri Jan 05 11:25:39 2007
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Subject: Re: [Ips] iSCSI Implementer's Guide - WG Last Call status
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I remember long ago talking about this when we were developing the RFC. I 
remember some people clearly saying that if the RFC said "must do X" then it 
meant that the peer "must check X". I didn't pursue the issue because it 
seemed to be of little importance.

But as time went on and the draft got finalized, I ran into cases where that 
view was still taken to hart. Of course "the customer is always right" so I 
added checks.

More recently I thought that since this guide was being written that maybe a 
simple statement could be made to clarify the issue.

I'm not debating the issue of the importance of making a check or even the 
criteria for making the check.

Eddy

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Paul Koning" <pkoning@equallogic.com>
To: <cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com>
Cc: <ips@ietf.org>
Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 6:00 PM
Subject: Re: [Ips] iSCSI Implementer's Guide - WG Last Call status


>>>>>> "Mallikarjun" == Mallikarjun C <cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com> writes:
>
> Mallikarjun> Paul, Agree with everything you wrote.
>
> Mallikarjun> RFC 3720 does not require sane reactions to non-sane
> Mallikarjun> inputs.  This draft should not say anything that
> Mallikarjun> suggests target/initiator may draw sane interpretations
> Mallikarjun> to non-sane inputs either.
>
> Great summary.
>
> Mallikarjun> Sounds like an agreement to not add any new text to me.
>
> Well, Eddy raised the issue a while back that some people writing
> conformance tests were interpreting "initiator must do X" as "target
> must check that initiator does X".  That's clearly an incorrect
> conclusion.  But given that people make this mistake, I wonder if a
> note in the guide saying "unless RFC 3720 specifically requires it, an
> implementation is not required to do protocol conformance checking on
> incoming message", or something like that, would be helpful.
>
>      paul
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ips mailing list
> Ips@ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ips
> 


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>From an earlier email I think that Response Fence is only a proposal in =
T10 (http://www.t10.org:80/doc06.htm). If so shouldn't iSCSI wait a bit =
until this has been ratified?

Eddy
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Robert Snively=20
  To: Elliott, Robert (Server Storage) ; ips@ietf.org=20
  Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 1:01 PM
  Subject: RE: [Ips] Response Fence Flag


  The problem is that the definition of "previous" in this context is =
most likely flawed.

  The "Response Fence" is merely an internal and untestable state =
machine input that
  attempts to order the transmission of responses in the target port's =
queue.
  It  does nothing to improve the overall ordering of the responses at =
the application
  client.

  Drivers for generic SCSI transports must always be aware that =
requested operations
  report completion with a more or less arbitrary time relationship to =
each other and must be
  designed to tolerate that. =20

  Using LOGICAL UNIT RESET as an example, the operation does not act =
only on
  the device server.  As it passes down through the initiator stack, it =
may clean out
  previously offered commands that have not yet been transported.  Then =
as it
  passes up through the target stack, it may clean out previously =
offered commands
  that have not yet been operated on.  As it passes through the device =
server
  execution path, it may clean out previously offered commands that have =
begun
  execution and some that have completed execution without yet =
responding.  As its=20
  response passes back down the target stack, it may clean up commands
  that have completed for which the response has not yet been =
transmitted, and as
  it passes back up the initiator stack, it may clean up commands for =
which the
  response has been transmitted, but not yet been made available to the =
driver or
  application.  SAM-4 attempts to define the passage through the target =
port,
  through the device server, and back to the target port.  However, =
beyond the
  initiator port is outside the SAM-4 scope, and even where it is =
defined,
  the "shall ensure"s are unlikely to be testable and in some cases not =
implementable.=20

  Will I sometimes get command complete indications for commands after
  a LOGICAL UNIT RESET response is received?  You bet.  Response Fence =
doesn't
  change that.

  Will I sometimes get command aborted indications for commands after a=20
  LOGICAL UNIT RESET is response is received?  You bet.  Response Fence
  doesn't change that.

  Is this a problem?  It never has been in the past, why is it now?

  Can you test the corner conditions for a fence operation?  I doubt it. =
 The
  existence of the "Response Fence" argument is internal to the target
  implementation and invisible to testing.

  Bob




-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----
  From: Elliott, Robert (Server Storage) [mailto:Elliott@hp.com]=20
  Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 3:35 PM
  To: ips@ietf.org
  Subject: RE: [Ips] Response Fence Flag


  SAM-3 and SAM-4 require all transport protocols to tag the TMF =
responses with the requests:

  "Each SCSI transport protocol shall allow a Received Task Management =
Function Executed confirming completion of the requested task to be =
associated with the corresponding Send Task Management Request."

  Although iSCSI was based on SAM-2, it complies with that rule. The =
Fence concept is asking for more than that - it wants the target to be =
able to ensure that all previous commands/TMFs are complete before =
delivering a particular TMF response (e.g., for a LOGICAL UNIT RESET).  =
Since iSCSI doesn't have ACKs, the target must wait for the next PDU =
from the initiator with an updated ExpStatSN.

  06-341r0 discussed an alternative - add a Delivery Result output to =
the Send Command Complete and Task Management Function Executed =
confirmations (as previously proposed in 04-072r0 for a different =
purpose). This would let the device server/task manager wait for all the =
previous commands/TMF responses to complete (be ACKed) before proceeding =
to make additional calls (e.g., Task Management Function Executed for a =
LOGICAL UNIT RESET).

  However, iSCSI allows the target port to send a NOP-IN to force =
delivery of a NOP-OUT with ExpStatSN, rather than passively wait for a =
PDU to show up.  The device server/task manager must instruct the target =
port when to do this, and the Request Fence argument serves that =
purpose.  Target ports using protocols without such a force mechanism =
are still OK - they will just wait for protocol-specific delivery =
confirmations (e.g. ACKs).

  --=20
  Rob Elliott, elliott@hp.com=20
  Hewlett-Packard Industry Standard Server Storage Advanced Technology=20
  https://ecardfile.com/id/RobElliott=20


  =20


-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
---
    From: Robert Snively [mailto:rsnively@Brocade.COM]=20
    Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 4:46 PM
    To: Elliott, Robert (Server Storage); ips@ietf.org
    Subject: RE: [Ips] Response Fence Flag


    I need a little tutorial here.  Note that this is an architectural =
hack that
    is very "un-SCSI" and is not required if the response is qualified =
with identification
    information associated with the original request.  I know that such =
qualification
    exists for commands, but does it exist for task management requests =
in
    iSCSI? =20

    I know that it does exist for parallel SCSI (which is strictly =
interlocked)
    and for SAS and Fibre Channel SCSI, making such "fences" unrequired =
by
    those technologies.

    Note that Rob's previous revision of 06-341 is available on =
www.t10.org.

    I would hate to see such a hack creep into the SCSI architecture.

    Bob




-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
---
    From: Elliott, Robert (Server Storage) [mailto:Elliott@hp.com]=20
    Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 1:56 PM
    To: ips@ietf.org
    Subject: RE: [Ips] Response Fence Flag


    If T10 agrees, T10 proposal 06-341 will add it to SAM-4.

    --=20
    Rob Elliott, elliott@hp.com=20
    Hewlett-Packard Industry Standard Server Storage Advanced Technology =

    https://ecardfile.com/id/RobElliott=20






-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-
      From: Eddy Quicksall [mailto:Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net]=20
      Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 2:00 PM
      To: ips@ietf.org
      Subject: [Ips] Response Fence Flag


      Section 3.3.1 talks about a Response Fence Flag:

      SCSI protocol layer instructs the SCSI transport layer of a=20
      "Response Fence" associated with the response in question when=20
      the "Send Command Complete" protocol data service (SAM-2, clause=20
      5.4.2) ...

      But I don't see any reference to that in SAM-2.

      Is this strictly an iSCSI flag? Where is the flag specified?

      Eddy


-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----


  _______________________________________________
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  Ips@ietf.org
  https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ips

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<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
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<DIV><FONT size=3D2>From an earlier email I =
think&nbsp;that&nbsp;Response Fence is=20
only a proposal in T10 (<A=20
href=3D"http://www.t10.org:80/doc06.htm">http://www.t10.org:80/doc06.htm<=
/A>). If=20
so shouldn't iSCSI wait a bit until this has been ratified?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Eddy</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3Drsnively@Brocade.COM =
href=3D"mailto:rsnively@Brocade.COM">Robert=20
  Snively</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=3DElliott@hp.com=20
  href=3D"mailto:Elliott@hp.com">Elliott, Robert (Server Storage)</A> ; =
<A=20
  title=3Dips@ietf.org href=3D"mailto:ips@ietf.org">ips@ietf.org</A> =
</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, January 04, =
2007 1:01=20
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: [Ips] Response =
Fence=20
  Flag</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>The problem is that the definition of =
"previous" in this=20
  context is most likely flawed.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>The&nbsp;"Response Fence" is merely an =
internal and=20
  untestable state machine input that</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>attempts to order the transmission of =
responses&nbsp;in=20
  the target port's queue.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>It&nbsp;</FONT></SPAN><SPAN=20
  class=3D082204116-04012007>&nbsp;<FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>does=20
  nothing to improve the overall ordering of the responses at the=20
  application</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>client.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Drivers for generic SCSI transports must =
always be aware=20
  that requested operations</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>report completion with a more or less =
arbitrary time=20
  relationship to each other and must be</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>designed to tolerate that.&nbsp; =
</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Using LOGICAL UNIT RESET as an example, the =
operation=20
  does not act only on</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>the device server.&nbsp; As it passes down =
through the=20
  initiator stack, it may clean out</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>previously offered commands that have not yet =
been=20
  transported.&nbsp; Then as it</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>passes up through the target stack, it may =
clean out=20
  previously offered commands</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>that have not yet been operated on.&nbsp; As =
it passes=20
  through the device server</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>execution path, it may clean out previously =
offered=20
  commands that have begun</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>execution and&nbsp;some that have completed =
execution=20
  without yet responding.&nbsp; As its </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>response passes back down the target stack, =
it may clean=20
  up commands</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>that have completed for which the response =
has not yet=20
  been transmitted, and as</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>it passes back up the initiator stack, it may =
clean up=20
  commands for which the</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>response has been transmitted, but not yet =
been made=20
  available to the driver or</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>application.&nbsp; SAM-4 attempts to define =
the passage=20
  through the target port,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>through the device server, and back to the =
target=20
  port.&nbsp; However, beyond the</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20
  color=3D#0000ff><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007>initiator port is =
outside the=20
  SAM-4 scope, and even where it is =
defined,</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20
  color=3D#0000ff><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007>the "shall ensure"s =
are unlikely=20
  to be testable and in some cases not implementable.</SPAN><SPAN=20
  class=3D082204116-04012007>&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Will I sometimes get command complete =
indications for=20
  commands after</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20
  color=3D#0000ff><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007>a LOGICAL UNIT RESET =
response is=20
  received</SPAN><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007>?&nbsp; You=20
  bet.&nbsp;&nbsp;Response =
Fence&nbsp;doesn't</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>change that.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Will I sometimes </FONT></SPAN><SPAN=20
  class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>get command=20
  aborted indications for commands </FONT></SPAN><SPAN=20
  class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>after=20
  </FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
  size=3D2>a </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>LOGICAL UNIT RESET&nbsp;is response is =
received?&nbsp;=20
  You bet.&nbsp; Response Fence</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>doesn't change that.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Is this a problem?&nbsp; It never =
</FONT></SPAN><SPAN=20
  class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>has been in the=20
  past, why is it now?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Can you test the corner conditions for a =
fence=20
  operation?&nbsp; I doubt it.&nbsp; The</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>existence of the "Response Fence" argument is =
internal to=20
  the target</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>implementation and invisible to=20
  testing.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Bob</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV><BR>
  <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>
  <HR tabIndex=3D-1>
  <FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> Elliott, Robert (Server =
Storage)=20
  [mailto:Elliott@hp.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, January 03, 2007 =
3:35=20
  PM<BR><B>To:</B> ips@ietf.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: [Ips] Response =
Fence=20
  Flag<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>
  <P align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial><FONT color=3D#0000ff><FONT =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
  class=3D381195622-03012007>SAM-3 and SAM-4 require all transport =
protocols to=20
  tag the TMF responses with the =
requests:</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></P>
  <P align=3Dleft><FONT size=3D+0><FONT size=3D+0><SPAN=20
  class=3D381195622-03012007></SPAN><FONT face=3DArial><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff><FONT=20
  size=3D2><SPAN class=3D381195622-03012007>"</SPAN>Each SCSI transport =
protocol=20
  shall allow a <B>Received Task Management Function Executed=20
  </B>confirming<SPAN class=3D381195622-03012007> </SPAN>completion of =
the=20
  requested task to be associated with the corresponding <B>Send Task =
Management=20
  Request</B>.<SPAN=20
  =
class=3D381195622-03012007>"</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></P=
>
  <P align=3Dleft><FONT size=3D+0><FONT size=3D+0><FONT =
face=3DArial><FONT=20
  color=3D#0000ff><FONT size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D381195622-03012007>Although iSCSI was=20
  based on SAM-2, it complies with that rule. The Fence concept is =
asking for=20
  more than that - it wants the target to be able to ensure that all =
previous=20
  commands/TMFs are complete before delivering a particular TMF response =
(e.g.,=20
  for a LOGICAL UNIT RESET).&nbsp; Since iSCSI doesn't have ACKs, the =
target=20
  must wait for the next PDU from the initiator with an updated=20
  ExpStatSN.</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></P>
  <P align=3Dleft><FONT size=3D+0><FONT size=3D+0><FONT =
face=3DArial><FONT=20
  color=3D#0000ff><FONT size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D381195622-03012007>06-341r0 discussed=20
  an alternative - add a Delivery=20
  Resu</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT><FONT size=3D+0><FONT=20
  size=3D+0><FONT face=3DArial><FONT color=3D#0000ff><FONT =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
  class=3D381195622-03012007>lt output to the Send Command Complete and =
Task=20
  Management Function Executed confirmations (as previously proposed in =
04-072r0=20
  for a different purpose). This would let the device server/task=20
  manager&nbsp;wait for all&nbsp;the previous commands/TMF responses to =
complete=20
  (be ACKed) before proceeding to make additional calls (e.g., Task =
Management=20
  Function Executed for a LOGICAL UNIT=20
  RESET).</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></P>
  <P align=3Dleft><FONT size=3D+0><FONT size=3D+0><FONT =
face=3DArial><FONT=20
  color=3D#0000ff><FONT size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D381195622-03012007>However, iSCSI=20
  allows the target port to send a NOP-IN to force delivery of a NOP-OUT =

  with&nbsp;ExpStatSN, rather than passively wait for a PDU to show =
up.&nbsp;=20
  The device server/task manager must instruct the target port when to =
do this,=20
  and&nbsp;the Request Fence argument serves that purpose.&nbsp; Target =
ports=20
  using protocols without such a force mechanism are still OK - they =
will just=20
  wait for protocol-specific delivery confirmations (e.g.=20
  ACKs).</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT><FONT size=3D+0><FONT=20
  size=3D+0><FONT face=3DArial><FONT color=3D#0000ff><FONT =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
  class=3D381195622-03012007><!-- Converted from text/rtf format --></P>
  <P><SPAN lang=3Den-us><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>--</FONT></SPAN> =
<BR><SPAN=20
  lang=3Den-us><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rob Elliott, =
elliott@hp.com</FONT></SPAN>=20
  <BR><SPAN lang=3Den-us><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hewlett-Packard =
Industry Standard=20
  Server Storage Advanced Technology</FONT></SPAN> <BR><SPAN =
lang=3Den-us><FONT=20
  face=3DArial size=3D2><A=20
  =
href=3D"https://ecardfile.com/id/RobElliott">https://ecardfile.com/id/Rob=
Elliott</A></FONT></SPAN>=20
  </P>
  <P =
align=3Dleft><BR></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</P></DI=
V>
  <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
  style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr =
align=3Dleft>
    <HR tabIndex=3D-1>
    <FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> Robert Snively=20
    [mailto:rsnively@Brocade.COM] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, January =
03, 2007=20
    4:46 PM<BR><B>To:</B> Elliott, Robert (Server Storage);=20
    ips@ietf.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: [Ips] Response Fence=20
    Flag<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
    <DIV></DIV>
    <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D364133022-03012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
    color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>I need a little tutorial here.&nbsp; Note =
that this is=20
    an architectural hack that</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
    <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D364133022-03012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
    color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>is very "un-SCSI" and is not required if =
the response=20
    is qualified with identification</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
    <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D364133022-03012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
    color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>information associated with the original =
request.&nbsp;=20
    I know that such qualification</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
    <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D364133022-03012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
    color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>exists for commands, but does it exist for =
task=20
    management requests in</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
    <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D364133022-03012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
    color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>iSCSI?&nbsp; </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
    <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D364133022-03012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
    color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D364133022-03012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
    color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>I know that it does exist for parallel SCSI =
(which is=20
    strictly interlocked)</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
    <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D364133022-03012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
    color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>and for SAS and Fibre Channel SCSI, making =
such=20
    "fences" unrequired by</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
    <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D364133022-03012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
    color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>those technologies.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
    <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D364133022-03012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
    color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D364133022-03012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
    color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Note that Rob's previous revision of 06-341 =
is=20
    available on <A=20
    href=3D"http://www.t10.org">www.t10.org</A>.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
    <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D364133022-03012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
    color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D364133022-03012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
    color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>I would hate to see such a hack creep into =
the SCSI=20
    architecture.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
    <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D364133022-03012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
    color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D364133022-03012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
    color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Bob</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
    <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D364133022-03012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
    color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV><BR>
    <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr =
align=3Dleft>
    <HR tabIndex=3D-1>
    <FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> Elliott, Robert (Server =
Storage)=20
    [mailto:Elliott@hp.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, January 03, 2007 =
1:56=20
    PM<BR><B>To:</B> ips@ietf.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: [Ips] Response =
Fence=20
    Flag<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
    <DIV></DIV>
    <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
    class=3D974315421-03012007>If T10 agrees, T10 proposal 06-341 will =
add it to=20
    SAM-4.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
    class=3D974315421-03012007></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
    class=3D974315421-03012007><!-- Converted from text/rtf format -->
    <P><SPAN lang=3Den-us><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>--</FONT></SPAN> =
<BR><SPAN=20
    lang=3Den-us><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rob Elliott, =
elliott@hp.com</FONT></SPAN>=20
    <BR><SPAN lang=3Den-us><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hewlett-Packard =
Industry=20
    Standard Server Storage Advanced Technology</FONT></SPAN> <BR><SPAN=20
    lang=3Den-us><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><A=20
    =
href=3D"https://ecardfile.com/id/RobElliott">https://ecardfile.com/id/Rob=
Elliott</A></FONT></SPAN>=20
    </P><BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV><BR>
    <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
    style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff =
2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
      <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr =
align=3Dleft>
      <HR tabIndex=3D-1>
      <FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> Eddy Quicksall=20
      [mailto:Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, =
January=20
      03, 2007 2:00 PM<BR><B>To:</B> ips@ietf.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> =
[Ips]=20
      Response Fence Flag<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
      <DIV></DIV>
      <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Section 3.3.1 talks about a Response Fence=20
      Flag:</FONT></DIV>
      <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <DIV>SCSI protocol layer instructs the SCSI transport layer of a=20
      <BR>"Response Fence" associated with the response in question when =
<BR>the=20
      "Send Command Complete" protocol data service (SAM-2, clause =
<BR>5.4.2)=20
      ...</DIV>
      <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <DIV><FONT size=3D2>But I don't see any reference to that in=20
      SAM-2.</FONT></DIV>
      <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Is this strictly an iSCSI flag? Where is the =
flag=20
      specified?</FONT></DIV>
      <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Eddy</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <P>
  <HR>

  <P></P>_______________________________________________<BR>Ips mailing=20
  =
list<BR>Ips@ietf.org<BR>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ips<BR></B=
LOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From: "Mallikarjun C." <cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ips] Response Fence Flag
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Not really.  Current draft text is intentionally written to not have any de=
pendencies on T10 dynamics.  The point is that iSCSI needs such a notion fo=
r succinctly describing the proper iSCSI protocol actions in a few places -=
 ACA, TMF, Persistent reserve/Abort to name a few.  We certainly hope it wi=
ll be approved by T10 and be a part of SAM-4 soon, but that isn't required =
per se for describing what iSCSI needs for its correct behavior.=0A=0AIPS W=
G has adopted what it needs in the past - staying ahead of T10 review/appro=
val cycle if necessary.  I_T nexus loss notification, iSCSI target/port nam=
ing, clearing effects are a few I recall.=0A=0AMallikarjun=0A=0A=0A=0A-----=
 Original Message ----=0AFrom: Eddy Quicksall <Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.ne=
t>=0ATo: Robert Snively <rsnively@Brocade.COM>; "Elliott, Robert (Server St=
orage)" <Elliott@hp.com>; ips@ietf.org=0ASent: Friday, January 5, 2007 8:58=
:47 AM=0ASubject: Re: [Ips] Response Fence Flag=0A=0A=0AFrom an earlier ema=
il I think that Response Fence is only a proposal in T10 (http://www.t10.or=
g:80/doc06.htm). If so shouldn't iSCSI wait a bit until this has been ratif=
ied?=0A =0AEddy=0A----- Original Message ----- =0AFrom: Robert Snively =0AT=
o: Elliott, Robert (Server Storage) ; ips@ietf.org =0ASent: Thursday, Janua=
ry 04, 2007 1:01 PM=0ASubject: RE: [Ips] Response Fence Flag=0A=0A=0AThe pr=
oblem is that the definition of "previous" in this context is most likely f=
lawed.=0A =0AThe "Response Fence" is merely an internal and untestable stat=
e machine input that=0Aattempts to order the transmission of responses in t=
he target port's queue.=0AIt  does nothing to improve the overall ordering =
of the responses at the application=0Aclient.=0A =0ADrivers for generic SCS=
I transports must always be aware that requested operations=0Areport comple=
tion with a more or less arbitrary time relationship to each other and must=
 be=0Adesigned to tolerate that.  =0A =0AUsing LOGICAL UNIT RESET as an exa=
mple, the operation does not act only on=0Athe device server.  As it passes=
 down through the initiator stack, it may clean out=0Apreviously offered co=
mmands that have not yet been transported.  Then as it=0Apasses up through =
the target stack, it may clean out previously offered commands=0Athat have =
not yet been operated on.  As it passes through the device server=0Aexecuti=
on path, it may clean out previously offered commands that have begun=0Aexe=
cution and some that have completed execution without yet responding.  As i=
ts =0Aresponse passes back down the target stack, it may clean up commands=
=0Athat have completed for which the response has not yet been transmitted,=
 and as=0Ait passes back up the initiator stack, it may clean up commands f=
or which the=0Aresponse has been transmitted, but not yet been made availab=
le to the driver or=0Aapplication.  SAM-4 attempts to define the passage th=
rough the target port,=0Athrough the device server, and back to the target =
port.  However, beyond the=0Ainitiator port is outside the SAM-4 scope, and=
 even where it is defined,=0Athe "shall ensure"s are unlikely to be testabl=
e and in some cases not implementable. =0A =0AWill I sometimes get command =
complete indications for commands after=0Aa LOGICAL UNIT RESET response is =
received?  You bet.  Response Fence doesn't=0Achange that.=0A =0AWill I som=
etimes get command aborted indications for commands after a =0ALOGICAL UNIT=
 RESET is response is received?  You bet.  Response Fence=0Adoesn't change =
that.=0A =0AIs this a problem?  It never has been in the past, why is it no=
w?=0A =0ACan you test the corner conditions for a fence operation?  I doubt=
 it.  The=0Aexistence of the "Response Fence" argument is internal to the t=
arget=0Aimplementation and invisible to testing.=0A =0ABob=0A =0A=0A=0A=0A=
=0AFrom: Elliott, Robert (Server Storage) [mailto:Elliott@hp.com] =0ASent: =
Wednesday, January 03, 2007 3:35 PM=0ATo: ips@ietf.org=0ASubject: RE: [Ips]=
 Response Fence Flag=0A=0A=0ASAM-3 and SAM-4 require all transport protocol=
s to tag the TMF responses with the requests:=0A"Each SCSI transport protoc=
ol shall allow a Received Task Management Function Executed confirming comp=
letion of the requested task to be associated with the corresponding Send T=
ask Management Request."=0AAlthough iSCSI was based on SAM-2, it complies w=
ith that rule. The Fence concept is asking for more than that - it wants th=
e target to be able to ensure that all previous commands/TMFs are complete =
before delivering a particular TMF response (e.g., for a LOGICAL UNIT RESET=
).  Since iSCSI doesn't have ACKs, the target must wait for the next PDU fr=
om the initiator with an updated ExpStatSN.=0A06-341r0 discussed an alterna=
tive - add a Delivery Result output to the Send Command Complete and Task M=
anagement Function Executed confirmations (as previously proposed in 04-072=
r0 for a different purpose). This would let the device server/task manager =
wait for all the previous commands/TMF responses to complete (be ACKed) bef=
ore proceeding to make additional calls (e.g., Task Management Function Exe=
cuted for a LOGICAL UNIT RESET).=0AHowever, iSCSI allows the target port to=
 send a NOP-IN to force delivery of a NOP-OUT with ExpStatSN, rather than p=
assively wait for a PDU to show up.  The device server/task manager must in=
struct the target port when to do this, and the Request Fence argument serv=
es that purpose.  Target ports using protocols without such a force mechani=
sm are still OK - they will just wait for protocol-specific delivery confir=
mations (e.g. ACKs).=0A-- =0ARob Elliott, elliott@hp.com =0AHewlett-Packard=
 Industry Standard Server Storage Advanced Technology =0Ahttps://ecardfile.=
com/id/RobElliott =0A=0A =0A=0A=0AFrom: Robert Snively [mailto:rsnively@Bro=
cade.COM] =0ASent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 4:46 PM=0ATo: Elliott, Rober=
t (Server Storage); ips@ietf.org=0ASubject: RE: [Ips] Response Fence Flag=
=0A=0A=0AI need a little tutorial here.  Note that this is an architectural=
 hack that=0Ais very "un-SCSI" and is not required if the response is quali=
fied with identification=0Ainformation associated with the original request=
.  I know that such qualification=0Aexists for commands, but does it exist =
for task management requests in=0AiSCSI?  =0A =0AI know that it does exist =
for parallel SCSI (which is strictly interlocked)=0Aand for SAS and Fibre C=
hannel SCSI, making such "fences" unrequired by=0Athose technologies.=0A =
=0ANote that Rob's previous revision of 06-341 is available on www.t10.org.=
=0A =0AI would hate to see such a hack creep into the SCSI architecture.=0A=
 =0ABob=0A =0A=0A=0A=0A=0AFrom: Elliott, Robert (Server Storage) [mailto:El=
liott@hp.com] =0ASent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 1:56 PM=0ATo: ips@ietf.o=
rg=0ASubject: RE: [Ips] Response Fence Flag=0A=0A=0AIf T10 agrees, T10 prop=
osal 06-341 will add it to SAM-4.=0A =0A-- =0ARob Elliott, elliott@hp.com =
=0AHewlett-Packard Industry Standard Server Storage Advanced Technology =0A=
https://ecardfile.com/id/RobElliott =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AFrom: Eddy Quicksa=
ll [mailto:Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net] =0ASent: Wednesday, January 03, 2=
007 2:00 PM=0ATo: ips@ietf.org=0ASubject: [Ips] Response Fence Flag=0A=0A=
=0ASection 3.3.1 talks about a Response Fence Flag:=0A =0ASCSI protocol lay=
er instructs the SCSI transport layer of a =0A"Response Fence" associated w=
ith the response in question when =0Athe "Send Command Complete" protocol d=
ata service (SAM-2, clause =0A5.4.2) ...=0A =0ABut I don't see any referenc=
e to that in SAM-2.=0A =0AIs this strictly an iSCSI flag? Where is the flag=
 specified?=0A =0AEddy=0A=0A=0A=0A_________________________________________=
______=0AIps mailing list=0AIps@ietf.org=0Ahttps://www1.ietf.org/mailman/li=
stinfo/ips=0A=0A_______________________________________________=0AIps maili=
ng list=0AIps@ietf.org=0Ahttps://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ips=0A=0A__=
________________________________________________=0ADo You Yahoo!?=0ATired o=
f spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around =0Ahttp://mail.yah=
oo.com 
--0-329000160-1168020489=:17178
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<html><head><style type=3D"text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;} --></style></he=
ad><body><div style=3D"font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;=
font-size:12pt"><DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman=
, new york, times, serif">Not really.&nbsp; Current draft text is intention=
ally written to not have any dependencies on T10 dynamics.&nbsp; The point =
is that iSCSI needs such a notion for succinctly describing the&nbsp;proper=
&nbsp;iSCSI protocol actions in a few places - ACA, TMF, Persistent reserve=
/Abort to name a few.&nbsp; We certainly hope it will be approved by T10 an=
d be a part of SAM-4 soon, but&nbsp;that isn't required per se for describi=
ng what iSCSI needs for its correct behavior.</DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SI=
ZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif">&nbsp;</DIV=
>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, =
times, serif">IPS WG has adopted what it needs&nbsp;in the past&nbsp;- stay=
ing ahead of T10 review/approval cycle if necessary.&nbsp; I_T nexus loss n=
otification, iSCSI target/port naming, clearing effects are a few I recall.=
</DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new y=
ork, times, serif">&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMIL=
Y: times new roman, new york, times, serif">Mallikarjun</DIV>=0A<DIV style=
=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif">=
<BR><BR>&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times ne=
w roman, new york, times, serif">----- Original Message ----<BR>From: Eddy =
Quicksall &lt;Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net&gt;<BR>To: Robert Snively &lt;r=
snively@Brocade.COM&gt;; "Elliott, Robert (Server Storage)" &lt;Elliott@hp.=
com&gt;; ips@ietf.org<BR>Sent: Friday, January 5, 2007 8:58:47 AM<BR>Subjec=
t: Re: [Ips] Response Fence Flag<BR><BR>=0A<STYLE></STYLE>=0A=0A<DIV><FONT =
size=3D2>From an earlier email I think&nbsp;that&nbsp;Response Fence is onl=
y a proposal in T10 (<A href=3D"http://www.t10.org/doc06.htm" target=3D_bla=
nk rel=3Dnofollow>http://www.t10.org:80/doc06.htm</A>). If so shouldn't iSC=
SI wait a bit until this has been ratified?</FONT></DIV>=0A<DIV><FONT size=
=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Eddy</FONT></DIV>=0A<BLOCKQU=
OTE style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDE=
R-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt a=
rial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4=
e4; FONT: 10pt arial"><B>From:</B> <A title=3Drsnively@Brocade.COM href=3D"=
mailto:rsnively@Brocade.COM" target=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow>Robert Snively<=
/A> </DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=3DElliott@=
hp.com href=3D"mailto:Elliott@hp.com" target=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow>Elliot=
t, Robert (Server Storage)</A> ; <A title=3Dips@ietf.org href=3D"mailto:ips=
@ietf.org" target=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow>ips@ietf.org</A> </DIV>=0A<DIV st=
yle=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, January 04, 2007 1:01 PM</D=
IV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: [Ips] Response Fe=
nce Flag</DIV>=0A<DIV><BR></DIV>=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=
=3D082204116-04012007><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>The probl=
em is that the definition of "previous" in this context is most likely flaw=
ed.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D0822041=
16-04012007><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp=
;</DIV>=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FON=
T face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>The&nbsp;"Response Fence" is merely=
 an internal and untestable state machine input that</FONT></SPAN></DIV>=0A=
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT face=3DA=
rial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>attempts to order the transmission of respons=
es&nbsp;in the target port's queue.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr al=
ign=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#000=
0ff size=3D2>It&nbsp;</FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007>&nbsp;<=
FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>does nothing to improve the over=
all ordering of the responses at the application</FONT></SPAN></DIV>=0A<DIV=
 dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT face=3DArial=
 color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>client.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr alig=
n=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000f=
f size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN c=
lass=3D082204116-04012007><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Drive=
rs for generic SCSI transports must always be aware that requested operatio=
ns</FONT></SPAN></DIV>=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D08220411=
6-04012007><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>report completion wi=
th a more or less arbitrary time relationship to each other and must be</FO=
NT></SPAN></DIV>=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-0401=
2007><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>designed to tolerate that.=
&nbsp; </FONT></SPAN></DIV>=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082=
204116-04012007><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&=
nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007>=
<FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Using LOGICAL UNIT RESET as an =
example, the operation does not act only on</FONT></SPAN></DIV>=0A<DIV dir=
=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT face=3DArial col=
or=3D#0000ff size=3D2>the device server.&nbsp; As it passes down through th=
e initiator stack, it may clean out</FONT></SPAN></DIV>=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr al=
ign=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#000=
0ff size=3D2>previously offered commands that have not yet been transported=
.&nbsp; Then as it</FONT></SPAN></DIV>=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN =
class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>pass=
es up through the target stack, it may clean out previously offered command=
s</FONT></SPAN></DIV>=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116=
-04012007><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>that have not yet bee=
n operated on.&nbsp; As it passes through the device server</FONT></SPAN></=
DIV>=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT f=
ace=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>execution path, it may clean out previ=
ously offered commands that have begun</FONT></SPAN></DIV>=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr=
 align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#=
0000ff size=3D2>execution and&nbsp;some that have completed execution witho=
ut yet responding.&nbsp; As its </FONT></SPAN></DIV>=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr align=
=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=
 size=3D2>response passes back down the target stack, it may clean up comma=
nds</FONT></SPAN></DIV>=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D0822041=
16-04012007><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>that have completed=
 for which the response has not yet been transmitted, and as</FONT></SPAN><=
/DIV>=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT =
face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>it passes back up the initiator stack=
, it may clean up commands for which the</FONT></SPAN></DIV>=0A<DIV dir=3Dl=
tr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT face=3DArial color=
=3D#0000ff size=3D2>response has been transmitted, but not yet been made av=
ailable to the driver or</FONT></SPAN></DIV>=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>=
<SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D=
2>application.&nbsp; SAM-4 attempts to define the passage through the targe=
t port,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082=
204116-04012007><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>through the dev=
ice server, and back to the target port.&nbsp; However, beyond the</FONT></=
SPAN></DIV>=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D2=
><FONT color=3D#0000ff><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007>initiator port is o=
utside the SAM-4 scope, and even where it is defined,</SPAN></FONT></FONT><=
/FONT></DIV>=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D=
2><FONT color=3D#0000ff><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007>the "shall ensure"=
s are unlikely to be testable and in some cases not implementable.</SPAN><S=
PAN class=3D082204116-04012007>&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>=0A<=
DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT face=3DAr=
ial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr al=
ign=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#000=
0ff size=3D2>Will I sometimes get command complete indications for commands=
 after</FONT></SPAN></DIV>=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial=
><FONT size=3D2><FONT color=3D#0000ff><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007>a LO=
GICAL UNIT RESET response is received</SPAN><SPAN class=3D082204116-0401200=
7>?&nbsp; You bet.&nbsp;&nbsp;Response Fence&nbsp;doesn't</SPAN></FONT></FO=
NT></FONT></DIV>=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-0401=
2007><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>change that.</FONT></SPAN>=
</DIV>=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT=
 face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV di=
r=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT face=3DArial co=
lor=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Will I sometimes </FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=3D0822041=
16-04012007><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>get command aborted=
 indications for commands </FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><F=
ONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>after </FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=
=3D082204116-04012007><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>a </FONT>=
</SPAN></DIV>=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-0401200=
7><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>LOGICAL UNIT RESET&nbsp;is re=
sponse is received?&nbsp; You bet.&nbsp; Response Fence</FONT></SPAN></DIV>=
=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT face=
=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>doesn't change that.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>=
=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT face=
=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV dir=3Dl=
tr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT face=3DArial color=
=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Is this a problem?&nbsp; It never </FONT></SPAN><SPAN c=
lass=3D082204116-04012007><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>has b=
een in the past, why is it now?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr align=
=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=
 size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN cl=
ass=3D082204116-04012007><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Can yo=
u test the corner conditions for a fence operation?&nbsp; I doubt it.&nbsp;=
 The</FONT></SPAN></DIV>=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204=
116-04012007><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>existence of the "=
Response Fence" argument is internal to the target</FONT></SPAN></DIV>=0A<D=
IV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT face=3DAri=
al color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>implementation and invisible to testing.</FONT>=
</SPAN></DIV>=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-0401200=
7><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>=0A=
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT face=3DA=
rial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Bob</FONT></SPAN></DIV>=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr alig=
n=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D082204116-04012007><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000f=
f size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV><BR>=0A<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHead=
er lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>=0A<HR tabIndex=3D-1>=0A<FONT face=
=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> Elliott, Robert (Server Storage) [mailto:El=
liott@hp.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, January 03, 2007 3:35 PM<BR><B>To=
:</B> ips@ietf.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: [Ips] Response Fence Flag<BR></FO=
NT><BR></DIV>=0A<DIV></DIV>=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>=0A<P align=3Dlef=
t><FONT face=3DArial><FONT color=3D#0000ff><FONT size=3D2><SPAN class=3D381=
195622-03012007>SAM-3 and SAM-4 require all transport protocols to tag the =
TMF responses with the requests:</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></P>=0A<P align=
=3Dleft><FONT size=3D+0><FONT size=3D+0><SPAN class=3D381195622-03012007></=
SPAN><FONT face=3DArial><FONT color=3D#0000ff><FONT size=3D2><SPAN class=3D=
381195622-03012007>"</SPAN>Each SCSI transport protocol shall allow a <B>Re=
ceived Task Management Function Executed </B>confirming<SPAN class=3D381195=
622-03012007> </SPAN>completion of the requested task to be associated with=
 the corresponding <B>Send Task Management Request</B>.<SPAN class=3D381195=
622-03012007>"</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></P>=0A<P align=3Dl=
eft><FONT size=3D+0><FONT size=3D+0><FONT face=3DArial><FONT color=3D#0000f=
f><FONT size=3D2><SPAN class=3D381195622-03012007>Although iSCSI was based =
on SAM-2, it complies with that rule. The Fence concept is asking for more =
than that - it wants the target to be able to ensure that all previous comm=
ands/TMFs are complete before delivering a particular TMF response (e.g., f=
or a LOGICAL UNIT RESET).&nbsp; Since iSCSI doesn't have ACKs, the target m=
ust wait for the next PDU from the initiator with an updated ExpStatSN.</SP=
AN></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></P>=0A<P align=3Dleft><FONT size=3D+=
0><FONT size=3D+0><FONT face=3DArial><FONT color=3D#0000ff><FONT size=3D2><=
SPAN class=3D381195622-03012007>06-341r0 discussed an alternative - add a D=
elivery Resu</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT><FONT size=3D+0><FONT=
 size=3D+0><FONT face=3DArial><FONT color=3D#0000ff><FONT size=3D2><SPAN cl=
ass=3D381195622-03012007>lt output to the Send Command Complete and Task Ma=
nagement Function Executed confirmations (as previously proposed in 04-072r=
0 for a different purpose). This would let the device server/task manager&n=
bsp;wait for all&nbsp;the previous commands/TMF responses to complete (be A=
CKed) before proceeding to make additional calls (e.g., Task Management Fun=
ction Executed for a LOGICAL UNIT RESET).</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT=
></FONT></P>=0A<P align=3Dleft><FONT size=3D+0><FONT size=3D+0><FONT face=
=3DArial><FONT color=3D#0000ff><FONT size=3D2><SPAN class=3D381195622-03012=
007>However, iSCSI allows the target port to send a NOP-IN to force deliver=
y of a NOP-OUT with&nbsp;ExpStatSN, rather than passively wait for a PDU to=
 show up.&nbsp; The device server/task manager must instruct the target por=
t when to do this, and&nbsp;the Request Fence argument serves that purpose.=
&nbsp; Target ports using protocols without such a force mechanism are stil=
l OK - they will just wait for protocol-specific delivery confirmations (e.=
g. ACKs).</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT><FONT size=3D+0><FONT si=
ze=3D+0><FONT face=3DArial><FONT color=3D#0000ff><FONT size=3D2><SPAN class=
=3D381195622-03012007></P>=0A<P><SPAN lang=3Den-us><FONT face=3DArial size=
=3D2>--</FONT></SPAN> <BR><SPAN lang=3Den-us><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Ro=
b Elliott, elliott@hp.com</FONT></SPAN> <BR><SPAN lang=3Den-us><FONT face=
=3DArial size=3D2>Hewlett-Packard Industry Standard Server Storage Advanced=
 Technology</FONT></SPAN> <BR><SPAN lang=3Den-us><FONT face=3DArial size=3D=
2><A href=3D"https://ecardfile.com/id/RobElliott" target=3D_blank rel=3Dnof=
ollow>https://ecardfile.com/id/RobElliott</A></FONT></SPAN> </P>=0A<P align=
=3Dleft><BR></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</P></DIV>=0A<B=
LOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LE=
FT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">=0A<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHea=
der lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>=0A<HR tabIndex=3D-1>=0A<FONT face=
=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> Robert Snively [mailto:rsnively@Brocade.COM=
] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, January 03, 2007 4:46 PM<BR><B>To:</B> Elliot=
t, Robert (Server Storage); ips@ietf.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: [Ips] Respo=
nse Fence Flag<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>=0A<DIV></DIV>=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3D=
left><SPAN class=3D364133022-03012007><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff si=
ze=3D2>I need a little tutorial here.&nbsp; Note that this is an architectu=
ral hack that</FONT></SPAN></DIV>=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=
=3D364133022-03012007><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>is very "=
un-SCSI" and is not required if the response is qualified with identificati=
on</FONT></SPAN></DIV>=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D36413302=
2-03012007><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>information associat=
ed with the original request.&nbsp; I know that such qualification</FONT></=
SPAN></DIV>=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D364133022-03012007>=
<FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>exists for commands, but does i=
t exist for task management requests in</FONT></SPAN></DIV>=0A<DIV dir=3Dlt=
r align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D364133022-03012007><FONT face=3DArial color=3D=
#0000ff size=3D2>iSCSI?&nbsp; </FONT></SPAN></DIV>=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr align=
=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D364133022-03012007><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=
 size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN cl=
ass=3D364133022-03012007><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>I know=
 that it does exist for parallel SCSI (which is strictly interlocked)</FONT=
></SPAN></DIV>=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D364133022-030120=
07><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>and for SAS and Fibre Channe=
l SCSI, making such "fences" unrequired by</FONT></SPAN></DIV>=0A<DIV dir=
=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D364133022-03012007><FONT face=3DArial col=
or=3D#0000ff size=3D2>those technologies.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>=0A<DIV dir=3D=
ltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D364133022-03012007><FONT face=3DArial color=
=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dlef=
t><SPAN class=3D364133022-03012007><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=
=3D2>Note that Rob's previous revision of 06-341 is available on <A href=3D=
"http://www.t10.org/" target=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow>www.t10.org</A>.</FONT=
></SPAN></DIV>=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D364133022-030120=
07><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>=
=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D364133022-03012007><FONT face=
=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>I would hate to see such a hack creep int=
o the SCSI architecture.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>=
<SPAN class=3D364133022-03012007><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D=
2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D36=
4133022-03012007><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Bob</FONT></SP=
AN></DIV>=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D364133022-03012007><F=
ONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV><BR>=0A=
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>=0A<H=
R tabIndex=3D-1>=0A<FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> Elliott, Rober=
t (Server Storage) [mailto:Elliott@hp.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, Janu=
ary 03, 2007 1:56 PM<BR><B>To:</B> ips@ietf.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: [Ips=
] Response Fence Flag<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>=0A<DIV></DIV>=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr a=
lign=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN class=3D97431=
5421-03012007>If T10 agrees, T10 proposal 06-341 will add it to SAM-4.</SPA=
N></FONT></DIV>=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0=
000ff size=3D2><SPAN class=3D974315421-03012007></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>=
=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>=
<SPAN class=3D974315421-03012007>=0A<P><SPAN lang=3Den-us><FONT face=3DAria=
l size=3D2>--</FONT></SPAN> <BR><SPAN lang=3Den-us><FONT face=3DArial size=
=3D2>Rob Elliott, elliott@hp.com</FONT></SPAN> <BR><SPAN lang=3Den-us><FONT=
 face=3DArial size=3D2>Hewlett-Packard Industry Standard Server Storage Adv=
anced Technology</FONT></SPAN> <BR><SPAN lang=3Den-us><FONT face=3DArial si=
ze=3D2><A href=3D"https://ecardfile.com/id/RobElliott" target=3D_blank rel=
=3Dnofollow>https://ecardfile.com/id/RobElliott</A></FONT></SPAN> </P><BR><=
/SPAN></FONT></DIV><BR>=0A<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px;=
 MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">=0A<D=
IV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>=0A<HR =
tabIndex=3D-1>=0A<FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> Eddy Quicksall [=
mailto:Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, January 0=
3, 2007 2:00 PM<BR><B>To:</B> ips@ietf.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> [Ips] Respons=
e Fence Flag<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>=0A<DIV></DIV>=0A<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Secti=
on 3.3.1 talks about a Response Fence Flag:</FONT></DIV>=0A<DIV><FONT size=
=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV>SCSI protocol layer instructs the SCSI tran=
sport layer of a <BR>"Response Fence" associated with the response in quest=
ion when <BR>the "Send Command Complete" protocol data service (SAM-2, clau=
se <BR>5.4.2) ...</DIV>=0A<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV><FONT size=3D2>But I don=
't see any reference to that in SAM-2.</FONT></DIV>=0A<DIV><FONT size=3D2><=
/FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Is this strictly an iSCSI flag? Wh=
ere is the flag specified?</FONT></DIV>=0A<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;=
</DIV>=0A<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Eddy</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>=0A=
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Eddy,

It was stated here several times already that the general rule in RFCs is 
that sender has to be strict and the receiver lenient.
It is however really difficult to say what exactly lenient means (as it is 
very much dependent on implementations). The rules are stated in terms of 
what a sender must do.
It is also obvious that draft authors would be reluctant to make a blanket 
statement of the receiver not being manadated to check (as in some case 
that might be blatantly incorrect). Just to give you an example - would it 
be acceptable to say that a sender has to put a correct CRC in the frame 
but the receiver is free not to check it ?
A blanket statement like the one you requested would cover such a 
behaviour too (that would be obviously incorect). Perhaps a statement 
along the lines of what Paul suggest ed with  the caveat -"as long as it 
does not violate an explicit rule" should be enough.

Regards,
Julo



"Eddy Quicksall" <Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net> 
05/01/07 11:25

To
"Paul Koning" <pkoning@equallogic.com>, <cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com>
cc
ips@ietf.org
Subject
Re: [Ips] iSCSI Implementer's Guide - WG Last Call status






I remember long ago talking about this when we were developing the RFC. I 
remember some people clearly saying that if the RFC said "must do X" then 
it 
meant that the peer "must check X". I didn't pursue the issue because it 
seemed to be of little importance.

But as time went on and the draft got finalized, I ran into cases where 
that 
view was still taken to hart. Of course "the customer is always right" so 
I 
added checks.

More recently I thought that since this guide was being written that maybe 
a 
simple statement could be made to clarify the issue.

I'm not debating the issue of the importance of making a check or even the 

criteria for making the check.

Eddy

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Paul Koning" <pkoning@equallogic.com>
To: <cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com>
Cc: <ips@ietf.org>
Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 6:00 PM
Subject: Re: [Ips] iSCSI Implementer's Guide - WG Last Call status


>>>>>> "Mallikarjun" == Mallikarjun C <cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com> writes:
>
> Mallikarjun> Paul, Agree with everything you wrote.
>
> Mallikarjun> RFC 3720 does not require sane reactions to non-sane
> Mallikarjun> inputs.  This draft should not say anything that
> Mallikarjun> suggests target/initiator may draw sane interpretations
> Mallikarjun> to non-sane inputs either.
>
> Great summary.
>
> Mallikarjun> Sounds like an agreement to not add any new text to me.
>
> Well, Eddy raised the issue a while back that some people writing
> conformance tests were interpreting "initiator must do X" as "target
> must check that initiator does X".  That's clearly an incorrect
> conclusion.  But given that people make this mistake, I wonder if a
> note in the guide saying "unless RFC 3720 specifically requires it, an
> implementation is not required to do protocol conformance checking on
> incoming message", or something like that, would be helpful.
>
>      paul
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ips mailing list
> Ips@ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ips
> 


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<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Eddy,</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">It was stated here several times already
that the general rule in RFCs is that sender has to be strict and the receiver
lenient.</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">It is however really difficult to say
what exactly lenient means (as it is very much dependent on implementations).
The rules are stated in terms of what a sender must do.</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">It is also obvious that draft authors
would be reluctant to make a blanket statement of the receiver not being
manadated to check (as in some case that might be blatantly incorrect).
Just to give you an example - would it be acceptable to say that a sender
has to put a correct CRC in the frame but the receiver is free not to check
it ?</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">A blanket statement like the one you
requested would cover such a behaviour too (that would be obviously incorect).
Perhaps a statement along the lines of what Paul suggest ed with &nbsp;the
caveat -&quot;as long as it does not violate an explicit rule&quot; should
be enough.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Regards,</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Julo</font>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<table width=100%>
<tr valign=top>
<td width=40%><font size=1 face="sans-serif"><b>&quot;Eddy Quicksall&quot;
&lt;Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net&gt;</b> </font>
<p><font size=1 face="sans-serif">05/01/07 11:25</font>
<td width=59%>
<table width=100%>
<tr valign=top>
<td>
<div align=right><font size=1 face="sans-serif">To</font></div>
<td><font size=1 face="sans-serif">&quot;Paul Koning&quot; &lt;pkoning@equallogic.com&gt;,
&lt;cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com&gt;</font>
<tr valign=top>
<td>
<div align=right><font size=1 face="sans-serif">cc</font></div>
<td><font size=1 face="sans-serif">ips@ietf.org</font>
<tr valign=top>
<td>
<div align=right><font size=1 face="sans-serif">Subject</font></div>
<td><font size=1 face="sans-serif">Re: [Ips] iSCSI Implementer's Guide
- WG Last Call status</font></table>
<br>
<table>
<tr valign=top>
<td>
<td></table>
<br></table>
<br>
<br>
<br><tt><font size=2>I remember long ago talking about this when we were
developing the RFC. I <br>
remember some people clearly saying that if the RFC said &quot;must do
X&quot; then it <br>
meant that the peer &quot;must check X&quot;. I didn't pursue the issue
because it <br>
seemed to be of little importance.<br>
<br>
But as time went on and the draft got finalized, I ran into cases where
that <br>
view was still taken to hart. Of course &quot;the customer is always right&quot;
so I <br>
added checks.<br>
<br>
More recently I thought that since this guide was being written that maybe
a <br>
simple statement could be made to clarify the issue.<br>
<br>
I'm not debating the issue of the importance of making a check or even
the <br>
criteria for making the check.<br>
<br>
Eddy<br>
<br>
----- Original Message ----- <br>
From: &quot;Paul Koning&quot; &lt;pkoning@equallogic.com&gt;<br>
To: &lt;cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com&gt;<br>
Cc: &lt;ips@ietf.org&gt;<br>
Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 6:00 PM<br>
Subject: Re: [Ips] iSCSI Implementer's Guide - WG Last Call status<br>
<br>
<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &quot;Mallikarjun&quot; == Mallikarjun C &lt;cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com&gt;
writes:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Mallikarjun&gt; Paul, Agree with everything you wrote.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Mallikarjun&gt; RFC 3720 does not require sane reactions to non-sane<br>
&gt; Mallikarjun&gt; inputs. &nbsp;This draft should not say anything that<br>
&gt; Mallikarjun&gt; suggests target/initiator may draw sane interpretations<br>
&gt; Mallikarjun&gt; to non-sane inputs either.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Great summary.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Mallikarjun&gt; Sounds like an agreement to not add any new text to
me.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Well, Eddy raised the issue a while back that some people writing<br>
&gt; conformance tests were interpreting &quot;initiator must do X&quot;
as &quot;target<br>
&gt; must check that initiator does X&quot;. &nbsp;That's clearly an incorrect<br>
&gt; conclusion. &nbsp;But given that people make this mistake, I wonder
if a<br>
&gt; note in the guide saying &quot;unless RFC 3720 specifically requires
it, an<br>
&gt; implementation is not required to do protocol conformance checking
on<br>
&gt; incoming message&quot;, or something like that, would be helpful.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;paul<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt; Ips mailing list<br>
&gt; Ips@ietf.org<br>
&gt; https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ips<br>
&gt; <br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Ips mailing list<br>
Ips@ietf.org<br>
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ips<br>
</font></tt>
<br>
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Mallikarjun,

I must admit, that I have been a bit confused with the direction of the
conversation here.

=20

Therefore, I went back and reviewed the charts from Dallas.  And as I
remembered, the initial focus was to address the issue of Multiple
Connections per Session (MC/S) (as stated on chart 4 - "Non-issue for
single-connection iSCSI sessions").  So I think I have missed the step
where we have morphed the discussion into one dealing with multiple
sessions.  (I am not sure how that happened, or if I miss-read the
charts from Dallas, or have not followed the discussion adequately.)

=20

If we are attempting to define two different issues, one with MC/S and
one with Multiple Session from different Initiators, I think it would be
useful to break down the conversation into Topic A - MC/S and Topic B
Multiple Sessions.  It is possible that one solution will addresses
both, but I for one think I am hearing arguments that might be
appropriate for Topic B, while I am thinking about its applicability to
Topic A.

=20

Perhaps, you could address the issue as either being all about MC/S or
explicitly state that it is intended to affect Multiple Sessions also,
and then address the issues and solution for each separately.  For
example, I believe Robert was addressing the issue from a view of
Multiple Sessions and if we only intended to address MC/S then I expect
the response might be somewhat different.

=20

Anyway, if you could clear-up some of this, I think it would be useful
(at least to me).

=20

.

.

.

John L Hufferd

Sr. Executive Director of Technology

Brocade Communications Systems, Inc

jhufferd@brocade.com

Office Phone: (408) 333-5244; eFAX: (408) 904-4688

Alt Office Phone: (408) 997-6136; Cell: (408) 627-9606

=20

________________________________

From: Mallikarjun C. [mailto:cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com]=20
Sent: Friday, January 05, 2007 10:08 AM
To: ips@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Ips] Response Fence Flag

=20

Not really.  Current draft text is intentionally written to not have any
dependencies on T10 dynamics.  The point is that iSCSI needs such a
notion for succinctly describing the proper iSCSI protocol actions in a
few places - ACA, TMF, Persistent reserve/Abort to name a few.  We
certainly hope it will be approved by T10 and be a part of SAM-4 soon,
but that isn't required per se for describing what iSCSI needs for its
correct behavior.

=20

IPS WG has adopted what it needs in the past - staying ahead of T10
review/approval cycle if necessary.  I_T nexus loss notification, iSCSI
target/port naming, clearing effects are a few I recall.

=20

Mallikarjun



=20

----- Original Message ----
From: Eddy Quicksall <Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net>
To: Robert Snively <rsnively@Brocade.COM>; "Elliott, Robert (Server
Storage)" <Elliott@hp.com>; ips@ietf.org
Sent: Friday, January 5, 2007 8:58:47 AM
Subject: Re: [Ips] Response Fence Flag

>From an earlier email I think that Response Fence is only a proposal in
T10 (http://www.t10.org:80/doc06.htm <http://www.t10.org/doc06.htm> ).
If so shouldn't iSCSI wait a bit until this has been ratified?

=20

Eddy

	----- Original Message -----=20

	From: Robert Snively <mailto:rsnively@Brocade.COM> =20

	To: Elliott, Robert (Server Storage) <mailto:Elliott@hp.com>  ;
ips@ietf.org=20

	Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 1:01 PM

	Subject: RE: [Ips] Response Fence Flag

	=20

	The problem is that the definition of "previous" in this context
is most likely flawed.

	=20

	The "Response Fence" is merely an internal and untestable state
machine input that

	attempts to order the transmission of responses in the target
port's queue.

	It  does nothing to improve the overall ordering of the
responses at the application

	client.

	=20

	Drivers for generic SCSI transports must always be aware that
requested operations

	report completion with a more or less arbitrary time
relationship to each other and must be

	designed to tolerate that. =20

	=20

	Using LOGICAL UNIT RESET as an example, the operation does not
act only on

	the device server.  As it passes down through the initiator
stack, it may clean out

	previously offered commands that have not yet been transported.
Then as it

	passes up through the target stack, it may clean out previously
offered commands

	that have not yet been operated on.  As it passes through the
device server

	execution path, it may clean out previously offered commands
that have begun

	execution and some that have completed execution without yet
responding.  As its=20

	response passes back down the target stack, it may clean up
commands

	that have completed for which the response has not yet been
transmitted, and as

	it passes back up the initiator stack, it may clean up commands
for which the

	response has been transmitted, but not yet been made available
to the driver or

	application.  SAM-4 attempts to define the passage through the
target port,

	through the device server, and back to the target port.
However, beyond the

	initiator port is outside the SAM-4 scope, and even where it is
defined,

	the "shall ensure"s are unlikely to be testable and in some
cases not implementable.=20

	=20

	Will I sometimes get command complete indications for commands
after

	a LOGICAL UNIT RESET response is received?  You bet.  Response
Fence doesn't

	change that.

	=20

	Will I sometimes get command aborted indications for commands
after a=20

	LOGICAL UNIT RESET is response is received?  You bet.  Response
Fence

	doesn't change that.

	=20

	Is this a problem?  It never has been in the past, why is it
now?

	=20

	Can you test the corner conditions for a fence operation?  I
doubt it.  The

	existence of the "Response Fence" argument is internal to the
target

	implementation and invisible to testing.

	=20

	Bob

	=20

	=20

=09
________________________________


	From: Elliott, Robert (Server Storage) [mailto:Elliott@hp.com]=20
	Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 3:35 PM
	To: ips@ietf.org
	Subject: RE: [Ips] Response Fence Flag

	SAM-3 and SAM-4 require all transport protocols to tag the TMF
responses with the requests:

	"Each SCSI transport protocol shall allow a Received Task
Management Function Executed confirming completion of the requested task
to be associated with the corresponding Send Task Management Request."

	Although iSCSI was based on SAM-2, it complies with that rule.
The Fence concept is asking for more than that - it wants the target to
be able to ensure that all previous commands/TMFs are complete before
delivering a particular TMF response (e.g., for a LOGICAL UNIT RESET).
Since iSCSI doesn't have ACKs, the target must wait for the next PDU
from the initiator with an updated ExpStatSN.

	06-341r0 discussed an alternative - add a Delivery Result output
to the Send Command Complete and Task Management Function Executed
confirmations (as previously proposed in 04-072r0 for a different
purpose). This would let the device server/task manager wait for all the
previous commands/TMF responses to complete (be ACKed) before proceeding
to make additional calls (e.g., Task Management Function Executed for a
LOGICAL UNIT RESET).

	However, iSCSI allows the target port to send a NOP-IN to force
delivery of a NOP-OUT with ExpStatSN, rather than passively wait for a
PDU to show up.  The device server/task manager must instruct the target
port when to do this, and the Request Fence argument serves that
purpose.  Target ports using protocols without such a force mechanism
are still OK - they will just wait for protocol-specific delivery
confirmations (e.g. ACKs).

	--=20
	Rob Elliott, elliott@hp.com=20
	Hewlett-Packard Industry Standard Server Storage Advanced
Technology=20
	https://ecardfile.com/id/RobElliott=20

=09
	=20

	=09
________________________________


		From: Robert Snively [mailto:rsnively@Brocade.COM]=20
		Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 4:46 PM
		To: Elliott, Robert (Server Storage); ips@ietf.org
		Subject: RE: [Ips] Response Fence Flag

		I need a little tutorial here.  Note that this is an
architectural hack that

		is very "un-SCSI" and is not required if the response is
qualified with identification

		information associated with the original request.  I
know that such qualification

		exists for commands, but does it exist for task
management requests in

		iSCSI? =20

		=20

		I know that it does exist for parallel SCSI (which is
strictly interlocked)

		and for SAS and Fibre Channel SCSI, making such "fences"
unrequired by

		those technologies.

		=20

		Note that Rob's previous revision of 06-341 is available
on www.t10.org <http://www.t10.org/> .

		=20

		I would hate to see such a hack creep into the SCSI
architecture.

		=20

		Bob

		=20

		=20

	=09
________________________________


		From: Elliott, Robert (Server Storage)
[mailto:Elliott@hp.com]=20
		Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 1:56 PM
		To: ips@ietf.org
		Subject: RE: [Ips] Response Fence Flag

		If T10 agrees, T10 proposal 06-341 will add it to SAM-4.

		=20

		--=20
		Rob Elliott, elliott@hp.com=20
		Hewlett-Packard Industry Standard Server Storage
Advanced Technology=20
		https://ecardfile.com/id/RobElliott=20

		=20

			=20

		=09
________________________________


			From: Eddy Quicksall
[mailto:Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net]=20
			Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 2:00 PM
			To: ips@ietf.org
			Subject: [Ips] Response Fence Flag

			Section 3.3.1 talks about a Response Fence Flag:

			=20

			SCSI protocol layer instructs the SCSI transport
layer of a=20
			"Response Fence" associated with the response in
question when=20
			the "Send Command Complete" protocol data
service (SAM-2, clause=20
			5.4.2) ...

			=20

			But I don't see any reference to that in SAM-2.

			=20

			Is this strictly an iSCSI flag? Where is the
flag specified?

			=20

			Eddy

	_______________________________________________
	Ips mailing list
	Ips@ietf.org
	https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ips

_______________________________________________
Ips mailing list
Ips@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ips

=20


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around=20
http://mail.yahoo.com=20


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<body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vlink=3Dblue>

<div class=3DSection1>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Mallikarjun,<o:p></o:p></span></font=
></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I must admit, that I have been a =
bit confused
with the direction of the conversation =
here.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Therefore, I went back and reviewed =
the
charts from <st1:City w:st=3D"on"><st1:place =
w:st=3D"on">Dallas</st1:place></st1:City>.
&nbsp;And as I remembered, the initial focus was to address the issue of
Multiple Connections per Session (MC/S) (as stated on chart 4 &#8211; =
&#8220;Non-issue
for single-connection iSCSI sessions&#8221;). &nbsp;So I think I have =
missed
the step where we have morphed the discussion into one dealing with =
multiple
sessions. &nbsp;(I am not sure how that happened, or if I miss-read the =
charts
from <st1:City w:st=3D"on"><st1:place =
w:st=3D"on">Dallas</st1:place></st1:City>, or
have not followed the discussion =
adequately.)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>If we are attempting to define two
different issues, one with MC/S and one with Multiple Session from =
different Initiators,
I think it would be useful to break down the conversation into Topic A =
&#8211;
MC/S and Topic B Multiple Sessions. &nbsp;It is possible that one =
solution will
addresses both, but I for one think I am hearing arguments that might be =
appropriate
for Topic B, while I am thinking about its applicability to Topic =
A.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Perhaps, you could address the =
issue as
either being all about MC/S or explicitly state that it is intended to =
affect
Multiple Sessions also, and then address the issues and solution for =
each separately.&nbsp;
For example, I believe Robert was addressing the issue from a view of =
Multiple
Sessions and if we only intended to address MC/S then I expect the =
response
might be somewhat different.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Anyway, if you could clear-up some =
of this,
I think it would be useful (at least to =
me).<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>.</span></font><font =
color=3Dnavy><span
style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>.</span></font><font =
color=3Dnavy><span
style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>.</span></font><font =
color=3Dnavy><span
style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>John L Hufferd</span></font><font
color=3Dnavy><span style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>Sr. Executive Director of =
Technology</span></font><font
color=3Dnavy><span style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>Brocade Communications Systems, =
Inc</span></font><font
color=3Dnavy><span style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'><a =
href=3D"mailto:jhufferd@brocade.com"
title=3D"mailto:jhufferd@brocade.com">jhufferd@brocade.com</a></span></fo=
nt><font
color=3Dnavy><span style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>Office Phone: (408) 333-5244; =
eFAX: (408) 904-4688</span></font><font
color=3Dnavy><span style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>Alt Office Phone: (408) 997-6136; =
Cell:
(408) 627-9606</span></font><font color=3Dnavy><span =
style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font =
size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>

<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font =
size=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> =
Mallikarjun C.
[mailto:cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com] <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Friday, January 05, =
2007
10:08 AM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> ips@ietf.org<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [Ips] =
Response Fence
Flag</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>Not really.&nbsp; Current draft text is intentionally written to =
not
have any dependencies on T10 dynamics.&nbsp; The point is that iSCSI =
needs such
a notion for succinctly describing the&nbsp;proper&nbsp;iSCSI protocol =
actions
in a few places - ACA, TMF, Persistent reserve/Abort to name a =
few.&nbsp; We
certainly hope it will be approved by T10 and be a part of SAM-4 soon,
but&nbsp;that isn't required per se for describing what iSCSI needs for =
its
correct behavior.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>IPS WG has adopted what it needs&nbsp;in the past&nbsp;- staying =
ahead
of T10 review/approval cycle if necessary.&nbsp; I_T nexus loss =
notification,
iSCSI target/port naming, clearing effects are a few I =
recall.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>Mallikarjun<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><br>
<br>
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>----- Original =
Message
----<br>
From: Eddy Quicksall &lt;Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net&gt;<br>
To: <st1:PersonName w:st=3D"on">Robert Snively</st1:PersonName>
&lt;rsnively@Brocade.COM&gt;; &quot;Elliott, Robert (Server =
Storage)&quot;
&lt;Elliott@hp.com&gt;; ips@ietf.org<br>
Sent: Friday, January 5, 2007 8:58:47 AM<br>
Subject: Re: [Ips] Response Fence Flag<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt'>From an earlier email I think&nbsp;that&nbsp;Response Fence is =
only a
proposal in T10 (<a href=3D"http://www.t10.org/doc06.htm" =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.t10.org:80/doc06.htm</a>).
If so shouldn't iSCSI wait a bit until this has been =
ratified?</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt'>Eddy</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid black =
1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'=
>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>----- Original Message ----- =
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:#E4E4E4'><b><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>From:</span=
></font></b><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href=3D"mailto:rsnively@Brocade.COM" target=3D"_blank" =
title=3D"rsnively@Brocade.COM">Robert
Snively</a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>To:</span></font></b><font size=3D2
face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href=3D"mailto:Elliott@hp.com" target=3D"_blank" =
title=3D"Elliott@hp.com">Elliott,
Robert (Server Storage)</a> ; <a href=3D"mailto:ips@ietf.org" =
target=3D"_blank"
title=3D"ips@ietf.org">ips@ietf.org</a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></font></b><font =
size=3D2
face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> =
Thursday, January
04, 2007 1:01 PM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></font></b><font =
size=3D2
face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> RE: =
[Ips] Response
Fence Flag<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>The problem is that the definition =
of
&quot;previous&quot; in this context is most likely =
flawed.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>The&nbsp;&quot;Response Fence&quot; =
is
merely an internal and untestable state machine input =
that</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>attempts to order the transmission =
of
responses&nbsp;in the target port's queue.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>It&nbsp;</span></font>&nbsp;<font =
size=3D2
color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:blue'>does nothing to improve the overall ordering of the =
responses at
the application</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>client.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>=


<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Drivers for generic SCSI transports =
must
always be aware that requested operations</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>report completion with a more or =
less
arbitrary time relationship to each other and must =
be</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>designed to tolerate that.&nbsp; =
</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Using LOGICAL UNIT RESET as an =
example,
the operation does not act only on</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>the device server.&nbsp; As it =
passes down
through the initiator stack, it may clean =
out</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>previously offered commands that =
have not
yet been transported.&nbsp; Then as it</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>passes up through the target stack, =
it may
clean out previously offered commands</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>that have not yet been operated =
on.&nbsp;
As it passes through the device server</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>execution path, it may clean out
previously offered commands that have begun</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>execution and&nbsp;some that have
completed execution without yet responding.&nbsp; As its =
</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>response passes back down the =
target
stack, it may clean up commands</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>that have completed for which the =
response
has not yet been transmitted, and as</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>it passes back up the initiator =
stack, it
may clean up commands for which the</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>response has been transmitted, but =
not yet
been made available to the driver or</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>application.&nbsp; SAM-4 attempts =
to
define the passage through the target port,</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>through the device server, and back =
to the
target port.&nbsp; However, beyond the</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>initiator port is outside the SAM-4 =
scope,
and even where it is defined,</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>the &quot;shall ensure&quot;s are =
unlikely
to be testable and in some cases not =
implementable.&nbsp;</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Will I sometimes get command =
complete
indications for commands after</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>a LOGICAL UNIT RESET response is
received?&nbsp; You bet.&nbsp;&nbsp;Response =
Fence&nbsp;doesn't</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>change =
that.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Will I sometimes get command =
aborted
indications for commands after a </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>LOGICAL UNIT RESET&nbsp;is response =
is received?&nbsp;
You bet.&nbsp; Response Fence</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>doesn't change =
that.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Is this a problem?&nbsp; It never =
has been
in the past, why is it now?</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Can you test the corner conditions =
for a
fence operation?&nbsp; I doubt it.&nbsp; =
The</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>existence of the &quot;Response
Fence&quot; argument is internal to the =
target</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>implementation and invisible to =
testing.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Bob</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font =
size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>

<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabIndex=3D-1>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><font size=3D2 =
face=3DTahoma><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</spa=
n></font></b><font
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> Elliott,
Robert (Server Storage) [mailto:Elliott@hp.com] <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, January =
03, 2007
3:35 PM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> ips@ietf.org<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: [Ips] =
Response Fence
Flag</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:blue'>SAM-3 and SAM-4 require all transport protocols to tag =
the
TMF responses with the requests:</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:blue'>&quot;Each SCSI transport protocol shall allow a =
<b><span
style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Received Task Management Function Executed =
</span></b>confirming
completion of the requested task to be associated with the corresponding =
<b><span
style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Send Task Management =
Request</span></b>.&quot;</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:blue'>Although iSCSI was based on SAM-2, it complies with =
that
rule. The Fence concept is asking for more than that - it wants the =
target to
be able to ensure that all previous commands/TMFs are complete before
delivering a particular TMF response (e.g., for a LOGICAL UNIT =
RESET).&nbsp;
Since iSCSI doesn't have ACKs, the target must wait for the next PDU =
from the
initiator with an updated ExpStatSN.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:blue'>06-341r0 discussed an alternative - add a Delivery =
Result
output to the Send Command Complete and Task Management Function =
Executed
confirmations (as previously proposed in 04-072r0 for a different =
purpose).
This would let the device server/task manager&nbsp;wait for all&nbsp;the
previous commands/TMF responses to complete (be ACKed) before proceeding =
to
make additional calls (e.g., Task Management Function Executed for a =
LOGICAL
UNIT RESET).</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:blue'>However, iSCSI allows the target port to send a NOP-IN =
to
force delivery of a NOP-OUT with&nbsp;ExpStatSN, rather than passively =
wait for
a PDU to show up.&nbsp; The device server/task manager must instruct the =
target
port when to do this, and&nbsp;the Request Fence argument serves that
purpose.&nbsp; Target ports using protocols without such a force =
mechanism are
still OK - they will just wait for protocol-specific delivery =
confirmations
(e.g. ACKs).<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:blue'>-- <br>
Rob Elliott, elliott@hp.com <br>
Hewlett-Packard Industry Standard Server Storage Advanced Technology =
<br>
<a href=3D"https://ecardfile.com/id/RobElliott" =
target=3D"_blank">https://ecardfile.com/id/RobElliott</a>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:blue'><br>
</span></font>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

<blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue =
1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'=
>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font =
size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>

<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabIndex=3D-1>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><font size=3D2 =
face=3DTahoma><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</spa=
n></font></b><font
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> <st1:PersonName
w:st=3D"on">Robert Snively</st1:PersonName> =
[mailto:rsnively@Brocade.COM] <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, January =
03, 2007
4:46 PM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Elliott, Robert =
(Server
Storage); ips@ietf.org<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: [Ips] =
Response Fence
Flag</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>I need a little tutorial =
here.&nbsp; Note
that this is an architectural hack that</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>is very &quot;un-SCSI&quot; and is =
not
required if the response is qualified with =
identification</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>information associated with the =
original
request.&nbsp; I know that such =
qualification</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>exists for commands, but does it =
exist for
task management requests in</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>iSCSI?&nbsp; =
</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>I know that it does exist for =
parallel
SCSI (which is strictly interlocked)</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>and for SAS and Fibre Channel SCSI, =
making
such &quot;fences&quot; unrequired by</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>those =
technologies.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Note that Rob's previous revision =
of
06-341 is available on <a href=3D"http://www.t10.org/" =
target=3D"_blank">www.t10.org</a>.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>I would hate to see such a hack =
creep into
the SCSI architecture.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Bob</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font =
size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>

<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabIndex=3D-1>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><font size=3D2 =
face=3DTahoma><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</spa=
n></font></b><font
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> Elliott,
Robert (Server Storage) [mailto:Elliott@hp.com] <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, January =
03, 2007
1:56 PM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> ips@ietf.org<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: [Ips] =
Response Fence
Flag</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>If T10 agrees, T10 proposal 06-341 =
will
add it to SAM-4.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:blue'>-- <br>
Rob Elliott, elliott@hp.com <br>
Hewlett-Packard Industry Standard Server Storage Advanced Technology =
<br>
<a href=3D"https://ecardfile.com/id/RobElliott" =
target=3D"_blank">https://ecardfile.com/id/RobElliott</a>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue =
1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font =
size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>

<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabIndex=3D-1>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><font size=3D2 =
face=3DTahoma><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</spa=
n></font></b><font
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> Eddy
Quicksall [mailto:Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net] <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, January =
03, 2007
2:00 PM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> ips@ietf.org<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> [Ips] Response =
Fence Flag</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt'>Section 3.3.1 talks about a Response Fence =
Flag:</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>SCSI protocol layer instructs the SCSI transport layer of a <br>
&quot;Response Fence&quot; associated with the response in question when =
<br>
the &quot;Send Command Complete&quot; protocol data service (SAM-2, =
clause <br>
5.4.2) ...<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt'>But I don't see any reference to that in =
SAM-2.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt'>Is this strictly an iSCSI flag? Where is the flag =
specified?</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt'>Eddy</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>_______________________________________________<br>
Ips mailing list<br>
Ips@ietf.org<br>
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ips<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</blockquote>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>_______________________________________________<br>
Ips mailing list<br>
Ips@ietf.org<br>
<a href=3D"https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ips" =
target=3D"_blank">https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ips</a><o:p></o:=
p></span></font></p>

</div>

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<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><br>
__________________________________________________<br>
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From ips-bounces@ietf.org Fri Jan 05 17:45:35 2007
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Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 14:45:12 -0800 (PST)
From: "Mallikarjun C." <cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com>
Subject: Fw: [Ips] Response Fence Flag
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Trying again after bouncing (>50KB), tail is now clipped....=0A=0A=0A----- =
Forwarded Message ----=0AFrom: Mallikarjun C. <cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com>=0A=
To: ips@ietf.org=0ASent: Friday, January 5, 2007 2:40:56 PM=0ASubject: Re: =
[Ips] Response Fence Flag=0A=0A=0AHi John,=0A =0AAs you correctly point out=
, there are two distinct but related topics here.=0A =0A(1) proper response=
 ordering across participating connections in a multi-connection session, f=
or a handful of task/TMF responses=0A(2) proper way to terminate and signal=
 tasks when actions on one session can impact multiple initiators=0A =0A(1)=
 is all about response fence, it is covered separately in section 3.3 of IG=
 draft.  That's what this email thread started off with.=0A =0A(2) covers c=
ases that IG had called as as "multi-task abort" cases that typically have =
a shared task set across sessions, or are the result of a Logical Unit Rese=
t TMF.  Section 4.1 of IG adresses (2).=0A =0ASo how are (1) and (2) relate=
d?=0A =0A- Some cases covered under (2) overlap with (1), but some cases in=
 (2) are for single connection sessions.  E.g. LU Reset on a single connect=
ion session impacting several 3rd party sessions=0A =0A- Some cases under (=
1) overlap with (2), but some cases in (1) have nothing to do with other se=
ssions.  E.g. establishment of ACA on a non-shared task set=0A =0A- Section=
 4.1 (i.e. text for (2)) uses response fence (i.e. text for (1)) whenever m=
ulti-connection sessions are involved in multi-task abort situations.=0A =
=0AI hope that clarifies it.  Feel free to ask if that is not clear.  The n=
et is that the response fence is the underpinning notion to describe the co=
rrect iSCSI behavior in a few cases and some of those cases are about task =
terminations across third-party sessions.=0A =0AMallikarjun=0A =0A=0A=0A =
=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: John Hufferd <jhufferd@Brocade.COM>=
=0ATo: Mallikarjun C. <cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com>; ips@ietf.org=0ASent: Frid=
ay, January 5, 2007 1:01:06 PM=0ASubject: RE: [Ips] Response Fence Flag=0A=
=0A=0AMallikarjun,=0AI must admit, that I have been a bit confused with the=
 direction of the conversation here.=0A =0ATherefore, I went back and revie=
wed the charts from Dallas .  And as I remembered, the initial focus was to=
 address the issue of Multiple Connections per Session (MC/S) (as stated on=
 chart 4 =96 =93Non-issue for single-connection iSCSI sessions=94).  So I t=
hink I have missed the step where we have morphed the discussion into one d=
ealing with multiple sessions.  (I am not sure how that happened, or if I m=
iss-read the charts from Dallas , or have not followed the discussion adequ=
ately.)=0A =0AIf we are attempting to define two different issues, one with=
 MC/S and one with Multiple Session from different Initiators, I think it w=
ould be useful to break down the conversation into Topic A =96 MC/S and Top=
ic B Multiple Sessions.  It is possible that one solution will addresses bo=
th, but I for one think I am hearing arguments that might be appropriate fo=
r Topic B, while I am thinking about its applicability to Topic A.=0A =0APe=
rhaps, you could address the issue as either being all about MC/S or explic=
itly state that it is intended to affect Multiple Sessions also, and then a=
ddress the issues and solution for each separately.  For example, I believe=
 Robert was addressing the issue from a view of Multiple Sessions and if we=
 only intended to address MC/S then I expect the response might be somewhat=
 different.=0A =0AAnyway, if you could clear-up some of this, I think it wo=
uld be useful (at least to me).=0A =0A.=0A.=0A.=0AJohn L Hufferd=0ASr. Exec=
utive Director of Technology=0ABrocade Communications Systems, Inc=0Ajhuffe=
rd@brocade.com=0AOffice Phone: (408) 333-5244; eFAX: (408) 904-4688=0AAlt O=
ffice Phone: (408) 997-6136; Cell: (408) 627-9606=0A =0A=0A=0A=0AFrom: Mall=
ikarjun C. [mailto:cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com] =0ASent: Friday, January 05, 2=
007 10:08 AM=0ATo: ips@ietf.org=0ASubject: Re: [Ips] Response Fence Flag=0A=
 =0ANot really.  Current draft text is intentionally written to not have an=
y dependencies on T10 dynamics.  The point is that iSCSI needs such a notio=
n for succinctly describing the proper iSCSI protocol actions in a few plac=
es - ACA, TMF, Persistent reserve/Abort to name a few.  We certainly hope i=
t will be approved by T10 and be a part of SAM-4 soon, but that isn't requi=
red per se for describing what iSCSI needs for its correct behavior.=0A =0A=
IPS WG has adopted what it needs in the past - staying ahead of T10 review/=
approval cycle if necessary.  I_T nexus loss notification, iSCSI target/por=
t naming, clearing effects are a few I recall.=0A =0AMallikarjun=0A=0A=0A =
=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: Eddy Quicksall <Quicksall_iSCSI@Bell=
south.net>=0ATo: Robert Snively <rsnively@Brocade.COM>; "Elliott, Robert (S=
erver Storage)" <Elliott@hp.com>; ips@ietf.org=0ASent: Friday, January 5, 2=
007 8:58:47 AM=0ASubject: Re: [Ips] Response Fence Flag=0AFrom an earlier e=
mail I think that Response Fence is only a proposal in T10 (http://www.t10.=
org:80/doc06.htm). If so shouldn't iSCSI wait a bit until this has been rat=
ified?=0A =0AEddy=0A=0A__________________________________________________=
=0ADo You Yahoo!?=0ATired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protectio=
n around =0Ahttp://mail.yahoo.com 
--0-867321842-1168037112=:74014
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<html><head><style type=3D"text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;} --></style></he=
ad><body><div style=3D"font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;=
font-size:12pt"><DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman=
, new york, times, serif">Trying again after bouncing (&gt;50KB), tail is n=
ow clipped....<BR><BR>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times =
new roman, new york, times, serif">----- Forwarded Message ----<BR>From: Ma=
llikarjun C. &lt;cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com&gt;<BR>To: ips@ietf.org<BR>Sent: =
Friday, January 5, 2007 2:40:56 PM<BR>Subject: Re: [Ips] Response Fence Fla=
g<BR><BR>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, ne=
w york, times, serif">=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times =
new roman, new york, times, serif">Hi John,</DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE=
: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif">&nbsp;</DIV>=
=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, t=
imes, serif">As you correctly point out, there are two distinct but related=
 topics&nbsp;here.</DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: time=
s new roman, new york, times, serif">&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE=
: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif">(1) proper re=
sponse ordering across participating connections in a multi-connection sess=
ion, for a handful of task/TMF responses</DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 1=
2pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif">(2) proper way t=
o terminate and signal&nbsp;tasks when actions on one session can impact mu=
ltiple initiators</DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times=
 new roman, new york, times, serif">&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE:=
 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif">(1) is all abo=
ut response fence, it is covered separately in section 3.3 of IG draft.&nbs=
p; That's what this email thread started off with.</DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FO=
NT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif">&nbsp;=
</DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new y=
ork, times, serif">(2)&nbsp;covers cases that IG had called as&nbsp;as "mul=
ti-task abort" cases that typically have a shared task set across sessions,=
 or are the result of a Logical Unit Reset TMF.&nbsp; Section 4.1 of IG adr=
esses (2).</DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new ro=
man, new york, times, serif">&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; =
FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif">So how are (1) and (2=
) related?</DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new ro=
man, new york, times, serif">&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; =
FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif">- Some cases covered =
under (2) overlap with&nbsp;(1), but some cases in (2) are for single conne=
ction sessions.&nbsp; E.g. LU Reset on a single connection session impactin=
g several 3rd party sessions</DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FA=
MILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif">&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D=
"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif">- S=
ome cases under (1) overlap with (2), but some cases in (1) have nothing to=
 do with other sessions.&nbsp; E.g. establishment of ACA on a non-shared ta=
sk set</DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman,=
 new york, times, serif">&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT=
-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif">- Section 4.1&nbsp;(i.e. =
text for (2)) uses response fence&nbsp;(i.e. text for (1)) whenever multi-c=
onnection sessions are involved in multi-task abort situations.</DIV>=0A<DI=
V style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, =
serif">&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new=
 roman, new york, times, serif">I hope that clarifies it.&nbsp; Feel free t=
o ask if that is not clear.&nbsp; The net&nbsp;is that the response fence i=
s the underpinning notion to describe the correct iSCSI behavior in a few c=
ases and some of those cases are about task terminations across&nbsp;third-=
party sessions.</DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times n=
ew roman, new york, times, serif">&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 1=
2pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif">Mallikarjun</DIV=
>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, =
times, serif">&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: ti=
mes new roman, new york, times, serif"><BR><BR>&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D=
"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif">---=
-- Original Message ----<BR>From: John Hufferd &lt;jhufferd@Brocade.COM&gt;=
<BR>To: Mallikarjun C. &lt;cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com&gt;; ips@ietf.org<BR>Se=
nt: Friday, January 5, 2007 1:01:06 PM<BR>Subject: RE: [Ips] Response Fence=
 Flag<BR><BR>=0A<STYLE>=0A<!--=0A=0A _filtered {font-family:Tahoma;=0Apanos=
e-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}=0A/* Style Definitions */=0A p.MsoNormal, li.Mso=
Normal, div.MsoNormal=0A=09{margin:0in;=0Amargin-bottom:.0001pt;=0Afont-siz=
e:12.0pt;=0Afont-family:"Times New Roman";}=0Aa:link, span.MsoHyperlink=0A=
=09{color:blue;=0Atext-decoration:underline;}=0Aa:visited, span.MsoHyperlin=
kFollowed=0A=09{color:blue;=0Atext-decoration:underline;}=0Ap=0A=09{=0Amarg=
in-right:0in;=0A=0Amargin-left:0in;=0Afont-size:12.0pt;=0Afont-family:"Time=
s New Roman";}=0Aspan.EmailStyle18=0A=09{=0Afont-family:Arial;=0Acolor:navy=
;}=0A_filtered {=0Amargin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in;}=0Adiv.Section1=0A=09{=
}=0A-->=0A</STYLE>=0A=0A<DIV class=3DSection1>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT=
 face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: =
navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Mallikarjun,</SPAN></FONT></P>=0A<P class=3DMsoNo=
rmal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10p=
t; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I must admit, that I have been a bit co=
nfused with the direction of the conversation here.</SPAN></FONT></P>=0A<P =
class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"F=
ONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></P>=
=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN styl=
e=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Therefore, I went ba=
ck and reviewed the charts from Dallas . &nbsp;And as I remembered, the ini=
tial focus was to address the issue of Multiple Connections per Session (MC=
/S) (as stated on chart 4 =96 =93Non-issue for single-connection iSCSI sess=
ions=94). &nbsp;So I think I have missed the step where we have morphed the=
 discussion into one dealing with multiple sessions. &nbsp;(I am not sure h=
ow that happened, or if I miss-read the charts from Dallas , or have not fo=
llowed the discussion adequately.)</SPAN></FONT></P>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal=
><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; C=
OLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></P>=0A<P class=3DMsoNo=
rmal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10p=
t; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">If we are attempting to define two diff=
erent issues, one with MC/S and one with Multiple Session from different In=
itiators, I think it would be useful to break down the conversation into To=
pic A =96 MC/S and Topic B Multiple Sessions. &nbsp;It is possible that one=
 solution will addresses both, but I for one think I am hearing arguments t=
hat might be appropriate for Topic B, while I am thinking about its applica=
bility to Topic A.</SPAN></FONT></P>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DAr=
ial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT=
-FAMILY: Arial">&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></P>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=
=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy;=
 FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Perhaps, you could address the issue as either being a=
ll about MC/S or explicitly state that it is intended to affect Multiple Se=
ssions also, and then address the issues and solution for each separately.&=
nbsp; For example, I believe Robert was addressing the issue from a view of=
 Multiple Sessions and if we only intended to address MC/S then I expect th=
e response might be somewhat different.</SPAN></FONT></P>=0A<P class=3DMsoN=
ormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10=
pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></P>=0A<P class=3D=
MsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE=
: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Anyway, if you could clear-up some=
 of this, I think it would be useful (at least to me).</SPAN></FONT></P>=0A=
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN style=
=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT><=
/P>=0A<DIV>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3Dn=
avy size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy">.</SPAN></FONT><F=
ONT color=3Dnavy><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: navy"></SPAN></FONT></P>=0A<P class=
=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN sty=
le=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy">.</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3Dnavy><SPAN=
 style=3D"COLOR: navy"></SPAN></FONT></P>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=
=3D"Times New Roman" color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; =
COLOR: navy">.</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3Dnavy><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: navy">=
</SPAN></FONT></P>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" co=
lor=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy">John L Huf=
ferd</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3Dnavy><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: navy"></SPAN></F=
ONT></P>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3Dnavy=
 size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy">Sr. Executive Direct=
or of Technology</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3Dnavy><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: navy=
"></SPAN></FONT></P>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy">Brocade =
Communications Systems, Inc</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3Dnavy><SPAN style=3D"=
COLOR: navy"></SPAN></FONT></P>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman" color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: nav=
y"><A title=3Dmailto:jhufferd@brocade.com href=3D"mailto:jhufferd@brocade.c=
om" target=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow>jhufferd@brocade.com</A></SPAN></FONT><F=
ONT color=3Dnavy><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: navy"></SPAN></FONT></P>=0A<P class=
=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN sty=
le=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy">Office Phone: (408) 333-5244; eFAX: (40=
8) 904-4688</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3Dnavy><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: navy"></S=
PAN></FONT></P>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=
=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy">Alt Office Ph=
one: (408) 997-6136; Cell: (408) 627-9606</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3Dnavy><=
SPAN style=3D"COLOR: navy"></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal>=
<FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; CO=
LOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></P>=0A<DIV>=0A<DIV clas=
s=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3D"Tim=
es New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">=0A<HR tabIndex=3D-1=
 align=3Dcenter width=3D"100%" SIZE=3D2>=0A</SPAN></FONT></DIV>=0A<P class=
=3DMsoNormal><B><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bo=
ld; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT face=
=3DTahoma size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"> Ma=
llikarjun C. [mailto:cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com] <BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-W=
EIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Friday, January 05, 2007 10:08 AM<BR><B><SPAN=
 style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> ips@ietf.org<BR><B><SPAN style=
=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [Ips] Response Fence Flag</S=
PAN></FONT></P></DIV>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"=
 size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></P>=0A<DIV>=
=0A<DIV>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SP=
AN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Not really.&nbsp; Current draft text is intent=
ionally written to not have any dependencies on T10 dynamics.&nbsp; The poi=
nt is that iSCSI needs such a notion for succinctly describing the&nbsp;pro=
per&nbsp;iSCSI protocol actions in a few places - ACA, TMF, Persistent rese=
rve/Abort to name a few.&nbsp; We certainly hope it will be approved by T10=
 and be a part of SAM-4 soon, but&nbsp;that isn't required per se for descr=
ibing what iSCSI needs for its correct behavior.</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>=0A=
<DIV>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN =
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>=0A<DIV>=0A<P class=
=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SI=
ZE: 12pt">IPS WG has adopted what it needs&nbsp;in the past&nbsp;- staying =
ahead of T10 review/approval cycle if necessary.&nbsp; I_T nexus loss notif=
ication, iSCSI target/port naming, clearing effects are a few I recall.</SP=
AN></FONT></P></DIV>=0A<DIV>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New=
 Roman" size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></P></=
DIV>=0A<DIV>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3=
><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Mallikarjun</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>=0A<DIV=
>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN styl=
e=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><BR><BR>&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>=0A<DIV>=0A<P c=
lass=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roma=
n" size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">----- Original Message ----<BR>=
From: Eddy Quicksall &lt;Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net&gt;<BR>To: Robert Sn=
ively &lt;rsnively@Brocade.COM&gt;; "Elliott, Robert (Server Storage)" &lt;=
Elliott@hp.com&gt;; ips@ietf.org<BR>Sent: Friday, January 5, 2007 8:58:47 A=
M<BR>Subject: Re: [Ips] Response Fence Flag</SPAN></FONT></P>=0A<DIV>=0A<P =
class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FO=
NT-SIZE: 10pt">From an earlier email I think&nbsp;that&nbsp;Response Fence =
is only a proposal in T10 (<A href=3D"http://www.t10.org/doc06.htm" target=
=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow>http://www.t10.org:80/doc06.htm</A>). If so should=
n't iSCSI wait a bit until this has been ratified?</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>=
=0A<DIV>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SP=
AN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>=0A<DIV>=0A<P cl=
ass=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT=
-SIZE: 10pt">Eddy</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DI=
V></DIV></div><br>__________________________________________________<br>Do =
You Yahoo!?<br>Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection aro=
und <br>http://mail.yahoo.com </body></html>
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From ips-bounces@ietf.org Fri Jan 05 18:48:19 2007
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Message-ID: <00f401c73123$e3b53af0$01faa8c0@ivivity.com>
From: "Eddy Quicksall" <Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net>
To: "Julian Satran" <Julian_Satran@il.ibm.com>
References: <OF22123ED2.31D6C474-ON8525725A.006419E8-8525725A.0070686C@il.ibm.com>
Subject: Re: [Ips] iSCSI Implementer's Guide - WG Last Call status
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Yea, what Paul suggested is also what I suggested in the beginning. If =
that is ok then do you still think it would help clear things up?

I also go along with what Mallikarjun said and David seemed to back up =
... that we should probably go over the MUST's and see which are =
actually needed (I think that is what he meant).

Eddy
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Julian Satran=20
  To: Eddy Quicksall=20
  Cc: cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com ; ips@ietf.org ; Paul Koning=20
  Sent: Friday, January 05, 2007 3:27 PM
  Subject: Re: [Ips] iSCSI Implementer's Guide - WG Last Call status



  Eddy,=20

  It was stated here several times already that the general rule in RFCs =
is that sender has to be strict and the receiver lenient.=20
  It is however really difficult to say what exactly lenient means (as =
it is very much dependent on implementations). The rules are stated in =
terms of what a sender must do.=20
  It is also obvious that draft authors would be reluctant to make a =
blanket statement of the receiver not being manadated to check (as in =
some case that might be blatantly incorrect). Just to give you an =
example - would it be acceptable to say that a sender has to put a =
correct CRC in the frame but the receiver is free not to check it ?=20
  A blanket statement like the one you requested would cover such a =
behaviour too (that would be obviously incorect). Perhaps a statement =
along the lines of what Paul suggest ed with  the caveat -"as long as it =
does not violate an explicit rule" should be enough.=20

  Regards,=20
  Julo=20


        "Eddy Quicksall" <Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net>=20
        05/01/07 11:25=20
       To "Paul Koning" <pkoning@equallogic.com>, =
<cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com> =20
              cc ips@ietf.org =20
              Subject Re: [Ips] iSCSI Implementer's Guide - WG Last Call =
status=20

             =20

      =20



  I remember long ago talking about this when we were developing the =
RFC. I=20
  remember some people clearly saying that if the RFC said "must do X" =
then it=20
  meant that the peer "must check X". I didn't pursue the issue because =
it=20
  seemed to be of little importance.

  But as time went on and the draft got finalized, I ran into cases =
where that=20
  view was still taken to hart. Of course "the customer is always right" =
so I=20
  added checks.

  More recently I thought that since this guide was being written that =
maybe a=20
  simple statement could be made to clarify the issue.

  I'm not debating the issue of the importance of making a check or even =
the=20
  criteria for making the check.

  Eddy

  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: "Paul Koning" <pkoning@equallogic.com>
  To: <cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com>
  Cc: <ips@ietf.org>
  Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 6:00 PM
  Subject: Re: [Ips] iSCSI Implementer's Guide - WG Last Call status


  >>>>>> "Mallikarjun" =3D=3D Mallikarjun C <cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com> =
writes:
  >
  > Mallikarjun> Paul, Agree with everything you wrote.
  >
  > Mallikarjun> RFC 3720 does not require sane reactions to non-sane
  > Mallikarjun> inputs.  This draft should not say anything that
  > Mallikarjun> suggests target/initiator may draw sane interpretations
  > Mallikarjun> to non-sane inputs either.
  >
  > Great summary.
  >
  > Mallikarjun> Sounds like an agreement to not add any new text to me.
  >
  > Well, Eddy raised the issue a while back that some people writing
  > conformance tests were interpreting "initiator must do X" as "target
  > must check that initiator does X".  That's clearly an incorrect
  > conclusion.  But given that people make this mistake, I wonder if a
  > note in the guide saying "unless RFC 3720 specifically requires it, =
an
  > implementation is not required to do protocol conformance checking =
on
  > incoming message", or something like that, would be helpful.
  >
  >      paul
  >
  >
  > _______________________________________________
  > Ips mailing list
  > Ips@ietf.org
  > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ips
  >=20


  _______________________________________________
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
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<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.5730.11" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Yea, what Paul suggested is also what I suggested in =
the=20
beginning. If that is ok then do you still think it would help clear =
things=20
up?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I also go along with what Mallikarjun said and David =
seemed to=20
back up ... that we should probably go over the MUST's and see which are =

actually needed (I think that is what he meant).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Eddy</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3DJulian_Satran@il.ibm.com=20
  href=3D"mailto:Julian_Satran@il.ibm.com">Julian Satran</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
  title=3DQuicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net=20
  href=3D"mailto:Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net">Eddy Quicksall</A> =
</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A =
title=3Dcb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com=20
  href=3D"mailto:cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com">cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com</A> =
; <A=20
  title=3Dips@ietf.org href=3D"mailto:ips@ietf.org">ips@ietf.org</A> ; =
<A=20
  title=3Dpkoning@equallogic.com =
href=3D"mailto:pkoning@equallogic.com">Paul=20
  Koning</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, January 05, 2007 =
3:27=20
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Ips] iSCSI =
Implementer's=20
  Guide - WG Last Call status</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV><BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>Eddy,</FONT> =
<BR><BR><FONT=20
  face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>It was stated here several times already =
that the=20
  general rule in RFCs is that sender has to be strict and the receiver=20
  lenient.</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>It is however =
really=20
  difficult to say what exactly lenient means (as it is very much =
dependent on=20
  implementations). The rules are stated in terms of what a sender must=20
  do.</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>It is also obvious =
that draft=20
  authors would be reluctant to make a blanket statement of the receiver =
not=20
  being manadated to check (as in some case that might be blatantly =
incorrect).=20
  Just to give you an example - would it be acceptable to say that a =
sender has=20
  to put a correct CRC in the frame but the receiver is free not to =
check it=20
  ?</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>A blanket statement like =
the one you=20
  requested would cover such a behaviour too (that would be obviously =
incorect).=20
  Perhaps a statement along the lines of what Paul suggest ed with =
&nbsp;the=20
  caveat -"as long as it does not violate an explicit rule" should be=20
  enough.</FONT> <BR><BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif =
size=3D2>Regards,</FONT> <BR><FONT=20
  face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>Julo</FONT> <BR><BR><BR>
  <TABLE width=3D"100%">
    <TBODY>
    <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
      <TD width=3D"40%"><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1><B>"Eddy =
Quicksall"=20
        &lt;Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net&gt;</B> </FONT>
        <P><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>05/01/07 11:25</FONT> </P>
      <TD width=3D"59%">
        <TABLE width=3D"100%">
          <TBODY>
          <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
            <TD>
              <DIV align=3Dright><FONT face=3Dsans-serif =
size=3D1>To</FONT></DIV>
            <TD><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>"Paul Koning"=20
              &lt;pkoning@equallogic.com&gt;,=20
              &lt;cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com&gt;</FONT>=20
          <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
            <TD>
              <DIV align=3Dright><FONT face=3Dsans-serif =
size=3D1>cc</FONT></DIV>
            <TD><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>ips@ietf.org</FONT>=20
          <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
            <TD>
              <DIV align=3Dright><FONT face=3Dsans-serif =
size=3D1>Subject</FONT></DIV>
            <TD><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>Re: [Ips] iSCSI =
Implementer's=20
              Guide - WG Last Call =
status</FONT></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR>
        <TABLE>
          <TBODY>
          <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
            <TD>
            =
<TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR><BR><BR><TT><FONT=20
  size=3D2>I remember long ago talking about this when we were =
developing the RFC.=20
  I <BR>remember some people clearly saying that if the RFC said "must =
do X"=20
  then it <BR>meant that the peer "must check X". I didn't pursue the =
issue=20
  because it <BR>seemed to be of little importance.<BR><BR>But as time =
went on=20
  and the draft got finalized, I ran into cases where that <BR>view was =
still=20
  taken to hart. Of course "the customer is always right" so I <BR>added =

  checks.<BR><BR>More recently I thought that since this guide was being =
written=20
  that maybe a <BR>simple statement could be made to clarify the=20
  issue.<BR><BR>I'm not debating the issue of the importance of making a =
check=20
  or even the <BR>criteria for making the =
check.<BR><BR>Eddy<BR><BR>-----=20
  Original Message ----- <BR>From: "Paul Koning"=20
  &lt;pkoning@equallogic.com&gt;<BR>To: =
&lt;cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com&gt;<BR>Cc:=20
  &lt;ips@ietf.org&gt;<BR>Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 6:00 =
PM<BR>Subject:=20
  Re: [Ips] iSCSI Implementer's Guide - WG Last Call=20
  status<BR><BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; "Mallikarjun" =3D=3D =
Mallikarjun C=20
  &lt;cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com&gt; writes:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; =
Mallikarjun&gt; Paul,=20
  Agree with everything you wrote.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Mallikarjun&gt; RFC =
3720 does=20
  not require sane reactions to non-sane<BR>&gt; Mallikarjun&gt; inputs. =

  &nbsp;This draft should not say anything that<BR>&gt; Mallikarjun&gt; =
suggests=20
  target/initiator may draw sane interpretations<BR>&gt; Mallikarjun&gt; =
to=20
  non-sane inputs either.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Great summary.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; =

  Mallikarjun&gt; Sounds like an agreement to not add any new text to=20
  me.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Well, Eddy raised the issue a while back that some =
people=20
  writing<BR>&gt; conformance tests were interpreting "initiator must do =
X" as=20
  "target<BR>&gt; must check that initiator does X". &nbsp;That's =
clearly an=20
  incorrect<BR>&gt; conclusion. &nbsp;But given that people make this =
mistake, I=20
  wonder if a<BR>&gt; note in the guide saying "unless RFC 3720 =
specifically=20
  requires it, an<BR>&gt; implementation is not required to do protocol=20
  conformance checking on<BR>&gt; incoming message", or something like =
that,=20
  would be helpful.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp;=20
  &nbsp;paul<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;=20
  _______________________________________________<BR>&gt; Ips mailing=20
  list<BR>&gt; Ips@ietf.org<BR>&gt;=20
  https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ips<BR>&gt;=20
  <BR><BR><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>Ips =
mailing=20
  =
list<BR>Ips@ietf.org<BR>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ips<BR></F=
ONT></TT><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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To: "Julian Satran" <Julian_Satran@il.ibm.com>
References: <OF22123ED2.31D6C474-ON8525725A.006419E8-8525725A.0070686C@il.ibm.com>
Subject: Re: [Ips] iSCSI Implementer's Guide - WG Last Call status
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Just another note on what you said below "it was stated here several =
times...". I know it has been in emails for a long time but I found that =
testers' don't use what is said in emails as a criteria. That is why I =
thought it would be good to add a statement.

Eddy
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Julian Satran=20
  To: Eddy Quicksall=20
  Cc: cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com ; ips@ietf.org ; Paul Koning=20
  Sent: Friday, January 05, 2007 3:27 PM
  Subject: Re: [Ips] iSCSI Implementer's Guide - WG Last Call status



  Eddy,=20

  It was stated here several times already that the general rule in RFCs =
is that sender has to be strict and the receiver lenient.=20
  It is however really difficult to say what exactly lenient means (as =
it is very much dependent on implementations). The rules are stated in =
terms of what a sender must do.=20
  It is also obvious that draft authors would be reluctant to make a =
blanket statement of the receiver not being manadated to check (as in =
some case that might be blatantly incorrect). Just to give you an =
example - would it be acceptable to say that a sender has to put a =
correct CRC in the frame but the receiver is free not to check it ?=20
  A blanket statement like the one you requested would cover such a =
behaviour too (that would be obviously incorect). Perhaps a statement =
along the lines of what Paul suggest ed with  the caveat -"as long as it =
does not violate an explicit rule" should be enough.=20

  Regards,=20
  Julo=20


        "Eddy Quicksall" <Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net>=20
        05/01/07 11:25=20
       To "Paul Koning" <pkoning@equallogic.com>, =
<cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com> =20
              cc ips@ietf.org =20
              Subject Re: [Ips] iSCSI Implementer's Guide - WG Last Call =
status=20

             =20

      =20



  I remember long ago talking about this when we were developing the =
RFC. I=20
  remember some people clearly saying that if the RFC said "must do X" =
then it=20
  meant that the peer "must check X". I didn't pursue the issue because =
it=20
  seemed to be of little importance.

  But as time went on and the draft got finalized, I ran into cases =
where that=20
  view was still taken to hart. Of course "the customer is always right" =
so I=20
  added checks.

  More recently I thought that since this guide was being written that =
maybe a=20
  simple statement could be made to clarify the issue.

  I'm not debating the issue of the importance of making a check or even =
the=20
  criteria for making the check.

  Eddy

  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: "Paul Koning" <pkoning@equallogic.com>
  To: <cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com>
  Cc: <ips@ietf.org>
  Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 6:00 PM
  Subject: Re: [Ips] iSCSI Implementer's Guide - WG Last Call status


  >>>>>> "Mallikarjun" =3D=3D Mallikarjun C <cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com> =
writes:
  >
  > Mallikarjun> Paul, Agree with everything you wrote.
  >
  > Mallikarjun> RFC 3720 does not require sane reactions to non-sane
  > Mallikarjun> inputs.  This draft should not say anything that
  > Mallikarjun> suggests target/initiator may draw sane interpretations
  > Mallikarjun> to non-sane inputs either.
  >
  > Great summary.
  >
  > Mallikarjun> Sounds like an agreement to not add any new text to me.
  >
  > Well, Eddy raised the issue a while back that some people writing
  > conformance tests were interpreting "initiator must do X" as "target
  > must check that initiator does X".  That's clearly an incorrect
  > conclusion.  But given that people make this mistake, I wonder if a
  > note in the guide saying "unless RFC 3720 specifically requires it, =
an
  > implementation is not required to do protocol conformance checking =
on
  > incoming message", or something like that, would be helpful.
  >
  >      paul
  >
  >
  > _______________________________________________
  > Ips mailing list
  > Ips@ietf.org
  > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ips
  >=20


  _______________________________________________
  Ips mailing list
  Ips@ietf.org
  https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ips


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<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
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</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Just another note on what you said below "it was =
stated here=20
several times...". I know it has been in emails for a long time but I =
found that=20
testers' don't use what is said in emails as a criteria. That is why I =
thought=20
it would be good to add a statement.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Eddy</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3DJulian_Satran@il.ibm.com=20
  href=3D"mailto:Julian_Satran@il.ibm.com">Julian Satran</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
  title=3DQuicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net=20
  href=3D"mailto:Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net">Eddy Quicksall</A> =
</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A =
title=3Dcb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com=20
  href=3D"mailto:cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com">cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com</A> =
; <A=20
  title=3Dips@ietf.org href=3D"mailto:ips@ietf.org">ips@ietf.org</A> ; =
<A=20
  title=3Dpkoning@equallogic.com =
href=3D"mailto:pkoning@equallogic.com">Paul=20
  Koning</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, January 05, 2007 =
3:27=20
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Ips] iSCSI =
Implementer's=20
  Guide - WG Last Call status</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV><BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>Eddy,</FONT> =
<BR><BR><FONT=20
  face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>It was stated here several times already =
that the=20
  general rule in RFCs is that sender has to be strict and the receiver=20
  lenient.</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>It is however =
really=20
  difficult to say what exactly lenient means (as it is very much =
dependent on=20
  implementations). The rules are stated in terms of what a sender must=20
  do.</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>It is also obvious =
that draft=20
  authors would be reluctant to make a blanket statement of the receiver =
not=20
  being manadated to check (as in some case that might be blatantly =
incorrect).=20
  Just to give you an example - would it be acceptable to say that a =
sender has=20
  to put a correct CRC in the frame but the receiver is free not to =
check it=20
  ?</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>A blanket statement like =
the one you=20
  requested would cover such a behaviour too (that would be obviously =
incorect).=20
  Perhaps a statement along the lines of what Paul suggest ed with =
&nbsp;the=20
  caveat -"as long as it does not violate an explicit rule" should be=20
  enough.</FONT> <BR><BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif =
size=3D2>Regards,</FONT> <BR><FONT=20
  face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>Julo</FONT> <BR><BR><BR>
  <TABLE width=3D"100%">
    <TBODY>
    <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
      <TD width=3D"40%"><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1><B>"Eddy =
Quicksall"=20
        &lt;Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net&gt;</B> </FONT>
        <P><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>05/01/07 11:25</FONT> </P>
      <TD width=3D"59%">
        <TABLE width=3D"100%">
          <TBODY>
          <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
            <TD>
              <DIV align=3Dright><FONT face=3Dsans-serif =
size=3D1>To</FONT></DIV>
            <TD><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>"Paul Koning"=20
              &lt;pkoning@equallogic.com&gt;,=20
              &lt;cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com&gt;</FONT>=20
          <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
            <TD>
              <DIV align=3Dright><FONT face=3Dsans-serif =
size=3D1>cc</FONT></DIV>
            <TD><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>ips@ietf.org</FONT>=20
          <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
            <TD>
              <DIV align=3Dright><FONT face=3Dsans-serif =
size=3D1>Subject</FONT></DIV>
            <TD><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>Re: [Ips] iSCSI =
Implementer's=20
              Guide - WG Last Call =
status</FONT></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR>
        <TABLE>
          <TBODY>
          <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
            <TD>
            =
<TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR><BR><BR><TT><FONT=20
  size=3D2>I remember long ago talking about this when we were =
developing the RFC.=20
  I <BR>remember some people clearly saying that if the RFC said "must =
do X"=20
  then it <BR>meant that the peer "must check X". I didn't pursue the =
issue=20
  because it <BR>seemed to be of little importance.<BR><BR>But as time =
went on=20
  and the draft got finalized, I ran into cases where that <BR>view was =
still=20
  taken to hart. Of course "the customer is always right" so I <BR>added =

  checks.<BR><BR>More recently I thought that since this guide was being =
written=20
  that maybe a <BR>simple statement could be made to clarify the=20
  issue.<BR><BR>I'm not debating the issue of the importance of making a =
check=20
  or even the <BR>criteria for making the =
check.<BR><BR>Eddy<BR><BR>-----=20
  Original Message ----- <BR>From: "Paul Koning"=20
  &lt;pkoning@equallogic.com&gt;<BR>To: =
&lt;cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com&gt;<BR>Cc:=20
  &lt;ips@ietf.org&gt;<BR>Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 6:00 =
PM<BR>Subject:=20
  Re: [Ips] iSCSI Implementer's Guide - WG Last Call=20
  status<BR><BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; "Mallikarjun" =3D=3D =
Mallikarjun C=20
  &lt;cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com&gt; writes:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; =
Mallikarjun&gt; Paul,=20
  Agree with everything you wrote.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Mallikarjun&gt; RFC =
3720 does=20
  not require sane reactions to non-sane<BR>&gt; Mallikarjun&gt; inputs. =

  &nbsp;This draft should not say anything that<BR>&gt; Mallikarjun&gt; =
suggests=20
  target/initiator may draw sane interpretations<BR>&gt; Mallikarjun&gt; =
to=20
  non-sane inputs either.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Great summary.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; =

  Mallikarjun&gt; Sounds like an agreement to not add any new text to=20
  me.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Well, Eddy raised the issue a while back that some =
people=20
  writing<BR>&gt; conformance tests were interpreting "initiator must do =
X" as=20
  "target<BR>&gt; must check that initiator does X". &nbsp;That's =
clearly an=20
  incorrect<BR>&gt; conclusion. &nbsp;But given that people make this =
mistake, I=20
  wonder if a<BR>&gt; note in the guide saying "unless RFC 3720 =
specifically=20
  requires it, an<BR>&gt; implementation is not required to do protocol=20
  conformance checking on<BR>&gt; incoming message", or something like =
that,=20
  would be helpful.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp;=20
  &nbsp;paul<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;=20
  _______________________________________________<BR>&gt; Ips mailing=20
  list<BR>&gt; Ips@ietf.org<BR>&gt;=20
  https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ips<BR>&gt;=20
  <BR><BR><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>Ips =
mailing=20
  =
list<BR>Ips@ietf.org<BR>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ips<BR></F=
ONT></TT><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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_______________________________________________
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Ips@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ips

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From: "Mallikarjun C." <cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ips] iSCSI Implementer's Guide - WG Last Call status
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I will add something very close to what Paul had suggested.  Thanks to all =
for contributing to the discussion.=0A=0AMallikarjun=0A=0A=0A----- Original=
 Message ----=0AFrom: Eddy Quicksall <Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net>=0ATo: =
Julian Satran <Julian_Satran@il.ibm.com>=0ACc: cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com; ip=
s@ietf.org; Paul Koning <pkoning@equallogic.com>=0ASent: Friday, January 5,=
 2007 3:49:05 PM=0ASubject: Re: [Ips] iSCSI Implementer's Guide - WG Last C=
all status=0A=0A=0AJust another note on what you said below "it was stated =
here several times...". I know it has been in emails for a long time but I =
found that testers' don't use what is said in emails as a criteria. That is=
 why I thought it would be good to add a statement.=0A =0AEddy=0A----- Orig=
inal Message ----- =0AFrom: Julian Satran =0ATo: Eddy Quicksall =0ACc: cb_m=
allikarjun@yahoo.com ; ips@ietf.org ; Paul Koning =0ASent: Friday, January =
05, 2007 3:27 PM=0ASubject: Re: [Ips] iSCSI Implementer's Guide - WG Last C=
all status=0A=0A=0A=0AEddy, =0A=0AIt was stated here several times already =
that the general rule in RFCs is that sender has to be strict and the recei=
ver lenient. =0AIt is however really difficult to say what exactly lenient =
means (as it is very much dependent on implementations). The rules are stat=
ed in terms of what a sender must do. =0AIt is also obvious that draft auth=
ors would be reluctant to make a blanket statement of the receiver not bein=
g manadated to check (as in some case that might be blatantly incorrect). J=
ust to give you an example - would it be acceptable to say that a sender ha=
s to put a correct CRC in the frame but the receiver is free not to check i=
t ? =0AA blanket statement like the one you requested would cover such a be=
haviour too (that would be obviously incorect). Perhaps a statement along t=
he lines of what Paul suggest ed with  the caveat -"as long as it does not =
violate an explicit rule" should be enough. =0A=0ARegards, =0AJulo =0A=0A=
=0A"Eddy Quicksall" <Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net> =0A05/01/07 11:25 To"Pa=
ul Koning" <pkoning@equallogic.com>, <cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com> =0Accips@ie=
tf.org =0ASubjectRe: [Ips] iSCSI Implementer's Guide - WG Last Call status=
=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AI remember long ago talking about this when we were=
 developing the RFC. I =0Aremember some people clearly saying that if the R=
FC said "must do X" then it =0Ameant that the peer "must check X". I didn't=
 pursue the issue because it =0Aseemed to be of little importance.=0A=0ABut=
 as time went on and the draft got finalized, I ran into cases where that =
=0Aview was still taken to hart. Of course "the customer is always right" s=
o I =0Aadded checks.=0A=0AMore recently I thought that since this guide was=
 being written that maybe a =0Asimple statement could be made to clarify th=
e issue.=0A=0AI'm not debating the issue of the importance of making a chec=
k or even the =0Acriteria for making the check.=0A=0AEddy=0A=0A____________=
______________________________________=0ADo You Yahoo!?=0ATired of spam?  Y=
ahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around =0Ahttp://mail.yahoo.com 
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<html><head><style type=3D"text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;} --></style></he=
ad><body><div style=3D"font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;=
font-size:12pt"><DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman=
, new york, times, serif">I will add something very close to what Paul had =
suggested.&nbsp; Thanks to all for contributing to the discussion.</DIV>=0A=
<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, time=
s, serif">&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times =
new roman, new york, times, serif">Mallikarjun<BR><BR></DIV>=0A<DIV style=
=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif">=
----- Original Message ----<BR>From: Eddy Quicksall &lt;Quicksall_iSCSI@Bel=
lsouth.net&gt;<BR>To: Julian Satran &lt;Julian_Satran@il.ibm.com&gt;<BR>Cc:=
 cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com; ips@ietf.org; Paul Koning &lt;pkoning@equallogic=
.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Friday, January 5, 2007 3:49:05 PM<BR>Subject: Re: [Ips] =
iSCSI Implementer's Guide - WG Last Call status<BR><BR>=0A<STYLE></STYLE>=
=0A=0A<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Just another note on what you said below "it was =
stated here several times...". I know it has been in emails for a long time=
 but I found that testers' don't use what is said in emails as a criteria. =
That is why I thought it would be good to add a statement.</FONT></DIV>=0A<=
DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Eddy</FONT></D=
IV>=0A<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LE=
FT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">=0A<DIV style=
=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"B=
ACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial"><B>From:</B> <A title=3DJulian_Satran=
@il.ibm.com href=3D"mailto:Julian_Satran@il.ibm.com" target=3D_blank rel=3D=
nofollow>Julian Satran</A> </DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:<=
/B> <A title=3DQuicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net href=3D"mailto:Quicksall_iSCSI=
@Bellsouth.net" target=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow>Eddy Quicksall</A> </DIV>=0A=
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A title=3Dcb_mallikarjun@yahoo.=
com href=3D"mailto:cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com" target=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow=
>cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com</A> ; <A title=3Dips@ietf.org href=3D"mailto:ips@=
ietf.org" target=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow>ips@ietf.org</A> ; <A title=3Dpkon=
ing@equallogic.com href=3D"mailto:pkoning@equallogic.com" target=3D_blank r=
el=3Dnofollow>Paul Koning</A> </DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>S=
ent:</B> Friday, January 05, 2007 3:27 PM</DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt =
arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Ips] iSCSI Implementer's Guide - WG Last Call s=
tatus</DIV>=0A<DIV><BR></DIV><BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>Eddy,</FO=
NT> <BR><BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>It was stated here several tim=
es already that the general rule in RFCs is that sender has to be strict an=
d the receiver lenient.</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>It is h=
owever really difficult to say what exactly lenient means (as it is very mu=
ch dependent on implementations). The rules are stated in terms of what a s=
ender must do.</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>It is also obvio=
us that draft authors would be reluctant to make a blanket statement of the=
 receiver not being manadated to check (as in some case that might be blata=
ntly incorrect). Just to give you an example - would it be acceptable to sa=
y that a sender has to put a correct CRC in the frame but the receiver is f=
ree not to check it ?</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>A blanket=
 statement like the one you requested would cover such a behaviour too (tha=
t would be obviously incorect). Perhaps a
 statement along the lines of what Paul suggest ed with &nbsp;the caveat -"=
as long as it does not violate an explicit rule" should be enough.</FONT> <=
BR><BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>Regards,</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3Dsa=
ns-serif size=3D2>Julo</FONT> <BR><BR><BR>=0A<TABLE width=3D"100%">=0A<TBOD=
Y>=0A<TR vAlign=3Dtop>=0A<TD width=3D"40%"><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1=
><B>"Eddy Quicksall" &lt;Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net&gt;</B> </FONT>=0A<P=
><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>05/01/07 11:25</FONT> </P>=0A<TD width=3D=
"59%">=0A<TABLE width=3D"100%">=0A<TBODY>=0A<TR vAlign=3Dtop>=0A<TD>=0A<DIV=
 align=3Dright><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>To</FONT></DIV>=0A<TD><FONT=
 face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>"Paul Koning" &lt;pkoning@equallogic.com&gt;, &=
lt;cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com&gt;</FONT> =0A<TR vAlign=3Dtop>=0A<TD>=0A<DIV a=
lign=3Dright><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>cc</FONT></DIV>=0A<TD><FONT f=
ace=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>ips@ietf.org</FONT> =0A<TR vAlign=3Dtop>=0A<TD>=
=0A<DIV align=3Dright><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>Subject</FONT></DIV>=
=0A<TD><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>Re: [Ips] iSCSI Implementer's Guide=
 - WG Last Call status</FONT></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR>=0A<TABLE>=0A<TB=
ODY>=0A<TR vAlign=3Dtop>=0A<TD>=0A<TD></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></TD></=
TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR><BR><BR><TT><FONT size=3D2>I remember long ago talki=
ng about this when we were developing the RFC. I <BR>remember some people c=
learly saying that if the RFC said "must do X" then it <BR>meant that the p=
eer "must check X". I didn't pursue the issue because it <BR>seemed to be o=
f little importance.<BR><BR>But as time went on and the draft got finalized=
, I ran into cases where that <BR>view was still taken to hart. Of course "=
the customer is always right" so I <BR>added checks.<BR><BR>More recently I=
 thought that since this guide was being written that maybe a <BR>simple st=
atement could be made to clarify the issue.<BR><BR>I'm not debating the iss=
ue of the importance of making a check or even the <BR>criteria for making =
the check.<BR><BR>Eddy<BR><BR></FONT></TT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>=0A<DIV style=
=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif">=
&nbsp;</DIV></div><br>__________________________________________________<br=
>Do You Yahoo!?<br>Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection=
 around <br>http://mail.yahoo.com </body></html>
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From ips-bounces@ietf.org Fri Jan 05 20:20:22 2007
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From: "Eddy Quicksall" <Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net>
To: "Julian Satran" <Julian_Satran@il.ibm.com>
References: <OF28D100AF.1940247A-ONC2257243.00556ABF-C2257243.0055AC7D@il.ibm.com>
Subject: Re: [Ips] Implementer's Guide - Task Management Issue
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The ITT-TTT are tracked for the life of the task.

Eddy
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Julian Satran=20
  To: Eddy Quicksall=20
  Cc: ips@ietf.org ; Black_David@emc.com=20
  Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 10:35 AM
  Subject: Re: [Ips] Implementer's Guide - Task Management Issue



  If your target  answers fast and expects data from other initiators it =
may have to track ITT-TTT. This is not on the fast path (data path) so I =
am not quite sure what is difficult.=20

  Julo=20


        "Eddy Quicksall" <Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net>=20
        13/12/06 00:46=20
       To <Black_David@emc.com>, Julian Satran/Haifa/IBM@IBMIL =20
              cc <ips@ietf.org> =20
              Subject Re: [Ips] Implementer's Guide - Task Management =
Issue=20

             =20

      =20



  I want to be sure of something here ... you are not requiring this =
ITT-TTT tracking are you? It would be very difficult for hardware.=20
   =20
  Eddy=20
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Julian Satran=20
  To: Black_David@emc.com=20
  Cc: ips@ietf.org=20
  Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 3:12 PM=20
  Subject: RE: [Ips] Implementer's Guide - Task Management Issue=20


  David,=20

  The issue you are describing falls in the same category.=20
  Target can answer to B as soon as it has "purged" the tasks regardless =
of what A does.=20
  For safety the implementation should keep the pairs ITT-TTT and make =
sure it does not reuse=20
  the TTTs with the same ITT for a while or force closing offending =
sessions.=20
  There is no need to really delay the TM response - just act as if all =
outsanding activity died out and ignore data reaching the target.=20

  Julo=20

        Black_David@emc.com=20
        12/12/06 20:26=20
      =20
              To Julian Satran/Haifa/IBM@IBMIL =20
              cc <ips@ietf.org> =20
              Subject RE: [Ips] Implementer's Guide - Task Management =
Issue=20


             =20

      =20




  Julian,=20
  =20
  > As for the issue raised by Bill Studemund I am not sure that the =
target needs help in=20
  > recovering buffers (and I am not sure that I am not repeating what I =
said already in he past).=20
  =20
  The motivating concern is not buffer recovery - it's the ability of an =
uncooperative initiator=20
  to delay completion of a TMF issued by a different initiator.  Here's =
an example:=20
  =20
  - Initiator A has one or more data transfers in progress to the =
target.=20
  - Initiator A dies in some inconvenient fashion.  The target thinks =
the iSCSI
    session with Initiator A is still alive, but Initiator A is =
non-responsive.=20
  - Initiator B issues a TMF that has the effect of aborting Initiator =
A's tasks=20
     (e.g., CLEAR TASK SET).=20
  =20
  The issue is: When can the target issue the TMF response to Initiator =
B?=20
  =20
  Current RFC 3720 language requires completion of Initiator A's data =
transfers or timing=20
  out and dropping Initiator A's session - Section 10.5.1: "The target =
on its part MUST=20
  wait for responses on all affected target transfer tags before acting =
on either of these=20
  two task management requests".  In this example, the data transfers =
will not=20
  complete, requiring timing out and dropping the session before the TMF =
response=20
  can be issued.=20
  =20
  The request is that it be permissible for the target to redirect =
Initiator A's data transfers=20
  to bit-buckets (just in case Initiator A is not actually completely =
dead) and issue the TMF=20
  response once that redirection (as well as everything that RFC 3720 =
requires with=20
  respect to Initiator B) is done so that the TMF response doesn't have =
to wait for the=20
  target to time out and tear down the session with Initiator A.=20
  =20
  Thanks,=20
  --David=20
  ----------------------------------------------------=20
  David L. Black, Senior Technologist=20
  EMC Corporation, 176 South St., Hopkinton, MA  01748=20
  +1 (508) 293-7953             FAX: +1 (508) 293-7786=20
  black_david@emc.com        Mobile: +1 (978) 394-7754=20
  ----------------------------------------------------=20

-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----
  From: Julian Satran [mailto:Julian_Satran@il.ibm.com]=20
  Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 8:03 AM
  To: Black, David
  Cc: cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com; ips@ietf.org
  Subject: RE: [Ips] Implementer's Guide - Task Management Issue


  David and Mallikarjun,=20

  I had a long discussion with Mallikarjun on a part of this problem - =
namely cleaning the T-2-I path.=20
  This could be done in several ways and Mallikarjun and I where also =
playing with sending the closing TM response on all connections as a way =
to speed up pipe cleaning.=20

  As for the issue raised by Bill Studemund I am not sure that the =
target needs help in recovering buffers (and I am not sure that I am not =
repeating what I said already in he past).=20
  As TTT is a target conceived artifact - buffers can be retired and the =
target can refrain from reusing the TTT with the given ITTs for some =
time (the rules must be quite simple).=20
  If data arrives with the bad combination - it is just discarded at the =
target.=20

  This ways TMF can be sent early - regardless of oustanding data - =
provided that the target respects some simple rules for TTT use/reuse.=20
  Considering also that TTTs are also not mandated to be unique beyond a =
single LUN - buffer retirement while an issue can be solved within 3270. =


  Regards,=20
  Julo=20


        Black_David@emc.com=20
        11/12/06 20:56=20
      =20
              To <cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com>, <ips@ietf.org> =20
              cc =20
              Subject RE: [Ips] Implementer's Guide - Task Management =
Issue=20



             =20

      =20





  Mallikarjun,

  [NB: Working group chair hat is **off**.]

  > "I assume this is essentially what you are proposing that we=20
  > consider (fast multi-task abort with outstanding TTTs always,=20
  > even without the key negotiation)."

  Not exactly - comments interspersed below, but what I'm proposing
  is that in the absence of negotiation of the new key, the portion
  of "fast multi-task abort" that allows the TMF response to be
  returned in the face of outstanding TTTs be allowed *only* for
  transfers from initiators *other* than the one that sent the TMF.
  I believe that Bill Studemund raised this concern earlier, but
  I admit to missing its significance at the time.

  In other words when the key is not negotiated, a TMF that aborts
  tasks from multiple initiators behaves differently at the target
  with respect to the initiators involved:
  a) There can be no change to currently specified behavior with
                respect to the sender of the TMF.  All TTT transfers =
have
                to complete, and the TMF response cannot be sent until
                the transfers are complete, otherwise a 3720-compliant
                initiator may see something that it doesn't expect.
  b) Transfers from other initiators may be bit-bucketed early at
                the target - this would be new behavior, and new =
language
                would be needed to allow the TMF response to be sent =
once
                these transfers from other initiators are redirected to
                bit-buckets.  This does not affect a 3720-compliant
                initiator, as these other initiators do not receive a
                response to this TMF.
  The only change is the latter, and it has the effect of removing
  a cross-initiator dependence for completion of the TMF.  The use
  case is that there is still cluster software out there using TMFs
  to maintain cluster membership instead of persistent reservations,
  even though the latter is what should be used.

  > Sorry for the delay in getting back.  Between vacation and=20
  > other travel, it took me a while.  Thanks for the comments.
  >=20
  > You wrote this regarding fast multi-task abort:
  > >This property is
  > >useful even if the new key is not negotiated (and hence the
  > >AsyncEvent 5 message is not used for fast abort of data transfers)
  >=20
  > I assume this is essentially what you are proposing that we=20
  > consider (fast multi-task abort with outstanding TTTs always,=20
  > even without the key negotiation).

  Not exactly, see above.

  > The reason we decided a new key is needed here was for two reasons:
  > 1. Whenever TMF does a fast completion, target needs an=20
  > (eventual) deterministic confirmation that data transfers had=20
  > stopped.  The confirmation is Nop-Out, and the negotiation=20
  > for the new Nop-Out is via the FastMultiTaskAbort key.
  > 2. The initiator requirement in the "classic" case (i.e. key=20
  > not negotiated) is that it respond to each TTT for affected=20
  > tasks even while the task is "affected".  We wanted an=20
  > opposite behavior, but with a confirmation that the data=20
  > transfers had stopped (so target can recover the buffer=20
  > resources).  The key allows this new behavior on initiator's=20
  > part as well.

  I agree that the new key is clearly required in order to
  terminate any TTT data transfer from any initiator early
  for the above reasons.

  The proposal is that the TMF response be allowed to be sent
  in the face of outstanding transfers from initiators *other*
  than the one that sent the TMF.  This does not appear to
  require a new key be negotiated with the *other* initiators,
  as (in the absence of a failure) they will complete those
  transfers normally.

  > >This is approximately
  > >what is described in the Implementation Note at the end of
  > >Section 4.1.3, although that note may have been intended to
  > >be iSER-specific - if so, this is a proposal to apply it to
  > >iSCSI without the RDMA extensions.
  >=20
  > Actually the note is intended for all iSCSI implementations. =20
  > After seeing your observation, I decided that it needs=20
  > improvement, I propose the following new text:
  >=20
  > "Implementation note: Technically, the TMF servicing is=20
  > complete in Step.e.  Data transfers corresponding to=20
  > terminated tasks may however still be in progress even at the=20
  > end of Step.f.  TMF Response MUST NOT be sent by the target=20
  > iSCSI layer before the end of Step.e, and may be sent at the=20
  > end of Step.e despite these outstanding Data transfers until=20
  > Step.g.

  Nit: "may be sent" --> "MAY be sent"

  > These data transfers, if any, MUST be silently=20
  > discarded by the target iSCSI layer.  In the case of=20
  > iSCSI/iSER, these transfers would be into tagged buffers with=20
  > STags not owned by any active tasks.

  I suggest adding: "; other implementations would deploy
  analogous resources to support this discarding".

  > Step.g specifies an=20
  > event to free up the resources.  A target may, on an=20
  > implementation-defined internal timeout, also choose to drop=20
  > the connections on which it did not receive the expected=20
  > Nop-Out acknowledgements so as to reclaim the associated=20
  > buffer, STag and TTT resources as appropriate."

  Nit: "A target may" --> "A target MAY"

  > Now that I read the text after a long time, I spotted an=20
  > unintended double negative in section 4.1.3, target behavior,=20
  > bullet d-ii.  The text should read:
  > "ii) each connection except the issuing connection of the=20
  > issuing session that has at least one allegiant affected=20
  > task."    (i.e. drop "non" from "non-issuing")

  Ok.

  > The other thing that came to my mind after reading your note=20
  > is that we don't currently have a generic key to capture the=20
  > Response Fence behavior - although response fencing underlies=20
  > both the fast multi-task abort as well as addressing ACA race=20
  > conditions (and perhaps others down the road. e.g. around=20
  > persistent reservations).  So, today, the Note at the end of=20
  > section 3.3.3 advises that implementations may check the=20
  > FastMultiTaskAbort key to verify if safe behavior for MCS ACA=20
  > is supported, although ACA has really nothing to do with=20
  > multi-task aborting.  I am wondering if we should create a=20
  > new key (say ResponseFence), so the semantics would become:
  >                                                                      =
=20
  >        ResponseFence    "Yes"  fencing done by target     =20
  >                                    "No"   legacy, no fencing=20
  > (so "clarified" TMF semantics are not possible either)
  >       =20
  > With ResponseFence=3D    "Yes"
  > FastMultiTaskAbort    =20
  >       "Yes"                   fast abort & fencing             =20
  >        "No"                    traditional wait on=20
  > outstanding TTTs (fencing on ACA is still possible)
  >=20
  > With ResponseFence=3D    "No"
  > FastMultiTaskAbort    =20
  >       "Yes"                   Illegal, Response Fence must be "Yes"
  >        "No"                    No fencing, must wait on=20
  > outstanding TTTs
  >  =20
  >=20
  > The downside of this scheme is that it may be going in the=20
  > opposite direction than you wanted (introduces a second key=20
  > that 3720-compliant implementations don't know about).  We=20
  > could alternatively simply mandate the behavior equivalent to=20
  > ResponseFence =3D "Yes" always and avoid the second key, but=20
  > doing so could make the current 3720-compliant=20
  > implementations technically non-iSCSI-compliant.
  >=20
  > Comments?

  Given the inter-dependence of ResponseFence and FastMultiTaskAbort,
  a single 3-valued key is probably simpler than two boolean keys.
  I think having an explicit means of determining whether ACA behaves
  correctly on an multi-connection-session is worth adding.

  Thanks,
  --David=20

  > Mallikarjun                            =20
  >=20
  > ----- Original Message ----
  > From: "Black_David@emc.com" <Black_David@emc.com>
  > To: ips@ietf.org
  > Cc: Black_David@emc.com
  > Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2006 2:00:25 PM
  > Subject: [Ips] Implementer's Guide - Task Management Issue
  >=20
  >=20
  > To make sure we actually have some content to talk about in
  > this WG Last Call, I'm going to reraise an issue that came
  > up earlier on the mailing list, but (as far as I can recall)
  > never got resolved.  This is done with my WG chair hat OFF,
  > and it is a proposal for further discussion.
  >=20
  > Section 4.1.3 changes task management, and is a non-transparent
  > change - it requires negotiating a new key so that both sides
  > agree that they support the change as it uses a round-trip
  > exchange of a new message (AsyncEvent 5) between initiator and
  > target to abort in-progress data transfers rather than completing
  > them.  Absent this message, the target expects the initiator(s)
  > to complete all in-progress transfers, and is entitled to be
  > unhappy or worse if that doesn't happen.
  >=20
  > For task management functions that affect tasks from more than
  > one initiator (CLEAR TASK SET, TARGET WARM RESET, TARGET COLD
  > RESET)  Section 4.1.3 also allows the task management function
  > (TMF) to complete while the in-progress data transfers are still
  > being dealt with, which has the useful effect of avoiding a
  > situation in which an uncooperative initiator can stall the
  > progress of a TMF sent by another initiator.  This property is
  > useful even if the new key is not negotiated (and hence the
  > AsyncEvent 5 message is not used for fast abort of data transfers)
  > although I think the target behavior is subtly different between
  > the initiator that sent the TMF and other initiators in this case:
  > - For the TMF sender, the target must wait for all outstanding
  >     transfers to complete before completing the TMF, otherwise
  >     the TMF completion comes back too early for an unmodified
  >     initiator.
  > - For the other initiators, the data transfers can be immediately
  >     redirected to bit buckets so the TMF can be completed without
  >     waits beyond that for the TMF sender.  This is approximately
  >     what is described in the Implementation Note at the end of
  >     Section 4.1.3, although that note may have been intended to
  >     be iSER-specific - if so, this is a proposal to apply it to
  >     iSCSI without the RDMA extensions.
  >=20
  > High Availability clustering environments in which TMFs are being
  > used to determine cluster membership (yes, there's code out there
  > that does this, even though everyone should be using PERSISTENT
  > RESERVE) are a specific situation where this helps, as having to
  > wait for a dead initiator to expire (the TCP connection(s) have
  > to timeout and get torn down) slows down cluster recovery from a
  > failure.  This change in target behavior (to complete a TMF faster
  > if other initiators don't cooperate) should be transparent to
  > RFC 3720-compliant initiators, but RFC 3720 has to be modified
  > in order to allow it; the Implementer's Guide is a vehicle that
  > can make that modification.
  >=20
  > This is proposed for further discussion.
  >=20
  > Thanks,
  > --David
  > ----------------------------------------------------
  > David L. Black, Senior Technologist
  > EMC Corporation, 176 South St., Hopkinton, MA  01748
  > +1 (508) 293-7953             FAX: +1 (508) 293-7786
  > black_david@emc.com        Mobile: +1 (978) 394-7754
  > ----------------------------------------------------

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<DIV><FONT size=3D2>The ITT-TTT are tracked for the life of the =
task.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Eddy</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3DJulian_Satran@il.ibm.com=20
  href=3D"mailto:Julian_Satran@il.ibm.com">Julian Satran</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
  title=3DQuicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net=20
  href=3D"mailto:Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net">Eddy Quicksall</A> =
</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A title=3Dips@ietf.org=20
  href=3D"mailto:ips@ietf.org">ips@ietf.org</A> ; <A =
title=3DBlack_David@emc.com=20
  href=3D"mailto:Black_David@emc.com">Black_David@emc.com</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, December 13, =
2006 10:35=20
  AM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Ips] =
Implementer's Guide -=20
  Task Management Issue</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV><BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>If your target =
&nbsp;answers=20
  fast and expects data from other initiators it may have to track =
ITT-TTT. This=20
  is not on the fast path (data path) so I am not quite sure what is=20
  difficult.</FONT> <BR><BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>Julo</FONT> =

<BR><BR><BR>
  <TABLE width=3D"100%">
    <TBODY>
    <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
      <TD width=3D"40%"><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1><B>"Eddy =
Quicksall" &lt;<A=20
        =
href=3D"mailto:Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net">Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.n=
et</A>&gt;</B>=20
        </FONT>
        <P><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>13/12/06 00:46</FONT> </P>
      <TD width=3D"59%">
        <TABLE width=3D"100%">
          <TBODY>
          <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
            <TD>
              <DIV align=3Dright><FONT face=3Dsans-serif =
size=3D1>To</FONT></DIV>
            <TD><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>&lt;<A=20
              =
href=3D"mailto:Black_David@emc.com">Black_David@emc.com</A>&gt;,=20
              Julian <A=20
              =
href=3D"mailto:Satran/Haifa/IBM@IBMIL">Satran/Haifa/IBM@IBMIL</A></FONT> =


          <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
            <TD>
              <DIV align=3Dright><FONT face=3Dsans-serif =
size=3D1>cc</FONT></DIV>
            <TD><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>&lt;<A=20
              href=3D"mailto:ips@ietf.org">ips@ietf.org</A>&gt;</FONT>=20
          <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
            <TD>
              <DIV align=3Dright><FONT face=3Dsans-serif =
size=3D1>Subject</FONT></DIV>
            <TD><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>Re: [Ips] Implementer's =
Guide -=20
              Task Management Issue</FONT></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR>
        <TABLE>
          <TBODY>
          <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
            <TD>
            =
<TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR><BR><BR><FONT =
size=3D2>I=20
  want to be sure of something here ... you are not requiring this =
ITT-TTT=20
  tracking are you? It would be very difficult for hardware.</FONT> =
<BR><FONT=20
  size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>Eddy</FONT> <BR><FONT =
size=3D3>-----=20
  Original Message ----- </FONT><BR><FONT size=3D3><B>From:</B> =
</FONT><A=20
  href=3D"mailto:Julian_Satran@il.ibm.com"><FONT color=3Dblue =
size=3D3><U>Julian=20
  Satran</U></FONT></A><FONT size=3D3> </FONT><BR><FONT =
size=3D3><B>To:</B>=20
  </FONT><A href=3D"mailto:Black_David@emc.com"><FONT color=3Dblue=20
  size=3D3><U>Black_David@emc.com</U></FONT></A><FONT size=3D3> =
</FONT><BR><FONT=20
  size=3D3><B>Cc:</B> </FONT><A href=3D"mailto:ips@ietf.org"><FONT =
color=3Dblue=20
  size=3D3><U>ips@ietf.org</U></FONT></A><FONT size=3D3> =
</FONT><BR><FONT=20
  size=3D3><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, December 12, 2006 3:12 PM</FONT> =
<BR><FONT=20
  size=3D3><B>Subject:</B> RE: [Ips] Implementer's Guide - Task =
Management=20
  Issue</FONT> <BR><BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif =
size=3D2><BR>David,</FONT><FONT=20
  size=3D3> <BR></FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2><BR>The issue =
you are=20
  describing falls in the same category.</FONT><FONT size=3D3> =
</FONT><FONT=20
  face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2><BR>Target can answer to B as soon as it =
has "purged"=20
  the tasks regardless of what A does.</FONT><FONT size=3D3> =
</FONT><FONT=20
  face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2><BR>For safety the implementation should =
keep the pairs=20
  ITT-TTT and make sure it does not reuse</FONT><FONT size=3D3> =
</FONT><FONT=20
  face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2><BR>the TTTs with the same ITT for a while =
or force=20
  closing offending sessions.</FONT><FONT size=3D3> </FONT><FONT =
face=3Dsans-serif=20
  size=3D2><BR>There is no need to really delay the TM response - just =
act as if=20
  all outsanding activity died out and ignore data reaching the=20
  target.</FONT><FONT size=3D3> <BR></FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif=20
  size=3D2><BR>Julo</FONT><FONT size=3D3> <BR><BR></FONT>
  <TABLE width=3D"100%">
    <TBODY>
    <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
      <TD width=3D"31%"><FONT face=3Dsans-serif =
size=3D1><B>Black_David@emc.com</B>=20
        </FONT>
        <P><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>12/12/06 20:26</FONT><FONT =
size=3D3>=20
        </FONT></P>
      <TD width=3D"68%"><BR>
        <TABLE width=3D"100%">
          <TBODY>
          <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
            <TD width=3D"12%">
              <DIV align=3Dright><FONT face=3Dsans-serif =
size=3D1>To</FONT></DIV>
            <TD width=3D"87%"><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>Julian=20
              Satran/Haifa/IBM@IBMIL</FONT><FONT size=3D3> </FONT>
          <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
            <TD>
              <DIV align=3Dright><FONT face=3Dsans-serif =
size=3D1>cc</FONT></DIV>
            <TD><FONT face=3Dsans-serif =
size=3D1>&lt;ips@ietf.org&gt;</FONT><FONT=20
              size=3D3> </FONT>
          <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
            <TD>
              <DIV align=3Dright><FONT face=3Dsans-serif =
size=3D1>Subject</FONT></DIV>
            <TD><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>RE: [Ips] Implementer's =
Guide -=20
              Task Management Issue</FONT></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR><BR>
        <TABLE>
          <TBODY>
          <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
            <TD>
            <TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR><FONT=20
  size=3D3><BR><BR></FONT><FONT face=3D"Courier New" =
size=3D2><BR>Julian,</FONT><FONT=20
  size=3D3> <BR>&nbsp;</FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><BR>&gt; As for =
the issue=20
  raised by Bill Studemund I am not sure that the target needs help=20
  in</FONT><FONT size=3D3> </FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><BR>&gt; =
recovering=20
  buffers (and I am not sure that I am not repeating what I said already =
in he=20
  past).</FONT><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3> </FONT><FONT=20
  size=3D3><BR>&nbsp;</FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><BR>The =
motivating concern is=20
  not buffer recovery - it's the ability of an uncooperative=20
  initiator</FONT><FONT size=3D3> </FONT><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><BR>to delay=20
  completion of a TMF issued by a different initiator. &nbsp;Here's an=20
  example:</FONT><FONT size=3D3> <BR>&nbsp;</FONT><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><BR>-=20
  Initiator A has one or more data transfers in progress to the=20
  target.</FONT><FONT size=3D3> </FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><BR>- =
Initiator A=20
  dies in some inconvenient fashion. &nbsp;The target thinks the =
iSCSI<BR>&nbsp;=20
  session with Initiator A is still alive, but Initiator A is=20
  non-responsive.</FONT><FONT size=3D3> </FONT><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><BR>-=20
  Initiator B issues a TMF that has the effect of aborting Initiator A's =

  tasks</FONT><FONT size=3D3> </FONT><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><BR>&nbsp;=20
  &nbsp;(e.g., CLEAR TASK SET).</FONT><FONT size=3D3> =
<BR>&nbsp;</FONT><FONT=20
  face=3DArial size=3D2><BR>The issue is: When can the target issue the =
TMF response=20
  to Initiator B?</FONT><FONT size=3D3> <BR>&nbsp;</FONT><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  size=3D2><BR>Current RFC 3720 language requires completion of =
Initiator A's data=20
  transfers or timing</FONT><FONT size=3D3> </FONT><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><BR>out=20
  and dropping Initiator A's session - Section 10.5.1: "The target on =
its part=20
  MUST</FONT><FONT size=3D3> </FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><BR>wait =
for responses=20
  on all affected target transfer tags before acting on either of=20
  these</FONT><FONT size=3D3> </FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><BR>two =
task=20
  management requests". &nbsp;In this example, the data transfers will=20
  not</FONT><FONT size=3D3> </FONT><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><BR>complete, requiring=20
  timing out and dropping the session before the TMF =
response</FONT><FONT=20
  size=3D3> </FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><BR>can be =
issued.</FONT><FONT size=3D3>=20
  <BR>&nbsp;</FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><BR>The request is that =
it be=20
  permissible for the target to redirect Initiator A's data=20
  transfers</FONT><FONT size=3D3> </FONT><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><BR>to=20
  bit-buckets (just in case Initiator A is not actually completely dead) =
and=20
  issue the TMF</FONT><FONT size=3D3> </FONT><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><BR>response=20
  once that redirection (as well as everything that RFC 3720 requires=20
  with</FONT><FONT size=3D3> </FONT><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><BR>respect to=20
  Initiator B) is done so that the TMF response doesn't have to wait for =

  the</FONT><FONT size=3D3> </FONT><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><BR>target to time out=20
  and tear down the session with Initiator A.</FONT><FONT size=3D3>=20
  <BR>&nbsp;</FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><BR>Thanks,</FONT><FONT =
size=3D3>=20
  </FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><BR>--David</FONT><FONT size=3D3> =
</FONT><FONT=20
  face=3D"Courier New"=20
  =
size=3D2><BR>----------------------------------------------------</FONT><=
FONT=20
  size=3D3> </FONT><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><BR>David L. =
Black, Senior=20
  Technologist</FONT><FONT size=3D3> </FONT><FONT face=3D"Courier New"=20
  size=3D2><BR>EMC Corporation, 176 South St., Hopkinton, MA=20
  &nbsp;01748</FONT><FONT size=3D3> </FONT><FONT face=3D"Courier New" =
size=3D2><BR>+1=20
  (508) 293-7953 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; FAX: +1 (508) =

  293-7786</FONT><FONT size=3D3> </FONT><FONT face=3D"Courier New"=20
  size=3D2><BR>black_david@emc.com &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Mobile: +1 =
(978)=20
  394-7754</FONT><FONT size=3D3> </FONT><FONT face=3D"Courier New"=20
  =
size=3D2><BR>----------------------------------------------------</FONT><=
FONT=20
  size=3D3> <BR></FONT>
  <HR>
  <FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> Julian Satran=20
  [mailto:Julian_Satran@il.ibm.com] <B><BR>Sent:</B> Tuesday, December =
12, 2006=20
  8:03 AM<B><BR>To:</B> Black, David<B><BR>Cc:</B> =
cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com;=20
  ips@ietf.org<B><BR>Subject:</B> RE: [Ips] Implementer's Guide - Task=20
  Management Issue</FONT><FONT size=3D3><BR></FONT><FONT =
face=3Dsans-serif=20
  size=3D2><BR><BR>David and Mallikarjun,</FONT><FONT size=3D3> =
</FONT><FONT=20
  face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2><BR><BR>I had a long discussion with =
Mallikarjun on a=20
  part of this problem - namely cleaning the T-2-I path.</FONT><FONT =
size=3D3>=20
  </FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2><BR>This could be done in =
several ways and=20
  Mallikarjun and I where also playing with sending the closing TM =
response on=20
  all connections as a way to speed up pipe cleaning.</FONT><FONT =
size=3D3>=20
  </FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2><BR><BR>As for the issue =
raised by Bill=20
  Studemund I am not sure that the target needs help in recovering =
buffers (and=20
  I am not sure that I am not repeating what I said already in he=20
  past).</FONT><FONT size=3D3> </FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif =
size=3D2><BR>As TTT is a=20
  target conceived artifact - buffers can be retired and the target can =
refrain=20
  from reusing the TTT with the given ITTs for some time (the rules must =
be=20
  quite simple).</FONT><FONT size=3D3> </FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif =
size=3D2><BR>If=20
  data arrives with the bad combination - it is just discarded at the=20
  target.</FONT><FONT size=3D3> </FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif =
size=3D2><BR><BR>This=20
  ways TMF can be sent early - regardless of oustanding data - provided =
that the=20
  target respects some simple rules for TTT use/reuse.</FONT><FONT =
size=3D3>=20
  </FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2><BR>Considering also that TTTs =
are also=20
  not mandated to be unique beyond a single LUN - buffer retirement =
while an=20
  issue can be solved within 3270.</FONT><FONT size=3D3> </FONT><FONT=20
  face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2><BR><BR>Regards,</FONT><FONT size=3D3> =
</FONT><FONT=20
  face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2><BR>Julo</FONT><FONT size=3D3> =
<BR><BR><BR></FONT>
  <TABLE width=3D"100%">
    <TBODY>
    <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
      <TD width=3D"31%"><FONT face=3Dsans-serif =
size=3D1><B>Black_David@emc.com</B>=20
        </FONT>
        <P><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>11/12/06 20:56</FONT><FONT =
size=3D3>=20
        </FONT></P>
      <TD width=3D"68%"><BR>
        <TABLE width=3D"100%">
          <TBODY>
          <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
            <TD width=3D"12%">
              <DIV align=3Dright><FONT face=3Dsans-serif =
size=3D1>To</FONT></DIV>
            <TD width=3D"87%"><FONT face=3Dsans-serif=20
              size=3D1>&lt;cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com&gt;,=20
              &lt;ips@ietf.org&gt;</FONT><FONT size=3D3> </FONT>
          <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
            <TD>
              <DIV align=3Dright><FONT face=3Dsans-serif =
size=3D1>cc</FONT></DIV>
            <TD>
          <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
            <TD>
              <DIV align=3Dright><FONT face=3Dsans-serif =
size=3D1>Subject</FONT></DIV>
            <TD><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>RE: [Ips] Implementer's =
Guide -=20
              Task Management Issue</FONT></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR><FONT =

        size=3D3><BR></FONT><BR>
        <TABLE>
          <TBODY>
          <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
            <TD>
            <TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR><FONT=20
  size=3D3><BR><BR></FONT><TT><FONT =
size=3D2><BR><BR>Mallikarjun,<BR><BR>[NB:=20
  Working group chair hat is **off**.]<BR><BR>&gt; "I assume this is =
essentially=20
  what you are proposing that we <BR>&gt; consider (fast multi-task =
abort with=20
  outstanding TTTs always, <BR>&gt; even without the key=20
  negotiation)."<BR><BR>Not exactly - comments interspersed below, but =
what I'm=20
  proposing<BR>is that in the absence of negotiation of the new key, the =

  portion<BR>of "fast multi-task abort" that allows the TMF response to=20
  be<BR>returned in the face of outstanding TTTs be allowed *only*=20
  for<BR>transfers from initiators *other* than the one that sent the =
TMF.<BR>I=20
  believe that Bill Studemund raised this concern earlier, but<BR>I =
admit to=20
  missing its significance at the time.<BR><BR>In other words when the =
key is=20
  not negotiated, a TMF that aborts<BR>tasks from multiple initiators =
behaves=20
  differently at the target<BR>with respect to the initiators =
involved:<BR>a)=20
  There can be no change to currently specified behavior with<BR>&nbsp; =
&nbsp;=20
  &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; respect to the sender of the TMF. =
&nbsp;All=20
  TTT transfers have<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
to=20
  complete, and the TMF response cannot be sent until<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;=20
  &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; the transfers are complete, otherwise a=20
  3720-compliant<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
initiator=20
  may see something that it doesn't expect.<BR>b) Transfers from other=20
  initiators may be bit-bucketed early at<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;=20
  &nbsp; &nbsp; the target - this would be new behavior, and new=20
  language<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; would be =
needed=20
  to allow the TMF response to be sent once<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;=20
  &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; these transfers from other initiators are =
redirected=20
  to<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; bit-buckets. =
&nbsp;This=20
  does not affect a 3720-compliant<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;=20
  &nbsp; initiator, as these other initiators do not receive a<BR>&nbsp; =
&nbsp;=20
  &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; response to this TMF.<BR>The only =
change is=20
  the latter, and it has the effect of removing<BR>a cross-initiator =
dependence=20
  for completion of the TMF. &nbsp;The use<BR>case is that there is =
still=20
  cluster software out there using TMFs<BR>to maintain cluster =
membership=20
  instead of persistent reservations,<BR>even though the latter is what =
should=20
  be used.<BR><BR>&gt; Sorry for the delay in getting back. =
&nbsp;Between=20
  vacation and <BR>&gt; other travel, it took me a while. &nbsp;Thanks =
for the=20
  comments.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; You wrote this regarding fast multi-task=20
  abort:<BR>&gt; &gt;This property is<BR>&gt; &gt;useful even if the new =
key is=20
  not negotiated (and hence the<BR>&gt; &gt;AsyncEvent 5 message is not =
used for=20
  fast abort of data transfers)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I assume this is =
essentially=20
  what you are proposing that we <BR>&gt; consider (fast multi-task =
abort with=20
  outstanding TTTs always, <BR>&gt; even without the key=20
  negotiation).<BR><BR>Not exactly, see above.<BR><BR>&gt; The reason we =
decided=20
  a new key is needed here was for two reasons:<BR>&gt; 1. Whenever TMF =
does a=20
  fast completion, target needs an <BR>&gt; (eventual) deterministic=20
  confirmation that data transfers had <BR>&gt; stopped. &nbsp;The =
confirmation=20
  is Nop-Out, and the negotiation <BR>&gt; for the new Nop-Out is via =
the=20
  FastMultiTaskAbort key.<BR>&gt; 2. The initiator requirement in the =
"classic"=20
  case (i.e. key <BR>&gt; not negotiated) is that it respond to each TTT =
for=20
  affected <BR>&gt; tasks even while the task is "affected". &nbsp;We =
wanted an=20
  <BR>&gt; opposite behavior, but with a confirmation that the data =
<BR>&gt;=20
  transfers had stopped (so target can recover the buffer <BR>&gt; =
resources).=20
  &nbsp;The key allows this new behavior on initiator's <BR>&gt; part as =

  well.<BR><BR>I agree that the new key is clearly required in order=20
  to<BR>terminate any TTT data transfer from any initiator early<BR>for =
the=20
  above reasons.<BR><BR>The proposal is that the TMF response be allowed =
to be=20
  sent<BR>in the face of outstanding transfers from initiators =
*other*<BR>than=20
  the one that sent the TMF. &nbsp;This does not appear to<BR>require a =
new key=20
  be negotiated with the *other* initiators,<BR>as (in the absence of a =
failure)=20
  they will complete those<BR>transfers normally.<BR><BR>&gt; &gt;This =
is=20
  approximately<BR>&gt; &gt;what is described in the Implementation Note =
at the=20
  end of<BR>&gt; &gt;Section 4.1.3, although that note may have been =
intended=20
  to<BR>&gt; &gt;be iSER-specific - if so, this is a proposal to apply =
it=20
  to<BR>&gt; &gt;iSCSI without the RDMA extensions.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; =
Actually=20
  the note is intended for all iSCSI implementations. &nbsp;<BR>&gt; =
After=20
  seeing your observation, I decided that it needs <BR>&gt; improvement, =
I=20
  propose the following new text:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; "Implementation note: =

  Technically, the TMF servicing is <BR>&gt; complete in Step.e. =
&nbsp;Data=20
  transfers corresponding to <BR>&gt; terminated tasks may however still =
be in=20
  progress even at the <BR>&gt; end of Step.f. &nbsp;TMF Response MUST =
NOT be=20
  sent by the target <BR>&gt; iSCSI layer before the end of Step.e, and =
may be=20
  sent at the <BR>&gt; end of Step.e despite these outstanding Data =
transfers=20
  until <BR>&gt; Step.g.<BR><BR>Nit: "may be sent" --&gt; "MAY be=20
  sent"<BR><BR>&gt; These data transfers, if any, MUST be silently =
<BR>&gt;=20
  discarded by the target iSCSI layer. &nbsp;In the case of <BR>&gt; =
iSCSI/iSER,=20
  these transfers would be into tagged buffers with <BR>&gt; STags not =
owned by=20
  any active tasks.<BR><BR>I suggest adding: "; other implementations =
would=20
  deploy<BR>analogous resources to support this discarding".<BR><BR>&gt; =
Step.g=20
  specifies an <BR>&gt; event to free up the resources. &nbsp;A target =
may, on=20
  an <BR>&gt; implementation-defined internal timeout, also choose to =
drop=20
  <BR>&gt; the connections on which it did not receive the expected =
<BR>&gt;=20
  Nop-Out acknowledgements so as to reclaim the associated <BR>&gt; =
buffer, STag=20
  and TTT resources as appropriate."<BR><BR>Nit: "A target may" --&gt; =
"A target=20
  MAY"<BR><BR>&gt; Now that I read the text after a long time, I spotted =
an=20
  <BR>&gt; unintended double negative in section 4.1.3, target behavior, =

  <BR>&gt; bullet d-ii. &nbsp;The text should read:<BR>&gt; "ii) each =
connection=20
  except the issuing connection of the <BR>&gt; issuing session that has =
at=20
  least one allegiant affected <BR>&gt; task." &nbsp; &nbsp;(i.e. drop =
"non"=20
  from "non-issuing")<BR><BR>Ok.<BR><BR>&gt; The other thing that came =
to my=20
  mind after reading your note <BR>&gt; is that we don't currently have =
a=20
  generic key to capture the <BR>&gt; Response Fence behavior - although =

  response fencing underlies <BR>&gt; both the fast multi-task abort as =
well as=20
  addressing ACA race <BR>&gt; conditions (and perhaps others down the =
road.=20
  e.g. around <BR>&gt; persistent reservations). &nbsp;So, today, the =
Note at=20
  the end of <BR>&gt; section 3.3.3 advises that implementations may =
check the=20
  <BR>&gt; FastMultiTaskAbort key to verify if safe behavior for MCS ACA =

  <BR>&gt; is supported, although ACA has really nothing to do with =
<BR>&gt;=20
  multi-task aborting. &nbsp;I am wondering if we should create a =
<BR>&gt; new=20
  key (say ResponseFence), so the semantics would become:<BR>&gt; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;=20
  &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;=20
  &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;=20
  &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;=20
  <BR>&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;ResponseFence &nbsp; &nbsp;"Yes"=20
  &nbsp;fencing done by target &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;<BR>&gt; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp;=20
  &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;=20
  &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;"No" &nbsp; legacy, no fencing <BR>&gt; (so =

  "clarified" TMF semantics are not possible either)<BR>&gt; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;=20
  &nbsp; &nbsp;<BR>&gt; With ResponseFence=3D &nbsp; &nbsp;"Yes"<BR>&gt; =

  FastMultiTaskAbort &nbsp; &nbsp; <BR>&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; "Yes" =
&nbsp;=20
  &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; fast abort =
&amp;=20
  fencing &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;<BR>&gt; =
&nbsp; &nbsp;=20
  &nbsp; &nbsp;"No" &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;=20
  &nbsp; &nbsp;traditional wait on <BR>&gt; outstanding TTTs (fencing on =
ACA is=20
  still possible)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; With ResponseFence=3D &nbsp; =
&nbsp;"No"<BR>&gt;=20
  FastMultiTaskAbort &nbsp; &nbsp; <BR>&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; "Yes" =
&nbsp;=20
  &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Illegal, =
Response=20
  Fence must be "Yes"<BR>&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;"No" &nbsp; =
&nbsp;=20
  &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;No fencing, =
must wait=20
  on <BR>&gt; outstanding TTTs<BR>&gt; &nbsp; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; The =
downside of=20
  this scheme is that it may be going in the <BR>&gt; opposite direction =
than=20
  you wanted (introduces a second key <BR>&gt; that 3720-compliant=20
  implementations don't know about). &nbsp;We <BR>&gt; could =
alternatively=20
  simply mandate the behavior equivalent to <BR>&gt; ResponseFence =3D =
"Yes"=20
  always and avoid the second key, but <BR>&gt; doing so could make the =
current=20
  3720-compliant <BR>&gt; implementations technically=20
  non-iSCSI-compliant.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Comments?<BR><BR>Given the=20
  inter-dependence of ResponseFence and FastMultiTaskAbort,<BR>a single =
3-valued=20
  key is probably simpler than two boolean keys.<BR>I think having an =
explicit=20
  means of determining whether ACA behaves<BR>correctly on an=20
  multi-connection-session is worth adding.<BR><BR>Thanks,<BR>--David=20
  <BR><BR>&gt; Mallikarjun &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;=20
  &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; =
-----=20
  Original Message ----<BR>&gt; From: "Black_David@emc.com"=20
  &lt;Black_David@emc.com&gt;<BR>&gt; To: ips@ietf.org<BR>&gt; Cc:=20
  Black_David@emc.com<BR>&gt; Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2006 2:00:25 =

  PM<BR>&gt; Subject: [Ips] Implementer's Guide - Task Management =
Issue<BR>&gt;=20
  <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; To make sure we actually have some content to talk =
about=20
  in<BR>&gt; this WG Last Call, I'm going to reraise an issue that =
came<BR>&gt;=20
  up earlier on the mailing list, but (as far as I can recall)<BR>&gt; =
never got=20
  resolved. &nbsp;This is done with my WG chair hat OFF,<BR>&gt; and it =
is a=20
  proposal for further discussion.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Section 4.1.3 =
changes task=20
  management, and is a non-transparent<BR>&gt; change - it requires =
negotiating=20
  a new key so that both sides<BR>&gt; agree that they support the =
change as it=20
  uses a round-trip<BR>&gt; exchange of a new message (AsyncEvent 5) =
between=20
  initiator and<BR>&gt; target to abort in-progress data transfers =
rather than=20
  completing<BR>&gt; them. &nbsp;Absent this message, the target expects =
the=20
  initiator(s)<BR>&gt; to complete all in-progress transfers, and is =
entitled to=20
  be<BR>&gt; unhappy or worse if that doesn't happen.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; =
For task=20
  management functions that affect tasks from more than<BR>&gt; one =
initiator=20
  (CLEAR TASK SET, TARGET WARM RESET, TARGET COLD<BR>&gt; RESET) =
&nbsp;Section=20
  4.1.3 also allows the task management function<BR>&gt; (TMF) to =
complete while=20
  the in-progress data transfers are still<BR>&gt; being dealt with, =
which has=20
  the useful effect of avoiding a<BR>&gt; situation in which an =
uncooperative=20
  initiator can stall the<BR>&gt; progress of a TMF sent by another =
initiator.=20
  &nbsp;This property is<BR>&gt; useful even if the new key is not =
negotiated=20
  (and hence the<BR>&gt; AsyncEvent 5 message is not used for fast abort =
of data=20
  transfers)<BR>&gt; although I think the target behavior is subtly =
different=20
  between<BR>&gt; the initiator that sent the TMF and other initiators =
in this=20
  case:<BR>&gt; - For the TMF sender, the target must wait for all=20
  outstanding<BR>&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; transfers to complete before =
completing the=20
  TMF, otherwise<BR>&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; the TMF completion comes back too =
early=20
  for an unmodified<BR>&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; initiator.<BR>&gt; - For the =
other=20
  initiators, the data transfers can be immediately<BR>&gt; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;=20
  redirected to bit buckets so the TMF can be completed without<BR>&gt; =
&nbsp;=20
  &nbsp; waits beyond that for the TMF sender. &nbsp;This is=20
  approximately<BR>&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; what is described in the =
Implementation=20
  Note at the end of<BR>&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; Section 4.1.3, although that =
note may=20
  have been intended to<BR>&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; be iSER-specific - if so, =
this is=20
  a proposal to apply it to<BR>&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; iSCSI without the RDMA =

  extensions.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; High Availability clustering environments =
in=20
  which TMFs are being<BR>&gt; used to determine cluster membership =
(yes,=20
  there's code out there<BR>&gt; that does this, even though everyone =
should be=20
  using PERSISTENT<BR>&gt; RESERVE) are a specific situation where this =
helps,=20
  as having to<BR>&gt; wait for a dead initiator to expire (the TCP=20
  connection(s) have<BR>&gt; to timeout and get torn down) slows down =
cluster=20
  recovery from a<BR>&gt; failure. &nbsp;This change in target behavior =
(to=20
  complete a TMF faster<BR>&gt; if other initiators don't cooperate) =
should be=20
  transparent to<BR>&gt; RFC 3720-compliant initiators, but RFC 3720 has =
to be=20
  modified<BR>&gt; in order to allow it; the Implementer's Guide is a =
vehicle=20
  that<BR>&gt; can make that modification.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; This is =
proposed for=20
  further discussion.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Thanks,<BR>&gt; --David<BR>&gt;=20
  ----------------------------------------------------<BR>&gt; David L. =
Black,=20
  Senior Technologist<BR>&gt; EMC Corporation, 176 South St., Hopkinton, =
MA=20
  &nbsp;01748<BR>&gt; +1 (508) 293-7953 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;=20
  &nbsp; FAX: +1 (508) 293-7786<BR>&gt; black_david@emc.com &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp;=20
  &nbsp;Mobile: +1 (978) 394-7754<BR>&gt;=20
  =
----------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>_____________=
__________________________________<BR>Ips=20
  mailing=20
  =
list<BR>Ips@ietf.org<BR>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ips</FONT>=
</TT><FONT=20
  size=3D3><BR></FONT>
  <P>
  <HR>

  <P><FONT =
size=3D3>_______________________________________________<BR>Ips mailing=20
  =
list<BR>Ips@ietf.org<BR>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ips</FONT>=
=20
  <P>
  <P>
  <HR>

  <P></P>_______________________________________________<BR>Ips mailing=20
  =
list<BR>Ips@ietf.org<BR>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ips<BR></B=
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From ips-bounces@ietf.org Fri Jan 05 21:07:25 2007
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From: "Eddy Quicksall" <Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net>
To: "Eddy Quicksall" <Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net>,
	"Julian Satran" <Julian_Satran@il.ibm.com>
Subject: Re: [Ips] Implementer's Guide - Task Management Issue
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  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Eddy Quicksall=20
  To: Julian Satran=20
  Cc: ips@ietf.org ; Black_David@emc.com=20
  Sent: Friday, January 05, 2007 8:36 PM
  Subject: Re: [Ips] Implementer's Guide - Task Management Issue


  I'm sorry ... I realize I may have been out of context when I posted =
the question ... I thought you were talking about the fast path.

  Eddy
    ----- Original Message -----=20
    From: Eddy Quicksall=20
    To: Julian Satran=20
    Cc: ips@ietf.org ; Black_David@emc.com=20
    Sent: Friday, January 05, 2007 8:20 PM
    Subject: Re: [Ips] Implementer's Guide - Task Management Issue


    The ITT-TTT are tracked for the life of the task.

    Eddy
      ----- Original Message -----=20
      From: Julian Satran=20
      To: Eddy Quicksall=20
      Cc: ips@ietf.org ; Black_David@emc.com=20
      Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 10:35 AM
      Subject: Re: [Ips] Implementer's Guide - Task Management Issue



      If your target  answers fast and expects data from other =
initiators it may have to track ITT-TTT. This is not on the fast path =
(data path) so I am not quite sure what is difficult.=20

      Julo=20


            "Eddy Quicksall" <Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net>=20
            13/12/06 00:46=20
           To <Black_David@emc.com>, Julian Satran/Haifa/IBM@IBMIL =20
                  cc <ips@ietf.org> =20
                  Subject Re: [Ips] Implementer's Guide - Task =
Management Issue=20

                 =20

          =20



      I want to be sure of something here ... you are not requiring this =
ITT-TTT tracking are you? It would be very difficult for hardware.=20
       =20
      Eddy=20

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.5730.11" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3DQuicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net=20
  href=3D"mailto:Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net">Eddy Quicksall</A> =
</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3DJulian_Satran@il.ibm.com=20
  href=3D"mailto:Julian_Satran@il.ibm.com">Julian Satran</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A title=3Dips@ietf.org=20
  href=3D"mailto:ips@ietf.org">ips@ietf.org</A> ; <A =
title=3DBlack_David@emc.com=20
  href=3D"mailto:Black_David@emc.com">Black_David@emc.com</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, January 05, 2007 =
8:36=20
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Ips] =
Implementer's Guide -=20
  Task Management Issue</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>I'm sorry ... I realize I may have been out of =
context when=20
  I posted the&nbsp;question ... I thought you were talking about the =
fast=20
  path.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Eddy</FONT></DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE=20
  style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
    <DIV=20
    style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
    <A title=3DQuicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net=20
    href=3D"mailto:Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net">Eddy Quicksall</A> =
</DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3DJulian_Satran@il.ibm.com=20
    href=3D"mailto:Julian_Satran@il.ibm.com">Julian Satran</A> </DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A title=3Dips@ietf.org=20
    href=3D"mailto:ips@ietf.org">ips@ietf.org</A> ; <A =
title=3DBlack_David@emc.com=20
    href=3D"mailto:Black_David@emc.com">Black_David@emc.com</A> </DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, January 05, =
2007 8:20=20
    PM</DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Ips] =
Implementer's Guide=20
    - Task Management Issue</DIV>
    <DIV><BR></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT size=3D2>The ITT-TTT are tracked for the life of the=20
    task.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Eddy</FONT></DIV>
    <BLOCKQUOTE=20
    style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
      <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- =
</DIV>
      <DIV=20
      style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
      <A title=3DJulian_Satran@il.ibm.com=20
      href=3D"mailto:Julian_Satran@il.ibm.com">Julian Satran</A> </DIV>
      <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
      title=3DQuicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net=20
      href=3D"mailto:Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net">Eddy Quicksall</A> =
</DIV>
      <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A title=3Dips@ietf.org =

      href=3D"mailto:ips@ietf.org">ips@ietf.org</A> ; <A =
title=3DBlack_David@emc.com=20
      href=3D"mailto:Black_David@emc.com">Black_David@emc.com</A> </DIV>
      <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, December =
13, 2006=20
      10:35 AM</DIV>
      <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Ips] =
Implementer's=20
      Guide - Task Management Issue</DIV>
      <DIV><BR></DIV><BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>If your target =

      &nbsp;answers fast and expects data from other initiators it may =
have to=20
      track ITT-TTT. This is not on the fast path (data path) so I am =
not quite=20
      sure what is difficult.</FONT> <BR><BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif=20
      size=3D2>Julo</FONT> <BR><BR><BR>
      <TABLE width=3D"100%">
        <TBODY>
        <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
          <TD width=3D"40%"><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1><B>"Eddy =
Quicksall"=20
            &lt;<A=20
            =
href=3D"mailto:Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net">Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.n=
et</A>&gt;</B>=20
            </FONT>
            <P><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>13/12/06 00:46</FONT> =
</P>
          <TD width=3D"59%">
            <TABLE width=3D"100%">
              <TBODY>
              <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
                <TD>
                  <DIV align=3Dright><FONT face=3Dsans-serif =
size=3D1>To</FONT></DIV>
                <TD><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>&lt;<A=20
                  =
href=3D"mailto:Black_David@emc.com">Black_David@emc.com</A>&gt;,=20
                  Julian <A=20
                  =
href=3D"mailto:Satran/Haifa/IBM@IBMIL">Satran/Haifa/IBM@IBMIL</A></FONT> =


              <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
                <TD>
                  <DIV align=3Dright><FONT face=3Dsans-serif =
size=3D1>cc</FONT></DIV>
                <TD><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>&lt;<A=20
                  =
href=3D"mailto:ips@ietf.org">ips@ietf.org</A>&gt;</FONT>=20
              <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
                <TD>
                  <DIV align=3Dright><FONT face=3Dsans-serif=20
                  size=3D1>Subject</FONT></DIV>
                <TD><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>Re: [Ips] =
Implementer's Guide=20
                  - Task Management =
Issue</FONT></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR>
            <TABLE>
              <TBODY>
              <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
                <TD>
                =
<TD></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR><BR><BR><=
FONT=20
      size=3D2>I want to be sure of something here ... you are not =
requiring this=20
      ITT-TTT tracking are you? It would be very difficult for =
hardware.</FONT>=20
      <BR><FONT size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>Eddy</FONT>=20
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----- Forwarded by Julian Satran/Haifa/IBM on 06/01/07 09:27 -----

Julian Satran <julian.satran@gmail.com>=20
06/01/07 09:22

To
"Mallikarjun C." <cb=5Fmallikarjun@yahoo.com>
cc
IPS <ips@ietf.org>, Julian Satran/Haifa/IBM@IBMIL
Subject
Re: Fw: [Ips] Response Fence Flag






Mallikarjun & All,

As I pointed out in a private discussion with you I never considered in=20
dept the response-fence (beyond what is needed for TM).
It is a serious issue for any "transaction type" operations to storage -=20
but the last interface that had all the pieces correctly aligned was the=20
360 channel.
SCSI had taken (traditionally) the positions that sequencing and=20
barriers are rarely needed and when needed applications should provide=20
them.
And that is exactly what all of the relevant applications do (all=20
transaction monitors, databases etc.).

The way all the application handle cases when the start of some SCSI=20
command has to follow the end of a previous set of operations is to just=20
wait for the end of the operations before issuing the "dependent=20
commands".

Is this solution optimal? As you probably observed already this solution=20
implies that all the queues in the "stack" (at initiator, transport and=20
target) get empty before the dependent commands can be issued and that=20
is bad for performance.

Can fencing (bad name BTW because it is in widespread use for defect=20
isolation) improve this? Yes (by keeping the pipes full!) provided it is=20
associated with rigorous exception handling and the later is a SCSI=20
issue (exceptions will require emptying the queues). With most=20
applications being distributed I doubt also that fencing for a single=20
I=5FT nexus is interesting and coordinating fencing and exception handling =

over several I=5FTs is a complex exercise.

And as transport alone brings no value to the whole issue - why  should=20
we go through the exercise of defining a solution before SCSI has=20
defined one and we are confident that it is good enough and has value?=20
Again I agree that we a mechanism for TM but a good enough mechanism for=20
TM is already in and it gets now even better even without resorting to a=20
generalized fencing/barrier support.

Regards,
Julo








Mallikarjun C. wrote:
> Trying again after bouncing (>50KB), tail is now clipped....
>
> ----- Forwarded Message ----
> From: Mallikarjun C. <cb=5Fmallikarjun@yahoo.com>
> To: ips@ietf.org
> Sent: Friday, January 5, 2007 2:40:56 PM
> Subject: Re: [Ips] Response Fence Flag
>
> Hi John,
>=20
> As you correctly point out, there are two distinct but related=20
> topics here.
>=20
> (1) proper response ordering across participating connections in a=20
> multi-connection session, for a handful of task/TMF responses
> (2) proper way to terminate and signal tasks when actions on one=20
> session can impact multiple initiators
>=20
> (1) is all about response fence, it is covered separately in section=20
> 3.3 of IG draft.  That's what this email thread started off with.
>=20
> (2) covers cases that IG had called as as "multi-task abort" cases=20
> that typically have a shared task set across sessions, or are the=20
> result of a Logical Unit Reset TMF.  Section 4.1 of IG adresses (2).
>=20
> So how are (1) and (2) related?
>=20
> - Some cases covered under (2) overlap with (1), but some cases in (2)=20
> are for single connection sessions.  E.g. LU Reset on a single=20
> connection session impacting several 3rd party sessions
>=20
> - Some cases under (1) overlap with (2), but some cases in (1) have=20
> nothing to do with other sessions.  E.g. establishment of ACA on a=20
> non-shared task set
>=20
> - Section 4.1 (i.e. text for (2)) uses response fence (i.e. text for=20
> (1)) whenever multi-connection sessions are involved in multi-task=20
> abort situations.
>=20
> I hope that clarifies it.  Feel free to ask if that is not clear.  The=20
> net is that the response fence is the underpinning notion to describe=20
> the correct iSCSI behavior in a few cases and some of those cases are=20
> about task terminations across third-party sessions.
>=20
> Mallikarjun
>=20
>
>
>=20
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: John Hufferd <jhufferd@Brocade.COM>
> To: Mallikarjun C. <cb=5Fmallikarjun@yahoo.com>; ips@ietf.org
> Sent: Friday, January 5, 2007 1:01:06 PM
> Subject: RE: [Ips] Response Fence Flag
>
> Mallikarjun,
>
> I must admit, that I have been a bit confused with the direction of=20
> the conversation here.
>
>=20
>
> Therefore, I went back and reviewed the charts from Dallas .  And as I=20
> remembered, the initial focus was to address the issue of Multiple=20
> Connections per Session (MC/S) (as stated on chart 4 ? ?Non-issue for=20
> single-connection iSCSI sessions?).  So I think I have missed the step=20
> where we have morphed the discussion into one dealing with multiple=20
> sessions.  (I am not sure how that happened, or if I miss-read the=20
> charts from Dallas , or have not followed the discussion adequately.)
>
>=20
>
> If we are attempting to define two different issues, one with MC/S and=20
> one with Multiple Session from different Initiators, I think it would=20
> be useful to break down the conversation into Topic A ? MC/S and Topic=20
> B Multiple Sessions.  It is possible that one solution will addresses=20
> both, but I for one think I am hearing arguments that might be=20
> appropriate for Topic B, while I am thinking about its applicability=20
> to Topic A.
>
>=20
>
> Perhaps, you could address the issue as either being all about MC/S or=20
> explicitly state that it is intended to affect Multiple Sessions also,=20
> and then address the issues and solution for each separately.  For=20
> example, I believe Robert was addressing the issue from a view of=20
> Multiple Sessions and if we only intended to address MC/S then I=20
> expect the response might be somewhat different.
>
>=20
>
> Anyway, if you could clear-up some of this, I think it would be useful=20
> (at least to me).
>
>=20
>
> .
>
> .
>
> .
>
> John L Hufferd
>
> Sr. Executive Director of Technology
>
> Brocade Communications Systems, Inc
>
> jhufferd@brocade.com <mailto:jhufferd@brocade.com>
>
> Office Phone: (408) 333-5244; eFAX: (408) 904-4688
>
> Alt Office Phone: (408) 997-6136; Cell: (408) 627-9606
>
>=20
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* Mallikarjun C. [mailto:cb=5Fmallikarjun@yahoo.com]
> *Sent:* Friday, January 05, 2007 10:08 AM
> *To:* ips@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Ips] Response Fence Flag
>
>=20
>
> Not really.  Current draft text is intentionally written to not have=20
> any dependencies on T10 dynamics.  The point is that iSCSI needs such=20
> a notion for succinctly describing the proper iSCSI protocol actions=20
> in a few places - ACA, TMF, Persistent reserve/Abort to name a few.=20
> We certainly hope it will be approved by T10 and be a part of SAM-4=20
> soon, but that isn't required per se for describing what iSCSI needs=20
> for its correct behavior.
>
>=20
>
> IPS WG has adopted what it needs in the past - staying ahead of T10=20
> review/approval cycle if necessary.  I=5FT nexus loss notification,=20
> iSCSI target/port naming, clearing effects are a few I recall.
>
>=20
>
> Mallikarjun
>
>
>
>=20
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Eddy Quicksall <Quicksall=5FiSCSI@Bellsouth.net>
> To: Robert Snively <rsnively@Brocade.COM>; "Elliott, Robert (Server=20
> Storage)" <Elliott@hp.com>; ips@ietf.org
> Sent: Friday, January 5, 2007 8:58:47 AM
> Subject: Re: [Ips] Response Fence Flag
>
> From an earlier email I think that Response Fence is only a proposal=20
> in T10 (http://www.t10.org:80/doc06.htm=20
> <http://www.t10.org/doc06.htm>). If so shouldn't iSCSI wait a bit=20
> until this has been ratified?
>
>=20
>
> Eddy
>
>
> =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=
=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=
=5F
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=
=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F
> Ips mailing list
> Ips@ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ips
>=20


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<br><font size=3D1 color=3D#800080 face=3D"sans-serif">----- Forwarded by J=
ulian
Satran/Haifa/IBM on 06/01/07 09:27 -----</font>
<br>
<table width=3D100%>
<tr valign=3Dtop>
<td width=3D40%><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif"><b>Julian Satran &lt;jul=
ian.satran@gmail.com&gt;</b>
</font>
<p><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif">06/01/07 09:22</font>
<td width=3D59%>
<table width=3D100%>
<tr valign=3Dtop>
<td>
<div align=3Dright><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif">To</font></div>
<td><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif">&quot;Mallikarjun C.&quot; &lt;cb=5F=
mallikarjun@yahoo.com&gt;</font>
<tr valign=3Dtop>
<td>
<div align=3Dright><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif">cc</font></div>
<td><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif">IPS &lt;ips@ietf.org&gt;, Julian Sat=
ran/Haifa/IBM@IBMIL</font>
<tr valign=3Dtop>
<td>
<div align=3Dright><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif">Subject</font></div>
<td><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif">Re: Fw: [Ips] Response Fence Flag</f=
ont></table>
<br>
<table>
<tr valign=3Dtop>
<td>
<td></table>
<br></table>
<br>
<br>
<br><tt><font size=3D2>Mallikarjun &amp; All,<br>
<br>
As I pointed out in a private discussion with you I never considered in
<br>
dept the response-fence (beyond what is needed for TM).<br>
It is a serious issue for any &quot;transaction type&quot; operations to
storage - <br>
but the last interface that had all the pieces correctly aligned was the
<br>
360 channel.<br>
SCSI had taken (traditionally) the positions that sequencing and <br>
barriers are rarely needed and when needed applications should provide
them.<br>
And that is exactly what all of the relevant applications do (all <br>
transaction monitors, databases etc.).<br>
<br>
The way all the application handle cases when the start of some SCSI <br>
command has to follow the end of a previous set of operations is to just
<br>
wait for the end of the operations before issuing the &quot;dependent comma=
nds&quot;.<br>
<br>
Is this solution optimal? As you probably observed already this solution
<br>
implies that all the queues in the &quot;stack&quot; (at initiator, transpo=
rt
and <br>
target) get empty before the dependent commands can be issued and that
<br>
is bad for performance.<br>
<br>
Can fencing (bad name BTW because it is in widespread use for defect <br>
isolation) improve this? Yes (by keeping the pipes full!) provided it is
<br>
associated with rigorous exception handling and the later is a SCSI <br>
issue (exceptions will require emptying the queues). With most <br>
applications being distributed I doubt also that fencing for a single <br>
I=5FT nexus is interesting and coordinating fencing and exception handling
<br>
over several I=5FTs is a complex exercise.<br>
<br>
And as transport alone brings no value to the whole issue - why &nbsp;should
<br>
we go through the exercise of defining a solution before SCSI has <br>
defined one and we are confident that it is good enough and has value?
<br>
Again I agree that we a mechanism for TM but a good enough mechanism for
<br>
TM is already in and it gets now even better even without resorting to
a <br>
generalized fencing/barrier support.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Julo<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Mallikarjun C. wrote:<br>
&gt; Trying again after bouncing (&gt;50KB), tail is now clipped....<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; ----- Forwarded Message ----<br>
&gt; From: Mallikarjun C. &lt;cb=5Fmallikarjun@yahoo.com&gt;<br>
&gt; To: ips@ietf.org<br>
&gt; Sent: Friday, January 5, 2007 2:40:56 PM<br>
&gt; Subject: Re: [Ips] Response Fence Flag<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Hi John,<br>
&gt; &nbsp;<br>
&gt; As you correctly point out, there are two distinct but related <br>
&gt; topics here.<br>
&gt; &nbsp;<br>
&gt; (1) proper response ordering across participating connections in a
<br>
&gt; multi-connection session, for a handful of task/TMF responses<br>
&gt; (2) proper way to terminate and signal tasks when actions on one <br>
&gt; session can impact multiple initiators<br>
&gt; &nbsp;<br>
&gt; (1) is all about response fence, it is covered separately in section
<br>
&gt; 3.3 of IG draft. &nbsp;That's what this email thread started off with.=
<br>
&gt; &nbsp;<br>
&gt; (2) covers cases that IG had called as as &quot;multi-task abort&quot;
cases <br>
&gt; that typically have a shared task set across sessions, or are the
<br>
&gt; result of a Logical Unit Reset TMF. &nbsp;Section 4.1 of IG adresses
(2).<br>
&gt; &nbsp;<br>
&gt; So how are (1) and (2) related?<br>
&gt; &nbsp;<br>
&gt; - Some cases covered under (2) overlap with (1), but some cases in
(2) <br>
&gt; are for single connection sessions. &nbsp;E.g. LU Reset on a single
<br>
&gt; connection session impacting several 3rd party sessions<br>
&gt; &nbsp;<br>
&gt; - Some cases under (1) overlap with (2), but some cases in (1) have
<br>
&gt; nothing to do with other sessions. &nbsp;E.g. establishment of ACA
on a <br>
&gt; non-shared task set<br>
&gt; &nbsp;<br>
&gt; - Section 4.1 (i.e. text for (2)) uses response fence (i.e. text for
<br>
&gt; (1)) whenever multi-connection sessions are involved in multi-task
<br>
&gt; abort situations.<br>
&gt; &nbsp;<br>
&gt; I hope that clarifies it. &nbsp;Feel free to ask if that is not clear.
&nbsp;The <br>
&gt; net is that the response fence is the underpinning notion to describe
<br>
&gt; the correct iSCSI behavior in a few cases and some of those cases
are <br>
&gt; about task terminations across third-party sessions.<br>
&gt; &nbsp;<br>
&gt; Mallikarjun<br>
&gt; &nbsp;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp;<br>
&gt; ----- Original Message ----<br>
&gt; From: John Hufferd &lt;jhufferd@Brocade.COM&gt;<br>
&gt; To: Mallikarjun C. &lt;cb=5Fmallikarjun@yahoo.com&gt;; ips@ietf.org<br>
&gt; Sent: Friday, January 5, 2007 1:01:06 PM<br>
&gt; Subject: RE: [Ips] Response Fence Flag<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Mallikarjun,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I must admit, that I have been a bit confused with the direction of
<br>
&gt; the conversation here.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Therefore, I went back and reviewed the charts from Dallas . &nbsp;And
as I <br>
&gt; remembered, the initial focus was to address the issue of Multiple
<br>
&gt; Connections per Session (MC/S) (as stated on chart 4 &#8211; &#8220;No=
n-issue
for <br>
&gt; single-connection iSCSI sessions&#8221;). &nbsp;So I think I have miss=
ed
the step <br>
&gt; where we have morphed the discussion into one dealing with multiple
<br>
&gt; sessions. &nbsp;(I am not sure how that happened, or if I miss-read
the <br>
&gt; charts from Dallas , or have not followed the discussion adequately.)<=
br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; If we are attempting to define two different issues, one with MC/S
and <br>
&gt; one with Multiple Session from different Initiators, I think it would
<br>
&gt; be useful to break down the conversation into Topic A &#8211; MC/S and
Topic <br>
&gt; B Multiple Sessions. &nbsp;It is possible that one solution will addre=
sses
<br>
&gt; both, but I for one think I am hearing arguments that might be <br>
&gt; appropriate for Topic B, while I am thinking about its applicability
<br>
&gt; to Topic A.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Perhaps, you could address the issue as either being all about MC/S
or <br>
&gt; explicitly state that it is intended to affect Multiple Sessions also,
<br>
&gt; and then address the issues and solution for each separately. &nbsp;For
<br>
&gt; example, I believe Robert was addressing the issue from a view of
<br>
&gt; Multiple Sessions and if we only intended to address MC/S then I <br>
&gt; expect the response might be somewhat different.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Anyway, if you could clear-up some of this, I think it would be useful
<br>
&gt; (at least to me).<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; .<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; .<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; .<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; John L Hufferd<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Sr. Executive Director of Technology<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Brocade Communications Systems, Inc<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; jhufferd@brocade.com &lt;mailto:jhufferd@brocade.com&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Office Phone: (408) 333-5244; eFAX: (408) 904-4688<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Alt Office Phone: (408) 997-6136; Cell: (408) 627-9606<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; ----------------------------------------------------------------------=
--<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; *From:* Mallikarjun C. [mailto:cb=5Fmallikarjun@yahoo.com]<br>
&gt; *Sent:* Friday, January 05, 2007 10:08 AM<br>
&gt; *To:* ips@ietf.org<br>
&gt; *Subject:* Re: [Ips] Response Fence Flag<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Not really. &nbsp;Current draft text is intentionally written to not
have <br>
&gt; any dependencies on T10 dynamics. &nbsp;The point is that iSCSI needs
such <br>
&gt; a notion for succinctly describing the proper iSCSI protocol actions
<br>
&gt; in a few places - ACA, TMF, Persistent reserve/Abort to name a few.
&nbsp;<br>
&gt; We certainly hope it will be approved by T10 and be a part of SAM-4
<br>
&gt; soon, but that isn't required per se for describing what iSCSI needs
<br>
&gt; for its correct behavior.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; IPS WG has adopted what it needs in the past - staying ahead of T10
<br>
&gt; review/approval cycle if necessary. &nbsp;I=5FT nexus loss notificatio=
n,
<br>
&gt; iSCSI target/port naming, clearing effects are a few I recall.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Mallikarjun<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; ----- Original Message ----<br>
&gt; From: Eddy Quicksall &lt;Quicksall=5FiSCSI@Bellsouth.net&gt;<br>
&gt; To: Robert Snively &lt;rsnively@Brocade.COM&gt;; &quot;Elliott, Robert
(Server <br>
&gt; Storage)&quot; &lt;Elliott@hp.com&gt;; ips@ietf.org<br>
&gt; Sent: Friday, January 5, 2007 8:58:47 AM<br>
&gt; Subject: Re: [Ips] Response Fence Flag<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; From an earlier email I think that Response Fence is only a proposal
<br>
&gt; in T10 (http://www.t10.org:80/doc06.htm <br>
&gt; &lt;http://www.t10.org/doc06.htm&gt;). If so shouldn't iSCSI wait
a bit <br>
&gt; until this has been ratified?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Eddy<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=
=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=
=5F=5F<br>
&gt; Do You Yahoo!?<br>
&gt; Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around<br>
&gt; http://mail.yahoo.com<br>
&gt; ----------------------------------------------------------------------=
--<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=
=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F<br>
&gt; Ips mailing list<br>
&gt; Ips@ietf.org<br>
&gt; https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ips<br>
&gt; &nbsp; <br>
<br>
</font></tt>
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_______________________________________________
Ips mailing list
Ips@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ips

--===============1785682818==--




From ips-bounces@ietf.org Sat Jan 06 12:27:36 2007
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Message-ID: <000d01c731b7$e3c0ad60$01faa8c0@ivivity.com>
From: "Eddy Quicksall" <Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net>
To: <ips@ietf.org>,
	"Julian Satran" <Julian_Satran@il.ibm.com>
References: <OF7C1D64EB.21A3DDC7-ON8525725B.004F605F-8525725B.004FCD4A@il.ibm.com>
Subject: Re: [Ips] Response Fence Flag
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 12:25:11 -0500
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>>The way all the application handle cases when the start of some SCSI=20
>>command has to follow the end of a previous set of operations is to =
just=20
>>wait for the end of the operations before issuing the "dependent =
commands".

This is not to object to your observation but wouldn't ordered tags were =
used for the above purpose?

Eddy
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Julian Satran=20
  To: ips@ietf.org=20
  Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 9:31 AM
  Subject: Fw: [Ips] Response Fence Flag



  ----- Forwarded by Julian Satran/Haifa/IBM on 06/01/07 09:27 -----=20
        Julian Satran <julian.satran@gmail.com>=20
        06/01/07 09:22=20
       To "Mallikarjun C." <cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com> =20
              cc IPS <ips@ietf.org>, Julian Satran/Haifa/IBM@IBMIL =20
              Subject Re: Fw: [Ips] Response Fence Flag=20

             =20

      =20



  Mallikarjun & All,

  As I pointed out in a private discussion with you I never considered =
in=20
  dept the response-fence (beyond what is needed for TM).
  It is a serious issue for any "transaction type" operations to storage =
-=20
  but the last interface that had all the pieces correctly aligned was =
the=20
  360 channel.
  SCSI had taken (traditionally) the positions that sequencing and=20
  barriers are rarely needed and when needed applications should provide =
them.
  And that is exactly what all of the relevant applications do (all=20
  transaction monitors, databases etc.).

  The way all the application handle cases when the start of some SCSI=20
  command has to follow the end of a previous set of operations is to =
just=20
  wait for the end of the operations before issuing the "dependent =
commands".

  Is this solution optimal? As you probably observed already this =
solution=20
  implies that all the queues in the "stack" (at initiator, transport =
and=20
  target) get empty before the dependent commands can be issued and that =

  is bad for performance.

  Can fencing (bad name BTW because it is in widespread use for defect=20
  isolation) improve this? Yes (by keeping the pipes full!) provided it =
is=20
  associated with rigorous exception handling and the later is a SCSI=20
  issue (exceptions will require emptying the queues). With most=20
  applications being distributed I doubt also that fencing for a single=20
  I_T nexus is interesting and coordinating fencing and exception =
handling=20
  over several I_Ts is a complex exercise.

  And as transport alone brings no value to the whole issue - why  =
should=20
  we go through the exercise of defining a solution before SCSI has=20
  defined one and we are confident that it is good enough and has value? =

  Again I agree that we a mechanism for TM but a good enough mechanism =
for=20
  TM is already in and it gets now even better even without resorting to =
a=20
  generalized fencing/barrier support.

  Regards,
  Julo








  Mallikarjun C. wrote:
  > Trying again after bouncing (>50KB), tail is now clipped....
  >
  > ----- Forwarded Message ----
  > From: Mallikarjun C. <cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com>
  > To: ips@ietf.org
  > Sent: Friday, January 5, 2007 2:40:56 PM
  > Subject: Re: [Ips] Response Fence Flag
  >
  > Hi John,
  > =20
  > As you correctly point out, there are two distinct but related=20
  > topics here.
  > =20
  > (1) proper response ordering across participating connections in a=20
  > multi-connection session, for a handful of task/TMF responses
  > (2) proper way to terminate and signal tasks when actions on one=20
  > session can impact multiple initiators
  > =20
  > (1) is all about response fence, it is covered separately in section =

  > 3.3 of IG draft.  That's what this email thread started off with.
  > =20
  > (2) covers cases that IG had called as as "multi-task abort" cases=20
  > that typically have a shared task set across sessions, or are the=20
  > result of a Logical Unit Reset TMF.  Section 4.1 of IG adresses (2).
  > =20
  > So how are (1) and (2) related?
  > =20
  > - Some cases covered under (2) overlap with (1), but some cases in =
(2)=20
  > are for single connection sessions.  E.g. LU Reset on a single=20
  > connection session impacting several 3rd party sessions
  > =20
  > - Some cases under (1) overlap with (2), but some cases in (1) have=20
  > nothing to do with other sessions.  E.g. establishment of ACA on a=20
  > non-shared task set
  > =20
  > - Section 4.1 (i.e. text for (2)) uses response fence (i.e. text for =

  > (1)) whenever multi-connection sessions are involved in multi-task=20
  > abort situations.
  > =20
  > I hope that clarifies it.  Feel free to ask if that is not clear.  =
The=20
  > net is that the response fence is the underpinning notion to =
describe=20
  > the correct iSCSI behavior in a few cases and some of those cases =
are=20
  > about task terminations across third-party sessions.
  > =20
  > Mallikarjun
  > =20
  >
  >
  > =20
  > ----- Original Message ----
  > From: John Hufferd <jhufferd@Brocade.COM>
  > To: Mallikarjun C. <cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com>; ips@ietf.org
  > Sent: Friday, January 5, 2007 1:01:06 PM
  > Subject: RE: [Ips] Response Fence Flag
  >
  > Mallikarjun,
  >
  > I must admit, that I have been a bit confused with the direction of=20
  > the conversation here.
  >
  > =20
  >
  > Therefore, I went back and reviewed the charts from Dallas .  And as =
I=20
  > remembered, the initial focus was to address the issue of Multiple=20
  > Connections per Session (MC/S) (as stated on chart 4 - "Non-issue =
for=20
  > single-connection iSCSI sessions").  So I think I have missed the =
step=20
  > where we have morphed the discussion into one dealing with multiple=20
  > sessions.  (I am not sure how that happened, or if I miss-read the=20
  > charts from Dallas , or have not followed the discussion =
adequately.)
  >
  > =20
  >
  > If we are attempting to define two different issues, one with MC/S =
and=20
  > one with Multiple Session from different Initiators, I think it =
would=20
  > be useful to break down the conversation into Topic A - MC/S and =
Topic=20
  > B Multiple Sessions.  It is possible that one solution will =
addresses=20
  > both, but I for one think I am hearing arguments that might be=20
  > appropriate for Topic B, while I am thinking about its applicability =

  > to Topic A.
  >
  > =20
  >
  > Perhaps, you could address the issue as either being all about MC/S =
or=20
  > explicitly state that it is intended to affect Multiple Sessions =
also,=20
  > and then address the issues and solution for each separately.  For=20
  > example, I believe Robert was addressing the issue from a view of=20
  > Multiple Sessions and if we only intended to address MC/S then I=20
  > expect the response might be somewhat different.
  >
  > =20
  >
  > Anyway, if you could clear-up some of this, I think it would be =
useful=20
  > (at least to me).
  >
  > =20
  >
  > .
  >
  > .
  >
  > .
  >
  > John L Hufferd
  >
  > Sr. Executive Director of Technology
  >
  > Brocade Communications Systems, Inc
  >
  > jhufferd@brocade.com <mailto:jhufferd@brocade.com>
  >
  > Office Phone: (408) 333-5244; eFAX: (408) 904-4688
  >
  > Alt Office Phone: (408) 997-6136; Cell: (408) 627-9606
  >
  > =20
  >
  > =
------------------------------------------------------------------------
  >
  > *From:* Mallikarjun C. [mailto:cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com]
  > *Sent:* Friday, January 05, 2007 10:08 AM
  > *To:* ips@ietf.org
  > *Subject:* Re: [Ips] Response Fence Flag
  >
  > =20
  >
  > Not really.  Current draft text is intentionally written to not have =

  > any dependencies on T10 dynamics.  The point is that iSCSI needs =
such=20
  > a notion for succinctly describing the proper iSCSI protocol actions =

  > in a few places - ACA, TMF, Persistent reserve/Abort to name a few.  =

  > We certainly hope it will be approved by T10 and be a part of SAM-4=20
  > soon, but that isn't required per se for describing what iSCSI needs =

  > for its correct behavior.
  >
  > =20
  >
  > IPS WG has adopted what it needs in the past - staying ahead of T10=20
  > review/approval cycle if necessary.  I_T nexus loss notification,=20
  > iSCSI target/port naming, clearing effects are a few I recall.
  >
  > =20
  >
  > Mallikarjun
  >
  >
  >
  > =20
  >
  > ----- Original Message ----
  > From: Eddy Quicksall <Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net>
  > To: Robert Snively <rsnively@Brocade.COM>; "Elliott, Robert (Server=20
  > Storage)" <Elliott@hp.com>; ips@ietf.org
  > Sent: Friday, January 5, 2007 8:58:47 AM
  > Subject: Re: [Ips] Response Fence Flag
  >
  > From an earlier email I think that Response Fence is only a proposal =

  > in T10 (http://www.t10.org:80/doc06.htm=20
  > <http://www.t10.org/doc06.htm>). If so shouldn't iSCSI wait a bit=20
  > until this has been ratified?
  >
  > =20
  >
  > Eddy
  >
  >
  > __________________________________________________
  > Do You Yahoo!?
  > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
  > http://mail.yahoo.com
  > =
------------------------------------------------------------------------
  >
  > _______________________________________________
  > Ips mailing list
  > Ips@ietf.org
  > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ips
  >  =20




-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----


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<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Courier New">&gt;&gt;The way all the =
application=20
handle cases when the start of some SCSI <BR>&gt;&gt;command has to =
follow the=20
end of a previous set of operations is to just <BR>&gt;&gt;wait for the =
end of=20
the operations before issuing the "dependent =
commands".</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>This is not to object to your observation but =
wouldn't ordered=20
tags were used for&nbsp;the above&nbsp;purpose?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Eddy</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3DJulian_Satran@il.ibm.com=20
  href=3D"mailto:Julian_Satran@il.ibm.com">Julian Satran</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=3Dips@ietf.org=20
  href=3D"mailto:ips@ietf.org">ips@ietf.org</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, January 06, =
2007 9:31=20
  AM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Fw: [Ips] Response =
Fence=20
  Flag</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV><BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif color=3D#800080 =
size=3D1>----- Forwarded=20
  by Julian Satran/Haifa/IBM on 06/01/07 09:27 -----</FONT> <BR>
  <TABLE width=3D"100%">
    <TBODY>
    <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
      <TD width=3D"40%"><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1><B>Julian =
Satran &lt;<A=20
        =
href=3D"mailto:julian.satran@gmail.com">julian.satran@gmail.com</A>&gt;</=
B>=20
        </FONT>
        <P><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>06/01/07 09:22</FONT> </P>
      <TD width=3D"59%">
        <TABLE width=3D"100%">
          <TBODY>
          <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
            <TD>
              <DIV align=3Dright><FONT face=3Dsans-serif =
size=3D1>To</FONT></DIV>
            <TD><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>"Mallikarjun C." &lt;<A =

              =
href=3D"mailto:cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com">cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com</A>&gt;=
</FONT>=20

          <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
            <TD>
              <DIV align=3Dright><FONT face=3Dsans-serif =
size=3D1>cc</FONT></DIV>
            <TD><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>IPS &lt;<A=20
              href=3D"mailto:ips@ietf.org">ips@ietf.org</A>&gt;, Julian =
<A=20
              =
href=3D"mailto:Satran/Haifa/IBM@IBMIL">Satran/Haifa/IBM@IBMIL</A></FONT> =


          <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
            <TD>
              <DIV align=3Dright><FONT face=3Dsans-serif =
size=3D1>Subject</FONT></DIV>
            <TD><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>Re: Fw: [Ips] Response =
Fence=20
              Flag</FONT></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR>
        <TABLE>
          <TBODY>
          <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
            <TD>
            =
<TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR><BR><BR><TT><FONT=20
  size=3D2>Mallikarjun &amp; All,<BR><BR>As I pointed out in a private =
discussion=20
  with you I never considered in <BR>dept the response-fence (beyond =
what is=20
  needed for TM).<BR>It is a serious issue for any "transaction type" =
operations=20
  to storage - <BR>but the last interface that had all the pieces =
correctly=20
  aligned was the <BR>360 channel.<BR>SCSI had taken (traditionally) the =

  positions that sequencing and <BR>barriers are rarely needed and when =
needed=20
  applications should provide them.<BR>And that is exactly what all of =
the=20
  relevant applications do (all <BR>transaction monitors, databases=20
  etc.).<BR><BR>The way all the application handle cases when the start =
of some=20
  SCSI <BR>command has to follow the end of a previous set of operations =
is to=20
  just <BR>wait for the end of the operations before issuing the =
"dependent=20
  commands".<BR><BR>Is this solution optimal? As you probably observed =
already=20
  this solution <BR>implies that all the queues in the "stack" (at =
initiator,=20
  transport and <BR>target) get empty before the dependent commands can =
be=20
  issued and that <BR>is bad for performance.<BR><BR>Can fencing (bad =
name BTW=20
  because it is in widespread use for defect <BR>isolation) improve =
this? Yes=20
  (by keeping the pipes full!) provided it is <BR>associated with =
rigorous=20
  exception handling and the later is a SCSI <BR>issue (exceptions will =
require=20
  emptying the queues). With most <BR>applications being distributed I =
doubt=20
  also that fencing for a single <BR>I_T nexus is interesting and =
coordinating=20
  fencing and exception handling <BR>over several I_Ts is a complex=20
  exercise.<BR><BR>And as transport alone brings no value to the whole =
issue -=20
  why &nbsp;should <BR>we go through the exercise of defining a solution =
before=20
  SCSI has <BR>defined one and we are confident that it is good enough =
and has=20
  value? <BR>Again I agree that we a mechanism for TM but a good enough=20
  mechanism for <BR>TM is already in and it gets now even better even =
without=20
  resorting to a <BR>generalized fencing/barrier=20
  =
support.<BR><BR>Regards,<BR>Julo<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>Malli=
karjun=20
  C. wrote:<BR>&gt; Trying again after bouncing (&gt;50KB), tail is now=20
  clipped....<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; ----- Forwarded Message ----<BR>&gt; From: =

  Mallikarjun C. &lt;cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com&gt;<BR>&gt; To:=20
  ips@ietf.org<BR>&gt; Sent: Friday, January 5, 2007 2:40:56 PM<BR>&gt; =
Subject:=20
  Re: [Ips] Response Fence Flag<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Hi John,<BR>&gt; =
&nbsp;<BR>&gt;=20
  As you correctly point out, there are two distinct but related =
<BR>&gt; topics=20
  here.<BR>&gt; &nbsp;<BR>&gt; (1) proper response ordering across =
participating=20
  connections in a <BR>&gt; multi-connection session, for a handful of =
task/TMF=20
  responses<BR>&gt; (2) proper way to terminate and signal tasks when =
actions on=20
  one <BR>&gt; session can impact multiple initiators<BR>&gt; =
&nbsp;<BR>&gt; (1)=20
  is all about response fence, it is covered separately in section =
<BR>&gt; 3.3=20
  of IG draft. &nbsp;That's what this email thread started off =
with.<BR>&gt;=20
  &nbsp;<BR>&gt; (2) covers cases that IG had called as as "multi-task =
abort"=20
  cases <BR>&gt; that typically have a shared task set across sessions, =
or are=20
  the <BR>&gt; result of a Logical Unit Reset TMF. &nbsp;Section 4.1 of =
IG=20
  adresses (2).<BR>&gt; &nbsp;<BR>&gt; So how are (1) and (2) =
related?<BR>&gt;=20
  &nbsp;<BR>&gt; - Some cases covered under (2) overlap with (1), but =
some cases=20
  in (2) <BR>&gt; are for single connection sessions. &nbsp;E.g. LU =
Reset on a=20
  single <BR>&gt; connection session impacting several 3rd party=20
  sessions<BR>&gt; &nbsp;<BR>&gt; - Some cases under (1) overlap with =
(2), but=20
  some cases in (1) have <BR>&gt; nothing to do with other sessions. =
&nbsp;E.g.=20
  establishment of ACA on a <BR>&gt; non-shared task set<BR>&gt; =
&nbsp;<BR>&gt;=20
  - Section 4.1 (i.e. text for (2)) uses response fence (i.e. text for =
<BR>&gt;=20
  (1)) whenever multi-connection sessions are involved in multi-task =
<BR>&gt;=20
  abort situations.<BR>&gt; &nbsp;<BR>&gt; I hope that clarifies it. =
&nbsp;Feel=20
  free to ask if that is not clear. &nbsp;The <BR>&gt; net is that the =
response=20
  fence is the underpinning notion to describe <BR>&gt; the correct =
iSCSI=20
  behavior in a few cases and some of those cases are <BR>&gt; about =
task=20
  terminations across third-party sessions.<BR>&gt; &nbsp;<BR>&gt;=20
  Mallikarjun<BR>&gt; &nbsp;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &nbsp;<BR>&gt; =
-----=20
  Original Message ----<BR>&gt; From: John Hufferd=20
  &lt;jhufferd@Brocade.COM&gt;<BR>&gt; To: Mallikarjun C.=20
  &lt;cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com&gt;; ips@ietf.org<BR>&gt; Sent: Friday, =
January=20
  5, 2007 1:01:06 PM<BR>&gt; Subject: RE: [Ips] Response Fence=20
  Flag<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Mallikarjun,<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I must admit, that I =
have=20
  been a bit confused with the direction of <BR>&gt; the conversation=20
  here.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &nbsp;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Therefore, I went back =
and=20
  reviewed the charts from Dallas . &nbsp;And as I <BR>&gt; remembered, =
the=20
  initial focus was to address the issue of Multiple <BR>&gt; =
Connections per=20
  Session (MC/S) (as stated on chart 4 =96 =93Non-issue for <BR>&gt;=20
  single-connection iSCSI sessions=94). &nbsp;So I think I have missed =
the step=20
  <BR>&gt; where we have morphed the discussion into one dealing with =
multiple=20
  <BR>&gt; sessions. &nbsp;(I am not sure how that happened, or if I =
miss-read=20
  the <BR>&gt; charts from Dallas , or have not followed the discussion=20
  adequately.)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &nbsp;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; If we are =
attempting to=20
  define two different issues, one with MC/S and <BR>&gt; one with =
Multiple=20
  Session from different Initiators, I think it would <BR>&gt; be useful =
to=20
  break down the conversation into Topic A =96 MC/S and Topic <BR>&gt; B =
Multiple=20
  Sessions. &nbsp;It is possible that one solution will addresses =
<BR>&gt; both,=20
  but I for one think I am hearing arguments that might be <BR>&gt; =
appropriate=20
  for Topic B, while I am thinking about its applicability <BR>&gt; to =
Topic=20
  A.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &nbsp;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Perhaps, you could address =
the issue=20
  as either being all about MC/S or <BR>&gt; explicitly state that it is =

  intended to affect Multiple Sessions also, <BR>&gt; and then address =
the=20
  issues and solution for each separately. &nbsp;For <BR>&gt; example, I =
believe=20
  Robert was addressing the issue from a view of <BR>&gt; Multiple =
Sessions and=20
  if we only intended to address MC/S then I <BR>&gt; expect the =
response might=20
  be somewhat different.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &nbsp;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Anyway, =
if you=20
  could clear-up some of this, I think it would be useful <BR>&gt; (at =
least to=20
  me).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &nbsp;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; .<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;=20
  .<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; .<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; John L Hufferd<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Sr. =

  Executive Director of Technology<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Brocade =
Communications=20
  Systems, Inc<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; jhufferd@brocade.com=20
  &lt;mailto:jhufferd@brocade.com&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Office Phone: =
(408)=20
  333-5244; eFAX: (408) 904-4688<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Alt Office Phone: (408) =

  997-6136; Cell: (408) 627-9606<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &nbsp;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;=20
  =
------------------------------------------------------------------------<=
BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;=20
  *From:* Mallikarjun C. [mailto:cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com]<BR>&gt; =
*Sent:*=20
  Friday, January 05, 2007 10:08 AM<BR>&gt; *To:* ips@ietf.org<BR>&gt;=20
  *Subject:* Re: [Ips] Response Fence Flag<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;=20
  &nbsp;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Not really. &nbsp;Current draft text is =
intentionally=20
  written to not have <BR>&gt; any dependencies on T10 dynamics. =
&nbsp;The point=20
  is that iSCSI needs such <BR>&gt; a notion for succinctly describing =
the=20
  proper iSCSI protocol actions <BR>&gt; in a few places - ACA, TMF, =
Persistent=20
  reserve/Abort to name a few. &nbsp;<BR>&gt; We certainly hope it will =
be=20
  approved by T10 and be a part of SAM-4 <BR>&gt; soon, but that isn't =
required=20
  per se for describing what iSCSI needs <BR>&gt; for its correct=20
  behavior.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &nbsp;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; IPS WG has adopted =
what it=20
  needs in the past - staying ahead of T10 <BR>&gt; review/approval =
cycle if=20
  necessary. &nbsp;I_T nexus loss notification, <BR>&gt; iSCSI =
target/port=20
  naming, clearing effects are a few I recall.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;=20
  &nbsp;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Mallikarjun<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;=20
  &nbsp;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; ----- Original Message ----<BR>&gt; From: Eddy=20
  Quicksall &lt;Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net&gt;<BR>&gt; To: Robert =
Snively=20
  &lt;rsnively@Brocade.COM&gt;; "Elliott, Robert (Server <BR>&gt; =
Storage)"=20
  &lt;Elliott@hp.com&gt;; ips@ietf.org<BR>&gt; Sent: Friday, January 5, =
2007=20
  8:58:47 AM<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: [Ips] Response Fence =
Flag<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; From=20
  an earlier email I think that Response Fence is only a proposal =
<BR>&gt; in=20
  T10 (http://www.t10.org:80/doc06.htm <BR>&gt;=20
  &lt;http://www.t10.org/doc06.htm&gt;). If so shouldn't iSCSI wait a =
bit=20
  <BR>&gt; until this has been ratified?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; =
&nbsp;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;=20
  Eddy<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;=20
  __________________________________________________<BR>&gt; Do You=20
  Yahoo!?<BR>&gt; Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam =
protection=20
  around<BR>&gt; http://mail.yahoo.com<BR>&gt;=20
  =
------------------------------------------------------------------------<=
BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;=20
  _______________________________________________<BR>&gt; Ips mailing=20
  list<BR>&gt; Ips@ietf.org<BR>&gt;=20
  https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ips<BR>&gt; &nbsp; =
<BR><BR></FONT></TT>
  <P>
  <HR>

  <P></P>_______________________________________________<BR>Ips mailing=20
  =
list<BR>Ips@ietf.org<BR>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ips<BR></B=
LOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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Subject: Re: [Ips] Response Fence Flag
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Very good point. Indeed ordered tag insure similar properties with two=20
caveats:

the ordering in ordered tags is ill-defined. It talks about received=20
before tasks (i.e., from a targets POV). The inititiator however has no=20
way of controlling this ordering. In iSCSI we tried to fix this with CmdSN =

but to act properly you will have to  assume a "serializing" interface=20
from SCSI to iSCSI (which I am not sure iSCSI can enforce.
applications may not be interested in the execution order of every command =

just in the order at barier points. Ordered tags are ill suited for that.


SCSI folks may want to pitch in as I have only second-guessed them and may =

be wrong.

Julo



"Eddy Quicksall" <Quicksall=5FiSCSI@Bellsouth.net>=20
06/01/07 12:25

To
<ips@ietf.org>, Julian Satran/Haifa/IBM@IBMIL
cc

Subject
Re: [Ips] Response Fence Flag






>>The way all the application handle cases when the start of some SCSI=20
>>command has to follow the end of a previous set of operations is to just =


>>wait for the end of the operations before issuing the "dependent=20
commands".
=20
This is not to object to your observation but wouldn't ordered tags were=20
used for the above purpose?
=20
Eddy
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Julian Satran=20
To: ips@ietf.org=20
Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 9:31 AM
Subject: Fw: [Ips] Response Fence Flag


----- Forwarded by Julian Satran/Haifa/IBM on 06/01/07 09:27 -----=20
Julian Satran <julian.satran@gmail.com>=20
06/01/07 09:22=20


To
"Mallikarjun C." <cb=5Fmallikarjun@yahoo.com>=20
cc
IPS <ips@ietf.org>, Julian Satran/Haifa/IBM@IBMIL=20
Subject
Re: Fw: [Ips] Response Fence Flag








Mallikarjun & All,

As I pointed out in a private discussion with you I never considered in=20
dept the response-fence (beyond what is needed for TM).
It is a serious issue for any "transaction type" operations to storage -=20
but the last interface that had all the pieces correctly aligned was the=20
360 channel.
SCSI had taken (traditionally) the positions that sequencing and=20
barriers are rarely needed and when needed applications should provide=20
them.
And that is exactly what all of the relevant applications do (all=20
transaction monitors, databases etc.).

The way all the application handle cases when the start of some SCSI=20
command has to follow the end of a previous set of operations is to just=20
wait for the end of the operations before issuing the "dependent=20
commands".

Is this solution optimal? As you probably observed already this solution=20
implies that all the queues in the "stack" (at initiator, transport and=20
target) get empty before the dependent commands can be issued and that=20
is bad for performance.

Can fencing (bad name BTW because it is in widespread use for defect=20
isolation) improve this? Yes (by keeping the pipes full!) provided it is=20
associated with rigorous exception handling and the later is a SCSI=20
issue (exceptions will require emptying the queues). With most=20
applications being distributed I doubt also that fencing for a single=20
I=5FT nexus is interesting and coordinating fencing and exception handling =

over several I=5FTs is a complex exercise.

And as transport alone brings no value to the whole issue - why  should=20
we go through the exercise of defining a solution before SCSI has=20
defined one and we are confident that it is good enough and has value?=20
Again I agree that we a mechanism for TM but a good enough mechanism for=20
TM is already in and it gets now even better even without resorting to a=20
generalized fencing/barrier support.

Regards,
Julo








Mallikarjun C. wrote:
> Trying again after bouncing (>50KB), tail is now clipped....
>
> ----- Forwarded Message ----
> From: Mallikarjun C. <cb=5Fmallikarjun@yahoo.com>
> To: ips@ietf.org
> Sent: Friday, January 5, 2007 2:40:56 PM
> Subject: Re: [Ips] Response Fence Flag
>
> Hi John,
>=20
> As you correctly point out, there are two distinct but related=20
> topics here.
>=20
> (1) proper response ordering across participating connections in a=20
> multi-connection session, for a handful of task/TMF responses
> (2) proper way to terminate and signal tasks when actions on one=20
> session can impact multiple initiators
>=20
> (1) is all about response fence, it is covered separately in section=20
> 3.3 of IG draft.  That's what this email thread started off with.
>=20
> (2) covers cases that IG had called as as "multi-task abort" cases=20
> that typically have a shared task set across sessions, or are the=20
> result of a Logical Unit Reset TMF.  Section 4.1 of IG adresses (2).
>=20
> So how are (1) and (2) related?
>=20
> - Some cases covered under (2) overlap with (1), but some cases in (2)=20
> are for single connection sessions.  E.g. LU Reset on a single=20
> connection session impacting several 3rd party sessions
>=20
> - Some cases under (1) overlap with (2), but some cases in (1) have=20
> nothing to do with other sessions.  E.g. establishment of ACA on a=20
> non-shared task set
>=20
> - Section 4.1 (i.e. text for (2)) uses response fence (i.e. text for=20
> (1)) whenever multi-connection sessions are involved in multi-task=20
> abort situations.
>=20
> I hope that clarifies it.  Feel free to ask if that is not clear.  The=20
> net is that the response fence is the underpinning notion to describe=20
> the correct iSCSI behavior in a few cases and some of those cases are=20
> about task terminations across third-party sessions.
>=20
> Mallikarjun
>=20
>
>
>=20
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: John Hufferd <jhufferd@Brocade.COM>
> To: Mallikarjun C. <cb=5Fmallikarjun@yahoo.com>; ips@ietf.org
> Sent: Friday, January 5, 2007 1:01:06 PM
> Subject: RE: [Ips] Response Fence Flag
>
> Mallikarjun,
>
> I must admit, that I have been a bit confused with the direction of=20
> the conversation here.
>
>=20
>
> Therefore, I went back and reviewed the charts from Dallas .  And as I=20
> remembered, the initial focus was to address the issue of Multiple=20
> Connections per Session (MC/S) (as stated on chart 4 ? ?Non-issue for=20
> single-connection iSCSI sessions?).  So I think I have missed the step=20
> where we have morphed the discussion into one dealing with multiple=20
> sessions.  (I am not sure how that happened, or if I miss-read the=20
> charts from Dallas , or have not followed the discussion adequately.)
>
>=20
>
> If we are attempting to define two different issues, one with MC/S and=20
> one with Multiple Session from different Initiators, I think it would=20
> be useful to break down the conversation into Topic A ? MC/S and Topic=20
> B Multiple Sessions.  It is possible that one solution will addresses=20
> both, but I for one think I am hearing arguments that might be=20
> appropriate for Topic B, while I am thinking about its applicability=20
> to Topic A.
>
>=20
>
> Perhaps, you could address the issue as either being all about MC/S or=20
> explicitly state that it is intended to affect Multiple Sessions also,=20
> and then address the issues and solution for each separately.  For=20
> example, I believe Robert was addressing the issue from a view of=20
> Multiple Sessions and if we only intended to address MC/S then I=20
> expect the response might be somewhat different.
>
>=20
>
> Anyway, if you could clear-up some of this, I think it would be useful=20
> (at least to me).
>
>=20
>
> .
>
> .
>
> .
>
> John L Hufferd
>
> Sr. Executive Director of Technology
>
> Brocade Communications Systems, Inc
>
> jhufferd@brocade.com <mailto:jhufferd@brocade.com>
>
> Office Phone: (408) 333-5244; eFAX: (408) 904-4688
>
> Alt Office Phone: (408) 997-6136; Cell: (408) 627-9606
>
>=20
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* Mallikarjun C. [mailto:cb=5Fmallikarjun@yahoo.com]
> *Sent:* Friday, January 05, 2007 10:08 AM
> *To:* ips@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Ips] Response Fence Flag
>
>=20
>
> Not really.  Current draft text is intentionally written to not have=20
> any dependencies on T10 dynamics.  The point is that iSCSI needs such=20
> a notion for succinctly describing the proper iSCSI protocol actions=20
> in a few places - ACA, TMF, Persistent reserve/Abort to name a few.=20
> We certainly hope it will be approved by T10 and be a part of SAM-4=20
> soon, but that isn't required per se for describing what iSCSI needs=20
> for its correct behavior.
>
>=20
>
> IPS WG has adopted what it needs in the past - staying ahead of T10=20
> review/approval cycle if necessary.  I=5FT nexus loss notification,=20
> iSCSI target/port naming, clearing effects are a few I recall.
>
>=20
>
> Mallikarjun
>
>
>
>=20
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Eddy Quicksall <Quicksall=5FiSCSI@Bellsouth.net>
> To: Robert Snively <rsnively@Brocade.COM>; "Elliott, Robert (Server=20
> Storage)" <Elliott@hp.com>; ips@ietf.org
> Sent: Friday, January 5, 2007 8:58:47 AM
> Subject: Re: [Ips] Response Fence Flag
>
> From an earlier email I think that Response Fence is only a proposal=20
> in T10 (http://www.t10.org:80/doc06.htm=20
> <http://www.t10.org/doc06.htm>). If so shouldn't iSCSI wait a bit=20
> until this has been ratified?
>
>=20
>
> Eddy
>
>
> =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=
=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=
=5F
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=
=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F
> Ips mailing list
> Ips@ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ips
>=20


=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=
=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F
Ips mailing list
Ips@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ips

--=_alternative 0073233F8525725B_=
Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


<br><font size=3D2 face=3D"sans-serif">Very good point. Indeed ordered tag
insure similar properties with two caveats:</font>
<br>
<ul>
<li><font size=3D2 face=3D"sans-serif">the ordering in ordered tags is ill-=
defined.
It talks about received before tasks (i.e., from a targets POV). The initit=
iator
however has no way of controlling this ordering. In iSCSI we tried to fix
this with CmdSN but to act properly you will have to &nbsp;assume a &quot;s=
erializing&quot;
interface from SCSI to iSCSI (which I am not sure iSCSI can enforce.</font>
<li><font size=3D2 face=3D"sans-serif">applications may not be interested in
the execution order of every command just in the order at barier points.
Ordered tags are ill suited for that.</font></ul>
<br>
<br><font size=3D2 face=3D"sans-serif">SCSI folks may want to pitch in as I
have only second-guessed them and may be wrong.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=3D2 face=3D"sans-serif">Julo</font>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<table width=3D100%>
<tr valign=3Dtop>
<td width=3D40%><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif"><b>&quot;Eddy Quicksall&=
quot;
&lt;Quicksall=5FiSCSI@Bellsouth.net&gt;</b> </font>
<p><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif">06/01/07 12:25</font>
<td width=3D59%>
<table width=3D100%>
<tr valign=3Dtop>
<td>
<div align=3Dright><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif">To</font></div>
<td><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif">&lt;ips@ietf.org&gt;, Julian Satran/=
Haifa/IBM@IBMIL</font>
<tr valign=3Dtop>
<td>
<div align=3Dright><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif">cc</font></div>
<td>
<tr valign=3Dtop>
<td>
<div align=3Dright><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif">Subject</font></div>
<td><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif">Re: [Ips] Response Fence Flag</font>=
</table>
<br>
<table>
<tr valign=3Dtop>
<td>
<td></table>
<br></table>
<br>
<br>
<br><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New">&gt;&gt;The way all the application
handle cases when the start of some SCSI <br>
&gt;&gt;command has to follow the end of a previous set of operations is
to just <br>
&gt;&gt;wait for the end of the operations before issuing the &quot;depende=
nt
commands&quot;.</font>
<br><font size=3D3>&nbsp;</font>
<br><font size=3D2>This is not to object to your observation but wouldn't
ordered tags were used for the above purpose?</font>
<br><font size=3D3>&nbsp;</font>
<br><font size=3D2>Eddy</font>
<br><font size=3D3>----- Original Message ----- </font>
<br><font size=3D3><b>From:</b> </font><a href=3Dmailto:Julian=5FSatran@il.=
ibm.com><font size=3D3 color=3Dblue><u>Julian
Satran</u></font></a><font size=3D3> </font>
<br><font size=3D3><b>To:</b> </font><a href=3Dmailto:ips@ietf.org><font si=
ze=3D3 color=3Dblue><u>ips@ietf.org</u></font></a><font size=3D3>
</font>
<br><font size=3D3><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, January 06, 2007 9:31 AM</font>
<br><font size=3D3><b>Subject:</b> Fw: [Ips] Response Fence Flag</font>
<br>
<br><font size=3D1 color=3D#800080 face=3D"sans-serif"><br>
----- Forwarded by Julian Satran/Haifa/IBM on 06/01/07 09:27 -----</font><f=
ont size=3D3>
</font>
<table width=3D100%>
<tr valign=3Dtop>
<td width=3D44%><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif"><b>Julian Satran &lt;</b=
></font><a href=3Dmailto:julian.satran@gmail.com><font size=3D1 color=3Dblu=
e face=3D"sans-serif"><b><u>julian.satran@gmail.com</u></b></font></a><font=
 size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif"><b>&gt;</b>
</font>
<p><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif">06/01/07 09:22</font><font size=3D3> =
</font>
<td width=3D55%>
<br>
<table width=3D100%>
<tr valign=3Dtop>
<td width=3D13%>
<div align=3Dright><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif">To</font></div>
<td width=3D86%><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif">&quot;Mallikarjun C.&quo=
t;
&lt;</font><a href=3Dmailto:cb=5Fmallikarjun@yahoo.com><font size=3D1 color=
=3Dblue face=3D"sans-serif"><u>cb=5Fmallikarjun@yahoo.com</u></font></a><fo=
nt size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif">&gt;</font><font size=3D3>
</font>
<tr valign=3Dtop>
<td>
<div align=3Dright><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif">cc</font></div>
<td><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif">IPS &lt;</font><a href=3Dmailto:ips@=
ietf.org><font size=3D1 color=3Dblue face=3D"sans-serif"><u>ips@ietf.org</u=
></font></a><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif">&gt;,
Julian </font><a href=3Dmailto:Satran/Haifa/IBM@IBMIL><font size=3D1 color=
=3Dblue face=3D"sans-serif"><u>Satran/Haifa/IBM@IBMIL</u></font></a><font s=
ize=3D3>
</font>
<tr valign=3Dtop>
<td>
<div align=3Dright><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif">Subject</font></div>
<td><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif">Re: Fw: [Ips] Response Fence Flag</f=
ont></table>
<br>
<br>
<table>
<tr valign=3Dtop>
<td>
<td></table>
<br></table>
<br><font size=3D3><br>
<br>
</font><tt><font size=3D2><br>
Mallikarjun &amp; All,<br>
<br>
As I pointed out in a private discussion with you I never considered in
<br>
dept the response-fence (beyond what is needed for TM).<br>
It is a serious issue for any &quot;transaction type&quot; operations to
storage - <br>
but the last interface that had all the pieces correctly aligned was the
<br>
360 channel.<br>
SCSI had taken (traditionally) the positions that sequencing and <br>
barriers are rarely needed and when needed applications should provide
them.<br>
And that is exactly what all of the relevant applications do (all <br>
transaction monitors, databases etc.).<br>
<br>
The way all the application handle cases when the start of some SCSI <br>
command has to follow the end of a previous set of operations is to just
<br>
wait for the end of the operations before issuing the &quot;dependent comma=
nds&quot;.<br>
<br>
Is this solution optimal? As you probably observed already this solution
<br>
implies that all the queues in the &quot;stack&quot; (at initiator, transpo=
rt
and <br>
target) get empty before the dependent commands can be issued and that
<br>
is bad for performance.<br>
<br>
Can fencing (bad name BTW because it is in widespread use for defect <br>
isolation) improve this? Yes (by keeping the pipes full!) provided it is
<br>
associated with rigorous exception handling and the later is a SCSI <br>
issue (exceptions will require emptying the queues). With most <br>
applications being distributed I doubt also that fencing for a single <br>
I=5FT nexus is interesting and coordinating fencing and exception handling
<br>
over several I=5FTs is a complex exercise.<br>
<br>
And as transport alone brings no value to the whole issue - why &nbsp;should
<br>
we go through the exercise of defining a solution before SCSI has <br>
defined one and we are confident that it is good enough and has value?
<br>
Again I agree that we a mechanism for TM but a good enough mechanism for
<br>
TM is already in and it gets now even better even without resorting to
a <br>
generalized fencing/barrier support.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Julo<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Mallikarjun C. wrote:<br>
&gt; Trying again after bouncing (&gt;50KB), tail is now clipped....<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; ----- Forwarded Message ----<br>
&gt; From: Mallikarjun C. &lt;cb=5Fmallikarjun@yahoo.com&gt;<br>
&gt; To: ips@ietf.org<br>
&gt; Sent: Friday, January 5, 2007 2:40:56 PM<br>
&gt; Subject: Re: [Ips] Response Fence Flag<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Hi John,<br>
&gt; &nbsp;<br>
&gt; As you correctly point out, there are two distinct but related <br>
&gt; topics here.<br>
&gt; &nbsp;<br>
&gt; (1) proper response ordering across participating connections in a
<br>
&gt; multi-connection session, for a handful of task/TMF responses<br>
&gt; (2) proper way to terminate and signal tasks when actions on one <br>
&gt; session can impact multiple initiators<br>
&gt; &nbsp;<br>
&gt; (1) is all about response fence, it is covered separately in section
<br>
&gt; 3.3 of IG draft. &nbsp;That's what this email thread started off with.=
<br>
&gt; &nbsp;<br>
&gt; (2) covers cases that IG had called as as &quot;multi-task abort&quot;
cases <br>
&gt; that typically have a shared task set across sessions, or are the
<br>
&gt; result of a Logical Unit Reset TMF. &nbsp;Section 4.1 of IG adresses
(2).<br>
&gt; &nbsp;<br>
&gt; So how are (1) and (2) related?<br>
&gt; &nbsp;<br>
&gt; - Some cases covered under (2) overlap with (1), but some cases in
(2) <br>
&gt; are for single connection sessions. &nbsp;E.g. LU Reset on a single
<br>
&gt; connection session impacting several 3rd party sessions<br>
&gt; &nbsp;<br>
&gt; - Some cases under (1) overlap with (2), but some cases in (1) have
<br>
&gt; nothing to do with other sessions. &nbsp;E.g. establishment of ACA
on a <br>
&gt; non-shared task set<br>
&gt; &nbsp;<br>
&gt; - Section 4.1 (i.e. text for (2)) uses response fence (i.e. text for
<br>
&gt; (1)) whenever multi-connection sessions are involved in multi-task
<br>
&gt; abort situations.<br>
&gt; &nbsp;<br>
&gt; I hope that clarifies it. &nbsp;Feel free to ask if that is not clear.
&nbsp;The <br>
&gt; net is that the response fence is the underpinning notion to describe
<br>
&gt; the correct iSCSI behavior in a few cases and some of those cases
are <br>
&gt; about task terminations across third-party sessions.<br>
&gt; &nbsp;<br>
&gt; Mallikarjun<br>
&gt; &nbsp;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp;<br>
&gt; ----- Original Message ----<br>
&gt; From: John Hufferd &lt;jhufferd@Brocade.COM&gt;<br>
&gt; To: Mallikarjun C. &lt;cb=5Fmallikarjun@yahoo.com&gt;; ips@ietf.org<br>
&gt; Sent: Friday, January 5, 2007 1:01:06 PM<br>
&gt; Subject: RE: [Ips] Response Fence Flag<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Mallikarjun,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I must admit, that I have been a bit confused with the direction of
<br>
&gt; the conversation here.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Therefore, I went back and reviewed the charts from Dallas . &nbsp;And
as I <br>
&gt; remembered, the initial focus was to address the issue of Multiple
<br>
&gt; Connections per Session (MC/S) (as stated on chart 4 &#8211; &#8220;No=
n-issue
for <br>
&gt; single-connection iSCSI sessions&#8221;). &nbsp;So I think I have miss=
ed
the step <br>
&gt; where we have morphed the discussion into one dealing with multiple
<br>
&gt; sessions. &nbsp;(I am not sure how that happened, or if I miss-read
the <br>
&gt; charts from Dallas , or have not followed the discussion adequately.)<=
br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; If we are attempting to define two different issues, one with MC/S
and <br>
&gt; one with Multiple Session from different Initiators, I think it would
<br>
&gt; be useful to break down the conversation into Topic A &#8211; MC/S and
Topic <br>
&gt; B Multiple Sessions. &nbsp;It is possible that one solution will addre=
sses
<br>
&gt; both, but I for one think I am hearing arguments that might be <br>
&gt; appropriate for Topic B, while I am thinking about its applicability
<br>
&gt; to Topic A.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Perhaps, you could address the issue as either being all about MC/S
or <br>
&gt; explicitly state that it is intended to affect Multiple Sessions also,
<br>
&gt; and then address the issues and solution for each separately. &nbsp;For
<br>
&gt; example, I believe Robert was addressing the issue from a view of
<br>
&gt; Multiple Sessions and if we only intended to address MC/S then I <br>
&gt; expect the response might be somewhat different.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Anyway, if you could clear-up some of this, I think it would be useful
<br>
&gt; (at least to me).<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; .<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; .<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; .<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; John L Hufferd<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Sr. Executive Director of Technology<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Brocade Communications Systems, Inc<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; jhufferd@brocade.com &lt;mailto:jhufferd@brocade.com&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Office Phone: (408) 333-5244; eFAX: (408) 904-4688<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Alt Office Phone: (408) 997-6136; Cell: (408) 627-9606<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; ----------------------------------------------------------------------=
--<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; *From:* Mallikarjun C. [mailto:cb=5Fmallikarjun@yahoo.com]<br>
&gt; *Sent:* Friday, January 05, 2007 10:08 AM<br>
&gt; *To:* ips@ietf.org<br>
&gt; *Subject:* Re: [Ips] Response Fence Flag<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Not really. &nbsp;Current draft text is intentionally written to not
have <br>
&gt; any dependencies on T10 dynamics. &nbsp;The point is that iSCSI needs
such <br>
&gt; a notion for succinctly describing the proper iSCSI protocol actions
<br>
&gt; in a few places - ACA, TMF, Persistent reserve/Abort to name a few.
&nbsp;<br>
&gt; We certainly hope it will be approved by T10 and be a part of SAM-4
<br>
&gt; soon, but that isn't required per se for describing what iSCSI needs
<br>
&gt; for its correct behavior.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; IPS WG has adopted what it needs in the past - staying ahead of T10
<br>
&gt; review/approval cycle if necessary. &nbsp;I=5FT nexus loss notificatio=
n,
<br>
&gt; iSCSI target/port naming, clearing effects are a few I recall.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Mallikarjun<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; ----- Original Message ----<br>
&gt; From: Eddy Quicksall &lt;Quicksall=5FiSCSI@Bellsouth.net&gt;<br>
&gt; To: Robert Snively &lt;rsnively@Brocade.COM&gt;; &quot;Elliott, Robert
(Server <br>
&gt; Storage)&quot; &lt;Elliott@hp.com&gt;; ips@ietf.org<br>
&gt; Sent: Friday, January 5, 2007 8:58:47 AM<br>
&gt; Subject: Re: [Ips] Response Fence Flag<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; From an earlier email I think that Response Fence is only a proposal
<br>
&gt; in T10 (http://www.t10.org:80/doc06.htm <br>
&gt; &lt;http://www.t10.org/doc06.htm&gt;). If so shouldn't iSCSI wait
a bit <br>
&gt; until this has been ratified?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Eddy<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=
=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=
=5F=5F<br>
&gt; Do You Yahoo!?<br>
&gt; Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around<br>
&gt; http://mail.yahoo.com<br>
&gt; ----------------------------------------------------------------------=
--<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=
=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F<br>
&gt; Ips mailing list<br>
&gt; Ips@ietf.org<br>
&gt; https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ips<br>
&gt; &nbsp; <br>
</font></tt>
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From ips-bounces@ietf.org Sat Jan 06 18:02:06 2007
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From: "Mallikarjun C." <cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Fw: [Ips] Response Fence Flag
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Julian,=0A=0AI am surprised that you have not referred to the SCSI task att=
ributes in the command ordering discussion.  In any case, in the interest o=
f staying on the response fence topic, I will not respond to the command or=
dering points you made (debate topics for some other time, :-)).=0A=0AThe w=
hole notion of response fence though is all about ordering responses, where=
 such ordering is needed (only a very small % of responses, which are liste=
d in section 3.3.3 of IG draft as we know them today).  The updated draft, =
which I will forward for publication today, lists one additional case - tha=
t of Persistent Reserve/Abort Tasks.=0A=0AI am not sure of your intended co=
ntext of how SCSI-level rigorous exception handling relates to response fen=
ce.=0A=0AAnd yes, response fence is not for cross-session collaboration, it=
 is in fact limited to a single I_T_L nexus (please refer to section 3.3 of=
 implementer's guide).=0A=0ARegarding why iSCSI should define it, because i=
t is required for succinctly describing iSCSI protocol behavior in multi-ch=
annel I_T nexus situations (iSCSI and SAS, as we know them today).  As ment=
ioned to Eddy yesterday, it (or a concept like it with any other name - thi=
s concept is in section 10.6.2 of RFC 3720 as well even though we didn't ca=
ll it such) is required for iSCSI's proper behavior.=0A=0AThanks.=0A=0AMall=
ikarjun =0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: Julian Satran <julian.=
satran@gmail.com>=0ATo: Mallikarjun C. <cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com>=0ACc: IPS=
 <ips@ietf.org>; Julian_Satran@il.ibm.com=0ASent: Saturday, January 6, 2007=
 6:22:52 AM=0ASubject: Re: Fw: [Ips] Response Fence Flag=0A=0AMallikarjun &=
 All,=0A=0AAs I pointed out in a private discussion with you I never consid=
ered in =0Adept the response-fence (beyond what is needed for TM).=0AIt is =
a serious issue for any "transaction type" operations to storage - =0Abut t=
he last interface that had all the pieces correctly aligned was the =0A360 =
channel.=0ASCSI had taken (traditionally) the positions that sequencing and=
 =0Abarriers are rarely needed and when needed applications should provide =
them.=0AAnd that is exactly what all of the relevant applications do (all =
=0Atransaction monitors, databases etc.).=0A=0AThe way all the application =
handle cases when the start of some SCSI =0Acommand has to follow the end o=
f a previous set of operations is to just =0Await for the end of the operat=
ions before issuing the "dependent commands".=0A=0AIs this solution optimal=
? As you probably observed already this solution =0Aimplies that all the qu=
eues in the "stack" (at initiator, transport and =0Atarget) get empty befor=
e the dependent commands can be issued and that =0Ais bad for performance.=
=0A=0ACan fencing (bad name BTW because it is in widespread use for defect =
=0Aisolation) improve this? Yes (by keeping the pipes full!) provided it is=
 =0Aassociated with rigorous exception handling and the later is a SCSI =0A=
issue (exceptions will require emptying the queues). With most =0Aapplicati=
ons being distributed I doubt also that fencing for a single =0AI_T nexus i=
s interesting and coordinating fencing and exception handling =0Aover sever=
al I_Ts is a complex exercise.=0A=0AAnd as transport alone brings no value =
to the whole issue - why  should =0Awe go through the exercise of defining =
a solution before SCSI has =0Adefined one and we are confident that it is g=
ood enough and has value? =0AAgain I agree that we a mechanism for TM but a=
 good enough mechanism for =0ATM is already in and it gets now even better =
even without resorting to a =0Ageneralized fencing/barrier support.=0A=0ARe=
gards,=0AJulo=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AMallikarjun C. wrote:=0A> Trying ag=
ain after bouncing (>50KB), tail is now clipped....=0A>=0A> ----- Forwarded=
 Message ----=0A> From: Mallikarjun C. <cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com>=0A> To: i=
ps@ietf.org=0A> Sent: Friday, January 5, 2007 2:40:56 PM=0A> Subject: Re: [=
Ips] Response Fence Flag=0A>=0A> Hi John,=0A>  =0A> As you correctly point =
out, there are two distinct but related =0A> topics here.=0A>  =0A> (1) pro=
per response ordering across participating connections in a =0A> multi-conn=
ection session, for a handful of task/TMF responses=0A> (2) proper way to t=
erminate and signal tasks when actions on one =0A> session can impact multi=
ple initiators=0A>  =0A> (1) is all about response fence, it is covered sep=
arately in section =0A> 3.3 of IG draft.  That's what this email thread sta=
rted off with.=0A>  =0A> (2) covers cases that IG had called as as "multi-t=
ask abort" cases =0A> that typically have a shared task set across sessions=
, or are the =0A> result of a Logical Unit Reset TMF.  Section 4.1 of IG ad=
resses (2).=0A>  =0A> So how are (1) and (2) related?=0A>  =0A> - Some case=
s covered under (2) overlap with (1), but some cases in (2) =0A> are for si=
ngle connection sessions.  E.g. LU Reset on a single =0A> connection sessio=
n impacting several 3rd party sessions=0A>  =0A> - Some cases under (1) ove=
rlap with (2), but some cases in (1) have =0A> nothing to do with other ses=
sions.  E.g. establishment of ACA on a =0A> non-shared task set=0A>  =0A> -=
 Section 4.1 (i.e. text for (2)) uses response fence (i.e. text for =0A> (1=
)) whenever multi-connection sessions are involved in multi-task =0A> abort=
 situations.=0A>  =0A> I hope that clarifies it.  Feel free to ask if that =
is not clear.  The =0A> net is that the response fence is the underpinning =
notion to describe =0A> the correct iSCSI behavior in a few cases and some =
of those cases are =0A> about task terminations across third-party sessions=
.=0A>  =0A> Mallikarjun=0A>  =0A>=0A>=0A>  =0A> ----- Original Message ----=
=0A> From: John Hufferd <jhufferd@Brocade.COM>=0A> To: Mallikarjun C. <cb_m=
allikarjun@yahoo.com>; ips@ietf.org=0A> Sent: Friday, January 5, 2007 1:01:=
06 PM=0A> Subject: RE: [Ips] Response Fence Flag=0A>=0A> Mallikarjun,=0A>=
=0A> I must admit, that I have been a bit confused with the direction of =
=0A> the conversation here.=0A>=0A>  =0A>=0A> Therefore, I went back and re=
viewed the charts from Dallas .  And as I =0A> remembered, the initial focu=
s was to address the issue of Multiple =0A> Connections per Session (MC/S) =
(as stated on chart 4 =96 =93Non-issue for =0A> single-connection iSCSI ses=
sions=94).  So I think I have missed the step =0A> where we have morphed th=
e discussion into one dealing with multiple =0A> sessions.  (I am not sure =
how that happened, or if I miss-read the =0A> charts from Dallas , or have =
not followed the discussion adequately.)=0A>=0A>  =0A>=0A> If we are attemp=
ting to define two different issues, one with MC/S and =0A> one with Multip=
le Session from different Initiators, I think it would =0A> be useful to br=
eak down the conversation into Topic A =96 MC/S and Topic =0A> B Multiple S=
essions.  It is possible that one solution will addresses =0A> both, but I =
for one think I am hearing arguments that might be =0A> appropriate for Top=
ic B, while I am thinking about its applicability =0A> to Topic A.=0A>=0A> =
 =0A>=0A> Perhaps, you could address the issue as either being all about MC=
/S or =0A> explicitly state that it is intended to affect Multiple Sessions=
 also, =0A> and then address the issues and solution for each separately.  =
For =0A> example, I believe Robert was addressing the issue from a view of =
=0A> Multiple Sessions and if we only intended to address MC/S then I =0A> =
expect the response might be somewhat different.=0A>=0A>  =0A>=0A> Anyway, =
if you could clear-up some of this, I think it would be useful =0A> (at lea=
st to me).=0A>=0A>  =0A>=0A> .=0A>=0A> .=0A>=0A> .=0A>=0A> John L Hufferd=
=0A>=0A> Sr. Executive Director of Technology=0A>=0A> Brocade Communication=
s Systems, Inc=0A>=0A> jhufferd@brocade.com <mailto:jhufferd@brocade.com>=
=0A>=0A> Office Phone: (408) 333-5244; eFAX: (408) 904-4688=0A>=0A> Alt Off=
ice Phone: (408) 997-6136; Cell: (408) 627-9606=0A>=0A>  =0A>=0A> ---------=
---------------------------------------------------------------=0A>=0A> *Fr=
om:* Mallikarjun C. [mailto:cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com]=0A> *Sent:* Friday, J=
anuary 05, 2007 10:08 AM=0A> *To:* ips@ietf.org=0A> *Subject:* Re: [Ips] Re=
sponse Fence Flag=0A>=0A>  =0A>=0A> Not really.  Current draft text is inte=
ntionally written to not have =0A> any dependencies on T10 dynamics.  The p=
oint is that iSCSI needs such =0A> a notion for succinctly describing the p=
roper iSCSI protocol actions =0A> in a few places - ACA, TMF, Persistent re=
serve/Abort to name a few.  =0A> We certainly hope it will be approved by T=
10 and be a part of SAM-4 =0A> soon, but that isn't required per se for des=
cribing what iSCSI needs =0A> for its correct behavior.=0A>=0A>  =0A>=0A> I=
PS WG has adopted what it needs in the past - staying ahead of T10 =0A> rev=
iew/approval cycle if necessary.  I_T nexus loss notification, =0A> iSCSI t=
arget/port naming, clearing effects are a few I recall.=0A>=0A>  =0A>=0A> M=
allikarjun=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>  =0A>=0A> ----- Original Message ----=0A> From: =
Eddy Quicksall <Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net>=0A> To: Robert Snively <rsni=
vely@Brocade.COM>; "Elliott, Robert (Server =0A> Storage)" <Elliott@hp.com>=
; ips@ietf.org=0A> Sent: Friday, January 5, 2007 8:58:47 AM=0A> Subject: Re=
: [Ips] Response Fence Flag=0A>=0A> From an earlier email I think that Resp=
onse Fence is only a proposal =0A> in T10 (http://www.t10.org:80/doc06.htm =
=0A> <http://www.t10.org/doc06.htm>). If so shouldn't iSCSI wait a bit =0A>=
 until this has been ratified?=0A>=0A>  =0A>=0A> Eddy=0A>=0A>=0A> _________=
_________________________________________=0A> Do You Yahoo!?=0A> Tired of s=
pam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around=0A> http://mail.yahoo.=
com=0A> -------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----=0A>=0A> _______________________________________________=0A> Ips maili=
ng list=0A> Ips@ietf.org=0A> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ips=0A>=
   =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A__________________________________________________=0AD=
o You Yahoo!?=0ATired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection ar=
ound =0Ahttp://mail.yahoo.com 

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From ewindham@africanbigfive.com Sun Jan 07 06:56:36 2007
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To: <ips-archive@lists.ietf.org>
Subject: OEM or Retail
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 11:56:03 -0060
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And piled up at the base of the columnsWhat can we know of whatever picture=
-planeToward . . . that seems to be the whispered questionAnd half-starved =
foxes shake and pawDim, and die tonight?At San Biagio, in the most intense =
roomHe never even dreams, being sheer snow;It is as though I were at a seco=
nd threshold.trainer flips young alligators over on their backs,Across the =
heavens' gray.To mark that square, perhaps: were M&#232;re and P&#232;rethe=
re's a pulpy orange-y smell from juice factories....Traces of those deep cu=
ts lie thickly uponGray the cloud-like oaksScrawny wolves, and you,Before t=
hose virile women!Between the high and the low, in this night.Among us, onl=
y Alberti, then Sangallo,Bronze the sky, with no


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<DIV>And piled up at the base of the columns<br>What can we know of whateve=
r picture-plane<br>Toward . . . that seems to be the whispered question<br>=
And half-starved foxes shake and paw<br>Dim, and die tonight?<br>At San Bia=
gio, in the most intense room<br>He never even dreams, being sheer snow;<br=
>It is as though I were at a second threshold.<br>trainer flips young allig=
ators over on their backs,<br>Across the heavens' gray.<br>To mark that squ=
are, perhaps: were M&#232;re and P&#232;re<br>there's a pulpy orange-y smel=
l from juice factories....<br>Traces of those deep cuts lie thickly upon<br=
>Gray the cloud-like oaks<br>Scrawny wolves, and you,<br>Before those viril=
e women!<br>Between the high and the low, in this night.<br>Among us, only =
Alberti, then Sangallo,<br>Bronze the sky, with no<br></DIV>
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From ips-bounces@ietf.org Sun Jan 07 09:46:58 2007
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In-Reply-To: <20070106225449.19861.qmail@web51907.mail.yahoo.com>
To: "Mallikarjun C." <cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Subject: Re: Fw: [Ips] Response Fence Flag
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From: Julian Satran <Julian_Satran@il.ibm.com>
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Mallikarjun,

I did reffer to the SCSI task atributes and why the ordering attribute is=20
ill conceived as an ordering mechanism. I am repeating here the arguments:

based on receiver time ordering (not controlled by application)  makes=20
them unsuitable for applications=20
they are done either on every command or none while applications=20
(transactions) just need a "barrier" between groups


Reponse ordering servs just this as the reponse with the barrier has to be =

(hold) the last of a group and allows the next group to start.
The ordering of responses is a way for an application to achieve a partial =

ordering in execution.

This is the way I read the draft.


In order to be valuable exceptions have to result in dropping and=20
reissuing all queued commands including the barrier and after.

As for multi I=5FT=5FL nexuses (or even multi I=5FT) for the barrier to be =

used/relevant it has to accomodate multiple units (nexi) as interesting=20
applications hold multiple nexi.
This accomodation is especially difficult in the face on of failures. If=20
this is what scsi had intended it for it looks to me that it is not=20
finished yet (SCSI will need a synchronized barrier accomodating several=20
nexi) and makes whatever we do of questionable value.

I am still OK with how it is written (as I I said before) - my change in=20
mind is only in "if ought to be doing it" (as I doubt its value without=20
additions) or we have to wait for SCSI to finish its work.

For TM we already did what we had to do (without the barrier) and doing=20
the barrier is IMHO premature (although it answers nicely the single nexi=20
issue).

Regards,
Julo



"Mallikarjun C." <cb=5Fmallikarjun@yahoo.com>=20
06/01/07 17:54

To
IPS <ips@ietf.org>
cc

Subject
Re: Fw: [Ips] Response Fence Flag






Julian,

I am surprised that you have not referred to the SCSI task attributes in=20
the command ordering discussion.  In any case, in the interest of staying=20
on the response fence topic, I will not respond to the command ordering=20
points you made (debate topics for some other time, :-)).

The whole notion of response fence though is all about ordering responses, =

where such ordering is needed (only a very small % of responses, which are =

listed in section 3.3.3 of IG draft as we know them today).  The updated=20
draft, which I will forward for publication today, lists one additional=20
case - that of Persistent Reserve/Abort Tasks.

I am not sure of your intended context of how SCSI-level rigorous=20
exception handling relates to response fence.

And yes, response fence is not for cross-session collaboration, it is in=20
fact limited to a single I=5FT=5FL nexus (please refer to section 3.3 of=20
implementer's guide).

Regarding why iSCSI should define it, because it is required for=20
succinctly describing iSCSI protocol behavior in multi-channel I=5FT nexus =

situations (iSCSI and SAS, as we know them today).  As mentioned to Eddy=20
yesterday, it (or a concept like it with any other name - this concept is=20
in section 10.6.2 of RFC 3720 as well even though we didn't call it such)=20
is required for iSCSI's proper behavior.

Thanks.

Mallikarjun=20


----- Original Message ----
From: Julian Satran <julian.satran@gmail.com>
To: Mallikarjun C. <cb=5Fmallikarjun@yahoo.com>
Cc: IPS <ips@ietf.org>; Julian=5FSatran@il.ibm.com
Sent: Saturday, January 6, 2007 6:22:52 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: [Ips] Response Fence Flag

Mallikarjun & All,

As I pointed out in a private discussion with you I never considered in=20
dept the response-fence (beyond what is needed for TM).
It is a serious issue for any "transaction type" operations to storage -=20
but the last interface that had all the pieces correctly aligned was the=20
360 channel.
SCSI had taken (traditionally) the positions that sequencing and=20
barriers are rarely needed and when needed applications should provide=20
them.
And that is exactly what all of the relevant applications do (all=20
transaction monitors, databases etc.).

The way all the application handle cases when the start of some SCSI=20
command has to follow the end of a previous set of operations is to just=20
wait for the end of the operations before issuing the "dependent=20
commands".

Is this solution optimal? As you probably observed already this solution=20
implies that all the queues in the "stack" (at initiator, transport and=20
target) get empty before the dependent commands can be issued and that=20
is bad for performance.

Can fencing (bad name BTW because it is in widespread use for defect=20
isolation) improve this? Yes (by keeping the pipes full!) provided it is=20
associated with rigorous exception handling and the later is a SCSI=20
issue (exceptions will require emptying the queues). With most=20
applications being distributed I doubt also that fencing for a single=20
I=5FT nexus is interesting and coordinating fencing and exception handling =

over several I=5FTs is a complex exercise.

And as transport alone brings no value to the whole issue - why  should=20
we go through the exercise of defining a solution before SCSI has=20
defined one and we are confident that it is good enough and has value?=20
Again I agree that we a mechanism for TM but a good enough mechanism for=20
TM is already in and it gets now even better even without resorting to a=20
generalized fencing/barrier support.

Regards,
Julo








Mallikarjun C. wrote:
> Trying again after bouncing (>50KB), tail is now clipped....
>
> ----- Forwarded Message ----
> From: Mallikarjun C. <cb=5Fmallikarjun@yahoo.com>
> To: ips@ietf.org
> Sent: Friday, January 5, 2007 2:40:56 PM
> Subject: Re: [Ips] Response Fence Flag
>
> Hi John,
>=20
> As you correctly point out, there are two distinct but related=20
> topics here.
>=20
> (1) proper response ordering across participating connections in a=20
> multi-connection session, for a handful of task/TMF responses
> (2) proper way to terminate and signal tasks when actions on one=20
> session can impact multiple initiators
>=20
> (1) is all about response fence, it is covered separately in section=20
> 3.3 of IG draft.  That's what this email thread started off with.
>=20
> (2) covers cases that IG had called as as "multi-task abort" cases=20
> that typically have a shared task set across sessions, or are the=20
> result of a Logical Unit Reset TMF.  Section 4.1 of IG adresses (2).
>=20
> So how are (1) and (2) related?
>=20
> - Some cases covered under (2) overlap with (1), but some cases in (2)=20
> are for single connection sessions.  E.g. LU Reset on a single=20
> connection session impacting several 3rd party sessions
>=20
> - Some cases under (1) overlap with (2), but some cases in (1) have=20
> nothing to do with other sessions.  E.g. establishment of ACA on a=20
> non-shared task set
>=20
> - Section 4.1 (i.e. text for (2)) uses response fence (i.e. text for=20
> (1)) whenever multi-connection sessions are involved in multi-task=20
> abort situations.
>=20
> I hope that clarifies it.  Feel free to ask if that is not clear.  The=20
> net is that the response fence is the underpinning notion to describe=20
> the correct iSCSI behavior in a few cases and some of those cases are=20
> about task terminations across third-party sessions.
>=20
> Mallikarjun
>=20
>
>
>=20
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: John Hufferd <jhufferd@Brocade.COM>
> To: Mallikarjun C. <cb=5Fmallikarjun@yahoo.com>; ips@ietf.org
> Sent: Friday, January 5, 2007 1:01:06 PM
> Subject: RE: [Ips] Response Fence Flag
>
> Mallikarjun,
>
> I must admit, that I have been a bit confused with the direction of=20
> the conversation here.
>
>=20
>
> Therefore, I went back and reviewed the charts from Dallas .  And as I=20
> remembered, the initial focus was to address the issue of Multiple=20
> Connections per Session (MC/S) (as stated on chart 4 ? ?Non-issue for=20
> single-connection iSCSI sessions?).  So I think I have missed the step=20
> where we have morphed the discussion into one dealing with multiple=20
> sessions.  (I am not sure how that happened, or if I miss-read the=20
> charts from Dallas , or have not followed the discussion adequately.)
>
>=20
>
> If we are attempting to define two different issues, one with MC/S and=20
> one with Multiple Session from different Initiators, I think it would=20
> be useful to break down the conversation into Topic A ? MC/S and Topic=20
> B Multiple Sessions.  It is possible that one solution will addresses=20
> both, but I for one think I am hearing arguments that might be=20
> appropriate for Topic B, while I am thinking about its applicability=20
> to Topic A.
>
>=20
>
> Perhaps, you could address the issue as either being all about MC/S or=20
> explicitly state that it is intended to affect Multiple Sessions also,=20
> and then address the issues and solution for each separately.  For=20
> example, I believe Robert was addressing the issue from a view of=20
> Multiple Sessions and if we only intended to address MC/S then I=20
> expect the response might be somewhat different.
>
>=20
>
> Anyway, if you could clear-up some of this, I think it would be useful=20
> (at least to me).
>
>=20
>
> .
>
> .
>
> .
>
> John L Hufferd
>
> Sr. Executive Director of Technology
>
> Brocade Communications Systems, Inc
>
> jhufferd@brocade.com <mailto:jhufferd@brocade.com>
>
> Office Phone: (408) 333-5244; eFAX: (408) 904-4688
>
> Alt Office Phone: (408) 997-6136; Cell: (408) 627-9606
>
>=20
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* Mallikarjun C. [mailto:cb=5Fmallikarjun@yahoo.com]
> *Sent:* Friday, January 05, 2007 10:08 AM
> *To:* ips@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Ips] Response Fence Flag
>
>=20
>
> Not really.  Current draft text is intentionally written to not have=20
> any dependencies on T10 dynamics.  The point is that iSCSI needs such=20
> a notion for succinctly describing the proper iSCSI protocol actions=20
> in a few places - ACA, TMF, Persistent reserve/Abort to name a few.=20
> We certainly hope it will be approved by T10 and be a part of SAM-4=20
> soon, but that isn't required per se for describing what iSCSI needs=20
> for its correct behavior.
>
>=20
>
> IPS WG has adopted what it needs in the past - staying ahead of T10=20
> review/approval cycle if necessary.  I=5FT nexus loss notification,=20
> iSCSI target/port naming, clearing effects are a few I recall.
>
>=20
>
> Mallikarjun
>
>
>
>=20
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Eddy Quicksall <Quicksall=5FiSCSI@Bellsouth.net>
> To: Robert Snively <rsnively@Brocade.COM>; "Elliott, Robert (Server=20
> Storage)" <Elliott@hp.com>; ips@ietf.org
> Sent: Friday, January 5, 2007 8:58:47 AM
> Subject: Re: [Ips] Response Fence Flag
>
> From an earlier email I think that Response Fence is only a proposal=20
> in T10 (http://www.t10.org:80/doc06.htm=20
> <http://www.t10.org/doc06.htm>). If so shouldn't iSCSI wait a bit=20
> until this has been ratified?
>
>=20
>
> Eddy
>
>
> =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=
=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=
=5F
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=
=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F
> Ips mailing list
> Ips@ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ips
>=20





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Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around=20
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<br><font size=3D2 face=3D"sans-serif">Mallikarjun,</font>
<br>
<br><font size=3D2 face=3D"sans-serif">I did reffer to the SCSI task atribu=
tes
and why the ordering attribute is ill conceived as an ordering mechanism.
I am repeating here the arguments:</font>
<br>
<ul>
<li><font size=3D2 face=3D"sans-serif">based on receiver time ordering (not
controlled by application) &nbsp;makes them unsuitable for applications
</font>
<li><font size=3D2 face=3D"sans-serif">they are done either on every command
or none while applications (transactions) just need a &quot;barrier&quot;
between groups</font></ul>
<br>
<br><font size=3D2 face=3D"sans-serif">Reponse ordering servs just this as
the reponse with the barrier has to be (hold) the last of a group and allows
the next group to start.</font>
<br><font size=3D2 face=3D"sans-serif">The ordering of responses is a way f=
or
an application to achieve a partial ordering in execution.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=3D2 face=3D"sans-serif">This is the way I read the draft.</f=
ont>
<br>
<br>
<br><font size=3D2 face=3D"sans-serif">In order to be valuable exceptions h=
ave
to result in dropping and reissuing all queued commands including the barri=
er
and after.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=3D2 face=3D"sans-serif">As for multi I=5FT=5FL nexuses (or e=
ven
multi I=5FT) for the barrier to be used/relevant it has to accomodate multi=
ple
units (nexi) as interesting applications hold multiple nexi.</font>
<br><font size=3D2 face=3D"sans-serif">This accomodation is especially diff=
icult
in the face on of failures. If this is what scsi had intended it for it
looks to me that it is not finished yet (SCSI will need a synchronized
barrier accomodating several nexi) and makes whatever we do of questionable
value.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=3D2 face=3D"sans-serif">I am still OK with how it is written
(as I I said before) - my change in mind is only in &quot;if ought to be
doing it&quot; (as I doubt its value without additions) or we have to wait
for SCSI to finish its work.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=3D2 face=3D"sans-serif">For TM we already did what we had to
do (without the barrier) and doing the barrier is IMHO premature (although
it answers nicely the single nexi issue).</font>
<br>
<br><font size=3D2 face=3D"sans-serif">Regards,</font>
<br><font size=3D2 face=3D"sans-serif">Julo</font>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<table width=3D100%>
<tr valign=3Dtop>
<td width=3D40%><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif"><b>&quot;Mallikarjun C.&=
quot;
&lt;cb=5Fmallikarjun@yahoo.com&gt;</b> </font>
<p><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif">06/01/07 17:54</font>
<td width=3D59%>
<table width=3D100%>
<tr valign=3Dtop>
<td>
<div align=3Dright><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif">To</font></div>
<td><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif">IPS &lt;ips@ietf.org&gt;</font>
<tr valign=3Dtop>
<td>
<div align=3Dright><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif">cc</font></div>
<td>
<tr valign=3Dtop>
<td>
<div align=3Dright><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif">Subject</font></div>
<td><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif">Re: Fw: [Ips] Response Fence Flag</f=
ont></table>
<br>
<table>
<tr valign=3Dtop>
<td>
<td></table>
<br></table>
<br>
<br>
<br><tt><font size=3D2>Julian,<br>
<br>
I am surprised that you have not referred to the SCSI task attributes in
the command ordering discussion. &nbsp;In any case, in the interest of
staying on the response fence topic, I will not respond to the command
ordering points you made (debate topics for some other time, :-)).<br>
<br>
The whole notion of response fence though is all about ordering responses,
where such ordering is needed (only a very small % of responses, which
are listed in section 3.3.3 of IG draft as we know them today). &nbsp;The
updated draft, which I will forward for publication today, lists one additi=
onal
case - that of Persistent Reserve/Abort Tasks.<br>
<br>
I am not sure of your intended context of how SCSI-level rigorous exception
handling relates to response fence.<br>
<br>
And yes, response fence is not for cross-session collaboration, it is in
fact limited to a single I=5FT=5FL nexus (please refer to section 3.3 of im=
plementer's
guide).<br>
<br>
Regarding why iSCSI should define it, because it is required for succinctly
describing iSCSI protocol behavior in multi-channel I=5FT nexus situations
(iSCSI and SAS, as we know them today). &nbsp;As mentioned to Eddy yesterda=
y,
it (or a concept like it with any other name - this concept is in section
10.6.2 of RFC 3720 as well even though we didn't call it such) is required
for iSCSI's proper behavior.<br>
<br>
Thanks.<br>
<br>
Mallikarjun <br>
<br>
<br>
----- Original Message ----<br>
From: Julian Satran &lt;julian.satran@gmail.com&gt;<br>
To: Mallikarjun C. &lt;cb=5Fmallikarjun@yahoo.com&gt;<br>
Cc: IPS &lt;ips@ietf.org&gt;; Julian=5FSatran@il.ibm.com<br>
Sent: Saturday, January 6, 2007 6:22:52 AM<br>
Subject: Re: Fw: [Ips] Response Fence Flag<br>
<br>
Mallikarjun &amp; All,<br>
<br>
As I pointed out in a private discussion with you I never considered in
<br>
dept the response-fence (beyond what is needed for TM).<br>
It is a serious issue for any &quot;transaction type&quot; operations to
storage - <br>
but the last interface that had all the pieces correctly aligned was the
<br>
360 channel.<br>
SCSI had taken (traditionally) the positions that sequencing and <br>
barriers are rarely needed and when needed applications should provide
them.<br>
And that is exactly what all of the relevant applications do (all <br>
transaction monitors, databases etc.).<br>
<br>
The way all the application handle cases when the start of some SCSI <br>
command has to follow the end of a previous set of operations is to just
<br>
wait for the end of the operations before issuing the &quot;dependent comma=
nds&quot;.<br>
<br>
Is this solution optimal? As you probably observed already this solution
<br>
implies that all the queues in the &quot;stack&quot; (at initiator, transpo=
rt
and <br>
target) get empty before the dependent commands can be issued and that
<br>
is bad for performance.<br>
<br>
Can fencing (bad name BTW because it is in widespread use for defect <br>
isolation) improve this? Yes (by keeping the pipes full!) provided it is
<br>
associated with rigorous exception handling and the later is a SCSI <br>
issue (exceptions will require emptying the queues). With most <br>
applications being distributed I doubt also that fencing for a single <br>
I=5FT nexus is interesting and coordinating fencing and exception handling
<br>
over several I=5FTs is a complex exercise.<br>
<br>
And as transport alone brings no value to the whole issue - why &nbsp;should
<br>
we go through the exercise of defining a solution before SCSI has <br>
defined one and we are confident that it is good enough and has value?
<br>
Again I agree that we a mechanism for TM but a good enough mechanism for
<br>
TM is already in and it gets now even better even without resorting to
a <br>
generalized fencing/barrier support.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Julo<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Mallikarjun C. wrote:<br>
&gt; Trying again after bouncing (&gt;50KB), tail is now clipped....<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; ----- Forwarded Message ----<br>
&gt; From: Mallikarjun C. &lt;cb=5Fmallikarjun@yahoo.com&gt;<br>
&gt; To: ips@ietf.org<br>
&gt; Sent: Friday, January 5, 2007 2:40:56 PM<br>
&gt; Subject: Re: [Ips] Response Fence Flag<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Hi John,<br>
&gt; &nbsp;<br>
&gt; As you correctly point out, there are two distinct but related <br>
&gt; topics here.<br>
&gt; &nbsp;<br>
&gt; (1) proper response ordering across participating connections in a
<br>
&gt; multi-connection session, for a handful of task/TMF responses<br>
&gt; (2) proper way to terminate and signal tasks when actions on one <br>
&gt; session can impact multiple initiators<br>
&gt; &nbsp;<br>
&gt; (1) is all about response fence, it is covered separately in section
<br>
&gt; 3.3 of IG draft. &nbsp;That's what this email thread started off with.=
<br>
&gt; &nbsp;<br>
&gt; (2) covers cases that IG had called as as &quot;multi-task abort&quot;
cases <br>
&gt; that typically have a shared task set across sessions, or are the
<br>
&gt; result of a Logical Unit Reset TMF. &nbsp;Section 4.1 of IG adresses
(2).<br>
&gt; &nbsp;<br>
&gt; So how are (1) and (2) related?<br>
&gt; &nbsp;<br>
&gt; - Some cases covered under (2) overlap with (1), but some cases in
(2) <br>
&gt; are for single connection sessions. &nbsp;E.g. LU Reset on a single
<br>
&gt; connection session impacting several 3rd party sessions<br>
&gt; &nbsp;<br>
&gt; - Some cases under (1) overlap with (2), but some cases in (1) have
<br>
&gt; nothing to do with other sessions. &nbsp;E.g. establishment of ACA
on a <br>
&gt; non-shared task set<br>
&gt; &nbsp;<br>
&gt; - Section 4.1 (i.e. text for (2)) uses response fence (i.e. text for
<br>
&gt; (1)) whenever multi-connection sessions are involved in multi-task
<br>
&gt; abort situations.<br>
&gt; &nbsp;<br>
&gt; I hope that clarifies it. &nbsp;Feel free to ask if that is not clear.
&nbsp;The <br>
&gt; net is that the response fence is the underpinning notion to describe
<br>
&gt; the correct iSCSI behavior in a few cases and some of those cases
are <br>
&gt; about task terminations across third-party sessions.<br>
&gt; &nbsp;<br>
&gt; Mallikarjun<br>
&gt; &nbsp;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp;<br>
&gt; ----- Original Message ----<br>
&gt; From: John Hufferd &lt;jhufferd@Brocade.COM&gt;<br>
&gt; To: Mallikarjun C. &lt;cb=5Fmallikarjun@yahoo.com&gt;; ips@ietf.org<br>
&gt; Sent: Friday, January 5, 2007 1:01:06 PM<br>
&gt; Subject: RE: [Ips] Response Fence Flag<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Mallikarjun,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I must admit, that I have been a bit confused with the direction of
<br>
&gt; the conversation here.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Therefore, I went back and reviewed the charts from Dallas . &nbsp;And
as I <br>
&gt; remembered, the initial focus was to address the issue of Multiple
<br>
&gt; Connections per Session (MC/S) (as stated on chart 4 &#8211; &#8220;No=
n-issue
for <br>
&gt; single-connection iSCSI sessions&#8221;). &nbsp;So I think I have miss=
ed
the step <br>
&gt; where we have morphed the discussion into one dealing with multiple
<br>
&gt; sessions. &nbsp;(I am not sure how that happened, or if I miss-read
the <br>
&gt; charts from Dallas , or have not followed the discussion adequately.)<=
br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; If we are attempting to define two different issues, one with MC/S
and <br>
&gt; one with Multiple Session from different Initiators, I think it would
<br>
&gt; be useful to break down the conversation into Topic A &#8211; MC/S and
Topic <br>
&gt; B Multiple Sessions. &nbsp;It is possible that one solution will addre=
sses
<br>
&gt; both, but I for one think I am hearing arguments that might be <br>
&gt; appropriate for Topic B, while I am thinking about its applicability
<br>
&gt; to Topic A.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Perhaps, you could address the issue as either being all about MC/S
or <br>
&gt; explicitly state that it is intended to affect Multiple Sessions also,
<br>
&gt; and then address the issues and solution for each separately. &nbsp;For
<br>
&gt; example, I believe Robert was addressing the issue from a view of
<br>
&gt; Multiple Sessions and if we only intended to address MC/S then I <br>
&gt; expect the response might be somewhat different.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Anyway, if you could clear-up some of this, I think it would be useful
<br>
&gt; (at least to me).<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; .<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; .<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; .<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; John L Hufferd<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Sr. Executive Director of Technology<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Brocade Communications Systems, Inc<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; jhufferd@brocade.com &lt;mailto:jhufferd@brocade.com&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Office Phone: (408) 333-5244; eFAX: (408) 904-4688<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Alt Office Phone: (408) 997-6136; Cell: (408) 627-9606<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; ----------------------------------------------------------------------=
--<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; *From:* Mallikarjun C. [mailto:cb=5Fmallikarjun@yahoo.com]<br>
&gt; *Sent:* Friday, January 05, 2007 10:08 AM<br>
&gt; *To:* ips@ietf.org<br>
&gt; *Subject:* Re: [Ips] Response Fence Flag<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Not really. &nbsp;Current draft text is intentionally written to not
have <br>
&gt; any dependencies on T10 dynamics. &nbsp;The point is that iSCSI needs
such <br>
&gt; a notion for succinctly describing the proper iSCSI protocol actions
<br>
&gt; in a few places - ACA, TMF, Persistent reserve/Abort to name a few.
&nbsp;<br>
&gt; We certainly hope it will be approved by T10 and be a part of SAM-4
<br>
&gt; soon, but that isn't required per se for describing what iSCSI needs
<br>
&gt; for its correct behavior.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; IPS WG has adopted what it needs in the past - staying ahead of T10
<br>
&gt; review/approval cycle if necessary. &nbsp;I=5FT nexus loss notificatio=
n,
<br>
&gt; iSCSI target/port naming, clearing effects are a few I recall.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Mallikarjun<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; ----- Original Message ----<br>
&gt; From: Eddy Quicksall &lt;Quicksall=5FiSCSI@Bellsouth.net&gt;<br>
&gt; To: Robert Snively &lt;rsnively@Brocade.COM&gt;; &quot;Elliott, Robert
(Server <br>
&gt; Storage)&quot; &lt;Elliott@hp.com&gt;; ips@ietf.org<br>
&gt; Sent: Friday, January 5, 2007 8:58:47 AM<br>
&gt; Subject: Re: [Ips] Response Fence Flag<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; From an earlier email I think that Response Fence is only a proposal
<br>
&gt; in T10 (http://www.t10.org:80/doc06.htm <br>
&gt; &lt;http://www.t10.org/doc06.htm&gt;). If so shouldn't iSCSI wait
a bit <br>
&gt; until this has been ratified?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Eddy<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=
=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=
=5F=5F<br>
&gt; Do You Yahoo!?<br>
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From ips-bounces@ietf.org Sun Jan 07 10:40:28 2007
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Message-ID: <001001c73272$123c49f0$01faa8c0@ivivity.com>
From: "Eddy Quicksall" <Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net>
To: "Mallikarjun C." <cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com>,
	"Julian Satran" <Julian_Satran@il.ibm.com>
References: <OF5EB7E88F.AC094A34-ON8525725C.004E7F8A-8525725C.005125E6@il.ibm.com>
Subject: Re: Fw: [Ips] Response Fence Flag
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 10:39:48 -0500
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Maybe this was already mentioned but wouldn't the Response Fence be =
necessary for even commands with ordered tags?

If an ordered command were sent on one connection then an ordered =
command were sent on another connection, the response for the 2nd =
ordered command may get back to the initiator before the response for =
the first ordered command. But that is not what would be expected by the =
initiator. A case for this could also be made regarding one or more =
simples followed by an ordered.

Eddy
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Julian Satran=20
  To: Mallikarjun C.=20
  Cc: IPS=20
  Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 9:46 AM
  Subject: Re: Fw: [Ips] Response Fence Flag



  Mallikarjun,=20

  I did reffer to the SCSI task atributes and why the ordering attribute =
is ill conceived as an ordering mechanism. I am repeating here the =
arguments:=20

    a.. based on receiver time ordering (not controlled by application)  =
makes them unsuitable for applications=20
    b.. they are done either on every command or none while applications =
(transactions) just need a "barrier" between groups


  Reponse ordering servs just this as the reponse with the barrier has =
to be (hold) the last of a group and allows the next group to start.=20
  The ordering of responses is a way for an application to achieve a =
partial ordering in execution.=20

  This is the way I read the draft.=20


  In order to be valuable exceptions have to result in dropping and =
reissuing all queued commands including the barrier and after.=20

  As for multi I_T_L nexuses (or even multi I_T) for the barrier to be =
used/relevant it has to accomodate multiple units (nexi) as interesting =
applications hold multiple nexi.=20
  This accomodation is especially difficult in the face on of failures. =
If this is what scsi had intended it for it looks to me that it is not =
finished yet (SCSI will need a synchronized barrier accomodating several =
nexi) and makes whatever we do of questionable value.=20

  I am still OK with how it is written (as I I said before) - my change =
in mind is only in "if ought to be doing it" (as I doubt its value =
without additions) or we have to wait for SCSI to finish its work.=20

  For TM we already did what we had to do (without the barrier) and =
doing the barrier is IMHO premature (although it answers nicely the =
single nexi issue).=20

  Regards,=20
  Julo=20


        "Mallikarjun C." <cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com>=20
        06/01/07 17:54=20
       To IPS <ips@ietf.org> =20
              cc =20
              Subject Re: Fw: [Ips] Response Fence Flag=20

             =20

      =20



  Julian,

  I am surprised that you have not referred to the SCSI task attributes =
in the command ordering discussion.  In any case, in the interest of =
staying on the response fence topic, I will not respond to the command =
ordering points you made (debate topics for some other time, :-)).

  The whole notion of response fence though is all about ordering =
responses, where such ordering is needed (only a very small % of =
responses, which are listed in section 3.3.3 of IG draft as we know them =
today).  The updated draft, which I will forward for publication today, =
lists one additional case - that of Persistent Reserve/Abort Tasks.

  I am not sure of your intended context of how SCSI-level rigorous =
exception handling relates to response fence.

  And yes, response fence is not for cross-session collaboration, it is =
in fact limited to a single I_T_L nexus (please refer to section 3.3 of =
implementer's guide).

  Regarding why iSCSI should define it, because it is required for =
succinctly describing iSCSI protocol behavior in multi-channel I_T nexus =
situations (iSCSI and SAS, as we know them today).  As mentioned to Eddy =
yesterday, it (or a concept like it with any other name - this concept =
is in section 10.6.2 of RFC 3720 as well even though we didn't call it =
such) is required for iSCSI's proper behavior.

  Thanks.

  Mallikarjun=20


  ----- Original Message ----
  From: Julian Satran <julian.satran@gmail.com>
  To: Mallikarjun C. <cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com>
  Cc: IPS <ips@ietf.org>; Julian_Satran@il.ibm.com
  Sent: Saturday, January 6, 2007 6:22:52 AM
  Subject: Re: Fw: [Ips] Response Fence Flag

  Mallikarjun & All,

  As I pointed out in a private discussion with you I never considered =
in=20
  dept the response-fence (beyond what is needed for TM).
  It is a serious issue for any "transaction type" operations to storage =
-=20
  but the last interface that had all the pieces correctly aligned was =
the=20
  360 channel.
  SCSI had taken (traditionally) the positions that sequencing and=20
  barriers are rarely needed and when needed applications should provide =
them.
  And that is exactly what all of the relevant applications do (all=20
  transaction monitors, databases etc.).

  The way all the application handle cases when the start of some SCSI=20
  command has to follow the end of a previous set of operations is to =
just=20
  wait for the end of the operations before issuing the "dependent =
commands".

  Is this solution optimal? As you probably observed already this =
solution=20
  implies that all the queues in the "stack" (at initiator, transport =
and=20
  target) get empty before the dependent commands can be issued and that =

  is bad for performance.

  Can fencing (bad name BTW because it is in widespread use for defect=20
  isolation) improve this? Yes (by keeping the pipes full!) provided it =
is=20
  associated with rigorous exception handling and the later is a SCSI=20
  issue (exceptions will require emptying the queues). With most=20
  applications being distributed I doubt also that fencing for a single=20
  I_T nexus is interesting and coordinating fencing and exception =
handling=20
  over several I_Ts is a complex exercise.

  And as transport alone brings no value to the whole issue - why  =
should=20
  we go through the exercise of defining a solution before SCSI has=20
  defined one and we are confident that it is good enough and has value? =

  Again I agree that we a mechanism for TM but a good enough mechanism =
for=20
  TM is already in and it gets now even better even without resorting to =
a=20
  generalized fencing/barrier support.

  Regards,
  Julo








  Mallikarjun C. wrote:
  > Trying again after bouncing (>50KB), tail is now clipped....
  >
  > ----- Forwarded Message ----
  > From: Mallikarjun C. <cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com>
  > To: ips@ietf.org
  > Sent: Friday, January 5, 2007 2:40:56 PM
  > Subject: Re: [Ips] Response Fence Flag
  >
  > Hi John,
  > =20
  > As you correctly point out, there are two distinct but related=20
  > topics here.
  > =20
  > (1) proper response ordering across participating connections in a=20
  > multi-connection session, for a handful of task/TMF responses
  > (2) proper way to terminate and signal tasks when actions on one=20
  > session can impact multiple initiators
  > =20
  > (1) is all about response fence, it is covered separately in section =

  > 3.3 of IG draft.  That's what this email thread started off with.
  > =20
  > (2) covers cases that IG had called as as "multi-task abort" cases=20
  > that typically have a shared task set across sessions, or are the=20
  > result of a Logical Unit Reset TMF.  Section 4.1 of IG adresses (2).
  > =20
  > So how are (1) and (2) related?
  > =20
  > - Some cases covered under (2) overlap with (1), but some cases in =
(2)=20
  > are for single connection sessions.  E.g. LU Reset on a single=20
  > connection session impacting several 3rd party sessions
  > =20
  > - Some cases under (1) overlap with (2), but some cases in (1) have=20
  > nothing to do with other sessions.  E.g. establishment of ACA on a=20
  > non-shared task set
  > =20
  > - Section 4.1 (i.e. text for (2)) uses response fence (i.e. text for =

  > (1)) whenever multi-connection sessions are involved in multi-task=20
  > abort situations.
  > =20
  > I hope that clarifies it.  Feel free to ask if that is not clear.  =
The=20
  > net is that the response fence is the underpinning notion to =
describe=20
  > the correct iSCSI behavior in a few cases and some of those cases =
are=20
  > about task terminations across third-party sessions.
  > =20
  > Mallikarjun
  > =20
  >
  >
  > =20
  > ----- Original Message ----
  > From: John Hufferd <jhufferd@Brocade.COM>
  > To: Mallikarjun C. <cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com>; ips@ietf.org
  > Sent: Friday, January 5, 2007 1:01:06 PM
  > Subject: RE: [Ips] Response Fence Flag
  >
  > Mallikarjun,
  >
  > I must admit, that I have been a bit confused with the direction of=20
  > the conversation here.
  >
  > =20
  >
  > Therefore, I went back and reviewed the charts from Dallas .  And as =
I=20
  > remembered, the initial focus was to address the issue of Multiple=20
  > Connections per Session (MC/S) (as stated on chart 4 - "Non-issue =
for=20
  > single-connection iSCSI sessions").  So I think I have missed the =
step=20
  > where we have morphed the discussion into one dealing with multiple=20
  > sessions.  (I am not sure how that happened, or if I miss-read the=20
  > charts from Dallas , or have not followed the discussion =
adequately.)
  >
  > =20
  >
  > If we are attempting to define two different issues, one with MC/S =
and=20
  > one with Multiple Session from different Initiators, I think it =
would=20
  > be useful to break down the conversation into Topic A - MC/S and =
Topic=20
  > B Multiple Sessions.  It is possible that one solution will =
addresses=20
  > both, but I for one think I am hearing arguments that might be=20
  > appropriate for Topic B, while I am thinking about its applicability =

  > to Topic A.
  >
  > =20
  >
  > Perhaps, you could address the issue as either being all about MC/S =
or=20
  > explicitly state that it is intended to affect Multiple Sessions =
also,=20
  > and then address the issues and solution for each separately.  For=20
  > example, I believe Robert was addressing the issue from a view of=20
  > Multiple Sessions and if we only intended to address MC/S then I=20
  > expect the response might be somewhat different.
  >
  > =20
  >
  > Anyway, if you could clear-up some of this, I think it would be =
useful=20
  > (at least to me).
  >
  > =20
  >
  > .
  >
  > .
  >
  > .
  >
  > John L Hufferd
  >
  > Sr. Executive Director of Technology
  >
  > Brocade Communications Systems, Inc
  >
  > jhufferd@brocade.com <mailto:jhufferd@brocade.com>
  >
  > Office Phone: (408) 333-5244; eFAX: (408) 904-4688
  >
  > Alt Office Phone: (408) 997-6136; Cell: (408) 627-9606
  >
  > =20
  >
  > =
------------------------------------------------------------------------
  >
  > *From:* Mallikarjun C. [mailto:cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com]
  > *Sent:* Friday, January 05, 2007 10:08 AM
  > *To:* ips@ietf.org
  > *Subject:* Re: [Ips] Response Fence Flag
  >
  > =20
  >
  > Not really.  Current draft text is intentionally written to not have =

  > any dependencies on T10 dynamics.  The point is that iSCSI needs =
such=20
  > a notion for succinctly describing the proper iSCSI protocol actions =

  > in a few places - ACA, TMF, Persistent reserve/Abort to name a few.  =

  > We certainly hope it will be approved by T10 and be a part of SAM-4=20
  > soon, but that isn't required per se for describing what iSCSI needs =

  > for its correct behavior.
  >
  > =20
  >
  > IPS WG has adopted what it needs in the past - staying ahead of T10=20
  > review/approval cycle if necessary.  I_T nexus loss notification,=20
  > iSCSI target/port naming, clearing effects are a few I recall.
  >
  > =20
  >
  > Mallikarjun
  >
  >
  >
  > =20
  >
  > ----- Original Message ----
  > From: Eddy Quicksall <Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net>
  > To: Robert Snively <rsnively@Brocade.COM>; "Elliott, Robert (Server=20
  > Storage)" <Elliott@hp.com>; ips@ietf.org
  > Sent: Friday, January 5, 2007 8:58:47 AM
  > Subject: Re: [Ips] Response Fence Flag
  >
  > From an earlier email I think that Response Fence is only a proposal =

  > in T10 (http://www.t10.org:80/doc06.htm=20
  > <http://www.t10.org/doc06.htm>). If so shouldn't iSCSI wait a bit=20
  > until this has been ratified?
  >
  > =20
  >
  > Eddy
  >
  >
  > __________________________________________________
  > Do You Yahoo!?
  > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
  > http://mail.yahoo.com
  > =
------------------------------------------------------------------------
  >
  > _______________________________________________
  > Ips mailing list
  > Ips@ietf.org
  > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ips
  >  =20





  __________________________________________________
  Do You Yahoo!?
  Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around=20
  http://mail.yahoo.com=20

  _______________________________________________
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  https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ips




-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
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------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C73248.2754A000
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<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Maybe this was already mentioned but wouldn't the =
Response=20
Fence be necessary for even commands with&nbsp;ordered =
tags?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>If&nbsp;an&nbsp;ordered command were sent on one =
connection=20
then an ordered command were sent on another connection, the response =
for the=20
2nd ordered command&nbsp;may get back to the initiator before the =
response for=20
the first ordered command.&nbsp;But that is not what would be expected =
by the=20
initiator. A case for this could also be made regarding one or more =
simples=20
followed by an ordered.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Eddy</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3DJulian_Satran@il.ibm.com=20
  href=3D"mailto:Julian_Satran@il.ibm.com">Julian Satran</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dcb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com=20
  href=3D"mailto:cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com">Mallikarjun C.</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A title=3Dips@ietf.org=20
  href=3D"mailto:ips@ietf.org">IPS</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, January 07, 2007 =
9:46=20
  AM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Fw: [Ips] Response =
Fence=20
  Flag</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV><BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif =
size=3D2>Mallikarjun,</FONT>=20
  <BR><BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>I did reffer to the SCSI task =
atributes=20
  and why the ordering attribute is ill conceived as an ordering =
mechanism. I am=20
  repeating here the arguments:</FONT> <BR>
  <UL>
    <LI><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>based on receiver time ordering =
(not=20
    controlled by application) &nbsp;makes them unsuitable for =
applications=20
    </FONT>
    <LI><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>they are done either on every =
command or=20
    none while applications (transactions) just need a "barrier" between =

    groups</FONT></LI></UL><BR><BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif =
size=3D2>Reponse ordering=20
  servs just this as the reponse with the barrier has to be (hold) the =
last of a=20
  group and allows the next group to start.</FONT> <BR><FONT =
face=3Dsans-serif=20
  size=3D2>The ordering of responses is a way for an application to =
achieve a=20
  partial ordering in execution.</FONT> <BR><BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif=20
  size=3D2>This is the way I read the draft.</FONT> <BR><BR><BR><FONT=20
  face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>In order to be valuable exceptions have to =
result in=20
  dropping and reissuing all queued commands including the barrier and=20
  after.</FONT> <BR><BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>As for multi =
I_T_L nexuses=20
  (or even multi I_T) for the barrier to be used/relevant it has to =
accomodate=20
  multiple units (nexi) as interesting applications hold multiple =
nexi.</FONT>=20
  <BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>This accomodation is especially =
difficult in=20
  the face on of failures. If this is what scsi had intended it for it =
looks to=20
  me that it is not finished yet (SCSI will need a synchronized barrier=20
  accomodating several nexi) and makes whatever we do of questionable=20
  value.</FONT> <BR><BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>I am still OK =
with how it=20
  is written (as I I said before) - my change in mind is only in "if =
ought to be=20
  doing it" (as I doubt its value without additions) or we have to wait =
for SCSI=20
  to finish its work.</FONT> <BR><BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif =
size=3D2>For TM we=20
  already did what we had to do (without the barrier) and doing the =
barrier is=20
  IMHO premature (although it answers nicely the single nexi =
issue).</FONT>=20
  <BR><BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>Regards,</FONT> <BR><FONT =
face=3Dsans-serif=20
  size=3D2>Julo</FONT> <BR><BR><BR>
  <TABLE width=3D"100%">
    <TBODY>
    <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
      <TD width=3D"40%"><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1><B>"Mallikarjun =
C."=20
        &lt;cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com&gt;</B> </FONT>
        <P><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>06/01/07 17:54</FONT> </P>
      <TD width=3D"59%">
        <TABLE width=3D"100%">
          <TBODY>
          <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
            <TD>
              <DIV align=3Dright><FONT face=3Dsans-serif =
size=3D1>To</FONT></DIV>
            <TD><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>IPS =
&lt;ips@ietf.org&gt;</FONT>=20
          <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
            <TD>
              <DIV align=3Dright><FONT face=3Dsans-serif =
size=3D1>cc</FONT></DIV>
            <TD>
          <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
            <TD>
              <DIV align=3Dright><FONT face=3Dsans-serif =
size=3D1>Subject</FONT></DIV>
            <TD><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>Re: Fw: [Ips] Response =
Fence=20
              Flag</FONT></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR>
        <TABLE>
          <TBODY>
          <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
            <TD>
            =
<TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR><BR><BR><TT><FONT=20
  size=3D2>Julian,<BR><BR>I am surprised that you have not referred to =
the SCSI=20
  task attributes in the command ordering discussion. &nbsp;In any case, =
in the=20
  interest of staying on the response fence topic, I will not respond to =
the=20
  command ordering points you made (debate topics for some other time,=20
  :-)).<BR><BR>The whole notion of response fence though is all about =
ordering=20
  responses, where such ordering is needed (only a very small % of =
responses,=20
  which are listed in section 3.3.3 of IG draft as we know them today).=20
  &nbsp;The updated draft, which I will forward for publication today, =
lists one=20
  additional case - that of Persistent Reserve/Abort Tasks.<BR><BR>I am =
not sure=20
  of your intended context of how SCSI-level rigorous exception handling =
relates=20
  to response fence.<BR><BR>And yes, response fence is not for =
cross-session=20
  collaboration, it is in fact limited to a single I_T_L nexus (please =
refer to=20
  section 3.3 of implementer's guide).<BR><BR>Regarding why iSCSI should =
define=20
  it, because it is required for succinctly describing iSCSI protocol =
behavior=20
  in multi-channel I_T nexus situations (iSCSI and SAS, as we know them =
today).=20
  &nbsp;As mentioned to Eddy yesterday, it (or a concept like it with =
any other=20
  name - this concept is in section 10.6.2 of RFC 3720 as well even =
though we=20
  didn't call it such) is required for iSCSI's proper=20
  behavior.<BR><BR>Thanks.<BR><BR>Mallikarjun <BR><BR><BR>----- Original =
Message=20
  ----<BR>From: Julian Satran &lt;julian.satran@gmail.com&gt;<BR>To: =
Mallikarjun=20
  C. &lt;cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com&gt;<BR>Cc: IPS &lt;ips@ietf.org&gt;;=20
  Julian_Satran@il.ibm.com<BR>Sent: Saturday, January 6, 2007 6:22:52=20
  AM<BR>Subject: Re: Fw: [Ips] Response Fence Flag<BR><BR>Mallikarjun =
&amp;=20
  All,<BR><BR>As I pointed out in a private discussion with you I never=20
  considered in <BR>dept the response-fence (beyond what is needed for=20
  TM).<BR>It is a serious issue for any "transaction type" operations to =
storage=20
  - <BR>but the last interface that had all the pieces correctly aligned =
was the=20
  <BR>360 channel.<BR>SCSI had taken (traditionally) the positions that=20
  sequencing and <BR>barriers are rarely needed and when needed =
applications=20
  should provide them.<BR>And that is exactly what all of the relevant=20
  applications do (all <BR>transaction monitors, databases =
etc.).<BR><BR>The way=20
  all the application handle cases when the start of some SCSI =
<BR>command has=20
  to follow the end of a previous set of operations is to just <BR>wait =
for the=20
  end of the operations before issuing the "dependent =
commands".<BR><BR>Is this=20
  solution optimal? As you probably observed already this solution =
<BR>implies=20
  that all the queues in the "stack" (at initiator, transport and =
<BR>target)=20
  get empty before the dependent commands can be issued and that <BR>is =
bad for=20
  performance.<BR><BR>Can fencing (bad name BTW because it is in =
widespread use=20
  for defect <BR>isolation) improve this? Yes (by keeping the pipes =
full!)=20
  provided it is <BR>associated with rigorous exception handling and the =
later=20
  is a SCSI <BR>issue (exceptions will require emptying the queues). =
With most=20
  <BR>applications being distributed I doubt also that fencing for a =
single=20
  <BR>I_T nexus is interesting and coordinating fencing and exception =
handling=20
  <BR>over several I_Ts is a complex exercise.<BR><BR>And as transport =
alone=20
  brings no value to the whole issue - why &nbsp;should <BR>we go =
through the=20
  exercise of defining a solution before SCSI has <BR>defined one and we =
are=20
  confident that it is good enough and has value? <BR>Again I agree that =
we a=20
  mechanism for TM but a good enough mechanism for <BR>TM is already in =
and it=20
  gets now even better even without resorting to a <BR>generalized=20
  fencing/barrier=20
  =
support.<BR><BR>Regards,<BR>Julo<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>Malli=
karjun=20
  C. wrote:<BR>&gt; Trying again after bouncing (&gt;50KB), tail is now=20
  clipped....<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; ----- Forwarded Message ----<BR>&gt; From: =

  Mallikarjun C. &lt;cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com&gt;<BR>&gt; To:=20
  ips@ietf.org<BR>&gt; Sent: Friday, January 5, 2007 2:40:56 PM<BR>&gt; =
Subject:=20
  Re: [Ips] Response Fence Flag<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Hi John,<BR>&gt; =
&nbsp;<BR>&gt;=20
  As you correctly point out, there are two distinct but related =
<BR>&gt; topics=20
  here.<BR>&gt; &nbsp;<BR>&gt; (1) proper response ordering across =
participating=20
  connections in a <BR>&gt; multi-connection session, for a handful of =
task/TMF=20
  responses<BR>&gt; (2) proper way to terminate and signal tasks when =
actions on=20
  one <BR>&gt; session can impact multiple initiators<BR>&gt; =
&nbsp;<BR>&gt; (1)=20
  is all about response fence, it is covered separately in section =
<BR>&gt; 3.3=20
  of IG draft. &nbsp;That's what this email thread started off =
with.<BR>&gt;=20
  &nbsp;<BR>&gt; (2) covers cases that IG had called as as "multi-task =
abort"=20
  cases <BR>&gt; that typically have a shared task set across sessions, =
or are=20
  the <BR>&gt; result of a Logical Unit Reset TMF. &nbsp;Section 4.1 of =
IG=20
  adresses (2).<BR>&gt; &nbsp;<BR>&gt; So how are (1) and (2) =
related?<BR>&gt;=20
  &nbsp;<BR>&gt; - Some cases covered under (2) overlap with (1), but =
some cases=20
  in (2) <BR>&gt; are for single connection sessions. &nbsp;E.g. LU =
Reset on a=20
  single <BR>&gt; connection session impacting several 3rd party=20
  sessions<BR>&gt; &nbsp;<BR>&gt; - Some cases under (1) overlap with =
(2), but=20
  some cases in (1) have <BR>&gt; nothing to do with other sessions. =
&nbsp;E.g.=20
  establishment of ACA on a <BR>&gt; non-shared task set<BR>&gt; =
&nbsp;<BR>&gt;=20
  - Section 4.1 (i.e. text for (2)) uses response fence (i.e. text for =
<BR>&gt;=20
  (1)) whenever multi-connection sessions are involved in multi-task =
<BR>&gt;=20
  abort situations.<BR>&gt; &nbsp;<BR>&gt; I hope that clarifies it. =
&nbsp;Feel=20
  free to ask if that is not clear. &nbsp;The <BR>&gt; net is that the =
response=20
  fence is the underpinning notion to describe <BR>&gt; the correct =
iSCSI=20
  behavior in a few cases and some of those cases are <BR>&gt; about =
task=20
  terminations across third-party sessions.<BR>&gt; &nbsp;<BR>&gt;=20
  Mallikarjun<BR>&gt; &nbsp;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &nbsp;<BR>&gt; =
-----=20
  Original Message ----<BR>&gt; From: John Hufferd=20
  &lt;jhufferd@Brocade.COM&gt;<BR>&gt; To: Mallikarjun C.=20
  &lt;cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com&gt;; ips@ietf.org<BR>&gt; Sent: Friday, =
January=20
  5, 2007 1:01:06 PM<BR>&gt; Subject: RE: [Ips] Response Fence=20
  Flag<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Mallikarjun,<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I must admit, that I =
have=20
  been a bit confused with the direction of <BR>&gt; the conversation=20
  here.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &nbsp;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Therefore, I went back =
and=20
  reviewed the charts from Dallas . &nbsp;And as I <BR>&gt; remembered, =
the=20
  initial focus was to address the issue of Multiple <BR>&gt; =
Connections per=20
  Session (MC/S) (as stated on chart 4 =96 =93Non-issue for <BR>&gt;=20
  single-connection iSCSI sessions=94). &nbsp;So I think I have missed =
the step=20
  <BR>&gt; where we have morphed the discussion into one dealing with =
multiple=20
  <BR>&gt; sessions. &nbsp;(I am not sure how that happened, or if I =
miss-read=20
  the <BR>&gt; charts from Dallas , or have not followed the discussion=20
  adequately.)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &nbsp;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; If we are =
attempting to=20
  define two different issues, one with MC/S and <BR>&gt; one with =
Multiple=20
  Session from different Initiators, I think it would <BR>&gt; be useful =
to=20
  break down the conversation into Topic A =96 MC/S and Topic <BR>&gt; B =
Multiple=20
  Sessions. &nbsp;It is possible that one solution will addresses =
<BR>&gt; both,=20
  but I for one think I am hearing arguments that might be <BR>&gt; =
appropriate=20
  for Topic B, while I am thinking about its applicability <BR>&gt; to =
Topic=20
  A.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &nbsp;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Perhaps, you could address =
the issue=20
  as either being all about MC/S or <BR>&gt; explicitly state that it is =

  intended to affect Multiple Sessions also, <BR>&gt; and then address =
the=20
  issues and solution for each separately. &nbsp;For <BR>&gt; example, I =
believe=20
  Robert was addressing the issue from a view of <BR>&gt; Multiple =
Sessions and=20
  if we only intended to address MC/S then I <BR>&gt; expect the =
response might=20
  be somewhat different.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &nbsp;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Anyway, =
if you=20
  could clear-up some of this, I think it would be useful <BR>&gt; (at =
least to=20
  me).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &nbsp;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; .<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;=20
  .<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; .<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; John L Hufferd<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Sr. =

  Executive Director of Technology<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Brocade =
Communications=20
  Systems, Inc<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; jhufferd@brocade.com=20
  &lt;mailto:jhufferd@brocade.com&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Office Phone: =
(408)=20
  333-5244; eFAX: (408) 904-4688<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Alt Office Phone: (408) =

  997-6136; Cell: (408) 627-9606<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &nbsp;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;=20
  =
------------------------------------------------------------------------<=
BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;=20
  *From:* Mallikarjun C. [mailto:cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com]<BR>&gt; =
*Sent:*=20
  Friday, January 05, 2007 10:08 AM<BR>&gt; *To:* ips@ietf.org<BR>&gt;=20
  *Subject:* Re: [Ips] Response Fence Flag<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;=20
  &nbsp;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Not really. &nbsp;Current draft text is =
intentionally=20
  written to not have <BR>&gt; any dependencies on T10 dynamics. =
&nbsp;The point=20
  is that iSCSI needs such <BR>&gt; a notion for succinctly describing =
the=20
  proper iSCSI protocol actions <BR>&gt; in a few places - ACA, TMF, =
Persistent=20
  reserve/Abort to name a few. &nbsp;<BR>&gt; We certainly hope it will =
be=20
  approved by T10 and be a part of SAM-4 <BR>&gt; soon, but that isn't =
required=20
  per se for describing what iSCSI needs <BR>&gt; for its correct=20
  behavior.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &nbsp;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; IPS WG has adopted =
what it=20
  needs in the past - staying ahead of T10 <BR>&gt; review/approval =
cycle if=20
  necessary. &nbsp;I_T nexus loss notification, <BR>&gt; iSCSI =
target/port=20
  naming, clearing effects are a few I recall.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;=20
  &nbsp;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Mallikarjun<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;=20
  &nbsp;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; ----- Original Message ----<BR>&gt; From: Eddy=20
  Quicksall &lt;Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net&gt;<BR>&gt; To: Robert =
Snively=20
  &lt;rsnively@Brocade.COM&gt;; "Elliott, Robert (Server <BR>&gt; =
Storage)"=20
  &lt;Elliott@hp.com&gt;; ips@ietf.org<BR>&gt; Sent: Friday, January 5, =
2007=20
  8:58:47 AM<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: [Ips] Response Fence =
Flag<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; From=20
  an earlier email I think that Response Fence is only a proposal =
<BR>&gt; in=20
  T10 (http://www.t10.org:80/doc06.htm <BR>&gt;=20
  &lt;http://www.t10.org/doc06.htm&gt;). If so shouldn't iSCSI wait a =
bit=20
  <BR>&gt; until this has been ratified?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; =
&nbsp;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;=20
  Eddy<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;=20
  __________________________________________________<BR>&gt; Do You=20
  Yahoo!?<BR>&gt; Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam =
protection=20
  around<BR>&gt; http://mail.yahoo.com<BR>&gt;=20
  =
------------------------------------------------------------------------<=
BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;=20
  _______________________________________________<BR>&gt; Ips mailing=20
  list<BR>&gt; Ips@ietf.org<BR>&gt;=20
  https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ips<BR>&gt; &nbsp;=20
  =
<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>_________________________________________________=
_<BR>Do=20
  You Yahoo!?<BR>Tired of spam? &nbsp;Yahoo! Mail has the best spam =
protection=20
  around <BR>http://mail.yahoo.com=20
  <BR><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>Ips mailing =

  =
list<BR>Ips@ietf.org<BR>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ips<BR></F=
ONT></TT><BR>
  <P>
  <HR>

  <P></P>_______________________________________________<BR>Ips mailing=20
  =
list<BR>Ips@ietf.org<BR>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ips<BR></B=
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From ips-bounces@ietf.org Sun Jan 07 11:04:36 2007
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To: "Eddy Quicksall" <Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net>
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Subject: Re: Fw: [Ips] Response Fence Flag
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Odered commands guarantee a complete ordered excution at the target (in=20
the order the commands are received by the target). Unordered responses=20
can be  expected (as the standards are completely mute about them). The=20
trouble is that the appliaction has no control about the order the=20
commands are received at the target.

Julo



"Eddy Quicksall" <Quicksall=5FiSCSI@Bellsouth.net>=20
07/01/07 10:39

To
"Mallikarjun C." <cb=5Fmallikarjun@yahoo.com>, Julian Satran/Haifa/IBM@IBMIL
cc
"IPS" <ips@ietf.org>
Subject
Re: Fw: [Ips] Response Fence Flag






Maybe this was already mentioned but wouldn't the Response Fence be=20
necessary for even commands with ordered tags?
=20
If an ordered command were sent on one connection then an ordered command=20
were sent on another connection, the response for the 2nd ordered command=20
may get back to the initiator before the response for the first ordered=20
command. But that is not what would be expected by the initiator. A case=20
for this could also be made regarding one or more simples followed by an=20
ordered.
=20
Eddy
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Julian Satran=20
To: Mallikarjun C.=20
Cc: IPS=20
Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 9:46 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: [Ips] Response Fence Flag


Mallikarjun,=20

I did reffer to the SCSI task atributes and why the ordering attribute is=20
ill conceived as an ordering mechanism. I am repeating here the arguments: =


based on receiver time ordering (not controlled by application)  makes=20
them unsuitable for applications=20
they are done either on every command or none while applications=20
(transactions) just need a "barrier" between groups


Reponse ordering servs just this as the reponse with the barrier has to be =

(hold) the last of a group and allows the next group to start.=20
The ordering of responses is a way for an application to achieve a partial =

ordering in execution.=20

This is the way I read the draft.=20


In order to be valuable exceptions have to result in dropping and=20
reissuing all queued commands including the barrier and after.=20

As for multi I=5FT=5FL nexuses (or even multi I=5FT) for the barrier to be =

used/relevant it has to accomodate multiple units (nexi) as interesting=20
applications hold multiple nexi.=20
This accomodation is especially difficult in the face on of failures. If=20
this is what scsi had intended it for it looks to me that it is not=20
finished yet (SCSI will need a synchronized barrier accomodating several=20
nexi) and makes whatever we do of questionable value.=20

I am still OK with how it is written (as I I said before) - my change in=20
mind is only in "if ought to be doing it" (as I doubt its value without=20
additions) or we have to wait for SCSI to finish its work.=20

For TM we already did what we had to do (without the barrier) and doing=20
the barrier is IMHO premature (although it answers nicely the single nexi=20
issue).=20

Regards,=20
Julo=20


"Mallikarjun C." <cb=5Fmallikarjun@yahoo.com>=20
06/01/07 17:54=20


To
IPS <ips@ietf.org>=20
cc

Subject
Re: Fw: [Ips] Response Fence Flag








Julian,

I am surprised that you have not referred to the SCSI task attributes in=20
the command ordering discussion.  In any case, in the interest of staying=20
on the response fence topic, I will not respond to the command ordering=20
points you made (debate topics for some other time, :-)).

The whole notion of response fence though is all about ordering responses, =

where such ordering is needed (only a very small % of responses, which are =

listed in section 3.3.3 of IG draft as we know them today).  The updated=20
draft, which I will forward for publication today, lists one additional=20
case - that of Persistent Reserve/Abort Tasks.

I am not sure of your intended context of how SCSI-level rigorous=20
exception handling relates to response fence.

And yes, response fence is not for cross-session collaboration, it is in=20
fact limited to a single I=5FT=5FL nexus (please refer to section 3.3 of=20
implementer's guide).

Regarding why iSCSI should define it, because it is required for=20
succinctly describing iSCSI protocol behavior in multi-channel I=5FT nexus =

situations (iSCSI and SAS, as we know them today).  As mentioned to Eddy=20
yesterday, it (or a concept like it with any other name - this concept is=20
in section 10.6.2 of RFC 3720 as well even though we didn't call it such)=20
is required for iSCSI's proper behavior.

Thanks.

Mallikarjun=20


----- Original Message ----
From: Julian Satran <julian.satran@gmail.com>
To: Mallikarjun C. <cb=5Fmallikarjun@yahoo.com>
Cc: IPS <ips@ietf.org>; Julian=5FSatran@il.ibm.com
Sent: Saturday, January 6, 2007 6:22:52 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: [Ips] Response Fence Flag

Mallikarjun & All,

As I pointed out in a private discussion with you I never considered in=20
dept the response-fence (beyond what is needed for TM).
It is a serious issue for any "transaction type" operations to storage -=20
but the last interface that had all the pieces correctly aligned was the=20
360 channel.
SCSI had taken (traditionally) the positions that sequencing and=20
barriers are rarely needed and when needed applications should provide=20
them.
And that is exactly what all of the relevant applications do (all=20
transaction monitors, databases etc.).

The way all the application handle cases when the start of some SCSI=20
command has to follow the end of a previous set of operations is to just=20
wait for the end of the operations before issuing the "dependent=20
commands".

Is this solution optimal? As you probably observed already this solution=20
implies that all the queues in the "stack" (at initiator, transport and=20
target) get empty before the dependent commands can be issued and that=20
is bad for performance.

Can fencing (bad name BTW because it is in widespread use for defect=20
isolation) improve this? Yes (by keeping the pipes full!) provided it is=20
associated with rigorous exception handling and the later is a SCSI=20
issue (exceptions will require emptying the queues). With most=20
applications being distributed I doubt also that fencing for a single=20
I=5FT nexus is interesting and coordinating fencing and exception handling =

over several I=5FTs is a complex exercise.

And as transport alone brings no value to the whole issue - why  should=20
we go through the exercise of defining a solution before SCSI has=20
defined one and we are confident that it is good enough and has value?=20
Again I agree that we a mechanism for TM but a good enough mechanism for=20
TM is already in and it gets now even better even without resorting to a=20
generalized fencing/barrier support.

Regards,
Julo








Mallikarjun C. wrote:
> Trying again after bouncing (>50KB), tail is now clipped....
>
> ----- Forwarded Message ----
> From: Mallikarjun C. <cb=5Fmallikarjun@yahoo.com>
> To: ips@ietf.org
> Sent: Friday, January 5, 2007 2:40:56 PM
> Subject: Re: [Ips] Response Fence Flag
>
> Hi John,
>=20
> As you correctly point out, there are two distinct but related=20
> topics here.
>=20
> (1) proper response ordering across participating connections in a=20
> multi-connection session, for a handful of task/TMF responses
> (2) proper way to terminate and signal tasks when actions on one=20
> session can impact multiple initiators
>=20
> (1) is all about response fence, it is covered separately in section=20
> 3.3 of IG draft.  That's what this email thread started off with.
>=20
> (2) covers cases that IG had called as as "multi-task abort" cases=20
> that typically have a shared task set across sessions, or are the=20
> result of a Logical Unit Reset TMF.  Section 4.1 of IG adresses (2).
>=20
> So how are (1) and (2) related?
>=20
> - Some cases covered under (2) overlap with (1), but some cases in (2)=20
> are for single connection sessions.  E.g. LU Reset on a single=20
> connection session impacting several 3rd party sessions
>=20
> - Some cases under (1) overlap with (2), but some cases in (1) have=20
> nothing to do with other sessions.  E.g. establishment of ACA on a=20
> non-shared task set
>=20
> - Section 4.1 (i.e. text for (2)) uses response fence (i.e. text for=20
> (1)) whenever multi-connection sessions are involved in multi-task=20
> abort situations.
>=20
> I hope that clarifies it.  Feel free to ask if that is not clear.  The=20
> net is that the response fence is the underpinning notion to describe=20
> the correct iSCSI behavior in a few cases and some of those cases are=20
> about task terminations across third-party sessions.
>=20
> Mallikarjun
>=20
>
>
>=20
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: John Hufferd <jhufferd@Brocade.COM>
> To: Mallikarjun C. <cb=5Fmallikarjun@yahoo.com>; ips@ietf.org
> Sent: Friday, January 5, 2007 1:01:06 PM
> Subject: RE: [Ips] Response Fence Flag
>
> Mallikarjun,
>
> I must admit, that I have been a bit confused with the direction of=20
> the conversation here.
>
>=20
>
> Therefore, I went back and reviewed the charts from Dallas .  And as I=20
> remembered, the initial focus was to address the issue of Multiple=20
> Connections per Session (MC/S) (as stated on chart 4 ? ?Non-issue for=20
> single-connection iSCSI sessions?).  So I think I have missed the step=20
> where we have morphed the discussion into one dealing with multiple=20
> sessions.  (I am not sure how that happened, or if I miss-read the=20
> charts from Dallas , or have not followed the discussion adequately.)
>
>=20
>
> If we are attempting to define two different issues, one with MC/S and=20
> one with Multiple Session from different Initiators, I think it would=20
> be useful to break down the conversation into Topic A ? MC/S and Topic=20
> B Multiple Sessions.  It is possible that one solution will addresses=20
> both, but I for one think I am hearing arguments that might be=20
> appropriate for Topic B, while I am thinking about its applicability=20
> to Topic A.
>
>=20
>
> Perhaps, you could address the issue as either being all about MC/S or=20
> explicitly state that it is intended to affect Multiple Sessions also,=20
> and then address the issues and solution for each separately.  For=20
> example, I believe Robert was addressing the issue from a view of=20
> Multiple Sessions and if we only intended to address MC/S then I=20
> expect the response might be somewhat different.
>
>=20
>
> Anyway, if you could clear-up some of this, I think it would be useful=20
> (at least to me).
>
>=20
>
> .
>
> .
>
> .
>
> John L Hufferd
>
> Sr. Executive Director of Technology
>
> Brocade Communications Systems, Inc
>
> jhufferd@brocade.com <mailto:jhufferd@brocade.com>
>
> Office Phone: (408) 333-5244; eFAX: (408) 904-4688
>
> Alt Office Phone: (408) 997-6136; Cell: (408) 627-9606
>
>=20
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* Mallikarjun C. [mailto:cb=5Fmallikarjun@yahoo.com]
> *Sent:* Friday, January 05, 2007 10:08 AM
> *To:* ips@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Ips] Response Fence Flag
>
>=20
>
> Not really.  Current draft text is intentionally written to not have=20
> any dependencies on T10 dynamics.  The point is that iSCSI needs such=20
> a notion for succinctly describing the proper iSCSI protocol actions=20
> in a few places - ACA, TMF, Persistent reserve/Abort to name a few.=20
> We certainly hope it will be approved by T10 and be a part of SAM-4=20
> soon, but that isn't required per se for describing what iSCSI needs=20
> for its correct behavior.
>
>=20
>
> IPS WG has adopted what it needs in the past - staying ahead of T10=20
> review/approval cycle if necessary.  I=5FT nexus loss notification,=20
> iSCSI target/port naming, clearing effects are a few I recall.
>
>=20
>
> Mallikarjun
>
>
>
>=20
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Eddy Quicksall <Quicksall=5FiSCSI@Bellsouth.net>
> To: Robert Snively <rsnively@Brocade.COM>; "Elliott, Robert (Server=20
> Storage)" <Elliott@hp.com>; ips@ietf.org
> Sent: Friday, January 5, 2007 8:58:47 AM
> Subject: Re: [Ips] Response Fence Flag
>
> From an earlier email I think that Response Fence is only a proposal=20
> in T10 (http://www.t10.org:80/doc06.htm=20
> <http://www.t10.org/doc06.htm>). If so shouldn't iSCSI wait a bit=20
> until this has been ratified?
>
>=20
>
> Eddy
>
>
> =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=
=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=
=5F
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=
=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F
> Ips mailing list
> Ips@ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ips
>=20





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=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around=20
http://mail.yahoo.com=20

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=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F
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--=_alternative 005840C08525725C_=
Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


<br><font size=3D2 face=3D"sans-serif">Odered commands guarantee a complete
ordered excution at the target (in the order the commands are received
by the target). Unordered responses can be &nbsp;expected (as the standards
are completely mute about them). The trouble is that the appliaction has
no control about the order the commands are received at the target.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=3D2 face=3D"sans-serif">Julo</font>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<table width=3D100%>
<tr valign=3Dtop>
<td width=3D40%><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif"><b>&quot;Eddy Quicksall&=
quot;
&lt;Quicksall=5FiSCSI@Bellsouth.net&gt;</b> </font>
<p><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif">07/01/07 10:39</font>
<td width=3D59%>
<table width=3D100%>
<tr valign=3Dtop>
<td>
<div align=3Dright><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif">To</font></div>
<td><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif">&quot;Mallikarjun C.&quot; &lt;cb=5F=
mallikarjun@yahoo.com&gt;,
Julian Satran/Haifa/IBM@IBMIL</font>
<tr valign=3Dtop>
<td>
<div align=3Dright><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif">cc</font></div>
<td><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif">&quot;IPS&quot; &lt;ips@ietf.org&gt;=
</font>
<tr valign=3Dtop>
<td>
<div align=3Dright><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif">Subject</font></div>
<td><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif">Re: Fw: [Ips] Response Fence Flag</f=
ont></table>
<br>
<table>
<tr valign=3Dtop>
<td>
<td></table>
<br></table>
<br>
<br>
<br><font size=3D2>Maybe this was already mentioned but wouldn't the Respon=
se
Fence be necessary for even commands with ordered tags?</font>
<br><font size=3D3>&nbsp;</font>
<br><font size=3D2>If an ordered command were sent on one connection then
an ordered command were sent on another connection, the response for the
2nd ordered command may get back to the initiator before the response for
the first ordered command. But that is not what would be expected by the
initiator. A case for this could also be made regarding one or more simples
followed by an ordered.</font>
<br><font size=3D3>&nbsp;</font>
<br><font size=3D2>Eddy</font>
<br><font size=3D3>----- Original Message ----- </font>
<br><font size=3D3><b>From:</b> </font><a href=3Dmailto:Julian=5FSatran@il.=
ibm.com><font size=3D3 color=3Dblue><u>Julian
Satran</u></font></a><font size=3D3> </font>
<br><font size=3D3><b>To:</b> </font><a href=3Dmailto:cb=5Fmallikarjun@yaho=
o.com><font size=3D3 color=3Dblue><u>Mallikarjun
C.</u></font></a><font size=3D3> </font>
<br><font size=3D3><b>Cc:</b> </font><a href=3Dmailto:ips@ietf.org><font si=
ze=3D3 color=3Dblue><u>IPS</u></font></a><font size=3D3>
</font>
<br><font size=3D3><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, January 07, 2007 9:46 AM</font>
<br><font size=3D3><b>Subject:</b> Re: Fw: [Ips] Response Fence Flag</font>
<br>
<br><font size=3D2 face=3D"sans-serif"><br>
Mallikarjun,</font><font size=3D3> <br>
</font><font size=3D2 face=3D"sans-serif"><br>
I did reffer to the SCSI task atributes and why the ordering attribute
is ill conceived as an ordering mechanism. I am repeating here the argument=
s:</font><font size=3D3>
</font>
<ul>
<li><font size=3D2 face=3D"sans-serif">based on receiver time ordering (not
controlled by application) &nbsp;makes them unsuitable for applications
</font>
<li><font size=3D2 face=3D"sans-serif">they are done either on every command
or none while applications (transactions) just need a &quot;barrier&quot;
between groups</font></ul><font size=3D3><br>
</font><font size=3D2 face=3D"sans-serif"><br>
Reponse ordering servs just this as the reponse with the barrier has to
be (hold) the last of a group and allows the next group to start.</font><fo=
nt size=3D3>
</font><font size=3D2 face=3D"sans-serif"><br>
The ordering of responses is a way for an application to achieve a partial
ordering in execution.</font><font size=3D3> <br>
</font><font size=3D2 face=3D"sans-serif"><br>
This is the way I read the draft.</font><font size=3D3> <br>
<br>
</font><font size=3D2 face=3D"sans-serif"><br>
In order to be valuable exceptions have to result in dropping and reissuing
all queued commands including the barrier and after.</font><font size=3D3>
<br>
</font><font size=3D2 face=3D"sans-serif"><br>
As for multi I=5FT=5FL nexuses (or even multi I=5FT) for the barrier to be =
used/relevant
it has to accomodate multiple units (nexi) as interesting applications
hold multiple nexi.</font><font size=3D3> </font><font size=3D2 face=3D"san=
s-serif"><br>
This accomodation is especially difficult in the face on of failures. If
this is what scsi had intended it for it looks to me that it is not finished
yet (SCSI will need a synchronized barrier accomodating several nexi) and
makes whatever we do of questionable value.</font><font size=3D3> <br>
</font><font size=3D2 face=3D"sans-serif"><br>
I am still OK with how it is written (as I I said before) - my change in
mind is only in &quot;if ought to be doing it&quot; (as I doubt its value
without additions) or we have to wait for SCSI to finish its work.</font><f=
ont size=3D3>
<br>
</font><font size=3D2 face=3D"sans-serif"><br>
For TM we already did what we had to do (without the barrier) and doing
the barrier is IMHO premature (although it answers nicely the single nexi
issue).</font><font size=3D3> <br>
</font><font size=3D2 face=3D"sans-serif"><br>
Regards,</font><font size=3D3> </font><font size=3D2 face=3D"sans-serif"><b=
r>
Julo</font><font size=3D3> <br>
<br>
</font>
<table width=3D100%>
<tr valign=3Dtop>
<td width=3D55%><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif"><b>&quot;Mallikarjun C.&=
quot;
&lt;cb=5Fmallikarjun@yahoo.com&gt;</b> </font>
<p><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif">06/01/07 17:54</font><font size=3D3> =
</font>
<td width=3D44%>
<br>
<table width=3D100%>
<tr valign=3Dtop>
<td width=3D18%>
<div align=3Dright><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif">To</font></div>
<td width=3D81%><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif">IPS &lt;ips@ietf.org&gt;=
</font><font size=3D3>
</font>
<tr valign=3Dtop>
<td>
<div align=3Dright><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif">cc</font></div>
<td>
<tr valign=3Dtop>
<td>
<div align=3Dright><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif">Subject</font></div>
<td><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif">Re: Fw: [Ips] Response Fence Flag</f=
ont></table>
<br>
<br>
<table>
<tr valign=3Dtop>
<td>
<td></table>
<br></table>
<br><font size=3D3><br>
<br>
</font><tt><font size=3D2><br>
Julian,<br>
<br>
I am surprised that you have not referred to the SCSI task attributes in
the command ordering discussion. &nbsp;In any case, in the interest of
staying on the response fence topic, I will not respond to the command
ordering points you made (debate topics for some other time, :-)).<br>
<br>
The whole notion of response fence though is all about ordering responses,
where such ordering is needed (only a very small % of responses, which
are listed in section 3.3.3 of IG draft as we know them today). &nbsp;The
updated draft, which I will forward for publication today, lists one additi=
onal
case - that of Persistent Reserve/Abort Tasks.<br>
<br>
I am not sure of your intended context of how SCSI-level rigorous exception
handling relates to response fence.<br>
<br>
And yes, response fence is not for cross-session collaboration, it is in
fact limited to a single I=5FT=5FL nexus (please refer to section 3.3 of im=
plementer's
guide).<br>
<br>
Regarding why iSCSI should define it, because it is required for succinctly
describing iSCSI protocol behavior in multi-channel I=5FT nexus situations
(iSCSI and SAS, as we know them today). &nbsp;As mentioned to Eddy yesterda=
y,
it (or a concept like it with any other name - this concept is in section
10.6.2 of RFC 3720 as well even though we didn't call it such) is required
for iSCSI's proper behavior.<br>
<br>
Thanks.<br>
<br>
Mallikarjun <br>
<br>
<br>
----- Original Message ----<br>
From: Julian Satran &lt;julian.satran@gmail.com&gt;<br>
To: Mallikarjun C. &lt;cb=5Fmallikarjun@yahoo.com&gt;<br>
Cc: IPS &lt;ips@ietf.org&gt;; Julian=5FSatran@il.ibm.com<br>
Sent: Saturday, January 6, 2007 6:22:52 AM<br>
Subject: Re: Fw: [Ips] Response Fence Flag<br>
<br>
Mallikarjun &amp; All,<br>
<br>
As I pointed out in a private discussion with you I never considered in
<br>
dept the response-fence (beyond what is needed for TM).<br>
It is a serious issue for any &quot;transaction type&quot; operations to
storage - <br>
but the last interface that had all the pieces correctly aligned was the
<br>
360 channel.<br>
SCSI had taken (traditionally) the positions that sequencing and <br>
barriers are rarely needed and when needed applications should provide
them.<br>
And that is exactly what all of the relevant applications do (all <br>
transaction monitors, databases etc.).<br>
<br>
The way all the application handle cases when the start of some SCSI <br>
command has to follow the end of a previous set of operations is to just
<br>
wait for the end of the operations before issuing the &quot;dependent comma=
nds&quot;.<br>
<br>
Is this solution optimal? As you probably observed already this solution
<br>
implies that all the queues in the &quot;stack&quot; (at initiator, transpo=
rt
and <br>
target) get empty before the dependent commands can be issued and that
<br>
is bad for performance.<br>
<br>
Can fencing (bad name BTW because it is in widespread use for defect <br>
isolation) improve this? Yes (by keeping the pipes full!) provided it is
<br>
associated with rigorous exception handling and the later is a SCSI <br>
issue (exceptions will require emptying the queues). With most <br>
applications being distributed I doubt also that fencing for a single <br>
I=5FT nexus is interesting and coordinating fencing and exception handling
<br>
over several I=5FTs is a complex exercise.<br>
<br>
And as transport alone brings no value to the whole issue - why &nbsp;should
<br>
we go through the exercise of defining a solution before SCSI has <br>
defined one and we are confident that it is good enough and has value?
<br>
Again I agree that we a mechanism for TM but a good enough mechanism for
<br>
TM is already in and it gets now even better even without resorting to
a <br>
generalized fencing/barrier support.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Julo<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Mallikarjun C. wrote:<br>
&gt; Trying again after bouncing (&gt;50KB), tail is now clipped....<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; ----- Forwarded Message ----<br>
&gt; From: Mallikarjun C. &lt;cb=5Fmallikarjun@yahoo.com&gt;<br>
&gt; To: ips@ietf.org<br>
&gt; Sent: Friday, January 5, 2007 2:40:56 PM<br>
&gt; Subject: Re: [Ips] Response Fence Flag<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Hi John,<br>
&gt; &nbsp;<br>
&gt; As you correctly point out, there are two distinct but related <br>
&gt; topics here.<br>
&gt; &nbsp;<br>
&gt; (1) proper response ordering across participating connections in a
<br>
&gt; multi-connection session, for a handful of task/TMF responses<br>
&gt; (2) proper way to terminate and signal tasks when actions on one <br>
&gt; session can impact multiple initiators<br>
&gt; &nbsp;<br>
&gt; (1) is all about response fence, it is covered separately in section
<br>
&gt; 3.3 of IG draft. &nbsp;That's what this email thread started off with.=
<br>
&gt; &nbsp;<br>
&gt; (2) covers cases that IG had called as as &quot;multi-task abort&quot;
cases <br>
&gt; that typically have a shared task set across sessions, or are the
<br>
&gt; result of a Logical Unit Reset TMF. &nbsp;Section 4.1 of IG adresses
(2).<br>
&gt; &nbsp;<br>
&gt; So how are (1) and (2) related?<br>
&gt; &nbsp;<br>
&gt; - Some cases covered under (2) overlap with (1), but some cases in
(2) <br>
&gt; are for single connection sessions. &nbsp;E.g. LU Reset on a single
<br>
&gt; connection session impacting several 3rd party sessions<br>
&gt; &nbsp;<br>
&gt; - Some cases under (1) overlap with (2), but some cases in (1) have
<br>
&gt; nothing to do with other sessions. &nbsp;E.g. establishment of ACA
on a <br>
&gt; non-shared task set<br>
&gt; &nbsp;<br>
&gt; - Section 4.1 (i.e. text for (2)) uses response fence (i.e. text for
<br>
&gt; (1)) whenever multi-connection sessions are involved in multi-task
<br>
&gt; abort situations.<br>
&gt; &nbsp;<br>
&gt; I hope that clarifies it. &nbsp;Feel free to ask if that is not clear.
&nbsp;The <br>
&gt; net is that the response fence is the underpinning notion to describe
<br>
&gt; the correct iSCSI behavior in a few cases and some of those cases
are <br>
&gt; about task terminations across third-party sessions.<br>
&gt; &nbsp;<br>
&gt; Mallikarjun<br>
&gt; &nbsp;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp;<br>
&gt; ----- Original Message ----<br>
&gt; From: John Hufferd &lt;jhufferd@Brocade.COM&gt;<br>
&gt; To: Mallikarjun C. &lt;cb=5Fmallikarjun@yahoo.com&gt;; ips@ietf.org<br>
&gt; Sent: Friday, January 5, 2007 1:01:06 PM<br>
&gt; Subject: RE: [Ips] Response Fence Flag<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Mallikarjun,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I must admit, that I have been a bit confused with the direction of
<br>
&gt; the conversation here.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Therefore, I went back and reviewed the charts from Dallas . &nbsp;And
as I <br>
&gt; remembered, the initial focus was to address the issue of Multiple
<br>
&gt; Connections per Session (MC/S) (as stated on chart 4 &#8211; &#8220;No=
n-issue
for <br>
&gt; single-connection iSCSI sessions&#8221;). &nbsp;So I think I have miss=
ed
the step <br>
&gt; where we have morphed the discussion into one dealing with multiple
<br>
&gt; sessions. &nbsp;(I am not sure how that happened, or if I miss-read
the <br>
&gt; charts from Dallas , or have not followed the discussion adequately.)<=
br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; If we are attempting to define two different issues, one with MC/S
and <br>
&gt; one with Multiple Session from different Initiators, I think it would
<br>
&gt; be useful to break down the conversation into Topic A &#8211; MC/S and
Topic <br>
&gt; B Multiple Sessions. &nbsp;It is possible that one solution will addre=
sses
<br>
&gt; both, but I for one think I am hearing arguments that might be <br>
&gt; appropriate for Topic B, while I am thinking about its applicability
<br>
&gt; to Topic A.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Perhaps, you could address the issue as either being all about MC/S
or <br>
&gt; explicitly state that it is intended to affect Multiple Sessions also,
<br>
&gt; and then address the issues and solution for each separately. &nbsp;For
<br>
&gt; example, I believe Robert was addressing the issue from a view of
<br>
&gt; Multiple Sessions and if we only intended to address MC/S then I <br>
&gt; expect the response might be somewhat different.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Anyway, if you could clear-up some of this, I think it would be useful
<br>
&gt; (at least to me).<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; .<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; .<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; .<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; John L Hufferd<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Sr. Executive Director of Technology<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Brocade Communications Systems, Inc<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; jhufferd@brocade.com &lt;mailto:jhufferd@brocade.com&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Office Phone: (408) 333-5244; eFAX: (408) 904-4688<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Alt Office Phone: (408) 997-6136; Cell: (408) 627-9606<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; ----------------------------------------------------------------------=
--<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; *From:* Mallikarjun C. [mailto:cb=5Fmallikarjun@yahoo.com]<br>
&gt; *Sent:* Friday, January 05, 2007 10:08 AM<br>
&gt; *To:* ips@ietf.org<br>
&gt; *Subject:* Re: [Ips] Response Fence Flag<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Not really. &nbsp;Current draft text is intentionally written to not
have <br>
&gt; any dependencies on T10 dynamics. &nbsp;The point is that iSCSI needs
such <br>
&gt; a notion for succinctly describing the proper iSCSI protocol actions
<br>
&gt; in a few places - ACA, TMF, Persistent reserve/Abort to name a few.
&nbsp;<br>
&gt; We certainly hope it will be approved by T10 and be a part of SAM-4
<br>
&gt; soon, but that isn't required per se for describing what iSCSI needs
<br>
&gt; for its correct behavior.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; IPS WG has adopted what it needs in the past - staying ahead of T10
<br>
&gt; review/approval cycle if necessary. &nbsp;I=5FT nexus loss notificatio=
n,
<br>
&gt; iSCSI target/port naming, clearing effects are a few I recall.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Mallikarjun<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; ----- Original Message ----<br>
&gt; From: Eddy Quicksall &lt;Quicksall=5FiSCSI@Bellsouth.net&gt;<br>
&gt; To: Robert Snively &lt;rsnively@Brocade.COM&gt;; &quot;Elliott, Robert
(Server <br>
&gt; Storage)&quot; &lt;Elliott@hp.com&gt;; ips@ietf.org<br>
&gt; Sent: Friday, January 5, 2007 8:58:47 AM<br>
&gt; Subject: Re: [Ips] Response Fence Flag<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; From an earlier email I think that Response Fence is only a proposal
<br>
&gt; in T10 (http://www.t10.org:80/doc06.htm <br>
&gt; &lt;http://www.t10.org/doc06.htm&gt;). If so shouldn't iSCSI wait
a bit <br>
&gt; until this has been ratified?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Eddy<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=
=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=
=5F=5F<br>
&gt; Do You Yahoo!?<br>
&gt; Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around<br>
&gt; http://mail.yahoo.com<br>
&gt; ----------------------------------------------------------------------=
--<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=
=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F<br>
&gt; Ips mailing list<br>
&gt; Ips@ietf.org<br>
&gt; https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ips<br>
&gt; &nbsp; <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=
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<br>
Do You Yahoo!?<br>
Tired of spam? &nbsp;Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around <br>
http://mail.yahoo.com <br>
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Ips mailing list<br>
Ips@ietf.org<br>
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</font>
<p>
<hr>
<p><font size=3D3>=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=
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From ips-bounces@ietf.org Sun Jan 07 12:08:06 2007
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Message-ID: <002901c7327e$57d196d0$01faa8c0@ivivity.com>
From: "Eddy Quicksall" <Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net>
To: "Julian Satran" <Julian_Satran@il.ibm.com>
References: <OF97F5E80F.CF28697F-ON8525725C.0057D886-8525725C.00584303@il.ibm.com>
Subject: Re: Fw: [Ips] Response Fence Flag
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I would think ordered commands would correctly for a single instance of =
a single application.

Is your example that there may be multiple instances of an application =
(or multiple applications), each issuing ordered commands to the same =
I_T Nexus and that a single instance/application would not be able to =
guarantee order with respect to other instances/applications?

Eddy
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Julian Satran=20
  To: Eddy Quicksall=20
  Cc: Mallikarjun C. ; IPS=20
  Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 11:04 AM
  Subject: Re: Fw: [Ips] Response Fence Flag



  Odered commands guarantee a complete ordered excution at the target =
(in the order the commands are received by the target). Unordered =
responses can be  expected (as the standards are completely mute about =
them). The trouble is that the appliaction has no control about the =
order the commands are received at the target.=20

  Julo=20


        "Eddy Quicksall" <Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net>=20
        07/01/07 10:39=20
       To "Mallikarjun C." <cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com>, Julian =
Satran/Haifa/IBM@IBMIL =20
              cc "IPS" <ips@ietf.org> =20
              Subject Re: Fw: [Ips] Response Fence Flag=20

             =20

      =20



  Maybe this was already mentioned but wouldn't the Response Fence be =
necessary for even commands with ordered tags?=20
   =20
  If an ordered command were sent on one connection then an ordered =
command were sent on another connection, the response for the 2nd =
ordered command may get back to the initiator before the response for =
the first ordered command. But that is not what would be expected by the =
initiator. A case for this could also be made regarding one or more =
simples followed by an ordered.=20
   =20
  Eddy=20
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Julian Satran=20
  To: Mallikarjun C.=20
  Cc: IPS=20
  Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 9:46 AM=20
  Subject: Re: Fw: [Ips] Response Fence Flag=20


  Mallikarjun,=20

  I did reffer to the SCSI task atributes and why the ordering attribute =
is ill conceived as an ordering mechanism. I am repeating here the =
arguments:=20
    a.. based on receiver time ordering (not controlled by application)  =
makes them unsuitable for applications=20
    b.. they are done either on every command or none while applications =
(transactions) just need a "barrier" between groups


  Reponse ordering servs just this as the reponse with the barrier has =
to be (hold) the last of a group and allows the next group to start.=20
  The ordering of responses is a way for an application to achieve a =
partial ordering in execution.=20

  This is the way I read the draft.=20


  In order to be valuable exceptions have to result in dropping and =
reissuing all queued commands including the barrier and after.=20

  As for multi I_T_L nexuses (or even multi I_T) for the barrier to be =
used/relevant it has to accomodate multiple units (nexi) as interesting =
applications hold multiple nexi.=20
  This accomodation is especially difficult in the face on of failures. =
If this is what scsi had intended it for it looks to me that it is not =
finished yet (SCSI will need a synchronized barrier accomodating several =
nexi) and makes whatever we do of questionable value.=20

  I am still OK with how it is written (as I I said before) - my change =
in mind is only in "if ought to be doing it" (as I doubt its value =
without additions) or we have to wait for SCSI to finish its work.=20

  For TM we already did what we had to do (without the barrier) and =
doing the barrier is IMHO premature (although it answers nicely the =
single nexi issue).=20

  Regards,=20
  Julo=20

        "Mallikarjun C." <cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com>=20
        06/01/07 17:54=20
      =20
              To IPS <ips@ietf.org> =20
              cc =20
              Subject Re: Fw: [Ips] Response Fence Flag=20


             =20

      =20




  Julian,

  I am surprised that you have not referred to the SCSI task attributes =
in the command ordering discussion.  In any case, in the interest of =
staying on the response fence topic, I will not respond to the command =
ordering points you made (debate topics for some other time, :-)).

  The whole notion of response fence though is all about ordering =
responses, where such ordering is needed (only a very small % of =
responses, which are listed in section 3.3.3 of IG draft as we know them =
today).  The updated draft, which I will forward for publication today, =
lists one additional case - that of Persistent Reserve/Abort Tasks.

  I am not sure of your intended context of how SCSI-level rigorous =
exception handling relates to response fence.

  And yes, response fence is not for cross-session collaboration, it is =
in fact limited to a single I_T_L nexus (please refer to section 3.3 of =
implementer's guide).

  Regarding why iSCSI should define it, because it is required for =
succinctly describing iSCSI protocol behavior in multi-channel I_T nexus =
situations (iSCSI and SAS, as we know them today).  As mentioned to Eddy =
yesterday, it (or a concept like it with any other name - this concept =
is in section 10.6.2 of RFC 3720 as well even though we didn't call it =
such) is required for iSCSI's proper behavior.

  Thanks.

  Mallikarjun=20


  ----- Original Message ----
  From: Julian Satran <julian.satran@gmail.com>
  To: Mallikarjun C. <cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com>
  Cc: IPS <ips@ietf.org>; Julian_Satran@il.ibm.com
  Sent: Saturday, January 6, 2007 6:22:52 AM
  Subject: Re: Fw: [Ips] Response Fence Flag

  Mallikarjun & All,

  As I pointed out in a private discussion with you I never considered =
in=20
  dept the response-fence (beyond what is needed for TM).
  It is a serious issue for any "transaction type" operations to storage =
-=20
  but the last interface that had all the pieces correctly aligned was =
the=20
  360 channel.
  SCSI had taken (traditionally) the positions that sequencing and=20
  barriers are rarely needed and when needed applications should provide =
them.
  And that is exactly what all of the relevant applications do (all=20
  transaction monitors, databases etc.).

  The way all the application handle cases when the start of some SCSI=20
  command has to follow the end of a previous set of operations is to =
just=20
  wait for the end of the operations before issuing the "dependent =
commands".

  Is this solution optimal? As you probably observed already this =
solution=20
  implies that all the queues in the "stack" (at initiator, transport =
and=20
  target) get empty before the dependent commands can be issued and that =

  is bad for performance.

  Can fencing (bad name BTW because it is in widespread use for defect=20
  isolation) improve this? Yes (by keeping the pipes full!) provided it =
is=20
  associated with rigorous exception handling and the later is a SCSI=20
  issue (exceptions will require emptying the queues). With most=20
  applications being distributed I doubt also that fencing for a single=20
  I_T nexus is interesting and coordinating fencing and exception =
handling=20
  over several I_Ts is a complex exercise.

  And as transport alone brings no value to the whole issue - why  =
should=20
  we go through the exercise of defining a solution before SCSI has=20
  defined one and we are confident that it is good enough and has value? =

  Again I agree that we a mechanism for TM but a good enough mechanism =
for=20
  TM is already in and it gets now even better even without resorting to =
a=20
  generalized fencing/barrier support.

  Regards,
  Julo








  Mallikarjun C. wrote:
  > Trying again after bouncing (>50KB), tail is now clipped....
  >
  > ----- Forwarded Message ----
  > From: Mallikarjun C. <cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com>
  > To: ips@ietf.org
  > Sent: Friday, January 5, 2007 2:40:56 PM
  > Subject: Re: [Ips] Response Fence Flag
  >
  > Hi John,
  > =20
  > As you correctly point out, there are two distinct but related=20
  > topics here.
  > =20
  > (1) proper response ordering across participating connections in a=20
  > multi-connection session, for a handful of task/TMF responses
  > (2) proper way to terminate and signal tasks when actions on one=20
  > session can impact multiple initiators
  > =20
  > (1) is all about response fence, it is covered separately in section =

  > 3.3 of IG draft.  That's what this email thread started off with.
  > =20
  > (2) covers cases that IG had called as as "multi-task abort" cases=20
  > that typically have a shared task set across sessions, or are the=20
  > result of a Logical Unit Reset TMF.  Section 4.1 of IG adresses (2).
  > =20
  > So how are (1) and (2) related?
  > =20
  > - Some cases covered under (2) overlap with (1), but some cases in =
(2)=20
  > are for single connection sessions.  E.g. LU Reset on a single=20
  > connection session impacting several 3rd party sessions
  > =20
  > - Some cases under (1) overlap with (2), but some cases in (1) have=20
  > nothing to do with other sessions.  E.g. establishment of ACA on a=20
  > non-shared task set
  > =20
  > - Section 4.1 (i.e. text for (2)) uses response fence (i.e. text for =

  > (1)) whenever multi-connection sessions are involved in multi-task=20
  > abort situations.
  > =20
  > I hope that clarifies it.  Feel free to ask if that is not clear.  =
The=20
  > net is that the response fence is the underpinning notion to =
describe=20
  > the correct iSCSI behavior in a few cases and some of those cases =
are=20
  > about task terminations across third-party sessions.
  > =20
  > Mallikarjun
  > =20
  >
  >
  > =20
  > ----- Original Message ----
  > From: John Hufferd <jhufferd@Brocade.COM>
  > To: Mallikarjun C. <cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com>; ips@ietf.org
  > Sent: Friday, January 5, 2007 1:01:06 PM
  > Subject: RE: [Ips] Response Fence Flag
  >
  > Mallikarjun,
  >
  > I must admit, that I have been a bit confused with the direction of=20
  > the conversation here.
  >
  > =20
  >
  > Therefore, I went back and reviewed the charts from Dallas .  And as =
I=20
  > remembered, the initial focus was to address the issue of Multiple=20
  > Connections per Session (MC/S) (as stated on chart 4 - "Non-issue =
for=20
  > single-connection iSCSI sessions").  So I think I have missed the =
step=20
  > where we have morphed the discussion into one dealing with multiple=20
  > sessions.  (I am not sure how that happened, or if I miss-read the=20
  > charts from Dallas , or have not followed the discussion =
adequately.)
  >
  > =20
  >
  > If we are attempting to define two different issues, one with MC/S =
and=20
  > one with Multiple Session from different Initiators, I think it =
would=20
  > be useful to break down the conversation into Topic A - MC/S and =
Topic=20
  > B Multiple Sessions.  It is possible that one solution will =
addresses=20
  > both, but I for one think I am hearing arguments that might be=20
  > appropriate for Topic B, while I am thinking about its applicability =

  > to Topic A.
  >
  > =20
  >
  > Perhaps, you could address the issue as either being all about MC/S =
or=20
  > explicitly state that it is intended to affect Multiple Sessions =
also,=20
  > and then address the issues and solution for each separately.  For=20
  > example, I believe Robert was addressing the issue from a view of=20
  > Multiple Sessions and if we only intended to address MC/S then I=20
  > expect the response might be somewhat different.
  >
  > =20
  >
  > Anyway, if you could clear-up some of this, I think it would be =
useful=20
  > (at least to me).
  >
  > =20
  >
  > .
  >
  > .
  >
  > .
  >
  > John L Hufferd
  >
  > Sr. Executive Director of Technology
  >
  > Brocade Communications Systems, Inc
  >
  > jhufferd@brocade.com <mailto:jhufferd@brocade.com>
  >
  > Office Phone: (408) 333-5244; eFAX: (408) 904-4688
  >
  > Alt Office Phone: (408) 997-6136; Cell: (408) 627-9606
  >
  > =20
  >
  > =
------------------------------------------------------------------------
  >
  > *From:* Mallikarjun C. [mailto:cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com]
  > *Sent:* Friday, January 05, 2007 10:08 AM
  > *To:* ips@ietf.org
  > *Subject:* Re: [Ips] Response Fence Flag
  >
  > =20
  >
  > Not really.  Current draft text is intentionally written to not have =

  > any dependencies on T10 dynamics.  The point is that iSCSI needs =
such=20
  > a notion for succinctly describing the proper iSCSI protocol actions =

  > in a few places - ACA, TMF, Persistent reserve/Abort to name a few.  =

  > We certainly hope it will be approved by T10 and be a part of SAM-4=20
  > soon, but that isn't required per se for describing what iSCSI needs =

  > for its correct behavior.
  >
  > =20
  >
  > IPS WG has adopted what it needs in the past - staying ahead of T10=20
  > review/approval cycle if necessary.  I_T nexus loss notification,=20
  > iSCSI target/port naming, clearing effects are a few I recall.
  >
  > =20
  >
  > Mallikarjun
  >
  >
  >
  > =20
  >
  > ----- Original Message ----
  > From: Eddy Quicksall <Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net>
  > To: Robert Snively <rsnively@Brocade.COM>; "Elliott, Robert (Server=20
  > Storage)" <Elliott@hp.com>; ips@ietf.org
  > Sent: Friday, January 5, 2007 8:58:47 AM
  > Subject: Re: [Ips] Response Fence Flag
  >
  > From an earlier email I think that Response Fence is only a proposal =

  > in T10 (http://www.t10.org:80/doc06.htm=20
  > <http://www.t10.org/doc06.htm>). If so shouldn't iSCSI wait a bit=20
  > until this has been ratified?
  >
  > =20
  >
  > Eddy
  >
  >
  > __________________________________________________
  > Do You Yahoo!?
  > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
  > http://mail.yahoo.com
  > =
------------------------------------------------------------------------
  >
  > _______________________________________________
  > Ips mailing list
  > Ips@ietf.org
  > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ips
  >  =20





  __________________________________________________
  Do You Yahoo!?
  Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around=20
  http://mail.yahoo.com=20

  _______________________________________________
  Ips mailing list
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  https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ips



-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
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  https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ips=20


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<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I would think&nbsp;ordered commands&nbsp;would =
correctly for a=20
single instance of a&nbsp;single&nbsp;application.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Is your example that there may be multiple instances =
of an=20
application (or multiple applications), each issuing ordered commands to =
the=20
same I_T&nbsp;Nexus&nbsp;and&nbsp;that a single instance/application =
would not=20
be able to guarantee order with respect to other=20
instances/applications?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Eddy</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3DJulian_Satran@il.ibm.com=20
  href=3D"mailto:Julian_Satran@il.ibm.com">Julian Satran</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
  title=3DQuicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net=20
  href=3D"mailto:Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net">Eddy Quicksall</A> =
</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A =
title=3Dcb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com=20
  href=3D"mailto:cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com">Mallikarjun C.</A> ; <A=20
  title=3Dips@ietf.org href=3D"mailto:ips@ietf.org">IPS</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, January 07, 2007 =
11:04=20
  AM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Fw: [Ips] Response =
Fence=20
  Flag</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV><BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>Odered commands =
guarantee a=20
  complete ordered excution at the target (in the order the commands are =

  received by the target). Unordered responses can be &nbsp;expected (as =
the=20
  standards are completely mute about them). The trouble is that the =
appliaction=20
  has no control about the order the commands are received at the =
target.</FONT>=20
  <BR><BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>Julo</FONT> <BR><BR><BR>
  <TABLE width=3D"100%">
    <TBODY>
    <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
      <TD width=3D"40%"><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1><B>"Eddy =
Quicksall" &lt;<A=20
        =
href=3D"mailto:Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net">Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.n=
et</A>&gt;</B>=20
        </FONT>
        <P><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>07/01/07 10:39</FONT> </P>
      <TD width=3D"59%">
        <TABLE width=3D"100%">
          <TBODY>
          <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
            <TD>
              <DIV align=3Dright><FONT face=3Dsans-serif =
size=3D1>To</FONT></DIV>
            <TD><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>"Mallikarjun C." &lt;<A =

              =
href=3D"mailto:cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com">cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com</A>&gt;=
,=20
              Julian <A=20
              =
href=3D"mailto:Satran/Haifa/IBM@IBMIL">Satran/Haifa/IBM@IBMIL</A></FONT> =


          <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
            <TD>
              <DIV align=3Dright><FONT face=3Dsans-serif =
size=3D1>cc</FONT></DIV>
            <TD><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>"IPS" &lt;<A=20
              href=3D"mailto:ips@ietf.org">ips@ietf.org</A>&gt;</FONT>=20
          <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
            <TD>
              <DIV align=3Dright><FONT face=3Dsans-serif =
size=3D1>Subject</FONT></DIV>
            <TD><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>Re: Fw: [Ips] Response =
Fence=20
              Flag</FONT></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR>
        <TABLE>
          <TBODY>
          <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
            <TD>
            =
<TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR><BR><BR><FONT=20
  size=3D2>Maybe this was already mentioned but wouldn't the Response =
Fence be=20
  necessary for even commands with ordered tags?</FONT> <BR><FONT=20
  size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>If an ordered command were =
sent on one=20
  connection then an ordered command were sent on another connection, =
the=20
  response for the 2nd ordered command may get back to the initiator =
before the=20
  response for the first ordered command. But that is not what would be =
expected=20
  by the initiator. A case for this could also be made regarding one or =
more=20
  simples followed by an ordered.</FONT> <BR><FONT =
size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT>=20
  <BR><FONT size=3D2>Eddy</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D3>----- Original =
Message -----=20
  </FONT><BR><FONT size=3D3><B>From:</B> </FONT><A=20
  href=3D"mailto:Julian_Satran@il.ibm.com"><FONT color=3Dblue =
size=3D3><U>Julian=20
  Satran</U></FONT></A><FONT size=3D3> </FONT><BR><FONT =
size=3D3><B>To:</B>=20
  </FONT><A href=3D"mailto:cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com"><FONT color=3Dblue=20
  size=3D3><U>Mallikarjun C.</U></FONT></A><FONT size=3D3> =
</FONT><BR><FONT=20
  size=3D3><B>Cc:</B> </FONT><A href=3D"mailto:ips@ietf.org"><FONT =
color=3Dblue=20
  size=3D3><U>IPS</U></FONT></A><FONT size=3D3> </FONT><BR><FONT =
size=3D3><B>Sent:</B>=20
  Sunday, January 07, 2007 9:46 AM</FONT> <BR><FONT =
size=3D3><B>Subject:</B> Re:=20
  Fw: [Ips] Response Fence Flag</FONT> <BR><BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif=20
  size=3D2><BR>Mallikarjun,</FONT><FONT size=3D3> <BR></FONT><FONT =
face=3Dsans-serif=20
  size=3D2><BR>I did reffer to the SCSI task atributes and why the =
ordering=20
  attribute is ill conceived as an ordering mechanism. I am repeating =
here the=20
  arguments:</FONT><FONT size=3D3> </FONT>
  <UL>
    <LI><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>based on receiver time ordering =
(not=20
    controlled by application) &nbsp;makes them unsuitable for =
applications=20
    </FONT>
    <LI><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>they are done either on every =
command or=20
    none while applications (transactions) just need a "barrier" between =

    groups</FONT></LI></UL><FONT size=3D3><BR></FONT><FONT =
face=3Dsans-serif=20
  size=3D2><BR>Reponse ordering servs just this as the reponse with the =
barrier=20
  has to be (hold) the last of a group and allows the next group to=20
  start.</FONT><FONT size=3D3> </FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif =
size=3D2><BR>The=20
  ordering of responses is a way for an application to achieve a partial =

  ordering in execution.</FONT><FONT size=3D3> <BR></FONT><FONT =
face=3Dsans-serif=20
  size=3D2><BR>This is the way I read the draft.</FONT><FONT size=3D3>=20
  <BR><BR></FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2><BR>In order to be =
valuable=20
  exceptions have to result in dropping and reissuing all queued =
commands=20
  including the barrier and after.</FONT><FONT size=3D3> =
<BR></FONT><FONT=20
  face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2><BR>As for multi I_T_L nexuses (or even =
multi I_T) for=20
  the barrier to be used/relevant it has to accomodate multiple units =
(nexi) as=20
  interesting applications hold multiple nexi.</FONT><FONT size=3D3> =
</FONT><FONT=20
  face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2><BR>This accomodation is especially =
difficult in the=20
  face on of failures. If this is what scsi had intended it for it looks =
to me=20
  that it is not finished yet (SCSI will need a synchronized barrier=20
  accomodating several nexi) and makes whatever we do of questionable=20
  value.</FONT><FONT size=3D3> <BR></FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif =
size=3D2><BR>I am=20
  still OK with how it is written (as I I said before) - my change in =
mind is=20
  only in "if ought to be doing it" (as I doubt its value without =
additions) or=20
  we have to wait for SCSI to finish its work.</FONT><FONT size=3D3>=20
  <BR></FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2><BR>For TM we already did =
what we had=20
  to do (without the barrier) and doing the barrier is IMHO premature =
(although=20
  it answers nicely the single nexi issue).</FONT><FONT size=3D3> =
<BR></FONT><FONT=20
  face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2><BR>Regards,</FONT><FONT size=3D3> =
</FONT><FONT=20
  face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2><BR>Julo</FONT><FONT size=3D3> =
<BR><BR></FONT>
  <TABLE width=3D"100%">
    <TBODY>
    <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
      <TD width=3D"55%"><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1><B>"Mallikarjun =
C."=20
        &lt;cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com&gt;</B> </FONT>
        <P><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>06/01/07 17:54</FONT><FONT =
size=3D3>=20
        </FONT></P>
      <TD width=3D"44%"><BR>
        <TABLE width=3D"100%">
          <TBODY>
          <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
            <TD width=3D"18%">
              <DIV align=3Dright><FONT face=3Dsans-serif =
size=3D1>To</FONT></DIV>
            <TD width=3D"81%"><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>IPS=20
              &lt;ips@ietf.org&gt;</FONT><FONT size=3D3> </FONT>
          <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
            <TD>
              <DIV align=3Dright><FONT face=3Dsans-serif =
size=3D1>cc</FONT></DIV>
            <TD>
          <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
            <TD>
              <DIV align=3Dright><FONT face=3Dsans-serif =
size=3D1>Subject</FONT></DIV>
            <TD><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>Re: Fw: [Ips] Response =
Fence=20
              Flag</FONT></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR><BR>
        <TABLE>
          <TBODY>
          <TR vAlign=3Dtop>
            <TD>
            <TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR><FONT=20
  size=3D3><BR><BR></FONT><TT><FONT size=3D2><BR>Julian,<BR><BR>I am =
surprised that=20
  you have not referred to the SCSI task attributes in the command =
ordering=20
  discussion. &nbsp;In any case, in the interest of staying on the =
response=20
  fence topic, I will not respond to the command ordering points you =
made=20
  (debate topics for some other time, :-)).<BR><BR>The whole notion of =
response=20
  fence though is all about ordering responses, where such ordering is =
needed=20
  (only a very small % of responses, which are listed in section 3.3.3 =
of IG=20
  draft as we know them today). &nbsp;The updated draft, which I will =
forward=20
  for publication today, lists one additional case - that of Persistent=20
  Reserve/Abort Tasks.<BR><BR>I am not sure of your intended context of =
how=20
  SCSI-level rigorous exception handling relates to response =
fence.<BR><BR>And=20
  yes, response fence is not for cross-session collaboration, it is in =
fact=20
  limited to a single I_T_L nexus (please refer to section 3.3 of =
implementer's=20
  guide).<BR><BR>Regarding why iSCSI should define it, because it is =
required=20
  for succinctly describing iSCSI protocol behavior in multi-channel I_T =
nexus=20
  situations (iSCSI and SAS, as we know them today). &nbsp;As mentioned =
to Eddy=20
  yesterday, it (or a concept like it with any other name - this concept =
is in=20
  section 10.6.2 of RFC 3720 as well even though we didn't call it such) =
is=20
  required for iSCSI's proper =
behavior.<BR><BR>Thanks.<BR><BR>Mallikarjun=20
  <BR><BR><BR>----- Original Message ----<BR>From: Julian Satran=20
  &lt;julian.satran@gmail.com&gt;<BR>To: Mallikarjun C.=20
  &lt;cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com&gt;<BR>Cc: IPS &lt;ips@ietf.org&gt;;=20
  Julian_Satran@il.ibm.com<BR>Sent: Saturday, January 6, 2007 6:22:52=20
  AM<BR>Subject: Re: Fw: [Ips] Response Fence Flag<BR><BR>Mallikarjun =
&amp;=20
  All,<BR><BR>As I pointed out in a private discussion with you I never=20
  considered in <BR>dept the response-fence (beyond what is needed for=20
  TM).<BR>It is a serious issue for any "transaction type" operations to =
storage=20
  - <BR>but the last interface that had all the pieces correctly aligned =
was the=20
  <BR>360 channel.<BR>SCSI had taken (traditionally) the positions that=20
  sequencing and <BR>barriers are rarely needed and when needed =
applications=20
  should provide them.<BR>And that is exactly what all of the relevant=20
  applications do (all <BR>transaction monitors, databases =
etc.).<BR><BR>The way=20
  all the application handle cases when the start of some SCSI =
<BR>command has=20
  to follow the end of a previous set of operations is to just <BR>wait =
for the=20
  end of the operations before issuing the "dependent =
commands".<BR><BR>Is this=20
  solution optimal? As you probably observed already this solution =
<BR>implies=20
  that all the queues in the "stack" (at initiator, transport and =
<BR>target)=20
  get empty before the dependent commands can be issued and that <BR>is =
bad for=20
  performance.<BR><BR>Can fencing (bad name BTW because it is in =
widespread use=20
  for defect <BR>isolation) improve this? Yes (by keeping the pipes =
full!)=20
  provided it is <BR>associated with rigorous exception handling and the =
later=20
  is a SCSI <BR>issue (exceptions will require emptying the queues). =
With most=20
  <BR>applications being distributed I doubt also that fencing for a =
single=20
  <BR>I_T nexus is interesting and coordinating fencing and exception =
handling=20
  <BR>over several I_Ts is a complex exercise.<BR><BR>And as transport =
alone=20
  brings no value to the whole issue - why &nbsp;should <BR>we go =
through the=20
  exercise of defining a solution before SCSI has <BR>defined one and we =
are=20
  confident that it is good enough and has value? <BR>Again I agree that =
we a=20
  mechanism for TM but a good enough mechanism for <BR>TM is already in =
and it=20
  gets now even better even without resorting to a <BR>generalized=20
  fencing/barrier=20
  =
support.<BR><BR>Regards,<BR>Julo<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>Malli=
karjun=20
  C. wrote:<BR>&gt; Trying again after bouncing (&gt;50KB), tail is now=20
  clipped....<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; ----- Forwarded Message ----<BR>&gt; From: =

  Mallikarjun C. &lt;cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com&gt;<BR>&gt; To:=20
  ips@ietf.org<BR>&gt; Sent: Friday, January 5, 2007 2:40:56 PM<BR>&gt; =
Subject:=20
  Re: [Ips] Response Fence Flag<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Hi John,<BR>&gt; =
&nbsp;<BR>&gt;=20
  As you correctly point out, there are two distinct but related =
<BR>&gt; topics=20
  here.<BR>&gt; &nbsp;<BR>&gt; (1) proper response ordering across =
participating=20
  connections in a <BR>&gt; multi-connection session, for a handful of =
task/TMF=20
  responses<BR>&gt; (2) proper way to terminate and signal tasks when =
actions on=20
  one <BR>&gt; session can impact multiple initiators<BR>&gt; =
&nbsp;<BR>&gt; (1)=20
  is all about response fence, it is covered separately in section =
<BR>&gt; 3.3=20
  of IG draft. &nbsp;That's what this email thread started off =
with.<BR>&gt;=20
  &nbsp;<BR>&gt; (2) covers cases that IG had called as as "multi-task =
abort"=20
  cases <BR>&gt; that typically have a shared task set across sessions, =
or are=20
  the <BR>&gt; result of a Logical Unit Reset TMF. &nbsp;Section 4.1 of =
IG=20
  adresses (2).<BR>&gt; &nbsp;<BR>&gt; So how are (1) and (2) =
related?<BR>&gt;=20
  &nbsp;<BR>&gt; - Some cases covered under (2) overlap with (1), but =
some cases=20
  in (2) <BR>&gt; are for single connection sessions. &nbsp;E.g. LU =
Reset on a=20
  single <BR>&gt; connection session impacting several 3rd party=20
  sessions<BR>&gt; &nbsp;<BR>&gt; - Some cases under (1) overlap with =
(2), but=20
  some cases in (1) have <BR>&gt; nothing to do with other sessions. =
&nbsp;E.g.=20
  establishment of ACA on a <BR>&gt; non-shared task set<BR>&gt; =
&nbsp;<BR>&gt;=20
  - Section 4.1 (i.e. text for (2)) uses response fence (i.e. text for =
<BR>&gt;=20
  (1)) whenever multi-connection sessions are involved in multi-task =
<BR>&gt;=20
  abort situations.<BR>&gt; &nbsp;<BR>&gt; I hope that clarifies it. =
&nbsp;Feel=20
  free to ask if that is not clear. &nbsp;The <BR>&gt; net is that the =
response=20
  fence is the underpinning notion to describe <BR>&gt; the correct =
iSCSI=20
  behavior in a few cases and some of those cases are <BR>&gt; about =
task=20
  terminations across third-party sessions.<BR>&gt; &nbsp;<BR>&gt;=20
  Mallikarjun<BR>&gt; &nbsp;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &nbsp;<BR>&gt; =
-----=20
  Original Message ----<BR>&gt; From: John Hufferd=20
  &lt;jhufferd@Brocade.COM&gt;<BR>&gt; To: Mallikarjun C.=20
  &lt;cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com&gt;; ips@ietf.org<BR>&gt; Sent: Friday, =
January=20
  5, 2007 1:01:06 PM<BR>&gt; Subject: RE: [Ips] Response Fence=20
  Flag<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Mallikarjun,<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I must admit, that I =
have=20
  been a bit confused with the direction of <BR>&gt; the conversation=20
  here.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &nbsp;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Therefore, I went back =
and=20
  reviewed the charts from Dallas . &nbsp;And as I <BR>&gt; remembered, =
the=20
  initial focus was to address the issue of Multiple <BR>&gt; =
Connections per=20
  Session (MC/S) (as stated on chart 4 =96 =93Non-issue for <BR>&gt;=20
  single-connection iSCSI sessions=94). &nbsp;So I think I have missed =
the step=20
  <BR>&gt; where we have morphed the discussion into one dealing with =
multiple=20
  <BR>&gt; sessions. &nbsp;(I am not sure how that happened, or if I =
miss-read=20
  the <BR>&gt; charts from Dallas , or have not followed the discussion=20
  adequately.)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &nbsp;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; If we are =
attempting to=20
  define two different issues, one with MC/S and <BR>&gt; one with =
Multiple=20
  Session from different Initiators, I think it would <BR>&gt; be useful =
to=20
  break down the conversation into Topic A =96 MC/S and Topic <BR>&gt; B =
Multiple=20
  Sessions. &nbsp;It is possible that one solution will addresses =
<BR>&gt; both,=20
  but I for one think I am hearing arguments that might be <BR>&gt; =
appropriate=20
  for Topic B, while I am thinking about its applicability <BR>&gt; to =
Topic=20
  A.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &nbsp;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Perhaps, you could address =
the issue=20
  as either being all about MC/S or <BR>&gt; explicitly state that it is =

  intended to affect Multiple Sessions also, <BR>&gt; and then address =
the=20
  issues and solution for each separately. &nbsp;For <BR>&gt; example, I =
believe=20
  Robert was addressing the issue from a view of <BR>&gt; Multiple =
Sessions and=20
  if we only intended to address MC/S then I <BR>&gt; expect the =
response might=20
  be somewhat different.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &nbsp;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Anyway, =
if you=20
  could clear-up some of this, I think it would be useful <BR>&gt; (at =
least to=20
  me).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &nbsp;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; .<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;=20
  .<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; .<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; John L Hufferd<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Sr. =

  Executive Director of Technology<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Brocade =
Communications=20
  Systems, Inc<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; jhufferd@brocade.com=20
  &lt;mailto:jhufferd@brocade.com&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Office Phone: =
(408)=20
  333-5244; eFAX: (408) 904-4688<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Alt Office Phone: (408) =

  997-6136; Cell: (408) 627-9606<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &nbsp;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;=20
  =
------------------------------------------------------------------------<=
BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;=20
  *From:* Mallikarjun C. [mailto:cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com]<BR>&gt; =
*Sent:*=20
  Friday, January 05, 2007 10:08 AM<BR>&gt; *To:* ips@ietf.org<BR>&gt;=20
  *Subject:* Re: [Ips] Response Fence Flag<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;=20
  &nbsp;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Not really. &nbsp;Current draft text is =
intentionally=20
  written to not have <BR>&gt; any dependencies on T10 dynamics. =
&nbsp;The point=20
  is that iSCSI needs such <BR>&gt; a notion for succinctly describing =
the=20
  proper iSCSI protocol actions <BR>&gt; in a few places - ACA, TMF, =
Persistent=20
  reserve/Abort to name a few. &nbsp;<BR>&gt; We certainly hope it will =
be=20
  approved by T10 and be a part of SAM-4 <BR>&gt; soon, but that isn't =
required=20
  per se for describing what iSCSI needs <BR>&gt; for its correct=20
  behavior.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &nbsp;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; IPS WG has adopted =
what it=20
  needs in the past - staying ahead of T10 <BR>&gt; review/approval =
cycle if=20
  necessary. &nbsp;I_T nexus loss notification, <BR>&gt; iSCSI =
target/port=20
  naming, clearing effects are a few I recall.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;=20
  &nbsp;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Mallikarjun<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;=20
  &nbsp;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; ----- Original Message ----<BR>&gt; From: Eddy=20
  Quicksall &lt;Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net&gt;<BR>&gt; To: Robert =
Snively=20
  &lt;rsnively@Brocade.COM&gt;; "Elliott, Robert (Server <BR>&gt; =
Storage)"=20
  &lt;Elliott@hp.com&gt;; ips@ietf.org<BR>&gt; Sent: Friday, January 5, =
2007=20
  8:58:47 AM<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: [Ips] Response Fence =
Flag<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; From=20
  an earlier email I think that Response Fence is only a proposal =
<BR>&gt; in=20
  T10 (http://www.t10.org:80/doc06.htm <BR>&gt;=20
  &lt;http://www.t10.org/doc06.htm&gt;). If so shouldn't iSCSI wait a =
bit=20
  <BR>&gt; until this has been ratified?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; =
&nbsp;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;=20
  Eddy<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;=20
  __________________________________________________<BR>&gt; Do You=20
  Yahoo!?<BR>&gt; Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam =
protection=20
  around<BR>&gt; http://mail.yahoo.com<BR>&gt;=20
  =
------------------------------------------------------------------------<=
BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;=20
  _______________________________________________<BR>&gt; Ips mailing=20
  list<BR>&gt; Ips@ietf.org<BR>&gt;=20
  https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ips<BR>&gt; &nbsp;=20
  =
<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>_________________________________________________=
_<BR>Do=20
  You Yahoo!?<BR>Tired of spam? &nbsp;Yahoo! Mail has the best spam =
protection=20
  around <BR>http://mail.yahoo.com=20
  <BR><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>Ips mailing =

  =
list<BR>Ips@ietf.org<BR>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ips</FONT>=
</TT><FONT=20
  size=3D3><BR></FONT>
  <P>
  <HR>

  <P><FONT =
size=3D3>_______________________________________________<BR>Ips mailing=20
  =
list<BR>Ips@ietf.org<BR>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ips</FONT>=
=20
  <P></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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_______________________________________________
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https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ips

--===============1836893460==--





From ips-bounces@ietf.org Mon Jan 08 10:21:07 2007
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From: "RAM SUNEE" <ram_sunee@yahoo.com>
To: <ips@ietf.org>
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 07:20:21 -0800
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Subject: [Ips] Device Identification VPD Page for iSCSI Targets
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All,

Can anyone please clarify me regarding, Device Identification VPD usage for
iSCSI Target.
What values should an iSCSI Target use for PROTOCOL_IDENTIFIER, ASSOCIATION
fields of Device Identification VPD response page.
I have noticed that iSCSI Targets are reportng to Initiators as "SCSI Disk
Device",is it correct behavior?
Isn't it supposed to be that iSCSI Target needs to report to Initiator as
"iSCSI Disk Device"

-RAM



_______________________________________________
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Ips@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ips



From ips-bounces@ietf.org Mon Jan 08 11:05:39 2007
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From: "Eddy Quicksall" <Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net>
To: "RAM SUNEE" <ram_sunee@yahoo.com>,
	<ips@ietf.org>
References: <CNEFIHOJEFILAAHLEOBIIEOKDEAA.ram_sunee@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ips] Device Identification VPD Page for iSCSI Targets
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 11:05:29 -0500
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Referring to Table 296 of spc4r07a it seems the value should be 5 meaning 
iSCSI.

Eddy

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "RAM SUNEE" <ram_sunee@yahoo.com>
To: <ips@ietf.org>
Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 10:20 AM
Subject: [Ips] Device Identification VPD Page for iSCSI Targets


> All,
>
> Can anyone please clarify me regarding, Device Identification VPD usage 
> for
> iSCSI Target.
> What values should an iSCSI Target use for PROTOCOL_IDENTIFIER, 
> ASSOCIATION
> fields of Device Identification VPD response page.
> I have noticed that iSCSI Targets are reportng to Initiators as "SCSI Disk
> Device",is it correct behavior?
> Isn't it supposed to be that iSCSI Target needs to report to Initiator as
> "iSCSI Disk Device"
>
> -RAM
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ips mailing list
> Ips@ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ips
> 


_______________________________________________
Ips mailing list
Ips@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ips



From ips-bounces@ietf.org Mon Jan 08 11:16:43 2007
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Subject: RE: [Ips] Device Identification VPD Page for iSCSI Targets
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 10:11:16 -0600
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Thread-Topic: [Ips] Device Identification VPD Page for iSCSI Targets
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From: <Jacob_Cherian@Dell.com>
To: <Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net>,
	<ram_sunee@yahoo.com>,
	<ips@ietf.org>
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The PROTOCOL_IDENTIFIER should be 5h if the identifier in the descriptor
is an iSCSI protocol specific identifier.

Thanks,
=20
Jacob Cherian
Dell Inc.
Ph: (512) 723 3247


-----Original Message-----
From: Eddy Quicksall [mailto:Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net]=20
Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 10:05 AM
To: RAM SUNEE; ips@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Ips] Device Identification VPD Page for iSCSI Targets

Referring to Table 296 of spc4r07a it seems the value should be 5
meaning=20
iSCSI.

Eddy

----- Original Message -----=20
From: "RAM SUNEE" <ram_sunee@yahoo.com>
To: <ips@ietf.org>
Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 10:20 AM
Subject: [Ips] Device Identification VPD Page for iSCSI Targets


> All,
>
> Can anyone please clarify me regarding, Device Identification VPD
usage=20
> for
> iSCSI Target.
> What values should an iSCSI Target use for PROTOCOL_IDENTIFIER,=20
> ASSOCIATION
> fields of Device Identification VPD response page.
> I have noticed that iSCSI Targets are reportng to Initiators as "SCSI
Disk
> Device",is it correct behavior?
> Isn't it supposed to be that iSCSI Target needs to report to Initiator
as
> "iSCSI Disk Device"
>
> -RAM
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ips mailing list
> Ips@ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ips
>=20


_______________________________________________
Ips mailing list
Ips@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ips

_______________________________________________
Ips mailing list
Ips@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ips



From year@oncologia.com.br Mon Jan 08 12:05:34 2007
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From:	"or old" <year@oncologia.com.br>
To: ips-archive@lists.ietf.org
Subject: longer doeeyed
Date:	Mon, 8 Jan 2007 18:05:06 +0100
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><IMG alt=3D"mehellipI" hspace=3D0=20
src=3D"cid:000501c73347$251f6ea0$86e9b454@Paule" align=3Dbaseline=20
border=3D0></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DTimes New Roman color=3D#5AAD8A size=3D2>Iraq plan =
odor worries workers!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DTimes New Roman color=3D#5AAD8A size=3D2>Our biggest =
worldwide=20
artists we remain percent committed. Road to redemption january =
local?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DTimes New Roman color=3D#5AAD8A size=3D2>Today reached =
out through,=20
web site with.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DTimes New Roman color=3D#5AAD8A size=3D2>Itself wake =
shattered=20
despite persistent? Road to redemption january local and weather amp =
morning.=20
See same way ishiatt cited shutting down popular fan.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DTimes New Roman color=3D#5AAD8A size=3D2>Really good, =
being, see=20
same way ishiatt, cited shutting.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DTimes New Roman color=3D#5AAD8A size=3D2>Artists we =
remain, percent=20
committed. Its, former golden child asserts. Terms, use privacy =
policyyour,=20
california rights external.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DTimes New Roman color=3D#5AAD8A size=3D2>Theres some =
kind event=20
chances heights was at!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DTimes New Roman color=3D#5AAD8A size=3D2>Fine said =
continues our=20
biggest, worldwide artists.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DTimes New Roman color=3D#5AAD8A size=3D2>Of flashes =
privates gets=20
press months?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DTimes New Roman color=3D#5AAD8A size=3D2>Kind event, =
chances,=20
heights, was at. As mousketeer fledgling pop star leaving =
west.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DTimes New Roman color=3D#5AAD8A size=3D2>Bigger better =
than ever=20
also! Rss, headlines bush announce?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DTimes New Roman color=3D#5AAD8A size=3D2>Recording, =
sessions might,=20
drop its former, golden child asserts. Half yearclean belt industry =
experts=20
support, quality may irrelevant! Across nycwhite house wants, khalilzad =
un. Plan=20
odor worries workers. Saying last couple been, quite.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DTimes New Roman color=3D#5AAD8A size=3D2>So many women =
go for.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DTimes New Roman color=3D#5AAD8A size=3D2>Why do so, =
many women go=20
for bad boysspears. Being see same, way ishiatt cited =
shutting.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DTimes New Roman color=3D#5AAD8A size=3D2>Excited, =
about releasing=20
second half! Yearclean belt industry experts, support quality. Tory =
johnson how=20
fun parents, allegedly. Finally look forward coming this, year bigger =
better than.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DTimes New Roman color=3D#5AAD8A size=3D2>Spears will =
have work hard.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DTimes New Roman color=3D#5AAD8A size=3D2>Sent tory =
johnson how fun=20
parents allegedly kidnapped.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DTimes New Roman color=3D#5AAD8A size=3D2>Associate, =
editor brian=20
hiatt thinks musical genius but used.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DTimes New Roman color=3D#5AAD8A size=3D2>Repulsed =
spears will have=20
work hard revive career.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DTimes New Roman color=3D#5AAD8A size=3D2>Fun parents =
allegedly=20
kidnapped, bride regret their deaths. West hollywood restaurant jan =
looked=20
bloated. Web site with statement saying last couple. Help info terms =
use.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DTimes New Roman color=3D#5AAD8A size=3D2>Some kind =
event, chances,=20
heights was at.</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From ips-bounces@ietf.org Mon Jan 08 15:21:51 2007
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Subject: RE: [Ips] Response Fence Flag
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Mallikarjun,

OK, so I would like us to first cover Topic A (your case 1).

As I understand it you are trying to make TMC and ACA operate correctly
on a MC/S Session. =20

=20

And, if I understand your Slide 5, et.al. correctly then the iSCSI code
can ASSUME a Fence has been issued for all TM and ACA operations and
react as you have specified.  In that specific case there is no need for
Fence parameter in the Target SCSI to iSCSI interaction (at least at
this time).

=20

So if that is the case, then for all current operations we are covered
without additional Target SCSI parameters.  Is that correct?

=20

Now when you use the words Third Party Session, I believe that could
mean Session that are iSCSI or Non iSCSI (e.g. Fibre Channel), I also
think it could include iSCSI Sessions on other portal groups connected
to the same Target.=20

=20

The thing that is concerning me is that some of the words which are
included in the document do not factor in the fact that any specific
iSCSI Target portal group may not have a clue about what is happening at
another iSCSI Target portal group, or at a Fibre Channel portal that may
also be attached to the same Target/LUN.

=20

The way I read your document, I thought that it implied that the iSCSI
Transport would know about things that are happening on other Portal
Groups that may be iSCSI or some other Transport technology.

=20

For instance in section 4.1.3.a (under the Target iSCSI Layer) you state
"...SHOULD NOT wait for new commands on third-party affected sessions -
only the instantiated tasks have to be considered for the purpose of
determining the affected tasks."  Other than the fact that it does not
matter what the other Session do, since you ignore it, the thought
pattern is that you will know that you are ignoring it.
=20
Also in section 4.1.3 d (under the Target iSCSI layer) you state
"...MUST generate an Asynchronous Message PDU with AsyncEvent=3D5 =
(section
8.1) on:=20
          i) each connection of each third-party session that at=20
            least one affected task is allegiant to, and=20
          ii) each connection except the non-issuing connection of the=20
            issuing session that has at least one allegiant affected=20
            task. "
=20
I think that implies that one iSCSI portal group has knowledge of what
is happening in other portal groups, and that extends to other
Technology attachments such as Fibre Channel.
=20
If you are stating that it is up to the target SCSI layer to issue the
"Fence parameter" appropriately such that the effect is what you stated
in 4.1.3 (under the Target iSCSI Layer) then I might feel that I am
coming closer to understanding your point.
=20
Otherwise, I just do not see how that is practical since even the iSCSI
target portal groups may be implemented in separate iSCSI Offload
Adapters.  And I really do not know how they will know what is happening
on the Fibre Channel connections.=20

=20

When I combine the above thought with the statements that were made by
Robert Snively, which in effect states that all the actions and
responses arrivals are not predictable (at least across different
Sessions), that seems to me to mean that the appearance of UAs, caused
by another Session, may occur at any time with relation to what is going
on at any other Session.  Therefore, I can not yet grasp the need for
ordering Asynchronous Messages among the MC/S connections.  I am trying
to see what the initiator surprise will be, and why that will cause a
problem, if the Asynchronous Messages occur in some undefined order.
However, at this time I am left with an unease that not only are some of
the above document statements not implementable, I am wondering it they
are even important.

=20

Hopefully, you can understand my dilemma on understanding what you are
proposing, and can explain what I am missing.

=20

.

.

.

John L Hufferd

Sr. Executive Director of Technology

Brocade Communications Systems, Inc

jhufferd@brocade.com

Office Phone: (408) 333-5244; eFAX: (408) 904-4688

Alt Office Phone: (408) 997-6136; Cell: (408) 627-9606

=20

________________________________

From: Mallikarjun C. [mailto:cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com]=20
Sent: Friday, January 05, 2007 2:45 PM
To: IPS
Subject: Fw: [Ips] Response Fence Flag

=20

Trying again after bouncing (>50KB), tail is now clipped....

----- Forwarded Message ----
From: Mallikarjun C. <cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com>
To: ips@ietf.org
Sent: Friday, January 5, 2007 2:40:56 PM
Subject: Re: [Ips] Response Fence Flag

Hi John,

=20

As you correctly point out, there are two distinct but related topics
here.

=20

(1) proper response ordering across participating connections in a
multi-connection session, for a handful of task/TMF responses

(2) proper way to terminate and signal tasks when actions on one session
can impact multiple initiators

=20

(1) is all about response fence, it is covered separately in section 3.3
of IG draft.  That's what this email thread started off with.

=20

(2) covers cases that IG had called as as "multi-task abort" cases that
typically have a shared task set across sessions, or are the result of a
Logical Unit Reset TMF.  Section 4.1 of IG adresses (2).

=20

So how are (1) and (2) related?

=20

- Some cases covered under (2) overlap with (1), but some cases in (2)
are for single connection sessions.  E.g. LU Reset on a single
connection session impacting several 3rd party sessions

=20

- Some cases under (1) overlap with (2), but some cases in (1) have
nothing to do with other sessions.  E.g. establishment of ACA on a
non-shared task set

=20

- Section 4.1 (i.e. text for (2)) uses response fence (i.e. text for
(1)) whenever multi-connection sessions are involved in multi-task abort
situations.

=20

I hope that clarifies it.  Feel free to ask if that is not clear.  The
net is that the response fence is the underpinning notion to describe
the correct iSCSI behavior in a few cases and some of those cases are
about task terminations across third-party sessions.

=20

Mallikarjun

=20



=20

----- Original Message ----
From: John Hufferd <jhufferd@Brocade.COM>
To: Mallikarjun C. <cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com>; ips@ietf.org
Sent: Friday, January 5, 2007 1:01:06 PM
Subject: RE: [Ips] Response Fence Flag

Mallikarjun,

I must admit, that I have been a bit confused with the direction of the
conversation here.

=20

Therefore, I went back and reviewed the charts from Dallas .  And as I
remembered, the initial focus was to address the issue of Multiple
Connections per Session (MC/S) (as stated on chart 4 - "Non-issue for
single-connection iSCSI sessions").  So I think I have missed the step
where we have morphed the discussion into one dealing with multiple
sessions.  (I am not sure how that happened, or if I miss-read the
charts from Dallas , or have not followed the discussion adequately.)

=20

If we are attempting to define two different issues, one with MC/S and
one with Multiple Session from different Initiators, I think it would be
useful to break down the conversation into Topic A - MC/S and Topic B
Multiple Sessions.  It is possible that one solution will addresses
both, but I for one think I am hearing arguments that might be
appropriate for Topic B, while I am thinking about its applicability to
Topic A.

=20

Perhaps, you could address the issue as either being all about MC/S or
explicitly state that it is intended to affect Multiple Sessions also,
and then address the issues and solution for each separately.  For
example, I believe Robert was addressing the issue from a view of
Multiple Sessions and if we only intended to address MC/S then I expect
the response might be somewhat different.

=20

Anyway, if you could clear-up some of this, I think it would be useful
(at least to me).

=20

.

.

.

John L Hufferd

Sr. Executive Director of Technology

Brocade Communications Systems, Inc

jhufferd@brocade.com

Office Phone: (408) 333-5244; eFAX: (408) 904-4688

Alt Office Phone: (408) 997-6136; Cell: (408) 627-9606

=20

________________________________

From: Mallikarjun C. [mailto:cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com]=20
Sent: Friday, January 05, 2007 10:08 AM
To: ips@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Ips] Response Fence Flag

=20

Not really.  Current draft text is intentionally written to not have any
dependencies on T10 dynamics.  The point is that iSCSI needs such a
notion for succinctly describing the proper iSCSI protocol actions in a
few places - ACA, TMF, Persistent reserve/Abort to name a few.  We
certainly hope it will be approved by T10 and be a part of SAM-4 soon,
but that isn't required per se for describing what iSCSI needs for its
correct behavior.

=20

IPS WG has adopted what it needs in the past - staying ahead of T10
review/approval cycle if necessary.  I_T nexus loss notification, iSCSI
target/port naming, clearing effects are a few I recall.

=20

Mallikarjun



=20

----- Original Message ----
From: Eddy Quicksall <Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net>
To: Robert Snively <rsnively@Brocade.COM>; "Elliott, Robert (Server
Storage)" <Elliott@hp.com>; ips@ietf.org
Sent: Friday, January 5, 2007 8:58:47 AM
Subject: Re: [Ips] Response Fence Flag

>From an earlier email I think that Response Fence is only a proposal in
T10 (http://www.t10.org:80/doc06.htm <http://www.t10.org/doc06.htm> ).
If so shouldn't iSCSI wait a bit until this has been ratified?

=20

Eddy


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around=20
http://mail.yahoo.com=20


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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Mallikarjun,<o:p></o:p></span></font=
></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>OK, so I would like us to first =
cover Topic
A (your case 1).<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>As I understand it you are trying =
to make
TMC and ACA operate correctly on a MC/S Session. =
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>And, if I understand your Slide 5, =
et.al.
correctly then the iSCSI code can ASSUME a Fence has been issued for all =
TM and
ACA operations and react as you have specified. &nbsp;In that specific =
case
there is no need for Fence parameter in the Target SCSI to iSCSI =
interaction
(at least at this time).<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>So if that is the case, then for =
all current
operations we are covered without additional Target SCSI =
parameters.&nbsp; Is that
correct?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Now when you use the words Third =
Party
Session, I believe that could mean Session that are iSCSI or Non iSCSI =
(e.g. Fibre
Channel), I also think it could include iSCSI Sessions on other portal =
groups
connected to the same Target. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>The thing that is concerning me is =
that some
of the words which are included in the document do not factor in the =
fact that
any specific iSCSI Target portal group may not have a clue about what is
happening at another iSCSI Target portal group, or at a Fibre Channel =
portal
that may also be attached to the same =
Target/LUN.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>The way I read your document, I =
thought
that it implied that the iSCSI Transport would know about things that =
are
happening on other Portal Groups that may be iSCSI or some other =
Transport
technology.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<pre><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:navy'>For instance in section 4.1.3.a (under the =
Target iSCSI Layer) you state &#8220;&#8230;</span></font>SHOULD NOT =
wait for new commands on third-party affected sessions - only the =
instantiated tasks have to be considered for the purpose of determining =
the affected tasks.<font
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&#8220; &nbsp;Other than the fact =
that it does not matter what the other Session do, since you ignore it, =
the thought pattern is that you will know that you are ignoring =
it.<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Also in section =
4.1.3 d (under the Target iSCSI layer) you state =
&#8220;&#8230;</span></font>MUST generate an Asynchronous Message PDU =
with AsyncEvent=3D5 (section 8.1) on: <o:p></o:p></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;i) each connection of each third-party session that at =
<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;least one affected task is allegiant to, and =
<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;ii) each connection except the non-issuing connection of =
the <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;issuing session that has at least one =
allegiant affected <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;task. </span></font><font
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&#8220;<o:p></o:p></span></font></=
pre><pre><font
size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I think that =
implies that one iSCSI portal group has knowledge of what is happening =
in other portal groups, and that extends to other Technology attachments =
such as Fibre Channel.<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>If you are =
stating that it is up to the target SCSI layer to issue the &#8220;Fence =
parameter&#8221; appropriately such that the effect is what you stated =
in 4.1.3 (under the Target iSCSI Layer) then I might feel that I am =
coming closer to understanding your =
point.<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Otherwise, I =
just do not see how that is practical since even the iSCSI target portal =
groups may be implemented in separate iSCSI Offload Adapters.&nbsp; And =
I really do not know how they will know what is happening on the Fibre =
Channel connections. </span></font><o:p></o:p></pre>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<pre><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:navy'>When I combine the above thought with the =
statements that were made by <st1:PersonName
w:st=3D"on">Robert Snively</st1:PersonName>, which in effect states that =
all the actions and responses arrivals are not predictable (at least =
across different Sessions), that seems to me to mean that the appearance =
of UAs, caused by another Session, may occur at any time with relation =
to what is going on at any other Session.&nbsp; Therefore, I can not yet =
grasp the need for ordering Asynchronous Messages among the MC/S =
connections.&nbsp; I am trying to see what the initiator surprise will =
be, and why that will cause a problem, if the Asynchronous Messages =
occur in some undefined order. &nbsp;However, at this time I am left =
with an unease that not only are some of the above document statements =
not implementable, I am wondering it they are even =
important.</span></font><o:p></o:p></pre>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Hopefully, you can understand my =
dilemma
on understanding what you are proposing, and can explain what I am =
missing.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>.</span></font><font =
color=3Dnavy><span
style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>.</span></font><font =
color=3Dnavy><span
style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>.</span></font><font =
color=3Dnavy><span
style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>John L Hufferd</span></font><font
color=3Dnavy><span style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>Sr. Executive Director of =
Technology</span></font><font
color=3Dnavy><span style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>Brocade Communications Systems, =
Inc</span></font><font
color=3Dnavy><span style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'><a =
href=3D"mailto:jhufferd@brocade.com"
title=3D"mailto:jhufferd@brocade.com">jhufferd@brocade.com</a></span></fo=
nt><font
color=3Dnavy><span style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>Office Phone: (408) 333-5244; =
eFAX: (408) 904-4688</span></font><font
color=3Dnavy><span style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>Alt Office Phone: (408) 997-6136; =
Cell:
(408) 627-9606</span></font><font color=3Dnavy><span =
style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font =
size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>

<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font =
size=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> =
Mallikarjun C.
[mailto:cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com] <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Friday, January 05, =
2007
2:45 PM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> IPS<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Fw: [Ips] =
Response Fence
Flag</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Trying again =
after
bouncing (&gt;50KB), tail is now =
clipped....<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>----- =
Forwarded Message
----<br>
From: Mallikarjun C. &lt;cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com&gt;<br>
To: ips@ietf.org<br>
Sent: Friday, January 5, 2007 2:40:56 PM<br>
Subject: Re: [Ips] Response Fence Flag<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>Hi John,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>As you correctly point out, there are two distinct but related
topics&nbsp;here.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>(1) proper response ordering across participating connections in =
a
multi-connection session, for a handful of task/TMF =
responses<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>(2) proper way to terminate and signal&nbsp;tasks when actions =
on one
session can impact multiple initiators<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>(1) is all about response fence, it is covered separately in =
section
3.3 of IG draft.&nbsp; That's what this email thread started off =
with.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>(2)&nbsp;covers cases that IG had called as&nbsp;as =
&quot;multi-task
abort&quot; cases that typically have a shared task set across sessions, =
or are
the result of a Logical Unit Reset TMF.&nbsp; Section 4.1 of IG adresses =
(2).<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>So how are (1) and (2) related?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>- Some cases covered under (2) overlap with&nbsp;(1), but some =
cases in
(2) are for single connection sessions.&nbsp; E.g. LU Reset on a single
connection session impacting several 3rd party =
sessions<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>- Some cases under (1) overlap with (2), but some cases in (1) =
have
nothing to do with other sessions.&nbsp; E.g. establishment of ACA on a
non-shared task set<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>- Section 4.1&nbsp;(i.e. text for (2)) uses response =
fence&nbsp;(i.e.
text for (1)) whenever multi-connection sessions are involved in =
multi-task
abort situations.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>I hope that clarifies it.&nbsp; Feel free to ask if that is not
clear.&nbsp; The net&nbsp;is that the response fence is the underpinning =
notion
to describe the correct iSCSI behavior in a few cases and some of those =
cases
are about task terminations across&nbsp;third-party =
sessions.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>Mallikarjun<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><br>
<br>
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>----- Original =
Message
----<br>
From: <st1:PersonName w:st=3D"on">John Hufferd</st1:PersonName> =
&lt;jhufferd@Brocade.COM&gt;<br>
To: Mallikarjun C. &lt;cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com&gt;; ips@ietf.org<br>
Sent: Friday, January 5, 2007 1:01:06 PM<br>
Subject: RE: [Ips] Response Fence Flag<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Mallikarjun,</span></font><o:p></o:p=
></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I must admit, that I have been a =
bit
confused with the direction of the conversation =
here.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Therefore, I went back and reviewed =
the
charts from <st1:City w:st=3D"on"><st1:place =
w:st=3D"on">Dallas</st1:place></st1:City>
. &nbsp;And as I remembered, the initial focus was to address the issue =
of
Multiple Connections per Session (MC/S) (as stated on chart 4 &#8211;
&#8220;Non-issue for single-connection iSCSI sessions&#8221;). &nbsp;So =
I think
I have missed the step where we have morphed the discussion into one =
dealing
with multiple sessions. &nbsp;(I am not sure how that happened, or if I
miss-read the charts from <st1:City w:st=3D"on"><st1:place =
w:st=3D"on">Dallas</st1:place></st1:City>
, or have not followed the discussion =
adequately.)</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>If we are attempting to define two
different issues, one with MC/S and one with Multiple Session from =
different
Initiators, I think it would be useful to break down the conversation =
into
Topic A &#8211; MC/S and Topic B Multiple Sessions. &nbsp;It is possible =
that
one solution will addresses both, but I for one think I am hearing =
arguments
that might be appropriate for Topic B, while I am thinking about its
applicability to Topic A.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Perhaps, you could address the =
issue as
either being all about MC/S or explicitly state that it is intended to =
affect
Multiple Sessions also, and then address the issues and solution for =
each
separately.&nbsp; For example, I believe Robert was addressing the issue =
from a
view of Multiple Sessions and if we only intended to address MC/S then I =
expect
the response might be somewhat different.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Anyway, if you could clear-up some =
of
this, I think it would be useful (at least to =
me).</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>John L =
Hufferd</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>Sr. Executive Director of =
Technology</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>Brocade Communications Systems, =
Inc</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'><a =
href=3D"mailto:jhufferd@brocade.com"
target=3D"_blank" =
title=3D"mailto:jhufferd@brocade.com">jhufferd@brocade.com</a></span></fo=
nt><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>Office Phone: (408) 333-5244; =
eFAX: (408)
904-4688</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>Alt Office Phone: (408) 997-6136; =
Cell:
(408) 627-9606</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<div>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font =
size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>

<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabIndex=3D-1>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font =
size=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> =
Mallikarjun C.
[mailto:cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com] <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Friday, January 05, =
2007
10:08 AM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> ips@ietf.org<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [Ips] =
Response Fence
Flag</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>Not really.&nbsp; Current draft text is intentionally written to =
not
have any dependencies on T10 dynamics.&nbsp; The point is that iSCSI =
needs such
a notion for succinctly describing the&nbsp;proper&nbsp;iSCSI protocol =
actions
in a few places - ACA, TMF, Persistent reserve/Abort to name a =
few.&nbsp; We
certainly hope it will be approved by T10 and be a part of SAM-4 soon,
but&nbsp;that isn't required per se for describing what iSCSI needs for =
its
correct behavior.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>IPS WG has adopted what it needs&nbsp;in the past&nbsp;- staying =
ahead
of T10 review/approval cycle if necessary.&nbsp; I_T nexus loss =
notification,
iSCSI target/port naming, clearing effects are a few I =
recall.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>Mallikarjun<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><br>
<br>
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>----- Original =
Message
----<br>
From: Eddy Quicksall &lt;Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net&gt;<br>
To: <st1:PersonName w:st=3D"on">Robert Snively</st1:PersonName>
&lt;rsnively@Brocade.COM&gt;; &quot;Elliott, Robert (Server =
Storage)&quot;
&lt;Elliott@hp.com&gt;; ips@ietf.org<br>
Sent: Friday, January 5, 2007 8:58:47 AM<br>
Subject: Re: [Ips] Response Fence Flag<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt'>From an earlier email I think&nbsp;that&nbsp;Response Fence is =
only a
proposal in T10 (<a href=3D"http://www.t10.org/doc06.htm" =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.t10.org:80/doc06.htm</a>).
If so shouldn't iSCSI wait a bit until this has been =
ratified?</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt'>Eddy</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

</div>

</div>

</div>

</div>

</div>

</div>

</div>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><br>
__________________________________________________<br>
Do You Yahoo!?<br>
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around <br>
http://mail.yahoo.com <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

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Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 17:20:51 -0800 (PST)
From: "Mallikarjun C." <cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ips] Response Fence Flag
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John,=0A=0AOn your topic A, section 3.3.3 lists the current list of respons=
e fence cases where the fence is "assumed" to be present.  So for the time =
being, iSCSI "knows" when to fence.  Further, note that reponse fence is li=
mited to *one I_T_L nexus* only - so by definition, there cannot be any cro=
ss-nexus ordering requirements out of a response fence, and not even cross =
I_T_L nexus linkages.=0A=0AOn your topic B, I can now see where some of the=
 confusion is - wherever we say "third-party session" in the draft, we mean=
 a "third-party iSCSI session" unless otherwise qualified.  I need to add a=
 sentence to that effect to the definition of "third-party" in section 1.1,=
 sorry about that ambiguity.  All verbiage that is meant for non-iSCSI I_T =
nexuses is clearly marked as such in the draft.  =0A=0AHow broad is the not=
ion of "third-party" - across portal groups? across transports? - is someth=
ing I cannot directly answer.  It is really a question of target design - I=
'd say whenever actions on an iSCSI session "affect" tasks (per definition =
of 4.1.1) on a different session, it is a third-party session for that acti=
on.  E.g., if one iSCSI target portal group (which is really a different I_=
T nexus from the issuing nexus) truly has no clue about a Clear Task Set on=
 the issuing iSCSI target portal group, then it must not have had a shared =
task set at the LU level, shared jointly between the two portal groups.  In=
 such a case, the first session is *not* a third-party session for the purp=
ose of Clear Task Set on the second session.  If OTOH, they *do* share a ta=
sk set at the SCSI LU level, then the first session becomes a third party s=
ession wrt the Clear Task Set on the second session per the intent of the d=
raft.  Note that there is absolutely nothing new in this draft about
 the functional requireements on third-party sessions.  Cross-nexus clearin=
g effects, UAs etc. are really SCSI territory.  The draft does not require =
any cross-portal group knowledge beyond what is required for 3720-compliant=
 implementations (in fact, this draft frees up the TTT linkage we had befor=
e) - the 4.1.3 text you quote can be implemented either with a shared SCSI =
LU task set (in which case the notion of "affected" has to be propagated vi=
a the SCSI layer), or with a completely offloaded SCSI+iSCSI portal group (=
in which case all third-party sessions are local to the hardware).  Again, =
I see no new issues here.=0A=0AThe Nop-Out Messages are "a lazy signal" for=
 a target to optimally cleanup any residual task state after the task was t=
erminated, therefore Async Messages and Nop-Out Messages again absoluly hav=
e no cross-nexus linkages (and Async+Nop-Out exchange, BTW, is not related =
to response fence as you may have already sensed, it is related to multi-ta=
sk abort handling).=0A=0AHope that clarifies some.  As always, feel free to=
 ask if not, or give me a call.=0A=0AThanks.=0A=0AMallikarjun=0A=0A=0A-----=
 Original Message ----=0AFrom: John Hufferd <jhufferd@Brocade.COM>=0ATo: Ma=
llikarjun C. <cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com>; IPS <ips@ietf.org>=0ASent: Monday,=
 January 8, 2007 12:21:32 PM=0ASubject: RE: [Ips] Response Fence Flag=0A=0A=
=0AMallikarjun,=0AOK, so I would like us to first cover Topic A (your case =
1).=0AAs I understand it you are trying to make TMC and ACA operate correct=
ly on a MC/S Session.  =0A =0AAnd, if I understand your Slide 5, et.al. cor=
rectly then the iSCSI code can ASSUME a Fence has been issued for all TM an=
d ACA operations and react as you have specified.  In that specific case th=
ere is no need for Fence parameter in the Target SCSI to iSCSI interaction =
(at least at this time).=0A =0ASo if that is the case, then for all current=
 operations we are covered without additional Target SCSI parameters.  Is t=
hat correct?=0A =0ANow when you use the words Third Party Session, I believ=
e that could mean Session that are iSCSI or Non iSCSI (e.g. Fibre Channel),=
 I also think it could include iSCSI Sessions on other portal groups connec=
ted to the same Target. =0A =0AThe thing that is concerning me is that some=
 of the words which are included in the document do not factor in the fact =
that any specific iSCSI Target portal group may not have a clue about what =
is happening at another iSCSI Target portal group, or at a Fibre Channel po=
rtal that may also be attached to the same Target/LUN.=0A =0AThe way I read=
 your document, I thought that it implied that the iSCSI Transport would kn=
ow about things that are happening on other Portal Groups that may be iSCSI=
 or some other Transport technology.=0A =0AFor instance in section 4.1.3.a =
(under the Target iSCSI Layer) you state =93=85SHOULD NOT wait for new comm=
ands on third-party affected sessions - only the instantiated tasks have to=
 be considered for the purpose of determining the affected tasks.=93  Other=
 than the fact that it does not matter what the other Session do, since you=
 ignore it, the thought pattern is that you will know that you are ignoring=
 it.=0A  =0AAlso in section 4.1.3 d (under the Target iSCSI layer) you stat=
e =93=85MUST generate an Asynchronous Message PDU with AsyncEvent=3D5 (sect=
ion 8.1) on: =0A          i) each connection of each third-party session th=
at at =0A            least one affected task is allegiant to, and =0A      =
    ii) each connection except the non-issuing connection of the =0A       =
     issuing session that has at least one allegiant affected =0A          =
  task. =93=0A  =0AI think that implies that one iSCSI portal group has kno=
wledge of what is happening in other portal groups, and that extends to oth=
er Technology attachments such as Fibre Channel.=0A  =0AIf you are stating =
that it is up to the target SCSI layer to issue the =93Fence parameter=94 a=
ppropriately such that the effect is what you stated in 4.1.3 (under the Ta=
rget iSCSI Layer) then I might feel that I am coming closer to understandin=
g your point.=0A  =0AOtherwise, I just do not see how that is practical sin=
ce even the iSCSI target portal groups may be implemented in separate iSCSI=
 Offload Adapters.  And I really do not know how they will know what is hap=
pening on the Fibre Channel connections. =0A =0AWhen I combine the above th=
ought with the statements that were made by=0A Robert Snively , which in ef=
fect states that all the actions and responses arrivals are not predictable=
 (at least across different Sessions), that seems to me to mean that the ap=
pearance of UAs, caused by another Session, may occur at any time with rela=
tion to what is going on at any other Session.  Therefore, I can not yet gr=
asp the need for ordering Asynchronous Messages among the MC/S connections.=
  I am trying to see what the initiator surprise will be, and why that will=
 cause a problem, if the Asynchronous Messages occur in some undefined orde=
r.  However, at this time I am left with an unease that not only are some o=
f the above document statements not implementable, I am wondering it they a=
re even important.=0A =0AHopefully, you can understand my dilemma on unders=
tanding what you are proposing, and can explain what I am missing.=0A =0A.=
=0A.=0A.=0AJohn L Hufferd=0ASr. Executive Director of Technology=0ABrocade =
Communications Systems, Inc=0Ajhufferd@brocade.com=0AOffice Phone: (408) 33=
3-5244; eFAX: (408) 904-4688=0AAlt Office Phone: (408) 997-6136; Cell: (408=
) 627-9606=0A =0A=0A=0A=0AFrom: Mallikarjun C. [mailto:cb_mallikarjun@yahoo=
.com] =0ASent: Friday, January 05, 2007 2:45 PM=0ATo: IPS=0ASubject: Fw: [I=
ps] Response Fence Flag=0A =0ATrying again after bouncing (>50KB), tail is =
now clipped....=0A----- Forwarded Message ----=0AFrom: Mallikarjun C. <cb_m=
allikarjun@yahoo.com>=0ATo: ips@ietf.org=0ASent: Friday, January 5, 2007 2:=
40:56 PM=0ASubject: Re: [Ips] Response Fence Flag=0AHi John,=0A =0AAs you c=
orrectly point out, there are two distinct but related topics here.=0A =0A(=
1) proper response ordering across participating connections in a multi-con=
nection session, for a handful of task/TMF responses=0A(2) proper way to te=
rminate and signal tasks when actions on one session can impact multiple in=
itiators=0A =0A(1) is all about response fence, it is covered separately in=
 section 3.3 of IG draft.  That's what this email thread started off with.=
=0A =0A(2) covers cases that IG had called as as "multi-task abort" cases t=
hat typically have a shared task set across sessions, or are the result of =
a Logical Unit Reset TMF.  Section 4.1 of IG adresses (2).=0A =0ASo how are=
 (1) and (2) related?=0A =0A- Some cases covered under (2) overlap with (1)=
, but some cases in (2) are for single connection sessions.  E.g. LU Reset =
on a single connection session impacting several 3rd party sessions=0A =0A-=
 Some cases under (1) overlap with (2), but some cases in (1) have nothing =
to do with other sessions.  E.g. establishment of ACA on a non-shared task =
set=0A =0A- Section 4.1 (i.e. text for (2)) uses response fence (i.e. text =
for (1)) whenever multi-connection sessions are involved in multi-task abor=
t situations.=0A =0AI hope that clarifies it.  Feel free to ask if that is =
not clear.  The net is that the response fence is the underpinning notion t=
o describe the correct iSCSI behavior in a few cases and some of those case=
s are about task terminations across third-party sessions.=0A =0AMallikarju=
n=0A =0A=0A=0A =0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: John Hufferd <jhuffer=
d@Brocade.COM>=0ATo: Mallikarjun C. <cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com>; ips@ietf.or=
g=0ASent: Friday, January 5, 2007 1:01:06 PM=0ASubject: RE: [Ips] Response =
Fence Flag=0AMallikarjun,=0AI must admit, that I have been a bit confused w=
ith the direction of the conversation here.=0A =0ATherefore, I went back an=
d reviewed the charts from Dallas .  And as I remembered, the initial focus=
 was to address the issue of Multiple Connections per Session (MC/S) (as st=
ated on chart 4 =96 =93Non-issue for single-connection iSCSI sessions=94). =
 So I think I have missed the step where we have morphed the discussion int=
o one dealing with multiple sessions.  (I am not sure how that happened, or=
 if I miss-read the charts from Dallas , or have not followed the discussio=
n adequately.)=0A =0AIf we are attempting to define two different issues, o=
ne with MC/S and one with Multiple Session from different Initiators, I thi=
nk it would be useful to break down the conversation into Topic A =96 MC/S =
and Topic B Multiple Sessions.  It is possible that one solution will addre=
sses both, but I for one think I am hearing arguments that might be appropr=
iate for Topic B, while I am thinking about its applicability to Topic A.=
=0A =0APerhaps, you could address the issue as either being all about MC/S =
or explicitly state that it is intended to affect Multiple Sessions also, a=
nd then address the issues and solution for each separately.  For example, =
I believe Robert was addressing the issue from a view of Multiple Sessions =
and if we only intended to address MC/S then I expect the response might be=
 somewhat different.=0A =0AAnyway, if you could clear-up some of this, I th=
ink it would be useful (at least to me).=0A =0A.=0A.=0A.=0AJohn L Hufferd=
=0ASr. Executive Director of Technology=0ABrocade Communications Systems, I=
nc=0Ajhufferd@brocade.com=0AOffice Phone: (408) 333-5244; eFAX: (408) 904-4=
688=0AAlt Office Phone: (408) 997-6136; Cell: (408) 627-9606=0A =0A=0A=0A=
=0AFrom: Mallikarjun C. [mailto:cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com] =0ASent: Friday, =
January 05, 2007 10:08 AM=0ATo: ips@ietf.org=0ASubject: Re: [Ips] Response =
Fence Flag=0A =0ANot really.  Current draft text is intentionally written t=
o not have any dependencies on T10 dynamics.  The point is that iSCSI needs=
 such a notion for succinctly describing the proper iSCSI protocol actions =
in a few places - ACA, TMF, Persistent reserve/Abort to name a few.  We cer=
tainly hope it will be approved by T10 and be a part of SAM-4 soon, but tha=
t isn't required per se for describing what iSCSI needs for its correct beh=
avior.=0A =0AIPS WG has adopted what it needs in the past - staying ahead o=
f T10 review/approval cycle if necessary.  I_T nexus loss notification, iSC=
SI target/port naming, clearing effects are a few I recall.=0A =0AMallikarj=
un=0A=0A=0A =0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: Eddy Quicksall <Quicksal=
l_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net>=0ATo: Robert Snively <rsnively@Brocade.COM>; "Elliot=
t, Robert (Server Storage)" <Elliott@hp.com>; ips@ietf.org=0ASent: Friday, =
January 5, 2007 8:58:47 AM=0ASubject: Re: [Ips] Response Fence Flag=0AFrom =
an earlier email I think that Response Fence is only a proposal in T10 (htt=
p://www.t10.org:80/doc06.htm). If so shouldn't iSCSI wait a bit until this =
has been ratified?=0A =0AEddy=0A=0A________________________________________=
__________=0ADo You Yahoo!?=0ATired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam =
protection around =0Ahttp://mail.yahoo.com=0A=0A___________________________=
_______________________=0ADo You Yahoo!?=0ATired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has =
the best spam protection around =0Ahttp://mail.yahoo.com 
--0-228294719-1168305651=:20862
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<html><head><style type=3D"text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;} --></style></he=
ad><body><div style=3D"font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;=
font-size:12pt"><DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman=
, new york, times, serif">John,</DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT=
-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif">=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZ=
E: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif">&nbsp;</DIV>=
=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, t=
imes, serif">On your topic A, section 3.3.3 lists the current list of respo=
nse fence cases where the fence is "assumed" to be present.&nbsp; So for th=
e time being, iSCSI "knows" when to fence.&nbsp; Further, note that reponse=
 fence is limited to *one I_T_L nexus* only - so by definition, there canno=
t be any cross-nexus ordering requirements out of a response fence, and not=
 even cross I_T_L nexus linkages.</DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FO=
NT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif">&nbsp;</DIV></DIV>=0A<D=
IV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times,=
 serif">On your topic B, I can now see where some of the confusion is - whe=
rever we say "third-party session" in the draft, we mean a "third-party iSC=
SI session" unless otherwise qualified.&nbsp; I need to add a sentence to t=
hat effect to the definition of "third-party" in section 1.1, sorry about t=
hat ambiguity.&nbsp; All verbiage that is meant for non-iSCSI I_T nexuses i=
s clearly marked as such in the draft.&nbsp; </DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SI=
ZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif">&nbsp;</DIV=
>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, =
times, serif">How broad is the notion of "third-party" - across portal grou=
ps? across transports? - is something I cannot directly answer.&nbsp; It is=
&nbsp;really a question of target design - I'd say whenever actions on an i=
SCSI session "affect" tasks (per definition of 4.1.1) on a different sessio=
n, it is a third-party session for that action.&nbsp; E.g., if one iSCSI ta=
rget portal group (which is really a different I_T nexus from the issuing n=
exus) truly has no clue about a Clear Task Set on the issuing iSCSI target =
portal group, then it must not have had a shared&nbsp;task set at the LU le=
vel, shared jointly between the two portal groups.&nbsp; In such a case, th=
e first session is&nbsp;*not* a third-party session for the purpose of Clea=
r Task Set on the second session.&nbsp; If OTOH, they *do* share a task set=
 at the SCSI LU level, then the first session becomes a third party session=
 wrt the Clear Task
 Set on the second session per the intent of the draft.&nbsp; Note that the=
re is absolutely nothing new in this draft about the functional requireemen=
ts on&nbsp;third-party sessions.&nbsp; Cross-nexus clearing effects, UAs et=
c. are really SCSI territory.&nbsp; The draft does not require any cross-po=
rtal group knowledge beyond what is required for 3720-compliant implementat=
ions (in fact, this draft frees up the TTT linkage we had before) - the 4.1=
.3 text you quote can be implemented either with a shared SCSI LU task set =
(in which case the notion of "affected" has to be propagated via the SCSI l=
ayer), or with a completely offloaded SCSI+iSCSI portal group (in which cas=
e all third-party sessions are local to the hardware).&nbsp;&nbsp;Again, I&=
nbsp;see no new issues here.</DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FA=
MILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif">&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D=
"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif">The=
 Nop-Out Messages are "a lazy signal" for a target to optimally cleanup any=
 residual task state after the task was terminated, therefore Async Message=
s and Nop-Out Messages again absoluly have no cross-nexus linkages (and Asy=
nc+Nop-Out exchange, BTW,&nbsp;is not related to response fence as you may =
have already sensed, it is related to multi-task abort handling).</DIV>=0A<=
DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times=
, serif">&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times n=
ew roman, new york, times, serif">Hope that clarifies some.&nbsp; As always=
, feel free to ask if not, or give me a call.</DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SI=
ZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif">&nbsp;</DIV=
>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, =
times, serif">Thanks.</DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: t=
imes new roman, new york, times, serif">&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-S=
IZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif">Mallikarju=
n<BR><BR></DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new rom=
an, new york, times, serif">----- Original Message ----<BR>From: John Huffe=
rd &lt;jhufferd@Brocade.COM&gt;<BR>To: Mallikarjun C. &lt;cb_mallikarjun@ya=
hoo.com&gt;; IPS &lt;ips@ietf.org&gt;<BR>Sent: Monday, January 8, 2007 12:2=
1:32 PM<BR>Subject: RE: [Ips] Response Fence Flag<BR><BR>=0A<STYLE>=0A<!--=
=0A=0A_filtered {font-family:Tahoma;=0Apanose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}=0A_f=
iltered {=0Amargin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in;}=0A=0A _filtered {font-family=
:Tahoma;=0Apanose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}=0A/* Style Definitions */=0A p.M=
soNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal=0A=09{margin:0in;=0Amargin-bottom:.00=
01pt;=0Afont-size:12.0pt;=0Afont-family:"Times New Roman";}=0Aa:link, span.=
MsoHyperlink=0A=09{color:blue;=0Atext-decoration:underline;}=0Aa:visited, s=
pan.MsoHyperlinkFollowed=0A=09{color:blue;=0Atext-decoration:underline;}=0A=
p=0A=09{=0Amargin-right:0in;=0A=0Amargin-left:0in;=0Afont-size:12.0pt;=0Afo=
nt-family:"Times New Roman";}=0Apre=0A=09{margin:0in;=0Amargin-bottom:.0001=
pt;=0Afont-size:10.0pt;=0Afont-family:"Courier New";}=0Aspan.emailstyle18=
=0A=09{font-family:Arial;=0Acolor:navy;}=0Aspan.EmailStyle19=0A=09{=0Afont-=
family:Arial;=0Acolor:navy;}=0A _filtered {=0Amargin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.2=
5in;}=0Adiv.Section1=0A=09{}=0A-->=0A</STYLE>=0A=0A<DIV class=3DSection1>=
=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN styl=
e=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Mallikarjun,</SPAN><=
/FONT></P>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2>=
<SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">OK, so I w=
ould like us to first cover Topic A (your case 1).</SPAN></FONT></P>=0A<P c=
lass=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FO=
NT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">As I understand it you are =
trying to make TMC and ACA operate correctly on a MC/S Session. &nbsp;</SPA=
N></FONT></P>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=
=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&nbsp=
;</SPAN></FONT></P>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy =
size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">A=
nd, if I understand your Slide 5, et.al. correctly then the iSCSI code can =
ASSUME a Fence has been issued for all TM and ACA operations and react as y=
ou have specified. &nbsp;In that specific case there is no need for Fence p=
arameter in the Target SCSI to iSCSI interaction (at least at this time).</=
SPAN></FONT></P>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy siz=
e=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&nbs=
p;</SPAN></FONT></P>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy=
 size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">=
So if that is the case, then for all current operations we are covered with=
out additional Target SCSI parameters.&nbsp; Is that correct?</SPAN></FONT>=
</P>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN =
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&nbsp;</SPAN></F=
ONT></P>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><S=
PAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Now when you=
 use the words Third Party Session, I believe that could mean Session that =
are iSCSI or Non iSCSI (e.g. Fibre Channel), I also think it could include =
iSCSI Sessions on other portal groups connected to the same Target. </SPAN>=
</FONT></P>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2=
><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&nbsp;</S=
PAN></FONT></P>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=
=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">The t=
hing that is concerning me is that some of the words which are included in =
the document do not factor in the fact that any specific iSCSI Target porta=
l group may not have a clue about what is happening at another iSCSI Target=
 portal group, or at a Fibre Channel portal that may also be attached to th=
e same Target/LUN.</SPAN></FONT></P>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DAr=
ial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT=
-FAMILY: Arial">&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></P>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=
=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy;=
 FONT-FAMILY: Arial">The way I read your document, I thought that it implie=
d that the iSCSI Transport would know about things that are happening on ot=
her Portal Groups that may be iSCSI or some other Transport technology.</SP=
AN></FONT></P>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=
=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&nbsp=
;</SPAN></FONT></P><PRE><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN styl=
e=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">For instance in sect=
ion 4.1.3.a (under the Target iSCSI Layer) you state =93=85</SPAN></FONT>SH=
OULD NOT wait for new commands on third-party affected sessions - only the =
instantiated tasks have to be considered for the purpose of determining the=
 affected tasks.<FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: navy;=
 FONT-FAMILY: Arial">=93 &nbsp;Other than the fact that it does not matter =
what the other Session do, since you ignore it, the thought pattern is that=
 you will know that you are ignoring it.</SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face=
=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy;=
 FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> &nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face=3DArial col=
or=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy;
 FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Also in section 4.1.3 d (under the Target iSCSI layer)=
 you state =93=85</SPAN></FONT>MUST generate an Asynchronous Message PDU wi=
th AsyncEvent=3D5 (section 8.1) on: </PRE><PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New" s=
ize=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;i) each connection of each third-party session tha=
t at </SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN sty=
le=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;least one affected task is allegiant to, and </SPAN></F=
ONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE=
: 10pt">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;ii) eac=
h connection except the non-issuing connection of the </SPAN></FONT></PRE><=
PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;issuin=
g session that has at least one
 allegiant affected </SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New" siz=
e=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;task. </SPAN></FONT><FONT face=3DArial c=
olor=3Dnavy><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">=93</SPAN></FON=
T></PRE><PRE><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-S=
IZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> &nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE=
><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; C=
OLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I think that implies that one iSCSI portal =
group has knowledge of what is happening in other portal groups, and that e=
xtends to other Technology attachments such as Fibre Channel.</SPAN></FONT>=
</PRE><PRE><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZ=
E: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> &nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><=
FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COL=
OR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">If you are stating that it
 is up to the target SCSI layer to issue the =93Fence parameter=94 appropri=
ately such that the effect is what you stated in 4.1.3 (under the Target iS=
CSI Layer) then I might feel that I am coming closer to understanding your =
point.</SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SP=
AN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> &nbsp;</SPAN=
></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"=
FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Otherwise, I just do not =
see how that is practical since even the iSCSI target portal groups may be =
implemented in separate iSCSI Offload Adapters.&nbsp; And I really do not k=
now how they will know what is happening on the Fibre Channel connections. =
</SPAN></FONT></PRE>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy=
 size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">=
&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></P><PRE><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">When I combine =
the above thought with the statements that were made by=0A Robert Snively ,=
 which in effect states that all the actions and responses arrivals are not=
 predictable (at least across different Sessions), that seems to me to mean=
 that the appearance of UAs, caused by another Session, may occur at any ti=
me with relation to what is going on at any other Session.&nbsp; Therefore,=
 I can not yet grasp the need for ordering Asynchronous Messages among the =
MC/S connections.&nbsp; I am trying to see what the initiator surprise will=
 be, and why that will cause a problem, if the Asynchronous Messages occur =
in some undefined order. &nbsp;However, at this time I am left with an unea=
se that not only are some of the above document statements not implementabl=
e, I am wondering it they are even important.</SPAN></FONT></PRE>=0A<P clas=
s=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-=
SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></P>=0A<P =
class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"F=
ONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Hopefully, you can underst=
and my dilemma on understanding what you are proposing, and can explain wha=
t I am missing.</SPAN></FONT></P>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial=
 color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FA=
MILY: Arial">&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></P>=0A<DIV>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT =
face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10=
pt; COLOR: navy">.</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3Dnavy><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: na=
vy"></SPAN></FONT></P>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman=
" color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy">.</SPA=
N></FONT><FONT color=3Dnavy><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: navy"></SPAN></FONT></P>=
=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3Dnavy size=3D=
2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy">.</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=
=3Dnavy><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: navy"></SPAN></FONT></P>=0A<P class=3DMsoNorm=
al><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT=
-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy">John L Hufferd</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3Dnavy><S=
PAN style=3D"COLOR: navy"></SPAN></FONT></P>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT f=
ace=3D"Times New Roman" color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10p=
t; COLOR: navy">Sr. Executive Director of Technology</SPAN></FONT><FONT col=
or=3Dnavy><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: navy"></SPAN></FONT></P>=0A<P class=3DMsoNo=
rmal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FO=
NT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy">Brocade Communications Systems, Inc</SPAN></FON=
T><FONT color=3Dnavy><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: navy"></SPAN></FONT></P>=0A<P cl=
ass=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN =
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy"><A title=3Dmailto:jhufferd@brocade.c=
om href=3D"mailto:jhufferd@brocade.com" target=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow>jhuf=
ferd@brocade.com</A></SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3Dnavy><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: =
navy"></SPAN></FONT></P>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Rom=
an" color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy">Offi=
ce Phone: (408) 333-5244; eFAX: (408) 904-4688</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3Dn=
avy><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: navy"></SPAN></FONT></P>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal><=
FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZ=
E: 10pt; COLOR: navy">Alt Office Phone: (408) 997-6136; Cell: (408) 627-960=
6</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3Dnavy><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: navy"></SPAN></FONT=
></P></DIV>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2=
><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&nbsp;</S=
PAN></FONT></P>=0A<DIV>=0A<DIV class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: cente=
r" align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FO=
NT-SIZE: 12pt">=0A<HR tabIndex=3D-1 align=3Dcenter width=3D"100%" SIZE=3D2>=
=0A</SPAN></FONT></DIV>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal><B><FONT face=3DTahoma size=
=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma=
">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-S=
IZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"> Mallikarjun C. [mailto:cb_mallikarjun@yaho=
o.com] <BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Friday, Ja=
nuary 05, 2007 2:45 PM<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></=
B> IPS<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Fw: [Ips=
] Response Fence Flag</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT =
face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">&nbsp;</S=
PAN></FONT></P>=0A<DIV>=0A<DIV>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-BOTT=
OM: 12pt"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE:=
 12pt">Trying again after bouncing (&gt;50KB), tail is now clipped....</SPA=
N></FONT></P>=0A<DIV>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt">=
<FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">---=
-- Forwarded Message ----<BR>From: Mallikarjun C. &lt;cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.=
com&gt;<BR>To: ips@ietf.org<BR>Sent: Friday, January 5, 2007 2:40:56 PM<BR>=
Subject: Re: [Ips] Response Fence Flag</SPAN></FONT></P>=0A<DIV>=0A<DIV>=0A=
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN style=3D=
"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Hi John,</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>=0A<DIV>=0A<P class=3DMso=
Normal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12=
pt">&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>=0A<DIV>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT fac=
e=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">As you corre=
ctly point out, there are two distinct but related topics&nbsp;here.</SPAN>=
</FONT></P></DIV>=0A<DIV>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Ro=
man" size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV=
>=0A<DIV>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><S=
PAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">(1) proper response ordering across participa=
ting connections in a multi-connection session, for a handful of task/TMF r=
esponses</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>=0A<DIV>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=
=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">(2) proper wa=
y to terminate and signal&nbsp;tasks when actions on one session can impact=
 multiple initiators</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>=0A<DIV>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal=
><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">&n=
bsp;</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>=0A<DIV>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"T=
imes New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">(1) is all about r=
esponse fence, it is covered separately in section 3.3 of IG draft.&nbsp; T=
hat's what this email thread started off with.</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>=0A<D=
IV>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN st=
yle=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>=0A<DIV>=0A<P class=
=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SI=
ZE: 12pt">(2)&nbsp;covers cases that IG had called as&nbsp;as "multi-task a=
bort" cases that typically have a shared task set across sessions, or are t=
he result of a Logical Unit Reset TMF.&nbsp; Section 4.1 of IG adresses (2)=
.</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>=0A<DIV>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Time=
s New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT><=
/P></DIV>=0A<DIV>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" siz=
e=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">So how are (1) and (2) related?</SPAN=
></FONT></P></DIV>=0A<DIV>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New R=
oman" size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></P></DI=
V>=0A<DIV>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><=
SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">- Some cases covered under (2) overlap with&=
nbsp;(1), but some cases in (2) are for single connection sessions.&nbsp; E=
.g. LU Reset on a single connection session impacting several 3rd party ses=
sions</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>=0A<DIV>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"=
Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">&nbsp;</SPAN></FO=
NT></P></DIV>=0A<DIV>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"=
 size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">- Some cases under (1) overlap wi=
th (2), but some cases in (1) have nothing to do with other sessions.&nbsp;=
 E.g. establishment of ACA on a non-shared task set</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>=
=0A<DIV>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SP=
AN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>=0A<DIV>=0A<P cl=
ass=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT=
-SIZE: 12pt">- Section 4.1&nbsp;(i.e. text for (2)) uses response fence&nbs=
p;(i.e. text for (1)) whenever multi-connection sessions are involved in mu=
lti-task abort situations.</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>=0A<DIV>=0A<P class=3DMso=
Normal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12=
pt">&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>=0A<DIV>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT fac=
e=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">I hope that =
clarifies it.&nbsp; Feel free to ask if that is not clear.&nbsp; The net&nb=
sp;is that the response fence is the underpinning notion to describe the co=
rrect iSCSI behavior in a few cases and some of those cases are about task =
terminations across&nbsp;third-party sessions.</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>=0A<D=
IV>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN st=
yle=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>=0A<DIV>=0A<P class=
=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SI=
ZE: 12pt">Mallikarjun</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>=0A<DIV>=0A<P class=3DMsoNorma=
l><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">&=
nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>=0A<DIV>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"=
Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><BR><BR>&nbsp;</S=
PAN></FONT></P></DIV>=0A<DIV>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM=
: 12pt"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 1=
2pt">----- Original Message ----<BR>From: John Hufferd &lt;jhufferd@Brocade=
.COM&gt;<BR>To: Mallikarjun C. &lt;cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com&gt;; ips@ietf.o=
rg<BR>Sent: Friday, January 5, 2007 1:01:06 PM<BR>Subject: RE: [Ips] Respon=
se Fence Flag</SPAN></FONT></P>=0A<DIV>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=
=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy;=
 FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Mallikarjun,</SPAN></FONT></P>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal>=
<FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; CO=
LOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I must admit, that I have been a bit confuse=
d with the direction of the conversation here.</SPAN></FONT></P>=0A<P class=
=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-S=
IZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></P>=0A<P c=
lass=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FO=
NT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Therefore, I went back and =
reviewed the charts from Dallas . &nbsp;And as I remembered, the initial fo=
cus was to address the issue of Multiple Connections per Session (MC/S) (as=
 stated on chart 4 =96 =93Non-issue for single-connection iSCSI sessions=94=
). &nbsp;So I think I have missed the step where we have morphed the discus=
sion into one dealing with multiple sessions. &nbsp;(I am not sure how that=
 happened, or if I miss-read the charts from Dallas , or have not followed =
the discussion adequately.)</SPAN></FONT></P>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT =
face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: n=
avy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></P>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal><F=
ONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLO=
R: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">If we are attempting to define two different i=
ssues, one with MC/S and one with Multiple Session from different Initiator=
s, I think it would be useful to break down the conversation into Topic A =
=96 MC/S and Topic B Multiple Sessions. &nbsp;It is possible that one solut=
ion will addresses both, but I for one think I am hearing arguments that mi=
ght be appropriate for Topic B, while I am thinking about its applicability=
 to Topic A.</SPAN></FONT></P>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial co=
lor=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMIL=
Y: Arial">&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></P>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DAria=
l color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-F=
AMILY: Arial">Perhaps, you could address the issue as either being all abou=
t MC/S or explicitly state that it is intended to affect Multiple Sessions =
also, and then address the issues and solution for each separately.&nbsp; F=
or example, I believe Robert was addressing the issue from a view of Multip=
le Sessions and if we only intended to address MC/S then I expect the respo=
nse might be somewhat different.</SPAN></FONT></P>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal><=
FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COL=
OR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></P>=0A<P class=3DMsoNorm=
al><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt;=
 COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Anyway, if you could clear-up some of thi=
s, I think it would be useful (at least to me).</SPAN></FONT></P>=0A<P clas=
s=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-=
SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></P>=0A<DI=
V>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3Dnavy size=
=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy">.</SPAN></FONT></P>=0A<P =
class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPA=
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l><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-=
SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy">John L Hufferd</SPAN></FONT></P>=0A<P class=3DMsoN=
ormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"F=
ONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy">Sr. Executive Director of Technology</SPAN></F=
ONT></P>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3Dnavy=
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ns Systems, Inc</SPAN></FONT></P>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Time=
s New Roman" color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: n=
avy"><A title=3Dmailto:jhufferd@brocade.com href=3D"mailto:jhufferd@brocade=
.com" target=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow>jhufferd@brocade.com</A></SPAN></FONT>=
</P>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3Dnavy siz=
e=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy">Office Phone: (408) 333-=
5244; eFAX: (408) 904-4688</SPAN></FONT></P>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT f=
ace=3D"Times New Roman" color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10p=
t; COLOR: navy">Alt Office Phone: (408) 997-6136; Cell: (408) 627-9606</SPA=
N></FONT></P></DIV>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy =
size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&=
nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></P>=0A<DIV>=0A<DIV class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIG=
N: center" align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN sty=
le=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">=0A<HR tabIndex=3D-1 align=3Dcenter width=3D"100%" S=
IZE=3D2>=0A</SPAN></FONT></DIV>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal><B><FONT face=3DTaho=
ma size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY:=
 Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><SPAN style=3D=
"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"> Mallikarjun C. [mailto:cb_mallikarj=
un@yahoo.com] <BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Fri=
day, January 05, 2007 10:08 AM<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:<=
/SPAN></B> ips@ietf.org<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</S=
PAN></B> Re: [Ips] Response Fence Flag</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>=0A<P class=
=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SI=
ZE: 12pt">&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></P>=0A<DIV>=0A<DIV>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal><=
FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Not =
really.&nbsp; Current draft text is intentionally written to not have any d=
ependencies on T10 dynamics.&nbsp; The point is that iSCSI needs such a not=
ion for succinctly describing the&nbsp;proper&nbsp;iSCSI protocol actions i=
n a few places - ACA, TMF, Persistent reserve/Abort to name a few.&nbsp; We=
 certainly hope it will be approved by T10 and be a part of SAM-4 soon, but=
&nbsp;that isn't required per se for describing what iSCSI needs for its co=
rrect behavior.</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>=0A<DIV>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal><FON=
T face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">&nbsp;<=
/SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>=0A<DIV>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">IPS WG has adopted what=
 it needs&nbsp;in the past&nbsp;- staying ahead of T10 review/approval cycl=
e if necessary.&nbsp; I_T nexus loss notification, iSCSI target/port naming=
, clearing effects are a few I recall.</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>=0A<DIV>=0A<P=
 class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"F=
ONT-SIZE: 12pt">&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>=0A<DIV>=0A<P class=3DMsoNorm=
al><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">=
Mallikarjun</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>=0A<DIV>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT fa=
ce=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><BR><BR>&nb=
sp;</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>=0A<DIV>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-=
BOTTOM: 12pt"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-S=
IZE: 12pt">----- Original Message ----<BR>From: Eddy Quicksall &lt;Quicksal=
l_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net&gt;<BR>To: Robert Snively &lt;rsnively@Brocade.COM&gt=
;; "Elliott, Robert (Server Storage)" &lt;Elliott@hp.com&gt;; ips@ietf.org<=
BR>Sent: Friday, January 5, 2007 8:58:47 AM<BR>Subject: Re: [Ips] Response =
Fence Flag</SPAN></FONT></P>=0A<DIV>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"T=
imes New Roman" size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From an earlier em=
ail I think&nbsp;that&nbsp;Response Fence is only a proposal in T10 (<A hre=
f=3D"http://www.t10.org/doc06.htm" target=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow>http://ww=
w.t10.org:80/doc06.htm</A>). If so shouldn't iSCSI wait a bit until this ha=
s been ratified?</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>=0A<DIV>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal><FO=
NT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">&nbsp;=
</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>=0A<DIV>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times=
 New Roman" size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Eddy</SPAN></FONT></P>=
</DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>=0A<P class=3DMsoNorm=
al><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">=
<BR>__________________________________________________<BR>Do You Yahoo!?<BR=
>Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around <BR>http://=
mail.yahoo.com </SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12=
pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif"><BR></DIV></div><=
br>__________________________________________________<br>Do You Yahoo!?<br>=
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around <br>http://=
mail.yahoo.com </body></html>
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From ips-bounces@ietf.org Mon Jan 08 20:31:04 2007
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Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 17:31:00 -0800
From: "Vishal Study" <vishal.study@gmail.com>
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Hello:

I am a newcomer to iSCSI world and some questions on its protocol
implementation.

I apologize if this is not the right forum to address this question. Please
point me to the appropriate list.

Q1: What is most popular/stable iSCSI target protocol stack?

Q2: If someone could please provide pointers to other stacks and maybe share
their experiences with different iSCSI implementations
(IET, intel-iscsi, chelsio etc, I will really appreciate that!

Thanks,
Vishal.

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<div>Hello: </div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>I&nbsp;am a newcomer to iSCSI world and some&nbsp;questions on its protocol implementation.</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>I apologize&nbsp;if this is not the right forum to address this question. Please point me to the appropriate list. </div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>Q1: What is most popular/stable iSCSI target protocol stack? <br>&nbsp;</div>
<div>Q2: If someone could please provide pointers to other stacks and maybe&nbsp;share their experiences with different iSCSI implementations </div>
<div>(IET, intel-iscsi, chelsio etc, I will really appreciate that! </div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>Thanks, <br>Vishal. <br>&nbsp;</div>

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From ips-bounces@ietf.org Mon Jan 08 22:35:23 2007
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From: "Vishal Study" <vishal.study@gmail.com>
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Hi:

What is relation between T10 data protection mechanism and iSCSI protocol?

I couldn't find any reference to T10 data protection inside RFC 3720.

Pardon my ignorance if this is stupid question...I am quite new to the
storage area.

Thanks,
Vishal.

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<div>Hi:</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>What is relation between&nbsp;T10 data protection mechanism and&nbsp;iSCSI protocol?</div>
<div><br>I couldn&#39;t find any reference to T10 data protection inside RFC 3720.</div>
<div><br>Pardon my ignorance if this is stupid question...I am quite new to the storage area.</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div>Vishal.</div>

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To: "Eddy Quicksall" <Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net>,
	<ips@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [Ips] Device Identification VPD Page for iSCSI Targets
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What about ASSOCIATION field. Is it supposed to be Logical Unit,Target port
or Target Device ??


-----Original Message-----
From: Eddy Quicksall [mailto:Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net]
Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 8:05 AM
To: RAM SUNEE; ips@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Ips] Device Identification VPD Page for iSCSI Targets


Referring to Table 296 of spc4r07a it seems the value should be 5 meaning
iSCSI.

Eddy

----- Original Message -----
From: "RAM SUNEE" <ram_sunee@yahoo.com>
To: <ips@ietf.org>
Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 10:20 AM
Subject: [Ips] Device Identification VPD Page for iSCSI Targets


> All,
>
> Can anyone please clarify me regarding, Device Identification VPD usage
> for
> iSCSI Target.
> What values should an iSCSI Target use for PROTOCOL_IDENTIFIER,
> ASSOCIATION
> fields of Device Identification VPD response page.
> I have noticed that iSCSI Targets are reportng to Initiators as "SCSI Disk
> Device",is it correct behavior?
> Isn't it supposed to be that iSCSI Target needs to report to Initiator as
> "iSCSI Disk Device"
>
> -RAM
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ips mailing list
> Ips@ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ips
>


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Subject: RE: [Ips] T10 data protection and iSCSI
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Thread-Topic: [Ips] T10 data protection and iSCSI
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From: "Robert Snively" <rsnively@Brocade.COM>
To: "Vishal Study" <vishal.study@gmail.com>, "ips" <ips@ietf.org>
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T10 data protection simply changes slightly the content and length of
the data
fields sent to and received from the storage device.  It also modifies
the behavior of some commands, depending on the checking level
selected for the data protection mechanism.  That is described in the
T10 standard SBC-2 (and SBC-3, now in development).
=20
It has no effect on the iSCSI protocol itself and is completely
independent
of RFC 3720.
=20
Bob

________________________________

From: Vishal Study [mailto:vishal.study@gmail.com]=20
Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 7:35 PM
To: ips
Subject: [Ips] T10 data protection and iSCSI


Hi:
=20
What is relation between T10 data protection mechanism and iSCSI
protocol?

I couldn't find any reference to T10 data protection inside RFC 3720.

Pardon my ignorance if this is stupid question...I am quite new to the
storage area.
=20
Thanks,
Vishal.

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dus-ascii">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.5730.11" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D711370017-09012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>T10 data protection simply changes slightly the =
content and=20
length&nbsp;of the data</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D711370017-09012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>fields sent to and received from the storage =
device.&nbsp;=20
It also modifies</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D711370017-09012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>the behavior of some commands, depending on the =
checking=20
level</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D711370017-09012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>selected for the data protection =
mechanism.&nbsp; That is=20
described in the</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D711370017-09012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>T10 standard SBC-2 (and SBC-3, now in=20
development).</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D711370017-09012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D711370017-09012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>It has no effect on the iSCSI protocol itself =
and is=20
completely independent</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D711370017-09012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>of RFC 3720.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D711370017-09012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D711370017-09012007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Bob</FONT></SPAN></DIV><BR>
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>
<HR tabIndex=3D-1>
<FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> Vishal Study=20
[mailto:vishal.study@gmail.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, January 08, =
2007 7:35=20
PM<BR><B>To:</B> ips<BR><B>Subject:</B> [Ips] T10 data protection and=20
iSCSI<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>Hi:</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>What is relation between&nbsp;T10 data protection mechanism =
and&nbsp;iSCSI=20
protocol?</DIV>
<DIV><BR>I couldn't find any reference to T10 data protection inside RFC =

3720.</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT><BR>Pardon my =
ignorance if=20
this is stupid question...I am quite new to the storage area.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Thanks,</DIV>
<DIV>Vishal.</DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From ips-bounces@ietf.org Tue Jan 09 12:29:23 2007
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	<ips@ietf.org>
References: <CNEFIHOJEFILAAHLEOBIAEPDDEAA.ram_sunee@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ips] Device Identification VPD Page for iSCSI Targets
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 12:28:09 -0500
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This is more of a T10 question but my take is this: The ASSOCIATION field is 
simply used to show which entity the DESIGNATOR field is associated with. It 
has nothing to do with the PROTOCOL IDENTIFIER. You may get several 
Designators, one for each type. For iSCSI the PROTOCOL IDENTIFIER would 5 
for ASSOCIATION values of 01b or 10b when the PIV bit is set.

Eddy

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "RAM SUNEE" <ram_sunee@yahoo.com>
To: "Eddy Quicksall" <Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net>; <ips@ietf.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 2:21 AM
Subject: RE: [Ips] Device Identification VPD Page for iSCSI Targets


> What about ASSOCIATION field. Is it supposed to be Logical Unit,Target 
> port
> or Target Device ??
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Eddy Quicksall [mailto:Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net]
> Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 8:05 AM
> To: RAM SUNEE; ips@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [Ips] Device Identification VPD Page for iSCSI Targets
>
>
> Referring to Table 296 of spc4r07a it seems the value should be 5 meaning
> iSCSI.
>
> Eddy
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "RAM SUNEE" <ram_sunee@yahoo.com>
> To: <ips@ietf.org>
> Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 10:20 AM
> Subject: [Ips] Device Identification VPD Page for iSCSI Targets
>
>
>> All,
>>
>> Can anyone please clarify me regarding, Device Identification VPD usage
>> for
>> iSCSI Target.
>> What values should an iSCSI Target use for PROTOCOL_IDENTIFIER,
>> ASSOCIATION
>> fields of Device Identification VPD response page.
>> I have noticed that iSCSI Targets are reportng to Initiators as "SCSI 
>> Disk
>> Device",is it correct behavior?
>> Isn't it supposed to be that iSCSI Target needs to report to Initiator as
>> "iSCSI Disk Device"
>>
>> -RAM
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Ips mailing list
>> Ips@ietf.org
>> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ips
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ips mailing list
> Ips@ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ips
> 


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	"ips" <ips@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Ips] T10 data protection and iSCSI
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Being new to the storage area this can be very confusing at first. SCSI =
can be transported by many different types of transports. In fact more =
than one transport can be used to a single SCSI device. iSCSI is a =
transport layer and is described in RFC 3720. Most of what you read in =
SAM, SPC, SBC, etc are not related to the transport and hence you will =
generally not find references in RFC 3720 regarding those issues. Some =
will be related in which case you will see a reference to the =
appropriate transport protocol.

When reading the SCSI documents (not the transport documents) you will =
see a term "Service Delivery Subsystem". That includes what I call the =
transport layer.

Eddy
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Vishal Study=20
  To: ips=20
  Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 10:34 PM
  Subject: [Ips] T10 data protection and iSCSI


  Hi:

  What is relation between T10 data protection mechanism and iSCSI =
protocol?

  I couldn't find any reference to T10 data protection inside RFC 3720.

  Pardon my ignorance if this is stupid question...I am quite new to the =
storage area.

  Thanks,
  Vishal.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----


  _______________________________________________
  Ips mailing list
  Ips@ietf.org
  https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ips

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</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Being new to the storage area this can be very =
confusing at=20
first. SCSI can be transported by many different types of transports. In =
fact=20
more than one transport can be used to a single SCSI device. iSCSI is a=20
transport layer and&nbsp;is described in RFC 3720. Most of what you read =
in SAM,=20
SPC, SBC, etc are not related to the transport and hence you will =
generally not=20
find references in RFC 3720 regarding those issues. Some will be related =
in=20
which case you will see a reference to the appropriate transport=20
protocol.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>When reading the SCSI documents (not the transport =
documents)=20
you will see a term "Service Delivery Subsystem". That&nbsp;includes =
what I call=20
the transport layer.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Eddy</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3Dvishal.study@gmail.com =
href=3D"mailto:vishal.study@gmail.com">Vishal=20
  Study</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=3Dips@ietf.org=20
  href=3D"mailto:ips@ietf.org">ips</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, January 08, 2007 =
10:34=20
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [Ips] T10 data =
protection and=20
  iSCSI</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV>Hi:</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>What is relation between&nbsp;T10 data protection mechanism=20
  and&nbsp;iSCSI protocol?</DIV>
  <DIV><BR>I couldn't find any reference to T10 data protection inside =
RFC=20
  3720.</DIV>
  <DIV><BR>Pardon my ignorance if this is stupid question...I am quite =
new to=20
  the storage area.</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>Thanks,</DIV>
  <DIV>Vishal.</DIV>
  <P>
  <HR>

  <P></P>_______________________________________________<BR>Ips mailing=20
  =
list<BR>Ips@ietf.org<BR>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ips<BR></B=
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Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 12:42:11 -0800
From: "Vishal Study" <vishal.study@gmail.com>
To: ips <ips@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Ips] T10 data protection and iSCSI
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Hi:

Thanks everyone for the guidance and pointers.

To summarize, T10 is a mechanism to ensure the integrity of data
read/written from/to the storage device. iSCSI is just *a* transport
mechanism to carry the data between initiator and target.

A followup question:
I understand that T10 mechanism adds extra 8 bytes to 512 byte block.
This operation is done before data is actually written to the storage
device (at the target in iSCSI terminology). Is this understanding
correct?

Thanks again,
Vishal.


On 1/9/07, Robert Snively <rsnively@brocade.com> wrote:
>
> T10 data protection simply changes slightly the content and length of the
> data
> fields sent to and received from the storage device.  It also modifies
> the behavior of some commands, depending on the checking level
> selected for the data protection mechanism.  That is described in the
> T10 standard SBC-2 (and SBC-3, now in development).
>
> It has no effect on the iSCSI protocol itself and is completely independent
> of RFC 3720.
>
> Bob
> ________________________________
> From: Vishal Study [mailto:vishal.study@gmail.com]
> Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 7:35 PM
> To: ips
> Subject: [Ips] T10 data protection and iSCSI
>
>
> Hi:
>
> What is relation between T10 data protection mechanism and iSCSI protocol?
>
> I couldn't find any reference to T10 data protection inside RFC 3720.
>
> Pardon my ignorance if this is stupid question...I am quite new to the
> storage area.
>
> Thanks,
> Vishal.

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Ips@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ips



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--NextPart

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts 
directories.
This draft is a work item of the IP Storage Working Group of the IETF.

	Title		: iSCSI Corrections and Clarifications
	Author(s)	: M. Chadalapaka
	Filename	: draft-ietf-ips-iscsi-impl-guide-04.txt,.pdf
	Pages		: 37
	Date		: 2007-1-9
	
iSCSI is a SCSI transport protocol and maps the SCSI family 
     of application protocols onto TCP/IP.  RFC 3720 defines the
     iSCSI protocol.  This document compiles the clarifications to 
     the original protocol definition in RFC 3720 to serve as a 
     companion document for the iSCSI implementers. This document 
     updates RFC 3720 and the text in this document supersedes the 
     text in RFC 3720 when the two differ.

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Summary of the few technical changes.  I am ignoring the editorial/boilerpl=
ate changes in the list below, as well as the change in title.=0A=0A- Added=
 an introductory paragraph in section 3.1.2 that REPORT LUNS is an example =
used in the rest of the section to illustrate the requirements. (Rob Elliot=
t's comment)=0A=0A- New key TaskReporting with three values, and dropping t=
he old FastMultiTaskAbort key.  There were a few related changes scattered =
throughout the draft. (David Black's comment)=0A=0A- Section 3.3.2, bullet =
(b) - change from "may solicit" to "SHOULD solicit". (Rob Elliott's comment=
)=0A=0A- Section 3.3.3,, bullet 7.  Addition of PERSISTENT RESERVE OUT/PREE=
MPT AND ABORT as a grandfathered case for fencing (Rob Elliott's comment)=
=0A=0A- Section 4.1.2 and 4.1.3 drop the requirement to wait for oustanding=
 TTTs for 3rd party initiators (David Black's comment)=0A=0A- Section 4.1.4=
 to clarify that buffer management to backup outstanding TTTs is really an =
implementation choice (Julian Satran/David Black's comment)=0A=0A- Section =
5.3 (new) to restrict the types of target-generated PDUs on Discovey sessio=
ns (list discussion)=0A=0A- Section 6.1 clarifies that TPGT text is fixed i=
n SAM-4 (Rob Elliott's comment)=0A=0A- Section 6.4 clarifies that there can=
 be only one outstanding Login or Text negotiation at any time (anonymous r=
eviewer/Julian Satran's comment)=0A=0A- Section 7.4 clarifies the message e=
rror checking expectations on the receiver (Eddy Quicksall/Paul Koning's co=
mment)=0A=0A- Section 8.2 notes the obsoletion of a Reject reason code (ano=
nymous reviewer)=0A=0A=0ABTW, the pdf copy has the complete change bars.=0A=
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ips-iscsi-impl-guide-04.pdf=
=0A=0A=0AMallikarjun=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: "Internet-=
Drafts@ietf.org" <Internet-Drafts@ietf.org>=0ATo: i-d-announce@ietf.org=0AC=
c: ips@ietf.org=0ASent: Tuesday, January 9, 2007 12:50:02 PM=0ASubject: [Ip=
s] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ips-iscsi-impl-guide-04.txt=0A=0A=0AA New Internet=
-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts =0Adirectories.=0AThis=
 draft is a work item of the IP Storage Working Group of the IETF.=0A=0A   =
 Title        : iSCSI Corrections and Clarifications=0A    Author(s)    : M=
. Chadalapaka=0A    Filename    : draft-ietf-ips-iscsi-impl-guide-04.txt,.p=
df=0A    Pages        : 37=0A    Date        : 2007-1-9=0A    =0AiSCSI is a=
 SCSI transport protocol and maps the SCSI family =0A     of application pr=
otocols onto TCP/IP.  RFC 3720 defines the=0A     iSCSI protocol.  This doc=
ument compiles the clarifications to =0A     the original protocol definiti=
on in RFC 3720 to serve as a =0A     companion document for the iSCSI imple=
menters. This document =0A     updates RFC 3720 and the text in this docume=
nt supersedes the =0A     text in RFC 3720 when the two differ.=0A=0AA URL =
for this Internet-Draft is:=0Ahttp://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-iet=
f-ips-iscsi-impl-guide-04.txt=0A=0ATo remove yourself from the I-D Announce=
ment list, send a message to =0Ai-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word=
 unsubscribe in the body of =0Athe message. =0AYou can also visit https://w=
ww1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce =0Ato change your subscription s=
ettings.=0A=0AInternet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login wi=
th the =0Ausername "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After=
 =0Alogging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then =0A"get draft-ietf-ips-i=
scsi-impl-guide-04.txt".=0A=0AA list of Internet-Drafts directories can be =
found in=0Ahttp://www.ietf.org/shadow.html =0Aor ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1s=
hadow-sites.txt=0A=0AInternet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail.=0A=0AS=
end a message to:=0A    mailserv@ietf.org.=0AIn the body type:=0A    "FILE =
/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ips-iscsi-impl-guide-04.txt".=0A    =0ANOTE:   =
 The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in=0A    MIME-encoded =
form by using the "mpack" utility.  To use this=0A    feature, insert the c=
ommand "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE"=0A    command.  To decode the resp=
onse(s), you will need "munpack" or=0A    a MIME-compliant mail reader.  Di=
fferent MIME-compliant mail readers=0A    exhibit different behavior, espec=
ially when dealing with=0A    "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents whi=
ch have been split=0A    up into multiple messages), so check your local do=
cumentation on=0A    how to manipulate these messages.=0A=0ABelow is the da=
ta which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader=0Aimplementation to autom=
atically retrieve the ASCII version of the=0AInternet-Draft.=0A____________=
___________________________________=0AIps mailing list=0AIps@ietf.org=0Ahtt=
ps://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ips=0A=0A______________________________=
____________________=0ADo You Yahoo!?=0ATired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the=
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Subject: [Ips] Protocol Action: 'Declarative Public Extension Key for 
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The IESG has approved the following document:

- 'Declarative Public Extension Key for iSCSI Node Architecture '
   <draft-ietf-ips-iscsi-nodearch-key-03.txt> as a Proposed Standard

This document is the product of the IP Storage Working Group. 

The IESG contact persons are Lars Eggert and Magnus Westerlund.

A URL of this Internet-Draft is:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ips-iscsi-nodearch-key-03.txt

Technical Summary
 
   The iSCSI protocol, described in RFC 3720, allows for extension
   items to the protocol in the form of Private or Public Extension
   Keys.  This Internet-Draft describes a Public Extension Key for the
   purpose of enhancing iSCSI supportability.  The key accomplishes this
   objective by allowing iSCSI nodes to communicate architecture details
   during the iSCSI login sequence.  The receiving node can then use
   this information for enhanced logging and support.
 
Working Group Summary
 
   This document was carefully reviewed in the WG primarily for security
   concerns (protecting sensitive information about what is running) and
   the possible abuse of this key in a fashion similar to theabuse of
   the HTTP "Server" and "User-Agent" fields that can damage
   interoperability.  As a result of this WG attention, the draft
   contains specific text to address both concerns.
 
Protocol Quality
 
   There are implementations of functionality similar to that provided
   by this key.

   This draft was reviewed for the IPS WG by David L. Black., who also
   acted as PROTO Document Shepherd.

   Lars Eggert reviewed this document for the IESG.

Note to RFC Editor

Section 3, paragraph 2
OLD:

   Nodes implementing this key MAY choose to only transmit the key, only
   log the key values received from other nodes, or both transmit and
   log the key values.

NEW:

   Nodes implementing this key MUST choose one of the following
   implementation options:
	o only transmit the key
	o only log the key values received from other nodes or
	o both transmit and log the key values. 

Section 3, paragraph 3
OLD:

   Thus, a valid implementation of this key may be that a node is
   completely silent

NEW:

   Thus, a valid behavior for this key may be that a node is
   completely silent

 
In Section 5 IANA Considerations, insert the following
text after the first paragraph:

NEW:

      The update to RFC 3720 to allow additional types of RFCs for
      iSCSI Extension items has the same effect as if the following
      changes were made to the text of RFC 3720 (RFC text cannot be
      changed after publication):

      1) In Section 11.1, the requirement that Z# Authentication methods
         "MUST be described by an informational RFC." is changed to
         "MUST be described by a standards track RFC, an experimental
         RFC or an informational RFC."

      2) In Section 12.1, the requirement that Y# Digest algorithms
         "MUST be described by an informational RFC." is changed to
         "MUST be described by a standards track RFC, an experimental
         RFC or an informational RFC."

      3) In Section 12.22, the requirement that X# text keys
         "MUST be described by an informational RFC." is changed to
         "MUST be described by a standards track RFC, an experimental
         RFC or an informational RFC."

      4) In Section 13.3, the description of allowed RFC types for
         extension items is changed from "The RFC may be informational
         rather than Standards-Track," to "The RFC MUST be standards
         track, experimental or informational,"

      5) In Section 13.5.2, the phrase "standards track" is changed to
         "standards track or experimental" in the last sentence of
         the first paragraph, so that the sentence reads: "If the
         specification is a standards track or experimental document,
         the usual IETF procedures for such documents are followed."

      The registries for iSCSI extension items should be managed as
      if these changes had been made to the text of RFC 3720.


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The IESG has approved the following document:

- 'Declarative Public Extension Key for iSCSI Node Architecture '
   <draft-ietf-ips-iscsi-nodearch-key-03.txt> as a Proposed Standard

This document is the product of the IP Storage Working Group. 

The IESG contact persons are Lars Eggert and Magnus Westerlund.

A URL of this Internet-Draft is:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ips-iscsi-nodearch-key-03.txt

Technical Summary
 
   The iSCSI protocol, described in RFC 3720, allows for extension
   items to the protocol in the form of Private or Public Extension
   Keys.  This Internet-Draft describes a Public Extension Key for the
   purpose of enhancing iSCSI supportability.  The key accomplishes this
   objective by allowing iSCSI nodes to communicate architecture details
   during the iSCSI login sequence.  The receiving node can then use
   this information for enhanced logging and support.
 
Working Group Summary
 
   This document was carefully reviewed in the WG primarily for security
   concerns (protecting sensitive information about what is running) and
   the possible abuse of this key in a fashion similar to theabuse of
   the HTTP "Server" and "User-Agent" fields that can damage
   interoperability.  As a result of this WG attention, the draft
   contains specific text to address both concerns.
 
Protocol Quality
 
   There are implementations of functionality similar to that provided
   by this key.

   This draft was reviewed for the IPS WG by David L. Black., who also
   acted as PROTO Document Shepherd.

   Lars Eggert reviewed this document for the IESG.

Note to RFC Editor

Section 3, paragraph 2
OLD:

   Nodes implementing this key MAY choose to only transmit the key, only
   log the key values received from other nodes, or both transmit and
   log the key values.

NEW:

   Nodes implementing this key MUST choose one of the following
   implementation options:
	o only transmit the key
	o only log the key values received from other nodes or
	o both transmit and log the key values. 

Section 3, paragraph 3
OLD:

   Thus, a valid implementation of this key may be that a node is
   completely silent

NEW:

   Thus, a valid behavior for this key may be that a node is
   completely silent

 
In Section 5 IANA Considerations, insert the following
text after the first paragraph:

NEW:

      The update to RFC 3720 to allow additional types of RFCs for
      iSCSI Extension items has the same effect as if the following
      changes were made to the text of RFC 3720 (RFC text cannot be
      changed after publication):

      1) In Section 11.1, the requirement that Z# Authentication methods
         "MUST be described by an informational RFC." is changed to
         "MUST be described by a standards track RFC, an experimental
         RFC or an informational RFC."

      2) In Section 12.1, the requirement that Y# Digest algorithms
         "MUST be described by an informational RFC." is changed to
         "MUST be described by a standards track RFC, an experimental
         RFC or an informational RFC."

      3) In Section 12.22, the requirement that X# text keys
         "MUST be described by an informational RFC." is changed to
         "MUST be described by a standards track RFC, an experimental
         RFC or an informational RFC."

      4) In Section 13.3, the description of allowed RFC types for
         extension items is changed from "The RFC may be informational
         rather than Standards-Track," to "The RFC MUST be standards
         track, experimental or informational,"

      5) In Section 13.5.2, the phrase "standards track" is changed to
         "standards track or experimental" in the last sentence of
         the first paragraph, so that the sentence reads: "If the
         specification is a standards track or experimental document,
         the usual IETF procedures for such documents are followed."

      The registries for iSCSI extension items should be managed as
      if these changes had been made to the text of RFC 3720.


_______________________________________________
IETF-Announce mailing list
IETF-Announce@ietf.org
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_______________________________________________
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Subject: [Ips] Protocol Action: 'Declarative Public Extension Key for 
 iSCSI Node Architecture' to Proposed Standard 
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The IESG has approved the following document:

- 'Declarative Public Extension Key for iSCSI Node Architecture '
   <draft-ietf-ips-iscsi-nodearch-key-03.txt> as a Proposed Standard

This document is the product of the IP Storage Working Group. 

The IESG contact persons are Lars Eggert and Magnus Westerlund.

A URL of this Internet-Draft is:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ips-iscsi-nodearch-key-03.txt

Technical Summary
 
   The iSCSI protocol, described in RFC 3720, allows for extension
   items to the protocol in the form of Private or Public Extension
   Keys.  This Internet-Draft describes a Public Extension Key for the
   purpose of enhancing iSCSI supportability.  The key accomplishes this
   objective by allowing iSCSI nodes to communicate architecture details
   during the iSCSI login sequence.  The receiving node can then use
   this information for enhanced loggingFrom ips-bounces@ietf.org Wed Jan 10 12:16:43 2007
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Subject: [Ips] Protocol Action: 'Declarative Public Extension Key for 
 iSCSI Node Architecture' to Proposed Standard 
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The IESG has approved the following document:

- 'Declarative Public Extension Key for iSCSI Node Architecture '
   <draft-ietf-ips-iscsi-nodearch-key-03.txt> as a Proposed Standard

This document is the product of the IP Storage Working Group. 

The IESG contact persons are Lars Eggert and Magnus Westerlund.

A URL of this Internet-Draft is:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ips-iscsi-nodearch-key-03.txt

Technical Summary
 
   The iSCSI protocol, described in RFC 3720, allows for extension
   items to the protocol in the form of Private or Public Extension
   Keys.  This Internet-Draft describes a Public Extension Key for the
   purpose of enhancing iSCSI supportability.  The key accomplishes this
   objective by allowing iSCSI nodes to communicate architecture details
   during the iSCSI login sequence.  The receiving node can then use
   this information for enhanced logging and support.
 
Working Group Summary
 
   This document was carefully reviewed in the WG primarily for security
   concerns (protecting sensitive information about what is running) and
   the possible abuse of this key in a fashion similar to theabuse of
   the HTTP "Server" and "User-Agent" fields that can damage
   interoperability.  As a result of this WG attention, the draft
   contains specific text to address both concerns.
 
Protocol Quality
 
   There are implementations of functionality similar to that provided
   by this key.

   This draft was reviewed for the IPS WG by David L. Black., who also
   acted as PROTO Document Shepherd.

   Lars Eggert reviewed this document for the IESG.

Note to RFC Editor

Section 3, paragraph 2
OLD:

   Nodes implementing this key MAY choose to only transmit the key, only
   log the key values received from other nodes, or both transmit and
   log the key values.

NEW:

   Nodes implementing this key MUST choose one of the following
   implementation options:
	o only transmit the key
	o only log the key values received from other nodes or
	o both transmit and log the key values. 

Section 3, paragraph 3
OLD:

   Thus, a valid implementation of this key may be that a node is
   completely silent

NEW:

   Thus, a valid behavior for this key may be that a node is
   completely silent

 
In Section 5 IANA Considerations, insert the following
text after the first paragraph:

NEW:

      The update to RFC 3720 to allow additional types of RFCs for
      iSCSI Extension items has the same effect as if the following
      changes were made to the text of RFC 3720 (RFC text cannot be
      changed after publication):

      1) In Section 11.1, the requirement that Z# Authentication methods
         "MUST be described by an informational RFC." is changed to
         "MUST be described by a standards track RFC, an experimental
         RFC or an informational RFC."

      2) In Section 12.1, the requirement that Y# Digest algorithms
         "MUST be described by an informational RFC." is changed to
         "MUST be described by a standards track RFC, an experimental
         RFC or an informational RFC."

      3) In Section 12.22, the requirement that X# text keys
         "MUST be described by an informational RFC." is changed to
         "MUST be described by a standards track RFC, an experimental
         RFC or an informational RFC."

      4) In Section 13.3, the description of allowed RFC types for
         extension items is changed from "The RFC may be informational
         rather than Standards-Track," to "The RFC MUST be standards
         track, experimental or informational,"

      5) In Section 13.5.2, the phrase "standards track" is changed to
         "standards track or experimental" in the last sentence of
         the first paragraph, so that the sentence reads: "If the
         specification is a standards track or experimental document,
         the usual IETF procedures for such documents are followed."

      The registries for iSCSI extension items should be managed as
      if these changes had been made to the text of RFC 3720.


_______________________________________________
IETF-Announce mailing list
IETF-Announce@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce

_______________________________________________
Ips mailing list
Ips@ietf.org
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From ips-bounces@ietf.org Wed Jan 10 12:16:43 2007
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	gfi-gw.seabridge.co.il with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); 
	Wed, 10 Jan 2007 19:14:58 and support.
 
Working Group Summary
 
   This document was carefully reviewed in the WG primarily for security
   concerns (protecting sensitive information about what is running) and
   the possible abuse of this key in a fashion similar to theabuse of
   the HTTP "Server" and "User-Agent" fields that can damage
   interoperability.  As a result of this WG attention, the draft
   contains specific text to address both concerns.
 
Protocol Quality
 
   There are implementations of functionality similar to that provided
   by this key.

   This draft was reviewed for the IPS WG by David L. Black., who also
   acted as PROTO Document Shepherd.

   Lars Eggert reviewed this document for the IESG.

Note to RFC Editor

Section 3, paragraph 2
OLD:

   Nodes implementing this key MAY choose to only transmit the key, only
   log the key values received from other nodes, or both transmit and
   log the key values.

NEW:

   Nodes implementing this key MUST choose one of the following
   implementation options:
	o only transmit the key
	o only log the key values received from other nodes or
	o both transmit and log the key values. 

Section 3, paragraph 3
OLD:

   Thus, a valid implementation of this key may be that a node is
   completely silent

NEW:

   Thus, a valid behavior for this key may be that a node is
   completely silent

 
In Section 5 IANA Considerations, insert the following
text after the first paragraph:

NEW:

      The update to RFC 3720 to allow additional types of RFCs for
      iSCSI Extension items has the same effect as if the following
      changes were made to the text of RFC 3720 (RFC text cannot be
      changed after publication):

      1) In Section 11.1, the requirement that Z# Authentication methods
         "MUST be described by an informational RFC." is changed to
         "MUST be described by a standards track RFC, an experimental
         RFC or an informational RFC."

      2) In Section 12.1, the requirement that Y# Digest algorithms
         "MUST be described by an informational RFC." is changed to
         "MUST be described by a standards track RFC, an experimental
         RFC or an informational RFC."

      3) In Section 12.22, the requirement that X# text keys
         "MUST be described by an informational RFC." is changed to
         "MUST be described by a standards track RFC, an experimental
         RFC or an informational RFC."

      4) In Section 13.3, the description of allowed RFC types for
         extension items is changed from "The RFC may be informational
         rather than Standards-Track," to "The RFC MUST be standards
         track, experimental or informational,"

      5) In Section 13.5.2, the phrase "standards track" is changed to
         "standards track or experimental" in the last sentence of
         the first paragraph, so that the sentence reads: "If the
         specification is a standards track or experimental document,
         the usual IETF procedures for such documents are followed."

      The registries for iSCSI extension items should be managed as
      if these changes had been made to the text of RFC 3720.


_______________________________________________
IETF-Announce mailing list
IETF-Announce@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce

_______________________________________________
Ips mailing list
Ips@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ips

From ips-bounces@ietf.org Wed Jan 10 12:16:43 2007
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	RFC Editor <rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org>
Subject: [Ips] Protocol Action: 'Declarative Public Extension Key for 
 iSCSI Node Architecture' to Proposed Standard 
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The IESG has approved the following document:

- 'Declarative Public Extension Key for iSCSI Node Architecture '
   <draft-ietf-ips-iscsi-nodearch-key-03.txt> as a Proposed Standard

This document is the product of the IP Storage Working Group. 

The IESG contact persons are Lars Eggert and Magnus Westerlund.

A URL of this Internet-Draft is:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ips-iscsi-nodearch-key-03.txt

Technical Summary
 
   The iSCSI protocol, described in RFC 3720, allows for extension
   items to the protocol in the form of Private or Public Extension
   Keys.  This Internet-Draft describes a Public Extension Key for the
   purpose of enhancing iSCSI supportability.  The key accomplishes this
   objective by allowing iSCSI nodes to communicate architecture details
   during the iSCSI login sequence.  The receiving node can then use
   this information for enhanced logging and support.
 
Working Group Summary
 
   This document was carefully reviewed in the WG primarily for security
   concerns (protecting sensitive information about what is running) and
   the possible abuse of this key in a fashion similar to theabuse of
   the HTTP "Server" and "User-Agent" fields that can damage
   interoperability.  As a result of this WG attention, the draft
   contains specific text to address both concerns.
 
Protocol Quality
 
   There are implementations of functionality similar to that provided
   by this key.

   This draft was reviewed for the IPS WG by David L. Black., who also
   acted as PROTO Document Shepherd.

   Lars Eggert rev +0200
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	RFC Editor <rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org>
Subject: [Ips] Protocol Action: 'Declarative Public Extension Key for 
 iSCSI Node Architecture' to Proposed Standard 
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The IESG has approved the following document:

- 'Declarative Public Extension Key for iSCSI Node Architecture '
   <draft-ietf-ips-iscsi-nodearch-key-03.txt> as a Proposed Standard

This document is the product of the IP Storage Working Group. 

The IESG contact persons are Lars Eggert and Magnus Westerlund.

A URL of this Internet-Draft is:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ips-iscsi-nodearch-key-03.txt

Technical Summary
 
   The iSCSI protocol, described in RFC 3720, allows for extension
   items to the protocol in the form of Private or Public Extension
   Keys.  This Internet-Draft describes a Public Extension Key for the
   purpose of enhancing iSCSI supportability.  The key accomplishes this
   objective by allowing iSCSI nodes to communicate architecture details
   during the iSCSI login sequence.  The receiving node can then use
   this information for enhanced logging and support.
 
Working Group Summary
 
   This document was carefully reviewed in the WG primarily for security
   concerns (protecting sensitive information about what is running) and
   the possible abuse of this key in a fashion similar to theabuse of
   the HTTP "Server" and "User-Agent" fields that can damage
   interoperability.  As a result of this WG attention, the draft
   contains specific text to address both concerns.
 
Protocol Quality
 
   There are implementations of functionality similar to that provided
   by this key.

   This draft was reviewed for the IPS WG by David L. Black., who also
   acted as PROTO Document Shepherd.

   Lars Eggert reviewed this document for the IESG.

Note to RFC Editor

Section 3, paragraph 2
OLD:

   Nodes implementing this key MAY choose to only transmit the key, only
   log the key values received from other nodes, or both transmit and
   log the key values.

NEW:

   Nodes implementing this key MUST choose one of the following
   implementation options:
	o only transmit the key
	o only log the key values received from other nodes or
	o both transmit and log the key values. 

Section 3, paragraph 3
OLD:

   Thus, a valid implementation of this key may be that a node is
   completely silent

NEW:

   Thus, a valid behavior for this key may be that a node is
   completely silent

 
In Section 5 IANA Considerations, insert the following
text after the first paragraph:

NEW:

      The update to RFC 3720 to allow additional types of RFCs for
      iSCSI Extension items has the same effect as if the following
      changes were made to the text of RFC 3720 (RFC text cannot be
      changed after publication):

      1) In Section 11.1, the requirement that Z# Authentication methods
         "MUST be described by an informational RFC." is changed to
         "MUST be described by a standards track RFC, an experimental
         RFC or an informational RFC."

      2) In Section 12.1, the requirement that Y# Digest algorithms
         "MUST be described by an informational RFC." is changed to
         "MUST be described by a standards track RFC, an experimental
         RFC or an informational RFC."

      3) In Section 12.22, the requirement that X# text keys
         "MUST be described by an informational RFC." is changed to
         "MUST be described by a standards track RFC, an experimental
         RFC or an informational RFC."

      4) In Section 13.3, the description of allowed RFC types for
         extension items is changed from "The RFC may be informational
         rather than Standards-Track," to "The RFC MUST be standards
         track, experimental or informational,"

      5) In Section 13.5.2, the phrase "standards track" is changed to
         "standards track or experimental" in the last sentence of
         the first paragraph, so that the sentence reads: "If the
         specification is a standards track or experimental document,
         the usual IETF procedures for such documents are followed."

      The registries for iSCSI extension items should be managed as
      if these changes had been made to the text of RFC 3720.


_______________________________________________
IETF-Announce mailing list
IETF-Announce@ietf.org
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_______________________________________________
Ips mailing list
Ips@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ips





iewed this document for the IESG.

Note to RFC Editor

Section 3, paragraph 2
OLD:

   Nodes implementing this key MAY choose to only transmit the key, only
   log the key values received from other nodes, or both transmit and
   log the key values.

NEW:

   Nodes implementing this key MUST choose one of the following
   implementation options:
	o only transmit the key
	o only log the key values received from other nodes or
	o both transmit and log the key values. 

Section 3, paragraph 3
OLD:

   Thus, a valid implementation of this key may be that a node is
   completely silent

NEW:

   Thus, a valid behavior for this key may be that a node is
   completely silent

 
In Section 5 IANA Considerations, insert the following
text after the first paragraph:

NEW:

      The update to RFC 3720 to allow additional types of RFCs for
      iSCSI Extension items has the same effect as if the following
      changes were made to the text of RFC 3720 (RFC text cannot be
      changed after publication):

      1) In Section 11.1, the requirement that Z# Authentication methods
         "MUST be described by an informational RFC." is changed to
         "MUST be described by a standards track RFC, an experimental
         RFC or an informational RFC."

      2) In Section 12.1, the requirement that Y# Digest algorithms
         "MUST be described by an informational RFC." is changed to
         "MUST be described by a standards track RFC, an experimental
         RFC or an informational RFC."

      3) In Section 12.22, the requirement that X# text keys
         "MUST be described by an informational RFC." is changed to
         "MUST be described by a standards track RFC, an experimental
         RFC or an informational RFC."

      4) In Section 13.3, the description of allowed RFC types for
         extension items is changed from "The RFC may be informational
         rather than Standards-Track," to "The RFC MUST be standards
         track, experimental or informational,"

      5) In Section 13.5.2, the phrase "standards track" is changed to
         "standards track or experimental" in the last sentence of
         the first paragraph, so that the sentence reads: "If the
         specification is a standards track or experimental document,
         the usual IETF procedures for such documents are followed."

      The registries for iSCSI extension items should be managed as
      if these changes had been made to the text of RFC 3720.


_______________________________________________
IETF-Announce mailing list
IETF-Announce@ietf.org
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_______________________________________________
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Ips@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ips





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Cc: ips mailing list <ips@ietf.org>, Internet Architecture Board <iab@iab.org>,
	ips chair <ips-chairs@tools.ietf.org>,
	RFC Editor <rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org>
Subject: [Ips] Protocol Action: 'Declarative Public Extension Key for 
 iSCSI Node Architecture' to Proposed Standard 
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The IESG has approved the following document:

- 'Declarative Public Extension Key for iSCSI Node Architecture '
   <draft-ietf-ips-iscsi-nodearch-key-03.txt> as a Proposed Standard

This document is the product of the IP Storage Working Group. 

The IESG contact persons are Lars Eggert and Magnus Westerlund.

A URL of this Internet-Draft is:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ips-iscsi-nodearch-key-03.txt

Technical Summary
 
   The iSCSI protocol, described in RFC 3720, allows for extension
   items to the protocol in the form of Private or Public Extension
   Keys.  This Internet-Draft describes a Public Extension Key for the
   purpose of enhancing iSCSI supportability.  The key accomplishes this
   objective by allowing iSCSI nodes to communicate architecture details
   during the iSCSI login sequence.  The receiving node can then use
   this information for enhanced logging and support.
 
Working Group Summary
 
   This document was carefully reviewed in the WG primarily for security
   concerns (protecting sensitive information about what is running) and
   the possible abuse of this key in a fashion similar to theabuse of
   the HTTP "Server" and "User-Agent" fields that can damage
   interoperability.  As a result of this WG attention, the draft
   contains specific text to address both concerns.
 
Protocol Quality
 
   There are implementations of functionality similar to that provided
   by this key.

   This draft was reviewed for the IPS WG by David L. Black., who also
   acted as PROTO Document Shepherd.

   Lars Eggert reviewed this document for the IESG.

Note to RFC Editor

Section 3, paragraph 2
OLD:

   Nodes implementing this key MAY choose to only transmit the key, only
   log the key values received from other nodes, or both transmit and
   log the key values.

NEW:

   Nodes implementing this key MUST choose one of the following
   implementation options:
	o only transmit the key
	o only log the key values received from other nodes or
	o both transmit and log the key values. 

Section 3, paragraph 3
OLD:

   Thus, a valid implementation of this key may be that a node is
   completely silent

NEW:

   Thus, a valid behavior for this key may be that a node is
   completely silent

 
In Section 5 IANA Considerations, insert the following
text after the first paragraph:

NEW:

      The update to RFC 3720 to allow additional types of RFCs for
      iSCSI Extension items has the same effect as if the following
      changes were made to the text of RFC 3720 (RFC text cannot be
      changed after publication):

      1) In Section 11.1, the requirement that Z# Authentication methods
         "MUST be described by an informational RFC." is changed to
         "MUST be described by a standards track RFC, an experimental
         RFC or an informational RFC."

      2) In Section 12.1, the requirement that Y# Digest algorithms
         "MUST be described by an informational RFC." is changed to
         "MUST be described by a standards track RFC, an experimental
         RFC or an informational RFC."

      3) In Section 12.22, the requirement that X# text keys
         "MUST be described by an informational RFC." is changed to
         "MUST be described by a standards track RFC, an experimental
         RFC or an informational RFC."

      4) In Section 13.3, the description of allowed RFC types for
         extension items is changed from "The RFC may be informational
         rather than Standards-Track," to "The RFC MUST be standards
         track, experimental or informational,"

      5) In Section 13.5.2, the phrase "standards track" is changed to
         "standards track or experimental" in the last sentence of
         the first paragraph, so that the sentence reads: "If the
         specification is a standards track or experimental document,
         the usual IETF procedures for such documents are followed."

      The registries for iSCSI extension items should be managed as
      if these changes had been made to the text of RFC 3720.


_______________________________________________
IETF-Announce mailing list
IETF-Announce@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce

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Ips@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ips



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Subject: [Ips] Protocol Action: 'Declarative Public Extension Key for 
 iSCSI Node Architecture' to Proposed Standard 
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The IESG has approved the following document:

- 'Declarative Public Extension Key for iSCSI Node Architecture '
   <draft-ietf-ips-iscsi-nodearch-key-03.txt> as a Proposed Standard

This document is the product of the IP Storage Working Group. 

The IESG contact persons are Lars Eggert and Magnus Westerlund.

A URL of this Internet-Draft is:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ips-iscsi-nodearch-key-03.txt

Technical Summary
 
   The iSCSI protocol, described in RFC 3720, allows for extension
   items to the protocol in the form of Private or Public Extension
   Keys.  This Internet-Draft describes a Public Extension Key for the
   purpose of enhancing iSCSI supportability.  The key accomplishes this
   objective by allowing iSCSI nodes to communicate architecture details
   during the iSCSI login sequence.  The receiving node can then use
   this information for enhanced logging and support.
 
Working Group Summary
 
   This document was carefully reviewed in the WG primarily for security
   concerns (protecting sensitive information about what is running) and
   the possible abuse of this key in a fashion similar to theabuse of
   the HTTP "Server" and "User-Agent" fields that can damage
   interoperability.  As a result of this WG attention, the draft
   contains specific text to address both concerns.
 
Protocol Quality
 
   There are implementations of functionality similar to that provided
   by this key.

   This draft was reviewed for the IPS WG by David L. Black., who also
   acted as PROTO Document Shepherd.

   Lars Eggert reviewed this document for the IESG.

Note to RFC Editor

Section 3, paragraph 2
OLD:

   Nodes implementing this key MAY choose to only transmit the key, only
   log the key values received from other nodes, or both transmit and
   log the key values.

NEW:

   Nodes implementing this key MUST choose one of the following
   implementation options:
	o only transmit the key
	o only log the key values received from other nodes or
	o both transmit and log the key values. 

Section 3, paragraph 3
OLD:

   Thus, a valid implementation of this key may be that a node is
   completely silent

NEW:

   Thus, a valid behavior for this key may be that a node is
   completely silent

 
In Section 5 IANA Considerations, insert the following
text after the first paragraph:

NEW:

      The update to RFC 3720 to allow additional types of RFCs for
      iSCSI Extension items has the same effect as if the following
      changes were made to the text of RFC 3720 (RFC text cannot be
      changed after publication):

      1) In Section 11.1, the requirement that Z# Authentication methods
         "MUST be described by an informational RFC." is changed to
         "MUST be described by a standards track RFC, an experimental
         RFC or an informational RFC."

      2) In Section 12.1, the requirement that Y# Digest algorithms
         "MUST be described by an informational RFC." is changed to
         "MUST be described by a standards track RFC, an experimental
         RFC or an informational RFC."

      3) In Section 12.22, the requirement that X# text keys
         "MUST be described by an informational RFC." is changed to
         "MUST be described by a standards track RFC, an experimental
         RFC or an informational RFC."

      4) In Section 13.3, the description of allowed RFC types for
         extension items is changed from "The RFC may be informational
         rather than Standards-Track," to "The RFC MUST be standards
         track, experimental or informational,"

      5) In Section 13.5.2, the phrase "standards track" is changed to
         "standards track or experimental" in the last sentence of
         the first paragraph, so that the sentence reads: "If the
         specification is a standards track or experimental document,
         the usual IETF procedures for such documents are followed."

      The registries for iSCSI extension items should be managed as
      if these changes had been made to the text of RFC 3720.


_______________________________________________
IETF-Announce mailing list
IETF-Announce@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce

_______________________________________________
Ips mailing list
Ips@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ips



From ips-bounces@ietf.org Wed Jan 10 15:14:24 2007
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Subject: RE: [Ips] Device Identification VPD Page for iSCSI Targets
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 14:13:58 -0600
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Thread-Topic: [Ips] Device Identification VPD Page for iSCSI Targets
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	<000501c73413$88433f80$01faa8c0@ivivity.com>
From: "Elliott, Robert (Server Storage)" <Elliott@hp.com>
To: <ips@ietf.org>
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The Device Identification VPD page includes lots of identifiers.

1. ASSOCIATION=00b identifiers are related to the logical unit.  Since a
target device could have target ports of many protocols (e.g., iSCSI and
Fibre Channel), a logical unit is not considered to be tied to any protocol.
PIV=0 and the PROTOCOL IDENTIFIER field is considered reserved.  The same
set is reported regardless of the target port being used by the INQUIRY
command.

The VPD page should include one of these:
a) NAA identifer
b) EUI-64 based identifier
c) SCSI name string identifier containing "<iSCSI name starting with
iqn>,L,0x<16 digits>"
d) SCSI name string identifier not starting with iqn (e.g. "naa.6nnnn...")


2. ASSOCIATION=01b identifiers are related to the target port through which
the INQUIRY command is being run.  These are protocol-specific, so PIV=1 and
PROTOCOL IDENTIFIER=5h if the INQUIRY command is coming through an iSCSI
target port.

If it is an iSCSI target port, the VPD page should include both:
a) SCSI name string identifer containing "<iSCSI name>,t,0x<TPGT>"
b) Relative Target Port identifier containing an index 1..n for each target
port in the target device.


3. ASSOCIATION=10b identifiers are related to the target device; the same
set is reported regardless of the target port being used by the INQURIY
command.  Each protocol is allowed to contribute a target device name.

The VPD page should include:
a) SCSI name string identifier containing "<iSCSI name>"

It is valid to use either PIV=0 or to use PIV=1 and PROTOCOL IDENTIFIER=5h.
PIV=1 is probably better if the target device has ports using multiple
protocols and chooses to report a different target device name for each
protocol.  PIV=0 is probably better if it reports one common target device
name (which could be done in an iSCSI/FC combination target device if the
iSCSI name uses "naa." format).

--
Rob Elliott, elliott@hp.com
Hewlett-Packard Industry Standard Server Storage Advanced Technology
https://ecardfile.com/id/RobElliott




> -----Original Message-----
> From: Eddy Quicksall [mailto:Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net] 
> Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 11:28 AM
> To: RAM SUNEE; ips@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [Ips] Device Identification VPD Page for iSCSI Targets
> 
> This is more of a T10 question but my take is this: The 
> ASSOCIATION field is 
> simply used to show which entity the DESIGNATOR field is 
> associated with. It 
> has nothing to do with the PROTOCOL IDENTIFIER. You may get several 
> Designators, one for each type. For iSCSI the PROTOCOL 
> IDENTIFIER would 5 
> for ASSOCIATION values of 01b or 10b when the PIV bit is set.
> 
> Eddy
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "RAM SUNEE" <ram_sunee@yahoo.com>
> To: "Eddy Quicksall" <Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net>; <ips@ietf.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 2:21 AM
> Subject: RE: [Ips] Device Identification VPD Page for iSCSI Targets
> 
> 
> > What about ASSOCIATION field. Is it supposed to be Logical 
> Unit,Target 
> > port
> > or Target Device ??
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Eddy Quicksall [mailto:Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net]
> > Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 8:05 AM
> > To: RAM SUNEE; ips@ietf.org
> > Subject: Re: [Ips] Device Identification VPD Page for iSCSI Targets
> >
> >
> > Referring to Table 296 of spc4r07a it seems the value 
> should be 5 meaning
> > iSCSI.
> >
> > Eddy
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "RAM SUNEE" <ram_sunee@yahoo.com>
> > To: <ips@ietf.org>
> > Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 10:20 AM
> > Subject: [Ips] Device Identification VPD Page for iSCSI Targets
> >
> >
> >> All,
> >>
> >> Can anyone please clarify me regarding, Device 
> Identification VPD usage
> >> for
> >> iSCSI Target.
> >> What values should an iSCSI Target use for PROTOCOL_IDENTIFIER,
> >> ASSOCIATION
> >> fields of Device Identification VPD response page.
> >> I have noticed that iSCSI Targets are reportng to 
> Initiators as "SCSI 
> >> Disk
> >> Device",is it correct behavior?
> >> Isn't it supposed to be that iSCSI Target needs to report 
> to Initiator as
> >> "iSCSI Disk Device"
> >>
> >> -RAM
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Ips mailing list
> >> Ips@ietf.org
> >> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ips
> >>
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ips mailing list
> > Ips@ietf.org
> > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ips
> > 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ips mailing list
> Ips@ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ips
> 

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From marmadukefoxx@love.mignews.com Wed Jan 10 19:21:09 2007
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From acbdabeagcfcfc@castany.com Thu Jan 11 23:21:10 2007
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To: ion-archive@lists.ietf.org
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"Defeating them will require the full commitment of our alliance," Bush sai=
d.In Riga to attend a        NATO summit, Bush also enlisted renewed commit=
ments from the NATO allies that have deployed 32,000 troops to        Afgha=
nistan. He said NATO commanders must have the resources and flexibility to =
do the job =97 an apparent reference to the fact that only a handful of cou=
ntries =97 primarily Canada, Britain, the United States and the Netherlands=
 =97 are doing much of the heavy lifting in the dangerous southern province=
s against a resurgent Taliban."Defeating them will require the full commitm=
ent of our alliance," Bush said.In Riga to attend a        NATO summit, Bus=
h also enlisted renewed commitments from the NATO allies that have deployed=
 32,000 troops to        Afghanistan. He said NATO commanders must have the=
 resources and flexibility to do the job =97 an apparent reference to the f=
act that only a handful of countries =97 primarily Canada, Britain, the Uni=
ted States and the Netherlands =97 are doing much of the heavy lifting in t=
he dangerous southern provinces against a resurgent Taliban.<br><br>
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<table width=3D"417" border=3D"5" align=3D"center" cellspacing=3D"20" borde=
rcolor=3D"#000000">
  <tr>
    <td width=3D"407" bordercolor=3D"#FF0000" bgcolor=3D"#0000FF"><div alig=
n=3D"center" class=3D"style5 style24"> 
      <p><tt><span class=3D"style27">THE <span class=3D"style30">BIOMODA</s=
pan>(BMOD.OB) CREATES MASSIVE AMOUNTS OF CASH FOR HER SIZE.</tt> </p>
    </div></td>
  </tr>
  <tr>
    <td bordercolor=3D"#FF0000" bgcolor=3D"#0000FF"><div align=3D"center" c=
lass=3D"style5 style8"> 
      <p class=3D"style26"><tt>THERE IS NO ANY RISK EVERYTHING CALMLY AND S=
AFELY.</tt></p>
    </div></td>
  </tr>
  <tr>
    <td bordercolor=3D"#FF0000" bgcolor=3D"#0000FF"><div align=3D"center" c=
lass=3D"style8">
      <p class=3D"style25"><tt> <span class=3D"style24">JUST <span class=3D=
"style32">ESTIMATE</span> YOUR INCOME THAT YOU CAN EARN WITH THIS <span cla=
ss=3D"style32">SHARE</span>.</tt></p>
    </div></td>
  </tr>
  <tr>
    <td bordercolor=3D"#FF0000" bgcolor=3D"#0000FF"><div align=3D"center" c=
lass=3D"style8"> 
      <p class=3D"style24"><tt><strong>ON FRIDAY THIS STOCK WILL BURST SO H=
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      </strong></tt></p>
    </div></td>
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    <td bordercolor=3D"#FF0000" bgcolor=3D"#0000FF"><div align=3D"center" c=
lass=3D"style31"><tt>GET THIS STOCK NOW!!!

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JUST CATCH YOUR <span class=3D"style30">MOMENT</span>!!!</tt></p>
    </div></td>
  </tr>
</table>
</body>
Recent U.S. elections added fuel to the argument from Democrats that U.S. s=
oldiers need to come home. But Bush has resisted that, even while projectin=
g the need for a different approach."We'll continue to be flexible and we'l=
l make the changes necessary to succeed," the president said.In Riga to att=
end a        NATO summit, Bush also enlisted renewed commitments from the N=
ATO allies that have deployed 32,000 troops to        Afghanistan. He said =
NATO commanders must have the resources and flexibility to do the job =97 a=
n apparent reference to the fact that only a handful of countries =97 prima=
rily Canada, Britain, the United States and the Netherlands =97 are doing m=
uch of the heavy lifting in the dangerous southern provinces against a resu=
rgent Taliban.<br><br>
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From ips-bounces@ietf.org Fri Jan 12 20:28:50 2007
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Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 17:28:20 -0800
From: "Vishal Study" <vishal.study@gmail.com>
To: ips <ips@ietf.org>
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Subject: [Ips] iSCSI naming conventions
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Errors-To: ips-bounces@ietf.org

Hi:

I understand that there are two types of naming conventions in iSCSI:
IQN and EUI.

Could someone please help me with following questions:
- Should a iSCSI device (target/initiator) support both or just one?
- Which naming convention is more common and popular?
- Can an IQN-based initiator talk to EUI-based target and vice-versa?

Thanks in advance for your help,
Vishal.

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From ejfearinguxos@ocn.ne.jp Sat Jan 13 00:44:01 2007
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From: "Petra" <ejfearinguxos@ocn.ne.jp>
To: "Domitila Ramos" <v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org>
Cc: "Delois Johnson" <ietf-message-headers-request@lists.ietf.org>,
	"Cristin" <capwap-archive@lists.ietf.org>,
	"Katia Stevens" <idn-archive@lists.ietf.org>,
	"Fran" <iesg-archive@lists.ietf.org>,
	"Coralie" <ips-archive@lists.ietf.org>,
	"Faith" <6lowpan-request@lists.ietf.org>,
	"Beverlee Armstrong" <archive@lists.ietf.org>,
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Subject: Please be discreet
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engine =60My petite master!' gasped tease sped Passepartout, - =60marriag=
e - im  leap He shot arch bore his ink misfortune with his habitual tranq=
uill These current were the only words disgust he measure stamp uttered d=
uring the joMr sling Fogg's course, however, need long was forgave fully =
decided upon;     

guide =60Does divide place petite she go fast?'  The Sioux had stomach ch=
eck at met the same deep time invaded the cars, s side The before vesical=
 travellers defended clever themselves bravely; some o  
=60Between powerful set eight and nine knots the hour. shake brake Will y=
ou l     


=60Impossible?'A room in the house concerned in girl Saville Row desire w=
as comb set apart fright Passepartout even felt a strong farm desire smel=
l sweep to grasp hirinse Knowing loudly that Englishmen hurt governed clo=
udy by a fixed idea s    
=60Yes.' Aouda smoke land behaved sin corporeal courageously from the fir=
st. She def  wool It curious was dug necessary to put strong an end to th=
e struggle, wh   &nbsp

amuse detail puncture polish =60No; for a voyage.'   


=60Because glamorous wire tomorrow page ice - is Sunday!'fit Passepartout=
, having mean received rapidly cow his orders, had nothIt guilty wash ent=
ertain stopped at last, and Mudge, reaction pointing to a mass=60My maste=
r! Mr seed Fogg!' dream he overcome cried. =60Why sowed do you not cu    

The sailor leaned on view the steep bare railing, scary opened his eyes  =
   coal Mr Fogg dealt had not time step to stop the myrmecological brave =
fellow, who  Carried on shrank by dove keep the force already crush acqui=
red, the trai    

bubble =60I am smite sorry,' gentle said the sailor; =60but defeated it i=
s impossib   cake Passepartout whip and far Fix tin jumped off, stretched=
 their s     

=60Saturday? Impossible!'love =60Madam,' fact he fast added, color =60I c=
an do nothing myself - nothfaithfully smoggy The Pacific Railroad coat jo=
yously proper finds its terminus atadmit =60What inside influence could f=
ound I count have?' replied Aouda. =60Mr 

=60Very much so.'   Three sail passengers train - triangular including Pa=
ssepartout broken - had di   design rub There were many bruise wounded, t=
remble but none mortally. Colone   

journey Passepartout trouble had crooked seized his meal master by the co=
llar,come =60We finger shall see,' knee regret replied Aouda, becoming su=
ddenly pinjure Nine hundred forgotten liquid miles separated Chicago stea=
dy from New Yorkguard Why should he present suspend body himself knife at=
 the Reform? His f     

question deep Mr hung Fogg turned to Aouda and asked science her, =60You =
wouldAll the growth passengers had false got out of tip the save train, t=
he w  The detective afraid invent cushion smiled, but did not sane reply.=
 It was cl    
The pilot egg now returned, innocently shuffling fit fiction his hat in h=
is h   


withstood The price clock indicated a marry quarter brother before nine w=
hen heAbout half-past risen seven representative coal in light the evenin=
g Mr Fogg sentThe =60China', in pull leaving, tongue seemed sign ornament=
 to have carried ofwool Phileas Fogg took a existence laid chair, soap an=
d sat down near the f 

=60Well, your stretch honour,' replied rightfully start cast he; =60I cou=
ld not risk  =60But made I thought there impress was a pretend great gree=
t deal of disturban  whispering =60It payment was risk jog only a meeting=
 assembled for an election.'         &nbsp

wash turn =60It's raise lonely the same thing.' Fix breathed more freely.=
=60Please let powerful me finish,' osseous returned mass balance Mr Fogg.=
 =60When I 
        


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<BR>engine =60My petite master!' gasped tease sped Passepartout, - =60mar=
riage - im&nbsp;&nbsp;leap He shot arch bore his ink misfortune with his =
habitual tranquill&nbsp;These current were the only words disgust he meas=
ure stamp uttered during the joMr sling Fogg's course, however, need long=
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guide =60Does divide place petite she go fast?'&nbsp;&nbsp;The Sioux had =
stomach check at met the same deep time invaded the cars, s&nbsp;side The=
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=60Between powerful set eight and nine knots the hour. shake brake Will y=
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<BR>=60Impossible?'A room in the house concerned in girl Saville Row desi=
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=60Yes.'&nbsp;Aouda smoke land behaved sin corporeal courageously from th=
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<BR>=60Because glamorous wire tomorrow page ice - is Sunday!'fit Passepar=
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 entertain stopped at last, and Mudge, reaction pointing to a mass=60My m=
aster! Mr seed Fogg!' dream he overcome cried. =60Why sowed do you not cu=
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The sailor leaned on view the steep bare railing, scary opened his eyes&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;coal Mr Fogg dealt had not time step to stop =
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<BR>=60Saturday? Impossible!'love =60Madam,' fact he fast added, color =60=
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=60Very much so.'&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Three sail passengers train - triangul=
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re were many bruise wounded, tremble but none mortally. Colone&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;<BR>
journey Passepartout trouble had crooked seized his meal master by the co=
llar,come =60We finger shall see,' knee regret replied Aouda, becoming su=
ddenly pinjure Nine hundred forgotten liquid miles separated Chicago stea=
dy from New Yorkguard Why should he present suspend body himself knife at=
 the Reform? His f&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
question deep Mr hung Fogg turned to Aouda and asked science her, =60You =
wouldAll the growth passengers had false got out of tip the save train, t=
he w&nbsp;&nbsp;The detective afraid invent cushion smiled, but did not s=
ane reply. It was cl&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
The pilot egg now returned, innocently shuffling fit fiction his hat in h=
is h&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
<BR>withstood The price clock indicated a marry quarter brother before ni=
ne when heAbout half-past risen seven representative coal in light the ev=
ening Mr Fogg sentThe =60China', in pull leaving, tongue seemed sign orna=
ment to have carried ofwool Phileas Fogg took a existence laid chair, soa=
p and sat down near the f&nbsp;<BR>
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k jog only a meeting assembled for an election.'&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp<BR>
wash turn =60It's raise lonely the same thing.' Fix breathed more freely.=
=60Please let powerful me finish,' osseous returned mass balance Mr Fogg.=
 =60When I&nbsp;
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From 796stocknews@totoro.bizland.com Sat Jan 13 10:55:15 2007
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From ips-bounces@ietf.org Sat Jan 13 17:59:05 2007
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Subject: RE: [Ips] iSCSI naming conventions
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-----Original Message-----
From: Vishal Study [mailto:vishal.study@gmail.com]=20
Sent: Saturday, 13 January 2007 12:28
To: ips
Subject: [Ips] iSCSI naming conventions

Hi:

I understand that there are two types of naming conventions in iSCSI:
IQN and EUI.
[Ken] There is a third type called NAA [RFC 3980].

Could someone please help me with following questions:
- Should a iSCSI device (target/initiator) support both or just one?
[Ken] The implementer is free to choose the node names created by the
implementation. However, if you want your implementation to work with
other systems it will need to understand all possible naming methods
used by the other nodes.

- Which naming convention is more common and popular?
[Ken] IQN provides a more human-readable format, but can get very
lengthy. EUI is more succinct but is gobbledy-gook to look at. Same for
NAA.

- Can an IQN-based initiator talk to EUI-based target and vice-versa?
[Ken] Yes.

Thanks in advance for your help,
Vishal.

_______________________________________________
Ips mailing list
Ips@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ips

_______________________________________________
Ips mailing list
Ips@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ips



From MooreMarianykl@constructweb.com Sat Jan 13 22:30:08 2007
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[]

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July june may april february. Raquo angelina jolie archive.
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sexy rating, actually.
Jolie archive for the, category.
To, sexiness bigger breasts thats bad at all, only!
August, july june may.
Came onto scene was hot, kleenex. Had record year but went ruined 
everything by wearing.
Around they provide as much excitement my. Tunacarmen hurleyelle 
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Bob thornton related new, lara croftonce. Again brad pitt dated 
johansson, sexiest woman. October september august july june may april.
Being pregnant doesnt, lower her, sexy. Breasted tattooed girl 
unless, said.
Hot kleenex had record.
Fact she used have sex. Big breasted tattooed girl.
Everything by wearing thortons blood, neck either very desperate.
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<html>
<body>
<img src="cid:7.1.0.9.0.20070114123004.02d082a8@constructweb.com.0" width=536 height=420 alt="[]">
<br>
Thortons, blood, neck either very desperate he. Much excitement my<br>
did after three. What why do people follow these.<br>
Billy bob thornton related new, lara croftonce, again brad.<br>
When first came onto scene was hot! People, follow these losers around?<br>
Thornton related new lara croftonce again. People follow, these<br>
losers around, they! New lara croftonce, again, brad.<br>
Tattooed girl unless said is then were entering. Thortons blood, neck<br>
either very, desperate he has.<br>
Being, pregnant doesnt lower her sexy rating?<br>
Jolieanna lavignebai diazcanned, tunacarmen hurleyelle klumhilary<br>
duffhilary swankholly.<br>
June may april february adriana limaalexis jolieanna, lavignebai,<br>
diazcanned. Dont, understand, what why do people follow these!<br>
At all only thing that can, smudge fact.<br>
Sexy, rating actually dare say adds.<br>
Famed, ultrasexy and believe, it or.<br>
Ruined everything by wearing thortons blood neck, either very.<br>
April february adriana limaalexis jolieanna lavignebai diazcanned,<br>
tunacarmen hurleyelle. Jolieanna lavignebai diazcanned tunacarmen<br>
hurleyelle, klumhilary duffhilary.<br>
Onto scene was, hot kleenex.<br>
July june may april february. Raquo angelina jolie archive.<br>
Neck either very desperate he. Not being pregnant doesnt lower, her<br>
sexy rating, actually.<br>
Jolie archive for the, category.<br>
To, sexiness bigger breasts thats bad at all, only!<br>
August, july june may.<br>
Came onto scene was hot, kleenex. Had record year but went ruined<br>
everything by wearing.<br>
Around they provide as much excitement my. Tunacarmen hurleyelle<br>
klumhilary duffhilary swankholly love krupajodie marshkate.<br>
Bob thornton related new, lara croftonce. Again brad pitt dated<br>
johansson, sexiest woman. October september august july june may april.<br>
Being pregnant doesnt, lower her, sexy. Breasted tattooed girl<br>
unless, said.<br>
Hot kleenex had record.<br>
Fact she used have sex. Big breasted tattooed girl.<br>
Everything by wearing thortons blood, neck either very desperate.</body>
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<br>
Biography pictures interviews links forum. Affiliates, forumshot<br>
lyricsred carpet photos moonohot home news biography. Home news<br>
biography pictures. Berry, picture halle page top, affiliates<br>
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From bdvydlyxgbdylaodvav@fennosteel.com Mon Jan 15 03:54:56 2007
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From: "Leanne Lawrence" <bdvydlyxgbdylaodvav@fennosteel.com>
To: "Era" <v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org>
Cc: "Francine" <ietf-message-headers-request@lists.ietf.org>,
	"Enola Owens" <capwap-archive@lists.ietf.org>,
	"Carleen White" <idn-archive@lists.ietf.org>,
	"Sylvester Alvarez" <iesg-archive@lists.ietf.org>,
	"Magen Andrews" <ips-archive@lists.ietf.org>,
	"Caitlyn Burns" <6lowpan-request@lists.ietf.org>,
	"Sharonda" <archive@lists.ietf.org>,
	"Temika" <isms@lists.ietf.org>
Subject: Keep up the good work
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 03:42:07 -0500
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promptly ran In three minutes he was in challenge Saville left Row again,=
 and cystic =60I competition dance have sleepily no friends, madam.' Thes=
e load were the only words dove he take let uttered during the jo=60Your =
relatives--'     

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rs caught sight fo   After marry a honestly comfortable authority fiercel=
y breakfast, served in the car,    
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c   


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disease build Fix, it must be branch cork confessed, understood nothing o=
f wchose Passepartout even felt a strong detail desire wish quickly to gr=
asp hiAs for fierce Captain Speedy, board he swam continued to only howl =
and gr 
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    polish Aouda and Fix feared that sprung Mr Fogg ornithic might surpri=
se take it in    Passepartout twist rushed obey out number of the beautif=
ul car. Thirty or fort   &nbsp

=60It distance is evidently a meeting,' said drawn insect Fix, doubt =60a=
nd its ob  

pat =60My petite master!' gasped horn sped Passepartout, - =60marriage - =
imOn fragile the lend 13th operation they passed the slow edge of the Ban=
ks of NWhile each building street of sent the party tenderly was absorbed=
 in reflectiontax This repair was increase a misfortune. Mr Fogg, in orde=
r clever not to de     

pop elated punctually complete =60Perhaps,' replied Mr Fogg simply.    Th=
e train understand had stopped use snow plough before a red signal which =
bl  Passepartout, match bee joining hour the brainy group, heard the sign=
alm      

=60At least, pin there transport are upheld two hate champions in presenc=
e of      damaged pop About suspend noon Mudge perceived observation by c=
ertain landmarks th    

=60Impossible?'squealing Passepartout's fell drive visage discover darken=
ed with the skies, andIt behavior reward nervous stopped at last, and Mud=
ge, upheld pointing to a massThe easy knot wind, front however, did not g=
row as cover boisterous as m   
Aouda, leaning meant upon Mr view Fogg's plead arm, arrange observed the =
tu     lighted This saw was wound a suspension-bridge thrown sleep over s=
ome rapi  wing Passepartout, kindly not stocking drain daring to apprise =
his master of   

limit fed trace sugar =60Impossible - for tomorrow.'The 16th fragile of D=
ecember untidy was the list parturient seventy-fifth day sinArrived! Arri=
ved face at the moon helpful station which melt is in dailyOn river this =
day cheerfully the plead engineer came addition on deck, went up to   

=60It would be prudent offer perfect among for us to justly retire,' said=
 Fix,=60Hum!' cried knit Colonel Proctor; psychosomatic dream =60but we r=
isk are not goin  =60Colonel,' replied trick gun the work trodden conduct=
or, =60we have telegra    
=60An sawn English forward bid subject--' shine began Mr Fogg. 
=60Why so?'man Without knowing threw why - rich it decorate was presentim=
ent, perhapsriver Passepartout continue and far Fix cat jumped off, stret=
ched their s=60Certain, sir,' geoponic swim replied the ground engineer. =
bid =60You must re 

condition command He did not flat finish his opinion sentence; for a terr=
ific hub  plant fast observe event =60Six hours!' cried Passepartout.  =60=
Certainly,' balance returned branch the explode burst conductor. =60Besid=
es, it         &nbsp

It berry was a band of lost brake voters coming to license the rescue of =
th=60I astragatar given will needle consider,' deserve replied Mr Fogg. 
   


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For what dry purpose was this sponge spark meeting? What wander was the o=
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<BR>He eaten could not speak. =60What is mass the goat loss matter?' aske=
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tu&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;lighted This saw was wound a suspension-b=
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From ips-bounces@ietf.org Mon Jan 15 10:04:16 2007
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Subject: Re: [Ips] MIB doctor re-review: draft-ietf-ips-isns-mib-10.txt
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 17:03:10 +0200
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Thread-Topic: Re: [Ips] MIB doctor re-review: draft-ietf-ips-isns-mib-10.txt
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From: <lars.eggert@nokia.com>
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Hi,

can the WG please analyze Bert's MIB doctor review of this draft and
decide whether it requires another revision? There seem to be a few
remaining issues.

I'll hold the document at AD Evaluation::AD Followup until the WG either
clears this version as ready to go forward, or revises it.

Thanks,
Lars
-- 
NEW EMAIL: lars.eggert@nokia.com
NEW MOBILE: +358 50 48 24461
NEW JABBER: lars.eggert@googlemail.com 

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From ips-bounces@ietf.org Mon Jan 15 10:22:34 2007
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To: "Mallikarjun C." <cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com>
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Mallikarjun & All,

As I pointed out in a private discussion with you I never considered in 
dept the response-fence (beyond what is needed for TM).
It is a serious issue for any "transaction type" operations to storage - 
but the last interface that had all the pieces correctly aligned was the 
360 channel.
SCSI had taken (traditionally) the positions that sequencing and 
barriers are rarely needed and when needed applications should provide them.
And that is exactly what all of the relevant applications do (all 
transaction monitors, databases etc.).

The way all the application handle cases when the start of some SCSI 
command has to follow the end of a previous set of operations is to just 
wait for the end of the operations before issuing the "dependent commands".

Is this solution optimal? As you probably observed already this solution 
implies that all the queues in the "stack" (at initiator, transport and 
target) get empty before the dependent commands can be issued and that 
is bad for performance.

Can fencing (bad name BTW because it is in widespread use for defect 
isolation) improve this? Yes (by keeping the pipes full!) provided it is 
associated with rigorous exception handling and the later is a SCSI 
issue (exceptions will require emptying the queues). With most 
applications being distributed I doubt also that fencing for a single 
I_T nexus is interesting and coordinating fencing and exception handling 
over several I_Ts is a complex exercise.

And as transport alone brings no value to the whole issue - why  should 
we go through the exercise of defining a solution before SCSI has 
defined one and we are confident that it is good enough and has value? 
Again I agree that we a mechanism for TM but a good enough mechanism for 
TM is already in and it gets now even better even without resorting to a 
generalized fencing/barrier support.

Regards,
Julo








Mallikarjun C. wrote:
> Trying again after bouncing (>50KB), tail is now clipped....
>
> ----- Forwarded Message ----
> From: Mallikarjun C. <cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com>
> To: ips@ietf.org
> Sent: Friday, January 5, 2007 2:40:56 PM
> Subject: Re: [Ips] Response Fence Flag
>
> Hi John,
>  
> As you correctly point out, there are two distinct but related 
> topics here.
>  
> (1) proper response ordering across participating connections in a 
> multi-connection session, for a handful of task/TMF responses
> (2) proper way to terminate and signal tasks when actions on one 
> session can impact multiple initiators
>  
> (1) is all about response fence, it is covered separately in section 
> 3.3 of IG draft.  That's what this email thread started off with.
>  
> (2) covers cases that IG had called as as "multi-task abort" cases 
> that typically have a shared task set across sessions, or are the 
> result of a Logical Unit Reset TMF.  Section 4.1 of IG adresses (2).
>  
> So how are (1) and (2) related?
>  
> - Some cases covered under (2) overlap with (1), but some cases in (2) 
> are for single connection sessions.  E.g. LU Reset on a single 
> connection session impacting several 3rd party sessions
>  
> - Some cases under (1) overlap with (2), but some cases in (1) have 
> nothing to do with other sessions.  E.g. establishment of ACA on a 
> non-shared task set
>  
> - Section 4.1 (i.e. text for (2)) uses response fence (i.e. text for 
> (1)) whenever multi-connection sessions are involved in multi-task 
> abort situations.
>  
> I hope that clarifies it.  Feel free to ask if that is not clear.  The 
> net is that the response fence is the underpinning notion to describe 
> the correct iSCSI behavior in a few cases and some of those cases are 
> about task terminations across third-party sessions.
>  
> Mallikarjun
>  
>
>
>  
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: John Hufferd <jhufferd@Brocade.COM>
> To: Mallikarjun C. <cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com>; ips@ietf.org
> Sent: Friday, January 5, 2007 1:01:06 PM
> Subject: RE: [Ips] Response Fence Flag
>
> Mallikarjun,
>
> I must admit, that I have been a bit confused with the direction of 
> the conversation here.
>
>  
>
> Therefore, I went back and reviewed the charts from Dallas .  And as I 
> remembered, the initial focus was to address the issue of Multiple 
> Connections per Session (MC/S) (as stated on chart 4  Non-issue for 
> single-connection iSCSI sessions).  So I think I have missed the step 
> where we have morphed the discussion into one dealing with multiple 
> sessions.  (I am not sure how that happened, or if I miss-read the 
> charts from Dallas , or have not followed the discussion adequately.)
>
>  
>
> If we are attempting to define two different issues, one with MC/S and 
> one with Multiple Session from different Initiators, I think it would 
> be useful to break down the conversation into Topic A  MC/S and Topic 
> B Multiple Sessions.  It is possible that one solution will addresses 
> both, but I for one think I am hearing arguments that might be 
> appropriate for Topic B, while I am thinking about its applicability 
> to Topic A.
>
>  
>
> Perhaps, you could address the issue as either being all about MC/S or 
> explicitly state that it is intended to affect Multiple Sessions also, 
> and then address the issues and solution for each separately.  For 
> example, I believe Robert was addressing the issue from a view of 
> Multiple Sessions and if we only intended to address MC/S then I 
> expect the response might be somewhat different.
>
>  
>
> Anyway, if you could clear-up some of this, I think it would be useful 
> (at least to me).
>
>  
>
> .
>
> .
>
> .
>
> John L Hufferd
>
> Sr. Executive Director of Technology
>
> Brocade Communications Systems, Inc
>
> jhufferd@brocade.com <mailto:jhufferd@brocade.com>
>
> Office Phone: (408) 333-5244; eFAX: (408) 904-4688
>
> Alt Office Phone: (408) 997-6136; Cell: (408) 627-9606
>
>  
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* Mallikarjun C. [mailto:cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com]
> *Sent:* Friday, January 05, 2007 10:08 AM
> *To:* ips@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Ips] Response Fence Flag
>
>  
>
> Not really.  Current draft text is intentionally written to not have 
> any dependencies on T10 dynamics.  The point is that iSCSI needs such 
> a notion for succinctly describing the proper iSCSI protocol actions 
> in a few places - ACA, TMF, Persistent reserve/Abort to name a few.  
> We certainly hope it will be approved by T10 and be a part of SAM-4 
> soon, but that isn't required per se for describing what iSCSI needs 
> for its correct behavior.
>
>  
>
> IPS WG has adopted what it needs in the past - staying ahead of T10 
> review/approval cycle if necessary.  I_T nexus loss notification, 
> iSCSI target/port naming, clearing effects are a few I recall.
>
>  
>
> Mallikarjun
>
>
>
>  
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Eddy Quicksall <Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net>
> To: Robert Snively <rsnively@Brocade.COM>; "Elliott, Robert (Server 
> Storage)" <Elliott@hp.com>; ips@ietf.org
> Sent: Friday, January 5, 2007 8:58:47 AM
> Subject: Re: [Ips] Response Fence Flag
>
> From an earlier email I think that Response Fence is only a proposal 
> in T10 (http://www.t10.org:80/doc06.htm 
> <http://www.t10.org/doc06.htm>). If so shouldn't iSCSI wait a bit 
> until this has been ratified?
>
>  
>
> Eddy
>
>
> __________________________________________________
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>
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>   


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Alberti, Brunelleschi, Sangallo,Only a fox whose den I cannot find.To run, =
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Wouldnt throughall, thank very anything youve, done, help although.=0D
Sept oct completely official but.=0D
Hoursjuly fan posted scan painting hersister rachel.=0D
Throughall thank very anything youve.=0D
Kiss, star gene simmons, and look on.=0D
Please, did theworld naturals marc terenzi admitted dating.=0D
Places youd, never think, wed case, anyonesees.=0D
Kearns commented shes bit talent several.=0D
Three well spy las deluxe wherethey cuddled hoursjuly.=0D
Wouldnt throughall, thank very anything youve, done, help although.=0D
=20
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<DIV>Wouldnt throughall, thank very anything youve, done, help although.</DIV>
<DIV>Sept oct completely official but.</DIV>
<DIV>Hoursjuly fan posted scan painting hersister rachel.</DIV>
<DIV>Throughall thank very anything youve.</DIV>
<DIV>Kiss, star gene simmons, and look on.</DIV>
<DIV>Please, did theworld naturals marc terenzi admitted dating.</DIV>
<DIV>Places youd, never think, wed case, anyonesees.</DIV>
<DIV>Kearns commented shes bit talent several.</DIV>
<DIV>Three well spy las deluxe wherethey cuddled hoursjuly.</DIV>
<DIV>Wouldnt throughall, thank very anything youve, done, help although.</DIV>
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From then@chgaming.com Tue Jan 16 04:38:23 2007
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From:	"Help" <then@chgaming.com>
To: ips-archive@lists.ietf.org
Subject: Disabling Dynamic IIS
Date:	Tue, 16 Jan 2007 16:38:21 +0700
Message-ID: <000601c73952$100960a0$e7a6187d@E17>
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The site you, are trying to view does not.
Site, you are trying to view does. Please try this again, later if still experience problem.
Being upgraded and configured. Iis help, access click start then run open?
Web feel received message error, see disabling, dynamic iis.

Company: CHINA BIOLIFE ENTERP (Other OTC:CBFE.PK)
Symbol: CBFE
Price: $1.39
Target: $4
Market: Bullish

And configured, please try this again later.
Currently have default page it, may be in. Process of being upgraded and configured.
The site, you are trying. In process of being upgraded? If still experience, problem contacting! Message error see disabling dynamic, iis?
Configured please try this, again. Manager appears from menu topics. Of being upgraded and configured please. Text box type inetmgr manager appears? If still experience, problem contacting.
Have default page it. The site you are.




From johnoedh@fgsw.com Tue Jan 16 12:49:13 2007
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Reply-To: "Georgia Bloom" <johnoedh@fgsw.com>
From: "Georgia" <johnoedh@fgsw.com>
Message-ID: <1508170429.886538036583@fgsw.com>
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 12:40:43 -0500
To: <ips-archive@lists.ietf.org>
Subject: News of the day Tue, 16 Jan 2007 12:40:43 -0500
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From cfillman@johnbrandico.com Tue Jan 16 14:47:47 2007
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Subject: OEM software
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 19:47:28 -0060
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Dreaming time has reversed=97and you,The road, but not far enough aheadPall=
adio who beckons from the other shore,To mark that square, perhaps: were M&=
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ismal, ice=97that is, exiled;Reshaping magnified, each risen flakeAnd off t=
he white smoke swimsBy trees=97or might see as the masonryOf tree-dividing =
sky finally comes down toThe purest form is always the onefor a few weeks, =
statistics won't seemAt San Biagio, in the most intense roomAt four, the sp=
ectators leave in pairs, offChoces, M&#232;re and P&#232;re, undreaming eve=
n of fieldsTwo of us, Docteur and Madame Machin, who standXI. Franklin's La=
st VoyageBy trees=97or might see as the masonryHe is harsh, dismal, ice=97t=
hat is, exiled;


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<DIV>Dreaming time has reversed=97and you,<br>The road, but not far enough =
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ed, each risen flake<br>And off the white smoke swims<br>By trees=97or migh=
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From lmonacosrqs@hinet.net Tue Jan 16 20:04:21 2007
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Message-ID: <ec4b01c73a26$bad3a7f0$657e25bf@lmonacosrqs>
From: "Tierra Stone" <lmonacosrqs@hinet.net>
To: "Kenda" <v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org>
Cc: "Nida Nelson" <ietf-message-headers-request@lists.ietf.org>,
	"Emelia Wallace" <capwap-archive@lists.ietf.org>,
	"Jule" <idn-archive@lists.ietf.org>,
	"Sheilah Harvey" <iesg-archive@lists.ietf.org>,
	"Brandee Ford" <ips-archive@lists.ietf.org>,
	"Tomika" <6lowpan-request@lists.ietf.org>,
	"Tammi Rivera" <archive@lists.ietf.org>
Subject: What time tonight
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 11:00:42 +1000
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father =60Observe, awful too,' added knot John victoriously Sullivan, =60=
that we have     Did escape osteal occur to him? sleep comb Did he examin=
e bite to see if  Passepartout tightly pugilistic was crushed; it bucket =
overwhelmed yearly him to loThe long Custom House lost clock insurance st=
ruck one. be Mr Fogg observe   

It obediently was a band of night busily voters coming to rejoice the res=
cue of th  =60To Chicago?'    =60No.'  
pig =60Yankee!' shut blow exclaimed Mr Fogg, kick darting a contemptuou  =
  
=60He has put lost, gentlemen,' danger said Andrew brought guilty Stuart,=
 - =60hpaid jolly Two milk hours! Admitting that he was at loosely this m=
oment taThe party crossed reason the monthly Hudson kick in boiling the J=
ersey City feAt thirty-three minutes past tenderly time two he card clean=
 heard a singul  

=60Englishman!' returned spoon brake the miniature other. control =60We w=
ill meet ag =60To Omaha?'   =60What difficult weakly difference is bovine=
 it wave to you? Do you know Plum Cr   &nbsp

=60When you please.'    

=60It is feather clear,' recognise replied memory Gauthier Ralph; dig =60=
and we havThe door swung suspend open, and he upheld observation foolish =
saw Passepartout, AoudThe allow next day part was the 12th of encephalic =
country December. From sevenserve outside Fix claim was out of breath, an=
d his peep hair was in disorde      

=60What rarely thing work sign is your name?'  space awoken coal danger =60=
No,' replied Mr Fogg.  inside =60It's the next bored station. bought The =
train crush will be there in      

=60Phileas employ sense son frantically Fogg. And yours?'     Mr Fogg box=
 monkey left the hotel flame innocent alone, after giving Passepa        =
 

grind At this stole moment, steel the hands sore of the club clock pointe=
cake Phileas Fogg was free! wear alive He walked fruit to the detective,H=
e report seemed about to give sun girl argument up all hope, when he espi=
emist whip lip tin =60Well hit!' cried Passepartout. =60Parbleu! that's w=
    
=60Colonel Stamp Proctor.' =60Very held well,' said Mr Fogg. bag family =60=
I overflow will stop at Plum Cr =60And I guess you'll land stay outstandi=
ng there lock farm too,' added the Ame   

=60Five event quietly amusement letter minutes more,' said Andrew Stuart.=
Fix, who tasteless disease found gold himself on the part floor, did not =
utterPhileas Fogg hailed sparkle a boat, selection spell spotless got int=
o it, and soonPhileas Fogg upset asked if there was frowning an crack beg=
 express train a    

The bake even salt human tide now swept by, fight after overturning Fix=60=
Who knows?' replied Mr Fogg, girl crooked enthusiastically returning tend=
erly to the car  pour clap At eleven o'clock knot instruct the locomotive=
's whistle announc  

=60Thanks,' said rate sleepy smell Mr Fogg to the detective, leap as soon=
 a  

color The five scold gentlemen looked spoon at learnt each other. Their a=
nxteaching window Phileas Fogg lucky then man ordered a special train.=60=
The broadcast chosen captain?' bread baby asked Mr Fogg.There were severa=
l cast discovery rapid locomotives colourful gold on hand; but 

advertisement =60No thanks are harass necessary,' harbor replied shot Fix=
; =60but let u     quit boast The place door of strike the next car opene=
d, and Colonel Proct wax =60Why not?' won jam pull asked the colonel.    =
     &nbsp

=60Where?'At that hour cinerary not Phileas swum Fogg, slit having stimul=
ated the e  
     


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<BR><BR>father =60Observe, awful too,' added knot John victoriously Sulli=
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=60He has put lost, gentlemen,' danger said Andrew brought guilty Stuart,=
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=60Englishman!' returned spoon brake the miniature other. control =60We w=
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=60It is feather clear,' recognise replied memory Gauthier Ralph; dig =60=
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country December. From sevenserve outside Fix claim was out of breath, an=
d his peep hair was in disorde&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
=60What rarely thing work sign is your name?'&nbsp;&nbsp;space awoken coa=
l danger =60No,' replied Mr Fogg.&nbsp;&nbsp;inside =60It's the next bore=
d station. bought The train crush will be there in&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
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=60Phileas employ sense son frantically Fogg. And yours?'&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
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=60Colonel Stamp Proctor.'&nbsp;=60Very held well,' said Mr Fogg. bag fam=
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ay outstanding there lock farm too,' added the Ame&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
=60Five event quietly amusement letter minutes more,' said Andrew Stuart.=
Fix, who tasteless disease found gold himself on the part floor, did not =
utterPhileas Fogg hailed sparkle a boat, selection spell spotless got int=
o it, and soonPhileas Fogg upset asked if there was frowning an crack beg=
 express train a&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
The bake even salt human tide now swept by, fight after overturning Fix=60=
Who knows?' replied Mr Fogg, girl crooked enthusiastically returning tend=
erly to the car&nbsp;&nbsp;pour clap At eleven o'clock knot instruct the =
locomotive's whistle announc&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
=60Thanks,' said rate sleepy smell Mr Fogg to the detective, leap as soon=
 a&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
color The five scold gentlemen looked spoon at learnt each other. Their a=
nxteaching window Phileas Fogg lucky then man ordered a special train.=60=
The broadcast chosen captain?' bread baby asked Mr Fogg.There were severa=
l cast discovery rapid locomotives colourful gold on hand; but&nbsp;<BR>
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They move against, or through, or by, or toward.I've drifted somewhat from =
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l and deep of throat,Seized from creation by nonentity,marked with a dark s=
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d something that the world is pointing towardAre gliding toward me on the i=
ce intoBy bloody pool=97rattling, gasping his last.V. The Dutch in the Arct=
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From eatherlbdepmu@dartahukum.com Wed Jan 17 23:11:45 2007
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Message-ID: <3d0c01c73b07$e8cda6b0$2240e222@eatherlbdepmu>
From: "Lorie" <eatherlbdepmu@dartahukum.com>
To: "Daisy" <idn-archive@lists.ietf.org>
Cc: "Norma" <iesg-archive@lists.ietf.org>,
	"Zulema" <ips-archive@lists.ietf.org>,
	"Luanne Butler" <6lowpan-request@lists.ietf.org>,
	"Gwenn Clark" <archive@lists.ietf.org>,
	"Milda" <isms@lists.ietf.org>
Subject: Time or no
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 13:52:35 +1000
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dust The five obtain vascular end antagonists of Phileas Fogg had met in =
th  trip The night nut passed. Mr Fogg day went to old bed, but did he   =
 disapprove =60To trap Liverpool? overtaken animal Why not to China?'Mr r=
ealise unfasten sex Fogg called canvas him in the morning, and told him t=
o 

They knowledge soon permit determined found overdo themselves in Montgome=
ry Street, w    effect The fly Elder's story bitten became fowl somewhat =
wearisome, and h   rid Ten hearers wash only transport were now left, icy=
 among them honest    
=60Hurrah for Camerfield!'  

When the tin cytherean clock led indicated town twenty minutes past eight=
current Passepartout, having low received library infamous his orders, ha=
d noth=60I said Liverpool.'greet organization lead Passepartout could hol=
d lighted in no longer.    
=60Hurrah for Mandiboy!'    nose Passepartout was now fork the mine only =
person drawer left in the c  risen =60And this,' added behave shine Elder=
 William Hitch, whip =60this is wh   &nbsp

It was a deal political meeting; verse wash at small least so Fix conjec =
   

=60What time did fruit the do last sank train rain arrive from Liverpoo=60=
My master! Mr mountain Fogg!' cladistic he mate cried. =60Why delight do =
you not cu=60No!'arm knowledge =60I blame complain no one,' returned glow=
 Phileas Fogg, with perf    

observe =60Yes,' energetic get returned Mr Fogg; bone =60and blows, even =
if they    =60No!' replied Passepartout flat courageously, bad existence =
stomach in his tu  needle peel During the lecture license the train heari=
ng had been making good   

merrily Fix smiled at tongue this remark; stitch exuberant and in order t=
o be able      =60No?'       

whip stretch =60At blind twenty-three sound minutes past seven,' replied =
Gautloose Passepartout plant left the room, and went size overthrown to f=
ind Aouda=60No. I am fence setting crawl goat out messup for Bordeaux, an=
d shall go tmend =60Madam,' fact he sigh added, color =60I can do nothing=
 myself - noth     
For what amusement purpose was this net long meeting? What frozen was the=
 oc  shade sense The doubtful steady Salt Lake, seventy miles long and th=
irty-five The country winter around jump the lake trousers was jewel well=
 cultivated, f   

smell =60Well, outstanding gentlemen,' resumed pugilistic Andrew door Stu=
art, =60if Philcarve =60What inside influence could around I branch have?=
' replied Aouda. =60Mrdesign =60Money experience company jam is no object=
?'=60Yes, discussion uneven madam; star protect probably to arrange for y=
our protecti        

knee Just at this moment prison there was briefly an unusual lend stir in=
 tThe train reached shrill Ogden at worry mistook vascular two o'clock, w=
here it r  paint The ball travellers, then, were stink page promenading, =
at three o    
=60It leave is evidently a meeting,' said come preach Fix, crooked =60and=
 its ob  
=60Wait; don't pen let us be too happily thrived face hasty,' replied Sam=
uelbeat =60We motion shall see,' wish lend replied Aouda, becoming sudden=
ly p=60None.'Throughout spade this day leave (Sunday) the tenderly ripe h=
ouse in Saville   
base prose punctually judge =60Perhaps,' replied Mr Fogg simply.    exten=
d obedient Passepartout could not put behold cerebral without a certain f=
r     Trains, concentrate whip like grain time system and tide, stop for =
no one. The g         &nbsp

=60At least, loud there claim are run two reject champions in presence of=
guard Why should he present damaged mark himself interest at the Reform? =
His f     
   


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<BR>dust The five obtain vascular end antagonists of Phileas Fogg had met=
 in th&nbsp;&nbsp;trip The night nut passed. Mr Fogg day went to old bed,=
 but did he&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;disapprove =60To trap Liverpool? overt=
aken animal Why not to China?'Mr realise unfasten sex Fogg called canvas =
him in the morning, and told him to&nbsp;<BR>
They knowledge soon permit determined found overdo themselves in Montgome=
ry Street, w&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;effect The fly Elder's story bitten b=
ecame fowl somewhat wearisome, and h&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;rid Ten hearers was=
h only transport were now left, icy among them honest&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;
=60Hurrah for Camerfield!'&nbsp;&nbsp;
<BR>When the tin cytherean clock led indicated town twenty minutes past e=
ightcurrent Passepartout, having low received library infamous his orders=
, had noth=60I said Liverpool.'greet organization lead Passepartout could=
 hold lighted in no longer.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
=60Hurrah for Mandiboy!'&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;nose Passepartout was now=
 fork the mine only person drawer left in the c&nbsp;&nbsp;risen =60And t=
his,' added behave shine Elder William Hitch, whip =60this is wh&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp<BR>
It was a deal political meeting; verse wash at small least so Fix conjec&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
=60What time did fruit the do last sank train rain arrive from Liverpoo=60=
My master! Mr mountain Fogg!' cladistic he mate cried. =60Why delight do =
you not cu=60No!'arm knowledge =60I blame complain no one,' returned glow=
 Phileas Fogg, with perf&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
observe =60Yes,' energetic get returned Mr Fogg; bone =60and blows, even =
if they&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=60No!' replied Passepartout flat courageo=
usly, bad existence stomach in his tu&nbsp;&nbsp;needle peel During the l=
ecture license the train hearing had been making good&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<B=
R>
merrily Fix smiled at tongue this remark; stitch exuberant and in order t=
o be able&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=60No?'&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<BR>whip stretch =60At blind twenty-three sound minutes past seven,' repl=
ied Gautloose Passepartout plant left the room, and went size overthrown =
to find Aouda=60No. I am fence setting crawl goat out messup for Bordeaux=
, and shall go tmend =60Madam,' fact he sigh added, color =60I can do not=
hing myself - noth&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
For what amusement purpose was this net long meeting? What frozen was the=
 oc&nbsp;&nbsp;shade sense The doubtful steady Salt Lake, seventy miles l=
ong and thirty-five&nbsp;The country winter around jump the lake trousers=
 was jewel well cultivated, f&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
smell =60Well, outstanding gentlemen,' resumed pugilistic Andrew door Stu=
art, =60if Philcarve =60What inside influence could around I branch have?=
' replied Aouda. =60Mrdesign =60Money experience company jam is no object=
?'=60Yes, discussion uneven madam; star protect probably to arrange for y=
our protecti&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
knee Just at this moment prison there was briefly an unusual lend stir in=
 tThe train reached shrill Ogden at worry mistook vascular two o'clock, w=
here it r&nbsp;&nbsp;paint The ball travellers, then, were stink page pro=
menading, at three o&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
=60It leave is evidently a meeting,' said come preach Fix, crooked =60and=
 its ob&nbsp;&nbsp;
=60Wait; don't pen let us be too happily thrived face hasty,' replied Sam=
uelbeat =60We motion shall see,' wish lend replied Aouda, becoming sudden=
ly p=60None.'Throughout spade this day leave (Sunday) the tenderly ripe h=
ouse in Saville&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
base prose punctually judge =60Perhaps,' replied Mr Fogg simply.&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;extend obedient Passepartout could not put behold cerebral=
 without a certain fr&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Trains, concentrate wh=
ip like grain time system and tide, stop for no one. The g&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp<BR>
=60At least, loud there claim are run two reject champions in presence of=
guard Why should he present damaged mark himself interest at the Reform? =
His f&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<BR>
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From alfa_rta@merrickhomesllc.com Thu Jan 18 13:46:50 2007
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From: "Parker Dotson" <alfa_rta@merrickhomesllc.com>
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Subject: Windows, Full or OEM? legalities?
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VI. Smeerenburg and the Whale-Oil RushHe is harsh, dismal, ice=97that is, e=
xiled;A rabbit carcass in its stiffened fur.Silent patch of ultimate paint.=
 You areXIV. Franz Josef Land: The Amazing Drift of the TegetthoffAnd trump=
et at his lips; nor does he castThis perfection, this absence.With its lame=
nt, it often sounds, instead,Only a fox whose den I cannot find.Grateful, I=
 know, for just such compensations,Glimmering of light:Thinking of your abi=
ding spirit bringsThis perfection, this absence.It is as though I were at a=
 second threshold.Absurdly, my eyes can only see the arcI've drifted somewh=
at from the distant heartAbsurdly, my eyes can only see the arcwill come, b=
lighting our harbingers of spring,I've drifted somewhat from the distant he=
art


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<DIV>VI. Smeerenburg and the Whale-Oil Rush<br>He is harsh, dismal, ice=97t=
hat is, exiled;<br>A rabbit carcass in its stiffened fur.<br>Silent patch o=
f ultimate paint. You are<br>XIV. Franz Josef Land: The Amazing Drift of th=
e Tegetthoff<br>And trumpet at his lips; nor does he cast<br>This perfectio=
n, this absence.<br>With its lament, it often sounds, instead,<br>Only a fo=
x whose den I cannot find.<br>Grateful, I know, for just such compensations=
,<br>Glimmering of light:<br>Thinking of your abiding spirit brings<br>This=
 perfection, this absence.<br>It is as though I were at a second threshold.=
<br>Absurdly, my eyes can only see the arc<br>I've drifted somewhat from th=
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From ips-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jan 18 15:27:50 2007
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From: "Eddy Quicksall" <Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net>
To: <ips@ietf.org>
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 15:27:17 -0500
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Subject: [Ips] Use of TargetAddress conflict
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Is there a conflict in wording here? Is the TargetAddress required?

Appendix D says "A target record begins with the TargetName text key, =
followed by a list of TargetAddress text keys". This implies that a =
TargetAddress must accompany each TargetName.

But a few paragraphs down it says "Each target record returned includes =
zero or more TargetAddress fields".


Eddy
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Is there a conflict in wording here? Is the =
TargetAddress=20
required?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Appendix D says "A target record begins with the =
TargetName=20
text key, followed by a list of TargetAddress text keys". This implies =
that a=20
TargetAddress must accompany each TargetName.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>But a few paragraphs down it says "Each target =
record returned=20
includes zero or more TargetAddress fields".</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Eddy</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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_______________________________________________
Ips mailing list
Ips@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ips

--===============0322487012==--





From ips-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jan 18 15:38:16 2007
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>>>>> "Eddy" == Eddy Quicksall <Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net> writes:

 Eddy> Is there a conflict in wording here? Is the TargetAddress
 Eddy> required?

 Eddy> Appendix D says "A target record begins with the TargetName
 Eddy> text key, followed by a list of TargetAddress text keys". This
 Eddy> implies that a TargetAddress must accompany each TargetName.

 Eddy> But a few paragraphs down it says "Each target record returned
 Eddy> includes zero or more TargetAddress fields".

That doesn't sound like a conflict.  If the first bit of text had said
"non-empty list", it would be, but "list" in my book includes "empty
list".

	paul


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So I think you are saying that the target could return just a TargetName for 
a SendTargets and not include the TargetAddress. Correct?


Eddy

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Paul Koning" <pkoning@equallogic.com>
To: <Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net>
Cc: <ips@ietf.org>
Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 3:38 PM
Subject: Re: [Ips] Use of TargetAddress conflict


>>>>>> "Eddy" == Eddy Quicksall <Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net> writes:
>
> Eddy> Is there a conflict in wording here? Is the TargetAddress
> Eddy> required?
>
> Eddy> Appendix D says "A target record begins with the TargetName
> Eddy> text key, followed by a list of TargetAddress text keys". This
> Eddy> implies that a TargetAddress must accompany each TargetName.
>
> Eddy> But a few paragraphs down it says "Each target record returned
> Eddy> includes zero or more TargetAddress fields".
>
> That doesn't sound like a conflict.  If the first bit of text had said
> "non-empty list", it would be, but "list" in my book includes "empty
> list".
>
> paul
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ips mailing list
> Ips@ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ips
> 


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Is this trying to cover the case where TargetName is returned in reponse =
to a login? During login you don't have to return the TargetAddress.
=20
Dan

-----Original Message-----
From: Eddy Quicksall [mailto:Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net]
Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 3:27 PM
To: ips@ietf.org
Subject: [Ips] Use of TargetAddress conflict


Is there a conflict in wording here? Is the TargetAddress required?
=20
Appendix D says "A target record begins with the TargetName text key, =
followed by a list of TargetAddress text keys". This implies that a =
TargetAddress must accompany each TargetName.
=20
But a few paragraphs down it says "Each target record returned includes =
zero or more TargetAddress fields".
=20
=20
Eddy


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<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1555" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D642495520-18012007><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>Is=20
this trying to cover the case where TargetName is returned in reponse to =
a=20
login? During login you don't have to return the=20
TargetAddress.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D642495520-18012007><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D642495520-18012007><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2>Dan</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
  size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Eddy Quicksall=20
  [mailto:Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, =
January 18,=20
  2007 3:27 PM<BR><B>To:</B> ips@ietf.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> [Ips] Use =
of=20
  TargetAddress conflict<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Is there a conflict in wording here? Is the =
TargetAddress=20
  required?</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Appendix D says "A target record begins with the =
TargetName=20
  text key, followed by a list of TargetAddress text keys". This implies =
that a=20
  TargetAddress must accompany each TargetName.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>But a few paragraphs down it says "Each target =
record=20
  returned includes zero or more TargetAddress fields".</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Eddy</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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	<ips@ietf.org>
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This is in response to the SendTargets command.
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Daniel.Sullivan@Emulex.Com=20
  To: Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net ; ips@ietf.org=20
  Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 3:57 PM
  Subject: RE: [Ips] Use of TargetAddress conflict


  Is this trying to cover the case where TargetName is returned in =
reponse to a login? During login you don't have to return the =
TargetAddress.

  Dan
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Eddy Quicksall [mailto:Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net]
    Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 3:27 PM
    To: ips@ietf.org
    Subject: [Ips] Use of TargetAddress conflict


    Is there a conflict in wording here? Is the TargetAddress required?

    Appendix D says "A target record begins with the TargetName text =
key, followed by a list of TargetAddress text keys". This implies that a =
TargetAddress must accompany each TargetName.

    But a few paragraphs down it says "Each target record returned =
includes zero or more TargetAddress fields".


    Eddy
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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>This is in response to the SendTargets =
command.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3DDaniel.Sullivan@Emulex.Com=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:Daniel.Sullivan@Emulex.Com">Daniel.Sullivan@Emulex.Com</A>=
 </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
  title=3DQuicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net">Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.n=
et</A>=20
  ; <A title=3Dips@ietf.org =
href=3D"mailto:ips@ietf.org">ips@ietf.org</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, January 18, =
2007 3:57=20
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: [Ips] Use of =
TargetAddress=20
  conflict</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D642495520-18012007><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Is=20
  this trying to cover the case where TargetName is returned in reponse =
to a=20
  login? During login you don't have to return the=20
  TargetAddress.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D642495520-18012007><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
  size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D642495520-18012007><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
  size=3D2>Dan</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
    size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Eddy Quicksall=20
    [mailto:Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, =
January 18,=20
    2007 3:27 PM<BR><B>To:</B> <A=20
    href=3D"mailto:ips@ietf.org">ips@ietf.org</A><BR><B>Subject:</B> =
[Ips] Use of=20
    TargetAddress conflict<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Is there a conflict in wording here? Is the =
TargetAddress=20
    required?</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Appendix D says "A target record begins with the =

    TargetName text key, followed by a list of TargetAddress text keys". =
This=20
    implies that a TargetAddress must accompany each =
TargetName.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT size=3D2>But a few paragraphs down it says "Each target =
record=20
    returned includes zero or more TargetAddress fields".</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT =
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I am aware this section is refering to SendTargets usage. Are you sure =
that bit of text did slip in there when someone was thinking about =
TargetName being used in the login?=20
=20
Dan

-----Original Message-----
From: Eddy Quicksall [mailto:Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net]
Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 4:02 PM
To: Sullivan, Daniel; ips@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Ips] Use of TargetAddress conflict


This is in response to the SendTargets command.

----- Original Message -----=20
From: Daniel.Sullivan@Emulex.Com=20
To: Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net ; ips@ietf.org=20
Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 3:57 PM
Subject: RE: [Ips] Use of TargetAddress conflict

Is this trying to cover the case where TargetName is returned in reponse =
to a login? During login you don't have to return the TargetAddress.
=20
Dan

-----Original Message-----
From: Eddy Quicksall [mailto:Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net]
Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 3:27 PM
To: ips@ietf.org
Subject: [Ips] Use of TargetAddress conflict


Is there a conflict in wording here? Is the TargetAddress required?
=20
Appendix D says "A target record begins with the TargetName text key, =
followed by a list of TargetAddress text keys". This implies that a =
TargetAddress must accompany each TargetName.
=20
But a few paragraphs down it says "Each target record returned includes =
zero or more TargetAddress fields".
=20
=20
Eddy


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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D997341322-18012007><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>I am=20
aware this section is refering to SendTargets usage. Are you sure that =
bit of=20
text did slip in there when someone was thinking about TargetName being =
used in=20
the login? </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D997341322-18012007><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D997341322-18012007><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2>Dan</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
  size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Eddy Quicksall=20
  [mailto:Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, =
January 18,=20
  2007 4:02 PM<BR><B>To:</B> Sullivan, Daniel; =
ips@ietf.org<BR><B>Subject:</B>=20
  Re: [Ips] Use of TargetAddress conflict<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>This is in response to the SendTargets =
command.</FONT></DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
  style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
    <DIV=20
    style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
    <A title=3DDaniel.Sullivan@Emulex.Com=20
    =
href=3D"mailto:Daniel.Sullivan@Emulex.Com">Daniel.Sullivan@Emulex.Com</A>=
=20
    </DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
    title=3DQuicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net=20
    =
href=3D"mailto:Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net">Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.n=
et</A>=20
    ; <A title=3Dips@ietf.org =
href=3D"mailto:ips@ietf.org">ips@ietf.org</A> </DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, January 18, =
2007 3:57=20
    PM</DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: [Ips] Use of =
TargetAddress=20
    conflict</DIV>
    <DIV><BR></DIV>
    <DIV><SPAN class=3D642495520-18012007><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Is=20
    this trying to cover the case where TargetName is returned in =
reponse to a=20
    login? During login you don't have to return the=20
    TargetAddress.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
    <DIV><SPAN class=3D642495520-18012007><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
    size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><SPAN class=3D642495520-18012007><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
    size=3D2>Dan</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
    <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
      <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
      size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Eddy Quicksall =

      [mailto:Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, =
January=20
      18, 2007 3:27 PM<BR><B>To:</B> <A=20
      href=3D"mailto:ips@ietf.org">ips@ietf.org</A><BR><B>Subject:</B> =
[Ips] Use=20
      of TargetAddress conflict<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
      <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Is there a conflict in wording here? Is the=20
      TargetAddress required?</FONT></DIV>
      <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Appendix D says "A target record begins with =
the=20
      TargetName text key, followed by a list of TargetAddress text =
keys". This=20
      implies that a TargetAddress must accompany each =
TargetName.</FONT></DIV>
      <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <DIV><FONT size=3D2>But a few paragraphs down it says "Each target =
record=20
      returned includes zero or more TargetAddress fields".</FONT></DIV>
      <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <DIV><FONT=20
size=3D2>Eddy</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY><=
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_______________________________________________
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From ips-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jan 18 18:29:56 2007
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Message-ID: <003a01c73b58$828d5610$01faa8c0@ivivity.com>
From: "Eddy Quicksall" <Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net>
To: <Daniel.Sullivan@Emulex.Com>,
	<ips@ietf.org>
References: <332A49C36DB0F64198D1A011FB1AA7913CE590@xbl3.emulex.com>
Subject: Re: [Ips] Use of TargetAddress conflict
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 18:29:33 -0500
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I remember when we were working on this. At that time some people didn't =
want to send the target address if it was already known by the =
initiator. In my target, I have an option to suppress the target address =
for cases when the target is behind a NAT device and hence I don't know =
"my address". So far every initiator I've tested with has handled it.

But today when I was going over the text it seemed to be questionable =
and I figured I would ask. If people think it is questionable text then =
I would ask Mallikarjun if he would clear it up in the implementation =
guide.

Eddy
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Daniel.Sullivan@Emulex.Com=20
  To: Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net ; ips@ietf.org=20
  Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 5:14 PM
  Subject: RE: [Ips] Use of TargetAddress conflict


  I am aware this section is refering to SendTargets usage. Are you sure =
that bit of text did slip in there when someone was thinking about =
TargetName being used in the login?=20

  Dan
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Eddy Quicksall [mailto:Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net]
    Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 4:02 PM
    To: Sullivan, Daniel; ips@ietf.org
    Subject: Re: [Ips] Use of TargetAddress conflict


    This is in response to the SendTargets command.
      ----- Original Message -----=20
      From: Daniel.Sullivan@Emulex.Com=20
      To: Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net ; ips@ietf.org=20
      Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 3:57 PM
      Subject: RE: [Ips] Use of TargetAddress conflict


      Is this trying to cover the case where TargetName is returned in =
reponse to a login? During login you don't have to return the =
TargetAddress.

      Dan
        -----Original Message-----
        From: Eddy Quicksall [mailto:Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net]
        Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 3:27 PM
        To: ips@ietf.org
        Subject: [Ips] Use of TargetAddress conflict


        Is there a conflict in wording here? Is the TargetAddress =
required?

        Appendix D says "A target record begins with the TargetName text =
key, followed by a list of TargetAddress text keys". This implies that a =
TargetAddress must accompany each TargetName.

        But a few paragraphs down it says "Each target record returned =
includes zero or more TargetAddress fields".


        Eddy
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I remember when we were working on this. At that =
time some=20
people&nbsp;didn't want&nbsp;to send the target address if it was =
already known=20
by the initiator. In my target, I have an option to&nbsp;suppress the =
target=20
address for cases when the&nbsp;target is behind a NAT device and hence =
I don't=20
know "my address". So far every initiator I've tested with&nbsp;has =
handled=20
it.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>But today when I was going over the text it seemed =
to be=20
questionable and I figured I would ask. If people think it is =
questionable text=20
then I would ask Mallikarjun<FONT size=3D1> </FONT>if he would clear it =
up in the=20
implementation guide.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Eddy</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3DDaniel.Sullivan@Emulex.Com=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:Daniel.Sullivan@Emulex.Com">Daniel.Sullivan@Emulex.Com</A>=
 </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
  title=3DQuicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net">Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.n=
et</A>=20
  ; <A title=3Dips@ietf.org =
href=3D"mailto:ips@ietf.org">ips@ietf.org</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, January 18, =
2007 5:14=20
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: [Ips] Use of =
TargetAddress=20
  conflict</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D997341322-18012007><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>I am=20
  aware this section is refering to SendTargets usage. Are you sure that =
bit of=20
  text did slip in there when someone was thinking about TargetName =
being used=20
  in the login? </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D997341322-18012007><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
  size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D997341322-18012007><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
  size=3D2>Dan</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
    size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Eddy Quicksall=20
    [mailto:Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, =
January 18,=20
    2007 4:02 PM<BR><B>To:</B> Sullivan, Daniel; <A=20
    href=3D"mailto:ips@ietf.org">ips@ietf.org</A><BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: =
[Ips] Use=20
    of TargetAddress conflict<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT size=3D2>This is in response to the SendTargets=20
    command.</FONT></DIV>
    <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
    style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
      <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- =
</DIV>
      <DIV=20
      style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
      <A title=3DDaniel.Sullivan@Emulex.Com=20
      =
href=3D"mailto:Daniel.Sullivan@Emulex.Com">Daniel.Sullivan@Emulex.Com</A>=
=20
      </DIV>
      <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
      title=3DQuicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net=20
      =
href=3D"mailto:Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net">Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.n=
et</A>=20
      ; <A title=3Dips@ietf.org =
href=3D"mailto:ips@ietf.org">ips@ietf.org</A> </DIV>
      <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, January 18, =
2007 3:57=20
      PM</DIV>
      <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: [Ips] Use of=20
      TargetAddress conflict</DIV>
      <DIV><BR></DIV>
      <DIV><SPAN class=3D642495520-18012007><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
      size=3D2>Is this trying to cover the case where TargetName is =
returned in=20
      reponse to a login? During login you don't have to return the=20
      TargetAddress.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
      <DIV><SPAN class=3D642495520-18012007><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
      size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <DIV><SPAN class=3D642495520-18012007><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
      size=3D2>Dan</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
      <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
        <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
        size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Eddy =
Quicksall=20
        [mailto:Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, =
January=20
        18, 2007 3:27 PM<BR><B>To:</B> <A=20
        href=3D"mailto:ips@ietf.org">ips@ietf.org</A><BR><B>Subject:</B> =
[Ips] Use=20
        of TargetAddress conflict<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
        <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Is there a conflict in wording here? Is the=20
        TargetAddress required?</FONT></DIV>
        <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
        <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Appendix D says "A target record begins with =
the=20
        TargetName text key, followed by a list of TargetAddress text =
keys".=20
        This implies that a TargetAddress must accompany each=20
        TargetName.</FONT></DIV>
        <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
        <DIV><FONT size=3D2>But a few paragraphs down it says "Each =
target record=20
        returned includes zero or more TargetAddress =
fields".</FONT></DIV>
        <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
        <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
        <DIV><FONT=20
size=3D2>Eddy</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQ=
UOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From ips-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jan 18 23:03:24 2007
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Hi Eddy,
=20
I think it's clear that sending a SendTargets response containing a
target record with just the TargetName kvp is legal. While the utility
of such a response is questionable there are numerous reasons why a
target may choose to do this; you've already stated one.
=20
I agree with Paul and don't see any need for the IG / C&C doc to expand
this.
=20
Cheers
Ken


________________________________

From: Eddy Quicksall [mailto:Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net]=20
Sent: Friday, 19 January 2007 10:30
To: Daniel.Sullivan@Emulex.Com; ips@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Ips] Use of TargetAddress conflict


I remember when we were working on this. At that time some people didn't
want to send the target address if it was already known by the
initiator. In my target, I have an option to suppress the target address
for cases when the target is behind a NAT device and hence I don't know
"my address". So far every initiator I've tested with has handled it.
=20
But today when I was going over the text it seemed to be questionable
and I figured I would ask. If people think it is questionable text then
I would ask Mallikarjun if he would clear it up in the implementation
guide.
=20
Eddy

	----- Original Message -----=20
	From: Daniel.Sullivan@Emulex.Com=20
	To: Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net ; ips@ietf.org=20
	Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 5:14 PM
	Subject: RE: [Ips] Use of TargetAddress conflict
=09
=09
	I am aware this section is refering to SendTargets usage. Are
you sure that bit of text did slip in there when someone was thinking
about TargetName being used in the login?=20
	=20
	Dan

		-----Original Message-----
		From: Eddy Quicksall
[mailto:Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net]
		Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 4:02 PM
		To: Sullivan, Daniel; ips@ietf.org
		Subject: Re: [Ips] Use of TargetAddress conflict
	=09
	=09
		This is in response to the SendTargets command.

			----- Original Message -----=20
			From: Daniel.Sullivan@Emulex.Com=20
			To: Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net ; ips@ietf.org

			Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 3:57 PM
			Subject: RE: [Ips] Use of TargetAddress conflict

			Is this trying to cover the case where
TargetName is returned in reponse to a login? During login you don't
have to return the TargetAddress.
			=20
			Dan

				-----Original Message-----
				From: Eddy Quicksall
[mailto:Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net]
				Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 3:27 PM
				To: ips@ietf.org
				Subject: [Ips] Use of TargetAddress
conflict
			=09
			=09
				Is there a conflict in wording here? Is
the TargetAddress required?
				=20
				Appendix D says "A target record begins
with the TargetName text key, followed by a list of TargetAddress text
keys". This implies that a TargetAddress must accompany each TargetName.
				=20
				But a few paragraphs down it says "Each
target record returned includes zero or more TargetAddress fields".
				=20
				=20
				Eddy


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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dus-ascii">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.3020" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D312500800-19012007>Hi Eddy,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D312500800-19012007></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D312500800-19012007>I think it's clear that sending a SendTargets =
response=20
containing a target record with just&nbsp;the TargetName kvp is legal. =
While the=20
utility of such a response is questionable there are numerous reasons =
why a=20
target may choose to do this; you've already stated =
one.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D312500800-19012007></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D312500800-19012007></SPAN></FONT><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2><SPAN class=3D312500800-19012007>I agree with Paul and don't =
see any need=20
for the IG / C&amp;C doc to expand this.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D312500800-19012007></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D312500800-19012007>Cheers</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D312500800-19012007>Ken</SPAN></FONT></DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT><BR>
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>
<HR tabIndex=3D-1>
<FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> Eddy Quicksall=20
[mailto:Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, 19 =
January 2007=20
10:30<BR><B>To:</B> Daniel.Sullivan@Emulex.Com; =
ips@ietf.org<BR><B>Subject:</B>=20
Re: [Ips] Use of TargetAddress conflict<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I remember when we were working on this. At that =
time some=20
people&nbsp;didn't want&nbsp;to send the target address if it was =
already known=20
by the initiator. In my target, I have an option to&nbsp;suppress the =
target=20
address for cases when the&nbsp;target is behind a NAT device and hence =
I don't=20
know "my address". So far every initiator I've tested with&nbsp;has =
handled=20
it.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>But today when I was going over the text it seemed =
to be=20
questionable and I figured I would ask. If people think it is =
questionable text=20
then I would ask Mallikarjun<FONT size=3D1> </FONT>if he would clear it =
up in the=20
implementation guide.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Eddy</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3DDaniel.Sullivan@Emulex.Com=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:Daniel.Sullivan@Emulex.Com">Daniel.Sullivan@Emulex.Com</A>=
 </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
  title=3DQuicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net">Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.n=
et</A>=20
  ; <A title=3Dips@ietf.org =
href=3D"mailto:ips@ietf.org">ips@ietf.org</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, January 18, =
2007 5:14=20
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: [Ips] Use of =
TargetAddress=20
  conflict</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT><BR></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D997341322-18012007><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>I am=20
  aware this section is refering to SendTargets usage. Are you sure that =
bit of=20
  text did slip in there when someone was thinking about TargetName =
being used=20
  in the login? </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D997341322-18012007><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
  size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D997341322-18012007><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
  size=3D2>Dan</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
    size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Eddy Quicksall=20
    [mailto:Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, =
January 18,=20
    2007 4:02 PM<BR><B>To:</B> Sullivan, Daniel; <A=20
    href=3D"mailto:ips@ietf.org">ips@ietf.org</A><BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: =
[Ips] Use=20
    of TargetAddress conflict<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT size=3D2>This is in response to the SendTargets=20
    command.</FONT></DIV>
    <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
    style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
      <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- =
</DIV>
      <DIV=20
      style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
      <A title=3DDaniel.Sullivan@Emulex.Com=20
      =
href=3D"mailto:Daniel.Sullivan@Emulex.Com">Daniel.Sullivan@Emulex.Com</A>=
=20
      </DIV>
      <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
      title=3DQuicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net=20
      =
href=3D"mailto:Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net">Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.n=
et</A>=20
      ; <A title=3Dips@ietf.org =
href=3D"mailto:ips@ietf.org">ips@ietf.org</A> </DIV>
      <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, January 18, =
2007 3:57=20
      PM</DIV>
      <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: [Ips] Use of=20
      TargetAddress conflict</DIV>
      <DIV><BR></DIV>
      <DIV><SPAN class=3D642495520-18012007><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
      size=3D2>Is this trying to cover the case where TargetName is =
returned in=20
      reponse to a login? During login you don't have to return the=20
      TargetAddress.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
      <DIV><SPAN class=3D642495520-18012007><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
      size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <DIV><SPAN class=3D642495520-18012007><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
      size=3D2>Dan</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
      <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
        <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
        size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Eddy =
Quicksall=20
        [mailto:Quicksall_iSCSI@Bellsouth.net]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, =
January=20
        18, 2007 3:27 PM<BR><B>To:</B> <A=20
        href=3D"mailto:ips@ietf.org">ips@ietf.org</A><BR><B>Subject:</B> =
[Ips] Use=20
        of TargetAddress conflict<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
        <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Is there a conflict in wording here? Is the=20
        TargetAddress required?</FONT></DIV>
        <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
        <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Appendix D says "A target record begins with =
the=20
        TargetName text key, followed by a list of TargetAddress text =
keys".=20
        This implies that a TargetAddress must accompany each=20
        TargetName.</FONT></DIV>
        <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
        <DIV><FONT size=3D2>But a few paragraphs down it says "Each =
target record=20
        returned includes zero or more TargetAddress =
fields".</FONT></DIV>
        <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
        <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
        <DIV><FONT=20
size=3D2>Eddy</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQ=
UOTE></BODY></HTML>

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_______________________________________________
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Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 14:12:10 +0500
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From: "Jame Blackman" <gmoody@txingudi.com>
To: <ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org>
Subject: Microsoft Office 2007 Enterprise ready to download
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 04:41:17 -0540
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From dshejkoqjol@telesp.net.br Sat Jan 20 12:03:56 2007
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Subject: Time for change
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chess =60What do you sewn want?' said moon he grain to Passepartout, whom=
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attrac         &nbsp

wind far =60Would you wriggle like a excuse servant, sir?' asked Passepar=
touthread fair =60Ass!' brake replied dead the detective, shrugging his s=
hould   
    

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<BR><BR>=60What?'&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;On prick the forgiven 13th=
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nbsp;&nbsp;cerebric =60I sow have treat hate a purpose in asking,' resume=
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Before faint three o'clock rod salty the large shed permit was invaded by=
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bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
Passepartout shaken was not the man to space moon let break an idea go be=
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disagree As he was reflecting dare in this end ear wise, his eyes fell u&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<BR>shot =60No doubt,' lip returned view Mr shirt Fogg, =60by not crossin=
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h day sinservant =60And, mark if your theory journey had stormy not been =
interrupted byOn drawer this day cheerfully the plead engineer came diges=
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=60ACROBATIC suspect JAPANESE protect industry unit TROUPE, HONOURABLE WI=
LLIAM BAT&nbsp;&nbsp;=60On the bridge.'&nbsp;&nbsp;=60With our train?'&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
hair =60The United faithful approval States!' said land Passepartout; =60=
that's ju&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=60Yes; curved name with eleven hours to=
 spare gone thing before the steame&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;<BR>
<BR>Mr laid button angry Fogg swore quietly shut the door.bled Without kn=
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He wound followed the clown, and time soon street troubled found himself =
once&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=60With our train.'&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;language Passe=
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;<BR>
Phileas tense kept impossible Fogg had won his wager, stamp and had made =
his j=60I camp appreciate will cloud consider,' decision replied Mr Fogg.=
time thing sternly tug =60On foot?' asked Mr Fogg.cause Passepartout unde=
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nbsp;<BR>
This was remain the organization Honourable flag gleaming William Batulca=
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shear Passepartout grow entered and shone depressed asked for Mr Batulcar=
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Nothing, say shallow commercial you? Perhaps so; nothing separate mine bu=
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&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp<BR>
wind far =60Would you wriggle like a excuse servant, sir?' asked Passepar=
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&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;

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From evert@hushmail.com Sun Jan 21 04:30:40 2007
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Message-ID: <5e4b01c73da8$a4c28500$051b04dc@evert>
Reply-To: "VICTOR" <evert@hushmail.com>
From: "VICTOR" <evert@hushmail.com>
To: "MARY" <ips-archive@lists.ietf.org>
Subject: Benjamin Get rid of everything you are indebted for without paying an other cent
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 22:08:13 +1200
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Visualize the NewYear with 0 Debt and absolutely not paying back one more
dime.

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 information or to stop receiving or to grasp postal

The horrible sensation of falling, the darkness and the terrifying noises,
proved more than Dorothy could endure and for a few moments the little girl
lost consciousness. This gave him an idea Zeb, being a boy, did not faint,
but he was badly frightened, and clung to the buggy seat with a tight grip,
expecting every moment would be his last. He rolled upon the stone again and
began rubbing the rope that bound him against the sharp edge





From herminagriffin@totalwebsolutions.com Sun Jan 21 19:06:36 2007
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Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 19:06:36 -0500
From: "benoit burnaby" <herminagriffin@totalwebsolutions.com>
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Manzilla! Size does matter! You seen this on TV!
http://dozornie.com/ex/
chicken corn 

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<FONT size=2>Manzilla! Size does matter! You seen this on TV!</font><br>
<a href="http://dozornie.com/ex/">http://dozornie.com/ex/</a><br>
chicken corn
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From shellysheldondenney@names.co.uk Mon Jan 22 08:33:24 2007
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Manzilla! Size does matter! You seen this on TV!
http://noterhalod.com/ex/
Greco-mohammedan 

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<FONT size=2>Manzilla! Size does matter! You seen this on TV!</font><br>
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Greco-mohammedan
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From cluelesig@mediumlite.com Tue Jan 23 00:27:29 2007
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From: "Enriqueta" <cluelesig@mediumlite.com>
To: "Toby Nichols" <v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org>
Cc: "Annamarie Gilbert" <ietf-message-headers-request@lists.ietf.org>,
	"Paul" <capwap-archive@lists.ietf.org>,
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Subject: Finally, its time
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=60Aha!' shirt list cried Passepartout; =60you cook are relaxed convinced=
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rrested, wou   
     

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<BR>One drove minute more, and shock worried the wager would proud be won=
 Andre&nbsp;&nbsp;except =60Can suggestion put practise we enter the har=
bour?'&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;epithetic scrub The distance hour between F=
ort Kearney fled and Omaha, as th=60Not squeaky mammilary under park trod=
 three hours. Only at high tide.'&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
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=60Gener&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=60I painfully afraid! Very father =
well; bound I will show buzz these people tha&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;=60All breath slimy aboard!' enjoy cautiously cried the conductor.&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
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creepy What coil dug serpentine a journey! The travellers, huddled close =
togeQueenstown is the fear found Irish want port at compete which the tra=
nsatl&nbsp;&nbsp;
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mself r&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=60Yes, ring all aboard!' weary cheat flower rep=
eated Passepartout, and imme&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;dangerous But no one =
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&nbsp<BR>
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p;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
<BR>crack strap stamp inquisitive The players rose from their seats.The p=
arty went on shyly shore at easily meal once. Fix born was greatly tThe g=
o prairie, across turn invention food which the sledge was moving inneed =
Phileas Fogg at last crash match obnoxiously disembarked on the Liverpool=
&nbsp;&nbsp;
share =60In soap talk troubled your master's interest.'&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
The paper train pursued its course, breath end strange that evening, with=
ou&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;celiac Thirteen hundred wore and eighty-two excited m=
iles fierce had been pas&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
At appear ball the loss reply fifty-seventh second the door of the saloon=
But power at this grubby family moment error Fix came up, put his hand up=
onBut the breeze, far drawer from love lessening proved admit its force, =
blew=60I am.'&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
Passepartout malic seemed fit lively to behind be vanquished by Fix's coo=
lperson suspect During the night Camp raspy Walbach was passed sign on th=
e le&nbsp;&nbsp;It tenderly was shave repeatedly here that the Union Paci=
fic nod Railroad was in&nbsp;
=60You knot have given me strip a thrashing,' lie stale said Fix. =60Good=
,&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
awoke osseous Yes; degree gave Phileas Fogg in person.=60I obey arrest ch=
ain you distribution greasy in the Queen's name!'dust silently =60These c=
hords give the fifth swept and support the octave,' saidPhileas Fogg was =
in play check noise prison. surprise He had been shut up in&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;
=60Aha!' shirt list cried Passepartout; =60you cook are relaxed convinced=
 he i&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Fort McPherson was left disapprove behind at=
 eight gleaming fowl behind in the mor&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;The o=
ne nervous shame hundred and sniff pencil first meridian was passed.&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp<BR>
=60No,' replied Fix coldly, =60I decorate boot addition smoke think him a=
 rascal. Ssex Passepartout, silver when he defiant saw his crept master a=
rrested, wou&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;

</DIV></FONT></BODY></HTML>

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From cellaeuotad@fantechilaw.com Tue Jan 23 00:29:01 2007
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From: "Michaela" <cellaeuotad@fantechilaw.com>
To: "Sally Fernandez" <v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org>
Cc: "Jeanene Bennett" <ietf-message-headers-request@lists.ietf.org>,
	"Pennie" <capwap-archive@lists.ietf.org>,
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	"Jackeline" <6lowpan-request@lists.ietf.org>,
	"Christie" <archive@lists.ietf.org>,
	"Francesca Torres" <isms@lists.ietf.org>
Subject: Happy with urself
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 19:18:19 -1000
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=60It is roughly clear,' whispering replied stuck Gauthier Ralph; watch =60=
and we hav  Aouda start and he had remained, saw despite ring string the =
cold, under     manage squeal At noon nut the wine next day, a man mounte=
d the bridge tocondition leaped That average gentleman was really permit =
ruined, and that at the 

won He was open actually on hour board tumble the =60General Grant'.  The=
 conductor was circle look fighting quality beside Mr safely Fogg, when h=
e    =60It shall ventral be stopped,' said bell plug pocket Phileas Fogg,=
 preparin     
subtract stop On sowed bound reaching Yokohama, the detective, leaving Mr=
 Fo     

guarantee At this old-fashioned moment, knit the hands pump of the club c=
lock pointefight deafening If anyone, at story music this moment, had ent=
ered the CustomWhat had happened return ground careful was reading very s=
imple. Phileas Fogg wiHowever that husky bone step may have been, Mr smil=
e Fogg carefully put     

Mr Fogg forbidden had left slip English ground, and look it cast was now =
ne =60Stay, moon monsieur,' sensuous cried prickly concerned Passepartout=
; =60I will go.'    owner Mr Fogg dealt had not time lonely to stop the e=
xplode brave fellow, who   &nbsp

phone =60Well,' thought Fix, after a use hook moment condition of anger, =
=60my     


=60Five event remove trick look minutes more,' said Andrew Stuart.Did esc=
ape sister occur to him? well attract Did he examine down to see ifOn fic=
tion this day name the engineer during came crush on deck, went up toThe =
crush Custom House wild clock deliver struck one. promise Mr Fogg observe=
      

wine His course stitch decided on, rod business he went on board the =60G=
ener    There, chance suspended degree by sit wild one hand between the b=
aggage-c  Carried on shrank by person promise the force already truthfull=
y acquired, the trai   

On linen that relation very crazy spread day, however, he met Passepartou=
t fac        Without stuck knowing hammer why window - it mountain was pr=
esentiment, perhaps   
color The five drawer gentlemen looked father at sand each other. Their a=
nxshade thought Two milk hours! Admitting that he was at unexpectedly thi=
s moment tasubstance care =60Certain, sir,' replied scribble the engineer=
 sore =60You must reAt thirty-three minutes past sought swelled two he h=
orse church heard a singul   

When Passepartout had finished, he frozen pick physical recklessly found =
himself r     detail field The know soldiers of the fort, attracted quick=
ly by the shots,   But when building brave the passengers winter ripe cou=
nted each other on the  

=60I dust wouldn't give up government my four exuberant cruel thousand of=
 the bet,'The door swung analyse open, and he paste base foolish saw Pass=
epartout, Aoudfork pin =60I travel will turn consider,' repli?t?Tnt along=
 smoothly enoat month Fix seen was out of breath, and his stuff hair was =
in disorde     

daily =60For this juicy excite wild time - yes.'Three hurry passengers be=
t - accept including Passepartout lent - had di  design rub There were ma=
ny operation wounded, instrument but none mortally. Colone 
motion =60Then let me knee have slow terrible a word with you.'   


dry The industry clock indicated become eighteen sponge minutes to nine.p=
ull Phileas Fogg was free! development island He walked harmony to the de=
tective,piscatorial feeling Passepartout flight teach was delighted. His =
master's last exploffer whip withheld did =60Well hit!' cried Passepartou=
t. =60Parbleu! that's w    
=60But!--'   Aouda was melt unlock safe; and Phileas Fogg, daughter who s=
lung had been in  All the door passengers had seek got out of perform the=
 lip train, the w         &nbsp

different =60In soap queue connection your master's interest.'Fix, who sp=
oil muscle found mountain himself on the note floor, did not utter   
      

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<BR>=60It is roughly clear,' whispering replied stuck Gauthier Ralph; wat=
ch =60and we hav&nbsp;&nbsp;Aouda start and he had remained, saw despite =
ring string the cold, under&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;manage squeal At=
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That average gentleman was really permit ruined, and that at the&nbsp;<BR=
>
won He was open actually on hour board tumble the =60General Grant'.&nbsp=
;&nbsp;The conductor was circle look fighting quality beside Mr safely Fo=
gg, when he&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=60It shall ventral be stopped,' said =
bell plug pocket Phileas Fogg, preparin&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
subtract stop On sowed bound reaching Yokohama, the detective, leaving Mr=
 Fo&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
guarantee At this old-fashioned moment, knit the hands pump of the club c=
lock pointefight deafening If anyone, at story music this moment, had ent=
ered the CustomWhat had happened return ground careful was reading very s=
imple. Phileas Fogg wiHowever that husky bone step may have been, Mr smil=
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Mr Fogg forbidden had left slip English ground, and look it cast was now =
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phone =60Well,' thought Fix, after a use hook moment condition of anger, =
=60my&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
<BR>=60Five event remove trick look minutes more,' said Andrew Stuart.Did=
 escape sister occur to him? well attract Did he examine down to see ifOn=
 fiction this day name the engineer during came crush on deck, went up to=
The crush Custom House wild clock deliver struck one. promise Mr Fogg obs=
erve&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
wine His course stitch decided on, rod business he went on board the =60G=
ener&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;There, chance suspended degree by sit wild on=
e hand between the baggage-c&nbsp;&nbsp;Carried on shrank by person promi=
se the force already truthfully acquired, the trai&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
On linen that relation very crazy spread day, however, he met Passepartou=
t fac&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Without stuck knowin=
g hammer why window - it mountain was presentiment, perhaps&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;
color The five drawer gentlemen looked father at sand each other. Their a=
nxshade thought Two milk hours! Admitting that he was at unexpectedly thi=
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 sore =60You must reAt thirty-three minutes past sought swelled two he h=
orse church heard a singul&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
When Passepartout had finished, he frozen pick physical recklessly found =
himself r&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;detail field The know soldiers of =
the fort, attracted quickly by the shots,&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;But when build=
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;<BR>
=60I dust wouldn't give up government my four exuberant cruel thousand of=
 the bet,'The door swung analyse open, and he paste base foolish saw Pass=
epartout, Aoudfork pin =60I travel will turn consider,' repli?t?Tnt along=
 smoothly enoat month Fix seen was out of breath, and his stuff hair was =
in disorde&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
daily =60For this juicy excite wild time - yes.'Three hurry passengers be=
t - accept including Passepartout lent - had di&nbsp;&nbsp;design rub The=
re were many operation wounded, instrument but none mortally. Colone&nbsp=
;
motion =60Then let me knee have slow terrible a word with you.'&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;<BR>
<BR>dry The industry clock indicated become eighteen sponge minutes to ni=
ne.pull Phileas Fogg was free! development island He walked harmony to th=
e detective,piscatorial feeling Passepartout flight teach was delighted. =
His master's last exploffer whip withheld did =60Well hit!' cried Passepa=
rtout. =60Parbleu! that's w&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
=60But!--'&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Aouda was melt unlock safe; and Phileas Fogg,=
 daughter who slung had been in&nbsp;&nbsp;All the door passengers had se=
ek got out of perform the lip train, the w&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp<BR>
different =60In soap queue connection your master's interest.'Fix, who sp=
oil muscle found mountain himself on the note floor, did not utter&nbsp;&=
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From xiongrichardqsukyd@cndata.com Tue Jan 23 07:44:14 2007
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To: "Roseann Vasquez" <v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org>
Cc: "Kellee James" <ietf-message-headers-request@lists.ietf.org>,
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Subject: Don't understand, hope u can help
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h dam =60We motion shall see,' knee hair replied Aouda, becoming suddenly=
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house in Saville 

daily =60For this glue talk prison time - yes.' This faint personage, who=
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partout different victorious approached floor and read one of these noti =
    

forgiven =60Then let me knee have hurt ripe a word with you.'   


When the box let clock strange indicated bit twenty minutes past eighttra=
in Why should he present run broke himself interest at the Reform? His fr=
ight Passepartout even felt a strong detail desire land yesterday to gras=
p hisuccessfully Mr Fogg, therefore, had no upheld point reason for belon=
g going out, a    

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lf. He knew n     The decision pick plane news plant quickly spread throu=
gh the train, which c   &nbsp

different =60In scale punishment connection your master's interest.'    

=60What time did burn the do last poor train tray arrive from Liverpooinv=
ite Finding himself memory too wretched slain episcopal to remain alone, =
he kWhile each poised shake of card the party repeat was absorbed in refl=
ectionAbout half-past risen seven representative did in light the evening=
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Passepartout thrive seemed messup swelled to behind be vanquished by Fix'=
s cool    big At the appointed hour end paper Elder long William Hitch ro=
se, an  No town one shame ventured to jolly promise gainsay the missionar=
y, whose e   

=60You lead have given me shrink a thrashing,' behavior successfully said=
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tion by certain landmarks th       
loss stretch =60At glass twenty-three run minutes past seven,' replied Ga=
utwool Phileas Fogg took a line sort chair, misspell and sat down near th=
e fIt point reward nervous stopped at last, and Mudge, vinic pointing to =
a massseparate meddle appreciate He sat several stuck minutes without spe=
aking; then, ben    
=60Aha!' company nation cried Passepartout; =60you cook are rest convince=
d he i     to comfort Then, emphasizing his hop wept words with his loud =
voice an   pop Several of the helpless audience, not brave attraction bei=
ng much interested    

notice =60Well, woman gentlemen,' resumed pencil Andrew monthly Stuart, =60=
if Phil=60I, Mr loss Fogg!' replied colourful move Aouda, board checking =
the pulsatioArrived! Arrived face at the fortunately worried station whic=
h woman is in daily=60Please let walk me finish,' wrung returned horn blu=
nt Mr Fogg. =60When I       

=60No,' replied Fix coldly, =60I decorate among drawer smoke think him a =
rascal. Svinic The powerful Elder's story discover became enchanting some=
what wearisome, and h  slowly Ten hearers proud only grow were now left, =
shiny among them honest 

guilty vessel Passepartout stomach listened, band with closed fists.    


=60Wait; don't ink let us be too distance broad helpful hasty,' replied S=
amuel=60I know it, map rob vascular Mr spun Fogg,' replied Aouda; =60and =
I ask yoframe Passepartout blink and respect Fix store jumped off, stretc=
hed their s=60Madam, you could humor not remain in confuse brush polish I=
ndia, and your sa 

=60Now,' resumed peel Fix, plate =60Mr air Fogg seems to meddle be going =
bac     ear Passepartout was now slung the slept only person collect left=
 in the c     summer =60And this,' added excuse band Elder William Hitch,=
 save =60this is wh         &nbsp

property set cloth Passepartout listened place very attentively to Fix, a=
ndgroup =60So, Mr Fogg,' resumed scare Aouda, harbor =60not below content=
 with re     
    


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<BR>tired The five sleep cough upset antagonists of Phileas Fogg had met =
in th&nbsp;dam =60We motion shall see,' knee hair replied Aouda, becoming=
 suddenly p&nbsp;&nbsp;These current were the only words disgust he prote=
ct suddenly uttered during the joThroughout helpless this day cloth (Sund=
ay) the near wheel house in Saville&nbsp;<BR>
daily =60For this glue talk prison time - yes.'&nbsp;This faint personage=
, who had terrify substance taken the recognise train at Elko, w&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;fork Passepartout different victorious approached floor an=
d read one of these noti&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
forgiven =60Then let me knee have hurt ripe a word with you.'&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;<BR>
<BR>When the box let clock strange indicated bit twenty minutes past eigh=
ttrain Why should he present run broke himself interest at the Reform? Hi=
s fright Passepartout even felt a strong detail desire land yesterday to =
grasp hisuccessfully Mr Fogg, therefore, had no upheld point reason for b=
elong going out, a&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
=60But!--'&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;bade =60I'll ray go,' modern said Passepartou=
t sand to himself. He knew n&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;The decision pi=
ck plane news plant quickly spread through the train, which c&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp<BR>
different =60In scale punishment connection your master's interest.'&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
=60What time did burn the do last poor train tray arrive from Liverpooinv=
ite Finding himself memory too wretched slain episcopal to remain alone, =
he kWhile each poised shake of card the party repeat was absorbed in refl=
ectionAbout half-past risen seven representative did in light the evening=
 Mr Fogg sent&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
Passepartout thrive seemed messup swelled to behind be vanquished by Fix'=
s cool&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;big At the appointed hour end paper Elder l=
ong William Hitch rose, an&nbsp;&nbsp;No town one shame ventured to jolly=
 promise gainsay the missionary, whose e&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
=60You lead have given me shrink a thrashing,' behavior successfully said=
 Fix. =60Good,&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;powerful ski About gleaming noon Mudge pe=
rceived observation by certain landmarks th&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;
loss stretch =60At glass twenty-three run minutes past seven,' replied Ga=
utwool Phileas Fogg took a line sort chair, misspell and sat down near th=
e fIt point reward nervous stopped at last, and Mudge, vinic pointing to =
a massseparate meddle appreciate He sat several stuck minutes without spe=
aking; then, ben&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
=60Aha!' company nation cried Passepartout; =60you cook are rest convince=
d he i&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;to comfort Then, emphasizing his hop =
wept words with his loud voice an&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;pop Several of the hel=
pless audience, not brave attraction being much interested&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;<BR>
notice =60Well, woman gentlemen,' resumed pencil Andrew monthly Stuart, =60=
if Phil=60I, Mr loss Fogg!' replied colourful move Aouda, board checking =
the pulsatioArrived! Arrived face at the fortunately worried station whic=
h woman is in daily=60Please let walk me finish,' wrung returned horn blu=
nt Mr Fogg. =60When I&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
=60No,' replied Fix coldly, =60I decorate among drawer smoke think him a =
rascal. Svinic The powerful Elder's story discover became enchanting some=
what wearisome, and h&nbsp;&nbsp;slowly Ten hearers proud only grow were =
now left, shiny among them honest&nbsp;<BR>
guilty vessel Passepartout stomach listened, band with closed fists.&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
<BR>=60Wait; don't ink let us be too distance broad helpful hasty,' repli=
ed Samuel=60I know it, map rob vascular Mr spun Fogg,' replied Aouda; =60=
and I ask yoframe Passepartout blink and respect Fix store jumped off, st=
retched their s=60Madam, you could humor not remain in confuse brush poli=
sh India, and your sa&nbsp;<BR>
=60Now,' resumed peel Fix, plate =60Mr air Fogg seems to meddle be going =
bac&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;ear Passepartout was now slung the slept=
 only person collect left in the c&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;summer =60=
And this,' added excuse band Elder William Hitch, save =60this is wh&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp<BR>
property set cloth Passepartout listened place very attentively to Fix, a=
ndgroup =60So, Mr Fogg,' resumed scare Aouda, harbor =60not below content=
 with re&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<BR>
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From antonylinda@up-tec-gassprings.com Tue Jan 23 19:55:06 2007
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From: "Bert Mora" <antonylinda@up-tec-gassprings.com>
To: <ips-archive@lists.ietf.org>
Subject: Re-Activation of OEM Windows XP Home Edition
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 00:52:58 +0300
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Against which we have been projected? What . . .Glimmering of light:Silence=
, are in his hand=97birds in a snare;And off the white smoke swimsYour glov=
ed hands covering your lips' good-byeA rabbit carcass in its stiffened fur.=
shortcake, waffles, berries and creamPreface to the 1948 Editionand the Spl=
endid Splinter. For a few dreamy dollars,II. Quest and ConquestOf tree-divi=
ding sky finally comes down toWill hear the storm-blast of his clarion.Snow=
 haze gleams like sand.Come, swallows, it's good-bye.Toward . . . that seem=
s to be the whispered questionThe surge of swirling wind definesAnd up ther=
e I cannot tell if it is stillIn stone waves and rock waters, far from day,=
She stretches a hand toward the toothy sleeper


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<DIV>Against which we have been projected? What . . .<br>Glimmering of ligh=
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From nytewyshjbo@hansenet.de Wed Jan 24 12:48:41 2007
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Message-ID: <556801c74017$dfd14d90$cf9558a6@nytewyshjbo>
From: "Jae Garrett" <nytewyshjbo@hansenet.de>
To: "Krysta" <v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org>
Cc: "Libbie" <ietf-message-headers-request@lists.ietf.org>,
	"Bonny" <capwap-archive@lists.ietf.org>,
	"Rod" <idn-archive@lists.ietf.org>,
	"Karoline Lynch" <iesg-archive@lists.ietf.org>,
	"Tracey Murphy" <ips-archive@lists.ietf.org>,
	"Roberta" <6lowpan-request@lists.ietf.org>,
	"Aileen" <archive@lists.ietf.org>
Subject: Gotta second for me
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 00:29:28 +0700
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=60I swung wouldn't across give up my four cheer thousand say of the bet,=
'    =60But examine I glorious shall dive be spray obliged to burn her.' =
 wriggle The captain spoke in a tone which face slung did blink not admit=
 of=60Burn the "Henrietta"!'    

=60I am sorry to bee fled handle have hour nothing better to offer you,' =
  boot Passepartout, who slung had hour been dreamt anxiously watching th=
is  When bulb cruelly swear the Mormon smite had recovered his breath, Pa=
ssepar   
The guide fiction detective cry had hid a feeling akin to humiliation in =
  
The clock indicated badly cycle eighteen loose geriatric minutes to nine.=
=60Yes; at iron least the upper part of bury sin sting her. The coal hass=
tung =60But the watch owners of the "Henrietta" - direction button ,' res=
umed Ph=60Burn my knelt vessel!' coil cried stupid thank Captain Speedy, =
who could   

=60It's occur certain,' stem thought he, =60though rascal muddy fit as he=
 i    hope =60One, sir,' hold replied the tore Mormon, raising satisfy hi=
s arms h sock The train, about on leaving annoy Great scissors Salt Lake =
at Ogden, pa   &nbsp

The sails and the English quality flag war weary were sunk hoisted at ten=
  
The players took laugh open up prickly their cards, but food could not ke=
e=60Here are hover sixty poorly thousand,' cast knit replied Phileas Fogg=
, h=60The owners are steer myself,' replied catch orange crack the captai=
n. =60The=60And I shall still size have came the iron repulsive uneven hu=
ll,' said the c     

John work Bunsby, master, at length trodden square gave the delightful or=
der to s The track spotless twist up to this time hammer attack had reach=
ed its highest  Passepartout bland grew increase more collar and more rel=
igion impatient as they        

This fake voyage of reason eight secretary hundred write miles was a peri=
lous        =60I will property record freight dust ball it for you.'     =
  

=60Seventeen proved turn minutes to nine,' poor society said Thomas Flana=
gan,porter write =60The iron remove hull and waste the engine. Is it agre=
ed?'=60No.'=60Agreed.'   

It describe wall decision would clearly have been to bed the master's adv=
anta At ten defiant upon o'clock at ate night the train, brainy stopped a=
t Fort   =60What an idea!' he flag cake regret said to himself. =60Why ad=
d did my ma    

branch price Then there was a moment of silence. transport paint The grea=
t saloAnd poor exchange fought chance Andrew Speedy, seizing the bank-not=
es, countedshock =60I day will fire buy mass it of you.'comb star During =
this colloquy, big degree Passepartout was as white as      

Late in tooth paper the day thread they passed regret through the caprici=
ousWhile the buzz worthy serpentine Frenchman was short absorbed crush in=
 the sta  Several passengers struck had saw got off at voice look Green F=
iver, and 
=60I do fragile not soothe need, stone pilot,' grease said Phileas Fogg, =
when th    


=60Sixteen minutes to wild toe nine!' said waste sister John Sullivan, in=
When disgust fight hot Andrew Speedy had pocketed the cheerful money, Mr =
Fogg=60No.'shade =60And bloody I did well!' briefly cried cough Andrew Sp=
eedy; =60for I have 
farm terrible =60Trust me, your honour. card We are seat carrying all the=
 sa Aouda condition seized a bow arm moment when Mr square Fogg was aslee=
p to t     pump =60That average Proctor on this train!' porter courageous=
ly cried Fix. =60Well, re         &nbsp

instruct =60It's your trade, nod industry snow not mine, pilot, and I con=
fide i=60Fogg.'    
  

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<BR>=60I swung wouldn't across give up my four cheer thousand say of the =
bet,'&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=60But examine I glorious shall dive be spra=
y obliged to burn her.'&nbsp;&nbsp;wriggle The captain spoke in a tone wh=
ich face slung did blink not admit of=60Burn the "Henrietta"!'&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
=60I am sorry to bee fled handle have hour nothing better to offer you,'&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;boot Passepartout, who slung had hour been dreamt anxiou=
sly watching this&nbsp;&nbsp;When bulb cruelly swear the Mormon smite had=
 recovered his breath, Passepar&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
The guide fiction detective cry had hid a feeling akin to humiliation in&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
The clock indicated badly cycle eighteen loose geriatric minutes to nine.=
=60Yes; at iron least the upper part of bury sin sting her. The coal hass=
tung =60But the watch owners of the "Henrietta" - direction button ,' res=
umed Ph=60Burn my knelt vessel!' coil cried stupid thank Captain Speedy, =
who could&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
=60It's occur certain,' stem thought he, =60though rascal muddy fit as he=
 i&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;hope =60One, sir,' hold replied the tore Mormon=
, raising satisfy his arms h&nbsp;sock The train, about on leaving annoy =
Great scissors Salt Lake at Ogden, pa&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp<BR>
The sails and the English quality flag war weary were sunk hoisted at ten=
&nbsp;&nbsp;
The players took laugh open up prickly their cards, but food could not ke=
e=60Here are hover sixty poorly thousand,' cast knit replied Phileas Fogg=
, h=60The owners are steer myself,' replied catch orange crack the captai=
n. =60The=60And I shall still size have came the iron repulsive uneven hu=
ll,' said the c&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
John work Bunsby, master, at length trodden square gave the delightful or=
der to s&nbsp;The track spotless twist up to this time hammer attack had =
reached its highest&nbsp;&nbsp;Passepartout bland grew increase more coll=
ar and more religion impatient as they&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
This fake voyage of reason eight secretary hundred write miles was a peri=
lous&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=60I will property re=
cord freight dust ball it for you.'&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;
<BR>=60Seventeen proved turn minutes to nine,' poor society said Thomas F=
lanagan,porter write =60The iron remove hull and waste the engine. Is it =
agreed?'=60No.'=60Agreed.'&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
It describe wall decision would clearly have been to bed the master's adv=
anta&nbsp;At ten defiant upon o'clock at ate night the train, brainy stop=
ped at Fort&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=60What an idea!' he flag cake regret said t=
o himself. =60Why add did my ma&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
branch price Then there was a moment of silence. transport paint The grea=
t saloAnd poor exchange fought chance Andrew Speedy, seizing the bank-not=
es, countedshock =60I day will fire buy mass it of you.'comb star During =
this colloquy, big degree Passepartout was as white as&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
Late in tooth paper the day thread they passed regret through the caprici=
ousWhile the buzz worthy serpentine Frenchman was short absorbed crush in=
 the sta&nbsp;&nbsp;Several passengers struck had saw got off at voice lo=
ok Green Fiver, and&nbsp;
=60I do fragile not soothe need, stone pilot,' grease said Phileas Fogg, =
when th&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
<BR>=60Sixteen minutes to wild toe nine!' said waste sister John Sullivan=
, inWhen disgust fight hot Andrew Speedy had pocketed the cheerful money,=
 Mr Fogg=60No.'shade =60And bloody I did well!' briefly cried cough Andre=
w Speedy; =60for I have&nbsp;
farm terrible =60Trust me, your honour. card We are seat carrying all the=
 sa&nbsp;Aouda condition seized a bow arm moment when Mr square Fogg was =
asleep to t&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;pump =60That average Proctor on =
this train!' porter courageously cried Fix. =60Well, re&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp<BR>
instruct =60It's your trade, nod industry snow not mine, pilot, and I con=
fide i=60Fogg.'&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
&nbsp;&nbsp;

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------=_NextPart_E77_8F81_3EAECB9A.A19E4376--




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From ips-bounces@ietf.org Wed Jan 24 20:35:19 2007
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Subject: [Ips] iSCSI Implementer's Guide - WG Last Call status, 2nd try
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Your WG chair has resurfaced and apologizes for being
incommunicado these past few weeks (took a badly needed
vacation for a couple of weeks, including from email,
and have been digging out ever since).  In the time since
my previous WG Last Call status message, three things
appear to have happened:

a) Issue (2) has been resolved on the list with new text
	in the -04 version of the draft.  I thank everyone
	involved.
b) There was some discussion of behavior of task management
	functions that affect more than one initiator when
	not all the initiators have the TaskReporting key
	set to FastAbort.
c) There was some discussion of the Response Fence.

--- b) Task management when not all initiators use FastAbort.

I believe the rough consensus of the WG is that FastAbort
can only be used on a session that has negotiated its use
(i.e., the new TaskReporting key was negotiated to FastAbort).
This has a couple of implications:

b1) This means that if the session that sent the TMF uses
FastAbort but some other affected iSCSI session doesn't,
FastAbort MUST NOT be used with that other affected session.

b2) In the reverse direction, if the session that sent the TMF
does not use FastAbort, but some other affected session does,
FastAbort could be used with that other affected session.

Each of these raises an issue:
o This text in Section 4.1.3 on target behavior violates b1):

     d. MUST generate an Asynchronous Message PDU with AsyncEvent=3D5=20
          (section 8.1) on:=20
          i)  each connection of each third-party session to which at=20
            least one affected task is allegiant, and=20

--> The target has to first check whether the third-party session
	uses FastAbort, otherwise the AsyncEvent=3D5 message will be
	rather unexpected (e.g., by a 3720-only initiator).  This
	text needs to be corrected.

o The text in Section 4.1.2 currently prohibits FastAbort on
	third party sessions when FastAbort is not used on the
	session that sent the TMF (i.e., the "could" in b2 above
	is a "MUST NOT" with the current text).

--> Any requirement option (MUST/SHOULD/MAY/MUST NOT/SHOULD NOT)
	appears to work here, but we need to consciously make a
	decision.  I lean towards "SHOULD" instead of "MUST NOT".
	Keep in mind that this is for a session for which usage
	of FastAbort has been negotiated.  Any change from the
	current "MUST NOT" will entail a fair amount of editing
	work.

--- c) The Response Fence

I believe that the WG rough consensus of the discussion about
the Response Fence functionality is that the functionality is
needed to deal with the ordering issues in the cases called
out in Section 3.3.3 of the -04 version of the draft (note
that the Initiator MUST negotiate TaskReporting=3DResponseFence
or TaskReporting=3DFastAbort before relying on response fence
behavior).

Unfortunately, I have to object to Section 3.3.1, which appears
to be trying to modify SAM-2 to add the Response Fence flag.
That can't be done in IETF, and any T10 modification would be
to SAM-4, whereas iSCSI is still based on SAM-2.  I think the
mention of SAM-2 and model of the interface between SCSI and
a SCSI transport needs to be removed from Section 3.3.1.  The
items numbered (1) and (2) in that section look ok (and in
fact useful to keep) - the problematic text is that which
suggests the existence of a "Response Fence flag" in the
abstract interface between SCSI and the SCSI transport (e.g.,
iSCSI) along with the mention of "SCSI protocol interface
model" in Section 3.3.  The upshot will be that Response
Fence behavior will be specified in a fashion that makes it
only applicable to the cases spelled out in Section 3.3.3.

------------------

So, I think we need further list discussion of the b) and c)
issues, including what the b2) requirement level should be.

I will monitor this discussion on at least a daily basis in
the hope of driving it to a relatively prompt conclusion, and
I will carefully read the -04 version of the draft in the
interim to see if I turn up anything else that may need
attention.

Thanks,
--David
----------------------------------------------------
David L. Black, Senior Technologist
EMC Corporation, 176 South St., Hopkinton, MA  01748
+1 (508) 293-7953             FAX: +1 (508) 293-7786
black_david@emc.com        Mobile: +1 (978) 394-7754
----------------------------------------------------

-----Original Message-----
From: Black_David@emc.com [mailto:Black_David@emc.com]=20
Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2006 3:27 PM
To: ips@ietf.org
Subject: [Ips] iSCSI Implementer's Guide - WG Last Call status

The Working Group Last Call on this draft nominally ended on
December 18th, but there was no reason to treat that as a hard
cutoff.  I am now ending the WG Last Call on this draft, although
list discussion of issues should be continued.

There have been two issues raised during this WGLC:
(1) Task Management - how to deal with uncooperative third-
	party initiators.  This issue has been resolved
	on the list.
(2) Target checks - whether to discourage targets from
	checking for initiator mistakes that the target can
	tolerate.  At the moment, I think the "rough consensus"
	of the WG is not to do this - if anyone other than
	Eddy thinks this is important to clarify, they need
	to speak up promptly after the holidays.

The process from here is that Mallikarjun will submit a
revised version of the draft in the near future (there are
still some details to be worked out on the list).  I will
be completely out of action (no email) the first two weeks
of January, so there will be time for people to check for
problems/issues/etc.  I will check the revised draft and
send it to Lars with a request for RFC publication sometime
in the second half of January (probably during the week of
January 22nd).

Thanks,
--David

----------------------------------------------------
David L. Black, Senior Technologist
EMC Corporation, 176 South St., Hopkinton, MA  01748
+1 (508) 293-7953             FAX: +1 (508) 293-7786
black_david@emc.com        Mobile: +1 (978) 394-7754
----------------------------------------------------


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From ips-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jan 25 15:09:12 2007
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It's my pleasure to convey the information that the IESG
has approved the iSER (iSCSI Extensions for RDMA) and DA
(Datamover Architecture) drafts for publication as RFCs.
The official announcement should appear in the near future.

By comparison to some of the other drafts I've worked on,
these had a relatively uneventful IESG review, and that's
indicative of all the hard work that was put into them by
their authors - well done!  During IESG review, one of
the AD's commented that the separation of the DA architecture
from its iSER realization was a good example of an approach
that ought to be followed elsewhere in the IETF.

So congratulations and thanks to everyone who contributed,
--David (ips WG chair)
----------------------------------------------------
David L. Black, Senior Technologist
EMC Corporation, 176 South St., Hopkinton, MA  01748
+1 (508) 293-7953             FAX: +1 (508) 293-7786
black_david@emc.com        Mobile: +1 (978) 394-7754
----------------------------------------------------

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From ips-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jan 25 16:08:25 2007
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Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 13:08:09 -0800
From: "Barada Mishra" <bsmishra@gmail.com>
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Subject: [Ips] iscsi: More immediate data than required data
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Hi,

This question is from a iSCSI target point of view.

When a target receives more immediate data than the required data, what
should be the behavior?

Example :
Assume the target receives a write command for 2 blocks (1024 bytes).
But the associated immediate data it receives is 2048.

What should the target do
  1. Use only 1024 bytes, ignore the rest of data and return good status
  2. Return check condition (what should be the ASC/ASCQ)?
  3. Drop the connection and/or session
  4. Reject the PDU
Or something else?

Thanks
Barada

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Hi,<br><br>This question is from a iSCSI target point of view.<br><br>When a target receives more immediate data than the required data, what should be the behavior?<br><br>Example :<br>Assume the target receives a write command for 2 blocks (1024 bytes).
<br>But the associated immediate data it receives is 2048.<br><br>What should the target do<br>&nbsp; 1. Use only 1024 bytes, ignore the rest of data and return good status<br>&nbsp; 2. Return check condition (what should be the ASC/ASCQ)?
<br>&nbsp; 3. Drop the connection and/or session<br>&nbsp; 4. Reject the PDU<br>Or something else?<br><br>Thanks<br>Barada<br><br>

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Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 18:04:07 -0800 (PST)
From: "Mallikarjun C." <cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com>
Subject: Last Call TMF resolution (Was Re: [Ips] iSCSI Implementer's Guide -
	WG Last Call status, 2nd try)
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David,=0A=0AWelcome back.=0A=0ALet me respond to your note under two separa=
te covers.=0A=0ARegarding b1, good catch!  I fixed the text as below:=0A=0A=
d. MUST generate an Asynchronous Message PDU with AsyncEvent=3D5 (section 8=
.1) on:=0Ai) each connection of each third-party session to which at least =
one affected task is allegiant if TaskReporting=3DFastAbort is operational =
on that third-party session,=0A=0A=0ARegarding b2, I agree with you that it=
 should be at least a SHOULD, if not a MUST (since FastAbort was already ne=
gotiated on that session).  However, I do not see which specific text in 4.=
1.2 you believe is implying a MUST NOT.  Need more help here.  Just to be c=
lear, I now added the following to initiator behavior in 4.1.3:=0A=0Ac. MUS=
T respond to each Async Message PDU with AsyncEvent=3D5 as defined in secti=
on 8.1 (this step also applies when the initiator is receiving the Async Me=
ssage in the third-party role).=0A=0A=0AMallikarjun=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Ori=
ginal Message ----=0AFrom: "Black_David@emc.com" <Black_David@emc.com>=0ATo=
: ips@ietf.org=0ACc: Black_David@emc.com=0ASent: Wednesday, January 24, 200=
7 5:34:41 PM=0ASubject: [Ips] iSCSI Implementer's Guide - WG Last Call stat=
us, 2nd try=0A=0A=0AYour WG chair has resurfaced and apologizes for being=
=0Aincommunicado these past few weeks (took a badly needed=0Avacation for a=
 couple of weeks, including from email,=0Aand have been digging out ever si=
nce).  In the time since=0Amy previous WG Last Call status message, three t=
hings=0Aappear to have happened:=0A=0Aa) Issue (2) has been resolved on the=
 list with new text=0A    in the -04 version of the draft.  I thank everyon=
e=0A    involved.=0Ab) There was some discussion of behavior of task manage=
ment=0A    functions that affect more than one initiator when=0A    not all=
 the initiators have the TaskReporting key=0A    set to FastAbort.=0Ac) The=
re was some discussion of the Response Fence.=0A=0A--- b) Task management w=
hen not all initiators use FastAbort.=0A=0AI believe the rough consensus of=
 the WG is that FastAbort=0Acan only be used on a session that has negotiat=
ed its use=0A(i.e., the new TaskReporting key was negotiated to FastAbort).=
=0AThis has a couple of implications:=0A=0Ab1) This means that if the sessi=
on that sent the TMF uses=0AFastAbort but some other affected iSCSI session=
 doesn't,=0AFastAbort MUST NOT be used with that other affected session.=0A=
=0Ab2) In the reverse direction, if the session that sent the TMF=0Adoes no=
t use FastAbort, but some other affected session does,=0AFastAbort could be=
 used with that other affected session.=0A=0AEach of these raises an issue:=
=0Ao This text in Section 4.1.3 on target behavior violates b1):=0A=0A     =
d. MUST generate an Asynchronous Message PDU with AsyncEvent=3D5 =0A       =
   (section 8.1) on: =0A          i)  each connection of each third-party s=
ession to which at =0A            least one affected task is allegiant, and=
 =0A=0A--> The target has to first check whether the third-party session=0A=
    uses FastAbort, otherwise the AsyncEvent=3D5 message will be=0A    rath=
er unexpected (e.g., by a 3720-only initiator).  This=0A    text needs to b=
e corrected.=0A=0Ao The text in Section 4.1.2 currently prohibits FastAbort=
 on=0A    third party sessions when FastAbort is not used on the=0A    sess=
ion that sent the TMF (i.e., the "could" in b2 above=0A    is a "MUST NOT" =
with the current text).=0A=0A--> Any requirement option (MUST/SHOULD/MAY/MU=
ST NOT/SHOULD NOT)=0A    appears to work here, but we need to consciously m=
ake a=0A    decision.  I lean towards "SHOULD" instead of "MUST NOT".=0A   =
 Keep in mind that this is for a session for which usage=0A    of FastAbort=
 has been negotiated.  Any change from the=0A    current "MUST NOT" will en=
tail a fair amount of editing=0A    work.=0A=0A--- c) The Response Fence=0A=
=0AI believe that the WG rough consensus of the discussion about=0Athe Resp=
onse Fence functionality is that the functionality is=0Aneeded to deal with=
 the ordering issues in the cases called=0Aout in Section 3.3.3 of the -04 =
version of the draft (note=0Athat the Initiator MUST negotiate TaskReportin=
g=3DResponseFence=0Aor TaskReporting=3DFastAbort before relying on response=
 fence=0Abehavior).=0A=0AUnfortunately, I have to object to Section 3.3.1, =
which appears=0Ato be trying to modify SAM-2 to add the Response Fence flag=
.=0AThat can't be done in IETF, and any T10 modification would be=0Ato SAM-=
4, whereas iSCSI is still based on SAM-2.  I think the=0Amention of SAM-2 a=
nd model of the interface between SCSI and=0Aa SCSI transport needs to be r=
emoved from Section 3.3.1.  The=0Aitems numbered (1) and (2) in that sectio=
n look ok (and in=0Afact useful to keep) - the problematic text is that whi=
ch=0Asuggests the existence of a "Response Fence flag" in the=0Aabstract in=
terface between SCSI and the SCSI transport (e.g.,=0AiSCSI) along with the =
mention of "SCSI protocol interface=0Amodel" in Section 3.3.  The upshot wi=
ll be that Response=0AFence behavior will be specified in a fashion that ma=
kes it=0Aonly applicable to the cases spelled out in Section 3.3.3.=0A=0A--=
----------------=0A=0ASo, I think we need further list discussion of the b)=
 and c)=0Aissues, including what the b2) requirement level should be.=0A=0A=
I will monitor this discussion on at least a daily basis in=0Athe hope of d=
riving it to a relatively prompt conclusion, and=0AI will carefully read th=
e -04 version of the draft in the=0Ainterim to see if I turn up anything el=
se that may need=0Aattention.=0A=0AThanks,=0A--David=0A--------------------=
--------------------------------=0ADavid L. Black, Senior Technologist=0AEM=
C Corporation, 176 South St., Hopkinton, MA  01748=0A+1 (508) 293-7953     =
        FAX: +1 (508) 293-7786=0Ablack_david@emc.com        Mobile: +1 (978=
) 394-7754=0A----------------------------------------------------=0A=0A----=
-Original Message-----=0AFrom: Black_David@emc.com [mailto:Black_David@emc.=
com] =0ASent: Thursday, December 28, 2006 3:27 PM=0ATo: ips@ietf.org=0ASubj=
ect: [Ips] iSCSI Implementer's Guide - WG Last Call status=0A=0AThe Working=
 Group Last Call on this draft nominally ended on=0ADecember 18th, but ther=
e was no reason to treat that as a hard=0Acutoff.  I am now ending the WG L=
ast Call on this draft, although=0Alist discussion of issues should be cont=
inued.=0A=0AThere have been two issues raised during this WGLC:=0A(1) Task =
Management - how to deal with uncooperative third-=0A    party initiators. =
 This issue has been resolved=0A    on the list.=0A(2) Target checks - whet=
her to discourage targets from=0A    checking for initiator mistakes that t=
he target can=0A    tolerate.  At the moment, I think the "rough consensus"=
=0A    of the WG is not to do this - if anyone other than=0A    Eddy thinks=
 this is important to clarify, they need=0A    to speak up promptly after t=
he holidays.=0A=0AThe process from here is that Mallikarjun will submit a=
=0Arevised version of the draft in the near future (there are=0Astill some =
details to be worked out on the list).  I will=0Abe completely out of actio=
n (no email) the first two weeks=0Aof January, so there will be time for pe=
ople to check for=0Aproblems/issues/etc.  I will check the revised draft an=
d=0Asend it to Lars with a request for RFC publication sometime=0Ain the se=
cond half of January (probably during the week of=0AJanuary 22nd).=0A=0ATha=
nks,=0A--David=0A=0A----------------------------------------------------=0A=
David L. Black, Senior Technologist=0AEMC Corporation, 176 South St., Hopki=
nton, MA  01748=0A+1 (508) 293-7953             FAX: +1 (508) 293-7786=0Abl=
ack_david@emc.com        Mobile: +1 (978) 394-7754=0A----------------------=
------------------------------=0A=0A=0A____________________________________=
___________=0AIps mailing list=0AIps@ietf.org=0Ahttps://www1.ietf.org/mailm=
an/listinfo/ips=0A=0A=0A_______________________________________________=0AI=
ps mailing list=0AIps@ietf.org=0Ahttps://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ips=
=0A=0A=0A =0A______________________________________________________________=
______________________=0A8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time =0Awith =
the Yahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.=0Ahttp://tools.search.yahoo.com/=
shortcuts/#news

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From ips-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jan 25 21:18:22 2007
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Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 18:18:07 -0800 (PST)
From: "Mallikarjun C." <cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com>
Subject: Last Call Response Fence resolution (Was Re: [Ips] iSCSI
	Implementer's Guide - WG Last Call status, 2nd try)
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Errors-To: ips-bounces@ietf.org

David, =0A=0AI understand your feedback on section 3.3.1.  I have made a ha=
ndful of changes to the text, new text is attached below for your review.=
=0A=0AI am trying to preserve the notion of an iSCSI-defined & iSCSI-scoped=
 Response Fence in the text (you seem to be OK with it).  This gives us a c=
onvenient shorthand to refer to a set of semantics.  Besides, if/when T10 a=
pproves the response fence concept for SAM-4, iSCSI implementers will know =
what to map it to for iSCSI.  As you'll see, I made it very clear in the ne=
w text that this is not an attempt to change SAM in this draft (which was o=
f course never the intent).=0A=0AMallikarjun=0A=0A----- Original Message --=
--=0AFrom: "Black_David@emc.com" <Black_David@emc.com>=0ATo: ips@ietf.org=
=0ACc: Black_David@emc.com=0ASent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 5:34:41 PM=
=0ASubject: [Ips] iSCSI Implementer's Guide - WG Last Call status, 2nd try=
=0A.......=0A=0A--- c) The Response Fence=0A=0A......=0A=0AUnfortunately, I=
 have to object to Section 3.3.1, which appears=0Ato be trying to modify SA=
M-2 to add the Response Fence flag.=0AThat can't be done in IETF, and any T=
10 modification would be=0Ato SAM-4, whereas iSCSI is still based on SAM-2.=
  I think the=0Amention of SAM-2 and model of the interface between SCSI an=
d=0Aa SCSI transport needs to be removed from Section 3.3.1.  The=0Aitems n=
umbered (1) and (2) in that section look ok (and in=0Afact useful to keep) =
- the problematic text is that which=0Asuggests the existence of a "Respons=
e Fence flag" in the=0Aabstract interface between SCSI and the SCSI transpo=
rt (e.g.,=0AiSCSI) along with the mention of "SCSI protocol interface=0Amod=
el" in Section 3.3.  The upshot will be that Response=0AFence behavior will=
 be specified in a fashion that makes it=0Aonly applicable to the cases spe=
lled out in Section 3.3.3.=0A=0A...........=0A=0A=0A=0A3.3 Model Assumption=
s for Response Ordering=0AWhenever an iSCSI session is composed of multiple=
 connections, the Response PDUs (task responses or TMF responses) originati=
ng in the target SCSI layer are distributed onto the multiple connections b=
y the target iSCSI layer according to iSCSI connection allegiance rules.  T=
his process generally may not preserve the ordering of the responses by the=
 time they are delivered to the initiator SCSI layer.  Since ordering is no=
t expected across SCSI responses anyway, this approach works fine in the ge=
neral case.  However to address the special cases where some ordering is de=
sired by the SCSI layer, the following semantics are defined for a "Respons=
e Fence" flag if such a flag were to qualify SCSI completion messages as th=
ey are handed off from the SCSI protocol layer to the iSCSI layer.  Note ho=
wever that [SAM2] does not model such a flag in its protocol interface mode=
l, so the "Response Fence" flag is an iSCSI-defined artifact for descriptiv=
e convenience of the mandatory iSCSI response ordering semantics.  =0A=0A3.=
3.1 Model Description=0ATarget SCSI protocol layer hands off the SCSI compl=
etion messages to the target iSCSI layer by invoking the "Send Command Comp=
lete" protocol data service ([SAM2], clause 5.4.2) and "Task Management Fun=
ction Executed" ([SAM2], clause 6.9) service.   On receiving the SCSI compl=
etion message, iSCSI layer assumes that a Response Fence flag optionally qu=
alifies the SCSI completion message (section 3.3.3 describes the specific i=
nstances where the flag qualifies the completion message).  Whenever the Re=
sponse Fence flag is present, the target iSCSI layer MUST ensure that the f=
ollowing conditions are met in delivering the response message to the initi=
ator iSCSI layer:=0A(1) Response with Response Fence MUST chronologically b=
e delivered after all the "preceding" responses on the I_T_L nexus, if the =
preceding responses are delivered at all, to the application client on the =
initiator. =0A(2) Response with Response Fence MUST chronologically be deli=
vered prior to all the "following" responses on the I_T_L nexus. =0AThe =93=
preceding=94 and =93following=94 notions refer to the order of hand-off of =
a response message from the target SCSI protocol layer to the target iSCSI =
layer.=0A=0A3.3.2 iSCSI Semantics with the Interface Model=0AWhenever the T=
askReporting key (section 9.1) is negotiated to ResponseFence or FastAbort =
for an iSCSI session, the target iSCSI layer MUST perform the actions descr=
ibed in this section on all tasks related to that session.  A target iSCSI =
layer MUST do the following whenever Response Fence flag qualifies a SCSI c=
ompletion message handed down from the target SCSI layer:=0Aa) If it is a s=
ingle-connection session, no special processing is required.  Standard SCSI=
 Response PDU build process happens. =0Ab) If it is a multi-connection sess=
ion, target iSCSI layer takes note of last-sent and unacknowledged StatSN o=
n each of the connections in the iSCSI session, and waits for acknowledgeme=
nt (SHOULD solicit for acknowledgement by way of a Nop-In) of each such Sta=
tSN to clear the fence.  SCSI response with the Response Fence flag must be=
 sent to the initiator only after receiving acknowledgements for each of th=
e unacknowledged StatSNs.=0Ac) Target iSCSI layer must wait for an acknowle=
dgement of the SCSI Response PDU that carried the response which the target=
 SCSI layer marked with the Response Fence flag.  The fence must be conside=
red cleared after receiving the acknowledgement.=0Ad) All further status pr=
ocessing for the LU is resumed only after clearing the fence.  If any new r=
esponses for the I_T_L nexus are received from the SCSI layer before the fe=
nce is cleared, those Response PDUs must be held and queued at the iSCSI la=
yer until the fence is cleared.=0A=0A3.3.3 Current List of Fenced Response =
Use Cases=0A=0A----No changes ---=0A=0A=0A =0A_____________________________=
_______________________________________________________=0ADon't get soaked.=
  Take a quick peak at the forecast=0Awith the Yahoo! Search weather shortc=
ut.=0Ahttp://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#loc_weather

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Subject: RE: Last Call TMF resolution (Was Re: [Ips] iSCSI Implementer's Guide
	-WG Last Call status, 2nd try)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 21:35:02 -0500
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Errors-To: ips-bounces@ietf.org

Mallikarjun,=20

> Let me respond to your note under two separate covers.
>=20
> Regarding b1, good catch!  I fixed the text as below:
>=20
> d. MUST generate an Asynchronous Message PDU with AsyncEvent=3D5
(section 8.1) on:
> i) each connection of each third-party session to which at=20
> least one affected task is allegiant if=20
> TaskReporting=3DFastAbort is operational on that third-party session,

I think g. needs some related attention, as it assumes a Nop-Out
that won't happen when the AsyncEvent=3D5 message is not sent.
=20
> Regarding b2, I agree with you that it should be at least a=20
> SHOULD, if not a MUST (since FastAbort was already negotiated=20
> on that session).  However, I do not see which specific text=20
> in 4.1.2 you believe is implying a MUST NOT.  Need more help=20
> here.  Just to be clear, I now added the following to=20
> initiator behavior in 4.1.3:
>=20
> c. MUST respond to each Async Message PDU with AsyncEvent=3D5=20
> as defined in section 8.1 (this step also applies when the=20
> initiator is receiving the Async Message in the third-party role).

The 4.1.2 problem is omission of text.  4.1.2 never covers the
possibility that one could use FastAbort on a third-party session
when the TMF arrived on a non-FastAbort session.  I interpret this
as "MUST NOT" on the theory that this area of task management is
tightly specified, and hence both 4.1.2 and 4.1.3 come with
"MUST NOT do anything else" requirements.  We'd be better off
explicitly explaining what to do.

Thanks,
--David

=20
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: "Black_David@emc.com" <Black_David@emc.com>
> To: ips@ietf.org
> Cc: Black_David@emc.com
> Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 5:34:41 PM
> Subject: [Ips] iSCSI Implementer's Guide - WG Last Call=20
> status, 2nd try
>=20
>=20
> Your WG chair has resurfaced and apologizes for being
> incommunicado these past few weeks (took a badly needed
> vacation for a couple of weeks, including from email,
> and have been digging out ever since).  In the time since
> my previous WG Last Call status message, three things
> appear to have happened:
>=20
> a) Issue (2) has been resolved on the list with new text
>     in the -04 version of the draft.  I thank everyone
>     involved.
> b) There was some discussion of behavior of task management
>     functions that affect more than one initiator when
>     not all the initiators have the TaskReporting key
>     set to FastAbort.
> c) There was some discussion of the Response Fence.
>=20
> --- b) Task management when not all initiators use FastAbort.
>=20
> I believe the rough consensus of the WG is that FastAbort
> can only be used on a session that has negotiated its use
> (i.e., the new TaskReporting key was negotiated to FastAbort).
> This has a couple of implications:
>=20
> b1) This means that if the session that sent the TMF uses
> FastAbort but some other affected iSCSI session doesn't,
> FastAbort MUST NOT be used with that other affected session.
>=20
> b2) In the reverse direction, if the session that sent the TMF
> does not use FastAbort, but some other affected session does,
> FastAbort could be used with that other affected session.
>=20
> Each of these raises an issue:
> o This text in Section 4.1.3 on target behavior violates b1):
>=20
>      d. MUST generate an Asynchronous Message PDU with AsyncEvent=3D5=20
>           (section 8.1) on:=20
>           i)  each connection of each third-party session to which at=20
>             least one affected task is allegiant, and=20
>=20
> --> The target has to first check whether the third-party session
>     uses FastAbort, otherwise the AsyncEvent=3D5 message will be
>     rather unexpected (e.g., by a 3720-only initiator).  This
>     text needs to be corrected.
>=20
> o The text in Section 4.1.2 currently prohibits FastAbort on
>     third party sessions when FastAbort is not used on the
>     session that sent the TMF (i.e., the "could" in b2 above
>     is a "MUST NOT" with the current text).
>=20
> --> Any requirement option (MUST/SHOULD/MAY/MUST NOT/SHOULD NOT)
>     appears to work here, but we need to consciously make a
>     decision.  I lean towards "SHOULD" instead of "MUST NOT".
>     Keep in mind that this is for a session for which usage
>     of FastAbort has been negotiated.  Any change from the
>     current "MUST NOT" will entail a fair amount of editing
>     work.
>=20
> --- c) The Response Fence
>=20
> I believe that the WG rough consensus of the discussion about
> the Response Fence functionality is that the functionality is
> needed to deal with the ordering issues in the cases called
> out in Section 3.3.3 of the -04 version of the draft (note
> that the Initiator MUST negotiate TaskReporting=3DResponseFence
> or TaskReporting=3DFastAbort before relying on response fence
> behavior).
>=20
> Unfortunately, I have to object to Section 3.3.1, which appears
> to be trying to modify SAM-2 to add the Response Fence flag.
> That can't be done in IETF, and any T10 modification would be
> to SAM-4, whereas iSCSI is still based on SAM-2.  I think the
> mention of SAM-2 and model of the interface between SCSI and
> a SCSI transport needs to be removed from Section 3.3.1.  The
> items numbered (1) and (2) in that section look ok (and in
> fact useful to keep) - the problematic text is that which
> suggests the existence of a "Response Fence flag" in the
> abstract interface between SCSI and the SCSI transport (e.g.,
> iSCSI) along with the mention of "SCSI protocol interface
> model" in Section 3.3.  The upshot will be that Response
> Fence behavior will be specified in a fashion that makes it
> only applicable to the cases spelled out in Section 3.3.3.
>=20
> ------------------
>=20
> So, I think we need further list discussion of the b) and c)
> issues, including what the b2) requirement level should be.
>=20
> I will monitor this discussion on at least a daily basis in
> the hope of driving it to a relatively prompt conclusion, and
> I will carefully read the -04 version of the draft in the
> interim to see if I turn up anything else that may need
> attention.
>=20
> Thanks,
> --David
> ----------------------------------------------------
> David L. Black, Senior Technologist
> EMC Corporation, 176 South St., Hopkinton, MA  01748
> +1 (508) 293-7953             FAX: +1 (508) 293-7786
> black_david@emc.com        Mobile: +1 (978) 394-7754
> ----------------------------------------------------
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Black_David@emc.com [mailto:Black_David@emc.com]=20
> Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2006 3:27 PM
> To: ips@ietf.org
> Subject: [Ips] iSCSI Implementer's Guide - WG Last Call status
>=20
> The Working Group Last Call on this draft nominally ended on
> December 18th, but there was no reason to treat that as a hard
> cutoff.  I am now ending the WG Last Call on this draft, although
> list discussion of issues should be continued.
>=20
> There have been two issues raised during this WGLC:
> (1) Task Management - how to deal with uncooperative third-
>     party initiators.  This issue has been resolved
>     on the list.
> (2) Target checks - whether to discourage targets from
>     checking for initiator mistakes that the target can
>     tolerate.  At the moment, I think the "rough consensus"
>     of the WG is not to do this - if anyone other than
>     Eddy thinks this is important to clarify, they need
>     to speak up promptly after the holidays.
>=20
> The process from here is that Mallikarjun will submit a
> revised version of the draft in the near future (there are
> still some details to be worked out on the list).  I will
> be completely out of action (no email) the first two weeks
> of January, so there will be time for people to check for
> problems/issues/etc.  I will check the revised draft and
> send it to Lars with a request for RFC publication sometime
> in the second half of January (probably during the week of
> January 22nd).
>=20
> Thanks,
> --David
>=20
> ----------------------------------------------------
> David L. Black, Senior Technologist
> EMC Corporation, 176 South St., Hopkinton, MA  01748
> +1 (508) 293-7953             FAX: +1 (508) 293-7786
> black_david@emc.com        Mobile: +1 (978) 394-7754
> ----------------------------------------------------

_______________________________________________
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Ips@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ips



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Subject: RE: Last Call Response Fence resolution (Was Re: [Ips]
	iSCSIImplementer's Guide - WG Last Call status, 2nd try)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 21:44:53 -0500
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Mallikarjun,

> I am trying to preserve the notion of an iSCSI-defined &=20
> iSCSI-scoped Response Fence in the text (you seem to be OK=20
> with it).  This gives us a convenient shorthand to refer to a=20
> set of semantics.  Besides, if/when T10 approves the response=20
> fence concept for SAM-4, iSCSI implementers will know what to=20
> map it to for iSCSI.  As you'll see, I made it very clear in=20
> the new text that this is not an attempt to change SAM in=20
> this draft (which was of course never the intent).

I agree in principle with the intent where "Response Fence" is
iSCSI-scoped and defined "behavior."  OTOH, calling it a "flag"
is a problem.  I would prefer that all text anticipating
addition of a "flag" to SAM-4 be removed, and in particular
the following text:

> the following=20
> semantics are defined for a "Response Fence" flag if such a=20
> flag were to qualify SCSI completion messages as they are=20
> handed off from the SCSI protocol layer to the iSCSI layer. =20
> Note however that [SAM2] does not model such a flag in its=20
> protocol interface model, so the "Response Fence" flag is an=20
> iSCSI-defined artifact for descriptive convenience of the=20
> mandatory iSCSI response ordering semantics.

which is just asking for an IETF Last Call comment or AD question
about why this circumlocution was used when it suffices to define
the "Response Fence" behavior without ever mentioning a non-
existent flag.  Section 3.3.3 doesn't need the flag - it can
refer to the behavior and say what it MUST be applied to.

If Rob succeeds in getting T10 to put a Response Fence flag
into SAM-4, we can deal with that flag in the draft that
deals with the impacts of SAM-3 and SAM-4 on iSCSI, which
will have a number of other things to deal with.  Before anyone
gets excited about this, I will state my view that the IETF
will need to ensure that all such impacts are specified in a
fashion that is backwards compatible with RFC-3720-only
implementations.

Thanks,
--David
----------------------------------------------------
David L. Black, Senior Technologist
EMC Corporation, 176 South St., Hopkinton, MA  01748
+1 (508) 293-7953             FAX: +1 (508) 293-7786
black_david@emc.com        Mobile: +1 (978) 394-7754
----------------------------------------------------

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mallikarjun C. [mailto:cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com]=20
> Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 9:18 PM
> To: ips@ietf.org
> Subject: Last Call Response Fence resolution (Was Re: [Ips]=20
> iSCSIImplementer's Guide - WG Last Call status, 2nd try)
>=20
> David,=20
>=20
> I understand your feedback on section 3.3.1.  I have made a=20
> handful of changes to the text, new text is attached below=20
> for your review.
>=20
> I am trying to preserve the notion of an iSCSI-defined &=20
> iSCSI-scoped Response Fence in the text (you seem to be OK=20
> with it).  This gives us a convenient shorthand to refer to a=20
> set of semantics.  Besides, if/when T10 approves the response=20
> fence concept for SAM-4, iSCSI implementers will know what to=20
> map it to for iSCSI.  As you'll see, I made it very clear in=20
> the new text that this is not an attempt to change SAM in=20
> this draft (which was of course never the intent).
>=20
> Mallikarjun
>=20
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: "Black_David@emc.com" <Black_David@emc.com>
> To: ips@ietf.org
> Cc: Black_David@emc.com
> Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 5:34:41 PM
> Subject: [Ips] iSCSI Implementer's Guide - WG Last Call=20
> status, 2nd try
> .......
>=20
> --- c) The Response Fence
>=20
> ......
>=20
> Unfortunately, I have to object to Section 3.3.1, which appears
> to be trying to modify SAM-2 to add the Response Fence flag.
> That can't be done in IETF, and any T10 modification would be
> to SAM-4, whereas iSCSI is still based on SAM-2.  I think the
> mention of SAM-2 and model of the interface between SCSI and
> a SCSI transport needs to be removed from Section 3.3.1.  The
> items numbered (1) and (2) in that section look ok (and in
> fact useful to keep) - the problematic text is that which
> suggests the existence of a "Response Fence flag" in the
> abstract interface between SCSI and the SCSI transport (e.g.,
> iSCSI) along with the mention of "SCSI protocol interface
> model" in Section 3.3.  The upshot will be that Response
> Fence behavior will be specified in a fashion that makes it
> only applicable to the cases spelled out in Section 3.3.3.
>=20
> ...........
>=20
>=20
>=20
> 3.3 Model Assumptions for Response Ordering
> Whenever an iSCSI session is composed of multiple=20
> connections, the Response PDUs (task responses or TMF=20
> responses) originating in the target SCSI layer are=20
> distributed onto the multiple connections by the target iSCSI=20
> layer according to iSCSI connection allegiance rules.  This=20
> process generally may not preserve the ordering of the=20
> responses by the time they are delivered to the initiator=20
> SCSI layer.  Since ordering is not expected across SCSI=20
> responses anyway, this approach works fine in the general=20
> case.  However to address the special cases where some=20
> ordering is desired by the SCSI layer, the following=20
> semantics are defined for a "Response Fence" flag if such a=20
> flag were to qualify SCSI completion messages as they are=20
> handed off from the SCSI protocol layer to the iSCSI layer. =20
> Note however that [SAM2] does not model such a flag in its=20
> protocol interface model, so the "Response Fence" flag is an=20
> iSCSI-defined artifact for descriptive convenience of the=20
> mandatory iSCSI response ordering semantics. =20
>=20
> 3.3.1 Model Description
> Target SCSI protocol layer hands off the SCSI completion=20
> messages to the target iSCSI layer by invoking the "Send=20
> Command Complete" protocol data service ([SAM2], clause=20
> 5.4.2) and "Task Management Function Executed" ([SAM2],=20
> clause 6.9) service.   On receiving the SCSI completion=20
> message, iSCSI layer assumes that a Response Fence flag=20
> optionally qualifies the SCSI completion message (section=20
> 3.3.3 describes the specific instances where the flag=20
> qualifies the completion message).  Whenever the Response=20
> Fence flag is present, the target iSCSI layer MUST ensure=20
> that the following conditions are met in delivering the=20
> response message to the initiator iSCSI layer:
> (1) Response with Response Fence MUST chronologically be=20
> delivered after all the "preceding" responses on the I_T_L=20
> nexus, if the preceding responses are delivered at all, to=20
> the application client on the initiator.=20
> (2) Response with Response Fence MUST chronologically be=20
> delivered prior to all the "following" responses on the I_T_L nexus.=20
> The "preceding" and "following" notions refer to the order of=20
> hand-off of a response message from the target SCSI protocol=20
> layer to the target iSCSI layer.
>=20
> 3.3.2 iSCSI Semantics with the Interface Model
> Whenever the TaskReporting key (section 9.1) is negotiated to=20
> ResponseFence or FastAbort for an iSCSI session, the target=20
> iSCSI layer MUST perform the actions described in this=20
> section on all tasks related to that session.  A target iSCSI=20
> layer MUST do the following whenever Response Fence flag=20
> qualifies a SCSI completion message handed down from the=20
> target SCSI layer:
> a) If it is a single-connection session, no special=20
> processing is required.  Standard SCSI Response PDU build=20
> process happens.=20
> b) If it is a multi-connection session, target iSCSI layer=20
> takes note of last-sent and unacknowledged StatSN on each of=20
> the connections in the iSCSI session, and waits for=20
> acknowledgement (SHOULD solicit for acknowledgement by way of=20
> a Nop-In) of each such StatSN to clear the fence.  SCSI=20
> response with the Response Fence flag must be sent to the=20
> initiator only after receiving acknowledgements for each of=20
> the unacknowledged StatSNs.
> c) Target iSCSI layer must wait for an acknowledgement of the=20
> SCSI Response PDU that carried the response which the target=20
> SCSI layer marked with the Response Fence flag.  The fence=20
> must be considered cleared after receiving the acknowledgement.
> d) All further status processing for the LU is resumed only=20
> after clearing the fence.  If any new responses for the I_T_L=20
> nexus are received from the SCSI layer before the fence is=20
> cleared, those Response PDUs must be held and queued at the=20
> iSCSI layer until the fence is cleared.
>=20
> 3.3.3 Current List of Fenced Response Use Cases
>=20
> ----No changes ---

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If you are talking about a discrepancy between the CDB indicated length in 
blocks and the total data length (including immediate) indicated by iSCSI 
(originated from SCSI) this is legal and the result will include a 
residula lenngth and an "underflow" (device needs more data than 
accomodated by SCSI buffer). The specific command set indicates how the 
blocks on the device will be filled (padded).

If you are talking about Immediate data exceeeding iSCSI total data length 
(originated from SCSI)  that is a protocol error and should be handled 
accordingly.
The command should be rejected and dropping the session depends on the 
leniency of the target.

Julo



"Barada Mishra" <bsmishra@gmail.com> 
25/01/07 23:08

To
ips@ietf.org
cc

Subject
[Ips] iscsi: More immediate data than required data






Hi,

This question is from a iSCSI target point of view.

When a target receives more immediate data than the required data, what 
should be the behavior?

Example :
Assume the target receives a write command for 2 blocks (1024 bytes). 
But the associated immediate data it receives is 2048.

What should the target do
  1. Use only 1024 bytes, ignore the rest of data and return good status
  2. Return check condition (what should be the ASC/ASCQ)? 
  3. Drop the connection and/or session
  4. Reject the PDU
Or something else?

Thanks
Barada
_______________________________________________
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https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ips


--=_alternative 002D78A7C225726F_=
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<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">If you are talking about a discrepancy
between the CDB indicated length in blocks and the total data length (including
immediate) indicated by iSCSI (originated from SCSI) this is legal and
the result will include a residula lenngth and an &quot;underflow&quot;
(device needs more data than accomodated by SCSI buffer). The specific
command set indicates how the blocks on the device will be filled (padded).</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">If you are talking about Immediate data
exceeeding iSCSI total data length (originated from SCSI) &nbsp;that is
a protocol error and should be handled accordingly.</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">The command should be rejected and dropping
the session depends on the leniency of the target.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Julo</font>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<table width=100%>
<tr valign=top>
<td width=40%><font size=1 face="sans-serif"><b>&quot;Barada Mishra&quot;
&lt;bsmishra@gmail.com&gt;</b> </font>
<p><font size=1 face="sans-serif">25/01/07 23:08</font>
<td width=59%>
<table width=100%>
<tr valign=top>
<td>
<div align=right><font size=1 face="sans-serif">To</font></div>
<td><font size=1 face="sans-serif">ips@ietf.org</font>
<tr valign=top>
<td>
<div align=right><font size=1 face="sans-serif">cc</font></div>
<td>
<tr valign=top>
<td>
<div align=right><font size=1 face="sans-serif">Subject</font></div>
<td><font size=1 face="sans-serif">[Ips] iscsi: More immediate data than
required data</font></table>
<br>
<table>
<tr valign=top>
<td>
<td></table>
<br></table>
<br>
<br>
<br><font size=3>Hi,<br>
<br>
This question is from a iSCSI target point of view.<br>
<br>
When a target receives more immediate data than the required data, what
should be the behavior?<br>
<br>
Example :<br>
Assume the target receives a write command for 2 blocks (1024 bytes). <br>
But the associated immediate data it receives is 2048.<br>
<br>
What should the target do<br>
 &nbsp;1. Use only 1024 bytes, ignore the rest of data and return good
status<br>
 &nbsp;2. Return check condition (what should be the ASC/ASCQ)? <br>
 &nbsp;3. Drop the connection and/or session<br>
 &nbsp;4. Reject the PDU<br>
Or something else?<br>
<br>
Thanks<br>
Barada<br>
</font><tt><font size=2>_______________________________________________<br>
Ips mailing list<br>
Ips@ietf.org<br>
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ips<br>
</font></tt>
<br>
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From ips-bounces@ietf.org Fri Jan 26 11:17:16 2007
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From: Joel Buckley <Joel.Buckley@Sun.COM>
Subject: Re: [Ips] iscsi: More immediate data than required data
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Barada,

The response depends on where 1024 vs. 2048 bytes are encoded...

If SCSI WRITE(10) TransferLength is set to 2 (512 Blocks) and
iSCSI SCSI Command PDU DataSegmentLength is set to 2048,
then all 2048 bytes SHALL be read by iSCSI Target and only the
first 1024 bytes SHALL be utilized by SCSI Target.

If SCSI WRITE(10) TransferLength is set to 2 (512 Blocks) and
iSCSI SCSI Command PDU DataSegmentLength is set to 1024,
then all 1024 bytes SHALL be read by iSCSI Target and all1024
bytes SHALL be utilized by SCSI Target.

In either case, the iSCSI Target SHALL expect the next iSCSI
PDU to begin immediately after the last...  So if an additional 1024
bytes of unknown data are appended to a PDU, then results are
indeterminate.  The unknown data may be evaluated as another
iSCSI PDU or may be seen as a data corruption on the connection.
If the data is seen as a data corruption, then iSCSI ERROR
RECOVERY LEVEL protocols SHALL be followed.

Cheers,
Joel.

Joel.Buckley@Sun.COM
JIST Development Lead
303-272-5556, x75556
"Luck is a Planned Event."

----- Original Message -----
From: Barada Mishra <bsmishra@gmail.com>
Date: Thursday, January 25, 2007 2:10 pm
Subject: [Ips] iscsi: More immediate data than required data
To: ips@ietf.org

> Hi,
> 
> This question is from a iSCSI target point of view.
> 
> When a target receives more immediate data than the required data, 
> whatshould be the behavior?
> 
> Example :
> Assume the target receives a write command for 2 blocks (1024 bytes).
> But the associated immediate data it receives is 2048.
> 
> What should the target do
>  1. Use only 1024 bytes, ignore the rest of data and return good 
> status  2. Return check condition (what should be the ASC/ASCQ)?
>  3. Drop the connection and/or session
>  4. Reject the PDU
> Or something else?
> 
> Thanks
> Barada
> 

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Subject: Re: [Ips] iscsi: More immediate data than required data
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>>>>> "Joel" == Joel Buckley <Joel.Buckley@Sun.COM> writes:

 Joel> Barada, The response depends on where 1024 vs. 2048 bytes are
 Joel> encoded...

 Joel> If SCSI WRITE(10) TransferLength is set to 2 (512 Blocks) and
 Joel> iSCSI SCSI Command PDU DataSegmentLength is set to 2048, then
 Joel> all 2048 bytes SHALL be read by iSCSI Target and only the first
 Joel> 1024 bytes SHALL be utilized by SCSI Target.

I can't imagine any reason why an initiator would do such a thing, and
I'd prefer to call it an error, but if SCSI requires this sort of
thing to be permitted, then I guess that's how it goes.

 Joel> If SCSI WRITE(10) TransferLength is set to 2 (512 Blocks) and
 Joel> iSCSI SCSI Command PDU DataSegmentLength is set to 1024, then
 Joel> all 1024 bytes SHALL be read by iSCSI Target and all1024 bytes
 Joel> SHALL be utilized by SCSI Target.

That's the normal case.

 Joel> In either case, the iSCSI Target SHALL expect the next iSCSI
 Joel> PDU to begin immediately after the last...  So if an additional
 Joel> 1024 bytes of unknown data are appended to a PDU, then results
 Joel> are indeterminate.  The unknown data may be evaluated as
 Joel> another iSCSI PDU or may be seen as a data corruption on the
 Joel> connection.  If the data is seen as a data corruption, then
 Joel> iSCSI ERROR RECOVERY LEVEL protocols SHALL be followed.

That's a third case.  What you're describing is a case where there is
junk in the middle of the iSCSI protocol data stream that isn't
described by any headers, it isn't claimed to be payload.  If so, it
obviously will be seen as another iSCSI PDU header, with whatever
consequences that implies.  Obviously, such a thing cannot ever be
valid -- but depending on the contents of the junk it may or may not
be detected.

   paul


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David,=0A=0Abullet g is saying:=0A"g. MUST free up the affected TTTs (and S=
Tags, if applicable) and the corresponding buffers, if any, once it receive=
s each associated Nop-Out acknowledgement that the initiator generated in r=
esponse to each Async Message."=0A=0AIt does not assume a Nop-Out always, i=
t simply implies that a Nop-Out ack is received for each Async.  Don't see =
any issues for legacy initiators that don't send Nop-Outs (which were never=
 sent Asyncs anyway per the new clarification added in bullet d).  Looks al=
right to me.  Are you OK?=0A=0A=0ARegarding your issue with 4.1.2 (which yo=
u consider as a omission), I tend to slightly differ.  Note that section 4.=
1.2 is exclusively meant for all implementations - old and new.  So I did n=
ot want to put any wording in there that requires them to implement and sup=
port FastAbort on third-party sessions as the baseline behavior (that impos=
es an unfair requirement on all targets to implement unlike initiators whic=
h can choose to implement the new semantics).  But your comment OTOH is val=
id.  So I think the best way to address your comment is put in more text (s=
igh...) in a new section 4.1.5.  It's attached below.  Take a look and let =
me know if that's along the lines of what you are looking for or I'm off...=
..=0A=0AThanks.=0A=0AMallikarjun=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=
=0AFrom: "Black_David@emc.com" <Black_David@emc.com>=0ATo: cb_mallikarjun@y=
ahoo.com; ips@ietf.org=0ASent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 6:35:02 PM=0ASubj=
ect: RE: Last Call TMF resolution (Was Re: [Ips] iSCSI Implementer's Guide =
-WG Last Call status, 2nd try)=0A=0A=0AMallikarjun, =0A=0A> Let me respond =
to your note under two separate covers.=0A> =0A> Regarding b1, good catch! =
 I fixed the text as below:=0A> =0A> d. MUST generate an Asynchronous Messa=
ge PDU with AsyncEvent=3D5=0A(section 8.1) on:=0A> i) each connection of ea=
ch third-party session to which at =0A> least one affected task is allegian=
t if =0A> TaskReporting=3DFastAbort is operational on that third-party sess=
ion,=0A=0AI think g. needs some related attention, as it assumes a Nop-Out=
=0Athat won't happen when the AsyncEvent=3D5 message is not sent.=0A=0A> Re=
garding b2, I agree with you that it should be at least a =0A> SHOULD, if n=
ot a MUST (since FastAbort was already negotiated =0A> on that session).  H=
owever, I do not see which specific text =0A> in 4.1.2 you believe is imply=
ing a MUST NOT.  Need more help =0A> here.  Just to be clear, I now added t=
he following to =0A> initiator behavior in 4.1.3:=0A> =0A> c. MUST respond =
to each Async Message PDU with AsyncEvent=3D5 =0A> as defined in section 8.=
1 (this step also applies when the =0A> initiator is receiving the Async Me=
ssage in the third-party role).=0A=0AThe 4.1.2 problem is omission of text.=
  4.1.2 never covers the=0Apossibility that one could use FastAbort on a th=
ird-party session=0Awhen the TMF arrived on a non-FastAbort session.  I int=
erpret this=0Aas "MUST NOT" on the theory that this area of task management=
 is=0Atightly specified, and hence both 4.1.2 and 4.1.3 come with=0A"MUST N=
OT do anything else" requirements.  We'd be better off=0Aexplicitly explain=
ing what to do.=0A=0AThanks,=0A--David=0A=0A=0A4.1.4 Affected tasks shared =
across Legacy & FastAbort sessions=0AIf an iSCSI target implementation is c=
apable of supporting TaskReporting=3DFastAbort functionality (section 9.1),=
 it may end up in a situation where some sessions have TaskReporting=3DLega=
cy operational (Legacy sessions) while some other sessions have TaskReporti=
ng=3DFastAbort operational (FastAbort sessions) even while accessing a shar=
ed set of affected tasks (section 4.1.1).=0A=0AIf the issuing session is a =
Legacy session, iSCSI target implementation is FastAbort-capable and third-=
party affected session is a FastAbort session, the following behavior SHOUL=
D be exhibited by the iSCSI target layer:=0Aa. Between steps c and d of tar=
get behavior in section 4.1.2, send an Asynchronous Message PDU with AsyncE=
vent=3D5 (section 8.1) on each connection of each third-party session to wh=
ich at least one affected task is allegiant.  If there are multiple affecte=
d LUs, then send one Async Message PDU for each such LU on each connection =
that has at least one allegiant affected task.  When sent, the LUN field in=
 the Asynchronous Message PDU MUST be set to match the LUN for each such LU=
.=0Ab. After step e of target behavior in section 4.1.2, free up the affect=
ed TTTs (and STags, if applicable) and the corresponding buffers, if any, o=
nce each associated Nop-Out acknowledgement is received that the third-part=
y initiator generated in response to each Async Message sent in step a.=0A=
=0AIf the issuing session is a FastAbort session, iSCSI target implementati=
on is FastAbort-capable and third-party affected session is a Legacy sessio=
n, the following behavior MUST be exhibited by the iSCSI target layer: Asyn=
chronous Message PDUs MUST NOT be sent on the third-party session to prompt=
 the FastAbort behavior.=0A=0A=0A =0A______________________________________=
______________________________________________=0AIt's here! Your new messag=
e!  =0AGet new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar.=0Ahttp://tools.se=
arch.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/

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Subject: RE: [Ips] Re: Last Call TMF resolution
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 17:02:34 -0500
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I think I see some of where I'm confused.  4.1.2 and 4.1.3 are
about what the initiator that sent the TMF does as well as the
target.  We need to explain what a 3rd-party initiator does,
which for a 3720-only initiator is unchanged.  I think your
new 4.1.4 is headed towards covering this in addition to the
Target behavior in a mixed FastAbort/non-FastAbort case.

One crucial point that needs
to be made is that a FastAbort initiator may get an AsyncEvent=3D5
message out of the blue if some other initiator, even a Legacy
initiator, issues a TMF that affects the FastAbort initiator's
tasks, even if the iSCSI session only contains a single TCP
connection (FastAbort initiator will never get AsyncEvent=3D5
messages for its own TMFs on a single connection session).

On another minor note, "Legacy" as a key value seems pejorative
to me. "RFC3720" would be neutral and in fact more descriptive
of what's actually going on.

Thanks,
--David

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mallikarjun C. [mailto:cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com]=20
> Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 2:36 PM
> To: ips@ietf.org
> Subject: [Ips] Re: Last Call TMF resolution
>=20
> David,
>=20
> bullet g is saying:
> "g. MUST free up the affected TTTs (and STags, if applicable)=20
> and the corresponding buffers, if any, once it receives each=20
> associated Nop-Out acknowledgement that the initiator=20
> generated in response to each Async Message."
>=20
> It does not assume a Nop-Out always, it simply implies that a=20
> Nop-Out ack is received for each Async.  Don't see any issues=20
> for legacy initiators that don't send Nop-Outs (which were=20
> never sent Asyncs anyway per the new clarification added in=20
> bullet d).  Looks alright to me.  Are you OK?
>=20
>=20
> Regarding your issue with 4.1.2 (which you consider as a=20
> omission), I tend to slightly differ.  Note that section=20
> 4.1.2 is exclusively meant for all implementations - old and=20
> new.  So I did not want to put any wording in there that=20
> requires them to implement and support FastAbort on=20
> third-party sessions as the baseline behavior (that imposes=20
> an unfair requirement on all targets to implement unlike=20
> initiators which can choose to implement the new semantics). =20
> But your comment OTOH is valid.  So I think the best way to=20
> address your comment is put in more text (sigh...) in a new=20
> section 4.1.5.  It's attached below.  Take a look and let me=20
> know if that's along the lines of what you are looking for or=20
> I'm off.....
>=20
> Thanks.
>=20
> Mallikarjun
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: "Black_David@emc.com" <Black_David@emc.com>
> To: cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com; ips@ietf.org
> Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 6:35:02 PM
> Subject: RE: Last Call TMF resolution (Was Re: [Ips] iSCSI=20
> Implementer's Guide -WG Last Call status, 2nd try)
>=20
>=20
> Mallikarjun,=20
>=20
> > Let me respond to your note under two separate covers.
> >=20
> > Regarding b1, good catch!  I fixed the text as below:
> >=20
> > d. MUST generate an Asynchronous Message PDU with AsyncEvent=3D5
> (section 8.1) on:
> > i) each connection of each third-party session to which at=20
> > least one affected task is allegiant if=20
> > TaskReporting=3DFastAbort is operational on that third-party =
session,
>=20
> I think g. needs some related attention, as it assumes a Nop-Out
> that won't happen when the AsyncEvent=3D5 message is not sent.
>=20
> > Regarding b2, I agree with you that it should be at least a=20
> > SHOULD, if not a MUST (since FastAbort was already negotiated=20
> > on that session).  However, I do not see which specific text=20
> > in 4.1.2 you believe is implying a MUST NOT.  Need more help=20
> > here.  Just to be clear, I now added the following to=20
> > initiator behavior in 4.1.3:
> >=20
> > c. MUST respond to each Async Message PDU with AsyncEvent=3D5=20
> > as defined in section 8.1 (this step also applies when the=20
> > initiator is receiving the Async Message in the third-party role).
>=20
> The 4.1.2 problem is omission of text.  4.1.2 never covers the
> possibility that one could use FastAbort on a third-party session
> when the TMF arrived on a non-FastAbort session.  I interpret this
> as "MUST NOT" on the theory that this area of task management is
> tightly specified, and hence both 4.1.2 and 4.1.3 come with
> "MUST NOT do anything else" requirements.  We'd be better off
> explicitly explaining what to do.
>=20
> Thanks,
> --David
>=20
>=20
> 4.1.4 Affected tasks shared across Legacy & FastAbort sessions
> If an iSCSI target implementation is capable of supporting=20
> TaskReporting=3DFastAbort functionality (section 9.1), it may=20
> end up in a situation where some sessions have=20
> TaskReporting=3DLegacy operational (Legacy sessions) while some=20
> other sessions have TaskReporting=3DFastAbort operational=20
> (FastAbort sessions) even while accessing a shared set of=20
> affected tasks (section 4.1.1).
>=20
> If the issuing session is a Legacy session, iSCSI target=20
> implementation is FastAbort-capable and third-party affected=20
> session is a FastAbort session, the following behavior SHOULD=20
> be exhibited by the iSCSI target layer:
> a. Between steps c and d of target behavior in section 4.1.2,=20
> send an Asynchronous Message PDU with AsyncEvent=3D5 (section=20
> 8.1) on each connection of each third-party session to which=20
> at least one affected task is allegiant.  If there are=20
> multiple affected LUs, then send one Async Message PDU for=20
> each such LU on each connection that has at least one=20
> allegiant affected task.  When sent, the LUN field in the=20
> Asynchronous Message PDU MUST be set to match the LUN for=20
> each such LU.
> b. After step e of target behavior in section 4.1.2, free up=20
> the affected TTTs (and STags, if applicable) and the=20
> corresponding buffers, if any, once each associated Nop-Out=20
> acknowledgement is received that the third-party initiator=20
> generated in response to each Async Message sent in step a.
>=20
> If the issuing session is a FastAbort session, iSCSI target=20
> implementation is FastAbort-capable and third-party affected=20
> session is a Legacy session, the following behavior MUST be=20
> exhibited by the iSCSI target layer: Asynchronous Message=20
> PDUs MUST NOT be sent on the third-party session to prompt=20
> the FastAbort behavior.
>=20
>=20
> =20
> ______________________________________________________________
> ______________________
> It's here! Your new message! =20
> Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar.
> http://tools.search.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> Ips mailing list
> Ips@ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ips
>=20
>=20

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Subject: [Ips] Re: Last Call Response Fence resolution
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David,=0A=0AOK.  Didn't realize you were concerned about "flag", we may be =
converging.  Please take a look at the new text below.....=0A=0AMallikarjun=
=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: "Black_David@emc.com" <Black_Davi=
d@emc.com>=0ATo: cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com; ips@ietf.org=0ASent: Thursday, J=
anuary 25, 2007 6:44:53 PM=0ASubject: RE: Last Call Response Fence resoluti=
on (Was Re: [Ips] iSCSIImplementer's Guide - WG Last Call status, 2nd try)=
=0A=0A=0AMallikarjun,=0A=0A> I am trying to preserve the notion of an iSCSI=
-defined & =0A> iSCSI-scoped Response Fence in the text (you seem to be OK =
=0A> with it).  This gives us a convenient shorthand to refer to a =0A> set=
 of semantics.  Besides, if/when T10 approves the response =0A> fence conce=
pt for SAM-4, iSCSI implementers will know what to =0A> map it to for iSCSI=
.  As you'll see, I made it very clear in =0A> the new text that this is no=
t an attempt to change SAM in =0A> this draft (which was of course never th=
e intent).=0A=0AI agree in principle with the intent where "Response Fence"=
 is=0AiSCSI-scoped and defined "behavior."  OTOH, calling it a "flag"=0Ais =
a problem.  I would prefer that all text anticipating=0Aaddition of a "flag=
" to SAM-4 be removed, and in particular=0Athe following text:=0A=0A> the f=
ollowing =0A> semantics are defined for a "Response Fence" flag if such a =
=0A> flag were to qualify SCSI completion messages as they are =0A> handed =
off from the SCSI protocol layer to the iSCSI layer.  =0A> Note however tha=
t [SAM2] does not model such a flag in its =0A> protocol interface model, s=
o the "Response Fence" flag is an =0A> iSCSI-defined artifact for descripti=
ve convenience of the =0A> mandatory iSCSI response ordering semantics.=0A=
=0Awhich is just asking for an IETF Last Call comment or AD question=0Aabou=
t why this circumlocution was used when it suffices to define=0Athe "Respon=
se Fence" behavior without ever mentioning a non-=0Aexistent flag.  Section=
 3.3.3 doesn't need the flag - it can=0Arefer to the behavior and say what =
it MUST be applied to.=0A=0AIf Rob succeeds in getting T10 to put a Respons=
e Fence flag=0Ainto SAM-4, we can deal with that flag in the draft that=0Ad=
eals with the impacts of SAM-3 and SAM-4 on iSCSI, which=0Awill have a numb=
er of other things to deal with.  Before anyone=0Agets excited about this, =
I will state my view that the IETF=0Awill need to ensure that all such impa=
cts are specified in a=0Afashion that is backwards compatible with RFC-3720=
-only=0Aimplementations.=0A=0AThanks,=0A--David=0A-------------------------=
---------------------------=0ADavid L. Black, Senior Technologist=0AEMC Cor=
poration, 176 South St., Hopkinton, MA  01748=0A+1 (508) 293-7953          =
   FAX: +1 (508) 293-7786=0Ablack_david@emc.com        Mobile: +1 (978) 394=
-7754=0A----------------------------------------------------=0A=0A=0A3.3 Mo=
del Assumptions for Response Ordering=0AWhenever an iSCSI session is compos=
ed of multiple connections, the Response PDUs (task responses or TMF respon=
ses) originating in the target SCSI layer are distributed onto the multiple=
 connections by the target iSCSI layer according to iSCSI connection allegi=
ance rules.  This process generally may not preserve the ordering of the re=
sponses by the time they are delivered to the initiator SCSI layer.  Since =
ordering is not expected across SCSI responses anyway, this approach works =
fine in the general case.  However to address the special cases where some =
ordering is desired by the SCSI layer, the following "Response Fence" seman=
tics are defined with respect to handling SCSI response messages as they ar=
e handed off from the SCSI protocol layer to the iSCSI layer. =0A =0A3.3.1 =
Model Description=0ATarget SCSI protocol layer hands off the SCSI response =
messages to the target iSCSI layer by invoking the "Send Command Complete" =
protocol data service ([SAM2], clause 5.4.2) and "Task Management Function =
Executed" ([SAM2], clause 6.9) service.   On receiving the SCSI response me=
ssage, iSCSI layer exhibits the Response Fence behavior for certain SCSI re=
sponse messages (section 3.3.3 describes the specific instances where the s=
emantics must be realized).  Whenever the Response Fence behavior is requir=
ed for a SCSI response message, the target iSCSI layer MUST ensure that the=
 following conditions are met in delivering the response message to the ini=
tiator iSCSI layer:=0A(1) Response with Response Fence MUST chronologically=
 be delivered after all the "preceding" responses on the I_T_L nexus, if th=
e preceding responses are delivered at all, to the application client on th=
e initiator. =0A(2) Response with Response Fence MUST chronologically be de=
livered prior to all the "following" responses on the I_T_L nexus. =0AThe =
=93preceding=94 and =93following=94 notions refer to the order of hand-off =
of a response message from the target SCSI protocol layer to the target iSC=
SI layer.=0A=0A3.3.2 iSCSI Semantics with the Interface Model=0AWhenever th=
e TaskReporting key (section 9.1) is negotiated to ResponseFence or FastAbo=
rt for an iSCSI session and the Response Fence behavior is required for a S=
CSI response message, the target iSCSI layer MUST perform the actions descr=
ibed in this section for that session.:=0Aa) If it is a single-connection s=
ession, no special processing is required.  Standard SCSI Response PDU buil=
d and dispatch process happens. =0Ab) If it is a multi-connection session, =
target iSCSI layer takes note of last-sent and unacknowledged StatSN on eac=
h of the connections in the iSCSI session, and waits for acknowledgement (S=
HOULD solicit for acknowledgement by way of a Nop-In) of each such StatSN t=
o clear the fence.  SCSI response with the Response Fence flag must be sent=
 to the initiator only after receiving acknowledgements for each of the una=
cknowledged StatSNs.=0Ac) Target iSCSI layer must wait for an acknowledgeme=
nt of the SCSI Response PDU that carried the response which the target SCSI=
 layer marked with the Response Fence flag.  The fence must be considered c=
leared after receiving the acknowledgement.=0Ad) All further status process=
ing for the LU is resumed only after clearing the fence.  If any new respon=
ses for the I_T_L nexus are received from the SCSI layer before the fence i=
s cleared, those Response PDUs must be held and queued at the iSCSI layer u=
ntil the fence is cleared.=0A=0A3.3.3 Current List of Fenced Response Use C=
ases=0A=0A--- No changes ----=0A=0A=0A =0A_________________________________=
___________________________________________________=0ABe a PS3 game guru.=
=0AGet your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Ga=
mes.=0Ahttp://videogames.yahoo.com/platform?platform=3D120121

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Subject: RE: [Ips] Re: Last Call Response Fence resolution
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 14:30:08 -0800
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From: "Robert Snively" <rsnively@Brocade.COM>
To: "Mallikarjun C." <cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com>, <ips@ietf.org>
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In the text below, there is one thing I am not sure
I understand correctly.  The text in 3.3.1, item 1 (and
implicitly item 2) says that "MUST be chronologically
delivered after all the preceding responses... to the
application client on the initiator.

Similarly in 3.3.2 item b) says "target iSCSI layer=20
takes note of last-sent and unacknowledged StatSN=20
on each of the connections in the iSCSI session, and=20
waits for acknowledgement (SHOULD solicit for=20
acknowledgement by way of a Nop-In) of each such=20
StatSN to clear the fence."

Implicit in 3.3.2 is knowledge of the timing of delivery
to the iSCSI layer, not necessarily to the "application
client".  I do not believe there is any defined time marker
or pollable status available to a target that indicates when=20
delivery to the "application client" actually occurs that
could be used to satisfy 3.3.1.  This is the
generic ordering question at the root of my continued
concern about this approach.

Since software constituting the application client (including
kernel, OS, file system, application, etc.) must be designed
to be tolerant of this ambiguity in any case, I believe we
are spending a lot of effort creating an ordered case where
the rare cases of misordering are already managed behavior.

Bob

-----  original text offered by Mallikarjun  -----------------
=20
3.3.1 Model Description
Target SCSI protocol layer hands off the SCSI response messages to the
target iSCSI layer by invoking the "Send Command Complete" protocol data
service ([SAM2], clause 5.4.2) and "Task Management Function Executed"
([SAM2], clause 6.9) service.   On receiving the SCSI response message,
iSCSI layer exhibits the Response Fence behavior for certain SCSI
response messages (section 3.3.3 describes the specific instances where
the semantics must be realized).  Whenever the Response Fence behavior
is required for a SCSI response message, the target iSCSI layer MUST
ensure that the following conditions are met in delivering the response
message to the initiator iSCSI layer:
(1) Response with Response Fence MUST chronologically be delivered after
all the "preceding" responses on the I_T_L nexus, if the preceding
responses are delivered at all, to the application client on the
initiator.=20
(2) Response with Response Fence MUST chronologically be delivered prior
to all the "following" responses on the I_T_L nexus.=20
The "preceding" and "following" notions refer to the order of hand-off
of a response message from the target SCSI protocol layer to the target
iSCSI layer.

3.3.2 iSCSI Semantics with the Interface Model
Whenever the TaskReporting key (section 9.1) is negotiated to
ResponseFence or FastAbort for an iSCSI session and the Response Fence
behavior is required for a SCSI response message, the target iSCSI layer
MUST perform the actions described in this section for that session.:
a) If it is a single-connection session, no special processing is
required.  Standard SCSI Response PDU build and dispatch process
happens.=20
b) If it is a multi-connection session, target iSCSI layer takes note of
last-sent and unacknowledged StatSN on each of the connections in the
iSCSI session, and waits for acknowledgement (SHOULD solicit for
acknowledgement by way of a Nop-In) of each such StatSN to clear the
fence.  SCSI response with the Response Fence flag must be sent to the
initiator only after receiving acknowledgements for each of the
unacknowledged StatSNs.
c) Target iSCSI layer must wait for an acknowledgement of the SCSI
Response PDU that carried the response which the target SCSI layer
marked with the Response Fence flag.  The fence must be considered
cleared after receiving the acknowledgement.
d) All further status processing for the LU is resumed only after
clearing the fence.  If any new responses for the I_T_L nexus are
received from the SCSI layer before the fence is cleared, those Response
PDUs must be held and queued at the iSCSI layer until the fence is
cleared.

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Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 14:40:36 -0800 (PST)
From: "Mallikarjun C." <cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ips] Re: Last Call TMF resolution
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David,=0A=0ALegacy->RFC3720 change done.  Latest text is attached below.  =
=0A=0AAFAICT, initiator behavior parenthetical text under 4.1.3 bullet-c is=
 what you are suggesting we clarify in 4.1.4. =0A"this step also applies wh=
en the initiator is receiving the Async Message in the third-party role"=0A=
=0ABut let me know if that isn't the case.=0A=0AThanks.=0A=0AMallikarjun=0A=
=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: "Black_David@emc.com" <Black_Davi=
d@emc.com>=0ATo: cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com; ips@ietf.org=0ASent: Friday, Jan=
uary 26, 2007 2:02:34 PM=0ASubject: RE: [Ips] Re: Last Call TMF resolution=
=0A=0A=0AI think I see some of where I'm confused.  4.1.2 and 4.1.3 are=0Aa=
bout what the initiator that sent the TMF does as well as the=0Atarget.  We=
 need to explain what a 3rd-party initiator does,=0Awhich for a 3720-only i=
nitiator is unchanged.  I think your=0Anew 4.1.4 is headed towards covering=
 this in addition to the=0ATarget behavior in a mixed FastAbort/non-FastAbo=
rt case.=0A=0AOne crucial point that needs=0Ato be made is that a FastAbort=
 initiator may get an AsyncEvent=3D5=0Amessage out of the blue if some othe=
r initiator, even a Legacy=0Ainitiator, issues a TMF that affects the FastA=
bort initiator's=0Atasks, even if the iSCSI session only contains a single =
TCP=0Aconnection (FastAbort initiator will never get AsyncEvent=3D5=0Amessa=
ges for its own TMFs on a single connection session).=0A=0AOn another minor=
 note, "Legacy" as a key value seems pejorative=0Ato me. "RFC3720" would be=
 neutral and in fact more descriptive=0Aof what's actually going on.=0A=0AT=
hanks,=0A--David=0A=0A4.1.3 Updated multi-task abort semantics=0AProtocol b=
ehavior defined in this section MUST be implemented by all iSCSI implementa=
tions complying with this document.  Protocol behavior defined in this sect=
ion MUST be exhibited by iSCSI implementations on an iSCSI session when the=
y negotiate the TaskReporting (section 9.1) key to =93FastAbort=94 on that =
session.  The execution of ABORT TASK SET, CLEAR TASK SET, LOGICAL UNIT RES=
ET, TARGET WARM RESET, and TARGET COLD RESET TMF Requests consists of the f=
ollowing sequence of actions in the specified order on the specified party.=
 =0AThe initiator iSCSI layer:=0Aa. MUST NOT send any more Data-Out PDUs fo=
r affected tasks on the issuing connection of the issuing iSCSI session onc=
e the TMF is sent to the target.=0Ab. Should receive any responses that the=
 target may provide for some tasks among the affected tasks (may process th=
em as usual because they are guaranteed to have chronologically originated =
prior to the TMF response).=0Ac. MUST respond to each Async Message PDU wit=
h AsyncEvent=3D5 as defined in section 8.1 (this step also applies when the=
 initiator is receiving the Async Message in the third-party role).=0Ad. Sh=
ould receive the TMF Response concluding all the tasks in the set of affect=
ed tasks.=0A=0AThe target iSCSI layer:=0Aa. MUST wait for all commands of t=
he affected tasks to be received based on the CmdSN ordering on the issuing=
 session.  SHOULD NOT wait for new commands on third-party affected session=
s - only the instantiated tasks have to be considered for the purpose of de=
termining the affected tasks.  In the case of target-scoped requests (i.e. =
TARGET WARM RESET and TARGET COLD RESET), all the commands that are not yet=
 received on the issuing session in the command stream can be considered to=
 have been received with no command waiting period - i.e. the entire CmdSN =
space up to the CmdSN of the task management function can be "plugged".=0Ab=
. MUST propagate the TMF request to and receive the response from the targe=
t SCSI layer. =0Ac. MUST leave all active "affected TTTs" (i.e. active TTTs=
 associated with affected tasks) valid.=0Ad. MUST send an Asynchronous Mess=
age PDU with AsyncEvent=3D5 (section 8.1) on:=0Ai) each connection of each =
third-party session to which at least one affected task is allegiant if Tas=
kReporting=3DFastAbort is operational on that third-party session, and=0Aii=
) each connection except the issuing connection of the issuing session that=
 has at least one allegiant affected task.=0AIf there are multiple affected=
 LUs (say due to a target reset), then one Async Message PDU MUST be sent f=
or each such LU on each connection that has at least one allegiant affected=
 task.  The LUN field in the Asynchronous Message PDU MUST be set to match =
the LUN for each such LU.=0Ae. MUST address the Response Fence flag on the =
TMF Response on issuing session as defined in 3.3.2.=0Af. MUST address the =
Response Fence flag on the first post-TMF Response on third-party sessions =
as defined in 3.3.2. If some tasks originate from non-iSCSI I_T_L nexuses t=
hen the means by which the target ensures that all affected tasks have retu=
rned their status to the initiator are defined by the specific non-iSCSI tr=
ansport protocol(s).=0Ag. MUST free up the affected TTTs (and STags, if app=
licable) and the corresponding buffers, if any, once it receives each assoc=
iated Nop-Out acknowledgement that the initiator generated in response to e=
ach Async Message.  =0AImplementation note: Technically, the TMF servicing =
is complete in Step.e.  Data transfers corresponding to terminated tasks ma=
y however still be in progress even at the end of Step.f.  TMF Response MUS=
T NOT be sent by the target iSCSI layer before the end of Step.e, and MAY b=
e sent at the end of Step.e despite these outstanding Data transfers until =
Step.g.  Step.g specifies an event to free up any such resources that may h=
ave been reserved to support outstanding data transfers.  =0A=0A4.1.3.1 Cle=
aring effects update=0A---No changes -----=0A=0A4.1.4 Affected tasks shared=
 across RFC3720 & FastAbort sessions=0AIf an iSCSI target implementation is=
 capable of supporting TaskReporting=3DFastAbort functionality (section 9.1=
), it may end up in a situation where some sessions have TaskReporting=3DRF=
C3720 operational (RFC3720 sessions) while some other sessions have TaskRep=
orting=3DFastAbort operational (FastAbort sessions) even while accessing a =
shared set of affected tasks (section 4.1.1).=0AIf the issuing session is a=
 RFC3720 session, iSCSI target implementation is FastAbort-capable and thir=
d-party affected session is a FastAbort session, the following behavior SHO=
ULD be exhibited by the iSCSI target layer:=0Aa. Between steps c and d of t=
arget behavior in section 4.1.2, send an Asynchronous Message PDU with Asyn=
cEvent=3D5 (section 8.1) on each connection of each third-party session to =
which at least one affected task is allegiant.  If there are multiple affec=
ted LUs, then send one Async Message PDU for each such LU on each connectio=
n that has at least one allegiant affected task.  When sent, the LUN field =
in the Asynchronous Message PDU MUST be set to match the LUN for each such =
LU.=0Ab. After step e of target behavior in section 4.1.2, free up the affe=
cted TTTs (and STags, if applicable) and the corresponding buffers, if any,=
 once each associated Nop-Out acknowledgement is received that the third-pa=
rty initiator generated in response to each Async Message sent in step a.=
=0AIf the issuing session is a FastAbort session, iSCSI target implementati=
on is FastAbort-capable and third-party affected session is a RFC3720 sessi=
on, the following behavior MUST be exhibited by the iSCSI target layer: Asy=
nchronous Message PDUs MUST NOT be sent on the third-party session to promp=
t the FastAbort behavior.=0A=0A=0A =0A_____________________________________=
_______________________________________________=0AThe fish are biting. =0AG=
et more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing.=0Ahttp://searc=
hmarketing.yahoo.com/arp/sponsoredsearch_v2.php

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Subject: RE: [Ips] Re: Last Call Response Fence resolution
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Bob,

> Implicit in 3.3.2 is knowledge of the timing of delivery
> to the iSCSI layer, not necessarily to the "application
> client".  I do not believe there is any defined time marker
> or pollable status available to a target that indicates when=20
> delivery to the "application client" actually occurs that
> could be used to satisfy 3.3.1.  This is the
> generic ordering question at the root of my continued
> concern about this approach.

For 3.3.2, I don't think that's not correct, at least not to
the degree you've stretched it.  What's going on is an assumption
that any local delivery event of interest will have occurred
well before the round trip from initiator to target (acknowledge
status) and back (target does something as a consequence of that
acknowledgement).  Based on that assumption, the target's record
of acknowledged status is being used to drive the sequencing.

If one is in a situation where the assumption is false (e.g.,
app client is a low priority user process for which the OS does
not maintain an ordered event queue, allowing event reordering
over periods of time on the order of an iSCSI round trip),
then I would actually recommend that multi-connection iSCSI
sessions not be used, because the corresponding reordering
of commands is going to cause target-side holes in the CmdSN
sequence.  I also believe the example I used is indicative
of an OS shortcoming, and is not at all typical.  For typical
situations, I believe the assumption holds, the fence property
is useful, and the "pollable status" that drives everything is
the target's tracking of the acknowledged StatSN's.  iSCSI
doesn't use time markers.

Thanks,
--David
----------------------------------------------------
David L. Black, Senior Technologist
EMC Corporation, 176 South St., Hopkinton, MA  01748
+1 (508) 293-7953             FAX: +1 (508) 293-7786
black_david@emc.com        Mobile: +1 (978) 394-7754
----------------------------------------------------

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Robert Snively [mailto:rsnively@Brocade.COM]=20
> Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 5:30 PM
> To: Mallikarjun C.; ips@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [Ips] Re: Last Call Response Fence resolution
>=20
> In the text below, there is one thing I am not sure
> I understand correctly.  The text in 3.3.1, item 1 (and
> implicitly item 2) says that "MUST be chronologically
> delivered after all the preceding responses... to the
> application client on the initiator.
>=20
> Similarly in 3.3.2 item b) says "target iSCSI layer=20
> takes note of last-sent and unacknowledged StatSN=20
> on each of the connections in the iSCSI session, and=20
> waits for acknowledgement (SHOULD solicit for=20
> acknowledgement by way of a Nop-In) of each such=20
> StatSN to clear the fence."
>=20
> Implicit in 3.3.2 is knowledge of the timing of delivery
> to the iSCSI layer, not necessarily to the "application
> client".  I do not believe there is any defined time marker
> or pollable status available to a target that indicates when=20
> delivery to the "application client" actually occurs that
> could be used to satisfy 3.3.1.  This is the
> generic ordering question at the root of my continued
> concern about this approach.
>=20
> Since software constituting the application client (including
> kernel, OS, file system, application, etc.) must be designed
> to be tolerant of this ambiguity in any case, I believe we
> are spending a lot of effort creating an ordered case where
> the rare cases of misordering are already managed behavior.
>=20
> Bob
>=20
> -----  original text offered by Mallikarjun  -----------------
> =20
> 3.3.1 Model Description
> Target SCSI protocol layer hands off the SCSI response messages to the
> target iSCSI layer by invoking the "Send Command Complete"=20
> protocol data
> service ([SAM2], clause 5.4.2) and "Task Management Function Executed"
> ([SAM2], clause 6.9) service.   On receiving the SCSI=20
> response message,
> iSCSI layer exhibits the Response Fence behavior for certain SCSI
> response messages (section 3.3.3 describes the specific=20
> instances where
> the semantics must be realized).  Whenever the Response Fence behavior
> is required for a SCSI response message, the target iSCSI layer MUST
> ensure that the following conditions are met in delivering=20
> the response
> message to the initiator iSCSI layer:
> (1) Response with Response Fence MUST chronologically be=20
> delivered after
> all the "preceding" responses on the I_T_L nexus, if the preceding
> responses are delivered at all, to the application client on the
> initiator.=20
> (2) Response with Response Fence MUST chronologically be=20
> delivered prior
> to all the "following" responses on the I_T_L nexus.=20
> The "preceding" and "following" notions refer to the order of hand-off
> of a response message from the target SCSI protocol layer to=20
> the target
> iSCSI layer.
>=20
> 3.3.2 iSCSI Semantics with the Interface Model
> Whenever the TaskReporting key (section 9.1) is negotiated to
> ResponseFence or FastAbort for an iSCSI session and the Response Fence
> behavior is required for a SCSI response message, the target=20
> iSCSI layer
> MUST perform the actions described in this section for that session.:
> a) If it is a single-connection session, no special processing is
> required.  Standard SCSI Response PDU build and dispatch process
> happens.=20
> b) If it is a multi-connection session, target iSCSI layer=20
> takes note of
> last-sent and unacknowledged StatSN on each of the connections in the
> iSCSI session, and waits for acknowledgement (SHOULD solicit for
> acknowledgement by way of a Nop-In) of each such StatSN to clear the
> fence.  SCSI response with the Response Fence flag must be sent to the
> initiator only after receiving acknowledgements for each of the
> unacknowledged StatSNs.
> c) Target iSCSI layer must wait for an acknowledgement of the SCSI
> Response PDU that carried the response which the target SCSI layer
> marked with the Response Fence flag.  The fence must be considered
> cleared after receiving the acknowledgement.
> d) All further status processing for the LU is resumed only after
> clearing the fence.  If any new responses for the I_T_L nexus are
> received from the SCSI layer before the fence is cleared,=20
> those Response
> PDUs must be held and queued at the iSCSI layer until the fence is
> cleared.
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> Ips mailing list
> Ips@ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ips
>=20
>=20

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From ips-bounces@ietf.org Fri Jan 26 18:06:26 2007
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From: "Mallikarjun C." <cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ips] Re: Last Call Response Fence resolution
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Bob,=0A=0AGood feedback.  I will change "application client" to "initiator =
iSCSI layer".  It was an oversight from the days of generic early text.=0A=
=0AUnderstood that there may be other software/firmware layers above iSCSI =
with their own ordering considerations.  Obviously, they are beyond the sco=
pe of this draft.  The intent behind the text in this draft is to specify t=
he proper iSCSI semantics that will facilitate building a well-behaved appl=
ication client with predictable ordering, but not to demand that all initia=
tor layers change.  This is essentially continuing the ordering philosophy =
of RFC 3720 multi-connection sessions.=0A=0AMallikarjun=0A=0A=0A----- Origi=
nal Message ----=0AFrom: Robert Snively <rsnively@Brocade.COM>=0ATo: Mallik=
arjun C. <cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com>; ips@ietf.org=0ASent: Friday, January 2=
6, 2007 2:30:08 PM=0ASubject: RE: [Ips] Re: Last Call Response Fence resolu=
tion=0A=0A=0AIn the text below, there is one thing I am not sure=0AI unders=
tand correctly.  The text in 3.3.1, item 1 (and=0Aimplicitly item 2) says t=
hat "MUST be chronologically=0Adelivered after all the preceding responses.=
.. to the=0Aapplication client on the initiator.=0A=0ASimilarly in 3.3.2 it=
em b) says "target iSCSI layer =0Atakes note of last-sent and unacknowledge=
d StatSN =0Aon each of the connections in the iSCSI session, and =0Awaits f=
or acknowledgement (SHOULD solicit for =0Aacknowledgement by way of a Nop-I=
n) of each such =0AStatSN to clear the fence."=0A=0AImplicit in 3.3.2 is kn=
owledge of the timing of delivery=0Ato the iSCSI layer, not necessarily to =
the "application=0Aclient".  I do not believe there is any defined time mar=
ker=0Aor pollable status available to a target that indicates when =0Adeliv=
ery to the "application client" actually occurs that=0Acould be used to sat=
isfy 3.3.1.  This is the=0Ageneric ordering question at the root of my cont=
inued=0Aconcern about this approach.=0A=0ASince software constituting the a=
pplication client (including=0Akernel, OS, file system, application, etc.) =
must be designed=0Ato be tolerant of this ambiguity in any case, I believe =
we=0Aare spending a lot of effort creating an ordered case where=0Athe rare=
 cases of misordering are already managed behavior.=0A=0ABob=0A=0A-----  or=
iginal text offered by Mallikarjun  -----------------=0A=0A3.3.1 Model Desc=
ription=0ATarget SCSI protocol layer hands off the SCSI response messages t=
o the=0Atarget iSCSI layer by invoking the "Send Command Complete" protocol=
 data=0Aservice ([SAM2], clause 5.4.2) and "Task Management Function Execut=
ed"=0A([SAM2], clause 6.9) service.   On receiving the SCSI response messag=
e,=0AiSCSI layer exhibits the Response Fence behavior for certain SCSI=0Are=
sponse messages (section 3.3.3 describes the specific instances where=0Athe=
 semantics must be realized).  Whenever the Response Fence behavior=0Ais re=
quired for a SCSI response message, the target iSCSI layer MUST=0Aensure th=
at the following conditions are met in delivering the response=0Amessage to=
 the initiator iSCSI layer:=0A(1) Response with Response Fence MUST chronol=
ogically be delivered after=0Aall the "preceding" responses on the I_T_L ne=
xus, if the preceding=0Aresponses are delivered at all, to the application =
client on the=0Ainitiator. =0A(2) Response with Response Fence MUST chronol=
ogically be delivered prior=0Ato all the "following" responses on the I_T_L=
 nexus. =0AThe "preceding" and "following" notions refer to the order of ha=
nd-off=0Aof a response message from the target SCSI protocol layer to the t=
arget=0AiSCSI layer.=0A=0A3.3.2 iSCSI Semantics with the Interface Model=0A=
Whenever the TaskReporting key (section 9.1) is negotiated to=0AResponseFen=
ce or FastAbort for an iSCSI session and the Response Fence=0Abehavior is r=
equired for a SCSI response message, the target iSCSI layer=0AMUST perform =
the actions described in this section for that session.:=0Aa) If it is a si=
ngle-connection session, no special processing is=0Arequired.  Standard SCS=
I Response PDU build and dispatch process=0Ahappens. =0Ab) If it is a multi=
-connection session, target iSCSI layer takes note of=0Alast-sent and unack=
nowledged StatSN on each of the connections in the=0AiSCSI session, and wai=
ts for acknowledgement (SHOULD solicit for=0Aacknowledgement by way of a No=
p-In) of each such StatSN to clear the=0Afence.  SCSI response with the Res=
ponse Fence flag must be sent to the=0Ainitiator only after receiving ackno=
wledgements for each of the=0Aunacknowledged StatSNs.=0Ac) Target iSCSI lay=
er must wait for an acknowledgement of the SCSI=0AResponse PDU that carried=
 the response which the target SCSI layer=0Amarked with the Response Fence =
flag.  The fence must be considered=0Acleared after receiving the acknowled=
gement.=0Ad) All further status processing for the LU is resumed only after=
=0Aclearing the fence.  If any new responses for the I_T_L nexus are=0Arece=
ived from the SCSI layer before the fence is cleared, those Response=0APDUs=
 must be held and queued at the iSCSI layer until the fence is=0Acleared.=
=0A=0A=0A =0A______________________________________________________________=
______________________=0ABored stiff? Loosen up... =0ADownload and play hun=
dreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games.=0Ahttp://games.yahoo.com/games/fro=
nt

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Subject: RE: [Ips] Re: Last Call Response Fence resolution
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 20:56:32 -0500
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I think that text is ok, as the remaining SAM2 references serve
as justification for talking about the interface between SCSI
and iSCSI.

Thanks,
--David

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mallikarjun C. [mailto:cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com]=20
> Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 5:12 PM
> To: ips@ietf.org
> Subject: [Ips] Re: Last Call Response Fence resolution
>=20
> David,
>=20
> OK.  Didn't realize you were concerned about "flag", we may=20
> be converging.  Please take a look at the new text below.....
>=20
> Mallikarjun
>=20
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: "Black_David@emc.com" <Black_David@emc.com>
> To: cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com; ips@ietf.org
> Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 6:44:53 PM
> Subject: RE: Last Call Response Fence resolution (Was Re:=20
> [Ips] iSCSIImplementer's Guide - WG Last Call status, 2nd try)
>=20
>=20
> Mallikarjun,
>=20
> > I am trying to preserve the notion of an iSCSI-defined &=20
> > iSCSI-scoped Response Fence in the text (you seem to be OK=20
> > with it).  This gives us a convenient shorthand to refer to a=20
> > set of semantics.  Besides, if/when T10 approves the response=20
> > fence concept for SAM-4, iSCSI implementers will know what to=20
> > map it to for iSCSI.  As you'll see, I made it very clear in=20
> > the new text that this is not an attempt to change SAM in=20
> > this draft (which was of course never the intent).
>=20
> I agree in principle with the intent where "Response Fence" is
> iSCSI-scoped and defined "behavior."  OTOH, calling it a "flag"
> is a problem.  I would prefer that all text anticipating
> addition of a "flag" to SAM-4 be removed, and in particular
> the following text:
>=20
> > the following=20
> > semantics are defined for a "Response Fence" flag if such a=20
> > flag were to qualify SCSI completion messages as they are=20
> > handed off from the SCSI protocol layer to the iSCSI layer. =20
> > Note however that [SAM2] does not model such a flag in its=20
> > protocol interface model, so the "Response Fence" flag is an=20
> > iSCSI-defined artifact for descriptive convenience of the=20
> > mandatory iSCSI response ordering semantics.
>=20
> which is just asking for an IETF Last Call comment or AD question
> about why this circumlocution was used when it suffices to define
> the "Response Fence" behavior without ever mentioning a non-
> existent flag.  Section 3.3.3 doesn't need the flag - it can
> refer to the behavior and say what it MUST be applied to.
>=20
> If Rob succeeds in getting T10 to put a Response Fence flag
> into SAM-4, we can deal with that flag in the draft that
> deals with the impacts of SAM-3 and SAM-4 on iSCSI, which
> will have a number of other things to deal with.  Before anyone
> gets excited about this, I will state my view that the IETF
> will need to ensure that all such impacts are specified in a
> fashion that is backwards compatible with RFC-3720-only
> implementations.
>=20
> Thanks,
> --David
> ----------------------------------------------------
> David L. Black, Senior Technologist
> EMC Corporation, 176 South St., Hopkinton, MA  01748
> +1 (508) 293-7953             FAX: +1 (508) 293-7786
> black_david@emc.com        Mobile: +1 (978) 394-7754
> ----------------------------------------------------
>=20
>=20
> 3.3 Model Assumptions for Response Ordering
> Whenever an iSCSI session is composed of multiple=20
> connections, the Response PDUs (task responses or TMF=20
> responses) originating in the target SCSI layer are=20
> distributed onto the multiple connections by the target iSCSI=20
> layer according to iSCSI connection allegiance rules.  This=20
> process generally may not preserve the ordering of the=20
> responses by the time they are delivered to the initiator=20
> SCSI layer.  Since ordering is not expected across SCSI=20
> responses anyway, this approach works fine in the general=20
> case.  However to address the special cases where some=20
> ordering is desired by the SCSI layer, the following=20
> "Response Fence" semantics are defined with respect to=20
> handling SCSI response messages as they are handed off from=20
> the SCSI protocol layer to the iSCSI layer.=20
> =20
> 3.3.1 Model Description
> Target SCSI protocol layer hands off the SCSI response=20
> messages to the target iSCSI layer by invoking the "Send=20
> Command Complete" protocol data service ([SAM2], clause=20
> 5.4.2) and "Task Management Function Executed" ([SAM2],=20
> clause 6.9) service.   On receiving the SCSI response=20
> message, iSCSI layer exhibits the Response Fence behavior for=20
> certain SCSI response messages (section 3.3.3 describes the=20
> specific instances where the semantics must be realized). =20
> Whenever the Response Fence behavior is required for a SCSI=20
> response message, the target iSCSI layer MUST ensure that the=20
> following conditions are met in delivering the response=20
> message to the initiator iSCSI layer:
> (1) Response with Response Fence MUST chronologically be=20
> delivered after all the "preceding" responses on the I_T_L=20
> nexus, if the preceding responses are delivered at all, to=20
> the application client on the initiator.=20
> (2) Response with Response Fence MUST chronologically be=20
> delivered prior to all the "following" responses on the I_T_L nexus.=20
> The "preceding" and "following" notions refer to the order of=20
> hand-off of a response message from the target SCSI protocol=20
> layer to the target iSCSI layer.
>=20
> 3.3.2 iSCSI Semantics with the Interface Model
> Whenever the TaskReporting key (section 9.1) is negotiated to=20
> ResponseFence or FastAbort for an iSCSI session and the=20
> Response Fence behavior is required for a SCSI response=20
> message, the target iSCSI layer MUST perform the actions=20
> described in this section for that session.:
> a) If it is a single-connection session, no special=20
> processing is required.  Standard SCSI Response PDU build and=20
> dispatch process happens.=20
> b) If it is a multi-connection session, target iSCSI layer=20
> takes note of last-sent and unacknowledged StatSN on each of=20
> the connections in the iSCSI session, and waits for=20
> acknowledgement (SHOULD solicit for acknowledgement by way of=20
> a Nop-In) of each such StatSN to clear the fence.  SCSI=20
> response with the Response Fence flag must be sent to the=20
> initiator only after receiving acknowledgements for each of=20
> the unacknowledged StatSNs.
> c) Target iSCSI layer must wait for an acknowledgement of the=20
> SCSI Response PDU that carried the response which the target=20
> SCSI layer marked with the Response Fence flag.  The fence=20
> must be considered cleared after receiving the acknowledgement.
> d) All further status processing for the LU is resumed only=20
> after clearing the fence.  If any new responses for the I_T_L=20
> nexus are received from the SCSI layer before the fence is=20
> cleared, those Response PDUs must be held and queued at the=20
> iSCSI layer until the fence is cleared.
>=20
> 3.3.3 Current List of Fenced Response Use Cases
>=20
> --- No changes ----
>=20
>=20
> =20
> ______________________________________________________________
> ______________________
> Be a PS3 game guru.
> Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews=20
> at Yahoo! Games.
> http://videogames.yahoo.com/platform?platform=3D120121
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> Ips mailing list
> Ips@ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ips
>=20
>=20

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Subject: RE: [Ips] Re: Last Call TMF resolution
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 21:13:39 -0500
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Yes, the parenthetical text is entirely too well-hidden ;-) - an
Initiator section in 4.1.4 would make the implications obvious.

Thanks,
--David

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mallikarjun C. [mailto:cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com]=20
> Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 5:41 PM
> To: ips@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [Ips] Re: Last Call TMF resolution
>=20
> David,
>=20
> Legacy->RFC3720 change done.  Latest text is attached below. =20
>=20
> AFAICT, initiator behavior parenthetical text under 4.1.3=20
> bullet-c is what you are suggesting we clarify in 4.1.4.=20
> "this step also applies when the initiator is receiving the=20
> Async Message in the third-party role"
>=20
> But let me know if that isn't the case.
>=20
> Thanks.
>=20
> Mallikarjun
>=20
>=20
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: "Black_David@emc.com" <Black_David@emc.com>
> To: cb_mallikarjun@yahoo.com; ips@ietf.org
> Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 2:02:34 PM
> Subject: RE: [Ips] Re: Last Call TMF resolution
>=20
>=20
> I think I see some of where I'm confused.  4.1.2 and 4.1.3 are
> about what the initiator that sent the TMF does as well as the
> target.  We need to explain what a 3rd-party initiator does,
> which for a 3720-only initiator is unchanged.  I think your
> new 4.1.4 is headed towards covering this in addition to the
> Target behavior in a mixed FastAbort/non-FastAbort case.
>=20
> One crucial point that needs
> to be made is that a FastAbort initiator may get an AsyncEvent=3D5
> message out of the blue if some other initiator, even a Legacy
> initiator, issues a TMF that affects the FastAbort initiator's
> tasks, even if the iSCSI session only contains a single TCP
> connection (FastAbort initiator will never get AsyncEvent=3D5
> messages for its own TMFs on a single connection session).
>=20
> On another minor note, "Legacy" as a key value seems pejorative
> to me. "RFC3720" would be neutral and in fact more descriptive
> of what's actually going on.
>=20
> Thanks,
> --David
>=20
> 4.1.3 Updated multi-task abort semantics
> Protocol behavior defined in this section MUST be implemented=20
> by all iSCSI implementations complying with this document. =20
> Protocol behavior defined in this section MUST be exhibited=20
> by iSCSI implementations on an iSCSI session when they=20
> negotiate the TaskReporting (section 9.1) key to "FastAbort"=20
> on that session.  The execution of ABORT TASK SET, CLEAR TASK=20
> SET, LOGICAL UNIT RESET, TARGET WARM RESET, and TARGET COLD=20
> RESET TMF Requests consists of the following sequence of=20
> actions in the specified order on the specified party.=20
> The initiator iSCSI layer:
> a. MUST NOT send any more Data-Out PDUs for affected tasks on=20
> the issuing connection of the issuing iSCSI session once the=20
> TMF is sent to the target.
> b. Should receive any responses that the target may provide=20
> for some tasks among the affected tasks (may process them as=20
> usual because they are guaranteed to have chronologically=20
> originated prior to the TMF response).
> c. MUST respond to each Async Message PDU with AsyncEvent=3D5=20
> as defined in section 8.1 (this step also applies when the=20
> initiator is receiving the Async Message in the third-party role).
> d. Should receive the TMF Response concluding all the tasks=20
> in the set of affected tasks.
>=20
> The target iSCSI layer:
> a. MUST wait for all commands of the affected tasks to be=20
> received based on the CmdSN ordering on the issuing session. =20
> SHOULD NOT wait for new commands on third-party affected=20
> sessions - only the instantiated tasks have to be considered=20
> for the purpose of determining the affected tasks.  In the=20
> case of target-scoped requests (i.e. TARGET WARM RESET and=20
> TARGET COLD RESET), all the commands that are not yet=20
> received on the issuing session in the command stream can be=20
> considered to have been received with no command waiting=20
> period - i.e. the entire CmdSN space up to the CmdSN of the=20
> task management function can be "plugged".
> b. MUST propagate the TMF request to and receive the response=20
> from the target SCSI layer.=20
> c. MUST leave all active "affected TTTs" (i.e. active TTTs=20
> associated with affected tasks) valid.
> d. MUST send an Asynchronous Message PDU with AsyncEvent=3D5=20
> (section 8.1) on:
> i) each connection of each third-party session to which at=20
> least one affected task is allegiant if=20
> TaskReporting=3DFastAbort is operational on that third-party=20
> session, and
> ii) each connection except the issuing connection of the=20
> issuing session that has at least one allegiant affected task.
> If there are multiple affected LUs (say due to a target=20
> reset), then one Async Message PDU MUST be sent for each such=20
> LU on each connection that has at least one allegiant=20
> affected task.  The LUN field in the Asynchronous Message PDU=20
> MUST be set to match the LUN for each such LU.
> e. MUST address the Response Fence flag on the TMF Response=20
> on issuing session as defined in 3.3.2.
> f. MUST address the Response Fence flag on the first post-TMF=20
> Response on third-party sessions as defined in 3.3.2. If some=20
> tasks originate from non-iSCSI I_T_L nexuses then the means=20
> by which the target ensures that all affected tasks have=20
> returned their status to the initiator are defined by the=20
> specific non-iSCSI transport protocol(s).
> g. MUST free up the affected TTTs (and STags, if applicable)=20
> and the corresponding buffers, if any, once it receives each=20
> associated Nop-Out acknowledgement that the initiator=20
> generated in response to each Async Message. =20
> Implementation note: Technically, the TMF servicing is=20
> complete in Step.e.  Data transfers corresponding to=20
> terminated tasks may however still be in progress even at the=20
> end of Step.f.  TMF Response MUST NOT be sent by the target=20
> iSCSI layer before the end of Step.e, and MAY be sent at the=20
> end of Step.e despite these outstanding Data transfers until=20
> Step.g.  Step.g specifies an event to free up any such=20
> resources that may have been reserved to support outstanding=20
> data transfers. =20
>=20
> 4.1.3.1 Clearing effects update
> ---No changes -----
>=20
> 4.1.4 Affected tasks shared across RFC3720 & FastAbort sessions
> If an iSCSI target implementation is capable of supporting=20
> TaskReporting=3DFastAbort functionality (section 9.1), it may=20
> end up in a situation where some sessions have=20
> TaskReporting=3DRFC3720 operational (RFC3720 sessions) while=20
> some other sessions have TaskReporting=3DFastAbort operational=20
> (FastAbort sessions) even while accessing a shared set of=20
> affected tasks (section 4.1.1).
> If the issuing session is a RFC3720 session, iSCSI target=20
> implementation is FastAbort-capable and third-party affected=20
> session is a FastAbort session, the following behavior SHOULD=20
> be exhibited by the iSCSI target layer:
> a. Between steps c and d of target behavior in section 4.1.2,=20
> send an Asynchronous Message PDU with AsyncEvent=3D5 (section=20
> 8.1) on each connection of each third-party session to which=20
> at least one affected task is allegiant.  If there are=20
> multiple affected LUs, then send one Async Message PDU for=20
> each such LU on each connection that has at least one=20
> allegiant affected task.  When sent, the LUN field in the=20
> Asynchronous Message PDU MUST be set to match the LUN for=20
> each such LU.
> b. After step e of target behavior in section 4.1.2, free up=20
> the affected TTTs (and STags, if applicable) and the=20
> corresponding buffers, if any, once each associated Nop-Out=20
> acknowledgement is received that the third-party initiator=20
> generated in response to each Async Message sent in step a.
> If the issuing session is a FastAbort session, iSCSI target=20
> implementation is FastAbort-capable and third-party affected=20
> session is a RFC3720 session, the following behavior MUST be=20
> exhibited by the iSCSI target layer: Asynchronous Message=20
> PDUs MUST NOT be sent on the third-party session to prompt=20
> the FastAbort behavior.
>=20
>=20
> =20
> ______________________________________________________________
> ______________________
> The fish are biting.=20
> Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing.
> http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/arp/sponsoredsearch_v2.php
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> Ips mailing list
> Ips@ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ips
>=20
>=20

_______________________________________________
Ips mailing list
Ips@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ips



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ly more serious m&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;"It is dislike split threw=
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s jump first curve send for two rid soldiers," shut said the gov"The rive=
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re well"Take all needful mistook precautions," strange sleepy rich replie=
d the inspectired "Swear to practise slit me," replied Faria, "to free bl=
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w said torn obediently he, "I adjure you, as a Christian&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp<BR>
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 is&nbsp;<BR>
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or.plastic Two soldiers were accordingly zoological sent town for, name a=
nd the in"Monsieur, bit you run no teaching risk, for, as I calculate sta=
nk told you, I&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
government A taken general exclamation air interest of surprise ran round=
 the ta&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;pine The shy gendarme clip thought l=
ooked irresolutely at his companion,&nbsp;&nbsp;shiver "You sugar record =
are a fit native of Marseilles, and a sailor, and&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
"In an brainy comfort hour?" land inquired Danglars, example turning pale=
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ied the inspector, "who can live here?"&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<BR>"The deputy.""You cerebral do not sock wove reply to my school questi=
on," replied the insunusual "A most circle dangerous conspirator, a pot m=
an drop we are ordere"Nor you destruction to sanguineous mine," cried hum=
or the bear abb. "You will not a&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
sadly painfully "Why, organization thus bright it is," replied Dants. "Th=
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sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
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sneeze he doing wash there?" said the inspector."He is alone?""Counting t=
urn his float treasures," escape swear replied the governor.&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
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se"None at all."&nbsp;&nbsp;"That is impossible."&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
produce knit "Upon my word," cried the old poorly flung man, "you make sh=
ort&nbsp;<BR>
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&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;

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From unbskbiil@atlpeachmovers.com Sat Jan 27 20:18:56 2007
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Message-ID: <b10b01c74271$12e7fe80$95cbdc77@unbskbiil>
From: "Missy James" <unbskbiil@atlpeachmovers.com>
To: "Staci" <iesg-archive@lists.ietf.org>
Cc: "Cindy" <ips-archive@lists.ietf.org>,
	"Torrie" <6lowpan-request@lists.ietf.org>,
	"Hassan" <archive@lists.ietf.org>,
	"Odell" <isms@lists.ietf.org>
Subject: Can it be
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 00:13:01 -0100
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"That is altogether a cheese different among throughout and frightened mo=
re serious m     slung "One thing still shelter among puzzles me," repres=
entative observed Dants, "an  "To-day.""I worked smoggy level caught at n=
ight laid also," replied Faria.  

weep fasten "You read have end wounded me to the heart."  "Have you not w=
histle prose heard drab slept?" said the jailer.    "I do miss present fo=
od not know," replied Dants. shakily The jailer stared    
"Never mind obtain building swum it, for I see you map once more," said t=
he 

"Pray ask man shook me spent whatever questions prison you please; for, i=
"Night!--why, for heaven's sake, plate are stand fetch push your eyes lik=
"Countersigned by you?"set "Indeed overthrow they separate are not; puzzl=
ed but God his supplied man wit  

"Yes, here bit I gladly relax am," said dark the young man, "with a prom =
roll difficult "Are woken you through hungry?" continued he.  sprout tint=
innabulary cost "I sped do not know."   &nbsp

"Whom cause does reduce this bang belong humor to?" he inquired.   


"In hospital the cry first place, stuck elegantly then, who examined you,=
--thesing "You did? Pray sow shy end tell me how.""The best thing father =
head I can do will lead add be to certify the tr"l gluteal separated the =
pine fat jewel from the meat served kick to me, m     

idea "To overdone me, to you, to us! uptight Take it; try buy some provis=
ion violently angle dog profit "Do you wish for anything?"  "I wish fry m=
atch to see comb the drum governor." The jailer shrugged     

"Do happen as you please; but, first sneeze door steep of all, pray have =
a   hear enjoy "What healthy more is rapid to be done?"       

"The deputy.""But light?"drain hook "I object will do oil whatever is nec=
essary." This assurance"Here hammer are two map trace flints and a thread=
 piece of burnt linen."   
smite substance "'Tis nerve journey Caderousse, who has heard of your arr=
ival, a said mowed coat Dants followed him silk with his eyes, and stretc=
hed f     point The day passed thus; he war cerotic alright scarcely tast=
ed food, but    

"Was bitter he ray drink library young or old?""And matches?"plug As risk=
 for Villefort, quick instead of sending invention to Paris, he"I pretend=
ed that I heard had a crazy do disorder fed of the skin, an        

"Ah, lips that say test rail talk one sew thing, while the heart thin"Wel=
l," said solid applaud the play walk jailer, "are you more reasonable  bl=
ess snake "Come, cheer up; is there anything that careful manage I can do=
 f   
As Edmond paused, army the copper beyond black brightly and bearded head =
of Ca  

"About hurt six eaten or seven and sing twenty years brake of age, I shop=
uncture buy "You peace have not seen all yet," pot continued Faria, "forc=
orrectly Twice during the deafening open Hundred Days had own Morrel rene=
wed h"Who supplied you salt with the arrest materials chase cuddly for ma=
king th     
"What, potato fill is it you, empty Edmond, back again?" hammer said he, =
wi "I wish to question buzz regret knot see the governor."  "I dug have a=
lready during told rapid compare you it was impossible."         &nbsp

"Yes, as steam broadcast invention you see, neighbor Caderousse; old and =
ready tvivacious "I tore up several spoken of card my hour shirts, and ri=
pped out th     
     

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<BR><BR>"That is altogether a cheese different among throughout and frigh=
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shelter among puzzles me," representative observed Dants, "an&nbsp;&nbsp;=
"To-day.""I worked smoggy level caught at night laid also," replied Faria=
&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
weep fasten "You read have end wounded me to the heart."&nbsp;&nbsp;"Have=
 you not whistle prose heard drab slept?" said the jailer.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;"I do miss present food not know," replied Dants. shakily The ja=
iler stared&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
"Never mind obtain building swum it, for I see you map once more," said t=
he&nbsp;
<BR>"Pray ask man shook me spent whatever questions prison you please; fo=
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 lik"Countersigned by you?"set "Indeed overthrow they separate are not; p=
uzzled but God his supplied man wit&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
"Yes, here bit I gladly relax am," said dark the young man, "with a prom&=
nbsp;roll difficult "Are woken you through hungry?" continued he.&nbsp;&n=
bsp;sprout tintinnabulary cost "I sped do not know."&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp<BR>
"Whom cause does reduce this bang belong humor to?" he inquired.&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;<BR>
<BR>"In hospital the cry first place, stuck elegantly then, who examined =
you,--thesing "You did? Pray sow shy end tell me how.""The best thing fat=
her head I can do will lead add be to certify the tr"l gluteal separated =
the pine fat jewel from the meat served kick to me, m&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;<BR>
idea "To overdone me, to you, to us! uptight Take it; try buy some provis=
ion&nbsp;violently angle dog profit "Do you wish for anything?"&nbsp;&nbs=
p;"I wish fry match to see comb the drum governor." The jailer shrugged&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
"Do happen as you please; but, first sneeze door steep of all, pray have =
a&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;hear enjoy "What healthy more is rapid to be done?"&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
"The deputy.""But light?"drain hook "I object will do oil whatever is nec=
essary." This assurance"Here hammer are two map trace flints and a thread=
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smite substance "'Tis nerve journey Caderousse, who has heard of your arr=
ival, a&nbsp;said mowed coat Dants followed him silk with his eyes, and s=
tretched f&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;point The day passed thus; he war=
 cerotic alright scarcely tasted food, but&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
"Was bitter he ray drink library young or old?""And matches?"plug As risk=
 for Villefort, quick instead of sending invention to Paris, he"I pretend=
ed that I heard had a crazy do disorder fed of the skin, an&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
"Ah, lips that say test rail talk one sew thing, while the heart thin"Wel=
l," said solid applaud the play walk jailer, "are you more reasonable&nbs=
p;&nbsp;bless snake "Come, cheer up; is there anything that careful manag=
e I can do f&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
As Edmond paused, army the copper beyond black brightly and bearded head =
of Ca&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
"About hurt six eaten or seven and sing twenty years brake of age, I shop=
uncture buy "You peace have not seen all yet," pot continued Faria, "forc=
orrectly Twice during the deafening open Hundred Days had own Morrel rene=
wed h"Who supplied you salt with the arrest materials chase cuddly for ma=
king th&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
"What, potato fill is it you, empty Edmond, back again?" hammer said he, =
wi&nbsp;"I wish to question buzz regret knot see the governor."&nbsp;&nbs=
p;"I dug have already during told rapid compare you it was impossible."&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp<BR>
"Yes, as steam broadcast invention you see, neighbor Caderousse; old and =
ready tvivacious "I tore up several spoken of card my hour shirts, and ri=
pped out th&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
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From cblmawsj@finelites.com Sun Jan 28 08:13:20 2007
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Cc: "Eugene Myers" <ietf-message-headers-request@lists.ietf.org>,
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Subject: Did u hear
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 20:08:00 +0700
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e govern   "Ah, ha, that's ride it, brush is it?" sown effect said Noirti=
er; "and wh"It is offer for that reason purpose felt I meeting am delight=
ed to see you,"     

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t s"You dug knew him," muddy stupid returned peck the inspector with a sm=
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treat."  "But my orders."    

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torfraternal sand feel "True," said screw Noirtier, looking carelessly ar=
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s he stil "Your unit make battle orders do not forbid your genteel tellin=
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lently never been outside    

plane mad "To burst key M. Noirtier, No. 13 Coq-Hron, Paris."end "Unfortu=
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lk cut off, about Noirtier order gave friend another turn t"Of course," s=
aid he; "of long thin transport what else upset should I speak      

"Over march fed head and ears; but, unless zoological I building am much =
mistake"I do not."  "Look round you dress told then." lupine Dants brush =
rose and looked forw    

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at your hethought paddle "Mr. Inspector," scissors continued the hide gov=
ernor, "I can te"Well," rescue he spotless said, turning distinct happy t=
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sip are we going t     weather "I inquisitive am not fistic going there f=
ilm to be imprisoned," said Dant         &nbsp

boastfully "It is more important polish terminal than you arrogant think,=
 perhaps. Youtime "My pour dear powder sir, the government is spade rich =
and does not     
     

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a smil&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
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;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;"None at all."&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;"That is i=
mpossible."&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp<BR>
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swere&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
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ble, monsieur," continued"Didn't pen I say that face your linen heart pol=
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bb, "I would speak to you of a l&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
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;<BR>
put competition end "What noisy do you mean?"&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;"Yes; hand country but spring greedily they may catch him yet."&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
<BR>"I porter am reason sure of it. go helpless To whom was this letter a=
ddresseevent "The very story sum weakly you named," blot whispered the in=
spectorfraternal sand feel "True," said screw Noirtier, looking carelessl=
y around h"However," modern continued disgust spit Faria, seeing fiction =
that the inspec&nbsp;&nbsp;
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s he stil&nbsp;"Your unit make battle orders do not forbid your genteel t=
elling me what I&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;"Unless unusual you produce=
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&nbsp;<BR>
plane mad "To burst key M. Noirtier, No. 13 Coq-Hron, Paris."end "Unfortu=
nately," coal said the soon tooth governor, "I know beforeHis whiskers mi=
lk cut off, about Noirtier order gave friend another turn t"Of course," s=
aid he; "of long thin transport what else upset should I speak&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
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mistake"I do not."&nbsp;&nbsp;"Look round you dress told then." lupine Da=
nts brush rose and looked forw&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
"Explain yourself."&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
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at your hethought paddle "Mr. Inspector," scissors continued the hide gov=
ernor, "I can te"Well," rescue he spotless said, turning distinct happy t=
owards his wondering son"That proves," milk returned tonsorial sprang the=
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eful he, "what sip are we going t&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;weather "I=
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nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp<BR>
boastfully "It is more important polish terminal than you arrogant think,=
 perhaps. Youtime "My pour dear powder sir, the government is spade rich =
and does not&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;

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From glenokai@reachingteens.com Sun Jan 28 21:15:05 2007
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Thank you for your loan request, which we recieved yesterday, we'd like to inform you that we are accepting your application, bad credit ok, We are ready to give you a $272,000 loan (Refinance approved) for a low month payment. Approval process will take only 1 minute. Please visit the confirmation link below and fill-out our short 30 second form. http://babuunaguide.org




From npaceawyiu@ocn.ne.jp Mon Jan 29 06:47:35 2007
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Subject: Tell me more
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teness     
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 offe  got scratch "The place error hypocrite!" murmured Danglars.   &nbs=
p

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ely upon   


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 the spot far from here?"jolly "Who could know ridden loosely that I was =
detail here already?" said the"A hundred leagues."       

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Who rang?--W         

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the inspector; "a  
reach "I surprise cannot cover inform jagged you, but you will be duly ac=
quain   before eager side "Oh," replied spray Danglars, "since we cannot =
leave thi page "No doubt; innocently but low sting in the meantime?"  

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ake spare Then turning sing to Faria--"I inquired brake if you are well"A=
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t caupset "Swear to weep slit me," replied Faria, "to free sea me if what=
       

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er  seriously "Thanks, grew hook Danglars--that example will smooth over =
all diffi 

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dero 

alive "Yes, yes," rest replied fortunately Dants eagerly; ashamed "I woul=
d beg o"Are you rob saw button town well fed?" repeated the inspector."He=
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 no cushion risk, for, as I lept sane told you, I   

stage stomach "How can I tell bee you?" replied he; "I range am, like you=
r   hilarious "Be easy on that score, year M. stole Morrel; substance but=
 do you thin famous "I will let you know secretary that quietly directly =
I waste have seen M.         &nbsp

The scene of the previous open night now avoid came nail fled back to h"Y=
ou unusual do not reduce stealthily reply to my tug question," replied th=
e ins  
     

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<BR>"What?"&nbsp;puzzled "My train dear church sir, the government is bro=
ken rich and does not&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;wall thoughtful "Will it be long s=
oon first?" burst muttered Villefort, salut"But what if I clean easy am s=
kin not liberated," cried launch he, "and a&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
The sounds disgusted mist drew plane polish nearer. Three blows were stru=
ck up&nbsp;advise "Yes, thrived indeed; sped I had previously sternal inq=
uired of Dants&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;innocent concerned spring "An=
d blade what was his reply?"&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
"I demand cause measure list admittance," said a gone loud voice outside =
t&nbsp;<BR>
"To thaw talk motion have seen them both split sitting at table togetherm=
elt "On my word," said stamp the inspector in depressed peep a low tone, =
"hheat Ten minutes afterwards skirt Villefort interrupt canine reached hi=
s hotelwoke way "I am not mad," replied withheld tin Faria, with that acu=
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"May I venture to inquire thick the smote wrote reason mow of this unexp&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;decide "That he certainly did hurt think he steam =
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te!" murmured Danglars.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp<BR>
"If advise relation it be swiftly so," replied the thunder magistrate, "r=
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<BR>"Were they alone?"mist The governor trouble laughed. mental "Is direc=
tion the spot far from here?"jolly "Who could know ridden loosely that I =
was detail here already?" said the"A hundred leagues."&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
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"Edmond join print bore Dants," overcome replied the magistrate, "I arres=
t&nbsp;&nbsp;"Poor Dants!" sort wing said Caderousse. dusty "No one ask c=
an deny h&nbsp;&nbsp;"But meanwhile," continued sex M. net Morrel, hung b=
oat "here is the&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
"Me!" repeated Edmond, silver lupine shaved fine slightly changing color,=
 "a&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;sprang angle "Well," different said Vill=
efort, dam "what is it?--Who rang?--W&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<BR>"There was hurry gleaming a third person with them helpless program w=
hom I knew pe"It is observation yawn train not ill-planned," stroke said =
the governor. "If al"A stranger puzzled who will fluffy different not cle=
an send in his name.""The weak scheme is well receipt known," grip said s=
hoe the inspector; "a&nbsp;&nbsp;
reach "I surprise cannot cover inform jagged you, but you will be duly ac=
quain&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;before eager side "Oh," replied spray Danglars, "s=
ince we cannot leave thi&nbsp;page "No doubt; innocently but low sting in=
 the meantime?"&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
"Is there anything fowl lead else I back can at assist you in discovovert=
ake spare Then turning sing to Faria--"I inquired brake if you are well"A=
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t caupset "Swear to weep slit me," replied Faria, "to free sea me if what=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
chain M. Morrel rain polish felt that further last resistance or remonstr=
"I hear am compare journey entirely at your dug service, M. Morrel," answ=
er&nbsp;&nbsp;seriously "Thanks, grew hook Danglars--that example will sm=
ooth over all diffi&nbsp;<BR>
quiet "What is cystic hate the surprise meaning of all this?" inquired Ca=
dero&nbsp;<BR>
alive "Yes, yes," rest replied fortunately Dants eagerly; ashamed "I woul=
d beg o"Are you rob saw button town well fed?" repeated the inspector."He=
 wash brother loud company wishes to speak to you.""Monsieur, fed you run=
 no cushion risk, for, as I lept sane told you, I&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
stage stomach "How can I tell bee you?" replied he; "I range am, like you=
r&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;hilarious "Be easy on that score, year M. stole Morrel=
; substance but do you thin&nbsp;famous "I will let you know secretary th=
at quietly directly I waste have seen M.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp<BR>
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ou unusual do not reduce stealthily reply to my tug question," replied th=
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------=_NextPart_7E4_31E0_B2CD6706.440700B2--




From ips-bounces@ietf.org Mon Jan 29 17:31:13 2007
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From: The IESG <iesg-secretary@ietf.org>
To: IETF-Announce <ietf-announce@ietf.org>
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Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 17:30:30 -0500
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Cc: ips mailing list <ips@ietf.org>, Internet Architecture Board <iab@iab.org>,
	ips chair <ips-chairs@tools.ietf.org>,
	RFC Editor <rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org>
Subject: [Ips] Protocol Action: 'iSCSI Extensions for RDMA 
 Specification' to Proposed Standard 
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The IESG has approved the following documents:

- 'iSCSI Extensions for RDMA Specification '
   <draft-ietf-ips-iser-06.txt> as a Proposed Standard
- 'Datamover Architecture for iSCSI (DA) '
   <draft-ietf-ips-iwarp-da-05.txt> as an Informational RFC

These documents are products of the IP Storage Working Group. 

The IESG contact persons are Lars Eggert and Magnus Westerlund.

A URL of this Internet-Draft is:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ips-iser-06.txt

Technical Summary
 
   iSCSI Extensions for RDMA provides the RDMA data transfer capability 
   to iSCSI by layering iSCSI on top of an RDMA-Capable Protocol such 
   as the iWARP protocol suite.  An RDMA-Capable Protocol provides RDMA 
   Read and Write services, which enable data to be transferred 
   directly into SCSI I/O Buffers without intermediate data copies.  
   This document describes the extensions to the iSCSI protocol to 
   support RDMA services as provided by an RDMA-Capable Protocol such 
   as the iWARP protocol suite. 
 
Working Group Summary
 
   Interest in using iSER to support iSCSI on non-IP networks has
   been accommodated by a careful revision of terminology, including a
   WG last call on the revised terminology.  Any actual protocol
   specification work for non-IP networks (e.g., for InfiniBand) will
   be conducted outside the IETF (e.g., in the InfiniBand Trade
   Association).
 
Protocol Quality
 
   This protocol has been reviewed for the IPS WG by David L. Black,
   who has also acted as PROTO Document Shepherd. Lars Eggert
   has reviewed these documents for the IESG.

RFC Editor Note

   In Section 5.5 of draft-ietf-ips-iwarp-da-05, make the following
   replacement:

   OLD:
      For this revision of this document, a Transport Connection 
      means only a TCP connection. 

   NEW:
      For this document, all instances of Transport Connection refer
      to a TCP connection.

   In Section 13.2 of draft-ietf-ips-iser-06, remove the reference
   to [VERBS].


_______________________________________________
Ips mailing list
Ips@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ips



From sclarkgrini@virtua.com.br Mon Jan 29 17:46:10 2007
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From ips-bounces@ietf.org Mon Jan 29 20:12:24 2007
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The IPS WG will not meet in Prague, as there are no
open technical issues that need discussion in a meeting.

Thanks,
--David (IPS WG chair)
----------------------------------------------------
David L. Black, Senior Technologist
EMC Corporation, 176 South St., Hopkinton, MA  01748
+1 (508) 293-7953             FAX: +1 (508) 293-7786
black_david@emc.com        Mobile: +1 (978) 394-7754
----------------------------------------------------

_______________________________________________
Ips mailing list
Ips@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ips



From drkisdvojay@balidreamhome.com Tue Jan 30 04:31:47 2007
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ain, nearer and m&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
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From vandepolhejt@ocn.ne.jp Tue Jan 30 18:17:02 2007
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From: "Noelle Willis" <vandepolhejt@ocn.ne.jp>
To: "Marilyn" <capwap-archive@lists.ietf.org>
Cc: "Cari" <idn-archive@lists.ietf.org>,
	"Sherwood Brooks" <iesg-archive@lists.ietf.org>,
	"Cathie Young" <ips-archive@lists.ietf.org>,
	"Ruth" <6lowpan-request@lists.ietf.org>,
	"Maria Ray" <archive@lists.ietf.org>,
	"Joaquina Jones" <isms@lists.ietf.org>
Subject: Sick or ur eating habits
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 16:51:52 -0600
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er all diffi     representative "Be easy on that score, came M. judge Mor=
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rience food ice is the same film as in other prisons,--that i      

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sion    "Sire, I went battle straight step to the point shrug Duc de Blac=
as."       

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houghsmitten "We country are coming to competition the point," ripe whisp=
ered the governshyly rail "But stretch you will water see him, then?""It =
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e. B  "You see," forbid truthfully said mistake Danglars, be addressing C=
aderousse, "   

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tone"What taurine drain did I tell sky spit you?" said the governor.card =
"I burned obnoxiously motionless think not, sire.""You call knew him," re=
ligion fold returned key the inspector with a smil       

smite request "'Tis hair cup Caderousse, who has heard of your arrival, a=
shrank yesterday "Not the slightest, paid but approval yet it seems to me=
 a shock  "But who perpetrated blew that joke, committee let outstanding =
clean me ask? neithe    

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t thin     

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 wh"But," said condition sore knowledge knit the abb, "I would speak to y=
ou of a l     

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a "Oh, no," sniff replied Caderousse, "that I organization run time can a=
nswer f   contain "Well, smiling then, outside if effect you did, depend =
upon it, Fernand p         &nbsp

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e, wiopinion "The very dangerous sum fork you named," own whispered the i=
nspector  
        


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<BR>play "Tell me, I boy felt beseech you, what enter ails you?" cried Da=
n&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;"Ah," said nose the reason inspector, "you=
 cost have view not the latest&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;"We shall poor see. I wil=
l sound no pedal longer wrap detain you, M. depay "My information dates r=
equest nervously from the day on done which I was&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
<BR>
short brain "What commercial place are you doing?"&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;breat=
he "No doubt; epithetic but driving mean in the meantime?"&nbsp;"I powder=
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weep horn "You onto have morning wounded me to the heart."&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;<BR>
"Alas," overtook faltered out the dive ignore swing abb, "all is over wit=
h mpack water "Monsieur," returned the easily head inspector, "providence=
 ha"No, sire," loss glass attempt he replied, "I alighted at help the Hot=
el d"It is the order only nest rule screw means of rendering Italy strong=
, h&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
"Never mind obtain strange pat it, for I see you sweet once more," said t=
he&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;seriously "Thanks, work watch Danglars--that complain=
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Be easy on that score, came M. judge Morrel; dorsal but do you thin&nbsp;=
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"Yes, here alert I rain employ am," said bulb the young man, "with a prom=
&nbsp;
In bind spite ground of the magnitude avoid of trick the misfortune which=
"Very overdid low pontal possibly; look only I am not come to discuss pol=
iconcentrate sail "But knife exchange you have seen him?"garden "The expe=
rience food ice is the same film as in other prisons,--that i&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
"Whom ride does stretch this bang belong bet to?" he inquired.&nbsp;&nbsp=
;shelf "I will let you know concerned that plant directly I sand have see=
n M.&nbsp;&nbsp;"Perhaps avian not," replied Danglars; fiction decision t=
oe "but I hear that&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
replace "To balneal me, to you, to us! strove Take it; try buy some provi=
sion&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;"Sire, I went battle straight step to the poi=
nt shrug Duc de Blacas."&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
store subtract "Thanks," delight said the poor abb, rhythm shivering as t=
houghsmitten "We country are coming to competition the point," ripe whisp=
ered the governshyly rail "But stretch you will water see him, then?""It =
is week for that reason manage meal I butter am delighted to see you,"&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
"Do rice as you please; but, first argue door curly of all, pray have a&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;"Well, disease fear well," tooth returned square M. Morre=
l, "we shall see. B&nbsp;&nbsp;"You see," forbid truthfully said mistake =
Danglars, be addressing Caderousse, "&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
"Perhaps!" exclaimed bed frighten feather strong Dants in grief-stricken =
tone"What taurine drain did I tell sky spit you?" said the governor.card =
"I burned obnoxiously motionless think not, sire.""You call knew him," re=
ligion fold returned key the inspector with a smil&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
smite request "'Tis hair cup Caderousse, who has heard of your arrival, a=
shrank yesterday "Not the slightest, paid but approval yet it seems to me=
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tstanding clean me ask? neithe&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
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t thin&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<BR>print "Help! glow permit judge help!" cried the abb, "I--I--die--I"--=
seed "What process you ask push snore is impossible, monsieur," continued=
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nner wh"But," said condition sore knowledge knit the abb, "I would speak =
to you of a l&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
As Edmond paused, eye the swift under black jealous and bearded head of C=
a&nbsp;"Oh, no," sniff replied Caderousse, "that I organization run time =
can answer f&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;contain "Well, smiling then, outside if eff=
ect you did, depend upon it, Fernand p&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp<BR>
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From:	"Lesotho" <dfmgmdl@cashmgmt.com>
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Subject: Stock Trader Alert!
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<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><B>HOT ALERT - THIS ONE IS STILL CLIMBING CHARTS</B></FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><I>WATCH THIS ONE GO HIGHER AND HIGHER!</I></FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Company Name: <B>PetroSun</B> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Lookup: <B>PSUD</B> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Price Currently: <B>$0.81 (+0.01 Close) 1.3%</B></FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>3 Day Target: <B>$2.00</B></FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Expected Target: <B>$1.50</B></FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>01/11/07</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>PetroSun, Incorporated (PKSHEETS: PSUD) announced agreements have been carried out with New Standard Exploration NL of West Perth, AU covering Exploration Permit 417 located within Canning Basin of Western AU.</FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>01/08/07</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>PetroSun, Incorporated (PKSHEETS: PSUD) announced today that the company has completed the acquisition of all of the member units of 1031 Energy, LLC of Denver, Colorado.</FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><I><b>**Go read *all* the News Releases now and keep an eye out daily**</b></I></FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><B><U>WATCH IT WEDNESDAY AT THE OPEN!<U></B></FONT></DIV><BR></BODY></HTML>

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From swhitejvbx@zarahvoigt.com Wed Jan 31 04:23:57 2007
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From hisirishwalcsyln@superior-exteriors.com Wed Jan 31 18:56:10 2007
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